# Are there any right answers?



## Dojo (Jan 25, 2010)

What I mean by the title is that I hear 1000 different things about dog food ingredients, formulas, by-products etc. Is anything 100% concrete and true? I work at a national chain petstore, and all of my dog nutrition training that I do, I take it with a grain of salt. Some of it is factual (or at least seems to be), but I know that the pet store is going to slant it to seem like the lower brands aren't as bad as they are. I always talk to the various reps that we have in (Nutro, Science Diet and some others) and I like to hear what they say about their food. I am hearing a lot of different things on here that contradict what other people say. I like to learn about dog food, and I like helping customers with their dog food questions, but I just don't know how accurate any of the information is that I know. I know the raw feeders on this site are going to push the raw diet (which isn't an option for me and a lot of the customers that I get). I am just overwhelmed by the amount of information and want to make sure that I give the right answers for people.


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## Dojo (Jan 25, 2010)

I also apologize if this is in the wrong section. I am referring to kibble and canned food so I figured this would be the right place for it.


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5 (Feb 11, 2010)

yes there is one answer to dog food. science doesnt lie.

byproducts,corn,gluten,fillers(tomato pomace,beet pulp) grains, un named meat products, low meat content or proteins are all unadvised.

unfortunately even the best kibbles have atleast one of those things i nthem(tomato pomace for example is in the top kibblers)

innova evo has useless potatoes,peas and carrots..


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## spookychick13 (Jan 26, 2010)

In all honestly, what is right is whatever is right for the individual dog.


I saw a dog come in to our clinic with perfect teeth, an amazing coat and bright eyes, she was the perfect weight as well. Her owners fed her Iams plain adult formula. Is that a good food? NO. Did the dog do well on it? YES!

When my dogs were on kibble, they did pretty well on Orijen!
I'd say try to steer them towards the higher quality grain free foods, in all honesty.


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

Dojo said:


> Is anything 100% concrete and true?


The honest answer: no, not really. 
There is no such thing as a species appropriate commercial dog food, so it's all a game of what you can get away with for each individual dog. Not all dog foods are created equally, obviously, so some are far better than others.



Dojo said:


> I always talk to the various reps that we have in (Nutro, Science Diet and some others) and I like to hear what they say about their food.


One thing to always remember is when you're looking for honest facts, you're probably not going to hear them from someone trying to sell you something, especially when they're trying to sell a low or mid grade food, like nutro and sd. 



Dojo said:


> I am hearing a lot of different things on here that contradict what other people say.


That's because dog food is generally a matter of personal experience, and opinion... very little facts involved. For example, on paper, EVO is a great kibble. It has high meat content, good protein level, decent ingredients, and is made by a reliable company. However, none of my dogs could handle the richness of it, so it did me no good. 




Dojo said:


> I know the raw feeders on this site are going to push the raw diet


Don't assume. Give us a chance. Every single raw feeder on here has given solid kibble advice without mentioning raw on many occasions.


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## kevin bradley (Aug 9, 2009)

the irony of this post is that the OP asked if there was "anything concrete." 

...and the immediate response said YES, there is...and his post itself had a littany of debatable issues. Even the corn topic is up for debate. Go out to the Dog Food Project and she talks about how Corn, GOOD corn can be a nice added grain. Heck, I don't know. Another one is Beat Pulp. She mentions how Beat Pulp can be a nice source of fiber in food but is now maligned by many "reviewers." 

I'm not saying who's right. Heck, I don't know. Diamond foods is another one....they have the best prices from what I've seen, hands down. But they also draw tons of fire for past issues. 

I've found the more you research, the more confused you will get...about the only consensus I've found is that Purina, Pedigree and most of the grocery store brands are garbage. 

Well, come to think of it...you even get some debating those. 

Good luck.


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## Dojo (Jan 25, 2010)

kevin bradley said:


> the irony of this post is that the OP asked if there was "anything concrete."
> 
> ...and the immediate response said YES, there is...and his post itself had a littany of debatable issues. Even the corn topic is up for debate. Go out to the Dog Food Project and she talks about how Corn, GOOD corn can be a nice added grain. Heck, I don't know. Another one is Beat Pulp. She mentions how Beat Pulp can be a nice source of fiber in food but is now maligned by many "reviewers."
> 
> ...


I know that a lot of the ingredients are hot topics of debate. That's why I mentioned the by-products and fillers. I doing my research to learn more about them and hearing all the debate about them has me wondering. I am just looking for accurate information to pass on to customers. I like learning about this ingredients and want to make sure I pass on reliable information.


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## Dojo (Jan 25, 2010)

CorgiPaws said:


> One thing to always remember is when you're looking for honest facts, you're probably not going to hear them from someone trying to sell you something, especially when they're trying to sell a low or mid grade food, like nutro and sd.



The reason I brought up the reps is that I know that they are going to push their food. That is what they are getting paid to do. I ask them about their food because I like to hear what they say about the by-products, fillers and lower quality ingredients. I know how I personally feel about those ingredients as well as the general opinion on here, so it's interesting to hear the reps try to make the ingredients sound good.


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## JayJayisme (Aug 2, 2009)

Remember, there are few, if any, ACCURATE impartial scientific studies on canine nutrition. The reason all the anecdotes you read and hear are confusing is because they are meant to be confusing. The more confused consumers are, the easier it is for the commercial dog food manufacturers to manipulate them with their version of the "facts".

Ever heard the saying, "If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bulls#!t"? This seems to be the mantra of the commercial pet food industry.

I suggest you read this thread, particularly starting on page 9. It won't give you the answer you seek, but it will give you a clue as to why the answer doesn't exist.

http://dogfoodchat.com/forum/dog-food-ingredients/2329-backed-scientific-study.html

Jay


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## Dojo (Jan 25, 2010)

JayJayisme said:


> Remember, there are few, if any, ACCURATE impartial scientific studies on canine nutrition. The reason all the anecdotes you read and hear are confusing is because they are meant to be confusing. The more confused consumers are, the easier it is for the commercial dog food manufacturers to manipulate them with their version of the "facts".
> 
> Ever heard the saying, "If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bulls#!t"? This seems to be the mantra of the commercial pet food industry.
> 
> ...


Thanks for this, I am going to be reading for a while! I just remembered something else. My "training" had a section about customers wanting to prepare their own dog food. The training said that customers shouldn't prepare their own food because it won't provide consistent levels of nutrition. I think this forum proves otherwise!


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## Jem (Dec 17, 2009)

Dogs are carnivores, so obviously foods that advertise for "whole grains" and "nutritious vegetables" aren't going to do much good. In a kibble, I would look for high protein content and as little of all the other "stuff" as you can find. But like people have said, really high protein kibble is sometimes too rich for some dogs. If you are going to feed something like Iams, Science Diet, Nutro, etc. in my book, those are all equally the same. It is hard to tell people what is a good food for their dogs when you work at a place that sells a wide range of foods. I would push for grain-free if your store sells that. 

Like the others have said, there have been numerous dogs who have lived long "healthy" lives on purina or whatever. (not necessarily the optimum health, and they probably needed annual dentals etc. but generally healthy.)


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## Jem (Dec 17, 2009)

Dojo said:


> Thanks for this, I am going to be reading for a while! I just remembered something else. My "training" had a section about customers wanting to prepare their own dog food. The training said that customers shouldn't prepare their own food because it won't provide consistent levels of nutrition. I think this forum proves otherwise!


You do have to be very careful about homemade diets. If someone is going to make a homemade diet they are usually talking about cooked rice, meat, and veggies (not usually referring to raw w/ bones + organs) they need to make sure they do include every nutrient that the dog needs. There are recipes, but most involve using cooked rice, veggies, hamburger, etc. Rice and veggies aren't appropriate for dogs, and cooked meat, well isn't natural. I work at a vet clinic and we have a client who makes home-cooked meals for her dog, but wasn't keeping it completely balanced...the dog started losing hair and showing other deficiencies. Most home cooked meals need other supplements added in for it to be balanced. If you are referring to prey model raw diets (meat, bones, and organs), then yes, they do have all the nutrients that the dog needs.


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## Dojo (Jan 25, 2010)

Jem said:


> You do have to be very careful about homemade diets. If someone is going to make a homemade diet they are usually talking about cooked rice, meat, and veggies (not usually referring to raw w/ bones + organs) they need to make sure they do include every nutrient that the dog needs. There are recipes, but most involve using cooked rice, veggies, hamburger, etc. Rice and veggies aren't appropriate for dogs, and cooked meat, well isn't natural. I work at a vet clinic and we have a client who makes home-cooked meals for her dog, but wasn't keeping it completely balanced...the dog started losing hair and showing other deficiencies. Most home cooked meals need other supplements added in for it to be balanced. If you are referring to prey model raw diets (meat, bones, and organs), then yes, they do have all the nutrients that the dog needs.


This is extremely helpful, thanks!


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## Jem (Dec 17, 2009)

not a problem. glad I could help!


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