# Considering a switch in food



## Maxy24 (Mar 5, 2011)

We currently feed Tucker Taste of the Wild, we rotate between all of the flavors. I think we should try him on a different food. He's healthy and all but the dog has some serious gas and SUPER stinky poop. He is also a little dry and flaky in the skin department and has some prominent tear stains (I don't know if that has anything to do with his food though). Taste of the Wild was highly recommended to me from other dog people because it's grain free but not super expensive. I'd prefer not to spend much more than we spend now because it's not my money, it's my parents', and without me the dog would be eating pedigree and the cats purina cat chow. So, since they've been so tolerant of my animal addiction, allowing me to choose what we feed even when they have to dole out the cash, I'd like to prevent them from having to spend even more money than I already have them spend.

Anyways, I'm thinking his issues may be from the large amount of potato in TOTW, but I'm not sure. I know I thought that it might be a problem with my cats' food back when I fed them kibble. I had switched them from Felidae to Before Grain after felidae changed ingredients a few years ago but after several months they continued to have very stinky, soft poop. I discovered that Felidae didn't have potato so I switched them to cal. natural and their poo improved dramatically. They don't eat kibble anymore though. So I was thinking maybe it was something similar, potato problems. But I don't really know.

So I'm looking for ideas on what foods to try that are very high quality but in the same price range as TOTW (if possible). I also wonder what sort of protein, fat, and fiber percentages you like to see in a kibble. So any opinions on that would be appreciated.

I want to try and get it right with the next food. My parents don't like all this jumping around with food. They let me do it with the cats because I was the one picking out the food, but with me in college they have to go to the store and I think they get confused lol. Plus they are used to just putting the dog on a food and never changing it ever. Max, our first dog was on Pedigree from the day we got him until he was 10 years old (I switched him to natural balance near the end once I started learning about food). They don't attribute anything like dry skin or smelly poop to food, they just assume that's how the particular dog is. So they are hesitant to change foods around, they are afraid it'll upset his stomach or something. I bet I can convince them once, but not over and over again.


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## Unosmom (May 3, 2009)

you can try grain free/potato free, see if that makes a difference. Theres nutrisca, natures variety instinct and horizon legacy. 
Though they are more expensive then Totw, if you shop around, you can find a decent deal. I just got 2 bags of nutrisca, online for $40 each (lamb and chicken formulas) with shipping since i had a 20% off coupon code: NBP20LGB

Nutrisca | PetFoodDirect.com

NV chicken is also on sale:
Nature's Variety Instinct Grain Free Chicken Dry Dog Food

NV also has a coupon for new customers
Get a coupon to Try Nature's Variety! | Nature's Variety


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## debtee88 (Mar 6, 2011)

A few things come to mind - does Tucker snitch any cat food? That would probably be pretty rich for his system. Also, for flaky skin - do you deworm yearly? Don't bother with a fecal test, which usually won't show tapeworms even when your dog has them, just ask for a Drontal Plus pill. If the vet tech says you need to have a worm check, blah, blah, remind him/her that you want to make sure there are no tapeworms, and a fecal check rarely detects them. Tapeworms are easily obtained by dogs by ingesting a flea that has the larvae (the dog can ingest the flea when gnawing at himself if he has a flea). So even if your dog had fleas a year ago, for instance, he could now still have them, and they take some of the nutrition from the dog, causing dry skin. Most dogs can have worms without looking either skinny or bloated, so I do the Drontal Plus yearly. I have seen several dogs get dewormed and then the skin stops flaking and the eyes stop staining! (It will take a few weeks to really see the improvement.)

About the food - Taste of the Wild, in my opinion, has so far been one of the best foods in a "moderate" (relatively speaking) price range. Although there are some better foods, I do not believe that you need to spend more and/or switch foods. However, I would quit switching varieties. Why?

Your dog is exhibiting digestive issues. In order to help these, he needs a more stable diet. Also, the fish variety of TOTW has less protein/more carbs than the others. More carbs CAN contribute to flaky skin and tear staining (and digestive issues). The Wetlands Variety (fowl mixture) is probably the easiest to digest for most dogs, so I would try sticking with that while looking at the other possibilities that may be affecting him. 

Knowing that excessive carbs can cause most of what you describe, make sure that the dog is not getting "carb-y" treats. One grooming client of mine simply cut out all the special sweet-potato treats she had been feeding her dog after I informed her about reducing carbs for her yeasty dog; after 6 weeks he is almost 90% improved! Because of the gas issue, I would feed the dog pieces of food as his "treatds" for a month or so, and see if one variety and NOTHING ELSE helps stabilize his gas and BM issues.

If 3-6 weeks on one variety with no other foods ingested does not show an improvement in gas and stinking BM's, I would seriously consider helping this dog out by giving probiotics for a while. In fact, I'd probably start them now with the issues that he is showing. I am so far not a big fan of the "usual" blends for dogs. I get Udo's Choice Infant probiotics from the health food store. It is a powder that is refrigerated. (I think the children/adult versions are a pill, so the powder is much easier and can be started a little at a time; I have found that a 10-pound dogs improves with only 1/2 of the recommended dose listed on the bottle. Just a tiny sprinkle on the food of a small dog (there doesn't seem to be a taste -I've tried them) will provide a lot more digestive bacteria for your dog until he is stabilized. With the gas, the food changes, the stinky (somewhat improperly digested?) poop, I am thinking just one bottle of this will help him out at this point. It's under $20, and it saved one of my dogs from chronic colitis that almost killed her when I first got her. (This was after many vet visits that were not helping her.) Don't give the amount stated on the bottle - I probably give one-SIXTH of a teaspoon, if that. Also, don't confuse yoghurt with a good blend of probiotics. Yoghurt usually contains just one digestive bacteria while this blend contains seven!! Also, yoghurt adds carbs, which you definitely do not want to do.

Also, I took a look at your profile and photos, so I saw that Tucker is a small dog. And you are away at school, right? Do your parents feed him treats/people food? Just a few mouthfuls a day can make a big difference for a small dog, so maybe they are giving him toast and butter or something? Just wondering - that kind of thing can definitely cause gas problems and stinky BM's, too. But you won't likely be able to stop them doing that. However, if he sticks to one food, gets dewormed and tries the probiotics, you could see a great reduction in his problems even if they "sabotage" his food intake.

Sorry this is so long - I wanted to cover all the usual suspects, haha.


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## CavePaws (Jan 25, 2011)

On foods that contained a high amount of carbs we were getting a lot of gas...Switching foods helped, but we switched to something that was a little more expensive than TOTW, it was wellness core. I think Totw is really good, the advice you were given on not mixing up the food too much might be a good thing - for now. Pick the food that he seems to do best on and use that as his staple diet. Let him have the time to adjust to it. Then, if you like, or your parents like, they could start adding in cooked meats for variety and flavor. Ask them not to give him any treats, too many for a small dog (and that can be not many at all) can give them digestive upset, especially if it has a lot of carbs or is super fatty.

I would suggest Sardines for the skin issues. You can get Salmon oil for that as well. I think Sardines might be cheaper in the long run if you can find a fair amount of them in a can. I also like them because they are a whole food and add to the variety your dog is getting protein wise. But he is having issues with just regulating himself on kibble now, so you may hold off on giving him Sardines just yet and when the digestive upset slows down slowly start incorporating.

I don't know much about probiotics, only that when we tried them for the gas issues with our dogs, it didn't touch it a bit. The switch in food to one with higher protein, higher fat, and less carbs worked out. It fixed all skin issues we were having as well as digestive upset and gas problems. 

As for Totw I think the High Prairie or Wetlands formulas would be good choices to choose between for now.

Don't know much about Nutrisca, could be a food worth checking out if it has less carbs than Totw.


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## Maxy24 (Mar 5, 2011)

Thank you for the replies. I'll look at the price of Instinct next time I go home and see if it is reasonable. I don't think our stores carry the other foods.

He does not eat any cat food, they are fed in my room which is gated off to keep him out, one of them steals his food actually...it's a problem lol. We got Tucker in August and he was wormed after that, so he is not due for more until his next annual visit. I'll tell them to stick with one formula of the TOTW. I didn't see a problem with them switching around, I do it with my cats (or else they stop eating), they never have the same can of food two days in a row, they get different brands and flavors and it's never been a problem. I've also heard that rotating when a dog is young can prevent the digestive upsets that can occur with switching foods as their systems don't get so used to just one kind of food. I should also mention he gets wet food mixed in with his dry, again we change flavors. We buy both before grain and wellness wet foods, should we stick with one brand and one flavor for wet food as well?

His training treats have been natural balance, old mother hubbard (the soft little training ones), pet botanical ones (which do have nasty ingredients), and natural balance rolls for potty training. What training treats would you recommend (they either need to be small or soft so I can cut them). He will not accept his kibble as treats and this dog needs training sessions daily, he already spends his entire day trying to find things to do and it ends badly for our possessions, he does not settle down until he passes out. Taking away his mental stimulation would be bad. Plus he has a fear of strangers that I'm trying to work with him on, treats are required...really good treats. Could I use left over meat from dinner? I made him a whole bunch of treats from venison (just beat it thin and baked) that I used to fill his treat ball with. I used chicken strips from dogswell to fill it too. No treats is not an option unfortunately, but I can be more picky about ingredients if that will help.

My dad may be giving him some people food. I had said they could give him some left over meat in his bowl if they wanted to (I told them to do this while he was eating his kibble to try and prevent resource guarding) but I'm sure dad does more. I know whenever he eats tortilla chips or fritos he gives some to one of the cats, I'm sure the dog gets some too, probably any other hand out he looks like he wants. My dad is a pain when it comes to encouraging bad habits. I'll make sure he stops if he is indeed doing this (or I'll give it my best try).

I don't want to give you the impression that he is miserable. He's not, he seems a little itchy but he has been like that since we got him, actually he's light-years better as he came to us with a bit of mange, he's never been less itchy than he is now. His poop isn't pudding or anything, Just compared to my cats' poop it's soft and it does stink. My cats have little hard nugget poops that I have to stick my face next to in order to smell. If their poop lands on the carpet it leaves no mark. The gas and tear staining are our biggest complaints but they don't bother him, or at least he's never shown signs of seeming uncomfortable because of the gas.
I will talk with my parents about probiotics and see what they think. How long do you give them for?

I really appreciate the help, sorry if I'm being difficult, but I can't cut out treats, his behavior is far more urgent than the food concerns.


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## Maxy24 (Mar 5, 2011)

Sorry cavepaws, you replied while I was typing. 
I know our store carries core, I'll check the price of that too. I might just makes giant list and then post up the foods that fall into a reasonable price range and see if you all think any would be better than the TOTW.

I know he likes sardines, I give them to my cats so he's gotten them too. If the skin does not improve with the other recommendations, how often would you suggest I give sardines?

Any changes, other than just sticking to one formula, will likely wait until May when I go home for the summer so that I can monitor his progress, but we'll see.


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## CavePaws (Jan 25, 2011)

My large dogs get 2 sardines 3-4 times a week...You could probably get away with doing 1 sardine every other day or 1/2 a sardine every day for the skin issues? I couldn't be sure of the exact amount as I'm not well versed on exact amounts.  I give our dog Puck only one when he gets them, he is around 15 lbs. Anymore and our dogs poo starts getting a little bit softer than I'd like. Don't know why, it's just how sardines effect my pups. I try to get the kind in water w/ no salt. I let them lick up the juices from the sardines as well.

If your dog is getting fritos or anything with corn I'd ask your dad to avoid those at all costs. Anything with grain really, like bread, or crackers, I'd stay away from...You're feeding him a grain-free food for a reason. ;]

I think Natural Balance has a lot of sugar in it if I remember correctly that could contribute to gas...It is the Meat Log you're feeding right? I would get pro-treats freeze dried liver, or Zukes if you could. They are low in calories, grain free, and typically really good training treats. You can break them up into really small pieces. 

Switching up foods can be good, but give your dog time to adjust to each one would be my recommendation. So, if you're doing one variety of TotW the first time you feed it feed it for 2-3 weeks...Then if all goes well try another variety, try that and see how his stools compare...If he doesn't adjust well within a week or so there might be something he doesn't agree with in it.
Core goes for around 58.00/26 lb bag. I got it at 50.00/26 lb bag with coupons from Petco. I was getting about 15% off each purchase with coupons, petperks cards, and frequent buyer discounts. W/ tax, full price at petco is around 61.00 per 26 lbs.

edit: I'm pretty sure the costs of a high quality food will pay off in the end...We haven't had to take our dogs to the vet for anything health related since I've made our food switch. 
Well, one dog had to go because she needed meds for a mental illness completely unrelated to food...But that doesn't count imo. 

OH. And when I said cooked meats I meant unseasoned cook meats. It's imperative they are unseasoned, seasonings can mess with your dogs digestive system as well. This could be a cause if your dog is getting scrap meat from plates as it could have a lot of seasoning...When I added cooked meats to our dogs kibble I would boil the meat until it was falling off the bone when picking it up. Then I'd use the broth to pour over their kibble.


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## doggiedad (Jan 23, 2011)

when i feed my dog sardines i use the kind in spring water with no
salt added.



CavePaws said:


> I would suggest Sardines for the skin issues.


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## cast71 (Sep 16, 2010)

As already mentioned, Nutrisca is decent and cost about the same as TOTW. Also earthborn holistic is around the same price. One formula is potato free. Earthborn Grain-Free Dog Food and other Earthborn pet products on sale at DoggieFood.com I like foods in the low to mid 30% range for protein, 17-20 for fat and the lower the better on the carbs. These 2 brands have about 36% carbs. The primitive natural formula has even less carbs. I supplement with meat to even lower the carbs further;0)


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