# Scared of Raw!



## chewice (Jan 1, 2012)

okay okay okay,

I am a research wh***.... and I need to know everything about a subject before I proceed with it.

I have found TONS of sites with why its awesome... but i haven't found anything that tells me exactly what I need to feed...carbs... veggies... all of that stuff! 

I would just love a table of week one...feed this...week two...feed this...

Also, where does everyone go to get meat? Just the local butcher?


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Here's what you need - a site with step by step instructions for prey model raw:
How to Get Started | Prey Model Raw

Folks who feed prey model raw do not believe dogs needs carbs. If you want something with veggies, there is a BARF section here also.

People get meat all over the place - butchers, the grocery store, some join co-ops or get it from craigslist for free. There are companies that sell grass-raised food just for pets. At least one person has a license to get meat from a slaughterhouse, i think. Some even raise and kill their own animals. There is lots of information here.


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## tem_sat (Jun 20, 2010)

chewice said:


> okay okay okay,
> 
> I am a research wh***.... and I need to know everything about a subject before I proceed with it.
> 
> ...


Hi and welcome.

First of all, please read this carefully: How to Get Started | Prey Model Raw

No carbs are needed. Start with chicken backs or quarters.

If you let us know what part of the country you are from, we can probably help you in locating co-ops or meat distributors.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

tem_sat said:


> Hi and welcome.
> 
> First of all, please read this carefully: How to Get Started | Prey Model Raw
> 
> ...


and, after you're done reading, go and get chicken backs, remove the kidneys, those little red things in the back...feed 2% of the ideal weight...and if you want...we'll help you figure that out...and that's what you'll do for the first few weeks...

then we'll help you through the next part and the next part until you're all confident and 'lookie what i did'.....just remember, we've all been where you are now.


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## chewice (Jan 1, 2012)

Im from calgary, alberta... so im looking up farm butchers right now. 

I know there's an awesome store that has ALL raw... but i'm on a budget and think they might jack up the price. Any advice for a beginner is great!


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

How big is your dog?

ETA: there are lots of folks from Canada here. they can probably give you tips on where to buy meat up there.


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## chewice (Jan 1, 2012)

He is 30 lbs, all leg, high energy, 11 months.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

So if he's got a high metabolism you might end up needing to feed him 1-1.5 pounds per day but you'll start out at less than a pound and see how much you really need to feed him. 

i would check out the store - it might also be if they have raw food for people they'll have scraps for alot less, or organs etc.


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## Mondo (Dec 20, 2011)

Calgary seems to be a lot better than Edmonton, yet I'm having some luck here. I've found necks, backs and pre-made raw (which I no longer buy) in a pet food store here, found a butcher for similar, and a specialty farm that delivers once a month, with a huge variety of meats.

Try googling: calgary raw dog food 

I got a few hits. Back to basics looks pretty good, some decent prices on some items. 

I was scared too, funny in retrospect. Actually I was worried that my one dog who had a few teeth removed couldn't eat bones. He's doing fine, not as good as the one with all his teeth, but he loves chicken necks and backs and turkey necks. Raw meats of any kind, and organ meats -- loves 'em all. For fish I've only given them canned sardines and canned salmon. Big hits. Funny I used to get them canned fish dogfood (premium stuff, but they didn't like it much, one tolerated it and the other walked away ..., but human grade canned fish? All over it.

Superstore has frozen chicken thighs, 2kg for 9.99. That's a pretty meaty cut. My boys are both in the 20 pound range.


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## chewice (Jan 1, 2012)

When starting... on the web page you gave me, does the 3 and 4 week mean that you keep the chicken and add a turkey neck in, or do i change protein source all together?


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## chewice (Jan 1, 2012)

another dumb question... but what does a pound of meat look like.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

chewice said:


> When starting... on the web page you gave me, does the 3 and 4 week mean that you keep the chicken and add a turkey neck in, or do i change protein source all together?


No, you continue with the chicken as you add the turkey. the goal is to be able to feed all sorts of proteins so you don't feed just one at a time.

However, I wouldn't even think about that now. It's really simple to think I just gotta buy some chicken backs. And that's it. Give it to your dog. And do that for a couple of weeks.


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## swolek (Mar 31, 2011)

chewice said:


> another dumb question... but what does a pound of meat look like.


I usually look at the total weight printed on the package, count how many pieces of meat there are, and divide to get the average weight per piece . After a while you won't need to...you'll probably be able to estimate.

If it puts your mind at ease, invest in a scale.


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## tem_sat (Jun 20, 2010)

chewice said:


> another dumb question... but what does a pound of meat look like.


Approximately like 1 chicken leg quarter.


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## doggoblin (Jun 6, 2011)

chewice said:


> but i haven't found anything that tells me exactly what I need to feed...carbs... veggies... all of that stuff!


I would recommend you look at http://orijen.ca/downloads/ORIJEN_White_Paper.pdf . It explains why veggies and carbs are not needed.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

I would definitely get a scale. i know alot of folks "eyeball" their amounts but I still weigh - for one thing, one of my dogs gets around four ounces and if I'm off by half an once it effects her weight. 

You can get a cheap one for around $10. 

If you start your dog on raw at 2 percent of his weight that's about 10 ounces per day. You will need to weigh that - then, you'll probably end up raising the amount but you start of at less food to make sure you don't overfeed.


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## Mondo (Dec 20, 2011)

Yes, get a scale. We have 2, my wife has been on Weightwatchers in the past, and the scale was essential for that. Nowadays I use it for the boys, but also for us if we buy in bulk. Divvy up ground beef, or chicken breasts, etc.


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## ciaBrysh (Dec 16, 2011)

I just started the raw diet not too long ago so I know how you feel! This is a step by step as to what I did to get started.
1. Buy a chest freezer (I found one cheap on craigslist)
2. Post an ad on CL wanting meat.
3. I bought 30 lbs chicken backs, 30 lbs quarters, 30 lbs turkey necks (the only way my supplier would sell them to me) 
also buy a meat scale!! I bought this one Oneida Digital Kitchen Scale - Walmart.com and love it.

I followed the PMR site to a t since Raj has such a sensitive stomach, so I fed strictly chicken backs for 3 days after fasting for 24 hrs. I then added in quarters alternating with backs for seven days until firm. 

As I said, I follow the PMR site as best as I can so if you aren't comfortable you should too!

(and try not too worry! It's natural for them!  )


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## trikerdon (May 14, 2011)

I came across this site that you might want to take a look at. Seems to be a good one.....

The Many Myths of Raw Feeding


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## chewice (Jan 1, 2012)

So I bought a bunch of chicken backs... with the drumstick still attached.

One of the backs is about 0.6 ...so its perfect for the day. The question I have ... is later can i feed him the drumsticks. During the first couple weeks of chicken, can I incorporate that in. 

Probably such a newb question.


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## tem_sat (Jun 20, 2010)

chewice said:


> So I bought a bunch of chicken backs... with the drumstick still attached.
> 
> One of the backs is about 0.6 ...so its perfect for the day. The question I have ... is later can i feed him the drumsticks. During the first couple weeks of chicken, can I incorporate that in.
> 
> Probably such a newb question.


Wild guess...what I bet you bought were chicken quarters? Correct me if I am wrong but, I have yet to see how a drumstick can be attached to a back without the thigh...

Anyway, whatever you purchased, that is FINE to feed! Just figure approximately 2% of your dog's estimated adult weight and feed that amount per day. Keep an eye on his body shape and adjust accordingly. Purchase a cheapie scale at the grocery store, if possible. Do not hesitate to let us know how it goes.

ETA: Definitely keep any and all trimmings in a container and freeze those. No need to let anything go to waste.


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## chewice (Jan 1, 2012)

I think what i purchased is half a back with the thigh and drumstick... 

what is the difference between just chicken backs, and quarters. Just the amount of meat vs bone? I cut the back (with ribs) apart from the "thigh" then the drumstick. So i should be fine! We are finishing our bag of kibble first, so time to stock up!


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## tem_sat (Jun 20, 2010)

chewice said:


> I think what i purchased is half a back with the thigh and drumstick...
> 
> what is the difference between just chicken backs, and quarters. Just the amount of meat vs bone? I cut the back (with ribs) apart from the "thigh" then the drumstick. So i should be fine! We are finishing our bag of kibble first, so time to stock up!


For example, when I buy a whole chicken I will cut the back out and save that for my Doxie and cook the rest for me. The chicken will end up consisting of: 2 drumsticks, 2 wings, 2 thighs and 2 breasts. There is more bone in a chicken back as opposed to a chicken quarter, however, that is fine for now! Not to worry!

See the attached pics for chicken backs vs. chicken quarters.


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## chewice (Jan 1, 2012)

...i know...such a worried mommy.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

I can't buy just chicken backs so I buy quarters and you are correct there is half a back there. Which is probably good for a smaller dog.


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## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

To be honest, I didn't buy backs. Both of my guys at 8 weeks old and 7 1/2 years old were started on chicken quarters. There IS enough bone there to keep them from getting cannon butt too badly. I definitely would have gone and found backs had their cannon butt been bad but it wasn't. 

I would also definitely get a scale. Some meat is so much more dense than others that, for me, eyeballing it just doesn't cut it because of the potential weight difference in two identically sized pieces of meat from two different species.

Really, it is all VERY simple once you get started. Don't feed weight bearing bones of large ungulates like cattle, elk, bison, moose, etc. Don't forget to feed organs. Make sure to watch their poo to make sure they are getting the right amount of bone (I will never forget the first time I fed too much bone and watched my pup pass dusty poo. When they say it will be dusty... they do mean literally!). It's really all common sense stuff that will become second nature to you over time. You will make mistakes but we all did too. You just can't let it discourage you. If your dog doesn't seem to be doing well on raw, then you are probably doing something wrong. It happens. We have all been through it. Ask your question here and you will get numerous answers to go by. Honestly though... you can pretty much bet that Natalie (DaneMama) will always have the answer. Hahaha.

We are an obnoxious bunch on occasion but we all really do care. Welcome to the world of raw feeding!


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Dude and Bucks Mamma said:


> (I will never forget the first time I fed too much bone and watched my pup pass dusty poo. When they say it will be dusty... they do mean literally!).


Like sand from the hourglass! When it happened to Rebel, I was horrified and fascinated at the same time.


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## chewice (Jan 1, 2012)

So a half of back in the morn and a half at night wont be bad for my pup! 

Also... I have a huge bag of shrimp that has been sitting in my freezer from an old roomie... can i pawn it off to the dog since i refuse to even look at them?


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

chewice said:


> So a half of back in the morn and a half at night wont be bad for my pup!
> 
> Also... I have a huge bag of shrimp that has been sitting in my freezer from an old roomie... can i pawn it off to the dog since i refuse to even look at them?


I have no idea - I've not heard of people feeding shellfish. Seems like they would be ok except they are too expensive normally to buy for dog food. But don't take my word on that.


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## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

xellil said:


> Like sand from the hourglass! When it happened to Rebel, I was horrified and fascinated at the same time.


I was too. I couldn't take my eyes off of him but I was disgusted at the same time. Hahahahaha!



chewice said:


> So a half of back in the morn and a half at night wont be bad for my pup!
> 
> Also... I have a huge bag of shrimp that has been sitting in my freezer from an old roomie... can i pawn it off to the dog since i refuse to even look at them?


From what I have heard, dogs tend to have a higher chance of allergies to shellfish. I know that Abi (Scarlett'O) figured out her border collie, Rhett, is ok with shellfish by accident when he got into the shrimp she was getting ready to make for the human dinner. She doesn't know about her other dogs because they they didn't get any of the shrimp Rhett got into.

I don't know about my dogs and if anyone else can chime in here, I think there are a few of us, at least, who would like to know the answer about shrimp... Natalie?


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

most frozen shrimp, unless marked....it usually farmed and offer no nutritional value for you or your dog...

having said that, one or two won't hurt your dog, but i wouldn't consider them for several months...they need to adapt to the basics of raw first...

start with backs.....stay the course for a week or so.....and see how your dog does. you'll know by the poop whether or not to add meat...

we started with backs....because we started with quarters first...and thighs...and they were overfed and had cannon butt....shame on the person who advised me first.....what did i know.

and then i came here...and went to backs and all was well....

i still weigh their food, because i have light weight dogs who gain weight easily who don't get a lot of exercise.....so even a 1/2 ounce extra a day will put weight on mine...one being a pug and one being and old girl...


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

You've gotten great advice, so follow it and you will be fine.

Raw can be a bit intimidating at first but once you find the routine that works best for you it is a breeze.

You know what's really scary? 
Not knowing what you're feeding your dog.
Mystery ingredient allergens.
Recalls.
Gum disease.
Cancer.
Diabetes.
And all te other bad things that Kibble promotes.


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