# Finding a new vet... bit of a read...



## Tobi

I'll start off by saying... it's 100 degrees and 85% humidity here, the AC broke in our car and it's a 30 min drive to the vet... :tsk:

So Tobi had a vet appointment today because his Toes were starting to break out in yeast AGAIN!! this time though, the nails were getting mucous at the base and turning a deep brown/black. Now, this is able to be scraped off, it isn't simply the nail turning colors because of genetics and thats how the dogs nails are supposed to be. They are painful, he winces when i mess with the nails to check on them.

We thought they were starting to clear up with raw, it seemed that wasn't the case, he had a cut on his neck that somehow became infected and the doc recommended a 7day schedule of antibiotics so the gf obliged and got em for him as she wanted to get it cleared up. We've also been feeding 2tbsp of braggs acv daily, as well as cleansing his paws in the evening to no avail. But... the 1 weeks worth of antibiotics seemed to have an effect, the nail began to grow nice and clear not all brown and nasty.eace: FINALLY!!! but then.... it started back and even heavier... we were stunned, so we made an apt to get it checked out.

We get there at 9am, we wait until 10, mind you the apt was for 9.... Nurse comes in, no doctors are available and one called out... cool... 30 min drive each way okay we'll reschedule for later. 2pm... We get in there, get roomed, the vet tech comes in... now... correct me if i'm wrong but they aren't supposed to do much besides get a general idea of the problem, take temp, etc??? This idiot starts to tell me that he's just licking them and that is what is turning them colors, and there is no infection. orly? thats funny because every person that i've talked to even an e-vet that i've sent pictures to has said it is a yeast infection... just shows what you know. I told her i didn't need her opinion and i would wait for the person that went to school for 8 years to diagnose my dog. she continued!!! by telling me about treatment options...opcorn: I started to get pissed off at this point as she was essentially telling me that i just needed to stop my dog from licking his paws... 

For those of you that haven't gotten it yet, i'm stuck to my dog, there isn't really a time when i'm not with him, I try to let this lady in on it and she's just not having it, well he's licking when you sleep, i said nope, he sleep damn near on me, i know when he's moving around because i wake up 8-10 times a night when he's shifting around. well he's just licking them whenever then you can't be around him all the time... I got a bit frank with her... "I #@%@ with the door open because he likes to visit me, when i shower he's got his head sticking in the shower curtain peeping on me, when i exercise he is right there with me, i'm unemployed, i've not got @#@# else to do!!! So don't tell me I'm not able to watch him all the time. and when i can't watch him i make sure he's so worn out that all he wants to do is sleep. I said, i'm not your average hick hillbilly that chains his dog up outside and doesn't see it for days at a time, trust me i know my dog! We can just agree to disagree, show the vet in when you get a chance.

So after all this... and her diagnosing Tobi's ailment that he's had for the last 6 months incorrectly The vet came in... I let her know that if something wasn't done or they recognize that there isn't a problem were finding a new vet, she said she'd be glad to give us a referral to a dermatologist, i said no i don't want a referral i want a complete change, i'll drive 2-3 hours for an appointment before i come back here if you guys don't do something about this... here is my complaint... every time i've mentioned it to them... this is the response i get... "i'm not overly concerned about it, wipe his paws down and keep them dry" Well pussy/mucousy feet concern me, i'd be at the doctor if my feet were messed up don't ask me to ignore it on something i love more dearly than anything on this planet lady. She said... well i see there is an infection and we'll certainly take care of it, but i've not seen Tobi for 6 months, it was another doctor, i said... you saw him last time we were here for his pads to make sure they were okay, and you weren't concerned about those either.

So she prescibed a pill 21 days worth, she also pulled up some stuff for allergy testing which if this doesn't work, we'll get it done and find out, but i'll be damned if i will give him shots on a weekly basis for allergies which she is suggesting. then she mentioned diet... LOL!! "he could be missing vital nutrients" I said what? corn? carrots? grains? I said I don't get me started on your crap kibbles you want to prescribe me because i will never feed anything but raw, you won't convince me otherwise don't waste your time, i'm sure i'm more versed in canine nutrition at this point than you are. well dogs can't readily process alot of the raw foods that people give... "10 thousand years of evolution would argue your point". It's not nutrition, i know that, there is no need for him to be a prescription kibble it isn't the problem. (mind you this isn't our normal vet she's out on maternity leave so were getting the scrubby leftovers.

We were checking out and she changes the prescription, she changed us to 2 100mg tablets 1 time daily, when she was going to give us 1 200mg tablet daily... is there a reason for this? i don't get it, same dose, and she isn't even intending on us spreading it out over the day... just once a day 2 tablets. The table in question is Cefpodoxime Proxetil 100mg.

I'm so pissed off, i can't even begin to tell you guys, i'm just on a rant, since we've gotten finished there... a nurse diagnosing and telling me there is nothing wrong with my dog, and then a doctor trying to touch on the raw nutrition point when she has no clue wtf she is talking about....

Oh... and the closes Holistic vet... 5 hrs away  Bowman Animal Hospital & Cat Clinic | Raleigh Veterinary Practice


and now for the pictures of my imaginary problem...

































Here on this one is the bottom of his pad, which is what i went in for about 2 weeks ago as his gait seems to be making his pads wear or build calous funny, and was simply wondering if there was anything i could do to maybe file the sides of it down so it doesn't cause other problems... never seen a dogs pads SO HARD.





























TL;DR: I'm pissed off because the first thing that gets blamed by the vet is nutrition, on top of it, the tech thinks she knows the diagnosis and begins to tell me there is no abnormality, or infection. Turns out, there is.... IMAGINE THAT.


Here is the link to my other thread that was about this... and at the end you can see it began to get better, but it coincided with the meds.
http://dogfoodchat.com/forum/dog-health-issues-question/8066-black-nail-beds.html


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## RachelsaurusRexU

Frustrating  

As you know, Romeo also has issues with yeast. In a lot of the information I've come across, it says that yeast often gets worse after a round of antibiotics. Vets will prescribe them to treat the infection, everything will look great for a while like it's clearing up, but shortly afterward the yeast will creep back in with a vengeance and often be worse than it initially was. Think that could be the case with Tobi?


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## Tobi

I very much think it was, this one said that maybe it will go away, and clear up with a FULL round of antibiotics she's hoping for that (probably because she doesn't want to see me again) and once it is mostly taken away it will be much easier to maintain with ACV stuff like that, she said most likely... it would be environmental grass/pollen etc, but i love how she threw in the diet :lol:
Edit: the one round was for a small infection on a cut on his neck from his collar as he pulls like a maniac when he's hanging out the window, only a 5 day antibiotic regimen. 

it's about 300$ for the testing so we will probably just save up a bit for it and then get it done but i'll be damned if he gets allergy shots if he's allergic to grass or something... i'll move to arizona.


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## RachelsaurusRexU

Geez Louise. Well, I don't think I'd do the second round of antibiotics if I were you. From all I've read, they do not cure yeast infections, only make them worse. Allergy testing seems like a huge waste, too. Even if it were some environmental allergy, which I bet it isn't, what can you do about it? 

I'd just continue with the bathing and ACV regimen, no antibiotics, and see what happens. That's just me, though.


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## sozzle

Sorry to hear about your poor Tobi. Hey can you utilise the holistic vet via phone consultation in conjunction with the pics? I would be mighty pissed off too, I am lucky in my town we have a vet school and about 10 vet practices all within 5 min drive of where I live but no holistic (which is my preference). Hey have a read up on colloidal silver, cheap and antiseptic, anti fungal etc, but I haven't tried it on my dog for anything before. You can put it in their food as well as apply topically.
Hope you get some answers/results.


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## MollyWoppy

Scuse my ignorance, but could something like, ahem, Monistat cream help? You know, yeast infections are yeast infections, no matter what part of the, um, body, they occur.
And, yes, poor Tobi, it looks painful, poor pup.


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## Tobi

well, we bought the antibiotics, i've read the same thing that if it doesn't cure it sometimes it can indeed make it worse rache... BUT i'm hoping that a FULL round may do something to get it in check a little and then start with some antifungal cream for athletes foot like mollywoppy is saying, I've read about coloidal silver, i even have 2 silver peices i could make my own actually :lol: i'm just afraid of using it on a dog, i've not found much info regarding using it on canines.

I feel horrible for letting it get this bad even though i've fought so hard for them to do something, i literally have had 11 apts for this very problem and they've not wanted to do anything or give me any treatment options until today when i finally freaked the hell out on them... i'm sure they hope i do find a new one before we have it checked back in 21 days.


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## funshine

How do you use ACV?
I think some thread here had a link to a some sort of "yeast infection treatment" with proper nutrition (remove carbs) and some ACV usage. I think this vet told to dip paws in raw diluted ACV using a good size bucket... Maybe you could try something like that if nothing else works.


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## DaneMama

Poor Tobi....

I know the vet tech said to wipe his paws down, and shrugged it off. This is just bad workmanship and isn't helpful. 

BUT, what I would do is keep those toes clean as best as possible. Use either Betadine or Chlorohexadine mixed with warm water 1:2 ratio (you don't need much- 1/2 cup per cleaning). Use a wash cloth and massage each toe nail bed gently. Try and scrape as much gunk off as possible. Repeat cleanings at least 3 times daily for 2 weeks. 

What I have found is that my dogs will get this nail bed funk every once in a while, sometimes its due to injury, other times its due to running around like wild women and sometimes I don't know what caused it. Either way, it starts out not that bad but then things like bacteria and yeast get into the compromised tissue and wreck havoc. Every time I notice their feet like this, I clean the heck out of their toe nails and it clears up with out drugs, creams or supplements. I haven't noticed it come back in at least six months. 

What kind of floors, surfaces, ground covers does he run/play on with regularity?


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## Tobi

funshine said:


> How do you use ACV?
> I think some thread here had a link to a some sort of "yeast infection treatment" with proper nutrition (remove carbs) and some ACV usage. I think this vet told to dip paws in raw diluted ACV using a good size bucket... Maybe you could try something like that if nothing else works.


We use it diluted 50/50 but i don't use it when he has cracks on his feet or when it is really bad because i've gotten it in my cuts before and it hurts!! so i don't want him to fear feet cleanings... we have a spray bottle with a mix in it sitting on our nightstand where we do feet cleanings when they are able to be done, we've done the ACV treatments for the last 2 months and it seems to help but it does burn him which bums me out. He also gets 2 tbs to drink with some beef blood every day.


DaneMama said:


> Poor Tobi....
> 
> I know the vet tech said to wipe his paws down, and shrugged it off. This is just bad workmanship and isn't helpful.
> 
> BUT, what I would do is keep those toes clean as best as possible. Use either Betadine or Chlorohexadine mixed with warm water 1:2 ratio (you don't need much- 1/2 cup per cleaning). Use a wash cloth and massage each toe nail bed gently. Try and scrape as much gunk off as possible. Repeat cleanings at least 3 times daily for 2 weeks.
> 
> What I have found is that my dogs will get this nail bed funk every once in a while, sometimes its due to injury, other times its due to running around like wild women and sometimes I don't know what caused it. Either way, it starts out not that bad but then things like bacteria and yeast get into the compromised tissue and wreck havoc. Every time I notice their feet like this, I clean the heck out of their toe nails and it clears up with out drugs, creams or supplements. I haven't noticed it come back in at least six months.
> 
> What kind of floors, surfaces, ground covers does he run/play on with regularity?


He is on linoleum in the kitchen/dining room, carpet in the rest of the house, grass/dirt outside, the yard isn't fantastic as we are just renting and i refuse to put 1k's into it to fix it up.. not my job. We do have a field with some clover in it and some tall grasses that he does romp around in every now and again, we also take im to the mountains to go hiking which is just a dirt/gravel path but about 90% of ti is dirt or wood paths.

I have alot of the Chlorohexadine solution still i'm glad you mentioned it, i'm going to do what you said and scrape it off to have a nice clean surface to work with do you think it will burn? i'll test it on myself just to be sure. We can't take the script back so i suppose we just run the course? it was 75$  

The tech was very unhelpful and treated me as if i didn't know my dog it was so frustrating... even my gf was like "you're just wasting your breath with him he won't listen" she didn't even take his temp, he looks forward to that every time! :lol:

I was going to ask you as well, what do you think about those callouses? they are starting to protrude sideways to the other pad if you can see it in the one photo, should i use a fingernail file just to keep the sideways movement in check? my vet isn't helpful because she wasn't "overly concerned about it " twice now.


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## Ania's Mommy

I wonder if those hard callouses on his pads are worts. Is that possible? 

Yes, Molly, I was going to suggest the same thing.


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## DaneMama

Tobi said:


> He is on linoleum in the kitchen/dining room, carpet in the rest of the house, grass/dirt outside, the yard isn't fantastic as we are just renting and i refuse to put 1k's into it to fix it up.. not my job. We do have a field with some clover in it and some tall grasses that he does romp around in every now and again, we also take im to the mountains to go hiking which is just a dirt/gravel path but about 90% of ti is dirt or wood paths.


Hmmm....none of that seems to be really abrasive. Do you notice it being worse after a good long hike in the mtns? Or a long romp at a park?



> I have alot of the Chlorohexadine solution still i'm glad you mentioned it, i'm going to do what you said and scrape it off to have a nice clean surface to work with do you think it will burn? i'll test it on myself just to be sure. We can't take the script back so i suppose we just run the course? it was 75$


Chlorohexadine doesn't burn, neither does Betadine. Do you know if its the solution? If it is....I wouldn't dilute it as much since its already diluted. Maybe 1:1 with warm water. 

You should definitely be able to return the script. They may only give you a credit....but thats better than nothing. 



> The tech was very unhelpful and treated me as if i didn't know my dog it was so frustrating... even my gf was like "you're just wasting your breath with him he won't listen" she didn't even take his temp, he looks forward to that every time! :lol:


Well, I never treat people that way. Even if they do seem to "imagine" their dogs having an issue. Its just rude and belittling to treat people like that. Of course I have to remind myself that not every one knows when their dog has a problem and not. Either way, maybe tell the vet to retrain their techs for customer service and just being plain polite....


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## DaneMama

Ania's Mommy said:


> I wonder if those hard callouses on his pads are worts. Is that possible?


Yes, they do look like warts to me as well.....and it is entirely possible.


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## Tobi

DaneMama said:


> Hmmm....none of that seems to be really abrasive. Do you notice it being worse after a good long hike in the mtns? Or a long romp at a park?


I've not noticed it getting any worse from any of the jonts we go on, even when we go do roadwork just a 3-4 mile quick walk he usually bounds around in the grass and stays off the concrete. it's so red that it's really hard to gauge worse from so bad ya know? 


DaneMama said:


> Chlorohexadine doesn't burn, neither does Betadine. Do you know if its the solution? If it is....I wouldn't dilute it as much since its already diluted. Maybe 1:1 with warm water.


yep, i've got it in my hand, she gave us the UNdiluted solution as it was 11$ and she said we would get more use out of it this way, she said to dilute it like to a very light blue to make it go a little further, only about 1/2 a cup of solution is all we got from them.


DaneMama said:


> You should definitely be able to return the script. They may only give you a credit....but thats better than nothing.


Do you honestly think we should skip the script? i'm hesitant as i just really want him to get better it pains me for him to be in this condition. or maybe just do the solution for a week and scrape it really good to see maybe a little bit of a result and then take it back?


DaneMama said:


> Yes, they do look like warts to me as well.....and it is entirely possible.


How do i know for sure? take better pics or no? i've looked for some pictures of warts on pup pads but i've not been able to find anything like his.


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## DaneMama

Give the meds but also do one heck of a good job keeping his toes clean. Do this for a long time and be diligent about it. 

It would be great to see more photos of the pads of his feet. Do they ever crack or break open? Tear or rip? Which toes have the wart like things (Front/Back/Right/Left)?


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## Tobi

He's never had any cracks or splits in the pads, they are just callousing really weird as you can see, (or warts) I admit i've picked at them a bit but i've not clipped anything or removed anything from them, i've been tempted to file them down where they are growing sideways with a fine nail file but i've just held out. They all have the wart like things, and as you can see they are mostly towards the center of his body as if his gait is toe'd out... i took pictures of how he stands, it's how he walks as well, sort of bull doggish (probably a genetic problem, but also "cat like stance" is breed standard so on his front pad only for the most part).


































little monster! he thinks he's so cute... he got a human chew toy for a few minutes while i tried to take pictures!


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## Tobi

Here is the Back 2. I'm not positive but it could be because of his gait, but i dunno...


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## DaneMama

Honestly they look like cutaneous growths or "horns" that are harmless....just look weird.


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## Tobi

They are super hard would it be cool if i did file it down where it's growing toward the other toe? His pads are HARD, as in rock hard i don't want to make them succeptable to damage in any way but just keep them in check a bit when i'm filing down his nails? ( i file his nails with a nail file not dremmel between trimmings).


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## DaneMama

It wouldn't hurt to file them down. Emmy has cutaneous growths on the top of her back toes, like a second toe nail. I keep them trimmed back and they don't bother her at all. Having rock hard pads shouldn't cause any issues at all, just means he has tough feet!


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## cprcheetah

Do you give him probiotics during/after antibiotics? That may help. Shellie was having issues with an ear infection that wouldn't go away, and that's what I started was Acidophillus, I gave it to her in between antibiotic dosages, so she got it at lunch time, I gave her 1/2 of one of the little tablets from Walmart. I really think it helped, as Antibiotics open them up for yeast.


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## Tobi

cprcheetah said:


> Do you give him probiotics during/after antibiotics? That may help. Shellie was having issues with an ear infection that wouldn't go away, and that's what I started was Acidophillus, I gave it to her in between antibiotic dosages, so she got it at lunch time, I gave her 1/2 of one of the little tablets from Walmart. I really think it helped, as Antibiotics open them up for yeast.


I don't, This is the first time that he's been given a full Schedule of antibiotics so i'm not really sure how it will do... i'm weary of trying too many things at the same time, as i do't want to mask one problem with another kinda thing... i'll do some research on this though and see about it, thank you for the idea


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## monkeys23

That looks really ouchy, poor guy.


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## magicre

MollyWoppy said:


> Scuse my ignorance, but could something like, ahem, Monistat cream help? You know, yeast infections are yeast infections, no matter what part of the, um, body, they occur.
> And, yes, poor Tobi, it looks painful, poor pup.


that's exactly what i was thinking...since an antibiotic will only be useful for bacterial infections and a yeast infection is not a bacteria....


monistat, soaks or rubdowns with apple cider vinegar...things like that....yes...

should not hurt your dog.....

but your vet, in this case, at least, is useless, especially if they don't even recognise you.

two of the articles i just read recommended acv in his water plus don't bathe as often.....they recommend getting a spray mist and using that....

but if this is yeast, treat it as yeast..and use human products. just sayin'.....i'm not a vet...apparently, yours isn't either LOL


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## mischiefgrrl

Tanis still gets the paw funk from time to time. His feet are VERY sensitive and I have to have the vet clip his nails every month. He won't let me touch him with the clippers. I would agree with rubbing some monistat into his feet or giving him an oral pro-biotic while he's on the antibiotics. The antibiotics are what started Tanis in his decline and it was a never ending battle. Raw fixed most of it for us, but you're already feeding Tobi that! If you're concerned with him biting his feet, a little Tea Tree oil rubbed in will not only relieve the pain, but also keep him from biting.


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## Roo

It appears I'm now having a similar issue with Lola, it started this winter before I fed her raw, just on one foot in between 2 toes. Vet said it was a cut that she licked a lot, it would clear up with antibiotics, then it worse again. He went digging but didn't find anything, she still is having problems licking that foot and now she's licking the other foot too. Last night I noticed her feet smelled just like corn chips, so I think she may have a yeast issue as well.

I know washing the area, drying it out with a hair dryer set to cool, and then wrapping the foot up so she can't lick it, really makes a big difference. My problem is I wasn't doing it long enough and it came back.

Since it seems to be getting worse, I was wondering why since she hasn't been on an antibiotic recently and on a raw diet, till it dawned on me she's not being fed antibiotic free raw meat and getting a few veggie/fruit treats. I'm wondering if the non antibiotic free meat could also be responsible for her colitis being better? I don't know how much of an impact the antibiotic meats have in terms of antibiotic exposure, maybe enough for yeast sensitive dog? I'm pretty sure Lola's yeast issues started way before the raw diet considering when ever she had a bad colitis episode the vet would put her on antibiotics. 

In any case I'm going to try giving her probiotics from whole foods, cleaning, drying, and wrapping her feet, maybe try some anti fungal cream, AVC, or GSE and possibly only feed antibiotic free meats for a couple months (even though that's gonna be terribly expensive). 

My husband and I both eat antibiotic free meats, mainly because I had a very scary toxic adverse reaction to a Flouroquinolone antibiotic. I had over 15 scary side effects and it took me over a year to recover from just taking 2 and 1/2 pills-I was lucky, although reactions like this are rare, some people have ended up in wheel chairs permanently from these commonly given antibiotics. 

Raw is much more affordable for the dogs if we feed them regular meat-but I may need to start talking to some antibiotic free farmers in my area and see if I can't make it more affordable somehow, it might be best for Lola.


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## magicre

roo, is she still getting fruits and veggies? that can upset the pH balance and cause yeast problems....so i would suggest stopping the fruits and veggies...

i'd use anti fungal cream, like lotrimin which is for fungal infections or try monistat which is for yeast infections....

maybe hold off on the probiotics for now....if anything you're trying to eliminate the problem not add another ingredient that could have some bearing on the problem...

try not to make too many changes at once, otherwise you'll not know what made it better....for now, i'd stop the fruits and veggies and any and all treats. let her keep eating what she's been eating. don't change that...

try the acv as an external along with either lotrimin or monistat, not both...and see if that helps...

if that doesn't help, then eliminate something else, but do it one at a time...

just as an aside....she had what vets call colitis from her previous diet....i'm guessing it was kibble...that just means her intestines were inflamed.....change to raw, voila! colitis is gone...might take some time, but it goes away...and every time the vet put her on antibiotics, he was giving her drugs that killed the good and the bad....so you're right about the antibiotics...

here, however, farmers can use a certain amount of antibiotics, but the fda, when they are in the mood, do watch pretty carefully....about overuse...


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## Tobi

magicre said:


> roo, is she still getting fruits and veggies? that can upset the pH balance and cause yeast problems....so i would suggest stopping the fruits and veggies...
> 
> i'd use anti fungal cream, like lotrimin which is for fungal infections or try monistat which is for yeast infections....
> 
> maybe hold off on the probiotics for now....if anything you're trying to eliminate the problem not add another ingredient that could have some bearing on the problem...
> 
> try not to make too many changes at once, otherwise you'll not know what made it better....for now, i'd stop the fruits and veggies and any and all treats. let her keep eating what she's been eating. don't change that...
> 
> try the acv as an external along with either lotrimin or monistat, not both...and see if that helps...
> 
> if that doesn't help, then eliminate something else, but do it one at a time...
> 
> just as an aside....she had what vets call colitis from her previous diet....i'm guessing it was kibble...that just means her intestines were inflamed.....change to raw, voila! colitis is gone...might take some time, but it goes away...and every time the vet put her on antibiotics, he was giving her drugs that killed the good and the bad....so you're right about the antibiotics...
> 
> here, however, farmers can use a certain amount of antibiotics, but the fda, when they are in the mood, do watch pretty carefully....about overuse...


This is why i'm holding off on the monistat and stuff, today is day 3 of antibiotics, and this other cleaner for his feets, the redness is already going down, i'm happy about that, hopefully the nastiness will start to fade as well... i'm keeping my fingers crossed i just want my boy to be able to walk around not being in pain


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## Roo

Magicre, the fruits and veggies, were only in the last two weeks because I was changing my diet and eating more, so they were getting a bite here and there as a snack- the yeast issue started long before that, but yes I'm sure the sugar in the fruit etc. only inflamed it.

Probiotics usually do help, but I know that it's possible to give too much and cause more of an issue, it can be a delicate balance. However If she's had this issue for awhile, she's probably going to need more than just anti fungal cream to fix it, she may need to be balanced internally, but I will take things slow. 

Oh I know the raw diet has helped with her colitis, I'm just wondering if the antibiotics in the meat could have also had an effect as well, like I said I'm not sure if it would be enough to matter or not.


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## magicre

tobi, what happens when the antibiotics stop? what antibiotic is it?


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## magicre

Roo said:


> Magicre, the fruits and veggies, were only in the last two weeks because I was changing my diet and eating more, so they were getting a bite here and there as a snack- the yeast issue started long before that, but yes I'm sure the sugar in the fruit etc. only inflamed it.
> 
> Probiotics usually do help, but I know that it's possible to give too much and cause more of an issue, it can be a delicate balance. However If she's had this issue for awhile, she's probably going to need more than just anti fungal cream to fix it, she may need to be balanced internally, but I will take things slow.
> 
> Oh I know the raw diet has helped with her colitis, I'm just wondering if the antibiotics in the meat could have also had an effect as well, like I said I'm not sure if it would be enough to matter or not.


i wouldn't so much be looking at the antibiotics in meat, i'd be looking at the grain the cow was fed before slaughter. if your dog has a sensitivity to corn or soy, then that could be your culprit for her....

so your idea of going to grass fed, grass finished food for her is a good idea to try...see if it makes a difference.


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## Tobi

magicre said:


> tobi, what happens when the antibiotics stop? what antibiotic is it?


I don't know what happens when they stop, this is the first full round we've gotten, we've had a smaller one but it was for a different issue and was only 5 days, were doing 21 days for this one to see if it will clear it up completely and hopefully move it out of his system. Thoughts on it were that the small dose worked, but didn't completely clear it, and it came back with a vengeance. The antibiotic is called Cefpodoxime Proxetil 100mg 2 pills daily.


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## magicre

Tobi said:


> I don't know what happens when they stop, this is the first full round we've gotten, we've had a smaller one but it was for a different issue and was only 5 days, were doing 21 days for this one to see if it will clear it up completely and hopefully move it out of his system. Thoughts on it were that the small dose worked, but didn't completely clear it, and it came back with a vengeance. The antibiotic is called Cefpodoxime Proxetil 100mg 2 pills daily.


so your vet is giving your dog an antibiotic designed to kill bacteria when it's been confirmed that he's got a yeast infection?

i'm wondering why he's not getting fluconazole or something for either yeast or fungus...which can be internal or topica....i don't get why tobi's on this drug...

Cefpodoxime Proxetil (Simplicef®) - Page 1


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## Tobi

i don't know  

I'm going to call another vet and see right now in fact, what they would recommend for such a thing and see why it would be recommended or if it wouldn't be.


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## magicre

i honestly don't know how to treat a dog. i'll say that right up front. and i'm sure that when it comes to drugs, vets would definitely know more than i, unless they are psychotropics....

but treating a yeast infection with a cephalosporin antibiotic, just doesn't seem logical and i'd love to hear the logic of it.....look, tobi, your vet could well be right....

but yeast infections are generally treated, at least in humans with yeast or fungal drugs, such as flucanozole...which i believe dogs can take...and a topical ointment....

there may even be some dietary concerns....treats...maybe not enough red meat or too much red meat....but something in the pH of your dog is off...and whilst he's prone to yeast infections....there has to be something that can restore the balance besides cephalosporin, in my opinion.


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## magicre

did the vet take a scraping and send it off to be biopsied to make sure it's yeast and not fungus?


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## Tobi

they did a scraping of his toes, NOT of his nails though... they just assume it was the same thing, it came back as yeast, they said "minor". They had us start using an antifungal rinse on his feet, and washing him with an antimocriobial shampoo, then it cleared up and she had us stop using it, which all happened within the same month as the antibiotics he was on for his infection on his neck (bad kitty scratch).

This last time they wouldn't do a scraping i requested they declined. she said without a doubt she knew what it was, even though without a doubt she'd not seen Tobi in 6 months, and she had. 

I know it is something with his PH but hell if i know what it could be, it happened before raw, it was happening after. he was on Blue before raw, and has been on raw for 3 months now.

he doesn't get many different treats, we've started using EVO small bites as training treats as it is far better than any treat we can get :lol: without a dehydrator.

I've stopped his ACV intake, as well as not been using the Antimicrobial shampoo's per the vet.

He drinks a LOT of water, he gets lots of red meats, heart, roasts, steaks, venison all parts, pork, etc... I'm just at a loss at what could be throwing off his PH... I can't get a hold of any of the vets around here as they are all closed today, so i'll make some calls tomorrow morning and get some other opinions on this medication.


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## SerenityFL

I would definitely get a second opinion and then, totally and completely find a new vet when this is all taken care of. If I ask for a biopsy, please do a biopsy. I'm the one paying, let it be done. 

And I cannot stand any Dr or Vet who dismisses my concerns. Look, I'm sure they've seen some things a thousand times...but some of them forget their "bedside manners" because the rest of us have not. At least ACT like you know who I am and ACT like you care as much as I do.

I got very lucky with my vet in Miami. I'm hoping I'll find one just as good up here. I don't know...he was pretty good.


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## magicre

> they did a scraping of his toes, NOT of his nails though... they just assume it was the same thing, it came back as yeast, they said "minor". They had us start using an antifungal rinse on his feet, and washing him with an antimocriobial shampoo, then it cleared up and she had us stop using it, which all happened within the same month as the antibiotics he was on for his infection on his neck (bad kitty scratch).


call them and get a copy of that report and then take it to another vet. if it got better doing what you did the first time, chances are it will get better again doing the same thing.

stop the evo treats as it has fruits and veggies in their formulas....sometimes alfalfa and other unnecessaries.......learn how to dehydrate...you have a redhead in disguise....sensitive skin and all that, prone to yeast infections....i would stick to a strict pmr diet..and do what cleared it up the first time.

AND. get another vet...yours is an idiot and a dismissive one at that....


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## whiteleo

That really is a crap deal for Tobi, Sorry! But if you have to give those antibiotics give him some tripe too as it has natural lactcbacillus acid?????. Hope it all works out for him.


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## Tobi

whiteleo said:


> That really is a crap deal for Tobi, Sorry! But if you have to give those antibiotics give him some tripe too as it has natural lactcbacillus acid?????. Hope it all works out for him.


Unfortunately there is NO place i can get it aside from the canned stuff... pure gold? brand iono i don't remember it, but that is the only green tripe i can get here, everybody says that they can't give it away, but they can't sell it either go go USDA...


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## 3Musketeers

Poor Tobi, it looks pretty painful. No idea what causes yeast/fungus, but if antibiotics make it worse then it doesn't make much sense, hmm... I too would look into finding a new vet, the vet assistant telling you you're just crazy imagining things isn't very nice or respectful.


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## whiteleo

You could find your own cattle farm and ask if they would let you have the tripe of one cow when they butcher! There are several people I know who do this and they rinse it in a big tub outside on their lawns then they cut it up and freeze it. It doesn't need to be ground up to be useful, whole smaller chunks still is a great chew for the jaws and teeth and it is still full of the good stuff.


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## Tobi

That's great advice Robin, I've called some of them I've ran across they all have it processed at a USDA facility so they don't get to keep their organs. which just so happens to be the place we buy them from! There are many around here, it's just a matter of finding them, as most i see usually only have 9-10 cows, i'll have to make up a flier!!


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## magicre

i keep looking at the pictures and i swear it looks like 'athlete's foot' to me.


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## DaneMama

magicre said:


> so your vet is giving your dog an antibiotic designed to kill bacteria when it's been confirmed that he's got a yeast infection?
> 
> i'm wondering why he's not getting fluconazole or something for either yeast or fungus...which can be internal or topica....i don't get why tobi's on this drug...
> 
> Cefpodoxime Proxetil (Simplicef®) - Page 1


Typically fungal infections cause enough damage to start a secondary bacterial infection. Which is probably their reasoning behind giving this antibiotic. Sometimes its enough to make the damaged tissue healthy enough to fend off the yeast problem as well. 

Are you cleaning his nails still with chlorohexadine?


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## Tobi

DaneMama said:


> Typically fungal infections cause enough damage to start a secondary bacterial infection. Which is probably their reasoning behind giving this antibiotic. Sometimes its enough to make the damaged tissue healthy enough to fend off the yeast problem as well.
> 
> Are you cleaning his nails still with chlorohexadine?


2-3 times per day, yes!

thanks for some insight behind why this would be given.


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## whiteleo

Tobi said:


> That's great advice Robin, I've called some of them I've ran across they all have it processed at a USDA facility so they don't get to keep their organs. which just so happens to be the place we buy them from! There are many around here, it's just a matter of finding them, as most i see usually only have 9-10 cows, i'll have to make up a flier!!


But I wouldn't call them, the best advise is to (if they are close by) go out and talk to them. People find it much easier to say no on the phone, but if you go in person and just say all I want is the stomach lining, nothing else.


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## SonyaBullyDog

Tobi's feet look just like Sonya's! She has the sideways hard growths as well as moist, raw, and pussy skin around the toenails, as well as the discolored base of the toenails! I showed it to my vet, he just said that it's no big deal and that it's related to her allergies. I asked him why they smell yeasty, he said well there may be some fungus and told us to use the stuff for human athlete's foot and bathe her in antifungal shampoo. I do notice though that when her allergies flare up, she is more likely to lick her feet, which then might make that a perfect environment for yeast (and bacteria, I'm guessing) to grow. And usually the feet get better after a round of hydroxyzine. If you figure out how to stop this, Sonya will be very thankful as well!


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## Tobi

SonyaBullyDog said:


> Tobi's feet look just like Sonya's! She has the sideways hard growths as well as moist, raw, and pussy skin around the toenails, as well as the discolored base of the toenails! I showed it to my vet, he just said that it's no big deal and that it's related to her allergies. I asked him why they smell yeasty, he said well there may be some fungus and told us to use the stuff for human athlete's foot and bathe her in antifungal shampoo. I do notice though that when her allergies flare up, she is more likely to lick her feet, which then might make that a perfect environment for yeast (and bacteria, I'm guessing) to grow. And usually the feet get better after a round of hydroxyzine. If you figure out how to stop this, Sonya will be very thankful as well!


I'll definitely keep informed on it, I know a lot of EBT's suffer this, I've even seen it in championed dog pictures!! it's so wired it's so prevalent in this breed!! But yet.... vets dismiss it as "allergies" no big deal... it drives me nuts! 

I'll do that about the Tripe, when we pass by some of them i'll just swing in and talk to them about it and check and make sure they don't do their own slaughtering.


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## Sian

How are Tobi's feet now? Has the yeast been cleared up? I would really be interested in hearing what you did to get rid of the yeast.


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## Tobi

Sian said:


> How are Tobi's feet now? Has the yeast been cleared up? I would really be interested in hearing what you did to get rid of the yeast.


It's not gone yet, it's about as bad as it is in the pictures... unfortunately nothing has really worked... BUT, at our new vets request he would like us to wait through the winter and see if it begins to get better, He thinks it may be a seasonal allergen and doesn't want to go the route of antibiotics again. We were doing Betadine soaks for well over a month every night for five minutes per foot as well, our next through the winter is to keep the nails clean (scraping them with a knife) and i'll start cleaning with a different solution, 1cup white vinegar, 1cup hydrogen peroxide, to one gallon of water, and soak that way through the winter... we'll see what happens i suppose.


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## Sian

Well, that' discouraging! But the new vet sounds promising.

My dog has the yeast problem but not the toenail gunk. I've been bathing her in Zymox which seems to help the itching quite a bit and I've been doing the same hydrogen/vinegar/water foot soak which has put a stop to the foot chewing. General itchiness is not gone enough, though, and there are a lot of little sores on feet legs and ears. I have an appointment with our vet on Monday and hope to get a skin test done and a thorough thyroid test.

Wishing you and Tobi the best!


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## KittyKat

I use colloidal silver on Piper... no more trips to the vet. She would get skin rashes after swimming, and little bumps too. It cleared it right up.

It was actually recommended to me at a dog show. :3

It's worth a shot in any case... but really you have to find out whats causing the yeast to break out in the first place. Antibiotics can cause it, so can chemicals.


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## magicre

colloidal silver...that sounds as if it could work.

but in looking at the pictures and then googling warts.....it surely looks like warts....

and i swear i remember natalie and jon giving vitamin c for warts....did i misremember?


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## Ania's Mommy

magicre said:


> colloidal silver...that sounds as if it could work.
> 
> but in looking at the pictures and then googling warts.....it surely looks like warts....
> 
> and i swear i remember natalie and jon giving vitamin c for warts....did i misremember?


It was for puppy mouth warts. Not sure if it would work in this case, but it's probably worth a shot.

http://dogfoodchat.com/forum/dog-health-issues-question/2531-puppy-mouth-warts.html 

http://dogfoodchat.com/forum/pictures/10036-poor-poor-braxton-2.html

(Side note, I can't see any of the icons to edit my response for some weird reason. So I had to just post the links all ugly-like. Sorry.)


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## Dude and Bucks Mamma

Tobi said:


> For those of you that haven't gotten it yet, i'm stuck to my dog, there isn't really a time when i'm not with him, I try to let this lady in on it and she's just not having it, well he's licking when you sleep, i said nope, he sleep damn near on me, i know when he's moving around because i wake up 8-10 times a night when he's shifting around. well he's just licking them whenever then you can't be around him all the time... I got a bit frank with her... "I #@%@ with the door open because he likes to visit me, when i shower he's got his head sticking in the shower curtain peeping on me, when i exercise he is right there with me, i'm unemployed, i've not got @#@# else to do!!! So don't tell me I'm not able to watch him all the time. and when i can't watch him i make sure he's so worn out that all he wants to do is sleep. I said, i'm not your average hick hillbilly that chains his dog up outside and doesn't see it for days at a time, trust me i know my dog! We can just agree to disagree, show the vet in when you get a chance.


This is me and Buck right here. EXACTLY. Since the day I brought him home, I have yet to pee, etc. without Buck offering canine assistance and, because I have to put the shampoo bottle on the edge of the tub to keep the shower curtain from sticking to my leg, I am constantly having it fall on my toes because Yahoo keeps sticking his head in the shower with me. When Nick is gone, he sleeps on the couch with me and when Nick is home and we are in bed, he sleeps on the blanket next to my side of the bed. When I go to the kitchen, he follows and sits with his toenails as close to the linoleum as he can get without actually touching it (they aren't allowed in the kitchen. It can't handle that many cooks!). 

I would be mighty pissed too if someone was telling me that Buck was doing something without me knowing. That dog doesn't lick his own crotch without me knowing!


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