# i did something horrible to snorkels with ribs



## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

I got venison ribs for the first time. They looked pretty big but little meat so I gave her two. I was standing there talking to my brother and looked down and only saw one. I never dreamed she ate it so I was looking in the grass and while I was looking she ate the other one. Stupid stupid me. I thought they would be like beef ribs which she never swallowed 

We came to er this morning and ribs are still there. They are calling another place that can do an endoscopy. I Just pray I haven't killed her


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## Herzo (Feb 5, 2011)

Oh no I hope she will be alright too. That little stink she needs to be more careful. Thinking of you both.


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

uh oh  

Venison ribs aren't as thick as beef ribs. Did she swallow them whole? My dogs crunch them up like french fries.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Absolutely whole. And they are up and down in her stomach not laying flat. Still waiting for the vet to call back.


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## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

Oh, poor you and poor Snorkles. She's showing symptoms of blockage then? Will be thinking of you and Snorkles, and your husband too as I know how much he adores her. Please keep us updated. Good luck.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

how is she acting?

breathe.

and let us know......snorkels.....oy oy oy...what ARE we going to do with you?


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Thanks. No blockage I don't think since they are still in her stomach. But her stomach hurts. That's why they are hoping to pull them out rather than do surgery. But either way is anesthesia. And that effing Clinic won't call back we've been waiting over an hour. What Good is an er if they aren't equipped to fix her??


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## ciaBrysh (Dec 16, 2011)

Keeping you guys in my thoughts!


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## liquid (Dec 28, 2011)

Oh no, I hope everything will be alright. Silly Snorkels... 
Sending you good thoughts.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

magicre said:


> how is she acting?
> 
> breathe.
> 
> and let us know......snorkels.....oy oy oy...what ARE. Dontwe going to do with you?


She bites at anyone who touches her stomach. Other than That ok so far. I don't know what the heck I was thinking. If anyone knows how she is it's me. They were just so big! I never dreamed she would swallow them whole


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

probably a stupid question, but wouldn't her stomach acids break them down?

and you could give her slippery elm to line her gut? to protect it from anything like shards? if that's even an issue?

there's a shot for stomach aches....natalie knows the name of it because i'm always forgetting it.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

That's why I didn't bring her in yesterday - I thought they might dissolve. But they are 100% whole. No shards. They took xrays and showed me.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

I guess they are too hard for her stomach acid. She ate them 20 hours ago


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## GoingPostal (Sep 5, 2011)

Has she had any food since then?


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

Poor old girl  I hope they call soon!


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

GoingPostal said:


> Has she had any food since then?


I gave her some liver last night. No puking and her vital signs are good. But very lethargic - I stayed up all night watching her and she slept fine until 5 and then woke up with stomach pain


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

What really makes me mad is I've gone completely to giant bones for her. Then I got this venison and lost my mind


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

ok. time to stop with the guilt trip.

you didn't lose your mind.

she is a crazy snorkels who thinks she can eat anything.....we can't ever predict dogs....even when we think we have everything down pat....we don't and never really did....

i know you try so very hard to make her life a living heaven.....but you're making yours a living hell for something over which you don't have the control you would like to have.

she's a small dog....bones like this could take days to dissolve. i'm just thankful she has a raw fed dog's stomach acids....

i hope they don't have to be removed...and i'm sure they hurt....i wish i had an answer for you....but i think self flagellation isn't one of them.


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## chowder (Sep 7, 2008)

Poor Snorkels! I'm sitting here sending every single 'worry vibe' possible your way. Let us know how it goes. She's a tough old lady. Both of you hang in there.


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## nfedyk (Jan 13, 2012)

Oh goodness. Keeping my fingers crossed that your pooch will be ok.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Did you give them attached to each other or were they separate? 

Don't beat yourself up. It's not going to do anyone any good. It's not like you gave them to her knowing what she would do...please keep us posted!


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## Herzo (Feb 5, 2011)

yes I know how big they are and I would have never thought she would swallow them either so take a breath. Maybe it will be like Turtle when she ate 42 chocolate covered cherries soaked in Amaretto that I make for Christmas. She was throwing up steams and chocolate and cherries all over, I called my dad because he is the cherry addict. I told him she may die and he told me oh I think she will live and that may not be a good thing for you.

So I just have a feeling she will live so she can make you worry another day. Snorkels, Snorkels, Snorkels...................................


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## shellbell (Sep 24, 2011)

Sending very good thoughts! Like Natalie asked, was it two ribs seperate or attached? About how big were they? 

These dogs can do things like this in the blink of an eye under the most watchful owner.


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## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

Yeah xellil. You've only done what probably every single one of us would do, and thats simply feeding Snorkles something like that, not believing for a second that she would, or could, swallow it whole. It's nothing to beat yourself up over at all. With a dog that's so food driven, all you can do is your best to monitor what she eats, the potential is always there that she's always going to outwit you at some point. You are only human, you can only do your best. 
Hang in there, we're thinking of you......


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## BeagleCountry (Jan 20, 2012)

Sending positive thoughts that a vet who can help her contacts you soon. There has to be a vet in Dallas/Ft. Worth who can do it.


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## xchairity_casex (Oct 8, 2011)

poor girl! dont beat yourself up! these things happen and they are super scary ((((HUGS))))
i also learned the hard way with Cesar with a turkey neck that was HUGE it was frozen and about 2 inches thick and he tried swollowing whole it was about 6 inches long he got it halfways swolled and couldnt breathe or cough it back up i had to reach in and pull it out then slice it in half length wise i really did NOt imagine he would try swallowing it whole


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

DaneMama said:


> Did you give them attached to each other or were they separate?
> 
> Don't beat yourself up. It's not going to do anyone any good. It's not like you gave them to her knowing what she would do...please keep us posted!




what would be the difference if they were separate or attached.


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## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

Here's hoping that your lack of activity on here means they called you back and that the problem is being taken care of as we speak! Good vibes coming from the Lopshire house!


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## OnyxDog (Jun 15, 2011)

Sending good vibes your way! We will be thinking of you and Snorkels!


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## luvMyBRT (Mar 8, 2010)

Sending good vibes too! I am hoping for a good update. Hope everything is okay. :smile:


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## Donna Little (May 31, 2011)

I just read this thread and am hoping that Snorkels is going to be okay! Poor little food hound! She just doesn't know what's in her best interest when it comes to eating does she? 
Please post and let us know how she is. Sending tons of good thoughts and healing vibes to your little sweetie.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

have we heard anything yet?


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## Herzo (Feb 5, 2011)

Nothing, she must be at the vets. Hope they get them out soon. Poor Snorkels.


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## mischiefgrrl (Oct 28, 2010)

Sending my good thoughts to you and Snorkles. I don't think I would figure a doxie would swallow those whole either! Snorkles is one determined lil gal isn't she?


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## kathylcsw (Jul 31, 2011)

Will be keeping you and Snorkels in my thoughts. Fingers crossed for a good news post soon.


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## meganr66 (Mar 2, 2012)

Hoping Snorkels is okay, sending happy tummy vibes to her!


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## Roo (Oct 17, 2010)

I hope Snorkels is ok, and on the mend soon.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Thanks so much for your good thoughts. It means the world to me and Snorkels. They are doing the endoscopy now, or prepping her.They did let me sit with her awhile. But they said it might take a couple of hours and If they can't pull them out they have to do the surgery. Thank God they did not make me sign that negligence form. 

No I cut them apart. It didn't seem like alot of meat so I separated them. If all turns out well I will definitely forgive myself! I want her to be around a long time.


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## Chocx2 (Nov 16, 2009)

I hope all goes well for you keep us posted!


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## Hadley (Jan 6, 2011)

Hoping for the best possible outcome for dear little Snorkels. You guys are in pur thoughts!


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## NewYorkDogue (Sep 27, 2011)

Oh... please do not beat yourself up about this. These dogs of ours are certified crazy at times, driven by dumb, canine impulses and instincts. Just when we think we have their quirks figured out... they go and throw a kink in the works. And we must begin all over again....

Lots of warm, healing thoughts headed your way. Snorkels is a tough girl, remember that...


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

xellil said:


> Thanks so much for your good thoughts. It means the world to me and Snorkels. They are doing the endoscopy now, or prepping her.They did let me sit with her awhile. But they said it might take a couple of hours and If they can't pull them out they have to do the surgery. Thank God they did not make me sign that negligence form.
> 
> No I cut them apart. It didn't seem like alot of meat so I separated them. If all turns out well I will definitely forgive myself! I want her to be around a long time.


oh, please let us know. i feel as if snorkels belongs to all of us.


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## Unosmom (May 3, 2009)

Oh no!, how scary  I hope everything goes well for little Snorkels.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

I just want to say to anyone this might scare away from bones that this has absolutely nothing to do with the bone. Snorkels eats chicken bones minimally crunched up all the time. This was just a bone that was the exact wrong size that a dog with four teeth couldn't crunch but could swallow. And since it was whole it's not dissolving. It says nothing about whether a dog should eat bones. If she is fine she will get a chicken head next week


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## IslandPaws4Raw (Sep 7, 2011)

Oh wow, I just saw this post! I'm sure all will be fine shortly. Oh Snorkles! Why would you go and scare your peeps like that???!!!!!

Thinking about you and sending positive vibes!


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## Herzo (Feb 5, 2011)

magicre said:


> oh, please let us know. i feel as if snorkels belongs to all of us.


You mean she doesn't? Well none of us will ever think she's not ours. 

Do they think they can get it out? I just keep coming back on to see if there is more news, not getting anything done.


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## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

I know that if I were to give Buck individual beef ribs he would do exactly what Snorkels did. He would swallow one or more whole. He would make the same dumb decision Snorkels did... What drives them to swallow something they shouldn't? I don't know, but at least you don't have to hide your masking tape! We do because Buck will eat that too. At least the rib was food. There is an entire show based on the things dogs eat and I can say that a venison rib isn't the craziest. eyes bigger than their stomachs...

I hope everything is going smoothly. I feel the same as Re. Snorkels is our dog too!


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## DeekenDog (Aug 29, 2011)

Just seeing this now. Hoping the endoscopy is going smoothly and is successful. I'm sending lots of good thoughts and wishes to you guys.


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## chowder (Sep 7, 2008)

I'm sitting here also checking constantly for updates on Snorkels and also letting my husband know (and he doesn't even know Snorkels!).

While I'm sitting here, Shade is gnawing away at an old single beef rib that's been laying on the floor for 3 days. Neither of my two currently are food obsessive dogs, but I did have one chow pup that was that way. He inhaled everything as fast as it hit the floor. I just don't know what you can do with that type of personality except give them giant pieces of food. 

More good vibes heading Snorkels way..........


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## Donna Little (May 31, 2011)

chowder said:


> I'm sitting here also checking constantly for updates on Snorkels and also letting my husband know (and he doesn't even know Snorkels!).


I know, I can't stop looking either. I feel like I know Snorkels. Apparently she just has that "something special" that makes everybody fall in love... With so many people pulling for her she has to be okay.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

I am sending good thoughts your way. And Snorkels of course. I agree with everyone, she is so special to this forum!


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## werecatrising (Oct 15, 2010)

I've been thinking about Snorkels all day. I hope things are going well.


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## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

Yeah, I came to check in too. Hope everything is going well.
You know, it's just as well our dogs don't live in the wild, can you imagine the trouble they would get themselves in?


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

i just spoke to xellil.......

THEY GOT THE BONES OUT WITH JUST ENDOSCOPY.

no surgery.

they will be keeping her overnight and xellil is getting something to eat.

looks like everything is going to be okay, other than an exhausted doxie mommy....

she asked that i post here to tell all of you who have been with her since step one as she put it.

she said she is very grateful.

i, for one, feel as if i can breathe again.


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

Good news!! 

I have been worried about them both, all day long. 

I am glad it is a positive outcome!


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## OnyxDog (Jun 15, 2011)

Oh good! I'm going to go tell my husband... he was worried too! We can now all breathe a collective sigh of relief!


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## chowder (Sep 7, 2008)

Whew!!! What a relief!! Nothing smaller then a basketball for that little dog from now on. We all just can't take it here! 

Time for some Baileys all around!


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## Donna Little (May 31, 2011)

What a relief! I've looked at this thread about 500 times! Yay for little Snorks. I'd like to say maybe she's learned her lesson but we all know that's just silly to assume. :smile:


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## Kat (Jul 12, 2011)

What a relief, Im so happy everything is ok!


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## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

Thanks re. If you talk to xellil, please give her all our best wishes and tell her how happy we are everything turned out fine.
Cheers mate.


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## nfedyk (Jan 13, 2012)

Oh thank goodness he is ok.


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## catahoulamom (Sep 23, 2010)

That is sooo lucky! I am glad she is going to be fine without surgery. Now don't get yourself into any more trouble Snorkels!!!


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

penny, she was going out to get snorkels something to eat. i am sure she'll be back....


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## Mondo (Dec 20, 2011)

Great news. We were going to send positive thoughts -- sending them now for a speedy recovery.

Mondo, Tuffy & Toby.

xo


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## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

magicre said:


> penny, she was going out to get snorkels something to eat. i am sure she'll be back....


I can only imagine how exhausted she and her husband must be. 2 days of mental exhaustion. Hopefully they'll get a nice relaxing catch up day tomorrow. 

ETA: Thanks re.....


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## hmbutler (Aug 4, 2011)

well I'm kinda glad this all happened overnight for me in Aus, I would've spent the last 9 hours checking this thread constantly for updates on my lil gal snorkels!!

xellil, I am SO glad she is ok, and don't beat yourself up just because crazy snorks will eat just about anything. Thoughts are with you guys for the recover process, hopefully snorkels is good as new in no time xx :hug:


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## mischiefgrrl (Oct 28, 2010)

Been thinking about her all day.. SO glad to hear this update! Thank you Re!


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

I just don't know how to thank each of you for all your good thoughts. I firmly believe that your good vibes finally got that snare to catch and pull those bones out so she didn't have to have full on surgery. I have the bones and will post a photo tomorrow - I can't believe they were in her stomach. They are so long. They looked about 2 feet long but i'm sure they are shorter than that 

I'm going back tonight with food/broth (thanks Re for the suggestion) and will probably stay the night, even if in the waiting room. the ends of the ribs had gone down to points and scraped her tummy up pretty good, and they want to monitor her heart and make sure her lungs are ok after the anesthesia.

And definitely big bones from now on - I think i won't even do the beef ribs any more, just in case. The deer ribs were just as long or longer, but not as wide. After all this time, I still underestimated her determination to eat stuff.

And again, thanks for everything. It's really humbling to see so many people care for her. It's funny how I am attached to dogs on here I have never even met! Snorkels, that little ****, must like the drama.


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## DeekenDog (Aug 29, 2011)

Thanks Re for the update.

So glad to hear this. I too have been checking this thread for updates


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## liquid (Dec 28, 2011)

SO glad everything worked out! :smile:
Snorkels is definitely one of those dogs that is just loved by the entire community. She's our four-toothed, "big" dog in a tiny package :wink:


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## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

Thanks xellil. Once Snorkles is feeling a lot better, you can give her a right good telling off from all of us.
So glad everything turned out the best it can. I think you really need to go home and get a good nights sleep. Bet you that after everything thats happened, Snorkles will sleep the whole night. She is blimin lucky to have found you as an owner. Look after yourself, ok?


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## wolfsnaps88 (Jan 2, 2012)

How did I miss this post? 

And HOW in the WORLD did snorkels swallow a deer rib? Thats shocking. I have a doxie mix (larger than Snorkels) and I can't imagine him doing that. 

I suppose only having four teeth didn't help. 

I can not wait for the post that says snorkels is at home doing great! 

I am sure never in your wildest dreams would you think she could possibly do that. I look forward to your picture of this bone that was in her tummy. Wow...


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## CavePaws (Jan 25, 2011)

So glad everything with Snorkels is going okay. I've been keeping track with my phone and sending good vibes her way.  I know it is so scary when this kind of stuff happens. A long time ago, before Indi was on raw, I gave her one of those very thick marrow bones from a cow. Well, she cracked that thing into a bunch of pieces, suprised she did not break a tooth, and swallowed several chunks whole. I was flipping out, took her to the er because she was vomiting, and they told me we could wait a bit and if nothing happens surgery. I chose to wait because she was able to get some of the shards out by throwing up and was passing some poo as well. It was horrible watching her try to get those out.  So sorry you went through that scare. Don't beat yourself up too much, you've got your Snorkels girl still and everything will be a-okay.


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## Herzo (Feb 5, 2011)

Well she is a diva you know. I told you she would live to make you worry again, I had a feeling. Sometimes that just happens to me.

She will be up and going in no time, she's like Maddie a tough old girl. Get some rest tonight, and let us know how she is tomorrow. Oh and tonight I went out to feed the horses and Maddie came back in and got to the 10 lbs, of white flour I just bought. Husband is re doing the pantry and we had put the flour to low, it was all over her face and she was like her tongue was stuck. Thank goodness she will chew up deer ribs though....Snorkels take notice.


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## wolfsnaps88 (Jan 2, 2012)

I just noticed this thread has over 900 views. I think its safe to say everyone here really cares about Snorkel's recovery and xellil too <3


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## Maritan (Nov 11, 2011)

Wow. I can't get on the forum for almost a full weekend and all this happens?! I'm just glad Snorkels is going to fine. And you should get some rest too. :smile:


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

I gave Sprocket a deer rib tonight, in honor of Snorkels <3 

He says "Now I know why Snorkels swallowed this! They are GOOD!!"


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

ok. you can post the picture of snorkels in that hat....

i'm so glad she's doing okay.....try not to stay at the vet too long...they will give her fluids and her stomach will rest....

get some rest. we still have recovery


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## shellbell (Sep 24, 2011)

I'm so glad to read the update and that everything is going to be fine without surgery.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Glad to hear that all has gone well with Snorkles! Thanks for keeping us all updated! 

I made the comment of if they were attached or not because my mom's dog swallowed a whole beef rib once because she fed it all alone. From then on she's fed 2-4 all attached together and she has yet to swallow one since...I'm not sure why this is the case it just is.


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## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

So glad to hear she is ok! We usually spend several hours at the dog park but we left early because I had to see if there was any news! 

I think it is safe to assume that Snorkels is loved by all.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

I don't think she could have swallowed them if they had been attached 

They let me take her out to pee and she took off running
Then fought going back in the cage. She is HUNGRY but only gets a tablespoon every three hours. And Re so glad you told me about the broth
She drank some But didn't want water


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Dude and Bucks Mamma said:


> So glad to hear she is ok! We usually spend several hours at the dog park but we left early because I had to see if there was any news!
> 
> I think it is safe to assume that Snorkels is loved by all.


Oh that is so sweet and I'm very sorry you missed out on the dog park. We had a gorgeous day here today so I hope Rick got rebel out some


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

Dude and Bucks Mamma said:


> So glad to hear she is ok! We usually spend several hours at the dog park but we left early because I had to see if there was any news!
> 
> I think it is safe to assume that Snorkels is loved by all.


We took the dogs on a hike too but I had my iPhone. I must have checked this thread 100 times today 

I read Res post on the way home and I said "oh good!!". Drew asked what was wrong so I told him what happen to Snorkels and that I'd been worried all day.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

xellil said:


> I don't think she could have swallowed them if they had been attached
> 
> They let me take her out to pee and she took off running
> Then fought going back in the cage. She is HUNGRY but only gets a tablespoon every three hours. And Re so glad you told me about the broth
> She drank some But didn't want water


i know from now on i won't be giving single beef ribs, even tho my guys have never swallowed the bone...this was enough to scare the hell out of me. lesson learned.

you're welcome about the broth....i'm glad she was able to take some down.

i hope you plan on going home tonight.....

it's been a long day for you....and the little s***


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

No beef ribs for Snorkels either but I'll keep giving her chickenbones.

They are going to let me feed and walk her at 12:30 and 3:40 so I will nap in the car. Not inside because I'm afraid I'll be sitting there with my mouth open snoring like a maniac!

None of them want to hand feed her liver.


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## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

I was out all day so I just read all this now.. so glad Snorkles is okay, and didn't need surgery.

Sounds like Snorkles has a lot of spunk for a 14 year old!


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## kathylcsw (Jul 31, 2011)

I am glad that everything is turning out well. Considering that she already is able to run off and is hungry looks like she will be back to new in no time!


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## chowder (Sep 7, 2008)

xellil said:


> They let me take her out to pee and she took off running
> Then fought going back in the cage.


I had to read that to my husband. 

There's something about little girl dogs..... just don't mess with them, they are tough little buggers !!


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## NewYorkDogue (Sep 27, 2011)

magicre said:


> i know from now on i won't be giving single beef ribs, even tho my guys have never swallowed the bone...this was enough to scare the hell out of me. lesson learned.


I posted here last fall in a panic because I had given Mateo a beef rib, left the room for a couple minutes... when I came back the whole thing was gone. Yep, he swallowed it, whole. All the kind folks here said not to panic, but just watch him; things were probably going to be ok...

Well, everything WAS ok; he digested it and there was no stomach upset whatsoever. Of course, at that time he was maybe 65 pounds or so...

But. Since then, I just won't do it. I will give him just about any other kind of bone... but just not beef ribs (at least single ones.) He's not even a "gulper"--- he usually takes his time with chomping through stuff. But something about ribs make them easy to slide down the hatch... too easily.

Anyway-- that's my comfort level at the moment. There are plenty enough other bones on an animal that he is welcome to...


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## Donna Little (May 31, 2011)

Once you get her home, and after the stern talk about inappropriate swallowing of larger-than-herself objects, give her a kiss from all of us. Should keep the both of you busy for a while. :wink: We love you little Snorkels!


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## hmbutler (Aug 4, 2011)

Donna Little said:


> Once you get her home, and after the stern talk about inappropriate swallowing of larger-than-herself objects, give her a kiss from all of us. Should keep the both of you busy for a while. :wink: We love you little Snorkels!


No doubt it'll keep her busy, this thread has almost 1500 views so far!! So much love for the silly old bat (snorkels that is... Much love for you too xellil lol)


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## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

xellil said:


> Oh that is so sweet and I'm very sorry you missed out on the dog park. We had a gorgeous day here today so I hope Rick got rebel out some


No worries! We've got the handy dandy treadmill at home for just such occasions! And it was COLD at the dog park!



Sprocket said:


> We took the dogs on a hike too but I had my iPhone. I must have checked this thread 100 times today
> 
> I read Res post on the way home and I said "oh good!!". Drew asked what was wrong so I told him what happen to Snorkels and that I'd been worried all day.


Nick used to have a blackberry but when it broke we both just got free phones so they are just basic. I would have been checking all day as well!



NewYorkDogue said:


> I posted here last fall in a panic because I had given Mateo a beef rib, left the room for a couple minutes... when I came back the whole thing was gone. Yep, he swallowed it, whole. All the kind folks here said not to panic, but just watch him; things were probably going to be ok...
> 
> Well, everything WAS ok; he digested it and there was no stomach upset whatsoever. Of course, at that time he was maybe 65 pounds or so...
> 
> ...


That's part of the reason I won't give them to Buck. He is a gulper too. He is also a power chewer and something straight like that would make him try to bite through it. Dude, on the other hand, I would give them to.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

NewYorkDogue said:


> I posted here last fall in a panic because I had given Mateo a beef rib, left the room for a couple minutes... when I came back the whole thing was gone. Yep, he swallowed it, whole. All the kind folks here said not to panic, but just watch him; things were probably going to be ok...
> 
> Well, everything WAS ok; he digested it and there was no stomach upset whatsoever. Of course, at that time he was maybe 65 pounds or so...
> 
> ...


you know i was pretty cavalier about it until the venison ribs - Snorkels eats chicken heads pretty much whole, and the same with chicken necks. But some things even she can't manage.

She COULD have digested them eventually if they hadn't been poking the crap out of her stomach lining. They were at least half digested when they pulled them out.

And I'm glad Mateo didn't have any issues! I still think MOST of the time things will all be well. This was more like a freak accident, and I'm not hesitating to give her bones (just not single venison ribs).


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Herzo said:


> Well she is a diva you know. I told you she would live to make you worry again, I had a feeling. Sometimes that just happens to me.
> 
> She will be up and going in no time, she's like Maddie a tough old girl. Get some rest tonight, and let us know how she is tomorrow. Oh and tonight I went out to feed the horses and Maddie came back in and got to the 10 lbs, of white flour I just bought. Husband is re doing the pantry and we had put the flour to low, it was all over her face and she was like her tongue was stuck. Thank goodness she will chew up deer ribs though....Snorkels take notice.


We learned to put everything up out of her reach, even if it was in a closed cabinet. After she had raisin bran, and cheerios, and oatmeal... we are slow learners.

Sounds like Maddie with the hound dog nose might be a similar sniffer-outer


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

Wow, guess I missed a lot! Glad to hear all turned out well for Snorkels and she is fine... I could have been your support for the endoscopey as my female Cayenne had to have one too, and I was a wreck..I never got the support of the forum as I was afraid to post about it here. Dogs are incredibly resilient animals and I'm amazed everyday at what they can endure! 

Don't ever beat yourself up about what you feel could have been prevented, as we truly never know!


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

whiteleo said:


> Wow, guess I missed a lot! Glad to hear all turned out well for Snorkels and she is fine... I could have been your support for the endoscopey as my female Cayenne had to have one too, and I was a wreck..I never got the support of the forum as I was afraid to post about it here. Dogs are incredibly resilient animals and I'm amazed everyday at what they can endure!
> 
> Don't ever beat yourself up about what you feel could have been prevented, as we truly never know!


what did she have it for? Were you afraid if you posted here it would jinx her, or that people would berate you for giving her bones?


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

xellil said:


> what did she have it for? Were you afraid if you posted here it would jinx her, or that people would berate you for giving her bones?


She got a turkey neck stuck in her esophogus (spelling) she tried for almost 2 hrs to bring it up but was getting weak, took her to the E.R vet here and they wanted to do surgery, I wouldn't let them and had them keep her comfortable overnite so I could consult with my vet in the A.M. He had me take her south so they could do an emergency endoscopey, they talked about all the things that could go wrong, ripping and tearing of the lining but all turned out O.K. She was gone for 2 days...

This is why I cut my turkey necks now...


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

whiteleo said:


> She got a turkey neck stuck in her esophogus (spelling) she tried for almost 2 hrs to bring it up but was getting weak, took her to the E.R vet here and they wanted to do surgery, I wouldn't let them and had them keep her comfortable overnite so I could consult with my vet in the A.M. He had me take her south so they could do an emergency endoscopey, they talked about all the things that could go wrong, ripping and tearing of the lining but all turned out O.K. She was gone for 2 days...
> 
> This is why I cut my turkey necks now...


Wow. I'm so sorry. And so glad everything worked out. i know for sure an endoscopy is alot better than surgery, and yes they told me all the horrible things that could go wrong, also. 

surprised the ER vet wouldn't do the endoscopy.


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

xellil said:


> Wow. I'm so sorry. And so glad everything worked out. i know for sure an endoscopy is alot better than surgery, and yes they told me all the horrible things that could go wrong, also.
> 
> surprised the ER vet wouldn't do the endoscopy.


They didn't have the retractable tools, this is why they wanted to open her up...NO WAY!


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

whiteleo said:


> They didn't have the retractable tools, this is why they wanted to open her up...NO WAY!


That's why we got sent from one ER place to another - no equipment. I was a little irked, as it was an ER vet after all and i don't think that procedure is rare.

I'm sorry you didn't post about it. It really made me feel better to just tell people what was going on.


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

It was a couple years ago and this forum has changed immensely over that time...


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## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

Been meaning to ask you guys if the vets gave you any grief for feeding bones?


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

when do you get to take snorkels home?


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

MollyWoppy said:


> Been meaning to ask you guys if the vets gave you any grief for feeding bones?


My vet knew I fed raw, the HUGE clinic I took Cayenne to in Lynnwood, not one person said anything about feeding raw..


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

She is home! they let me take her out of the cage at 5am to pee and I wouldn't let them take her back, so we sat in the waiting room until they released her at 7:30.

the vet that operated, when we sat down and talked about it, pulled the bag of bones out of her pocket and said "THIS is what you fed your dog." I didn't say anything back - I just asked if I could keep them for a photo and she tossed the bag on the table. So the disapproval was definitely there.

the first ER vet was very kind, she patted me on the back and said I could not blame myself, she's done the same thing, etc etc.

Edited to add: I'm not mad at the vet that operated. she spent over two hours trying to get the bones out. She was a trooper and stuck with it and succeeded. So I give her a little leeway for being ticked she had to do it in the first place.


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## monkeys23 (Dec 8, 2010)

Wow, glad Snorkles is okay!


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## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

I would have said, "Yes, it is what you should be feeding YOUR dog too... just make sure you don't separate them..." Hahahaha

Glad to hear she is at home!


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## Sapphire-Light (Aug 8, 2010)

Nice to hear she is ok :wink:, what a scare that was. 

I can't image how she did gulp the ribs hole


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## schtuffy (May 17, 2010)

Geez, I am way late to this thread..but I'm really glad to hear Snorkels is doing okay! How is she feeling today? You must have been worried sick...I would have been worried sick! She's my dog too :wink:


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## Khan (Jan 17, 2010)

Silly Snorkels!! Glad she's OK and home! Khan sends slobbers, and Shelby says she knows how Snorkels feels. Although last weekends ER visit was only for boneless chicken, Shelby says sometimes you just can't help yourself!!
I also got to see and hear the disapproval from everyone and that was just with boneless raw chicken!!


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Khan said:


> Silly Snorkels!! Glad she's OK and home! Khan sends slobbers, and Shelby says she knows how Snorkels feels. Although last weekends ER visit was only for boneless chicken, Shelby says sometimes you just can't help yourself!!
> I also got to see and hear the disapproval from everyone and that was just with boneless raw chicken!!


Why did you have to go to the ER for boneless chicken? I assume everything is ok now?

And i know what you mean - when Snorkels stayed overnight they said she could have tiny bits of food every three hours. They said would hand feed her - until I brought in her liver and raw pork. then they let me do it. 

No one said "you just almost killed your dog with bones (that wasn't winning any converts to raw either I'm sure) and you're still giving her raw food?" but I could feel that vibe.


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## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

How much did the procedure cost? Was it cheaper than surgery would have been?

If you want to give Snorkles some chew bones, I've seen buffalo ribs that are completely whole. They are probably two inches around and two feet long. If she swallowed it there would still be a foot sticking out so no problems there! :wink:


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## tem_sat (Jun 20, 2010)

xellil said:


> Why did you have to go to the ER for boneless chicken? I assume everything is ok now?
> 
> And i know what you mean - when Snorkels stayed overnight they said she could have tiny bits of food every three hours. They said would hand feed her - until I brought in her liver and raw pork. then they let me do it.
> 
> No one said "you just almost killed your dog with bones (that wasn't winning any converts to raw either I'm sure) and you're still giving her raw food?" but I could feel that vibe.


I am very happy that Snorkels is home and is recovering. I find it amusing that the vet techs have no problem expressing anal glands, but are uncomfortable feeding a bit of liver and raw pork...


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Caty M said:


> How much did the procedure cost? Was it cheaper than surgery would have been?
> 
> If you want to give Snorkles some chew bones, I've seen buffalo ribs that are completely whole. They are probably two inches around and two feet long. If she swallowed it there would still be a foot sticking out so no problems there! :wink:


those would be fantastic! i'll look for those. That's exactly what she needs - two foot ribs, or she's going to be stuck with turkey necks and lambs head forever.

The whole thing start to finish was a little over $2000, and yes I think it was alot cheaper than if she had had the surgery. That would have added at least another couple of thousand, I think - plus all the aftercare stuff.


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## Herzo (Feb 5, 2011)

Glad she's home and doing good. I'm sure the not feeding the liver thing was a statement, could be wrong though. I guess they weren't to bad could have been much worse.

Snorkels and Maddie could be two peas in a pod as far as food goes however Maddie seems to chew things up good, so far anyway. Here's keeping my fingers crossed. They could be the red food machines. :heh:


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Herzo said:


> Snorkels and Maddie could be two peas in a pod as far as food goes however Maddie seems to chew things up good, so far anyway. Here's keeping my fingers crossed. They could be the red food machines. :heh:


oh goodness. I hope you don't have one also. Although it sounds kind of like you do.

I have to give Snorkels credit - she won't eat what's not edible. And she doesn't eat poop although she loves rolling in fresh diarrhea. So it could be worse - I could be keeping the whole house three feet off the floor. OR she could be a tall dog.


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## frogdog (Aug 10, 2011)

Xellil, I am so glad to hear Snorkels is doing better...what a relief. I haven't been on here much lately and missed this thread until now.
I was speed reading through all the post trying to find out everything turned out ok for sweet Snorkels. One thing for sure...there was a lot of love and support sent your way...sorry I was late. Hope you and her are resting comfortably now.


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## Khan (Jan 17, 2010)

xellil said:


> Why did you have to go to the ER for boneless chicken? I assume everything is ok now?
> 
> And i know what you mean - when Snorkels stayed overnight they said she could have tiny bits of food every three hours. They said would hand feed her - until I brought in her liver and raw pork. then they let me do it.
> 
> No one said "you just almost killed your dog with bones (that wasn't winning any converts to raw either I'm sure) and you're still giving her raw food?" but I could feel that vibe.


Well we didn't go because of the chicken. Earlier in the day when Ron was walking Shelby and his Big size 13 shoe got tangled up! So later that evening I thought she had internal bleeding from being kicked. Turns out she had gotten into the box of chicken I was defrosting in the garage!! Ya, most expensive piece of chicken in recent history!!! LOL!


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Khan said:


> Well we didn't go because of the chicken. Earlier in the day when Ron was walking Shelby and his Big size 13 shoe got tangled up! So later that evening I thought she had internal bleeding from being kicked. Turns out she had gotten into the box of chicken I was defrosting in the garage!! Ya, most expensive piece of chicken in recent history!!! LOL!


Now THAT is hilarious!! HAHAHA! 

That's like when we took our foster dog in for x-rays because we thought he had eaten a popsicle stick, and after a $400 ER visit we found the popsicle stick under the couch.


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## Khan (Jan 17, 2010)

xellil said:


> Now THAT is hilarious!! HAHAHA!
> 
> That's like when we took our foster dog in for x-rays because we thought he had eaten a popsicle stick, and after a $400 ER visit we found the popsicle stick under the couch.


OK, That made me laugh out loud!! 
Thankfully ours was only 150 bucks! She was HUGE when we took her in. Her skin felt like it was stretched so tight it was crazy! When they rushed her to the back she was shaking, which is probably what made her hork up apparently a HUGE amount of chicken. They came out and asked if she could have gotten into any raw chicken because she threw up about 2 full thighs! I about died when they told me that. Then they about died when I told them that she eats raw. In fact they told me that the next day I should give her cooked chicken and rice since her system would be outta wack.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Good lord. It's amazing what pigs they can be, given the chance. Have to eat every single bite! And now like snorkels rib bones they can say "don't feed raw - you should see what happened to this giant dog because of raw chicken!"

I am ashamed to say that several of our ER visits with Snorkels were because she got into food and ate way too much. But they never recommended homecooked - only Science Diet.


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## Herzo (Feb 5, 2011)

xellil said:


> oh goodness. I hope you don't have one also. Although it sounds kind of like you do.
> 
> I have to give Snorkels credit - she won't eat what's not edible. And she doesn't eat poop although she loves rolling in fresh diarrhea. So it could be worse - I could be keeping the whole house three feet off the floor. OR she could be a tall dog.


Well lets see Maddie eats pounds of horse poop at least I don't have one that will eat dog poo. She will get into the garbage and eat kleenex, panty liners if they are in there you name it if it's in the garbage it's fair game. So all garbage now has to be put up we need to get ones with lids on them now.

Sometimes when I'm picking up dog poop I will get ones that are all attached by hair, that would be mine as I have kind of long hair and when she gets into the garbage in the bath room, well it has my hair in there from combing.

One day I went out to feed the horses, if she knows there is something she might like she will come back in the house. Hubby was in the living room starting a fire then when I came back in I'm like what is Maddie eating, she had gotten the sausage off the counter and was just hogging down right behind him on the rug in the living room. I had to pull the foam plat it was on out of her mouth she had already downed the sausage. So that was supper. I made meat loaf with out pork sausage in it that night.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

OH NO!! That's crazy! That's worse than a puppy. 

I know everyone here is about a billion times better housekeeper than me including you, but I try to look on the bright side - if it weren't for Snorkels we'd have dirty dishes and food laying around. If I had Maddie I might actually have a clean house 

I guess hubby was really concentrating on the fire, huh?


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## Herzo (Feb 5, 2011)

Well he is a man, sorry to all you men out there I don't mean to bash you. Just some are more observant than others. And I don't think so I'm not a very good house keeper.... Hate it........ and we have things torn up right now, re doing the pantry. WE have been working on this house for over ten years and it will never be done... sigh.....oh well.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

BTW, Maddie looks great in that photo. And very innocent. You'd never think she's be digging around in trash cans!


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## Herzo (Feb 5, 2011)

I know doesn't she. I was going to put "yes I will eat it" under it but I don't know how, I'm lucky I can change my sig and that takes me a while to do.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

You can use this if you like - just right click and save it to your computer, or link to it on my site:










http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a...smzJs1aA9vPhQ/cC/f=0/ps=50/r=0/rx=550/ry=400/

I'm pretty primitive when it comes to this stuff myself; I am amazed at what people do with photos (and how they get such good photos in the first place.)


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## Herzo (Feb 5, 2011)

Ok so I did it thanks. Yes I know I have to get a picture sight so I can fix some of mine, can't decide which one to use.


Well I thought I saved it but now I can't find it. I absolutely s--k at this computer.


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## LucyinSweden (Feb 20, 2012)

I totally missed all of this, but holy moly am I glad that Snorkels is okay! And here I was, thinking of giving Lucy pork ribs....


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

LucyinSweden said:


> I totally missed all of this, but holy moly am I glad that Snorkels is okay! And here I was, thinking of giving Lucy pork ribs....


You can give her pork ribs - I've done it several times with Snorkels. The only thing is you need to leave several of them attached. My brain-dead moment was separating them.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Herzo said:


> Ok so I did it thanks. Yes I know I have to get a picture sight so I can fix some of mine, can't decide which one to use.
> 
> 
> Well I thought I saved it but now I can't find it. I absolutely s--k at this computer.


You can just click here and use this link also in your signature, i believe, without saving it to your computer.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a...smzJs1aA9vPhQ/cC/f=0/ps=50/r=0/rx=550/ry=400/


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## LucyinSweden (Feb 20, 2012)

Silly snorkels. I can't believe she swallowed that giant bone!


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

LucyinSweden said:


> Silly snorkels. I can't believe she swallowed that giant bone!


even my pug is not that silly.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

magicre said:


> even my pug is not that silly.


Or his owner is not as silly! I'm sure you would never hand over a venison rib to Bubba and think "oh he'll just pick the meat off."


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

i have handed them single emu ribs, which are thin, i have handed venison ribs, separate. i have handed pork ribs separate. i have handed beef ribs separate, lamb and goat ribs.

all separate. 

the only non edible ones are the beef ribs and i am surprised now that my dogs are still alive.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

magicre said:


> i have handed them single emu ribs, which are thin, i have handed venison ribs, separate. i have handed pork ribs separate. i have handed beef ribs separate, lamb and goat ribs.
> 
> all separate.
> 
> the only non edible ones are the beef ribs and i am surprised now that my dogs are still alive.


you know, Snorkels hasn't eaten all those but she's eaten lots of single pork and beef ribs. Frankly, I'm still not sure I see the difference in those and venison ribs. 

She swallows chicken heads whole, which are wider than beef ribs. And the venison ribs were as long or longer than beef and pork ribs. They weren't quite as wide as beef ribs but they were at least as wide as pork ribs. 

she always tries to crunch them up, and with pork ribs I just take them away when she starts succeeding. She never succeeds with beef ribs.

Really, I would say if bubba hasn't swallowed them yet, he won't. So you are right - he's not as silly as Snorkels!


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

And tomorrow she'll get a bone. She just had the first loose poop I've seen since I've had her, except for the giardia. Plus, she's been a week without a teeth cleaning.

I'm actually looking forward to it. It's not felt right with her just eating boneless and a little eggshell. Surely her stomach is healed by now. And next week Parker gets his first real bone. Might be an interesting week!


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Well, now she's got full-blown diarrhea. Just squirted out about a quarter of a cup of liquid.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

i honestly think those bones landed wrong.....because my pug has never choked on a bone...that is edible...

i do think that venison ribs are a harder bone than let's say, pork ribs....he takes pork ribs easily now...he didn't when we first started...and what i mean by 'take', is that they are edible for him.

venison bones he could not eat, although he could eat the ends...same with goat ribs..

beef ribs i never worried about...the bone is very hard and he doesn't even try, but he will spend hours getting the last piece of whatever off.

with most of his food, he horks but not as much as he did when we first started, which is why i haven't yet gone over to feeding frozen....which as i said in another thread, i'm not so sure about...

'course, bubba is not snorkels..who tries to run away right after surgery LOL and fights even when still groggy from sedation....she IS something.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

you know Snorkels IS alot like Bubba - that's how she eats ribs. Beef - no way, but with pork ribs she can eventually start making headway. She's never swallowed either one.

I think maybe this was just really a freak thing, the moon was wrong or something. I would really hate for you to stop giving Bubba what he enjoys so much because Snorkels was an idiot.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

well, the little s**t just found a Cold-Eze from Lord knows where. 

She didn't swallow it - she removed it from the wrapper and was just chewing away on it. The only reason I found her is I heard the noise. 

I am not, not, not up for another ER visit this weekend. I might just have to shoot myself. I think she'll be ok, it wasn't sugar free and I don't think the little bit of zinc she got will hurt her.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

ok. this is enough snorkels. i'm not as young as i once was.

xellil. this dog is driving me to drink.

i won't stop giving bubba edible pork ribs singly, because they are a pretty soft bone by comparison to other animal ribs....but i can see not giving him single emu ribs or venison ribs...

because i do believe this was just a freak accident, i really do.......but it may take a little bit to stabilise my hands after last weekend...ya know?


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## Donna Little (May 31, 2011)

xellil said:


> well, the little s**t just found a Cold-Eze from Lord knows where.
> 
> She didn't swallow it - she removed it from the wrapper and was just chewing away on it. The only reason I found her is I heard the noise.
> 
> I am not, not, not up for another ER visit this weekend. I might just have to shoot myself. I think she'll be ok, it wasn't sugar free and I don't think the little bit of zinc she got will hurt her.


Do you need to take her to see a shrink? She seems a little suicidal... Or maybe she's trying to kill you. With fear, worry and financial ruin.... Evil mini Dachshund strikes Texas...:heh:


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Donna Little said:


> Do you need to take her to see a shrink? She seems a little suicidal... Or maybe she's trying to kill you. With fear, worry and financial ruin.... Evil mini Dachshund strikes Texas...:heh:


you know, Snorkels has a HUGE saving grace. She unwraps everything. If it's not edible, it's not worth her time. Which is why we are not at the ER right now - I don't have to worry if there were 10 Cold-Eze and i caught her eating the last one. One wrapper, one Cold-Eze.

so she's not trying to kill me all at once, just slowly over time. Hubby just told her if she has to go back to the ER he's going to take her to the dog pound. Maybe that will straighten her out for awhile.


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## Donna Little (May 31, 2011)

xellil said:


> you know, Snorkels has a HUGE saving grace. She unwraps everything. If it's not edible, it's not worth her time. Which is why we are not at the ER right now - I don't have to worry if there were 10 Cold-Eze and i caught her eating the last one. One wrapper, one Cold-Eze.
> 
> so she's not trying to kill me all at once, just slowly over time. Hubby just told her if she has to go back to the ER he's going to take her to the dog pound. Maybe that will straighten her out for awhile.


Tiny Torturer! That's what she is! 
Well, that's the best way to handle it. Threaten her into submission. Let's just hope she speaks English and understands the words coming out of his mouth....


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## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

xellil said:


>


Hey, I love your compressor! 
(and the pup as well of course).

And, I have to say a big thank you! This thread has been very informative and timely for me. Next week I will be looking after 2 pugs for 10 days. The younger one is a chronic gulper. The old one was very fat, 30lbs. He is now 24lbs, but his main drive in life is food, food, food. His stomach thinks his throat's been cut.
So, I'm going to need to have my wits about me. Been spoilt with Mol's who chews her food like an old lady at a tea party (thanks xellil).
It'd gut me if I had to spend $2000 on someone elses dog because I screwed up.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

MollyWoppy said:


> It'd gut me if I had to spend $2000 on someone elses dog because I screwed up.


Would it be awful of me to say I was almost glad it was Snorkels and not Parker so I wasn't wasting money on someone else's dog? I know that's probably a terrible thing to even think.

And I was looking at Molly's photo earlier and thinking she looks like she eats like Rebel - holding it just so, pick pick pick.


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## Herzo (Feb 5, 2011)

Thanks Pennie must have a relation to you. Yea I like the way Mollie eats as well, that's how Turtle does it she's real good about chewing her bones. i can even feed her the tips off of chicken wings and she will chew them.

Maddie would not have taken the paper off she would have eaten that as well.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

MollyWoppy said:


> Hey, I love your compressor!
> (and the pup as well of course).
> 
> And, I have to say a big thank you! This thread has been very informative and timely for me. Next week I will be looking after 2 pugs for 10 days. The younger one is a chronic gulper. The old one was very fat, 30lbs. He is now 24lbs, but his main drive in life is food, food, food. His stomach thinks his throat's been cut.
> ...


every pug forum i belong to, penny, says the same thing about pugs, so i'm going to take that leap of faith and believe them.

i truly believe that what happened with snorkels was a freak accident.

in the two years i've fed this stupid stupid eater and he really is one....nothing to do with his intelligence, just the way he eats....he has never choked on bone nor has it laid wrong when he swallowed drumsticks whole.

and i think that's what happened....the bone landed wrong in the gut.

he has choked on fat as his digestive juices try to break down the entire piece of skin or whatever....and it becomes elongated and then he horks up this long, mucusy piece of 'it looks nothing like it did when it went into his mouth'.....

i've actually pulled them from his mouth and scissored as he was trying to eat it, so it would be a shorter piece...

but bone? no. 

so whilst of course, you should be careful with puggies....even i am calming down now from snorkels huge event.....because they can only eat so much....

bubba is a little over what he should weigh which we are attempting to fix now by lessening his morning food and increasing his afternoon food so he can start learning how to eat bigger pieces at one sitting.

i don't think i do either dog any favours cutting up their meat. hopefully he'll learn to appreciate food instead of inhaling it. if not, we'll forget about the one feeding a day notion and go back to two meals a day....and i'll cut up his meat for him, the little baby. 

malia, on the other hand, is the perfect eater.


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