# Vet visit - can you say OVERFEEDING?



## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Snorkels lost 2 pounds the first 6 days on raw food, and gained 2.7 pounds in the last four days.

Rebel gained 5 pounds in 7 days.

YEEK!

On the good side, the vet agrees with me that his ear problem is well on the way to being cleared up - she said the cobblestone look in his inner ears has gone down, and it's not bright red. That's after just 7 days on raw food.

His teeth are looking pretty bad (at least to me), but she said to wait 4-6 months and then re-evaluate whether to clean them or see if the bones help.

The vet says they both look great! But no more yo yo dieting 

Of course, 7-10 days is a little soon, but everyone in the vet's office seems very interested and curious about this raw diet, to see how it goes with us. Maybe we can convert one or two.


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## Ania's Mommy (Feb 8, 2009)

Yeah! Your vet sounds pretty awesome. 

I'd cut back just a bit on the amounts. During the initial transition is not the time to try to put on weight, and could mess up their poos.

But it sounds like you're doing a good job overall. :thumb:


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## mischiefgrrl (Oct 28, 2010)

That's GREAT news in just 7 days! That sounds like a lot of weight gain in such little time... Maybe the scales were a little off?


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## G_slave01 (Dec 24, 2010)

What do they look like? Muscle weighs more than fat but takes up less room (or at least it does in humans so i doubt its different for dogs). btw i've been following Snorkels' little journey with interst & a lot of smiles. So happy 4 her that she's finally catching a break! A new home, great food & obviously a lot of love & care.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Yes, I didn't buy a scale for a week and then Snorkels had lost 2 pounds, so I guess I overdid. I still think she needs more than the recommended 3 oz, but maybe not 10 oz a day for a 10 pound dog 

I knew I was overfeeding Rebel. I guess I just didn't believe what everyone told me was the right amount - he'll get his 3 pounds and no more from now on.

And yes, I am loving my vet more and more all the time, plus all the people that work in her office. I visit them so much we are almost like family - ALMOST - I can't stand the other vet in the office, if she is available and my vet is not, i will go to the emergency hospital insted of seeing her. I guess nothing is perfect.


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## CavePaws (Jan 25, 2011)

My little dog put on weight too! He went from 15 lbs to 17 lbs in a matter of two weeks. I've been feeding him way too much, I know. I think sometimes he may gets almost a lb of food a day because I don't weight it/feel bad about giving him such little amounts. :[

glad miss Snorkels is doing wonderfully!


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## RaisingWolves (Mar 19, 2011)

I'm happy to read your two are improving! Your vet sounds wonderful! You are very lucky to have a vet with an open mind when it comes to raw feeding.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

G_slave01 said:


> What do they look like? Muscle weighs more than fat but takes up less room (or at least it does in humans so i doubt its different for dogs). btw i've been following Snorkels' little journey with interst & a lot of smiles. So happy 4 her that she's finally catching a break! A new home, great food & obviously a lot of love & care.


Snorkels looks great - little fat on her ribs just like she's supposed to, but not too much. She's actually a good size right now, and seems in good shape.

Rebel needs some work - he weighed 110 pounds when I got him and I have never gotten him to lose a pound - on dry food he was getting 2 cups a day, which is a tiny amount for a dog that size. He weighed 112 when we started the diet, and 117 yesterday. He should weigh between 95-100 pounds. I can't figure out why I can't get him to lose any weight - he had a really bad thyroid problem when I got him but he's been on medication for almost two years. We walk, and go to the dog park where he gets lots of running in - I am too fat to jog but maybe I should hire someone to run with him for half an hour a day. I need a 12 year old.

So he looks fat - not obese but not super muscly, like a Dobie should look, and there is defintely too much flab on his ribcage. I hope this diet helps him. 

With Snorkels my concern is her heart condition - I know I can't reverse anything, but I don't want her to deteriorate and die soon, she deserves a few good years. Maybe feeding her raw will at least not make things worse where her heart is concerned.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

RaisingWolves said:


> I'm happy to read your two are improving! Your vet sounds wonderful! You are very lucky to have a vet with an open mind when it comes to raw feeding.


yes from reading this board I appreciate her alot more, that's for sure. I know it's hard to leave a vet you've been with for alot of years, even if they don't approve of something you are doing with your dog. i stuck with a vet I didn't like for way too long, and when my last dog died I said enough, I'm finding one that talks to me, not at me.


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## Northwoods10 (Nov 22, 2010)

Congrats on the improvements!!

And yay for having a supportive vet!


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

CavePaws said:


> My little dog put on weight too! He went from 15 lbs to 17 lbs in a matter of two weeks. I've been feeding him way too much, I know. I think sometimes he may gets almost a lb of food a day because I don't weight it/feel bad about giving him such little amounts. :[
> 
> glad miss Snorkels is doing wonderfully!


I know what you mean - her amount seemed so tiny this morning, and I am planning to go with 5 oz instead of three. I think I was giving her more than 3 oz when I wasn't weighing, that's just hardly worth eating.


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## RaisingWolves (Mar 19, 2011)

xellil said:


> i stuck with a vet I didn't like for way too long, and when my last dog died I said enough, I'm finding one that talks to me, not at me.


Same here! I stuck with a vet that told me to rush my dog into surgery to remove a lump...that turned out to be a bug bite! I didn't know you could do a fine needle aspirate. The final straw was when he misdianosed her cushing's disease. I'm still unhappy with my current vet. He's better, but pushes Science & JD diet.

Someone on this forum posted a link that helped me locate a holistic vet in my area. I'm going to switch, and I pray this is the last switch I have to make. I want a vet who can follow the history of my dog's life and health.


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## G_slave01 (Dec 24, 2010)

i wish i could run with mine too but i'm a hard gainer (sorry everyone!) so burning extra calories not so good. i've been trying to convince my pudgy husband to get a bike and start cycling with her but so far he is ignoring me  i think you will see a big difference in his condition over the next 3 mths or so. when adopted my girl was about 10 lbs overweight and had no body conditioning at all. she is now lean & very defined. i wish now that i had taken a couple of before pictures.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

RaisingWolves said:


> Same here! I stuck with a vet that told me to rush my dog into surgery to remove a lump...that turned out to be a bug bite! I didn't know you could do a fine needle aspirate. The final straw was when he misdianosed her cushing's disease. I'm still unhappy with my current vet. He's better, but pushes Science & JD diet.
> 
> Someone on this forum posted a link that helped me locate a holistic vet in my area. I'm going to switch, and I pray this is the last switch I have to make. I want a vet who can follow the history of my dog's life and health.


Good for you - it's so easy to stay with someone just because that's what you've been doing a long time. I sure did. Doesn't sound like he's a great vet either, if he wants to do surgery on a bug bite. The Cushing's thing - I know someone else whose dog was misdiagnosed. That one is a little more understandable. 

Or the vet I took Snorkels to when we were on vacation and she got an ear infection - this experienced vet of 20+ years that was highly recommended by my friend whose dogs all went to her - gave her a medication that destroys the nerves in the ears of older dogs, and made her totally deaf. You just never know, with these vets. Luckily, snorkels beat the odds and has regained some of her hearing - but that woman should have known better.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

G_slave01 said:


> i wish i could run with mine too but i'm a hard gainer (sorry everyone!) so burning extra calories not so good. i've been trying to convince my pudgy husband to get a bike and start cycling with her but so far he is ignoring me  i think you will see a big difference in his condition over the next 3 mths or so. when adopted my girl was about 10 lbs overweight and had no body conditioning at all. she is now lean & very defined. i wish now that i had taken a couple of before pictures.


Would you be offended if i said ptttth??? 

I hope Rebel turns out like your girl - he's not a young dog but he's not old either, I wold like him to be a little more buff!


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## CavePaws (Jan 25, 2011)

Lol, xelil, we need a support group for people who have to feed their dogs less than 10 oz a day.:Cry:


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## RaisingWolves (Mar 19, 2011)

xellil said:


> The Cushing's thing - I know someone else whose dog was misdiagnosed. That one is a little more understandable.


Actually, a blood test was all that was needed for my dog. I took her in because she was urinating a lot and instead of taking her blood, he convinced me to run bladder tests (cost me close to $700). The tests came back normal and he was completely stumped. Never once suggested we should look at her blood values. My sister's dog died of kidney failure, and she told me to take my girl back for blood tests. The blood test came back with liver enzymes in the 3,000 range!


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## Jgk2383 (Oct 27, 2010)

aww congrats that things are doing well. I dont know if its the same for dogs and people but I have a horrible thyroid problem, im on synthroid, I watch what I eat etc and I cant lose a damn lb. Im not obese but im certainly not thin. I must have missed the snorkels story, I thought shes been with you for her whole life!


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Well. That's just nuts. not a very smart vet - maybe my friend had your vet also, when her dog wasn't diagnosed in FOREVER - she finally took him to a university teaching college and got the diagnosis. 

Jgk2383 i love your avatar, by the way. Do you have a video???

No, had Snorkels 13 months now. If I'd had her her whole life, she would darn sure have her teeth. I may not have fed raw, but I would have gotten them cleaned.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

CavePaws said:


> Lol, xelil, we need a support group for people who have to feed their dogs less than 10 oz a day.:Cry:


I agree. The teeny tiny portion club.


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## SerenityFL (Sep 28, 2010)

My girl gets 8 oz of food a day. (Some of that comes from her treats when we are training...I use chicken livers and gizzards, cut up.) She acts like she's starving to death but she clearly is not. 

When I first started raw it was difficult for ME to get over the small amount. Even for the cats it was hard....3oz? That's it? That's all they get? But I did what I was told and thought if I saw them getting weak or too thin, I'd up it. Only one cat have I upped it for because he's a big boy and he looks bigger than he is but that's cause he's got a lot of long, luxurious fur. Pick him up and you can feel that body wise, he's not that big. So I give him 4oz. 

I think the hardest part is realizing, (in most cases), that it truly IS enough for them.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

yep, but I am pretty sure I was giving her more than 3 oz when she lost the two pounds, so I still think I need to keep it above that a little bit. 

When i was talking to the lady who refused to sell me the Bravo! raw meat because I wasn't going to add veggies, she said to be careful because she knew of a dog that went from 125 to 75 pounds because of the poor diet. you know that general alarmist stuff to make me change my mind.

I responded to her the first thing I would think of with weight loss like that would be lack of food period, not lack of vegetables - and that i would never let my dog lose weight like that. Then Snorkels lost 20% of her body weight in 6 days!

It WAS lack of food, apparently (not lack of veggies, I should tell that lady that).


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## Jgk2383 (Oct 27, 2010)

poor snorkels. Im so happy she has a great and loving home now. What is her back story? That is not me in the avatar, I just love it. I wish I could do that with my dogs, you can see some of my dogs here. Home if you go to the members sections you will see my name Jaclyn and my husbands Name Damion, with our crew.


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## hcdoxies (Sep 22, 2010)

Just an FYI -- a lot of vets will weigh small dogs on the big walk-on scales that they use for big dogs. Those are WAY off for small dogs! My puppies weigh 3 pounds here (on my baby scale) then weigh 1 pound there. No way those puppies are 1 pound, LOL!


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## sassymaxmom (Dec 7, 2008)

Max came to raw food overweight. I had held him at 33 pounds to the age of 7 years. When I started feeding home cooked food I ran head first into that "bowl doesn't look like it has enough food to sustain my little buddy" thing and he gained 11 pounds of blubber. In my defense, bludder well hidden by his fluffy coat. So on raw he started out at 2% of 33 pounds and it was hard! He quickly lost about half that weight and that was that, the remainder refused to budge. After he had been on raw for about 18 months I finally got a freezer and was able to get more variety - including super lean whole prey. Getting to eat until really full but getting lean stuff took the rest of the fat off and put muscle back. He now weighs about 38 pounds and feels like he did as a 33 pound weakling but is much stronger and definitely a double armful to pick up.

Has a blood test been done lately to determine that the thyroid meds are doing the job? I wonder if feeding raw changes how much medication is needed?

I suspect feeding too little put Max into that starvation nutrient preserving mode where weight cannot be lost. 

And don't look at the scale, put your hands on the dog. Max would still be on a strict diet if I just looked at the scale! A couple times I had to feed him MORE as his sitting bones got very prominent.

At some point I hope to understand how much energy is in a given meal without having to go to ND all the time. This week he is getting a whole baby goat and apparently it is going to be gone in 4 days at a rate of 200% his usual. Since the things have no body fat he is probably getting the same calories he does when he eats a regular meal of 85% lean hamburger, chicken with skin and the like.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

What could be more perfect than training dogs in the Grand Canyon?? One day I swear, I will get back the desert. I'm from West Texas - not as magnificent as Arizona, but boy do I miss it.

Snorkels lived in a cage (not sure how long) and her owners took her to the kill shelter at 12 years old. Her toenails had curved, and were growing into the bottom of her pads (so no going outside) and she was caked and covered with her own feces and urine (also, no going outside the cage even to pee). She also weighed about 19 pounds, more than 100% of her ideal weight (so she was fed, constantly it seems).

The kill shelter didn't even try to adopt her out - she was old, filthy, fat, and smelled horrible because all of her teeth were green and rotten. So they put her on death row.

Her hero is not me - it's the volunteer at the shelter who saw her, and Monica the weenie dog lady. The volunteer called Monica who went straight to the shelter, where Snorkels was sitting in a cage with no food, water, pad, or blanket (not worth it to spend money on dogs who are just going to die soon) waiting for her turn. 

She is my first little dog (I always said I don't like or want a small dog) so we are both learning - I learned how to scoot my feet when I walk, for sure! 

Here are photos of her at about 15 pounds, after she had lost 4 pounds:


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

yes, she was actually weighed on three scales - two small ones and the big one. Surprisingly, the big one was only 1 oz different than the small ones.

I definitely feel of them, don't rely totally on the scales. They told me Snorkels ideal weight is between 8-9 pounds but I think 10 is better for her.


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## Jgk2383 (Oct 27, 2010)

That story made me tear up  poor snorkels. I want to hug her and kiss her


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## hcdoxies (Sep 22, 2010)

xellil said:


> She is my first little dog (I always said I don't like or want a small dog) so we are both learning - I learned how to scoot my feet when I walk, for sure!
> 
> Here are photos of her at about 15 pounds, after she had lost 4 pounds:
> 
> ...


haha, yes, we definitely have to scoot our feet when we walk!!!

And OH MY those pictures!!! And compared to your profile picture -- what a difference!


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

She is amazingly resilient - I just stand in awe of her. Needless to say, I am a dachshund fan now. What's funny is I had no idea she was a dachshund until I signed the papers for her - I didn't know they came with long hair and she was so fat she just looked like a big balloon with a nose and legs sticking out.


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## RaisingWolves (Mar 19, 2011)

I think the only small dog I would consider is a dachshund. Our biggest fear of little dogs is stepping on them! Or worse...rolling on them if you sleep with your dogs. Yes, we slept with two boxers in our bed for years. :smile:Our mastiff is a different story...I'm getting too old, and my body can't take giant bed hogs anymore!

Forgot to say...what an amazing before and after!


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## tem_sat (Jun 20, 2010)

To also give you another benchmark, I feed my 12ish pound doxie approximately 100 grams for breakfast (10 grams of liver + about 90 grams of bone-in chicken) + 5 grams for treats. (A bit over 3.5 ounces) A few days a week I will give him a bit more if I think he is looking slim, but to me, it's easier to keep his weight down on raw than kibble.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Well, I DID step on Snorkels several times. We both survived! Then I figured out the scoot thing. She sleeps in bed, but she doesn't like to be touched or cuddled, and never moves from the corner in her little spot. I would not sleep with her close to me because I sleep so sound I might not wake up if i squashed her.



> To also give you another benchmark, I feed my 12ish pound doxie approximately 100 grams for breakfast (10 grams of liver + about 90 grams of bone-in chicken) + 5 grams for treats. (A bit over 3.5 ounces) A few days a week I will give him a bit more if I think he is looking slim, but to me, it's easier to keep his weight down on raw than kibble.


Thanks - it seems with this diet, weight can go up and down really fast. I want to find am an amount and keep it there - now, she needs to lose a pound!


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## SerenityFL (Sep 28, 2010)

xellil said:


> Snorkels lived in a cage (not sure how long) and her owners took her to the kill shelter at 12 years old. *Her toenails had curved, and were growing into the bottom of her pads (so no going outside) and she was caked and covered with her own feces and urine *(also, no going outside the cage even to pee). She also weighed about 19 pounds, more than 100% of her ideal weight (so she was fed, constantly it seems).
> 
> The kill shelter didn't even try to adopt her out - she was old, filthy, fat, and smelled horrible because all of her teeth were green and rotten. So they put her on death row.


People like this make me want to puke. I suppose the shelter did nothing, did not report them for neglect and abuse? How on EARTH can someone treat a dog like that?! Disgusting!

I agree about the before and after photos....WHAT a difference!! You've done good, missy.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Apaprently not - they ask no questions, I guess, when you bring in a dog. What bothered me also was that they don't bother to feed, water, or give a blanket to dogs sitting on death row, OR take them out for bathroom breaks. We've had a couple of big shakeups with our animal control, so hopefully that has changed.

Well, I can apparently get a dog in shape alot better than I can myself. The only real hard part of dieting her were those eyes, my goodness those eyes always looking at me.... especially when she was on 1/8 cup of food, twice a day. I could literally count out 8 little pieces of dog food, no need to measure. But she was losing not quite a pound a month, which was I guess the right amount of food.

Edited to add: yes I have fantasies about those folks. Cage and all. I know there were two of them, middle age man and woman. Just enough for me to dream.. In the end, though, what they did (even though they knew they were bringing her to her death but didn't have the guts or were too cheap to get her put down by a vet) was a good thing for Snorkels. My guess is they were moving or something, and decided it was easier to get rid of her than to clean her cage out.


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## Herzo (Feb 5, 2011)

Oh I have to say it I HATE F.ING PEOPLE. Sorry moderators I just had to.What is wrong with people.About 3 weeks ago we got a Basset mix in at the shelter.I knew she was coming in had seen a picture of her on the internet.They called me when she came in.The mother of this guy had been taking care of the dog because he had to work and didn't have time for the dog any more.When she took it of course he got another dog.

The dog she says doesn't get alone with her boxer so she brought it to the shelter.I thought about it all weekend could it be.When I went in on the next Monday I walked in said whats the dogs name, I'm told Maddie, I said did she come in with that name yes is the answer.Crap I'm right, I fostered this dog 9 years ago.Went and looked at her, I'm so pissed off.She is so fat and has infections in her nipples.It is killing me,she is so sad.My husband doesn't really want another dog let alone an old dog we will have to put down in not so many years.I feel the same way some but can't stand it.We have wanted another Basset puppy for a long time now and one from a good breeder with good quality.I have been looking for 2 years and have found one.But we really do have our hands full with the 3 we have now.I HATE PEOPLE !!!!!!!!!!!

I don't even know if she could get up and down the stairs.I'm going nuts.Then you say at the animal control where you live they can treat an animal like that.Why do they get into animal control if they don't want to help the poor things, even if they have to be put down can't they make them comfortable at least till it's time.Have I mentioned I HATE PEOPLE


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## schtuffy (May 17, 2010)

That is awesome! (the vet and ears, not the weight gain ) An open-minded vet is a great find :smile: As for the teeth, it doesn't happen overnight. It took my dog about 4 months to notice a big difference.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Herzo said:


> Oh I have to say it I HATE F.ING PEOPLE.


yep, me too. And so many stories like Snorkels and your foster, it just goes on forever. 

It must have been awful to know you fostered this dog. There ARE people like me who prefer older dogs, maybe she will find one. Can you contact a Bassett rescue? I know with the Dobie rescues, they have permanent fosters - they know the dog will never be adopted, but they pay for the medical bills etc. at a foster.

I filled out the application to volunteer at that shelter, but haven't sent it in. My husband says I would probably end up either committing suicide or killing someone - I am thinking he might be right. I want to help, yet I am afraid it will send me off the deep end, seeing every day what people are willing to do to their dogs. I can't imagine not putting a blanket around a cold dog that has only hours to live.

special, special people who take in these dogs. I can take one or two now and then, send supplies and money - but face the dogs every day? I'm still debating whether I can do that and stay sane. if I said what I WANTED to do, even on a chat board, I'm afraid Io would be arrested!


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

schtuffy said:


> That is awesome! (the vet and ears, not the weight gain ) An open-minded vet is a great find :smile: As for the teeth, it doesn't happen overnight. It took my dog about 4 months to notice a big difference.


I KNOW! And also that she seemed to know about giving the teeth time to get clean. I love my vet. She so obviously loves dogs - sometimes when I visit vets I wonder why they are even in the business. So even when she's wrong, just the fact that she's trying so hard makes it ok.


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## G_slave01 (Dec 24, 2010)

those @@#$%! this is a heartbreaking thread.....when looking for a dog to adopt last year i cried buckets just reading all the horrible stories. i think the worst were the rottis and other "muscle" dogs. this is my first dog so i didn't feel i had the skills to adopt a badly abused, aggresive or fearful dog. Gypsy was abandoned or lost when she was picked up by animal control and spent one year at a remote shelter/kennel waiting for us. other than being a little "wild" she didn't really have any behavour issues. i would love to volunteer at a shelter but i would either be bawling or raging & that probably wouldn't help anyone.... (my husband has dubbed me with the nickname firechicken.. romantic eh?) 

btw i am feeding almost 2lbs a day and those EYES get to me too! sometimes i crumble ...here honey have a little extra ...ah what the heck life's to short!


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

Congratulations on the improved health. When I was trying to get my girl to lose weight I made sure to remove excess fat, and she got prettylean cuts. I fed her alot of lung becaue the fat was only about 3% and she could eat a little more and feel full. She lost a lot of weight over about 6 weeks but she also gained incredible muscle tone. At 7 years old she looks like a 3 year old and her black coat just shines. Be patient and if you can just watch the amounts and maybe cut back a tiny bit. He will slose and gain great muscle though. Congrats again.


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## Northwoods10 (Nov 22, 2010)

Thank you for saving Snorkels. Honestly. People like you are amazing to give these dogs a second chance at life. The life they should have had all along. 

I like to think there's a special place in hell for anyone who abuses animals. Unacceptable.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

G_slave01 said:


> those @@#$%! this is a heartbreaking thread.....when looking for a dog to adopt last year i cried buckets just reading all the horrible stories. i think the worst were the rottis and other "muscle" dogs. this is my first dog so i didn't feel i had the skills to adopt a badly abused, aggresive or fearful dog. Gypsy was abandoned or lost when she was picked up by animal control and spent one year at a remote shelter/kennel waiting for us. other than being a little "wild" she didn't really have any behavour issues. i would love to volunteer at a shelter but i would either be bawling or raging & that probably wouldn't help anyone.... (my husband has dubbed me with the nickname firechicken.. romantic eh?)
> 
> btw i am feeding almost 2lbs a day and those EYES get to me too! sometimes i crumble ...here honey have a little extra ...ah what the heck life's to short!


Just my opinion - pit bulls, the worst. I don't know why they are bred like crazy, and not alot of people will adopt them as pets. There has to be something to do with the dogfighting etc. And try to be an 80 pound GS/lab/pit mix that's a year old and never had any structure or training - no home for you at all.

i think your experience with Gypsy is more typical than not, and thank heaven for folks like you who adopt these babies. I do think some shelter dogs have issues, but many, many have nothing more troublesome than not knowing manners and a good training class would fix that - unfortunately, I think there is a real perception out there that if a dog is homeless, there must be something wrong with him. 

Most of the dogs I ended up with that got dumped near my parents house were dogs the college kids had gotten and the dog had gotten big enough to be a hassle, or the semester ended, so they just drove them out to the country and dumped them out. Some of the dogs would sit on the side of the road for days, waiting for them to return. It just kills you. And they were mostly well socialized, even, hanging out with kids and their friends for the few months until they got tired of them, although usually not having many manners - the kids that took the time to work with the dogs didn't dump them on the side of the road.

unfortunately, Snorkels story isn't even close to the worst. So give Gypsy a big kiss - how exciting to get your first dog! And no, I'm sure it probably wouldn't have been a good idea for you to get a Rottweiler with issues, even those theirs are often the most heartbreaking stories.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Northwoods10 said:


> Thank you for saving Snorkels. Honestly. People like you are amazing to give these dogs a second chance at life. The life they should have had all along.
> 
> I like to think there's a special place in hell for anyone who abuses animals. Unacceptable.


Frankly, it's a bit selfish of me, as I am at an age where an older dog is my preference. I have probably owned 30-40 dogs in my life, and the vast majority were large males. That worked out well when I lived in the middle of nowhere, took out at dawn for a 10 mile run, etc. Oh I loved them all but I can't imagine being capabable of that now. We like our strolls through the neighborhood and trips to the dog park! There was a time in my life when a dog like Snorkels wouldn't have fit in at all. 

I do hope there is a special place in hell. Doesn't seem fair if people never have to account for some of the stuff they do to their pets.


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## CavePaws (Jan 25, 2011)

xelil, I think I need to get a scale. D: Puck's meal yesterday consisted of a chicken thigh, beef heart, and egg, ground beef, and ground boar. D: There was no way it could've been under 10 0z. I'm such a loser...]:! I'm serious about the support group it's like I'm addicted to feeding my poor old man good food. I feel like he has to make up for all the years he was eating the crappiest of kibbles.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

CavePaws said:


> xelil, I think I need to get a scale. D: Puck's meal yesterday consisted of a chicken thigh, beef heart, and egg, ground beef, and ground boar. D: There was no way it could've been under 10 0z. I'm such a loser...]:! I'm serious about the support group it's like I'm addicted to feeding my poor old man good food. I feel like he has to make up for all the years he was eating the crappiest of kibbles.



Hmmmm, i bet the egg weighs 4-5 oz -- and the thigh had to weigh 4-5 oz. Yep, I would say you need some help. 

that is too funny - and they _like_ it so much - I told my husband Snorkels is like a baby bird, always sitting there looking up at me with those big eyes. hard to say no to that.


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## CavePaws (Jan 25, 2011)

-________-" I guess what I need to do is only feed him once a day and just really tiny amounts of lots of stuff so I don't feel as bad. 

Omg, I bet Snorkels is even harder to resist than Puck. That look in the avatar just makes me want to give her a heaping bowl full of meat!

edit: I think it's doubly as sad that I tried to convince myself the egg didn't count as much and was only "supplemental" to his meal.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

HAHA - is that kind of like "Cake has no calories on my birthday?"

yes, Rebel doesn't do that to me in the first place, and in the second place she will sit there staring at me and moving her weight back and forth from foot to foot (like in the avatar) and making this kind of grunting noise. you'd think she hadn't eaten in a week. And her eyes are so dark the pupils don't show - just these big black wet eyes.

if i am in the living room and even so much as make a twitch toward the kitchen, she runs/bounces in there acting like she is the happiest dog in the world, big ears flopping everywhere, and sits in front of the counter, waiting for me. I feel bad if I'm only going to the bathroom.

Honestly, I have gotten alot more hardhearted to it over the past 13 months, because I know how important it is for her to keep her weight down. But I still stay keenly aware that her biggest joy in life is food. 

I had her read by a pet communicator once - she told me Snorkels would love a calendar of herself, and was concerned she had bad breath. The only mention of food was that she wanted a chicken nugget now and then. I was more hoping along the lines of whether she might be tired from her heart condition, or if something hurt. I'm pretty sure dogs don't worry about bad breath.

Even I know that 99% of her brain is focused on mealtime. If anyone is truly able to communicate with her, that's what they would see - a giant chicken thigh in her head.


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