# Raw Replacements



## Gavin (Feb 14, 2012)

Hi


I have just joined this forum and have found it very informative. We have two very lively 2.5 year old Golden labradors, Max and jessie.















We switched over to a fully RAW diet about 3 weeks ago and they are loving it, well most of it.
My question is that the organ meat is very important for certain nutrients they need, but unfortunately the supplier we have only has liver at the moment, but the dogs won't touch it at all.
What are the other options that one could replace this with?


On a side note:
I would like to confirm that some of the fears expressed by some over Raw feeding is proving nul and void :heh:

1. Their teeth started improving withing days, their pearly whites look better than ever.
2. I am amazed at how they seem to know how to chew the chicken carcasses, so I highly doubt that the bones will ever be an issue.
3. There is absolutely no agression to towards each other or towards us, I can fiddle with their food while they are eating.
4. And as far as bacteria, we have found a supplier which gets human grade meat, thus this issue lays mostly with the owner and where and how they handle the food.


Thanks
Looking forward to many more discussions.


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## Unosmom (May 3, 2009)

yeah, liver can be an issue with some dogs, you can try lightly searing it in olive oil for few seconds and then slowly reduce cooking time with each feeding. 
I would check grocery stores since you can find kidney there as well (here we have couple american/mexican stores that carry it like sav mor and compare foods) also asian markets.


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## Love my lab (Dec 9, 2010)

Beautiful dogs  Only 3 weeks in is early to be putting liver in, because it is rich and could cause loose poops. It is usually best to get all your protiens in first. But some have fed liver early w/ no issues. So if it is working for you then just go with it. I didnt have any dislike issues when mine started with liver. I didn't realize so many dogs hate the stuff. lol. I read on here how some have to shove it, sear it, sprinkle stuff on it and at that point am very thankful mine just gulps it down. Some have suggested dehydrating it in pieces and for some reason the dogs like it better that way. I have no idea why deyhdrating changes the taste but it does, my dog hates raw goose but will eat it when we make jerky from it. Good luck w/ the liver.

For the other organs......do you live in an area where there are butchers? The organs I feed are from a local butcher. I can get spleen, kidney and liver. I will tell you that my dog loves liver and at first she didn't care for kidney. She now eats it just like other things, but it took time.


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

Its great that you joined! Raw is by far the best way to feed. We have had some issues in the past with liver as well. Some people choose to lightly sear it and have good luck getting them to eat it that way, then slowly back off the searing. Or, sometimes giving it frozen works. I guess some dogs just don't like the texture or something. Then there is the "shove" method which I sometimes still have to do. Just open the mouth, and put it at the back of the mouth to force them to swallow sort of like you would giving a pill.

Welcome, and enjoy the benefits of raw!:welcome:


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## Gavin (Feb 14, 2012)

Thanks everyone.

Maybe I will try the searing idea, Our supplier also say we can use ostrich heart, but he is in short supply at the moment.This a our general diet plan we have for them each week, are there anyways we can improve?

Monday Carcasses
Tuesday Carcasses
Wednesday Necks
Thursday Carcasses
Friday Feet
Saturday Carcasses
Sunday Pork Ribs


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## Ania's Mommy (Feb 8, 2009)

Welcome! Glad you're giving a raw diet a shot. It's one of the best things you can do, and I think you will continue to see improvement.


Gavin said:


> What are the other options that one could replace this with?


In short, no. Liver is an essential part of a diet as it contains things that other animal parts don't. Others have given you some suggestions on how to "make" your dogs like it. Try those. And keep in mind that whatever method works, you'll want to slowly phase the "trick" out. For example, if you sear/cook the liver, you'll want to gradually lessen the amount of cooking until they eat it raw. You may want to try a little tough love here. This is how you'd do that: Picky Eaters 101 | Prey Model Raw All that being said, some have found that no matter what they do, their dog(s) just won't eat liver. In which case, you'd go to the shove method.:heh:


> On a side note:I would like to confirm that some of the fears expressed by some over Raw feeding is proving nul and void 1. Their teeth started improving withing days, their pearly whites look better than ever.


Good. That's supposed to happen. :tongue:


> 2. I am amazed at how they seem to know how to chew the chicken carcasses, so I highly doubt that the bones will ever be an issue.


It won't. Cooked bones of any kind and the weight bearing bones from large animals (like cows) are the dangerous ones to stay well away from.


> 3. There is absolutely no agression to towards each other or towards us, I can fiddle with their food while they are eating.


Good. I leave my dog alone while she's eating for the most part, though.


> 4. And as far as bacteria, we have found a supplier which gets human grade meat, thus this issue lays mostly with the owner and where and how they handle the food.


Good. It always strikes me funny how people freak out about bacteria in a raw diet. Just handle it the same way you would your own meat, and all will be good. :thumb:

You mentioned that you could get heart. That's great, as I see it as an essential part of a raw diet. It's like, super concentrated meat. Lol. I want to point out, though, that as far as raw feeding goes, it is considered a muscle meat, not an organ. Organs would include stuff like liver, kidney, and spleen. Liver and kidney being vital to the diet.

Your game plan for the week looks good for now. But you're going to want to eventually work yourself up to feeding a variety of different proteins. I would say that the most basic diet would contain chicken, pork, beef, and fish. But many here include all kinds of other stuff like game meat, emu, llama, etc.

You're well on your way to becoming a pro. Keep up the good work!


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

Gavin said:


> Thanks everyone.
> 
> Maybe I will try the searing idea, Our supplier also say we can use ostrich heart, but he is in short supply at the moment.This a our general diet plan we have for them each week, are there anyways we can improve?
> 
> ...


Welcome to DFC!!:wave:

Your dogs are beautiful!!

As the others have said, organs should come in a little later in the processes(I didnt intro them to my adults till they where at the least 3 months in!:wink

As far as your feeding plan. What are we talking for "carcasses"? It is kind of a term that many people have many meanings for...so are we talking a carcasses with a lot of the meat still attached, all the meat still attached or nearly none of the meat still attached??

I would suggest starting in on more meat, looks like your a little bone heavy right now...so start with some of the meals having 1/4 of it being boneless chicken...once they are goo with just the 1/4 of the meal for a few days(nice stool, etc for 3-4 days) work them into 1/2 of the meal then once they are good with that for a few days see about most of the meal being boneless.


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## Makovach (Jan 24, 2012)

Welcome to DFC!

You babies are adorable!

Looks like you got the advice you needed! Hope you have a fun/ good time feeding raw! I can't wait to start.


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## kathylcsw (Jul 31, 2011)

My JRT Lola gave me a hard time in getting her to eat liver but as of this week I got the weekly 5% in her! Yippee! I will share what has worked with her.

1. At this point she will only eat beef liver. No pork or chciken at all!
2. She won't eat it raw, only frozen.
3. She would eat it if I rolled it in Parmesan cheese or covered it in some type of blood.

She still eats it frozen but I don't need to add cheese or blood anymore. I am not sure if she would eat a large quantity so I divide the 5% over 4-6 meals so it is only a bit.

Good luck with liver!


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

Love my lab said:


> Beautiful dogs  Only 3 weeks in is early to be putting liver in, because it is rich and could cause loose poops. It is usually best to get all your protiens in first. But some have fed liver early w/ no issues. So if it is working for you then just go with it. I didnt have any dislike issues when mine started with liver. I didn't realize so many dogs hate the stuff. lol. I read on here how some have to shove it, sear it, sprinkle stuff on it and at that point am very thankful mine just gulps it down. Some have suggested dehydrating it in pieces and for some reason the dogs like it better that way. I have no idea why deyhdrating changes the taste but it does, my dog hates raw goose but will eat it when we make jerky from it. Good luck w/ the liver.
> 
> For the other organs......do you live in an area where there are butchers? The organs I feed are from a local butcher. I can get spleen, kidney and liver. I will tell you that my dog loves liver and at first she didn't care for kidney. She now eats it just like other things, but it took time.


come on, fess up....you oiled this dog, right? or painted him with lustre shiny stuff?


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## Love my lab (Dec 9, 2010)

hahaha...no honest. Just good old raw feeding I guess. She does look super shiny in that pic though :wink:


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

please arrange to bring her over here, so i can see for myself. i thought my black dogs were glossy, but this is like glossy on 'roids.


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## bridget246 (Oct 26, 2011)

I still brush my dogs teeth. It doesn't smell nearly as bad a kibble but it didn't smell pleasant either with the raw diet. For a dog that likes looking into people's faces eyes having good breath is a matter of life or death lol.

Beyond that I brush her coat daily to keep it nice, fluffy and free of tangles. Going to put together an oatmeal bath for her soon. Just oatmeal and baking soda. I think it will do better with her coat that most store brought products.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

bridget246 said:


> I still brush my dogs teeth. It doesn't smell nearly as bad a kibble but it didn't smell pleasant either with the raw diet. For a dog that likes looking into people's faces eyes having good breath is a matter of life or death lol.
> 
> Beyond that I brush her coat daily to keep it nice, fluffy and free of tangles. Going to put together an oatmeal bath for her soon. Just oatmeal and baking soda. I think it will do better with her coat that most store brought products.


how long have you been feeding raw?


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Gavin said:


> Thanks everyone.
> 
> Maybe I will try the searing idea, Our supplier also say we can use ostrich heart, but he is in short supply at the moment.This a our general diet plan we have for them each week, are there anyways we can improve?
> 
> ...


Heart meat is essential from at least one source, but it wont replace the need for organ meat. Heart meat is a "transitional" meat meaning that its more nutrient dense than regular muscle meat, but not as nutrient dense as organ meat (secreting organs like liver, kidney, pancreas and spleen). As long as you have one source of organ (the ones listed earlier) your dogs' nutritional needs are met. The more variety the better, so liver and kidney are ideal as spleen and pancreas are harder to find. 

As far as getting them to eat organ meat...its like having picky kids eat their broccoli. Sometimes you have to force it. I have to force feed 2-3 of my dogs their organ meat depending on what we feed them. Have been doing it this way for years since searing is messy and time consuming and my girls wont eat it frozen. I just open their mouths and shove the organs down LOL

Welcome to the group. Don't hesitate to ask any and all questions!


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## Gavin (Feb 14, 2012)

Scarlett_O' said:


> Welcome to DFC!!:wave:
> 
> Your dogs are beautiful!!
> 
> ...



Hi. 

Thanks everyone for all the advice, I will try some of the techniques for getting them to eat the liver.
The carcasses actually still have quite a bit of meat, skin and a bit of fat on them, but will look into adjusting the ratio to a bit more meat.


Thanks for the clarrification on the heart, makes logical sense 
As our supplier is still quite small he doesn't supply any beef yet, and is also hoping to add ostrich neck to the mix.

So we will definately be looking into adding more pf a variety to their diet.
Below is also a few items we will possibly switch around on the menu every week.

Pork Meaty Bones 
chicken fillet strips
chicken heads
chicken gizzards (which they also don't seem to like at all)


Another question (sorry for all the Q's. just want to make sure we give them all they need.) Fish oil tablets, are these essential and if so how often to you give it to them?

Thanks again for all the advice.


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## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

Gavin said:


> Hi.
> 
> Thanks everyone for all the advice, I will try some of the techniques for getting them to eat the liver.
> The carcasses actually still have quite a bit of meat, skin and a bit of fat on them, but will look into adjusting the ratio to a bit more meat.
> ...


We try to feed whole fish as often as possible but since I am from the Pacific Northwest, safe fish for the dogs to eat isn't always accessible whether it be hard to find or too expensive. If we don't have any fish to feed them we substitute with salmon oil until we have fish for them again.

Is there a way for you to have more than one supplier? We buy our meat from multiple places. We have multiple small farmers we buy from as well as two different butchers with the occasional grocery store meat when suppliers don't have what we need, we find an affordable hard-to-get meat, or are in a pinch.


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## Gavin (Feb 14, 2012)

Hi all

Great news. Got our 2 Labs to eat the Chicken livers, just slightly seared it and seemed to have done the trick.

Thanks again for all the advice.

Our supplier has also found a good source for fish, so now we have added that to their diet as well. They love the fish. (We don't love the fish breath though  ).

We have a nice variety going on the menu:

Week 1:
Mon	Heads
Tue	Carcasses
Wed	Necks
Thurs	Heads
Fri	LIVER
Sat	Feet
Sun	Pork Ribs

Week 2:
Mon	Heads
Tue	Carcasses
Wed	Necks
Thurs	Heads
Fri	LIVER
Sat	FISH
Sun	Pork Ribs


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Glad they are liking the liver! On Fridays, are you feeding them 100 percent liver?


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## Gavin (Feb 14, 2012)

xellil said:


> Glad they are liking the liver! On Fridays, are you feeding them 100 percent liver?


Yes, It is. not a good Idea?


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Gavin said:


> Yes, It is. not a good Idea?


I don't think it's bad, just unusual! Most dogs can't handle that much richness so soon after they start raw. Your dogs are doing great.

Everyone feeds a little differently and some people who have been feeding raw a long time feed weekly organs. just not sure I've seen someone pretty new to raw feeding do it.

As long as you are not feeding them too much, i would say you are doing spectacularly well.


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## Gavin (Feb 14, 2012)

xellil said:


> I don't think it's bad, just unusual! Most dogs can't handle that much richness so soon after they start raw. Your dogs are doing great.
> 
> Everyone feeds a little differently and some people who have been feeding raw a long time feed weekly organs. just not sure I've seen someone pretty new to raw feeding do it.
> 
> As long as you are not feeding them too much, i would say you are doing spectacularly well.




Thanks, watched them carefully after they had finished their first bowls of liver, no vomiting, upset tummies or anything.
They are really enjoying their food and seem to be fine with one meal a day. 

Previously (when they were on science diet) they use to grab and wolf down the fruit and veggie snacks (we give this to them in the mornings, main meals are in the evenings), now they seem to take it in stride.
Which is showing me that they are getting the nutrients their bodies need.

Already converted 3 more people to the raw feeding way, 1 x family, 1 x Work colleague and a lady we met at a pet adoption day where we volunteer.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Well, I've not converted anyone and I feed my dogs three times a day. Plus I give organs daily. So I would say you are light years ahead of me!


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