# Tripe



## whiteleo

It's funny, your argument with RFD about Vit. C and how it works for you is kinda like my argument about tripe and how it works for my dogs. It's really kinda ironic.....


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## jdatwood

whiteleo said:


> It's funny, your argument with RFD about Vit. C and how it works for you is kinda like my argument about tripe and how it works for my dogs. It's really kinda ironic.....


Hardly 

Akasha's puppy warts got increasingly worse over the course of a couple of months. They showed 0 sign of letting up. The only got worse and started going into her throat.

Within 2 days of giving Vit C they started clearing up and within the week they were completely gone

Can you give a testimonial about tripe that come close? I doubt it. If so I'd REALLY LOVE to hear what tripe does for your dogs


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## whiteleo

I wasn't saying anything negative about your argument, why the pissed off post?


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## whiteleo

I have to say you really have taken me aback by your post, I find it ironic that danemama and corgipaws are arguing about something they believe to be true and working to RFD who is very pig headed and close minded.
I also believe he is close minded to the fact that tripe is and does a dog many benefits by adding to a raw diet, just because he choses not to feed it himself does not mean it isn't a good thing.
And shame on you Jon for attacking me when it wasn't warranted.


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## jdatwood

whiteleo said:


> I wasn't saying anything negative about your argument, why the pissed off post?


Not pissed off....

Keep in mind that I side with RFD and many others about tripe. It's just another food source. (please bring me something if you feel it's more than that)

We have evidence from multiple people that Vit C helps clear up puppy warts

There's 0 evidence that tripe is anything but another food source

Just want to clear that up :wink:



whiteleo said:


> And shame on you Jon for attacking me when it wasn't warranted.


This was FAR from an attack. 

And please don't even go there. Aside from RFD I think I've been the brunt of the most unwarranted attacks on this forum.


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## whiteleo

It may be another food source but the dogs definitely don't need to eat grass like before and my female who has the luxating patella, along with the tripe/trach-full of guclosimine and swim therapy once a week hasn't luxated since last Aug. I really don't think it's a coincidence since she plays just as hard as before with the dogs.


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## CorgiPaws

Let's keep it friendly. And free of name calling, it's really not necessary. 
And perhaps even on topic! lol.
If you'd like to debate tripe... again... take it to the raw section.


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## DaneMama

whiteleo said:


> And shame on you Jon for attacking me when it wasn't warranted.


I see no attack but rather a "please tell me the benefits or case studies for doing this?" An attack would have been calling you a name or being outright disrespectful to you directly.

The reason why I don't feed green tripe is that I personally don't see the need. And I don't want to deal with the mess and the cost.


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## jdatwood

Do you feed it? If so, why?

I don't feed it. I think it's overpriced for what it is. There's lots of other food sources I'd rather spend my $$ on.


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## CorgiPaws

jdatwood said:


> Do you feed it? If so, why?
> 
> I don't feed it. I think it's overpriced for what it is. There's lots of other food sources I'd rather spend my $$ on.


I don't feed it because I would rather put my cash elsewhere, like buying beef or goat muscle meat, which is more species appropriate. Tripe is more expensive than it's worth, in my opinion. 

That being said, if some were just given to me, I wouldn't hesitate to feed it. I also don't see anything particularly *wrong* with feeding it. I just don't think it's the crazy miracle worker that they're made out to be, but I think if you're feeding it with good results, you don't mind spending the cash, and you're comfortable with it... who am I to tell you not to?


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## whiteleo

I'll post later, dog swim therapy class.


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## jdatwood

CorgiPaws said:


> That being said, if some were just given to me, I wouldn't hesitate to feed it. I also don't see anything particularly *wrong* with feeding it. I just don't think it's the crazy miricle worker that they're made out to be, but I think if you're feeding it with good results, you don't mind spending the cash, and you're comfortable with it... who am I to tell you not to?


I'd feed it if I got it for free

Will I ever seek it out to feed? No

I agree Linsey, I don't see how it's the miracle food some people believe it to be. All I ever hear is "my dog does great on it" or "it works great for my dog". 

All fine but how does your dog do on a balanced raw diet without it?


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## CorgiPaws

jdatwood said:


> I agree Linsey, I don't see how it's the miracle food some people believe it to be. All I ever hear is "my dog does great on it" or "it works great for my dog".
> 
> All fine but how does your dog do on a balanced raw diet without it?


I think that the argument used in favor of tripe is a lot like the arguments used for cheap kibbles. "My dog does great on it." 

I'm not saying that tripe is awful- by any means. Nor am I comparing its quality to cheap kibble. I'm just saying that I don't think it's necessary, and that the arguments in favor of it seem to be weak. I just don't see the miracles, so I leave it out... mostly because it makes sense to me.


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## whiteleo

So what do you think is expensive? I pay $1.60-1.75 a lb and get it in a 40 lb case, I paid $1.40 a lb for the best looking beef from our group I've seen in a long time, now it's gone up to a $1.60 a lb, $2.00 for llama, I guess it's all what your willing to spend on your dogs cause remember when you were feeding a quality kibble how much were you spending a lb? I don't think you can say a negative thing about tripe until you have fed it for 3-4 months ,so I don't want to hear any more of this crap until you have honest to goodness tried it for yourself and not just heresay!


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## DaneMama

whiteleo said:


> So what do you think is expensive? I pay $1.60-1.75 a lb and get it in a 40 lb case, I paid $1.40 a lb for the best looking beef from our group I've seen in a long time, now it's gone up to a $1.60 a lb, $2.00 for llama, I guess it's all what your willing to spend on your dogs cause remember when you were feeding a quality kibble how much were you spending a lb? I don't think you can say a negative thing about tripe until you have fed it for 3-4 months ,so I don't want to hear any more of this crap until you have honest to goodness tried it for yourself and not just heresay!


But what are some of the noticeable changes you have seen in your dogs that you KNOW for certain came from the tripe and only the tripe?

Just like with switching to raw in the first place...I need to hear why it is that I *should* try tripe? Does that make sense?

And I really don't think its how much I am willing to spend on my dogs...its how much I can afford to give to my dogs. Those are two completely different things. When I was feeding quality kibble I didn't have near this many dogs to feed, and yes it was pricey and now I can afford to do a lot more for them in other ways.


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## jdatwood

whiteleo said:


> So what do you think is expensive? I pay $1.60-1.75 a lb and get it in a 40 lb case, I paid $1.40 a lb for the best looking beef from our group I've seen in a long time, now it's gone up to a $1.60 a lb, $2.00 for llama,


The ONLY meat we pay over $1 for is game meat. Even beef heart only runs us ~$0.80/lb

Why would I pay double that for partially digested weeds & grass?



whiteleo said:


> I guess it's all what your willing to spend on your dogs cause remember when you were feeding a quality kibble how much were you spending a lb?


I've never fed kibble. I've always fed a balanced PMR diet



whiteleo said:


> I don't think you can say a negative thing about tripe until you have fed it for 3-4 months ,so I don't want to hear any more of this crap until you have honest to goodness tried it for yourself and not just heresay!


I haven't said anything negative about it. I have simply stated I don't believe it's the miracle food some people do.

Please tell me what's so good about it?

What benefits are you seeing from feeding it at such a high cost?

Have you fed a BALANCED PMR diet without it and seen different results? If so, what changed?

I could add dirt to my dogs diet and say "unless you've fed it for 3-4 months, don't knock it".... doesn't really prove anything to me. Give me something concrete, something tangible.


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## CorgiPaws

whiteleo said:


> So what do you think is expensive? I pay $1.60-1.75 a lb and get it in a 40 lb case, I paid $1.40 a lb for the best looking beef from our group I've seen in a long time


It's expensive for what you get. I would pay that for beef. I would pay that for goat. Heck, I'd pay that for llama. I would NOT pay that for partially digested grass and weeds. No one said it's the most awful thing ever, we just said that for the money, it's not worth it, because feeding a balanced raw diet, we have no need for said miracle worker. 



whiteleo said:


> I guess it's all what your willing to spend on your dogs


Um, actually it has nothing to do with that we're willing to spend on our dogs and statements like this imply that you're willing to do more for your dogs than we are ours, and I find that quite rude to be honest. I do not feed tripe because I see no need for it, and therefore prefer to put my money elsewhere. If I saw a need for it, I would absolutely have no problem including it._ Because I am willing to pay for superior nutrition for my pets- I just don't feel tripe falls in that category._ And quite frankly, you have yet to actually give me a reason to think otherwise. 



whiteleo said:


> I don't think you can say a negative thing about tripe until you have fed it for 3-4 months


I won't be feeding tripe until I can see a positive reason to do so. Again, NO ONE is saying it's a bad thing to feed, just unnecessary. HUGE difference, so I don't see why you're getting so defensive over it. 



whiteleo said:


> so I don't want to hear any more of this crap until you have honest to goodness tried it for yourself and not just heresay!


That crap is my opinion, which I am entitled to. Dogs have NO NUTRITIONAL NEED for grass- partially digested or otherwise. That is enough for me to know that tripe is not a necessary part of a proper diet for a carnivore. 
I have honest to goodness fed a properly balanced raw diet free of tripe and have been satistied with the results. That gives me just as much of a right as YOU to discuss tripe and if it's called for or not. We can agree to disagree, I'm sure, but don't tell me I have no room to talk. :wink:


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## jdatwood

Here's one reason I think it's not necessary and not a "miracle food"



> "Wolves usually tear into the body cavity of large prey and...consume the larger internal organs, such as lungs, heart, and liver. *The large rumen [, which is one of the main stomach chambers in large ruminant herbivores,]...is usually punctured during removal and its contents spilled*. *The vegetation in the intestinal tract is of no interest to the wolves*, but the stomach lining and intestinal wall are consumed, and their contents further strewn about the kill site." (pg.123, emphasis added)
> 
> "To grow and maintain their own bodies, wolves need to ingest all the major parts of their herbivorous prey,* except the plants in the digestive system.*" (pg.124, emphasis added).
> 
> *These quotes are taken from chapter 4, The Wolf as a Carnivore*.





> "The wolf's diet consists mostly of muscle meat and fatty tissue from various animals. Heart, lung, liver, and other internal organs are eaten. Bones are crushed to get at the marrow, and bone fragments are eaten as well. Even hair and skin are sometimes consumed. *The only part consistently ignored is the stomach and its contents*. Although some vegetable matter is taken separately, particularly berries, Canis lupus doesn't seem to digest them very well."
> 
> *This quote can be found on the Hunting and Meals page at Kerwood Wildlife Education Center.*
> http://www.kerwoodwildlife.com/HUNTING&MEALTIME.htm





> When wolves catch and kill a large mammal, they will gorge and then rest while the food is being rapidly digested. *They will generally consume all but the hide, some of the large bones and skull and the rumen (stomach contents of ungulates)* of their prey
> International Wolf Center Learn - Frequently Asked Questions about Wolves



They'd eat it naturally if it was something they'd benefit from


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## luvMyBRT

This makes me think back to those pictures you took Natalie (I think it was you...??) of that deer kill where everything was gone EXCEPT the stomach, intestines and one leg bone. Does anyone else remember those pictures? :wink:


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## jdatwood

saraj2878 said:


> This makes me think back to those pictures you took Natalie (I think it was you...??) of that deer kill where everything was gone EXCEPT the stomach, intestines and one leg bone. Does anyone else remember those pictures? :wink:


That would be Jem (aka Amy) :wink:
http://dogfoodchat.com/forum/pictures/2200-raw-feeding-its-finest-caution-graphic-photos.html


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## luvMyBRT

Opps...sorry. :redface:
Still, those photos prove a point. :biggrin:


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## jdatwood

saraj2878 said:


> Opps...sorry. :redface:


Don't be :wink:



saraj2878 said:


> Still, those photos prove a point. :biggrin:


I think they do :biggrin:


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## whiteleo

Grass is not left in the tripe #1, and tell me why our dogs feel the need to eat grass?

Anyways, I don't have the stomach for this argument today, I'm losing 20 co-workers due to budget cuts and a tax vote that didn't pass last nite so I'm very sad today....:frown:


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## JayJayisme

All of our collective "knowledge" on canine nutrition doesn't amount to much more than educated guesses. As we've discussed before, there is very little actual science behind our knowledge and understanding of how and what we feed our dogs. Granted, much of it is pretty intuitive. I mean, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that a canine is going to do well on meat, right?

All that being said, I think that while it may be correct to say that "dogs have no nutritional need for grass", perhaps they have SOME biological need for it other than nutrition and perhaps green tripe efficiently fills that need in some dogs. We all know that many dogs eat grass, some more than others, but nobody REALLY knows why. Maybe it's for the same reason humans will sit down and eat a bowl of high-fiber cereal. It's not so much for the nutrition but for other biological needs.

I'm going to keep an open mind on this green tripe thing. I don't presently feed it to my dogs for the same reason many others don't, the cost. But it's an interesting comment whiteleo made stating that "the dogs definitely don't need to eat grass like before". If you look at this issue simply based on that, it seems like there may be something to green tripe. What? I don't know. But something.

My female has been eating a lot more grass since she's been on PMR. She doesn't do it to induce vomiting and, predictably, it passes through her pretty much the way it went in. I've been wondering a bit about the whole grass thing lately because eating it has become a daily thing for her, which she only did occasionally and to induce vomiting when she was on kibble. Maybe for people who don't have grazing dogs, green tripe won't make a hill of beans difference. But for those of us whose dogs seem to need grass, perhaps this is the ticket. Just like people, every dog is a little different. 

As a raw feeder, I find this topic interesting and worth exploring more. I encourage everyone to keep an open mind instead of arguing about who is right based on nothing more than that limited anecdotal knowledge we all have. Nutrition can be a complicated subject and sometime in our effort to simplify it, nuances that may be important to our dogs health can get lost in the process.


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## RawFedDogs

JayJayisme said:


> All that being said, I think that while it may be correct to say that "dogs have no nutritional need for grass", perhaps they have SOME biological need for it other than nutrition and perhaps green tripe efficiently fills that need in some dogs. We all know that many dogs eat grass, some more than others, but nobody REALLY knows why. Maybe it's for the same reason humans will sit down and eat a bowl of high-fiber cereal. It's not so much for the nutrition but for other biological needs.


My feeling is that if there were ANY need for it, wild wolves/dogs would eat it from their kill and they don't. I do know, however, from reports from people who do feed it that their dogs love it.



> My female has been eating a lot more grass since she's been on PMR. She doesn't do it to induce vomiting and, predictably, it passes through her pretty much the way it went in.


Does it come out twisted into a neat little rope like it does when my dogs eat it? :smile: My dogs seem to eat more this time of year when the grass is young and tender. Other times of the year, they hardly touch it and usually throw up immediately if they do.


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## JayJayisme

RawFedDogs said:


> My feeling is that if there were ANY need for it, wild wolves/dogs would eat it from their kill and they don't. I do know, however, from reports from people who do feed it that their dogs love it.


Well I would say that if a dog eats grass on a regular basis, then stops doing that when fed green tripe like whiteleo described, the dog is telling you something.



RawFedDogs said:


> Does it come out twisted into a neat little rope like it does when my dogs eat it? :smile: My dogs seem to eat more this time of year when the grass is young and tender. Other times of the year, they hardly touch it and usually throw up immediately if they do.


Yep, a tidy little grass/poop rope. :biggrin:

For my female, the amount she eats doesn't seem to be seasonal. During the winter we didn't have much grass in our yard so she saved her grazing for our walks in the park next door where there is a better selection. But now that spring is here and we have a little more grass in their little yard, she eats at home now. Since she's taken an interest in it, I also haven't been cutting it down as often so she has an ample supply. 

The only contrast I can clearly see is that she eats it a lot more now than when she was on kibble. Coincidence? Perhaps. But we really don't know, do we?


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## whiteleo

Whose feeding canned tripe? And stop with the bashing of tripe, I'm so tired of this sh*t it's not like it 's vegetables, just leave it! Actually it's probably why so many people leave this site after awhile because of the closed mindedness of the group.


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## jdatwood

whiteleo said:


> Whose feeding canned tripe? And stop with the bashing of tripe, I'm so tired of this sh*t it's not like it 's vegetables, just leave it!


Excuse me? I have every right to recommend someone not feed it just as you have a right to recommend it.

I haven't seen ANY reason YET to spend the $$ on it for my dogs.

I've asked over and over WHY I should feed it and the only response I can ever get from anyone is "my dogs do great on it" (not sure what that means even) and "my dogs stopped eating grass when I fed it" 

I don't feel that it's the "magical" food that some people do. I think it's entirely overpriced for what you're getting.


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## whiteleo

Well, lets see, dogs coat are much shinier and softer now than when I was only feeding a meat bones and organs, no more grass eating and tons more stanima, Cayenne hasn't luxated her patella since she's been eating the tripe trachea twice a week along with her swim therapy, and tomorrow I'm picking up as much FRESH lamb tripe as I want from the lambs that our group had buthchered and I don't have to pay a thing for it, so get OFF MY BACK, and RFD I'd like to see some pictures of your dogs to see how healthy they are!


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## DaneMama

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions. Closed minded or not everyone must be treated with respect. Like we've come to realize we must agree to disagree on the tripe issue, let's just leave it at that. Let's all just let the OP come to their own conclusion on whether or not to feed it, based on what BOTH sides have to say about it.


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## whiteleo

But what I really want to know is when ranmiller says she feeds it, no one bats an eye, maybe thats why we don't hear from her anymore!


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## jdatwood

whiteleo said:


> maybe thats why we don't hear from her anymore!


 methinks she's busy with the house she just bought

You need to stop thinking that you're being picked on. You're not. You just happen to be the most outspoken person that feeds tripe.

Those of us that don't haven't found a good reason to feed it yet


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## whiteleo

Thats because you haven't tried it, how can you speak against something you've never tried, thats like the pot calling the kettle black in my book.


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## jdatwood

whiteleo said:


> Thats because you haven't tried it, how can you speak against something you've never tried, thats like the pot calling the kettle black in my book.


I've never fed my dogs kibble.... but I can advise people against feeding it.

Why should I try something when I haven't found a compelling reason to do so?

I started a thread about tripe weeks ago and gave you and others an opportunity to explain why we should consider tripe. I'm still waiting...

At this point I stand by my previous post. I won't feed tripe because I don't see a need for it and I would prefer to spend the $$ on a better quality meat source like game meat.


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## whiteleo

So your saying I don't feed game meat along with all this, my dogs have more variety probably then anyone on this board, including --- They get llama, lamb, beef, venison ostrich, moose, and all the normal stuff chicken, pork, fish organs all hormone and antibiotic free meat cause I think it will eventually kill all of us. So your saying you can't find it in your heart to try something that might help with your dogs discomfort of HD and just see if it might help alittle.


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## jdatwood

whiteleo said:


> So your saying I don't feed game meat along with all this


No, I didn't say that. I said that I personally would rather spend the $$ on something NOT tripe



whiteleo said:


> So your saying you can't find it in your heart to try something that might help with your dogs discomfort of HD and just see if it might help alittle.


I'm saying that I don't believe in the magical healing properties of tripe. 

If you'd like to continue this discussion I ask that you take it to the tripe thread that was created for this purpose


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## JayJayisme

jdatwood said:


> Why should I try something when I haven't found a compelling reason to do so?


I understand what you are saying from a pure logic POV Jon, but that is the same argument countless kibble feeders use to dismiss us raw feeders so I think all of us in this raw community should keep an open mind about things like this. 

At the end of the day, raw green tripe is just as much an appropriate food as any other raw meat source so those of us who don't feed it shouldn't be so quick to dismiss it the way we get dismissed by the kibble feeders. Every dog is different. Some may exhibit obvious benefits from green tripe as whiteleo stated. Others may not. Some may like green tripe, some may not. Same goes for raw feeding. Some dogs do really well on it and the difference is obvious. In some, the improvement is not so obvious. 

Does green tripe have "magical healing properties"? Probably not. But do you know that it doesn't for sure? If your dog has no ailments, how would you ever know? How many kibble feeders have dismissed raw with the same argument? I mean, we all have some elder in our families who smoked 8 packs of cigarettes a day and ate bacon every morning for breakfast and lived to be 100, right? (Well, you know what I mean.) Every creature is a little different and while raw is great for any dog, it's much more essential to some more than others. You can *probably *say the same thing about green tripe.

Everything we raw feeders believe in is pretty much based on anecdotal evidence. There are no valid studies to support it, only nature and evolution and a few scientific facts sprinkled throughout, yet we have all seen the benefits of feeding raw to our dogs. If *one of our own* has seen a benefit from feeding green tripe, that's great and they should be encouraged to continue even though other dogs may not see the same benefits and all owners may not be able to afford it. It's not like whiteleo said, "I'm a raw feeder but I also feed a can of Alpo once a week because it makes their coat shiny." We would all find that outrageous. But we _*are*_ talking about raw animal parts here, right?

Instead of arguing amongst ourselves, we should really be looking over the "wall" and working together to convince kibble feeders of the benefits of raw, whether that includes green tripe or not. You can always say something like, "Some dogs do well on, and like green tripe and it can be a part of the PRM diet if you wish. But it can be expensive and your mileage may vary." (or something to that effect). We don't have to automatically dismiss green tripe if it's a legitimate raw animal part. We should be focused on evangelizing the PRM diet with kibble feeders, not arguing over insignificant details of the raw diet that can't be proven one way or the other.

Just my 2 cents.

Jay


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## jdatwood

I never was trying to argue against tripe. I responded to the other thread simply stating that I would personally rather spend the $$ on something besides tripe.

Could it help? Possibly...

So could buying other obscure meats that the dogs wouldn't normally get

I haven't completely removed tripe as a possibility, I just haven't found a reason to feed it. I do have an open mind about it, hence why I started this discussion in the first place

BTW, I'm picking up a whole Llama on Thursday that we had butchered. It'll make WhiteLeo happy to know that we're taking the tripe along with all of the other meat, bones & organs. I suppose that'll be our first introduction to tripe... :wink:


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## Ania's Mommy

As usual, very well said, Jay. This is me thanking you twice. :wink: 

I was actually thinking that same thing today (yes, I think about DFC even when I'm NOT here!), but you summed it up better than I would have.

Richelle


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## littlebiscuit

Ya know whats funny? When I joined I thought this was a support group for people like me who were interested in feeding raw and needed guidance. As well as those who were already feeding raw and STILL learning. I doubt anyone on this board is an "expert" on raw feeding because I dont feel as though a large enough body of research even exists on this topic to justify a person as an "expert". All that being said, I have seen a lot of close minded statements on this board and I just joined yesterday. I must say that I am quite disappointed. With the exception of JayJayisme, this person really has there stuff together, so whoever you are thank you for the harmony you bring to the board. I mean we are all supposed to be in this thing together, right?


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## jdatwood

Ania's Mommy said:


> As usual, very well said, Jay. This is me thanking you twice. :wink:


I wish I could put my thoughts together as well as Jay does... :frown:


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## Ania's Mommy

jdatwood said:


> I wish I could put my thoughts together as well as Jay does... :frown:


Don't we all! But you do very well in your own Jdatwood way! :wink:


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## whiteleo

Well, it's been an interesting thread no doubt and jay definitely has a way of putting everything into perspective so "thank you" 
So, yesterday I went south to pick up fresh lamb tripe/sheep heads as part of the delivery train, did alittle shopping too! Good thing I brought a ice chest for mine as it was pretty warm out and that is some stinky, nasty stuff that hasn't been cleaned yet
I got home and immediately opened the bags to get them out and clean them outside with the gardenhose, poop, poop and more poop, smell, smell and more smell! Dogs were going crazy excited. One of the tripes still had some intestines attached and had to rip those off and something that I think was a lung, but not sure, should of fed it to the dogs anyway! 
I love buying my tripe already cleaned and ground, that stuff is nasty and people do nothing but get their tripe this way all the time, cause its free. ICK


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## whiteleo

www.FidosFarm.com I kept tryin to get this website right, this is the farm that we get our lamb from, it's a working/dog training farm pretty interesting place.


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## harrkim120

whiteleo said:


> Good thing I brought a ice chest for mine as it was pretty warm out and that is some stinky, nasty stuff that hasn't been cleaned yet I got home and immediately opened the bags to get them out and clean them outside with the gardenhose, poop, poop and more poop, smell, smell and more smell!


Why hose it off? Couldn't you just feed it as is?


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## whiteleo

Oh god no, they had just butchered the lambs yesterday and when you buy tripe that is ground, it is all at least rinsed out from the grasses and crap that is in there, what is the beneficial part of tripe is the enzymes that are trapped in the pockets of the lining, it looks like a really rough cows tongue, and you definitely don't want your dog eating poop!


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## Ania's Mommy

Ohhh! I was always under the impression that the grass that was in tripe was part of it's goodness. That because it was partially digested, it was more bioavailable to the dog. No?


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## whiteleo

Oh, you know I hope I didn't rinse too much but there has to be a "how to" website somewhere on how to clean tripe, and lamb is so much smaller than cow tripe. 
Also, fidos makes sure to use every last bit of the lamb as the carcasses went to "wolfhaven"


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## harrkim120

whiteleo said:


> Oh god no, they had just butchered the lambs yesterday and when you buy tripe that is ground, it is all at least rinsed out from the grasses and crap that is in there, what is the beneficial part of tripe is the enzymes that are trapped in the pockets of the lining, it looks like a really rough cows tongue, and you definitely don't want your dog eating poop!


Haha...there's poop in there? I thought it was just partially digested grass...LOL


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## whiteleo

great website just with some basic info on tripe and they do also suppoet a raw diet and even reference" Tom Lonsdale" is GreenTripe.Com Main Index


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## whiteleo

Guess it wasn't poop, but it sure smelled like it! Members on the board had posted how they would stick it in the bathtub or garbage can to rinse it before feeding, so maybe I really screwed this up! Oh well, I still have lots of beef tripe/trachea in the freezer and this was my first try at doin it myself. I'll have other chances , but not sure if I want to! LOL


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## jdatwood

whiteleo said:


> great website just with some basic info on tripe and they do also suppoet a raw diet and even reference" Tom Lonsdale" is GreenTripe.Com Main Index


Yep, looked at their site 3 years ago when I first started feeding raw. I even emailed offering to update their website to make it fully ecommerce but they couldn't be bothered to reply.

Still a good place to read up on tripe


----------



## CorgiPaws

whiteleo said:


> Thats because you haven't tried it, how can you speak against something you've never tried, thats like the pot calling the kettle black in my book.


Geeze, I'm always arriving late these days!
I wouldn't say that anyone speaks "against" tripe, rather Jon isn't speaking FOR it, as he doesn't think it's necessary, but it's been said over and over again by those who have chosen not to feed tripe that it certainly won't do harm!

That being said, I started giving Annie tripe about a month ago, in hopes that it would help with her grass eating. I've given her about half a can per day, and have seen no difference thus far, I'm using Tripett. Whiteleo, should I be doing something differently? Canned is my only available source at the moment. Do I need to give it more time? While I've never considered Tripe "necessary" to a dog's diet I'm remaining open minded that while it may not be dire, perhaps it could help with *some* things. Any input welcome.


----------



## whiteleo

When I was using canned ( still feed Kenzie canned as she won't touch the real stuff, although she loves the smell) Tripett is the best out there, I never fed the beef, I always wanted to feed a different meat source so I fed the lamb and venison versions.
I'm not sure how long it took for the affect to happen but the grass eating got less and less.
And as I look at it now Kenzie definitely likes to go grab some grass when we are out for a run, she's still a picky eater and I'm having to manually shove organs down her throat, not too fun with a bull headed terrier. So I don't know if its a wait and see, or if it truly is because the other dogs are on the real thing.


----------



## wrangler1

CorgiPaws said:


> I don't feed it because I would rather put my cash elsewhere, like buying beef or goat muscle meat, which is more species appropriate. Tripe is more expensive than it's worth, in my opinion.
> 
> That being said, if some were just given to me, I wouldn't hesitate to feed it. I also don't see anything particularly *wrong* with feeding it. I just don't think it's the crazy miracle worker that they're made out to be, but I think if you're feeding it with good results, you don't mind spending the cash, and you're comfortable with it... who am I to tell you not to?



The comment "like buying beef or goat muscle meat" is why most people shouldn't even attempt to feed a raw diet. Muscle meat is the last thing a dog needs, especially puppies. The phosphorous levels in muscle meat are enough over time to cause serious bone problems. Green tripe should be the cornerstone of a raw feeding program.


----------



## Ania's Mommy

wrangler1 said:


> The comment "like buying beef or goat muscle meat" is why most people shouldn't even attempt to feed a raw diet. Muscle meat is the last thing a dog needs, especially puppies. The phosphorous levels in muscle meat are enough over time to cause serious bone problems. Green tripe should be the cornerstone of a raw feeding program.


Huh? Are you suggesting that it is a bad idea to feed a canine ANY muscle meat?

If muscle meat is "the last thing a dog needs", than how is it that so many have thrived on it for so long? Not to mention wolves.


----------



## bdb5853

wrangler1 said:


> The comment "like buying beef or goat muscle meat" is why most people shouldn't even attempt to feed a raw diet. Muscle meat is the last thing a dog needs, especially puppies. The phosphorous levels in muscle meat are enough over time to cause serious bone problems. Green tripe should be the cornerstone of a raw feeding program.


Where did you get this information? Dogs don't need muscle meat? What?


----------



## wrangler1

Wild canines rarely eat muscle meat, rather they eat the internal organs first and almost exclusively. I have seen dozens of elk kills and never do wolves just eat muscle meat. In fact once the internal organs are gone, they tend to leave the kill. Wild cats are different.

Experienced raw feeders almost never use just muscle meat, rather parts like chicken necks & backs, hearts and tripe because the inherent calcium/phosphorous balance.

If you are feeding 100% raw stop feeding muscle meat. The calcium/phosphorous ratio is 1:3 -5. Meat must be combined with bone like chicken necks or backs.

Save your dog and money and use chicken necks & backs, tripe & hearts and liver once a week.

Or just buy Oma's grinds and green tripe. GT is the perfect food, just right of amount of protein, fat, enzymes, bacteria.


----------



## Ania's Mommy

I feel very confident in saying that all raw feeders on this board do not feed exclusively muscle meat, but it DOES make up the majority of the diets that we feed. We all feed mostly meat, some bone and some organ. A good indicator of the over-all ratio I feed is a chicken leg quarter; this particular cut contains mostly meat, some bone, and some organ.

I think we are mostly in agreement.

However, I am not in agreement with your statement about how wild canines feed. It just makes no sense that canines would eat only the organs and leave the muscle meat. In fact, it is almost the exact opposite. Very rarely do they eat the intestines and stomach contents.

Here's my favorite post on the subject: http://dogfoodchat.com/forum/pictures/2200-raw-feeding-its-finest-caution-graphic-photos.html

I also question your advise to "stop feeding muscle meat". What???


----------



## whiteleo

Yeah, I totally don't get your thinking from that post! although I do like the tripe being the ratio it is and knowing that for some time now, I feed tripe twice a week but also for the other benefits too. 

I still think this is "Claybuster"


----------



## Ania's Mommy

whiteleo said:


> I still think this is "Claybuster"


Ya think so? :biggrin:


----------



## RawFedDogs

wrangler1 said:


> Wild canines rarely eat muscle meat, rather they eat the internal organs first and almost exclusively. I have seen dozens of elk kills and never do wolves just eat muscle meat. In fact once the internal organs are gone, they tend to leave the kill. Wild cats are different.


If you don't mind, I had rather follow the scientific research of Dr. David Mech who has studied wild wolves for over 30 years. He has written several books and published many peer reviewed research papers.

From David Mech's Wolves: Behavior, Ecology and Conservation (2003):

_"Wolves usually tear into the body cavity of large prey and...consume the larger internal organs, such as lungs, heart and liver. The large rumen [, which is one of the main stomach chambers in large ruminant herbivores,]...is usually punctured during removal and its contents spilled. The vegetation in the intestinal tract is of no interest to the wolves, but the stomach lining and intestinal wall are consumed, and their contents further strewn about the kill site."_-p123

_"To grow and maintain their own bodies, wolves need to ingest all the major parts of their herbivorous prey, except the plants in the digestive system." _-p124

His research seems to indicate that wild wolves don't eat tripe at all and points out that they eat all the muscle meat.



> Experienced raw feeders almost never use just muscle meat, rather parts like chicken necks & backs, hearts and tripe because the inherent calcium/phosphorous balance.


I think you are expending a lot of unnecessary energy worrying about ca/ph ratio. It's really not all that critical.



> If you are feeding 100% raw stop feeding muscle meat. The calcium/phosphorous ratio is 1:3 -5. Meat must be combined with bone like chicken necks or backs.


Most all animal parts contain bone. I don't think any of us feed nothing but muscle meat. On that point I would agree with you. That would be an unhealthy diet.



> Save your dog and money and use chicken necks & backs, tripe & hearts and liver once a week.


Except for the hearts and liver, there just isn't a lot of nutrition in a diet like that. 



> Or just buy Oma's grinds and green tripe.


Premix "grinds" are little more than raw kibble. More nutritious than kibble but not nearly as good as a prey model raw diet or a RMB diet.



> GT is the perfect food, just right of amount of protein, fat, enzymes, bacteria.


The enzymes and bacteria in tripe is designed to digest grass. Not very useful to our carnivores.

I think you need to do a lot more research on feeding a carnivore a raw diet. You have a lot to learn.


----------



## CorgiPaws

wrangler1 said:


> The comment "like buying beef or goat muscle meat" is why most people shouldn't even attempt to feed a raw diet. Muscle meat is the last thing a dog needs, especially puppies.


Thanks, but I'm pretty darn confident in what I feed my dogs. 
I don't feed just muscle meat, in fact, I feed bone and organs on a daily basis. But, I do feed SOME boneless meals, and I was simply stating that if it came down to spending $2/lb on something, I'd rather it be a red meat that I don't buy a lot of due to price: goat, beef, etc. rather than tripe. 
(I have since this post added tripe to my feeding schedule in hopes of it helping with some grass eating, and it's been a month and I have yet to see any improvement in anything at all, giving it one more month)



wrangler1 said:


> Wild canines rarely eat muscle meat, rather they eat the internal organs first and almost exclusively. I have seen dozens of elk kills and never do wolves just eat muscle meat.


I beg to differ. I have seen kills, and all that's left are the stomach organ, and intestines, and maybe some bones. I think there's even a thread on here showing similar pictures. 
Muscle meat should make up a large part of a raw diet, mostly meat, some bone, and some organs. Roughly 80-10-10, but that's just a starting guideline. I do feed organs daily in the form of liver and kidney. I feed heart (pork or beef) once a week, which I know it's an organ, but rather rich anyway. 




wrangler1 said:


> If you are feeding 100% raw stop feeding muscle meat. The calcium/phosphorous ratio is 1:3 -5. Meat must be combined with bone like chicken necks or backs.


It's pretty safe to say that no raw feeders on this forum are feeding only muscle meat. You took one statement and twisted it into something entirely different, and added unnecessary drama. (claybuster?!) Feeding some boneless meals is entirely safe, and absolutely fine. I feed one bone inclusive meal a day, in the form of chicken leg quarters, a chunk of liver, a chunk of kidney, and then a meal of either pork roast (boneless) lamb breast, turkey, beef brisket (boneless) goat (boneless) or heart. It works just fine. 



wrangler1 said:


> Or just buy Oma's grinds and green tripe. GT is the perfect food, just right of amount of protein, fat, enzymes, bacteria.


Thanks, but I'll pass. :smile:


----------



## DaneMama

The others here have done a wonderful job at a rebuttal to your claims so I wont touch on that. But I will agree that your logic is WAY out of line. You are certainly not the first kibble feeder to tell all of us raw feeders we are doing it wrong 

Wrangler1:

I just want to tell you now that you are really starting off on the WRONG foot here on DFC. 

It would behoove you to first post up an introduction to the group so we can learn a bit more about you, since you claim to know SO much about dog food. Please take advantage of this because you are making it nearly impossible for any of us here to take you seriously. AT LEAST answer questions that people are asking you here instead of evading them because that is probably one of the most irritating things to come across on a debate heavy forum like this.


----------



## wrangler1

Judging by the responses on the thread its safe to say that you all should be feeding a commercial diet rather than experimenting with raw feeding.

I doubt any of you compete, show or breed, so you wouldn't be able to see the shortcomings of what you are doing.

Products like this might save your dog:

Find a good dry like Annamaet, Blackwood or Abady and add some of this.

Raise a Paw for RAW, Tefco, INC.

I am a big proponent of raw feeding but most people dont know anything about it.


----------



## dobesgalore

You can't be serious.  Do some more research.


----------



## DaneMama

wrangler1 said:


> Judging by the responses on the thread its safe to say that you all should be feeding a commercial diet rather than experimenting with raw feeding.
> 
> I doubt any of you compete, show or breed, so you wouldn't be able to see the shortcomings of what you are doing.
> 
> Products like this might save your dog:
> 
> Find a good dry like Annamaet, Blackwood or Abady and add some of this.
> 
> Raise a Paw for RAW, Tefco, INC.
> 
> I am a big proponent of raw feeding but most people dont know anything about it.


Congratulations. You have successfully secured your position of local troll. And in record time! Only took what like ten posts?!? Why you ask?

1. You join up without introducing yourself, so you are just some random person spouting off useless banter. Tell us how and why you feel far superior, knowledgeable and experienced in regards to dog nutrition.

2. You insult, not just me but the majority of the people here who feed raw. And it's just insane that you believe you know more than we do. I mean, get real. You are feeding garbage.

3. You've done an outstanding job at evading the questions that people have asked of you, mainly to prove why you seem to have more "knowledge" than us.

You have lost the respect of most, if not all, members here. I don't see you getting anywhere. Maybe find a forum that is more opt to listen out of ignorance because I can say with complete confidence that none of us here are ignorant like you say we are.

Everyone: please don't feed the trolls, just makes them stay longer and irritate us all :biggrin:


----------



## dobesgalore

danemama08 said:


> Congratulations. You have successfully secured your position of local troll. And in record time! Only took what like ten posts?!? Why you ask?
> 
> 1. You join up without introducing yourself, so you are just some random person spouting off useless banter. Tell us how and why you feel far superior, knowledgeable and experienced in regards to dog nutrition.
> 
> 2. You insult, not just me but the majority of the people here who feed raw. And it's just insane that you believe you know more than we do. I mean, get real. You are feeding garbage.
> 
> 3. You've done an outstanding job at evading the questions that people have asked of you, mainly to prove why you seem to have more "knowledge" than us.
> 
> You have lost the respect of most, if not all, members here. I don't see you getting anywhere. Maybe find a forum that is more opt to listen out of ignorance because I can say with complete confidence that none of us here are ignorant like you say we are.
> 
> Everyone: please don't feed the trolls, just makes them stay longer and irritate us all :biggrin:


GOOOOO NATALIE!!!!!! GET EM!!!:biggrin:


----------



## magicre

wrangler1 said:


> Judging by the responses on the thread its safe to say that you all should be feeding a commercial diet rather than experimenting with raw feeding.
> 
> I doubt any of you compete, show or breed, so you wouldn't be able to see the shortcomings of what you are doing.
> 
> Products like this might save your dog:
> 
> Find a good dry like Annamaet, Blackwood or Abady and add some of this.
> 
> Raise a Paw for RAW, Tefco, INC.
> 
> I am a big proponent of raw feeding but most people dont know anything about it.


i just read your FAQ on your website AND the ingredients for your Brooklyn run dog food site....

COME ON....do you seriously believe any dog needs to eat your version of bologna....

you quote tom lonsdale...you quote rawfed myths...

and yet you sell food that isn't fit for a dog....

i may never have 'seen' a real live kill, but i do watch television and there have been some very close up shots of wolves killing prey...both large and small....

whilst there isn't enough empirical evidence and scientific study that satisfies many skeptics.....common sense says dogs are meat eaters....not just organ eaters...hell, i'm human and i eat meat and organs....including the muscle meat...

the only addition is veggies for me...no one needs starches....

you are dangerous because there are people out there who will believe you....so, in my opinion...and i AM a newbie....i would prefer that you preface your posts on this and other forums with the disclaimer that you're a salesman...first and foremost.


----------



## littleboodog

wrangler1 said:


> The comment "like buying beef or goat muscle meat" is why most people shouldn't even attempt to feed a raw diet. Muscle meat is the last thing a dog needs, especially puppies. The phosphorous levels in muscle meat are enough over time to cause serious bone problems. Green tripe should be the cornerstone of a raw feeding program.



I've just joined and I've been reading and reading, and I very much like what I've read, but this totally confuses me. Based on what I think I know and what you all have written, this cannot be true!


Oh, never mind.
You guys rock!


----------



## DaneMama

littleboodog said:


> I've just joined and I've been reading and reading, and I very much like what I've read, but this totally confuses me. Based on what I think I know and what you all have written, this cannot be true!
> 
> 
> Oh, never mind.
> You guys rock!


This is exactly why I dislike people who post up here on a whim without disclosing any real facts. It confuses people who are here to learn. This is why I peg those who act like trolls so as to get newbies to understand that they must be able to differentiate between someone who knows what they are talking about and one who doesn't. 

Just a few words of advice to anyone else who gets confused here: Listen to the majority rule on advice here because most likely the LONE person telling EVERYONE else they're idiots and ignorant in regards to nutrition must not be trusted. These very few have most likely fallen victim to intense marketing strategies from big industry and thusly are highly confused themselves LOL


----------



## RawFedDogs

littleboodog said:


> Based on what I think I know and what you all have written, this cannot be true!


Give yourself some credit. From this post, I know you know more than you think you do. :smile:


----------



## wrangler1

dobesgalore said:


> You can't be serious.  Do some more research.


If you knew anything about raw feeding, particularly what zoos rely on you would know Tefco. Tefco has been around for years and years making raw products for dogs and zoo carnivores. Luckily you can get them almost anywhere now through a local Omas dealer.

The two products that are excellent and good value are Performance Dog & Meat Eaters. The tripe is also great quality as well. 

They make a good addition to a quality dry food and since they are complete and balanced your dog wont suffer.


----------



## malluver1005

wrangler1 said:


> I doubt any of you compete, show or breed, so you wouldn't be able to see the shortcomings of what you are doing.


Actually, Aspen and I compete in scootering. For more info look at my sig. He has WAY more energy, endurance, stamina than when he was on a commercial diet thank you very much!! And...he looks better than ever...

ETA: He's only been on raw since January 2010.


----------



## dobesgalore

wrangler1 said:


> If you knew anything about raw feeding, particularly what zoos rely on you would know Tefco. Tefco has been around for years and years making raw products for dogs and zoo carnivores. Luckily you can get them almost anywhere now through a local Omas dealer.
> 
> The two products that are excellent and good value are Performance Dog & Meat Eaters. The tripe is also great quality as well.
> 
> They make a good addition to a quality dry food and since they are complete and balanced your dog wont suffer.


I don't rely on zoo based meals. I don't have zoo animals. I can get ALL my raw meat(yes,muscle meat) bones, organs etc.. anywhere groceries are bought also. As well as coops, butchers, hunters........ And that means, um my dogs arn't "suffering".


----------



## wrangler1

dobesgalore said:


> I don't rely on zoo based meals. I don't have zoo animals. I can get ALL my raw meat(yes,muscle meat) bones, organs etc.. anywhere groceries are bought also. As well as coops, butchers, hunters........ And that means, um my dogs arn't "suffering".



Why would you spend more money on an unbalanced diet?


----------



## dobesgalore

wrangler1 said:


> Why would you spend more money on an unbalanced diet?


Why haven't you answred my question from one of the other forums? I guess you missed it in the dry food one so I ask... What is your professional experience in dog nutrition? If you are, you must have a title?


----------



## DaneMama

wrangler1 said:


> Why would you spend more money on an unbalanced diet?


How is it that you know how much dobesgalore spends on raw? Maybe post up prices of this zoo food you mentioned to get an actual comparison? You really assume too much and you know what people say about people who ASSume??



dobesgalore said:


> Why haven't you answred my question from one of the other forums? I guess you missed it in the dry food one so I ask... What is your professional experience in dog nutrition? If you are, you must have a title?


Because wrangler1 is the epitome of an Internet troll. He/she spouts off all types of claims but fails at backing it up, getting to the point and answering any/all questions asked by others. Which tells you that they really don't actually have the answer


----------



## dobesgalore

danemama08 said:


> How is it that you know how much dobesgalore spends on raw? Maybe post up prices of this zoo food you mentioned to get an actual comparison? You really assume too much and you know what people say about people who ASSume??
> 
> 
> 
> Because wrangler1 is the epitome of an Internet troll. He/she spouts off all types of claims but fails at backing it up, getting to the point and answering any/all questions asked by others. Which tells you that they really don't actually have the answer


Yea, considering wrangler1 went offline as soon as I asked that answers my question. I expected that. My point has been made to him/her, so I will no longer "feed the troll"! :biggrin:


----------



## magicre

wrangler1 said:


> If you knew anything about raw feeding, particularly what zoos rely on you would know Tefco. Tefco has been around for years and years making raw products for dogs and zoo carnivores. Luckily you can get them almost anywhere now through a local Omas dealer.
> 
> The two products that are excellent and good value are Performance Dog & Meat Eaters. The tripe is also great quality as well.
> 
> They make a good addition to a quality dry food and since they are complete and balanced your dog wont suffer.


um. not all zoos.

one of the most renowned zoo in the country is the san diego zoo and they feed hamburger (raw) and beef heart to their wolves.

i went to your site. your stuff looks like processed food and hockey pucks.

i'd feed my dogs kibble before feeding that crap. and i will never feed kibble.

why don't you troll somewhere else.

i'm here to learn, not be talked to like i'm an idiot. i researched raw for over a year before making the switch...i may not know the shortcuts....but i know a scam when i see it.


----------



## magicre

this is not just a troll..he's a sales person...LOL......


----------



## wrangler1

magicre said:


> um. not all zoos.
> 
> one of the most renowned zoo in the country is the san diego zoo and they feed hamburger (raw) and beef heart to their wolves.
> 
> i went to your site. your stuff looks like processed food and hockey pucks.
> 
> i'd feed my dogs kibble before feeding that crap. and i will never feed kibble.
> 
> why don't you troll somewhere else.
> 
> i'm here to learn, not be talked to like i'm an idiot. i researched raw for over a year before making the switch...i may not know the shortcuts....but i know a scam when i see it.


Listen you all seem like nice people, just not too bright. There is nothing processed about it, Beef (mostly hearts), green tripe, beef trachea & eggs, but with a balanced vitamin & mineral mix.

What don't you understand? How stupid could you be? It is a raw product sold frozen, duh??


----------



## Ania's Mommy

wrangler1 said:


> Listen you all seem like nice people, just not too bright. There is nothing processed about it, Beef (mostly hearts), green tripe, beef trachea & eggs, but with a balanced vitamin & mineral mix.
> 
> What don't you understand? How stupid could you be? It is a raw product sold frozen, duh??


Pretty darn stupid, I guess. Is there any bone in your magical food?


----------



## JayJayisme

wrangler1 said:


> What don't you understand? How stupid could you be?


Are you kidding me? How ARROGANT can you be? You show up here, obviously to promote a commercial product, and in doing so you insult everyone here who doesn't drink your Kool-Aid, and tell us we're doing it all wrong and are stupid? Seriously?

If you took the time to actually READ this forum and go back through the archived threads, you would know that any form of a B.A.R.F. or ground meat diet is not followed by many here. Most of us feed raw, meaty bones, not ground up whatever. Most of us arrived at that conclusion after massive frustration with trying to get commercial pet foods (kibble or commercial raw) to live up to its expectations, which it didn't. Most of us have had incredible success with raw meaty bones/prey model raw or whatever you want to call it. We believe in this diet protocol for one reason...we've seen how well our dogs do on it compared to everything else we've tried.

Your posts amount to nothing more than SPAM, which is probably about what your precious Tefco crap amounts to as well...Spam (as in Hormel). Take it somewhere else pal.


----------



## magicre

wrangler1 said:


> Listen you all seem like nice people, just not too bright. There is nothing processed about it, Beef (mostly hearts), green tripe, beef trachea & eggs, but with a balanced vitamin & mineral mix.
> 
> What don't you understand? How stupid could you be? It is a raw product sold frozen, duh??


condescension and name calling. nice.

All Natural - This formula was devised by an expert in animal nutrition. The basis of the 'bolognas' are 100% beef meat. There are no entrial or byproducts used, they are 100% natural and there are no preservatives used, so please refrigerate after opening.

this is the description for your beef rolls.

who is the expert that devised the formula?

who is the source for your beef?

i know exactly which farm my beef comes from....

if it says for 'animal consumption only'.....that makes me ask again, what's in it...beef from rendered cows? yum.

oh. and additional ingredients....

Oat Flower, Dry Milk, Sea Salt, Molasses, Flax Seed Oil, Nori, Herring Meal, Blue-Green Algae, Kelp, Garlic


we have oats, which is a starch and accounts for dentition problems in dogs.

we have dry milk which gives dogs and humans no benefit

we have sea salt...well, that should make my dog drink more, because the water content in their pork butt roast wasn't enough.....

we have molasses...yes, sugar...good for both dogs and humans....yummy...so you're the mcdonald's of dog food

flax seed oil...ah yes, the intestinal irritant that dogs so need to move their bowels...

nori....must have nori....all creatures great and small must have nori..seaweed....seaweed does have minerals...but if given in too great a quantity can actually harm the dog...

herring meal....because feeding a real herring is out of the question?

blue-green algae - again, a fine source of minerals....and it is if properly dosed....which means blood work for your dog every month to make sure you are within the very narrow scope of normal levels....because mineral toxicity is well...never talked about in the canine community...we're all too stupid.

and let's add kelp because nori and blue-green algae wasn't enough..

and garlic.....in small amounts, garlic, has some benefits...certainly it gives flavour and there are wonderful health properties for humans....

and yet, the expert who devised this food is un named...and how this formula came about is un named...

and what does this mean?

All Beef is Sampled and Tested for BSE by USDA Veterinary Technician - do they have to eat it? or make sure it doesn't have mad cow?

and you call me stupid? LOL

ps. i'm not nice.

i really enjoy a good debate, but you're just not worth the key strokes...


----------



## magicre

oh. and wait for it...menadione.....

well, aren't we blessed with yet another source of synthetic vitamin k, shortening doggie life spans just like nutro products....yay...

BEEF, BEEF BY PRODUCTS, LIVER, FINELY GROUND BONE, FISH MEAL MEAT AND BONE MEAL (PORK/POULTRY), WHOLE EGG, HOMINY WHEAT MIDDS, CALCIUM CARBONATE, IRON CARBONATE, COPPER SULFATE, COBALT CARBONATE, MANGANOUS OXIDE, ZINC CARBONATE, CALCIUM IODATE, SODIUM SELENITE, VITAMIN A ACETATE, VITAMIN D SUPPLEMENT, DI ALPHA TOCOPHERYL ACETATE, MENADIONE SODIUM BISULFITE COMPLEX (SOURCE OF VITAMIN K), THIAMINE, HYDROCHLORIDE, RIBOFLAVIN, PRYIDOXINE HYDROCHLORIDE, VITAMIN B-12, NIACIN, PANTOTHENIC ACID, BIOTIN, FOLIC ACID.


nummy.


----------



## jdatwood

wrangler1 said:


> Listen you all seem like nice people, just not too bright. There is nothing processed about it, Beef (mostly hearts), green tripe, beef trachea & eggs, but with a balanced vitamin & mineral mix.
> 
> What don't you understand? How stupid could you be? It is a raw product sold frozen, duh??


----------



## dobesgalore

magicre said:


> this is not just a troll..he's a sales person...LOL......


He needs to take his sales pitch elsewhere, cause he won't sell a thing here.


----------



## DaneMama

At this rate he/she will be banned soon. Don't worry.


----------



## luvMyBRT

^^^This was my next question!
How long until you get to ban this troll??


----------



## RawFedDogs

saraj2878 said:


> ^^^This was my next question!
> How long until you get to ban this troll??


I can ban him right now if I want to. :smile: I could've banned him yesterday. I think he is giving us some comic relief. :smile:


----------



## wrangler1

You guys clearly dont know anything about raw feeding. Those three TEFCO products, Green Tripe, Performance Dog & Meat Eaters are raw frozen diets.


The beef rolls are not what I am talking about.

Duh?


----------



## malluver1005

^^^^Oh geez...


----------



## RawFedDogs

wrangler1 said:


> You guys clearly dont know anything about raw feeding. Those three TEFCO products, Green Tripe, Performance Dog & Meat Eaters are raw frozen diets.


No they are not a raw diet. They are premix raw which is nothing more than raw kibble. There are a lot of inappropriate ingredients in this garbage you are pushing. Tripe CAN be PART of a raw diet but certainly not a raw diet in and of itself.

You really need to do some more research instead of relying on the promotional material of these people.

Good luck. :smile:


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## DaneMama

But the fact that he/she confuses people on here makes it NOT at all comical in any way, shape or form...


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## ruckusluvr

RawFedDogs said:


> I can ban him right now if I want to. :smile: I could've banned him yesterday. I think he is giving us some comic relief. :smile:


I am enjoying the comic relief myself 
it has brought excitement to my otherwise boring day


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## RawFedDogs

danemama08 said:


> But the fact that he/she confuses people on here makes it NOT at all comical in any way, shape or form...


They don't stay confused very long.


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## jdatwood

wrangler1 said:


> You guys clearly dont know anything about raw feeding.
> 
> Duh?


Hey n00b, how about you treat everyone with some respect? Respect is something you need to earn in life and especially here. So far you have.... 0 respect based on your callous attitude towards the members.

Make your way over here and post an introduction. Tell us about yourself and why you're so qualified to tell us how ignorant we are.

Introduce yourself - Dog Food Forum

Once we have an idea who you are and why your opinion is law then MAYBE we'll consider having an intelligent discussion with you.

Until that time comes your posts are being ignored by me. 

Ta ta for now


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