# Malcolm



## BoxerParty (Nov 9, 2011)

So...

The GOOD news re: Malcolm is plenty:

1. He's up to 53.5lbs! (an all-time high for him, so we're officially past the point of adding back the weight he lost over Xmas)
2. He looks FABULOUS.
3. He's eating 8 proteins: chicken, turkey, duck, fish, beef, pork, lamb, and venison. He's also started onto liver with no issues. :cheer2:

See his fantastic condition:










The BAD news?

1. He is ITCHY. (This has been ongoing since at least late January - no worse, no better.
2. He is losing hair - this was a problem immediately after Xmas when he had lost a bunch of weight, but recently I've noticed hair loss along his spine/ribs. IF it were only in places where he is scratching, I'd think it was from scratching, but clearly it's not.

Background: 

-->He started Raw in early October. He was on Honest Kitchen over Xmas because he was at boarding - during that time he lost 8-9lbs. We started back at the beginning with raw early January, no trouble since. 

-->He was given a skin scraping Feb 10th - totally clear. He was given antibiotics for bacterial dermatosis at that time due to a rash on his belly - rash has since cleared up. 

-->He did have demodex in the early fall, but had the 2 negative skin scrapings to confirm it was gone, plus this most recent one to rule out a recurrence. 

The question in my mind is this: is the hair loss a normal Raw detox thing? Or is there something missing from his diet? 

OR do I assume that the itching and hair loss are related, despite the fact that a) itching has been ongoing, while the hair loss along the spine/ribs is newer, and b) hair loss is in areas that he cannot scratch, so can't be caused by scratching.


*sigh* I think he's trying to make me crazy


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## monkeys23 (Dec 8, 2010)

Has he ever been tested by a dematoligist for environmental allergies? His itchies may not be all food related if he's a sensitive guy...

I bet he is still detoxing, he hasn't really been on full raw all that long. Give it time. Being started on organs finally will probably help since they are jam packed with so much goodness.

Also its a real dry time of year. I know I'm itchy and dousing myself in lotion... imagine how critters who can't do that feel... I'd be scratching too if I were them!


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## monkeys23 (Dec 8, 2010)

And also, he looks lovely in that pic! Nice job!


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

he looks good...

add some fat.
add some sardines, real ones
add some fat.
add some coconut oil
add some fat. 

you could do the seed mix i did...which worked on bubba....but adding in fat cubes worked better.

the seed mix was equal parts of:

flax seed, pumpkin seed, sesame seed and sunflower seed....ground up enough to break the hulls or shells and for your dog, a teaspoon a day on his food.


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## Makovach (Jan 24, 2012)

magicre said:


> he looks good...
> 
> add some fat.
> add some sardines, real ones
> ...


Are fat scraps okay? I know the market we go to by the place we are moving, the guy cuts his steaks and trims the fat and pitches it into the trash. I'm sure if I left him a container he would throw it in there for me for free. I was just thinking its something I may like to keep around for later.

Malcom is looking great! 
I don't have much advise on the itchies/hair loss. Annie and Tucker are itchy, and Tucker has hair loss (a patch on his side, his chest and slow balding areas on his legs). but they are on kibble. I wish you luck!


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## twoisplenty (Nov 12, 2008)

Hmm this is a hard one. He could have allergies to one of the proteins you are feeding or it could be environmental. I would also seriously increase his Omega-3's and add in Vitamin E

This is the dosage for Salmon Oil:

1000 mgs of oil per 30 pounds of body weight for a healthy dog

1000 mgs of oil per 20 lbs of body weight for a dog recovering from an illness or surgery

1000 mgs of oil per 10 lbs of body weight for a dog with a chronic illness

Also you should give 200mgs of Vitamin E per 1000mgs of Salmon Oil


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## Elliehanna (Jan 16, 2012)

he is looking good, I hope Goren will follow him in weight gain! I was wondering about pork skin for adding fat (saw it at the asian market)

anyhow about the itching, could it possibly be mange? other than that I am not sure, I would do a skin scraping to rule it out if ya having already, and if ya have maybe do another one I have read that sometimes its not seen in the 1st or even 2nd,3rd, or 4th scraping. I hope you figure it out so he can get the itching under control


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## Donna Little (May 31, 2011)

All my guys seemed to go through a period of looking dull and I was also wondering what the heck but literally they each hit the 5 to 6 month mark and their coats suddenly seemed to change. All of mine are silky, glossy, any thinning fur has grown back in, and the ones that have always suffered with allergies no longer have that musty smell to them. So, I'd say give it some time. I also started using the seed mixture Re was talking about but added coconut oil around the same time so I think that has really made a difference. I'd highly recommend it. 
And btw, Malcolm looks amazing! :thumb:


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## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

magicre said:


> he looks good...
> 
> add some fat.
> add some sardines, real ones
> ...


I'm with Re. I recently discovered that Buck's hair loss and itchiness mirrored Bubba's and Malia's (Re's dogs). I bought beef fat trimmed off of steaks from our butcher for 25 cents a pound. The itching is already starting to go away and I am eagerly waiting for the day his hair starts growing back in. It's only been a couple of weeks.


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## liquid (Dec 28, 2011)

Makovach said:


> Are fat scraps okay? I know the market we go to by the place we are moving, the guy cuts his steaks and trims the fat and pitches it into the trash. I'm sure if I left him a container he would throw it in there for me for free. I was just thinking its something I may like to keep around for later.


Fat scraps are perfect


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## Unosmom (May 3, 2009)

Do you feed him any eggs? free range are best(higher omega 3/vit e content), plus it contains all b vitamins and are great for skin and coat


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## BoxerParty (Nov 9, 2011)

Unosmom said:


> Do you feed him any eggs? free range are best(higher omega 3/vit e content), plus it contains all b vitamins and are great for skin and coat



He's just started getting eggs...I'm sure he would happily eat more.



Re, great suggestions as always. I will up the fat content for him. He does get sardines a few times a week, and more coconut oil and meat fat is totally do-able. 


I will add the salmon oil and vitamin E as twoisplenty suggested - he is already getting a few pumps of salmon oil each week, but no Vit E. 


I don't suspect a protein allergy in this case - the itching began before I started introducing new proteins, and he wasn't having any itching issues before Xmas. It very well could be environmental allergies.


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

liquid said:


> Fat scraps are perfect


I have been buying pork back fat. Big chunks of fat! perfect!


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

BoxerParty said:


> He's just started getting eggs...I'm sure he would happily eat more.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Personally I don't think a "few pumps a week" will do him good (well maybe some). Gunner gets a few pumps a day! 

Try upping that and go from there. I just increase Gunners fat intake and his salmon oil intake. I give him a few chunks of pork back fat and 3 pumps of salmon oil as well.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

i keep reading that when giving salmon oil, one needs to give vitamin e with it, but not from mixed tocopherols, which is soy based...

my dogs did not do well, neither of them....on salmon oil, so i had to find other ways....

first i tried the seed mix and even included veggies, certain ones...

the seed mix worked...as well as adding emu oil.....

then i realised i was feeding very lean meats...and cutting the fat off their meats or meals as if they were human.

so i started saving fat from lamb and beef and whatever i was trimming for me. 

and voila. 

fur. soft, luxurious fur. in places where there wasn't.

no more bald penis. no more bald eyes. no more bald chest.

fat. it's what's for dinner.

eggs, too...although we feed quail eggs.


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## BoxerParty (Nov 9, 2011)

Sprocket said:


> Personally I don't think a "few pumps a week" will do him good (well maybe some). Gunner gets a few pumps a day!
> 
> Try upping that and go from there. I just increase Gunners fat intake and his salmon oil intake. I give him a few chunks of pork back fat and 3 pumps of salmon oil as well.



Yeah, I was going easy on the salmon oil during the re-transition we've been doing so that I could be 100% what was causing any problems we encountered. I'll start giving him the full daily dose.


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## BoxerParty (Nov 9, 2011)

magicre said:


> i keep reading that when giving salmon oil, one needs to give vitamin e with it, but not from mixed tocopherols, which is soy based...
> 
> my dogs did not do well, neither of them....on salmon oil, so i had to find other ways....
> 
> ...



I'll have to sort out how much fat they're really getting. I don't feed much chicken skin because my raw-feeding vet advised against it (out of, as the Supreme Court likes to say, "an abundance of caution" - she's seen a few raw-fed Boxers end up with pancreatitis, so doesn't recommend feeding the skin to this breed :noidea: ). 

They are getting some fattier cuts of things like pork and lamb, but I suspect they're not getting a whole lot of fat relative to the amount of lean meat. I'll call my local butcher to see if I can score any fat trimmings from him to add to their meals.


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## Unosmom (May 3, 2009)

> Personally I don't think a "few pumps a week" will do him good (well maybe some). Gunner gets a few pumps a day!


I agree, I dont feed a lot of fatty meals (uno doesent do well on pork), so he gets 7-8 pumps of salmon oil a day, plus eggs 4 days a week and seameal powder.


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## creek817 (Feb 18, 2012)

I've never used it, but my best friend has been telling me about using Apple Cider Vinegar for skin problems.

"ACV has been used successfully for dry, itchy or infected skin problems. If applied topically to wounds and burns it will decrease the pain and promote healing. It also controls minor bleeding from cuts and abrasions. Apple pectin, a water-soluble dietary fiber found in apples and ACV, binds to toxins in the body and assists in their removal while it may also help relieve diarrhea and constipation. And lastly, it may lower cholesterol levels and improve heart health. ACV should not be used internally for those dogs that have irritation of the mucosa (lining) of the intestinal tract."

Apple Cider Vinegar for Dogs by Alicia McWatters

I think you're supposed to mix it with water (that site has instructions I think) to apply it topically.

Might be worth a try! Good luck!


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

lest i gave an inaccurate impression, i'm not talking about a meal of fatback...

i take whatever trim of fat i have and cut them into 1/2 inch cubes....given the size of the dog.

he gets them every other day or when i remember.

i no longer trim his food...i think that's what helped the most.

plus, he does get emu and coconut oil....

so does malia and her fur is back and thick and beautiful.

bubba is taking a little longer but his belly is not bald anymore...i have pics of his baldness in a thread...i'll see if i can find it.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

http://dogfoodchat.com/forum/raw-feeding/6363-malia-bubbas-hair-seems-thinning-7.html#post69508

this is when we realised my dogs were going bald...especially bubba.

this is what they looked like when we started the seed mix

http://dogfoodchat.com/forum/barf-alternative-feeding/11272-plan-bubba-bald-4.html


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## BoxerParty (Nov 9, 2011)

magicre said:


> lest i gave an inaccurate impression, i'm not talking about a meal of fatback...
> 
> i take whatever trim of fat i have and cut them into 1/2 inch cubes....given the size of the dog.
> 
> ...



So what you're saying here is that I SHOULDN'T have given Malcolm a full 10oz meal of beef fat this morning? :shocked:


:lol:


Fear not, dear Re, I am not so easily led astray.  I'll see about getting some fatty trim from the butcher and add a little bit to his meals.


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

With Gunner, I make sure he gets the trimmings from anything, and the trimmings I take off of Mikeys. Mikey gets some fat but not the ammount that Gunner does. Gunner also gets about 1/4 lb of fat in each meat. His meal is about 2 lbs a day.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

a lot of people never had this problem as i did......transitions were perfect....or dogs had iron guts.

i was over zealous....who me? 

and over fed right from the start with two dogs who had just gotten over giardia and were still recovering....giving them twice the amount of food they needed because that's what i was advised to do.....

did not do my own research...but oh well....

and then forgot to add back in the fat.


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## BoxerParty (Nov 9, 2011)

magicre said:


> a lot of people never had this problem as i did......transitions were perfect....or dogs had iron guts.
> 
> i was over zealous....who me?
> 
> ...



Well, I don't know about you, but it wouldn't be my life if I didn't make every possible mistake due to a paradoxical combination of overthinking and poor impulse control. :lol: 

Actually, now that I think of it, my dogs' raw diet started going really well right around the time that I started back on ADHD meds and therefore had much better impulse control...interesting.


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