# Science Diet new formula at Tractor Supply



## riddick4811 (Nov 2, 2011)

Not sure how new, but first time I've seen them. Never really pay much attention to Science Diet. 

They have these formulas at my Tractor Supply, called Ideal Balance. 

Not the greatest in the world, but different for SD. 

They had 2 grain free, this one and a chicken one and then 3 different chicken grain inclusive diets regular, large breed, and small breed. 

Salmon GF

Salmon, Potatoes, Yellow Peas, Pea Protein Concentrate, Potato Starch, Chicken Fat, Chicken Meal, Chicken Liver Flavor, Lactic Acid, Dried Beet Pulp, Flaxseed, Vegetable & fruit blend (Green Peas, Apples, Cranberries, Carrots, Broccoli), L-Lysine, Iodized Salt, Potassium Chloride, Choline Chloride, vitamins (Vitamin E Supplement, L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), Niacin Supplement, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin A Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin Supplement, Folic Acid, Vitamin D3 Supplement), Taurine, minerals (Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite), Mixed Tocopherols for freshness, Phosphoric Acid, Beta-Carotene, Natural Flavors.

Protein	25.0
Fat	20.0
Carbohydrate (NFE)	47.8
Crude Fiber	1.1


Small Breed 

Chicken, Brown Rice, Whole Grain Oats, Whole Grain Barley, Brewers Rice, Chicken Fat, Chicken Meal, Pea Protein Concentrate, Dried Beet Pulp, Flaxseed, Chicken Liver Flavor, Lactic Acid, Vegetable & fruit blend (Green Peas, Apples, Cranberries, Carrots, Broccoli), Potassium Chloride, Iodized Salt, Choline Chloride, vitamins (Vitamin E Supplement, L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), Niacin Supplement, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin A Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin Supplement, Folic Acid, Vitamin D3 Supplement), minerals (Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite), Taurine, Mixed Tocopherols for freshness, Phosphoric Acid, Beta-Carotene, Natural Flavors.

Protein	22.5
Fat	17.6
Carbohydrate (NFE)	52.6
Crude Fiber	1.7


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## Georgiapeach (Jan 24, 2011)

Amazing what public pressure does for one of the "big guys"! I guess they had to jump on board to regain some of the market they've been losing lately. It's still not a great food, but at least it's better. I'll pass.


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## FBarnes (Feb 17, 2013)

They are so deceptive. It is incredibly irritating how they put salmon and chicken as the first ingredient when in reality after they cook it down it will fall on the ingredients list, leaving FOUR grains in the top spots. Well, and potatoes and peas too. I'm not sure what a dog gets from potatoes except starch.


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## Unosmom (May 3, 2009)

slightly improved crap is still crap.. no thanks


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## DaViking (Sep 27, 2011)

These two formulas illustrates something interesting. Note how they have pretty much the same amount of carbohydrates as many of the Acana formulas which are 40 to 60% carbs. Remember carbs are much more than just starch, NFE just means Nitrogen Free Extracts and is what Acana measures too. Added vitamins and minerals are the same. Non starchy functional plants and other botanicals are questionable since there are little to no evidence that the small amounts added to pet food have much impact compared to feeding it as a supplement in a higher dosage and secondly, they are digested poorly and produce more waste. So, what are Hills up to here? What they have done is to include much less functional plants and botanicals but more plant protein concentrates which in turn serves as protein source number 2 (or 3), as compared to Acana. So to compare it to many Acana formulas, the main difference is the use of plant protein concentrates instead of a #2 (or #3) meal. The rest of the profile is very similar, same carbs but less non starchy plants and botanicals. I don't think these two formulas are anything to be upset over. They are not the greatest foods out there but neither is Acana. It boils down to if you believe plant protein concentrates are a good option to balance the overall amino acid profile. Plant concentrates comes with some advantages but personally I believe you can achieve the benefits of those advantages by carefully selecting better quality animal products, which probably costs a little more.

Bottom line, they get a meh from me. If you want to feed it go right ahead I am not gonna judge you, there are many other foods that are worse or much worse.


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## RawPitbulls (Feb 7, 2013)

No way would I feed that.


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## Sapphire-Light (Aug 8, 2010)

I know Hill's foods aren't the best companies or have high protein or meat contents, or be all grain free, etc, but after all what happened at Diamond plants last year I trust more Hills tan Diamond in terms of safety.

So this might be an option for people who don't have a high budget to get this instead of ol'roy , pedigree, dog chow, etc


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## PDXdogmom (Jun 30, 2010)

DaViking said:


> These two formulas illustrates something interesting. Note how they have pretty much the same amount of carbohydrates as many of the Acana formulas which are 40 to 60% carbs. Remember carbs are much more than just starch, NFE just means Nitrogen Free Extracts and is what Acana measures too. Added vitamins and minerals are the same. Non starchy functional plants and other botanicals are questionable since there are little to no evidence that the small amounts added to pet food have much impact compared to feeding it as a supplement in a higher dosage and secondly, they are digested poorly and produce more waste. So, what are Hills up to here? What they have done is to include much less functional plants and botanicals but more plant protein concentrates which in turn serves as protein source number 2 (or 3), as compared to Acana. So to compare it to many Acana formulas, the main difference is the use of plant protein concentrates instead of a #2 (or #3) meal. The rest of the profile is very similar, same carbs but less non starchy plants and botanicals. I don't think these two formulas are anything to be upset over. They are not the greatest foods out there but neither is Acana. It boils down to if you believe plant protein concentrates are a good option to balance the overall amino acid profile. *Plant concentrates comes with some advantages but personally I believe you can achieve the benefits of those advantages by carefully selecting better quality animal products, which probably costs a little more.*
> 
> 
> Bottom line, they get a meh from me. If you want to feed it go right ahead I am not gonna judge you, there are many other foods that are worse or much worse.


Very much agree. And I'll add that unless a manufacturer discloses the meat percentages of a product, we have no reliable way of determining which of two products (with the same guaranteed analysis) has the higher meat content - unless the inclusion of a plant-based protein booster (e.g. corn gluten meal, potato protein, pea protein, canola meal, etc) as a main ingredient gives it away.


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## doggiedad (Jan 23, 2011)

how is it grain free when it contains oats and barley?


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## Felix (Oct 9, 2012)

doggiedad said:


> how is it grain free when it contains oats and barley?


The first one listed is the only one that is grain free. They have a GF option and also a grain inclusive option as well. Still wouldn't feed it tho, hate SD.


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## InkedMarie (Sep 9, 2011)

I've seen better and worse. I wouldn't feed it. I know people who think any grain free is better than any grain inclusive and IMO, that's not the case.


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## monster'sdad (Jul 29, 2012)

I would use it over most of the foods talked about on here. Real scientists, that have fed millions of dogs over decades formulated those products. Full battery of testing including blood, urine, fecal, palatability, etc. 

There is no subsitute for that.


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## PDXdogmom (Jun 30, 2010)

monster'sdad said:


> I would use it over most of the foods talked about on here. Real scientists, that have fed millions of dogs over decades formulated those products. Full battery of testing including blood, urine, fecal, palatability, etc.
> 
> There is no subsitute for that.


Yes, all their knowledge and ability to test is a good thing that not all companies do. It's just too bad that they don't go the extra step and provide more of a meat-based formula rather than relying on a plant protein booster (in this case it's pea protein concentrate) as a primary ingredient.


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## DaViking (Sep 27, 2011)

To me this is about cutting corners versus price. I personally don't like products that cut corners while asking a premium price, be it by adding cheaper plant protein concentrates or by reducing the standards while adding more animal products. If you ask less that's ok because you are being somewhat honest about it. If you ask top dollar it's not ok imho and from that point of view I don't see the big difference between these new SD formulas and many other brands more in vogue. Adding, say 10 or 20% more animal sources, doesn't justify a lifelong exposure to elevated ash levels and poor digestibility. Just my $0.02


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## mewlittle (Mar 18, 2013)

I do not like Hills and they been around for a long time everytime my pets eat it they get sick


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## TTs Towel (Jul 10, 2012)

FBarnes said:


> They are so deceptive. It is incredibly irritating how they put salmon and chicken as the first ingredient when in reality after they cook it down it will fall on the ingredients list,.


This is really funny. A couple years ago people used to point out how all of the "great" kibbles had meat as the first ingredient. When people (that think for themselves) would point out the water content thing to the kibble elitists they would scoff and note that Hill's didn't have meat in the first 3 or 4 ingredients. 

If Hill's were to come out with the most perfect, grain free kibble that contained organic meat and all of the right ingredients the kibble elitists would still find something to complain about.


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## FBarnes (Feb 17, 2013)

TTs Towel said:


> This is really funny. A couple years ago people used to point out how all of the "great" kibbles had meat as the first ingredient. When people (that think for themselves) would point out the water content thing to the kibble elitists they would scoff and note that Hill's didn't have meat in the first 3 or 4 ingredients.
> 
> If Hill's were to come out with the most perfect, grain free kibble that contained organic meat and all of the right ingredients the kibble elitists would still find something to complain about.


I guess it would depend on whether it was raw meat they were weighing, and where it was on the ingredients list. If Hill's came out with a good kibble I know alot of people would be grateful, because so many vets prescribe it and people are feeding their dogs a horrible food based on expert advice.


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