# One step forward, five steps back... *Rant*



## Makovach

Tucker is going to be the DEATH of me. I am SO ticked off with this boy. He has no medical reasoning to be peeing in the house. He has started peeing in the house just because. I was always told to ignore it and take them out. Not to scold or yell because they will relate it to not being allowed to potty in front of you. Well I'm pretty sure he has related it to he is allowed to go in the house as he pleases. 

He has went three times in the house to day and once in his crate. He has learned from when he was sick that if he goes in the crate, he gets let out so I can clean it. I can't take it any more. 

I am tiered of having to scrub my rugs from him peeing or pooping in the floors every damn day. He goes out to potty about 8 times a day. He goes when we take him out. When we come in, he will go again. I wonder if he is marking? If so, its not going to fly. He only poops in the house if we leave and he gets out. He won't poop in the house with us around. He will stand in front of me and piss in the floor and just stare at me. 

He has also regressed in his training. Recalls were doing okay, but he decided he is going to snap at me when I grab his collar now. I don't get it. He gets food, water, plenty of exercise, plenty of one on one time, plenty of training time, plenty of play time. What is his deal?

He is still walking on a loose lead but refusing to sit when we stop. If you put your hand near him as if you are going to touch him, he will try to snap. 

Again, there is no medical reasoning for this behavior. Its been one month since we took him in for tests and exrays and the whole nine yards and everything was fine. 

I have started to notice in the last week it has been getting worse. We brought Nalah back last Thursday. I'm sorry if some of you disagree, but its my life and my house and I'm in charge and if this is out of jealousy or dominance, its not exceptable. He doesn't call the shots, I do, or am supposed to anyway. 

This boy is driving me up the wall. 

I have (As of five minutes ago) resorted to tethering. He is stuck on my side on a leash. Nothing is going to be tolerated. When I stop, he is expected to sit with out asking. When I tell him down, he is expected to down right away. When I say stay, he better not flinch one muscle. 

I have no idea where I am going wrong with him. I have seriously considered negative enforcement (shock collar). Positive enforcement doesn't seem to be getting us anywhere expect for him thinking he can walk all over us. 

I need help. Terribly. I'm about to loose it.


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## BearMurphy

how would you apply the use of a shock collar in those scenarios? I don't use one, but it is my understanding that people use them after they have trained the behavior and the dog knows what to expect and the trainer can't administer a correction at a distance (which is why hunters use them for their dogs off leash).

I think you said you were working with a trainer. maybe have him come in the home to observe your interaction. With the addition of the third boxer he could be acting out because of change...it's hard to say without observing. what is his body language when he's doing these things? sometimes we train our dog to be bad without knowing it. not saying that's your situation but I just read an example of that in the Patricia McConnell book "The Other End of the Leash: Why We Do What We Do Around Dogs", and it brought my attention to that issue recently. It's a good bookif you haven't already read it


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## Liz

Do you play with him - just him sometimes? The other would be a nice massage. Just sit on the floor and have him lie beside you and just give him a nice massage in large firm circles - start at his neck and go all the way down his body. It will reinforce the calmness you want, it will bond you both and is a pleasant interaction with no real demands which is something you and he might need right now. He is at a difficult stage where he is not really a puppy but not an adult either - you have a teenager. He will challenge you. Make sure playtime and affection are built in with structure and exercise, exercise and more exercise. Is he neutered?


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## Makovach

Liz said:


> Do you play with him - just him sometimes? The other would be a nice massage. Just sit on the floor and have him lie beside you and just give him a nice massage in large firm circles - start at his neck and go all the way down his body. It will reinforce the calmness you want, it will bond you both and is a pleasant interaction with no real demands which is something you and he might need right now. He is at a difficult stage where he is not really a puppy but not an adult either - you have a teenager. He will challenge you. Make sure playtime and affection are built in with structure and exercise, exercise and more exercise. Is he neutered?


He gets plenty of one on one time from either my boyfriend or myself every day. We play with him. He like to fetch in the pond and he like to catch balls from across the room. 
I will try the massage. 
He was neutered at 4 months.


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## SaharaNight Boxers

Well he may be going through that "teenager stage" Duke acted pretty badly when he was just over a year for a little while. Mainly training things, he never peed in the house. It might just take him a lfew months to grow out of it.


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## Liz

Well he has had a lot of changes and he is at a challenging age. Try not to get frustrated as he will know he has won. Try to end on a positive note and just trudge on. Sometimes behavior gets worse as they challenge you and then take a turn for the better when they finally decide to cooperate.  I am sorry -you are working hard and it can be frustrating. You can get through this too and come out the better a team for it.


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## twoisplenty

Welcome to the dreaded teenage stage, lol. 

He is acting out because you have introduced another dog into the pack. Just take a deep breath, this too shall pass. No point in showing him how upset you are, you are only going to stress him out even more which will only make this stage worse than what it needs to be. I get that you are trying to establish yourself but I dont think thats the issue here. He doesnt have an issue with you but with Nahla, so I dont see tethering him to you benefiting the situation, I only see it stressing him out even more because now he is in trouble.


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## DaneMama

He needs a refresher on potty training 101. 

When you take him out, watch him the whole time. When he goes, reinforce him heavily by giving him a "jackpot" of tiny treats...like 30 of them all in rapid fire. You want reinforcement lasting 30 seconds. Go back inside and repeat if necessary since he goes after coming right back in. 

If he doesn't go right away (you want his first order of business when let outside being potty, you don't want him to learn to take his sweet time out there), bring him inside and keep him tethered to you. Make sure you're as boring as possible while waiting to go back out. Only give him a small amount of leash. After waiting a few minutes take him back out. Repeat as long as he doesn't go.


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## FurMom1089

Honestly, if this were my dog, I would be just as frustrated, it sounds to me like he is putting you in your place. It may not mean that he "IS" dominant, but he is deff acting that way, dogs only do this when their is an open slot, the snapping behavior is saying "you dont touch me, I say what goes" 

When I first take on a dog for training, they get a 3 hr workout. absolutely no play or treats, I teach in this 3hrs that its so much easier to just do what I tell them, and they get to rest. I prefer to take them in the evening, as after their "walk" which actually happens in the yard, no travel or exploring or sniffing, they get 10 minuets to lower their head and do their potty, then right to the crate for the night, I do not feed them that night. The next morning its right out to test what they learned the night before, usually it is immediately obvious what they retained and what they didnt, they get to go potty, then its right back to work for however long it takes to get them doing what you ask, they they get to go on their first walk, how long the walk is depends on the dogs current state of fitness, during this walk and others to follow you reinforce the leader position, you allow them freedom periodically and only on your terms, allow them to relax and be comfortable, walks are meant to be fun learning! Practice the potty command, and the ok command so they know when it is ok to sniff, give a command of your choice to "come back" to the alert heel.. you are putting the building blocks of your recall and send off.

seriously, if he growls and snaps at you when you go to grab him, growl really loud at him and say no firm but not shouting and poke him in the neck to "bite" back, i dont recommend "throwing" down dogs, but. instead you want them to naturally put themselves down, dog language says "ok ok, im not a threat please let off" follow through though and make him put his head down and relax, after a few moments of giving up, say ok, calmly pet then walk away...

once the foundation is there, the rest is easier to build on, you don't want to "rule" your dog, but get a healthy respect, every luxury is to be earned


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## magicre

i always thought leashing a dog to me was a great tool...and you're using it.

breathe.....this is a teenager...he's not doing this on purpose just to piss you off...he's just doing it because he's a dog....this is a nothing personal, dear kind of thing...

he needs to go outside every hour to pee. 
he needs to be leashed to you.

and no, it does no good to yell...because he's doing this for a reason.

have you tried belly bands? they were a g'dsend for us when bubba went backwards....we didn't get him until he was two and wasn't housetrained.


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## Makovach

magicre said:


> i always thought leashing a dog to me was a great tool...and you're using it.
> 
> breathe.....this is a teenager...he's not doing this on purpose just to piss you off...he's just doing it because he's a dog....this is a nothing personal, dear kind of thing...
> 
> he needs to go outside every hour to pee.
> he needs to be leashed to you.
> 
> and no, it does no good to yell...because he's doing this for a reason.
> 
> have you tried belly bands? they were a g'dsend for us when bubba went backwards....we didn't get him until he was two and wasn't housetrained.


Thank you for reminding me! I do have a belly band.

I am going to stick with potty training 101. 
I am going to keep him tethered to me or in the kennel. 
We are going to keep having training time and play times. 
He really liked the 30 minute massage.
He WILL change, or his life will be boring as hell.


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## kady05

When you say "snap", do you mean kind of a bratty "I'm going to mouth you" snap, or is it a "Get the hell away from me" snap? Because that in itself would probably be the end of my rope.. I don't deal with dogs that bite humans.


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## Makovach

kady05 said:


> When you say "snap", do you mean kind of a bratty "I'm going to mouth you" snap, or is it a "Get the hell away from me" snap? Because that in itself would probably be the end of my rope.. I don't deal with dogs that bite humans.


Its a snap as in "I'm going to act like I'm going to bite you, and if you back down, I will". 
He has bit me before. It wasn't pretty. He got himself flipped and pinned to the floor. He's done it when he wants to lean on you and you push him away from you after telling him "off" and he doesn't get off. He does it when he gets his nails clipped even thought I make it a fun and treat filled experience. He does it when you try to force him to do something he thinks he doesn't need to do. He does it when you try to put him in the cage, get him off the couch or move him from the front seat in the car to the back. He is a total A hole. He has bit me once and after that go around, he will snap, but if I don't back down and show him its not going to happen, he stops. But if someone does something and he snaps and they back up or flinch, he goes for more. 

He is very pissed being on this leash tethered to me. The first hour or so he was great. Sat and downed every time. Stayed, came when I called him. But in the last 30 minutes or so he is being stuck up. Staring me down. He is resisting to do what he is told. He snap as me when I go for the leash or touch his but to make him sit. This isn't going to happen.


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## magicre

Makovach said:


> Thank you for reminding me! I do have a belly band.
> 
> I am going to stick with potty training 101.
> I am going to keep him tethered to me or in the kennel.
> We are going to keep having training time and play times.
> He really liked the 30 minute massage.
> He WILL change, or his life will be boring as hell.


i know it's frustrating.....we would use big pads in the belly band. that way, when bubba peed, he peed onto the pad and saved a lot of cleaning ...maybe get a few of them.

it shouldn't take long.....between leashing him to you and taking him out often, he'll learn it's preferable to be free and trained than to be a brat and not be free.

breathe a little melissa....that which does not kill us makes us stronger  and a sense of humour goes a long way with teenagers.


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## StdPooDad

Please, for his sake and YOURS!, don't do this again. All it does is piss the dog off, make him scared and stressed. 
Using physical force on an animal..well, I won't go there. I just get too worked up.
Joe



Makovach said:


> He got himself flipped and pinned to the floor.


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## Makovach

StdPooDad said:


> Please, for his sake and YOURS!, don't do this again. All it does is piss the dog off, make him scared and stressed.
> Using physical force on an animal..well, I won't go there. I just get too worked up.
> Joe


I did it for sake of restraint. I'm not going to let him just come at me. If you have advice on a better way to keep him from biting me or someone else when he gets in his moods, I would like to hear it. I am open for opinions, that is the whole reason I started this thread, because obviously what I'm doing isn't working.


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## xchairity_casex

just relax and remember your not doing anything to cause this,hes being a sh*t head becuase hes young,and acting stupid is all.
i think every dog goes thru this to some degree,some more then others,some later,some sooner. you just got a pretty confedent boy who sounds like he may need a good run till he cant run anymore LOL

how much high energy excersize does he get? as in running,jogging,jumping,chaseing,playing so hard he HAS to lie down right there in the grass and pant for 10 minutes?
sounds to me like this may be waht he needs to be a bit more manageable.

when Cesar would have his bad days where he was being as stubborn as a mule i would up his excersice from a walk to a full out run! i would toss his little butt on the treadmill and turn the speed up to a brisk jog(once he was used to the treadmill) have him run for about 20 minutes till he showed obviouse signs of tierdness then slow it down to a slow walk while giveing him some water let him walk for 35-45 minutes then have him run again for another 20,slow it down to a walk for 30 minutes then run again.

if you dont have access to a treadmill here are some other high energy activities you can do every day

get a flirt pole- take an old broom handle and an old lead attatch the lead to the end of the broom handle,add a favorite toy and make that boy run and jump!

got a bycycle? attatch him to it and go!

got a 4 wheeler? motor scooter? golf cart? electric wheel chair? take him and make him jog or run beside you for a good 45 minutes every day along wtih his normal routine

know someone who owns a truck? get a long line,sit on the tailgate have a freind drive teh truck slowly and make him walk behind then gradually work up to a run/jog

know a lake or pond nearby? stand on till his feet down touch,put a lead on him and make him swim circles around you

got a doggy back pack? pack that sucker with weight and then have him walk/run!

does he like to chase? throw balls continuessley or buy a tennis racket or a chuck it to toss the balls farther.

an exhuasted dog rarely puts up a fight!

i would consider my pup Cesar to be a lower energy dog and he NEEDS at least 2 hours of excersice EVERYDAY to be relaxed and calm miss a day or even so much as miss an hour and you can tell becuase he will pace around like he is bored and doesnt seem to want to relax. he gets 2 hours every morning on the treadmill, then we walk 30 minutes to the track and spend an hour off lead with the flirt pole and him jsut running around then 30 minute walk home plus we do spring pole every night in the basement/my room for about 40 minutes. come the hotter weather he is also going to be going swimming for about an hour every day,plus im working on making him a weighted vest to wear while on the treadmill or swimming.

if you notice the excersice we do is not as hard on me as him i only walk 2 hours while he gets 4 hours or more simpley becuase im too outta shape to get his speed! im trying to loose weight yes and do what i can but after the flirt pole im huffin and puffin so bad im sure people think im gonna have a heart attack right then and there!

also if i were you if you dont have a treadmill i would deff think about picking one up it can also help to potty train him better becuase instead of putting him into the crate to wait for him to go pee you can put him on the treadmill so he is not just building energy but draining energy at the same time plus excersice helps him have to go.
i got mine for 20 bucks second hand try looking at craigslist,second hand shops,yard sales,newspaper ads.
im sure being locked in his crate is causeing him to be a bit frustrated causeing him to be a brat,but you have tokeep him in teh crate so he doesnt pee its kind of building onto itself like a viscious cycle hence i think the treadmill would help break that. instead of takeing him out,brining him into the crate itll be taking him out brining him onto the treadmill,taking him out putting him onto the treadmill till he goes potty an i can tell you what he is NOT gonna wanna pee on the treadmill would be too difficult for him to do!

i really do think more higher level activitys would be good for him.

and im not trying to say he isnt getting adaquate excersice but jsut some dogs need more then others some dogs need alot more then youd expect,like my sisters toy poodle she was tiny toy poodle she NEEDED A MINIMUM OF 6 HOURS PER DAY jsut too keep her managable she was a high energy dog im sure MANY toy poodle owners would say to that 
"HOLY SH*T ARE YOU KIDDING!???" and i would say "nope not in the least, without all that activity she was bouncing off the walls,destroying things,crapping all over the floors,chaseing the cats,getting onto the table constantly, just a nightmare! i found out now she is actually starting agility training and her new owners(my sisters bfs sister) are hikers they go hikeing all the time and take her along plus they have a fenced in back yard where she is let out to play with there kids.


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## StdPooDad

xchairity... had some really good advice! If I don't get Seamus and Teaghan exercised ever day, I know it come nighttime. 

I just don't have the time to do a good job of it so I try to mix it up. 

I walk the kids a *lot* at Home Depot. I've found that it works their brains so much that 20-30 minutes walking in HD, changing directions, etc is pretty much the equivalent of 2 hours walking around town. 

Joe



Makovach said:


> I did it for sake of restraint. I'm not going to let him just come at me. If you have advice on a better way to keep him from biting me or someone else when he gets in his moods, I would like to hear it. I am open for opinions, that is the whole reason I started this thread, because obviously what I'm doing isn't working.


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## Makovach

xchairity_casex said:


> how much high energy excersize does he get?* At least an hour a day of hard exercise. We go to the park. They run in the ball diamond till they can't move. He loves to swim in the lake, we play fetch and throw the ball/stick out far in the lake and he goes get is and come back and we repeat until he comes out and lies right down in the shallow water or on land panting. *
> 
> if you dont have access to a treadmill here are some other high energy activities you can do every day
> *I live in a tiny apartment that is packed to the gills. I wouldn't be able to fit a treadmill in here even if I hung it from the ceiling *


I do not have a bike or any of those other things. We have been stepping up on walks and runs at the park daily more since bringing home Nalah because we live in a small studio type apartment with no yard and no room indoors. We have started getting up every morning and taking them to the park. And some evenings after I get off work, we go again or go for a walk, or train for a few hours.


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## xchairity_casex

Makovach said:


> I do not have a bike or any of those other things. We have been stepping up on walks and runs at the park daily more since bringing home Nalah because we live in a small studio type apartment with no yard and no room indoors. We have started getting up every morning and taking them to the park. And some evenings after I get off work, we go again or go for a walk, or train for a few hours.


damn that sucks about not being able to fit a treadmill in! they do make small ones for dogs but those are like 300 friggin bucks!


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## kady05

Makovach said:


> Its a snap as in "I'm going to act like I'm going to bite you, and if you back down, I will".
> He has bit me before. It wasn't pretty. He got himself flipped and pinned to the floor. He's done it when he wants to lean on you and you push him away from you after telling him "off" and he doesn't get off. He does it when he gets his nails clipped even thought I make it a fun and treat filled experience. He does it when you try to force him to do something he thinks he doesn't need to do. He does it when you try to put him in the cage, get him off the couch or move him from the front seat in the car to the back. He is a total A hole. He has bit me once and after that go around, he will snap, but if I don't back down and show him its not going to happen, he stops. *But if someone does something and he snaps and they back up or flinch, he goes for more.
> *
> He is very pissed being on this leash tethered to me. The first hour or so he was great. Sat and downed every time. Stayed, came when I called him. But in the last 30 minutes or so he is being stuck up. Staring me down. He is resisting to do what he is told. *He snap as me when I go for the leash or touch his but to make him sit.* This isn't going to happen.


Wow, yeah, I wouldn't have a dog like that in my house. He sounds like a total liability.. unless you never have guests over I guess. Of course, I'm even less tolerant of ANY type of aggression toward humans because I have Pit Bulls and that's something 95% of Pit Bull owners will not tolerate. 

Sounds like he needs a major "boot camp", at the very least. Has he had a full vet checkup to check his hormone levels and such (sorry if you answered this already)? Or has he always had this personality?


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## SaharaNight Boxers

Even if you flipped him for restraint I would never do that again. Boxers are made to protect and part of that is fighting whatever they view as a threat. Anything along those lines I wouldn't do with a working breed ever. I would never do it with any dog but especially not a dog like a Boxer. Plus, it gives him a reason to act out. AKA almost anything that Caeaser Millen with forcing a dog, don't do it. Those dgs always look so broken after too. 

If he doesn't like being tethered though why don't you try to crate him? It could he that it's just very stressful for him to be practically stuck on you. I know it might bother me. And if he poops in his crate I would think there was almost definitely something wrong as most dogs won't poop in their "den". And I would definitely excersize him more. If you could have someone come and walk him or drop him off at a daycare every so often something that makes him work he might be better. And anything that makes him work mentally is great too. Duke loves to use his brain and it always tires him out. Just brave through this stage will be over soon.


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## Makovach

kady05 said:


> Wow, yeah, I wouldn't have a dog like that in my house. He sounds like a total liability.. unless you never have guests over I guess. Of course, I'm even less tolerant of ANY type of aggression toward humans because I have Pit Bulls and that's something 95% of Pit Bull owners will not tolerate.
> 
> Sounds like he needs a major "boot camp", at the very least. Has he had a full vet checkup to check his hormone levels and such (sorry if you answered this already)? Or has he always had this personality?


He has has a full vet check mid April.

Before he was pushy, not its gotten worse, and I think its because we brought Nalah home. Sorry to tell him, but she is staying. I don't think he likes that she wont put up with the BS he pills trying to sit on her, steal toys from her or take her food. He isn't aggressive as in he want to bite. 99% of the time he wants to play and be friends and cuddle. Its just when you want him to do something and he refuses that he gets snappy. Getting rid of him or PTS is not an option in my book. This is just something we have to work through. Yesterday I was super pissed. Today is a new day and we are going for a run after work and going to train with the clicker and try to start from scratch.


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## BearMurphy

Of course you're not going to get rid of Tucker or have him PTS. I can see that you are very dedicated to your dogs and want the best for them. From what I've read, it seems like Tucker is going beyond teenage antics if he's displaying aggressive behavior. Maybe I don't know enough about boxers but I feel like this deserves more than upping NILF, exercise, and obedience training. You need to figure out why he's aggressive towards you because it's not always dominant behavior, it could be defensive. Is he reacting to you being harsh with him? Does his urination behavior ever appear in a submissive context? I don't know your past training history with Tucker, but being too rough with a dog that can't handle it can make them bite. You also have to consider genetics. I think you know his parents, how do they behave? Is he exhibiting similar behavior? You can attempt to describe specific scenarios to us but there are subtleties in his behavior that you might not be able to catch when you are in the moment so it would be helpful to have a trainer work with you. Please consider this so his aggression does not get worse and I'm sorry if I am misunderstanding Tucker's behavior, but I am only going by the tone of your posts and description of his behaviors since I can't see it for myself.


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## magicre

from all that i'm reading, melissa, i think he's not only being a teen.....and, trust me, i know nothing about training a dog.....what i hear more is the sheer frustration in your voice...

i have to wonder if that's not traveling down the leash to tucker....

maybe both of you need a good run.

i don't know much about big dogs, but i know that even my pug needs at least an hour and a half per day doing something active.....

my corgi, when she was young.....had seven acres and she ran from dawn through dusk...happy dog..

tired dog is a happy dog, especially at that age...and, yeah, bringing nallah in has to do something to the balance..

maybe it's not so much of a too bad, so sad, but finding a way to bring them together or at least, live together in peace...

so, one on one side for long walks or runs and one on the other side...until they accept each other.

i'm seeing that charity gave some great advice.....and i have to say, that, if you cannot stop the aggression coming from you and then having it returned from the dog.....it's going to be even more uphill than it is now.

i think at this point, you have an opportunity to reverse what he's doing....recognising that this is no one's fault is the first step...above all, he's a dog who is acting like a dog...


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## Liz

Again, teenager. He will frustrate you, push you, try you and see what he can get away with. He is trying to find his place within this new structure with Nalah and the new home. Lots of new stuff and even a newish trainer and lifestyle at home. I know you are doing everything you can but don't overload him. Tethering can be a good bonding experience if you remember to praise all the good, keep training short and sweet like if he was a tiny pup and end on a good note with praise and affection. You have to find your happy place and stay there. Girl I have two teenage kids and three teenage dogs - I have to live in my happy place or someone will be sacrificed. Someone is always pushing boundaries here and it is exhausting. I would go to your trainer and talk about the snapping. Honestly that is what I would be focused on right now. Some dogs think it is okay to try to intimidate through biting and need to learn quick and young it is not. I think the trainer you were working with can help you with it but I would make this my prime objective for a while. He will settle a bit as he accepts Nalah and the new enviornment - let him have some time for that. Having time with yo is great and keep exercising him as much as possible. Please talk to your trainer about the snapping and focus on that as he is too big a dog to get away with it. Find your happy place - remember you must be calm, confident and in control because he isn't but would love to be. The more you are this way them more he will learn to lean on you. Being the leader is not to push him around but to show him the best way - the most beneficial way. You are getting there. They always tend to push the worst before they start getting better.


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## bridget246

StdPooDad said:


> Please, for his sake and YOURS!, don't do this again. All it does is piss the dog off, make him scared and stressed.
> Using physical force on an animal..well, I won't go there. I just get too worked up.
> Joe


All it ever did for me was protect me from the dog and the dog from me. Maybe Ceaser gave it a bad rep. But if done right I haven't seen a dog broken from it. If a dog is truly attacking you then you need to do something to get them off. It doesn't matter at that point what led to the attack. For the time being you have to do something to keep from getting hurt and then rework your approach to decrease the chance from it happening again. If I remember right people were saying that Ceaser would do the same exact thing again and reward to little. Lets not judge everyone based off this one man. 

In my experience a minute later the dog is up again and happy as they should be rewarded the second they calm down. Again, I'm not sure if Ceaser does it right as I haven't even seen him use it in the few episodes that I've watched. Never seen any feelings hurt or anything different in the dogs behavior. If those things are happening then maybe the person isn't doing it right or is doing it for the wrong reason. And no, I'm not reading the happy dog wrong. The first time I've ever done a roll I did it wrong and the dog was sacred and more stressed. A good trainer showed me how to fix that so I can use it to calm a dog down instead of stressing them out more. 

I wouldn't use a flip for a snap though I would take a snap seriously and will find out why my dog is snapping at me.


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## xchairity_casex

@ SaharaNight Boxers 

this boy needs MORE energy drained, keeping him locked up in a crate is only going to make things worse. i would not suggest keeping him locked in a crate more then absolutly need be.

ok no treadmill,but do you KNOW anyone who has a motor scooter,4 wheeler,golf cart,truck to take him running?

somthing i was going to do with Cesar since a good doggy back pack is soo exspensive i was saving for one is to use my hand weights with velcro straps and attatch them to Cesars harness each weight is 3 pounds but you can get half pounds,one pounds ect this will help him to drain some energy as well.

i agree it sounds like your really getting frustrated and it sounds like he is frustrated as well. you need to learn how to greak that cycle.
i also would not advise you to pin him or flip him as he is already showing signs of biteing you, it could cause an attack.

Seriously send that boy my way ill have his ass straightend in NO time.

Gosh i used to get soo frustrated at Cesar some days i still do and when he is frustrating me i stop and remind myself "i jsut need to be relaxed and happy and joyful and remember he is young and stubborn and it takes time to learn" then i would take him to go do some excersiceing.

you sound like you need a new mind set, you need to feel like you are the most powerful person in the world,you need to feel like you know exactly what your doing,you need to feel confedence in youself and your abilities 
YOU CAN get this dog under control
YOU CAN do it without force or being mean
YOU CAN out smart this dog
YOU CAN make him understand that YOU mean what you say.

YOU ARE strong
YOU ARE capable
YOU ARE smart

if need be purchuse a muzzle to show him your not afraid of being bitten that it wont work. if you cannot afford a muzle use a scarf to tie gently around his mouth and behind his head.

do you think you could take some video of him snapping at you? i would really love to see first hand and see if i can also see your reactions and see if i cant create a plan for you

hum too many see's lol sorry


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## Makovach

BearMurphy said:


> Of course you're not going to get rid of Tucker or have him PTS. I can see that you are very dedicated to your dogs and want the best for them. From what I've read, it seems like Tucker is going beyond teenage antics if he's displaying aggressive behavior. Maybe I don't know enough about boxers but I feel like this deserves more than upping NILF, exercise, and obedience training. You need to figure out why he's aggressive towards you because it's not always dominant behavior, it could be defensive. Is he reacting to you being harsh with him? Does his urination behavior ever appear in a submissive context? I don't know your past training history with Tucker, but being too rough with a dog that can't handle it can make them bite. You also have to consider genetics. I think you know his parents, how do they behave? Is he exhibiting similar behavior? You can attempt to describe specific scenarios to us but there are subtleties in his behavior that you might not be able to catch when you are in the moment so it would be helpful to have a trainer work with you. Please consider this so his aggression does not get worse and I'm sorry if I am misunderstanding Tucker's behavior, but I am only going by the tone of your posts and description of his behaviors since I can't see it for myself.


His NILIF is very strict. He has to do something to get anything. No furniture or on beds, he doesn't get food, toys, praise, go out/inside, go down/up the steps, go in out a doorway unless he does what I want. Being on the leash is being even more strict with NILIF beacuse he doesn't even get a chance to think he will get to do something. 
He is not reacting in fear. I've been around fearful dogs. He doesn't urinate because of fear, he does it just because or it may be a marking habit?. He is not treated rough and a good 80% of his training has been positive/reward based. I'm not one that believes in 100% positive reinforcement. I do believe there is a time and place for punishment. And I'm not talking about hitting. 

My sister owns his mother, His father is Annie's son. His mother is very aggressive. She is very dominant as well. 

This behavior starts when he wants something and doesn't want to listen. If he wants to lean in your lap, and you want him to lie down, bam! If he is intent on something watching it closely, and you want him to pay attention to you or make him do something else, Bam. 

We are working with a trainer, but he doesn't come to our house. He is more about obedience. He thinks everything comes from obedience and that is how I will correct this. He told me to start the leash tethering.


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## Makovach

magicre said:


> and, yeah, bringing nallah in has to do something to the balance..
> 
> maybe it's not so much of a too bad, so sad, but finding a way to bring them together or at least, live together in peace...
> 
> so, one on one side for long walks or runs and one on the other side...until they accept each other


That is the thing I don't get. They LOVE each other. They sleep together, play together, run together, swim together. The only problems arise when he thinks he can sit on top of her and she will give him a warning growl and get up and move. When she is eating and he tries to take her food, she will give him a warning growl, and then a snap (not biting him) if he is presistant and he gets the point and leaves. 

I've walked them side by side for the last couple days. They do great, they stay back and beside me, they don't pull they don't fight. They don't have any issue during play time or running or swimming. Only when he tries to take her food or high value treats/toys. Which I am okay with her reacting in this manner, because it is nonsense. He needs to leave her alone. She doesn't go after him for no reason. 

I think maybe he may be mad because he is getting kicked another notch down the rank line, but to me, that makes no sense as to why he would act out with people?


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## magicre

i think the advice you're getting from above is going to help you more than i ever would be able.

but i hear stress and i think you're humanising him. he's a dog. he's a teenage dog. 

he needs structure and he needs praise and he needs boundaries. maybe more than other dogs....but teenagers all need to be velcro'd to the wall until they get past it or until you get a glass of wine....

he's taking many of his cues from you.

bubba did everything tucker is doing.....the only difference and i thank the universe daily, is that bubba weighed 20 lbs....and even when he bit, it was a joke.

i get that it's exhausting...it is. i had seattle pug rescue on speed dial.....

liz is right about the happy place...that woo sigh place you have to get to when you're ready to turn them into barbecue.


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## xchairity_casex

i agree,try not to over anylyze, it sounds like your NILF is as strict as strict can be,you are doing the work its jsut going to take time. he sound like hes domineering is all.
dogs of any breed in any litter can be domineering,thats your boy hes stubborn and domineering and hes going to push as hard as he can to see just how far he can get away with things, thats all there is too it its going to take time. like i tell people with puppies when you think the puppy should get somthing in a week add a month and a day and thats how long it will take, if you think he should be getting this in 2 months add 6 more then youve got it about right.

it takes a long long time to see progress and it usually happens so gradually you dont notice its happening untill one day you think to yourself "omg,he isnt doing that any more!"

just give it time and being consitant. like i said if hes biteing invest in a cheap basket muzzle so you dont have to worry about being bitten.


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## bridget246

All this talk about how bad teenagers are is worrying me. Julia is 0 now but I heard time passes fast. 

Bridget is also going through her teens. At least that is what I think it is. I'm just trying to smile and enjoy it though she isn't snapping at me. She just isn't acting the same. I think my little puppy is growing up. 

I have a few plans for her. Going to get her a pack to walk with. We will start out light and slowly increase it. I'm also going to find way to get her to pull me. We had plans on starting that this summer so I'm going to make sure to follow through with it. I know Bridget will love it and she probably needs it.


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## monkeys23

bridget246 said:


> All this talk about how bad teenagers are is worrying me. Julia is 0 now but I heard time passes fast.
> 
> Bridget is also going through her teens. At least that is what I think it is. I'm just trying to smile and enjoy it though she isn't snapping at me. She just isn't acting the same. I think my little puppy is growing up.
> 
> I have a few plans for her. Going to get her a pack to walk with. We will start out light and slowly increase it. I'm also going to find way to get her to pull me. We had plans on starting that this summer so I'm going to make sure to follow through with it. I know Bridget will love it and she probably needs it.


Actually if you got into a training venue to work her brain that would be much better and ten times more satisfying for her. GSD's are thinkers that need jobs... not sled dogs that just want to run...


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## magicre

bridget246 said:


> All this talk about how bad teenagers are is worrying me. Julia is 0 now but I heard time passes fast.
> 
> Bridget is also going through her teens. At least that is what I think it is. I'm just trying to smile and enjoy it though she isn't snapping at me. She just isn't acting the same. I think my little puppy is growing up.
> 
> I have a few plans for her. Going to get her a pack to walk with. We will start out light and slowly increase it. I'm also going to find way to get her to pull me. We had plans on starting that this summer so I'm going to make sure to follow through with it. I know Bridget will love it and she probably needs it.


do the same with julia, too. 

start nilif young and dogs and children will respond.


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## bridget246

monkeys23 said:


> Actually if you got into a training venue to work her brain that would be much better and ten times more satisfying for her. GSD's are thinkers that need jobs... not sled dogs that just want to run...


I didn't have any plans on stopping.


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## bridget246

magicre said:


> do the same with julia, too.
> 
> start nilif young and dogs and children will respond.


I wish my parents did this more with me. The rewards are so much greater when they are earned. The greater the effort the more enjoyable the reward. 

Never called it nilif but I used it with the kids I was babysitting and I also used it for teaching. All kids that were under me started out with 100% respect and a prefect grade the first day. The challenge for them was maintaining it. Instead of adding things I would take things away. It worked great for middle and high school but didn't play out so well with elementary. The younger kids needed a lot more direction. Kind of reminded me of a puppy where they need to know you want from them. 

Though this is getting us way off subject. 

Charity is giving some great advice. Her experience shows. For Bridget I think the pulling me around would help her work her nose a little more and I want to lay a track for her with scents to folow. She doesn't like me being far away from her and I can't keep up so that might help us both. I'm also looking into getting her some real herding experience. Agility is nice and we are working on that too. But she seems like she really wants to herd so I want to give her that chance. I'm just worried about her getting hurt in the process. 

This goes for anyone. I don't think we can expect overnight changes in ourselves or in our dogs. I'd be happy to see continue success even if we do slide backwards some days. I don't know much about boxers even though I have one now. I do know that their nose doesn't appear to be as good. Bridget loves it when I hide things for her to find around the house. I should do it more often.


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## xellil

I have a cart for Rebel - I really wanted to have him pull Snorkels on our walks since she can't go as as far and I thought he would enjoy it. He could also carry water.

It never did fit right - the shafts are too short and poke him in the sides. So I need to either get new shafts or have someone lengthen the ones i have.


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## xchairity_casex

bridget246 said:


> .
> 
> 
> 
> Charity is giving some great advice. Her experience shows.



*blush*
:redface:


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## Makovach

Thank you everyone! 

I have started from the beginning with clicker training today. We have relearned sit, down, stay and wait. We are also doing well with our recall. Its not 100% but, its a work in progress. We are continueing exercise, limitations, restrictions and lovins and play time.


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## BoxerParty

Ah, the adolescent Boxer. So much fun.  Malcolm is about a month younger than Tucker, and has moments of all-out temper tantrums, but is, thank goodness, not really aggressive. 

I think the advice you've gotten so far is great. I would only add that we humans are very good at discouraging behaviour we don't want, but often forget to reward the behaviour we DO want. In addition to the things you've mentioned, try to "catch" Tucker behaving in ways that you like, and click and treat for them. Any time he is calm, polite, and agreeable, reward him! 

Good luck!


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## monkeys23

bridget246 said:


> I want to lay a track for her with scents to folow. She doesn't like me being far away from her and I can't keep up so that might help us both. I'm also looking into getting her some real herding experience. Agility is nice and we are working on that too. But she seems like she really wants to herd so I want to give her that chance. I'm just worried about her getting hurt in the process.
> 
> This goes for anyone. I don't think we can expect overnight changes in ourselves or in our dogs. I'd be happy to see continue success even if we do slide backwards some days. I don't know much about boxers even though I have one now. I do know that their nose doesn't appear to be as good. Bridget loves it when I hide things for her to find around the house. I should do it more often.


Oh man letting them sniff while pulling you... thats a great recipe for getting pulled right into a squirrel tree lol.
There are a lot of good sport tracking books out there, but I would suggest finding a good IPO club because it can sure help a lot with doing things right... books can only get you so far. Just be forthright about what techniques you do with your dogs and what you aren't willing to do. I would watch a few sessions first too. Voraus/Send outs and working up to harder tracks will get her comfortable working away from you. Working away from their person is a good thing tos tart early with these guys since they are such velcro dogs with their person. Also I wouldn't discount Carlos on the tracking and stuff yet.... I've seen a goodly number of Boxer's doing sport and having a blast. I imagine they'd be pretty fun to work since they throw themselves so totally into everything they do.
These two books have really good reviews from both AKC tracking users and IPO people:
Welcome to Dogwise.com
Welcome to Dogwise.com
If you just started groundwork doing some scent pads and short tracks early each morning about 4-5 days a week, that would be a really good start. Like just feed her her breakfast or part of it on a scent pad/track. Or get some low cal small dehydrated treats like Bravo turkey training treats... those would work nicely being small enough that she's (and carlos!) really got to get her nose deep in the track.
I love this website, I was so stumped on how to introduce article identification before this lol. This is what happens when you learn to track on your own! I kinda think the section of the clicker retrieve is magical as well. 
Schutzhund / IPO Training - Learn about this amazing dog sport!

I love this book, its got a lot of really useful stuff in it, just pass over the "proofing" parts because frankly if you do your groundwork right you should never need it.  I just really liked how it works in both toy and food rewards which is something Susan Garrett (I found her book Shaping Success very useful btw) and other agility trainers have a lot of useful articles and etc. on. I believe Shiela Booth wrote another obedience book without the "proofing" bits... I think its called Purely Positive or something. Welcome to Dogwise.com

As far as herding... I'd be more worried about possibly having to pay for a dead sheep. You have a big dog, its not going to get hurt by the sheep. As long as she's got a solid down off leash and away from you she'll be fine. She might be over the top in prey drive and eat a sheep though lol. Happens a lot with shepherds, especially when they are taught by people who are used to BCs! GSD's and BC's have very different styles of herding drive! GSD's were tenders of the flock and with their sheep all day, while BC's were basically sent to fetch the sheep and used to sort the sheep... hence their intensity and the famous BC eye. I saw a little twenty some pound BC 9 month old girlies first session and omg what a rodeo, it was hilarious to watch and fun to see her natural drive. I knew Lily (Sibe/GSD mix) had drive when she circled up the dry ewes when we were doing some stuff out by the sheep barn, lol awkward! I love going to watch cow dog trials, but it takes a real solid very forward dog to do that... they can't be soft or the cows will just do whatever they want. They aren't dumb like sheep lol.

Above all, just remember to have fun even when working through issues!


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