# OMG i'm so happy!!!!!



## leilaquinn (Sep 7, 2011)

So I've tried EVERYTHING to get Luigi to eat organs, I have only been sucessful by shoving liver down his throat, which, tolerant guy that he is, he accepted, but he looked heartbreakingly betrayed by the whole thing. So tonight I slowly dehydrated pork kidney and beef liver in the oven, with the oven door ajar and at 200 degrees. I made a big fuss over tricks required to get a piece (even the rarely used roll over) and HE ATE IT!!!!!!! I just about cried. I think i left it in the oven a little too long, the only stuff he spit out was incinerated. I am so happy, but my house smells a bit like pee pee from the kidney (I do not blame him, I gagged chopping liver and kidney)


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## Kat (Jul 12, 2011)

Yay that's good to hear


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Thats awesome!!! Glad that you've found an alternative!


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## Filth (Oct 5, 2011)

leilaquinn said:


> So I've tried EVERYTHING to get Luigi to eat organs, I have only been sucessful by shoving liver down his throat, which, tolerant guy that he is, he accepted, but he looked heartbreakingly betrayed by the whole thing. So tonight I slowly dehydrated pork kidney and beef liver in the oven, with the oven door ajar and at 200 degrees. I made a big fuss over tricks required to get a piece (even the rarely used roll over) and HE ATE IT!!!!!!! I just about cried. I think i left it in the oven a little too long, the only stuff he spit out was incinerated. I am so happy, but my house smells a bit like pee pee from the kidney (I do not blame him, I gagged chopping liver and kidney)


Hmm...interesting. 

As far as I know wolves didn't get a chance to bake their meat in the oven. Isn't that right RFD?


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## Love my lab (Dec 9, 2010)

no wolves wouldn't find dehydrated liver or kidney, nor would they find cheese, yogurt or rice which you feed. But if she can get the dog to eat organs even if they are dehydrated that is better then not eating them at all correct?


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## KittyKat (Feb 11, 2011)

Is the nutrient content the same for dehydrated as opposed to just raw pieces of liver? I've been feeding Piper dehydrated liver as treats but thought it wasn't good enough....


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

Filth said:


> Hmm...interesting.
> 
> As far as I know wolves didn't get a chance to bake their meat in the oven. Isn't that right RFD?


Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do, don't ya think?


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## pogo (Aug 28, 2011)

Filth said:


> Hmm...interesting.
> 
> As far as I know wolves didn't get a chance to bake their meat in the oven. Isn't that right RFD?


Seriously?!?! I don't think you have a leg to stand on with that comment, and needs must.


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

Filth said:


> Hmm...interesting.
> 
> As far as I know wolves didn't get a chance to bake their meat in the oven. Isn't that right RFD?


Yep, thats exactly correct, Filth. However sometimes you have to take unusual steps to get something started. The OP can gradually decrease the dehydrating over time until they are eating them raw. We often have to trick our dogs in the beginning to get them to eat something they are not used to.


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

KittyKat said:


> Is the nutrient content the same for dehydrated as opposed to just raw pieces of liver? I've been feeding Piper dehydrated liver as treats but thought it wasn't good enough....


No the nutrient content is not the same but in a case like this, its something to get them used to the taste. You would gradually decrease the amount of dehydration until the dog is eating completely raw.


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## Filth (Oct 5, 2011)

Love my lab said:


> no wolves wouldn't find dehydrated liver or kidney, nor would they find cheese, yogurt or rice which you feed. But if she can get the dog to eat organs even if they are dehydrated that is better then not eating them at all correct?


Sure.  That was my point 



naturalfeddogs said:


> Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do, don't ya think?


Of course. 



pogo said:


> Seriously?!?! I don't think you have a leg to stand on with that comment, and needs must.


Oh I do...I have two very strong legs. 



RawFedDogs said:


> No the nutrient content is not the same but in a case like this, its something to get them used to the taste. You would gradually decrease the amount of dehydration until the dog is eating completely raw.


I agree. Whatever way you change meat it gets poorer then it is raw. Nothing compares to raw meat.


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## Filth (Oct 5, 2011)

RawFedDogs said:


> Yep, thats exactly correct, Filth. However sometimes you have to take unusual steps to get something started. The OP can gradually decrease the dehydrating over time until they are eating them raw. We often have to trick our dogs in the beginning to get them to eat something they are not used to.


I agree with you at all. My point was that your theory of "dogs not changed a bit from wolves" sometimes doesn't work. This certain dog should not refuse to it raw meat, if "nothing changed". That's why I said wolves did not bake there meat. Cause this person has to bake it, which is exactly adjusting to to your dogs needs(that have changed, otherwise dog would eat it raw at first).


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Filth said:


> I agree with you at all. My point was that your theory of "dogs not changed a bit from wolves" sometimes doesn't work. This certain dog should not refuse to it raw meat, if "nothing changed". That's why I said wolves did not bake there meat. Cause this person has to bake it, which is exactly adjusting to to your dogs needs(that have changed, otherwise dog would eat it raw at first).


If the dog had been eating raw as he should have, from birth, he would never have this problem. humans caused the reluctance to eat the raw food.

I don't think most dogs have any reluctance - my 13 year old dachshund slurps up raw liver like crazy, and I doubt she ever tasted it for the first 13 years of her life.


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## CavePaws (Jan 25, 2011)

Filth, wolves never had someone throwing beautiful, gourmet meals into a bowl for them either. The fact is, our dogs are a sub-species of the grey wolf. They are nearly one in the same as far as their internal organs work. However, the way they interact with humans is entirely different. We have thousands of years of evolutionary experience with this species. They were the first domesticated animal. It does not come as a surprise that some of us cater to our dogs - like you, preparing those elaborate and colorful meals for your pack. 

When I first started out organ meat was very difficult for me to transition one of my picky eaters on to. She would eat anything slow baked. I eventually decided to start searing the outside of it very lightly on low heat for her to eat. This helped a lot. The real deal maker, however, was freezing the OM and then cutting them into small pieces. Even still she is picky about certain types of liver. Pork liver in particular turns her off completely still, while emu liver is like a delicacy!


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## pogo (Aug 28, 2011)

Filth said:


> Oh I do...I have two very strong legs.


:bored: :bored:


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## Filth (Oct 5, 2011)

xellil said:


> If the dog had been eating raw as he should have, from birth, he would never have this problem. humans caused the reluctance to eat the raw food.





CavePaws said:


> Filth, wolves never had someone throwing beautiful, gourmet meals into a bowl for them either. The fact is, our dogs are a sub-species of the grey wolf. They are nearly one in the same as far as their internal organs work. However, the way they interact with humans is entirely different. We have thousands of years of evolutionary experience with this species. They were the first domesticated animal. It does not come as a surprise that some of us cater to our dogs - like you, preparing those elaborate and colorful meals for your pack.
> 
> When I first started out organ meat was very difficult for me to transition one of my picky eaters on to. She would eat anything slow baked. I eventually decided to start searing the outside of it very lightly on low heat for her to eat. This helped a lot. The real deal maker, however, was freezing the OM and then cutting them into small pieces. Even still she is picky about certain types of liver. Pork liver in particular turns her off completely still, while emu liver is like a delicacy!


Exactly. For a 15 thousands years living with human kind dogs have changed. All I wanted to say here and all I wanted to say on my topic also. 

Adjust to your dogs needs. Cause they have changed from their ancestors in many ways.


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

My transitioned to raw dogs had issues with organ but my weaned onto raw pups would eat any organ they could get a hold of. The pups eat naturally froom day one and organs are part of that, kibble (or other) fed dogs don't learn that as all their nutrients are cooked or baked together - the taste is foreign. That does not negate their wolf digestive system -


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

My dogs didn't have too much of an issue with organs at first, but I did have to freeze it and feed it slightly defrosted for the first year of raw feeding. Now they happily eat it totally defrosted, warm however I want to give it to them. Bison and lamb liver are the staples here, along with bison k and lamb kidney. Nummy!


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Filth said:


> Exactly. For a 15 thousands years living with human kind dogs have changed. All I wanted to say here and all I wanted to say on my topic also.
> 
> Adjust to your dogs needs. Cause they have changed from their ancestors in many ways.


It's not a matter of do they like it. It's a matter of whether their digestive system is set up to process it. Just because we feed our dogs cottage cheese and they love it doesn't mean they are fundamentally changed.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

whiteleo said:


> My dogs didn't have too much of an issue with organs at first, but I did have to freeze it and feed it slightly defrosted for the first year of raw feeding. Now they happily eat it totally defrosted, warm however I want to give it to them. Bison and lamb liver are the staples here, along with bison k and lamb kidney. Nummy!


My dogs eat anything no matter the texture, temperature, or taste - it's ME that freezes some guts and feeds it half frozen because the ick factor of something like raw spleen is hard for me to stomach. And I half freeze liver because it's so slippery it's hard to handle. 

Thank God I don't actually have a digestive system to eat that stuff. I kind of stand in awe of what they think is a tasty morsel.


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## Imgliniel (Sep 1, 2011)

I had to partially cook to get lucy going on organs too. What I did was take a block of frozen liver, put a few drops of oil in a skillet, and drop it in for like 30 seconds on each side, it would make the very outside brown and kinda krispy while leaving the majority of it raw. and down the hatch it went without hesitation! haha We are getting it less and less seared and I hope to eventually not have to do it at all, but it works for now.


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## leilaquinn (Sep 7, 2011)

I sure didn't think, this would start an argument I would vastly prefer to have little to no contact with liver or kidneys ever again. I was a vegetarian for 11 years, and while i do eat meat now, I've never seen or touched organ meats, short of disecting a cow lung in 6th grade, and I honestly do not blame Luigi for being grossed out. He has eaten kibblefor a year and a half of his life, and I would be suprised if some of the new things I'm throwing at didn't give him pause. He has had no digestive upset so far, though he gets very dry dusty poop easily. because of this I've already added tons of variety, though he hasn't been eating raw very long. He is LOVING it, he ate a whole branzino like a champ the other night after just a few minutes of looking at me like i was nuts, but but most of what he's been eating is stuff i've tossed him peices of, raw or cooked, since he was 12 weeks old (beef pork, chicken, fish, etc.) so while it wasn't his dinner before, it wasn't unfamiliar either. i never have or will eat liver or kidney raw or cooked, and come on, it's slimy and smelly and smooshy. i'm sure if he'd grown up in the wild with a pack of wolves he would have eaten what was available, to survive and may have even loved elk liver from puppyhood:yuck:, But he has know since he's been with me that if food is ignored today more will come tomorow, he will not starve to death if he is a little picky. People will eat what they can get in a survival situation, it doesn't mean they will eat a frog cooked unseasoned over a camp fire if they can order a much more palitable pizza. There are foods that i hate that my husband loves, they are eaqually biologically appropriate for each of us, i just hate apples, I don't like the taste... 

I hope this is a stepping stone for us, a way to get him used to organs until we can taper down to a light sear or, much more preferably, raw. For the record, I also give him banana, watermellon and grapefruit if I'm having some, because he loves them. i don't think liking the taste of pink grapefruit better than the taste of raw pig kidney is very suprising, regardless which is more biologically beneficial for him.


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## Filth (Oct 5, 2011)

xellil said:


> It's not a matter of do they like it. Just because we feed our dogs cottage cheese and they love it doesn't mean they are fundamentally changed.


Nobody said so. 



xellil said:


> It's a matter of whether their digestive system is set up to process it.


I don't know what you mean by "set up to" process for example cottage cheese, but what I know is that dogs CAN process it. Today's dogs can digest it and can absorb ingredients from it. That is a fact. Their digestive system is primarily designed to process meat, but meat is not the only ingredient it can process(whether they like those ingredients or not, it doesn't matter).


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Filth said:


> Nobody said so.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know what you mean by "set up to" process for example cottage cheese, but what I know is that dogs CAN process it. Today's dogs can digest it and can absorb ingredients from it. That is a fact. Their digestive system is primarily designed to process meat, but meat is not the only ingredient it can process(whether they like those ingredients or not, it doesn't matter).


Well, you did. Did you already forget? in fact, that was your original argument - dogs have changed. I really don't think you know WHAT you want to argue, you just like to disagree.

I will say it again - feeding dogs dehydrated food is NOT necessary because they have changed. They haven't.

Now, you can tell me again they have changed, I will tell you they haven't, and you will say no one said they did. And we can start this all over again.


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## Filth (Oct 5, 2011)

You misunderstood me. This "nobody said so" was meaning that I don't mean they have changed just because they like to eat it. That is not an argument, and I agree with you there. But I'm still telling you that they have changed, and that argument is not based on "what they like to eat", it is based on "what they can digest and absorb today, and what brings some changes to their health and look(that is not meat), and that wolves couldn't, or didn't have a chance to digest and absorb".

I don't want to argue, I just want to talk and discuss things with the other party whom I respect. Maybe some discussions will seem like they will never end, but I don't see nothing wrong or evil in that. Try not to set yourself negatively at the beginning, and you will have no reason to blame someone for arguing later.


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## malluver1005 (Nov 15, 2009)

Filth said:


> I don't know what you mean by "set up to" process for example cottage cheese, but what I know is that dogs CAN process it.


Not mine. I tried BARF a looong time ago and Aspen got the runs with cottage cheese every single time.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

The two dogs that were raised on kibble are the two who don't like organs in my house. The dogs switched to raw as pups are our "garbage disposal" dogs who will pretty much eat anything, organs included. I think it just comes down to how particular dogs are raised as well as their personal preferences. Some dogs just don't like organs- but they don't know what's best for them. Which leaves it up to us humans to make sure they get everything they need. 




Filth said:


> I don't know what you mean by "set up to" process for example cottage cheese, but what I know is that dogs CAN process it. Today's dogs can digest it and can absorb ingredients from it. That is a fact. Their digestive system is primarily designed to process meat, but meat is not the only ingredient it can process(whether they like those ingredients or not, it doesn't matter).


Dogs may be able to digest the proteins in cottage cheese and other dairy items, but dogs ARE lactose intolerant because they do not have lactase to be able to break down the sugars in dairy products from cows. This is the reason why goats milk is used as a milk replacer for nursing puppies. Because dogs lack this enzyme, this tells me that they really aren't supposed to be eating dairy from cows, or even goats for that matter.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Filth said:


> Exactly. For a 15 thousands years living with human kind dogs have changed. All I wanted to say here and all I wanted to say on my topic also.
> 
> Adjust to your dogs needs. Cause they have changed from their ancestors in many
> 
> ways.


So.. what you are really saying here is that dogs have changed? Seems like the implication was they have changed because of what they have been fed - if not, i misunderstood. 

I suspect if we gave dogs cottage cheese 15,000 years ago, they would have eaten it just fine, like they do today. We just didn't have it.


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## leilaquinn (Sep 7, 2011)

Well, last night I tried a little peice of beef liver, still slow cooked/dehydrated in the oven but not as long, leaving it still a bit soft and damp, and no go. He also wanted nothing to do with the beef heart I gave him for dinner, which he has eaten and seemed to like before. He just looked sad and cried a little while I took the skin off of the salmon i was having for dinner. I have always given him salmon skin, he LOVES salmon and so do I so he gets it fairly frequently. I realize I have a stubborn dog that could slowly manipulate me into feeding him ribeye and snow crab (which I also have shared with him a few times) I put his salmon scaps away and ignored him. After about 20 minutes he gave up, ate his heart, and i praised him and let him have his few ounces of salmon for dessert. i may eventually have to do a much more drawn out version of this in order to get him eating recognisable organs. I've read that some of you guys have offered the same meal for days at a time in order to get over pickiness, I hate the idea, he is even rowdier and more hyper when he's hungry, but he is stubborn and that might be the best course of action.


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