# George has a leak



## CoverTune (Dec 20, 2011)

He's had mild occasional urinary incontinence for at least a year now. Tried a few things, including Propalin, but none seemed to actually stop the issue and after doing some reading on Propalin, I don't want him on that.

It seemed that a full bladder before bed was usually the cause, so I've just been making sure he goes out right before bed and haven't had an issue in quite a while.

Well last night he had some major leaking... on his bed, on the couch, and two puddles on my bed when I woke up this morning. None were small spots, these were full on puddles. And this afternoon when I picked him up, more urine.

I think he's drinking more than usual too, but only in the past few days. Since switching to raw I could go a few days before having the fill the water bowl from it being empty, but it's definitely been more frequent than that...

He's also had a rather greasy coat the past month.

I'm not back at work until Monday, but will definitely talk to the Dr about it then, and maybe do some bloodwork and urinalysis. His last bloodwork was just done at the end of September and it was 100% perfect.

I'm not sure what I'll do if he's got something serious.. financially I just don't think I can take it..


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## Chocx2 (Nov 16, 2009)

Have you tried some of the holistic stuff? My neighbor has a dog that has always leaked, she puts one of those little diapers on him and that solved her problem. The vet told her some dogs just have a leaking problem?


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## twoisplenty (Nov 12, 2008)

We had great success with Sudofed. Its the medical ingredient pseudoephedrine that helps with incontinence. The dosage for Raven (65lbs) was 30 mg twice a day. The cost was less than $10 a month and it worked great for her. We also tried the Propalin and it didn't work at all for her.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

I know the feeling. I think one more major health problem with my dogs my send me over the edge, emotionally and financially. it could be something you could treat holistically. Unfortunately, it is probably better to pay for the blood/urine tests. I know excessive urination can be a sign of something more serious, but also minor issues.

I think I have that problem with Parker. Every now and then we find a large puddle of water/pee I guess on the floor. I don't know if he's a little incontinent or if he's just stressed. It happened last night after we got him home from his surgery. I know he doesn't have major health problems in that regard. So maybe it's the same with George.


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## BeagleCountry (Jan 20, 2012)

Connor is a paraplegic with limited bladder control. Vetri-Science Bladder Strength helps by tightening the sphincter muscle. He still leaks when the bladder is full or if he is excited. I tried HomeoPet's Leaks No More. Leaks No More must be given several times per day, not with meals. It was inconvenient to use and there was little to no improvement. A leaking bladder can also be caused by the bladder stretching making it difficult for the dog to hold the urine. Removing the water bowl a couple of hours before bedtime and taking the dog out every 2 -3 hours may help. Exercise may strengthen the surrounding muscles providing support for the bladder. 

Bladder Strength Ingredients:
Pumpkin Seed Powder . . . . . . . . . . . .150 mg
Rehmannia glutinosa (root) Powder . . . . .150 mg
Wild Yam Extract . . . . . . . . . . . . . 150 mg
Soy Protein Extract . . . . . . . . . . . .100 mg
Corn Silk Powder . . . . . . . . . . . . . .60 mg
Saw Palmetto Extract . . . . . . . . . . . .60 mg
Olive Leaf (15% Oleuropein) Extract . . . . 50 mg
Pyridoxine HCI (Vitamin B6) . . . . . . . . 25 mg


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## CoverTune (Dec 20, 2011)

I used the belly band on him last night and he wet right through it.

Sudafed sounds a little scary, after doing some reading, and his dosage would only be 1.2mg, which would be nearly impossible to give.

I'll definitely keep the bladder strength in mind.. but at this point I'm thinking it's more than just incontinence. 

So we'll ride out the weekend and start with some tests on Monday, and hopefully have some answers by Tuesday.


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## Kbug (Oct 23, 2011)

Excessive drinking and peeing could be a sign of diabetes. These two are often quoted as the two big tip offs that something is wrong from diabetic dog owners. If you were of a mind to, you could purchase some ketodiastixs from a local pharmacy. Just dip the end in some urine and it'll tell you if there is any glucose or ketones in the urine. Just make sure they test for both glucose and ketones since some only test for ketones.

Kbug


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## twoisplenty (Nov 12, 2008)

CoverTune said:


> I used the belly band on him last night and he wet right through it.
> 
> Sudafed sounds a little scary, after doing some reading, and his dosage would only be 1.2mg, which would be nearly impossible to give.
> 
> ...


Your dog only weighs 2.5lbs? Your right, dosing a dog that small would be impossible! You can get Ephedrine through your vet as well in much smaller more accurate dosages, they will also try using Estrogen to treat incontinence. It didnt work on our girl. I am glad to say we have not been on any meds in well over a year. I also believe we are having less issues due to being on a Raw diet. She isnt stretching her bladder by excessive drinking any more because she gets most of her water intake through her food. I wish you all the best in finding out why your little one is having incontinence issues and I hope it isnt anything to seriously worry about.


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## CoverTune (Dec 20, 2011)

No, the dosage for sudafed is 0.2-0.4mg/kg and George is 6kg. We tried to estrogen treatment already and it had no effect.


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## twoisplenty (Nov 12, 2008)

I just looked at our vet files and my girl got 30mg and she is 62lbs. Took about 7 days and was the only thing that seemed to work.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

i had great success with belly bands and a fat pad in the middle to catch anything and everything....

i would also get a hemopet thyroid test, a urinalysis and a blood work up for georgie....


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## CoverTune (Dec 20, 2011)

So, we pulled samples from George first thing this morning, and his urine definitely looked "off".. Dr suspects that he just has a UTI. I've never been so excited to see cloudy pee!!

Doing a full blood panel, urinalysis & urine culture, but I'm not fearing the worst any more.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Oh good. Glad to hear it. My husband always tells me I expect the worst. I tell him I am then pleasantly surprised if it doesn't happen.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

xellil said:


> Oh good. Glad to hear it. My husband always tells me I expect the worst. I tell him I am then pleasantly surprised if it doesn't happen.


i would rather think the worst and get better news...than expect everything to be fine and have it turn out to be something that kills my dog.


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## CoverTune (Dec 20, 2011)

George's lab results came back. No indication of UTI, but lots of epithelial cells in the urine. Also a couple of blood results that indicate possible internal bleeding.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

bleeding? internal bleeding?

OH MY....from what?

did you get xrays?


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

magicre said:


> bleeding? internal bleeding?
> 
> OH MY....from what?
> 
> did you get xrays?


What she said.

There has to be something going on in there.


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## CoverTune (Dec 20, 2011)

The Dr just did an additional test on George's urine. He didn't see any sign of infection, but did find some protein in it, which suggests a possible kidney issue.. except that the urine concentration is good, which means the kidneys are working well.. talk about contradictory information.

His weight is down a touch as well (usually 5.9-6kg, today is 5.7kg), so gotta keep an eye on that.

Tomorrow, we'll check his blood pressure, and next week we'll do repeat bloodwork to see if those levels are any better (low hematocrit, low hemoglobin & elevated BUN)

I hate that we have to just "wait and see", I wish there was something I could be doing.

On the plus side, if there is something going on, you'd never know it to look at him.. he's still his usual George self.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

george had a rough transition to raw.....is he eating red meat now?

i wonder if his labs are reflecting the rough transition, because they are so contradictory.....


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## CoverTune (Dec 20, 2011)

I'm definitely worried that it's diet related.

He is getting red meat, mostly pork, but we did do a week of beef without trouble. I've also just started adding in organ (chicken liver) as of this past weekend.. only a tiny piece every-other day, but no problems.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

CoverTune said:


> I'm definitely worried that it's diet related.
> 
> He is getting red meat, mostly pork, but we did do a week of beef without trouble. I've also just started adding in organ (chicken liver) as of this past weekend.. only a tiny piece every-other day, but no problems.


i don't mean diet related in the sense that there is cause for worry...i mean that raw fed dogs can have 'off' lab results.

was he fasted when he had the blood work?

i had blood work recently and i'd had rack of lamb the night before...my RBC were high, so was my hematocrit and hemoglobin. which is not usual.

so the next week, i did a fasting, and everything came back normal....

dogs can do that, too.

epithelials in the urine usually mean UTI.....and can cause that peeing....use a pad in the belly band..that should catch it.

did the blood work indicate diabetes? were his blood sugars normal?

not so sure it's the diet as much as i think he either has something going on, which i hope not....even something minor can look serious....

or

he needs less red meat which is contrary to most opinions and more chicken and maybe fish...

can you post the results of his blood work? and the UA?

would you draw blood again if this isn't a fasting draw?


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

Are you sure the pork ii not enhanced. Much of what I see is which is why I buy the pork neck and hearts only. Also like Re said some dogs do better on lighter meats or at least a mojority of lighter meats. My sheltie will not eat pork or beef except for liver. Her main food is chicken, turkey, sardines and occassiinally rabbit od goat. She is doing great.


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## CoverTune (Dec 20, 2011)

Ok let's see... no, he wasn't fasted prior to the blood work. He would have eaten around 6:30am, and the blood was drawn around 9:30 I think.

The rest of the blood results were normal, and no glucose found in the urine, though it did have some protein. I'll post the full results later today.

I don't think the meat is enhanced, I honestly don't recall ever seeing enhanced meat of any kind.


We checked his blood pressure today, and it's high (170), even accounting for stress, and he didn't seem very stressed. So I have to try and get another urine sample that we'll send to the lab to check specifically for protein.

We are going to do another blood test on Monday.. do you think I should fast him?


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

yes. i think he should be fasted at least 12 hours..if not more.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

CoverTune said:


> Ok let's see... no, he wasn't fasted prior to the blood work. He would have eaten around 6:30am, and the blood was drawn around 9:30 I think.
> 
> The rest of the blood results were normal, and no glucose found in the urine, though it did have some protein. I'll post the full results later today.
> 
> ...


when my honey had blood pressure so high they couldn't pull his tooth....we realised there had to be salt somewhere...check the pork....i have only found one brand that is not enhanced...something prairie...

even swift has something, i don't know what.

protein in urine can point to kidney issues, especially if he's peeing. i swear he's got a bladder infection....but i'm not a vet, so i won't say it out loud. 

is his BP usually high? especially when he goes to the vet...?

can you take a pressure at home?


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## CoverTune (Dec 20, 2011)

It's definitely not a bladder infection, there weren't any crystals, blood cells, nothing.

There's no brand on any of the meat I buy, it's all packaged in-store. I'll try to give them a call and ask about it.

He's only ever had his BP taken one other time, while he was under for surgery, and the highest it got then was 102. He comes to the clinic with me every day, so doesn't really have any reason to be especially stressed here.

Full blood and urine results here;


George Bloodwork 3/19/2012


George Urinalysis 3/19/2012


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

i saw his UA and blood work...

i'm simply not qualified to go further than the questions i've asked...

he's nine. he's not old.....but he is senior....and not a bladder infection, but a UTI, is what i meant. 

the only thing that struck me was blood pressure being high and cloudy urine....and that's it....

even the squamous cell epithelials was explained with contamination of the catheter, possibly.

have you talked to the vet today?


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

I was getting chicken and pork at a Mexican grocery that they packaged themselves and it turns out it had a 10 percent salt water solution in it. Doesn't hurt to check.


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## CoverTune (Dec 20, 2011)

Spoke with the grocery store where I've been getting all my meat, and they say nothing that they package in store is enhanced in any way.

I guess we're going to wait until Monday now and do the blood and urine at the same time, taking the urine via catheter.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

CoverTune said:


> Spoke with the grocery store where I've been getting all my meat, and they say nothing that they package in store is enhanced in any way.
> 
> I guess we're going to wait until Monday now and do the blood and urine at the same time, taking the urine via catheter.


unbelievable. maybe we should fix george up with snorkels.

now we have to go the weekend....oy. i feel for both of you.

did you get extra thick pads? for like really really heavy menstruation? that's what i used to put into the belly bands when bubba was peeing in his sleep...


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## CoverTune (Dec 20, 2011)

Should have results from yesterday's blood and urine samples today. He was fasted for about 20hrs beforehand.


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## CoverTune (Dec 20, 2011)

So, I'm starting to think my vet was just being a jackass, trying to make things sound worse than they really are. He now says that everything looks reasonably good, and we'll want to keep an eye on the Hematocrit, but there's really nothing to worry about. We're just going to try some cranberry extract tablets to see if that helps the urine leaking issue.

So, here's the results from yesterday's blood/urine draw, after fasting for approx 20hrs. His ALT has changed quite a bit, but apparently that's nothing to be worried about.


George Bloodwork March 26/12


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

i'd still get some grape seed extract....

and tell your vet to stop making me crazy.


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