# Smoked Meats?



## blue_dog (Mar 28, 2012)

I asked this earlier in my other thread but now it seems to be the thing that is holding us back from raw. My Dad bought half a pig a couple of years ago and when I was cleaning out our freezers to make space for or imminent plunge into raw I discovered a ton of great meat for Sam that we never used. Among them were a lot of smoked meats. At least 20 lbs, maybe more(leaning towards more). I never measured them after finding that they wouldn't work for a PMR diet. 

They are taking up valuable freezer space but my Dad won't let me throw them out. They're freezer burned and no good for us. I thought maybe I could make treats out of them as a last resort, but now he's getting upset about that. I can't get any chicken until he lets me deal with this smoked meat. 

So for clarity's sake, why can't dogs on a Prey Model raw diet have meats with artificial smoke flavouring in them? 

My Dad's master plan is that we will feed that to Sam until it runs out and then get the chicken. Completely defeating the purpose of starting with chicken. Even if I wanted to feed him the smoked meat I still need to start with chicken, his tummy isn't made of steal like our past dog, Blue's, stomach was.

Looking through some past threads, I think I will try turning them into treats. The meat is still raw, or at least not fully cooked. If I dehydrate them can I keep them out of the freezer? Or will they spoil?

Thank you for any help guys. I'm hoping my friend will get back to me about chicken backs soon and then we can finally start!


----------



## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

smoked meats have nitrites and nitrates in them....plus preservatives and they are high in sodium.

for those reasons, i would not feed them to dogs....'course, i don't eat them either, but that is neither here nor there


----------



## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

Why in Gods name would you want to put crap like that into a dogs system? If your gonna do it right, do it right from the start....Just sayin!


----------



## blue_dog (Mar 28, 2012)

Thanks magicre. 



whiteleo said:


> Why in Gods name would you want to put crap like that into a dogs system? If your gonna do it right, do it right from the start....Just sayin!


Well that's not productive to the conversation.... I know it's not good I wanted to know why exactly so as to explain it to my Dad. He told me if I throw out the smoked meat than I would have to throw out all the meat out and just stick with our cheap-o kibble. Including the turkey necks I just bought. So I need to explain why we can't keep it, and then if I must keep what I can do with it that will do the least harm to Sam/that I can throw out slowly over time while giving me the freezer space that I need.


----------



## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

blue_dog said:


> Thanks magicre.
> 
> 
> 
> Well that's not productive to the conversation.... I know it's not good I wanted to know why exactly so as to explain it to my Dad. He told me if I throw out the smoked meat than I would have to throw out all the meat out and just stick with our cheap-o kibble. Including the turkey necks I just bought. So I need to explain why we can't keep it, and then if I must keep what I can do with it that will do the least harm to Sam/that I can throw out slowly over time while giving me the freezer space that I need.


Does it really need to be explained to an adult, really? I'm sorry! But everyone knows that nitrates are BAD for humans and everything else in between,right? It is an obvious answer if you've done any research on the raw diet, and the answer could be found by googling smoked meats and ingredients


----------



## blue_dog (Mar 28, 2012)

:/ Same with half of the threads on this forum. If you didn't like my question you didn't have to answer. *shrugs*

I didn't know smoked meats had nitrates in them, and since smoked meat isn't part of a raw diet, how is that obvious if I've researched it? And perhaps this _is_ part of my research? I don't know about you, but I always say that if someone is willing to ask the questions when it comes to their pet's care, than they shouldn't be made to feel bad for researching. I thought that was common sense. Yet it seems it isn't if nearly every pet care forum has people that do the same thing. I have been researching for sometime, and I am happy that I am doing what is right for my dog. 

But annnnnyyywaaaaaaayyss. I just wanted to get a clear cut answer to tell my Dad. And I did, thank you again magicre.


----------



## angelbears (Jun 9, 2011)

Blue, thank you for the question on smoked meats. I was looking for the answer to that myself.


----------



## Malika04 (May 14, 2012)

I wanted to add bacon to both of my dogs diet, instead I found pork (or pig) fat. It is free of nitrates. I bought some at a local grocery store, maybe 1 lb. It lasted 1 week for 2 dogs along with bone in leg quarters. I paid under 2 dollars for it and I will buy more after they transition. I just got excited and tested it on them.


----------



## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

blue_dog said:


> :I didn't know smoked meats had nitrates in them, and since smoked meat isn't part of a raw diet, how is that obvious if I've researched it? And perhaps this _is_ part of my research? I don't know about you, but I always say that if someone is willing to ask the questions when it comes to their pet's care, than they shouldn't be made to feel bad for researching. I thought that was common sense. Yet it seems it isn't if nearly every pet care forum has people that do the same thing. I have been researching for sometime, and I am happy that I am doing what is right for my dog.
> 
> But annnnnyyywaaaaaaayyss. I just wanted to get a clear cut answer to tell my Dad. And I did, thank you again magicre.


There is a difference in "smoked" or "cured." Curing is what adds all the salt and nitrates, but I think alot of meats are cured before they are smoked to remove the moisture and prevent spoilage.

BUT, the smoke itself has alot of crap in it. 

You might point your dad to this page - it says smoke has over 300 components in it. 
Smoked meat: Information from Answers.com

Really, when all is said and done it's not that great for people, either.


> Smoking is a preservative because smoke contains chemical compounds that retard the growth of harmful bacteria. More than three hundred components of smoke have been identified. Carbonyl compounds in smoke contribute to the distinctive flavor and aroma of smoked meat, while the carbon dioxide and carbon monoxide help produce the bright red pigment. Phenolic compounds in smoke play a role in protecting fat from oxidizing and turning rancid, which is no doubt a major reason why fatty foods, such as herring or pork, were (and are) so often smoked. The composition of the smoke changes as the temperature of the fire rises, with the best quality smoke produced at a temperature of 650° to 750°F. Control of humidity in the smokehouse is also important since high humidity favors deposition of smoke on the surface of the food and absorption of the flavor. High humidity also assists in the rendering of fat.


----------



## blue_dog (Mar 28, 2012)

Thank you! 

I'm not kidding, Sam's side of the freezer is full, and it's the larger half:

















If I could get those smoked roasts out then we could get his chicken in, maybe with some spill over into the human side (shhhh!). I need that space, lol. 

*edit* Excuse all the ice build up, I've been working on getting it off. >.<


----------



## Malika04 (May 14, 2012)

Throw out the smoked meat, secretly.

Tell him the dogs ate it all up.

Buy smoke and nitrate free meats.

How will he know if the dogs ate it or not?


----------



## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

My dogs have had raw bacon (that went bad) here and there over the past year (a couple of slices on one or two occasions) but it should not make up any major part of their diet. I would never buy smoked meats for them. We had this bacon and they needed something in their bellies (we were running low on dog food on the day before pay day) so they ate it just to keep the hunger pukes at bay. He isn't going to keel over and die if you feed some to him but I, personally, would not feed it to him.

I would just explain to him that dogs should not have smoked meats. A wolf doesn't have access to a smoker. Animals don't smoke their food. If they did... well, let's just be glad they can't because if they were that smart we would certainly not be the "dominant" species anymore!

Tell him that, in order for his system to adjust to this diet he needs to start out on chicken and starting him out on something else could cause more problems than it's worth. The meat is freezerburnt so the humans won't like it and the dog shouldn't have it so what use there in keeping it?


----------



## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

thanks, nikie, for clarifying that.

i always think of bacon as smoked, but that's not right....

even still, you're right. smoking and curing...not so good for man nor beast...even though it tastes mad crazy good.


----------



## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

magicre said:


> thanks, nikie, for clarifying that.
> 
> i always think of bacon as smoked, but that's not right....
> 
> even still, you're right. smoking and curing...not so good for man nor beast...even though it tastes mad crazy good.


But doesn't all pork go through a curing /ingredient added for human consumption? Unless you buy uncured in the organic grocery stores?


----------



## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

Mmmm now I want smoked salmon


----------



## Celt (Dec 27, 2010)

Maybe try a small white lie and tell him, you found out that smoked meat will cause severe diarhea and in some extreme cases pancreatis (sp?). Which is kinda of true, if you feed a newly transition dog meats that are "rich" then they generally get "explosive" diarhea and many (especially kibble fed) dogs develop pancreatis from eating "overly fatty" foods, which most smoked meat is.


----------



## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

whiteleo said:


> But doesn't all pork go through a curing /ingredient added for human consumption? Unless you buy uncured in the organic grocery stores?


all pork? i don't understand what you're saying.

the pork loin i buy is not cured and it's not organic. 

even swift pork is not cured. and they are amongst the worst handlers of piggies...

you can buy an uncured ham but i thought that was a piggie cut of meat...

am i not understanding what you're saying?


----------



## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

The pork ribs and pork loin i've seen in the grocery store haven't been cured.

The shoulders, roasts, all those prepackaged ones have been cured. At least they have ton of salt in them.


----------



## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

xellil said:


> The pork ribs and pork loin i've seen in the grocery store haven't been cured.
> 
> The shoulders, roasts, all those prepackaged ones have been cured. At least they have ton of salt in them.


then i must live in hog heaven LOL...the brand i buy is not cured....not the shoulders or any other cut unless specified as smoked or cured...

i think prairie pride and five star are the brands of pork i buy.


----------



## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Yep, maybe I'm just not lookiing in the right place- and frankly, I don't look very much. The last time I checked one it had 790 gms of sodium per serving.


----------



## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

yikes. way too much. wow.


----------



## Sheltielover25 (Jan 18, 2011)

whiteleo said:


> But doesn't all pork go through a curing /ingredient added for human consumption? Unless you buy uncured in the organic grocery stores?


I'm pretty sure it does. It might not be more than the recommended amount on here, which is like what, less than 100mg per 4 servings? Either way, things that come from the store have some salt added to it. I guess they do it to preserve the meat? add flavor? not sure, but that's why I try to stay away from anything that has any added salt... I like plain old raw meat... nothing added, even if it's less than recommended amount, and I have never seen that here in the stores...unless, like you mentioned, it's at an alternative store. Even the ones they say they aren't enhanced still have sodium... what's up with that? If it's unenhanced, why does it have any salt added to it?


----------



## 1605 (May 27, 2009)

whiteleo said:


> But doesn't all pork go through a curing /ingredient added for human consumption? Unless you buy uncured in the organic grocery stores?


No, why would it? Pork that is sold in any of my local grocery stores is simply pork, just like any other protein source. If they added any curing agent to it they would be obliged to label it as such.

In fact, since I make my own "Peameal Bacon", I buy a whole boneless pork tenderloin, cut it into approx 1 lb pieces, then put it through a curing process. (No, you CANNOT get "Back Bacon" or "Peameal Bacon" south of the 49th Parallel. Anything they label as "Canadian-style" or "Canadian Bacon" here in the US is in fact HAM.)

FWIW,


----------



## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Sheltielover25 said:


> I'm pretty sure it does. It might not be more than the recommended amount on here, which is like what, less than 100mg per 4 servings? Either way, things that come from the store have some salt added to it. I guess they do it to preserve the meat? add flavor? not sure, but that's why I try to stay away from anything that has any added salt... I like plain old raw meat... nothing added, even if it's less than recommended amount, and I have never seen that here in the stores...unless, like you mentioned, it's at an alternative store. Even the ones they say they aren't enhanced still have sodium... what's up with that? If it's unenhanced, why does it have any salt added to it?


Meat has a little bit of salt in it, naturally. 

However, I have often wondered if the label is reflecting what already comes with the meat or if it is added after. I mean, they don't put X mg phosphorus which is also somewhere in the meat.


----------



## Sheltielover25 (Jan 18, 2011)

xellil said:


> Meat has a little bit of salt in it, naturally.
> 
> However, I have often wondered if the label is reflecting what already comes with the meat or if it is added after. I mean, they don't put X mg phosphorus which is also somewhere in the meat.


Right? I have to find that website. There are ways they use sodium, but get around putting it on the label. They use it at all stages of the processing... I like your point, a lot. I am pretty sure anything you get in a regular store, is somewhat altered. There's no way you could raise a pig correctly, feed it correctly, and process it correctly and make a profit by selling it for .99-1.99lb. There's a reason it costs more when you go to alternative stores, and that is because it's more expensive to do things right. But in the end, cheaper, because less medical bills... imo.


----------



## BearMurphy (Feb 29, 2012)

i use this to look up nutrients and calories Foods List. i think meat typically has less than 100 mg of sodium per 4 oz in it's natural state

i like to buy fresh pork shoulder from a local meat market because it's a good price and so I hope it's not all enhanced. i thought it had to be labeled too. there is a supermarket near me that sells only hormel tender cuts or something like that is clearly labeled as enhanced


----------



## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

BearMurphy said:


> i use this to look up nutrients and calories Foods List. i think meat typically has less than 100 mg of sodium per 4 oz in it's natural state
> 
> i like to buy fresh pork shoulder from a local meat market because it's a good price and so I hope it's not all enhanced. i thought it had to be labeled too. there is a supermarket near me that sells only hormel tender cuts or something like that is clearly labeled as enhanced


when we buy pork shoulder...rare, but we do buy it, the sodium is under 100 mg per four ounce serving.


----------



## Gally (Jan 28, 2012)

I thought this was interesting.
Sodium Content Of Meat Products | LIVESTRONG.COM


----------

