# beginner woes - please help



## minnieme (Jul 6, 2011)

Hi all,

I'm sure there are a ton of you here you also subscribe to the Yahoo Group "rawfeeding," so pardon the overlap. I searched out this forum because although that group was giving stellar advice, it takes so dang long to get anything posted... and I feel like this is a pressing matter. I hope this forum can serve up advice a bit quicker.

My Great Dane Minnie has been on raw for a week come tomorrow. She has not had a solid poop once. She has not pooped in the house, but when she gets outside she has extremely watery "cannon butt" (typically once a day). Sorry to be gross, but there's a lot of ...farts...and straining.... and like a 1/4 - 1/2 of a cup of "poo" if you can even call it that as it's pretty much pure liquid -- which is also typically yellow to brown in color.

The first day I saw this I felt awful. She had been eating bone in chicken breasts and I thought it was all my fault for giving her something too fatty or not enough bone. So I skinned everything. Aside from the day she has gotten bone-in chicken breasts or whole chickens sliced up or chicken leg quarters. All with the fat off. Still, no help. Someone on the other forum suggested slippery elm after I frantically wrote about her puking (which I now believe was a "hunger puke"). That seemed to help the nausea and upset stomach and since then she has not puked. Even then, it was mostly yellow with bits of bone -- I can only assume this was bile -- and since it was ten hours after her previous meal, I assume it was likely a hunger puke (at least seems so from what I've read).

I talked to my vet today who THANK HEAVENS is pro-raw. He suggested a 24 hour fast and to re-try tomorrow. Can anybody else give me any other advice? Am I doing something wrong? One reader on the other forum commented on how little food I was giving her -- I was giving her about a pound and a half as she is only 103 lbs and I have always been told to start off on the low side when first starting. She is a year and 8 months, so I understand that she is still doing some growing so YES, I was going to be feeding her more but I was leery at first since she has had such projectile poops. 

Basically, what I'm asking is: can someone please help me with how to proceed? I feel SO BAD. I got her from a rescue and she was already very much on the thin side and I hate to think of her being hungry. It breaks my heart, but I think the fast might be the best thing. Does anyone else have any tips on what we should have tomorrow when the fast is over? I have lots more chicken (NONE is enhanced; all is under 80 mg of sodium - with removed skin). I can feed her multiple meals a day if the consensus is that the current two is not enough.

Can someone please help? I feel like such a bad Mama.....   

Thanks,

Jill and Minnie the Great Dane


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## SilverBeat (Jan 16, 2011)

What you're experiencing is actually pretty normal for the first week. Some dogs take longer than others to transition. I'd fast her for 24 hours and then feed her ~1 lb of a bone-heavy, skinless chicken cut [a quarter or back]. The first few days you should be feeding about half of what you aim to feed, then increasing meal sizes slowly to the 2-3% [which is just a suggestion. Some dogs need only 1% while others need 4-5% or more] or whatever your target percentage is.


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

minnieme said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I'm sure there are a ton of you here you also subscribe to the Yahoo Group "rawfeeding," so pardon the overlap. I searched out this forum because although that group was giving stellar advice, it takes so dang long to get anything posted... and I feel like this is a pressing matter. I hope this forum can serve up advice a bit quicker.
> 
> ...


First, Welcome! I'm so happy you a pro raw vet! Thats hard to find! Second, Yes, I would fast for a day, then start back with chicken backs only, no skin. They seem to be the boniest of the cuts. There will be lots more great advice from others here, so just don't give up! Some dogs may take a tad longer to adjust than others, but WILL adjust.


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

Oh don't feel like a bad mama! You are a great mama for trying to do what is BEST for your Dane!

Here's what I would do if I were in you in your shoes. 
FAST for 24 hours. No food, no treats. 

Well, first, how much are you feeding? You'll want to cut it at least in half, if not more. She will probably drop a little weight, but that's OK. 
Once you've cut the overall amount in half, split it into two feedings per day. 
Bone HEAVY chicken only. More bone than meat. Strip ALL fat and skin off. 
Quarters are a great cut to start danes on if you can't find backs!
I wouldn't give any supplements at this stage in the game either. 

The transition can take some dogs a week, and some dogs MONTHS. That's ok, because they're all different. All that is important is that you take it slow, have some patience, and in the end, it really does pay off- I promise!

Don't ever hesitate to post up any questions you might have- we'd all love to help.


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## minnieme (Jul 6, 2011)

SilverBeat said:


> What you're experiencing is actually pretty normal for the first week. Some dogs take longer than others to transition. I'd fast her for 24 hours and then feed her ~1 lb of a bone-heavy, skinless chicken cut [a quarter or back]. The first few days you should be feeding about half of what you aim to feed, then increasing meal sizes slowly to the 2-3% [which is just a suggestion. Some dogs need only 1% while others need 4-5% or more] or whatever your target percentage is.


Thank you so much....this is what I had planned. It's very scary to feel like I'm doing something to hurt my "baby" so I really appreciate your quick advice. I hope if anyone else has experience or thoughts about this that they will chime in too. Need a big support group right now!

Soooo grateful,

Jill


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

minnieme said:


> Thank you so much....this is what I had planned. It's very scary to feel like I'm doing something to hurt my "baby" so I really appreciate your quick advice. I hope if anyone else has experience or thoughts about this that they will chime in too. Need a big support group right now!
> 
> Soooo grateful,
> 
> Jill


A support group you have!! Don't worry!


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

HI, i have collies and all of mine need bone heavy meals even after a year of raw feeding so I feel your pain. How old is your dog? I would definately fast for 24 hours, then feed bone heavy like chicken back, chicken quarter, frames. If you are cutting up a whole chicken wither have the breast meat yourself for dinner or freeze and save for later. I would give the rest to the dog. We petsit two danes who have very sensitive tummies (breed trait?) If you find a cut that works like quarters keep her on that til she is regular then start adding other parts of chicken until she is good with that. If it takes a month it's no big deal jsut go slow and let her adjust. Depending on your dog's age it sometimes takes a while for your dog to detox and get all the junk out of their system. Hope to hear about how it is going soon.


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## minnieme (Jul 6, 2011)

If I could give you all a big hug, I would! I feel so much better. Like I said, she is already pretty skinny...so I was very concerned I was killing her.  She probably should gain at least ten to fifteen pounds. This past week I have been feeding her about a pound and a half of bone-in, skinless chicken -- and she LOVES her meals which makes me so happy (she used to be very dismissive of her kibble and sometimes wouldn't even eat it). People have told me I am feeding her too little but I did want to keep on the low side to minimize any GI issues. I guess that doesn't even work though.  I will do a fast for the next 24 ours and report back. THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH!


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## minnieme (Jul 6, 2011)

Also, she is a year and 8 months - not sure if I mentioned that yet anywhere in my panicked and frenzied postings.


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## lucky (Jan 8, 2011)

Hello and welcome ... I can't really add any anything to the great advice thats already been given, all I can say is that you are a great mama doing the best for your dog and don't think otherwise  look forward to reading how she progresses


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

I think the BIGGEST factor in her success... is posting picture of your Dane. LOL

What can I say? I'm a sucker for Danes (I have.. well... a FEW of them...) and I know we have a handful of Dane fanciers here.


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## lucky (Jan 8, 2011)

I 2nd the picture request  I have never had a dane and only met one in my whole life but I love them


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

minnieme said:


> If I could give you all a big hug, I would! I feel so much better. Like I said, she is already pretty skinny...so I was very concerned I was killing her.  She probably should gain at least ten to fifteen pounds. This past week I have been feeding her about a pound and a half of bone-in, skinless chicken -- and she LOVES her meals which makes me so happy (she used to be very dismissive of her kibble and sometimes wouldn't even eat it). People have told me I am feeding her too little but I did want to keep on the low side to minimize any GI issues. I guess that doesn't even work though.  I will do a fast for the next 24 ours and report back. THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH!


breathe....that list is crazy busy.....and we're all afraid of killing our dogs for the first week or so.....

there are so many people on this board who will help you, for real.....you are not alone......honest. we've all been down this road..


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## minnieme (Jul 6, 2011)

*pictures of my baby - Minnie *



lucky said:


> I 2nd the picture request  I have never had a dane and only met one in my whole life but I love them










Here she is with her best friend.....a PUG. :smile:








Her being silly. :smile:








and here's her saying PLEASE stop taking my picture, mom!!!


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

she's beautiful....and the pug is adorable...i say that because i have a black one.


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

Yay!!! I love dane pictures!!!
She's so pretty. I LOVE merles. All kinds of merles. Blue merles. fawn merles. chocolate merles. 
Merle danes are a serious weakness of mine. 
SO, naturally, I need to have one of each. 
Yes, need. 
And a brindle, and a chocolate... just for fun. LOL


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## trikerdon (May 14, 2011)

I'm sure there are a ton of you here you also subscribe to the Yahoo Group "rawfeeding," so pardon the overlap

Funny you should mention this group on Yahoo. I quit it today after reading about feeding "Pumpkin and Veggies" Something about how that helps push the poop through the system?
Enough for me.....


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

trikerdon said:


> I'm sure there are a ton of you here you also subscribe to the Yahoo Group "rawfeeding," so pardon the overlap
> 
> Funny you should mention this group on Yahoo. I quit it today after reading about feeding "Pumpkin and Veggies" Something about how that helps push the poop through the system?
> Enough for me.....



What???!?! I didnt read that...Ive only read times where people were strongly reminded that we are feeding CARNIVORES and thus the group wont tell you to nor help you to feed anything that isnt species appropriate!


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

trikerdon said:


> I'm sure there are a ton of you here you also subscribe to the Yahoo Group "rawfeeding," so pardon the overlap
> 
> Funny you should mention this group on Yahoo. I quit it today after reading about feeding "Pumpkin and Veggies" Something about how that helps push the poop through the system?
> Enough for me.....


i think you're talking about a different group. the one i'm talking about that i mentioned...is hardcore prey model raw and whole animal raw.....meat bones and organs. that's it.


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## minnieme (Jul 6, 2011)

Speaking of uh... pushing...poo...through.....

If she has been on this for nearly a week and has only had very runny, watery poo.....does this mean there will eventually be a really big one? I don't know how she can have 7+ lbs of food in her body and me not know about it! She's so skinny! Could there be a blockage or ....or what? I guess I don't know too much about the digestive system, but I'm really perplexed with this one


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

Two things Minnie. She will utilize most of all her raw food so stool should be significantly less. Also, my collies are stick thin until about 2 years old and then they slowly start putting on weight. I sometimes want to hide them away for their teen season as they look half starved. They do start to bulk up as they mature though. Be patient you will be fine. I hope one of the Dane people here can give you more of a timeline on maturing and filling out.


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## Teresa and Jackpot (Jul 4, 2011)

minnieme said:


> Speaking of uh... pushing...poo...through.....
> I don't know how she can have 7+ lbs of food in her body and me not know about it! She's so skinny! Could there be a blockage or ....or what?


I'm new to raw feeding myself (1 week), and fortunately my dog has had an easy time of it. I've been feeding Jackpot about 1.5 lbs a day, and his output is tiny and hard. Which I'm told means, his body is using almost all of the raw food for nutritional needs. 

I was prepared for the small output because of what I had read in the stickied posts at the top of this Raw forum. If you haven't made your way through there, you're in for some educational (and at time entertaining) reading.

Minnie did a great job of manifesting being 'rescued' by someone who is feeding her raw, who found a raw-friendly vet, and who is leaving no stone unturned in seeing guidance on Minnie's well-being. 

As a fellow newbie, I'm heartened at the support you've found here on this forum. 

Teresa


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## minnieme (Jul 6, 2011)

Teresa and Jackpot said:


> I'm new to raw feeding myself (1 week), and fortunately my dog has had an easy time of it. I've been feeding Jackpot about 1.5 lbs a day, and his output is tiny and hard. Which I'm told means, his body is using almost all of the raw food for nutritional needs.
> 
> I was prepared for the small output because of what I had read in the stickied posts at the top of this Raw forum. If you haven't made your way through there, you're in for some educational (and at time entertaining) reading.
> 
> ...



Hi Teresa, 

I had read about the small poops too...but since I haven't done raw before, nor owned a giant breed dog, I couldn't believe that the diarrhea I was seeing was all there was. Particularly when her kibble poo was MASSIVE. To be frank, I think I was about as prepared as I could be coming into raw...but when your BABY gets thrown into the mix and it doesn't quite sit right, it throws one into a panic.  You all have been wonderful for calming me though....thank you so much very sincerely. 

-Jill


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## minnieme (Jul 6, 2011)

HALLELUJAH -- WE HAVE SOLID POOP TODAY AFTER A 24 HOUR FAST AND AFTER 7 DAYS OF WATERY POOP!

i am ecstatic. She is getting fed in a little bit though and I hope it doesn't mess with her system again.  Fingers crossed - I'm so happy right now!

Thanks so much everyone,

Jill


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## lucky (Jan 8, 2011)

I'm so glad that she has had a solid poop (however odd that may sound  

The photos were adorable btw, loved the one of her and the pug


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## Teresa and Jackpot (Jul 4, 2011)

Yay, Minnie!! Yay, Jill!!!


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## Herzo (Feb 5, 2011)

So happy about the poo and I hope they stay that way. I just started my latest dog I just got from the shelter last saturday and all is going well. Sorry you had so much trouble.


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