# I kicked my dog



## chewice (Jan 1, 2012)

Accidently.

Cashew sometimes only poos when he is offleash... so had him off right outside my place and he TAKES OFF. His recall is usually awesome, so I was calling and calling, he went around a corner and I found him playing with 3 moving cars. He finally comes to me and thinks we are playing, I catch him , am pissed off so making him go on his back and spank his bottom. Try to leash him and he BOLTS again. He runs past me and I stuck out my foot and I booted him...I dont know where but it hurt. 

Then we had the best leash walk home. Im still P.O.ed even though its my fault for not leashing.

I needed to vent since my bf is just laughing at how b*tchy im being.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Rebel used to have perfect recall, and since we moved here he just thumbs his nose at me and flips me off as he runs off as fast as he can.

Ticks me off, too. We have to pretty much start from scratch since he saw a woman walking four dogs and ran away with me hollering at him - one of the dogs the woman was walking was offleash and they all got into a scuffle.

And that poor woman - she was apologizing to ME because her dog attacked my dog. I kept telling her that's what my dog should expect when he goes running willy nilly into a pack of dogs that don't know him!

Can't have that happen again.


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## Maxy24 (Mar 5, 2011)

Well that stinks, try to keep your cool next time. Not just the kicking (that was actually reasonable as it wasn't the goal, you were just trying to block him/stop him) but more the catching then flipping and hitting. You're giving him a really good reason to never let you catch him again. And a really good reason to bite you.


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## Cliffdog (Dec 30, 2010)

I have given my dogs a good pop on the butt when they deserve it, but NEVER when training recall. Popping you're dog for bad recall makes them think, "Hm, when this person caught me, they hit me. Next time I won't let then catch me so I won't get hit!"

I never allow my dogs off leash except in a secure fenced area regardless of their recall. If there's a chance of cars bring around, do not let your dog off leash. It's a recipe for a dead dog.


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## BoxerParty (Nov 9, 2011)

I can totally relate. Lila ran off in the dog park a few days ago (her recall was awesome previous to this) and ran INTO THE MOTHEREFFING ROAD. So I *absolutely* understand how terrified and frustrated you must have been, and how completely difficult it is to keep your head.

But I must agree with the posters above - next time (heaven forbid!), do your utmost to keep your cool. Dogs don't have great understanding of "chains of causation." To humans, your response was a punishment for the failure to come back when you called. Cashew, unfortunately, sees only the link between his LAST action (returning to you) and your response. This one time probably hasn't done any harm - I'm sure you have an otherwise healthy and secure relationship with him. 

Recall is SO important that you have to be supremely careful that EVERY time they come back to you, it's a positive experience.


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

I feel you pain.

Sprocket is the only dog of mine that has iffy recall because he's a friggin brat! He literally looks at me and runs off. I hardly let him off leash anymore, it's just too risky. 

I would suggest major recall work with your dog.


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## chewice (Jan 1, 2012)

Usually we practice recall in a secure area and it is positive. 

So when recall isn't working...and positive re enforcement isn't working... just stern words that he is being bad? I don't see how rewarding a recall when the command was given 5 minutes later. The spank was out of pure terror that my dog was playing in traffic and he was still trying to get away from me.


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## chewice (Jan 1, 2012)

Cliffdog said:


> I never allow my dogs off leash except in a secure fenced area regardless of their recall. If there's a chance of cars bring around, do not let your dog off leash. It's a recipe for a dead dog.


Would love to do that... the closest fenced area to me is a 5 minutes drive...and I can't have a constipated dog. When I say he never poos on leash...he never. The only time he has is when he had giardia. So I'm stuck on letting him do his business or having a bummed up dog  Any suggestions on getting him to do his business would be helpful!


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## Cliffdog (Dec 30, 2010)

I'd rather have a "bummed up" dog than a flat dog with his guts splattered on the road, JMO. Hopefully someone'll give you some tips.


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## Maxy24 (Mar 5, 2011)

> So when recall isn't working...and positive re enforcement isn't working... just stern words that he is being bad? I don't see how rewarding a recall when the command was given 5 minutes later. The spank was out of pure terror that my dog was playing in traffic and he was still trying to get away from me


I completely understand being scared and just loosing it, I'm only saying that is could be detrimental to your recall. Even though you believe you are punishing him for not coming right away he is receiving the punishment when he HAS come or been caught by you. So for him the punishment is not for running off but for coming back or being caught. Running off was very pleasant. I can't tell you how many dogs that run off will absolutely book it the moment they see their owners coming to try to get them and no amount of temptation will get them to come back because they know what they're going to get. My childhood dog would always get beatings after we caught him. That made catching him really hard. It didn't stop his running away at all (he was a door darter). Dad finally stopped after I had repeatedly told him why it was stupid to do (once I was old enough to realize this) and when Max finally became aggressive during one of the beatings. Coming to you should always, 100% of the time be AWESOME. Make sure you never forget to reward him for coming, and try to be upbeat and inviting when you call him, not in a super serious angry voice. Often if a dog does ignore you, running away from him while making high pitched noises will make them come, or getting his attention with some noise and then lying down on the ground. But if your dog is blowing you off he shouldn't be off leash until that stops. This isn't just about me not liking when people hit their dogs, it is about the fact that it is useless for teaching a dog to come when called, it can only make things worse. 

Will he poop if he's on a long line (50 foot) or a tie out (so you are not right there next to him)? The long line can also be used for working to make his recall better in a safe manner. If he ignores he can be reeled in, if he comes you can heavily reward. He will soon realize that it's awesome to come when called and useless to ignore you. And only after you have several weeks of coming every time without having to be reeled in would I risk letting him off leash again. And if you ever notice him starting to blow you off or wait to long before coming I'd put that long line back on so he re-realizes it's not an option to ignore this command. Make sure you practice regularly and not just to call the dog inside. Most of the time you call him he should be allowed to get back to whatever he was doing after you reward him.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

My dog knows when he's not been minding - I've never done anything but give him lots of praise when he comes, but when he's not been coming when called and he finally decides to come. he comes back all hunched over and creeping like he's going to get beaten.

Now, maybe in a past life he got punished for returning but never by me - i find it kind of embarrassing, actually, that he does that. he doesn't do it if he comes to me the first time.

Can you get a tie-out? And just let him think he's alone. Or a zip-line, even a small one.


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## Makovach (Jan 24, 2012)

I have a feeling Annie and Tucker will have the same problem when we move to the condo! I have ALWAYS taught them not to poo while on leash, because the only time they were on leash, was to go for a walk! Their recall is not the problem, the problem for us in the condo place we are moving to, requires a leash. They can not be off leash EVER and you will be fined if you are cought with your dog off leash. I asked them if a 100ft leash was okay and they said aslong as i am holding it. I hopeing being able to get so far away from me will help with their potty time. 

As far as recall, Tucker can be a major butt somedays. They are compleatly free outside. No fence, No leash, No tie out. We stand at the door and watch them. He doesn't run off, but when its time to come in, and he doesnt want to, he will stay out by the field and not move. i have to act like a complete idiot to get him to come to me! I make the weirdest noises and jump around and play with his toys. Then being in the house with a goofy mommy seems more fun than standing out by the field alone.

Good luck with your pup!


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Makovach said:


> I have a feeling Annie and Tucker will have the same problem when we move to the condo! I have ALWAYS taught them not to poo while on leash, because the only time they were on leash, was to go for a walk! Their recall is not the problem, the problem for us in the condo place we are moving to, requires a leash. They can not be off leash EVER and you will be fined if you are cought with your dog off leash. I asked them if a 100ft leash was okay and they said aslong as i am holding it. I hopeing being able to get so far away from me will help with their potty time.
> 
> As far as recall, Tucker can be a major butt somedays. They are compleatly free outside. No fence, No leash, No tie out. We stand at the door and watch them. He doesn't run off, but when its time to come in, and he doesnt want to, he will stay out by the field and not move. i have to act like a complete idiot to get him to come to me! I make the weirdest noises and jump around and play with his toys. Then being in the house with a goofy mommy seems more fun than standing out by the field alone.
> 
> Good luck with your pup!


Do you have a "go potty" command? Perhaps you should start working with them now to to potty on the leash, so it's not a huge hassle when you get to where you are going.

I always considered our walks on leash to be poop times - at least, my dogs always poop when we are out walking.


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## Cliffdog (Dec 30, 2010)

I second the tie-out. Good way to give your pup some outside time without him feeling like you're on top of him. Just don't leave him out there unsupervised (I suggest).


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## chewice (Jan 1, 2012)

I took him to a ravine kinda close...far far away from the road. And I brought my ammo (food). Recall was obviously 100%. Ill keep that up. He had never bolted like that before and I knew right after scolding him I was in the wrong. 

Ive tried 50 foots, stupid retractables, "pretending" to take him off leash, taking him out every hour. He is so stubborn about it that he will hold it and just stop moving. I then take him off and he wanders maybe 5 feet from me does his business and comes right back to go back on leash. I praise him whenever he goes. I just don't get it. Im sure it will just click for both of us one day but until then im kinda stuck. I dont have a fenced in back yard so im walking.


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## chewice (Jan 1, 2012)

Cliffdog said:


> I second the tie-out. Good way to give your pup some outside time without him feeling like you're on top of him. Just don't leave him out there unsupervised (I suggest).


I wish. My condo has a walk out basement but its brand new and dirt/mud/wind blown shingles. I love living in a new community. When we finally get grass I do plan on it (as long as my neighbors don't mind). I have the full force of the condo board surrounding me. It will be an experience.


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

chewice said:


> I took him to a ravine kinda close...far far away from the road. And I brought my ammo (food). Recall was obviously 100%. Ill keep that up. He had never bolted like that before and I knew right after scolding him I was in the wrong.
> 
> Ive tried 50 foots, stupid retractables, "pretending" to take him off leash, taking him out every hour. He is so stubborn about it that he will hold it and just stop moving. I then take him off and he wanders maybe 5 feet from me does his business and comes right back to go back on leash. I praise him whenever he goes. I just don't get it. Im sure it will just click for both of us one day but until then im kinda stuck. I dont have a fenced in back yard so im walking.


It sounds like someone is trained quite well.....and it isnt Cashew!!:tongue1:

I would stick to the, "on the leash and when I say you poop rule." Mine are all trained to a "Go Potty" command...that way in super nasty weather, or when Im in a big rush I dont have to wait for 45 minutes for them to go!LOL

Give your self, and thus him, a certain amount of time and find somewhere that is the "poo spot" either making it when you go on a walk, or just go out to a spot....then stand with leash in hand, say "Go Potty" and stand there...you dont need to watch him or interact at all, if he starts goofing off or totally ignoring what he is suppose to do either get his attention(not in a playful way) and state "Go Potty" again...if he goes in that time allotted he gets LOTS of praise. If he doesnt, and if I was me he would go into his crate for a specif amount of time and we would start over....he will get it...just remember you want him to be the trained one...not just you!!:tongue:


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## chewice (Jan 1, 2012)

haha thanks scarlett o (needed some confidence after last night). When I do the 'go potty' he just pees. I was trying to do this command for a couple months and all he did was pee. So I took what he would give me and ran with it. Cash is the type that needs to have a good run/walk to get it all working before he needs to do #2. When he does his business I still do the go potty command but its not as effective. I think he has associated it with going pee...

I have a spot in mind and it is nice out so if it takes me all day i'll stand there until he has to go.


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## BoxerParty (Nov 9, 2011)

As far as getting him to poop on-leash is concerned, I'd go for tough love. He CANNOT hold it forever. Not possible. He's just learned that he will hold out longer than you will. 

I used to have a similar problem with Malcolm and Lila, but their issue was more that they decided that it was far more fun to sniff things/eat sticks/try to wrestle on walks than to do their business. I would spend upwards of 45 minutes walking up and down my street because they were still being housetrained and I didn't want them inside with full bladders. :/

I got fed up with that, obviously. So I made a new plan: potty break walks go to the end of the block and back. Every time. If they don't go during that time, they wait until the next walk. And IT WORKED. We now take very reasonable walks, and most of the time they go when they have the chance. If they don't, they hold it 'til the next walk.

Sounds to me like the key for you is to remember that there is nothing about being on-leash that is PHYSICALLY preventing Cashew from going. He is refusing to go, and has gotten away with it thus far. No problem - just decide that from now on, he doesn't get to tell YOU what he will and won't do. 

The technique Abi suggested sounds like it would be effective, or you can try the method I described, or any other method. The most important thing is that you need to be *100% consistent*. He WILL resist. He WILL hold it, possibly for days, because in the past this has been rewarding behaviour for him. And if you give in while he is resisting, he wins that battle and you have to start all over again.

So you have to be stronger and more stubborn than he is. AND YOU CAN DO IT. The first time is the hardest, but if you don't give in, he will learn quickly that he doesn't get to train you to make everything happen the way he wants it to. 

Dogs, man...


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

chewice said:


> Usually we practice recall in a secure area and it is positive.
> 
> So when recall isn't working...and positive re enforcement isn't working... just stern words that he is being bad? I don't see how rewarding a recall when the command was given 5 minutes later. The spank was out of pure terror that my dog was playing in traffic and he was still trying to get away from me.


do you kick your dog every day? i highly doubt it.

did you do it this time? slap your forehead for letting the dog get the best of you....know that you reacted out of fear, which is autonomic.....

and try not to do it again.

in the meantime, unless you're a chronic dog beater , move on and stop beating yourself up. k?


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

i taught my dog to "go pee." Never thought of number two. Luckily he doesn't know what the word really means. I know that some people teach commands for both, but I am glad to have one.


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## BarbaraClark (Oct 23, 2011)

I didn't read all of the posts, just the first page.

My dog, Chevelle, has a SPECTACULAR recall that never fails. Ever. And just for some tips, here's how we did it:

My boyfriend and I (you'll need two people) in a secure, fenced area, would run her between us. We'd stand about 200 yards apart, and we'd each have a small bag of treats or pieces of kibble, whatever. When she was with him, I'd shout for her. When she got to me, I'd treat, play for a second...then my boyfriend would call her. She'd go to him, he'd do the same thing I did. We would run her back and forth about 15 times. We did this every day for months. Seems like a lot, but it's actually how we exercised her. Now we exercise her in different ways, but her recall is just superb. She has NEVER not come to me. The only time she ever didn't come to me is when I accidentally dropped the leash and she thought I still had it, so she continued walking just ahead of me (the way she does on leash) and when I walked faster to grab her, she did too to keep her normal leash position. :lol: all I had to do was stop and give the "come" and "nose it" command in which she touches her nose to my hand. Either way, hope I was helpful.


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## Celt (Dec 27, 2010)

This "horror story" is the reason why I will never ever trust my dogs off leash in a non-secured area. Most of my dogs have had very solid recalls but all it takes is one "bad" recall to end in tragedy.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Celt said:


> This "horror story" is the reason why I will never ever trust my dogs off leash in a non-secured area. Most of my dogs have had very solid recalls but all it takes is one "bad" recall to end in tragedy.


I used to trust Rebel 100 percent anywhere. But like any bad owner, last fall when my dad got sick and we started getting ready to move I spent hardly any time with him. As a result, he doesn't mind me as much any more. 

We'll get back to where we were, but like with anything it takes consistency and repetition. 

I'm lucky enough where we are now that if he runs off he's not going to get hit by anything, and his nature is that he doesn't run completely away, but as soon as I get over this darn bronchitis we are going to start training on the leash again. I hate it, but it's my fault we're where we are - not his.


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