# are ur dogs spayed/neutered?



## RCTRIPLEFRESH5

also what is the best age to spay? and what is the best age to neuter? i know for neutering you should wait until about 14 months...but for spaying idk?x 
might get some flack for saying this, but im thinking neutering can;t be too good for the dogs...males need testosterone to be healthy..or else they become tired, depressed, and irritable.

also what are the best steps to take to find reputable breeders of dogs? we rescued shane, but this time are itnerested in buying from a reputable breeder.
we are interested in either a newfoundland,a great dane, or a doberman(european), and we submitted an ap to a local golden breeder..but not sure if we want one after all this.

I also feel guilty lookin for one .


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## sozzle

Blimey, I hope my dog doesn't get tired depressed and irritable, I've only had him since February. My dog is an ex racing greyhound and he was neutered on his 5th birthday (what a great gift) once we had decided to adopt him. They have to be intact whilst racing but once they retire they have to be neutered as greyhounds are very exploited and they don't want any more little ones running around. Sorry can't answer any more of your questions about age etc as I have no idea.
When Stanley went in for his op they could only find one testicle and now he has this little empty sack hanging between his bum cheeks which is very noticeable on a greyhound as they have very little hair and are very muscular awwww so sweet!


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## tansox

Crikey, all of my dogs are castrated and they are definitely not depressed, lethargic or unhappy. In fact, they are very very happy with their lives, they don't have to worry about finding a mate, the don't worry about the bitch in season in the village, in fact, all they have to "worry" about is, when's dinner, when's play-time, when's time to train and when's it bed-time! What a life!!

My three NEVER stop for anything else, they are definitely not depressed or in any way unhappy with their lives. 

Neutered dogs that are "depressed" are usually in that state because of other things lacking in their lives in my view.


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## Maxy24

Tucker was neutered at 7 months, which is too early IMO but the rescue required it. I think the best age to spay/neuter is around 2 years old. Maybe later with giant breeds because they mature very slowly. Those hormones are important, but mainly for the body and growth. If you can keep them there until the body is completely done growing and filling out, that's a good idea. I don't think that it would make the dogs depressed, lethargic, or unhappy. Tucker's energy level certainly did not change when he was neutered. That said I also have no problem with people who want to keep their pets intact forever so long as they prevent the dog from causing a pregnancy, if they can't do that then their dog should be neutered ASAP for the greater good. In any case, if you to a reputable breeder they will probably have some policy set in place for if and when you need to neuter the dog.


As far as a reputable breeder goes, you want one that ensures the proper temperament of the breed, and tries to ensure their dogs will not pass on any genetic disorders. I believe the best ways for breeders to do this is through competitions/certifications that illustrate the dog's temperament, and OFA/CERF screenings for genetic disorders. Because a good breeder is ensuring PROPER temperament for the breed, make sure you really like everything about the breed. The three breeds you are looking at are pretty different from each other, especially the Doberman. A reputable breeder will not have several litters every year, I'd personally write off any that has more than two litters, even that is a lot of they do that every year. The puppies should be raised inside with the family. The breeder should be willing to take back the puppies no matter what, at any age, if the owner doesn't want them anymore. 

I'd love to help you look for breeders, what state are you in/willing to go to to get the puppy?


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## kevin bradley

of course they are.


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## mel2mdl

All my animals are neutered or spayed. Once they are full grown, I think it is okay - for small dogs, that means around a year, IMO - larger dogs, 2 years. I haven't noticed an impact in energy level or 'depression' but have seen a huge reduction in aggression on my rescue dog!

Top ten reasons for spaying or neutering your pet were killed at the pound this morning...


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## Caty M

All of those breeds are prone to major health problems so definitely check the breeder out thoroughly, in particular hip scores and ask about deaths from cancer and cardiomyopathy. Large/giant breeds shouldn't be fixed until their growth plates fuse (age 2ish)?


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## chowder

Rocky and Shade are both neutered. If Shade had any more energy or enthusiasm for life I wouldn't be able to take it! He is super energetic, super happy, and definitely not lethargic or depressed. (Rocky too). In fact, both guys were wrestling and playing with each other just this morning after breakfast.

I don't know if neutering affected this aspect, but both boys are incredibly devoted to me. I have Rocky on top of my feet while I type this and Shade laying up against my chair. Sometimes I'll have both boys on my feet at once! When I was a kid and we had an unneutered male dog, all he did was get out and roam the neighborhood. He didn't seem particularly devoted to any family member.


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## Celt

I've usually wait for the pup to stop growing, so my little dogs have all been around 7-8 months, and the bigger dogs around 12-14months, if we were sure they wouldn't be bred (way back when my family bred dogs). We would to fix our dogs when we decided that their "breeding time" was up (3+ years), they always seemed to be happier after being fixed. No more going off their feed, pacing, fretting whenever they smelled a bitch in heat. Sometimes, you may "have to" fix a dog early (and at a "bad time), a friend ended up fixing her girl because she "lost it" when she went into heat. Constant whining, pacing til she was exhausted, refused to eat, barely drank, had to have been the worse reaction ever. She looked like a little skeleton by the end of the first week.


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## Caty M

Tessie is on a spay contract and has to be snipped by 7 months in November. I REALLY don't want to do it that early and wish I had brought it up when I got her. Ideally I'd wait until 1.5-2 years for her.


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## kevin bradley

mel2mdl said:


> Top ten reasons for spaying or neutering your pet were killed at the pound this morning...


Perfectly said. RC, I'd be careful about buying into some of the myths of neutering. Do some research online. You might just find that some of your worries aren't valid.


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## Stella+Samson

Hi,

my Stella was spayed when she was around 10 or 11 months old, a little after her first heat. And it was not good for her, she got scared of other dogs after that. Maybe not scared but with little self esteem. I later found out, that with dogs that are easily freightened, its better to wait till they are 2 or 3 years old. But i did not know. I wanted the best for my little princess. I know that in Spain, some vets only take the ovaries out and left the uterus in, that way the females dont get in heat anymore and can´t have puppies but still have some female hormons, which is better for the system. I think this might be a more gentle way. But I also am aware, that most dogs don´t change after getting spayed or neutered and are totally happy. So, i guess it was just bad luck with Stella.

But after this experience, I did not want Samson fixed. And he was always a good guy, got along with almost all other dogs, so i did not really have a reason.

Now he changed, he does not get along with all other dogs anymore. But we moved, everything is different here, that might be the reason for his behavior change. And, anyways, i dont plan on having him fixed now, that he is already this old and has heart problems and joint problems.

What was very intersting, when we went to the vet with Samson here, the vet (and in my experience the vets want to castrate all dogs) said, that the 2 things that are in his favour are his weight (he weights only 70 lbs) and the fact that he is not fixed.

The vet said, that with big male dogs, the hormons keeps the hips together. Whatever he meant with that. 

And i also must say, i am totally shocked to find out, that some puppies are fixed at a very young age here!

I am NOT AGAINST castrating dogs. I helped with animal rescue long enough. But we should not forget, that the body is a systems and with spaying or neutering we take something out of the equation....

Just when u have a mixed pack in the house, u have to fix at least 1 gender, otherwise u go crazy. (I had this experience with a foster dog once...)


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## Celt

Caty M---maybe talk to your vet and have him take measurements of Tessie to see if she's finished growing by 7 months and if not you can then talk to the breeder and show them that she's still "growing up" and see if they would be willing to wait til she's done. Although most of my little dogs have been done "growing" (and their ears "set") by 7 months.


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## RaisingWolves

Stella+Samson said:


> I am NOT AGAINST castrating dogs. I helped with animal rescue long enough. But we should not forget, that the body is a systems and with spaying or neutering we take something out of the equation....


Exactly! They are removing a large part of the endocrine system with spay/neuter. 
I'm not against spaying/neutering, I'm against early speuter.


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## wags

All four of my dogs have been spayed/neutered 2 female 2 males. Energy level is not affected by this at all. My dogs are all court jesters!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We encountered a large loose male Rotweiller un neutered and he was quiet a handful for the kid too get him back into his yard. I would def. for health purposes go with neutering the only way I would not neuter a dog is if I planned to breed the dog. So if your not planning on breeding Neuter/spay your pup! I did my females before their first heat cycle and the males at 6 months have I had any problems NONE! Lucky is a beagle male 12 years old runs with the big dogs! No problems. Gordon 3 year old has no health problems so far doing great! The labs both females Sandi 8 years old she hasn't had any problems from being spayed. Roxi chocolate lab also no probs from spaying! Like I said unless your breeding your dog, I say go for the court jester ways!


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## meggels

RC, one thing to keep in mind is that a lot of the larger breeds tend to have shorter lifespans. I know you were upset that Shane only made it to 8 years old, so it might be something to consider.


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## magicre

malia was spayed at 18 months.
we didn't get bubba until he was two. and he was neutered because he had run out of grass blades to mark.
trust me, he was not depressed after neutering. he did calm down a little, but he's a pug and full of love.

don't feel guilty about getting another dog. that is the beauty of dogs. you still love shane. your heart, i'm sure, is big enough to love another.

and besides, shane is off running around with the wolves...and my dogs and everyone else's dog who has died....

circle of life....

i have been told between a year and 18 months....i like eighteen months. it gives them a chance to physically mature....


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5

chowder said:


> Rocky and Shade are both neutered. If Shade had any more energy or enthusiasm for life I wouldn't be able to take it! He is super energetic, super happy, and definitely not lethargic or depressed. (Rocky too). In fact, both guys were wrestling and playing with each other just this morning after breakfast.
> 
> I don't know if neutering affected this aspect, but both boys are incredibly devoted to me. I have Rocky on top of my feet while I type this and Shade laying up against my chair. Sometimes I'll have both boys on my feet at once! When I was a kid and we had an unneutered male dog, all he did was get out and roam the neighborhood. He didn't seem particularly devoted to any family member.



maybe it's different for dog's but i know in humans testosterone is important. shane was pretty lively himself and he was neut4ered. he was neutered at 10-11 months. he never ever lifted his leg to go to the bathroom..which i always found weird.

if i got a male dog i would wait until atleast 14 month, but females are a tricky case???? i now they have their first heat at 6 months? and that their risk of breast cancer increases if they;re not spayed before then?


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5

meggels said:


> RC, one thing to keep in mind is that a lot of the larger breeds tend to have shorter lifespans. I know you were upset that Shane only made it to 8 years old, so it might be something to consider.


thanks meggels. a big reason i was upset, was that it was unexpected. shane's lifespan was 12-14 years, so 8 was a shocker. the positive thing about giant breed, is atleast if they fie at 8 you can say ''well he lived out his lifespan;;...then again they can die at 5 -_-


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## chowder

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> he never ever lifted his leg to go to the bathroom..which i always found weird.
> 
> i


I had one boy who never lifted his leg. He was very stocky and I think he would have fallen over if he had tried it! Rocky will do it on occasion, but he was almost 18 months before he even tried, and then he had to practice it! He just couldn't seem to get the hang of it. Even now he only does it on occasion. Shade lifted his leg on every single thing we owned when we first got him. Now that he's lived with us awhile, he will actually squat instead of lifting a leg sometimes. 

I think that part just totally depends on the dog.


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## magicre

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> thanks meggels. a big reason i was upset, was that it was unexpected. shane's lifespan was 12-14 years, so 8 was a shocker. the positive thing about giant breed, is atleast if they fie at 8 you can say ''well he lived out his lifespan;;...then again they can die at 5 -_-


i get that....i really do.....


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## kevin bradley

I have to add one comment. Any of my Dogs who came into my life NOT spayed or NOT neutered have been a real pain to deal with... excuse my bluntness for a moment-- but humping everything in site, more apt to roam.... bleeding all over.... I'm not saying this applies to every Dog, but it has for mine. Now keep in mind, I only had to deal with it for a short time as appointments were always pending for their operations. At which time, I learned that thank God we can do this.


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## RaisingWolves

I spayed/neutered my two boxers by the age of 6 months old and BOTH humped after surgery. Yes, females do hump.:tsk: Spaying does not stop the behavior.... training does. 
I get why spay and neuter is so important. I see dogs running off leash and out of control on my walks everyday but you do not have to spay/ neuter to be a responsible dog owner. 


As for bleeding all over the house, that's what britches are for. No mess, no fuss.


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## monkeys23

My spayed bitches mark too... Its impressive that they can actually hit trees/poles!

For the average pet home I'd say 6 months irregardless of gender. Now for someone capable of responsibly containing their dog on the other hand (I think most here fit that bill) I'm all for letting the dog reach maturity at 18 months before altering. Only if you know you can avoid oops though!

My current are rescues, but I plan on only getting working dogs (Malinois/D.S.) in the future which most likely will stay intact at least until I see how they pan out working wise. It would suck to get a once in a lifetime dog that just happens to not show full potential until its a couple years old and you've screwed yourself by already altering it.

I have nothing helpful on breeders, really the only breed you mentioned that interests me are Dobes. You should check out doberman-chat.com and ask for help on good breeders.

There is a kick ass Dobe at training, he's still so awkward and teenagerish at 18 months its freaking adorable. He's a very very nice dog.

I got to play with 8 month old maligator pups that are being raised as PSD prospects last night! Ack, so freaking adorable! I might be in big big trouble... the officer who is raising them is thinking about selling the one who ends up not being his K9.... Won't know which that is until they are older and further in training, but I am more than happy to pass on the whole puppy thing!


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## RaisingWolves

I've posted this article once, but I think it's worth posting again.

Why spay/neuter is like kibble | PetConnection.com


Why spay/neuter is like kibble
By Christie Keith

December 10, 2010

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I had a particularly frustrating conversation with a dog-walker friend of mine over on Facebook yesterday, about the challenges of owning an intact male dog in a city where virtually every dog you encounter has been spayed or neutered.

She didn’t say anything outrageous, just recapitulated the conventional wisdom about how intact animals trigger or cause behavior problems in group situations, how intact males will be aggressive, how intact males “incite” aggression in neutered dogs even when the intact male isn’t aggressive himself, and so on. Nothing we all haven’t heard before, and probably nothing many pet owners would think twice about.

But those of us who have kept intact males for decades, who take our dogs to conformation shows and field events where all the animals are intact, know that some of these statements being presented as universal truths are, in fact, situational.

When dogs aren’t used to being around intact dogs, yes, they may very well freak out when they meet one. But at dog shows, conformation handling classes and performance events, problems of aggression are very rare, because people and dogs are used to that situation. Everyone knows what to do, and the dogs know how the dogs next to them in the ring are “supposed to” walk, stand and smell.

After the exchange, I felt myself gearing up to go into a long rant about how we’ve lost our animal sense, and people can’t deal with animals as nature made them anymore, and we’re turning dogs into neutered little robots because of the demands of society and blah blah blah, when it struck me.

Spay/neuter is the kibble of reproductive biology.

I mean, think about it. Would pet ownership be so widespread if we didn’t have near-universal spay/neuter and easy, cheap commercial pet foods?

While we often give other reasons — altruistic ones or health ones — most dog owners have come to rely on neutering to change dogs’ natural behavior so they fit into unnatural crowded urban environment, just as they’ve come to rely on commercial processed diets to feed their pets cheaply and conveniently.

But our dogs, like us, will do best on a diet of fresh, varied, wholesome foods, even if such a diet is more expensive and time-consuming than putting kibble in a bowl. And while a dog with a specific health problem may benefit from being neutered, for most male dogs, neutering increases, rather than decreases, health risks.

Both kibble and spay/neuter benefit dogs in general by making it easier for people to own dogs, which is something I’m in favor of. And I don’t want to make it harder to own pets than it already is, either.

But I’m increasingly uncomfortable with how few people seem to question or even acknowledge that we’re making some pretty significant trade-offs in terms of our dogs’ health to get that ease of ownership.

For instance, it’s shocking how many people I respect — people who I think have some pretty good knowledge and experience about dogs — honestly don’t know there’s any medical or behavioral downside to spaying and neutering dogs.

And there’s something fundamentally skewed when a dog isn’t considered “normal” by dog owners or their dogs unless he’s had his testicles removed. Being intact is, in fact, normal, even if it’s no longer common. It’s not a health problem to be cured with surgery, it’s not a tragedy, and it’s not a sign that the dog’s owner is stupid or irresponsible.

I know that I’ll continue to feed my dogs fresh food and make decisions about their reproductive organs on an individual basis, just like I do for myself.

And I’ll continue to be glad that so many people want to share their lives and homes with dogs, and want to do the right thing for their pets.

But I’ll also remember that there is a natural conflict between those two statements — and wish a lot more people would realize that, too.


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## lauren43

For me spaying and neutering is not completely for behavioral reasons, though I do believe some issues can be assisted by altering an animal (but that may be on an individual basis). I just whole heartedly believe its a must because there are way more dogs in this world than there are owners, especially good owners. The ppl who leave their dogs intact because they "deserve" to have their balls are many times the same owners who end up with a dog that runs away or gets another dog preggers. I am not by any means saying that every person who does not alter their dog is going to end up adding to the overpopulation issue, I am just saying we are all human everyone makes mistakes, its a part of life. But an accidental litter is something that can be completely prevented. 

Everyday I receive emails about dogs that will be PTS with out transport. And although many ppl on this forum are responsible enough to have an unaltered dog with no issues the vast majority of dog owners are not. Think of all the comments you get about feeding raw, thats because many ppl get a dog and do not lift a finger to learn anything about the dog they are getting or dogs in general. Then the next thing you know this dog has behavioral issues and they get dropped off at a shelter...or worse.


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## sozzle

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> maybe it's different for dog's but he never ever lifted his leg to go to the bathroom..which i always found weird.


My 5 year old boy doesn't lift his leg either, he squats. Apparently it is learned behaviour. I thought all male dogs did as the male dog I grew up with did and my inlaws dog does...mind you they were/are both intact! My inlaws dog scent marks all over the place on walks which I think is probably why he gets walked off leash at the river as opposed to leashed on the street as it's so annoying him stopping every few yards for a pee!
Also my inlaws 10 year old intact border collie who has a lovely nature and gets on with other dogs does become aggressive when he meets other intact males.


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5

kevin bradley said:


> I have to add one comment. Any of my Dogs who came into my life NOT spayed or NOT neutered have been a real pain to deal with... excuse my bluntness for a moment-- but humping everything in site, more apt to roam.... bleeding all over.... I'm not saying this applies to every Dog, but it has for mine. Now keep in mind, I only had to deal with it for a short time as appointments were always pending for their operations. At which time, I learned that thank God we can do this.


shane humped even though he was neutereed . he lifted his leg but once every 6 months or so


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## CorgiPaws

People may or may not agree with me, but here goes:

Giant breed dogs take much longer to mature than smaller breeds. I believe in later alteration of those dogs. Keep in mind, I am talking GIANT, not large here. I would spay/neuter a giant breed dog somewhere between 12 and 24 months, all just depending on their development. 
If I were getting a medium/large breed dog, I would go ahead any neuter/spay at 8-12 months, hopefully before the female's first heat. 
I would not hesitate to spay/neuter a small breed dog between 6-9 months. 

On testosterone effecting mood: I'm fairly certain if I castrated my husband, he'd suffer psychological damage. :tongue: He's human, and capable of far more complex thinking and reasoning. A dog, however, doesn't really notice they're gone! I've had a couple neutered males in my life, and none of which have ever seemed depressed or aggravated. I would put that worry to rest. 

On humping: My neutered male humps everything. My in tact male does not. He humped Zailey for the first two or so days off and on, but not since. I really think that in tact males are smarter about mounting to be honest.. and this is just in my observation. They seem to "get it" and only attempt to mount a female in season. In daycare, there are a lot of the super super hump-happy dogs, all of which are of course neutered. This is simply observation on my part. 


I think that it is one issue that each side has a lot of pros and cons, so you just have to do what makes sense to you. Having an in tact animal is a lot of responsibility. Remember, no one plans accidental litters, so assuming that it just won't happen without added effort on your part is unreasonable. I honestly don't think I would deal with a female's heats if it were a pet.


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## Liz

I require all my puppies to be spayed/neutered. I do request that they wait at least til a year old as most of their growth is done but if they can wait until 18 months - 24 months I think it is better. Poeple on this forum are incredible dog owners and would probably do a good job of protecting a dog from unwated pregancy until they matured. Most people on the other hand should just get their dogs spayed or neutered by 6 months old definately. The general public does not take the time, care or responsibility to keep an intact dog. If they were we wouldn't have so many BYB and ooops puppies.

As far as humping/leg lifting - well I will probably get myself in trouble here but I see it as more of a training/dominance issue. My intact 11 yeaar old male lifted his leg once in the house at about 7 months old - I managed to convince him of the error of his ways and he has never done it again. That said we pet sit and have to work diligently with many neutered and spayed visitors to behave appropriately since their behavior is unacceptable - normal maybe but unacceptable.


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## Jynical

All of my dogs (and cats) have been spayed or neutered.

...and this. Totally this:



mel2mdl said:


> Top ten reasons for spaying or neutering your pet were killed at the pound this morning...


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## chowder

*Good Reason to Spay and Neuter*

Here is a prime reason why people should spay and neuter their pets. I just saw this article on our news. The town near us has to bring in a task force to hunt down and capture about 150 wild dogs that are roaming in packs thru the town. This is a military town where people dispose of dogs like they are candy wrappers. 

Fayetteville might call in stray-dog task force :: WRAL.com


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## lauren43

Liz said:


> Poeple on this forum are incredible dog owners and would probably do a good job of protecting a dog from unwated pregancy until they matured. Most people on the other hand should just get their dogs spayed or neutered by 6 months old definately. The general public does not take the time, care or responsibility to keep an intact dog. If they were we wouldn't have so many BYB and ooops puppies.


Exactly! Nice to hear this from a breeder none the less!


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5

lauren43 said:


> Exactly! Nice to hear this from a breeder none the less!


so it seems there's a lot of different suggestions and opinions being expressed here. it sounds like a lot of people believe that as long as someone responsible owns a male dog, and keeps them away from females, that they should not neuter him until he matures.

is this the same with females? i want to allow a female to mature, but I don;t know how much the risk for breast cancer increases by waiting to spay at 18 months!?

we want a female this time


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5

PuppyPaws said:


> People may or may not agree with me, but here goes:
> 
> Giant breed dogs take much longer to mature than smaller breeds. I believe in later alteration of those dogs. Keep in mind, I am talking GIANT, not large here. I would spay/neuter a giant breed dog somewhere between 12 and 24 months, all just depending on their development.
> If I were getting a medium/large breed dog, I would go ahead any neuter/spay at 8-12 months, hopefully before the female's first heat.
> I would not hesitate to spay/neuter a small breed dog between 6-9 months.
> 
> On testosterone effecting mood: I'm fairly certain if I castrated my husband, he'd suffer psychological damage. :tongue: He's human, and capable of far more complex thinking and reasoning. A dog, however, doesn't really notice they're gone! I've had a couple neutered males in my life, and none of which have ever seemed depressed or aggravated. I would put that worry to rest.
> 
> On humping: My neutered male humps everything. My in tact male does not. He humped Zailey for the first two or so days off and on, but not since. I really think that in tact males are smarter about mounting to be honest.. and this is just in my observation. They seem to "get it" and only attempt to mount a female in season. In daycare, there are a lot of the super super hump-happy dogs, all of which are of course neutered. This is simply observation on my part.
> 
> 
> I think that it is one issue that each side has a lot of pros and cons, so you just have to do what makes sense to you. Having an in tact animal is a lot of responsibility. Remember, no one plans accidental litters, so assuming that it just won't happen without added effort on your part is unreasonable. I honestly don't think I would deal with a female's heats if it were a pet.


yeah i agree with what you're saying. on giant dogs newfoundlands for example, dont physically mature fully until 2..and leonbergers i think take until 3. I think large breeds still take a while also, so i would say 14-18 months is a good range for the large ones, and 18-24 for the giant.

as for your husband, you have to remember that testosterone is a powerful hormone. I disagree that he wouldn't notice it was gone! if you got some testosterone cream from your doctor and rubbed it all over him for a few months, he;d probably change physically and also temperament wise also.


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## Liz

Yes, girls need their hormones also especially during their growth period. I like girls spayed around 18 - 24 months for larger breeds and 12 - 18 months for small breed as they are done growing quicker. If you don't fell like you can or want to handle heats or keep her secure enough then I would definately spay early.


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## CorgiPaws

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> yeah i agree with what you're saying. on giant dogs newfoundlands for example, dont physically mature fully until 2..and leonbergers i think take until 3. I think large breeds still take a while also, so i would say 14-18 months is a good range for the large ones, and 18-24 for the giant.
> 
> as for your husband, you have to remember that testosterone is a powerful hormone. I disagree that he wouldn't notice it was gone! if you got some testosterone cream from your doctor and rubbed it all over him for a few months, he;d probably change physically and also temperament wise also.



Oh no, you misunderstood me! Husband wolf totally notice!!! Dog wouldn't. And I'm certain he would cringe at this conversation alone and the idea of him being castrated coming up!! LOL


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## RaisingWolves

PuppyPaws said:


> People may or may not agree with me, but here goes:
> 
> Giant breed dogs take much longer to mature than smaller breeds. I believe in later alteration of those dogs. Keep in mind, I am talking GIANT, not large here. I would spay/neuter a giant breed dog somewhere between 12 and 24 months, all just depending on their development.



Bullmastiffs and Dogue de Bordeaux's are considered x-large breed; all the breeders I contacted included a clause in puppy contract that would void any health guarantee if the dog was spayed/neutered prior to 24 months old. The average age growth plate closure for a large breed is 18 months and sex hormones close the plates.


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## RaisingWolves

Liz said:


> Poeple on this forum are incredible dog owners and would probably do a good job of protecting a dog from unwated pregancy until they matured. Most people on the other hand should just get their dogs spayed or neutered by 6 months old definately. The general public does not take the time, care or responsibility to keep an intact dog.


ITA! People who spend time researching the best diet and ask questions about the best health care for their pet are in a different class IMO. The average dog owner should spay/neuter by 6 months old. 
It's scary what I see on my walks with my dogs. There are people who will never see a dog for more than "just" an animal.


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## RaisingWolves

There is a surgeon who has been performing partial spays for several years now. He has some interesting views about the aging effects of removing the dog's ovaries. 
http://www.belfield.com/pdfs/Partial_Spay.pdf
I met a DDB breeder who would leave one ovary intact when spaying. She didn't vaccinate, fed raw. What I found completely amazing...she had 3 generations of worm free puppies. 

Exploring mechanisms of sex differences in longevity: lifetime ovary exposure and exceptional longevity in dogs - Waters - 2009 - Aging Cell - Wiley Online Library



GPMCF: Healthier Respect for Ovaries


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## 3Musketeers

My females are spayed. One was at 2 years, the other at 6 months. Popi, which got spayed at 6 months, is taller, lankier and more "fragile", her bones seem thinner, she has a smaller head, and while she doesn't have any issues by this, there is definitely a difference in development depending on when you spay/neuter a dog. Of course, I had to spay her early because I also have Sparky, my male. I didn't want to deal with females in heat anymore.

Sparky is intact, and no he does not hump everything or everyone. Sure, he will try to when he meets a new dog, male or female, but he gets over it after a while, and it'd definitely more of a training issue than anything hormonal, like an inappropriate greeting. He doesn't mark all over the place either, he will if he sees another dog running around outside, then he has to mark a few trees, and he also doesn't always lift his leg, like in the mornings, he's just too sleepy man, LOL. On outings however, yes he does go and try to mark every tree, but if I tell him no he will listen and ignore the tree so it can be trained out of him, somewhat. I do make sure that there's no way for him to escape, and he's supervised whenever he goes to the yard, though to be honest, he's better at the wait command (and don't go out the open gate, which btw leads to a second fenced-in area) than the girls do.
The only reason I haven't, and probably won't neuter him is because 1. he never gets out unless it's on a leash, 2. most of the "issues" he has can be trained out of him when I have enough patience, they probably won't go away even if I neuter him, 3. he's not some out of control hump machine, he's very good with people.

The easiest way to prevent accidental breedings is to spay/neuter. Waiting until at least 1-2 years would probably be best, just so the dog can develop better. Both the testosterone and the estrogen are important for them to grow correctly. However I don't judge those who choose not to spay/neuter as long as they can responsibly own a dog. It's those who let their females in heat run around all over, or who purposely post on craigslist they want to breed their mutt who should never even own a dog.


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## MollyWoppy

Mollie is spayed, as is Windy the cat. Mol was spayed at 6mo old, as that's what my vet recommended, and I didn't even know enough to argue with him at that stage. Knowing what I know now, I'd definitely still spay her, but I think I would wait until she'd had her first heat, or even maybe, do a partial spay.
(My cat was already spayed when I got her, being a rescue and I have absolutely zilch knowledge about growth problems/spaying in cats).
However, all my future animals will be rescues, so I think speying will be something that will be taken out of my hands.


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## lauren43

3Musketeers said:


> My females are spayed. One was at 2 years, the other at 6 months. Popi, which got spayed at 6 months, is taller, lankier and more "fragile", her bones seem thinner, she has a smaller head, and while she doesn't have any issues by this, there is definitely a difference in development depending on when you spay/neuter a dog.


This could be a genetic difference and completely unrelated to the "early" spay. There is no real way to know.


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## RaisingWolves

lauren43 said:


> This could be a genetic difference and completely unrelated to the "early" spay. There is no real way to know.


There have been studies that show dogs spayed/neutered early grow significantly taller and significant delay in growth plate closure.
A study by Salmeri et al in 1991-Salmeri et al JAVMA 1991;198:1193-1203.


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## SpooOwner

If you check the archive, this topic comes up very often - more than once/month.

As most have noted, it is optimal for a bitch's/dog's health to not spay/neuter. However, most of us - even us hyper-responsible dog owners - can't abide by this. The individual dog's health is often, and for good reason, outweighed by societal concerns and pragmatism (we don't need more oops dogs and it is rather nice to be able to board your dogs/take them to doggy daycare). So the question becomes not if but when to spay/neuter. And the answer is the same for bitches and dogs - when she/he is fully mature. Again, that's the optimal answer, and may be outweighed by other concerns.

A secondary issue that was raised in this thread is what type of spay to perform: an OVH (common in the States) or OVE (preferred everywhere else). In an OVH, the ovaries and uterus are removed; in an OVE, only the ovaries are removed. For this reason, the OVE is optimal, as the surgery is less invasive and allows the uterus to continue to regulate and supply hormones. Be aware as well that with some of the breeds you are considering, you may also want to have the bitch pexied (for "gastropexy") to reduce the likelihood of torsion (followed swiftly by death) during an episode of bloat. Danes are particularly susceptible; I believe the affected rate remains around 40%. A vet can perform both the pexy and the spay in one procedure.

If you'd like to learn more about the effects of spay/neuter and how the effects vary by age, I suggest the following articles:

http://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/LongTermHealthEffectsOfSpayNeuterInDogs.
An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie
http://www.caninesports.com/SNBehaviorBoneDataSnapShot.pdf
Canine Sports Productions: Early Spay-Neuter Considerations for the Canine Athlete


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## doggiedad

i've never had my dogs neutered.


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## 1605

Our male GSP is not neutered. We also do not plan to neuter the new dog.


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## Scarlett_O'

Brody was cut at 6 months old, as was his sister-they went in together. He has since filled out VERY much and muscled up quite well....however his sister is pretty much EXACTLY the same size as she was when they went to the vet! However they are a mix of 4 breeds, and their grandma on their sire's side had problems with mammary cyst so I felt that it was best for Roxie to be done early...and living in a studio with her mommie(my best friend) she didnt need to have the stress of a heat cycle!

Leo was done at 18 months old, he has issues, but I dont feel that any of those are related to his being neutered, and we wouldnt have got him had he not been! As he lacks training as it is, I would hate to think of him not having training AND hormones!!

Rhett, IF he is neutered(which I dont think he will be) will be done no sooner then 24 months! I will continue to watch his temperament and decide from there.

I also waited until Ducki Kitti was 11 months old to have her fixed.

However all 3 of our dogs growing up where not done till 6-7 years old, our Basset passed from cancer when she was 12.(The vet said that he didnt believe it was not related to being fixed so late in life.) My Beau passed this year from totally unrelated issues and Bonnie is still doing great at 15! (None of them ever had any other issues.)


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## SerenityFL

mel2mdl said:


> Top ten reasons for spaying or neutering your pet were killed at the pound this morning...


:thumb::thumb::thumb::thumb::thumb::thumb::thumb::thumb: a thousand times over.

My hoodlums are fixed and were done at six months. They are over a year old now and I would say the boy is the absolute opposite of depressed and tired or whatever it was. 

I don't understand why people say they have to be a year or more...never heard any thing like that until I came to this forum. I've had all of my cats and dogs in life fixed by 6 months old and have never seen any side affects from doing so. Regardless of the reasons, this time around I HAD to because I have a boy and a girl and even though they are siblings, animals don't seem to be so particular about who they want to get jiggy with it.


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## Scarlett_O'

SerenityFL said:


> *I have a boy and a girl and even though they are siblings, animals don't seem to be so particular about who they want to get jiggy with it.*


That was our reason for getting Brody and his sister done earlier then I planed for Brody! Even though she doesnt live with us we watch her regularly and during her first heat(at 4.5 months old) it was horrid cause she couldnt come over for 4.5 weeks...I SWEAR she was just holding out to see him!!!:suspicious::wacko::embarassed: Which was SOOO not going to happen on my watch!!:nono::nono:


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## Dog Walker

My Dog and Cat are both neutered. Both came from rescues/shelters. Cosmo the cat was neutered at 2months old and my dog Jake was neutered at 4months old. The shelter my cat came from requires all dogs, cats and rabbits to be fixed before they go on the floor. My dog has never humped anything and 90% of the time he squats to pee. He only lifts his leg on walks or when he feels he needs to remark our fence. I also see no problems with my cat, he is a mutt cat and is pretty large but has no real problems other than normal cat hate . Working in a shelter I think it is best to get your pet fixed as soon as possible because we do have a stray problem and puppy mill problem in my state.

My friend did not get her chihuahua spayed until she was 2 years old and thats only because there was something wrong with her reproductive system that if not taken out would have killed her. She's a chihuahua so she never was super active but she still is full of energy when she feels like it, her temperment has not changed since I've known her.


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## magicre

SerenityFL said:


> :thumb::thumb::thumb::thumb::thumb::thumb::thumb::thumb: a thousand times over.
> 
> My hoodlums are fixed and were done at six months. They are over a year old now and I would say the boy is the absolute opposite of depressed and tired or whatever it was.
> 
> I don't understand why people say they have to be a year or more...never heard any thing like that until I came to this forum. I've had all of my cats and dogs in life fixed by 6 months old and have never seen any side affects from doing so. Regardless of the reasons, this time around I HAD to because I have a boy and a girl and even though they are siblings, animals don't seem to be so particular about who they want to get jiggy with it.


don't know if it's true.....i used to do the same as you...and then a vet i went to advised me to wait because of hormonal and physical maturity....made sense.....so that's what i do now.

with rescues, it's not always easy to do that....they will fix them at whatever age you're getting them. but if you're in control.....waiting is a good thing....gives them a chance to grow hair on their chest. for the boys, at least.....

for the girls and boys.......gives their pelvic and bone structures time to finish their growing.


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## Maxy24

Vets and rescues want you to fix your animals by 6 months so that they are done before they are capable of getting pregnant. Preventing a litter is more important than the chance of health conditions caused to the individual dogs by being fixed before they are completely done growing. This is also why they tell you a bunch of health problems and behavioral problems that can occur more often in intact animals and say that spaying and neutering has no down side. I tend to agree preventing litters is more important than preventing health problems. However if people are responsible enough to prevent litters without spaying and neutering, who cares whether or not they do it? Just because your dog has balls doesn't mean you are going to let him use them. It's a HUGE pet peeve of mine when people say "responsible pet owners spay and neuter", no, responsible pet owners prevent litters, they don't have to surgically alter their dog to do that.


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## RawFedDogs

SerenityFL said:


> I don't understand why people say they have to be a year or more...never heard any thing like that until I came to this forum.


I know that with Great Danes, and this probably applies to most other breeds too, males shouldn't be neutered until growth has stopped because they need testosterone to develop that "male look". The big head and muscular body. I don't know what effect spaying has on physical development.


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## magicre

Maxy24 said:


> Vets and rescues want you to fix your animals by 6 months so that they are done before they are capable of getting pregnant. Preventing a litter is more important than the chance of health conditions caused to the individual dogs by being fixed before they are completely done growing. This is also why they tell you a bunch of health problems and behavioral problems that can occur more often in intact animals and say that spaying and neutering has no down side. I tend to agree preventing litters is more important than preventing health problems. However if people are responsible enough to prevent litters without spaying and neutering, who cares whether or not they do it? Just because your dog has balls doesn't mean you are going to let him use them. It's a HUGE pet peeve of mine when people say "responsible pet owners spay and neuter", no, responsible pet owners prevent litters, they don't have to surgically alter their dog to do that.


i can understand the point of view from vets and rescues.....too many people are not responsible enough to keep their dogs' parts away from other dogs...

but i can't agree that anything is more important than preventing health problems down the road, because those same dogs end up being put down, given up....so the road is littered with either litters or dead dogs...then again, i am living in a bubble of ideal thinking.

i do agree that responsible owners prevent litters....wish there were more of us, eh?


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## 3Musketeers

lauren43 said:


> This could be a genetic difference and completely unrelated to the "early" spay. There is no real way to know.


Not when it's mother/daughter. (which should have never happened but I was an ignorant kiddo)


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## lauren43

Below is a statment from a vet I know love and trust. Perhaps waiting isn't always best even healthwise. I have read some articles that agree with the statement below I haven't been able to find them again though..Definately going to keep searching as this is a very interesting topic to me!



> Each time a female dog go through a heat cycle their risk for mammary cancer increases signficantly. It is best to spay before the first heat cycle, which can occur anytime after 6 months of age.
> 
> It IS true that there is some increased risk of hormone incontinence in dogs spayed as "pediatrics" though any spayed female can get it.
> 
> The ideal age to spay is 6 months. This reduces risk of incontinence, mammary cancer, and prevents other cancers and pyometra. Like Meg said, as a rescue we spay early to protect the population as a whole.
> 
> In males, there are no risks of neutering young and the only risks of waiting are allowing the dog to develop certain diseeases (prostate disease, testicular cancer, perineal hernias, perianal tumors). The timing isn't as urgent in a male. I still strongly encourage neuter at around 6 months of age.


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## lucky

I had lucky spayed when she was 12 months old, about 3 months after her first season ... IMO it was the right time for her, all dogs are different though, bigger dogs usually benefit from being speutered a little later that smaller ones


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## RaisingWolves

Something to consider if your breed is prone to certain types of cancer(mastiffs are prone to bone cancer)....
Cancer Considerations
A retrospective study of cardiac tumors in dogs showed that there was a 5 times greater risk of hemangiosarcoma, one of the three most common cancers in dogs, in spayed bitches than intact bitches and a 2.4 times greater risk of hemangiosarcoma in neutered dogs as compared to intact males.(7) A study of 3218 dogs demonstrated that dogs that were neutered before a year of age had a significantly increased chance of developing bone cancer.(8) A separate study showed that neutered dogs had a two-fold higher risk of developing bone cancer.(9) Despite the common belief that neutering dogs helps prevent prostate cancer, at least one study suggests that neutering provides no benefit.(10) There certainly is evidence of a slightly increased risk of mammary cancer in female dogs after one heat cycle, and for increased risk with each subsequent heat. While about 30 % of mammary cancers are malignant, as in humans, when caught and surgically removed early the prognosis is very good.(12) Luckily, canine athletes are handled frequently and generally receive prompt veterinary care.


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## CorgiPaws

I think that while there are health benefits, particularly for bigger dogs, to delay neutering/spaying or forgo it entirely, the majority of the pet owning population are not educated nor dedicated enough to responsibly own an in tact animal. It does take extra precaution, and it is a big responsibility. Accidental litters happen very, very easily if certain precautions and measures are not taken and done with due diligence. For that reason I think that most owners should alter their pets BEFORE being fertile. I can not tell you how many females get pregnant their first heat because they were not in the hands of a responsible, educated owner. Nor how many in tact males get out because they smell a female in heat, and either get hit by a car or worse. 
I think any cat that is EVER let outside ought to be fixed, too.


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## Chocx2

I have to say that only one of my rascles is fixed, and it was in the contract, and at one year of age I thought he was going to be aggressive because he bit a dog at a event. Fixing him didn't change his personality he still has a red pillow he loves every night after his meal lol never had a dog that was like that before but what ever. Turns out he is not aggressive, just likes to herd everyone, no sudden moves. Every other animal I have ever owned has been intact including horses and I have never had a problem. My doberman rescue died of "breast cancer" but she was almost 15 years old I would say at that point it was normal. I always take precautions, most people just don't like to deal with the mess, maybe just no hassles is easier to deal with. But I look at this way no one fixed me and so far I'm doing ok. lol Also have never had any litters or incidents..


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## RaisingWolves

Chocx2 said:


> Also have never had any litters or incidents..


I grew up with 2 intact bitches....not one litter.


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## lauren43

I have one reason for spaying and neutering my pets, overpopulation. This goes for nearly every pet we keep in our homes. I would even be happy if it became a law with exceptions to ethical breeders. I realize this opinion may not be the most popular, but GREAT pets are dying everyday in shelters. They die alone and are lucky if one or two staff members shows interest in them (and I do realize some shelters are better than others, but the ones that have mass killing days are the ones I am currently referring to). These dogs are not dying because they are sick or aggressive or old, just simply because they ended up in the wrong place at the wrong time, with no one to love them. 

Like these unfortunate souls:
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Without urgent help most of these dogs will be gone in the next couple of days...

Or these
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Or these (lots of pups here)
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## RaisingWolves

I understand what you are saying Lauren, but that doesn't change the fact that I will make the best health decisions for MY dog. I will not put my dog's health at risk because early speuter is the popular choice. God help us if government takes away our right to make conscience health decisions for our dogs(in reality our property).

This was posted on the boxer forum in response to mandatory sterilizations laws in LA....

*These laws have not worked in any area in which they've been tried: euthanizations initially increase, as pet owners who can't afford the surgery or the increased intact license abandon their animals; licensing compliance decreases, as people 'go underground' rather than pay exorbitant fees or apply for dubious exemptions which may or may not be granted at the whim of the Animal Control Officer; rabies vaccination decreases, as many fear vets will report vaccinated dogs to licensing agencies (and some areas actually require vets to do this); animal control expenditures increase while revenues decrease (correlated to increased shelter intakes/euthanasias and decreased licensing compliance, respectively); and over time euthansias decrease at a slower rate than in areas without mandatory sterilization laws. *Given the fact that about 70-80% of all owned dogs and cats in LA are already sterilized, this law is a bit of overkill - but it plays quite well into the animal rights agenda of no more pets.

Groups that are challenging the laws

http://www.carpoc.org/

http://www.cdoca.org/


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## KlaMarie

Rayne won't be spayed until 1.5-2 years because 1) it's in the contract from her breeder, and 2) after months of research, I've decided it's what's best for her. There won't be any "oops" litters, there won't be any litters period! So there really is no reason to spay her, in regards to number of dogs in the shelters. 

And RaisingWolves has it right. The people that are really contributing to the overpopulation at the shelters are the same type of people who wouldn't give a flip if spay/neuter was mandatory by law. It's just like BSL, it's wrong (IMO) and it doesn't work anyway!


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## RaisingWolves

Seven False Premises of Mandatory Spay-Neuter Laws

Testimony of Dr. John Hamil regarding AB 1634. The phrase "mandatory sterilization" is substituted for "AB 1634" in some sentences. The rest of the text is unaltered.


Twenty five years of experience in trying to find solutions to the problems of animal relinquishment and euthanasia leads me to request that you reject this ill-conceived bill which can not solve these problems and, more likely, will worsen them.

Mandatory sterilization is based on seven false premises:

1. That current policies and programs are not working.


The numbers of dogs entering and being euthanized in California shelters has dramatically decreased over the last 30 years in the face continued population growth. Unfortunately, the number of cats impounded and euthanized has not decreased significantly in the last 10 years. We have two entirely different dynamics which require very different approaches if we are to be successful. Mandatory sterilization does nothing to reduce the numbers of cats in shelters.

2. That the numbers of animals impounded and euthanized is due to a “Pet Overpopulation Problem.”

The study done by the National Council on Pet Population Study and Policy found that the top five reasons for animal relinquishment were moving, landlord issues, cost, lack of time for pet and inadequate facilities. None of these factors are influenced by the purported “overpopulation” of pets mandated sterilization does nothing to help pets remain in their homes. If the animals in the shelter were due to “overpopulation;” we would find desirable puppies available in shelters, there would be no market for internet and pet store puppies, there would be no need for shelters to import puppies and puppy smugglers and brokers would be out of business due to market saturation. There is, in fact, a shortage of healthy, well-bred and socialized puppies and kittens in California.

3. That being sexually intact equates to being bred.


We know that for personal reasons many owners choose not to surgically alter their pets and they are never bred. It is improper that the government impose its will on these responsible citizens in the absence of any public benefit.

4. That neutered animals are healthier physically and behaviorally.


Recently published data indicates that for a significant percentage of dogs this is not the case.

5. That mandatory spay/neuter will significantly reduce shelter impounds and euthanasia and that Santa Cruz is an example of its success.

MSN is a documented failure. Analysis of the Santa Cruz data and the rejection of this policy by its originator; the Peninsula Humane Society, the No Kill Community, Best Friends Sanctuary, and many other groups refutes this assumption.

6. That mandatory spay/neuter will greatly reduce the Animal Control costs.

Analysis of animal control data indicates that most costs are the fixed costs of facilities; administration, equipment, staff and retirement benefits. The continuous rise in California animal control costs in the face of decreasing numbers of animals impounded refutes this assumption.


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## lauren43

If its not irresponsible breeding and oops litters that are causing the overpopulation issue, than what is it? I can't tell you how many ppl I have met that said oh my friend breeds dogs (and clearly not responsibly, as I have seen some of these dogs and they are far from the standard) or my aunt bred her dog or I think I am going to let my dog have one litter before we spay her. I realize what you are saying about it "not working" as I do not agree with BSL and that dogs are being wrongly accused of being "aggressive" because of their breed alone. 

But something has to change. I appreciate pure breds just as much as the next person and I do believe they have a place in the world, I just hate watching helpless dogs die day after day. I mean most ferrets sold in pet stores are altered (not that I agree about where they came from or how this is done) but no one thinks twice about this, and people enjoy their altered pets just the same.

Also remember everything you have posted is from one perspective and taken at face value. The article I posted below basically says everything you have said, but it needs to be noted that things like obesity, diabetes, some cancers can be effected by diet. The diets of the dogs in these studies were not noted and that could easily sway results, especially when dogs could be fed anything from ol' roy to table scraps. I realize that this study was simply comparing the effects of spaying and neutering, but each individual dog will be different (as they mentioned, and using one breed over another could change the data, the data for mutts could be completely different).

Honestly I would even be happy if they just said females had to be spayed before their first heat, although this may not be the popular choice for larger breed dogs, dogs that are prone to bone cancer, the risk of mammary cancer increases after just one cycle. My other question would be, how old where these dogs when they developed mammary tumors or bone cancer, if the dogs were a mere 5 years of age, that is an issue. But if these dogs were 10 or older, cancer is to be expected. Even in humans, it is common to get some type of cancer as you age, until a cure is found it is going to be a hard thing to avoid altogether (and I do understand doing everything in your power to avoid it).
http://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/longtermhealtheffectsofspayneuterindogs.pdf


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5

Chocx2 said:


> I have to say that only one of my rascles is fixed, and it was in the contract, and at one year of age I thought he was going to be aggressive because he bit a dog at a event. Fixing him didn't change his personality he still has a red pillow he loves every night after his meal lol never had a dog that was like that before but what ever. Turns out he is not aggressive, just likes to herd everyone, no sudden moves. Every other animal I have ever owned has been intact including horses and I have never had a problem. My doberman rescue died of "breast cancer" but she was almost 15 years old I would say at that point it was normal. I always take precautions, most people just don't like to deal with the mess, maybe just no hassles is easier to deal with. But I look at this way no one fixed me and so far I'm doing ok. lol Also have never had any litters or incidents..


well i guess this thread doesnt matter anymore..i adopted a great pyrenees today named winston, and he is 2.5..but he arrived at the rescue at 2, and was already fixed...and who knows how old he was when they got him.
he's only about 100 pounds(110 once hes been home for a whie according to his history)....but that's the breed standard for a pyr anyway..he;s only small cause most people breed them to be bigger than they should.

he lifts his leg, but is not a humper so far..and looks nice and thick to me..although the rescue told us he needs to gain weight to 110.
if i got a puppy, i would wait till 18 months minimum.


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## RaisingWolves

You may be surprised to know the AMVA opposes mandatory spay/neuter.



AVMA: Mandatory spay/neuter a bad idea

*AVMA: Mandatory spay/neuter a bad idea*




Cat The AVMA policy on "Dog and Cat Population Control" has been revised to express the Association's nonsupport for regulations or laws mandating spay/neuter of privately owned, nonshelter dogs and cats.

The Animal Welfare Committee recommended the changes to the policy, which reads, in part, as follows: "The AVMA does not support regulations or legislation mandating spay/neuter of privately owned, non-shelter dogs and cats. Although spaying and neutering helps control dog and cat populations, mandatory approaches may contribute to pet owners avoiding licensing, rabies vaccination and veterinary care for their pets, and may have other unintended consequences."

The policy was adopted in November 2004 and considered by the AWC in accord with the five-year review directive. After review and discussion, committee members agreed that the AVMA should not support regulations or legislation mandating spay/neuter of privately owned, nonshelter dogs and cats for a number of reasons, which were provided in the background of the recommended policy changes.

Although spay/neuter is an important part of effective population control programs, and may benefit individual dogs and cats if performed at the appropriate time, whether and when to spay/neuter specific animals requires the application of science and professional judgment to ensure the best outcome for veterinary patients and their owners. Prevention of unexpected litters; reduced incidences of some cancers and reproductive diseases; and prevention and amelioration of certain undesirable behaviors have been documented as benefits to spaying/neutering dogs and cats. However, potential health problems associated with spaying and neutering have also been identified, including an increased risk of prostatic cancer in males; increased risks of bone cancer and hip dysplasia in large-breed dogs associated with sterilization before maturity; and increased incidences of obesity, diabetes, urinary tract infections, urinary incontinence, and hypothyroidism.

There are conflicting reports regarding euthanasia rates and animal control costs achieved in communities that have enacted mandatory spay/neuter.

Mandating spay/neuter can increase canine, feline, and zoonotic disease risks because some people will attempt to avoid detection of their unaltered pets by failing to seek veterinary care.

The AVMA policy on "Dog and Cat Population Control" can be read along with other Association policies at American Veterinary Medical Association in the Scientific section under Policy.


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## RaisingWolves

lauren43 said:


> But something has to change./QUOTE]
> 
> I agree, but taking away our right to make health decisions for our pets is not the answer.
> The money needs to be spent on educating pet owners. Start young, introduce what it means to be a responsible pet owner in elementary schools.
> 
> It's sad, I watch my neighbor walk with her dog off leash with her young child tagging along. We have leash laws and her pet off leash is a problem (running in everyone's garden).
> 
> 
> I know I will never speuter a dog before sexual maturity. They need hormones to fuse growth plates. Studies have proven this.
> My sister neutered her male corgi at 4 months old, and one of his growth plates grew too long; one stopped growing the other continued. It cost $1200 to even the growth plate. Unfortunately it caused his foot to grow east and he now has a permanent limp. The orthopedic surgeon told her this was NOT a genetic disorder.


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## 3Musketeers

I don't think spay/neuter should be mandatory, but I do believe the "awareness" needs to be better put out to the general public. Sure there where will always be people who will breed a dog because it's "cute" and for them it should be mandatory, cause they might never understand otherwise. 
But a lot of "oops litters" could be prevented just by having more information out there, as in your vet's office, your local pet supply store. Not a little brochure in the corner of the room, but something more prominent, maybe let it be on tv too, just not those depressing commercials with the sad looking animals. 
Unfortunately, a lot of people just don't know about when to spay/neuter, other people can barely afford it (luckily there are low-cost clinics, but most vets charge a fortune), and others need to be told straight out to stop purposely breeding their mutts who will end up in shelters cause they can't find anybody who wants to buy them.


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## Maxy24

The government better not put my dogs' lives or health at risk because some idiots lets their intact animals run loose (how about enforcing laws we already have, leash laws) or because of back yard breeders. And I REALLY hope the government doesn't get to decide what an ethical breeder is. Responsible people keeping intact pets shouldn't be punished by being forced to put their dogs through surgery, that's just wrong. They haven't done anything wrong. It's like banning pit bulls in the city because there is a lot of dog fighting there. They figure if they ban pit bulls they'll stamp out dog fighters. Unfortunately they stamp out people who just want nice pets too.


I agree there should be a LOT more education though and more available and affordable spay and neuter clinics, especially in areas where people's dogs run loose. I might even be okay with permission being given to organizations to spay/neuter loose dogs in an area. If you are letting your dogs run loose you shouldn't be having them intact (or maybe having them at all).


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## whiteleo

PuppyPaws said:


> People may or may not agree with me, but here goes:
> 
> Giant breed dogs take much longer to mature than smaller breeds. I believe in later alteration of those dogs. Keep in mind, I am talking GIANT, not large here. I would spay/neuter a giant breed dog somewhere between 12 and 24 months, all just depending on their development.
> If I were getting a medium/large breed dog, I would go ahead any neuter/spay at 8-12 months, hopefully before the female's first heat.
> I would not hesitate to spay/neuter a small breed dog between 6-9 months.
> 
> On testosterone effecting mood: I'm fairly certain if I castrated my husband, he'd suffer psychological damage. :tongue: He's human, and capable of far more complex thinking and reasoning. A dog, however, doesn't really notice they're gone! I've had a couple neutered males in my life, and none of which have ever seemed depressed or aggravated. I would put that worry to rest.
> 
> On humping: My neutered male humps everything. My in tact male does not. He humped Zailey for the first two or so days off and on, but not since. I really think that in tact males are smarter about mounting to be honest.. and this is just in my observation. They seem to "get it" and only attempt to mount a female in season. In daycare, there are a lot of the super super hump-happy dogs, all of which are of course neutered. This is simply observation on my part.
> 
> 
> I think that it is one issue that each side has a lot of pros and cons, so you just have to do what makes sense to you. Having an in tact animal is a lot of responsibility. Remember, no one plans accidental litters, so assuming that it just won't happen without added effort on your part is unreasonable. I honestly don't think I would deal with a female's heats if it were a pet.


I totally agree with what PuppyPaws has written, on a side note, my brothers girlfriend, the ones who hate the fact that I raw feed and have Frenchies and a few other dogs. Well, her well bred German Shepherd who she says she loves, I say that with the utmost teeth grinding, as she lives in a pen "outside" was just taken in to be SPAYED at 61/2 yrs old, she was never bred and wouldn't you know it she has a tumor that has spread from the ovaries into her tummy.

I say ignorant people shouldn't have dogs!


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## magicre

whiteleo said:


> I totally agree with what PuppyPaws has written, on a side note, my brothers girlfriend, the ones who hate the fact that I raw feed and have Frenchies and a few other dogs. Well, her well bred German Shepherd who she says she loves, I say that with the utmost teeth grinding, as she lives in a pen "outside" was just taken in to be SPAYED at 61/2 yrs old, she was never bred and wouldn't you know it she has a tumor that has spread from the ovaries into her tummy.
> 
> I say ignorant people shouldn't have dogs!


agreed....and that's karma at its worst...poor dog. living in a pen....outside...why have a dog.


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## RaisingWolves

whiteleo said:


> I say ignorant people shouldn't have dogs!



Or human children!


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## magicre

3Musketeers said:


> I don't think spay/neuter should be mandatory, but I do believe the "awareness" needs to be better put out to the general public. Sure there where will always be people who will breed a dog because it's "cute" and for them it should be mandatory, cause they might never understand otherwise.
> But a lot of "oops litters" could be prevented just by having more information out there, as in your vet's office, your local pet supply store. Not a little brochure in the corner of the room, but something more prominent, maybe let it be on tv too, just not those depressing commercials with the sad looking animals.
> Unfortunately, a lot of people just don't know about when to spay/neuter, other people can barely afford it (luckily there are low-cost clinics, but most vets charge a fortune), and others need to be told straight out to stop purposely breeding their mutts who will end up in shelters cause they can't find anybody who wants to buy them.


i don't know. i wish people were smarter than they are....even my own sister in law.....whilst she neuters her animals...doesn't pay all that much attention...didn't realise her cat was dying....wasn't going to go to the vet...

says she loves them, but does she really?

maybe there should be a mandatory test or something to keep these unwanted litters at bay....i've rescued so many dogs....and i've spent so much money doing so....for these oops litters....there are days i wish spaying and neutering were mandatory....

maxy...leash laws, too....that IS mandatory and we all know how many people follow THAT one.


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## whiteleo

RaisingWolves said:


> Or human children!


That's why I didn't have any! No, the fact is there are plenty of children out there who need homes and families.


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## RaisingWolves

I wish there was a law requiring ALL dog owners to attend at least one 6 week session of puppy/dog training. I think it should be a requirement for anyone buying a dog. 
I take every dog I own through training classes. I feel it keeps me on my toes as a dog owner and is the perfect way to bond with my new family member.


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## KittyKat

Piper just went into heat.... at 9 months, which is early for a whippet! She has her first show this weekend too, and another show next weekend. Fun times. 

Now of course i'm worried she'll get off the leash and try and hump some dog when she fully goes into estrus or w/e you call it.... /sigh


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## PUNKem733

Shaggy is not.


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## lucky

There are way too many BYB's around these days, I am ashamed to say that my dad and his fiance has bred 2 different breeds TWICE (dachshund with a mixed terrier), much to my horror, I tried and tried and tried to talk them out of it but they didn't want to know, they allowed it to happen and there was nothing I could do about it. In my experience some people (my dad and his fiance for an example) only see what they want to see and will refuse to see it any other way, it could be right there in black and white but they will still insist that they are right.
My dads fiance even came to me with the idea of breeding her male chihuahua with my precious lucky :shocked: , ha, no way would I ever allow that to happen, she is spayed now so I don't get offers like that anymore thank god


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## Scarlett_O'

lucky said:


> There are way too many BYB's around these days, I am ashamed to say that my dad and his fiance has bred 2 different breeds TWICE (dachshund with a mixed terrier), much to my horror, I tried and tried and tried to talk them out of it but they didn't want to know, they allowed it to happen and there was nothing I could do about it. In my experience some people (my dad and his fiance for an example) only see what they want to see and will refuse to see it any other way, it could be right there in black and white but they will still insist that they are right.
> My dads fiance even came to me with the idea of breeding her male chihuahua with my precious lucky :shocked: , ha, no way would I ever allow that to happen, she is spayed now so I don't get offers like that anymore thank god


That is, sadly, how one of my friends is. That is how I ended up with Brody, she allowed her Pug and her Pug/Lhasa/CKCS/Shih Tzu to breed. However, once she had to take care of the pups her self because of her Pug being a HORRID Mummy she got her fixed(I believe, all I know is that she hasnt had any more babies, daddy dog still has his balls, and Brody is 19 months old!LOL) (Thus the reason that Brody got chopped at 6 months old!!)


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## lucky

They didn't enjoy looking after the puppies either, the dachshund was a good mum but when the puppies were about 7 weeks she didn't want to know and would try and get away from them, that left 5 howling puppies that they could not handle. At 8 weeks my cousin took 2 and my dad begged me to find homes for the 3 that were left, at the time I was living in a studio flat that didn't allow pets, me being too soft though I agreed and so I had 3 puppies tearing my flat apart ... I managed to find all 3 of them good homes after about a week, 2 of them went together to a large family and the last one went to a retired woman who wanted a companion, those puppies were very lucky to get homes, too many get sent to the pound


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## Scarlett_O'

lucky said:


> They didn't enjoy looking after the puppies either, the dachshund was a good mum but when the puppies were about 7 weeks she didn't want to know and would try and get away from them, that left 5 howling puppies that they could not handle. At 8 weeks my cousin took 2 and my dad begged me to find homes for the 3 that were left, at the time I was living in a studio flat that didn't allow pets, me being too soft though I agreed and so I had 3 puppies tearing my flat apart ... I managed to find all 3 of them good homes after about a week, 2 of them went together to a large family and the last one went to a retired woman who wanted a companion, those puppies were very lucky to get homes, too many get sent to the pound


Ya know, that is what really disappointed me about my friend breeding these two dogs...she is a GREAT dog owner, and horse woman.......but I dont know what got into her about them...it just saddened me! She took great care of the puppies after going to work with 7 pups and coming home to Momma dog LAYING on 2 of them having killed them! (she took time off of work and took care of them and made sure that they got great homes...but the allowing to breed made me so frustrated!)


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## meggels

Ugh, I was working at an adoption event today, and this guy brought in 3 five week old dobe/lab mixes. He wanted them to be "adopted" but wanted $100 for each of them. his dog got pregnant because the spay/neuter clinic "never called him back about the free spay surgery"....


SERIOUSLY!?


1) 5 weeks old, no vaccines, THEY SHOULD NOT BE AT THIS ADOPTION EVENT! They were crying and clearly just wanted to be with their mom. 
2) That's your reason for why your dog got pregnant? Give me a break. 

I had such a hard time biting my tongue. Luckily, a vet tech from the vet office I go to is going to adopt one of them, so at least one of them will be going to good hands. But god, what an idiot.


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## lucky

Scarlett_O' said:


> Ya know, that is what really disappointed me about my friend breeding these two dogs...she is a GREAT dog owner, and horse woman.......but I dont know what got into her about them...it just saddened me! She took great care of the puppies after going to work with 7 pups and coming home to Momma dog LAYING on 2 of them having killed them! (she took time off of work and took care of them and made sure that they got great homes...but the allowing to breed made me so frustrated!)


When my dad and his OH bred their dogs it was like they got bored of the puppies within a few weeks, like the novelty wore off (pathetic I know) but that was what it was like, if I am being honest and had my way they would not be allowed to keep un altered dogs, whether they should keep dogs at all is a big ?, they seriously have no control over them, they constantly bark, I mean from the minute they go out into the garden, they are a nuisance. My dads fiance babies them and it's only making them worse, thankfully though the 2 boys are neutered. I know that he is my dad and I don't want to be a b*tch but he has no idea


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## Scarlett_O'

lucky said:


> When my dad and his OH bred their dogs it was like they got bored of the puppies within a few weeks, like the novelty wore off (pathetic I know) but that was what it was like, if I am being honest and had my way they would not be allowed to keep un altered dogs, whether they should keep dogs at all is a big ?, they seriously have no control over them, they constantly bark, I mean from the minute they go out into the garden, they are a nuisance. My dads fiance babies them and it's only making them worse, thankfully though the 2 boys are neutered. I know that he is my dad and I don't want to be a b*tch but he has no idea


AH...that is sad, and Im SURE it is VERY annoying for you as a GOOD dog owner!! I know my inlaws with their untrained, "what ever is on sale" krapple fed, min-pin/x make me mad enough...but at least after seeing Brody's sister go thru one heat before she could get fixed it caused them to get her fixed!!


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