# Top five harmfuldog food ingredients.



## Maverick

What are the top five most harmful ingredients?


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## LoveNewfies

Ethoxyquin
BHA
BHT
Propylene Glycol
Artificial Colors

From their I will add carbohydrates and any soy products.


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## RawFedDogs

I agree. :smile:


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## rannmiller

I'd rank corn right up there with artificial colors too.


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## zomo

Powdered Cellulose (saw dust), Peanut Hulls , i just saw the most disgusting recipe for a food that I ever saw except for that of OL Roy. What made this one twice as disgusting is that it was diagnosed by a vet.  Ingredients as follows : Ground whole Grain Corn, powdered cellulose 15% (source of fiber) Chicken by Product meal, Soybean Meal, Peanut Hulls 11% (source of fiber) Chicken Liver Flavour, Soybean Mill Run, Dried Egg Product (aka egg shells) Corn Gluten Meal, Soybean Oil Preserved by BHT,BHA and ethoxyquin.


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## rannmiller

Was that a SD prescription food?


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## zomo

rannmiller said:


> Was that a SD prescription food?


Hills :frown:


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## rannmiller

Yep, sounds about right. That's what my poor 11 year old lab/shepherd was on for 8 years before we finally realized it's absolute crap and that's probably why the poor dog was falling apart. She's better now that she's on raw though!

It's amazing how "modern medicine" really messes things up sometimes.


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## zomo

rannmiller said:


> Yep, sounds about right. That's what my poor 11 year old lab/shepherd was on for 8 years before we finally realized it's absolute crap and that's probably why the poor dog was falling apart. She's better now that she's on raw though!
> 
> It's amazing how "modern medicine" really messes things up sometimes.


Just my opinion but I think it is highly unethical for vets to be able to sell food in their practices. Obviously they are not thinking of the welfare of the animal when they prescribe this stuff. There is a conflict of interest when the dog will be coming back with other ailments because his food is of the lowest quality. And guess who is making money on medicines it will take to make him feel better. Why do they sell a food that has known carcinogens?


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## rannmiller

I agree! Couldn't have said it better myself! I know a guy who has an obese cat with diabetes on Hills Prescription food because his God awful vets insist it's for the best. Maybe if he a) didn't feed the cat crap to begin with and b) tried feeding it like a cat (meat based diet) the poor thing wouldn't be so fat and miserable. This man LOVES his cats and I feel like the vets are killing them slowly just to drain him of his money, and he does it because they tell him it's for the best? That's just sick and wrong IMO


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## lorih1770

I know SOME vets that honestly believe SD and Hills are the absolute best foods available. They are trained in vet school (coincedently SD sponsors) that SD has the best nutrition. I think they only have one nutrition class in vet school and it's sponsored and taught by SD representatives. I really wish vets would educate their clients on nutrition, but I guess they would have to first educate themselves. 

It's frustrating too because I have 2 different very good friends that take great care of their pets and will ONLY listen to their vet. One has a lab that's 7yrs old and has a "mysterious" illness. Went through tons of testing and found nothing explainable. They have always fed Nuto because the "breeder" recommended it. The dog also gets very, very sick after her yearly shots and of course they keep doing ALL the shots every year. I gently suggested trying to switch to a higher quality food to see if it would help and sent some info on shots, but they insist their vet know best. The other friend's dog is a huge mess (constant ear infections, skin infections.etc) also had a "mystery" illness several years ago. They spent way over 5k in one shot on testing and a long hospital stay. The poor little dog literally has one foot in the grave and she's been eating Hill's her whole life because the vet is trying to fix her. Ha-ha, I just remembered my two friends have the same vet!


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## rannmiller

Sounds about right. The vet industry (because that's what it is) is disgusting sometimes. I was recommended a vet who's supposed to be amazing this weekend, I have yet to find one I truly love who isn't way too pricey or might retire at any moment. 

And I hate it when people think their breeder knows best because usually their breeder knows who gives them the best deals on dog food. It doesn't take a whole lot to get two dogs to procreate unless they're one of those difficult breeds like bulldogs (poor bulldogs). And most of the bulldog breeders I've talked to feed Canidae and know at least a little bit about nutrition. Hmmm, coincidence? There seems to be a connection between the more effort one has to put into advancing a breed and their knowledge of nutrition.


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## ILuvLabs

Here's a terrific article by Susan Thixton that certainly fits in here:

Is it Ethical for Veterinarians to Recommend Pet Foods?


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## TippysMom

Very interesting article. My vet always asks what we're feeding our dogs, but has never made a "recommendation", though they do offer some (crap) for sale there. I found it slightly discouraging that when I told the vet assistant what I feed them, she said "I've never heard of that one".


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## rannmiller

I've noticed almost anyone who works in a veterinary clinic besides the vets themselves (still with many exceptions), don't know a lot about pet food besides the mainstream brands. One of the most popular vet clinics in Reno has never heard of Blue Buffalo. I know they're fairly new but I wouldn't exactly call them underground either. 

That was a good article, it makes me want to move to Europe.


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## zomo

Just book marked that site very interesting Thanks for sharing !


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## whiteleo

I guess I'm pretty fortunate to live where I do, people in Bellingham have been doing the organic, real food thing for probably 15-20 yrs. When I just recently told my vet that I was feeding my dogs a raw diet, he didn't bat an eye, I even had to take one of them in today because she is a gulper, and as many times as she has been able to puke up the turkey neck with no problem, today took alot longer, so I took her in to have her looked at to make sure there wasn't any damage to her throat. No lectures, just maybe she shouldn't have turkey necks if she likes to swallow them instead of chewing completely.


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## beachgirl

lorih1770 said:


> I know SOME vets that honestly believe SD and Hills are the absolute best foods available. They are trained in vet school (coincedently SD sponsors) that SD has the best nutrition. I think they only have one nutrition class in vet school and it's sponsored and taught by SD representatives. I really wish vets would educate their clients on nutrition, but I guess they would have to first educate themselves.


This is so true. Its just like a lot of the physicians............they don't know anything about nutrition....just drugs. There's no training or very very little in med school. Lots of vets where I live carry Science Diet. I guess they just don't know any better


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## claybuster

I would put tomato pomace in the top 5. Cheap by-product of canning industry leftovers. A lot of skin so plenty of potential for pesticides and it is very acidic.


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## ChattyCathy

Oh My God!!!! I went to the vets w/my dogs and the vet and I started talking about nutrition and I knew more than he did and I'm a beginner on this site and subject. I was so amazed at how little he did know. Wow! They should never recommend anything until they're educated about the subject in its entirety!!!!!!


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## rannmiller

Haha good job! I did that with two vets once, it was so fantastic. Isn't it great we now have the resources to defend ourselves from the so-called "educated?" Yes I know they go to school for 4 years for it and get about $200,000 in student debt (unless Science Diet takes care of you, of course) but they have to go for another 4 years to be considered a nutritionist/nutrition specialist and even then you still have them arguing about what is best. It's like this in many different career fields, but it just goes to show you that the more you educate yourself and keep an open yet skeptical mind, the better off you'll be.


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## ChattyCathy

I agree!!!!


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## clockcycle

LoveNewfies said:


> Ethoxyquin
> BHA
> BHT
> Propylene Glycol
> Artificial Colors
> 
> From their I will add carbohydrates and any soy products.


BHT, that preservative they have in Kellog's Cereals? it's carcinogenic correct?


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## rannmiller

Yeah, and I found BHA in a boxed cheesecake mix once, now I'm scared to use it!


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## LoveNewfies

Scary, isn't it?


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## claybuster

I going to have to put beet pulp in my top 5. I think it is a bad ingredient because it is the beet pulp that causes the kibble to expand when hydrated. Another expansion type fiber like tomato pomace (but I think worse), so right now I have two of my top 5 harmful ingredients, beet pulp and the tomato pomace. Beet pulp can expand up to 250% or 2.5 times it size. I think it is high fiber diets that are causing most of the problems with dogs today. The scratching, itching, hotspots, hair loss, chewing spots raw, allergies from A-Z.
Fiber is what makes dog food both affordable and profitable...at the expense of the dogs overall health and nutrition.

1: beet pulp
2: tomato pomace
3: ?
4: ?
5: ?

I'll give the other three some thought and get back to you later hopefully.

Charlie


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## claybuster

I have number three, but going to have to lump them all in one barrel, and that would be any gluten source protein. That would be the Brown Rice, the barley, Wheat, etc. You can make and exception (sort of) for something like 'pearled barley' because the outer hull is removed, but not often seen because it is more expensive. White Rice is another for exception for it is brown rice with the outer hull removed. Gluten source proteins are cheap protein sources for the industry, has a biological value of zero to the dog,
and often used to substitute for that of animal source proteins (deceiving the consumer thinking they are getting something meat based like beef, chicken, or lamb). Gluten when dissolved forms a glue-like substance. The post office used it for making stamps stick (remember, the kind you use to have to lick). Gluten is NOT an ideal protein source for carnivores. It therefore IMO is dangerous because the health and nutrition of the dogs suffer when animal source proteins are not used.

1: Gluten source proteins
2: beet pulp
3: tomato pomace
4: ?
5: ?

? get back to you shortly!

Charlie


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## kayharley

My 13 year old Cairn was put on the Hills C/D diet because of oxalate stones. She had them removed with surgery but the food was to prevent them from recurring. Our vet wanted her on it indefinately...I don't think so.
This food had 22% fat in it and here are the first ingredients....Brewers Rice, Corn Gluten Meal, Chicken By-Product Meal, Pork Fat


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## rannmiller

Sounds like a typical $80 bag of SD prescription food.


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## sunsetts

*Hi. I Agree...
Sad, Shame... *


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## claybuster

#4 Soy

1: Gluten source proteins
2: beet pulp
3: tomato pomace
4: Soy


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## Doc

1. BHT
2. Soy
3. Wheat
4. Sorghum
5. dye
5. gluten

Not in any kind of order.


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## NoI8u

I might as well make my first post a good one. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say any ingredients from a manufacturer who makes bad dog food to begin with. That includes those corn feeds and lawsuits.


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## EnglishBullTerriers

Doc said:


> 1. BHT
> 2. Soy
> 3. Wheat
> 4. Sorghum
> 5. dye
> 5. gluten
> 
> Not in any kind of order.


Haha!! I think you need to take a trip back to kindergarden cause 5 doesn't come after 5. 6 usually does!  hehe! So funny!!


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## CorgiPaws

EnglishBullTerriers said:


> Haha!! I think you need to take a trip back to kindergarden cause 5 doesn't come after 5. 6 usually does!  hehe! So funny!!


No no no. 6 ALWAYS does. 
duhhhh.


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## wags

The Dog Food Project - Ingredients to avoid


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## steve

*Top five harmful*

By-products because of the toxins stored there
Separated grains because they lose any benefit there may have been in them
Bad Fats, Animal fat General, not specefic
Bad Preservatives BHA, BHT, ethoxyiquin, Propylene glycol
Artificial colors Blue 2 yellow 5 etc...


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## Whiskey's Momma

*Country Vet Pet Food-What do you think?*

I was curious what a friend feeds and she said "country vet" I found their site. The food does not look good. I wonder what exactly is canola meal? The site for the dog food is Country Vet Pet Food if anyone is interested in rating it since it is not food on the dog food analysis site. Not sure what formula she feeds. Looks like they have by-products, corn and fillers. I am no expert but it looks bad.

I have invited her to come check out this site and read some posts....she seemed interested.....hopefully she will join.:tongue:


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## malluver1005

But, don't all dry dog foods contain carbohydrates? Why are they harmful?

And, does anyone know what CHICKEN MEAL is as opposed to just CHICKEN, as the first ingredient on a bag of food? What's the difference between the two, or are they the same thing? Any help is appreciated!!!


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## RawFedDogs

steve said:


> By-products because of the toxins stored there


There is really no problem with by-products fed in porportion with real meats. Its part of the natural diet for dogs/wolves. That being said, by-products in dog foods are often way out of porportion with other ingredients.



> Bad Fats, Animal fat General, not specefic


There are no bad animal fat. Fat is a necessary ingredient in a dog/wolf's diet. Fat doesn't affect carnivores negatively like it does humans. Dogs utilize fat the same way we utilize carbs.


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## RawFedDogs

malluver1005 said:


> But, don't all dry dog foods contain carbohydrates?


Yes



> Why are they harmful?


Most dog allergies can be traced to carbs. Other than that, they aren't really harmful, just not beneficial. Dogs have no dietary need for carbs.


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## malluver1005

In the wild, wolves eat some form of carbs, right? Doesn't every form of animal meat have carbs?


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## RawFedDogs

malluver1005 said:


> In the wild, wolves eat some form of carbs, right?


Nope, not in any siginificant amount. They may eat a few berries or fruits when in season but that about it. They don't eat them for nutriion. They eat them for the sweet taste in the same manner we eat cake and ice cream.



> Doesn't every form of animal meat have carbs?


Nope ... carbs are in plant matter


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## malluver1005

My dog's food has 26% carbohydrates. This won't make him gain weight will it?


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## RawFedDogs

Actually it's closer to 40% carbs in the food you feed and yes, they are pretty much empty calories. But after saying that, you won't get a lot better in kibble. Most kibbles are around 50% carbs and some even higher. In general, the lower the protein and fat, the higher the carbs.


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## rannmiller

malluver1005 said:


> But, don't all dry dog foods contain carbohydrates? Why are they harmful?


Yes, that's why all dry dog foods are not an appropriate diet for a carnivore (aka: your dog). They're harmful because:

1. Their digestive tract isn't made to digest it, so it sits in the gut longer because it takes longer to digest. 

2. It forces the pancreas (which secretes the digestive enzymes) to rob other organs of their enzymes so it can actually manage to digest the carbs, which in turn, weakens the immune system and those other organs. 

3. Carbs in their whole form contain gluten which is hard on the kidneys, which eventually causes renal failure. 

4. Carbs are often the source of many allergy and other health problems in carnivores. 

5. Carbs harbor more bacteria which sit in the stomach longer and cause all sorts of digestive and immunosuppressive problems. 

To name a few. 



malluver1005 said:


> And, does anyone know what CHICKEN MEAL is as opposed to just CHICKEN, as the first ingredient on a bag of food? What's the difference between the two, or are they the same thing? Any help is appreciated!!!


Ah yes, that's always a question that sparks fun debate. First off, all dog food companies list their ingredients in order of weight, before they cook it down. So what you are reading is the raw ingredients list. 

Chicken meal is the "edible parts of the chicken with the water and fat removed, cooked down/rendered before added to the kibble." So in my understanding of this, they render the chicken carcass (and who knows how much meat is really on it when they do this) down to a powder, then add it to the food. This means that there is no shrinkage when the kibble is cooked, so chicken protein is, indeed, the first and main ingredient in the dog food if it is labeled as such. 

Chicken is the whole chicken without the water and fat removed before it is added to the kibble for the extrusion process. Since chicken (and all other raw meat for that matter) is about 70% water/moisture (just like humans, go figure), this means the meat shrinks considerably during the cooking of the kibble. So when you see "chicken" as the first ingredient, you can pretty much infer that after the cooking process, it's actually about 5 or so ingredients down on the list. So count down 5 ingredients, and that's where your "whole chicken" content is. 

Of course, after the chicken is extruded so much, the enzymes have been completely destroyed so your dog doesn't get too much out of it anyway. 

Hope that clears it up for you!


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## malluver1005

Thanks you guys. Now I'm thinking of giving him just fish and veggies instead of kibble. Or maybe just kibble in the morning, and fish and veggies in the evening?
I boil the fish in water, but don't add any spices whatsoever. I'm still a bit uncomfortable with the idea of RAW feeding.


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## RawFedDogs

malluver1005 said:


> Thanks you guys. Now I'm thinking of giving him just fish and veggies instead of kibble. Or maybe just kibble in the morning, and fish and veggies in the evening?


With all those posts about the perils of carbs you are still going to supplement her diet with more carbs?



> I boil the fish in water, but don't add any spices whatsoever. I'm still a bit uncomfortable with the idea of RAW feeding.


What is it about raw that is giving you problems? Bacteria? They are not a problem. Dogs are designed to eat bacteria. Their bodies handle it very well. :smile:


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## rannmiller

I think most people don't realize that veggies and fruits are carbs too, that's why they still add them to a dog's diet. Still anthropomorphizing since we've grown up all our lives hearing that we need to eat our fruits and veggies every day, we get dogs, they become a part of our family, we just assume they need to eat like we do. And that's where all the problems start. 

However, doing one meal of kibble and one meal of boiled fish (no veggies, please) is still better than doing only kibble IMO. You could also do chicken, beef, any meat really. 

However, RFD's right, dogs' bodies are made and designed to eat raw meat, we've just been programed over the years to think that raw meat will kill us as soon as look at us so why on earth would we even think of feeding it t our beloved pets? Again, this is anthropomorphizing. Dogs are carnivores and made to eat raw meat, bones, and organs. Dogs have short, super acidic digestive tracts, which keeps the bacteria in it for a shorter amount of time and burns the bacteria up anyway. Because of the minimal amount of stuff they eat (meat, bones, organs), it is a lot easier to feed carnivores a "balanced" diet. 

Humans are omnivores and made to digest all manner of things and have longer digestive tracts and flat molars to do so. However, with our longer digestive tracts means longer digestion time which means a longer amount of time for the bacteria to manifest in us (though I've heard of people who eat raw meat with no problems at all and I eat raw eggs in my baked goods batter and have yet to get salmonella). It is much more complicated to feed an omnivore a completely "balanced" diet for this reason. They need protein, carbs, veggies, fruits, and fats in decent proportions. Dogs only need mostly meat, some bones, and some organs to stay healthy. How simple is that? :smile:


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## malluver1005

So, what's a great RAW diet recipe without veggies? I'm still thinking of doing kibble in the morning though.


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## malluver1005

Oh Geez, sorry RFD I didn't see your website. I'll take a look at it.


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## malluver1005

That site was really helpful. You discussed that dog's bodies are designed to handle bacteria very well, but do they ever get e-coli or salmonella? If they do, what is the outcome?


I think I'm gonna try it. Are the bones necessary though? I have a friend who is a vet-tech and he says that he's had a lot of dogs come in to the clinic with chicken bone problems. Trapped in their esophagus and things like that. And not digesting properly.


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## rannmiller

I started out the same way. I was convinced I knew more than the people who had been doing it for years so I did kibble in the morning and raw at night. I also added in some dumb veggie glop that I was convinced was good for my dogs. But when I saw none of the miraculous changes I thought I would from raw, I switched back to kibble for a while. Well believe it or not, I couldn't tell a difference when they were on part raw but I could tell a definite difference when they were on no raw at all! So I switched to just raw with veggie glop, still not the improvement I wanted to see, so I finally succumbed to what RFD had suggested all along and cut out the veggies. Almost instantaneously, I saw the results and benefits of a raw diet pay off. Smaller, rock hard, biodegradable stools (I never have to clean up my backyard now), nice shiny coats, less shedding, super white teeth, and increased energy and happiness. 

My mom was always a kibble feeder and eventually graduated up to better and better kibble options until one day she ran out and had no means of getting the kibble she normally fed (she lives in a very rural town), so she asked me what she could feed them in the mean time. I told her to get a bag of chicken leg quarters til i could make the trip from "the big city" to bring her the dog food in 5 days. I told her this would be easier than switching them cold turkey to a lower quality food and would be cheaper anyway. So she did and called me two days later to tell me not to bother getting her anymore dog food, her dogs were so thrilled with the raw meat she was just gonna stick with it and then asked me for advice on how to make the switch properly and how to feed them. 

What I'm trying to say is, we all have to feed our dogs in a manner we're comfortable with and come to whatever works best for us and them on our own terms. Just know that we've been doing this for a while and we do know what we're talking about :smile:


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## rannmiller

malluver1005 said:


> That site was really helpful. You discussed that dog's bodies are designed to handle bacteria very well, but do they ever get e-coli or salmonella? If they do, what is the outcome?


Dogs just don't really have a problem with those bacteria. As I previously stated, their digestive tracts are shorter so the bacteria is in their for less time so it has less time to manifest itself. Their stomachs are about 10 times more acidic than ours so it burns up and kills the bacteria anyway. Under the extremely rare case that a dog was to actually have a problem with bacteria, I can imagine it would be similar to that of a person where they have digestive issues and need to be put on antibiotics. But like I said, this really isn't an issue with carnivores since their bodies are designed to ingest it. 



malluver1005 said:


> I think I'm gonna try it. Are the bones necessary though? I have a friend who is a vet-tech and he says that he's had a lot of dogs come in to the clinic with chicken bone problems. Trapped in their esophagus and things like that. And not digesting properly.


That's awesome you're gonna try it! Bones are necessary, they are calcium and a stool-firmer. Generally when dogs end up with problems with bones, it's because the bones were either cooked, so they splintered and were unable to digest them (not a problem for you, since you'll be feeding them raw where they are soft and easily digested), if they feed a weight-bearing bone from a large animal which is too thick and hard to digest, or if they eat a bone and it comes up on an x-ray while it's digesting so the owner and vet freak out and perform emergency surgery to remove it when they probably could've just let it sit for the rest of the day and it would have been digested properly anyway. So don't feed cooked bones or weight-bearing bones from large animals and you should be fine. 

Start out with chicken bones because they're hollow so they're VERY easy for dogs to crunch through and swallow. This really helps first-time feeders be put at ease that their dog, is in fact, capable of eating bones. I was nervous my first time too but once I saw how easily my dogs took to it, I was able to sit back and enjoy the show :biggrin:


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## Pugetpups

Why do vets know so little about nutrition? I guess you could ask that same question about MDs and human nutrition. Science Diet is crap, as are most (if not all) of those mass marketed foods. Unfortunately, some of those pet food companies have similar relationships to vets as doctors do to pharmaceutical companies. Vets don't have a motivation to do their own research, especially when they receive freebies and incentives from companies like Hills. I read somewhere that an MD has an average of about 8 hours of nutrition education in their 8-10 years of study (I hope that is changing). I'm sure it is less for a vet.

I treat dog food the same way I do human food. If I don't recognize the name of an ingredient as a real food item, I don't feed it/eat it. Even then, there are certain foods dogs should not eat, as they can be toxic. Here are the biggies: grapes/raisins, avocados, chocolate, onions. They have varying toxicity levels, but are best avoided altogether.


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## wags

I would have to say
By Products ~ Soy~ Corn~Wheat~ BHA~Ethoxyquin~BHT

When you don't have a valuable protein source, then the food your feeding has no good nutrients in it so its not worth feeding the pup! Certain grains just cause allergies and dogs do not digest them well, so stick away from them! The preservatives in certain dog foods can be harmful to your pup and they just are plain old not good for them at all!

Learning to read the ingredient list is the best thing you can do for your dog! Takes a bit to figure it all out and well what you don't remember just carry a note with you to help you to remember what the heck is good and what the heck isn't!


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## Todd

Pugetpups said:


> Why do vets know so little about nutrition? I guess you could ask that same question about MDs and human nutrition. Science Diet is crap, as are most (if not all) of those mass marketed foods. Unfortunately, some of those pet food companies have similar relationships to vets as doctors do to pharmaceutical companies. Vets don't have a motivation to do their own research, especially when they receive freebies and incentives from companies like Hills. I read somewhere that an MD has an average of about 8 hours of nutrition education in their 8-10 years of study (I hope that is changing). I'm sure it is less for a vet.
> 
> I treat dog food the same way I do human food. If I don't recognize the name of an ingredient as a real food item, I don't feed it/eat it. Even then, there are certain foods dogs should not eat, as they can be toxic. Here are the biggies: grapes/raisins, avocados, chocolate, onions. They have varying toxicity levels, but are best avoided altogether.


From what I understand, vets are only taught about 1 week of nutrition during vet school, and that session is taught by a science diet, hills, iams, etc representative who is a major sponsor for most vet schools. It really is a shame:frown:

It's too bad higher quality kibble companies like EVO or Origin don't sponsor these schools, but some dog food companies don't spend ALL their money on advertising!!:frown:

Also, I think we ought to pass an amendment here on the forum. No longer shall we give crappy dog food companies the satisfaction of capitalizing their names! Who's with me???!!!


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## RawFedDogs

Todd said:


> Also, I think we ought to pass an amendment here on the forum. No longer shall we give crappy dog food companies the satisfaction of capitalizing their names! Who's with me???!!!


How old are you, Todd?


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## GermanSheperdlover

Here is my list of foods only

1. Corn
2. Wheat
3. Pork "FAT"
4. Glutens
5. Soy
6. Lard
7. Sugar
8. Hulls, of any type
9. Beet pulp
10. Menhaden Fish 
11. Beef "FAT"
12. Beef Meat & Bone Meal
13. Menhaden Fish Oil
14. Chicken Flavor-artificial flavors of anykind
15. Tomato Pomace 

Boy 15 and it was rather easy. I know a dog needs fat but just not beef and pork. Lard, ugh..


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## Todd

RawFedDogs said:


> How old are you, Todd?


8 year old:biggrin:

No just kidding. When i said we shouldn't capitalize hills or scirnce diet or whatever, i was just kiddin around. i wasnt serious.:biggrin:

cant you guys take a joke!! jk:biggrin:


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## Dior

Vets get only one course or even only a few hours of lectures on pet nutrition in school. And guess who comes in to to the lectures? Reps from Purina, Science Diet, or other commercial foods. I have customers who told me their vet said to feed their dog ALPO! Can you imagine! My former vet recommends Eukanuba and Purina One! Appalling!

A healthy dog or cat on a good diet has way less trips to the vet. The higher cost of a good food, is still way less than bringing your pet to the vet time after time for skin and coat problems and a slew of other maladies that the cheapo foods cause. Not to mention the cortisone shots and other things that are given to your poor pet.


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## Dior

Here's an interesting story about vets recommending pet food, if you have any interest. The link is:

> 
http://www.truthaboutpetfood.com/ar...terinarians-to-Recommend-Pet-Foods/Page1.html


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## Todd

Yea, I take Lucky to the dog park every night, and there's a vet who feeds her dog hills. Go figure. 

I mean, I can understand vet's lack of nutritional training, but haven't they ever heard about the dangers of most commercial pet foods on the internet or something? You'd think after 8 years of schooling they'd at least discover something about this.


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## Dior

Makes you wonder whether the vet wants to keep seeing your pet for a problem that better nutrition would clear up.


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## DaneMama

Todd said:


> Yea, I take Lucky to the dog park every night, and there's a vet who feeds her dog hills. Go figure.
> 
> I mean, I can understand vet's lack of nutritional training, but haven't they ever heard about the dangers of most commercial pet foods on the internet or something? You'd think after 8 years of schooling they'd at least discover something about this.


I think it comes down more to just plain old common sense. Why don't more people use common sense?! 

No one needs a degree in nutrition to agree that fresh, whole foods are better than processed ones. That right there should be the biggest red flags that people should see when deciding what to feed their dogs.

And the problem with vets and raw, is that the few horror stories with animals that eat a raw diet get blown WAY out of proportion. But then they don't take into account all of the animals that have gotten sick or died from eating kibble (recalls and things), and thus turn a blind eye to what the real problem is.



Dior said:


> Makes you wonder whether the vet wants to keep seeing your pet for a problem that better nutrition would clear up.


This is a scary idea. I hope that there are no vets out there that actually do this. But then again, ignorance and misinformation is something to consider as well...


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## Todd

Here are the ingredients I think are the worst;

1. BHA
2. BHT
3. Ethoxyquin 
4. Peanut Hulls
5. Animal Digest 
6. Grape Pomace 
7. Propyl Gallate
8. Corn Gluten 
9. Cane Molasses
10. Corn Syrup
11. Frutose
12. Sorbitol 
13. Sugar
14. Salt
15. Rice Hulls
16. Soybean Mill Run 
17. Cellulose 
18. Lard
19. Artificial Colors
20. Maltodextrins & Fermentation Solubles/ Grain Fermentation Solubles 

*Also, if anyone's interested below is a site where you can read about these harmful ingredients;

The Dog Food Project - Ingredients to avoid


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## Unosmom

I'm pretty much convinced that theres a conspiracy going on with vets and giant pet food corps. I'm sure they know that their food is garbage, but its very convinient for them to be selling it and funding vet classes/offering perks to students. Because they know that ultimately every pet owner trusts their family vet. 
So food corps. sell garbage to the vet, they make profit, animals get sick over it, the vet makes profit. It all makes sense.


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## GermanSheperdlover

*Hey Todd
That was a good site, sure wish MORE people would go there. Most of that crap I already new about but it is always good to get refreshed. I put that one into my favorites.*


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