# Is fish oil really necessary if you feed grass fed and wild meats?



## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

Humor me please 

I recall reading that we feed fish oil to replace omega 3's that are lost when meat is factory farmed.

Say I fed only wild and/or grass fed meats. Would fish oil be necessary?


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Lots of people say no you don't. I still feed fish even though I have alot of grass fed meat just because.


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## shellbell (Sep 24, 2011)

I’m no expert but I don’t think it is necessary if you are feeding a lot of grass fed red meats. As long as you have a healthy dog. I have to give it to Tux daily for therapeutic reasons, even though he eats mainly grass fed red meat. And Cabo I usually give a squirt of it to him daily too, b/c he likes it and it’s easy to mix his Bug Off Garlic with.


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## CavePaws (Jan 25, 2011)

If you fed only grass fed or wild meats, no I doubt you would need to supplement. However, it is true that Omega 3s are depleted in factory farmed meat, so if you feed mostly factory farmed meat like I do, then yes, you will have to supplement.


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

Thank you for your helpful answers!

I have another hypothetical question.

Would it be okay to not supplement with fish oil during the time grass fed meat is fed? 

Say I fed factory farmed for a month, then grass fed the next month.


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## Maritan (Nov 11, 2011)

I believe there might be a small misconception here. If I'm wrong, please feel free to correct me.

My understanding is that factory farmed meat as we are calling it (or grain fed beef as I sometimes refer to it) does not have depleted omega 3s, but rather a higher omega 6 content than grass fed beef. While omega 6 fatty acids are necessary for dogs (and us) it is also important to note that we need to get the ratio of omega 3s to omega 6s correct. Since grain fed meat is higher in omega 6, we supplement with fish oil to boost the omega 3 content and therefore get the ratio in the appropriate range. Too much omega 6 can also cause inflammation, and the right amounts of omega 3 helps counter that.


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

Maritan said:


> I believe there might be a small misconception here. If I'm wrong, please feel free to correct me.
> 
> My understanding is that factory farmed meat as we are calling it (or grain fed beef as I sometimes refer to it) does not have depleted omega 3s, but rather a higher omega 6 content than grass fed beef. While omega 6 fatty acids are necessary for dogs (and us) it is also important to note that we need to get the ratio of omega 3s to omega 6s correct. Since grain fed meat is higher in omega 6, we supplement with fish oil to boost the omega 3 content and therefore get the ratio in the appropriate range. Too much omega 6 can also cause inflammation, and the right amounts of omega 3 helps counter that.


Interesting! Thank you 

Now if we were to feed grass fed meats that are balanced, would supplementing with fish oil throw the balance off or is there no such thing as too many omega 3s?


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## Maritan (Nov 11, 2011)

Cliff Notes version: Yes, too much O3 is bad. The ideal ratio is 1:1 of O3:O6.

Full post from Mark's Daily Apple (www.marksdailyapple.com):



> Yes. Remember that we talk about limiting polyunsaturated fats because they are inherently unstable and prone to oxidation (which can happen on the store shelf, on your counter, when cooking, or in your body), and omega-3s are in the same category.
> 
> Polyunsaturated fats – all of them – are fragile, and very powerful. Remember that the only essential fatty acids are the polyunsaturates, and that goes for omega-3. Be careful with the dosage, as several studies show that while a lack thereof is dangerous, an excess can also be harmful. One study found that pregnant rats with either an omega-3mega-6 dietary ratio of 14:1 or a ratio of 0 (no omega-3 at all) gave birth to pups with impaired hearing; the excessive omega-3 group also had pups with retarded growth. Another study showed that when compared to a diet high in olive oil, a high omega-3 diet increased LDL oxidation in humans, most likely because of its inherent instability. It was overrepresented in the LDL particles, and the LDL particles were becoming more fragile.
> 
> ...


Read more: Dear Mark: Hempseed, Too Much Omega-3, and Vitamin D’s Halflife | Mark's Daily Apple


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## twotonelover (Jan 10, 2011)

On the days I feed grass fed/wild meat or fish, I do not supplement with fish oil. If the meat I'm feeding comes from the super market, I always supplement.


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## Maritan (Nov 11, 2011)

One thing! The post that I linked to is obviously for humans, but I would think a similar principle applied to our best friends too.


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

I feed all grass fed red meats so I do not supplement with fish oil anymore, however I still have a bottle with a few pills left so about once a week they get a pill just so I can get rid of the bottle, and they love the little dab of peanut butter that comes with it....:becky:


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

I just think the more variety the better. I don't supplement fish oil but when I couldn't find raw fish I fed canned sardines and now that I found fish I am feeding sardines and mackeral.

Is there really too much omega 3? I don't know. I know i don't know EXACTLY how much Snorkels needs to keep her heart ticking along well. As long as their bloodwork is good, I'm going to keep feeding fish practically every day.


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## JoeynZoey (Apr 25, 2011)

I also feed only grass fed/organic meat and poultry, along with fresh whole sardines weekly. Never understood why fish oils would be a necessity or even an option worth considering on a good raw diet. It makes sense now I suppose, if you're feeding grocery store animal proteins, as they'll be lacking the nutrients that grass fed animals obtain by a long stretch.


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

xellil said:


> I just think the more variety the better. I don't supplement fish oil but when I couldn't find raw fish I fed canned sardines and now that I found fish I am feeding sardines and mackeral.
> 
> Is there really too much omega 3? I don't know. I know i don't know EXACTLY how much Snorkels needs to keep her heart ticking along well. As long as their bloodwork is good, I'm going to keep feeding fish practically every day.


OH MY GOSH Snorkels has Sprocket ears! :biggrin:


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Sprocket said:


> OH MY GOSH Snorkels has Sprocket ears! :biggrin:


Haha - only when she's upside down or it's really windy!


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## Kat (Jul 12, 2011)

I read somewhere that if you use fish oil, you need to supplement it with vitamin e for dogs because when their bodies digest it, it causes vitamin e deficiency. Is that true? I have Sisu salmon oil in my cupboard that I stopped using on Ruby for that very reason. But, I do use coconut oil.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

That's why I'd rather feed real fish. You have to start supplementing the supplements to make sure they can absorb everything. With natural food whatever is supposed to be there is there.


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## Kat (Jul 12, 2011)

Ruby gets canned "brunswick" sardines twice a week. I am going to a butcher in toronto by my friends house this weekend who sells really nice frozen sardines, so I am going to make the switch to fresh fish fairly soon. So with fresh fish there is no need to supplement fish oil?


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

I never do. Even with canned they are getting the oils.


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

I need to go to clear lake and stock up on carp.

Maybe I'll post a Craigslist ad up there looking for Carp. My dogs get little to no fish. It's just too expensive.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

my dogs don't tolerate salmon oil and i feed sardines and herring and mackerel..

not all of their variety comes from grass fed/grass finished, but quite a bit does.

they take a product called bioprep which is an algae...and that provides omega 3s along with other stuff..

i think we're covered here


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## Maritan (Nov 11, 2011)

Sprocket said:


> I need to go to clear lake and stock up on carp.
> 
> Maybe I'll post a Craigslist ad up there looking for Carp. My dogs get little to no fish. It's just too expensive.


I can't look it up right now, but I believe carp is NOT an oily fish. The reason we feed fresh fish is to give them the oils they need. I don't believe you'll be achieving your dietary intention with carp...


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

Maritan said:


> I can't look it up right now, but I believe carp is NOT an oily fish. The reason we feed fresh fish is to give them the oils they need. I don't believe you'll be achieving your dietary intention with carp...


http://dogfoodchat.com/forum/raw-feeding/13903-asian-carp-2.html

Carp - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Carp are various species of oily[1]freshwater fish of the family Cyprinidae, a very large group of fish native to Europe and Asia


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## Maritan (Nov 11, 2011)

I stand corrected. Thank you. :smile:


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

Maritan said:


> I stand corrected. Thank you. :smile:


 They are an invasive species so no one cares how many you take. 

I just need to drive the hour drive to get them.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

We give salmon oil occasionally. Not because I think its necessary...but because it helps "flavor" the things the girls wont eat normally plus its good for them. 

We keep EVERY eggshell we have from our meals since we don't let anything go to waste (we eat ~30+ eggs per week) that we grind up in the VitaMix. We then will mix them with either ground meats, or whole eggs and we always add fish oil to it. Makes it more appetizing for the girls. 

The red meats we feed are primarily grass fed


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

DaneMama said:


> We give salmon oil occasionally. Not because I think its necessary...but because it helps "flavor" the things the girls wont eat normally plus its good for them.
> 
> We keep EVERY eggshell we have from our meals since we don't let anything go to waste (we eat ~30+ eggs per week) that we grind up in the VitaMix. We then will mix them with either ground meats, or whole eggs and we always add fish oil to it. Makes it more appetizing for the girls.
> 
> The red meats we feed are primarily grass fed


Will you be supplementing them with more fish oil when you feed that grain fed pork you got?


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Sprocket said:


> Will you be supplementing them with more fish oil when you feed that grain fed pork you got?


We've already added that pork to their rotation...they've been eating it for a good month since we got it. But no, I haven't increased their fish oil because the meat from this hog is as dark as beef (my mom actually thought I was feeding beef yesterday) and its also very well marbled with fat. I've not noticed the girls itching or flaking at all LOL


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

DaneMama said:


> We've already added that pork to their rotation...they've been eating it for a good month since we got it. But no, I haven't increased their fish oil because the meat from this hog is as dark as beef (my mom actually thought I was feeding beef yesterday) and its also very well marbled with fat. I've not noticed the girls itching or flaking at all LOL


That's good 

What about the color and fat marbling content correlates to sufficient omega 3 content?


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Sprocket said:


> That's good
> 
> What about the color and fat marbling content correlates to sufficient omega 3 content?


Honestly? I don't have any correlation to omega 3 content. 

Its just my mind "thinks" its sufficient because this pork is so rich in color and fat content. It looks nothing like the light pink pork from the grocery stores. 

Maybe if I saw issues with skin and coat I would think differently about this pork meat...but they eat this probably 3 days per week lately without issue.


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

DaneMama said:


> Honestly? I don't have any correlation to omega 3 content.
> 
> Its just my mind "thinks" its sufficient because this pork is so rich in color and fat content. It looks nothing like the light pink pork from the grocery stores.
> 
> Maybe if I saw issues with skin and coat I would think differently about this pork meat...but they eat this probably 3 days per week lately without issue.


Well the truth is in the evidence 

Thanks for answering my questions.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Sprocket said:


> Well the truth is in the evidence
> 
> Thanks for answering my questions.


Of course!

Maybe my way of thinking is flawed...but so far I've never had an issue caused by something that just "feels" right...ya know?


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