# Dog jumping up



## MadPets

My dog is very well trained except for jumping up at people. It is so frustrating to put all this work into training her only for her to jump up and lick peoples faces when they walk through the door or if we are out and about. 
I've tried holding her paws when she jumps up, which didn't work! I've tried just moving out of the way which helped with me but didn't stop her jumping up at others. I've also tried putting my hands over her face, without touching it, when she jumps up which again works with me but not other people. She no longer jumps up to me unless I tell to to come "UP" and pat my chest. I always greet her by kneeling to her level and only giving her attention when she has calmed down. I know dogs need consistency when being trained but it's impossible to tell everyone i come into contact with how to deal with her, especially strangers who's dogs she runs and plays with. Don't get me wrong, I don't just let her off her lead to harass people. She's only off where she's allowed to be and when she is playing with other dogs. 
Is there a good method to teach her that jumping up is not acceptable behaviour?


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## luvMyBRT

Whenever I had a dog that would jump up I would just cross my arms and turn my back to them. Totally ignore them. Every time they jumped up all they got was my back to them. Worked great.

When people come over to my house my dogs have to sit patiently away from the door until they are released to greet the person. They are only allowed to greet the person if they are calm. This does take a while to teach, but with a little calm persistence it pays off. My dogs have never really been jumpers, but if my dog were to jump up on someone I would correct with an "off" command and put the dog in a sit. If I was able to catch the jump up before it happened I would quickly move in front of the dog and using my body language move the dog back and put them in a sit. Give lots of praise when the dog is calmly sitting. I would also tell my guests that when the dog jumps up to turn your back. 

If my dog was prone to jump on random people I would not let her/him off leash in public until the problem was under control. Good luck! :smile:


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## MadPets

I'll certainly try the back turning and the calm sitting. 

I always have her on a lead when people walk past us and she just ignores them. It's only when she's been playing with another persons dog then gets bored and jumps up at the owner. I think I'll keep her on the lead until I feel the training has worked, I don't want to undo the good work by putting temptation in her path straight away.


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## DaneMama

First off, jumping up is one of the hardest things to train a NOT to do. Second, if your dog has issues jumping up on anyone, I wouldn't encourage her to jump up even when asked. Asking for her to jump up on you and being ok with it but jumping up on others isn't ok can be confusing for your dog. Once she has mastered not jumping up on anyone at any time, maybe then train her to jump up on command.

There are a few techniques that I suggest you try:

1) turn around and walk away IMMEDIATELY when your dog jumps up. I do not mean turn around and stand there. Actually walk with a purpose out of the room with your nose in the air, maybe even going into a room and closing the door (don't slam the door though). If the first thing a person does is turn around, walk away, and ignore the dog...eventually they will stop jumping up for attention. You will have to tell all visitors to comply with this as well. Maybe do a couple of "setups" with friends coming over knowingly.

2) Train an incompatible behavior to jumping up. Be prepared and armed with treats. As soon as you walk in the door, ask for a sit (an incompatible behavior to jumping up-physically opposite of one another). Of course this requires your dog to have mastered the sit command. As soon as your dog sits give 15-30 teeny tiny, high value treats one after the other (a full 10-30 seconds of reinforcement for sitting nicely). You want your dog to think it's the best thing in the world to sit at your feet calmly. You don't want to get really excited about it, keep petting and verbal praise to a minimum because too much "what a good dog!" and petting can get her riled up and then she jumps up again. Again, you'll have to make sure every visitor does this with your dog. 

I would try and apply both techniques for even more efficiency.

I wish you the best of luck!!!


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## CavePaws

I completely agree with what Danemama and Luvmybrt said. If you have a big dog you can do tethering to something it might save you a lot of pain in being scratched, though I do encourage you to do the exact same thing off leash to generalize; you can tie to a tree in the backyard if there isn't something heavy enough in the house. You would tie the dog up body length with a leash, make sure you have the dog on a collar. Work on greeting behavior, walk up to the dog and ask for a sit. If you don't get a sit the first time you ask and you get jumping turn and walk away. Walk back up again, ask for a sit, if they do give them a treat and some calm praise. Gradually increase the time the dog sits to increase impulse control as well. With enough repetitions you can get a dog sitting pretty quickly when you walk up. You would have to do this off leash as well, but starting tethered can be a great advantage imo. Takes less Zombie attempts where the dog could be scratching the heck out of you...And when the dog is a 75-80 lb GSD that can be a big problem.

Tethering can work for pulling as well. Set a pile of treats in front of the dog while on leash, tied. When you see slack in the leash praise back either between the dogs paws or throw treat from hand behind the dog. Wait it out if your dog continues pulling. It might take a little bit, but always capture the moment of slack with a yes or click and treat. Once you get a dog who has figured out slack = praise and tension = nothing, they will stop pulling and wait it out for a treat. You can start walking up and praising next to your left foot, so the dog starts associating treats with left side, or whatever side you would prefer your dog to walk on most of the time. This is good for loose leash walking.

Anyway, just some things I've learned that might help. Tethering is a good tool for multiple things.


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## schtuffy

Thank you so much for asking this question MadPets. This has always been one of my dog's biggest hurdles. We do turn around and walk away, but I will try walking further now. I will have to admit, it's my own fault mostly...he's just so small and so cute I can't resist but to hug him when I come home to him pawing at my legs. But yes, it is unacceptable so I'm going to work on it! I also have been telling him to sit in place of the unwanted behavior, and it's sort of working. I'll incorporate all of these suggestions!


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## SilverBeat

This is probably not the greatest method, but we have a smallish dog at the rescue who loves to jump up on people. He did this a lot during training, and the child in me said that he just wanted to be face-to face with me. So I crouched down to his level when I was training him. Obviously, no more jumping. I felt like he was paying attention to me more, which helped me to relax and focus. His training is going a lot better now. We are working on "off" and "leave it" with him, and I tell people to turn their bodies to the side, which works very well [he does not keep trying to jump on them]. 
We have a lab mix who has the same problem, and crouching down when training worked with him too, even though he is a very large dog (I was reluctant to do this because once I was bent down to untangle his leash from around his legs, and he rocketed upwards into my face and gave me quite a nasty bloody nose. That's why his name is Buster). We have tried turning our bodies sideways when he jumps, but sometimes he doesn't stop, so he also gets a gentle nudge in the chest if he keeps jumping. This gets the message to him and he stops.


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## DaneMama

While that method is effective for some dogs, I think it would encourage others to jump up still. It also means that YOU are accommodating the dog, which isn't necessarily ideal. It also doesn't teach the dog not to jump up on people who are standing upright. 

Also, what were you doing when that lab rocketed up into your face? Because that maneuver is a pretty intense distance increasing signal a dog gives to someone. It's called a muzzle punch and it is NOT a friendly thing, even if the dog is acting excited. A muzzle punch is meant for one thing and one thing only...to INCREASE the distance between you and the dog. And it's very effective. There have been cases of peoples teeth being knocked out from muzzle punches. So can you think back to what exactly you were doing with the dog prior to the muzzle punch?


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## CavePaws

I tend to disagree that all jumping up and hitting faces is muzzle punching/aggressive/distance increasing signal. It certainly could be, I had a boxer jump up and smack me in the face with his muzzle in redirected aggression. He had been wired up all class and his owner, a friend of mine, was training him around several dogs, he had already nipped at someone that day, but he was being good with me. I leaned over a bit to pet him, really dumb move on my part, and got smacked right in the face. It busted the inside of my lip.

But some dogs don't just jump up to smack you in the face to increase distance. I think a characteristic of young wolves that dogs retained is jumping up to poke the corners of mouths as puppies which often caused the elder wolf to regurgitate after a kill/meal...I kind of think it's a little hardwired in them and a wolf puppy is certainly not trying to increase distance between it's elder and itself. It wants food. With dogs when they are jumping up at you I think they want something, but a lot of the times getting hit in the face by a dog does not mean they want you to get away...Maybe you want to get away, but a lot of them will just follow you and keep jumping up and smacking your face. 

She didn't say specifically how the dog hit her in the face, and without being there to witness it and see what lead up to it I don't think you could tell if it was a muzzle punch.
But a muzzle punch is possible. The dog could have been excited to see her getting down on it's level as well. I know my dogs start acting silly when I'm knelt down. They don't muzzle punch me though.


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## schtuffy

Ugh, my friend's dog muzzle punched me a couple weeks ago and gave me a bloody lip!

What about jumping during feeding time? From the day we got Louis we make him sit/lie down or do something else before we serve him food. After switching to raw, he got worse. If I'm cutting up meat or taking his meat out of the fridge, he starts going crazy...jumping and dancing. We have tried ignoring him or turning it into sit/stay, but then he just ends up spazing and jumping again. I really worry about his hips and knees for when he gets older. He's like Tigger with a built in spring or something...


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## DaneMama

In this case, the fact the dog gave her a nasty bloody nose...I bet it was a muzzle punch. The way she describes the dog "rocketing" into her face makes it sound like a muzzle punch. There is a chance that it was just an exuberant hello but in my experience with dogs jumping up on people is that they usually go feet first when they really want attention. When they shoot up head first, I believe that is communicating the dog doesn't really want you that close or doing that particular thing. There are dogs who don't have good communication skills though, so jumping up head first to these dogs may mean they want attention. 

Like you said it's hard to say not seeing it first hand. But I think it's important for people who work with dogs know what a muzzle punch is...a lot of people have no clue what a muzzle punch is and what it means.


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## DaneMama

Schtuffy- maybe when you're preparing food put him in his crate? Only feed him when he's calm and collected. Granted this may take a lot of time! 

I always make the dogs go out of the kitchen and wait. Which means laying or sitting on their beds in the living room. Once meat is ready to be served I do a group call into the kitchen. Then a sit and wait for food. This means I hold the meat in front of their face and tell them to wait. If they lunge to get to it or move towards it my hand moves back. Not until the meat is nearly touching their nose do I release the wait and give it to them.


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## CavePaws

My dog has given me a busted lip jumping up to get to my face...I guess you interpreted the rocketing up as having a different meaning than I did when I read how it went down. It is really important for people to know how dogs communicate and the body language they exhibit. I'm just saying that not all jumping up into the face is muzzle punching, some of it is over excited attention seeking behavior. Obviously there is a clear difference between the two and they both happen. I would want to have been able to see the incident to be able to really tell...A tail wagging in a stiff elevated manner and a tail wagging in a helicopter motion mean completely different things, there are so many little details that go into an incident like that. I consider muzzle punches aggressive...That's why I think you need to be there to see it or hear more before saying it's definitely a muzzle punch. People do need to know what muzzle punching is, though...


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## DaneMama

I don't think a muzzle punch is aggression all by itself. It depends on the context. Was the dog giving other polite signals before the muzzle punch that the handler didn't pick up on or notice (either out of ignorance or just not watching the dog)? A very polite and well behaved dog may resort to using a muzzle punch when their earlier attempts at communicating fell on untrained eyes. Of course some dogs just go right ahead with the muzzle punch before giving other signals politely but that is more of a behavioral issue, not true aggression. 

"It all depends" is such a overused phrase in dog behavior and training because every dog is slightly different as well as the context.


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## CavePaws

Overused as in it has to be said a lot? It does all depend on the context, individual, and the behavior leading up to the event...That is what I have been getting at...
If I were to view muzzle punching as a distance increasing behavior I would think that it is in a way aggressive to resort to jumping up and nailing me in the face hard enough to bust a lip. That's the way I see it. There are plenty of other ways to get my attention, including vocalization, it doesn't have to be physical. If you put yourself in a dogs position as best you could, how would you view being punched by the muzzle of another dog? Especially going towards the face.


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## luvMyBRT

I agree that there can be varying intensities when it comes to muzzle punching. There is a big difference between an actual "muzzle punch" and a muzzle poke....and the actual context and the dogs behavior plays a big role in distinguishing the two. For the most part I would think that a muzzle punch of any kind towards a dogs handler would be considered rude and bad behavior. Muzzle punches can be seen in aggressive, pushy, dominant and rank dogs. A muzzle punch directly to the face would be seen as an aggressive act, imo.


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## DaneMama

Yes, "it all depends" is used in almost every conversation about dog behavior LOL...you and I have said it numerous times in this thread alone! 

I definitely think muzzle punching is more of an aggressive communication technique but I do not think it defines a dog as being aggressive.

Either way, any form of muzzle punching, even a poke, is not a good sign from a dog. A lot of the time it is the fault of the handler not understanding more subtle cues from the dog. It's rude, pushy or just plain mean from a dog depending on the context.


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## CavePaws

Lol, I agree on that one Danemama. It is used a lot because there are just so many variables! 

I don't think it classifies a dog as being aggressive either. :redface: I think it can be classified as aggressive behavior. Aggression in itself is such a complex behavior it's really hard to just slap one specific kind or category of it on some dogs. Lots of behaviors caused by lots of different things can cause aggression. That doesn't mean the animal inherently wants to do harm, they may in fact be seeking to increase distance, like you said. I agree though, the dog that did knock me a good one was a nervy, "dominant" type personality. It was my fault for leaning over him, though, so he is not to blame necessarily. There were red flags all over the place telling me not to, I was just being human.

I do agree it's really rude to have a dog jump up and hit you in the face if it's a muzzle punch or just an overly enthusiastic attempt to get attention from someone who is ignoring them completely. I know Indi has busted my lip before jumping to get to my face, I considered that rude and totally unacceptable.

We should definitely pay attention to the signals leading up to a muzzle punch, if we did so a lot of injury could be avoided.


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## SilverBeat

DaneMama said:


> While that method is effective for some dogs, I think it would encourage others to jump up still. It also means that YOU are accommodating the dog, which isn't necessarily ideal. It also doesn't teach the dog not to jump up on people who are standing upright.
> 
> Also, what were you doing when that lab rocketed up into your face? Because that maneuver is a pretty intense distance increasing signal a dog gives to someone. It's called a muzzle punch and it is NOT a friendly thing, even if the dog is acting excited. A muzzle punch is meant for one thing and one thing only...to INCREASE the distance between you and the dog. And it's very effective. There have been cases of peoples teeth being knocked out from muzzle punches. So can you think back to what exactly you were doing with the dog prior to the muzzle punch?


Buster didn't muzzle punch me, the incident I talked about happened when I was leaning over to untangle his leash from around his legs. He didn't know I was there [or at least, didn't know my head was there] and jumped straight up into the air, as he often does at random intervals. It was an accident, the top of his skull hit my nose. 

Edited to add: Prior to that we were just on a normal walk.

Also I agree that to some dogs it can encourage jumping up more often. I've tried it with several dogs and it is true for some of them, whether or not they are regularly "jumpy." I usually don't stay crouched for the entire training, but rather just the first couple of minutes, to get them focused on me. After that I train from a standing position, and I can't remember the last time one of them [KC, Buster or Wallaby--the three dogs who do best with this kind of training] jumped on me during training. They are often jumpy outside of training, but once I get their attention by crouching with them, I can usually hold it for however long the training lasts. I should've elaborated more but I was on my way out the door.


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## DaneMama

Well, I know this is going to sound wrong but that's good! If he had hit you in the face with his muzzle then he was being unacceptable...but in this case he was just being a big galoof! Sorry you got a bloody nose. 

Although I will say that I'm glad we discussed muzzle punching so that who ever reads this thread can learn, if they didn't know already :thumb:


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## SilverBeat

DaneMama said:


> Well, I know this is going to sound wrong but that's good! If he had hit you in the face with his muzzle then he was being unacceptable...but in this case he was just being a big galoof! Sorry you got a bloody nose.
> 
> Although I will say that I'm glad we discussed muzzle punching so that who ever reads this thread can learn, if they didn't know already :thumb:


LOL... yeah. I walked into the rescue with him in tow, blood oozing out of my face with the exact same attitude... "he's a good dog, he's a good boy, it was just a silly accident...!" He is just a big bouncy boy.
To be honest I had heard people throw around that term but didn't know it was an aggressive/unacceptable action, I just thought it was when a dog shoved his face into a person or another dog's face.


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## CavePaws

Me too! A lot of people probably think of muzzle punching as an accident or harmless jumping up. But it can be a giant red flag and if a muzzle punch is ignored then what's the next step of action for the dog to take? Probably something involving teeth! Not fun for anyone in that situation.

That's kind of what I was thinking happened Silverbeat...It's happened to me before with our dogs on walks and it hurts. I wouldn't say he didn't know you were there, maybe he was just being careless.  My labby dogs are very careless at times when they are excited. Especially our girl Paris, she has springs for feet and is the perfect example of a ditsy dog when overly excited, I think she is either very unaware of her body of just extremely careless!


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## jiml

Whenever I had a dog that would jump up I would just cross my arms and turn my back to them. Totally ignore them. Every time they jumped up all they got was my back to them. Worked great.>>>>

Just note that I have lost some shirts and pants w this method. Rips to the back of my pants/shirts w puppies.


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## doggiedad

1>>>> you've taught her to jump up. you have to teach her
not to jump on strangers.

2>>>> why can't you tell everyone that you come in
contact with how to deal with her? telling everyone
you come in contact with how to deal with her when
she jumps up is excellent training.

i think you should get a shorter leash so she 
can't jump up. you could also ribbon fold
your leash to make it shorter and she won't
be able to jump up. you can slide your hand
down the leash and hold her closer to her collar
when she's meeting people.



MadPets said:


> 1>>>> She no longer jumps up to me unless I tell to to come "UP" and pat my chest.
> 
> 2>>>> I know dogs need consistency when being trained but it's impossible to tell everyone i come into contact with how to deal with her, especially strangers who's dogs she runs and plays with.


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## CavePaws

Teaching your dog to jump up isn't necessarily encouraging of the behavior she is witnessing, since the behavior she is witnessing is not on cue. You can teach a behavior then teach a completely incompatible behavior to that like an auto-sit on greetings. That is just my way of viewing it. If she _doesn't _spend _a whole lot_ of time rewarding the jumping up on cue it's not likely to cause the dog to continue jumping up when she isn't asking for it. Lavishing your dog with treats and praise when they are sitting at any given moment might be a great way to increase the behavior of sitting. If your dog thinks they are going to receive something or associates sitting with something pleasureful then they will be more apt to sit when offering behaviors for whatever it is they want - food, attention, toys.

It is learning theory applied to dogs. Any behavior you reward is likely to increase.

A shorter leash won't help her any. There will be tension on the leash and there is something we call opposition reflex in the doggy world. Whenever a dog feels tension on the leash pulling up it is likely to want to pull forward or in the opposite direction. A shorter leash usually = some form of tension. She doesn't want to have to have tension on the leash when walking to show her dog that jumping up is bad. She can just as easily correct her dog or stop it from jumping up with a long leash as she could with a short one...Provided it is not a retractable leash! Then you really do need to use a different/shorter leash. But if she uses a short leash all the time, how will she be able to loose leash walk her dog and trust it to not jump if it has always felt tension on the leash? 

I do think it is important not to let anyone reward your dog for the jumping up. That does mean telling people not to pet her until she is sitting. They don't like it? Tough, they don't pet the dog. :/ Sorry but dogs don't ever really learn a new behavior well when they get away with jumping up sometimes and other times are corrected or not allowed to jump. I personally know what it is like to be telling people "No, you cannot pet my dog" It can be hard but you get used to it. I don't let strange children pet Indi unless she is in a controlled, relaxed state. I have had a lot of kids and adults ask me to pet my dogs, unless they are willing to let the dog come up to them to sniff first I usually ask them not to pet - I want to make sure my dog is comfortable. Managing the way people interact with your dog is entirely on you, if someone rudely comes barging up to pet your dog, tell them they are nervous of people or something. Or tell them the truth, "my dog will rake your face and I'm trying to teach them not to, could you please wait a second for me to get her/him under control?" you can say it in a nice manner...Just be assertive. More people in this world need to know that they can't just run up to any dog and pet them.


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## luvMyBRT

jiml said:


> Whenever I had a dog that would jump up I would just cross my arms and turn my back to them. Totally ignore them. Every time they jumped up all they got was my back to them. Worked great.>>>>
> 
> Just note that I have lost some shirts and pants w this method. Rips to the back of my pants/shirts w puppies.


Well, if that's the case you should of used the method that Natalie suggested which is turning your back and then walking away into another room and closing the door. Of course, I'm not going to stand there and let the dog/puppy rip up the back of my clothing....that's when I would take it a step further and do what Natalie said. With some dogs just the cross of the arms and the turn of the back is enough to get them thinking.....


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## MadPets

doggiedad said:


> 1>>>> you've taught her to jump up. you have to teach her
> not to jump on strangers.


She was already a jumper when we got her from the shelter, I didn't teach her to jump up. I was trying to teach her that when she followed a command and jumped up it was a good thing and when she jumped up without being told it was a bad thing. The problem was that 99% of the people she jumped up at without a command made a fuss of her when she did it, which confused the training. I now discourage any kind of jumping at people and no longer give her that command.

She only jumps up when she's playing with another dog off the lead, or when visitors come to the house. She never jumps up when she is on the lead because she just ignores people. I'm going to use some of the advice I've been given and ask a few friends to come to the house so we can try out the techniques. I'm not sure how we'll cope out on walks. It's as if when she loses all sense of discipline when she's with another dog. She goes from well behaved to just plain silly.

I don't know if this is important but when she jumps up she licks peoples faces. If she can't get to their face then she'll lick their hands excessively. Is this a sign of an overly submissive dog?


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## CavePaws

Then keep her on a leash when she see's a dog so it is easier to correct her. You can teach a command to settle on leash, transfer it to off leash, and use it when she becomes overly excited about another dog...A trick is to be more rewarding than getting to play with a dog, use extremely high value treats or a toy...Your dog wants to play, get her playing with you. Use Wait, Stay, or a Bed stay to get her having more impulse control with visitors...You're going to have to modify the way you do things for a while to get her not jumping up on visitors. But the amount of time you spend on that will pay off in the end, right? You will have a good life long behavior you are happy with when you are done...Rather than one you dread and feel the need to fix.

I think the licking is attention seeking behavior, more than just plain overly submissive behavior.


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## schtuffy

Just wanted to say, I tried teaching Louis a 'wait' command when raw meal times rolled around. It only took about 3-4 tries before he got the message. By the next day I could already dangle the meat in front of him with his butt glued to the floor (he did have random twitches and spasms as he tried to control himself from lunging at it, LOL!) I guess I was just going about it all wrong. We were using the 'stay' command he already knew and I think that confused him. Now that we introduced a new and separate command, it's working great! He is still jumping at other things when he gets excited, but this was the first hurdle and we passed :biggrin: Thanks!


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## CavePaws

Aren't they so quick to pick things up? :] Dogs are such awesome creatures to live with and train. Sometimes I think they're secretly trying to train us though. 

He may have been confused by the stay command...When I think of a difference between Stay and Wait, Stay usually means you will be staying a while and Wait means you're waiting a minute. :]
The main difference my dogs seem to see in it is the body position, for wait I let them stand/lie down/sit but not move from the spot. Stay I expect them to hold the position, normally it is a down if it is more than 3 min.


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## doggiedad

with a short leash you can control the jumping. the second
the dog gathers himself to jump you can correct it. once the dog
knows how to heel there's no tension on the leash.

i'm not opposed to a dog jumping up as long as it's
on command.



CavePaws said:


> A shorter leash won't help her any. There will be tension on the leash and there is something we call opposition reflex in the doggy world. Whenever a dog feels tension on the leash pulling up it is likely to want to pull forward or in the opposite direction. A shorter leash usually = some form of tension. She doesn't want to have to have tension on the leash when walking to show her dog that jumping up is bad. She can just as easily correct her dog or stop it from jumping up with a long leash as she could with a short one...Provided it is not a retractable leash! Then you really do need to use a different/shorter leash. But if she uses a short leash all the time, how will she be able to loose leash walk her dog and trust it to not jump if it has always felt tension on the leash?


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## CavePaws

With a long leash you can just as easily correct. The second the dog gathers itself to jump, gather in the leash as if it were shorter....You can use the sliding your hand up the leash method if you have some of the slack gathered in one hand.

How is the dog going to learn how to heel PROPERLY with tension in the leash? I'd challenge a lot of people's version of proper if they are using a short leash to "heel". For the sake of the dogs sanity as well as your own, I'd prefer a loose leash walk over a heel on most walks. A heel is useful in situations where there are tight quarters, something you don't want your dog around, or you are in a formal situation...But there is virtually no need at all to make your dog heel the entire time on a one hour walk...How many dogs are going to really enjoy that walk? I assure you staring at your face while walking forward right at your side for an hour is not nearly as mentally stimulating (in a pleasureful way) as walking on a loose leash. Both of you are going to have fried brains by the end of that hour. The purpose of loose leash walking is to eventually get a dog who self corrects or manages to regain slack within the leash when they feel tension in it. You don't want to be nagging your dog to walk with you all the time, what fun is that in a walk? Pretty soon you'll be dreading taking the dog out for what could be a leisurely stroll. When walking on a short leash there is almost always going to be some form of unnecessary tension. There is ABSOLUTELY no place for a short leash when teaching heeling...There simply isn't a need for it. Want to really teach your dog how to heel? Take the seat belt off - Oops, I mean leash. ;] I would much rather teach a dog to heel off leash if it's possible with that particular dog. A leash is a safety belt, think of it as so and no more. The leash is a tool at your disposal but don't make it your crutch, it will just end up crippling you if you do.


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## doggiedad

the short leash is for training sessions. i found teachiing my dog to heel usuing
a short leash was very helpfull. with the short leash it was easy to keep my
dog in a heel position. i used the sliding hand method a lot also. i also had the
leash go around my back. the leash was in my right hand. it went behind my back (to the left)
to the collar.



CavePaws said:


> With a long leash you can just as easily correct. The second the dog gathers itself to jump, gather in the leash as if it were shorter....You can use the sliding your hand up the leash method if you have some of the slack gathered in one hand.
> 
> How is the dog going to learn how to heel PROPERLY with tension in the leash? I'd challenge a lot of people's version of proper if they are using a short leash to "heel". For the sake of the dogs sanity as well as your own, I'd prefer a loose leash walk over a heel on most walks. A heel is useful in situations where there are tight quarters, something you don't want your dog around, or you are in a formal situation...But there is virtually no need at all to make your dog heel the entire time on a one hour walk...How many dogs are going to really enjoy that walk? I assure you staring at your face while walking forward right at your side for an hour is not nearly as mentally stimulating (in a pleasureful way) as walking on a loose leash. Both of you are going to have fried brains by the end of that hour. The purpose of loose leash walking is to eventually get a dog who self corrects or manages to regain slack within the leash when they feel tension in it. You don't want to be nagging your dog to walk with you all the time, what fun is that in a walk? Pretty soon you'll be dreading taking the dog out for what could be a leisurely stroll. When walking on a short leash there is almost always going to be some form of unnecessary tension. There is ABSOLUTELY no place for a short leash when teaching heeling...There simply isn't a need for it. Want to really teach your dog how to heel? Take the seat belt off - Oops, I mean leash. ;] I would much rather teach a dog to heel off leash if it's possible with that particular dog. A leash is a safety belt, think of it as so and no more. The leash is a tool at your disposal but don't make it your crutch, it will just end up crippling you if you do.


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## RawFedDogs

doggiedad said:


> the short leash is for training sessions. i found teachiing my dog to heel usuing
> a short leash was very helpfull.


I have found it's almost impossible. You need more leash in order to keep the dog from pulling against the tension. About the only way to teach heeling with a short leash is to use A LOT of leash corrections which is old outdated training methods.



> with the short leash it was easy to keep my dog in a heel position.


The way you are talking about, you have to forceably keep him in position. Not good training methods.



> i used the sliding hand method a lot also. i also had the leash go around my back. the leash was in my right hand. it went behind my back (to the left) to the collar.


Again, all these are methods of using coersion to force your dog to perform the behavior you desire. There are several positive methods you could use to accomplish the same goal faster. You are forcing, not teaching.


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## CavePaws

RFD summed up what I would have said. Those are indeed old outdated methods, they are compulsively based. If your dog does not know how to heel, you should teach it how to heel instead of jerking your dogs neck around.

The point of what I'm saying is that when you are doing this you are showing your dog what it is doing wrong but not giving him any chance at all to get it right or even showing him how to get it right. How would you like it if someone put you on a short leash and yanked you about while you tried to figure out what in the world they wanted? Not fun for anyone in that situation. Those methods tend to add a negative vibe into the way the owner is interacting with their dog. When people use compulsive methods to teach heeling at some point in the training session there is usually a moment where the trainer becomes burnt out and ends the session on a negative note because they haven't accomplished much in way of teaching their dog the new behavior of heeling and are constantly correcting the dog. As I said, in my book there is no place for teaching heeling on a short leash, that includes all the training sessions you would go through with your dog to achieve such a behavior. You'll get a dog heeling much faster by showing them how to do it rather than constantly correcting them. Long leash or no leash, it can be done with positive methods that do not involve jerking your dogs neck.


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## luvMyBRT

When Duncan and I are at home training (or in a safe secure area) I don't even use a leash. I started to teach the heel position with him just sitting at my side in the correct position (his shoulder lined up with my leg). He gets a click/treat for being in the correct position every time. There is no walking at all involved while teaching this. I stand and he is supposed to find the correct "heel" position at my side and then sit...when he does click/treat. I move a step forward or backward and he once again is to find the correct heel position at my side...when he does click/treat. 

Only when he figured out what the correct heel position was did I start to walk. Since he knows what the correct heel position is and he knows where the "treat zone" is he obviously wants to stay in that zone....so right off the bat he is doing a great loose leash walk at my side while looking up seeing if he is doing right....and he is so click/treat.

Duncan is a 90 pound puppy full of energy. He can be quite a handful at times....but I have NEVER felt the need to give him a leash correction. If he looses focus we do some focus exercises which are nothing but positive reinforcement. Where ever we are any time he looks up and focuses on me he gets a click/treat. This is the best way (imo) to get your dog focusing on you and with Duncan it works great. I would much rather have him working for me out of love and respect rather than out of fear hoping he doesn't get a nasty jerk here and there.


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## RawFedDogs

luvMyBRT said:


> When Duncan and I are at home training (or in a safe secure area) I don't even use a leash.


I love that! So few trainers know that you don't need a leash to train a dog. I trained like this for the last 4 or 5 years of my training career.


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## CavePaws

I'm a fan of that method as well. Its ten times easier to transfer the behavior to on leash than off leash.


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## doggiedad

short leash, a leash folded down, the leash behind your back, sliding your hand
down the leash makes a short leash. this tension your talking about i guess i don't understaand
it. the dog pulls on a short leash or a longer leash untill it's trained. i also thought
i was light handed in training my dog. i didn't feel like there was coerosion. all i know is
i used all of the aforemention mehtods. my dog heels on either side with
or without a leash. if i say "other side" my dog switches sides and continues to heel.
when my dog switches sides he let's me get a step in front of him and then
he passes behind me to the other side. if he's on the right he goes left
and if he's on the left he goes right. 

i didn't think i was forcing by usuing a short leash. i thought
i wasn't allowing a situation to happen.



RawFedDogs said:


> I have found it's almost impossible. You need more leash in order to keep the dog from pulling against the tension. About the only way to teach heeling with a short leash is to use A LOT of leash corrections which is old outdated training methods.
> 
> 
> 
> The way you are talking about, you have to forceably keep him in position. Not good training methods.
> 
> 
> 
> Again, all these are methods of using coersion to force your dog to perform the behavior you desire. There are several positive methods you could use to accomplish the same goal faster. You are forcing, not teaching.


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## CavePaws

All I have to say is I stand by my opinion. Obviously we disagree. But that is okay, not everyone can agree all the time.


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