# Tired of the kibble merry go round.....



## CrazyZane (Apr 14, 2013)

I'm so frustrated w/ this kibble merry go round. My last dog Gunner (German Shepherd) NEVER had any problems w/ kibble but for some reason I can't find a kibble that agrees with Zane!!?

At 9 weeks I started out feeding Zane TOTW High Prairie Puppy. He did well, firm stools BUT he had large stool volumes. After reading up more on kibble I wanted to get away with Diamond so when that bag was finished I tried Earthborn Meadow Feast.

He did well on EB, firm stools, much smalled stool volume but within 2 weeks his coat got very dry and hard to the touch and he developed eye sleepies. 

I tried Dr. Tim's Kinesis. He did well on that too at first. Firm stools, small stool volume but he needed to gain a little weight so I upped his feeding from 3/4-3x a day to 1c. Well as soon as I did that he started getting soft stools. They were formed but it left residue all over the grass. Dr. Tim agreed that something didn't agree w/ Zane.

So I put Zane on a rice and chicken / ground beef diet for a week until the new food arrived. His stools firmed right up and he went poop once a day in the morning right after breakfeast. The new food arrived, Annamaet Ultra, and I added a little in with his rice and he did ok. But once I switched over to 100% Ultra he had large stool volumes and was going poop 3-4 times a day!!?? Today he's already pooped 3 times and he's only eaten once today!

Zane is very active so I've been trying to find a high calorie kibble but still no luck. I took a stool sample several weeks ago to my Vet and it came back clean so there's no bacterial issues. Knowing Zane does well on chicken and rice I wish I could just feed that but I know he won't get enough nutrients. I would really love to feed raw but I don't have the time nor the space to keep extra frozen food. We already have 2 fridges as it is and one more or a deep freezer just isn't feasible.

I'm at a loss! Any other kibble suggestions????? I'm thinking of trying ProPlan next. Maybe these top kibbles are just too much for Zane to handle right now as a puppy?


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## riddick4811 (Nov 2, 2011)

I tried most of those foods for Joey too and none worked. He is also very high energy. I am probably going to go with Pro Plan Sensitive if I can't get the pricing worked out on the Redpaw. 

Joey came to me on Science Diet puppy with pudding poop at 8 weeks. Put him on Native Level 3 Puppy. He did ok, but then all the online retailers stopped carrying it. So I tried Victor Hi Pro Plus and Hi Energy- poop never firmed up. Then we tried Dr. Tims Pursuit- same poop issues. Dr Tims Grain free, same issue. Pro Plan Performance and Annamaet Ultra- poop firmed up, but on hiking/beach days it went back to liquid. Redpaw 32K seemed to fix all those issues. It is fish based. So I am hoping sticking with fish based will help, but I need something with enough calories/fat/protein that I don't have to feed a ton of it. Even on the Redpaw, Joey eats around 5 cups a day and his ribs still show, but he is a Greyhound so that isn't a concern, he just burns up the calories though.


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## CrazyZane (Apr 14, 2013)

riddick4811 said:


> I tried most of those foods for Joey too and none worked. He is also very high energy. I am probably going to go with Pro Plan Sensitive if I can't get the pricing worked out on the Redpaw.
> 
> Joey came to me on Science Diet puppy with pudding poop at 8 weeks. Put him on Native Level 3 Puppy. He did ok, but then all the online retailers stopped carrying it. So I tried Victor Hi Pro Plus and Hi Energy- poop never firmed up. Then we tried Dr. Tims Pursuit- same poop issues. Dr Tims Grain free, same issue. Pro Plan Performance and Annamaet Ultra- poop firmed up, but on hiking/beach days it went back to liquid. Redpaw 32K seemed to fix all those issues. It is fish based. So I am hoping sticking with fish based will help, but I need something with enough calories/fat/protein that I don't have to feed a ton of it. Even on the Redpaw, Joey eats around 5 cups a day and his ribs still show, but he is a Greyhound so that isn't a concern, he just burns up the calories though.



I think I'm going to try a fish based kibble next. I've read good things about Redpaw but wanted to try Dr. Tim's and Annamaet first. I was really hoping the Ultra would work but man he has piles of poop. I can't really cut back because he needs the calories so it's a catch 22. Feed less, loose weight...feed more large piles. I know you can't always judge a kibble strickly on stool volume but most people say if it's large piles it's getting pushed through too soon and not enough is getting absorbed. 

I was thinking of going w/ Proplan SS too because everyone has said their dogs have nice stools and coats on it. But from what I've read online Proplan says it's for adults only? I don't know why. The calcium / phosphate levels are ok and the protein and fat are ok. Maybe because it's fish based? Some people say it's not good to feed puppies fish while others have done it and their pups are just fine.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

I love Annamaet. Murph is on Aqualuk. His stools are great on it, and his coat is nice. His ears are also still good. Abbie is gonna try their Encore next after she finishes this bag of Dr Tim's.

Zane, maybe the Aqualuk or Option would be good for you? You should call annamaet and speak to Rob. He feeds all those active Iditarod dogs so maybe he will have some insight on why the Ultra isn't working and if another formula might work.


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## riddick4811 (Nov 2, 2011)

I think it should be fine for a puppy. Joey is 10 months old now and done most of his upright growing, just got to fill out. I would say he had issue with chicken, but the Redpaw has chicken in it. My Dogo can not have chicken at all no matter how far down the ingredient list. But he is old and does better on low/mid calorie foods. 

I know several other people with high energy puppies having the same issue. It sucks. I am used to dogs that can pretty much eat anything. And now I have 2 sensitive ones. At least the other 4 are pretty flexible! Ronon and Rocky can eat just about anything and have firm poop. I can feed him a different kibble every meal and he has no issue.


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## CrazyZane (Apr 14, 2013)

meggels said:


> I love Annamaet. Murph is on Aqualuk. His stools are great on it, and his coat is nice. His ears are also still good. Abbie is gonna try their Encore next after she finishes this bag of Dr Tim's.
> 
> Zane, maybe the Aqualuk or Option would be good for you? You should call annamaet and speak to Rob. He feeds all those active Iditarod dogs so maybe he will have some insight on why the Ultra isn't working and if another formula might work.


It frustrating because he did great on Dr. Tim's, it's just when I increased it he got loose stools. He started swimming every day so I HAD to increase the amount of food I was feeding because he went from gaining 2.2lbs. per week before swimming to only gaining 1lb. per week. He still a young puppy so he should be gaining 2-3lbs. per week. I'm going to decrease the Ultra from 1c to 3/4 and see if that helps. If not I'll definitely be contacting Annamaet. 





riddick4811 said:


> I think it should be fine for a puppy. Joey is 10 months old now and done most of his upright growing, just got to fill out. I would say he had issue with chicken, but the Redpaw has chicken in it. My Dogo can not have chicken at all no matter how far down the ingredient list. But he is old and does better on low/mid calorie foods.
> 
> I know several other people with high energy puppies having the same issue. It sucks. I am used to dogs that can pretty much eat anything. And now I have 2 sensitive ones. At least the other 4 are pretty flexible! Ronon and Rocky can eat just about anything and have firm poop. I can feed him a different kibble every meal and he has no issue.


I wish Zane could eat any kibble! I'm going to give Ultra a few more weeks. Hopefully it works if not I'll try a fish based kibble or really look into raw even though it's going to be a pain to start up...buying a deep freezer, rearranging my garage to make it fit (too many toys), find a good butcher in my area etc. 

Keep us posted on the price of Redpaw. Depending on what Annamaet says I might give that a shot next if the price goes back down.


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## BeagleCountry (Jan 20, 2012)

Large stool volume and 3-4 times per day pooping may be normal for Zane on any kibble. Adding a quality probiotic and digestive enzymes may help. Although these may be in the food they can be activated while the food is sitting in a hot warehouse. I use Mercola probiotics and digestive enzymes but there are other good brands available. 

Consider a more traditional food such as Victor. Although you may not want to feed a rice based food it may be what he can tolerate to get enough calories to maintain weight. Once grown you can gradually transition of a food you prefer. It is available at Americas Country Store.

Pet Probiotics | Optimal Digestive Health for Pets - Mercola.com
Pet Digestive Enzymes | Pet Digestive Health - Mercola.com
Victor Super Premium Dog Food


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## CrazyZane (Apr 14, 2013)

BeagleCountry said:


> Large stool volume and 3-4 times per day pooping may be normal for Zane on any kibble. Adding a quality probiotic and digestive enzymes may help. Although these may be in the food they can be activated while the food is sitting in a hot warehouse. I use Mercola probiotics and digestive enzymes but there are other good brands available.
> 
> Consider a more traditional food such as Victor. Although you may not want to feed a rice based food it may be what he can tolerate to get enough calories to maintain weight. Once grown you can gradually transition of a food you prefer. It is available at Americas Country Store.
> 
> ...



On no, he only pooped twice a day on EB and Dr. Tim's and his stool volume was small. Now it's probably doubled in volume and he's going 3-4 times a day. He went 3 times this morning before lunch so today is more than normal. I've been using Fortiflora for about 2 months now. I sprinkle a packet over every morning feeding.




I'll check out the links you posted. Thanks!


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

Also....something to think about....pooping 3-4 times per day might just be normal for now, as he IS a puppy. I've never had a puppy that only goes 2 times a day...it's always multiple times, because their systems are still growing and adjusting. 

Just something to think about if you do find a food that gives him good solid stools, it might be that he just goes 3-4 times a day until he matures.


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## Unosmom (May 3, 2009)

Maybe the grain free victor dog food, it seems to be recommended by a lot of people with bird dogs, another option is hi tek naturals grain free. We just brought that into the store as an alternative to Totw and so far the feedback has been pretty good I also highly recommend a product called perfect form by honest kitchen, at least during transition and the first week on being 100% on the new food. It works really well for any types of digestive issues from diarhhea, constipation, gas and chronic problems like gastritis, colitis and IBS.


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## InkedMarie (Sep 9, 2011)

In regards to probiotics, I use dr langers that is human grade, I get it fom Swansons vitamins. It's much cheaper than Mercola and equally as good.


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## 1605 (May 27, 2009)

CrazyZane said:


> I'm so frustrated w/ this kibble merry go round. My last dog Gunner (German Shepherd) NEVER had any problems w/ kibble but for some reason I can't find a kibble that agrees with Zane!!?
> 
> At 9 weeks I started out feeding Zane TOTW High Prairie Puppy. He did well, firm stools BUT he had large stool volumes. After reading up more on kibble I wanted to get away with Diamond so when that bag was finished I tried Earthborn Meadow Feast.
> 
> ...


Both our GSPs are on EVO Turkey/chicken. Cheeney has been on it since before we brought him home at three months of age as we wanted both dogs to be eating the same food. 

They both tolerate it well, are healthy, have beautiful coats, even more energy/stamina in the field, and keep muscle mass/weight on at 10 oz twice a day. "Output" is a fraction of what is was when Zio was on Pro Plan or Exceed.

BTW, we do give them additional protein sources a couple of times a week, esp if they have been out in the field working hard. Things like canned salmon or tuna, chicken, or pork.

FWIW,


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## mytega (Jul 31, 2012)

Have you thought about trying one of Dr. Tim's higher calorie formulas (Pursuit or Momentum)? He could eat a smaller volume of food each day but still get the calories. That should be less to process through his system.


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## doggiedad (Jan 23, 2011)

you've tried 4 different brands. that's nothing. keep trying. i had a dog that didn't do
well on the preminum brands. i fed him Alpo can and some lousy kibble and he did find.


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