# When & Why did you choose to feed raw?



## Northwoods10 (Nov 22, 2010)

Just curious to hear when and why everyone switched their dogs to raw? Or have they always been on raw (weaned onto raw)?

For us, it was a choice of wanting to give our pets the most natural & healthy option. We started off with just Nallah, and I admit, I knew NOTHING about dog food when we got her. She was on the crappiest of crap kibble for about the first 6 months. Then I started learning about proper nutrition and that there were better kibbles out there. From there we switched her to Natures Variety and ultimately to Wellness CORE (grain free). She did well on that, but I was amazed by raw and had been reading up on it for quite some time. When Nallah was about 3 I started experimenting with pre made raw and she was on 50% raw 50% kibble. 

Then came Morgan. Morgan refused to eat kibble. She was picky about it and it did NOTHING for her. She had a dry, dull coat (even on premium kibble), nasty stools, and constant ear problems. 

So...I decided to take the plunge and go all raw for both of them. That was in April of 2010. Best choice I've ever made. We are now feeding PMR to all 3 of our dogs. I can also now be proud of the fact that I have a raw fed puppy! I look forward to the long term results of feeding a puppy raw from "start to finish". 

Since switching to full raw, I am now getting good enough at finding deals, and I am able to feed all 3 of my dogs for just a few bucks more per month on raw than I was able to feed ONE dog on premium kibble. :biggrin:

Lets hear your story!


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## SamWu1 (Oct 15, 2010)

Wanted to minimize health problems when I got my first dog so first I got a breed that had few to none hereditary health problems then how to keep him as healthy as possible.

I researched and researched, went from good grain inclusive kibble, to several premium grain-free's, to Honest Kitchen, to Premade raw and finally to PMR style feeding of fresh meat, fat, bone and organ.

Over 3 years into it for Kane and my foster went from Walmart kibble straight to raw and firm stool the second time.


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## Jackielyn (May 27, 2009)

I didn't start searching for better kibble until I owned my first Great Dane, a little over a year and a half ago. When I started researching Great Danes, food also became a factor...I learned SO much. I was interested in raw from the beginning. When I brought my first dane home she was eating Chicken soup for the pet lover's soul. Eventually I switched to TOTW, I got involved in rescue and had many dogs coming through my home. My first dane was stolen when i left her with a friend :frown: and now I have a senior dane and a 1 yr old dane. I was going through 3 bags of dog food a month at about $40 a bag...after running numbers I figured out raw would be cheaper! So i talked the hubby into it. I started with Sojos original dog food mix and ground chicken and beef, this did HORRIBLE things for my senior's teeth! I knew I had to get bone in their diet. So i did chicken quarters and the sojo's mix. I tried a number of things to make my dollars stretch...my puppy's poops were pudding...i finally just decided to go all out and switch to all raw. Best decision ever!  I haven't run the numbers but I am sourcing cheap meat and I think this is definitely an economical decision for us!


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

I wanted to feed my dogs what they were meant to be fed, plain and simple. They are carnivores and require to be fed as such. That's the least they deserve from the people they rely on to take care of them. 

That being said I was only able to switch to raw in October 2008. Two of my dogs are crossed over from kibble (EVO), the other three were weaned to raw from 8 weeks old. I will never again feed doomnuggets to any animal I own.


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## Northwoods10 (Nov 22, 2010)

danemama08 said:


> I wanted to feed my dogs what they were meant to be fed, plain and simple. They are carnivores and require to be fed as such. That's the least they deserve from the people they rely on to take care of them.
> 
> That being said I was only able to switch to raw in October 2008. Two of my dogs are crossed over from kibble (EVO), the other three were weaned to raw from 8 weeks old.* I will never again feed doomnuggets to any animal I own*.


ROFL.......love that. I am taking that oath too! :biggrin:


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## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

Merrily reading the paper one day when my pup was about a year old, I noticed an article talking about dogs and cats dying because of contaminated kibble. Started looking into which brands were affected and just about keeled over myself when I realised that I was unwittingly feeding my precious little moron, poison. 
For the next year or so, I fed increasingly better kibbles (and canned), until I discovered pre-made raw which made perfect sense to me. But then my vet put a spanner in the works going on about blockages, salmonella and other terrible things that happen to dogs on raw, so I back tracked to the no grain kibble, cooked food and guiltily snuck in a few raw patties. 
The idea of raw food kept nagging my brain though, and thats how I came upon DFC. Read through practically hundreds of old posts, asked the few questions I could find that hadn't already been answered, and that was that. 
I just like knowing exactly what goes into my dogs (and one fine day), my cat's dinner.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Northwoods10 said:


> ROFL.......love that. I am taking that oath too! :biggrin:


Thank spookiechick for that one! She's the first person I've met who used that term LOL


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## mike594 (Dec 7, 2010)

*why I started.*

Before I bought my Boxer, I read book after book, Ok it was only two books. If you read my post you know I'm no scholar. Anyway, From the time we got him home he never pooped hard. I had read another book from this woman Michele Welton (11 things you must do right to keep your dog healthy). This was a good read. She recomended raw. I told my wife she said she could not do it. But after 7 trips to the vet and weeks of antibiotics, I really started my research. It became clear there was only one choice, Raw. Now my wife had alot more feelings for our fur child, He was no longer the dog. I pleaded with her to feed raw, and she agreed. When you read the facts its indisputible. So we began 15 days ago and the rest, as they say is history. It is a miracle how his health improved so fast. The help from this site and others is also a big help. thats my tale of wo.:smile:
Thanks to all Mike


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## Jodysmom (Jan 9, 2010)

I turned to raw food out of desperation. We started fostering a underweight German Shepherd who had numerous, soft stools. She was treated with all of the standard medications you would give a dog with this condition. Nothing worked and she wasn't gaining weight. The first day I put her on a raw food diet was the first day she had a perfect stool. Eventually she gained all of the weight back and looks awesome. My vet determined some dogs just don't do well on kibble and she is one of them.


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

I guess I started looking into raw a little over 9 years ago. I stumbled on it online. Don't remember where online but it looked interesting. I did a little research and decided it was only a bunch of whacko's that fed like that and dropped it for several months. Then I started researching again and got Ian Billinghurst's book Give Your Dog a Bone and finally got up the courage to feed BARF. I bought a food processor to puree the veggies.

After a few months of feeding BARF and my dogs getting diarrhea after every "veggie slop" meal, I ran into Tom Lonsdale, attended 2 seminars he was teaching and got to know him outside of class. I spent a lot of time with him for a few months until he went back to Australia. I asked a lot of questions and had long discussions. He convinced me that dog's don't need veggies so I gladly dropped the veggie slop meals. I've been feeding PMR for a little over 8 years now.


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## xxshaelxx (Mar 8, 2010)

Before I got my pups, I did as much research as I could on the breed, including buying a book about Siberian Huskies. In reading the book, they recommended feeding a high protein diet of kibble, preferably grain free, and ending with BARF being the best choice of diet. However, it also stated the BARF was highly expensive, and outstretched most peoples' budgets, so I didn't include raw in my options. Instead, I asked about good brands of food from a friend at Petco, and she recommended Wolf Cub by Solid Gold, so I bought that, as well as some Taste of the Wild for a good price at a feed and supply shop. I was feeding that for a while, satisfied that I was at least giving them decent nutrition, then I happened to run into Rachel (Rannmiller) in a pet shop with my two monsters with me. I was talking diet with her, and happened to mention that I'd LOVE to feed raw, but that it wasn't in my budget. It was all history from there as she told me about this place, about Natalie and Jon's PMR website, and about how it's cheaper than the kibbles I was buying. Lo and behold, IT WAS!

Now I can't be happier with their diet.


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## butcherfour (Oct 26, 2010)

I wish I had been brave enough to take the plunge 2 years ago when I got my problem child. 

Up to 8-10 diarrheas per day! Greasy, flaky, stinky skin. Goopy, runny eyes. Itchy paws. Constant staph outbreaks. ADD-like behavior. $100's of dollars to the vet.

It had to STOP! I was aware of raw feeding but as a vegetarian the only meat I had had in my house in 15 years was a few Thanksgiving turkeys. I kept thinking there just had to be a kibble out there that would work. When I finally faced the reality that Max was never going to tolerate kibble, I researched for a few days, went to an ethnic market, bought some chicken quarters, and cringed as Max took the first cruuuuunnch! 

It has been nothing short of a miracle. I will never look back. I am still totally grossed out by meat (why does anyone eat lamb? it is the foulest smell on earth and I am a hospital nurse and have smellest some pretty rank things!) but, the dogs love it and I love them!


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## schtuffy (May 17, 2010)

Louis is my first dog, and I had no idea what I was doing. He stayed on Iams Smart Puppy for awhile because that was what the breeder recommended. Then a friend introduced me to Innova, but his stools were always mushy. I began researching dog food tirelessly. I researched brands, ingredients, made a spread sheet, etc. It seemed like every food I looked at, there was something controversial: soy, wheat, corn, by-products, denatured meals, tomato pomace, ethoxyquin, potatoes, sodium selenite, ingredients sourced from China....the list just went on and on!! When I made the switch to Orijen, his poops were firm finally...but I just wasn't satisfied. I think I had found the best kibble for my dog, but not the best _food_ for my dog. So I began a slow switch by feeding RMBs a few times a week because I was scared to plunge. But I am happy now that with much encouragement from this forum, Louis has been on full PMR since he turned 1 in November :smile:


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## Paws&Tails (Sep 3, 2010)

I had been wanting cats for a long time. Christmas of '07 I asked for guinea pigs. In October, and I still don't know what made me do this, but I got online and started looking stuff up about guinea pigs. I ran across Guinea Pig Cages forum and found out about proper diets. That got me really interested in pet diets. I have since looked up proper diets for parakeets, fish, mice, rats, rabbits, cats, dogs, horses etc. (Though unfortunately I didn't find out about raw for cats and dogs until recently. I mean, I'd heard it mentioned but never gave it much thought).

After we acquired three kittens at the end of the same October. They have been on premium food since they were 7 weeks old and they are now 3 years old. A little over a year ago, when we adopted Spike from our local shelter, it was listed that he had a flea allergy. He was CONSTANTLY itching and scratching and sore and raw. It didn't make sense to me because we don't have fleas. I've never seen even _one_ flea. After about 9 months of steroid shots, Benadryl doses etc. I started doing a TON of research and had a suspicion that it was food allergies not flea allergies. There had to be something better than what he was eating now. We put him on grain free kibble and grain free canned food. While it helped a little, he was still itching. I put him on a homemade diet with a calcium and vitamin supplement at the beginning of September. He was a lot better, LOVED the food, but was STILL itching. I suddenly remembered something I had heard about BARF diets. I started looking into raw and thought "You know, it can't hurt to try it!" So I began looking for forums that supported raw feeding and joined this forum. He started on a raw diet at the beginning of October. I haven't looked back since. The only time he gets all physco itchy is if he somehow gets into the cats food or manages to snag human food. I've since started the cats on raw too. Though it will be a long time before they are fully on it. 

Wow that was long!


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## sassymaxmom (Dec 7, 2008)

Sassy was a stinky hound dog all her life, I fed her good kibbles but she was still stinky. She turned out to have failing kidneys in March 2007, nothing to do with the big recall and I put her on the nasty script stuff. 

The script kibble company started getting recalled, not her stuff but still scary. I found dogaware and cobbled together a cooked fresh food for her. Couldn't do the bits and pieces in the example as I was coming from kibble, it was just too much, just worked something up that had the right amount of phosphorus, calories and protein. Max got the same stuff with egg yolks while she got the whites so he was getting enough phosphorus and more protein. It was fun to cook for the dogs and they sure liked it. After a while I noticed she mostly wasn't stinky anymore. Nice benefit of cooked food. I could adjust her fat and protein intake precisely, I liked that. I could give her more protein, less phosphorus and fat than the script food which kept her QOL high for over 3 years.

I kept on reading and adjusting the food. I hated tossing out the bone and tried Max on raw meat with the rest of the cooked stuff. He loved it and it seemed like more meat. I gave him the chicken wing, he didn't starve to death. I ran the numbers and it cost less to feed him raw meat/bone/organ than it did to make Sassy's meat and rice food as I didn't waste the bone so off I went.

I found analysis of different bony bits and I can enter those bits and make up recipes on nutritiondata so I know he is getting what he needs. I hope he won't need to be restricted in meat like Sassy and he can eat raw his whole life but if it happens I know how to feed him appropriate cooked diets too. He will not ever eat kibble as a meal again. I eat fresh home cooked food, why should my pets get dried stuff? Oh, my fish get live food now too. Grindal worms are super easy to culture and feed, not stinky or anything.


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## RachelsaurusRexU (Sep 4, 2010)

I had been thinking about raw diets for years, dabbling in research here and there, but I was always under the impression that it would be WAYYYYY too expensive to feed multiple animals that way. About six months ago, Milner (one of my kitties) ended up in acute renal failure. While he was being hospitalized, I was online 24/7 researching ARF and how improper diet is one of the causes. This lead me to researching more appropriate diets and I came across PMR! I researched for weeks and weeks (meanwhile, my Milner was recovering at home) and then finally decided to take the plunge! All of my dogs and cats are on PMR with the exception of Miles, my boyfriend's cat. He absolutely won't touch it no matter what. Still, we have successfully made some extreme improvements to his diet. I even switched my fish to raw diets


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## cprcheetah (Jul 14, 2010)

I actually started & failed at raw feeding in 2006 shortly after I got Zoey, I started with beef and then wondered why I had rocket butt galore, so I gave it up. Then this past year Zoey's allergies had been getting increasingly worse, I had her on grain free, did the Natural Balance Duck & Potato, and she'd be fine on a food then after about 3 months she'd start reacting to it again, so I did lots and lots of research & with the help & encouragement of a couple of chihuahuas on dogster, I decided to take the plunge about a week after Zoey had knee surgery for a ligament issue. I would never look back and will NEVER feed Crapple to any of my dogs again, I have just convinced my hubby to let me feed raw to my cats too and we're making the switch, I do have one cat who can't/won't eat anything but crapple, but I make sure it's grain free/high quality. Raw has HONESTLY been the BEST thing I have EVER done in regards to Zoey, she is off of 2 of her long term meds, and we are working (as well as homeopathically) to get her off the rest of them save 1 (to keep her Cerebral Spinal Fluid down) as she has Hydrocephalus. I have ALWAYS wanted the best for my pets and have always thought I was doing that....well I am now. My dad/vet told one of our good clients today he wants to be reincarnated as one of my dogs  As they are fed the 'filet mignon' of dog foods lol.


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## SpooOwner (Oct 1, 2010)

I got my pup at the end of August, when she was 9 weeks old, and within a few weeks we made the jump to raw. I read enough to know that raw was the healthiest alternative and gave me the best chance of having a happy, healthy dog for many years. 

The funny thing is that I probably would have kept reading about raw for months without ever taking the plunge, except I mentioned to my dad that I was thinking about feeding raw, and he stopped by later in the week with 10 pounds of beef for Mia. He got such a kick out of sectioning the meat and slipping little pieces to her. It totally felt like he and Mia were conspiring - they were obviously on the same wavelength about beef, whereas I, a vegetarian, was a bit taken aback by all that was happening in my kitchen.

Of course, Mia took to raw right away: I think it took her an hour or so to finish her first meal, and she wore part of it back into the house (a small piece of beef clinging to her foreleg), but the second meal took about 30 minutes, and within a week or so she was down to 5-10 min, depending on the food. And she's done well with everything I've given her - heart, organs, fish. The only thing which she does not do well on is high sodium - no enhanced meats, no canned fish.

I had a lot to learn about meat. I didn't even know where to buy it - I know that sounds strange, but there are whole aisles in the grocery store that I never had a reason to shop. Of course, now I have local meat prices memorized so I can identify a good bargain, know where to get which meats, etc. My kitchen is set up so that Mia's food is prepped on its own side of the counter; she knows if I'm getting her meal ready simply by where I'm standing in the kitchen.

Because I switched Mia over so young, I forget what it's like to have a kibble-fed dog. On a recent snowday, I went walking with a friend and his GSD (who eats Blue Buffalo). The GSD pooped twice during our 2 hour hike! And they were huge yellow-brown poops! I couldn't believe it. I wanted to ask what was wrong, but then I realized that it's not the dog, it's the kibble.

I still ask a lot of questions on DFC about kibble (and I think some people here have the impression that I feed commercial foods), but mostly that's because I like to stay abreast of trends in the dog food industry so that I can counsel friends (and if necessary, defend raw). I don't like be pushy about raw - being pushy isn't going to educate anyone, and my dog may lose a potential playdate. I let the results speak for themselves.


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## Khan (Jan 17, 2010)

I can't believe it will almost be a year of raw around mid January.
I have always fed my dogs high end kibble (long before it was "cool") :wink:
Khan however proved to be a problem child from the start. No matter what kibble we tried, he had cannon butt  The Dr. was leaning toward colitis. I refused to believe a 4mo old puppy would have such problems. I did my due diligence and found he had some food allergies with one of the main ingredients in the kibble and treats. I was limited to only a couple kibbles at this point. Thankfully Orijen was one, we tried that with still not great results. As he still was "not right" my research continued. I found an article on malabsorption syndrome which described him perfectly. The suggestions were to feed a raw diet. I found this site and read and learned about PMR. My husband who had told me, "figuring out a food is your deal, go find one" had a change of heart when I told him this is what I've found and this is what I'm doing. I had to really ween him on the idea more then the dog! :biggrin: Khan thrived on this diet. Within a month so many of his issues were gone, or clearing up, and he finally was starting to gain weight. That was something my husband could not argue with. 
During this past year, we have since taken our other two off kibble and have not looked back!
I couldn't even imagine where we would be if not for this site and the helpful advise of everyone here.
I probably would be feeding a kibble that was getting Khan mediocre results at best; but thinking this is just the way it is.
Thank you DFC for improving all my Furkids life!!
Not to mention mine, since I'm the pooper scooper!


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

My story starts from the beginning of when I first brought home my 9 week old little girl. She didn't want to eat and when she did she had horrible diahrrea! I feel so guilty fo making her go so long with eating kibble and I really didn't know any better at the time than to feed what was at the Petsmart or Petco stores.

After several $1,000 later in vet bills a friend turned me on to Innova, either it was the limited amount of grains compared to what she had in the past or just the quality, it was better for her but not perfect. I had started looking into this website and started reading all that I could as this was my first born and she was everything to me. I had also just adopted her full brother who had an allergy to beef kibble.

We started raw in November of 2008 and haven't looked back, all 3 of my Bull Terriers are on a raw diet and will never go back to kibble, although I do and have fed Ziwipeak.


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## SerenityFL (Sep 28, 2010)

Northwoods10 said:


> Just curious to hear when and why everyone switched their dogs to raw? Or have they always been on raw (weaned onto raw)?
> 
> 
> Lets hear your story!


It actually started because of a cat. I have an older cat, about 12 years old now, who has been through a lot with me including many moves. And she never complains, ever. I adore this cat and noticed last January that she wasn't able to jump up so well, was having some problems, albeit slight at the time, with mobility and over the next six months, she started complaining about pain when I would touch her hind quarters.

I know pets can't live forever but I would like her to be around awhile longer so I started researching her condition and what to feed to help. That's how I found out about raw. I then decided to start looking in to that for the dogs. Many websites, many groups and forums later, I found this place.

I was a little confused about what, exactly, to do until I got here and Danemama, for example, made it so easy to understand and so easy to do. So I dove in, for all, cats and dogs, in September. 

The dogs were easy, they are puppies, they were about 4-5 months old at the time and didn't like kibble anyway. I started them first and the hoodlums took to it so well that I felt empowered to start with the cats.

The cats....that took a bit of time. Some of them also jumped right on it right away but I had some hold outs. They were stubborn, I was stubborn. 

Eventually I won.

All animals in this household now eat raw.

The older cat still has a bit of problems with jumping and she still has a bit of pain in the hindquarters but she is able to climb better, she is becoming a little more active and who knows, maybe she'll continue to improve. Her mobility issues, (again, slight), and her pain, (slight), may not ever go away, she is older, but I'm hoping that with a much better diet, she'll get better and better each day.

As for the hoodlums...because they are black, it's so easy to tell the difference in their fur. In fact, the other night I was playing some doggie mind game with them. (I mean a toy I got for them.) And for a minute, I got caught up gazing at their shiny coats. It's just incredible how so very shiny they really are. 

I'm the only one in my neighborhood who feeds raw and my dogs are the best looking dogs out of all of them. It's not bias...it's a fact.


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## Animal Quackers (Jul 10, 2010)

SerenityFL said:


> I adore this cat and noticed last January that she wasn't able to jump up so well, was having some problems, albeit slight at the time, with mobility and over the next six months, she started complaining about pain when I would touch her hind quarters.


I'm responding to this (sorry it is off topic!) because I had a similar issue with my 14 year old cat. We put her on chondroitin and glucosamine tabs/treats and it helped her tremendously the next three years of her life, until she passed away. You can buy them at the pet store, and I completely noticed a difference in her mobility and pain level right away!


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## SerenityFL (Sep 28, 2010)

Animal Quackers said:


> I'm responding to this (sorry it is off topic!) because I had a similar issue with my 14 year old cat. We put her on chondroitin and glucosamine tabs/treats and it helped her tremendously the next three years of her life, until she passed away. You can buy them at the pet store, and I completely noticed a difference in her mobility and pain level right away!


THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am totally going to look in to this! Thank you a million times for the suggestion.

(Sorry guys, back on topic.)


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## List (Oct 28, 2008)

I too started raw because of my cats. About 5 years ago one of my cats, was having chronic bouts of FLUTD. I tried everything the vet suggested, even the Rx foods. All this did was cause my large muscular 1 year old cat, into a frail sickly looking animal. It was sad and disheartening. 
So began my search for alternatives. I quickly switched to some premade foods, and saw an improvement. Although my cat was still having 'episodes'. As I continued to learn, the dog (one at the time) and the other cats were switched to a premade food as well. I saw improvements in all of them.

But my sick cat was still not 100%, so I started introducing whole foods, within a few weeks all the animals were switched. 
The improvements were remarkable. 

My cat has been wonderfully healthy, with not a single flare up for almost 4 years. Its amazing. There is no doubt in my mind that raw saved my cat.


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## candiceb (Jan 22, 2010)

In college a couple years ago I got my first dog of my own, and fed kibble. I started with mediocre quality, Nutro Natural Choice. My poor dog Maverick was constantly having problems with ear infections and itchy skin, you'd think I would have seen the signs. Then he absolutely refused to eat any dry kibble, and I had to wet it and make a warm mush for him to eat anything. Still, I trudged on with kibble. At some point I switched to Pro Plan. It wasn't until my second dog Toby a year later that I started considering raw. He had chronic itchiness that seemed to stop at nothing. And he was a very hard keeper. A friend started her dog on a raw (but BARF-style) diet and encouraged me to do the same. I thought it would be impossible since I do dog shows and at that time was at shows nearly every weekend. I didn't think it would be possible without being extremely inconvenient. I made due by putting them on Taste of the Wild dry food and Wellness Core canned food.

Then I met a raw feeder at a show. And then another. And then another. I started doing my own research on raw and found Tom Lonsdale's website, and a PDF of his book "Work Wonders". Finally one day I just took the plunge and fed them some chicken quarters. Success! Maverick's appetite returned and his infections stopped, Toby's itchiness stopped and he gained weight, and by this time I also had acquired a third puppy, Ryder. While he didn't have preexisting conditions, he seemed to thrive. This was in February this year.

A few months later in May I had to move, as I graduated college and moved to another city for grad school. Ryder and Toby went with handlers for a couple weeks during the move, and Maverick went to live with my parents, as my new apartment only allows two pets. When Ryder and Toby came back, we had diarrhea problems galore for a week. (In retrospect, they probably had giardia.) Desperate for some normalcy, I put them on boiled chicken and rice for a couple days, and then back on Taste of the Wild. My poor dog Toby became a mass of itchiness again, but now so did Ryder, and both of them quickly developed severe staph infections. Ryder even started losing his hair. They were both put on medication, and I switched them to The Honest Kitchen. A couple weeks later Ryder recovered, but Toby struggled with recurring hot spots and scabs. The vet wrote me a prescription for more meds, and told me that this was likely a chronic condition and I would have to medicate him for life. Depressed, I went to the grocery store to pick up the meds, but rather than filling the prescription I bought some meat instead and restarted feeding raw. That was in July. Toby hasn't had a hot spot or scab since. 

The incident over the summer has only served to further convince me that the raw diet is the only diet for my dogs. Everywhere we go I have people comment on how beautiful and healthy my dogs look, and I'm happy to share information about feeding raw to anyone who wants to listen. 

Anyway, that's my dogs' raw story!


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