# Shouldn't skin health improve on a raw diet?



## Tarielle (Oct 22, 2010)

My dog has got terrible dandruff at the moment, all over her back and her butt to the tail.

She is constantly rolling around on her back. I can visibly see pieces of dried skin flaking off when I scratch her.

Abbey (my little jack russell) is 5 now and she never had dandruff, even when she was on the commercial food diet which made her so sick. I would say that she has had this skin shedding thing going on for the past few months only and I can't for the life of me figure out why.

She changed to raw about 2 months ago now and she gets an omega oil with vitamin E in her dinner every night. I would presume that this should keep her skin and coat in top condition but it's not helping.

I asked the holistic vet about this and she said that it was the old skin shedding off before the new healthier skin replaced it and this was a direct link to starting the raw food diet. I don't know whether I should believe this.

I was wondering if anyone else had the same problem because I can't seem to pinpoint the reason why she is so flakey at the moment.


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## hbwright (Jul 14, 2010)

Tarielle said:


> I asked the holistic vet about this and she said that it was the old skin shedding off before the new healthier skin replaced it and this was a direct link to starting the raw food diet. I don't know whether I should believe this.


I seem to remember somebody saying the same thing and that the skin did improve. They used raw fish though instead of the Omega 3's and upped the content of fat. I might give it more time and see if it improves. Does it seem to bother her as far as skin inflammation?


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

Give her Salmon Oil or Fish Body Oil instead of the O3 stuff you are giving. Raw fish would be best.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

when i first started feeding raw, my dogs had dandruff.

at the time, i attributed it to the lack of enough fat in their diet. they hadn't yet been introduced to liver and other organs, nor fish....because we were going very slowly.

as we added fish, fish oil and increased their fat, the dandruff went away.


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## sassymaxmom (Dec 7, 2008)

Agree, it could be any of those. Also if you aren't up to feeding a full on 80-10-10 there may be too much calcium from bone which may be binding not quite enough zinc from not enough red meat and organ. 

Max was great on his meager 1.5% of his body weight diet but once I made good and sure he got the zinc and bits of other minerals his coat improved. I prefer to feed more than half of the diet in red meat, especially beef and lamb and feed about 15% sardine/other high omega 3 fish.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

sassymaxmom said:


> Agree, it could be any of those. Also if you aren't up to feeding a full on 80-10-10 there may be too much calcium from bone which may be binding not quite enough zinc from not enough red meat and organ.
> 
> Max was great on his meager 1.5% of his body weight diet but once I made good and sure he got the zinc and bits of other minerals his coat improved. I prefer to feed more than half of the diet in red meat, especially beef and lamb and feed about 15% sardine/other high omega 3 fish.


am i wrong or is chicken high in zinc....i know it's not the most nutritious, but i thought it at least had zinc....


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## nikkiluvsu15 (Jun 9, 2010)

What kind of fish do you recommend? I have a terrible time finding fish and I'm still not exactly sure which are okay/not okay. She mostly gets canned Salmon, Sardines and Mackerel....


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## sassymaxmom (Dec 7, 2008)

That fish is just fine. My 38 pound Max would probably need about 3 ounces a day of any of those.

Max would have to eat 40 ounces of chicken with skin to get his optimal 16 mg of zinc. If he ate chicken hearts he would only have to eat about 9 ounces. Beef, 14 ounces. I supplement! Canned oysters are super powerful, he would need only .6 ounces of oysters per day. When I only spend $4-5 a week I really don't want to spend $2 on a can of oysters though.

Probably really just need time, the old skin is sloughing off fast and messy at that spot is all. Perhaps there is a flea allergy and the skin there was in poor shape? All the fat in raw really helps skin and coat health tremendously.


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## Katie Chumlee and Shorty (Oct 22, 2010)

*Grizzly Salmon Oil*

You could try Grizzly Salmon Oil. My Bully swears by it! He use to have dry flaky skin on his back with thinning fur.


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## luvMyBRT (Mar 8, 2010)

^^^^ Very cute. :biggrin:


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## Tarielle (Oct 22, 2010)

Wow, thanks everyone for your recommendations. I will swap her immediately to fish oil. I already have some of that at home that I take from time to time.

I gave her a bath last night with some oatmeal shampoo to try to further loosen some of the flaky skin but it did not stop her scratching.

I also gave her a hit of the spot on flea treatment. I haven't seen any fleas on her but she had fleas a few months ago and the spot on worked straight away. I didn't give her a follow up dose the following month so maybe they are still hanging around. We haven't had fleas at our place for the last 5 years now so have been very lucky.

I could see that something was really bothering her last night and when I had a look at her skin I found some small lumps and I presume that I presume have been caused by her scratching. They are hurting her because when I touched them she growled at me. I put some antiseptic cream on the skin and will inspect them every day to make sure they aren't getting any worse.

I am getting worried about her now, she has never had lumps on her before so if it doesn't clear up in a week I may need to take her to the vet for a cortisone shot which I absolutely hate to do.

When she was 1 year old and I found out she got Atopy the vet gave her some cortisone shots and some cream but I really hate the stuff and put her on something more natural which has worked every year since. This year however we are struggling to keep it under control so the allergies along with the change in diet is a big deal for Abbey and I'm trying to do the best I can to keep her healthy and happy.

Thanks very much for the advice on this, anything that will help is is greatly appreciated.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

What exactly are you feeding her on a daily/weekly basis?


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## Tarielle (Oct 22, 2010)

Hi, I might try mixing in some raw fish too. The new chicken mince I bought seems to have a higher fat content so I am hoping that helps. Yes, she does have some inflamation.


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## Tarielle (Oct 22, 2010)

danemama, I am feeding her raw chicken, pork, chicken necks and kangaroo.
She had some lambs liver for the first time in her dinner last night and gobbled it all up which I was really happy with. She has only been on raw for 2 months so we are introducing things slowly. I still have to find out from the holistic vet why she isn't allowed to have beef. I have completely forgotten what she said in regard to this and I really want to feed her beef. Maybe I should just feed the beef because clearly this isn't causing the problems because she hasn't had any at all.

This week I plan to introduce some fish (probably something from a tin). I just have to see what the supermarket carries. Next week I hope to introduce a different organ meat, maybe some heart.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

I would add the beef in...I see no reason why she can't have it. Rarely do dogs actually have issues with meat protein related food allergies.

Heart isn't considered an organ nutritionally. Its sort of in between a muscle meat and an organ meat because it is very, very rich but doesn't have the same nutrition as organ meats do. If you want to add in another organ, I would go with kidney, spleen or pancreas. Heart is a great thing to feed on a regular basis, and for us beef heart is our "heart" of choice because its very inexpensive source of beef. 

It sounds to me like you may just need to give the raw diet a bit longer of a chance to work its "miracle" with your dog. There are some people who have here who have started their dogs on raw that were in horrible condition and it took about 6 whole months for them to get back to close to normal and healthy. Just be patient and keep up the good work!

Definitely add in some fish, even if its canned!


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## Tarielle (Oct 22, 2010)

Thanks danemama, I think I will just add the beef as you suggest and not worry about it too much. I sent a quick email to the holistic vet to ask again why Abbey wasn't supposed to eat beef so will wait to see what she says in return.

Wow, 6 months? That's a reality check. I'll need to gain loads of patience. With having Abbey so sick for so long I just want her to be healthy, like right now, which is why we switched to raw in the first place. I'm sure it will pay off down the track, just need to stop the itching for now which is my greatest concern.

Thanks for the organ info. I've made a list so the next time I hit the butcher I'll know exactly what to get.

Do you ever feed lung or brain? Do they have any nutritional value?


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## Tarielle (Oct 22, 2010)

I was just trawling through the archives here and discovered that lots of you doggie lovers feed raw egg too and that it makes a difference with the dogs coat.

I wonder if that will help Abbey's skin problems if I start adding in 1 or 2 eggs a week.

Will have to give that a go.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

if you're feeding 'roo, then you're already feeding red meat......just not from a cow.

i wonder why your vet thinks that's okay, but beef from a cow is not.....

my 'brother' is here from brisbane....this is very cool that you got to this forum....


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Lung and brain do have nutritional value but not things that are absolutely essential. Of course the closer you get to mimicking the whole body of prey animals the better. I've fed both without issues. Although brain is very high in fat.

Eggs are a great thing to give, shell and all. We hand each one of our dogs a whole egg which they proceed to play with it until it breaks. They lick up the innards and usually leave most of the shell behind. I'd say once or twice a week is a good amount to have.
Here's a case story that raw works wonders but it can take a long time to heal the damage...read through these threads!

http://dogfoodchat.com/forum/raw-feeding/3503-update.html

http://dogfoodchat.com/forum/raw-feeding/2590-do-you-want-see-hairy-butt.html

http://dogfoodchat.com/forum/raw-feeding/1940-update-casey.html


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## sassymaxmom (Dec 7, 2008)

Brain is where the animal stores omega 3 and vitamin E. I really like feeding it if possible but I will only do so if the price is right. Lung is low calorie and high in iron and vitamin C if fresh. Haven't been able to feed it yet but understand that it is spongy and hard to eat. Just try those goodies if you come across them and they are within your price range. No need to go broke hunting them down!


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## Tarielle (Oct 22, 2010)

Magicre, yes that's right, I hadn't thought of roo in that way.
I did not get a solid answer from my holistic vet other than she said to avoid beef and lamb at the moment with Abbey having so many problems with allergies.
I wonder if there is some link between the beef and the allergies?

I am glad that I got to this forum too. I posted a question in Yahoo Answers and someone directed me here on a link. So here I am.

Your brother is probably missing the warm weather from Brisy although they've had more water in the last few weeks than they know what to do with. It's a lovely state in Australia and if it wasn't for the humidity I would probably be living there too.


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## Tarielle (Oct 22, 2010)

Abbey had her first raw egg last night. Lol, she had no idea what to do with it, just sat there looking at it for ages. The she pushed it around with her nose for a while. In the end I cracked the egg and mixed it into her dinner with half of the shell which I broke up into small pieces.

She knew something wasn't quite right with the new smell in her food so I had to put a few ham pieces on top to encourage her. She also had more liver mixed in and I also added the contents from a fish oil capsule.

She wolfed down the whole lot I'm pleased to say. Yay, another small victory.


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## Tarielle (Oct 22, 2010)

Danemama, thank you so much for the threads on Casey.

Those pics are just remarkable of what feeding raw can do. I am amazed.
I am very encouraged by Casey's story.

Abbey has never been that bad, thank goodness, but it will be great to one day get rid of the allergies altogether.
Her coat in some areas is starting to look more shiny and healthy and hopefully that will continue to her back and butt which is still very scruffy and unhealthy looking.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

Tarielle said:


> Abbey had her first raw egg last night. Lol, she had no idea what to do with it, just sat there looking at it for ages. The she pushed it around with her nose for a while. In the end I cracked the egg and mixed it into her dinner with half of the shell which I broke up into small pieces.
> 
> She knew something wasn't quite right with the new smell in her food so I had to put a few ham pieces on top to encourage her. She also had more liver mixed in and I also added the contents from a fish oil capsule.
> 
> She wolfed down the whole lot I'm pleased to say. Yay, another small victory.


ham is smoked, right....? did she have any reaction to that?

i think that's what i would stay away from....anything that is processed or cured or smoked......


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## SerenityFL (Sep 28, 2010)

danemama08 said:


> Here's a case story that raw works wonders but it can take a long time to heal the damage...read through these threads!
> 
> http://dogfoodchat.com/forum/raw-feeding/3503-update.html
> 
> ...


Danemama, I can't thank you enough for sharing those links. That is an incredible story and it's just another weapon in my arsenal for those who wish to tell me how bad raw food is for my dogs. Casey's before and after pics, especially in the latest thread is unbelievable. The before pic of her on the couch, all curled up and hairless is heartbreaking. But now she looks fantastic. No meds, no vet visits, no flea killing poisons....just raw.

Thank you.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

I'm glad those links on casey's story helped a few of you out. Sometimes it's just a good thing to do to read through the successes page on here...makes me feel good about all the time I spend here helping people out! Switching one person at a time is consuming, but well worth it! 

As far as feeding lamb and beef associated with allergies, I honestly don't think that you'll have an issue at all. Maybe your vet was concerned because these meats are more rich than others and can give a dog digestive upset (which your vet may be confusing upset with allergy, when they really are completely different). Give it time and patience, don't rush things, add these rich meats slowly alongside a high bone content meal and your dog should be fine (the more bone you feed the more solid stools will be. Bone acts like fiber does with us...give bowel movements their regularity. If you don't feed bone all you'll see is diarrhea, and not to mention mineral deficiencies).


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## Tarielle (Oct 22, 2010)

The ham didn't seem to bother her at all. She wasn't sick and her poops was okay too.
The amount I put in her dinner wasn't even palm size, just a few pieces to entice her that there was good stuff in her bowl.

I did have a problem last night with her dinner. The cheeky little thing picked all the liver out of her bowl and left the pieces on the floor, lol.
I may need to blend it first.


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## Tarielle (Oct 22, 2010)

danemama, I really don't know what the vets issue was with the beef or lamb, she just didn't explain it properly and she is on holiday at the moment so I didn't get an in depth reply on email.

I will be feeding Abbey some beef when I do a big shop this weekend. I will buy some beef bones with meat on them and kill 2 birds with one stone. I will soon see whether she reacts badly to the meal or not.

My fridge/freezer is getting way too full so will be on the hunt to buy a separate freezer soon.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Tarielle said:


> danemama, I really don't know what the vets issue was with the beef or lamb, she just didn't explain it properly and she is on holiday at the moment so I didn't get an in depth reply on email.


I will wait patiently for what she has to say, as I'm very interested in her thoughts on it. Keep me posted :wink:



> I will be feeding Abbey some beef when I do a big shop this weekend. I will buy some beef bones with meat on them and kill 2 birds with one stone. I will soon see whether she reacts badly to the meal or not.


Be *extremely* careful what beef bones you buy. The only ones that I feel are appropriate for any large or giant breed dog are beef ribs. Marrow or knuckle beef bones are a huge no no for large/giant breed dogs because of the risk of breaking teeth. For this reason, I tell most people to just stay away from beef bones UNLESS they are beef ribs. I'm not quite sure what kind of dog you have but keep this in mind when shopping for beef bones.

Also, just remember that beef is a lot richer than other meats and can cause normal digestive upset. So don't worry too much if you see loose stool or anything.



> My fridge/freezer is getting way too full so will be on the hunt to buy a separate freezer soon.


This comes with the territory of raw feeding! We are up to three full freezers at the moment!!!


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## Tarielle (Oct 22, 2010)

Gotcha, I'll get some smaller size rib bones. Abbey is a jack russell so one or two of those will keep her pretty satisfied. I know I am not supposed to feed any 'weight bearing' bones. I hope to stay with small beef bones and chicken bones when I want to mix it up. I mostly see the rib racks at the butcher that I go to and they are happy to saw them up into whatever size I want. I used to go there all the time when we still had our german shepherds.

I'll feed the beef bones on Saturday night so I'm home the next day to keep an eye out for when she poops.

I wonder if the vet wants me to steer clear of beef because of the reason you mentioned, that it can be too rich for her. We really want to stay away from Abbey having any more tummy upsets or yucky poos. 

If the bones cause her grief then I might try adding a small amount of beef mince into her dinner and see how she copes with that. She might have to get used to it in little doses first.


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## GT-Bris (Nov 2, 2010)

Tarielle said:


> My dog has got terrible dandruff at the moment, all over her back and her butt to the tail.
> 
> She is constantly rolling around on her back. I can visibly see pieces of dried skin flaking off when I scratch her.
> 
> ...


Hi Tarielle,

I normally advise people to switch to Dr Bruce Syme's natural raw foods - see: http://www.vetsallnatural.com.au/PCsheet.pdf and initially treat the dogs using a similar treatment protocol as I would treating humans.

I note that you are located in Melbourne, so here's the link to retailers who sell Dr Syme's pet foods: http://www.vetsallnatural.com.au/index.php?option=com_webmapplus

Good luck!


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## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

I've just remembered that my friends pug will get white skin flakes and even crusts when he has topical flea treatment put between his shoulders. It lasts a couple of weeks, then goes away, only to return when she reapplies it. Just a thought.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

MollyWoppy said:


> I've just remembered that my friends pug will get white skin flakes and even crusts when he has topical flea treatment put between his shoulders. It lasts a couple of weeks, then goes away, only to return when she reapplies it. Just a thought.


during transition, both dogs got flakey for a month or so...i thought it was change of season or that i wasn't doing something right...they don't seem to need flea treatment, so i know it wasn't that.

it might have been because in the beginning, i fed less fat than i do now....plus, i think their skin was changing....so their fur was shedding epithelials.....

malia, who is almost eleven is not as white around her muzzle...and her greying has slowed down.

when summer turned to fall, they both went through the flaky skin.....malia is a corgi mix and bubba is a pug....but it only lasted about a week...


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## Tarielle (Oct 22, 2010)

GT-Bris....hi, nice to see a fellow aussie here.
Thanks for the link to the sites. My local pet store sells the Dr Bruce brand of raw food and I have been buying this for Abbey, she seems to really like it.

I mix some of this with other raw meat and so far so good. I noticed first off that there were no preservatives or any other nasties added so that's why I went for it straight away.

Much appreciated.


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## Chocx2 (Nov 16, 2009)

I think its been close to a year for my dogs they all are doing much better on raw I started feeding raw for allergy issues with one of my dogs. Its been a long road, but she has all her hair now and doing great
She had some allergies, not to food but mites, which are in everything I found out. Grain mites, dust mites, well there are 6 different types. I think the raw diet helped her over reactive system get healthy and she is now fighting it well herself.
I do keep the humidity down in my home 50 % or under which keeps my home a bad atmispher for mites living in Florida its not easy.
My other dogs have gone from good to great on there new diets too. It takes a while though
Good luck


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## Tarielle (Oct 22, 2010)

That is encouraging Chocx2 to hear that your dogs are doing well on raw, especially with the allergy problem.

I was having another look at Abbey's skin last night and discovered another 3 areas where she has hair loss and scabs from biting so much.
I had to cut back some hair on her tail because it had matted together and was looking pretty terrible. I put some ointment on and will keep checking it to see how the healing is going. The poor little thing, I feel so bad for her.

I am glad that I tried the antihistamine tablets because she hasn't been scratching so much over the last 3 days so I know they are working.
I will use them as needed.

On the lighter side, she is amusing me no end with the new hair dos she is giving herself. Her hair sticks up everywhere where it has dried with her saliva on it and she has these little mohawks sticking up all over her fur.


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