# Day six - poop question



## shellbell (Sep 24, 2011)

The boys have been on raw six days now. From day one, they both had perfect poops. Very small and firm. I have been feeding a portion of whole ground chicken in the morning (this does include bone and giblets), and a chicken quarter in the evening for both of them. I know I had read that it is not a good idea to start out right away with organs, but I didn't think it was a super high amount that was in the ground portion, so I figured I would try it and see what happens. And like I said, poops were awesome, so I figured I would stick with that routine. 

This morning Tux pooped for me, and it looked great as normal. Tonight we were walking, and his first poop started out firm, then got kind of loose and the last piece looked like it was covered in mucus. I also noticed a hunk of a stick came out with it (he is bad about eating sticks and leaves in the yard, I am always having to watch him). He had a second poop while we we were walking, and this was all loose, and had mucus and a dark red substance (blood?) in it as well. 

He is acting perfectly fine and normal. There was a small bit of vomit when I came home from work, mainly bile and black hair. So I'm thinking that was Tux. He licks himself a lot like a cat, and occassionally does throw up...hairballs I guess you could call them. So that didn't concern me so much, but the poop has me a little concerned. I thought I would wait and see what it looks like tomorrow, and then evaluate if I need to do anything different. 

Edited to add that I had been feeding Primal nuggets for about a month and a half before switching to full on raw. The boys were getting these as a meal a few times a week, and had them as a meal for a full solid week before I switched to doing raw the "right" way...the Primal nuggets did have organ in them.

Any thoughts/suggestions?


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Wait for the experts to chime in, but I think that means you are overfeeding, with the hard poop followed by the soft poop.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

It can also be due to exercise. When dogs move a lot it stimulates their intestines to move which is called peristalsis. Sometimes the more active the gut is the looser the stools can be.

I would follow the advice of not feeding organs so soon, even in small amounts. Waiting until a few months into the switch is important to make the transition smoother for you and the dog. Doing prey model raw is completely different than premade patties. So I don't think it makes a difference in transition rates when you start out on premade stuff. 

Also, why are you feeding ground food again? I can't remember if you've told me before or not.


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## Northwoods10 (Nov 22, 2010)

Shell-

From my experience with the pups and raw...exercise has a huge affect on their stools. If its even remotely warm, or they've been running around A LOT they tend to have lose stools. They start out firm, but then seem a little soft/mushy and maybe a little mucousy. Nothing to worry about. 

Continue with your feeidng practices and see how he is tomorrow. 

I think Shell is feeding ground because that is what she has access to, kind of like me. Hard to find whole boneless pieces that aren't ground without spending a fortune. We feed a lot of ground or "chunked" meat for our boneless and then obviously bone in is whole pieces. Its what we can afford and what works. 

Sometimes ground stuff can harbor more bacteria but I highly doubt that is your issue Shell since they've been doing so well up until now and you mentioned exercise. No sweat, just a minor bump in the road. Tux will get over it.


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## hmbutler (Aug 4, 2011)

DaneMama said:


> It can also be due to exercise. When dogs move a lot it stimulates their intestines to move which is called peristalsis. Sometimes the more active the gut is the looser the stools can be.


would this be why sometimes after a long brisk walk or a play with another dog, Duke has a bit of a runny stool? I've noticed a few times he seems to be a bit runnier on those days, as opposed to lazier days, and I was thinking I needed to feed more bone (which he does get quite a bit of)


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## Northwoods10 (Nov 22, 2010)

hmbutler said:


> would this be why sometimes after a long brisk walk or a play with another dog, Duke has a bit of a runny stool? I've noticed a few times he seems to be a bit runnier on those days, as opposed to lazier days, and I was thinking I needed to feed more bone (which he does get quite a bit of)


That is my experience as well. When my dogs are more active, at the beach, at dock dogs, etc. they seem to have a little over-active gut and it might result in a lose stool or be a bit runny. Easy fix, compensate the next day and everything is good. :smile:


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## hmbutler (Aug 4, 2011)

Northwoods10 said:


> That is my experience as well. When my dogs are more active, at the beach, at dock dogs, etc. they seem to have a little over-active gut and it might result in a lose stool or be a bit runny. Easy fix, compensate the next day and everything is good. :smile:


Thats good to know... plus Duke is a black lab and the weather has just started heating up (and was the warmest day of the last few weeks when I noticed the particularly runny stool after our walk) so the heat could be doing it to him, yeh? I'll keep monitoring him but I dont think it's happened since, its good to know there is a likely cause other than bacteria/digestive upset etc :smile:

Shell I've had duke on full raw for 8 weeks today, and I haven't introduced organs yet. I only introduced beef about a week ago, and started with beef trimmings, and will be slowly giving him beed heart before introducing organs (he's had pork heart and handles it ok, so hoping the beef heart isn't too rich). Since adding the heart I have had to monitor his stools a bit more closely, I tend to have to feed it with chicken frames or something else bony while he gets use to it, which is why I want to wait a bit longer for the organs.


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## Northwoods10 (Nov 22, 2010)

I highly recommend having at least 2-3 proteins down PAT before you add in organs. And when you do add in organs....go slow. "Painfully slow" has been a term used here which describes it well. Go much slower than you think you need to. (We can thank Serenity-FL for that one!) There's no rush....slow & steady wins the race!!


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## shellbell (Sep 24, 2011)

Thanks everyone, the comments about exercise and heat stimulating the gut more and causing loose stools would also make sense. Yesterday got pretty hot, hotter than it has been in the past few weeks. It was in the 80s and it had been in the 70s, so maybe that had something to do with it. We always walk three miles a day though, and it has never caused the loose stools before...so I don't know if the heat contributed more to that or what.

And yes, I'm feeding ground mainly b/c that is what I could find a lot of easily. And I thought that they both were handling it fine (even with a bit of organ ground in there), since their poops have both been perfect for the first six days on raw. 

I walked Tux around a bit this morning to see if he would poop and he didn't. Which to me is kind of a good sign, it seems like usually when there is an episode of loose stools, there is usually a lag of time in between the loose stool and the next time that they go when hopefully it is firmed up again. 

He will probably poop for me this afternoon/evening and I'll see what that looks like. Right now since I am just doing chicken, if he still has loose stools, should I try giving him a chicken quarter both in the morning and in the evening, instead of doing ground in the morning and a chicken quarter in the evening? Should I be concerned that there did seem to be a bit of blood in the stool as well?


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## Northwoods10 (Nov 22, 2010)

You certainly could just do chicken quarters, and maybe try removing the skin too. At this point though I don't think you need to worry, a loose stool here & there happens. The blood is completely normal too. Their bodies need time to adjust- just keep an eye on it. 

If it doesn't improve by his next BM, try just whole bone in chicken for a couple meals and see if that helps.


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## shellbell (Sep 24, 2011)

Thanks Kelley! I think that is what I will do, is just keep an eye on his next BM and go from there. If it is normal I won’t change anything, if it is loose again I’ll start giving him chicken quarters for both meals and see if that helps.


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## jenv101 (Oct 13, 2010)

Yeah if the blood was bright red, its probably just an irritation from either a piece of bone or the sticks. My guys eat sticks too, and it happens occassionally!


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

I think I would stay away from the ground. I doubt its the problem, but ground can cause problems, possibly aggrivating something else in the intestines. (the sticks etc...) Just a thaught. :biggrin1:


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## KittyKat (Feb 11, 2011)

WOW... this is great to know about exercise... my dog gets a 4k run every day and i've noticed since this was started (about a month ago) her poops have been softer.... and she loves to poop during her run. I've been contemplating adding more bone... but this makes sense. =D


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## shellbell (Sep 24, 2011)

Went walking again today, Tux pooped and it was pudding like in consistency. That was his one and only BM of the day. Not sure if this is related to eating ground meat, or the fact that it was hotter than usual yesterday and today. We walk three miles at a time when we walk, have been doing this every day for a couple of years. 

I just think it's weird that his first six days on raw he had perfect poops from the beginning, and I haven't changed anything that I've been doing. So not really sure what the deal is.

I think for now I will withold giving him any of the ground chicken, and just give him chicken quarters for each meal and see if things improve in the next couple of days.

Cabo's poops still look perfect with getting the portion of whole ground chicken in the morning, and a chicken quarter in the evening.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

how much does he weigh? 


another reason not to feed ground is because it can get stuck between their teeth and they don't know how to use toothpicks as we do


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## shellbell (Sep 24, 2011)

magicre said:


> how much does he weigh? are both dogs on raw? are they both having loose stools?
> 
> another reason not to feed ground is because it can get stuck between their teeth and they don't know how to use toothpicks as we do


Tux weighs 52 lbs. Cabo is also on raw, they both started the same time and have been eating the exact same things. Cabo is still having perfect poops.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

This just happens sometimes. There are zero benefits to feeding ground meats vs whole chunks, unless your dogs are toothless! I'd cut out the ground for both of themat least for the remainder or the transition.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

DaneMama said:


> This just happens sometimes. There are zero benefits to feeding ground meats vs whole chunks, unless your dogs are toothless! I'd cut out the ground for both of themat least for the remainder or the transition.


With a (practically) toothless dog, I say amen to that. Even then, i tend to cut up chunks of meat for her and feed her as little ground as possible, and the ground i do feed her has bones in it.

I have such limited experience with raw feeding, but I do know recently my big dog's poops were pudding-like and it took me awhile to figure out i wasn't giving him enough bone - when i added in a chicken wing in the morning and a chicken neck at night, they firmed up nicely. 

I wonder if one dog vs. the other just needs a little bit more bone.


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## tuckersmom20 (Dec 12, 2010)

Dogs systems do get aggrevated so loose or mushy poops happen.

Tuck sometimes has mushy poops for no reason... But on trail runs he does have looser than normal poops.
Exercise does play into the poop game 

Also the only ground I feed is ground beef.
I used to feed ground turkey and chicken but I've left that supplier... So now it's only beef.


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## Khan (Jan 17, 2010)

xellil said:


> I wonder if one dog vs. the other just needs a little bit more bone.


You hit the nail on the head!! We have 3 and they all have different requirements. Shelby is 12lbs, yet she gets almost 8oz of food each day! I know I'm mathematically challenged; but that's more than the Guideline suggests. Bonzi on the other hand chunks up, if he goes over the 2% rule. Khan is better off having a small amount of bone with what "should be" his boneless meal. 

I know in the beginning it's all about making sure "We" are doing it right. We don't want to give too much or too little, and this is all foreign to how we are use to feeding. 
What it does do is make you really pay attention to your dog as an individual, rather than a Scoop size on the back of a bag!! 

Remember, the Guidelines are just that, Guidelines. They are a great starting off point; but depending on the results you see in your house, they may need to be changed/modified to fit your situation. That's the beauty of this diet. We control everything!


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## shellbell (Sep 24, 2011)

Thanks everyone. The ground I am feeding does have bone in at least. I need to use it up, and Cabo is not having issues on it, so I will continue to let him eat it. I started giving Tux chicken quarters at each meal, and this morning I peeled some of the skin off. 

Tux took a 5AM poop outside. It is still mushier than I would like, but it is starting to form up, so hopefully it is on its way to being back to normal. 

I know everyone says that ground is not a good idea, and I would prefer not to feed it at all if possible. However the place I am ordering from (the only place in this area I could find to order from) sells a lot of ground. I will probably for awhile continue to feed it to some extent. I think the reason Tux was having issues might be from the organ that is in it, and I know it's still very early for organ. Though Cabo is doing fine with it. And who knows, maybe it wasn't even the ground that was giving Tux issues, since he had perfect poops for six days on it. 

Right now I'm not too stressed about it, I will just continue to monitor and adjust as needed.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

I am feeding more ground up organs because it's easier to scoop it with a spoon than to chase slimy meat all over the counter, trying to cut little strings to get two pieces while it's squirting out of my fingers and then in the end have it slide between the stove and the counter. Even though my smaller dog eats alot of organ for her size, I can't just throw a big chunk at her - it has to be cut pretty small.

if ground is what you get, I don't really see a huge problem with that - you gotta do what you gotta do! As long as they are still getting the bones to help their teeth I don't see that it hurts. 

The place I buy meat has alot of ground stuff also (I keep wondering why) and I just bought some ground goat that has bones and organs in it. I bought the "goat chunks" before and they were pretty much all bone.

I bet in the end though if you can find un-ground meat it would be cheaper. It seems to me the ground up stuff is always higher.

I'm glad the poops are getting better! I think you are a good example of how you just have to trial and error alot - you're feeding two dogs the same and yet they aren't reacting the same, so you have to adjust for one a little bit.


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