# Earthborn GF vs. Dr. Tim's Kinesis GF?



## Grey (Jul 6, 2012)

Has anyone had any experience with the Earthborn GF lines and Dr. Tim's Kinesis GF? I've been posting on the Dog Food Advisor forum; I'm being sent samples of both the Kinesis GF and the Earthborn GF lines. I'm paying close attention to the calcium as Riggs is nearly 8 months, but I feel comfortable feeding a bit higher calcium now that he's older and past his initial growthspurt.

A bit of background on my food history -- I've posted here before, but I may not be memorable. 

Quinn has been on TOTW (switched after recall and itching), Acana (was wonderful on Ranchlands and then the new formulas made her itch), and most recently Fromm Adult Gold and Fromm Large Breed Puppy Gold for Riggs. I really enjoy the Fromm brand, but unfortunately their stool has just not been consistent enough for me. It's been just too soft -- making it difficult it pick up and often too mushy. We stopped feeding grain-free because I thought they were out of my cost point. I'd love to put them both on the same food. This was my goal to do in October when Riggs' turns one, but I feel like I can feed him an all-stages life formula with no problems. Given their stool issues, I'd like to try and do this sooner.

*EARTHBORN GRAIN-FREE:*
Primitive Naturals: 38% protein / Calcium: 1.50% (not listed on site, but per Earthborn on 6/3/13)
Great Plains: 34% protein / Calcium: 1.50%
Coastal Catch: 32% protein / Calcium: 1.30%
Meadow Feast: 26% protein / Calcium: 1.20%
*** Would likely not feed Meadow Feast due to protein level and rotate between Primitive Naturals, Great Plains, and Coastal Catch. Am not totally against trying Meadow Feast, though. The different flavors appeal to me since I'd be able to switch it up, but nowhere on their site does it say that they encourage you to swap between flavors (as Fromm's does... they're good at marketing this).

*DR. TIM’S KINESIS GRAIN-FREE:*
32% protein / Calcium: 1.51%
*** If I were to feed Dr. Tim’s, I’d probably feel better about use wet food every now and again from my Pawalla box on top of it to add a bit of extra flavors whereas, with Earthborn, they’d be getting a different flavor rotation to keep things interesting.

Can anyone shed any light on their concerns? I heard that Earthborn has high ash content (particularly the Primitive Naturals) whereas Dr. Tim's has 6.9% max. Basically, I am leaning towards Dr. Tim's (their customer service has been oustanding in our brief exchanges and I talked to one of their representatives over the phone -- incredibly nice lady), but am really looking for some honest feedback in regards to your experiences. I realize that every dog is different, but I wanted to know if anyone had any particular thoughts.

Thanks, as always!


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## Jacksons Mom (Jun 13, 2010)

I would probably lean towards Dr. Tim's, but it's not as readily available in a lot of places. If I were feeding Earthborn, I'd probably pick Coastal Catch which I think is 7.5% ash, so lowest of their formulas. Midwestern Pet Foods is a pretty good company though from what I've heard. I'd never feed their Primitive Natural formula at 12% ash.

Funny you say that about Fromm -- I really really wanted to like the food, but I never was happy with his poops while on it. He also just... didn't look as good to me. After 6 months on Fromm, we switched to Now Fresh Adult GF, he had a few samples in between of other brands, and then we decided to go back to Acana Duck & Pear for the time being (what he had always done best on in the past) for a bag which he's over half-way through now. We're wanting to try Annamaet (we had samples) but the freakin' bag situation is stopping us from buying a bigger bag, the 5.5lb bags have been out at Chewy for a while now, I talked to them the other day and they still didn't have them.

I would try both, and see which gives better results.


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## SpinRetrievers (Jun 1, 2013)

Forget Earthborn...Primitive will eventually cause kidney failure and the others use copious amounts of Pea Protein and other pea ingredients to compensate for bad meat sources. They are second-tier foods.

Dr. Tim's is a much higher grade food. Not sure why you need to offer different flavors, dogs don't care. It is the owners that find satisfaction in offering choice.

The other alternatives are the Annamaet foods, which are like Dr. Tim's in quality.


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## SpinRetrievers (Jun 1, 2013)

Jacksons Mom said:


> I would probably lean towards Dr. Tim's, but it's not as readily available in a lot of places. If I were feeding Earthborn, I'd probably pick Coastal Catch which I think is 7.5% ash, so lowest of their formulas. Midwestern Pet Foods is a pretty good company though from what I've heard. I'd never feed their Primitive Natural formula at 12% ash.
> 
> Funny you say that about Fromm -- I really really wanted to like the food, but I never was happy with his poops while on it. He also just... didn't look as good to me. After 6 months on Fromm, we switched to Now Fresh Adult GF, he had a few samples in between of other brands, and then we decided to go back to Acana Duck & Pear for the time being (what he had always done best on in the past) for a bag which he's over half-way through now. We're wanting to try Annamaet (we had samples) but the freakin' bag situation is stopping us from buying a bigger bag, the 5.5lb bags have been out at Chewy for a while now, I talked to them the other day and they still didn't have them.
> 
> I would try both, and see which gives better results.


Only Manitok is out of stock, Salcha & Aqualuk are in stock @ Mr. Chewy and all three are in stock at my local dealer. No issue with bags.


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## bett (Mar 15, 2012)

Coastal catch, with 7.5 ash will not cause kidney failure but check with others or a vet, that understands nutrition.
While it is true that a dog will eat the same food for it's entire lifetime, many folks rotate for reasons other than offering their pets a new flavor.
With all the recalls, it has the ability, to not offer a toxic laced food, if one rotates.
Some folks complain or dont like corn and others dont like peas or pea protein.

Short of home cooking properly or feeding raw properly, someone will find something unsatisfactory about any kibble. In time

I myself home cook for one lab, who got sick last year during the diamond mess, use different fromm's for another lab, without any negative issues ( skin, poops, intolerances, etc) and my third is now on welllness ocean, because of what i believe is a chicken intolerance.


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## SpinRetrievers (Jun 1, 2013)

bett said:


> Coastal catch, with 7.5 ash will not cause kidney failure but check with others or a vet, that understands nutrition.
> While it is true that a dog will eat the same food for it's entire lifetime, many folks rotate for reasons other than offering their pets a new flavor.
> With all the recalls, it has the ability, to not offer a toxic laced food, if one rotates.
> Some folks complain or dont like corn and others dont like peas or pea protein.
> ...


So what you are saying is that you rotate foods as a way to lower you risk of being in a recall? Isn't that a bit much??

Do you buy different brands of food or shop at different stores for yourself to lower risk as well?

You are very dramatic "toxic laced food", sounds like something you read on a website.


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## InkedMarie (Sep 9, 2011)

I've only fed dr Tim's Pursuit so I can't answer your questions but who are you on DFA?


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## Grey (Jul 6, 2012)

InkedMarie said:


> I've only fed dr Tim's Pursuit so I can't answer your questions but who are you on DFA?


saireah.


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## InkedMarie (Sep 9, 2011)

Grey said:


> saireah.


I'll say hi next time I see you post!


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## SpinRetrievers (Jun 1, 2013)

Grey said:


> saireah.


The people on DFA are generally complete fools. Make your choice of food dependent on what champion dogs eat not what people say on silly forums.

Maybe its beating a dead horse, but Mike Sagman is a dentist and frankly I cannot understand how the FTC allows that website to exist the way it does.


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## jaber6 (Feb 21, 2013)

Tux has been on Dr. Tim's GF for a few weeks now. He loves it and has been doing really good on it so far. He's full of energy and it's funny seeing him wear out big dogs during some wrestling/play. Now sure if the food has much to do with this, but we noticed less gunk in his ears as well. As far as his weight, he's maintaining proper weight and has a nice waistline. 

He used to be on Acana Ranchlands Wild Prairie, he did ok. Considering the price of the bag and how he was doing on it; on his active days. We decided to jump ship. He would have diahrrea/soft stools after playing, catch, running around, etc. His stool also smelled BAD. Being first puppy owner, figured it was expected lol... After we transitioned to Dr. Tim's GF, he poops less (volume wise too) and it doesn't actually smell bad. Now he could do all his normal activities and not have to smear the grass with his shit that cannot be picked up well. 

No local stores sell Dr. Tim's, so we have to order via Chewy.com.


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## CrazyZane (Apr 14, 2013)

SpinRetrievers said:


> Forget Earthborn...Primitive will eventually cause kidney failure and the others use copious amounts of Pea Protein and other pea ingredients to compensate for bad meat sources. They are second-tier foods.
> 
> Dr. Tim's is a much higher grade food. Not sure why you need to offer different flavors, dogs don't care. It is the owners that find satisfaction in offering choice.
> 
> The other alternatives are the Annamaet foods, which are like Dr. Tim's in quality.



Man you Dr. Tim / Annamaet people don't give up. You get banned and keep coming back. I hope they at least give you some free kibble for your time.


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## bett (Mar 15, 2012)

SpinRetrievers said:


> So what you are saying is that you rotate foods as a way to lower you risk of being in a recall? Isn't that a bit much??
> 
> Do you buy different brands of food or shop at different stores for yourself to lower risk as well?
> 
> You are very dramatic "toxic laced food", sounds like something you read on a website.


well, no i rotate fromm flavors (you know, the ones they have, usually grain free but every once in a while, throw in one with grains)
i order from chewy as i dont feel like dragging the bags home and not every store where i live has fromm.

no not dramatic at all. i almost lost rex to the diamond fiasco last year. dont you remember that? liver failure. last may. he celebrated his 11 th birthday this feb, and his liver levels are now normal with a home cooked liver support diet, supplements and chinese herbs.

i know, you dont believe in chinese herbs. neither my regular vet or the internist knew anything about them either. i figured they said, he was a goner so i 'd try anything. and also , his blood wasnt coagulating either so they couldnt do the needed guided biopsy. blood fine now too.

oh yeah, diamond paid nearly 4 grand in my bills.

dramatic all right.


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## Grey (Jul 6, 2012)

jaber6 said:


> Tux has been on Dr. Tim's GF for a few weeks now. He loves it and has been doing really good on it so far. He's full of energy and it's funny seeing him wear out big dogs during some wrestling/play. Now sure if the food has much to do with this, but we noticed less gunk in his ears as well. As far as his weight, he's maintaining proper weight and has a nice waistline.
> 
> He used to be on Acana Ranchlands Wild Prairie, he did ok. Considering the price of the bag and how he was doing on it; on his active days. We decided to jump ship. He would have diahrrea/soft stools after playing, catch, running around, etc. His stool also smelled BAD. Being first puppy owner, figured it was expected lol... After we transitioned to Dr. Tim's GF, he poops less (volume wise too) and it doesn't actually smell bad. Now he could do all his normal activities and not have to smear the grass with his shit that cannot be picked up well.
> 
> No local stores sell Dr. Tim's, so we have to order via Chewy.com.


I'll have to buy from Chewy.com as well. No stores around here sell it, either. Hoping that it solves my stool problems with Quinn and Riggs, too. Acana was too expensive for me with the condition I was getting out of it -- Quinn didn't do well, as I mentioned.



SpinRetrievers said:


> The people on DFA are generally complete fools. Make your choice of food dependent on what champion dogs eat not what people say on silly forums.
> 
> Maybe its beating a dead horse, but Mike Sagman is a dentist and frankly I cannot understand how the FTC allows that website to exist the way it does.


DFA is one of the most non-biased sites that I've come across. I enjoy his reviews, because he refuses to push any particular brand (even in e-mail correspondence with him -- he will not make personal suggestions). I really enjoy the comments by other dog owners, too, which is primarily why I visit -- after all, I wouldn't be on these forums if I took my vet's advice and fed Science Diet. I'm on these forums because I value what real owners' experiences are. I also am not sure what you mean by "champion" dogs -- a lot of the show dogs in the Midwest (I'm friends with quote a few owners) feed Fromm's Classic line and, if I wanted a "champion" dog food in terms of a sled dog, I think my dog's would be too fat to stand up. They're very active and are slender, but they're definitely not pulling me in a sled.  Thanks for pointing out the pea protein. I've also heard great things about Annamaet, but I'd love to try something like Dr. Tim's that's a bit less money.


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## NewfieAussie (Feb 19, 2013)

CrazyZane said:


> Man you Dr. Tim / Annamaet people don't give up. You get banned and keep coming back. I hope they at least give you some free kibble for your time.


Man, the Fromm people don't give up and Man, the Orijen/Acana people don't give up. 

I am a Dr Tim's endorser because it truly is a fanatstic food based on what I observe with my four dogs. When my daughters 12 yr old Collie started playing and running again versus what he had been doing, staring blankly into space I was sold.

I merely recommend it to help the health and nutrition of other dogs. Absolutely no agenda other than to help dogs be well fed without throwing money out the window. Top quality food at a fair price.


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## CrazyZane (Apr 14, 2013)

NewfieAussie said:


> Man, the Fromm people don't give up and Man, the Orijen/Acana people don't give up.


I'm referring to the "new" members here that join and the first 1-2 post immediately start pushing Dr. Tim / Annamaet. That's why I quoted that member and not you. That's pretty pathetic to get banned and keep coming back under new names pushing a food over and over and over and over. Yes we get it...all other kibble sucks, Ohio plant is the BEST out there. Orijen is nothing but marketing, Dr. Tim / Annamaet is the KING OF ALL KIBBLE. :wacko:




NewfieAussie said:


> I am a Dr Tim's endorser because it truly is a fanatstic food based on what I observe with my four dogs.


I tried Dr. Tim's and Annamaet. I have nothing against either brand.....


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## SpinRetrievers (Jun 1, 2013)

CrazyZane said:


> I'm referring to the "new" members here that join and the first 1-2 post immediately start pushing Dr. Tim / Annamaet. That's why I quoted that member and not you. That's pretty pathetic to get banned and keep coming back under new names pushing a food over and over and over and over. Yes we get it...all other kibble sucks, Ohio plant is the BEST out there. Orijen is nothing but marketing, Dr. Tim / Annamaet is the KING OF ALL KIBBLE. :wacko:
> 
> 
> I tried Dr. Tim's and Annamaet. I have nothing against either brand.....


I was reading your posts. I lost count on all the different foods you had that poor puppy on in a month or so. You must not have read the memo that puppies often don't form hard, solid stools and shouldn't be expected to. And puppies have a very difficult time with food changes. Puppies go poo, that is what puppies do. If you ate as much as you could 3 - 4 times a day you would go poo a lot as well. 

Poor little dog.


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## Celt (Dec 27, 2010)

SpinRetrievers said:


> I was reading your posts. I lost count on all the different foods you had that poor puppy on in a month or so. You must not have read the memo that puppies often don't form hard, solid stools and shouldn't be expected to. And puppies have a very difficult time with food changes. Puppies go poo, that is what puppies do. If you ate as much as you could 3 - 4 times a day you would go poo a lot as well.
> 
> Poor little dog.


I have owned puppies from large to small, a few from birth on, and every one of them had solid(i.e. not squishy, but well formed and easy to pick up with no residue) poop by 8 weeks at the oldest. Most had it by 5 weeks. It's true that puppies go more often than adults because, as you said, of being feed more often. There can still be an excesive amount. As for having a difficult time with food changes, never had an issue with that either. If I had a pup who had pudding poop for more than a couple days, I would be taking a closer look at diet, activity and "exposure" to see if I could pinpoint what was triggering it.


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## CrazyZane (Apr 14, 2013)

SpinRetrievers said:


> I was reading your posts. I lost count on all the different foods you had that poor puppy on in a month or so. You must not have read the memo that puppies often don't form hard, solid stools and shouldn't be expected to. And puppies have a very difficult time with food changes. Puppies go poo, that is what puppies do. If you ate as much as you could 3 - 4 times a day you would go poo a lot as well.
> 
> Poor little dog.


Well I guess you missed the memo because since he's been on California Natural he's had firm stools and he has about 1/4 of a 15lb left. He's also eating the most he's ever eaten which is 1 1/4c - 3x a day and he only goes twice / low volume. So that's complete b.s. that puppies don't have firm stools...and yeah poor dog to finally be on a food that works.


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## Grey (Jul 6, 2012)

Update: received samples from both company and, as I expected, I do prefer Dr. Tim's in terms of the kibble size (they're "meatier") and my dogs went CRAZY for it where they were excited about Earthborn, but not as thrilled. Will give it a whirl! At only $4 more for a 30lb bag vs. a 33lb grain-inclusive bag, I'm thinking it will balance out as I'll feed less due to being grain-free...


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## PDXdogmom (Jun 30, 2010)

Hope the Dr. Tim's shows good results for your dogs. The lower ash amounts and lack of pea protein are good things IMO.


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