# Acana Ash Levels



## Jacksons Mom (Jun 13, 2010)

In case any one was interested - I emailed Champion about the new formulas and ash levels. 

Here is what I got;

The ash levels for the new Regional’s are as follows:
Wild Prairie- 7%
Pacifica-8%
Grasslands- 9%
Ranchlands-9%

The ash content for our ACANA Lamb & Okanagan Apple is 9%, our Duck & Bartlett Pear as well as our Chicken & Burbank Potato have levels of 7.5%.


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## Kat (Jul 12, 2011)

Would this be the levels for both the dog and cat formulas, or just the dog formulas?


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## skadoosh (Jun 11, 2012)

Are these levels high?


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## Kibblelady (Jul 13, 2012)

No, those levels are average.


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## skadoosh (Jun 11, 2012)

When would you consider the levels to be high? Not to sound completely ignorant but what is ash and what can be the negative effects of too high levels of it?


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## Kibblelady (Jul 13, 2012)

Ash is basically if you take some of the food, burn it down, ash is what is left that will not burn. It is comprised mostly of minerals and inert things that cannot burn away. High levels of ash usually indicate high mineral levels (such as calcium, potassium etc)

Here you go Why Is There Ash in Your Dog's Food?


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## monster'sdad (Jul 29, 2012)

Kibblelady said:


> No, those levels are average.


According to whom? Considering these new foods are chock full of split peas, field peas (beans) and lentils, these ash numbers are unimpressive. These ingredients have about 15 times the protein of potatoes, so you can see how the foods have been cheapened.

The ash levels shows you the quality of the protein used is lower than it used to be. I would bet the amount of protein from animal sources is now just 65% - 75%, really very mediocre. I guess the new owners have found a way to squeeze extra profit out of the food by stuffing the foods with peas, beans and lentils. The fiber is also up quite a bit.

Dr. Tim's can make foods like Pursuit (30% protein) and Momentum (35% protein) with well over 90% protein from animal sources with 6% or less in ash. That is a well made product. The non-meat protein source, brown rice is only 2% protein, nothing compared to peas, beans and lentils.

These new Acana formulas are a real sell-out. Most consumer will still be in denial though.


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## Kibblelady (Jul 13, 2012)

monster'sdad said:


> According to whom? .


According to typical ash levels in commercial foods that I have been seeing. The food I use has max 6.5% but I was under the impression that was not typical nor average. You do realize above I said average right?


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## Kibblelady (Jul 13, 2012)

Just an FYI to the thread both Dr. Tim's food and the food I feed are made at Ohio Pet Foods as is Annamaet, Canine Caviar, Blackwood and a number of others. From my understanding 6.5% ash would be common for a food coming out of this plant, just an FYI to tuck away.


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## skadoosh (Jun 11, 2012)

monster'sdad said:


> According to whom? Considering these new foods are chock full of split peas, field peas (beans) and lentils, these ash numbers are unimpressive. These ingredients have about 15 times the protein of potatoes, so you can see how the foods have been cheapened.
> 
> The ash levels shows you the quality of the protein used is lower than it used to be. I would bet the amount of protein from animal sources is now just 65% - 75%, really very mediocre. I guess the new owners have found a way to squeeze extra profit out of the food by stuffing the foods with peas, beans and lentils. The fiber is also up quite a bit.
> 
> ...


What food would you recommend then?


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## SaharaNight Boxers (Jun 28, 2011)

monster'sdad said:


> According to whom? Considering these new foods are chock full of split peas, field peas (beans) and lentils, these ash numbers are unimpressive. These ingredients have about 15 times the protein of potatoes, so you can see how the foods have been cheapened.
> 
> The ash levels shows you the quality of the protein used is lower than it used to be. I would bet the amount of protein from animal sources is now just 65% - 75%, really very mediocre. I guess the new owners have found a way to squeeze extra profit out of the food by stuffing the foods with peas, beans and lentils. The fiber is also up quite a bit.
> 
> ...


Are you just another Dr. Tim advocate?


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## DaViking (Sep 27, 2011)

monster'sdad said:


> These ingredients have about 15 times the protein of potatoes,


Not once processed. Legumes comes in at high single digits, potatoes low single digits processed. Nitrogen measurement from neither can't be that high unless the formula is filled up with several legumes. In comparison protein from white rice processed comes in at 7%, yellow corn 3%.


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## Kibblelady (Jul 13, 2012)

I was recently reading the original Dr. Tim thread this morning and I was upset for him...( I am not done reading the thread yet though..). I know many people think they come off well but reading that was like watching someone walk through glass  It was not nice... His defensiveness IMO became warranted. IMO this is a good product because I know how kibbles are made and the plant he is having it made at, I know how much money he is spending to have it made...it is not cheap at all. The insinuations that he was an ignorant vet or did something sub par was not correct IMO as his product meets what is a very digested and assimilated product that is of very good quality...... I think people were a bit harsh. In looking at many things from this man online he appears, just like us, to discuss kibble and nutrition and yeah wants to talk about his product as he is proud of it.... I don't see many company owners online talking about their product, it is very unusual and I for one would like to take advantage of his knowledge of many things that are not well known about the formulation and production of a kibble product. Bragging about a kibble product imo is no different than people bragging about their own diet be it kibble or raw. It isn't hurting anything. Isn't there room for everyone here? 
Just my opinion....


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## DaViking (Sep 27, 2011)

Kibblelady said:


> I was recently reading the original Dr. Tim thread this morning and I was upset for him...( I am not done reading the thread yet though..). I know many people think they come off well but reading that was like watching someone walk through glass  It was not nice... His defensiveness IMO became warranted. IMO this is a good product because I know how kibbles are made and the plant he is having it made at, I know how much money he is spending to have it made...it is not cheap at all. The insinuations that he was an ignorant vet or did something sub par was not correct IMO as his product meets what is a very digested and assimilated product that is of very good quality...... I think people were a bit harsh. In looking at many things from this man online he appears, just like us, to discuss kibble and nutrition and yeah wants to talk about his product as he is proud of it.... I don't see many company owners online talking about their product, it is very unusual and I for one would like to take advantage of his knowledge of many things that are not well known about the formulation and production of a kibble product. Bragging about a kibble product imo is no different than people bragging about their own diet be it kibble or raw. It isn't hurting anything. Isn't there room for everyone here?
> Just my opinion....


Well put.

But, did I miss something? I was slapped on the hand for standing up for Dr. Tim (not everyone else that endorses it) in a thread that was since deleted on another forum. Was there one here to?


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## Kibblelady (Jul 13, 2012)

DaViking said:


> Well put.
> 
> But, did I miss something? I was slapped on the hand for standing up for Dr. Tim (not everyone else that endorses it) in a thread that was since deleted on another forum. Was there one here to?


Yeah, I had done a Google search for "Dr Tims pet food" and found a link to a very long thread on this board I'll PM it to you.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

Ahhh yes, I think I remember that one.

Dr. Tim does seem like a nice guy who is pretty damn smart...wish he posted here still...


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## monster'sdad (Jul 29, 2012)

meggels said:


> Ahhh yes, I think I remember that one.
> 
> Dr. Tim does seem like a nice guy who is pretty damn smart...wish he posted here still...


It is ironic that people lashed out at Dr. Tim because if they realized how many pro trainers in a variety of events used his products they would smarten up. Also, his foods are the highest rated by actual users on this very website, 8.8/10. Acana is pretty mediocre by the way, 6.7/10, tied with Petsmart's house brand. That speaks.

His foods are without question some of the best on the market. Tested, well made, pro-quality. I believe he had 3 teams finish the Iditarod this year in the top ten, including first place.

Maybe Dr. Hunt should have dressed his dogs up like sushi chefs and called the food Chicken A La Veg, or lied to his customers like Champion does. How about that?


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

So are you not a fan of Fromm lol?

What about foods like Precise, Verus, Nutrisource? I started a thread on manufacturers in this section, would be curious to hear your thoughts lol.


I have Abbie on a bag of Acana right now, the chicken based one (orange bag) and she's doing meh.

She's doing really well on Earthborn's Great Plains Feast and Fromm's Chicken a la Veg and Pork and Applesauce though.


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

If his food is so good then I would see it at some of the better boutique stores here in the PNW but I have never seen it anywhere up here.............


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## monster'sdad (Jul 29, 2012)

DaViking said:


> Not once processed. Legumes comes in at high single digits, potatoes low single digits processed. Nitrogen measurement from neither can't be that high unless the formula is filled up with several legumes. In comparison protein from white rice processed comes in at 7%, yellow corn 3%.


I will defer to Dr. Greg Aldrich, PHD on this point:

"Pulses are grown on each of the continents with arable land and in about every type of climate and soil. There are at least 11 primary pulses recognized and a multitude of varieties or accessions within each group. Global production exceeds 40 million metric ton annually, with India, Canada, Brazil and China being the largest producers. The dry beans make up nearly half the annual production, peas about 25% of the mix, chickpeas around 20% and lentils less than 10% (FAO, 2006).

These ingredients contain about twice as much protein as grains (approximately 20-25%) and have been described by some as "the poor man's meat" because of their quality amino acid profile. As it relates to cat and dog nutrition, the sulfur amino acids, methionine and (or) cysteine, are the first-limiting amino acids.

With the exception of chickpeas, most pulses are low fat. However, the fat is rich in the nutritionally important linoleic (C18:2n6) acid with small amounts of omega-3 linolenic (C18:3n3) acid as well. The ash (mineral) content of pulses is two to three times that of common grains like wheat and corn, but relative to protein level, pulses carry half to a third of the "ash penalty" compared to rendered animal protein meals."


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## Kibblelady (Jul 13, 2012)

Monster, I love anything that comes out of OPF lol I have used Blackwood, Dave's Simply the Best, Annamaet and Lifes Abundance, Verus as well. (realize I have had many dogs in my home over the last 15 years, hence the various diets.) all these foods are made at OPF as well as Regal, Canine Caviar and a number of others (notice no recalled foods in there) I usually will look for a food out of this plant and much prefer it. I become frustrated if I cannot find one. I wish Verus included probiotics :/ I am really struck by how many foods choose to manufacture elsewhere sometimes.

Monster do you know the comparison of cost for manufactures using other plants instead of OPF? Like is OPFs more costly than other plants? I know the ingredients they source are.

As far as the original topic I believe most if not all of the foods coming out of OPF have the same ash levels or very close. Each of the foods listed are very similar in formulations, so much so I can usually pick them out when I simply see the ingredient list (I did this with Dr. Tims lol) Knowing they have a winning formulation and cook rate I am stunned when people refer to these foods as "sub par" and well... I'll leave it at that.


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## Kibblelady (Jul 13, 2012)

whiteleo said:


> If his food is so good then I would see it at some of the better boutique stores here in the PNW but I have never seen it anywhere up here.............


I imagine you have not seen Blackwood over the years? They had a limited shipping area for the longest time also, I am not sure if that is changing now but all foods are not always available in all areas.


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## monster'sdad (Jul 29, 2012)

whiteleo said:


> If his food is so good then I would see it at some of the better boutique stores here in the PNW but I have never seen it anywhere up here.............


You will. It will hit the entire northeast through Zeigler's in the next month or so. He told me he had to delay the retail launch outside the midwest until he finished the printed bags. He was using plain white bags and the distributors wanted something flashy for the stores. Typical for the east and west coast consumer. I imagine he will get a distributor for the west soon.

You can buy 44lb bags on Petflow for a song. That is how I buy it. Free shipping, no tax. One month of Pursuit or Momentum and you will be sold. Even going to a 25% fat food like Momentum is a breeze.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

I don't necessarily judge a food based solely on availability....

Acana and Orijen are just now getting easier to find for me locally....Fromm is still not that easy to find...Nutrisource and Earthborn are others that are getting shelf space in stores now too...


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## monster'sdad (Jul 29, 2012)

Kibblelady said:


> Monster, I love anything that comes out of OPF lol I have used Blackwood, Dave's Simply the Best, Annamaet and Lifes Abundance, Verus as well. (realize I have had many dogs in my home over the last 15 years, hence the various diets.) all these foods are made at OPF as well as Regal, Canine Caviar and a number of others (notice no recalled foods in there) I usually will look for a food out of this plant and much prefer it. I become frustrated if I cannot find one. I wish Verus included probiotics :/ I am really struck by how many foods choose to manufacture elsewhere sometimes.
> 
> Monster do you know the comparison of cost for manufactures using other plants instead of OPF? Like is OPFs more costly than other plants? I know the ingredients they source are.
> 
> As far as the original topic I believe most if not all of the foods coming out of OPF have the same ash levels or very close. Each of the foods listed are very similar in formulations, so much so I can usually pick them out when I simply see the ingredient list (I did this with Dr. Tims lol) Knowing they have a winning formulation and cook rate I am stunned when people refer to these foods as "sub par" and well... I'll leave it at that.



Higher costs because the food is made at a much slower rate. People that refer to Dr. Tim's as subpar are also the same people that believe their dogs should be fed like people and fall for lots of marketing junk. It is The Honest Kitchen crowd, that is what I call it.

I am using Dr. Tim's Pursuit and Momentum and would use Annamaet Ultra second. Most foods cannot stand up to these when dogs are training, whelping or under stress.


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## Jacksons Mom (Jun 13, 2010)

I'm kinda disappointed that Acana is changing the formula and making the bags smaller AND raising the price.

He does very well on most Acana formulas (except the chicken based ones - lots of poop on those) so I'm hesitant to switch. But not sure I want to continue paying the prices, as I'm not entirely sure it's worth it. From what I'm understanding, if there's higher ash, the quality of meat may not necessarily be the greatest? So I'm thinking is it really worth it to pay almost $20 for a 5lb bag of food?

I was looking into Earthborn because the price difference really is huge, and it'd be easier on my wallet, (but again, most are a bit 'up there' in ash content), but then I've also wanted to try Canine Caviar grain free foods, but the price scares me (it's like $40 for a 12lb bag!!) but essentially, it's about the same for what I'm paying for Acana, but with much lower ash (5.6%, I think). I just really think the protein/fat ratios would work well with Jackson, as well as the more simple ingredient list, and I also like that their lowest ash I can find in a grain-free food. So I MAY try a 4lb bag just to give it a go. However the 599 calorie/cup confuses the hell out of me. That's a LOT. Are they using a different kind of system to determine calories?


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

Brittany, what about Natures Variety LID formulas?


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## DaViking (Sep 27, 2011)

monster'sdad said:


> I will defer to Dr. Greg Aldrich, PHD on this point:
> 
> "Pulses are grown on each of the continents with arable land and in about every type of climate and soil. There are at least 11 primary pulses recognized and a multitude of varieties or accessions within each group. Global production exceeds 40 million metric ton annually, with India, Canada, Brazil and China being the largest producers. The dry beans make up nearly half the annual production, peas about 25% of the mix, chickpeas around 20% and lentils less than 10% (FAO, 2006).
> 
> ...


That's taken from the industry website.
20% to 26% is correct in their raw form, which often is the most appropriate described state in terms of human consumption. Once processed the protein count isn't that big of a factor compared to more traditional ingredients, more like 3 to 4 times the protein. I think there are other questions surrounding legumes that are more interesting to discuss, like phosphor utilization, enzyme inhibitors and fermentation concerns.


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## monster'sdad (Jul 29, 2012)

Jacksons Mom said:


> I'm kinda disappointed that Acana is changing the formula and making the bags smaller AND raising the price.
> 
> He does very well on most Acana formulas (except the chicken based ones - lots of poop on those) so I'm hesitant to switch. But not sure I want to continue paying the prices, as I'm not entirely sure it's worth it. From what I'm understanding, if there's higher ash, the quality of meat may not necessarily be the greatest? So I'm thinking is it really worth it to pay almost $20 for a 5lb bag of food?
> 
> I was looking into Earthborn because the price difference really is huge, and it'd be easier on my wallet, (but again, most are a bit 'up there' in ash content), but then I've also wanted to try Canine Caviar grain free foods, but the price scares me (it's like $40 for a 12lb bag!!) but essentially, it's about the same for what I'm paying for Acana, but with much lower ash (5.6%, I think). I just really think the protein/fat ratios would work well with Jackson, as well as the more simple ingredient list, and I also like that their lowest ash I can find in a grain-free food. So I MAY try a 4lb bag just to give it a go. However the 599 calorie/cup confuses the hell out of me. That's a LOT. Are they using a different kind of system to determine calories?


Canine Caviar is another gimmick company, and it is not made at Ohio Pet any longer. The calories they state are very misleading. Ask they company what the calories are per KG and why they don't put it on the website. The amounts they state are high because more kibble fits in the cup, not because it is any more caloric.


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

meggels said:


> I don't necessarily judge a food based solely on availability....
> 
> Acana and Orijen are just now getting easier to find for me locally....Fromm is still not that easy to find...Nutrisource and Earthborn are others that are getting shelf space in stores now too...


I know a lot of people buy online but I never know when I will get a foster in and don't want to just have food sitting around, so for me I need to have kibble that is available to me locally and none of the foods mentioned have ever made it to the shelves but Canine Caviar which I wasn't impressed with several years ago when I looked at it.


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## monster'sdad (Jul 29, 2012)

DaViking said:


> 20% to 26% is correct in their raw form, which often is the most appropriate described state in terms of human consumption.


Well Dr. Adlrich is one of the top animal nutritionists. The trend in using legumes is all about cost and meeting the GA for protein.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

whiteleo said:


> I know a lot of people buy online but I never know when I will get a foster in and don't want to just have food sitting around, so for me I need to have kibble that is available to me locally and none of the foods mentioned have ever made it to the shelves but Canine Caviar which I wasn't impressed with several years ago when I looked at it.




Same here, not for fosters lol, I just prefer to have a food I can find in person. I get my food at cost though through my friend, so that's another reason why lol. I think I paid like $24 for the 15lb bag of Acana, which was nice lol.


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## Jacksons Mom (Jun 13, 2010)

monster'sdad said:


> Canine Caviar is another gimmick company, and it is not made at Ohio Pet any longer. The calories they state are very misleading. Ask they company what the calories are per KG and why they don't put it on the website. The amounts they state are high because more kibble fits in the cup, not because it is any more caloric.


Where do you see it's no longer made at Ohio Pet?


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## monster'sdad (Jul 29, 2012)

Jacksons Mom said:


> Where do you see it's no longer made at Ohio Pet?


I read about it a while back. The food is made in NY somewhere now, my guess CVF.


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## Jacksons Mom (Jun 13, 2010)

monster'sdad said:


> I read about it a while back. The food is made in NY somewhere now, my guess CVF.


A Canine Caviar staff member just emailed and informed me that Chenango was not capable of keeping up with the amount of volume they required. They are now at Hi-Tek in Dublin GA.


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## monster'sdad (Jul 29, 2012)

Jacksons Mom said:


> A Canine Caviar staff member just emailed and informed me that Chenango was not capable of keeping up with the amount of volume they required. They are now at Hi-Tek in Dublin GA.


Yuck...........


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

What's wrong with hi-tek?


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## Kibblelady (Jul 13, 2012)

I had never heard of the plant, heard of the foods... (shrug) Monster, what are the issues with HyTek?


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## Jacksons Mom (Jun 13, 2010)

Yeah, what's wrong with Hi-Tek? 

*shrugs* whatever... I'm trying it. I bought a bag last night. He's eating it up, poops are great so far, but I'll see how he does. 

It seems you're going to find something wrong with every plant and I'm not feeding Dr. Tims or Anneameat, most of the formulas are chicken based. And every time he has chicken based foods, he's got big soft poop and gunky eyes.

He's always done the best on Acana, so we'll see. I'm definitely not giving it up... just kinda irritated with Acana's recent formula change, smaller bag and price increase. Not that CC is any cheaper  So, I don't know. Was initially looking for cheaper (Earthborn) and ended up buying CC instead to try. I like the 5.7% ash. And the protein/fat ratios.


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## Kibblelady (Jul 13, 2012)

Jacksons Mom said:


> Yeah, what's wrong with Hi-Tek?
> 
> *shrugs* whatever... I'm trying it. I bought a bag last night. He's eating it up, poops are great so far, but I'll see how he does.
> 
> ...


No issues with Ohio Pet Foods lol (being funny) I have never even heard of HiTek which is odd... so I cannot comment on them. Blackwood does now offer a "grain free" Salmon recipe if you were interested in trying something from this plant...just for an FYI and an option if you needed one.


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## Knowitall's (May 19, 2021)

Jacksons Mom said:


> In case any one was interested - I emailed Champion about the new formulas and ash levels.
> 
> Here is what I got;
> 
> ...


h can be produced through the incineration of any organic substance. Millies Wolfheart contains higher quality meat and fish from both fresh and meal than many of the other brands available and this results in higher ash content. Since meat and fish meals often contain bone in them (which contains a lot of calcium and phosphorus), adding more of these meat and fish meals result in the ash content of our food being higher than the lower meat higher carb grain filled lower quality foods. Although, ash seems to be perfectly harmless from a scientific point of view, it still used as a selling promo for low quality foods who promote their low ash content but forget to explain the reasoning behind this which is low meat inclusion and usually high vegetable proteins. Many dog owners have expressed their opinions that, more than anything ash is mostly filler and takes up space where more healthful ingredients should be included. Which is totally incorrect. There is an essential amount of ash required by the AAFCO to meet nutritional requirements.


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