# Which is better BYB or Pet Store?



## lauren43 (Feb 6, 2011)

Neither I know. 

But there is this guy at work that is recently in the market for a boxer puppy. They had a chance with a BYB for $400 but they missed that opportunity. Yes price is important, no they don't care where the dog comes from or it's lines they are just looking for a "look"...

I started by trying to talk him out of the BYBs in the area and convince him to go the rescue route (there are literally no "good" breeders in this area)...and since its all a risk why not get a rescue. Well he did make a good point here, boxers are not a breed known for longevity, therefore he wants a puppy.

Well after they "lost" the $400 pup, his wife has been on a mission and she is looking at pet store puppies. I want to rip my hair out. I told him if he got a dog from a pet store I would no longer talk to him (big loss there lol)... Since I know he would be convinced by a lower price I've been on the search for a breeder..and one relatively nearby because I doubt they will travel too far.

Finally to make matters even worse...they want a black masked fawn female! Seriously?!?! Lol

So this just got me thinking...is a BYB any better than a pet store? I guess some of them could be depending on the person. I found one about 2hrs away that is probably as good as it gets out here but I don't know what they have available or their prices (I have a feeling they will be in the $1000's because these dogs are being shown and do have titles)...


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## Celt (Dec 27, 2010)

Around here, we have some decent byb. Most breed to "old line" conformations (shepeherds with backs that don't slope, daschunds who can jump, etc) which wouldn't do well in most shows cause they don't fit the "standard". Of course, there are some nitwits too though most of them are breeding pitties, tea cup or "designer" dogs. You have to look into a byb to see what kind of "breeder" they are, not just do they show cause I know of a few "show" kennels that put out a lot of pups cause that's their business.


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

They both are destructive to the breed of choice........Health testing, temperament testing, hearing tests etc. Hate all BYB's and Pet stores.


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## FBarnes (Feb 17, 2013)

I they are looking for cheap, a pet store isn't going to be in their price range. Rescues have puppies. I don't know why they think they don't. Just look on petfinder, you can narrow to puppies. I just did a search in the syracuse NY area and came up with 7 female boxer puppies, and they looked fawn with black faces.


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## lauren43 (Feb 6, 2011)

Yes FBarnes, pet stores are out of their range. He wants the "best bang for his buck" but the wife keeps begging. I think the boy that's at the pet store right now is over $1000 and he said if they drop his price they will go get him.

The ones I saw on PF didn't look pure bred to me?


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## bett (Mar 15, 2012)

if he's gonna spend that kind of money at a pet store he ought to have his head removed, and then examined. it's a puppy mill dog. doesnt he know that.
and a byb? why not go to a rescue or a breeder for that matter.

if the wife needs immediate gratification, let her get stuffed animal.


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

lauren43 said:


> Yes FBarnes, pet stores are out of their range. He wants the "best bang for his buck" but the wife keeps begging. I think the boy that's at the pet store right now is over $1000 and he said if they drop his price they will go get him.
> 
> The ones I saw on PF didn't look pure bred to me?


So, if they cannot afford the price then how are they going to care for the dog? Dogs aren't cheap at any price, it is their care and upkeep that is expensive. Hope this dog doesn't end up on Craigslist after they discover how much work is involved


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## FBarnes (Feb 17, 2013)

Do they know that boxers are prone to allergies? Have they done any research at all? I find this very sad because so many people buy a dog in just this manner. Maybe they are mixed on petfinder? I'm no dog breed expert that's for sure. But if they keep looking the dog they want will pop up. Of course they want something cheap right this minute, so that's what they'll probably get - a dog with poor breeding and alot of problems who will one day end up on petfinder, craigslist, or worse.


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## lauren43 (Feb 6, 2011)

Yes they had a boxer in the past. She just passed away a couple of months ago. And yes they can afford that price, he has a great job, but they don't want to spend that kind of money.

Once ppl have there mind on something there isn't much anyone can do to sway them. You should hear me at work going on a rampage about how much I hate pet stores and he just laughs at me. Saying he's "saving" it or that not all pet store puppies are from puppy mills...


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## lauren43 (Feb 6, 2011)

FBarnes said:


> Do they know that boxers are prone to allergies? Have they done any research at all? I find this very sad because so many people buy a dog in just this manner. Maybe they are mixed on petfinder? I'm no dog breed expert that's for sure. But if they keep looking the dog they want will pop up. Of course they want something cheap right this minute, so that's what they'll probably get - a dog with poor breeding and alot of problems who will one day end up on petfinder, craigslist, or worse.


I told him that if he gets that puppy from the pet store I hope he's one of the few that does not end up with miles and miles of health issues...


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## Jacksons Mom (Jun 13, 2010)

Honestly, while I know neither is desirable, I don't think ALL BYB's are "bad". But BYB can come with multiple definitions, too, and many different types. It's kind of a broad description. Not to mention, there's really only a select few of 'show' breeders that I really approve of either. I think you're going to find health problems with both.

But for example I got Jackson from a BYB in Baltimore City. Was she breeding to standard? Nope (all one has to do is look at my giant Yorkie to see that, LOL). Was she doing it for the money? Probably. I gave her $550 and she sold 4 or 5 pups from that litter alone. But was her dog (the female bred) being mis-treated? No, as far as I could tell, she was taken care of and was a family pet. The puppies were raised in her bedroom, and spent every night beside her bed until they went into their new homes. They weren't really socialized properly, but as far as I know and could tell, they weren't ever mistreated. And while it's unfortunate that her family pet was being used as a money-maker, at least she's not rotting away somewhere in some disgusting filthy cage with other animals doing the same year after year. Puppy millers could care less about the welfare of any of those poor animals. So even though in the future I wouldn't choose to support a 'breeder' like Jackson's, at least I know that his mama dog was living a decent life as a family pet with a woman who did care a bit, even if she had no clue what she was doing and shouldn't have been breeding.

But really sometimes I see well-respected breeders who I don't approve much of either. I would never buy a dog from a breeder that had a 'kennel' - it's just not my thing. But it doesn't necessarily mean they're bad, I just want a dog who grew up in their house, as a family member, more of a home environment. 

But supporting a pet store, where you know your dog is coming from a puppy mill, is just... horrible to me. Mainly because of the poor dogs that are left behind to continue breeding over and over again. And the moment you buy a pup and empty that cage, another is going to fill it, and the cycle continues.


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## Jacksons Mom (Jun 13, 2010)

lauren43 said:


> Yes they had a boxer in the past. She just passed away a couple of months ago. And yes they can afford that price, he has a great job, but they don't want to spend that kind of money.
> 
> Once ppl have there mind on something there isn't much anyone can do to sway them. You should hear me at work going on a rampage about how much I hate pet stores and he just laughs at me. Saying he's "saving" it or that not all pet store puppies are from puppy mills...


Yup, it takes a LOT to get someone to listen. I tried to explain this to my uncle. He suddenly wanted a GSD but said "he didn't wanna spend more than $500" on the dog. I sent him a list of good breeders and explained what can happen when you get a badly-bred dog, but especially a GSD. But it didn't matter. He went to an Amish farm and picked out a random puppy. She actually has ended up being a really good dog, and he a very good owner. He's willing to spend whatever on her, he loves that dog to death, she almost needed an ACL surgery last yr that was gonna cost over $3000 and he was going to have to do it. Crate rest, and seeing a different vet though she ended up not needing it. But anyway, the thing is, sometimes you just won't change peoples mind. And it doesn't necessarily mean you're going to have a dog riddled with health and behavioral problems or that the owner will not be able to afford the every day expenses that come along with a dog...

If I'm being completely honest, I usually end up like non-standard or BYB-type dogs better in a lot of breeds.


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## GoingPostal (Sep 5, 2011)

Boxers are such an unhealthy breed there is no way I would recommend byb or pet store. Even the people I know with well bred ones tend to pop up with cancer or tumors of some sort and I know heart issues are pretty common too. Pay now or pay later imo. Most I see in rescue around here are really poor examples or whites, I looked quite a bit when we first wanted a dog but further research convinced me they are not a breed I wanted to chance health issues on with a dog of unknown origin.


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## InkedMarie (Sep 9, 2011)

Look on fb. We have a bunch of NH & surrounding towns groups with puppies. Most of these seem to be what I call hobby breeders: no testing but raised inside


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## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

lauren43 said:


> Yes FBarnes, pet stores are out of their range. He wants the "best bang for his buck" but the wife keeps begging. I think the boy that's at the pet store right now is over $1000 and he said if they drop his price they will go get him.
> 
> The ones I saw on PF didn't look pure bred to me?


If he wants the "best bang for his buck" and is willing to look at pet store Boxers then he may as well look for a reputable breeder. Boxers seem to be one of the "in" breeds right now so pet stores are selling them anywhere from $1000 to $4000. He could spend just a few hundred more than the $1000 puppy mill puppy and get a dog of MUCH higher quality.


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## Celt (Dec 27, 2010)

Sadly, I have to say that there are many breeds that I would never buy from breeders breeding to the standard which removes a vast majority of what many would consider "good" breeders. If I ever get another doxie or GSD, it would most likely come from a "byb" who bred to the "old style" conformation/temperment. Just like there are bad "show" breeders, there can be good "bybs". Some see the "new" lines as ruining their breed, most "can't" / won't show their dogs cause they'd be extremely unlikely to win and/or be ostracized (bad mouthed, insulted, etc) for having "poorly" bred dogs. A few do health testing, a lot figure if the dog can do their "job", and show no signs of "problems" figure testing isn't "worth it" (afterall, even tested dogs can "throw bad" pups). It really is up to the buyer to check out the how and why of their pup's beginnings no matter where you may get them from.


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## lauren43 (Feb 6, 2011)

I contacted this person.
Welcome to Cachet Kennels

IMO option, nothing special but some good looking dogs. She currently has two pups left. The white female which goes for $600 because she can't be registered. And a male flashy fawn at $1800, $400 extra for cropping. Things I do like, its seems they only have a few dogs that a currently breeding. While they are showing these dogs, at least they are doing something with them, not just breeding because "My female was so sweet and so beautiful we wanted to have more of her"....

Listen to me! The next thing you know I'll be buying myself a boxer!?!?!?


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## NutroGeoff (May 15, 2013)

With the rescue groups I see at Petsmart there are some really adorable puppies. I am a big proponent of recommending the groups in the stores. It would be much cheaper than going to either a dog selling pet store or a byb. That may be something for them to try.


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## SaharaNight Boxers (Jun 28, 2011)

I can just about promise that guy he will either pay for the puppy now or later, especially with Boxers. There's a lot of problems getting fixed in the breed. Cachet is good, I've seen her dogs around here. If you want a few clubs to contact to try to find a better price for the guy I can give you a few to contact. There are a bunch of responsible breeders in your area, some with lower prices than others. 

If he even wants to start talking about longetivity he better get a pup from a responsible breeder or he could not be looking at much time with his pup.


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## lauren43 (Feb 6, 2011)

I thank everyone for their opinions and suggestions...as luck would have it, he decided he wanted a car more than a dog! Couldn't ask for better news lol!!


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## BrownieM (Aug 30, 2010)

My vote is always for responsible breeders. What about rescue? There must be a Boxer Rescue organization, correct?


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## FBarnes (Feb 17, 2013)

lauren43 said:


> I thank everyone for their opinions and suggestions...as luck would have it, he decided he wanted a car more than a dog! Couldn't ask for better news lol!!


Well that is the best thing I've heard all day!


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## SuperPug (Mar 5, 2013)

lauren43 said:


> I thank everyone for their opinions and suggestions...as luck would have it, he decided he wanted a car more than a dog! Couldn't ask for better news lol!!


I totally agree. While a car is much more expensive than a dog. I definitely would prefer him to get a car over a dog.


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## doggiedad (Jan 23, 2011)

you found a byb'er that has dogs with titles and they're shown?



lauren43 said:


> Neither I know.
> 
> But there is this guy at work that is recently in the market for a boxer puppy. They had a chance with a BYB for $400 but they missed that opportunity. Yes price is important, no they don't care where the dog comes from or it's lines they are just looking for a "look"...
> 
> ...


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## Herzo (Feb 5, 2011)

Ok yes this is good news but I'll once again be the wet rag. As soon as the new where's off the new car the wife will want a dog again. Yes please Lauren tell us when this happens.

Hope I'm wrong.


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## porchpotty (Aug 10, 2011)

That's good news. If in the future, you would consider getting a dog again, go for reputable breeders and your local animal club would be able to give some good recommendation.


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## lauren43 (Feb 6, 2011)

doggiedad said:


> you found a byb'er that has dogs with titles and they're shown?


They aren't necessarily a BYB'er but I don't consider someone a quality breeder just because their dogs have been shown and have titles. There are many show dog breeders that own full kennels. The dogs breed and spend much of their time there outside the family environment...and truthfully that is not my cup of tea.



porchpotty said:


> That's good news. If in the future, you would consider getting a dog again, go for reputable breeders and your local animal club would be able to give some good recommendation.


I most likely will never be able to get a dog from a breeder as my requirements for said breeder are overly stringent (perhaps liz fits the bill and Linsey too). Therefore most if not all of my dogs will be rescues. Thanks for the advise but this thread was about one of my co-workers...

Herzo-- I will definitely update this thread if it turns out they decided they do in fact end up with a dog by the end of the summer.


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