# Help needed with digestive systems



## Ziggy (Mar 25, 2013)

Hi - I have posted a week or so ago re my concern over Castor & Pollux having sold the line of food to Merrick. I managed to buy some cans from Whole Foods that were okay as they were canned prior to the takeover in January 2013. However, both my 1 year old Ziggy and 8 year old Allie now have digestive problems. Ziggy had a loose stool and threw up a brown substance like dirt not kibble This is the first time ever he has thrown up since I adopted him in April 2012) and then it resolved yesterday but today the stool is almost water; Allie had a normal stool Wed. night and 1 hour later had watery diarrhea. Allie went to the vet on Thursday at 1pm and was given endosorb; she did not have enough of a stool to take a sample; I dropped off a stool sample for Ziggy this a.m. and the results will be in Sat. a.m. The doctor said to give Ziggy Endosorb when I called this morning - his 7am stool was okay; his 10 a.m. was very soft; at 1pm he had a watery stool (this is after the endosorb). I am very concerned as I cannot determine if it is the food - as in perhaps the dry Organix is slightly different or if both dogs ate something in the yard - I live in Las Vegas so it is not much of a yard - sand and rock with a small sodded area for Ziggy - Allie is allergic to grass. I now do not permit them to pick up rocks or anything in the yard but last week they both ate some dirt that was where a tree had been removed prior to our moving here in December; the only other new thing in the yard is the pine trees are shedding but I have not seem them eat anything to do with that. 

Please let me know your thoughts. The vets are not very good in Las Vegas and I am really concerned.

Thank you.


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## Dobelover (Mar 14, 2013)

I would definitely switch foods...before we went to raw we used summit free and fit formula..our dog did very well on that. Grain free and excellent protein sources. But just make sure they do a fecal sample to check for parasites...but I bet it's the food...Merrick has their own rendering plant...I wouldn't trust their food.
To help clear up the diarrhea, you could ask your vet for some metronidazole...it works extremely well. You could also just feed some cooked chicken and plain white rice...


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## Ziggy (Mar 25, 2013)

The stool sample was negative; I am going to switch - the doctor said very slowly; I am considering Earthborn Holistic with grain; the dogs have never been on a grain free diet. Merrick assured me that they did not change the formula but who knows. When we left El Paso and were on our way to Las Cruces, we passed some cattle yards and it was so horrible and the smell. I cried for several miles. Am glad I am a vegetarian. What you said about Merrick owning rendering plants made me think about that.


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## Georgiapeach (Jan 24, 2011)

Can you get Acana? Their Classic and Singles Lines contain steel cut oats, which most dogs do well on. Their Burbank Chicken is good, as is the Duck and Pear and also their Lamb and Apple.


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## monster'sdad (Jul 29, 2012)

Georgiapeach said:


> Can you get Acana? Their Classic and Singles Lines contain steel cut oats, which most dogs do well on. Their Burbank Chicken is good, as is the Duck and Pear and also their Lamb and Apple.


Why are steel cut oats better than rolled oats or any other oats for that matter? Fair question. 

Aren't oats, well oats?


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## Dobelover (Mar 14, 2013)

If he has diarrhea there's no need to switch the food gradually...just start the new food. Another good one to try is Fromm large breed puppy...it has oats in it, that helps with sensitive stomachs.


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## FBarnes (Feb 17, 2013)

if they are still having watery stools their gut needs to rest. When my dogs have an upset stomach I fast them, giving them slippery elm, pedalyte or coconut water, and chicken broth for at least 24 hours before starting food up again. And I feed them very small amounts at first, gradually increasing. If you switch foods they may not take well to it if you don't give their digestive system a chance to recuperate.


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## Georgiapeach (Jan 24, 2011)

monster'sdad said:


> Why are steel cut oats better than rolled oats or any other oats for that matter? Fair question.
> 
> Aren't oats, well oats?


Steel cut oats have a lower glycemic index than rolled oats, which causes less of a spike in blood sugar. Being less processed, they also cause the user to feel full longer, lessening the chances of overeating.


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## Ziggy (Mar 25, 2013)

Thank you for all of the above; the doctor said to switch gradually as Ziggy now has a firm stool as does Allie - of course the way it has been going that could change at any time. Fromm is very hard to find - I would have to have a speciality store order it; the foods I can get in stock at only two stores I found include Acana; Earthborn Holistic; Vita Source - well there are several. However most of their formulas are grain free which brings up "should I change to grain free while making this change". I am concerned about the high protein level in grain free. Earthborn is one of the best sellers at both stores. Merrick - thanks to all of you I did a lot of research re Tejas Industries/Merrick and it was not a pretty picture. However, they deny, consistently, any connection with the rendering plant but I have lost all trust in Merrick. All of this having been said - any suggestions as to grain or grain free and which brands. Acana sounds great but it will be difficult to get except grain free.


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## Dobelover (Mar 14, 2013)

When we did kibble we did grain free. Dogs don't need grains. The Go fit and free was a good choice for us. Excellent protein sources and no fillers. A higher protein level is just fine.


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## Ziggy (Mar 25, 2013)

I found two stores - one has everything grain free and I can purchase either Acana (not the Acana with the steel oats) or Earthborn; the other one has Earthborn both with grain and without grain. Will have to take the plunge tomorrow.
The store that carries Acana said they could order the formula with oats but I don't want to ask them to do that if the dogs do not do well on it.
Thank you for all your help.


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## DaViking (Sep 27, 2011)

Dobelover said:


> Dogs don't need grains.


Do they need potatoes, peas, beans, tapioca, lentils, yams, and a host of other carb sources?


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## monster'sdad (Jul 29, 2012)

Georgiapeach said:


> Steel cut oats have a lower glycemic index than rolled oats, which causes less of a spike in blood sugar. Being less processed, they also cause the user to feel full longer, lessening the chances of overeating.


I think that is all marketing fluff. Oats in dog food are cooked to the point where it doesn't matter how the actual oat grain was cut or ground. By the way, there is no standard for what is and what is not a "glycemic" food for dogs. You are just reading what some pet food companies say using the very questionable human index, which doesn't mean much or apply to dogs and especially to kibble, where other ingredients are mixed together. For a few thousand dollars a year, every food is a low gylcemic food on that website.

Steel cut oats definitely taste better to me, but insofar as dry dog food is concerned whole oats are whole oats. The expensive steel cut oats will be ground pretty much to flour or cooked to mush before being mixed with other ingredients. It is very clever marketing on Champion's part, as it deflects the criticism of grains it uses for the marketing of the GF formulas.


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## Dobelover (Mar 14, 2013)

They don't "need" them...but they can have them...


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## Dobelover (Mar 14, 2013)

DaViking said:


> Do they need potatoes, peas, beans, tapioca, lentils, yams, and a host of other carb sources?


They don't "NEED" them...but they can have them...


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## DaViking (Sep 27, 2011)

Dobelover said:


> They don't "NEED" them...but they can have them...


Just to clarify, they can have these plants/carbs but not grains is that correct?


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## Dobelover (Mar 14, 2013)

You can feed dogs whatever you like, does it always mean that it's healthy or beneficial for them? It's a fact that dogs don't need grains...that's a no brainer. But hey, if you like them, go for it 
I guess is just like to choose higher quality ingredients, that's just me. In the end we all do what we think is best for our fur babies


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## DaViking (Sep 27, 2011)

So that was a yes?


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## Dobelover (Mar 14, 2013)

DaViking said:


> So that was a yes?


You do whatever you want...you are nothing but sarcastic and rude and don't like to hear other advice but your own. I'm done responding to you.


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## DaViking (Sep 27, 2011)

Dobelover said:


> You do whatever you want...you are nothing but sarcastic and rude and don't like to hear other advice but your own. I'm done responding to you.


I wonder if that sarcasm is rooted in the fact that, barring any medical reasons for not feeding an ingredient, your line of thought does not make any digestive or metabolic sense. At the end of the day it's not about groups of ingredients. It's about individual ingredients, how they are used and when they are used. But yes, you are correct everyone do as they want. If you want to shoot yourself in the foot and limp around (read; restrict the number of good foods available to your dogs) the rest of your life that's your call. Nothing more I can say, you just have to figure it out yourself.


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