# Bad experience with RMB has me ready to give up on homemade diet



## nicoley2132 (May 26, 2017)

ive had a very bad experience with my dog having a bone obstruction due to the RMB which was beef rib bones,which caused her 3 days in the vet trying to get her to pass it, she has an injury to the shape of her pelvis so she cant ever have bones again since shes unable to pass them. Im about ready to give up on this homemade dog food idea. im finding it so hard to truly create a balanced recipe and im afraid im doing more harm then good. Theres so many recipes out there and so much info i really dont know what or who to believe anymore.My vet is ok with a homemade even raw diet she just insists that its balanced with vegis,calcium,carbs,fats,oil and a multivitamin sup. Which is so contrary to the prey diet people,she insists that shes seen to many dogs come in with multiple fractures to there bones when there on the pre model diet, that they just dont get enough calcium and in my case i cant feed bones ever again. I really need some help here figuring out what is best. I broke down today and bought a bag of loyall grain free dog food in case im ready to give up completely i have it. please help!!


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

No beef bones should ever be given. Pork ribs are fine, but not beef bones. At all. They are way too dense for most to chew. Feed edible digestible bones, like chicken, turkey, pork ribs etc...Dogs have no need for veggies. They convert to sugar, carbs, starch... none are good, and dogs have no biological need for it. 

They get fat in their diet. Most from fattier cuts of red meats like beef, pork, duck.. If vets knew anything about nutrition, they would know that.

Up to now, what have you fed?


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## nicoley2132 (May 26, 2017)

beef burger,deer burger,deer steak with bones,beef liver,eggs,coco oil,bone broth,fish oil, kefir,and ground egg shell is what i have been feeding. According to a lot that ive read and told the vet both agree its not balanced.


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

nicoley2132 said:


> beef burger,deer burger,deer steak with bones,beef liver,eggs,coco oil,bone broth,fish oil, kefir,and ground egg shell is what i have been feeding. According to a lot that ive read and told the vet both agree its not balanced.


That's not balanced.Balance comes from feeding a variety of different foods, over time. Lose the egg shell and kefir, and start giving some edible bone for the calcium, to start. Go with chicken quarters, then add in some pork, ribs are fine from pork. As far as beef goes, feed whole chunks like cheek, or brisket. Boneless and there is a fat source as well. You can also add turkey. Turkey necks are a good bone source, as well. 

Once all all is well with different proteins, start adding some liver and kidney if you can find it. Organs are an absolute must. 

All the different proteins you can feed, the better. No veggies or fruits. Dogs have no biological need for them, they convert to sugar and carbs, AND there is nothing in them that isn't already in raw meat/bones/organs, in a form the dogs body can actually use.


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## OtherGuy (Nov 30, 2016)

To be safe, just stick with bone-in chicken as you source of bone. It would virtually eliminate obstruction risks (which are real concern).

Fruits and vegetables are unnecessary and undermine the benefits of getting raw fed dogs off carbohydrates.

Bill


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## InkedMarie (Sep 9, 2011)

If finances allow, you can buy grinds (meat/bone/organ) from Hare Today, Raw Feeding Miami, Reeel Raw, etc. All balanced.


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## OldGnarlHead (Feb 17, 2016)

I agree 100% with Jenny, no beef bone, ever. They are WAY too dense to be digested well. Also, forget the idea of a 'recipe'. There is no one set ingredients list you can throw together and it will be good for the end of time. You have to vary proteins and cuts and parts and bits and that variety makes it balanced. You need to feed at least four proteins and as many parts of those proteins as possible to make it balanced.


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## OtherGuy (Nov 30, 2016)

Pork bones are pretty dense too, I would not feed pork bones to a dog that had an obstruction or one with GI issues.

I'm very risk averse in this issue and stick to soft-edible bones (like chicken) myself.

Bill


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

My 14 week old aussie is able to chew through pork ribs now...


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## OldGnarlHead (Feb 17, 2016)

Not to mention that only feeding bone from one animal is also not balanced. I personally think it's fine to feed ground bone if there is no other way to feed it.


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## OtherGuy (Nov 30, 2016)

naturalfeddogs said:


> My 14 week old aussie is able to chew through pork ribs now...


The question isn't about being capable of chewing through the bone, it is how large the pieces are after they've been chewed through. 

A piece of rib bone can easily be big enough to cause a blockage or to cause severe GI distress.

Some dogs are better "chewers" than others. I would not personally feed ribs to a dog that didn't virtually pulverize the bones.

I'm sure the OP who has been through the trauma of seeing her dog go through a blockage doesn't want a repeat experience.

Bill


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

Beef bones are a whole different situation. No no's for about all dogs, unless you want broken teeth, or a blockage. But you know that... 

Pork RIBS ( not weight bearing bones), are typically easy for most dogs. And yes, they have to chew. Chicken bones could cause a blockage too, if not eaten correctly. It's why you should always keep an eye on your dog while they eat, and KNOW your dog. Feed correctly. Always.


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## OtherGuy (Nov 30, 2016)

In this instance we have a dog that has had an obstruction with a beef rib and one that has a permanent pelvic injury that makes it imperative that there is no similar reoccurrence. In this case there is no way I'd feed this dog pork ribs.

That doesn't mean I wouldn't feed any dog pork ribs. With this dog I'd stick to soft edible bones like chicken, duck, etc.

Way less risk. 

It is always important to make sure one has a "chewer" and I know we agree that serving frozen portions encourages good chewing (vs gulping).


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## nicoley2132 (May 26, 2017)

thank you everyone for your input. Yes this was a very scary experience for me. After all the reading and research ive done i still feel very torn on what i truly want to do. My dogs have felt soo good while on the raw diet,(or even could just be because there grain free for the first time) even if it hasnt been totally balanced,but my fear of it not being complete and honestly costing me to much $ to complete it has me thinking this could be harder then i thought since Verity seems to be the key, so far ive been able to feed my dogs for free since I recently got a whole freezer worth of older beef and deer given to me that i was going to use for the dogs, as well as beef livers. I live in a small town in Idaho, our butcher here can get me an endless supply of organs,bones for broth,and some meat mostly beef and pork. can i feed half raw diet am which honestly would consist of beef or deer burger/beef liver/bone broth/small amount of pureed vegi( my dogs eat grass all the time because they like it, they always have so thats why i feel a little extra may be what they need?)/kefir/egg( i have an abundance of free range eggs) and pm grain free kibble to use up alll this meat? im to afraid to ever try bones again so i know i will need to supl. with calcium for that raw meal.


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

The thing with bones, is to feed the correct ones. Just don't feed beef ribs, or weight bearing bones from large animals like cows, deer etc.... chicken bones, turkey bones, pork ribs, deer ribs....

As far as what you are feeding protein wise, just add some chicken, turkey, pork....you can rotate and you have what you need. You already have the organs. Rotating between those, giving bones from chicken or turkey, and you have it. You aren't far off at all. A minimum of three or four proteins is fine if that's all you can get.

NO veggies... All dogs will occasionally munch on some grass now and then, regardless of the best of diets. It's not really known why, but thought to be to ease an upset stomach. When mine do, they throw it back up later, still just as whole as it went in. It doesn't digest. As far as the veggies go, all they do is add carbs, sugar and starch into the diet. What little nutrients are there if any, are nothing that isn't already in meat/bones/organs, which are much more bio available for the dog's body to use.


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## nicoley2132 (May 26, 2017)

i understand the correct bone idea here but im way to afraid to ever put her through that again, so unfortunately i wont be ever feeding bone again,especially because she is a gulper, i cant get her to eat them slower. was my idea for raw am and kibble pm ok?


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## nicoley2132 (May 26, 2017)

also my one collie dog got very very thin on the raw diet, i got a scale and was even weighing her food at roughly 2.5 percent of her body weight shes 48lbs. shes very active! i think in her case she may need the extra carbs from a small amount of vegi. I only give about 2 tablespoons per day of pureed mix


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

nicoley2132 said:


> i understand the correct bone idea here but im way to afraid to ever put her through that again, so unfortunately i wont be ever feeding bone again,especially because she is a gulper, i cant get her to eat them slower. was my idea for raw am and kibble pm ok?


Bones are essential in a raw diet, so they must be added. It's all in feeding the CORRECT bones. Feed larger bones than they are able to swallow whole, and they HAVE to chew. Also, feeding frozen or partially frozen makes them chew even more. They will chew slower when fed correctly.

Some dogs don't do well with both kibble and raw, some do. You don't know that until you try. Honestly, either feed raw, or feed kibble. Decide which way you want to go, and stick with it.


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

nicoley2132 said:


> also my one collie dog got very very thin on the raw diet, i got a scale and was even weighing her food at roughly 2.5 percent of her body weight shes 48lbs. shes very active! i think in her case she may need the extra carbs from a small amount of vegi. I only give about 2 tablespoons per day of pureed mix


Dogs on a raw diet all naturally are leaner, but gain more muscle. It's the way a species appropriate diet naturally works. Everyone thinks they are too thin, but in reality they are a healthy correct weight. People are used to seeing all the heavier and fat dogs on kibble and think it normal. It's not. Those kibble fed dogs look that way because of all the carbs and sugars kibble is filled with. That's not healthy. Not at all. Don't take "weight loss" as the raw not working. It's working like it's supposed too, making your dog a healthier weight, with nice muscling. If you are going to feed raw, first understand HOW to feed it, and what beneficial changes you will see in your dog. Remember, this isn't man made nuggets out of a bag. It's species appropriate and the results are TOTALLY different. Dogs didn't evolve over thousands of years by eating man made, cooked to death artificial ingredients out of a bag...


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## OtherGuy (Nov 30, 2016)

naturalfeddogs said:


> Dogs on a raw diet all naturally are leaner, but gain more muscle. It's the way a species appropriate diet naturally works. Everyone thinks they are too thin, but in reality they are a healthy correct weight. People are used to seeing all the heavier and fat dogs on kibble and think it normal. It's not. Those kibble fed dogs look that way because of all the carbs and sugars kibble is filled with. That's not healthy. Not at all. Don't take "weight loss" as the raw not working. It's working like it's supposed too, making your dog a healthier weight, with nice muscling. If you are going to feed raw, first understand HOW to feed it, and what beneficial changes you will see in your dog. Remember, this isn't man made nuggets out of a bag. It's species appropriate and the results are TOTALLY different. Dogs didn't evolve over thousands of years by eating man made, cooked to death artificial ingredients out of a bag...


+1

Dogs fed raw tend to have a very different body type. Lean and muscular. That's a good thing.

I understand the OPs concern about bone. But bone is essential in a raw diet. I'd stick with soft edible bone (like chicken) only and serve the bone-in pieces frozen so the dog needs to learn to chew vs gulping.

With the good supply of meats I would not feed a half-kibble diet.

Bill


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## OldGnarlHead (Feb 17, 2016)

We spend WAY less on raw food than we do on high-quality kibble. Also, yes, I freaked out when my dog lost weight on raw too, but it is natural and we get compliments on her physique all the time. As long as your vet isn't worried I wouldn't be either. My dog lost 10 pounds (which was 23% of her bodyweight) and our vet still thought she was at a fine weight. You have to remember this is how our dogs, the literal wolves in our living rooms, evolved to eat meat and bones. 

If feeding whole bone bothers you, feed ground. Any form of raw is better than even the best kibble


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