# Just starting raw, some issues



## tjh07e (Apr 24, 2013)

Goodmorning! I have a 13 month old female German shepherd, about 75lbs. I started her on raw 5 days ago. I switched her from kibble right away with no transition. She has been getting about 1.75lbs a day in two meals. So far only chicken thighs, hearts, liver, and chkn breast. The first couple days her poop was smaller much more dense and although kind of weird looking, it seemed somewhat normal. 

The last two days she has been struggling to poop with yesterday only extremely runny brown liquid like ever hour. I haven't given her anymore bone in meat since this started, cut portions way down, and have been adding raw pumpkin tobher meals. At the dogpark she seems to act completely normal but at home I can tell she is mopey and doesn't feel well. After the pumpkin her poop has been slightly more mushy but she is still struggling, not much at all comes out, and she wants to try every hour or two. 

The only bone she's gotten has been the whole thighs and I've definitely seen her crunch through them. But it almost seems like she has a blockage? No real signa of bloating, she's hydrated, no pain if I push a little on her stomach. I really want to know if I should take her to the vet right away...or stick it out?

Thank you!


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

Stop the heart and liver for now. Those aren't introduced until much later. Stick with ONLY bone in chicken for about the fist week or two. If there still seems to ne some constipation,, you can add a little boneless breast in to add to the meat content.


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## tjh07e (Apr 24, 2013)

So I should not be worried that she's constipated from a chunk of bone and continue feeding rmb's? She just pooped straight orange mushy pumpkin looking stuff.


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

That's why you may want to add some more meat to balance it out, but no heart or organs yet.


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## FBarnes (Feb 17, 2013)

She is has diarrhea, even with the straining. It happens. I agree - don't feed the organs! They are too rich. Cut down on the total amount of food to at least 1.5% which would be a little over a pound a day. Or even a pound. You could even fast her completely for 12 or 24 hours and start over.

I wouldn't cut out the bone but remove the skin and most of the fat. Just start over and go slow. Dump the pumpkin - it is a mask for problems, not a cure.


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## brindle (Mar 14, 2013)

tjh07e said:


> So I should not be worried that she's constipated from a chunk of bone and continue feeding rmb's? She just pooped straight orange mushy pumpkin looking stuff.


I would take her to the vet and have them check her for an impaction. We are not experts and cannot (should not) advise you on anything medical. Good luck


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## SmoothWire (Apr 18, 2013)

brindle said:


> I would take her to the vet and have them check her for an impaction. We are not experts and cannot (should not) advise you on anything medical. Good luck


I agree, how can anyone give advice like the above. It is so random too; feed organ-don't feed organs, feed skin-don't feed the skin, feed bone-don't feed bone, feed 1.50% of body weight - feed less than 1.50% of body weight, feed pumpkin- don't feed pumpkin. What does *"add some more meat to balance it out"* mean anyway? Balance what?

Whichever way the wind blows I guess. The Vet sounds like a good idea, at least there is someone with a degree that will actually look at the animal.


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## FBarnes (Feb 17, 2013)

If the dog is pooping, there isn't an impaction. If the dog is fine other than a little diarrhea you don't have to run to the vet for every little thing. The dog doesn't have a sensistive stomach, isn't bloating, isn't puking like crazy. Sheesh. The FIRST sign of a blockage is vomiting. I go to the vet every fricken week practically and I wouldn't take my dog to the vet for a little straining when it's been overfed, fed organs, fed too much fat, etc. Don't you even know what a blockage does do a dog?


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

Actually they both don't and they should not even be here in the raw section......Some people can't play by the rules


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## brindle (Mar 14, 2013)

FBarnes said:


> If the dog is pooping, there isn't an impaction. If the dog is fine other than a little diarrhea you don't have to run to the vet for every little thing. The dog doesn't have a sensistive stomach, isn't bloating, isn't puking like crazy. Sheesh. The FIRST sign of a blockage is vomiting. I go to the vet every fricken week practically and I wouldn't take my dog to the vet for a little straining when it's been overfed, fed organs, fed too much fat, etc. Don't you even know what a blockage does do a dog?


I've had diarrhea when I was constipated. Sorry to be gross but it is true... 
The dog may not have impaction. Or it might. I'm not qualified to say. 
All I was saying is that we are not qualified to make these type of judgements. Unless you are a vet that is? Then I'll eat my words.


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## brindle (Mar 14, 2013)

whiteleo said:


> Actually they both don't and they should not even be here in the raw section......Some people can't play by the rules


 I have some knowledge concerning raw feeding and I still do feed partial raw.


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## Tobi (Mar 18, 2011)

brindle said:


> I have some knowledge concerning raw feeding and I still do feed partial raw.


op2: op2:

A 75lb dog in a new switch should be getting about 1.5 lbs so your first and foremost over feeding. Organs on a new switch are going to cause diarrhea. They shouldn't be fed to a new switch until around week 8. Are you feeding quarters or just thighs? Quarters are better for a 75lb digit will make them chew better since they can't swallow it in full. A dog is designed to swallow large bits of meat and bone so that they can get it in fast so it isn't stolen, so feeding bigger will force him to chew off peices. (If you aren't feeding large bits already).

Tobi gets diarrhea still from some organs, spleen, heart+liver etc if he doesn't feel like getting the bone he was given with that meal... As far as vetting I'm no expert but taking a dog to the vet for every little thing would be a costly venture, he'll around here people use them as lawn ornaments and they are never monitored for what they are eating etc... I've seen socks and stuff in neighbors dog poops its pretty crazy, but anyways, you know your dog better than anybody, if the abnormalities keep up do what you feel is best. We usually wait a day or so if Tobi is having an issue, and I'm a fur-mommy so that's saying something...:biggrin:

So anyways, vet if you feel it's necessary, or wait a day and see if things go back to normal by feeding correct amounts and no organs and heart.


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## FBarnes (Feb 17, 2013)

brindle said:


> I've had diarrhea when I was constipated. Sorry to be gross but it is true...
> The dog may not have impaction. Or it might. I'm not qualified to say.
> All I was saying is that we are not qualified to make these type of judgements. Unless you are a vet that is? Then I'll eat my words.


Then you should just tell EVERYONE to go to a vet that mentions any kind of problem at all because after all, it's the internet. I know exactly what her dog is doing. I have a dog that does that. If the dog isn't bloated, throwing up etc it's not impacted. It's constipated diarrhea. It's not uncommon. If she wants to go to a vet, she'll go. If the dog gets worse, she'll go. She is overfeeding and feeding too rich. It happens alot when people start raw. I have gone to get a xray on several occasions just to be sure and I relied on my own judgment, not anyone else's, to do it. You are here just to foment trouble, as you usually are. And as usual, no one will do anything about it.


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## Dobelover (Mar 14, 2013)

I don't think the amount you're feeding is too much...it's just over 2%. But I do agree with the others that it's too soon for organ meat. You should stick with just the chicken for a bit then slowly introduce the organ meat. Also a good idea is to add tripe to help with digestion. You can get diarrhea with constipation, rare, but you can. There is no harm in making sure it's not constipation, then you will know for sure and it will make you feel better. But it probably is the organ meat...too much too soon. Just go back to the chicken, make sure all is going well then add in the other meats, one at a time. That's way if diarrhea happens again you will know what is causing it. In the beginning, we found all our chicken up, bone and all. Our guy is a gulper and we wanted to make sure he could handle the raw before getting into the bigger bone pieces  good luck! I hope your guy feels better soon!


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## FBarnes (Feb 17, 2013)

In my experience constipated diarrhea is fairly common, but people don't recognize it as diarrhea because their dog is straining. It's also fairly common to have to drop dogs' amount down, especially after starting out wrong and getting problems. Even 1% is realistic for some dogs. 2% is a guideline, not a rule. For a dog with diarrhea I would certainly reduce the amount until they have normal bowel movement.


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## BeagleCountry (Jan 20, 2012)

SmoothWire said:


> Whichever way the wind blows I guess. The Vet sounds like a good idea, at least there is someone with a degree that will actually look at the animal.


From the person who has stated he will never support raw and recommends a "dab" of horse wormer to treat a dog.

thj07e - Below are a couple of links with a wealth of information. The first is maintained by our very own DaneMama. She is a vet tech who knows her stuff. The second has some additional information that you may find useful.
How to Get Started | Prey Model Raw
http://puppybutt.weebly.com/uploads/7/6/9/2/7692088/beginners_guide_to_prey_model_raw_rv.4.1.pdf

Edit: SmoothWire banned. Thank you Mod!


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## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

i definitely agree that you need to lower the amount for now. You will probably need to raise it later when you get into it a little bit because she is a growing dog and the amount is a bit low. However, it is always best to start with less and up the amount a little later. 

Organs and heart are very rich. They are big causes of the runs. If we introduce heart to a dog we always make sure the dog is capable of handling a boneless meal of that protein first. Heart can be an amazing protein source later though. Beef heart is a staple for my Bluetick Coonhound. Organs are essential to the diet, but should not be given so soon. Let your dog get used to some other proteins first before giving her organ again.

The getting started guide BeagleCountry gave you is, in my opinion, the best place to start.


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## brindle (Mar 14, 2013)

FBarnes said:


> Then you should just tell EVERYONE to go to a vet that mentions any kind of problem at all because after all, it's the internet. I know exactly what her dog is doing. I have a dog that does that. If the dog isn't bloated, throwing up etc it's not impacted. It's constipated diarrhea. It's not uncommon. If she wants to go to a vet, she'll go. If the dog gets worse, she'll go. She is overfeeding and feeding too rich. It happens alot when people start raw. I have gone to get a xray on several occasions just to be sure and I relied on my own judgment, not anyone else's, to do it. You are here just to foment trouble, as you usually are. And as usual, no one will do anything about it.


Telling a person to go to the vet is far safer then telling them to "feed more meat" or "less organ" or whatever people anecdotally come up with. 
One thing Tobi said is true... only the OP truly knows her dog. If she/he is worried then they must take their dog to a *professional*.
I'm not here to create trouble. I love dogs and I am here for them, the same as anyone else on these forums. *Sorry* my words don't fit your specific criteria.


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## Herzo (Feb 5, 2011)

Aw dame he is banned and so soon. I know allot of you will be mad at me but he really keeps things jumping around here.

So I typed this out twice yesterday when I saw this thread and canceled it both times. I'm going to do it now. I think it was last summer the Turtle went on walk about and got into something. I knew she had as her stomach was full when she got home, she does this sometimes likes to go snooping at the neighbors.

Well I should have fasted her and I didn't she ate that night and I fed her chicken legs in the morning. Well she had the big runs and started feeling not well I could tell. My gut instinct was to fast her but I got a little worried she might be impacted so I went to the vet. They took and x-ray and said well there is a little bone in there. Of course there is I fed her chicken legs this morning, I didn't tell the vet this as she didn't ask. She told me just to watch her and bring her back if she didn't get better.

Then I took her home and did what I should have in the first place which was make some liver broth and chicken broth and feed her that for the next day then go back into feeding and she was fine.

So I know long story but it cost me about $100 to do what I knew I should have in the first place. It wasn't worth the money but if it will ease your mind then do it. It did ease mine a bit but I won't do it a second time till I try what I knew to do in the first place.


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## brindle (Mar 14, 2013)

Herzo said:


> Aw dame he is banned and so soon. I know allot of you will be mad at me but he really keeps things jumping around here.
> 
> So I typed this out twice yesterday when I saw this thread and canceled it both times. I'm going to do it now. I think it was last summer the Turtle went on walk about and got into something. I knew she had as her stomach was full when she got home, she does this sometimes likes to go snooping at the neighbors.
> 
> ...


I agree. Why ban a person that has obvious experience and knowledge? Oh I know! His opinions also don't fit the criteria/agenda. Oh well. I'm sure he'll create another "alias" lol
This forum is boring and droll without him. And where is DaViking?


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## Herzo (Feb 5, 2011)

brindle said:


> I agree. Why ban a person that has obvious experience and knowledge? Oh I know! His opinions also don't fit the criteria/agenda. Oh well. I'm sure he'll create another "alias" lol
> This forum is boring and droll without him. And where is DaViking?


Well I do see why he gets banned he just entertains me. It is unfortunate that he can't put things in a less abusive manner because he can when he wants help people. Most of the time I count him out just because of how it is put. When someone has such a chip on there shoulder I can not rely on them for being on the up and up and to give good advice.

I also find this criteria/agenda thing puzzling, as there is no one that has a bigger one than Westminsterthree,Mythbuster, Practical Feeder,monstersdad and SmoothWire. Those are the ones I do know and there may be more. Do you get my drift, when you keep coming back, and yes I look forward to it, but now that is an agenda plain and simple.

And I have been wondering where DaViking is as well,must be busy.


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## Tobi (Mar 18, 2011)

brindle said:


> I agree. Why ban a person that has obvious experience and knowledge? Oh I know! His opinions also don't fit the criteria/agenda. Oh well. I'm sure he'll create another "alias" lol
> This forum is boring and droll without him. And where is DaViking?


Because if consistent nonsensical derailment of threads, just like Yourself, and the fact that you both can not seem to keep your attitudes, and personal attacking ways in check. I'm sure you will continue to derail... Carry on.


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## brindle (Mar 14, 2013)

Tobi said:


> Because if consistent nonsensical derailment of threads, just like Yourself, and the fact that you both can not seem to keep your attitudes, and personal attacking ways in check. I'm sure you will continue to derail... Carry on.


Well I can't speak for monstersdad but I am just blunt. I sometimes come across as condescending or sarcastic and I apologize for that, but my mission is truly the same is yours- helping dogs. 
If that means admitting I don't know something (instead of "throw him some more meat") then that is what I will do. That is what professionals are here for, why they go to school for 8 years or more. 
I don't know who I have personally attacked..
The attitude goes both ways unfortunately. You have discovered the cure to all ailments in dog health because you have reverted back to their "natural" diet-PMR. It just doesn't quite work that way... it's not that black and white. 
If you are doing the best by your dogs, kudos. If you just want to be right and have an elitist/superior attitude to those that don't feed PMR (I do truly believe that is why some, not ALL, members feed raw) then get over yourself. 
This is not a sand box in a kids playground. If you don't agree with me or other members fine, state that. Don't get all butt hurt and request a ban because you are too small to accept an opposing opinion (by you I don't necessarily mean you Tobi). 
Monstersdad can be brash. He is also invaluable to this forum and full of insightful information. I don't know him personally but I respect his wisdom. Maybe we can all be grown ups and stop acting like children who have their feelings hurt in the previously mentioned sand box? 
Bans should be restricted to someone who is name calling or being TRULY verbally abusive. Even then it is an extreme measure. 
Sorry to burst your bubble. Not everyone is going to like you or your opinion.
Also: I think that if someone started a thread called "why do raw feeders seem so narrow minded" or "why are raw feeders feeding a dog like a wolf"... the threads would be locked. It is hard to actually give an opinion when sometimes members act like pouty children and can't handle a healthy debate.


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## brindle (Mar 14, 2013)

Herzo said:


> Well I do see why he gets banned he just entertains me. It is unfortunate that he can't put things in a less abusive manner because he can when he wants help people. Most of the time I count him out just because of how it is put. When someone has such a chip on there shoulder I can not rely on them for being on the up and up and to give good advice.
> 
> I also find this criteria/agenda thing puzzling, as there is no one that has a bigger one than Westminsterthree,Mythbuster, Practical Feeder,monstersdad and SmoothWire. Those are the ones I do know and there may be more. Do you get my drift, when you keep coming back, and yes I look forward to it, but now that is an agenda plain and simple.
> 
> And I have been wondering where DaViking is as well,must be busy.


He may have an agenda. Or he may not.
Abusive is subjective. If some people saw my husband and I play wrestling (we get pretty rough) they would suggest that he is an abuser and I should leave ASAP LOL!
If you use Cesar Millan's methods, you are abusive. 
If you swat your kids bum, you are abusive. 
If you fart, you are abusive. Drunk man Jose Cruz charged for assault, farts on policeman | thetelegraph.com.au
If someone calls you an idiot (for example)- take a good hard look in the mirror and ask yourself-- am I being an idiot? It it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck... Instead of omg I was just abused by some random/anonymous person on a dog food forum. Yeesh. Hopefully you are not reading into what I'm saying as I am calling you an idiot... it wouldn't surprise me if I get banned for this example I created! 
We are turning into a society of wimps.


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## kathylcsw (Jul 31, 2011)

I think the issue with Monstersdad, smoothwire, and others is that they come into the raw section and talk about how bad raw is and you should go to the vet for everything and feed kibble. IMO if raw feeders wanted advice from non raw feeders they would ask for it in the kibble section. People get upset when someone enters a raw discussion to put raw feeding down. Honestly when I post questions I do not want any opinions or comments from a kibble feeder. Their opinions are not important to me and often they get the whole thread off track. That is totally rude to the OP. If you have nothing postive to add, then add nothing.

Having said that, I do know that raw feeders sometimes do the same thing in the kibble section. That is just as obnoxious as kibble feeders doing it in the raw section. Again if you have nothing positive to add, then add nothing.


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## brindle (Mar 14, 2013)

kathylcsw said:


> I think the issue with Monstersdad, smoothwire, and others is that they come into the raw section and talk about how bad raw is and you should go to the vet for everything and feed kibble. IMO if raw feeders wanted advice from non raw feeders they would ask for it in the kibble section. People get upset when someone enters a raw discussion to put raw feeding down. Honestly when I post questions I do not want any opinions or comments from a kibble feeder. Their opinions are not important to me and often they get the whole thread off track. That is totally rude to the OP. If you have nothing postive to add, then add nothing.
> 
> Having said that, I do know that raw feeders sometimes do the same thing in the kibble section. That is just as obnoxious as kibble feeders doing it in the raw section. Again if you have nothing positive to add, then add nothing.


I believe that I added the ONLY logical thing to this thread. When in doubt, go to the vet. Pretty simple. 
I am not a primarily kibble feeder, I am a partial raw feeder. 
What if theoretically, your anecdotal advice killed someone's dog? How would you feel? Or if someone else's advice killed YOUR dog? I think you would be changing your tune pretty damn quick. 
I don't see how saying "go to the vet" is a negative thing?? If you can't afford a vet, why have a dog? A check up isn't going to make the average person broke. If it will, yet again, what are you doing with dogs?
I have more to say on this topic but I began a debate thread in the general section-- http://dogfoodchat.com/forum/general-dog-discussion/19495-debate-thread.html


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

Okay, here is my take on this whole thing, since several people have asked me now...

I don't think individuals should only be allowed to post in the raw or kibble sections, AS LONG AS they are not blatantly trying to cause trouble and just saying "RAW (or kibble) IS AWFUL".

I think questioning ideas and debating is perfectly acceptable though, and really, necessary. No one should go through life, regarding any topic, just reading one set of opinions that only agree with each other, without hearing both sides. I don't really like that certain people aren't "allowed" in certain sections, I think that people should be allowed to post in WHATEVER section they choose, as long as they are actually adding to a conversation, and not merely making snarky remarks. Just because questions or ideas don't align with yours, does not mean that they are useless to the conversation at hand. 

That's just my 2 cents.


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## Herzo (Feb 5, 2011)

Well brindle probably while you were posting I was I started a new one also.


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## brindle (Mar 14, 2013)

Herzo said:


> Well brindle probably while you were posting I was I started a new one also.


I guess my thread got deleted by a mod...
Why not have a debate thread. That way people that are asking serious questions/hoping for direct answers won't have to wade through the derailments. I thought it was a good idea but I suppose, those that complain the loudest...


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

I issued the ban. It was for continually insulting members, either directly or making blanket statements about groups of people here. 
I LIKE having opposing opinions here, its a shame so few can express them without the insults. After members are given private warnings "If you do X again the result will be Y." And they choose to continue the behavior, mods are really left no choice.


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## Herzo (Feb 5, 2011)

i agree Linsey but I had answered all her questions might have been a good thing. But also maybe not, any who if you don't like the one I started then by all means ban it. I won't let it hurt my little feeling 

I sort of did think this thing needed addressed.


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## Roo (Oct 17, 2010)

I don't mind respectful debates, but I don't like sterotyping/generalizing in a rude, disrespectful manner, or snarky comments/digs to try to goat other members into the millionth heated mud slinging raw vs kibble debate that ultimately derails and closes threads.


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## FBarnes (Feb 17, 2013)

brindle said:


> Telling a person to go to the vet is far safer then telling them to "feed more meat" or "less organ" or whatever people anecdotally come up with.
> One thing Tobi said is true... only the OP truly knows her dog. If she/he is worried then they must take their dog to a *professional*.
> I'm not here to create trouble. I love dogs and I am here for them, the same as anyone else on these forums. *Sorry* my words don't fit your specific criteria.


Then, nobody should come here. Just go to a vet. No need for this forum or any other. 

If I think my dog needs a vet, I go to a vet. With a new raw feeder, they may see things they haven't seen before and it almost always means they are doing something wrong. People who have been feeding raw for a certain period of time have seen the same thing over and over again. It's never a blockage. If a dog is throwing up repeatedly, bloated etc. they will ALWAYS get urged to go to a vet ASAP. A little constipated diarrhea? There's no need for these forums if simple problems can't be fixed with a little advice - cut down the food, give up the organs, probably fast a day or so, and it's all fixed. It's been done a thousand times on these very boards.


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## wolfsnaps88 (Jan 2, 2012)

People have to make up their own minds. If something is 'off' (diarrhea, constipation, etc.)when starting a raw diet, it is up to the dog owner if they want to take their dog to the vet. No one is saying NOT to go to the vet, but I learned not to go over every little thing because its costly and unnecessary. New raw feeders will usually see things they are not used to and need feedback, advise from people that have been there and seen that. Does that mean we condone NOT going to a vet? Come on...

We can offer advise but that does not mean we are taking responsibility for other's actions on medical choices for their animals. 

Actually I do not appreciate people who have to start crap every time because it might scare new raw feeders away (either to go do it on their own and possibly do it wrong or give up altogether). Don't you have something better to do? The sun is shining outside, there is more to life than starting drama on an internet site about dog food. If you only come here to watch drama or start drama, you need to go somewhere else. 

I LOVE to debate. But with the topic of dog food, its all been said before (for both sides of the argument) and its boring. I give Meg and Lauren credit. I am glad I declined being a mod


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## BeagleCountry (Jan 20, 2012)

brindle said:


> Well I can't speak for monstersdad but I am just blunt. I sometimes come across as condescending or sarcastic and I apologize for that, but my mission is truly the same is yours- helping dogs.
> If that means admitting I don't know something (instead of "throw him some more meat") then that is what I will do. That is what professionals are here for, why they go to school for 8 years or more.
> *I don't know who I have personally attacked..*
> The attitude goes both ways unfortunately. You have discovered the cure to all ailments in dog health because you have reverted back to their "natural" diet-PMR. It just doesn't quite work that way... it's not that black and white.
> ...


On 01-01-2013 to me: The term was Detective D*****. I am not allowed to spell out the word or the post will be deleted.

On 04-02-2013 to whiteleo: "I choose to ignore you. In the time that I have been here *you have offered absolutely ZERO insight or intelligence*. Good luck with that and I wish you well."

On 04-02-2013 to me: You made a similar remark in regard to my posts. It was deleted.


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## brindle (Mar 14, 2013)

BeagleCountry said:


> On 01-01-2013 to me: The term was Detective D*****. I am not allowed to spell out the word or the post will be deleted.
> 
> On 04-02-2013 to whiteleo: "I choose to ignore you. In the time that I have been here *you have offered absolutely ZERO insight or intelligence*. Good luck with that and I wish you well."
> 
> On 04-02-2013 to me: You made a similar remark in regard to my posts. It was deleted.


I don't know when I typed detective D*****. 
Whiteleo has only been on to make sarcastic/rude comments to people he/she doesn't like. I believe that was also after he/she had verbally assaulted me. I don't know what she called me because it was censored. That is the extent of her participation on this forum, hence the remark. 
I don't recall what I have ever said to you beaglecountry. 
So many member say "we don't like this about how you talk" we don't like that about what youre saying" but yet you are all prolonging the conversation. I was done yesterday but the convo has continued on without me. If you were so "over it" and the material of this topic, why keep typing within the thread? 
Wolf snaps- yes. I'm well aware this discussion is tedious and repetitive. So is most of the other material. Remove the skin. Remove the fat. Give more organ. Less bone. Etc etc. I was just mentioning that the OP should take her dog to the vet if she is truly concerned. 
No one on here is qualified to make a judgement on whether a dog has impaction or not. Whether is has bowel issues or not. Whether the dog should even continue raw with these issues, or not. 
Fbarnes- there is a difference between discussing a medical issue and whether a dog should start a new protein or not. This isn't a panel full of veterinarians, holistic vets or nutritionists. Although it would seem that some act as if they are. 
For everyone being so irritated with me, and hating the opinions that I put forth; you all seem to have a huge problem finding the ignore button...
I don't say what I say to be agreeable and follow the herd. I say them because if I was worries about my dog I would go to the vet. I went one time just because my dog had a slight amount of hair loss around her lower lips. May seem insignificant to many members on here but to me it was important and I don't mind spending the extra money. 
I'm also going to be taking her to the doc to check out what the possible reasons are for her dander. Just because. 
My dog cannot speak her discomfort. Nor can she speak when the discomfort has gone away. It is my responsibility to figure it out for her and find a solution for the issue.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

brindle, i wish there were more vets who knew about raw feeding and the subsequent transitional issues that occasionally come up.

every dog is different......just as every human is......and nutrition is one of those balancing acts we all do for ourselves, our pets....

that's why the 2-3% is a guideline, not carved in stone. my pug eats approx. 1.5% to keep his girlish figger....whereas my collie eats 2.5% to keep his...course he is growing, so probably will be fed even more as he creeps up toward a year old and that teen age time.

new feeders do run into problems that seem to be more than what they are....and we who have been there....recognise these problems. as i said in the other thread, we start with the simplest fix and peel the onion.....

if nothing works and the dog shows one single symptom that needs a vet, we will know. keep in mind, the rarity of natural feeding vets is just that. rare. 

we have these forums for a reason......guides are written for a reason.....there is nowhere else to go. a case of gastritis for a raw fed dog is not the same as one for a differently fed dog.....newly transitioned dogs to raw can run the gamut from iron guts to the sensitivity of my corgi mix who got hershey squirts.....and, still it was not a vet issue, but believe me, my mentor and this forum got us through it. without incidence.

by all means, if the OP is uncomfortable, go to the vet. that is the choice of the owner.....

i so wish there were more resources in the form of natural feeding vets......they could then assess and advise for a raw fed dog and also assuage the owner's concerns.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

tjh07e said:


> So I should not be worried that she's constipated from a chunk of bone and continue feeding rmb's? She just pooped straight orange mushy pumpkin looking stuff.




how is she doing today?


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## wolfsnaps88 (Jan 2, 2012)

Brindle: I did not say this discussion (this topic) is tedious. I like to help new raw feeders like I was helped when I was new. What I find tedious is you. When you first joined I gave you the benefit of a doubt and tried to help you, only to see that you were not really here for that. I can not ignore you because I want to make sure you are not blatantly scaring off new people on my favorite forum. So I have to wade through the tedioum that you leave in your wake everytime you decide to post something (at least when it comes to raw, I do avoid other topics you involve yourself in here).

To the OP, let me apologize for how this thread as progressed. Every forum has their 'brindle' (or whatever you would like to call someone who enjoys picking fights). I do hope some people on here have given you something to work with in adjusting meal plans and it goes without saying, if in doubt, go to the vet  and welcome!


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## brindle (Mar 14, 2013)

wolfsnaps88 said:


> Brindle: I did not say this discussion (this topic) is tedious. I like to help new raw feeders like I was helped when I was new. What I find tedious is you. When you first joined I gave you the benefit of a doubt and tried to help you, only to see that you were not really here for that. I can not ignore you because I want to make sure you are not blatantly scaring off new people on my favorite forum. So I have to wade through the tedioum that you leave in your wake everytime you decide to post something (at least when it comes to raw, I do avoid other topics you involve yourself in here).
> 
> To the OP, let me apologize for how this thread as progressed. Every forum has their 'brindle' (or whatever you would like to call someone who enjoys picking fights). I do hope some people on here have given you something to work with in adjusting meal plans and it goes without saying, if in doubt, go to the vet  and welcome!


Omg what did I do now? You are the one continuing the argument! If you were really so set on not arguing then why do you continue to nag me?


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