# Opinions on high protein, good quality kibble



## sparks72 (Oct 31, 2012)

I'm so glad I came upon this site..I'm new & this is my first post! 

I've read conflicting information about high protein kibble being "bad" for dogs with existing kidney problems, and even some articles where they said it could take a toll on the kidneys even if the dog didn't have an exisiting kidney problem. Problem is, is I read that dogs normally do NOT show signs of kidney problems until their kidneys are only functioning at approx 30%. That being said, what do you guys think about high protein, good quality kibble and dog's kidneys? I'm so in between on what to do! Ultimately, I do believe that high protein (being of a good quality - meat based kibble as long as water is added in or the dog drinks a significant amount of water) is best for a dog, but then there's always that other side of me that clings onto the other argument with the kidney issue, and that higher protein isn't always better. I've been researching dog food for A WHILE now, and I just don't know anymore! I'm so overwhelmed!

I just bought a bag of Nature's Variety Instinct Raw Boost - which is high protein 37% & 20% fat. I think to even it out and ease my mind, I may buy Fromm the Pork and Applesaucse forumla to rotate (24% protein, 14% fat) since my dog did SO well on it. BUT, is it ok to rotate grain free food and food that has grains in it?? 

Any imput/advice would be appreciated


----------



## SaharaNight Boxers (Jun 28, 2011)

In short, I don't buy the whole no high protein kibble. Even dogs eith kidney problems dont necessarily need low protein. I personally want as much meat as possible. I don't want thing that just boost protein though. 

I personally would just feed the NV. You could just rotate in between the raw boost formulas. I believe there are a few. I'm personally not super impressed with Fromm ingredient wise. I have heard of dogs doing fantastic on it though.


----------



## sparks72 (Oct 31, 2012)

Is it ok to rotate between grain free and foods that have grain? Im not too impressed with Fromms ingrediant list either..but my dog did really well on it..it was a formula that grains in it as well. I really want to include one of Merrick's new grain free formulas in his rotation..I'm in love with the ingrediant lists..but..too many QC issues with that company that would make me uncomfortable. I've also read that NV has a high ash content..which makes me a little uneasy. 

I really would love to feed a good canned food with no kibble at all..but, it's hard to find one I love that does not include carrageenan.


----------



## Georgiapeach (Jan 24, 2011)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't raw less than 20% protein, given its moisture content? This is less than the high protein kibbles, if so. My boxer, Dempsey, doesn't do well on a high protein kibble (35+%) - it makes his poos loose. He does better on one that's around 25%.


----------



## sparks72 (Oct 31, 2012)

Georgiapeach said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't raw less than 20% protein, given its moisture content? This is less than the high protein kibbles, if so. My boxer, Dempsey, doesn't do well on a high protein kibble (35+%) - it makes his poos loose. He does better on one that's around 25%.


I'm honestly not sure about the raw protein percentage..I would assume its more then 20% though..but I could be wrong. I'm feeding NV instinct raw boost...which isn't raw..it just has pieces of freeze dried raw, along with a sprayed "raw" coating. It's really just a kibble.


----------



## SaharaNight Boxers (Jun 28, 2011)

Georgiapeach said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't raw less than 20% protein, given its moisture content? This is less than the high protein kibbles, if so. My boxer, Dempsey, doesn't do well on a high protein kibble (35+%) - it makes his poos loose. He does better on one that's around 25%.


On dry matter basis, same as kibble, it's way higher than that. 


I personally wouldn't rotate grain free and grain inclusive. I think it's a difference to the system to have to switch between grain and grain free.


----------



## sparks72 (Oct 31, 2012)

I personally wouldn't rotate grain free and grain inclusive. I think it's a difference to the system to have to switch between grain and grain free.[/QUOTE]

That what I was worried about. Well this is my first go on a high protein grain free kibble, so we'll see how it goes. So far so good, but it's only been a day. He has been drinking more water then he normally drinks though. 

I've also read that people have gotten blood work done after switching to a high protein kibble and liver values and kidney values were high..which also worries me about high protein kibble. Maybe I'm just a worry wart :/


----------



## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

I would suggest soaking(either in water or homemade broth) the kibble to help with hydration! :thumb:

If I HAD to feed a kibble that would actually be one that I would consider(and believe me there are NOT many that I would choose! :wink

(Oh and BTW, WELCOME!!! :biggrin: This is MysticsAbi from HGS!!:wave


----------



## meggels (May 30, 2010)

SaharaNight Boxers said:


> On dry matter basis, same as kibble, it's way higher than that.
> 
> 
> I personally wouldn't rotate grain free and grain inclusive. I think it's a difference to the system to have to switch between grain and grain free.


I rotate Abbie between grain free and grain inclusive. No issues at all. She's got a pretty strong tummy though.


----------



## sparks72 (Oct 31, 2012)

Scarlett_O' said:


> I would suggest soaking(either in water or homemade broth) the kibble to help with hydration! :thumb:
> 
> If I HAD to feed a kibble that would actually be one that I would consider(and believe me there are NOT many that I would choose! :wink
> 
> (Oh and BTW, WELCOME!!! :biggrin: This is MysticsAbi from HGS!!:wave


Thanks!  I look forward to interacting with everyone here! 

What other grain free kibbles would you suggest? I'm not a fan of white potato...so that elimates A LOT of grain free kibbles  I was looking into nutrisca as well..pretty decent formula. I really wish Merrick had their QC issues under control...I LOVE their new grain free formulas, but I just won't risk it.

I've been adding water to kibble ever since I can remember  Sparks gets 1/4 c kibble two times a day along with 1/4 water each time mixed in.


----------



## sparks72 (Oct 31, 2012)

meggels said:


> I rotate Abbie between grain free and grain inclusive. No issues at all. She's got a pretty strong tummy though.


Good to know  Sparks has a pretty tough tummy as well, so I don't think it would be a problem. I may include one grain food in his rotation


----------



## meggels (May 30, 2010)

sparks72 said:


> Good to know  Sparks has a pretty tough tummy as well, so I don't think it would be a problem. I may include one grain food in his rotation


Abbie does really well on fromms grain inclusive foods  she also just switched off of natural balances synergy formula, which has grains, earthborns Great Plains feast, which is grain free, in a matter of like 3 days lol.


----------



## sparks72 (Oct 31, 2012)

meggels said:


> Abbie does really well on fromms grain inclusive foods  she also just switched off of natural balances synergy formula, which has grains, earthborns Great Plains feast, which is grain free, in a matter of like 3 days lol.


Sparks does amazing on Fromms foods that have grains, so i'd really like to keep one in his diet  

I think I may hold off on putting a grain inclusive food in his diet until he gets his annual exam with blood work done.vive read that grains can mask an underlying liver problem. Every single blood work he's had has always come back perfect...so it'll be interesting to see how his read in January is.


----------



## 1605 (May 27, 2009)

sparks72 said:


> Thanks!  I look forward to interacting with everyone here!
> 
> What other grain free kibbles would you suggest? I'm not a fan of white potato...so that elimates A LOT of grain free kibbles  I was looking into nutrisca as well..pretty decent formula. I really wish Merrick had their QC issues under control...I LOVE their new grain free formulas, but I just won't risk it.
> 
> I've been adding water to kibble ever since I can remember  Sparks gets 1/4 c kibble two times a day along with 1/4 water each time mixed in.


We like the EVO line for our GSPs, specifically the Turkey/Chicken because our 5-yr-old is beef intolerant.

I really like the fact that the better quality foods mean you don't have to feed them as much as the "bargain brands".


----------



## lauren43 (Feb 6, 2011)

Here's my list: 

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BxiaLREJEwO_QnRfa3g5X3p2RGs/edit

Still a work in progress though. But you can see quite a few kibbles back to back. A kibble with a higher protein level will have lower carbs generally unfortunately ash level has an effect on carbs as well.

I tried Nutrisca with my dog and she did ok/well on it but I decided to change because they are made by dogswell which does source ingredients from china.

Out of curiosity what is your issue with white potato?

Fromm is a great company and although some of their ingredients are questionable (like why a dog needs cheese) many dogs do very well on their formulas. I also like Acana, Horizon, and well I like a lot on that list. I think many of them are worth a try and if your dog does well on them well...yay!!


----------



## sozzle (May 18, 2011)

Although I am not a kibble feeder for my own dog I have two foster greyhounds at the moment and I love the idea of using stock to add extra moisture to the food. I grabbed some beef bones and simmered them for about an hour and then poured the cool liquid into big containers in the fridge and used to soak their kibble.
Now I have got them off the kibble (the one we are supplied with is not a very good one) and am still using the stock in their morning food which is dog roll (cooked meat and rice with about 85% meat content).
Very handy to have.
Sorry not much help on kibble front as we have a much much smaller range in New Zealand than you have.


----------



## sparks72 (Oct 31, 2012)

lauren43 said:


> Here's my list:
> 
> https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BxiaLREJEwO_QnRfa3g5X3p2RGs/edit
> 
> ...


This may be a stupid question, but out of feeding a food higher in ash or higher in carbs, which is better? Assuming they both have a good ingrediant list

My dog had a food that contained white potatoes (orijen) a while back for about 2 wks , and his coat got extremely dry and he was so itchy..which has never happened to him before. He also smelled really funny..not bad, just a weird smell. I believe he's allergic to white potato. 

Btw, thanks for your list


----------



## sparks72 (Oct 31, 2012)

SubMariner said:


> We like the EVO line for our GSPs, specifically the Turkey/Chicken because our 5-yr-old is beef intolerant.
> 
> I really like the fact that the better quality foods mean you don't have to feed them as much as the "bargain brands".


Me too  love it that a smaller amt goes a long way!


----------



## sparks72 (Oct 31, 2012)

sozzle said:


> Although I am not a kibble feeder for my own dog I have two foster greyhounds at the moment and I love the idea of using stock to add extra moisture to the food. I grabbed some beef bones and simmered them for about an hour and then poured the cool liquid into big containers in the fridge and used to soak their kibble.
> Now I have got them off the kibble (the one we are supplied with is not a very good one) and am still using the stock in their morning food which is dog roll (cooked meat and rice with about 85% meat content).
> Very handy to have.
> Sorry not much help on kibble front as we have a much much smaller range in New Zealand than you have.


Thats a great idea! I will have to try that for sure!


----------



## DaViking (Sep 27, 2011)

sparks72 said:


> This may be a stupid question, but out of feeding a food higher in ash or higher in carbs, which is better? Assuming they both have a good ingrediant list


Not a stupid question at all. You want neither. Around 6% to 8% ash is fine and around 20% to 40% carbohydrates is fine.


----------



## sparks72 (Oct 31, 2012)

DaViking said:


> Not a stupid question at all. You want neither. Around 6% to 8% ash is fine and around 20% to 40% carbohydrates is fine.


The NV instinct kibble I'm feeding is wayyyy to high in ash then? I've read their formulas are between 9 - 12... Even higher..but I've never contacted the company myself. 

I think I've made up my mind I want a food that is between 25-30% protein and moderate to higher fat levels. I kind if don't feel comfortable feeding such a high protein diet. Well, I want to keep one high protein diet in the mix, one moderate, and the other moderate with a grain. Lol I know, I'm complicated!! What are some of your best food suggestions? No white potato...or white potato further down the list.


----------



## DaViking (Sep 27, 2011)

sparks72 said:


> The NV instinct kibble I'm feeding is wayyyy to high in ash then? I've read their formulas are between 9 - 12... Even higher..but I've never contacted the company myself.
> 
> I think I've made up my mind I want a food that is between 25-30% protein and moderate to higher fat levels. I kind if don't feel comfortable feeding such a high protein diet. Well, I want to keep one high protein diet in the mix, one moderate, and the other moderate with a grain. Lol I know, I'm complicated!! What are some of your best food suggestions? No white potato...or white potato further down the list.


NV use clay in their formulas, some of the excessive ash comes from the clay.

25% to 30% protein is a good range.

Some alternatives.

High protein grain free, no potato:

Horizon Legacy
Back To Basics
EVO Herring

Moderate protein, no potato:

NutriSource Chicken & Rice
Dr Tim's Kinesis
Annamaet Encore


----------

