# Colitis Issues



## meggels (May 30, 2010)

Murph has been having some issues with colitis for almost two weeks now. 

For reference, Murph had been on Northwest Naturals frozen raw (beef) and doing GREAT.

I am 99% sure it started almost two weeks ago when I fed him 3 meals of Nature's Variety dehydrated raw (beef) that I had picked up right before Hurricane Irene just in case we lost power. I had it sitting around (since we never even lost power) and decided just to use it up.


Big mistake. That started loose stools, which after two days or so, turned into loose stools with mucus and blood from straining. Called the vet and my nutrition guru and both told me bland diet of hamburger & rice with probiotics and if it continued, he'll need medicine and a fecal test. 

His stools were getting a little more solid, but still very loose as of this weekend. Nutrition guy told me to put him back on raw because hamburger & rice isn't a complete diet and he can't be on that for too long. 

He had his normal Northwest Naturals raw last night and this morning, and this morning, we are back to complete liquid cannon butt. 

I called the vet and asked for some metronidizol (sp?) or flagyl (sp?) to pick up on Saturday, and said I would also drop off a fecal sample.

My question now is...what do I feed him? Do I keep him on the raw? Do I go back to hamburger and rice? Or I was thinking of putting him on Natural Balance for a few days since I have samples (I rep for them) and it's a good (simple!) food for digestive issues. Then, once I get back to normal stools, put him back on the raw?

Umph, I just want him back to normal, wonderful, tiny raw poopies.


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

I think all he needs is some bone. I would feed him nothing bur chicken backs for a week and all will clear up well before the week is up. If you can't find backs, get some quarters (unenhanced quarters). He looks like a pretty small dog so you may have to cut quarters up some for him. Bone will firm him up pretty quickly.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

what about wings? 

also, there is bone in his northwest naturals.


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

Wings would be good as would necks if they are the appropriate size for your dog and I think they probably are. Are there real bones or ground up bone in the NW naturals? I don't think ground bone has the came constipating effect as real whole bone.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

Ground up, but big enough that you see tiny flecks in the cubes. 

He's a 20.5 lb frenchie. Every butcher I've called in the past needed to buy like 40lb bulk boxes of necks, so that won't work, hence my question on wings since I know i can get those at the grocery store  

Oy. I dunno what to do though. This poo is gross ;-X


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

Wings are fine. I feed my cats drumsticks because they are cheaper. Thighs would probably work too. I would get the cheapest of those 3 things. Seems hot wings have driven up the cost of wings.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

Are hot wings okay?








Kidding


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## catahoulamom (Sep 23, 2010)

Wings have a higher bone content than drummies, I think, so if you don't mind paying the price go ahead for the wings. If not I'd get some drumsticks and trim some of the meat off and give it to Abigail! Good luck.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Honestly Meg, you know what I'm going to tell you already. 

Cut the premade crap out and feed whole raw meaty bones. 

Chicken wings are a great place to start, try to remove as much skin as possible (its a pia). Just give him one chicken wing the first day and see how he does. 

If you're paranoid about him choking, smash it up with a hammer or kitchen mallet a bit first.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

i'm reading the ingredients in the food you're feeding....



> Beef, Beef Heart, Beef Liver, Ground Beef Bone, Broccoli, Carrots, Beef Kidney, Romaine Lettuce, Apples, Ground Flaxseed, Salmon Oil, Apple Cider Vinegar, Blueberry, Cranberry, Inulin, Dried Kelp, Potassium Chloride, Sodium Chloride, Ginger, Parsley, Garlic, Zinc Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Vitamin E Supplement, Copper Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Mixed Tocopherols (as preservative), Vitamin D Supplement. CA/PH 1.68/1 36%DMB


one thing that automatically jumps out at me is ground flaxseed....if given once in a while, it's fairly benign...

but, if fed every day, it has a cumulative effect and is a bowel irritant....actually, flax is a great laxative....so are apples, if you eat them daily....and carrots....but it's a build up kind of thing...

i think that's why people get surprised when their dogs are doing great great great and then not great.....the dog's system has hit that level and it's no holds barred...in this case, diarrhea or loose stools or liquid....

if you're going to feed a premade....then i would have to suggest you get a premade that is protein and bone. and get one that is protein, organ and bone, so you can combine the two.

or close your eyes, take a deep breath and give him a drumstick or back.....


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

It's not the choking I'm worried about. He's had duck necks a few times and did okay. Horked it up a few times before swallowing, but he ate it. 

It's that I have no freezer space in a studio apartment that is TINY.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

I could also get Vital Essentials, which does not have the veggies and fruits and flaxseed. But this is what he was losing weight on before:

Beef, beef tripe, beef lung, ground beef bone, beef liver, beef heart, beef kidney, beef blood, beef fat, herring oil (a natural source of vitamin D), d-alpha tocopherol, mixed tocopherols, (a natural antioxidant), natural vitamin E.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

meggels said:


> It's not the choking I'm worried about. He's had duck necks a few times and did okay. Horked it up a few times before swallowing, but he ate it.
> 
> It's that I have no freezer space in a studio apartment that is TINY.


Linsey had a freezer in her living room when she was in a little apartment. It just became another piece of furniture. Get rid of something to replace it with a small freezer.


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## tem_sat (Jun 20, 2010)

meggels said:


> It's that I have no freezer space in a studio apartment that is TINY.


For a dog who is 20.5 lbs, you are talking about approximately 1/2 lb of food per day. You could buy a 10 lb tray pack of chicken drumsticks and that would last you about 3 weeks. You do not even need a full size freezer to accomodate that amount of food. If absolutely necessary, a tiny portable fridge set to a very low temp to maintain the meat's frozen state will do the trick.


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## CavePaws (Jan 25, 2011)

You could put a cloth over it and make it a side table?


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

meggels said:


> I could also get Vital Essentials, which does not have the veggies and fruits and flaxseed. But this is what he was losing weight on before:
> 
> Beef, beef tripe, beef lung, ground beef bone, beef liver, beef heart, beef kidney, beef blood, beef fat, herring oil (a natural source of vitamin D), d-alpha tocopherol, mixed tocopherols, (a natural antioxidant), natural vitamin E.


the kidney, the liver...on a daily basis will give your dog the runs....they are organs and should be fed as approximately 10%...if you're feeding twice daily or even once daily a full meal with these ingredients, the organs alone will give your baby the liquids...

you don't need a freezer. you shop once a week...if you're dog only weighs 20.5 pounds, you're not feeding much more than 6 ounces a day...
you can shop weekly....and pick up the proteins you need....or as natalie, said, get a small 3 cu. ft. freezer and turn it into an end table...

colitis is just an inflammation of the colon from repeated loose stools....getting metro or flagyl will do harm, not benefit....

if you want, get some slippery elm bark in capsules from your local super supplements or whichever one you have and that will coat the stomach and intestinal lining, giving it a well needed rest...

but if you keep feeding that food....it will just come back again, i'm sorry to say.


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## minnieme (Jul 6, 2011)

CavePaws said:


> You could put a cloth over it and make it a side table?


lol, we are of one mind today! I was just gonna say that!


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

magicre said:


> the kidney, the liver...on a daily basis will give your dog the runs....they are organs and should be fed as approximately 10%...if you're feeding twice daily or even once daily a full meal with these ingredients, the organs alone will give your baby the liquids...
> 
> you don't need a freezer. you shop once a week...if you're dog only weighs 20.5 pounds, you're not feeding much more than 6 ounces a day...
> you can shop weekly....and pick up the proteins you need....or as natalie, said, get a small 3 cu. ft. freezer and turn it into an end table...
> ...


What about the fact that this only started when I gave him the NV? 

I will begin looking into getting a tiny freezer. I don't mind a small one. Just need to see how much it will cost.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

meggels said:


> What about the fact that this only started when I gave him the NV?
> 
> I will begin looking into getting a tiny freezer. I don't mind a small one. Just need to see how much it will cost.


well, you did change foods....when i used to change foods, my dogs got the runs....or loose stools...

and then you changed them back and the perfect storm was created for what is happening now.

an irritation from the nv got worse when the organs were overfed... 

it isn't something to beat yourself over. you're trying to feed raw. it's just that what you're feeding is true of many pre mades...they simpy aren't balanced for YOUR dog, because all dogs are different...

and once the colon gets irritated, it stays that way until the culprit is removed.


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

Check Craigslist.com for a used freezer ... it may take a while to find a very small one but in the mean time you can get along without one temporarily.


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## tem_sat (Jun 20, 2010)

meggels said:


> What about the fact that this only started when I gave him the NV?
> 
> I will begin looking into getting a tiny freezer. I don't mind a small one. Just need to see how much it will cost.


Unless you are getting an unbeatable deal, the tiny freezer is bound to pay for itself in a short time via the money savings you will incur by not purchasing overpriced, commerical pre-made raw.

Check out the neat fridge/freezer options from Walmart: http://www.walmart.com/search/search-ng.do?search_query=compact+freezer&ic=16_0&Find=Find&search_constraint=0


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## chowder (Sep 7, 2008)

Here is a little 5 cu ft chest freezer that will hold 99 pounds of food but is only 27"x23"x34" big. That could almost fit in a closet .

Frigidaire - 5.0 Cu. Ft. Chest Freezer - White - FFFC05M3LW

As far as the premade raw.....you may have seen in past posts of mine that Chelsy gets horrible bloody colitis on the pre-made raw like NV. It's something in the veggies and fruits that sets her off terribly. I happen to grind her food, but she can eat real raw just fine. The last time she got sick was when I tried some Stella and Chewy's that I got as a free sample. I thought she'd be okay because there was no salmon or flaxseed (the two biggies with her) but she still got horribly sick. Now I just stick to plain old meat. Nice and simple.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

Haier chest freezer

that looks good.

just wonder how the heck I'd move it....if it's heavy.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

Also, gonna fast him tonight and then start wings or something tomorrow...


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

meggels said:


> Haier chest freezer
> 
> that looks good.
> 
> just wonder how the heck I'd move it....if it's heavy.


we use an inexpensive hand truck.....no household should be without one


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

Okay so I lied and gave him a 4oz drumstick tonight :-X They were on sale for 99 cents a lb at the grocery store. He did well. I am uploading a video, hoping you guys will take a look....


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

Here is the video of him eating his first raw meal  Would love any tips/suggestions if it could go more smoothly....
http://s59.photobucket.com/albums/g282/meg31829/Murphy/?action=view&current=MyMovie.mp4

And sorry it's sideways....



And....if you don't want to hear my obnoxious narration, mute your computer


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

That is SOOOOO freaking cute!!LOL 

(I do find, with Brody at least, that NOT talking to them tends to help them not gulp!:wink

And Abby says DAMN IT MOM GIVE ME REEEEEAAAAALLL FOOD!!!!LOL


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

Breakfast this morning was a drumstick  He did great. I didn't talk to him and just sat several feet away and watched. I cut it in half towards the end so that he would have an easier time though. 

He did get skin because I put it down, went, "oh sh*t I forgot to take off the skin!" grabbed a knife and was slicing it off and he grabbed the damn skin and swallowed it before I even could take it away!


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

he did great.....

he didn't swallow it whole!!!!!


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

I love the sound of him crunching the bones LMAO. Hence my "YEAAAAAAH' in the video. Obnoxious mother coaching him on.

He did even better this morning and knew to start crunching right away. 

ALSO! The best news of all? Solid little nugget poos this morning


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

i had visions of you wearing a cheerleader outfit, pom poms and all.....just rootin' for your home town team....it was fun to watch him eat his first drummie and even funner to listen to you coach....

i'm glad he's doing well....frenchies and pugs are not so far apart...it's not that they are sensitive....they just know what they want to eat LOL

....your other dog is gorgeous too...maybe one day you'll switch her to raw, too.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

*sigh*

maybe someday.

my budget is soooo tight right now. luckily with natural balance my job gives me a voucher for 30lbs of dog food a month, and she does well on anything, so that will have to work for now


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

hey, you do what you gotta do.....


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

Sooo his stool last night and this morning was a bit soft. And mucosy. 

I'm thinking I need to make sure I get off as much skin as possible....


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

meggels said:


> Sooo his stool last night and this morning was a bit soft. And mucosy.
> 
> I'm thinking I need to make sure I get off as much skin as possible....


That is TOTALLY normal!:smile:

I would keep at it how you are, and it will even out....that is what I did for Brody and what I had my Mum do for both Hub and Jazzy!:biggrin1:


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## frogdog (Aug 10, 2011)

I do not know how I missed this thread until now. Love Murph! Enjoyed watching his first raw dinner and you cheering him on. :cheer2:Yogi has been doing great and hope Murph does as well. I know some have their opinions about our Frenchie breed but I sooo LOVE them!!!


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

"a bit soft. And mucosy." sounds like pretty good progress to me. Keep doing what you are doing. Don't worry if it takes a couple of days. You will see a lot of "mucosy" in the early days. I still see it sometimes and never worry about it. I think its just a kind of lubrication to help it through the system easier.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

i agree with the others...a little soft and a little mucosy is normal....just keep cheering murph on....


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

thanks guys.

interesting...last night he had firmer nugget poo's and this morning, again, softer and runnier lol. seems like he flip flops. 

picking up some wings tonight. stop & shop has them for 1.99/lb on sale. i'm a total dork now and am scouring all the chain grocery stores for the best deals lol.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

I think maybe you're a true raw feeder now, and there isn't looking back from here on out :thumb:


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

DaneMama said:


> I think maybe you're a true raw feeder now, and there isn't looking back from here on out :thumb:


I know lol  I've joined the cult  

He was havin trouble with his drumstick this morning. He wasn't tryin to crunch the bones. He loves it though. He loves to nom nom nom on the raw bones


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

Sorry, more questions :-X 

1) Gave him his first wing tonight. Seems bonier than a drummy, hopefully firm up his poo? I coudln't get all the skin off (what a pain in the ass the skin is!) but I got at least 50% off. Should this be ok? 

2) He crunched it a few times, and swallowed the whole damn thing at once!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i couldn't believe it. I turned around to stir what I was making for dinner and I look back and it's just....gone. Should I be worried?

3) How do bone in thighs compare to drummies and wings? A good option to look at?


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

1. Yes, probably so.

2. Nope

3. thigh = 21% bone ... drumstick = 33% bone ... wing = 46% bone


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

another question, sorry guys :-X



Early morning while sleeping he threw up a small piece of bone (thin, bout an inch long). Should I be concerned?


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

meggels said:


> another question, sorry guys :-X
> 
> 
> 
> Early morning while sleeping he threw up a small piece of bone (thin, bout an inch long). Should I be concerned?


it's not uncommon for newly transitioned dogs to regurgitate some bone. sometimes you'll see it in his bowel movements....

generally, it goes away or happens infrequently.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

okay, cool  

he's so good at it, it's blowing my mind. and i love hearing the crunching  

better poo's this morning.

thanks RFD for the breakdown on bone percentages. I only ever make boneless skinless chicken breasts for MYSELF lol, so these different body parts are a little foreign to me 

Thanks for all your help guys, I appreciate it so much. So does the little piglet


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

just thought i'd report back....

he puked again *just yellow foamy bile, no bone* this morning at the same time, around 5am....


he had perfect little poo's last night and this morning though


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

Sounds like hunger puke. Those will go away in time. Don't worry about them.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

that would make a lot of sense Bill.

Before he was on PMR style, he would get fed at 5-5:30am because it was already in a dish and i could place it down and be done with it quickly. I let them out to pee at 5am and we go back to bed until 7-7:30 when I wake up for work, and that's when I skin his chicken wing and let him eat it.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

meggels said:


> that would make a lot of sense Bill.
> 
> Before he was on PMR style, he would get fed at 5-5:30am because it was already in a dish and i could place it down and be done with it quickly. I let them out to pee at 5am and we go back to bed until 7-7:30 when I wake up for work, and that's when I skin his chicken wing and let him eat it.


that's what we do with our dogs....they go out for a mini walk with honey and then they come back to bed with me....both of my dogs got hunger pukes when we started. it's rare but every once in a while, bubba still gets them.


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