# Not sure what to do



## malluver1005 (Nov 15, 2009)

Aspen's been on raw for about 1.5 years with really no problems at all, other than diarrhea here and there. A couple days ago he had the squirts, so I fasted him the next day and problem solved. He was good for about 4 days after that. It happened again a few days later, so I fasted him and again, problem solved. A couple days went by and no problems. He JUST did it again about 30 minutes ago. This morning he ate a chicken drumstick with a chunk of boneless beef. I really don't know whether to fast him or take him to the doctor. I'm getting kinda worried as he's been doing this for about a month now. I haven't taken his temp but he seems totally normal. Any suggestions?


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

do you know if you fed a certain protein before the squirts? 

maybe enhanced chicken?

it wouldn't hurt to take a fecal in, just to be sure it's not a parasite...

when we discovered slippery elm bark, it became the go to choice for this kind of thing....and i keep it on hand.

have you noticed any pattern to this? or does it seem random...?


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## malluver1005 (Nov 15, 2009)

magicre said:


> do you know if you fed a certain protein before the squirts?
> 
> maybe enhanced chicken?
> 
> ...


The meat he gets is not enhanced and, I forgot to mention, I took a fecal sample in, about a week ago, and had it sent out and came back negative.

I haven't noticed a pattern really.


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## malluver1005 (Nov 15, 2009)

Current temp is 100.1


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## Ania's Mommy (Feb 8, 2009)

Hmmm... seems like the pattern is that it is better after he is fasted. What are you feeding when he goes back on the food? Have you kept to the same protein for a few days after fasting?

I know that Aspen get's hot in the summer. Have you cut his activity level? If so, maybe this is a simple case of over feeding.

Poor fella!


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

thanks for asking that, richelle.....also, didn't aspen have surgery recently? it's going to take a bit to get all those drugs out of his system...and isn't it hotter than hades where you are, too?

maybe it's heat squirts...if there is such a thing...

does it happen, maybe after exercise?


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## malluver1005 (Nov 15, 2009)

Ania's Mommy said:


> Hmmm... seems like the pattern is that it is better after he is fasted. What are you feeding when he goes back on the food? Have you kept to the same protein for a few days after fasting?
> 
> I know that Aspen get's hot in the summer. Have you cut his activity level? If so, maybe this is a simple case of over feeding.
> 
> Poor fella!


I think you might be right. I have cut his activity level a bit, since his surgery and because of the summer, and I was still feeding the same amounts. Guess I will just give him a chicken drumstick tomorrow morning and see what happens...


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## malluver1005 (Nov 15, 2009)

magicre said:


> does it happen, maybe after exercise?


No, it's really random.


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## malluver1005 (Nov 15, 2009)

magicre said:


> isn't it hotter than hades where you are, too?


It's been pretty cool here lately, around 75-80.


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## Ania's Mommy (Feb 8, 2009)

malluver1005 said:


> I think you might be right. I have cut his activity level a bit, since his surgery and because of the summer, and I was still feeding the same amounts. Guess I will just give him a chicken drumstick tomorrow morning and see what happens...


I'd stick with the chicken for about a week. Keep everything consistent for a bit. Hopefully the problem will work itself out.


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## malluver1005 (Nov 15, 2009)

I feel so bad. All he is getting tomorrow is a drumstick and it's his birthday tomorrow!! :Cry:


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## Ania's Mommy (Feb 8, 2009)

malluver1005 said:


> I feel so bad. All he is getting tomorrow is a drumstick and it's his birthday tomorrow!! :Cry:


Oh noes! Maybe get him a bunch of toys to compensate for the lack of food? You better give him a huge birthday hug from me!

One drumstick seems like a REALLY little amount of food for the big guy. How much does he normally get?


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## malluver1005 (Nov 15, 2009)

Ania's Mommy said:


> Oh noes! Maybe get him a bunch of toys to compensate for the lack of food? You better give him a huge birthday hug from me!
> 
> One drumstick seems like a REALLY little amount of food for the big guy. How much does he normally get?


I know it seems like a little bit, but since he's got the squirts, and prefer not to fast him again, I'm just gonna give him a bone in chicken snack. Or would a chicken leg quarter be better? I really don't know how much he gets, I've never weighed his food. 

He usually gets I would say about 2 lbs. a day.


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## Ania's Mommy (Feb 8, 2009)

How much do you normally feed? 

I guess I misunderstood. I thought you had already fasted him and were starting over tomorrow. Sounds like he hasn't been fasted after his latest incident.


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## malluver1005 (Nov 15, 2009)

Ania's Mommy said:


> How much do you normally feed?
> 
> I guess I misunderstood. I thought you had already fasted him and were starting over tomorrow. Sounds like he hasn't been fasted after his latest incident.


His last incident was at 5pm today. I really don't want to fast him tomorrow because he has already been fasted about 2-3 times in the last month. I don't know whether to give him JUST a chicken leg quarter or continue with his regular meals (less of course)?


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## Ania's Mommy (Feb 8, 2009)

If it's between a regular feeding or a chicken drum snack, I vote snack.

But I don't think that fasting 2-3 times in a month is very much. I think some people regularly fast every week or so. The idea is that it more closely mimics a wolf's eating style; which is more along the lines of gorge/fast.

Of course it's up to you. I'm not sure I could fast Ania on her birthday either. :wink:


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## malluver1005 (Nov 15, 2009)

Ania's Mommy said:


> If it's between a regular feeding or a chicken drum snack, I vote snack.
> 
> But I don't think that fasting 2-3 times in a month is very much. I think some people regularly fast every week or so. The idea is that it more closely mimics a wolf's eating style; which is more along the lines of gorge/fast.
> 
> Of course it's up to you. I'm not sure I could fast Ania on her birthday either. :wink:


I think I'm gonna do a drumstick. I just can't fast him tomorrow. I can't.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

i know it's my new answer to everything, but it really does work....

slippery elm bark...it coats the stomach and intestinal tract...and allows whatever he has a chance to heal.

othewise, considering all else.....i'd feed a little less for a while, birthday or not....( i know it's gonna kill you, but buy him some toys}

with the absense of any obvious disease process...he might be shedding the drugs from the surgery so he's feeling a little off....


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## chowder (Sep 7, 2008)

malluver1005 said:


> Aspen's been on raw for about 1.5 years with really no problems at all, other than diarrhea here and there. A couple days ago he had the squirts, so I fasted him the next day and problem solved. He was good for about 4 days after that. It happened again a few days later, so I fasted him and again, problem solved. A couple days went by and no problems. He JUST did it again about 30 minutes ago. This morning he ate a chicken drumstick with a chunk of boneless beef. I really don't know whether to fast him or take him to the doctor. I'm getting kinda worried as he's been doing this for about a month now. I haven't taken his temp but he seems totally normal. Any suggestions?


I don't know if this is the same pattern or not, but you mention that you had given him chicken and boneless beef this time. Rocky has been eating raw for about a year and he still cannot eat more then just a few pieces of beef without getting an episode of the runs. He can handle pork, fish, and chicken just fine. It's just something about boneless beef that sets him off. He can eat a beef rib okay, but no more then that or just a few pieces of stew beef.

Not sure if that is Aspens problem, but you might want to keep a record of what exactly he ate each time he had this problem and maybe there was a certain meat that wasn't agreeing with him.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

chowder said:


> I don't know if this is the same pattern or not, but you mention that you had given him chicken and boneless beef this time. Rocky has been eating raw for about a year and he still cannot eat more then just a few pieces of beef without getting an episode of the runs. He can handle pork, fish, and chicken just fine. It's just something about boneless beef that sets him off. He can eat a beef rib okay, but no more then that or just a few pieces of stew beef.
> 
> Not sure if that is Aspens problem, but you might want to keep a record of what exactly he ate each time he had this problem and maybe there was a certain meat that wasn't agreeing with him.


that's a thought. straight up beef...they can only stand one meal without bone...at the next meal....

is that possible for aspen?


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

malluver1005 said:


> I think I'm gonna do a drumstick. I just can't fast him tomorrow. I can't.


if threre is no signs of disease, fecal is negative and aspen looks okay...i would do what you're going to do. 

feed him a little less, especially since it's his birthday...happy birthday, aspen....and feed him chicken with bone in.

maybe do that for the next few days so that whatever is bugging him has a chance to get out of his system.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

I would feed him nothing but bone in chicken for at least a week. Maybe longer even if he does fine for the first few days. Then slowly add things in and see if there is a trend as you slowly add things in. There might be a common denomenator that you're not realizing is there.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

how's he doing?


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## minnieme (Jul 6, 2011)

Fasting 2 or 3 times in a month doesn't seem so bad compared to when we had to fast Minnie (like 4 or 5 times a month!)! Sadly, it seems it was the ONLY thing that really helped her....slippery elm was a plus, but it was the fasting that really got things under control for her. But I totally understand the birthday thing and think you were right to just give a little bit. Hope he's feeling better!


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## malluver1005 (Nov 15, 2009)

He had a firm bm this morning, so the drumstick helped him yesterday. This morning he had another drumstick as well as a tiny piece of beef. So far so good.


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## Ania's Mommy (Feb 8, 2009)

Yeah! Glad he seems to be on the mend. :thumb:

I wouldn't chance it with the beef right now, though....


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

malluver1005 said:


> He had a firm bm this morning, so the drumstick helped him yesterday. This morning he had another drumstick as well as a tiny piece of beef. So far so good.


this may sound silly, but if he's less active because it's been so hot, is it possible his food quantity needs to be adjusted and he's just not active enough right now to require what he would when it's cooler out and he gets more exercise?


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## malluver1005 (Nov 15, 2009)

magicre said:


> this may sound silly, but if he's less active because it's been so hot, is it possible his food quantity needs to be adjusted and he's just not active enough right now to require what he would when it's cooler out and he gets more exercise?


I think this is exactly what I am doing wrong. I will lower his food intake until we start getting a bit more active.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

malluver1005 said:


> I think this is exactly what I am doing wrong. I will lower his food intake until we start getting a bit more active.


let me know. we did the same thing to malia and bubba.....when i realised they weren't getting a two mile walk every day....i found i was increasing the frequency of bone and they were gaining weight....and we use a scale....

i mean, jeez, after a year and a half....are they EVER going to transition? LOL

but, it wasn't the case....as soon as we cut back their portions, everything went back to normal. so maybe.....?


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## malluver1005 (Nov 15, 2009)

chowder said:


> I don't know if this is the same pattern or not, but you mention that you had given him chicken and boneless beef this time. Rocky has been eating raw for about a year and he still cannot eat more then just a few pieces of beef without getting an episode of the runs. He can handle pork, fish, and chicken just fine. It's just something about boneless beef that sets him off. He can eat a beef rib okay, but no more then that or just a few pieces of stew beef.
> 
> Not sure if that is Aspens problem, but you might want to keep a record of what exactly he ate each time he had this problem and maybe there was a certain meat that wasn't agreeing with him.


Aspen's never had a problem with beef. Before raw, I would give him a couple beef ribs after his breakfast and he did fine. I would even mix beef with kibble and he did fine.


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## malluver1005 (Nov 15, 2009)

Another small firm bm this morning, so the beef was not a problem


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

yay...so maybe it was the lowering of exercise and giving the same amount of food was the culprit....

glad it's as easy as that if that's what it was.....sometimes, i am so glad some things can be solved....easily.


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## malluver1005 (Nov 15, 2009)

magicre said:


> yay...so maybe it was the lowering of exercise and giving the same amount of food was the culprit....
> 
> glad it's as easy as that if that's what it was.....sometimes, i am so glad some things can be solved....easily.


We have started mushing around the block every other night, so I may up his food later on a bit.


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

The collies seem to almost hibernate. The girls are down to a pound or a tiny bit less and my big boy is down to a pound and half. I am not complaining though.


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## malluver1005 (Nov 15, 2009)

Liz said:


> The collies seem to almost hibernate. The girls are down to a pound or a tiny bit less and my big boy is down to a pound and half. I am not complaining though.


That's exactly what Aspen seems like. He lays low in the spring/summer and is up and going in the fall/winter.


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