# Raw feeding Woes.



## wolfsnaps88 (Jan 2, 2012)

Ugh. I am frustrated. Like you, I have done my research and want to do the best for my dogs and cat. I decided to do more raw and less kibble. Last week, we did venison all week. I had a small issue with my little dog have oily black poop but that's because he wasn't getting any bone. So gross, but I chalk that up to being MY fault. 

I found a good deal on chicken quarters. I bought about thirty pounds to get us started. I fed everyone. The first day, the lab did not want any. He tried to bury all of his in the snow. (I fed them outside because I had no other place to feed them). I gave him some more venison. The mastiff stole the labs food. The doxie mix ate turkey neck and venison (just a small piece.)

I got a food scale so all amounts were right on. 

The lab puked. I don't know why.

NEXT DAY: I gave them all chicken quarters only. The lab and the dachshund mix have had chicken before as I have done raw before. We are just rusty. And now I am remembering why. The mastiff has had chicken before too but only on occasion. The cat ate the first night and snubbed it the second night. 

Again the lab did not want to eat the chicken. He buried his in the snow. The mastiff ate his portion and the doxie ate only a small fraction of his meal. This was last night. This morning I let the dogs out and the lab ate one of his chicken quarters. It was frozen but he ate it. The mastiff ate a frozen one too (the labs other quarter) and the doxie had a few bites of that too.

The mastiff and the doxie puked. EVERYWHERE. My carpet needs burned at this point and am on a lookout for a good price for carpets :/

Anyways, I feel defeated. Should I stop? Tonight I am either going to skip their meal altogether or feed them dry kibble. I need a break from cleaning puke. I want to do whats best for them but they either don't want it or puke it up later. I know going back and forth isn't the best thing to do either with raw ans kibble but I am afraid I am making them sick!


HELP!


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

NO DONT STOP!!!

Fast the dogs for 24 hours. (At the VERY LEAST 2 hours...but with the problems so far I would HIGHLY suggest a full 24 hour fast!)

Then get back on to JUST bone in chicken...NOTHING ELSE, no treats, no other foods offered. 

What they dont eat(or arent eating) in 15 minutes gets put away and offered at the next feeding(at least 4 hours down the road, but I suggest 8+!)




As for the kitty I suggest making him of a mix of raw foods, we always offer our cats at LEAST 2 meat sources(not always 2 proteins, but 2 different types of meat) as cats can EASILY be bored, picky, etc. So chop up(however larger/small he needs) some chicken with a little bone along with what ever other meats you have, maybe throw in some organs if you have them and prep for 3-4 days, put it in the fridge in a Tupperware and then you have kitty food!!:biggrin: :thumb: (That is how I make "cat food" for both my girls and how my Mum makes her boy's food!:wink


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

are you possibly overfeeding?

i know you're frustrated and i've been where you are.....only my kids got cannon butt for weeks....until i finally stabilised them...with the help of the wonderful people here.

i am not blessed with patience but after a hardcore nasty transition , mostly user error, i've learned how to move very slowly.

if you are overfeeding, they can puke. they can puke even if you're not overfeeding. they don't have food memory from when they were fed raw....so it's all new to them and to you....

make sure you feed about 1.5% of their ideal weight and for a while at least...until they stabilise, i would feed twice a day....and weigh each meal.

not all chicken quarters are created equally and i'm sure the doxie doesn't weigh as much as the mastiff....and if the doxie only ate a fraction, maybe the doxie only ate meat and not bone....who knows why some dogs do great and others need to be coaxed.

i know it's hard right now, but it's worth it. really, it is.

maybe instead of quarters, feed backs....or if you're feeding quarters, take the skin off....


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## lucky (Jan 8, 2011)

Abi and Magicre have both offered great advice  hope you stick with raw, it WILL work out in the end and all of the obstacles will seem minor


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## wolfsnaps88 (Jan 2, 2012)

The dachshund/poodle only seems to like the leg bone part. And the fat...:tsk:

I fed them 2.5% ish but only the mastiff actually finished his meal. And then some :tape2:

I am going to try and get backs soon. I think the doxie would like them as they are bonier. Will keep you updated.

I got a scale!!


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

wolfsnaps88 said:


> The dachshund/poodle only seems to like the leg bone part. And the fat...:tsk:
> 
> I fed them 2.5% ish but only the mastiff actually finished his meal. And then some :tape2:
> 
> ...


I agree with Re, you very well might be feeding just too much. 
I would DEFINITELY cut back to at the very most 2% and then go from there!:wink:

And also, remember, it isnt about just feeding what they like....if they dont eat it it gets taken up and then offered again at the next meal!:wink: :thumb:

And YAY for a scale...I find mine SOOOOO useful!!!!!


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## liquid (Dec 28, 2011)

Dont stop! Once you get past this, things will get SO much better!

I agree with everyone here. Fast for 24hrs, and cut the portions back, 2.5% is too much to start off with. It's great that you got a scale :biggrin1:
Stop letting the Mastiff eat the Lab's portions. That's probably why your Mastiff puked - overeating. You can either feed them separately or if your Mastiff knows the 'drop it' or 'leave it' command, you should use that to keep him from eating the other's food.

If the Lab is burying his food, he's "saving" it for later. Either he's being picky or he doesnt feel well - if he buries it, pick it up and give it to him at the next meal time. He needs to learn that if he doesnt eat now, then he doesnt eat. If he refuses to eat, dont support his pickiness by giving him other meat, he'll eventually learn to eat when given food.


Also, for your carpet... steam cleaners are your friend!


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## wolfsnaps88 (Jan 2, 2012)

Ok, just to update. The dachshund/poodle mix is pi$$ed about this forced fast. LOL. He is scratching the sterilte container where the kibble is kept and keeps throwing me this look. Yeah. This should be a fun night.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

teach them a lesson. throw out the kibble .


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

magicre said:


> teach them a lesson. throw out the kibble .


I was TOTALLY going to say the same thing!!!:tongue:


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## liquid (Dec 28, 2011)

magicre said:


> teach them a lesson. throw out the kibble .





Scarlett_O' said:


> I was TOTALLY going to say the same thing!!!:tongue:


Same!! LOL!
Or donate it to the local shelter :smile:


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

liquid said:


> Same!! LOL!
> Or donate it to the local shelter :smile:


That was my why of "tossing out"....I donated it!!!:wink:


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## barneysmom2510 (Oct 12, 2011)

I am new but could the mixing of kibble sometimes and raw sometimes cause an issue. I know when I started I did chicken backs for the first few days for my little ones and longer for Barney but he was having diarrhea issues. Maybe their stomachs are a bit off so they are hiding it until later or not eating because their tummies are upset? Maybe it was too soon for venison and they just need their poop frimed up with some backs? I agree toss the kibble and don't look back you won't regret it. When I decided to go raw AI got rid of all the kibble so if their were set backs I would not be tempted to give them it.


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## wolfsnaps88 (Jan 2, 2012)

Last night, Sarge (the dachshund/poodle) stayed under my bed and cried and cried. I did feel bad but I did not give in. He is overweight, he will be fine a day or two not eating. But the guilt trip made me sad. 

I am going to try again tonight but I am going to remove the fat and not feed them as much. I am also going to cut up Sarge's meal for now because he is lazy. I know he CAN eat the whole thing, but since we are going outside and its cold, I am going to help him out.

I called a local meat place here. I am going to order chicken backs and necks from them next week (they get them every friday fresh). Not a great price but I don't have a lot of options at the moment. But I would like to go to ALL raw. Wish us luck. Will see how it goes tonight as I know they are hungry.


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

wolfsnaps88 said:


> Last night, Sarge (the dachshund/poodle) stayed under my bed and cried and cried. I did feel bad but I did not give in. He is overweight, he will be fine a day or two not eating. But the guilt trip made me sad.
> 
> I am going to try again tonight but I am going to remove the fat and not feed them as much. I am also going to cut up Sarge's meal for now because he is lazy. I know he CAN eat the whole thing, but since we are going outside and its cold, I am going to help him out.
> 
> I called a local meat place here. I am going to order chicken backs and necks from them next week (they get them every friday fresh). Not a great price but I don't have a lot of options at the moment. But I would like to go to ALL raw. Wish us luck. Will see how it goes tonight as I know they are hungry.


GOOD LUCK!!!:wave:

I will be watching for updates!!:biggrin1:

Im sure you will all do fine.....biggest thing most people need to remember is that this is TOTALLY natural for dogs(and cats of course) so just relax and let them, and nature, take their course!!!:happy:


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

i drank a lot the first two months....don't know if that will help, but vodka became a good friend of mine and i totally learned how to make a martini before i fed the dogs.


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## wolfsnaps88 (Jan 2, 2012)

*Update*


Ok guys. I took all of your advise. I fasted them yesterday. Today I cut down their portions:










Hunter went from 2.5 lbs. to 1.5 lbs. Dozer went from 3.3 lbs to 2.5 lbs Sarge went from .5 lbs to a little over .25 lbs I know his looks like a lot but I cut his up and the scales don't lie. The cat's was harder to determine with the cheapo scale I got but its around 25 ounces I believe. The cat did not eat any of the smashed bone I offered. But at least she did eat the rest. 


Hunter ate it this time. No burying it in snow...besides, all the snow melted












I think Sarge liked that I cut his up...spoiled brat :redface:











Dozer took the longest to eat. After Hunter and Sargeant were done I let them inside. Dozer then immediately had to check their bowls for any missed bits...there weren't any. I think they were confused with eating outside in bowls. Its not the routine they are used to. They will get used to it. I don't usually use their bowls when I feed raw but now that I am more accuretly measuring, it helps. 


Anyways, thank you for following me on this journey and I appreciate all your tips and support!


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

Looks GREAT!!:biggrin1:

Oh and for the kitty you would probably be fine feeding her around 8 ounces, and generally they only need about 5-7% bone not a full 10 like dogs! My 2 girls split 1lbs, and my Mum's boy eats a half pound as well!:thumb:


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## wolfsnaps88 (Jan 2, 2012)

Thanks Scarlet. I don't think her portion was 25 ounces then. Its the one on the white plate. If I molded that raw chicken into a mouse, it wouldn't have been a very large mouse. 

I have a cheap scale. I will have to adjust to feeding her. I didn't know that about bone ratio, thanks. I am looking into whole prey for her though so hopefully I wont have to worry as much about weighing stuff.


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

wolfsnaps88 said:


> Thanks Scarlet. I don't think her portion was 25 ounces then. Its the one on the white plate. If I molded that raw chicken into a mouse, it wouldn't have been a very large mouse.
> 
> I have a cheap scale. I will have to adjust to feeding her. I didn't know that about bone ratio, thanks. I am looking into whole prey for her though so hopefully I wont have to worry as much about weighing stuff.


Ya if the little bowl was a 1/4 pound I would say that the kitty's plate was maybe a couple ounces. 

Cats can, and generally SHOULD, be fed multiple meals thru out the day though..so you could do what I do(and what my Mum does) and prep up the day's food then feed it as the cat asks for it!:thumb:

And I have this scale here, http://www.bedbathandbeyond.com/pro...ogle&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=shopping, paid $10 with taxes for it.....I wouldnt give it up for another scale if I had the chance, cheap or not....its AWESOME!!LOL :lol:


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## wolfsnaps88 (Jan 2, 2012)

So what I am realizing is that a pound of kibble lasts longer than a pound of raw around this house. 

I bought thirty pounds of chicken quarters for about 16-18 bucks with tax. It will last about a week! A WEEK! A thirty pound bag of kibble lasts almost a month. I never realized this before because I only did raw part time before. I weighed out my remaining chicken and portioned it out because I am tired of cutting/weighing/and cleaning every night. 











I feel defeated. If I get a job soon I will continue raw I think but with money being tight (and I think my fridge is on the fritz!) I don't see how raw is cheaper or equilvalant to kibble as far as cost. Even if it cost a 'little' more I would understand but feeding three dogs and a cat is more than I thought it would be. And those portions are on the light side at around 2%

Those portions will last four days except Dozer only has two days there. Will have to stop and pick him up two more days worth of food until I can order some more.

Also, I will be using tupperware containers in the future. I have a stockpile of ziplocs and I couldn't find enough larger tupperware containers. Tupperware will definitely be more cost effective.


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

How much were you spending on that 30lbs of cereal, what where you buying??

How much do they each weigh??


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## wolfsnaps88 (Jan 2, 2012)

The dog kibble I get varies but right now, as an example, I have Taste of the Wild. Its 30 lbs. and I paid 39.99 plus tax so lets say 43 bucks. It will last almost a month as every once in a while the dogs don't eat. I know, I don't blame them, that stuff gets old (boring). But if I am to do raw at this rate, 20 bucks a week so 80 bucks a month is almost doubling the cost. Plus, I got a great deal on the chicken quarters. I don't have an established source for raw food. 

Any co ops in western pa? I couldn't find?

Plus, can't feed chicken quarters every day!


ARRRGGGGHHHHHH


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## wolfsnaps88 (Jan 2, 2012)

Oh and they are being fed at 2% but I understand 3% is ideal typically?

Dozer weighs about 180-185 lbs. And he needs to lose some weight.

Sargeant weighs about 23-24 lbs. And he needs to lose some weight.

Hunter is about 115-120 lbs. And his weight is fine.

The cat is growing and the amounts she eats is so small I am not worries about that too much.


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

We feed 7 dogs here. I used to go through 40 pounds of kibble per week so I figure on the cheap side I was spending $140.00 per month on kibble. Because we buy bulk I spend my $140.00 budget about every other month and some months spend more towards $80.00 We feed about 9 pounds per day. I buy pretty much everything under $1.00 per pound except for the occasional splurge like the bison I am getting next month. That was $1.40 per pound with shipping and all. Chicken we get meaty backs to be fed with organ or heart and those back run .38 per pound. Pork heart is .84 per pound. Turkey heart is only .59 per pound. You can feed variety more inexpensively but it does take work. We also get lamb lung and some organs from a butcher in town for about .10 per pound. When I do that he sells me about 50 - 60 pound for $5 or $6 dollars. Don't give up just start working on better sources. Craigs list is another source or free cycle. I have gotten over one hundred pounds once when someone was moving and not taking their freezer and I have gotten 20 - 50 pounds of meat other times. Hope you can fins some good sources and work it out, it is so much better for your pups.


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

wolfsnaps88 said:


> Oh and they are being fed at 2% but I understand 3% is ideal typically?
> 
> Dozer weighs about 180-185 lbs. And he needs to lose some weight.
> 
> ...


No typically its between 1.5-3%...MANY dogs eat in the lower range!:wink:

Ok so Dozer and Sargeant....what do you feel will be their perfect weights??


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## wolfsnaps88 (Jan 2, 2012)

Liz, I wish I could find those prices! I called a local meat place and they charge .99 cents a pound for chicken backs. I feel like I have to get those because I don't know where else to try? 


Scarlett I think Sarge should be around 18 lbs. and Dozer around 165 lbs. But those are a guess really.


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

These are 2 yahoo groups in your area I hope that seem pretty active. You might want to join and see if they can give you some vendors to deal with or if they place orders as a group. That is one place I would start. Game butchers are other sources I would check with as you can usually get scrap from them and that is great stuff, organs, backs, neck etc.


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

So from my rough calculations you are looking at feeding around 5.5lbs per day(including the kitty and figuring that the big guys are only going to be around 1.5% as that is how most giant breeds are!:wink

Those 2 that Liz posted are great...I would also suggest posting here: Log In | Facebook.

Also have you looked for restaurant suppliers, meat wholesalers, etc??


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

Here is a vendor that might be near you. They have some really good prices. You might have to place an order with a few other people - I do this all the time. I order for myself and a couple of other friends and pick up 300- 400 pounds. Company is happy to sell to me on a cash/check basis and I am thrilled to get great prices. I will post if I see anything else. Be ready to drive a bit - I go a little over an hour for my bulk orders but I only do it 4 or 5 times per year.

http://quakervalleyfoods.com/Weekly_Specials_files/Weekly Ad.pdf


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## wolfsnaps88 (Jan 2, 2012)

I just applied to join a couple of those groups. I also called a local butcher. They were about to close and were really rude. I didn't even get prices or anything and they had twenty minutes until they were going to close. I give up today!


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

Also something to remember, that I think gets a lot of people worked up....you dont need to explain your self(unless asking for scraps). Just tell them you are looking for their prices for cases of; necks, backs, hearts, etc. And then also if they allow people to come pick up their scraps, and if so how much they charge for them!:wink:


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## Mondo (Dec 20, 2011)

Reading some of this I realize how fortunate I am. All I can say is keep trying. I lucked out with Google. Found an "outdoors" forum from around these parts where some hunters were discussing where they got their raw food. Then another, I just happened on a butcher who along with human food, has necks, backs and ground whole chicken for dogs. It seems to be a growing trend, if slowly growing ..


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