# Raw Feeding and Vaccinations



## Sampson653 (May 4, 2012)

I wanted to touch base with the group and seek out your thoughts. Over the past year I have gone back and fourth over some of the vaccinations listed that my dogs are supposed to get. We do a lot of camping and go to dog parks ect often. 

Who vaccinates? What do you vaccinate? 
I know rabies is a MUST in my town, but what about Bordatella? Lepto? 


Also what do you think about frontline and flea prevention? Another thing I just can't bring myself to give them this year. I have had it sitting on the table for weeks and keep making excuses why not to use it.

Open to any thoughts and suggestions. 
I have a 18 month old German Shepherd and 6 month old Shepherd/Doberman mix


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## SuperPug (Mar 5, 2013)

I only vaccinate for rabies every 3 years.

My biting bug protection is apple cider vinegar. I've used it for about a year now and haven't seen a single bugger on her. Even when she plays side by side with a flea infested dog.

We're also active people. Camping, hiking, lots of outdoors stuff.


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

No vaccines, no flea topicals, no heart worm treatments. Eleven years and everyone does great, they vacation with us, go to dog shows and run errands daily. We also pet sit. 

Liz


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## sozzle (May 18, 2011)

I've only had my dog 2 years and he had all the 'core' vaccines at adoption time. I have given him a kennel cough booster as there was the possibility of him going into kennels (requirement for there) but I told my vet last month that I would take his vaccinations out to 3 years....although knowing me I will probably not give him any more. Especially since I found out last week that my father in law (retired vet prof) doesn't vaccinate his intact 12 year old b.collie. He does use topical flea treatments regularly (every couple of months) but doesn't worm. 
We don't have rabies or heartworm in NZ.
I, like you hate using those bloody awful chemicals on my dog and he does have a few fleas at the moment but I am trying other methods to get rid of them. I have only ever used them about 3 times in the last 2 years. I also have only wormed him once as I thought another dog that was staying here had them.
I live in suburbia with a small back garden but we do meet other dogs every day on our walks at the river and parks. We don't really have any proper dog parks in my town as it is easy to find off leash areas.
(I worry when the flea treatment says:WARNING - flammable liquid and vapour
Keep out of reach of children.
If spilt on skin remove contaminated clothing and wash affected areas of skin etc etc)
...and then we go and put it on our dog's skin - what the hell??


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## SuperPug (Mar 5, 2013)

I wish I could go without vaccinating Emma. My apartment landlord requires the documents of Emma's rabies every time we renew our lease.:tsk: She knows we do the 3 year vaccination, but she's one that believes the vaccines actually work and keeps recommending us to do the yearly vaccination.

On the flea topicals, my childhood dog used to slink away like she was in trouble when giving her flea topical. I always wondered why, these days I know why. She knew it wasn't good for her.


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## lauren43 (Feb 6, 2011)

As of right now Avery is due for Lepto and Bordatella...I'm going to go as long as I can. I do not believe their are titers for these and most places do require them (daycare is the only thing I worry about) and then if I ever have to board him again he will probably have to be vetted. I think distemper is 3 years now as well as rabies, I do get rabies as I do try to keep my dog licensed.


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## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

We do very limited puppy vaccines then only rabies every three years after that. Unfortunately, some states require it every year. My old guy just got his most recent one at almost 9 years old. That will be his last one ever. I really only vaccinate for rabies because I fear our unjust authorities rather than the disease itself.


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

All of mine had their whole puppy series, but that was it, ever. The reason they had those was because they didn't come from natural rearing, raw feeding breeders. If they had, no puppy vaccines would have been given.


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## InkedMarie (Sep 9, 2011)

I do puppy vaccines, then that's it. Rabies every three years. Heartworm preventive every 45 days, May through October. Bug Off Garlic and ACV for pesky critters.


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## CadencesMom (May 8, 2013)

Cadence was given all of her routine shots because she was in a shelter. From now on she'll only be getting rabies. (Unless by chance the military base requires other shots, in which case we might have to do it. :-/) 

However she is on Trifexis, the Flea, Tick and Heartworm prevention monthly. But I have to do that because where we're located is a Flea Hot-spot and she's allergic to them. Her hair starts falling out where she's been bit, rashes, etc. It's terrible. So I'd rather just prevent it from happening in general.


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## Lisa R (Apr 13, 2013)

Chessie had her puppy core and rabies. I titer for Distemper and Parvo. I will get her the rabies vaccine at 3 year intervals but only because it's the law. I currently use Revolution for heartworm and fleas May - Nov. but am looking into alternatives. I did Bordatella while she was young and in puppy classes. I don't bother any more I figure she's been exposed to it many times at this point in her life. I don't do Lepto... for that I would research how prevalent it is in your area and base my decision on her risk of exposure.


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## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

Well, you know me. Mol gets her rabies every 3 years and distemper. I don't do Bordatella. I would love to just titre for rabies and distemper but I'm wary as there is a chance I may have to take the animals back home to NZ at some stage and because there is no rabies there, they are super strict when it comes to rabies and importation.
I'm in a bit of a dilemma at the moment with the new pup Joey. To get him into any of the puppy classes here, he has to have all the shots including bortella. I don't want to give it to him, but it's vital that this dog gets socialisation and I just can't do him justice with the dogs around here, if any dog needs puppy classes this is it. He got the rest of his shots prior to me adopting him.
And, no flea meds for my crowd, ever. Mollie had K9 Advantix when she was young, well before I knew better - once and only once. 
Oh, I do heartworm every 6 weeks in summer (instead of monthly), every 10-12 weeks in winter. Only because I am paranoid of heartworm, and of the importation thing again.


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## kathylcsw (Jul 31, 2011)

MollyWoppy said:


> Well, you know me. Mol gets her rabies every 3 years and distemper. I don't do Bordatella. I would love to just titre for rabies and distemper but I'm wary as there is a chance I may have to take the animals back home to NZ at some stage and because there is no rabies there, they are super strict when it comes to rabies and importation.
> *I'm in a bit of a dilemma at the moment with the new pup Joey*. To get him into any of the puppy classes here, he has to have all the shots including bortella. I don't want to give it to him, but it's vital that this dog gets socialisation and I just can't do him justice with the dogs around here, if any dog needs puppy classes this is it. He got the rest of his shots prior to me adopting him.
> And, no flea meds for my crowd, ever. Mollie had K9 Advantix when she was young, well before I knew better - once and only once.
> Oh, I do heartworm every 6 weeks in summer (instead of monthly), every 10-12 weeks in winter. Only because I am paranoid of heartworm, and of the importation thing again.


Why have we jnot seen any pictures of this new puppy?? If they have been shared I must have missed them.


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## lauren43 (Feb 6, 2011)

Kathy you missed out. He is adorable. I do not think he was posted here however.


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## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

CadencesMom said:


> Cadence was given all of her routine shots because she was in a shelter. From now on she'll only be getting rabies. (Unless by chance the military base requires other shots, in which case we might have to do it. :-/)
> 
> However she is on Trifexis, the Flea, Tick and Heartworm prevention monthly. But I have to do that because where we're located is a Flea Hot-spot and she's allergic to them. Her hair starts falling out where she's been bit, rashes, etc. It's terrible. So I'd rather just prevent it from happening in general.


I just moved from military housing and ours only required that the dogs be licensed and be vaccinated for rabies. I can't say for sure for individual bases but my guess is that they will only require rabies. Actually, let me know when you find out. I'd love to know that information for future reference.


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## Sheltielover25 (Jan 18, 2011)

Mine have had vaccines but almost every time it has come back to bite me in the butt. From here on out, and with any new animal, we will never vaccinate again. Never.

No chemicals at all allowed for my gang. We would rather be itchy than hurt their kidneys and liver....

And I should add, just because Rabies is the law doesn't mean I'm following it. I know firsthand the risks of a reaction are much greater than the risks of something happening where they need proof. Everything in life is a gamble, and I'm not willing to risk more damage to my animals because of a silly law.


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## Sampson653 (May 4, 2012)

Thanks everyone for your responses, its so nice to know what other raw feeders do. I feel like its hard to rationalize this with vets because raw feeding is so much different than kibble fed dogs and they have way less issues and needs throughout their lives. 

I am still debating the lepto only because we do go swimming and stuff in lakes a lot over the summer. I did some reading about the vaccination and its supposed to protect against diseases that come from water ..... should I just let it go and see what happens? He did have it last year with his puppy shots and our little puppy had it when we rescued her. Her too, she received all shots because she was a rescue. 

Its so hard to make the "right" decision when you have the vets the so called "experts" demanding things. I just want to do whats right / best.


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## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

I should also add that we do a ton of camping and hiking as well.


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## SuperPug (Mar 5, 2013)

What is the lepto vaccine?
Never heard of it here.

For the record, Emma swims in a ton of lakes, ponds, rivers and beaches. She has never ones encountered an issue from swimming.


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## lauren43 (Feb 6, 2011)

I believe the disease is found in the urine of critters like squirrels and what not. My vet said they've had two cases thus far, to me that's not enough to cause concern. Also there are so many different strains of these illnesses the chances of vaccinating for the right strain is hit or miss.


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## SuperPug (Mar 5, 2013)

hm....so it would be sorta like vaccinating for Kennel cough? There's so many different strains that it's really not worth it.


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## lauren43 (Feb 6, 2011)

From what I understand about the disease (and this is minimal)...your vet should know what strains are common in your area and therefore vaccinate for those. Avery has been vaccinated for lepto in the past, so in my opinion he should be covered, getting it every year seems redundant. But the disease itself can be kinda scary, with ranging symptoms, so Ido understand why the vaccine is recommended.


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## Evey (May 14, 2013)

I'm literally just changing from a kibble diet but my rule with vaccinations has always been to make 'em last as long as you can!
My older dog had an allergic reaction to the Lepto shot (he only got it once) where the whites of his eyes became swollen and took over a day to go down (plus was another vet visit). He's 13years old now and has had rabies every 3years since he was a puppy simply because it's the law (I adopted him at 2.5years old but got his previous records). As for Bordetella and Distemper, we stopped those a few years ago and won't be getting anymore unless we are forced to by a situation. My younger dog has only received her puppy shots plus a booster to her rabies (a year later, as required again) but I don't plan to vaccinate her on a regular basis.

My heartworm medication is the same as my flea/tick control. I've always been hesitant and the only time I gave it to my dogs is when we headed to the cottage. This year I am thinking I'll skip it all together even though we'll be at the cottage, as my older boy has elevated liver enzymes and my young girl is hyper sensitive to drugs/antibiotics.


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## kathylcsw (Jul 31, 2011)

My vet does not reccomend the lepto vaccine. She says that she has seen such bad side effects that it outweighs any benefits.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

Granted, I don't feed raw, but I do no vaccinations on Murph and only rabies every 3 years on Abbie.

Murph had an awful reaction to the rabies vaccine at 6 months old, and it seems like he had more and more health problems shortly thereafter...so he has not gotten it again and he is almost 4 years old. Murph is about the furthest thing from being a bite risk, and i think his risk of being near a rabid animal is pretty low too, so I have decided to not give it to him again, even if it is breaking the law :-X

Vet supports my decision, and said if I do choose to do so, we could just give him something beforehand to prevent an allergic reaction, but I'm still pretty sure I do not want him to be exposed to it again.

This is later in the day after his vaccination:


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## pogo (Aug 28, 2011)

No vaccinations here, we also don't have any mandatory vacs here being in the UK either, no conventional worming or flea treatments either


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## SuperPug (Mar 5, 2013)

I envy you pogo!


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

meggels, does your state have medical waivers?


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

magicre said:


> meggels, does your state have medical waivers?


I would have to find out. My vet has mentioned writing a letter asking for exemption to the state veterinary board...


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## FBarnes (Feb 17, 2013)

Evey said:


> I'm literally just changing from a kibble diet but my rule with vaccinations has always been to make 'em last as long as you can!
> My older dog had an allergic reaction to the Lepto shot (he only got it once) where the whites of his eyes became swollen and took over a day to go down (plus was another vet visit). He's 13years old now and has had rabies every 3years since he was a puppy simply because it's the law (I adopted him at 2.5years old but got his previous records). As for Bordetella and Distemper, we stopped those a few years ago and won't be getting anymore unless we are forced to by a situation. My younger dog has only received her puppy shots plus a booster to her rabies (a year later, as required again) but I don't plan to vaccinate her on a regular basis.
> 
> My heartworm medication is the same as my flea/tick control. I've always been hesitant and the only time I gave it to my dogs is when we headed to the cottage. This year I am thinking I'll skip it all together even though we'll be at the cottage, as my older boy has elevated liver enzymes and my young girl is hyper sensitive to drugs/antibiotics.


If you give heartworm sporadically you should give it AFTER exposure, not before. It kills larva in the bloodstream but it doesn't prevent them from getting there in the first place. So if you give it before you go it won't do any good.


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## FBarnes (Feb 17, 2013)

kathylcsw said:


> My vet does not reccomend the lepto vaccine. She says that she has seen such bad side effects that it outweighs any benefits.


Ditto my vet. And she refuses to give it to small dogs, period. She will give it to a large one only if the owner insists. I find that telling coming from a vet when normally vets want you to get anything and everything.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

meggels said:


> I would have to find out. My vet has mentioned writing a letter asking for exemption to the state veterinary board...



reason i ask is because my state says no way to medical waivers, but there are states who will offer them.


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## Herzo (Feb 5, 2011)

magicre said:


> reason i ask is because my state says no way to medical waivers, but there are states who will offer them.


I can't hardly believe that, I thought all States had a waver for dogs that have had a reaction to it. How sad is that


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

Herzo said:


> I can't hardly believe that, I thought all States had a waver for dogs that have had a reaction to it. How sad is that


nope. there are states just like mine where medical waivers are not offered nor accepted.


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## InkedMarie (Sep 9, 2011)

magicre said:


> nope. there are states just like mine where medical waivers are not offered nor accepted.


Auckland is a state? LOL!


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

InkedMarie said:


> Auckland is a state? LOL!


you are too funny....


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## Herzo (Feb 5, 2011)

magicre said:


> nope. there are states just like mine where medical waivers are not offered nor accepted.


I wonder how you could go about getting that changed? How can they be so dense? Then if your dog has a reaction and it die's that's just too bad? Wowy!!!!

Is rabies that strong there, we have it here but I know we can get a waver as I had an aunt that got one.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

Herzo said:


> I wonder how you could go about getting that changed? How can they be so dense? Then if your dog has a reaction and it die's that's just too bad? Wowy!!!!
> 
> Is rabies that strong there, we have it here but I know we can get a waver as I had an aunt that got one.


according to the CDC, who counts such things....the last case of rabies in my state was in 2002....and it was a bat. 

one of the most pro dog states in the lower 48 and the most archaic of dog law.


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## Herzo (Feb 5, 2011)

magicre said:


> according to the CDC, who counts such things....the last case of rabies in my state was in 2002....and it was a bat.
> 
> one of the most pro dog states in the lower 48 and the most archaic of dog law.


It's funny how each state has it's own strange way's. I would think your state would be on top of things.... now looky here we have good old Wyoming ahead of Washington on this one. And we defiantly have rabies here but it's usually bats and skunks. We had a cow once that went crazy and I really think she had it but we didn't have her checked for it.

2 Years ago a dog just out of town got bitten by a skunk and of course the dog had missed it's last rabies shot so they locked it up in a trailer and only the vet could go take care of it. I kept asking how it was doing as I was sure the dog was still protected and it never got rabies. I don't know how long it had been since it had a shot but probably not to much over 3 years if it was even that long.

Seems to me that it was a pretty good test for the vaccine to be lasting longer than they say.


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## shellbell (Sep 24, 2011)

Herzo said:


> I wonder how you could go about getting that changed? How can they be so dense? Then if your dog has a reaction and it die's that's just too bad? Wowy!!!!
> 
> Is rabies that strong there, we have it here but I know we can get a waver as I had an aunt that got one.


There is a Rabies Challenge Fund, supported by Dr. Dodds, trying to extend the boosters to only be needed every 5 to 7 years. Medical waivers to be exempt from the Rabies vaccine are different, and are done on a state by state basis. They pass in some states, not all. Missouri tried to pass it but of course someone defeated it....


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## Tobi (Mar 18, 2011)

I just don't have it done... His first was his last. Law or not, I don't subscribe to the bs legislature.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

shellbell said:


> There is a Rabies Challenge Fund, supported by Dr. Dodds, trying to extend the boosters to only be needed every 5 to 7 years. Medical waivers to be exempt from the Rabies vaccine are different, and are done on a state by state basis. They pass in some states, not all. Missouri tried to pass it but of course someone defeated it....


i think people are scared.....i can well understand the fear....but fear without education just breeds more fear....sigh.


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