# Expecting puppy next week!



## Sammy_G (Sep 22, 2016)

We will be welcoming a spoo puppy (9 weeks old) next week and, I think, I'm more nervous than I was with my 1st child. 
I'm a kind of person who does a research on everything before buying, so obviously I researched dog nutrition as well. RMB seem like an obvious choice given so many benefits, but when we told our many dog friends our plans during barbecue they looked at us as if we have served them grilled grasshoppers instead of rib eyes . 
Anyway, despite lack of friends/family support we are quite firm, I can't wait to see our neighbors peeking at my dog devouring a nasty looking piece of meat :heh:

I want to try to be perfect from the very beginning (even knowing there is no such thing), so, here's my plan. 
The breeder is feeding a combination of kibble and Blue Ridge puppy mix. I would prefer her to feed just meat, but that's better than feeding kibble only as we've seen other breeders we visited do.
Even though I don't think I will be feeding ground meat in the long term, I plan to stock up on same puppy mix enough for 1-2 weeks.

1st week: While we house/potty train the puppy and to make a transition easier we plan to give him the puppy mix exclusively since he is already used to it: the mix contains chicken bones (not sure what's the percentage), we will monitor his stool, if it's too liquidy will add a few chicken neck bones. Plan to feed 3 times / day. If he is doing OK we may start 2nd week planning earlier.

2nd week: introduce chicken backs or quarters or drumsticks by supplementing some of the puppy mix with chicken, move to chicken exclusively by end of the week.

3rd week: stay on chicken exclusively, continue stool monitoring and adding/removing bones as needed.

4th week: introduce turkey, stay on turkey exclusively for 2-3 days, then mix with chicken (not in the same meal).

5th week: introduce pork, stay on pork exclusively for 2-3 days, then mix with chicken / turkey (not in the same meal).

6th week: introduce beef, stay on beef exclusively for 3-4 days, then mix with chicken / turkey / pork (not in the same meal).

7th week: continue with chicken / turkey / pork / beef.

8th week: introduce fish - small oily pieces, continue with chicken / turkey / pork / beef.

9th week: continue with chicken / turkey / pork / beef adding occasional fish.

Assuming all goes well will add a very small amount of liver, slowly increasing it.
Adding a little bit of other organs.
Will try to maintain 80-10-10 ratio, though the ratio may change depending on his stool.

Please feel free to comment.

Questions: 
1. Breeder said that the dog is on smaller side so his adult weight will be about 40 lb. 2%-3% of that is around 13 oz - 19 oz. For a puppy we should probably be closer to 3%, correct? If so, then his meal should be about 6 oz (3 times a day). It's not easy to cut chicken quarters into 6 oz portions 
2. What about dog treats? All trainers suggest giving small food pieces for potty training and commands. Should these treats be counted toward daily meal allowance? What about something like bully sticks or pig ears?
3. A friend gave us a Kong toy, it is usually filled with a biscuit. I'm not sure I want to give a biscuit. what can I use? 

This is a great forum! I've learned so much and still do...


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

It sounds like you are going to be feeding chicken for too long. If it were me, I would skip the ground, and considering your puppies size, just go ahead with little drummies, or wings. If you think full size drumsticks will for your puppies size, they are fine too. After about a week and a half, if all is going well move on to turkey and do the same. Then pork, and other red meats. Small amounts of organs can be included, like beef liver somewhere in the middle if all seems to be going well. If you seem to be working digestive issues during the transition through proteins, then hold off on the organs for a bit until things straighten out.

And by the way, welcome!


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

I agree with naturalfeddogs, I don't take that long to switch an adult dog and puppies normally take to raw feeding with no problems at all. I'd personally just go to raw immediately the day you get him. It would be a lot easier on you, for sure.

You won't do a chicken quarter, but you could do a chicken neck or a chicken or duck foot with some chicken or turkey hearts. My small dogs love duck heads and duck necks, also. I honestly don't know anyone who had trouble switching a puppy; I think their fresh digestive systems don't have bad habits that make it sometimes a slower process for older dogs. 

If I think a dog might have trouble eating something bony, I take a sledgehammer and smash it up, either totally smushed or smushed enough that they have to do some work to eat it, depending. I'd do that before I fed grinds. 

I would think if your puppy isn't getting fat the treats could be in addition to his food but it might be they would have to be part of the daily allowance; I think the puppy's condition will tell you what to do. 

I'm very excited for you!


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## Herzo (Feb 5, 2011)

Welcome to the forum and congrats on your new puppy. I agree with both above. Same as xellil I have never switched a puppy but also have heard it is easier to switch than an old dog and I've never had any problems doing that. And I also don't see any reason when you start the turkey that you would want to stay on it for 2-3 days. I would feed the turkey then next meal go back to chicken then back to turkey. The same with the pork...pork, turkey, chicken, turkey, pork, chicken....same with the beef. I don't see any reason to keep them on one protein for 2 or 3 days. Change it up.


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## Spy Car (Apr 16, 2015)

The main reason for adding one protein at a time is to see if a pup/dog has an allergy or intolerance.

If the pup been doing fine on the preground mix with chicken and beef, then neither of those is a concern, so I wouldn't withdraw either. 

No need to go "all chicken" (which makes it easy to overdo bone). Chicken backs especially are very bone heavy. There is no need to do "exclusive" on a protein, and it is probabaly a good way to cause loose stools (or worse) for lack of bone in things like all beef meals. 

Better IMO to use chicken pieces to get the bone and add other meats to get you to PMR ratios. Meals that are close to PMR rations are going to keep stools and digestion better than boneless meals interspersed with bone heavy meals.

I would add liver and other organs in small quanties early. Pups need the nutrients and pups that get used to eating organs early generally do not develop aversions to them. My Vizsla (raw from puppihood) always eats his organs (served daily) first. Too often dogs who get organs late get picky about eating them. 

I'd rethink this plan a little.

For treats drying your own meat/organs is the best route for training treats. When the treats (commercial) are less good that what's in the bowl, they cease being high-value. KWIM?

The good news it pups generally take really well to raw. And it is the best thing you can do for a little one.

Best wishes

Bill


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## Sammy_G (Sep 22, 2016)

Thanks a lot, everyone!
I'll revise the plan based on suggestions. I've researched a ton of sites that offer advice on raw feeding and one of the main suggestion was, as Spy Car said, is to gradually introduce new protein and stay on it for a few days to make sure 1) there is no allergy and 2) dog adjusts to new protein well (normal stool). I agree that puppies are easier to switch especially when he is already on puppy mix. My main concern in the beginning is to potty train him with familiar meal that does not cause diarrhea, so I will be introducing organs only after he is potty trained, hopefully it won't take long.
I found a good source for rabbits, when do you think a good idea to introduce rabbits? 
I'm both nervous and excited at the same time!


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

congrats on the new puppy and welcome to the forum.

the only reason to give bone heavy in the very very beginning is the help it gives for strengthening teeth, mouth muscles and jaw.
puppies are a breeze to transition.......i have a havana silk i brought home the end of july......
he was started on ground duck and then we went from there. 
he eats multiple proteins now........and is now eating chicken necks that are not smashed up for him. next will be duck necks 
he is fed three times a day.......from when we brought him home at 10 weeks....transition began immediately....

hs is now 4 1/2 months old.....and has eaten turkey, chicken, beef, bison, elk, venison, pork.....

healthy as a horse.....

good luck to you..if ever i had one piece of advice to impart.......breathe....


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## InkedMarie (Sep 9, 2011)

Congrats on your upcoming puppy!


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## Sammy_G (Sep 22, 2016)

Thanks! 
Shane has been with us since Saturday and he is doing great! Started on puppy mix and chicken necks, he loves chicken necks! We've been giving him puppy mix as praise and training treats: I defrosted a tube and made very small balls (pinky nail size) and froze them; quite tedious task, had to involve other family members. Now he gets is as potty training or training treat, he can already do sit, wait and fetch. I also filled a Kong with puppy mix a few times and froze it, he worked on it for quite some time 
Also added small chicken wings, drumsticks and thighs. Yesterday added turkey neck, had to smash it a few times with a mallet, there are a few hard bones he couldn't chew. Will stay on chicken / turkey for 2-3 days and move to ducks, then pork.
He gets 1-2 almost frozen chicken feet and dried green tripe sticks (don't have fresh one) a day as snacks and an egg every 2-3 days. 
His stool was a little hard yesterday (probably a little too much bone) so I'm adjusting his meals and introducing freeze dried liver as treats (cut in a very small pieces).

Question: should green tripe sticks be counted as part of the meal? If so, is it part of muscle meat?
Also, when can I give him a sardine or mackerel? After all other proteins are introduced or any time between?


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

green tripe falls into two camps.

some feel it is a miracle food and yes, it's considered muscle meat. it is the stomach lining

for others, it's a side dish....

this is what i do....although i've not heard of dried tripe sticks......

sounds like transition is going very well.....when you get to red meat, intro it very slowly for it can be rich........and once he's fully transitioned, he should mostly eat red meat, fat, bone, and occasional organs


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

I consider tripe to be a side dish, and a few times a week along with a meal is fine. You could feed it as a snack as well, just to help keep something in the tummy. 

You can intro fish anytime really, but unless its a wild caught oily type, it's pretty useless IMO. Mine haven't ever had fish at all because I don't have access to quality oily wild caught anything. And, you have to be careful of where its caught as well. Pacific Northwest is a no no due to possible salmon poisoning. There are much better proteins to feed, and just stick with fish oil supplements.


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## Sammy_G (Sep 22, 2016)

This is where I get green tripe sticks.

www bestbullysticks.com / green-tripe-sticks-for-dogs

Another question.
I signed Shane up for a puppy kindergarten class. Trainer said not to feed him in the morning and instead bring his kibbles as training treats to class (which is on 9 am). 
His 1st meal is at 7 am. I told her that he is on raw meat and we don't use kibble, off course we can't bring that to the class 
So what do you, guys, suggest to use instead?
I was thinking boiling chicken breast and cut it to treat size pieces.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

Sammy_G said:


> This is where I get green tripe sticks.
> 
> www bestbullysticks.com / green-tripe-sticks-for-dogs
> 
> ...


you can get dehydrated lung or liver or little bites of one ingredient treats. doesn't have to be kibble.

read the ingredients on the back of the bag. make sure there is nothing more than one ingredient and it's not smoked.

and it won't hurt him to miss that first meal, as he will be getting treats......


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

You can dehydrate your own boneless meats as treats as well.


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## Spy Car (Apr 16, 2015)

Congratulations on the puppy!

For training treats, the best thing IMO is to dry your own meats and organs. You don't want to deal with raw (or even cooked) meat in a class (or other training session). And offering a dog wh is eating raw a bit of kibble or cookie isn't much of a training incentive, if you know what I mean.

One can often score used dehydrators cheap, or even use a very low oven. There are commercial dried treats, but they get pricey.

In a pinch there are packages of string cheese aimed at kid's school lunches (about finger sized) that work as treats (assuming the pup is fine with dairy).

Oily fish, like sardines, mackerel, herring, and anchovies are great sources of Omega 3s and can be added anytime. Just space out feedings (not daily) as most of the best fish has a substance that can block niacin if fed in quantity on a daily basis. Otherwise, great!

I've never seen those green tripe sticks. I tend to feed a fair amount of green tripe. My dog loves it. I think it tends to be over-hyped, but it does have a very balanced calciumhosphorus profile. It is a great use of a part that might otherwise be discarded by meat packers, and ought to be economical. When green tripe becomes a boutique item with a hyped-up price tag, I'd balk. But when well priced, green tripe is in my rotation.

I'm a fan of starting organs early and often (just in small an increasing amounts building to PMR ratios) as opposed to waiting until after some transition to introduce them. Too vital to wait nutritionally, and pups that eat organs generally love organs for life, while dogs introduced late are often fussy about eating them. 

Have fun!

Bill


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## Sammy_G (Sep 22, 2016)

Thanks!
Any recommendations on a dehydrator model? Looks like Excalibur models are ones of the best, but expensive.

As for organs, I've been giving him freeze dried liver pieces as praising treats for doing his business outside and for some training.
Does it constitute as introduction to liver?


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## Sammy_G (Sep 22, 2016)

Another question I have is what do you recommend for fleas & tick prevention (I understand, this is might not be the right forum to ask).
We have plenty of deer in the backyard and in the wood area.
Not a fan giving medications (as vet suggested) due to lots of side effects.

What do you think of combination of coconut oil and Brewers Yeast powder?
I've read a lot of people use it as a prevention method.

The link below is a recipe for treat which is a combination of coconut oil and Brewers Yeast powder: now it's a right place to ask since it's a treat 

www. healthstartsinthekitchen.com /recipe/homemade-flea-prevention-dog-treats-2-ingredient-grain-free/?utm_campaign=shareaholic&utm_medium=facebook&utm_source=socialnetwork

Also suggested neem oil, Pet Protector, Wondercide Natural and Diatomaceous earth.


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

I use Wondercide with great results. Wondercide Natural Products | As Seen on Shark Tank! | Natural Products for Pets, People and Property


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## Spy Car (Apr 16, 2015)

Sammy_G said:


> Thanks!
> Any recommendations on a dehydrator model? Looks like Excalibur models are ones of the best, but expensive.
> 
> As for organs, I've been giving him freeze dried liver pieces as praising treats for doing his business outside and for some training.
> Does it constitute as introduction to liver?


Yes, dehydrated liver counts as an introduction to liver. Excaliburs are pricey. I was looking for a used one when I discovered our Convection Toaster oven would do the job. I freeze the dehydrated treats anyway.

I do know the round ones (Norelco?) can often be found used or in thrifts for about $10. May not be as great a de-hydrator as the Excalibur, but we're talking training treats.

Bill


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

Ours is an Oster dehydrator.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

You can also dehydrate without a dehydrator. Just put thinly sliced meat or organs on a cookie sheet and put it in the oven at about 150-200. Move the meat around and drain off as needed. Make sure it's completely dry before you pull it out. I'm way too lazy to do that so I buy dehydrated treats, but I know a couple of people who do it.


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## Allykat289 (Sep 28, 2016)

I'm still super new so the only piece of info I can give you is about the dehydrator. I just bought one on groupon for 60% off. I haven't used it yet but it got great reviews!!!


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

naturalfeddogs said:


> I use Wondercide with great results. Wondercide Natural Products | As Seen on Shark Tank! | Natural Products for Pets, People and Property


we use wondercide here, as well, both on the lawn and on the dogs....

we do start organs early, so the dog develops a taste for organs; however, we do not feed organs as often as many others.....


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