# Elevated liver levels...



## meggels (May 30, 2010)

So, Murph got blood work done on Monday to make sure everything was okay internally. He's been on raw for 2 months. Meat bone and organ solely. 

I'd had some concerns because he wasn't gaining weight on raw even though he was eating 10.5 oz a day (he's 20.5 lbs). He also seemed slightly lethargic but sometimes it's hard to distinguish because he's a lazy frenchie to begin with! A good day to him is lots of napping and chewing on his bones. 

He had a fecal done over a week ago and that came back clear. 

He got his blood work Monday morning and had lost a pound in a week since when he got the fecal done and was down to 19.5 lbs  

So everything on his blood work came back normal except for a very elevated ALT liver level. The vet said normal high is 118 and that his was at 320. 


We are gonna start him on a combo of two herbs tomorrow that she said she's seen success with for elevated liver levels. She said to try that for six weeks and then do a fasting blood work again and see where we are at. If it's better, than great, no big deal. If it's not, then she says we will need to do more testing such as an acid bile test and an ultrasound. 


She wants me to add a carb to his diet to help him with his weight, she said she's seen a lot of dogs have trouble keeping weight on raw without a carb, so she suggested either potato, sweet potato or peas. I'm considering just putting him on Orijen. But I'm not even sure where to begin with his diet if he's got liver levels that are elevated. 

Does anyone have any general experience with this issue? Or any diet related experience?


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

What time of day was blood drawn? Was this fasted bloodwork? What had he eaten for 24 hours prior to bloodwork?

I wouldnt add a carb in and I certainly wouldn't put him back on orijen because of his allergies.


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## PDXdogmom (Jun 30, 2010)

I can't comment about anything related to the raw feeding aspects. But I do know that many people who switch from feeding a kibble with low protein to a kibble with high protein like Orijen or Evo have dogs with elevated liver enzymes for a while when they first make the switch - but return to more normal levels later. It seems to make sense to test again in another 6-8 weeks to see if the liver lab values go down. 

If I were told to add one of the three items you mention for more carbohydrate to a diet, be it for myself or a dog, I'd choose the peas first, then sweet potato and lastly potato. That's because the glycemic index is lowest in the peas. My preference though would be to add quinoa for a carb source. 

I'm sure all the raw feeders will have experienced advice for you.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

DaneMama said:


> What time of day was blood drawn? Was this fasted bloodwork? What had he eaten for 24 hours prior to bloodwork?
> 
> I wouldnt add a carb in and I certainly wouldn't put him back on orijen because of his allergies.


It was taken at 10:30am. 

He was fasted since 10pm the night before. 

He was eating his beef and chicken mixture. 60% beef, 40% chicken.

He's never been on Orijen before. 

She suggested the carb because he won't gain weight and I'm already feeding him 10.5 oz a day, I dunno how much more I can afford.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Is he still on that ground mixture? 

I would personally get him off of that ground stuff if he's still on it. Even though it says exactly what is in it, you really have no clue how much fat, protein, etc is in it. In my experience the ground chub like foods have more fat in them than what they state. At least I have no clue what the ingredients are and what the nutritional values are...my only advice would be at this point to take him off of that stuff, and grind your own raw meaty bones for him. 

That way you SEE with your own eyes what is going into his system....

If he's not on the ground stuff, can you tell us what exactly his weekly or monthly menu has looked like? 

I will mention that elevated liver values aren't necessarily due to diet at all and is just genetics or random disease....it's impossible to say for sure. 

I still wouldn't recommend adding a carb at all.


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## SpooOwner (Oct 1, 2010)

Just an fyi. My dog eats 4% of her body weight. She's super active, which isn't your case, but Frenchies might just have ramped up metabolism.


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

I have a 20 pound sheltie who shoudl be maybe 21 or 22 pounds. She eat 10 -11 ounces to stay at 20 pounds. She is not super active but obviously her metabolism is high. She get s everything with skin, extra fat, eggs and fattier cuts of whatever everyone is eating. Our chucnky girl get lung and very lean meats and I trim excessive fat off her food. Sometime you just have to adjust to your dog. Also, remember most people think a lean, healthy dogs is too skinny. My girl looks good at 20 pounds and her body seems to like it there as well. As long as they are healthy, active and happy I am good with it. You might want to wait the 6-8 weeks and recheck bloodwork. Some fattier cuts of meat might help also. Feeding whole meats is easier so you can see the fat or marbling int hte meats and know exactly what you are feeding.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

Nat, I will consider that. I'm just so frustrated I'm ready to put him back on kibble.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

Also should add, he's still got a little yeast in his ear. It's been almost two months


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Yeast is tricky. Have you cleaned his ear out regularly since the switch to raw?

I'm sorry my only advice for you right now is to get him off the premade ground stuff but I don't know anything about it so I can't help you much. If you were feeding PMR, even ground by yourself I would know how to help or what to possibly change in the diet. 

Keep us posted!


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

PDXdogmom said:


> I can't comment about anything related to the raw feeding aspects. But I do know that many people who switch from feeding a kibble with low protein to a kibble with high protein like Orijen or Evo have dogs with elevated liver enzymes for a while when they first make the switch - but return to more normal levels later. It seems to make sense to test again in another 6-8 weeks to see if the liver lab values go down.
> 
> If I were told to add one of the three items you mention for more carbohydrate to a diet, be it for myself or a dog, I'd choose the peas first, then sweet potato and lastly potato. That's because the glycemic index is lowest in the peas. My preference though would be to add quinoa for a carb source.
> 
> I'm sure all the raw feeders will have experienced advice for you.




My dog food guy said it's normal for raw fed dogs to be slightly elevated. But I'm not sure. I feel very overwhelmed lol  

I pick up his medicines tomorrow. Thinking of keeping him on raw for the six weeks and then rechecking and seeing. Or I am thinking of putting him on a high quality kibble. I added in half a cup of earthborn holistic grain free fish kibble tonight and he looked a little better IMO. Not quite as thin. 


Spoo- That is reassuring. That's the one thing that gets me though, he isn't active at all LOL! It's a good workout for him to trot from the front door, down the front path, to my car! 


Liz & Natalie- yeah he's still on the premade mixture of meat, bone, organ. I'm thinking if I do stick with raw, it will be PMR style if I can get him to eat his bones appropriately. But I'm worried that I can't keep him healthy and afford to feed him as much as he NEEDS on raw and do it appropriately. Argh.


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

Meggels, I deleted some posts in this thread and I deleted your last post because it didn't make sense with the others gone.


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