# Such a Truthful, Factual and Well Written Essay



## monster'sdad (Jul 29, 2012)

BARF Mythology


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

Ya know you can find all types of stuff on the internet, some that will fit how YOU view things but we are a smart group here and actually do our research and do talk to people who have done this far longer than you have been around so go ahead and spew all you want...It will not make people buy what your selling and god knows you sell dog food no matter what you say.........


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## monster'sdad (Jul 29, 2012)

whiteleo said:


> Ya know you can find all types of stuff on the internet, some that will fit how YOU view things but we are a smart group here and actually do our research and do talk to people who have done this far longer than you have been around so go ahead and spew all you want...It will not make people buy what your selling and god knows you sell dog food no matter what you say.........


That link wasn't meant for you but #6 is the one I like best.


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## Sheltielover25 (Jan 18, 2011)

whiteleo said:


> Ya know you can find all types of stuff on the internet, some that will fit how YOU view things but we are a smart group here and actually do our research and do talk to people who have done this far longer than you have been around so go ahead and spew all you want...It will not make people buy what your selling and god knows you sell dog food no matter what you say.........


Lol right? It's like who exactly are you trying to convince? You have to know by now we all here think for ourselves and not only that many of us have seen firsthand what these foods he suggests really do.

And who cares if dog competes and eats crap. Many sports players eat what I consider to be crappy diet.


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

If this is bashing barf, why is it in the Dry and canned food section?


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## DaViking (Sep 27, 2011)

Lol, most who do their own research to figure out things isn't even close in opinion to sheltielover, whiteleo and a handful others. That's rich, but whatever, I'm off, happy new year!


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## SaharaNight Boxers (Jun 28, 2011)

I've been to that breeders website quite a few times actually. Nice, informative site and I've read this particular article before. My main problem with it is how biased it is. This breeder has been around for almost 40 years in her breed. She's going to be biased for and against certain things and she's going to be set in her ways. I also don't believe the article is fair on saying how BARFers or PMR raw feeders look at feeding. I have found BARFers look more at ingredients than the nutrients which I agree with, but they also know what nutrients are in the veggies, fruits, ect. I believe if anything PMR feeders look more at the nutrients because they don't feed veggies, fruits, lots of supplements, etc. They also took small scenarios and made it seem like the norm. I really don't think it's a fair article.


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## Sheltielover25 (Jan 18, 2011)

DaViking said:


> Lol, most who do their own research to figure out things isn't even close in opinion to sheltielover, whiteleo and a handful others. That's rich, but whatever, I'm off, happy new year!


Based on how many likes my comments get, I'd have to disagree 

Also, I've learned a lot from most people on here. Most are open-minded and understand that these studies on foodsthat you two post are backed by people who have a vested interests in them mostly being SALES.


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## BeagleCountry (Jan 20, 2012)

The link was posted to cause controversy. Until people stop feeding his ego by responding he will continue.


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## bett (Mar 15, 2012)

BeagleCountry said:


> The link was posted to cause controversy. Until people stop feeding his ego by responding he will continue.


Bingo!
Nothing new.


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## Roo (Oct 17, 2010)

Weird that this was posted in the kibble section. . . 
It appears that Steven E. Crane is a retired competitive intelligence manager for Hills, not a pet food company I would associate truthful and factual with.


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## Foodie (Apr 25, 2010)

I am a person of science and absolutely like facts, I don't recommend any foods or sell food and IMO the article _was_ written with a bias but it does contain some truthful information. There is no perfect method for feeding dogs, there's positives and negatives to all methods if your eyes (and brain) are open to see them. I believe that a diet consisting of a good quality dog food with 10-15% whole food scraps will provide me with the best longevity, it's the best of both worlds.


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

monster'sdad said:


> BARF Mythology


Do always believe EVERYTHING you read? 


I personally believe PMR is actually the correct species appropriate food rather than BARF. Why? because just like kibble, BARF is FULL of useless unnecesary ingredients that are of no use to a dog. BUT, with that said, considering the raw factor in BARF I also believe it is still a huge step above kibble. Its right in the middle- better than kibble, not as good as PMR.


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

monster'sdad said:


> That link wasn't meant for you but #6 is the one I like best.


She can read whatever link she wants. Pm it to someone in specific if it's private.


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

Sprocket said:


> If this is bashing barf, why is it in the Dry and canned food section?


Exactly. Why not bring it to the raw section? Oh, he has more "back up" here in the kibble section.


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

BeagleCountry said:


> The link was posted to cause controversy. Until people stop feeding his ego by responding he will continue.


Very true, which makes him a troll, does it not? I think the mods should just delete this whole thread.


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## monster'sdad (Jul 29, 2012)

The thread is valuable for people that you berate for not doing the best for their animals. I want you to provide scientific proof what you feed is better than Pro Plan. I want proof, peer reviewed proof. 

By the way, in 2006 10 PHD's declared that domesticated dogs are Omnivores.

Who should I believe?


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

monster'sdad said:


> The thread is valuable for people that you berate for not doing the best for their animals. I want you to provide scientific proof what you feed is better than Pro Plan. I want proof, peer reviewed proof.
> 
> By the way, in 2006 10 PHD's declared that domesticated dogs are Omnivores.
> 
> Who should I believe?


That's up to you. You can believe whoever you want. As can I, and you can bet it won't be the same as you.


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## monster'sdad (Jul 29, 2012)

naturalfeddogs said:


> That's up to you. You can believe whoever you want. As can I, and you can bet it won't be the same as you.



As I asked for, please present the peer reviewed studies that show raw feeding is better than Pro Plan.


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

You also asked who you should believe.......


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## bett (Mar 15, 2012)

naturalfeddogs said:


> Exactly. Why not bring it to the raw section? Oh, he has more "back up" here in the kibble section.


it's kind of too bad because every once in a while, i do learn some stuff from him. 
this however, is not one of those times, and it's more the delivery half the time, that what is said.

i thought dr tim's was IT? i guess we all switch around somewhat.

this must be the longest amount of time he's not been banned. the lab boards dont find his "way" particularly amusing.
i see he's ignoring me, so i must be doing something right.


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## DaViking (Sep 27, 2011)

naturalfeddogs said:


> Very true, which makes him a troll, does it not? I think the mods should just delete this whole thread.


Then there are a lot of Trolls here. Take it from a Norwegian, we invented trolls  

Nothing wrong with posting the link imo, it have some food for thought. If you don't agree with it's content doesn't mean you have the right to have it removed. Wow, imagine I'd request that every time I see some insane ignorant pot stiring claims or links in other sections here? Ppl need to chill here, don't get so effing offended over everything folks, relax!


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## monster'sdad (Jul 29, 2012)

There is nothing wrong with what I posted in the Kibble section because it deals with commercial foods. There also is nothing wrong with me asking raw feeders in the kibble section to show data as to why it is better. The reason they get angry is that the data doesn't exist, what does exist are studies that show them generally to be deficient.

They all lurk here to criticize people and to push agenda.









By the way that it was a great dry food does for a dog @ 8 years old.


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## bett (Mar 15, 2012)

monster'sdad said:


> There is nothing wrong with what I posted in the Kibble section because it deals with commercial foods. There also is nothing wrong with me asking raw feeders in the kibble section to show data as to why it is better. The reason they get angry is that the data doesn't exist, what does exist are studies that show them generally to be deficient.
> 
> They all lurk here to criticize people and to push agenda.
> 
> ...




there's nothing wrong with where you posted, in mho, and you know that's not really the issue.
you're a smart guy. you know what the real issue is.


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

monster'sdad said:


> There is nothing wrong with what I posted in the Kibble section because it deals with commercial foods. There also is nothing wrong with me asking raw feeders in the kibble section to show data as to why it is better. The reason they get angry is that the data doesn't exist, what does exist are studies that show them generally to be deficient.
> 
> They all lurk here to criticize people and to push agenda.
> 
> ...



I guess raw is deficient. That's why before man exsisted, wild dogs developed their own kibble.....
If you want to feed kibble, feed it. If you want to feed raw feed it. Neither is going to change the others mind so really this is a pretty pointless conversion, IMO.


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## Roo (Oct 17, 2010)

> There is nothing wrong with what I posted in the Kibble section because it deals with commercial foods. There also is nothing wrong with me asking raw feeders in the kibble section to show data as to why it is better. The reason they get angry is that the data doesn't exist, what does exist are studies that show them generally to be deficient.
> 
> They all lurk here to criticize people and to push agenda.


Now you're generalizing disrespectfully to all raw feeders, claiming that we're ALL here to criticize people and to push an agenda? Really? As a raw feeder I'm really getting tired of being lumped into one certain sterotype group of raw feeders simply because of the diet I choose to feed.


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## DaViking (Sep 27, 2011)

Foodie said:


> I am a person of science and absolutely like facts, I don't recommend any foods or sell food and IMO the article _was_ written with a bias but it does contain some truthful information. There is no perfect method for feeding dogs, there's positives and negatives to all methods if your eyes (and brain) are open to see them. I believe that a diet consisting of a good quality dog food with 10-15% whole food scraps will provide me with the best longevity, it's the best of both worlds.


+1 Couldn't agree more.


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

monster'sdad said:


> There is nothing wrong with what I posted in the Kibble section because it deals with commercial foods. There also is nothing wrong with me asking raw feeders in the kibble section to show data as to why it is better. The reason they get angry is that the data doesn't exist, what does exist are studies that show them generally to be deficient.
> 
> They all lurk here to criticize people and to push agenda.
> 
> ...


Do you honestly think that the way we feed our dogs, not backed by a kibble co. that there are stats on it? Come on now, you know just as well as I that the only reason any of those studies are even done is to make kibble look good and increase their profits. Who would make money on a PMR? Not the kibble co. so why would anyone do it? Tell me?


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## DaViking (Sep 27, 2011)

whiteleo said:


> Come on now, you know just as well as I that the only reason any of those studies are even done is to make kibble look good and increase their profits.


Stop lying.


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

DaViking said:


> Stop lying.


No one is lying here and it's obvious to me that you have been brainwashed


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

DaViking said:


> Stop lying.


Myths About *Raw*: Is there scientific *research* to back *raw* *diets*?


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## DaViking (Sep 27, 2011)

whiteleo said:


> Myths About *Raw*: Is there scientific *research* to back *raw* *diets*?


You are out of control irrational. This has nothing to do with my stop lying comment.


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## Herzo (Feb 5, 2011)

Calm down everyone. We know if we are being honest that we like this debate if we didn't we wouldn't read the thread. It was a dead give away. It really doesn't bother me if he starts these threads I get a kick out of them. It only bothers me when people get whinny and you can't say this and you can't say that, oh... oh...... he hurt my feeling.

Goodness leave him on he says some really good things, then again he say's some really dumb ones. WE have been through this and have lost some real good people over fighting over this stuff. I for one am sick of that. As long as there is no name calling and real bad stuff can't we just debate with out the, this one needs banned and that one needs banned.

This forum is not nearly as informative as it was just a few months back. Well I guess it is the raw section that has had some of the best members that either were banned or left because of being harasses through mods from kibble feeders.

I think it is a good thing that the kibble section has gotten better this is dog food chat after all and I do believe that there are allot more kibble feeders than raw feeders. How ever, raw is becoming more prevalent and people do need help with it. That's one of the many reasons I like this forum it has many very knowledgeable people on it. We have lost many of them and I don't want to lose more. Could be why kibble feeders wanted them gone and as far as I'm concerned, and you know who you are, you should be ashamed of yourselves. 

We all know there is not only one way to feed a dog, to this I think most of us agree. There is always going to be this debate. We do our home work then decide for ourselves what is best for our dogs or other pets and ultimately us. 

So lets not whine to the mods lets have a good debate and be civil. And yes we all know he started this just for this very reason. And monster'sdad they don't all lurk here to push agenda. It looks a bit like that's why your here though. Those that cry the loudest!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And of course whiteleo is right dog food company's make no money on PMR. Your the one always saying people believe in advertizing but it sure seems like you do. And I don't see why kibble feeding proof is much of a poof unless I have missed something. 

Your dog if that is yours is beautiful by the way we should see more of them.


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

Here's the deal guys:
The amount of reported posts going on is insane when NO ONE broke the rules. 
Monsters Dad didn't break a single rule by posting this link, why would the nods remove it? There are a handful of Rae feeders here that honestly are SO dramatic and defensive of raw its childish. Get. Over. It. There will ALWAYS be people who don't think its best and guess what... It won't have any effect on your life or your dogs at all. I read some of these posts and its hard to believe we are all adults. Honestly, people keep complaining that Monsters Dad and DaViking are "disrespectful" and I'm seeing a whole lot more rude, disrespectful posts being directed AT them than I am FROM them. 
Do I agree with Monsters Dad? No. Never. On anything. I think kibble defied logic and that anyone who needs "proof" that real, whole foods are superior to totally processed foods is completely off their rocker.... But guess what? This is dog food chat!! PMR feeders, BARF feeders, hone cookers, and kibble feeders are welcomed. Or at least... Should be. Why then do a few here get their panties in a twist over what other people believe? Agree to disagree, debate, LEARN from each other... But knock off the disrespect. You're making yourselves look awful. 

If this had been posted in the raw section, people would have cried over it. It was posted in the kibble section, and people are crying over it. Not everything posted here HAS to support raw.


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

I'm really sick of being the bad guy when my hands are tied due to reported posts. And for the record, I've never banned anyone.


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