# Tucker has seen the neurologist....long.



## tuckersmom20 (Dec 12, 2010)

Hi everyone,

Was going to post thursday night, the same day he saw the neuro....but needed some time to digest it all.

He went to the university of Guelph small animal clinic and the staff was amazing.
When we got there we waited a little bit, then got called to an exam where we met with a student neurologist....she was just taking all info about him and his seizures.
She was basically the collector lol.

Then...she whisked tuck away to the back where he met the neurologist and was told they did a full neuro exam.
Tuck came back to me 20 mins later where we waited for a few mins then the neurologist showed up.

She was an amazing woman. She was surprised about all the research I've been doing about this horrible disease and how I know so much.

The outcome:

Tuck is a true epileptic. He suffers from partial focal seizures that happen overnight because his brain is relaxed which naturally lowers the seizure threshold. Which allows seizures to break through.
She is certain that he has the epilepsy gene... Although a bit different from purebred Labradors who's gene is basically of one that produces only grand mals....his is different, it produces partial seizures...and the very very occasional grand mal.
I asked about a MRI, she was 95% sure that an MRI would not show anything that would help, because his exam was completely normal...even though he was suffering from seizures for a year prior to meds.

She also agrees that phenobarbital is not doing its full job at all. Break through seizures can happen, but not this close together and like clockwork.
Here's where it gets interesting....she would like him on zonisamide....I actually really wanted him on zoni.
The dilemma...it is only FDA approved in the US, but she has the ability to order the med from a pharmacy in the US and get it shipped across the border. That's our game plan.
Yesterday evening the pharmacy in arizona called me, I gave credit card info and his meds will be here in a week.

On another note, she did a full CBC on tuck...and a bile acid test.
CBC is standard procedure, the bile acid was an add on.

She wanted to do the bile acid test because of the correlation of pork and his seizures.
Sometimes if the liver cannot retrieve bile acids well enough to break down the protein...it freaks out, and the imbalance causes a seizure. This would also mean weak liver or liver damage.

We did the test.
I got the call for results today.

His CBC was remarkable (neuro used those words!) and his bile acid test was normal.
His liver is in great shape, and can do its full job and will be able to handle zoni.

She also supports the raw diet, but like any vet...stressed the issue of bacteria after he's eaten and then say licked a baby.
There's no babies here so she said continue with what we're doing. She said it is not the cause for seizures.

The ending.....his seizures are partials now, but she says as he ages the seizures will change too. They can become stronger focal seizures , or they can become grand mals that are more violent....basically as they age, the epilepsy gets worse.

So.... I hope to god one day that someone can find a way to get rid of this disease.
I hate epilepsy....please leave Tuck alone.

I am optimistic, but yet feel defeated as well.
I found out what I wanted to know, but it only solidifies that this monster is going nowhere and will probably make things more hell in the future.

Tuck...mommy loves you. I'm sorry I can't fix you.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Oh dear. That's not the best news. I guess you do know exactly what's going on and what you're facing. So sorry for Tuck but maybe the new medicine will help.

And it's great that she didn't tell you the raw food was causing all his problems. That's really encouraging. 

I'm sending good thoughts your way. I know this is not easy for you.


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## wolfsnaps88 (Jan 2, 2012)

You are a good mommy. You are doing all you possibly can. I am sorry your Poor Tuck has to go through this. I am sorry you do too. Can he live a semi normal life and have quality in it? 

It is nice to hear a vet agreeing with raw.


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## Donna Little (May 31, 2011)

I'm sure this is much harder on you than it is on Tucker. You know, he probably doesn't know anything is wrong. You're a great mom to him so just keep doing what you're doing and he'll be a happy guy and that's what matters most. 
Sending good vibes your way for a happy healthy future for your boy!


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## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

And, don't get too disheartened, although I would be despondent if I were you too. You know, in all probablity they may come out with a new medication in the foreseeable future that could suit Tuck.
You really have gone above and beyond for your pup, he truly is so lucky to have you as his owner, most people in this world wouldn't bother. Knowing exactly what is going on and what the likely future outcome is, is the absolute best way you can help Tucker. 
Hang in there, you've still got him for a good few years yet to come. 
I'm sorry, I hope the new med's make a huge difference.


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## tuckersmom20 (Dec 12, 2010)

Thanks everyone...

I'm sure tuck knows no different, other than everyone once in a while he has a bad night.
Im trying not to get too down about it, and in all honesty...it doesn't change much.
He will still have seizures, I'll always have to be careful with him...but he can still be tuck.

When I add his new med in....it will not be pretty.
I expect the same as when we started pheno... The sleeping up to 20 hours a day, the crying and whining...
And the worst of all of them.... The falling over.
When we started pheno, I lived in my old house...it had stairs.
One morning I woke up and he was walking like a drunk person, and before I could stop him from going down the stairs....he went.
He fell head over heels..down two flights. I honestly thought he would break something.
From then he couldn't run for a ball for two weeks. The ataxia was that bad.

Neuro said he can continue dock dogs, and can get into any sport we want.

So he'll be a normal dog....with epilepsy.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Those are the side effects of the new medication? Oh dear.


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

I don't know all about the type of epilepsy he has but there have been some studies of folic acid and seizures and too much folic acid can be causing seizures to come more rapidly or more often. Liver is really high in folic acids as are some other meats. I will look for the study again but it is something you may want to discuss with your vet as she is so agreeable and maybe modify his diet to lower his folic acid intake. They talk about the folic acid under the Vitamin B category but the article and website may have some good stuff for you to read. The Role of a Natural Healthy Diet in the Management of Canine Epilepsy  Glad you found out some answers and have a great vet.


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## tuckersmom20 (Dec 12, 2010)

Those side effects last up to 5 weeks.

It all happens in the beginning when his body is trying to get the med to settle in his system.
Once the med levels out...he becomes a normal dog again.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

At least your new place doesn't have two stories - maybe you could get baby gates or something to protect him from falling.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

tuckersmom20 said:


> Those side effects last up to 5 weeks.
> 
> It all happens in the beginning when his body is trying to get the med to settle in his system.
> Once the med levels out...he becomes a normal dog again.


would they let you start out with half doses and build him up? to avoid some of the beginning side effects?


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## Makovach (Jan 24, 2012)

Poor Boy, i hope these meds work better than the pheno and the change isnt too much for him.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

This news sucks.

On the other hand, now you know it is not a tumour. 

And, knowing what it is means you can now fight the fear of it so you can best handle it for you and the tucker.


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## tuckersmom20 (Dec 12, 2010)

Sorry i've been away...
Been buys here, and seeing someone new... so trying to split time between my boys and the new guy 

The issue with AED meds, they all have the side effects in the beginning. 
They all create horrible side effects where the dog is like another dog... like you're going to lose them.
I will be honest, when Tuck started Pheno i begged my vet to do something to make him better... to stop the side effects. Anything so i could have Tuck back.
But he told me to be strong and wait it out...it will get better....Tuck will come back.
By week 4, daily i was seeing improvement... he was able to run in the yard again without face planting and giving this look like.. "mommy why can't i run..why can't i just have fun?"
Then... he was able to climb stairs and go down them... and not until week 5 did we start dock dogs again.

On the note of Dock Dogs....this will put a serious hinder on our season.

The season starts May 5th, and the meds will be here by then...meaning we miss 1 regional event and 2 national event.
I was looking forward to the national events so we could go to the championships... but Tuck's health is more important.
If anyone knows anything about dock dogs... we have 2 legs towards a junior national title... we only need 3 more legs for a national title.
The next national events are in June.. in Ottawa...about 4 hours away...where as May's nationals were 45 mins away.
But... like i said, Tuck is more important and if this year we aren't supposed to be active then so be it.

On top of this all.... Tuck is dealing with a torn dew claw.

Last sunday he tore his dew claw right to the quick and then some. He did it while chasing the cat. I brought him in and laid him down not knowing his dew claw was gone.
Came back 5 mins later... there is blood everywhere. 
I start checking ears, legs...eyes.. you name it. Then i see it.... 3/4 of his dew claw is hanging there.

Let me tell you....
My baby is the easiest boy to do first aid on. 
I brought him to the bathroom, laid him on the bath mat on his side...and told him "mommy needs to fix you, please work with me"
He laid there, even when i pulled the broken dew claw off him...he never moved, never cried. He's one brave soul.
I fixed him up and a few days later we were off to the vet....

The vet tech went to take his bandage off... she is just beaming..she says " my god, this is like we did it..most owners come in with toilet paper wrapped on their wounds."
I said " Tuck likes to hurt himself, so i have a lot of practice..and i have a bunch of vet tech friends and a ton of dog friends...i learn as i go"
She was impressed...i love that.

So we're day 7 into torn dew claw....and its not as red, still bleeds a lil.... and doesn't seem much is growing.
He's on antibiotics to make sure it doesn't get angry.
They sent me home with metacam for him...i gave him one dose and he started drooling and very lethargic....i decided, no more.
After researching, metacam and phono do not go well together.

Sorry for such a long reply.... just a lot to fill everyone in about.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

I'm sorry to hear about this....one thing is for certain, Tucker is so very lucky to have such a wonderful, devoted dog mom watchin' out for him!


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## tuckersmom20 (Dec 12, 2010)

Thanks natalie 

I'm trying my hardest to make sure he gets everything he needs.
Yesterday he was very quiet...I'm not sure what's going on. All he wanted to do was sleep, but if he heard a wrapper from food...he was awake in an instant and ready to devour something.
This morning he was ok..ate his Turkey neck like a champ as usual...


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## tuckersmom20 (Dec 12, 2010)

I also forgot to add...

Tuck will see his regular vet every 6 months for med level check and liver check too..

And yearly he'll see his wonderful Neuro for a complete cbc.

She also wants to see him after he's been on the zoni and he's had his first seizure on it, to talk about the time In between seizures (weeks), how the symptoms were and if they are less severe compared to when he was on pheno.

Zoni is easier on the liver so I'm hoping to God that it is the one thatl work for him.


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