# Considering raw but vet said...



## ciaBrysh (Dec 16, 2011)

Hey all I'm new here  

I'm considering starting a raw diet for my two dogs, however I discussed this choice with my vet the other day and they told me that by switching my dogs to raw it will ultimately cut their life span by 7 years (or something like that) since wolves only lived until they were about 7 in the wild.
Now, I'm smart enough to know that there are a crap load of other things a wolf could die from rather their diet LOL but now my boyfriend is a bit nervous about going raw because he doesn't want our dogs lifespan to be cut down.

My question is if anyone on here could give me some links to reference debating that theory and also how long have YOU fed raw and how old are your dogs? I think if my boyfriend realizes that the vet is not a nutrition expert he will be okay with going raw

Thanks again!


----------



## minnieme (Jul 6, 2011)

That is bullsh*t. Find a new vet. Scaring you into thinking a certain way is crappy to say the least -- regardless of what it's about. Read Dedicated to proper carnivore nutrition - Prey Model Raw Feeding for Dogs & Cats and tell me the dogs under "Successes" aren't thriving and living to a ripe old age (more than their kibble-fed counterparts).


----------



## ciaBrysh (Dec 16, 2011)

I actually just read the success stories and I even bookmarked it to show him later thank you!


----------



## cprcheetah (Jul 14, 2010)

That's interesting, both the vets whom I've talked to about Raw say that it lengthens their life. I know my chihuahua is 6 years old and is HEALTHIER in the past 18 months (that I've been feeding raw) than she has been her entire life put together. She is off of 6 of her long term medications, and isn't sick hardly at all. she is seizure free as well.

Here are a BUNCH of dogs who are on raw who are in the 'double' digit club Home
Here is a blog post I wrote:
have often wondered about that. I know I am on several yahoo groups that are about Raw Feeding, Natural Care etc, and have come across many dogs who are 13 or 15 who do not look nor act their age. Most are raw fed from birth or shortly thereafter, limited or no vaccines, no chemicals (flea/hw etc). This link was shared on one of the groups I am on and I am excited to share it with you, as it PROVES that dogs fed a Natural Appropriate Diet live longer....

Clicky for Lippert-Sapy Study on Canine Longevity 
Click on the link then it is the 3rd section down, click on it to read the study 
"Lippert-Sapy Study on Canine Longevity: The findings of this study present convincing evidence of the importance of an appropriate natural diet on health and longevity. Statistical analysis of data from the study showed that animals eating a more species appropriate diet lived almost 3-years longer than pets eating commercial pet food products."


----------



## monkeys23 (Dec 8, 2010)

My one dog was barely 4 when I transitioned her last Jan, which is "that" long to have been on commercial food.... she went through the most DISGUSTING detox during transition. That in itself cemented everything I've learned about prey model raw being biologically appropriate. She's got better muscle, coat, the works.


----------



## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

Vets are going to tell you that sort of thing because of course they want you to keep coming back to them for their commercial crap filled kibble and all the problems that come with it. The life span of a dog on raw instead of kibble is as long or even longer, and definantly much healthier. Which in turn is way less vet visits. Not to mention, 9 out of 10 vets really don't know much about canine nutrition due to lack of education in vet school.


----------



## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

When I got my female and had her on kibble I probably spent a good $5,000. at the vet trying t figure out her digestive issues, once I switched her to a raw diet I don't see my vet at all except for her yearly exam and her 3 yr. rabies shot. He knows I feed a raw diet but we don't discuss it.. He can't deny the fact he doesn't see us anymore and I love my vet, but they don't know Crap about dog nutrition...


----------



## ciaBrysh (Dec 16, 2011)

naturalfeddogs said:


> Vets are going to tell you that sort of thing because of course they want you to keep coming back to them for their commercial crap filled kibble and all the problems that come with it. The life span of a dog on raw instead of kibble is as long or even longer, and definantly much healthier. Which in turn is way less vet visits. Not to mention, 9 out of 10 vets really don't know much about canine nutrition due to lack of education in vet school.


That's what I figured. I tried to explain to him that vets also get paid by Hills and Iams to promote their sort of food. I remember when I changed from Science Diet to Natures Variety Instinct the vet told us "All that grain free talk is just that...talk. It's all just propaganda"

Thanks alot for sharing your stories guys =) I'll let you know how it goes!


----------



## Unosmom (May 3, 2009)

I have to find this article when I get home. Basically its a vet bashing raw diet and saying that wolves dont live as long in the wild and they have longer lifespans in captivity due to eating kibble. Then in reply another vet asks him to show findinging on wolves eating kibble vs raw in captivity and effect it has on their health and lifespan, because there was no actual studies that the original author has listed.


----------



## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Your vet is an idiot.

From what I have read, dogs really don't live any longer or shorter lives on raw. BUT, they do not spend their last years with chronic problems - heart disease, arthritis, etc. They are healthy, and then they die.

I'm sure some live shorter, some live longer. But to say that their lifespan is cut to 7 years is a load of crap.

I only have one example, but here it is - my dachshund. I got her when she was 12, after a lifetime of dry food and no dental care. She has mitral valve disease and spinal arthritis. Before raw, she was at the ER or vet literally 3-6 times a month. Constant problems, constant illness, she felt awful most of the time. mostly digestive, but also alot of arthritic pain and no stamina.

After raw - she still has heart disease. She still has spinal arthritis. But she FEELS WONDERFUL. Runs everywhere. That little happy face looking up at me every morning is a testament to raw food. The only non-food change we have made is that she gets a laser therapy treatment once a week for her back. No drugs - none at all! It's a miracle.

Now, would she live longer on dry food? hell no. Will she live longer on raw? Maybe not. But I know for sure her quality of life is a million percent better now.

I hate it when vets scare people off of raw. It makes me very angry. Just because someone is in some position of authority and gets a kickback for selling crap food doesn't mean they should have carte blance to spout ignorance.


----------



## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

ciaBrysh said:


> That's what I figured. I tried to explain to him that vets also get paid by Hills and Iams to promote their sort of food. I remember when I changed from Science Diet to Natures Variety Instinct the vet told us "All that grain free talk is just that...talk. It's all just propaganda"
> 
> Thanks alot for sharing your stories guys =) I'll let you know how it goes!


Yes, and the ER vet trying to push Science Diet on me told me corn is good for dogs. He is, in fact, the reason I found raw food. I couldn't rebut him because my dog was so sick I was obviously not doing the right thing, either. Unfortunately, since we went on raw food we've not been back to the ER to say I TOLD YOU SO!


----------



## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

Yeah, be strong. Listen, but don't let them change your mind. I should tell you about Mollie, so you know that I understand where you are coming from. She's been on raw, probably round 2 years now. I had to take her in as she had cracked a tooth. My vets HATE raw I should add. They said she had the most perfect teeth, no problems whatsoever other than the cracked tooth and asked what was my dog's oral healthcare as I obviously must brush her teeth everyday for them to be so clean. But then they got shag nasty when I stuttered that she was on a raw diet. So, they sent me out of there with a sample of some Science Diet formula with huge kibbles that they recommended I feed her instead.
I have to admit, and I'm not one to elabourate or blow things out of proportion, but every single day someone says to me that Mol's coat is absolutely gorgeous. I don't notice it at all, just think its normal for her now, but it makes my heart good that something I'm doing seems to be working. Her blood tests came back fine this year, I'll get getting another done in January to make sure everything is fine, but I would probably do that if she was on kibble as well.
So, stick to your guns, don't let the vet's put you off one tiny bit. Either argue with them, or if you a wimp like me, just nod, look at the floor, think "whatever", and do what you feel is right for you and your pup. 
My other half definitely did not agree with what I feed Mollie either, he was almost embarrassed. But, over the years he has listened to the comments I get about how good she looks and now, will even offer the 'we feed her raw meat' information to people that ask. I do like him sometimes!


----------



## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

MollyWoppy said:


> Either argue with them, or if you a pussy like me, just nod, look at the floor, think "whatever", and do what you feel is right for you and your pup.


Me too. I kick myself for how I couldn't stand up to some snot-face kid fresh out of vet school, spouting off what I knew was a load of baloney.


----------



## RCTRIPLEFRESH5 (Feb 11, 2010)

let's see a study of kibble fed wolves in the wild rofl!


Unosmom said:


> I have to find this article when I get home. Basically its a vet bashing raw diet and saying that wolves dont live as long in the wild and they have longer lifespans in captivity due to eating kibble. Then in reply another vet asks him to show findinging on wolves eating kibble vs raw in captivity and effect it has on their health and lifespan, because there was no actual studies that the original author has listed.


----------



## tem_sat (Jun 20, 2010)

I will give you the most basic of examples:

Dog A: Identical genetics to Dog B and kibble fed with no dental care his entire life.

Dog B: Identical genetics to Dog A and PMR fed with no dental care his entire life.

Care to guess which one would live longer? I don't need a peer reviewed double blind test to convince me.


----------



## ciaBrysh (Dec 16, 2011)

MollyWoppy said:


> Yeah, be strong. Listen, but don't let them change your mind. I should tell you about Mollie, so you know that I understand where you are coming from. She's been on raw, probably round 2 years now. I had to take her in as she had cracked a tooth. My vets HATE raw I should add. They said she had the most perfect teeth, no problems whatsoever other than the cracked tooth and asked what was my dog's oral healthcare as I obviously must brush her teeth everyday for them to be so clean. But then they got shag nasty when I stuttered that she was on a raw diet. So, they sent me out of there with a sample of some Science Diet formula with huge kibbles that they recommended I feed her instead.
> I have to admit, and I'm not one to elabourate or blow things out of proportion, but every single day someone says to me that Mol's coat is absolutely gorgeous. I don't notice it at all, just think its normal for her now, but it makes my heart good that something I'm doing seems to be working. Her blood tests came back fine this year, I'll get getting another done in January to make sure everything is fine, but I would probably do that if she was on kibble as well.
> So, stick to your guns, don't let the vet's put you off one tiny bit. Either argue with them, or if you a wimp like me, just nod, look at the floor, think "whatever", and do what you feel is right for you and your pup.
> My other half definitely did not agree with what I feed Mollie either, he was almost embarrassed. But, over the years he has listened to the comments I get about how good she looks and now, will even offer the 'we feed her raw meat' information to people that ask. I do like him sometimes!


Thank you for the story!
Is that Molly in the signature picture? Shes beautiful!


----------



## shellbell (Sep 24, 2011)

Hmm, that is a new one...the part about dogs on raw living only seven years...


----------



## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

ciaBrysh said:


> Thank you for the story!
> Is that Molly in the signature picture? Shes beautiful!


Yep, that's my Mollie the moron. And, I may add, this is the first time anyone has ever called her beautiful! Thank you for that, I will make sure I tell her. Well, on second thought's, maybe I won't, don't want her getting a big head!


----------



## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

HAHAHA, Oh the things that vets(and others) will say to brainwash people into doom nuggets!!!uke:

Needless to say, I cant see as how putting non-species appropriate things into an animal, including toxins and other chemicals(which are in most foods that a vet is going to suggest) could make them live longer!!!LOL :rofl:


----------



## luvMyBRT (Mar 8, 2010)

Let me say this:

1.Most of the people here on this forum know more about canine nutrition than most vets. If my dogs having a food issue I come here first. If I have a question about raw diet I ask here first.

2. If the transition is done correctly and slowly most people don't run into any problems. Once you switch to raw you won't look back. I switched to a PMR raw diet for my 12 year old GSH Pointer over a year ago and couldn't be happier.

3. You dog will love you for it!!!


----------



## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

Find a new vet. Period. 

What amazes me is that people can actually believe that kibble is better for a dog. Look at it this way: In one hand you have processed nuggets with things even we wouldn't dare to eat that don't resemble any of the original ingredients and in the other hand you have a natural food source that humans haven't tampered with in a processing plant (other than a butcher, obviously) that an animal would have access to without human help... Using nothing but common sense, which one would you think is healthier?


----------



## Quossum (Jul 6, 2011)

It's anecdotal, obviously, but...

The average life expectancy of a Borzoi: 10-12 years. My Borzoi, raw fed since puppyhood: 12 1/2 now, and still going strong. 

So, no worries as far as raw "causing" a shorter life expectancy! 

--Q


----------



## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Dude and Bucks Mamma said:


> Find a new vet. Period.
> 
> What amazes me is that people can actually believe that kibble is better for a dog. Look at it this way: In one hand you have processed nuggets with things even we wouldn't dare to eat that don't resemble any of the original ingredients and in the other hand you have a natural food source that humans haven't tampered with in a processing plant (other than a butcher, obviously) that an animal would have access to without human help... Using nothing but common sense, which one would you think is healthier?


Because we are too stupid to know what to feed them.

As the ER vet said me when I said I thought I would try to home cook - _you better talk to a nutritionist first or you will end up making them alot worse. Better to stick with food that has everything they need in it_ i.e. science diet.


----------



## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Quossum said:


> It's anecdotal, obviously, but...
> 
> The average life expectancy of a Borzoi: 10-12 years. My Borzoi, raw fed since puppyhood: 12 1/2 now, and still going strong.
> 
> ...


I think a bunch of anecdotes make a trend and there are lots of anecdotes here. Yours is another one to add to the list that should be proving to people this raw feeding stuff isn't some crackpot idea.

Twelve years?? You are way ahead of just about everyone here. I am impressed. I bet you have alot of knowledge to share.


----------



## RCTRIPLEFRESH5 (Feb 11, 2010)

dang 10-12 years is pretty long for a big dog. pyrs have a pretty long life also  .


Quossum said:


> It's anecdotal, obviously, but...
> 
> The average life expectancy of a Borzoi: 10-12 years. My Borzoi, raw fed since puppyhood: 12 1/2 now, and still going strong.
> 
> ...


----------



## ciaBrysh (Dec 16, 2011)

Scarlett_O' said:


> HAHAHA, Oh the things that vets(and others) will say to brainwash people into doom nuggets!!!uke:
> 
> Needless to say, I cant see as how putting non-species appropriate things into an animal, including toxins and other chemicals(which are in most foods that a vet is going to suggest) could make them live longer!!!LOL :rofl:


\

I like doom nuggets, I think I am going to use that from now on!


----------



## ciaBrysh (Dec 16, 2011)

Dude and Bucks Mamma said:


> Find a new vet. Period.
> 
> What amazes me is that people can actually believe that kibble is better for a dog. Look at it this way: In one hand you have processed nuggets with things even we wouldn't dare to eat that don't resemble any of the original ingredients and in the other hand you have a natural food source that humans haven't tampered with in a processing plant (other than a butcher, obviously) that an animal would have access to without human help... *Using nothing but common sense, which one would you think is healthier*?


Yeah I know what you mean lol but as the saying goes...common sense is not so common unfortunately :frown:




shellbell said:


> Hmm, that is a new one...the part about dogs on raw living only seven years...


I believe what they meant was that since wolves in the wild only lived to about 7 years old, that had to have been because of their diet. 
My personal theory on the matter is that wolves didn't die that young because of their diet they died that young because of...oh I don't know...the environment. Animals killing each other is pretty common right? (I'm by no means any expert on wolves though) Also weather and lack of food could be a reason. They also didn't have direct control over what they ate. When raw feeding a domesticated dog or cat even we control what our pet eats! We make sure they are getting their protein organs muscle meat etc
That's how I feel anyway, if that makes sense. I think it's just a lot for my boyfriend to grasp on. I'm going to have him research this site a bit more but I think he will see things my way, he usually does :wink:


----------



## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

Yea. I meant to say something about the wolves as well but I forgot! Hahaha. There are endless reasons why wild wolves live shorter lives. Another one is that those who DO get old don't have people to watch over them and make sure every little medical issue is addressed. You covered just about everything else! Hahaha. 

Quossum... I think we need a picture of your old man as "proof" (or old lady since you didn't specify!) I LOVE Borzois and I think a picture would help "the boyfriend" as well to prove that a raw fed dog can live to see his senior years


----------



## ciaBrysh (Dec 16, 2011)

Dude and Bucks Mamma said:


> Yea. I meant to say something about the wolves as well but I forgot! Hahaha. There are endless reasons why wild wolves live shorter lives. Another one is that those who DO get old don't have people to watch over them and make sure every little medical issue is addressed. You covered just about everything else! Hahaha.


hah yeah duh...the most obvious one WOULD be vet care LOL


----------



## barneysmom2510 (Oct 12, 2011)

I hate the way vets use scare tactics with the raw diet. I have seen some dramatic changes for the btter in my dogs. I am lucky that my vet is totally into feeding your dog raw but I know if I had to see the local vet in town I would get a very hard time about feeding raw. I see the changes with my own eyes and my 10 year old dogs seem like they have gotten younger. I have seen them jumping around playing and that is a great thing because usually this time of year in the ciold sadie's arthritus is acting up but she has been able to get up and down my three front steps without me helping her get in. These things make me so thankful for this diet because my dogs are a huge part of me and my family. When I pull out the cutting board and my dogs go crazy with excitement I feel good they love their food they certainly never got excited when kibble was going in the bowl.


----------



## JayJayisme (Aug 2, 2009)

ciaBrysh said:


> ...the vet told us "All that grain free talk is just that...talk. It's all just propaganda"


Whenever someone says this to me, I can't help but ask, "Propaganda by whom?"

As far as I know, aside from a few authors, nobody who promotes the "dogs are carnivores" and "PMR/RMB" diet stands to gain anything commercially or monetarily from it. So who on earth would disseminate such propaganda? 

Of course, nobody has ever been able to answer this question when I've posed it. 

Idiots.


----------



## Quossum (Jul 6, 2011)

Dude and Bucks Mamma said:


> Quossum... I think we need a picture of your old man as "proof" (or old lady since you didn't specify!) I LOVE Borzois and I think a picture would help "the boyfriend" as well to prove that a raw fed dog can live to see his senior years


Here ya' go:










This is our Christmas picture from this year, taken early in December. Flame looks pretty good for an old lady, doesn't she?

It was over two years ago that I switched vets (nothing to do with raw feeding). When I visited the new vet for the first time, he couldn't believe Flame's age, ten at the time. "This dog is ten?" he kept saying. "She's *ten*? You sure?" He was seriously blown away by how healthy she was. He's not a huge raw-supporter, but he doesn't give me a hard time. The results speak for themselves.

Now she is showing her age a bit more, but she's still doing well. Can't really manage the bones these days, so eats ground food and Honest Kitchen. 

(Sorry for taking so long to come back to the thread. Holiday madness!)

--Q


----------



## nupe (Apr 26, 2011)

MollyWoppy said:


> Yeah, be strong. Listen, but don't let them change your mind. I should tell you about Mollie, so you know that I understand where you are coming from. She's been on raw, probably round 2 years now. I had to take her in as she had cracked a tooth. My vets HATE raw I should add. They said she had the most perfect teeth, no problems whatsoever other than the cracked tooth and asked what was my dog's oral healthcare as I obviously must brush her teeth everyday for them to be so clean. But then they got shag nasty when I stuttered that she was on a raw diet. So, they sent me out of there with a sample of some Science Diet formula with huge kibbles that they recommended I feed her instead.
> I have to admit, and I'm not one to elabourate or blow things out of proportion, but every single day someone says to me that Mol's coat is absolutely gorgeous. I don't notice it at all, just think its normal for her now, but it makes my heart good that something I'm doing seems to be working. Her blood tests came back fine this year, I'll get getting another done in January to make sure everything is fine, but I would probably do that if she was on kibble as well.
> So, stick to your guns, don't let the vet's put you off one tiny bit. Either argue with them, or if you a wimp like me, just nod, look at the floor, think "whatever", and do what you feel is right for you and your pup.
> My other half definitely did not agree with what I feed Mollie either, he was almost embarrassed. But, over the years he has listened to the comments I get about how good she looks and now, will even offer the 'we feed her raw meat' information to people that ask. I do like him sometimes!



Nice post :thumb:


----------



## sandra0606 (Dec 22, 2011)

Dogs actually like raw food and it is quite healthy for them. It doesn't cut their lifespan or harm them in any way. And when you are feeding your dog raw meat make sure to include raw bones.They love marrow too. Check Veterinary Q & A - Bones And Raw Food or Biologically Appropriate Raw Foods: The BARF Diet, BARF for Beginners - Most Frequently Asked Questions, Wheat Free Dog Treats | Healthy Dog Treats | Dog Treats by Boulder Dog Food Company.


----------



## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

Quossum said:


> Here ya' go:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Since starting raw, I have ad the same thing happen to me with Dude. I have not had one person guess over four years old and he just turned eight. People don't believe me when I say that he is eight. I had one woman insist that I was lying to her. Before raw I never had that happen. Even at seven years old it didn't happen. He is in great shape and is so much healthier than he used to be and he was never sick a day in his life on Pedigree. I think people lose sight of what is important. It doesn't matter if kibble keeps them healthy enough. It matters if they are at their healthiest or not.


----------



## Halliebrooks (Dec 8, 2011)

Myths About Raw: An Honest, Candid Conclusion


----------



## sozzle (May 18, 2011)

Well I don't think anyone who feeds raw should feel in any way ashamed or cowed 'by what the vet says', it's your dog and you do what is best for it. You are paying for a service from the vet just like the doctor. For instance, my doctor knows I don't want to have radiation put into my breasts every two years so I opt for Thermograms, he is understanding of my choice and says it's my choice what I do, I can take his advice and do with it what I want, just like the vet. Remember they are not some kind of 'god' don't feel humiliated by what they say, just take it as a piece of advice and decide yourself what you want to do. Now personally I haven't yet been asked and I haven't volunteered the info about raw feeding to my vet, but so far they are very understanding of most things and quite open minded, of course they might not be when it comes to raw feeding but I am prepared for it. I will have had Stanley for a year at the end of Feb and I am going to get him a check up and see what they say and I AM going to tell them I raw feed. I don't care if they recommend some amazing kibble because I am going to tell them that as far as I can see that is not a species appropriate food for my dog and I am not interested. People soon shut their trap when they know you are sincere and mean what you say.
We really shouldn't go around 'worrying about what other people think about what we bloody well feed our dogs', do we do that with our children? I certainly don't and I'm too old to be bullied in any way or form and now at the grand age of of of (well I'm nearer 50 than 40 let's say) that I can stand up for myself and my dog. His coat is amazing, teeth average at the front (greyhounds are notorious for not having good teeth), he's lean and much improved from when he was kibble fed. I think the raw feeding thing will always be evolving as we try out new things and foods and many of us have gone through the kibble, premade raw, BARF and now PMR to know what works best for our dogs and for our budgets. I know I am doing a good thing for my dog just like I don't allow my kids to drink fizzy drinks and eat junk as part of their every day diet (they are allowed these things on occasion like Christmas). This is a great place to ask questions from other more seasoned raw feeders and I certainly hope to carry on regardless.
Cheers from a very hot New Zealand!


----------

