# A few questions, turkey necks, etc.



## emric (Oct 24, 2011)

I'm still in the process of researching, but will be making the switch to Raw soon. Bought myself a nice chest freezer from Craigslist! 

I read the link to Getting Started. It says start with chicken backs for the first few days, then alternate meals with chicken quarters. So does that mean breakfast is a back, then dinner is a quarter? For how long?
What is the main difference between chicken frames and backs? I'm just not sure what to start with in the beginning. I've heard of people that feed chicken backs every AM, and dont have a problem.

I have a 70 lb mixed breed dog, so I will be feeding approx 1.3lbs a day, give or take. I have access to cheap chicken frames and backs. 40lb of chicken backs for $16, I think that's pretty good.
He will only be eating a little over 1 lb a day, but many people seem to say feed as big of a meal as I can, but if 1 chicken quarter is roughly 1lb each, that's not a very big piece of meat to feed for brkfst, or dinner. 

Some people say that feeding turkey necks are not good, as they can cause choking. 
What is the difference between hen turkey necks, and tom turkey necks. Is there that much of a difference? I have access to either. I can also get skinless duck necks. 

Are hearts considered a meat part of the meal? If I am feeding a bonier meal, could I add a little heart to make up the difference?


I appreciate any advice!


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## Tobi (Mar 18, 2011)

:welcome: to the forum :smile:

it depends on how often you're feeding, if you feed twice a day you can do a back in the morning, and a quarter or most of a quarter at night if you like, I started with just quarters as i didn't have access to backs, and we just fed once per day. Feeding once per day will allow you to feed larger meals and increase the chances of your dog enjoying his meal :tongue:
A chicken frame is the chicken with no meat on it, so it would be the ribs, breast bone, and back, it's just more. 
i would start with the backs, and quarters. you would feed strictly chicken for about 3 weeks, or until your dog is showing signs that they are doing well digesting it (dusty poops) and in that case you will move forward with proteins such as turkey or pork.

Turkey necks are great, we feed them pretty regularly, a hen neck is much smaller, about half of the size of a tom neck. Duck is great too, but it will be more rich than turkey or chicken so you might want to get it if you can get it cheap and just save it until your pup is getting different protiens, about 6 weeks down the road. 

Hearts are more rich, and are considered a muscle meat, you could if your dog is having a hard time pooping (dusty poops). it's likely better to just wait on the hearts though until your pup is transitioned a bit more.


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## shellbell (Sep 24, 2011)

I've only been feeding raw about five weeks, but here is what I know so far...

I started the boys with nothing but chicken for the first two weeks. I don't have access to chicken backs where I live, so I gave them chicken quarters. They did fine with this. Mine are both around 50 lbs. For Cabo I gave a bit more boneless chicken to in the beginning than I did to Tux, alternating with chicken quarters. For Tux, he got straight chicken quarters as he had a bit of diarrhea in week one so I figured he needed the extra bone. 

Definitely get the tom turkey necks. This is what I got the first time I ordered, and they are huge. Should be no risk of choking from them. The second time I ordered, I didn't specify what I wanted and got young hen necks. They are about half the size. I will probably still feed them as long as mine don't seem like they will have a choking risk from them, but next time I'm going to be sure to specify that I want the tom necks. 

Hearts are considered meat, a muscle and not an organ. I would not feed any heart for awhile though if you are just starting out as it is very rich. And when you do intro it, definitely do so with bone.


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## Love my lab (Dec 9, 2010)

I am no pro at this by far but I am pretty comfortable feeding raw and I can only answer to what I know has worked for me and my dog.

We started w/ just chicken backs for the 1st wk.....1 in the am 1 in the pm She was 78lbs when I started this. At the time I gave her 2lbs a day. (my math was a tad off) Keep in mind each dog varies w/ their % per day, in the beginning less is best....I obviously didn't know I was figuring wrong...lol...my dog did not mind.

2nd week I did back in the am, leg quater in the pm.
3rd week added turkey neck...alternated that w/ quaters and backs. Each new protien I did for 1 week along w/ previous protiens. Organs didnt get added in until later on...around 3 months in or so I think. But I never took what pieces were off on the backs so she got them from the start only in little pieces.


Hearts are muscle meat not organ so can be fed as a meal. They are rich so when starting your dog on them it is best to slowly add them into your muscle meat mix and then work up to a full meal if your dog can handle it ok. Some can't, mine had no issues w/ full meals of heart. Sample meal for a week to kind of giving you and idea how I feed....
sunday- am meal -chicken necks,ground turkey,small can sardines, chicken liver
pm meal- pork tounge
monday- am meal- chicken necks,ground turkey
pm meal- chicken breast, beef liver
tuesday- am meal- chicken neck,beef roast,egg
pm meal- venison meat, venison liver
wednesday- am meal-turkey neck
pm meal- pork tounge,beef kidney
thursday- am meal-chicken necks,chicken breast, egg w/shell
pm meal- pork heart, venison lung
friday-am meal- turkey neck
pm meal- boneless pork rib, chicken liver
saturday- am meal-chicken necks, ground beef,pork kidney
pm meal- pork tounge

she also gets rabbit, pork ribs, lamb heart & tounge, salmon, beef heart&tounge,chicken leg quaters,chicken hearts&gizzards and prob. something I forgot to mention. Once you are in for a while that is when the rotations can vary and over all that is the goal as varitey is what gives the best nutrition.

In the beginning you will want more bone heavy meals because in the early transition some dogs can have diarrhea...my dog had no issues in her transtional period...thankgoodness  But if the poops do become runny...add more bone..if they become dry and crumbly(they will if it is too much bone) you will want to add some boneless meat of whatever protien your starting with. For the turkey necks being a hazzard...for my dog we have never had any issues. I feed them whole. They are large and I am not sure if they are hens or toms. Duck necks are good I have heard....I have not fed them.

I hope this helps you a little. I know this is a great forum with alot of very helpful people and I am sure they will chime in and give you more guidence. Good Luck, your dog will be very happy.


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## emric (Oct 24, 2011)

Thank you everyone for your responses! They were all VERY helpful! Where do you mainly get your boneless meals? The grocery store seems to be pretty pricy, even with sales. I got 4 lbs of chicken leg quarters for $1.19 a pound..that's pretty costly. I keep hearing of people paying .49cents a lb. 
When is a good time to add is turkey necks? Would that count as 1 meal? 

Thanks!


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## shellbell (Sep 24, 2011)

I agree that around here, the boneless stuff seems to be more expensive. My grocery store sells "value packs" of meat...what they offer varies from day to day. I can get boneless chicken for around $1.29/lb with this. That is still more expensive than I would like though...I'm not one of those people who has a supplier or anything where I can order in bulk for cheap. I rely on grocery store sales. Now that mine can eat pork, I found pork butt for $.99/lb on sale...I cut out the small piece of bone that is in each piece (I bought it sliced into steaks). 

Also scored about 35 lbs of boneless deer meat from my uncle, what he was getting rid of from last year. But I know it did suck for me the first couple weeks when I was really limited to just feeding turkey or chicken, b/c it was a struggle to find anything boneless for cheap. Cabo was doing fine with the bone heavy stuff, but Tux was getting dry, crumbly poops, so I had to go buy him some boneless chicken. Once you are able to feed more of a variety, it does get easier to find cheaper things, since you can pick and choose more. 

I added in turkey necks at week three. I had the big adult tom ones, and counted one of those as one meal.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

emric said:


> Thank you everyone for your responses! They were all VERY helpful! Where do you mainly get your boneless meals?


Hello and welcome to the forum! 

Boneless meals can be whatever meat you'd like without bone. Dogs typically do better on mostly red meats, although I don't recommend adding red meat in until week 3-4 of the transition. 

Beef heart is an excellent source of boneless red meat that is very rich and typically pretty cost efficient if you can buy it in bulk. I would contact meat wholesale distributors or restaurant suppliers in your area to get prices for bulk. Tell them that you feed your dog a raw diet and would like to buy cases of meat (this is where that chest freezer you got comes in handy!). Heart meats are NOT considered organs nutritionally, so they do not count towards organ in the diet. 

Pork roasts of various kinds are usually pretty cheap as well. 



> The grocery store seems to be pretty pricy, even with sales. I got 4 lbs of chicken leg quarters for $1.19 a pound..that's pretty costly. I keep hearing of people paying .49cents a lb.


Walmart is usually a good place to find chicken quarters for $.65 per pound or less. We have become good friends with the meat manager at our local store and she gives us a good deal on them. Its always good to go and speak to people in person! You can also get these from distributors in bulk cases for cheap too. 



> When is a good time to add is turkey necks? Would that count as 1 meal?


I'd say after the first week of consistent normal stools on JUST chicken. The first week (or a few) of the transition you might see some loose stool, so this time doesn't count. It all depends on how your dog adjusts to raw, most dogs do great and others have a bit of a harder time. Not until you see normal stools for a week, don't add anything else in. Turkey necks are what I suggest you add in at this time. Depending on the size of the necks you get will determine if one neck equals a meal. The turkey necks I've gotten range in weight from ~.5-2 pounds a piece. So one turkey neck might be a whole day's worth of food, or just one meals worth. I don't suggest getting smaller turkey necks as dogs have been known to swallow them whole and "choke" on them. The bigger the better so your dog has to chew and crunch it a bit first. 

Hope this helps and I'm glad you're making the switch! You'll never look back :thumb:


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

For us boneless meals are alot of heart (turkey heart, pork heart and beef heart),sheep lung, and beef trim when we can get it. We still feed chicken backs with heart and lung, love quarters we get cheap and turkey necks are a favorite. My sheltie adores duck necks - all my dogs do but she has a passion for them, LOL.


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## emric (Oct 24, 2011)

As I'm starting out for the first few weeks, will it be a bad thing if I feed a chicken back once a day. I'm deff going to contact wholesale suppliers, I can get almost anything from Oma's pride. 

So heart is pretty rich? When would you suggest I start adding it in?

Thanks for being so patient and answering my questions! I am part of another group on yahoo for rawfeeders, I no one seems to answer any questions!


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