# BEST, all natural, as close to raw kibble?



## AdrianVall

Hey guys,

I've been feeding my dogs Prey Model Raw for the last 2 years. Although they do EXTREMELY well on the diet, its taking a toll on my fiance' and I. We have a tiny house, tiny kitchen, and our two freezers take up the majority of the one spare room we have. The whole raw thing is a LOT of work, and its just becoming tiresome. So, with that said.. I need suggestions for the BEST dry dog food that I can purchase for them that is as close to raw as it can get. I know I may catch a lot of heat from this, but please, throw out some suggestions. Raw is a wonderful diet for dogs, and I will get back to it again once I live in a bigger house some day.

So please, what are the best kibbles out there? I was thinking Acana looks wonderful, and I remember before I fed raw, that dog food came highly recommended. 

Oh, and I have an Enlgish Mastiff and a Boxer. 

Thanks guys!
Adrian


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## SaharaNight Boxers

Yay another Boxer!!

Acana changed their formulas around and Champion foods as a whole changed where they source ingredients from. They're still all in N. America though. 

Do you have a budget?


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## AdrianVall

Budget? Well.. lets just say, I want the best. I'm currently feeding my mastiff 4-6 lbs. of meat a day, and my boxer 2-3 lbs. a day of raw meat. Obviously that will go way down once I get them on kibble. But about how many lbs. of dog food will I be going through a month, I wonder? Hmmm..


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## Little Brown Jug

We have a 41lb, 37lb and a 120lb dogs. A large bag does us a month right on the spot in a day we dish out 4 - 5 cups all together. Can't go wrong with Orijen/Acana. I like Instinct, Fromm and Go! as well. If your in Canada you can try Oven-Baked as well. We're currently feeding Acana Chicken & Burbank Potatoe. The first time I've bought a grain inclusive food in a long time but there aren't that many grains in it. I think just steel cut oats. Anyways dogs are doing amazing on it! Their poops haven't even gotten bigger. We also do half raw, just don't have the space or the resources for full time raw right now so a few days a week we dish out some raw goodies, usually turkey necks to help with keep the chompers in check.


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## SaharaNight Boxers

To keep weight on Duke he was eating about 5 cups a day at 75 lbs. We went through a 12 lb bag in a little under two weeks. It was at least 2-3 bags a month. He is intact though. Even with just a decent kibble (Blue Buffalo) raw ended up being cheaper. Even on Orijen he would've needed 4 cups a day at least.

Some type of dehydrated would probably be closest.


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## domika

If price is not an issue Ziwipeak is great. Or freeze dried or dehydrated foods like the honest kitchen, sojos, etc. Canned food is also a great alternative or good as a mix in. I would transition my dog slowly onto whatever you decide on since its been 2 years since they've had kibble, hence why I rec'd some things in between. As for kibble, I'm a fan of Fromm, horizon, acana/Orijen and natures variety.


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## domika

Also forgot that natures variety has a kibble called raw boost with freeze dried meat pieces in it. I have not personally tried it or heard anything about it yet as its still pretty new. Just thought I'd mention.


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## AdrianVall

How about Orijen 80/20 Adult Formula? Ingredient list looks great! Lots of meats, which I like!

Fresh boneless chicken, chicken meal, fresh boneless salmon, turkey meal, herring meal, russet potato, peas, sweet potato, fresh boneless turkey, fresh whole eggs, fresh chicken liver, fresh boneless lake whitefish, fresh boneless walleye, sun-cured alfalfa, pea fiber, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), organic kelp, pumpkin, chicory root, carrots, spinach, turnip greens, apples, cranberries, blueberries, licorice root, angelica root, fenugreek, marigold flowers, sweet fennel, peppermint leaf, chamomile, dandelion, summer savory, rosemary, vitamin A, vitamin D3, vitamin E, niacin, thiamine mononitrate, riboflavin, d-calcium pantothenate, pyridoxine, folic acid, biotin, vitamin B12, zinc proteinate, iron proteinate, manganese proteinate, copper proteinate, selenium yeast, Lactobacillus acidophilus, Enterococcus faecium.


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## SaharaNight Boxers

Orijen is basically the only kibble I'd feed. That and Go! I'd definitely go with Orijen.


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## Sheltielover25

domika said:


> If price is not an issue Ziwipeak is great. Or freeze dried or dehydrated foods like the honest kitchen, sojos, etc. Canned food is also a great alternative or good as a mix in. I would transition my dog slowly onto whatever you decide on since its been 2 years since they've had kibble, hence why I rec'd some things in between. As for kibble, I'm a fan of Fromm, horizon, acana/Orijen and natures variety.


I second this. If money isn't an issue, the closest thing to raw is Ziwipeak. I can't imagine is being cheaper than meat, though. I feed my dogs all grass-fed/free range meats for about $150 a month; they only total about about 55lbs, though! My cat, who is 9lbs, on Ziwipeak canned(mostly) and air dried cost about $60-$80 a month!


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## mheath0429

You could try grandma lucys its freeze. Dried and I believe 10lbs makes 50-55lbme when rehydrated. I keep it on hand mine love it andbefore I fed raw I fed it for one meal with chicken or some meat. Intolerable just add a big. But there is plenty of meat in it already. Its cost effective and agreed very well with my dogs


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## monster'sdad

Dr. Tim's Pursuit, or Momentum if they get enough exercise. Momentum is one of lowest carbohydrate foods sold.


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## Shamrockmommy

Or the honest kitchen is also a dehydrated food. I really am quite happy with fromm four star foods as well. 

Keep in mind you can still give rmbs and fresh toppers From Your meals as well. Mine get a big variety like that and are doing well. I won't give up rmbs because it helps their teeth so much.


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## AdrianVall

ziwipeak = WAY to much.. lol didn't realize there is dog food out there that expensive.

Honest kitchen is a potential option.. however, the ingredients list doesn't look all that great. There is just one source of meat, and I honestly question how much of that one source of meat is actually in there.

I may just give the Orijen 80/20 a try. Lots of meats and minimal in the other ingredients. I just hope there poo doesn't increase in size..  That's my favorite thing about feeding them raw.


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## shellbeme

Honestly, to me trying to find a kibble close to raw is apples and oranges, however if you're looking for the most meat content in kibble out there, the only one I can think of is Orijen. Fromm is my favorite but if it's meat content you want, Orijen is the first one I think of.


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## DaViking

AdrianVall said:


> I may just give the Orijen 80/20 a try. Lots of meats and minimal in the other ingredients. I just hope there poo doesn't increase in size..  That's my favorite thing about feeding them raw.


Orijen Regional Red is 41% meats, 25% meals, 5% eggs. The rest is plants, additional animal oils and added vitamins and minerals. The positive side with meats is that it is not rendered into a meal at some supplier and is locally sourced and short traveled. A rendering process have 3 main issues; high temperatures, mechanical damage and oxidation. Good suppliers delivers good quality rendered meals low in ash and no oxidation issues to speak of. Cheaper lower quality meals where the supplier and customer do not pay enough attention to it's properties will lead to a lesser product. The negative side of meats is that they are wet weight, weighed as they go into the mix. Depending on production method 50% to 80% of the meat weight is gone in the finished product. So in this case with Orijen Regional Red the finished product does not contain 41% "fresh" meat. The amount of "fresh" meat will be reduced and the other ingredients increase accordingly, depending on their moisture level.

If you feel most comfortable with as many wet meats as possible Orijen is probably your best bet.
If you do not want any rendered products what-so-ever Now from Petcurean might be for you.
If you are ok with good quality concentrated meals providing the bulk of the protein you should look closer at foods like Dr. Tim's, RedPaw or perhaps Evo. Many other good ones too but those 3 was at the top of my head right now.


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## domika

AdrianVall said:


> ziwipeak = WAY to much.. lol didn't realize there is dog food out there that expensive.
> 
> Honest kitchen is a potential option.. however, the ingredients list doesn't look all that great. There is just one source of meat, and I honestly question how much of that one source of meat is actually in there.
> 
> I may just give the Orijen 80/20 a try. Lots of meats and minimal in the other ingredients. I just hope there poo doesn't increase in size..  That's my favorite thing about feeding them raw.


Yeah it's crazy expensive and I have a 12lb dog!! It was AWESOME just expensive. I would only use it for traveling now. I hope you guys find a solution that works for you. I always think it would be cool to go PMR but I just keep thinking about all the work so I can really see where you're coming from as it being a lot of work.


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## monster'sdad

shellbeme said:


> Honestly, to me trying to find a kibble close to raw is apples and oranges, however if you're looking for the most meat content in kibble out there, the only one I can think of is Orijen. Fromm is my favorite but if it's meat content you want, Orijen is the first one I think of.


It is all optics. You can only make this determination by looking at the calorie distribution by Protein, Fat & Carbs not by reading the label of ingredients. Of the quality foods Dr. Tim's Momentum, Evo, Red Paw would be the lowest carbohydrates.


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## AdrianVall

Hmm.. I'm really liking Evo's ingredients! I may try that instead.. Thank you all so much for the help! I greatly appreciate it! I'm just afraid my dogs aren't going to eat it. They've been eating raw for so long that they might just look at the food, like "what the heck is this?!" LOL.. my mastiff is super picky at times too. Oh well.


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## monster'sdad

Just keep in mind Evo is very high in ash (minerals), especially the poultry formula. If you notice excessive drinking stop using it.

Personally, for these breed types I would dial both protein and fat down to the 25/15 area, and maybe a 30% protein and up to 20% in fat if they are young, active or intact. 

I am not in the camp of overly restricting the feeding of very rich foods to dogs that don't really need them. What happens is that you feed down to a proper amount fat at the expense of protein.


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## SaharaNight Boxers

monster'sdad said:


> Just keep in mind Evo is very high in ash (minerals), especially the poultry formula. If you notice excessive drinking stop using it.
> 
> Personally, for these breed types I would dial both protein and fat down to the 25/15 area, and maybe a 30% protein and up to 20% in fat if they are young, active or intact.
> 
> I am not in the camp of overly restricting the feeding of very rich foods to dogs that don't really need them. What happens is that you feed down to a proper amount fat at the expense of protein.


Honestly, Boxers need more protein than fat. Ive found it doesnt take mich fat to keep their coat in good condition. Plus, the possible bloat connection. They need a high enough protein to maintain their lean muscle. And no way would I ever feed anything below 30% protein to them, anything with grains, or corn. They are already the highest breed at risk for cancer, adding a bunch of carbs into their diet really doesn't help with the whole cancer risk especially because they're at a high risk for MCT's also.


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## monster'sdad

SaharaNight Boxers said:


> Honestly, Boxers need more protein than fat. Ive found it doesnt take mich fat to keep their coat in good condition. Plus, the possible bloat connection. They need a high enough protein to maintain their lean muscle. And no way would I ever feed anything below 30% protein to them, anything with grains, or corn. They are already the highest breed at risk for cancer, adding a bunch of carbs into their diet really doesn't help with the whole cancer risk especially because they're at a high risk for MCT's also.


Corn is loaded with anti-cancer compounds according to recent research from Cornell. Far higher than any vegetable.

What is the link to bloat? There is nothing in any bloat research that link diet to bloat. Even high fat is a very weak link. There are lines in even high bloat risk breeds that don't bloat. The Chairman of the Health Committee for the Great Dane Club of America uses Bil Jac and her dogs do not bloat. Bil-Jac is a moderate protein food with corn.

30% is probably a good level for any dog, true, but giant breeds do just fine on somewhat less because they are less active and a moderate protein food is lower in fat. The grams of protein consumed is more important than the GA %.


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## DaViking

SaharaNight Boxers said:


> adding a bunch of carbs into their diet really doesn't help with the whole cancer risk


Stop repeating this. Carbohydrates do not increase the risk of getting cancer, full stop. This is pure nonsense. Cancer use glucose as fuel to grow. Dogs create glucose regardless of carbohydrates. The idea is to not overdo carbohydrates in a cancer patient because this only lead to abundant fuel for the cancer cells. It have nothing to do with the risk of getting cancer, boxers, other breeds or humans.


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## SaharaNight Boxers

As far as diet being a weak link, it may be a weak link, but it's still not something I'd test on my dog. Personally, I wouldn't feed anything that had any kind of bloat factor rather it's confirmed or still being tested. It's just not worth the risk to me. And I meant fat being related to bloat, not corn. 

As far as corn and anti-cancer, I'd want to see some studies done on dogs, not humans.


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## SaharaNight Boxers

DaViking said:


> Stop repeating this. Carbohydrates do not increase the risk of getting cancer, full stop. This is pure nonsense. Cancer use glucose as fuel to grow. Dogs create glucose regardless of carbohydrates. The idea is to not overdo carbohydrates in a cancer patient because this only lead to abundant fuel for the cancer cells. It have nothing to do with the risk of getting cancer, boxers, other breeds or humans.


Maybe I should state it differently. I'm not saying it increased the risk of cancer, I think that's more environmental and genetic. I'm saying it helps to fuel them in excessive levels. I think we also differ in our beliefs about cancer cells. For me, I believe they are there present in the body. Just stopped before they replicate. But if you give more fuel to the cancer cells you're going to create more problems in my opinion. If you believe cancer cells don't exist until mutated and created then I would agreed with you. I don't believe it like that though.


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## Sprocket

What about a dehydrated raw?


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## AdrianVall

I bought a 5 lb. bag of Orijen, and got some sample bags of Evo.

So, between these two.. what would you guys choose?

Evo vs. Orijen ???

Also, the store owner was highly recommending Natures Variety: Instict Raw Boost Grain Free formula. How is that? Doesn't seem to be as many meat ingredients compared to Orijen and Evo. But the store owner said that is his favorite dog food, saying next step down would be Orijen, and Evo being next. I almost bought this, but hadn't really done any research on it.


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## domika

I would pick Orijen over Evo. I can't really compare NVI and Orijen as I haven't tried either. I don't know if I would but the NVI up above the Orijen though.


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## SaharaNight Boxers

Same as above. NV seems to have been having some issues lately do I'd put them below Evo. You can always add in your own dehydrated meat.


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## CorgiPaws

monster'sdad said:


> What is the link to bloat? There is nothing in any bloat research that link diet to bloat. Even high fat is a very weak link. There are lines in even high bloat risk breeds that don't bloat. The Chairman of the Health Committee for the Great Dane Club of America uses Bil Jac and her dogs do not bloat. Bil-Jac is a moderate protein food with corn.


The exact cause of bloat is unknown, so all this talk about genetics and lines is a load of horsesh*t. There is absolutely zero evidence that there are ANY genetic links to bloat, only that a certain conformation type: deep barrel chest, is more likely to be affected. 
Bloat does not run in "lines" and it is not genetic. In fact, at this point in time, most people lean towards stress being a leading cause.
Are you very involved in the giant breed community? WHat kind of dogs do you even own?


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## herl

@AdrianVall, I have fed all these foods at one point. Personally we had better results with Evo than the other two. My local store recommended NV Instinct as well. I found that the NV kibble were small, like cat food size. The Evo kibble is also small. These were my results on those foods:

Orijen 6 Fish – Rough fuzzball coats, tufts of hair everywhere, can’t get a comb through them, much scratching. Also, oddly enough some atypical, wacky, over excited behavior while eating this. Now, I don't say it was the food for sure. I can only say that I haven't seen this in them before or since. It was very odd. I do however know many people who swear by Orijen 6 Fish, and their dogs do great on it. I really wanted to like this food, just didn't work out for us.

Nature’s Variety Instinct-Bought one bag then exchanged due to off smell. Second bag also a little funky. Dogs walked away from the bowls. I believe NV dealt with the issue. They did initiate a recall and said that the product was not contaminated. It just wasn't holding fresh for long enough for some reason. Tiny kibble, tiny rock poops. I think this food may have a higher ash level than some others, so perhaps they don't use low ash meals. 

Evo Herring- Best results of these three. Ok on the transition, a little gassy here and there. Very tiny kibbles are just inhaled! Not needing 42% protein either. There are peas & pea fibre in this food. 

I might suggest that you thoroughly research NV for the quality of the meal, ash level, any potential quality control issues. If you use a formula with rabbit it is sourced from China.


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## AdrianVall

Ok, as much as I'm interested in the debate that is beginning to happen, please keep this thread on topic. I'd prefer to not come back to my thread only to read useless information for my request.


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## DaViking

CorgiPaws said:


> The exact cause of bloat is unknown, so all this talk about genetics and lines is a load of horsesh*t. There is absolutely zero evidence that there are ANY genetic links to bloat, only that a certain conformation type: deep barrel chest, is more likely to be affected.
> Bloat does not run in "lines" and it is not genetic. In fact, at this point in time, most people lean towards stress being a leading cause.
> Are you very involved in the giant breed community? WHat kind of dogs do you even own?


"In fact, at this point in time, most people lean towards stress being a leading cause." Nothing "at this point in time" about it. Stress have always been a leading cause. Everything else is up in the air but stress is and have always been the trigger. I don't think Monster'sDad said certain lines or certain genes are affected? Correct me if I'm wrong. He also said bloat incidents in high risk breeds is not even possible to draw much wisdom from. It's all confusing, so stress and physical traits are left.


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## Felix

AdrianVall said:


> I bought a 5 lb. bag of Orijen, and got some sample bags of Evo.
> 
> So, between these two.. what would you guys choose?
> 
> Evo vs. Orijen ???
> 
> Also, the store owner was highly recommending Natures Variety: Instict Raw Boost Grain Free formula. How is that? Doesn't seem to be as many meat ingredients compared to Orijen and Evo. But the store owner said that is his favorite dog food, saying next step down would be Orijen, and Evo being next. I almost bought this, but hadn't really done any research on it.


The store owner may have highly recommended natures variety because they just had a training on it. I know it happens at our store, for a time after the rep comes, some people recommend a certain foodmore highly than others.I try to take everything with a grain of salt, but those reps are damn persuasive. or maybe it's what he feeds his dog and has had good results. I would say orijen is superior to all of those, but I'm biased on champion foods as its what I feed my dog


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## dr tim

When one speaks of a kibble as close to raw as you could get are you looking at the overall carbohydrate level in the food as to being the decision maker? We may not all understand how to get that number; start with 100 and then subtract stuff that is in that kibble; minus(-)protein level minus-fat level-minus water(10% average)-minus ash(average 10%)-minus fiber. The amount left over should be your carbohydrate level in that particular food. Not required to be listed on the guaranteed analysis but easily figured out. Some companies may supply some of the assumed/averaged numbers as well, so use those instead. That is how I might compare apples to apples in this vein of thought. THen I would break out the protein sources next to compare again if the numbers were close in trying to decide,IMO.


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## monster'sdad

CorgiPaws said:


> The exact cause of bloat is unknown, so all this talk about genetics and lines is a load of horsesh*t. There is absolutely zero evidence that there are ANY genetic links to bloat, only that a certain conformation type: deep barrel chest, is more likely to be affected.
> Bloat does not run in "lines" and it is not genetic. In fact, at this point in time, most people lean towards stress being a leading cause.
> Are you very involved in the giant breed community? WHat kind of dogs do you even own?


You are completely 100% incorrect. It is amazing how you continue to post such false information. There is a strong link to bloat among first degree relatives. And if you take Weimaraners for example, there are lines of Weims that have dramatically higher rates of bloat than others, especially bench lines. Field lines have much lower rates. The same for English Setters.

This is all genetic predisposition, whether you call it conformation or not. You amaze me.

*The latest research points to 4 things about bloat that have held true over the years from Glickman:

" 1)Raising the food dish more than doubled the risk for bloat
2)Speed of eating -Dogs rated by their owners as very fast eaters had a 38% increased risk of bloat
3)Age: The study found that risk increased by 20% with each year of age. Owners should be more alert to early signs of bloat as their dogs grow older.
4)Family History: Having a first-degree relative (parent, sibling or offspring) that had bloated increased a dog's risk by 63%."
*
Please stop with your fact-less posts, for everyone's benefit.

*"Current recommendations to decrease the incidence of bloat:

Don't breed if a first degree relative has bloated 
Gastropexy and neuter for high risk dogs 
Feed multiple meals each day 
Reduce rapid eating 
Consider behavior modifications for fearful, anxious individuals."

*
I believe this is Cornell.


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## InkedMarie

I'm not sure if you're still looking but take a look at Brothers. You can only order it from them or buy it at their store in Florida. I'm not saying it's close to raw but I'm very happy with how my dogs are doing on it. The website is Brothers Complete. Read their document on the site. You could also go to the Dog Food Reviews and Ratings | Dog Food Advisor, there are alot of responses on both of their foods there. 
Anyway, just another one to look at.


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## monster'sdad

InkedMarie said:


> I'm not sure if you're still looking but take a look at Brothers. You can only order it from them or buy it at their store in Florida. I'm not saying it's close to raw but I'm very happy with how my dogs are doing on it. The website is Brothers Complete. Read their document on the site. You could also go to the Dog Food Reviews and Ratings | Dog Food Advisor, there are alot of responses on both of their foods there.
> Anyway, just another one to look at.



Yes that is certainly curious how one pet store in florida that sells a food gets so much attention and access to that site. Who is Richard Darlington?


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## InkedMarie

monster'sdad said:


> Yes that is certainly curious how one pet store in florida that sells a food gets so much attention and access to that site. Who is Richard Darlington?


I don't know what's curious about a pet store but to answer your questions, Richard Darlington owns Brothers Complete dog food and the store in Florida; I believe with his sons. I had never heard of the food until I started reading Dog Food Advisor. I decided to try it for my two, for two different reasons. It's working great for Ginger (her issue was very frequent soft stool on any kibble I tried, whether grain inclusive or grain free). Boone's issue is paw licking. He IS licking less, which is very good for us. It's only been six weeks or so but I'm happy with the results.


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## meggels

InkedMarie said:


> I'm not sure if you're still looking but take a look at Brothers. You can only order it from them or buy it at their store in Florida. I'm not saying it's close to raw but I'm very happy with how my dogs are doing on it. The website is Brothers Complete. Read their document on the site. You could also go to the Dog Food Reviews and Ratings | Dog Food Advisor, there are alot of responses on both of their foods there.
> Anyway, just another one to look at.



Holy Jesus their allergy formula is expensive.


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## InkedMarie

meggels said:


> Holy Jesus their allergy formula is expensive.


For me, it's the same price as buying some of the Orijen's and free shipping so I can't complain. Plus, it's working.


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## meggels

InkedMarie said:


> For me, it's the same price as buying some of the Orijen's and free shipping so I can't complain. Plus, it's working.


Is the allergy one the one that you are feeding?


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## InkedMarie

meggels said:


> Is the allergy one the one that you are feeding?


Yep, for one meal. I had an hour long conversation with the owner, he and I spent most of that time discussing Boone & his current/past issues. Considering he will refund the money if it doesn't work for your dog, I felt it surely couldn't hurt to try. I'd love to have Boone stop licking but it may be behavioral but even Steve thinks he's licking less. Gingers less frequent poops are a definite improvement. If things are still going good in a few months, I may try the fish one.


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## meggels

InkedMarie said:


> Yep, for one meal. I had an hour long conversation with the owner, he and I spent most of that time discussing Boone & his current/past issues. Considering he will refund the money if it doesn't work for your dog, I felt it surely couldn't hurt to try. I'd love to have Boone stop licking but it may be behavioral but even Steve thinks he's licking less. Gingers less frequent poops are a definite improvement. If things are still going good in a few months, I may try the fish one.


That's great!

I had emailed with him several months ago and he seemed like a really nice guy, a little car-salesman'y that kinda scared me a bit, but we talked about Murph's issues.

I'm just scared to take the leap OFF of raw for Murph LOL.


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## InkedMarie

meggels said:


> That's great!
> 
> I had emailed with him several months ago and he seemed like a really nice guy, a little car-salesman'y that kinda scared me a bit, but we talked about Murph's issues.
> 
> I'm just scared to take the leap OFF of raw for Murph LOL.


Richard's a good guy, wonder if she sells cars on the side? LOL
Well, keep the food in mind, you never know.


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## meggels

I asked my friend tonight and he said that he thinks kibble is just a bad idea for murph bc of his intolerance of too many carbs 

Raw it is lol


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## CorgiPaws

meggels said:


> I asked my friend tonight and he said that he thinks kibble is just a bad idea for murph bc of his intolerance of too many carbs
> 
> Raw it is lol


As a raw feeder, obviously I have my opinions on what is best, but I DO think it's possible to have happy, healthy dogs on kibble as well. 
That said, I DO think that for dogs like Murphy and Grissom and any other dog who has proven to have serious issues with carbohydrate loads, I would agree with your decision completely and say he probably should never be taken off of raw.


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## meggels

CorgiPaws said:


> As a raw feeder, obviously I have my opinions on what is best, but I DO think it's possible to have happy, healthy dogs on kibble as well.
> That said, I DO think that for dogs like Murphy and Grissom and any other dog who has proven to have serious issues with carbohydrate loads, I would agree with your decision completely and say he probably should never be taken off of raw.


Ageed. Abbie is very happy and healthy (never been to the vet except for a routine shot/wellness exam) on kibble. 

Murph did fine on kibble UNTIL his 6 month old rabies shot  And then he had several ear infections. He has been on premade raw for probably a year or a bit more now, and no ear infections since.


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## meggels

meggels said:


> Ageed. Abbie is very happy and healthy (never been to the vet except for a routine shot/wellness exam) on kibble.
> 
> Murph did fine on kibble UNTIL his 6 month old rabies shot  And then he had several ear infections. He has been on premade raw for probably a year or a bit more now, and no ear infections since.


My friend was actually going through with me the different premades and which ones he thinks will or will not work with Murph lol. 

I was a little stressed because Phillips Distribution stopped carrying NW Naturals (SHAKES FIST ANGRILY) but my friend can still get it direcrly from NW Naturals, and buys in large quantities because he sells so much of it. 

I threw out Oma's Pride and Bravo for possible alternatives, and he said to stay away probably because their carb levels would still probably be a bit high for Murph, long term.

So, NW Naturals it is lol. He does great on the chicken/salmon, turkey and bison.


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## CorgiPaws

meggels said:


> My friend was actually going through with me the different premades and which ones he thinks will or will not work with Murph lol.
> 
> I was a little stressed because Phillips Distribution stopped carrying NW Naturals (SHAKES FIST ANGRILY) but my friend can still get it direcrly from NW Naturals, and buys in large quantities because he sells so much of it.
> 
> I threw out Oma's Pride and Bravo for possible alternatives, and he said to stay away probably because their carb levels would still probably be a bit high for Murph, long term.
> 
> So, NW Naturals it is lol. He does great on the chicken/salmon, turkey and bison.


I use their Bison on occasion just to throw in some added variety. I buy 25lbs at a time in their bulk packaging, and it comes out to be not much over $2/lb, which I pay for other meats anyway ... but of course that's wholesale.


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## AdrianVall

Hey guys! A bit of an update.. (by the way.. this thread is FANTASTIC and I almost feel it should be made a sticky so that others don't need to post the same topic anymore  )

I fed them the Orijen for a total of 2, maybe 3 days. I just couldn't do it anymore. Why you ask?

--- I QUICKLY got tired of seeing the cow sized dung piles of poo from my mastiff and boxer all throughout the backyard in just a matter of 2 days. It was crazy. I've just gotten so spoiled with small, shitzu sized piles of poo from raw that dried up and turned to dust in a day or two.

--- Water consumption. W-O-W. Their water consumption went up TREMENDOUSLY. With raw, I usually fill up the water bowl maybe once a day. With the kibble, I was filling it up 4-5 times a day. My house got MESSY, soooooooooooo quick! As you all know, Mastiffs drool a LOT, especially when drinking water.. so that drove me NUTS.

--- Lack of interest in eating the kibble. My boxer ate is with GUSTO.. but, my mastiff, who's always been a picky eater, just had no interest in it. I literally had to put a couple pieces in his mouth to get him to try it.. once he tried it, he would eat it VERY slowly. The 2 or 3 times he ate kibble, I had to do this each time.

So, as much as I hate it, and all the work involved, I WILL be sticking with raw! 

Thanks so much for the help guys. I greatly appreciated it!


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