# Titer testing



## Huginn (Nov 21, 2011)

I was talking to a lady the other day about puppy health, and dog health in general. I told her that after the puppy shots were done I was planning on titer testing, rather than vaccinating. She told me that titer tests were really garbage and couldn't tell you anything. She doesn't advocate shots after a year and does her pups on an 8 week (if they are flying), 12 week and maybe 16 week (if the new owners want it) schedule and then rabies at a year. She agrees with the over vaccination and even with me on people flu shots being a waste of time. So, she isn't ignorant and she is a well educated woman. However, after doing some research I cannot find anything reliable saying negative things about titers. 
She told me that most things we vaccinate against, parvo and distemper, are puppy viruses and it's very rare for a dog to get them after a year. Is this true? It seems to me like it is, but I hate blindly following one person. We agreed that kennel cough is something I won't vaccinate for, as well as lepto. Kennel cough is like the common cold and from my reading there are so many different strains it's unlikely the vaccination actually prevents it. Lepto, well my parents have never vaccinated for it and our dogs (even being outside on our nine acres) have never come down with it. I was told (don't let him drink out of puddles and don't hang around with wild rats/squirrels). 
Basically, she told me "feed a healthy diet, improve the immune system and keep the home environment stress free."

Thoughts? I am very open to advice/criticism/correction. :smile:


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

I dont know the whole science behind them....but I will be having them done around the 1 year mark(when they are suppose to get their first year booster) and then, depending on the dog, Im thinking probably every 3-ish years after that. 
The biggest reason that I might end up having Rhett and Keeva's done every year is for "proof" for(well against I guess) shots, for if/when we want to compete with them, or take them to training!


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Titers measure the amount of antibodies that the immune system has. The problem is there's no research on what levels of antibodies actually provide immunity. This is why some people think they're a waste of money and some people only do Titers. 

I personally believe that first round of puppy shots 8-12-16 weeks and rabies at 1. Then start checking Titers a year later.


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## Huginn (Nov 21, 2011)

DaneMama said:


> Titers measure the amount of antibodies that the immune system has. The problem is there's no research on what levels of antibodies actually provide immunity. This is why some people think they're a waste of money and some people only do Titers.
> 
> I personally believe that first round of puppy shots 8-12-16 weeks and rabies at 1. Then start checking Titers a year later.


This was my plan, so I it's nice to have some reinforcement (in addition to Abi ^.^). I remembered learning about titers when I was in horse 4-H, so I was really confused on how it could be useless. But not having concrete research on the level of antibodies required makes a little more sense. I think this is still my plan thank you.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

I just had EXACTLY this same conversation with my vet.

No point in vaccinating for puppy diseases as an adult. Dogs are going to develop a natural immunity, and vaccines often last a lifetime.

titer tests are not useful. Dogs with high antibodies can get the disease, and dogs with low antibodies often don't after exposure. I wanted to do titers and she told me not to waste my money.

Bordatella is a joke. As is lepto.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

xellil said:


> I just had EXACTLY this same conversation with my vet.
> 
> No point in vaccinating for puppy diseases as an adult. Dogs are going to develop a natural immunity, and vaccines often last a lifetime.
> 
> ...


This is why titers are a "joke" to some people. There is no real meaning that antibodies are there, other than they are present...is there a strong enough immune response to keep the animal safe? It depends on the individual. There are no concrete numbers of how much of an immune response is enough to keep every dog safe. 

I personally think that a young, healthy dog that has titers done, and they show high levels of antibodies present are pretty much safe. An older dog or a immune compromised dog with the same level of antibodies as that young healthy dog? Maybe. 

Bordatella and lepto are a joke...complete waste of money.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

It's amazing both my dogs are six months overdue for vaccinations and neither one has dropped dead!


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## RachelsaurusRexU (Sep 4, 2010)

I recently found this and thought it was interesting Titers and Canine Vaccination Decisions


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

Right now, we vaccinate for DHPP at 8ish, 12ish, and 16ish weeks, and DO keep up on Rabies just because of the law, and if I ever get inspected (which the second I post puppies for sale, I probably will!) I don't want them to take my dogs away. 
I never do Bordatella.
I never vaccinate for anything else after 16 weeks. 

I keep going back and forth on considering doing less, I just can't seem to bring myself to do it. I've SEEN puppies die of Parvo, and I'm just scared of it.

I don't to titer tests, because like Natalie said each dog's immune system is different and without a concrete number on what is necessary, I don't care to know meaningless numbers. My dogs are still alive.


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

CorgiPaws said:


> Right now, we vaccinate for DHPP at 8ish, 12ish, and 16ish weeks, and DO keep up on Rabies just because of the law, and if I ever get inspected (which the second I post puppies for sale, I probably will!) I don't want them to take my dogs away.
> I never do Bordatella.
> I never vaccinate for anything else after 16 weeks.
> 
> *I keep going back and forth on considering doing less, I just can't seem to bring myself to do it. I've SEEN puppies die of Parvo, and I'm just scared of it*.


Ya, same here!!

I was just talking to Tiff about this...and although I would LOVE to be able to NOT do ANY vaccines on my pets after holding a puppy for its last time while it was dieing, and having my cousins have puppy, after puppy, after puppy die from it there just isnt any way that I can chance NOT having puppy shots done!


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## Huginn (Nov 21, 2011)

After having an adorable, sweet and innocent rottie pup die in my arms at the clinic I worked at, I will always do DHPP. I stress to much about things to not do it. I work at a petsmart so who knows what I track home with me and he will be going every where I can possibly take him. I'm not planning on bord and lept and really haven't from the beginning. I just don't see the point in those ones. Chances are I will do my vaccines at 12 weeks and 16 weeks (he'll have his 8 week when he arrives) and then at a year I will do titers. From there on, nothing. I have been doing a lot of reading on what I can find and most things recommend the titers at a year and then maybe later if your dog's immune system is compromised. 

Thanks for all of the advice everyone.


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## Rodeo (Sep 11, 2011)

I'll probably do a couple titers per dog but I really feel like most vaccines are just a waste. I hate that rabies is required here... I don't really want to ever give it more than once. I doubt titers are useless though.


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## Huginn (Nov 21, 2011)

Rabies is required here too. So obviously I will do that one, I just didnt mention it lol. 

From what I am reading (in this thread and on other websites/articles) the usefulness of titers is determined by the person. If it makes you feel better to get them, then get them, but don't expect them to be the end all be all to whether or not your dog may pick up a disease. However, vaccinations are not this way either. The lady that I was talking to the other day has only had one puppy ever get parvo and it was fully vaccinated. He had his 8, 12 and 16 week and went to a show at 7 or 8 months of age was under some stress and managed to end up with it. For me, I think the titers will make me feel better lol.


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## Donna Little (May 31, 2011)

I adopted out a puppy 15 months ago that had been born at my house. Mom was a Japanese Chin that was dumped in the pound 5 or 6 days before delivering. Obviously the owner knew she wasn't carrying purebred pups so didn't want to deal with it. Grrrrrr...
Anyhow, two of the pups were adopted by the same couple and I've boarded them at my house 2 times since and needless to say they are adorable little guys. Well, the owner called me day before yesterday to tell me that the little male, Sawyer, died after getting his vaccines. He was 18 months old. When they were at my house I gave them their distemper/parvo vaccs and then after being adopted she took them for their first rabies. She said Sawyer had a mild reaction and the vet said not to worry about it. That sometimes that happens.
When they went in the other day both dogs got a rabies and DHPP and within 10 minutes Sawyer was trembling and started to vomit. They were already in the car so turned around and went right back in. They got him stablized and asked to keep him for a few hours to monitor him. His owners were called 2 hours later and told he was crashing and they were doing CPR. When they arrived back at the clinic he was dead. Absolutely breaks my heart for that little dog as well as for his owners. I don't know if it was the rabies or the combination of the two but just so sad. I told her not to vaccinate Hannah, the little female, anymore. She comes to my house when they go out of town and they don't do the dog park thing so there's just no reason to risk it. Here's a picture of him from the last time he was at my house. I can't believe he's gone.


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## frogdog (Aug 10, 2011)

Donna that is a terrible sad story but not uncommon. 

My father loss 2 of his dogs in years past within 24hrs after having vaccinations. I, also, lost one of my rotties hours after having his yearly. 

Yogi was vaccinated as a pup and his rabies at 1yr. I am done from this point forward unless I have rabies administered.

My sweet dog "Little One" that I lost to cancer in '09 had not been vaccinated in prob over 6yrs. I will admit I did not have rabies shots given either and he passed away shy of 14yrs.

It is required to have rabies here like every where else in the US but if you do not live in the city limits it is not regulated. Otherwise, I do not have to turn in proof of rabies each yr. I know, I may get flack from other DFC members but at this point feel if I can avoid over vaccinating my dog...by golly I'm going to do it. Also, he stays in the house and is NEVER outside without one of us.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

I don't really care if people give me flack over not vaccinating my dogs. They are done getting them as far as I'm concerned. I'm undecided if I will do titers...if I do, it'll be years from now.


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## Huginn (Nov 21, 2011)

I hate to hear about dogs dying from vaccine reactions. That is so sad, I am so sorry. I can't believe the clinic gave two shots together to a known reactor. That is just double awful. 

If I wasn't going to be traveling with him so much I probably would not be doing rabies either. But I go back and forth across the state all of the time and I live in downtown. My mom's dogs have not been vaccinated for rabies, probably ever, so it's not something I feel necessary. I think I read somewhere that it has been over 20 years since a rabies case came about in Washington. I don't do my horse for the same reason and if we aren't showing or traveling he doesn't get any at all. I don't really feel like they are all that necessary. The only reason I as a person had shots was because the school required it. I have not had any since I was like 12, and I am still alive.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

That is a terrible story about Sawyer. Especially since he already reacted. Shame on that vet. 

I'm not getting any more vaccines except rabies. I won't ever have puppies so I won't have to worry about how to protect them when they are young. 

Like a lemming doing the dog food, until I started reading here I just ignorantly got my dogs vaccinated right on schedule.


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## Herzo (Feb 5, 2011)

Turtle hasn't had a rabies shot for going on 6 years. I have always given them every three years as is the law but when my last basset girls got about 8 or 9 I stopped. I don't like to give them when they get old. Turtles ears were so bad I wasn't about to give her one as her body was dealing with enough. I had a titers done last year while I was treating her ears and she had a 3 something. The vet didn't even know what it meant. She just told me that all she new was if you are going to fly them to Hawaii they have to have a 5. I asked on here about it and Bill just said they ether have an immunity or they don't. Well I guess she has some, she had a number. Can't decide if I am going to give her one again or not. I have been giving the distemper and parvo and what ever else they always have in the shots, every 3 years. I wish I could get them separate but I never any more do them at the time I get the Rabies. My vets think I'm nuts, I must be the only one around here that does this.

I am going to keep up on Rabies with Richter and Marlo because if something happened I don't want to have them take them away. We do have cases of rabies here. Just had one this summer where a dog was attacked by a skunk and they had to quarantine the dog because they didn't have a record of recent shots. No one could go in the trailer ( horse trailer ) he was being kept in but the vet for a long time. Can't remember if it was one month or longer. I don't think he ever got rabies and the skunk was confirmed with it.

Very sad about the little puppy. He's so cute.


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

We have had pups who were current on vaccaintions die of parvo (a whole litter), they were kibble fed. I have also had non vaccinated pups contract parvo. They all pulled through and I believe it is due to their healthier immune system now that their parents are on raw and non vacc and they are weaned onto raw. With in three days everyone was fine. I am not scared of parvo anymore. We haven't titred recently either.It has been 7 years since we have vaccinated


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## Donna Little (May 31, 2011)

I have vaccinated one dog recently and that was Sabrina. She'll be 2 in March and had no vaccine history when I got her. She was given DHPP at 5 months and then a week or so later she got a rabies. The only reason I went ahead and gave her the rabies booster was because of all the foxes we've had on the property. My other guys haven't been vaccinated in years but have a vaccine history. 
When I talked to Sawyer's mom she was so devastated and kept saying she should have known or done more research. I told her to please not blame herself because she was obeying the law for one thing, and listening to the advice of a "professional." Most people are going to listen to their vet's advice and not question it. I just hate that this happened....


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## Huginn (Nov 21, 2011)

That is an absolute horrible thing to happen. Definitely not her fault either, it just makes me so irritated when the vets do things wrong. I know there is human error, but still. I really wish there were more vets versed in alternative medicine.


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## Chocx2 (Nov 16, 2009)

I read that same article some time ago...

I just titered my five year old female the vet said based on the levels she will make her suggestion on when she needed another titer or vaccine.

She also said if you don't want to vaccinate then don't, that your choice. But in the state I live in you need a county license, if you are caught without you will get a fine.


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## Chocx2 (Nov 16, 2009)

My friend who is a vet bread and had a litter that caught parvo after vaccination. She also had a fully vaccinated dog die from parvo. After the company did research on the pups that died, it was found that the vaccine had failed. The company reimbursed her for the medical costs and loss of the animals. However this does not help emotionally when you have an attachment to the animal.

My male lab was a pup from that litter, he survived parvo. He had blood transfusion, plazma from the university, and lots of other meds. Three pups out of 10 survived.

They had a team watching over them I believe it was just a miracle. 

So you never know if vaccines work or not it is just a shot in the dark. I believe that if there is an outbreak of rabbies I would booster my animal for protection.

I just titered my five year old lab.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

I read somewhere recently that the only reason puppies get a series of shots instead of just one is to make sure one of the shots actually works. Not because they are building immunity gradually.


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## Chocx2 (Nov 16, 2009)

That wouldn't surprise me:tsk:


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