# How many are out there?



## kelii (Aug 18, 2012)

After discovering this forum and a few others, raw feeding seems pretty common place to me. That is, until I was snapped back to reality yesterday. I had stock piled a bunch of organs in my basket and the the cashier was staring at them. I told her they were for my dog. He eats raw meat. She looked at me like a worm had just crawled out of my nose, and I was suddenly reminded I wasn't in internet land anymore. So, how many people, do you think feed raw compared to kibble feeders? Maybe 10%?


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## Elliehanna (Jan 16, 2012)

I would think more like 4% think of ALL the households out there and such, many raw feeders are on multiple sites, its not a big industry, I mean there are what maybe 5 delivery websites across the US? I love when I get that look, I have never had anyone tell me I was killing my dog (I can't wait for that one) since my boy can't tolerate kibble at all I just wait for the day lol


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

There might be 5 delivery sites on the internet but I know my co-op has about 1,000 members for WA/OR and because they just started charging a yearly fee, people who belong are getting stuff for other people. I'd say it's probably closer to 10% with all the premade raw available in boutiques and feed stores.


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## Elliehanna (Jan 16, 2012)

yea, I didn't think of co-ops and such because there are none around me, so yea I could see it being maybe 10% now


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## Fundog (Oct 25, 2012)

I know I'm the only person in my little village. But the reactions when I tell people what I'm doing have only ranged from surprise to intrigue. Example: one day at our village market, I picked up a package of frozen pigs feet. I had them on the checkout, and some other neighbor/co-workers of mine were in line with me. They are Latino, (and I am clearly a "Gringa," lol) so they asked me how I prepare the pigs feet. I replied it's really simple-- I take the pigs feet out of the package, invite my dogs out to the back porch, and give pigs feet to dogs. LOL. Then I launched into a long "informative" speech about the benefits of feeding raw or BARF style diets rather than kibble. So no being grossed out, but very interested.

However... I am careful not to preach these benefits too much-- we are getting free/almost free beef trim from that little store, and we are keeping it a secret!


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## wolfsnaps88 (Jan 2, 2012)

While I am very willing to help people with raw, I am glad its not very popular (not around here now, anyways). I would hate to have a lot of competition. In my area, I have seen 4 or 5 other raw feeders on Craigslist. I have gotten a good deal of meat for free and if the demand were to grow, I might start getting charged for my "free/super cheap" stuff. 

I think places like the Washington co op I hear so much about are the exception and not a good way to judge the overall total of raw feeders. 

There was a recent segment about raw feeding on a morning tv show. Things like this might raise awareness but I think people generally will not want to put the effort into it.. It is easier to just pour a bag of kibble than it is to secure good meat sources, portion and store raw meats, etc. 

If you need to talk about raw, the internet is yopur best place. Talking to everyday people, its almost a given that you will get sttrange looks lol.


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## thecake (Nov 15, 2012)

I live in upstate NY and would LOVE to know "how many are up here"! I did find a butcher about 45 miles away who will order me 30# cases of chicken backs and when I told him it was for my dog he said "oh yeah I have one other person who does the same thing for his Newfoundland"... I thought that was neat...


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## GoingPostal (Sep 5, 2011)

As far as I know I'm the only pet owner locally who feeds raw, there's sled dog people who give partial raw but they don't buy it at the store or anything. The grocer is willing to order me in bulk meats but they were definitely confused about the idea and anyone I mention it to I really have to spell it out, it's really just raw meat and yes they eat bones, no they aren't going to get sick. I'm ok being a loner, means more scraps and freebies. Usually if I am buying weird stuff like giblet packs or liver if people ask I say it's for my ferrets, for some reason it seems to be more accepted, I suppose because they don't know anything about them so I must be right.


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## NewYorkDogue (Sep 27, 2011)

I get asked often what I feed Mateo (which is weird; I mean when I meet a new dog and chat with the owner, it wouldn't occur to me to ask what they feed him/her...but anyway.)

Surprisingly, a lot of people are familiar with raw feeding- either they have heard of it, or have a history of dabbling in raw. Sometimes I sense a feeling of regret; like they wish they "could afford it", or wish they hadn't given up on it. Only once or twice have I got the look of horror, with the person saying that they could/should/would NEVER feed raw bones to a dog...(OMG!)

But I have recently met - in person - a true raw feeder. :smile: We have started splitting bulk orders and sharing our experiences, et. al. Really cool.


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## pogo (Aug 28, 2011)

I personally do not know anyone else that feeds there dogs raw or even partial.

The only ones i've 'met' are people on forums like this one


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## Gally (Jan 28, 2012)

Depends where you live. My city has probably around 20 pet stores and I can only think of a few that don't have a wall of freezers for raw food. There is one store that is dedicated solely to raw feeding and many butchers make their own raw food mix. I have met many people locally who feed raw or partial raw and there are a few vets to choose from who support raw. Also, many of the dog day cares and boarding facilities support and promote raw feeding as well as natural rearing.


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## amaterasu (Oct 17, 2012)

We've been actually getting a lot( maybe 30 people out of our 150 customer) trying pre-made and pmr ever since our nature variety rep. has been visiting.
Its quiet exciting to have a customer come to the register, buy nothing, and as if we know where to find bulk meat and organs.


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## zontee (Oct 12, 2012)

i am the only 100% raw feeder i know 
i know a few people that add raw on their kibble.
i know of a few raw feeders thru dog shows


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## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

I would be very surprised if it was over 1% here. Other than Chox, me and my friend, I have heard of 2 others who live well over 20 miles away, and that is it. And I hang out with a lot of dog people as well. Maybe they are a wee bit more close minded in this area. Oh, our pet shop owners feed premade raw, I forgot about that.


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## Fundog (Oct 25, 2012)

GoingPostal said:


> I'm ok being a loner, means more scraps and freebies. Usually if I am buying weird stuff like giblet packs or liver if people ask I say it's for my ferrets, for some reason it seems to be more accepted, I suppose because they don't know anything about them so I must be right.


Around here, a lot of folks eat giblets and liver and such. In fact, liver and onions has been served in our cafeteria at work at least once a week all this month! And my hubby *loves *deep fried chicken giblets. Before getting my girls on raw, he would have a fit when I bought the giblets for them, because he wanted to eat them himself, lol. It's the way he was brought up: you don't "throw" anything away to the dogs if it is considered edible for people. 

I'm so glad he's finally come around to a more sensible way of thinking, lol. Like someone else said, if push comes to shove, we can eat the "dog food." And today we just put a big turkey in the "four legged people" freezer because the "two legged people" freezer is full! (LMBO)


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## BeagleCountry (Jan 20, 2012)

Of the approximately 60 beagle people I know at least 6 of them feed raw. We started with BARF during the days of Billinghurst's "Give Your Dog A Bone". Most are now feeding PMR. I am the only 100% pet person of the group. The others compete in agility, tracking and/or conformation. 

With Australia being the home of Billinghurst and Lonsdale I wonder if there is more interest in raw feeding down under than there is in other countries.


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## wolfsnaps88 (Jan 2, 2012)

I think maybe the raw movement is starting to worry vets out there. Just saw a news segment tonight with a vet (whom I know! Ha!) who says it is dangerous for people to feed raw and we should just feed kibble. I think the raw movement is gaining momentum.


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## JoeynZoey (Apr 25, 2011)

My local grocer who works with local farmers, never questions the quantity that I will purchase of raw meats, which is strictly for Zoey. My local whole foods, at first the butcher men would throw in humor jokes, about why exactly I was placing such a large order, each time I took a trip there, ordering all of these specific raw meat cuts. I finally told them when they finally had asked, it was for my dog and that she consumes her natural diet, therefore. They were very surprised, but very pleased to hear about the diet to say the least. 

With a human natural diet (raw based/non animal products), it is far worse, as that is my personal diet as well. Especially in America, we no longer abide by our own species appropriate diet on a greater scale. So it has always been harder for me, to discuss this among others vs our dog's raw diet.


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## kelii (Aug 18, 2012)

wolfsnaps88 said:


> I think maybe the raw movement is starting to worry vets out there. Just saw a news segment tonight with a vet (whom I know! Ha!) who says it is dangerous for people to feed raw and we should just feed kibble. I think the raw movement is gaining momentum.


That's ridiculous! How can feeding raw be anymore dangerous than preparing meat for the humans? If you're that worries about it wipe your dogs face when he's done.


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

Working professionally with dogs the last 6 years, in four different states, I've come across a total of four dogs fed a home-prepared diet, and TWO PMR fed dogs, one of which I helped transitioned. Add in a handful of pre-made raw folks in, but it's still an INCREDIBLY small amount. And the businesses I've worked at are the type that draw out the above-average pet owners. It may be getting more common to add raw in some way to the diet, but going straight up raw is still not inredibly common, in my professional experience. 
Literally, maybe 2%. That's generous.


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## doggiedad (Jan 23, 2011)

i feed kibble and can but i do give my dog a 4oz raw beef
pattie now and then. i also give him raw chicken backs.
this site maybe helpful to raw feeders. Best Prices on the Net for Elk Meat, Buffalo Meat, Goat Meat, Venison, Steak and Roasts, Antler Chews.


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## anjing (Nov 20, 2012)

I personally do not know anyone else that feeds there dogs raw or even partial.

The only ones i've 'met' are people on forums like this one


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## woganvonderweidenstrasse (Nov 22, 2012)

NewYorkDogue said:


> I get asked often what I feed Mateo (which is weird; I mean when I meet a new dog and chat with the owner, it wouldn't occur to me to ask what they feed him/her...but anyway.)


It's because he just looks fantastic! There is something I noticed while reading through this website and the forums and the PMR face book page,seeing everyone's pictures. It's something about raw fed dogs; they're just in super condition; and I'm not just talking about the shiny coats, it's more like an overall radiantly healthy look! When I go to the park I can immediately tell when a dog is kibble fed: dull coats, excessive shedding when you pet them, these dogs lack mucsle tone and are often overweight. I've never seen a raw fed dog, other than my own pup of coarse, but I need not look further than the pictures of the raw feeders on this website.

The guy I buy my meat from tells me he sells over 3000kg of meat (to dogs & cats) every month in the Cape Town area. I think the raw feeding movement is definitely growing. On the one hand I'm glad, because I really do feel sorry for the thousands of other dogs and cats that have to eat the processed poison that is kibble. But on the other hand it will make it harder for us to find cheap quality meats for our dogs.


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## lauren43 (Feb 6, 2011)

thecake said:


> I live in upstate NY and would LOVE to know "how many are up here"! I did find a butcher about 45 miles away who will order me 30# cases of chicken backs and when I told him it was for my dog he said "oh yeah I have one other person who does the same thing for his Newfoundland"... I thought that was neat...


I'm in upstate!

I have a co op but I rarely find ppl in the area familiar with raw and most times when I tell ppl I get that look of surprise/disgust...


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## Chocx2 (Nov 16, 2009)

Well in my area I started out feeding raw years ago and now I have three people in my area I split orders with and other that live in a couple county's up north of me so its getting easier!!


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## Melissa z (Nov 26, 2012)

No one I know even thought to feed raw. But either do I yet......starting Saturday !!! Can't wait to see what they (dogs) do when I hand over a piece of real chicken!! It would be interesting to see some #s on people who feed raw.


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

schism said:


> kibble is also the perfect dietary choice for many dogs .


l...m...a...o


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## creek817 (Feb 18, 2012)

BeagleCountry said:


> Of the approximately 60 beagle people I know at least 6 of them feed raw. We started with BARF during the days of Billinghurst's "Give Your Dog A Bone". Most are now feeding PMR. I am the only 100% pet person of the group. The others compete in agility, tracking and/or conformation.
> 
> With Australia being the home of Billinghurst and Lonsdale I wonder if there is more interest in raw feeding down under than there is in other countries.



I have met a few people here in AUS that do partial raw, but I have yet to find any local PMR feeders. The butcher does a "pet mince", that I think sells pretty well, and both grocery stores have a pet section that not only sells ground premade stuff, but that's where the chicken and turkey necks, hearts, livers, etc. are. But, I really don't think it's very common here either =\


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## woganvonderweidenstrasse (Nov 22, 2012)

CorgiPaws said:


> l...m...a...o


What does l...m...a....o mean?


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## woganvonderweidenstrasse (Nov 22, 2012)

I apologize, forgot there are kibble feeders on this forum also. Didn't mean to offend anyone. I have seen one dog on kibble that I thought looked fantastic. He's a pitbull and was on Orijen at the time, but he's owner has now switched him to raw. I've also seen dogs on raw that look bad, but I think this is mostly when owners do it wrong and try to get away with cheap meats, pet mince, etc. or use to much grains, such as rice. The dogs then become fat - shiny coat, but fat. I think the raw diet is something that if you do it wrong it can be worse than the worse kibble on the market. It's not something you just jump into, you have to do a bit of homework....and feed quality human grade meats. I would love to see a picture of your dog?


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## Roo (Oct 17, 2010)

schism said:


> My dog has demodex. It was mild mange when she was young but is now fully under control. When I tried her on PMR, she had a VERY dull lifeless coat, it started exacerbating her demodex as a matter of fact... and I stayed with the diet for quite some time. I got sick of certain aspects of the diet and switched her back to kibble... she now has a lush, soft, shiny coat. She looks like a lightweight boxer (boxer as in sport), her muscles ripple under her coat and she has a better energy level (which still isn't saying much as she loves the couch).
> This was my experience.


You said you feed partial raw and partial kibble, so how do you know it's the kibble not the raw making Ruby's coat so shiny and soft?


> So who's correct? I don't know, this is why I do half kibble and half raw I suppose.


Secondly, let's be honest about your "PMR experience", you tried it for really short amount of time, not long enough for Ruby to really adjust to the diet. Only being on raw for a little under 2 months, and from your posts it seems like Ruby may have started detoxing and you took it as she was doing horrible on raw. Although you did claim in the beginning of feeding her raw that she was doing wonderful on it. When you attempted to do PMR, you didn't really follow the PMR feeding guidelines correctly and several experienced raw feeders on here told you most likely user error was to blame for Ruby not adjusting to the diet well.

For those unaware Schism is also Skadoosh in this older thread. She was banned, but created a new member ID to come back after already being banned. In this thread you can read in more detail Schism's PMR experience.
http://dogfoodchat.com/forum/raw-feeding/17074-difference-14.html



> 06-14-2012 "So... It's been a week! I started my girl Ruby on a raw diet because obviously it is the species appropriate choice. Not only that, she was beginning to have allergies-- chewing her legs, her bum and she had some yeast around her mouth. I started 7 days ago and I can honestly tell you that she has ALREADY improved! She has a shinier/softer coat, she doesnt reek like dog, her teeth are getting whiter and she had not been itching or biting. The yeast around her mouth is gone ALREADY. It's already done wonders for my girl!"


You never mentioned demodex, you said Ruby had allergy and yeast problems before.



> 07-28-2012 "I have my girl on half and half as well. She gets Acana Ranchlands right now and a chicken quarter usually in the evening. I am thinking of keeping her on this long term. I don't think a dog should JUST eat kibble it's entire life but I dont know the science of raw well enough to do it 100% of the time."


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## kathylcsw (Jul 31, 2011)

woganvonderweidenstrasse said:


> I apologize, forgot there are kibble feeders on this forum also. Didn't mean to offend anyone. I have seen one dog on kibble that I thought looked fantastic. He's a pitbull and was on Orijen at the time, but he's owner has now switched him to raw. I've also seen dogs on raw that look bad, but I think this is mostly when owners do it wrong and try to get away with cheap meats, pet mince, etc. or use to much grains, such as rice. The dogs then become fat - shiny coat, but fat. I think the raw diet is something that if you do it wrong it can be worse than the worse kibble on the market. It's not something you just jump into, you have to do a bit of homework....and feed quality human grade meats. I would love to see a picture of your dog?


No need to apologize since you are posting in the raw section. It is the kibble feeder that needs to apologize IMHO. In the raw section feel free to discuss the advantages of raw over kibble. This is the place for it.


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

No one here in my area feeds raw. If they do, I haven't met them. I have a "Feed Raw" magnet on the back of my jeep, and it's pretty regular I get asked "feed raw, what does that mean?"


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

schism said:


> I tried PMR for the better part of a year. I believe it was 10 months. When I did it, I did it the way it was recommended to me by a holistic vet with 30 years experience. Not by some questionable forum standard...
> I do feed partial raw. I give turkey necks, chicken quarters, and hopefully duck necks when I can score them... more for the dental benefits then for the evasive "benefits of raw".
> The moderators have allowed me to stay. I believe because I have held up my end of staying polite and respectful. Which I have. So I don't know why people keep on attempting to call me out as Skadoosh..? It just ends up making you look pathetic.
> I dont believe a bunch of boney cuts of meat fed 20% (used to be closer to 50% but she continues to have issues with acid reflux) of the time would account for her incredible health at this point. Even when she was on 100% kibble she looks 20x better then when on 100% raw. Who knows, maybe raw can be attributed to 20% of her success! Sounds about right...
> ...


Generally, when after almost a year raw still isn't going right It's usually user error. Since the great vet nutritionist couldn't help, how about letting the people on this "questionable" forum help? We help people everyday with great success.


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## kathylcsw (Jul 31, 2011)

schism said:


> The raw section may be here "to discuss the advantages of raw over kibble" but I am almost certain it is not here to make it out like kibble feeders are feeding rat poison every time they set down a bowl of kibble. Which is what many arrogant/ignorant/elitist members do on here.
> I'm starting to believe that there may in fact be some type of placebo type of effect concerning raw feeding.
> All I can do is state my personal experience, just like the rest of you  Which, I'm sure to all DFC raw feeders chagrin, is all you members have- anecdotes.


You know people might take you more seriously if you weren't so nasty and rude. To be honest I would not participate on a forum populated by arrogant, ignorant, elitist members. And for what it is worth I don't appreciate being referred to in that manner. Neither is it appreciated when people come into the raw section trashing raw feeders. Do you enjoy being ugly? I know that some sick people do - and I am using the term "sick" in the clinical sense by the way. Perhaps in the future you can share your anecdotes somewhere that they may be appreciated - perhaps on a board for people with Borderline Personality Disorder?


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## Roo (Oct 17, 2010)

schism said:


> I tried PMR for the better part of a year. I believe it was 10 months. When I did it, I did it the way it was recommended to me by a holistic vet with 30 years experience.


Why didn't you mention this in all your raw threads then after mentioning like four different raw feeding start dates? 



> The moderators have allowed me to stay. I believe because I have held up my end of staying polite and respectful. Which I have. So I don't know why people keep on attempting to call me out as Skadoosh..? It just ends up making them look classless and pathetic  almost grasping at straws.


People are calling you Skadoosh, because you are Skadoosh, you may view it as an attack on you, it's not, it's simply pointing out the facts.



> She also does not have yeast or allergies but she did have puppy demodex. She looks amazing at this stage of her life.


Why did you mention that she had these issues in past posts then?



> I am almost certain it is not here to make it out like kibble feeders are feeding rat poison every time they set down a bowl of kibble. Which is what many arrogant/ignorant/elitist members do on here.


Would love for you to point out where some raw members specifically said kibble feeders feed rat poison.


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## paw4x3 (Dec 2, 2012)

I know of at least 18 located in and around St. Louis, MO who are actively feeding raw. We belong to a Yahoo Group for raw feeders and help each other out with finding bargains and splitting large orders. Our group is growing...slowly.


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

Well there are over 1000 members in our co-op. Mostly Western Washington and Oregon, though there are some in Idaho and Eastern Washington. We have tons of raw feeders out here.


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## wolfsnaps88 (Jan 2, 2012)

I decided my post was a bit harsh and sent it as a private message instead. Sorry to the OP about this going off topic.


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## Roo (Oct 17, 2010)

> there was only one raw "start date"


 Really? Because you actually wrote 3 different ones in past posts as Skadoosh.



> 06-11-2012 "So I started raw 3 days ago. Just wanted to run by what exactly I am doing and any opinions would be helpful. I purchased pre-made as it is a more convenient option for me. It is called Spring Meadows.





> 06-11-2012 "I started raw with my girl about 2 weeks ago. I do pre made.





> 06-14-2012 "So... It's been a week! I started my girl Ruby on a raw diet because obviously it is the species appropriate choice.





> Whether I am or not doesn't pertain to this (or any) conversation.


It actually does pertain when referring to your post history in regards to your raw feeding experience that you brought up in the thread. 



> She also does not have yeast or allergies but she did have puppy demodex.


Yet in your post history, you wrote that she did have allergies and yeast problems.


> Not only that, she was beginning to have allergies-- chewing her legs, her bum and she had some yeast around her mouth. I started 7 days ago and I can honestly tell you that she has ALREADY improved! She has a shinier/softer coat, she doesnt reek like dog, her teeth are getting whiter and she had not been itching or biting. The yeast around her mouth is gone ALREADY.





> rat poison, cat poison and dog poison... no difference.


 I guess this means you couldn't find a specific post where a raw member said a kibble feeder was feeding rat poison, because one didn't exist.

My only issue with Schism is her posts that don't seem to add up, and what seems to be a passive aggressive disrespectful/argumentative/confrontational attitude on some of her posts.


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## kathylcsw (Jul 31, 2011)

schism said:


> I don't feel like I have been nasty or rude. Society IS pretty soft these days and you may have perceived it that way.
> Thank you for attempting to diagnose my mental state over the Internet. Seems to be a lot of Internet diagnosis going on, why stop with mental illness lol.



I'm sorry but where I come from it is considered rude to refer to people as arrogant, elitist, and ignorant. And if being polite and considerate is considered "soft" then all I can say is that society needs more of that not less.


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

I don't know of any raw feeders personally in my area. I met one on another forum who is about an hour away but I don't really know them. There are a few I see on craigslist occasionally. I know the Co-ops in my area are very busy but I'm not sure how many members they have. I would guess they have at least a few 100 - 1000 considering I live near the bay area and the type of people that call this place home. 

There are 2 members on here that are in my "area". By area I mean within 400 miles.


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## Roo (Oct 17, 2010)

Back to topic, sorry OP, I know a few raw feeders in my area, through facebook, although we don't have a local raw feeding coop or anything.


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## Roo (Oct 17, 2010)

Schism, pointing out the discrepancies in your posting history is not flogging, it's just pointing them out. You've already admitted to being Skadoosh in another thread so we don't need to rehash it. I agree with you, back to topic. . .


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

Here's the deal. If we allow raw bashing in the raw section, we have to allow kibble bashing in the kibble section. The kibble feeders have MANY times been in a complete uproar over anti-kibble posts over there... 
Skadoosh, I'm not even sure WHY you keep coming back after being banned or WHY the Super Mods have allowed this account to stay active for so long. 
Please leave the raw section to the raw feeders and those trying to switch or learn more. Your kibble-defending posts are not appropriate in this section and will be removed or moved for being miscategorized. 

And can we all act like adults around here? Please?


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## thecake (Nov 15, 2012)

We are new here, and I just wanted to update that I found a butcher closer to home and for the same price and they were WONDERFUL! The wife (owner) said "when I asked my husband if he could order chicken backs, he said "sure I get them all the time for customerS(plural!!)at our other store"!! So, I agree, it is catching on I think. Because of the way Spencer has improved so quickly... we have started our 4 cats (we bought an electric grinder) on ground chicken backs and supplements. I am off to search for a raw kitty thread...any raw cat feeders with advice would be GREATLY appreciated! I do have a couple of questions about the dog though..how long before I should notice this "detox" state? How will I recognize it? So far his coat (very short hair) has gone from feeling like straw to feeling much different, smooth and silky. His ears are only slightly pink with NO odor and no longer bright red and smelly. Stools are way way different and teeny (he's 60 lbs.) Hubby estimates we've gone thru 30-35 lbs of chicken so far...it's been about a month. I know about the 2-3%, we have been giving him 2 backs a day. Given his weight do you think this is ok? Should we be cutting him down? The only other thing he gets is an occassional homemade treat, or he shares my banana! I truly appreciate this forum and thank you!


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

Have you fed any protein besides chicken? If not, I would move on to turkey.

As far as the detox goes, it will really depend on the past toxin buildup in his system. So far, it sounds like things have gone well and are on track.


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## wolfsnaps88 (Jan 2, 2012)

You need to start adding meat. Chicken backs are a good start but since he is doing so well, he needs more chicken meat. Maybe move on to leg quarters as they are meatier.


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