# whats your thoughts on flea & tick treatments and heartworm preventatives??



## Rvent (Apr 15, 2012)

I never gave much thought to this before just took my vets recommendation and that was that, well lately with all the recalls of stuff, and my dogs unexplained illness... I have started doing a lot of research into this and also into a healthier holistic way of life for myself as well as my dogs.... I was amazed to read all the problems with these spot on treatments, illness and death of more than 44,000 animals that's a lot. 

I guess what amazes me most and pisses me off is the vets still recommend this crap, and many other things that are in fact not healthy for our animals, for instance I took Macy to the vets yesterday ( a new one in town) for her ear problem.. mind you she has been to my regular vet 3 times for the same allergy issue ( I know allergies are tough) but... So I tell vet she is on a raw diet, apparently she is against that, tries 3 times to get me to put her on some prescription crap, had to be kinda stern an tell her I am not changing her diet period!!! Then she gave me the salmonella speech about how I can get if I am not careful, no kidding I handle and cook raw meat daily for my family..is it any different, then she tried to tell me that my dogs could get salmonella as well very easily, I kinda looked at her funny and said yep...figured as a vet she should know about dogs stomach PH but hey.

OK sorry for the long rant.. so what are your thoughts do you think its safe to use this on your dog and do you?


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## RedneckCowgirl (Oct 28, 2011)

Honestly, since switching to raw this past summer, I haven't seen as single flea on my dogs. Whereas my moms Chi has had to go through topicals like crazy. We usually add a small amount of ACV to the water, and I suppose that helps a bit, but I honestly contribute the fact that my dogs are 100% healthier on raw to the fact that they don't get fleas.


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

You brought up one of my favorite topics. I will restrain myself - I hope.  

I hate, hate, hate topicals, heart worm medications, flea anything, tick meds, etc. So many dogs get reactions and their owners are told this will pass, it's no big deal, etc. Just because we don't see what is going on in the body doesn't mean it is not affected by these toxins. 

Flea meds - I have spent more hours trying to help people fix illness and damage from these topicals - especially the cheap ones. people are so worried about fleas they are literally coating their dogs in toxins or giving them a pill. Yes, dealing with fleas is a pain, but it can be done. if you aren't willing to work at it a goldfish is definitely easier.

Heartworm - after many years someone who took one of my puppies home fell prey to their vets scare tactics and breached contract and gave my baby heartworm meds (Sentinel) within 3 days she was dropping for no apparent reason while walking or playing - total loss of muscle function. Off to the vet and no problems found. A few days later she is fine. Next month the same thing happens. Back to the vet and he wants to run a $1500 neuroligical panel. They call me upset and unhappy. We go through everything, I finally get out of them what they are giving her and tell them to stop right away - we put her on a cleansing and detoxifying program and she is perfect. They paid for a vet appointment so that he would do a phone conference with me. It wasn't pretty. i don't think he will ever give a herding breed heart worm meds again, at least I hope not. The nerve to poison one of my puppies and then tell them they need a neurological panel. Nuts. 

Vaccinations - I won't even touch these as they are a rant of epic proportions.

I think you are doing great and are on the right track with your pup. We in westernized culture want everything fixed fast, neatly and cleanly. Life is not like that. i am glad that you see that a great diet should be complimented by clean, non toxic living enviornment. I am sure I will be upsetting many with my statements but that's is how I feel from what I have researched and experienced in the last 30 odd years with dogs. No puppy of mind will go where he is pumped full of toxins and fed less than the best. If someone doesn't like that they can get a sheltie or collie from someone else.


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## Unosmom (May 3, 2009)

I do limited hw/flea and vaccine. Uno seems to get very few fleas, if it's really bad I'll apply a topical once a year during the summer, Indy on the other hand has been having issues. I've tried ACV, garlic, d-earth, only slight difference. Topicals dont seem to help, so I ordered Capstar and I'll use it in combination with Program. The poor thing is so itchy. 

With HW pills, I only do 6 months out of the year. Vaccines, just 3 year rabies (though trying to prolong it to 5 years).


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## chowder (Sep 7, 2008)

I'm so glad you answered this subject Liz, because I am at a crossroads at this point with Rocky. We live in the south (boo hiss, hopefully not for long). So we have mosquito's. Rocky is allergic to ivermectin, he is white, he reacts to many medications. And of course you all know that I had two chows die from medication reactions. I have compromised in the past by giving him 1/4 dose of interceptor spaced 45 days apart. Now I'm thinking about not giving him any heartworm meds. The natural rearing breeder of my new pup does not give any heartworm meds. The breeder of my past chows did not give any heartworm meds. But...... there are so many scare stories of 'all the heartwrorm' in the south. 

What is your opinion? Should a raw fed dog with a healthy immune system be able to natural resist heartworm, even in the south? If he ever did test positive, I've heard that the natural treatment could be safer then the monthly dosage of 'preventative' which is actually the same thing. Would you not give heartworm meds if you lived in the south?


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## Rvent (Apr 15, 2012)

I am glad to see you added your opinion to this, I didn't add anything about vaccines because i am just starting to research this as well. I do have to ask where have you learned so much on the topic of holistic meds for dogs, I am dying to learn more, I looked into holistic health care for animals but to my surprise the only people they allow to take these courses are vets and vet students ect. which I find kinda ironic considering most of them are against this or don't promote it (at least where I live) I have just bought some books, spoke to a holistic pet store owner, and have been searching on line.... the differences in opinion on what is best holistically speaking varies so much it is hard to say which way is the best.....now the holistic woman at the store and a few books i read suggest some leafy puree for dogs even on raw, because even though most of us strive for variety there are some things still missing ie: brains, eyes and some internal organs that are hard to come by....and then there are supplements suggested....its enough to make you pull your hair out, so i am at a lose for what is the right diet (raw & veggies) or no veggies, what supplements are needed and what ones are just being pushed on you like vet med or vaccines.... there is so much advise and info it is hard to figure out. Not to mention my vet is a little pissy with me right now, I brought back all the revolution i bought, told him I was going holistic on that and I haven't figured out what course of action I wanted to take on the heart worm prevention, I can guarantee you it is not chemical. oh and lets not forget to mention dear old hubby who thinks I am nuts, because ya know this hocus pocus stuff is not what the vet recommends..makes me just want to smack the taste outta his mouth sometimes. 



Liz said:


> You brought up one of my favorite topics. I will restrain myself - I hope.
> 
> I hate, hate, hate topicals, heart worm medications, flea anything, tick meds, etc. So many dogs get reactions and their owners are told this will pass, it's no big deal, etc. Just because we don't see what is going on in the body doesn't mean it is not affected by these toxins.
> 
> ...


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## Rvent (Apr 15, 2012)

plus I read something about parasites are not suppose to kill their host, their whole purpose is to live off the host..the reason so many dogs die from heart worms and other parasites is a compromised immune system, I do not know if this is true but it sure does sound logical to me


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

I can honestly say no I would not give heartworm. A dog with a good immune system will not be a likely candidate for heartworm. The largest numbers of heart worm cases come through humane societies, rescues and other agencies. These are generally not dogs with great immune systems, loving care and excellent food. There are also some holistic treatments for heart worm that i would much rather use than giving the preventative. Toxic preventative are really a Western idea. Prevention in holistic, chinese and other medicine comes from diet, lifestyle, exercise and balance. I find these are much more valuable and beneficial than man made toxins to prevent illness. I have family in the South and they no longer give topical though i did have to promise to take their dog in case it got heartworm and treat it here.


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## Justapup (Jul 9, 2012)

Liz, I've had perfectly healthy dogs fall prey to Heart worms because I did not give them preventative treatments. I also live in an area where there are a lot of mosquitoes. I use to give my dogs the 6 month flea treatments. And have never had any issues or positive results. Now I am switching over to Trifexis, which again I have had no issues with with the dog I tested it on and so far has prevented not only fleas but intestinal parasites. I will be getting a heart worm screening after 6 months.

Also around here we have to do yearly Parvo/Distemper boosters AND yearly Rabies because these three diseases are very common around here. I do this with ritual because I have seen what happens if you don't. I wouldn't call it a vet scare. I would call it reality.

OP- You need to do what you decide is right for your dogs. You also need to check your laws and see what is required to stay UTD and what not. Also discussing with your vet on better flea/tick treatments as well as heartworm treatments. If they will not give you straight answer, change. There is more then one way to go about this. You don't want to just skip treatments; trust me. Its not worth your dogs health and the thousands of dollars you would be paying treating the illness.


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## Justapup (Jul 9, 2012)

Rvent said:


> plus I read something about parasites are not suppose to kill their host, their whole purpose is to live off the host..the reason so many dogs die from heart worms and other parasites is a compromised immune system, I do not know if this is true but it sure does sound logical to me


This is completely wrong.

Parasites live off a host, yes. But they also CAN KILL their host as well. Example: Heartworms. Do you want to know why heartworms kills dogs? Because they reproduce so much that they start blocking off the main veins to the heart eventually resulting in a heart attack if not treated. Another Example: Tapeworms, which steals the host (doesn't matter what it is) nutrition resulting in a malnourished host that eventually looses weight, causes organ failure and death. And do I need to speak about bacteria which has forms that is also parasites? 

No Parasites do and will kill a host if untreated. Prevention is best to prevent this.


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## Sheltielover25 (Jan 18, 2011)

ustapup said:


> No Parasites do and will kill a host if untreated. Prevention is best to prevent this.


I agree. I prevent fleas and heart worms by putting my pups in their most natural state, boosting their health to the max allowing their body to be in the best condition possible to ward of parasites and such. I don't believe in giving animals (or people) anything that isn't man-made unless we're dealing with extreme things. I don't use anything unnatural in my house and that starts with shampoo, toothpaste, deodorant, soaps, down to what I feed all of us. When I look around at life and see what is around me in terms of natural things such as apple cider vinegar or essential oils and things that natural occur, I wonder why anyone would reach out to a foreign concoction and rely on that over nature. From an evolutionary stand point, I believe everything we need to survive in life is already existing... it's not something created in a lab. Those things created in a lab are considerable more convenient but come with a price to pay...like liver failure or kidney failure overtime. That's my .02 on the matter and my justification for not using any flea medicine, heart worm, or vaccines. My three dogs have no fleas luckily! They'll get one from time to time, but for the most part they stay away because they prefer a host whose immune system isn't so strong.


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

Justapup, the op stated she wanted opinions and I gave mine. You are all welcome to do as you please and feel is right with your dogs. I am allowed my opinion and gave it.  I am glad you have never had a visible consequences to the topicals and such. I do not look down on any one for their choices and would ask the same of others. I also realize it takes a long time to get comfortable with alternatives and some people never will be, that is fine. You should care for your animals and family in a way you are comfortable with and believe in, I am glad you have a care program you feel good about. I feel great about having my animals on a holsitic care and feeding them as naturally as possible.


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

Rvent, I understand your problem. I began studying alternative medicines and natural rearing before my kids were born about 16 years ago. It does take time, study and a lot of listening. I have some books I can recommend to you and some other sites that focus on alternative/holistic/homeopathic care if you are interested just PM and I will get you this info. It is priceless to me. I also have two mentors who have been feeding their dogs raw for over 30 years. Meat, bones and organs. Supplements are added on an as needed basis for medical care or support in the senior years.


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## Justapup (Jul 9, 2012)

Liz said:


> Justapup, the op stated she wanted opinions and I gave mine. You are all welcome to do as you please and feel is right with your dogs. I am allowed my opinion and gave it.  I am glad you have never had a visible consequences to the topicals and such. I do not look down on any one for their choices and would ask the same of others. I also realize it takes a long time to get comfortable with alternatives and some people never will be, that is fine. You should care for your animals and family in a way you are comfortable with and believe in, I am glad you have a care program you feel good about. I feel great about having my animals on a holsitic care and feeding them as naturally as possible.


Correction: I do not use topicals. I use pills.


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## riddick4811 (Nov 2, 2011)

I give my dogs Ivomec once a month year round. We live in FL and I've seen plenty of healthy looking dogs with heartworms. And I've had my own dog who was raw fed and minimally vaccinated get heartworms from not being on preventative from trying to be more natural. 

Small dogs get Comfortis. I have 2 w/ severe flea allergies and it is the only thing that works for them or they loose all their hair and have sores all over their bodies. Big dogs get Advantix applied as needed- mainly for ticks as we spend a lot of time in the woods. 

Vaccines- they only get rabies every 3 yrs as required by law.


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## Rvent (Apr 15, 2012)

I never said I was skipping treatment, I said I was turning to a holistic approach, there where many factors in my decision one being my Max has been sick after starting a spot on treatment, and reading many article published by the EPA of the problems with spot on treatments making dogs sick or killing them, I am not willing to risk my dogs life by using chemicals when there are perfectly safe holistic ways to prevent parasites. And just because your dog appears healthy does not necessarily mean his immune system is not some how compromised, especially if he or she has been pumped full of chemicals for years, don't get me wrong I have used them in the past as well and never questioned that it was the right thing to do, until Max got sick and thousands of dollars and 4 vets had no answers.....took him off the treatment starting giving him stuff to boost his compromised immune system and behold he is getting better.......I only hope that you continue to have luck with your choice. There is plenty of questions being raised on the safety of these chemical treatments including vaccines, not just for pets but for our children as well. the death & illness of 44,000 animals speaks for. itself 




Justapup said:


> Liz, I've had perfectly healthy dogs fall prey to Heart worms because I did not give them preventative treatments. I also live in an area where there are a lot of mosquitoes. I use to give my dogs the 6 month flea treatments. And have never had any issues or positive results. Now I am switching over to Trifexis, which again I have had no issues with with the dog I tested it on and so far has prevented not only fleas but intestinal parasites. I will be getting a heart worm screening after 6 months.
> 
> Also around here we have to do yearly Parvo/Distemper boosters AND yearly Rabies because these three diseases are very common around here. I do this with ritual because I have seen what happens if you don't. I wouldn't call it a vet scare. I would call it reality.
> 
> OP- You need to do what you decide is right for your dogs. You also need to check your laws and see what is required to stay UTD and what not. Also discussing with your vet on better flea/tick treatments as well as heartworm treatments. If they will not give you straight answer, change. There is more then one way to go about this. You don't want to just skip treatments; trust me. Its not worth your dogs health and the thousands of dollars you would be paying treating the illness.


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## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

Mollie the dog is fed raw, doesn't get any flea meds at all and never seems to get flea's or ticks even though we live in FL. Windy the cat is fed kibble (her choice), also doesn't get any flea meds and never gets any flea's either. Don't know why, friends dogs living in the same area do.
Mollie gets heartworm meds (heartgard), I'd love to stop giving it to her, but I'm just nervous. We are in a high heartworm area, lots of mozzies, I'm too scared to risk it. I do once every 5 weeks or so in summer and every 7 or 8 weeks in winter.
They both get the rabies and other shots required by law, except the kennel cough one. I talked to my vet about titers but he was really against it, said they have to give rabies here by law. Maybe I'll push that point again next year.


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

I feel bad for you in the higher incident states. I would be researching like a mad woman to see what alternative are real and what has a history of working really well. There are a number of "healthy" dogs who fall prey to heart worm but it is not usual. Thankfully the owners on this board are smart and willing to research their choices for their pets. I will with what i believe and have been implementing into my own life for many years and that is natural is better. If I have no other, safer, gentler alternative then I will use what my vet prescribes. I wish I had listened to my Grandmother when she talked about natural things, i feel the loss of so much wisdom dearly.


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## Justapup (Jul 9, 2012)

Rvent said:


> I never said I was skipping treatment, I said I was turning to a holistic approach, *there where many factors in my decision one being my Max has been sick after starting a spot on treatment*, and reading many article published by the EPA of the problems with spot on treatments making dogs sick or killing them, I am not willing to risk my dogs life by using chemicals when there are perfectly safe holistic ways to prevent parasites. And just because your dog appears healthy does not necessarily mean his immune system is not some how compromised, especially if he or she has been pumped full of chemicals for years, don't get me wrong I have used them in the past as well and never questioned that it was the right thing to do, until Max got sick and thousands of dollars and 4 vets had no answers.....took him off the treatment starting giving him stuff to boost his compromised immune system and behold he is getting better.......I only hope that you continue to have luck with your choice. There is plenty of questions being raised on the safety of these chemical treatments including vaccines, not just for pets but for our children as well. the death & illness of 44,000 animals speaks for. itself


I'm only responding to the bolded:
Then DON'T use topical treatments. 0o; There are other flea preventatives. Like Trifexis, which is a tablet that helps against fleas, parasites and heartworms.

Also: I don't see the logic where a holistic approach to treating these said things is useful. Animals in the wild which have access to all that they need to keep a healthy immune system have parasites and die everyday from these illnesses.


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## RedneckCowgirl (Oct 28, 2011)

Justapup said:


> Also: I don't see the logic where a holistic approach to treating these said things is useful. Animals in the wild which have access to all that they need to keep a healthy immune system have parasites and die everyday from these illnesses.


Oh geez, not this argument again...


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## Rvent (Apr 15, 2012)

Justapup said:


> I'm only responding to the bolded:
> Then DON'T use topical treatments. 0o; There are other flea preventatives. Like Trifexis, which is a tablet that helps against fleas, parasites and heartworms.
> 
> Also: I don't see the logic where a holistic approach to treating these said things is useful. Animals in the wild which have access to all that they need to keep a healthy immune system have parasites and die everyday from these illnesses.


I started this post to get other peoples point of views, not for it to become a pissing match.... that includes yours, I value all input on these post. lots of people do not understand a holistic point of view and that is fine..doesn't make it wrong or less effective, for me all I know is he has gotten sick from it and contracted anaplasmosis on front line....so there is no guarantee even on preventive meds. Thank you for your opinion on the subject


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

Cowgirl, don't fall prey to this silly argument. I am just very glad that we are all able to make choices for our pets care and that we do so in their best interests. It is sad to see that no other opinion is respected by some. I personally have no issue with traditional meds/care. if you are happy and comfortable with that great! I am not. I really don't know what you want Justapup, i won't apologize for my beliefs and I won't refrain from commenting when an opinion is asked. Again, be comfortable with your choices, I am.


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## Sheltielover25 (Jan 18, 2011)

This isn't the the poster asked about but since you don't understand how a dog taken care of as well as mine with natural remedies wouldn't be affected by ailments that affect the average animal who follows the Western way, it's simple. Animals in the wild don't have access to the kind of food and care mine get. Animals in the wild have to eat other animals in the wild. My dogs eat animals who have been raised on a farm, who have a name, who eat healthy grass and see doctors as they should. They eat animals that have access to clean water and also don't have the stress of living in the wild. My animals don't deal with having to find a place to sleep and not sleeping soundly due to a possible attack. My animal's system is able to become strong and healthy because nothing alters it from the way it should be. That's how we keep fleas away 

I didn't post my answer to tell the poster how to go about caring for her animals, or to tell anyone else. I posted because the point in a forum is to gather opinions and then form your own based on what you pick up to research more and follow. What's right for me, doesn't have to be right for you. But doesn't mean my right is any less substantial than your right just because you don't understand it.


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## Losech (Jul 10, 2012)

I do not use flea/tick preventatives. Why? They are not an issue for me. Yes, they are present, but the dogs rarely ever get one, and if they do, it's a tick from hiking (removed with flea comb before they even bite), or a flea from someone else's dog, which has only happened twice. I know how to control them without the use of pesticides so I see absolutely no use for them in my case.
Heartworm on the other hand, I do use that. But in my area, we've got a very, very, VERY high rate of heartworm cases, so I won't chance not giving them any medications just to save a few bucks. I only do it in the summer though, since it's too cold in the winter for them.

And since it's been thrown around...
Yes, I vaccinate. No, I do not do it every year. 3 year rabies are required by law, I do limited puppy shots, then one distemper/parvo when the dogs are middle age. Nothing more after that (except for 3 year rabies).


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## smaughunter (Apr 27, 2012)

Kiora has never been on Fea/Tick preventative...or at least not since I got her at around 7 or 8 months of age. I live in a dry desert region so I am lucky in that fleas don't thrive in this environment....even before I started trying to be more holistic it just didn't make sense to me to slather my dogs in pesticides when there wasn't a flea to be seen. She has been on heartguard in the summer months but this summer I have only given it to her once. I felt some trepidation when my friends in-laws dog was diagnosed recently with heartworm but the dog in question is an older dog, arthritic and overweight that spends most of her time in the backyard. So I've been going back and forth about the heartguard. I've been favoring the concept of a natural spray to put on her when she goes outside but I am unsure whether that could be harmful to my tarantulas.


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## Savage Destiny (Mar 16, 2011)

This is something that really tears me in two. Well, the heartworm issue anyway. We thankfully do not have fleas around here! We are not "supposed" to have heartworm either, but our weather is changing and we have A LOT of mosquitoes this year. Riddle is six and has never been on heartworm, and Melon hasn't either but... I gave him his first dose of Heartgard last month. I am just SO terrified of heartworm. And I would never be able to forgive myself if one of my dogs got sick or died if I could have prevented it. Riddle won't be getting it since she's not going out thanks to her knee, but Melon will be getting it this summer and I'll probably do it next year too. 

I hate putting chemicals in my dogs, but sometimes I think I just have to do it for their safety. This is one of those times.


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## Jacksons Mom (Jun 13, 2010)

Would never NOT give heartworm medication every month. Don't mess around with that. 

Flea/tick... I go by if I'm seeing a lot of fleas and ticks. I probably use it every other month in the warmer months and spread it out even longer in cooler temps.


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## Rvent (Apr 15, 2012)

Canine Heartworm Disease Information, Prevention, & Treatment just found this very interesting article about heartworms and prevention


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## PunkyPug (Apr 4, 2012)

I have success with Apple Cider Vinegar as a flea, tick and various other biting bugs repellent. I've gotten eaten up by blood suckers and my pug isn't bothered one bit. Yet here I am stamping my feet like a pissed horse.

I've successfully used HeartGard for YEARS on all my dogs.

I'm reading on this thread that a few of y'all seem to be against vaccinations. Does this include rabies shots? Why?


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## PunkyPug (Apr 4, 2012)

Savage Destiny said:


> This is something that really tears me in two. Well, the heartworm issue anyway. We thankfully do not have fleas around here! We are not "supposed" to have heartworm either, but our weather is changing and we have A LOT of mosquitoes this year. Riddle is six and has never been on heartworm, and Melon hasn't either but... I gave him his first dose of Heartgard last month. I am just SO terrified of heartworm. And I would never be able to forgive myself if one of my dogs got sick or died if I could have prevented it. Riddle won't be getting it since she's not going out thanks to her knee, but Melon will be getting it this summer and I'll probably do it next year too.
> 
> I hate putting chemicals in my dogs, but sometimes I think I just have to do it for their safety. This is one of those times.


This is exactly how I feel!


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## JoeynZoey (Apr 25, 2011)

Great posts Liz. I am another individual, who simply does not abide nor believe, that man made chemicals, is ever beneficial in the long run, for both humans and animals. Ever since I have taken it upon myself, to really wake up in a number of aspects, in my personal daily life, that I have never questioned or furthered my understanding/research on, simply because I've been "told" that this is the proper way to treat/approach things, that have to do with your health and well being, my life has changed drastically to all things natural. It's so simple to grasp it all, you just have to understand and value life the proper way and you'll never understand why, this society has simply maintained, as thoughtless individuals, as a whole. 

We have created this society where we believe, everything man made, easy/fast access, mimicked as the "real" thing, all fall under truth or "better for you". Instead of taking the time, as you should with anything in life, to seek research yourselves, rather than absorbing everything without real question to expand in conscious and knowledge that follows from it. We've all become so brainwashed to the point that, we simply can't think for ourselves anymore and the scare/fear tactics are notorious winners obviously, from all those corporations/doctors/vets etc. 

Life just feels so much better when you become consciously aware of what exactly you are doing/eating/& using as apart of your lifestyle, which should always be natural entirely. People and animals have lived for centuries, the way nature has intended them to, so just because this society today, goes against nature in every shape and form, doesn't mean I will intentionally be apart of the lab rats.

So no, I have never used flea & heartworm medications on my 4 year old girl and have simply taken the time, to approach precautions naturally. Nor do I vaccinate for anything other than the bloody law for 3 years rabies vaccine. I think we like to think, dogs look healthy when chances are, they never truly were (weak/poor immune systems by the compromising of a toxic build up).


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## Paws&Tails (Sep 3, 2010)

IMO, there is a place for some flea preventatives. Spike has an extremely severe flea allergy. He itches like crazy, chews off fur, has a bad red rash (a couple times he's made himself bleed, and then has stained white fur for a long time) where he's chewed off all that fur and is CONSTANTLY licking and chewing and he stinks to high heaven. DE takes too long to work and we end up with more than one flea before it works. 

Natural spray on repellents work to a degree, but they don't cut it because it does just that-repell, not kill. The only thing that does work and keeps Spike from becoming a partially furless, itching, stinking, red skinned poor little dog is Comfortis. That stuff works. I also use a spray on natural repellent.

So, IMO, yes I would rather not use it, but when the other option is for Spike to live in misery?? No thanks. I'll take the flea pill.


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## tuckersmom20 (Dec 12, 2010)

My boys get their prevention...

I live in an area where fleas are the most annoying creature ever and will jump on at given chance.
They're everywhere.

When they got fleas last year, I tried DE religiously to get rid of them... No luck. Tried many things... 
Duke was just about fully bald and covered in sores when I had had enough.... Back to a topical.

Yes it's a topical but this is the oNLY chemical that goes into tucks body.
Can't chance him having heart worm especially with his issues.


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

Justapup said:


> Correction: I do not use topicals. I use pills.


Same difference, chemicals either way. One form or another.


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## chowder (Sep 7, 2008)

I just talked to a new vet who tries to practice more naturally and made appointments for Shade and Rocky to be tested at least for their heartworm test. But, after talking with the receptionist, she said they still do not make the interceptor which is the only thing Rocky can actually take since he cannot take ivermectin. It may be a totally moot point for herding breeds or white footed dogs or any dog with the MRD1 gene or drug sensitivities in general as to whether or not you want them to take preventative if they don't actually make any that they can take. 

Getting past the receptionists is always tough. They have set spiels that they have to give over the phone. She wanted me to fax their vaccines records over and of course, they haven't had vaccines in over 3 years except for rabies which is almost 3 years in Rocky. I just said I'd try and left it at that. We'll deal with that issue with the vet in person. I just want the heartworm test and a check up since they haven't been to a vet in a couple of years. I can't help it I have very healthy boys!


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## 9405 (Jun 10, 2012)

to the OP:

I don't like topical products-but so long as its used responsibly it can work fine. Most dogs do fine with the veterinary approved and sold products such as Frontline and Advantage or Revolution. Some dogs do not. There are other alternatives out there though-from internal medicines such as Heartgard (which yes some dogs can't handle the Ivermectin but this is limited to a small number of breeds generally), Interceptor, Comfortis, Trifexis, to name a few. The last two are actually ORGANIC or ORGANIC mixed with a heartworm preventative (interceptor which is NOT ivermectin based). Comfortis and Trifexis contain Spinosad. Spinosad contains two major factors, spinosyn A and spinosyn
D, derived from the naturally occurring bacterium, Saccharopolyspora spinosa which is organic compounds derived from soil microbes. From a few sites I have found-all FDA related: " It is also the most eco-friendly of all the flea control products, and it’s the winner of the Environmental Protection Agency’s Green Chemistry Award. In fact it’s so eco-friendly that the active ingredient, Spinosad, is used to treat pests by certified organic farmers." When it was discovered-it was used by the humans living in the area it grows for the purpose of pest control on themselves. 

In regards to other information brought up here: yes a dog with a healthy immune system will NOT usually get flea infestations. That does not mean they do not still get fleas or can not carry fleas. They still usually have a few on their body picked up by walking around outside-though the fleas life cycle is very short and, once presented with a better subject to live off of, the flea generally will leave the dog or cat. The reason why fleas do not like humans as much is because our bodies are cooler than dogs/cats. If you ever happen to be around a dog who has died and was infested with fleas...you will see the fleas migrate off the body within minutes of death/or just before death-when the body begins to cool. As a vet tech I have found fleas on myself at this time-since given the lack of a host they will find another (although again humans are NOT preferred but given a veterinary clinic environment...they had no real choice). We just showered after work and it was enough.

Having said that, your dogs or cats CAN carry fleas still-just not usually a infestation unless you have a severe problem in your yard or home-or visit a place with a severe infestation. Your pets CAN still carry flea eggs. The flea preventative is to prevent the flea life cycle from beginning on your pet-and resulting in a few fleas living in the homes of the owners. And puppies and senior dogs can have compromised immune systems-puppies this phase usually passes (the weakened immune system) anywhere between 6 months to 1.5 years. This is also why a lot of healthy puppies get demodex mites and then 'grow out of it' usually around 1-1.5 years of age....because their immune system finally kicks in on their own and is strong enough to 'kick' the mites. Demodex isn't dangerous usually-just unsightly as they lose their hair in spots.

As far as heart worms...they exist. Really. It's not a 'ploy'. Anywhere there are mosquito's, there generally is heart worms-as it is carried by mosquito's. It is HIGHLY prevalent in the south and midwest, and portions of the west. The Northeast coast tends to be too cold to carry mosquitos for too long of a time and so heartworms is not very common in the NE and NW coastal areas. Heart worms-once they enter the host (Dogs usually-rarely cats) via the mosquito, then travel in one state in the blood system until they get to the heart-where they then reach another stage in their life cycle and they will reside in the heart. The immune system at this point does not have anything to do with whether a dog is bit by a mosquito that carries the heart worm larvae or not. Do you get bit by mosquito's? And the vast majority of humans have a nice solid immune system... Here is a link to see what states tend to have the most incidences of heart worms: American Heartworm Society 

I worked in Texas most recently....I can promise you if you did not have your dogs on heart worm preventative-it was a matter of time before it did test positive or come in with issues related to heart worms and once we x-ray (and see the enlarged heart, followed by a heart worm test) OR just run a heart worm test...they usually were a very high positive. Note: the test is for microfilaria. Microfilaria are a stage in the Heart worm life and you can not test for heart worms until about 6 months AFTER initial exposure. This is because microfilaria do not exist in the blood until after the heartworm larvae have traveled from the mosquito, lodged in the heart, and grown enough to finish the breeding life cycle...yielding the microfilaria that is currently tested for. Studies show that the average time for this to occur is 5-6 months...it takes about 4 months for the larvae to travel to the heart from the tissue infected, another month or so to grow to adult size, and a short time after they begin bearing microfilaria. If you only give your dog treatment for heartworm 6 months out of the year...you are only treating BACK 6 months. It does not treat CURRENT. This is also why most veterinarians recommend you treat them year round. If you elect season prevention, the medication should be given during the nine months from April 1 to December 1. This will cover the entire mosquito season and its year-to-year fluctuations. Keep in mind that the medication works in retrospect so December’s dose will eliminate November’s exposure.



As for holistic methods-apple cider vinegar DOES work and has been proven-for flea prevention. Understand though that same as OTHER chemical or organic/chemical medicines...some dogs do well on it and some dogs still see issues. Not every animal is the same-same as HUMANS-we all can't take the same meds or have allergies to one med that another does not. I would really really talk to your vet though about other alternatives. If you prefer to find a more holistic veterinarian....look around! They also exist and can help you find something more organic if you prefer for your treatments. 

OP-most of all....read the things here and do your own research as well. What works for one may not work for you-holistic may work fine for some and not for others. Chemical/medical medicines may work fine for one and not for others....and belief systems of one may not be the belief of another.

Use your best judgement...and talk about things with your vet.


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## Celt (Dec 27, 2010)

Before I got the boys, I never used any kind of preventatives. If my dogs got a "epidemic" case of ticks (fleas not really being a problem here), I used a flea and tick shampoo and yard spray (Adams to be exact). But the boys are on heartworm meds because mosquitoes seem to absolutely adore them. They can't go outside without being eaten alive and if one is inside it will go for them first. Nothing I've tried has kept those suckers off, so to make me feel better they get heart worm preventative during mosquito "season". On vaccinations, they get them because they're are a lot of cases of dogs infected with these diseases. Parvo here infects adult dogs as often as young pups, distemper is fairly prevalent as well. We've had 3 cases of dogs (in city) with rabies, and one case of human not to far away, besides which it's also the law and if something happens your dog can be taken for quarantine if you don't have proof it's UTD. But here all of these are 3 year vaccines.


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## shellbell (Sep 24, 2011)

I will ALWAYS give heartworm preventative. That is something I am not willing to risk, and the holistic vet I see says it would be irresponsible of her to tell me I can get by with skipping this. And she is pro-raw, anti-vaccine, etc. I don't even know that she sells heartworm preventative out of her office. My area has an especially high occurrence of heartworm cases. Not going to risk that for my dogs. 

I don't give any type of flea/tick preventative, other than having healthy raw fed dogs.


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## InkedMarie (Sep 9, 2011)

I live in NH. Never had fleas and only sporadic ticks, til last year, when Ginger had fleas. We applied Advantix once last fall and once this spring. I have used Bug Off Garlic with great success for years. Added ACV last year as well. I won't use Advantix unless I have to. I use Interceptor every 40-45 days from May til October. Heartworm preventive is something I will always use. I do puppy vaccines then titer when my holistic vet says to.


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## Savage Destiny (Mar 16, 2011)

I hate how some of the people in this thread (not naming names) are coming off like those of us who do use preventatives are simply too lazy to care about a natural alternative. 

I'm using heartworm preventative, not because I haven't "taken the time" to research, but because I haven't found a single holistic or homeopathic alternative that can guarantee me 100% that my dog won't get heartworm. It's all "they shouldn't get it". I don't like not being certain about something that could _kill my dog_. I don't disrespect anyone who chooses to go a natural route, that's their choice, but I don't like it being implied that I'm too lazy to do research and find what's best for my dog. I did a lot of research, and in this instance I decided that the preventative was the safest route to go. I hate chemicals going into my dogs, but in this case I feel that the alternative (heartworm) is the bigger risk.


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

Wow, I am sorry you got that impression. it is kind of funny in way because that is what is said to me about not using meds, chemicals, etc. so i understand how you feel. The people on this site tend to do their research and know why they are giving these things to their dogs. The sad thing is the general public doesn't. I am glad you have researched and are happy with your care plan for your pup.


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## bernadettelevis (Feb 2, 2011)

first of all, we don't have heartworms here. I haven't even heard of heartworms before i was on this forum. so heartworm prevention is not an issue.

Fleas, he's never had any and i don't use any preventatives.

For ticks i've tried quite a few things. The first year i had him, he had a spot on, but i didn't feel comfortable with it so i started to do some research. Then i tried a natural tick and flea collar which didn't really work. So i went on to putting coconutoil on him before we went on walks, also didn't really work, plus he didn't like beeing rubbed in coconutoil.
Then i read something about amber-necklaces working against ticks and i've tried it. Although he didn't have 0 ticks, he has only had about 2-3 ticks in 3 months so i'm probably going to stick with my amber-necklace against ticks, plus it looks really nice 

He had all his vaccinations when he was a puppy. Then when he was one year old, my vet sent me 3 notes that i had to come and get his vaccinations again, ubt i always forgot or once he had a cold and so on. Then i started to do my research and he will not be vaccinated again. The only thing he will get is rabies when we travel out of austria, because we have to do that.


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## chowder (Sep 7, 2008)

Nothing in life is 100% guaranteed. I began to question what I was being told by the doctors after losing two healthy dog to 'safe' medications, having two perfectly healthy puppies suddenly develop severe allergies and colitis after receiving their puppy vaccinations, and then finding the original FDA report approving Interceptor for heartworm prevention at the rate of .05 mg/lb but finding out they are now prescribing it at over 4 times that original approved dosage. 


Research can prove to be enlightening. I research all medication that my doctors and my vets prescribe to me or my animals. The vets did not think to check Rocky for MDR1 before they gave him Ivermectin, they did not think to check before they OD'd my other chow on Ace/morphine, and they did not think before they put frontline on my white chow and sent him into a seizure. You must do the research for your own animals. 

I may continue to use Interceptor for heartworm prevention since we live in a high mosquito area, but I will use 1/4 tablet every 45-60 during the summer as it was originally deemed safe and not as the package recommends.


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## 9405 (Jun 10, 2012)

Heartworms is not present in alot of Europe that has colder/wetter weather. This is due to the lack of Mosquitos since it is transmitted solely by the mosquito. That is why you don't hear about it. I've lived in Germany, England, and Italy...it was not present until I headed down to south Italy where the weather was more temperate and there were a few mosquitos. Southern Europe, southern Asia, on down does have Heartworms-though with animal care differing in alot of that section of the world, it is rarely tested for. It is known to be present-just not in what quantities.

Great info on the amber necklace...I've never heard of it and will definitely look into it as a potential alternative if I move out of the east coast. If lymes disease wasn't so prevalent here on the east coast I would definitely give it a try! I just am too worried about one tick even. When I moved here, I was a few weeks behind on her tick treatment and she had a 2-3 ticks I found after hiking-the first time I had ever found ticks on her....she tested positive shortly thereafter when I went to get her Lymes vaccine-since in this area it is highly recommended. She had tested negative for Lymes any other time I had checked-every 2-3 years I do a full blood test on her and my other dogs. 

I was unable to even get the Lymes vaccine due to her positive result. So disheartening! She was ill also for a week or so, and now that she has Lymes-she has the potential for occasional flareups, though she has not had one. She still tests positive though I have her levels of Lymes down VERY low with monitoring and careful treatment. Still, I wish there were other options sometimes for tick treatments-though for me spinosad has worked fine-its' not labeled for use for tick prevention (the company didn't pay for the licensing, only for the flea prevention portion) but studies showed it is just as effective...so I use it and a collar if I am taking her hiking somewhere with alot of brush. 

It's actually time for her update on Rabies-since its required, and as she is 9 I'll be having her senior blood profile done again. 

Chowder does make a good point-everyone should always check on any medications/see if there is any outstanding adverse reactions related to breed/etc. Hell, we should do that anyways for OURSELVES when we see a doctor. Good point!


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## Kibblelady (Jul 13, 2012)

Semunky, I do not know why you would think there are less mosquitoes in the NE, I live in NJ on the shore and man we went crabbing last night and got the crap bitten out of me. If I go out in my yard to grill I get the crap bitten out of me lol We have a lot of mosquitoes in NJ.....

I do not use heartworm meds though...and none of my dogs have had that problem, ever. I do use spot ons depending on if the yard has been bad that year or not, you have to have them in your yard basically to have a bad problem with them. Kill them in the yard and everything is much easier


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## starturtle (Jul 12, 2012)

I feel like others have stated as this is difficult for me. I would love to not give chemical prevention to my dogs, but I have always lived in the Southeast and in areas where mosquitoes, fleas and ticks are very common. Up until the last few years I didn't know there were "holistic" options. I am scared to change. So far I have been lucky that my dogs have not had any negative reactions to chemical preventions. There was even a time I used Hartz topicals without issue. My dogs were all on Interceptor until the plant shut down. I held my breath when I switched to an Ivermecton based HW prevention. 

I think until I move to an area where I don't have to use the word "infestation" when referring to mosquitoes, fleas and ticks in my area I will stay with what I know works. Or until I move to a house where the back yard is not a partial forest.

I am curious though if reaction to topicals is breed related? I know a lot of the herding breeds are unable to handle Ivermecton. I wonder if there are certain chemicals in topicals that certain breeds react to more than others.


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## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

Fleas and ticks- 

So far, ticks have been a non-issue for us. I haven't seen a single tick. Fleas, on the other hand... In May my dogs were INFESTED with fleas. Absolutely infested. As in, I could take a flea comb to about 3 inches of Buck's fur and I came out with a comb full of fleas. They came out of nowhere. We tried the holistic approach for two months. I had fleas jumping on me when I was sitting on the couch and I would have dozens jump onto my legs when I would walk across the carpet. Our infestation was just too bad for the DE to take care of. 

I think we went wrong in that we didn't start taking care of the problem before it got really bad. I finally broke down and went out and bought AdvantixII. The third dose will be applied tomorrow and I will finish out the rest of this season with topicals. We also had to bomb our house three times to get rid of them in the house itself. Hopefully, by next spring we will have moved out of this house but, no matter where we are I will start with the DE well before flea season approaches to prevent the fleas from being like this year's. I think it just caught us really off guard because we had NO issues in this house AT ALL last spring and summer. We have been in this house since January 2011. I am hoping that this will be our only season we have to use topicals.

Heartworm-

I was very ignorant about "basic" dog care up until last May when I joined this forum. I lived in hot Southern California and never treated for heartworm. And Dude LIVED outside (not by my choice but it was their house, their rules)! Now, I live in washington where it is freezing cold and rainy 9 months out of the year. This weekend is supposed to be the hottest Washington weekend of the summer and it's only going to be 88-90. I get eaten alive by mosquitos and haven't had a mosquito bite since the beginning of July. I don't feel that it is a big enough risk here to treat for. 

We WERE going to move to Florida but that may not be in the plans now so I would have to put some thought into whether I would treat or not if we did move down there. That would be a tough decision.

Vaccinations-

Dude came from a questionable breeder so I don't know if he ever got his puppy shots or not. The first shots he ever got with me were the beginning of 2011, again, before I joined this forum. He got distemper and rabies (and possibly kennel cough. I can't remember). This year we only gave him rabies. Three years from now he will get rabies as well and three years after that. 

Buck had all of the normal puppy shots both from his breeder and with me because, although I had joined this forum, I had know knowledge of vaccinations. He goes in on the 9th and will only be getting his rabies vaccination. He will continue to get the rabies every three years.

We only vaccinate for rabies because our state, county, and even neighborhood requires it and because I don't feel that society is knowledgeable enough to function with unvaccinated (for rabies) dogs in their midst. I would love to see the rabies vaccine be spaced out by four years rather then three.


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## 9405 (Jun 10, 2012)

Mmmm if you were moving to Florida I would HIGHLY recommend doing some serious research on heartworms and whether you want to treat or not. I know Florida is one of the "hot zones" for heartworms-much like Texas was (Near San Antonio where I lived was huge with heartworms. Just remember to pre-test for heartworms prior to deciding to give any medications! Gots to be clear of the thing before you treat  

North east in general (of the US) is lower in heartworms than the south/midwest/ upper midwest. Yes some portions of the NE coast of the US do still see mosquitos but there are other factors as well: Length of the mosquito season, how severe the season changes are, humidity, and heat all play a big role in whether an area has alot of positive tests. The key thing is that the mosquito season is far shorter-and the infected mosquitos are not up that direction of the US in as many numbers as in the south and midwest/upper midwest. Check out some of the maps though that talk about heartworms and its prevalence (I Think I linked one such map in this thread in a prior post).  Pacific NW, NE coast (Especially upper NE), and portions of the mountain regions in the US are just not known for heartworms due to as I said-the weather and lack of mosquitos/short mosquito season. 

The length of the mosquito season IS a major factor-since if the mosquitos aren't around to bite infected dogs, and become a carrier of the Heartworm microfilaria which mature into Larvae-the only form of heartworms that actually is transmittable from mosquito back into a dog/cat.  Remember it takes about 6 months for the full life cycle of a heartworm to complete: so from larvae in a mosquito, to the dog, to the heart, to adult form, until it begins to breed microfilaria and then back into a mosquito is anywhere from 4-6 months. Need a longer term season to see more incidences of heartworms in a population (Think the hot state of Texas where I lived before...which is temperate in winter). CA tends to be drier, meaning less mosquitos. Water/humidity/heat/and length of warm seasons all play a part in the mosquito life cycle and thus the heartworm. And you need the moisture to stick around more than a few weeks to breed mosquitos (as in the wind off the gulf of mexico bringing that hot humid air from over the gulf, and the drier summer that leaves a lot of standing water to stagnate creating a haven for mosquitos to breed) A vet though could tell you more about your region and the dangers-or just research heartworm incidence's of your area if you want to be sure money doesn't play a role for a veterinarians response. LOTS of maps out there with case incident reporting for each state. 

Anyway-its a personal and medical decision for what works for all of us and our beloved pets! I just LOVE hearing more alternatives. Any other alternative flea/tick treatments anyone can tell me about?


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## PunkyPug (Apr 4, 2012)

Dude and Bucks Mamma said:


> We only vaccinate for rabies because our state, county, and even neighborhood requires it and because I don't feel that society is knowledgeable enough to function with unvaccinated (for rabies) dogs in their midst. I would love to see the rabies vaccine be spaced out by four years rather then three.


I really don't believe it is about society being knowledgeable enough to function with an unvaccinated dog. It is about your dog's safety. Walking outside a rabid animal could come up and attack your dog. Now you are dealing with your dog having a dangerous disease. To me, at that point it isn't completely about wither or not my dog will survive the rabies attack. It is now more of my dog, my best friend, is now hurt and has to undergo whatever to get her better. Hell, Emma go UTI last week and I was upset over that. Emma is basically my child, even tho it was something small that can be fixed with antibiotics I still knew she was in pain and wasn't happy. I also still worried that she had bladder stones. Especially when I took her urine sample a small object came out. I was VERY relived that my vet reassured me that this was bacteria tissue that came out.
I'd rather be safe than sorry with Emma. Why take the chance? Why not give her heartworm pills when they have been proven to prevent heartworm and (some products) internal parasites? Same thing with fleas and rabies. I don't want her to suffer or have ANY discomfort. Being as I cannot have children, I will do my best to give her the best life possible.


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## Chocx2 (Nov 16, 2009)

I'm late to post Liz, but I have to say I feel much better and I think my dogs feel better not vaccinating and no flee or tick stuff I use a liquid garlic stuff for the flee and tick seems fine. But I had a dog in my life time that got heartworm, she lived to 15. Anyway I had read on a holistic site that if your dogs get heartworms there is a holistic treatment and or give them a natural form of arsenic ? I live in FL and give three doses a year to my dogs, only summer but would love not to. Any suggestions? I trust your advice. 

PS I have only seen flees in my area in the low income area of town, I work in these areas and don't have a problem and hope I never do. I use DE in my yard and house.


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## ShanniBella (Jul 1, 2011)

I posted this thread last year and it was made a "sticky" There is a lot of great info and links in my original post on spot on flea treatments 
http://dogfoodchat.com/forum/general-dog-discussion/10212-tis-season-poison-our-dogs.html

I WILL NOT buy into the marketing ploys of commercials and vets who obviously make profit from this poison they allow us to put on our dogs. I also don't use heartworm meds and haven't for years with no issues. I live in Massachusetts (Boston) so mosquitoes and fleas isn't something I have to worry to much about. I love going hiking but this time of year I stay out of the woods and stick to the city streets when walking to avoid ticks. However, I do have friends in the South (Florida, Georgia, NC, SC, etc) who have had no choice but to use the flea treatments and heartworm meds due to high rates of those problems. They have tried using natural alternative methods but haven't had the best luck with them. But they also have dogs that live outside in kennels or are just outside in the yard a lot which doesn't help your dog from getting fleas or the chance for heartworm in those situations. My girl is a house dog and only goes out to do her business and comes right back in.....I also walk her 4-5 miles most days


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## 9405 (Jun 10, 2012)

Chocx2 said:


> I'm late to post Liz, but I have to say I feel much better and I think my dogs feel better not vaccinating and no flee or tick stuff I use a liquid garlic stuff for the flee and tick seems fine. But I had a dog in my life time that got heartworm, she lived to 15. Anyway I had read on a holistic site that if your dogs get heartworms there is a holistic treatment and or give them a natural form of arsenic ? I live in FL and give three doses a year to my dogs, only summer but would love not to. Any suggestions? I trust your advice.
> 
> PS I have only seen flees in my area in the low income area of town, I work in these areas and don't have a problem and hope I never do. I use DE in my yard and house.


I'm aware you are asking Liz for advice.....I'm aware that you probably won't agree with anything I say unless Liz gave it her blessing...but please...please....do not give arsenic ON YOUR OWN in any dose to your dogs. THE Heartworm treatment (The one at your vets) IS arsenic....all of them result in the same thing if it works: The worms in the heart die or are severely damaged. 

HOW they die is part of the problem with any heartworm treatment and why it is unknown if any dog will survive a heartworm TREATMENT (after showing positive for heartworms. This does NOT include preventative.) A good vet will discuss with you the risks of treating a heartworm positive dog. Most with mild cases will do fine....but you ARE treating with POISON-and any dog can have bad reactions. It's not a 100% guarantee that any dog will make it through the treatment. Ever. The worms tend to thrash around in the heart if not killed quickly and even after death cause severe issues. Thrashing around in the heart is not good for anyone-as the worms extend up through the valves and down through the muscles of the heart and out into the exiting aortas. In severe stages of heartworm disease (shown through tests, xrays (To see how enlarged the heart is), and even ultrasound)-a vet wouldn't even advise trying to kill the heartworms due to the risk of death to your dog. They would merely ask you to keep your dog quiet, to not put any strain on the heart, and sometimes to put the dog on a preventative to stop anymore from infecting the dog while waiting a few years for the heartworms to die naturally-though this still brings the SAME risk as it continues to damage the heart while growing, and also while dying.

Post treatment itself if not monitored by a vet is dangerous or you are WELL ADVISED about the potential issues are not without substantial risks after the initial dosaging-should the animal do ok upon treatment. During initial treatment: The animal is given a preventative and a steroid to start killing microfliaria in the blood. Arsenic does not kill the baby worms-microfilaria so you kill BOTH-one with heartworm preventative (like heartgard, sentinal, etc), and the adults via an adulticide: aka Arsenic. One month later the animal returns for the arsenic treatment. It stays for two days and gets two injections in the back muscles-it is PAINFUL. Dogs are frequently given pain medication to help ease them. An animal is also given another steroid to combat any inflammatory response of the arsenic given in injection form-along with a heartworm preventative given orally to help kill any residual microfilaria in the blood. The animal goes home then and the restrictions are MASSIVE:

No....exercise. Absolutely none. LIMITED walking. NO excitement-for several months. Dogs are preferred to be kept in a kennel....kept VERY quiet! You do not want the heart to get excited and have to work hard. As the worms die, the portions break off and are released into the blood system and surrounding tissues. As you can IMAGINE-this is bad if the heart were to be working hard like when exercising, and a large piece were to break off and travel say...to the lungs (Pulmonary Embolism which is irreversible). This is one of the main side effects that occur during treatment. 

A dog is kept quiet up to 6 months.

I hope....I sincerely hope...no one on here would ever ever recommend making your own treatment out of arsenic or any other medication for treating a heartworm positive dog on here. A dog with heartworms CAN live a long life-it just depends on the severity of the disease, how active the dog normally is (dogs with heartworms generally are less active anyway-their heart does not have as much free room to work the muscles and usually are damaged slightly from the worms living IN the heart itself....they cough, are lethargic after exercise, in some cases even show blue mucous membranes due to lack of oxygen-their heart is restricted in motion preventing oxygen rich blood from flowing freely in the body...or sometimes the older worms die and can cause a natural pulmonary embolism (blocking a artery in the lung) and cause other major issues. 6 month after the treatment the animal returns for one last test-if the heartworm test is negative (almost all but the most severe infections are negative after the treatment) then the dog goes on its way and you can resume normal activities and life again. If it is still light positive-the vet usually discusses either another round of arsenic (depending on how stable the dog is physically) or just a slow kill of any residual adult worms via heartworm preventative to keep killing the microfilaria and letting the adults die off naturally. The dog is kept quiet until the 6 monthly performed tests are negative.

Please Choc...I am not Liz but please....do not try to ever treat a pet with heartworms on your own.


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## InkedMarie (Sep 9, 2011)

Chocx2 said:


> I'm late to post Liz, but I have to say I feel much better and I think my dogs feel better not vaccinating and no flee or tick stuff I use a liquid garlic stuff for the flee and tick seems fine. But I had a dog in my life time that got heartworm, she lived to 15. Anyway I had read on a holistic site that if your dogs get heartworms there is a holistic treatment and or give them a natural form of arsenic ? I live in FL and give three doses a year to my dogs, only summer but would love not to. Any suggestions? I trust your advice.
> 
> PS I have only seen flees in my area in the low income area of town, I work in these areas and don't have a problem and hope I never do. I use DE in my yard and house.


I'm confused. You read somewhere that dogs can have arsenic to get rid of heartworms....then you say you give three doses a year. Are you saying you give three doses of arsenic or three doses of heartworm preventive?


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

There are various forms of natural heart worm treatment. Personally I would get a homeopathic vet to go through just because each remedy is for a different situation. There are preventative type herbs you can use without worry but to treat an actual case of heartworms I would personally get the diagnosis from my vet, the severity and then go over the holistic treatments available and decide which plan is best suited to that particular dog, at his age, health and severity of his case. There are many things we can do for preventatives and to boost the immune system. 

Arsenic is not my personal choice for heartworm. There are many options available that are safer and easier to dose. 

i will PM you details I have so you can investigate and talk to your vet -especially a holistic vet and decide if they are viable for your area.


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