# Dog Attacks



## Kats (Jul 20, 2011)

(A bystander brought her and her dog to our Clinic) It was a very busy day at work, the waiting room was full of clients, exam rooms full, when in comes two ladies, one with their pet in her arms so I took the lady into our clinic so we could do what we could for her and her beloved pet. This lady was in a scooter shopping at Zellers when another lady was shopping for flowers opened her van door and out shot 3 rotti's, one of the dog's attacked the little dog sitting on the ladies lap on the scooter and had it in it's mouth shaking her little dog back and forth. People where trying to pry the dog of her dog with no avail, one man was kicking the dog and another man threw his hot coffee on the dogs balls and at that point the dog let go and the little dog took off and was found a few minutes later. The little dog's name was Sam and the owner was very very upset for her Sam did not make it. The lady with the rotti's took off and there were 2 police cars in our parking lot. This was not a good day to say the least. That little dog was a yorkie and it was all the lady had. As for the lady with the rotti's I really hope she does the right thing and at least pay the vet bills for her. We see this alot, (dog attacks) people need to be in control of their dogs (big or small )and have them on a leash or muzzled if they are not good with other animals or not good in public places. I used to go to the off leash dog parks with my GSDs & Sheltie but people bring their dogs that are not good with other dogs and mine were attacked on leash several times. I have full control of my dogs and I know how to handle German Shepherds but these people really piss me off with their aggressive dogs (mostly bully breeds) So the next time I go for a walk with my dogs and another dog comes for us I will do my best to make sure my dogs and myself are not hurt.

Kats


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

I normally walk with a stun gun. I have seen enough dog fights to last me two lifetimes. I'm so sorry for the lady's Yorkie. I hope they find the other woman, and arrest her for something.


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

It's unfortunate that people are so irresponsible with their dogs- and even more unfortunate that it's *always* the dogs that pay the price in the end. We went to a dog expo thing, and a black lab was lunging very aggressively at every single dog that walked by, and these people were hanging out at the entrance gate. We walked by and I had Zailey and Mousse, and his owner (one of those guys that you can tell thinks he's a total bada$$) shouted to me, "Hey, do you think big guy there could take on my dog?" -blank stare- I replied "Could he? Probably. We'll never know, I don't promote aggression or dog fighting." (with a few more 4 letter words thrown in there) I couldn't believe it! This other couple I was talking to had a big mastiff that randomly lunged at Mousse's (sleeping!) face. Seriously, where do people get off bringing dogs like that in public- and to a freaking dog event much less! 

This woman at a park I live by had her little Doxie at her feet, and as we walked by with Zailey off-leash (her dog also off leash) I told Zailey leave it once and she stayed right by me. This woman yelled at me and told me I had "no business" having a dog "like that" (uhh... like what, lady?) at a park with children! I ignored her, walked on, and played a nice 30 minute game of fetch. On our way back out, her little sh**head dog lunged out and bit Zailey on the leg, leaving two punctures. Zailey jumped, obviously startled because she didn't even pay attention to the little dog nor did she see it coming, she was more focused on the treats I had (working on off leash reliability- making GREAT progress) she kind of kicked it a little, but didn't step on it or anything, the little dog was FINE. Her reaction? Picked up her little Kujo dog, and yelled at me to "keep that thing away before it KILLS someone!" No joke. 

I'm amazed at people.


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## Maxy24 (Mar 5, 2011)

It's really awful to hear stories like that, not only because of what that poor little dog and his owners had to go through but because of what it does for the image of the breed. Now every person at that store and their families and everyone else they told thinks Rotties are killers because some idiots couldn't keep their DA dogs on a leash. Those dogs could be the absolute most sweet, people friendly dogs in the world, but their owners are idiots so now a whole bunch of people wouldn't bat an eye if they got banned. You say so many people have aggressive bully breeds which absolutely kills me as APBTs are my favorite breed. They should love people, all people, much like a well bred Labrador. But people who think it's soooooo cool that they are bred to kill dogs buy them to be mean penis extensions and they get a bad reputation. Or they can't handle their DA dogs (pits are known to have dog aggression problems) and let them do something like that. It kills me because it gives all the absolutely wonderful pit bulls (which are way, way more common than the people aggressive ones) a bad name, and makes people want them dead. People need to realize that when they get one of these breeds, that unfortunately everyone is just waiting for them to do something wrong and that if they do, it could mean death for hundreds of dogs.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

PUT. YOUR. DOG. ON. A. LEASH.

how hard is that.

and why is it such a difficult concept

it's not the breed. it's the owner. put them to sleep. leave the dogs alone.


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## CavePaws (Jan 25, 2011)

PuppyPaws said:


> It's unfortunate that people are so irresponsible with their dogs- and even more unfortunate that it's *always* the dogs that pay the price in the end. We went to a dog expo thing, and a black lab was lunging very aggressively at every single dog that walked by, and these people were hanging out at the entrance gate. We walked by and I had Zailey and Mousse, and his owner (one of those guys that you can tell thinks he's a total bada$$) shouted to me, "Hey, do you think big guy there could take on my dog?" -blank stare- I replied "Could he? Probably. We'll never know, I don't promote aggression or dog fighting." (with a few more 4 letter words thrown in there) I couldn't believe it! This other couple I was talking to had a big mastiff that randomly lunged at Mousse's (sleeping!) face. Seriously, where do people get off bringing dogs like that in public- and to a freaking dog event much less!
> I'm amazed at people.


I'll tell you where people get off bringing dog aggressive dogs to "dog events" because I DO. I bring my dog aggressive dog, Indi to dog events often enough. I've brought her to a dog expo where she lunged and snarled a few times. She was perhaps 6 months old at the time and MAYBE 35 lbs. The size doesn't matter because the dog can still do damage, but the point is I brought her so I could do counter conditioning. She had a gentle leader on so I had control of her muzzle and we kept about 6 ft space from every dog we saw. I'd say the day ended well as I had her heeling through a crowd of dogs by the end of the expo; a perfect heel, not looking at any other dog. The other dog events I bring her to are agility trials. You'll see TONS of dog aggressive dogs at agility events, we just gentle leader up our dogs and walk, hoping everyone else is diligent enough not to give their dogs an arm and a couple legs of leash space. If they do, then we people with the dog aggressive dogs suffer. Why? Because the owners with "friendly" dogs don't pay ANY attention at all to their dog and our dog reacts when a dog gets up in their business. It SUCKS. At some events I have to carry Indi through the busy aisles because no one will keep their dog in a heel right next to them. Another kind of event Indi goes to would be obedience and agility seminars, where people will often times let their "friendly" dogs run loose. I've had someone say my dog should have been put to sleep because she growled at their dog. You know what I wanted to say to her? Burn in hell. I'm trying my hardest to get my dog to the point where she can live a normal life with me not having to yank her gentle leader to keep her from taking another dogs ear off because that other dog ran up to her without the owner even asking if the dogs could meet. If I don't take her out to get her desensitized she will get worse. That is a promise. What happens if one day an accident happens and she gets loose? I want her to have the skills to be able to avoid other dogs and show calming signals; rather than go into stalk and kill mode. 

People with dog aggressive dogs can be well meaning. If they are diligent with their dog, your dog won't get hurt. Your dog may get growled or snapped at for no apparent reason but at least there isn't damage done. I feel for other DILIGENT and RESPONSIBLE aggressive dog owners who only want the best for their aggressive dogs; which is to be able to live a fairly normal life (which only comes with tons of hard work and desensitization).

In no way am I saying what you experienced with that guy with the black lab was diligent or responsible...In all honesty he shouldn't own a dog and will probably lose his to his egotistical, ignorant, stupidity. It's people who own "dangerous" dogs and are proud in a sense that I detest. So I'm right there with you on that...I just want to make it clear that just because your dog is growled or snapped at doesn't mean the owner is a monster, should put a cage muzzle on it, or keep it in solitary confinement for life. 


Anywho, this situation with the yorkie and rotties. Sounds like an accident if the dogs bolted out of the car...But again, if she knew her dogs are aggressive she should have been MUCH more prepared (leashes on, gentle leaders on, having a dog with a good WAIT....)Anyone who refuses to at the very least leash their aggressive dog, and teach them very simple basic obedience commands really has no business owning one. 

Anyway. That's my $.02 worth on aggressive dogs and dog fights. My heart goes out to the yorkie AND the aggressive dogs who will probably lose their life over this.


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

I'm just going to put my two sense in as the bull breeds always get blamed for everything!!!!!!!!!!!! I was recently up in Langley for several days at a Quarter Horse horse show at Thunderbird Show Park, Kats you might know it. I had my B.T. girl with me on leash at all times and they had several social events (dinners) for the exhibitors most nights. Two times when I am sitting at the table with my dog at my side a Schnauzer who was at another table and on a long leash lunges at my dog and snaps, mind you my friends say to me "what did your dog do?" I'm soooo tired of the F888ing crap, they all know my dog is socialized and plays well with other dogs but in the long run it is always the Bull breeds that get blamed when they don't even do anything wrong............................


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## lucky (Jan 8, 2011)

whiteleo said:


> I'm just going to put my two sense in as the bull breeds always get blamed for everything!!!!!!!!!!!! I was recently up in Langley for several days at a Quarter Horse horse show at Thunderbird Show Park, Kats you might know it. I had my B.T. girl with me on leash at all times and they had several social events (dinners) for the exhibitors most nights. Two times when I am sitting at the table with my dog at my side a Schnauzer who was at another table and on a long leash lunges at my dog and snaps, mind you my friends say to me "what did your dog do?" I'm soooo tired of the F888ing crap, they all know my dog is socialized and plays well with other dogs but in the long run it is always the Bull breeds that get blamed when they don't even do anything wrong............................


This is so true ... my dads fiance has 4 tiny dogs (chi/yorkie/2 chi mixes) they are horrendously vicious with other dogs and people, I cannot go for walks with them anymore because my dads fiance is an embarrassment, she just laughs when they do it as if to say "they are only tiny, they can get away with it" one day one of them will bite someone or provoke another dog into an attack and it will be all my dads fiances fault. One of them has bit lucky (didn't do no damage but it's not the point) ... I my personal experience I have seen a LOT more aggressive tiny dogs


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

One of the way i socialized my dog was to take him to dog class where he was exposed to 80-100 dogs in one room - you can't freak out over that many dogs, it's overload. He's not aggressive but he was extremely reactive, to the point of dragging me down and us wallering around in the road with him frothing at the mouth and doing this piercing screaming thing.

And alot of the dogs at dog class were aggressive, the trainer was very, very strict about not letting your dogs interact with other dogs. They were supposed to be focused on their owners and what they were doing. The only trouble we had was when an owner would be not paying attention and start chatting with someone and let their dog get too close to another one - and we also learned how to read body language better. 

It was a good experience, and it also taught me that just because I like my dog to interact doesn't mean I can walk up to start visiting a dog on the street without asking first. We go to the dog park and he can visit with all the dogs there as much as he wants to.


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## kevin bradley (Aug 9, 2009)

Simply put... if you cannot control your Dog and it has exhibited ANY type of agressiveness towards Dogs... you probably should not have that Dog. I've lifted weights most of my life, deadlifted 400+ and benched 280... I'm not saying this to boast(the numbers actually aren't extraordinary in the world of lifting) but to illustrate the point that I HAVE TROUBLE controlling some Dogs who are Dog agressive.... so What on earth is some lady or older man gonna do when his 3 Rotti's go nuts? NO ONE SHOULD HAVE 3 ROTTI'S inside an office. Period. They need to bring one in per visit WITH someone who can control them. Even ONE can be a handful. I'd have some strict rules if I ran an office... no way you would be allowed to have 3 Dogs like that to one person(I'm not sure how many people were trying to control the 3 Rotti's in this case but if all 3 got loose, something wasn't right). Just my thoughts.


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## SerenityFL (Sep 28, 2010)

I am anxious to walk my dogs down the street any more to a near by park, (not dog park), because a few dogs have come barreling out of their yards at us even though we were not on their property. 

One day I was walking the boy hoodlum, on the public sidewalk through the neighborhood, training him. A dog was out in the yard of one of the houses we pass, saw us and came flying towards us barking, (not friendly). I got between the dog and my boy and yelled at it. We then continued on towards the park.

On the way back, I crossed the street when I neared the house to avoid another confrontation. We got past the house, started to cross the street back, (because there is no sidewalk on the other side), and that damn dog came flying down the sidewalk at us again when we were, literally, in the middle of the road. I had to stop, in the middle of the fricken road, with cars going both directions while that dog came at us, barking and threatening us and we weren't even on the property. Again I stood between my boy and that dog and I told him in the most menacing, threatening, deep voice I could muster, "Get the F*** BACK!!!!!!" while cars in both directions had to stop so they wouldn't hit us.

After that I did walk by there a few more times, always checking, really looking in to that yard for that dog. One time the owner of the house was pulling out in their car and saw me really looking in to their yard, all around the house, (with my eyes), and glared at me. Please, come and say something to me, please do. 

Another time, we were walking, made it safely past that dog's house, to the park and were on our way back when a fat, (FAT), black lab came hurtling down the driveway towards us. (Again I was with the boy.) There was some teen at the top of the driveway shooting hoops, completely oblivious that his dog was now chasing someone down. I yelled, "Hey! Hey!! HEY!!!!" to get that kid's attention. By that time the fat, (FAT), black lab had made it to us and was circling us. I was about to kick that dog when the teen finally got there and pulled "Zeke" off.

And finally, one other time...made it past the first dog's house, made it past fat, (FAT), black lab's house, whew....except, no. &*$#@!! ANOTHER dog in the yard without a fricken leash or fence saw us walking, ON THE SIDEWALK, minding our own business and started to run towards us. I, AGAIN, put my boy behind me, stepped towards this dog and said, "NO! You will NOT!" while the owner stood on his porch and stared, doing NOTHING.

I WILL hurt a dog if it comes after us and does any attack. I will. And if any of those three dogs EVER comes after us again, I am going to file a complaint. I should be able to walk down the fricken public sidewalk, with my dogs, and not be harassed. I've seen other people, older people, kids, people with dogs, walking down this sidewalk, I'm not the only one who uses it for that purpose. NONE of us should be threatened by any dog. 

I don't want to have to hurt a dog but I will do it if it means protecting myself and my "pack". And since I'm seeing that people around here are not inclined to keep their dogs under control, have them properly trained or do NOTHING about it when their dog does chase after someone, I am going to look for something that I can carry, (or get my concealed permit), that will ensure that any dog who does attack will not ever attack again.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

cavepaws...when i can clone you a thousand million times, i would be more than happy to have dogs who have a problem where i am.

unfortunately, there are too few of you.


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## SerenityFL (Sep 28, 2010)

I'm not quite sure what has happened, maybe it's age...but the boy never seemed to have issues when I lived in Miami. We had other dogs to play with, we had gone to a dog park one time and he did fine, when I would take him to the vet I never had to think, "Oh God, I hope there's no other dog there" because he was fine.

But here? There's two dogs who live here, there's tons of dogs all down the street, (in homes), and he wants to tear them apart. One of the dogs, the Afghan dog, he's starting to come around a bit and he didn't attack the Golden a few weeks ago when the owner came out to the back yard with the dog not knowing mine were already out there...we're in serious training, (NOT Petco Fluff Ball training, either), and we're seeing some progress but what the hell happened?

And I agree with CavePaws wholeheartedly...when you're training them, eventually you are going to have to bring them around other dogs. How ELSE are you going to train them? With a stuffed animal? You work hard on training them certain things until they reach the point that it's time to go and have them be around other dogs. And they MUST learn. 

The only way you're going to be able to teach them how to act around other dogs is to bring them around other dogs.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

We walk all over the place - and it's why i carry the stun gun. So far, the noise of it has scared other dogs off - but most are not aggressive, they are just uncontrolled by their owners, out wandering the neighborhood. That doesn't mean it doesn't freak me out when they come running up to us.

Most dogs, even when barking, don't really want to attack. They just want us to get out of their area. There was only one time when my dog was truly attacked, by a Rottweiler who broke through his fence as we walked by.And he didn't growl or bark, he attacked us on a pitch black night and the only warning we had was his feet kicking up the gravel on their driveway.

My 14 year old dog had $900 worth of vet bills and I wish I could have sued for pain and suffering also because he had alot of it. So when a dog comes at us making no noise and with his head down, I normally use the stun gun to make the noise and get him away from us.

All other dogs, we just keep walking and I don't let my dog get distracted from what he is doing, which is walking. Sometimes a dog will trail along with us, sometimes barking and sometimes not, but they go home as we get further away from their territory.


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

CavePaws said:


> I'll tell you where people get off bringing dog aggressive dogs to "dog events" because I DO. I bring my dog aggressive dog, Indi to dog events often enough. I've brought her to a dog expo where she lunged and snarled a few times. She was perhaps 6 months old at the time and MAYBE 35 lbs. The size doesn't matter because the dog can still do damage, but the point is I brought her so I could do counter conditioning. She had a gentle leader on so I had control of her muzzle and we kept about 6 ft space from every dog we saw. I'd say the day ended well as I had her heeling through a crowd of dogs by the end of the expo; a perfect heel, not looking at any other dog. The other dog events I bring her to are agility trials. You'll see TONS of dog aggressive dogs at agility events, we just gentle leader up our dogs and walk, hoping everyone else is diligent enough not to give their dogs an arm and a couple legs of leash space. If they do, then we people with the dog aggressive dogs suffer. Why? Because the owners with "friendly" dogs don't pay ANY attention at all to their dog and our dog reacts when a dog gets up in their business. It SUCKS. At some events I have to carry Indi through the busy aisles because no one will keep their dog in a heel right next to them. Another kind of event Indi goes to would be obedience and agility seminars, where people will often times let their "friendly" dogs run loose. I've had someone say my dog should have been put to sleep because she growled at their dog. You know what I wanted to say to her? Burn in hell. I'm trying my hardest to get my dog to the point where she can live a normal life with me not having to yank her gentle leader to keep her from taking another dogs ear off because that other dog ran up to her without the owner even asking if the dogs could meet. If I don't take her out to get her desensitized she will get worse. That is a promise. What happens if one day an accident happens and she gets loose? I want her to have the skills to be able to avoid other dogs and show calming signals; rather than go into stalk and kill mode.
> 
> People with dog aggressive dogs can be well meaning. If they are diligent with their dog, your dog won't get hurt. Your dog may get growled or snapped at for no apparent reason but at least there isn't damage done. I feel for other DILIGENT and RESPONSIBLE aggressive dog owners who only want the best for their aggressive dogs; which is to be able to live a fairly normal life (which only comes with tons of hard work and desensitization).
> 
> ...


I think it's safe to say that you are in the minority, and therefore the exception, when it comes to dog owners. What you do with your dog, is not what I'm complaining about. 
What I'm complaining about if people with aggressive dogs that come to these events, and allow their dogs to misbehave. Lunging aggressively at the end of the leash while the owner stands and talks to his buddies is not acceptable, and they have no business being there. If your dog is dog aggressive enough to lunge at my sleeping dog, and you're not in control to prevent that, you have no business being there. It's all about being in control of your dog. Most owners are not. 
Most of the dog events I've been to ALLOW off leash dogs, at least in some areas. I don't feel that someone with a DA dog has any business being at an event like that. I'm sorry, but I don't. If leashes are required and someone breaks that rule, then yes, it's on them, and that's annoying... but if leashes are not required, no aggressive dogs have any business being there. I'm sorry if that offends you or anyone else with aggressive animals, but I believe it to be true. (And i know that a lot of idiots ignore leash rules, and I think that's annoying, because there are some responsible people, like yourself, who are there to work with their animals, and inconsiderate people ruin that, and in the end it would be your dog's "fault" if anything happened. It's simply not fair.)
But, it is NOT fair to say that owners of friendly dogs don't pay attention. In fact, I resent that statement quite a lot. I pay attention to my dogs, and I don't let them charge on up to passing dogs, that's poor manners. If they're in sniffing distance without pulling the leash, no, I'm not going to yank them back. I don't assume that all dogs are friendly. I do think that if you own a dog aggressive dog, it is YOUR responsibility to keep that dog OUT of reach. Dogs are dogs. I control my dogs in public. They can not pull, they can not charge, and they can not get in the face of other dogs. But, they also do not have to ignore the fact that there are dogs around. I take them places for exposure and socialization, and I will not disallow them to recognize their surroundings in such a way, because they are well-rounded, socialized, friendly dogs. If they had any behavior issues that I was working on, then yes, it would be the case.


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## CavePaws (Jan 25, 2011)

I didn't mean for it to sound like, "All people with friendly dogs pay absolutely no attention to what their dog is doing" just as much as you probably did not mean what you said as "All people with aggressive dogs pay absolutely no attention to what their dog is doing". I wouldn't take my statement the way you read it to heart. In fact, please don't. You, like many of us, are one of the exceptions when it comes to dog owners. I can't tell you how many people I see at shows, seminars, and events stopping and talking and paying absolutely no attention to their dog. If your dog is VERY well behaved, has a perfect stay, then I really don't give a hoot if you put your dog in a stay and pay no attention to your dog while you are browsing at a kiosk at a doggy expo. If your dog is not in a stay and is at the end of a six foot leash sniffing everyone's butt then yes I have a problem with you. There is a huge difference between someone with well behaved friendly dogs like you who do not have to CONSTANTLY be on guard, and completely oblivious people with well behaved yet friendly dogs who pay no attention. That being said, it is flat out dangerous to let a dog just approach another dog on leash at random without consulting the person holding that dogs leash. I'm sure you realize this, you own a boarding facility where dogs are regularly brought in and out of kennels down aisles and such. So, please, do not in any way think I am trying to insult you! I'm clarifying that people with dogs who snap are not the devil and the dogs themselves are not the devil. I completely agree that a dog aggressive dog that has done damage to another animal in the past would be pretty out of place in a dog park type situation. I don't take my dogs to dog parks. Ever. Not even my friendliest dog. I don't trust that people with dogs like my aggressive dog Indi won't be irresponsible and try to flood their dogs brain by putting them in an environment like an off leash dog park. 

I can tell you, when I go to seminars I bring a crate and a crate cover. At seminars people do often allow their dogs off leash to potty and what not, sometimes a certain group of returning dogs likes to play. Mine does not. I make it very clear that my dog is crated for a reason and if anyone lets their dog run up to her crate she is going to lunge, growl, and snap. I am not going to waste my dogs potential to be an amazing agility dog because other people want their dogs running loose and can't handle a dog being a freaked out dog. We make sure when Indi is running her course all dogs are leashed.

Trust me. I am pro-active. I do keep track of where my dog is and I do keep track of where everyone else's dog is. Unfortunately, no amount of me keeping track of where my dog is will help when another dog owner is talking, paying no attention to their dog, and suddenly it bolts away from them or to the end of the leash right into my path. I can't predict things like that, and it's the thought of moments like that which make my hair stand on end. You won't ever know how it feels to own a dog that has actually done enough damage to cause another dog to go to the vet for stitches until you've owned one and have to counter condition them. Honestly, for me at first it was like someone was holding a gun up to my head and telling me to keep walking forward towards the edge of a cliff. I've paid the $400 vet bill because of another owners "accident". It's not fun, but what I'm saying is just as much as "friendly" dogs can be the victims of growling and snapping, "aggressive" dogs can be the victims of incompetent dog owners. 

That's all. If you get anything from what I said in this post please refer back to the top of it where I said you misunderstood what I meant. I don't only own aggressive dogs.  I own some pretty darn friendly ones too; so in a way I'd be insulting myself if what you thought I meant were in fact what I meant.

edit:



magicre said:


> cavepaws...when i can clone you a thousand million times, i would be more than happy to have dogs who have a problem where i am.
> 
> unfortunately, there are two few of you.


Honestly I think there are too few resources for people with aggressive dogs that don't cost an arm and a leg. If you own an aggressive dog and have no clue what you're doing, trying to train them to be "friendly" can be like blindly stabbing jello in attempt to cut it into a perfect circle. I honestly wish I could give people with dogs like mine hope and encouragement. It's so easy to feel alone when you have a dog that seems like it wants to hurt every other dog it lays eye upon. And on top of that you're told to counter-condition them should you seek advice from a behaviorist?! Honestly I think there should be a support group for owners with dogs who have aggressive tendencies. Hell, I know I need one.


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## DoglovingSenior (Jun 26, 2011)

Sorry I've gotten a "tad" annoyed & will go to bed rather than become further annoyed. I have owned 
Rottweilers for the last 21 years-yep, 2 & 3 at a time. Yes, I took these "aggressive" dogs into the vets ALL at one time, because I knew my dogs (as far as we humans can know an animal). Before my Rottweilers I owned GSD's. and now I have an APBT. I have never, NEVER had a bite incident. My Rottie whose body was wracked with cancer NEVER had to be muzzled through any examination . Now I also have an APBT-he is a gem.

I have a friend with APBT's whose one male became dog aggressive-WHY? Because he kept taking him to the darned DOG Park ( I told him not to do this) he was under control-other dogs were not THey-you know the non-aggressive Labs & Goldens would pick on him & their owners thought it was so cute- he became dog aggressive. My son (MMA) recently had to hit the jaw of a Golden so hard that it made the dog bleed. His 10 mth APBT puppy was off lead getting ready to go in the pool & thought the Golden who didn't even have a collar on wanted to play. The dog had other plans the pup was shocked and puzzled-the Goldens stupid owner was shout for my son to get her dog for her since his collar was on the fence. ANY DOG can be aggressive the Pom who killed the infant left on the bed (stupid uncle), the toy poodle who killed its elderly owner. Any dog has the ability to bit & I am just tired of certain breeds getting a BuM RAP because they have owners who probably should not own a dog at all! 
I wonder how many of these "non-aggressive" breeds could pass the temperament society's test? APBT's consistently score higher than most dogs including the so-called dogs who won't bite you breeds. They average 82 & higher, the average is &&! My dogs passed, did yours?


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## DoglovingSenior (Jun 26, 2011)

Sorry, the average score is 77. Good Night-I hate to get angry like this. I guess that I ex[ect too much of "dog people".


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## DoglovingSenior (Jun 26, 2011)

Just checked the latest stats American Temperament Test Society, Inc. | A sound mind in a sound body The "Bully" Dogs-ALL of them and Rottweilers STILL beat out MANY of the other breeds and look at how many of them are out there!


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

On bully breeds...
I work with dogs in a social environment. I encounter over 100 dogs in a months time. They are off leash, with other dogs and people. We record incidents if ANY bite occurs, be it dog on person, or dog on dog. I have this folder in front of me. Shall we? In 4 years time: 

1. Toy Poodle bit staff member on ankle, unprovoked. 2 punctures.
2. Mini Schnauzer bit staff member while being lead to the yard for temperament screening. Dog was nervous. No punctures, one scratch.
3. Golden retriever/ lab mix attacked Boxer for sniffing its rear. Dog had been in our care for several days prior without any issues at all. Boxer had several punctures, none required stitches and were treated in-house. 
4. Black Lab bit Rottie mix in the lobby.2 punctures, no vet required. 
5. Toy Poodle bit staff member during a bath. No puncture, several scratches. 
6. Lab on lab fight, believed to be over posessiveness of the couch. Both had been boarding for one night without social aggressive tendencies. The attacking lab was food- aggressive.1 torn ear requiring stitches, a few minor punctures. 
7. Small jack Russell mix bit staff member while taking its collar off for a bath. No injuries noted. 
8. Yellow lab bit staff member on the leg while entering play yard. Dog did have fence-guarding tendencies with other dogs, first issue with people. 
9. Golden retriever Pointer mix bit heeler mix on the rear. Escalated game of chase. small minor puncture.
10. Lab attacked Shih Tzu mix in kennel. Dogs lived together and were instructed to eat and sleep in same kennel, fight was over a toy. Shih Tzu suffered torn ear, punctured lung, and was in ER for several days, but did make it. The lab also killed both family cats.



There are a couple more so minor I'm not sure at they are even recorded, but as you can see.... bully breeds really don't seem to be more of a problem than any other breed. this year we had to stop accepting pits because of our liability insurance but we are hoping to have that lifted as they were never any more of an issue. Dogs are a reactive species. For the record, this is the lowest incident rate of any kennel I've worked at.


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## CavePaws (Jan 25, 2011)

Looks like Labs and Goldens seem to be making it to the top of your list, Linsey...I would assume this is in part due to the fact that those are two of the most common pet dog breeds in America right now.


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## chowder (Sep 7, 2008)

SerenityFL said:


> I'm not quite sure what has happened, maybe it's age...but the boy never seemed to have issues when I lived in Miami. We had other dogs to play with, we had gone to a dog park one time and he did fine, when I would take him to the vet I never had to think, "Oh God, I hope there's no other dog there" because he was fine.


It probably is age with your boy. The only dog aggressive Chow that I had was just fine until she was two years old. From that point on she just got more and more dog aggressive with each year. 

I think it is safe to say that everyone on this forum is an exception to the norm as far as training and handling their dogs. When we complain about people and their dogs, it is the general public we are referring to. And the general public as a rule are idiots when handling their dogs. I walk down my road and half the dogs in the neighborhood come running out their driveways at me and try and eat Rocky and Shade. I carry a collapsible baton right now because I know my big bad Chow and Rottie mixes aren't going to fight unless they absolutely have to (Rocky will run away). If there is a fight, my dogs are going to be the ones that get blamed because of their breeds. 

Right now my two sweet 90 pound boys are confined to one room of the house because my MIL's 8 pound poodle will bite them if she is in the room with them!


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

DoglovingSenior said:


> Just checked the latest stats American Temperament Test Society, Inc. | A sound mind in a sound body The "Bully" Dogs-ALL of them and Rottweilers STILL beat out MANY of the other breeds and look at how many of them are out there!


The data has been out there, but people choose to ignore the fact that pit bulls really are extremely good natured. We had a pit-chow mix that would get in the car with anyone who opened their door - and it wasn't to eat them!

Unfortunately, too many people use them to prove they are tough, like buying a car with alot of horsepower to adjust for a lack in other areas. And someone who is looking to be tough can't have a dog who is a weenie; you want the most bada## dog/car in the neighborhood. We have one fellow at our dog park who is like that - he "protection trained" his dog but in reality all he did was train it to be aggressive and nasty with dogs AND people. Luckily, our dog park has two sections, and when he is there we just go on the other side.


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## catahoulamom (Sep 23, 2010)

My Finnigan is a reactive dog. I do take him out in public places with people and other dogs (not overly crowded or where they will be off leash and run up to him unannounced). I take him to PetSmart, parks (that aren't off-leash), and the beach, because I know what his triggers are. If I see a boxer coming our way, before he even gets the chance to react I turn the other way and treat him for not reacting (he doesn't like boxers, or really any flat faced dogs - I think it has to do with how excitable and overzealous they often are??). I will NEVER, EVER, EVER take him to a dog park, or any other dog I own, because that is where he learned some of his antisocial behaviors (believe it or not). 

I wish there were more educated, responsible owners of "aggressive dogs" - most of them are just kept in the house or thrown in the yard and taken on a couple walks a year at the most because they "don't like other dogs". That really is the worst thing you can do for them.


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

Dog parks! don't like and will never use them.................................They do nothing positive in my opinion but give the owners more social behavior as this is mostly what they are there for.


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## Tobi (Mar 18, 2011)

I always had a great experience with the one in redmond... I honestly think the people there are the exception to the rule though, 99% of them were very responsible dog owners imo I went there almost daily for well over a year with Zoey :biggrin:


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## SerenityFL (Sep 28, 2010)

chowder said:


> It probably is age with your boy. The only dog aggressive Chow that I had was just fine until she was two years old. From that point on she just got more and more dog aggressive with each year.
> 
> I think it is safe to say that everyone on this forum is an exception to the norm as far as training and handling their dogs. When we complain about people and their dogs, it is the general public we are referring to. And the general public as a rule are idiots when handling their dogs. I walk down my road and half the dogs in the neighborhood come running out their driveways at me and try and eat Rocky and Shade. I carry a collapsible baton right now because I know my big bad Chow and Rottie mixes aren't going to fight unless they absolutely have to (Rocky will run away). If there is a fight, my dogs are going to be the ones that get blamed because of their breeds.
> 
> Right now my two sweet 90 pound boys are confined to one room of the house because my MIL's 8 pound poodle will bite them if she is in the room with them!


I think it might be a combination of age and his introduction to the two dogs that live here; my neighbors dogs. And I think much is also my own damn fault. 

He is about a year and three months old and I have read, (I'm certain I will be corrected if this is wrong), that when dogs get to around two years of age, they start to "fight" for dominance with other dogs. (Typically within their own "pack".) I'm not saying age is the answer, I'm saying it's something I'm not crossing off the list.

We moved to a house, HUGE house, so huge it's split in to three units and each unit is like it's own house, and we have a gigantic back yard. Two other dogs live and share this back yard.

I have done so many things right like always walk out the door first, steps, gate, archways, whatever, I go first. I make them go to their crates and sit before they get their food. They are never allowed to snatch food out of my hand and they are not allowed to jump up to put their paws on the counter and search for things, they do well with this. 

All the toys are MY toys, not theirs. I will hand them out, I will take them away if they decide to fight over a stupid toy.

I do not repeat myself when giving an order or command. They get one shot. They don't listen, they get their time out. 

I have worked and worked on heel with the boy...something he never did in Miami due to neighbors who thought it was funny to antagonize him or talk "smack" to him...trying to be more "tough" that my boy...you know, my PUPPY, at the time. IDIOTS. (Let me stop on that rant now.)

I have observed as well as I can who is the dominant one of the pack and I do believe it is the boy. Therefore I feed him first, take him out first, etc.

I did screw up on tiny things like coming to them for petting. I did at one point allow them to be on the bed and couch. I did screw up with the "asking one time" thing, (it is now once and once only and that's it). I have been lenient when I should not have. I have learned from all of this.

So, the boy was thinking he was in charge. The dogs he knew in Miami, he knew since he was a little guy and they put him in his place when he was a little guy. So he respected those dogs. The dogs here, he doesn't know them. The Afghan dog talks a lot of smack. She talks and talks and talks. Problem is, the boy likes to talk as well. And they are like two obnoxious teens trying to out talk each other...and then the boy starts getting all uppity about it, ticked off and stops talking and starts yelling. (In dog language.)

The Golden is high energy. I think the first meeting scared the crap out of the boy. He wasn't used to high energy dogs. He was used to older dogs who may or may not wish to play with him. He's not been around a dog who came bounding on up to him like that. He got all defensive and Pissed! Off!

I made a mistake by tying his leash to a post in the yard and went to pet the Golden to show my boy that the Golden was fine. Shasta went insane. 

I eventually hired one of those trainers that was mentioned above...yes it most certainly IS costing me and arm and a leg...you would not believe how expensive this trainer is. But, his specialty is aggressive dogs and Shasta has become an aggressive dog. Not to people, to other dogs. I learned that when I tied him to a post and went and petted the Golden, I was "joining another pack" so to speak. Well, Shasta thinks he's in charge and what I did was apparently highly insulting to him and he was not having that.

So we train. And train and train and train. Couple of weeks ago, owner of Golden comes out not knowing my dogs were already out. My dogs went flying on over to greet her. (Clearly more training is necessary. Sigh.) Sakari is not a problem. She got over her issue with dogs with the Afghan dog. The Afghan dog did scare her at first and she was not in to it but once she realized that Afghan dog wanted to play with her AND once she realized that Afghan dog was not going to play rough with her, she got over it quick. And NOW? Now she wants to play with every single dog on the planet. 

Anyway, Shasta also went to the owner but he stayed at the bottom of the steps, tongue hanging out, tail wagging, even though the Golden was there. BIG improvement so even though the trainer is ridiculously expensive, some headway is being made. Part of the training is having him in a long down stay while other dogs are around. The Golden was put on a tie out, I put the boy on leash, in a long down stay, just out of reach of the tie out, stood between him and the Golden, my back to Shasta, and all was going beautifully. He was being obedient, he was not acting like an embarrassing ass until the Golden went to play with Sakari. Shasta had himself another righteous fit until I corrected that behavior and put him back in to the long down stay. I decide who we bark at, who we play with, who we greet, who we get pissy with, not him. He's learning this.

But, the point of all of that was, I'm not exactly sure what the trigger was. Was it because he thought he was in charge and that included the back yard even though HE just got there? Was it age? Was it because it was overwhelming and the meeting of two strange dogs scared him to the point that now I can't trust him around other dogs?

Oddly enough, in another post, I wrote about trying to walk my hoodlums down the street on the public sidewalk and that there are some dogs who come flying out to us, as well. Each time I put myself between my boy and that other dog. And I do know the difference between a dog who is playing and one who is looking to fight. Those dogs were not looking to play. Anyway, I put myself between the boy and that other dog and the boy does not act aggressive in that situation.

WEIRD!

At home, trying to introduce dogs to him in a friendly way, he acts like a jerk.

When some foreign dog comes flying out to threaten or attack us, he stays behind me and does not try to take control.

WHAT am I missing?!!?!?!!?

By the way, I like the idea of the collapsible baton. Where do I get one of those?


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## Kats (Jul 20, 2011)

Hi everyone, the lady who had the rotti's had no collars on her dogs so no one could pull the dog of the other , the owner had no control. If one wants to take their aggressive dog to a park or a social event!! have control of that dog or dogs. Yes there are some breeds that get a bad rap, but we see more attacks and bite wounds from bully breeds, but again we see attacks from Labs / Sherpherds/ Goldens/ and more. The J.R and other small breeds can bring the pray drive out in big dogs. I have a neighbour who has 4 Min Pin x's that he takes for walks up and down the road, they bark and snarl at every thing they see and he stands at the end of each driveway of people who have big dogs, even mine and he waits, untill he gets noticed and then it starts he gets the bigger dogs pray drive kicked in(he is an idiot) just wait until the big Lab and Boxer or the Cane Corso get loose. The guy with the 4 little dog has no control over his dogs, when another dog comes up to his dogs they go this way and that way still barking and snarling, his legs are all wrapped up in the leashes( no control. I have seen a guy get dragged by his dogs because he has no control, childern getting knocked down because owners not having any control, people with aggressive dogs with gentle leaders the dog thrashing his head side to side jumping to the point the dog is fee to attack because of no control. Yes you may think that you have control over your dogs but any thing can happen and when it does it is to late. 

Cheers 

Kats


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## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

Funny we are talking about this topic because, this morning, for the first time ever, I had a problem with 2 off leash dogs rushing us. The thing is that there are never unleashed dogs round here, ever. 
I was walking my bike with Windy the cat in her basket and Mollie on her leash. This big dog comes running down a side road, I saw it coming with its teeth showing and hackles up and couldn't get Mol behind me (and the bike) in time. It leapt onto Mollie who of course fought back. I was trying to hang on to my bike and protect the cat with one arm and my dog with the other. My friend was also trying to protect her old pug and her pug puppy as the other dog was circling in behind us.
If I didn't have the bike I would have put myself between Mollie and the other dog the second I saw it, but the only thing I could do was get all staunch and yell at it to bugger off. Funnily enough when I did that, it let go of Mollie (was probably surprised at the Kiwi accent) and backed off a metre or so still showing its teeth and Mollie stood there looking at me. So I told it it was a bad dog and to go home. Then the owner, on a scooter, came down the road, took the dogs and left. Didn't say a word, I know I should have said something but I was trying to settle everyone down. 
So, all in all it was a interesting experience, bit of a shame as it will make Mollie more reactive so I have to make up a lot of ground again. Mollie wasn't hurt, but the thing is that I don't blame the dog at all, the owner obviously knows the dog is aggressive, but still lets it out without a leash. Thats not going to last long around here and I just hope its not the dog that ends up paying.


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## SerenityFL (Sep 28, 2010)

MollyWoppy said:


> Funny we are talking about this topic because, this morning, for the first time ever, I had a problem with 2 off leash dogs rushing us. The thing is that there are never unleashed dogs round here, ever.
> I was walking my bike with Windy the cat in her basket and Mollie on her leash. This big dog comes running down a side road, I saw it coming with its teeth showing and hackles up and couldn't get Mol behind me (and the bike) in time. It leapt onto Mollie who of course fought back. I was trying to hang on to my bike and protect the cat with one arm and my dog with the other. My friend was also trying to protect her old pug and her pug puppy as the other dog was circling in behind us.
> If I didn't have the bike I would have put myself between Mollie and the other dog the second I saw it, but the only thing I could do was get all staunch and yell at it to bugger off. Funnily enough when I did that, it let go of Mollie (was probably surprised at the Kiwi accent) and backed off a metre or so still showing its teeth and Mollie stood there looking at me. So I told it it was a bad dog and to go home. Then the owner, on a scooter, came down the road, took the dogs and left. Didn't say a word, I know I should have said something but I was trying to settle everyone down.
> So, all in all it was a interesting experience, bit of a shame as it will make Mollie more reactive so I have to make up a lot of ground again. Mollie wasn't hurt, but the thing is that I don't blame the dog at all, the owner obviously knows the dog is aggressive, but still lets it out without a leash. Thats not going to last long around here and I just hope its not the dog that ends up paying.


Glad everything turned out ok. Awfully rude of the owner not to even say, "sorry". At least act sheepish!

But I agree with you that it was the Kiwi accent. I'm going to have to try this out if that one dog ever comes at us again. "Buggah oaf!! Baid doge!"

(Or is that an English accent I just did?)


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## wags (Jan 31, 2009)

MollyWoppy said:


> Funny we are talking about this topic because, this morning, for the first time ever, I had a problem with 2 off leash dogs rushing us. The thing is that there are never unleashed dogs round here, ever.
> I was walking my bike with Windy the cat in her basket and Mollie on her leash. This big dog comes running down a side road, I saw it coming with its teeth showing and hackles up and couldn't get Mol behind me (and the bike) in time. It leapt onto Mollie who of course fought back. I was trying to hang on to my bike and protect the cat with one arm and my dog with the other. My friend was also trying to protect her old pug and her pug puppy as the other dog was circling in behind us.
> If I didn't have the bike I would have put myself between Mollie and the other dog the second I saw it, but the only thing I could do was get all staunch and yell at it to bugger off. Funnily enough when I did that, it let go of Mollie (was probably surprised at the Kiwi accent) and backed off a metre or so still showing its teeth and Mollie stood there looking at me. So I told it it was a bad dog and to go home. Then the owner, on a scooter, came down the road, took the dogs and left. Didn't say a word, I know I should have said something but I was trying to settle everyone down.
> So, all in all it was a interesting experience, bit of a shame as it will make Mollie more reactive so I have to make up a lot of ground again. Mollie wasn't hurt, but the thing is that I don't blame the dog at all, the owner obviously knows the dog is aggressive, but still lets it out without a leash. Thats not going to last long around here and I just hope its not the dog that ends up paying.


That's just sickening people are so disrespectful. Take pepper spray with you next time (make sure the winds not blowing your way) and spray that demonic beast! Or another thing is ammonia some woman told me she sprays bad dogs with that Ugh sounds nasty though! But then again that's another dang bottle to carry. Use one of those fanny packs and even red pepper which I believe is a deterrent. But then again its opening the fanny pack in time! But heck ,after I had that male intact rottie come at the dogs, and us, ummm yep I am going to get some type deterrent for sure (probably pepper spray to use if the winds not blowing in my face from Dicks sporting goods store), and it wont be a stick that's just too much baggage pn walks along with water, fanny pack, poop bags ,ect!! Gonna look goofy with a fannie pack but I have had incidents as well walking the pups and nope not gonna take it anymore! Give Mollie a big hug~ poor thing~ from me! Oh and tell that person who lets the dogs out with no leash your gonna call the cops next time too! This is my next move if that kid lets that rottie out the gate again!


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## wags (Jan 31, 2009)

OP~ That is such a sad happening that poor little Yorkie. I don't understand why people of they cannot control their dogs why they don't have them at least leashed so they are not bolting and running like wildfire and if they are attacking other dogs how they even want them then. They need to be controlled by responsible owners. I have had a unnuetered rottie come up fighting with my chocolate lab and settling down and I have seen a while back in my neighborhood the best trained rottie ever. This man walked him without a leash the dog never reacted to anyone or anything other than that man. If that man told that dog to jump through hoops that is how well trained that dog was. See he was a responsible dog owner. As for any dog well, yes they all can bite, do bad things ,and it can happen to anyone anywhere. we all need to be responsible for our dogs, but then why doesn't everyone think that way??? Why do people like this woman with the three rotties think she can let them fly out her van and she runs away from everyone ! Does she not think anyone can get her plate#? Does she really think like a person who leaves a hit and run accident well yes there are those type out there! I hope she gets caught and she gets humiliated by her actions. People need to fess up to what they have done or what they own does! So sad for eh woman in the chair who lost her beloved pet. I feel so bad for her.


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## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

Well, actually I said, 'Bugger off. Bad Dog', the proper way it should be said! Believe it or not, I don't have an accent.....it's you guys who have a wicked one!
From what I can work out, our 'a's sound like your e's and vice versa. And, we say zed (for z) and you say zee. Weirdo's. :tongue1::becky::becky:


And, thank you wagsy. (I do wish you wouldn't' use the term 'fanny pack' though, the images I conjure up aren't pretty!) 
I don't go down that street often, but if this happens again, and now that I know how to handle this particular dog, the man will get a right telling off, scooter or not scooter. People round here wouldn't hesitate to call the police and I'd hate for his dog to be put down because this bloke isn't responsible enough to put his dog aggressive pup on a leash to protect it from itself. 
Hmmmm, maybe I should get some pepper spray to protect myself from MacktheMadMan across the canal!!


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## wags (Jan 31, 2009)

:wacko:Ha Ha Fanny pack! They go in front of your waist!!!! Not on your butt!:wacko::biggrin1:


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

> Honestly I think there are too few resources for people with aggressive dogs that don't cost an arm and a leg. If you own an aggressive dog and have no clue what you're doing, trying to train them to be "friendly" can be like blindly stabbing jello in attempt to cut it into a perfect circle. I honestly wish I could give people with dogs like mine hope and encouragement. It's so easy to feel alone when you have a dog that seems like it wants to hurt every other dog it lays eye upon. And on top of that you're told to counter-condition them should you seek advice from a behaviorist?! Honestly I think there should be a support group for owners with dogs who have aggressive tendencies. Hell, I know I need one.


when you got your dogs, you were familiar with the breed. you knew what you were getting into. suffice it to say an apbt is not a pug that you can pick up by the scruff of its neck when it's being an ass....sorry bubba but you're a pita sometimes with other dogs....

and you knew that and took precautions and did your due diligence.

these breeds have been talked about all over the television, the news...everywhere....i wish there were support groups too....

but i also wish that people would stop blaming the dog....and stop thinking they are NOT to blame if their dog misbehaves.....that includes rotties, bulldogs...and even silly little pugs who think it's a gas to charge a german shepherd....


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## chowder (Sep 7, 2008)

SerenityFL said:


> By the way, I like the idea of the collapsible baton. Where do I get one of those?


I got mine from a local gun store but there are many places on the internet you can pick them up. I know that they can't be shipped to California but I don't think Maine has restrictions on them. I like it better then pepper spray because

1. We have a lot of rabid fox attacks here and I'm not sure pepper spray would bother a rabid fox
2. I don't want to have to stop and think about which way the wind is blowing if something is attacking me and the dogs. I could just see me accidently giving myself a face full of pepper spray! Or trying to aim it just at a stray dog while it has Rocky's neck in it's mouth and not hit Rocky, too.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

DoglovingSenior said:


> Sorry, the average score is 77. Good Night-I hate to get angry like this. I guess that I ex[ect too much of "dog people".


i'm sorry you went to sleep angry....you shouldn't.

you and i agree. i also expect too much from dog owners..and i get disappointed each and every time i hear...'oh my dog won't bite'.....

how do you know mine won't when your dog comes charging up to mine...and scares her or him half to death....

my dog is still learning social manners...yet there are so many people who won't take the five minutes it takes to butt sniff and back away....

i know when i am able to do that with my dogs, they get along with the other dogs....

if they don't...like the shiba inu who tried to kill bubba....i asked the owner if my pug could smell her butt and if her dog would smell my pug's butt...she said, no...this is a condo dog and she's an alpha...

i looked at her like she had two heads...and i said, i'm sorry. i thought YOU were alpha.

and we walked on. now when we see her coming, my dogs walk by her without a sound and her dog goes nuts.


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## chowder (Sep 7, 2008)

magicre said:


> if they don't...like the shiba inu who tried to kill bubba....i asked the owner if my pug could smell her butt and if her dog would smell my pug's butt...she said, no...this is a condo dog and she's an alpha...
> 
> i looked at her like she had two heads...and i said, i'm sorry. i thought YOU were alpha.


Nothing is scarier then a dog owner who has seen a few tv shows and is suddenly an expert on their dog's behavior! Once they start flinging buzz words like "alpha dog' at me, I start to back away. I'd keep your dogs noses far away from that Shiba Inu's butt (and it's owner's butt, too!)


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## DoglovingSenior (Jun 26, 2011)

xellil said:


> The data has been out there, but people choose to ignore the fact that pit bulls really are extremely good natured. We had a pit-chow mix that would get in the car with anyone who opened their door - and it wasn't to eat them!
> 
> Unfortunately, too many people use them to prove they are tough, li. We have one fellow at our dog park who is like that - he "protection trained" his dog but in reality all he did was train it to be aggressive and nasty
> 
> One of my dogs is "protection trained". My son did not want me to be without one once I was living alone. He has worked with some of the best trainers in the USA & Belgium & Germany-his dogs have passed the same tests that the Germans give to the K-9's . I wonder how these so-called trainers work-the first thing that the dog must learn is OBEDIENCE. It is amazing watching them at work-seeing them in full drive, & launched into the air and be given the "AUS" command-they drop like stones, WOW. Some people overtrain so that the dog is only friendly to them-these are NOT good trainers. A good trainer teaches the dog to know when a situation is potentially harmful and when it is just shouting or horseplay etc. No one would should know that the dogs in the room with them are protection trained if they are jumping up & down & shouting & slapping each other one the back during a Super Bowl  No one knows that mine is. He greets them playfully then goes and lies down. If however, he perceives danger he gets b/t me and the danger and will bark a warning. Nothing better than a good protection trained dog, nothing worse than one who is half-way or poorly trained.


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

CavePaws said:


> Looks like Labs and Goldens seem to be making it to the top of your list, Linsey...I would assume this is in part due to the fact that those are two of the most common pet dog breeds in America right now.


While that is a very fair overall statement, I will also point out that as far as what we see come into our daycare, labs are really not outnumbering any other breed, and because these incidents are in-house only, it doesn't apply. We see a *LOT* of goldens, pit mixes, and poodle mix type dogs, as well as mini schnauzers, shih tzus, and cockers...but labs aren't even close to the most popular breed in our daycare, surprisingly. 

I would say that probably 90% of our new customers as a whole pass the temperament screening required to stay with us, but probably 70% of labs do, and even then they make up about half of the total dogs we have to later turn away and refuse service to. 

Now, let me make this clear: I do NOT have a thing against labs. I know several *awesome* labs that I could bring home, put in my house, and be happy with (minus the hair and shedding!) and I'm not sure if there is just a local high-volume lab breeder somewhere churning out crappy dogs... but the experiences with them in daycare have been rather negative. I'm only stating the facts, and observations locally, so please, lab people, don't hate me!!!!
For the record, and especially so people realize I'm not trying to just pick on some breed I don't like, Boxers (one of my two favorite breeds ever) tend to NOT do well in a daycare environment, either. Not because of aggression, they just tick off a lot of dogs with their play style. There are few breeds that play well with Boxers, but they can be quite annoying, for lack of a better word- in that setting. Annie fails at daycare.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

chowder said:


> Nothing is scarier then a dog owner who has seen a few tv shows and is suddenly an expert on their dog's behavior! Once they start flinging buzz words like "alpha dog' at me, I start to back away. I'd keep your dogs noses far away from that Shiba Inu's butt (and it's owner's butt, too!)


agreed. however we do have to live here...so my dogs walk by hers perfectly well mannered and her dog loses its cool every time it sees another dog.

condo dog. is that a new breed?


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

in all truth, aren't labs and goldens up at the top of the list as being popular dogs to own?


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

magicre said:


> in all truth, aren't labs and goldens up at the top of the list as being popular dogs to own?


I believe they are. I'm almost certain they are. 
But, I don't believe that has much bearing on the statistics I see at my facility, because in house, we don't see an overwhelming number of labs. Goldens yes, labs, no.


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## DoglovingSenior (Jun 26, 2011)

CavePaws said:


> Looks like Labs and Goldens seem to be making it to the top of your list, Linsey...I would assume this is in part due to the fact that those are two of the most common pet dog breeds in America right now.


Maybe we are seeing more bad behavior from Labs & Goldens I because their owners do not see the need for ATTS'tests. Look at the Thousands of APBT's & Rotties that are tested and the low #'s of Goldens? Lately they have been causing a lot of problems. I love Goldens-I have a friend who was a Code of Ethics Breeder She was VEry particular about who she bred to & sold to. There were always at least 7 who met you at the door and were SO gentle & downright Gorgeous-blondes. She offered me one & I felt honored-she said to break up the black-brown thing that I had going on. So, at last I got a "light fawn" APBT. My vet says that most of her bites have come from labs through the years. She loves my guys.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

DoglovingSenior said:


> Maybe we are seeing more bad behavior from Labs & Goldens I because their owners do not see the need for ATTS'tests. Look at the Thousands of APBT's & Rotties that are tested and the low #'s of Goldens? Lately they have been causing a lot of problems. I love Goldens-I have a friend who was a Code of Ethics Breeder She was VEry particular about who she bred to & sold to. There were always at least 7 who met you at the door and were SO gentle & downright Gorgeous-blondes. She offered me one & I felt honored-she said to break up the black-brown thing that I had going on. So, at last I got a "light fawn" APBT. My vet says that most of her bites have come from labs through the years. She loves my guys.


i think we see bad behaviour because dog owners say....oh, we have a huge back yard...they just don't see the power of the walk, the run, the jog, the whatever you do with a leash.....

my dogs go on the treadmill when i am unable to walk them. it doesn't happen often, but if they don't go on their supervised, organised walk, they get antsy.

the treadmill gives them exercise,.....but the walk gives them discipline and not in a bad way. 

how would one expect a lab or golden to behave with all of that pent up energy? for that matter, every dog needs to get out there and do a job or just take a damned walk...pardon my french....but that's my cleaned up word.


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## werecatrising (Oct 15, 2010)

PuppyPaws said:


> While that is a very fair overall statement, I will also point out that as far as what we see come into our daycare, labs are really not outnumbering any other breed, and because these incidents are in-house only, it doesn't apply. We see a *LOT* of goldens, pit mixes, and poodle mix type dogs, as well as mini schnauzers, shih tzus, and cockers...but labs aren't even close to the most popular breed in our daycare, surprisingly.
> 
> I would say that probably 90% of our new customers as a whole pass the temperament screening required to stay with us, but probably 70% of labs do, and even then they make up about half of the total dogs we have to later turn away and refuse service to.
> 
> ...


I think I have been bit by more labs and goldens than any other breed. We don't see a higher percentage of them than other breeds, just a high average of completely untrained, ill mannered ones. I think it's because many people think they don't need training. They think they were born to be friendly and therefore need no socialization at all.


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