# Breed Recs From You Please :)



## nortknee (May 5, 2011)

I'm not exactly sure what information to put here, but it seems the more I read, the more unlikely I am to be truely happy with the first breed choice I made.

A little background: I've got a little experience with dogs, working in a shelter, training (which is something I REALLY love), and stopping pretty much anyone who was walking just to pet them/talk to them. I'm not against any breed in particular, but this will be my first dog, and obviously my first purebred dog.
In just a little over a week, I'll be moving 2,500 miles to Canada to start a life with my fiance (who's Canadian). He's a lobster fisherman, so he'll be gone quite a bit, thus this will really be MY dog.
We'll be living in a town of about 7,000 people, about 100 yards from the ocean. It DOES get cold there though (in my opinion anyway...) so that's certainly something I need to take into consideration.
Fiance is pretty easy going, carefree kind of personality. I'm kind of a perfectionist.  I like things to be clean and tidy, and I'm anal retentive when it comes to taking care of something. And probably a bit of a worrier.
We're looking for a dog thats medium PHYSICAL energy level, something that can go for a walk everyday and the beach occasionally, but doesn't HAVE to run, jump, skipededoodah every day for 3 hours or it's a bored, destructive mess.
We'd also prefer medium size, but we aren't against going bigger.
Also, I'd like a dog that's going to excel at obedience, because I really want to do advanced work with it, if possible.
As far as personality, we'd prefer it be good with kids (but protective) as there are kids in the family who are around all the time ranging in age from 1-15. I'm not sure if there are dogs that are just innately good with kids or if it's all about the socialization.

If any other information is needed, I'll be happy to provide it.
Any reccomendations will be appreciated.


----------



## meggels (May 30, 2010)

Hmm, I was thinking a whippet, but you'd have to get it a full array of fleece jammies for the cold weather lol...


----------



## nortknee (May 5, 2011)

meggels said:


> Hmm, I was thinking a whippet, but you'd have to get it a full array of fleece jammies for the cold weather lol...


Yeah, I saw someone elses rec for that...and then saw how slim/short haired they are. 
I'd feel terrible doing that to a dog...I'm all for the au natural look for dogs. (Minus some lady or boy parts, of course)


----------



## Tobi (Mar 18, 2011)

Hrm... I'm not the person to talk to i've never been around low energy dogs i've always owned very high energy animals 
BUT...Animal Planet :: Guides :: Dog Breed Selector Might be able to help you


----------



## nortknee (May 5, 2011)

Tobi said:


> Hrm... I'm not the person to talk to i've never been around low energy dogs i've always owned very high energy animals
> BUT...Animal Planet :: Guides :: Dog Breed Selector Might be able to help you


Thank you. 
I'm actually surprised by the results.

German Shepherd, Doberman Pinscher, and Black Russian Terrier (??) were all on the first page, despite me putting "mellow" as an energy requirement. I guess wanting a protective dog outweighs the other areas in that particular quiz.


----------



## werecatrising (Oct 15, 2010)

Not too sure about BRT, but shepherds and dobermans need a lot of exercise.


----------



## Little Brown Jug (Dec 7, 2010)

The breeds that I've met that don't have the "gogogogogo" way of thinking have been Bullmastiffs, Corgis, Labs, Shepherds and Collies. Now I have met a few individuals of those breeds that were like energizer bunnies but most of them have been medium energy. Content to lay around until its time for a walk and then go back to being content without having to go on an endless hike. Personally I'd just go to a shelter and do some trials. A co worker has a lovely Beagle/Lab mix who is smart as a whip and not over active at all, she can be at times but for the most part is what I would consider medium energy. Although she does have a wondering issue... darn that Beagle nose. 

I think its more of an indiviudal dog thing though more so then a breed thing. Basset's aren't supposed to be high energy dogs but I've met a few now that just don't know when to freakin stop and will tear their owner's house to shreds if they don't get, at the very least, a 2 hour walk everyday.


----------



## Tobi (Mar 18, 2011)

I agree with Littlebrownjug, you could get a corgi which are generally pretty mellow and that particular one could be a complete monster with a plethora of energy and the need to work every single day for an hour.

You may be surprised at how much you would do for an animal you absolutely adore, me personally... I don't want to go for walks or hikes, or frollicking around the yard for an hour every day, but... because i love my dog it has become more fun than the chore it first seemed.


----------



## nortknee (May 5, 2011)

Tobi said:


> You may be surprised at how much you would do for an animal you absolutely adore, me personally... I don't want to go for walks or hikes, or frollicking around the yard for an hour every day, but... because i love my dog it has become more fun than the chore it first seemed.


An hour to 1.5 hours is definitely in the cards...even for a walk. Maybe I'm over-estimating the needs of a dog? When I think "high-energy" I think jack russell terrier. A friend of mine has one, and literally 2 hours of running EVERY SINGLE DAY, and she still comes home to destroyed bedding, furniture, cabinets (the high ones) and one time, even a broken window. Maybe this is one insane case, but that's just too much for me.
I'll be home all day, so obviously the dog will be my pride and joy and more than likely spoiled rotten.  It's not an issue of 'how much time are you going to spend" because it'll be all day. It's a matter of how much PHYSICAL exercise can I personally stand in a day!


----------



## KlaMarie (Dec 30, 2010)

nortknee said:


> Thank you.
> I'm actually surprised by the results.
> 
> German Shepherd, Doberman Pinscher, and Black Russian Terrier (??) were all on the first page, despite me putting "mellow" as an energy requirement. I guess wanting a protective dog outweighs the other areas in that particular quiz.


From what I've heard, Dobermanns can be sensitive to the cold sometimes, I think they have pretty thin skin. 

A good GSD breeder will match an individual with the right dog for them. Even a working line GSD breeders will most of the time have at least one puppy out of a litter that has the personality and energy level to be an active family companion (would probably just need regular walks and outing with the family, not 3 hours of intense work). The show lines tend to be not as intense but, again, that depends on the individual dog. 

So with whatever breed you go with, be sure you do a LOT of research on the specific breeders you're considering. I searched every GSD related website I could find for information on the breeder I choose. In your situation, I would look specifically for people saying that they were asked many questions by the breeder reagarding their livestyle and activity levels, and then that they got dogs that fit their ideals and lifestyles. 

A good breeder knows the parents, their personalities, possible shortcomings, and hopefully how the progency of each dog in past litters has turned out. The breeder will also be with the litter for at least 8 weeks. During that time, they should be closely observing the pups. They should be able to tell you the differences between individual pups, and what they predict their personalities to be when they are adults. For breeds like GSDs, I would prefer a breeder who isn't just going to let you come pick whatever puppy you want out of a litter, especially if you don't have extensive experience with dogs and the specific breed. They should work with you to pick a good match for you and your family.


----------



## Celt (Dec 27, 2010)

Golden Retrievers fit most of your requirements, the protection bit not so much. In my experience they are medium energy, can deal with cold weather, easy to groom, and excel at obedience.


----------



## Tobi (Mar 18, 2011)

nortknee said:


> An hour to 1.5 hours is definitely in the cards...even for a walk. Maybe I'm over-estimating the needs of a dog? When I think "high-energy" I think jack russell terrier. A friend of mine has one, and literally 2 hours of running EVERY SINGLE DAY, and she still comes home to destroyed bedding, furniture, cabinets (the high ones) and one time, even a broken window. Maybe this is one insane case, but that's just too much for me.
> I'll be home all day, so obviously the dog will be my pride and joy and more than likely spoiled rotten.  It's not an issue of 'how much time are you going to spend" because it'll be all day. It's a matter of how much PHYSICAL exercise can I personally stand in a day!


Depending on the Drive of the dog you choose there are alot of outlets that will allow you to exert minimal physical energy for maximum expenditure on the dogs part. For me when i don't have alot of time, i'll pull out the flit pull and get him sprinting for 20-30 minutes and he's dead... if we just go for a walk it needs to be nearly 2 hours for the same result.


----------



## nortknee (May 5, 2011)

KlaMarie said:


> From what I've heard, Dobermanns can be sensitive to the cold sometimes, I think they have pretty thin skin.
> 
> A good GSD breeder will match an individual with the right dog for them. Even a working line GSD breeders will most of the time have at least one puppy out of a litter that has the personality and energy level to be an active family companion (would probably just need regular walks and outing with the family, not 3 hours of intense work). The show lines tend to be not as intense but, again, that depends on the individual dog.
> 
> ...


Thanks so much for this. 
I'm interested in GSDs based on their loyalty, intelligence and size. I'll admit though, I know nothing about "working lines" vs "show lines". How can you tell the difference? :\



Celt said:


> Golden Retrievers fit most of your requirements, the protection bit not so much. In my experience they are medium energy, can deal with cold weather, easy to groom, and excel at obedience.


Also, I would rate protective ability, at least a warning bark, as pretty high on my wants list simply because I'll be alone alot. Call me a woose. 



Tobi said:


> Depending on the Drive of the dog you choose there are alot of outlets that will allow you to exert minimal physical energy for maximum expenditure on the dogs part. For me when i don't have alot of time, i'll pull out the flit pull and get him sprinting for 20-30 minutes and he's dead... if we just go for a walk it needs to be nearly 2 hours for the same result.


Hadn't considered this as an option; will definitely look into alternative energy drains.


----------



## KittyKat (Feb 11, 2011)

nortknee said:


> Yeah, I saw someone elses rec for that...and then saw how slim/short haired they are.
> I'd feel terrible doing that to a dog...I'm all for the au natural look for dogs. (Minus some lady or boy parts, of course)


I'm not sure where out east you are going, but whippets do love the snow. Here in Ontario I took mine out every day of the winter and she had a ball. I found i was the one that wanted to go back inside, while she was too busy plowing through snow drifts like it was going out of season (also enjoyed doing a snow fox like dive into it like she was going to find something in there). They do need a coat though, I threw on a jacket and she was generally good to go...if it was really cold, i'd throw on a fleece jacket under it. Then again, them staying inside for a day doesn't make them all nutty.

It depends though, some places out east have pretty nice winters(lots of snow, but temperatures don't drop too low), others are bit nastier. The snow won't bug them, but if you are in a spot that gets a lot of days with -10 or colder temperatures, they likely won't be a fan. If you have a fireplace, they will curl up next to it like it's their best friend, and just rotate around like a rotisserie chicken.









Edit: I will say though, Whippets are.... by and large are not as good of protectors as perhaps other breeds. They generally are really quiet and don't bark, that being said... the one time Piper WILL bark/growl is if she spots something out the front window that doesn't belong (be that people or the neighbours nasty dog, nice dogs she just bounces around near the front door) which is a good thing in my mind since i KNOW somethings up. I have heard if they think you are threatened they will defend you...and are really loyal (and generally attach really strongly to one person) - but it's a whippet. Not a large dog by any means, and well... not threatening looking. Unless someone has a fear of sighthounds. If you want more hair, there is the Afghan...


----------



## nortknee (May 5, 2011)

-10F or -10C?

-10F = -23C
-10C = 14F

Either way, both happen pretty regularly in the winter.
Dear God, I'm not looking forward to that. :\


----------



## luvMyBRT (Mar 8, 2010)

<------Black Russian Terrier

BRTs are usually not the best dog for a first time dog owner. They can be a dominate breed and require an owner that has has some experience with working breed dogs. As puppies and young adults they require TONS of socializing and training. Males can weigh as much as 140 pounds. They do not shed and require grooming. However, they would have no problem with the cold......and would love it!

What about these dogs that do good in the cold:
Bernese Mountain dog
Newfoundland
Greater Swiss Mountain dog
Golden Retriever
Saint Bernard


----------



## KlaMarie (Dec 30, 2010)

nortknee said:


> Thanks so much for this.
> I'm interested in GSDs based on their loyalty, intelligence and size. I'll admit though, I know nothing about "working lines" vs "show lines". How can you tell the difference? :\


Just by physical appearance:

This is typical American Show Line









German Show Line - noticable difference in top-line and richness of color from American, and rarely come in any other color but red + black









German Working Line - any and all color patterns, most commonly sable (dominant color)


















There is also considerable difference in temperament, in general. This is a good page that explains general differences in temperament and has pics: (Types of German Shepherds, by Wildhaus Kennels )

And here's another site comparing types (this one also gets a little bit into the different working lines)
http://www.shawlein.com/The_Standard/13_Breed_Type/Breed_Types.html

Note: I did NOT make the working line pics bigger on purpose, I'm just too lazy to change the size. No bias here!!! :wink:


----------



## nortknee (May 5, 2011)

luvMyBRT said:


> <------Black Russian Terrier
> 
> BRTs are usually not the best dog for a first time dog owner. They can be a dominate breed and require an owner that has has some experience with working breed dogs. As puppies and young adults they require TONS of socializing and training. Males can weigh as much as 140 pounds. They do not shed and require grooming. However, they would have no problem with the cold......and would love it!
> 
> ...


Bernese would be nice, if it's median lifespan was longer than 6 years. :\ That'd be tough.
I would be fine with a Newf, fiance wouldn't. Too big, in his opinion. In my opinion, just the right size to ward off potential burglars. Also, the drool is kind of a turn-off for a neat freak like me.
Same for St. Bernard.
Greater Swiss haven't looked at. Will now. 
Golden Retriever doesn't have the protectiveness I'm looking for, or it'd certainly be a contender.

I DO have experience with Airedales, though, so I can totally understand the dominant side of things.
Winston can be EXTREMELY stubborn, but it's rare (in fact, maybe once) that I give up with him, and it didn't take him long to realize that. Now, he pretty much does what I ask on command, as long as there isn't a more pressing matter at the time. I will say, he listens to me more than he listens to his primary owners, but I think that's all about how much actual time (working hours) you've spent with a dog that's deemed "dominant". Personal opinion.


----------



## KittyKat (Feb 11, 2011)

nortknee said:


> -10F or -10C?
> 
> -10F = -23C
> -10C = 14F
> ...


-10C, which now that i think about it, was pretty common here this winter... but usually doesn't get too much colder on a regular basis. It's the wind that kills me (bitter bitter winds). We had a few days of -14, but nothing colder during the day.


----------



## nortknee (May 5, 2011)

KlaMarie said:


> Just by physical appearance:
> 
> This is typical American Show Line
> German Show Line - noticable difference in top-line and richness of color from American, and rarely come in any other color but red + black
> ...


Thanks.
This may be a stupid question, but why the hell do the "show lines" look like they've got frog legs?
That CAN'T be the way the breed first started...can it?

Reading the site now.


----------



## 1605 (May 27, 2009)

For "medium" sized dog might you consider a border collie or shetland sheepdog (sheltie)?


----------



## nortknee (May 5, 2011)

KittyKat said:


> -10C, which now that i think about it, was pretty common here this winter... but usually doesn't get too much colder on a regular basis. It's the wind that kills me (bitter bitter winds). We had a few days of -14, but nothing colder during the day.


There were quite a few days that it was -30C. About 6 months out of the year it averages lows below freezing.
And yes. The Canadian wind SUCKS. Someone told me that being on the ocean is great. That person lied. They've never been on the Atlantic ocean in Canada in the winter. BRRR!


----------



## luvMyBRT (Mar 8, 2010)

I was reading up again on the Greater Swiss Mountain dog. It seems like they might be a good fit....as they would do great in the cold and they are alert, vigilant, and make good watch dogs.


----------



## KlaMarie (Dec 30, 2010)

nortknee said:


> Thanks.
> This may be a stupid question, but why the hell do the "show lines" look like they've got frog legs?
> That CAN'T be the way the breed first started...can it?
> 
> Reading the site now.


From what I understand, it's for the movement. When Shepherds are in a show, they have to do a very specific "trot" type movement when running for the judge. The slope of the top line enhances this trotting motion, so I'm told. 

"Flying Trot"


----------



## KlaMarie (Dec 30, 2010)

luvMyBRT said:


> I was reading up again on the Greater Swiss Mountain dog. It seems like they might be a good fit....as they would do great in the cold and they are alert, vigilant, and make good watch dogs.


Those are such sweet dogs!!! They are definately beautiful, I don't know if they would be what I consider medium sized though. But then some GSD showlines aren't really medium sized either


----------



## KittyKat (Feb 11, 2011)

nortknee said:


> There were quite a few days that it was -30C. About 6 months out of the year it averages lows below freezing.
> And yes. The Canadian wind SUCKS. Someone told me that being on the ocean is great. That person lied. They've never been on the Atlantic ocean in Canada in the winter. BRRR!



Lol! It really depends on where in atlantic canada you are. Some spots are not too bad, but generally they get a lot of snow dumped on them. 

We have had winters with -30 during the day, but not in the last few years... i think i'd stay inside during those cold days. 

In Onatrio i'd say... 4 months average below freezing. The Annapolis Valley in Novia Scotia isn't too bad during the Winter. This past winter was brutal out there though.

A Chilly Dog coat tends to solve the issues with the cold though.

Edit: If you like Swiss Mountain dogs, but don't want a large dog, check out the Entlebucher Mountain Dog, it's a smaller version.... there's also the Appenzeller Sennenhund, which is a bit bigger. My whippet adores those kinds of dogs (no idea why...).


----------



## nortknee (May 5, 2011)

KlaMarie said:


> Those are such sweet dogs!!! They are definately beautiful, I don't know if they would be what I consider medium sized though. But then some GSD showlines aren't really medium sized either


Haaa. Yeah. Up to 140lbs. That is certainly extra-large. But everything else is a really great fit.


----------



## Little Brown Jug (Dec 7, 2010)

Living by the ocean is great. I wouldn't have it any other way. Its beautiful, however... in the winter when the wind comes off the water, it almost cuts you open its so cold. Brrrr.


----------



## luvMyBRT (Mar 8, 2010)

Greater Swiss only get to be about 110, on average. But, yes, I am sure they could be bigger, especially if you get a male.

What about the Norwegian Elkhound?

"The Norwegian Elkhound is a medium breed of dog that weighs between 45 and 55 pounds. It is bold and energetic, an effective guardian yet normally friendly, with great dignity and independence of character. An Elkhound can be protective, even possessive, of his human family and his property making him a commendable watch dog. His bear-like look, deep resounding bark, and large white teeth can discourage most unwanted visitors."


----------



## dmgmn (Apr 24, 2011)

SubMariner said:


> For "medium" sized dog might you consider a border collie or shetland sheepdog (sheltie)?


Border Collie was first to come to mind as well, GSD maybe?? Australian Shephard?? or even a Mini Aussie? (yea i'm biased)

Dunno about the Sheltie tho, ours have always been more lapdogs than anything!

OMG, there's so many to choose from!! LOL


----------



## nortknee (May 5, 2011)

luvMyBRT said:


> Greater Swiss only get to be about 110, on average. But, yes, I am sure they "could" be bigger.
> 
> What about the Norwegian Elkhound?
> 
> "The Norwegian Elkhound is a medium breed of dog that weighs between 45 and 55 pounds. It is bold and energetic, an effective guardian yet normally friendly, with great dignity and independence of character. An Elkhound can be protective, even possessive, of his human family and his property making him a commendable watch dog. His bear-like look, deep resounding bark, and large white teeth can discourage most unwanted visitors."


I think you've just hit the nail on the head. 
Now, for research...


----------



## nortknee (May 5, 2011)

dmgmn said:


> Border Collie was first to come to mind as well, GSD maybe?? Australian Shephard?? or even a Mini Aussie? (yea i'm biased) Dunno about the Sheltie tho
> 
> OMG, there's so many to choose from!! LOL


Fiance's first dog was a border collie. He loved it, but I think he's still a little heart-broken from it's death. He get teary-eyed anytime he talks about her.


----------



## grissom_mom (Sep 27, 2010)

They are really rare here, but I think there are more of them in Canada. 
Eurasier
Eurasier - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I petsit one twice weekly and he is the most wonderful larger fluff dog I've ever had the pleasure of knowing. 







So sweet, so loyal, so handsome, so cuddly. He isn't much for protection but he's been well socialized and his parents have trained him not to bark at anything; from what I know of the breed they are reserved towards strangers so I think encouraging the alert barks would not be hard but they are friendly smart dogs so he wouldn't take it from alert to "Never make friends with new people."


----------



## Savage Destiny (Mar 16, 2011)

Norwegian Elkhounds are great, but you need to prepare yourself for... 

HAIR. HAIR EVERYWHERE. 

Elkhounds are one of the WORST shedding breeds. This is particularly fresh for me because I just groomed one today, lol. I brushed him for a half hour, blew out clouds of hair with the dryer *three times* and still had to brush him for another half hour afterwards. The entire dog was was covered in his hair. I did him four weeks ago. He sheds that bad every four weeks. Every Elkhound I've ever groomed has been like that too, lol. 

They do tend towards stubbornness and independence as well, just like the other Northern breeds. 

I did think Whippet immediately when I was reading your first post. I know you're not keen on "dressing dogs up", but you don't have to go all foo-foo. My bald little Pit Bull does great in our freezing winter temperatures with some boots and a sturdy jacket.

Edited because apparently I can't make up my mind to use bold or italics. :tongue:


----------



## Esori (May 7, 2011)

nortknee said:


> Thanks.
> This may be a stupid question, but why the hell do the "show lines" look like they've got frog legs?
> That CAN'T be the way the breed first started...can it?
> 
> Reading the site now.


No, it's not. Actually, as much as I love GSDs, I can't stand the American show lines (or the German Show lines for that matter) They all used to look a LOT like the eastern german working lines (ie: what she posted as german working lines) but then people started to overly obsess on the dog's gait in the show ring. 

Posting this from the 2nd page, hopefully I'm not rehashing something that was already said =/


----------



## chowder (Sep 7, 2008)

No one in their right mind would ever suggest a Chow to a first time dog owner ......BUT my first dog was a Lhasa and my second was a Chow and I survived :biggrin: And Chows fit a lot of your description. I know they are perfect for me :tongue:

Advantages : 
They are BORN neat freak dogs.....they come housebroken as puppies, only use one hidden spot of the yard to do their business (in complete privacy please!),
They don't chew, you won't have any destruction from puppy teeth. 
They don't need any exercise at all but are perfectly willing to go on long walks with you as long as its COLD out (snow is even better).....if its hot at all (we're talking over 70 degrees) they will not move from the air conditioner vent. All of mine have loved water and pools. I haven't tried any beaches or lakes with them. 
They may be stubborn but are extremely smart....I've trained two of them in agility and they were both the tops in their class. Both advanced well before the other pups. They are not real fast though, so may not win any agility titles where speed is a factor. 
Great with children.....I raised both my boys and all their friends with chows...you just have to introduce them while they are young. The two little boys down our street love to run out and throw their arms around Rocky's neck (something he would NEVER let an adult do)

Cons:

Twice a year you will have furballs everywhere. But you can use a rake and get a lot of the undercoat out before it's all over the house
They will bond to the family in the extreme and usually more so to one person, and can be very protective of that home. You have to socialize them all the time (and don't worry, they won't get TOO friendly from too much socializing)
Some insurance companies will not insure you if you own them. I actually had to change insurance companies once. 

Just a thought for a 'different' breed.


----------



## KlaMarie (Dec 30, 2010)

Esori said:


> No, it's not. Actually, as much as I love GSDs, I can't stand the American show lines (or the German Show lines for that matter) They all used to look a LOT like the eastern german working lines (ie: what she posted as german working lines) but then people started to overly obsess on the dog's gait in the show ring.


Actually the dogs in the pics I posted under "German working lines" are all West German dogs. The first pic, he is a pretty dark sable, which makes it harder to tell the difference. 

Ya know, the East German (DDR) working lines can sometimes be the happy medium between the higher energy of the West German working lines and more laid back personality the German show lines. The DDR dogs take forever to mature, and their drives are usually much less intense, but you still get a working dog personality and structure. Not to mention that the DDR black sables are absolutely GORGEOUS!!! (see below)

Aron vom Poppitz of Vom Banach K9


----------



## nortknee (May 5, 2011)

KlaMarie said:


> Actually the dogs in the pics I posted under "German working lines" are all West German dogs. The first pic, he is a pretty dark sable, which makes it harder to tell the difference.
> 
> Ya know, the East German (DDR) working lines can sometimes be the happy medium between the higher energy of the West German working lines and more laid back personality the German show lines. The DDR dogs take forever to mature, and their drives are usually much less intense, but you still get a working dog personality and structure. Not to mention that the DDR black sables are absolutely GORGEOUS!!! (see below)
> 
> Aron vom Poppitz of Vom Banach K9


Wow! Beautiful. I actually prefer the sable coloring to the black and tan. 
It's like a fur kaleidoscope!
What does DDR mean, exactly?


----------



## KlaMarie (Dec 30, 2010)

nortknee said:


> What does DDR mean, exactly?


It's a German name, Deutsche Demokratische Republik. In the GSD world, it's the specific working lines that developed on the East side of the Berlin wall after the war, in the DDR. From what I've read, on the East german side, there wasn't the huge division between the working GSDs and the showlines. They mananged to create a middle ground type of dog, that could compete in the show ring for confirmation, but also had the drives needed to work Schutzhund and do border patrol. Some of these dogs are VERY intense, and tend toward more civil aggression than is ideal for some people. 

On the west side of Germany, they developed distrinct working and showlines. So those lines are West German working, and then West German show lines. The West German working lines, in general, mature much faster the the DDR dogs. They also have more pronounced prey drives, which means it's easier to get them to play the game of bitework. DDR dogs don't play games, they bite and fight the man behind the suite. 

And then you have Czech lines on top of that, which are sort of similar to East German dogs, but have differences of their own.


----------



## nortknee (May 5, 2011)

KlaMarie said:


> It's a German name, Deutsche Demokratische Republik. In the GSD world, it's the specific working lines that developed on the East side of the Berlin wall after the war, in the DDR. From what I've read, on the East german side, there wasn't the huge division between the working GSDs and the showlines. They mananged to create a middle ground type of dog, that could compete in the show ring for confirmation, but also had the drives needed to work Schutzhund and do border patrol. Some of these dogs are VERY intense, and tend toward more civil aggression than is ideal for some people.
> 
> On the west side of Germany, they developed distrinct working and showlines. So those lines are West German working, and then West German show lines. The West German working lines, in general, mature much faster the the DDR dogs. They also have more pronounced prey drives, which means it's easier to get them to play the game of bitework. DDR dogs don't play games, they bite and fight the man behind the suite.
> 
> And then you have Czech lines on top of that, which are sort of similar to East German dogs, but have differences of their own.


The "civil aggression" part and their slow maturity makes me think these are the types of dogs that are more suited to being K9 units...?
I'm really not even considering showlines based on the crouched/broken looking legs I keep seeing (I can't justify contributing to that sort of breeding practice :\)...but I certainly don't want a high-drive nutcase who won't settle down.


----------



## KlaMarie (Dec 30, 2010)

nortknee said:


> The "civil aggression" part and their slow maturity makes me think these are the types of dogs that are more suited to being K9 units...?
> I'm really not even considering showlines based on the crouched/broken looking legs I keep seeing (I can't justify contributing to that sort of breeding practice :\)...but I certainly don't want a high-drive nutcase who won't settle down.


Eh, not neccessarily. From what I've seen (which is limited), K9 units like the Czech and West German dogs better. It just takes too long for the DDR dogs to reach maturity (at least 1 1/2 to 2 years), which means delaying certain stages of training that involve pressure and defense drives, which means more money spent to keep and feed the dog while he is not actively working. K9 units like the maniacs anyway, the want the dogs with crazy drive, which is not DDR dogs. The West German dogs can have degrees of civil aggression also, but it is easier to get them to focus on prey items (the sleeve). The DDR dogs can be much quicker to bite a man without a sleeve, but the police k9s (whether West or East German) all learn to bite without a sleeve present. 

It's acutally more common now to see dogs that are advertized as "DDR/East German", as dogs that have gradually had their drives watered down, due to increased demand for the "black sable dog" in the pet dog market. People want the unique color, but they don't want the drive. So breeders will breed for color, try to mellow the dog out, and forgo the SchH titles. Which can work sometimes,and give you a working dog structure with less drive. But then can possibly also lead to other problems with nerve. Then you can get a dog who is naturally suspicious (left over from older lines), but does not have the natural confidence and attitude to achieve balance, and then it can get tricky.


----------



## FL Cracker (May 4, 2011)

Here are a few more quiz related links to narrow down "what breed is right for you"...we used three or four of them...and then looked for the breed that came up on every test. We finally settled on a Corgi, and he has suited us well for the past 10 years....they are quite characters...good luck on your search.
Breed Selector, Dog Search, Puppy Survey, Puppy Test, Test to find the right dog, Breed Quiz
Animal Planet :: Guides :: Dog Breed Selector
Choosing Dog Breed Quiz, A Quiz For Choosing Dog, Choosing The Right Dog Breed


----------



## nortknee (May 5, 2011)

KlaMarie said:


> Eh, not neccessarily. From what I've seen (which is limited), K9 units like the Czech and West German dogs better. It just takes too long for the DDR dogs to reach maturity (at least 1 1/2 to 2 years), which means delaying certain stages of training that involve pressure and defense drives, which means more money spent to keep and feed the dog while he is not actively working. K9 units like the maniacs anyway, the want the dogs with crazy drive, which is not DDR dogs. The West German dogs can have degrees of civil aggression also, but it is easier to get them to focus on prey items (the sleeve). The DDR dogs can be much quicker to bite a man without a sleeve, but the police k9s (whether West or East German) all learn to bite without a sleeve present.
> 
> It's acutally more common now to see dogs that are advertized as "DDR/East German", as dogs that have gradually had their drives watered down, due to increased demand for the "black sable dog" in the pet dog market. People want the unique color, but they don't want the drive. So breeders will breed for color, try to mellow the dog out, and forgo the SchH titles. Which can work sometimes,and give you a working dog structure with less drive. But then can possibly also lead to other problems with nerve. Then you can get a dog who is naturally suspicious (left over from older lines), but does not have the natural confidence and attitude to achieve balance, and then it can get tricky.


That certainly makes sense. The variation between Winston (Airedale) and another airedale at the dog park is pretty severe...but the other dog came from a puppymill/BYB situation. Winston came from a breeder who specifically bred for the strong personality that an Airedale should have (her father had one in the police force in Britain, so I think she was trying to keep the integrity of that sort of Airedale). Winston's confidence is sometimes one of the attributes makes him challenging, so I can only imagine the definitive difference it makes for a breed like the GSD.


----------



## rannmiller (Jun 27, 2008)

I love the Eurasier that Grissom's mom pet sits! He is a very smart, gorgeous fluff ball!

I'd also recommend a rough collie or a samoyed. Both very sweet, mellow, intelligent, beautiful dogs as well.


----------



## KittyKat (Feb 11, 2011)

I looked up Euraisers before I got my whippet, but the issue was getting one. There are very few breeders for it, and there isn't really any breed promotion that I can see... so the numbers aren't really going up. 

I will say though, if you get a whippet.... they are like chips, you can't just have one. *grins*

I already want another one...


----------



## nortknee (May 5, 2011)

KittyKat said:


> I looked up Euraisers before I got my whippet, but the issue was getting one. There are very few breeders for it, and there isn't really any breed promotion that I can see... so the numbers aren't really going up.
> 
> I will say though, if you get a whippet.... they are like chips, you can't just have one. *grins*
> 
> I already want another one...


I think that's the consensus on ANY dog you get! 
You can't have just one!


----------

