# Poop is even softer and more mucousy



## Kat (Jul 12, 2011)

I posted a week or so ago about Ruby having mucous and soft poop. Went bone heavy for a few days and it went away and then started boneless again. Today her poop was really mucousy and soft, and it was big again. I dont know if maybe she has some sort of imbalance in her digestive tract or something. I did not give revolution this month, the last time she got revolution was Oct.1. Im thinking of skipping the November dose altogether.

So my question is, what do I do about the poop? I was thinking of going to a health food store and buying some slippery elm and give her that for a few days to rebalance everything. Maybe even some probiotics? I cant give her too much bone, cause then she gets constipated, I usually do bone every 4-5 meals. I gave bone-in last night, so the poop she had today still had the look of bone-in poop, but with a lot of mucous and softness surrounding it. Its been about a week of mucous poop, and Im sure its not comfortable for her either. 

Any advice is appreciated! I dont want to take her to the vet, the only thing my vet will tell me to do is put her on flagyl and feed royal canin >.<


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

Bone every 4-5 meals seems like very very little bone to me. 

I would hold off on adding other things to the diet right now, it just adds more variables to the puzzle.

I'm not understanding how a good poop can have softness "surrounding" it? Uhh... pictures? LOL


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## Kat (Jul 12, 2011)

I didnt say good poop, but you can see the bone-in dinner she had, as in how the poop is kind of grainy from bone. but its coated with mucous and its very squishy when I pick it up. And its way bigger then normal, usually she has little poops. How often should I do bone-in meals? And it depends on what I have in the freezer at the time, sometimes she will get bone in every 3rd meal. But on average it has been about every 4th meal, and I sometimes stretch it to every 5th. Shoould I just wait to see if this passes?


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

Kat said:


> I didnt say good poop, but you can see the bone-in dinner she had, as in how the poop is kind of grainy from bone. but its coated with mucous and its very squishy when I pick it up. And its way bigger then normal, usually she has little poops. How often should I do bone-in meals? And it depends on what I have in the freezer at the time, sometimes she will get bone in every 3rd meal. But on average it has been about every 4th meal, and I sometimes stretch it to every 5th. Shoould I just wait to see if this passes?


I've never been able to see my dog's bone in meals in the poop, and I haven't observed bone making the stools grainy at all. Forgive me if you've already stated, but what all are you feeding, and how long has she been on raw? 

If she isn't acting sick and is in good spirits, I would not rush to the vet.


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## rory (Oct 4, 2011)

Hmmm, sounds like it very well could be giardia. There is a very nasty strain going around where I live right now, actually. You might want to bring in a sample if it doesn't clear up in a few days - dogs won't usually act ill - mine just had a routine sample done (we do one very six months) and it came back positive, even though there were no symptoms.


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## jdatwood (Apr 13, 2009)

Some dogs simply need bone every meal (or more often that most) to stay "regular"... I'd increase the frequency of bone-in meals and see how it looks from there


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## Kat (Jul 12, 2011)

She is new to raw, I started her on august 19th. So its been like 3 months. This has never been an issue before, so I doubt it has anything to do with too little bone. She still sometimes poops out shards of bone, her stomach acid isnt strong enough to break it all down yet. 

As of now she eats chicken, turkey, pork, cornish hen, canned salmon and sardines. Still introing beef very slowly, its she cant eat too much at once because its so rich.

The problem with giardia is that it is hard to spot in a fecal. 

She's acting just fine, eating, drinking, playing like her normal self. 

And yeah Puppypaws, I would prefer to not bring her to the vet, I dont like doing medications with any of my pets unless absolutely neccessary, and my vet usually always prescribes flagyl if there is mucous in the poop. And I would prefer not to do any pills, because I would have to put them in a pill pocket otherwise she wouldnt take pills.


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## rory (Oct 4, 2011)

You're right, giardia doesn't always show up. If it really doesn't get better and you don't want to get a fecal, you can always ask for a round of panacur. I wouldn't do flagyl or any other antibiotic unnecessarily, but dewormers don't bother me - probably because I used to live in a country where I had to deworm myself on a regular basis!


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## Kat (Jul 12, 2011)

She was dewormed in June as a ''just in case'' by my vet. And she also does revolution from June-November so it cant be worms I dont think. As a pug, in the summer months she is also mainly an indoor dog. I live by the lake so it can get super humid so I dont like to take her out too much when the weather is like that, mainly just to go to the washroom. I mean, if it doesnt clear up I will bring in a fecal to my vet. But one thing is they wont give me anything until they "see the animal for a physical exam". Another way to get even more money -.-' I havent been to the vet since June, and I want to keep it that way  lol


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

So you don't think it's lack of bone? Could you try something with softer bones like chicken necks?

I know all dogs are different, but that does seem like not very much bone.

And Snorkels has the constipation problem - what i do with her is give her not very much bone, but I supplement with eggshells.


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## Kat (Jul 12, 2011)

Well, like I said, I have been doing that with bone for a long time and she was always fine with it, her poops have always been normal. I could up the bone to every 3rd meal and see if it helps. But since I have always done it this way, its weird that all of a sudden its not enough. And usually if i did really stretch out the bone-in meals far apart, her poop would slowly start to get soft, while this is really soft and covered in mucous. She has not had mucous poop from lack of bone before. 

I am new to raw so obviously I dont know everything, so I am open to suggestions.

Also, for bone-in meals, it usually consists of chicken wings, necks, backs, drumsticks, or turkey necks and wings, and on occasion, pork ribs.


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## tem_sat (Jun 20, 2010)

I apologize in advance for what I am about to say, but it worked!

I dog-sat a Chi/Jack Russell mix (Louie) earlier last month for a weekend. Louie's owner brought his food, Blue Buffalo, with instructions on how much to feed. I fed Louie, but he did not want to eat. I then tried adding about a teaspoon of scrambled raw egg on top of his food. He then decided he would eat.

About an hour goes by and Louie throws up all his food. My Doxie decided to eat the thrown up food before I could catch him and stop him. Consequently, my Doxie was sick for a week with a combo of vomiting every 2 days and daily loose stools with mucous, much like you describe. During this period of time, I fed nothing but bone-in chicken. Still, wouldn't fix the issue. 

I decided to break down and call my vet. He knows my Doxie is on PMR and I explained the situation to him. His advice was to feed plain white rice for a few days. I did as instructed and fed white rice, and nothing else, for 3 days. It totally worked and my Doxie is back on his normal diet.

I am not sure if that would help you, but I would try it before going to the vet.


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## hmbutler (Aug 4, 2011)

Just chucking this in here, for an example for you to work with - Duke has been on raw about 2 weeks longer than your girl, and he needs quite a bit of bone in his meals. I would say every second meal needs to be bone in. On Friday I fed him a turkey neck for dinner (can't remember what breakfast was, I think boneless pork), Saturday he had lamb offcuts in the morning (little to no bone in it) and pork heart for dinner, and Saturday night/Sunday morning he had close to liquid poop. So Sunday morning was a chicken back, Sunday night was turkey leg, and this morning was another chicken back. His poop this morning started off a bit more firm, but was still runny by the end of it. Dinner tonight will probably be a turkey neck, and that will hopefully see him back to normal. 

If your pups poop is still really quite soft, try bone-in meals only for a few meals in a row, and see if that is a quick fix, before going back to bone-in every 2 or 3 meals. Hopefully that will help :smile: I've learned Duke needs bone in meals every day (not necessarily bone "heavy", but some bone in there), so you don't need to worry about giving too much bone. I'm pretty sure I'll never have Duke on the 80/10/10 ratio, because 10% bone isn't going to be enough (at least not in the foreseeable future).


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## Kat (Jul 12, 2011)

All these replies have been so helpful. I guess what I can do is bone-in every other meal. Or boneless with one chicken wing for every meal, so she gets a bit of bone with every meal and slowly increase to 2-3 meals without bone. Ill try that first, and if in a week that doesnt help with poop I will try something Liz suggested.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

is it possible she is eating a wee too much?

maybe cut her back from four to three ounces per meal.....

my dogs were very mucousy the first six months...

honestly, until the first year is over, you can expect the unexpected...


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## Kat (Jul 12, 2011)

I dont know if you remember, but I did start raw off with 2.5 oz per meal, and she got crazy hunger pukes every morning. So I upped it to 3 oz, still the same thing. Went to 3.5oz and they stopped but she was losing weight quickly. The 4 oz. meals keeps her weight steady and no hunger pukes. Iv been feeding 4 oz. meals for like two months now without problem. I still have some 3.5 oz meals in the freezer which I do feed her every once in a while. But she needs more than the 2% mark, because she did lose just over 2.5 pounds in not even a month. Now she weighs 16 pounds and it only fluctuates by a few ounces per week. I have a baby scale so I weigh her often.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

Kat said:


> I dont know if you remember, but I did start raw off with 2.5 oz per meal, and she got crazy hunger pukes every morning. So I upped it to 3 oz, still the same thing. Went to 3.5oz and they stopped but she was losing weight quickly. The 4 oz. meals keeps her weight steady and no hunger pukes. Iv been feeding 4 oz. meals for like two months now without problem. I still have some 3.5 oz meals in the freezer which I do feed her every once in a while. But she needs more than the 2% mark, because she did lose just over 2.5 pounds in not even a month. Now she weighs 16 pounds and it only fluctuates by a few ounces per week. I have a baby scale so I weigh her often.


i remember now. 

what if you were to feed her four ounces at one meal and 3 ounces at another....she is further in now....

i just know the first six months were filled with intros and one day solid poo and the next day mucous poo and after that, it was anyone's guess...

they needed more bone in the beginning....

bubba was eating almost 5 ounces per meal...now he eats 3 because over a period of a year he gained weight. he also gained muscle, but he's a little linebacker now..

malia was getting and needed 6 ounces per meal and now gets about 4-4 1/2....

things change is what i am saying, i guess...

i think...if i were in your shoes....think back to when this started and think about what you were feeding...

i'd start over....i usually do when things aren't the way i think they should be....i'm not saying start over for the time it took, but i have put my dogs back on chicken....for a week or so....and then moved on from there.

we play with amounts to feed for a month, too.....to see what causes hunger pukes, what doesn't...and my kids had them in the beginning months.....they don't have them now.

it's all trial and error...and if you've done three fecals and still have negatives.....then it has to be diet....

but since she's only been raw for three months? is that right? then i have to think it's diet, most likely....

you have so many things to choose from:
too much food
not enough food
too much fat
not enough fat
a protein that doesn't agree with her system
a protein she needs more of

there are many variables....


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## Kat (Jul 12, 2011)

Yeah that is true. Since everything is still pretty much the same feeding wise since I first started raw, its hard to pin point what is making her have these poop problems. Atleast I know there are many options I can take now. I will try the slight increase of bone, and one decreased meal a day and go from there. If it doesnt improve I will bring in a fecal to my vet. Start with the stuff that doesnt cost me any money  lol


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

> Also, for bone-in meals, it usually consists of chicken wings, necks, backs, drumsticks, or turkey necks and wings, and on occasion, pork ribs.


what is she getting for boneless meals?

since you're giving bone in meals every four to five feedings, maybe try giving bone every third feeding and see what happens.....unless you've tried that and it constipates her.

i do know my dogs both needed more bone then than they do now....

how are her poops after a pork rib? can she eat the rib?

i only say that because bubba could not, in the beginning, eat the actual rib. he can now. but not then.


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## Kat (Jul 12, 2011)

For boneless meals she eats chicken, turkey, pork, and once a week canned salmon. 

Yes, she can eat the pork rib, it just takes her a lot longer. Her poops seem fine after pork ribs. However, I have not given her a pork rib in about 2 weeks. 

I will try the bone-in meal frequency and see if it improves her poops.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

so if she is eating four ounce meals, that's 8 oz per day x 7 = 56 ounces of protein.....from where is she getting her organs, which should account fo 10%, five per cent being liver, the other five dealer's choice....

so that would be 5.6 ounces put aside for organs on a weekly basis

she is eating fourteen meals, of which 3.5 of those meals are bony...is that right? so that's about 14 oz of bone per week.

my math sucks...but it means she's getting at least ten per cent in bone...which should be enough.

but it sounds like, if i'm right on my math, that your diet for her sounds good...although i think by now she's eating too much chicken and turkey and not enough red meat...

i know you said that beef was too rich. have you tried lamb or goat?


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## KittyKat (Feb 11, 2011)

Sometimes its hard to balance things. Piper has a very firm poop every morning, it crumbles pretty fast.... then a few hours later she has really runny poop and then a normal poop at night. She's fine otherwise.

I've tried the bone content tango and it can be rough. :3


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## Kat (Jul 12, 2011)

Since the mucous poop has started (its been about a week and a half now) i have not fed any beef. I do give her a lot of pork though, because i dont want her to be eating too much chicken and turkey. She gets more chicken then turkey because i cant find organic turkey at my grocery store, while the chicken, pork, and beef are organic from a local farm where they sell some of their product at my grocery store. When introing beef I am still only giving her half an ounce with her meals otherwise she throws up the beef. I actually do have a lamb leg in my freezer which I bought, I could start defrosting it. I also have a duck. 

No organs yet since shes not introd to beef. Since organs are even richer then beef I dont want to rush her. I do give her those Benny Bullys freeze dried liver treats a few times a week though.

Ya thats about right, 3-4 bone-in meals a week


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

after the first year, i kind of stopped using poop as my standard...but it did take me a year of thinking i could get the perfect poo.

considering that every dog is different and there is no such thing as the perfect poo every time...barring anything that would involve disease, maybe it's something to watch, but not do..

because your diet sounds good...and, whilst she is having trouble adapting to beef, i would give her dime sized pieces on the days she gets bone...because at some point, you're going to have to add organs....

what we do with organs is freeze them. each dog gets about 1/2 ounce in the a.m. either liver or kidney or thymus, spleen, or pancreas....and they scarf it down because we use them like treats.

give it to them thawed and it's as if we're trying to poison them.

but when we started, they were tiny sized pieces.....at first, we just left them on the chicken backs...those are kidneys...then we took tiny little pieces of chicken liver...and started there....month by month, we kept introducing beef liver and beef, each week or so increasing the amount, but always feeding it with a bone meal....

if they got loose stools, ah well. 

even now, when they eat venison or venison heart, i could feed them bone for a week and they'd still get loose stools. not talking cannon butt, but dark and squishy. 

gotta love these conversations we have 

and then the next day they straighten out unless i have more to feed them LOL


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## Kat (Jul 12, 2011)

Actually Ruby has eaten chicken kidney a few times with the chicken backs, which didnt bother her. I could always start with chicken organs and then eventually work my way towards beef organs. My grocery store sells beef tongue, kidney, liver, heart, and tripe. And for chicken they sell the liver, kidney, gizzards, and giblets. The chicken stuff is harder to come by though, seems like a lot of people buy the liver quickly. 

I dont want to jinx it but she just pooped an hour ago and it was mostly firm, no mucous  If her poops are normal tomorrow I will start adding small pieces of beef to her meals again. 

I have some scraps of meat that didnt reach the 4 oz meals, so I have like 1 oz chicken, 1 oz turkey, 1 oz pork... can I mix all those together and give half an ounce of beef eventually if her poops stay normal?


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

i don't see why not....although it would probably be best to stick to one protein and see if her poops normalise and then add in the other one and another one....

i mix proteins now, especially when i have a little of this and a little of that....i had two quail legs, imagine very small...and a little venison and a little pork, i think...and that's what they had for dinner last night....i'd have to check to see if i remember correctly.

even still i wouldn't have done this a year ago....it would have been chicken and whatever protein i was intro'ing....

but, only you can decide.....doncha hate that?


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## Kat (Jul 12, 2011)

Poop was a bit soft again today, no mucous though. Ruby still has that musky dog smell though, which has happened in the past when I first switched her, and when she accidently ate cat kibble so I take it as a sign of "detoxing" from a bad food. 

But this musky dog smell has been on Ruby for like a week now, its never lasted this long, its usually only 3-4 days. Should I give her a bath?


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

my dogs smelled like that for the first three or four months...and their stools were inconsistent and they still had nuclear farts...

it even got to the point where honey and i were asking ourselves.....are we doing this right? 

but it all worked out...they smell wonderful, their teeth are clean, they are lucious now....just keep on truckin'....


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## Kat (Jul 12, 2011)

Ya its so weird though cause she would smell like it only once in a while and just for a few days. But Ill just wait it out lol. Her poops are becoming normal again. Gave her half an ounce of beef with her breakfast and she didnt throw it up


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

she's got one of those slow systems......she'll get there


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