# How Much Fat is Too Much Fat



## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

i'm not even sure this is an issue...kind of like asking how much water is too much water, although people can die if they drink too much, but that's really the extreme.

the dog's protein has fat, although not all cuts are high in fat....
we give emu oil, an animal oil, so that's pure fat..

we also give a seed mix that is high in fat...

is there a guideline?


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

Re, most dog food if I remember was about 10% fat? That is a good amount especially when fed raw. We probably give a little more than that now but not so much.


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## sassymaxmom (Dec 7, 2008)

I read to feed to bowel tolerance. 

Weight gain is another issue I need to be concerned with. If I cut back the weight of the meal if Max gains weight I am dropping the amount of protein he gets.

I am comfortable giving Max '85% lean' hamburger for instance. If he only ate it for a meal he would be getting 600 calories and 52 grams of protein. If I gave him '75% lean' hamburger he would be getting 800 calories and 44 grams of protein in 10 ounces. Since I would have to feed him only 7.5 ounces to give his usual 600 calories of the high fat hamburger he would only get 33 grams of protein, less than a gram per pound of dog. I am not comfortable doing that.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

i think i'm feeding more than 10%, although i didn't break it down....

then again, some is animal fat, some is plant fat...but fat is fat, no?


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## Khan (Jan 17, 2010)

I may be way off base; but I think the fat issue is kinda like the bone issue. Some dogs do just fine with 10%+ while others may need less. I know that in Khan's case he does not do well with that much. I found that by removing most of the skin from the quarters he has much better poop, than when I was leaving it on. 
Just my 2 cents.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Not all fats are the same. There are lots of different kinds of fats, some are better than others depending on what you are talking about.

Oil that is produced from animals like fish and emu oil are completely usable by a dog. The oils in seeds are only usable to dogs if they are extracted. Give a dog a whole flax seed, and it will come out the way it went in. I just see no use in giving a dog plant based oils when animal oils are completely usable to dogs in their natural state. Feed a whole chunk of emu and the dog will digest every part of it, unlike a flax seed.

As far as amounts I think its also an individual basis. Some of my girls could eat straight lamb fat while we are butchering without any diarrhea and others will get the runs or gas. BUT I think that with most dogs, their tolerance can be built up slowly over time. If I fed straight lamb fat to my girls on their first day of raw feeding they would have all gotten very ill, but now...not a big deal.


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## chowder (Sep 7, 2008)

I think it depends on the dog, just like with people. Rocky has a higher metabolism then Shade so he gets more fat in his diet. With Shade, I have to cut off any extra fat and skin just to try and get a little weight off of him. I can't keep cutting his portions down (he'd start eating socks again) so I'm trying to increase exercise and eliminate most fat from his diet. 

I think you could probably eliminate too much fat, but it would probably have to be extreme. There will always be fat in the meat. You could add too much fat with too many oils, but I think you would see some kind of negative impact before any long term damage was done (diarrhea probably, but I'm just guessing). 

If you listen to some nutritionists, they are of the opinion that dogs can't digest plant oils so it doesn't matter how much fat you give them in the form of plant oil. Lew Olson specifically mentions this often. Whether or not to agree with it is a whole 'nother topic!


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

chowder said:


> I think it depends on the dog, just like with people. Rocky has a higher metabolism then Shade so he gets more fat in his diet. With Shade, I have to cut off any extra fat and skin just to try and get a little weight off of him. I can't keep cutting his portions down (he'd start eating socks again) so I'm trying to increase exercise and eliminate most fat from his diet.
> 
> I think you could probably eliminate too much fat, but it would probably have to be extreme. There will always be fat in the meat. You could add too much fat with too many oils, but I think you would see some kind of negative impact before any long term damage was done (diarrhea probably, but I'm just guessing).
> 
> If you listen to some nutritionists, they are of the opinion that dogs can't digest plant oils so it doesn't matter how much fat you give them in the form of plant oil. Lew Olson specifically mentions this often. Whether or not to agree with it is a whole 'nother topic!


everything i read says dogs cannot digest plant oils.....i no longer believe it. the seed mixture we give our dogs is all plant material and bubba grew fur. he didn't grow fur because of emu oil and his diet pretty much remains the same. he now has a lush coat of fur.....and what i see, i believe....so i have to challenge this one.....maybe lew and i will have to duke it out LOL...

nah, i'm kidding. but i have to believe what i see....right?


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## chowder (Sep 7, 2008)

magicre said:


> everything i read says dogs cannot digest plant oils.....i no longer believe it. the seed mixture we give our dogs is all plant material and bubba grew fur. he didn't grow fur because of emu oil and his diet pretty much remains the same. he now has a lush coat of fur.....and what i see, i believe....so i have to challenge this one.....maybe lew and i will have to duke it out LOL...
> 
> nah, i'm kidding. but i have to believe what i see....right?


I'm with you on this one, I believe what I can see and feel, and I'm open to almost anything new if you can give me a reason for it (with at least some science to back it up..... no crystals and pyramids!). This could be why I have so many 'real' books and so many 'bookmarks' on my computer! If the seeds are working for you, then it is something that I am willing to try. First hand results from a RELIABLE source is worth a lot to me. 

You can go ahead and duke it out with Lew :boxing: While I do think she has some good information in her book, like a lot of other 'experts', she can be very regimented in her thinking. It comes across more on the message boards.


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## BoxerParty (Nov 9, 2011)

magicre said:


> everything i read says dogs cannot digest plant oils.....i no longer believe it. the seed mixture we give our dogs is all plant material and bubba grew fur. he didn't grow fur because of emu oil and his diet pretty much remains the same. he now has a lush coat of fur.....and what i see, i believe....so i have to challenge this one.....maybe lew and i will have to duke it out LOL...
> 
> nah, i'm kidding. but i have to believe what i see....right?



I'm a strong believer in treating dogs (and people) as individuals. I learned this lesson while training my pups - it took me a LONG time to bond with my younger dog, because I was making specious assumptions about her based on my experiences training and bonding with Malcolm.

So, if feeding a seed mixture improved your dog's coat problem, then IT WORKS (for him), whatever the "theory" about such things suggests.


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## JayJayisme (Aug 2, 2009)

http://dogfoodchat.com/forum/raw-feeding/11547-fat-vs-protein-ratio.html


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

chowder said:


> I'm with you on this one, I believe what I can see and feel, and I'm open to almost anything new if you can give me a reason for it (with at least some science to back it up..... no crystals and pyramids!). This could be why I have so many 'real' books and so many 'bookmarks' on my computer! If the seeds are working for you, then it is something that I am willing to try. First hand results from a RELIABLE source is worth a lot to me.
> 
> You can go ahead and duke it out with Lew :boxing: While I do think she has some good information in her book, like a lot of other 'experts', she can be very regimented in her thinking. It comes across more on the message boards.


LOL...i'm certainly kidding about Lew. she knows more than i do, and i have her book.

i just know what i see and what i see is a dog getting plants and now has fur.

i have to go with what works....and apparently dogs can absorb plants.


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## Filth (Oct 5, 2011)

BoxerParty said:


> I'm a strong believer in treating dogs (and people) as individuals. I learned this lesson while training my pups - it took me a LONG time to bond with my younger dog, because I was making specious assumptions about her based on my experiences training and bonding with Malcolm.
> 
> So, if feeding a seed mixture improved your dog's coat problem, then IT WORKS (for him), whatever the "theory" about such things suggests.


I'm a strong believer, too. 

What I would like to add that we tested seeds mixture on more than 50 dogs(I know surely about 50 of them, but there was few more). It has worked and shown skin and hair improvement for every single one of them. Seven of them were boxers(if that means something to you), including my female boxer. That can not be coincidence. So it doesn't really have to do anything with bubba, it has more likely to do with dogs in general. You should try it, too.


How much fat is too much is hard to tell. It depends how the dog was raised, and what the system got used to. Almost every meat part has some fat on it, so if you feed big variety of meats(and different parts) your dog will get as much fat as needed. I never take the skin off, just don't see a reason for it. It is the equal natural part of animal and dogs should eat it.

Dog's stool will pretty much tell you how much is too much.


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## BoxerParty (Nov 9, 2011)

Filth said:


> I'm a strong believer, too.
> 
> What I would like to add that we tested seeds mixture on more than 50 dogs(I know surely about 50 of them, but there was few more). It has worked and shown skin and hair improvement for every single one of them. Seven of them were boxers(if that means something to you), including my female boxer. That can not be coincidence. So it doesn't really have to do anything with bubba, it has more likely to do with dogs in general. You should try it, too.



Interesting! Is this a valuable addition even if my guys don't have any skin/hair concerns?


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## Filth (Oct 5, 2011)

BoxerParty said:


> Interesting! Is this a valuable addition even if my guys don't have any skin/hair concerns?


Seeds are always valuable addition. Some problems with hair and skin are caused by food dogs ate in the past(or did not eat), so if dog doesn't have any skin and hair concerns now, it doesn't mean that it won't have any in the future. Seeds bring healthy skin firstly, and then shiny hair. Those are connected, and most of the hair problems are caused by unhealthy skin. Seeds can not be harmful, so if feeding them doesn't show you results now, cause skin and hair are already in good condition, it will at least keep them that way and show results in the future. How dogs get older they have more and more skin/hair problems, that's why it is important to feed their skin and hair throughout their lives.


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## Ivy (Mar 16, 2011)

What is it in the seeds that help keep the skin and coat healthy? Just curious :smile:


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## Filth (Oct 5, 2011)

Ivy said:


> What is it in the seeds that help keep the skin and coat healthy? Just curious :smile:


Omega 3 and omega 6 fatty acids. Which are also contained in fish(most in salmon, mackerel, herring, etc.). I always mention that combination of seeds, fish and olive oil besides great skin/hair has many more benefits for a dog like maintaining bone health, reproductive system, regulates metabolism...those thing are good for us, too(and always recommended for skin problems and many others).


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## Atila (Oct 15, 2011)

I've put my 4 year old GSD on 'Filths' seeds mixture for 2 months now. He had grass alergy. No hot spots, no extra hair loss etc, just scratching himself constantly. In these past 2 months that I added seeds in his diet he stopped scratching, his fur is much thicker and shinier and sheds so much less. It's great. A friend of mine started adding seeds also to her perfectly healthy Swiss shep and has seen the same kind of improvement as I did. 

P.S. I have seen nothing of the seed in his stool yet, so....


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## Kat (Jul 12, 2011)

Its interesting how many different things people are using to supplement for their dogs. Im going to be ordering some emu oil for Ruby to see how it works on her


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

Kat said:


> Its interesting how many different things people are using to supplement for their dogs. Im going to be ordering some emu oil for Ruby to see how it works on her


it is interesting, tho we aren't using emu oil to replace salmon oil.....besides, my dogs eat fish.....and mostly grass fed beef....so we're pretty good in that department.

i just read an article on coconut oil....i wish i could remember the site...it's a face book page. i'll see if i can find it....i was reading about dr. dodd's vaccination thing and one page led to another....

it did do a lot of good for malia's dandruff that she gets every year....but i rub her down with it....if she ingests it...it's because it happens to be coconut oil day. we tend to rotate our oils so they get enough fat but not too much.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

Atila said:


> I've put my 4 year old GSD on 'Filths' seeds mixture for 2 months now. He had grass alergy. No hot spots, no extra hair loss etc, just scratching himself constantly. In these past 2 months that I added seeds in his diet he stopped scratching, his fur is much thicker and shinier and sheds so much less. It's great. A friend of mine started adding seeds also to her perfectly healthy Swiss shep and has seen the same kind of improvement as I did.
> 
> P.S. I have seen nothing of the seed in his stool yet, so....


the only time i see seeds is when i don't break the shell during the grinding process....other than that, looks just like a nice solid stool to me.


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