# behavior, food, need help (really long)



## ZillasMa (May 11, 2009)

Sushi had puppies on Feb. 16. Prior to this last heat cycle she was the dominant one (of the dogs) but didn't have any issues. But, when she came in to heat she started to get food aggressive. She would bark and growl and go into a zone that I couldn't snap her out of. I started feeding the dogs separately, which solved the problem. One time (totally my fault) Sushi came outside while Godzilla's food was down, the fought, both had slices in their ears and Sushi got a few stitches on her chest. After this I was religious about making sure they had no view of each other at feeding time. She had a litter of puppies (I regret it, it won't happen again) and all was good. But when potential new owners would come, Sushi would herd Godzilla, and make him go around the corner of the house so that he could not approach the people. 

Just within the last week she has been getting kinda rough trying to get him to play with her. He will be laying down, and she will start pawing at him, if he ignores her she starts getting growly (not growling, but very vocal) Then she will put his neck in her mouth (not bite down) as if she is correcting a puppy. If he gets irritated he growls and then they get all out of hand. Nobody has bit yet, but she starts barking constantly and I immediately separate. 

Sushi has always been fine around people, kinda iffy around unknown animals, sometimes she is fine, sometime she barks and growls. But today we went to a new holistic vet. When we got there she was fine. But when some dogs came she barked and growled, and then seemed on edge. She would growl at sounds, people...just couldn't seem to relax. Talked to the vet for a while, left the room, Sushi still with the vet, and she was fine after that. Afterwards she let all the people in the lobby pet her, didn't growl at anymore dogs. (Did they drug her?) just kidding! 

And the reason we went to the vet was to get her spayed. The vet said she wants her to gain 6lbs in a week to do the surgery. Is there a way to do this safely? She is underweight, always has been. 3 weeks ago she weighed 78.8 lbs and today she weighed 74.4. I have been feeding 2ish lbs of raw a day, but mostly chicken. I asked her about satin balls, she recommended doing the hamburger, oatmeal, and wheat germ, but said no mollasses.

Any and all advice welcome and appreciated!


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

There are several people that I know of who let their females go into heat before having them spayed, and they all pretty much have said the same thing. The dogs have turned into complete bitches, I had my female spayed at 7 months, before her first heat and she may be the boss of my other male, but they don't fight, no food aggression, or other dog aggression. As far as the weight issue goes RFD would know best, but I would go heavy with chicken and less bone like chicken breasts if that is what your dog is use to. Also, when she does get spayed she'll gain weight, and hopefully calm down. Good Luck!


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## lorih1770 (Jun 17, 2008)

Spaying should help with the agressiveness.

I am a huge fan of the "no free lunch dog training"

Pet Pitbull
Pit Bull Rescue Central

When my female pitbull started getting aggressive with my other dogs I followed this training very strictly for about a month with her and it really worked well.


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

ZillasMa said:


> Sushi has always been fine around people, kinda iffy around unknown animals, sometimes she is fine, sometime she barks and growls. But today we went to a new holistic vet. When we got there she was fine. But when some dogs came she barked and growled, and then seemed on edge. She would growl at sounds, people...just couldn't seem to relax. Talked to the vet for a while, left the room, Sushi still with the vet, and she was fine after that. Afterwards she let all the people in the lobby pet her, didn't growl at anymore dogs. (Did they drug her?) just kidding!


Sometimes spaying helps problems like this but not often. Often your reaction to her acts will either exasurbate them or calm them. It's very difficult not to exasurbate them as our first reaction is to jerk them back and sternly correct them. 

One of my Danes is like this and I have worked with her for 8 years and I can't tell she is any better and she was spayed when I got her. Usually I just immediately remove her from the situation. I don't take her into the vets office until they are ready to see her in the exam room. I have someone hold the front door open and the door to the hallway on the other side of the waiting room. I get a good grip on her and her Gentle Leader and walk her straight through the waiting room without pausing to look around. It works real well. As I'm walking her through she is always walking on the side of me that is away from the other dogs. It takes me about 5 seconds to get her through the waiting room and there haven't been any incedence in several years.



> And the reason we went to the vet was to get her spayed. The vet said she wants her to gain 6lbs in a week to do the surgery. Is there a way to do this safely? She is underweight, always has been. 3 weeks ago she weighed 78.8 lbs and today she weighed 74.4.


How long has she been on raw and why is she loosing weight? 6lbs in a week sounds like adding weight too quickly. I personally don't think that is healthy.



> I have been feeding 2ish lbs of raw a day, but mostly chicken.


2lbs a day is bout 2 chicken quarters. Feeding her 3 or 4 quarters shouldn't be out of the question. I would also add in some pork and occasionally beef.



> I asked her about satin balls, she recommended doing the hamburger, oatmeal, and wheat germ, but said no mollasses.


I've never liked satin balls because they have inappropriate ingredients and they force a dog to gain too quickly. They often cause digestive upset. If the vet wants her to gain 6 lbs before spay, I would just wait a few weeks before spaying her. A few more weeks shouldn't matter. Or even a few more months.


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## ZillasMa (May 11, 2009)

Thanks RFD! This incident at the vet was a first, she can be testy around other dogs but never around people. But she has always been easier to handle when I am out of sight. The vet said she was food provider protecting. 

But my main problem right now is the way she has been around the other dogs at home. I have been trying to see the whole picture, if Godzilla is actually doing something to cause her to react the way she is....but I am just not seeing it. She herds and corrects the puppy, which the vet said is normal, but it is Zilla that she has this new problem with. I have been doing the NILIF, but I have read a couple different methods and am kinda confused. I have a crate, but have been keeping her in the office when I am not home, rather than free roam of the house. Make her walk behind me at all times, in/out the door after me, eats after following commands first. Voice praise only (that is the hardest for me) But if I keep all the dogs together where ever I am, within 1-3 hours they get in a fight.


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

ZillasMa said:


> The vet said she was food provider protecting.


Vets aren't trainers and usually know very little about training or behavior. Without actually seeing your dog in action, it sounds to me more like leash aggression. Of course I may change my mind if I saw her.

How old is Godzilla? How long have the two dogs lived together? Did this behavior begin after the she was bred? Did they get along well before?

As far as the NILIF goes, that will change her relationship with you for the better but it won't affect her relationship with Godzilla. Do they fight if you are not around? Are all the pups gone? Any children in the house? Will they fight both inside and outside? Where do they sleep?

Tell me about the other dogs at home? Do they live there or are they visitors? If they live there, discuss the relationship between all the dogs. If they don't live there, don't allow any other dogs in the house until this problem is fixed. Visiting dogs only complicate the situation.

There ... that was a lot of help wasn't it? LOL Hopefully I can tell you more after these questions are answered.


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## ZillasMa (May 11, 2009)

RawFedDogs said:


> How old is Godzilla? How long have the two dogs lived together? Did this behavior begin after the she was bred? Did they get along well before?


Godzilla is 4, Sushi is 2. I got Sushi when she was 6/7 weeks, she got parvo at 9/10 weeks. It started with food aggression when she went into heat, tapered off, then she started herding him away from visitors when pups were finding homes, just within the last week the fighting has started. We kept one pup, who is 12 weeks old now. She herds the pup, and will put her mouth on her, but doesn't act aggressive with her at all. They got along fine before....she has always been the jealous one, but not reacted badly, just that look at me...pet me...anytime I am paying attention to Godzilla. 



RawFedDogs said:


> As far as the NILIF goes, that will change her relationship with you for the better but it won't affect her relationship with Godzilla.


That's what I thought. 



RawFedDogs said:


> Do they fight if you are not around? Are all the pups gone? Any children in the house? Will they fight both inside and outside? Where do they sleep?


I don't think so, but I am not around! :smile: Normally I am in the same room with them, but when I am not they are fine. Sushi doesn't like it when I pay attention to the others, but I still do. She will try to put herself in between me and the others. Sometimes I will pet her also, but since this has started I have sent her away when she does this. The pups are all gone, except for the one we kept. 2 kids, 7 and 11. Altercations are mostly inside, no altercations outside since the food incident at the beginning. But I have the yard spit in two sections, and they will fence fight (run back and forth on the fence line and bark at each other) They normally all sleep in my room. I have a mattress on the floor, and a big doggie pillow for them, and pup is on dog pillow in her crate in my room. Have been keeping Sushi in separate bedroom the last few days.



RawFedDogs said:


> Tell me about the other dogs at home? Do they live there or are they visitors? If they live there, discuss the relationship between all the dogs. If they don't live there, don't allow any other dogs in the house until this problem is fixed. Visiting dogs only complicate the situation.


Godzilla is well behaved, he plays with her and sniffs her butt. He doesn't really play with the puppy, but the pup sure tries to get his attention. 
Blitzen, the puppy, is in the x-pen while I am at work. Not sure what else to explain about her. They have all been here since pups. We don't have visiting dogs ever, but we do have visiting kids. 

Hope I answered everything

I really appreciate your help!


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

ZillasMa said:


> Hope I answered everything


You did but nothing really jumped out at me. I think the fence fighting and leash aggression are two symptoms of the same problem. It is a fear based aggression having to do with being trapped and having no escape route.

As for what to do about your problem, the only thing that I can suggest at this point is a book called Feisty Fido by Dr. Patricial McConnell. It should be able to give you some pointers on how best to handle your situation.

Sorry I don't have any magic answers for you.


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## ZillasMa (May 11, 2009)

Its okay.....she needs to be spayed anyway....maybe that will help. Being strict with her can't hurt. I am going to keep her away from Zilla for the most part, maybe I will give them 30 min to an hour alone together a day, maybe in the crate, or in the living room without me....It just amazes me that these problems started after she was bred, and that I can't pinpoint what caused the change.

Thanks for your input

I will keep it food chat from now on! :biggrin:


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

We have a training section and you used it for the purpose it was intended. :smile: Ask training and/or behavior questions anytime you wish ... they may or may not get answered. LOL


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## Doc (Jan 17, 2009)

Nugene sayz dats why day call em a bitch.


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## ZillasMa (May 11, 2009)

Update..... Sushi is doing much better. I have just changed the way I do a few things. When the dogs are outside together I stay there hanging out in the yard with them. Sushi likes to play fetch with a basketball, and Zilla does his own thing. Mostly sniffin and peein :smile: When we are inside, I no longer will shut the door of whatever room we are in. Not sure why, but that has made the biggest difference. I think she has just become more playful, and Zilla just isn't interested in her games. She plays with the pup constantly.....she is so loud. She doesn't hurt Blitzen, but I have seen her put her head in her mouth....if I tell her to cut it out and she backs off, Blitzen is right there nipping at her lips, and they go back to playing. Sound normal?
I give each dog alone time with me.


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## deepalisnis (May 24, 2009)

Dog Dominance Behavior, we explain various forms of dog instinctive behaviors, such as aggression dog dominance and possessive dog behaviors, and what to do about them. All such bad dog behaviors relate to each other and to dog pack instincts the inborn drive for dog dominance and high position in the pack. Dog food aggression and dog possessiveness of a bone or favorite toy are among the most common expressions of dominance aggression in dogs, of the dog's quest for control.


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## deepalisnis (May 24, 2009)

I really appreciate your help!!!The same holds true for behavior. If you ate fast food and candy bars everyday, eventually it will affect energy level and mood.We all know the dangers of eating junk food or living on a diet of foods that are processed. We know about them and most of us make a point to avoid them. We also make sure that our children avoid them. This is often because hyperactivity and an array of behavioral problems have been closely linked with the diets of sufferers.


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## ZillasMa (May 11, 2009)

> I really appreciate your help!!!The same holds true for behavior. If you ate fast food and candy bars everyday, eventually it will affect energy level and mood.We all know the dangers of eating junk food or living on a diet of foods that are processed. We know about them and most of us make a point to avoid them. We also make sure that our children avoid them. This is often because hyperactivity and an array of behavioral problems have been closely linked with the diets of sufferers.


WTH?


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## claybuster (Dec 18, 2008)

ZillasMa, what are you feeding your dogs....standard commercial kibble?
May seem like an odd question, but I am a believer many problems including certain aggressive behaviors stem from a problem with commercial nutrition in itself.


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## claybuster (Dec 18, 2008)

oopps, sorry, nevermind! I just re-read your last sentence about what you feed...sorry.


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