# I LOVE MY DOG...especially after what JUST happen!



## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

So it is a BEAUTIFUL blustery day here in town so I decide to take Gunner on a long walk to the bank. I had my new treat pouch full of liver treats and we set off  Gunner did AMAZING as usual with his "heel", "sit", "down", "stay", "high five", "watch me" and in general he was really great in the strong wind and traffic noises. 

On my way back about a block from home, I notice a few people across the street with a loose dog in the yard/driveway. Thats fine with me if they want their dog loose on a busy street hwell:

I look back and Gunner and tell him good boy, next thing I know I hear a person yell, the loose dog (shepherd mix) comes running across the busy road. So I kept walking hoping the STUPID owners would grab their dog or he would just sniff and leave. Gunner is a CHAMP and stays heeled, calm, and walks on. He just kept looking at me like "Mom theres a dog on my butt".

THEN the dog MOUNTS GUNNER and I turn around, boot the dog in the side as hard as I could (I'm wearing fUggs LOL) and yell as loud as I could "GET OFF MY ****ING DOG!!!!!!". Then I see some dude running across the street after the dog. The dog gets off Gunner when I yelled at it. I again yell as loud as I could at the people "YOU BETTER GET YOUR ****ING DOG!!!!! I WILL CALL ANIMAL CONTROL!!!". 

The idiots never said a word. I continue on my way and reach home in a few minutes.

Gunner got a TON of praise for being such a great boy. He never once made a sound or even tried to do anything, He did turn and look at the dog when he mounted him but that wasn't for long because I booted it. * I am SO PROUD of my dog!!!!!*

Him being awesome at the bank


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## catahoulamom (Sep 23, 2010)

What a good boy! We need more awesome owners like you and more awesome dogs like Gunner to keep improving the public's view of the pit bulls. He is too handsome, by the way! 

Oh, and those people are morons. I hate people like that. There's a stray lab mix that is always running around in my neighborhood. He is really friendly, but one of my dogs isn't (when he is on a leash), so I'm always having to chase him off. :/


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## NewYorkDogue (Sep 27, 2011)

Good Boy, Gunner! I love hearing stories like this; a testimonial for good solid training. Hopefully, my pup will grow up to be as solid on his commands as Gunner is...

Good job to you as well


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

Thanks guys  I knew you would understand! 

I usually walk around my neighborhood but this time we went on roads we have never been. If that happens again with that dog, I will be making a phone call. 

There is an 16 year old LUMPY pitbull mix that belongs to my neighbor. He wanders all over the place. He is just a sweet old dog but we have called on him more than a few times. I'm more worried for his health than I am about him hurting someone. People are so stupid sometimes. I am just glad my dog was calm cause if that had been Mikey getting mounted, we would have had a dog fight.


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## SpooOwner (Oct 1, 2010)

Let me make sure I understand: your dog stayed calm and focused but you lost your sh!t and kicked someone's pet? Your dog did great, but I can't congratulate you. Yes, the owner should have their dog under control, but you have no idea how the dog got loose. It's not always the owner's fault, even though it is always the owner's responsibility to get the dog back under control. And by continuing to walk, you encouraged the dog to follow you, creating the situation where the dog jumped on your dog. Then you kicked the dog as hard as you could, with no regard for the dog's welfare. Yup, your dog did great, but you have some issues to work on.


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

SpooOwner said:


> Let me make sure I understand: your dog stayed calm and focused but you lost your sh!t and kicked someone's pet? Your dog did great, but I can't congratulate you. Yes, the owner should have their dog under control, but you have no idea how the dog got loose. It's not always the owner's fault, even though it is always the owner's responsibility to get the dog back under control. And by continuing to walk, you encouraged the dog to follow you, creating the situation where the dog jumped on your dog. Then you kicked the dog as hard as you could, with no regard for the dog's welfare. Yup, your dog did great, but you have some issues to work on.


Oh really? What would you have done exactly?

I know how the dog got loose. These people were hanging out in the yard with their dog loose 10 feet from the road. I was on the opposite side. They allowed their dog to run across the road. Yes I kept walking, I wasn't going to stick around and wait for the unknown dog to bite mine. I have had other experiences with dogs that have gotten loose, followed me and then turned off after a few feet. 

I was calm until the dog mounted mine. Yes I kicked it, I am 5'3'' and was wearing basically slippers. I'm sure the dog was not even bruised. I yelled to startle the dog and get it off mine. I yelled at the people because they deserved it. 

I see nothing wrong with what I did. I kicked the dog ONCE, its not exactly like I beat it bleeding.

Thanks for the compliment on my dog  I expect nothing less from him. He is truly a great dog.


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## catahoulamom (Sep 23, 2010)

Just my .02c, but when an unknown dog charges me and my dogs and I'm by myself, I keep walking, as fast as I can, to try to keep my dogs distracted and to get away from the other dog. I don't stay there and sit around for the owner to come grab their dog, unless it's some little thing that obviously wont do any harm. If someone is with me, I hand my dogs over to them so they can keep walking, and I get in between the stray dog and my pack and chase/scare them off without force. 

Now, if that loose dog had latched onto one of my dogs and started humping him, and I was by myself, I would have used my legs to separate the dogs. I wouldn't brutally kick the dog unless it was absolutely necessary (like if there was a dog fight), but yes, I would probably knock him a bit to get him off. I'm not going to grab a dog I don't know by it's collar, or use my hands to pry him off, or even wait for the owner to come over and take their dog off of mine. I know how this scenario goes... I'm walking my pit bull, a stray lab runs up and starts humping my dog, my pit bull gets understandably pissed and snaps at him... starts a fight, and who gets the bad rep? My LEASHED pit bull (unfortunately). So yeah, I would do what I need to do to get the dog off of mine, preferably without force.


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

catahoulamom said:


> Just my .02c, but when an unknown dog charges me and my dogs and I'm by myself, I keep walking, as fast as I can, to try to keep my dogs distracted and to get away from the other dog. I don't stay there and sit around for the owner to come grab their dog, unless it's some little thing that obviously wont do any harm. If someone is with me, I hand my dogs over to them so they can keep walking, and I get in between the stray dog and my pack and chase/scare them off without force.
> 
> Now, if that loose dog had latched onto one of my dogs and started humping him, and I was by myself, I would have used my legs to separate the dogs. I wouldn't brutally kick the dog unless it was absolutely necessary (like if there was a dog fight), but yes, I would probably knock him a bit to get him off. I'm not going to grab a dog I don't know by it's collar, or use my hands to pry him off, or even wait for the owner to come over and take their dog off of mine. I know how this scenario goes... I'm walking my pit bull, a stray lab runs up and starts humping my dog, my pit bull gets understandably pissed and snaps at him... starts a fight, and who gets the bad rep? My LEASHED pit bull (unfortunately). So yeah, I would do what I need to do to get the dog off of mine, preferably without force.


Hopefully I will not have this happen again, but if it does I will use your method. I just wanted that dog off mine. I didn't really plan my actions.


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## catahoulamom (Sep 23, 2010)

Sprocket said:


> Hopefully I will not have this happen again, but if it does I will use your method. I just wanted that dog off mine. I didn't really plan my actions.


I'm not attacking you for whatever you did, you gotta do what you gotta do. I wasn't there, I can't judge. There are a lot of worse things that could have happened to those people's dogs than you kicking it off your dog (ie, getting hit by a car, stolen, attacked by another dog, etc).


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

catahoulamom said:


> I'm not attacking you for whatever you did, you gotta do what you gotta do. I wasn't there, I can't judge. There are a lot of worse things that could have happened to those people's dogs than you kicking it off your dog (ie,* getting hit by a car*, stolen, attacked by another dog, etc).


Thanks 

And yes that was my first concern when I saw that dog run across the busy road! He was a beautiful dog too. A really rich red and black.


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## SpooOwner (Oct 1, 2010)

Sprocket said:


> Oh really? What would you have done exactly?


When the dog approached, I would have grabbed it by the collar and held it until the owners crossed the street for it. Easy enough.



Sprocket said:


> I know how the dog got loose. These people were hanging out in the yard with their dog loose 10 feet from the road. I was on the opposite side. They allowed their dog to run across the road.


Yup, these owners suck.



Sprocket said:


> Yes I kept walking, I wasn't going to stick around and wait for the unknown dog to bite mine. I have had other experiences with dogs that have gotten loose, followed me and then turned off after a few feet.


Continuing to walk is usually the worst thing you can do. The dog's prey drive will kick in and it'll give chase. It's better to just stand there. If the dog attacks your dog, then grab its back legs and pull it off your dog. If the dog attacks you, then yes, you can kick it to defend yourself.



Sprocket said:


> I was calm until the dog mounted mine. Yes I kicked it, I am 5'3'' and was wearing basically slippers. I'm sure the dog was not even bruised. I yelled to startle the dog and get it off mine. I yelled at the people because they deserved it.


You can kill a dog by kicking its ribs, if they break and puncture the heart. It's easier than you think. I'm smaller than you and I can do it. And it's irrelevant what kind of shoes you're wearing.



Sprocket said:


> I see nothing wrong with what I did.


Obviously. In fact, you seem proud.



Sprocket said:


> I kicked the dog ONCE, its not exactly like I beat it bleeding.


How kind of you.



Sprocket said:


> Thanks for the compliment on my dog  I expect nothing less from him. He is truly a great dog.


You're welcome. He deserves it.


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

SpooOwner said:


> When the dog approached, I would have grabbed it by the collar and held it until the owners crossed the street for it. Easy enough.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well you can sacrifice your limbs with an unknown dog. I will not. 

To each their own


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## SpooOwner (Oct 1, 2010)

Sprocket said:


> Well you can sacrifice your limbs with an unknown dog. I will not.
> 
> To each their own


By your own account, this dog was not aggressive. It did not attack you or your dog. There was no risk to your limbs.


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## nupe (Apr 26, 2011)

sprocket bottom line....You panicked and just reacted off the cuff!!


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

SpooOwner said:


> By your own account, this dog was not aggressive. It did not attack you or your dog. There was no risk to your limbs.


When did I say the dog was "not agressive"? It approached in a VERY DA manner. I did not know the dog and will not reach my hand down towards its mouth. NO thank you.



nupe said:


> sprocket bottom line....You panicked and just reacted off the cuff!!


And your point is?


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## xchairity_casex (Oct 8, 2011)

gunner is such a doll! he did great!

and personally i see nothing wrong with what you did sprocket that type of behavior COULD have started a fight if gunner had be startled by that other dog its suddenly mounting it coud have caused him alarm it did not thank goodness as he is a good boy who trusts you and its becuase of the things you do to protect your dog that he trusts you.

you were protecting your dog we do what we have to do to protect ourselves and our pets.


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## werecatrising (Oct 15, 2010)

What a good boy Gunner is.
Unfortunately, there are tons of off leash dog in my area. If one approaches while we were out the last thing I'd do is reach for it's collar. Quinn is fine with other dogs. He has had dogs approach him aggressively in the past and just ignored them. However, if I got bit by another dog I am sure he would feel the need to defend me. I would hate for him to get in a fight because of my actions.


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

werecatrising said:


> What a good boy Gunner is.
> Unfortunately, there are tons of off leash dog in my area. If one approaches while we were out the last thing I'd do is reach for it's collar. Quinn is fine with other dogs. He has had dogs approach him aggressively in the past and just ignored them. However, if I got bit by another dog I am sure he would feel the need to defend me. I would hate for him to get in a fight because of my actions.


I really doubt gunner would ever fight a dog. He is as docile as they come. 

I don't see what use an owner would be to their dog if they got bitten by a dog when reaching for its collar


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## xchairity_casex (Oct 8, 2011)

> I don't see what use an owner would be to their dog if they got bitten by a dog when reaching for its collar


exactly and some dogs u just dont know not all dogs growl before biteing. and just because the dog is not growling when it appraoches doesnt mean it wouldnt snap at YOU for attempting to grab its collar so dogs dont like to be touched ive seen chihuahuas who were like that. when i was a kid our neighbors had a mini pin named king. he was very playful and i would play with him nearly everyday well one day he was sniffin at my boot i looked down and on my boot was some mudd or poop so i go "oh no king" in a normal voice not low or firm and used my hand to nudge him away i got bitten no growls nothing.

would also like to say that had sprocket broken one of those dogs ribs while kicking at it it still would have been the owners fault due to having it off lead if you dont want your dog to get hurt,lost,ect keep it on lead otherwise anything can happen and its you as the owners fault if it does for not controling your own dog.


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## nupe (Apr 26, 2011)

Sprocket said:


> When did I say the dog was "not agressive"? It approached in a VERY DA manner. I did not know the dog and will not reach my hand down towards its mouth. NO thank you.
> 
> 
> 
> And your point is?


My point is ...glad you did not have a real weapon on you!! and I still dont see where you said in original post the dog approached aggressively. maybe I missed it.


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

nupe said:


> My point is ...glad you did not have a real weapon on you!! and I still dont see where you said in original post the dog approached aggressively. maybe I missed it.


Oh PLEASE! You are grasping now.


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## swolek (Mar 31, 2011)

I seriously can't believe some of you would advise grabbing the collar of a loose, strange dog that's excited. I know many, many dogs who would snap in that situation. I don't like hurting dogs but can understand the OP's actions...that dog could have been dangerous! Sophie, one of my Cockers, was attacked by a loose dog once...I wouldn't be taking any chances as I was lucky she didn't get seriously hurt the first time . I got hurt myself, though. That dog didn't give any warning signs...it rushed over, sniffed, and then attacked. The same could have happened with the OP.

Sprocket, congrats on your training paying off . Our Cockers tend to be leash-reactive with strange dogs (especially loose!) but I've worked on it a TON and know how you feel. The other day a dog lunged at Sophie. Normally that would set her off but instead she just looked at me for reassurance and kept walking .


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## stajbs (Jun 5, 2010)

Sprocket, it is very easy for any one of us to say what we would do, but honestly none of us knows what we would do in the situation you describe. Sure, many of us have had similar situations and responded in certain ways, but the same situation could crop up again and we might do something different. Who knows really. In the thread about foxes I admit to having a concealed carry permit, due to a coyote problem. I have practiced and practiced with my pistol, and tried to think about what possible scenarios I could face and how I would handle them. So I have put much time into how I would plan to handle a situation should I need to pull my weapon on a critter, or god forbid another human being. Can I guarantee I would do what I currently plan??? Nope, not at all!! Just my two cents. I would chalk this up to a learning experience, I would agree I personally would not have reached for that other dogs collar unless I knew the dog, and move on. You know what happened and how you reacted, give some thought to future possible episodes and move forward. Plus it sounds thankfully as if you, your dog, and the other dog are fine, so that is good.


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## nupe (Apr 26, 2011)

Sprocket said:


> Oh PLEASE! You are grasping now.


Well when I said you panicked you replied..""and your point is"? so you agree you did.... so thats whay I made my statement about if you had a weapon. Dont get me wrong I think there are situations where you have to do what you have to do...I dont think that was just one, thats all.....and I was not the one who said grab the dogs collar...but I also would not have kicked the dogs in ribs for just trying to mount my dog either.


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## SpooOwner (Oct 1, 2010)

I recommend using the least amount of force necessary. If the dog attacks, it's ok to defend yourself and your dog, but don't go around kicking loose dogs on the off chance that they might be DA. From your description, I see no evidence that you couldn't have safely grabbed this dog's collar. It sounds like you went apesh!t on someone's pet. If there's more to your story, feel free to fill in the blanks. Otherwise, it sounds like you need some anger management classes.


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5 (Feb 11, 2010)

I Feel sprocket dID NOTHING WRONG 
gunner was a good boy, although tbh i would want winston to fight any dog who even tried to mount him
if isaw an aggressive dog coming at us, id be confused whether i should let him loose to defend himself, or keep him leashed.


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## catahoulamom (Sep 23, 2010)

Wow, I've even been bit by dogs who know me when I grab their collar... dogs who show no signs of aggression can often react when their collar is grabbed, especially if you don't know them. I have a dog who would not tolerate having his collar grabbed by a stranger. I'm not saying that kicking a dog is always the right solution, but I would never, ever grab the collar of a big dog that was trying to mount my dog. I think it's harsh to say that she needs anger management and is "going around kicking loose dogs", I can't speak for Sproket but I doubt she would have kicked the dog had it not have mounted her dog.


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## catahoulamom (Sep 23, 2010)

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> I Feel sprocket dID NOTHING WRONG
> gunner was a good boy, although tbh i would want winston to fight any dog who even tried to mount him
> if isaw an aggressive dog coming at us, id be confused whether i should let him loose to defend himself, or keep him leashed.


I think as Winston's owner, it is your duty to make sure he gets home safe, not let him defend himself and possibly get injured (or seriously injure the other dog). And I don't think it's a good idea to WANT your dog to fight another dog, serious dog fights are not fun at all.


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5 (Feb 11, 2010)

well id prefer he fight BACk if a dog were attacking him. If i were waling winston right now and an aggressive saint bernard were coming at us i think he'd have a better shot at it than i would...idk what id do...
and i hear nj is getting black bears now -_-


catahoulamom said:


> I think as Winston's owner, it is your duty to make sure he gets home safe, not let him defend himself and possibly get injured (or seriously injure the other dog). And I don't think it's a good idea to WANT your dog to fight another dog, serious dog fights are not fun at all.


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

nupe said:


> Well when I said you panicked you replied..""and your point is"? so you agree you did.... so thats whay I made my statement about if you had a weapon. Dont get me wrong I think there are situations where you have to do what you have to do...I dont think that was just one, thats all.....and I was not the one who said grab the dogs collar...but I also would not have kicked the dogs in ribs for just trying to mount my dog either.



Again with your assumptions...we all know what ASSuming does to people 

Thanks to everyone else


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

SpooOwner said:


> I recommend using the least amount of force necessary. If the dog attacks, it's ok to defend yourself and your dog, but don't go around *kicking loose dogs on the off chance that they might be DA*. From your description, I see no evidence that you couldn't have safely grabbed this dog's collar. It sounds like you went apesh!t on someone's pet. If there's more to your story, feel free to fill in the blanks. Otherwise, it sounds like you need some anger management classes.


Yes because grabbing a DA dogs collar is totally a better idea...


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## stajbs (Jun 5, 2010)

A**umption is the mother of all "screw" ups. I would never assume grabbing an unknown dogs collar would be wise. That's just me, and not passing judgement on anyone when I say that. Sprocket, I do not have anger management issues, and I can't say for sure what I would have done because I was not there. I may have tried to wedge a knee or something in there first before potentially kicking, but then again I don't know because I was not there. I sure as heck would have been yelling at the owners to get their darned dog though. As I said earlier, the incident is over, all you can do now is look back at what happened, use it as a learning experience and hope if it happens again you make the right choices based on the situation. We were at a dog event once and our dogs were attached to the outriggers on the dog truck. Someone elses sibe got loose and ran over to our truck. Two of our friends, a female, and a male who owned the boy who got loose both got to my truck before I could. Starbuck the male husky who got loose was canoodling with my GSD/Sibe mix named Sandi. They both froze. A grown man and a female who is a dog trainer both froze and she said "Oh, it's Sandi", I laughed and reached in and got a hold of Starbucks collar. End of story, Sandi intimidated some people, Starbuck was a kick a** weight puller but a wuss and a snuggle bum. You did what you thought you had to do, ours is not the place to judge your actions. I can personally suggest as I already have that you look back at the experience and grow from it.

RC, you really need to give some thought to this topic. Full blown dog fights are horrid, and when and if it happens your adrenaline kicks in. My choice would be to break up any fight that happened involving my dog(s). Even if my dog was defending itself, yay, I guess that is good, but the fight is not, and it's still darned likely even if my dog defends itself both dogs will have bites and so will I. I would simply suggest it is not wise to just step back and let your dog defend itself while you watch. You may not get hurt yes, but personally I don't like any dog getting the message fighting is okay. I'd break it up, and have done so, while in the process sacrificing some of my own skin and blood. 

Just my two cents again.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Y'all just need to settle down.

Were any of us there, in the moment of when this happened? Yes, but Sprocket was the only one. NO ONE else was there so we cannot gauge if her actions were justified or not, regardless of her description. I don't think anyone on this forum has the intent to do harm to random animals just because they can. And I certainly don't see Sprocket as the type of dog owner that kicks dogs just because she can. AND she doesn't seem like she's proud to have kicked a dog....she's proud of HER dog for keeping it cool, sheesh. 

From the sounds of the situation, it was damn scary. Would I have reacted the same way that she did in the exact same scenario? I have no idea, never had a situation like that. I would think that I would use body blocking techniques I've learned in the past year to ease the situation into something easy for the other owner to come get their dog. SpooOwner is right, continuing to walk is not a good idea for several reasons. First, it makes it harder for the other owner to get their dog because the further you move away, the further their dog gets away. Second, it gives the opportunity to the strange dog to chase you...dogs LOVE to chase things, which is NOT a good thing for the recipient end. Chasing behavior will only elevate arousal in a situation like this. Stopping all movement is actually the best thing you can do, and do not face the stranger dog, but keep him in your peripheral vision. I can tell you that grabbing that loose dog's collar would be the LAST thing I would do because I don't know how many times I've reached for seemingly friendly dog's collars just to have that turn and snap at me. I was always taken aback by this reaction...and I've learned the lesson that the collar is really the last thing you go for on a strange dog and I come across strange dogs all day, every day at work. 

Also, humping can definitely lead to fights because it is a very confident move with unacquainted dogs. It can start off as seeming "peaceful" just to turn nasty and ugly. If Sprocket didn't kick that dog to break the grasp who knows what would have happened. Again, I don't think she kicked the dog to actually cause it physical pain, but rather to get the dog off of her's. Maybe body blocking wouldn't have cut it. We don't know because we weren't there. 

Sprocket, next time (I hope there's not a next time...) I would use body blocking with your whole body if a dog approaches you and your dogs. "Splitting" is actually a calming signal in dogs which you can use to your advantage...this basically means splitting the space between your dog and the strange one with your body. Unless a dog comes at you with obvious aggressive tendencies (intent to harm) I wouldn't kick because that for sure can cause the other dog to get so agitated to spark a fight, not all the time but it can happen. 

All I can say to end this post is that I'm glad that you, Gunner and that other dog weren't hurt from this potentially very hazardous situation. Gunner is a very good boy!


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5 (Feb 11, 2010)

stajbs said:


> A**umption is the mother of all "screw" ups. I would never assume grabbing an unknown dogs collar would be wise. That's just me, and not passing judgement on anyone when I say that. Sprocket, I do not have anger management issues, and I can't say for sure what I would have done because I was not there. I may have tried to wedge a knee or something in there first before potentially kicking, but then again I don't know because I was not there. I sure as heck would have been yelling at the owners to get their darned dog though. As I said earlier, the incident is over, all you can do now is look back at what happened, use it as a learning experience and hope if it happens again you make the right choices based on the situation. We were at a dog event once and our dogs were attached to the outriggers on the dog truck. Someone elses sibe got loose and ran over to our truck. Two of our friends, a female, and a male who owned the boy who got loose both got to my truck before I could. Starbuck the male husky who got loose was canoodling with my GSD/Sibe mix named Sandi. They both froze. A grown man and a female who is a dog trainer both froze and she said "Oh, it's Sandi", I laughed and reached in and got a hold of Starbucks collar. End of story, Sandi intimidated some people, Starbuck was a kick a** weight puller but a wuss and a snuggle bum. You did what you thought you had to do, ours is not the place to judge your actions. I can personally suggest as I already have that you look back at the experience and grow from it.
> 
> RC, you really need to give some thought to this topic. Full blown dog fights are horrid, and when and if it happens your adrenaline kicks in. My choice would be to break up any fight that happened involving my dog(s). Even if my dog was defending itself, yay, I guess that is good, but the fight is not, and it's still darned likely even if my dog defends itself both dogs will have bites and so will I. I would simply suggest it is not wise to just step back and let your dog defend itself while you watch. You may not get hurt yes, but personally I don't like any dog getting the message fighting is okay. I'd break it up, and have done so, while in the process sacrificing some of my own skin and blood.
> 
> Just my two cents again.


well i wouldnt just stand back id prob try to ward it off with the rack, and if it gets too close id prob let go of Winston's leash. but i really don't know what im supposed to do if a 200 pound mastiff is charging at us...i think it'd be best t let go of winston's leash idk!!


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

I totall agree with Natalie. We weren't there. There are so many things to take into account not the least of which is the feeling of the situation. That said if something got past me to my dogs I would do anything I could to seperate them. My collies are sweeties but I never want them to feel they have to fight to protect themselves. So far every dog that has approached us on walks I have been able to intercept but you never know when I might be distracted and fail to see a dog approach - whether the loose dog is aggressive or not I don't want a loose dog bothering my pups. My first concern is always with my own dogs. If someone has a problem with that they can keep their dog leashed or confined.


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## Tobi (Mar 18, 2011)

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> well i wouldnt just stand back id prob try to ward it off with the rack, and if it gets too close id prob let go of Winston's leash. but i really don't know what im supposed to do if a 200 pound mastiff is charging at us...i think it'd be best t let go of winston's leash idk!!


:suspicious:


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## werecatrising (Oct 15, 2010)

This brings to mind a question I've had about the standing still versus walking away thing. I've had dogs go after Quinn and past dogs when the owners were in the area. In those cases I stayed still to give the owner a chance to collect their dog. What about when there is no owner present?
To me it seems like staying still would give more of a "we're not backing down"vibe than calmly walking away would. Is it still better to stay in one place and hope for the best?


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## stajbs (Jun 5, 2010)

Thanks Danemama for the very informational post. Very helpful info to have. I've wedged my knee in between dogs, and stepped between dogs that were fighting but never realized what I was doing per se, just seemed the right way to handle the situation that was happening. Course I got an abrasian but not a full puncture wound that time, but thankfully neither of my two dogs were hurt. That's always my primary goal in a dog fight.

RC for advice on this type of situation look at Danemama's approach. Her advice is always knowledgeable and worth storing in your memory banks for the future. Hopefully you never need it, but useful information to have, and I know I appreciate the input on walking away kicking in the whole "chase" instinct. I know this, but had never had experience with that type of situation.


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## CavePaws (Jan 25, 2011)

If I was walking Preston, who I generally do not have to worry about starting sh*t with another dog, then maybe I would have taken the time to kindly and calmly get the dog away from mine until the owner has it under control.

However, if I had been walking Indi my dog who does not like strange dogs, I would have been screaming and kicking to keep that dog away from her. I know without a shadow of a doubt what an unknown dog getting within a foot of Indi is going to do. I don't want my dog or that dog hurt because of a dog fight, that is stupid and preventable in most situations. EVEN if the dog approached us in a friendly manner the end result would be similar and that would be injury to either or both dogs. I can't take the chance with strange dogs getting close to Indi. Moral of the story is, if you don't have a solid a** recall don't have your dog off leash in an uncontrolled environment. It is ridiculous that the owner was not there to remove their dog before it even had the time to try to mount Gunner. They are really lucky their dog was not hurt by human, canine, or machine.


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## GoingPostal (Sep 5, 2011)

Personally I've never found standing around to be effective at getting rid of loose dogs, that just gives them the chance to get closer to mine, I keep right on walking and I've never had a dog follow us long, seems like most don't want to venture that far from their home area, this has always worked for the friendly loose ones we normally encounter. The loose dogs around here never seem to have owners chasing after them and even if they did, sorry if you have to run and catch your loose dog, maybe you should have had him on a leash. For aggressive dogs charging us, I will put my dog in a sit behind me and block them, I carry dog mace but yelling seems to be effective so far but if a dog ran up to mine I see no issue kicking them away, no it's not their fault they are loose, but I'd rather boot a dog in the head than let a fight happen, I would never grab a strange dog by the collar or put my hands anywhere near it, not that most are wearing collars anyways. If a strange dog ran up and tried to hump mine, yeah, he'd get booted off none too nicely and fast, before my dog got ahold of him, my concern lies with MY dogs first.


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5 (Feb 11, 2010)

GoingPostal said:


> Personally I've never found standing around to be effective at getting rid of loose dogs, that just gives them the chance to get closer to mine, I keep right on walking and I've never had a dog follow us long, seems like most don't want to venture that far from their home area, this has always worked for the friendly loose ones we normally encounter. The loose dogs around here never seem to have owners chasing after them and even if they did, sorry if you have to run and catch your loose dog, maybe you should have had him on a leash. For aggressive dogs charging us, I will put my dog in a sit behind me and block them, I carry dog mace but yelling seems to be effective so far but if a dog ran up to mine I see no issue kicking them away, no it's not their fault they are loose, but I'd rather boot a dog in the head than let a fight happen, I would never grab a strange dog by the collar or put my hands anywhere near it, not that most are wearing collars anyways. If a strange dog ran up and tried to hump mine, yeah, he'd get booted off none too nicely and fast, before my dog got ahold of him, my concern lies with MY dogs first.


I just feel so torn about what to do...I would think putting winston in a sit would make hi vulnerable to getting hurt. I really don't see how that would help matters.if a 200 pound mastiff comes charging at us i cant stop the dog by standing in front of winston..id s*** my pants lol.

are you saying for friendly dogs you'd keep walking but not aggressive ones?


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## Poppy (Nov 24, 2011)

I was told in obedience classes that walking away firmly (but not running) is the best option. Standing around or giving eye contact engages the dog to come closer and check you out. I've used this many times with my reactive dog. We live near an off leash area and once in awhile there is a dog that got too far from it's owner and wants to sniff us, never aggressive or anything, but since my boy is a bit reactive to certain dogs I turn and walk the other way. 100% of the time they never follow us very far. I have not run into a loose aggressive dog but I imagine it would work, eye contact = an invitation or a challenge.

Also OP I think you did the right thing, and my oh my Gunner is a beautiful boy!


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

Poppy said:


> I was told in obedience classes that walking away firmly (but not running) is the best option. Standing around or giving eye contact engages the dog to come closer and check you out. I've used this many times with my reactive dog. We live near an off leash area and once in awhile there is a dog that got too far from it's owner and wants to sniff us, never aggressive or anything, but since my boy is a bit reactive to certain dogs I turn and walk the other way. 100% of the time they never follow us very far. I have not run into a loose aggressive dog but I imagine it would work, eye contact = an invitation or a challenge.
> 
> Also OP I think you did the right thing, and my oh my Gunner is a beautiful boy!


Thank you for this post. It is always good to have another perspective backed by obedience class. 

And thank you for the compliment. He ain't bad for a high kill shelter pup


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

Here's the deal. 
I love dogs. I'd never ever EVER want to hurt one. 
But, I love my dogs the most. By a lot. And I see it as my duty to protect them from potentially harmful things. Even if it means kicking other dogs. 
Annie and I were charged by a Black Lab last year on a walk. I think I posted about it, but I can't really remember. Anyway, said dog came out of nowhere, and lunged at Annie. From behind. 
Generally, I body block. But, when contact has already been made, I go into whatever means necessary mode. You bet I kicked that dog. A few times. As hard as I could. I got bit in the face, too. I have no regrets. 

That being said, I really see nothing wrong with what Sprocket did and I personally think that you should ALWAYS treat a strange dog as if it were aggressive. NEVER assume that an animal you don't know is friendly. I'm not saying go around drop kicking strays you don't know, but grab a collar? Heck no. Seriously... if you value your fingers, don't do it. 

I think that every dog is different, which makes every situation different, which means there really is no "best way" to handle a strange dog. 
I can tell you if a dog ran up and mounted Annie, a swift kick to the side from me is worlds better than the "lesson" she would teach.


And RC: wanting your dog to fight so you don't crap your pants? How do you make it through the days?


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

I want to make it clear that my responses and advice in this thread is directly related to a situation like the OP's where the stranger dog's owners are there...or close by. If a stray dog comes up to you and no owner is in sight then I wouldn't recommend just standing there. Walking away slowly and without interest is best. 

I've personally been on the other end...where I'm trying to get my dog back but people just keep on walking. They know I'm there and know I'm trying to get my dog back but they just keep on walking. I can't think of much else that's more annoying than that.


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

DaneMama said:


> I want to make it clear that my responses and advice in this thread is directly related to a situation like the OP's where the stranger dog's owners are there...or close by. If a stray dog comes up to you and no owner is in sight then I wouldn't recommend just standing there. Walking away slowly and without interest is best.
> 
> I've personally been on the other end...where I'm trying to get my dog back but people just keep on walking. They know I'm there and know I'm trying to get my dog back but they just keep on walking. I can't think of much else that's more annoying than that.


But if they weren't trying to get their dog back?
I agree with what you're saying, but I still will assume any strange dog to be aggressive until they show CLEAR signs they're not. i got the impression the owners were relly doing nothing about it until Sprocket started yelling at them.


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## nupe (Apr 26, 2011)

Like was said.....Every situation is different....my point was I dont think OP's situation warranted a kick to the ribs thats all.....I didnt see her type once...she tried to seperate with her knee first or get in between the dogs or anything like that...she panicked and *bam* swift kick to ribs.


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## nupe (Apr 26, 2011)

DaneMama said:


> I want to make it clear that my responses and advice in this thread is directly related to a situation like the OP's where the stranger dog's owners are there...or close by. If a stray dog comes up to you and no owner is in sight then I wouldn't recommend just standing there. Walking away slowly and without interest is best.
> 
> I've personally been on the other end...where I'm trying to get my dog back but people just keep on walking. They know I'm there and know I'm trying to get my dog back but they just keep on walking. I can't think of much else that's more annoying than that.



.....so ok what if as you are trying to get your dogt back, but maybe not walking fast enough or trying hard enough in the person eyes with the other dog...as you are walking towards the person his dog and your dog....your dog starts to mount their dog and he or she kicks them in ribs.....now that is more annoying!!


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

nupe said:


> .....so ok what if as you are trying to get your dogt back, but maybe not walking fast enough or trying hard enough in the person eyes with the other dog...as you are walking towards the person his dog and your dog....your dog starts to mount their dog and he or she kicks them in ribs.....now that is more annoying!!



We can play what if all day long. 
Point is: don't be stupid enough to not be putting in obvious effort if your dog is harassing other people or their pets, and that issue is resolved. 
Do dogs get out of responsible owner's homes? Sure, it happens. But I like to THINK no one here would be stupid enough to be casually strolling at snail's pace while their dog mounts someone else's. Or, maybe "they" would?


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## nupe (Apr 26, 2011)

what you might consider a snails pace others might not...some might say.""oh let me not run over there and excite the situation but walk over there calmly and gather my dog. What if the owner is a handicapped person or a elderly person that cant move as quick as you like?


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

Eh, if a strange dog mounted one of my dogs I WOULD give it the boot (at the very least onve)and scream at the owners....and I for sure can say that I wouldn't give the strange dog's well being another thought, until is was either 1. safely restrained and away from my self and my dog, or 2. Proving to not be a threat!!

I can't say as I think Em did any thing wrong, the owners of the dog? Hell ya, they are the idiots whose dog was loose in a spot that it could run after another dog...now if this was someone walking an in heat bitch, it might not fully be as clear...but I can pretty much bet that Gunner isn't in heat!;-)


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## Missy Mae (Nov 8, 2011)

Good job Gunner! Sure hope you got something extra nummy as a reward 

As far as how Gunner's mom handled the situation I agree with what has already been said. No one was there but Gunner and his mom. It is unfair to say that how she handled the situation was "wrong" or her actions were malicious in intent. 

When I read her post all I “heard” was a mom who was proud of her boy for staying calm and waiting for his mom to protect/take care of him, and IMO she should be proud of him for that. At the same time she should be proud of herself for training Gunner, because without the training this could have had a very sad ending!


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## nupe (Apr 26, 2011)

Missy Mae said:


> Good job Gunner! Sure hope you got something extra nummy as a reward
> 
> As far as how Gunner's mom handled the situation I agree with what has already been said. No one was there but Gunner and his mom. It is unfair to say that how she handled the situation was "wrong" or her actions were malicious in intent.
> 
> When I read her post all I “heard” was a mom who was proud of her boy for staying calm and waiting for his mom to protect/take care of him, and IMO she should be proud of him for that. At the same time she should be proud of herself for training Gunner, because without the training this could have had a very sad ending!



FAIR ENOUGH ...Enough said on the matter. But we all agree great job by her dog.


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## doggiedad (Jan 23, 2011)

when someone else makes an assumption how does that
make an ass? assume (ass of u and me).



Sprocket said:


> >>>>>Again with your assumptions...we all know what ASSuming does to people<<<<<<
> 
> Thanks to everyone else


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## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

SpooOwner said:


> Let me make sure I understand: your dog stayed calm and focused but you lost your sh!t and kicked someone's pet? Your dog did great, but I can't congratulate you. Yes, the owner should have their dog under control, but you have no idea how the dog got loose. It's not always the owner's fault, even though it is always the owner's responsibility to get the dog back under control. And by continuing to walk, you encouraged the dog to follow you, creating the situation where the dog jumped on your dog. Then you kicked the dog as hard as you could, with no regard for the dog's welfare. Yup, your dog did great, but you have some issues to work on.


I would have done the same thing as Sprocket, to be honest. I might not have lashed out so aggressively but I have tried grabbing a mounted dog by the collar to pull him off and have been snapped at. That is now the last thing I would do. Back legs??? Have you EVER seen how well a dog can twist himself around to bite someone? I've had that happen to me too. My dogs seem to have a tendency to get mounted. I will yell at the dog and tell it to get off but if that doesn't work I WILL kick the dog.



SpooOwner said:


> I recommend using the least amount of force necessary. If the dog attacks, it's ok to defend yourself and your dog, but don't go around kicking loose dogs on the off chance that they might be DA. From your description, I see no evidence that you couldn't have safely grabbed this dog's collar. It sounds like you went apesh!t on someone's pet. If there's more to your story, feel free to fill in the blanks. Otherwise, it sounds like you need some anger management classes.


In my opinion, you NEVER grab the collar of a dog that you do not own. To be honest, I won't even grab friends' dog's collars. It doesn't matter who's dog it is, if it isn't yours, don't grab the collar. There are some exceptions but I have found it is a good rule to live by. The fact that Sprocket doesn't know this dog AT ALL is a great reason not to grab its collar. There is no way to "safely" grab a strange dog's collar. 

This is where I stopped reading. I have "beaten" an attacking dog before. When Dude was a pup he used to chew through nylon leashes so I bought him a chain one because I was tired of walking my puppy and seeing him run away in happiness because he chewed through it. Anyhow, I still have that leash and about 2 years ago I was walking Dude in my neighborhood when I saw a loose GSD about a half a mile away. I couldn't tell if he had seen us yet so I kept walking thinking that, if I could JUST get around the corner we might not become a subject of his interest. Well, he saw us and the second I saw him coming towards us I stopped, unhooked Dude's leash (while keeping hold of his collar) and got it ready to defend ourselves. I can tell you, without a doubt that that dog was coming at us with the intent to kill. His attention was not aimed at me. He wanted Dude. When he got close enough, I swung the leash at his face. I caught him on the top of the skull. He kept coming. He ran into my legs and threw a snap in my direction. I doubled the leash up in my hands and swung at him over and over again. I kicked at him as hard as I could. I hit him several times before I caught him right on the bridge of the nose. That is when he yelped and took off. He had hit my bad knee and it took us a while to get home but thankfully we had somehow managed to get out of that encounter with no blood. I would have kept beating that dog with everything I had had he not took off. Was I concerned with breaking his ribs? No. I was not. I was concerned for US, not the dog that was doing the attacking. I am 4'11 and this dog was big enough to weigh more than me. There is no doubt in my mind that this dog was not just trying to be dominant but was intent on causing Dude harm.

It turns out that we were not the only ones to have an encounter with that dog. He bluff charged my stepfather at the mail box and when my stepdad began to ask around about the dog we found other neighbors who had been threatened by him. I suppose that this encounter is a lot different from Sprocket's but, to be honest, I will prepare myself to beat any dog silly that runs up to us now. Obviously, there are dogs like Buck who would run up to people because he thinks everyone needs to be a new friend but those are obvious in their body language. I don't know if it takes actually being attacked by a loose dog to lose all sympathy for dogs like the one Sprocket encountered but, although I don't just automatically hit any dog that comes at me I will always be prepared to.


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

To clarify a few things, 

These people were not your average soccer mom, golfing dad with a wavy tailed shepherd. The dog was about a 80 lb shepherd (I'm thinking Rottweiler mix), he approached tail straight up and stiff, eyes locked on my dog, hackles up. With all the negative views of pitbulls I am surprised these people didn't act faster.

Knowing the neighborhood I live in and the people that frequent it, I had no reason to act hospitable towards the people regarding the actions of their dog. I doubt they would have stuck around while I called the police if their dog had bitten me or Gunner. This town is scary and I intend to stand up for myself and not let those type of people walk all over me. Hopefully because of my actions they will think twice next time that might happen.

I don't understand why certain people are thinking so deeply into this :tsk:. 

Thanks to everyone else  I really appreciate a place where I can share how great Gunner is.


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5 (Feb 11, 2010)

way to twist my words linsey,


PuppyPaws said:


> Here's the deal.
> I love dogs. I'd never ever EVER want to hurt one.
> But, I love my dogs the most. By a lot. And I see it as my duty to protect them from potentially harmful things. Even if it means kicking other dogs.
> Annie and I were charged by a Black Lab last year on a walk. I think I posted about it, but I can't really remember. Anyway, said dog came out of nowhere, and lunged at Annie. From behind.
> ...


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## SpooOwner (Oct 1, 2010)

Sprocket said:


> The dog ... approached tail straight up and stiff, eyes locked on my dog, hackles up.


This, to me, is a different situation. If the dog displays aggression while approaching, then yes, you have the right to defend you and your pet.


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## nupe (Apr 26, 2011)

It just took 6 pages for the story to expand or to hear about the tail up, eyes locked and hackles up. Yes thats different!!


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## flippedstars (May 22, 2010)

SpooOwner said:


> I recommend using the least amount of force necessary. If the dog attacks, it's ok to defend yourself and your dog, but don't go around kicking loose dogs on the off chance that they might be DA. From your description, I see no evidence that you couldn't have safely grabbed this dog's collar. It sounds like you went apesh!t on someone's pet. If there's more to your story, feel free to fill in the blanks. Otherwise, it sounds like you need some anger management classes.



Come ON...first of all, SEVERAL of your 'helpful' suggestions leave her with two hands on the other dog and none on hers. HER dog's safety is her responsibility. HER job is to keep HER dog under control and HER HANDS ON HER DOG. If you're some little 5'3" shrimp (sorry Sproket) and a dog weighing probably near what you do comes at you, your dog, etc. it's going to require more than a hand to get it under control especially if it has mounted your dog. She reacted and probably in the only way she could at a split second's notice,to protect her dog. 

Stop being so judgemental. I'm sure you have reacted in less than stellar manner at some point or another, even though what Sproket did is probably what MOST women would have done in that case! The way you are reacting to THIS thread makes me think YOU need anger management


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

nupe said:


> It just took 6 pages for the story to expand or to hear about the tail up, eyes locked and hackles up. Yes thats different!!


Well boo-hoo....so Em didnt explain EVERY little detail, its not as if she wrote this post SUPER happy about kicking the dog, it was FAR more for the fact that her young-ish pup stood PERFECTLY waiting for HER to react! Its not as if every single one of us writes out the EXACT detail of EVERY SINGLE post!

Jeezus, to here some of you react its as if Sprocket posted a video of her going into this strange dog's yard and then beating him just cause he looked at her!

I still say that if ANY DOG ran at me, and then mounted ANY of my dogs I WOULD boot them off as soon as they didnt react to my verbal commands....period end of story!


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

Scarlett_O' said:


> Well boo-hoo....so Em didnt explain EVERY little detail, its not as if she wrote this post SUPER happy about kicking the dog, it was FAR more for the fact that her young-ish pup stood PERFECTLY waiting for HER to react! Its not as if every single one of us writes out the EXACT detail of EVERY SINGLE post!
> 
> Jeezus, to here some of you react its as if Sprocket posted a video of her going into this strange dog's yard and then beating him just cause he looked at her!
> 
> I still say that if ANY DOG ran at me, and then mounted ANY of my dogs I WOULD boot them off as soon as they didnt react to my verbal commands....period end of story!


Considering that this post was about how great my dog was, I didn't deem it necessary to include details about how terrible the dog was. 

I am glad that I lucked out, adopted a pitbull from a high kill shelter and got a good one. He could have turned out DA or just plain D. I am happy he is a sweet, pup who loves small dogs and would rather sit in your lap and lick your face.

He could have been a timid dog as well. Thankfully he is well adjusted and just wants to please.


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## nupe (Apr 26, 2011)

Scarlett_O' said:


> Well boo-hoo....so Em didnt explain EVERY little detail, its not as if she wrote this post SUPER happy about kicking the dog, it was FAR more for the fact that her young-ish pup stood PERFECTLY waiting for HER to react! Its not as if every single one of us writes out the EXACT detail of EVERY SINGLE post!
> 
> Jeezus, to here some of you react its as if Sprocket posted a video of her going into this strange dog's yard and then beating him just cause he looked at her!
> 
> I still say that if ANY DOG ran at me, and then mounted ANY of my dogs I WOULD boot them off as soon as they didnt react to my verbal commands....period end of story!



LOL @ Period end of story,,,,well you told me.  Actually the little details she left out of story confirms the dog was being or starting to be aggressive...so yes it is a tad important.


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## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

Except that this post wasn't about the other dog. It was how well Gunner reacted in an uncomfortable situation.


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## nupe (Apr 26, 2011)

...and we all agreed he did excellent no question....but does that mean we ignore and not comment on her kicking the dog if we choose to?? or think she could have handled it differently....Once again her dog did excellent no one even questions that at all!!


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## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

No one said that you couldn't comment on it. I just don't see how, when she was talking about Gunner and how well he did that all other information was crucial. She wasn't posting about an aggressive dog. She was posting about Gunner.

ADD: I'm done with arguing over this. Some of us would have and have kicked dogs and some of us feel it is wrong. That is why the world remains an interesting place. If we were all the same, life would be excruciatingly dull.


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

nupe said:


> ...and we all agreed he did excellent no question....but does that mean we ignore and not comment on her kicking the dog if we choose to?? or think she could have handled it differently....Once again her dog did excellent no one even questions that at all!!


Oh get off it already! You have failed in ruffling my feathers. Now run along and find someone else who you can poke your stick at.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

I still think its pointless to judge her actions when NONE of us were there. Until you're in the moment, living the experience it's hard for any of us to know what really happened and what she should have done instead. Adrenaline can easily take over a persons reactions, only relying on gut instinct. I've been there and it sucks. 

I think she's been given great advice for the future if it were to happen again and on that note this discussion is pretty much over.


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