# Is raw good for kidney failure and food allergies?



## LayingWithDogs (Feb 28, 2011)

My 11-year-old has got some* severe* food allergies and now it seems like we're looking at some kidney failure (for details click here to see my other post in the health thread). 

I've been recommended a raw food diet from folks who posted on my thread and from alternative websites.

Now please, bombard me with reasons why my pup should switch to a raw meat diet (especially when the vet is telling me I need to withhold her protein intake).  I'm very interested in this!


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

A species appropriate diet is the answer to a lot of common ailments we see in dogs now. 
Allergies? Well of COURSE your dog has allergies, you're feeding him things he was not designed to eat, silly. Allergies are less likely when the foods going into your dog, are the ones he was designed, nose to tail, to digest, utilize, and pass. Once you get into commercial foods, there are so many things in there that are 1. processed and 2. not species appropriate. 

As for kidneys and protein, this is something I'm not all that familiar with. What I will say is that I myself question if the super high protein content in many of the "better" kibbles really is better for dogs. That being said, a prey model raw diet is actually only about 18-26% protein, so much much lower than the high protein diets on the market. Please do not be duped into one of the super expensive and utterly useless prescription diets.


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

It's not just raw meat. You must include bones and organs for a balanced diet. Both have nutrients your dog needs. Dogs/wolves have lived for a million years on a diet of raw meat, bones, and organs. It is what their bodies evolved to eat, digest, and extract nutrients from. They have no nutritional need for carbs or any plant matter at all in their diet. In fact their bodies are incapable of efficiently digesting plant matter. Their pancreas does not secrete the proper enzymes and their intestines are too short.

So, nature is telling us to feed our dogs meat, bones, and organs from a variety of animals. Commercial dog food has only been around for 50 or 60 years. What did dogs eat before that? Were they more healthy? I think yes. Instead of asking why you should feed the diet they have been eating for a million years and thriving, why not ask why you should feed commercial food which hasn't in it's short life hasn't proven itself in any scientific studies that it's as healthy as a natural diet of raw meat, bones and organs. Don't you think if the dog food companies COULD prove their products are healthier than a natural diet, we would have been bombarded with advertisements saying so? Doesn't that tell you something.

Talk to the people who feed a raw diet to their dogs. They will tell you that their dogs teeth look wonderful and they never get dentals at the vets office nor do most of them even brush their dog's teeth. They will tell you how bad breath disappeared. They wll tell you how much better their dog's coat looks. They will tell you how much more energy their dogs look. They will tell you how alergy problems disappeared. They will tell you how many chronic health problems disappeared. 

We have a thread in the raw feeding section about success stories. Read those. That should be all you need.

About vets ... vets are untrained in nutrition. They take ONE course in vet school about small animal nutrition. That covers ALL small animals, not just dogs. Basically their nutritional education comes from represenatives from the dog food companies. That's why all they can do is repeat what those reps tell them. One of the common statements from the reps is, "If the dog has liver problem, go to one of our low protein foods." It doesn't matter if that has been disproven in scientific studies. The vets just parrot what they are told. It's not really their fault. Most just don't know and trust these reps to tell them the truth.

To repeat. Read the thread "Success Stories". :smile:


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## luvMyBRT (Mar 8, 2010)

Read through the link in RawFedDogs signature above. Also read through this website: How to get started | Prey Model Raw

Both are full of great information on the "how to" and the "why" of raw feeding. As far as proteins and kidney failure I have heard that it's not the amount of proteins it's the "type" of protein that matter. A raw diet is perfect for your dog. It's low protein and it's the correct proteins (meat) for a carnivore.


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## Boxerdogz (Feb 15, 2011)

I posted this in the other thread too... but can someone please explain the "low protein" thing to me? I admit I know very little about raw (but am learning!) but that seems to go against everything I've read. If the calories are not coming from protein, and they are not coming from carbs, the rest is... fat??


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Raw meats are ~18-26% protein, because they are inclusive of water. Take the water away and you're left with high protein leftovers (which is what protein meals are used for kibble). Since the water content "dilutes" the protein content raw meats are considered a low protein diet. Most low protein kibbles contain 20-26% protein. 

The added moisture in a raw diet is also incredibly helpful to compromised kidneys. The more moisture you can get a kidney failure dog to have the better. 

What was the diagnosis of kidney disease? Just the beginning signs of disease or are the signs progressed?


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## cprcheetah (Jul 14, 2010)

Zoey has pretty severe food allergies. She was on Duck & Potato and would start reacting to the kibble proteins after about 3 months of eating the diet. We switched her to raw in July 2010 and she is doing so much better. She's no longer red/irritated/itchy. She doesn't need antihistamines only once in a great while if that. She has so much more energy. Shellie has had elevated kidney values since she was a puppy, but never significant. Since switching her to raw, we tested her in December and her levels were a lot lower, still elevated but not as much. If you haven't join the K9 Kidney group on Yahoo they were extremely helpful when we though Shellie had juvenille renal disease.

Forgot to mention, Zoey eats both Chicken & Beef regularly in raw form....she's allergic to both of them in kibble/processed form.


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## sassymaxmom (Dec 7, 2008)

I would have put Sassy on prey model raw if I had known enough about it when she was diagnosed. At just over normal range on her tests she could have eaten normal NRC levels of phosphorus which is easily done on this diet. She was getting about double the phosphorus needed on her premium kibble. I keep Max as close to those lower NRC levels now even though his kidneys are fine.

Low protein is very old information. Now phosphorus is considered important to keep low as it makes the dogs feel ill. Sassy actually got the same amount of meat as raw fed Max, just heavily cooked to remove phosphorus. That high amount of protein plus supplemental subcutaneous fluids kept her feeling pretty good for 3.5 years. Old dogs need more protein as they are less efficient at processing it and a sick dog is even less efficient.

Prey model raw is low in protein since it includes the large amount of very important water. If you take water out of the food it comes to about 50% protein and 50% fat by dry weight. Sassy couldn't tolerate a lot of cooked fat, many kidney dogs cannot, so I probably would have ended up giving raw skinned chicken joints with supplemental grains for low fat calories without much phosphorus along with a smaller than normal amount of organs as they are high in phosphorus.

Anywho, here is a wonderful page by somebody who actually fed raw to a kidney dog. DogAware.com Health: Kidney Disease in Dogs and another Kidney Diet | B-Naturals.Com Newsletter

Here is a possible PMR recipe for Max. He should get 1000 mg of calcium and 850 mg of phosphorus a day. 
Nutrition Facts and Analysis for mackerelchickenfootporkbeef
Here is how much Canidae dog food he might eat but he won't ever. Double the phosphorus per day needed and 270% his calcium requirement.
Nutrition Facts and Analysis for Canidae for Max - never!


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## Khan (Jan 17, 2010)

Well, I know from experience in the allergy dept. that the raw diet is the only diet for Khan. We went up and down the kibble isle trying any and everything to no avail. He still has environmental allergies; but he at least is not suffering from both the inside and the outside!!


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## Paws&Tails (Sep 3, 2010)

For dogs with severe food allergies raw is the only way to go in my mind. Spike had/has severe food allergies. He was/is allergic to _cooked_ chicken and fish, a few cooked vegetables and all grains, especially wheat and rice. 

I tried so many different kibbles and canned foods it made my head spin. He was always on steroid shots or having to take antihistamines. Even that didn't help very much. He was always red and irritated, begging to be scratched, rubbing his back all over the floor, his breath stunk to high heaven, his teeth definitely needed a cleaning, he had a horrible odor about him and he wasn't very energetic. 

I started making his own food at home in September (of 2010). It did help a little, but he was still itching quite a bit, breath still stunk, teeth still needed cleaned and he still stunk. Definitely not at the top of his health.

I started researching raw diets more. I immediately decided to start a raw diet after a day of thorough research (I had looked into it in the past for cats before) and within weeks his itching and problems subsided. I haven't looked back since and neither has Spike.


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## LayingWithDogs (Feb 28, 2011)

I really appreciate all the detailed responses guys. 

Okie isn't actually my dog, she's my boss'. I'm just doing the research foot work, however I was fascinated by the idea of the raw prey diet and wanted to know more in the case I own my own pup one day.

Before suggesting raw to the very skeptical, vet abiding owner of Okie, should I be afraid of nutritional shock? Okie's been getting canned foods with filler ingredients and man-made nutrients for at least 11 years. Is it possible the switch would confuse her body and possible kill her considering she's in such a fragile state as it is?

Though I suppose it couldn't be much different than the various switches of dog food we do as it is to try and find one that falls in line with the vet's specifications....

Also, I'm aware of the low protein thing being mythical. When I was first informed of that via this forum, I emailed one of the vet's here on the ranch (she's not Okie's primary vet, but she's a friend) who did her blood work and I guess there's something in additional to the kidney failure that influenced the decision for a low-protein diet. I don't have the email in front of me and unfortunately I don't remember what the condition was. She was, however, aware of the kidney failure/low protein speculations.

One more question (sorry, I'm kind of all over the board here). Okie is hypothetically allergic to beef. Is raw chicken or turkey a good alternative?


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## tracydr (Feb 25, 2011)

You can keep the protein lower by feeding more tripe. Make sure you watch sodium as some meats have more than others. It's certainly doable. I think it saved my chihuahua when he was in near liver/kidney failure two years ago.


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## JayJayisme (Aug 2, 2009)

Please download this white paper from Champion Pet Foods (maker of the Orijen line) and read pages 26-27. This is the best summary of the protein/kidney issue I've read and the document on a whole is full of valuable information. Frankly, I'm shocked a pet food company would be so honest about the subject.

http://www.orijen.ca/orijen/ORIJEN_White_paper.pdf


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## LayingWithDogs (Feb 28, 2011)

What an interesting article! I only read 26-30, but I intend to read the rest when I have several moments.

I'm proposing all my findings to my boss tonight, I'll tell y'all later!


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## Nani (Apr 14, 2010)

(side note) that article is now bookmarked and I will finish reading tomorrow! Thank you JayJayisme!


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