# Contacted Champion re: changes to Orijen



## DDBsR4Me (Jan 23, 2012)

Well, I contacted Champion to see if they could tell me what changes are going to be made to their Orijen formulas (I don't really want to switch over until I know that the changes are going to be)

But the customer service rep that replied to my email couldn't tell me! Here's the response I got: 



"Thank you for contacting us with your question.

Whenever we make changes to ACANA or ORIJEN foods we are trying to get closer to our mandate of creating Biologically Appropriate Pet foods from Fresh, Regional Ingredients.

I am not aware at this time exactly what changes are planned for our ORIJEN formulas.

I encourage you to continue to regularly check our webpage as any information about new formulas will be posted there.

Warm Regards,

Megan

Customer Care

Champion Petfoods LP"


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## Jacksons Mom (Jun 13, 2010)

I'm getting kind of annoyed with them.

Have heard of 3 dogs recently (all yorkies) who did fantastic on the previous formulas and are now an itchy mess, two of them getting a rash-like thing on their belly that went away once they took them off the new Acana formula.

Not to mention the smaller bags and increased (or some may be the same) prices.

I don't really even see what the point was.

Here was one of their responses:

ME:
Was there a formula change for Acana??

Acana-Orijen:
Yes there were plenty of changes in Acana !!!
A lot of BRAND new formulas were added in the series, such as Duck & Bartlett Pear.
Others were improved and all of them got BRAND NEW packaging !!
Find out for yourself and we think you will agree that our NEW Acana series is better than ever !!
ACANA represents a new class of foods that mirrors the high and various inclusions of fresh, whole meats that dogs and cats are naturally evolved to eat, while excluding inappropriate ingredients – like high-glycemic grains and vegetable proteins – that don't belong in the natural diet.

ME:
Thanks for the response!! - I ask because my Yorkie started getting dark dry patches on his Tummy.... which I think are a type of food allergy. They started when I started feeding him a new bag of the Wild Prairie Acana. I belong to a YorkshireTerrier Forum and there is another Yorkie on there that went to the Vet yesterday because he has became Very Itchy on one of the Singles Lines and was put back on Ranchlands and the itchies did not stop. The Vet said it was a food allergy. He had Never had a problem with Acana before, nor did my Yorkie. I have switched him to Canine Caviar and he is clearing up and doing much better. There are a few others on the Yorkie Forum whose pups are not doing well with the New Bags. We are all going to Write to let Champion know.


Champion: I am very sorry to hear that.
*Although Acana Wild Prairie is from the provincial series - that neither changed the formula nor the packaging-* I would encourage you to look into the issue further, as dogs present allergies to 2 basic things:

GRAIN and some source of animal protein.
As Wild Prairie is completely GRAIN-FREE I will assume chicken might be the factor that is causing it. So I would highly recommend Acana Grasslands which again is GRAIN-FREE but features ranch-raised LAMB -and just a tad bit of duck-
Both sources of HIGHLY hypo-allergenic and easily digestible animal protein. The first thing a vet will suggest is to switch to either duck or lamb.
Please do let champion pet foods know, but I am sure that if you follow my advice, everything should clear up if it is a food allergy.

*What does that mean? They DID change that formula?*


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## SaharaNight Boxers (Jun 28, 2011)

I'm slowly running out of kibbles I would ever feed...


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## 6Goldens (Aug 3, 2012)

According to reports in the local paper, Champion is struggling with their plant odor. I don't think their plant smells any worse than any other animal food plant; but, unfortunately, it is located right in town. It is a difficult issue because Champion is the town's major employer. Champion has invested millions and not solved the problem. Now they have erected a very tall stack designed to "shoot" the smell high into the air. These capital investments will surely require price increases and manufacturing changes to reduce cost and control odor. This is primarily why I decided to find an alternative to 6Fish.


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## shellbell (Sep 24, 2011)

Champion is known for its poor customer service from what I hear....


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## DDBsR4Me (Jan 23, 2012)

6Goldens said:


> This is primarily why I decided to find an alternative to 6Fish.


Do you mind sharing the alternative you found? My boy really likes the samples of the 6 Fish I've gotten, and I was actually thinking about switching him over to it, but I'm afraid to considering they are going to change the Orijen formulas but are *"not aware at this time exactly what changes are planned"*. 

To me that seems like a load of carp!


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## SaharaNight Boxers (Jun 28, 2011)

DDBsR4Me said:


> Do you mind sharing the alternative you found? My boy really likes the samples of the 6 Fish I've gotten, and I was actually thinking about switching him over to it, but I'm afraid to considering they are going to change the Orijen formulas but are *"not aware at this time exactly what changes are planned"*.
> 
> To me that seems like a load of carp!


It's Dr. Tim's. It's definitely not on the same level ingredient wise so I don't know if I'd call it an alternative.


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## 6Goldens (Aug 3, 2012)

SaharaNight Boxers said:


> It's Dr. Tim's. It's definitely not on the same level ingredient wise so I don't know if I'd call it an alternative.


Sahara, what do you consider the most significant differences which make Pursuit inferior to 6Fish. What foods would you consider to be the same level as 6Fish, ingrediants wise? Finally, do you think I really need to feed 38% protein? Thanks.


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## SaharaNight Boxers (Jun 28, 2011)

The ingredients of Pursuit(450 kcals):

Chicken meal, brown rice flour, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), oat flour, dried beet pulp (sugar removed), dried whole eggs, rice bran, menhaden fish oil (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), ocean herring meal, flax seed meal, catfish meal, chicken liver meal, dried porcine plasma protein, salmon meal, lecithin, potassium chloride, salt, canola oil, dried Enterococcus faecium fermentation product, dried Saccharomyces cerevisiae fermentation product, dried Lactobacillus acidophilus fermentation product, dried chicory root, calcium carbonate, yucca shidigera extract, organic kelp meal, dried psyllium seed husk, choline chloride, DL-methionine, L-lysine, algae fat product (a source of DHA), L-ascorbyl-2 polyphosphate (stabilized ascorbic acid), vitamin E supplement, L-carnitine, zinc sulfate, zinc proteinate, taurine, beta carotene, ferrous sulfate, ascorbic acid (source of vitamin C), manganese sulfate, inositol, niacin supplement, iron proteinate, manganese proteinate, zinc oxide, biotin, thiamine mononitrate (source of vitamin B1), copper sulfate, pyridoxine hydrochloride (source of vitamin B6), copper proteinate, vitamin A supplement, riboflavin supplement (source of vitamin B2), calcium pantothenate, potassium iodide (source of iodine), manganous oxide, vitamin B12 supplement, sodium selenite, vitamin D3 supplement, folic acid, rosemary extract.

Ingredients for 6Fish (480 kcals):

Fresh boneless salmon*, salmon meal, herring meal, fresh boneless herring*, fresh boneless walleye*, russet potato, sweet potato, peas, salmon oil (preserved with mixed tocopherols), fresh boneless lake whitefish*, sun-cured alfalfa, fresh boneless flounder*, fresh boneless northern pike*, pea fiber, organic kelp, pumpkin, carrots, spinach, turnip greens, apples, cranberries, blueberries, licorice root, angelica root, fenugreek, marigold flowers, sweet fennel, peppermint leaf, chamomile, dandelion, summer savory, rosemary, vitamin A, vitamin D3, vitamin E, niacin, thiamine mononitrate, riboflavin, calcium pantothenate, pyridoxine, folic acid, biotin, vitamin B12, zinc proteinate, iron proteinate, manganese proteinate, copper proteinate, selenium yeast, Lactobacillus acidophilus, Enterococcus faecium. *

* DELIVERED FRESH, preservative-free and never frozen. 

Just looking at it 6Fish seems superior with all the meat. I like that they use salmon and herring meal as those are great oily fish to feed.

The Pursuit starts out ok with chicken meal, but is then followed with brown rice flour. I personally just don't like this ingredient. I don't understan why they felt the need to use a flour instead of the straight ingredient of brown rice, and I believe the flour is cheaper. It's followed by chicken fat. Some believe fat in the first four ingredients ccan increase the risk of bloat, some don't. I'd rather not chance it personally. Followed by oat flour. Again they use flour. And to me oats are for horses, not dogs. Although they are a preferred carb for barf fed dogs apparently. And nest again some like beet pulp some see it as a filler, that would be me included. At least the sugar's removed. Rice bran, really more rice? The menhaen fish oil looked good at first,, but it's preserved with citric acid. When you a water it again helps bloat. So that's alreay two things that could cause bloat...definitely not what I want. The ocean herring meal is nice...too bad it's so far down on the list. Flax seed meal is ok, helps with coat, but again why does it have to be a meal? Catfish meal, I wish I knew what kind of catfish, there's so many species. As far as I know they aren't that great nutritionally across the board though an are farmed extensively. Chicken liver meal-good, but why is it a meal again? And again too ba it's so far down the list. Ok so the next one os pig plasma, while plasma has great nutrients I would prefer it come from a better animal than the pig. Salmon meal, great too bad it's far down. Lecithin is just a binder. 

Then it goes into vitamins and minerals. I don't like the canola oil though. It really has no purpose in pet food to me.

Now for 6Fish...

Fresh salmon backed up with salmon meal. I can be sure this really is the first ingredient. The same is with the herring meal, except it's switched. Probably two of the best oily fish o feed dogs. I love it when ingredients are backed up like that. Next is Walleye, another good fish to feed. Russet potato, I don't love potatoes, but it's less than 20% of the forumla so it's ok here. Sweet potatoes, starchy which I don't like, but it's good for beta-carotene. Peas, they have some protein, not much else to me. Salmon oil, good and another back up for the salmon althoguh it might be preserved with soy. Lake whitefish, wish they told me which, but whitefish is good anyway. Alfalfa-don't love it, but it has good nutrients. Flounder and pike-more good fish to include. Pea fiber-helps keep everything moving if you know what I mean...kelp-I love kelp. It has so many nutrients and is great for coat an thyroid problems. Then it's followed by various veggies, herbs, grasses, an vtamins and minerals.

You might want to take a look at Evo Herring and Salmon. It seems comparable to me. It doen't have as many different fish, but it's a nice forumla to me.

Meat- and Poultry-Based Pet Food ? Premium Dog Food, Cat Food, Ferret Food, Dog Treats ? EVO Pet Products

And as far as protein fee how ever much you want. I don't think you can really have to much as long as everything is balanced out.


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## DaViking (Sep 27, 2011)

@SaharaNight

First of all, you have to compare Momentum to 6Fish and Evo, not Pursuit, that would be apples to oranges. But ok, I'll have a go at comparing anyway. *I don't* claim these numbers to be swissie accurate but they make somewhat sense based on what we know from public info on both of them, and they both balance and that is the main point here. Anyone are welcome to correct my numbers if they got some inside knowledge 

Pursuit
33%(animal1) + 23%(carb1) + 16%(animalfat1) + 10%(carb2) + 3%(animal2) + 2%(carb3) + 2%(animalfat2) + 2%(animal3) + 2%(animal4) + 1%(animal5) = 59% animal sources // $1.45/lb

6Fish
12%(animal1, wet) + 10%(animal2) + 10%(animal3) + 10%(animal4, wet) + 9%(animal5, wet) + 9%(carb1) + 8%(carb2) + 7%(carb3) + 7%(fat) + 4%(animal6, wet) + 2%(animal7, wet) + 1%(animal8, wet) = 65% animal sources // $2.69/lb

So, for $1.45/lb you'll get around 60% animal weight from Pursuit. *Add $1.24/lb* and you will get approximately 5% more animal weight from 6Fish. I take it that is what you mean with "6Fish seems superior with all the meat". Roughly 5 lousy percent more, that's about it after you look closer at the numbers.

6Fish uses potatoes and peas, plus pea and alfalfa fiber which has in no way been proven better or even equal to beet pulp as a source of dietary fiber. Do you understand what beet pulp (or any dietary fiber for that matter) is and what functions it perform? Research it and you'll learn that it is a critical component in maintaining a healthy digestive system, it is itself a feed, or fuel if you want. A filler is something that fills no role or purpose. As Dr Tim Hunt said in another thread, in today's premium and super premium food the only real filler would be excessive amounts of ash. (some exceptions but that's besides the point here)
Also why are potatoes, sweet potatoes and peas better than brown rice and oats?
I fail to see in what way 6Fish is superior, and considering the $1.24/lb difference it most certainly is not, not even close to being superior.

And this wasn't even compared to Momentum.

Bloat? Bloat? Dr. Tim Hunt is one of the worlds foremost authorities on feeding high stress canines. Do you think he would formulate a food that is likely to cause bloat? Roughhousing, play or any form of activity/stress around and after feeding time, regardless of food, are probably 1000 times more likely to cause bloat than 20% fat in the diet, or #4 ingredient. 20% is 20%, sometimes I wonder if everyone actually understand what a label means in real life when everything is translated into grams and calories. Not a sequence of ingredients that can easily be deceptive, on purpose or not.

This isn't meant to take away anything from 6Fish, I am sure it is great but at the end of the day 30 == 10+10+10 and 10+10+10 == 30



> "And as far as protein fee how ever much you want. I don't think you can really have to much as long as everything is balanced out."


Everyone is free to take advice from whomever they like I guess.


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## RedneckCowgirl (Oct 28, 2011)

SaharaNight Boxers said:


> I'm slowly running out of kibbles I would ever feed...


This. I'm to the point where when people ask me about kibble I tell them about all the recalls and issues _first_, then I ask what they are willing to deal with or if they want to know more about what *I* feed.


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## 6Goldens (Aug 3, 2012)

FWIW, Dr Tim's web site is out of date regarding Pursuit ingredients order. Here is the actual order of the first 8 ingredients: chicken meal, rice flour, chicken fat, herring meal, beet pulp, dried egg product, flaxseed meal and oat flour. I went with Pursuit vs Momentum because I wanted to step down a little on the protein. Regarding Omega 3, I don't count on the availability of omega 3's in kibble, even 6Fish which is why I supplement. Flaxseed meal is much better than flax seed as the seed would go right through. However, the conversion of ALA in flax and canola oil isn't very efficient. IOW, I don't buy kibble based on Omega 3. I don't understand "oats are for horses". Are peas, carrots, spinach, turnip greens, etc more appropriate for dogs than oats?

http://blog.halopets.com/2009/06/01/does-citric-acid/


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## InkedMarie (Sep 9, 2011)

DDBsR4Me said:


> Do you mind sharing the alternative you found? My boy really likes the samples of the 6 Fish I've gotten, and I was actually thinking about switching him over to it, but I'm afraid to considering they are going to change the Orijen formulas but are *"not aware at this time exactly what changes are planned"*.
> 
> To me that seems like a load of carp!


if you're okay with ordering your food, take a look at Brothers Complete It's made in Florida, they only sell it at their store & ship it. I have not fed it (I will in the future) but alot of people on the dogfoodadvisor website are raving about the results.


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## SaharaNight Boxers (Jun 28, 2011)

6Goldens said:


> FWIW, Dr Tim's web site is out of date regarding Pursuit ingredients order. Here is the actual order of the first 8 ingredients: chicken meal, rice flour, chicken fat, herring meal, beet pulp, dried egg product, flaxseed meal and oat flour. I went with Pursuit vs Momentum because I wanted to step down a little on the protein. Regarding Omega 3, I don't count on the availability of omega 3's in kibble, even 6Fish which is why I supplement. Flaxseed meal is much better than flax seed as the seed would go right through. However, the conversion of ALA in flax and canola oil isn't very efficient. IOW, I don't buy kibble based on Omega 3. I don't understand "oats are for horses". Are peas, carrots, spinach, turnip greens, etc more appropriate for dogs than oats?
> 
> ASK A VET: DOES CITRIC ACID CAUSE BLOAT? | Halo


Ok I still don't like the fat and rice flour being that high up. It looks like the sugar is back in the beet pulp which I don't like either and dried egg product is very vague. And oops yeah I was thinking they already ground it. I personally just don't think dogs need grains. Having Duke on a grain inclusive food cause him to have chronic ear infections. I would worry about that with Goldens too. If you switch over something tells me you'll see a difference. 

Here's the link of the real Purdue study

"Diet-related risk factors for gastric dilatation-volvulus in dogs of h" by Malathi Raghavan

It explains the risk factors for bloat and the fat and citric acid is on there. Halo skewed it around and defended it because they use it in their foods.


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## SaharaNight Boxers (Jun 28, 2011)

@DaViking

They asked about Pursuit, not Momentum.


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## DaViking (Sep 27, 2011)

SaharaNight Boxers said:


> @DaViking
> 
> They asked about Pursuit, not Momentum.


and I gave you a rough comparison with Pursuit, not Momentum.


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## SaharaNight Boxers (Jun 28, 2011)

DaViking said:


> @SaharaNight
> 
> First of all, you have to compare Momentum to 6Fish and Evo, not Pursuit, that would be apples to oranges. But ok, I'll have a go at comparing anyway. *I don't* claim these numbers to be swissie accurate but they make somewhat sense based on what we know from public info on both of them, and they both balance and that is the main point here. Anyone are welcome to correct my numbers if they got some inside knowledge
> 
> ...


As far as bloat if it has two things in it's forums which is known to cause bloat, I'm not even going to chance it. I don't want to find out if it will cause it for my dog or not. I definitely agree with the stress, but again I wouldn't take the chance. Boxers are a high incidence bloat breed. 

While I do not love potatoes I would rather have sweet potatoes (for beta carotene), potatoes, and peas than beet pulp because I personally just don't like the sugar in it. I understand some use it as a probiotic, but I think there's better out there like alfalfa. I know some like grains, but I don't. I saw the issues they cause for Duke and I've seen what dogs look like after they are taken off grain inclusive and they look a lot better and are healthier seeming. 

As far as the fish in 6Fish it has to be 80% as that's what they entail. As far as I know they can't lie about that. It's supposed to be 80% meat to 20% other.


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## 6Goldens (Aug 3, 2012)

SaharaNight Boxers said:


> Ok I still don't like the fat and rice flour being that high up. It looks like the sugar is back in the beet pulp which I don't like either and dried egg product is very vague. And oops yeah I was thinking they already ground it. I personally just don't think dogs need grains. Having Duke on a grain inclusive food cause him to have chronic ear infections. I would worry about that with Goldens too. If you switch over something tells me you'll see a difference.
> 
> Here's the link of the real Purdue study
> 
> ...


Regarding the Purdue study, I think it is not credible and to some extent laughable but that discussion is for another thread. You are way ahead of me on what you can determine from an ingredients list. How can you see that sugar is back in the beet pulp? Regarding your EVO recommendation, are you concerned about high ash levels? Since I am new here, I want to assure you I am searching for information, not debate. I have purchased just one bag of Pursuit. I have no connection to Dr Tim whatsoever or have any interest in promoting one food over another. I also have a bias against grain but don't see how potatoes or peas are any better. Once you get sufficient protein and fat from high quality sources, the balance will necessarily be carbs to bind the kibble and provide energy. As long as the carbs are digestible and have low GI, what is the problem? What I do not want is a kibble which relies on plant based protein and/or high ash animal meals.


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## SaharaNight Boxers (Jun 28, 2011)

6Goldens said:


> Regarding the Purdue study, I think it is not credible and to some extent laughable but that discussion is for another thread. You are way ahead of me on what you can determine from an ingredients list. How can you see that sugar is back in the beet pulp? Regarding your EVO recommendation, are you concerned about high ash levels? Since I am new here, I want to assure you I am searching for information, not debate. I have purchased just one bag of Pursuit. I have no connection to Dr Tim whatsoever or have any interest in promoting one food over another. I also have a bias against grain but t see how potatoes or peas are any better. Once you get sufficient protein and fat from high quality sources, the balance will necessarily be carbs to bind the kibble and provide energy. As long as the carbs are digestible and have low GI, what is the problem? What I do not want is a kibble which relies on plant based protein and/or high ash animal meals.


You're kidding about Purdue right? Purdue is probably the leading vet school in America. It has done the most with bloat research over many many years. I definitely trust that study. 

As far as beet pulp it's what I'm guessing since one said sugar removed and this one doesn't. 

I'm glad you see carbs as a binder. I personally don't think dogs need carbs, but a small or low amount is fine. I don't know if dogs get slow burning energy necessarily the same s humans, but I have seen them used to keep weight on a dog. 

As far as potatoes, I don't like them. I don't like the starch. Lead don't bother me as much because they are watery so it's easier to digest and get nutrients from. I just see veggies and fruits as more digestible than grains. 

As far as the ash I can't find the level right now, but it's understandable to me because fish are smaller and have lots of little bones all throughout their body versus a chicken or cow that doesn't have to be a bone heavy meal.


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## 6Goldens (Aug 3, 2012)

The original Purdue bloat study was fully disclosed and debunked. The details of this study are not available. Ok, if fat is in the first four ingredients, bloat risk increases. I can take two foods with the exact same macro percentages but Food A will have two or three named meat meals which push fat out of the first four but Food B has only one named meat meal so fat is in the first four. I feed dry citric acid containing kibble and bloat risk does not increase. How much water did the dog drink and when did he drink it after consuming dry kibble? How much citric acid was in the various kibbles included in the study? Were double-blind placebo trials conducted to isolate the effect of citric acid? Did the study consider the fact that most likely a larger percentage of big, bloat prone dogs eat from elevated bowls? Is this why they saw more bloat in dogs that ate from elevated bowls? Correlation does not equal causation. The Purdue study was useful in developing hypotheses, but did not prove anything, at least not to me.


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## SaharaNight Boxers (Jun 28, 2011)

Have you ever seen this?

Purdue Bloat Study | GREATDANELADY.COM

I think you would agree with what she says about it. I do too, but I also have some belief in the Purdue study.


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## DaViking (Sep 27, 2011)

SaharaNight Boxers said:


> As far as the fish in 6Fish it has to be 80% as that's what they entail. As far as I know they can't lie about that. It's supposed to be 80% meat to 20% other.


While on fish... Hook, line and sinker SaharaNight. 80% + 25% + ~10% = 115%; What? They are playing you with words. I still think 6Fish is a good alternative so I stayed away on purpose from taking jabs at it, or the the company.

What sugar? It's not a probiotic, it's part bacteria feed. I don't think you will find many nutritionists that would use alfalfa instead of beet pulp as main source of dietary fiber.


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## 6Goldens (Aug 3, 2012)

SaharaNight Boxers said:


> Have you ever seen this?
> 
> Purdue Bloat Study | GREATDANELADY.COM
> 
> I think you would agree with what she says about it. I do too, but I also have some belief in the Purdue study.


Yes, I agree it is an interesting observational study which proves absolutely nothing about what causes bloat.


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## SaharaNight Boxers (Jun 28, 2011)

DaViking said:


> While on fish... Hook, line and sinker SaharaNight. 80% + 25% + ~10% = 115%; What? They are playing you with words. I still think 6Fish is a good alternative so I stayed away on purpose from taking jabs at it, or the the company.
> 
> What sugar? It's not a probiotic, it's part bacteria feed. I don't think you will find many nutritionists that would use alfalfa instead of beet pulp as main source of dietary fiber.


Ok I don't get the top part, but good pun. I'm not used to seeing percentages can you explain?


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## DaViking (Sep 27, 2011)

SaharaNight Boxers said:


> Ok I don't get the top part, but good pun. I'm not used to seeing percentages can you explain?


If 25% is carbohydrates and 10% is other, how can it contain 80% pure meat? They are playing you with words. You can twist and turn anything into a good marketable angle.


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## SaharaNight Boxers (Jun 28, 2011)

6Goldens said:


> Yes, I agree it is an interesting observational study which proves absolutely nothing about what causes bloat.


I'd still rather not prove or disprove anything with my dog.


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## SaharaNight Boxers (Jun 28, 2011)

DaViking said:


> If 25% is carbohydrates and 10% is other, how can it contain 80% pure meat? They are playing you with words. You can twist and turn anything into a good marketable angle.


Ok, but couldn't it be 80% meat, 10% veggies ad fruits, 10% other? Definitely not going for a debate, I just really don't know much about the percentages.


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## DaViking (Sep 27, 2011)

SaharaNight Boxers said:


> Ok, but couldn't it be 80% meat, 10% veggies ad fruits, 10% other? Definitely not going for a debate, I just really don't know much about the percentages.


According to their website 6Fish contains 25% carbohydrates. Remove the water and remove the ash and you no longer have 80%


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## SaharaNight Boxers (Jun 28, 2011)

DaViking said:


> According to their website 6Fish contains 25% carbohydrates


Ok I see the problem now. 25% of the formula is carbs so the meat portion would top out at 75%? Well, there goes another kibble...


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## DaViking (Sep 27, 2011)

SaharaNight Boxers said:


> Ok I see the problem now. 25% of the formula is carbs so the meat portion would top out at 75%? Well, there goes another kibble...


even lower, don't throw it out, it's still a very good food.


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## SaharaNight Boxers (Jun 28, 2011)

DaViking said:


> even lower, don't throw it out, it's still a very good food.


True, I'm just not a fan of false advertising.


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## 6Goldens (Aug 3, 2012)

SaharaNight Boxers said:


> True, I'm just not a fan of false advertising.


I don't consider this false advertising or even unscrupulous marketing. It is no different than showing a named meat vs a named meat meal on the ingredients list. Champion is proud of the fact they add a substantial portion of their animal/fish protein in the form of fresh, unfrozen product. Some people want that even though they recognize that fresh meat is 80% water. You can't add/subtract before processing and after processing percentages.


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## SaharaNight Boxers (Jun 28, 2011)

I guess I was looking at it before cooking. There obviously is still a lot of meat though as shown by the protein level. But just looking at the packaging you are mislead to me.


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## DaViking (Sep 27, 2011)

SaharaNight Boxers said:


> True, I'm just not a fan of false advertising.


Tough crowd. Everyone want to look their best. Some pile it on and are more effective than others.


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## DaViking (Sep 27, 2011)

6Goldens said:


> You can't add/subtract before processing and after processing percentages.


But knowing a few other key numbers (where in the order it is) you can stipulate meaningfully so the balance makes sense in relation to the other numbers. Individual weights are secondary. Without it it's hard to compare it to something without any wet weight.


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## kaliberknl (May 9, 2012)

Orijen bags do not say "animal meat" but rather "80% premium animal ingredients" - misleading only if you are not reading critically.


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## KittyKat (Feb 11, 2011)

DaViking said:


> Tough crowd. Everyone want to look their best. Some pile it on and are more effective than others.


It really *is* a tough market. When you have Beniful commercials showing fresh veggies falling down and other companies like Purina throwing money at dog shows and Hil's with the vets in their pocket... you gotta make plays where you can. Some people buy them, and others don't.


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