# Hills Science Z/D



## dlegg0387 (Oct 7, 2013)

Hello All... I've done some searching on the forum to try to find alternatives for Hills Science Z/D. The vet put my dog (a rescue bulldog/hound mix-- so they say) on this after a few months of allergy problems. He would get bumps on his skin that would turn almost in to sores, then he would lose his hair, it wasnt good.. (My dog had an allergy test and only had a mild allergy to grass and weeds- its florida, who doesn't...)... He's been on Z/D for almost a year now, maybe more and only now am I realizing that it may not be that good for him, it solved/ masked the problem, but its quite expensive ($90/ bag.. 17lb i think). What sort of alternatives are there for Z/D... I'm going to read up on Raw diets but was curious if anyone had any similar experience / advice


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## Shamrockmommy (Sep 10, 2009)

Wow that's spendy !! 

You could do a raw diet, or homecooked (I like Dog Dish Diet myself, great vet!). I currently have a bichon who is allergic to grass as well and she's doing fine on PetGuard Lifespan, which is a chicken/rice food. I also make a crock pot topper of rotating meat/veggies. She's done well this way. I also have good luck occasionally trying her on Fromm 4-star grain free. 

You'll just have to try it out and see, unfortunately. 
Oh, If you can get Tuscan Natural in your area, they have a Simply Pure line which is either chicken/rice or lamb/rice. I used to recommend California Natural, which has several low-allergen formulas but they've had 2 recalls this year and not terribly sure I trust them. 

Good luck.


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## Jack Monzon (Jul 25, 2010)

dlegg0387 said:


> He's been on Z/D for almost a year now, maybe more and only now am I realizing that it may not be that good for him, it solved/ masked the problem,


Did the terrible skin problems go away on this food?


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## dlegg0387 (Oct 7, 2013)

yes, his skin has been perfect... Each time before when he "broke out" it turned in to a trip to the vet-- $$, steroid pill-- $$ and him wanting to pee a heck of a lot, it's worked that why im scared to get off of it, but if i start new things im worried about putting him through it all over again to figure out what he can eat


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## NutroGeoff (May 15, 2013)

My lab's skin and coat does really good on the Nutro Natural Choice line. There are grain free limited ingredient formulas in the line that might help. You may want to look into that.


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## Shamrockmommy (Sep 10, 2009)

Yep. Pretty much in this case you will just have to try it and see. 
I am not a fan of RX diets, HOWEVER.... if nothing else works and this one produces results, the dog is comfortable... it's a compromise I would be willing to make, honestly. 

IF you want to try something different, go for a kibble that is super simple and go from there.


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## bett (Mar 15, 2012)

if you decide on a kibble, i'd go to a single protein, and not chicken as many dogs are sensitive to chicken. that means no chicken fat, no chicken carcass.
fromm beef frittata, wellness core salmon, pinnacle salmon and sweet potato (but it has canola oil, if that offends you) .
home cooking-i'd try a white fish, over cooked broccoli, cauliflower , zucchini, yellow squash, kale, spinach, carrots, sweet potato . the sweet potato counts as a carb or a veggie. dont use all, those are the ones i would start with. i try to get organic veggies as much as possible. 
gotta stick with it and give it a chance unless of course, the dog breaks out right away.


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## Dr Dolittle (Aug 2, 2013)

Dlegg, I am happy to hear z/d has worked for your pup. I checked the suggested retail price of the 25 lb bag is $84.99. Did the math and it would cost $2.17 a day for a 40 lb dog.

You should understand what z/d is. the diet is chicken based but the protein molecules are broken down so small that the dog's immune system doesn't know it's there and there is no reaction or histamine release. (No bumps!). It's the same way baby formula protein is broken down. It is a great diagnostic tool to decide if the issue is a food allergy. Some folks will just stay on it since it is totally balanced for adult/ geriatric dogs. But you then have the option to then try other sources of protein and see how the dog does. Not sure why you think it isn't good for your dog, well, I guess I do know? veterinary diets are not formulated with the latest fads in ingredients but strictly for performance. You can't manipulate the ingredient panels like all food companies do not to get meat first, etc. There is no intact protein in z/d so the ingredients may and do look strange. The phosphorus and sodium are .50 and .27 which are really great for adults and better yet for older dogs. You didn't mention his age. The omega 6's are very high as well since derm experts(and I say that term loosely) believe allergens also come in thru the skin so high Omega 6's and 3's and high vitamin e are beneficial. The Vit e in z/d is almost 600 IU/kg which is really high. So anyway, it's a great diagnostic tool and you can surely stay on it but as others said, keep to single protein sources and give certain foods a try if you must. I wouldn't mess with success but that's your choice. the minute you see bumps, go back to z/d, clear it up, then try something else. I will say, though everyone here will disagree with me, but chances are grain free won't help. there are times a grain free diet would help. we see it. but very rare compared to a diet like z/d. For a dog to be allergic to the gluten(protein) in a grain and not be allergic to meat proteins, is extremely rare. derm cases are complicated but it is one condition where many over the counter foods might solve you problem. I of course always look at the rest of the nutrients. I don't want to ignore the dogs kidneys and heart and his risk of age related diseases. then of course food companies that make novel ingredient diets may not clean their facilities in between batches like vet manufacturers do so you can get a novel ingredient diet that is contaminated with other protein sources from the last batch. but that's a matter of quality control I suppose.

again, glued things are working for you.Not everyone has such results. And kudos to your vet for helping you out. Not all vets are nutritionally oriented. God Bless!


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## Georgiapeach (Jan 24, 2011)

Have you tried a potato free kibble? I have a westie mix who's allergic to potato (intense itching and foot chewing within 30 minutes of eating any kibble containing it). There are grain free/potato free kibbles on the market.


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## mayayoung (May 24, 2015)

sorry to break it to you, but science diet is not a good food.

you can try a food with higher protein (i don't feed it unless it is higher than 30% crude protein. If your dog has sensitive skin, you can research a food that has both high protein content and is for dogs with allergies. They say the food's first ingredient should be meat, but I say at least first two have to be meat 
MEALS. I suppose there are foods with high meat content that only have one animal ingredient, but that is just playing safe and with so many foods on the market, we can afford to be choosier. 

however, if your dog only does well on science diet, by all means continue feeding this. I would recommend supplementing with meat though, if you continue to feed this food.


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## Dr Dolittle (Aug 2, 2013)

mayayoung said:


> sorry to break it to you, but science diet is not a good food.
> 
> you can try a food with higher protein (i don't feed it unless it is higher than 30% crude protein. If your dog has sensitive skin, you can research a food that has both high protein content and is for dogs with allergies. They say the food's first ingredient should be meat, but I say at least first two have to be meat
> MEALS. I suppose there are foods with high meat content that only have one animal ingredient, but that is just playing safe and with so many foods on the market, we can afford to be choosier.
> ...


Maya, the way Z/D works is by delievering no intact proteins, whether animal or plant. Since food allergies are almost always the protein source, that is how the diet works. Sounds like it is working well for this dog for over a year. If you add meat you have totally ruined the diet. The diet is simply chicken based, but the protein molecules are so small the immune system doesn't detect them, so no response. BTW, Science Diet is an over the counter maintenance brand. Prescription Diets are very specific for managing disease. Prescription Diets re formulated to perform pretty amazing things and don't get the same marketing focus over the counter foods get....nd they have lots more research and grade 1 evidence to support their claims.


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