# Depressed, Wont Eat.



## thegoodstuff (May 12, 2010)

Nicky was a rescue six years ago. He is a 7 y/o pit/lab mix , approx 70lbs. He stopped eating 1 week ago when Java was euthanized because he had cancer. Actually, he started ignoring his food the day before. There were other signs he definitely knew something was going on. This week he has other depressed behavior like he will just sit and stare at me when normally he will be alert and wagging tail. Sometimes I say "he is the happiest dog in the world because he wags his tail when I pet the _other_ dog". Always follows me from room to room, now much less. So there is a big difference. He is maintaining his weight, Im doing it by eye - I dont trust the 'holding him while on human scale' method, but 6 months ago I reduced his intake to reduce his weight after TTA surgery, but he didnt lose hardly any weight. 

Usual diet: wet food, kibble, green beans (fiber), apples (to replace carbs lost in ↓ post surgery intake).

At first, he was only eating treats but over the week Ive had success with plain yogurt which is not new though now he will lick the yogurt out from between the kibble. Ignored most of the tuna over kibble, apples in yogurt - eats only the yogurt. Eats bananas but wont now. Wont eat wet food mixed in with lots of yogurt, or oatmeal. He will eat cold cut ham, hot dogs, peanut butter, treats. I crushed corn flakes in yogurt - no, but he did eat all of a bowl of corn flakes and milk. When he ignored wet food in yogurt, I took the bowl away and pretended to put more yogurt in it and then he licked the bowl clean. These are experiments, not food he gets normally. Looks like protein is not an issue but he's not getting many carbs.

I did start walking him twice a day (leash walks usually are not frequent). Took him swimming at pool and lake, playing new games and generally loading on the TLC and praise. Will this just run its course or should I start worrying about it soon?


----------



## Jynical (Jun 22, 2011)

My gut reaction is that this will pass... just keep offering. <3


----------



## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

Yeah, I think he just has to have his time to grieve. He also needs time to adjust to a new life and both those are quite stressful things. The main thing is that he is eating, although I'd start introducing his normal food soon and cutting back on the nice new stuff. He'll be fine, I'm sure of that, you are taking the extra time and effort to help him with the transition, your caring will pay off.


----------



## DoglovingSenior (Jun 26, 2011)

He is grieving. This is how I began feeding RAW, I had lurked on various nutrition lists-there was not that much around in 1999. My Rottie female was grieving for my heart dog that I had to put down because of cancer-she did not eat for 4 or 5 days & I was frantic. The vet gave me something to stimulate her appetite to no avail. I was going nuts, I just couldn't lose two. One evening I was fixing burgers & dropped a piece of raw ground chuck on the floor-she sniffed and ate it. I couldn't believe it but kept dropping pieces and the rest is history. She was 12 & lived to be14+, running again, climbing up on a couch in the sunroom which she had not done for a year, no more hot spots!

Not trying to change your feeding policy, just stating what happened to me. It would probably have passed in time.


----------



## thegoodstuff (May 12, 2010)

MollyWoppy said:


> Yeah, I think he just has to have his time to grieve. He also needs time to adjust to a new life and both those are quite stressful things. The main thing is that he is eating, although I'd start introducing his normal food soon and cutting back on the nice new stuff. He'll be fine, I'm sure of that, you are taking the extra time and effort to help him with the transition, your caring will pay off.


I finally came up with a meal he will eat (so far) - 2 bowls of corn chex with 1% milk, 2 hot dogs in yogurt. I guess that covers protien and carbs. I guess when to introduce his normal food will just be 'try it and see'. I have a feeling its not gonna be easy.



DoglovingSenior said:


> He is grieving. This is how I began feeding RAW, I had lurked on various nutrition lists-there was not that much around in 1999. My Rottie female was grieving for my heart dog that I had to put down because of cancer-she did not eat for 4 or 5 days & I was frantic. The vet gave me something to stimulate her appetite to no avail. I was going nuts, I just couldn't lose two. One evening I was fixing burgers & dropped a piece of raw ground chuck on the floor-she sniffed and ate it. I couldn't believe it but kept dropping pieces and the rest is history. She was 12 & lived to be14+, running again, climbing up on a couch in the sunroom which she had not done for a year, no more hot spots!
> 
> Not trying to change your feeding policy, just stating what happened to me. It would probably have passed in time.


Thats great how that worked out. He did eat some raw ground chuck when I started lavishing Java with special foods. Id love to do that now but I cant afford to make that his permanent diet.

I forgot to mention that he is having very soft poops last 2 days, this odd *color*. Too much protein? Too much yogurt? Dont worry about it? Stop playing around with HTML color codes? :smile:


----------



## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

I'd cut out the cereal at least.. dogs don't need carbs. Milk as well can be iffy. If you don't want to do raw I would then go back to kibble/canned as all you are doing is teaching him to be picky. He is grieving and will eat in time.. if he is maintaining weight there is no harm done. Plain yogurt however is fine for dogs.


----------



## thegoodstuff (May 12, 2010)

I like the idea of raw. Theyre all wolves when it comes down to it and thats the only thing on the menu for wolves. A dog breeder told me that wolves get carbs from the stomach contents of their prey but I guess thats a small fraction of their diet. If i was to feed him raw, now would be a good time to start. To try to get a rough idea what it would cost, what would a 70 lb dog typically consume? Im not a tightwad, but there is more going out than coming in. What I spend on dogfood was just cut in half, but at this point I would be surprised if there wasnt another mouth to feed at some point. Otherwise, are you saying just put out his regular food and when he is hungry enough he will eat?

Probably already said somewhere in the forum, but dogfood isnt made for dogs, its made for people.


----------



## DoglovingSenior (Jun 26, 2011)

The amount that they need varies - I have a 70 lb APBT who eats the same amount as my 100 lb Rottweiler. 2lbs a day in 2 meals. Different metabolisms. I know what you mean about the cost. I am a retiree on my own - the main meat is chicken, pork neckbones, beef ribs, beef neckbones, beef heart, tongue, liver, kidneys, chicken necks, gizzards, Chicken feet (new) sometimes ground beef, canned mackerel, sardines, I have now found a place to get lamb necks cheaply & am SO Happy. Neither will eat chicken livers-darn them. When there is a sale I stock up. A friend has offered me Venison in the fall & I will add that. I have finally found pork livers and hope that they will like it. 

I do not know where you are located but many on here are fortunate enough to have found suppliers and pay GREAT prices for their meats/bones. Some go on Craigs List I am going to post there and on Freecycle. Good Luck


----------



## thegoodstuff (May 12, 2010)

DoglovingSenior said:


> The amount that they need varies - I have a 70 lb APBT who eats the same amount as my 100 lb Rottweiler. 2lbs a day in 2 meals. Different metabolisms. I know what you mean about the cost. I am a retiree on my own - the main meat is chicken, pork neckbones, beef ribs, beef neckbones, beef heart, tongue, liver, kidneys, chicken necks, gizzards, Chicken feet (new) sometimes ground beef, canned mackerel, sardines, I have now found a place to get lamb necks cheaply & am SO Happy. Neither will eat chicken livers-darn them. When there is a sale I stock up. A friend has offered me Venison in the fall & I will add that. I have finally found pork livers and hope that they will like it.
> 
> I do not know where you are located but many on here are fortunate enough to have found suppliers and pay GREAT prices for their meats/bones. Some go on Craigs List I am going to post there and on Freecycle. Good Luck


I know you feed many different things, but for that 2lbs, can give a ballpark guess what it costs? I looked on Craigs list, didnt see anything. What section do you use and do you mean you post trying to find it or there are sellers already there?


----------



## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

It is not very expensive. One thing you could do right now is go down and buy a chicken quarter, feed him the back part and see if he likes it. If he does, you are on your way and he will be getting some good nutrition.

i don't belong to any co-ops and i don't advertise on craigslist - I feed two dogs, one is 113 pounds, for about what I was paying in dog food, I think. I get chicken from a mexican grocery store and I do buy some rare meats from My Pet Carnivore, but mostly I buy meats when they go 1/2 price or cheaper and I also feed very cheap stuff like gizzards.


----------



## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

thegoodstuff said:


> I know you feed many different things, but for that 2lbs, can give a ballpark guess what it costs? I looked on Craigs list, didnt see anything. What section do you use and do you mean you post trying to find it or there are sellers already there?


two pounds of chicken backs....not very expensive..at its worst, you could pay about 1.39 pound...when i started, that's what my butcher charged me...and that was for a thirty pound case....

which is what i recommend you start with....for at least two weeks.....two meals a day to break it up and allow him to get used to eating raw...give his teeth a chance to get stronger and for the kibble gingivitis to clear up.

plus, he's grieving....the smell of a chicken back might just prove to puzzling at first, irresistable next.

after a few weeks of backs and solid stools, you can add in some meatier chicken every few days and see what there is to see.
chicken leg quarters and thighs are always on sale...

i can get them for less than a dollar a pound....many people here buy for less than that....it all depends on the sales and where you live.

i would not buy in bulk just yet.....transition takes a few months....but whilst you are going through transition..you can start thinking about other proteins to introduce....

try not to flood all at once...because both you and he are all excited about raw...otherwise your dog ends up with cannon butt and vomiting and you end up back on hotdogs and kibble...well, he does but that's what you will feed him.

he may vomit a little...even have shards of bone in it..he might have shards of bone in his stool...no worries...it's just his system adapting..

you want to go very slowly with him, keeping in mind that he's also grieving, so those long walks and play time with you is the best gift you can give to stimulate his appetite and help him move forward. it will help you, too.

danemama and rawfeddogs have two great sites that give you a step by step....and it works....
then you're going to move on to another protein....whilst still giving chicken backs....

at some point, you'll learn how to shop bulk and sales and find suppliers and co ops.....but for now, take your time and go slowly.
going raw is no race, trust me. 

at 70 lbs, 2% of his weight comes out to 22.4 ounces per day....by my calculations...but in the beginning i would not necessarily feed all 22 ounces..i'd start out with a pound or so.....to let him learn how to digest raw....


----------



## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

thegoodstuff said:


> I finally came up with a meal he will eat (so far) - 2 bowls of corn chex with 1% milk, 2 hot dogs in yogurt. I guess that covers protien and carbs. I guess when to introduce his normal food will just be 'try it and see'. I have a feeling its not gonna be easy.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



sugar feeds depression.....it causes that carb crash....


----------



## thegoodstuff (May 12, 2010)

Huh, I just saw this, guess Im a little off. You do mean chicken bones and all, right? I'd have to figure out where the back part of a chicken quarter is. 
He has started to eat his regular meals with a little coaxing. Did I miss the opportunity? A breeder told me its not good to switch to raw at this point in his life, I dont know why. What about chicken wings as treats or added to his regular meals?

Wow, that Pet Carnivore site is something else. Ground whole chicken :noidea: Fascinating

EDIT: I *really* must be off, didnt see either of magicre's last two posts. I have to digest it and post back.


----------



## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

I switched my 10 year old to raw last year and he has become youthful and happy again. He scared me as he was quickly becoming an old man but that all changed with his new food and he is finally excited to eat. We have weaned puppies to raw and switched up to my ten year old. They do fabulous if you go slow and follow the program. I keep my cost to less than $1.00 per pound on average and most of the time less than .75 per pound but a lot depends on what part of the country you are in.


----------



## DoglovingSenior (Jun 26, 2011)

t of a chicken quarter is. 
Did I miss the opportunity? A breeder told me its not good to switch to raw at this point in his life, I dont know why. What about chicken wings as treats or added to his regular meals?

You are NOT too late! The dog who started me feeding raw was a 10 yr old who was languishing after she lost her best friend. (I think I somehow said 12 in earlier posts. She blossomed back to health, begann running, climbing up on the sunroom couch when I was at work-getting off when she heard my car (my mom gave her up)  She lived to be 14-only slowing down the las few months of life.


----------



## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

whilst you're digesting my posts...i'll give you the short version

1. your dog is grieving, so giving cereal is like feeding her sugar....sugar feeds depression. dogs don't need carbs.

my malia was ten years old when we switched her, just like liz....and other than a current tummy thing, NOT caused by her diet....she is doing fine....better than ever...younger looking and younger acting...


----------



## thegoodstuff (May 12, 2010)

Well, this is what I found so far:

turkey necks 30lbs - 75¢/lb
ground turkey - 10lb -89¢
skinless chicken necks 40lbs/$15 - 38¢
chicken backs 40lbs/$10 - 40¢
chicken "trim meat" - fat, cartilage, skin, "some meat" - 60¢ (10 or 20lbs)
chicken rib cages or "frames" - 40lbs/$10
chicken white breast meat pieces - $1.25 - $1.50/lb
chicken necks, backs, trimmings - 99¢
whole chickens "WOGS" - $1.89 - $1.99lb


All the other meats were considerably more. Most of these are from places that sell mostly meats and chickens, not grocery stores. Thing is, I cant buy 40lbs of _anything_. I dont have much freezer space at all.

I started looking at the sites, feeding one's dog could become quite a hobby.


----------



## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

thegoodstuff said:


> Well, this is what I found so far:
> 
> turkey necks 30lbs - 75¢/lb
> ground turkey - 10lb -89¢
> ...


well, hobby is a polite way of calling what most of us have.....it's more like obsession...

i think your dogs are bigger than a chicken neck...and i would not feed them..i forget what size they are, but from the pictures....

turkey necks..you could start with those....
if the frames are meaty, you could start with those, too...

if you take them out of the case and package them in baggies by meal, you can tuck them into every nook and cranny of the space you have.

where there's a will, there is a way. that's what we did in the beginning with chicken backs....30 lbs worth. i'd clean them, bag them into bubba sized bags and malia sized bags and then stuffed them into the freezer...

that lasted two weeks. then we bought our first freezer....a few months after that, we bought our second freezer.

and, if it comes down to it that we ever moved and couldn't have freezers....they would eat what we eat....and i'd be shopping more often....that's how worth it raw is to me.


----------

