# Nervous Dog



## Roxy (Jan 19, 2011)

I need tips for an extremly nervous dog with a dominant streak.

She is a rescue who I got at around 3 months old, she was absolutly terrified of people (would pee when you approach), dog, objects, sounds... everything....

I have socialized her everyday, excersice her everyday, try to bring her everywhere with me, expose her to as much as possible and yet we are making very little progress. I recently had a trainer who specializes in fear, fear aggression and pathalogical shyness come work with us for a bit. She did a couple of sessions then suggested that she takes the dog for a couple of days and work to de-sensitize all day every day... she called me after the second day to say that she has never seen a case this bad (she works with shelters and rescues) and that she didn't feel there was much she could do.

She barks when she's nervous or over-stimulated... I've tried correcting it, I've tried ignoring it... neither work. She gets dog aggressive when she is over-stimulated... she is GREAT with people she knows but is still terrified of strangers. 

I've put a vest on her saying "in training, please ignore" and brought her in public places... she reacts even if no one is giving her attention to her or looking at her. She now also barks if I pay attention to one of my other dogs as an attention grab. Everytime she is jealous or wants attention she barks and runs in circles...

her behavior is getting VERY hard to deal with, I feel like I've spent SO much time and effort and am not getting anywhere. Any suggestions?

Also, When she freaks out I never praise it by giving her attention or using a baby voice. 
I bike with her, which is the only time she isn't reactive to her environment
She is a 9 months old mix but there is a lot of sheltie (or collie?) in her

lastly, she is the biggest suck and the most willing to please/obedient dog I have ever seen in my life. i do a lot of agility (not with other dogs because she won't) and off leash work with her and all she wants to do is please.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

You have to understand that what you have is not a training problem. It is a behavior problem. You have a damaged dog and repair will be a long slow process if it's even possible. I don't know if this is a genetic problem or one that she aquired before you got her. If it's genetic, you won't be able to help her.

I would try to socialize her in a very slow step by step method. Don't put her in crowds or near individual people. Start her off a good distance from anyone. A distance where she can see a person or a few people but is still relatively comfortable. Start giving her treats. VERY VERY slowly work your way closer, all the time still giving teats and praising good behavior. Pause your movement toward people and let her relax. Praise and treat. If at anytime during this she starts acting the least bit aggitated, move her back further away and begin the process all over again.

Gradually over time get her to be comfortable with one or two people very close the work on larger and larger groups SLOWLY. This is going to be a months or even years long process. She must learn that people being close to her means good things happen. (treats and praise)

Google "desensitization and conterconditioning". You will find tons of help there.


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

I have had some success with teaching a watch command. When the dog gets into an overstimulating enviornment I can tell them to watch and it refocuses them on me or the owner, thereby calming them. But do avoid flooding her. If she has sheltie in her she may always be very skittish and a one person dog. I have seen well bred, well raised shelties who are still pretty standoffish and can't stand too much going on.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

How is she getting her meals?

Maybe give this a shot:

http://www.dogscouts.org/Protocol_for_relaxation.html


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## Roxy (Jan 19, 2011)

Tom- I have tried watching people from a distance with her and slowly getting closer. The progress was limited and VERY slow but I will probably try it again. I didn't realize this could take SO long. Seeing as we saw progress with that, I will start doing it again. While I have googled the heck out of desensitizing I have not tried counterconditioning and will try that...
I KNOW where she came from, it was a backyard breeder who had 13 puppies that were drinking out of an oil pan and lived in 3 inches of their own feces. They were treated *very* roughly and not at all socialized. I ended up with her because the guy came into the store I work at saying that he needed them out... I went with a few friends, we left with a lot of the puppies, socialized them, cleaned them up and found homes for them... expect for mine who I obviously couldn't/wouldn't place. I'm still in contact with most of the owners... the dogs are all amazing, happy go lucky dogs. They are also all between 70-80lbs, Shiloh is about 45. None of them were as nervous as she was and all of them were acting like normal puppies within a couple of days. How do I know if this is genetic? Is there a time when I should just throw my arms up and call it quits? 

Liz- She knows the watch command but when she goes into her "panic mode" any command is completly irrelevant. Shelties, I know are a bit on the reserved side. Not being interested in people or other dogs, I can deal with. It's the spining/barking, working herself into such a frenzie even if it's just someone I stop to talk to during a walk. She works herself up so badly that she has even released her anal glands... on 3 different occasions =( I can't even imagine what goes on in her head... 

Nathalie- I'm not sure what you mean =P she gets her meals either in a bowl or outside depending on what she's eating. If it's in a bowl inside the 4 dogs have to sit and wait while I place the bowls and then one by one I'll send them to their dishes. Outside I'll drop whatever they are eating infront of them and let them run off and find a comfortable place to chow down. One thing I have noticed and it may be irrelevant, is when I feed her a meal that takes her longer to go through (ex: turkey wing) she is a bit more relaxed/less reactive afterwards. That website looks really good, I browsed through it quickly but I noticced that ALOT of their tasks involve things that really are triggers for her. The door, expecially at work is something that sends her off the handle bars. Loosing sight of me anywhere but at home (store, forest, friends house) sends her into a yelping/running around frenzie... that website seems to address those two major issues so thats amazing 

It's a good thing I have nothing to do all day but work with her, hehe ;o) can't complain, she's well worth it!
Thanks for the replies  sorry for the length of this one!
BTW- would anybody ever recommend medication for this? thanks


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

You might try a thundershirt when you work with her - I have heard good things about it. She sounds highly stressed and this might help. Have you tries something like Rescue Remedy? Something has to take the edge off so she can think. The spinning sounds very much sheltie or at least herding breed. If she is pretty much always high stress you might also integrate massage or Tellington Touch type of body work. It does sound more genetic if all the others are doing well or at least that she has a very sensitive system. I would work only one one thing at a time until she is totally comfortable. I will go back through my training info and see if anything else can be found.


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## monkeys23 (Dec 8, 2010)

I think a thundershirt and some Rescue Remedy are a great idea to try.

I got Scout a DAP diffuser that is next to her kennel and for that first month she was also wearing a DAP collar... I got them for her because my upstairs neighbors were having horrible violent domestic disputes and it was freaking the dogs (Scout especially because she's sensitive and had a rough start similar to your dog).... it seemed ot really help Scout cope with the unpleasant neighbor situation.

She's nowhere near as bad as your dog, but she will always be a little skittish acting in certain situations. A very large part of it was the hoarding situation she was in the first three months of her life, another part is due to previous owners inadvertantly reinforcing the skittish behaviors while she was growing up and going through normal puppy fear stages and trying to overcome the awful imprinting of the situation she was born into, and lastly I do think part of it is genetic as well. She's a really good dog despite it all, but again she's not as severe a case as your dog.

We've also done desensitizing/confidence building using clicker training and agility equipment. That seemed to really help her.
She can get very over stimulated with excitement around other dogs, so we've done a lot of focus work (again with the clicker) to get her focused on me and not the environment stimulus around us.


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

Roxy said:


> Tom- I have tried watching people from a distance with her and slowly getting closer. The progress was limited and VERY slow but I will probably try it again. I didn't realize this could take SO long.


Actually it's Bill but nbd. :smile: This is a very slow process and you get more and more tempted to move too fast. That is the downfall of most people who use this method. The goal is to decrease the distance between you and other WITHOUT the dog loosing control. You don't push him until he looses it. You try to move closer without upsetting him. Once he gets upset, you loose ground. It's not easy. You need to learn to recognize signs that he is getting too excited and relax some and let him regain his composure.



> They are also all between 70-80lbs, Shiloh is about 45. None of them were as nervous as she was and all of them were acting like normal puppies within a couple of days. How do I know if this is genetic?


I'm sorry to say this paragraph makes it look genetic. The fact that she is so much worse than her sibblings.



> Is there a time when I should just throw my arms up and call it quits?


Only when you just can't take it anymore. When you throw up your arms and call it quits is when its time to put her to sleep. In her present state, the way you describe it, she can be a very dangerous dog. You may thing she isn't now but she can get that way.


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## Maxy24 (Mar 5, 2011)

My dog Tucker, who is very fearful of strangers, was getting to the point of reacting to strangers who spoke to me from a distance on our walks. The best thing I've done for him is stop letting people try to interact with him. He has learned that just because someone comes up to us and talks to me does not mean they are going to try and touch him. Now he still will go off sometimes if they turn their attention to him, but that's also improving as he's learning just because they look at or talk to him does not mean they are going to try and touch him. I used to say they couldn't pet him but they could give him treats but I don't allow anything anymore and it's working wonders at making him be less on edge.


He's made much more progress in the house though because I can be very specific with guests. I tell them right off the bat "ignore the dog. Don't make eye contact, don't smile at him, don't talk to him, don't hold and hand out for him to sniff, and don't try to touch him, pretend he's not even there". I leash Tucker, people come in, Tucker goes insane, I remove (drag as gently as possible) Tucker from the room to the back hallway where he can't see the person and wait until he can focus on me a little then bring him back out. If he barks again we repeat. Usually after three removals he stops barking and will start to investigate the person. If the person starts to show interest in Tucker (because Tucker will come right up and sniff, even put his front paws on them) I quickly tell them to just ignore him. Because if they do look at him he goes into a barking frenzy again, he willingly places himself way over threshold. But by doing this Tucker is usually fine with them being in the house within 15 minutes and lets them pet him after an hour or so. Now I don't think Tucker is as bad as your dog simply because Tucker REALLY want to make friends with people (he'll drag me over to strangers in the park), he just doesn't trust them AT ALL (after he's dragged me to them they say hi to him and he starts barking and snarling). 

So my tips for you are to let the dog set the pace. If he flips out just drag him away from the trigger (not angrily) and try not to get that close again. If he wears a prong or choke chain I suggest you switch to something else because dragging a dog on one of these is not a good idea. In fact I'd suggest a harness so there is not choking or slipping out of the collar. I know for Tucker the best thing to do was not to act like I'm trying to get him to do anything. Don't encourage him, don't kneel down to his level, don't even talk to him because these things, in his mind, were all precursers to someone trying to touch him. Just pretend you don't notice him sniffing the air towards the stranger or being polite. I will drop treats on the ground in front of him that he can pick up when he wants (he didn't like that when I handed them to him he had to turn to take them and loose sight of the stranger) as a reward for staying quiet.


But every dog's fear is different. You'll need to find a starting place. Can he walk by someone on the street without going off? Can that person smile at you, wave? Can they say hi? How about on the same side of the street? Can a person run by? Start at the most he CAN handle and work from there. Carry GOOD treats (people food, I use lunch meats) on walks and, if he can handle waiving, smiling, saying hi, etc. from across the street, try to illicit people to do that. If you wave and say hi to someone they will most likely do it back. Once they do, slip the dog a treat and keep going. After many days of that move to the middle of the road. Don't stop walking when you say hi as that is harder for the dog (more likely there will be interaction in the dog's mind) and will come later, perhaps back on the other side of the road. Try to avoid situations where you know he'll bark. I don't give any commands to Tucker as he will get more stressed by having to give me attention but I will reward for sitting with treats.

I guess my main message is don't push. Find out his triggers and avoid them, then work up to them VERY slowly.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

What I mean by getting her meals is that she needs to work for them. Food is usually the number one resource to a dog other than attention from their owner. 

If you can make her really think and work for her food it will increase her confidence and your bond together. It's hard to really cut up raw meaty bones for small "treat" sized pieces but you can with boneless meats. Make her work for every morsel of food. Ask for sits, downs, waits, touches, etc. Teach her new cues and tricks with her food.

It's amazing the difference in a dogs behavior if you control their food. It's usually the first thing that I go over with training clients.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

i also have a puppy mill pug who is very damaged...although we've made some very nice progress in two years...

his is not the saddest story on the planet

but when i look into those pug eyes and he's trying so hard to please but doesn't quite know how and is too scared....

i had to teach myself to not let his story interfere.....and take over...or recovery would never have a chance to take root.


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## CavePaws (Jan 25, 2011)

RawFedDogs said:


> You have to understand that what you have is not a training problem. It is a behavior problem. You have a damaged dog and repair will be a long slow process if it's even possible. I don't know if this is a genetic problem or one that she aquired before you got her. If it's genetic, you won't be able to help her.
> 
> I would try to socialize her in a very slow step by step method. Don't put her in crowds or near individual people. Start her off a good distance from anyone. A distance where she can see a person or a few people but is still relatively comfortable. Start giving her treats. VERY VERY slowly work your way closer, all the time still giving teats and praising good behavior. Pause your movement toward people and let her relax. Praise and treat. If at anytime during this she starts acting the least bit aggitated, move her back further away and begin the process all over again.
> 
> ...


I agree largely with what Bill has said. The ONLY thing I disagree on is that if it is genetic you won't be able to help her. My dog is an example of this. Indi was feral, I found her, she has extreme pack instincts and possesive tendencies, not to mention she tries to act dominant. I call her an alpha wanabe because the perfect example of a truly dominant dog is one who does not resort to lashing out. Now here is the thing, working with a behavior problem can take months or it can take many, many years. You will see progress. At some point you may hit a plateau and may not be able to get much farther in re-wiring the brain without medication which is a crap shoot at best as far as I'm concerned. All I can say is DO NOT PUSH THIS. Go very slow. You do not want her to repeat these aggressive behaviors over and over again. If it's genetic it's an upstream battle and you've got a twig to paddle with. But it can be done, you'll get up that stream slowly if you go at your own dogs pace. Consult a behaviorist, they should be able to give you great advice on how to go about desensitizing your dog yourself. You can do it, it takes tons of persistence and patience. I'll let you know at times you cannot cure a truly aggressive dog with positive reinforcement. I'm not willing to step over the line of reason to shock my dog with an electric collar to stop this and I hope you aren't either. Just remember things like shock collars, choke chains; they are all crutches and only scare the dog into not wanting to move or react. I'd say your best bet is to pay tons of attention to the body language of your dog and to be pro-active about redirecting before your dog gets to the point of lifting it's lips. I'd work on natural calming signals. Like teaching your dog to lip it's licks, turn it's head, and sniff the ground. DO NOT train the growl out of your dog by punishing them for growling. Let there be warnings but only _correct _for flat out lunging. If you can catch the hard stare before the growl begins it will be much easier to redirect. My dog Indi has some of the worst genetic temperamental characteristics I've ever come across. She goes from 1-10 in a split second. I must be so diligent about her. And like Bill says, you can't always do much with dogs as bad as mine. She'll never be a dog park dog or even a friendly dog towards other dogs. All I expect is for her to be civil and that's a lot for her. If it's not genetically related it could be a number of other issues causing it and that is why my best suggestion is to consult a behaviorist.


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## RubyandStewiesmom (Jul 12, 2011)

I completely am in the same situation that you are...I have a 2 year old bulldog/pit mix, and he is nearly the same...although not quite as extreme. He is a growler, hair stands on end, barker, you name it! He is also a nervous tinkler! I'm not a big fan of genetic...but I do believe Stewie being a Bulldog/Pit mix I got off craigslist is definitely the reason! LOL...poorly bred dogs are a bit more work...but I knew this getting Stu.
We started fresh with Stewie about 1 month ago and progress is SLOW...but I expect it to take a VERY long time! Basically I pretended like I had NEVER trained Stu before. I pretend that I just got him and we re-enrolled in a training class with a great trainer. We are building confidence, and spending time sitting outside a dog park watching how happy and confident dogs behave. We are bonding by using the NILIF method (Nothing in Life is Free), and I've been training him to do agility with the help of a VERY qualified trainer. I honestly would question a trainer who after a couple of days gave up...I believe a trainer should be willing to see ANY dog to the end of a training time.
Stewie I am HOPING will be much better in a year or so. I did just order a Thundershirt and we have been using Rescue Remedy. 
We have been working Stewie hard...and I am just setting SMALL goals for us to obtain. I am hoping by fall he is very comfortable sitting on a blanket with me outside the dog park. I'm hoping that the barking at our neighbors and people outside and at the door will stop by Christmas, well at least be under control.
I think just start from square one, pretend you JUST got her, and start fresh. We even bought stu a new crate, new toys, and new rewards...totally fresh! We also discovered he LOVES swimming...so swimming and training by the local lake is a big confidence booster for him!
Good luck and keep us updated!


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## DoglovingSenior (Jun 26, 2011)

I had a little Rottie Rescue - when I went to the Rescue she surprisingly came over to me-I lifted my hand a bit to pat her & she hit the ground (lesson learned for me). I took her & promised her that no one would ever hurt her again, that I would keep her safe. She was not afraid of any animal with 4 legs and a tail/nub. She later adopted a Rescue male puppy that weighed almost as much as she and he was only at 4 1/2 mths. I did not want him as I was still mourning my heart dog & we had adopted her before I knew that he had cancer & I knew that she was going to require so much of my time. I tried everything. She was not dog aggressive but would finish something if one snapped or challenged her. She went through all of the Rottie Rituals when meeting another dog. It was people that she was SO afraid of. When she came to me her crate was her safe place and I left the door open and tried getting her out of it. I would put her food bowl where she had to take a few steps out etc. When she finally got to the place that she wouldn't bark at visitors, she would go into the farthest corner of the room - while the other 2 greeted guests. I told them to totally ignore her-eventually she learned to come over & sniff. I was so pleased the day that she didn't hide in the corner. In her obedience class she made the highest score but when the judge crackled her certificate-she took off the last time that I didn't hold her leash tightly.

She was so fast_I would make a sweeping gesture with my arm & she would race around the yard in a complete oval from one side to the other. I got the brilliant idea to put her in agility-She loved it and was so good. But when I made the sweeping gesture too close one day she hit the ground. To end this she began to get very protective of me-a friend bent down in the vets office to tell me that her dog was pregnant and my girl knocked her glasses off her face. She always had to be muzzled at the vets'. She was was SO sweet to me-I could not imagine any scenario where she would bite me. I had special trainers work with her as I thought that maybe I was doing something wrong & I did change some of my behaviors. For instance a friend once said that my little girl "gets away with so much-I've never heard you give the other 2 command more than once"

She was so frightened at the vets that I would sedate her & never left her side & used a muzzle & treats. I once said that if she ever got really ill I would have to put her down as any treatment would paralyze her with fear. 

One morning, years later I called the dogs in from outside as I was going to work, she bounced in the door & fell out. It reminded me so of the time that my heart dog collapsed-I called a friend who helped me to put her in the car & raced to the vets. She was still "loopy" but I had to muzzle her - the more that she awakened. My vet was not there & I saw another. He concluded from the test results, the appearance of her gums that she was bleeding somewhere. I looked at the results and said "hermangio sarcoma". He agreed that was a good possibility. I didn't hesitate but a moment-I said "put her down, if I take her home I might not be able to bring her back" I took off her muzzle & she licked my hand they helped me get her to the floor into my lap and I told her how VERY much I loved her-she liked to be my pillow sometimes. I told her what a wonderful gir she was & how much I would miss her but she was going to be with her 2 best friends and I let her go. She was about 2 when I rescued her and went to the bridge 8 years later. She had come a long way from the little dog that I first saw. She had learned how to play with toys, her favorit being a tire that she rolled around the yard-she was so small that I got one that was used on riding mowers-she loved it. She enjoyed outsmarting the males - when one was in his crate in my office with a toy that she wanted she would just come over to me and try to get my attention-if I played along and patted her the male would leave his crate & the toy & she would dash to it, take the toy & run. She learned that she didn't have to hide food under the rugs, or behind the draperies. She didn't hide in a corner when there were guests & didn't jump at anyone again-I had learned to keep my distance from others & not to let her think that I was threatened. She no longer thought of the crate as her only safe place & had to be bribed to go inside. She loved the beach & would walk by my side until I said "ok" then would fly off to try to catch the birds without getting her feet wet <lol> She could even ride in an elevatorShe learned how to love. I did not regret one minute of the time that I spent with her, I only regretted that I couldn't make her completely whole. But, I kept her safe 'til the end and though she never trialed in anything, I think that she was happy. Please excuse the length of this. Don't give up on your girl just yet.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

that is love.


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## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

magicre said:


> that is love.


Yeah I agree - must admit I kindof had a little sniffle.


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