# Disturbing finds



## greyshadows (Jan 30, 2012)

Been poking around the Internet today checking out news about dog foods and treats etc and saw a couple of potentially unnerving things:
1. Turns out that Garret Merrick (CEO of Merrick Pet Care) owns a HUGE rendering plant, which is located in Hereford, TX. I did a map search for more info. Turns out that that the Hereford Rendering Plant is located at the SAME LOCATION as Merrick Pet Care Plant!!! It's one and the same!
Could it be?........
2. The Wellness brand was spun off into Wellpet LLC which then was acquired by Berwind Corp. a couple of years ago,makers of chemicals and famously ELMERS GLUE! Now I know about horses and glue....Also, I know someone who lives in MA where Wellness used to be made, but they say that plant is closed. Can't find out where Wellness is made now or if they even make it anymore themselves. 

It is truly amazing what you can find out now. Kind of scares me but I suppose it was always this way we just didn't have the web to easily access it.

Let me know of anymore disturbing or curious finds you guys know of!


----------



## Unosmom (May 3, 2009)

Merrick also make a food called Beef N More which is just awful, I've never cared much for this company. 


Ingredients:
Beef, Ground Yellow Corn, Beef and Bone Meal, Wheat, Wheat Middlings, Soybean Meal, Corn Gluten Meal, Animal Fat, Flaxseed, Yeast Culture, Fish Meal , Salt, Potassium Chloride, Dicalcium Phosphate, Calcium Carbonate, Choline Chloride, Zinc Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Dried Whole Whey, Vitamin E, Manganese Proteinate, Vitamin A Supplement, Beta Carotene, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Copper Proteinate, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Vitamin D3, Niacin, Lecithin, Riboflavin Supplement, Biotin, Ethylenediamine Dihydriodide, Pytidoxine Hydrochloride, Cobalt Proteinate, Folic Acid, Thiamine Mononitrate, Sodium Selenate.


Merrick Pet Foods - Pet Foods

heres something else I found
http://thepetfoodlist.com/forums/index.php?topic=205.0


----------



## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Good detective work!!! 

I have long believed there are maybe 2-3 companies that make the vast majority of dog foods. We can pay more or less, but the slop they cook down is all mixed in the same vat. Maybe they just don't use the corn vat for some foods.


----------



## brandypup (Jan 23, 2012)

Intresting. I always thought merrick was a good food. I know the Old Mother Hubbard was a sub par brand off the wellness brand..I think that was it... I can't recall now. That was long ago when I worked at a pet store. I didn't know wellness was sold. I knew innova and Cal nat was.


----------



## greyshadows (Jan 30, 2012)

I had bought some Old Mother Hubbard Peanut butter treats for my dogs, they looked like good ingredients, but when I opened the box..whew it smelled like formaldehyde! I returned it and never fed the dogs. I learned how to dehydrate my own chicken for treats instead!


----------



## PDXdogmom (Jun 30, 2010)

If you do very much searching, I think you'll find that rendering plants are often very closely located to pet food manufacturing plants - even if they aren't owned by the pet food manufacturer. it just makes good economic sense to reduce shipping costs. 

The number of dog and cat food companies that are not owned by a larger entity but own their own manufacturing plant and make their own kibble is dwindling by the year. Remember Natura which is now under P & G's umbrella?

Champion Petfoods owns and makes their own kibble as does Fromm and Tuffy's which makes NutriSource, Pure Vita and Natural Planet Organics. Does anyone else know of any other's?


----------



## frogdog (Aug 10, 2011)

When I was researching brands and doing a little investigative work I found all kind of info...one of the main reasons I decided to feed raw. The pet food industry is deplorable. I always see people recommending Royal Canin and they were one of the worst I found...can't recall exactly...may have been using ingredients from China.

I'm sure you all are aware of the following link but is a good starting point to where food is manufctured.

The Pet Food List. Pet Food information, manufacturers, products, ingredients, cat, dog food.


----------



## Jacksons Mom (Jun 13, 2010)

Yup, Merrick is terrible, IMO. I know a lot of their foods used to be recommended and their ingredient lists look decent, but yuck - way too many recalls and FDA warnings, etc. I don't trust them at all.

Do we have a thread yet that contains information on all of the foods and where they are manufactured? It'd be nice to make a list of all plants, possible recalls or warnings, etc, etc. 

I know Champion, Lotus and Fromm are all made in-house. I think Precise is too.


----------



## pgiven (Nov 4, 2011)

Jacksons Mom said:


> Do we have a thread yet that contains information on all of the foods and where they are manufactured? It'd be nice to make a list of all plants, possible recalls or warnings, etc, etc.


Literally 5 posts down from this.

http://dogfoodchat.com/forum/dry-canned-dog-food/13760-who-manufactures-your-dog-food.html


----------



## pgiven (Nov 4, 2011)

greyshadows said:


> Been poking around the Internet today checking out news about dog foods and treats etc and saw a couple of potentially unnerving things:
> 1. Turns out that Garret Merrick (CEO of Merrick Pet Care) owns a HUGE rendering plant, which is located in Hereford, TX. I did a map search for more info. Turns out that that the Hereford Rendering Plant is located at the SAME LOCATION as Merrick Pet Care Plant!!! It's one and the same!
> Could it be?........


Could it be what? 

Why is this a bad thing, exactly?


----------



## greyshadows (Jan 30, 2012)

Well it certainly could mean that deceased animals are being used in pet food! I don't find that a good thing at all. I mean sure some raw feeders and animals in the wild eat fresh "roadkill" or dead animals, but when used at a rendering plant you have no idea what could be there or how long. Some places use chemicals on dead animals. I know I saw one rendering plant online that used some chemicals to help strip the hides off of dead carcasses so they could be sold for other purposes. That could get in pet food. Plus with mad cow and who knows what else, I don't think it would be wise. I suppose if they were very recently killed and frozen properly it would be okay, but you know they don't take care of them that way. Many of the threads here concern people desiring as close to "human grade" food as possible..fresh meat, eggs etc., we consider brands like Purina and SD bad for our pets, so how could a rendering plant be considered decent? I went to college near one and they left the dead animals outside and in sheds for days upon days! It was pretty disgusting!


----------



## pgiven (Nov 4, 2011)

greyshadows said:


> Well it certainly could mean that deceased animals are being used in pet food! I don't find that a good thing at all. I mean sure some raw feeders and animals in the wild eat fresh "roadkill" or dead animals, but when used at a rendering plant you have no idea what could be there or how long. Some places use chemicals on dead animals. I know I saw one rendering plant online that used some chemicals to help strip the hides off of dead carcasses so they could be sold for other purposes. That could get in pet food. Plus with mad cow and who knows what else, I don't think it would be wise. I suppose if they were very recently killed and frozen properly it would be okay, but you know they don't take care of them that way. Many of the threads here concern people desiring as close to "human grade" food as possible..fresh meat, eggs etc., we consider brands like Purina and SD bad for our pets, so how could a rendering plant be considered decent? I went to college near one and they left the dead animals outside and in sheds for days upon days! It was pretty disgusting!


I think you're treading a fine line and frankly you sound pretty uninformed about the whole thing. I don't mean that offensively, just that what you just said sounds like something off of a PETA website.

Unless you are feeding raw whole muscle and bone, you are more than likely using food that contains meat from a rendering plant. Rendering plant doesn't automatically mean bad. Where do you think chicken meal, lamb meal, beef meal, fish meal and even fish oil come from? Rendering plants. 

The carcasses from slaughter house animals also end up there. They aren't all as nefarious as they sound and I certainly wouldn't call it "disturbing". Rendering plants are absolutely necessary and a great use of an animal. Would you prefer that we just cut the breasts off of chickens, the muscles off of the cows, and throw the rest in a landfill? Rendering plants allow the use of the whole animal. Furthermore, without meat meals we wouldn't be able to achieve a high meat based protein in a kibble. It's not possible with just fresh meat.


----------



## meggels (May 30, 2010)

I thought that Petcurean made their own food, apparently Menu makes their foods. I was surprised to see NV is manufactured by Menu as well :-X



With Abbie, my plan is to stick with Fromm and Champion, maybe even Earthborn, which is made by Midwestern Pet Foods. I don't think I've ever heard anything bad about them.


----------



## kevin bradley (Aug 9, 2009)

I will say this.... and I am as guilty as anyone of it....

Sometimes we THINK something is wrong without alot of science behind it. BY PRODUCTS, you say?....NOT IN MY DOG FOOD or MY DOGS BOWL EVER!!!

Quite honestly, I don't even know the science behind By Products and whether or not they are horrible for my Dogs.

Besides SOUNDING nasty, what is the science behind by products being a health issue for our Dogs?


----------



## pgiven (Nov 4, 2011)

kevin bradley said:


> I will say this.... and I am as guilty as anyone of it....
> 
> Sometimes we THINK something is wrong without alot of science behind it. BY PRODUCTS, you say?....NOT IN MY DOG FOOD or MY DOGS BOWL EVER!!!
> 
> ...


There is none. Lungs, kidneys, heart, etc. All "by-products" as far as humans are concerned, but delicious as far as dogs are concerned. I never understood why some kibble feeders get upset about having connective tissue and organs in their dog's food when just a forum over people are feeding all of that to their dogs in a raw form. Dogs don't need "human grade" meat. They aren't humans. They don't need solely white meat chicken breast.

They do, however, need a high meat content food. This is easily achieved with protein rich and concentrated meals.

Ainsworth is doing it right with Back to Basics - Healthy Dog Food - High Protein Dog Food - Back to Basics


----------



## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

however, they don't need 4-D meat nor do they need alot of the byproducts such as chicken feathers. 

Someone who owns ALL of it - rendering, manufacturing, etc. and makes products for many different companies raises the risk that when one dog food is contaminated many will be.

I have no problem with by-products (well I do, but only if they are cooked from God knows what) and yes I do have a problem with what may be rendered at the rendering plants, but mostly I think people should know that the many, many dog foods are made at the same few places.


----------



## greyshadows (Jan 30, 2012)

I am certainly not in agreement with PETA in anyway! And I do know rendering plants are necessary and serve a purpose. All's I'm saying is we here scream on the kibble board about how awful Purina and Science Diet are and how we would never feed our dogs those foods, yet a known rendering plant is owned by a well known Pet food maker? Not to mention one that has been recalled for all sorts of problems?? Merrick has definately had their share of problems. How would we all feel if Champion Pet foods opened a rendering plant next to their pet food plant? I bet a lot of people wouldn't buy it anymore. Yes, raw feeders do feed muscle and connective tissue safely, but knowing how concerned they are about feeding as healthy as possible, I'm sure they would not feed something that was dead and possibly diseased having sat outside for weeks! Having had family in the slaughterhouse business almost all of "edible feed" is taken at slaughter(example Tyson making ribs and pigs ears etc) and not sent off to rendering. Most of what goes to rendering is what's left and when arriving at a rendering plant it is usually made into tallow, lard and adhesive products. If some of these products were put into pet food, they would be by-products and would you feed that? I would not knowingly. I expect my kibble to be high quality (Orijen, Acana,Fromm, Core) not leftover ground up bits, or I would just go get the cheapest brand I could find!


----------



## pgiven (Nov 4, 2011)

greyshadows said:


> I expect my kibble to be high quality (Orijen, Acana,Fromm, Core) not leftover ground up bits, or I would just go get the cheapest brand I could find!


Core? Wellness? Weird to see that listed with the other 3. 

Anyway, you're still confusing food manufacturers with rendering plants. Do you know where Acana gets its meat meal from? Wellpet? Fromm? Nope. You've got no clue. You certainly have built a certain level of trust in Champion and Fromm which is great, so have I. They deliver a quality food. A great end result made up of high quality species appropriate foods. This doesn't change the fact that you have no idea what the facility is like that Fromm gets it's meat from. Where the food is made is only a small part of the story.



> All's I'm saying is we here scream on the kibble board about how awful Purina and Science Diet are and how we would never feed our dogs those foods


If Purina came out with a food FORMULA that was comparable to Acan or Orijen I would have no problem feeding it. The problem that you should have with Purina and Science Diet is that they are species inappropriate with useless ingredients and low protein. You know as much about where Fromm gets it's meat as you do Purina. The difference is that Fromm doesn't use corn and all the other junky ingredients that the "kibble board" doesn't like. 

Support Fromm and Champion because they use their own facilities, that's fine, but it has nothing to do with a meat rendering plant- neither did the 2007 recall. They are entirely different conversations.


----------



## pgiven (Nov 4, 2011)

greyshadows said:


> Having had family in the slaughterhouse business almost all of "edible feed" is taken at slaughter(example Tyson making ribs and pigs ears etc) and not sent off to rendering. Most of what goes to rendering is what's left and when arriving at a rendering plant it is usually made into tallow, lard and adhesive products.


This is absolutely false. Most of the offal is sent to rendering. Period. Meat meal is not made in a slaughterhouse. Every food you have listed uses a meat meal which does NOT come from a slaughterhouse. You understand this, right? Champion (Orijen, Acana) is getting fresh meat shipped in daily, sure, but they are also getting meat meals shipped in as well.


----------



## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

pgiven said:


> This is absolutely false. Most of the offal is sent to rendering. Period. Meat meal is not made in a slaughterhouse. Every food you have listed uses a meat meal which does NOT come from a slaughterhouse. You understand this, right? Champion (Orijen, Acana) is getting fresh meat shipped in daily, sure, but they are also getting meat meals shipped in as well.


how do you know all this? I have to admit I know little except there are few sources for many brands and the stuff that goes into it is often diseased nasty stuff no one would feed their dogs if they had a clue.

But i would like to know if you work in the industry, to make such certain statements.


----------



## pgiven (Nov 4, 2011)

xellil said:


> how do you know all this? I have to admit I know little except there are few sources for many brands and the stuff that goes into it is often diseased nasty stuff no one would feed their dogs if they had a clue.
> 
> But i would like to know if you work in the industry, to make such certain statements.


Most of my background is from the (human) food service industry side of things. I've been in a number of slaughterhouses and rendering plants. They are entirely different beasts. It's easy with a few simple google searches to find out the difference if you're interested.

I'm not trying to be a prick here, it's just there are two different ideas being presented as the same. ALL pet food manufacturers that have our desired high protein levels are using concentrated meat meals. The ones who aren't are using plant boosters to make the protein level higher. Rendering plants can be bad, sure, just like manufacturing plants. But it isn't fair to simply say BECAUSE a food manufacturer is using a rendering plant that they are bad or that it is somehow disturbing. Not only is it silly, but it doesn't make any sense.


----------



## greyshadows (Jan 30, 2012)

Yes I think I do understand, maybe not all but I know the slaughterhouse where my uncle worked actually had pet food suppliers come in and pick up things leftover (not used for human food) to grind into meal or used for pet products(ears, hooves). It came from a slaughterhouse not a rendering plant. Now maybe there are some rendering plants that sell to pet food places but I would not use them if I knew. Merrick has had numerous quality issues and they very well might use the rendering plant, I suppose for them it would make economic sense. As I stated a "disturbing find."
According to Champion Foods:

Meat sources in "meal" form (as long as they are from a specified type of animal, such as chicken meal, lamb meal, salmon meal etc.) can consist of meat and skin, with or without the bones, but exclusive of feathers/hair, heads, feet, horns, entrails etc. and have the proper calcium/phosphorus ratio required for a balanced diet. 

I assume the feathers, etc go to rendering. Now, Champion says they get their meal from their meat farmers who grind their own. So far based on my experience and having no recalls, I trust them. 
I do not personally care for Wellness Core, but they have had no recalls or known problems so I consider them high quality until I hear otherwise.


----------



## pgiven (Nov 4, 2011)

greyshadows said:


> I assume the feathers, etc go to rendering. Now, Champion says they get their meal from their meat farmers who grind their own.


Listen. I love Champion. They make an excellent food. They also have an excellent marketing department. The farmers are rendering their meat. It is more than likely no different than what Merrick is doing, just presented to you in a nice package. 



> So far based on my experience and having no recalls, I trust them.


This is great but, again, doesn't mean that you shouldn't trust another brand SOLELY because you found out that they operate or use a rendering plan. 



> I do not personally care for Wellness Core, but they have had no recalls or known problems


That's not at all true. 
Wellpet LLC Voluntarily REecalls Certain Lots Of Canned Cat Food

Let's pretend for a second that I work for Merrick in their marketing department. Let's also pretend that they were NOT involved with the 2007 recall or any other recalls.

If I said the following:
*
All of our meat is farm raised right here in Texas. We control every part of the manufacturing to ensure that we deliver the highest quality food for your pet's health. We are the only pet food company that controls our meat from beginning to end at every step. We are a simple processor, meaning that we use the least amount of steps as possible during our manufacturing process. We want to retain as much of the natural benefits as we can. We do that by staying away from any artificial colors, flavors or preservatives. We believe that this approach keeps our treats popular with our customers and their guardians. We only distribute our treats to the specialty pet retailer channel, and have been doing that since the beginning.*

It's all marketing. That's all i'm saying.


----------



## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

I just don't see alot of good stuff coming out of rendering plants. Yes, it has the stuff from castoff slaughterhouses. But I have just looked at several websites (and yes I do understand that some of them most probably have an agenda) and they all say basically the same as what wikipedia says:



> The majority of tissue processed comes from slaughterhouses, but also includes restaurant grease and butcher shop trimmings, expired meat from grocery stores, the carcasses of euthanized and dead animals from animal shelters, zoos and veterinarians. This material can include the fatty tissue, bones, and offal, as well as entire carcasses of animals condemned at slaughterhouses, and those that have died on farms, in transit, etc. The most common animal sources are beef, pork, sheep, and poultry.


Los Angeles had a big brouhaha about euthanized animals being rendered and put into pet food:Outcry Over Pets in Pet Food - Los Angeles Times
There's a youtube video on that one.

And in fact, the more I am reading the more it is freaking me out. this is from another website,
The Dark Side of Recycling



> The dead animals (the "raw") are accompanied by a whole menu of unwanted ingredients. Pesticides enter the rendering process via poisoned livestock, fish oil laced with bootleg DDT and other organo-phosphates that have accumulated in the bodies of West Coast mackerel and tuna.
> 
> Because animals are frequently shoved into the pit with flea collars still attached, organo-phosphate-containing insecticides get into the mix as well. The insecticide Dursban arrives in the form of cattle insecticide patches. Pharmaceuticals leak from antibiotics in livestock and euthanasia drugs given to pets are also included. Heavy metals accumulate from a variety of sources -- pet ID tags, surgical pins and needles.
> 
> Even plastic winds up going into the pit. Unsold supermarket meats, chicken and fish arrive in styrofoam trays and shrink wrap. No one has time for the tedious chore of unwrapping thousands of rejected meat packs. More plastic is added to the pits with the arrival of cattle ID lags, plastic insecticide patches and the green plastic bags containing pets from veterinarians


Maybe they are not all the same. Maybe the high quality "meal" we belive is going into our dog food is really not from diseased, dying animals, euthanized dogs, or styrofoam. But who knows????

I know rendering plants serve a purpose. Without them, we'd be overwhelmed with animal carcasses. But people need to understand that THIS is where dog food is coming from - not a juicy chicken raised on a farm.


----------



## pgiven (Nov 4, 2011)

xellil said:


> Maybe they are not all the same. Maybe the high quality "meal" we belive is going into our dog food is really not from diseased, dying animals, euthanized dogs, or styrofoam. But who knows????
> 
> I know rendering plants serve a purpose. Without them, we'd be overwhelmed with animal carcasses.


Absolutely agreed. Consider that a huge advertisement for raw feeding! 



> But people need to understand that THIS is where dog food is coming from - not a juicy chicken raised on a farm.


Indeed. As kibble feeders on this forum need to understand that if you want a high protein, high meat content food, it's not juicy farm raised chicken breast. It's concentrated meat meal.


----------



## greyshadows (Jan 30, 2012)

My response was not just because I found out that they owned a rendering plant. It started out trying to find out why they have had so many quality issues from treats to food. Not just melamine either, salmonella and contaminents. When I found out they owned a rendering plant I figured it must have something to do with their quality. Again just listed as a find so others could look into it and make their own decisions. Kind of a past time for me finding out who makes what and who owns who both in human and pet food.
I, too like Champion and so far I trust them. I also had family years ago that supplied to Purina(back when they were Purina Mills) before they became part of Nestle. I trusted my family so I fed my dogs Purina. Then I researched dog foods and wasn't happy with their ingredients. The boom of raw feeders and high quality kibble companies began to gain momentum and I needed to find better food (that coupled with an allergic dog). I researched to death companies and sourcing and joined forums like this and chose Acana. So far all is well. We just have to keep on our toes and make sure companies stay honest, and with the internet and forums it is a bit easier. And I agree a lot is marketing (look at the big push now for Blue Buffalo) but we have to look through the "buzz" words and nonsense and check them out. If they make a claim we need to check it out. "Trust but verify."


----------



## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

It is definitely a hidden industry. If they showed the rendering plants in the fancy dog food commercials and the meat going into them, their sales would drop to zero.


----------



## greyshadows (Jan 30, 2012)

It is sad but it is about trust and unfortunately a lot is out of our control. We trust the pet brands to do the right thing and source properly. I feel that hopefully some are trustworthy, I mean with this forum and all the other sites constantly watching the pet food companies for the next recall, a small company would be stupid to lie or be negligent but as we see it happens. It is a lot like our food, we trust them to feed us properly, if it says organic we assume it has been verified but again some are negligent or greedy. Unless we grow all our own food it is about faith. Xellil, I saw that article you saw online about rendering plants and it is scary! All those ID chips, medicines and euthanizing solutions is gross! Imagine what happened with pets who died of melamine poisoning or Mad cow before we knew much about it going into rendering! Ick!


----------



## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

greyshadows said:


> It is sad but it is about trust and unfortunately a lot is out of our control. We trust the pet brands to do the right thing and source properly. I feel that hopefully some are trustworthy, I mean with this forum and all the other sites constantly watching the pet food companies for the next recall, a small company would be stupid to lie or be negligent but as we see it happens. It is a lot like our food, we trust them to feed us properly, if it says organic we assume it has been verified but again some are negligent or greedy. Unless we grow all our own food it is about faith. Xellil, I saw that article you saw online about rendering plants and it is scary! All those ID chips, medicines and euthanizing solutions is gross! Imagine what happened with pets who died of melamine poisoning or Mad cow before we knew much about it going into rendering! Ick!


Makes you wonder too about all these dogs with kidney and liver failure and they don't name a cause. i don't think dogs just suddenly lose kidney function for no reason, yet it happens all the time.


----------



## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

:usa::usa::usa::usa::usa:


----------



## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

magicre said:


> how many sneakers can a dog eat without the liver protesting?


Exactly!! And the out of date meat from the grocery that would normally be a good thing is certainly offset by the fact that they render it with the styrofoam still attached. Sheesh, it's a wonder all our dogs don't drop dead by a year old.


----------



## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

:usa::usa::usa::usa::usa:


----------



## DogLuver (Oct 19, 2011)

magicre said:


> what i get from all this is no one cares, really, about our health...or our dogs.


Everyone is $$$$$$$$ hungry.


----------



## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

magicre said:


> there is an allowance made by the usda for how many mouse claws can be left in hot dogs....and that's human grade.


WHAT?? You have to be kidding, right?


----------



## sganow (Apr 16, 2009)

A lot of people like and trust Wellness. What many may not know is that they use several different manufacturers to make their foods, one of the big ones they use is Diamond.


----------



## greyshadows (Jan 30, 2012)

No she is right about the stuff allowed in our food. I think there was a book by Upton Sinclair that told about the horrid things in slaughterhouses and what is allowed in human food. Ick!


----------



## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

:usa::usa::usa::usa::usa::usa::usa::usa::usa:


----------



## Igandwhippetlover (Feb 20, 2012)

After reading all of this, I am so glad that when I am able to go back to making my own dog food, I WILL! At least that way I know what is in it.
All organic and human food.


----------



## Jackson (Feb 5, 2012)

Ok, so does this mean that I switch off of the Wellness Simple Solutions that I just got Artie adjusted to? Ugh. Not really a question, just more dog food research fatigue. I want to do the best that I can for him in every aspect of his food but every time I turn around I find a new reason to doubt my choices. :/


----------



## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

greyshadows said:


> No she is right about the stuff allowed in our food. I think there was a book by Upton Sinclair that told about the horrid things in slaughterhouses and what is allowed in human food. Ick!


that was The Jungle. I thought that book was fascinating, as it really changed an entire industry.

Now, instead of feeding that food to people, we give it to the dogs.


----------



## greyshadows (Jan 30, 2012)

Not only do we feed bad stuff to our dogs we apparently are feeding ourselves chemicals and gross stuff:

abcnews.go.com/.../is-pink-slime-in-the-beef-at-your-grocery-store/


----------



## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

greyshadows said:


> Not only do we feed bad stuff to our dogs we apparently are feeding ourselves chemicals and gross stuff:
> 
> abcnews.go.com/.../is-pink-slime-in-the-beef-at-your-grocery-store/


There was a big article the other day on how all the schoolkids are getting it. 

I can't believe anyone would be surprised by this, though it is totally appalling. Anything to make a buck, even if it's screwing people royally and feeding them lord knows what horrible stuff.


----------



## DaViking (Sep 27, 2011)

pgiven said:


> There is none. Lungs, kidneys, heart, etc. All "by-products" as far as humans are concerned, but delicious as far as dogs are concerned. I never understood why some kibble feeders get upset about having connective tissue and organs in their dog's food when just a forum over people are feeding all of that to their dogs in a raw form. Dogs don't need "human grade" meat. They aren't humans. They don't need solely white meat chicken breast.
> 
> They do, however, need a high meat content food. This is easily achieved with protein rich and concentrated meals.
> 
> Ainsworth is doing it right with Back to Basics - Healthy Dog Food - High Protein Dog Food - Back to Basics


Indeed they are.

They don't need human grade, but it can be with very little effort, that's the thing.

Just read through this thread. Lungs, hearts, kidneys and liver are all high quality ingredients more manufacturers should use in their pet food. Actually in Europe they are much more common and also much more common for regular human consumption. Maybe to a lesser degree lungs and hearts. However, you can still walk into a meat shop/butcher in Europe and get the base for lung stew or semi-cooked blood sausage. An all pork based liver pate are many places a cheap staple like cheddar or lunch meat is in north America. Top quality human grade of course, full of nutrients. It's plain wrong that the common opinion that this is "gross stuff" or "isn't this by-product crap" turns so many manufacturers away from using organs. It is a human reaction, a dog or a wolf would never turn away from this. Sourced from human grade, controlled animals free of any antibiotics and growth hormones, organs are as good as it gets. Don't even have to be human grade as long as other quality measures are met. I'd prefer human grade though.


----------



## sozzle (May 18, 2011)

MollyWoppy said:


> WHAT?? You have to be kidding, right?


Doesn't surprise me as with grains a certain number amount of weevils and other bugs are allowed. For instance we have been harvesting our pretty much organic lettuce that was covered in aphids, so I washed and then soaked in salted water for 20 mins or so to get rid of any others I couldn't see, there was still the odd one on it but if I didn't see it or taste it I wasn't worried. Very hard actually to get every single bug off our food.
Think of it as extra protein.


----------



## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

:usa::usa::usa::usa::usa::usa:


----------



## DandD (Jan 4, 2012)

Ugh, when I was a kid (just over 30 years ago now) I bit into an Oh Henry bar to find a worm wiggling out of the middle, and I had bitten into it. They were my favorite chocolate bar and I still have never eaten another Oh Henry bar in my life, but it really sounds to me like things have gotten a whole lot worse!!!


----------

