# Parvo vs. Early Socialization



## Itty bitty Kitty (Dec 26, 2011)

Okay, here are my basic questions:

*1. What precautions do you take when taking your puppy for a walk?

2. What precautions do you take when having people coming over to meet puppy?

3. Can you still have your puppy socialize with people and other dogs without worrying too much about parvo?

4. What house care/clean up do you do to help prevent parvo?

5. Is it better to have people see puppy in your home instead of bringing your puppy to other people's houses?

5. Can I still train my puppy to get used to/ enjoy car rides without risking parvo?
*

My situation and approach:

I want to protect my puppy from Parvo but I also want to give her early socialization as much as possible. I am, for sure, avoiding dog parks and pet stores until she is 4-5 months old. I know vaccinations can only do so much. 

I was advised to make sure puppy does not interact or rub noses with other dogs or children who approach them. I can handle avoiding contact with other dogs with their owners, but how would you approach children? Usually kids, being kids, don't think and just pet your dog and the parents may or may not care or be considerate. 

As for inviting people over to meet the pup, I'd want to request for them to wash their hands and maybe have a second pair of shoes they can come in with/ leave in the car. The only problem is, I don't know how seriously people will take parvo and not do what is requested. Especially if I ask them not to come inside with the same clothes they were wearing when they last visited place like petsmart.

Fortunately, I have relatives and friends that have other dogs that we can assign play dates with. However, I'm slightly concerned about my sister-in-law's dogs. They have a huge yard where they allow their dogs to do their business in and never clean it up. Basically it's a yard of poop and they let their dogs run and play around it. Although their dogs will be great play buddies, I don't feel comfortable with having my dog going to their house if their dogs always trample over feces. I'm hoping I can atleast request for them not to let the dogs out to the yard that day and bath them prior to meeting puppy. Would that be good enough? Unfortunately, having them come over to my place is something they won't be willing to do. Actually, I don't think any of the dog owners I know would want to bother coming over because it's inconvenient for them :/

Am I over thinking things?

P.S - I actually don't have Misster Dog yet. I will sometime in August - December though


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Honestly I think you're thinking about this a little too much. Parvo is a risk for puppies, there's no doubt in that. But I think the bigger risk is undersocialization. An undersocialized dog is more prone to behavioral problems, which are pretty much lifetime issues, not all of them being 100% resolvable. 

As long as you keep your pup current on vaccinations OR check current titers on them...I wouldn't worry about parvo contamination. 



Itty bitty Kitty said:


> *1. What precautions do you take when taking your puppy for a walk?*


*

I've honestly not given much thought to where we have taken our puppies for walks, just wherever we think will be a positive influence on them. Giving them the most APPROPRIATE opportunitites to be exposed to new things is ideal. 




2. What precautions do you take when having people coming over to meet puppy?

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I tell them to be polite and respectful to my puppy. I'm more worried about them being overbearing or detrimental to socializing my pups as some people have a hard time controlling themselves around cuteness overload puppies, than I am with them carrying disease with them. 

I load up new people and visitors up with plenty of yummy treats. 




3. Can you still have your puppy socialize with people and other dogs without worrying too much about parvo?

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Absolutely. Your puppy is exposed to parvo the moment it is born. Its literally everywhere in the environment so there's not a whole lot you can do from keeping them away from it 100% of the time and still end up with a well socialized and trained dog. 




4. What house care/clean up do you do to help prevent parvo?

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I keep my house clean, floors done once a week or so. Clean up dog mess on a regular basis outside (in the "social" parts of the yard as its hard to get every square inch of acreage). There's really nothing you can do to "prevent" parvo other than taking your shoes and any clothes off that are exposed to the ground BEFORE you come in the door from outside and wash them in hot water and bleach. Every time you come in from the outdoors you can potentially drag in parvo virus particles with you. They are very abundant and resistent in the environment. 




5. Is it better to have people see puppy in your home instead of bringing your puppy to other people's houses?

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Nope. You want to do plenty of both. You want to expose that puppy to anything and everything in the world as you possibly can...all before ~16 weeks of age. All kinds of people, old, young, different races, tattooed people, people in hats, people who use canes or wheelchairs, people with facial hair, people with glasses. All kinds of sounds, objects, types of flooring, etc. 

As far as socializing with other dogs...I wouldn't worry about them being unsanitary (unless they are literally covered in feces) but rather about them being GOOD, respectful dogs that are well versed in how to communicate with other dogs well. Most dogs don't fall into this category unfortunately. Most dogs are undersocialized, so the good ones are hard to come by. If you think a dog will be friendly, polite and respectful to your puppy then by all means SOCIALIZE! 




5. Can I still train my puppy to get used to/ enjoy car rides without risking parvo?

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There's probably parvo particles already in your car that you can't do anything about. THIS doesn't mean you avoid your car. This means you don't worry about the parvo virus particles and get on with your training routine, giving plenty of reinforcement as your puppy keeps their attention on you. 


END OF STORY: Keep your puppy up to date on puppy vaccines OR make sure they have titers showing immunity to parvo and thats the best thing you can do to prevent it. 

I recommend puppy shots at 8, 12, and 16 weeks approximately. Rabies no earlier than 6 months. One more booster on all of them a year after the first date and the dog is set for life.*


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## Itty bitty Kitty (Dec 26, 2011)

Thanks for your wisdom! That makes me feel better because I see early socialization as a big priority.

I admit I was aware but not as worried about parvo until my breeder told me horror stories from people she tried to warn. I usually like to worry and ask questions instead of not worry and don't ask questions. The more I know right? 

Ultimately I know experience will teach me more than solid research but atleast I can get a bit of a head start by talking to wonderful, experienced dog owners like yourself  ( and everyone else in this forum!)


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## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

I agree with every word Danemama told you. My vet told me to get Mol out and socialise her, especially because she is a breed that need socialisation in a big way very early on. So, she was at the dog park at 10 week of age, also walking the streets at that age too. To be honest, I did choose the dog park carefully, in an area where most people are vigilant about their dogs, their vaccinations and their health, when you go in you can tell by the type of people and the looks of their dogs if the area is safe to be around. 
She was also walked and taken everywhere, pet shops, fairs, friends places, out on the boats, in fact, every where I went, she went. I was always keeping an eye open for dogs that looked unhealthy or ill, but I think I can honestly say I never saw any. Socialisation and getting your pup use to everyday life is one of the most important things you can do. As long as you are sensible about it, then the chances of running into problems are very slim!

What type of dog are you getting?


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## Itty bitty Kitty (Dec 26, 2011)

I think early socialization is important too. I'm glad being ( reasonably) parvo aware won't interfere with it. I plan on taking puppy with me everywhere if able 

I'll be getting a German Sheperd 

Going off topic for a bit; out of curiosity, did you get Mollie before Windy? How did you introduce them to eachother?


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

Natalie covered VERY well the whole Vacine/Parvo thing....

As far as cats....we have always had cats...When we got the first dogs I remember we had cat(s) already...we have always had cats before a puppy comes.

My husband and I had cats before we got Brody(the first of our current 5 dogs,) but we got Ducki about 9 months after Brody...how ever they are from the same home, so were familure with dogs/cats that act the same way, Pidgin came into our lives this past August when we already had Brody, Rhett and Leo, we then got Dixi and Keeva after here....but everyone gets along fine(although Pidg isnt all that happy about dogs they leave her alone.) My Mum's kitty was around 3 when we got Hubbers(my Dad's Frenchie) and was 6(this past August) when we got Jazzmyn(my Mum's Frenchie.)



I personally HIGHLY suggest getting a cat NOW, especially since you are getting a breed with a higher prey drive then some....that way the cat claims the house as his/her own and will teach the pup a few rules. (Although if at all possible the cat should be use to dogs coming into his/her home.)

Just something I personally go by.....my cats NEVER get punished(spritzed with spray bottle, etc) when disciplining the dog(s)! That way the dogs NEVER think that Im going to back them up when/if they get the thought to go after the cat!:wink: (but that is just me!)


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## Itty bitty Kitty (Dec 26, 2011)

Thank you for the input  Ideally, I would love to get kitty before puppy or around the same time and if I could, I certainly would! Unfortunately I don't think my husband and I can afford to have both kitty and puppy at the same time ( atleast to start with). At the moment it's going to be one or the other, so I'm choosing puppy. Realistically I'm unsure when we' be able to get kitty but we definitely want to add kitty to the family at some point. Thankfully, we have a co-worker who has a cat so I'll be asking if I can have puppy socialize with the cat. 



Scarlett_O' said:


> Natalie covered VERY well the whole Vacine/Parvo thing....
> 
> As far as cats....we have always had cats...When we got the first dogs I remember we had cat(s) already...we have always had cats before a puppy comes.
> 
> ...


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

Itty bitty Kitty said:


> Thank you for the input  Ideally, I would love to get kitty before puppy or around the same time and if I could, I certainly would! Unfortunately I don't think my husband and I can afford to have both kitty and puppy at the same time ( atleast to start with). At the moment it's going to be one or the other, so I'm choosing puppy. Realistically I'm unsure when we' be able to get kitty but we definitely want to add kitty to the family at some point. Thankfully, we have a co-worker who has a cat so I'll be asking if I can have puppy socialize with the cat.


Even think about going the route of a recuse adult or older kitten who has been socialized properly with cats!!:thumb:


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## DDBsR4Me (Jan 23, 2012)

I think DaneMama pretty much covered it. 

The precautions you're talking about are ones I would take for a puppy that has never been vaccinated for parvo at all.


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## brandypup (Jan 23, 2012)

everyone naild what I feel. 

When I get a puppy it will be an English Mastiff (from a repitauble breeder, already researching and contacting and learning) I have researched vaccines for the last 10 years. I love Dr schultz ect. I will probably get pup around the 8 week mark. I will start vaccinations around 9/10 weeks for core vaccines. (distemper/parvo) (many mastiff breeders are on board with the new vaccination protocals and many are also raw fed) 

1. What precautions do you take when taking your puppy for a walk?
I use a leash
2. What precautions do you take when having people coming over to meet puppy?
I give them treats and ask to reinforce sit for pets

3. Can you still have your puppy socialize with people and other dogs without worrying too much about parvo?
yes

4. What house care/clean up do you do to help prevent parvo?
I am not a breeder less worries. I will not take a puppy to the vet before 8 weeks old unless medically neccasary. 

5. Is it better to have people see puppy in your home instead of bringing your puppy to other people's houses?
Both

5. Can I still train my puppy to get used to/ enjoy car rides without risking parvo?
Yes

Studies are showing the mom dog immunity to the puppy is lasting to 8-10 weeeks old. If you vaccinate a puppy too young the natural antibiodies will attack that vaccine and render it usless. So starting the vaccinations later will help keep puppy better immunized. Studies are also showing that you can have liflong immunidty from the very first puppy shot. If my finds are good (and they better be adding a mastiff lol) I will vaccinate at 10 weeks and then titer in 3/4 weeks. If low I will vacciante again and titer in 3/4 weeks. Rabies aroudn 20 weeks i think it is. 

The risk of having an un or under socialized dog far outweight the risks of parvo for me. Many puppy kinderschools allow pups after first vaccination now due to this.

Puppy Vaccinations vs Socialization

Early puppy socialization classes: Weighing the risks vs. benefits - Veterinary Medicine


Critter Advocacy


As for as having a cat as well. I introduced my last dog Brandy as an adult dog with serious prey drive into a house with a cat. We lived in harmony 1 becuase let the cat hit her when needed and 2 becuase Brandy had good basic commands and I tought her No Kitty. I then added foster cats with great success and even kittens that Brandy loved to bathe and care for. We even had foster sqirrles at one point which she did very well with supervised of course. I had gerbils as well I let her sniff in a controled enviorment. I would never trust her with teh rodents but she did well in controled settings.


DOgs naturaly magazine has a lot of great vaccine articles as well
http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/parvovirus-2/


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