# Yeah I did it



## DaViking (Sep 27, 2011)

So, here's what I did. I switched Chips to K9Natural Beef. :shocked: 









Why? Aren't I against all this "fancy" and expensive stuff and like more classic proven type formulas? Well, yes and no. Since we moved out west Chips' regular food is nowhere to be found and we switched to Eagle Pack Original. Nothing wrong with EP but it's not my first choice for him. I still believe there are many more good classic type foods than there are good more modern, GF if you will, kibble. Nothing changed. What I don't like is the plethora of foods who try to sail under a false flag, trying to portray themselves as something they are not and at the same time asking crazy prices because they are able to sell a message. Their formulations are often awful. Also, I don't care how much a product cost per say, I care about nutrition for the individual, full stop. If I can get something I believe is a great and nutritious food, something superior to the "high end" crappy kibble formulas, at a comparable price I am all for it. So here we are, his old food is no longer available, I got the opportunity to buy K9Natural at a favorable price and I get to learn more about freeze dried and dehydrated raw foods. To me it make sense. I see very little point in going for expensive "high end" kibble that in many cases are inferior to other cheaper alternatives. IMO all the extra money you pay doesn't translate to better health or performance. Barring special requirements of course. Air dried, freeze dried or dehydrated is different and comes with some properties kibble can never have. So even if freeze dried is more expensive than foods I normally would choose it's still something to explore because it adds something to the table. Is freeze dried/dehydrated all great then? No. You can mess up these foods just as easy as you can mess up any other food, actually you can mess them up even more since carbs/starch/plants, fruits & berries are raw, recipe for disaster. I don't like to feed an army of various functional (plant) ingredients. I like protein and fats with a dollop of starch and fiber and a pinch of antioxidants etc. So looking at a number of freeze dried and dehydrated products K9Natural Beef stood out to me with it's 35% protein and 39% fat. Chips really burns energy like it is going out of style and I have no problem with serving up 39% fat. I don't know if this is going to be successful, time will tell, but I do believe in it and I certainly think this make way more sense than to buy Orijen.

Going to be interesting to see the results and I get to learn more :smile:


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## sozzle (May 18, 2011)

G'day mate - and you are using a New Zealand product - wow! that will cost muchly considering how far that bag has come? (think of the carbon miles). Funnily enough I just used (for the first time) up a bag of that as we took the hound away for Easter and it was pretty bloody expensive here even though the petshop owner gave it to me at a reduced price as it doesn't sell well in her shop and it was the last bag. I used to use their frozen raw (not freeze dried) food when I first started out and it was much cheaper although still pricey for a large dog.
This food doesn't really reconstitute when you add warm water so it was fairly sloppy if you follow the instructions, however Stanley will eat pretty much anything so I didn't worry about it.
I don't suppose you would have to add warm water if you didn't want to, that way it would be more like kibble?
Could you not get something comparable in quality made in USA?
Not that I mind you using a kiwi product, in fact I think it's great really.
ps. would love to know how much you paid for that. The one I bought at a reduced price was NZ$20 (US$17) but the standard price was approx NZ$27 (US$22). Dammit I will kick myself if you got it cheaper!!!!!!!!!!


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## monster'sdad (Jul 29, 2012)

Wow, what a bargain. So if you had a Labrador, lets say, this food could cost about $12-$13 a day to feed.

Tim, where did you move that no performance kibbles are available?


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## Dobelover (Mar 14, 2013)

Why not just make your own raw diet? Would be just as good, if not better, and much cheaper. What food was he on that is no longer available?


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## lauren43 (Feb 6, 2011)

DaViking said:


> What I don't like is the plethora of foods who try to sail under a false flag, trying to portray themselves as something they are not and at the same time asking crazy prices because they are able to sell a message. Their formulations are often awful. Also, I don't care how much a product cost per say, I care about nutrition for the individual, full stop. If I can get something I believe is a great and nutritious food, something superior to the "high end" crappy kibble formulas, at a comparable price I am all for it.:


As far as kibble goes I trust you more than pretty much anyone on this forum. There was a time where I believed one way but many of your posts have made me think differently. And the way you break things down makes way more sense than "what I've been told". So here's my question: how can you tell a formulation is crap? How can you determine digestibility? How do you know the company is flying a false flag? I want to understand how to read a bag in this way rather than just looking at ingredients and percentages and going from there.


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## DaViking (Sep 27, 2011)

Dobelover said:


> Why not just make your own raw diet? Would be just as good, if not better, and much cheaper. What food was he on that is no longer available?


No. Been feeding raw for a long time and I now what goes into that in form of time, money, commitment and adjusting. Not an option, doesn't fit our way of life and not up for debate.
Our old brand was Nutram.


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## DaViking (Sep 27, 2011)

monster'sdad said:


> Wow, what a bargain. So if you had a Labrador, lets say, this food could cost about $12-$13 a day to feed.
> 
> Tim, where did you move that no performance kibbles are available?


This will cost less than Orijen and all kibble in the same price range. For small dogs ppl usually buy 4lb to 6.5lb bags that cost up to $25-$30 for the most expensive brands. Buying the smallest K9 bag is in the same range without any discount and will last the same number of days.

Yes, there are options around, including a store who sells a full RedPaw lineup. No problem finding foods for him, I just want to see what K9Natural brings to the table and I can afford it. This was a quick decision so I didn't have time to look into all freeze dried and dehydrated options but if you compare K9 with many of the others you'll see it is different in that they don't add much in terms of plants. Some brands add a lot of raw plant material.


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## DaViking (Sep 27, 2011)

sozzle said:


> G'day mate - and you are using a New Zealand product - wow! that will cost muchly considering how far that bag has come? (think of the carbon miles). Funnily enough I just used (for the first time) up a bag of that as we took the hound away for Easter and it was pretty bloody expensive here even though the petshop owner gave it to me at a reduced price as it doesn't sell well in her shop and it was the last bag. I used to use their frozen raw (not freeze dried) food when I first started out and it was much cheaper although still pricey for a large dog.
> This food doesn't really reconstitute when you add warm water so it was fairly sloppy if you follow the instructions, however Stanley will eat pretty much anything so I didn't worry about it.
> I don't suppose you would have to add warm water if you didn't want to, that way it would be more like kibble?
> Could you not get something comparable in quality made in USA?
> ...


I did get a good deal 

I don't think it's supposed to reconstitute. The blood will sip into the warm water and make it baited. There really aren't that many "big" brands selling freeze dried or dehydrated and of those I discarded many right of the bat. However there are many small and probably more regional brands doing this kind of stuff so I might find a north American brand similar to K9Natural when I have time to sniff around a bit.


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## DaViking (Sep 27, 2011)

lauren43 said:


> As far as kibble goes I trust you more than pretty much anyone on this forum. There was a time where I believed one way but many of your posts have made me think differently. And the way you break things down makes way more sense than "what I've been told". So here's my question: how can you tell a formulation is crap? How can you determine digestibility? How do you know the company is flying a false flag? I want to understand how to read a bag in this way rather than just looking at ingredients and percentages and going from there.


First of all thanks :smile:

Honestly, I should be careful with using the word crap because it's a big world out there and there are dogs doing great on a food I will call crap. Anyway, the short answer is when I consistently see 7 out 10 dogs doing badly on a food that's supposed to be "species appropriate" and cost a lot I will call it crap. So that's the 2nd hand angle. The 1st hand angle is from a performance pov. I realize that is not everyones pov but it still provide useful knowledge for everyone since the true face of any diet comes out when the body is under stress.


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## lauren43 (Feb 6, 2011)

What would be your top 5 go to foods? Foods that seem to work well for most dogs and I guess food where you are getting the best bang for your buck?

And then the 5 worst in your eyes? The types you would classify as flying a false flag?


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## DaViking (Sep 27, 2011)

lauren43 said:


> What would be your top 5 go to foods? Foods that seem to work well for most dogs and I guess food where you are getting the best bang for your buck?
> 
> And then the 5 worst in your eyes? The types you would classify as flying a false flag?


I don't have a top or bottom 5. For my own dogs, helping the neighbor or consulting for kennels, owners, handlers or mushers etc I have a number of brands and foods I have good results with. Most are more general go to foods, some are for specific situations. I don't rank among them, doesn't make sense. Not all are available on this side of the Atlantic though and some are only available in Canada.

Some N. American go to foods:
Precise Foundation, Competition, Performance, Chicken & Rice and lately Holistic Small & Medium Breed
Nutram Adult, Active and Weight Control
Horizon Complete and Legacy
Royal Canin Pro Mini, Mini Special, Cyno 3600 and 4800, GSD
Nutreco Lifetime Chicken & Rice
Eagle Pack Original Series
Now
Go Fit+Free
Fromm Gold
First Mate GF LIDs
Eukanuba Premium 30/20
ProPlan 30/20
Holistic Select Anchovy, Sardine and Salmon
Annamaet

This is pretty much my "toolbox" if you want.

Then there are a number of foods I have no or limited experience with but don't have any problems recommending based on what I can see and read and what others I regard as highly knowledgeable say.
Those are:
Dr Tims
RedPaw
Inukshuk

Worst? Hmmm. First of all they are not the worst dog foods out there but it is no secret that I do not like Acana foods. Overpriced and big turds. You can get similar composition and fat, protein and carb energy distribution for close to half the price. I'd much rather feed Orijen Regional Red then but as I said earlier I don't see much point in buying a kibble at Orijen prices and limitations when you can get air dried, freeze dried or dehydrated for more or less the same. Blue Buffalo I'd put in this category too. Overhyped nothing to get excited over, you'd be better of picking up a bag of Iams, ProPlan or Eukanuba.

Now I'd like to learn more about freeze dried and dehydrated foods so I'd love to hear all experiences.


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## lauren43 (Feb 6, 2011)

Me too (about the freeze dried). My only experience with them is as treats (Ziwipeak) and if course Avery thought they were delicious!


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## DaViking (Sep 27, 2011)

lauren43 said:


> Me too (about the freeze dried). My only experience with them is as treats (Ziwipeak) and if course Avery thought they were delicious!


I am doing a Google drive spreadsheet right now on a few freeze dried and dehydrated foods. I'll share as soon as I fill it up with some data.


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## InkedMarie (Sep 9, 2011)

I have fed The Honest Kitchen off & on or seven years. I've fed all of the dog ones except Thrive and Preference. Most dogs seem to poop lot on THK but I've had a couple who have not. I will probably always use it.
I used Grandma Lucy's PureFormance recently. Dogs liked it. It's much thicker, with hunks of dehydrated meat in it.
Viking, I'll be interested to hear how this works for you.


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