# So frustrated!



## molbert73 (Jan 16, 2011)

It's been a while since I have posted here. The last time I did I believe I was thinking of switching from Pro Plan to Fromm gold adult. 
Well I really liked the Fromm and so did the girls but Olive (the one that I am currently showing) started to turn rust/pink (she is mostly white). Had a chat with my vet about it and she thought that maybe it was the vitamins and minerals in it. 
After MUCH research and chatting with the owner of an awesome little pet store we decided to switch her over to Earthborn Holistic primitive natural as I feel it is the best that we can do with our budget and I can get it locally. I also rotate between Grandma Lucy's (pork) and the earthborn canned as toppers. 
The discoloration has pretty much disappeared with the change :biggrin:
So here is our current problem. The gas!!!!!! Holy moly! It is off the charts terrible. To the point that I am embarrassed to have people over.
She has always been a bit gassy but this is crazy!
The other issue that I am having is that she is not as filled out looking as she was on Fromm. Her muscle tone is fantastic, even with the lack of exercise that winter brings around here. While this may not be a problem for most, the fact that I show her and you can see her spine right now isn't good.
She also gets Natures Farmacy digestive enhancer and gain and shine.

What would you guys do???? Help!!!!!


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## Kritter (Jan 9, 2015)

She's beautiful! To me the gas means food is not agreeing with her. I would make a switch. Have you looked into feeding green tripe to help with digestion?


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## molbert73 (Jan 16, 2011)

Thanks for responding  And thanks for the compliment. I just adore this smelly girl.
I have not tried tripe, but I'll look into it. 
I just wish I knew what it was that's bothering her. 

It's been suggested before to try Farmina so I am now seriously considering it. Anyone that wants to chime in I would love your thoughts.


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## Kritter (Jan 9, 2015)

It's hard to pinpoint an exact ingredient. Could just be the entire formula. Farmina is pretty big on this site it seems. Only thing that bothers me is potato is pretty high on the list of ingredients. Have you looked at Acana? I use Orijen a few times per week, but feed raw otherwise. I would suggest buying the smallest bag if your are going to try a new food. That way if it doesn't agree with her you can move on to something else. I know it costs more, but so does the alternative, a smelly dog or donating the leftover food. I hope someone answers you on Farmina. Good luck.


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## molbert73 (Jan 16, 2011)

Unfortunately Acana and Orijen are out of our budget. 
I know this sounds strange but I feel that this breed does better with some grain (as long as they aren't allergic) in their diet. Therefore I am looking in to the Farmina ancestral grain.


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## Shamrockmommy (Sep 10, 2009)

Which Fromm did you try? I have a bichon that stains on a lot of foods, and Fromm is not one. She and my 3 other dogs do wonderfully on Fromm. 

Maybe try a grain free one, like Lamb and Lentils or Pork and Peas? 

Or even just Purina Proplan. I know it's a long shot but a lot of gun dog/conformation people use and nothing else and the dogs are in great shape.

I spent all last year trying out all kinds of different foods, and this year, back to Fromm. Just can't get the same results on anything else. 

Good luck


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## molbert73 (Jan 16, 2011)

I fed the gold adult. I was soooo happy with it. The girls looked fantastic condition wise. But I was going broke buying chalk to cover the discoloration  
I am just not a fan of the grain free. I really feel like there is something about it that is not ideal for my dogs. 
The thing that is keeping me from going back to pro plan is that they were never thrilled to eat it. I keep hearing how dogs become total snobs about food when they eat farmina and that alone makes me want to try it. 
I think what I am going to do is try the farmina and if it doesn't solve the problems then I will go back to pro plan or possibly give Fromm another try.


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## LProf (Nov 12, 2013)

I have been feeding the Farmina Ancestral Grain to my two dogs with great results. I rotate among the Lamb, Chicken and Cod, changing after each bag. I could not be happier with the results. Poops are small, no gas and they both are looking great. 

I would really suggest you give it a try.

In fact, my local health Pet Market in Jupiter Florida does not carry it , and I like the food so much that I am now using mail order from Amazon.


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## Kritter (Jan 9, 2015)

LProf said:


> I have been feeding the Farmina Ancestral Grain to my two dogs with great results. I rotate among the Lamb, Chicken and Cod, changing after each bag. I could not be happier with the results. Poops are small, no gas and they both are looking great.
> 
> I would really suggest you give it a try.
> 
> In fact, my local health Pet Market in Jupiter Florida does not carry it , and I like the food so much that I am now using mail order from Amazon.


Chewy.com also sells Farmina. Not sure how the price compares to Amazon though. I would actually try the Ancestral Grain one myself if they sold smaller bags.


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## molbert73 (Jan 16, 2011)

Thanks for all the input. So I went ahead and ordered a bag from Chewy.com :biggrin: I ended up getting the ancestral grain cod variety. I do plan to rotate the proteins if I like it. 
Also, the little pet store that I like to shop at said that they could keep it in stock for me if I want and the price will be the same as chewy or possibly a bit less :thumb:

I'm excited to try it. I really hope they like it and it is what works for them as I'm getting sick of stressing out over it.


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## Kritter (Jan 9, 2015)

That's great. I will be interested to hear how it works out for you


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## Shamrockmommy (Sep 10, 2009)

How's she doing on it so far?

Honestly, for her show career, I'd put her back on proplan and do the toppers with it if it is keeping her coat whiter.


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## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

Why, whats wrong with trying Farmina? Its a fabulous quality food.


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## A&W (Apr 26, 2014)

Kritter said:


> It's hard to pinpoint an exact ingredient. Could just be the entire formula. Farmina is pretty big on this site it seems. Only thing that bothers me is potato is pretty high on the list of ingredients. Have you looked at Acana? I use Orijen a few times per week, but feed raw otherwise. I would suggest buying the smallest bag if your are going to try a new food. That way if it doesn't agree with her you can move on to something else. I know it costs more, but so does the alternative, a smelly dog or donating the leftover food. I hope someone answers you on Farmina. Good luck.


Potato is a very small part of the Farmina GF food. It only appears high because the company does not split the carbohydrate ingredients into 5 or more ingredients like Champion does.

Also, just so you know, the order of ingredients does not mean much unless you know the weights. In the Farmina GF Chicken I use, the first two ingredients are at least 55% of the food, potato is about 15%, and there is fish and dried egg following.

You need to look at total carbohydrates and Farmina's foods are very low to low depending on the formula.

They even label the 'as fed' animal protein, which is 95% of the total 'as fed' protein. No other company has the balls to do that.


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## Kritter (Jan 9, 2015)

A&W said:


> Potato is a very small part of the Farmina GF food. It only appears high because the company does not split the carbohydrate ingredients into 5 or more ingredients like Champion does.
> 
> Also, just so you know, the order of ingredients does not mean much unless you know the weights. In the Farmina GF Chicken I use, the first two ingredients are at least 55% of the food, potato is about 15%, and there is fish and dried egg following.
> 
> ...


So are you saying that the Orijen Red I use is more peas and lentils than meat? I'm not sure how to determine that myself so I'd love the breakdown on how it works. 

If you are feeding the Farmina Chicken Adult GF I am only seeing chicken at about 51%, potato is listed as the 3rd ingredient but shows no percentage. How do you figure it at 15% when it's that high on the list.


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## LProf (Nov 12, 2013)

Kritter said:


> Chewy.com also sells Farmina. Not sure how the price compares to Amazon though. I would actually try the Ancestral Grain one myself if they sold smaller bags.


Amazon sells the smaller bags. I got the small bags of the Ancestral Grain Cod, Chicken and the Lamb from them.


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## Kritter (Jan 9, 2015)

LProf said:


> Amazon sells the smaller bags. I got the small bags of the Ancestral Grain Cod, Chicken and the Lamb from them.


Thanks! I may try the Lamb then, wish they had a Beef product.


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## Kritter (Jan 9, 2015)

molbert73 said:


> Thanks for all the input. So I went ahead and ordered a bag from Chewy.com :biggrin: I ended up getting the ancestral grain cod variety. I do plan to rotate the proteins if I like it.
> Also, the little pet store that I like to shop at said that they could keep it in stock for me if I want and the price will be the same as chewy or possibly a bit less :thumb:
> 
> I'm excited to try it. I really hope they like it and it is what works for them as I'm getting sick of stressing out over it.


How is the Ancestral Grain Farmina working out for you? I'm interested because I have a skinny dog, and as long as I add oatmeal to her raw food she seems to slowly gain weight. Are you seeing improvement in your dog's weight?


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## molbert73 (Jan 16, 2011)

So far so good with the farmina. The girls aren't totally switched over yet because I have a bit of the earthborn to use up so I am not seeing much in the weight gain area yet. Will keep you posted on that 
They really seem to like it which is good. I swear they could be dog food testers. If they will eat it any dog will!


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## Kritter (Jan 9, 2015)

Thanks, then I will check back on the weight gain. I have a chihuahua/whippett who's all hip bones, ribs, and spine. I can't seem to get her to fill out. The Farmina Ancestral Lamb might be good for her I am thinking.


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## A&W (Apr 26, 2014)

Kritter said:


> So are you saying that the Orijen Red I use is more peas and lentils than meat? I'm not sure how to determine that myself so I'd love the breakdown on how it works.
> 
> If you are feeding the Farmina Chicken Adult GF I am only seeing chicken at about 51%, potato is listed as the 3rd ingredient but shows no percentage. How do you figure it at 15% when it's that high on the list.


What I am saying is that the two foods have exactly the same carbohydrate content. The difference is that Regional Red (or any version of Orijen) has NINE ingredients that provide carbohydrate and Farmina has only ONE. Also, FIVE of the vegetable ingredients in Regional Red contains high levels of protein whereas the ONE vegetable ingredient in Farmina, potato, has very low protein.

Take a good look at the GA's of both foods, they are nearly identical but Regional Red just spreads them out because there are so many and includes vegetable sources of protein. Farmina has more animal protein, it is quite obvious.

You cannot just look at the ingredient order unless you understand splitting and relate it back to the GA.


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## Kritter (Jan 9, 2015)

A&W said:


> What I am saying is that the two foods have exactly the same carbohydrate content. The difference is that Regional Red (or any version of Orijen) has NINE ingredients that provide carbohydrate and Farmina has only ONE. Also, FIVE of the vegetable ingredients in Regional Red contains high levels of protein whereas the ONE vegetable ingredient in Farmina, potato, has very low protein.
> 
> Take a good look at the GA's of both foods, they are nearly identical but Regional Red just spreads them out because there are so many and includes vegetable sources of protein. Farmina has more animal protein, it is quite obvious.
> 
> You cannot just look at the ingredient order unless you understand splitting and relate it back to the GA.


Thanks. I see your points as I have been looking closer and trying to understand this stuff over the last few days. Farmina would not be more economical for me as I only buy 5 lb bags but I might give the Ancestral Grain a try. I like that they use only one meat protein per formula, unlike Orijen.


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## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

I love the fact they use dehydrated meat proteins instead of meals. You can't tell the quality of the meals that go into kibble unless you can get the ash/phosphorus content of the food. Also, that they don't have any GMO ingredients.


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## Kritter (Jan 9, 2015)

A&W said:


> What I am saying is that the two foods have exactly the same carbohydrate content. The difference is that Regional Red (or any version of Orijen) has NINE ingredients that provide carbohydrate and Farmina has only ONE. Also, FIVE of the vegetable ingredients in Regional Red contains high levels of protein whereas the ONE vegetable ingredient in Farmina, potato, has very low protein.
> 
> Take a good look at the GA's of both foods, they are nearly identical but Regional Red just spreads them out because there are so many and includes vegetable sources of protein. Farmina has more animal protein, it is quite obvious.
> 
> You cannot just look at the ingredient order unless you understand splitting and relate it back to the GA.


So as I said, I can see your point. But not really. Can you, or anyone, give an example of why one food is higher in meat protein than another? I'm not a science person, so I guess all the reading I have been doing is not sinking in. Can you tell me exactly why the Farmina is higher in meat protein than Orijen? And what is better about potato than peas or lentils? Don't legumes have a lower GI than potatoes?


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## molbert73 (Jan 16, 2011)

Alright, after going through a bag of the Farmina ancestral grain cod I am not super impressed. Olive has not started gaining weight, the gas is still bad and both dogs smell yeasty to me. I would say that they like it ok, not in love with it like a lot of people claim. 
I'm feeling like it isn't worth the additional cost and the fact that I have to order it


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## Celt (Dec 27, 2010)

Just some personal experiences, but my lot absolutely hate any "fishy" kibbles or canned (we've tried a lot of different brands and fish "types). The picky prince won't go beyond long range sniffing of fishy foods. In kibbles chicken and lamb are the go to proteins. 
I have noticed that "grain" heavy foods (especially corn ones) put weight on to a dog. I feed purina healthy morsels in my feeding cycle. i know many here think this is absolutely horrid food, but when picky prince does everything in his power to get to a food to eat (he won't even do that for cat food or even meat), i'll buy that food. Feeding this had the picky prince putting on weight so he doesn't look "super skinny", and I have to be careful or my female will get a bit "chubby". 
On kinds of proteins, I prefer meat ones because i believe dogs are carnivores for one and secondly, it seems to digest " better" (smaller poops) than plant based foods.


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## molbert73 (Jan 16, 2011)

I don't usually have a problem with fish based foods. When I fed purina they definitely liked the sensitive skin and stomach (salmon) over the sport (chicken). And they eat this pretty well, better than many foods I try, but I didn't get the "OMG, I LOVE this food" reaction I had hoped for. And the yeasty thing kind of baffles me. Maybe it's the spelt?? Their ears don't appear to be infected....yet. Keeping a close eye on that.

I think it's back to Fromm for us. This time I will keep my canned toppers limited to the ones that I know do not cause discoloration. Also I am thinking of adding apple cider vinegar to their food. Thoughts???

And thanks for your input, Celt, it's nice when other people understand the skinny dog problem. I just with I had that problem with myself and not the dogs


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## Shamrockmommy (Sep 10, 2009)

I keep coming back to Fromm as well. Have you tried the Gold line? I was sticking to the grain free four star but finding dogs are doing just as well with the gold and the grain inclusive four star formulas. 

I use the gold cans too and yogurt with their kibble.


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## 1605 (May 27, 2009)

We have never found other makes of dry food with as high a protein & fat content as EVO. This is the only brand of food that keeps weight & muscle on our very active GSPs.

They are on EVO Turkey & Chicken (grain free). If they've spent a hard day in the field training, trialing or hunting, we'll also add some extra protein like salmon, chicken, or pork -- whatever we happen to have on hand.

FWIW,


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## molbert73 (Jan 16, 2011)

I feel like I should do a quick update 
Well I bought a bag of Fromm gold and we had a MAJOR hunger strike in the house  I took that as a sign to give Farmina another chance. Ordered another bag of tghe cod ancestral grain and a bag of chicken ag. Olive has been eating it quite well this time around. The yeasty smell that they had is gone. I wonder if that was more of a detox than a reaction??? Weight gain has been slower than I would like but I'll take what I can get  
I showed Olive last weekend and my friend that hasn't seen her since January (when I was feeding earthborn) said that she looked fantastic! Yay!
I guess I'll stick with farmina for now since I have 3 more bags on order


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## A&W (Apr 26, 2014)

molbert73 said:


> I feel like I should do a quick update
> Well I bought a bag of Fromm gold and we had a MAJOR hunger strike in the house  I took that as a sign to give Farmina another chance. Ordered another bag of tghe cod ancestral grain and a bag of chicken ag. Olive has been eating it quite well this time around. The yeasty smell that they had is gone. I wonder if that was more of a detox than a reaction??? Weight gain has been slower than I would like but I'll take what I can get
> I showed Olive last weekend and my friend that hasn't seen her since January (when I was feeding earthborn) said that she looked fantastic! Yay!
> I guess I'll stick with farmina for now since I have 3 more bags on order


I am guessing this picky dog is a young dog and intact since you show her. Intact dogs are picky when young, its hormones. Worse thing you can do is switch around foods they get more picky.

One other point, they will usually gain weight internally before you can see it. So be patient.

Farmina palatability is very high, not surprised she wanted it back.


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## molbert73 (Jan 16, 2011)

A&W said:


> I am guessing this picky dog is a young dog and intact since you show her. Intact dogs are picky when young, its hormones. Worse thing you can do is switch around foods they get more picky.
> 
> One other point, they will usually gain weight internally before you can see it. So be patient.
> 
> Farmina palatability is very high, not surprised she wanted it back.


She is 2 and yes she is intact. It is a breed thing. Ask anyone in the pointer world about it  Then add the factors you mentioned and it can be a nightmare. 
I'm just glad that she is eating it well. I am also giving her a nigh time snack of chicken, rice, egg and coconut oil to try and get weight on before our national specialty next month. After that it's tough love!


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## Sapphire-Light (Aug 8, 2010)

My toy poodle was a nightmare to feed too when he was younger, he has quite settled now like a year ago

Still I take precautions because I don't want to get the problem back like it was before, for example I feed him before (or sometimes after) someone is eating at the house

Also he's picky in the kibble size and shape, he prefers small kibble and the pieces something he can be able to "hold" easy in between his teeth while he chews this is why he likes flat kibble shapes and hate complatly round or square shapes


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## Shamrockmommy (Sep 10, 2009)

I really hate the picky young dog stage. I think every single one of my dogs has gone through that between 7 months and 2 years. 

Eventually with Jack, I did tough love as well. He went 3 days!!!! without eating. I did absolutely no toppings, just plain kibble with warm water. Once he started to eat that I gave him very small bits of my usual toppers, yogurt in the am, canned Fromm in the pm. He still gets very small amounts of toppers now, just to keep him eating well. 

As an aside... I've done the raw/homecooked route for years before we got Jack (I have 3 other dogs yet) and I'm completely uninterested in cooking for them anymore. Or raw. Thing is, they are doing just as well on 99% commercial foods as they were on raw/cooked. Good enough for my little pain in the butts! LOL

Good luck with your girl. Love Pointers!


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