# Convincing Hill's Lovers?



## Cliffdog (Dec 30, 2010)

What do you guys say when you're trying to convince someone that their dog food isn't the best?

Normally I really don't even bother unless it affects Bonnie, but this is about my sister's dogs. Laine and Opie, are almost my dogs as much as her and her husband's. Laine actually lived with me for more than a year, half of it, she didn't even live here. They moved without him, and took him back about six months after moving out (when their yard was *finally* dog-proofed). So for six months, he was essentially my dog. And Opie... well, Opie is just too much. He's such a great little puppy, impossible _not_ to fall in love with. He's a little wrecking ball.

As you can see, I do really have a strong emotional attachment to these dogs. I can't stand that Gen is feeding them Science Diet. She works for a vet, and the vet peddles Science Diet as a magical cure-all for every ailment. She trashes dog food brands like Ol' Roy and Alpo but she just won't listen to me when I say Science Diet is just as bad. She says that I should have Bonnie on Science Diet and that brands she's never heard of like Blue, Wellness, and Solid Gold are garbage because "Science Diet has all this money to put into the research of their foods. Do you think those brands can afford that? Stick to the big three- Science Diet, Eukanuba, and Pedigree, in that order." I have *no* idea what to say to that.

The thing is, I don't want to be confrontational/argumentative. She's the kind of person where, if you make an argument, she will _never_ back down from her side. It's a great trait to have when she's right... but not so great when she isn't.

Does anyone have any tips on what I can tell her? Honestly, I don't think I could make her read anything. If anyone has had experience dealing with folks like this, I could really use your expertise.


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## Cliffdog (Dec 30, 2010)

Oh, yeah, and this is in kibble because there is no way at all I could convince her to switch to raw. I mentioned that I want Bonnie on raw, and all I got was a condescending look and "I see a _lot_ of pit bulls come into the clinic with problems on raw."


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## cast71 (Sep 16, 2010)

Sometimes there's no changing someone, when there set in there ways. They have to learn from the own experiences. Since there her dogs, you really can't do anything. My vet was like that. She would blast whatever I was feeding, from premium kibble to raw. One day I went there and she was no longer pushing SD. She started recommended TOTW. She did say see witnessed alot of dogs with bad allergies doing good on it. That's what you have to do. When she see's how healthy and young looking your dog looks, maybe it will change her mind. Alot of vet says to feed science diet, iams, or purina because they have alot of money to do research. That's probably one of the lines they give them at there health seminars ahahahahaha All that money goes into making them more money. Finding more ways to deceive the public and get rid of more waste from human facilities. They need to be shut down:ban:


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## PUNKem733 (Jun 12, 2009)

Cliffdog said:


> Oh, yeah, and this is in kibble because there is no way at all I could convince her to switch to raw. I mentioned that I want Bonnie on raw, and all I got was a condescending look and "I see a _lot_ of pit bulls come into the clinic with problems on raw."


What clinic is this, so I know to keep my boy out of it. Either they are misdiagnosing things, or she is flat out lying.


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## Cliffdog (Dec 30, 2010)

I tried to tell her that (about the way they spend their money) and she didn't believe me. And yes they DO need to be shut down!


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## Cliffdog (Dec 30, 2010)

PUNKem733 said:


> What clinic is this, so I know to keep my boy out of it. Either they are misdiagnosing things, or she is flat out lying.


I don't think she's lying. I think she does see a lot of aggressive (I believe she was talking about temperament when she said "problems") pit bulls, whose crappy owners feed them raw in hopes that it will make them even *more* aggressive. My sister isn't one of those "pit bulls are evil" people, she knows (like I do) that it's the people that cause the dogs to be human aggressive. But somehow, she believes the stupid notion that raw meat = bloodlust.


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## cprcheetah (Jul 14, 2010)

My dad is a Vet has been one for 40+ years, and he was on the Science Diet Train FOREVER he felt like it was the best thing since sliced bread. Well he was getting sick of listening to Brady (the rep) bad mouth every other brand (Eukanuba/Royal Canin etc) so we switched to Eukanuba solely, then with research we decided to go with Royal Canin, well the more I have been learning I have been passing it on to him, and the biggest help was providing documents/proof that dogs are Carnivores and sharing that information with him, and asking why we were recommending a diet that was unfit for a Carnivore especially cats who are obligate carnivores? Why were we feeding/recommending foods that had corn in them? Also I kept POUNDING It into him that I refused to feed SD because I had several (5 or 6) YOUNG dogs die of fairly RARE forms of cancer when I was feeding it 15+ years ago....since I quit feeding SD I had only lost 1 dog to cancer in 15 years....and I have owned many dogs as I rescue quite a bit.

There is also a really good handout on Dogster Food & Nutrition about how to choose a good dog food & Ingredients etc, it is really basic and easy to understand and we actually have it printed out in booklet form and give to all of our clients, that handout really opened my dad's eyes as to the CRAP we were recommending. We no longer carry any diets as we haven't found a condition we can't find a better (than the prescription diets) more appropriate diet for, as well as we have a Petco literally across the street (well like 1-2 blocks down) from us.


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## PUNKem733 (Jun 12, 2009)

Cliffdog said:


> I don't think she's lying. I think she does see a lot of aggressive (I believe she was talking about temperament when she said "problems") pit bulls, whose crappy owners feed them raw in hopes that it will make them even *more* aggressive. My sister isn't one of those "pit bulls are evil" people, she knows (like I do) that it's the people that cause the dogs to be human aggressive. But somehow, she believes the stupid notion that raw meat = bloodlust.


Oh I see, in that case, it sounds pretty silly.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

I am a dog food rep and while we do carry MANY of the "premium" brands in the store, they do carry pedigree, science diet, beneful, purina, eukanuba, etc. It kills me inside each time I see a customer rolling their cart down an aisle with one of those in it. 

What about if you innocently asked her questions about the science diet? Like "hey sis, I know you rave about SD, maybe you could go over the ingredient list with me and tell me what you think about it." Sometimes it's as simple as them actually READING the ingredient list of what they are feeding and getting to, "corn....corn by product meal....chicken by product meal...." and then you could be like "oh man, no way, by product? that's absolute junk" and try to explain it in really descriptive terms so she gets the picture how GROSS it is.


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## Cliffdog (Dec 30, 2010)

cprcheetah said:


> There is also a really good handout on Dogster Food & Nutrition about how to choose a good dog food & Ingredients etc, it is really basic and easy to understand and we actually have it printed out in booklet form and give to all of our clients, that handout really opened my dad's eyes as to the CRAP we were recommending. We no longer carry any diets as we haven't found a condition we can't find a better (than the prescription diets) more appropriate diet for, as well as we have a Petco literally across the street (well like 1-2 blocks down) from us.


I'll look for that. I love Dogster, it's been a great help to me since I embarked on my dog food journey. 



meggels said:


> I am a dog food rep and while we do carry MANY of the "premium" brands in the store, they do carry pedigree, science diet, beneful, purina, eukanuba, etc. It kills me inside each time I see a customer rolling their cart down an aisle with one of those in it.
> 
> What about if you innocently asked her questions about the science diet? Like "hey sis, I know you rave about SD, maybe you could go over the ingredient list with me and tell me what you think about it." Sometimes it's as simple as them actually READING the ingredient list of what they are feeding and getting to, "corn....corn by product meal....chicken by product meal...." and then you could be like "oh man, no way, by product? that's absolute junk" and try to explain it in really descriptive terms so she gets the picture how GROSS it is.


BRILLIANT idea. I'd like to try this. And then next time I see her I'll show her the Dogster article Heather mentioned if I can find it.


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## SamWu1 (Oct 15, 2010)

It's almost like persuading a vegan that meat won't kill them, they're convinced without a shadow of a doubt that SD is God's gift to dogs.

If they're not open minded or at least willing to read the ingredient list, it's just not gonna happen. Some people are too lazy to take an hour out of their day to do some research and I don;t mean on SD's website.


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## JayJayisme (Aug 2, 2009)

Ah yes, the good old bloodlust argument. I love that one.

Here's my 20 pound, raw fed, blood thirsty dog. Terrifying, ain't he?

:biggrin:


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## cast71 (Sep 16, 2010)

What a savage little beast you got thereainkiller:


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## Cliffdog (Dec 30, 2010)

Wouldn't want to be a mail carrier in your neighborhood, she looks like a real monster :biggrin:


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## PUNKem733 (Jun 12, 2009)

I knew I saw that dog before! He was killing, and eating a little girl.


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## 3Musketeers (Nov 4, 2010)

Lol, sorry to get off topic, here be my *grass*-thirsty dog...
Old pic









P.S: She wasn't actually growling, got her in the middle of chewing.

I agree it's hard to convince people when they are blind believers in something. You can try printing out some articles and ingredient lists of the foods, not sure what else =/


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## kevin bradley (Aug 9, 2009)

The issue with Bonnie is this...

Someone feeding SD or Hills or Iams, or Old Roy, for that matter... has likely done ZERO, I mean, NONE, absolutely NOTHING to research the subject. 

Because it would take you about 2 minutes to type into Google..."best Dog Foods/Healthiest Dog Foods/What are the best foods for my Dog?" into a search and figure things out. Seriously, this is what I did 2 years ago.... and I'm not computer genius. 

Seriously, get Bonnie in front of a computer and have her just start snooping around. She needs to figure it out on her own. 

One good note... if Bonnie is willing to spend the money on Hills or Science Diet(aren't they the same garbage?)... then she's definitely financially able to get into some decent foods. 


or have her read this post. 

BONNIE,

Hear me NOW or believe me later. SCIENCE DIET IS GARBAGE TRASH. Its FILLED WITH INGREDIENTS that DOGS HAVE NO USE FOR. ITS ALSO DREADFULLY MISSING WHAT THEY DO NEED WHICH IS MEAT. YOU ARE DOING YOUR DOGS A DISSERVICE EVERY DAY YOU GIVE THEM CORN AND GRAINS THEY WOULD NEVER CHOOSE ON THEIR OWN.


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## cast71 (Sep 16, 2010)

Hey Kevin great post but Bonnie is the dog:laugh: Imagine Bonnie siiting in front of the geekbox typing away ahahahahaha


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## kevin bradley (Aug 9, 2009)

whoops. Sorry Cast. you made me laugh out loud on that one. 

I'm an idiot sometimes. :tongue:


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## cast71 (Sep 16, 2010)

I'm glad I got you laughing, because I was laughing when I read your post. Laughing is good for you ahahaahahahahahaha Thanks for you laughable post:smile:


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## PUNKem733 (Jun 12, 2009)

cast71 said:


> Hey Kevin great post but Bonnie is the dog:laugh: Imagine Bonnie siiting in front of the geekbox typing away ahahahahaha


ROFL!!! :biggrin1:


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## schtuffy (May 17, 2010)

JayJayisme said:


> Ah yes, the good old bloodlust argument. I love that one.
> 
> Here's my 20 pound, raw fed, blood thirsty dog. Terrifying, ain't he?
> 
> :biggrin:


It's been half a year and my mom still asks me if Louis will turn feral when she sees me feeding him raw. She is scared to death of dogs, yet she hugs and kisses Louis and lets him jump all over her. She doesn't stop marvelling at how cute he is and how she's not afraid of him. Guess either he's already turned feral and she doesn't know it yet, or she's cherishing the time before he turns into a bloodthirsty little beast  My bloodlusting little carnivore is the only dog in the world she isn't scared of...go figure!

Back to the OP's topic... I'm not a PETA fan, but there are those undercover videos online that sure shed light on the 'research' being done on dogs and dogfood. What if you take SD and a premium kibble of your choice, and just show her the difference in the first 5 ingredients? It definitely sounds like arguing or you coming off as 'educating' her won't work. Maybe you can just provide subtle suggestions here and there to get her thoughts going in the right direction. It sounds like she might need to figure it out on her own...but that doesn't mean there is no hope :smile:


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## candiceb (Jan 22, 2010)

Some people really are hard to convince, but slow and steady might win the race. Take my mom for example. A couple years ago she was feeding Science Diet (because her dogs' breeder, a vet, fed and recommended it). But, she was always complaining about how gassy they were and how dingy their coats looked. Over the course of the next couple years, I've managed to get her from that, to Diamond Naturals, to Taste of the Wild. I'm working on her to feed raw, but apparently handling raw meat is just "too gross". I think for her it was possible to get her to switch because she did have complaints about the SD, so perhaps she was a little more open to suggestion. 

I think the best you can do is probably just lead by example with your own dog, and let her see how healthy your dog is. And of course, as often as possible, drop subtle hints about quality ingredients and the importance of high quality meats. 

And of course some of those videos showing pets (or any animals really) being rendered might not hurt your case. :yuck:


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## lovmydog (Dec 10, 2010)

*Hills*

But what do you do when your vet tells you - that your dog needs to be on Purina EN prescription and YOU know it is worse than road kill. I took it personally that "how can you do this to ...ME? We suppose to be "friends"
I give you so much money  I am suppose to respect your advice...and yet I now believe she thought she really believes that it is good food. I think the reps truly do a good job of brainwashing. When I called Purina to try and find out what could justify why it is so expensive; the lady said she would have to get a rep to call me; as she didn't know. How could she not know; there is nobody in Purina that knows - only a rep? Very sad.


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