# new diagnosis of degenerative disease of the spine



## pittymama (Dec 9, 2010)

my 4 year old male pit bull, asa, has been seeing a neurologist for a couple of months now. he's had an MRI, a spinal tap and extensive blood work done. he's been taking prednisone for the last 8 weeks to treat auto immune disease (the neurologist found inflammation in his spine) and we are now weening him off of it since it isn't helping and the side effects are making him worse (muscle wasting, weight loss at first when on a higher dose, constant thirst and hunger, inability to relax and sleep for essentially the entire night). 

she now tells me his condition is degenerative, that he'll get worse with time but we can't predict how much worse and when. all of the unknowns are making me really nervous and upset but i'm just praying my little man won't pass early. 

his symptoms btw are intermittent lameness in his hind legs and incontinence. he has had a problem with his legs since i adopted him 3 years ago but it has certainly progressed over time. 

we are going to see a physical therapist soon and i'm trying to do as much research/talk to as many people as possible. 

does anyone here have any experience with this? 

please share if you do. my neurologist isn't telling me much and i feel she knows more but doesn't want to scare me because she knows how neurotic and worried i am. 

thank you. 


here's my lil monkey man in his diaper....i love him so much.


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## cast71 (Sep 16, 2010)

I'm not sure what your feeding, but you might want to feed a raw diet to help with the autoimmune. I wouldn't give a sick dog heartworm meds, flea and tick topicals, or vaccines. I'm not sure how much it will help, but I would supplement organic raw apple cider vinegar and extra virgin coconut oil. It will help with the pain from degenerative disk disease and also boost the immune system:wink: Give 2 tablesoopns of acv and 1 tablespoon of evco 5 days a week. Give 2 chopped up garlic cloves 3 days a week for heartworm and parasites. Garlic will also boost the immune system. I hope everything works out:frown:


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## pittymama (Dec 9, 2010)

thank you cast (don't know your name :smile. i guess i should have been more clear, the dr. no longer thinks it's auto immune since the prednisone did not help.

i know there are degenerative diseases that are also auto immune but she doesn't believe this to be the case here... 

thank you for your suggestions. i will certainly look into them. and yes, i am feeding raw. just switched a couple of weeks ago. i've been under the impression that garlic is toxic to dogs? it's on the aspca's list of poisonous substances too. not the case in your experience?


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

I'm so sorry youre going through this but that sweet boy is lucky to have someone care for him like you do. The neurologist may not be telling you much because they don't really know what is going on. Diseases like this are very hard to diagnose and treat. I don't have much advice to give other than just keep him comfortable and happy until he tells you it's time, then let him go in peace. Keep us all updated on his progress....


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## pittymama (Dec 9, 2010)

thanks natalie. i realize neurological diseases are very tough to diagnosis definitively and there is only so much the dr. can predict...guess i just wish she'd lay out more of the potential outcomes for me. i'm am entirely in the dark with regard to what to expect here, but guess that's the way it goes. on one hand things seem very grim, then on the other (depending whom i talking to/what i'm reading) it sounds he'll be _fine_ for a while. 

guess i just have to accept that i have to take it day by day. 

thanks for your reply....just really searching for insight. 

:hug: 

(my rescue forum has a hug smiley)


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Maybe just plain out ask for it all on the line. You shouldn't ever feel like you're in the dark with this kind of stuff, unless the vet comes back and says "I have no idea what is wrong with your dog". Or see another vet, maybe a holistic one. Maybe try some acupuncture to stimulate those nerves, I've seen this work well with dogs. 

Give him plenty of mental stimulation as well. Exercising the mind is important especially when he's immobilized at times. This will help keep him in good spirits. 

I wish you the both the best of luck. Keep up the good work you've given him!


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## RachelsaurusRexU (Sep 4, 2010)

Aw, I hope you're able to get more answers and I hope he has a good long life. I truly can't even imagine 

He is so adorable. Please give him a hug and a smooch from me?


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## cast71 (Sep 16, 2010)

Garlic has a bad rap, because it is linked to the onion family. Onion is toxic in small amounts. Garlic is no where near as toxic. Table salt, water, etc. would be toxic in very large amounts. I know of someone that has been feeding garlic to there dogs, for 30 years with only positive results. I know alot of others that feed garlic with no ill reults. The key is not to over due it. Just like anything else, moderation. Here's a link to check out. 

Garlic for Dogs | Is Garlic Safe for Dogs? 


I would give the raw diet awhile longer. It took my dog about 6 months on raw to fully recover from auto immune disease. More importantly I did stop all meds and vaccines. It probably wasn't really auto immune anyway, because I don't think he would of fully recovered if it was. I'm not saying your dogs degenerative spine condition will recover, but you would be suprised how much a dog can change with the right diet, in this case walking and try not to run, and staying away from vaccines and other unecessary meds. I think your dog might have a chance at a decent quality of life. The ACV, EVCO and garlic has done wonders for my self. If I do not take them, the pain kicks in. I've seen the same results with dogs:wink: Hope your dog feels better:smile:


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## pittymama (Dec 9, 2010)

thank you again cast. i am definitely staying with raw. been meaning to switch for some time now and have no intention of ever going back to kibble! i know first hand how relative diet is as i had to change mine to cure migraines years ago when nothing else would work. 

when your dog got an auto immune diagnosis was it any more specific than that? 

think i asked this in another thread but is that a dogo argentino in your avatar pic?


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## pittymama (Dec 9, 2010)

danemama08 said:


> Maybe just plain out ask for it all on the line. You shouldn't ever feel like you're in the dark with this kind of stuff, unless the vet comes back and says "I have no idea what is wrong with your dog". Or see another vet, maybe a holistic one. Maybe try some acupuncture to stimulate those nerves, I've seen this work well with dogs.


thanks natalie! yes, another friend recommended acupuncture and i would like to see a well known holistic vet here in new york as soon as i can as well. 

i'm going to speak to my regular vet to get more answers - she'll talk to the neuro for me then actually take the time to spell it all out. she seems to be more straight forward.


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## cast71 (Sep 16, 2010)

Are you talking about this holistic vet in NY Vet at the Barn, New York Vet, Chestnut Ridge Veterinarian, Chestnut Ridge Animal Hospital If not I highly recommended them. All the holistic people around here use them. There not cheap though. 

I went to around 5 vets. They could not figure out what was wrong with him. The last vet diagnosed him with autoimmune. I really think the culprit was the ivermectin in heartguard. He always would get sick in the summer and recover in the winter. He didn't recover one winter and would not respond to antibiotics or steroids. It was the same winter, my vet talked me into keeping him on heartworm year round, because it was cheaper than testing. Coincidence????

Yes he is a dogo. Fierce hunter:biggrin:


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## Katie Chumlee and Shorty (Oct 22, 2010)

Have you researched Tellington TTouch?

Smooches to your Pitty xoxo


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## cast71 (Sep 16, 2010)

Katie Chumlee and Shorty said:


> Have you researched Tellington TTouch?


I have, I can knock gunner out in seconds:wink:


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## pittymama (Dec 9, 2010)

cast71 said:


> Are you talking about this holistic vet in NY Vet at the Barn, New York Vet, Chestnut Ridge Veterinarian, Chestnut Ridge Animal Hospital If not I highly recommended them. All the holistic people around here use them. There not cheap though.
> 
> I went to around 5 vets. They could not figure out what was wrong with him. The last vet diagnosed him with autoimmune. I really think the culprit was the ivermectin in heartguard. He always would get sick in the summer and recover in the winter. He didn't recover one winter and would not respond to antibiotics or steroids. It was the same winter, my vet talked me into keeping him on heartworm year round, because it was cheaper than testing. Coincidence????
> 
> Yes he is a dogo. Fierce hunter:biggrin:


heartworm and frontline make me nervous too. i hate giving them to my dogs and try to avoid them during the cooler months. asa received several injections of ivermectin when i got him because he had mange. i hated giving it to him at the time but didn't know enough to trust other methods.

what were your dogs symptoms? 

my first dog that was my own was a dogo argentino. she now lives with my parents because she and my father fell in love and she left me for him. i'll find a pic for you. she's on the smaller side for a dogo. 

i'm not sure if that is the name of the clinic i was referred to, have to go back and check my email.


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

cast71 said:


> It was the same winter, my vet talked me into keeping him on heartworm year round, because it was cheaper than testing. Coincidence????


I think it sounds suspicous about the Heartguard. Your dog should be checked yearly for heartworm whether or not you use "prevenative" all year or not. I don't know where you live but my dogs only get 4 doses/year. Figure out how much 8 doses costs and I'll bet thats more than a test. I can't remember what tests cost but my vet doesn't charge for office visit if you only have a heartworm test.


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## cast71 (Sep 16, 2010)

pittymama said:


> heartworm and frontline make me nervous too. i hate giving them to my dogs and try to avoid them during the cooler months. asa received several injections of ivermectin when i got him because he had mange. i hated giving it to him at the time but didn't know enough to trust other methods.
> 
> what were your dogs symptoms?
> 
> ...


I would love to see pictures. We could trade, I have a bunch. I can totally understand your dog leaving you for your father. There super affectionate, but there a 1 person dog. And they choose you, not the other way around ahahahaha There so stubborn, but i'm hooked:biggrin:

My dog had 100's of infected pimples all over and in his ears. It was from a compromised immune system. Yeast started to take over. The yeast was coming out through every pimple on his body. One of the nastiest things I ever had to deal with. This went on for 3 years, while I kept jumping to different vets. All I can say is thanks to nature for supplying proper food and medicine :smile: Also I have an alternative wash, thats effective against mange. It's like dipping with no toxic chemicals. Here's a link http://dogfoodchat.com/forum/raw-feeding/5370-has-anyone-used-neem-oil.html

Also RAW FED Dog has a great minimal heart worm medicine schedule. Here's a link
http://dogfoodchat.com/forum/dog-health-issues-question/5149-heartgard-question.html


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## cast71 (Sep 16, 2010)

RawFedDogs said:


> I think it sounds suspicous about the Heartguard. Your dog should be checked yearly for heartworm whether or not you use "prevenative" all year or not. I don't know where you live but my dogs only get 4 doses/year. Figure out how much 8 doses costs and I'll bet thats more than a test. I can't remember what tests cost but my vet doesn't charge for office visit if you only have a heartworm test.


That's how I feel, but most vets around hear like to skip yearly testing and keep dogs on heartguard year round. They say that after the initial test comes back negative, there's no reason to retest, as long as there on heartworm med year round. I only did the year round schedule the last year, I ever gave heart worm med. I live in upstate NY. Makes no sense to give year round. I think your schedule is good. I might have stuck with it if I knew about the 4 dose schedule. Know I'm tramatized  You should patent the 4 dose schedule:wink:


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## stajbs (Jun 5, 2010)

Gotta admit I too would wonder about a holistic vet, acupuncture, and a chiropractic vet. I've seen all three work wonders and keep dogs feeling lots better for a long time.


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## KC23 (Nov 17, 2010)

Hi. I am very sorry that you have to deal with this--I know it's heartbreaking to see a pet suffer. I used to have a large mixed dog--he lived to be 13 1/2. I recall him stumbling on some walks--even 2-3 years before he died. Later on, he was diagnosed w/some kind of degenerative problem of the spine--and I think the vet figured he had arthritis too. His back legs got really wobbly--looked like he was walking around on stilts. We had to lay rugs down on our kitchen floor so he wouldn't slip on it--if that happened, he couldn't get up. I always felt bad because we have a split-level house and our dog had no choice but to go up and down steps inside and outside the house. You might want to consider a lift/support to help take some of the weight off his legs at times--especially if he has to go up/down steps. The vet put my dog on pills for pain--I believe Rimadyl. She told me that he would continue to deteriorate as his back legs were slowly becoming paralyzed. What happens is--the dog loses control of his bladder and bowels too w/this condition. My poor dog would get up from sleeping, and would be laying on a bowel movement that I'm sure he had no idea that he made. Fortunately, he didn't have any problems with losing control of his bladder.

Your dog is so young, and I don't want to say that your dog has exactly what my dog had, but I just wanted to share my story w/you since you asked if any of us had any similar experiences. 

I am glad you are taking such good care of your dog. Best of luck to you and him.


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## pittymama (Dec 9, 2010)

KC23 said:


> My poor dog would get up from sleeping, and would be laying on a bowel movement that I'm sure he had no idea that he made. Fortunately, he didn't have any problems with losing control of his bladder.


thank you so much for sharing your story. so sorry to hear you had to go through something similar. 

with regard to the above, asa seems to be experiencing somewhat of the same. oftentimes he seems to have little to no warning before a bowel movement is coming, and he can also have it happen while he's still laying down. poor guy. 

anyway, his urinary incontinence has been much easier for me to handle since switching to raw/him drinking less water. i am very grateful for that. 

he seems to be doing better since almost off the prednisone. i'm just praying he'll stay around for a while. he really is very young. 

thank you again


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## pittymama (Dec 9, 2010)

cast71 said:


> I can totally understand your dog leaving you for your father. There super affectionate, but there a 1 person dog. And they choose you, not the other way around ahahahaha There so stubborn, but i'm hooked:biggrin:


oh great! wait until i tell my father this! do you know, he had the nerve to tell me yesterday that he is jealous he didn't get to raise her as a puppy!? i responded 'dad, i only had her for a year before you stole her from me!' unbelievable. she is his princess though. :redface:

i will certainly share pics shortly! would love to see yours as well!


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## cast71 (Sep 16, 2010)

pittymama said:


> oh great! wait until i tell my father this! do you know, he had the nerve to tell me yesterday that he is jealous he didn't get to raise her as a puppy!? i responded 'dad, i only had her for a year before you stole her from me!' unbelievable. she is his princess though. :redface:
> 
> i will certainly share pics shortly! would love to see yours as well!


I can understand where your dads coming from:biggrin: They really do attach themselves to you. If I'm gone too long, he starts worrying. They will also die for you and I feel the same way:smile: No one can get into my house, without being properly greeted. The boss has to check you out first ahahahaha. That's awesome that you started raw and more importantly that you ditched the prednisone. That stuff is bad long term. It also makes dogs urinate more. Keep us updated.


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