# Canidae ALS or Acana wild prairie



## agalf (Dec 17, 2011)

I've a 13 weeks old male boxer puppy named Dan. He have been eating Royal Canin from the breeder, but I'm not a huge fan of Royal Canin so I don't want him to continue to eat it. Also he poops around 6 times every day from it... But now to the problem, we live in Minsk, Belarus, so we don't have so many options. We have Hill's, Purina, Royal Canin etc but I managed to find Canidae ALS and Acana. What concerns me about Canidae ALS is the protein level, maybe it's too low. I contacted Canidae about this and they said that as long as Dan get right amount of food every day it's no problem. But he don't want to eat so much, or maybe it's just Royal Canin he so dislikes. Then we also have Acana Wild Prairie, the calcium level seems OK for a puppy and I read pretty many who fed it to their puppies. But I also read about dogs that got diarrhea from so much protein. But I guess we just have to wean him over slowly. What also concerns me about Acana is the calcium level, I haven't found any maximum calcium level and Dan is considered to be a large breed puppy. 

I need to choose which one of those I should try. Does anyone have any experience of Canidae ALS or Acana Wild Prairie?


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## Unosmom (May 3, 2009)

Acana would definitely be my first choice, you can also add some digestive enzymes when you transition from old food to help break things down more efficiently and help with possible issues like gas and runny stool.


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## tem_sat (Jun 20, 2010)

I vote for Acana too. Nice to know you can get it in Belarus.


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## catahoulamom (Sep 23, 2010)

Definitely Acana! You cannot beat Champion's quality ingredients when it comes to kibble.  Just make sure to feed him less than the Royal Canin, overfeeding can cause diarrhea.


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## agalf (Dec 17, 2011)

Approximate how much food should I give him daily?


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## PDXdogmom (Jun 30, 2010)

Look at the suggest range listed on the bag for your dog's weight. Start with the lowest amount because usually dog food companies recommend way too high of quantities.


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## agalf (Dec 17, 2011)

PDXdogmom said:


> Look at the suggest range listed on the bag for your dog's weight. Start with the lowest amount because usually dog food companies recommend way too high of quantities.


According to the bag he should have around 180 gram, is that really enough for a puppy?


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## Tzubabies (Sep 27, 2011)

Acana, hands down.


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## sganow (Apr 16, 2009)

Acana is hands down the best of those you mentioned.


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## Belles Mom (Jun 24, 2011)

Canidae is actually too high in calcium for puppies, at 1.8%.


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## 1605 (May 27, 2009)

Belles Mom said:


> Canidae is actually too high in calcium for puppies, at 1.8%.


Actually, the maximum recommended percentage for puppies is 2.5%. 

However, for large breeds, it's between 1 & 1.5%.


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## Belles Mom (Jun 24, 2011)

SubMariner said:


> Actually, the maximum recommended percentage for puppies is 2.5%.
> 
> However, for large breeds, it's between 1 & 1.5%.


Where do you find that info? I have Labradors, which I consider medium sized. (Performance/conformation dogs, not the "kegs on legs" dogs"....that, ummmmm.....never mind....


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## Cranky (Dec 26, 2011)

Unosmom said:


> Acana would definitely be my first choice, you can also add some digestive enzymes when you transition from old food to help break things down more efficiently and help with possible issues like gas and runny stool.


Why would you pick Acana? Do you have any credible scientific evidence it is better? It costs twice what Canidae costs. 44lbs of Canidae is about $42.

I am dying to see all the evidence that Acana is better. While we are on the topic, what exactly are your professional credentials to make that recommendation.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Cranky said:


> Why would you pick Acana? Do you have any credible scientific evidence it is better? It costs twice what Canidae costs. 44lbs of Canidae is about $42.
> 
> I am dying to see all the evidence that Acana is better. While we are on the topic, what exactly are your professional credentials to make that recommendation.


Why are you so fricken rude? I'm dying to know.


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## Cranky (Dec 26, 2011)

I am not being rude. I want to know why Acana is better. If someone says it is I want to know why. What is the evidence? I have never seen any evidence.

Someone used the words "hands down". Why hands down?

Just curious.


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## jdatwood (Apr 13, 2009)

Cranky said:


> what exactly are your professional credentials to make that recommendation.


Why does she need professional credentials to give her opinion on a high quality dog food?

Most vets recommend some of the WORST foods on the market.. people buy it because of their "credentials" regarding pet nutrition.

Since you're asking, who are YOU and what are YOUR credentials?


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

You think someone needs to have a professional degree to voice an opinion? if you need that, you are in the wrong spot. 

The complaints I have heard about Canidae just from my memory are that it's too low in protein, gas, and it makes coats dull. People better versed and who have actually fed both of those foods will have their reasons.

Yes, you were rude. Cheaper does not always mean better, and people shouldn't be asked to pony up scientific studies or have advanced degrees to say why they think one dog food is better than another. Although there ARE people here who will furnish you the solid reasoning behind their opinions, and are much more knowledgeable than people who DO have degrees.


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## Cranky (Dec 26, 2011)

jdatwood said:


> Why does she need professional credentials to give her opinion on a high quality dog food?
> 
> Most vets recommend some of the WORST foods on the market.. people buy it because of their "credentials" regarding pet nutrition.
> 
> Since you're asking, who are YOU and what are YOUR credentials?


I am not making a recommendation. Everyone is so dead sure Acana is better. On what basis can you make a recommendation? Is this like DogFoodAdvisor.com where people read labels and say one food is better than another?? I meet many people that think they are experts but don't even know what Mastitis is.


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## Cranky (Dec 26, 2011)

Why is it too low in protein? What happened to the dogs when they ate Canidae? Did they lose muscle mass?

You realize that even sled dogs don't ever need a food with more than 32% protein. Do you know about these studies. What you read about protein levels is just marketing.


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## 1605 (May 27, 2009)

Belles Mom said:


> Where do you find that info? I have Labradors, which I consider medium sized. (Performance/conformation dogs, not the "kegs on legs" dogs"....that, ummmmm.....never mind....


AAFCO recommendations are 1%-2.5%. For large breed puppies, the lower end of the scale is generally accepted as best. I have found numerous citations on various websites, including a summation of the data here: Dog Food Standards by the AAFCO


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## jdatwood (Apr 13, 2009)

Cranky said:


> I am not making a recommendation. Everyone is so dead sure Acana is better. On what basis can you make a recommendation? Is this like DogFoodAdvisor.com where people read labels and say one food is better than another?? I meet many people that think they are experts but don't even know what Mastitis is.


Great job on ignoring my entire post. Here it is again in case you can't find it. I'd LOVE to hear your answers... 




jdatwood said:


> Why does she need professional credentials to give her opinion on a high quality dog food?
> 
> Most vets recommend some of the WORST foods on the market.. people buy it because of their "credentials" regarding pet nutrition.
> 
> Since you're asking, who are YOU and what are YOUR credentials?


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## Cranky (Dec 26, 2011)

jdatwood said:


> Great job on ignoring my entire post. Here it is again in case you can't find it. I'd LOVE to hear your answers...


Why is everyone so sensitive. I want to know why Acana is better. In my world, if someone recommends to another that they should spend twice as much to feed their dog, then there should be a reason.

In school, if you are writing a paper you support your thesis. Right?


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## jdatwood (Apr 13, 2009)

Cranky said:


> Why is everyone so sensitive. I want to know why Acana is better. In my world, if someone recommends to another that they should spend twice as much to feed their dog, then there should be a reason.
> 
> In school, if you are writing a paper you support your thesis. Right?


Far from being sensitive. You've once again ignored my questions. What are you trying to hide? (we know it's you truthdog... :wink

Why does she need professional credentials to give her opinion on a high quality dog food?

Who are YOU and what are YOUR credentials? 

Maybe you should read some of the posts in this forum and even INTRODUCE yourself before attacking long standing members for their opinions.


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## PDXdogmom (Jun 30, 2010)

I know I find it helpful when people provide some personal observations when they either recommend or put down a specific food.

For example: instead of simply saying "brand X is the best food out there" or "I wouldn't touch brand x with a ten foot pole"; follow-up on those remarks.

Comments like:
my dogs have always gotten a dry dull coat when eating formula A
my dogs have clean ears, good energy level, shiny coat, etc. when eating formula B
I never get my questions answered from customer service with brand A
Customer service called me back the same day to answer my questions.
Brand C has some ingredients which I think can be very harmful in the long term.
I hear a lot of people complain that their dogs always have soft stool on brand B.

Those kinds of comments give me something to go on . . . particularly if I read the same thing a number of times from a variety of sources.


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## Cranky (Dec 26, 2011)

jdatwood said:


> Far from being sensitive. You've once again ignored my questions. What are you trying to hide? (we know it's you truthdog... :wink
> 
> Why does she need professional credentials to give her opinion on a high quality dog food?
> 
> ...


Anyone that is so sure that one food is better than another should have training and a formal background in canine nutrition. Don't you think. I think people get romanced by certain foods and can't make a rational decision.

So back to the issue, the OP asked about Canidae vs Acana and the slobbering love affair continues but no one can say why. Why would anyone spend twice as much for dog food if there was no documented reason.

"There's no scientific evidence that any food is better than the next," says Joseph Wakshlag, D.V.M., Ph.D., an assistant professor of clinical nutrition at the Cornell University College of Veterinary Medicine."

Personally, I wouldn't use a food unless it has been used in a professional application, and virtually no food recommended on this forum is used in any professional application.


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## jdatwood (Apr 13, 2009)

Enjoy your short lived time here on DFC yet again. We know you're the member formally known as truthdog and you'll be banned shortly. Thanks for playing.


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## Cranky (Dec 26, 2011)

jdatwood said:


> Enjoy your short lived time here on DFC yet again. We know you're the member formally known as truthdog and you'll be banned shortly. Thanks for playing.


Did I upset you? It seems whenever someone points out that honest, hardworking people are getting ripped off, the Dog Food Police swoop in. I can tell from a mile away if someone actually knows about what dogs need to eat. The fakes use buzz words, like "carnivore", "species appropriate diet", "grain heavy" and lots of other ones.


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## jdatwood (Apr 13, 2009)

Not at all. You're a troll who comes to this forum every few months under a new screen name. You can keep registering new accounts but we find you ever time. You think you'd grow tired of this game.

You offer nothing to this forum so why do you feel the need to keep trying to cause trouble here?


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

Cranky said:


> Did I upset you? It seems whenever someone points out that honest, hardworking people are getting ripped off, the Dog Food Police swoop in. I can tell from a mile away if someone actually knows about what dogs need to eat. The fakes use buzz words, like "carnivore", "species appropriate diet", "grain heavy" and lots of other ones.



My hound looks better within just a few days of being on a grain free food with a protein of 32%, after a few months on a grain heavy food of a protein of only 23%. Her coat looks better and her dandruff is lessening.



So, there.


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## Unosmom (May 3, 2009)

> Did I upset you? It seems whenever someone points out that honest, hardworking people are getting ripped off, the Dog Food Police swoop in. I can tell from a mile away if someone actually knows about what dogs need to eat. The fakes use buzz words, like "carnivore", "species appropriate diet", "grain heavy" and lots of other ones.


Buzzwords really? have you ever looked at your dogs teeth? know how digestive tract works? little common sense goes a long way, but apparently its little hard to come by nowadays. 
I can tell you from a personal experience that my own dogs personally have always done better on grain free. I occasionally buy canidae for my parents dog because I'm the one paying for food and I need something affordable. On canidae, he has giant poops for a 20 lb dog, his coat is never very shiny and he has some dandruff. I rotate with grain free when I can afford it and a week ago I started him on natures variety instinct, within a week his coat has gotten so much shinier and softer, his scratching is decreased by at least 50% and his poo size has decreased significantly. Right now I'm trying to find something thats grain free that works for my budget and doesent upset his stomach. 

My own dog has always done well on Acana, he always has nice muscle done, lots of energy and soft shiny coat.

I base my recommendation on personal experience as well as ingredient evaluation.


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## Cranky (Dec 26, 2011)

Unosmom said:


> Buzzwords really? have you ever looked at your dogs teeth? know how digestive tract works? little common sense goes a long way, but apparently its little hard to come by nowadays.
> I can tell you from a personal experience that my own dogs personally have always done better on grain free. I occasionally buy canidae for my parents dog because I'm the one paying for food and I need something affordable. On canidae, he has giant poops for a 20 lb dog, his coat is never very shiny and he has some dandruff. I rotate with grain free when I can afford it and a week ago I started him on natures variety instinct, within a week his coat has gotten so much shinier and softer, his scratching is decreased by at least 50% and his poo size has decreased significantly. Right now I'm trying to find something thats grain free that works for my budget and doesent upset his stomach.
> 
> My own dog has always done well on Acana, he always has nice muscle done, lots of energy and soft shiny coat.
> ...


Ingredient evaluation? How do you do that? I highly doubt your mom's dog's coat is any better on NV. There is no way feeding a dog a new food for one week will show any difference. If a food has any impact on skin and coat it would take the better part of 3 months to see, unless it is a very bad food.

I wouldn't feed any dog NV. That is nothing but a marketing company. It was owned by the guy that now owns Natures Logic. The protein and ash content are too high for the vast majority of dogs. 99% of dogs will just eliminate protein above 20-25%, literally pissing your money away and putting stress on the liver and kidneys. Highly stressed dogs like hunting and sled dogs do just fine on 30 - 32% protein. This has been proven by study after study by David Kronfeld.


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## Unosmom (May 3, 2009)

So you want to come over and check out their dog to see what in god awful shape he is? Like I said before, I feed him rotation of grain free/grain inclusive based on my budget, he was on beneful before they adopted him, awful skin odor, yest infections and allergies. Then I switched him to Totw which he couldnt tolerate, then I put him on NV instinct because I transitioned my dog to raw and had no need for it. He was on it for over 3 months with zero side effects, quite the opposite his skin and coat transformed and he stopped scratching. I had to go back to canidae when the food ran out and while he does ok on it, his coat is always dry and dull and he has large stool. Now he's back on instinct and showing improvement in skin and coat (and yes, it can take as little as 1 week to see improvement depending on the dog). 
I dont have any before pictures, but heres one after he was on NV for a month



















Please forward me a study that you mention because I did some researching online and I cant find anything even close to what you mention(in fact I've asked you numerous times before you were banned and you never got back to me). 



> Heres what I did find "David Cronfeld, author of numerous papers on dog foods takes a much stronger stand against carbohydrates in the canine diet then most canine experts. Whereas many experts feel that carbohydrates should be limited (but not eliminated) to help stave off health threads such as obesity and diabetes, Dr Kronfeld said " carbohydrates are most important for dogs in 2 situations, puppies just coming off mothers milk and lactating bitches". He continues by saying that carbohydrates need not be supplied to adult dogs, even those working hard as the liver is able to easily synthesize sufficient glucose for utilization by the body".


High carb diets and behavior by Liz Palika


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## Jacksons Mom (Jun 13, 2010)

I will say that I fed a variety of lower protein/lower fat grain inclusive foods from the end of July-November.

Castor & Pollux Organix Weight Mgt. to California Natural to Natural Balance Lamb & Rice to Fromm Pork and Duck formulas.

Anyways, we are now on our second bag of Acana grain-free and I can completely tell a difference. It's not that he did BAD on the other foods - not at all. He never had throw up or diarrhea or any major ailments, just small little things that I notice, but over the course of those months, his coat definitely got duller. I thought it was just me but now that he's been on Acana again, his coat is sooo much shinier and softer to touch. It's hard to explain. His muscle tone is definitely more refined too. And I know it hasn't been that long. But I dunno, in general, I think I've recently decided he does better on grainfree. But the only way I could tell was by experimenting with different kibbles for a few months and I just feel that it's what he does better on. Maybe it's not scientific but about all I can do is experiment and see which little issues I see improve or get worse on different kibbles.

Is the extra money worth it? I really don't entirely know, but it's what I FEEL best doing (not because it's more expensive, but because I like the company, the ingredients, the principle behind it, etc) and it's what I feel comfortable with. I don't mind paying a little bit extra because he's a small dog and doesn't eat much food anyways. 

Can I say that he's going to live a longer, healthier life by feeding grain-free Acana over grain-inclusive something else... no, of course not. He did well on the grain inclusive and I am sure he'd be just as happy and active on, say, Natural Balance. But if he can do even BETTER, IMO, then I'll do it.


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## PDXdogmom (Jun 30, 2010)

Jacksons Mom said:


> I will say that I fed a variety of lower protein/lower fat grain inclusive foods from the end of July-November.
> 
> Castor & Pollux Organix Weight Mgt. to California Natural to Natural Balance Lamb & Rice to Fromm Pork and Duck formulas.
> 
> ...


This is a helpful post in my opinion. The findings are not scientific, of course, but it is anecdotal and covers quite a period of time and different types of food.

The most we dry feeders can do is to review different companies, brands and formulas; prioritize some choices; and feed them for 3-4 months to make a judgment. Then, we may start seeing a pattern with our own individual dogs. 

It really is a challenge for consumers to strip away the glossy marketing and get down to the essentials of a brand and formula. For example, I don't think the inclusion of 5 or 6 different meat proteins and half a dozen botanicals does anything to inherently enhance a kibble. It is a marketing angle to reach a specific type of consumer. 

If we could solidly determine the sourcing of each ingredient and the exact percentages of the first 3 - 5 ingredients, we would be much further ahead in analyzing a specific formula IMO.


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