# Meat to bone ration - What are the % numbers?



## AdrianVall

Hey guys,

I know your supposed to be giving a guideline of 80% meat, 10% bone and 10% organ.. but what I'm wondering is, what meal items have how much percentage of meat to bone.

For instance..

Are chicken backs 50% meat and %50 bone?

What about chicken quarters, turkey necks, ect ect.. ? 

Just curious so that I can get an idea of what 80% meat really is, ya know?


----------



## luvMyBRT

In the words of RFD "Your over thinking this!" :biggrin: I know from experience...I tend to over think too. 

Just feed mostly meat, some bone, some organ. Keep an eye on body condition and poops and it will all even out over time. :biggrin:


----------



## DaneMama

I think you're thinking about this a bit too much :wink:

First off, every dog is different. Some will require more bone to stay "regular" and some will require less. Let your dog be the one to tell you how much bone he needs by keeping a close eye on bowel movements. After a while it should become second nature to you for know what your dog can handle and what he can't.


----------



## deb9017

These kind of posts are freaking me out. Cause I don't really measure anything. I just sort of pick some stuff, and feed it to him. Making sure he gets organs sometimes, etc. Maybe I am underthinking???


----------



## DaneMama

As long as youre feeding a good variety of mostly meat, some bones and some organs you're in good shape. As long as your dogs condition is at least good (if not fantastic) and he acts normally, you're in good shape.


----------



## RawFedDogs

deb9017 said:


> These kind of posts are freaking me out. Cause I don't really measure anything. I just sort of pick some stuff, and feed it to him. Making sure he gets organs sometimes, etc. Maybe I am underthinking???


No, your thinking is 100% dead on. In 8 years of raw feeding I have never measured or weighed anything I've fed. I feed a variety of animal parts and let nature work out the ratios.

For the person that asked ...
Chicken backs are 44% bone.
Breasts are 20% bone. 
Quarters 35% bone. 
All white meat total is 28% bone. 
Whole chicken (broilers & fryers) are 31%. 
Whole roasting chickens are 27%. 
Cornish game hens are 39% bone. 
Wings are 46% and necks are 36% bone. 
drumstick is 33% and thigh 21% bone
Turkey necks are 42% bone
Turkey backs are 40% bone
Turkey wings are 33% bone

All these figures are per UDSA web site.


----------



## AdrianVall

RawFedDogs said:


> No, your thinking is 100% dead on. In 8 years of raw feeding I have never measured or weighed anything I've fed. I feed a variety of animal parts and let nature work out the ratios.
> 
> For the person that asked ...
> Chicken backs are 44% bone.
> Breasts are 20% bone.
> Quarters 35% bone.
> All white meat total is 28% bone.
> Whole chicken (broilers & fryers) are 31%.
> Whole roasting chickens are 27%.
> Cornish game hens are 39% bone.
> Wings are 46% and necks are 36% bone.
> drumstick is 33% and thigh 21% bone
> Turkey necks are 42% bone
> Turkey backs are 40% bone
> Turkey wings are 33% bone
> 
> All these figures are per UDSA web site.


That's exactly what I was worried about. I feed a lot of chicken quarters, backs, and turkey necks. I feed boneless pork meat when I have it, but with chicken backs/quarters, and now the beef hearts that I just bought. My dogs stool look great though! 

I don't understand how you should only be feeding 10% bone. I mean, I know its a guideline, but is it crucial that you do that percentage?


----------



## sassymaxmom

I do try to minimize the bone in the food. It is really addictive watching the dog enjoy eating them and super easy to over do it. Too much bone is too much calcium which might bind zinc which might cause trouble. However comparing my dog's actual needs for calcium to the calcium found in kibbles shows that anybody offering premium kibbles is probably over doing calcium anyway. Canidae, for example, has 1.8% Ca. If Max ate 100 grams of Canidae a day he would be eating 1.8 grams or 1800 mg of Ca when his requirement is only 1200 mg Ca per day. So I am not too concerned that Max gets 15% bone on average if that is what he is getting. 

Anywho here are some numbers for you. Use as a guideline only!
Abyssinian Homepage - Nutrition

You can also put in raw chicken, turkey, duck, pork and beef and get waste bone here on the analysis page for some cuts.
http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/

I needed this information as Max didn't do well with boneless days so I needed to find smaller bone for him to eat. Small whole sardines and mackerel ought to be 10% bone so I figured a 2 ounce or 56 gram sardine might have 5.6 grams of bone in it! And that would be enough bone for him that day. A chicken wing was too much bone and part of a chicken wing is too small to feed safely. Chicken feet are just about what he needs on a daily basis, love having those things. Fun to crunch up, seem to be hard to gulp.

I also need to avoid feeding too much bone. That whole chicken fed through last week even with organs added was far too much bone for him. That venison bony chunk even though I gave him meat was too much bone since he decided to eat the whole thing!


----------



## luvMyBRT

AdrianVall said:


> I don't understand how you should only be feeding 10% bone. I mean, I know its a guideline, but is it crucial that you do that percentage?


Your still just starting out!! As your dogs get further into the raw diet they will be able to handle more and more meals without bone. You feed so much bone in the beginning to keep stools firm while your dog transitions.


----------



## DaneMama

Sara brings a very, very important piece of the situation to the table...when starting out feeding raw you should be feeding about 2-3 (20-30% bone at least for the first month...) times as much bone as an experienced raw eater should get. Again, the increased bone is to minimize diarrhea and make the overall transition easier for you and the dog. If you tried transitioning a dog with just ~10% bone most likely you'd see diarrhea, which would turn a lot of people off of raw right off the bat. And again, the 80/10/10 percentages are JUST a guideline. These values are approximate and not set in stone. It's just there to give people an idea of how much bone, how much muscle meat and how much organ to feed on a daily basis.


----------



## Mia

I still portion everything :tongue:...
Just because I need to.


----------



## AdrianVall

Great! Thanks so much for the advice and replies guys. I very much appreciate it.

I think its about time to try and start finding more bonless/less bone meat sources. My dogs are transitioning WONDERFULLY now. I'll slowly try to start decreasing the bone content to see how it goes. I think I'm on my 7th week or PMR.


----------



## sassymaxmom

Relax, early days yet. Wait until all the usual meats and organs are fine and dandy with your dogs first. Especially the organs!


----------



## magicre

as the months go by, my dogs get fewer and fewer bones....and they are smallish dogs...

in the beginning, they got bone every meal, then every day once a meal....then every other day...

now it depends on their poo...a little soft, they get a boney meal.....too crumbly, they get a boneless meal..

they now get bone maybe every three days or so.....just to firm things up....or keep them firm..

i am one of those who measure..and i do like to know the nutritional value of things...
the reason i measure is i suck at eyeballing...and pugs gain weight looking at food...

i haven't quite gone 'round the bend - but i will look certain foods up..

here's the link...you'll probably use it for a while and once you're into this for longer, you'll just feed variety and start relaxing....because if i can...you can...and i never thought i would....

http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/


----------



## Brad

sassymaxmom said:


> Too much bone is too much calcium which might bind zinc which might cause trouble.



There's a difference between synthetic additives and real calcium from bones though. 

I don't think any pediatrician would suggest a kid take his grandmother's clacium pills, but I don't think any of them would tell you the kid drinks too much milk either.

I do agree that each dog is different and you should be watching stools though. If the dog gets constipated regularly, add more meat. If they're too loose, more bone. As simple as that. I have 2 bullmastiffs that do perfectly fine on necks and backs as 90% of their diet while my frenchie gets a little more meat.


----------



## magicre

Brad said:


> There's a difference between synthetic additives and real calcium from bones though.
> 
> I don't think any pediatrician would suggest a kid take his grandmother's clacium pills, but I don't think any of them would tell you the kid drinks too much milk either.
> 
> I do agree that each dog is different and you should be watching stools though. If the dog gets constipated regularly, add more meat. If they're too loose, more bone. As simple as that. I have 2 bullmastiffs that do perfectly fine on necks and backs as 90% of their diet while my frenchie gets a little more meat.


i can't say that 44% bone for your big guys is terribly nutritious....but if it works for your guys, that's great...

may i ask why your bullmastiff's only get necks and backs as 90% of their diet?

but you are right about nature's calcium as opposed to manufacturer's calcium....it is, in deed, different.


----------



## Brad

I feed alot of bones because I beleive the bones bring alot more than calcium to the diet. They're full of other vitamins and minerals that meat is lacking. I believe bones are very nutritious. Don't get me wrong, they need their meat as well, but personally I find 10% low.


----------



## magicre

Brad said:


> I feed alot of bones because I beleive the bones bring alot more than calcium to the diet. They're full of other vitamins and minerals that meat is lacking. I believe bones are very nutritious. Don't get me wrong, they need their meat as well, but personally I find 10% low.


every dog is different and requires their own bone profile. i thought i had read that your mastiffs get 90% necks and backs...not much meat on those...

for my dogs, i agree, too, that 10% for them is too low....judging by their stools.....but they also get meaty meat, too.....do yours? just sayin' they need meat, too..and there isn't much meat on backs and necks....


----------



## sassymaxmom

Bone Meal
"The mineral content of steamed bone meal by percentage is calcium, 30.71 percent; phosphorus, 12.86 percent; sodium, 5.69 percent; magnesium, 0.33 percent; potassium, 0.19 percent; and sulfur, 2.51 percent. Other microminerals include copper, iodine, iron, manganese and zinc."

Here is a really complete analysis
Bone Meal, LaBudde

There is also about 30% collagen in bone. 

I will stick to mostly meat with a little bone for Max. Meat is higher in the minerals and vitamins I want in his diet other than calcium and phosphorus.


----------



## Brad

Look at the meat on there 

These backs are the base of the diet with meat meals maybe 2-3 times a week.


----------



## magicre

Brad said:


> Look at the meat on there
> 
> These backs are the base of the diet with meat meals maybe 2-3 times a week.


wow. the backs i buy don't look at ALL like that. now i see why you feed them


----------



## RawFedDogs

Brad said:


> Look at the meat on there
> 
> These backs are the base of the diet with meat meals maybe 2-3 times a week.


If that is a 1yo bull mastiff eating that piece of meat, thats not a chicken back. Maybe a turkey back or some other kind of bird back but not a chicken back like you buy in stores.


----------



## Jodysmom

My chicken backs are sometimes that meaty too. It just depends on how much meat they leave on it.


----------



## luvMyBRT

Yeah! My chicken backs are half that big. I want some of those! :biggrin:

Are those two backs? Or just one? 

The other night Duncan had a turkey back for dinner and it looked just like that.


----------



## Brad

It's a 12 week old bullmastiff puppy. The backs I get are neck to tail. I can't find turkey here. Wish I could..


----------



## malluver1005

deb9017 said:


> These kind of posts are freaking me out. Cause I don't really measure anything. I just sort of pick some stuff, and feed it to him. Making sure he gets organs sometimes, etc. Maybe I am underthinking???


Exactly what I do.


----------

