# She thinks she's protecting me...HELP



## Catahoula (Jul 13, 2011)

Quick background:

Since Sonia has been a puppy I've tried to keep her socialized with other dogs. She is a catahoula, which many people say change their personalities when they are about 2 years old. I didn't want this to happen so I would take her to the dog park almost every weekend.

She did fine because she would run around and find some furry friends But, at about 2 years old that changed... She wouldn't wander far from me at the park, so when another dog would come greet me she would growl to run them off. She doesn't want them touching me or me touching them.

In all honest I don't think she would start a fight, but people get upset that I bring her to the park if she just guards me and growls at other dogs.  God forbid something actually happened, I would feel terrible.

So ultimately I quit taking her.:frown: She is now 4 years old and is very picky about what dogs she gets along with, but for that to work I have to remove myself from the situation for her to accept another canine in her presence.

I still take her to the feed store and pet shops, but have to keep an eye out for other dogs with their owners. I ask them not to approach Sonia with their dog. It makes me so sad because she was always so happy running and playing with the others...now she is just so protective of me I'm scared of what might happen one day if I end up in the wrong situation.

Any help or suggestions?


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Some dogs just aren't always social creatures, I no longer take Emmy to social places with other dogs but she's still a happy and healthy dog. But it does sound like a pretty serious case of resource guarding. You are a huge resource to her, so she feels compelled to protect that resource. 

Do you allow her to sleep in bed, get on the couch? What kind of rules do you have around the house? 

Who does she like to play with?


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## Catahoula (Jul 13, 2011)

DaneMama said:


> Some dogs just aren't always social creatures, I no longer take Emmy to social places with other dogs but she's still a happy and healthy dog. But it does sound like a pretty serious case of resource guarding. You are a huge resource to her, so she feels compelled to protect that resource.
> 
> Do you allow her to sleep in bed, get on the couch? What kind of rules do you have around the house?
> 
> Who does she like to play with?


She's allowed to lounge in my bed when I'm just watching movies and stuff, but at night time she has her own bed to sleep in, but it's in the room with me. She's allowed on the loveseat because I cover it with a blanket for her, but she's not allowed on the couch where I sit or anyone that comes over.

Around the house she knows what she's allowed to get on and what not. She isn't allowed to be in the kitchen with me when I'm cooking. And at my dinner time she has to lay down and not beg for food.

She likes to play with tennis balls, tug toys, and stuffed animals she can rip up. Toys don't last long in my house because her mouth is so strong she finds a way to destroy them. Even orka and kong toys, which are supposed to be so tough.

She gets along with my mom's 4 lbs yorkie, and my grandmothers 3 doxies, but first introductions had to be made without me around and acceptence took a few days. If she has time to get to know the dog she can do fine. I just can't have her in "spur of the moment" situations like a few hours at the park or browsing a few aisles at the local store.


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## DoglovingSenior (Jun 26, 2011)

Catahoula - Any of the protective, guarding breeds begin to change at about 18 mths & do what they were bred to do-protect,herd, guard etc.. I never did like Dog Parks as they can put the dog in situations to which it should not be exposed. I totally do not go. Many of the dog owners do NOT have control over their dogs & when one yells for them to get his/her dog they may say that their poopie-pie is just being friendly-crap, I can hear the thing growling & see my dog(s) getting into fight mode . <GRrrrrrrr>
I even took 2 to the University of GA's Vet school & had them observed & tested by the Doggie Psychology Dept. <lol> I admit I am A certifiable NUT about these animals. I must look for that report but will write the few things that I still remember (1) get the dog out of your bed, it puts him/her 2 far up on the food chain. (2) never let them walk in front of you-you walk through a door first etc. Stop any activity that places him on your level as he will think that he/she is entitled to be on a human level with other dogs. There was lots of other great advice & I will attempt to find it & send.
My dogs still sleep in my bedroom & one sneaks up on my bed.  I am a bad,bad ownerj. Good Luck.


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## Catahoula (Jul 13, 2011)

DoglovingSenior said:


> Catahoula - Any of the protective, guarding breeds begin to change at about 18 mths & do what they were bred to do-protect,herd, guard etc.. I never did like Dog Parks as they can put the dog in situations to which it should not be exposed. I totally do not go. Many of the dog owners do NOT have control over their dogs & when one yells for them to get his/her dog they may say that their poopie-pie is just being friendly-crap, I can hear the thing growling & see my dog(s) getting into fight mode . <GRrrrrrrr>
> I even took 2 to the University of GA's Vet school & had them observed & tested by the Doggie Psychology Dept. <lol> I admit I am A certifiable NUT about these animals. I must look for that report but will write the few things that I still remember (1) get the dog out of your bed, it puts him/her 2 far up on the food chain. (2) never let them walk in front of you-you walk through a door first etc. Stop any activity that places him on your level as he will think that he/she is entitled to be on a human level with other dogs. There was lots of other great advice & I will attempt to find it & send.
> My dogs still sleep in my bedroom & one sneaks up on my bed.  I am a bad,bad ownerj. Good Luck.


If you can find that sheet I would definitely be interested to find out more tips. Just let me know what would be the easiest way for you to get me the info. I can give you my email or if you want to post it for others that would be good too.

At one point I tried to keep her out of the bed, but I'm a huge softy...She gives me those eyes and I melt. She's the first dog I've owned (as an adult) so I'm still learning what's best. I don't think I screwed up too much with her, but there's room for improvement. 

Thanks again.


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## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

I may be wrong, but I don't mind Mollie being on the bed. I do mind however, if she does not get off the second I tell her to. I often tell her 'off' just to test her and, once, 6 months ago she actually raised her lip to me, so she was not allowed back up for a week or so. 

Also, I too have a dog that once was the life of the dog park (we have a nice one here), the happy go lucky, love every dog and person, lie on her back type. I was congratulating myself on a job well done, an ACD that was social and friendly towards other dogs, man, was I good or what? 
And, then she hit two years old. And, I'm obviously a useless dog trainer.
She's four now and is still great with every dog she met before she was 2 years old, but dogs after that? Not so hot unfortunately, I have to introduce them very carefully and politely and then she'll generally be ok. 
So, you aren't alone. Like a couple of good dog trainers mentioned before, it can be more generic and the breed of dog. All the humans in the world can't get along, so how can we expect all the dogs in the world to?
BTW Mollie doesn't guard me (at least I don't think so!).
I'd be interested in that paper from the University of Georgia too, that would be quite interesting to read.


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## SerenityFL (Sep 28, 2010)

We are currently in training because my boy has this issue and it must be stopped now while he's young. Some things I knew, some things, these little tiny things, I didn't know what they were saying to the dog...and I have changed them. Along with those little things is the training and while we are still working on things, I'm seeing HUGE improvements.

Now then, the "little" things:

* Dog is not allowed on bed or furniture. 
* Dog is not allowed out the door, down the stairs, through the gate, an archway, whatever, before me.
* Do not go up to the dogs to pet them. They must come to you. (Man did I blow that one...I was totally doing this. Sorry but they sometimes look so damn cute in their little doggies beds that I would go up to them, get down to their level and hug and snuggle on them.)
* Everything is earned. Every. Thing.
* Do not allow dog to lean on you. (The boy does this and I don't allow it anymore.)
*When I give praise, I'm not to bend all the way down to their level, hugging them and babying them. (Which I was doing...) I reward them, but I bend only slightly.


We have reinforced the long down stay and recall. When I tell that dog to come to me, that dog better come to me. When I tell that dog to lie down, that dog will lie down until I tell that dog he can move. (We're doing really well here but have some work to do with distractions...we've got some distractions down, some are far more tempting and we still work on it.)

We have a neighbor, on the other side of the fence, with a Golden Retriever. This dog likes to bark over at us, come up to the fence and it drives Shasta wild. Yes, Sakari will run over there as well but she wants to play and she doesn't bark all menacingly at the dog...still, she needs to be trained as well. Anyway, Shasta and this dog will try to tear the fence down to get at each other.

No. I won't allow that.

I call him over, I put him in a long down stay. He stays there and he shuts up. What I am telling him is that I am in charge, not him. I decide who we meet, who we talk to, who we socialize with, who we turn our backs on, NOT him.

To illustrate what I mean: My next door neighbor, (the one who shares a section of this house), also has a Golden Retriever. Sakari wants to play, Shasta wants to kill. The other day, the hoodlums were out, running around like idiots and I guess the neighbor didn't see my punks were already out. She walked out the door with her Golden and the hoodlums shot off towards them. (Like I said, we are still working on things...we're not in to high distractions yet.) Because I knew that the first meeting with this Golden did NOT go well, (Shasta assumed he was in charge and threw an all out FIT when I petted that other dog), I was a little anxious. BUT, because of all of this training, he did not go up and start barking and trying to attack this dog. No, he didn't listen to me when I called his sorry arse back, but he didn't try to attack like he did the first time around.

I told the girl I would put him on leash so her dog could be out. She always puts her dog on a long tie out so I put Shasta on leash, brought him to the edge of where the tie out reaches and put him in a down stay. Everything was fine until that dog went up to Sakari to play. Shasta got pissed. This is to illustrate that he believes he is higher ranking than Sakari, (which, if I'm not mistaken, this is what they have worked out), and by NO means! will another dog go up to her without HIS approval! But he forgets one thing...I'm higher ranking than he is. So, I did the correction, (which is a "scht!") and I stood between him and the Golden, my back to Shasta. And he calmed his sorry arse down.

When that Golden on the other side of the fence starts barking, Shasta flies along the fence line, barking like a tool. However, today, that dog was out there again and Shasta started to get riled up, I called him to me, he CAME!!!!!! and I put him in a long down stay, he STAYED!!!!! and after a little bit, I redirected his attention. It worked!

The point is, your dog is in charge, not you. Your dog is deciding who is allowed to come over and who isn't, not you. That's not the way it's supposed to be.

Now, everyone has an opinion and some people like things all fluffy and happy and nice and that would be great if it could be that way all of the time. The problem is, that's not reality. My hoodlums are NOT my equals. Are they family to me? Yes. Do I adore them? Yes. Would I do anything for them? Absolutely. (And they're starting to realize that.) But are they my equals? No. No more than a child is equal to his parents. Someone has to be in charge, (and some people don't like that word but it's the only word I know to use), and the dogs are not the ones for that job. A parent has to be in charge, not the child, is how I like to explain it.

Submissive dogs can be so much easier to handle but when someone has a dog showing dominance, I'm sorry, things have to be done differently. 

To anyone who doesn't like the words, "in charge", let me ease your mind: I do not yell at my dog, beat my dog, hit my dog, terrorize my dog, scare my dog, physically correct my dog. I just do things that tell my dog he is not in charge. He does not run the place. He does not get to make the decisions. I MAKE the decisions and he is to follow what I decide. That's it. Some of the ways to let him know that, to show him that he is not in charge are some of those things that I (really it's me), and my dog are being trained on. And it's working when nothing else did.


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## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

Oh dear. Now you've given me food for thought Serenity.


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

SerenityFL said:


> We are currently in training because my boy has this issue and it must be stopped now while he's young. Some things I knew, some things, these little tiny things, I didn't know what they were saying to the dog...and I have changed them. Along with those little things is the training and while we are still working on things, I'm seeing HUGE improvements.
> 
> Now then, the "little" things:
> 
> ...


GREAT post!! We are close to the same way with our pups, other then they are allowed on the furniture, we have one love seat and one chair...so ONLY when and if invited! Other wise we have lots of rugs on our hardwoods and they are more then welcome to lay there! They also do NOT get on the bed unless invited! I allow Rhett to snuggle with me when Im watching tv in there, but only because he is the one out of my 3 who knows that Im head dog! Other wise Brody can get VERY dominate and Leo gets VERY pushy! So they lay on the beds/piles of pillows and blankets that I have around the room!

However I also find that submissive dogs are just as hard to train! At least those who have forced to be submissive! Leo is this way and let me tell you it is a WHOLE other ball game because of it!


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## SerenityFL (Sep 28, 2010)

Scarlett_O' said:


> GREAT post!! We are close to the same way with our pups, other then they are allowed on the furniture, we have one love seat and one chair...so ONLY when and if invited! Other wise we have lots of rugs on our hardwoods and they are more then welcome to lay there! They also do NOT get on the bed unless invited! I allow Rhett to snuggle with me when Im watching tv in there, but only because he is the one out of my 3 who knows that Im head dog! Other wise Brody can get VERY dominate and Leo gets VERY pushy! So they lay on the beds/piles of pillows and blankets that I have around the room!
> 
> However I also find that submissive dogs are just as hard to train! At least those who have forced to be submissive! Leo is this way and let me tell you it is a WHOLE other ball game because of it!


Yah, I said they "can" be but in reality, I've never had a submissive dog so I wouldn't know. LOL!


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

SerenityFL said:


> Yah, I said they "can" be but in reality, I've never had a submissive dog so I wouldn't know. LOL!


Oh I wasnt trying to argue at all!(I dont know if it came off that way, just wanted to make that clear!:wink: :smile

But on the part about never having one before....neither have I! And let me tell you....getting with someone who has helped rescues before REALLY helps!! He has for SURE been abused and/or trained using force!:frown: He FREAKED out the other day when I was playing with Rhett and the mag-light and started the "herder yelp", grabbed Rhett by the collar and drug him away from me!! It took a LOT of time and work to get him so that he would come to me and take a cookie!!(about 45 min of working 1 on 1!!) It was SOO sad to think why he would be SOO scared of the mag-light!! :Cry:

But to the OP, sorry wasnt trying to take over your thread!:tongue1:


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## DoglovingSenior (Jun 26, 2011)

FOUND THE REPORTS! 2 pages are missing-they contained the type of "little things" that I think SerenityFL posted. others are each about 10 pages long with specific exercises. I will PM you.


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## chowder (Sep 7, 2008)

SerenityFL said:


> The point is, your dog is in charge, not you. Your dog is deciding who is allowed to come over and who isn't, not you. That's not the way it's supposed to be.
> 
> Now, everyone has an opinion and some people like things all fluffy and happy and nice and that would be great if it could be that way all of the time. The problem is, that's not reality. My hoodlums are NOT my equals. Are they family to me? Yes. Do I adore them? Yes. Would I do anything for them? Absolutely. (And they're starting to realize that.) But are they my equals? No. No more than a child is equal to his parents. Someone has to be in charge, (and some people don't like that word but it's the only word I know to use), and the dogs are not the ones for that job. A parent has to be in charge, not the child, is how I like to explain it.


This was a great explanation of handling a dominant breed. Sounds like your boy has some Chow in him! When you have a big dog that can think for itself, you have to KNOW that you can control it at all times. Rocky was entirely clicker and praised trained, but he also definitely knows who's in charge in the house. 

The vet actually asked me this week if Rocky would 'let me' put medicine on his paws. I just looked at him and said..."My dogs let me do anything I want to them." The vet pretty much knew that, after years of handling my chows, but Rocky was new to him and not being real social for his first visit there. I"m not about to have a 90 pound Chow that I can't handle. 

Now we're working on that with Shade. He's learning that he WILL get his toenails cut by me, and running off is not an option!!


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## Catahoula (Jul 13, 2011)

MollyWoppy said:


> I may be wrong, but I don't mind Mollie being on the bed. I do mind however, if she does not get off the second I tell her to. I often tell her 'off' just to test her and, once, 6 months ago she actually raised her lip to me, so she was not allowed back up for a week or so.
> 
> Also, I too have a dog that once was the life of the dog park (we have a nice one here), the happy go lucky, love every dog and person, lie on her back type. I was congratulating myself on a job well done, an ACD that was social and friendly towards other dogs, man, was I good or what?
> And, then she hit two years old. And, I'm obviously a useless dog trainer.
> ...


DogLovingSenior said the the report was pretty long, too much to type, but will fax it to me. I have the ability at work to scan documents into my computer to make them pdf files. Once I get the fax I can do that. I can either email it to those who want it, with DogLovingSenior's permission, or if I can create a thread and then add an attachment I could do that too.


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## DoglovingSenior (Jun 26, 2011)

Hi ALL! I have recovered from my exciting shopping trip yesterday-but that will be a different Thread. Ok the Dept was not psychology it was University of GA Behavior Service and I received their Dog Aggression Worksheet. They supplied me with various worksheets and some articles. The articles that I was able to find online were: TIER2: PROTOCOL FOR DESENTISITIZING AND COUNTER CONDITIONING A DOG (OR CAT) FROM APPROACHES FROM STRANGERS and B-10 PROTOCOL FOR DOGS WITH INTERDOG AGGRESSION and OWNER DIRECTED CANINE AGGRESSION I was to return if I spotted ANY OWNER Aggression.


Some of the tips written under CARE REQUIRED were : Use head collar for walks - Practice sit-stay exercises use motivating food treats on empty stomach - Ignore mouthing (this is a sign of aggression and Apollo was doing this-I had NO IDEA!) turn & walk away - Rewrd appropriate interactions. Avoid All situations and contexts that elict aggression ( owner safety is the primary goal) - Do NOT punish aggressive behavior, punishment can make the behavior worse and lead to owner injury ("& one dead dog" - Discontinue use of choke/prong collar - Use a Gentle Leader head collar on your dog, Use small food treats as rewards, Gradually increase the amount of time your dog wears it, Do not jerk on the lead: pull gently instead) - Do not allow strangers/children to approach or pet your dog. Avoid gestures your dog could perceive as a threat, such as reaching towards his head or face, leaning over him, or maintaining a direct stare

Behavior Modification - Work thru the SIT-STAY Program, rewarding your dog when he is calm and attentive to you (details followed) - Avoid praising your dog when he behaves inappropriately, you may inadvertantly reinforce these in appropriate behaviors - Reward appropriate behaviors when you observe your dog performing them on his own. In your dogs case (these were specific to my male) Ears forward, interacting without mouthing, ignoring growling by Tasha - Desensitize and counter-condition your dog to the following stimuli (these were also specific) approaches from people with other dogs, approaches from "friendly" dogs 

Aggression is a behavior that CANNOT be cured, only controlled. Although you have brought your dog to the Behavior Service for treatment for aggression, we cannot gurantee the he will never bite in the future. The treatment instructions recommended will assist in helping you control this behavior

My female that I have told you about could easily have been a fear biter. They spent hours with us. First watching my interaction with each dog, then they took the dogs, then they talked to me without the dogs, then they watched us together. I remember that it was so long that we spent the night in a motel. This is only some of the material & does NOT include some of their hand written instructions and the SiT-STay program & the charts that they drew up to track progress. Baylee was put down in '07 after 9 years with me at 11 yrs old (cancer). Apollo is still with me his behavior became so GREAT that he earned his CGC in '2001 with someone else handling him as I had 2 dogs there, and his HIC the same year. I was preparing to trial him in obedience (he was so good that I had visions of a CDX ) when my world fell apart. The one behavior that he never gave up was lifting my hands off of the keyboard when he thought I had been on too long <lol>

If you want the other part of this please PM me with your addy & I will copy & mail them to you.
I hope that I have the colors & underlinings right. Bye, Carol


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## DoglovingSenior (Jun 26, 2011)

Catahoula said:


> DogLovingSenior said the the report was pretty long, too much to type, but will fax it to me. I have the ability at work to scan documents into my computer to make them pdf files. Once I get the fax I can do that. I can either email it to those who want it, with DogLovingSenior's permission, or if I can create a thread and then add an attachment I could do that too.


Hi Catahoula, I must have gone to bed last night before reading your post. I will ck the PM for your fax # & do that before this day ends!


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