# 2 questions about Nature's Domain - grain and pro/prebiotics



## Mina (Apr 4, 2013)

Hello ev1.

I have a couple of questions. My (large breed) dog has done well on Orijen over the years but, although I don't feel he needs a "senior" food, Orijen now seems to be too rich for his system. Also, I should mention that raw is definitely not an option. So I now find myself dog food shopping again.

I'm very tempted to try Nature's Domain from Costco (both the Salmon and the Turkey) which, relatively recently, has been introduced into our Costcos. The food looks okay on paper, and the price is certainly tempting! They look, more or less, like their Kirkland brand (none of my dogs did well on Kirkland), except with peas and potatoes rather than rice products. I had phoned the manufacturer to ask about the price difference and was told by the rep that ND has _probiotics_ and _prebiotics_. I can't see that making a huge difference in price, but what do I know? Anyways ...

1) I'm not sure there is any advantage of potato or pea over rice so, assuming that the dog has no issues with grains, are there any advantages of going to, or staying with, a grain-free food? 

2) Would there actually be sufficient amounts of probiotics and prebiotics in Nature's Domain to make a difference?

I know there are lots of decent alternative dry dog foods out there. Right now, I'm focussing specifically on Nature's Domain, so any other information would be greatly appreciated. Also, I realize that all of this may be academic as, my dog may not do well on the food. Also, I still have to get past the fact that it's a Diamond product.


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## twotonelover (Jan 10, 2011)

First I should say I have never personally fed Natures Domain or the regular Kirkland brand. But from just looking at the food, it just looks like a bag of potatoes to me. I'd feed their regular Kirkland brand before I fed Nature's Domain (unless my dog had a grain allergy). Just my opinion. I'm not sure on the pro/pre biotic question. You could always add your own to the food if you find your dog needs it. 

When you say Orijen is too "rich" for him, what does this mean? Have you tried simply feeding less of Orijen? 

Obviously there are plenty other grain free foods out there as well, I've seen Acana, Nutrisource, Fromm and Earthborn recommended on here quite a bit. I'm not too up to speed on kibble these days so hopefully someone else will chime in


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## kevin bradley (Aug 9, 2009)

Since we all have questions/apprehensive thoughts about Diamond, I went ahead and wrote them a letter, asking about recent Quality issues/recalls they've had. Following is their response. I'm still not comfortable adding their foods to my rotation... Tim's food is working pretty well. I didn't LOVE the response. Too much "we're going to do this" and "we're going to do that..."

But their foods are hard to compete with on price, admittedly.


Dear Kevin, 

Thank you for your inquiry. 

Diamond Pet Food has undertaken a comprehensive review of every aspect of their Quality and Food Safety program. The owners of Diamond and their entire management team are fully committed to revising all of their existing programs and developing new programs to ensure the highest quality, safest pet foods.

Additional layers of food safety have already been implemented that go beyond the existing Diamond Pet Foods 151 quality and safety checks. Training and education have been improved and increased in frequency. A new 5 part training program has been developed to specifically address Microbiological awareness. GAP analysis is being conducted to assess where each program is and where it needs to be so that any identified GAPs can be closed. Included in this process are 1,575 micro tests per week which encompasses salmonella, enterobacteriacea and coliforms. 

Every component of Diamond's Quality and Food Safety program is being not only reviewed but strengthened. This includes multiple levels of new quality controls at the pre-production, production, and post-production stages. Diamond is committed to not only making changes today, but also creating a culture where improvements are continuous.

Diamond has made a commitment to utilize extensive internal auditing as well as periodic third party auditing. This will increase their ability to rapidly implement changes needed.

The Quality and Food Safety program enhancements will rely on risk analysis and prevention controls in incoming ingredients, process controls and finished product analysis. New test and hold procedures will be utilized to verify that the new programs are effective. All of the programs will rely on strong scientific support.

Concerning the Gaston, South Carolina specifically, operations in April ceased for approximately 3 weeks while all equipment was completely dismantled and sanitized. Significant equipment modifications were made to enhance cleaning and sanitation efforts and procedures. A third party ISO certified mobile microbiological laboratory was opened on site to facilitate testing. With this lab now firmly onsite, a positive release program for salmonella has been enacted.

Through new testing, education, procedural changes, equipment modification, and facility improvements, Diamond Pet Foods is fully committed to ensuring the highest quality, safest pet foods.

Sincerely,

April
Customer Service


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## PDXdogmom (Jun 30, 2010)

I have never fed Nature's Domain or Kirkland and do feel hesitant about Diamond's track record. If you are looking for a less complicated, lower protein and lower price formula than Orijen Adult, I suggest looking at the NutriSource brand. Super Premium Dog Food & Cat Food | NutriSource

The company (based in Minnesota) has been in business 40 years with no recalls. They have both grain-free and grain inclusive. The regular NutriSource Adult Chicken is 26% protein and 16% fat and can be purchased at about $39 for a 33 lb. bag. Their grain free formulas are 28% protein and 18% fat. Although your dog may benefit from a more simple formula and maybe not quite as high of protein, seniors still need a fair amount of quality protein to preserve muscle tone. One of my dogs, a 12 year old golden, does very well on a grain-free fish formula with 30% protein and 16% fat.

Also keep in mind that the Nature's Domain has only 336 kcal/cup; so you would have to feed a lot more of that than the Orijen - which makes it not quite as cost effective as on first glance.


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## monster'sdad (Jul 29, 2012)

Kevin, salmonella recalls are going to accelerate. The threshold has been placed very low.

It could result in mandatory irradiation.


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## Mina (Apr 4, 2013)

Thanks for the replies so far:



twotonelover said:


> ... But from just looking at the food, it just looks like a bag of potatoes to me...


I'll assume from the above that you feed raw, twotone? :becky:



twotonelover said:


> ... When you say Orijen is too "rich" for him, what does this mean? Have you tried simply feeding less of Orijen?


By "rich", I mean that, over the past while, he has developed into pooping out a lot more than I think he should. He is not a big eater, and his weight is excellent, so feeding less is not an option. 




kevin bradley said:


> Since we all have questions/apprehensive thoughts about Diamond, I went ahead and wrote them a letter ... But their foods are hard to compete with on price, admittedly.


At less than 1/2 the price of any of the other foods I've used/considered, it's hard not to, at least, consider Costco!

I haven't bother to write Diamond, but I have spoken with both one of their customer reps as well as one of their on-staff veterinarians; towing the proverbial party line, I got little tangible information, except for a letter stating, unequivocally, that that all of their fish is ethoxyquin free. I also spoke with the store manager at my local Costco who, quite frankly, was far more reassuring than either of the Diamond employees. At this point, it looks like I'll probably be trying a bag.



PDXdogmom said:


> ...If you are looking for a less complicated, lower protein and lower price formula than Orijen Adult, I suggest looking at the NutriSource brand. Super Premium Dog Food & Cat Food | NutriSource
> The company (based in Minnesota) has been in business 40 years with no recalls. They have both grain-free and grain inclusive. The regular NutriSource Adult Chicken is 26% protein and 16% fat and can be purchased at about $39 for a 33 lb. bag.


Thanks, PDX. The reason I was "focussing specifically on Nature's Domain", is that being in Canada, there are many foods we cannot get here. Also, although there are many decent dog foods available here, most dog foods are considerably more expensive here. Food similar in quality to that which you are describing would typically sell for _at least_ 40-70% more per bag in my neck of the woods. By the same token, I also get a kick out of how cheaply some of you folks south of the border can get meat for feeding raw!?! :clap2:


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