# Emu Oil



## 3Musketeers

Alrighty so, I went on a whim about a month ago, and bought some food-grade Emu Oil for the brats.
I was previously giving them Salmon oil caps (the ones from Costco), they looked good with them. But, one of the things that put me off was that Sparky started having some hair loss (around 9-10 months into raw), like a "flea allergy", except there were no fleas around. 
Can't say it was the Salmon Oil because the other two brats were fine, but there was the mention by Re that her pug also got hair thinning using the same Oil caps for about the same amount of time (go figure). I was going to try that life line Salmon Oil but I decided to make a bigger change, so I got the Emu Oil.
One thing that's for sure is that with the switch, the brats coats are much softer and silkier, and a lot shinier (didn't think it was possible). And Sparky is growing hair back.

Could it be that the costco caps are just no good, or maybe the brats just take to emu oil better? 
How does Emu Oil compare to Salmon Oil? It's supposed to be high in Omega 3s as well?
Whatever it is... it's working.


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## magicre

first, where did you get emu oil, pretty please?

when i was buying it, i got it from australia and it was hella expensive, so i had to stop.

both of my dogs....you're right, it was costco wild alaskan salmon oil, lost hair, but bubba was the worst. we didn't know whether it was lack of dietary fat or the salmon oil, so initially we stopped both. and hair came back.

then we tried a different brand of salmon oil and hair went away again....and it was immediate.

so now we are using coconut oil, but if i had my druthers, they'd be back on emu oil....it was awesome. i never saw coats that looked like they did when i had them on emu oil....


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## DaneMama

I never liked the salmon oil caps from Costco as much as the liquid form. Emu oil is supposed to be one of the best omega sources there are.

We actually just got some emu meat from an emu oil farmer...for free. It was some of the most beautiful meat I've ever seen, but the dogs except Zuri didn't want to have anything to do with it. So we shoved it down their throats...sometimes dogs don't know whats best for them LOL.

There are actually a lot of emu farmers in the US....here's a national list:

http://agonline.com/agonline/emuranches2.asp

I would contact any farmers in your area to see if they can supply it for you. Re...theres actually quite a few in the PNW.


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## 3Musketeers

Ah thanks, so I'm not just going crazy here, Emu Oil is actually good xD.

Sadly Re, it's not cheap, but figures it should last a long time with small dogs.
I've been getting this one:
Amazon.com: Australian Gold Emu Oil 8 Oz: Beauty
It's actually better priced if you buy it from the manufacturer's website, like $5 less.
Here: Australian Gold Emu Oil | Pure Emu Oil


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## minnieme

3Musketeers said:


> It's actually better priced if you buy it from the manufacturer's website, like $5 less.
> Here: Australian Gold Emu Oil | Pure Emu Oil


I have that one....I wasn't aware it was food grade. I put a little on Minnie in the bath and she always tries to eat it! Haha... so it's okay to add to her meals then??


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## magicre

DaneMama said:


> I never liked the salmon oil caps from Costco as much as the liquid form. Emu oil is supposed to be one of the best omega sources there are.
> 
> We actually just got some emu meat from an emu oil farmer...for free. It was some of the most beautiful meat I've ever seen, but the dogs except Zuri didn't want to have anything to do with it. So we shoved it down their throats...sometimes dogs don't know whats best for them LOL.
> 
> There are actually a lot of emu farmers in the US....here's a national list:
> 
> Emu Ranch Listing
> 
> I would contact any farmers in your area to see if they can supply it for you. Re...theres actually quite a few in the PNW.


thanks, natalie.....

our list actually had emu scraps and i bought them....they had spines plus the rib cages which we broke down and also necks....interesting cut of meat...unlike any i've seen with a whole different texture....

i'm feeding them the hearts today....


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## magicre

minnieme said:


> I have that one....I wasn't aware it was food grade. I put a little on Minnie in the bath and she always tries to eat it! Haha... so it's okay to add to her meals then??


as long as it is the pure oil.....absolutely.


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## whiteleo

They sell it locally at my Walkers dog food store, I might have to give it a try. I hate buying stuff online............


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## minnieme

magicre said:


> as long as it is the pure oil.....absolutely.


No wonder she licks herself more than usual after an emu oil bath... I'm sure she thinks she tastes absolutely scrumptious. :biggrin:


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## 3Musketeers

minnieme said:


> No wonder she licks herself more than usual after an emu oil bath... I'm sure she thinks she tastes absolutely scrumptious. :biggrin:


Yah, they absolutely love the stuff :biggrin:


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## magicre

3Musketeers said:


> Ah thanks, so I'm not just going crazy here, Emu Oil is actually good xD.
> 
> Sadly Re, it's not cheap, but figures it should last a long time with small dogs.
> I've been getting this one:
> Amazon.com: Australian Gold Emu Oil 8 Oz: Beauty
> It's actually better priced if you buy it from the manufacturer's website, like $5 less.
> Here: Australian Gold Emu Oil | Pure Emu Oil


no. you're not crazy. this stuff is awesome. put a little on the coat after a bath, a little on the food.....and you should see a difference....we saw hair grow back....almost immediately.

'course, in our case, we did order salmon oil in liquid form from our yahoo group and that caused the same problem, so bubba has an issue with salmon oil in general...not just the costco.


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## magicre

whiteleo said:


> They sell it locally at my Walkers dog food store, I might have to give it a try. I hate buying stuff online............


do you really? i love buying stuff online...and then in a bit, i get presents dropped off at my door. LOL

give it a try.

i can't afford to buy it all the time, but after i'm done feeding it, i'll get it again.


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## magicre

3Musketeers said:


> Ah thanks, so I'm not just going crazy here, Emu Oil is actually good xD.
> 
> Sadly Re, it's not cheap, but figures it should last a long time with small dogs.
> I've been getting this one:
> Amazon.com: Australian Gold Emu Oil 8 Oz: Beauty
> It's actually better priced if you buy it from the manufacturer's website, like $5 less.
> Here: Australian Gold Emu Oil | Pure Emu Oil



well, i blame you for this and i also want to hug you for this....i had totally forgotten about emu oil....until a few days ago when i went out to the freezer to get some food for the dogs and remembered i had emu hearts, ribs and necks...

and then you made this thread, so i'll give bubba the hearts, since he is the one with the problem. it's only on his face, but until this weather changes, it needs to go away. he's almost broken through the skin where there is no fur....so i want to catch it before it becomes an open sore.....


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## meggels

i was told that the spray was a natural anti-fungal/bacterial, so I have been spraying it all over murph, esp inbetween his paws where he's red and itchy...


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## magicre

meggels said:


> i was told that the spray was a natural anti-fungal/bacterial, so I have been spraying it all over murph, esp inbetween his paws where he's red and itchy...


has it worked on his toes? paws? LOL

because if it works, maybe david's tobi would be interested.


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## meggels

I've only been doing it for a day, but I'll let ya know  


I've been spraying his whole body for a few days now, and I DO notice he's less itchy. Typically he smushes his face into the carpet and walks around the house making gremlin noises. He also was scooting on his tushy a lot, but we got his anal glands emptied yesterday, and apparently they were full. So not sure if that was what was making him scoot or just allergies.


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## 3Musketeers

magicre said:


> do you really? i love buying stuff online...and then in a bit, i get presents dropped off at my door. LOL
> 
> give it a try.
> 
> i can't afford to buy it all the time, but after i'm done feeding it, i'll get it again.


LOL, I feel the same way when I get boxes over the mail/ups, like my gifts have arrived! :biggrin:
Aww, hopefully those hearts/ribs helps Bubba's hair grow back . 



I think I'm gonna stick with the emu oil, I've never seen my brats so shiny before. Just wanted to make sure it was an appropriate substitute for Salmon Oil.


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## magicre

3Musketeers said:


> Ah thanks, so I'm not just going crazy here, Emu Oil is actually good xD.
> 
> Sadly Re, it's not cheap, but figures it should last a long time with small dogs.
> I've been getting this one:
> Amazon.com: Australian Gold Emu Oil 8 Oz: Beauty
> It's actually better priced if you buy it from the manufacturer's website, like $5 less.
> Here: Australian Gold Emu Oil | Pure Emu Oil


i ordered two bottles from silkysgarden.....they were so very nice. i got an email receipt right after i ordered it and then i got a note that they had charged me 5.00 more than they should for shipping and then i got notice five minutes later from paypal saying that silkysgarden had refunded 5.00.

now that's a nice place to shop.


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## leilaquinn

I use it on my face, and though it smells like nothing to me, Luigi loves to try to lick it off. how much do you guys give your dogs?


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## whiteleo

Yeah, I'd like to know this also as I bought some and am just putting a little in their food.


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## 3Musketeers

whiteleo said:


> Yeah, I'd like to know this also as I bought some and am just putting a little in their food.


I suppose it depends on the size of the dogs, I've been giving my brats (8-13lbs) a few drops on a spoon each, before their meals (size of a nickel total), twice a week, so not much at all. Kind of working on what works still, might make it 3 times a week. 
You know you've given too much when you get loose stools xDDD.


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## 3Musketeers

magicre said:


> i ordered two bottles from silkysgarden.....they were so very nice. i got an email receipt right after i ordered it and then i got a note that they had charged me 5.00 more than they should for shipping and then i got notice five minutes later from paypal saying that silkysgarden had refunded 5.00.
> 
> now that's a nice place to shop.


Haha, I like them, they even sent me a freebie with my order, an Emu Oil lip balm, I don't use that stuff, but it made me feel special LOL.


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## magicre

my kids get a squirt every other day....and that seemed to work. 

respectively, they weigh 38 lbs and 23 lbs.


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## Kat

This is so interesting, I would have never thought of emu oil to feed to a dog. My friend works at a health food store and they sell emu oil there, tiny glass bottle, super expensive, but Im going to take a look at it next time Im there to see if its food grade. Ruby has a bit of hair missing at the base of where her rib cage ends going up a bit, just a thin-ish line, maybe that would help to grow it back? Does anyone know if emu oil helps with shedding too?


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## magicre

ya know the fold between the eyes and nose?

my bubba's hair is gone from there and his belly and around his eyes...because i didn't learn my lesson from salmon oil the first time. i thought it was the brand and so bought a better brand. 

nope. his hair started to fall out again.

now he's all itchy because his skin is dry and then three musketeers brought up emu oil again. 

whenever my friend brought emu oil from australia , he would tell me to give it to the dogs and so i did months ago. when i ran out i forgot about it.

and started using olive oil and coconut oil...which is also good and makes him not so itchy.

but emu oil is animal oil and i figure it's more species appropriate.....but i will alternate all three oils and hope that hair grows back between his eyes above his nose.


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## meggels

re- murph loses his hair there too and i've been spraying the emu oil i have on it and massaging it in, and it's helping


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## Kat

Nice, thats an extra bonus for wrinkly breeds! Rubys wrinkles around her eyes and nose always lose hair and get red and itchy. I have to clean her wrinkles daily, and I dry her eye wrinkles as many times as I can in a day.


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## magicre

i made a thread about it, because he has balding on his belly too....

but we'll see. i just started the emu oil...

but the people from the balkans made another suggestion that has nothing to do with science of pmr....i found it interesting.

it was filth who wanted shinier and thicker fur.

she feeds her dog pumpkin, sunflower, sesame and flax seeds...and i think i'm going to try it.....


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## 3Musketeers

I'm starting to think it may be the source of Omega 3s.
This isn't the first time I had seen this happen in my dogs, it was constant on kibble, disappeared for a few months on PMR, sure they looked better than on kibble. Maybe for some reason Salmon just wasn't agreeing all that well, and fish isn't an option.
It's still too soon to tell how the Emu Oil will play out, but 1-2 months in and I'm seeing nice improvements.
I will not argue with the seeds, flax-seeds etc are known to have a nice O3 content. The big difference is, you have to feed a lot more seeds than you do an animal-oil.


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## magicre

3Musketeers said:


> I'm starting to think it may be the source of Omega 3s.
> This isn't the first time I had seen this happen in my dogs, it was constant on kibble, disappeared for a few months on PMR, sure they looked better than on kibble. Maybe for some reason Salmon just wasn't agreeing all that well, and fish isn't an option.
> It's still too soon to tell how the Emu Oil will play out, but 1-2 months in and I'm seeing nice improvements.
> I will not argue with the seeds, flax-seeds etc are known to have a nice O3 content. The big difference is, you have to feed a lot more seeds than you do an animal-oil.


actually, not if you grind them to release the oils....

and, they only get a squirt, possibly a teaspoon per day or every other day....they shouldn't need it every day....and if they do, a teaspoon of ground seeds would probably be about the same.

i don't know....i just want what is best for my dogs....what i read in one of their answers was intriguing.


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## 3Musketeers

magicre said:


> actually, not if you grind them to release the oils....
> 
> and, they only get a squirt, possibly a teaspoon per day or every other day....they shouldn't need it every day....and if they do, a teaspoon of ground seeds would probably be about the same.
> 
> i don't know....i just want what is best for my dogs....what i read in one of their answers was intriguing.


I'm not trying to discourage you or anything. 
I suppose since you grind it, it becomes more readily available. I was thinking plain ol' entire seeds (not so digestible), I was starting to imagine having to add a whole tablespoon of seeds to the food. 

None of us would be seeing any of these coat-issues if only we fed pasture-raised animals :biggrin:.
Why can't we all just live by farms?


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## Donna Little

I'm going to have to try some for Toby. He's been eating the same things (chicken, beef, beef heart, pork, venison, tripe, and a small amount of organ) for several months. Nothing has changed except I bought The Missing Link for him to try a week or so ago. He has a lot of hair loss due to his health and I was hoping it would help. He took it for several days and has been itching like crazy. I've been keeping a thin shirt on him so he can't scratch his chest because he's tearing himself up. I don't know if the new stuff is the problem or not. I stopped giving it to him 3 days ago and I took the shirt off today to see if he'd scratch again and he started almost immediately. I don't feed them fish very often because most of my guys won't eat it but I do use fish oil. Well this morning I gave the ones that'll eat it some fish (including Toby) and now I'm wondering if fish just doesn't agree with him. I think I'm going to have to try the Emu oil. I can't stand to see him so miserable.


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## meggels

re- this is what I use, incase you are ever interested. I spray it on murph, esp on his itchy spots, his wrinkles, his feet, and I really do notice a difference.

Especially in his wrinkles, instead of being red and itchy, they are beginning to grow hair back.

Amazon.com: Kalaya Emu Oil Moisturizing Spray - 17 oz: Kitchen & Dining


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## magicre

meggels said:


> re- this is what I use, incase you are ever interested. I spray it on murph, esp on his itchy spots, his wrinkles, his feet, and I really do notice a difference.
> 
> Especially in his wrinkles, instead of being red and itchy, they are beginning to grow hair back.
> 
> Amazon.com: Kalaya Emu Oil Moisturizing Spray - 17 oz: Kitchen & Dining


i may get that to spray on his belly.....the hair never really came back all the way.

looks like useful stuff. thanks.

but i'd be afraid of putting it in this fold between his eyes....i'll end up spraying his eyes, he'll go blind and have you ever seen a blind pug with a white walking stick ? LOL


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## magicre

Donna Little said:


> I'm going to have to try some for Toby. He's been eating the same things (chicken, beef, beef heart, pork, venison, tripe, and a small amount of organ) for several months. Nothing has changed except I bought The Missing Link for him to try a week or so ago. He has a lot of hair loss due to his health and I was hoping it would help. He took it for several days and has been itching like crazy. I've been keeping a thin shirt on him so he can't scratch his chest because he's tearing himself up. I don't know if the new stuff is the problem or not. I stopped giving it to him 3 days ago and I took the shirt off today to see if he'd scratch again and he started almost immediately. I don't feed them fish very often because most of my guys won't eat it but I do use fish oil. Well this morning I gave the ones that'll eat it some fish (including Toby) and now I'm wondering if fish just doesn't agree with him. I think I'm going to have to try the Emu oil. I can't stand to see him so miserable.


it may not be the fish that doesn't agree with him....bubba can eat fish...but not the salmon oil...that's what caused his problem.

we used to use missing link when we home cooked...and we stopped because there was an ingredient in it that i didn't care for.

but i'm desparate now, so i'm thinking ground sesame, pumpkin, flax, sunflower seeds might be what i want. it's straight to the source of omegas without any extras. and if i grind it and put a little on his food, i'll report back later and let you know if it worked.


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## meggels

magicre said:


> i may get that to spray on his belly.....the hair never really came back all the way.
> 
> looks like useful stuff. thanks.
> 
> but i'd be afraid of putting it in this fold between his eyes....i'll end up spraying his eyes, he'll go blind and have you ever seen a blind pug with a white walking stick ? LOL



LOLOL

It comes out in a very soft and direct stream, not in a spray where it like....sprays within a few inches (if that makes sense). So I just spray it right on the middle of his eyeballs and massage it in. You could always put it on a paper towel or something and do it that way if you're worried 

It smells good too. I think it's good to give their coat a little shin and silkiness.


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## Donna Little

meggels said:


> LOLOL
> 
> It comes out in a very soft and direct stream, not in a spray where it like....sprays within a few inches (if that makes sense). *So I just spray it right on the middle of his eyeballs and massage it in.* You could always put it on a paper towel or something and do it that way if you're worried
> 
> It smells good too. I think it's good to give their coat a little shin and silkiness.


I had to read that sentence a couple of times before I got it.  OH, she means between his TWO eyes not in the middle of his literal eyeball! I was thinking, wouldn't that be a bad idea?? I'm old and my brain cells are tired....


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## meggels

rofl, i see the misunderstanding. yes...i spray it inbetween his two eyes LOL. not IN the eyes  murph would probably never come near me again if i sprayed emu oil IN his eyes haha


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## magicre

i am also talking to the people from the balkans....and they are also making some sense in what they say.....

since there's no real science one way or another and, since i have not been able to grow bubba's fur back in over a year doing it my way, i think i shall try a little of their way.


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## Filth

magicre said:


> i made a thread about it, because he has balding on his belly too....
> 
> but we'll see. i just started the emu oil...
> 
> but the people from the balkans made another suggestion that has nothing to do with science of pmr....i found it interesting.
> 
> it was filth who wanted shinier and thicker fur.
> 
> she feeds her dog pumpkin, sunflower, sesame and flax seeds...and i think i'm going to try it.....



That was a part of my post at "raw recipies" thread that closed just a few minutes before I wrote it. Here it is, just a part about seeds. It is my answer to @RFD and @CavePaws also.

And I think you stir in the science to much. Why would I have to bother myself with the shape of their teeth? For example I simply started giving my dog seeds(in my case mixture of pumpkin, sunflower, sesame and flax seeds) and her hair and skin started being healthier. It looks better, it is softer it is shinier, I can tell it has better quality, it is more resistant. What else do I need? If I give her just meat her hair and skin looks worse then if I give her meat and seeds! It is clear as that...which gives me a conclusion that my dogs is actually getting something from seeds, and that seeds help her in some way. I recommended this mixture to at least 20 people(raw feeders). All of them later had news about better quality of their dog's skin and hair. Did I bother myself with shape of dogs teeth? No. Did I bother myself with their digestion system? No. Did I bother myself thinking about the dogs ability of digesting and absorption of these seeds? No. I just wanted better skin and hair, I tried with those and I succeed! And what do I have now? A dog with a better quality of hair and skin! And what do you have? A strong belief that they can not digest and absorb seeds...?

Not everything is in wolves eating something or not a million years ago...you have your dog, try it. The way they look and live will be the best judge.

What I would add to this(my post from our forum)
What I'm concerned about is how you are you going to give your dogs mixture of seeds. I do not know if they are voracious dogs and if they will eat whatever new you put them in the bowl. What you can do is to make a seeds mixture, mix it with yogurt and pour over meat. Our dogs love it that way, yours probably will too. But remember to start slowly, and to be careful. Give them just a little bit for a beginning, and you can start with just flex seed. Than after few days you can add one by one slowly. We started giving that mixture to our dogs at very young age, so they are used to it, so it is a different story. You have to adjust your dogs to it, and you have to do it slow. Trust me, you will see the results very soon. And don't forget to grind them, very important thing.


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## magicre

this i know how to do.

we go very slowly when introducing new things to our dogs. 

yes. i will grind seeds. and introduce them one at a time in very little amounts. 

i will probably not mix with yoghurt at this time because i have to do one thing at a time. 

that is how i got my dogs in trouble when i first started feeding them a raw diet rather than a kibble diet and overfed and fed the wrong things. 

now i know to go very very slowly.

thank you.


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## Filth

Yes, it is always good to be patient, and go real slow. Yogurt may not be a good idea since you haven't given it before so you do not need another new ingredient.
I recommend yogurt almost automatically cause people use it here in dogs diet very often. Most of them pour it over kibble too. 

If anyone has a question about seeds fell free to ask, but this is about all you need to know to start feeding them.


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## magicre

there are many things that a prey model raw feeder does not feed and dairy would be one of them. 

actually, there are several doctors in the united states who have put out studies that dairy is not beneficial to humans either, but that is a debate for another day.

i love yoghurt, personally, but it is actually the only dairy i do like. 

i see that you feed your dogs cheese. may i ask why?

white cheese. what is white cheese?


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## kady05

This was an interesting read.. I had never even heard of Emu oil! Pretty pricey though.. 

Piper's coat has never been great, despite me trying coconut oil, fish oil, vitamin E, etc. on her. Nothing has ever seemed to make it shine like my boys coats do (and my boys are still on kibble, go figure).. I've chalked it up to bad genetics; she came to me with Demodex, and is from a backyard breeder, so doesn't really have good coat genes going for her. 

Interesting about the seeds though.. I didn't really follow the other thread (too many pages to keep up!) about them. I gave my horse a mixture of black oil sunflower seeds & flax seeds daily, and his coat was amazing. Maybe I'll try Piper on the mixture Filth is talking about..


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## Filth

magicre said:


> i see that you feed your dogs cheese. may i ask why?
> 
> white cheese. what is white cheese?


Because of the Ca. I think bone should not be the only big source of Ca, since meat has just a little bit of it. It also provides Vitamin D, which dog needs to absorb calcium. 

American cheese is a completely different story than cheese here. I do not know how would I explain the difference, but we have a special name for a dairy product you call cheese over there. Our cheese is something different, a lot healthier I would say. They may produce that kind of cheese in America too, but I did not have a chance to try it.

It is usually non salt cheese. Some kind of home made "feta cheese". I can surely tell you that it is very healthy for humans, as it is for dogs too. Somebody will explain how it's made and what are the differences better then me, I'm sure.  I think the main difference is that this kind of cheese contains more water that the classic American cheese(the dried one).


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## magicre

filth, is it a cheese from cows or goats?

is your yoghurt from cows or goats or both?

i watched the monty python clip on cheese. that was hilarious.

kady -- as was explained to me, if you are going to use the seed combination, start with one seed, ground enough to break the shell so it is absorbed and doesn't come out the other end the same way it went in....

little bits until dog gets used to it and then add each seed in one at a time, just like we do with proteins.

i will say that adding in the emu oil and it isn't an every day thing has been good for my dogs.

when i add fish back in which i will be doing next week....that will even be better....

the people on the balkan forum either feed sardines raw or baked.....i would imagine if cooked long enough the bones will not be a problem..

they also use sea kelp which gave my dog diarrhea...i know white leo uses it with great results and again, the people on the balkan forum are boiling it...which i might try down the line..

in all reality, most of my dog looks fantastic. it is just the two areas, belly and between his eyes, the fold....above his nose...that is where my problem lies. his fur is simply not as thick as it was before the salmon oil fiasco.


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## magicre

N?mec's farmers dairy Radonice - Sortiment

would your cheese look something like the cheese on this website?

because it looks like goat or sheep feta to me.


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## Filth

Yes. Something like this or similar. There is many different kinds of them. I'm sure Diana M. will explain the process of making white cheese and post some pictures of her own home made cheese.


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## Caty M

I was thinking of trying a barf style diet for a month or so to see if I notice a difference in Tessie's coat, she's never had a super shiny or soft coat. Bishops is soooo soft and silky. Perhaps I will read up and then make a thread about it!


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## magicre

Filth said:


> Yes. Something like this or similar. There is many different kinds of them. I'm sure Diana M. will explain the process of making white cheese and post some pictures of her own home made cheese.


she is talking about cottage cheese if i understand correctly.

i do not know about others, but i do not make my own cheese.

our cottage cheese is watery and bland.


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## magicre

Caty M said:


> I was thinking of trying a barf style diet for a month or so to see if I notice a difference in Tessie's coat, she's never had a super shiny or soft coat. Bishops is soooo soft and silky. Perhaps I will read up and then make a thread about it!


how long has tessie been on raw feeding?

please let us know how it goes......do you think a month is long enough to see a difference?


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## Caty M

magicre said:


> how long has tessie been on raw feeding?
> 
> please let us know how it goes......do you think a month is long enough to see a difference?


Since 8 weeks so just over 4 months now... four weeks probably isn't enough to see a lot but i feel if it is truly a better diet some sort of improvement will be seen. It can't hurt anyway!!


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## magicre

Caty M said:


> Since 8 weeks so just over 4 months now... four weeks probably isn't enough to see a lot but i feel if it is truly a better diet some sort of improvement will be seen. It can't hurt anyway!!


if you don't mind, i want reports 

thing is, four months on raw isn't enough to see a full transition.....but no matter....i would still want to know


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