# Trying to get all my questions answered before starting a raw diet!! Please help



## lizs1114 (Sep 15, 2013)

I adopted Rigatoni when he was 8 weeks old on April 1, 2012. He is now 19 months old, and 53lbs. I've fed him Blue Buffalo since the beginning, and he was never a big food eater. He was never interested in his food, and never begged for people food. He's had the "normal" puppy issues, most recently kennel cough from his doggy daycare (it was a bad outbreak in our area, they had to shut down the facility for a few days and even installed an air ventilation system because of it).
I've always felt like his immune system just wasn't that great, so I began giving him multivitamins. But I've just known something is "off".
I always thought feeding him blue buffalo was the best thing to do and I didn't even consider the raw food diet because I thought that was a little over the top, and assumed it was very expensive and time consuming. But recently after the second bout of kennel cough (wasn't as bad as his first), and I believe his pyoderma (a skin bacterial infection, which basically means a little hair loss and he gets little scabs all over..poor thing) has returned, I've pretty much had it. I was thinking of home cooking all his food, but knew his nutritional needs were probably going to be different than a persons....that's when I began researching the raw diet. The same day I started researching, I met a woman in our local dog park who's dogs coat was so shiny and beautiful, and teeth were so white I ended up asking what she fed her, and go figure, it was a raw diet. Now I'm obsessed. And I finally took the time to figure out how much money I spend him with his blue buffalo per month ($127...which was a lot more than I thought I was paying) that I decided even if the raw was twice as much at least I can say I tried everything for my guy.
I found out pretty soon after adopting him that I was pretty allergic to him, went to an allergist and found out I was right. So basically I live off of Claritin-D and allergy shots. I do have to keep up with his coat and bathing him (or at the very least hosing him down with just water after he's been around another dog) otherwise my allergies are horrible.
I have a few questions...sorry if they've been asked before, but there is just so much information to sort through which gets very overwhelming. I've been reading up as much as I can about switching my 19 month old dog to a raw food diet. I'm bad at math/calculations, and even worse when I read more and more and see other factors that have to be included in the diet (the % of organs, meat and bone in a diet...but I know i'll figure that out once my initial questions are answered and I'm not so nervous about getting it right).

Currently I'm feeding Rigatoni his kibble with small bits of raw beef bone meat mixed in with it. It's a minimal amount, but he devours it. Is this okay to do? I've read doing a partial raw diet is okay, but I haven't come across mixing his kibble with raw. I use the raw (like I've had to do with wet food) just to entice him to eat. And it's worked so well...i've NEVER seen him eat like this. I've also given him a raw beef rib bone (under supervision) with all the meat cut off and it keeps him busy for about an hour, and then he may toss it around a few days later but so far (knock on wood) he hasn't wanted to swallow the rest of the bone or attempt to break his teeth by gnawing on it.

Has anyone read about a person who's allergic to the dog having their symptoms reduced from putting the dog on a raw food diet (it's very hard to google this question...I can only find info on dogs with allergies)? My thinking is if it helps with his coat, it should reduce the dander he produces, which in turn will help with my allergies.

Also, I am slightly torn on feeding him raw meat ONLY, or raw meat with veggies. If I choose either one, do I still need to give him supplements or a multivitamin, or does the diet give him all of his daily nutrition he needs?

Another question is if I give him a RBM, does the actual bone weight go into his daily pound of so of food he should get? I'm actually not that concerned with this question since I wouldn't give him a RBM everyday, and he gets plenty of exercise, and because he's white and short haired it's very easy to see if he needs to take off or put on weight.

Thank you in advance!

Liz

PS I posted this is the introduction section too, I have never used a forum before so I'm new to that too.


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## Gally (Jan 28, 2012)

lizs1114 said:


> Currently I'm feeding Rigatoni his kibble with small bits of raw beef bone meat mixed in with it. It's a minimal amount, but he devours it. Is this okay to do? I've read doing a partial raw diet is okay, but I haven't come across mixing his kibble with raw. I use the raw (like I've had to do with wet food) just to entice him to eat. And it's worked so well...i've NEVER seen him eat like this. I've also given him a raw beef rib bone (under supervision) with all the meat cut off and it keeps him busy for about an hour, and then he may toss it around a few days later but so far (knock on wood) he hasn't wanted to swallow the rest of the bone or attempt to break his teeth by gnawing on it.
> 
> Has anyone read about a person who's allergic to the dog having their symptoms reduced from putting the dog on a raw food diet (it's very hard to google this question...I can only find info on dogs with allergies)? My thinking is if it helps with his coat, it should reduce the dander he produces, which in turn will help with my allergies.
> 
> ...


Most kibble already has a high amount of calcium in it so I'd be cautious about just adding bone to it. Don't want to over do it too much.

I have only read anecdotal stories about people's allergies improving when there dogs have been switched to raw. If your dog had dry skin before you might notice a difference.

Most people here feed prey model raw which doesn't include veggies. You don't need a multivitamin or supplements beyond possible fish oil if you can't feed raw oily fish or mostly free-range meat.

The % for bone and organ comes out of the total weight you feed per day.


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## sozzle (May 18, 2011)

Go over to PMR Articles - articles - Prey Model Raw lots of useful info for the beginner.


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## Celt (Dec 27, 2010)

I'm not sure if going raw will help your allergies but I do know a couple who adopted a pup. Everything was fine for a couple of weeks then the husband developed a rash and teary eyes when ever he played with the pup. End up that they had changed the pup's food and even though the husband didn't handle the food, once they changed the food back his symptoms went away.


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## lizs1114 (Sep 15, 2013)

Took the plunge tonight and the pooch knew exactly what to do and im currently his favorite person in the world. I hope this helps with my allergies , but that was really only a long shot anyway. I want him to be as healthy as possible, ill deal with the sniffles for him


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## Herzo (Feb 5, 2011)

I don't know about the allergies and feeding raw but I have 4 dogs and am only allergic to my pit bull. I don't know what the difference is but I have gotten better with time. I seem to always build up some immunity to things over time.

I do feed 2 of my dogs both kibble and raw but i don't feed it mixed together. I feed it in different meals. However sled dog people often feed it together but I wouldn't recommend doing it that way.


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## buildabetterdog (Jul 28, 2013)

raw meat or or meat only feeding has several deficiencies. First is the 6 to 9% fiber in the diet that the dog needs for good digestive performance. Adding vegetables and/or fruits would resolve this. The fruits would also supply the dog with carbohydrates which the whole meat diet does not(remember low-carb diets).
Finally whole meat feeding or meat and vegetable diets do not supply enough trace minerals and macro-minerals. They collectively supply about 25-40% of their daily requirements for calcium, phosphorus, magnesium, copper, zinc, and manganese so a mineral supplement(particularly a chelated mineral supplement would be a worthwhile and needed complement to the diet.


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## lizs1114 (Sep 15, 2013)

Theres 2 different types of dog allergies apparently. I went to an allergist and got the testing done, and I was only allergic to one of the allergens. I have no idea what causes either, but I was given medicine that increases my immunity over time. I figured him sleeping in bed is good enough lol He just sheds SO much and has so much dander from Im assuming dry skin. If a raw food makes their coat so nice then it must reduce his dander/shedding. We'll see. I shouldve bought stock in Claritin D years ago tho


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

We feed meat, bone and organ only with fish oil supplementation for Omega 3's. All dogs are doing excellently for years now. My three mentors have been feeding like this for over three decades and their dogs and puppies are in fantastic health. No fruit, veg, or carbs needed here. 

Blood work is always great. We are currently feeding from 2 years old to ten years old and wean litters directly to raw. 

Liz


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## lizs1114 (Sep 15, 2013)

Once hes on the time frame to introduce fish Ill see if he likes it (or if I eat it as sushi) then he wont need fish oil or omega capsules right? 

I just gave him a tiny piece of cheese...I figured its raw enough lol


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

We use dehydrated lug or liver or meat jerky for treats. Dogs are lactose intolerant so I usually avoid milk products and anything with carb which they don't need and can be taxing to their system. A bit of cheese though here or there is not a big deal but I wouldn't give a lot. JMHO


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## lizs1114 (Sep 15, 2013)

Thanks Liz! He has never liked food and/or treats but always liked cheese! But ive never given him it in anything more than like a pinky nail sized. Normally he "allows" me to place it in his mouth and literally spits it out and walks away lol
The only thing hes ever been excited over is cow ears (not raw...I dont even know if they make them raw). I think he just likes flinging them around and rolling on them. I have no clue if theyre okay on a raw diet but he loves them and so do I (they dont smell much or leave residue and hes never had any digestive issues w them). I gave him one tonight, he flung it around and rolled on it....typical


What can I give him that allows him to run all over the house with it and have me not worry about bacteria/smell? I think (THINK) a cow ear is good

Im literally less than 36 hrs in and watch him (peripherally) as he eats his food or anything. He seemed a little bored tonight. And of course all of a sudden he acts like hes starving to death.


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

I have multiple dogs so I don't give the cow or pig ears because they adore them and it will cause a fight. I think they are an OK treat occasionally or if he doesn't eat them fast. My collies could eat through one pig ear or cow ear in just a few minutes. We have also used pizzles and yak chews also. 

My baby puppies get pigs feet and after a few minutes of chewing they are pretty clean to play with around the house. 

I am glad he enjoys his cows ear.


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## danielba73 (Sep 12, 2013)

Hello Liz,
I read your post but not all the answers you received so maybe what I will write has already been said by others. I think going raw would be great for your dog, and you would not be spending much more than you do now. You should make an abrupt change and not feed him raw+kibbles. The quantities you want to feed him are 2%-3% of his body weight per day. If you make a good switch of meat, vegetables and fruits, you need not supply and additional supplements. I wrote on article on raw you may want to read for more info. If you any questions please let me know.

BARF diet - raw dog food


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## lizs1114 (Sep 15, 2013)

We are about to be on raw for one week tomorrow. Its been leg quarters with no skin. So far everything is good. He hand one hunger puke so since his activity level is high (dog park for 2 hours a night and he RUNS the entire time) im going to give him a fee more ounces for his meals. He looks a little thin. But when should I try another protein? I am still amazed at how much he enjoys his new meals!!


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## Gally (Jan 28, 2012)

First I would gradually add the skin back in. So maybe cut off 3/4 tomorrow, 1/2 the next day and 1/4 the day after and see how he's doing after that. If his stools get runny then go back a step with the amount of skin/fat left on.
If he does fine with the skin then you can move on to turkey.


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## lizs1114 (Sep 15, 2013)

I did add a little skin to his breakfast this morning. And again for dinner (no pooping yet for that one). it's still so weird to me how he doesn't poop as often!! 
I dont want to over do it, so i'll see. Almost a week with minimal problems is amazing, especially since I was so nervous (I even had a "nightmare" last night about the feeding..so i'm still nervous)


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## LilasMom (Mar 10, 2012)

buildabetterdog said:


> raw meat or or meat only feeding has several deficiencies. First is the 6 to 9% fiber in the diet that the dog needs for good digestive performance. Adding vegetables and/or fruits would resolve this. The fruits would also supply the dog with carbohydrates which the whole meat diet does not(remember low-carb diets).
> Finally whole meat feeding or meat and vegetable diets do not supply enough trace minerals and macro-minerals. They collectively supply about 25-40% of their daily requirements for calcium, phosphorus, magnesium, copper, zinc, and manganese so a mineral supplement(particularly a chelated mineral supplement would be a worthwhile and needed complement to the diet.


Dogs do not need fiber, veggies, or fruit. They do great and thrive on animal products alone. Raw meat, organs, and bones have all the minerals you just mentioned. Veggies and fruits negatively impact digestive performance because the pancreas is overworked to produce enough amylase to digest the plant matter.


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## buildabetterdog (Jul 28, 2013)

Gally said:


> Most kibble already has a high amount of calcium in it so I'd be cautious about just adding bone to it. Don't want to over do it too much.
> 
> I have only read anecdotal stories about people's allergies improving when there dogs have been switched to raw. If your dog had dry skin before you might notice a difference.
> 
> ...


Do yourself and your dog a favor. Look at the USDA, FDA, NRC, and AFFCO and look at their daily requirements, particularly for calcium and phosphorus. You will find the two at around 1.0% and 0.8% respectively. Then google something like "calcium in meats" and "phosphorus in meats". Again, you will probably find the levels to be less than .25% on each but please do the work and calculate for yourself.

Anyone who tells you all is fine and has not done the same, is acting recklessly and is not taking what is best for the dog into consideration. If you take a look at the University of California-Davis study, they analyzed 199 home receipes(a number of which were formulated by vets) and found only six were adequately balanced for the long term health of your dog.

Also, I have read several items in this forum regarding blood work-ups and found them 1.) almost no levels tracked of copper, zinc, and manganese which are vital trace minerals, and 2.) no realization that dogs that are being fed less than adequate levels of minerals will leach those minerals out of bone and meat tissue and blood analysis can show adequate levels until the bones begin to lack proper density and strength and then your dog is at risk for displasia and joint problems which may not be observable for a time.


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## Gally (Jan 28, 2012)

It's a good thing we feed bones and eggs with shell included to make up for that lack of calcium and phosphorous in meat.

You might find this helpful


http://www.retrieverpro.com/dog-healthy-food-calcium/


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

I guess I should let the people who mentored me in transitioning to raw that their dogs
are falling apart. NOT 

They are happily feeding PMR raw no carb, veg, fruit or grain sine the 80's and have many generations of pups in excellent health competing in dock diving, lure coursing, obedience, agility and herding. Somehow I think I will stick to what I have seen works first hand - PMR raw! 

Liz


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## lizs1114 (Sep 15, 2013)

But could a multivitamin hurt at all? I mean, personally I eat like crap and dunno if my levels are right and always figured thats what multivitamins are for. Dont you just pee out what your body doesnt use??


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

Yes, just because something is natural doesn't mean it is good. Giving a supplement without there being a need can cause an imbalance, or in some cases like vitamin c if you continuously give extra c just because the dog's body will produce less and less on it's own. Some vitamins are fat soluble and some water soluble - too much of a fat soluble builds up in the body and causes liver and possibly kidney issues. 

Feed a variety of meat proteins - I try for at least four and can something special a few times per year. We feed chicken, turkey, beef, pork and duck as staples. Rabbit, goat and venison are treats I can buy once in a while. 

So far their blood values have been great and my puppies have grown fabulously. My seniors act like puppies and still don't have a touch of arthritis. 

Liz


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