# I've been slagged off for feeding raw!



## sozzle (May 18, 2011)

I belong to another site, not related specifically to dogs but a lifestyle/farming type of site where we can talk about all sorts of things and I made an enquiry re sourcing pork hearts and someone has replied to my post and this is what they said:

"Wake up. I have no idea what you are trying to achieve and I don't much care because you are doing none of us a favour.
Some people do not advocate freezing raw meat before feeding to dogs - in the case of sheep meat it is a legal requirement. It must be either frozen or cooked before feeding to dogs and that includes all offal. If you had to take your dogs to a hydatids strip you would understand why. Not a pleasant experience for the dog or the owner. We are technically hydatids free but we still have sheep measles which is why the legal boundary. Please follow it as hydatids and sheep measles in humans is also not a pleasant experience and does nothing for our export market.

I have spent most of my life breeding and rearing pigs and killing them. None of my dogs were ever fed raw 'human grade' pig meat or offal. It is not only frozen, it is also cooked before they get it. And when they do get it, it is only in small amounts. Pig meat along with chicken, are the two meats that are always to be cooked past the pink stage for humans. The same goes for your cats and dogs. Do it.
Beef is acceptable."

I would like to reply to this person even though I think I should ignore it because I think they won't ever change their thinking, which is fine, but don't want to cause an argument. I don't know the person and they live at the other end of the country to me anyway. I think they are of course misinformed and maybe 30 years ago people were concerned about these things? I have never heard the 'legal requirement' law, and who is going to enforce that? we don't live in a police state for goodness sake and I'm not going to start bloody cooking meat for my dog. So far I have been feeding my dog raw for nearly a year and he is in good health. Of course if I say that I will just be told I am irresponsible etc etc, which is fine, each to their own, but I am careful with what I feed my dog and most of it is human grade although some of it comes from pet stores that specialise in raw meat for dogs ie venison offcuts etc, green tripe, but I think I need to not have a knee jerk reaction and just think about it for a while. Any advice as to my reply would be great. Thanks.


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

Are you actually legally required to freeze sheep meat?


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

I've never heard of hydatids. it sounds something like trichinosis except they seem to grow in the organs rather than the meat.

Here's what this website says about it:


> Foodstuffs can be rendered safe by heating at 45c for 3 hours. Eggs survive storage in house hold deep freezer but lose infectivity after 3 days of freezing at -80 degrees c.


Hydatidosis of dogs- a dreadful zonotic disease

That does seem colder than a household freezer could get.

Also,


> 1. It is spread all over the world, the mediteranean area, Middle East. Indian subcontient, Africa, Australia and Central America.
> 2. Depends largely on dissemination of eggs by tapeworms carrier rural dogs and stray dogs
> 3. Inappropriate standard of meat inspection or practice of private slaughtering without mandatory meat inspection favours distribution
> 4. Pattern of transmission is dependent on the genetic variant of E.granulosus, prevailing in an endemic area.
> ...


It doesn't seem to be so much of a problem in the US, and might be a problem in your neck of the woods if the meat is not inspected. Seems to me unless you get your meat from uninspected farms you should be fine.


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## ciaBrysh (Dec 16, 2011)

You have to freeze sheep meat? I'm due to pick up some mutton on my trip up to CT at the end of next month...should I expect a problem?


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## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

Remember this thread? http://dogfoodchat.com/forum/raw-feeding/11788-hydatids.html
After reading this, I am very wary about mutton or lamb. I remember how going to the hydatids strips to get my dog dosed when I was a kid, so I understand how paranoid people are about it. Hydatids truly is a terrible disease.
So, I must admit that I've decided not to feed lamb to Mol, especially lamb offal, just to be on the safe side. Not that it's been a problem as lamb here is financially out of my reach, so no big deal.

However, that shop in Auckland that sells raw food for dogs & cats, you would think they'd be on the ball regarding hydatids, I mean, they must be inundated with questions about it. They do sell it however, Lamb including offal, which makes me feel a wee bit better.

Here is what they say in their FAQ

*What about hydatids and sheep measles?*
Historically dogs became infected with hydatids tapeworm by eating /scavenging on sheep carcasses found dead in the paddock/farm killed, NOT by eating raw meaty bones from the butcher - meat passed for human consumption poses no threat. NZ is now a hydatids free country, but because of the risk of reintroduction from imported live animals, MAF has maintained controls. The Raw Essentials range has all been frozen before feeding to dogs and cats.​Sheep measles are not a human health risk but are viewed as a quality defect in the meat. All sheep and goat meat should be frozen at -10 degrees or colder for at least seven days before feeding it to dogs. Your domestic freezer is easily this cold and likely to be colder.​

So, basically, I guess it's up to you. If a retail shop sells it, then you'd like to think they know what they are doing. 
And, to be honest, I wouldn't bother replying to the email you received, people like that aren't going to change their minds. They must be older as well, talking about the hydatids strips. Don't cause yourself any grief.


​


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## sozzle (May 18, 2011)

yes MollyWoppy, I just read that piece too on Raw Essentials site and was going to quote it too. I have and do feed raw lamb offal to Stanley, generally it's been frozen but not always if I've just bought a pack. Funnily enough my father in law who is a veterinary parasitologist professor has only said (regards my raw feeding which he doesn't do himself) make sure all bones are raw and freeze your chicken first before consumption. In fact he only buys frozen chicken for himself because he is worried about camphylobactor (I think). I'm not that paranoid and dog's chicken is mostly frozen because I buy in bulk but not always.
The offal I buy is all from supermarket but the funny thing is when cooking it (for us humans) they always recommend that you leave it pink in the middle for pate and for general eating. I do like liver but don't eat very often but I make sure I don't overcook it gets really tough. Kids won't eat it of course.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

that doesn't sound like anyone that would listen to anything you say.

sounds like the same narrow minded people who live here in the usa who still think trich is a problem with pork, salmonella with everything and the world will come to an end if you feed raw.

there are others like me who freeze things simply because i buy too much....but i've come home with lamb or goat or beef or whatever and that's what i felt like feeding. 

near as i can tell, my dogs are still alive and well and disease free.

'course, you could tell them about your knowledge which is probably more than mine, actually most definitely more than mine...and you could ask him/her to show you exactly where this law is...and how is it that you are not doing them any favours by feeding unfrozen, uncooked sheep, pork, etc....

and then you'll be met with defences...and hostility...

or you could say thank you for the information. i'll make sure i look into it. and then don't.


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## sozzle (May 18, 2011)

Actually I might just do nothing. I was fairly pissed off when I first read it - hence knee jerk reaction and we should always think about things before we say them etc etc.
Anyhow it then occurred to me to say, "bloody hell you sound just like my mother"! which of course might go down like a cup of cold sick even though she doesn't actually know my mother and then I thought I could blind her with the science of raw feeding and then well, I don't know if I can be bothered to be honest and shall just carry on my merry way, being irresponsible and feeding raw.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

sozzle said:


> Actually I might just do nothing. I was fairly pissed off when I first read it - hence knee jerk reaction and we should always think about things before we say them etc etc.
> Anyhow it then occurred to me to say, "bloody hell you sound just like my mother"! which of course might go down like a cup of cold sick even though she doesn't actually know my mother and then I thought I could blind her with the science of raw feeding and then well, I don't know if I can be bothered to be honest and shall just carry on my merry way, being irresponsible and feeding raw.


and you can always vent here.

i'm one who freezes most everything. i figure it's safer that way. and i have freezers. might as well use them.


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## ciaBrysh (Dec 16, 2011)

I freeze everythinggggg for a week before feeding it lol so you could say I'm a bit paranoid!


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## lauren43 (Feb 6, 2011)

I just bought lamb heart, not much of it, only ten lbs and I froze it...but this makes me a bit nervous, mostly because I never heard of hydatids


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

i've been feeding lamb hearts for two years. i freeze everything, so i don't worry.

i don't know how it is in new zealand and australia, but i would imagine they have pretty strict standards...

i get my goat from new zealand and the dogs are fine.

my next lamb will come from australia, probably...not this order but the next one.

i buy australian lamb and sometimes it's not frozen and i feed it to my dogs as i trim it for us.


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## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

I have fed a ton of lamb that I have never frozen to Buck. Some of it has been because I buy it all when it's on sale but not all of it has been frozen by me.

How worried should we be about hydatids in the US?


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

Dude and Bucks Mamma said:


> I have fed a ton of lamb that I have never frozen to Buck. Some of it has been because I buy it all when it's on sale but not all of it has been frozen by me.
> 
> How worried should we be about hydatids in the US?


Echinococcosis - Chapter 3 - 2012 Yellow Book - Travelers' Health - CDC

from what i quickly read, the areas of danger are on the farms where sheep graze....it can also get into cattle, tho' normally sterile....and of course, dogs who eat offal and carcasses...of course.

there is however, a vaccine that was developed in melbourne for this particularly nasty tape worm...

the incidence in north america is very low.


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## brandypup (Jan 23, 2012)

WEll I for one would ignore it. Or simply say it's not something you are worried about due to your personal research.

I have fed lamb hearts for a number of years. Not always frozen. I freeze stuff becuase I buy in bulk. 

I would think it's the same about the pork trig.. human grade meat I think would be safe.


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## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

I should add that I'm being very cautious. There is a chance that sometime in Mol and Windy's lifetime, they will need to be imported into NZ. NZ are notoriously strict on animal importation so I'm not taking any chances whatsoever that Mol could catch something and be refused entry.


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## sozzle (May 18, 2011)

Would she actually be refused entry do you think? I would've thought she would just be treated and tested and treated again if need be and the usual 6 weeks or quarantine?
Yes they are very strict here being an island nation, we don't anyone else's dangerous diseases being brought in.
Do you remember when they used to spray the planes before the passengers got off on arrival in NZ? ha ha that was so funny to me in the early days and really awful as we had to breathe it in as they went their merry way down the plane spraying disinfectant over our heads.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

sozzle said:


> Would she actually be refused entry do you think? I would've thought she would just be treated and tested and treated again if need be and the usual 6 weeks or quarantine?
> Yes they are very strict here being an island nation, we don't anyone else's dangerous diseases being brought in.
> Do you remember when they used to spray the planes before the passengers got off on arrival in NZ? ha ha that was so funny to me in the early days and really awful as we had to breathe it in as they went their merry way down the plane spraying disinfectant over our heads.


Talk about making you feel like you have cooties


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## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

sozzle said:


> Would she actually be refused entry do you think? I would've thought she would just be treated and tested and treated again if need be and the usual 6 weeks or quarantine?
> Yes they are very strict here being an island nation, we don't anyone else's dangerous diseases being brought in.
> Do you remember when they used to spray the planes before the passengers got off on arrival in NZ? ha ha that was so funny to me in the early days and really awful as we had to breathe it in as they went their merry way down the plane spraying disinfectant over our heads.


I would hope that is what they would do to the animals if they did have something. I just worry though, what if they refuse to let them enter, then I'm screwed, where do you go except back to the country you came from, and with visa's and such, it's not so easy to organise quickly. I'm trying to be ultra careful that every base is covered just incase I do have to come home. The animals have to spend 6 months here first, being tested every month, then when they can come into NZ, they are quarantined in a set facility for 30 days, being tested the whole time again, then they are allowed out. 

Yeah, I DO remember them spraying the planes before you were allowed off, what a scream! It's a wonder we didn't have to paddle through a disinfectant trough before being allowed into the terminal!


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