# That's ONLY for show dogs...



## mischiefgrrl (Oct 28, 2010)

I took Tiny Tiffa to the dog park today trying to get her to socialize a little more. I was also hoping there would be other weenies for her to play with. She didn't want to play with anyone and there were no weenies. Oh well.

There was an Aussie puppy there that was 5 months old and being way too aggressive with the other dogs. This wasn't fun time... he was actually making the little dogs yelp and drew blood on a pug. I know Aussies very well and learned lessons through trial and error from my first one. I asked the owners how old he was when they brought him home from the breeder and they said 8 weeks. I told them that was a little early since he needed to learn bite inhibition from his siblings. They told me that is ONLY for show dogs. Really? Only show dogs need to learn bite inhibition??? He certainly wasn't learning it from the little dogs.

I tried to tell them about an awesome training facility nearby that has all kinds of obedience and agility training. Again, I got the answer that he's not a show dog.

Sadly, I think I am going to see this dog in need of rescue through the Aussie rescue within a year. He's going to be deemed "aggressive" without the proper training. The guy even said "Oh, well I think he'll calm down in a few months." This is not someone who knows the breed. My Rainbow Bridge Aussie didn't calm down until the morning he passed away. They are puppies from birth to death.


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## amandanicole (May 31, 2011)

hah.... Calm down in a couple of months? >.< They're sure in for a surprise when he gets to 7-9 months and becomes a moody adolescent... The ignorance of some dog owners is so sad... We've referred several people at the dog park to the training facility we go to and have gotten similar responses  (not the show dog response, but the "Oh he's just a puppy, he'll grow out of it")


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## bernadettelevis (Feb 2, 2011)

ok so only show dogs have to be trained....good to know! So i wasted a lot of time training my non show dog, but fortunately now i know better 

Some people should really do some research before getting a dog, that poor aussie!


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## dmgmn (Apr 24, 2011)

These people are obviously clueless about Aussies!
This truly pisses me off because i know this dog will end up at a rescue or worse! Just because these people lack the common sense to research what kind of dog they're getting!
Even simple training and socialization is a must for Aussies.

These type of people shouldn't have any kind of pet, much less procreate!!

OK, i better go before i get really CRABBY!


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## SpooOwner (Oct 1, 2010)

That's just weird. So sad for the little guy.


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## wags (Jan 31, 2009)

I thought their were rules at dog parks where if this happens you have to remove your dog. Or jeeze at least a time out! That would make me not want to participate then if dogs are allowed to bite each other even puppy play! I know right here at home I have to say ok guys behave my one likes to bite ankles and the back of the other dogs legs as well as ears but I can tell when he's playing and he is so I do though tell him to knock it off( does he get it) I at times use the spray bottle with the water, but he has never ever drawn blood! Awww I just feel bad for the other dogs there with irresponsible folk just letting their dog do whatever and hoping for the best! Why I am questioning their ignorance is because in our area they are finally (hasn't been set in stone yet) thinking about a dog park which would be fun for the dogs but then this is hmmmm years off though . So I would want there to be responsible people of course (yah I know the old grumpy old men movie saying wish in one hand ~~sh** in the other see which comes first heehee thingy) Oh well I hope things go better for all at this dog park you visit! seems there needs to be more rules!


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

It is sad but it happens all the time, this is why I won't take my one socialized dog to the dog park, no how, no way! 

In truth, ALL dog owners should pass a test before being able to get a dog!


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## mischiefgrrl (Oct 28, 2010)

It is frustrating. I keep thinking about that puppy. I've adopted and volunteered on rescues for the Aussie rescue and I just know I'm going to see him on the list in the near future. 

I love the idea of dog parks and letting them run off leash, romp and play with other dogs. Unfortunately, my experiences just don't go that well. Tanis always seems to run into an aggressive dog with the owner saying "Oh, I was just hoping he'd get better." The little dog side is much more mellow but she's just not into making new friends. I guess I'll just stick with play dates in my building with the neighbor's bulldog. I like the neighbors and our dogs love to play and run up and down the hall together.


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

AHH...these kind of people annoy me to no end!! ESPECIALLY when we are talking about Aussies, BCs and the like!!

When we went to the local pet expo with Brody and Rhett I had a woman who was volunteering for a rescue(I dont remember which one) who just started petting Rhett, he flipped out he was so excited. I got his attention back to me and made him sit to be petting by reminding him "off" and "sit" she asked me how old he was and I stated just at 3 months, she stood up and told me that 3 months was too YOUNG to teach him all those commands!!!! 


I looked at her shook my head and told her that 2 of his sisters were already in Puppy agility and both his full 18 month old sisters had already passed their CGC! She just shook her head, I asked her if I was suppose to wait till he was a 50lbs dog who knew no commands and she just shrugged her shoulders. I hate to think what she has been telling people who come into her rescue!!!


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## amandanicole (May 31, 2011)

It really is too bad that so many people take their aggressive/fearful/overall un-socialized dogs to dog parks to "get socialized" We're just lucky around here that we have a nice big 12 acre dog park. The very first thing I do when we get there is scout out the other dogs(and their people)... SO many people seem to think that they can all hang out by the picnic tables and let there dog do whatever, not even keeping an eye on them(come on people it's not doggie daycare! you have to follow your dogs around and keep your eyes on them!) >.< If there are any dogs who are obviously not safe for my 3 we leave immediately, if there are iffy dogs, or large groups of dogs running together, we'll go play in an isolated spot.To me it's so incredibly sad that irresponsible owners are the reason so many fantastic dog people are turned away from dog parks =/


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## doggiedad (Jan 23, 2011)

i thought 8 weeks was the standard time to bring a puppy
home. i have a show dog and he came home at 9 weeks
because he couldn't fly because of tempertures. if the weather
was cooler he would have been home at 8 weeks old.

why do you think the dog is going to wind up in a shelter?
how do you determine that from seeing a puppy with it's owners?


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

doggiedad said:


> i thought 8 weeks was the standard time to bring a puppy
> home. i have a show dog and he came home at 9 weeks
> because he couldn't fly because of tempertures. if the weather
> was cooler he would have been home at 8 weeks old.
> ...


Well I cant fully speak for the OP but I can say that I got my Border Collie(so a herder like the Aussie that the OP was talking about) at 10 weeks old and he is FAR more respectful then his sister counter parts that went home at 8 weeks old! I know with their breed(and I know it is considered the same with sight hounds, sent hounds and I BELIEVE herding/working dogs as well) that 9-12 weeks is optimum!:wink:

With how the OP described the poor dog's lack of training and the ignorant owner's lack of care for training would be the reason that all of us could easily see that poor training neglected dog in a shelter or worse!!


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## Devils of York (Jul 28, 2010)

Minimum 8 weeks, ideally 12 weeks. Every week added, with a good breeder, is beneficial. 

I brought my second boy home from the breeder when he was 8 months old. He was being held for evaluation. If I could go back in time, I would do the same with my first boy. Can't match the socialization in a good breeder's home.


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## mischiefgrrl (Oct 28, 2010)

It really is sad as far as dog parks go. This one was made possible by a lot of fighting for a place for dogs to go. Dogs are not allowed in any parks in this city, not even on a leash. There were some very generous donations by dog loving celebrities to make it happen and it should be a great place to go. 

Also, on how this pup is being raised. I love all dogs, I especially love mine both. Aussies and Border Collies though, I think require a special owner who knows what an honor it is to own them. These dogs LIVE to please and will do any trick that will make their master happy. They are an amazingly special breed. Unfortunately, when they are not taught right as pups, they can end up aggressive and given a death sentence. I saw already in this pup things that I saw in two Aussies at the rescue that we just couldn't rehome.

I'm lucky with Tanis. He's got that eager to please instinct, but he is also very mellow and easy going for an Aussie. I'm able to live with him in an apartment just fine. My old guy Buster would've been miserable in an apartment. He needed to run and play HARD for at least 30 minutes, twice a day in order to be happy.


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## mischiefgrrl (Oct 28, 2010)

doggiedad said:


> i thought 8 weeks was the standard time to bring a puppy
> home. i have a show dog and he came home at 9 weeks
> because he couldn't fly because of tempertures. if the weather
> was cooler he would have been home at 8 weeks old.
> ...


It depends on the breed. My doxie was ready to go at 8 weeks, I think she was 10 weeks when I got her though because I had to travel to see my Dad first. As Scarlett said, herding dogs are different. They need a little more time with their parents and siblings to learn bite inhibition. They are VERY high energy and if they don't learn bite inhibition young, it can be very destructive. 

I could tell with this pup based on my experience in rescue work with this particular breed. Aussies will "mouth" other dogs in play, they learn to do it when they learn bite inhibition with their siblings. This one was not mouthing, he was biting; hard.


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

We breed collies and no one leaves here until 10 weeks and that is only to experienced dog owners or someone who has another dog to teach it dog manners. Everyone else stays to 12 weeks.


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

Liz said:


> We breed collies and no one leaves here until 10 weeks and that is only to experienced dog owners or someone who has another dog to teach it dog manners. Everyone else stays to 12 weeks.


Yep, if I ever end up getting into breeding I will have the same policy, no matter what! I know Rhett is an AMAZINGLY different dog from being with his parents and the rest of the pack for those extra couple weeks!!


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## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

I think it varies from owner to owner as well as breeds. Our friends' Malamute is around 6 months old now and she is terrible. She was brought home at 10 weeks. All of our other friends complain about her because she has been taught NO manners. She is our friends' first dog. They live in an apartment, keep her crated, and don't exercise her nearly enough. Because of this and the lack of play dates, everyone wants them to leave her behind when we camp, hike, whatever. 

My dog, Dude, is a perfect gentleman. I brought him home at 8 weeks. All our friends absolutely FAWN over him. No one complains when we bring him with us and everyone talks about how they like him so much more than their own dog. 

Our bluetick was brought home at 8 weeks and we have had him for a week and a half. He has almost ceased his play biting (most of the time) and knows sit and lay down. Being stubborn, we are trying to work on staying off the screen door and not throwing a fit when we put him in his pen (not his crate as we ONLY do that at night because I just don't think it's fair to crate a pup "because you get tired of them"). 

We also put in the effort to socialize them. Once our friends' bull terrier pup gets his next round of shots, they are bringing him and their adult female over for a play date and Dude has his other "bestest buddy", Kita, a malamute/wolf mix. We set play dates as often as possible with all of our friends' dogs, provided they are up to date on their vaccinations. 

He may not have gotten an extra 2-4 weeks with his breeder, but he will turn out to be a great dog because of our EFFORT to create another perfect gentleman.


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## SpooOwner (Oct 1, 2010)

Dude and Bucks Mamma said:


> I think it varies from owner to owner as well as breeds. [...]
> 
> He may not have gotten an extra 2-4 weeks with his breeder, but he will turn out to be a great dog because of our EFFORT to create another perfect gentleman.


I'm really intrigued by the 12 week thing. I've noticed a few differences in pups who leave the breeder at 8 weeks v 9 weeks; usually those differences involve potty training and socialization/fear. Although it makes some intuitive sense to me that pups are better off staying with their dam for a few more weeks, I haven't heard of many breeders keeping the pups until 12 weeks. Does it depend on the breed, e.g. a high energy working or herding breed v. a companion breed?


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## SilverBeat (Jan 16, 2011)

I'm wondering, is there any way to reverse the damage that's been done? My friend has a rescue dog that was pulled from a shelter at I believe 6 weeks, had terrible pneumonia and almost died [her sister died], is now about 4 months old and nips, mouths, bites and licks everything. None of the older dogs she's around [including a retired breeding mama that she lives with] have tried to teach her any manners.


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

I understand what people are saying about the 8 weeks. My pups would probably be okay as they are collies and I think collies are pretty easy dogs. If they have owners who really work with them they will be fantastic, but I am going ont he premise that people get busy and don't always find the time to work with a puppy. If I send a puppy home who is crate trained, house trained (about 3-4 hours at a time), basic house manners, experienced in car riding, walks great on leash and has beginning obedience work done I believe there is almost no chance of the placement not working out. Mouthiness is never an issue as it is dealt with immediately and they are never allowed to put teeth on humn skin. We do alot of work with our pups and I think and have been told that they are the easiest pups my people have ever owned. That makes it worthwhile for me.


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## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

As far as the potty training issue goes (and this is a testament to what Liz said about collies) but Dude was raised outdoors. I was 13 and finishing up middle school. I picked the breed, breeder, and pup when my stepdad finally let us get another dog (his dalmatian had just died and he was depressed). I had assumed that, since our brittany was an indoor dog, that this new pup would be too. I found out AFTER we brought him home that my mom did NOT want him inside at all. Thus, he was NEVER housebroken.

Fast forward 7 years... I am newly married. My husband drives me, my stuff, and "our" dog up to Washington to our new apartment. Dude is not housebroken at 7 years old... It took me less than 24 hours. He never once had an accident in the house. I don't think there is any age for housebreaking.

Back to the point. Pups. Buck has not had an accident in the house in 3 days. We live in an area where the door can be left open almost al the time. We have found that leaving the screen door open during the day allows him to just get up and go outside to pee when he feels the need. He is showing that he does not see the living room as a convenient toilet. At night, when we close the door, he weaves in and out of the blinds when he needs to go out. He may not be PURPOSELY telling us he needs to go out, but by leaving the door open during the day, he automatically goes to the door at night when he needs to go out. 

These are both "8 weekers". Would I be upset if the next breeder I chooses to keep the pups until 12 weeks? Yes and No. Yes- I want my dang puppy! No- because I know it is what is best for the pup so I am willing to wait. I just don't think that an "8 week" pup will turn out poorly if the owner is willing to put the time and effort into a pup. We got Buck now because I am in between semesters and am home ALL the time to socialize and train him.


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## candiceb (Jan 22, 2010)

In the past my family usually got puppies at 8 weeks. With my current two, Ryder I got at 9 weeks because that's when they were graded, and Toby I got at ~5 months, because that's when the breeder asked me to take him to "babysit" for a few weeks. He was with his litter up until that point. Honestly of the two, Toby (the Dachshund) is the better socialized. I take him to the dog park regularly and he doesn't get into squabbles, and he's intact. Ryder, on the other hand, has a huge chip on his shoulder when it comes to interacting with other males, and I will not put myself in that position with him. Mind you, he and Toby get along well, but he does not like foreign males.

Whether or not their willingness to get along with others is because of the age I brought them home, I don't know. I tend to think it's more due to their individual personalities, but who knows. At home, they are obedient, loyal companions, so I can't complain.


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