# Trying to find my options on raw



## shortdariwanda (Mar 8, 2010)

At the moment, I'm feeding my dogs on Merrick Wilderness Blend and Natural Balance Venison. My chihuahua-mix and papillon-mix does just fine on any food I put them on (I'm sure even pedigree if I ever lost my mind). My Boston is the one who has issues with different ingredients and the way the kibbles are processed. He was on TOTW a while back and did absolutely TERRIBLY on all varieties of it. He was constantly itching and losing fur left and right.

Anyway, I'm just weighing my options at the moment on the choices I have available for my dogs. I've always wanted to put my dogs on Orijen because it seems to be one of THE best rated dry dog food from various sources, but obviously it's also very expensive, so I've been thinking about going raw. From what I've read so far, it seems that raw is cheaper than going with premium dry food. Plus, I'll probably save on gas because I travel about 40 mins just to get to the pet store to get their food. Right now I pay about $52 for a 28lb bag that lasts me about a month and a half for three small dogs. I try not to feed them too much because they live a sedentary life style. I'm curious to know about how much would I feed my lazy dogs if I went raw, and whether or not 40lbs of raw chicken would last for approximately the same length as what I'm doing now with the dry food. My dogs really don't do too much right now, besides getting a brisk walk and chasing each other around the house. Once the weather starts warming up, they'll get more exercise.

I would also like to know if just feeding raw chicken would be just as beneficial as feeding a variety of proteins, like beef or pork or turkey. I'm just curious to know because at the moment, the idea of feeding raw chicken to the pups sounds expensive to my hubby. I'm trying to convince him otherwise because of all the rave reviews of the quality of coat, stool, and teeth of everyone's pups. I'm sure my pups would be absolutely thrilled to the bones to be fed raw flesh instead of bland ol' kibble. :biggrin:


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

I'm glad that you are considering going raw, if you make the switch and stick to it you will be astounded at the results and benefits.

First off, 40 pounds of kibble goes a lot further than 40 pounds of raw food. Raw foods are not devoid of all moisture like kibble is, so you cannot compare them on weight alone. I say that comparing them by price per pound is a better comparison, although not 100% accurate. Your dogs will eat more in weight per day, week or month but it will cost less in the long run. The "guideline" to follow is ~2-3% of their IDEAL weight per day in ounces/pounds of meat. This is just a starting point on what to calculate to feed and may need to change depending on energy levels, age, etc. Keeping an eye on body condition is a much better way to figure out how much to feed. If you notice your dog getting a bit round, cut them back a bit and vice versa. 

Cost depends a lot on your location and what resources you have access to. I know that a lot of people living in CA have an issue with low cost in meats since cost of living in general is higher there. But the good thing to keep in mind is that with raw feeding your options are pretty much endless on where to find meat and what connections you make regardless of where you live. You just have to learn what to do and what to look for.

An exclusively raw chicken diet is not ideal, but still better than kibble. You just have to make sure that your dogs are getting mostly muscle meat, some bone and some organ. The more variety you can provide the better since it will give better all around nutrition since different meats contain different amounts of nutrients and they all make up for other shortcomings. 

Here is a great resource on how to start!

How to get started | Prey Model Raw


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

shortdariwanda said:


> From what I've read so far, it seems that raw is cheaper than going with premium dry food.


I feed three dogs raw, an American Cocker Spaniel, a Pembroke Welsh Corgi, and a Boxer. My dogs are incredibly active. I posted a thread a while back on our actual costs. You might want to check it out. It's what I pay to feed approx 100lbs of dog a well rounded diet with quite a bit of variety.

http://dogfoodchat.com/forum/raw-feeding/2705-our-official-price-per-pound.html



shortdariwanda said:


> I'm curious to know about how much would I feed my lazy dogs if I went raw, and whether or not 40lbs of raw chicken would last for approximately the same length as what I'm doing now with the dry food.


I'm going to GUESS that your dogs weigh an average of 10lbs each, so you're feeding about 30lbs of dog, which is roughly 3/4 of a pound of food per day, aiming a little high. at an average of $.74 per pound you're looking at roughly $16.65/month. 
This is all just approximate calculations, and of course, it's not an exact science, there are many variables. 




shortdariwanda said:


> I would also like to know if just feeding raw chicken would be just as beneficial as feeding a variety of proteins, like beef or pork or turkey.


It wouldn't be just as benefitial, because variety in any kind of diet is absolutely key. I DO think a diet of one white meat, one red meat, bone inclusive, with liver is still better than ANY kibble out there. Beef is pretty expensive, so we feed quite a bit of pork, which we can get for $.98/lb. I've also found lamb and goat at reasonable prices.




Chicken Leg Quarters, which you can cut up for yur little guys, are about $.60/lb in ten pound bags at wal mart. Using hese as the base of your dog's diet will really help you to keep your costs low. We use them for about 50% of our dog's diet. 
When I first thought about going raw, I thought it would be so expensive, but just looking through the meat sections at different grocery stores, I had a real eye opener. There are a lot of cuts of meat out there that are a lot cheaper than maybe the things I tend to buy for myself. When I thought "chicken" before, I was thinking the $1.50/lb boneless skinless chicken breasts I buy for myself. There are much more affordable options for the dogs!!
Also, just keep an eye out for really good sales, I never pay full price for any meat anymore.


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## shortdariwanda (Mar 8, 2010)

I think what I'll do is start checking out the meat sections at Walmart, Target, and BJ's (which is like Sam's Club or Costco for those who don't know) and just kind of point out the prices to my hubby and see if that'll convince him. We have a gi-normous freezer that's slightly empty most of the time, so buying in bulk should be no problem. I'm just kind of worried that the people (me and my hubby) will end up eating the meat instead of the pups! XD


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

I would find a meat distributor nearby that you can order from in bulk. Or join a co op and set up connections that way. That is the only way that we find meat so cheap. Costco and Target are not going to have the cheaper meats like Walmart...which to be honest only has good deals on chicken mostly. Are you located near or in a larger city?


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## shortdariwanda (Mar 8, 2010)

I'm basically in-between two big cities, each being approximately 40 mins away... Gotta love FL and it being spread out all over the place. But I do live close by to my buddy harrkim120 (who was the one who got me interested in raw feeding) so maybe the two of us can team up and do some sleuthing together, since I tagged along with her to get that used chest freezer! Haha!


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

shortdariwanda said:


> I'm basically in-between two big cities, each being approximately 40 mins away... Gotta love FL and it being spread out all over the place. But I do live close by to my buddy harrkim120 (who was the one who got me interested in raw feeding) so maybe the two of us can team up and do some sleuthing together, since I tagged along with her to get that used chest freezer! Haha!


That is a great idea. Its aways good to have someone to split orders with or help out with picking things up and just to have around for support!


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## LindaP (Jan 14, 2010)

I hope you make the switch. You will NEVER regret it. I switched Cali because of the terrible problems she had on every kibble we tried--all the one's you mentioned and others. For the record, Orijen was NO better than the rest AT ALL. Her poop was still coming out in buckets, and the stench! OMG, Orijen poops were the worst of all.


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## Chocx2 (Nov 16, 2009)

when you refer to co-op? is that a whole sale store?


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Chocx2 said:


> when you refer to co-op? is that a whole sale store?


A co op is a "cooperative" of people that work together on a common goal...a raw feeding co op is one that is comprised of a group of people who work together finding and providing the best deals possible on meats for their animals. Group buys and special discounts are some of the best reasons to belong to a co op but some provide some great support.


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## harrkim120 (Feb 2, 2010)

Geez...look at you all droppin' my name around here like you know me or something!!! :biggrin:

Just to give you an example of the cost:

When I was feeding Brady kibble, he was eating about 1/2lb each day. On raw, he's eating a little under a pound a day. So it's definitely more, BUT look at it this way...you're paying $52 for a 28lb bag. That's $1.87 a pound. Now let's say they eat as much as Brady (which there's no way cause they're less active, and don't weigh as much); 1/2lb a day on kibble or about a pound of raw a day per dog. Your cost of kibble per day now is about 93 cents. Therefore, so long as your average cost of meat is at or under 93-94 cents a pound, you're good. :biggrin:

Cost of some meats I've bought recently:

chicken leg quarters: 40 cents a pound
whole turkey: 75 cents a pound
pork picnic roast: 85 cents a pound
pork neck bones: 65 cents a pound
whole rats from Danielle (coming soon): free :biggrin:

I also found this market:

Felton's Meat & Produce

It's in Plant City, so it's a little bit of a drive, but they're crazy cheap!!! I bought a 40lb box of chicken leg quarters there about a week ago for $15.99...this week they have it on sale for $12.99!!! I'm totally getting more!!! 

In conclusion, I think you should do it. Then we can go shopping together. :wink:


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

Are you really going to feed your dog rats?


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## harrkim120 (Feb 2, 2010)

whiteleo said:


> Are you really going to feed your dog rats?


They're bigger rats and run a little over a pound a piece. He's not ready for it yet, but eventually yes, he will get some rat goodness. :biggrin: It's meat and organs and bones. There's just a bad stigma with them. And at least I know where these have come from. 

We'll see how I do with the skinning of them.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

harrkim120 said:


> We'll see how I do with the skinning of them.


I see no need to skin them. Waste of time and effort...unless you enjoy that kind of thing LOL :wink:


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## harrkim120 (Feb 2, 2010)

danemama08 said:


> I see no need to skin them. Waste of time and effort...unless you enjoy that kind of thing LOL :wink:


Haha...maybe I do. :biggrin: :wink:


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

Yuck! I can see the huskeys and sibes eating them though, but not a sweet boston or even the thought of my bull terriers chompin on a rat! LOL


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## harrkim120 (Feb 2, 2010)

whiteleo said:


> Yuck! I can see the huskeys and sibes eating them though, but not a sweet boston or even the thought of my bull terriers chompin on a rat! LOL


Haha...well I don't know about "sweet." lol

However, they are both descendants of terriers. Terriers are known to be ratters....:tongue: lol


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

Well my boy likes to look in the grass for the mice and try to jump on top of them,:tongue: but it's the thrill of the hunt, I don't think he'd actually eat it if he caught it. And those things are already dead, you really have to let me know how that goes!


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## harrkim120 (Feb 2, 2010)

whiteleo said:


> Well my boy likes to look in the grass for the mice and try to jump on top of them,:tongue: but it's the thrill of the hunt, I don't think he'd actually eat it if he caught it. And those things are already dead, you really have to let me know how that goes!


Oh I will...I'll probably put some pictures up. 

It won't be for a little while though. His tum-tum isn't ready for something that hardcore yet. :wink:


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## shortdariwanda (Mar 8, 2010)

Wow, rats? Imagine the look on David's face when I bring rats to feed my pups, especially that cute sweet-looking Coco chomping on a big 'ol rat. The next thing my dogs would go after is Rhino, my hamster.


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## shortdariwanda (Mar 8, 2010)

Yesterday my husband and I walked around various places to run a couple errands, and strolled around the meat sections so I could show him the monetary benefits on going raw for the dogs. He made an interesting point about the inconvenience of going raw. When we feed the pups, any special things for the dogs, whether it be adding extra fresh veggies or eggs or supps, would be done by me. When I'm working and it's feeding time, he pretty much scoops out the kibble and puts it in their bowl. So if we were to go raw, he wouldn't really know what to do. I mean, I could pretty much cut up the meat for him the night before or something, but what about if we were to have an emergency and have to find someone to watch them or board them somewhere? Trying to trust strangers to feed three dogs raw meat for dinner sounds a bit iffy to me... I might just be too much of a control freak to worry, but has anyone had any experience with that?


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

shortdariwanda said:


> He made an interesting point about the inconvenience of going raw.


I don't really find it to be too inconvenient. While some people scoop kibble into a bowl, I just dump a baggie of raw in the grass outside. (we taught our puppy to eat on a rug that I just bleach every few days, so she doesn't eat outside)The only thing that can be considered an inconvenience is getting a freezer set up, but that's a one time thing, and for three dogs as little as yours, with as little weight asa they have, I don't even know that you'd necessarily *need* a full sized one. 



shortdariwanda said:


> Trying to trust strangers to feed three dogs raw meat for dinner sounds a bit iffy to me... I might just be too much of a control freak to worry, but has anyone had any experience with that?


Absolutely. Jon and I go out of town about one weekend a month, and my father in law stops in a few times a day to take care of the dogs. Easy peasy.



What Jon and I do is have a meat storm about every 6 weeks or however long it takes for us to have a decent stock of sale meats. (we never pay full price, just grab stuff when we see good sales) During this "meat storm" we cut and package all of our meat into one day portioned baggies. We spend about two to three hours on it, depending on how much we have, but we don't have to worry with it for another moth or two, so it's not too bad. 

From there, all the bags go into labeled containers in my full size upright freezer. Each night, we just pull the next day's food out and let it thaw overnight. 
We are considering eliminating the baggies because they are wasteful, but for now it's what's working for us, since all of our dogs eat such different amounts, I like to have them seprate. 
I linked another thread that has pictures of how we organize.

http://dogfoodchat.com/forum/pictures/2669-i-think-my-freezer-has-ocd.html



NOTE: It really doesn't have to be THIS crazy organized. We just did this not long ago. Before then we just had baggies all over, and it was fine, this is moreso the product of me having nothing better to do one night.

ETA: I would never leave me dogs in someone's care who was unwilling to keep them on their raw diet. IMO if they aren't willing to feed hem raw, which just isn't that big of a deal, just dumping an already prepared baggie, what else are they not willing to do for their care?


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

shortdariwanda said:


> Yesterday my husband and I walked around various places to run a couple errands, and strolled around the meat sections so I could show him the monetary benefits on going raw for the dogs. He made an interesting point about the inconvenience of going raw. When we feed the pups, any special things for the dogs, whether it be adding extra fresh veggies or eggs or supps, would be done by me. When I'm working and it's feeding time, he pretty much scoops out the kibble and puts it in their bowl. So if we were to go raw, he wouldn't really know what to do. I mean, I could pretty much cut up the meat for him the night before or something, but what about if we were to have an emergency and have to find someone to watch them or board them somewhere? Trying to trust strangers to feed three dogs raw meat for dinner sounds a bit iffy to me... I might just be too much of a control freak to worry, but has anyone had any experience with that?


The inconvenience of raw is one of the biggest reasons why people don't choose it. I don't see it as an inconvenience because these are my fur kids and I will always do what is best for them no matter what.

I will say that raw feeding really should be a combined effort for the both of you. It really isn't that much work or hard to get the hang of, so no reason why he shouldn't learn and be supportive of it. Instead of scooping out some doom nuggets and pouring them into a bowl, you throw a chunk of meat outside and let the dog out to have at it. As for adding in veggies...that is a personal matter but they hold no real nutrition for dogs and it would just be added energy and prep work.

The biggest prep that you would do is pre packaging the meat into separated meals, however you choose to do it. What we do is section our meat out into 12 quart containers which holds about 2 days worth of food for our 4 dogs. We pull one out of the freezer and let it thaw out over night and feed it over the next day or two. 

As far as leaving your dogs, you should definitely call around to boarding facilities and find one that is raw supportive, they do exist. Or contact friends and family that you trust and give them the gist of your feeding schedule and what to do if they are willing to support it. Since you will already be prepared with pre packaged meals, there wont be any "emergency" when it comes to figuring out what to feed the dogs if you have to leave. You just send frozen meats instead of bagged kibble. When we leave town, we have someone stay at the house and just give them detailed directions on what to do and how to feed. Never had an issue with that.


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## g00dgirl (Nov 18, 2009)

It really is easy to do once you know how much to feed.
I usually don't portion out the meat in advance. I don't have anything but the freezer in my refrigerator so I am not stocking up large quantities either. (though I would like to!).

The basis of my dogs' diet is chicken leg quarters. For each meal I grab a quarter out of the fridge, split it in half with a meat cleaver and feed each dog one half. Stick the cleaver and cutting board in the sink til the next meal, wash my hands and I'm done! If your husband finds this too difficult you could just pre-portion and freeze (feed frozen for even less mess!) or keep out a couple days worth in the fridge in a container too.

One way to keep it less messy is to feed in their crates, if you use crates. Or to gate them in the kitchen. Honestly, the chicken hardly hits the floor with mine though so they take it onto the dinning room carpet and it's fine. They even lick the carpet clean. I do have a shampooer that I use once or twice a month anyway.


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## shortdariwanda (Mar 8, 2010)

I did a test run tonight to see how it would be. I normally feed them in the kitchen in their individual bowls. Tonight I put a small portion of raw meat in their bowls to see how they would take to it. They jumped at it immediately, but instead of staying in the kitchen, they grabbed it and ran into the carpeted living room to find a comfortable place to lie down and enjoy their treat. We had to chase them around the house to grab it from them and then put them outside in our screened-in porch to feed it to them... The hubby wasn't too thrilled about it... And crates are out of the question because they absolutely hate them. I'm going to have to figure something else out. Ha. 

Well I have time considering that I still have a huge container full of Orijen that needs to be consumed.


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## g00dgirl (Nov 18, 2009)

If they won't stay put you could tether them to the cabinets, perhaps?


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Just feed them outside?


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

I taught our Cocker Spaniel puppy to eat on a rug that I just bleach when it gets gross. She's pretty clean, now that she's got the hang of it, so I doubt I'll have to wash more than once a week, if that. 
It took her one day (three meals) to learn to eat on the rug, and now I can just give her her food and walk away and she stays on her rug. I'm thinking I'm going to train my Corgi to do it that way too because feeding outsde can get inconvenient if it's raining, having four dogs. 
I also have a little half bathroom that is all tile, and if it's raining outside, i've fed them in there, and then just swiffer the floor after, takes like two seconds.


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## harrkim120 (Feb 2, 2010)

If I were you, I would just feed them on your porch. You know there's no way that they're just going to stay in one place...especially if they can't chew it up quickly. I feed Brady out on that patio thingy, and he licks the concrete clean. :tongue:

What did you give them anyway?


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## Jodysmom (Jan 9, 2010)

harrkim120 said:


> They're bigger rats and run a little over a pound a piece. He's not ready for it yet, but eventually yes, he will get some rat goodness. :biggrin: It's meat and organs and bones. There's just a bad stigma with them. And at least I know where these have come from.
> 
> We'll see how I do with the skinning of them.



Harrkim:
We buy frozen mice and smaller rats for our corn snake! I guess they are meat! Interesting that we don't question what to feed our reptile friends. Of course we feed them what they would find in the wild. In the case of our corn snake she eats adult mice or small rats. 

To the OP: I am only feeding 1 dog raw but I have been able to find all of my meat through our local grocery store and Super WalMart. I can sometimes find bone-in chicken breasts for .79 a lb. I have also found chicken quarters for .33 a lb. WalMart carries the beef kidney and liver I use but it is over 1 a lb. I also look for pork steaks on sale and just cut them at home. Raw Fed Dogs buys Pork Boston Butt (big cuts of pork)and has the meat butcher cut them for him. If I fed more than one dog, I probably would join a coop but so far raw is affordable. I figure I am also saving money not getting teeth cleanings and unnecessary medications/tests for the loose stool our GSD had on dog kibble.

Shortdariwanda: I read over your original post and realized I didn't really help answer any of your questions. I'll let the other people who have a few dogs answer those.


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## Jodysmom (Jan 9, 2010)

shortdariwanda said:


> I did a test run tonight to see how it would be. I normally feed them in the kitchen in their individual bowls. Tonight I put a small portion of raw meat in their bowls to see how they would take to it. They jumped at it immediately, but instead of staying in the kitchen, they grabbed it and ran into the carpeted living room to find a comfortable place to lie down and enjoy their treat. We had to chase them around the house to grab it from them and then put them outside in our screened-in porch to feed it to them... The hubby wasn't too thrilled about it... And crates are out of the question because they absolutely hate them. I'm going to have to figure something else out. Ha.
> 
> Well I have time considering that I still have a huge container full of Orijen that needs to be consumed.



I feed Jody, our GSD, in our covered garage. I have use an old metal cake pan and just put her food on it. I have the cake pan on an old throw rug and Jody lifts it out of the pan and eats it from the rug. I stay with her because I love watching her eat and she eats quickly. I wash the rug every once in a while but I feed food partially frozen so really isn't a mess. Plus, it slow our girl down.


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