# Ziva got 'partially' spayed today...



## cprcheetah (Jul 14, 2010)

After much research I decided to go with the 'hysterectomy' on Ziva. She is awake in my arms as I am typing, but we had her uterus/cervix removed and left the ovaries. She will still come in heat just won't bleed & can't get pregnant. Will maintain her feminine hormones so won't have the weight gain issues, the urinary incontinence issue etc. I have done extensive search on it and just felt this was the best option. She is 6 months old and only weighs 4.1#, my 5 year old chi weighs 4.3#. Ziva is so tiny.


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## RachelsaurusRexU (Sep 4, 2010)

Huh, this is interesting! It's something I've never heard very much about. Can you tell me more about it or post up some links, pretty please?


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## cprcheetah (Jul 14, 2010)

Here's tidbits from the research I have been doing. I work for a Veterinarian who also happens to be my father, so this is total foreign soil here to me as well, but I'm on a couple of natural care groups on yahoo, and they were talking about it and it got me thinking so I have been researching it for several weeks:

Benefits:
Hormonal Imbalance resulting in obesity, cardiac stress & urinary incontinece won't be a problem.

Here is an article from the early 1970’s written by a man who was waaay ahead of his time- Dr. Wendell Belfield. http://www.belfield.com/pdfs/Partial_Spay.pdf


This is an excellent article talks about the importance of hormones:
Emails to Clients About Spaying « DogtorJ.com :: Food Intolerance in Pets & Their People :: Home of The GARD

A study which basically pointed out dogs with ovaries lived longer:
Exploring mechanisms of sex differences in longevity: lifetime ovary exposure and exceptional longevity in dogs - Waters - 2009 - Aging Cell - Wiley Online Library

Hysterectomy

Clip from Dr. Belfield :
I once performed this procedure on a bitch that was permitted to run loose, needless to say all of the males were tearing down fences, fighting one another to win the prize. This infuriated all human members in the neighborhood, the owner insisted I remove the remaining ovary. These are the ones I do not recommend for the procedure. As a rule, estrus alternates between the two ovaries twice annually. The first animal I performed the
surgery on was my own German Shepherd, she had a wonderful long life. It also has a tendency to minimize fat metabolism. The gonadotropic hormones definitely play an important role in immune function. Most of the dogs with allergies tend to be those that have been altered compared to whole animals. I do agree, it does offer a more normal life for the female. I have also performed vasectomies on males with the same positive results.
Wendell O. Belfield, DVM 

This talks about long-term health effects of spay/neuter dogs:

http://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/longt...uterindogs.pdf
On balance, it appears that no compelling case can be made for neutering most male dogs, especially
immature male dogs, in order to prevent future health problems. The number of health problems associated
with neutering may exceed the associated health benefits in most cases.

On the positive side, neutering male dogs
• eliminates the small risk (probably <1%) of dying from testicular cancer
• reduces the risk of non-cancerous prostate disorders
• reduces the risk of perianal fistulas
• may possibly reduce the risk of diabetes (data inconclusive)

On the negative side, neutering male dogs
• if done before 1 year of age, significantly increases the risk of osteosarcoma (bone cancer); this is a
common cancer in medium/large and larger breeds with a poor prognosis.
• increases the risk of cardiac hemangiosarcoma by a factor of 1.6
• triples the risk of hypothyroidism
• increases the risk of progressive geriatric cognitive impairment
• triples the risk of obesity, a common health problem in dogs with many associated health problems
• quadruples the small risk (<0.6%) of prostate cancer
• doubles the small risk (<1%) of urinary tract cancers
• increases the risk of orthopedic disorders
• increases the risk of adverse reactions to vaccinations

For female dogs, the situation is more complex. The number of health benefits associated with spaying may
exceed the associated health problems in some (not all) cases. On balance, whether spaying improves the
odds of overall good health or degrades them probably depends on the age of the female dog and the
relative risk of various diseases in the different breeds.

On the positive side, spaying female dogs
• if done before 2.5 years of age, greatly reduces the risk of mammary tumors, the most common
malignant tumors in female dogs
• nearly eliminates the risk of pyometra, which otherwise would affect about 23% of intact female
dogs; pyometra kills about 1% of intact female dogs
• reduces the risk of perianal fistulas
• removes the very small risk (≤0.5%) from uterine, cervical, and ovarian tumors

On the negative side, spaying female dogs
• if done before 1 year of age, significantly increases the risk of osteosarcoma (bone cancer); this is a
common cancer in larger breeds with a poor prognosis
• increases the risk of splenic hemangiosarcoma by a factor of 2.2 and cardiac hemangiosarcoma by
a factor of >5; this is a common cancer and major cause of death in some breeds
• triples the risk of hypothyroidism
• increases the risk of obesity by a factor of 1.6-2, a common health problem in dogs with many
associated health problems
• causes urinary “spay incontinence” in 4-20% of female dogs
• increases the risk of persistent or recurring urinary tract infections by a factor of 3-4
• increases the risk of recessed vulva, vaginal dermatitis, and vaginitis, especially for female dogs
spayed before puberty
• doubles the small risk (<1%) of urinary tract tumors
• increases the risk of orthopedic disorders
• increases the risk of adverse reactions to vaccinations

One thing is clear – much of the spay/neuter information that is available to the public is unbalanced and
contains claims that are exaggerated or unsupported by evidence. Rather than helping to educate pet

owners, much of it has contributed to common misunderstandings about the health risks and benefits
associated of spay/neuter in dogs.


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## Katie Chumlee and Shorty (Oct 22, 2010)

Finally people are starting to realize different ways to feed their dogs and that it is better for them. Soon they will realize spay/neutering and vaccinations and flea treatment poisons aren't what they seem to be. Breeders are now extending their spay/neuter contracts to 18 months of age or more because of these health risks. People think Chum's nuts are funny and wonder why he isn't "fixed" yet. First of all I'm not required to do so he is fully registered and second of all if I decide to neuter him it will be after 30 months of age when a Bulldog is done growing structurally. They are just jealous because his nuts are bigger than theirs I guess  That is awesome that you did a partial spay on your girl many many kudos to you!


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## cprcheetah (Jul 14, 2010)

Katie Chumlee and Shorty said:


> Finally people are starting to realize different ways to feed their dogs and that it is better for them. Soon they will realize spay/neutering and vaccinations and flea treatment poisons aren't what they seem to be. Breeders are now extending their spay/neuter contracts to 18 months of age or more because of these health risks. People think Chum's nuts are funny and wonder why he isn't "fixed" yet. First of all I'm not required to do so he is fully registered and second of all if I decide to neuter him it will be after 30 months of age when a Bulldog is done growing structurally. They are just jealous because his nuts are bigger than theirs I guess  That is awesome that you did a partial spay on your girl many many kudos to you!


Ha Ha...that's my hubby's reasoning for not letting me get a Great Dane....he doesn't want a do who is 'bigger' than he is LMAO. I have worked for my dad/vet for 20+ years, and so this is a whole new territory, and something I wanted to do right. She has only had the 2 sets of puppy shots she had before I got her and that is all she will EVER have. I have seen the damage vaccines can do, and don't want her to go through that. My dad wants to write an article and publish it in the paper to educate people about the proper age to spay as well as the possibility of having them partially spayed. I'm excited. Ziva's my first fully 'naturally' reared dog....well from month 4 on. I just wish I knew this information sooner. I lost a Giant Schnauzer to Osteosarcoma 13 years ago, lost a Rottie to Transitional Cell Sarcoma....they were both fixed at an early age, and both were under 4 years old when they died.


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## BrownieM (Aug 30, 2010)

I wish I would have waited to spay Millie! My breeder wanted her spayed by 6 months though  and the vet pushed for 4 months. I compromised by spaying her at 5 months and guess what? She's on estrogen for urinary incontinence...

The article that you posted above was given to me right before I decided to have her spayed. I wish I would have listened to the article more. I agreed with the article, but I just felt so torn because _that article_ and some friends on a poodle forum were the only sources telling me to wait. Everyone/everything else was pushing to spay early. There were so many pressures to have her spayed early and I just had a very hard time sorting out all of the information.

cprcheetah, I am very intrigued by the partial spay. I would love to learn more about this. If I ever have another female in the future, I will be waiting as long as possible to spay her. I also may consider this partial spay!


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## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

Thanks for posting this info, its really interesting and seems very logical. I've never even heard of a partial spey but now I'm wishing it was an option when I speyed my 6 month old pup 3-1/2 years ago.
I know I'm spouting off again, but your Dad sounds like my dream vet. Can you ask him again if he wants to move to FL?


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## Katie Chumlee and Shorty (Oct 22, 2010)

cprcheetah said:


> Ha Ha...that's my hubby's reasoning for not letting me get a Great Dane....he doesn't want a do who is 'bigger' than he is LMAO. I have worked for my dad/vet for 20+ years, and so this is a whole new territory, and something I wanted to do right. She has only had the 2 sets of puppy shots she had before I got her and that is all she will EVER have. I have seen the damage vaccines can do, and don't want her to go through that. My dad wants to write an article and publish it in the paper to educate people about the proper age to spay as well as the possibility of having them partially spayed. I'm excited. Ziva's my first fully 'naturally' reared dog....well from month 4 on. I just wish I knew this information sooner. I lost a Giant Schnauzer to Osteosarcoma 13 years ago, lost a Rottie to Transitional Cell Sarcoma....they were both fixed at an early age, and both were under 4 years old when they died.


So heartbreaking, I couldn't imagine loosing my babies so early.

ps. you could get a girl Great Dane then there wouldn't be any package comparisons :wink:


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## cprcheetah (Jul 14, 2010)

BrownieM said:


> I wish I would have waited to spay Millie! My breeder wanted her spayed by 6 months though  and the vet pushed for 4 months. I compromised by spaying her at 5 months and guess what? She's on estrogen for urinary incontinence...
> 
> The article that you posted above was given to me right before I decided to have her spayed. I wish I would have listened to the article more. I agreed with the article, but I just felt so torn because _that article_ and some friends on a poodle forum were the only sources telling me to wait. Everyone/everything else was pushing to spay early. There were so many pressures to have her spayed early and I just had a very hard time sorting out all of the information.
> 
> cprcheetah, I am very intrigued by the partial spay. I would love to learn more about this. If I ever have another female in the future, I will be waiting as long as possible to spay her. I also may consider this partial spay!


It was actually a VERY lengthy decision for me, discussing it with my dad/vet, and researching everything I could find online. I even had some people who want me to breed her since she is such a tiny min pin (she came from a petstore so I don't think so), and NOT very good reason to breed a dog. I have ALWAYS spayed my dogs before they were 6 months old, well except the dogs I have bred, went through mammary cancer with my standard poodle girl Cassie, whom had puppies and wasn't spayed till she was almost 7, it spread and that's what ultimately killed her (spread to her abdomen), however she was also vax'd every year faithfully, on kibble her entire life etc, which from my research also leads to those types of cancers. I am glad that my dad was willing to 'humor' me so to speak with Ziva, I am trying to do things as naturally as possible with her. I even toyed with the idea of leaving her intact but then decided I didn't want the pyometra risk and dealing with the bloody heat cycles. I did wait until Shellie was 13 months old to spay her, so far no incontinence issues with her. 



MollyWoppy said:


> Thanks for posting this info, its really interesting and seems very logical. I've never even heard of a partial spey but now I'm wishing it was an option when I speyed my 6 month old pup 3-1/2 years ago.
> I know I'm spouting off again, but your Dad sounds like my dream vet. Can you ask him again if he wants to move to FL?


Ha Ha.....he would miss his grandbabies too much...and he is actually past the point of retiring...he's 65+ years old. But still is pretty sharp.



Katie Chumlee and Shorty said:


> So heartbreaking, I couldn't imagine loosing my babies so early.
> 
> ps. you could get a girl Great Dane then there wouldn't be any package comparisons :wink:


I actually lost multiple dogs to cancer in the same year, I had rescued all of them except for 2 (giant schnauzer, rottie, cocker, miniature schnauzer, collie (she was older though), 2 labradors)...that's when I learned Science Diet = Science Death.....quit feeding it then and there and have only lost 2 dogs to cancer since, one was 13 years old due to mammary cancer, the other was 7 years old to lymphoma. But losing dogs who were 2 & 3 years old KILLED me. I've had a male & female dane before, Kronos my boy who was brindle & Ruby Luna who as a ginormous female (165#) blue, and I miss them dearly. Hubby is NOT a fan of big dogs, but I keep telling him I'm GOING to have a Black female dane named Katana one day whether he likes it or not.


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## SerenityFL (Sep 28, 2010)

Hmmm. This has been very informative. I didn't even know this was an option.

Too late for my hoodlums now but I'll definitely read everything and research for any mutts I may have in the future.

Does this go for cats as well or just dogs?


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## Katie Chumlee and Shorty (Oct 22, 2010)

Heather:

That is so funny because the guy that sits on the other side of the couch isn't too thrilled about me getting a Male Cane Corso and naming him Othello and he is going to be black with white on his chest. I thought I was the only one that had them picked and named and their markings picked and decision was final. I told him when he accepts it then I will no longer refer to him as "the guy that sits on the other side of the couch.":biggrin:


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## RachelsaurusRexU (Sep 4, 2010)

Thanks for the info! This is definitely something I'll be looking into.


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## 3Musketeers (Nov 4, 2010)

Well, on the obesity side, I won't argue since there is scientific evidence behind it, I'm just choosing not to believe it in it's entirety.

I had Patchie spayed at around 2 years of age(4 years ago), it was mainly due to being dependent of my parents and not being able to do so before she had puppies, because THEY didn't want to pay for it. But in the end I got my way, and the puppies ended up going to family and friends. 
Getting back on topic, yes, she was tubby after that, but she was on horrible kibble, immediately after she got switched to a better quality kibble, and even more now on raw, she started losing weight, and is a little underweight now probably.

Popi was spayed at 6-1/2 months, she is and always has been at an ideal weight. She doesn't have incontinence or anything else. But, I cannot say if this is because of the age I got her spayed at or because of "luck", or inherited genes.

Sparky is intact. He doesn't get to roam around anywhere, and he is definitely a tiny bit overweight (he was heavier on bad-kibble).

I know three dogs isn't enough to prove this, but I feel the obesity issue may be more due to diet rather than the dog being spayed/neutered. Ya know, with the millions of owners out there that free-feed dog chow, beneful and related crap. 
I used to believe spaying/neutering would make them obese, but my own experience definitely leaves me with doubts.

On another thought: Didn't know half-spaying was even an option .


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## BrownieM (Aug 30, 2010)

3Musketeers said:


> Well, on the obesity side, I won't argue since there is scientific evidence behind it, I'm just choosing not to believe it in it's entirety.
> 
> I had Patchie spayed at around 2 years of age(4 years ago), it was mainly due to being dependent of my parents and not being able to do so before she had puppies, because THEY didn't want to pay for it. But in the end I got my way, and the puppies ended up going to family and friends.
> Getting back on topic, yes, she was tubby after that, but she was on horrible kibble, immediately after she got switched to a better quality kibble, and even more now on raw, she started losing weight, and is a little underweight now probably.
> ...


I can't imagine Millie becoming obese due to being spayed. It just doesn't seem like it should happen as long as I feed her the correct amount. I mean, I check her body condition frequently...If I lose her ribs, I will cut down the food. Easy peasy, right?

Sure, she may need less food now that she is spayed. But c'mon now! I need less food now than I used to too!


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## BrownieM (Aug 30, 2010)

A ha. Look what I came across!! 

A New and Safer Way to Spay Your Puppy - Whole Dog Journal Article

I could kick myself in the arse for not waiting to spay Millie.


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