# "must be the raw diet" Seriously??



## kathylcsw (Jul 31, 2011)

So today I was talking to my supervisor, a fellow dog lover, about an incident with Buster last night. Buster is my 3 month old Toy Fox Terrier who has been raw fed since I brought him home at almost 8 weeks old.

He is VERY food motivated. More so than any dog I have had. I do worry that it is because I have had issues getting the correct amount to feed him. When I took him to the vet 2 weeks ago he said he would be better weighing 1/4 to 1/2 lb more than he did at that time. I am now feeding him a bit over 3 oz per day over 3 meals up from about 2 oz.

So anyway last night he got in the trash while I was getting the dogs' dinner weighed out and got out a meat patty I had thrown away - probably 4oz worth. I assumed that he and Lola had split part of it but it looks like he probably ate most or all of it himself. I went on and fed him his dinner as usual. When I let him out of the crate he ran into the kitchen to finish the canned food the cats didn't eat. I brought him back in the living room and noticed that his little belly was swollen up like he was pregnant and ready to drop puppies! He was actually fine with no explosive diarrhea or vomitting last night or this morning and his belly looked ok this morning too.

I was telling this to my supervisor and talking about how I think he would literally eat himself to death if not stopped. She then suggested that maybe the raw diet didn't provide any carbs and that might be why he always felt hungry and referred me to either Victoria Stilwell or Ceasar Milan for guidance. Last time I checked these are "behavioralists" with no training or credentials in terms of dog nutrition! I just smiled and walked away because she IS my supervisor.

While it is frustrating dealing with a puppy who wants to eat all the time I know it is not raw related! I also know that some dogs are just like that and all I can do is try to keep him from gorging like that again. It is just annoying that some people want to blame everything on feeding a raw diet! I just needed a little rant and now back to work.


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## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

Tess is like that as well. Some dogs just are. She is like that with any food, raw or not.. I have a feeling the breeder may not have free fed the dogs so she felt like she always had to steal and gulp food from her littermates.


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## Rodeo (Sep 11, 2011)

Definitely not the raw. 

Duke's sister is kibble fed and has gorged herself like that a couple of times. She literally looked pregnant. It's just a dog thing. :tongue:


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

you can tell your supervisor that cesar milan fed 'daddy' raw.....even when he was putting his name on another line's pet food.

not supporting or judging, just sayin'. 

oh. and daddy lived to be, what, 16 or 17?


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

Even when fed kibble most of my dogs self regulated their intake but I have always had at least one who would eat herself to death. My Willow has eaten till she literally couldn't move and just lie there and threw up over and over. She has done this on kibble and raw - she is crazy.


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## monkeys23 (Dec 8, 2010)

Yep, not the raw. Lily would do that too. In fact she is a lot more satiated being raw fed than she was on kibble.


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## Mondo (Dec 20, 2011)

Ditto. Not the raw. Tuffy self regulates. Toby will eat and eat and eat. He was worse with kibble. He still is starvin', but not as bad as he was with kibble. Atypical Cushings in his case is part or all of the problem. They both free fed as pups without issue, then a few years ago Toby turned into a hoover.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Oh Lord. I know snorkels would eat herself to death, and she was kibble fed her whole life. In fact, she once got into a bag of dog food and I had to take her to the ER for dehydration - when they took the x-ray there were no organs visible that I could tell - just a hugely distended stomach and intestines full of dog foodl.

If I hadn't stopped her, would she have eaten herself to death? I really have no doubt she would. Raw food hasn't changed her, but it was certainly not any cause of her food obsession. Last week, we had company and someone left candy down and she ate 6 peanut butter bars and a bag of sour gummy worms. The bag of gummy worms was not much smaller then she is.

I have owned many, many dogs - close to 50. Never have I had a dog like this. It's just insane. We can't even keep cereal within her reach, or she will chew through the cardboard box. And she has attacked a plastic tub with dog food inside although i got to her before she could get through it. I have no doubt she would have, even with only four teeth.


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

This Christmas total for my darling Willow was a Giant candy kiss including the foil wrapper, two one pound boxes of cinnamon gummi candies, two cookie trays from the neighbors (at least she left the tray), One med jar of peanut butter (beloved but untrainable husband left out - children know better) 4 pounds of dehydrated lamb lung including the bags they were in, A one pound round container of dehydrated raw liver treats, and not one day of diarrhea and no blockages. Lots of fasting for her though. She can open child safety locks, refrigerator doors, etc.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

I've thought about changing Murph's name to "Gluttony". He honestly would eat himself to death if I allowed him to. And people are always like "SEE! HE IS HUNGRY!!! YOU NEED TO FEED HIM MORE!"


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## bernadettelevis (Feb 2, 2011)

My dog is the same. He also was before he was raw fed.

he even eats flour and raw rice and pratically anything he can fit in his mouth :/


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

bernadettelevis said:


> My dog is the same. He also was before he was raw fed.
> 
> he even eats flour and raw rice and pratically anything he can fit in his mouth :/


Snorkels will eat anything that's edible to any human or animal - bird seed, peanuts in the shell etc. But she won't eat anything that's not - for instance, when she ate the peanut butter bars she carefully took each one out of the wrapper and left the plastic on the floor. At least I don't have to worry about her eating stuff like that.

I haven't tried her with flour! Ha - wonder if she would eat it.


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## bernadettelevis (Feb 2, 2011)

xellil said:


> Snorkels will eat anything that's edible to any human or animal - bird seed, peanuts in the shell etc. But she won't eat anything that's not - for instance, when she ate the peanut butter bars she carefully took each one out of the wrapper and left the plastic on the floor. At least I don't have to worry about her eating stuff like that.
> 
> I haven't tried her with flour! Ha - wonder if she would eat it.


he will also only eat "edible" things though....i guess this kind of is a positive thing :/


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## shellbell (Sep 24, 2011)

My labs would absolutely eat themselves to death if given the chance. They have always been like that. One of them even likes to try and eat sticks and leaves in the backyard.


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## Rodeo (Sep 11, 2011)

I'm so jealous of people who have dogs who self regulate!! The only time Rodeo ever turned down food was after she ate all my jerky... she drank plenty though haha.


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## kathylcsw (Jul 31, 2011)

It makes me feel tons better to read about all the other dogs out there like Buster! It is always better to know others share your pain! I just have never had a dog like him so it will be a learning experience for me! I mean my dogs have always loved to eat but I have never had one bloat up like he did last night. And to have not thrown up or had explosive diarrhea last night just amazes me. He didn't act sick at all. He actually acted like he was hyped up. It took me forever to get him to lay down and go to sleep last night. He usually snuggels up and goes to sleep with me but last night he was just wired! This morning he was acting like normal. I will just need to watch him more closely in the kitchen.


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## brandypup (Jan 23, 2012)

I absolutly love Victoria-until she starts talking diet and vaccines. UGH. I dont like Ceasar at all. So many people look up to others and think they have all the answers. It's would be mch better if they answered that they are a trainer (at least victoria ) and not offer much more else on nutrition. Or at least learn teh pros and cons of their advise without learning more. 

I think my beagle would eat until a pop happenend. I never seen him refuse food or anything that resembles food.


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## doggoblin (Jun 6, 2011)

Can you ask why if carbohydrates are needed by dogs, they are not included in the Association of American Feed Control Officials (AAFCO) dog food nutrient profiles, or the European counterpart (http://www.fediaf.org/fileadmin/use...onal_Guidelines_-_final_version_6-09-11.pdf)? These are the profiles dog foods need to match to be considered "complete".

The white paper for Orijin states 


> As amylase is not present in saliva, the burden is entirely on the pancreas to produce the amylase needed to digest carbohydrates.
> 
> Feeding dogs as though they were omnivores or herbivores makes the pancreas work harder in order to digest the carbohydrate-filled foods (instead of just producing normal amounts of the enzymes needed to digest proteins and fats)


and


> According to Dr. David S. Kronfeld, carbohydrates need not be supplied to adult dogs, even those working hard as the liver is easily able to synthesize sufficient glucose (from protein and fats)


The main reason carbohydrates are added to commercial foods is that they are cheap and needed to form the shapes of kibble.


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## Maxy24 (Mar 5, 2011)

I feel like a lot of dogs would gorge. It is instinctual, a wild animal cannot guarantee that he'll eat again any time soon, so he must snarf down as much as possible to live off of. Many domestic dogs retain that instinct. Dogs are opportunistic, if there is food, they feel they should eat it, just in case.


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## Kat (Jul 12, 2011)

If I left food down for Ruby throughout the day, she would eat it until she exploded Im sure. Even with 4 oz. per meal of raw she would still eat more if she could. My mom ends up feeling bad and sneaks her random stuff, the other day she gave her a "piece" of banana and Ruby had explosive diarrhea. Some people will just always be stubborn, and a lot of people for some reason think overweight dogs look better than slim ones. Ruby weighs 16 pounds and my mom is always telling me she is too thin hwell:


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## Donna Little (May 31, 2011)

I think all 10 of mine would eat til they were nearly dead. Angel MAY be the only one that would stop. 
Karma is my 12 lb doxie mix and she ate about 2 lbs of puppy kibble one night. I'd brought home an owner surrendered Beagle puppy and they had sent some no name brand crap with her and I sat it on my screened porch to throw away. Karma got on the table and ate the rest of the bag. It was close to half full and was a 5 lb bag. I didn't know she'd done it and called them to eat later that day. She ate her dinner anyway but was eating really slowly, (totally unlike her) and I told my hubby I thought she didn't feel well. 
When I found the bag torn up and empty a little while later I couldn't believe she'd eaten that much, and STILL eaten dinner! :shocked: That's when I noticed how bloated her belly was. She was fine by the next day too but REALLY?! Seriously. No. Off. Button....


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## swolek (Mar 31, 2011)

Sounds like Gracie. She's absolutely ridiculous with food and would eat until exploding if given the chance. She was fed kibble in her past home and raw here...same behavior, it's just the way she is. Our other dogs love food but it's not like Gracie's crazy behavior.


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## eternalstudent (Jul 22, 2010)

Defo not the raw.

If you want someone to blame, blame the humans that wanted working dogs 

We like our dogs to work all day - rat terriers needed to kill rats all night. Labs needed to retrieve shot game all day.

They would all be pretty useless if they wanted to have a good sleep after feeding - especially if they ate some of there kill. So we selectively bred dogs that do not feel full so they constantly search for more food.

People like to blame what they do not understand or agree with for any mishap that ever happened :-( but be rest assured it is not the diet!


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## lauren43 (Feb 6, 2011)

Avery has never over indulged like some of your pups but he has also never ever refused food. If its available he'll eat it. He eats fabric toys and sticks when he can.


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