# Yellow. Grainy?



## oakley (Nov 18, 2009)

:redfaceoop. Oakley has been on raw since last Friday. She had a bright yellow soft.. mucousy.. poo this morning... in the last 24 hours she has had... yesterday morning: venison muscle cut with egg, lunch: goose leg (didnt eat bone), dinner: goose leg (ate half bone). This morning she had a very fatty chicken back.

It looked really strange.. so just thought I would ask. You guys probably think I'm obcessed with poop! :redface:


But to me its just a good indicator of whats going on in there...  and this doesnt look very good?

*********************UPDATE BELOW


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## oakley (Nov 18, 2009)

Wanted to add, she also had a spoonfulof non fat plain yogurt, but she gets that daily.

Shes acting completely normal.


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

Beginning raw feeders pretty quickly become dog poop experts. :smile: Yellow poop is indicative of chicken. I haven't fed any duck but I would guess poop from duck meals would be similar to poop from chicken meals. I would think venison this early in the diet would contribute to softish poop. It could have easily caused cannon butt. I think you came out pretty good in feeding venison. I can't remember how old Oakley is but she must be pretty young. Puppies tend to adapt to real food faster than older dogs. Probably because she has had kibble for a shorter period of time.

Fat can cause soft stools but usually the bones in the back cancel out the tendency for soft stools caused by fat. Fat has less of a tendency to cause soft stools after the dog has been eating real food for a month or so.

All appears ok to me. You will soon know which foods cause what kind of poops. :smile:

Poop is a good indicator of how the diet is going and whether you need to increase or decrease bones or organs. However, in about 6 months or so you won't hardly notice poops anymore. You will just know from experience that she is getting the right mixture of foods.


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## oakley (Nov 18, 2009)

Shes actually had venison all week... at least one meal. Hasn't had much of an impact. Before I made the 100% switch she had had meals of chicken and goose too. I know its supposed to be a slower introduction.. opps. 


Actually, doing a google search- it is one of the symptoms of parvo. So now I'm a little freaked out. But she seems fine otherwise.. so.. ??


She is 14lbs and was 13 weeks old on Monday. She has had 2 full sets of shots and is due for one more on the 4th.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

oakley said:


> Shes actually had venison all week... at least one meal. Hasn't had much of an impact. Before I made the 100% switch she had had meals of chicken and goose too. I know its supposed to be a slower introduction.. opps.
> 
> 
> Actually, doing a google search- it is one of the symptoms of parvo. So now I'm a little freaked out. But she seems fine otherwise.. so.. ??
> ...



I wouldn't worry about parvo with her. Her immunity is still a bit comprimised but she should be protected to the point where she shouldn't contract the disease. That is why boosters are giving on a regimen, if not their immunity would decrease over time. The last booster should be given at 4 months along with a Rabies shot. That is the point in their life that immunity lasts thru adulthood. I would still booster a year later for both, but then go on a limited vaccination cycle after that. Rabies vaccine has been tested to be good for 7 years, if not longer. Everyone has their own opinions on vaccinations and how often they should be given...this is just my own.

I totally think that the poo you are seeing is from what you have been feeding her. 

If you want her stool to firm up feed her more chicken backs, which has the bone to do so.

Poo is a good indicator of how their bodies are working internally, but remember that you in the process of switching to a new diet, if not a new lifestyle for your dog. It will take some time for her to get used to it. Diarrhea is a normal bodily function, but unless it is severe (completely watery...ie cannon butt LOL) and lasts for several days in a row and doesn't get better with adding more bone, there is no need to worry at all :biggrin:


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

Sounds like it was the eggs to me, sometimes if I give the dogs eggs their poop comes out looking slimey and gooey.


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

Like I said, puppies adapt to a raw diet A LOT quicker than adults. Some say that there is no need for gradual introduction of new foods for a puppy.

If she had parvo, you would know it. There would be vomiting and severe diarrhea as well as the dog being very listless.

Natalie: This is a subject for another thread if you want to persue it but booster shots don't really boost anything. You give a series of vaccinations for reasons that have to do with mother's immunity still being in the puppy's body for an undertermined period of time. If you knew the exact moment the mother's immunity was no longer in the puppy's body, one vaccination is all that's needed.

ETA: And your right the last of the puppy shot series should be given at or after 16 weeks of age.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Ok...started new thread in the Health forum :biggrin:


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## oakley (Nov 18, 2009)

*Ugh.*

So last night she had a pudding poo. Now its almost 2am here and she just woke me up in a panic... and she never wakes up in the night. We go outside and she explodes... cannon butt. Yellowish brown the stinkiest thing I've ever smelt... :frown:

And that.. wouldn't have been so bad but then she just kept straining and straining... and nothing was coming out. So she gets cold and give up and wanted back inside... we get two steps in the door and she runs back out to strain and a little more cannon butt then strain and strain. We start going back in again after 10 mins... and have to go back outside again. 

Now I'm sitting in the kitchen waiting for her to have to go again and worrying. 


This is freaking me out a bit. My uncle is a vet and all day T-day he was telling me she was going to get a bone stuck in her bowels.. :frown: hes old school and not open to learning anything new so I ignored him. 

But she just keeps straining! I feel so bad for her right now. :frown: What if somethings wrong?


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## oakley (Nov 18, 2009)

I am thinking of feeding her rice to get her a bit solid-er and get her tum settled down. Is that a sin in the life of raw? I'm so worried and scared. :frown:

I feel like giving up and buying a bag of dog food tomorrow.


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

oakley said:


> I am thinking of feeding her rice to get her a bit solid-er and get her tum settled down. Is that a sin in the life of raw? I'm so worried and scared. :frown:
> 
> I feel like giving up and buying a bag of dog food tomorrow.


Calm down. :smile: It's not the end of the world. Let's go back and start over again. Let her miss a meal then stick with only chicken backs, wings, or necks for a week. Rice will not get her more solid ... bones will. These parts are very boney. Remove the excess fat from the backs. Be sure not to overfeed her. 2% of her expected adult weight/day. 

Next week add some meatier pieces of chicken like quarters or bone in breast or even boneless breast. The next week add turkey to the diet. Check out my web page in my sig and it will guide you on how to feed her. 

If you have more questions, please ask. Keep us posted on her progress.


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## BGBY (Sep 22, 2009)

Don't give up just yet! Stick with the chicken for a few weeks. :smile:


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## claybuster (Dec 18, 2008)

I'd give up if I were you. Listen to these folks here you'll be lucky you dog doesn't end up at the emergency vet.


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## rawfeederr (Sep 9, 2009)

claybuster said:


> I'd give up if I were you. Listen to these folks here you'll be lucky you dog doesn't end up at the emergency vet.


Wow..
They are just trying to help. 
There is absolutely nothing wrong with raw feeding!! Sheesh..


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

rawfeederr said:


> They are just trying to help. There is absolutely nothing wrong with raw feeding!! Sheesh..
> 
> You gotta know Claybuster. He would love to feed raw. He knows its the optimum way to feed a dog but he's a bone phobic and can't bring himself to do it. :smile:


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## oakley (Nov 18, 2009)

Well. We are doing better. 

I actually gave her 2 tablespoons of cooked rice at 8am yesterday morning, because if I completely fasted her.. she'd be puking all day. That held her over... maybe not the optimum choice or the right choice, but it worked for us. 

Then I was waiting and waiting waiting for a poop.. didn't want to feed her until we got a poo... but she hadn't pooped by 5 last night, and she was happy go lucky Oaky but hungry. So I fed her a trimmed up chicken back. She happily ate it. She didn't have a bowel movement until midnight. But I was so happy to see her pass something that didn't involve cannon butt! This morning she had a solid poop. And a chix back for breakfast. And another for lunch around 3 pm...debating if one more at dinner will be too much for the day. I'm going to go weigh the ones I have in the fridge and see what they come in at. I trimmed the fat off of them already.. as there was a TON of fat on them and I dont think that was helping. 

Thanks for all of your help and patience as I find my way...


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

oakley said:


> Well. We are doing better.


Thats great, but I'm not surprised. 



> And a chix back for breakfast. And another for lunch around 3 pm...debating if one more at dinner will be too much for the day.


Unless you expect her ideal adult weight to be more than 60 lbs, don't feed anymore today. You have reached her daily limit. Remember that you should be feeding something around 2% of her ideal adult weight. For a small dog, thats not much food but it is all thats needed or desired. A 60lb dog (I picked that number at random) should get a little over a pound a day of food.


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## oakley (Nov 18, 2009)

Just backs seemed like too much bone- her stools were too hard/powdery. So I added in quarters as of yesterday. But yesterday morning we had some weird poos. I gave her a spoonful of yorgurt (which she gets daily) and an hour later she had a half mucousy (white) half solid poo... then 30 mins after that she had pure clear dark green liquid?!? But was fine other than that. Ate a thigh for lunch. Half a back for dinner. Didn't have another poo until 5am today. Which was a good poo. Another little one at lunch today, some loose some solid. :redface: Maybe we'll skip the yogurt? I dunno.. 

Its hard to split meals due to her little size- she needs to be fed 3x a day yet.. So I am doing half a chix back half breakfast, half chix back lunch, half a quarter dinner. Figure dinner should be her biggest meal since she has the longest time gap between dinner and breakfast. If she needs more I will do a whole back for breakfast. 

The bitch was 60lbs the sire 90lbs. I am guessing Oak will be about 60, if not less, shes small for her age. I've been trying to feed about a pound a day. 

-----

It would be much easier to just feed kibble. And I got kinda nervous the other day.. but honestly, I think this is whats *best for her*. On TOTW she was pooping 7-8 times a day. BIG poops. Obviously she was not getting much out of that food. I swear.. I mean I was only feeding her 1.5-1.75 cups a day... and she was probably pooping more than that out! 

Now she poops 2-3 times a day and they are very tiny! Her body can process this diet to the max! *Shes like a lean mean meat processing machine!* Yes, we are going through a transition which is a bit up and down, but I am going to give this at least a month. Even switching kibbles can cause this much upset in a dog. I believe this is going to be a good thing for us, but nothing happens overnight. 

Thank you so much for helping me through this! I'm learning so much here... and from the links provided. :biggrin:


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## g00dgirl (Nov 18, 2009)

2% of 60lbs is 1.2lbs... I would probably aim for at least 1.2-1.8lbs (2-3% of body weight) to start with.
You can add that extra bit at bed time if she tends to get hunger pukes. Mine did when I first switched (and still do occasionally) and a snack before bed helped.


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

oakley said:


> Just backs seemed like too much bone- her stools were too hard/powdery. So I added in quarters as of yesterday. But yesterday morning we had some weird poos. I gave her a spoonful of yorgurt (which she gets daily) and an hour later she had a half mucousy (white) half solid poo... then 30 mins after that she had pure clear dark green liquid?!? But was fine other than that. Ate a thigh for lunch. Half a back for dinner. Didn't have another poo until 5am today. Which was a good poo. Another little one at lunch today, some loose some solid. :redface: Maybe we'll skip the yogurt? I dunno..


Leave off the yogurt. It's not doing what you think it is anyway and it's adding an unknown into the equation. Her body needs to learn to digest real food and if you are helping her digest it, it takes her longer to learn. 



> Its hard to split meals due to her little size- she needs to be fed 3x a day yet.. So I am doing half a chix back half breakfast, half chix back lunch, half a quarter dinner. Figure dinner should be her biggest meal since she has the longest time gap between dinner and breakfast. If she needs more I will do a whole back for breakfast.


If you are feeding her around a pound a day, thats fine. Too much food can cause digestive upset at this stage so keep the volume on the low side for a few weeks at least.



> It would be much easier to just feed kibble.


You're going to be surprised. In a couple of months after you have a set routine and Oakley has settled in on the diet, this will be almost as easy as feeding kibble. In my case, only packing up a case of stuff into ziplock bags is more difficult than kibble. The rest is just as easy and you won't give each meal a second thought.



> And I got kinda nervous the other day.. but honestly, I think this is whats *best for her*. On TOTW she was pooping 7-8 times a day. BIG poops. Obviously she was not getting much out of that food. I swear.. I mean I was only feeding her 1.5-1.75 cups a day... and she was probably pooping more than that out!


Exactly :smile:


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## Guest (Nov 30, 2009)

RawFedDogs said:


> You gotta know Claybuster. He would love to feed raw. He knows its the optimum way to feed a dog but he's a bone phobic and can't bring himself to do it. :smile:


 Methinks Claybuster wants everyone to feed Abady.


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## oakley (Nov 18, 2009)

Welll.. so now we are back to the other end of the spectrum.. Her stools seem too hard again.. and she just passed one that kinda looked like it had blood on it. 

Should I just balance this with some boneless chicken cuts? feed quarter pieces 2x a day instead of backs? 

Right now my action plan was half a back breakfast, half a back lunch, half a quarter dinner... She had half a back for breakfast. I am giving her a drumstick for lunch to see if that helps.. 

Do their bodies eventually process the bone better? There seems to be a few lil chucks of bone in her stool.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

I would at least feed one boneless meal a day if you plan to do a back at breakfast and lunch. Feed a boneless breast or something for dinner.

Eventually their bodies get used to digesting bone better. I noticed this when we switched our Dane puppy. It took her a month or so to have more normal stools on a regular basis. Just give your dog time to adjust.


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## jdatwood (Apr 13, 2009)

danemama08 said:


> Eventually their bodies get used to digesting bone better. I noticed this when we switched our Dane puppy. It took her a month or so to have more normal stools on a regular basis. Just give your dog time to adjust.


Yeah, I won't forget the day she swallowed a whole chicken drumstick and 2 days later pooped out the whole drumstick minus the meat :biggrin:


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## oakley (Nov 18, 2009)

Good grief! Thats insane! 

Now when they swallow them whole, do you notice them coming out whole?


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## jdatwood (Apr 13, 2009)

I can't remember the last time I saw whole bone come out and Akasha doesn't chew her food very well LOL


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

oakley said:


> Good grief! Thats insane!
> 
> Now when they swallow them whole, do you notice them coming out whole?


We used to see it on a regular basis when we were switching the puppy to raw, but like I said that changed within a month or so. 

Every once in a while I will notice a whole bone, or piece of a whole bone, come out...but I think that has to do with them not having that particular type of protein that often, and therefore their body doesn't "know" how to process it as well as something like chicken, which they have on a regular basis. Akasha has been known to swallow an entire pork rib, but we never see a whole bone come out in that case. The last bone I saw come out of Bailey was after we gave her a huge turkey leg. And since that was probably her first time having a turkey leg, I can understand seeing a whole piece of bone come out.


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## oakley (Nov 18, 2009)

Thats so interesting. 

I saw some pork necks tonight while scouring for breasts, but resisted the urge. I had never seen them before, loots like a lot of bone. I'm learning a lot about meat through this process! 

Well after having a leg for lunch her stool was better tonight. I gave her half a back and half a boneless breast tonight... we'll see how things look in the morning! Shes getting really good at eating this stuff!


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

I would stay away from pork neck bones. Some people feed them but I personally don't like their shape. Its just awkward, kinda like a T-bone, which are also not recommended for dogs. And since there are plenty of different cuts to pork I don't feel so bad not giving them to the girls.

We give them pork ribs, which crunch up nicely compared to beef ribs which are great for chew toys. Pork shoulder or rump roasts are great if you can find them on sale...one of our local grocers had them for $.99/pound a while back. We bought about 15 of them...the cashier thought we were having a big BBQ and was astonished when we said..."Nope, just buying dog food!"


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## Maab (Nov 9, 2009)

jdatwood said:


> I can't remember the last time I saw whole bone come out and Akasha doesn't chew her food very well LOL


In my dog's old time when she was on kibble and having diarrhea more often than not, I remember clearly after I gave her some big bone to chew on, maybe a knuckle bone... Well while the liquid was coming out suddenly I saw a bullet so fast that bounced several times on the sidewalk. I didn't know whether to laugh or else.

But after I picked it up I noticed that it was quite sharp too.


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## Maab (Nov 9, 2009)

Few days ago, her poop had something like a blade almost, very thing. I don't understand it how can that happen from a chicken quarte, I believe. 
I like to belive it's not dangerous to the dog.


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## claybuster (Dec 18, 2008)

RawFedDogs said:


> rawfeederr said:
> 
> 
> > They are just trying to help. There is absolutely nothing wrong with raw feeding!! Sheesh..
> ...


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## jdatwood (Apr 13, 2009)

claybuster said:


> In all honesty if I had the freezer space I would probably go 50% raw 50% granular.


Just curious... if you had the space why would you continue feeding granular?


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## claybuster (Dec 18, 2008)

LabbieMama said:


> Methinks Claybuster wants everyone to feed Abady.


Not true Mama, I have absolutely no interest other than I like to discuss it and consider myself a consumer advocate. So many, SO MANY, people are so anti-Abady because of those very ingredients, at least there is ONE LONE SOLDIER like myself who has nothing but great results with the feed that takes the time to talk about it...

I give you credit though, at least you tried it and decided it was not you.
What was it again? The fish odor you didn't like or something like that? I can't smell in the bowl on the floor, only when I scoop out of the box I notice the fish smell, but to me it's not overpowering.


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## claybuster (Dec 18, 2008)

jdatwood said:


> Just curious... if you had the space why would you continue feeding granular?


Mainly for reasons of costs. I could but back on the amount of granular needed.

They will tell you (on the side of the box), although granular is a complete food in itself, adding fresh meat (up to 15% by weight w/granular) would be consistent with any good feeding program. I feed right out of the box. It is not a cheap diet and one has to buy a large number of feeding in every box. I've been getting a good deal at one store and paying $65 for 35-lbs (Basic granular). Not only that, my last box he couldn't find the price so knocked off another 10%, even though I told him 35-lbs of Basic would be comparable in price to 40-lbs of Classic granular. That store overall though has better prices than some other places I have seen where they charge up to $70+ for the 40-lbs of Classic.

At 800 cals per cup, and raw being about 400 cup, I could reduce the amount of granular further and bump up the raw above the 15% and try to save some more cash. I have to consider the cost though of utility up here in Connecticut which is not cheap in running another freezer. My bill get up to $300+ come summertime with the pool filter and AC’s running. I really don’t want to run a freezer other than in the kitchen.


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## jdatwood (Apr 13, 2009)

We get most of our meat for $0.40-$1/lb. Couldn't you easily offset your utility costs in the $$ you'd save feeding meat, bones & organs over granular?


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## oakley (Nov 18, 2009)

jdatwood said:


> We get most of our meat for $0.40-$1/lb. Couldn't you easily offset your utility costs in the $$ you'd save feeding meat, bones & organs over granular?



Where and what are you getting for $.40? :biggrin:

There are some big chix sales this week for .99 a lb - even for boneless skinless! :biggrin: Ima stockin up on stuff.


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## jdatwood (Apr 13, 2009)

oakley said:


> Where and what are you getting for $.40? :biggrin:
> 
> There are some big chix sales this week for .99 a lb - even for boneless skinless! :biggrin: Ima stockin up on stuff.


We buy in bulk from Welcome to Harvest Meat Company!


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## claybuster (Dec 18, 2008)

jdatwood said:


> We get most of our meat for $0.40-$1/lb. Couldn't you easily offset your utility costs in the $$ you'd save feeding meat, bones & organs over granular?


You're averaging about .70 per pound. That's really good. Per pound of granular I am higher. BASIC granular would work out to about 1.80 per pound.
However, I have to look at my cost rather per serving instead of per pound.
I am getting easily 3 months out of a box on average, at least 90+ servings.
$65/90 servings put me at .72, averaging right about where you're at. Cost wise no real saving for me, however I am not going to argue that feeding fresh meat is the best option for dogs. If I had the extra freezer space like a nice basement freezer it would be stocked with meats for the family and the dogs! I would hope to get a deer or two every year and load that sucker up.


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## claybuster (Dec 18, 2008)

jdatwood said:


> We buy in bulk from Welcome to Harvest Meat Company!


Wow, they got a lot of stuff...I wanna order for myself!


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

claybuster said:


> Wow, they got a lot of stuff...I wanna order for myself!


The nice thing is that you can order nicer meats for yourself. They just come in bulk packages! 

When we make an order, they ask if we are with the raw meat and bone feeders. They let us order anything we want and its cheap! :biggrin:


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## oakley (Nov 18, 2009)

I foung a GREAT grocery just a mile frommy place with bagged quarters for $.49 a lb...! yessssssssssss!

Oakley is doing good, with good firm but not too hard poo, this week. I've been feeding half backs with pieces of boneless breast. And half of quarters, ie a thigh or leg for meals. Three meals a day. 

Everyone keeps saying how much she has grown, etc. :biggrin: 


Shes 15 weeks on Monday and 16lbs as of last night. 


So I'm going to grab some more quarters this week for her. What do you think about adding in a meal of another protein, every few days? I bought some sardines last week. I also have goose and venison in the freezer. The backs I have been feeding have had some good organ meet on them, so that is also adding in a bit of variety. 

Shes really getting good with eating her raw... even though she lost two teeth this week!


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Has she only been on chicken exclusively for at least a week *with* consistent firm stools? 

If so I would say that you could add in another protein source alternating meals...ie one of bone-in chicken and one of the new meat source a day. I would go with another bone-in meat if you can at first to keep the stools firm, just in case there is some upset to her system. Continue with the alternating of the new meat source and the chicken for like a week. Then add in something else with the same procedure! 

If not....I would wait until you see a weeks worth of consistently firm poos before adding anything else in!

Glad to hear that she is doing well and growing! Good luck and keep us posted :biggrin:


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## Guest (Dec 8, 2009)

claybuster said:


> Not true Mama, I have absolutely no interest other than I like to discuss it and consider myself a consumer advocate. So many, SO MANY, people are so anti-Abady because of those very ingredients, at least there is ONE LONE SOLDIER like myself who has nothing but great results with the feed that takes the time to talk about it...
> 
> I give you credit though, at least you tried it and decided it was not you.
> What was it again? The fish odor you didn't like or something like that? I can't smell in the bowl on the floor, only when I scoop out of the box I notice the fish smell, but to me it's not overpowering.


Sorry for the delay, I just saw this just now. I wouldn't say the granular was "not for me." I didn't think my dogs did too well on it. I also fed temporarily the Abady New Frontier kibble with just OK results. My dogs are now on a grain-free diet and doing really well and everyone is happy. End of story. To each his own. Peace Out. :smile:


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## claybuster (Dec 18, 2008)

LabbieMama said:


> Sorry for the delay, I just saw this just now. I wouldn't say the granular was "not for me." I didn't think my dogs did too well on it. I also fed temporarily the Abady New Frontier kibble with just OK results. My dogs are now on a grain-free diet and doing really well and everyone is happy. End of story. To each his own. Peace Out. :smile:


Yes, I remember when you tried it and sent me a PM, something about you didn't like the fish smell. BTW, I would try 2 weeks on a product instead of 2 hours. At least the folks at the Metzlers were nice enough to buy it back from you!


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## Guest (Dec 10, 2009)

claybuster said:


> Yes, I remember when you tried it and sent me a PM, something about you didn't like the fish smell. BTW, I would try 2 weeks on a product instead of 2 hours. At least the folks at the Metzlers were nice enough to buy it back from you!


The granular does have a very unusual odor, I'm not sure why. Granted, all kibble smells bad to me, but this one was the worst.


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