# Following SD steps Eukanuba changes too



## Sapphire-Light (Aug 8, 2010)

A few months ago SD changed many of their formulas they removed things like by-products as I mentioned on those days http://dogfoodchat.com/forum/dry-canned-dog-food/18842-new-science-diet-formulas-update.html

So now Eukanuba is doing the same taking off the by products as well of some of their formulas, and also the corn Introducing Eukanuba Excel Dog Food | Eukanuba

In conclusion like I said in the SD thread this means that the old big companies are loosing sells with all this education in how to feed your dog and the new brands of better quality kibble, so if they don't change they will keep loosing clients


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## CrazyZane (Apr 14, 2013)

Sapphire-Light said:


> A few months ago SD changed many of their formulas they removed things like by-products as I mentioned on those days http://dogfoodchat.com/forum/dry-canned-dog-food/18842-new-science-diet-formulas-update.html
> 
> So now Eukanuba is doing the same taking off the by products as well of some of their formulas, and also the corn Introducing Eukanuba Excel Dog Food | Eukanuba
> 
> In conclusion like I said in the SD thread this means that the old big companies are loosing sells with all this education in how to feed your dog and the new brands of better quality kibble, so if they don't change they will keep loosing clients


I've read a lot of threads lately saying by-products are so bad. What is so bad about them compared to a meal? When dogs are fed raw they're often fed by-products aren't they?


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## Unosmom (May 3, 2009)

> I've read a lot of threads lately saying by-products are so bad. What is so bad about them compared to a meal? When dogs are fed raw they're often fed by-products aren't they?


I have no problem feeding by products IF I know what they are. Organ meat sure! its packed with nutrients, but most pet food companies do not label their sources, it'll just say generic "chicken byproducts" which can be anything. Since chicken gizzards, liver and hearts are sold for human consumption, I'm assuming that whatever goes into pet food is of lesser quality. In addition, pet fda regulations, meat products deemed inedible that are to be used for pet/livestock food are treated with number of chemicals (denatured), prior to being converted into feed.


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## Savage Destiny (Mar 16, 2011)

CrazyZane said:


> I've read a lot of threads lately saying by-products are so bad. What is so bad about them compared to a meal? When dogs are fed raw they're often fed by-products aren't they?


The problem with by products is that they are anonymous. They can be all sorts of different things, and it can change from bag to bag. I like companies that use stable formulas, not formulas they can sneak changes in with each batch.


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## CrazyZane (Apr 14, 2013)

Unosmom said:


> I have no problem feeding by products IF I know what they are. Organ meat sure! its packed with nutrients, but most pet food companies do not label their sources, it'll just say generic "chicken byproducts" which can be anything. Since chicken gizzards, liver and hearts are sold for human consumption, I'm assuming that whatever goes into pet food is of lesser quality. In addition, pet fda regulations, meat products deemed inedible that are to be used for pet/livestock food are treated with number of chemicals (denatured), prior to being converted into feed.



Reading the PDF below, it seems there's no significant difference between poultry meal vs poultry by-product meal. So I don't see what the fuss is about w/ by-product meals as long as it's a named by-product meal. 

www.hilarywatson.com/chicken.pdf


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## doggiedad (Jan 23, 2011)

by product meal is ground by product.



CrazyZane said:


> Reading the PDF below, it seems there's no significant difference between
> 
> >>>>> poultry meal vs poultry by-product meal.<<<<<
> 
> ...


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## CrazyZane (Apr 14, 2013)

doggiedad said:


> by product meal is ground by product.



Um ok, I don't get your point? Dog's don't care if it's ground up or not.


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## doggiedad (Jan 23, 2011)

by products are parts that are not for human comsumption.there shouldn't be teeth, hair, hooves in the product. if something
is labeled beef- by- product it should only contain parts from cows same as for chicken or lamb.



Savage Destiny said:


> The problem with by products is that they are anonymous. They can be all sorts of different things, and it can change from bag to bag. I like companies that use stable formulas, not formulas they can sneak changes in with each batch.


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## doggiedad (Jan 23, 2011)

"meal by product is ground meal". the point is you're talking about the difference between
poultry meal and poultry by product meal. one is ground the other one isn't. i was explaining
the difference to you and your right dogs don't care about the difference.



CrazyZane said:


> Um ok, I don't get your point? Dog's don't care if it's ground up or not.





CrazyZane said:


> Reading the PDF below, it seems there's no significant difference between poultry meal vs poultry by-product meal. So I don't see what the fuss is about w/ by-product meals as long as it's a named by-product meal.
> 
> www.hilarywatson.com/chicken.pdf


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## Savage Destiny (Mar 16, 2011)

CrazyZane said:


> Reading the PDF below, it seems there's no significant difference between poultry meal vs poultry by-product meal. So I don't see what the fuss is about w/ by-product meals as long as it's a named by-product meal.
> 
> www.hilarywatson.com/chicken.pdf





doggiedad said:


> by products are parts that are not for human comsumption.there shouldn't be teeth, hair, hooves in the product. if something
> is labeled beef- by- product it should only contain parts from cows same as for chicken or lamb.



"Chicken meal" can only be chicken muscle meat and bone. "Chicken by-product meal" can be chicken liver, gizzard, heart, intestine, and many other things. So "chicken by-product meal" could be liver one bag, intestine the next, etc. Not necessarily bad ingredients, but I do not like to see companies able to switch the formula of the food batch to batch without having to state it.


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## CrazyZane (Apr 14, 2013)

doggiedad said:


> "meal by product is ground meal". the point is you're talking about the difference between
> poultry meal and poultry by product meal. one is ground the other one isn't. i was explaining
> the difference to you and your right dogs don't care about the difference.


I swear I'm not trying to start sh*t but whether it's a meal or a by-product meal aren't ALL kibble ingredients ground up in the end anyway to make the kibble?

Here it shows it as being ground up:
Low Ash Pet Food Poultry Protein Meal | American Proteins, Inc.


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## CrazyZane (Apr 14, 2013)

Savage Destiny said:


> "Chicken meal" can only be chicken muscle meat and bone. "Chicken by-product meal" can be chicken liver, gizzard, heart, intestine, and many other things. So "chicken by-product meal" could be liver one bag, intestine the next, etc. Not necessarily bad ingredients, but I do not like to see companies able to switch the formula of the food batch to batch without having to state it.


I get what you're saying but how much meat is really still on the carcass? That can also vary from batch to batch can't it? Maybe one batch has more meat left on the bone and maybe the next batch is mainly skin and bone w/ very little meat. I'd rather have a by-product meal where I know it will include some type of innards. Raw feeders don't always feed the same innards every day so I honestly wouldn't care if every batch had different innards or not. A lot of people rotate kibble so they're not always feeding the same formula either. I just don't get the fuss over a named by-product meal compared to a named meal.....


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## Sapphire-Light (Aug 8, 2010)

I'm not completely sure, but I think what makes people uncomfortable wit by-products is that they may include things that aren't normal for human feed or in a wild wolf diet like hooves, fur, feathers, teeth, horns, hole heads, etc http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/choosing-dog-food/animal-by-products/

And you are correct in people who approve raw feed things like the organs, feet and other things but not the stuff a wild canine will not normally eat in a prey like the horns, teeth or feathers, at least that's what I understand in the by-products issue.


Kind of off topic, CrazyZane I love the color of your Chessie I never had seen one wit that dark color, however I only have seen chessies in pictures and never in person .


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## CrazyZane (Apr 14, 2013)

Sapphire-Light said:


> I'm not completely sure, but I think what makes people uncomfortable wit by-products is that they may include things that aren't normal for human feed or in a wild wolf diet like hooves, fur, feathers, teeth, horns, hole heads, etc The Truth About Animal By-Products in Dog Food
> 
> And you are correct in people who approve raw feed things like the organs, feet and other things but not the stuff a wild canine will not normally eat in a prey like the horns, teeth or feathers, at least that's what I understand in the by-products issue.



See that's the problem. A lot of people repeat what they've read but like a lot of things posted online some just are just plain false. When enough people keep posting false info it becomes true. :shocked: Just like a meat meal, meat by-product meals cannot contain added hair, horns, teeth or hooves either. Here's the definition from AAFCO: 

*Meat Meal
the rendered product from mammal tissues, exclusive of blood, hair, hoof, horn, hide trimmings, manure, stomach and rumen contents except in such amounts as may occur unavoidably in good processing practices.*

*Meat By-Products
the non rendered, clean parts, other than meat, derived from slaughtered mammals. It includes, but is not limited to, lungs, spleen, kidneys, brain, livers, blood, bone, partially defatted low-temperature fatty tissue and stomachs and intestines freed of their contents. It does not include hair, horns, teeth and hooves.*

*Poultry By-Product Meal
consists of the ground, rendered, clean parts of the carcass of slaughtered poultry, such as necks, feet, undeveloped eggs, intestines, exclusive of feathers, except in such amounts as might occur unavoidably in good processing practices.*



And I don't know how it is in the U.S. (I've tried to look it up but I can't find it) but the E.U. also requires by-products to be labeled not fit for human consumption BUT here's the weird part: All ingredients used for pet food has to be fit for human consumption according to EU requirements. *But regulations require that pet food that contains by-products be labeled as "Not for human consumption" even though such by-products have to be derived from animals declared fit for human consumption*. Raw pet food has to be labeled "Pet food only".

So just because something is labeled not fit for human consumption doesn't mean it came from an unfit animal, the animals were still fit for human consumption. There's a lot of word play when it comes to pet foods.




Sapphire-Light said:


> Kind of off topic, CrazyZane I love the color of your Chessie I never had seen one wit that dark color, however I only have seen chessies in pictures and never in person .


Thanks. He's dark brown all over but right behind his ears and under his armpits he has a little deadgrass coloring.


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## Sapphire-Light (Aug 8, 2010)

CrazyZane said:


> See that's the problem. A lot of people repeat what they've read but like a lot of things posted online some just are just plain false. When enough people keep posting false info it becomes true. :shocked: Just like a meat meal, meat by-product meals cannot contain added hair, horns, teeth or hooves either. Here's the definition from AAFCO:
> 
> *Meat Meal
> the rendered product from mammal tissues, exclusive of blood, hair, hoof, horn, hide trimmings, manure, stomach and rumen contents except in such amounts as may occur unavoidably in good processing practices.*
> ...




That's confusing in how the meats are mentioned, then how are those stuff labeled then? 

As there are so many things, there's even an "animal or poultry protein" who some of the RC foods have like the french bulldog one, not sure what it means but it sounds like they rip off the protein similar to those soy protein shakes for human bodybuilders 

Or what's the difference between "meat and animal derivatives" and the by products 




CrazyZane said:


> Thanks. He's dark brown all over but right behind his ears and under his armpits he has a little deadgrass coloring.


That's awesome, his brown is very rich also his eyes make a good contrast of color.

My toy poodle is dark red but in the top of the hips also has some lighter coloring almost apricot , and since he is in the continental clip his pom poms over the hips if you look closely is different from the rest of the body that is darker but they don't look like a patch , depending in the lighting is like he is wearing shorts LOL


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