# So, my brother wants a dog...



## CorgiPaws

...and he's a pretty good pet owner, but at the end of the day his wife and kids are definitely a notch or two above the dog. I told him to check out a shelter, and he might, but personal preference... and I'm not going to list the reasons, nor defend the choice.. he would like to go to a breeder. 

His "wants" list:
Easily trained
moderate energy level
good with kids
30lbs-60lbs preferably. 
Prefer short hair, but flexible
Grooming needs aren't really a concern. 

Breeds that are out, by his choice:
labs
any "toy" breed
Giant breeds
anything insanely fluffy

I was thinking something like an English Cocker Spaniel might be a good fit, but I can't really come up with much for him. He wants to get a puppy for his wife for Christmas (she has been begging him for one for a while, and he keeps telling her no... but really he wants one too, he just wants to surprise her... so while I know and understand the "Christmas puppy" debate, it's not a "man surprises wife with puppy, wife doesn't want puppy" kind of story. 
His wife hasn't given ANY suggestions on breed, honestly... she's one of those people that doesn't know a ton about different breeds... they just want a dog and he asked me to help him find the right one for their family. 

About his family/lifestyle:
They have a 1.5 year old daughter that loves dogs, even my big ones don't scare her a bit. Someone is almost always home, but they aren't huge outdoorsey people aside from camping. The puppy will come to daycare semi frequently,(1-2 days/week) but otherwise a walk around the block and playtime in the backyard with the family is about it. They go boating a couple times a year too. They are expecting baby #2, and I grilled him about how much of a commitment a puppy is. He gets it. He's going to take basic obedience classes. He has a huge back yard, but the dog will be primarily indoors. 


Any suggestions?

ETA: He will be feeding PMR. :wink:


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## Sprocket

How about a Golden Retriever?


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## CorgiPaws

Sprocket said:


> How about a Golden Retriever?


I think a well-bred golden would work... he wants something a tad bit smaller, though. It's in the running. 

I'm so awful once people put all their "conditions" on what they want at coming up with things. I wish he'd just get over the size thing an get a dane. lol


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## hmbutler

Well I'm gonna be zero help with breed suggestions, because I don't know a lot about most breeds lol. But it certainly sounds like he's ready for a pup, even with baby number 2 on the way - so long as he's thought it all through, it all sounds good. And I think the fact his wife and kids will be a notch or two above the dog still makes him a good pet owner, just means he's a good family man too lol. My husband's health and wellbeing will always be my number one priority over my pets (though I would say my pets come before my friends - don't tell them that lol), but that doesn't mean I love them any less, he's just the LOVE of my life, so it's hard to compete with that :thumb: lol

What about an Australian cattle dog? Or a GSP? I've heard both are very intelligent and easy to train, as well as very good with kids. I'm not sure how they are energy wise though, and if they might be a bit much. But that's about all I can suggest haha


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## Caty M

An English cocker spaniel I think would be a good fit.. the main problem is most of the medium sized breeds are high energy working dogs.


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## Caty M

hmbutler said:


> Well I'm gonna be zero help with breed suggestions, because I don't know a lot about most breeds lol. But it certainly sounds like he's ready for a pup, even with baby number 2 on the way - so long as he's thought it all through, it all sounds good. And I think the fact his wife and kids will be a notch or two above the dog still makes him a good pet owner, just means he's a good family man too lol. My husband's health and wellbeing will always be my number one priority over my pets (though I would say my pets come before my friends - don't tell them that lol), but that doesn't mean I love them any less, he's just the LOVE of my life, so it's hard to compete with that :thumb: lol
> 
> What about an *Australian cattle dog? Or a GSP*? I've heard both are very intelligent and easy to train, as well as very good with kids. I'm not sure how they are energy wise though, and if they might be a bit much. But that's about all I can suggest haha


Both those breeds are EXTREMELY active..


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## CorgiPaws

hmbutler said:


> What about an Australian cattle dog? Or a GSP? I've heard both are very intelligent and easy to train, as well as very good with kids. I'm not sure how they are energy wise though, and if they might be a bit much. But that's about all I can suggest haha


ACD's I've heard are a bit on the demanding side as far as training goes- maybe I'm wrong about that? I also thought about GSP's and Vizslas, but again... I don't know a whole ton about their needs, but I'm pretty sure they need more activity than a couple days of daycare, and stroll around the block every day, maybe I'm wrong?

He's a good pet owner. I wouldn't say he's like a lot of people here whose lives revolve around the dogs... but he's better than average, for sure.


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## Caty M

Honestly if the dog is getting that little exercise I would not even recommend a golden.. they are HYPER puppies.. would he consider dropping the easy to train part and going for something like a pug, frenchie or bulldog?


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## Sprocket

A Basset Hound?


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## minnieme

Someone commented on a different thread today about the awesome temperaments of greyhounds and whippets and that they're a lot like Danes -- can be lazy but can also be quite versatile with exercise -- so if they wanna hike one day that's fine, and go to the kid's soccer game the next, that's fine too. Also often good with people and other dogs -- social and bright -- with little grooming needs and within the weight range.

Also adorable.  I don't know crap about those breeds other than what people mentioned to me today though... just a thought!


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## Caty M

PuppyPaws said:


> ACD's I've heard are a bit on the demanding side as far as training goes- maybe I'm wrong about that? I also thought about GSP's and Vizslas, but again... I don't know a whole ton about their needs, but I'm pretty sure they need more activity than a couple days of daycare, and stroll around the block every day, maybe I'm wrong?
> 
> He's a good pet owner. I wouldn't say he's like a lot of people here whose lives revolve around the dogs... but he's better than average, for sure.


I'd say most of the pointer/hunting breeds like weims, viszlas, GSPs, even Brittany and springer spaniels need a good solid hour to two hours of exercise a day.. and that's not a leashed walk, either.


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## Sprocket

Or a Bulldog!


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## CorgiPaws

Caty M said:


> Honestly if the dog is getting that little exercise I would not even recommend a golden.. they are HYPER puppies.. would he consider dropping the easy to train part and going for something like a pug, frenchie or bulldog?


He doesn't need a NO activity dog... it's not like they never leave the house. They're a young family... days at the park, he jogs about a mile in the morning (very little compared to most dog's needs) they spend a lot of time in their backyard-weather permitting. He's just not going to take it on 8 mile runs, or day-long hikes all the time, or compete in agility, which is why I say "moderate activity." He's probably more active than most people, really, and between that and daycare I'm pretty sure a moderate activity would be just fine.
I advised against the three listed based on general health issues. 

My idea of "low activity" would be a walk around the block every day, and some playtime. 
My idea of "moderate activity" would be like I said, a lot of out and about, a reasonable jog regularly, maybe some daycare/dog park time regularly.
My idea of "high energy" would be regular agility, weight pulling, 8 mile run/hikes every day, etc.

Sorry if I gave the impression the dog would never see daylight, or go out. Yeesh.


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## Caty M

Maybe a golden would be fine then... but I really would get him to look into an English cocker. They seem to fit his needs perfectly except the short hair!


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## minnieme

Hey, what about greyhounds, huh?! I just did some research and they seem like awesome dogs! There is a huuuge influx of them here in southern Wisconsin because of a big race track being shut down, and boy are they cute. :wink: You know my ultimate preference is Danes, but I guess if I couldn't/wouldn't have a giant breed, I'd probably end up with a greyhound -- seem very similar. 

Btw, I have seen Goldens adapt to alllll kinds of lifestyles...they are just that awesome. I love 'em...just not the hair. :smile: Minnie's boyfriend is a GR and she thinks he's totaaaaallly dreamy.


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## Zar

A Bichon Frise seems like it would fit besides the grooming issue. Every Bichon I've known has been an absolutely great family dog though - plenty of energy to play, but not really requiring a large amount of exercise otherwise, along with being really friendly and loveable to nearly anyone. They all seemed pretty smart/easy to train too.


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## chowder

I second the "Well bred" golden idea. I raised my two little toddlers with a labrador and something that size is great with little kids. They can crawl around on top of the dog, sleep on top of it, hang on it, and the dog just loves it. My son was crawling on the Lab from 9 months old on up. If you get sometime smaller, like a cocker, then you have to really start to worry about toddlers accidently stepping on it's tail or chasing it, or yanking it's ears too hard and you have to constantly watch their interactions. I like a dog of at least 60 pounds minimum (prefer bigger) with toddlers. My chows were even that size and did well with toddlers. If the kids got too rough, the Chows just stood up and left. Goldens would be the same but I think less 'hyper' as a pup then Labs. At least the ones I've met. 

I had to keep the Lhasa away from the little kids at all times......they'd step on her and there would be problems. Kids are just plain painful to little dogs.


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## meggels

I thought brittany as well.

Whippets are great dogs


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## IslandPaws4Raw

I think there will be a down-side to any breed given the criteria.

A Keeshond would work well for size, temperment and energy levels. The coat might be a big no-no though, it's still not as high maintenance as it may seem.

Or how about an English Setter, not as large as a golden, and probably a little more even tempered (bench bred).

They could also try those on-line pet matching tests...........


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## nikkiluvsu15

If you do a pet breed matching tests, I suggest this one. It is the most accurate one I've done... I got 100% matches for Labs and Vizslas, which are the breeds that I'm going to own. Already have my Lab, just gotta get a V now :wink:

K9 Country- Dog Breed Selection Tool


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## lauren43

First and foremost I am going to push for a rescue and an adult. Even if he just visits a couple of shelters that would make me happy. You never know what you might come across while browsing.

If he really really can't find anything through that avenue then I guess breeders are ok. Is he sure he wants a puppy? A baby and a puppy at the same time would be like having twins lol.

Finally these are my suggestions, with every breed there will be one or two undesirable traits...he going to be hard pressed to find a breed that meets all his needs but here's my two cents...

Pug or French Bulldog: both big dogs in a little package, short hair, and good family pets with an on and off switch as far as energy. On the other hand they may be smaller than he's looking for as well as the health aliments and possible stubborness.

Bernese Mountain dogs: although a working breed, I see many ppl with them. They seem to work when its time to work and relax when its time to relax. Though he could get one full of energy...who knows? The hair may be a bit long and they can get pretty large maybe bigger than what he's looking for.

Stafordshire terrier: yes I said it. Although they can be a high energy breed I have seen many many with an off switch. They can keep up with the energy of the family or happily snuggle on the couch. They are great family dogs, love kids and actually because of their high pain tolerance are better suited for children as they can handle some rough play (of course kids and animals should always be supervised together). They have short hair and are generally 30-40lbs. No they are not a dog for everyone but I can tell you right now Avery (my dog who is of course a mix, which is why I already pushed the mix factor) would fit perfectly into your brothers family.

Boxer: you didn't mention them? They have about the same energy requirements as staffies. They are great family dogs, they are within his size range and have short hair...

Ok that's all I've got. 

Oh Greyhounds are a good suggestion. Not sure of he would get a pup or a retired racer. I know many ppl don't like the "look" of them, I love them. Not sure how they are with kids though.


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## Sprocket

nikkiluvsu15 said:


> If you do a pet breed matching tests, I suggest this one. It is the most accurate one I've done... I got 100% matches for Labs and Vizslas, which are the breeds that I'm going to own. Already have my Lab, just gotta get a V now :wink:
> 
> K9 Country- Dog Breed Selection Tool


I like that test except the disclaimer that said "if you aren't willing to train your dog, then you will be limited to tiny breeds that don't need training"

Personally I think if you aren't going to train your dog, you need to get a hamster.


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## Scarlett_O'

I was going to suggest English Cocker, English Springer, Basset Hound...I have had 2 out of 3 of them....well bred ones are even tempered great dogs, and I cant even begin to imagine how happy our 3 Spingers or our Basset would have been on PMR!LOL :lol:

There was a REALLY good breeder of English Cockers up in Draper when I lived there, met her at the Sandy PetsMart when I worked there.....I shall see if she is still breeding, her dogs where BEAUTIFUL and OMG so sweet!!!


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## hmbutler

nikkiluvsu15 said:


> If you do a pet breed matching tests, I suggest this one. It is the most accurate one I've done... I got 100% matches for Labs and Vizslas, which are the breeds that I'm going to own. Already have my Lab, just gotta get a V now :wink:
> 
> K9 Country- Dog Breed Selection Tool


I just did that test, got 3 matches for 100%... greater swiss mountain dogs, harriers, and.. labrador retrievers! hooray! haha. good to know duke and I really are a good fit :biggrin: even though sometimes I wonder what the  I've gotten myself into haha


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## chowder

I still think the key here is that the brother has toddlers. Toddlers are very scary to smaller dogs. They toddle. They fall a lot. They SQUEAL and grab when they fall. Big dogs don't mind this. A twenty pound toddler grabbing onto a 100 pound dogs tail and hanging on is no big deal. A twenty pound toddler grabbing a twenty pound dog's tail and hanging on is a VERY big deal to the dog. 

An example is Rocky. He does NOT like adults. But little bitty kids can look him straight in the eye and throw their arms around his neck and hug him with no problem. They are not a threat to him. Most are below or at his eye level. Scares their parents half to death!

I think big is better with toddlers. Also, big dogs move slower and are less of a threat to a toddler. They don't dash around and make real sudden movements. They just kind of lay there and take the abuse but occasionaly will knock a toddler over by accident. 

If I ever had toddlers again (dog forbid) I would stick with dogs over 100 pounds. My lab was over 100 pounds and could take anything they could dish out. Heck, I'd probably go Great Dane, or Newfies. Now, once you start talking 6-7 year old kids, then you are talking a whole nother catagory of dogs.


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## Scarlett_O'

chowder said:


> I still think the key here is that the brother has toddlers. Toddlers are very scary to smaller dogs. They toddle. They fall a lot. They SQUEAL and grab when they fall. Big dogs don't mind this. A twenty pound toddler grabbing onto a 100 pound dogs tail and hanging on is no big deal. A twenty pound toddler grabbing a twenty pound dog's tail and hanging on is a VERY big deal to the dog.
> 
> An example is Rocky. He does NOT like adults. But little bitty kids can look him straight in the eye and throw their arms around his neck and hug him with no problem. They are not a threat to him. Most are below or at his eye level. Scares their parents half to death!
> 
> I think big is better with toddlers. Also, big dogs move slower and are less of a threat to a toddler. They don't dash around and make real sudden movements. They just kind of lay there and take the abuse but occasionaly will knock a toddler over by accident.
> 
> If I ever had toddlers again (dog forbid) I would stick with dogs over 100 pounds. My lab was over 100 pounds and could take anything they could dish out. Heck, I'd probably go Great Dane, or Newfies. Now, once you start talking 6-7 year old kids, then you are talking a whole nother catagory of dogs.


This is SOO true!! I know we had our 2-3 Springers till I was 3 and 1/2....they where AMAZING with my brother and I!!(I use to escape my crib to go curl up with my Dad's female....I SWEAR I thought that I was one of her pups!!:tongue Then we had a Malamute/Husky, when my sister was 1-2, so I was 4-5 and my brother was 3-4, Chico was A-MAZ-ING with us!:thumb: Now our Lhasas, although they are/where GREAT dogs...Im VERY glad that my sister was the youngest at 6 when we got them!:wink:


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## Caty M

English cockers aren't tiny though, they are just under or right around the 30lb mark. My boyfriend's boss has one and she is lovely and is the sweetest dog ever. They don't have kids so I don't know but she puts up with Tess pulling on her ears and chewing on her tail, LOL. If he takes the dog jogging with him most dogs would probably be fine though I still would not recommend a Brittany or viszla, weimeraner, GSP etc. They are some of the most active dogs you can get. 

WOULD they consider a greyhound? They may be a good choice as has been said.


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## Caty M

I got two matches.. Italian greyhound and whippet! Shelties were high, also!


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## xellil

What about a Doberman? They come in various sizes (you can get them about 50-60 pounds) and they have medium energy, as well as being really good with kids and overall have wonderful dispositions. 

They do have some health issues but not as much as alot of other dogs. Their body structure is ok, some chance of cardiomyopathy.

I had a Doberman when my son was a toddler. Not only did the dog allow anything to be done to him, he would put his body between my son and any perceived danger. He truly thought he was a nanny.


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## Zar

nikkiluvsu15 said:


> If you do a pet breed matching tests, I suggest this one. It is the most accurate one I've done... I got 100% matches for Labs and Vizslas, which are the breeds that I'm going to own. Already have my Lab, just gotta get a V now :wink:
> 
> K9 Country- Dog Breed Selection Tool


It gave me 70 different matches, hahahah. I'll take any dog.


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## Sprocket

Zar said:


> It gave me 70 different matches, hahahah. I'll take any dog.


When I took it it gave me 13, 100% matches and 100 90-80% matches!


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## Muttkip

A Beagle seems to be right up his alley!!


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## DeekenDog

What about a beagle? Not my breed of choice but if he's ok with a scent hound it sounds like they might be a good match. I also think that a greyhound might be a good match.

ETA: Muttkip, beat me to it!


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## chowder

Interesting test. Apparently I need to get a Chow! Then maybe a GSD, an Akita and a Shetland Sheepdog? I have no idea where that last one came from!! I only got 9 breeds to chose from, but they threw in all the northern breeds as my back-ups so that's okay with me!


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## luvMyBRT

Standard Poodle.

Very smart, easy to train, no shedding, great with kids, easy to groom and keep the hair short...


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## Tobi

Just maybe... he needs a Tobi!!! :lol:

but in all seriousness i'm terrible at selecting dogs for people! good luck to him it's awesome he's going to be feeding PMR!! :becky:

Just wanted to add... i checked out the dog finder tool... crazy enough i am 100% match for colored or white bull terrier!!! :lol: who would have thought!?!


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## tuckersmom20

I did the test... and got 100% lab!! So i am supposed to have tuck lol!

What about a smaller lab???


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## CorgiPaws

His wife and him decided last night on anAmerican Bulldog. 
I think it will work out well. :smile:
But thank you for all the suggestions!!

ETA: according to the test, I'm a 100% match with Danes, Boxers, and Bullmastiffs!
I have no matches outside the working group. lol


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## lauren43

I got a ton of different matches. Bovuier des flandes and polski I did not expect, but both were 100%...

My 90% were all my dream breeds including Irish Wolfhound, Great Dane, Bullmastiff, German Shepard, St Bernard, rottweiler, mastiff, Bernese Mountain dog...


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## Celt

I got 8 matches. Glad that the Italian Greyhound is a perfect match for me. The only one I was uncertain on was the Pug, cant see myself owning one of them.


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## Scarlett_O'

On the test I had like 47 breeds that where 95% right for me and nearly all the others where 80% right...with the only reason that some of them didnt score being their size(too small...since I have the only 2 small dogs that I want for a LONG time)!


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## Tobi

PuppyPaws said:


> His wife and him decided last night on anAmerican Bulldog.
> I think it will work out well. :smile:
> But thank you for all the suggestions!!
> 
> ETA: according to the test, I'm a 100% match with Danes, Boxers, and Bullmastiffs!
> I have no matches outside the working group. lol


I love a nice american Bulldog!!!! they are so beautiful a great breed! good for him! :becky:


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## MollyWoppy

Huh, the test came up with a Basset Hound and a Bulldog for me. Which, considering I love running around and doing stuff, basically can't sit still and dogs I've known of that breed are more laid back, suggests I answered something incorrectly. So, did it again, and it came up with a ACD (yahhhh!) and Suluki!?


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## minnieme

Tobi said:


> I love a nice american Bulldog!!!! they are so beautiful a great breed! good for him! :becky:


Beautiful is not the first adjective that comes to my mind when I hear "bulldog." :wink: Don't get me wrong; I love 'em...but for some reason they look like grumpy old men to me! :biggrin:


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## CorgiPaws

minnieme said:


> Beautiful is not the first adjective that comes to my mind when I hear "bulldog." :wink: Don't get me wrong; I love 'em...but for some reason they look like grumpy old men to me! :biggrin:


it's all part of the charm! LOL


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## Janet At Nutro

Well I was going to say Boxer, or a small adult Great Dane.
There's not much difference between 60 and 90 pounds!


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## Zar

Sprocket said:


> When I took it it gave me 13, 100% matches and 100 90-80% matches!


I had 70 100% matches and I don't even know how many 80-90.


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## xellil

I had zero 100% matches. I guess no dog fits me.


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5

surprised they went for n American bulldog...a good 100 pounds over their desired breeds..i was going to recommend a gordon setter.


PuppyPaws said:


> it's all part of the charm! LOL


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## CorgiPaws

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> surprised they went for n American bulldog...a good 100 pounds over their desired breeds..i was going to recommend a gordon setter.


They have a rather large size range.... but I've never seen a 170lb AmBully. 
Most that I've seen are 60-100 lbs. So, yes, bigger than he thought he wanted, but size & coat were two things he was willing to compromise on.


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## meggels

plus, couldnt he just keep an eye out for a litter with smaller lines? wouldn't be too hard  kinda like with dobes. you see smaller ones, my friend has one thats like 115...


and boxers too i guess, though i know that the gigantor ones are actually incorrect lol


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## leilaquinn

OK, I'll be predictable, Pit bulls, staffybulls, amstaffs, american bullies are all great with kids, typically, and also fit what he's looking for.


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5

PuppyPaws said:


> They have a rather large size range.... but I've never seen a 170lb AmBully.
> Most that I've seen are 60-100 lbs. So, yes, bigger than he thought he wanted, but size & coat were two things he was willing to compromise on.


when i said around 100 i was basing it on a 30- pound dog lol. i also was under the impression that the average for the bulldog was 125ish. turns out they are 70-140 and 20-28 inches.
i was also shocked they arent akc registered i dont really consider a dog a purebred if it's not akc. either way american bulldogs are awesome!


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5

he got an american bully 
but going by the original op how does a mastiff fit what he;s looking for?


leilaquinn said:


> OK, I'll be predictable, Pit bulls, staffybulls, amstaffs, american bullies are all great with kids, typically, and also fit what he's looking for.


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## CorgiPaws

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> when i said around 100 i was basing it on a 30- pound dog lol. i also was under the impression that the average for the bulldog was 125ish. turns out they are 70-140 and 20-28 inches.
> i was also shocked they arent akc registered i dont really consider a dog a purebred if it's not akc. either way american bulldogs are awesome!


You... DO know the definition of "purebred".... don't you?


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5

PuppyPaws said:


> You... DO know the definition of "purebred".... don't you?


hhmmmmmmmmmm


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## CorgiPaws

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> hhmmmmmmmmmm


purebred= not mixed with other breeds. It has nothing to do with registration or "papers"
In fact, many "papered" and registered dogs are in fact mixes. 

They are a well-established breed, but no, not recognized by the AKC> Some other registries recognize them though.


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5

PuppyPaws said:


> purebred= not mixed with other breeds. It has nothing to do with registration or "papers"
> In fact, many "papered" and registered dogs are in fact mixes.
> 
> They are a well-established breed, but no, not recognized by the AKC> Some other registries recognize them though.


well yeah I knew that part lol but if akc doesnt recognize the as a breed...if we were to aask akc what they think of the dog wouldnt they say it was a mix? Since technically it is not a breed to them?

and yeah a lot of papered dogs today are getting effed up.....and not only that but it seems like it's legal to sell mixed breeds in pet stores.....we know someone who does this.


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## Sprocket

Isn't an American Bully one of those strange freaky looking bulldog/pitbull designer breeds?


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## lauren43

I was going to suggest American Bulldog but got distracted writing my ten page response. I love american bulldogs!!! I hope I don't offend anyone but Im happy to hear American over the English...


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## Caty M

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> well yeah I knew that part lol but if akc doesnt recognize the as a breed...if we were to aask akc what they think of the dog wouldnt they say it was a mix? Since technically it is not a breed to them?
> 
> and yeah a lot of papered dogs today are getting effed up.....and not only that but it seems like it's legal to sell mixed breeds in pet stores.....we know someone who does this.


The AKC only represents a very small number of breeds.. they are not the ultimate authority on dog breeds. Likely they would just say it's a breed or type they don't recognize. There are hundreds of dog breeds that aren't represented by the AKC.

Of course it's legal to sell mixed breeds.. they are a money maker, so they breed and sell them.

Actually here it's against the law to sell a "chihuahua" in a pet store if it's not registered... it will be labelled as "chihuahua type".


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## CorgiPaws

Sprocket said:


> Isn't an American Bully one of those strange freaky looking bulldog/pitbull designer breeds?


No, Am. Bullies are not a designer breed. And, "freaky looking" is purely opinion. They are not AKC registerable but are recognized by most other registries including the UKC which is IMO just as credible.
By the way, HI, nice to meet you, I'm PuppyPaws, and I don't like it when people post for the sole purpose of being rude. 



lauren43 said:


> I was going to suggest American Bulldog but got distracted writing my ten page response. I love american bulldogs!!! I hope I don't offend anyone but Im happy to hear American over the English...


They're a breed I considered and ultimately picked Boxer for myself... but I'm excited that he picked that. And... he had interest in the English Bulldogs, but I gently steered him away, due to health concerns. I think he will be really happy with this breed, and am glad he picked something I won't mind dog sitting! lol


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## Sprocket

PuppyPaws said:


> No, Am. Bullies are not a designer breed. And, "freaky looking" is purely opinion. They are not AKC registerable but are recognized by most other registries including the UKC which is IMO just as credible.
> By the way, HI, nice to meet you, I'm PuppyPaws, and I don't like it when people post for the sole purpose of being rude.l


....was not intending to be rude. It was simply a personal observation. In my area American bully's are a strange breed created by people who aren't normally look upon as "good dog owners". 

This is what I'm referring to- American Bully dogs Information and Pictures, Am Bullies

Or are you speaking of an American Bulldog? - American Bulldog Information and Pictures

American *bulldogs* are great dogs! I've always liked American Bulldogs but they are completely different from AmBullies. 

Good luck to him either way! And Nice to meet you too PuppyPaws


----------



## CorgiPaws

Sprocket said:


> ....was not intending to be rude. It was simply a personal observation. In my area American bully's are a strange breed created by people who aren't normally look upon as "good dog owners".
> 
> This is what I'm referring to- American Bully dogs Information and Pictures, Am Bullies
> 
> Or are you speaking of an American Bulldog? - American Bulldog Information and Pictures
> 
> American bulldogs are great dogs! Can't say the same for the other one.
> 
> Good luck to him either way! And Nice to meet you too PuppyPaws


Well, can't say I've ever seen the first listed. I've seen "Am. Bully" used for American Bulldog as short.... but wasn't aware there was actually a "Designer breed" swooping in being called the same thing. My apologies for the misunderstanding. 
He is getting an American Bulldog. :tongue:


----------



## Sprocket

PuppyPaws said:


> Well, can't say I've ever seen the first listed. I've seen "Am. Bully" used for American Bulldog as short.... but wasn't aware there was actually a "Designer breed" swooping in being called the same thing. My apologies for the misunderstanding.
> He is getting an American Bulldog. :tongue:


Ah I see, it was a silly play of words 

Am bullies are big around here unfortunately. I'm glad they are getting an American Bulldog, they are a breed I've always liked.


----------



## Dude and Bucks Mamma

What about a Chesapeake Bay Retriever? I practically raised our neighbors' and she is the sweetest, most loving dog. They can be a handful during training but once they are trained they are pretty easily controlled. She is a dream. 

Or a smooth collie? They are herding dogs but they are pretty well known for being couch potatoes. Dude has never required a ton of exercise. He is 78 lbs but isn't hard to handle at all. My little brothers used to take him out into the coul de sac to walk him when they were in diapers (with us out there, of course!). With a furminator he takes 15 minutes every 2 or 3 days to keep shedding down. 

Or what about a Cardigan Corgi? My trainer had several around her horses and all of them were always super mellow. And they weren't working dogs. They were just pets.

I don't know. If I think of any more I'll write them down. I'm the same way. Once people start throwing out guidelines and restrictions I stumble over my dog breed knowledge and can't think of a single breed to fit those guidelines.


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## Oso

PuppyPaws said:


> Well, can't say I've ever seen the first listed. I've seen "Am. Bully" used for American Bulldog as short.... but wasn't aware there was actually a "Designer breed" swooping in being called the same thing. My apologies for the misunderstanding.
> He is getting an American Bulldog. :tongue:


Yea American Bullies kind of stole the "AmBully" title lol They are a pure designer breed (unless you get older strains that hold true to the original mix that can weight pull or hog hunt or something useful-ish)
AmBullies started as a mix between the American Staffordshire Terrier and the American Pit Bull Terrier, some of them are nice looking dogs, some you cant roll a soda can under and they are 19'' tall and 100+lbs! 
They are very mellow dogs, still have terrier in them but if you get the more designer version they make very laid back house dogs, similar to a English Bulldog or something, seeing as some breeders mix in EBs, Pugs, Basset, Mastiff, etc. 

American Bulldogs have always held a spot in my heart, they are wonderful dogs! What "style" of Am. Bulldog has he decided on?


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## meggels

wasn't it an american bulldog in Homeward Bound?

Best and most tear inducing movie ever <3 

I always loved that movie, and I feel like an American Bulldog would sound just like he does in the movie LOL


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## hmbutler

awwwwww chance!! such a good movie


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## Scarlett_O'

LOVE American Bulldogs...even more so because they arent with the AKC!:tongue:

As for the AKC.....well I will NOT have a Border Collie who is registered with them if they arent duel registered with our mother club, ABCA!:wink: 

AKC, sadly aids in people ruining a LOT of breeds because of being bred for what is winning!:frown: But ANYWAYS...that is a TOTALLY different thread!!:wink: :tongue1:


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## Celt

huh, the American Bully looks like one of the pitbull types here. I forget what "bloodline" it is. There are 3 types here but they aren't crossbred with any others but the dogs in their "registry"


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## Slayer Girl

I was told bull terrier or bloodhound..


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## Slayer Girl

Celt said:


> huh, the American Bully looks like one of the pitbull types here. I forget what "bloodline" it is. There are 3 types here but they aren't crossbred with any others but the dogs in their "registry"


Originally the Am.Bully was pit bull type dogs outcrossed with bulkier and stumpier dogs..so that makes sense since the APBT is part of the am.bully lineage.


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## Zar

Sprocket said:


> Ah I see, it was a silly play of words
> 
> Am bullies are big around here unfortunately. I'm glad they are getting an American Bulldog, they are a breed I've always liked.


American Bullies are an unfortunately big thing around here too. If you look at craigslist for my area there's countless ads for blue American Bully pups. I thought the same thing when she first said AmBully, but read elsewhere that she said American Bulldog so I assumed.


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## CorgiPaws

Scarlett_O' said:


> LOVE American Bulldogs...even more so because they arent with the AKC!:tongue:
> 
> As for the AKC.....well I will NOT have a Border Collie who is registered with them if they arent duel registered with our mother club, ABCA!:wink:
> 
> AKC, sadly aids in people ruining a LOT of breeds because of being bred for what is winning!:frown: But ANYWAYS...that is a TOTALLY different thread!!:wink: :tongue1:


I find this really contradictory because the parent club sets the standard, not the AKC. The AKC is just a registry that holds shows. Shows that are based on the standards set by parent clubs. 
I DO think the AKC should require applicable health tests to he done for dogs to get titles, and they could do more to deny titles to heavily line bred dogs.... but the parent clubs IMO hold more blame....


----------



## magicre

off hand, dogs that are good with kids would be at the top of my list....

how are herding breeds, like corgis and aussies with kids....


----------



## magicre

PuppyPaws said:


> No, Am. Bullies are not a designer breed. And, "freaky looking" is purely opinion. They are not AKC registerable but are recognized by most other registries including the UKC which is IMO just as credible.
> By the way, HI, nice to meet you, I'm PuppyPaws, and I don't like it when people post for the sole purpose of being rude.
> 
> 
> They're a breed I considered and ultimately picked Boxer for myself... but I'm excited that he picked that. And... he had interest in the English Bulldogs, but I gently steered him away, due to health concerns. I think he will be really happy with this breed, and am glad he picked something I won't mind dog sitting! lol


aren't american bulldogs heavier than what he wanted? he said between 30-60 lbs...i thought they were an 80 lbs breed...


----------



## CorgiPaws

magicre said:


> off hand, dogs that are good with kids would be at the top of my list....
> 
> how are herding breeds, like corgis and aussies with kids....


I can't speak for all hearing breeds but Corgis are good with kids if they're around them young. Otherwise, they tend to try to heard them... which includes nips to the heels. Of course theres exceptions. 



magicre said:


> aren't american bulldogs heavier than what he wanted? he said between 30-60 lbs...i thought they were an 80 lbs breed...


Yeah, they're a bit bigger than he had planned. I told him he would need to compromise somewhere and both size and coat type were pretty flexible.


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## magicre

PuppyPaws said:


> I can't speak for all hearing breeds but Corgis are good with kids if they're around them young. Otherwise, they tend to try to heard them... which includes nips to the heels. Of course theres exceptions.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, they're a bit bigger than he had planned. I told him he would need to compromise somewhere and both size and coat type were pretty flexible.


is that a bad thing to have their heels nipped 

we were going to get an american bulldog. had extensive conversations with a breeder around where we live....awesome dog.....i hope it all works out. 

i think as long as he doesn't mind an 80 pound ish dog or so....he'll be happy with his choice.


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## catahoulamom

American Bulldog :








American Bully :









American Bullies make me sad. I feel like they're the English bulldog of the pit bull world... (no offense, I love English Bulldogs, just hate seeing the health problems they often come with). I feel like whoever breeds them is just breeding to make "mean" looking dogs (not that they ARE mean, but c'mon, there is no other reason to breed such deformed dogs). 

That being said, an American Bulldog is a great choice! They're very popular here in Miami, and I've met several that are WONDERFUL with kids.


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## Sprocket

Julie said:


> American Bulldog :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> American Bully :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> American Bullies make me sad. I feel like they're the English bulldog of the pit bull world... (no offense, I love English Bulldogs, just hate seeing the health problems they often come with). I feel like whoever breeds them is just breeding to make "mean" looking dogs (not that they ARE mean, but c'mon, there is no other reason to breed such deformed dogs).
> 
> That being said, an American Bulldog is a great choice! They're very popular here in Miami, and I've met several that are WONDERFUL with kids.



I have no doubt they are wonderful with kids. My main beef with them is the health issues resulting from such a strange body type and the people breeding them. It scares me to think whats some of these dogs are subject to. They are pretty popular in the Bay area and I find many on craiglist. My APBT is considered "blue" and many people ask "Is he Gotti or Razors Edge bred?" 

UM no, he is a shelter mutt and not some fabricated freak show.:tsk:


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## xellil

honestly, that's just sad. That's the first dog I've ever seen that looks like that. Poor thing, he's a caricature of a dog. Wonder what kinds of health problems that disfigurement causes.


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## CorgiPaws

Well my apologies for the misunderstanding I've never even SEEN a dog like that or knew they existed. They certainly aren't popular around anywhere I've lived.... thank goodness. 



Glad I know now!


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## meggels

Met this little girl today in a store. She's an 8 week old American Bulldog/English Bulldog cross. Mina is her name. Hard to tell, but her patches are stripey brindling  She was SO SO SO SO cute. Thought of you when she came in Linsey lol


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## Scarlett_O'

PuppyPaws said:


> I find this really contradictory because the parent club sets the standard, not the AKC. The AKC is just a registry that holds shows. Shows that are based on the standards set by parent clubs.
> I DO think the AKC should require applicable health tests to he done for dogs to get titles, and they could do more to deny titles to heavily line bred dogs.... but the parent clubs IMO hold more blame....


I shall have to disagree with you on this one, but I dont want to go totally OT on your thread!:smile:
But I will say, there was a HUGE split with Border Collie people when one "parent" club disagreed with another when one wanted to be added into the AKC. ABCA allows dogs to be duel registered but if they are shown in AKC shows they will have their registration revoked. There is a HUGE difference in "AKC/show bred" Border Collies and "field/working/ABCA bred" Border Collies, in looks, size, temperament and ability/willingness to work!:smile:


----------



## CorgiPaws

Scarlett_O' said:


> I shall have to disagree with you on this one, but I dont want to go totally OT on your thread!:smile:
> But I will say, there was a HUGE split with Border Collie people when one "parent" club disagreed with another when one wanted to be added into the AKC. ABCA allows dogs to be duel registered but if they are shown in AKC shows they will have their registration revoked. There is a HUGE difference in "AKC/show bred" Border Collies and "field/working/ABCA bred" Border Collies, in looks, size, temperament and ability/willingness to work!:smile:


BUT, even so... it's not the AKC that sets the "different" standard, it would be the other Parent Club. The AKC does NOT set breed standards. It is very _simply_ a registry, and avenue for showing. Parent Clubs set 100% of the standards.


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## Celt

Personally, I don't think the AKC *causes* the problem but they do *support* the "parent" club's standard. And of course the AKC sponsored shows help influence the public because the "winning" dogs have to be the best and what the breed is suppose to look like.


----------



## Oso

Sprocket said:


> I have no doubt they are wonderful with kids. My main beef with them is the health issues resulting from such a strange body type and the people breeding them. It scares me to think whats some of these dogs are subject to. They are pretty popular in the Bay area and I find many on craiglist. My APBT is considered "blue" and many people ask "Is he Gotti or Razors Edge bred?"
> 
> UM no, he is a shelter mutt and not some fabricated freak show.:tsk:




I agree. American Bullies are amazing dogs! Great with kids, probably one of the best family dogs. Everything a APBT is without the crazy high drive and need to work at a job all the time. I love mine. I dont think I was ready for a real APBT. He has prepared me lol. 
I do agree also with the health issues, over done bullies usually dont make it past 5 years WITH GREAT CARE! Its sad, because they are wonderful dogs. BUT not all American Bullies look like that. There are a few classes.. XL, Standard, Classic, Pocket, Extreme, maybe one more if I forgot, so they come in different sizes. 
They are so popular in Arizona, they are the only "bully" dogs on CL usually. Most go for $500+ with no health testing, no papers, and probably so inbred they look freaky.
Not to derail this thread but I would love to see your APBT and its "blue" color. 
I get that crap all the time with my dog "Oh nice blue nose" "What is he Gotti/RE/Greyline?" "Oh he is to small to be a pit" all kinds of nonsense..

I also would like to point out, not all American Bullies are fat, over bred, big headed, bow legged freak dogs.. some still look like dogs, and can do jobs.. 
I am proud of my Bully, and even though he is a puppy and still "chubby" I can see great working potential in him


----------



## Oso

Celt said:


> Personally, I don't think the AKC *causes* the problem but they do *support* the "parent" club's standard. And of course the AKC sponsored shows help influence the public because the "winning" dogs have to be the best and what the breed is suppose to look like.


Thats some of the saddest stuff, seeing "show" dogs that go for high amounts of money with so many health problems. The show GSDs with their legs come to mind every time. Its horrible what people do to animals for the sake of "winning"


----------



## Sprocket

Oso said:


> I agree. American Bullies are amazing dogs! Great with kids, probably one of the best family dogs. Everything a APBT is without the crazy high drive and need to work at a job all the time. I love mine. I dont think I was ready for a real APBT. He has prepared me lol.
> I do agree also with the health issues, over done bullies usually dont make it past 5 years WITH GREAT CARE! Its sad, because they are wonderful dogs. BUT not all American Bullies look like that. There are a few classes.. XL, Standard, Classic, Pocket, Extreme, maybe one more if I forgot, so they come in different sizes.
> They are so popular in Arizona, they are the only "bully" dogs on CL usually. Most go for $500+ with no health testing, no papers, and probably so inbred they look freaky.
> Not to derail this thread but I would love to see your APBT and its "blue" color.
> I get that crap all the time with my dog "Oh nice blue nose" "What is he Gotti/RE/Greyline?" "Oh he is to small to be a pit" all kinds of nonsense..
> 
> I also would like to point out, not all American Bullies are fat, over bred, big headed, bow legged freak dogs.. some still look like dogs, and can do jobs..
> I am proud of my Bully, and even though he is a puppy and still "chubby" I can see great working potential in him


OH I'm more than happy to share pictures  

He is 6 months old and 45 lbs. I hate it when people are like "oh hes way too small to be an APBT". He is on track to be an average size APBT and I'm glad! I could have gotten a beast from the rescue but I really just wanted a medium sized dog. Pitbulls shouldn't be huge dogs and I'm glad because they are strong!


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## lauren43

Oso said:


> I agree. American Bullies are amazing dogs! Great with kids, probably one of the best family dogs. Everything a APBT is without the crazy high drive and need to work at a job all the time. I love mine. I dont think I was ready for a real APBT. He has prepared me lol.


I think temperaments vary so much with APBT's, while I agree many do need an outlet to make well rounded dogs, some are more in tune to their owners and are active when their owner is and relax when their owners relax. 



Sprocket said:


> OH I'm more than happy to share pictures
> 
> He is 6 months old and 45 lbs. I hate it when people are like "oh hes way too small to be an APBT". He is on track to be an average size APBT and I'm glad! I could have gotten a beast from the rescue but I really just wanted a medium sized dog. Pitbulls shouldn't be huge dogs and I'm glad because they are strong!


I believe the standard weight range varies from 40lbs-100lbs (those aren't the exact amounts but it is an extreme range)...I think its silly when ppl think they should all be huge. The size increase is relatively new (lots of mixing with mastiffs and other giant breeds), they were original bred to be small muscle machines.


----------



## Oso

Sprocket said:


> OH I'm more than happy to share pictures
> 
> He is 6 months old and 45 lbs. I hate it when people are like "oh hes way too small to be an APBT". He is on track to be an average size APBT and I'm glad! I could have gotten a beast from the rescue but I really just wanted a medium sized dog. Pitbulls shouldn't be huge dogs and I'm glad because they are strong!




Not to be the bearer of other news, but that pup at 6 months old and being 45lbs is more likely than not an American BullyX, MAYBE an AmstaffX. But thats really probably not an APBT. He is actually already the weight most full grown APBTs are. My boy is 9months old and about 50-55+lbs. 
He is gorgeous though! Love the chest ticking! Did you get him from a breeder? I wouldn't say he is going to be an overly huge dog, but the bone structure and size at 6months old tells me he is going to be a good sized pup! 
Just a little tidbit about the blue color and true APBTs, back in the old days blue APBTs were very few and far in between and when one was bred it wasnt the color "blue" we think of today. Just take this into consideration, blue APBTs were very hard to find back when APBTs where in their purebred hay day, and they werent being selected for so they were even farther in between occurrences, so the chances of a purebred APBT today coming out blue, are about slim to none.
Most breeders of American Bullies CLAIM they have true game bred APBTs, when in fact they dont. I could pass my boy off as an APBT because of his body style, but he isnt, because again the chances of me getting a rescue APBT that happens to be blue is probably impossible. Not hating on your dog, but the dog other than the American Bully that pulls that blue color, is the Amstaff, but not the APBT.

You are very right though, a real APBT is anywhere from 40-60lbs, give or take. Some family lines throw slightly heavier or slightly lighter dogs.


----------



## Oso

lauren43 said:


> I think temperaments vary so much with APBT's, while I agree many do need an outlet to make well rounded dogs, some are more in tune to their owners and are active when their owner is and relax when their owners relax.
> 
> 
> 
> I believe the standard weight range varies from 40lbs-100lbs (those aren't the exact amounts but it is an extreme range)...I think its silly when ppl think they should all be huge. The size increase is relatively new (lots of mixing with mastiffs and other giant breeds), they were original bred to be small muscle machines.


That is true, each dog is an individual like a person. Some have higher energy than others and siblings can vary quite a bit. I was just referring to a purebred APBT, as opposed to a regular ole American Bully. Their energy level is much different. I do agree though some purebred APBTs are couch potato's and dont need as much work as another one. 

The standard weight to what? APBTs? They are about 40-60lbs give or take. Anything up to 100lbs is probably not a real APBT. Its all about improper education and people thinking that Joe Shmoe who breeds 100+lbs 25inch around headed dogs is breeding APBTs when they arent. I try and explain that to people because most of the "pit bulls" people see on tv or in the news arent APBTs at all. 
The mixing of breeds into the "APBTs" is what produced the American Bully. AmBullies started as Amstaff/APBTs and there are a few breeders who still hold true to that, and their dogs look relatively okay and are nice normal looking dogs. Its when the public got started breeding them and creating new lines and clubs and different stuff that everything from Mastiff, Pug, English Bulldog and Basset hound got mixed in. So now you end up with dogs called American Bullies that can vary from 120+lbs and tall as a horse, to dogs that are under 17inches tall and around 90lbs. Its sad the state that that "breed" is in. They are trying to set a permanent standard but who knows.
Also adding to the confusion the UKC and AKC (one of the other, or both) are allowing dogs that have been cross bred to be registered in their clubs, so your getting people selling "Amstaffs" and "APBT" that are 15-19inches high, blue and 90lbs or some other extreme.


----------



## doggoblin

Great to hear the choice. We have an American Bulldog and an Old English bulldog (not standard English bulldog as we hate the health issues). Will say the American Bulldog we have is one of the soppiest dogs I know although they are banned in parts of Germany. Another possible option if someone is looking at bullies is the Old English Bulldog or Leavitt bulldog, "designed" to be an english bulldog without the health issues.

OK can't resist adding a pic as we love our bullies...


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## lauren43

The AKC's American Staffordshire Terrier does not have a weight requirement but a height requirement of 17-19 inches, so they probably weigh 35-50lbs.
The AKC's Staffordshire Bull Terrier ranges between 28-38lbs

The UKC's American Pitbull terrier ranges between 30-60lbs
The UKC's Staffordshire Bull Terrier ranges between 28-38lbs

-----------------------------------------------------------
What I meant in my previous post was that ppl consider many dogs pit mixes and their sizes range dramatically...

The American Bully you keep discussing is the strange mix with the mutant dogs like others have posted, correct? I don't consider them a breed, similar to the labradoodle.

Sprocket could have a a pure bred APBT outside the standard size range. The only way to know is from a pedigree, which may or may not be helpful.


----------



## Oso

Yea the American Bully is a new "breed" a designer dog pretty much. They are trying to get them established but with their mixed breeding and paper hanging and continually calling them Amstaff and APBT they are nothing but "mutts" in reality. I love them but they havnt been around long enough to be a true breed in my book. 

I can guarantee that dog is not a APBT. I ped would help, because you can see whats behind and make a better guess. Chances are if it was from a breeder its an Amstaff that people are breeding to have that blue coat and "Ambully" body style, and it probably has Amstaff dogs behind it that have been bred and changed over to American Bully lines.

You can get APBTs that have been bred off dogs that came over from England that because of their specific breeding they are heavier than the allotted weight, but the chances of getting a dog thats heavy like that, big heavy bones, and a blue coat that is a pure APBT is not likely. 

*IMO the UKC APBT is not what an APBT is, their dogs more closely resemble the Amstaff. When put next to a working APBT they look nothing alike. Its just the way show breeding and breeding away from the DA and all that changes a dog breed. 

The weight ideas are right about though, usually a real APBT is 40-60.


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## ksbsnowowl

Didn't read the whole thread, but I'd have him look at pounds / petfinder again. I have a beagle/German Shepherd mix that hits all the criteria your brother listed. She's 42 lbs, very intelligent, very trainable (I just succeeded at transitioning her to walking off leash), hardly sheds much at all, is good for a 2-mile walk/run, but doesn't beg for it, and has a great temperament. She is a little skittish around kids, but I'm sure that's due to something that happened before we got her (she was skittish around parked cars too...)


----------



## Sprocket

Oso said:


> Not to be the bearer of other news, but that pup at 6 months old and being 45lbs is more likely than not an American BullyX, MAYBE an AmstaffX. But thats really probably not an APBT. He is actually already the weight most full grown APBTs are. My boy is 9months old and about 50-55+lbs.
> He is gorgeous though! Love the chest ticking! Did you get him from a breeder? I wouldn't say he is going to be an overly huge dog, but the bone structure and size at 6months old tells me he is going to be a good sized pup!
> Just a little tidbit about the blue color and true APBTs, back in the old days blue APBTs were very few and far in between and when one was bred it wasnt the color "blue" we think of today. Just take this into consideration, blue APBTs were very hard to find back when APBTs where in their purebred hay day, and they werent being selected for so they were even farther in between occurrences, so the chances of a purebred APBT today coming out blue, are about slim to none.
> Most breeders of American Bullies CLAIM they have true game bred APBTs, when in fact they dont. I could pass my boy off as an APBT because of his body style, but he isnt, because again the chances of me getting a rescue APBT that happens to be blue is probably impossible. Not hating on your dog, but the dog other than the American Bully that pulls that blue color, is the Amstaff, but not the APBT.
> 
> You are very right though, a real APBT is anywhere from 40-60lbs, give or take. Some family lines throw slightly heavier or slightly lighter dogs.


A very reputable APBT breeder on another forum advised me to refer to him as an APBT for various reasons. I adopted him from a rescue based in SF. I know what his siblings look like and his mom but no idea who the sire was. 
I love his ticking. He has it everywere he has white, all over his face too 

FWIW- I never said he was an Am Bully. I usually call him a pitbull mix.


----------



## GoingPostal

Lol Amstaffs come from APBT, so obviously APBT carry the blue color, it's just recessive and wasn't bred for until recently, there were blue game dogs before there were Amstaffs at all. Blue is just dilute black, there isn't any difference in a blue dog of 1880 or a blue dog today. Color doesn't mean your dog is an American Bully, heck the breed barely exists, the standard is all over the place and hardly anyone is breeding to it anyways since they can be just about any size or shape imaginable. It's just an excuse to breed out of standard freaky looking mutts for big money and sell them to idiots. The vast majority of people breeding big blue bullies are still calling them APBT and unless they are mixed, they are, just poorly bred ones. If I bred a bunch of tiny Danes together to make "mini" Danes it doesn't change the fact they are purebred or make them a new breed, they are just crappy examples of theirs. I don't consider my blue rescue girl an American Bully and no Ambully people would consider her one either, heck I doubt whoever bred her had ever even heard of them and she's all of 45 pounds, she was produced for her color for sure, but that doesn't mean she's mixed with anything. Now a 45 pound dog at 6 months probably has something else going on in that background because that would be a huge APBT.


----------



## Oso

Sprocket said:


> A very reputable APBT breeder on another forum advised me to refer to him as an APBT for various reasons. I adopted him from a rescue based in SF. I know what his siblings look like and his mom but no idea who the sire was.
> I love his ticking. He has it everywere he has white, all over his face too
> 
> FWIW- I never said he was an Am Bully. I usually call him a pitbull mix.




I think pit bull mix is a fine thing to call him, but to me he appears more bully or Amstaff than APBT. But without a pedigree (and even then you have to have a trustworthy breeder) there is no way to know for sure.



GoingPostal said:


> Lol Amstaffs come from APBT, so obviously APBT carry the blue color, it's just recessive and wasn't bred for until recently, there were blue game dogs before there were Amstaffs at all. Blue is just dilute black, there isn't any difference in a blue dog of 1880 or a blue dog today. Color doesn't mean your dog is an American Bully, heck the breed barely exists, the standard is all over the place and hardly anyone is breeding to it anyways since they can be just about any size or shape imaginable. It's just an excuse to breed out of standard freaky looking mutts for big money and sell them to idiots. The vast majority of people breeding big blue bullies are still calling them APBT and unless they are mixed, they are, just poorly bred ones. If I bred a bunch of tiny Danes together to make "mini" Danes it doesn't change the fact they are purebred or make them a new breed, they are just crappy examples of theirs. I don't consider my blue rescue girl an American Bully and no Ambully people would consider her one either, heck I doubt whoever bred her had ever even heard of them and she's all of 45 pounds, she was produced for her color for sure, but that doesn't mean she's mixed with anything. Now a 45 pound dog at 6 months probably has something else going on in that background because that would be a huge APBT.


True APBTs did create the AST. There have been a couple blue game dogs, and blue is dilute black you are correct. BUT the way people are breeding blue to blue today its creating a different color than the blue of yester years is what I am getting at. You would never see a dog with the coloration of my dog back in the day of game dogs.
This is also true, American Bully is such a scatter bred random "breed" its hardly one at all. Thats why I was saying the dog could be AmBully or Amstaff mix. I have seen more blue Amstaffs than blue APBTs. I have only seen ONE true APBT that was blue, there are tons of blue Amstaffs and even more blue AmBullies.
Its just about what the breeders select for, most APBT breeders dont select for a blue coat, Amstaff people do which is where the Ambully got the signature blue coat from.
But the thing is, Ambullies arent crappy bred APBTs or crappy bred Amstaffs, they are a combination of the two breeds, if they can get together and agree on a standard it will become a legit breed, but you cant call an Ambully a crappy bred APBT or Amstaff because they are mixed. 

The problem with Ambully people is they dont agree on a set standard, my friend has two AmBully dogs, they are fine examples of the Classic style Ambully, but because she was asking people who bred pocket dogs or extreme dogs, they said her dogs were not Ambullies, it all depends on who you ask. 
I know my dogs mother was a very petite dog, probably right around your dogs size at 45lbs, and he is already 55+lbs at 9months old. So size can be all over with Ambully typed dogs because they arent a consistent breed because they havnt been around long enough to produce set dogs like say a Dobermann.
I wouldnt call your dog an Ambully for sure, without papers who knows. Could have been two black APBTs who bred and produced the dilute black, no one really knows. 
I am just saying for the size, color, and bone structure that pup looks to be Ambully or Amstaff and is not likely to be pure APBT. He is a lovely looking dog and will probably be a great pet, and I support his choice to call him a pit bull mix, because he is technically, just like mine is and yours are. They all probably go back to real APBTs if you could go back a few generations and see, but thats the sucky part about getting rescue dogs, you never really know what you got lol doesnt bother me any, my dog is awesome, I am sure yours are amazing as well, and his pup will grow up and be a great dog and the APBT in him somewhere will assure that, they are just awesome dogs, no matter the color.


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## lauren43

IMO I dont think ambullies or labradoodles for that matter will ever be a legit breed. But we are way off topic now...

So back to celebrating Lynsey's brothers choice of an American Bulldog.


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