# Science Diet - How?



## imported_admin (Jun 16, 2008)

Vets make this dog food out to be gods gift to dogs. From what I hear this food is no better than the stuff you get at Walmart. How can vets actually do this? Am I wrong?


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

No you are absoultely correct. There are a couple of reasons vets do this and I'm not sure which reason is most common. One reason is because most vets sell science diet. They make a profit everytime you buy it. It is a good money maker for them.

The other reason is because of the great marketing department at Hill's. The vet first encounters Hill's promotion/sales people when he enters vet school. He is give lots of free goodies as well as free dog food for his dog for as long as he's in vet school. He attends seminars put on by Hill's employees telling the virtues of their products. They have products that supposedly help animals with various internal problems such as digestive problems, kidney problems, pancreas problems and the vet students are told thes "foods" will help those problems.

Once out of vet school, Hill's reps will call on the vet in his office, reinforcing all the things told to him in vet school. They are given reason after reason to recommend or even "prescribe" Science Diet foods to their patients. Because the vets have had basically no nutritonal training in their lives, they have no reason not to believe these reps.

Most vets have one course in vet school on animal nutrition. This course teaches not only dog and cat nutrition but also nutrition for every pet or farm animal around. A good deal of this course is spent learning how to read the labels on pet foods. The text book used in this course is usually a book written by Hill's and donated to the school by Hills. Hill's also donates a lot of money to vet schools and their presence on campus is very strong. The vets kind of "grow up" with Science Diet in their sight most all day every day.

Hill's has a wonderful promotion department. It has made the company what it is. If you look at the ingredients list on any Science Diet product you will see what low nutritional garbage they put in their food. It's a great testament to our dogs that they can survive on such a diet.


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## bellamicuore (Jun 16, 2008)

Excellent response and right on. I worked at a vet hospital for a while and they constantly pushed this food and made all their employees push it also. They got huge commissions for selling this food. They had contests to get employees to sell more of it. I worked part time as a bather so never really had to concern myself with it (although they expected everyone to be involved in pushing this food). It's a very good and reputable vet that I worked for too.




RawFedDogs said:


> No you are absoultely correct. There are a couple of reasons vets do this and I'm not sure which reason is most common. One reason is because most vets sell science diet. They make a profit everytime you buy it. It is a good money maker for them.
> 
> The other reason is because of the great marketing department at Hill's. The vet first encounters Hill's promotion/sales people when he enters vet school. He is give lots of free goodies as well as free dog food for his dog for as long as he's in vet school. He attends seminars put on by Hill's employees telling the virtues of their products. They have products that supposedly help animals with various internal problems such as digestive problems, kidney problems, pancreas problems and the vet students are told thes "foods" will help those problems.
> 
> ...


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## cattech (Jun 29, 2008)

*In fact you both are mistaken*

Ive been a Certified vet tech for over 10 years. I 've worked in holisitc, exotic, general and specialty practice and have seem the gambit of food marketed for pets. All natural, raw(HUGE mistake) organic as well as your typical grocery food and each of them have a huge marketing presence. I see it all the time in practice when people tell me what they feed and why they feed it. Veterinarians and veterinary technicians have to take an animal nutrition course and hills plays a part in education because they have the SCIENTIFIC PROOF to back nutrional related claims. Despite what you may think, the courses(because we do get continuing education every year) are not"buy science diet" but geared toward the physiological and metabolical processes of nutrition. Regardless, I have seen less issues with clients feeding thier pets science diet ove the past decade than I have these newer all natural, organic foods. They fail to mention the dangerously high calcium phospherous ratio in most pet food(so they can avoid the "oh so terrible" meal and byproduct. Byproducts are white meat, dark meat, organ meats and vicera at least in Science Diet. Guess what a perfect diet is in the wild? GUTS! Talk about a marketing group! They push the "no byproducts, human grade, all natural" coins to unwitting customers because they are so misled on what actually constitutes good nutrition in a pet. They tell you what is NOT in thier food but they fail to really elaborate what it IS they are putting in thier food. Dont be fooled by ingredients. At least science diet dosent succumb to these marketing games. For example, If any of you have ever had to live thourgh a beloved pet succumbing to renal insuffienciency and eventaully renal failure, you may be suprised to know that without the veterinarian who isolated the cause as well as developed the first packaged food to help treat this disease was the founder of Hills, pet owners would not have the treatment options that they do today. It makes me angry that people think vets are money hungry and are recommending nutrition that people like yourselves are deeming"garbage". I am the inventory manager at a large specialty practice and SD makes up a very small portion of our profits. Its not the cash cow that you think it is and vets are not out to get you. You want the best? Then we recommend the best and the equiptment to give you the results you want costs money and a lot of it. Pet insurance is still in its infancy so, unlike human medicince where you see none of the costs except for your little copay, you have to pay to treat your pet out of pocket. Which, I might add is a bargain considering the human equivalent. Unfortunatly, it cost $100,000 to graduate vet school and they are lucky to make $50,000 when they enter private practice. We dont get into this field for the money. I have and will always feed my pets science diet and they have ALL lived well into thier senior years. Trust your vet, they see alot more than you do in regards to nutrition.


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## bellamicuore (Jun 16, 2008)

Um, how can you say I'm mistaken when I said I worked for a vet that did exactly what I said they did when it comes to this food. I've also seen the ingredients in this food. Exactly what nutritional value are you seeing that I'm missing? Sorry, but I'm not buying one bit of what you've said.


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

cattech said:


> Ive been a Certified vet tech for over 10 years. I 've worked in holisitc, exotic, general and specialty practice and have seem the gambit of food marketed for pets.


Hehe, you are really going to be fun. 



> Veterinarians and veterinary technicians have to take an animal nutrition course and hills plays a part in education because they have the SCIENTIFIC PROOF to back nutrional related claims.


So you are admitting that in all your vet tech training and in all a normal vet's training they take ONE course in ANIMAL nutrition. Thats not dog nutrition, not cat nutrition, but nutrition for all animals all in one course? How much time was spent on canine nutrition in that little course? Maybe 3 or 4 days?

I'd like to see some of that scientific proof that Hill's claims to have. They are going to prove that a meatless diet of corn, rice, chicken by-products, and pig fat has more nutrition than meat, bones, and organs? Will they also convince me that the world is flat?



> Byproducts are white meat, dark meat, organ meats and vicera at least in Science Diet.


 I hate do disappoint you but you believe too much of what those Hill's reps tell you. Chicken by-products are heads, beaks, eyeballs, intestines, feet, undeveloped eggs, and intestines. You see, by-products are the cheapest thing that a processing house sells. If something can be used for ANYTHING else, its used for the other thing. ONLY the parts that cannot be sold as anything else are put in the by-product dump bin. It is the part of the chicken that is left after all the nutrition has been removed. Do some actual research instead of reading Hill's marketing brochures and you can verify that. 



> Guess what a perfect diet is in the wild? GUTS!


Actually, thats not correct. A perfect diet would include meat, bones, AND organs. Organs would make up about 10% of the perfect diet as that is about the percentage of organs in a prey animal. There are some good nutrients in organs that are not found in meat and bones but they also lack a lot of nutrients also. Where is the meat in SD? Hill's is selling a food for carnivores that is for all practical purposes devoid of meat. It is the lowest of low quality dog foods.



> Talk about a marketing group! They push the "no byproducts, human grade, all natural" coins to unwitting customers because they are so misled on what actually constitutes good nutrition in a pet.


By-products are not bad in and of themselves in a normal diet, but fed in large amounts they are bad. Most of Hill's products are very very very high in by-products to the exclusion of other meats. Meat is the most nutritious item to feed. I havne't found a Hill's product with meat in it. Some way to feed a carnivore, huh?



> At least science diet dosent succumb to these marketing games.


There you go again. There is no dog food company that has a better or stronger marketing department than Hill's. They are #1. Even the name is marketing BS. There is nothing scientific about Science Diet.



> For example, If any of you have ever had to live thourgh a beloved pet succumbing to renal insuffienciency and eventaully renal failure, you may be suprised to know that without the veterinarian who isolated the cause as well as developed the first packaged food to help treat this disease was the founder of Hills, pet owners would not have the treatment options that they do today.


Yep, he convinced people that feeding a carnivore a diet of corn, rice, chicken by-products, and pig fat is good for dogs with kidney problems. THAT is REAL marketing at it's best. Did you notice that most of Hills prescription "foods" all thave the same ingredients? Did you also notice that they are the cheapest ingredients you can buy?



> It makes me angry that people think vets are money hungry and are recommending nutrition that people like yourselves are deeming"garbage".


It makes me angry that vets are actually like that. It makes me angry that vets take advantage of their clients ignorance of nutrition.



> I am the inventory manager at a large specialty practice and SD makes up a very small portion of our profits. Its not the cash cow that you think it is and vets are not out to get you.


And I want to sell you some prime land in the middle of Nevada. Vets are businessmen first. As a business owner, it is their primary job to maximize profits. They are selling dog food with the cheapest ingredients of any other at premium prices.


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## threedognight (Jun 16, 2008)

*vets*

I dont belive that vets are money hungry; I just think that they dont know any better. I took my dog in to my vets office the other day and he noticed how different she looked from when he diagnosed her with IBD. He commented on how sleek, shiny, and muscular she was(and that she hadnt been in to see him in a while). I told him that I had canged her to a better kibble and it had made the difference. He was so impressed that he went straight in his office to google what I was feeding and I can venture a pretty good guess that his dogs are eating better.


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## bellamicuore (Jun 16, 2008)

You can't lump ALL vets into any category. But MANY vets don't know any better and MANY vets are all about the bottom line. The vet I worked for is very reputable. I trust them with Bella's vet care (except when it comes to nutrition). But they are VERY expensive (read overpriced. When I worked there part time they were very generous with their employees vet care. We got a huge discount. But the pay was crap and for what they make in money they should be paying their employees much better than they do) and a huge focus of theirs is the food - SCIENCE DIET crap! We had a meeting one day that felt very cult like. They would feed us lines (about the food, that we would say to customers) and we would have to repeat it back to them.


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## gowestgirl (Jul 2, 2008)

*Just like a medical doc*

Just like a medical doc- when you have a nutrtion problem more often than not they will send you to a nutritionist. Vets don't know it all and a good one will admit it. Hills underwrites most of the nutrition training that the vet schools do as far as I know it was this way in the past. To boil it down and make a really long story short- what I have no problem saying to any vet or tech: you pile all the "science" on to me as you want- is it HUMAN GRADE (which in itself may not be saying much all the time). If the ingredients would not pass consumption for me and my human family it is not good enough for my furry kids. Science Diet is NOT human grade. That is all I need to know.


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## domari (Jun 17, 2008)

My sister in law is a vet tech and she works for Hills. She's sent around the country to different vet schools to "teach" nutrition to vet students. Hill's has trained her well. 

One of our cats has sensitivities to all kinds of food, she said the cat needs more grain in it's diet to keep from vomiting. My vet (who does NOT push SD) disagrees. Cats need meat, not corn. 

We don't feed any of our dogs or cats SD and they're doing just fine on what we feed them. I've tried many different brands of dog and cat food and SD was not the best food in my opinion.


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## clmalcolm (Jun 22, 2008)

*SD sucks*

hey there

SD is way overated.. my friends boxer grew up on it, but had nasty eye boogies/ unmanagable poo -- he followed me to the world of innova evo and they are both very pleased.. eye boogies disappeared almost overnight!


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