# The Beginning



## Gally (Jan 28, 2012)

So we're doing it, we're going to take the plunge. When Galahad's kibble runs out today we will be switching to raw tomorrow morning.

We have two weeks worth of chicken portioned out in our freezer. Currently that consists of chicken necks (with the entire spine attached but not the rib cage), chicken backs, quarters and some miscellaneous breast meat and leftovers from the whole chicken we cut up. We already removed the fat/skin from the first four days worth of food and can adjust the rest from there. I think we need to get some more meaty pieces of chicken to add in as needed and then get some turkey necks for whenever he's ready for that. After the initial boney phase what cuts of chicken and turkey do you buy to up the meat to bone ratio? I've seen good prices for turkey drumsticks so I guess I could just cut the meat off the bone. Obviously boneless pieces will be more expensive so do you just buy bone in and divide it up as needed?

We plan to follow the prey model raw guide for switching as best we can. Slow and steady. How to Get Started | Prey Model Raw

We invested in some better kitchen knives to make portioning a little easier. We also got some good food containers that are stackable, freezer and dishwasher safe and are pretty much a perfect size for two days worth of food. I think we will be picking up a new kitchen scale as well since ours is a little dubious in accuracy and some freezer bags.


Some basic facts about us:
- Galahad (Gally for short) is a 12 month old, male, neutered, Pembroke Welsh Corgi. He weighs 23.5 lbs and we expect him to grow to 25-27 lbs over the next year based on his parents weights. He is very food motivated and has yet to turn down any food offered to him so hopefully that holds true.
-My partner and I live in an small 600 sq ft apartment with no room for a separate freezer yet (though I'm trying to figure that one out!). We can fit about two months worth of Gally's meat in our current freezer once portioned out and maybe a bit more in the original package.
-We live in Vancouver, Canada and the meat prices here are on the high end compared to what I've read from some of the American forum members. Supermarket boneless chicken breast can easily run $9+/lb just to give you an idea. We payed about $1.50/lb to $2/lb for the chicken we have so far.

Meat Sources:
- Our major meat source right now is T&T supermarket (large Asian chain store) which has a great selection of meats, cuts and organs and some amazing sales so I am always checking their flyers. We will be getting a lot of our chicken, turkey, fish and organ here. They also carry organic/hormone free meat for better prices than I have found elsewhere http://www.tnt-supermarket.com/en/
- There is an online raw pet food store that delivers but they sell mostly premade raw. They do have green tripe though which will be hard to find otherwise and whole chickens and turkey pieces for decent prices as well as some more interesting things like elk neck. Wild at Heart!, Raw food for Pets
- A little more expensive but to add some variety there is also a local raw pet store that sells some of the more exotic proteins if we feel like splurging one day. Vancouver Raw Pet Food For Cats And Dogs - Green Tripe, Organic Supplements And Treats


I will try to keep this thread updated with our progress and probably several questions as we go forward. Any words of encouragement, tips or advice are all greatly appreciated.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

WOW! you are prepared! I am impressed.

Only two things I will mention - if you get some kitchen shears rather than knives it will be alot easier. I didn't get shears for about six months and was amazed at the difference.

Also, white meat chicken is more expensive and less nutritious for dogs. The only time I ever feed it is when I buy whole chickens on sale.

Good luck. It seems to me you are all set - much more prepared than I ever was!!


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## Gally (Jan 28, 2012)

Kitchen shears! I knew there was something else I wanted to get. I think I will need to visit the specialty kitchen store, the places I've been to either didn't have any or they didn't look to be very good quality. I didn't know much about meat before starting this journey so we never had any great kitchen tools. Are these what I should be looking for? Shears, Detachable


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

yes, those are them and not a bad price - I found some at the grocery store that were cheap so I got a couple of them. I think the more expensive ones last longer but I've been fine with the ones I have.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Sounds like you're a star student of PMR...well prepared! I like it :thumb: 

I would recommend also going through and reading all the "sticky" threads here in the raw section because there's TONS of information in there that isn't on PMR website....I know, I know....I gotta get better about getting info on there! 

Keep us updated as well! Even on the good stuff. Its always nice to hear how dogs are progressing with raw :wink: 

Oh, and don't be alarmed when you find yourself scouring the earth for any and all possible meat sources out there....among us raw feeders thats pretty dang normal. Welcome to raw!


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## kathylcsw (Jul 31, 2011)

Gally said:


> Kitchen shears! I knew there was something else I wanted to get. I think I will need to visit the specialty kitchen store, the places I've been to either didn't have any or they didn't look to be very good quality. I didn't know much about meat before starting this journey so we never had any great kitchen tools. Are these what I should be looking for? Shears, Detachable


I bought a pair of poultry shears from Pampered Chef (not sure if you can get their stuff in Canada) for less than $30. They are a raw feeders best friend and have mostly made knives obsolete. Good luck as you and Galahad start this journey.

Here is the link to order online
Professional Shears | Buy Quality Kitchenware at PamperedChef.com


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## Gally (Jan 28, 2012)

Thank you for the welcome and the words of wisdom. I think I have read all the stickies here but now that this is really happening it would probably be a good time to go through them again. I particularly enjoyed the "Is It Normal?" FAQ as I am a worry wort and I need to know all the possibilities of what may happen going in!

What an amazing looking pair of shears those are Kathy! I think I may invest in a nice pair especially since my SO is already obsessed with meat cutting after just one day of preparing chicken!


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## Gally (Jan 28, 2012)

Gally enjoyed his first raw meal this morning of chicken neck/spine. He wasn't sure what to make of it at first. He licked it for 10 minutes clearly enjoying it but not sure what to do with it. Once he figured it out he carefully chewed his way through it. It took him about 40 minutes all together. He seemed really satisfied and happy chewing away on it like it was one of his prized bullysticks that he loves. I suspect he wont take as long on his dinner now that he knows what he's doing.

I think we will need to buy a mat or towel for him to eat on specifically.


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## Gally (Jan 28, 2012)

So he hasn't pooped since before his breakfast (about 10 hours ago). That's pretty normal though right? He used to poop about 4-5 times a day even on high quality kibble. 

Going to go ahead with his dinner and maybe take some pictures if I can.


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## creek817 (Feb 18, 2012)

Gally said:


> So he hasn't pooped since before his breakfast (about 10 hours ago). That's pretty normal though right? He used to poop about 4-5 times a day even on high quality kibble.
> 
> Going to go ahead with his dinner and maybe take some pictures if I can.


Don't worry yet - I'm amazed by how much less my dog poops on raw than he did on kibble. In fact, that was initially why I switched him. When I got him, I couldn't believe how much he pooped, and I started googling to figure out why, and came across raw. =D


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

welcome to raw...you're getting some great advice. i love how prepared you are.

i love corgis, too. how does your corgi do in a six hundred square foot apartment?


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## Gally (Jan 28, 2012)

I am amazed at how calm I am actually. Thought I would be stressing out for sure. I guess just knowing it's the best thing for him and him looking enthusiastic as he chomped away makes it not so stressful. I think xellil said one of her dogs didn't poop for 4 days or something after starting raw so I wont stress over that for at least another day XD

He ate his dinner much faster but still chewed it well. Took about 10 minutes this time. He was really excited when we headed to his new eating spot again.


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## Gally (Jan 28, 2012)

He does well usually. Had a couple issues recently as he seems to be going through his second fear period. But he gets to go to work with us and will be going to doggy daycare a couple times a week in a couple months when SO changes jobs. 

And a little update. He pooped. Was firm and a little smaller than normal. A good first day I think.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

i'm glad things are going well.....very excited for you.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

the reason i ask...is we have a corgi mix..and she is older now. i wondered how you got your corgi's exercise in and do you have to do anything special for their herding need?


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Yay! Glad things are going well, and a poop has appeared!


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## Gally (Jan 28, 2012)

We definitely have to make sure he gets his exercise. We try to get him 2 hours of fast paced walking a day (usually to and from work) plus lots of play and training. We are surrounded by parks here so we're not at a loss for places to walk. Sometimes we take him to the enclosed basketball/tennis court to run around and we just started taking him to an off leash dog beach. I think we're lucky that it is so dog friendly here. He comes to the office with us and can go on public transit in his carrier so we can take him pretty much anywhere.

Oh and we are starting agility next month I have a feeling he will have a blast at that.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

Gally said:


> We definitely have to make sure he gets his exercise. We try to get him 2 hours of fast paced walking a day (usually to and from work) plus lots of play and training. We are surrounded by parks here so we're not at a loss for places to walk. Sometimes we take him to the enclosed basketball/tennis court to run around and we just started taking him to an off leash dog beach. I think we're lucky that it is so dog friendly here. He comes to the office with us and can go on public transit in his carrier so we can take him pretty much anywhere.
> 
> Oh and we are starting agility next month I have a feeling he will have a blast at that.


sounds like a wonderful life for this corgi. 

and now raw? heaven.


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## Gally (Jan 28, 2012)

Yep. Living with a herding breeding in an apartment is definitely doable if you put some extra thought and time into it. Now that he is coming out of his fear period we can up the exercise again. He decided for a couple weeks that the park across from our apartment was the worst place ever. Oh well it seems to be mostly behind us now. 

Another poop this morning, small, firm and a little crumbly so I guess he's digesting it well. How many days of poop like this did you all wait before adding a little more meat? We have backs and necks packaged for a week and then adding in some quarters next week.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

if his poop is crumbly tomorrow, add in an ounce of meat....little bits at a time.


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## Gally (Jan 28, 2012)

Thanks magicre. We have some random meat scraps from the whole chicken we cut up plus the quarters so will add in a little slowly. I wasn't sure if it would be best to leave him on just backs/necks for the full week. I guess each dog is different though.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

it's always a guideline that we use.....not a carve in stone kind of thing, ya know?

this is your beginning of know thy dog and i think you are really in tune with your dog.

yes, in some ways, dogs are different.

my older girl needs more bone than my younger boy....

it takes about a year to fully transition a dog, so you'll have plenty of time to get to know your dog...

in the beginning, they are adapting and their digestive enzymes have to go through the biggest change so it takes a bit for them to get that gut flora to where it needs to be.

some days, it will be crumbly and you add a little boneless and some days it gets looser so you add bone.

the two things i would carve in stone are these:

1. don't go fast. take your time. better for the dog.
2. don't overfeed. in the beginning less is more.

beyond that, it's all guideline....


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## Gally (Jan 28, 2012)

At what point can we introduce duck? I found an amazing sale on whole ducks and would like to get a couple but not if they will be clogging up our freezer for a long time since we can only store so much right now. And is there anything special to know about feeding duck?


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

i always thought duck would be something that could be the next great thing after turkey. after all, it's fowl.

i was wrong. LOL

duck is a game bird, whilst turkey, unless wild caught...and chicken are farmed animals...so wholly different.

i'd wait until you've intro'd everything....duck is pretty fatty too....so whilst duck necks and duck in general is a great protein to feed, game is something i would intro last...after beef and organs....


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## Gally (Jan 28, 2012)

Good to know thank you. I will just wait for the next time it comes on sale. 

Oh and we are heading to a turkey farm on Saturday to buy some right from the source. I am very excited. Right now planning on buying necks, backs, maybe wings? Any other cuts of turkey that would be good? the drumsticks look way too big for Gally. I guess we could potentially get a whole one if we chopped it up right away but it seems to be cheaper to buy the part individually.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

why not buy the whole turkey? 

you guys eat the breast and the parts you like....and give gally the rest. nothing tastes finer than a turkey carcass....

and you can try gally on the drums.....they are a little denser than other parts of the turkey, but could be a nice workout, as long as the weights are right......gally is just starting out.


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## Gally (Jan 28, 2012)

The main reason I don't want whole turkeys is the price. I also forget that not all turkeys are huge as I am used to the giant ones we get for thanksgiving so perhaps we can find some better sized ones that wont take up all the room in our little freezer. The drumsticks I see in the store here are HUGE they would be enough for Gally's whole day but we prefer to do two meals especially right now. If they had smaller ones at the farm I would definitely get some though. 

It is cheaper to buy backs, wings, drums and necks then to buy the whole turkey. The prices are:
Backs - 2.13/lb
Necks - 3.45/lb
Wings - 2.36/lb
Drums - 2.36/lb
Bone in Breast - 7.68/lb
Bone in Thigh - 6.89/lb
Legs- 5.67/lb
Organs - 3.63/lb
Fresh
Whole Grade A Turkey - 4.29/lb
Whole Utility Grade Turkey - 3.99/lb
Frozen 
Whole Grade A Turkey - 4.09/lb
Whole Utility Grade Turkey -3.79/lb

These are the ones I'm looking at for the most part. They are a little pricey but cheaper than what I can get in the store right now and better quality. The turkeys are grain fed and antibiotic free.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

i think you'd probably get a bigger bang for your human / dog buck to buy a whole one....but that's just me....

if you're only buying them for gally, i can see buying backs, necks, wings, drums...even if gally can't eat the drums, the meat on them should be great for a boneless meal.

you're not ready for organs yet, or hearts...so you can pass on those since you don't have much room. organs and heart and gizzards are for a little later, i think..not much later, but a little later.

that seems expensive for grain fed....maybe find somewhere to buy necks and wait until thanksgiving to get better prices?


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## Gally (Jan 28, 2012)

It's a little expensive but meat prices are kind of crazy here anyway. A couple thanksgivings ago turkey prices went crazy, we ended up paying something like $6/lb for just your standard grocery store turkey. We aren't really shopping for ourselves, might get one breast for ourselves and one of their specialty items as they sell a lot of premade/marinated things as well. We don't eat much turkey except for the holidays so it would probably just sit in the freezer for a year or be fed to the dog anyway.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

ANd don't buy the white meat like the breasts. DArk meat is more nutritious and white meat is more expensive.

Oh, unless you want to eat the breast. I wouldn't feed it to the dog, though.


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## Gally (Jan 28, 2012)

The breast is for us 

Backs, wings, drums and necks for the dog.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

sounds like a plan.


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## Gally (Jan 28, 2012)

So today we are moving on to feeding a back in the morning and a leg quarter in the evening to start upping the meat content. Poops have been great if not a little crumbly so I'm sure the extra meat will help with that. I am thinking we will leave half the skin on to start and if that goes well in a couple days he can have all the skin left on. We got a great score on chicken drumsticks which should be a good size for him. If we alternate that with the turkey we pick up this weekend should keep the feeding costs down (wont be starting turkey for another week).

He has always loved his food but he has been so happy this past week. I know I mentioned this in the behavior thread but he has been calmer and more confident as well. We have made great progress with his fear issues this week, he is almost back to where he was before the incident that started this and is actually better than before in some ways.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

i do so love hearing this.

i know my little fearful pug progressed more quickly once he was full on raw....and you are so calm about this, i can't help but think that has much to do with the progression.


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## Gally (Jan 28, 2012)

Oooh think I found a source for beef heart which is one thing I hadn't seen yet. This source is in our neighbourhood too so should be convenient and I hear they have good prices. Can't believe I never noticed it before. I know we're a ways off from beef but it's never too early to plan these things XD

Thanks for all your support so far everyone. Seeing all of your happy healthy dogs helps me know that I am on the right path.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

if you have room, then why not....but you're nowhere near yet..

but finding the source...that's awesome. 

especially if it's an ongoing one.


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## Gally (Jan 28, 2012)

Not buying beef anything yet just excited to find a good source  Place has been around for years so hopefully they aren't going anywhere. Going to take a walk over tomorrow maybe just to check out their stock.

Got a great deal on turkey from the farm. They were having a sale so we got 10% anything frozen plus 5% off for buying in bulk. Brought the cost down to around $2/lb for all the dog's stuff.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

well, i know i'm smiling. 

i live vicariously through others....success


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## Gally (Jan 28, 2012)

Just a small update:

Gally is eating a chicken quarter and a back a day, with skin/fat on. His poops are great, good firm consistency without being crumbly and gradually getting smaller. If we continue with this progress I think we will be introducing turkey next week as per the PMR guide. 

In other news the in-laws are coming into town this weekend. They know we are feeding raw and are fairly supportive since they know we take very good care of Gally but of course hearing about raw and actually seeing a dog eat raw are completely different things. Should be interesting to see their reaction.


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## Gally (Jan 28, 2012)

Made a new raw contact through my craigslist ad. She might be dropping off some scrap meat for us this evening and has hunter and farmer contacts so she will be sharing any large scores with us. Very excited about the possibility of some wild caught meat in the fall.

ETA: I think I'm going to need another freezer!


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

I am jealous! You've barely started and have more resources than me


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## Gally (Jan 28, 2012)

I am feeling very lucky right now. I am definitely going to need a freezer just for the dog! I just didn't think I would get to this point this fast haha. Oh well I'm hooked and so is Gally.

We got a box full of free beef which Gally wont be ready for for a while but hey it's free... She had another three giant boxes she said we could pick from too but we don't have the room yet unfortunately! 

I will probably post some pics when we thaw it to repackage so you guys can tell me what you think will be suitable for Gally. We already tossed a couple small bone shards. It's all scraps from a cow that was slaughtered today so it's mostly random extra bits. Looks like there are some ribs, some fatty meat scraps and some other random bones with meat, hard to tell whats what with my uneducated eyes. 

I am totally amazed by all her contacts, she basically doesn't pay anything to feed her dogs anymore besides gas money to go pick everything ups. She said she gave away close to 1,000 lbs of moose meat last fall because she obviously didn't have room for all of it in her freezer. Hopefully we will be all set up with at least one extra freezer by this fall. Who knew meat could be this exciting...


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

My goodness. you don't live in Texas do you?


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## Gally (Jan 28, 2012)

Sorry nope. Vancouver Canada. I wish I could share


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Gally said:


> Sorry nope. Vancouver Canada. I wish I could share


Well, with the moose and all, i figured it wasn't really close to us .. but i had to ask  - not many moose running around down here.


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## Gally (Jan 28, 2012)

Well if there is one thing I've learned with this raw sourcing, it can't hurt to ask!


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

Gally said:


> Sorry nope. Vancouver Canada. I wish I could share


hey now, i'll meet you half way...i'm only three and a half hours way from you 

sounds like a great score.


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## angelbears (Jun 9, 2011)

Gally, I have had the biggest grin while reading your thread. Finding meat is addictive. Sunday mornings I leave out early to go scout out meat. My partner tells the fur kids, "mom's going hunting". Very happy that things are going so good for ya'll.


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## Gally (Jan 28, 2012)

So we intro'd turkey this week. Went well. Going to up the meat to bone ratio this week again as the poops are getting crumbly. I can't decide if we should do pork or fish next. I can get herring very cheap and probably some sardines as well. Pork seems to fairly expensive at the moment so I guess that might be our swaying factor right now.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

Gally said:


> So we intro'd turkey this week. Went well. Going to up the meat to bone ratio this week again as the poops are getting crumbly. I can't decide if we should do pork or fish next. I can get herring very cheap and probably some sardines as well. Pork seems to fairly expensive at the moment so I guess that might be our swaying factor right now.


i think we did pork next. others did fish. 

glad to hear gally is doing well.


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## Gally (Jan 28, 2012)

So we decided to do fish next. Picked up a bag of mackerel to start and see how he liked them. He had about a 1/4 of one for the first time today and ate it like a champ. He seemed to love it and gobbled it up first before his chicken.

We also portioned out his meals for the next of 2 1/2 weeks with a rotation of chicken, turkey and fish. Chopped up some half chickens and hacked some big turkey drumsticks up and with some backs. Was actually kind of fun lol.


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## creek817 (Feb 18, 2012)

It's kind of ridiculous how much fun chopping up raw meat and stuff can be, isn't it? I thoroughly enjoy it!

Glad he is doing so well!


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

ah, the entry into 'it's kind of fun'.....

and then it goes into full blast addiction.

glad you guys are transitioning so smoothly.


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