# A Man of My Own Heart



## monster'sdad (Jul 29, 2012)

*"Dr. Tony Buffington, DVM, has a PhD in animal nutrition, was a resident clinical nutritionist at the Veterinary Medicine Teaching Hospital at UC Davis, and is a diplomate of the American College of Veterinary Nutrition. He has been a professor of veterinary clinical sciences at Ohio State University’s College of Veterinary Medicine since 1987.

Clearly, when it comes to pet nutrition, Dr. Buffington is your go-to guy. He also has a good sense of humor.

“If I lined up 10 dogs for you to evaluate—each with shiny teeth and coats—you couldn’t tell me which ones were fed a raw food diet and which ones ate commercially prepared food,” says Buffington with an easygoing banter. “Ask a dog show judge to tell you, based on his evaluation of those competing in Best in Show, what the dogs are eating and he’ll laugh at you."*


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## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

Seriously? Tell someone who cares.


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## Squeeji (Feb 17, 2012)

MollyWoppy said:


> Seriously? Tell someone who cares.


I thought it was interesting, and I feed both commercial diets and raw.


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## bett (Mar 15, 2012)

So i guess feeding raw is ok then, huh?


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

I could probably tell just by smelling their breath.


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## Tobi (Mar 18, 2011)

He must not have an acute sense of smell, or feel for that matter, we have other dogs around us from time to time, and it is immediately apparent what they are fed because they have an odor about them, let alone I don't want to have them breathing in my face... I feel like I have to wash my hands if I pet my mother in laws dog, greasy...


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## Jacksons Mom (Jun 13, 2010)

Tobi said:


> He must not have an acute sense of smell, or feel for that matter, we have other dogs around us from time to time, and it is immediately apparent what they are fed because they have an odor about them, let alone I don't want to have them breathing in my face... I feel like I have to wash my hands if I pet my mother in laws dog, greasy...


I used to feel this way with our Golden. God, she was horrible to pet, even after a bath... my hands would always smell afterward. And her breath was horrid. She was probably fed kibbles n bits her whole life, we didn't know any better. She was super fat too in her later years.

I will say, I dogsat for about 4 years, and I could typically tell a difference. These two Beagle mixes I watched have been fed Acana and they don't smell at all, even w/o a bath for a while. Their poop is great too. Then these two Boxers I watched were eating Science Diet and their poops were HUGE and smelly, and they always stunk too. But who really knows, it's all relative. I don't think food is solely to blame, but I always did notice differences.


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

I have no college degree. However, I work with dogs of all different breeds, ages, sizes, and dogs feed everything from the worst-of-the-worst, to the best-of-the-best, and everything in between. Perhaps not by LOOKING at them alone, but you can almost always tell a raw fed dog by feel. Almost always. I've never met a raw feeder that couldn't. Raw fed dogs and kibble fed dogs just FEEL different.


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## DaViking (Sep 27, 2011)

CorgiPaws said:


> I have no college degree. However, I work with dogs of all different breeds, ages, sizes, and dogs feed everything from the worst-of-the-worst, to the best-of-the-best, and everything in between. Perhaps not by LOOKING at them alone, but you can almost always tell a raw fed dog by feel. Almost always. I've never met a raw feeder that couldn't. Raw fed dogs and kibble fed dogs just FEEL different.


Yes, they feel more lifeless and gritty after a few days of workout. Generalization of course but what the heck, I'm in good company


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## brindle (Mar 14, 2013)

Squeeji said:


> I thought it was interesting, and I feed both commercial diets and raw.


I also found it interesting. I feed a bit of everything


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## brindle (Mar 14, 2013)

Tobi said:


> He must not have an acute sense of smell, or feel for that matter, we have other dogs around us from time to time, and it is immediately apparent what they are fed because they have an odor about them, let alone I don't want to have them breathing in my face... I feel like I have to wash my hands if I pet my mother in laws dog, greasy...


I can guarantee you that if you saw my dog in person you would swear up and down that she is raw fed. She eats 80% kibble.


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## brindle (Mar 14, 2013)

Sprocket said:


> I could probably tell just by smelling their breath.


Gee. You are really intense about it lol.


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

brindle said:


> Gee. You are really intense about it lol.


After living with the pleasant breath of raw fed dogs, it really is quite apparent how foul most commercially fed dogs are in the mouth.


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## Rvent (Apr 15, 2012)

sorry guys but you could never tell by my dogs breath they are raw fed, I over look it because at 13 they are very healthy and have as much energy as any puppy!

But I still don't get the OP point, he is always bad mouthing raw and is now saying its as good as his kibble? I am confused :wacko:


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## brindle (Mar 14, 2013)

Sprocket said:


> After living with the pleasant breath of raw fed dogs, it really is quite apparent how foul most commercially fed dogs are in the mouth.


Well I don't make out with my dogs so generally breath is not a huge issue  
My dog doesn't have bad breath and she eats kibble..? I guess she is a rarity. I also brush her teeth every week or so which may help. I don't know, nor do I care a great deal lol


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## FBarnes (Feb 17, 2013)

Interesting that this fellow is a cat expert, and his first award was given to him by Hill's. I wonder how many dog show judges he's interviewed.


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## brindle (Mar 14, 2013)

FBarnes said:


> Interesting that this fellow is a cat expert, and his first award was given to him by Hill's. I wonder how many dog show judges he's interviewed.


Yes. It's a conspiracy.


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

brindle said:


> Well I don't make out with my dogs so generally breath is not a huge issue
> My dog doesn't have bad breath and she eats kibble..? I guess she is a rarity. I also brush her teeth every week or so which may help. I don't know, nor do I care a great deal lol


As if I am "making out" with my dogs. Give me a damn break. You live with dogs, you will smell their orafices whether you want to or not. If a dog is panting in the back seat, I don't want to smell it. Thankfully I don't have to. 

It's not necessarily bad breath, but it is different and unpleasant IMO. Only a raw feeder would know the difference, however.


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## monster'sdad (Jul 29, 2012)

DaViking said:


> Yes, they feel more lifeless and gritty after a few days of workout. Generalization of course but what the heck, I'm in good company


They also suffer from hypogylcemia much more often, even after conditioning. They also tend to have weak pad leather.


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## FBarnes (Feb 17, 2013)

brindle said:


> Yes. It's a conspiracy.


NO it's not. Although it could be a collusion. Maybe it's just speaking out of one's rear end when there are no studies of show judges posted.


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## Roo (Oct 17, 2010)

> “If I lined up 10 dogs for you to evaluate—each with shiny teeth and coats—you couldn’t tell me which ones were fed a raw food diet and which ones ate commercially prepared food,” says Buffington with an easygoing banter. “Ask a dog show judge to tell you, based on his evaluation of those competing in Best in Show, what the dogs are eating and he’ll laugh at you."


I wonder how many of the dogs had regular dentals? Were given supplements for coat/skin?


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## brindle (Mar 14, 2013)

Sprocket said:


> As if I am "making out" with my dogs. Give me a damn break. You live with dogs, you will smell their orafices whether you want to or not. If a dog is panting in the back seat, I don't want to smell it. Thankfully I don't have to.
> 
> It's not necessarily bad breath, but it is different and unpleasant IMO. Only a raw feeder would know the difference, however.


I fed raw and didn't notice much of a difference :bored:


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## brindle (Mar 14, 2013)

FBarnes said:


> NO it's not. Although it could be a collusion. Maybe it's just speaking out of one's rear end when there are no studies of show judges posted.


I think it was just a generalized statement. Not one for a bunch of members on a dog forum to make a huge deal over...


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## FBarnes (Feb 17, 2013)

brindle said:


> I think it was just a generalized statement. Not one for a bunch of members on a dog forum to make a huge deal over...


oh the irony...


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## brindle (Mar 14, 2013)

FBarnes said:


> oh the irony...


Touché lol.
My dogs breath is no better or worse on kibble or raw. It all has depended on how often I brush her teeth (which I think ALL people should do no matter what is being fed).
As for her coat-- the best it has EVER been on has been Iams and Healthwise which is what I am currently feeding. It's soft, non greasy and super shiny.
On raw is was dry, brittle and nasty looking. Doesn't mean some dogs don't look very nice on raw because I have seen that too in other dogs.


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## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

My IGs aren't hypoglycaemic and run all day spring summer and fall? And what do you mean weak pad leather? Why would diet affect that? Wouldn't that be genetics? None of my raw fed dogs have ever cut open their pads except Tess once running over glass that I didn't see.


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

brindle said:


> Touché lol.
> My dogs breath is no better or worse on kibble or raw. It all has depended on how often I brush her teeth (which I think ALL people should do no matter what is being fed).
> As for her coat-- the best it has EVER been on has been Iams and Healthwise which is what I am currently feeding. It's soft, non greasy and super shiny.
> On raw is was dry, brittle and nasty looking. Doesn't mean some dogs don't look very nice on raw because I have seen that too in other dogs.


Let's see skadoosh, you were on raw for how long?  And so many human errors were made


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## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

Re the tooth brushing thing, I really do think raw makes a difference in dental health. I belong to an Italian greyhound group and am only one of two raw feeders (out of maybe 20 members, 40ish dogs) and all the kibble fed dogs do have noticeable tartar on the teeth and some breath odor. It's a breed hugely known for dental problems and everyone brushes (except me), and I don't need to.


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## brindle (Mar 14, 2013)

Caty M said:


> Re the tooth brushing thing, I really do think raw makes a difference in dental health. I belong to an Italian greyhound group and am only one of two raw feeders (out of maybe 20 members, 40ish dogs) and all the kibble fed dogs do have noticeable tartar on the teeth and some breath odor. It's a breed hugely known for dental problems and everyone brushes (except me), and I don't need to.


I think the bones do scrape the teeth and rub plaque off but this can also be done with a scaler. It is just as efficient as far as I have seen.


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## FBarnes (Feb 17, 2013)

brindle said:


> Touché lol.
> My dogs breath is no better or worse on kibble or raw. It all has depended on how often I brush her teeth (which I think ALL people should do no matter what is being fed).
> As for her coat-- the best it has EVER been on has been Iams and Healthwise which is what I am currently feeding. It's soft, non greasy and super shiny.
> On raw is was dry, brittle and nasty looking. Doesn't mean some dogs don't look very nice on raw because I have seen that too in other dogs.


I hope she is still in fine health when she's 12 years old. Personally I don't care what anyone feeds. My days of trying to convert people are long over. 

My whole point over this whole thing is some fancy doctor making a statement he doesn't back up. There's not a single dog show judge anywhere in his statement. Then people start arguing over raw/vs. kibble. No one is interested in verifying the accuracy (or not) of the original statement. Everything seems to devolve rapidly into "your dog food sucks" no matter the topic. And then people just start blurting out totally unfounded crap like that's the end of the argument. No one questions THOSE statements either.

Any show dog judges here? Anyone know of any? And has there ever been a test of show judges to see if they can REALLY tell the difference in raw and kibble fed dogs, or not? Maybe the cat expert should share some of that information if he has it.


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

FBarnes said:


> I hope she is still in fine health when she's 12 years old. Personally I don't care what anyone feeds. My days of trying to convert people are long over.
> 
> My whole point over this whole thing is some fancy doctor making a statement he doesn't back up. There's not a single dog show judge anywhere in his statement. Then people start arguing over raw/vs. kibble. No one is interested in verifying the accuracy (or not) of the original statement. Everything seems to devolve rapidly into "your dog food sucks" no matter the topic. And then people just start blurting out totally unfounded crap like that's the end of the argument. No one questions THOSE statements either.
> 
> Any show dog judges here? Anyone know of any? And has there ever been a test of show judges to see if they can REALLY tell the difference in raw and kibble fed dogs, or not? Maybe the cat expert should share some of that information if he has it.



I know a few B.T. judges who are in our club, one travels all over to judge. When we have our next board meeting I will ask her.


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## DaViking (Sep 27, 2011)

Caty M said:


> My IGs aren't hypoglycaemic and run all day spring summer and fall? And what do you mean weak pad leather? Why would diet affect that? Wouldn't that be genetics? None of my raw fed dogs have ever cut open their pads except Tess once running over glass that I didn't see.


It was one of the reasons many of us jumped ship on raw. SAR dogs train half the year on snow and ice conditions to become avalanche certified. Pads get a lot of "abuse" from ice and snow and on raw the problem got much worse. It's something to look for all year long and for all feeding regimes but no matter how we adjusted and supplemented on raw the problem was significant.


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## brindle (Mar 14, 2013)

FBarnes said:


> I hope she is still in fine health when she's 12 years old. Personally I don't care what anyone feeds. My days of trying to convert people are long over.
> 
> My whole point over this whole thing is some fancy doctor making a statement he doesn't back up. There's not a single dog show judge anywhere in his statement. Then people start arguing over raw/vs. kibble. No one is interested in verifying the accuracy (or not) of the original statement. Everything seems to devolve rapidly into "your dog food sucks" no matter the topic. And then people just start blurting out totally unfounded crap like that's the end of the argument. No one questions THOSE statements either.
> 
> Any show dog judges here? Anyone know of any? And has there ever been a test of show judges to see if they can REALLY tell the difference in raw and kibble fed dogs, or not? Maybe the cat expert should share some of that information if he has it.


She may not be healthy at 12, her genetics are a complete unknown. She could also get hit by a car..? God only knows. 
I know my dogs have always lived long, full lives on crap food (Ol Roy or a co-op special in the brown bag), so I'm not particularly concerned. I can afford decent veterinary care  
I DO feed much better then I used to. I would pay $100 per bag if I knew it would work well. Been there, done that... food sucked.


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

brindle said:


> I fed raw and didn't notice much of a difference :bored:


Oh we are well aware of your raw feeding escapades.


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

I've seen plenty of perfectly healthy dogs on kibble. I don't think feeding kibble makes an owner a bad owner, or is an indication someone loves their dog any less. If raw didn't fit into my circumstances, I'd feed kibble. Fortunately it does and likely always will because that's simply where my priority lies. I don't have kids, and I have a reasonable budget in terms of both time and money. 
That said. 
There's a very distinct doggy odor that literally permeates the living quarters of kibble fed dogs. Kibble feeders usually don't smell it. Some are worse than others, and I'm sure genetics, breed, coat type, living conditions, and grooming come into play as well, not JUST diet. 
Kibble fed dogs FEEL different. They feel grimey. Again, most kibble feeders don't feel it. I can't even COUNT the number of times I've discussed it with people who tell me there dog doesn't feel that way. Yes. they do. Petting kibble fed dogs after living with a pack of raw fed dogs is just not the most enjoyable....
There's a difference. There simply just is. I don't care about what science says about perfectly formulated food for high performance working dogs. I have pets. I have pets who enjoy a long walk or a day at the park, or a day of hiking in the mountains. I used to feed kibble. It worked for my dogs for a long time. I didn't feel like my dogs felt grimey or stunk. Then I discovered raw and after feeling the difference (at the time I only fed ONE dog raw- the rest were still on kibble) I'd have a real hard time going back. 


And that's not even mentioning poop. I can't even IMAGINE the piles I'd have if I fed kibble... oh gross.


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## brindle (Mar 14, 2013)

CorgiPaws said:


> I've seen plenty of perfectly healthy dogs on kibble. I don't think feeding kibble makes an owner a bad owner, or is an indication someone loves their dog any less. If raw didn't fit into my circumstances, I'd feed kibble. Fortunately it does and likely always will because that's simply where my priority lies. I don't have kids, and I have a reasonable budget in terms of both time and money.
> That said.
> There's a very distinct doggy odor that literally permeates the living quarters of kibble fed dogs. Kibble feeders usually don't smell it. Some are worse than others, and I'm sure genetics, breed, coat type, living conditions, and grooming come into play as well, not JUST diet.
> Kibble fed dogs FEEL different. They feel grimey. Again, most kibble feeders don't feel it. I can't even COUNT the number of times I've discussed it with people who tell me there dog doesn't feel that way. Yes. they do. Petting kibble fed dogs after living with a pack of raw fed dogs is just not the most enjoyable....
> ...


I found raw poop more gross. It would dry and crumble and I couldn't pick it up. I just had these dusty piles of crap on my lawn lol. I've never seen a wolf poop like that actually... hmm.


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## PDXdogmom (Jun 30, 2010)

CorgiPaws: You have found what makes the most sense for your dogs and they evidently do extremely well. While I have not fed raw, through four decades I have fed a variety of different kibbles, dehydrated, and home-cooked. To say that all non rawfed poop is huge to that every non-raw fed dog feels grimy is a bit implausible. I have found significant differences and outcomes between foods. 

Many years ago I did feed dogs "brand A" kibble and the poops were truly smelly and large. The coats were somewhat dull and skin on the dry side. Such is not the case now. The several kibbles I feed (supplemented with bits of cooked meat) produce small stool, healthy skin and appropriate shine of coat for the breed.


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## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

brindle said:


> I found raw poop more gross. It would dry and crumble and I couldn't pick it up. I just had these dusty piles of crap on my lawn lol. I've never seen a wolf poop like that actually... hmm.


I've never seen a wolf poop period... Probably because it dried up and crumbled and blew away. Oops!


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## brindle (Mar 14, 2013)

Caty M said:


> I've never seen a wolf poop period... Probably because it dried up and crumbled and blew away. Oops!


LOL! :hat::hat::hat:


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## DaViking (Sep 27, 2011)

Caty M said:


> I've never seen a wolf poop period... Probably because it dried up and crumbled and blew away. Oops!


No, they are a pile of stinking mess.


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## DaViking (Sep 27, 2011)

CorgiPaws said:


> I've seen plenty of perfectly healthy dogs on kibble. I don't think feeding kibble makes an owner a bad owner, or is an indication someone loves their dog any less. If raw didn't fit into my circumstances, I'd feed kibble. Fortunately it does and likely always will because that's simply where my priority lies. I don't have kids, and I have a reasonable budget in terms of both time and money.
> That said.
> There's a very distinct doggy odor that literally permeates the living quarters of kibble fed dogs. Kibble feeders usually don't smell it. Some are worse than others, and I'm sure genetics, breed, coat type, living conditions, and grooming come into play as well, not JUST diet.
> Kibble fed dogs FEEL different. They feel grimey. Again, most kibble feeders don't feel it. I can't even COUNT the number of times I've discussed it with people who tell me there dog doesn't feel that way. Yes. they do. Petting kibble fed dogs after living with a pack of raw fed dogs is just not the most enjoyable....
> ...


Haha, what a load of bull crap, no pun intended. Have you smelled a wolf in captivity fed a raw diet? I have, they smell musky and gamey. Just like my raw fed dogs who ate free range mountain lamb, mutton, moose, pork, duck and some chicken. Does this mean my lamb, mutton and moose raw fed dogs was second rate raw fed dogs since they had a slight odor? Some dogs smell, some don't, some dogs feel grimey, some don't, this is true for kibble fed dogs and raw fed dogs alike. Sheez, get out and about and grab some experience and get down from your high horse. "Petting kibble fed dogs is not the most enjoyable" Wow, and you run a daycare. Picking up poop, eewwwww, get real.


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## lauren43 (Feb 6, 2011)

I'm not really interested in this debate. 

I will say I've have pet some dogs and experienced the filmy gross feeling. The ones that come to mind were probably eating the cheapest kibble ever, does that necessarily mean it was te kibble? Who knows!

My neighbors dog in fact smells to high heaven, he used to have a gorgeous coat and now it just looks dull and boring...perhaps it was his food (he looked good for about 6months after they got him)...perhaps it's something else all together. His breathe however (and teeth) are nasty, like gag in your mouth nasty but they aren't fussy they don't care what dog food he eats or if he gets his teeth cleaned ever...and he's only 4. Their past 2 dogs had their issues as well, one had little hair on his back end and he licked at it a lot, they tried medications nothing worked...then he died rather suddenly at 8. The dog before that had a very frizzy, not soft coat...who knows what caused that. All of their dogs had terrible breathe.

My parents dog is long haired. I find long hair has a scent to it in general. But her coat is very nice and extremely soft. Her breathe, gag worthy.

My dog who is in excellent physical condition (muscle wise) still has dry skin. And I think he has the pad issues Daviking was talking about...His breathe is barely noticeable and his teeth are pearly white.


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

brindle said:


> I found raw poop more gross. It would dry and crumble and I couldn't pick it up. I just had these dusty piles of crap on my lawn lol. I've never seen a wolf poop like that actually... hmm.


Raw poop does dry out and crumble away.... however it takes several days to get that way. If the stools are crumbly and white right out the gate, too much bone is being fed. User error. 



PDXdogmom said:


> CorgiPaws: You have found what makes the most sense for your dogs and they evidently do extremely well. While I have not fed raw, through four decades I have fed a variety of different kibbles, dehydrated, and home-cooked. To say that all non rawfed poop is huge to that every non-raw fed dog feels grimy is a bit implausible. I have found significant differences and outcomes between foods.
> 
> Many years ago I did feed dogs "brand A" kibble and the poops were truly smelly and large. The coats were somewhat dull and skin on the dry side. Such is not the case now. The several kibbles I feed (supplemented with bits of cooked meat) produce small stool, healthy skin and appropriate shine of coat for the breed.


I can honestly say that out of the hundreds of dogs a year I work with, for the last 8 or so years.... maybe a handful of kibble fed dogs have not distinctly felt like kibble fed dogs. Maybe. And in comparison, yes, kibble poop is larger and WAY smellier. Quality kibble makes a difference, ABSOLUTELY. But... every kibble fed dog I've met... EVERY single one of them... is grimey feeling to some degree. I didn't believe it when I fed kibble. I didn't think my dogs felt grimey. Now I know they did. 
Again, if raw ever didn't fit into my lifestyle, I'd feed kibble. I'm not a raw feeding nut that thinks every single kibble fed dog is unhealthy and in the hands of awful owners who don't love them. (like many on this forum seem to think....) But in my experience, limited as it may be, there's a definite difference in the mentioned areas. I've helped several people not on this forum switch to raw, and I have yet to help one who hasn't seen a notable difference as well. 
And I'm not even saying every dog does great on raw and every dog does awful on kibble. My brother's dog (fed Nutri Source GF Chicken) feels pretty close to a raw fed dog.... close...



DaViking said:


> Haha, what a load of bull crap, no pun intended. Have you smelled a wolf in captivity fed a raw diet? I have, they smell musky and gamey. Just like my raw fed dogs who ate free range mountain lamb, mutton, moose, pork, duck and some chicken. Does this mean my lamb, mutton and moose raw fed dogs was second rate raw fed dogs since they had a slight odor? Some dogs smell, some don't, some dogs feel grimey, some don't, this is true for kibble fed dogs and raw fed dogs alike. Sheez, get out and about and grab some experience and get down from your high horse. "Petting kibble fed dogs is not the most enjoyable" Wow, and you run a daycare. Picking up poop, eewwwww, get real.


I'm not talking about wolves. I'm not trying to compare dogs and wolves. I'm talking about MY personal experience in kibble fed dogs vs. raw fed dogs and simply how they feel/ smell. Is that the ultimate absolute indicator of health? No. Am I saying kibble is terrible? No. Am I saying everyone needs to feed raw? no. Am I saying I have something against kibble fed dogs? No. Heck, I'm covered in them all day long! I adore dogs, no matter what their owner chooses to feed them. When I comes down to MY dogs in MY home, I appreciate the lack of odor and grime on them. They sleep with me for crying out loud! I'm not grossed out by dogs, their feces, their vomit, their fur, their grime... none of it. But have I personally noted a difference? absolutely. 

THAT SAID, I've seen dogs do pretty terribly when their owners decide to feed raw and think that throwing down some ground beef night after night is sufficient... Dogs are individuals. What works for one doesn't work for all, and I don't think people should feed raw unless they do it properly (which is NOT complicated AT ALL.) 
Some of the very best dog owners I know feed kibble. I fed my first dog Pedigree for the first 10 years of his life. I didn't love him any less.


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## BearMurphy (Feb 29, 2012)

DaViking said:


> It was one of the reasons many of us jumped ship on raw. SAR dogs train half the year on snow and ice conditions to become avalanche certified. Pads get a lot of "abuse" from ice and snow and on raw the problem got much worse. It's something to look for all year long and for all feeding regimes but no matter how we adjusted and supplemented on raw the problem was significant.


maybe they weren't getting enough zinc in their diet


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## DaViking (Sep 27, 2011)

BearMurphy said:


> maybe they weren't getting enough zinc in their diet


We tried everything at the time, including zinc, copper, GLA, levels and sources of omega-3 and 6 etc. The closest to the truth you are going to come is found in a metabolic discussion more suited for the raw section. But it probably won't be with me. Monster is likely to have a go but I'm not seeing it going anywhere.


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## BearMurphy (Feb 29, 2012)

DaViking said:


> We tried everything at the time, including zinc, copper, GLA, levels and sources of omega-3 and 6 etc. The closest to the truth you are going to come is found in a metabolic discussion more suited for the raw section. But it probably won't be with me. Monster is likely to have a go but I'm not seeing it going anywhere.


The details interest me because I like to learn as much as I can about my dog's diet and things in general, but I don't have a working dog so the nutritional demands on his body aren't the same. I do get why it's more critical to feed a specific balance to a dog who needs to extract more from their diet to to do their job. About how many calories a day do you feed your SAR dogs?


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## DaViking (Sep 27, 2011)

BearMurphy said:


> The details interest me because I like to learn as much as I can about my dog's diet and things in general, but I don't have a working dog so the nutritional demands on his body aren't the same. I do get why it's more critical to feed a specific balance to a dog who needs to extract more from their diet to to do their job. About how many calories a day do you feed your SAR dogs?


It all depends. Everything from a normal 1000-1200 Calories per day up to 5-7000 Calories per day. Working in snow is the hardest thing a dog can do.


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## BearMurphy (Feb 29, 2012)

DaViking said:


> It all depends. Everything from a normal 1000-1200 Calories per day up to 5-7000 Calories per day. Working in snow is the hardest thing a dog can do.


ok, I understand where you are coming from a lot better now. I don't know how you could successfully feed 5-7000 calories of whole food a day and have time for digestion after each meal so the dog can do their rigorous job. I have no idea how I would choose to feed my dog if he had to eat that much and work that hard!


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