# Report on Diamond plant



## meggels (May 30, 2010)

FDA releases report on Diamond Pet Foods


Yuck yuck yuck


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## Makovach (Jan 24, 2012)

This is just sickening. I hope they get shut down. They need to go do in depth inspections on the rest of diamond plants.


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## greyshadows (Jan 30, 2012)

Makovach said:


> This is just sickening. I hope they get shut down. They need to go do in depth inspections on the rest of diamond plants.


I bet the other plants are sweating..I cannot imagine working at one of these plants and not saying anything or not trying to be a conscientious employee. They really have a lot of influence in the pet food market with all the brands they make..


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## Sapphire-Light (Aug 8, 2010)

This is horrible, after all this recalls I feel bad about all the times I recommended kirkland, I feel fooled :smow:

I wish the FDA could make at least one inspection per year for any pet food plant to prevent things like this.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

They have ingredients at the plant that are not listed on any ingredients list of any of the foods they make there. And we're supposed to trust these companies? 

The ingredients, animal fat and animal digest, are the worst of the worst and the ones that are allowed the euthanized, 4D animals, etc.

What really WAS in that bag of Taste of the Wild?



> The FDA inspection report specifically mentions the ingredient "animal fat" and "animal digest". Is this an FDA clue to bigger issues? Per the ingredient statements of every pet food recalled made at this Diamond South Carolina plant, neither of these ingredients are listed in the ingredient panel (at least my search of each brand did not find any). Not one cat food or dog food has the ingredients animal fat or animal digest listed.


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## Makovach (Jan 24, 2012)

xellil said:


> They have ingredients at the plant that are not listed on any ingredients list of any of the foods they make there. And we're supposed to trust these companies?
> 
> The ingredients, animal fat and animal digest, are the worst of the worst and the ones that are allowed the euthanized, 4D animals, etc.
> 
> What really WAS in that bag of Taste of the Wild?


This makes it harder for me to really trust any food company. Just goes to show that they can pull crap and tell you they are doing something, and go do something competently different. They tell you that "X" ingredient is in your food, but in actuality, it is "Z" ingredient in your food. I hate Diamond! I have been working my butt off getting every one I know that feeds anything made by Diamond to a more trusted company that hasn't had zillions of problems, or PMR if they are up for learning.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

It's what i have been saying all along - they can tell us ANYTHING. And put in whatever they want. How would we know? 

I doubt it's limited to Diamond, either. Maybe other companies just don't get caught by using cardboard paddles to move their nasty stuff around.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

She's on the radio right now talking about it:

Susan Thixton -Deciphering The Diamond Pet Food Recall 05/16 by The Organic View | Blog Talk Radio


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## DaViking (Sep 27, 2011)

xellil said:


> They have ingredients at the plant that are not listed on any ingredients list of any of the foods they make there.


You know that for a fact do you? Or are you just wording yourself in that way so it's easier to drive in a point you wanna make? Ever heard of white label manufacturing and branding?

On the other hand. Diamond is crapola anyho...


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

DaViking said:


> You know that for a fact do you? Or are you just wording yourself in that way so it's easier to drive in a point you wanna make? Ever heard of white label manufacturing?


Did you read the report? It was in the FDA report. 

Yes, I'd say I pretty much know it for a fact. Why don't you take a look instead of just defending these crap companies blindly.

I swear, you would defend these people if they poisoned your dogs.


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## Sapphire-Light (Aug 8, 2010)

xellil said:


> They have ingredients at the plant that are not listed on any ingredients list of any of the foods they make there. And we're supposed to trust these companies?
> 
> The ingredients, animal fat and animal digest, are the worst of the worst and the ones that are allowed the euthanized, 4D animals, etc.
> 
> What really WAS in that bag of Taste of the Wild?



This is horrible, and so sad.

I'm not sure if it's only the kibble companies we can't trust, but also for raw feeders we don't really know what farmers are really feeding to their animals, I mentioned before that were I live people uses beef carcases to make food for cattle.

This reminds me that a couple of weeks ago there was an article on the newspaper were they found out people making food for cattle using carcases of beef, pork and even feral dogs, it even has a pic, I can post it later.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Sapphire-Light said:


> This reminds me that a couple of weeks ago there was an article on the newspaper were they found out people making food for cattle using carcases of beef, pork and even feral dogs, it even has a pic, I can post it later.


That is thoroughly illegal and they should go to jail for that. THat's how mad cow disease got started.


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## Sapphire-Light (Aug 8, 2010)

xellil said:


> That is thoroughly illegal and they should go to jail for that. THat's how mad cow disease got started.


Agree, however I doubt they send the people there's too mush impunity were I live even for many types of crimes , in the article they only mention a fine for the people who made the food.

here's the pic,worse of all they were actually making the food in the shoreline of a river that is heavy contaminated wit human feces.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Yikes. That's insane.


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## Sapphire-Light (Aug 8, 2010)

xellil said:


> Yikes. That's insane.


Scary isn't? I remember hearing about this when I was very little (around 9) and saw a market a man wit a wheelbarrow that was full of beef skulls skinned but they had some meat on eat and even the had eyes and lot of blood, that was shocking for a 9 year old to see, so I asked my father what the man was doing, he explained the man sure had come from the butcher (they have stores in the area) and he was going to sell the skulls wit brains and all to someone who would burn it and use it to make food for cattle since they were parts that people don't like to eat and "cattle needs protein" and those beef parts have good protein, so is not wasted. 

Even if I was a child, I knew this was wrong, cows are herbivores so why they would need meat? mostly of their own species? 

I just don't understand, animals like cows and horses are herbivores, so why does people think they need protein from meat even if cannibalism is involved?, while animals like dogs and cats who are carnivorous and need protein from meat are left punished to eat dyed corn, wheat and soy and no meat protein? I don't get it.


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## FurMom1089 (Apr 22, 2012)

*shakes head* yup theres a reason I reach down my dogs throat to retrieve kibbles he picks up on the floor of where I work... I actually shake my finger at him and go "noooooo! poopy! Yuk!" he just stares at me and wags his tail.. children..

I'm working on converting those who will listen... I'm printing out that article and posting it on the board... I suggest others do the same if u can :/


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## Itty bitty Kitty (Dec 26, 2011)

AW HECK WITH KIBBLE! PTAT!

I'm still sad that Diamond has proven to be untrustworthy, especially when I was willing to give it another chance with Taste Of The Wild if they shape up ( or at least Canidea with their own plant) but now I'm feeling skeptical about trusting companies. I was never one to really trust anything I had no control over in the first place. I just feel a little deceived because Diamond products were my 'hope' of finding decent kibble for an affordable price.

I am SO busting for raw when I'm able to!


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## KittyKat (Feb 11, 2011)

This makes the claim from other companies that they closely monitored the food made at factories like Diamond rather laughable.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

KittyKat said:


> This makes the claim from other companies that they closely monitored the food made at factories like Diamond rather laughable.


Doesn't it, though! And Diamond's claim of 151 quality tests and they never picked up salmonella since October?

Honest to goodness, you read stuff like this and what else is there to think but that they are adulterating the food either accidentally or on purpose and then not reporting it? 

And the finding of animal fat and animal digest at a plant that theoretically does not put that stuff in any of the foods it makes there?

yep, include me in the tinfoil hat club


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## Sapphire-Light (Aug 8, 2010)

xellil said:


> And the finding of animal fat and animal digest at a plant that theoretically does not put that stuff in any of the foods it makes there?


This fact makes me very mad, is like they are making fun of us who spent several hours researching for info about food for our pets.

Now I feel so angry to know that I was fooled to think the kirkland was a better choice over the proplan, eukanuba, SD, etc , just because the labels ... now we know they have being lying all this time.

The only relief I feel, is that Pompadour was just in kirkland puppy for a short time since the kibble pieces were too large for his tiny mice like teeth.


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## wolfsnaps88 (Jan 2, 2012)

Here is proof of why I don't like kibble. I can't trust how its made, or even whats in it. 

And to think I fed my dogs taste of the wild, thinking it was a great food...

And what of the other dog food plants? 

Where is the money from the profits of the sales of these foods going? Shouldn't the plant and the products used to make the food be priority number one? Or does the CEO need another yacht?


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## DaViking (Sep 27, 2011)

xellil said:


> And the finding of animal fat and animal digest at a plant that theoretically does not put that stuff in any of the foods it makes there?


Not saying that's the case here but animal digest/fat is an ingredient that can be used to (goes into) manufacture other ingredients like natural flavors and similar. The "natural flavour" would be what you'd find on a label. But again, I don't know if that the case here or if they manufacture any formulas with "natural flavor" in the first place. This is the kind of things I like to add to a discussion before I yell crucify crucify. The authorities didn't nail them for label fraud, they got them on improper handling of ingredients and zone violations. But at the end of the day you won't get an argument from me weather or not Diamond is crapola, they are.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

DaViking said:


> Not saying that's the case here but animal digest/fat is an ingredient that can be used to (goes into) manufacture other ingredients like natural flavors and similar. The "natural flavour" would be what you'd find on a label. But again, I don't know if that the case here or if they manufacture any formulas with "natural flavor" in the first place. This is the kind of things I like to add to a discussion before I yell crucify crucify. The authorities didn't nail them for label fraud, they got them on improper handling of ingredients and zone violations. But at the end of the day you won't get an argument from me weather or not Diamond is crapola, they are.


I don't agree. I have seen "animal digest" on lots of labels. My vet gave me something recently that had "animal digest" as a first ingredient.

And I don't think they can just change the name from "animal digest" to "natural flavors" - which by definition is an extract or spice and is ALSO an undesireable ingredient in dog food.

But if it's true, that just proves my point! *They are hiding filth in the dog food.*

And I sure don't think the fact the FDA hasn't done anything except note it should give anyone any assurance about anything. I doubt the FDA is finished there. And if they are, shame on them. Look at all the other violations - they didn't do anything yet about them using cardboard and duct tape in their paddles, either.


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## DaViking (Sep 27, 2011)

xellil said:


> I don't agree. I have seen "animal digest" on lots of labels. My vet gave me something recently that had "animal digest" as a first ingredient.
> 
> And I don't think they can just change the name from "animal digest" to "natural flavors" - which by definition is an extract or spice and is ALSO an undesireable ingredient in dog food.
> 
> ...


lol, you are a master at the fine art of twisting, ignoring and bickering. If you'd spend a fraction of the time and effort you spend here actually training dogs your future would be nothing short of amazing. Have a nice day.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

DaViking said:


> lol, you are a master at the fine art of twisting, ignoring and bickering. If you'd spend a fraction of the time and effort you spend here actually training dogs your future would be nothing short of amazing. Have a nice day.


Ah. Personal attacks. Spoken when one runs out of argument.


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## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

I have to say, if that is true and they are putting that in "natural flavouring" I'd be kind of pissed if I fed that. Those are some of the ingredients that people typically try to stay away from, they have to know that or else it'd be on the ingredient list. Kind of sneaky if you ask me.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

:usa::usa::usa::usa::usa:


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

What truthaboutpetfood.com has to say about the digest and animal fat:



> If none of the foods manufactured at this plant have the ingredients animal fat or animal digest in their formulas, why were these ingredients mentioned in the FDA inspection? *Did regulatory officials cross-check ingredients inspected at the plant (specifically animal fat and animal digest) with pet foods manufactured at this plant? Was this Diamond manufacturing plant was using animal fat and animal digest in these pet foods without consumer knowledge?
> *
> *For those unaware, animal fat and animal digest are considered by many (myself included) to be the worst of the worst of pet food ingredients. FDA testing has linked these ingredients with euthanized animals; ground and cooked euthanized animals.*
> 
> ...


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

"natural flavorings" in human foods many times means MSG and other nasty things, so I have no doubt there is crap product in pet foods with "natural flavorings"!!:wacko:


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

:usa::usa::usa::usa::usa::usa:


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## thegoodstuff (May 12, 2010)

The woman at Costco said that they did an internal investigation. The Kirkland food is made in a completely different area of the Diamond plant and none of the Kirkland was actually infected. Thats why it is still on the shelves. She said it can be returned for a refund even without the bag and even if most of it was gone already. She said the receipt was not required. 

The bag I bought since the recall I got in the first week of April. There is only 25% or less left. I mix it with wet food with my hands twice a day. So at this point in light of what she said and since neither I or Nicky have gotten sick, I wonder if there is any point returning it, plus I wouldnt want to abruptly change his food if I didnt have to.


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## KittyKat (Feb 11, 2011)

thegoodstuff said:


> The woman at Costco said that they did an internal investigation. The Kirkland food is made in a completely different area of the Diamond plant and none of the Kirkland was actually infected. Thats why it is still on the shelves. She said it can be returned for a refund even without the bag and even if most of it was gone already. She said the receipt was not required.
> 
> The bag I bought since the recall I got in the first week of April. There is only 25% or less left. I mix it with wet food with my hands twice a day. So at this point in light of what she said and since neither I or Nicky have gotten sick, I wonder if there is any point returning it, plus I wouldnt want to abruptly change his food if I didnt have to.


I would change the food and use what you have left for the transition. I mean just look at the FDA's report - that plant is disgusting.

On a side note: My bf's dogs coat looks wonderful since the food was changed from Eagle Pack to Acana. It looks like she's had a bath every day.... didn't think i'd see a change like that so fast, it's only been a week and a half!


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## Sheltielover25 (Jan 18, 2011)

thegoodstuff said:


> The woman at Costco said that they did an internal investigation. The Kirkland food is made in a completely different area of the Diamond plant and none of the Kirkland was actually infected. Thats why it is still on the shelves. She said it can be returned for a refund even without the bag and even if most of it was gone already. She said the receipt was not required.
> 
> The bag I bought since the recall I got in the first week of April. There is only 25% or less left. I mix it with wet food with my hands twice a day. So at this point in light of what she said and since neither I or Nicky have gotten sick, I wonder if there is any point returning it, plus I wouldnt want to abruptly change his food if I didnt have to.


I'd just be worried the fact the manufacturer clearly isn't testing their products. I don't know how much I believe a rep at Costco either when she says none of the brands were infected... how do that know since they don't test? Maybe someone didn't get sick enough to warrant a hospital visit or maybe funds prevent them from going and they have to ride it out or maybe it didn't get linked to the dog food. You can't say the food wasn't contaminated, since they weren't testing.


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## 1605 (May 27, 2009)

*FDA Report*

See here:http://www.fda.gov/downloads/AboutF...cy/ORA/ORAElectronicReadingRoom/UCM304252.pdf


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## DaViking (Sep 27, 2011)

xellil said:


> Ah. Personal attacks. Spoken when one runs out of argument.


Well, no. That would be true if I was trading arguments with you. I was merely suggesting one of several plausible reasons for why the digest was there. Others include transit, rendering facilities on site, white label manufacturing or in fact, as you have speculated about, actual ingredient and label manipulation. I don't know and I frankly don't care that much. I personally have no love for any Diamond product and see this as an opportunity for ppl to try other and better brands. The rest was just a true observation.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

DaViking said:


> lol, you are a master at the fine art of twisting, ignoring and bickering. If you'd spend a fraction of the time and effort you spend here actually training dogs your future would be nothing short of amazing. Have a nice day.


Well, then, personal attack for no discernible reason.


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## thegoodstuff (May 12, 2010)

KittyKat said:


> I would change the food and use what you have left for the transition. I mean just look at the FDA's report - that plant is disgusting.


Before this recall, Kirkland Lamb and Rice scored an "A" here. I wasnt planning a transition to _anything_ at the moment. Theoretically, if its ok to finish it then its ok to continue to use it. This reasoning is not to be confused with the premise that I should choose a different diet than the one I use now for several _other_ reasons.

Interestingly enough, according to this PetMD article, only the Kirkland *Signature* line was affected.

*Your complete guide to the Diamond pet food recalls (UPDATED May 18, 2012)*


Interesting article: 
Methods to ensure sanitary practices in pet food plants


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## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

thegoodstuff said:


> Before this recall, Kirkland Lamb and Rice scored an "A" here. I wasnt planning a transition to _anything_ at the moment. Theoretically, if its ok to finish it then its ok to continue to use it. This reasoning is not to be confused with the premise that I should choose a different diet than the one I use now for several _other_ reasons.
> 
> Interestingly enough, according to this PetMD article, only the Kirkland *Signature* line was affected.
> 
> ...


With the report coming through, even if Kirkland wasn't in the recall, I'd stay FAR away from their foods. The report said their plant was disgusting. Why risk it when there are many smaller brands available?


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## Sheltielover25 (Jan 18, 2011)

Caty M said:


> With the report coming through, even if Kirkland wasn't in the recall, I'd stay FAR away from their foods. The report said their plant was disgusting. Why risk it when there are many smaller brands available?


Yeah, exactly. After diamond's last "mishap" with the mold, and now this, I'd RUN. The plant being dirty, the non-testing and lying about testing, cross contamination, the animal fat/digest, and their history should really deter anyone away from this company. I mean, what will it be next? Another mold? It's kind of like playing with fire... but this is your dog who will get burned most likely. Plus, as a consumer, don't you feel you don't deserved to be lied to?


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## kaliberknl (May 9, 2012)

None of the products recalled before the inspection were supposed to include animal fat or animal digest yet the FDA specifically tested these ingredients. I believe Blue was caught listing ingredients that the product did not contain and vie versa.


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## kaliberknl (May 9, 2012)

The recalls haven't ended yet. Another two dump and runs one tonight...


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

Diamond Plant #2, Salmonella

Now affecting a second plant? Jesus


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Things just keep coming out and coming out.

Now, it turns out the recalled food was made in August 2011 but was not packaged until the end of October. And the expiry date was a year from October, not a year from production.

And no one seems to know how that food was stored for two months before it went into a bag as "fresh"



> 'Product manufactured on August 26' but not packaged until 'September 27' and 'October 18'? How was that pet food stored?
> 
> For starters, with the last production code listed above, the pet food was made on August 26, 2011. Yet the 'Best Before' date on the package was listed as October 18, 2012 (the packaging date seven weeks later)? Isn't this misleading to a consumer? Shouldn't the 'Best Before' date coincide with the manufacturing date?
> 
> ...


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## Sapphire-Light (Aug 8, 2010)

meggels said:


> Diamond Plant #2, Salmonella
> 
> Now affecting a second plant? Jesus


ARGH! the bag of Solid Gold wee bit I have is made at the Missouri plant, I got this bag as a gift from my aunt who lives in the states.

I haven't opened it yet, I was going to but then the first recalls stared, I will wait more to see what happens but I guess is going to be recalled.


I will try to find if the recipient is still there, this is sad when I got the bag I was so exited that Pompadour was going to eat a buffalo based kibble, sobs.


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## InkedMarie (Sep 9, 2011)

I know some people who weren't all that bothered by the first set of recalls; I wonder what they think now? For anyone reading, if you fed a Diamond made food, are you changing? If yes, to what?


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Sapphire-Light said:


> ARGH! the bag of Solid Gold wee bit I have is made at the Missouri plant, I got this bag as a gift from my aunt who lives in the states.
> 
> I haven't opened it yet, I was going to but then the first recalls stared, I will wait more to see what happens but I guess is going to be recalled.
> 
> ...


That makes it doubly hard for you because you aren't here to take it back.


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## Sapphire-Light (Aug 8, 2010)

xellil said:


> That makes it doubly hard for you because you aren't here to take it back.


Yeah is bad luck  

Maybe if it gets recalled I could email them and explain the situation? at least my mom says she haves the recipient.

It appears they are going to send a new bag for the recalled foods, maybe they can send another bag to my aunt Solid Gold Health Products for Pets - Recalls 

I'm don't know too mush about recalls, but what happens when example you finish a bag but the food is recalled?


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

I have no idea if the food is all gone - my first thought is that you can't get another bag if you used up the one you have. 

But i could be wrong.


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## Sapphire-Light (Aug 8, 2010)

xellil said:


> I have no idea if the food is all gone - my first thought is that you can't get another bag if you used up the one you have.
> 
> But i could be wrong.


I see thanks, sigh the only way will be to try , if the recall happens I will ad a pic of the bag along wit the pic of the recipient.


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## BeagleCountry (Jan 20, 2012)

xellil said:


> Things just keep coming out and coming out.
> 
> Now, it turns out the recalled food was made in August 2011 but was not packaged until the end of October. And the expiry date was a year from October, not a year from production.
> 
> And no one seems to know how that food was stored for two months before it went into a bag as "fresh"


Sad that it takes something such as this to find out about the dog food industry. It would be interesting to know if it is common practice for pet foods to be stored in silos or something similar, then given a freshness date when it is packaged.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

BeagleCountry said:


> Sad that it takes something such as this to find out about the dog food industry. It would be interesting to know if it is common practice for pet foods to be stored in silos or something similar, then given a freshness date when it is packaged.


Susan Thaxton (who doesn't know for sure) doesn't think they all do it, but thinks they might do it when they get a large supply of meat very cheap, then go ahead and make the dog food and store it.

What's typical is when she asks them where it was stored no one will tell her. It makes you think of big giant piles of dry dog food sitting on a concrete floor or something. 

You know how some people report there is mold all over the bottom of the bag when they open it? I mean no one really knows except the people who are making it where that dog food was for two months - but it does allow the imagination to wander, maybe even thinking it's worse than it is. But I'm not sure it could be much worse than what they've already found.


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## thegoodstuff (May 12, 2010)

xellil said:


> What's typical is when she asks them where it was stored no one will tell her. It makes you think of big giant piles of dry dog food sitting on a concrete floor or something.


This is the visual I got when you said that: 













InkedMarie said:


> I know some people who weren't all that bothered by the first set of recalls; I wonder what they think now? For anyone reading, if you fed a Diamond made food, are you changing? If yes, to what?


Thats a good damn question. Suggestions?

Please keep the flame throwers holstered when I say this. Last summer, I had to say goodbye to my first dog that I raised from 8 weeks when he was diagnosed with bone cancer. He weighed 95 lbs and was 14 years and 3 months old when it was time to go. For his first year, I feed him Science Diet. From year 1 to year 8 he got Purina One. In years 9-14 it was Kirkland Lamb and Rice (and Trader Joe's canned lamb and rice). Most of you would say thats a sinfully crappy diet. I think his longevity speaks for itself. Im not advocating feeding one's dog food contaminated with Ebola but many folks cant afford to feed raw to two or even one dog. If I could, I would start _tomorrow_. The next step down I guess would be a higher end dry and or canned. But cost is the same problem, though to a lesser degree. So when you cant throw fistfuls of cash at the local raw supplier, or have the freezer space to store it, you need to find the best/affordable mass produced products. As a quick price comparison, "good" dry food can cost up to 50% more than, say, Kirkland food. Its easy for some folks to say 'you should be feeding your dog better food' when they eat at La Pretentia every night. Some folks are only budgeted for Denny's. 

Generally,

Kirkland Lamb and Rice is affordable.
Been using it for 7 years, dogs thrive on it. 
All pet food plants are disgusting. it only a matter of degree.
For the most part, the only manufacturers that have FDA inspectors descend on their plants en mass are those the the FDA has received a certain number of complaints regarding that manufacturer. 
As to the fact that there can be some ingredients that are at best undesirable and offend human sensibilities, remember, we're talking about animals who eat their own and other animal's feces. 
The fact that dogs thrive on the food with no apparent health issues.
There has been no documentation that the Kirkland Lamb and Rice _has actually been contaminated_. At this point its conjecture, rumor and 
sensationalism. 
Kirkland Lamb and Rice has been given a very high rating, *A*, out of over 100 brands. Average is 73, Kirkland Lamb and Rice scored 97.
The majority of people that posted here have had no negative personal experiences. 



I think we are all in agreement that the suits that run Diamond, as is the case with 98% of pet food producers, are dishonest, deceptive, money grubbing, self serving scumbagosaurus with their multi million dollar, pretty advertizing campaigns and that is not likely to change anytime soon. In general, all people need to see is that Lab or Golden running across a meadow in slow motion, then burying his face in a bowlful of the stuff. Sold!

"Dog food isnt made for dogs, it is made for people"​


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## InkedMarie (Sep 9, 2011)

I have found that I definitely feed less of a higher quality food. Suggestions would be to look at Nutrisca, Nutrisource, Annamaet, Earthborn. All have grainfree and grain inclusive formulas.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

thegoodstuff said:


> Its easy for some folks to say 'you should be feeding your dog better food' when they eat at La Pretentia every night. Some folks are only budgeted for Denny's. [/CENTER]


I agree with everything you say except this. There are people on a very low budget feeding their dogs raw. It may take a little more creativity to find meat for great prices, and maybe the dogs aren't getting prime rib and rabbit every day, but it's not only rich people who can afford it. Many people feed raw alot cheaper than they could feed dry.

I had a dog that lived to 17 on dry food, and he was a large dog. And healthy most of his life. But I have to ask myself - could he have lived to 20? Or maybe he wouldn't have had the nerve degeneration that cost him the use of his rear legs and in the end, his life? Since I'll never raise a puppy on raw food, I'll never know the difference over a lifetime.


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## 1605 (May 27, 2009)

Sapphire-Light said:


> Agree, however I doubt they send the people there's too mush impunity were I live even for many types of crimes , in the article they only mention a fine for the people who made the food.
> 
> here's the pic,worse of all they were actually making the food in the shoreline of a river that is heavy contaminated wit human feces.


Yes, that's a pretty graphic picture. But no one has translated what the caption or the portion of text that is visible means. Or put it into context of this particular thread. All we have is a nasty picture and part of an article. All in Spanish.

I started out trying to do the "caption" and got this: "after a denunciation, authorities of the Senasa and the MP discovered in the bordos of Chamelecon rest of animal that were being used for the flour elaboration". Ooookay....

People, please... let's get back to the original thread topic; bearing in mind that this is the DRY & CANNED DOG FOOD SECTION.


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## 7766 (Sep 20, 2011)

thegoodstuff said:


> I think we are all in agreement that the suits that run Diamond, as is the case with 98% of pet food producers, are dishonest, deceptive, money grubbing, self serving scumbagosaurus with their multi million dollar, pretty advertizing campaigns and that is not likely to change anytime soon. In general, all people need to see is that Lab or Golden running across a meadow in slow motion, then burying his face in a bowlful of the stuff. Sold!
> 
> "Dog food isnt made for dogs, it is made for people"​


I think people forget these are businesses not non-profits. Their existence is to make money. They are made out to be horrible people because of this. Yes, cutting corners and putting humans and animals health in jeopardy is wrong and they should be punished for that. But making money off of a product is not. 

Even for those that feed raw, people don't raise and slaughter animals out of the goodness of their hearts for your dogs. It's a way for them to make money.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

nlboz said:


> I think people forget these are businesses not non-profits. Their existence is to make money. They are made out to be horrible people because of this. Yes, cutting corners and putting humans and animals health in jeopardy is wrong and they should be punished for that. But making money off of a product is not.
> 
> Even for those that feed raw, people don't raise and slaughter animals out of the goodness of their hearts for your dogs. It's a way for them to make money.


There is nothing wrong with making money. That doesn't give anyone a right to be "dishonest, deceptive, money grubbing, self serving scumbagosaurus" which I think is very apt for most pet food companies.


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## bett (Mar 15, 2012)

i would cook before i'd ever use a diamond product again.
and they were on kirkland chicken and rice forever.


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## KittyKat (Feb 11, 2011)

SubMariner said:


> Yes, that's a pretty graphic picture. But no one has translated what the caption or the portion of text that is visible means. Or put it into context of this particular thread. All we have is a nasty picture and part of an article. All in Spanish.
> 
> I started out trying to do the "caption" and got this: "after a denunciation, authorities of the Senasa and the MP discovered in the bordos of Chamelecon rest of animal that were being used for the flour elaboration". Ooookay....
> 
> People, please... let's get back to the original thread topic; bearing in mind that this is the DRY & CANNED DOG FOOD SECTION.


Using some google fu:

Caption: "Following a complaint, authorities discovered Senasa (Agency responsible for ensuring and certifying health and quality of agricultural production) and MP (Ministers of Parlament) on the boards of Chamelecon (this is a city)remains of animals that were being used for making flour."

This is what is under the caption:
"He added that the consumption of such food is not suitable for animals, especially cows and pigs, taking into account that these meats are traded in large quantities at the national level and may cause health problems to consumers."

I suppose the idea is that animals are being used for making animal feed? Not surprising, it's how many diseases are passed around. It's why I go to local farmers where you can see what's being used. Even then you have to wonder. Pretty sad state of affairs.
Whats interesting in this article is that it may be suggesting that people who were part of the government may have been involved - not surprising but interesting. Wish I understood spanish.


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## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

thegoodstuff said:


> Its easy for some folks to say 'you should be feeding your dog better food' when they eat at La Pretentia every night. Some folks are only budgeted for Denny's./CENTER]


I feed raw but can't even afford to eat at Denny's. I couldn't even if I fed kibble.


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## Sapphire-Light (Aug 8, 2010)

SubMariner said:


> Yes, that's a pretty graphic picture. But no one has translated what the caption or the portion of text that is visible means. Or put it into context of this particular thread. All we have is a nasty picture and part of an article. All in Spanish.
> 
> I started out trying to do the "caption" and got this: "after a denunciation, authorities of the Senasa and the MP discovered in the bordos of Chamelecon rest of animal that were being used for the flour elaboration". Ooookay....
> 
> People, please... let's get back to the original thread topic; bearing in mind that this is the DRY & CANNED DOG FOOD SECTION.


ps, I forgot to add a translation to the test, my mistake 

As for the caption the "Chamelecon" is the name of the river in wish they were making the food, what they meant for the flour is about the food they were making as like the commercial cattle/horse feed similar to this one in looks Badminton Horse Feeds launches new Feed 'n' Fibre at Burghley Horse Trials | Latest Horse News | Your Horse



KittyKat said:


> Using some google fu:
> 
> Caption: "Following a complaint, authorities discovered Senasa (Agency responsible for ensuring and certifying health and quality of agricultural production) and MP (Ministers of Parlament) on the boards of Chamelecon (this is a city)remains of animals that were being used for making flour."
> 
> ...


You did a very close translation, wit the "MP" is the "ministerio publico" that is the public ministry (of lawyers ) 

And yes, they were using this to feed the animals meant for human consumption, most of the farmers use traditional grass feed, but they are using the commercial feed/kibble for times like pregnancy, low weight and diseases.

What is sad is that since a couple of years ago there's a new plage wit the cattle called "vacas flacas" (skinny cows) that is when an animal suddenly gets very skinny , refuses to stand on foot and dies in a few days even if it has food available, many farmers lost a lot of animals last year.

But when you find the fact that they are using meat (including of their own species) to feed a herbivore is not surprising they are getting sick and dying.


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## thegoodstuff (May 12, 2010)

xellil said:


> I agree with everything you say except this. There are people on a very low budget feeding their dogs raw. It may take a little more creativity to find meat for great prices, and maybe the dogs aren't getting prime rib and rabbit every day, but it's not only rich people who can afford it. Many people feed raw alot cheaper than they could feed dry.


How??

____________________________________________________________

I just realized my 'La Pretentia' reference lost something in the translation. I didnt mean the people were rich, I meant the _dogs_ were being fed as if _they_ ate at a fancy restaurant .




InkedMarie said:


> I have found that I definitely feed less of a higher quality food. Suggestions would be to look at Nutrisca, Nutrisource, Annamaet, Earthborn. All have grainfree and grain inclusive formulas.


Annamaet Grain-Free Manitok Red Meat Formula Dry -	30 lb. - $81.99 -*2.73/l*b - Protein 30% Lamb Meal, Potato, Catfish Meal, Field Peas, Tapioca
Nutrisca LAMB AND CHICKPEA - 28 lb. - $50.00 - *1.78/lb* - Protein 30% Lamb,Lamb Meal,Peas,Menhaden Fish Meal,Flaxseed,
Nutrisca CHICKEN AND CHICKPEA RECIPE - 28 lb. - $60.99 - *2.17/lb* - Protein 32% Chicken,Chicken Meal,Peas,Chickpeas,Menhaden Fish Meal
Earthborn Coastal Catch - 28 lb. - $44.00 - *$1.57/lb*- Protein 32% Herring Meal, Potatoes, Peas, Canola Oil, Pea Protein,
All + shipping

Nutrisource Grain Free Large Breed Chicken Adult Dog -30 lb. -$53.00 *w shipping* (Amazon)- *$1.76/lb* - Protein 23% Chicken, chicken meal, pea starch, peas, pea flour. They say 2 cups a day for a 60 lb dog. Thats less than 9 oz of food a day! He eats 36 oz/day now. Thats gotta hurt.

Daily now: 1 can Trader Joe's L&R -22oz and 2 scoops Kirkland L&R - 14oz = $55/month
Nutrisource Lrg brd chkn @2 cups/day = $29/month, @3 cups/day = $43/month


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## Makovach (Jan 24, 2012)

thegoodstuff said:


> "good" dry food can cost up to 50% more than, say, Kirkland food. Its easy for some folks to say 'you should be feeding your dog better food' when they eat at La Pretentia every night. Some folks are only budgeted for Denny's.


Denny's isn't even in my budget! I'm on a ramen noodles every other night type budget.

I feed my three boxers PMR. On average, it cost me about $0.70 per dog a day. Its not something that is expensive or you have to have a lot of money to do. You just have to be willing to take the time and look around and work for it. 

When I was feeding kibble (TOTW, Earthborn, Orijen, Wellness ect) my dogs were costing me about $200 if not more a month to feed. And that was only with two of them. Now I have three again. I couldn't imagine how much it would cost. With raw, I went out and got an order for about $110, it was about 190lbs. That will last my dogs for 1.5-2 months! 

I'm not saying you need to switch to raw because its the better option, because I don't believe in pushing it on people, but I do think you need to reconsider your kibble choice. Just because it is cheaper, doesn't mean it is still okay even though your dog was not affected by the food recall IMO. I would not feed something from an untrustworthy company- And Diamond has proved itself to be just that. 

I would suggest looking into getting something else. I know Mr.chewy.com has free shipping on anything over $49. A 29.7lb bag of Orijen Adult is only $67.99 (Free next day shipping). My manager feeds her 85lb bulldog/boxer mix only 2/3 of a cup a day. A 15lb bag lasts her dog for one month. Another manager feeds her chihuahua 7 pieces of kibble and her Australian shepherd (about 50lbs) 1/4 cup per day. Some foods may be more expensive by the bag, but over the course of 2-3 months, it ends up being cheaper. 
http://www.mrchewy.com/orijen-adult-dog-food/dp/29726

A few others I would recommend
http://www.mrchewy.com/b/dog-food/acana
http://www.mrchewy.com/b/dog-food/adult,california-natural,dog,grain-free
http://www.mrchewy.com/b/dog-food/adult,dog,fromm,grain-free
http://www.mrchewy.com/b/dog-food/evo,grain-free


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

thegoodstuff said:


> How??
> 
> ____________________________________________________________
> 
> I just realized my 'La Pretentia' reference lost something in the translation. I didnt mean the people were rich, I meant the _dogs_ were being fed as if _they_ ate at a fancy restaurant .


Advertise for meat on craigslist. Get scraps from a butcher or slaughterhouse. Etc. etc. 

Personally, the meat for me is not cheaper but the vet bills are. I figured it up - in the eight months before we started raw I spend $24,000 on medical issues for both dogs. In the year since then, the only vet bills I've had are maintence stuff and when Snorkels eats something like venison ribs.

I don't really consider my dogs eating as if they were at a fancy restaurant. I consider giving them the food they were born to eat, and not Cheerios and macaroni and cheese every day.


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## thegoodstuff (May 12, 2010)

xellil said:


> Advertise for meat on craigslist. Get scraps from a butcher or slaughterhouse. Etc. etc.
> 
> I don't really consider my dogs eating as if they were at a fancy restaurant. I consider giving them the food they were born to eat, and not Cheerios and macaroni and cheese every day.


That was just an analogy to make a point. What types respond on Craigs list, my first thought was about trusting what you get.

I never thought of Cheerios and macaroni. Hmm...


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

:usa::usa::usa::usa::usa::usa:


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## tem_sat (Jun 20, 2010)

thegoodstuff said:


> How??


Let's say I fed Kirkland every day for one year. I imagine my total annual food bill for my 12lb Doxie would be about $50.00, which is close ($50-$75) to what I spend on PMR. My vet bill would be $250 for that year, as I can flat out guarantee that I would need to book a dental for him. Now, if I decided to do a bit of a combo, one day Kirkland and one day turkey necks, or pork ribs, etc. That *might* do the trick and eliminate the dental.

Don't rule out trying a combo if it can save you money on vet bills down the line.


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## bett (Mar 15, 2012)

skip the kirkland and try another.


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## thegoodstuff (May 12, 2010)

My memory is shot. If I had body parts that screwed on, I'd the leave the house with out them. 

When Nicky stopped eating last summer when Java's time came, I tried a bunch of things to get him to start eating. The winning combo was Trader Joe's canned lamb and rice, and chopped apples, no kibble, so I stuck with it. Then this past February and March when he was sick with the liver thing (still a mystery) he lost almost 15% of his body weight. He wasnt putting the weight on so I started adding the kibble again. Over about 2 months he was back at his usual 62 or 63 lbs or so. Just in the last couple of days, he hit 65 - 66, too much. So no mo kibble, just the TJ's and the green beans and watch his weight. So that takes the pressure off on making a change immediately. I was really starting to pull my hair out about the best route to go. There are 11 days of TJ's left. In a tizzy yesterday, I bought a bag of Nutrisource grainless large breed lamb meal before I got home and weighed him again. Its returnable if necessary.

There is so much conflicting information not to mention the untruthful promotion & advertizing. For example, carbs:

Unlike cats, which need high amounts of protein and no carbohydrates at all, dogs need a diet that contains as much as 50 percent carbohydrates.

The National Research Council (NRC), which sets the standard for nutritional needs of dogs, does not list a carbohydrate requirement.

If the food contains oats or oatmeal, add 1 point.

but grains like oats, flour and wheat have almost no nutritional value for them.











Regardless of accuracy, this is what one finds when one tries to educate one's self.



What did Rin Tin Tin eat? (before there was a dog food commercial industrial complex)


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## Midnight (Jul 4, 2011)

*Oh, this is just horrible.....*



meggels said:


> FDA releases report on Diamond Pet Foods
> 
> 
> Yuck yuck yuck


....and to think I had a large bag of "Diamond" made "Kirland" brand dog food for Midnight. No wonder I was willing to throw out the 1/3 to 1/2 bag that was left. I have my little guy on AvoDerm right now but want to try "Bil Jac" for variety sake and price. All the quality brands are priced within $1 or $2 of each other but AvoDerm is 4 lbs whereas Bil Jac is 6 lbs.


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## Celt (Dec 27, 2010)

I read, somewhere, that before kibble, one food prepared for dogs was to boil a animal's head (usually sheep) until the flesh fell off, then strain out the bones, add some oatmeal (or other crushed/rolled grain) to form a stew. Before that it was whatevere scraps (with preference for meat) that were available. I know "ranchers", on some farms, would feed the dogs off of anything not used by them when they butchered animals, stillbirths/young death animals, castration pieces, "excess" milk and eggs, and of course any leftover/scraps they had "laying around".


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## thegoodstuff (May 12, 2010)

Celt said:


> I read, somewhere, that before kibble, one food prepared for dogs was to boil a animal's head (usually sheep) until the flesh fell off, then strain out the bones, add some oatmeal (or other crushed/rolled grain) to form a stew. Before that it was whatevere scraps (with preference for meat) that were available. I know "ranchers", on some farms, would feed the dogs off of anything not used by them when they butchered animals, stillbirths/young death animals, castration pieces, "excess" milk and eggs, and of course any leftover/scraps they had "laying around".


Hmmm sounds yummy. Save me some.


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## thegoodstuff (May 12, 2010)

Salmonella Outbreak Linked to Dog Food Has Sickened 22 in 13 States 

BTW, I had a couple pounds of the Kirkland L&R left at the bottom of the bin since I stopped using it. I found the receipt from April and took it back to Costco today, full refund, no questions asked.


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## bett (Mar 15, 2012)

thegoodstuff said:


> The woman at Costco said that they did an internal investigation. The Kirkland food is made in a completely different area of the Diamond plant and none of the Kirkland was actually infected. Thats why it is still on the shelves. She said it can be returned for a refund even without the bag and even if most of it was gone already. She said the receipt was not required.
> 
> The bag I bought since the recall I got in the first week of April. There is only 25% or less left. I mix it with wet food with my hands twice a day. So at this point in light of what she said and since neither I or Nicky have gotten sick, I wonder if there is any point returning it, plus I wouldnt want to abruptly change his food if I didnt have to.


so not true. my 3 labs got sick and my oldest now is in liver failure. diamond finally turned my case over to their insurance company, who i now deal directly with.
what does that tell ya?


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## thegoodstuff (May 12, 2010)

bett said:


> so not true. my 3 labs got sick and my oldest now is in liver failure. diamond finally turned my case over to their insurance company, who i now deal directly with.
> what does that tell ya?


That, big surprise, people suck. "I can tell youre lying, your mouth is moving."

--------------------------------------------------------

Did they just roll over or did you have to hammer them? What has the insurance co done?


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