# label reading and Chicken Soup FTS as an example...



## kevin bradley (Aug 9, 2009)

Alright, someone help me read labels better. WHY, when I look at a label like Chicken Soup for the Soul...and the food is LOADED on the ingredient list with good meat content...does the food only have 24% protein? I mean, look at this list of ingredients, which I have to admit appears pretty stellar --and yet the food seems lacking in overall protein levels. 

Someone walk me thru this please. thanks

Chicken Soup Adult Ingredients:
Chicken, turkey, chicken meal, turkey meal, whole grain brown rice, whole grain white rice, oatmeal, potatoes, cracked pearled barley, millet, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), duck, salmon, egg product, flaxseed, natural chicken flavor, kelp, carrots, peas, apples, dried skim milk, cranberry powder, rosemary extract, parsley flake, potassium chloride, salt, choline chloride, dried chicory root, vitamin E supplement, iron proteinate, zinc proteinate, copper proteinate, ferrous sulfate, zinc sulfate, copper sulfate, potassium iodide, thiamine mononitrate, manganese proteinate, manganous oxide, ascorbic acid, vitamin A supplement, biotin, calcium pantothenate, manganese sulfate, sodium selenite, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), vitamin B12 supplement, riboflavin, vitamin D supplement, folic acid. 

Chicken Soup Adult Light Guaranteed Analysis:
Crude Protein minimum 24.0% 
Crude Fat minimum 14.0% 
Crude Fiber maximum 3.0% 
Moisture maximum 10.0% 
Sodium maximum 0.3% 
Vitamin E minimum 300 IU/kg 
Selenium minimum 0.4 mg/kb 
Omega 6* minimum 2.2% 
Omega 3* minimum 0.4%


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Because ingredients are listed by weight PRIOR to processing. So all the moisture is lost from the fresh turkey and chicken so those two ingredients are actually don't equal much in the final product.


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## kevin bradley (Aug 9, 2009)

yeah, I know that Meal is a "truer" representation of meat content, Nat....but I guess I'm still confused...this food has both...Meal, Meat, Fish...in both Meal and Plain form....just looks pretty meat heavy. 

And yet its protein content just isn't very impressive at all.


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## kevin bradley (Aug 9, 2009)

here's a great example....

Orijen. A WHOPPING 40% protein in their food. But a similar deal...real Chicken as the first ingredient, a "meal" as their 2nd and 3rd ingredients. 

Orijen Adult Ingredients:
Boneless chicken, chicken meal, turkey meal, russet potato, boneless pacific salmon (a natural source of DHA and EPA), herring meal, sweet potato, peas, boneless lake whitefish, boneless northern walleye, chicken fat (naturally preserved with vitamin E and citric acid), chicken liver, salmon meal, boneless turkey, fresh whole eggs, boneless herring, sun-cured alfalfa, salmon oil, chicory root, dehydrated organic kelp, pumpkin, carrots, spinach, turnip greens, apples, cranberries, saskatoon berries, black currants, choline chloride, psyllium, licorice root, angelica root, fenugreek, marigold flowers, sweet fennel, peppermint leaf, chamomile flowers, dandelion, summer savory, rosemary, sea salt, vitamin supplements (vitamin A, vitamin D3, vitamin E, niacin, vitamin C, thiamine mononitrate, riboflavin, vitamin B5, vitamin B6, folic acid, biotin, vitamin B12), mineral supplements (zinc proteinate, iron proteinate, manganese proteinate, copper proteinate, selenium), dried Lactobacillus acidophilus, dried Enterococcus faecium fermentation product. 

Orijen Adult Guaranteed Analysis:
Crude Protein (min.) ................... 40 %
Crude Fat (min.) ........................ 16 %
Crude Fiber (max.) .................... 2.5 %
Moisture (max.) ......................... 10 %
Calcium (min./max.) ............. 1.5/1.7 %
Phosphorus (min./max.) ........ 1.2/1.4 %
* Omega-6 (min.) ..................... 3.0 %
* Omega-3 (min.) ..................... 1.1 %
DHA/EPA ............................ 0.6/0.3 %
* Carbohydrate (NFE) ................. 20 %
* Glucosamine (min.) .......... 1200 mg/kg
* Chondroitin (min.) ............. 900 mg/kg
* Microorganisms ............. 120 M cfu/kg


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

Because there is a *LOT* of rice, oatmeal and potatoes.


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## kevin bradley (Aug 9, 2009)

RawFedDogs said:


> Because there is a *LOT* of rice, oatmeal and potatoes.



yep, thats kind of what I figured. They must find some way to put a couple meat ingredients first and then load it up w/ RICE and whatever comes after. 

Great :frown:


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

You've got to remember that a lot of the protein in dog food isn't animal based protein. I would say a huge portion of the protein in grain free foods is actually from potatoes. Which is not necessarily a good thing...


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## kevin bradley (Aug 9, 2009)

REALLY? Wow, I didn't even know Potatoes had any protein. Thought they were all carbs.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Oh, they are mostly carbs. But there is some protein there too, usually less than 10%. But there is also protein in rice.


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## buddy97 (Mar 29, 2010)

danemama08 said:


> I would say a huge portion of the protein in grain free foods is actually from potatoes. Which is not necessarily a good thing...


there is no way the higher protein foods are getting a large portion of their protien from potatoes. even canidae stated 80% of the protein comes from animal sources.

id say most of the protein in EVO, orijen, instinct and many others is from animal sources.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

buddy97 said:


> there is no way the higher protein foods are getting a large portion of their protien from potatoes. even canidae stated 80% of the protein comes from animal sources.
> 
> id say most of the protein in EVO, orijen, instinct and many others is from animal sources.


I would love to see actual data for that. I would actually be happy to know I'm wrong on this!


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## buddy97 (Mar 29, 2010)

danemama08 said:


> I would love to see actual data for that. I would actually be happy to know I'm wrong on this!


im not sure what data you are looking for.

a company stating that 80% of their products protein comes from meat or fish isnt good enough? or a statement that 70% of a product is meat product? in either case, that leaves little room for potatoes to make up much of the protein at all. 

i just dont see any high protein grainless foods on the market where there is any indication potatoes play a significant role in protein content at all.

now, if we are talking about Natural Balance LID's, then obviously potatoes play a major role (and those are low protein foods anyway).


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

I guess a company saying that isn't enough for me to believe it...they can say pretty much anything about their food as marketing since there is no regulation on what they can claim. I guess I'm hard to please LOL


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## ubershann (Jul 29, 2010)

danemama08 said:


> I guess a company saying that isn't enough for me to believe it...they can say pretty much anything about their food as marketing since there is no regulation on what they can claim. I guess I'm hard to please LOL


What do you mean there is no regulation on what they can claim?


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Well...there isn't. There's AAFCO but they do not regulate anything. Foods are not tested or regulated by the FDA to guarantee what the contents are. Unless things have changed?


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## ubershann (Jul 29, 2010)

danemama08 said:


> Well...there isn't. There's AAFCO but they do not regulate anything. Foods are not tested or regulated by the FDA to guarantee what the contents are. Unless things have changed?


I don't know if things have changed, but I know there is regulation on what can be put on packages. I was just reading and article today that talked about AAFCO disallowing companies to put "human-grade" on the packages because it's misleading. But they can still use the term in their ads, so maybe that's where the grey area lies. 

I don't know about FDA testing. Guess I'll add that to my ever-expanding list of research subjects! :wink: 

It's been such a slow day at work I've spent part of it just looking up nutrition related stuff. But it's nice when someone comes in with a problem or wanting something better than their current food and I can actually give them information rather than just tossing samples and shrugging my shoulders like the kids at Petco (minus the samples). Then again, it helps that we stock good quality foods in the store to start off with :biggrin:


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## GermanSheperdlover (Nov 15, 2009)

What some people don't realize that in this case, it is all the ingredients that are before the first fat that make up the majority of this product. So you have 8 ingredients that are named grain or potatoes. Their really isn't nearly as much meat in this product as they lead you to believe. In fact I believe their is only about 30% meat, *at best*. In fact California Natural has more meat that this product. Keep in mind the Turkey and Chicken move waaaay down the list.

Chicken, turkey, chicken meal, turkey meal, whole grain brown rice, whole grain white rice, oatmeal, potatoes, cracked pearled barley, millet, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols),

So really it goes
Chicken meal, turkey meal, whole grain brown rice, whole grain white rice, oatmeal, potatoes, cracked pearled barley,CHICKEN, TURKEY, millet, chicken fat


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## ubershann (Jul 29, 2010)

I don't know if this should be put in its own thread, but I'll ask here and if it needs to move let me know. 

Are there meats that lose less during the cooking process? I know chicken is 70-80% water, but how much do other meats lose during processing? As far as I know, chicken is one of the highest ones. 

Hope this makes sense. I'm writing quickly because it's closing time and I'm hoping to catch the dog park with some light left :smile:


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## GermanSheperdlover (Nov 15, 2009)

ubershann said:


> I don't know if this should be put in its own thread, but I'll ask here and if it needs to move let me know.
> 
> Are there meats that lose less during the cooking process? I know chicken is 70-80% water, but how much do other meats lose during processing? As far as I know, chicken is one of the highest ones.
> 
> Hope this makes sense. I'm writing quickly because it's closing time and I'm hoping to catch the dog park with some light left :smile:


They well never tell ya and it is impossible to really know, because we have no idea what quality or how much of any meat that they are really using. I look at the manufacture and if they use their own facility as a big factor. The minimum it well fall is 3 ingredients, beyond that it is really a educated guess. Fish is going to loss as much if not more than chicken. I doubt any lose 70%, I feel it is more like 30-50 depending on the manufacture. Companies like purna and P & G are gonna just flat lie, where as a company like Champion is most likely a little more truthful.


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## ubershann (Jul 29, 2010)

GermanSheperdlover said:


> They well never tell ya and it is impossible to really know, because we have no idea what quality or how much of any meat that they are really using.


Why would this be specific to the quality of the meat or how much they use? I just mean the meats in general, whether it's for dog food or anything else. I don't see how 3 pounds of chicken would lose more or less water than 30 pounds. I'm wondering if beef has less moisture to start with, or lamb, turkey, etc. 

Ex: If I were to make jerky I don't see how it would make a difference if I bought it from the highest quality store or a discount store. In the end it's dehydrated. Same goes for weight. If I make 1 pound of jerky it would still end up with the same moisture content in the end as if I made 20 pounds.



> I doubt any lose 70%, I feel it is more like 30-50 depending on the manufacture.


I'm not following. If they use a meat that is 70% moisture and then dehydrate it, removing the moisture, how are they only removing 30-50% of the moisture? It would still be wet at that point and not dehydrated. I know there could still be some moisture, but if it only loses 30% of the moisture that leaves it with 40%? Doesn't make sense to me


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