# Dog food challenge



## Indy1204 (Jul 14, 2011)

Hello everyone. I Was hoping I could get some input from this fine community about a problem I've been having with my boy. Here's a quick intro.

I've got a 7 month only Alaskan Malamute named Indy. (Short for Indiana Jones  He's approx. 75lbs and for the most part is very healthy. The problem is we've been dealing with soft stool and diarrhea on and off since we got him. I've been through countless foods and through trial and error I "think" I've narrowed it down somewhat to what he doesn't do well with. I was hoping someone out there could help me find a food that would be similar to what we're using now. (Nature's Variety Limited Ingredient Diet, Lamb Meal Formula) Everything is perfect with this food. Problem is it is very expensive. Cheapest I can find it where I live in Canada is $84 before taxes for a 25lb bag. Here are my findings/questions.


Must be a grain free food.
Must contain NO chicken.
Haven't been able to pin point potatoes as being a problem, would like to avoid if possible.
Seems fine with red meats.
Fish, not sure. Started him out with Orijen 6-Fish but it gave him the runs. Not sure if it was too high a protein for such a young pup, but I've been afraid to try again.

** One more piece of info. Tried to go from the Nature's Variety to Acana Lamb and Apple over the course of about 1.5 weeks and that gave him the runs. I know this has grains but I wasn't sure how he would handle it. So it could be that or the potatoes in it...who knows. Ultimately I was trying to go from the Lamb and Apple to the Acana Ranchlands. It's red meat only, grain free but has potatoes. Perhaps Acana is too rich.

Anyone have any food suggestions?

Thanks for the help.


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## dr tim (Mar 27, 2011)

When you suspect food might be an issue with soft stools and such I look at several things;

1. Is the dog hungry and want to eat.
2. Is the dog holding weight or losing weight.
3. Is the stool mucousy or shiny or just a soft blop.
4. Any vomiting.

If I have a hungry, non vomiting, non weight losing dog with soft stools, then I would go to feeding half the amount of whatever food the dog is eating and see if the stools firm up. If they do, you are probably overfeeding the food. If they don't the food isn't right for that dog as a general rule. Parasites can be an issue at times in different parts of the country but those tend to cause weight lose.. 

If it is a shiny stool, the dog has colitis which may not be the food as the cause. Losing weight, possibly something else. Appetite poor, possibly something else as well. But in checking to see if the food might be the culprit, that is how I start it all off with out seeing the doc.

As to Malamutes, they are a working breed and fiber plays an important part in the diet, so consider that in choosing a diet along with higher fat and protein levels. Overall, they are a healthy breed with little GI issues, in my experience. And I have a kitten on my keyboard right nowgv


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## Indy1204 (Jul 14, 2011)

*Thanks*

Thanks for the reply. Here are the answers to your follow up questions.


He always eats. Even when he's tired he'll jump up to wolf it down.
He is putting weight on every day it seems. He's never dropped weight.
The stool hasn't seemed mucousy, but shiny yes, depending on how shiny stool looks I suppose. It went from completely firm on the Nature's Variety to soft on the Lamb and Apple to complete diarrhea.
No vomiting.

Should I just suck it up and stick with the Nature's Variety? It seems like a high quality food, but I'm afraid it could be missing valuable nutrients.

I've also considered trying the Acana Pacifica Fish Kibble. We tried the Origen six-fish, but he was only about 10 weeks old and perhaps it was just too much. Should I revisit fish?

Thanks again.


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## dr tim (Mar 27, 2011)

Give 1/2 what you are feeding for 3 days and see if the stools firm up. If they do, you are overfeeding. If they don't, different food.


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## Jack Monzon (Jul 25, 2010)

How long have you had him? Is he from a breeder?


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## Indy1204 (Jul 14, 2011)

I will try cutting his intake to see if that helps. We've had him since two months and he's seven months now. He is from a breeder.


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## Jack Monzon (Jul 25, 2010)

Was Indy doing poorly on the food the breeder sent him home on?


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## Indy1204 (Jul 14, 2011)

It was Eukenuba I believe. I don't recall hearing about any issues. We wanted to use a higher quality food. We have tried Eukenuba again, but the loose stools remained. Everything with chicken has been bad.


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## monkeys23 (Dec 8, 2010)

Acana Grasslands, Ranchlands, or Pacifica would be great. OR Orijen Regional Red and 6 Fish are another option.

Or you could try The Honest Kitchen. Embark and Zeal have turkey and fish respectively.

As someone who also has a Northern breed, might I suggest going over to the raw section and looking into transitioning to prey model raw? Its great for all dogs, but Northern breeds especially seem to take to it like ducks to water and have no more tummy issues. :wink:


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## cast71 (Sep 16, 2010)

I also think you could be overfeeding. How much food are you giving and what is the kcal/cup? Since you live in canada, I'm guessing orijen and acana would be cheaper?


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## Serendipity (Aug 13, 2010)

I suspect overfeeding as well.


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## Indy1204 (Jul 14, 2011)

Thank you everyone for the replies. The vet said he was a bit thin and to increase his food, so I did. After hearing from all of you I'm going to back it off for a few days and see if that helps. I thought she was nuts when she told me. There is a nice layer of fat over the ribs, but you can still feel them. He's also 7 months and 75lbs. Seems pretty hefty to me.

In regards to the raw diet I would love to be able to do that, but I imagine that would cost quite a bit. He's worth every penny, but I just bought a house with a big yard for him! Money is a touch tight for now. Anyone able to provide some numbers as to what a raw diet would cost per month? I'm guessing he'll top out around 100lbs.

Thanks again, everyone.


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

A lot depends on what part of the country you are in, if you have contacts with people who hunt, famers/ranchers, access to meat processors. I currently feed 4 collies and 2 shelties plus a litter of shelties raw for less than $1 per pound and about 80-100 dollars per month. If I get venison or ducks form hutners it is cheaper. Check the raw feeding section of this forum for more information and look up others beginning posts to see if it is something you can do. It is not to hard with one dog.


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## cast71 (Sep 16, 2010)

That sux that your vet thought he was skinny. I guess your vet is like a majority of the people out there that are use to seeing obese dogs. With obesity comes diseases like diabetes, cancer, organ failure and the list goes on. You should easily be able to feel his ribs and also be able to see his waist line from looking above. Usually if you see the first rib, that's ok, but in your case I would think not. That would be because he has such a thick coat. For a 75lb dog you should be feeding around 1000 to 1300 kcal/day which is probably around 2.5 to 3 cups. That can be lower or higher depending on the food your feeding. If it turns out to be overfeeding, you should look into foods like orijen that contain mostly animal product and higher proteins and fat.


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## Indy1204 (Jul 14, 2011)

WOW! $100 for 6+ dogs a month! The stuff I'm having to feed now is $91 a pop and that doesn't even last a month. I will definitely look into the raw option. I'll also calculate out how many cals he is currently getting and compare it the post above. Thanks all.

P.S. I've gotten more help in a couple hours here then I have in many other boards combined over the course of weeks. Great community here. Glad I found it.


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## malluver1005 (Nov 15, 2009)

I'm guessing overfeeding too. Malamutes need very little food for their size. A lot of vets are used to seeing chuby, overweight dogs so what he/she thinks is thin, might actually be a little overweight. Not saying that your mal is overweight. You are supposed to feel ribs with a small layer of skin covering them...

ETA: Come on over to the raw section and we'll definitely help you out.


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## dmgmn (Apr 24, 2011)

Have you tried BB Wilderness or is it available where you are? I too agree that it might just be an overfeeding thing. But it could also be as simple as not allowing a long enough transition period also.
BB wilderness is considerably higher in fiber than most and is a very good grain free kibble.
This is a great bunch here at DFC isn't it?
Good Luck!


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## Neeko (Aug 11, 2010)

BB Wilderness is a good food, but ALL of their formulas contain chicken, which OP states Indy has problem with. If it is not over feeding, you could try an enzyme supplement, or probiotics. You could try Dogswell Nutrisca Salmon and Chickpea dog food, which is chicken and potato free. Good luck. Indy is an adorable pup, and I am quite fond of the name!

ETA: I just looked up NV LI Lamb. *I* feel it has too much calcium for a growing large breed pup. I cannot find the Ca content for the Nutrisca. Does anyone else know?


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## sganow (Apr 16, 2009)

Have you tried the regular Nature's Variety Instinct foods (instead of the limited ingredients formulas)? Maybe they could work for you? Just a thought since the Nature's Variety Limited Ingredients formula works. I would think it has to be a little cheaper and more readily available. It is a good high protein grain free food that doesn't contain any potato. My dogs love it.


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## SerenityFL (Sep 28, 2010)

Indy1204 said:


> WOW! $100 for 6+ dogs a month! The stuff I'm having to feed now is $91 a pop and that doesn't even last a month. I will definitely look into the raw option. I'll also calculate out how many cals he is currently getting and compare it the post above. Thanks all.
> 
> P.S. I've gotten more help in a couple hours here then I have in many other boards combined over the course of weeks. Great community here. Glad I found it.


I'm a raw feeder and I of course support it but I want to throw a little reality in here...you MAY be able to find prices like that, you may not. For a 100lb (potential) dog, you'll be feeding about 2-3 lbs of food per day on raw. Multiply by 30 days and you are looking at, IF you can find food for a dollar a pound, $60-90 a month. 

I am not trying to dissuade you or say that any poster who says they can feed so inexpensively is wrong or not truthful because it CAN happen. I would merely suggest that you really look in to it, if you decide you want to try it, before you try it, try to find co-ops or butchers or places that sell meat a little cheaper than grocery stores.

Some people have exceptional luck in finding great sources and it definitely makes feeding dogs cheaper than any other source but, that is not always the case. In some places, it can be extremely difficult to find such excellent prices. So really look before you take the leap.

To give you an example: When I lived in Miami, I could not find any co-ops. I could not find any butchers that would sell to me, (or there was a serious language barrier that did NOT help), OR I could find one but I had to buy the entire pig and I don't have the room for an entire pig plus other proteins so it was not feasible. I did have a co-worker who hunted and was willing to let me have what he didn't take but those trips were not always successful and sometimes they were done on a four wheeler which meant all the good stuff for the dogs was left behind. Therefore, my cost to feed 2 dogs and 7 cats was coming up to about $300 a month. (Not a typo.)

In Maine, just at the grocery store alone cut it down to about half that price. I have now found a butcher where I can at least get chicken for well under a dollar a pound. I am waiting to see what else I can get. There is also the potential of a slaughterhouse that sells but I have to check out the beef before I'll buy.

I have not found any co-ops that are not an at least 3 hour drive, one way, from me...so a co-op is not going to work at this time. 

Your one dog equals the weight of my two dogs and 3 of the cats. So you MAY find that feeding raw is cheaper, you may find it is not. You may find that Orijen or whatever other food you choose ends up being cheaper. You may not. 

Just putting some perspective in here that while good deals CAN be found and some people make out very well, it's not always the case. So research hard before taking the plunge if you're concerned about cost.


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## schtuffy (May 17, 2010)

I agree with Serenity, it's hard for me to find meat other than chicken for less than $2/lb in my area. It's affordable for me because I have a small dog. Shop around for meat prices, but in the meantime cut back on the Orijen. I used to feed the puppy formula, and my dog ate less than half of what was recommended on the bag.


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

I totally agree, we have an awesome co-op, great sales and meat processors who work with indiividuals. I also knwo alot of hunters and fishermen. It takes work but it is worth it. Collies are very easy keepers considering they can be large. My male is 90 pounds and only eats 1 3/4 a day to maintain a good weight. I have heard malamutes and husky's are similar in their dietary needs - unless they are sled dogs of course. Do your homework before hand and know your area is all I can say. It has taken a year to build enough contacts to keep my costs low. Sometimes what keeps the cost lower for me is the abiltiy to feed bigger cuts that I can get cheap like turkey necks (.69) and ribs on sale that helps as well as takign advantage of seasonal sales. All good things take effort. For me the benefits far, far outweigh the work. Good Luck.


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## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

DEFINITELY come over and check out raw. I am a part of the same co-op as Liz and several of the other Washingtonians and through it, we just got a 47 pound calf (we weighed it) for $35. Those deals don't happen as often as we would all like, but it is easy to stock up on things like that when they come around. We also recently had a GREAT deal on chicken necks. $.30-something per pound!

The hardest part is finding your sources, but once you do, it's a cinch. We just found a butcher who can order us 40 lbs of chicken backs for $.40 b and 60 lbs of beef heart for $67. We feed a smooth collie ( 7 years old at 78 lbs and gets about 1 1/2 lbs per day) and a bluetick coonhound pup ( 16 weeks and will top out between 70 and 100 lbs ho gets about 2-2 1/4 lbd per day). We had been feeding Pedigree (I know, I know!) for years and had switched Dude to a great food that was $60 for a 30 lb bag. The day we got Buck was the day we switched to raw and what a difference it has made! Not just in the cost, but in the dogs as well. No potbelly on the pup. No more dull coats. I thought it was going to be SO hard! I debated on whether to switch Dude for years! The folks here on DFC finally convinced me. I haven't looked back!

Feeding raw to a mal would probably take care of his issues. He might have loose stool still at first due to the transition but once his system adjusts and you figure out how he needs to be fed, it will go away. Being so young, he would take to it much more easily. And as far as the chicken, some dogs are totally fine with raw chicken but can't handle cooked (like what you find in dog food).


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