# Is High Protein content for puppies bad?



## mintzert (Feb 14, 2010)

Could anybody explain this apparant inconsistency: folks at dogfoodanalysis rate puppy food brands such orijin, acana, horizon legacy, as six or 5 star products, yet in their summary analysis fail to recommend them due to the high protein content in the kibble. They state high protein is not suitable for puppies, only large dogs. I would think that since these brands are rated very highly (including the puppy kibble) these companies would have the proper percentages of fats, proteins, and carbs in their kibble. Thanks for the clarification.


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## dogtrainer1507 (Feb 7, 2010)

thats a good question. I was wondering if how they rate them has anything to do with how much people buy them as well. I think the food i feed my dogs is rated a 3 but I personally would rate it higher, i think my dogs and cats for that matter do great on it and a lot of my clients seems to like it as well. But it isn't a really well known product and you don't find it in many stores so maybe thats why.


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## harrkim120 (Feb 2, 2010)

dogtrainer1507 said:


> thats a good question. I was wondering if how they rate them has anything to do with how much people buy them as well. I think the food i feed my dogs is rated a 3 but I personally would rate it higher, i think my dogs and cats for that matter do great on it and a lot of my clients seems to like it as well. But it isn't a really well known product and you don't find it in many stores so maybe thats why.


Dog Food Analysis doesn't rate the foods based on popularity, they base it on how much meat is in the food. They also take into account how many fillers and "junk" ingredients are in the product. If you read multiple reviews, you'll notice this pattern.

As for the whole "no high protein foods for puppies" debate, I honestly can't say. Just like the whole "raw vs. kibble" debate, it seems to be mostly opinion. I'm sure there is a real answer somewhere, but definitely not with me. lol I'm totally undecided on the whole thing.


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## dogtrainer1507 (Feb 7, 2010)

So they just strictly look at what ingredients right, not the quality of the ingredients or the reasoning by the formulator as to why they are in the food in the first place. Am I understanding that correctly?


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## GermanSheperdlover (Nov 15, 2009)

RFD, says high protein is fine as long as it comes from a meat source. I kinda of agree with him, but I must admit I waited until my dog was almost 5 months old before I stated feeding him a higher protein food. I was feeding Innova and California Natural, both puppy foods. Now, he is almost 9 months, I feed Orijen LBP and Taste of the Wild at night (grainless high protein) which is his largest meal. In the morning I feed Fromms duck and California Natural (grains and low protein). Now, when the bag of CN is gone, I doubt if I will buy anymore. I have not made up my mind what I am going to do, because my dog seems to be getting more aggressive. I understand it could because of him getting older, ooor could it be the high protein has something to do with it?? It has only been latley that I have begun feeding more of the higher protein food than that of the lower protein food. I have about 2 weeks to make up my mind.


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## harrkim120 (Feb 2, 2010)

dogtrainer1507 said:


> So they just strictly look at what ingredients right, not the quality of the ingredients or the reasoning by the formulator as to why they are in the food in the first place. Am I understanding that correctly?


Yes ma'am. :smile:


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## GermanSheperdlover (Nov 15, 2009)

dogtrainer1507 said:


> So they just strictly look at what ingredients right, not the quality of the ingredients or the reasoning by the formulator as to why they are in the food in the first place. Am I understanding that correctly?


NO, they use all factors, to include quality of the ingredients. They point out use of fillers and other factors of why they like or dislike a certain food.


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## GermanSheperdlover (Nov 15, 2009)

harrkim120 said:


> Yes ma'am. :smile:



You are totally wrong, I have seen MANY reasons given why they do not like certain foods.. Go look around at the No.1-No.3 stars.


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## GermanSheperdlover (Nov 15, 2009)

I just randomly selected a food and they give a couple of reasons why they didn't really like this product


Dog Food Reviews - Burns Pork & Potato - Powered by ReviewPost


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## harrkim120 (Feb 2, 2010)

GermanSheperdlover said:


> You are totally wrong, I have seen MANY reasons given why they do not like certain foods.. Go look around at the No.1-No.3 stars.


OK...I got your point, but I wouldn't say "wrong"...I'm just seeing it from a different point of view. 

It is true that they don't look into the reasons as to why the formulator put certain ingredients in the food. And to me when someone asks about the "quality" of the ingredients, I think more like where it came from, was it in a clean facility, etc. not is that ingredient a good quality ingredient for the food overall. That they do not get into, unless I'm missing something still....


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

They base their ratings on some arbitrary formula. For example, they start out with 100 points. If the first ingredient is a meat, they add so many points. If 3 of the first 5 ingredients are not meat, they substract so many points. If they contain so many meat meals, they add or subtract so many points. If they contain corn, they subtract so many points. There are 30 or 40 things that will cause them to add or subtract points. I used to know the exact formulas but I don't know where to find them now. The ratings are based on the final score. All this is based on that they consider positive or negative things and how positive or negative these things are. There are things they consider positive that I consider negative and vice versa.


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## Khan (Jan 17, 2010)

As far as high protein is concerned. It use to be "taboo" to feed a large breed puppy a high protein food because you did not want them to grow too fast. The thinking has changed over the years. There are now more factors then just the protein that need to be looked at. Calcium and Phosphorous levels are also to be considered. If you have a high level of protein as you do with Orijen (40+%) AND the Calcium level is BELOW 1.5% AND the Phosphorous level is below .09-1.0% this is now considered acceptable. Just like with so many things, looking at one ingredient doesn't make sense. You need to look at ALL the ingredients and how they work together. Hope this helps.


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## dogtrainer1507 (Feb 7, 2010)

It is true that they don't look into the reasons as to why the formulator put certain ingredients in the food. And to me when someone asks about the "quality" of the ingredients, I think more like where it came from, was it in a clean facility, etc. not is that ingredient a good quality ingredient for the food overall. That they do not get into, unless I'm missing something still....

Your not missing anything that's what I was asking about. Thanks


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## harrkim120 (Feb 2, 2010)

dogtrainer1507 said:


> It is true that they don't look into the reasons as to why the formulator put certain ingredients in the food. And to me when someone asks about the "quality" of the ingredients, I think more like where it came from, was it in a clean facility, etc. not is that ingredient a good quality ingredient for the food overall. That they do not get into, unless I'm missing something still....
> 
> Your not missing anything that's what I was asking about. Thanks


No problem. :smile:

Very cute dog by the way.:biggrin: How old his he/she?


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## dogtrainer1507 (Feb 7, 2010)

She is 5 years old she was waiting for my husband to come home she does it every night.


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## Todd (Jan 13, 2010)

from what i've come to understand, you should not feed a really high protein diet to a puppy if it's kibble. raw is fine though. the reason high protein kibble doesn't sit well with puppies is because some claim the the ingredients are too nutritious causing the puppy to grow to quickly which often results in growth defects. it's not necessarily the protein itself, rather the quality ingredients. i learned this several other places including a previous post from Danemama08 who is a pre vet student. hopefully she can elaborate on this a bit more.


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## Orange (Jan 21, 2010)

...............


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## Khan (Jan 17, 2010)

Bump for saraj2878


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## luvMyBRT (Mar 8, 2010)

Thanks! :biggrin:

It is all beginning to make sence now! LOL.

Tomorrow I am going to go to where they sell the Chicken Soup foods and look around. I did find out that the protein max. in the large breed puppy food is 1.4% and phosphorus is 1.0%. so that's good. Protein is 27%. In my area this looks to be just about the best I can find for the price.

Thanks again!


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## SaltyDog (Mar 10, 2010)

High protein is excellant and beneficial especially if you have a large breed pup.

But let me clairify. The high protein must be meat sourced not grain sourced. Most of the puppy formulas out there have between 25% and 28% protein, but they are being sourced with both meat and grain. Take for instance Orijen Large Puppy. 40% is the protein and it is from 10 sources of meat. The meat is lean as well as is shown with only 16% fat. What is more important though is that you keep your calcium in check. 1.7% should be about the max, but you also have to figure how you "treat" them throughout the day. Are you adding even more calcium throughout the day in treats?

Your puppy can absolutely process the high meat based protein diet quite easily. It is all the grains that the digestive system has a harder time with which is why the majority of your puppy formulas have lower protein and fat percentages. The myth on high protein can be found at many reputable internet sites as well.


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## luvMyBRT (Mar 8, 2010)

Good points! I am glad that your mentioned to watch the calcium level in treats as well, as the % will add up during the day. Something I may not have thought of....
He will be going to through puppy and obedience school so I will need to find some treats that will work for training without going over the calcium limit for the day. 
Any suggestions? :smile:


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## SaltyDog (Mar 10, 2010)

Sure....I like

Evo Wild Cravings
Merrick Lamb Fillets
Merrick Beef squares

I also like cooking up some chicken breast and chopping it into smaller pieces to use for training. You can also do this with apples.


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## luvMyBRT (Mar 8, 2010)

Great! I like the chicken breast idea for training. Seems to me that it would probably be the cheapest way to go and would also be giving him more protein from a meat source.

I will also look into the other treats as well...always good to have some extra treats around the house....


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