# Anyone tried Victor Grain Free dog food?



## rambone (Nov 16, 2010)

I saw the Professional formula at my local feed store. Was wondering if anyone has tried it. It was 39.99 for 30lbs so it seems reasonable.
INGREDIENTS
Chicken Meal, Chicken Fat (Preserved with Mixed Tocopherols), Peas, Sweet Potato Meal, Beef Meal, Lamb Meal, Menhaden Fish Meal, Dehydrated Alfalfa Meal, Pork Meal, Flax Seed (Source of Omega 3 Fatty Acid), Dried Egg, Potassium Chloride, Dried Kelp, Natural Chicken Flavor, Alfalfa Nutrient Concentrate, Montmorillonite, Blueberries, Monosodium Phosphate, Yeast Extract, Dried Chicory Root, Yeast Culture, Vegetable & Fruit Pomace (Carrot, Peas, Tomato, Celery, Beet, Parsley, Lettuce, Watercress, Spinach, Cranberries, Blueberries), Vitamins ( Vitamin E Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Niacin Supplement (Source of Vitamin B3), Vitamin A Supplement, d-Calcium Pantothenate (Source of Vitamin B5), Thiamine Mononitrate (Source of Vitamin B1), Biotin (Source of Vitamin B7), Riboflavin Supplement (Source of Vitamin B2), Vitamin D3 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Source of Vitamin B6), Ascorbic Acid, Folic Acid (Source of Vitamin B9), Minerals (Zinc Sulfate, Calcium Carbonate, Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Amino Acid Chelate, Iron Amino Acid Chelate, Copper Sulfate, Copper Amino Acid Chelate, Manganese Sulfate, Manganese Amino Acid Chelate, Magnesium Amino Acid Chelate, Cobalt Carbonate), Salt, L-Lysine, Selenium Yeast, Lecithin, Choline Chloride, Hydrolyzed Yeast, Dried Enterococcus Faecium Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Aspergillus Niger Fermentation Product, Dried Bacillus Subtilis Fermentation Product, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Taurine, Mixed Tocopherols and Citric Acid (Preservatives), Rosemary Extract. 




GUARANTEED ANALYSIS



Crude Protein

Min 42.0 %

Selenium

Min 0.4 mg/kg



Crude Fat

Min 22.0 %

Vitamin E

Min 250 IU/kg



Crude Fiber

Max 2.7 %

*Linoleic Acid (OMEGA 6)

Min 2.4 %



Moisture

Max 9.0%

*Linolenic Acid (OMEGA 3)

Min 0.4 %



Zinc

Min 150 mg/kg


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## PDXdogmom (Jun 30, 2010)

I just looked at their website since I'm not familiar with the brand. I think the ingredients seem fairly fine, but I'm surprised to see the chicken fat as the 2nd ingredient as opposed to a carb. That's somewhat unusual.

I think the formula would work best for a highly active dog in good health and with no sensitivities. With having five different meat proteins in the formula it could be difficult to sort out the culprit if a dog didn't handle the food well. And yes, that is a very reasonable price to pay.


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## cavalcadegsmd (Feb 1, 2010)

I use it and it is WONDERFUL!!!!!!! It has been a god send for one of my dogs that never did well on everything else. Contrary, to PDXdogmom, it has been wonderful for my dog that had lots of sensitivities. It is very digestible and calorie dense which makes my fairly active fit on a smaller amount which keeps his system happy. It is definitely worth a try for any dog. I think the multiple protein sources are one of the things that makes it work so well for my dog.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

this food has been brought up a lot in the past few days....kind of bizarre since no one has ever heard of it before....


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## cavalcadegsmd (Feb 1, 2010)

I think that is because it is a brand that is growing because it is affordable and of good quality. It is also relatively new to most parts off the country.


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## truthdog (Sep 10, 2011)

meggels said:


> this food has been brought up a lot in the past few days....kind of bizarre since no one has ever heard of it before....


So that is your standard, whether you have heard of it? Or rather whether it is listed in the Whole Dog Journal?

Victor has been around for about 4 years.

It is a good, honestly priced food. I would rather use a food with fewer animal proteins but it is a quality prodcut nontheless.

The foods with Sorghum are better than the GF's.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

truthdog said:


> So that is your standard, whether you have heard of it? Or rather whether it is listed in the Whole Dog Journal?
> 
> Victor has been around for about 4 years.
> 
> ...



Standard for what???? I wasn't talking about standards at all. I merely made a comment, rather, an observation that it was funny that it's never been mentioned here before and all of a sudden within a few days, it's being brought up several times. 

So lay off, and go look for a fight elsewhere.


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## cavalcadegsmd (Feb 1, 2010)

@ Truthdog- please explain why you feel their formulas are better? Why do you think less sources of animal protein are better? Unless you are dealing with protein allergy situation, I think that multiple protein sources are a good due to increased diversity of amino acids.


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## cavalcadegsmd (Feb 1, 2010)

After considering after thinking about this, I think that it is the high calories per cup of this food that is making it work so well.


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## nupe (Apr 26, 2011)

I went to website and put in my zip code and a 50 mile radius ...NO STORE...carries it,....I am a RAW feeder but was just curious about the access of it..and I am in NYC!!...LOL...WONDER IF TRUTHDOG...has stock in Viktor..dog food??..HMMM


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## PDXdogmom (Jun 30, 2010)

I also went to the website and plugged in my zip code. Nothing came up within a 50 mile radius and I'm in a major dog focused city - Portland. It is extremely rare for me not to find a brand of food I see mentioned on the internet in one of the stores around here.


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## truthdog (Sep 10, 2011)

cavalcadegsmd said:


> @ Truthdog- please explain why you feel their formulas are better? Why do you think less sources of animal protein are better? Unless you are dealing with protein allergy situation, I think that multiple protein sources are a good due to increased diversity of amino acids.


The answer is simple, the more proteins you expose an animal too the greater the risk of developing an allergy you cannot deal with. If a dog eats every commercially available source of 
protein then there is no such thing as a"novel" protein. There are 20 amino acids and 10 are 
made by the dog. Only 10 amino acids are considered essential for a canine. The bases are 
covered with just a high quality chicken-based dog food. I do like menhaden or herring with the chicken, though.

I start choking when people on the internet talk about rotation feeding for protein variety.

If you are unlucky and your dog develops allergies you will have a harder time finding a protein it can tolerate if it has eaten them all. There is no reason to switch a dogs protein unless there
is a problem.


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## cprcheetah (Jul 14, 2010)

truthdog said:


> The answer is simple, the more proteins you expose an animal too the greater the risk of developing an allergy
> you cannot deal with. If a dog eats every commercially available source of protein then there is no such thing as a"novel" protein. There are 20 amino acids and 10 are made by the dog. The bases are covered with just a high
> quality chicken-based dog food. I do like menhaden or herring with the chicken, though.
> 
> ...


Yes but you can also have dogs who develop allergies because they ARE NOT exposed to many things. Zoey was exposed to Beef & Chicken for many many years, and guess what she's allergic to? Beef & Chicken (except in Raw form). When you do 'rotational' feeding most of the time you are switching proteins sooner than most dogs have time to become allergic (3-4 months), as when I was rotation feeding Shellie before I switched to raw, she was changed every 6-8 weeks.


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## truthdog (Sep 10, 2011)

If you had introduced a variety of proteins earlier you would be having a much harder time now. 
When your dog develops an allergy keep in mind it is not the proteins fault, it is your dog's
immune system that is messed up.

It is better to save the novel proteins until you need them, there is no upside as far as amino acids
go and all downside.


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## cprcheetah (Jul 14, 2010)

Actually I cured her allergy issues by switching her to prey model raw, she now eats both Chicken & Beef regularly and no longer has any issues, so I don't worry about novel proteins anymore....which is a relief.


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## cavalcadegsmd (Feb 1, 2010)

Very interesting thoughts. Thanks for sharing. 

@cprcheetah- I would like to know more about your comments to beef and chicken. Was this diagnosed by a lab test? Was it a primary or secondary allergy? 

@truthdog- I would still like to know more about why you prefer the Victor formulas that have sorghum. Sorghum was a new thing to me in dog food. I spoke with the owner of the company and he told me that he uses primarily because it is easier to get 100% cooked than other forms of grain, and listed a few other reasons that I can't remember. I have not been able to find out much about it from other sources. I would agree about saving novel protein sources until you need them. IMO, I don't see beef, chicken, pork, or eggs as novel protein sources. I numerous sources talk about eggs being the "perfect" food for dogs because off the complete amino profile, and ideal ratio off protein and fat.


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## cprcheetah (Jul 14, 2010)

cavalcadegsmd said:


> Very interesting thoughts. Thanks for sharing.
> 
> @cprcheetah- I would like to know more about your comments to beef and chicken. Was this diagnosed by a lab test? Was it a primary or secondary allergy?


The lab tests for food allergies ARE NOT reliable (I was told that by a doggie dermatologist), so it was diagnosed by the fact that ANY time she gets cooked chicken or beef she reacts (sometimes hives, sometimes weepy eyes, sometimes chewing on self intensely, sometimes a rash it varies), whether it's kibble, treats from Rob and I anything. Once I eliminated those items from her diet, guess what no more licky, itchy, chewy Zoey. So that's how it was diagnosed. The most common way to diagnose food allergy/sensitivities is by Food Trials.


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## cavalcadegsmd (Feb 1, 2010)

@cprcheetah- Allergies and sensitivities are two separate things biologically. It is biologically impossible for a dog to be truly allergic to a protein cooked and not when raw. An allergy is a reaction to a protein that causes the immune system to over react. There are primary and secondary allergies. If a body reacts to substance A all off the time it is a primary allergy. If a body reacts to substance A only in the presence of substance B, than it is a secondary allergy. This is a bit of an over simplified analogy but is true. 

Sensitivities can involve different organs, and display similar symptoms. The reactions generally diagnosed as colitis, pancreatitis etc.. 

I am glad your DVM allergist didn't milk you for excessive testing, and you are correct that removing proteins is the most common way to figure things out. This is termed a differential diagnosis. I have had dogs on raw, done the elimination and had allergy testing solve the mystery. 

I am curious about your switching proteins so frequently. The vet that has given my the best help in situations of allergy and sensitivity situations gave me much longer timelines for the body to adjust than you are reporting. 

Obviously what you are doing is working for Zoey, and that is why I am asking for more input. Thanks.


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

cavalcadegsmd said:


> @cprcheetah- Allergies and sensitivities are two separate things biologically. It is biologically impossible for a dog to be truly allergic to a protein cooked and not when raw. An allergy is a reaction to a protein that causes the immune system to over react. There are primary and secondary allergies. If a body reacts to substance A all off the time it is a primary allergy. If a body reacts to substance A only in the presence of substance B, than it is a secondary allergy. This is a bit of an over simplified analogy but is true.
> 
> Sensitivities can involve different organs, and display similar symptoms. The reactions generally diagnosed as colitis, pancreatitis etc..
> 
> ...


So based on that would *you* say if a dog has Hives, hair loss, hot to the touch/itchy/red skin, and ear infections after eating a protein it was an allergy or a sensitivity??


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## cprcheetah (Jul 14, 2010)

cavalcadegsmd said:


> @cprcheetah- Allergies and sensitivities are two separate things biologically. It is biologically impossible for a dog to be truly allergic to a protein cooked and not when raw. An allergy is a reaction to a protein that causes the immune system to over react. There are primary and secondary allergies. If a body reacts to substance A all off the time it is a primary allergy. If a body reacts to substance A only in the presence of substance B, than it is a secondary allergy. This is a bit of an over simplified analogy but is true.
> 
> Sensitivities can involve different organs, and display similar symptoms. The reactions generally diagnosed as colitis, pancreatitis etc..
> 
> ...


In case you didn't know my dad is a vet (for 40+ years) and I have worked for him for 20+ years, currently work for a different vet as my father semi-retired, and I have done loads and loads of research on allergies, dog food etc....as it took me 4 & 1/2 years of dealing with Zoey's allergies to find a solution, so I am quite familiar with dog food allergies. Cooking a protein changes the protein which is why a lot of dogs who are allergic to an ingredient in kibble do not react to it when fed in raw form, so a dog can still be allergic to COOKED Chicken but not RAW Chicken, however there are still dogs who are allergic to both. I think variety is the spice of life so to speak and I want to give my dogs a wide variety of proteins. I wouldn't want to eat the SAME thing every day, day in and day out. I want them to get the best most optimal nutrition available, which is why I vary between red & white meats, feed whole prey etc. Here are some 'before & after' pictures of Zoey on raw My Little Carnivores: Before & After Pictures You can notice in her 1st picture she was quite red/stained in her face & feet, and now after raw it is no longer there. She is off of 6 of her 7 long-term medications (she has quite a slew of health issues besides food & environmental allergies), so that is huge for me.

I have always been taught/read/researched that an allergy is when you see skin symptoms and an intolerance/sensitivity is when you see colitis, diarrhea, upset stomach.

ETA: Here's a link that talks about how a protein changes when cooked: http://www.thewholedog.org/artcarnivores.html


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## cavalcadegsmd (Feb 1, 2010)

@Scarlet- I don't know enough about the entire situation to make an educated guess. The fact that the "treats and kibble" are involved certainly opens the door to a secondary allergy depending on what was involved in their make up. Weepy eyes point toward atopy (inhaled allergies.) Such things are very hard problems that can be both medically compound or complex- or worse both at the same time.


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

cavalcadegsmd said:


> @Scarlet- I don't know enough about the entire situation to make an educated guess. The fact that the "treats and kibble" are involved certainly opens the door to a secondary allergy depending on what was involved in their make up. Weepy eyes point toward atopy (inhaled allergies.) Such things are very hard problems that can be both medically compound or complex- or worse both at the same time.


Nope, we are talking about just a cooked single protein, it was winter, and he was an indoor nearly all day other then VERY short walks outside dog:wink:


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## cavalcadegsmd (Feb 1, 2010)

I would also like to point out that I very whole heatedly believe in the power of raw protein. It is a empirically proven fact heat damages protein and other nutrients. All I stated was that it is impossible physiologically speaking for an allergic reaction to a protein to happen when it is cooked and not when it is raw.


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## cprcheetah (Jul 14, 2010)

cavalcadegsmd said:


> I would also like to point out that I very whole heatedly believe in the power of raw protein. It is a empirically proven fact heat damages protein and other nutrients. All I stated was that it is impossible physiologically speaking for an allergic reaction to a protein to happen when it is cooked and not when it is raw.


Well whether or not it's 'physiologically impossible' for it to happen, I know that Zoey is allergic to cooked chicken, but eats raw chicken all the time with out a problem. She got a hold of a chicken cat treat a few weeks ago and broke out in hives.....to me if that's not an allergy, I don't know what is. I know it was the chicken because that is the only ingredient in the treat.


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## cavalcadegsmd (Feb 1, 2010)

I don't want this to be an antagonized debate. 

May I ask what else was in the cat treat that caused the hives other than chicken?

I am also a bit confused. I am assuming Zoey is a she, LOL. I don't know what dog or situation with the "he" that was in winter and only had short walks outside that ScarlettO is referring to. However it is common knowledge indoor air quality usually worse than outdoor quality. It is also well known mold is a common toxin and allergen.


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

cavalcadegsmd said:


> I don't want this to be an antagonized debate.
> 
> May I ask what else was in the cat treat that caused the hives other than chicken?
> 
> I am also a bit confused. I am assuming Zoey is a she, LOL. I don't know what dog or situation with the "he" that was in winter and only had short walks outside that ScarlettO is referring to. However it is common knowledge indoor air quality usually worse than outdoor quality. It is also well known mold is a common toxin and allergen.


That is my own situation, Im not talking about Heather's at all.

And nope, clean indoor air(my in-law with asthma was PERFECTLY fine inside,) no mold(very allergic person here, we keep a mold free house because of it!:wink

IT WAS THE PROTEIN.


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## cprcheetah (Jul 14, 2010)

cprcheetah said:


> * I know it was the chicken because that is the only ingredient in the treat.*


Read above


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## truthdog (Sep 10, 2011)

cavalcadegsmd said:


> Very interesting thoughts. Thanks for sharing.
> 
> @cprcheetah- I would like to know more about your comments to beef and chicken. Was this diagnosed by a lab test? Was it a primary or secondary allergy?
> 
> @truthdog- I would still like to know more about why you prefer the Victor formulas that have sorghum. Sorghum was a new thing to me in dog food. I spoke with the owner of the company and he told me that he uses primarily because it is easier to get 100% cooked than other forms of grain, and listed a few other reasons that I can't remember. I have not been able to find out much about it from other sources. I would agree about saving novel protein sources until you need them. IMO, I don't see beef, chicken, pork, or eggs as novel protein sources. I numerous sources talk about eggs being the "perfect" food for dogs because off the complete amino profile, and ideal ratio off protein and fat.


It doesn't surprise me a food company in Texas uses Sorghum. Sorghum is a gluten free, dry area grain that is becoming more popular here as a health food. It grows without the need of pesticide and is essentially an "organic" grain. It grows in the deserts of Africa. Nutritionally it is much like rice and corn.

You would be suprised how many pet foods use it. It may be listed under the name 'Milo". When someone wants to make it sound fancy they use the word "Milo".

"Novel" is a relative term. If you use chicken soley, then isn't beef and pork "novel"? Novel doesn't have to mean kangaroo.

Sorghum is just fine is a dog food.


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## DaViking (Sep 27, 2011)

truthdog said:


> It doesn't surprise me a food company in Texas uses Sorghum. Sorghum is a gluten free, dry area grain that is becoming more popular here as a health food. It grows without the need of pesticide and is essentially an "organic" grain. It grows in the deserts of Africa. Nutritionally it is much like rice and corn.
> 
> You would be suprised how many pet foods use it. It may be listed under the name 'Milo". When someone wants to make it sound fancy they use the word "Milo".
> 
> ...


Sorghum have been around in dog food for a while and is a wholesome high quality ingredient. I remember seeing sorghum in European (marketed) brands long ago. Don't remember which brands at the moment tho, not that it matters.


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## Grunt (Jan 17, 2012)

I use 300 pounds a month of the victor lamb and rice for my Danes. They love the food and have never been in better health. I have been very pleased with this food and the cost compared to other foods such as blue buffalo makes it a no brainier. The only problem is it only at the feed stores. The feed store close to my home did not carry it but upon my request they brought it in and it has been a good seller for them.


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## cavalcadegsmd (Feb 1, 2010)

I have had all 7 of my dogs on Victor food for over six months. I have one that has had constant trouble with his tummy. I started him out on the grain free and was encouraged. I messed up my order and ran out of the grain free, and had to feed him the 30/20 Professional formula, and he's done absolutely wonderful on it. I think this proves that gluten and excessive amounts of starch are the main problem with most grain inclusive dog foods.


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