# Bowel Obstruction!!



## teenGSPowner (Jun 13, 2013)

Hi, I am a new raw feeder. I started my 5 year old, 50lbs(now) German Short Haired Pointer, Simon, on raw on April 21. He did AMAZING on it. He gained the weight I wanted him to and started to grow back hair in dry dandruffy places. On June 1, I noticed he wasn't really hungry and that Sunday he threw up his food and had lost a total of 10lbs in 3 days. He went to the vet that Monday and had surgery for a bowel obstruction. When we picked him up we got to see what had caused the obstruction. It looked like a chicken rib bone(we think) that had gotten stuck sideways. Our vet said it acted like a dam and things(like grass and some food and maybe a little piece of plastic) got caught in it and nothing could pass through then. We rehabbed him on boiled chicken breast and rice, then raw skinless and boneless chicken breast, and now he is back on chicken quarters and a little bit of liver. I really want to keep feeding raw as the changes I've seen have been wonderful! I'm just wondering what I should do? Should I not feed him the chicken rib area anymore? How do i prevent this in the future? Please Help!


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## FBarnes (Feb 17, 2013)

Chickens don't have rib bones? I don't think? Do they?


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## FBarnes (Feb 17, 2013)

And so sorry that happened. I would think it's very rare for a dog to get an obstruction from a chicken bone. I mean, my dog has swallowed entire thighs without issues. I am proud of you for continuing raw. Do you have a photo of the bone?


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## Tobi (Mar 18, 2011)

Chickens do indeed have rib bones, I can't imagine though... Of all the things getting stuck and having not broken down since they are so incredibly frail and fragile getting stuck...i mean anything is possible, and he was obviously obstructed which I'm very sorry you had to go through and commend you for continuing to feed raw even after such a scary thing. Is there ANY way he could have gotten any cooked bits of chicken from the trash? The structure of cooked bone is far different than uncooked bone, and uncooked bone is easily broken down in a dogs belly... The only reason I ask is because another raw feeder here has a dog and her neighbors threw bones over the fence and her dog got them, and poof, obstruction...


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## teenGSPowner (Jun 13, 2013)

Yes, chickens have rib bones. My dog also swallows other bone and has been fine. I honestly don't understand how it happened, which has me worried... It was a skinny small bone resembling a chicken rib or something like that... I don't have a picture because the bone was sharp and made a hole in the bag which made it kinda stinky, I didn't even think of taking a picture. hwell:


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## FBarnes (Feb 17, 2013)

Well I learn something new every day! LOL! And I agree with Tobi - I've never heard of a dog getting an obstruction from a chicken bone. They just dissolve away. So maybe he ate a bunch of grass right after and the grass wrapped around the bone and didn't allow the stomach acid to dissolve it? Or some other totally freak thing.

I know I am reluctant to feed my dogs bones they have had problems with in the past. So I wouldn't blame you for not wanting to feed him chicken ribs. It wouldn't hurt to just feed him quarters from chickens. Unless the ribs are in the quarters? Man, I need to go find out where chicken ribs are. I thought it was just the backs attached to some cartilage.


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## FBarnes (Feb 17, 2013)

Oh they're part of the back! I know the stomach will dissolve a bone from the sides in, so it could also have started out bigger and been partially digested until it is the size of a rib. in the end I guess it doesn't matter, if it was a raw chicken bone they are pretty much equivalent as far as I'm concerned. Very soft.


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## Tobi (Mar 18, 2011)

FBarnes said:


> Well I learn something new every day! LOL! And I agree with Tobi - I've never heard of a dog getting an obstruction from a chicken bone. They just dissolve away. So maybe he ate a bunch of grass right after and the grass wrapped around the bone and didn't allow the stomach acid to dissolve it? Or some other totally freak thing.
> 
> I know I am reluctant to feed my dogs bones they have had problems with in the past. So I wouldn't blame you for not wanting to feed him chicken ribs. It wouldn't hurt to just feed him quarters from chickens. Unless the ribs are in the quarters? Man, I need to go find out where chicken ribs are. I thought it was just the backs attached to some cartilage.


Lol, it's on the frame, with the chicken breast bones :lol: some of the quarters just have spine on them.

Grass getting wrapped around it is an interesting theory, since they have not a way to break down cellulose it makes sense.


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## teenGSPowner (Jun 13, 2013)

Tobi- There is absolutely NO way he could have eaten cooked chicken bones. He is an outside dog. He is on a tie out line unless I'm out there supervising him(he is a hunting dog and must be watched so he doesn't go off hunting by himself!) and we live in the country with neighbors about 1/2 mile away. 
FBarnes- I guess that could have been it because the vet said it looked like after he had eaten the bone he ate a bunch of grass and the bone and grass created a "dam"

So what would you guys do if you were in my position???


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## Tobi (Mar 18, 2011)

Bad things happen with all food, I had a dog that died because of a complication in surgery from eating a sock... There are so many things that can kill a dog if swallowed, or eaten... Kibble included... 

If a dog choked and nearly died on kibble there would be no question I would be shaken, but I wouldn't think twice about feeding him still, the same holds true with raw, noise fb pointed out, maybe by some freak accident grass protected the bone and stopped it from breaking down, I would do what I felt most comfortable with if I were you. If it were me, I'd continue to feed the most healthy way I could, raw.


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## teenGSPowner (Jun 13, 2013)

Do you think I should stop feeding him the pieces with the ribs?


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## FBarnes (Feb 17, 2013)

My dogs have had surgeries due to raw. One choked on a turkey neck. One got a piece boneless meat stuck and passed out. And various and assorted other horrors I try to block out of my memory. But still, I perservere with raw. I try to learn from what happened and not let it happen again, but I know it's what's best so I grit my teeth, say a prayer, and hand them another bony meal. 

Maybe don't let him eat a bunch of grass after a meal, just in case??


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## FBarnes (Feb 17, 2013)

If you are more comfortable leaving the ribs out, by all means leave them out. I personally think it was just a freak thing but then again there's no absolute need for chicken ribs in his diet.


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

FBarnes said:


> Chickens don't have rib bones? I don't think? Do they?


Silly


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## Fundog (Oct 25, 2012)

Is there any reason why he cannot be brought into the house, especially to rest after meals? That would prevent him eating grass right after a meal....

And yeah, I would go with the bigger drumsticks and thighs instead of boned breasts from now on.

(BTW, I have hunting dogs too-- one is an English Setter) : )


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## wolfsnaps88 (Jan 2, 2012)

Maybe, since this dog is new to raw, his body wasn't digesting the food thoroughly? I am not sure but I'm glad you posted this as I don't hear many stories like this and its a reminder that it CAN happen. 
I'm glad your dog is ok now. I would avoid chicken backs for now and just feed leg quarters and breasts (meaty stuff).


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

FBarnes said:


> My dogs have had surgeries due to raw. One choked on a turkey neck. One got a piece boneless meat stuck and passed out. And various and assorted other horrors I try to block out of my memory. But still, I perservere with raw. I try to learn from what happened and not let it happen again, but I know it's what's best so I grit my teeth, say a prayer, and hand them another bony meal.
> 
> Maybe don't let him eat a bunch of grass after a meal, just in case??


I too have had a 1900.00 endoscopy surgery to remove a turkey neck in my female, I fed whole like suggested but I believe that the membrane that surrounds it caused the neck to stay in a large piece. I would not give up on raw feeding ever as there are way too many benefits that out weigh the cons.


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## teenGSPowner (Jun 13, 2013)

Fundog- Simon is not allowed in the house at all(my parents rule being as I am only 15)

:shocked: whiteleo I am shocked!! Simon's surgery + 1 week of antibiotics only cost about $250!

I also don't think that the problem was because he was new to raw, as I have never really seen bone chunks in his poo.


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## Sillydogs (Mar 30, 2013)

See, this is why I dont feed raw. Im afraid 1 of the dogs will unexpectedly need surgery 1 day. Also, raw meat hits the ground, the dog eats it, walks all over, kids and a baby walking around barefoot, diseases and bacteria can spread easily from the raw meat this way... which could result in a sick dog or a sick human. Why risk it? Im sticking with Acana. All the raw feeders, just keep your fingers crossed.


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

Sorry that happened to you! I wouldn't stop feeding raw at all. A dog can get obstructions from any number of things, not just raw. I do think I would stick to quarters for now, until his body is more adjusted and digesting better. Is he a gulper by chance? If so, be sure to feed large enough cuts that he will have to chew more. Keep an eye on him while he eats as well. Mine are all almost five years into raw, and I still watch them all while they are eating.


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## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

Sillydogs said:


> See, this is why I dont feed raw. Im afraid 1 of the dogs will unexpectedly need surgery 1 day. Also, raw meat hits the ground, the dog eats it, walks all over, kids and a baby walking around barefoot, diseases and bacteria can spread easily from the raw meat this way... which could result in a sick dog or a sick human. Why risk it? Im sticking with Acana. All the raw feeders, just keep your fingers crossed.


I think you can swop the words 'raw meat' with the word 'kibble' and end up with the exact same hypothetical problem. There have been many, many kibbles recalled for salmonella contamination. Do a google search and you'll see.
I'm another one who believes wholeheartedly that the 'risk's, whatever they may be, are more than worth it. Thats why I switched my dog over to raw, because of the kibble recall's that killed hundreds of dogs and cats. She was eating that kibble. Now that is a risk I am not prepared to take. 
At the end of the day, we are all only trying to do what we feel is best for our dogs, why else would we bother ourselves coming on a forums like this.

And yes teengsp, I'd feed a bit more meatier portions from now on. You are doing great though, and good on your for sticking with it. 
Also, I'd stick like glue to your vet, that was a pretty decent price!


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## Tobi (Mar 18, 2011)

Sillydogs said:


> See, this is why I dont feed raw. Im afraid 1 of the dogs will unexpectedly need surgery 1 day. Also, raw meat hits the ground, the dog eats it, walks all over, kids and a baby walking around barefoot, diseases and bacteria can spread easily from the raw meat this way... which could result in a sick dog or a sick human. Why risk it? Im sticking with Acana. All the raw feeders, just keep your fingers crossed.


If you would like I could link you the dozens of recalls of kibble for salmonella in the recent past... The risk is all the same wither way, your dog could eat a sock and die (one of mine did) it could have an unexpected surgery from a genetic defect, knee caps can slip, heart defects can be very quick in showing, I don't use an antibacterial soap, I use water that is just hot enough to not burn my hands, people and this unnatural fear of bacteria and germs are getting more and more people scared for their lives... I've never had salmonella nor my kids, or my dog, in fact frequently my dog licks me after eating... No salmonella, and no fingers crossed... Don't let fear grip you, life is too short.


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

Tobi said:


> If you would like I could link you the dozens of recalls of kibble for salmonella in the recent past... The risk is all the same wither way, your dog could eat a sock and die (one of mine did) it could have an unexpected surgery from a genetic defect, knee caps can slip, heart defects can be very quick in showing, I don't use an antibacterial soap, I use water that is just hot enough to not burn my hands, people and this unnatural fear of bacteria and germs are getting more and more people scared for their lives... I've never had salmonella nor my kids, or my dog, in fact frequently my dog licks me after eating... No salmonella, and no fingers crossed... Don't let fear grip you, life is too short.


Not to be forgotten but also the many bowel obstruction surgeries done from dogs eating socks, underwear, things out of the garbage (cooked chicken bones) Don't think your immune just because you feed kibble


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## BearMurphy (Feb 29, 2012)

i'm sorry you had a bad experience with a bone causing an obstruction. i don't see how a tiny rib bone can get that far without dissolving under normal circumstances, so that was definitely a freak occurrence. it's pretty hard to monitor what an outside dog puts in his mouth so I think he is open to issues regardless of what you feed. hope you continue with raw and don't run into anymore problems!


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## FBarnes (Feb 17, 2013)

Sillydogs said:


> See, this is why I dont feed raw. Im afraid 1 of the dogs will unexpectedly need surgery 1 day. Also, raw meat hits the ground, the dog eats it, walks all over, kids and a baby walking around barefoot, diseases and bacteria can spread easily from the raw meat this way... which could result in a sick dog or a sick human. Why risk it? Im sticking with Acana. All the raw feeders, just keep your fingers crossed.


And you felt the need to say this... why? The bacteria thing is ridiculous. It's not what this thread is about, for one thing. Gratuitous inanities are really unnecessary. Feed Acana. Good for you.


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## FBarnes (Feb 17, 2013)

whiteleo said:


> I too have had a 1900.00 endoscopy surgery to remove a turkey neck in my female, I fed whole like suggested but I believe that the membrane that surrounds it caused the neck to stay in a large piece. I would not give up on raw feeding ever as there are way too many benefits that out weigh the cons.


We had an endoscopy for cooked ribs meant for humans, so I don't count that one. And I wanna go to the vet that does surgery for $250???


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

i think you had a freak occurence. 

there are risks to everything. from taking a shower to walking across the street to feeding kibble to feeding raw.

i would be there when your dog eats...and then i would rest the dog. that a breast rib from a chicken caused that kind of obstruction is puzzling, but i guess it could happen.

please don't give up feeding raw. your dog will benefit so greatly from it.

and, sillydogs.....scare tactics? really? you remind me of someone whose name starts with 's'.


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## Kat (Jul 12, 2011)

I'm sorry to hear that happened to your dog, but I'm happy to hear that he is recovering from it. Like others have said, there are risks with everything. And with all the recent kibble recalls, I feel a lot safer feeding raw. Once a week I give my two lamb shanks, and they drag those across the carpet on occasion. I have not gotten sick, and neither have my dogs r anyone in my family. I just clean any blood with a hot damp towel and that's it. And I've had a few scary choking incidents, then I go through a little scared phase of being extra careful, and then I relax again.


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## Herzo (Feb 5, 2011)

Glad your dog is better and don't give up. Last summer the Turtle went on a walk about and got into something I have no idea what it was and I stupidly went ahead and fed her chicken legs and it backed up some on her. Luckily I didn't have to have surgery just a vet visit and an ex-ray, was sort of funny as the vet say's well it does look like there are bones in there. "Well of course I fed her chicken legs for breakfast" My vet doesn't know I feed raw she has never asked and so I have never told.

But what ever she got into made her plug up a bit but I just fed her chicken broth and liver broth for the next day and she was fine. Now Marlo can be a stink and she will sometimes swallow things whole if she thinks I have more for her. Twice when I am feeding deer ribs, I go out side and let them eat in the yard and I am trying to get some out to all the dogs which of course are all frantic about getting there's so Marlo has swallowed hers it has always been fine thank the good Lord. I'm going to have to feed her last then I have to go back in the house because if I stand there with the plate she thinks I still have something so she has to swallow hers. Shes a pig!!


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## teenGSPowner (Jun 13, 2013)

Thanks for all of your input! I didn't mean to scare anyone away from feeding raw...as I am still planning on feeding him raw, because its so much healthier and he thrives on it. Simon normally isn't a gulper but once in a while he will try it but then throws it back up and chews much more thoroughly. I ALWAYS supervise him while he eats, just to make sure he eats and nothing goes wrong. And like many of you have said there is a risk to everything, 2 years ago he ate something(which we are still not sure what it was) and had another bowel obstruction surgery...haha at the same price too!!


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## Fundog (Oct 25, 2012)

TeenGSP, I'm terribly curious here. Can I ask why your parents will not allow Simon in the house?


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

Sillydogs, please try to keep on topic and do not bash/criticize raw in the raw section. Thank you.


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## teenGSPowner (Jun 13, 2013)

Fundog said:


> TeenGSP, I'm terribly curious here. Can I ask why your parents will not allow Simon in the house?


My parents are just not fans of indoor pets. Its always been no pets allowed in the house since I was little...as for the exact reason I probably can't tell you. It always been this way so I never really questioned it.


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## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

teenGSPowner said:


> Fundog- Simon is not allowed in the house at all(my parents rule being as I am only 15)


This I understand. When I was 13 my parents bought me a Smooth Collie. When we went to get the dog I had been told that, like our Dalmatian (who was the dog that had passed that had opened up a "vacancy" as the 2nd family dog spot), he would be an indoor dog. When we got home I was told to put him in our dog run on the side of the house. It took me YEARS to get them to let me have him inside on a towel, then inside in my bedroom, then inside just a couple of nights a week, then inside just about every night. Thankfully, I am now 22, married, and moved out and Dude, who will be 10 in November, is a fully indoor dog. So I do understand your lack of ability to bring him inside. Polite persistence worked for me so maybe, over time, it will work for you.

Their reason was that "he sheds too much". Had I know they would use that I would have chosen a different breed but what's done is done and he is a happy, indoor dog now. I would suggest spending time with him after eating to make sure he doesn't eat any grass. You could always take some homework out there (I know, I know. It's summertime right now but not for long) and do it outside. I used to do my homework in the part of the dog run that was inside the garage on Dude's bed.



Sillydogs said:


> See, this is why I dont feed raw. Im afraid 1 of the dogs will unexpectedly need surgery 1 day. Also, raw meat hits the ground, the dog eats it, walks all over, kids and a baby walking around barefoot, diseases and bacteria can spread easily from the raw meat this way... which could result in a sick dog or a sick human. Why risk it? Im sticking with Acana. All the raw feeders, just keep your fingers crossed.


My kibble fed Dobermans (separate occasions) unexpectedly needed surgery one day that were completely unrelated to food. The second Doberman also used to hunt for her own birds and rabbits and eat them on the back patio that we walked around barefoot on. ALL dogs walk around outside where their own urine and feces are or once were and track it around. One of my dogs used to routinely choke on kibble and had to be watched like a hawk during meal times. We have fed raw for 2 years and no sicknesses or disease in anyone. When it's too wet out (super rainy state) they eat in my kitchen. Many people on this forum have children and babies.

I'm not sure you realize that you need to wash your hands after handling Acana just like you need to wash your hands after handling raw meat. Both are a risk. Neither is totally safe. I don't keep my fingers crossed any more than I did when I was feeding kibble. Why come into this thread at all if you're just going to say things like this? If something like this was said in the kibble section it would cause an uproar.


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## Sheltielover25 (Jan 18, 2011)

Dude and Bucks Mamma said:


> My kibble fed Dobermans (separate occasions) unexpectedly needed surgery one day that were completely unrelated to food. The second Doberman also used to hunt for her own birds and rabbits and eat them on the back patio that we walked around barefoot on. ALL dogs walk around outside where their own urine and feces are or once were and track it around. One of my dogs used to routinely choke on kibble and had to be watched like a hawk during meal times. We have fed raw for 2 years and no sicknesses or disease in anyone. When it's too wet out (super rainy state) they eat in my kitchen. Many people on this forum have children and babies.
> 
> I'm not sure you realize that you need to wash your hands after handling Acana just like you need to wash your hands after handling raw meat. Both are a risk. Neither is totally safe. I don't keep my fingers crossed any more than I did when I was feeding kibble. Why come into this thread at all if you're just going to say things like this? If something like this was said in the kibble section it would cause an uproar.


Yeah, not only are people feeding babies and children as well as feeding raw you have people like ME who have autoimmune issues and about every virus under the sun, but yet has never got anything due to handling raw meat for over 2.5 years. Not to be offensive, but it makes someone sound unintelligent when they say such things as kibble is constantly being recalled due to salmonella, on behalf of humans getting sick, not the animals. Or what about my organic berries from Costco that were just recalled due to Hep A? Yeah, but raw meat is the bad one here? I know I trust my handling practices better than a bunch of underpaid workers... So yeah, read up on how dangerous your cooked-to-death processed food is... dangerous in the handling process and dangerous on their health to boot!


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## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

Sheltielover25 said:


> Yeah, not only are people feeding babies and children as well as feeding raw you have people like ME who have autoimmune issues and about every virus under the sun, but yet has never got anything due to handling raw meat for over 2.5 years. Not to be offensive, but it makes someone sound unintelligent when they say such things as kibble is constantly being recalled due to salmonella, on behalf of humans getting sick, not the animals. Or what about my organic berries from Costco that were just recalled due to Hep A? Yeah, but raw meat is the bad one here? I know I trust my handling practices better than a bunch of underpaid workers... So yeah, read up on how dangerous your cooked-to-death processed food is... dangerous in the handling process and dangerous on their health to boot!


Not sure of this was aimed at me or not...


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## FBarnes (Feb 17, 2013)

Dude and Bucks Mamma said:


> Not sure of this was aimed at me or not...


LOL! I think she was agreeing with you  And I also agree that if raw feeders stay out of the kibble section saying how horrible kibble is, then kibble feeders should do the same on a raw food thread.


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

We almost lost my little raw weaned sheltie to grass of all things. Last Spring she decided to go on a grazing spree and got a wad of grass lodged in her throat. After a few hours of her being very quiet and tired looking I checked her gums and they were white. Three doses of peroxide and she finally brought up a huge wad of grass. She has never choked on bones but grass almost killed her. You can never to certain what can lodge just right in a throat or intestine and cause issues. A friend's dog swallowed a small lego and it caused an obstruction. 

Sillypup or whatever the new name is might to do well not to be too complacent because you feed kibble. many dogs choke on kibble and a variety of other items. 

Liz


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

Liz said:


> We almost lost my little raw weaned sheltie to grass of all things. Last Spring she decided to go on a grazing spree and got a wad of grass lodged in her throat. After a few hours of her being very quiet and tired looking I checked her gums and they were white. Three doses of peroxide and she finally brought up a huge wad of grass. She has never choked on bones but grass almost killed her. You can never to certain what can lodge just right in a throat or intestine and cause issues. A friend's dog swallowed a small lego and it caused an obstruction.
> 
> Sillypup or whatever the new name is might to do well not to be too complacent because you feed kibble. many dogs choke on kibble and a variety of other items.
> 
> Liz


Yeah...a few weeks ago while at the store, a customer slipped Murph a very large biscuit. 

I looked over and he was making the movement like he was trying to cough something up several times but nothing was coming out. He then began to stumble a few steps and as I was about to pick him up and do the heimlich on him, he finally coughed it up. It was terrifying though


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## Tobi (Mar 18, 2011)

That's crazy Liz... Who would have thought lol!

Today on our hike I had to pull a bamboo shoot out or Tobis throat because whilst hiking he decided to munch and run and he thought he could eat the 12" shoot in a few swallows... Stupid dog... :wacko:


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## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

Liz said:


> We almost lost my little raw weaned sheltie to grass of all things. Last Spring she decided to go on a grazing spree and got a wad of grass lodged in her throat. After a few hours of her being very quiet and tired looking I checked her gums and they were white. Three doses of peroxide and she finally brought up a huge wad of grass. She has never choked on bones but grass almost killed her. You can never to certain what can lodge just right in a throat or intestine and cause issues. A friend's dog swallowed a small lego and it caused an obstruction.
> 
> Sillypup or whatever the new name is might to do well not to be too complacent because you feed kibble. many dogs choke on kibble and a variety of other items.
> 
> Liz


And this is why I don't let mine graze. I remember you telling us about this. I had never had an issue with it until I started feeding raw and realized how truly difficult it is for them to even make a dent in grass, if any at all, during the digestion process.


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## JayJayisme (Aug 2, 2009)

I didn't have time to read every single post here, especially when it strayed off topic thanks to sillydogs uninformed jab at raw feeding. But to the OP, what size pieces of chicken are you feeding? You should try to feed chicken parts as big as your dog will eat. Make the dog break it down and you will likely have fewer problems. This is especially true for gulpers, but all raw fed dogs should be fed pieces as big as they will eat on their own.


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## teenGSPowner (Jun 13, 2013)

You guys are all so helpful! Thanks for all your posts/comments! Simon is doing great and putting weight back on. He got his stitches removed yesterday...haha it took an hour, but we did get them out. I am kinda curious, before Simon had his surgery he would be all excited and would hardly wait till I put his food in the bowl till he ate everything in 30 seconds. Now he is still excited, he eats his liver, then kinda just looks at his chicken quarter and at me like he wants something else but eventually does eat it. Has anyone's dog done that? Is it just a phase he is going through?



JayJayisme said:


> I didn't have time to read every single post here, especially when it strayed off topic thanks to sillydogs uninformed jab at raw feeding. But to the OP, what size pieces of chicken are you feeding? You should try to feed chicken parts as big as your dog will eat. Make the dog break it down and you will likely have fewer problems. This is especially true for gulpers, but all raw fed dogs should be fed pieces as big as they will eat on their own.


I use to get whole chickens(about 4-5lbs) and cut them into about 4 pieces. Now I have just been getting chicken quarters and feeding that to him.


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## BearMurphy (Feb 29, 2012)

Dude and Bucks Mamma said:


> And this is why I don't let mine graze. I remember you telling us about this. I had never had an issue with it until I started feeding raw and realized how truly difficult it is for them to even make a dent in grass, if any at all, during the digestion process.


I forgot about liz's episode with her sheltie so I'm glad you both posted so I could see this again. My dog has been eating grass a lot this year and with all the rain it's longer than usual so I will have to be more vigilant about grazing. I was getting sick of dealing with danglers but there is much worse that can happen


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## Fundog (Oct 25, 2012)

TeenGSP, gundogs are notoriously smart at making associations.... for example, if a gundog happens to be in a briar patch and gets cut up by said briars when a gun coincidentally goes off at that exact moment, the dog is likely to develop gun shyness.

Already my ten year old Annie (a springer retriever cross) has associated her herbal pain meds with relief, and takes me to the kitchen counter after a walk! (It sho isn't cuz they tase good, lol!).

I think you are going to have be very vigilant from now on, give him lots of praises and positive reinforcement when he even so much as licks the chicken you give him. Do be sure and stay outside with him while he eats, and for at least an hour past that.

And... try to open a positive and productive discussion with your parents about *why* dogs are not allowed in the house. The operative word here is "discussion." Do some research about the positive side of allowing dogs to live indoors with the family, and prepare a persuasive presentation. Conduct yourself in a mature, factual manner. See where it goes. You just might change their minds....


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## teenGSPowner (Jun 13, 2013)

Thanks Fundog for the really good advice! Just wondering if there is any way to stop and/or discourage dogs from eating grass?


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## Fundog (Oct 25, 2012)

If you are outside with him, and you see him looking like he might start to graze, distract him: call him to you, act all excited about something else, have his favorite toy to lure him with...

And of course, teach a strong "leave it" command. This is an important part of a trained hunting dog's vocabulary anyway. 

I am absolutely against the use of a shock collar, though they are still extremely popular with most hunters. I firmly believe a well trained hunting dog can be developed through positive methods, and without aversives.


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## teenGSPowner (Jun 13, 2013)

Again, I would like to thank you all for your help/posts! All of your posts were very helpful and encouraging! Simon is pretty much recovered and back to his normal crazy ways!


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