# Vent: Cringe-worthy Advice from a Vet Tech



## SpooOwner (Oct 1, 2010)

One of my neighbors is finishing Vet Tech school and some of the advice she dishes out is absolutely cringe-worthy. Most recently, she told me that if you're close to a cut-off in topical flea/tick meds, you should go UP in dosage. According to her, even though my dog is only 50 lbs, I should use topical flea/tick meds for dogs in the 55-80 lb weight range. I understand that this is the kind of crap that they're taught in class, but how does she completely turn off her own judgment and accept this obviously incorrect advice?

For the record, this is the same person who: has an overweight, undersocialized dog; feeds her own dog according to the estimates on the back of the kibble bag; is surprised that her dog doesn't lose weight; switches to a low fat dog food targeted towards overweight dogs; is still surprised that her dog hasn't lost weight; and thinks I'm killing my dog by feeding raw. I guess I shouldn't be surprised that she's willing to ignore what she sees (my dog: healthy, fit, well socialized; her dog: overweight, various ailments, undersocialized) in favor of what people tell her.

I just wish I had any confidence that when she starts practicing, the vets/other techs would set her straight.


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## RachelsaurusRexU (Sep 4, 2010)

That's very sad. It upsets me how difficult it is to find a great vet. I get that some of them are just going by what they're taught, but since when is that good enough? People get into that field I'm assuming because they want to help animals. You think they'd do the extra research to either back up or discredit their claims or recommendations so they ARE actually helping animals.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

I have changed vets before because of stuff like that. I don't know how much vet techs know, but it is usually less than me. 

now, I have to admit, the YUCK factor for me is pretty high in feeding my dogs raw chicken. Bleck. So I get why people don't like the idea of it. I'm a little queasy about it, myself. It's hard not to project my opinions onto my dog. I have to remind myself that I would not really like to lick my hiney either, but they seem to like it alot.

I'm curious, though - why would she think you should dose your dogs in direct defiance of what it says ON THE BOX??? That's a little out there.

Give her some time, though - people who are learning new things often think they know EVERYTHING, until something happens to remind them that they really know not very much.


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## AmeliaPond (Mar 25, 2011)

Ridiculous. I changed vets after my vet always got annoyed when I had my own opinions about my dogs health. She basically pulled the "well, you aren't a vet but I am" card on me and her attitude really made me angry.

So far, our new vet hasn't pushed anything at us so that's good.

But it is hard to find a good vet these days. It's sad.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Hey now! Some vet techs know what they're talking about LOL! But yeah, that advice is terrible. I tell people that if their dog is on the borderline weight to go with the lower dose, not the higher dose. Does your vet know their tech is giving out this advice? If so and they support it I would start looking for a new one...

Unfortunately my knowledge and experience cannot be utilized at my work. I can't tell you how stressful it is for me and the vet I work for that we have differing opinions on nutrition and healthcare. People here dread going to the vet for fear of being judged for the decision to feed raw. Its a daily occurance in my life. It's awkward and it just plain sucks that I have to bite my tongue when someone asks if Science Diet is a good food, or if they can do all the vaccines the same day because it's more convenient. It's a high priority of mine to find a more open and raw friendly vet to work for when I move. It'd be awesome to be able to help people at my work the way I help people here.


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## wags (Jan 31, 2009)

Just proves vets are not well taught on nutrition! As for the dosage on the tick flea meds may be that shes just not getting the weight right. My vet never recomends that I get a diffrent weight than what is correct. Wonder if she feel asleep for that part of the program haha!


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## SpooOwner (Oct 1, 2010)

This advice was among the most bizarre that she's given. Just to be clear: she is my neighbor and not at all associated with my vet, who is absolutely amazing. He's holistic and holds seminars promoting raw feeding, titres (v. vaccines), etc. I'm not going to say that all of his patients take advantage of his knowledge, but he's awesome.


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## AmeliaPond (Mar 25, 2011)

DaneMama said:


> Hey now! Some vet techs know what they're talking about LOL! But yeah, that advice is terrible. I tell people that if their dog is on the borderline weight to go with the lower dose, not the higher dose. Does your vet know their tech is giving out this advice? If so and they support it I would start looking for a new one...
> 
> Unfortunately my knowledge and experience cannot be utilized at my work. I can't tell you how stressful it is for me and the vet I work for that we have differing opinions on nutrition and healthcare. People here dread going to the vet for fear of being judged for the decision to feed raw. Its a daily occurance in my life. It's awkward and it just plain sucks that I have to bite my tongue when someone asks if Science Diet is a good food, or if they can do all the vaccines the same day because it's more convenient. It's a high priority of mine to find a more open and raw friendly vet to work for when I move. It'd be awesome to be able to help people at my work the way I help people here.


I'm a bit dense...why is it bad to do vaccines on the same day? My dog has always gotten her yearly stuff on the same day every year.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

It's just not good to overload the body all at once. For best immunity you should wait a month between each vaccine. For example, do rabies one month and wait another month before getting a DHPP. But don't do them the same day because it's hard on the immune system.


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## AmeliaPond (Mar 25, 2011)

DaneMama said:


> It's just not good to overload the body all at once. For best immunity you should wait a month between each vaccine. For example, do rabies one month and wait another month before getting a DHPP. But don't do them the same day because it's hard on the immune system.


My dog got the 3-year rabies vaccine, I believe. I think she's actually due for another one this June.

Other than that, the only thing she got in 2010 was "Vaccine - Distemper Parvo DAPP." I think that is all in one shot through, if I'm remembering correctly.
She gets the Boardetella nose spray thing every 6 months though.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Do you board her or do doggie daycare where regular vaccines are required?


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## SpooOwner (Oct 1, 2010)

Is there no titre for bordatella?


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## AmeliaPond (Mar 25, 2011)

Yes, she is boarded once in a while. She's required to be vaccinated and have boardetella for the kennel (and legally she has to have a rabies vaccine.) We also do K9 Advantix and Heartgard Plus every month. Is it bad that I do all of these things on a regular basis? Now I'm all paranoid about it.

(Sorry to hijack the thread.)

I just checked...she doesn't need another rabies vaccine until June 2012.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Since you board her regularly there really isn't a way to get around vaccinating so often, unless you find a kennel that will accept titers. I am personally not a fan of over vaccinating my dogs, its just not good for them at all. Especially when vaccines are shown to be effective for 7-15 years, there's really no need to give them more often than that at the very most. My dogs have to legally have rabies and I'm still undecided on whether or not I will get it updated. Here in CO it seems we have to vaccinate for rabies to protect our dogs from the law, not the actual disease :frown:

I do heartguard only during the HW season, and only once every other month. There's no reason they need it once a month, which is overkill. I don't do Advantix at all since fleas and ticks aren't a huge problem here. Maybe someone else can shed some light on that one.


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## AmeliaPond (Mar 25, 2011)

I don't know what "titers" means.

I don't mind doing vaccines and stuff, I guess. I'm also very pro-vaccine for people too. I haven't researched much when it comes to dogs, which I'm sure is horrible of me. But I'm still a better safe than sorry person so that's why I've always done vaccines just like how I get myself a flu shot every year and I've gotten many vaccines over the years too.

As far as I can tell, I think my dog only had one bad thing happen that was probably from her vaccine. After her shot in 2009, I noticed a lump near the base of her neck. I asked the vet if it could be from the vaccine and she said no. I, stupidly, believed her. Had it tested to see what it was. It wasn't conclusive so to be safe I had it removed. I have a feeling it WAS from the shot.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Repeated vaccines can cause a whole host of problems in dogs. 

Tetanus shots are supposedly good for ten years or more. Does that mean you should get one every year "just to be safe"? Absolutely not. Same goes for dogs. DHPP and rabies shots are proven to be effective for 7-15 years in dogs. Why then is it pushed to be given annually or every three years? Money and the need to feel more "safe" when in reality you may be doing more harm than good. 

Titers are a way to measure immunity by showing levels of antibodies present for rabies or DHPP. The thing is, most municipalities won't accept titers as proof of immunity, further pushing the need for repeated vaccines.


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## RaisingWolves (Mar 19, 2011)

I don't get the bordatella vaccine? My pup was vaccinated and still caught kennel cough from the doggie daycare. 
Maximus caught it from our vet's office. 

My husband compares the vet's office to Jiffy Lube....you go in for a basic check-up and they up-sell you on all the needless extras.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Bordatella is pretty much a joke. It only covers about four strains of kennel cough when there are like thirty strains. It also doesn't prevent a dog from getting the ones it does cover, just makes the symptoms less severe.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

DaneMama said:


> Bordatella is pretty much a joke. It only covers about four strains of kennel cough when there are like thirty strains. It also doesn't prevent a dog from getting the ones it does cover, just makes the symptoms less severe.


Yes, but unfortunately unless you don't take your dog out into public, you have to get these things.

We don't board our dogs, but we do go to the dog park, we go to dog class, we sometimes go to other public events like mutt walks - all require bordatella, and many require yearly rabies.

It kinds of sucks, frankly.


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## RaisingWolves (Mar 19, 2011)

DaneMama said:


> Bordatella is pretty much a joke. It only covers about four strains of kennel cough when there are like thirty strains. It also doesn't prevent a dog from getting the ones it does cover, just makes the symptoms less severe.


Yeah, my pup's cough was not bad at all, and lasted 2.5 days. She enjoys daycare too much and it is required. My senior boxer just doesn't want to play with her so I have to take her for serious playtime. DH is wanting to add another pup to the pack.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

The only thing required to go out into public by law is rabies. Unless specified by rules posted. I go to dog parks that don't require anything and the trainer I go to doesn't require vaccine history, she does limited vaccines and more natural pet care herself.


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## BrownieM (Aug 30, 2010)

I am newly aware of the dangers of overvaccinating as Millie is *my* first dog. She was given the combo vaccine last year as a pup because I didn't now any better. Luckily, I have found a holistic vet to give her individual 1 year booster vaccines this May. After these vaccines, I will not have her vaccinated for anything (except bordatella) for three years. After the three years are up, I will have her rabies done as required by law. I will titer her for the other things to see if revaccination is needed or not. The local kennels here do accept titers. 

I will be revaccinating her for bordatella yearly because I do take her to doggie daycare and participate in a local dog meetup group that require bordatella. I also board her at the kennel a couple of times a year when I leave for vacation.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

It sucks that the pet industry is controlled so much by vaccines :frown:


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

DaneMama said:


> The only thing required to go out into public by law is rabies. Unless specified by rules posted. I go to dog parks that don't require anything and the trainer I go to doesn't require vaccine history, she does limited vaccines and more natural pet care herself.


Yes, I could walk my dog with only a rabies vaccine - come to think of it, I am not positive about the dog park - I don't think my smaller dog has had a bordatella vaccine, as she has never been to dog class or boarded and she doesn't like social activities with lots of dogs, so I don't think she would have had it on her papers when we went to get dog park tags. I know they had to have the DHPP, also. With my bigger dog it's important that he go out and interact with other dogs so I just suck it up and get the shots, and hope for the best.


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## BrownieM (Aug 30, 2010)

xellil said:


> With my bigger dog it's important that he go out and interact with other dogs so I just suck it up and get the shots, and hope for the best.


I am in a similar predicament. I'd suggest at least getting the vaccines administered separately instead of the combination vaccine. I'd also suggest only vaccinating every 3 years, at most, providing titers if the establishments accept them.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

BrownieM said:


> I am in a similar predicament. I'd suggest at least getting the vaccines administered separately instead of the combination vaccine. I'd also suggest only vaccinating every 3 years, at most, providing titers if the establishments accept them.


I will look into titers. One vet told me that my city requires yearly rabies - now, I took her word for that but I am thinking now I should look more closely.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

I would definitely look more closely. And definitely do what BrownieM mentioned...your vet shouldn't charge you an exam fee every time you take your dog in for separated vaccines.


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## schtuffy (May 17, 2010)

Louis was almost 13 weeks old when we got him, so the breeder had already given him 2 rounds of puppy shots. I didn't know any better at the time and took him to a big corporate vet clinic (Banfield), and they wouldn't accept the dates the breeder had given me, so just started Louis over on all of his shots. He had 4 rounds of DAPP, all _within_ a 2 month period. I cringe when I go back and look at his shot records...he must have gotten like 20 vaccines in the first 6 months of his life...and by 6 months, he was already having adverse reactions to them. Luckily, I started doing research and found a vet who supports minimal vaccinations. I only get him the rabies vaccine now (grudgingly). It still upsets me sometimes when I think about all the shots they subjected him to...I complained to the vet tech at our new clinic and her piece of consolation was "Well, the important thing is now you _do_ know better," which assuaged my guilt...I can't change what has already happened, but at least i did something to put an end to it. So Spoo, I wish there was a 'dislike' button for your post :tongue:...but hopefully one day, she will know better. In the meantime, for ever X number of people who are misled or 'miseducated' there are X number of people who stumble onto forums like this one and find out the truth!


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

schtuffy said:


> Louis was almost 13 weeks old when we got him, so the breeder had already given him 2 rounds of puppy shots. I didn't know any better at the time and took him to a big corporate vet clinic (Banfield), and they wouldn't accept the dates the breeder had given me, so just started Louis over on all of his shots. He had 4 rounds of DAPP, all _within_ a 2 month period. I cringe when I go back and look at his shot records...he must have gotten like 20 vaccines in the first 6 months of his life...and by 6 months, he was already having adverse reactions to them. Luckily, I started doing research and found a vet who supports minimal vaccinations. I only get him the rabies vaccine now (grudgingly). It still upsets me sometimes when I think about all the shots they subjected him to...I complained to the vet tech at our new clinic and her piece of consolation was "Well, the important thing is now you _do_ know better," which assuaged my guilt...I can't change what has already happened, but at least i did something to put an end to it. So Spoo, I wish there was a 'dislike' button for your post :tongue:...but hopefully one day, she will know better. In the meantime, for ever X number of people who are misled or 'miseducated' there are X number of people who stumble onto forums like this one and find out the truth!


I cringe when I think of alot of things I have done to my dogs. I'm sure I'm still doing things that aren't good for them. Just live, and learn, and hope you don't kill them. I screwed up horribly with my kid, too - and he turned out ok. My problem is I trust what vets say too much.


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## RaisingWolves (Mar 19, 2011)

xellil said:


> I cringe when I think of alot of things I have done to my dogs. I'm sure I'm still doing things that aren't good for them. Just live, and learn, and hope you don't kill them. I screwed up horribly with my kid, too - and he turned out ok. My problem is I trust what vets say too much.



Same here. I listened to everything my vet recommended 10 years ago. I was the same when it came to my own health. I've learned to be a health advocate for myself and my dogs. I research everything. Most doctors do not like it, but they do not live with the consequences of bad decisions. They are not God, and they are not all knowing. I would consider a lot of vets "quack" doctors. I could go on about the horrible recommendations my ex-vet gave for my boxer girl (waiting in heaven), but I won't. You live and learn.


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## AmeliaPond (Mar 25, 2011)

I have to admit though, I do trust a good vet more than I trust random stuff I find on the internet. At least with the vet, I know where the info is coming from and that she went to school to be a vet.

Same goes for my own health. You have to put at least some faith/trust in your doctor because they are educated whereas there are many uneducated people posting nonsense on the internet.

You have to know the source. And know if you read something from a holistic site, it's going to be very skewed one way whereas something from a vet is going to be very skewed the other way. I think finding the middle ground is always the best.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

I actually do like my vet - she is young, and has made some mistakes (missing my dog's heart problem for 9 months was one of them; assuming I am going to cheap out and not telling me about more appropriate but more expensive tests or treatment was another) but she always has discussions with me, not orders, and she spends alot of time with my dogs.

And, since I go regularly to the ER and see other vets, and they invariably tell me something that doesn't agree with what she says, she is never defensive - we discuss it.

I think it's because she is young and not totally sure of herself - but she is one person who I won't feel uncomfortable telling her I am going to feed raw (we actually have appts. tomorrow) without her treating me like I am an idiot.

I think she is an awesome vet. One of her techs is like some mentioned on this board (bossy and ignorant) but the rest are also very, very nice. Anyone who talks baby talk to my dogs and acts like they are the most wonderful dogs they have ever seen have to be doing something right, in my book.


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## RaisingWolves (Mar 19, 2011)

I do not replace a doctor's advice with random information on the Internet. I research so I know what questions to ask. I research so i can make informed decisions.
Unfortunately, there are very few vets I would go to for nutritional advice.

My ex vet removed a bug bite from my female boxer. I didn't know any better. I trusted him. My girl had a lump that was growing and shrinking. He did not aspirate, but he told me that if this were his dog he would remove the lump ASAP. I believed him and rushed my girl into surgery. The pathology report came back that it was a bug bite. I forgave him for the mistake and stayed with him.BTW, his mistake cost me $700 and my boxer the pain of surgery & a 8" scar on her back. Had I researched his advice, I would have known we needed to do a fine needle aspirate. 

When my girl was 8 years old, I took her in to see him because she was urinating a lot. He scared me into bladder testing....cancer he thought. We put our girl through expensive bladder tests only to find out she had a healthy bladder. She had a series of problems over the next several months so I took her to see a different vet who ran blood work (something the first vet did not do). The blood work came back cushings disease. She had a large brain tumor and a fast growing mass in her spleen. 

I didn't know any better. I relied on one doctor's opinion and he was so far off it was scary. I won't make that mistake again.

Bottom line....I research everything and ask a lot of questions!


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## BrownieM (Aug 30, 2010)

AmeliaPond said:


> I have to admit though, I do trust a good vet more than I trust random stuff I find on the internet. At least with the vet, I know where the info is coming from and that she went to school to be a vet.
> 
> Same goes for my own health. You have to put at least some faith/trust in your doctor because they are educated whereas there are many uneducated people posting nonsense on the internet.
> 
> You have to know the source. And know if you read something from a holistic site, it's going to be very skewed one way whereas something from a vet is going to be very skewed the other way. I think finding the middle ground is always the best.


I don't think you should trust everything your vet tells you and I don't think you should trust what everyone on internet forums says either. I think you should do your own research. Read actual research articles. By doing so, I learned that my vet was giving misinformation in many regards. For example, telling me to spay my bitch at 4 months. Additionally, suggesting Eukanuba, Purina or Science Diet. Also, suggesting that I _not_ have a preventative gastropexy performed during spay surgery. Finally, giving my dog the one year rabies shot when he could have had the three year rabies shot and giving my dogs combined vaccinations.

Also, I'm not sure what you mean about a holistic vet's opinion being skewed. I suppose this is true - a holistic vet has their own belief system while a traditional vet has their own belief system. However, both vets base their practice on facts. A traditional vet chooses to focus on treating symptoms with medicine while a holistic vet focuses on treating the whole body. I personally use an integrative vet that combines traditional medicine with holistic ideas. This truly is the best of both words.


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## PeanutsMommy (Dec 7, 2008)

makes me happy i have a great vet and techs that i feel comfortable with and they don't just give you thoughtless responses. if they don't have an answer for me they do some research and get back to me not just randomly spout something off they were told once.


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