# puppy small kibble/allergy food choice



## aerialdreams (Oct 24, 2014)

Hi everyone, 

I've got a sort of complicated story, so please bear with me! 

I'm currently the proud mama of a 5 month old Havanese girl, and I got her when she was 3 months old. Even before she came home with me, I looked into all the different types of puppy foods because I want to give her the best food possible! At that time, I settled on Fromm gold puppy and Earthborn Holistic puppy vantage, and I bought a 15 lb of each food (to rotate her food) right before she came home with me (I decided on those 2 because they had great reviews and were more affordable, and since I'm a grad student I'm really on a budget). 

Now, when she first came home with me, her breeder had her on purina pro plan. I really didn't like this food for her, so I introduced the Fromm to her during the first week. However, as time went on I noticed that she was EXTREMELY itchy all the time and spent all her free time scratching herself. I contacted the breeder, and apparently my puppy's mom also had skin itchiness problems that resolved when my breeder put her on a Wellness (I can't remember specifically which one) grain free food. She told me that it's possible my little baby girl has a grain allergy, and that I should switch over to grain free food. Unfortunately, both of the puppy foods I had bought were not grain free. My puppy is also a super picky eater, and during the first few weeks so got really tired of the Fromm puppy food and basically didn't want to eat. That, plus her itchiness prompted me to buy her Acana. She was then on Acana Wild Prairie grain free for a month and half, and while she was on this she would have good days with firm poop and bad days with very runny poop. Her itchiness certainly decreased, but it never really completely went away. I'm not sure if that could have been exacerbated by her treats, which I don't believe were all grain free, but who knows! 

Anyway, in the last 2 weeks or so, her itching started to pick up again, plus she was coming to the end of her second bag of Acana, and it seemed like she was getting tired of Acana as well and stopped eating her food. I really had to coax her into eating at all. I remembered that when the breeder mentioned Wellness to me, I think she said it was a Wellness food that contained fish. I started to wonder if my puppy's continued itching was due to a chicken allergy as well, though I can't be completely sure. Since I was at the end of my Acana wild prairie bag, I took the opportunity to order her Acana pacifica to see if the fish would make her itching better. However, I ran out of Acana before the new bag came in, so I had to resort to feeding her Fromm again. This time, her itching didn't increase, she loved the food, and her poops got firmer! I think part of that is she is a small puppy, and the Acana pieces were too big for her to chew through, and she liked eating the tiny pieces of Fromm. After being on Fromm for 2 days, her itching increased again, and her new Acana pacifica bag came in, so I switched her over to the new Acana. However, she was not interested in the food very much (I really think it's because the kibble size is too big), and since she's been on it, her poops have been almost TOO dry. When she goes she has to strain very hard, and sometimes nothing comes out at all. 

So now, basically I'm left with half a bag of Fromm puppy, most of Acana pacifica, all of an unopened bag of earthborn holistic, and a puppy who doesn't want to eat with lots of itches :twitch: What do you guys think I should do? I'm now considering buying her some more new food (which is terrible on my wallet, but I want her to be comfy and happy). I guess I'm looking for a food that has small kibbles, that is grain free and possible chicken free? (what do you guys think? Does she sound like she has a grain or chicken allergy?) I've looked into Fromm four-star surf and turf, but it has chicken in it (which may be ok for her, I don't know). It makes me sad to switch away from Acana since it's such a high quality food (though my wallet will be happy), but the pieces really are too big for her. Any ideas? 

Thanks for reading through all that!


P.S. By the way, I did bring up her itching to the vet when we went for her shots. She just prescribed some antibiotics for a surface skin infection, and we finished the antibiotics a couple of weeks ago. Her skin on her belly has healed completely, but the itching remains. I had asked if the itching was an allergy of some kind, but of course, there are so many causes of itchiness that she can't know for sure, so she just prescribed the antibiotics.


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## InkedMarie (Sep 9, 2011)

Your pup is only five months old, you've had her for two months. IMO, you're doing too much. This is jmo but I think when bringing home any dog, leave them on their existing food until they're used to your home.

You're also, IMO, creating a picky dog. Leave her on a food. I generally prescribe "tough love" but I don't know about puppies. I'd choose a grain & chicken free food. Even tho it's not grainfree, Natures Logic has only millet and tiny kibbles. I believe Amicus is tiny too. I'm confused as to why the vet put her on antibiotics? They can also cause looser stools. Regarding treats, make sure they're grainfree.


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## Georgiapeach (Jan 24, 2011)

Too many foods in too short of a time, IMO. I'd get a grain free kibble that is chicken free and small, then employ tough love, as long as the food agrees with your pup. 

My toy poodle does best on and loves Now Grain Free Small Breed: Small Breed Dog Food | Petcurean NOW No Grain Dog Food. It contains turkey, salmon, and duck, but no chicken. The kibble size is very small and seems to be very palatable. When we first got our poodle, he was hesitant to eat (an abused rescue), and this was the only food he'd eat for awhile (he now eats anything you put in front of him - lol!). You can also wet the food a little to increase its aroma. This often helps increase the dog's interest in eating the kibble.

Another kibble that may work is Victor Grain Free Salmon (orange bag). It's not specifically a small breed kibble, but its small size is fine for small dogs.


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## Shamrockmommy (Sep 10, 2009)

I'd go back to the purina and leave her on that for several months, honestly. She won't turn into a mutant no matter what you read against Purina online. Most of my dogs can't handle the high protein fancy trendy foods. One is on Science Diet. I could just slap myself because a couple weeks I decided he "probably should" be on something "better" and tried him on Precise Holistic. Nothing but green diarrhea and weight loss (he's already skinny). 

he can handle Purina beyond and Science Diet and that's about it. He holds weight and has a happy tummy. Not al dogs (in fact, many!) do well on the high protein/fat foods. 

Go back to the purina, let her get her belly settled (puppy bellies are very easy to upset the first couple of years in my experience!) and go from there. Don't read too much online about which food is supposedly best and then have your poor dog suffer for it.

It's a tough lesson to learn, but one that my poodle, Jack, has taught me.

Also- how much are you bathing? Any fleas? Carpet powders or shampoo? Do you use air fresheners/plug-ins, floor cleaners? 

I have one reacting right now to the mold that comes with fallen leaves, also. It's not always food.


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## NutroGeoff (May 15, 2013)

It does sound like an allergy to me. Now, dogs, the same as humans, can have either environmentaal/seasonal allergies or food allergies. Without doing the actual allergy tests to find out exactly what it is, an elimination diet is the easiest option for you. I do generally recommend just trying to find an extremely simple dog food with just one meat protein source (generally something more like lamb, fish or venison) and possibly even grain free. I know that there are also some more rare allergies like flaxseed and even potato but more often than not you will find it to a chicken or a grain source. The picky-ness issue could be for a number of reasons as well. Small dogs do tend to be a bit more picky than larger dogs because they can't smell the food as well, due to the fact that you have tried fish (which smells more and dogs generally love) and your dog still didn't like it, I'd say that might not be the problem. It could be something as simple as kibble size or shape, or it could even just be that your dog's teeth are just a bit sensitive while growing in adult teeth and whatnot.


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## aerialdreams (Oct 24, 2014)

Thank you everyone for your responses so far! 

I definitely plan on picking one food (probably grain and chicken free that has small kibble) and sticking to it. I know that I've switched her a lot, but all of those switches so far were for her allergies/itching (and one was because the food I ordered didn't arrive on time). I will definitely be using tough love once I decide on one kibble! Although, since she's a puppy I'm afraid that if she doesn't eat she won't get all the nutrients she needs to grow healthy. For the last 2 days now she only ate 1 meal a day, which means only 1/4 c kibble  

Her itching could definitely be from other environmental factors, but I thought of food allergies first since her dam had the same issues that was resolved with diet change. Since she has really long fur as a Havanese, she actually gets daily brushing and weekly baths, and I'm sure she doesn't have any fleas or ticks. The vet prescribed antibiotics last time because she has some lesions on her belly that looked like a skin infection, and I truly believe she got those from scratching herself so much. Those have completely disappeared after the antibiotic use, but she's still scratching lots. 

Right now I can't decide if I should go with a food elimination diet with only a single source of protein, or if I should just find food that has no chicken and grain. Ideally I would like to do the elimination diet, but it's hard to find a single protein source kibble that is also small. I really think we have to switch from acana mainly because the kibble size is too big and she doesn't like chewing it too much. She's also in the process of losing her teeth so that's probably contributing too. I know canine caviar has some limited ingredient diets, but I have no idea how big their kibbles are. Otherwise there are more small kibbles that are grain and chicken free (like Fromm, NOW, GO!, wellness), but they are not single protein source. 

Also, what do I do with all this extra puppy food and treats that are not grain free?? I don't want to waste them and I don't know any other puppy owners here...


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## Georgiapeach (Jan 24, 2011)

Donate your unused kibble to your local animal control or a rescue. They can always use it!


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## Sapphire-Light (Aug 8, 2010)

aerialdreams said:


> Thank you everyone for your responses so far!
> 
> I definitely plan on picking one food (probably grain and chicken free that has small kibble) and sticking to it. I know that I've switched her a lot, but all of those switches so far were for her allergies/itching (and one was because the food I ordered didn't arrive on time). I will definitely be using tough love once I decide on one kibble! Although, since she's a puppy I'm afraid that if she doesn't eat she won't get all the nutrients she needs to grow healthy. For the last 2 days now she only ate 1 meal a day, which means only 1/4 c kibble
> 
> ...




I have problems similar to yours, my toy poodle is very picky and has allergies

Of kibble shapes I noticed he prefers flat shapes or sharp edges, he really dislikes big kibbles and certain kibble shapes like compleatly round, tube like or squares

In resume he likes something that his tiny teeth can grip and break easy so they"handle better" between the teeth, that's why he dislikes so mush the circular ones since they "slip" between the teeth




My dog also is going to start an elimination diet, and I can see how hard it is to find a grain free wit tiny kibble, for example I tried wit eartborn primitive it has tiny kibbles but he dislikes the taste


Recently I got some samples of prescription royal canin, is not what I really wish my dog should eat but is something he is willing to eat the RC food has a smell similar to powder milk that is very atractive to him, the kibbles are flat tiny disk that he doesn't have a problem chewing

You could try asking your vet or a store for samples, however some of this diets have chicken or a few grains like soy or maize (depending in the version) he tried the intestinal and hipoallergic, like I say not compleatly GF but at least he enjoy it 

I saw also the propacs ultimates grain free at the stores, however at my store they didn't have samples 

Of the bags I touched to see how the kibbles were, the small kibbles are lamb and fish (they didn't have the beef) the GF chicken formula felt like bigger kibbles , however they have a chicken and brown rice (no corn or soy) that has smaller kibbles

You can try and touch the bags or ask for samples


http://www.propacultimates.com/

http://www.royalcanin.us/products/products/veterinary-products/all-veterinary-products


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## aerialdreams (Oct 24, 2014)

Ah, so just this morning I heard back from my breeder that my puppy's dam's skin itching problems went away with wellness core ocean formula which is grain and chicken free. Since it worked for her, I thought I'd try something similar to this for my puppy. I've heard that the wellness core kibbles are really large, so I think the closest thing right now with small kibbles is wellness simple limited ingredient for small breed salmon and potato formula. 

The issue with this is this food is not a all life stage food and it's made for adults. Is it ok to feed this to my 5 month old puppy? I'm thinking of adding salmon fish oil to this kibble, but I wonder if there's enough nutrients to support a growing puppy. Anything else I should supplement? If this goes well, I think I will try the now fresh small breed grain free or the Fromm four stars which contain more ingredients but is still chicken and grain free.


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## Sapphire-Light (Aug 8, 2010)

aerialdreams said:


> Ah, so just this morning I heard back from my breeder that my puppy's dam's skin itching problems went away with wellness core ocean formula which is grain and chicken free. Since it worked for her, I thought I'd try something similar to this for my puppy. I've heard that the wellness core kibbles are really large, so I think the closest thing right now with small kibbles is wellness simple limited ingredient for small breed salmon and potato formula.
> 
> The issue with this is this food is not a all life stage food and it's made for adults. Is it ok to feed this to my 5 month old puppy? I'm thinking of adding salmon fish oil to this kibble, but I wonder if there's enough nutrients to support a growing puppy. Anything else I should supplement? If this goes well, I think I will try the now fresh small breed grain free or the Fromm four stars which contain more ingredients but is still chicken and grain free.


About the taste that would depend in your particular dog, mine really dislikes fish in kibble that's why he refused the eartborn primitive and ocean fushion

He also refused fish oil in capsules, in my last vet visit the vet gave him a vitamin that smells like dried bacon/liver that has fish oil and is the only omega oil he is willing to eat

Sadly wit picky dogs you have to have an open mind and find something they are willing to eat, even if is not what you want them to eat


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## Georgiapeach (Jan 24, 2011)

aerialdreams said:


> Ah, so just this morning I heard back from my breeder that my puppy's dam's skin itching problems went away with wellness core ocean formula which is grain and chicken free. Since it worked for her, I thought I'd try something similar to this for my puppy. I've heard that the wellness core kibbles are really large, so I think the closest thing right now with small kibbles is wellness simple limited ingredient for small breed salmon and potato formula.
> 
> The issue with this is this food is not a all life stage food and it's made for adults. Is it ok to feed this to my 5 month old puppy? I'm thinking of adding salmon fish oil to this kibble, but I wonder if there's enough nutrients to support a growing puppy. Anything else I should supplement? If this goes well, I think I will try the now fresh small breed grain free or the Fromm four stars which contain more ingredients but is still chicken and grain free.


I'd recommend feeding either a puppy food or an all life stages food to get the needed nutrients for a growing puppy, for the first year.


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## aerialdreams (Oct 24, 2014)

I understand that the adult food is not ideal, but there aren't all life stage or puppy foods that are grain free, chicken free, and has small kibble size. They may have 2 of the 3, but I haven't found one that satisfies all 3 requirements, which is why I may have to get the Adult food, and I was wondering what I should supplement with to make it more suited for a puppy. It's either that, or i don't get a limited ingredient food. I guess I'm not sure which route is the better one to take: get adult limited ingredient food, or puppy/all life stages food that's grain free but not limited ingredient (no food elimination trial). What do you guys think?


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## NutroGeoff (May 15, 2013)

aerialdreams said:


> Thank you everyone for your responses so far!
> 
> I definitely plan on picking one food (probably grain and chicken free that has small kibble) and sticking to it. I know that I've switched her a lot, but all of those switches so far were for her allergies/itching (and one was because the food I ordered didn't arrive on time). I will definitely be using tough love once I decide on one kibble! Although, since she's a puppy I'm afraid that if she doesn't eat she won't get all the nutrients she needs to grow healthy. For the last 2 days now she only ate 1 meal a day, which means only 1/4 c kibble
> 
> ...


I hope you are able to find something that will work for your pup!


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## Sapphire-Light (Aug 8, 2010)

aerialdreams said:


> I understand that the adult food is not ideal, but there aren't all life stage or puppy foods that are grain free, chicken free, and has small kibble size. They may have 2 of the 3, but I haven't found one that satisfies all 3 requirements, which is why I may have to get the Adult food, and I was wondering what I should supplement with to make it more suited for a puppy. It's either that, or i don't get a limited ingredient food. I guess I'm not sure which route is the better one to take: get adult limited ingredient food, or puppy/all life stages food that's grain free but not limited ingredient (no food elimination trial). What do you guys think?



Maybe try a grainfree puppy food first for some weeks/months and if the allergies don't clear try a limited ingredient since then your puppy would be a couple of months older


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## Georgiapeach (Jan 24, 2011)

A couple of options that my daughter's sensitive 7 pound yorkie-poo does well on; kibble is very tiny, all life stages kibble:
L.I.D. Limited Ingredient Diets Sweet Potato and Fish Small Breed Bites Dry Dog Formula - Natural Balance Pet Foods
L.I.D. Limited Ingredient Diets Potato & Duck Small Breed Bites Dry Dog Formula - Natural Balance Pet Foods


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## A&W (Apr 26, 2014)

Highly doubt this has anything to do with food. Sounds like typical environmental allergies.


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## chilipepper5353 (Nov 28, 2012)

I have a rescue almost 2 yrs who is Havanese (mix?) . She has been doing very well on Fresh Pet Select with the chicken or turkey & brown rice. shes been eating it for almost a year. However, I am considering a limited ingredient food by Natural Balance, since my Lab seems to be bothered with allergies as he's gotten older. You also may want to consider adding an Omega3 or 6 Ie:fish oil to her diet. This can certainly help dry skin


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## NutroGeoff (May 15, 2013)

I have also started adding coconut oil to Matley's food and that seems to have cleared up some of the skin issues he had when we adopted him.


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