# Crate aggression



## destinoscelgo

I'm pretty sure this falls in the "crate aggression" category...

Just to begin, about a month or so back I started crating and rotating Raj and Willow. Thankfully not because of DA issues, as the two of them get along fine but more for my own sanity since I find it much easier only dealing with one of them at a time, and even more so once the baby comes.

At first things were going pretty smoothly, they didnt like being seperate but they finally adjusted.

Well...Willow seems to have developed a need to protect her crate, as anytime the cats or Raj go near the kennel she goes absolutly ballistic. Thankfully she does not do it to people when they approach, in fact she doesnt even do it when I approach with Raj or one of the cats. I try to correct it the best I can by telling her no or quiet when she starts, but now she seems to have gotten ten times worse as now she has broken thru her wire crate . I'm scared that now she is going to end up hurting herself.
I need to curb this behavior as quickly as possible, but unfortunatly I dont live in the largest place right now and the way my house set up there is no way to completely set her off from everything else.

Any thoughts? Advice?


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## DaneMama

Maybe try moving the crates around so they aren't locked in one position in the house. Switch up crates as well between dogs. 

Also, its not fair for a dog to be crated and then other animals come up and be in her face...its just rude. By creating a barrier around her crate to keep others at a polite distance you can minimize a huge amount of reactivity. What I've seen work is using an X pen set up around the crate and then draping blankets over the pen. 

Does she guard the crate every time an animal comes by? Or just sometimes? 

I would work on crate games to start with both dogs. Start by doing them with each dog individually and then together.

crate games - YouTube


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## RawFedDogs

Generally this isn't a training problem. It is a behavior problem. Telling her "no" isn't going to help. She obviously thinks she is fighting for her life. As long as she thinks that, no amount of telling her "no" is going to help. I'm with DaneMama here. She is spending way too much time in the crate and from your post, its not going to get any better anytime soon. You need to either learn how to handle both dogs together or get rid of one of them. This is not a good situation for anybody, you or the dogs. It sounds like at least one dog is in a crate 24/7.


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## destinoscelgo

RawFedDogs said:


> Generally this isn't a training problem. It is a behavior problem. Telling her "no" isn't going to help. She obviously thinks she is fighting for her life. As long as she thinks that, no amount of telling her "no" is going to help. I'm with DaneMama here. She is spending way too much time in the crate and from your post, its not going to get any better anytime soon. You need to either learn how to handle both dogs together or get rid of one of them. This is not a good situation for anybody, you or the dogs. It sounds like at least one dog is in a crate 24/7.


Sorry i didnt realize I gave the impression she was in the crate 24/7. Trust me when I say shes not. I dont work currently as im out on "maternity" (really my job fired me for being pregnant long story) leave. I do sesssions of an hour and a half when I know I'll be home and when I'm not home the whole day I do an hour each time to get them both out as often as possible. 

Unfortunatly the way my house is set up I cant give her privacy she needs. I'm currently renting a one bedroom cottage so its not really all that big , but comfortable enough for when baby comes I can crate the dogs on opposite sides of the house and the bedroom is where the baby will be. 

And for the record. I own two Pit Bull mix dogs. The breed itself is prone to dog aggression and even though thankfully that is not the case with me, I chose to crate and rotate (in a fair manner) because in my small house when the baby comes I find it much easier to manage one dog being around a newborn than two at the same time.


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## destinoscelgo

DaneMama said:


> Maybe try moving the crates around so they aren't locked in one position in the house. Switch up crates as well between dogs.
> 
> Also, its not fair for a dog to be crated and then other animals come up and be in her face...its just rude. By creating a barrier around her crate to keep others at a polite distance you can minimize a huge amount of reactivity. What I've seen work is using an X pen set up around the crate and then draping blankets over the pen.
> 
> Does she guard the crate every time an animal comes by? Or just sometimes?
> 
> I would work on crate games to start with both dogs. Start by doing them with each dog individually and then together.
> 
> crate games - YouTube


Thank you for your response.
As of now Willow does not get this way every time an animal approaches, but when this does occur 95% of the time, Raj (Ill use him as an example) will just be walking by. Both my dogs are trained to leave the other alone when in their crate. Its how Ive managed living in a small house lol Like Raj knows Willows "kennel time" means to leave her alone and same thing with Willow. 
Ill definatly look into the crate games suggestion after Im done posting lol
I will also try switching back and forth between crates 
Thank you


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## Liz

I have 6 dogs. Wehave crates in three rooms and they are put into different crates all the time but never even a regularr rotation - I was having crate aggression issues also. If I have someone displaying protective behavior I will try to maybe put the crate in the laundry roon with a baby gate blocking the area or minimally a blanket over the crate has helped. I understand a small house as I have one too. The other thing you might try is putting the crate sideways so the door isn't facing out into the room - put the crate long wise against a wall and cover most of it. That might just do the job. I hoep some of that might help. Make sure there are no extra special good treatss she feels the need to protect while she is the only one crates. When I feed in crates no one else is wandering around everyone is in crates eating or outside.


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## RawFedDogs

I never got the impression that the one dog was crated 24/7 but your statement, _"Just to begin, about a month or so back I started crating and rotating Raj and Willow. Thankfully not because of DA issues, as the two of them get along fine but more for my own sanity since I find it much easier only dealing with one of them at a time, and even more so once the baby comes."_ leads me to believe that one dog or the other is in a crate all the time and they are rotated as to which one is crated. This is not solving any behavior problems rather it is aggravating them. This is not a way for dogs to live and it appears their living conditions are going to get worse, _"once the baby comes"_. I stand my my recommendation to rehome one or both dogs. Under present conditions your problems will only increase. It's obvious that either you aren't capable or have no desire to control both dogs together.


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## destinoscelgo

RawFedDogs said:


> I never got the impression that the one dog was crated 24/7 but your statement, _"Just to begin, about a month or so back I started crating and rotating Raj and Willow. Thankfully not because of DA issues, as the two of them get along fine but more for my own sanity since I find it much easier only dealing with one of them at a time, and even more so once the baby comes."_ leads me to believe that one dog or the other is in a crate all the time and they are rotated as to which one is crated. This is not solving any behavior problems rather it is aggravating them. This is not a way for dogs to live and it appears their living conditions are going to get worse, _"once the baby comes"_. I stand my my recommendation to rehome one or both dogs. Under present conditions your problems will only increase. It's obvious that either you aren't capable or have no desire to control both dogs together.


I didnt realize that crating and rotating was making a bad situation for my dogs. You should explain that to the hundreds of other "pit bull" owners who crate and rotate for a ton of different reasons. One reason being similar to why I do it. 
I am a first time mother who is managing a multi-dog household. Instead of setting my dogs up to fail I am choosing to manage the situation considering I am going to be going thru a crazy adjustment of my own when it comes to having a child. Or do you think I should put him up for adoption since I cant seem to handle it? That is all I have gotten from your posts so unless you have any actual advice on how to manage crate aggression and crate aggression only (such as the other posters which I do appreciate their advice and I intend on working with my dogs in that manner starting asap) as I have no intentions on failing my dogs and am willing to work with them the best that I can which I find to be best fit for my lifestyle, and as I own two bully breeds, and as most owners of these types of dogs know and understand that they do not need canine companions, only their humans so I do not need to keep them together I just need to figure out the best way to manage her crate aggression. 

Any other suggestions I am more than open to if you have any.


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## SerenityFL

I understand your situation is not easy and that your place is small. I have also lived in a small place with two dogs. But you have to "deal" with them, and work hard on training them. Yes, they need their one on one time with you but they also need together time, no matter how exhausting and time consuming that is. Trust me, I KNOW it's hard. It is a lot of work. It's plain old exhausting. I've been there.

But putting one or the other in the crate to make it easier for you is not fair to those dogs. It's totally unfair. And with a baby coming, and having to train them how to act around the baby, (and never ever leaving that baby unattended), you're going to have even less time for them.

And just because others do it, it doesn't make it right.

I agree with RawFedDogs on this one.


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## destinoscelgo

SerenityFL said:


> I understand your situation is not easy and that your place is small. I have also lived in a small place with two dogs. But you have to "deal" with them, and work hard on training them. Yes, they need their one on one time with you but they also need together time, no matter how exhausting and time consuming that is. Trust me, I KNOW it's hard. It is a lot of work. It's plain old exhausting. I've been there.
> 
> But putting one or the other in the crate to make it easier is not fair to those dogs. It's totally unfair. And with a baby coming, and having to train them how to act around the baby, (and never ever leaving that baby unattended), you're going to have even less time for them.
> 
> And just because others do it, it doesn't make it right.
> 
> I agree with RawFedDogs on this one.


lol I know you werent implying I was going to but I would never leave my child alone with any animal,
and I do agree just because others do it, doesnt make it right at all. Except this is a proven method of dealing with two dogs that are genetically predisposed to dog aggression. Raj is already dog aggressive (but I would say it is more "pack orientated" if that makes sense) He really prefers to be with only his human companions but does play with Willow and my sisters dog Piper. Willow has shown signs of dog reactivity (which I find to be completely different from aggression maybe others will disagree) which I am working on, as maybe this could be the cause of her "crate aggression" as maybe its not that at all. 
Maybe youre right and it isnt fair for one dog to be in the crate and the other to be out but that is life. They dont mind that. I think Willow is just protecting her space and I plan to figure out how to make her feel more comfortable.


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## SerenityFL

destinoscelgo said:


> lol I know you werent implying I was going to but I would never leave my child alone with any animal,
> and I do agree just because others do it, doesnt make it right at all. Except this is a proven method of dealing with two dogs that are genetically predisposed to dog aggression. Raj is already dog aggressive (but I would say it is more "pack orientated" if that makes sense) He really prefers to be with only his human companions but does play with Willow and my sisters dog Piper. Willow has shown signs of dog reactivity (which I find to be completely different from aggression maybe others will disagree) which I am working on, as maybe this could be the cause of her "crate aggression" as maybe its not that at all.
> Maybe youre right and it isnt fair for one dog to be in the crate and the other to be out but that is life. They dont mind that. I think Willow is just protecting her space and I plan to figure out how to make her feel more comfortable.


I have a dog aggressive dog. I am still working on him through a trainer and as I've said in other posts, it is NON stop with working with him. As I have said elsewhere, I don't get to just go outside and train for 10 minutes and then come back in and all is done. I'll also tell you, as I've said many times on here, I have sibling dogs. Brother and sister. Just about any vet or trainer or breeder worth their salt will tell you NEVER get sibling dogs. Well, I wasn't planning on these two, they got thrown out of a car and left to die in traffic. 

But they are here now. And I have worked, for over a year, with these two. The training never, ever, ever, ever stops. It's constant. BUT, it's that first part that is the hardest. Laying down the foundations is the most time consuming, the most fricken exhausting, (there is no other word for it), the most aggravating and yes, holy cow do I know how so much easier it would be to just rotate them in and out of the crate. I KNOW! I've been there. Sibling dogs CAN get along IF you put in the work OR you keep them separate the rest of their lives or you rehome them. I do not think it's fair to keep them separate while living under the same roof and I didn't want to have to rehome so I have put in the work. I have spent more money than I care to admit on behavior training, clicker/treat training, tools and replacing things all during their non stop training.

HOWEVER, now? While I still have to watch them and monitor them, (they can never be left alone together without someone there, ever), things are going pretty well and if I tell them, "No!", 90% of the time, I get the results I want. Like I said, we are still training. They have come a long way from how they were when I got them, there are still some bits of aggression but again, I work and work and work and work and work and work on them. All day long.

When I'm gone, and I lived in a smaller place, yes, I had to have the boy in his crate while I was at work. None of my doors stayed closed. But when I got home? He was out. He was out WITH me AND the other dog and we worked on things separately and together. Everything took twice as long in the initial stages of training. What I would do is get home, take one dog out, have them do their business, train them things like stay and recall and the like for about 10 minutes, let them burn off some energy with play, then I'd come back, put that one in and take the second one out. THEN? I'd come back and take them both out. I KNOW it's hard work. And I know about dog aggression. I live with it. I also know about two dogs getting aggressive with each other if there is no training and me not reinforcing proper behavior.

I would never open my pie hole about it if I hadn't lived it and am currently living it myself. I have a dog aggressive dog. I have lived in a place that was probably smaller than your one bedroom cottage when I first got them. I have two sibling dogs that I must constantly watch and train. And I understand it is so not even easy. 

But I will say again, it is not fair to those dogs to rotate them in and out of the crate. It simply is not fair. Now you've got a baby coming. The fact of the matter is, babies take up a LOT of your time. You are going to have even less time to take care of both of your dogs and train them. I know that "rehoming" is the last thing you want to hear but the difference between me and you is I have pretty much all the time in the world to devote to these dogs. You're not going to have that time. Your baby is going to take precedence. There is nothing wrong with that but you have to own up to the fact that it's not fair to the dogs.

Listen, I'm one that likes to find any solution before ever thinking of or suggesting rehoming an animal and I know that people at the shelters and rescues hear all the time, "I can't keep my dog because I had a baby" but in this case, because the foundation wasn't set before the child got there, to be fair to those dogs, I would suggest it this time. Maybe find a friend who can take one so you can still see the dog and visit and play with it. That would actually be the best option. 

So, in summary, while our situations aren't EXACTLY the same, they are similar and I do, really, understand. I really do. And I still say, rehoming is probably the best answer no matter how painful that may be to hear.


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## RawFedDogs

destinoscelgo said:


> I didnt realize that crating and rotating was making a bad situation for my dogs.


Yes it is. It has created the problem you now have.



> You should explain that to the hundreds of other "pit bull" owners who crate and rotate for a ton of different reasons. One reason being similar to why I do it.


I would tell them exactly the same thing.



> I am a first time mother who is managing a multi-dog household. Instead of setting my dogs up to fail I am choosing to manage the situation considering I am going to be going thru a crazy adjustment of my own when it comes to having a child.


You aren't setting them up to do anything. You aren't even handling the problem. You are TRYING to handle the symptom. The problem is that you don't want to have two dogs in your house so you lock them up one at a time so you only have to deal with one. You said yourself that they get along great when out of the crate so if I am wrong about you just plain not wanting to fool with them, tell me again why you crate them? Tell me what situation would arise that you would no longer feel the need to crate them. Once the baby arives you will feel an even greater need to crate them even more. So now tell me why rehoming these dogs is not the answer to your problem. Explain to me how these dogs could possibly be happy.



> Or do you think I should put him up for adoption since I cant seem to handle it?


Yes, exactlly. I don't know whether you can handle them or not. I'm guessing you can't. I know for sure you are choosing not to.



> That is all I have gotten from your posts so unless you have any actual advice on how to manage crate aggression and crate aggression only (such as the other posters which I do appreciate their advice and I intend on working with my dogs in that manner starting asap) as I have no intentions on failing my dogs and am willing to work with them the best that I can which I find to be best fit for my lifestyle, and as I own two bully breeds, and as most owners of these types of dogs know and understand that they do not need canine companions, only their humans so I do not need to keep them together I just need to figure out the best way to manage her crate aggression.


OK, here it is. You manage the crate aggression by not putting the dogs in the crate. That will solve that problem very quickly. No you're not willing to work with them. You said in your first post, _"Thankfully not because of DA issues, as the two of them get along fine but more for my own sanity since I find it much easier only dealing with one of them at a time, and even more so once the baby comes."_ That implies to me that you aren't emotionally able to handle both dogs at the same time or aren't willing to put forth the effort to do so.



> Any other suggestions I am more than open to if you have any.


I have given you the answer to your problem. It's just not the answer you want to hear. I hate to tell you there is no easy way to fix this and you don't seem to want to put forth effort to "put up" with both dogs at the same time.


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## cprcheetah

I have to agree with the others, you need to train both dogs how to behave when they are out, just keeping them in their crates and rotating them is in no way fair to the dogs, and as you have seen is creating a problem. Ziva has severe crate anxiety, she gets agressive, paces back and forth etc, so she is only in her crate when she absolutely has to be. I don't like seeing her anxious like that. I would suggest talking to a behaviorist or a trainer and resolving your issues that way. To me it sounds like once the baby comes the dogs are going to play 2nd fiddle (which is fine) but just the way you are describing it makes it sound like the dogs will just be there and crated in order to deal with them.


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## CorgiPaws

I'm confused. 
If you're so hellbent on NOT handling two dogs at a time, and NOT having two dogs around, and NOT training two dogs...... why in the world do you HAVE two dogs?


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## twotonelover

destinoscelgo said:


> for my own sanity since I find it much easier only dealing with one of them at a time


Why have two dogs then if "for your own sanity" you have to keep one locked up? My advice for the crate aggression: don't crate your dogs (at least when your home anyway). If this isn't an option, and you are unable to work with them in another manner, then maybe you shouldn't have two dogs. 

My friend has two 18month old twins, and another baby on the way, plus 4 pitbulls. These dogs are NEVER crated or confined in ANY way. She did almost all the foundation work with these dogs ON HER OWN since her hubby works long hours. Every one of her dogs is an ambassador of the breed, the most well behaved dogs I know. Trust me, if you just put in some effort, instead of just caging up your dogs so you don't have to deal with both of them, it WILL work. Be glad you have two pits that don't seem to have any dog aggression! Let them enjoy each others company, since obviously being in a crate is stressing one of them out.


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## Maxy24

While I do agree it sounds like you are not able to handle two dogs (which is the reason you only allow one out at a time despite them being happier together) and may be best to rehome one, I also wanted to help you with your problem. Only having one dog will not get rid of the dog's need to guard her crate from other animals, it just won't put the dog into the situation that causes the reaction (and you'd still have cats which also trigger the reaction so it might not help at all). Plus rehoming a pit bull is often very hard, ask the shelters who have highly adoptable pit bulls sitting in the shelter for months upon months while their super shy lab mixes get adopted in a week. This problem can be counter conditioned. This however REQUIRES that the ONLY time Willow is crated is when the other animals can't walk by her crate and cause a reaction or during these counter conditioning sessions. This means that when you leave the house or sleep and have to crate Willow, Raj should also be crated away from her and the cats should somehow be restricted from going near the crate.


Counter conditioning simply involves changing Willow's opinion of animals coming near her crate. Since you say she doesn't react when you have the dog or cat with you, this may be more difficult. HOWEVER I'm not entirely sure this is true, are you sure she shows NO signs of being upset when you bring Raj or the cat near the crate? Does she stare at them, become stiff, lick her lips a lot, start yawning, anything like that? It's possible she doesn't react because she doesn't want you to yell at her, but it could be possible she just isn't bothered in these situations for whatever reason.

So to start you must bring Raj towards Willow's crate but NOT close enough so that she reacts. I'm not just talking about really big reactions, but no growling, no stiffening, no signs of stress. Keep raj at this point and toss Willow treats into her crate (give Raj some for not trying to go after the tossed treats). If your aim is awful you might try to make some sort of cup on a stick device to dump them in or train Raj a solid sit so you can leave him where he is and walk to the crate to drop treats in. Whatever you do, reward willow for allowing Raj to be there. Move a little closer and reward more. Then closer. If Willow start showing ANY signs of stress you need to move back until she is calm again. Keep these sessions short, your goal isn't to get as close as possible in a session, it's to keep Willow happy during the sessions. At the next session you might want to start a step or two back from where you ended last time just in case. Remember you never want a reaction from Willow. You'll continue these sessions and eventually should be able to have Raj walk around her crate with no problems.

Now like I said, if she truly has no problems with the animals around her crate with you there this is going to be tricky as it's going to be hard to control the exact proximity Raj gets to the crate if you're not there. My best suggestion would be train him to sit or lie or stand on a mat (towel or welcome mat) on command. Then you can put the mat as close or far from the crate as you need to and send raj to it from a distance. You'd still have to approach the crate to reward willow (And Raj for being a good boy). You could also try having Raj on a long line with you across the room and not allowing him to get close enough to upset her, then reward her and slowly let him get closer and closer while going and rewarding her. It won't be as precise as you having him on a six foot leash next to you and it might go more slowly, but it could still work. You're just trying to instill in Willow's mind that "Raj comes close, awesome things happen to me". I don't know what you'd do for the cats exactly except rewarding her every time she sees them from the crate. However all it would take is them coming too close too soon for the training to be set way back, so you'd have to be diligent about having them keep a distance during the session.


If for some reason you can't commit to doing the above you can see if covering the crate would work. I feel like she'd still know the animals were near her crate, but perhaps not. Cover it with something she can't see through and then cut a hole in the top for air circulation.


When the baby does arrive I'd make an immediate effort to teach Willow the baby near her crate is a good thing using the same counter conditioning methods. Even if she has shown no problems with people near her crate thus far, young kids don't exactly behave like adults, so Willow may feel threatened by a toddler running at her crate and falling next to it while screeching. So it'd be a good precaution to just let her know the kid being around the crate is good for her right from the start.


For those who say NEVER CRATE THEM I think you are giving dangerous advice. Pit bulls were bred to fight, they should never be loose alone together, no matter how well they get along. You may know people who do it, just as you may know people who bring them to dog parks, but that doesn't make it safe. I don't agree with crating one because you can't handle two at once, but I would never say stop crating altogether. Even if you only had one dog you'd still have cats, and it's equally risky to leave dogs with high prey drive alone with cats, be it pit bulls or JRTs. So the dog would somehow have to be separated from them when you're sleeping or alone, crates are usually how that's done.


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