# obedience class collar question



## bridget246 (Oct 26, 2011)

Taking my second level of obedience class. Not really sure what collar to use. If I use the prong the class will be a bore because we aren't covering anything that I haven't already worked with Bridget. If I use the buckle collar she gets distracted. A lot of less distracted than she use to be but maybe not enough focus to pass the class. Which says a lot about me and my timing. 

I wish we could allow the dogs to sniff each other before class for a few minutes. Then I could use the buckle collar without a problem. Going to try to get the class early and see if others are willing to let our dogs sniff. I don't understand why this isn't part of the class. 

To prong or not to prong. That is the question.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Our trainer never let the dogs interact, either. I did understand why because there were some dogs in there that were very grouchy, and he didn't want a dogfight. 

But, before the class alot of folks with friendly dogs met outside to let the dogs visit.


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## PeanutsMommy (Dec 7, 2008)

our school does not train or work with dogs interacting. I am thankful for that because my dog is DA. Though I work really hard for him to learn to ignore the other dogs given his breed I do not expect for him to be friends with the other dogs but I do want him to learn to ignore other dogs. In our school we work with greeting a friendly stranger with a dog, the dogs are in sit postions ignoring each other. we also work on passing other dogs on sidewalk and passing thru crowds with dogs. that is plenty enough socialization for us.


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## hmbutler (Aug 4, 2011)

I love the classes we have, they are big on dog socialisation. Basically, the dogs interact the whole class (unless there are any issues or any of the dogs are DA, in which case they wouldnt be able to interact like the rest do). Our trainer says to go where the dogs want to go and let them sniff and say hello to all the dogs while she is talking, but when we are doing the activities, there will be times when we train them to leave other dogs alone. I like it because the dogs enjoy themselves. Duke hated the obedience class I went to that didnt allow dogs to interact, he loves this one coz he gets to have fun with the other dogs as well as learn new things.

As for the collar, perhaps not to prong, because you said you've already covered everything in the past so it'll be easy. Perhaps getting bridget to pay attention and follow instructions when wearing a normal collar can be the challenge you set yourself?


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## bridget246 (Oct 26, 2011)

PeanutsMommy said:


> our school does not train or work with dogs interacting. I am thankful for that because my dog is DA. Though I work really hard for him to learn to ignore the other dogs given his breed I do not expect for him to be friends with the other dogs but I do want him to learn to ignore other dogs. In our school we work with greeting a friendly stranger with a dog, the dogs are in sit postions ignoring each other. we also work on passing other dogs on sidewalk and passing thru crowds with dogs. that is plenty enough socialization for us.


Sounds to me like the good canine citizen test. Which is fine given the place and situation. But Bridget and the other dog usually want to meet. So during the non training times I want them to get that chance to say hello while the humans use stand positions ignoring each other and only allowed to show a little curiosity in the other human. 

I'm going to guess you have a Pit Bull and that is what PB means? I don't agree with them not being dog friendly but that is only my opinion. 

What is a DA?


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## eternalstudent (Jul 22, 2010)

DA is dog aggressive.

Personally I would go for the not prong - have you thought of using and intermediate collar either a check or half check just to refocus.

If the class is easy with a prong then it suggests to me a good time to try something else.

I deliberately go to two completely different classes, one which is strict about no dog to dog interaction- their belief is that if dogs are good at ignoring other dogs and just letting them do what ever means your dog will be easier to handle in public.

the second allows a fair amount of dog interaction and off lead work with play time at the end. Now this is great but you have to be really vigilant as you suddenly let off 16 puppies of various ages into the centre of a hall .

It used to be run outside in a park and it was a lot easier then as the dogs where not constantly distracting one another and it felt less like a melee


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## Jesse (Oct 23, 2010)

I would go with the no prong. In my obedience classes we are only allowed to use flat collars or harnesses. We also have a small interaction at the start of the class when the dogs can meet, then we go to our spots and the class begins. I think since you did well in your first class, now its time to step it up a notch and work on getting your dog to focus on you with no prong collar.


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## Makovach (Jan 24, 2012)

I go to classes that the Dog club I am in holds. I've been going for 7years now. I've used everything from a prong, to a chain, to a matingale, and just a buckle collar. 

Out of all of the collars, I LOVE the martingale. It doesn't give a harsh correction if they pull or are not paying attention. And (with my dogs atleast) just the sound of the chain gets their attention back on track. My dogs know when they get their martingales on, its business time, not play time. We are there to do the task at hand, not play and sniff around. Its time to be serious. How ever, when I put their buckle collar back on, they know they are free to do as they please (with in reason). Usualy on a buckle collar they dont have to stay by my side, they are allowed to sniff, and while on leash they have to leave people and other animals alone. 

Our classes are eight weeks. We dont work with interactions. After class, the dogs that are not DA get to run in the barn and play as the "untimate reward". Dogs that are DA are welcome to stay so we can work with the agression.


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## Maxy24 (Mar 5, 2011)

If your dog has already learned everything in the class then perhaps your main goal should be working on good focus without needing a prong. It sounds like the prong has been a band-aid, perhaps it's time to train him to have some focus instead.


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## committed2excellence (May 2, 2011)

You have an 8 week basic obedience class or is there something else involved? Also, excluding a collar that a dog wears to show in say conformation, the way a dog acts should not be determined by what is around his neck. That is the definition of a crutch. Obedience is obedience.



Makovach said:


> I go to classes that the Dog club I am in holds. I've been going for 7years now. I've used everything from a prong, to a chain, to a matingale, and just a buckle collar.
> 
> Out of all of the collars, I LOVE the martingale. It doesn't give a harsh correction if they pull or are not paying attention. And (with my dogs atleast) just the sound of the chain gets their attention back on track. My dogs know when they get their martingales on, its business time, not play time. We are there to do the task at hand, not play and sniff around. Its time to be serious. How ever, when I put their buckle collar back on, they know they are free to do as they please (with in reason). Usualy on a buckle collar they dont have to stay by my side, they are allowed to sniff, and while on leash they have to leave people and other animals alone.
> 
> Our classes are eight weeks. We dont work with interactions. After class, the dogs that are not DA get to run in the barn and play as the "untimate reward". Dogs that are DA are welcome to stay so we can work with the agression.


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## Makovach (Jan 24, 2012)

committed2excellence said:


> You have an 8 week basic obedience class or is there something else involved? Also, excluding a collar that a dog wears to show in say conformation, the way a dog acts should not be determined by what is around his neck. That is the definition of a crutch. Obedience is obedience.


they listen the same on lead as they do off lead. And They listen on both (all) types of collars. I don't see it as a crutch. Its more of what i do to make them relize what i want. they will listen the same on a buckle collar, chain, or martingale. but on different collars I make them behave differently. But if im training and only have a buckle collar they will listen just the same. 

Its eight weeks obedience. nothing else.


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## committed2excellence (May 2, 2011)

Interesting. That's a lot of time for basic considering professional trainers usually finish basic obedience in about 20 sessions. At that point, a dog under my care would definitely pass a CGC and be ready for a Rally title and possibly a CD or sub novice run. May be a money thing. Who knows


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## lauren43 (Feb 6, 2011)

I think keeping dogs separate is important in obedience. I don't want to show up to class every week and have my dog think its play time. Avery still struggles around other dogs, he thinks they all want to play. In Avery's case, if he is on leash and we greet another dog, he is leash reactive. So I appreciate the fact that no dogs interact during class...off leash is a completely different story but Avery can be "too much" for some dogs, so he has to be supervised closely, I just don't feel obedience is the place necessarily for socialization.

The collar should not matter, you should be able to train on any collar with success. We recently found out Avery goes in to "work" mode when his leash is on, so now I am working him without the leash as often as possible.


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## committed2excellence (May 2, 2011)

I agree. Dog interaction with dogs that don't live with you after basic socialization has occurred follows the same line of thinking that people who believe in the value of dog parks follow. You are your dog's entertainment and outlets for fun and reenforcement. Nothing else in needed. It may be cute, but it isn't needed



lauren43 said:


> I think keeping dogs separate is important in obedience. I don't want to show up to class every week and have my dog think its play time. Avery still struggles around other dogs, he thinks they all want to play. In Avery's case, if he is on leash and we greet another dog, he is leash reactive. So I appreciate the fact that no dogs interact during class...off leash is a completely different story but Avery can be "too much" for some dogs, so he has to be supervised closely, I just don't feel obedience is the place necessarily for socialization.
> 
> The collar should not matter, you should be able to train on any collar with success. We recently found out Avery goes in to "work" mode when his leash is on, so now I am working him without the leash as often as possible.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

I loved my obedience classes where they didn't let dogs interact. I had a dog that was way, way too reactive and it was the reason I went there in the first place. Not being able to interact taught him what the proper response was when around other dogs.

the people who owned "doodles" of various kinds were always sneaking into the corner to let their dogs play with each other, though 

But the majority of the class had dogs they didn't want messing around with other dogs. 

It was such a relief to find a trainer who actually understood my dog's problem and how to work with it - I had been to a couple where the dogs were off-leash from the first, learning to "touch" or whatever crap they were doing that never worked and not being stopped from chasing around with each other.


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## bridget246 (Oct 26, 2011)

committed2excellence said:


> Interesting. That's a lot of time for basic considering professional trainers usually finish basic obedience in about 20 sessions. At that point, a dog under my care would definitely pass a CGC and be ready for a Rally title and possibly a CD or sub novice run. May be a money thing. Who knows


20 sessions? If put that way where 1 week on each session then dogs could be ready for it in 15 weeks from the club I joined. 8 weeks of basic, 7 weeks of advance basic which gets you to the GCG. With 1 session each week that would be 15 sessions total. Rather or not you get there probably depends on how much the trainer is willing to put in. My club is 100 dollars for an entire year so the class time doesn't matter. I've been told there is a low chance to skip the course I'm in altogether. Today we went through all of the CGC group work off leash with success. Might have been a one day thing but it worked today. I even worked around a few dogs I didn't let her meet until later on. 

So here is my understanding of what I'm experiencing. On leash with normal collar she is highly distracted. Both off leash and prong has given me awesome control with Bridget. This is leading me to believe that I might need to get a second buckle collar to work with. That way she knows when that collar goes on it is time to work. Before I thought the prong was working the magic for me.


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## leilaquinn (Sep 7, 2011)

bridget246 said:


> Sounds to me like the good canine citizen test. Which is fine given the place and situation. But Bridget and the other dog usually want to meet. So during the non training times I want them to get that chance to say hello while the humans use stand positions ignoring each other and only allowed to show a little curiosity in the other human.
> 
> I'm going to guess you have a Pit Bull and that is what PB means? I don't agree with them not being dog friendly but that is only my opinion.
> 
> What is a DA?


I have an intensely dog social pit bull (maybe a mix, shelter guy, surrendered with papers but who knows?) I am very cautious because who knows what might change and he would cause a lot of damage if he changed his mind. I LOVE having him interact with dogs who have shown tollerance for his rude exuberance, but i havespent time with quite a few pit bulls and more than half at least are just not great with other dogs, they almost seem to save all their love and tolerance for people only. My last pit bull tried to kill my mom's( and really mine since i was 15) 15 year old dog when he was only 7 months old, much like a border terrier might not do well with a pet hampster. All breeds have fun and annoying qualities, and there arelots of weirdos in every breed who ignore the standard, but there is average behavior for each breed, and dog on dohg social skills are not usually among the long list of great pit bull qualities.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

bridget246 said:


> So here is my understanding of what I'm experiencing. On leash with normal collar she is highly distracted. Both off leash and prong has given me awesome control with Bridget. This is leading me to believe that I might need to get a second buckle collar to work with. That way she knows when that collar goes on it is time to work. Before I thought the prong was working the magic for me.


Rebel is like that also, and i've decided it's just his nature. if he is on a leash or behind a barrier, he is highly reactive to other dogs. Put him in the same situation with no leash or fence, and he's not.


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## bridget246 (Oct 26, 2011)

leilaquinn said:


> I have an intensely dog social pit bull (maybe a mix, shelter guy, surrendered with papers but who knows?) I am very cautious because who knows what might change and he would cause a lot of damage if he changed his mind. I LOVE having him interact with dogs who have shown tollerance for his rude exuberance, but i havespent time with quite a few pit bulls and more than half at least are just not great with other dogs, they almost seem to save all their love and tolerance for people only. My last pit bull tried to kill my mom's( and really mine since i was 15) 15 year old dog when he was only 7 months old, much like a border terrier might not do well with a pet hampster. All breeds have fun and annoying qualities, and there arelots of weirdos in every breed who ignore the standard, but there is average behavior for each breed, and dog on dohg social skills are not usually among the long list of great pit bull qualities.


So is dog social skills known with the German Shepard? I've read tons of stores of pit bulls attacking other dogs and people. I've seen pit bulls who were very social naturally. Bridget wasn't naturally social. I could have kept her that way. Ignored other dogs and minded our own space. But that isn't the direction I wanted to go in. So I worked tirelessly through each and every issue I could find and I keep it up as much as I possible can. Bridget doesn't even seem like the same dog she use to be when I brought her home. Makes me a little sad, I miss the old one with all the problems. 

I've never owned any pits. I've seen a few pit mixes, 3 actually, who I swear wouldn't hurt another dog if it tried to kill them. I know what the current belief is when it comes to pit bulls. I'm sure there is good reason why people feel that way. I've never owned any of them myself so anything I said on that issue is only opinion. I don't mean any harm for those who think otherwise especially if they have good reason for thinking so.



xellil said:


> Rebel is like that also, and i've decided it's just his nature. if he is on a leash or behind a barrier, he is highly reactive to other dogs. Put him in the same situation with no leash or fence, and he's not.


Your right on about the behind a barrier thing. I'm going to try to work with her in those situations and see what I can do without a prong on leash. The hardest part is patience. Sometimes Bridget needs a ton of it and if I can't give it to her I might as well hang it up and try it another time.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

you sound like you have alot more patience than me. Since I have fallen off training Rebel, I see so many of those old bad habits coming back and I am so mad at myself. 

It seems like there's a fine line between having a dog that makes other dog owners jealous, and a dog that makes me look like a fool half the time. And it's all my decision which one to have.


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## committed2excellence (May 2, 2011)

20 sessions in private. As in two or three a day. As in completion in a couple weeks. Working a dog once a week and not doin homework would be a nightmare. CGC should be obtained in ANYONE's basic obedience class or they are stealing from you. Also, why were they doing a CGC routine off leash? Advanced starts off leash. You have to be super consistent and get to the point where you are using the collar that you want to use. Example, in CGC you can't use a pinch. Make sure that you are patient with the dog and that your instructions are clear. They must understand that positive behaviors are required with any collar. 




bridget246 said:


> 20 sessions? If put that way where 1 week on each session then dogs could be ready for it in 15 weeks from the club I joined. 8 weeks of basic, 7 weeks of advance basic which gets you to the GCG. With 1 session each week that would be 15 sessions total. Rather or not you get there probably depends on how much the trainer is willing to put in. My club is 100 dollars for an entire year so the class time doesn't matter. I've been told there is a low chance to skip the course I'm in altogether. Today we went through all of the CGC group work off leash with success. Might have been a one day thing but it worked today. I even worked around a few dogs I didn't let her meet until later on.
> 
> So here is my understanding of what I'm experiencing. On leash with normal collar she is highly distracted. Both off leash and prong has given me awesome control with Bridget. This is leading me to believe that I might need to get a second buckle collar to work with. That way she knows when that collar goes on it is time to work. Before I thought the prong was working the magic for me.


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## leilaquinn (Sep 7, 2011)

I believe in and prefer dog friendly versions on breeds that are usually not so dog friendly, i just don't like it when dogs are villified for traits we as a spe ies have selected for, "mean" grayhounds that kill the pet rabit, or pit bulls who just don't like other dogs, because people bred for that trait.

Eta, one of Luigi's best dog friends, a gsd, wants to kill himwhen she is on leash, off leash she is just a pushy heardy bitch:wink:


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## committed2excellence (May 2, 2011)

Let me add, if you find yourself slipping and having to go back to your training collar, take a step back and go back to your fundamentals. If you care to send me a short video, I could isolate some things for you. When it's all said and done, work in a class is one thing. You need to be working towards the dog behaving throughout his or her life in everyday situations.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

committed2excellence said:


> 20 sessions in private. As in two or three a day. As in completion in a couple weeks. Working a dog once a week and not doin homework would be a nightmare. CGC should be obtained in ANYONE's basic obedience class or they are stealing from you. Also, why were they doing a CGC routine off leash? Advanced starts off leash. You have to be super consistent and get to the point where you are using the collar that you want to use. Example, in CGC you can't use a pinch. Make sure that you are patient with the dog and that your instructions are clear. They must understand that positive behaviors are required with any collar.


I really liked my trainer in novice class and he did it alot like you say.

however, once we were in advanced class I got bored really quickly, and so did my dog. In novice, we had a goal - CGC. In advanced, there didn't seem to be a goal. We jumped through hoola hoops, did alot of off leash stuff, etc - but where were we going? I finally just quit.

I thought we should all be training for something like an obedience competition, even between the dogs in the class.

And the agility classes - same thing. Totally unstructured, everyone just doing their own thing with little help from the trainers and no goal in mind. 

I think maybe I'll look for a trainer down here where we can actually see a goal coming out of advanced classes.


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## bridget246 (Oct 26, 2011)

I have a guy coming by Sunday afternoon to look at my collar training to see what he thinks. He claims he was an awesome trainer and has been doing it for many years. Then he went off and compared himself to the Dog Whisperer and compares that to what he does. He isn't charging for this so I'm still going to meet up with him on Sunday. I've heard rumors of people claiming to duplicate the Dog Whisperer.


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## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

bridget246 said:


> I have a guy coming by Sunday afternoon to look at my collar training to see what he thinks. He claims he was an awesome trainer and has been doing it for many years. Then he went off and compared himself to the Dog Whisperer and compares that to what he does. He isn't charging for this so I'm still going to meet up with him on Sunday. I've heard rumors of people claiming to duplicate the Dog Whisperer.


I wouldn't meet with anyone who thinks he is as great as "The Dog Whisperer" but that's another thread! Hahaha

I personally like to allow Buck to meet the other dogs in the class before each session. Just a quick sniff and hello and we're done. He is much calmer during the rest of the class and will hardly even glance at another dog. Ultimately I want him to be able to ignore other dogs completely while on leash (and eventually off leash if not at the dog park but he is a hound so any off leash training is going to take a while!). He has come a LONG way as far as meeting other dogs and ignoring them. The required quick sniff is NOTHING compared to how he used to whine and strain to reach another dog. I am happy with the meeting before class and am always working to getting him to ignore them. I don't plan to allow him to sniff at the beginning forever, obviously but it is a stepping stone. 

As far as your class, I think you should use the buckle collar. Maybe take the prong collar with you for the first couple of classes. Sometimes just knowing your backup is there helps. If it does, maybe once you see that you guys can do it without the prong collar you won't need to even take it anymore.


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