# Honest Kitchen vs. Grandma Lucy's???



## rambo

We are in the process of switching dog foods and would like any feedback on these two brands. I know there are some differences...Honest Kitchen dehydrates their food and Grandma Lucy's freeze dries their food. I talked to the people at Grandma Lucy's and they say that actually helps the food retain most of its nutrition. The part that concerns me about Honest Kitchen is that they get their ingredients from all over the world....including Asia. Grandma Lucy's ingredients all come from the US. If you've had any experiences with these two brands (good or bad) I would be really appreciative if you could share them. Thanks.


----------



## flippedstars

We feed The Honest Kitchen. The only ingredient they get from Asia is celery, because seasonally, that's the only place to get it. Our celery comes from Asia during times of the year, too, are we dying?  Ha ha. JK, but in all seriousness, THK is very honest about where their food sources come from and because of how they are dehydrated/processed, I truly believe they are 100% safe despite my being a food safety freak. 

That being said I think either option is a good one. When you are talking a company as small as either of these, you can pretty much trust the food no matter where it's from.

We have 4 dogs and all 4 are doing well on a combination of THK Keen & Embark. I know other members here feed it too. I think both THK & Grandma Lucy's are a better option versus kibble especially after seeing how well my dogs are doing on THK. Good luck and keep us updated!


----------



## rambo

flippedstars said:


> We feed The Honest Kitchen. The only ingredient they get from Asia is celery, because seasonally, that's the only place to get it. Our celery comes from Asia during times of the year, too, are we dying?  Ha ha. JK, but in all seriousness, THK is very honest about where their food sources come from and because of how they are dehydrated/processed, I truly believe they are 100% safe despite my being a food safety freak.
> 
> That being said I think either option is a good one. When you are talking a company as small as either of these, you can pretty much trust the food no matter where it's from.
> 
> We have 4 dogs and all 4 are doing well on a combination of THK Keen & Embark. I know other members here feed it too. I think both THK & Grandma Lucy's are a better option versus kibble especially after seeing how well my dogs are doing on THK. Good luck and keep us updated!


Do you feed the THK as a stand alone or do you add meat to it? The person I spoke with from Grandma Lucy's said their food is a stand alone. Also, I've read a lot on these two companies the last couple of days, but I'm still not sure I totally understand the benefits of their preparation methods (dehydrated/freeze dried) versus standard kibble. Nutritionally, is it more beneficial than a quality kibble (Acana/Orijen)? If so, why? We've fed our dogs Innova for years, so I'm out of the loop on what all is out there. I read where Innova will be changing their formula January 2011, so I'm starting to look to change because I really don't trust P&G with dog food. I'm debating between THK, Grandma Lucy's, Acana and Orijen. I just want what is best for my dogs and I don't know if I'm putting too much thought into it at this point. From everything I've read on those four foods, it's like splitting hairs. I guess I'm looking for a reason to push me in one direction! Thanks for your response and help!


----------



## RawFedDogs

Basically the less processed, the less cooked a food is, the healthier it is. This goes for human food as well as dog food. I don't know whether dehydreaded or freeze dried is more healthy. It probably depends more on the ingredients than the process. The high temp cooking for long periods and the ingredients make kibble much inferior to any of the other dog foods made.

The other thing you need to know about dog food, the more meat the better. The more protein the better. So if one of the products doesn't contain a lot of meat, you will need to add raw meat to it. If it doesn't include enough calcium, you will need to add bones also.


----------



## Huskyluv

Both are really good foods and ingredient wise pretty comparable, of course there are pros and cons to both.

Grandma Lucy's has 6 formulas, all of which are grain free and freeze dried. 
The Honest Kitchen has 6 formulas (one more grain free formula coming out later this year will make it 7 formulas soon), half of which are grain free and half containing grain, and all of them are dehydrated. Both Grandma Lucy's and The Honest Kitchen have 5 complete formulas and 1 pre-mix formula that require the addition of meat. Soon The Honest Kitchen will have 6 complete formulas once their new Zeal formula comes out.

Grandma Lucy's is more expensive (freeze drying as a process alone is more expensive than dehydration) but has more protein sources to choose from including Bison, Venison, Chicken, Lamb, Pork, and add your own meat.

The Honest Kitchen costs less but has fewer protein sources to choose from currently including Chicken, Beef, Turkey, and add your own meat. Later this year their new formula, Zeal, is coming out and is a grain free fish based formula.

I would say that freeze dried is probably ever so slightly better than dehydrated because it involves flash freezing which preserves the food in its state exactly as it is. Dehydration involves using some heat which can alter the food a little. The Honest Kitchen does dehydrate their food at low temperatures though to preserve the nutrients in it as much as possible so when all is said and done, both products are still great and pretty comparable even though they are processed differently.

As far as experience I have not personally fed Grandma Lucy's but I know people who have and they have had nothing but great things to say about it. By the same token those people who have tried both Grandma Lucy's and The Honest Kitchen have shared that they got the same great results with both so eventually ended up either rotating between the two for variety or sticking with The Honest Kitchen simply because it's more affordable and yielded the same results.

I feed The Honest Kitchen to my dogs. I rotate between the complete formulas but I do add raw meat, cooked meat, and canned food to their Honest Kitchen several times a week as well. When we go on vacation or a trip I just feed THK as is since it's so much easier when we're traveling. 

I have also tried Sojos dehydrated dog food which is another comparable product. It costs more than The Honest Kitchen but I got the same results with Sojos that I did with Honest Kitchen so I just stick with THK. Sojos also does not have much to choose from anyway.

Regarding the celery from China, if that really is a deal breaker for you then it might be worth noting that 3 of their formulas do NOT contain celery. Those formulas include Thrive, Verve, and Keen. Furthermore, as of August 2010 The Honest Kitchen is said to stop sourcing celery in China and start sourcing celery from North America. So that should not be a concern for future batches. Truthfully a lot of the food and produce that I eat comes from China and a multitude of Asian countries so I really am not one to worry about it.

I definitely like dehydrated/freeze dried products such as Grandma Lucy's and The Honest Kitchen over premium kibbles like Evo and Orijen because they are less processed thereby preserving more nutrients and have fewer ingredients. Kibbles are processed at high temps thereby destroying more of the nutrients.

I used to feed Innova Evo and am so much happier now with my dogs on The Honest Kitchen. I only wish I had switched long before I did.


----------



## rambo

Huskyluv said:


> Both are really good foods and ingredient wise pretty comparable, of course there are pros and cons to both.
> 
> Grandma Lucy's has 6 formulas, all of which are grain free and freeze dried.
> The Honest Kitchen has 6 formulas (one more grain free formula coming out later this year will make it 7 formulas soon), half of which are grain free and half containing grain, and all of them are dehydrated. Both Grandma Lucy's and The Honest Kitchen have 5 complete formulas and 1 pre-mix formula that require the addition of meat. Soon The Honest Kitchen will have 6 complete formulas once their new Zeal formula comes out.
> 
> Grandma Lucy's is more expensive (freeze drying as a process alone is more expensive than dehydration) but has more protein sources to choose from including Bison, Venison, Chicken, Lamb, Pork, and add your own meat.
> 
> The Honest Kitchen costs less but has fewer protein sources to choose from currently including Chicken, Beef, Turkey, and add your own meat. Later this year their new formula, Zeal, is coming out and is a grain free fish based formula.
> 
> I would say that freeze dried is probably ever so slightly better than dehydrated because it involves flash freezing which preserves the food in its state exactly as it is. Dehydration involves using some heat which can alter the food a little. The Honest Kitchen does dehydrate their food at low temperatures though to preserve the nutrients in it as much as possible so when all is said and done, both products are still great and pretty comparable even though they are processed differently.
> 
> As far as experience I have not personally fed Grandma Lucy's but I know people who have and they have had nothing but great things to say about it. By the same token those people who have tried both Grandma Lucy's and The Honest Kitchen have shared that they got the same great results with both so eventually ended up either rotating between the two for variety or sticking with The Honest Kitchen simply because it's more affordable and yielded the same results.
> 
> I feed The Honest Kitchen to my dogs. I rotate between the complete formulas but I do add raw meat, cooked meat, and canned food to their Honest Kitchen several times a week as well. When we go on vacation or a trip I just feed THK as is since it's so much easier when we're traveling.
> 
> I have also tried Sojos dehydrated dog food which is another comparable product. It costs more than The Honest Kitchen but I got the same results with Sojos that I did with Honest Kitchen so I just stick with THK. Sojos also does not have much to choose from anyway.
> 
> Regarding the celery from China, if that really is a deal breaker for you then it might be worth noting that 3 of their formulas do NOT contain celery. Those formulas include Thrive, Verve, and Keen. Furthermore, as of August 2010 The Honest Kitchen is said to stop sourcing celery in China and start sourcing celery from North America. So that should not be a concern for future batches. Truthfully a lot of the food and produce that I eat comes from China and a multitude of Asian countries so I really am not one to worry about it.
> 
> I definitely like dehydrated/freeze dried products such as Grandma Lucy's and The Honest Kitchen over premium kibbles like Evo and Orijen because they are less processed thereby preserving more nutrients and have fewer ingredients. Kibbles are processed at high temps thereby destroying more of the nutrients.
> 
> I used to feed Innova Evo and am so much happier now with my dogs on The Honest Kitchen. I only wish I had switched long before I did.


Thank you for the very thorough response! From doing some research, it appears that Grandma Lucy's is actually cheaper than the Honest Kitchen. At Complete Petmart, The Honest Kitchen's Force is $79.99 and Embark $89.99 (10 lb. box = 40-43 cups) At onlynaturalpet.com, the Force is $77.99 and Embark $83.99. At the same site, Grandma Lucy's chicken was $57.99 and venison was $87.99. It states their 10 lb. box = 55 pounds of food. Again, thanks to everyone who has responded in this thread. If anyone else has anything else, I'd love to hear it. I think I may start with Grandma Lucy's and see how it goes.


----------



## Huskyluv

If you can get the Grandma Lucy's for cheaper than The Honest Kitchen I would definitely go for it. I would love to feed Grandma Lucy's as part of a rotation but for me it would be more expensive than getting THK. If I could get Grandma Lucy's for about the same price as The Honest Kitchen or less I would definitely buy it. :wink:


----------



## flippedstars

rambo said:


> Do you feed the THK as a stand alone or do you add meat to it? The person I spoke with from Grandma Lucy's said their food is a stand alone. Also, I've read a lot on these two companies the last couple of days, but I'm still not sure I totally understand the benefits of their preparation methods (dehydrated/freeze dried) versus standard kibble. Nutritionally, is it more beneficial than a quality kibble (Acana/Orijen)? If so, why? We've fed our dogs Innova for years, so I'm out of the loop on what all is out there. I read where Innova will be changing their formula January 2011, so I'm starting to look to change because I really don't trust P&G with dog food. I'm debating between THK, Grandma Lucy's, Acana and Orijen. I just want what is best for my dogs and I don't know if I'm putting too much thought into it at this point. From everything I've read on those four foods, it's like splitting hairs. I guess I'm looking for a reason to push me in one direction! Thanks for your response and help!


IMO as others have said, the less processed the better. Thus THK/Grandma Lucy's win out over any kibble any day. We fed Acana for awhile after we found out P & G was buying Innova/Natura Pet out, and I just wasn't happy with it, nor did my dogs like it, and they aren't even picky LOL. 

I do add meat from time to time, or cottage cheese, or eggs, but all of THK formulas are considered "complete" besides "Preference" which is the one you have to add your own meat to. Like Raw Fed Dogs said, the more meat, the better. THK has moderate and appropriate levels of meat based on what we know about dogs, but I like to give a bit extra when it comes to meat because after all, they are dogs. I'm sure you could never add meat though and still have happy healthy thriving dogs


----------



## RichM

flippedstars said:


> We fed Acana for awhile after we found out P & G was buying Innova/Natura Pet out, and I just wasn't happy with it, nor did my dogs like it, and they aren't even picky LOL.


Acana is not made by Natura, it is made by Champion Pet Foods.

Champion Petfoods | Home


----------



## RichM

If anyone is interested there is a 22% discount on all Honest Kitchen products at doggiefood.com

Honest Kitchen

See coupon code under promotions.


----------



## Penny & Maggie's Mom

WOO-HOO!!! Thanks for the heads up. I thought this am I needed to order some more. That's great.


----------



## Huskyluv

RichM said:


> If anyone is interested there is a 22% discount on all Honest Kitchen products at doggiefood.com
> 
> Honest Kitchen
> 
> See coupon code under promotions.


Thank you very much for the heads up! I ordered two more boxes of THK and got an amazing deal! Many many thanks! :biggrin:


----------



## GermanSheperdlover

rambo said:


> We are in the process of switching dog foods and would like any feedback on these two brands. I know there are some differences...Honest Kitchen dehydrates their food and Grandma Lucy's freeze dries their food. I talked to the people at Grandma Lucy's and they say that actually helps the food retain most of its nutrition. The part that concerns me about Honest Kitchen is that they get their ingredients from all over the world....including Asia. Grandma Lucy's ingredients all come from the US. If you've had any experiences with these two brands (good or bad) I would be really appreciative if you could share them. Thanks.


*The BIG issue with Honest Kitchen is they aren't very honest. 1st off they do get some ingredients from China and that comes from their website.. 2. They refuse to say where and who makes this food. Hummm. 3. It is stated on their website that other foods can and should be given while feeding this product, Huh. I well stick with Orijen because they can be trusted.*


----------



## RawFedDogs

GermanSheperdlover said:


> *The BIG issue with Honest Kitchen is they aren't very honest. 1st off they do get some ingredients from China and that comes from their website..*


*

How is that dishonest? They don't deny it do they?




2. They refuse to say where and who makes this food. Hummm.

Click to expand...

Not telling you something is not dishonest. Telling something that is untrue is dishonest.




3. It is stated on their website that other foods can and should be given while feeding this product, Huh.

Click to expand...

How is that dishonest? Telling you it's complete and balanced would be dishonest.

I just don't see anything dishonest here. Are any of these reasons not to buy their food? Possibly ... but not dishonest.*


----------



## beagle10

We have used HK Keen and Thrive with lots of success (the other formulas are way over the top expensive). I just received my bag of Grandma Lucy's to try. Although I am a huge HK fan, and low protein was always a slight concern and I usually added yogurt or canned wellness (95% meat) to it. But my dog did SO well on it. I kept kibble in his diet because we travel and his boarding spot will do kibble only, but he gets digestive upset if he gets only dry kibble, poor guy. 
I have to say, the Grandma Lucy's is amazing. It smells even better than the HK, and the chicken formula has 26% protein compared to 21% in HK Keen, and has big chunks of chicken which cut up easily after water has been added. I just ordered some from drugstore.com at $19.99 for a 3 lb (=17 lbs ) bag. Its totally cheaper than the $28 I pay for HK (w/ out shipping or tax). I found it in a local store for $25, still cheaper. Plus I feel like I am paying for more valuable ingredients with Lucy's, since Keen has both oats AND potato. I love that it is only US ingredients and hormone free meats. Yay!


----------



## flippedstars

RichM said:


> Acana is not made by Natura, it is made by Champion Pet Foods.
> 
> Champion Petfoods | Home


I know  I said we fed Acana for awhile AFTER we found out P & G took over Natura. Meaning I knew it was not made by Natura. I don't feed foods to my dogs made by major corporations. Bad.


----------



## GermanSheperdlover

RawFedDogs said:


> How is that dishonest? They don't deny it do they?
> 
> 
> ot telling you something is not dishonest. Telling something that is untrue is dishonest.
> 
> 
> 
> How is that dishonest? Telling you it's complete and balanced would be dishonest.
> 
> I just don't see anything dishonest here. Are any of these reasons not to buy their food? Possibly ... but not dishonest.


Go to their website,,, Only abady has more bull shi!.. Never mind, I forgot, you are, the, ""raw feeder""....


----------



## RawFedDogs

GermanSheperdlover said:


> Go to their website,,, Only abady has more bull shi!.. Never mind, I forgot, you are, the, ""raw feeder""....


I asked you 3 direct questions about statements you made. Why don't you just answer my questions? Sending me to their website is not answering, it is avoiding answering. And yes I am. :smile:


----------



## flippedstars

Bottom line is, bull shi& or not, my dogs are doing very well on the food, not everyone can chop up a chicken every night, nor do they want to. My dogs were on the highest quality kibble and since starting HK their fur is even softer than it was before, their stools are more formed and healthy, and the little one's seemingly endless tummy troubles are gone and so are his ear infections. Tearing and tear staining has reduced as well. IMO, the results speak for themselves.


----------



## Guest

flippedstars said:


> Bottom line is, bull shi& or not, my dogs are doing very well on the food, not everyone can chop up a chicken every night, nor do they want to. My dogs were on the highest quality kibble and since starting HK their fur is even softer than it was before, their stools are more formed and healthy, and the little one's seemingly endless tummy troubles are gone and so are his ear infections. Tearing and tear staining has reduced as well. IMO, the results speak for themselves.



I'm glad to hear this. Thank you for sharing.


----------



## Doc

Don't knock it until you've tried it! IMO, HK has it's place in a raw feeding program. It is far better than most premium kibble.

My dawgs love it, along with raw chicken, pork, beef, roadkill ...


----------



## frenchies

*Gl vs hk*

My GL's is being shipped Monday. I can't wait to try it. Allergies and skin issues have plagued my little girl and I'm keeping my fingers crossed that they will clear up with the new food. I hope she likes it! :tongue:


----------



## Huskyluv

GermanSheperdlover said:


> 2. They refuse to say where and who makes this food. Hummm.


ALL companies have proprietary information that they keep to themselves. But, from THK's website under the FAQ section:

_*"What can you tell me about The Honest Kitchen’s manufacturing?
*
Our company is privately owned and our proprietary manufacturing process takes place in a human food producing, FDA inspected facility here in in the United States, in Illinois and California. The facility names are confidential due to privacy for the other high-end human foods that are also made there, as well as for homeland security. Our California facility has however been toured by Nancy Kerns, editor of the Whole Dog Journal and Sabine Contreras of the Dog Food Project. No other pet products are made in the facilities that make The Honest Kitchen’s products. Humans also taste our finished products as part of our normal QC process at the manufacturing plant and we also taste all raw ingredients during R & D stages, too."_





GermanSheperdlover said:


> 3. It is stated on their website that other foods can and should be given while feeding this product, Huh.


Actually that is one of the things that I love about The Honest Kitchen. I've never been one to feed only one thing even when I fed kibble. I wish all dog food companies would encourage adding other foods to their diet. I do not believe that one thing and one thing only is a truly complete diet...I think most of us here think the same. Even more encouraging is that THK encourages supplementing their formulas with raw.

Just because they encourage adding additional meat to their food doesn't mean it is required. Nothing wrong with clearly informing consumers about the options they have with feeding THK food.

This is also from their website under the FAQ section:

_*"Do I have to add extras like meat or other foods?*

No, adding other ingredients to our diets (except Preference*) is not necessary and our foods are formulated to meet the AAFCO Nutrient Profiles. However, many of our customers love to augment their companion’s meals with home-made extras. We encourage this because we think pet’s deserve variety in their diets just like we humans do. Our foods have balanced calcium: phosphorus ratios to allow you to add in extras in moderate amounts without throwing these important minerals outside their optimum range of 1:1 to 2:1 parts Calcium: Phosphorus.

*If I want to add extras, what do you recommend?*

You can really add as many or as few additional ingredients as you wish, depending on time and convenience, if you are using our ‘complete and balanced’ diets. Popular add-ins are meat, raw meaty bones, cottage cheese, plain yogurt, veggies and fruits. We recommend 1/2 to 1 cup of extra ingredients for each dry-measured cup of the food. A more active dog would have these quantities added to the regular food serving. For a less active or senior pet, you can cut back the amount of Honest Kitchen food to allow for the additional ingredients being included, and prevent the calories from increasing too much.

*Using Preference, where additional protein is mandatory to create a balanced meal, we suggest a minimum 1 to 2 cups of extras, to be added to each dry-measured cup."_




GermanSheperdlover said:


> I well stick with Orijen because they can be trusted.


Definitely stick with foods you trust. I trust Orijen too, but I also trust The Honest Kitchen. Have you ever brought up your concerns to the company? I've talked with a couple HK employees personally plenty of times and always get prompt, courteous, personal and informative responses...every single time.

Personal correspondence with the company aside, my dogs have been the proof that makes me a believer with THK. It's helped one of mine with joint problems, it's also helped immensely with my other dog with irritable bowel, and my third dog it has really helped with his sensitive stomach as well. And to top it all off it's the one food that all three of them, despite all their different issues and sensitivities, do fantastic on.

I'm not here to argue with you or try to convince you to like The Honest Kitchen. We all have our different preferences and I respect yours as I know you respect mine. I'm just trying to address some of your concerns. :smile:


----------



## rambo

Well, I've been using the Grandma Lucy's Chicken for a week now with mixed results. Three of our dogs love it! However, our fourth one, who has never been picky and eats everything, does not like it. I believe it's the strong garlic smell from the food. She has had canned food before, so it's not a texture thing. She smells it, picks at it, and that's about it. I checked Grandma Lucy's other foods and they all have garlic in them. Has anyone experienced this before? I checked Honest Kitchen's Force and it does not have garlic. I'm thinking about getting a small box of it and giving it a shot. I'm just shocked that she won't eat it. She eats everything in the yard, etc. Any suggestions?


----------



## chowder

I just got a bag of Primal for the dogs to try and they went crazy for it. It's not as convenient as the freeze dried since you have to keep it frozen, but they loved their first taste of it. I also got a sample of Bravo that the store gave to me try for free with three burgers in the package and I"ll try those tomorrow. Maybe there is a store near you with samples you can try before you buy a whole lot of it.


----------



## Huskyluv

rambo said:


> Well, I've been using the Grandma Lucy's Chicken for a week now with mixed results. Three of our dogs love it! However, our fourth one, who has never been picky and eats everything, does not like it. I believe it's the strong garlic smell from the food. She has had canned food before, so it's not a texture thing. She smells it, picks at it, and that's about it. I checked Grandma Lucy's other foods and they all have garlic in them. Has anyone experienced this before? I checked Honest Kitchen's Force and it does not have garlic. I'm thinking about getting a small box of it and giving it a shot. I'm just shocked that she won't eat it. She eats everything in the yard, etc. Any suggestions?


I've not tried Grandma Lucy's with my pack before. But before actually buying THK I would see about getting the sample to see if your picky one will even eat it. If you can't get samples locally you can always call or email the company and they will send free samples to you. I requested samples of THK to try before buying and received my samples in the mail in about a week. This would save you the trouble of having to buy a box and then having to return it if she doesn't like it. Just a suggestion.


----------



## rambo

I think the Grandma Lucy's is actually making my one dog sick. When we first started to introduce it (1/4 Grandma Lucy's w/ 3/4 Innova) we noticed she was starting to throw up shortly after eating it. At first, we thought she had ate something outside that was irritating her stomach (this has happened before). After the second day of this happening, we took her to the vet just to be on the safe side. They said there could be lots of reasons for the throwing up. They took an x-ray just to make sure nothing was stuck in her belly that could be causing it. That came up negative. They gave her a few shots and gave us some bland canned food to give her for a few days. She was back to normal within a few days. Thinking it was just a bacteria she had picked up outside, we began to incorporate the Grandma Lucy's back in yesterday. Last night she threw up her food again. The common denominator in all of this is that food. By looking at the ingredients, the only things I can think of that is making her sick is the garlic. There are not a lot of ingredients in the food and she's had most of them before (isolated). As I said earlier, the other ones love it. Back to the drawing board......


----------



## Huskyluv

Goodness, I would definitely get her off the GL right away. Are they doing okay on the Innova? Just wondering if they could possibly stay on that if they are doing well on it. If it ain't broke...


----------



## zoeyluv

newbie!

We have used HK in the past, this month we have switched to Only Natural's Turkey and Sweet Potato.

I don't if it was an outdoor allergen or something in HK but my poor husky was always itchy. Since switching she has been doing very well. I need to get off my duff and compare the two foods to see if there is a visible ingredient difference.


----------



## allisonglass123456

Let me tell you our true story of using Grandma Lucy's chicken and how it resolved my Yellow Labs Hi cholesterol & Hi triglycerides in less than 5 months. She had recurring Lipomas and had 3 different surgeries over 3 years to remove them b/c there was always 1-2 located at her arm &/or back leg where it growing bigger could interfere w/ mobility. After less than 5 mos on Grandma Lucy's Chicken, feed 2 x's a day (plus I gave her 1 Kirkland 1000mg Fish Oil pill & 1 Kirkland Signature Extra Strength Glucosamine Chondroitin pill w/ each meal since she weighs 70lbs +) my dog's cholesterol fell over 120 pts and her triglycerides went down from high range to low normal range. She also lost weight from 79lbs to 66lbs, which I believe was in part due to the very low fat of the food plus she runs 4 miles a week on top of walking 2 miles a day. I started adding 1 tablespoon of olive oil to her food at night which has helped her maintain her 70lbs. Now after over 1 1/2yrs on grandma Lucy's dog food, her lipid panels are fine and she has NO LIPOMAS.

I know that Grandma Lucy's is not cheap but I figure it comes out to about $2.10 a pound which compares to Halo dog food. Compare to 3 surgeries that cost over $1500 each time plus the misery my poor baby suffered & our worry of how the anesthesia would hurt her; I feel the extra cost is worth it especially given that she is at least 8 yrs old now.

I have also read that people use it for dogs w/ Cushings disease b/c it is a low phosphorus food.

My husband has tasted it and says it tastes like regular chicken stew that needs some salt/ seasoning- so it is real food.

A friend who has always fed his 3 small/ med dogs Purina Pro-Plan said his dogs would not eat GL so I think it depends on the dog. 

It is possible that some dogs are more sensitive to garlic etc. If you have a pure breed dog then look up diets for your breed. I say that b/c Dalmatians have very sensitive stomachs & many diet restrictions.

Also at the GL direct website they offer sample sizes of each flavor. If you look at each one you can see that it is NOT the same exact ingredients w/ just a different meat. Lamb & Ckn don't have sweet potatoes but Venison & Pork have both sweet potatoes & pumpkin.

I am hoping to try Honest Kitchen to see if there is a difference for my dogs.


----------



## truthdog

Both of these foods are expensive crap. Don't waste your money. Go to a competitive event like agility, fly-ball, hunt trials, dockdogs and see what people feed stressed and heavily trained dogs.
Go to just a plain show and see what those pretty dogs eat.

These foods like HK and GL's are made for single women and childless couples that think their dog is a child.

Sorry to be blunt.


----------



## Tobi

truthdog said:


> Both of these foods are expensive crap. Don't waste your money. Go to a competitive event like agility, fly-ball, hunt trials, dockdogs and see what people feed stressed and heavily trained dogs.
> Go to just a plain show and see what those pretty dogs eat.
> 
> These foods like HK and GL's are made for single women and childless couples that think their dog is a child.
> 
> Sorry to be blunt.


I'm curious as to why i would be put into a category of childless couples, and single women if i was to feed this food? 
This food is better than most kibbles out there that people are feeding their show dogs.

I know many many many show dog keepers, and guess what, proven champs... they are fed pro plan, and Iams... as much as it bothers me to say that champions eat that crap... they do, and they win shows...

Those "pretty" dogs at those shows are usually eating pretty low end food. I'm sure some others know people that do agility, fly-ball, hunt trials, and dockdogs, and they can probably attest that not every pretty dog, or hard working trained dog is eating the best kibble on the market. Many of the owners of these pretty show dogs even buy into the promotors of those shows thinking they know what they are talking about, and heck.. they fund these huge shows, they must know what they are talking about!

your arguments not great the food isn't even that terrible... it's expensive yes, but it's much better than iams, and proplan.


----------



## stajbs

Truthdog, I am sorry but I am not convinced either of these foods is crap, that's a fairly strong statement to make. I've participated in competitive weight pulling, recreational mushing and a few 4/5 mile sprint races with our siberians in the past. Back in those days our dogs were conditioned and were not eating the greatest of dog foods, nor were they eating the worst by any means, at the time they were fed Annamaet primarily, but this was before their grain free line was developed. In late fall and winter they were supplemented. Most of the competitive folks adjusted diets for dogs and for the demands of training/stress on their bodies, during periods of training and competing. Obviously, in our case the furkids were on vacation each summer. If we were actively working our dogs I would not hesitate to consider these foods, and during times of competition and training I would be adding some extra meat/protein and fat. Just suggesting these folks could be feeding Pro Plan/Iams and supplementing also.


----------



## truthdog

stajbs said:


> Truthdog, I am sorry but I am not convinced either of these foods is crap, that's a fairly strong statement to make. I've participated in competitive weight pulling, recreational mushing and a few 4/5 mile sprint races with our siberians in the past. Back in those days our dogs were conditioned and were not eating the greatest of dog foods, nor were they eating the worst by any means, at the time they were fed Annamaet primarily, but this was before their grain free line was developed. In late fall and winter they were supplemented. Most of the competitive folks adjusted diets for dogs and for the demands of training/stress on their bodies, during periods of training and competing. Obviously, in our case the furkids were on vacation each summer. If we were actively working our dogs I would not hesitate to consider these foods, and during times of competition and training I would be adding some extra meat/protein and fat. Just suggesting these folks could be feeding Pro Plan/Iams and supplementing also.


If you have been involved in mushing you know darn well which dry foods these dogs eat. It is laughable to suggest that these dogs would eat a food like this. Great marketing but a crap diet. You live in PA, so the #1 food is made right there.


----------



## cprcheetah

truthdog said:


> Both of these foods are expensive crap. Don't waste your money. Go to a competitive event like agility, fly-ball, hunt trials, dockdogs and see what people feed stressed and heavily trained dogs.
> Go to just a plain show and see what those pretty dogs eat.
> 
> These foods like HK and GL's are made for single women and childless couples that think their dog is a child.
> 
> Sorry to be blunt.


Wow! OUCH! I know many people who have CHILDREN who think of their dogs as children, and I know many people (myself included) who are struggling to have children who think of their dogs as the only children they may be able to have. I have used both GL & HK and know of MANY people who use HK with GREAT results, I know of several show dog people who use it with big dogs, and love what it's done for their dogs. I have a friend who shows her chihuahua in agility and her dog eats HK in addition to adding raw to the diet.


----------



## magicre

truthdog said:


> Both of these foods are expensive crap. Don't waste your money. Go to a competitive event like agility, fly-ball, hunt trials, dockdogs and see what people feed stressed and heavily trained dogs.
> Go to just a plain show and see what those pretty dogs eat.
> 
> These foods like HK and GL's are made for single women and childless couples that think their dog is a child.
> 
> Sorry to be blunt.


single women and childless couples? 

do you really think a company would be so business stupid as to market only to these two categories?

really?


----------



## stajbs

Ahhhh Truthdog I see you have popped out of the woodwork with a new screen name perhaps?? We've chatted before about this and I won't go down that road with you again. Annamaet's grain free foods are decent foods, I said that before, but to say that HK and GL foods are trash are strong words. If I were still running and not caring for two seniors and their health needs/diet needs now I would not just toss these two options out the window as garbage. I would consider them with supplementation. Oh, and please lets not re-hash Rob's racing record, I am well aware of it.....good for him. That does not mean there are not other options.


----------



## baggie

Genetics obviously plays a role. There are humans that exercise religiously, watch their diet, avoid hazardous behaviors (alcohol, smoking, etc) and still die young of natural causes. There are also people that smoke/drink like there's no tomorrow and look great for a time and even live a long life.

All that to say, just using common sense will tell you what diet is appropriate for you and your pet. We can't control everything in our lives (and our loved ones), but it doesn't mean we shouldn't do our best. Using anecdotal evidence here and there really doesn't mean anything. 

Quick question: what is the average age of dogs used in field trials/dog shows/sledding? I'm admittedly ignorant, and just curious.


----------



## stajbs

Baggie, can only speak for my sibes/rec mushing but I like to give youngsters at 10 months-2 years a start on bicycles on the flat, for short distances only, and with seasoned runners beside them. I would hazard a guess that the best ages for running sled dogs would be from like age 3-8/9 depending on the dog, their temperament/personality/maturity/desire to run etc. Also, obviously depends on the dogs health, confirmation/ability to work in harness, and the type of racing you choose to do, such as sprint, mid-distance, long distance like Yukon Quest/Iditarod etc. My guys were still running at age 10, but shorter distances in non-competitive situations...fun runs. The IWPA does not allow dogs age 12 and over to weight pull, a good rule in my view. I have had my one senior who loved weight pulling, pull in the novice class, up to 500lbs but his time didn't count, he wanted to take the cart through a walk in the park. That boy was a stump puller, would put his head down, lean into the harness and just keep going and going. I can't speak for dogs in the other sports, and I only speak from my own personal experience and that of friends who have run siberians and some alaskan huskies.


----------



## kevin bradley

you know what pisses me off? People who drop talking points, strong statements, etc., without any details or alternative solutions. IE-This food "sucks" because my freaking sled dogs don't eat it. 

Do you realize if you were in the scientific community, you would get laughed out of the room for work like that? 

Jesus Christ, I'm willing to listen to your point of view if you come to the table with something intelligent. I'll even listen to why you think Honest Kitchen sucks but dropping a bomb like "it sucks because my Dog that pulls a sled thru snow doesn't eat it because I don't give it to him." 

Frankly, you're lucky I even stopped to reply to this garbage.

note to all-this was directed at truthdog.


----------



## wags

truthdog said:


> These foods like HK and GL's are made for single women and childless couples that think their dog is a child.
> 
> Sorry to be blunt.


What the hecks that suppose to mean???????????????????????????????????????????? Blunt????Or just plain old rude????????????????????? HUH????????????????????????????????????????????????????????


----------



## truthdog

You will find that single women and childless couples, young couples in particular obsess about
their pets as if they were children. Some pet food companies target this weakness. Not meant to be rude, it is the truth.


----------



## Tobi

truthdog said:


> You will find that single women and childless couples, young couples in particular obsess about
> their pets as if they were children. Some pet food companies target this weakness. Not meant to be rude, it is the truth.


I'm a male, and i feed raw because i obsess about my dogs health, and well being. Your "truths" are simply your "opinions".

Not meant to be rude.... it's the truth.:dance:


----------



## truthdog

There are always exceptions but generally you will find this to be the case. You will also find that all this obsession is just not worth the time or money. Your dog isn't any healthier and won't live 
any longer than a dog eating Pro Plan or even Sportmix. In fact, many raw fed dogs eat 
diets that are out of balance and deficient in many nutrients. Many are much worse off.


----------



## Caty M

Truthdog- I agree that a non balanced raw diet is terrible for dogs. Just tossing ground beef is NOT a good diet. A balanced prey model raw diet is the best you can feed, barring whole prey.

And I disagree that any old kibble is better than the premium- my cats have done a million times better on Orijen than they ever did on cheaper brands. No more UTIs... and I know many with dogs that have the same result.


----------



## wags

Truthdog~ A friend of my sons in her early 20's adopted a black lab mix from the shelter and is feeding him Kirkland chicken from costco she runs the dog with her and so far is doing great with the dog.My son actually helped her by training the dog. I don't think she's obsessed nor is she a fanatic, she doesn't treat the dog as her child,(maybe she's an exception to the rule though) but she sure does like the dog a lot., and the dog comes from an abused household, so she is doing very well with the dog. I think though that she is really close with the pup. She does adore him just not as she would her own if she had her own child. She understands he's a dog and is very very devoted to him , his health and all his well being, as many women, childless couples and young couples are. So as for her feeding the Kirkland I think she's doing great! Giving the dog a second chance, even though she's not over obsessing and treating the dog as her own child. Yep, so there are many different ways to look at differnt type situations. But saying that women, childless couples ,and young couples are in a general category of people who treat their dogs as children,(not allof them do) (but they can be very fond of the pups) is really not true of all people in this category, this is just your opinion. as for them going for weak people as you say nope not always true. They aren't all that weak!


----------



## truthdog

Caty M said:


> Truthdog- I agree that a non balanced raw diet is terrible for dogs. Just tossing ground beef is NOT a good diet. A balanced prey model raw diet is the best you can feed, barring whole prey.
> 
> And I disagree that any old kibble is better than the premium- my cats have done a million times better on Orijen than they ever did on cheaper brands. No more UTIs... and I know many with dogs that have the same result.


Well the data does not support what many believe. There is virtually no correlation between price and actual nutritive quality from mid-priced foods up. Mid-priced being 75 cents - $1lb. Most of the price of dog food is transportation, packaging and marketing. The cost of ingredients from brand to brand are almost identical. Orijen buys it chicken and turkey meal from the same place as virtually every other major brand, which is a US company down south.

Trust me I know.

Compared to cats, dogs are a piece of cake to feed because they have the digestive system of a scavenger, which means they can thrive on a wide variety of foods. They are not sensitive to ash like cats are.

Unfortunately, people believe the problems caused by bad genetics, over vaccinating, early 
neutering and lack of exercise are diet related.


----------



## magicre

truthdog said:


> You will find that single women and childless couples, young couples in particular obsess about
> their pets as if they were children. Some pet food companies target this weakness. Not meant to be rude, it is the truth.


this is just getting funnier and funnier.

now it's a weakness for pet food companies to exploit.......certainly there is a better word for you to use than weakness.....

people who feed kibble do so, not because they are young and childless,

not because they are single mothers......

they feed kibble because they feed kibble.....

pet food companies don't just want the single mothers and childless couples...they want everyone...and to single out two markets would be, as i said before, business stupid.

i hardly think it's a weakness to be single, female or childless and young....

agreed that marketing has to do with age, location, gender, finances, etc....but certainly being a single mother or a young childless couple isn't the only criteria and companies don't see it as a weakness. they see it as cha ching.


----------



## frogdog

truthdog said:


> Both of these foods are expensive crap. Don't waste your money. Go to a competitive event like agility, fly-ball, hunt trials, dockdogs and see what people feed stressed and heavily trained dogs.
> Go to just a plain show and see what those pretty dogs eat.
> 
> These foods like HK and GL's are made for single women and childless couples that think their dog is a child.
> 
> Sorry to be blunt.


This is hilarious and deserves nothing but a good laugh :laugh:..."too ridiculous for words".

By the way, sorry to be blunt...complete ignorance.


----------



## catahoulamom

truthdog said:


> Trust me I know.


Yeah guys, trust TRUTHDOG, he knows!


----------



## Tobi

truthdog said:


> There are always exceptions but generally you will find this to be the case. You will also find that all this obsession is just not worth the time or money. Your dog isn't any healthier and won't live
> any longer than a dog eating Pro Plan or even Sportmix. In fact, many raw fed dogs eat
> diets that are out of balance and deficient in many nutrients. Many are much worse off.


This obsession is well worth my dogs health, people on this forum feeding raw diets are not people that are going to just give raw hamburger and call it a raw diet, you're talking to people that self educate them self through many different channels, you might try doing the same. show me scientific proof that my dog isn't any healthier, or won't live as long as a dog eating low end kibble and by products. 



truthdog said:


> Well the data does not support what many believe. There is virtually no correlation between price and actual nutritive quality from mid-priced foods up. Mid-priced being 75 cents - $1lb. Most of the price of dog food is transportation, packaging and marketing. The cost of ingredients from brand to brand are almost identical. Orijen buys it chicken and turkey meal from the same place as virtually every other major brand, which is a US company down south.
> 
> Trust me I know.
> 
> Compared to cats, dogs are a piece of cake to feed because they have the digestive system of a scavenger, which means they can thrive on a wide variety of foods. They are not sensitive to ash like cats are.
> 
> Unfortunately, people believe the problems caused by bad genetics, over vaccinating, early
> neutering and lack of exercise are diet related.


Cite sources for your claims. nobody is going to be like omg... this guy knows... he said trust me!!! 
"Trust me I know" usually correlates to "I'm full of shit, but looking to seem smart on a board that i know little about" :ban:


----------



## Scarlett_O'

And dogs dont "thrive" on scavenging and eating "wide variety of foods".....they SURVIVE...but that isnt a life that I would EVER doom my pet CARNIVORES too!!! I want my boys and girls to thrive because they are getting a species appropriate feeding plan!

And like David said "Trust me I know" usually means that the words that are coming out of the person's mouth are no better then what comes out of the other end!:wink:


----------



## stajbs

He's Back!!! lol Will not smack forehead tonight!!


----------



## xellil

Well, since I've missed alot of his posts I thought i might be missing some kind of link to studies or some other proof that at least was SOMETHING besides "you are an idiot and I am the GOD of dog food so you better believe me" so i went back through his posts but I didn't see anything.


----------



## xellil

magicre said:


> i hardly think it's a weakness to be single, female or childless and young....


Single females and childless couples are pathetic, stupid, and gullible with no lives outside their dogs. I wonder how many people on this board were insulted by his statement.

Shoot, I am neither single or childless, and I'm pretty pissed by that statement.

Edited to add: Not what you said, what he said.


----------



## meggels

truthdog said:


> There are always exceptions but generally you will find this to be the case. You will also find that all this obsession is just not worth the time or money. Your dog isn't any healthier and won't live
> any longer than a dog eating Pro Plan or even Sportmix. In fact, many raw fed dogs eat
> diets that are out of balance and deficient in many nutrients. Many are much worse off.


uhhh...dunno how you figure that. I know many dogs that are fed purina, eukanuba, iams, etc and they die by age 11.

My holistic nutrition "guru" feeds his dogs raw for many many years now and he's got his labs living until 16-17 years old.


----------



## PDXdogmom

It's too bad that Truthdog's style of posting is so inflammatory to so many people; because there actually are some elements of truth in what he/she posts.

From post #47:
"_Most of the price of dog food is transportation, packaging and marketing. The cost of ingredients from brand to brand are almost identical. Orijen buys it chicken and turkey meal from the same place as virtually every other major brand, which is a US company down south._"

_"Unfortunately, people believe the problems caused by bad genetics, over vaccinating, early 
neutering and lack of exercise are diet related."_


----------



## magicre

PDXdogmom said:


> It's too bad that Truthdog's style of posting is so inflammatory to so many people; because there actually are some elements of truth in what he/she posts.
> 
> From post #47:
> "_Most of the price of dog food is transportation, packaging and marketing. The cost of ingredients from brand to brand are almost identical. Orijen buys it chicken and turkey meal from the same place as virtually every other major brand, which is a US company down south._"
> 
> _"Unfortunately, people believe the problems caused by bad genetics, over vaccinating, early
> neutering and lack of exercise are diet related."_


i didn't miss those statements and it would have made for some great discussion had it not been a minor addendum to his agenda, and i don't even want to know what his agenda is, other than to be contentious.

he believes he is a marketing guru and business maven...and i believe we have a failure to communicate and a lack of cohesive statements.


----------



## Caty M

PDXdogmom said:


> It's too bad that Truthdog's style of posting is so inflammatory to so many people; because there actually are some elements of truth in what he/she posts.
> 
> From post #47:
> "_Most of the price of dog food is transportation, packaging and marketing. The cost of ingredients from brand to brand are almost identical. Orijen buys it chicken and turkey meal from the same place as virtually every other major brand, which is a US company down south._"
> 
> _*"Unfortunately, people believe the problems caused by bad genetics, over vaccinating, early
> neutering and lack of exercise are diet related."*_


Umm.. don't you get that they ALL play a part? I'd argue that diet is probably the #1 most important thing when talking about health. Dogs do not just need 'nutrients' regardless of ingredients. There are MANY enzymes, compounds that haven't been discovered yet, scientists DON'T KNOW how different compounds react to eachother and in what proportion are needed. This is for humans as well as dogs. The most logical thing to do would be to feed a species appropriate diet... barring that, a diet that most closely resembles one. A big old bag of corn and rice, no matter how many vitamins and minerals are added, is NOT an appropriate diet for a carnivore, or ANY animal.


----------



## PDXdogmom

Caty M said:


> Umm.. don't you get that they ALL play a part? I'd argue that diet is probably the #1 most important thing when talking about health. Dogs do not just need 'nutrients' regardless of ingredients. There are MANY enzymes, compounds that haven't been discovered yet, scientists DON'T KNOW how different compounds react to eachother and in what proportion are needed. This is for humans as well as dogs. The most logical thing to do would be to feed a species appropriate diet... barring that, a diet that most closely resembles one. A big old bag of corn and rice, no matter how many vitamins and minerals are added, is NOT an appropriate diet for a carnivore, or ANY animal.


The sentences you bolded in post #59 were not written by me. I simply included them in my post to show how there is an element of truth to them. I agree with you and to some extent the writer of those sentences. Food is the number one medicine for humans or canines in my book. But it can't always alter bad effects of genetics, lack of exercise or over-vaccination.


----------



## Caty M

I know they weren't. But what he was insinuating was that ingredients in food don't cause problems, lack of nutrients does... when obviously diet plays a HUGE role in most prevalent problems in dogs nowadays.. arthritis, cancers etc. Over vax does also, as can bad genetics. But to say diet can't be blamed for that is ludicrous.


----------



## truthdog

Caty M said:


> Umm.. don't you get that they ALL play a part? I'd argue that diet is probably the #1 most important thing when talking about health. Dogs do not just need 'nutrients' regardless of ingredients. There are MANY enzymes, compounds that haven't been discovered yet, scientists DON'T KNOW how different compounds react to eachother and in what proportion are needed. This is for humans as well as dogs. The most logical thing to do would be to feed a species appropriate diet... barring that, a diet that most closely resembles one. A big old bag of corn and rice, no matter how many vitamins and minerals are added, is NOT an appropriate diet for a carnivore, or ANY animal.


You are entirely wrong. Everyone knows that canine diabetes is a problem right? A huge problem, right? Neutered and spayed dogs are at least 3 times as likely to get diabetes as intact dogs. Fact. Neutered males are 5 times as likely to get bone cancer and 3 times as likely to get 
hemangiosarcoma. Bad coat has more to do with when or if a dog has been spayed or neutered than anything. Over vaccination is linked to more medical problems than I care to mention.

A dog should eat a quality diet, of course, but many many problems are caused by stupid
owners not Purina.

Don't think that giving a dog a bunch of silly expensive foods and supplements will help these 
problems.


----------



## Caty M

truthdog said:


> You are entirely wrong. Everyone knows that canine diabetes is a problem right? A huge problem, right? Neutered and spayed dogs are at least 3 times as likely to get diabetes as intact dogs. Fact. Neutered males are 5 times as likely to get bone cancer and 3 times as likely to get
> hemangiosarcoma. Bad coat has more to do with when or if a dog has been spayed or neutered than anything. Over vaccination is linked to more medical problems than I care to mention.
> 
> A dog should eat a quality diet, of course, but many many problems are caused by stupid
> owners not Purina.
> 
> Don't think that giving a dog a bunch of silly expensive foods and supplements will help these
> problems.


I am quite aware that speutering, especially early, can cause many problems especially in larger breeds. I am electing to not spay my dog for these reasons :smile:

BUT... Canine diabetes can also be caused by taxing the pancreas... done by feeding crappy dog foods high in carbs. Dogs just aren't supposed to do digest carbs. They are not built for it.

There have been MANY people here switching from a low or moderate quality food to a high quality or raw... and have seen great improvement in their dogs. 

I'm not a giant fan of the foods in the OP (sorry, just don't consider a processed food to be "raw") but I do think the lower the carbs the better. A diet that encourages the use of fresh meats (HK does I believe in some of their formulas recommend cooked or raw ground meats) is better in my book.


----------



## RawFedDogs

truthdog said:


> You are entirely wrong. Everyone knows that canine diabetes is a problem right? A huge problem, right? Neutered and spayed dogs are at least 3 times as likely to get diabetes as intact dogs. Fact. Neutered males are 5 times as likely to get bone cancer and 3 times as likely to get
> hemangiosarcoma. Bad coat has more to do with when or if a dog has been spayed or neutered than anything. Over vaccination is linked to more medical problems than I care to mention.


What you say may be true or may not be. I would like to investigate it further. Where do your numbers come from?


----------



## Dude and Bucks Mamma

truthdog said:


> Both of these foods are expensive crap. Don't waste your money. Go to a competitive event like agility, fly-ball, hunt trials, dockdogs and see what people feed stressed and heavily trained dogs.
> Go to just a plain show and see what those pretty dogs eat.
> 
> These foods like HK and GL's are made for single women and childless couples that think their dog is a child.
> 
> Sorry to be blunt.


I'd just like to add that my show dog (that are, believe it or not "heavily trained"), a bluetick coonhound, eats raw, not crap food, and gets compliments wherever he goes. I do not believe for a second that he would look as stunning as he does if he were on a crap food. So... I own a performance dog who does not get fed crap food and I know I am not the only one on this forum who does.


----------



## Hadley

Dude and Bucks Mamma said:


> I'd just like to add that my show dog (that are, believe it or not "heavily trained"), a bluetick coonhound, eats raw, not crap food, and gets compliments wherever he goes. I do not believe for a second that he would look as stunning as he does if he were on a crap food. So... I own a performance dog who does not get fed crap food and I know I am not the only one on this forum who does.


Yeah I found that comment strange. The ONLY performance dogs I know who are fed what I consider crappy kibble (Euk, Purina, etc) are some show dogs. I also know show dogs who are fed Orijen, Acana, Go, Fromm 4Star, and even raw. I know a couple who get Honest Kitchen too. The flyball dogs I know are fed a mix between high quality kibble (mostly Go) and raw. Nearly every single agility dog in my group is fed raw and my own performance dog is fed a mix between raw and kibble (I get my food for free, so it's what is affordable for me right now). My other dog who is just a pet gets all raw. Most of the sled dogs I know are fed a raw diet as well...


----------



## flippedstars

Dude and Bucks Mamma said:


> I'd just like to add that my show dog (that are, believe it or not "heavily trained"), a bluetick coonhound, eats raw, not crap food, and gets compliments wherever he goes. I do not believe for a second that he would look as stunning as he does if he were on a crap food. So... I own a performance dog who does not get fed crap food and I know I am not the only one on this forum who does.


I show chihuahuas and am basically accosted ringside for 'the secret' of what I'm feeding, or how my dog is so white with no tear stains, or why my little red bitch 'simply glows'...judges comment on their clean teeth, clear eyes, and bright coats, without fail.

I feed PMR to my show chihuahuas and pups are weaned directly onto PMR/Stella & Chewy's/THK/Ziwipeak (so that their new owners have options as far as what to feed).

Feeding PMR absolutely DOES make a difference in how a dog looks and even in it's build, believe it or not chihuahuas ARE supposed to have muscle and mine do unlike many of the purina pudgies running around the ring with dull coats and runny eyes. 

We win a lot of the time purely because my dogs look better ha-ha.


----------



## meggels

"purina pudgies" omg....i'm dying of laughter


----------



## KittyKat

Yup! My dog not only goes into the ring, but she also lure courses.... and she gets PMR. This HK/GL stuff though seems like it could be a stand in while we are traveling. Frozen chunks of meat are not easy to transport!

Lure Coursing


----------



## flippedstars

KittyKat said:


> Yup! My dog not only goes into the ring, but she also lure courses.... and she gets PMR. This HK/GL stuff though seems like it could be a stand in while we are traveling. Frozen chunks of meat are not easy to transport!
> 
> Lure Coursing


I used THK as my "gateway drug" to raw, and I have to say I still think it's a much better alternative to kibble but damn expensive! I did mix ins though, raw chicken chopped up, beef or lamb or pork chopped up, etc. even traveling you can get relatively small packets of ground meat (I know some don't like to feed this) to mix in. 

For someone just not sure they can do raw, or they are worried about vitamins, balancing, etc. I feel like THK is a good way to slowly learn raw while having the extra confidence of an already balanced meal. Lots of the hardcore people here just shake their heads but I say they need to chill!

We usually bring the freeze dried stella & chewy pucks or Ziwipeak on trips, but throw in chicken wings here or there.


----------



## monkeys23

My two sled dog mutts train in bitesports and eat prey model raw. And let me tell you, this breed type... their bodies do not like processed crap at all. They seem to be much more sensitive to it than other breed types.... my hunch is that is because most mushers/breeders continued to feed raw through kibble development and popularity. They were bred to have whole salmon and other frozen animal parts tossed to them.... not eat overpriced doggie McDonalds.

There is actually an excerpt from Lonsdale's book that cites a study done in sled dogs where the high carb/fiber content in premium kibble actually caused the dogs to bleed from the anus during races. I found that interesting. He then goes on to say that a dog who isn't a performance dog wouldn't be exhibiting those same signs laying ont he couch all day, but that doesn't mean its not still bad...

I tried a box of THK Force. My dog in my avatar was having constipation issues on Acana Grasslands. It fixed the poo issue, but she lost so much muscle, gained fat, and her coat frankly looked like shit. It was greasy and disgusting. I finally stopped and said to myself, wtf am I doing? She would not graze on alfalfa in the pasture, she would catch mice! So I changed to prey model raw. The detox she went through was disgusting and a fantastic illustration of just what nasty crap we put into our animals (and our own bodies with human food!) in the form of unnatural processed foodstuffs. Her coat was never rough, but its so soft now everyone thinks she's a puppy (she is almost 5). She was always muscular and I've never successfully reached her limit athletically, but her mind and drive to work are clearer, stronger, and calmer now and she has filled out with more and much stronger muscle than she's ever had before. And she was already in much better shape than most dogs we see at training (who eat kibble still).

Travel? We go to my mom's every weekend... I stick a cooler in the car with their food. Real tough! Lol.


----------



## PDXdogmom

Regarding post #71: I'm glad that you've found what seems to be working best for your dog. One small note about THK Force that didn't work. I've never tried that one because of the lower protein %, but I have used THK Thrive in the past with success. It has higher protein but no alfalfa, fruits, potato or flax seed. It's the one formula out of all The Honest Kitchen formulas that I'd recommend to someone.


----------

