# A fight started because of Serenity, over the bed??



## Tahlz (Sep 15, 2011)

Today Sunny and Serenity got in to a fight over the bed (I guess? When Serenity started growling, Sunny wasn't on the bed). I was cleaning my room and Serenity was laying on the bed, Sunny was beside me, on the ground, looking around. I heard Serenity making light growls but it seemed to be when I walked past her so I THOUGHT she was growling at me. I tested her out and found out it wasn't towards me. Sunny then jumped on to the bed and her attitude wasn't to friendly. I may get slack for this but I did record what she was doing to show others to get better advice. I had planned on separating them but after I turned the camera off, they fought. It was easy to separate them so no harm done. I kicked Sunny out after that and kept Serenity inside. After 10 or so minutes, I brought Sunny back inside and she started acting as she did in the recording, I moved her away from him. He stayed laying on the couch, she was away from him but her full attention was on him, I could see she wanted to have a go at him. I put them both outside then and they were fine. 

I did just bring them both inside, Serenity was on a leash though. They were both fine but I had kongs put up (going to give the kongs to them) so the smell could have been distracting them. What can I do to work on making sure this doesn't happen again?

If it does keep happening, how should I correct her and place her on the floor and not allow her back on the bed/couch?

I like my dogs being able to sleep together. Sunny sleeps under the covers, at the end of the bed. Serenity like to sleep beside me or sometimes on the couch/chair, it depends on her mood I guess. It's winter here soon and it gets freezing in my room, to stay warm the dogs will sleep under the covers and I would hate to put Serenity in the crate in Winter, it wont be very fair. I think they'll be fine or if I manage them, I should have minor issues. 

I've just let them together after the kongs and they are perfectly fine now so I don't understand what set Serenity off the first time. Right now they are both laying next to each ether/cuddling, beside me on the bed.

I hope i can get advice for next time this happens so I can handle to properly.

Thanks.

Here is a video to show what happened before the fight. I am showing this because they didn't full out go after one another.


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## Tahlz (Sep 15, 2011)

The fight happened a few hours back, just thought I may add that in. I just don't understand why she started growling when he was standing around doing nothing, away from her. She had a issue the 2nd time and now she is perfectly happy and all lovely with him on the bed/couch. Right now, Sunny is curled up under the blanket and Serenity is laying beside me without a issue. Only thing i can even slightly guess is he was standing close to the chair she likes and she will fight him over sometimes but those issues ended months ago. She only recently started liking that chair again but there has been no issues yet because he doesn't go near her when she's on her chair.


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## Tahlz (Sep 15, 2011)

My question:

If she was resource guarding:*

Why was she doing it earlier but she's not doing it now?*


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Looks like you've got one very submissive dog and another that's being a jackass.

My trainer told our entire class on the first day that we should never let our dogs sleep with us. I think you should immediately take away bed/couch privileges. 

Also, the second Serenity started doing that you should have thrown her off the bed!!

I have no other suggestions; I do know that if Rebel were to ever growl or even look sideways at Snorkels while they were on the bed, he wouldn't be back on the bed.


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## bridget246 (Oct 26, 2011)

It isn't 100% positive by any means. Here is my method. I don't allow growls, snapping, or resource hogging. Share it, or lose it. Snap at someone and you will quickly find yourself on the floor. Bridget found this out pretty quickly, Molly hasn't caught on yet. I'm not going to hurt them. But I will have them a stay on their side. It is only for about minute at the longest. In my opinion a minute is more than long enough for a dog to get the point. 

I get Molly on her back or on the floor by simply scolding her with finger pointing followed by a stay. Bridget, she is a little more headstrong so sometimes it takes a light push and she gets the point of what I want. I haven't had to do that to Bridget in 2 days. Molly was in trouble twice last night.


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## CavePaws (Jan 25, 2011)

Not allowing growling is the #1 way to lose your dogs warning signals and have them go straight into a snap/bite. You HAVE to allow them to communicate like dogs or you are forcing them to communicate in unnatural ways (ie: skipping warning signals and going straight into physical aggression) 

What you have here is one dog wanting to play and another saying, "No, stop, I don't want to play or interact" This wasn't over territory at all. What you should do is separate them when you see this happening. Do make them get off the bed, that is being proactive - not reactive, but whatever you do don't scold for growling. Neutrally take them to separate areas. 

The answer to your question is no, she is not resource guarding and she is not acting territorial. She was saying "No, I don't want to play or interact" and the other dog was not getting it. That is why the fight happened, not because she wanted the bed to herself.

There is no solid, "cookie cutter" reason you shouldn't allow your dogs on the bed unless you don't want the dogs on the bed for your own reasons. Allowing your dogs onto the bed isn't a one way street to territorial aggression or resource guarding. All of my dogs are allowed on my bed, and guess what, the only downside I've had from it is getting mud all over my heets and having to wash them all the time. You should teach and "Off" command, which gives you the option of removing them from the bed.

Also - What happened during the fight? Just wondering!


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## brandypup (Jan 23, 2012)

Totaly agree- youhave to let dogs talk dog language.


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

I 100% agree with Kelly!

Leo will react to Rhett or Keeva jumping onto "his" couch the same way when he doesn't want to play....because I don't stop him from lifting his lip ad snapping when needed they have learned that if he gives them "the eye" to leave him alone....this he doesn't get bothered when he doesn't want to be, and they are more polite for it!:wink: 
(Also, he never reacts this way when him and a human are on the couch together....just when he is alone!)

However if they weren't to follow thru and react properly to his warnings I would be separating them and putting my self in charge. 

I don't stop snarls, at least not when they are "alone"(no human sitting/standing next to them) as I bealive that they need to be able to naturally communicate...my house is ever so much louder for it...but ah well!!:tongue:


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## bridget246 (Oct 26, 2011)

I don't stop all growls. Just the ones I know that are right before a snap. There are some growls that are playful. It is just the ones that come before the snap. I like to stop them before they happen. I know Bridget pretty well. I'm also learning a lot about Molly. Neither are big non serious growlers. They can still have fun during play without growling and snapping at each other.


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## xchairity_casex (Oct 8, 2011)

to tell you honestly i dont think she was guarding the bed at all.
how old is sunny? is he younger then serenity? becuase her behavior and his beahvior (to me) seem like mother/puppy

is she going nito season or perhapes having a false pregnacy?IMO it seems as though she is getting annoyed at his puppy antics she acts as though she is trying to groom him/calm him and although he is in a submissive position he is useing his paws to push her away and its almost as if she is telling him to stop.

i am by no means a dog behaviorlist and have not seen somthing like this before but that is what my brain is telling me.

which it makes me wonder if she is not going thru a false pregnancy or in season if shes not been fixed :/
i have seen dogs who were in false pregnancies who would protect an area like that but not strongly towards a younger dog (my bfs freinds had a very old female and a very young male the female would go thru false pregnancies and guard under the porch she would growl at the younger male but at the same time attempt to be "motherly" towards him

but i really donot see resource guarding her shes acting like a mother dog toward one of her pups :/ :/


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## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

I totally agree with Kelly too. The brown and black dog gave the other dog all the warning signals in the world before it felt like it had to take action. The other dog chose to ignore them. I'd be suprised too if the fight was nothing more than a bit of noise, a little squabble.
I've seen Mollie do this heaps of times with the younger dogs. If they are in her face and she's had enough, she'll wrinkle her nose, show her teeth, make exaggerated growling noises and just look right brassed off. If the other dog doesn't listen, and she'll let this go on for minutes, then she'll snap at it, but will never make contact, just a pissed off bark noise and it's over. I never tell her off because then I'm taking away the way she communicates. I had to explain this to the other dog's owners at first as they thought Mol was being aggressive, but they understand it now and see that Mol doesn't mean any harm, she just wants to be left alone at that point in time.


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## Tahlz (Sep 15, 2011)

Thank you for all your replys, it greatly appreciated! I have a better idea what to do next time this happens.*

CavePaws; Thanks for exposing what went on! It did look like Sunny wanted to play to me as well. I thought resource guarding because everyone else said it so I'm glad to hear it wasn't that. I also thought resource guarding because she guarded me A LOT when she was younger, if other pups/dogs came near me and when on her yellow couch, I had a problem for awhile, if she was on my lap and he came near, she'd snap at him. I nipped that in the butt but she does have a possibility to guard at times but more so if I'm next to her.

*After a bit more growling, I'm not sure who started the actually fight but Sunny jumped on his feet, Serenity was sort of on her side/stomach. They were fighting that way before I picked Sunny up since he was easier to grab. I had to hold him up a bit to give Serenity time to cool down. Did that answer your question? I'm not sure if I answer your question properly about them fighting.

xcharity_casex:

Sunny is older then Serenity. Sunny is now 5. Serenity is a year and 6months. Sunny is my happy go lucky, puppy like dog with a fun fun attitude about him. Serenity has never really been puppy like, she is more mature then him, she is also my fearful dog but she enjoys having fun but she can have a attitude to her. Serenity is spayed so no season or false pregnancy for her, thankfully.

My next question is: Does anyone have any idea why she was growling at him before he was on the bed? When it all started, she was randomly growling (lightly, no teeth showing) but Sunny wasn't on the bed, he was on the floor a few good steps away from her and he wasn't looking at her.


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

Probably just warning him off before hand - mine would have been removed from the bed or furniture at first growl. I am glad there were no serious injuries.


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## CavePaws (Jan 25, 2011)

Tahlz, it is sort of hard to tell why she was growling without seeing the situation. Dogs have a very interesting way of communicating without looking directly at each other. It could very well be that she just did not want his puppy antics near her - at that point it is possible she could have been guarding the bed, I just can't tell without seeing that on video. However, if she was truly guarding the bed I'm pretty sure she would have escalated the fight as soon as he got onto the bed - meaning she would not have tolerated any of the face smacking - he wouldn't have even been close to able to do that.

What you can find peace in is that dogs are very intentional creatures. They know exactly what they are doing and what they intend to do before they do it. If she didn't bite him, she never meant to bite him. If she did bite him and didn't injure him, she didn't mean to hurt him, only scare him into leaving her alone. That means she has some wonderful bite inhibition. If you truly do have problems with her acting territorial then you do need to make sure to remove her from the situation as soon as you see a problem starting. A good way to gauge that is when she is on the bed, scanning the area, her ears and eyes will be moving around, she will be sniffing, etc - then your other dog enters the picture - as soon as she stops scanning and starts staring you want to get her off the bed and out of the room quickly. Don't scold her, simply remove her from the situation. That is what I mean by being proactive.

What I meant about the fight was did she actually bite him or was it just noise and snapping? Generally the noisier the dogs are the less intense the fight is, what you never want to hear is a quiet fight, that is when a lot of damage is being done.

My dogs do something very similar to what yours were doing, but it is play. They lay down and neck fight each other, you can tell the play growls from the real growls. It's definitely a know thy dog sort of thing.


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## xchairity_casex (Oct 8, 2011)

> xcharity_casex:
> 
> Sunny is older then Serenity. Sunny is now 5. Serenity is a year and 6months. Sunny is my happy go lucky, puppy like dog with a fun fun attitude about him. Serenity has never really been puppy like, she is more mature then him, she is also my fearful dog but she enjoys having fun but she can have a attitude to her. Serenity is spayed so no season or false pregnancy for her, thankfully.


like i said im not expert by any means but that is just what my eyes and brain were telling me she could have been guarding the bed i dont know this dog personally so its very hard to say. but if you notice at one point in the video sunny begins licking her mouth and she opens it as thou she is trying regurgitate food for him which i noticed a little later which is also somthing that makes me think shes acting motherly.

good luck with them glad no one was seriosuly hurt and hope it doesnth appen anymore!


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## Itty bitty Kitty (Dec 26, 2011)

I'm no expert here and I certainly lack the experience but I think it really was just this sort of dialogue:

" Don't....touch me. Hey! I said HEY! BOY! What did I tell you!?"


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## Itty bitty Kitty (Dec 26, 2011)

MollyWoppy said:


> I totally agree with Kelly too. The brown and black dog gave the other dog all the warning signals in the world before it felt like it had to take action. The other dog chose to ignore them. I'd be suprised too if the fight was nothing more than a bit of noise, a little squabble.
> I've seen Mollie do this heaps of times with the younger dogs. If they are in her face and she's had enough, she'll wrinkle her nose, show her teeth, make exaggerated growling noises and just look right brassed off. If the other dog doesn't listen, and she'll let this go on for minutes, then she'll snap at it, but will never make contact, just a pissed off bark noise and it's over. I never tell her off because then I'm taking away the way she communicates. I had to explain this to the other dog's owners at first as they thought Mol was being aggressive, but they understand it now and see that Mol doesn't mean any harm, she just wants to be left alone at that point in time.


Out of curiosity Mol, would the same apply to a cat and dog relationship? I'm all for letting dogs communicate with eachother but I'd be worried about allowing the dog to snarl and growl at a cat. I'm guessing it would be acceptable to disallow any bark, snarl, growl or snapping towards the cat and encourage submission?


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