# Pup with anal gland issues



## VizslaMama

I would like to some help from those of you who have/had a dog(s) that are effected by anal gland issues and what you are doing/feeding to help this problem. 

My 55lb Vizsla is currently on antibiotics to treat what seems to be an infection stemming from his glands. When he went to the vet he had a very high fever, his glands were full and very sore. The vet determined it was due to his glands and he is now on antibiotics for the next 2 weeks. Currently is on day 5. 

The vet told me to add fiber to his diet to help bulk up his poops. He specifically mentioned adding a small amount of bran daily or another high fiber source. He mentioned he mostly see this in raw fed dogs (not 100%) and mostly those who feed PMR - since these dogs do not get veggies, grains, etc. He says this can result in SOME DOGS(not all) small poops that do not clear the glands naturally. PMR feeder please do not shoot the messenger. :sorry: I just feel really bad for my buddy and want to help him. 

I DID sprinkle a tiny bit of ground bran yesterday and today to his breakfast meals no bone. His poop was a bit bigger this morning but still looks like it is tender when he goes. I feel awful! 

He still has a ways to go with his antibitotics, but I want to try a releive his discomfort asap. I am cutting back on his bone intake and will watch to make sure it doesn't get too loose. 

Back to the main reason for my post:

1. What have you used that helped. 

2. How much did you feed? 

I have heard anything from pumpkin, beet pulp, brown rice, carrots, celery, to bran added daily.


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## xellil

I have heard the opposite. Harder, firmer poops with raw help express the glands rather than giant mushy poops. Did he have this problem before raw food? 

Snorkels has had an anal gland issue probably her whole life. When I got her, she had it. 

She had it the whole year we fed her fibery food (including pumpkin and green bean although it was for constipation not anal glands), and she has it since raw although it's not as bad - I only get her glands expressed every other month rather than every two weeks.

i think some dogs are just prone to it and there's not much you can do except express the glands often. If you can learn to do it yourself, you wouldn't have to go to the vet for it. 

But if they are not expressing naturally, like Snorkels, manually expressing them periodically should keep problems away.


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## magicre

i have a dog who, when we got him, released those glands any time he was stressed, hungry, sleepy, you name it, he did it.

i never thought a cute little pug could skunk so badly. so i was told by my vet and my groomer to express or have the glands expressed regularly, as in once a month or so.

when we started feeding raw, i noticed the gland expression lessened.

and then i read here that feeding raw means i should not express the glands, they will do it naturally because of the fibre of the bone.

i have found that he expresses his glands only when he's stressed or awakened abruptly, as pugs sleep the sleep of the dead.

so, i listened. i no longer express the glands...and he no longer skunks so often. now it's every few months instead of every few days.

i wish i could give you an answer that didn't involve infected glands...but i have to wonder that, if they are expressed manually, is it possible that the cause of the infection is coming from the manual expression?


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## VizslaMama

@ xellil - I also thought harder firmer poops help glands express naturally. So I never worried about them. I didn't even know they were needing to be expressed until we had to take him to the vet for what I thought was an unrelated issue. He had red, swollen, yucky discharge eyes so the vet gave him eye drops. Then I mentioned he had been scooting his butt a bit, not a lot and I asked if we be concerned about worms. He said I bet it is his glands. Sure enough that is how he found out Copper had a high fever, then cleared the glands, and prescribed antibiotics. I asked about the worms again but he didn't seem concerned that Copper had worms. The only cases he normally sees in raw fed dogs is tapeworm (I think he said, i could be wrong) White rice like pieces would should up in the stool. Can't be detected by testing. I haven't noticed anything yet.

Lets just say - I left the vet office with eye drops and antibiotics and no conclusion to what was happening to my dog. Frustrating. I just trusted my vet was doing his job.

He has never been on anything but raw. The breeder we got him from started her whole litter on raw except lunch time which was kibble just incase the pups new family didn't want to feed raw. We have recently switch to buying bulk fresh raw and we prepare ourselves now. I think he has only has had a few bouts of mushy poops, but he has also eaten some bad stuff that I assumed caused that problem. Copper will eat anything.

@ magicre - He has never had his glands expressed manually, last Thursday was his first time by the vet. 

He pooped right before we went into the vet office. If his glands were clearing properly, they should have been empty. No?


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## VizslaMama

I should note - he has scooted his bum since visiting the vet. So obviously something is going on.


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## magicre

if he's got an infected anal gland, then something is definitely going on....although my corgi mix scoots because her tush itches..but that's another day.

one would think the gland would empty with a good solid poop applying pressure but not the case with bubba the puglet...

although feeding him raw has helped immensely, it hasn't stopped it totally and stress can cause that emptying...kind of like skunks do as a defense.

but your dog...that's an infection...see, i have always wondered why they get infected..especially on a raw diet...

but, i'm real glad you caught it....even if it happened in a round about way. good for your vet.


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## xellil

He might just be like Snorkels. Something wrong back there. She's never ever had soft poops but she has a constant anal gland problem. Admittedly, she has not had an infection in her glands but I get them expressed often.

When we first started on raw, I had heard that the problem would clear up. So I just let her go naturally for about three months, until she was scooting around like crazy and I said oops raw is not gonna fix that!

I could be wrong - maybe fiber will help. I just didn't see that in my own experience, and logically it doesn't make alot of sense to me. unless gigantic poops squeeze the anal glands better.


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## DeekenDog

Just a thought. Deeken's anal gland issues were never as severe as your boy's but it turns out they were caused by the fish oil supplement I was giving. I posted on another board about him having issues with them and somebody mentioned that their dog had had issues as well until she stopped fish oil. I decided to try it and they cleared right up. I have since switched to coconut oil.


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## VizslaMama

xellil said:


> I could be wrong - maybe fiber will help. I just didn't see that in my own experience, and logically it doesn't make alot of sense to me. unless gigantic poops squeeze the anal glands better.


And that is OK, I didn't really want to introduce extra fiber stuff but I will try anything as long as it helps. Thanks for your thoughts!


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## xellil

One thing I would have never thought of is fish oil!!! I don't feed oil supplements, but I do feed alot of fish.


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## DeekenDog

xellil said:


> One thing I would have never thought of is fish oil!!! I don't feed oil supplements, but I do feed alot of fish.


Deeken eats fish too and is fine with it. Its just the supplement and I tried two different brands- didn't seem to make a difference


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## VizslaMama

DeekenDog said:


> Just a thought. Deeken's anal gland issues were never as severe as your boy's but it turns out they were caused by the fish oil supplement I was giving. I posted on another board about him having issues with them and somebody mentioned that their dog had had issues as well until she stopped fish oil. I decided to try it and they cleared right up. I have since switched to coconut oil.


Hmmm, now that you mention that. I switched from Herring Oil, to Salmon Oil, VERY recently. I wonder....I can eliminate and wait a week or so after his meds are done and test him on it.

I don't feed fish, nor can I get fish cheap, so if I eliminate this oil for a bit, is he ok without his Omega's for 3 weeks? Silly question, but I am just so used to giving it to him daily. 

I didn't think an allergic reaction could cause gland issues. But I guess what goes in, must come out.


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## frogdog

Do I ever know the issues concerning anal glands...have had at least 4 dogs where this was a chronic issue. One of our dogs when I was growing up, Gizmo, had them nonstop and usually required surgery twice a year along with being expressed no less than once a month. My dog I lost recently, Little One, I expressed his glands myself once a week. The vet always stated this was notorious in small breeds and rare in large. Also, all these dogs were kibble fed...unfortunately, never got the raw experience.


ETA: Yes, scooting the butt along the floor is a big sign and also, licking back there or trying to. Little One's glands excreted all the time, ugh...he would be sitting on your lap and leave a nice little spot, so ucky...still needed them expressed weekly or twice a month minimum. He was fed a premium kibble...Gizmo and others when I was growing up - probably purina...I know but this was the 80's into the 90's we smartened up.


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## magicre

DeekenDog said:


> Just a thought. Deeken's anal gland issues were never as severe as your boy's but it turns out they were caused by the fish oil supplement I was giving. I posted on another board about him having issues with them and somebody mentioned that their dog had had issues as well until she stopped fish oil. I decided to try it and they cleared right up. I have since switched to coconut oil.


i wonder if that was part of bubba's issue too....i started out with salmon oil and both dogs lost their fur...but it never occurred to me that salmon oil would contribute to anal glands...because, when i stopped giving it...and when we stopped manually expressing them, that's when he stopped releasing so often.

we even switched to fish oil from sardines and herring, i think...and that didn't stop it. d'oh. maybe.

mine do get fish, though once or twice a week...wild caught sardines or herring or mackerel...that doesn't seem to have made any difference...

thanks.


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## magicre

VizslaMama said:


> Hmmm, now that you mention that. I switched from Herring Oil, to Salmon Oil, VERY recently. I wonder....I can eliminate and wait a week or so after his meds are done and test him on it.
> 
> I don't feed fish, nor can I get fish cheap, so if I eliminate this oil for a bit, is he ok without his Omega's for 3 weeks? Silly question, but I am just so used to giving it to him daily.
> 
> I didn't think an allergic reaction could cause gland issues. But I guess what goes in, must come out.


how was he on herring oil?

and do you feed grass fed/grass finished proteins? if so, then don't worry about omega 3.


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## magicre

frogdog said:


> Do I ever know the issues concerning anal glands...have had at least 4 dogs where this was a chronic issue. One of our dogs when I was growing up, Gizmo, had them nonstop and usually required surgery twice a year along with being expressed no less than once a month. My dog I lost recently, Little One, I expressed his glands myself once a week. The vet always stated this was notorious in small breeds and rare in large. Also, all these dogs were kibble fed...unfortunately, never got the raw experience.
> 
> 
> ETA: Yes, scooting the butt along the floor is a big sign and also, licking back there or trying to. Little One's glands excreted all the time, ugh...he would be sitting on your lap and leave a nice little spot, so ucky...still needed them expressed weekly or twice a month minimum. He was fed a premium kibble...Gizmo and others when I was growing up - probably purina...I know but this was the 80's into the 90's we smartened up.


then malia's the exception to the rule. she scoots because she has an itch. she is much too ladylike to release such foul smelling stuff on my carpets.

having said that, do you think this is a breed thing too? smush faced dogs?

although the dog in question is a vizla and my dog is a pug...my shih tzus never had a problem.....

i wonder if it really could be too much fish oil or salmon oil.....maybe it's just too much, not that we're giving it.


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## xellil

My vet told me dachshunds are prone to it because their butts are flat. No idea if that's true or not.


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## frogdog

magicre said:


> then malia's the exception to the rule. she scoots because she has an itch. she is much too ladylike to release such foul smelling stuff on my carpets.
> 
> having said that, do you think this is a breed thing too? smush faced dogs?
> 
> although the dog in question is a vizla and my dog is a pug...my shih tzus never had a problem.....
> 
> i wonder if it really could be too much fish oil or salmon oil.....maybe it's just too much, not that we're giving it.


Well for smush face...Yogi does not have this problem. The dogs we had problems with were pekingese and shih tzu.

This is what I found researching...

"For unknown reasons some dogs' anal sacs produce a rather thick, semi-solid material which is much more prone to impacting the sac due to the sacs' inability to pass this semi-solid material through the narrow duct to the outside. In many of these cases the sac will become infected, cause pain and inflammation and even break through to the skin surface. 
The abscessed anal sac may need surgery to provide drainage and curettage of the damaged and infected sac and surrounding tissue. Antibiotics are indicated in abscessed anal sac disease.

Some dogs may be born with very narrow channels that lead from the sacs to the edge of the anus, thereby obstruction the flow of anal sac material. Acquired damage to the duct can occur when perianal infections, trauma, allergies and inflammation compress or obstruct the narrow channel leading from the sac to the surface. For unknown reasons some dogs produce a thick or dry material from the sac lining which makes passage of the material through the narrow ducts impossible.

There is no age or sex predisposition to anal sac pathology. Uncommon in large breeds, infections and impactions are often experienced by small breeds such as Toy and Miniature Poodles, Chihuahuas, and Lhasa Apsos. Cocker Spaniels, Basset Hounds, and Beagles rank high on the list of breeds affected by anal sac difficulties.

Some health care workers believe feeding a diet rich in fiber aids in emptying the sacs. The pressure of the firm stool against the colon wall near the anus may help to express the anal sac contents. Dogs that have an existing problem such as infection or obstructed ducts, though, probably won’t respond to dietary changes; modifying the diet with more or less fiber yields inconsistent benefits. As a practitioner for over 35 years I have seldom seen a change of diet have any beneficial impact on the frequency of anal sac problems."


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## magicre

well, in bubba's case, he has narrow everything.....so why not anal glands...?

increase bone?


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## VizslaMama

magicre said:


> how was he on herring oil?
> 
> and do you feed grass fed/grass finished proteins? if so, then don't worry about omega 3.


He certainly didn't get red swollen eyes, or an itchy head, and his rear end didn't seem to bother him. So for now, I do have a bit of the herring oil, so I will use it. Once it is gone, I may just buy more, just so I have it. 

As for grass fed, I am not relying on his food to be enough. He gets mostly chicken and turkey which is grain fed. I have found pork meat and some beef heart, and trim at decent prices. I am not sure if the bulk of these animals diets is grass though. I am sure they eat grass, but not 100% if it is enough to eliminate the fish oil. I will have to ask the supplier. I just assumed grain fed. I find grass fed animals are more expensive. 

I am going to eliminate the salmon oil for now.

We just got new treats a few weeks ago. Ziwi Peak - Vension and Mussel. I've only fed them a few times since we got them, but who knows. He has had the Venison and Fish from this brand before but never the mussel. Maybe allergic to something in these ones. 

Is there a protein that has been known to be less reactive or maybe I should just start over and go back to the pre-made frozen from before, the stuff from what I think he did well on. It is expensive, but to figure out what is going on, it is worth every penny. 

Then after he has no more irritation, no scooting, or eye problems, I could introduce one new item from the supplier I buy from now, or add salmon oil, or give those treats as long as I stick to adding only one item. If I do this, and I don't see a sudden reaction, should I continue for a week or more, just incase the reaction was a slow progressing one? Then if that item shows no signs, eliminate and add something else?

Would an allergy test help? 

I know nothing about allergies in dogs, but I do want to get to the bottom if this. I don't want to assume he is prone to gland issues. I really think this is diet related, but then again I am not a doctor. 

Purebreds!!!!! Mutts are soo much easier to manage. All of our past dogs were mutts and they were never sick, could eat roadkill that was rotten, eat corn, bread, anything and they all lived to be over 16yrs old. LOL


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## VizslaMama

magicre said:


> increase bone?


Copper gets plent bone : ) Ive had to limit him, to only a few meals of chicken backs or turkey necks because his poops get too hard. Like most people, I figured hard poops would help the glands, but if there is something irritating them, I doubt much will help.


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## frogdog

VizslaMama, did you read the info I posted above...refers to diet and adding more fiber but doesn't always help tho. I suggest doing as much research as possible.


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## VizslaMama

Anal Sac Inflammation and Scooting, from Pet Health 101

I found this today about anal sacs, immflammation, and allergies.


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## frogdog

I can tell you this...when I use to express my dogs anal glands on a regular basis...I could tell when they were full or empty...putting your fingers at the 4 o'clock and 8 o'clock positions to express...they would either feel like nothing or grapes were under the skin. It is a very easy process but a smelly one. As long as I expressed them...we never had a problem. Also, he was on a premium kibble, then homemade and finally switched to premade raw...nothing changed regarding his anal glands.


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## VizslaMama

frogdog said:


> VizslaMama, did you read the info I posted above...refers to diet and adding more fiber but doesn't always help tho. I suggest doing as much research as possible.


Yes I did, sorry thought I said Thank you!!..... I have been doing more reasearch, over the last few days. Some how I feel like this is diet related. I just don't think this is going to be an on going problem. I could be wrong but that is my gut feeling. 

I am really considering going to go back to his original food from months ago for a while until he shows no signs of issues. Still raw, but frozen premade. He didn't have eye problems, as for the scooting I do remember scooting a bit, but I am wondering if it was a few treats we gave him. We varied them a lot. The scooting always stopped for a while and never got worse. Could be an allergy to an ingredient, this is causing his bum tenderness. : ( poor guy, such a trooper. 

Trial and error.


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## VizslaMama

frogdog said:


> putting your fingers at the 4 o'clock and 8 o'clock positions to express...they would either feel like nothing or grapes were under the skin.


Good to know, I will check him tonight. I'll do it in the tub just in case!!!


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## frogdog

VizslaMama said:


> Good to know, I will check him tonight. I'll do it in the tub just in case!!!


You basically just squeeze at the sides of his rectum...I know...then, liquid squirts out. I uses to hold a paper towel folded over several times but this was for a 22lb dog. You'll know what you're looking or feeling for once you do it several times.

FYI...I would make sure to hold something over his bottom or you may get juiced...ugh...LOL.


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## VizslaMama

frogdog said:


> you may get juiced...ugh...LOL.


OH BOY!!!! LOL paper towels or wipes it is.... ray: no juice squirting.


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## VizslaMama

Just want to give a big THANKS for everyone!! Even though I have no idea what is going on yet, I do feel much better about what I can try and a better sense of how to move forward to find the underlying cause, whether it be allergy or life long issue.

:clap2:


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## magicre

well, i love ziwipeak, except for this:
Lecithin, Chicory Inulin, Parsley, naturally preserved with mixed tocopherols

lecithin in commercial use, unless otherwise stated is sourced from soy.
mixed tocopherols, unless it says alpha or a-tocopherol is sourced from soy.

soy is a common allergen for dogs, which can contribute to goopy eyes...

don't know about anal glands, though.

i don't know, but i wouldn't think anal glands are indicative of an allergy.

i wish i could find the article i was reading, but it talks about the oversupplementation of ourselves and our dogs and cats...

that we would do better with less.

i'm actually trying that out with their organs because that's the source of fat soluble vitamins and those get stored, not excreted...

plus, even the kelp i'm feeding is not fed daily....we are feeding it twice a week now.

so yeah, trial and error.


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