# Where are all the calories in Primitive Natural from? (reply from Earthborn Holistic)



## channeledbymodem (Dec 25, 2008)

As some of you may have noted the Earthborn Holistic kibbles appear to be extremely high in calories and I wrote the manufacturer asking why:

Ron Ross wrote:


At over 700 calories a cup, I think PN may be the highest calorie kibble I've ever seen. That's fine. I'm sure many of those calories are derived from the higher percentage of meat the formula includes.

However, looking at other quality grainless kibbles I find they have the same percentage of protein and fat but far fewer calories per cup. So where to all the calories in PN come from?

PN:

Protein 38%
Fat 20%
717 calories/cup

Orijen adult:
Protein 38%
Fat 17%
460 calories/cup
"Calories in ORIJEN are distributed to support peak health with 38% from protein, 22% from fruits and vegetables, and 40% from fat."

Evo Turkey & Chicken (has even higher protein and fat than PN yet still less calories)
Crude Protein (min) 42%
Crude Fat (min) 22%
537 calories/cup

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I received this reply, which seems to explain the discrepancy:

I finally have the calories for the new Earthborn formulas. We originally listed 'gross calories' per kilogram and per cup on t he website. This represents the total calories found in any food. We have now changed to metabolizable energy (M.E.) calories which is required by AAFCO. Metabolizable calories represent what is nutritionally available to the dog for good performance and health so our Primitive Natural is now changed as well. Primitive Natural is 445 kcal/cup, Coastal Catch is 440 kcal/cup and Great Plains Feast is 430 kcal/cup.

Cindy Montgomery
VP, Marketing
Midwestern Pet Foods, Inc.

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I don't know why a company would choose an alternative method of calculating calories but it seems that "in the eating" the products are mainstream after all.


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## Unosmom (May 3, 2009)

Thats great, thanks for updating us, I was curious about the same thing and since Uno is prone to packing on lbs, I was very hesistant about trying this food. Now I may keep it in my rotation


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## cast71 (Sep 16, 2010)

That's fuuny I emailed them about max calcium/phosphourous levels and this is what I got so far from Cindy;0) 

Primitive Natural:
Calcium, not less than 2.45%, Phosphorus, not less than 1.50%

Great Plains Feast:
Calcium, not less than 1.50%, Phosphorus, not less than 1.10%

Coastal Catch:
Calcium, not less than 1.30%, Phosphorus, Not less than 1.0%

I responded asking for the max levels and she is going to check on it. I'll post the reply. Great plains and coastal catch might be good for LBP's


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

Thanks for responding. That would explain why I fed my dogs the usual amounts but they never really gained weight. 

They did well on it, so I have a 28lb bag for my hound mix. My frenchie did great on it too but he has issues with yeast infections so until I get his yeast issues under control, he is not going to be on any foods with potatoes in it


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## _Trish (Jan 31, 2011)

Where is he having problems with yeast.. in his feet, facial folds, ears?


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

_Trish said:


> Where is he having problems with yeast.. in his feet, facial folds, ears?



Ears and feet


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## _Trish (Jan 31, 2011)

We were having this problem with Kirby, a diet change did help, but he was still occasionally having issues with his feet, so we soaked them in a mix of warm water, epsom salt, and raw unfiltered apple cider vinegar, and we also bought Zymox Otic with hydrocortisone for his ears. After I dried his feet when they were done soaking (I asked each paw for 5 minutes, in a tupperware container.. luckily he's very tolerant), I applied Animax ointment inbetween each toe, and made sure he didn't lick it off.


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## cast71 (Sep 16, 2010)

Great Plains Feast has no potatoes and nutrisca is also potato free. Try adding more meat and feed less kibble. Also clean his ears and feet with extra virgin coconut oil, it's an antifungal.


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## _Trish (Jan 31, 2011)

Oh, yes I forgot to add that Kirby gets 1000mg of cold water fish oil daily, as well as 2 tsp. of extra virgin coconut oil, I buy the coconut oil from GNC, and the fish oil from Whole Foods.


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## cast71 (Sep 16, 2010)

I also give EVCO 1 tablespoon 5 days a week. It has the right omeaga 3 to 6 ratio;0) Also good for dogs with yeast problems. I only use a few supplements in my house, and it's one of them;0) Here's a decent price on a large tub. Nutiva Certified Organic Extra Virgin Coconut Oil -- 54 fl oz - Vitacost


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## DarDog (Sep 6, 2010)

> Primitive Natural:
> Calcium, not less than 2.45%, Phosphorus, not less than 1.50%


Holy Calcium! :shocked:


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## Jacksons Mom (Jun 13, 2010)

This food looks pretty good, but they sell it nowhere near me.


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## cast71 (Sep 16, 2010)

You can buy it online. $39.99 with $4.95 flat shipping regardless of quantity. No more coupons allowed.

Earthborn Grain-Free Dog Food and other Earthborn pet products on sale at DoggieFood.com


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

cast71 said:


> Great Plains Feast has no potatoes and nutrisca is also potato free. Try adding more meat and feed less kibble. Also clean his ears and feet with extra virgin coconut oil, it's an antifungal.



I'll look into it....but I think most things in grain free foods (peas, tapioca and potatoes) want to be avoided with yeast problems because apparently the higher on the glycemic index, the more sugar, the more yeast, etc...

I talked with a rep from Nzymes, who has a section on approved foods. I also found info from a website. I was thinking of ordering their yeast removal kit in a month or so...

But thank you for the options, I will look into those as well. How did that procedure work out for you?


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

_Trish said:


> We were having this problem with Kirby, a diet change did help, but he was still occasionally having issues with his feet, so we soaked them in a mix of warm water, epsom salt, and raw unfiltered apple cider vinegar, and we also bought Zymox Otic with hydrocortisone for his ears. After I dried his feet when they were done soaking (I asked each paw for 5 minutes, in a tupperware container.. luckily he's very tolerant), I applied Animax ointment inbetween each toe, and made sure he didn't lick it off.


Where do you find raw unfiltered apple cider vinegar? Supermarket? Also with the Zymox Otic w/ hydrocortisone, a pharmacy?


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## cast71 (Sep 16, 2010)

You can feed both as well. Good for yeast overgrowth. You have to dilute the ACV in water or mix it into wet food. The dosage varies on size. My dog weighs 85 lb.s and he gets 1 tablespoon of EVCO and 2 tablespoons of ACV 5 days a week.

Nutiva Certified Organic Extra Virgin Coconut Oil -- 54 fl oz - Vitacost

Bragg Organic Raw Apple Cider Vinegar -- 32 fl oz - Vitacost


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## KC23 (Nov 17, 2010)

I buy my raw apple cider vinegar at the grocery store. You might need to look in the organic/health section though--that's what I have to do as it's not with the regular vinegars. Make sure you get the ACV that says it has "the mother" in it. Bragg is what you want to look for, but you can usually find a generic too. I have bought EVCO at The Vitamin Shoppe, and I also bought some at Vitacost.com (they carry ACV too). I even saw it on the shelf at Walmart (food section--near the other cooking oils). Any healthfood store in your area should carry both products too. I know that you can go to Amazon.com for the Zymox Otic if you can't find it in your area.


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