# Dogy breed loyalty



## eternalstudent (Jul 22, 2010)

I was having a conversation about the old breed working dogs like the mastiffs, and comparing them to the new breeds like the collie and lab.

I believed that the old breeds would have the strongest loyalty bonds with the human handlers as they were kept much closer in. However, breeds like collies and labs when used as working dogs were quite often used as tools and kept in kennels.

Whilst watching extraordinary dogs on telly last night they said the complete opposite. Now two things here are possible.
One I have no idea which are the old and new breeds of dogs so I might be completely wrong or 
Two the newer breeds are bred to be much more loyal.


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## CavePaws (Jan 25, 2011)

Mastiffs are wonderful dogs, their protective nature is a plus in my opinion. One ancient breed that comes to mind is the Neopolitan Mastiff, most mastiffs I see have a wonderful disposition, albeit protective. You have to think about it, they were bred as war dogs and used way back in Roman times. Loyalty is thought of a lot as a dogs willingness to protect their family or remain extremely close to one person. Loyalty and a protective nature are things that are bred for and a lot of newer breeds are just as protective as ancient breeds if they are bred well for it. With breeding for a protective nature a lot of dogs can turn out fearful or aggressive of strange people or dogs as well, if their parents are selected well by a decent breeder this can be avoidable in a lot of dogs...I've come to the opinion that different drives come down to the parents of the dog, the dogs individual personality, and the way the dog was raised. Genetics play a giant role in the way a dog can act, it's not all nurture, but a lot of it can be. How well the breed standard temperament wise is upheld can have a role in it I guess, but I do think that some newer 'protection' work dogs have been bred to be much more efficient in their line of work than a mastiff. Those dogs bred specifically for protection are usually extraordinarily loyal be it to the family or one handler. 

I think some Border Collies and Labs can be extremely loyal dogs, a lot are...I know my lab like dogs are, they're naturally weary of strangers and pretty much family or one man dogs. I know Indi's loyalty most likely comes down to when I got her, how I've raised her, plus who she came from...She also comes with bad nerves though, so this contributes to the protective/weary nature. :| But new dogs vs. old dogs; what do we consider new and what do we consider old? Breeds back from the 1800s are still really old to me.  That's a lot of time for a breed to be specifically developed for loyalty and protection...


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## chowder (Sep 7, 2008)

I have had Chows forever, but has also owned a lab, Samoyeds, Lhasa's and now a Rottie / Boxer / whatever mix.

Chows are a very old breed and they are extraordinarily loyal. While they love the entire family, they attach themselves to one person in the family and never leave their side (which can be a pain in the butt sometimes when I move from room to room!) You have to socialize the puppies constantly just to get them comfortable with strangers petting them. 

Lhasa's are also an extremely old breed and they are very independent. My Lhasa's attached themselves to me and did the room following thing, but they aren't very 'emotional' and don't snuggle or cuddle or 'need' people. They will protect their house, but more because it is 'theirs' then because of any humans in it. 

Samoyeds are thought to be an ancient breed and we had two from the same litter with completely different personalities. As a rule though, they are very outgoing and welcome strangers. 

My lab would have gone off with anyone who had food . :becky:

My rottie/boxer mix is a rescue that I've only had 5 months but he has totally attached himself to me. He LOVES other people and runs right up to them to give them hugs and kisses, but always ends up back up against me. It is probably more because the way I treat him then his breed. He's so much happier here then where he was that he's bonded beyond normal. 

So, I think I agree it is more of a breed and breeder factor then age of the breed so much. You can change a breeds personality in a few litters with a bad breeder. (I've seen mean Golden Retrievers!)


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## Mia (Oct 4, 2010)

chowder said:


> My lab would have gone off with anyone who had food . :becky:


LMAO.....Way to a lab's heart is through his stomach. :smile:


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## Herzo (Feb 5, 2011)

I have a Bullmastiff she will be 3 in May.She's very loyal but they maybe considered a new breed since they were developed in the 1800's.This is the first type of dog like this in the family so I only have her as a judge.She sometimes looks like she might take someone on but shes to much of a lover and loves people.As cavepaws says the other Mastiffs are a much older breed.But I am very familiar with the stock dogs Border Collies, Heelers, Australian Shepard and such.They are very loyal some get so attached they will not work for any one else.My dads new Border Collie is this way, the older one will work for any one just to work livestock but if he rides off unless it's from a bunch of sheep both will always go with him and they are around the rest of us allot.But they are his dogs and they know it.Even though the older one lived with me for a month when she was first picked up from the breeder.I really don't think they come any more loyal than the stock type dogs.I'm not saying the others are not loyal I just think the stock dogs are just as loyal.Blue and Red Heelers are known as big one man dogs.


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## MissusMac (Jan 6, 2011)

From my experience with huskies, one of the ancient working breeds, they have weaker loyalty bonds and I know my dog will go with anyone who has a treat!

ETA: Of course, this may have to do with the fact that huskies worked in teams, whereas one collie will spend their lifetime working with one herder that raises, trains, and works with them and few other dogs.


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## 3Musketeers (Nov 4, 2010)

Dunno too much about the working breeds, I would imagine that the biggest factor would be on whether they selected the dogs to be bred based on loyalty. As in, if they considered it a major factor before deciding to let a dog breed.

I mainly just know about Papillons. They were literally bred just to be companions, no other reason. Very old breed too, 1500s or so I believe, Plenty of European countries trying to claim they invented the breed, but no one really knows. So are they loyal? Well, that's what part of they were bred for, :biggrin:.


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## stajbs (Jun 5, 2010)

Of our sibes, 6 out of 7 of them loved everybody. They would just as soon invite the burglar into your house so they can meet them than try to stop an uninvited stranger from entering theirs and our domain. Our one girl while looking primarily sibe was mixed with a GSD and she had those more protective instincts She loved everyone she met,smart as a whip, but she absolutely hated the farmer who had a herd of beef cattle in the pasture next to our house. Whenever he worked on his fencing and she was outside she had her hackles up and barked sort of threateningly. She obviously got some vibe off of him she didn't like. So I guess she really doesn't qualify as a sibe, although she had no issues with others she met. She did exude a sort of air about her that made people hesitant around her. She had more of an alpha personality and didn't hesitate to look at you dead on to see how you would respond. All our friends knew her, but at events only a few friends were really comfortable around her. One time at a weight pull a siberian belonging to a friend got loose and decided to visit Sandi. As his owner, another friend and myself chased him down to my truck where the dogs were "dropped", both my friends stopped suddenly and said "oh, it's Sandi", meanwhile I waded in grabbed Jakes collar and had no issues. Siberians are essentially useless as guardians. Most times people get onto our property, and get tot he door, and sometimes even get inside before they respond.


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## Rottnk9s (Jun 28, 2010)

chowder said:


> My rottie/boxer mix is a rescue that I've only had 5 months but he has totally attached himself to me. He LOVES other people and runs right up to them to give them hugs and kisses, but always ends up back up against me. It is probably more because the way I treat him then his breed.


This is exactly how my rottweilers act. They are extremely loyal yet 99% of the time they act just like your mix. They are very bonded to me but LOVE others ... especially Lyric :smile: She is social butterfly!!


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## Celt (Dec 27, 2010)

From what I was taught, most "old" guarding breeds were more orient to guarding a "place" and didn't really have an "owner", more of a "handler" (who was generally in charge of "packs") while the "newer" breeds were more people oriented because they were expected to work with an "owner". Most mastiff breeds were used to protect the home, while the "newer" bullmastiffs were used to work with gamekeepers to find poachers. Kuvas (sp?) which are "older" than border collies were expected to work on their own, while border collies were expected to "follow" directions.


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## KittyKat (Feb 11, 2011)

Well, the first mention of a Whippet was in 1610... so not super old, but I know my dog loves everyone. She's a total people nut, loves dogs, cats, anything.


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## malluver1005 (Nov 15, 2009)

Aspen's breed is about 2-3,000 years old. He loves his family...but weary of strangers and very protective. Cuddly when he wants to be, smart and very independent. True to his nature.

ETA: Aspen looooves children!! Way back when, members of the tribe would go out and hunt and the malamutes where left behind to protect the little ones. That is the only thing he'll go up to with a wagging tail...a child.


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## luvMyBRT (Mar 8, 2010)

Even though the BRT is not an old breed, they are extremely loyal. 

It was back in the 1930s that the Red Star Kennel in Moscow started working to create the BRT. The BRT was created using selective breeding of Rottweilers, Giant Schnauzers, Airdale Terriers and Newfoundlands. In 1956 the BRT finally bred true. BRTs came to the US in the 1980s and was not accepted into the AKC working class until 2004.

The BRT is very intelligent and extremely reliable. They are bred for guarding and protecting and because of this they form very strong bonds with their families, but are aloof with strangers. A well socialized BRT is good and distinguishing a threat from something that is not. And, if they feel there family is being threatened they act immediately to eliminate that threat. A very loyal dog, the BRT always wants to be where the family is.


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