# feeling so confused!



## RCTRIPLEFRESH5

it seems even reputable breeders are lying scammers. We were considering irish setters, and so we looked at the irish setter club of america site for breeders. We called one that looked decent, and the woman gave us attitude when we asked about the pedigree etc....although once i told her to simmer down , she was nice and answered our questions. She told me to email her if i had other questions...
so i called another reccomended breeder from the irish setter club of America ...this guy;s name is john j frisby....and what a scamming sob he is. I called him and asked him about the healthchecks and he didnt answer, so i asked again, and he said ''yeah they're fine, and i said what aboutt he aprents? and he said yeah they're fine. he told us he was at work, and he called us 5 hours later(now). We said we wanted to recap that the OFA was fine, and he flipped out on us. he said ''what does it matter if the ofa is fine?'' why do u keep asking how the parents are? For a pet quality dog it doesnt matter.(funny since he told us before he only breeds champion dogs)
it infuriates me this guy is on irish setter club of america...
and what's worse, is that the first breeder i called(the woman at the beginning of this post) says she breeds w9th him, and he is very nice.

even the so called reputable breeders are trying to eff us over....if i want health clearances for a 2000 dollar puppy..u provide them.


the doberman breeders seeem very nice though. only concern i have with them is VWD. According to the breeder some of her pups are affected or carriers of this disease. she claims it is not a problem disease though. should i trust her on this???

but yeah MULLINAHONE
JOHN J FRISBY 

is to be avoided. idk if im breaking forum rules by posting his name, but iwant this post to come up on google for when people search for him.

obviously shane didnt have the best line, since he got cancer at 8, so we are doing everything we can to ensure our next pup has the best lines.


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## whiteleo

You really need to calm down! Finding a dog is not gonna happen overnite, it could takes months. Personally if you don't want health problems you are probably better off to adopt a mutt, LMO


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5

whiteleo said:


> You really need to calm down! Finding a dog is not gonna happen overnite, it could takes months. Personally if you don't want health problems you are probably better off to adopt a mutt, LMO


not interested in a mutt. i know there will be health problems, but i want to take every precaution i can. doing proper clearances of parents can greatly minimize the chance of the offspring having several issues.

and if they get the issues it will happen at 13 not 3.


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> not interested in a mutt. i know there will be health problems, but i want to take every precaution i can. doing proper clearances of parents can greatly minimize the chance of the offspring having several issues.
> 
> and if they get the issues it will happen at 13 not 3.


i also understand that finding a new pup is going to be more than days affair lol, but a lot of the reputable breeders only do 1-2 litters per year, so when you find out they have brand new pups, you tend to get a little excited.

im very pleased with the attitudes of the doberman breeders, just not sure if what she was saying about VWD is true.

but yeah this breeder was beyond rude, my dad is not going to pay 2 grand to someone who treats us like that!


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## whiteleo

Just take your time then, and only talk to breeders that are close enough to you that you can actually meet the parents of litters to. This was the only way I would buy my first B.T., even though they aren't that common around here I had to wait for a semi local litter so I could meet the parents. Now, that I belong to the Local B.T. club I have many resources for a puppy that I didn't have access to before.


That might be an option for you is if you know the breed of dog you want, join your local club and that will open up many doors for you!


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5

whiteleo said:


> Just take your time then, and only talk to breeders that are close enough to you that you can actually meet the parents of litters to. This was the only way I would buy my first B.T., even though they aren't that common around here I had to wait for a semi local litter so I could meet the parents. Now, that I belong to the Local B.T. club I have many resources for a puppy that I didn't have access to before.
> 
> 
> That might be an option for you is if you know the breed of dog you want, join your local club and that will open up many doors for you!


well the reason i am so angry, is that the breeders i found were all reccomended by the Irish setter club of america. they were all within 2 hours of us also, so we would have driven to meet the parents. john claimed he ahd the parents....but come on.....yelling at me for asking about the parent's health and history...and asking for pedigrees, and proof of champion lines, and OFA tests? I dont think so pal.

we are meeting the woman with the dobie puppies on thursday which will be exciting


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## Scarlett_O'

Im sorry that you are hitting road blocks.

One thing I can say with looking for a puppy(French Bulldog) for my Mum twice and for my self(Border Collie.) Is that I have found it MUCH easier to have a somewhat generalized email and send that to the few breeders that you like, asking all the same questions(health, temperament, why they breed, etc) of course changing it up as needed(ya know, one you might be asking about a current litter, the other you might be asking about their upcoming litter, and yet another you might be asking if they plan on having a litter.)

I have found that after that initial couple emails back and forth it is MUCH easier to then call and talk(or go and see) the breeders that I have narrowed it down to...as I already know their philosophy, and can normally read into and be ready for their attitude towards different questions(ie. if one hasnt answered my emails about something I know Im going to need to make my self push a little harder and GET THAT QUESTION ANSWERED!)

Just an idea!:smile: But that is how I have preferred to first contact the breeders, and it also allows me to know that Im not calling them while they are busy, as most people will just email when they have the time, or if I dont like their answer I just write back "thank you but Im no longer looking for a puppy" rather then being stuck on the phone with them!:wink:


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## Scarlett_O'

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> well the reason i am so angry, is that the breeders i found were all reccomended by the Irish setter club of america. they were all within 2 hours of us also, so we would have driven to meet the parents. john claimed he ahd the parents....but come on.....yelling at me for asking about the parent's health and history...and asking for pedigrees, and proof of champion lines, and OFA tests? I dont think so pal.
> 
> we are meeting the woman with the dobie puppies on thursday which will be exciting


Believe me, just because they are listed on the breed's parent club's web site does NOT make them a good breeder!! My aunt is listed on her breed's parent's club site along with the AKC's site as being a great breeder....she is FAR from it!!!!


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5

Scarlett_O' said:


> Believe me, just because they are listed on the breed's parent club's web site does NOT make them a good breeder!! My aunt is listed on her breed's parent's club site along with the AKC's site as being a great breeder....she is FAR from it!!!!


hahahaah!!!!!!


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## CorgiPaws

RC:
You will find that MOST breeders suck. They just do. But there are wonderful breeders out there, you just have to search for them. There are so many different standards that are subject to everyone's interpretation and opinions on them. What one might consider a good breeder, another may not. What you need to know is that the odds of you finding a breeder and agreeing 100% with ALL of their practices and ethics are slim to none. I have networked with a few breeders that I would (and have) buy pups with, but I can find something "wrong" with any breeder I've ever met. It's how it goes. 

You must first educate yourself. Come up with a list of things you MUST have, a list of things you want, but can compromise on, and a list of things that really just don't matter to you. Then, begin your search. Getting a puppy from an ethical breeder can be a multi-year process. Then actually getting a dog from that breeder can take the same amount of time. Be prepared for it to take TIME. And impatience is no excuse for supporting an unethical breeder or puppy mill or pet shop. 

You may find that the breeders endorsed by the parent club aren't your cup of tea, but it is a good place to start. You can also look for smaller breeders that carry those breeder's lines. 
Before you can get upset by a breeder's stance on health testing, and what they do with the results, you must first educate yourself. No, it is NOT alarming that a breeder would breed a carrier of VWD. A carrier to a clear will only produce carriers, but NO affected dogs. In some breeds, to eliminate all carriers, would devastatingly narrow the gene pool. It's not realistic. Some breeders will not breed carriers, only clears. You need to research and come to your own conclusion on it, and find a breeder whose ideals match yours. It sounds like you have a bit more research on your part to take care of before even talking to breeders about that yet. 

Broaden your search. While it's true that classifieds and puppy advertisement websites are FULL of unethical BYBs weeding through them can sometimes reveal some pretty neat breeders. I've seen plenty of CH sired litters on sites like puppyfind. I myself have bought a dog advertised on such sites, with a CH grandsire, fully health tested parents, and who met my standards ALMOST perfectly. It can be done. And before anyone jumps all over me, I am not promoting such sites, just saying that not all breeders on there are horrid. 

And lastly, YOU ought not to be telling breeders to "cool it" at all. YOU are buying their puppies, they are not working for you. If you are anything shy of respectful, you can forget about any breeder helping you out. While some breeders are downright jerks, you've got to let it roll off your back. If someone called me about puppies and came across nearly as hot headed as you are, I would not only refuse sale, but notify other breeders with whom I network as well. Breeders TALK, you bet they do, and no one who cares about their pups wants them going to someone impatient and hot headed. Whether you are or not, I can not say, but it's certainly how you're presenting yourself here. So, before you call anymore breeders, take a deep breath, and chill out. Remember that buying a puppy from an ethical breeder should be the start of a friendly relationship for at least the lifetime of that dog. You want to buy from someone you not only trust, but know you can count on, and wouldn't mind talking to. I am required to send monthly updates at least, by contract, on the last puppy I bought. I can't imagine calling someone I hated once a month! 

Emailing breeders can be a good way to start, but a lot of breeders won't discuss much without just talking on the phone, because their time is limited, and a lot of people who aren't really serious about getting a puppy will send mass emails, so they limit their effort to the serious inquiries. 

You won't have a puppy tomorrow, so just try to enjoy the search. You don't want to make a poor decision due to impatience, getting a puppy is a huge commitment, as you well know. 
Setters are MUCH higher maintenance than Goldens, so I hope you're prepared for that.


*NOTE: I am not doubting what you're claiming to be true. Based on some of my experiences with various breeders, I know how rotten people can be. BUT, for YOUR sake, I suggest you remove ALL non-truths or exaggerations should there be any. Slander IS punishable by law. *


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## Liz

Exactly, if you want real recommendations you go through the local clubs and contact several of the breeders in that club. They iwll refer the better ones and you will get the gist if they think someone is less than reputable. Our collie group makes me quake - I know blacklisting by them would be horrid - there is incentive to peer pressure. When I first got into Collies this helped me from becoming lazy and really learning and researching. Take your time and try to find someone you can really enjoy talking to. If you don't like talkignt o your breeder who will beless likely to call for help or information later on. I would rather refer a potential puppy person to a friend or other breeder if I can tell we won't hit it off. I am demanding and these are my babies. You have hoops to jump through and studying to do if you want one of my babies. I probably spend at least 15 hours talking, emailing and visiting with prospective puppy people. Also, I never let a pup go home on the first visit, nop matter the age. I want the family to come visit, ask questions and mostly I want to see how they interact.Then they should go home and talk as a family and call me later. If they are not goingto be a fit I do tell them right away. Any breeder not willing to spend alot of time with you over the phone or email inititally is probably not worth your time. This is a lifetime commitment and they should have your back the whole time. My pups come back for training and pet sitting all the time. One of my 7 year old babies just spent two week in "boot camp" here with us. We adore her. Be careful and ask for references from other puppy buyers. I have a couple who are always willing to be references and others I just have to ask first. A good breeder will also have a good reputation with other breeders in the area. Anyway - that's it for my rant and rave. I hope it helps a little.


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## Scarlett_O'

Liz said:


> Exactly, if you want real recommendations you go through the local clubs and contact several of the breeders in that club. They iwll refer the better ones and you will get the gist if they think someone is less than reputable. Our collie group makes me quake - I know blacklisting by them would be horrid - there is incentive to peer pressure. When I first got into Collies this helped me from becoming lazy and really learning and researching. Take your time and try to find someone you can really enjoy talking to. If you don't like talkignt o your breeder who will beless likely to call for help or information later on. I would rather refer a potential puppy person to a friend or other breeder if I can tell we won't hit it off. I am demanding and these are my babies. You have hoops to jump through and studying to do if you want one of my babies. I probably spend at least 15 hours talking, emailing and visiting with prospective puppy people. Also, I never let a pup go home on the first visit, nop matter the age. I want the family to come visit, ask questions and mostly I want to see how they interact.Then they should go home and talk as a family and call me later. If they are not goingto be a fit I do tell them right away. Any breeder not willing to spend alot of time with you over the phone or email inititally is probably not worth your time. This is a lifetime commitment and they should have your back the whole time. My pups come back for training and pet sitting all the time. One of my 7 year old babies just spent two week in "boot camp" here with us. We adore her. Be careful and ask for references from other puppy buyers. I have a couple who are always willing to be references and others I just have to ask first. A good breeder will also have a good reputation with other breeders in the area. Anyway - that's it for my rant and rave. I hope it helps a little.


GREAT POST Liz!!
and a GREAT point that you make!:smile:
I am proud to say that I am FRIENDS with Rhett's Breeder! I have talked to her about pretty much EVERYTHING...and she me!:happy: I LOVE her...and I will be PROUD to have another one....or two...or three of her puppies!:nod:


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5

wait did i say anything illegal?
i did lie the doberman breeder's attitude...very nice woman. just not sure if VWD is as harmless a disease as she says so would lie more opinions.


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## CorgiPaws

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> wait did i say anything illegal?


No, you did not say anything illegal, as long as all of it is 100% factual.


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5

PuppyPaws said:


> No, you did not say anything illegal, as long as all of it is 100% factual.


well it's what happened, but even iif it wasn't there is no proving what happened...and people are innocent until proven guilty. how can john prove he did not say all these things? it was a phone call.

he did say them though, and i would advise people to steer clear of him.

i dont want to go to prison though lol.


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## Liz

Have you gone to any local shows. Sometimes that could be your best contact place. They don't have a lot of time to talk til after their entry shows but you can see their dogs, watch how they behave and see how the breeder interacts with her animals. If you are interested you could then at least ask for a business card or referral. Also VWD is not a harmless disease. I know that Dobermann people are doing a good job of controlling it and breeding to dogs clear of this but it can cause problems espcially if you are unaware if your dog has it or might have it.


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5

Liz said:


> Have you gone to any local shows. Sometimes that could be your best contact place. They don't have a lot of time to talk til after their entry shows but you can see their dogs, watch how they behave and see how the breeder interacts with her animals. If you are interested you could then at least ask for a business card or referral. Also VWD is not a harmless disease. I know that Dobermann people are doing a good job of controlling it and breeding to dogs clear of this but it can cause problems espcially if you are unaware if your dog has it or might have it.


yeah ihave to find dog shows in nj..i jsut dont know where to look!
also im considering adopting this dog...jsut scared of getting a giant breed who is older than a puppy...Petfinder Adoptable Dog | Great Pyrenees | Rockaway, NJ | Winston

check out the vid!


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## Liz

Go to AKC.org and they have show listings by state. Their website could be more user friendly but you get the hang of it in a few minutes.


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## Maxy24

You guys seem a bit all over the place as far as breeds go, what is it you like about Dobermans? They are very different from the other breeds you're looking at. I'll see if I can find any breeders you could take a look at though for all the breeds you've mentioned, I like to look, it's a hobby.


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5

Liz said:


> Go to AKC.org and they have show listings by state. Their website could be more user friendly but you get the hang of it in a few minutes.


im having trouble figuring out what to do lol.
i went to akc.org and was stumped from there...i figured id click the events tab? but didnt know what next...yeah i know im embarrassing lol.


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## Scarlett_O'

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> im having trouble figuring out what to do lol.
> i went to akc.org and was stumped from there...i figured id click the events tab? but didnt know what next...yeah i know im embarrassing lol.



Dont be embarrassed...like Liz said it *is* confusing!:lol:


Try here, then "search events" then click onto the states that you could/would be willing to travel to then search!:smile:
http://www.akc.org/events/search/index.cfm?action=results


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5

well my dad and i prefer different breeds as our first choices, but we also still like each breed on that list. If i could choose any dog i would get a newfy, but my dad thinks it's not the most practical dog....same with great danes(although im not as much a fan of danes as he is). A well bred doberman will have a loyalty that is hard to match, and they are very good looking dogs. Ive known some dobies in my time and they have been very gentle.

anyway, besides the VWD, the doberman breeder im talking to is awesome. although if a dog is a carrier and not affected that means they dont have the disease right?? she has carrier and affected puppies.

btw what do u guys think of the pyrenees i linked above..he is a goo option as he needs a home. Just worried about adopting a giant dog so late in their life..im not sure how old he is n, but looks over a year.


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## Unosmom

My roomate has a great pyr/golden mix and they are sweet as can be, but shed a lot, I'm almost at my wits end about all the hair, its everywhere, on my clothes, fridge, in my food, I feel like a have a hairball in the back of my throat constantly. Most of the pyrs I've seen look very matted, so its important to stay on top with their grooming. They're obviously large dogs and take up a good chunk of space.


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## Maxy24

I would definitely consider adopting the Pyr, if you like Pyrs. They are sweet with their family but are a guardian breed and can be protective of their people and property. 
I wouldn't be worried about his age, it says young, so under I'd say no more than two, but you can ask and find out more. And who cares if you skip the puppy stage, the puppy stage is awful. I'd be very happy missing that year.

Here's an Irish Setter breeder you might want to look into if they are still something you want:
http://pinray.com/5101.html

I'll look for Dobies in the morning.


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5

Maxy24 said:


> I would definitely consider adopting the Pyr, if you like Pyrs. They are sweet with their family but are a guardian breed and can be protective of their people and property.
> I wouldn't be worried about his age, it says young, so under I'd say no more than two, but you can ask and find out more. And who cares if you skip the puppy stage, the puppy stage is awful. I'd be very happy missing that year.
> 
> Here's an Irish Setter breeder you might want to look into if they are still something you want:
> http://pinray.com/5101.html
> 
> I'll look for Dobies in the morning.


that irish setter breeder is the woman in my op lool.


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## Liz

I love newfies and you must understand I have collies - we are used to alot of hair but goodness they shed tons and what really gets me is the drool - it is an entity. Lovely temperments though, sweet dogs. The Pyr sounds good. I have adopted up to about 3 years old and a well bred dog of any age is a joy to live with and train. Great Danes are so wonderful but their typically short lifespan just breaks my heart, Doberman's are also a favorite for me though a little higher energy than my guys and as I have stated I am lazy. Good luck in your quest.


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## werecatrising

As far as dobes go VWD should be one of the least of your worries. They are also prone to DCM, wobblers and liver disease. I love my boy, and will never be without a dobe, but they are not an easy breed. Have you looked around on dobermantalk.com? There is tons of good info on there.


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## DoglovingSenior

HI, First you need to slow down-do not be in a big hurry or I can almost guarantee you that you WILL make mistakes. 

First think about the things that you want to do with your dog ( in my case-though I love them I would not want any more Terriers or a Border Collie at this point-they have TOO MUCH energy for me!) Ineed a dog that is more of a couch potato . Do this without thinking of breed, since you do not seem to be very familiar with any of them. To attend an AKC or UKC show would certainly broaden your horizons-I love them, love to see the dogs show off and do what they do best. Owners are usually anxious to talk to people about their chosen breed(s) ask if you may approach their dogs-do you like the looks, feel personality of a particular breed? 

Next, look on line- take a look at the various kennels-even if they are not close by-if you are willing to pay $2000.00 for a pet quality dog -WHEW that is some investment. Do you know what a breeder (yep I have found most to be in their own little strange world)  means by pet quality? They are pretty sure that the dog will never have initials in front of its name- which to me is not much fun to earn anyway-I like obedience, agility, rally, herding, carting etc.anyway, you may be prepared to fly or drive to investigate -ONLY after you know the breed that you want. As for age-that is something else-one of the BEST dogs that I ever had was a 4yr old Rottie. I have flown out of state to investigate rescues that I have seen online to see if we were a "fit".

Take it slow dear many puppies will be produced in the summer and yes, most good breeders only have 1 or 2 litters on the ground as they like for the pups to be close to them. This is great for socialization. You are quite correct in "demanding " (nicely) results of OFA's & Heart as certain breeds have these problems. Oops almost forgot- once you have narrowed down your breeds research the breeds strengths and weaknesses health or temperament wise.

Once again, s l o w down things will work out just fine. " Anything worth having is worth waiting for".


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5

Liz said:


> I love newfies and you must understand I have collies - we are used to alot of hair but goodness they shed tons and what really gets me is the drool - it is an entity. Lovely temperments though, sweet dogs. The Pyr sounds good. I have adopted up to about 3 years old and a well bred dog of any age is a joy to live with and train. Great Danes are so wonderful but their typically short lifespan just breaks my heart, Doberman's are also a favorite for me though a little higher energy than my guys and as I have stated I am lazy. Good luck in your quest.


yeah the pyr looks nice, but i think we are going to go with a dobi puppy..i dont want a dog for 5 years..which the pyr will most likely give me.

btw on the akc site what kind of event should i select? i want to go to just regular dog shows, not obedience or agility..but i don't see any? is that conformation?


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## CorgiPaws

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> yeah the pyr looks nice, but i think we are going to go with a dobi puppy..i dont want a dog for 5 years..which the pyr will most likely give me.
> 
> btw on the akc site what kind of event should i select? i want to go to just regular dog shows, not obedience or agility..but i don't see any? is that conformation?


Yes, that is conformation. 
Though I think I'd put just as much- if not more- merit into other titles, but it all depends on what you're looking for.
From calling Irish Setter breeders, to looking at a rescue online... to now deciding on a Doberman puppy... all in one day? 
I think maybe sleeping on it... for a month... would be a good thing to do, perhaps.


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5

i actually found my breeder on their site...as well as through a reccomendation of a trainer we know that owns a dobie. the breeders claim that wobblers is created by people, as opposed to genetics(aka people being too rough with the dobies)


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> i actually found my breeder on their site...as well as through a reccomendation of a trainer we know that owns a dobie. the breeders claim that wobblers is created by people, as opposed to genetics(aka people being too rough with the dobies)


this was to werecatrisin


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## DoglovingSenior

Conformation is based on looks-things like top line, movement etc. You must train for this also from the beginning -sitting food on bricks so that the pup will learn to stand a certain way among other things. Puppy quality dogs are NOT usually candidates for conformation titles. The breeder will know that a pup already has a fault or is likely to develop one. Also unless you are going to spend lots of money taking the dog all over to compete with other dogs on his/her looks. You must learn how to handle a dog or hire one. I'm interested, you sound like a young person, I would think that you would be interested in one of the more active venues like obedience of schutzhund etc.


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## Caty M

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> i actually found my breeder on their site...as well as through a reccomendation of a trainer we know that owns a dobie. the breeders claim that wobblers is created by people, as opposed to genetics(aka people being too rough with the dobies)


Um, no. Technically it IS possible to damage the neck vertebrae into putting pressure on the spinal cord.. but if that was so, more than just the dobe would be commonly affected. It certainly is found in other breeds but not to the extent of the doberman. It is a genetic malformation of the neck vertebrae.


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## Caty M

I also think you need to write down the characteristics of the breed you want, and narrow it down from there. Setters and dobes have VERY opposite personalities. They are not similar breeds, at all. And another huge jump to the pyr. Before I decided on a sheltie, I went to a dog show and spent the whole day talking to breeders of the breeds I was considering as well as months of online research.

If you are truly going for a dobe, make sure you ask each breeder about rates of cardiomyopathy deaths in their dogs. Dobies are very prone to heart troubles which can cut their lifespan drastically.


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## werecatrising

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> i actually found my breeder on their site...as well as through a reccomendation of a trainer we know that owns a dobie. the breeders claim that wobblers is created by people, as opposed to genetics(aka people being too rough with the dobies)


If this is the breeder you are thinking of buying from I'd start looking elsewhere based on that statement.
If you do go with a dobe, make sure the parents have lots of cardio testing.They should be holtered yearly.There is also a genetic test for DCM now too.


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## CorgiPaws

I agree with Caty M, you really need to spend some serious time on figuring out what it is you want in a dog at all. What kind of personality do you want it to have? What kinds of things do you want to do with it? What kind of grooming are you willing to cope with? What size dog are you looking for? What activity level do you have? 

You're all across the board with breeds that are opposite each other, and making very fast decisions. Make a list, check it twice, and go from there. Once you've come up with breeds that really match what you're looking for, start more detailed research.


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## Liz

I also agree. I knew I loved shelties because I grew up with them but I had always wanted a collie and they are very similar. No other breed would do. As a breeder I look for that passion in my puppy people - if this is just one breed that would work I won't place a pup with them. I want them to want this breed and no other - nothing less will do. Short or long hair I don't care but they must want a collie above all else.


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5

DoglovingSenior said:


> Conformation is based on looks-things like top line, movement etc. You must train for this also from the beginning -sitting food on bricks so that the pup will learn to stand a certain way among other things. Puppy quality dogs are NOT usually candidates for conformation titles. The breeder will know that a pup already has a fault or is likely to develop one. Also unless you are going to spend lots of money taking the dog all over to compete with other dogs on his/her looks. You must learn how to handle a dog or hire one. I'm interested, you sound like a young person, I would think that you would be interested in one of the more active venues like obedience of schutzhund etc.


 I was actually saying that i would go to confirmation shows to look at the breds...but not to actually show. I am 21. 

as for everyone saying that my breed choices are all over the place, well I know quite a bit about all of the breeeds i am interested in(even though someone said i didnt), and I honestly like different aspects of each of them. Whatever I brought into this house, I would be able to provide the life it wants.

i can;t stop looking at that great pyrenees..he's 2 years old though, and uner perfect circumstances he;d live to 10...so idk about him.

there's a lot to think about


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5

Liz said:


> I also agree. I knew I loved shelties because I grew up with them but I had always wanted a collie and they are very similar. No other breed would do. As a breeder I look for that passion in my puppy people - if this is just one breed that would work I won't place a pup with them. I want them to want this breed and no other - nothing less will do. Short or long hair I don't care but they must want a collie above all else.


there's over 165 breeds recognized by the akc. why would you force people to only like one?


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## CorgiPaws

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> there's over 165 breeds recognized by the akc. why would you force people to only like one?


I can't speak for Liz, but I know that people who are "breed fanatics" tend to be very very into their dogs. Also, when someone is certain, without a dog that [insert breed here] is the dog that is absolutely perfect for them, and they prove their knowledge and understanding of that breed as well as its characteristics, it gives peace of mind that they have not only done their homework, but that they are committed to that dog, and prepared for the road ahead for the life of that dog. 
It's not fool proof. No method of rehoming is. Even great homes come to situations where rehoming is necessary, but the chances of someone making an impulse decision, while looking at a cute, wiggly puppy are less. I don't think Liz meant that her buyers can't like any other breeds at all, but more or less display total dedication to her breed of choice. When breeders do not mass produce dogs, it makes it that much easier to place into only the best, most dedicated homes. 


While you like certain aspects of all those dogs, and may fancy them all for different reasons: dogs are a total package. You have signed up for many different opposite packages that wouldn't all be happy in the same kind of lifestyle. It is SO important for people to obtain dogs that suit their needs and lifestyle as a WHOLE, and not just certain aspects of it. I say this as someone who went through the pain of not one but TWO rehoming situations because my life situation changed and no longer suited the dog's needs. It is so much easier to get a dog that fits like a glove into your current lifestyle, than get one in which you will have to change the way you do things to suit the dog- because rarely do those changes ever last. There is NO way that anyone's lifestyle would suit all of the dogs you listed. They all have different needs, and require different levels of activity and stimulation. 

Don't rush this process. Learn from it. Take the time to REALLY get to know each breed you like. Talk to breeders, go to shows, read. Spend time with the dogs. Consider not only how your life is now, but your 5 and 10 year plans. How will they fit in then? After months of research on each breed, then move forward, and the day you bring a pup home will be the best day ever, because it will fit. 
And don't get so hung up on lifespan. Of course we all want our dogs to live forever, but they don't. No matter what breed you get, absolutely anything will happen, and while SOME genetic disorders are testable, things like bloat, cancer, allergic reactions, and emergencies can happy to any dog, anywhere, at any time and come out of nowhere. Don't pass up the perfect match just because you think they may not get the mileage of a newer, smaller model. The dog you expect to live for 15 years could get hit by a car tomorrow and be gone, and the one you expect 6 to 8 years of enjoyment out of, just might surprise you and give you the best 15 years of your life. You can not plan and predict every aspect of the future, especially with live animals in the equation. Because I assure you, 8 or 10 years with the perfect dog for you, is far more valuable than unlimited years without your perfect match.


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## Javadoo

Yes, it is important to make sure that the parents of any potential pup you get has all the proper clearances (OFA for hips/elbows, CERF, PRA, Optigen, etc) BUT it sounds like you are taking that as a guarantee that the pup will be totally healthy and live a long life.
There are NO guarantees when it comes to Mother Nature.

I have 2 labs....both parents had ALL clearances, both lines were 100% clear for issues. Great lines for both dogs....yet Java has ED, OCD, DJD and tore both ACLs at 13 months old. Moka is completely healthy at this point (they're both 2 years old).

So while it is VERY important to make sure the lines are good and all dogs in the lines have the necessary and proper clearances, it's no guarantee that the pup you get will be 100% healthy, without any issues and will live a very long time. The clearances just increase the chances of getting a healthy pup, it's doesn't guarantee it. Problems can/do pop up, even in the best lines.

OFA listed the statistics.....12% of pups born to OFA cleared parents for elbows will still develop elbow dysplasia. 
Good luck with your search.


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## Maxy24

My only concern with Dobies for you (which is why I singled them out in my post) is that their attitude with strangers is VERY different from that of Goldens, which you have experience with (I don't know if you've owned other breeds). They are not supposed to love strangers, they are supposed to be a bit wary, watching their behavior to asses whether or not they are safe people. They need LOTS of socialization so that they can tell the difference between a real threat, and an imagined threat (like someone giving you a big hug). I just want to make sure you're aware of this, as it's a big consideration. Dobermans are also prone to same sex aggression, especially in males. It can't be trained out, but can be controlled. If those are things you are willing to work with, then maybe Doberman's are fine for you. If not, consider another breed.


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## Caty M

RC, I don't think that people need to be stuck one one breed only. I have two quite different breeds and am able to provide a good home for them, they do have a fairly similar personality type.

I think the problem is more that you aren't considering the needs and personality of the dogs you are considering getting. What do you want to do with the dog? Agility, hunting, obedience, etc? Or just a companion? I don't believe that a setter or a doberman is an easy breed like a golden to raise as just a companion pet.. Setters have insane amounts of energy and they really need to be out hunting or doing tracking work. Dobes are much more serious minded, but also energetic and should be put into an activity as well as they are a working dog.. they need something to do. 

Why are you not considering a lab or another golden? They are great, biddable dogs. Maybe if you want something more 'exotic' looking but still within the same personality type as your Shane was, and it sounded as if you were a good fit, maybe try a flat coat or a curly coated retriever? Or if you do truly want something more serious and work bred maybe look into a chesapeake bay retriever? They are by far the least outgoing and happy go lucky of the retrievers.


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## Scarlett_O'

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> there's over 165 breeds recognized by the akc. why would you force people to only like one?


It isnt, IMO(and I believe this is what Liz is saying as well,) about *liking* only one breed....HECK I can name, off the top of my head at least 39 breeds that I would LOOOOVE to own(or own again) but there are only a few that I have the passion for!:smile: And I believe that is what Liz was saying, especially with different types of dogs(like Liz and my herders) you WANT to find a home that has the PASSION for the breed! Other wise the training and over all life of that dog and that family is not going to be optimum, and as a breeder that is Liz's job(as well as that of other breeder's) to ensure that their puppies go to the best home possible!!:wink:


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## Liz

Exactly, thank you. I will talk to people new to herding breeds all the time but until they are truly committed and believe that this is exactly what they want I will not place a pup. I also love German Shepherd's, Doberman's, Great Danes and several other breeds. Only a couple might fit the bill for my current lifestyle. A German's Shepherd would probably be the closest fit but with hip and elbow problems to start with I know I cannot afford the quality of Shepherd I would want and I really don't have anything for that high a drive dog to do. I think they are amazing. Find a couple of dog breeds that will fit into yoru current lifestyle, exercise needs, temperment, and social needs. If you are outgoing and bubbly with tons of peopel over all the time a protective, guardian might not be the dog for you. Anyway keep asking questions and hopefully you can get pretty set in a direction that will work for you and your family. Hundreds of dog breeds - I am sure there are a few just perfect for you.


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## Celt

RCTRIPLEFRESH5----I have to admit that I really like dobs and setters (english though), and have own both, as well as a golden. Let me tell you, that wow, they are way different in pretty much every aspect. More on that later, on the dob breeder that you like, you said that she breeds a carrier and that she has had affected pups. You should stop and think, how likely is it that the one you choose might be affected and wobblers can be caused by rough handling but it can also be genetic depends on the "kind" of wobblers it is.
Now, my father always told people that if the only breed they had ever own was a golden then they would probably never be quite "satisfied" with any other breed. And since getting Dal, I get where he's coming from. Dal has to be the "softest" dog I've ever owned. And I've been told that he's a wonderful representative of the breed. Very laid back, easy going, a breeze to train ( I swear all you have to do is frown at him and he never do whatever it was again), as willing to go on a hike as just laze around, once a week grooming (except during shedding season). Just overall just an super "easy" dog.
The setter was much more "athletic", need to get out and moving at least every other day (much happier with every day), slightly harder to train (he seemed more distractable), had to be groomed at least every other day (more during shedding season) and I've heard can decide to form an attachement to just one family memeber.
The Dob was much more athletic, more "aggressive" in his approach in life (don't like that word but I can't think of another that fits), much harder to train, a lot easier grooming, more "destructive" as a puppy (gad he liked to chomp on things), needed a lot more socialization and for a much longer time.
All 3 are loyal and loving but they go about showing it in very different ways.
I think I should stop my babbling now.


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## monkeys23

I'll be honest, I didn't read through this whole thread.

In short, VWD IS a concern and you DO want the breeding stock to test clear. It is a serious genetic blood disorder. They should also test for Wobblers, cardiac conditions, and be very forthright about the parent's hip and eye scores. I would also ask about cancer history in the lines. Frankly I would be looking at working Dobe's that have done something in some venue outside the show ring because they are a working breed and I feel that means they should prove themselves worthy of being bred. JMO though. Dobes are not a very healthy breed (same with Goldens as I understand it.... though I am not a huge sporting breed fan) and it will take a lot of homework to track down someone reputable. There are TONS of Dobes in rescue too if you are up for that route, but then there is the health question part of things.

DeDe Bruno in Florida has some DAMN nice Dobermans and is a reputable breeder. She works her dogs in PP mostly and health tests, etc. She goes by the European standard and produces some nice dogs. I would talk to her if I wanted a Dobe and probably go through her or at the very least discuss my needs in a dog.
http://www.dourdenkennel.com/home.html

I have researched working GSD's for literally about 4 years and I've just now kind of gotten an idea what I want. There are a couple breeders I would feel comfortable getting a puppy from. I do however prefer young adults, but would take a pup.

Also in my research quest and meeting dogs, I've frankly changed my mind. I have found I like the health, athleticism, and personalities of Malinois and Dutchies better. Its not to say I don't still love working GSD's, but its pretty obvious that a maligator is going to suit me better than a good GSD even though a good GSD can be just as healthy and active. My trainer is actually a good breeder that only did 11 litters of working dogs over the course of 26 years and he will probably not breed again just because being in dogs is such a money suck and its so hard to find good people to take the dogs, especially the highest end working dogs you can get. If I had a few thousand I would take his 4 year old male (Malinois) off his hands and give him a good job and life. Thats probably not an option unfortunately. I actually turned down his brother which was stupid of me because he fricking gave that dog away for $500... Their mother is title French Ring level 3 (she's retired from trialing, but works better than ever) and their father was an active duty police dog in Miami. Excellent joint health and a very long lived breed to boot.

Just be patient and realize that it takes time and effort to get the right dog from a reputable breeder. I would be very leery of getting a working breed dog from show lines because to me it defeats the purpose of the breed to breed for looks, for example the pathetic overangulated GSD's that win and the overly square Malinois that win in the AKC ring.... mostly nervy, driveless wrecks of dogs that you could not in a million years pay me to live with... Sure there are some good ones, but....

I do see some nice young Dobe's pop up on the adoption section of Working Dog Forum from time to time that are pet home and light sport suitable. It might be worth lurking around there and asking some questions. They are blunt to the point of rudeness, but those people know their shit to put it just as bluntly.


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## monkeys23

Maxy24 said:


> My only concern with Dobies for you (which is why I singled them out in my post) is that their attitude with strangers is VERY different from that of Goldens, which you have experience with (I don't know if you've owned other breeds). They are not supposed to love strangers, they are supposed to be a bit wary, watching their behavior to asses whether or not they are safe people. They need LOTS of socialization so that they can tell the difference between a real threat, and an imagined threat (like someone giving you a big hug). I just want to make sure you're aware of this, as it's a big consideration. Dobermans are also prone to same sex aggression, especially in males. It can't be trained out, but can be controlled. If those are things you are willing to work with, then maybe Doberman's are fine for you. If not, consider another breed.


A stable Dobe should be plenty social. They aren't going to run up to everyone necessarily, but the ones that train in PP with us are that friendly! I think aloof is a more acurate description than wary. Frankly if I think the best protection dog is one that has the judgement to be super social and know the difference between random people and a real threat. 

Most breeds are prone to same sex aggression, but Dobes are pretty serious about it. Especially the males. But if you just have one dog, who cares! Get the opposite sex if you want another....


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## xellil

I got my Dobie from a rescue at 6 years old - most of the genetic problems will show up younger; i.e. they will drop dead of cardiomyopathy at 2 years rather than 6 years, normally.

He came with old AKC papers and his breeder had been banned for one year from the AKC for falsifying paperwork and now seems to be out of business (maybe she's advertising on craigslist) so I know he was probably horribly bred - and yet no sign of Wobbler's, dancing Dobie disease, or heart issues. And i have had him tested out the wazoo. He does have a tiny heart arrythmia that they are watching, but no medication. His only true genetic problem is that he's a blue Dobie, but even then he has no skin issues that often come with that - just thin hair and baldness on the side, and low thyroid which is medicated.

It's all a crap shoot, in the end. i know one couple who bought a pair of wonderfully bred Dobies, paid $7000 for the pair, had the shipped from California, and have had nothing but health issues with both of them. And one of them is a dog that is very temperamental, she is very snappy with other dogs.

my dog is a male that wasn't neutered until he was 6 years old, and he is very sociable with ALL dogs, even unneutered males. I don't think you can make that blanket statement about Dobies, i haven't found them to be that way at all.


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## monkeys23

Holy crap, I can't imagine paying that friggin' much... That is INSANE. I can see 5 grand for a finished adult PP dog, but why pay that when you could get a retired brood bitch or trial dog for much cheaper if you make friends with the right people...

I wouldn't consider being "snappy" with other dogs a temperate problem. These dogs do not need doggie pals most of the time. The breed was created to protect their humans, not spend their day running with other dogs.


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## xellil

I wouldn't want my dog to be snappy - I have had snappy dogs, and it makes it hard to take them alot of places. We go to the dog park, and my Dobie loves the socialization there. We can also go to farmer's markets, other outdoor events etc. and when some idiot lets their dog loose and they come up to us I am not worried about any resulting fight.

my Dobie is actually friendly with dogs and people, but Dobies are well known for knowing the difference between a stranger and a threatening stranger. I don't worry that if our neighbor's six year old opens our gate and comes in our yard that he will harm him.


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5

Caty M said:


> RC, I don't think that people need to be stuck one one breed only. I have two quite different breeds and am able to provide a good home for them, they do have a fairly similar personality type.
> 
> I think the problem is more that you aren't considering the needs and personality of the dogs you are considering getting. What do you want to do with the dog? Agility, hunting, obedience, etc? Or just a companion? I don't believe that a setter or a doberman is an easy breed like a golden to raise as just a companion pet.. Setters have insane amounts of energy and they really need to be out hunting or doing tracking work. Dobes are much more serious minded, but also energetic and should be put into an activity as well as they are a working dog.. they need something to do.
> 
> Why are you not considering a lab or another golden? They are great, biddable dogs. Maybe if you want something more 'exotic' looking but still within the same personality type as your Shane was, and it sounded as if you were a good fit, maybe try a flat coat or a curly coated retriever? Or if you do truly want something more serious and work bred maybe look into a chesapeake bay retriever? They are by far the least outgoing and happy go lucky of the retrievers.


we have decided to adopt winston. ust filled out the online application. it takes a few days to process so im nervous someone is going to grab him. I think a great pyr is perfect for us. besides a newf, this is another breed i really like. My dad likes them too. We didnt consider them at first because we were thinking a smaller dog(dobie or irish setter) was more practical than a newf or dane, and were going to go with one of those....but we can;'t pass winston up he's adorable.

fingers crossed noone grabs him...looks like such a great dog


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## Maxy24

Good Luck!


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## MollyWoppy

Good on you for adopting. You'll give Winston a great home. Got my fingers, toes and legs crossed for you!!


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5

MollyWoppy said:


> Good on you for adopting. You'll give Winston a great home. Got my fingers, toes and legs crossed for you!!


yeah he looks cool!
JUST OUT OF CURIOSITY DO U GUYS THINK HE LOOKS 100 PERCENT GREAT PYR// OR A MIX BREED?

I MAY SOUND HARSH, BUT AT THIS POINT, i would prefer a purebree, although ill check him out either way.


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## Maxy24

He looks pure to me, but who knows. And for the record, he's not the only Pyr in rescue in NJ.


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## RawFedDogs

RC, understand that in general, Pyrs have a completely different personality from a Golden. Goldens are friends with everyone. Pyrs on the other hand are bred to guard heards of sheep from wolves. It is not their job to go out and make friends with the preditory wolf. It's their job to kill the wolf. It's not their job to be friends with anyone that is not a member of the "herd" they are charged with protecting. Of course, this is a general statement and won't apply to every dog but it is a force that is definately in their genes. The few Pyrs I have had contact with are not friendly dogs and not easyily trained.


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## Caty M

RC what is your aversion to mutts? It's a rescue.. as long as his personality fits you and your lifestyle and you like his looks, what does it matter?..

As RFD said they are opposite in personality to your golden and in my experience aren't even that cuddly with their family, they are a working dog through and through, not like a golden would be.


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## monkeys23

Yes he does look purebred, BUT often livestock guardian breeders will cross pyrs with other breeds to get an optimal LGD to guard the sheep. Often with GP/Marmemma (I totally butchered that spelling... sorry!) or Kuvaz crosses you can't even tell they are mixed, they just look like big white fluffy LGDs. Being purebred is not priority number one, especially with working breeds that might benefit from having traits from various breeds to better do their jobs. :wink:


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## wags

Good Luck RC! Hope all works out well! Looking forward to hearing more about this pup!


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5

wags said:


> Good Luck RC! Hope all works out well! Looking forward to hearing more about this pup!


my application still has not been approved 

i really hope i filled out the right application...im confused....when you go to the website..there are two links that both say ''fill out our adoption application but they take you to different apps. I got an email back after sending it, but the one i filled just says adoption..as opposed to 2011 adoption..

here is the link..
http://members.petfinder.org/~NJ376/Adoption.htm

under the 11 it says adoption application...and to the right of that there is another....


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## wags

Did you get a thankyou? says you should recieve a thankyou after doing this. There is also a send to the sight area. You could also send them a note if you like, to make sure your application went through. But that seems right to me.


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## BrownieM

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> well the reason i am so angry, is that the breeders i found were all reccomended by the Irish setter club of america. they were all within 2 hours of us also, so we would have driven to meet the parents. john claimed he ahd the parents....but come on.....yelling at me for asking about the parent's health and history...and asking for pedigrees, and proof of champion lines, and OFA tests? I dont think so pal.
> 
> we are meeting the woman with the dobie puppies on thursday which will be exciting


I have found that just because a breeder is recognized or is a part of the parent breed club, this does not ensure that they are a reputable breeder. It is important to spend time, weeks, months talking to breeders, getting to know them and building a relationship.


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5

wags said:


> Did you get a thankyou? says you should recieve a thankyou after doing this. There is also a send to the sight area. You could also send them a note if you like, to make sure your application went through. But that seems right to me.


thanks wags...
i got an AUTOMATED thank you email.


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## BrownieM

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> I was actually saying that i would go to confirmation shows to look at the breds...but not to actually show. I am 21.


Just curious, what does being 21 have to do with showing dogs?


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5

BrownieM said:


> Just curious, what does being 21 have to do with showing dogs?


she said i sound young


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## wags

RC, You can also call them and say something to the liking of~ I am calling to make sure you got my application for the dog I am wanting to adopt, Winston! Tell them your curious too find out if the dog adoption application went through. You can tell them your seriously wanting this particular dog and want to know whether the app came through on their end. You can call and email! Bug "em!!!! GOOD LUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Eleventh Hour Rescue

Rockaway, NJ
973-664-0865 [email protected]


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5

wags said:


> RC, You can also call them and say something to the liking of~ I am calling to make sure you got my application for the dog I am wanting to adopt, Winston! Tell them your curious too find out if the dog adoption application went through. You can tell them your seriously wanting this particular dog and want to know whether the app came through on their end. You can call and email! Bug "em!!!! GOOD LUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> Eleventh Hour Rescue
> 
> Rockaway, NJ
> 973-664-0865 [email protected]


hahaha yeah i called but they go straight to voicemail..so i fgured id just wait another day since apps supposedly take 48 hours anyway.

but does a thank you automation sound right to you? or did u read im supposed to get a human response?

other than my adoption appi did email them(before doing the app) to ask how old he is..and thenn they said 2...so i filled out n app..and then emailed a reply saying thanks, i filled out an app, and told her my name.

figners crossed


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## wags

I read they thanked you by email. Not human response! But I would still call and bug 'em ha! My fingers and toes are crossed for you too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5

wags said:


> I read they thanked you by email. Not human response! But I would still call and bug 'em ha! My fingers and toes are crossed for you too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


tell ur dogs to cross their paws 
u have quite a few dogs as remember


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## xellil

is there an email address? When i have applied in the past, i normally had some email conversations first, to ask questions about the dog and to let them know the application was on the way.


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## wags

xellil said:


> is there an email address? When i have applied in the past, i normally had some email conversations first, to ask questions about the dog and to let them know the application was on the way.


Yes there is~ Phone #~ 973-664-0865 email address~ [email protected]


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## wags

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> tell ur dogs to cross their paws
> u have quite a few dogs as remember


 Ha that made me smile!:tongue: I have 4 dogs! :biggrin1:So they as well are keeping the paws crossed for you! Let us know how its going! and I will tell the kids and hubby to keep their fingers and toes crossed as well!:biggrin1:


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## CorgiPaws

RC-
You seem to be very against mixed breed dogs, why? Rescuing a dog is an excellent thing to do, and it looks purebred to me. But even so. You want him. You filled out an app, you are trying to adopt a dog, and if it was proven to not be purebred would it really make a difference anyway? The only thing that would really make a difference with a rescue being purebred or not, is you maybe wouldn't get the stereotypical GP personality.... but breed personality doesn't seem to have much importance in your search anyway. Purebred or not, Winston looks like a great dog, and I think if you're prepared, could bring a lot of happiness to your home. 
I think it is slightly concerning that within a matter of a couple hours you had "decided" on a a dobie puppy, and then are filling out an application for another dog that is entirely different from a dobie. Are you certain you have really thought this through? You seem to go back and forth a lot in a short period of time on what you want.


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## tem_sat

RC,

Winston looks great to me! He's a cutie pie! However...

THE MILLION DOLLAR QUESTION...

Whatcha gonna feed him? :biggrin:


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5

tem_sat said:


> RC,
> 
> Winston looks great to me! He's a cutie pie! However...
> 
> THE MILLION DOLLAR QUESTION...
> 
> Whatcha gonna feed him? :biggrin:


well we have some totw here leftover, and will probably keep him on that. i have a suspicion i will have to buy a 5 pound bag of science diet though


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5

wags said:


> Ha that made me smile!:tongue: I have 4 dogs! :biggrin1:So they as well are keeping the paws crossed for you! Let us know how its going! and I will tell the kids and hubby to keep their fingers and toes crossed as well!:biggrin1:


they caled my references, so hopefully tomorrow will be the day we can meet him.
and to linsey....im ust shopping around. i am aware of the characteristics of the dobes, as well as the chars of the pyrs. i am actually going to look at the dobe puppy tomorrow, if you are concerned on that maybe u should call the aspca on me and get me banned from owning dogs as we are concerning


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5

*approved*

nwo i ust have to make an appt to meet winston!
hopefully we can go tomorrow.

thanks for crossing your paws.


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## CorgiPaws

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> and to linsey....im ust shopping around. i am aware of the characteristics of the dobes, as well as the chars of the pyrs. i am actually going to look at the dobe puppy tomorrow, if you are concerned on that maybe u should call the aspca on me and get me banned from owning dogs as we are concerning


Dave, 
I did not imply that you are unfit for owning dogs in the slightest, there is no need to go there. 
"Shopping around" isn't really something that one should do when concerning LIVE ANIMALS, and I just think it would be much much more ideal to do your research, real research... the kind that takes months and many many discussions.... before sending in applications and taking up the time of rescue volunteers and breeders who think you are actually interested in adopting. It's pretty irresponsible to be looking at actual available dogs prior to doing the research... that's how most people end up with dogs they really shouldn't have. Go talk to breeders- ones that don't have litters on the ground- and spend time with their dogs, ask questions, get answers, do your homework before involving dogs that may or may not fit. Do you have a job for your dog to do? Watching you lift weights is not very appealing to canines, you're looking at high maintenance breeds that are very different from Goldens. 
The people on this forum, including myself, only bring these things up to help. Please stop assuming the world is out to get you! We all are excited for you to find your next friend. I couldn't be happier for you, honestly. I know losing Shane must have been absolutely tragic for you, and my heart goes out to you for that. I don't doubt that you're a beyond excellent dog owner, but a few, myself included, are concerned that you are rushing the very important process of research in obtaining your next pet. That's all.


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5

PuppyPaws said:


> Dave,
> I did not imply that you are unfit for owning dogs in the slightest, there is no need to go there.
> "Shopping around" isn't really something that one should do when concerning LIVE ANIMALS, and I just think it would be much much more ideal to do your research, real research... the kind that takes months and many many discussions.... before sending in applications and taking up the time of rescue volunteers and breeders who think you are actually interested in adopting. It's pretty irresponsible to be looking at actual available dogs prior to doing the research... that's how most people end up with dogs they really shouldn't have. Go talk to breeders- ones that don't have litters on the ground- and spend time with their dogs, ask questions, get answers, do your homework before involving dogs that may or may not fit. Do you have a job for your dog to do? Watching you lift weights is not very appealing to canines, you're looking at high maintenance breeds that are very different from Goldens.
> The people on this forum, including myself, only bring these things up to help. Please stop assuming the world is out to get you! We all are excited for you to find your next friend. I couldn't be happier for you, honestly. I know losing Shane must have been absolutely tragic for you, and my heart goes out to you for that. I don't doubt that you're a beyond excellent dog owner, but a few, myself included, are concerned that you are rushing the very important process of research in obtaining your next pet. That's all.


well we are serious about adopting winston. I don;t know why people think i am not researched in the breeds as even before i adopted shane, i researched plenty of breeds, and was even considering a second dog, and did even more research.
I am well aware of many of the health ailments such as bone cancer, hip displysia, and other stuff great pyrs have.
i am well aware these dogs are diggers, they are stubborn, and are very protective of their ''flock''. I am aware they are big barkers.
I am aware these dogs in some cases drool although not to the extent of mastiffs, im aware that these dogs shed sooooooooooooo much.

maybe i am not as informed as a great Pyrenees breeder but i feel i am more than knowledgeable about the breed to go and rescue winston. And dont forget that if i do not rescue him, someone else will, and who knows who they are.

a dog this size needs to be adopted by someone who understands that it requires exercise. we have a huge house, and a huge backyard with a 6 foot fence.
it also helps we love large dogs.

He is the perfect size for us

right now what it comes down to is whether this specific dog is a match for us, and i look forward to meeting him

and i am not agaisnt mixed breeds, but i do admit i like the beauty of purebreds best. Also lie you said it is a little easier to predict qualities of certain dogs.


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## Caty M

RC, I think the issue is more that you are/were calling rescues and breeders already about three VERY VERY different breeds, and then decided to adopt one that same day. It takes TIME to make a proper, informed decision. It took me months each to decide on a sheltie and an Italian greyhound. All that time was spent doing online research, dog shows, contacting breeders, etc. It's not a one day thing to decide on a breed and get a dog.


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## Scarlett_O'

May I ask if you are open to adoption AND want a pure bred(or as close to as possible) why you havent contacted some purebred rescues?

I did that when we where looking for a 3rd dog, my local BC rescue person was actually someone who I already have contact with being a fellow BC owner and she put me in touch with Leo's owner...now I couldnt imagine out life without him!:smile:


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5

Scarlett_O' said:


> May I ask if you are open to adoption AND want a pure bred(or as close to as possible) why you havent contacted some purebred rescues?
> 
> I did that when we where looking for a 3rd dog, my local BC rescue person was actually someone who I already have contact with being a fellow BC owner and she put me in touch with Leo's owner...now I couldnt imagine out life without him!:smile:



ive checked out rescues online, but didnt see dogs that I was interested in. I then decided to go onto petfinder, and do breed specific searches, and winston really caught me


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## lucky

Just looked at the link, Winston is adorable


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## wags

I am so excited for you RC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! He is gorgeous! Beautiful dog there! Let us know how all goes! I bet your not going to want to leave him there after seeing him! I hope you get to bring him home soon! Fingers toes crossed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## tem_sat

One piece of advice, should you adopt Winston. Assuming there is a "trial" phase wherein you can return him should he not be a good fit, I would have a vet appointment prescheduled and take him from the adoption location straight to the vet. Have the vet give him a good exam and do a heartworm test. Do not depend on any test done by the adoption facility. Been there, done that with my HW+ Doxie who was HW- according to the rescue.


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## kevin bradley

tem_sat said:


> One piece of advice, should you adopt Winston. Assuming there is a "trial" phase wherein you can return him should he not be a good fit, I would have a vet appointment prescheduled and take him from the adoption location straight to the vet. Have the vet give him a good exam and do a heartworm test. Do not depend on any test done by the adoption facility. Been there, done that with my HW+ Doxie who was HW- according to the rescue.


Respectfully, I could never imagine returning a Dog. I suppose if he had massive chronic issues I might change my tune. 

Heartworm+?.... yeah, I adopted a Dog who was heartworm positive and I knew about it on the front end. A weekend of some tough treatment and he was good as new. He's 10 now and his name is Murphy.

Good luck RC. I'm sure you'll give your boy a good home.


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## monkeys23

So I forgot about the GP my old neighbors had. He had a genetic spinal disorder from being from a bad breeder. I'm sure it was exacerbated from being a very overweight kibble fed dog, but just something to keep in mind. With an adult rescue they would know if Winston had it by now, so I'm sure he's good. Just something I thought I should bring up for you to keep in mind.

Speaking of purebred looks... I've seen a lot of people get dogs because they liked the look or something along those lines. 9 times out of 10 I've also seen it end terribly for the dog because the people should have picked something else. Since you keep looking into working dogs I think you should do more research and meet a lot of dogs before jumping into anything. They aren't like Goldens. No offense, but I'm not a fan of Goldens or most of the sporting group. They just aren't my cup of tea. However herding/working dogs are my cup of tea and I've grown up around BC's and LGD's. I've always loved sled dogs, so its not shocking that I have some, but it was surprising how hard I fell for shepherds. I love them a lot and I'm very much aware the kinds of dog I like best are not suitable to most people. Please take your time choosing the right dog.

We've had some very nice Anatolians and PR's through our shelter system, some surrendered for eating too much and some strays and some for being what they are and needing job... I remember one very low key BC girl who was surrendered for the second time for being too active. Fat as a damn tick and one of the most biddable shelter BC's I have ever had the pleasure to work with, most are so overstimulated from being kenneled that they explode when they get out into the yard and we had to run a good while before they calmed down enough to work on anything. She was so smart, she picked up directional whistles very quickly. I mostly stopped volunteering because gas $ was an issue and they changed the volunteering rules to where it limited the time I could run the dogs that needed it most in the yard. But another factor I don't like to talk about was how heartbreaking it was to know that most of these dogs were going to pet homes where they'd be left in the yard or house all day, fed corn filled crap until they were too fat to be drivey anymore, and none of their intelligence tapped. Its just how the vast majority treat their dogs here, maybe its different where you live. But dang its so depressing!

Sorry for the long post, but please meet some of the breeds you are interested in before adopting/buying them. Please. They aren't Goldens and while that makes them more awesome imo it also means you may be in for a surprise. :smile:

I actually almost adopted a Dobe (gorgeous red girl with beautiful working crop ears and had clearly had pups before) when I was looking for a dog. She just wasn't available to go home yet or I would have, but I'm glad I ended up with Lily. I may yet end up with one someday... never say never...

Part of the reason I want to start from scratch with a good breeder next time is that I'm sick of fixing problems people have knowingly and unknowingly created. I love my rescue dogs and I love my friend's dogs, but holy crap it would be luxurious to start with a well bred pup or young adult from a reputable breeder.


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## kevin bradley

last post probably came across a bit self righteous. 

Not how I intended. 

But I do stand by this.... I just don't think I could "return" a Dog.


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5

this dog is amazing. He is not the alrgest pyr, but that is good because he is
in the breed standard. he weighs 97 pounds, but the rescue said that's cause he
was in the rescue, and at his alst home was 110...so that is what he will prob
be , as he gets accustomed to his new home 

when we first met him he was standoffish for the first 10 mins, but he has been
amazing today. we got him at 12pm today...so 13 hours ago.
he rides aazingly well i nthe car(we took 1.5 hour drive home with him)..and he
fell asleep in my arms 


i had a headache when we came home and took a nap on the couch and he layed on
the floor beside me.

he also later on, climbed on the couch and laid with me haha/

it is 1am and he is not howling, and he hasnt barked at all.

i left him unofficially alone for a few mins while i went to get coffee(my dad
was home, but sleeping)...and he was very good in the house....
although im kind of dissapointed that when i returned he did not bark...but
maybe once he gets more used to our home, he will become more protective.

we also took him to petsmart...and everyone loved him 
he was hard to control by the mice though 

he's a drooler, and it's hard keeping his fur clean. the rescue kept it
spotless, but im having trouble keeping up with the drool and his front and
getting dirty

i feel guilty, enough that i only put my dog down last week, and I already like
Winston more.

he doesnt seem to be a digger. he was loose in the rescue's yard, and he just
kicked some dirt back..i guess to mark his territory(he kicked lie a
horse)...but nothing else.

he has quite a history. apparently he is from ohio, and i think his owners left
him outside....and some laws prohibited this, and so they had to give him up. he
was given to this rescue.

he was adopted from this rescue, and returned for the dumbest reason. reason.
they had him for a month, and then returned him because they were scared that he
would guard his children from their friends.....do some research on the
freaking breed before adopting him

oh and btw  im watching tv right as itype this, and 2 times the doorbell rang
and well you could guess what happened 

he seems much more behaved in the car, and with food than shane.

i know this is probably a psychotic question, but iw as shooting a video of him, and i had a treat in my hand, and as i turned the camera on, the treat touched the screen...and i thought giving him the treat might give him cancer...i gave him the treaat anyway, because i have ocd and gen anxety disorder..and thought i was being irrational...heck my GAD AND OCD can be so bad...he was barking at the doorbell before i gave him the treat, and now he is not barking after i gave it to him(and the door rang again) and im paranoid it is due to the ''radioactive'' treat...

shane was a good boy, and im going to use his death as a learning experience..love yah shane

btw , we are giving him canidae snap biscuit treats..they have grains, but they arent too bad imo. and 14 bucks for 4 pounds is decent.

Calculated Caloric Content
ME (kcal/kg) 3520
ME (kcal/biscuit) 130
ME (kcal/snap) 32.5

All Natural Ingredients
Chicken Meal, Turkey Meal, Brown Rice, Barley, Dark Rye, Oatmeal, Rice Bran, Chicken Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), Rolled Oats, Apples, Carrots, Eggs, Flaxseed, Molasses, Norwegian Kelp, Garlic, Parsley, Peppermint, Sunflower Oil (preserved with mixed tocopherols), Choline Chloride, Suncured Alfalfa Meal, Inulin (from chicory root), Lecithin, Sage Extract, Cranberries, Beta-Carotene, Rosemary Extract, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Dried Enterococcus Faecium Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus Casei Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus Plantarum Fermentation Product, Dried Trichoderma Longibrachiatum Fermentation Extract, Vitamin E Supplement, Iron Proteinate, Zinc Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Potassium Iodide, Thiamine mononitrate, Manganese Proteinate, Manganous Oxide, Ascorbic Acid, Vitamin A Supplement, Biotin, Niacin, Calcium Pantothenate, Manganese Sulfate, Sodium Selenite, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B6), Vitamin B12 Supplement, Riboflavin, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Folic Acid, Papaya, Pineapple.
.


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## Maxy24

I'm glad he's fitting in so well. Don't worry about him not barking, it's not a sign of whether or not he would protect the home if a real intruder entered. I would make sure that friendly strangers offer him some treats. My friends Pyr bit someone recently because the person gave her a hug and he didn't like that. So make sure he learns that people you happily invite in are really awesome. Also get him out and about on walks are reward him for staying calm when people and dogs walk by. That's another problem my friend is having, her dog is reactive on leash. Guarding instincts are great when you want them, not so great when they are directed at people that are not breaking into your house or trying to harm you.

I know a lot of people with drooly breeds carry a small towel to wipe off their face when they get slobbery. 

Treats are fine, your dog likely got cancer from his genetics, as you know it's SUPER common in Goldens. There was nothing you could have done to prevent it. There are people who feed their dogs the absolute worst foods for their whole lives and they are pretty healthy and live pretty long lives. So don't worry about feeding your dog GOOD treats. You can always use freeze dried meat as treats too (I know Bravo sells some), they have nothing but muscle meat in them.


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## MollyWoppy

Awesome RC, glad you gave him a home and glad you are so happy with him. It would be nice to see some pictures you know!
Don't worry about that treat and the videoscreen stuff, seriously, I would be a gonna if that were true.


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## lucky

Congragulations on your new addition ... I am so glad he has found a home. Look forward to some pics, after he's settled of course


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## wags

OMG I am so thrilled for you:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:!!!!!!!!!!!! How wonderful everything turned out with Winston. Please do not feel guilty about just putting Shane down and liking Winston. You will always always have Shane in your heart. You will never ever forget him, and he's right there with you always. Winston is a beautiful dog and he sounds like just what you were looking for! Can't wait to see the video of him! As for the video thing treats don't worry nothings going to happen! Go enjoy your new pup! How could you not he's gorgeous! Good Luck RC with your new found friend,and give him a great big hug from me:grouphug:!!!!!!!!!!!! And remember Shane's right there by your side always!


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5

wags said:


> OMG I am so thrilled for you:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:!!!!!!!!!!!! How wonderful everything turned out with Winston. Please do not feel guilty about just putting Shane down and liking Winston. You will always always have Shane in your heart. You will never ever forget him, and he's right there with you always. Winston is a beautiful dog and he sounds like just what you were looking for! Can't wait to see the video of him! As for the video thing treats don't worry nothings going to happen! Go enjoy your new pup! How could you not he's gorgeous! Good Luck RC with your new found friend,and give him a great big hug from me:grouphug:!!!!!!!!!!!! And remember Shane's right there by your side always!


thanks everyone. I was just wondering how critical it is to switch foods slowly? When i was at the rescue they told me he was on proplan chicken and rice..and we have TOTW DUCK at the house. I honestly couldnt bear giving hi that s*** anymore, and have just been giving him totw since we've had him. I figured worst that would happen is he'd have diarrhea for a week.
I could also donate the proplan to a neighbor.

oh and we've given him free run and he;s been so good


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## CorgiPaws

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> thanks everyone. I was just wondering how critical it is to switch foods slowly? When i was at the rescue they told me he was on proplan chicken and rice..and we have TOTW DUCK at the house. I honestly couldnt bear giving hi that s*** anymore, and have just been giving him totw since we've had him. I figured worst that would happen is he'd have diarrhea for a week.
> I could also donate the proplan to a neighbor.
> 
> oh and we've given him free run and he;s been so good


First off... CONGRATULATIONS!! Bringing a new dog home is a very fun time. I'm glad Winston is settling in great, and that so far he seems to be a great fit for your family. Good for you for adopting a rescue, what a great thing you have done, and a very rewarding one as well! 

As for switching food: I hate to admit this, but even before raw, I never really waited long to swap puppies over, and when I brought Champ home at 1 year old, he went from Pedigree to Nutro (I thought it was fantastic at the time!) overnight, and later to wellness without transition. Some dogs just take to it easier than others. The worst that can happen is a little digestive upset, really. If you're super concerned, you can give a little but of canned pumpkin should any upset occur. Many people will tell you it's vital to take it slow- and some dogs do better that way, but many dogs do just fine switching. I personally like to get my dogs off junky foods ASAP and would prefer to go the pumpkin route before feeding junk for a long transition.


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## cast71

come on dude you should be a pro by now, just joking with you hehehe If you don't want to do a slow change, than just keep an eye out. If he gets an upset stomach, fast him for a day, than start back up with a reduced amount. Just keep doing this till he gets use to the new food. No need to use pumpkin. Congratulations;0)


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5

PuppyPaws said:


> First off... CONGRATULATIONS!! Bringing a new dog home is a very fun time. I'm glad Winston is settling in great, and that so far he seems to be a great fit for your family. Good for you for adopting a rescue, what a great thing you have done, and a very rewarding one as well!
> 
> As for switching food: I hate to admit this, but even before raw, I never really waited long to swap puppies over, and when I brought Champ home at 1 year old, he went from Pedigree to Nutro (I thought it was fantastic at the time!) overnight, and later to wellness without transition. Some dogs just take to it easier than others. The worst that can happen is a little digestive upset, really. If you're super concerned, you can give a little but of canned pumpkin should any upset occur. Many people will tell you it's vital to take it slow- and some dogs do better that way, but many dogs do just fine switching. I personally like to get my dogs off junky foods ASAP and would prefer to go the pumpkin route before feeding junk for a long transition.


not gonna lie im SHOCKED at pro plan's ingridient list.
i know purina is garbage, and that proplan is no exception, but isnt it the second to best food they have..next to purina one beyond(nor sure if thats the name haha)

and it still has corn by product, corn gluten, and EVERYTHING that id expect from kibbles and bits -_-.
Winston was on pro plan at his last home,...thank god they surrendered him back to the rescue hahahah.

i think shelters should buy diamond naturals for all of the pets...i mean come on..it's not even expensive.


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## kevin bradley

happy for you, RC. Glad its working out so well with Winston. Sounds like he's gonna be a lot of fun for many, many years.


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## tem_sat

kevin bradley said:


> Respectfully, I could never imagine returning a Dog. I suppose if he had massive chronic issues I might change my tune.
> 
> Heartworm+?.... yeah, I adopted a Dog who was heartworm positive and I knew about it on the front end. A weekend of some tough treatment and he was good as new. He's 10 now and his name is Murphy.
> 
> Good luck RC. I'm sure you'll give your boy a good home.


Not to say you are not correct, of course you are. In my case I didn't like the "misrepresentation" and putting him though the treatment and aftercare was very scary for him and me! But would I have changed a single thing and returned him? Certainly not! My apologies for any misunderstandings!


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5

kevin bradley said:


> happy for you, RC. Glad its working out so well with Winston. Sounds like he's gonna be a lot of fun for many, many years.


thanks kev


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5

winstons so crazy! if i dont pet him every second he digs his paw in my arm


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