# Animal Behaviourist



## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

I am seriously contemplating and am researching animal behaviourists for little Joey at the moment. Has anyone had any experience with them? Any tips on what to look out for, what questions to ask about their methods? I've had one quote for $850 for a 2-4 hour session, but it includes lifetime follow up via email or phone. Do you think this is a reasonable price? I just wonder if problems can be diagnosed and fixed (well, that wouldn't include the work I need to put in following the session of course) in that short of a period.
I've never had a dog like this and whilst I can manage him physically at the moment I'm starting to feel like I'm out of my league and it scares me like hell that if I can't get a handle on his behaviour by the time he's much bigger then he's going to be a huge liability.


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## lauren43 (Feb 6, 2011)

If you can find a good one then go for it! Is this person certified in any way? If your paying that kind of money I would be looking for certification, good references, and some sort of CDPT as well. You want to get what your paying for!

I think you could even get a good positive reinforcement trainer that could help you tons. Guarding is a tough issue but its definitely something that can be managed and cured even.


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## sozzle (May 18, 2011)

Hi MollyWoppy - sorry I don't have any experience with animals behaviourists (although I could tell you the name of two well known kiwi ones which wouldn't be much use in Florida). However have you looked at Sophia Yin's site? Veterinarian and Animal Behaviorist | Dr. Sophia Yin, DVM, MS You may have heard about her, not sure how good she is or how useful but I had her site bookmarked and occasionally have a squiz at some of her training videos.
Good luck with your puppy.


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## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

Thank you guys. I'm in the process of going right back to step one now. Had another bad episode last night and I inwardly freak out wondering if I'm doing the right thing, can I actually help him or does he have some type of mental problem, because his aggression is showing up in other areas where it doesn't appear to me that possessiveness/guarding is the problem.
On the other hand, maybe I'm wrong and just not reading him right. So this is where I now think I need help. 
He has bad, really bad aggression. 

Oh, I just had to laugh sozzle, I'm reading through that website you gave me (it's awesome, thank you) and here's Joey, on the front cover of her book. Seriously, it's the absolute spitting image of him! :smile:


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## lauren43 (Feb 6, 2011)

Where are you looking? Do they have a website? Of anyone says "pack" or "leadership" or "dominance" run, run far far away. I also don't like the ones that take your dog for 2 weeks or whatever. For two reasons (1) you have no clue what they are doing to your dog (2) it's hard for you to take over with only 1-2 sessions of training from the trainer..


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## lauren43 (Feb 6, 2011)

Anne Boland

Distance: 49.57 mi
5600 Cypress Hollow Way
Naples, FL
United States
+1 (239) 216-1100
Services Offered:
Clicker training classes

She maybe a little far for you and I'm not sure if she does behavior modification or private classes but I'd give her a try...she's certified by the program I'm currently going through..


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## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

Will Thomas Dog Whisperer Home Page
I don't know why, I just feel uneasy about this. 

FAQ-Appointments
I'm going to call these people tomorrow and get some idea of prices. I feel more comfortable with these people.

And, nope, I agree, there's no way Joey's going to any boot camp, he's got enough problems without me handing him over to some stranger and subjecting him to God knows what. I do believe with every ounce of my being that it's fear based. My vet thinks it's a dominance problem and I should be putting him on his side, but his body language during his episodes is suggesting strongly to me that it's fear.


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## lauren43 (Feb 6, 2011)

I didn't look at the first one but that 2nd one looks awesome! It seems like they use science based behavior modification and you also have a vet who can prescribe meds if necessary..


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## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

Sorry, I didn't see your first link with the girl in Naples. I'll have a look at her too.


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## Herzo (Feb 5, 2011)

Penny I wish I had some good advice for you but I don't. I just wanted to say I'm so sorry he has all this aggression in him. It is so hard to imagine how a pup so young can have this problem.

You would think that it would go fast out of his mind now that he is safe and sound. An old dog now I can see where there's is harder to get a handle on but such a young pup just boggles my mind. Good luck I hope you can work him through this.


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## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

Thanks Herzo. He has got a lot better around food, with me. I'm hand feeding him. But bring other dogs anywhere into the equation and he attacks and then redirects on to me. He's like one of those alligators on Gatorboys, lunging towards me, 4 paws off the ground, trying his hardest to bite me as hard as he can. 
He doesn't feel pain (he missed me and lunged into a chair Saturday night, it must have hurt like hell). 
I couldn't get hold of his leash because he was coming for me. I stand my ground so all I could do was grab him behind his neck to protect both Mollie and myself. He gets this glassy, starey, very hard look in his eyes, ears pricked, hackles raising, licking lips (alot), raises his lip, starts lunging trying to bite, snarls constantly and goes into a zone where nothing can get through to him or calm him down. Then when I eventually do get him to sit and look at me, he snaps out of it, eyes go soft, wags his tail and it's like nothings happened.
He did the same thing with our neighbours grandchild the other day, playing lovely with her, then his pug friend, whom he plays with a lot, came within 3 feet and he launched an attack on the pug. 
So it's escalating to things other than food. I have to be doing something wrong, or I'm missing some part of the equation, I just don't know. 
He just can't do this when he's fully grown, it's a disaster waiting to happen.


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

Mollywoppy - sounds like you are dealing with some rabies vacc issues also which can't be handled by a behaviorist. 

Liz


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## lauren43 (Feb 6, 2011)

From what you are saying now and everything else you've said, it seems to me you have an extreme guarder on your hands. And if most of his guarding starts with other animals and redirects then I'd say its time to limit his exposure to other animals. I know all you are trying to do is socialize him, but he is not yet ready for the challenge. I would say the only play time he gets it with a known dog, in a environment with nothing he can guard. That may mean putting up a low baby gate (so you can get in there quickly if need be) and watching play time from outside of it. You have to be extra super digilent to make sure there is nothing, I mean nothing in the environment he can guard. And I would only allow play time 1-2 times per week in this kind of a setting. No toys, no treats, no people. Then stop play time, ask for a sit and call it a day. 

I would also no longer feed him out in the open. It sounds like for him that is a high stress situation. He needs to be crated or put in another room. Penny you may have to just always keep him and Mollie apart during eating time, right now with him rehearsing the reaction he is not learning. I personally have no problem with animals guarding from other animals, its natural. But with him it is so extreme and I understand why you want to nip this in the bud. So here's my two cents. Feed Mollie and Joey on the opposite sides of a door. Mollie could be left to her own, but watch Joey's reactions, if he is snarling, growling, even doing a lip lick, he is too close to the door. Move him back until he is eating comfortably, then offer him more food whenever possible (perhaps breaking his meals into little chunks will work best). Then once he is very comfortable, move him slowly (over days weeks months) closer to the door. Once he is comfortably eating practically right next to the door. You can move to him being able to see Mollie, but I would still have Mollie gated, so he can see her and not get to her and starting over a room apart (20ft or more) just watch Joey, he will let you know if he needs more space. You want him to be relaxed while he's eating, not on edge. Then slowly get closer to Mollie, watching Joey for his comfort level (this again could take months or weeks).

I think this is a great time to have a behaviorist look at him. I do not believe this is something that can not be fixed or at least managed. (I'm sorry Liz, first time ever disagreeing with you, I still love you though!)


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

i think you're both right.

not only was this dog vax'd too early, he was neutered and is now going through the hormonal craziness.....

so i would be approaching this both ways.......supps and herbs for the physical portion of this horror show this poor puppy is going through and also a behaviourist to help penny handle the behaviour the physical is causing......


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## flashyfawn (Mar 8, 2012)

MollyWoppy said:


> Will Thomas Dog Whisperer Home Page
> I don't know why, I just feel uneasy about this.


No, just. . . no. Go with your gut on this guy. Joey will thank you for it. 

Veterinary behaviorists are relatively few and far between so since you have access to one, that's what I would do, without a doubt. I paid somewhere around $500 for my consult about 5 years ago and I wish I had done it sooner, it would have saved a lot of heartache. I do have unlimited follow up for the life of my dog and I still call the behaviorist when I need med refills. Right now I only check in about once a year because my dog is very stable, as far as behavior. Maybe not totally normal, but very easily manageable and most people who meet her now would never know what she used to be like.

If you go this route, be prepared that they may suggest putting Joey on medicine. I'm not saying they will or they won't, I really have no idea. But some people are totally against any kind of behavior related drug for a dog, so to me it's just something you need to think about. My dog is on two different anxiety meds and I'm not kidding when I say they saved her life. They did not change her personality at all and they did not fix her issues--instead, they allowed all the behavior modification to actually work because her brain wasn't clouded in constant fear anymore. We have no plans to take her off the meds, aside from a situation where she develops a health issue and drug interactions would be a concern. My dog was a guarder but otherwise had different issues than Joey has, so your experience may be totally different. All I can say is her quality of life is light years better than what it used to be. I can't imagine what it must be like to live in an unending state of anxiety, never able to totally relax. Now, happily, my dog doesn't remember that feeling either. 

I don't know about any possible link to the rabies vaccine, but I will only say that when my dog was a puppy, she would get significantly worse after getting her shots. It did not last a long time and I definitely think it's debatable as to whether it was the vaccine or simply the tremendous amount of stress she was in over a vet visit. I did two rounds of the puppy series (she was 4 mos when I got her and hadn't had any vaccines or vet visits at all due to idiot owners) and then stopped. She does still get rabies every 3 years but that's it.


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## catahoulamom (Sep 23, 2010)

Penny, there is a very good Veterinary Behaviorist in the Port St Lucie/Stuart area (Jensen Beach actually) at Savannah Animal Hospital. I can't remember her name but she is accredited and works with my aunt who is a +R trainer (she has worked w/ some dogs who needed severe behavior modification as well - she is an accredited CPDT if I'm not mistaken). Her name is Ileana and she also works at the hospital. I do not know how far they are from you, but thought I'd let you know just in case. I'm sorry you are going through this with Joey.


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## lauren43 (Feb 6, 2011)

flashyfawn said:


> No, just. . . no. Go with your gut on this guy. Joey will thank you for it.
> 
> Veterinary behaviorists are relatively few and far between so since you have access to one, that's what I would do, without a doubt. I paid somewhere around $500 for my consult about 5 years ago and I wish I had done it sooner, it would have saved a lot of heartache. I do have unlimited follow up for the life of my dog and I still call the behaviorist when I need med refills. Right now I only check in about once a year because my dog is very stable, as far as behavior. Maybe not totally normal, but very easily manageable and most people who meet her now would never know what she used to be like.
> 
> ...


I agree they may suggest meds. I for one am not against them when you've tried all other options.


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## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

Yes Liz, I hear you and thank you. Courtney brought that aspect up too, it's something that hadn't even occurred to me. I'm reading about Lyssin and rabies detox now, but I'll hop over to Facebook and look at your files and talk about it there. I know I've seen you discussing this subject about detoxing somewhere, so I will find it, I don't want to bother you by making you do everything twice Liz.
And, thinking about it, I will cover this from all angles, homeopathic and behavioural, just to be on the safe side. (haha! I had written this out before I updated the page and read your post Re)!
Thanks too Lauren. Couple of things. I was feeding on the other side of the door to the garage out of sight of Mol and I thought he was doing great, his eating was slowing down and he's doing 'trick's for every morsel he gets. So, I brought him inside, about 15' from where Mollie eats. She gets her dinner first then I hand feed him once he sits and 'looks at me'. He did sit down and do his 'trick's' (sit, lie down, touch, leave etc) but was frantically gobbling his food so it was obviously a bit too much too soon and we went back out to the garage again.
This latest setback which I described above, started after coming back from a walk, a couple of hours before dinner. (Dinner time is staggered so not to set any expectations). I could see afterwards (thats my problem, I pick up on things too slowly) that he started 'guarding' the kitchen, which, in his shoes, I can understand why. So now if he displays any lip licking (the start of his spazzies) I will take him out of the kitchen and leash him to the dining room table leg, or outside onto the lanai until he calms down.
The guarding of the kid next door threw me for a loop. So I hear you when you are saying to limit and more strictly supervise his interaction with other dogs and things/people that can be guarded. I will do that from now on.

And yes FF, I am listening. Thanks for telling me about your experience, it really gives me a lot of peace. It sounds like you've been somewhere similar and have come out the other side really non too worse for wear. That helps a lot. And nope, definitely not going to that first guy! 

And thanks for that info Catahoulamom, the clinic I'm looking at is actually in Stuart as well. I'll definitely keep that name in mind. Thanks appreciate it.

Thank for your help you guys, I really appreciate it, feel a lot better now!


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## Rvent (Apr 15, 2012)

I have been looking for a behaviorist/trainer, I took Babs to Tuftss to see Dr. Dodman, very expensive and doesn't do in home. I found this site and it has helped

Home


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## Jan Fred (Jul 23, 2013)

Hello, I'm Jan Fred a newly member of this beautiful forum that you have. I don't know if this is right place to ask about my dog's behavior. Actually, I get them right from the corner of the street, they are dirty and hungry back then, my question is: Is there anything that I can do to let them forget about their past? I can feel that they are afraid sometimes, and it badly affects me.


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## Soda (Feb 27, 2012)

Jan Fred said:


> Hello, I'm Jan Fred a newly member of this beautiful forum that you have. I don't know if this is right place to ask about my dog's behavior. Actually, I get them right from the corner of the street, they are dirty and hungry back then, my question is: Is there anything that I can do to let them forget about their past? I can feel that they are afraid sometimes, and it badly affects me.


Hi, Jan  You may have more luck getting answers if you make your own thread in the Dog Training section. When you make your thread try giving more details to help people understand the situation and they should be able to help you more/faster.


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