# Vaccination Schedules



## DaneMama

> Natalie: This is a subject for another thread if you want to persue it but booster shots don't really boost anything. You give a series of vaccinations for reasons that have to do with mother's immunity still being in the puppy's body for an undertermined period of time. If you knew the exact moment the mother's immunity was no longer in the puppy's body, one vaccination is all that's needed.


Ok...started a new thread...so the other one wouldn't be thread jacked LOL

If the mother's immunity is up (vaccinated as an adult), the puppies get her immunity through her milk. When they are weaned from her milk they don't have enough antibodies to stay safe from parvovirus, parainfluenza, hepatitis, and distemper until the age of 16 weeks, or 4 months. So they have to be boostered at 8 weeks (which is usually when puppies are completely off their mother's milk...at least by the choice of the mother LOL) to make sure they have immunity. Then boostered again and 12 weeks, because their immune systems are still not mature and able to produce enough antibodies to sustain immunity. Finally at 4 months their immune systems are mature enough to sustain immunity through adulthood.

That is why it is completely unneccesary for breeders to vaccinate before 8 weeks of age....but still so many do. 

Boosters should be given once a month til 4 months of age...so one shot at 8 weeks, one at 12 weeks and the last at 16 weeks.

Puppies not boostered between the ages of 8 weeks to 16 weeks have a great risk to getting things like parvo...I have seen it countless times working at vet clinics. Its a devastating disease that most likely means death for the puppy. If puppies didn't get parvo, etc between these ages it would be worthless to give boosters. And since the parvovirus is a very hardy and is sustained in the environment...found in pretty much any ground soil...even if puppies are kept within their home environment, they are still at risk.

Like I stated in the other thread, this is what I have researched to be the most successful, and have little biased opinion pushed on me by others.


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## RawFedDogs

danemama08 said:


> Ok...started a new thread...so the other one wouldn't be thread jacked LOL
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If the mother's immunity is up (vaccinated as an adult), the puppies get her immunity through her milk.
> 
> 
> 
> All of what you say is partially right according to my research which includes conversations with Jean Dobbs and other immune system experts. What happens is that dogs will retain mama's immunity for a period of time after they are weaned. Those antibodies don't die off the day they stop nursing. So if a vaccination is given at 8 weeks and they probably still have mama's antibodies in their bloodstream, mama's antibodies kill the MLV (Modified Live Virus) in the vaccination and the vaccinatin was useless. It accomplished nothing. If, on the other hand, they had none of mama's antibodies present the vaccination would immunize them indefinately.
> 
> The exact same thing happens at the 12 week "booster". If the 1st didn't take and they still have mama's antibodies, the 2nd won't take either. If the first didn't take and the no longer have mama's antibodies, the 2nd will immunize them.
> 
> By 16 weeks of age almost all puppies no longer have mama's antibodies (99% of them). Sooooo .... if none of the other vaccinations "took" because of mama's antibodies, this one certainly will. By 16 weeks, the immune system has matured to the point that this vaccination will definately be good for a lifetime. There is some little controversy about taking another "booster" at one year to be sure but except for that, no more MLV type vaccinations are neccessary for the dogs life. I did not give Thor his vaccinations at 1 year. His 16 weeks vaccinations were his last. He will turn 5 in January.
> 
> I have references on this somewhere but I don't have time to look for them right now. We are leaving shortly for our Thanksgiving festivities with the family.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Boosters should be given once a month til 4 months of age...so one shot at 8 weeks, one at 12 weeks and the last at 16 weeks.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Only because you have no accurate way of knowing which "boosters" "took" and which ones didn't.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Puppies not boostered between the ages of 8 weeks to 16 weeks have a great risk to getting things like parvo...I have seen it countless times working at vet clinics.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I have also heard of parvo vaccine actually giving parvo to puppies.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like I stated in the other thread, this is what I have researched to be the most successful, and have little biased opinion pushed on me by others.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Our methods are the same, our reasons differ. :smile:
Click to expand...


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## HarleyandRoscoesMom

Ok so I have always had to give all my pups 3 sets of vaccines when I got them I rescued a pit early this year and found her a great home but the shelter had me do 2 boosters she was 2yrs old...was this necessary....I mean she was 2 and came from a good home but they had to move to germany so couldnt take her with them...I also got Roscoe from the same shelter he is between 5-6 mths old and they are wanting me to get a 3rd booster does this do anything for him??? Im not concerned about the cost it was included in the adoption just curious as to if its necessary to load the pups with all the extra vaccines...Harley is 5 mths now and we somehow got behind on her vaccines so she will be going to get her rabies and last booster on Monday at the animal birth control clinic because the vet onpost is backed up till next month...also Princess is due for a Rabies shot the city instructs us to give one every year...I have always thought they were good for at least a couple yrs (my dogs growing up i think got one every other year).


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## RawFedDogs

HarleyandRoscoesMom said:


> Ok so I have always had to give all my pups 3 sets of vaccines when I got them I rescued a pit early this year and found her a great home but the shelter had me do 2 boosters she was 2yrs old...was this necessary


Assuming their most recent vaccinations were after 16 weeks of age, no more are needed ... ever.



> I also got Roscoe from the same shelter he is between 5-6 mths old and they are wanting me to get a 3rd booster does this do anything for him???


Again, assuming the most recent vaccinations were at or after 16 weeks of age, no more are needed ... ever.




> Im not concerned about the cost it was included in the adoption just curious as to if its necessary to load the pups with all the extra vaccines.


Vaccines CAN and often do cause lots of problems for dogs.



> Harley is 5 mths now and we somehow got behind on her vaccines so she will be going to get her rabies and last booster on Monday at the animal birth control clinic because the vet onpost is backed up till next month


Again depending on when he received his last vaccination, he doesn't need any more. Put off the Rabies vaccination as long as possible. It is the most dangerous of all the vaccines and the dog should be as mature as possible when he is given this vaccination.



> also Princess is due for a Rabies shot the city instructs us to give one every year...I have always thought they were good for at least a couple yrs (my dogs growing up i think got one every other year).


The laws in most jurisdictions now call for Rabies vaccinations every 3 years. Tests have determined that Rabies vaccinations last at least 7 years and probably a lifetime. There is research going on now to determine if these vaccinations last a lifetime or exactly how long they do last.

Humans don't get yearly vaccinations of any kind.


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## HarleyandRoscoesMom

Roscoe just had his 2nd set on the 9th so yes he was over 16 weeks but like I mentioned before he was a rescue from a shelter and they already gave him his rabies the day I picked him up : ( I didnt have a say so they make you do it if you get them from the shelter..I am just wondering if I can just tell them I would prefer not to get the last booster shot and explain to them of my concerns

Also should I put Harleys Rabies shot off till later on??? She is 5 mths today.
Princess had one in November of last year


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## RawFedDogs

HarleyandRoscoesMom said:


> Roscoe just had his 2nd set on the 9th so yes he was over 16 weeks but like I mentioned before he was a rescue from a shelter and they already gave him his rabies the day I picked him up


A lot of shelters are like that. You can't really do anything about that.



> I am just wondering if I can just tell them I would prefer not to get the last booster shot and explain to them of my concerns


If it were me, I'd just not bring it up at all and not get the shots.



> Also should I put Harleys Rabies shot off till later on??? She is 5 mths today. Princess had one in November of last year


I don't know what the legal requirements are in your location. I rarely pay attention to those requirements but I'm not going to advise you to do that. I can advise you to put it off as long as legally possible and maybe cheat another month or two. :smile:


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## HarleyandRoscoesMom

Thank you so much for your input I actually just came home from a terrible vet interview...I was so disturbed at how set they were in their own ways that I told them that I will definatly not be going to them for any services...so I am going to wait for princess to get her next rabies shot they said if she does get picked up which she wont they will fine me but owell shes to fast for the city anyways lol plus shes always supervised outdoors!!!


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## malluver1005

Do dogs need the rabies shot all their lives? I've heard that after they are a certain amount of years old, it's not necessary because it's such a potent vaccine and hard for their immune system...


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## HarleyandRoscoesMom

malluver1005 said:


> Do dogs need the rabies shot all their lives? I've heard that after they are a certain amount of years old, it's not necessary because it's such a potent vaccine and hard for their immune system...


Well if it was up to the vets and cities it is by law suppose to be given every year even though the vaccine they give is a 3 yr vaccine.....and they dont think that it will harm them to have to many (freakin idiots) sorry had a fight with the vet today LOL


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## DaneMama

Puppies are usually weaned by six weeks of age, I had to force Bailey to nurse her puppies starting at 5 weeks. So a booster at 8 weeks is still an ok time to vaccinate. How are you to know if the puppy has enough antibodies still around at 8 and 12 weeks of age? Doing a titer? That gives you info about their immunity, but every dog is different and so there are no standards that say a certain level of antibodies means immunity for that particular dog. Just having one lonely antibody is not enough for a dog to have full immunity to a disease.

IMO based on first hand experience, is that it is far more likely that a puppy will get sick if not vaccinated. It was a daily occurance at the hospital I interned at for an entire year, and I was only there for 2 days out of the week. Most of those puppies ended up dying, because they weren't vaccinated 

*IF* is just far too risky for me to hold faith in. Reactions to vaccines are very rare, and most of the time cause nothing but hives. Older dogs are definitely at a higher risk, and that is why I wont ever vaccinate my dogs past about 7 (I plan to give a last round of vaccines at that point). To me the slim risk of a bad reaction to a vaccine is much less of an issue for me. I would rather be safe than sorry. I've seen enough puppies die a horrible, painful death than anyone would care to see.

I would definitely play it safe and have any puppy boostered at 8, 12 and 16 weeks. After that, be very sparing with vaccinations. If adopting a dog from a shelter, it is also best to be safe than sorry, and just get them vaccinated. You do not know where they came from and if they have even been vaccinated, trust me...you can't trust the word of anyone when it comes to vaccination histories. If is just too much of a risk to not just get it done. There are no cures for some of the diseases that the vaccine covers. Are you willing to watch your dog suffer and then be put down because there is nothing to be done? Just Finish their schedule until they have an annual, which in reality will last longer than a year (rabies up to 7 years).

ETA: Shelters give a rabies vaccination because of legal reasons. It is required by law, at least in most areas, that they be vaccinated against rabies before they go to their new homes. Because the US is not a rabies free country, vaccination is essential to prevent the spread. Like I posted earlier a rabies vaccination should be good for at least 7 years.


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## malluver1005

Aspen's 4 and just got his three year rabies about a month ago. Does he still need it every three years for the rest of his life?


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## DaneMama

malluver1005 said:


> Do dogs need the rabies shot all their lives? I've heard that after they are a certain amount of years old, it's not necessary because it's such a potent vaccine and hard for their immune system...


I wouldn't ever vaccinate an older dog...most likely they have immunity and the risks of bad reactions go up. I plan to vaccinate my dogs again around the age of 7, and that's it.


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## DaneMama

malluver1005 said:


> Aspen's 4 and just got his three year rabies about a month ago. Does he still need it every three years for the rest of his life?


Rabies vaccines are known to last up to 7 years...so no. I wouldn't vaccinate him every three years if I were you. I would say that is probably the last rabies he will ever need :biggrin:


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## HarleyandRoscoesMom

danemama08 said:


> Puppies are usually weaned by six weeks of age, I had to force Bailey to nurse her puppies starting at 5 weeks. So a booster at 8 weeks is still an ok time to vaccinate. How are you to know if the puppy has enough antibodies still around at 8 and 12 weeks of age? Doing a titer? That gives you info about their immunity, but every dog is different and so there are no standards that say a certain level of antibodies means immunity for that particular dog. Just having one lonely antibody is not enough for a dog to have full immunity to a disease.
> 
> IMO based on first hand experience, is that it is far more likely that a puppy will get sick if not vaccinated. It was a daily occurance at the hospital I interned at for an entire year, and I was only there for 2 days out of the week. Most of those puppies ended up dying, because they weren't vaccinated
> 
> *IF* is just far too risky for me to hold faith in. Reactions to vaccines are very rare, and most of the time cause nothing but hives. Older dogs are definitely at a higher risk, and that is why I wont ever vaccinate my dogs past about 7 (I plan to give a last round of vaccines at that point). To me the slim risk of a bad reaction to a vaccine is much less of an issue for me. I would rather be safe than sorry. I've seen enough puppies die a horrible, painful death than anyone would care to see.
> 
> I would definitely play it safe and have any puppy boostered at 8, 12 and 16 weeks. After that, be very sparing with vaccinations. If adopting a dog from a shelter, it is also best to be safe than sorry, and just get them vaccinated. You do not know where they came from and if they have even been vaccinated, trust me...you can't trust the word of anyone when it comes to vaccination histories. If is just too much of a risk to not just get it done. There are no cures for some of the diseases that the vaccine covers. Are you willing to watch your dog suffer and then be put down because there is nothing to be done? Just Finish their schedule until they have an annual, which in reality will last longer than a year (rabies up to 7 years).
> 
> ETA: Shelters give a rabies vaccination because of legal reasons. It is required by law, at least in most areas, that they be vaccinated against rabies before they go to their new homes. Because the US is not a rabies free country, vaccination is essential to prevent the spread. Like I posted earlier a rabies vaccination should be good for at least 7 years.


I will definatly finish the reg vaccinations because I would rather have a allergic reaction than to see them suffer!!! The county I live in says I have to give a Rabies vaccine every year even tho they give a 3yr vaccine or I will be fined if ever they got out and the city picked them up....


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## DaneMama

HarleyandRoscoesMom said:


> I will definatly finish the reg vaccinations because I would rather have a allergic reaction than to see them suffer!!! The county I live in says I have to give a Rabies vaccine every year even tho they give a 3yr vaccine or I will be fined if ever they got out and the city picked them up....


Allergic reactions are the most common reaction, but there are more serious ones but are very rare. I have only seen 2 allergic reactions, which were nothing but hives. Gave the dog some benadry and all was fine. 

With being in the vet industry for about 3 years, relatively short in the grand scheme of things, I have yet to see a serious life threatening or even deadly reaction to a vaccine. Or have heard of any...

How many cases of parvo or distemper have I seen in those 3 years??? More than I care to remember.

That is where I am basing my opinions and recommendations on.

We have the same laws here too. But we rarely follow the rules. We have 3 dogs over the legal limit here. We never use leashes, all the dogs are under voice control 99% of the time. I would be fined if we were caught doing any of those things. As of right now we are legal in the rabies department, but that will soon expire...and I don't think that I will do much about it :biggrin:


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## RawFedDogs

danemama08 said:


> How are you to know if the puppy has enough antibodies still around at 8 and 12 weeks of age? Doing a titer?


Contrary to popular belief, titers is not a measure of immunity_(1)_. I can tell you have experience in a vet's office. :smile:



> IMO based on first hand experience, is that it is far more likely that a puppy will get sick if not vaccinated. It was a daily occurance at the hospital I interned at for an entire year, and I was only there for 2 days out of the week. Most of those puppies ended up dying, because they weren't vaccinated


Based on posts from a couple of vaccination boards, it is rare that a puppy will get sick if no immunized. I know of a couple of boards where the people on that board NEVER vaccinate their puppies and don't have the problems vaccinated dogs do. These people's dogs seem to be very healthy.



> *IF* is just far too risky for me to hold faith in. Reactions to vaccines are very rare, and most of the time cause nothing but hives.


You are correct in the type of reactions you are talking about and most vets think about. Long term problems are very pervasive in todays animal world. Things like behavior problems, allergies, other immune system problems, ear and skin conditions, heart problems, liver problems, pancreas problems can all be traced back to vaccinations. 75% of the dogs a vet sees, he sees within 3 months of the dog being vaccinated. That should say something. Reactions to vaccines is much more than just the hives or an injection site tumor a week or so after the vaccination. Most problems don't show up for a long time._(2)_



> Older dogs are definitely at a higher risk, and that is why I wont ever vaccinate my dogs past about 7 (I plan to give a last round of vaccines at that point).


I never vaccinate a dog after his round of puppy shots. My 5yo Thor hasn't been vaccinated since his puppy shots. 9 1/2 yo Abby hasn't been vaccinated in 6 years.



> To me the slim risk of a bad reaction to a vaccine is much less of an issue for me. I would rather be safe than sorry. I've seen enough puppies die a horrible, painful death than anyone would care to see.


It's not a slim risk. It's a very great risk of damage. You see, bombarding the immune system with 7 different diseases all at once is much more than it was designed to handle. A dog would never get exposure like that in the wild. An immune system can be severly damaged with such an onslaught of viruses all at the same time.



> I would definitely play it safe and have any puppy boostered at 8, 12 and 16 weeks.


I agree.



> After that, be very sparing with vaccinations.


After that, no vaccinations.



> If adopting a dog from a shelter, it is also best to be safe than sorry, and just get them vaccinated.


Depends on the dog's age.



> If is just too much of a risk to not just get it done.


Problem is that vet's vaccinate against diseases that aren't even present in a particular part of the country. Some of the vaccinations are against diseases that are nothing more than a cold and don't do any harm anyway. Bordetella shots should be outlawed. 



> Just Finish their schedule until they have an annual, which in reality will last longer than a year (rabies up to 7 years).


Not "up to 7 years" rather, "at least 7 years probably a lifetime".

_(1) Titers_
_(2) Pet vaccination warning. Severe adverse reaction to immunization_

*ETA:* Also see: _http://www.xceldanes.com/vaccinosis.htm_ and Google Dr. Jean Dodds and read all you can by her.

*ETA again:* One of our members is also doing great work on Rabies vaccinations: 
Kris L. Christine
THE RABIES CHALLENGE FUND
www.RabiesChallengeFund.org


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## malluver1005

RFD, you say you never vaccinate your dogs after their round of puppy shots. Is this just for the rabies or all vaccines...?


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## HarleyandRoscoesMom

RFD I am very concerned about this whole vaccine thing...how will I be able to take my dogs to the vet for any surgery...Roscoe has an umbilical hernia that needs to be repaired its not a bad one and doesnt bother him but we were just going to get it taken care of when he gets fixed and all the vets I have been to have told me he will have to get the kennel couch vaccine which I dont believe in....I dont give my human family the flu shot or any extra vaccines that are optional for school and limit antibiotic for the reason that Imo even the human body has to build its own immunity(and my kids have never been any sicker than a common cold..my 7yr old has never even had a cold and I believe this is because I let them build immunity when my friends medicate for everything and her kids not even in school get sick on a month to month basis....so in theory I would think a dog can build immunity also if given a chance....and as for the rabies the vet told me because of the area we are in the animals need it every year because of skunks and other animals around have it...my animals are mainly indoors except to go for walks and do there buisness so I would rather not get them every year but by law I suppose I have to as long as im in the state of OK..pretty much I hit a brick wall...r there vets out there that dont require all the extra vaccines before doing anything with dogs??


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## RawFedDogs

HarleyandRoscoesMom said:


> RFD I am very concerned about this whole vaccine thing...how will I be able to take my dogs to the vet for any surgery...Roscoe has an umbilical hernia that needs to be repaired its not a bad one and doesnt bother him but we were just going to get it taken care of when he gets fixed and all the vets I have been to have told me he will have to get the kennel couch vaccine which I dont believe in


My vet says he won't guarantee my dogs won't get bordetella (kennel cough) if I don't vaccinate them and they stay in his place but he doesn't require it. So search around. I interviewed about half a dozen vets last time I was looking for one and got all that stuff straight with him before I took my dogs the first time. He knows I don't vaccinate and I feed raw. The bordetella vaccine is more dangerous to your dog than the disease its supposed to protect him from. Like the flu, there are many strains of bordetella and the vaccine only protects against a few of them.



> I dont give my human family the flu shot or any extra vaccines that are optional for school and limit antibiotic for the reason that Imo even the human body has to build its own immunity(and my kids have never been any sicker than a common cold..my 7yr old has never even had a cold and I believe this is because I let them build immunity when my friends medicate for everything and her kids not even in school get sick on a month to month basis....so in theory I would think a dog can build immunity also if given a chance


We are in total agreement about that. I don't vaccinate myself or my dogs.



> and as for the rabies the vet told me because of the area we are in the animals need it every year because of skunks and other animals around have it


He's full of it. He is just trying to sell you an unneeded vaccination. The vacinne is a 3 year vaccine and giving it every year doesn't increase immunity in the least. I live in the country and there are many wild animals on my property but I don't vaccinate at all and am not worried. My dogs were vaccinated as puppies and are immune to those diseases they were vaccinated against.



> my animals are mainly indoors except to go for walks and do there buisness so I would rather not get them every year but by law I suppose I have to as long as im in the state of OK


Don't get them every year. In most states, and I bet OK is one of them that the law only requires rabies vaccinations. None of the others are required by law anywhere that I'm aware of. 

You should be able to find a vet that will abide by your wishes. I would think that in times like we are living in now, they would be more willing than ever to please their customers.



> pretty much I hit a brick wall...r there vets out there that dont require all the extra vaccines before doing anything with dogs??


The brick wall you are up against is that vets make money on the vaccinations and they are trying to maximize profits by requiring you get them for your dogs. Find out if rabies is the only vaccination required by law then tell the vet not to give any other.


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## RawFedDogs

malluver1005 said:


> RFD, you say you never vaccinate your dogs after their round of puppy shots. Is this just for the rabies or all vaccines...?


I can't say that I don't vaccinate for rabies. That would be against the law. I definately am not afraid to say I don't vaccinate for anything else after the puppy shots. I know my dogs are immune to all the things they were vaccinated against.


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## malluver1005

Aspen gets the intranasal bordetella. Is this just as dangerous as the vaccine..?


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## RawFedDogs

malluver1005 said:


> Aspen gets the intranasal bordetella. Is this just as dangerous as the vaccine..?


Yes and it's a useless vaccine. Bordetella is a nothing disease. Just a slight cold most of the time and goes away by itself in a few days.


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## DaneMama

RawFedDogs said:


> Contrary to popular belief, titers is not a measure of immunity_(1)_. I can tell you have experience in a vet's office.


The link you provided is not referenced. It is based on one person's beliefs/experiences, kinda like me. I think that a titer that shows a positive ratio means that immunity is optimum, and therefore safe not to vaccinate, but the law sees otherwise. :biggrin:

We can agree to agree on this point, and yes I work in a vet clinic since I mention it all the time, but I base my opinions off of my own research and experience :wink:



> Based on posts from a couple of vaccination boards, it is rare that a puppy will get sick if no immunized. I know of a couple of boards where the people on that board NEVER vaccinate their puppies and don't have the problems vaccinated dogs do. These people's dogs seem to be very healthy.


I don't really care what has been posted on other forums. I am basing my opinion on first hand experience watching puppies die horrible, miserable deaths that could have been prevented if vaccinated. That is far more evidence than I need. 

If an adult dog has issues because of a vaccine, at least that dog is still alive and happy. Just because some people don't vaccinate their dogs does not mean that ALL puppies (or adult dogs from shelters) will be safe....all dogs and immune systems are different. There are different vaccines that include different coverage....ie DHPP= distemper, hepatitis, parvovirus, parainfluenza...etc. There are numerous different boosters that cover the different diseases. If you are worried about the dog being bombared with vaccines all at once...find a vet that will vaccinate one or two diseases at once instead of all of them at them same time.



> You are correct in the type of reactions you are talking about and most vets think about. Long term problems are very pervasive in todays animal world. Things like behavior problems, allergies, other immune system problems, ear and skin conditions, heart problems, liver problems, pancreas problems can all be traced back to vaccinations. 75% of the dogs a vet sees, he sees within 3 months of the dog being vaccinated. That should say something. Reactions to vaccines is much more than just the hives or an injection site tumor a week or so after the vaccination. Most problems don't show up for a long time._(2)_


Again, not referenced. One persons account. It may be based on research but there is not reference to that research, so therefore it is not valid in the scientific field :biggrin:

Any of the symptoms you listed could very well be positively correlated with diet. How do you know that vaccines are to be blamed and not a species innappropriate diet??? Or hostile environment??? There are too many variables in life to pinpoint the source of these *very* vague issues. There needs to be research done in specific detail over long periods of time to be sure what happens really happens. This means many, many different trials and variables. I can list some of them if you want.... 




> I never vaccinate a dog after his round of puppy shots. My 5yo Thor hasn't been vaccinated since his puppy shots. 9 1/2 yo Abby hasn't been vaccinated in 6 years.


Puppy shots I am 100% all for. We agree on that, except for maybe the logistics of it. Again, there needs to be more clinical, *species appropriate*, experimentation on this to be 100% sure what is ideal. Unfortunately this takes time and lots of money.



> It's not a slim risk. It's a very great risk of damage. You see, bombarding the immune system with 7 different diseases all at once is much more than it was designed to handle. A dog would never get exposure like that in the wild. An immune system can be severly damaged with such an onslaught of viruses all at the same time.


Reference? Do you have proof this is so for a dog/cat that is fed a species appropriate diet? My guess is probably not. Most studies/experiments done these days are done on animals fed a grain/carb based diet. That can't give correct and appropriate data based on that factor alone. 

We are in total agreement on this, but in reality its not that easy. You have to deal with what is available and what is most important. An alive puppy is better than a dead one right? Even if that puppy may have long term affects form a vaccine? Would you rather your puppy be dead than have a treatable problem caused by a vaccine? 

Again I think that we are in agreement about vaccination schedules. Get their immunity up with boosters as a puppy, or new dog to you, and then not re-vaccinate....EVER.



> Bordetella shots should be outlawed.


I just plain don't get this vaccine at all. There are 13+ different strains of the kennel cough virus. The bordatella vaccine only covers like 5 or 6 of them...better yet...it only makes the symptoms less noticable only, still communicable to other dogs tho. Pointless.

And can you believe there is a K9 influenza vaccine???? I have NEVER gotten a flu vaccine....and have yet to get it. I just eat healthy and stay active (species appropriate diet and behavior). I believe that these unneccesary vaccines just cause even more rapid mutations within the virus, making it more of a threat...




> Not "up to 7 years" rather, "at least 7 years probably a lifetime".


Mis-typed...you are correct :tongue:



> _(1) Titers_
> _(2) Pet vaccination warning. Severe adverse reaction to immunization_


Can you find *scientific* references to these websites??? *Altho, most references that you might be able to find are probably obsolete considering all research done recently on this is species inappropriate (diet based).



> *ETA:* Also see: _http://www.xceldanes.com/vaccinosis.htm_ and Google Dr. Jean Dodds and read all you can by her.


This link was broken....



> *ETA again:* One of our members is also doing great work on Rabies vaccinations:
> Kris L. Christine
> THE RABIES CHALLENGE FUND
> Duration of Immunity Study for Rabies Vaccine - Rabies Challenge Fund


I will look forward to seeing anything that she has to add to this entire topic with her research.


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## DaneMama

> malluver1005 said:
> 
> 
> 
> RFD, you say you never vaccinate your dogs after their round of puppy shots. Is this just for the rabies or all vaccines...?
Click to expand...

All vaccines. 

Rabies
DHPP (leptosporosis if you are in an afflicted area...abbreviated "L"....so DHPPL or some combo of those letters).

Once your dog has gotten an "annual" vaccination of all the necessary vaccinations (DHPP and Rabies) it is not necessary to vaccinate again.



HarleyandRoscoesMom said:


> RFD I am very concerned about this whole vaccine thing...how will I be able to take my dogs to the vet for any surgery...Roscoe has an umbilical hernia that needs to be repaired its not a bad one and doesnt bother him but we were just going to get it taken care of when he gets fixed and all the vets I have been to have told me he will have to get the kennel couch vaccine which I dont believe in....
> 
> 
> 
> Find another vet that doesn't require these vaccines for surgery. They are out there. I know this because we don't at my hospital. We will do surgery on an animal even if not "current" on rabies. Just call around and ask. But make sure that they are well equiped for the job.
> 
> I dont give my human family the flu shot or any extra vaccines that are optional for school and limit antibiotic for the reason that Imo even the human body has to build its own immunity(and my kids have never been any sicker than a common cold..my 7yr old has never even had a cold and I believe this is because I let them build immunity when my friends medicate for everything and her kids not even in school get sick on a month to month basis....so in theory I would think a dog can build immunity also if given a chance....and as for the rabies the vet told me because of the area we are in the animals need it every year because of skunks and other animals around have it...my animals are mainly indoors except to go for walks and do there buisness so I would rather not get them every year but by law I suppose I have to as long as im in the state of OK..pretty much I hit a brick wall...r there vets out there that dont require all the extra vaccines before doing anything with dogs??
Click to expand...

You are right when it comes to immunity gained from "living life" or lack of a better term. Like I stated before...I have never gotten a flu vaccine, but have gotten the flu years ago but never have before even tho there are different strains. The strains are different but similar enough that I believe that a vaccine for each one is unnecessary. Just stay healthy and you wont have a problem with disease.



RawFedDogs said:


> My vet says he won't guarantee my dogs won't get bordetella (kennel cough) if I don't vaccinate them and they stay in his place but he doesn't require it. So search around. I interviewed about half a dozen vets last time I was looking for one and got all that stuff straight with him before I took my dogs the first time. He knows I don't vaccinate and I feed raw. The bordetella vaccine is more dangerous to your dog than the disease its supposed to protect him from. Like the flu, there are many strains of bordetella and the vaccine only protects against a few of them.


The bordatella vaccine doesn't protect your dog against the disease....why???? Because there are twice as many strains of the disease than the vaccine covers. ALSO...the vaccine only lessens the symptoms of the disease. Thats it. LAME!!!!



> He's full of it. He is just trying to sell you an unneeded vaccination. The vacinne is a 3 year vaccine and giving it every year doesn't increase immunity in the least. I live in the country and there are many wild animals on my property but I don't vaccinate at all and am not worried. My dogs were vaccinated as puppies and are immune to those diseases they were vaccinated against.


+1 As long as your dog has an "annual" vaccination for Rabies and DHPP you shouldn't worry about re-vaccinating them. Ever.




> You should be able to find a vet that will abide by your wishes. I would think that in times like we are living in now, they would be more willing than ever to please their customers.


This is true. Its sad that it takes a downfall in the economy for vets to take the sides of their clients, but who cares? As long as you are in benefit of them being more open...then so be it and take advantage. THEY might actually learn something from it.


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## RawFedDogs

danemama08 said:


> The link you provided is not referenced. It is based on one person's beliefs/experiences, kinda like me. I think that a titer that shows a positive ratio means that immunity is optimum, and therefore safe not to vaccinate, but the law sees otherwise. :biggrin:


I have over 40 links to vaccination stuff in my favorites list and I picked 3 kinda at random. There are many of these links that agrees with the first link about what titers actually measures and what the measurement tells you and what it doesn't. My information doesn't come from this one page only.



> We can agree to agree on this point, and yes I work in a vet clinic since I mention it all the time, but I base my opinions off of my own research and experience :wink:


I can tell you do because I know many people who work in the vet industry and your beliefs about the vaccination system are pretty much in line with theirs. :smile:



> I don't really care what has been posted on other forums. I am basing my opinion on first hand experience watching puppies die horrible, miserable deaths that could have been prevented if vaccinated. That is far more evidence than I need.


Perhaps you should read them and see what these peoples experiences actually are. Two in particular are yahoo lists. One is the yahoo group called TruthAboutVaccines and the other is JustSayNo or SayNoToVaccines, I can't remember for sure. If you are interested and need links to these boards, I can provide them.



> Any of the symptoms you listed could very well be positively correlated with diet. How do you know that vaccines are to be blamed and not a species innappropriate diet??? Or hostile environment??? There are too many variables in life to pinpoint the source of these *very* vague issues. There needs to be research done in specific detail over long periods of time to be sure what happens really happens. This means many, many different trials and variables. I can list some of them if you want....


Here is a web page that explains that. It is an article (referenced somewhat) by Catherine O'Dryscoll. You should also Google her because like Jean Dobbs, she is one of the world's expert and researcher on vaccinations for dogs.
Science of Vaccine Damage



> We are in total agreement on this, but in reality its not that easy. You have to deal with what is available and what is most important. An alive puppy is better than a dead one right? Even if that puppy may have long term affects form a vaccine? Would you rather your puppy be dead than have a treatable problem caused by a vaccine?


Depends on what the problem is and often times he ends up dead anyway.



> Can you find *scientific* references to these websites??? *Altho, most references that you might be able to find are probably obsolete considering all research done recently on this is species inappropriate (diet based).


Scroll up and check out the link I posted in this post by Catherine O'Driscoll. It's not the scientific research carried on in a college but it is referenced.



> This link was broken....


That link worked for me last night when I was first typing my reply and again this morning while I am typing this.

http://www.xceldanes.com/vaccinosis.htm

Or are you talking about this link ... which also worked again this morning.

Duration of Immunity Study for Rabies Vaccine - Rabies Challenge Fund


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## CorgiPaws

hey guys, sorry I'm late! :biggrin:
I'm going to chime in here. 
I never knew anything about "over vaccinating" or any of the risks involved, and then there came Max. As some of you may know, Max is my 14 year old Beagle, who has totally unidentified digestion issues, and also my first dog, ever. So I recognize that maybe he's a poor example, as we don't know what exactly is wrong with him, but I'll share my experience with vaccination anyway. 
I vaccinated *Max* for about 4 years with no problems. I used to board him for a week every Summer to visit family. (which despite vaccination often returned home with kennel cough) Then one year, I had him vaccinated, dropped him off to board, and got a call four days later about the injection site losing hair around it. (she didn't know it was the injection site, just called about a baldspot forming) I was scheduled to return four days later, and assumed it was just a hot spot or something, and asked her to give him benedryl for itching. Two days later I got another call. A sore was forming in the middle of the ever-growing sight of hair loss. By the time I got home, she had to take him to her vet, he had an open sore form which drained puss, and about a 2" in diameter circle of total baldness. I assumed this was just a fluke, as the worst reaction I ever had after vaccinating was a little runny stool of vomiting. The net year, something similar happened again, this time he was vaccinated, and came home with me for over a week, and I watched the process, and took him to the vet before an open sore foarmed. They insisted on boarding him, and even so, the whole cycle repeated itself. hair loss, small sore, open sore, puss drainage, then healing. Max has never been vaccinated since then. Nor has he ever caught anything like kennel cough, distemper, parvo, rabies, etc. 

Then onto *Champ*. Champ is my ONE no-issues, totally healthy, iron-gut, can-eat-anything dog. Champ was only vaccinated once when I got him. He had puppy shots, I think, but can't be certain. I had him vaccinated one round when I got him at one year old. After vaccinating, he developed a painless, soft lump about the size of a golf ball on his back where he was vaccinated. It went away after about a week and wasn't really a concern of mine, but worth mentioning under this topic. 

*Grissom *went through all rounds of "puppy shots" with zero problems, and will never be vaccinated again. 
*Annie* had her first round of shots before I got her. I'm going to take her for a final round this week (she is 16 weeks old tomorrow) and it will be the last vaccines she will ever have.


I will also throw this out there. I expose my dogs to a lot of things. I work doggy daycare, and they all come to work with me, and have a lot of interaction with other dogs. Grissom strted daycare at 12 weeks old. Annie started daycare at 10 weeks old, and never had any problems. Champ is UNVACCINATED for Kennel Cough, and has come to work with me over the last two years I've had him, gone through three kennel cough "outbreaks" in which many vaccinated dogs got sick, and he has not gotten it. Grissom, who just turned one, is still "covered" by his vaccine, got kennel cough a couple months ago. Again, never separated the two of them, and Champ still did not get it. 

The kennel cough vaccine is an absolute joke. It's not effective enough to warrent even giving it, and is more likely to cause symptoms of kenel cough than it is to protect against it. It's JUST a "cold" and runs its course in a few days. 

I'll be honest about my dishonesty. *I do NOT vaccinate for Rabies, and I do NOT care if it's against the law.* My loyalty goes to the well being of my dogs before it goes to some bogus law. I _ADMIT_ to forging vaccination paperwork for boarding or daycare before I was an employee of such places. Now I explain my beliefs to my employers, and one had me sign a paper stating I was aware of the risks and yadda yadda yadda, and I've yet to have one with an issue. (I also rarely wear my seatbelt, speed often, and make illegal left hand turns all the time, and used to drink underage. I'm one dog above the legal limit without a boarding permit, and accept money under the table for taking care of people's dogs if you really wanna know. lol)


Anyway, just my two cents on the subject. 
I'm going to go feed my unvaccinated dog his raw chicken now. A vet's nightmare. lol.


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## malluver1005

I knew about the whole over-vaccinating issue, because a really good friend of mine (he's a vet-tech still going to school to be a doctor) told me about this. He doesn't vaccinate his dogs, except for their puppy shots. One of them is a 14 year old cattle dog and the other a 9 year old husky mix. They've never had any problems. I also don't want to over-vaccinate Aspen. He's due for his bordetella this December. I don't want to get it, but the problem is, I HAVE to get it because I want him to go to daycare and play. All daycares require bordetella (every six months), rabies, and dhlp...:frown:


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## RawFedDogs

malluver1005 said:


> He's due for his bordetella this December. I don't want to get it, but the problem is, I HAVE to get it because I want him to go to daycare and play. All daycares require bordetella (every six months), rabies, and dhlp...:frown:


If you are really serious about that, here is what you do. Order the vaccines online. There are several places you can get them. Drs. Foster & Smith are the first to come to mind. Order the vaccines and tell the day care that you vaccinate yourself. You don't have to actually vaccinate, just buy the vaccines. If they ask for proof, show them the reciept and empty the bottles and show them the empty bottles.

You can't do that with rabies vaccine as it has to be given by a vet by law but the others don't.


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## ddwcmp555

I got a question for some of you guys. 

I live in Southern California and I do not want to do a rabies vaccination annually. Unfortunatly, its the law. 

Our local humane society is running a fee racket it seems like. On top of lying / not confirming complaints (different story), they are really adament about having your dog licensed and rabies done. Is it not the same in most states??? I noticed some of you said you've gotten by without them...am I missing something?? :frown:


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## HarleyandRoscoesMom

The county I live in requires the rabies every year and registering all animals with the city...I just choice not to register them being that they are never out of my sight so they cant do anything unless they catch them out...I was also concerned about the rabies shot since a vet even said the shot is good for 3 years but we have to vaccinate every year so Idk what to do about that


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## ddwcmp555

HarleyandRoscoesMom said:


> The county I live in requires the rabies every year and registering all animals with the city...I just choice not to register them being that they are never out of my sight so they cant do anything unless they catch them out...I was also concerned about the rabies shot since a vet even said the shot is good for 3 years but we have to vaccinate every year so Idk what to do about that


Originally we weren't going to register aswell. We have a good handle on our dog too but the thing is, we got caught without a license. They said they do random house checks (ROFL) on addresses that aren't registered with a dog. Sounded weird to us too...but what were we going to do?? We didn't have a license fair and square...just the way they found us was retarded..

The license was due this month (if i remember right) and they haven't sent us a renewal letter/bill. Have a feeling they'll come to our door asking for a late fee and the license fee soon. 

But anyways, yea, I heard there were petitions going around having to do with over-vaccinations???


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## RawFedDogs

ddwcmp555 said:


> Our local humane society is running a fee racket it seems like. On top of lying / not confirming complaints (different story), they are really adament about having your dog licensed and rabies done. Is it not the same in most states??? I noticed some of you said you've gotten by without them...am I missing something?? :frown:


Most places only require a rabies vaccination every 3 years. There are still some that live in the dark ages and require them every year. The shots last over 7 years and probably a lifetime.


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## malluver1005

RawFedDogs said:


> If you are really serious about that, here is what you do. Order the vaccines online. There are several places you can get them. Drs. Foster & Smith are the first to come to mind. Order the vaccines and tell the day care that you vaccinate yourself. You don't have to actually vaccinate, just buy the vaccines. If they ask for proof, show them the reciept and empty the bottles and show them the empty bottles.
> 
> You can't do that with rabies vaccine as it has to be given by a vet by law but the others don't.


hehe :wink:

I think I'll give it a try...see if the daycare buys it!!


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## RawFedDogs

malluver1005 said:


> hehe :wink:
> 
> I think I'll give it a try...see if the daycare buys it!!


THey don't have a choice. What are they going to do, call you a liar? hehe


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## malluver1005

ddwcmp555 said:


> I got a question for some of you guys.
> 
> I live in Southern California and I do not want to do a rabies vaccination annually. Unfortunatly, its the law.
> 
> Our local humane society is running a fee racket it seems like. On top of lying / not confirming complaints (different story), they are really adament about having your dog licensed and rabies done. Is it not the same in most states??? I noticed some of you said you've gotten by without them...am I missing something?? :frown:


What part of so cal do you live in that requires rabies annually? Where I live (orange county), it's every three years...


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## ddwcmp555

malluver1005 said:


> What part of so cal do you live in that requires rabies annually? Where I live (orange county), it's every three years...


Ontario, CA

San Bernardino County

Inland Valley Humane Society

Hey, since your local, did you see that news story about that immune deficient Cocker Spaniel? The IVHS was threatening to take their dog away because they couldn't get shots. They have three seperate vet statments saying that she will die if she is given her shots. But IVHS won't pull back. I haven't heard an update. They probably left them alone after they got the press involved.


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## malluver1005

ddwcmp555 said:


> Ontario, CA
> 
> San Bernardino County
> 
> Inland Valley Humane Society
> 
> Hey, since your local, did you see that news story about that immune deficient Cocker Spaniel? The IVHS was threatening to take their dog away because they couldn't get shots. They have three seperate vet statments saying that she will die if she is given her shots. But IVHS won't pull back. I haven't heard an update. They probably left them alone after they got the press involved.


No I didn't see it, but I'll look it up...


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## ddwcmp555

Video Library - cbs2.com
English Springer sorry


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## malluver1005

How sad is that!! :frown::frown::frown:

I hope I get the petition. I'll definitely sign it!!! :wink:


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## HarleyandRoscoesMom

RawFedDogs said:


> Most places only require a rabies vaccination every 3 years. There are still some that live in the dark ages and require them every year. The shots last over 7 years and probably a lifetime.


Believe me I know and I have argued till my face is blue with every vet I have interviewed here...so I will get this years rabies and not get another for at least 3 yrs...they say its because of the high number of wild animals in this part of the country so Im hoping its not the same in Texas but I still wont give them but 3 yrs


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## HarleyandRoscoesMom

ddwcmp555 said:


> Originally we weren't going to register aswell. We have a good handle on our dog too but the thing is, we got caught without a license. They said they do random house checks (ROFL) on addresses that aren't registered with a dog. Sounded weird to us too...but what were we going to do?? We didn't have a license fair and square...just the way they found us was retarded..
> 
> The license was due this month (if i remember right) and they haven't sent us a renewal letter/bill. Have a feeling they'll come to our door asking for a late fee and the license fee soon.
> 
> But anyways, yea, I heard there were petitions going around having to do with over-vaccinations???


I cant believe that they can come to your house I would tell them to get a warrant!!!


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## CorgiPaws

malluver1005 said:


> hehe :wink:
> 
> I think I'll give it a try...see if the daycare buys it!!


They WILL buy it.
People bring these in all the time. 
We KNOW what they're up to. They tend to be the ones into holistic care, totally in tune with their dogs. Most daycare employees are the same way, and believe it or not, most daycare employees do the same thing. 
I guarantee you, they will probably know exactly what you're up to, but definately won't give a damn.


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## ddwcmp555

HarleyandRoscoesMom said:


> I cant believe that they can come to your house I would tell them to get a warrant!!!


They didn't really need to search. He is in the side yard so its visible from the street. Just couldn't believe that they would waste time and drive around checking addresses. Aren't there enough animals out there that are being abused to look for instead of fining family pets?? Exactly what we were thinking. 

Sorry this is off topic... I have some more stories, but ill leave them for another possible thread.


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## HarleyandRoscoesMom

ddwcmp555 said:


> They didn't really need to search. He is in the side yard so its visible from the street. Just couldn't believe that they would waste time and drive around checking addresses. Aren't there enough animals out there that are being abused to look for instead of fining family pets?? Exactly what we were thinking.
> 
> Sorry this is off topic... I have some more stories, but ill leave them for another possible thread.


seriously they could be out finding animals to rescue from bad homes instead of punishing the ones who love and take great care of their pets as if they were family members!!! I hope everything works out for you....just curious as to what kindof dog do you have...I know people who have certain breeds get picked on more sometimes I have been one of those people :frown:


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## ddwcmp555

HarleyandRoscoesMom said:


> seriously they could be out finding animals to rescue from bad homes instead of punishing the ones who love and take great care of their pets as if they were family members!!! I hope everything works out for you....just curious as to what kindof dog do you have...I know people who have certain breeds get picked on more sometimes I have been one of those people :frown:


Chocolate Labrador


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## HarleyandRoscoesMom

ddwcmp555 said:


> Chocolate Labrador


I think the county is just looking for ways to make money...well goodluck and hope everything works out....I love chocolate labs!!!! I had 2 growing up and the most lovey dogs I ever had!!!!!


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## malluver1005

HarleyandRoscoesMom said:


> seriously they could be out finding animals to rescue from bad homes instead of punishing the ones who love and take great care of their pets as if they were family members!!! I hope everything works out for you....just curious as to what kindof dog do you have...I know people who have certain breeds get picked on more sometimes I have been one of those people :frown:


OMG what dog racist *ssholes!! Do you know what breeds...?


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## RawFedDogs

HarleyandRoscoesMom said:


> they say its because of the high number of wild animals in this part of the country so Im hoping its not the same in Texas but I still wont give them but 3 yrs


Baloney ... they just want the money for the shots. Vets are not so stupid as to believe that the number of rabid animals around has anything to do with immunity of your dog. Your dog had a shot. He is immune. Giving more shots doesn't make him more immune.


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## HarleyandRoscoesMom

malluver1005 said:


> OMG what dog racist *ssholes!! Do you know what breeds...?


sadly yes being a military family I cant even live onpost and have to be very cautious of the city picking my animals up in OK...post housing and most places have banned Pits,german shepards,chows,rotts,and dobermans and Im sure there are a few more I will have to look the info up but the pits are the main problem we have here because the shelter wont even adopt them out instead they kill them even if they suspect pit unless a rescue steps in which they dont always have room for all of them :frown: This is how I got Roscoe he is suspected to be half am staff so luckily a friend that works at our shelter onpost (a no kill shelter) went and rescued him and then I gave him a forever home:smile:


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## HarleyandRoscoesMom

RawFedDogs said:


> Baloney ... they just want the money for the shots. Vets are not so stupid as to believe that the number of rabid animals around has anything to do with immunity of your dog. Your dog had a shot. He is immune. Giving more shots doesn't make him more immune.


exactly what I was thinking!!!! Jerks are just tryin to make a buck i


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## g00dgirl

HarleyandRoscoesMom said:


> The county I live in requires the rabies every year and registering all animals with the city...I just choice not to register them being that they are never out of my sight so they cant do anything unless they catch them out...I was also concerned about the rabies shot since a vet even said the shot is good for 3 years but we have to vaccinate every year so Idk what to do about that


Where i live I can buy the license from my vet's office, so if they administer the "3year vaccine" they will give you your license for 3 years without another vaccine. The law in KY is still annually, I believe.

I had to board my dogs last year and didn't think of buying my own vaccines. I specifically asked my vet for ONLY the three required shots, but when I got the bill I saw they gave me the 5way! I was furious. I hope I never have to board again, my dogs will never get any shots again, with the exception of rabies if there is no way around it. I'll just pay my brother to come watch them if I have to.


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## malluver1005

g00dgirl said:


> Where i live I can buy the license from my vet's office, so if they administer the "3year vaccine" they will give you your license for 3 years without another vaccine. The law in KY is still annually, I believe.
> 
> I had to board my dogs last year and didn't think of buying my own vaccines. I specifically asked my vet for ONLY the three required shots, but when I got the bill I saw they gave me the 5way! I was furious. I hope I never have to board again, my dogs will never get any shots again, with the exception of rabies if there is no way around it. I'll just pay my brother to come watch them if I have to.


Is the license pretty pricey though...?


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## malluver1005

When I first got Aspen at 8 weeks from the breeder, she told me to register him with the AKC. And I did. I didn't know any better back then. I'm seriously considering in stopping all rabies vaccinations, if not all vaccinations, from this point forward. When it's time to renew his license, in 3 years, there's a checkbox on the back of the renewal paper that says "please check if you no longer have this pet." Should I check it and return it or should I just not bother returning it at all...?


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## g00dgirl

The license is $8 for an altered pet, $40 for an intact pet. It's the same price whether you buy it from the humane society/courthouse/vet.


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## Ania's Mommy

Just thought I'd throw in what VERY little info I have on the subject.

Does anyone even know how high the rabies rate is? I remember before Ania had her rabies vaccination, I caught her chewing on an old, dead rat (I mean, this thing was disgusting! It had been dead probably 2 months). I was absolutely horrified and freaked out because I just KNEW that Ania had just gotten rabies from it. I mean, we grow up thinking that all rodents have rabies, right (at least I did)? I was immediately on the phone with my vet while my husband wrestled the nasty thing away from her. She told me that Ania was most likely fine and that the only cases of rabies that had been found in ALL of Washington were in ONE bird and ONE horse. I was shocked! I thought that our world was just teaming with rabies! 

So, I don't know if the low rate of rabies is true everywhere in the country. Or even if I was properly informed about WA. But I am interested to find out!

Oh, and Ania did NOT get rabies from the rat. :biggrin:

Richelle


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## Ania's Mommy

Oh, and I'm definitely NOT suggesting that rabies vaccinations are not necessary. I'm just curious about the frequency of outbreaks.


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## RawFedDogs

I don't think rats carry rabies. Not a lot of animals do. I will see maybe one or two news stories a year, if that much, about a wild animal that had rabies. Usually racoons.


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## Ania's Mommy

RawFedDogs said:


> I don't think rats carry rabies. Not a lot of animals do. I will see maybe one or two news stories a year, if that much, about a wild animal that had rabies. Usually racoons.


Oh yeah, I meant raccoon. A raccoon and a horse. Sorry! I had that damn rat on my brain again and it was all I could think about for a minute! Ugh!!


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