# Putting down one of my boxer motivated me to switch to better food



## Boxerdad (Apr 20, 2010)

Hello all,

3 weeks ago, I had to put one of my beautiful boxers down due to lympatic cancer. Putting her down was one of the hardest things to do. Atleast we put her down while she was still happy and somewhat healthy. That lympatic cancer hit fast and hard. My wife and I still have an 7 year old next month boxer. She was in surgery last week for a stage 1 mast cell tumor that was removed from her hind quarter. Vet said she is ok and the cancer did not spread anywhere. Our dogs are our kids....

My wife and I just bought a 10 week old brindle boxer a week ago today. She is adorable and is a hoot!.

Anyways, after putting Abby down from cancer, Libby having a mast cell, and now getting a brand new puppy, Chloe; I started really looking at the dog food we were feeding. We were feeding Pedigree and after looking up this dog food on the internet, I found it was one of the worse dog foods to feed a dog. It made me sad knowing I had been feeding my boxers this crap for so long. I went to Petco today and bough a 30lb bag of Blue Buffalo after reading about all the positives about this food. This stuff is swesome but expensive. It was $49.00 for the 30lb. I know that I will be feeding my dogs less with this food as aposed to the pedigree; and this will off set some of the price because I will not have to be buying dog food as much now.

What is the best place to purchase dog food online. If I can save just $10.00 from ordering online, then it will be worth it IMO. My wife is a full time dental student, and I am a cop; so we are on a budget right now. However, I believe my dogs are worth every penny and I wish I would have been feeding them Blue Buffalo since they were pups. It may have prevented them ever getting cancer.


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

Welcome to the forum.

I am so sorry to hear about your loss, i can only imagine how tough that must be. Boxers hold a special place in my heart, gosh, they're jsut special aren't they?

There is currently a thread about online ordering, I think you might find it useful.
http://dogfoodchat.com/forum/dry-canned-dog-food/2945-quick-review-petfooddirect-heartypet.html

Also, Kirkland brand dog food is a great alternative when money is tight, and really isn't too bad at all. If you have access to a CostCo, I would look into it.


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5 (Feb 11, 2010)

Boxerdad said:


> Hello all,
> 
> 3 weeks ago, I had to put one of my beautiful boxers down due to lympatic cancer. Putting her down was one of the hardest things to do. Atleast we put her down while she was still happy and somewhat healthy. That lympatic cancer hit fast and hard. My wife and I still have an 7 year old next month boxer. She was in surgery last week for a stage 1 mast cell tumor that was removed from her hind quarter. Vet said she is ok and the cancer did not spread anywhere. Our dogs are our kids....
> 
> ...


there are alot better choices then pedigre, that can be purchased with little incovenience, and little change in spending. if yo uare on a budget there is no necessity to buy the number 1 or number 2 foods for 70 dollars when yo ucan get a number 5 food for 40 dollars.

anyways some good foods that should help your dog live longer and happier are...
canidae grain free als i get 30 pounds for 49 dollars after tax but most places charge a lot more.

taste of the wild(high prairie or wetlands)-this is around 30 pounds for 45 dollars after taxes.

kirkland dog food is like 22 dollars for 40 pounds i think?

im sorry about your boxer being put down, chloe sounds adorable hope to see pics.

on a related note i have a question. has anyone ever seen those commercials with iams, and purina dog chow9two of the worst foods around) claiming to add many quality years to your friends lives? they say its scientifically proven. how can they say such _crap (edited by CorgiPaws for foul language_ its pretty disgustin.


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> on a related note i have a question. has anyone ever seen those commercials with iams, and purina dog chow9two of the worst foods around) claiming to add many quality years to your friends lives? they say its scientifically proven. how can they say such _crap (edited by CorgiPaws for foul language_ its pretty disgustin.


Started a new thread on this to respond without hijacking the thread. 
http://dogfoodchat.com/forum/dog-fo...de-dog-food-marketing-material.html#post29601


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## buddy97 (Mar 29, 2010)

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> canidae grain free als i get 30 pounds for 49 dollars after tax but most places charge a lot more.
> 
> taste of the wild(high prairie or wetlands)-this is around 30 pounds for 45 dollars after taxes.
> .


while those are cheaper choices for grain free foods (canidae, at more than 100 cal/cup more the better value, imo), i definitely think they should be avoided for larger breed pups due to calcium content. granted, a boxer is not a large breed, but not a small breed either. im not as familiar with boxers and growth issues as i am with GSD's, but it is something to think about.

otherwise, yes, there are much better foods even at the large chain stores. Blue Buffalo is available at Petsmart. Wellness and Solid Gold are avaialble at Petco. 

again, i know a boxer may not be in the large breed category, but at the gsd site i belong to there are quite a few boxer owners that love the results they have gotten from Wellness Super 5 Large Breed Puppy. and, as suggested, Kirkland is relatively cheap if you have a Costco. another fairly cheap choice is Chicken Soup for the Dog Lovers Soul.

sorry for your loss. dont beat yourself up over what you were feeding. many of us, at some point, didnt know much about what we were feeding our dogs. im sure you gave your girl lots of love and a great life, which is the most important thing. and quite honestly, feeding the most expensive food available may not have prevented the cancer, so it is not worth dwelling on.

finally, thank you for your service to your community and doing a very tough job.....and a future thanks to your wife for causing as little pain possible when drilling the locals teeth.:biggrin:


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## kevin bradley (Aug 9, 2009)

BD,

As Linsey said, I started the thread on online ordering. Check it out...hope you find it useful. 

I'm pretty opinionated on food and have been through a number of brands...Orijen and Acana are held in special regard...with Natura's products #2. Petfooddirect and Heartypet are my only experiences in online ordering. Only issue w/ Hearty was their packaging...no other issues. PFD was perfect in every way. 

Gonna be hard to save $10 on every bag of food...you'll have to load up on deals.


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## goujon (Feb 10, 2010)

I have a boxer and have fed him Blue Buffalo for two years and wouldn't feed anything else. I have access to PetSmart, PetCo and Tractor Supply. The prices at Tractor Supply are slightly lower but they never have sales. PetCo's prices are higher than PetSmart but they have better sales. Register at PetCo.com and PetSmart.com. They periodically send coupons through the mail and by email. They also let you know when they have sales. Sometimes Amazon.com has sales with free shipping. You can get a one-time coupon from Bluebuff.com. You can also get a $5.00 coupon by signing up at Tractor Supply. Have all of your friends and relatives sign up at Blue Buffalo and Tractor Supply and give the coupons to you.


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

If your particular about what your feeding your dogs than you should also be particular about the treats you give them also. 1-2 ingredients is best when dealing with treats, I only buy 1 named ingredient when buying treats for my dogs. Just for general FYI


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## Unosmom (May 3, 2009)

Welcome and sorry to hear about your dogs, unfortunately boxers arent the healthiest of breeds (at least not anymore due to all the inbreeding and BYB dogs). 
Youre definitely on the right track with diet, there are several affordable options besides BB, most which can be found at local feed stores, here are few:

1) Healthwise ($34 for 35 lbs)
Where to Buy Healthy Dog Food, Healthy Cat Food & Healthy Puppy Food Brands – HealthWise Pet Food

2) Canidae ($36 for 35 lbs)
CANIDAE® Pet Foods: Store Locator

3)Taste of the wild ( $43 for 30 lbs -not for dogs under 1)
Taste of the Wild : Dealer Locator

4) Diamond Naturals ($36 for 35 lbs)
Pet Nutrition Retailers for Diamond Pet Foods

5)Kirkland Signature from costco (only available at costco, around $22 for 40 lbs)

6) Chicken Soup for dog lovers soul ($39 for 35 lbs)
Chicken Soup for the Pet Lover's Soul : Dealer Locator

7)Premium Edge
($38 for 35 lbs)
Premium Edge Pet Food | Dealer Locator

8) 4Health - only available at tractor supply ($29 for 35 lbs)

9) Whole Earth Farms ($28 for 35 lbs)( no store locator for this one, but you can ask at feed stores if they carry it)


If I were to reccomend a food, I would go with Healthwise for puppy and Taste of the wild for adult dog.


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## ghostrunner (Mar 24, 2010)

Another option, if there is a Costco nearby, is Nature's Domain, sold exclusively at Costco. I haven't tried it, but there has been some discussion of it on this forum. It is grain free, although a bit high on the carb side. It's main selling point is value. It is certainly several steps above Pedigree, etc.


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## kevin bradley (Aug 9, 2009)

I really think we're doing the OP a disservice by offering up compromised brands of cheaper options. 

Sure, some of the foods mentioned are "ok." I won't debate that...

But he's disclosed the fact that he and his wifes dogs are part of the family...loved beyond measure...and heartbroken at the loss of his Boxer. 

In terms of Cancer, there are some real reasons to go Grain Free...I haven't read ALL the evidence but going to a high protein/grain free food seems very sensible. 

Even on a budget...we've got to encourage the BEST. Especially with someone who clearly indicates his love for his Dogs. In my opinion, he either needs to look into a raw diet or really focus on searching out truly uncompromised foods from Natura and/or Champion....

I do think there are those who will never go to Evo or Orijen...but we've got a real opportunity to influence someone to go w/ the BEST out there.


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## luvMyBRT (Mar 8, 2010)

I've been to Roswell! Had some friends that went to NMMI. :smile:

I too am not sure if Boxers are considered large breed, though they are not small. Hopefully CorgiPaws will chime in with her opinion on the best puppy food for your new girl. Congrats, by the way! :biggrin:

Wellness Large Breed Puppy is a good food, so is Innova Large Breed Puppy. Orijin Large Breed Puppy would be at the top of the list and if price wasn't a factor. 

I live in a small Eastern Oregon town, so finding decent kibble is pretty hard (as well as good meat prices to go raw). I have been able to find Taste Of The Wild. My older GSH Pointer is eating the bison formula right now and she just loves it. I would order on line, but the shipping for me is $20+ dollars PER bag, so that is way, way more than I can afford. However, I do watch for free shipping specials, when I can stock up and save a little money.


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5 (Feb 11, 2010)

kevin bradley said:


> I really think we're doing the OP a disservice by offering up compromised brands of cheaper options.
> 
> Sure, some of the foods mentioned are "ok." I won't debate that...
> 
> ...


price aside id say for a puppy, orijen large breed is the best. i do consider boxers large breeds in general. large breed is from 55-100 pounds.

for an adult, id say orijen red mat, or evo herring is best regardless of price.

with that being said i don't think it is right to try to convince someone on a budget to buy these foods when taste of the wild (wetlands or high prairie) is close enough without making them poor. TOTW is 30 dollars cheaper for 1.4 extra pounds. the difference is negligible. but if he has the cash then go for it but try totw first and see.


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## luvMyBRT (Mar 8, 2010)

kevin bradley said:


> I really think we're doing the OP a disservice by offering up compromised brands of cheaper options.
> 
> Sure, some of the foods mentioned are "ok." I won't debate that...
> 
> ...


I hate to start a debate and don't want to get off topic, but I am a bit offended here.

My dogs are "part of my family", "loved beyond measures", and I WAS heartbroken over the loss of my Rottie to cancer. Because I can't afford to feed my dogs Orijin right now does not mean that they mean any less to me.

I feed the best kibble that I can afford right now. That's not to say that if in the future I won't change to Orijin or RAW if I can afford it. I would LOVE to do that. 

I don't see ANY problem with giving suggestions to ALL acceptable kibbles. Let the owner decide what works best for his dog and his budget. Just because you don't feed your dog Natura or Champion products doesn't mean you care for them and love them any less. :smile:


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## kevin bradley (Aug 9, 2009)

Sara,

Certainly wasn't my intention to offend....if the food you choose is the best you can afford...we all do what we can.

However, I have to be honest is saying that I believe Orijen/Acana/Evo are the best foods available....and by a wide margin. Again, this is only my opinion but I'd be doing a disservice to someone asking the question of what to feed and telling them to feed a Diamond based product ---IF--- they can afford something else. 

This is an important point here....I don't feed Orijen/Acana/Evo simply because it's nice to feed them. I feed them because I truly feel they are superior and will prolong/strengthen the live's of my Dogs.

I'm not touching a debate about loving your dogs less because you don't feed Champion or Natura....hell, I fed Pedigree before I knew what I was doing. I don't want anyone else telling me this, but I'll say it...I was a crappy owner for doing this. Horrible. I still don't forgive myself and wonder many days if I impacted the lives of my guys by doing so.

Someone feeding Chicken Soup, Kirkland, TOTW...admittedly, is a million times ahead of what I was doing with Pedigree. However, as I said...I do feel there are superior options...


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5 (Feb 11, 2010)

kevin bradley said:


> Sara,
> 
> Certainly wasn't my intention to offend....if the food you choose is the best you can afford...we all do what we can.
> 
> ...


you're not a crappy owner for feeding pedigree kevin relax lol. if you didnt know there was anything better out there, and saw no issues with your dogs that would provoke you to search for better options, then you were just another blindsighted fool feeding the advertised foods, that we all at one point thought were the best options. i was never that blind,i alwways knew grocery foods were bad. but when i got Shane i thought nutro was the best.(big step up from grocery foods..but horrible food either way).
and also i didnt think the science diet the humane society gave us, was bad at all..but i know better now.

the two best foods on the market in my eyes are naturas innova evo herring and salmon...and champions orijen regional red. these foods are great for people who are not a budget. i do not believe the difference in quality between these foods and TOTW is as big as the difference in price would suggest. even if the op could afford it, i dont think he should put himself into the poor house when totw will be sufficient for his girls.

his puppy on the other hand,would benefit from orijen. it is the only grain free food that is safe for her. in that case the quality difference is greater than the price difference. but once chloe reaches adulthood, she should have no problems on totw.

plus there is no guarantee that innova evo, nor orijen will be better than any other food for the op's dogs.ive ehard of dogs doing terible on both(more cases with regional red than with herring evo)


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

kevin bradley said:


> I really think we're doing the OP a disservice by offering up compromised brands of cheaper options.
> 
> Sure, some of the foods mentioned are "ok." I won't debate that...
> 
> ...


I personally thing that making recommendations in ALL price ranges will do far more good than to make someone feel terrible for not being able to afford the absolute "top notch" foods (which plenty of dogs don't do good on, anyway) 

Unless you have the OP's bank statements and budget right in front of you, it's not fair to assume that these insanely expensive foods are in the question. I know that the brief time that I used EVO was so expensive, no way I could have fed it to my dogs long term. And NO, that doesn't mean I love my dogs any less than someone who can do it... it means that I don't have unlimited income. 

Also important to note that not all grain free foods are low carb.


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## Boxerdad (Apr 20, 2010)

Ok people,

I have also been looking at other food that our local Tractor Supply Store sell.
What does everybody think of these foods?

4Health or the Diamond food?

I keep hearing everybody talking about the Diamond dog food. I can get the 40lb for $34.99.


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5 (Feb 11, 2010)

Boxerdad said:


> Ok people,
> 
> I have also been looking at other food that our local Tractor Supply Store sell.
> What does everybody think of these foods?
> ...


diamond naturals is alright, but regular diamond is horrible it has chicken by product as the first ingredient. i say go for taste of the wild high prairie or wetlands if you can afford it. its around 45 dollars for 30 pounds! i say if you want dog food to noticeably improve your boxers life go for a grain free food.

ill be honest i find it funny that diamond reccomends the same daily feeding amount as innova. kinda pisses me off, innova doesnt say to feed less...(not just innova but all premium foodss..just know for certain innovas guidelines for feeding food) guess diamond isnt the one trying to steal.


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## buddy97 (Mar 29, 2010)

Boxerdad said:


> Ok people,
> 
> I have also been looking at other food that our local Tractor Supply Store sell.
> What does everybody think of these foods?
> ...


id say diamond natural and 4health are on par with each other. not great but not horrible. i think for about the same prices, the Chicken Soup line or Kirkland (at costco) would be a bit better, or for a little more, Canidae (all still Diamond produced foods, which turns many folks off).

i was talking to some Boxer owners on another board, and they all stay away from the grainless foods (other than orijen) until adulthood due to the calcium levels, much the same as owners of large breed pups do. so, personally i would stay away from grainless foods like TOTW until at least one year.


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5 (Feb 11, 2010)

imo the only food that is good to feed your puppy is orijen large breed puppy.

once your dog gets older however there are a lot of cheap foods that are good as well like totw. if you can afford to feed orijen for the first year its a good start but not necessary as an adult. you can switch to a cheap food like totw as an adult or at 10 months.


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## Boxerdad (Apr 20, 2010)

I've been reading up on the 4 Health chicken & rice. The protein is 26%, which I like.


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## Unosmom (May 3, 2009)

I also second the grain free option for boxers since theres some evidence that cancer cells feed on sugar in grains. The most affordable choice in that case would be Taste of the Wild, its a bit more calorie dense, so you'll probably feed your dog less, which makes the food last longer and help even out the costs in the long run. You can also print $5 off coupon on tractor supply site:
http://offers.e-centives.com/siflo/reg/survey.cfm?s=Yz0xJmY9MSZjdT0xJmJxPTEmdmlkPTExMjAmbz0xODE4Mzk2JnA9MTgxODM5NiZwdD00JmNvPTQ5MiZmd2ViPTEmc2M9NDkyJnJVUkw9JTJGc2lmbG8lMkZwb3N0cmVnaXN0ZXIlMkVjZm0lM0Z2aWQlM0QxMTIwJTI2dCUzRDQlMjZzJTNEMTA0Nzk4MTI3MCUyNmZ3ZWIlM0QxJTI2Y28lM0Q0OTIlMjZzYyUzRDQ5MiUyNmlkJTNENDk5NmVlNjYlMkQ3ZTE5JTJENDY5YiUyRDk2M2IlMkRhOWRlOWY5YzliOTMmcz0xMDQ3OTgxMjcwJmlkPTQ5OTZlZTY2LTdlMTktNDY5Yi05NjNiLWE5ZGU5ZjljOWI5Mw%3D%3D

*As previously mentioned though, this is not suitable for growing large breed pups. 
If this is still cost restrictive, I would go with 4 Health performance, since it seems to have higher meat content of the other ones. Diamond Naturals seems to be very similar to 4 Health, so either one will do.


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> imo the only food that is good to feed your puppy is orijen large breed puppy.
> 
> once your dog gets older however there are a lot of cheap foods that are good as well like totw. if you can afford to feed orijen for the first year its a good start but not necessary as an adult. you can switch to a cheap food like totw as an adult or at 10 months.


Explain??
You tend to give a lot of different suggestions in one thread, and don't really explain any reasoning. It can get quite confusing.


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5 (Feb 11, 2010)

CorgiPaws said:


> Explain??
> You tend to give a lot of different suggestions in one thread, and don't really explain any reasoning. It can get quite confusing.


well isaid in my other post that for an adult dog,the cheaper foods dont have a substantial difference in quality when compared to price...looking at adult apropriate foods.

but for puppies, orijen large breed puppy is light years better than any other puppy food and justifies the price difference. its the only grain free. i said that in another post,but that's my opinion.

i say use orijen large breed puppy if he can afford it, then switch to totw for aduilts.


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## PUNKem733 (Jun 12, 2009)

CorgiPaws said:


> Explain??
> You tend to give a lot of different suggestions in one thread, and don't really explain any reasoning. It can get quite confusing.



This should be interesting. Orijen large breed puppy food is the only grain free large puppy food is the only grain free option is a revelation to me.


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## buddy97 (Mar 29, 2010)

PUNKem733 said:


> This should be interesting. Orijen large breed puppy food is the only grain free large puppy food is the only grain free option is a revelation to me.


are you saying there are other grain free kibbles that have the appropriately low Ca levels (maximum as fed levels) that is essential for large breed puppies?

afaik, Orijen is the only one.

these are just some examples of company positions (all due to their higher Ca levels)

-Natura has diclaimers about EVO being for maintenance only.
-Wellness states the same right on their site regarding Core.
-TOTW reps have sent emails to GSD owners on another board im on recommending not feeding it to large breed pups until 1 yr old.


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## kevin bradley (Aug 9, 2009)

Again, just another OPINION of mine...

If I was going the less expensive route, I'd feed Healthwise by Natura before I'd go with any of the Diamond foods. But, I place almost as much importance in the trustworthiness of the company as much as the ingredient label on the bag. 

There, you have a less expensive option :wink:


Let me say this...as much as it might piss some of you off when I clamour about Orijen or EVO, it pisses me off when people give advice and say...."ahhhh, if you can afford EVO or Orijen, they're fine and dandy but Diamond Naturals is just fine." Personally, I think its disrespectful to 2 companies that make a real effort to be different than the others. I get the financial challenges, especially today....and I actually agree, someone feeding many of the options laid out is doing much better than someone feeding grocery store brands. I just feel that there IS a difference...


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## lilbabyvenus (Mar 3, 2010)

buddy97 said:


> -Natura has diclaimers about EVO being for maintenance only.
> -Wellness states the same right on their site regarding Core.


I'm sorry, I feel really dumb, but what does "for maintenance only" mean with dog food? It sounds familiar, but I just can't place what it means in my head.


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5 (Feb 11, 2010)

PUNKem733 said:


> This should be interesting. Orijen large breed puppy food is the only grain free large puppy food is the only grain free option is a revelation to me.


it is the only grain free option. buddy explained perfectly.


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5 (Feb 11, 2010)

kevin bradley said:


> Again, just another OPINION of mine...
> 
> If I was going the less expensive route, I'd feed Healthwise by Natura before I'd go with any of the Diamond foods. But, I place almost as much importance in the trustworthiness of the company as much as the ingredient label on the bag.
> 
> ...


it is your opinion those are the best...and you're fixated on them....orijen hjas done plenty of shady crap, and i dont have anything bad to say about nastura. i am perfectly fine with diamond.


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## kevin bradley (Aug 9, 2009)

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> it is your opinion those are the best...and you're fixated on them....orijen hjas done plenty of shady crap, and i dont have anything bad to say about nastura. i am perfectly fine with diamond.



RC, in almost EVERY post, I state openly that it is my opinion. 

You need a hug today? You seem rather combative.


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5 (Feb 11, 2010)

kevin bradley said:


> RC, in almost EVERY post, I state openly that it is my opinion.
> 
> You need a hug today? You seem rather combative.


hus are always nice thanks.=p.


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## buddy97 (Mar 29, 2010)

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> it is your opinion those are the best...and you're fixated on them....orijen hjas done plenty of shady crap, and i dont have anything bad to say about nastura. i am perfectly fine with diamond.


can you expand on all the "shady crap" that Orijen has done? as an Orijen feeder, i would like to be aware of anything Champion has done that is dishonest or unethical. (no need to discuss Diamond and their history as that has been discussed and well documented ad nauseum for years).

im not trying to be a smart**s. i may have missed something that they have pulled over the past few years, and i learned long ago that i will never trust ANY dog food manufacturer 100%.


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## kevin bradley (Aug 9, 2009)

buddy97 said:


> can you expand on all the "shady crap" that Orijen has done? as an Orijen feeder, i would like to be aware of anything Champion has done that is dishonest or unethical. (no need to discuss Diamond and their history as that has been discussed and well documented ad nauseum for years).
> 
> im not trying to be a smart**s. i may have missed something that they have pulled over the past few years, and i learned long ago that i will never trust ANY dog food manufacturer 100%.




Buddy,

Let me fix it for you...

I learned long ago that I will never trust any Manufacturer. Period. Take out the Dog Food. 

They are sharks designed to make money. 

I promise you this...Champion is a helluva more ethical than 99% of any company, regardless of industry. Think McDonald's is ETHICAL? How bout KFC? Goldman Sachs? Fannie Mae? Enron?....stop me whenever.


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## buddy97 (Mar 29, 2010)

kevin bradley said:


> I learned long ago that I will never trust any Manufacturer. Period. Take out the Dog Food.
> .


semantics. i dont trust any manufacturer, but some have shown a higher degree of resposibility than others. i just want to know if Champion has pulled anything that should be noted.



lilbabyvenus,

maintenance in that context just refers to an adult dog who is done growing (ie you only seek to maintain his/her current condition)


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5 (Feb 11, 2010)

well buddy, im pretty sure ive noted my concerns with you on orijen, and for you they werent anythig that concerned you which is quite ok. my concerns are the bone issue, and the austrailia issue.
those might not be big issues for you, but idont like them. kind of like how ethoxyquin isnt a huge issue for me, but for you i think it is.

if orijen red meat comes out in my area though i do plan on trying it. in my opinion shane needs a change of protein source, hes been on turky,fish,lamb his whole life, and still has the itchies occasionally.
the two best foods in my eys are evo herring, and orijen red. id rather shane eat red meat than fish, i just think shane would enjoy it more.


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> and the austrailia issue.


JUST for the record, this "issue" was on Austrailia's security's part, and NOT on Champion's... and Champion no longer will ships food there because of it. I'm not sure where you get off blaming Champion for it when really it was all Austrailia's government, and Champion refuses to send food there since. 

Facts. They get you a long way.

ETA: Champion and Natura are easily the most reliable, ethical companies in regards to commercial pet food.


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## buddy97 (Mar 29, 2010)

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> well buddy, im pretty sure ive noted my concerns with you on orijen, and for you they werent anythig that concerned you which is quite ok. my concerns are the bone issue, and the austrailia issue.
> those might not be big issues for you, but idont like them. kind of like how ethoxyquin isnt a huge issue for me, but for you i think it is.
> 
> .


no, that must have been a discussion w/someone else. im more concerend w/ the Aussie gov't on that issue. you're right, tho bone issue was no big deal to me. relative to how other manufacturers operate, i still will trust Champion and Natura more than any of them.


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5 (Feb 11, 2010)

buddy97 said:


> no, that must have been a discussion w/someone else. im more concerend w/ the Aussie gov't on that issue. you're right, tho bone issue was no big deal to me. relative to how other manufacturers operate, i still will trust Champion and Natura more than any of them.


yeah there isnt really any trustworthy kibble company. i mean naturas pretty good, but who knows down the road. people say that its the aussie governments fault, but idisagree. champion was given a choice. they either allowed the aussie govt to irradiate the kibble, or the aussies wouldnt allow champion to import the food. champion decided to allow the aussie govt to irradiate the food. champion knew that consumers would not pay 80 dollars per bag for radiated food, so they decided NOT to inform us the consumers of what had occurred. the result was not pretty.


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5 (Feb 11, 2010)

CorgiPaws said:


> JUST for the record, this "issue" was on Austrailia's security's part, and NOT on Champion's... and Champion no longer will ships food there because of it. I'm not sure where you get off blaming Champion for it when really it was all Austrailia's government, and Champion refuses to send food there since.
> 
> Facts. They get you a long way.
> 
> ETA: Champion and Natura are easily the most reliable, ethical companies in regards to commercial pet food.


that's your opinion, read my response to buddy on why i feel it was champions fault as a company. i believe it was both of their faults, but the aussie govt doesnt make the food, champion does, so i choose to not support them when i could go to companies i feel better about...and yes that includes canidae.

of course champion doesnt ship foods. its widely known there foods are harmful to pets now. noone will buy it. they should have stopped shipping foods, before anyone knew they were harmful..when only champion and the aussie govt knew about the irradiation. they only stopped cause the public knew.


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> rthat's your opinion, read my response to buddy o nwhy i feel it was champions fault as a companyu. i believe it was both of their faults, but the aussie govt doesnt majke the food, champion does, so i choose to not support them when i could go to companies i feel better about...and yes that includes canidae.


Champion did not tamper with the food. Austrailia did. Champion DID make the food, and while in their posession, the food was fantastic.

Let me get this straight. You feel better about the manufacturer with more recalls under it's belt than nearly any other, than Champion: a company with one flaw on its record, that isn't even their fault. 
Diamond is one of the LEAST reliable companies by a long shot.They even had recalls as recent as Dec. 2009. And that's fact, not my opinion. 
Are you kidding me? 
WHY would you trust diamond over champion? On what basis? I'm not bashing diamond foods, I think that they produce decent foods at decent prices, but the reliability of the company is just not there. Good ingredients do not do me any good if they're contaminated and killing my pets. 

Commercial pet food is so shady and complicated. I'm so glad I've made choices for my pets that keep them out of greedy companies pockets and out of the way of recalls.


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## buddy97 (Mar 29, 2010)

CorgiPaws said:


> C
> Let me get this straight. You feel better about the manufacturer with more recalls under it's belt than nearly any other, than Champion: a company with one flaw on its record, that isn't even their fault.
> Diamond is one of the LEAST reliable companies by a long shot.They even had recalls as recent as Dec. 2009. And that's fact, not my opinion.
> Are you kidding me?
> WHY would you trust diamond over champion? On what basis? I'm not bashing diamond foods, I think that they produce decent foods at decent prices, but the reliability of the company is just not there..


if anyone ever asks me "what is the one manufacturer i should steer clear of?", the answer will alway be...Diamond. way too many foods being made for way too many companies. they have demonstrated repeatedly an inability to keep their ducks in a row.


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5 (Feb 11, 2010)

so what do you feed? oijen adult?


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## buddy97 (Mar 29, 2010)

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> so what do you feed? oijen adult?


well, i rotate every 30 lb bag---Orijen adult, acana pacifica, acana grasslands, EVO (less often), wellness core. im not totally against foods with grains, as there are some decent ones out there, but Kimba simply cannot handle grains at all.

also, about 25% of the meals are raw with no kibble.


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## lilbabyvenus (Mar 3, 2010)

buddy97 said:


> lilbabyvenus,
> 
> maintenance in that context just refers to an adult dog who is done growing (ie you only seek to maintain his/her current condition)


Oh ok. Thank you so much!


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## PUNKem733 (Jun 12, 2009)

CorgiPaws said:


> Champion did not tamper with the food. Austrailia did. Champion DID make the food, and while in their posession, the food was fantastic.
> 
> Let me get this straight. You feel better about the manufacturer with more recalls under it's belt than nearly any other, than Champion: a company with one flaw on its record, that isn't even their fault.
> Diamond is one of the LEAST reliable companies by a long shot.They even had recalls as recent as Dec. 2009. And that's fact, not my opinion.
> ...


Yeah I had this conversation with RC about the Aussie Gov't issue, he contends and believes that it's Champions fault.  

People like that you just move on, and take satisfaction in knowing you are right, and they are blind to the obvious.


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## kevin bradley (Aug 9, 2009)

buddy97 said:


> well, i rotate every 30 lb bag---Orijen adult, acana pacifica, acana grasslands, EVO (less often), wellness core. im not totally against foods with grains, as there are some decent ones out there, but Kimba simply cannot handle grains at all.
> 
> also, about 25% of the meals are raw with no kibble.




Buddy, so good to see someone else following an appropriate regimen....someday we'll get RC to follow along. :wink:


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## buddy97 (Mar 29, 2010)

kevin bradley said:


> Buddy, so good to see someone else following an appropriate regimen....someday we'll get RC to follow along. :wink:


well, to be fair, in my brain, i know the most species appropriate thing would be to change the 25% raw to 100% raw...im ever so slowly going in that direction.


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5 (Feb 11, 2010)

yeah that would be the best thing buddy, but the diet youre feeding is still awesome. im moving closer to that as well, but im still very far, im just getting shane into grain free now, and in a few months will move to evo herring. from there the only place to go is raw lol, there;s not a better food than evo herring..except orijen red which i feel is equal not better.

as for the orijen vs aussie issue, i wont argue anymore but ill say it one more time. i feel it is champions fault because austrailia gave champion an ultimatum. they said that champion could only sell their dog foods i naustrailia if and only if they agreed to allow austrailia to irradiate the foods. champion had two options. LOSE THE SALES O NAUSSIES by not allowing austrailia to irradiate, therefore not selling to aussies..or option 2..sell to austrailia and allow their food to be irradiated by the aussie govt.

orijen cared more about making money off ofaussies, and allowed the govt to irradiate the food in exchange for the permission to import their food in austrailia for sales.

orijen knew that all of the pet owners feeding their foods would not pau 70-80 bucks for food that was irradiated by the aussie govt. they decided not to tell the aussies of what had been done to their foods, and thus the consumers were left with cats that were in irrepairable shapes.

that's my view and you guys are entitled tto urs.!


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