# .Falling off the wagon



## Celt (Dec 27, 2010)

Not sure where else to put this, so... anyways, I think I probably fell off (or at least slipped a little) the raw food wagon. (sigh) Well, I didn't have enough salmon (the can lied, it wasn't 7 ounces, only 4 of meat), and since I didn't have anything else pulled. I decided to make up the difference in "bisquits" (the kind you can use to supplement a kibble diet). For the first time since starting to feed raw, the pups aren't "scavaging" around for more to eat. I don't know, but I'm thinking about either giving a "kibble supplemented" meal (probably with the canned salmon) or switching back and giving every other meal as raw. Of course, I switched in the first place because they didn't seem particularly "into" their kibble (although even on raw, they're not enthusiastic either). I just don't know. 
Along with everything else, I read about how the meat needs to be "unenhanced". Yet, I can't afford to buy "organic" meats (which are the only ones that I've been able to find without enhancement, even the "all natural" meats are "added" to). So, am I doing my pups harm by feeding them these kind of meats? I just don't know, maybe it's just me going through one of my "phases". Sorry on the blathering.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Well, it's totally up to you. But you live where there are lots of Mexican groceries - here in Indiana I get all kinds of good things at a good price at a Mexican grocery. There's alot of mule deer out there - do you know someone who hunts? 

In some cases, it's just finding the right grocery store. For instance, the Kroger that we always go to has nothing that doesn't have salt in it, but the KMart store has ALOT of stuff the dogs can eat at a good price. 

It's perfectly legal to put "all natural" on the meat and almost everyone does it, even if it's enhanced. That's a term that's not regulated at all. They will also put "hormone free" even though it's illegal to sell meat with added hormones so all meat is hormone free.

I don't know, I would have a hard time feeding dry stuff to my dogs, now that I understand what all those ingredients really mean.


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## minnieme (Jul 6, 2011)

I don't know if I have fallen off the "raw bandwagon" or not, (I mean, I have been on it in spirit for a long time, but not in actuality!) but I have gotten mighty used to the convenience of kibble and the consistently perfect poos. Thinking of going back to diarrhea doesn't excite me...and I know I'm just feeling lazier about it because I started a new job and have been working a TON... and thus feel kinda tired in general. We are looking at another dane though... who is already raw fed. Talk about something to get my butt in gear!

Okay, my story aside, I am with X on this one...surely there's gotta be lots of Mexican markets around, or no?? That sucks that you're having such a hard time...  No co-ops around either???


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## Tobi (Mar 18, 2011)

I can understand what you mean about them scavenging... but in all honesty My dogs have always been scavengers even when i fed kibble so i don't feel bad for him now :tongue:
Don't fret, there are plenty of places you might be able to get meats, try googling "meat processors" in your area and see what comes up, that is where we get the bulk of our stuff for cheap, today we even went and checked out a free place, but... i'm not sure about that one as of yet :lol: but if you look hard enough you can usually find SOMETHING. :smile:


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## Celt (Dec 27, 2010)

There's not any "Mexican Groceries" per say here. I can find almost any part of an animal for sale at the local WalMart. But this means that most stuff is rather expensive. Hades, the stores charge anywhere from .69 to .89 a pound for pork fat. Sadly, I don't know any hunters otherwise I'd be hitting them up for anything and everything. I have "looked around" at the stores but it seems that most of 'em are similarly priced. It's why I get pork spareribs on clearance at Sam's, chicken necks and calf liver from Wally, beef necks/ribs on clearance from Albertson's and ground beef from the commissary (thanks to "grandpa"). If my pups weren't little I wouldn't be able to feed raw at all. I know that kibble isn't the greatest, but (shrug) I've raised plenty of dogs on the stuff without any "issues" (knock on wood) to date. I'm just not sure what to do any more.

Before raw, neither was a "scavanging" for extra. So them scavaging now makes me feel kinda bad.There's one meat processor. They were slightly cheaper, but if I bought 40 lbs (smallest amount they sell, or at least that's what they said) I'd would be feeding that one meat for over 2 months and just to add on to the problem, there's a definite lack of space.


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## hmbutler (Aug 4, 2011)

It kinda sounds to me like you've already made up your mind, and maybe you're just looking for someone to back you up, perhaps to make you feel better about your decision? But honestly, you don't need anyones approval :smile: what you chose to do with your dogs diet is completely your decision, if you are happy with the decision, no one else can tell you what to do. Do what you need to do, and are happy to do, and I'm sure all will be fine. You gave it a go, and understand all aspects of it, so it's not like you're knocking it back without giving it a real chance!

Don't feel like you need to justify yourself to anyone here. By the sounds of it, you have researched a lot of options, but you're still not happy with the scenario, so there's not much more you can do


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

it sounds like you're okay with feeding this way....and, maybe one day, you'll come back to 100% raw....but you gotta do what you gotta do....


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

But... you live on the border of Mexico.

Edited to add: I agree. It's totally your choice. No one will think less of you and if they do you shouldn't care anyway.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Not sure if you are interested, but there appear to be quite a few meat markets in El Paso:

El Paso meat markets | Find meat markets in El Paso, TX


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## Celt (Dec 27, 2010)

Yup, I live on the border but I don't go across the border. It ain't safe over there. Cartel warzone, although it's calmed some haven't heard about any "major" killings for a couple weeks now. A lot of businesses have moved over here. The local Walmart carries cheekmeat, tripitas (umm, small intestines, pink and occassionally fatty), feet, tripe, fat, neckbones, tails, kidneys, sweetmeats and a bunch of other stuff. During the holiday season, there's even pig heads, not many mind you or for very long.

I really haven't decided, I guess I just need to "talk it out". I want to stay with raw, but, I just don't know. Mostly, I guess, I'm wondering if I'm "hurting" my pups somehow


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Well, that list says they are in El Paso, not Juarez. Whatever you decide, it will be good. I don't think you are hurting them, though. Maybe you could still give them some bones to keep their teeth clean.


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## Celt (Dec 27, 2010)

xellil said:


> Not sure if you are interested, but there appear to be quite a few meat markets in El Paso:
> 
> El Paso meat markets | Find meat markets in El Paso, TX


I've been to most of them. The cheapest was Flores. They had beef neckbones for 1.50/lb and scraps for .69/lb.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

OK, sorry then. You said there weren't any so i didn't realize you had already been to alot of them.

I don't get the good deals other people seem to get. I pay $1.79 for beef heart. I figure I am making it up in vet bills, though. I am pretty lazy to spend alot of time looking for cheaper meat.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

It sounds to me like they are all excited about getting just "cookies" for dinner. There was no reason for them to scavenge because they already got the "goods" for dinner per se. 

You could see if they change their overall behavior for good, as well as noticed increased health if you do switch to half raw half kibble. I'd be interested to know if you do see benefits from doing both. There is only one way to find out!

ETA: The only "organic" meats our dogs get are the animals we butcher ourselves for them that we know are "naturally" reared. I don't think that the "quality" of the meat you give them has a great bearing on their overall health. 

Do you have any other health worries about them other than the scavenging behavior?


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Hey, isn't there a big open air Mexican market there? I wonder if they have meat sellers.


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## KittyKat (Feb 11, 2011)

This makes no sense to me... you feel bad that they want more raw.... which is a great diet.... so you are thinking of switching them to kibble.... so they won't bother you with their sniffing around for food?

Whatever meat you find is better then processed foods, i can tell you that much... then again anyone would know that so i'm not sure why you are questioning things.


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## swolek (Mar 31, 2011)

It sounds like you've made your decision, honestly. I'm surprised that there aren't any good meat markets there, there used to be tons of little Mexican groceries (assuming you're around El Paso which is what I guessed based on what you've said) but hey, you've gotta do what you've gotta do.

The "scavenging" thing doesn't seem like reason alone to switch, though. It just sounds like they want more raw meat which seems natural for most dogs . Bambi never begged for more food on kibble but it was because she didn't like it much. Sophie and Gracie beg regardless of the food, haha.

P.S. Worrying about your meat sources isn't a great reason to switch to kibble IMO. Why? Because I doubt that kibbles are using better than grocery store meats...


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## Celt (Dec 27, 2010)

Danemama-- I'm not sure about the "cookie" thing as the bisquits were the lowest value treat. They use to "turn their nose up" to them until they figured out nothing else was coming. I think that I'm leaning towards doing maybe 1 or 2 meals a week with kibble. With the "faux" raw meats (canned salmon, stuff like that) so that I'm not really mixing raw meat with kibble. There's no real health concerns involving their diet. Just me worrying about "is it enough". I have worry issues, lol.
xellil--Yes, there is. It recently reopened. I haven't been able to make it to the Mercado Mazapan, yet. I'm hoping to get a ride there next week.
KittyKat--It's not the "scavaging" per say that's bothering me. It's the thought that they're looking for food because they are still hungry/not getting enough. They haven't lost/gain any weight, so the amount "should" be right, but they're looking for more <shrug> and they didn't when they ate more than just meat.
swolek--A lot of the little "neighborhood stores" have either closed down or switched to be more like a regular convience store. <sigh> I miss being able to just "pop" down to the corner and get menudo or caldo de res or burritos de lengua. The Big Name Stores have been oozing into their "niche". Hades, you can go to some of the Sam's/Walmart/Big 8/Albertson's and get fresh made torillas, hot off the "grill", even fresh asadero cheese.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Celt said:


> KittyKat--It's not the "scavaging" per say that's bothering me. It's the thought that they're looking for food because they are still hungry/not getting enough. They haven't lost/gain any weight, so the amount "should" be right, but they're looking for more <shrug> and they didn't when they ate more than just meat.


I have one dog (Snorkels) who is always looking for food so there was no difference.

But with Rebel, he wasn't much interested in kibble either. Sometimes he would stand there and look at it for awhile, although he would eventually eat it.

With raw, he is dancing around me, whining like crazy, running back and forth to his bowl. Sometimes I have to make him lay down because he is driving me so nuts. 

And I have a hard time keeping him from gaining weight - i feel sure he is acting like that because he likes the food so much better, not because he is hungry. he acts like he is starving all the time which he never used to do. Maybe it is the same with yours?

Snorkels would eat anything and everything with exactly the same gusto. She was just as thrilled over her bowl of green beans as her dry food as her rib bone. Although come to think about it, she never leaped into the air to grab her bowl of food like she does with the rib bone.


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

Celt said:


> Danemama-- I'm not sure about the "cookie" thing as the bisquits were the lowest value treat. They use to "turn their nose up" to them until they figured out nothing else was coming. I think that I'm leaning towards doing maybe 1 or 2 meals a week with kibble. With the "faux" raw meats (canned salmon, stuff like that) so that I'm not really mixing raw meat with kibble. There's no real health concerns involving their diet. Just me worrying about "is it enough". I have worry issues, lol.
> xellil--Yes, there is. It recently reopened. I haven't been able to make it to the Mercado Mazapan, yet. I'm hoping to get a ride there next week.
> KittyKat--It's not the "scavaging" per say that's bothering me. It's the thought that they're looking for food because they are still hungry/not getting enough. They haven't lost/gain any weight, so the amount "should" be right, but they're looking for more <shrug> and they didn't when they ate more than just meat.
> swolek--A lot of the little "neighborhood stores" have either closed down or switched to be more like a regular convience store. <sigh> I miss being able to just "pop" down to the corner and get menudo or caldo de res or burritos de lengua. The Big Name Stores have been oozing into their "niche". Hades, you can go to some of the Sam's/Walmart/Big 8/Albertson's and get fresh made torillas, hot off the "grill", even fresh asadero cheese.


I think it sounds like they are just likeing raw more than you realize, maybe?


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## shellbell (Sep 24, 2011)

My dogs are ALWAYS looking for more food. They get super excited to eat their raw food, but they were also pretty excited about eating kibble. I still keep a jar of biscuit type dog treats on the counter, and DH gives them about one or two of these a day, and they drool and dance around in excitement for a dog biscuit. I do think that they seem more excited to eat raw than they ever did to eat kibble. But honestly, it may just be the fact that it takes me a bit longer to get their raw out and to take them upstairs to the crate if they are eating up there. So I’m not sure if their super excitedness is due to the fact that they really are more excited to eat raw, or the fact that they have a bit longer to wait for their food and build up their anticipation and dance around. When I was feeding kibble, they didn’t really get a chance to dance and drool too much, since I just dumped it in a bowl and handed it to them. 

Heck, my dogs get excited about eating sticks and leaves in the backyard.

I learned long ago not to let the fact that they SEEM to be hungry make me think that they actually need more food. If that was the case, I would have two very obese dogs, lol.


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## cprcheetah (Jul 14, 2010)

Ziva's a scavenger, always has been. If you think about it, dogs/wolves etc come down from a long line of scavengers. No matter WHAT I do Ziva acts like she's starving. The girl gets 8% of her body weight per day which is a TON of food, yet she still scours the house and yard for any tidbits that might have been left by anyone or anything. My dogs do get enhanced meat, sometimes it's unavoidable. IF they aren't showing signs of it causing a problem (rashes, diarrhea etc) I don't worry about it. I try to avoid it but sometimes it just happens.


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## minnieme (Jul 6, 2011)

I don't know that you'll entirely get rid of the scavenging even with the switch.... For example, on kibble the first time around, Minnie was somewhat indifferent towards it (I've theorized that perhaps this was because of a hot, hot summer which made her want less food....maybe.). Then we started raw and she was SO EXCITED to eat every. single. time. However, after our flop with raw and our return to kibble, she now is equally annoying about eating. She starts sniffing around and begging at 4pm even though she eats anywhere between 5 and 8pm. -___- This might be because we pretty much starved her while on raw (she lost 15 lbs in a month....) in our efforts to get her body to adjust.... *sigh* 

Stories aside, is giving them more meals per day an option?


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## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

Tess ate 3/4 of a pound of butter one time, and was still scavenging for food an hour later. She gets a very high amount of meat for her weight- 3/4lb-1lb, she is 10lb. She is just always hungry, a very fast metabolism.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Caty M said:


> Tess ate 3/4 of a pound of butter one time, and was still scavenging for food an hour later. She gets a very high amount of meat for her weight- 3/4lb-1lb, she is 10lb. She is just always hungry, a very fast metabolism.


Ha - that's like the time Snorkels got into the dog food and ate so much her stomach was hitting the ground and she eventually had to go to the ER for dehydration - within 10 minutes of eating the dog food she was in my dad's room begging him for cookies. I think she doesn't have whatever signal there is between her brain and her stomach that tells her she's full.


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