# Earthborn Holistic Grain Free and Shedding



## Georgiapeach (Jan 24, 2011)

Dempsey's been on Earthborn Coastal Catch (grain free) for about 3 weeks now, and I notice he's now shedding a lot. I'm not sure whether it's seasonal shedding or the kibble. he also gets a fish oil capsule in his evening meal daily, as well as a Cosequin DS Plus MSM chewable tablet. He also poos a lot - not diahrrea, just frequent poos. I feed him 3 c., divided into 2 meals per day. He seems to need this amount to maintain his weight.

Does/did anyone else have this going on while feeding Earthborn grain free?


----------



## monster'sdad (Jul 29, 2012)

Georgiapeach said:


> Dempsey's been on Earthborn Coastal Catch (grain free) for about 3 weeks now, and I notice he's now shedding a lot. I'm not sure whether it's seasonal shedding or the kibble. he also gets a fish oil capsule in his evening meal daily, as well as a Cosequin DS Plus MSM chewable tablet. He also poos a lot - not diahrrea, just frequent poos. I feed him 3 c., divided into 2 meals per day. He seems to need this amount to maintain his weight.
> 
> Does/did anyone else have this going on while feeding Earthborn grain free?


I doubt the shedding is due to the food. Shedding is generally due to hormonal changes unless the food is horrible. This time of the year the days get shorter and melatonin levels change, impacts coat. Have you ever noticed on some breeds thin hair on the back of the ears? You almost always see that during the late winter when the shorter days effect melatonin and coat growth. German Shorthaired Pointers are known for this as well as many other breeds.

The frequent poops though are because that food is loaded with pea ingredients. Peas, Pea Protein and Pea Fiber. Pea fiber is a completely inferior fiber compared to beet pulp.

Pea ingredients are known to make larger, softer and more poop.


----------



## SaharaNight Boxers (Jun 28, 2011)

Duke's shedding more right now too. I zoom groomed him yesterday and all his hair clogged the drain. Keep in mind I also just did that the week before. It's probably more with just seasonal shedding.


----------



## Georgiapeach (Jan 24, 2011)

monster'sdad said:


> I doubt the shedding is due to the food. Shedding is generally due to hormonal changes unless the food is horrible. This time of the year the days get shorter and melatonin levels change, impacts coat. Have you ever noticed on some breeds thin hair on the back of the ears? You almost always see that during the late winter when the shorter days effect melatonin and coat growth. German Shorthaired Pointers are known for this as well as many other breeds.
> 
> The frequent poops though are because that food is loaded with pea ingredients. Peas, Pea Protein and Pea Fiber. Pea fiber is a completely inferior fiber compared to beet pulp.
> 
> Pea ingredients are known to make larger, softer and more poop.


I disagree with you on beet pulp being good, but I researched peas in dog food, and you're right on it producing more poo (http://www.petfoodindustry.com/Columns/Ingredient_Issues/2362.html). Earthborn Coastal Catch has peas of some sort as 3 out of the first 7 ingredients. According to this article, peas aren't bad in dog food, but I think the percentage in this food is excessive. I'll be looking for a new food for the next bag. Picking up 5 or more poos a day from a dog this size is no fun. 

I guess the shedding is seasonal. Dempsey must be starting to blow his summer coat, getting ready for winter. We just adopted him a little over a month ago, so I've never experienced a winter with him before.


----------



## meggels (May 30, 2010)

Interesting about the peas..,some of Abbie's best poops have been on eathborns Great Plains feast...


----------



## lovemydogsalways (Mar 4, 2012)

No problems in my house with Earthborn. I am feeding the meadow feast though and plan on feeding Primitive Natural after they are done either this bag.


----------



## monster'sdad (Jul 29, 2012)

Georgiapeach said:


> I disagree with you on beet pulp being good, but I researched peas in dog food, and you're right on it producing more poo (Ingredient Issues: Peas in petfood). Earthborn Coastal Catch has peas of some sort as 3 out of the first 7 ingredients. According to this article, peas aren't bad in dog food, but I think the percentage in this food is excessive. I'll be looking for a new food for the next bag. Picking up 5 or more poos a day from a dog this size is no fun.
> 
> I guess the shedding is seasonal. Dempsey must be starting to blow his summer coat, getting ready for winter. We just adopted him a little over a month ago, so I've never experienced a winter with him before.


Well if you disagree with beet pulp being good you are disagreeing with decades of research. If you want the specific information let me know. I really cannot understand the issue people have with beet pulp, especially when the scientific data is so clear. There is no basis in fact for people saying beet pulp is a bad ingredient. 

*"Beet pulp in a diet encourages colonization of those bacteria which best ferment or digest that form of fiber and discourage those organisms which do not effectively ferment fiber. It so happens that many good bacteria that commonly inhabit the large intestines can deal with beet pulp ( Lactobacillus acidophilus and Enterococcus faecium are just two) and many pathogenic bacteria are not supported by its presence (Clostridium sp.,Salmonella sp. and e. coli)2.

Because beet pulp is an ideal food source for these good bacteria, they tend to overgrow potentially bad bacteria (pathogens and gas producers) and make the gut much more resistant to these harmful organisms. As a result of this digestive or fermentation process, vital nutrients called short chain fatty acids are produced which provide superior nutrition to the cells lining the large intestine enhancing their ability to function.

These short chain fatty acids (SCFA) are the key to a healthy and efficient digestive tract. The cells that line the intestinal track feed voraciously on SCFA. These cells have a high turnover rate and rely on SCFA to provide adequate nutrition. 3

That portion of beet pulp left after the fermentation of bacterial digestive process promotes ideal nutrient digestibility. The volume of stool is not excessive thus allowing the motility of the gut to move the nutrients along at a rate which assures maximum digestion and absorption. 4"*


----------



## Georgiapeach (Jan 24, 2011)

lovemydogsalways said:


> No problems in my house with Earthborn. I am feeding the meadow feast though and plan on feeding Primitive Natural after they are done either this bag.


Meadow Feast is as pea laden as Coastal Catch. Interestingly though, the Primitive Natural has a lot more meat in it, and looks to be a much better kibble, with peas much further down the list of ingredients. I wish my feed store had the sample bags for me to try. For some reason, they don't, although they have the other varieties! I hesitate to buy a large bag, only to find out my dogs can't eat it.


----------



## monster'sdad (Jul 29, 2012)

Georgiapeach said:


> Meadow Feast is as pea laden as Coastal Catch. Interestingly though, the Primitive Natural has a lot more meat in it, and looks to be a much better kibble, with peas much further down the list of ingredients. I wish my feed store had the sample bags for me to try. For some reason, they don't, although they have the other varieties! I hesitate to buy a large bag, only to find out my dogs can't eat it.


Primitive has 12% ash. It does have a lot of meat protein but also lots of bone. Also, I guaranty a signiifcant portion of the GA protein is from bone and not really that digestible. 

With the benefits of protein over 30% non-existent for the average dog, I am not sure I would risk kidney, liver and bladder health.

Think about it, over a month's time you will be buying and feeding 2 - 2.5lbs of extra minerals your dog doesn't need and could cause harm.


----------



## Shamrockmommy (Sep 10, 2009)

I see a couple things happening here with Dempsey. First, you recently adopted him. Who knows what he was fed prior to your getting him and starting him on a better (likely!) food. All that old coat will shed out and new, nice coat will come in. Also, it is fall and both my Chi and my (improper coat- grows like a golden's coat) Portuguese Water Dog are shedding as well. 

12% ash is high! I get nervous for ash levels over 9%, but then I've had stone-formers in the past. I've heard that the higher the ash, the less quality meat meal is used; it's higher in bone. 
HTH


----------



## mheath0429 (Sep 8, 2012)

monster'sdad said:


> Primitive has 12% ash. It does have a lot of meat protein but also lots of bone. Also, I guaranty a signiifcant portion of the GA protein is from bone and not really that digestible.
> 
> With the benefits of protein over 30% non-existent for the average dog, I am not sure I would risk kidney, liver and bladder health.
> 
> Think about it, over a month's time you will be buying and feeding 2 - 2.5lbs of extra minerals your dog doesn't need and could cause harm.


How are bones not digestible to a carnivore -if you don't mind me asking.


----------



## Georgiapeach (Jan 24, 2011)

mheath0429 said:


> How are bones not digestible to a carnivore -if you don't mind me asking.


I was wondering the same thing. 

For those against Earthborn, what is your preferred kibble? I got it b/c several people on another forum recommended it over TOTW for a moderately priced food (I have three dogs to feed)-I don't have a bottomless pocketbook. I also don't feed raw.


----------



## riddick4811 (Nov 2, 2011)

Most of my dogs did fine on Earthborn. None liked the Coastal Catch so we fed Meadows Feast and Great Plains. Poop was good- no issue with bigger poop due to peas. Also ate Nutrisource GF Lamb which uses peas and poop was small on it too. My dogs poop was the largest on Acana Wild Prarie before they changed the ingredients- haven't tried it since then. 

As for shedding- yes my dogs did shed more on Earthborn. I didn't really notice it at first, but especially Casper. He sheds horribly year round anyways, but it was a lot more on Earthborn. Not sure why. Their coats looked good- soft and shiny. 

But his shedding is greatly reduced on NOW GF Largebreed Senior. His poop is firm and he goes w/ no issue. Tear stains are almost gone too.


----------



## mheath0429 (Sep 8, 2012)

Georgiapeach said:


> I was wondering the same thing.
> 
> For those against Earthborn, what is your preferred kibble? I got it b/c several people on another forum recommended it over TOTW for a moderately priced food (I have three dogs to feed)-I don't have a bottomless pocketbook. I also don't feed raw.


Honestly, I like Acana. There are many here that are not fans of it, but I have found it agreed with my dogs very well. I feed raw now, but I keep kibble on hand. I also have Zero/G by Darford. I know you don't feed raw and by all means that is your decision, but why? It is significantly cheaper if you can fidn a place to buy in bulk. But if I recall, there are a few co-ops in GA.


----------



## lovemydogsalways (Mar 4, 2012)

Georgiapeach said:


> I was wondering the same thing.
> 
> For those against Earthborn, what is your preferred kibble? I got it b/c several people on another forum recommended it over TOTW for a moderately priced food (I have three dogs to feed)-I don't have a bottomless pocketbook. I also don't feed raw.


I am obviously not against Earthborn , but my next food I would like to feed them is Fromm 4 star grain free. It is twenty dollars more than the Earthborn though, which is one reason I have not bought it yet. 
I am picking up their first bag of Primitive today at work. I am not worried too much about the high ash, but a little bit. Neither of my dogs have ever had stones or crystals or any urinary problem.


----------



## Georgiapeach (Jan 24, 2011)

mheath0429 said:


> Honestly, I like Acana. There are many here that are not fans of it, but I have found it agreed with my dogs very well. I feed raw now, but I keep kibble on hand. I also have Zero/G by Darford. I know you don't feed raw and by all means that is your decision, but why? It is significantly cheaper if you can fidn a place to buy in bulk. But if I recall, there are a few co-ops in GA.


DH and I travel/camp frequently, plus I live in a small house and don't have the freezer space to house all that meat (don't want to buy a special freezer just for the dogs). I saw a thread on looking in people's freezers at people's raw meat stashes, and I was blown away by how much time must be spent looking for deals, buying, and preparing all that food, nevermind the cost for a dog the size of Dempsey (54 lb.), plus my two 13 lb. yappers that are very fuzzy/hairy. DH says absolutely not, and I can't blame him.

I'd love to feed Acana, but the price difference between it and Earthborn is pretty significant. I guess I'll stick with what I have for now (and maybe try the Primitive Natural variety).


----------



## Shamrockmommy (Sep 10, 2009)

I am a 100% all raw fed 'burnout.' I've noticed that my dogs look better with kibble in their diet. Much better coat and skin- I have tons of books on raw feeding and apparently, something was missing for my girls. I also do not have the space for a freezer nor the time to hack up carcasses for the girls. 

That said, what I do now is: Per Monica Segal's booklet "Enhancing Commercial Diets," I add a meat/veg/calcium mixture to the kibble and then add tepid water to juuuust cover the kibble in the bowl. They get 2/3 dry food and 1/3 raw topper mixture for their daily diet. 

For one, I know the food combination is 'balanced' as Monica's done all the work for me  and I also feel good that they are getting high quality raw meat and veg. 
The girls are THRIVING. With RMBs 1-2 times a week for tooth health, everything is great. One of the girls, Darby, just had bloodwork done and she is 11 yrs, everything looks great  

ANyway, thought I'd share what's working for me, if you are interested in incorporating some raw into their diets.


----------



## meggels (May 30, 2010)

Shamrockmommy said:


> I am a 100% all raw fed 'burnout.' I've noticed that my dogs look better with kibble in their diet. Much better coat and skin- I have tons of books on raw feeding and apparently, something was missing for my girls. I also do not have the space for a freezer nor the time to hack up carcasses for the girls.
> 
> That said, what I do now is: Per Monica Segal's booklet "Enhancing Commercial Diets," I add a meat/veg/calcium mixture to the kibble and then add tepid water to juuuust cover the kibble in the bowl. They get 2/3 dry food and 1/3 raw topper mixture for their daily diet.
> 
> ...


Do you mind sharing the recipe for the topper? I have a dog on kibble and might try it


----------



## mheath0429 (Sep 8, 2012)

Shamrockmommy said:


> I am a 100% all raw fed 'burnout.' I've noticed that my dogs look better with kibble in their diet. Much better coat and skin- I have tons of books on raw feeding and apparently, something was missing for my girls. I also do not have the space for a freezer nor the time to hack up carcasses for the girls.
> 
> That said, what I do now is: Per Monica Segal's booklet "Enhancing Commercial Diets," I add a meat/veg/calcium mixture to the kibble and then add tepid water to juuuust cover the kibble in the bowl. They get 2/3 dry food and 1/3 raw topper mixture for their daily diet.
> 
> ...


TO each their own. Glad you are having success!


----------



## monster'sdad (Jul 29, 2012)

mheath0429 said:


> How are bones not digestible to a carnivore -if you don't mind me asking.


That is easy. Once bone is heated the structure becomes "denatured" and very hard. While grinding bone does increase the surface area it is still not that digestible. Surface area increases digestibility but I really don't like my dogs eating a lot of cooked bone. It is a cheap product.

For the same reason people frown upon "meat and bone meal" they should frown upon this food. It is pretty much the same thing but the labelling rules allows for this type of misleading information.

Would anyone buy this food if it said "chicken and bone meal"???? I doubt it.

This food is made with chicken and turkey meal that is stripped by machine so lots of bone get caught up in the process. Foods with very low ash..hint hint hint..use chicken meal that is hand stripped.


----------



## mheath0429 (Sep 8, 2012)

thanks dear. Just wondered.


----------



## benp (Mar 18, 2011)

Georgiapeach said:


> Dempsey's been on Earthborn Coastal Catch (grain free) for about 3 weeks now, and I notice he's now shedding a lot. I'm not sure whether it's seasonal shedding or the kibble. he also gets a fish oil capsule in his evening meal daily, as well as a Cosequin DS Plus MSM chewable tablet. He also poos a lot - not diahrrea, just frequent poos. I feed him 3 c., divided into 2 meals per day. He seems to need this amount to maintain his weight.
> 
> Does/did anyone else have this going on while feeding Earthborn grain free?


I started off with Orijen Fish and started mixing in the Coastal Catch. 

I have noticed when it's primarily the Coastal Catch, Clint poops 1 more time a day vs straight Orijen. 3 vs 2 times.

I have seen no increase in shedding, but he is a shed monster anyways except for the winter.


----------



## DaViking (Sep 27, 2011)

benp said:


> I started off with Orijen Fish and started mixing in the Coastal Catch.
> 
> I have noticed when it's primarily the Coastal Catch, Clint poops 1 more time a day vs straight Orijen. 3 vs 2 times.
> 
> I have seen no increase in shedding, but he is a shed monster anyways except for the winter.


Looks like Coastal Catch got more potatoes, peas, pea protein, various fiber sources and other carbohydrates than Orijen 6 Fish. Orijen use an animal source for fat. Coastal Catch use canola oil.


----------



## lauren43 (Feb 6, 2011)

Shamrockmommy said:


> I am a 100% all raw fed 'burnout.' I've noticed that my dogs look better with kibble in their diet. Much better coat and skin- I have tons of books on raw feeding and apparently, something was missing for my girls. I also do not have the space for a freezer nor the time to hack up carcasses for the girls.
> 
> That said, what I do now is: Per Monica Segal's booklet "Enhancing Commercial Diets," I add a meat/veg/calcium mixture to the kibble and then add tepid water to juuuust cover the kibble in the bowl. They get 2/3 dry food and 1/3 raw topper mixture for their daily diet.
> 
> ...


I really have no issues with "enhancing commercial diets" (actually I think its fantastic) but I do wonder why you add calcium and in what form? From what I understand most commercially prepared foods have enough (if not more than enough) calcium in them. And from what I understand, you do not want to over do it on the calcium...


----------

