# Sticky  Why raw makes so much dang sense- and commercial diets are just weird.



## CorgiPaws

If you feed kibble, and are offended at the fact that I think it makes absolutely no sense, please.... just close this thread now, and be on your merry way. If you can appreciate some logical, sound thinking... read on. 

Variety is key- in ANY kind of diet. We all know this. It's common sense. One food, day in and day out, over the course of time- no good for anyone. Processed or not. 

When a raw fed dog eats chicken, it looks something like this:









When a kibble fed dog eats chicken, it's something like this: 










When a raw fed dog gets beef, their meal might look like:









Oh, yay! Kibble fed dog is done with chicken! Time to rotate in BEEF!


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## xxshaelxx

*rolls around laughing my butt off!*


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## CorgiPaws

My dogs love fish. When a raw fed dog eats fish, they might get something like:









Alright! Kibble dog is done with chicken AND beef! Lucky dog! Time for Fish!!









Lamb time, for raw dog!









This kibble fed dog has a sensitive tummy, and my vet convinced me that he's allergic to chicken, so now he has to have all lamb. You can see how different it is from all the "other" kibbles.


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## CorgiPaws

Turkey time for raw dog!!










Kibble dog gets a new food!! Turkey! Yeah!









Mmm, pork ribs. Raw Dog is happy. 









Kibble dog loves pork. It's so... different.


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## CorgiPaws

Mmmm, Duck. Raw dog loves duck. The bones are so easy to nom nom nom. Kinda like chicken bones. But better. Mmmmm, duck!









Kibble dog also loves duck. Hoorahhh for variety!









Wow! Mom found a hunter that needed to clean out his freezer of last year's kills! I get RABBIT! I are happy raw dog. 









Woo hoo, sale at the dog food store! Dad sprung for rabbit! And I almost thought he was a cheap ol' sucker. Only $70 a bag for rabbit. mmm.


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## CorgiPaws

Mmm, raw dog loves venison. So... gamey! 









Kibble dog likes how.... crunchy... venison is. mmm. 










Alright, alright. I'll be done. 
I just think it irks me that people are like: "You feed WHAT?! raw meat?! that's so weird! Haven't you heard of DOG FOOD!?"
Yeah, buddy, I'M the weird one. 
have you even SEEN what your dog eats. 

Merry Christmas everyone, kibble fed dogs and all. 



**I'm sure SOMEONE will take offense to this. Wouldn't be DFC if they didn't.:biggrin: Take it in all good fun, folks.


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## DaneMama

I've been looking for inspiration for a blog post....I think I just found it. Do you mind if I use your content and give you the credit??? Awesomeness :biggrin:


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## spookychick13

Corgi, you really hit the nail on the head with this one!!

PERFECT.


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## CorgiPaws

danemama08 said:


> I've been looking for inspiration for a blog post....I think I just found it. Do you mind if I use your content and give you the credit??? Awesomeness :biggrin:


You can use anything I ever post on DFC or elsewhere. 
Always willing to spread the word on RAW, and how much sense it makes for our carnivores. :biggrin:


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## DaneMama

Officially a blog post....WOOT!! Thanks Linsey for the inspiration, you rock!

Why A Raw Diet is Just Plain Logical | Prey Model Raw


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## Northwoods10

LOVE IT!!!

Variety.....the spice of life!!!


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## 3Musketeers

Not accurate! Kibble comes in different shapes, sizes and colors! 

The red ones have meat! And the green ones veggies! And the bone-shaped ones... bones!
*sarcasm* :tongue:


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## luvMyBRT

Totally. Awesome. Post. :biggrin::biggrin:
I loved it....and it is so true! Methinks if I were a dog, I'd want to be a raw fed dog!!!!!


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## MollyWoppy

Nice post and in my view, a very relevant point. 
I must admit that when I fed kibble, I would switch the brands and proteins at every meal. Part of the reason was that I would always think gosh, how boring to have the same food day in and day out - even though my vet told me that dogs don't care about that sort of thing. Maybe he's right and I am humanising them to a certain point, but now it makes my heart happy to see my pup sniffing the air and checking out what meat she's getting for dinner each night.


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## magicre

:usa::usa::usa::usa::usa::usa:


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## BTDogRaw

MollyWoppy said:


> Part of the reason was that I would always think gosh, how boring to have the same food day in and day out - even though my vet told me that dogs don't care about that sort of thing. Maybe he's right and I am humanising them to a certain point, but now it makes my heart happy to see my pup sniffing the air and checking out what meat she's getting for dinner each night.


I used to do the same thing--switching kibble for variety. Frankly my dog seemed to think it all smelled the same.  

Hard to believe dogs don't care about their food. When I see Bailey leaping all over the place and her whiskers quivering when we haul out the chicken back or leg quarter, it's obvious she cares about what she's eating and gets soooo excited to have fresh, raw food. She doesn't even sniff in the pantry anymore where the "doomnuggets" were stored. With those impressive smelling abilities, a dog's gotta love raw more than anything else. :biggrin:

It does make one's heart happy to see those happy air sniffs and total focus on chomping their meal.

Great post--pictures do say a thousand words!

Amy J-K
&
Bailey T. Dog


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## rannmiller

I've so far helped about 7 people I know personally switch to raw (one or two more who i just told about randomly in a grocery store and they e-mailed me months later to thank me), and two more who are going to switch very soon. For some people, it's like a light goes on in their head and it just clicks. Others take a lot of time or I don't even bother. I'm going to try to get my friend who is a Nutro rep to switch her lab to raw because she is now broke and having a hard time affording Nutro ($30/15 lbs bag) for her pup who is shedding like crazy anyway. 

I did the math and it would cost her maybe $25/month to feed her lab raw, heck I'll help her out with that cost if she wants, that's a great cause IMHO! 

However, she has always been a very hard person to sell on raw. She gave her last dog some raw when it was dying from a brain tumor, but immediately went back to kibble after that dog passed away :frown: but she just said that she would keep an open mind about it and maybe try it out after she runs out of kibble so yay!

Maybe it will make sense to her too after she does it for a month and realizes how much more natural it is!


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## GermanSheperdlover

How come the moderators here can bad mouth kibble, but when i ask for all this scientific proof to back up your so called facts my posts are taken down. Why?????? Because there isn't any!!!!


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## CorgiPaws

GermanSheperdlover said:


> How come the moderators here can bad mouth kibble, but when i ask for all this scientific proof to back up your so called facts my posts are taken down. Why?????? Because there isn't any!!!!


If you would like to make a post in the kibble section about why kibble makes so much sense, and raw is silly- go for it. No one will take it down, as long as you keep it in a light hearted manner, and don't get nasty. 
That's where you have a difficult time: the not getting nasty part.

I'm not sure which thread of yours got taken down, but threads are only removed if someone breaks actual rules, generally spam type posts, or blatant attacks on other members. The science is in nature, and what we see every day. Sorry. Prey Model Raw is not an industry, though I suspect it will be someday, so there aren't corporations like Hills and Purna to fund studies to back it up. You have those big industries on your dside to dish out the funds. 
All I know, is WHOLE foods are better than PROCESSED for any creature. Human, or otherwise. Taking chicken, and feeding it in its natural form will maintain the integrity of the nutrients more than processing into something else.
High quality kibbles are often times referred to as "fast food" nutrients for dogs. I feel this is a tad bit inaccurate. However, I feel an appropriate example is a fresh chicken breast, and a breaded chicken nugget in the freezer aisle. Both start with a chicken breast. One is left to maintain its dignity, and one has "extras" thrown in that while not necessarily harmful (that's a matter of opinion!) also aren't needed at all. Add a few preservatives, and you have yourself a processed chicken nugget! Tasty little breaded suckers, but we'd all probably be better off sitting down to a whole chicken breast.


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## RawFedDogs

GermanSheperdlover said:


> How come the moderators here can bad mouth kibble, but when i ask for all this scientific proof to back up your so called facts my posts are taken down. Why?????? Because there isn't any!!!!


I don't have a clue what you are upset about. I just checked. All the posts deleted in the last month were for spam and none of them were yours. 3/4ths of those posts were deleted by anti-spam software before they even became visible to the public. If you lost a post, its just lost but it's not deleted. Maybe its off in another thread somewhere.

To answer your question, neither is there any scientific proof that kibble diets are anywhere close to as nutritious as a raw diet, so it works both ways. Raw has been around a million years, kibble about 50 or 60. WHICH should have to prove itself? Why don't you ask kibble companies to prove the value of their "food".? They haven't. It's never been done. All they have proven is that 6 of 8 dogs can survive for 6 months on their food. Thats it.


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## KlaMarie

GermanSheperdlover said:


> How come the moderators here can bad mouth kibble, but when i ask for all this scientific proof to back up your so called facts my posts are taken down. Why?????? Because there isn't any!!!!


I'm sorry, I can't help myself.

Um, just FYI.......it's shep*H*erd, not sheperd. So German Shepherd.


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## magicre

:usa::usa::usa::usa::usa:


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## NicoleSmith

I always remind owners to feed your dog with carbohydrates such as brown rice because protein needs carbohydrates to be breakdown. Raw feeding is not all about the meat.


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## Mokapi

NicoleSmith said:


> I always remind owners to feed your dog with carbohydrates such as brown rice because protein needs carbohydrates to be breakdown. Raw feeding is not all about the meat.


I'm confused, and I don't mean to be rude, but you've posted in a couple of threads now about how your dog is fed brown rice and that is not a raw diet, at least not in the sense that people here use the word. Raw feeding IS all about the meat. Plenty of people here feed their dogs ONLY raw meat, bones, and organs- myself included- with no digestive problems.


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## RawFedDogs

NicoleSmith said:


> I always remind owners to feed your dog with carbohydrates such as brown rice because protein needs carbohydrates to be breakdown. Raw feeding is not all about the meat.


Where do you find information like this? It is absolutely wrong. My 11yo Dane hasn't had any carbs in her diet in 9 years. My 6yo Dane hasn't had carbs in his diet in his entire life. Dogs possess all the ingredients to break down protein without having to add carbs. Raw feeding IS all about meat, bones, and organs. Nothing else is needed ... ever.

Wolves/dogs have gone for a million years without eating rice. Nothing has changed internally to change this concept.

*ETA:* There is no authoritive requrement anywhere that states what the Minimum Daily Requirement nor the Average Daily Requirement is for Carbs by canines.


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## magicre

:usa::usa::usa::usa::usa:


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## magicre

:usa::usa::usa::usa::usa:


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## lucky

NicoleSmith said:


> I always remind owners to feed your dog with carbohydrates such as brown rice because protein needs carbohydrates to be breakdown. Raw feeding is not all about the meat.


I'm sorry but I think you have been getting your information from somewhere totally unreliable, Raw feeding is about nothing else but meat, organs and bones, there is absolutely no place for carbs in a raw diet, it defeats the object. A dog is a carnivore, carbs should not be part of a carnivores diet


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## mischiefgrrl

NicoleSmith said:


> I always remind owners to feed your dog with carbohydrates such as brown rice because protein needs carbohydrates to be breakdown. Raw feeding is not all about the meat.


But raw feeding IS all about the meat. Brown rice needs to be cooked, that would not be raw. Veggies go right through them undigested. Please see my thread http://dogfoodchat.com/forum/pictures/8718-before-after-pmr.html to see the difference in my dog when he had brown rice and veggies added to his diet and going full raw.


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## D'Lynn

I'm not sure that age is necessarily a factor here, but well, qualifications or lack thereof sure are. I took my daughter (9) to the nature center the other day. There we viewed a bear skull, a cat skull, a coyote skull and a deer skull. She knows the difference between carnivores, omnivores, and herbivores. If an animal has neither the teeth nor the digestive system to deal with plant matter it isn't an herbivore. Or an omnivore for that matter. Oh, and when I first started out I fed my dog brown rice. It went out the same way it went in.


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## NicoleSmith

I'm sorry for the wrong information. I got that from a friend of mine. Thank you for clearing up my mind. Now, I know what the real essence of raw feeding is.


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## CorgiPaws

NicoleSmith said:


> I'm sorry for the wrong information. I got that from a friend of mine. Thank you for clearing up my mind. Now, I know what the real essence of raw feeding is.


No apology needed! We were all once subject to the lies pet food companies put out there. When you know better, you do better. :smile:


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## sadysaneto

NicoleSmith said:


> I always remind owners to feed your dog with carbohydrates such as brown rice because protein needs carbohydrates to be breakdown. Raw feeding is not all about the meat.


it may be, i don't know.

fact is my bulldogs don't get any carbs than a fruit, 2-3 times a week, and they're both 4 months old and over 40 lb of muscle.


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## FL Cracker

I was doing some online reading earlier today, this link in particular...(The Dog Food Project - Grain Free Dog Foods) ...and "the question" hit me...(not related to the link)
If raw feeding is "so bad" for our dogs... then riddle me this....
Then why are dog food companies working so hard to create a grain free kibble...then use as a sales pitch "main ingredient is chicken, veal, venison, salmon, lamb, bison...whatever.. and mimic a raw diet as closely as possible??? 

I also find it ironic that after the main protein is labeled (Meat of some sort) that a list of vitamins, "essential nutrients"...ect...ect...ect. are listed in the ingredients. While I think that some of the ingredient's are beneficial to K9 growth/development....I can only assume that the reason their added is because they are cooked out during the process...binding...ect.

In regards to needing carbs... CoCo get's an occasional carrot (she likes them, and it gives her something to chew for a bit) ...not because I feel she needs carbs...and definitely not because protein needs a "binder" to be digested by a K9 with a digestive/stomach enzyme PH of 0-2., respectively. 
As stated...that carrot comes out the same way it went in...chewed up, and un-digested. This was one of the "test's" I did before switching to a raw diet...and the more I read...theory "tested"...the more raw made sense. Could not have made a better decision to switch.

I read somewhere where wolves have been seen eating bark, leaves, fruit, ect...in the wild... my answer to that... 
I've seen deer eat bark off of a tree too... (I know their herbivores)...still atypical behavior for them...and I have watched deer in the wild for 30 years.
One winter I watched a little doe eat bark like it was a fresh apple....doubt she made it through the winter.
In both scenario's...bark was not their choice of food...it's what was available at that time...and they were hungry (starving) enough to eat it.


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## magicre

:usa::usa::usa::usa::usa:


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## bully4life

GermanSheperdlover said:


> How come the moderators here can bad mouth kibble, but when i ask for all this scientific proof to back up your so called facts my posts are taken down. Why?????? Because there isn't any!!!!


 I have to agree with you .. I'm ALSO not into evolution and science, oh,, and i HATE common sense. lol.lol.
If you can show me ANY proof of kibble before the 18th century,,,ill pay off your house. good luck


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## SunshineDay

I dont want to bash raw because I havent tried it but as a RVT and having a bachelors in animal science I cant say I am conviced of its benefits. The first thing that comes to mind is salmonella, not to mention other nasties that hide in raw meat. It has been argued that the reason humans have evolved from cavemen to modern man is due in part of our ability to "cook" meat, as raw meat can be once again, filled with not so friendly parasites and bacteria. What passes for USDA grade meats in scary now a days, I did a stint as a technician on a USDA inspected farm in central california once and OMG, the way these animals are kept and the gigantic growths and infections on them was disgusting. But thats a whole separate thread in itself... from all my learning and research (acutal university (UCD) research, not just googling crap and declaring myself an expert) dogs are omnivores, they have been domesticated and are no longer carbon copies of wolves. If they were straight carnivores they wouldnt molars for mashing up leaves, plants. Cats are an excellent example of domesticated carnivores.. do a dental prophy on one sometime to see why. I am all for more meat in dogs diet, heck my dogs routinely catch and eat whole squirrels and they love it, but to say a dog should ONLY be on raw meat (which I know many of you arent) is just plain crazy.


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## BearMurphy

SunshineDay said:


> I am all for more meat in dogs diet, heck my dogs routinely catch and eat whole squirrels and they love it, but to say a dog should ONLY be on raw meat (which I know many of you arent) is just plain crazy.


Why is that crazy? What evidence do you have that nutrients are missing from a diet of meat, bone, and organs? I would be interested to know what your education and individual research has shown you about canine nutrition


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## SunshineDay

It was part of my senior project at UC Davis for my companion animal concentration. The thing with feeding just meat only is that it causes the kidneys to work in overtime, this can lead to stones and routinely passing large amount of ketones. Also, uncooked bones can cause splintering (think laceration of intestines) and obstruction - had to monitor a gastrotomy on a dog who was fed raw bones two weeks ago. Of course not every dog will develop this, but it does put dogs at higher risk. But to each his own.


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## SaharaNight Boxers

SunshineDay said:


> It was part of my senior project at UC Davis for my companion animal concentration. The thing with feeding just meat only is that it causes the kidneys to work in overtime, this can lead to stones and routinely passing large amount of ketones. Also, uncooked bones can cause splintering (think laceration of intestines) and obstruction - had to monitor a gastrotomy on a dog who was fed raw bones two weeks ago. Of course not every dog will develop this, but it does put dogs at higher risk. But to each his own.


Other way around. Kidneys work less with raw food. Think whole fresh foods instead of processed food. Less stress on the kidneys. And as far as that dog, he might have not been able to digest them because his stomach wasn't ready for rough bones. Which is why you start with chicken. In fact I believe if you would look up the amount of dogs that were switched to raw and helped by raw with their kidneys you might be amazed.


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## SunshineDay

I respect your difference of opinion and understand we are all trying to do whats best for our pets. But I honestly could never, from a medical standpoint, recommend giving chicken bones to a dog, I would be concerned with splinters and intestinal obstruction- maybe because I work as a tech and see things like this everyday I am more cautious/aware? Out of curiousity what do raw feeders who breed wean there pups on? I am very interested to know


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## naturalfeddogs

Chicken bones are only a danger when cooked- thats when they splinter. Otherwise, they are just crunchy, fully digestable and full of nutrients. Join in the raw forum, and you will learn all sorts of stuff you would never imagine.


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## SaharaNight Boxers

They wean directly on to raw too. And If my other post seemed rude I apologise. I certainly wouldn't want to drive you away from raw. I am also studying to become a vet too. If you would ever want to test out your opinion to see if it's correct definitely come to the raw side. Being a vet is in a way being a scientist and scientists always ask questions and seek to answer them. You could do a trial and even publish your work or at least have it around. You never know until you try.


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## naturalfeddogs

SunshineDay said:


> I dont want to bash raw because I havent tried it but as a RVT and having a bachelors in animal science I cant say I am conviced of its benefits. The first thing that comes to mind is salmonella, not to mention other nasties that hide in raw meat. It has been argued that the reason humans have evolved from cavemen to modern man is due in part of our ability to "cook" meat, as raw meat can be once again, filled with not so friendly parasites and bacteria. What passes for USDA grade meats in scary now a days, I did a stint as a technician on a USDA inspected farm in central california once and OMG, the way these animals are kept and the gigantic growths and infections on them was disgusting. But thats a whole separate thread in itself... from all my learning and research (acutal university (UCD) research, not just googling crap and declaring myself an expert) dogs are omnivores, they have been domesticated and are no longer carbon copies of wolves. If they were straight carnivores they wouldnt molars for mashing up leaves, plants. Cats are an excellent example of domesticated carnivores.. do a dental prophy on one sometime to see why. I am all for more meat in dogs diet, heck my dogs routinely catch and eat whole squirrels and they love it, but to say a dog should ONLY be on raw meat (which I know many of you arent) is just plain crazy.


Salmonella is not a problem for dogs because of extremely high stomach acids, and a very much shorter digestive system than us. Raw food digests and moves through very fast, so nothing has a chance to just sit around and "build up". We on the other hand have long digestive systems so food sits around in us a lot longer.

Dogs ARE still wolf decendants. All the way from the teeth to the stomach. In fact, I believe they share 98% of the same DNA if I'm not mistaken.


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## naturalfeddogs

SunshineDay said:


> I respect your difference of opinion and understand we are all trying to do whats best for our pets. But I honestly could never, from a medical standpoint, recommend giving chicken bones to a dog, I would be concerned with splinters and intestinal obstruction- maybe because I work as a tech and see things like this everyday I am more cautious/aware? Out of curiousity what do raw feeders who breed wean there pups on? I am very interested to know


Go to the raw forum, and there is a sticky or two on weaning puppies onto raw, and feeding pregnant ones also.


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## Sprocket

SunshineDay said:


> I dont want to bash raw because I havent tried it but as a RVT and having a bachelors in animal science I cant say I am conviced of its benefits. The first thing that comes to mind is salmonella, not to mention other nasties that hide in raw meat. It has been argued that the reason* humans have evolved from cavemen to modern man is due in part of our ability to "cook" meat, *as raw meat can be once again, filled with not so friendly parasites and bacteria. What passes for USDA grade meats in scary now a days, I did a stint as a technician on a USDA inspected farm in central california once and OMG, the way these animals are kept and the gigantic growths and infections on them was disgusting. But thats a whole separate thread in itself... from all my learning and research (acutal university (UCD) research, not just googling crap and declaring myself an expert) dogs are omnivores, they have been domesticated and are no longer carbon copies of wolves. If they were straight carnivores they wouldnt molars for mashing up leaves, plants. Cats are an excellent example of domesticated carnivores.. do a dental prophy on one sometime to see why. I am all for more meat in dogs diet, heck my dogs routinely catch and eat whole squirrels and they love it, but to say a dog should ONLY be on raw meat (which I know many of you arent) is just plain crazy.



You cannot compare apples to oranges. 

Humans chose to cook the meat and eat it. We don't see wolves making campfires do we?

Humans may have shaped and moulded wolves to look like the dogs of today but they did not change their insides. There are thousands of dogs that THRIVE on a raw diet (my 3 included), you cannot sit there and stubbornly state that its not okay, when it CLEARLY is perfectly alright for these dogs to eat what they are meant to eat. I have a chihuahua that eats the same thing my pitbull and my heeler mix eat. He has no issues digesting bone. Just because he is smaller doesn't not make his tummy any less capable.

Before kibble came along, what did dogs eat? Kibble was created FOR THE HUMAN. It is more convenient for us, that is the only reason kibble was created. 

Humans have molars set up for being omnivores and eating plant matter, dogs simply DO NOT have flat molars for that process. Dogs have ripper and tearers to eat MEAT.

It really truly is as easy as that. :wink:


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## magicre

:usa::usa::usa::usa::usa::usa:


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## Sprocket

magicre said:


> i respect your opinion and i understand why it's different....but if you could go through your records where you work, please tell me how many dogs have come in with an obstruction due to raw bones or raw anything. i am not talking about cooked bones. they are a no no.


Not disregarding anything else you said because it was a great post, but THIS would be something that I would LOVE LOVE LOVE to see the vets pull out and show us. 

If raw bones are the main culprit, well then I'll eat my shorts!


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## Liz

I feed raw - meat, bone and organ only. I wean my puppies straight from mom's milk to raw whole chicken - meat, organ and bone. It is of course ground until they get enough length of tooth to tear their meat themselves. I have kept half of both my most current litters and all the pups have been to vets for checkup and blood work and also evaluated by other breeders and judges for structure and soundness. One litter is 18 months old and the 11 months old. The pups who were kept on raw far outshine their kibble fed counterparts. My old dogs act like pups, a mild case of arthritis in the shoulder of my 13 year old 85 pound collie which I feel is nature taking it's course. He probably should have passed had I not switched him to raw if only because of his size and age. 

The medical/veterinary professions I am sorry to say have not had my dogs nor my nutritional health in hand. I love my vet in that he takes care of my pets in case of accident or injury - and respects the alternative feeding and holistic care they regularly receive. Medical doctors know about as much about nutrition as most vets do which is very little. You should check the raw forum and at least get more information. 

If you cannot advocate a raw diet on the off chance of a bone obstructions or salmonella - then you should really not endorse kibble as many, many have been recalled for salmonella, e-coli, etc. You should very sternly advocate against letting dogs have raw hides, chew toys, tennis balls, access to the home in general as there have been many more cases of obstruction from clothing as these other items as well as cooked bones as you will ever see by raw bones. Please take the time to research and balance your statements. You don't have to endorse raw feeding - but to deny it's benefits due to a small risk without considering these other more potentially dangerous risks is wrong. I will not endorse kibble, processed foods, vaccinations or topical treatments of any kind for my dogs because I have seen the damage first hand. JMHO


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## pogo

I feed raw to my boys, and I eat raw myself (bar the bones obv  ) so the salmonella thing is quite frankly b******* to me :suspicious: if i can manage it then i'm sure my little carnivores will be fine.

I'm sorry but vets are not nutritionists, and shouldn't be endorsing kibble if worries about salmonella etc with the amount of recalls!


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## xellil

Yikes! I think I know you.

In fact, I am sure of it. 

I am so, so glad I started ignoring the recommendations of my vet. 

Seems to my like a bunch of dry dog food was just recalled for salmonella. And aflatoxin. And oh goodness, let's not forget about the melamine, and the diseased animals, and the stuff they put in there that causes lifelong allergies. And whoops, what about the kidney failures of "unknown origin?"

Seems like vets should do more research on the dangers of dry food than telling people how horrible raw bones are. But then, darn, how would they justify making money off all the Science Diet?

Such a dilemma....


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## xellil

Champion just expanded their recall to puppy food - MORE SALMONELLA! 

And we are worried about raw meat WHY?????

I find the whole raw meat/salmonella thing so hypocritical.


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## lovemydogsalways

xellil said:


> Champion just expanded their recall to puppy food - MORE SALMONELLA!
> 
> And we are worried about raw meat WHY?????
> 
> I find the whole raw meat/salmonella thing so hypocritical.


You meant Diamond right? LOL


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## xellil

lovemydogsalways said:


> You meant Diamond right? LOL


Thanks. I keep getting all the crappy dog food companies mixed up.


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## magicre

:usa::usa::usa::usa::usa:


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## xellil

magicre said:


> who owns chicken soup for the soul dog food and i think canidae....weren't they just recalled for salmonella?
> 
> i too get them mixed up.


I think Diamond is chicken soup and Champion is canidae - however, as everyone knows I'm half senile.


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## lovemydogsalways

magicre said:


> who owns chicken soup for the soul dog food and i think canidae....weren't they just recalled for salmonella?
> 
> i too get them mixed up.


Diamond produces both, but Canidae just recently bought their own manufacturing plant in Texas.
http://www.prweb.com/releases/2012/4/prweb9434480.htm


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## MollyWoppy

Champion Petfoods makes Orijen and Acana. Excellent kibble.


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## socal_sarah

SunshineDay said:


> I respect your difference of opinion and understand we are all trying to do whats best for our pets. But I honestly could never, from a medical standpoint, recommend giving chicken bones to a dog, I would be concerned with splinters and intestinal obstruction- maybe because I work as a tech and see things like this everyday I am more cautious/aware?


I have worked for 2 different vets for a total of 7 yrs. I, too, was completely against the idea of feeding raw and highly recommended Eukanuba, Science Diet & Royal Canin. After sitting through a lunch & learn with Nature's Variety, my mind was completely changed. If the thought of a possible obstruction or GI perforation is all that is holding you back from feeding raw, that's SO easy to remedy! You could try a pre-packaged raw diet like Nature's Variety or Northwest Naturals. If you wanted to go cheaper and do strictly PMR, you can either buy the pre-ground meat/bone mixes (like Oma's Pride) or you could grind your own necks, backs, etc. I swear, if you seriously try just raw for 1 month, the change in your pet's stool would be enough to sell you on raw! I'm a firm believer in it now and will be starting my Great Dane pup on it as soon as we get her at 5-6 wks. I'm also going to try and transition my severe food allergy Mini Doxie onto the PMR with meats he tested ok with.


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