# Skin/fur Turning orange/brown



## Tobi

For the last month or so we have been back and forth with the vet about Tobi's coat. she finally took a skin scraping etc they are doing an active culture on the fur taken from the affected area... and were just waiting to see if it was a fungus on his back or not, we know he had a mild yeast infection in his feet which we are treating with medicated shampoo. This discoloration started happening about when we started feeding raw about a month ago, i noticed some orange patches on his back that you could only see from behind him the skin was a little chapped ( i bathed him as soon as i saw it) we made an appointment which was about a week or two later she said it looked like it COULD be ring worm which i don't think it is as the fur isn't going missing its turning colors along with the skin. it is nowhere else on this body but along the left side of his back and neck. We have been treating that condition with the medicated (miconizole) shampoo as well because it was just small dime sized splotches it wasn't a huge thing... till today. We went for a walk about 3 miles an hour, it wasn't too hot out today but its nice, sunny, so i filled up his kiddy pool outside to see if he wanted to cool off, and he splashed around a little bit (still isn't sure about water) he sat down in it once, its not chlorinated it is essentially tap water i drank directly from the hose before starting to fill it so i know it can't be something in the water... he got out rolled around in the grass a little bit and a scratched his back on the driveway and then we came in, he was laying on his bed when i waslked by and he was COMPLETELY orange... i freaked out called the vet put him in the tub scrubbed him down, and now this condition is horrible... idk what it could be or what is going on and i am just waiting for his vet to call me back.
here are a few pictures i changed the contrast so you could see it as it is hard to see from pictures but easy to see it in person.


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## DaneMama

Tap water out of the hose is chlorinated as far as I know....at least here it is. 

How old is Tobi? Have you done bloodwork on him? How much variety are you giving as of now?


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## Tobi

he is getting a bit of variety, he's getting chicken(liver/hearts/gizzards etc), Venison(just meat, some bone), Pork (meat with the RMB's outside), i was going to start some beef this week as it is about the fourth week heart/liver/steaks etc.

Tobi is 9months, we haven't done bloodwork since he was a baby, i believe it was just before he was neutered, and i did call the water supply and they said the water outside and inside is chlorinated very little and they are sending me out a test slip thing tomorrow. but i can't imagine it would be the water as it wasn't happening more than a month or two ago 

The vet hasn't called me back yet i'm going to call again


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## magicre

when we first started bubba who was midnight black, he also started to show auburny, reddish brown on his coat, especially after we started red meat and organs.

he's back to being black again. 

i wonder if your dog is detoxing.

in looking closely at the picture, it almost looks like rust...i wonder if it's the iron from the food he's getting....he is newly transitioning, yes?


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## Tobi

magicre said:


> when we first started bubba who was midnight black, he also started to show auburny, reddish brown on his coat, especially after we started red meat and organs.
> 
> he's back to being black again.
> 
> i wonder if your dog is detoxing.
> 
> in looking closely at the picture, it almost looks like rust...i wonder if it's the iron from the food he's getting....he is newly transitioning, yes?


Ya he is newly transitioning... and it is really only visible when he is wet, or damp, i'm still working in new proteins red meats etc etc. It isn't tender or anything the skin seems like its kinda wierd underneath... 

I thought the same thing that he may be shedding stuff from the kibble diet but its progressively getting a little bit worse, and i'm not sure if the course of action is to spend thousands at the vet or let it run for a week and see if there is any improvement, i know that i will be getting the results from the vet about the skin scraping pretty soon so i'm kinda wanting to wait on that as well... idk... 

He doesn't bite, or try to scratch at the areas either... this couldn't be something like kidney failure?

Edit... taking him to the vet, on another note, could he be allergic to chicken? raw?


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## magicre

Tobi said:


> Ya he is newly transitioning... and it is really only visible when he is wet, or damp, i'm still working in new proteins red meats etc etc. It isn't tender or anything the skin seems like its kinda wierd underneath...
> 
> I thought the same thing that he may be shedding stuff from the kibble diet but its progressively getting a little bit worse, and i'm not sure if the course of action is to spend thousands at the vet or let it run for a week and see if there is any improvement, i know that i will be getting the results from the vet about the skin scraping pretty soon so i'm kinda wanting to wait on that as well... idk...
> 
> He doesn't bite, or try to scratch at the areas either... this couldn't be something like kidney failure?
> 
> Edit... taking him to the vet, on another note, could he be allergic to chicken? raw?


i don't know what it is, but i do know it's a year later and my dogs are still in transition. my pug blew his undercoat and it's just starting to come back. i did take him to the vet who laughed at me.....my friends who feed raw laughed at me. i had a post here about it because i thought he was going bald....but it's coming back...slowly....and he's healthy like a horse.


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## Tobi

okay what she said is that she can't be positive what it is, she said it seemed that the common denominator in the color was the treats i was giving he didnt change colors the other day at the park when he fell into the water, but he did today when he ate those treats, then again... she said that she cannot be sure becuase he is on a different shampoo which she said she wants him to stop and not wash him for a week and see how he is doing, she thouroughly went through his coat with a magnifying glass and she said she couldn't see anything but pink pretty skin... maybe i'm to protective


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## RachelsaurusRexU

Oh no! I know precisely what this means. 

It's unfortunate, but....he's defective. Sigh....

But no worries. The good news is that I'll take him off your hands for ya! :tongue:

Hehe. Seriously, though, I hope you figure it out but it doesn't sound like anything you should worry yourself to death over. I bet it'll end up being something simple and easily corrected and he'll be just fine!


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## magicre

RachelsaurusRexU said:


> Oh no! I know precisely what this means.
> 
> It's unfortunate, but....he's defective. Sigh....
> 
> But no worries. The good news is that I'll take him off your hands for ya! :tongue:
> 
> Hehe. Seriously, though, I hope you figure it out but it doesn't sound like anything you should worry yourself to death over. I bet it'll end up being something simple and easily corrected and he'll be just fine!


i saw him first. he's mine. he's mine. LOL


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## RachelsaurusRexU

You and I are gonna have to duke this out, Re!


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## magicre

RachelsaurusRexU said:


> You and I are gonna have to duke this out, Re!


that's some big talkin' from a keyboard LOL


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## RachelsaurusRexU

Why I oughta.... Lemme at 'er! LEMME AT 'ER! :typing:



:tongue:


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## magicre

RachelsaurusRexU said:


> Why I oughta.... Lemme at 'er! LEMME AT 'ER! :typing:
> 
> 
> 
> :tongue:


ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooh okaaaaaaay......i'm thinkin' tobi might have something to say about it, anyway.

:tongue:


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## whiteleo

There was talk of this on the raw4bullies website but they called it champagne colored spots. They didn't address it coming from a raw fed dog but from kibble fed dogs, and thought it had to do with plant proteins.


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## magicre

i will put a dollar on the fact that i think this dog is detoxing and is now eating iron and it's showing through the coat.


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## DaneMama

Freya's black patches are turning off black brownish, in the past month. She came to us at the end of January, her previous owner had been feeding her raw as we suggested from the time she was about three months old. As far as I know she was following the guidelines for prey model. But now that her coat is completely changing, I dont think they were feeding her exactly like we suggested. Her coat was very dull but oh so soft, a friend of ours joked that we finally got a dog in "matte finish" instead of glossy LOL. Our Danes have very glossy, shiney, coarse coats, but they're soft too. 

Even though Freya was raw fed from a pup, I think when coming to us her diet has completely changed which is why her coat is getting better. She finally is growing in longer, thicker, coarser, shinier fur and blowing out her soft, dull coat. I don't think she was getting as good of meats as we feed, and possibly too much bone. Only during the transition are dogs supposed to get a lot of bone to keep their bowels from acting up. 

My guess is that you will see a complete change in coat over the next few months. I don't think the color change has anything to do with a specific treat.


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## Tobi

RachelsaurusRexU said:


> Why I oughta.... Lemme at 'er! LEMME AT 'ER! :typing:
> 
> 
> 
> :tongue:





magicre said:


> ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooh okaaaaaaay......i'm thinkin' tobi might have something to say about it, anyway.
> 
> :tongue:


woa woa woa! lol he's my defective puppy! :lol:


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## Tobi

DaneMama said:


> Freya's black patches are turning off black brownish, in the past month. She came to us at the end of January, her previous owner had been feeding her raw as we suggested from the time she was about three months old. As far as I know she was following the guidelines for prey model. But now that her coat is completely changing, I dont think they were feeding her exactly like we suggested. Her coat was very dull but oh so soft, a friend of ours joked that we finally got a dog in "matte finish" instead of glossy LOL. Our Danes have very glossy, shiney, coarse coats, but they're soft too.
> 
> Even though Freya was raw fed from a pup, I think when coming to us her diet has completely changed which is why her coat is getting better. She finally is growing in longer, thicker, coarser, shinier fur and blowing out her soft, dull coat. I don't think she was getting as good of meats as we feed, and possibly too much bone. Only during the transition are dogs supposed to get a lot of bone to keep their bowels from acting up.
> 
> My guess is that you will see a complete change in coat over the next few months. I don't think the color change has anything to do with a specific treat.


So do you think we are doing something wrong? he's getting a balance of bone organ and meats now, and we've been adding new proteins weekly, could this be just the changeover like your pup?


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## RachelsaurusRexU

Hahaha awww, but I just wanted to kiss his silly muzzle! out:


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## DaneMama

Tobi said:


> So do you think we are doing something wrong? he's getting a balance of bone organ and meats now, and we've been adding new proteins weekly, could this be just the changeover like your pup?


Nope, you're doing things just right. You've just started feeding raw just a month ago, give Tobi more time to adjust and then your feeding routine will change. Usually full transition time is 2-3 months or longer. 

Once you get all the proteins in that you're going to feed on a regular basis, then you'll want to adjust things as needed. Feeding mostly meats (red meats are better), some bone (the least amount that'll keep your dog regular- we feed bone only every other day) and some organ (liver and kidney- once a week in our house).


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## Tobi

DaneMama said:


> Nope, you're doing things just right. You've just started feeding raw just a month ago, give Tobi more time to adjust and then your feeding routine will change. Usually full transition time is 2-3 months or longer.
> 
> Once you get all the proteins in that you're going to feed on a regular basis, then you'll want to adjust things as needed. Feeding mostly meats (red meats are better), some bone (the least amount that'll keep your dog regular- we feed bone only every other day) and some organ (liver and kidney- once a week in our house).


I've been trying to find that balance with Tobi actually to keep everything firm and i have found that every other day a bone in meals are good in the chicken quarters we give him i deboned and weighed them and the the bones were very light about 1-2 oz each so he's getting about 12-14oz of bone per week and the rest is right now, deboned chicken every once in a while, pork fromt he roasts i got a while back and some venison.

Tonight i'm going to give him a game hen to play with and see how he likes it


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## Tobi

RachelsaurusRexU said:


> Hahaha awww, but I just wanted to kiss his silly muzzle! out:


:lol: he loves kisses! especially when people DON'T want them! the poor girl doing his nails last night... she sat ont he floor with him and before she got the lead hooked to the table he barreled over her and was licking and mouthing her face :lol:


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## Tobi

Update... taking him to the vet his chest is changing colors, getting a scabby appearance, turning brown etc.
here are some pictures of what i noticed this morning, i thought it may have been a cat scratch from last night or something but it doesn't seem to be. I'm beginning to think it could be his diet. that is the only thing that changed and that is when he started to have this problem. does this look like it could be an allergy to poultry? 



































This is what his back looks like in some spots as well but i cannot find any areas on his back now that look like this, i'm thinking about shaving him...
I've also thought it could very well be pyoderma as he had small pussy like things on his tummy when he was little just months ago we treated it, could it be a relapse?
Pyoderma frequently appears as a rash. It often affects the trunk, chin, bridge of the nose, and feet but it also may be generalized over the entire body. Skin lesions can have a sudden or gradual onset. The animal may or may not itch. If the underlying cause is an allergy, the itching usually comes before the rash. The rash or lesions on the skin may appear as small bumps, pus-filled pimples or pockets of pus, or blood-filled blisters. There can be crusting, scaling, and discolored spots on the skin. The skin may be inflamed (red and hot). Hair loss can occur, giving the animal a "moth-eaten" look.


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## DaneMama

Did he have pyoderma before raw? 

I wouldn't shave him as it will most likely damage his coat further. May eve cause it to not grow back correctly.


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## Tobi

They never diagnosed it AS pyoderma, they said that it could be a small bacterial infection, never once have they diagnosed... they just give us medication, or medicated shampoos and tell us to come back if it doesn't go away in X amount of days.

He had little pussy things on his belly that were treated with medicated shampoo, and medication. that was when he was just 2-3 months old. everything was fine till about a month ago or so, which was right around the time that we started raw. something is feeding this condition as it is spreading very fast now... i can't stop feeding him and i honestly can't afford to feed him everything but chicken to rule that out. The kibble he was on for a few months before raw was Chicken/brown rice from blue buffalo, the puppy formula, i can't honestly think that the problem would be chicken becuase of it but the more this goes on the more i am pointing the finger at it.


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## DaneMama

What is he getting now?


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## Tobi

He's not on anything, after i took him to the vet becuase his coat was turning colors she went over his skin and said it looked nice and pink, and told us to stop the medicated shampoos 3-4 times per week, we did and he is still having these problems. he hasn't been on an antibiotic for a long long time we have an apt but i'm likely going to cancel as they probably won't do anything for us anyways, we'll most likely have to wait until they are bloody blisters to get anything done about it.


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## DaneMama

Is he still on just chicken and turkey? Have you added pork or fish yet?


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## Tobi

we've added, pork, tiny amounts of turkey, not much, and some venison, in fact we have somebody that wants to give us a bunch today as well as some fish... we have 2 fish in the freezer i've just been waiting to give him fish yet... only 5 weeks in. he gets pork usually boneless 2 times a week usually, same with venison i make it a bit more special for him. he's just started getting a little beef here and there starting with little slivers.


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## DaneMama

Ok. It may be that he just has a really sensitive whole body system. That any kind of major change will cause theis pyoderma type skin issue to pop up, including diet change. It may be linked to just the diet but since this has happened once before in the past WAY prior to raw feeding I wouldn't suspect that this issue is related to diet. Can you think of any kind of stressful even that happened the last time he broke out in this pyoderma type skin in issue? It could be something that happened weeks prior to the breakout...

ETA: Have you talked at all with the breeder about this? Is this an issue that runs in the bloodlines or is common for bull terriers?


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## Tobi

skin issues and allerges are rampant in all pure whites from everybody that i ahve talked to, dozens of bt owners, the last time he had the pussy things was when we first got him, and he was infested with worms 

The vet said that some dogs can take a while to change through diets which i have been very impatient with, in reality she said a full conversion and the skin issue could take more than 6-8 weeks to clear up, we got a week of antibiotics to try out she left it up to us, she said if it was her pup she would personally use a solution to clean him, its blue i can't remember the name of it, its deep blue and you dilute it.. anyways we got that as well to just cleanse the affected area once a day as well.

Thanks natalie for helping to ease my mind a little bit... it just drives me nuts seeing this as i know i wouldn't be able to see any of this if he was any other breed or color :/


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## RachelsaurusRexU

I have a little white pittie mix, Maggie, who has similar skin issues. She seems to be very sensitive and many things seem to aggravate it. Wearing a collar, for one. If I leave a collar on her all the time her neck looks just like Tobi's in the above pictures. She has a lined 1.5" martingale that she only wears when we go somewhere, but at home she's a nudie cutie. She also breaks out in hives sometimes and gets rashes on her belly, in her pits and on her chest. She has also developed similar rusty spots in the past. One thing that I have noticed is that her issues seem to correlate with particular seasons for the most part; the warmer ones. The good news is that her skin has been perfect for a few months now. We started raw in August, and I'd say about five or six months in she cleared up and hasn't had a "break out" since. We'll see what late spring and summer bring, but I'm pretty confident that she'll stay nice and pretty!


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## DaneMama

The solution is called chlorohexadine. You can get it from walgreens but ask your vet for some to take home, it should be cheaper that way. 

Don't worry too much. Keep us all posted!


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## magicre

i don't know much about this , but it seems to me he's had this before, even before the diet change...are there new toys in the house?

something different..maybe a new blankie he's playing with? something environmental....

pyoderma canine - Google Search

when i look at those pictures, i want to say that it doesn't look like what i'm seeing on your dog....

maybe a topical ointment for rashes, like benedryl cream or cortisone cream or what natalie suggested? she probably knows more than all of us...


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## DaneMama

Pyoderma is a really general term for skin infections and can look very different from case to case. Some cases being very deep and others being superficial. Either way using an antiseptic cleaning solution with warm water will help immensely. Keeping things clean is a great way to keep infections under control without the use of antibiotics.


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## Tobi

RachelsaurusRexU said:


> I have a little white pittie mix, Maggie, who has similar skin issues. She seems to be very sensitive and many things seem to aggravate it. Wearing a collar, for one. If I leave a collar on her all the time her neck looks just like Tobi's in the above pictures. She has a lined 1.5" martingale that she only wears when we go somewhere, but at home she's a nudie cutie. She also breaks out in hives sometimes and gets rashes on her belly, in her pits and on her chest. She has also developed similar rusty spots in the past. One thing that I have noticed is that her issues seem to correlate with particular seasons for the most part; the warmer ones. The good news is that her skin has been perfect for a few months now. We started raw in August, and I'd say about five or six months in she cleared up and hasn't had a "break out" since. We'll see what late spring and summer bring, but I'm pretty confident that she'll stay nice and pretty!


Ya the vet pointed out that it could be the collar agitating his skin as they are known to be sensitive, and she also pointed out that he is out alot and there are alot of factors so i'm trying to stay calm  I honestly forgot about the seasons changing which you pointed out, and he hasn't seen a spring or full summer yet so it is very possible that its just throwing his system off with it getting warmer, fresh cut grass,pollen etc... i'm going to try to be patient as we haven't even given it a little while to clear up by raw i just hate when he looks so bad it looks uncomfortable lol





DaneMama said:


> The solution is called chlorohexadine. You can get it from walgreens but ask your vet for some to take home, it should be cheaper that way.
> 
> Don't worry too much. Keep us all posted!


Thats the stuff, its deep blue she couldn't give it to us but sold it to us pretty cheap in the non diluted form so it lasted us longer. we'll keep posted on how he's doing, i can't not take pictures after all :lol:


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## Tobi

magicre said:


> i don't know much about this , but it seems to me he's had this before, even before the diet change...are there new toys in the house?
> 
> something different..maybe a new blankie he's playing with? something environmental....
> 
> pyoderma canine - Google Search
> 
> when i look at those pictures, i want to say that it doesn't look like what i'm seeing on your dog....
> 
> maybe a topical ointment for rashes, like benedryl cream or cortisone cream or what natalie suggested? she probably knows more than all of us...


ya tobi's would be considered a very light/mild if any... she did say that is what it looked like but she also said that it could be so many things, we did get some antibiotics just to test out for a week and see if it clears anything up as he hasn't been on any since he was very young. and we are going to use the blue solution on him every day tosee if that changes anything. i just worry that doing too much will throw his system out of whack.

oh vet also told me maybe not paying SUCH close attention to everything on a fair skin light haired dog would do my stress levels some good too...


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## DaneMama

I'd opt to keep things clean with the chlorohexadine before going on antibiotics....if cleaning alone doesnt take care of it, then go to antibiotics.


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## Tobi

DaneMama said:


> I'd opt to keep things clean with the chlorohexadine before going on antibiotics....if cleaning alone doesnt take care of it, then go to antibiotics.


Thats honestly what i wanted to do, but... we had already been working with the antibacterial/antifungal shampoo/eartoe cleaner and it had failed to make a change as well so my GF opted to have us try the antibiotics....i would have prefered to wait but... sigh gf wins :lol:


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## DaneMama

The problem with antibiotics is that they create stronger bacteria if you don't end up getting it all the first round, etc. Just be careful and do the chlorohexadine cleanings at least three times a day along with the antibiotics. Once a day doesn't cut it.


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## Tobi

kk, she mentioned it may dry out his skin is there anything to counter it? I was worried about making it stronger as well, but he's not been on anything for a long time which i kinda tell myself makes it a lil more okay :lol: i really hope this bout will fix it...


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## Pompey

I actually just posted in the raw forums re:thinking of going back to raw after having to take them off a few years ago for budget reasons. Because THIS is what was happening when I fed too much chicken. It wasn't really the chicken, it was all the Omega 6 in the chicken fat and me having a hard time balancing that with other meats without murdering my budget. The black dogs had a very noticeable tint year round and the red/white dogs had areas of fur that looked... rusted almost. They all had dandruff. Lots of it. 

Trimming the chicken fat or taking most of it off seemed to help, and giving them fatty red meats, especially lamb, seemed to eliminate this. I also had to supplement with fish oils. I eventually had to cut chicken meals down to once or twice weekly, and please don't flame me, but I fed a few spoon-fulls of raw soaked oats a few times weekly to soothe the skin and give extra B vitamins. 

Which is why my wallet deflated 

ETA: I forgot to add that when their coats were tinged that orangy brown, one supplement that really seemed to help was Inflight.


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## Tobi

Thank you Pompey! I'm going to try removing all the skin Pork fat which i have in the freezer also has omega 6 in it as well... i'm researching trying to find out what is lower in it. thank you for pointing that out!

I'm goig to remove all fat from all the chicken i give and see if it makes a difference, i've found pork fat is high in omega 6 as well so that is a no go with what i have in the fridge, but i found that beef fat is low in 6 so i'll do waht i can to suppliment it that way. and see if i can see a difference...

Last night Tobi had chicken for dinner skin on, and this morning he had alot of orange on the side of him he didn't sleep on.... i hope this will make a difference.


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## BT mommy

I know this thread is a few years old, but what was the end result? I'm having the same problem with my white bull terrier. He is also on a raw diet. I'm going to try no chicken and see how that's goes. I was just very curious on what happened.


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## whiteleo

BT mommy said:


> I know this thread is a few years old, but what was the end result? I'm having the same problem with my white bull terrier. He is also on a raw diet. I'm going to try no chicken and see how that's goes. I was just very curious on what happened.


I know for my white male, taking away the chicken changed his color. Chicken is pretty bad when you do some research as to what/how they are fed and treated


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## Tobi

BT mommy said:


> I know this thread is a few years old, but what was the end result? I'm having the same problem with my white bull terrier. He is also on a raw diet. I'm going to try no chicken and see how that's goes. I was just very curious on what happened.


It was the ivermectin, or heart gard he was getting... After a few months of freedom from it his coat dropped the yeast and returned to a pristine white! I hope this helps... Like robin I feed limited chicken, just bony cuts or free range frames.


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## BT mommy

Omg I would never of thought that!!!!!! I just gave him some ivermectin last week and that was when the problem started about 6 weeks ago with the first dose! It has to be the same thing! I'm still going to do no chicken for a while. How long til his coat cleared? I bought that cleanser stuff that was mentioned. Be dog shows coming up and hoping it clears up soon. Thanks for replying back!!


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## whiteleo

BT mommy said:


> Omg I would never of thought that!!!!!! I just gave him some ivermectin last week and that was when the problem started about 6 weeks ago with the first dose! It has to be the same thing! I'm still going to do no chicken for a while. How long til his coat cleared? I bought that cleanser stuff that was mentioned. Be dog shows coming up and hoping it clears up soon. Thanks for replying back!!


Not necessarily, I have never given heart worm meds and my boys fur was brown in spots while feeding chicken so it may happoen from both things


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## BT mommy

I'm still going to cease on the chicken to see what happens. No chicken is going to be tough since I have a 100lb chicken/turkey order coming. Do u feed turkey? or no poultry all together?


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## whiteleo

Turkey has not been a problem, just so it is not enhanced in any way


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## Tobi

I haven't had a problem with chicken that is healthy, and farmed correctly, no hormones, antibiotics, and fed a proper omnivores diet, he gets TONS of free range chicken feets... Usually at least one a day, they are great treats lol! Cicken in some cases could very well be the problem though, I believe in feeding healthy properly farmed and raised animals... And the. We don't run into any problems.


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## Jan Fred

My dog Amer also has these irregularities on her "hair color" I was thinking of it as a sign of aging. Is there another reason than a sign of aging in her case?


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