# Would any kibble work?



## meggels (May 30, 2010)

Part of me really wants to just say "screw it" and go back to kibble with Murph. 

I know that if I save up and get a chest freezer, and buy in bulk, I will save a bit of money (I spend around 60 a month on Murph's premade raw right now). 

But buying in bulk will also mean I have to separate and portion things out (which I don't have to do now). I know, lazy of me, but it is what it is.

I'm scared to undo the progress he's made (lack of ear infections, shiny beautiful coat that was coarse and dull before), but part of me thinks it might not be undone if I do the right high quality kibble.

What kibble would you suggest that is lowest carb possible and would be good for a dog like Murph? Or should I just suck it up and stay on the raw?


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## Javadoo (May 23, 2011)

EVO Herring & Salmon.

I believe it is one of, if not THE lowest carb premium type food on the market.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

I like that the Evo is potato free.

Only thing I worry about is the P&G thing :-/


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## skadoosh (Jun 11, 2012)

meggels said:


> Part of me really wants to just say "screw it" and go back to kibble with Murph.
> 
> I know that if I save up and get a chest freezer, and buy in bulk, I will save a bit of money (I spend around 60 a month on Murph's premade raw right now).
> 
> ...


May I ask why you don't want to continue with raw? I'm not asking to be judgemental, I am truly curious!


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

Honestly, cost of premade is a bit much, and I like the convenience of kibble.


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## BearMurphy (Feb 29, 2012)

i can't deny that feeding raw takes some time to portion out especially since it might be hard to keep 5 lbs in the fridge before going bad since murph is little, but you can easily do it cheaper than $60/month.

why don't you do claudia's beef/tripe/organ blend and some bone in chicken from the grocery store? if you do the math you might find you need a tad more organs but that should be pretty easy to do and you don't have to buy organs in bulk either because you won't need alot. i was able to fit a bunch of those BTO tubes in my regular freezer before I bought a standalone and you can buy chicken when it's on sale which is all the time.


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## skadoosh (Jun 11, 2012)

meggels said:


> Honestly, cost of premade is a bit much, and I like the convenience of kibble.


I sympathize. I really like kibble. Pour and go lol. I do pre-made too, anything else I feel would be overwhelming...


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

I think you should do whats best for Murphy.

If his health is poor on kibble then you either let it get worse or do the right thing and give up a little bit of your lifestyle to help your dog that YOU brought into your life. He didn't ask to have allergies, and other isssues, its up to you to make him as comfortable as possible. If you can't do that, I would rehome him. 

I hope you can find something that works best for both of you, but please do not sacrafice his health for your convienience.


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## skadoosh (Jun 11, 2012)

Sprocket said:


> I think you should do whats best for Murphy.
> 
> If his health is poor on kibble then you either let it get worse or do the right thing and give up a little bit of your lifestyle to help your dog that YOU brought into your life. He didn't ask to have allergies, and other isssues, its up to you to make him as comfortable as possible. If you can't do that, I would rehome him.
> 
> I hope you can find something that works best for both of you, but please do not sacrafice his health for your convienience.


I'm sorry but saying that she should re-home him is a bit of an extreme statement...


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

skadoosh said:


> I'm sorry but saying that she should re-home him is a bit of an extreme statement...


No its not at all.

If an owner cannot take care of their dogs issues due to laziness, then the dog should not be their dog. 

Its called neglect.


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

skadoosh said:


> I'm sorry but saying that she should re-home him is a bit of an extreme statement...


You have to understand, this poster has gone back and forth with raw and kibble with her dog for over a year and a half and it's not fair to the dog to keep upsetting his system on the whim of his owner. JMO


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## chowder (Sep 7, 2008)

Why does it have to be kibble? Go for all meat canned food or do half-raw and half all meat canned food. Skip the kibble entirely. 

Most of the 95% to 100% all meat canned foods are carb free and are just meat, bones, and organs with vitamins so you can mix them with raw and pre-made raw 50/50. Or just give him entirely canned since he is a small guy and supplement with raw meaty bones. If you get the canned by the case with coupons, they should only run you around $1.10 - $2 a can (13 ounces) depending on how exotic a protein you go into.


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## SaharaNight Boxers (Jun 28, 2011)

Before this gets kinda out of hand, I just want to make the suggestion of trying a different premade. I can feed a 75 lb Boxer with BRB for around $50 a month. It's all meat and all under $1.75 a pound at least where I am. Also, if you want convenience you could always do something like Grandma Lucy's or Honest Kitchen. I don't know how much Ziwipeak would be for a dog Murphy's size, but that could be an option too.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

Lol, I am not rehoming him. I WOULD do what's best for him and if that meant FURTHER cutting costs out of my lifestyle, than that would be what happened. He has been on raw for over six months now I'd guess, and it has helped (except for his paws, they still itch him...). 

Anyone who knows me well, knows that my dogs are my whole life and I do pretty much anything and everything for them. I pay for Abbie's kibble which is another expense (one of many) when I could feed her Natural Balance for free, because Natural balance just doesn't work for her, and I want a better kibble for her. I live paycheck to paycheck, which I hope will end soon with my job search, but my finances are very tight and I only have a certain amount budgeted for each month with NO wiggle room. Heck, I have been looking into saving up the extra money i do get each week and buying a chest freezer, for my dogs. When there are plenty of things I could sure use, like some shorts for the summer. But my dogs come first. 

So really, there's no need to start throwing around silly and ignorant statements about rehoming my dog cause it'd be neglect. If I ever were to switch him back to a kibble, and it was not working, then he would go right back to premade raw


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

whiteleo said:


> You have to understand, this poster has gone back and forth with raw and kibble with her dog for over a year and a half and it's not fair to the dog to keep upsetting his system on the whim of his owner. JMO



I have talked about it, but Murph has only been switched onto raw, and then taken off *once* and like I said, he's been back on it for at least six months now. Please don't make it sound like I'm switching his diet every few weeks when that is not the case.


If you guys don't have anything constructive to add to this thread (ABOUT KIBBLE) then please go elsewhere.


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

I'm just thinking about Murph...And I do have lot's of constructive things to say but off to work I go to give my dogs the lifestyle they are accustomed to..


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

whiteleo said:


> I'm just thinking about Murph...And I do have lot's of constructive things to say but off to work I go to give my dogs the lifestyle they are accustomed to..


Thank you Robin, I know you do care about Murph. 

Lol, I'm at work currently, so I can give Abbie and Murph the lifestyle they are accustomed to  I say that all the time, I work for THEM to have nice things HAHA


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

My post was not silly or ignorant. Your many threads about flip flopping are rediculous. 

I really hope you do the best by Murphy. 

Heck, with the time it takes to make these posts and reply, you could have already portioned his meals for a few months :smile:


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

Uh yes, suggesting I should consider rehoming Murph because of this thread, is silly and jumping the gun to the extreme.

If you don't like the threads I start, then just don't read them Emily. Easy as that. 

People, including myself, thought you feeling the need to post your dogs balls on here was ridiculous, but I just kept my mouth shut on that thread.


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## PDXdogmom (Jun 30, 2010)

I suggest taking a look at Earthborn Coastal Catch: Coastal Catch : Earthborn Holistic Pet Food

It has 32% protein and 18% fat; uses potatoes, peas and tapioca as the carbs; and has herring meal as the primary meat source - a healthier choice than the all salmon formulas which are farmed salmon.

It is made by a company with no history of recalls and is a decent value. I just bought a 28 lb. bag for $47.99. Both my golden who easily gets hot spots and itching and my lab who has a chicken intolerance are doing great on this kibble. I do frequently add some fresh foods.


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## SaharaNight Boxers (Jun 28, 2011)

Would you consider dehydrated then? Same concept; scoop, pour, float.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

I would, but from what I've seen, I think it would probably cost about the same as premade...


I am going to do some calculating and seeing if buying Vital Essentials and some chicken necks in bulk will help cut costs a little bit but still be something that works for Murph and I'm comfortable with.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

Anywho, the main point of this thread was suggestions on what kibble would be good for Murph.

I'm thinking that low carb would be best, so that would narrow it down to Orijen, Instinct, Evo and Back to Basics.


PDX- I am a big big fan of Earthborn. My hound mix is eating the Great Plains Feast right now and doing amazing. I used to work for them actually lol.


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

meggels said:


> Uh yes, suggesting I should consider rehoming Murph because of this thread, is silly and jumping the gun to the extreme.


*I was not suggesting you rehome Murphy because of this thread. I was suggesting you rehome him if you cannot handle having a dog with such extreme issues. He deserves someone who is willing to sacrafice EVERYTHING to make sure he is comfortable. All you talk about is your laziness and YOUR life style. Owning a dog requires you to make adjustments. Stop talking about YOUR issues and concentrate on what is best for Murphy. Then I am sure we will believe that you are the right owner for him.

Right now I just feel sorry for him and I'm not the only one.*



meggels said:


> If you don't like the threads I start, then just don't read them Emily. Easy as that.
> 
> People, including myself, thought you feeling the need to post your dogs balls on here was ridiculous, but I just kept my mouth shut on that thread.


*
Good, I am glad you didn't post. I honestly don't care what anyone thinks about that thread. It was a joke.*


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

Oh give me a break lol.

that dog lives like a king. I spend so much money on Abbie and Murph it's actually probably not the smartest thing.


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

meggels said:


> Oh give me a break lol.
> 
> that dog lives like a king. I spend so much money on Abbie and Murph it's actually probably not the smartest thing.


I have no doubt you do. I just hope you keep him on a diet that is best for him even if it means you have to tighten your belt in a few places. 

I definitely recommend saving up, buying a small freezer and feeding PMR. I hardly spend any money on food. The first items I have bought in a few months were the tripe and lung I got yesterday. I spend 2 minutes a day putting the right stuff in each bowl. I defrost things a few times a week and keep the defrosted stuff in tupperwares in the fridge. Its so easy and CHEAP! I could NEVER feed PMR if I fed premades.

I wouldn't even have been able to get a 3rd dog if I fed kibble or premades. PMR is just so cheap for me.


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## DaViking (Sep 27, 2011)

@meggels; Sorry if I haven't been paying enough attention but could you list Murph's issues and what formulas he ate when you had him on kibble? I am torn since he does well at the moment, maybe Chowder got the best suggestion so far. At the end of the day it's your call and no anonymous nicks on internet have the right to question your situation and decision. Try to look away from the judgmental and elitist preaching from some here.


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## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

Seriously guys, c'mon. This forum is for giving advice, not shooting down members for food suggestions... you might not agree with feeding kibble and that's fine, but this IS the dry section and people should be able to post without being attacked or belittled.

That being said, I personally would try to keep him on raw since he is doing well, you could even just purchase two kinds of meat a week and never freeze or portion anything but organs. I'm sure others will have kibble suggestions.


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

Caty M said:


> Seriously guys, c'mon. This forum is for giving advice, not shooting down members for food suggestions... you might not agree with feeding kibble and that's fine, but this IS the dry section and people should be able to post without being attacked or belittled.
> 
> That being said, I personally would try to keep him on raw since he is doing well, you could even just purchase two kinds of meat a week and never freeze or portion anything but organs. I'm sure others will have kibble suggestions.


I wasn't trying to shoot any suggestions down or belittle anyone.

FWIW - I do think high quality kibble is fine for some dogs. Murph is not one of those dogs, however.


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## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

Sprocket said:


> I wasn't trying to shoot any suggestions down or belittle anyone.
> 
> FWIW - I do think high quality kibble is fine for some dogs. Murph is not one of those dogs, however.




Suggesting someone rehome their dog because they are considering kibble? Yeah. Anyway, back on topic...


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

Caty M said:


> Suggesting someone rehome their dog because they are considering kibble? Yeah. Anyway, back on topic...


It has nothing to do with feeding kibble. It had to do with his health issues and what is best for him...

Does that make sense?


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## SaharaNight Boxers (Jun 28, 2011)

I have to admit I only trust Champion Pet Foods and Fromm at this point. I definitley like Orijen the best. I dont feel like Fromm has enough meat and i dont like potatoes and that sort of thing. I used to feel like Orijen was gimmicky, but now I like it. I still feel like Fromm is gimmicky. like Back to Basics, but some people have said they found garbage in their food-eww. I like Go! until I four out they source from China. 

I don't suggest Blue. Duke's on Wilderness Salmon right now and he's lost hair and muscle tone. His ears cleared up though.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

meggels said:


> Part of me really wants to just say "screw it" and go back to kibble with Murph.
> 
> I know that if I save up and get a chest freezer, and buy in bulk, I will save a bit of money (I spend around 60 a month on Murph's premade raw right now).
> 
> ...


You say you know what you need to do but are too lazy to do it.

At least you admit that you put your own needs ahead of your dog's.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

Anyways...

Got him a 20lb box of beef bits, ends and pieces. This should cut costs a little bit.












Now, he owns all the freezer space


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## catahoulamom (Sep 23, 2010)

I don't think it fair to tell her to rehome her dog because she doesn't want to feed PMR/raw. Murphy's health problems aren't life threatening that I know of, maybe his quality of life would be a little higher if he was on raw because he'd be itching a little less, but it is true that there is more than one way to feed a dog (all of you raw feeders know how passionate I am about feeding my animals PMR but to accuse her of neglect when there are so many animals out there TRUELY suffering from neglect and abuse isn't fair or necessary). Meg, do the best that you can do, if you truely believe premade raw is the best for him I'd try to make expense cuts elsewhere so you can continue to feed him that way. I also suggested on Facebook that you supplement with chicken necks, hearts, etc to stretch the premade out and lower the cost. 

If you want to go back to kibble, well, Im not sure which is the lowest in carbs but I agree with the above, I only trust fromm and champion. My dogs did really great on Acana kibble. I also like chowders suggestion of adding canned meats to his raw diet, if you order online and take advantage of sales you can get it for quite cheap. Ask Rachel about that... She's a pro when it comes to getting a good deal on cans!


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

Thanks Julie, the bits ends and pieces is a dollar cheaper per lb than the nw naturals, and I can pick up some chicken necks and other things for cheaper too.

I compromise and sacrifice a lot in my life for my dogs and do for them the best I can, and I know that, as do the people that know me well. That's all that really matters.


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## skadoosh (Jun 11, 2012)

catahoulamom said:


> I don't think it fair to tell her to rehome her dog because she doesn't want to feed PMR/raw. Murphy's health problems aren't life threatening that I know of, maybe his quality of life would be a little higher if he was on raw because he'd be itching a little less, but it is true that there is more than one way to feed a dog (all of you raw feeders know how passionate I am about feeding my animals PMR but to accuse her of neglect when there are so many animals out there TRUELY suffering from neglect and abuse isn't fair or necessary). Meg, do the best that you can do, if you truely believe premade raw is the best for him I'd try to make expense cuts elsewhere so you can continue to feed him that way. I also suggested on Facebook that you supplement with chicken necks, hearts, etc to stretch the premade out and lower the cost.
> 
> If you want to go back to kibble, well, Im not sure which is the lowest in carbs but I agree with the above, I only trust fromm and champion. My dogs did really great on Acana kibble. I also like chowders suggestion of adding canned meats to his raw diet, if you order online and take advantage of sales you can get it for quite cheap. Ask Rachel about that... She's a pro when it comes to getting a good deal on cans!


^^^ this is SO true. It is absolutely unnecessary to tell someone that they should re-home their dogs simply because they can't afford or dont feel like feeding a specific diet. 
At least that dog has a home! Ok so she re-homes the dog. Tell me what the likelihood of this dog going to a home that feeds PMR?? There are enough unwanted dogs and cats in this world (I would know.... I've fostered over 200 of them), i would rather they go to a home that feeds ol Roy then be in a kennel or cage waiting for a home for months (years) or in the worst case scenario- euthanized! 
I guess I had better re-home my cat too! I feed him Medi-Cal Gastro (by Royal Canin) because he has severe constipation issues and this is what keeps him pooping regularly. I guess millions more people should re-home their pets! 
That, IMO, was an ignorant and over done statement.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

skadoosh said:


> ^^^ this is SO true. It is absolutely unnecessary to tell someone that they should re-home their dogs simply because they can't afford or dont feel like feeding a specific diet.
> At least that dog has a home! Ok so she re-homes the dog. Tell me what the likelihood of this dog going to a home that feeds PMR?? There are enough unwanted dogs and cats in this world (I would know.... I've fostered over 200 of them), i would rather they go to a home that feeds ol Roy then be in a kennel or cage waiting for a home for months (years) or in the worst case scenario- euthanized!
> I guess I had better re-home my cat too! I feed him Medi-Cal Gastro (by Royal Canin) because he has severe constipation issues and this is what keeps him pooping regularly. I guess millions more people should re-home their pets!
> That, IMO, was an ignorant and over done statement.


Sprocket wasn't saying she should re-home him because he doesn't eat PMR. Go back and read her statement. 

Good Lord.


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

It's not about feeding PMR or Premade. It's about feeding him a diet that keeps him comfortable. Keeps his allergies at bay so he can breathe!

Why would you (anyone) not want the best for the dog?


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

xellil said:


> Sprocket wasn't saying she should re-home him because he doesn't eat PMR. Go back and read her statement.
> 
> Good Lord.



Thanks Nikie. That's what I've been tryin to say but apparently people cant read.


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## skadoosh (Jun 11, 2012)

Sprocket said:


> Thanks Nikie. That's what I've been tryin to say but apparently people cant read.


No no no no. You are acting like shes the worst dog owner that has ever existed. Now I don't know her and perhaps she's crazy and beats her dogs but joining a bloody dog food forum doesnt really indicate that. So. Let her feed her dogs what she will. It is literally no skin off of your ass. 
Its not like she is asking you to do the same.
When you see a dog *in person* that is truly "neglected" then we can talk.


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## Unosmom (May 3, 2009)

you can always feed kibble that works for him and supplement with raw, or do 50/50. Try horizon legacy, its low carb and low glycemic, comes in chicken and fish formulas.


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## skadoosh (Jun 11, 2012)

I would recommend Acana, Orijen, and Horizon Legacy (all Canadian  they are all pretty good foods! I've also heard Ziwipeak is good but then if your issue is financial then this would not be a good choice as it can be VERY expensive.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

Okay...

The biggest changes that occurred on raw were 1) no more ear infections and 2) brighter softer and shinier coat. His breathing or lack of does not relate to kibble. I actually just had him at the vet a month ago bc he seemed snuffly and a week of Benadryl and steamy bathroom time didnt touch it. 

If I were to ever switch him back to a kibble it would need to be very low carb, and, if an ear infection did pop up, back on premade he would go,no questions asked. I wouldn't make him "suffer" on a kibble. 

As I said a little while ago, I just bought him 20lbs of vital essential tonight which is 99% meat bone and organ, so a switch to kibble is not happening right now, and since it was in bulk, I saved some money.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

skadoosh said:


> No no no no. You are acting like shes the worst dog owner that has ever existed. Now I don't know her and perhaps she's crazy and beats her dogs but joining a bloody dog food forum doesnt really indicate that. So. Let her feed her dogs what she will. It is literally no skin off of your ass.
> Its not like she is asking you to do the same.
> When you see a dog *in person* that is truly "neglected" then we can talk.


Meg's dog can't breathe. It could be allergies or it could be the fact that his nostrils are pinhole size. He doesn't like to exercise and normally dogs that don't like to run, can't. They are not just lazy.

Meg paid $2500 for this dog and can't afford shorts? Then pay less for the dog and have more money to make sure he can breathe properly. If that means different food, then it should mean different food. If it means an operation, then get it.

Meg has been on and off, on and off, for months. She changes her mind every five minutes. She knows she should be doing something about Murphy's problems but she can't/won't. She medicated him with stuff like Benadryl hoping that will help.

Maybe it's raw. Maybe it's not. But you've been a member here since this month. You see this go on and on and on for months and maybe you'd think differently. Murphy needs something so he can breathe correctly.

There. Does that explain it, since you know everything after seeing one post?


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

Wow, you sure know everything about someone ELSE'S life dont you Nikie! [Insults removed by CorgiPaws]

My dog CAN breathe, he was suffering from allergies, and IS BETTER NOW. My dogs nares are not the size of pinholes, his nostrils are moderate for the breed, which have less than normal nares to begin with. After getting opinions from several people, his nostrils are certainly not something worth being put under anesthesia for, which is risky to a frenchie to begin with. But thank you for your expert opinion on a breed you know nothing about! Next time I have a medical issue with one of my dogs, especially Murph, I'll be sure to come to you because you are obviously more knowledgeable than my vet.

He is a french BULLDOG. Many bulldogs are in fact, lazy, and don't like to exercise more than a little stroll. Some do, some don't. I've seen it run the gamet. But I would think soemone who is a bulldog expert would know that already...



But please Nikie, having never met my dog in person, please tell me MORE about my dog that I don't know!!!! Or do the world a favor and get a fucking hobby and stop being such a nasty old bitch who bullies people on an internet forum.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

All I go on is what you say Meg. And that's not what you said after your visit to the vet. And what people said after you posted a photo. Most of them said his nostrils are tiny. And you yourself said the vet said he might need surgery.

And that he refuses to exercise. And that he is "sad." And that his nose is stuffy all the time. Etc etc etc.

And you feed this, and that, and say you know raw will help and yet you don't do it. And that you're going to switch Abby and you never do.

If you don't want me commenting on your life, don't post about it.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

Or just don't comment on it? There are several people's lives here who I don't comment about because I simply have nothing constructive or nice to say. But since you and a few others seem to get some sort of weird kick out of being nasty on internet forums, and judging people like you are far superior, I guess that's a hard rule to follow. It's pretty sad to think that people just shouldn't post about their lives/pets in this forum because they have to worry about a small group of people being nasty to them. What's the point of this forum if you don't share and ask questions? Might as well close it down if we have to worry about people always using our obstacles in our pets lives (or even our own) against us.

The vet DID say he might need surgery, and I got several other opinions, and the consensus was, do not do a surgery right now. Maybe if he's under for something else, but not just this sole thing.

I've never said his nose is stuffy all the time. It was stuffy when I brought him. It's never BEEN stuffy all the time.

I know raw will help him anbd that is why I have been doing it for a good six months now.


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## skadoosh (Jun 11, 2012)

xellil said:


> Meg's dog can't breathe. It could be allergies or it could be the fact that his nostrils are pinhole size. He doesn't like to exercise and normally dogs that don't like to run, can't. They are not just lazy.
> 
> Meg paid $2500 for this dog and can't afford shorts? Then pay less for the dog and have more money to make sure he can breathe properly. If that means different food, then it should mean different food. If it means an operation, then get it.
> 
> ...


That may be the situation. I'm not talking about breathing and no I was not aware of that issue.
I'm just saying dont call a switch in diet neglect and calling for her to re-home the pet. Give her advice (which may or may not have already been done). Assist her in her choices or you will chase her away completely (which would not be helping her dog).


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## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

meggels said:


> Part of me really wants to just say "screw it" and go back to kibble with Murph.
> 
> I know that if I save up and get a chest freezer, and buy in bulk, I will save a bit of money (I spend around 60 a month on Murph's premade raw right now).
> 
> ...


You already know how I feel but since I can say it here again, I will!  


Having said that, I see this thread going in a nasty direction and name calling doesn't look good on anyone. This IS a public forum. This IS the internet. When you post something on the internet you are going to hear things you don't like. 

There really is no reason to fight. It's the internet.


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

Closing thread.

Let's act like adults, no? Not feeding raw doesn't make someone a bad dog owner. And breathing issues are generally anatomy related. Oy.

I must say I'm really disappointed in the behavior going on in this thread. Let's work on talking constructively, and not jumping down people's throats. It looks pretty petty on all sides. These are the kinds of threads that run people off- people with dogs who need help. And then we can't help them. It's such a shame, too.


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