# Diatomaceous Earth?



## candiceb (Jan 22, 2010)

Hello all,

I know this may be a little off-topic from raw feeding, so I apologize, however I know that many of you who raw-feed also practice alternative and homeopathic medicine and remedies for your pets. So for those of you, I'm looking for a little advice.

My mom has a GSP female that is probably going to be bred on her next heat cycle, which should be next month. In preparation, she is looking at making sure she is not exposed to any unsafe chemicals before, during, or after pregnancy. Comfortis, the flea preventative she has been on, is not safe for pregnant/lactating bitches, and neither is Advantix. She called the vet's office and asked about Adams flea spray (the website said to ask your vet), and they said it was fine, but she didn't really feel comfortable with that answer.

I still use Advantix myself, but I know many people use Diatomaceous Earth on their cats and dogs. I googled it, and found only one link (so far) that said it was not safe for pregnant/lactating bitches, but it didn't say why. I was hoping to get a little user feedback from some of you, and maybe some websites I can forward to my mom, showing that DE is safe (if it is), or if it isn't, what she can use.

Thanks in advance! :smile:


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## RachelsaurusRexU (Sep 4, 2010)

The only negative I can think of off the top of my head, and this really isn't even pertaining to pregnant dogs specifically, is that DE really should not be inhaled. I'd imagine that it could be pretty harmful if she were treated with DE and the dust was inhaled by tiny developing puppy lungs.


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

Adams flea spray is not a poison. It doesn't kill fleas, it just supposedly repells them. I don't know how. I just know its not a poison.

I have known people on different discussion boards that used DE. Some sware by it and some sware at it.


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## cast71 (Sep 16, 2010)

I would only use DE on pets, bedding and around the house for infestations. Always use food grade. Others have harmful chemicals in it. I agree the only problem I could see is inhaling it. I wouldn't use it as a preventative, because it's messy, dusty, dries out skin and really doesn't last on pets fur. It's awesome as a spot on for flea infestations or any other insects for that matter. I use it around my foundation and put 1 cup with 1 tablespoon of dish liquid detergent in a pump sprayer and spray my yard in summer. It takes care of ticks, fleas, ants, termites....and the list goes on. Rain washes it away, so reapply when you start seeing signs of pests. I apply it a few times a summer. If you want an alternative flea repeller, add 2 tablespoons of organic ACV to the drinking water 5 days a week.


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## Jackielyn (May 27, 2009)

The thing about DE is that you have to buy FOOD GRADE DE. I believe you can only buy it online, gardening stores carry it but it's not safe to be around (only used outside). If you buy food grade DE you can put in in your dogs food or put it in their fur without problems or sprinkle it in your carpets. DE is tiny little crystals that cut the flea (or other pest) from the inside and that is why regular DE isn't safe to inhale. I am unsure if it's safe to use with pregnant or lactating dogs though. 

Have you looked into essential oils? Lemongrass or neem oil can be sprayed and are good flea preventatives, spray (diluted with water) it on your dogs bedding and in the carpets. I'm not sure of safety with pregnant/lactating dogs. Hope she finds something that works!


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## RachelsaurusRexU (Sep 4, 2010)

The active ingredients in Adams are pyrethrins. 


"INTRODUCTION

Pyrethrins are natural insecticides produced by certain species of the chrysanthemum plant. The flowers of the plant are harvested shortly after blooming and are either dried and powdered or the oils within the flowers are extracted with solvents. The resulting pyrethrin containing dusts and extracts usually have an active ingredient content of about 30%. These active insecticidal components are collectively known as pyrethrins. Two pyrethrins are most prominent, pyrethrin-I and pyrethrin-II. The pyrethrins have another four different active ingredients, Cinerin I and II and Jasmolin I and II. Pyrethrin compounds have been used primarily to control human lice, mosquitoes, cockroaches, beetles and flies. Some "pyrethrin dusts," used to control insects in horticultural crops, are only 0.3% to 0.5% pyrethrins, and are used at rates of up to 50 lb/A. Other pyrethrin compounds may be used in grain storage and in poultry pens and on dogs and cats to control lice and fleas.
The natural pyrethrins are contact poisons which quickly penetrate the nerve system of the insect. A few minutes after application, the insect cannot move or fly away. But, a "knockdown dose" does not mean a killing dose. The natural pyrethrins are swiftly detoxified by enzymes in the insect. Thus, some pests will recover. To delay the enzyme action so a lethal dose is assured, organophosphates, carbamates, or synergists may be added to the pyrethrins.

Semisynthetic derivatives of the chrysanthemumic acids have been developed as insecticides. These are called pyrethroids and tend to be more effective than natural pyrethrins while they are less toxic to mammals. One common synthetic pyrethroid is allethrin.

In this report, the term "pyrethrins" refers to the natural insecticides derived from chrysanthemum flowers; "pyrethroids" are the synthetic chemicals, and "pyrethrum" is a general name covering both compounds. The EPA classifies pyrethrin-I as a Restricted Use Pesticide (RUP). Restricted Use Pesticides may be purchased and used only by certified applicators.

TOXICOLOGICAL EFFECTS

ACUTE TOXICITY

Synthetic pyrethroid compounds vary in their toxicity as do the natural pyrethrins. Pyrethrum carries the signal word CAUTION. Inhaling high levels of pyrethrum may bring about asthmatic breathing, sneezing, nasal stuffiness, headache, nausea, incoordination, tremors, convulsions, facial flushing and swelling, and burning and itching sensations (5). The most severe poisonings have been reported in infants, who are not able to efficiently break down pyrethrum. The lowest lethal oral dose of pyrethrum is 750 mg/kg for children and 1,000 mg/kg for adults (5). Oral LD50 values of pyrethrins in rats range from 200 mg/kg to greater than 2,600 mg/kg (4). Some of this variability is due to the variety of constituents in the formulation. Mice have a pyrethrum oral LD50 of 370 mg/kg (5). Animals exposed to toxic amounts may experience tongue and lip numbness, nausea, and diarrhea. Symptoms may also include incoordination, tremors, convulsions, paralysis, respiratory failure, and death.
Pyrethroids can cause two quite different responses at near lethal doses in rats; aggressive sparring and a sensitivity to external stimuli progressing to tremors is the one response and pawing and burrowing behavior, and salivation leading to chronic seizures is the other (8). Human response to these two different types of pyrethroids has not yet been evaluated. Recovery from serious poisoning in mammals is fairly rapid.

Rats and rabbits are not affected by large dermal applications (4, 5). On broken skin, pyrethrum produces irritation and sensitization, which is further aggravated by sun exposure.

CHRONIC TOXICITY

Absorption of pyrethrum through the stomach and intestines and through the skin is slow. However, humans can absorb pyrethrum more quickly through the lungs during respiration. Response appears to depend on the pyrethrum compound used. Overall, pyrethrins and pyrethroids are of low chronic toxicity to humans and the most common problems in humans have resulted from the allergenic properties of pyrethrum (7). Patch tests for allergic reaction are an important tool in determining an individuals sensitivity to these compounds.
Many of the natural and synthetic compounds can produce skin irritation, itching, pricking sensations and local burning sensations. These symptoms may last for about two days (8).

Reproductive Effects

Rabbits that received pyrethrins orally at high doses during the sensitive period of pregnancy had normal litters. A group of rats fed very high levels of pyrethrins daily for three weeks before first mating had litters with weanling weights much lower than normal (4). Overall, pyrethrins appear to have low reproductive toxicity.
Teratogenic Effects

The one rabbit reproduction study performed showed no effect of pyrethrins on development of the offspring (3). More information is needed.
Mutagenic Effects

No information was found.
Carcinogenic Effects

No carcinogenic status has been established for pyrethrins or pyrethroids.
Organ Toxicity

In mammals, tissue storage has not been recorded. At high doses, pyrethrum can be damaging to the central nervous system and the immune system. When the immune system is attacked by pyrethrum, allergies can be worsened.
Animals fed large doses of pyrethrins may experience liver damage. Rats fed pyrethrin at high levels for two years showed no significant effect on survival, but slight, definite damage to the livers was observed (4). Inhalation of high doses of pyrethrum for 30 minutes each day for 31 days caused slight lung irritation in rats and dogs (5).

Fate in Humans and Animals

Pyrethrins, pyrethroids, and their metabolites are not known to be stored in the body nor excreted in the milk (2). The urine and feces of people given oral doses of pyrethrum contain chrysanthemumic acid and other metabolites (2, 4). These metabolites are less toxic to mammals than are the parent compounds (3). Pyrethrins I and II are excreted unchanged in the feces (2). Other pyrethrum components undergo rapid destruction and detoxification in the liver and gastrointestinal tract (4)."


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## Jackielyn (May 27, 2009)

I've heard garlic and brewers yeast can be used to prevent fleas too...unsure how effective though.


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

*DE*

We feed DE in ground meat meatballs for all the dogs in spring and summer. I also give it to a bitch I am planning to breed. I start a couple months before and until she is done weaning. I have not had fleas in years and the puppies rarely have worms. We also naturally worm with shredded carrot or coconut.


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## RachelsaurusRexU (Sep 4, 2010)

Jackielyn said:


> The thing about DE is that you have to buy FOOD GRADE DE. I believe you can only buy it online, gardening stores carry it but it's not safe to be around (only used outside). If you buy food grade DE you can put in in your dogs food or put it in their fur without problems or sprinkle it in your carpets. DE is tiny little crystals that cut the flea (or other pest) from the inside and that is why regular DE isn't safe to inhale. I am unsure if it's safe to use with pregnant or lactating dogs though.
> 
> Have you looked into essential oils? Lemongrass or neem oil can be sprayed and are good flea preventatives, spray (diluted with water) it on your dogs bedding and in the carpets. I'm not sure of safety with pregnant/lactating dogs. Hope she finds something that works!


Feed stores generally carry food grade DE, and sometimes garden centers. Its commonly used in backyard poultry keeping and many people use it as a natural insecticide in vegetable gardens. Food grade DE is still harmful if inhaled. It's recommended that people wear masks when applying it. 

The other kind of DE is commonly used in swimming pools. This can be found at pool stores and hardware stores. (***To reiterate, this DE is toxic and should never be used on animals!)

The


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## Boxers&Pom's Mom (Jan 17, 2011)

Liz said:


> We feed DE in ground meat meatballs for all the dogs in spring and summer. I also give it to a bitch I am planning to breed. I start a couple months before and until she is done weaning. I have not had fleas in years and the puppies rarely have worms. We also naturally worm with shredded carrot or coconut.


Dear Liz,
So you just add it to the ground meat every day? I was reading and it is like 2 tablespoon for dogs 50 lbs +?
I did not know about it. It sound really interesting.
Can you put it in any food?


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## cast71 (Sep 16, 2010)

Farmers put it in animal feeds to keep bugs out of the feeds and to worm the animals. Insects cannot build immunity to it because its a mechanical killer. Its ground up sea irchants shells. There razor sharp and cut through insects outer protective body exposing them to bacteria. The poor pests than die hehehehe. I've used it to exterminate bedbugs 100% effectively;0) I've also used it to kill boring beetles that were trying to take down my cabin. Guess who one, DE!!!! I also used it as a dewormer for my dog. I stopped using it because I give garlic and coconut oil which are also dewormers. I still have DE sitting in a jar on my countertop just incase;0)


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## cast71 (Sep 16, 2010)

Boxers&Pom's Mom said:


> Dear Liz,
> So you just add it to the ground meat every day? I was reading and it is like 2 tablespoon for dogs 50 lbs +?
> I did not know about it. It sound really interesting.
> Can you put it in any food?


You don't have to give it every day. Treat it as a dewormer. Give it for a week out of every month;0) Or you can give it 3 times a week. I use to give 1 tablespoon and my dog is 85 lbs. They sell food grade on amazon and ebay, in case you can't get it locally.


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