# leptosporosis vaccinations



## thegoodstuff (May 12, 2010)

Whats the consensus on leptospirosis vaccinations? The first time I ever heard of the disease was a year ago when Nicky had to be tested to rule it out as a cause for his sky high liver values. In almost 16 years having dogs no vet ever mentioned it, let alone vaccinating for it. It is not a "core" vaccination.



> A Pfizer mouthpiece states that “they would advise to strongly consider vaccination” because “they appear to work”, yearly boosters “appear to be necessary”. They admit that the weak spot is “vaccine development” and “diagnostic assays”, that reemergence of this disease could very well be the result of vaccine programs!
> 
> As reported by clients; Anaphylaxis, anorexia, fever, dehydration, autoimmune disease, digestive issues, limping, loud vocalization following vaccination, acute organ failure, renal failure, liver failure, pancreatitis, death, dermatitis, puritis, cancer, degeneration of soft tissue - all of these are reports following administration of the Leptospira vaccine



Between the possible adverse reactions and the cost, not to mention the drug company hype, Im not convinced it is necessary. I live in Connecticut, I heard there was a lepto kidney failure death recently. Have a appt at the vet tomorrow morning. Yes I should have posted this question a few days ago.


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

Lepto is an ineffective vaccine by anyone's standards. The people I know who do vaccinate regularly will not give Lepto.


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## Losech (Jul 10, 2012)

I don't vaccinate for it and never will. I don't stop my dogs from drinking out of random puddles on hikes either. Random puddles on the street, yeah, but not out in the bush. I have yet to hear of a dog who got Lepto in my area. Recently or otherwise.


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## monster'sdad (Jul 29, 2012)

Liz said:


> Lepto is an ineffective vaccine by anyone's standards. The people I know who do vaccinate regularly will not give Lepto.


The issue is that the components of the existing vaccine are limited to a few servovars not that it is ineffective. The risk of reaction is high and unless your dog is at high risk, it probably isn't worth it. However, each person has to make that decision independently because the disease is serious.


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

Our vets here don't even carry the vaccine. The one I worked for years ago said IF someone was going to be travelling somewhere where lepto is known to be a problem he would order it then, but otherwise no, it's never given. There is just too big of a risk involved with it.


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## kathylcsw (Jul 31, 2011)

My vet doesn't recommend it. She says she has seen more bad reactions to the vaccine than she has cases of lepto.


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## shellbell (Sep 24, 2011)

Tux had a reaction to this as a puppy, before I adopted him. His foster mom had taken him to get puppy shots and his face swelled up, he had to be rushed back to the vet. 

My own vet says that he sees more cases of lepto vaccine reaction than he does actual lepto. 

I think even if a dog would get lepto, it is something that can be treated.


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

shellbell said:


> Tux had a reaction to this as a puppy, before I adopted him. His foster mom had taken him to get puppy shots and his face swelled up, he had to be rushed back to the vet.
> 
> My own vet says that he sees more cases of lepto vaccine reaction than he does actual lepto.
> 
> I think even if a dog would get lepto, it is something that can be treated.


Yea, it can be treated fairly easily, and from my understanding it will even sometimes clear up on it's own. I think I read that in a recent mercola pet health newsletter.


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## monster'sdad (Jul 29, 2012)

naturalfeddogs said:


> Yea, it can be treated fairly easily, and from my understanding it will even sometimes clear up on it's own. I think I read that in a recent mercola pet health newsletter.


You must be joking. Treated fairly easily???? 

You simply can't be serious. Lepto is an extremely serious infection. Extremely serious. It requires aggressive and immediate treatment, and the treatment in lengthy.

For everyone's sake please stop playing Vet. You are completely incorrect, as usual.

As for Alabama vets not carrying it. I think that is a dream you had. Lepto is a warm and wet climate diseass and Florida & Alabama are prime areas for outbreaks.


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## BearMurphy (Feb 29, 2012)

Hi, I'm in CT and no longer vaccinate for lepto. Where did you hear about the lepto kidney failure? I take my dog hiking and want to avoid any area in question. It would also be good to know what specific type of lepto it was because it may not even be one the vaccine covers

I've seen a vet who does limited vaccines, supports raw feeding, and does TCM herbs who does not recommend the lepto vaccine. It's for the same reasons monster'sdad stated and if it's suspected they start treating for it while the test results are pending. My regular vet recommends it but they recommend the whole DHLPP yearly. I would talk it over with your vet to feel more comfortable but if you don't take your dog to bodies of water that could be contaminated by wildlife I definitely wouldn't give the shot


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## monster'sdad (Jul 29, 2012)

BearMurphy said:


> Hi, I'm in CT and no longer vaccinate for lepto. Where did you hear about the lepto kidney failure? I take my dog hiking and want to avoid any area in question. It would also be good to know what specific type of lepto it was because it may not even be one the vaccine covers
> 
> I've seen a vet who does limited vaccines, supports raw feeding, and does TCM herbs who does not recommend the lepto vaccine. It's for the same reasons monster'sdad stated and if it's suspected they start treating for it while the test results are pending. My regular vet recommends it but they recommend the whole DHLPP yearly. I would talk it over with your vet to feel more comfortable but if you don't take your dog to bodies of water that could be contaminated by wildlife I definitely wouldn't give the shot


Starting treatment right away is not a reason to not vaccinate for lepto. Even when you start right away, it is still a very dangerous infection. The only reason no to vaccinate is a very low risk of exposure, either because you live in a low risk area or the particular dog is not likely to be exposed, like a dog that rarely leaves a fenced property. People wrongly believe it is a country infection, but there have been very bad outbreaks in cities.

I don't feel it is a required vaccine for most dogs, but each owner has to make that decision for themselves.

Don't let anyone tell you it is a mild infection if it happens. It is quite serious.


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## thegoodstuff (May 12, 2010)

BearMurphy said:


> Hi, I'm in CT and no longer vaccinate for lepto. Where did you hear about the lepto kidney failure? I take my dog hiking and want to avoid any area in question. It would also be good to know what specific type of lepto it was because it may not even be one the vaccine covers
> 
> I've seen a vet who does limited vaccines, supports raw feeding, and does TCM herbs who does not recommend the lepto vaccine. It's for the same reasons monster'sdad stated and if it's suspected they start treating for it while the test results are pending. My regular vet recommends it but they recommend the whole DHLPP yearly. I would talk it over with your vet to feel more comfortable but if you don't take your dog to bodies of water that could be contaminated by wildlife I definitely wouldn't give the shot



It was at a vet in Stratford a few weeks ago, the dog died of renal failure. I think it would chase critters and sometimes caught them. About talking to the vet, I think they are geared to sell what people will buy. They capitalize on owners' fears. When I made the appt for the vaccination for this morning, not a word was mentioned about the risks or the hit or miss nature of the vaccine. BTW, I cancelled the appt after the comments here and some other reading.

I just found this. Not overly encouraging.


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## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

I'm in Florida and our vet will not give the vaccine. Not that I would give it to my dog anyway, but he specifically said that he will not give the vaccination as the potential side effects are simply too dangerous to risk.


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## BearMurphy (Feb 29, 2012)

thegoodstuff said:


> It was at a vet in Stratford a few weeks ago, the dog died of renal failure. I think it would chase critters and sometimes caught them. About talking to the vet, I think they are geared to sell what people will buy. They capitalize on owners' fears. When I made the appt for the vaccination for this morning, not a word was mentioned about the risks or the hit or miss nature of the vaccine. BTW, I cancelled the appt after the comments here and some other reading.
> 
> I just found this. Not overly encouraging.


Was the dog previously vaccinated and contracted it anyways?

What serovar was it? If it wasn't L. Canicola, L. Gripophytosa, L. Icterohemorrhagiae, and L.Pomona, then the vaccine wouldn't have addressed it anyways.

If that's the kind of vet you have, I would not say should i get this vaccine to them...I would say tell me why you recommend it and then ask how many cases they see to find out if it's a problem in your area and look at the risk level of your dog (Do you hike? Does your dog catch other animals?). Then consider that it may not even work before you get it and it will hurt your dog's immune system

Personally, I am just not a fan of vaccines for bacterial diseases. I have deer ticks in my yard but I don't vaccinate for lyme because dogs get lyme disease even though they have been vaccinated. I choose to groom my dog daily and will address my yard instead of vaccinating. I use frontline in the bad months.

Here's an article that may be an interesting read for you. If you scroll down there are links for other articles and reading the comments can help you see both sides of the issue. 
SMOKE AND MIRRORS » Dogs Naturally Magazine


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## Khan (Jan 17, 2010)

With Khan being as sensitive to food and environmental things, I was not wanting to vaccinate after his puppy shots. My vet encouraged me to get a final round. I know that it was entirely my decision; but I did trust him (he's since retired) so I agreed; but only if we split the vaccine. We gave him the first dose without issue, and about a month later we gave him the second. That was the Lepto portion. He had the worst allergic reaction! He had to have a steroid shot just to calm down the reaction. My vet felt soo bad he didn't even charge me for that! Needless to say, he agreed that he would not be giving Khan any more vaccines!


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## BearMurphy (Feb 29, 2012)

Khan said:


> With Khan being as sensitive to food and environmental things, I was not wanting to vaccinate after his puppy shots. My vet encouraged me to get a final round. I know that it was entirely my decision; but I did trust him (he's since retired) so I agreed; but only if we split the vaccine. We gave him the first dose without issue, and about a month later we gave him the second. That was the Lepto portion. He had the worst allergic reaction! He had to have a steroid shot just to calm down the reaction. My vet felt soo bad he didn't even charge me for that! Needless to say, he agreed that he would not be giving Khan any more vaccines!


the lepto vaccine is only effective for 6 months to a year (if at all) so he shouldn't have given it as a part of the series anyways. bacterial vaccines don't work the same as viral vaccines and he should have explained that to you. Not knocking your vet, I'm sure that's common...it just disappointing that a vet you trust, knowing your intentions, recommended lepto still


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## thegoodstuff (May 12, 2010)

BearMurphy said:


> Was the dog previously vaccinated and contracted it anyways?
> 
> What serovar was it? If it wasn't L. Canicola, L. Gripophytosa, L. Icterohemorrhagiae, and L.Pomona, then the vaccine wouldn't have addressed it anyways.
> 
> ...


I have no idea what serovar it was. Thanks for the link, I read the SMOKE AND MIRRORS article and a lot more. Not on trails much, he likes to eat snow and Ive watched him tracking and listening for _something_ in the snow in the fenced in yard.

This puts it into perspective: "A person [or dog] not vaccinated has ONE RISK, catching the disease, where a vaccinated person [or dog] has TWO RISKS; catching the disease and damage from the vaccine”.

Jean Dodds DVM has been referred to as the guru of vaccines: Lepto vaccination is *not *recommended. Risk outweighs benefits.

From 2004: "And leptospirosis in dogs seems to be on the rise, with potential zoonotic ramifications. Good incidence data, however, don't exist." The data I could find wasnt newer than 2007, including from the AVMA and the CVMA. If there are any national/regional/state lepto incidence maps or stats, I cant find them. This is the closest thing I found. This is a handy site but lepto is not one of the diseases. Beware: "The data in this map was provided by IDEXX Laboratories and ANTECH Diagnostics"

As to the vet thing, years ago I switched to the veterinarian practice I use now when I realized the previous vet was robbing me. I really like them. That said, when I asked them why they recommend heart worm meds year round when the outdoor temp has to be 60 degrees for 30 days for a mosquito become L3, this was the response: "It is unlikely a dog in CT would get exposed to heartworm during the winter. If a mosquito already has L3 in it and is dormant, say in your house or basement in the winter and happens to bite your dog transmission can occur. Obviously this is unlikely to happen. We make the year round recommendation for interceptor for several reasons. Many of our clients travel to warmer climates in the winter, the pill also protects against internal parasites which they can acquire year round, the guarantee from Novartis is only good if you give it year round, and the biggest reason is alot of clients forget to start giving pill again in spring so the dogs can get infected before owner remembers" Maybe its just me but that sounds kinda weak/revenue driven. Anything the drug companies say or do is suspect. IMO they have considerable influence on how vet practices operate and the treatments they recommend .

There is so much conflicting info. Its not like if you get vaccinated for polio, youre not gonna get polio, period. I feel like its a 'damned if you do and damned if you dont' situation. If my dog got lepto, that would be very bad. But I couldnt live with myself if I killed him with the vaccine.


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## TTs Towel (Jul 10, 2012)

naturalfeddogs said:


> Yea, it can be treated fairly easily, .


It can be very difficult to treat and often causes severe, irreversible kidney disease. Initial symptoms can be very subtle and not easily recognized by an owner. No reason to act as if there is no benefit to vaccinating. Any responsible owner should evaluate their dog for it's risk and determine if the vaccine is a good idea for them. Basing a decision on blanket, internet opinions (even if they come from a vet) advocating for or against the vaccine is a terrible idea.


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## Boxers&Pom's Mom (Jan 17, 2011)

I took Bruno today for his last Distemper shot and rabies and was approach to give him that vaccine. The Vet Technician sound like it were part of his vaccines procedures and I told her, that I had never heard about it and I will not vaccinate him until I do my own research. 
When the vet came to the office, I asked him and kind of pushed him to the side, so he said to me that it is good if you live in a farm were is a lot of Wild Animals and also told me that it is one of the vaccines with more side effects.
I am so grateful that I am belong to this group, that had open my eyes and I been making better decisions with my dogs.


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