# Primal



## tem_sat (Jun 20, 2010)

This confuses me greatly. No, I would not feed Primal, however, there has been mention of some who were looking for commercially prepared raw.

Here is the issue (I will use the chicken forumla and chicken grind in my example):

*Canine Chicken Formula* 
Ingredients: Chicken, Chicken Necks, Ground Chicken Bones, Chicken Hearts, Organic Kale, Organic Carrots, Organic Yams, Chicken Livers, Organic Broccoli, Organic Apples, Organic Ground Flaxseed, Cranberries, Organic Apple Cider Vinegar, Organic Parsley, Organic Coconut Oil, Organic Kelp, Alfalfa, Mixed Tocopherols (source of vitamin E).

Canine Chicken Formula Benefits: Fresh chicken for superior levels of amino and essential fatty acids. 
Finely ground, fresh chicken bones for optimum levels of calcium. 
Organic produce for food-derived vitamins A, B-complex, C and D. 
Organic flaxseed for essential omega-3 fatty acids. 
Organic and unrefined nutritional supplements for digestion and circulation. 
Vitamin E as an antioxidant. 
Organic coconut oil for linolenic fatty acids. 


Guaranteed Analysis: 
Crude Protein (min) 13% 
Crude Fat (min) 7% 
Crude Fiber (max) 1% 
Moisture (max) 72% 

Additional Product Information: 
Chicken 72% Organic Ingredients 33% 
Produce 26% Organ Meat 9% 
Supplements 2% Bone Content ≅ 10% 
CA-to-P ratio 1.51:1 

*{Complete Diet} Ground Meat & Bone
Organic Produce
Supplements* 

Note that this is considered a "Complete Diet"

Now we comapre that to the Chicken Grind:

*Chicken Grind* 
Ingredients: Chicken Neck, Chicken Frames, Chicken Heart, Chicken Liver.

Chicken Grind Benefits: Fresh chicken for superior levels of amino and essential fatty acids. 
Finely ground, fresh chicken bones for optimum levels of calcium. 

Guaranteed Analysis: 
Crude Protein (min) 14% 
Crude Fat (min) 7% 
Crude Fiber (max) 1% 
Moisture (max) 68% 

Additional Product Information: 
Chicken 100% Organic Ingredients 0% 
Produce 0% Organ Meat 11% 
Supplements 0% Bone Content ≅ 10% 
CA-to-P ratio 1.59:1 


*Supplemental Feeding for Dogs & Cats
{Not a Complete Diet} Ground Meat & Bone *

Why is the first considered "complete" and the second considered "supplemental feeding" only? Might it be lack of omega 3's?


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## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

They tell you to add your own veggies.


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## Cliffdog (Dec 30, 2010)

My understanding is that the AAFCO will not let you market anything as a "complete & balanced" food without vegetables/fruits. I have been told that they HAVE to tell you to add your own veggies/that the grind is supplemental.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

if i were making a pre made food, i would probably offer two kinds...just like primal is doing....

great marketing. 

plus, i think a lot of new people who are deciding to come off kibble might not think about prey model....they might think dogs need fruits and veggies for their vitamins and supps...

in the beginning, when i came off of home cooking....i was a little unsure about just protein. bone. organ as a complete meal. it took a while to get comfortable with it and a little longer to actually believe it.


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## tem_sat (Jun 20, 2010)

Cliffdog said:


> My understanding is that the AAFCO will not let you market anything as a "complete & balanced" food without vegetables/fruits. I have been told that they HAVE to tell you to add your own veggies/that the grind is supplemental.


That I did not know! Thank you for that information. I wonder what on earth their scientific basis is to substantiate that requirement, but whatever, it's fine.


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## Cliffdog (Dec 30, 2010)

Well the AAFCO is largely run by large pet food companies, from my understanding of things, so it suits them for people to think all the unnecessary fruits, veggies, and grains are a positive addition.


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

I've never heard that they have to tell you to add veggies, but rather that is a ploy to not be responsible for anything. 
Even with the meat, bone, organ grinds, you still really don't know how much of what is in there. For that reason, I wouldn't feed it exclusively, but I have offered them supplementally for variety.


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## Cliffdog (Dec 30, 2010)

That is true, I'm not certain that the "complete and balanced" AAFCO regulation is accurate, just a theory which I have been told and which sounded highly plausible to me. The primal looks good to me; it claims to be 10% bone, 11% organ. But I just can't imagine paying it. If you REALLY wanted a grind like that, you could just buy your own grinder and save over time. But I don't see the point in grinding bone unless you have a dog with a certain condition because one of the benefits of raw is clean teeth; ground does the very opposite that I have seen. Being from a Greyhound family I have definitely looked into a lot of rotten mouths on ground-meat fed dogs. (Although I have ground organ with boneless meat before myself because Bonnie is not an organ-lover.)


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

i ran out of fish and fed them the sardines....course i had to call primal in california and make them promise me that it was just sardines and that was all...

i don't know if they were telling the truth, but i felt better and the dogs loved it. 

i keep that around for when i can't get to my fish store.


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## Cliffdog (Dec 30, 2010)

I didn't know they sold sardines... I might have to keep that option open when it gets too cold for us to fish.


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## monkeys23 (Dec 8, 2010)

My dogs HATED the Sardine Grind. Just throwing that out there.


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

My dogs like the sardine grind, but my dogs also like fish in general and get it daily as part of their meal. 
The only one I use regularly is the Buffalo one, because it's the only one I find worth it for me for variety, since all the other proteins I already have incorporated in one way or another. 
Oh how I'd love a source of "real" buffalo! lol.


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## tem_sat (Jun 20, 2010)

PuppyPaws said:


> My dogs like the sardine grind, but my dogs also like fish in general and get it daily as part of their meal.
> The only one I use regularly is the Buffalo one, because it's the only one I find worth it for me for variety, since all the other proteins I already have incorporated in one way or another.
> Oh how I'd love a source of "real" buffalo! lol.


You can get buffalo at Whole Foods, however, it's mighty pricey.


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

tem_sat said:


> You can get buffalo at Whole Foods, however, it's mighty pricey.


The nearest one is a little over an hour away. I don't know how much I could afford to incorporate with the number of dogs I have... but it would for sure be worth checking into! Thanks!


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

i think that's part of the draw of grinds.....

i could get buffalo....whereas even ground buffalo is almost ten dollars a pound and i have no source....

i just don't know what's in it....what the ratios are....and being a control freak...i want to touch the meat and know where it comes from....


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## swolek (Mar 31, 2011)

PuppyPaws said:


> My dogs like the sardine grind, but my dogs also like fish in general and get it daily as part of their meal.


Same here. All of our dogs (fosters included) enjoyed the Primal grind but they also will all eat fresh, whole sardines (and other fish).

I sometimes buy pre-made mutton grinds because I can't get mutton around here. I can technically get human-grade buffalo but it's too expensive to feed.


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## monkeys23 (Dec 8, 2010)

Yeah they are kinda meh about fish like that. They like tuna and I'm pretty sure a hunk of salmon steak would go over well... it might well have been the whole part of the sardine grind aka stinky fish guts. I know if I gave them whole fish they'd just roll in it....

I considered getting some buffalo, but I also prefer to be able to touch the whole meat and know where it came from over the grinds!


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## Chocx2 (Nov 16, 2009)

I started out on Primal, they have grinds and mixes, grinds are muscle meat, organ, bone. Mixes have the veggies...I don't feed that anymore, my dogs get the chunk of meat now, I guess I graduated from feeding food made by a company. However my co-op does grind up tripe and I think its face meat from the cows that I buy. I was thinking of buying a whole case not ground anyone done that before ?


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

monkeys23 said:


> My dogs HATED the Sardine Grind. Just throwing that out there.


My dogs didn't like it either, I just gave it to Abi, her cats and dogs love it!


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

Chocx2 said:


> I started out on Primal, they have grinds and mixes, grinds are muscle meat, organ, bone. Mixes have the veggies...I don't feed that anymore, my dogs get the chunk of meat now, I guess I graduated from feeding food made by a company. However my co-op does grind up tripe and I think its face meat from the cows that I buy. I was thinking of buying a whole case not ground anyone done that before ?


What is your question? Tripe is the stomach lining of the cow now way around that! 98% of dogs absolutely love it, but we have a few here who don't! My dogs do happy dances for it every couple days for it and I and another member swear by its benefits. Definitely worth getting, not sure you'd want to get it unground though.


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

whiteleo said:


> My dogs didn't like it either, I just gave it to Abi, her cats and dogs love it!


YES they do!!! And thank you SOOOOO much for that!!!:biggrin: My girls where knocking each other over to get to the plate when I only had one down this morning with it on it!LOL


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## frogdog (Aug 10, 2011)

I'm new on here and haven't made the transition yet but in a month or less. Just for anyone's info, I found the following regarding Primal raw chicken necks....



Chicken Necks at Only Natural Pet Store


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

WOW...that is SOOO freaking expensive!!LOL:lol:

I get my chicken necks for 0.37/lbs!:thumb:


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## frogdog (Aug 10, 2011)

Scarlett_O' said:


> WOW...that is SOOO freaking expensive!!LOL:lol:
> 
> I get my chicken necks for 0.37/lbs!:thumb:


Dayum Girl...excuse me, lol! I need to find some at that price, LAWDY! I actually haven't looked at pricing here but will be venturing out.


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

frogdog said:


> Dayum Girl...excuse me, lol! I need to find some at that price, LAWDY! I actually haven't looked at pricing here but will be venturing out.


There is a whole sale place here who gets chicken necks in bulk and sells them at that price!:biggrin: I still have like 30lbs from my purchase in June!LOL (They they are a HUGE hit in my house with the dogs and cats alike!:thumb


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## frogdog (Aug 10, 2011)

Scarlett_O' said:


> There is a whole sale place here who gets chicken necks in bulk and sells them at that price!:biggrin: I still have like 30lbs from my purchase in June!LOL (They they are a HUGE hit in my house with the dogs and cats alike!:thumb


You might need to become a supplier...we'll just send you the money)


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