# Can dogs age more rapidly due to poor quality food?



## Unosmom (May 3, 2009)

I know that it becomes evident after long term use, but what about relatively short term? 

Little background, I regularly pet-sat my neighbors 2 goldens probably the last 2 years until I moved away last year. I guess I was gone for little over a year and came back this summer. 

Honestly, I was quite shocked by their appearance, it looked like they both ages probably by 5 years while I was away. Their faces become whiter which often happens which aging goldens, their coats went from long, flowing and soft to curly and very coarse. They're both could stand to lose 6-8 lbs each and their teeth aren't great either. 
Before I left, I would often talk about the importance of nutrition with the owners and give them free samples of premium foods and coupons, I guess since I left they sorta fell off that bandwagon and now they dogs are eating dog chow (it was Totw before that). 

The kicker is that one dog is 4 years old and another is 2, they should not look that way and it breaks my heart. In comparison to them Uno looks like a pup, he's all muscle, soft shiny coat, clean teeth, etc not to mention they cannot keep up with him as he races around the yard wanting to play. 

I kinda want to have a bit of a chat with the owners, but I don't want to sound like a broken telephone at this point. Their pantry is stocked with beggin strips other junky treats that are loaded with preservatives, dyes and other crap. 
Not to mention, both of the dogs came from backyard breeders and I've already found couple lumps on their body which need to be looked at. 

It's a bit frustrating to me because I feel like they are significantly shortening their animals life span by feeding them junk. 

I'm going to pick up some more samples today of better quality affordable food since maybe Totw became too cost prohibitive to feed 2 large dogs. 

sorry, I got little of topic, what are your thoughts on this, have you had similar experience before?


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## kevin bradley (Aug 9, 2009)

Uno, the problem as I see it is that anything in this area is pretty anecdotal. I had a stray lab Mix live to almost 20 years old. We also had a Rottie live to around 14-15 years old. They both age Grocery store food and I think we moved them "up to" Pedigree for a few years. 

In my HEART, I believe better foods will give your Dog an improved chance at a longer life. I really do... I mean, how could this NOT be so? The challenge we face is that if we say this to others, they may go some research and find that there is little/if anything to back up what we are saying. Heck, John Stossel devoted a chapter in his book to refuting the use of premium Dog Food and how it was a complete waste of money... and he had a Vet from Cornell in there backing up his claim IIRC. 

Funny, I saw a couple at Wal Mart last night and(I hate saying this but) they appeared to be pretty sound financially--well dressed and well presented. They had a couple bags of Ole Roy in their cart. I know its wrong because I really have no idea where they are financially...they may be bankrupt attempting to run a rescue so shame on me I guess. But I did start thinking that they could really be doing better for their Dogs.


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## Kat (Jul 12, 2011)

Ah that sucks. I have a hard time keeping my mouth shut when I see someone I know feeding a crappy food to their dogs. Eugh those beggin treats are so bad, even the commercials bug me. 
I totally agree that better foods contribute to a longer, healthier life.


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## Kibblelady (Jul 13, 2012)

Unosmom said:


> I know that it becomes evident after long term use, but what about relatively short term?
> 
> Little background, I regularly pet-sat my neighbors 2 goldens probably the last 2 years until I moved away last year. I guess I was gone for little over a year and came back this summer.
> 
> ...



Yes Uno, I feel you are right. Lower quality foods like Dog Chow have the minimum in them and while they will support life, they do not support much else. Maybe try backing off a bit on your requirements and find something in between dog chow and TOTW that is more economically attractive to them. I know you have standards and I appreciate that however they probably do not understand any of this. Going with the economic thing may help you here. Explain how the low kcals and low protein and fat in dog chow makes them buy more and while the bags seem cheaper they are not because they have to feed more etc etc... showing the hard numbers of kcals can often help in a situation like this where you want to help, numbers are not opinion. Explaining briefly costs per feeding or per lb helps a lot in a problem like this. Foods to suggest? ( I know you may not totally care for them but they are *better* than dog chow for many reasons) Eagle Pack would be my number one to recommend as it is more economical and has great levels of nutrients. cheleted minerals and a long history to trust. Umm Verus, also made by Eagle by a different company is reasonable, or was, Regal if they have it in their area is a good choice, great manufacture and formulations but I like Eagle Pack better. ( Trying to look for suggestions and using this dogfoodanalysis site and ugh it stinks for this, you cannot really go over large numbers at once...too many foods listed in this and with this "rating" system it is beyond being able to find suggestions) Actually I know you will hate this but Iams would be something to try to get them to buy...it *is* better than what they are eating and the price may be attractive. The point is the dogs right? Not what you or I feel comfortable with? Pro Plan would honestly have an amazing good effect on their skin and coat ( breeders that show do not feed this to their dogs for no reason or out of ignorance)...it just does, it easy to find, cheaper than the "top" foods and again, would be better than Dog Chow.

I find with "people like this" it is easier to introduce them to something slightly more expensive after justifying the price and explaining the you will save money part (less cups per day, bag lasts longer) This is easier for them to grasp and understand than grain free, probiotocs, chicken by product vs chicken meal or just chicken....know what I mean? Many, once they take this step and see the results and improvements, seek out more info and even better diets. It is that first step that you need.

Just trying to help,


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## Kibblelady (Jul 13, 2012)

Oh, wanted to comment that yeah, my dogs get "Beggin' Strips" and Meaty Bones and other "junk" for treats, they are treats just like my guilty pleasure of Funyons lol In moderation and as treats I do not believe this is harmful. Heck I was healthy most of my life (well all until like 3 years ago...but these things aren't caused by diet) and I eat twinkies, cake, pie, soda, man I love McDonalds lol.... te point is to impress on people they are treats and not to overuse or over feed them  Dogs have guilty pleasures as well. My greatest treat for them is the freeze dried bits of beef or liver from Gimborn...pricy and expensive but they love it. The others are Beggin Strips and Meaty Bones.My DH is always bringing some junk home for them...I gave up arguing about it and realized a little doesn't hurt. JMO


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## Unosmom (May 3, 2009)

Yeah, I've had the conversation with them about calorie and protein in cheap food vs. better quality, maybe they forgot, not sure. It might have something to do with the price increase, Totw went from $43 for $52 in one year, thats a pretty big jump. 
The local feed store has few affordable options like nutrisource, which is $42 for 30 lbs for grain free. 
Forgot to mention, they smell awful, its like a mix of yeast and mold, so I'll be giving them a bath tomorrow and brush out their matted coats. 

In think in a lot of cases, most pet owners aren't as hyper vigilant to their pet health as people on this board. They tend to dismiss things like ear infections, smelly coat, weight gain, plaque buildup on teeth as a normal part of being a dog and getting older. I personally think it's a load of crap. Just because the dog is getting older, it's not an excuse to let this health got to hell. 



> Oh, wanted to comment that yeah, my dogs get "Beggin' Strips" and Meaty Bones and other "junk" for treats, they are treats just like my guilty pleasure of Funyons lol In moderation and as treats I do not believe this is harmful. Heck I was healthy most of my life (well all until like 3 years ago...but these things aren't caused by diet) and I eat twinkies, cake, pie, soda, man I love McDonalds lol.... te point is to impress on people they are treats and not to overuse or over feed them  Dogs have guilty pleasures as well. My greatest treat for them is the freeze dried bits of beef or liver from Gimborn...pricy and expensive but they love it. The others are Beggin Strips and Meaty Bones.My DH is always bringing some junk home for them...I gave up arguing about it and realized a little doesn't hurt. JMO


I have to respectfully disagree, take for example ingredient panel of beggin strips:

*Ground wheat, corn gluten meal, wheat flour, ground yellow corn, water, sugar, glycerin, meat, hydrogenated starch hydrolysate,soybean meal, bacon fat preserved with BHA, salt, sorbic acid (a preservative), artificial smoke flavor, calcium propionate (a preservative), glyceryl monostearate, phosphoric acid, choline chloride, added color (red 40, blue 1, yellow 5, yellow 6).*

aside from crappy ingredients like corn, its loaded with sugar (rotten teeth), BHA (carcinogenic preservative), other preservatives and dyes (linked to allergies among other things). 

If I had kids, I would never give them this crap, no exceptions with my animals. It may seem harmless at first, but what about a lifetime of eating this year after year? obviously the dog isn't going to drop dead from eating one junky treat, but considering how many animals are diagnosed with cancer among other chronic illnesses nowadays, it's hard to to question possible long term damage of feeding something like this. 

I like to give treats to my pets as well, but why compromise, there are tons of natural treats on the market today that you can buy without putting your pets life at risk.


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## BearMurphy (Feb 29, 2012)

it also sounds like they are not taking good care of them in general which contributes to their condition. I know a bully breed that's fed dog chow and the dog actually looks good. he has the whitest teeth I have ever seen, good skin and coat. sometimes it just comes down to genetics, exercise and maintenance of the dogs health and appearance. 

I do think that dogs that poorly bred dogs with obvious health conditions could benefit from a change in diet though. and you are right there is no good reason to feed your dog horrible sugary chemical filled treats because it's completely unnecessary. I think it's one of those things that make humans feel good but in reality dogs don't need treats, we just need some food to train with and there are a lot of better options out there.


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## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

I don't know what to think to be quite honest. Well, I do think that eating a healthier diet will benefit you greatly when you are older, as long as genetics don't play a part.
The two dogs up the road that were fed Pedigree and Ol Roy treats? Well, the Jack Russel dropped dead at 10, the chihuahua is 7, she was at death's door for 2 months at 5yo with AIHA and has now lived with it for 2 years. Yet, others, like Kev said, live to be 17. Goodness knows.
I just want to think that I'm giving Mol the absolute best chance at living a long and healthy life that I can. I just hope she has good genetics as well.
Oh, not eating anything made in China (dogs and people) will probably help in longevity as well.

Good on you Uno for taking care of those dogs, you're a good person.


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## shellbell (Sep 24, 2011)

I don’t agree with giving dogs “junk” treats like Beggin’ Strips or whatever other crappy junk treats are out there. Do I indulge in junk food on occasion? Yes. Do I give it to my dogs ever? No. The difference is I know that junky thinks like candy bars are out there and sometimes I crave them and give into that craving. My dogs don’t sit and crave things like Beggin’ Strips or Milk Bones the way that I crave people junk food. They think a taste of peanut butter or a bit of cheese or cooked egg that I am eating is a special treat. I will give them things like that on occasion but don’t see the point in giving them things like Beggin’ Strips. 

Honestly, I never understand why people sit and feel justified in giving their dogs junk by saying that they occassionally eat junk food so their dogs should too. Dogs don't know what junk food is and have no cravings for it.


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## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

Thats true, Mol has never had anything sweet. Offer her a sweet treat now and she will not eat it, even if it's the only thing she's had to eat all day. She doesn't miss what she's never had.


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## GoingPostal (Sep 5, 2011)

I think it depends on the dogs but most people that feed low quality food maybe don't put as much effort overall, their dogs maybe not as exercised, overweight, etc so it all adds up. We had a couple friends over yesterday and my oldest dog Jersey was running around, she's only 7 but they were completely amazed that she is that old and also thought she was super skinny. Even on kibble we've always gotten comments about how in shape and shiny they are because most dogs are not. My male looked like hell on the Pedigree he was fed before and just changing to a better food made all the difference but some dogs look alright on almost anything, too many people don't associate food with appearance/health too, I've met a lot of dogs that have that nasty stink that clings to your hands and their coats look awful, a diet change would do wonders but the owners don't care to spend the money. 

Nero when we first got him, his coat felt so horrible to touch









Nero on TOTW about a year later


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

kevin bradley said:


> Uno, the problem as I see it is that anything in this area is pretty anecdotal. I had a stray lab Mix live to almost 20 years old. We also had a Rottie live to around 14-15 years old. They both age Grocery store food and I think we moved them "up to" Pedigree for a few years.
> 
> In my HEART, I believe better foods will give your Dog an improved chance at a longer life. I really do... I mean, how could this NOT be so? The challenge we face is that if we say this to others, they may go some research and find that there is little/if anything to back up what we are saying. Heck, John Stossel devoted a chapter in his book to refuting the use of premium Dog Food and how it was a complete waste of money... and he had a Vet from Cornell in there backing up his claim IIRC.
> 
> *Funny, I saw a couple at Wal Mart last night and(I hate saying this but) they appeared to be pretty sound financially--well dressed and well presented. They had a couple bags of Ole Roy in their cart. I know its wrong because I really have no idea where they are financially...they may be bankrupt attempting to run a rescue so shame on me I guess. But I did start thinking that they could really be doing better for their Dogs.*



I do that all the time lol. Or it bugs me that my aunt feeds something that comes in multi-colored kibbles (Beneful is my guess) to her two maltese's, but they could *easily* afford something decent.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

GoingPostal said:


> I think it depends on the dogs but most people that feed low quality food maybe don't put as much effort overall, their dogs maybe not as exercised, overweight, etc so it all adds up. We had a couple friends over yesterday and my oldest dog Jersey was running around, she's only 7 but they were completely amazed that she is that old and also thought she was super skinny. Even on kibble we've always gotten comments about how in shape and shiny they are because most dogs are not. My male looked like hell on the Pedigree he was fed before and just changing to a better food made all the difference but some dogs look alright on almost anything, too many people don't associate food with appearance/health too, I've met a lot of dogs that have that nasty stink that clings to your hands and their coats look awful, a diet change would do wonders but the owners don't care to spend the money.
> 
> Nero when we first got him, his coat felt so horrible to touch
> 
> ...



I met a dog that was ENERGETIC, shiny, soft, thin and looked like a happy 2 year old dog at on Sunday at the feed store. He feeds at least something decent, maybe raw, since he was at this food store to buy food, as they only sell the "premium" foods. 

My friend and I asked how old the dog was and he is 10. I couldn't believe it. I can only hope my dogs look and feel that good at 10 also...


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## Tobi (Mar 18, 2011)

Just like in humans i do believe that a dog, cat, lion, wolf, penguin, whatever it may be.. is not fed an appropriate diet, conditions will deteriorate faster, and since we are in fact "terminal" from the day we are born, i believe that we are only quickening the process by feeding low quality foods to our pets, and ourselves.


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## Kibblelady (Jul 13, 2012)

Unosmom said:


> Yeah, I've had the conversation with them about calorie and protein in cheap food vs. better quality, maybe they forgot, not sure. It might have something to do with the price increase, Totw went from $43 for $52 in one year, thats a pretty big jump.
> The local feed store has few affordable options like nutrisource, which is $42 for 30 lbs for grain free.
> Forgot to mention, they smell awful, its like a mix of yeast and mold, so I'll be giving them a bath tomorrow and brush out their matted coats.
> 
> ...


Uno I agree with the first part of your post however not the latter. I did state moderation, not every day, day in day out..... I also stated what my main treat was, it is not Beggin' Strips lol As I have stated before I do not consider corn to be a crappy ingredient, I know you disagree, fine. My dogs have no allergies, one does have cancer you can see into that what you want but saying it was caused by Beggin' Strips is just convenient not even remotely factual.

My main point was to get these dogs on a better food, the treats follow the food once an owner gets on board with the better feeding philosophy. Many times people trying to help are just too passionate about it and you lose people in that as they do not understand the passion. (not referring to you in particular Uno)

Lol my kids eat some crap, sure they do...most kids do. My kids are healthy. It is the long term and amount of something that matters.

I am **NOT** putting my pet's lives at risk.... that's over the top Uno.

The sun causes cancer and water is significantly important in the formation of tumors....


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## Kibblelady (Jul 13, 2012)

BearMurphy said:


> it also sounds like they are not taking good care of them in general which contributes to their condition. I know a bully breed that's fed dog chow and the dog actually looks good. he has the whitest teeth I have ever seen, good skin and coat. sometimes it just comes down to genetics, exercise and maintenance of the dogs health and appearance.
> 
> I do think that dogs that poorly bred dogs with obvious health conditions could benefit from a change in diet though. and you are right there is no good reason to feed your dog horrible sugary chemical filled treats because it's completely unnecessary. I think it's one of those things that make humans feel good but in reality dogs don't need treats, we just need some food to train with and there are a lot of better options out there.



I totally agree! As I said my DH (who knows nothing at all about pet nutrition), uses treats to bond with our animals. He does not do this every day, nor every week and he likes giving them the GimBorn because it is like dog crack lol I am not going to be all over him for this guilty pleasure. It obviously did not harm Emma......

Bear, I totally agree about the poor breeding and genetics even in well bred animals. Nutrition cannot fix or prevent everything.....


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## Kibblelady (Jul 13, 2012)

shellbell said:


> I don’t agree with giving dogs “junk” treats like Beggin’ Strips or whatever other crappy junk treats are out there. Do I indulge in junk food on occasion? Yes. Do I give it to my dogs ever? No. The difference is I know that junky thinks like candy bars are out there and sometimes I crave them and give into that craving. My dogs don’t sit and crave things like Beggin’ Strips or Milk Bones the way that I crave people junk food. They think a taste of peanut butter or a bit of cheese or cooked egg that I am eating is a special treat. I will give them things like that on occasion but don’t see the point in giving them things like Beggin’ Strips.
> 
> Honestly, I never understand why people sit and feel justified in giving their dogs junk by saying that they occassionally eat junk food so their dogs should too. Dogs don't know what junk food is and have no cravings for it.


Read my recent post, I don't give them the "Strips" my DH does and I explained why...... people are being a bit over the top over my dogs being given a Beggin Strip don't you think?


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## Kibblelady (Jul 13, 2012)

meggels said:


> I met a dog that was ENERGETIC, shiny, soft, thin and looked like a happy 2 year old dog at on Sunday at the feed store. He feeds at least something decent, maybe raw, since he was at this food store to buy food, as they only sell the "premium" foods.
> 
> My friend and I asked how old the dog was and he is 10. I couldn't believe it. I can only hope my dogs look and feel that good at 10 also...


I get that disbelief with my dogs as well, all of them. Emma is 13 and looks 8 and Tobe in no way looked 8, he has aged quite a bit in the last month due to what his body is going through (other dog people will question me like I was lying about his age lol) My Dachies aren't that old yet so we shall see, just Charlie is 10 and he looks good, I did not have him his entire life though like the others. Years back I had a Sheltie I adopted from the shelter that was approximated at age 4, there is no way to tell but the amount of tarter on his back teeth that I broke off was no way formed in 4 years. Every time he went to the vet (usually a bite from something or him getting into some trouble he shouldn't have, it's a long story) the vet would question me about his age. At the time he was 9-12 (those years) and she (the cranky one lol) would look at me like I was nuts when I stated his age. I got the dog at a stated age of 4, had him for 10 years...he was at least 10 at the time for sure, he was older than that though, maybe 15 or more. She would look at his records to see if I knew what I was talking about lol Yeah, I think I know how old my dog is lady.... lol Joey passed at approx 13 (we had him that long) from cancer ( a pretty typical disease for a dog that old.) I miss him all the time even after all these years but my daughter and I always think its funny to ask people how old they think one of our dogs are...they are never close. Good nutrition is *very* important in this of course, note I did not say "feeding an expensive highly talked about food" that's the difference between many of you and myself, I am looking at this very differently. My nutritional knowledge was gained researching nutrition, physiology, chemistry and pet food manufacturing....not studying just "pet food" (honestly NO insult meant, I am not like that intentionally. I just do not know how else to word that.) I just look at all of this very differently. People are not "pleased" with the Beggin Strip treats but I am sure there is something you feed your dogs or do with them that I would think is equally as "dangerous" or would very much disagree with. While I get the passion and understand what is being said...it is the way it is being said that maybe should be reconsidered?


Nero looks amazing!  I love a close coated muscular dog in shape, they are so impressive! One of my best friends has a 7mth old APBT that is just a sight to see, beautiful, healthy, built like a line backer...soooo very exuberant lol (he needs training because he loooves everyone lol) I'll have to get a pic of him to share. She has been feeding him Wellness Puppy but long story short has lost her income and I had to help her pick something out the other day that she can better afford unfortunately....I think he will be just fine. I should take before and after pics, that would be interesting.

Guys I am so very sorry I ramble  I am like this in person too lol I am always apologizing for it. I know I type a lot, it's okay to point it out lol :/ I know I have been challenging many things, it is not intentional and not meant to umm rile people up. I just like to also share my opinion and mine can be very different after everything I have seen and the experience I have had. Usually my goal is only to get people to at least think about and consider what I am saying.... my writing tends to be less personal than I am in person. I just get in a zone when writing about things that are clinical in nature. In any event, I am very much enjoying this board.... this I thank all of you for for making it possible. Nothing I write is meant to alinate anyone, pick on them or harass them. If anyone gets upset with me please PM me and let me know, I would want to know if I have done that.


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## sozzle (May 18, 2011)

Cherri, I have read a few of your posts and I really like the way you put your ideas and experience forward. It is good to have an experienced non raw feeder here to help out others who may need some guidance. For me, although a raw feeder with some cooked NZ dogroll thrown in it is good to hear about alternative ways (to raw) of feeding your dogs. Raw isn't for everyone as we all have our own ideas and limitations. My father in law (retired vet) says that as long as the dog is getting the right nutrition it doesn't matter how they are getting it ie corn or meat, and maybe he is on to something as his 11 year old border collie is in excellent health and bounces around like a youngster and is fed dogroll and kibble with a couple of Tux biscuits a day with the occasional bone. Obviously if a dog has allergies then a process of elimination is a good thing and they may well be allergic to an ingredient in their food? my greyhound doesn't seem to be allergic to anything and loves all food and the dogroll he gets either has rice or wheat in it for binding (not as a main ingredient) after all they are scavengers at heart. I am always willing to learn about dog nutrition and although I probably wouldn't go back to feeding kibble to my dog I do like to see what it out there and feed him a varied diet be it all raw homemade or with an addition of commercial cooked. As I've been away for 5 weeks and he was being looked after by inlaws I had to adapt his diet to make it easy for them and he did very well on half raw and half commercial with a few Tux bics thrown in because they thought he was looking a bit thin (always a worry with greyhounds in the winter). Welcome to DFC and I don't think you are offending anyone.
ps. I am a rambler too - so embarassing.
pps. I have realised too that ideas about lots of things in the world change all the time and what we thought was great last year we don't necessarily now so good to keep learning and keep an open mind and not 'slag each other off' without thinking.


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## sozzle (May 18, 2011)

Bloody hell Meggels you were quick, I hadn't even finished posting, well I had but wanted to edit it!!


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

hahahaha!


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## BearMurphy (Feb 29, 2012)

Kibblelady said:


> Read my recent post, I don't give them the "Strips" my DH does and I explained why...... people are being a bit over the top over my dogs being given a Beggin Strip don't you think?


the other day i found out the frozen soy product I buy for myself involves hexane in the manufacturing process so i threw my last box out. i would do the same for my dog if I found out his food was made with a carcinogen. there is always an alternative to these products so why continue feeding them when you don't need too? plus like shellbell pointed out your dog won't miss it


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## Kibblelady (Jul 13, 2012)

Thank you sozzlel


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## Kibblelady (Jul 13, 2012)

BearMurphy said:


> the other day i found out the frozen soy product I buy for myself involves hexane in the manufacturing process so i threw my last box out. i would do the same for my dog if I found out his food was made with a carcinogen. there is always an alternative to these products so why continue feeding them when you don't need too? plus like shellbell pointed out your dog won't miss it



To be factually accurate, BHA is reasonably expected to be a carcinogen, it is not a confirmed carcinogen. The sun is a carcinogen, a known one. Look I realize what you guys are saying, saying it over and over is not necessary. The dogs may not understand or miss these things but my DH will and as I said in the whole scheme of things this is *not* harming them...there is no need for me to pull these things away for as little of it as they get. This whole protest, or whatever it is is not needed over this.


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## tem_sat (Jun 20, 2010)

Kibblelady said:


> To be factually accurate, BHA is reasonably expected to be a carcinogen, it is not a confirmed carcinogen. The sun is a carcinogen, a known one. Look I realize what you guys are saying, saying it over and over is not necessary. The dogs may not understand or miss these things but my DH will and as I said in the whole scheme of things this is *not* harming them...there is no need for me to pull these things away for as little of it as they get. This whole protest, or whatever it is is not needed over this.


Please keep in mind that the "protest" is not necessarily directed at you. It is so that those who read this information in the future may be strongly advised to reconsider feeding something such as Beggin' Strips.


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## Unosmom (May 3, 2009)

Well, good news I talked to the owner and he's going to try them on grain free Nutri-source which seems to be within his budget. Hopefully they will do better on it.


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## RedneckCowgirl (Oct 28, 2011)

Just throwing this out there

Longterm use of sugar+carbs will equal cancer at some point in the dogs lives. And to say that cancer is common in old dogs, the only senior dogs I've been around that have had cancer issues are my Aunts labs who are all obese their whole lives, fed Ol Roy and given all kinds of sugary treats and other dogs who are fed similar. Dogs that haven't had the carb/sugar loaded diets I have noticed don't get the cancers that are now considered common. My dogs don't get fleas when fed raw either... something that everyone is told is impossible without topicals/flea treatments.

So to say that cancer is in no way connected to feeding, well, the anecdotal evidence is more than enough for me.


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## Unosmom (May 3, 2009)

I agree, sugar feeds cancer cells not to mention destroys teeth, so I avoid it at all costs..


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## skadoosh (Jun 11, 2012)

I definitely think poor nutrition contributes to early aging. Poor nutrition is subjective however... some people think high quality kibble is crap and that raw is the only way and vice versa.


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## Unosmom (May 3, 2009)

Today he also asked me how often I brush Uno's teeth because they are so clean, I said that I don't and give him raw bones instead. He was very surprised and might even try it for his dogs.


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## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

I definitely think that nutrition has a huge impact on longevity and health. I also think genetics is a huge factor. But here is how I look at it. A dog who was poorly bred and is likely to have a shorter lifespan because of it can only be helped by proper nutrition. If a dog lived to be 8 or 9 maybe he could have lived to 10 or 11 with proper nutrition. If a well bred dog lived to 15 or 16, who is to say he couldn't have lived to 17 or 18 with proper nutrition? 

I don't think feeding a proper diet adds a huge amount to a dog's life but I do think that it can indeed add a couple of years in addition to keeping the dog healthier for much longer. 

When Dude was on Pedigree he was often guessed to be his correct age. People KNEW he was 6 or 7 years old. Just a year later he is consistently guessed to be 3-4 years old. I have not had anyone guess his correct age in almost a year. He will be 9 in November. He is SO much healthier on raw than he was on Pedigree. I don't think he would have had to be switched to raw to see the drastic difference in his health. There would have been huge, noticeable improvements on a good kibble too. I say from Pedigree to raw simply because that's what I switched from/to.



meggels said:


> I do that all the time lol. Or it bugs me that my aunt feeds something that comes in multi-colored kibbles (Beneful is my guess) to her two maltese's, but they could *easily* afford something decent.


I think family is hardest, to be honest. When it's a stranger you often never see their dogs and/or never actually know what the food is being bought for or whatever. But with family you have to sit and watch and, in many cases, try to convince them to no avail. It's WONDERFUL when family DOES decide to switch. My cousin came to me wanting to learn to feed raw. We are now dealing with some allergies but her dog went from picking at food and eating almost nothing to absolutely loving her meals and she is thrilled with the positive change in her dog's health. She went from whatever the rescue was feeding her to a significantly better diet. 

My mom is slowly bettering her boxer's food because she was allergic to something in the Pedigree she was eating. She went to Canidae and is now on Nature's Variety because she started itching again after a few weeks on Canidae. I don't know where NV is on the scale of dog food quality but it's better than Pedigree! Unfortunately, I can't seem to get her to feed their little mix that Nick and I found last time we were out there anything better than Pedigree because she "does just fine on it".


I don't feed junk treats either. I have a box of itty bitty, bite-sized-for-a-chihuahua-puppy, Milkbones in my bookshelf that have been sitting there for 9 or 10 months. I had always fed the bad treats like Milkbones and, after learning the ingredients and researching nutrition more I stopped feeding them and there they sit and there they will stay until I remember to toss them.


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## Destiny (Jul 29, 2012)

I have a whippet, who has pancreatitis, she is 13, we have always fed her very good quality food, no additives, 
except , one time our supplier ran out of the food for older dogs, and gave us regular adult dog food that was full 
of fat, which is how she developed the pancreatitis,, we now feed her only home cooked food, as even the specialty
food from the vet made he bowels loose,, she is doing great on it,, except I do worry about her not getting enough vitamins
and minerals. I have to say, her body absorbs every last bit of the food we feed her, as her stool is small, normal,
and there is very little of it .


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## Destiny (Jul 29, 2012)

I think dogs can age, and even expire due to poor nutrition, just as humans do. One of my whippets only lived to 6, she came from a bad kennel,
she developed cancer of the pancreas., my second one from an excellent kennel died of heart disease at 12, we fed both of them commercial dog kibble. ,
but the first was 6 months when I got her, and she had been fed only scraps,,, not a good beginning. I also think genes play a large part, but we cannot
harm our dogs by feeding good quality food.


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## Kibblelady (Jul 13, 2012)

tem_sat said:


> Please keep in mind that the "protest" is not necessarily directed at you. It is so that those who read this information in the future may be strongly advised to reconsider feeding something such as Beggin' Strips.



Hey I get it and I am with you....


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## Kibblelady (Jul 13, 2012)

RedneckCowgirl said:


> Just throwing this out there
> 
> Longterm use of sugar+carbs will equal cancer at some point in the dogs lives. And to say that cancer is common in old dogs, the only senior dogs I've been around that have had cancer issues are my Aunts labs who are all obese their whole lives, fed Ol Roy and given all kinds of sugary treats and other dogs who are fed similar. Dogs that haven't had the carb/sugar loaded diets I have noticed don't get the cancers that are now considered common. My dogs don't get fleas when fed raw either... something that everyone is told is impossible without topicals/flea treatments.
> 
> So to say that cancer is in no way connected to feeding, well, the anecdotal evidence is more than enough for me.


I never said cancer could not be related to diet. I have said it is not related to Tobe's cancer.... there is no way I would believe that as I know how this dog was bred, raised and fed his entire life. Cancer is quite common in elderly dogs (I hate calling him that...in my mind GSDs should live till 12 at least but that is me being wishful.)


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## Kibblelady (Jul 13, 2012)

Here is an interesting article about the causes of death in dogs

Causes of Death for Dogs by Breed and Age: An Important New Study | The SkeptVet Blog


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## tem_sat (Jun 20, 2010)

Kibblelady said:


> Here is an interesting article about the causes of death in dogs
> 
> Causes of Death for Dogs by Breed and Age: An Important New Study | The SkeptVet Blog


His assessment of: 



> Well, we can say, for example, that cancer is a disease associated with aging, and it is far more common in older dogs than in younger dogs. And, despite the claims sometimes made that it is due to chronic exposure to toxins in commercial dog food, vaccination, and so on, the fact is that the incidence of cancer increases with age in all breeds regardless of differences in lifestyle, and that it also becomes less common in the oldest individuals.


may be considered to be "reaching" as there is no way to review the actual study without paying for it. I don't see him summarizing anything at all in relation to diet. 

All I can go by is:



> Causes of death, categorized by OS or PP, segregated by age, breed, and breed-standard mass. Young dogs died more commonly of gastrointestinal and infectious causes whereas older dogs died of neurologic and neoplastic causes. Increasing age was associated with an increasing risk of death because of cardiovascular, endocrine, and urogenital causes, but not because of hematopoietic or musculoskeletal causes. Dogs of larger breeds died more commonly of musculoskeletal and gastrointestinal causes whereas dogs of smaller breeds died more commonly of endocrine causes.


Am I missing something?


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## Kibblelady (Jul 13, 2012)

I am a bit confused, how is he reaching if you cannot read the material that would be needed to determine that?http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1939-1676.2011.0695.x/abstract


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## tem_sat (Jun 20, 2010)

Kibblelady said:


> I am a bit confused, how is he reaching if you cannot read the material that would be needed to determine that?http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1939-1676.2011.0695.x/abstract


The conclusion here:



> Causes of death, categorized by OS or PP, segregated by age, breed, and breed-standard mass. Young dogs died more commonly of gastrointestinal and infectious causes whereas older dogs died of neurologic and neoplastic causes. Increasing age was associated with an increasing risk of death because of cardiovascular, endocrine, and urogenital causes, but not because of hematopoietic or musculoskeletal causes. Dogs of larger breeds died more commonly of musculoskeletal and gastrointestinal causes whereas dogs of smaller breeds died more commonly of endocrine causes.


does not mention anything having to do with:



> chronic exposure to toxins in commercial dog food, vaccination, and so on...


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## Kibblelady (Jul 13, 2012)

That hinges on the statement "regardless of differences in lifestyle." I would imagine the study collected all sorts of data on the individual dog's being pooled into it.

Here is the entire section



> So what sort of useful conclusions _can_ we draw from these data? Well, we can say, for example, that cancer is a disease associated with aging, and it is far more common in older dogs than in younger dogs. And, despite the claims sometimes made that it is due to chronic exposure to toxins in commercial dog food, vaccination, and so on, the fact is that the incidence of cancer increases with age in all breeds regardless of differences in lifestyle, and that it also becomes less common in the oldest individuals. If it were simply a matter of the risk going up the longer dogs were exposed to such purported environmental toxins, then the risk should continue to rise steadily with age. However, it is well established in humans that there are genetic predispositions to cancer as well as age-associated increases in risk, and that those individuals who survive to extreme old age are relatively less likely to get cancer since they appear to have protective genetic constitutions. The variation in cancer risk by breed and the age-associated patterns seen in this study show a similar pattern.


A good point is made, if it is "toxins" than you would imagine that the longer a dog was "exposed" the more incident would be seen, for example cancer... if this is due to "toxins", then explain the drop off of cancer events after, what was it? Age 10? Would not "toxins" still be there and still damage and create "nasties." Where did the toxins go? Also the trends with cancer and cancer drop off were very similar to humans... it is interesting.

Make sense? To form a real opinion I would have to read the study, I am debating purchasing access to it. As a former breeder it is very interesting to me, but, I am no longer breeding so the value of the specific information is not that relevant.


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## tem_sat (Jun 20, 2010)

Kibblelady said:


> To form a real opinion I would have to read the study


Precisely.


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## Kibblelady (Jul 13, 2012)

tem_sat said:


> Precisely.


Why does that go for me but not you when you commented the author was "reaching?" (Curious, not being stern or anything...really stumped at to why you took exception to that one statement the author made?)


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## tem_sat (Jun 20, 2010)

Kibblelady said:


> Why does that go for me but not you when you commented the author was "reaching?" (Curious, not being stern or anything...really stumped at to why you took exception to that one statement the author made?)


It goes for both of us, however, if the study delved deep into detail such as:

Name: Dog A
Breed: Dachshund
Food Fed: 100 grams of Science Diet Adult 
Treats: None
Age: 3 years
Weight: 8lbs
Vacc History: etc., etc.
Other Stuff: etc.

then on to Dog B...etc

I doubt seriously that the study will give me the detail i would hope to see, therefore, I wouldn't waste my money.


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