# Should I be adding to raw diet?



## wolfsnaps88 (Jan 2, 2012)

So my cat and dog have been getting chicken meat, chicken bones, a little fat, liver and some venison in portioned sizes based on their weight. I have cut down treats to...nothing actually except a rare dehydrated lung piece here and there (and nothing for the cat right now). It hasn't been long enough to really notice much difference (except stool excellence). Should I be adding anything? Oils, yogurt, what? 

In a few months, I intend to have their bloodwork checked just to make sure I am not depriving them of anything nutritionally. 


Thanks everyone!


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

How long have them been on the raw diet, If your already feeding venison and liver you should have been on it for months already as liver is the last part to add to the diet but I don't see any fish, beef heart pork or turkey?


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

I would get through more proteins like pork, fish, duck, beef, before adding anything else. Fish oil would be something a lot here add. Yogurt is unnecessary. Eggs later would be nice.


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## MissusMac (Jan 6, 2011)

As pp suggested, add in fish and other kinds of meat for variety. I also feed whole, raw eggs a few times a week as well as add in green tripe to meals when I can. I feed fish oil caps as treats because oily fish is so expensive to buy here.


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## wolfsnaps88 (Jan 2, 2012)

I don't see why adding liver should be after months of feeding raw if the dog can digest it ok. My dog has an iron gut. It isn't that I don't want to feed every protein (as he has had lamb, pork, beef, and HATES fish) its that I can't afford all of that at this time. What is wrong with chicken and venison for right now? When I run out of these proteins, I will get him something else to mix it up. 

In fact, I do intend to give him rabbit soon.

I am more concerned that he is being fed a nutritionally sound diet. The way I look at it, if he was a wild animal, he would not be getting mulititudes of different protein sources. He would probably get rabbits and rodents. and yes, i know, he would not have access to yogurt or coconut oil or anything like that if he was wild. But since he isn't eating a whole animal a day, I am thinking maybe he is missing something? Fiber? certain vitamins? I really do believe in the raw diet, I just don't want to do it incorrectly.


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## wolfsnaps88 (Jan 2, 2012)

Oh, and I WISH he would eat eggs. He would only eat an egg if I cooked it for him. I have tried giving him raw eggs and shells in different ways (yolk only, white only, mixed together) and he isn't having it. I don't want to cook him eggs. I mean, I COULD if it was something he really needed, but I don't think it is.


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## MissusMac (Jan 6, 2011)

I think you're fine adding in more liver if he can handle it. Waiting so long to add in liver to my dog's diet didn't work well for him, he needed the vitamins because he was alarmingly lethargic. 

You are feeding a lot of lean meat, so I would definitely add in some beef heart if you can find it. Our grocery store (HEB) has started selling beef heart for pretty cheap.

So, no, I don't think you're feeding a balanced diet right now. He can live off of chicken and venison, but you need to add in other things, too. Coconut oil is not one of them, though.

Go out to eat one time less per month and you'll save the money to be able to afford other kinds of meat and round out his diet.


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## wolfsnaps88 (Jan 2, 2012)

Assuming I go out to eat. Bahah. 

So what everyone here is saying is that one or two protein sources for a dog are not enough?


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

I started organs on my dogs the second day on PMR. My dogs just don't have the problems alot of dogs do, and one dog has such bad constipation I had to start her on liver or she would never poop.

I think it's a good idea to give as much protein variety as possible. Since most meat is farmed in one way or another, it's not like they were eating wild prey which is feeding on what it is supposed to eat all the time. It's just better to do a variety, I think.

i would add beef heart especially. It's a cheaper cut of red meat that is very rich in alot of stuff. It's a staple for my dogs. 

If you are not feeding fish with omega three oils in them, you should add a good salmon oil. Other than that, I think you are doing ok.

oh, and I still supplement my larger dog with glucosamine even though I feed him alot of chicken and rabbit heads and chicken feet.


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## MissusMac (Jan 6, 2011)

You're right, I shouldn't assume that you spend money frivolously.

At least add in some beef heart. I fed only chicken and venison for a couple of months and Miko lost almost 10 lbs. I added in beef heart, pork, green tripe, and egg and he's gained 5 lbs back in a month.


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## wolfsnaps88 (Jan 2, 2012)

I just called a meat place and ordered chicken backs and inquired about beef heart. Sarge has had deer heart so it mustn't be too different. They will call me back on that. Do you feed heart as the muscle part of the portion or mix it with muscle? Like....60% muscle meat, 20% heart muscle, bone and organ or do you give 80% heart muscle?


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## MissusMac (Jan 6, 2011)

Heart is a muscle so I just add it into the 80% muscle meat. I'd say it makes up about 20% of his muscle meat per day. I cut it up into big cubes (about 2 1/2" x 2 1/2") and put a couple of cubes into each of his meals.


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

Variety is key in a good sound raw diet, fat and omega's are part of that variety...If the meat were truly wild we wouldn't need to supplement with fish or oils..Beef heart is an essential nutrient to the diet, it can be found by asking at most grocery stores in the meat dept. you may have to buy a case but it is well worth it.


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## Mondo (Dec 20, 2011)

If I feed heart it is usually all of the boneless portion of their meal. But I will mix it if only partial portions of the old meat or new meat are defrosted. My boys transitioned to liver very easily and I did it way earlier than recommended. All dogs are different. Mileages vary.


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

Yup, heart is a GREAT way to get more boneless into the rotation!!:thumb:

Beef, pork and turkey are the ones that are closest to affordable here....mine LOVE pork and turkey(they liked beef ok...but we havent gotten it for a while.) Any kind of heart you can get will help add to your muscle meat needs and will more then likely be cheaper then other boneless cuts!!:thumb:

As Robin said variety is key....mine, over 2 weeks, are fed meat, organs, and/or bones from of chicken, turkey, beef, pork, lamb(when I can get it), calf(when I can get it,) fish, and what ever else I can get.

And as Liz said, fish oil to add in the O3s if you arent able to feed all grass fed/finished meats, but no need for anything else.

But your guys havent been on PMR for very long....everything will even out. 

Hell, a diet of "just" chicken with some red meat heart and organs is hella better then any processed foods!!


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## wolfsnaps88 (Jan 2, 2012)

But see, this is what I don't get. Everyone is saying that just chicken with a little bit of red meat is not ok. 

Sure, variety is ideal but surely just chicken with a bit of red meat is fine and balanced. At least, all the raw reading I have done would suggest this. As long as you generally stay within the ratios of 80/10/10 ...

While I agree variety is the best, I don't see anything wrong with a mainly chicken diet. 

I plan on breeding meat rabbits so when that time comes, they will get rabbit too. Deer during season, and whatever I add to it from the grocery store. But my dog's main protein is going to be chicken. 

I have never heard of anyone saying this before so I am a little surprised.


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

wolfsnaps88 said:


> But see, this is what I don't get. Everyone is saying that just chicken with a little bit of red meat is not ok.
> 
> Sure, variety is ideal but surely just chicken with a bit of red meat is fine and balanced. At least, all the raw reading I have done would suggest this. As long as you generally stay within the ratios of 80/10/10 ...
> 
> ...


We have all said it quite a few times actually.

When there have been people who said "I dont have the money to buy a bunch of proteins." or "I cant find a bunch of proteins." Many of us tell them to "Chill out"(in a NICE way) and to remember that variety will happen over time, just as will the percentage!!:wink:


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

The thing about chicken is it's white meat. Red meat is going to be the best for your dog. If all you can afford is chicken and a little red meat, that's superior to dry dog food if you make sure they are getting the omega three oils and glucosamine they need, but alot of variety in proteins will always be best.

I don't feed a whole bunch of different proteins all at once - I might feed chicken and goat one week, turkey and pork the next. But there is always some beef every week, for a rich red meat.

Aiming for balance over time means they do get more than chicken eventually.


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## GoingPostal (Sep 5, 2011)

The whole idea behind a raw diet is we don't know exactly what dogs need, so you feed as much variety as possible. Feeding mostly chicken, especially if it's grocery store stuff seems like it would be really defeating the purpose. Every protein is different, with different levels of minerals, vitamins, fats, aminos, etc. I guess I would not feel comfortable feeding such a limited diet to my animals. I try to feed as much variety and different parts of the meat as possible.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

I also feed as many organs as possible. Those things have all kinds of good stuff in them.

But, we also have to keep in mind our budget. I have recently gone from plenty of money to not so much. My dogs are getting more chicken now, and turkey necks, and instead of beef ribs Snorkels is getting turkey neck and chicken heads.

I haven't bought pork ribs in awhile because I'm waiting for a good sale. Etc. etc. i need to start actively looking for a co-op and going on craigslist to get some meat, as I can't keep spending the money I used to on them.


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

GoingPostal said:


> The whole idea behind a raw diet is we don't know exactly what dogs need, so you feed as much variety as possible. Feeding mostly chicken, especially if it's grocery store stuff seems like it would be really defeating the purpose. Every protein is different, with different levels of minerals, vitamins, fats, aminos, etc. I guess I would not feel comfortable feeding such a limited diet to my animals. I try to feed as much variety and different parts of the meat as possible.


This is TOTALLY true....but if it were to come down to my dogs either eating chicken, some pork heart and what ever organs I could get my hands on OR eating kibble/canned.....well I would be feeding the mostly chicken raw diet in a millisecond!:wink:


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## Mondo (Dec 20, 2011)

Scarlett_O' said:


> This is TOTALLY true....but if it were to come down to my dogs either eating chicken, some pork heart and what ever organs I could get my hands on OR eating kibble/canned.....well I would be feeding the mostly chicken raw diet in a millisecond!:wink:


Yes. This. We worry about balance, kibble claims to be balanced. But most of us have become aware of just how unbalanced processed kibble is, even high quality kibble. Yes, nutritionally it might be "balanced", but in terms of what our dogs need, it is as balanced as fortified cereals are for humans.


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

We are a single income family and I feed 9 pounds or more per day. I try to keep everything one dollar or less per pound, we just can't afford more. My dogs get a lot of chicken and I am blessed to be able to get a good amount of lamb lung and trachea. We feed turkey, pork and some beef heart for red meat, turkey necks and through our co-op I get incredible sardines. The sardine are my highest priced item. They only get sardines every other week and love them. I do what I can and they are still eating better than on any kibble. I do try for three to four different proteins - chicken, lamb, turkey, pork (fish ocassionally). Chicken is the staple.


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## Imgliniel (Sep 1, 2011)

If you are having trouble affording more red meat a good way to get some extra variety is to just throw in 1 something else meal a week. Whatever you can grab on sale.

So if you feed mainly chicken with some venison, grab a pork roast on sale, or beef ribs, or whatever the meat departement has marked down that week and give them that for one meal. Repeat next week. Over time you will get a nice variety. 

Think of it this way, a pack of wolves in "forest A" May take down mainly deer, but every so often the individuals are going to catch a rabbit, or a gopher, or a wounded bird, or what have you. So mainly two protiens I wouldn't stress to much over. As long as you throw in other things once in awhile when you can grab them.


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## Maxy24 (Mar 5, 2011)

The only organ you are feeding is liver. I know when I fed my cat raw 5% of the diet had to be liver but 5% had to be another secreting organ, like kidney, in order for the diet to be balanced. I have assumed it's the same for dogs, no?


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## wolfsnaps88 (Jan 2, 2012)

I have a gall bladder. Should I start feeding that? Not sure where to get kidneys at this time. Will have to ask my meat place.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

wolfsnaps88 said:


> I have a gall bladder. Should I start feeding that? Not sure where to get kidneys at this time. Will have to ask my meat place.


I have found kidney at regular grocery stores - here one day, gone the next (mainly because I buy them out when I find it). It's not something that's available all the time, but if you keep an eye out you should probably be able to get some eventually.


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## sandra0606 (Dec 22, 2011)

Why don't you give different kind of food to your dog? Also giving treats once in a while wont harm your cat and dog's health. After all, even they deserve something delicious sometimes. Also,try bison, chicken, beef for your dog.


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## wolfsnaps88 (Jan 2, 2012)

I just picked up a 40 lbs. box of chicken backs at my meat place, ordered beef hearts and requested that they check to see if they can get turkey necks and chicken feet. I also had a reply from craigslist on some ground venison. I will have to see if its reasonable distance and I will go get it. Woohoo.


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