# Spin off.....Ignorant people!!



## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

OK...I thought it was funny today when this happened because of us talking about the other ignorant thread!:wink:

Ok so I was out walking the Collies together today, I had this lady come up to me and comment how well behaved they where. I told her thank you and said "It is relatively easy with how smart they are, as long as you know how to do it right and give them enough physical and mental exercise, thats why we are out and about!" She chuckled and said "I grew up with Border Collies on acres, we never had to train them!" :tape: I was SUPER confused and asked "Where they farm dogs?" She said "Yes, but we never did anything other then teach them the herding signals." I couldnt stay quite and asked "How were they around small animals? Where they in the house at all? Where they as well behaved and friendly as Rhett and Leo" She was still very open, I assumed that she would have not wanted to talk any more...but kept going!LOL She was like Oh that was their main food was any small animal that they could catch, rabbit, cat, mouse, rat what ever...they where only not allowed in with the chickens! and no they weren't allowed in the house and my dad always had to have us lock them into one of the stalls when they had people come over!"

I was baffled by the fact that she didnt understand what she herself was saying, so I just had to share!!! :tape2: :twitch: :suspicious:


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## SilverBeat (Jan 16, 2011)

To a certain extent I can understand, after all they are working dogs, but I believe they should be treated as family members as well. Obviously you can't invite a stock guardian dog inside to come sleep on your bed, but border collies [and herders in general, imo] are different. Way back when, they were always one of two places, either with the sheep or at their owner's side. That's sad that they had to be locked up whenever there was company.


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

SilverBeat said:


> To a certain extent I can understand, after all they are working dogs, but I believe they should be treated as family members as well. Obviously you can't invite a stock guardian dog inside to come sleep on your bed, but border collies [and herders in general, imo] are different. Way back when, they were always one of two places, either with the sheep or at their owner's side. That's sad that they had to be locked up whenever there was company.


Oh I wasnt bashing the fact that the dogs that she grew up with where stock dogs...and like you said ideally that shouldnt matter anyways...but she was SHOCKED by how well behaved even my 15 week old is and didnt understand the difference between my trained house dogs to her completely untrained dogs growing up!:wink:


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## SilverBeat (Jan 16, 2011)

Scarlett_O' said:


> Oh I wasnt bashing the fact that the dogs that she grew up with where stock dogs...and like you said ideally that shouldnt matter anyways...*but she was SHOCKED by how well behaved even my 15 week old is and didnt understand the difference between my trained house dogs to her completely untrained dogs growing up!:wink:*


Ahh... that's the part I didn't get! I can't believe she's never heard about how smart and "trainable" BCs are?! How strange.


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

SilverBeat said:


> Ahh... that's the part I didn't get! I can't believe she's never heard about how smart and "trainable" BCs are?! How strange.


LOL, I figured not, that is why I re-said it!:smile: But yes that is the part that I didnt get, it was like she thought in the 30 or so years since she had been a kid that BCs had magically become calmer or somethign!LOL


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## 1605 (May 27, 2009)

Scarlett_O' said:


> OK...I thought it was funny today when this happened because of us talking about the other ignorant thread!:wink:
> 
> Ok so I was out walking the Collies together today, I had this lady come up to me and comment how well behaved they where. I told her thank you and said "It is relatively easy with how smart they are, as long as you know how to do it right and give them enough physical and mental exercise, thats why we are out and about!" She chuckled and said "I grew up with Border Collies on acres, we never had to train them!" :tape: I was SUPER confused and asked "Where they farm dogs?" She said "Yes, but we never did anything other then teach them the herding signals." I couldnt stay quite and asked "How were they around small animals? Where they in the house at all? Where they as well behaved and friendly as Rhett and Leo" She was still very open, I assumed that she would have not wanted to talk any more...but kept going!LOL She was like Oh that was their main food was any small animal that they could catch, rabbit, cat, mouse, rat what ever...they where only not allowed in with the chickens! and no they weren't allowed in the house and my dad always had to have us lock them into one of the stalls when they had people come over!"
> 
> I was baffled by the fact that she didnt understand what she herself was saying, so I just had to share!!! :tape2: :twitch: :suspicious:


I don't know if I would have labeled this woman "ignorant". She obviously didn't see that the BCs she had as a child were "trained" in other, less formal ways than putting them through structured obedience classes. They were trained through real life experiences. And this is a product of the environment in which they lived.

Many people who live in rural or farm settings do not have the type of relationship with their animals that most of us have on this forum. I'm not saying any particular interconnection is right or wrong. They are just different. My only caveat is that ANY living creature, whether it's a dog, bird, pig, cow, whatever, be treated with decency & respect that any living thing deserves. Even if you are going to eat that creature, keep it in a humane way & dispatch it in as quick and clean a manner as you can. 

Yes, I eat meat & I probably would have a hard time raising an animal and ultimately slaughtering it. But if that was my main source of protein, I guess I'd have to develop a different attitude. On the boat we "farmed the sea" and that was ok. But I tend to have a tougher time with a mammal like a rabbit or a bird. Probably because there's nothing really cute or cuddly about creatures like conch. :wink:

But I digress...

What I cannot & will not tolerate is people treating other living creatures as inanimate objects. A dog is not a piece of furniture. You don't treat a dog the same way you treat your end table.

I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir on this subject. Sorry for long response. I just know from experience that there are people who treat their dogs as spoiled children and those that treat them as livestock. I'll try not to judge either end of the spectrum as long as the dog is treated humanely.

Just my $.02's worth...


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## monkeys23 (Dec 8, 2010)

Have you lived with a ranch dog? They get nasty dirty the nine months of winter. Its just not feasible to have them in the house with you and it is way too cold to wash them when they have to go right back out and work. Just because they aren't sleeping in the bed with you doesn't mean they weren't cared for.

See a lot of pet owners that don't train their dogs at all too. I really hate my neighbor's stupid lab that nuisance barks 24/7 and climbs the fence. To then attack my dogs. That dog lives inside most of the time and I wouldn't call that an ideal home. Most people just suck and don't care to train basic manners.


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## 1605 (May 27, 2009)

monkeys23 said:


> See a lot of pet owners that don't train their dogs at all too. I really hate my neighbor's stupid lab that nuisance barks 24/7 and climbs the fence. To then attack my dogs. That dog lives inside most of the time and I wouldn't call that an ideal home. Most people just suck and don't care to train basic manners.


Really? "Most people just suck..."??? Perhaps your bad experiences with your neighbour are colouring your perception just a wee bit? I don't think I can recall a particular dog owner on our street that is willfully ignorant to the point of pissing everyone one off.... :shocked:


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## doggiedad (Jan 23, 2011)

she said she never had to train them. she said they were trained to herding signals.
i think she knew the difference between a trained BC or one that isn't considering
hers were trained to herd.



Scarlett_O' said:


> Oh I wasnt bashing the fact that the dogs that she grew up with where stock dogs...and like you said ideally that shouldnt matter anyways...but she was SHOCKED by how well behaved even my 15 week old is and didnt understand the difference between my trained house dogs to her completely untrained dogs growing up!:wink:


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## jiml (Jun 29, 2010)

See a lot of pet owners that don't train their dogs at all too. I really hate my neighbor's stupid lab that nuisance barks 24/7 and climbs the fence.>>>>

im sure you have all seen dogs that had no training whatsoever that are great dogs also, I know i have mant times. It depends on the dog.


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## SerenityFL (Sep 28, 2010)

SubMariner said:


> Many people who live in rural or farm settings do not have the type of relationship with their animals that most of us have on this forum. I'm not saying any particular interconnection is right or wrong. They are just different. My only caveat is that ANY living creature, whether it's a dog, bird, pig, cow, whatever, be treated with decency & respect that any living thing deserves. Even if you are going to eat that creature, keep it in a humane way & dispatch it in as quick and clean a manner as you can.
> 
> What I cannot & will not tolerate is people treating other living creatures as inanimate objects. A dog is not a piece of furniture. You don't treat a dog the same way you treat your end table.
> 
> I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir on this subject.


You certainly are here. I have some new friends that have animals that they intend to eat one day and I have to say...I'm not so sure I really like how those animals are kept. The pens are WAY too small, overcrowded and it was really sad for me to see that. Example: chickens. Where I used to work, we had chickens that were allowed to run around the park, freely. I learned, because of this, just how...personable...chickens can really be. They have some hilarious "personalities" and are quite the little characters if treated right. Theirs are kept in overcrowded pens with hardly any room to move about, freely, without bumping in to another chicken.

Sure, there is a difference in how you spend time with a pet chicken and one you will eat, one day. You don't name them, you don't get all fond of them and hug them like we did with the chickens at my old work...but they still should be treated humanely. 

I eat meat, I don't begrudge anyone who eats meat or raises animals to eat them. I couldn't do it, unless, I suppose, it was my only option and still it would be difficult for me...but animals must be treated humanely.

And yes, I get really disgusted and angry when people treat animals as if they are objects and not living, breathing creatures.

"The question is not: 'Can they reason?' nor 'Can they talk?' but 'Can they suffer?'" ~ Philosopher Jeremy Bentham


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