# A question of teaching a 'recall' to a distractible dog



## Huginn

Background:
So, I have been trying to come up with ideas for this for a long time. My BF has this adorable, sweet and smart, but stubborn and distractible beagle. I have known Ajax (the beagle) for a little over a year now and grown to love the little wiggle butt. The one thing that my BF has always wanted is to be able to let him run around off leash, but he is very scared to let him do this. Ajax gets any scent and is off following that, if you say "Ajax, come" he ignores you completely in favor or this scent, if he loses it or gets bored he will kind of sniff his way back to you, like "well, this scent just kind of led me to you, I wasn't really listening." He won't even look at you, but if he keeps the scent he will ignore you for who knows how long. There is a _little_ dog walking area where they live, its maybe the size of my living room and Ajax gets to walk/run around there off leash since it is gated and he can't dig out while we are watching him, so we have tested multiple times in there, after letting him roam around and sniff to his hearts content, he still won't usually come if you ask him to. He does when he is ready lol. Nate (the BF) worked with him when he was a puppy, but then let it go I guess (Ajax is now three). When his ex-wife lived with him, she had an older beagle that was Ajax's buddy and she would always (so I am told) come when called and Ajax would just follow her. But the other dog left with the ex and Ajax has no one to follow now. 
So here is my idea, I am going "home" this week and will have some spare time to work with the little munchkin, and Nate (he get's really nervous about things like this), so I have a plan and I was hoping for opinions on how well it will work. I have horses and I have a 20ish foot "lunge line" its really light weight so it won't drag him down, I was thinking of taking him to a local park, and letting him sniff around the areal while on the "short" six foot leash, give him plenty of time to smell and sniff and bay and do all those hound things he needs to do. When he starts to calm down, run through the few commands he knows really well, to get his mind working and then put him on the longer line. My plan was to do what I was taught with puppies to teach them the command 'come,' put him in a sit-stay and walk away, then give him the 'come' command and treat/praise when he does. I figure I'll do that a few times, and let him sniff and get distracted and then use the command again. He's really smart and I think he will pick it up quickly. Eventually, moving to longer and longer leash and then going to a fenced dog park, and attempting the off leash.
ETA: I know that this will be something that won't be fixed in a single week, but I am hoping it is a good start and something that won't seem to intimidated for Nate to work with him on until my next visit. 

I'm also hoping to enlist the help of Abi this week and her pack in getting him used to appropriately greeting dogs. He doesn't see others very often and gets way too overexcited, people in pet stores see the "cute beagle puppy" and let their dogs run up to him, Ajax gets excited and then panics and then tries to dominate, before I can stop the other dog. . . ugh. Anyway, Abi and I have worked out a plan for working on that since I have introduced to him to Rhett, once or twice. Just have to show Nate how to do it and get rid of _his anxiety_.
These two are a lot of work for me lol. They love each other so much I want to make their time together better, and Nate desperately wants to be able to let Ajax run around without the worry of losing him. 

So ideas, on the recall training?

A picture to ease the torture of my long winded-ness:


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## chowder

We had Shade for over 6 months before I was willing to even let him out the front door to run and greet anyone coming home because he would totally run off after everything and disappear. He's like your little beagle, gets the scent or sight of something and is gone.

We did recall training in the fenced back yard with REALLY high value treats and a clicker. I use my loudest clicker for recall training and it actually sounds different then the other clickers so I know that they can hear it from a distance. I started out just running from Shade and calling him to me (like a chase game) and when he got to me he'd get a treat (no leash on at this point). He eventually got to where he'd come to me from anywhere in the backyard when I called him. I have one of those really long leashes but I've found them to be more trouble then they are worth. Mine always got tangled and it was impossible to try and pull the dog back in on it if he ignored you on the recall. The 'chasing' game worked better for me. Then we graduated to 'sit - stay ' and then 'come' and get a treat. 

After a year, he's pretty good about being loose in the front yard but I don't think I will ever trust him 100% because he is just too distractable a dog. The other day he ran out to greet me when I got home and saw a pair of deer in the neighbor's yard. That was it, he was gone in a flash and we had to finally find him two yards over by the edge of their yard leading into the woods where the deer had vanished. I think it is just asking too much of him to totally ignore things like deer and bunnies when he see's them.


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## xchairity_casex

get yourself a long line (a super long training lead or just a piece of rope) you want it to be good and long atleast 50 feet and take some very high value treats. the way i like to start out is while the dog is on the long line hold it close while you walk around a grassy area like you would a normal lead every single time he looks up at you without your asking stop and give him a treat dont give any commands then after treating him about 5 times let slack on the lead and again walk in the same large circle over and over again everytime he looks at you or comes close to you give him a treat after about 10 times give a bit more slack on the elad continueing the same circle doing the same excersize looks at you or comes to you treat this is conditioning him to WANT to stay close to you and to WANT to give you eye contact and pay attention to you you want him to know that EVERYTIME he checks in with you by giving eye contact or jsut looking at you he gets rewarded. you would be very suprised at how this makes a do eager to pay close attention to your everymove!

once you are at the point where the lead is all the way let out keep walking if he put his nose on the ground and catches a wiff call him if he ignores give a tug on the lead and call him the second he comes to you treat him even if you have to pull him in treat him i would keep this training up for a month atleast with the everytime he looks at you you give him a treat even if hes learned to eat his treat then step in front of you to look at you right after treat him again,and again and again and again!


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## Huginn

chowder said:


> We had Shade for over 6 months before I was willing to even let him out the front door to run and greet anyone coming home because he would totally run off after everything and disappear. He's like your little beagle, gets the scent or sight of something and is gone.
> 
> We did recall training in the fenced back yard with REALLY high value treats and a clicker. I use my loudest clicker for recall training and it actually sounds different then the other clickers so I know that they can hear it from a distance. I started out just running from Shade and calling him to me (like a chase game) and when he got to me he'd get a treat (no leash on at this point). He eventually got to where he'd come to me from anywhere in the backyard when I called him. I have one of those really long leashes but I've found them to be more trouble then they are worth. Mine always got tangled and it was impossible to try and pull the dog back in on it if he ignored you on the recall. The 'chasing' game worked better for me. Then we graduated to 'sit - stay ' and then 'come' and get a treat.
> 
> After a year, he's pretty good about being loose in the front yard but I don't think I will ever trust him 100% because he is just too distractable a dog. The other day he ran out to greet me when I got home and saw a pair of deer in the neighbor's yard. That was it, he was gone in a flash and we had to finally find him two yards over by the edge of their yard leading into the woods where the deer had vanished. I think it is just asking too much of him to totally ignore things like deer and bunnies when he see's them.


That's a really good idea, to start as a game. I know when treats are involved, and once he knows they are, he is more than willing to listen. I wish we had a fenced backyard, but we just don't anymore. That's why I am hoping that this long leash will work. 
I kind of feel the same way about Ajax, it's in his blood to sniff things out and have US follow HIM, not the other way around. I'm kind of curious to see how it goes, we are ok if he is never able to be off leash outside of a fenced yard, but we are still in college and who knows how long it will be until we can afford that 
Thanks for your reply and I will not expect anything out of him too soon  
I'm excited to have Abi, helping me with him learning to greet other dogs  That is my big goal for the week.



xchairity_casex said:


> get yourself a long line (a super long training lead or just a piece of rope) you want it to be good and long atleast 50 feet and take some very high value treats. the way i like to start out is while the dog is on the long line hold it close while you walk around a grassy area like you would a normal lead every single time he looks up at you without your asking stop and give him a treat dont give any commands then after treating him about 5 times let slack on the lead and again walk in the same large circle over and over again everytime he looks at you or comes close to you give him a treat after about 10 times give a bit more slack on the elad continueing the same circle doing the same excersize looks at you or comes to you treat this is conditioning him to WANT to stay close to you and to WANT to give you eye contact and pay attention to you you want him to know that EVERYTIME he checks in with you by giving eye contact or jsut looking at you he gets rewarded. you would be very suprised at how this makes a do eager to pay close attention to your everymove!
> 
> once you are at the point where the lead is all the way let out keep walking if he put his nose on the ground and catches a wiff call him if he ignores give a tug on the lead and call him the second he comes to you treat him even if you have to pull him in treat him i would keep this training up for a month atleast with the everytime he looks at you you give him a treat even if hes learned to eat his treat then step in front of you to look at you right after treat him again,and again and again and again!


The line I have for now is 20ish. Enough for lunging a horse, if this works out we may look into a longer one to keep going with it. I know it will take a while. We've kind of been doing something like this when we walk to the dog walking area, on the way there he doesnt care if you have treats, but on the way back he watches you the whole time, walks with you and waits for his chance to get a treat. So, I'm really hopeful that this will work. I was thinking of giving him a "leave it" command and then calling him if he starts sniffing about. Do you think this a bad idea, he kind of knows "leave it" because when I was living there I was not ok with him trying to eat food off of my plate. 
Thanks for the suggestions 

Also when you guys say "high value treats" what do you mean by that exactly :redface:?


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## Maxy24

I love our long line, if I get ignored I can pull him in so he doesn't get rewarded for ignoring me. I also think running from your dog upon recall is super important for making it exciting for the dog. As soon as he starts coming your way, run backwards so he starts picking up speed. Then reward heavily when he gets to you and immediately release (pick a release word) so he knows coming isn't the end of fun time.


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## IslandPaws4Raw

Since you said he doesn't even come inside the house, I would start there. You want to start in an environment where distractions will be absolutely minimal, so he's set up for success every time. I like Chowder's method, because it would be really fun for the dog.If he hasn't been introduced to a clicker you can always use "YES!" as your marker for correct behavior. I would even back up a step and reward him for just looking at you when you call his name, and when he's doing that consistently you can add the recall training. 
The key to training a successful recall is ALWAYS reinforce it only when you know he will come. That way he learns that he has no other option when you call him, and it's rewarding for him. Eventually you should be more valuable to him than any distraction out there.

Good luck!


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## Donna Little

Sounds like a good plan to me and also sounds like good advice from the folks on here. 
I'm hoping today will be sunny and nice enough outside so I can do a little of that with my guys. Several of them are a lot like Ajax and chose to ignore me when they feel like it. It's good exercise for me too!
BTW, that is one of the cutest Beagles I've ever seen! :biggrin1:


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## xchairity_casex

"HIgh value" treat is a treat that the dog wants REALLLY bad like its the BEST treat in the world for them so like dry kibble is not a high value treat imo a high value treat has both a strong (good) flavor and a strong (good) smell i personally found that when they have a stronger smell to it like cheese or meat then the dog is able to pick up the scent of it on its own without your having to wave it in front of there faces to get there attention


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## Missy Mae

I use dehydrated duck for high value treats. That stuff stinks but my dogs love it.


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## xellil

I always wondered about high value treats. What would be the point of a low value treat? Who gives their dogs dry dog food as a treat? Is that really common? 

And if you use high value treats for recall, under what circumstances would you use low value treats? When you are training them to do something where you don't really care if they mind or not?


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## Maxy24

Well you wouldn't use LOW value treats, but a lower value treat. Use your highest value treats for the most important behaviors and for harder behaviors. For example a come command in the house might get freeze dried chicken which he likes and is excited for but is not one of his favorites. A recall at the park might get string cheese (his favorite that I've found) and a game of tug. I understand he had to work a lot harder to listen to me in the park than in the house so I want to make sure it's worth it for him so he'll do it again. He'll remember how rewarding it was to come when I called at the park. If he had nothing better to do than listen to me then there is no reason to make the reward huge, but if he really had to make a sacrifice I want to make sure he remembers that it was an awesome choice.


Of course you'd think, why not just always give the highest value treat. But if you do that you end up giving them a lot and the dog gets bored with them and they are no longer high value.

Some people do give kibble as treats, and more commonly they give commercial dog treats which can also be very bland. People are told never to give their dogs people food so they are limited. Once they realize they can bust out the cheese and meat the dog's start liking training a lot more lol.


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## chowder

I always used the "high value" treats for things that were particularly hard for them to concentrate on. Like when Rocky was a puppy, he was very shy and scared to leave our driveway or walk by other dogs or people. I'd break out what I call 'doggie twinkies' for that training. Things that he wouldn't normally get like bits of those rolls of Pet Botanical Dog Food that they sell in Petsmart that he absolutely LOVES! That stuff smells just like Slim Jims and he goes crazy for it. It was something that motivated him enough to conquer his fear of strange things but it's not something I'll give him handfuls of for everyday training. 

For every day training he gets ordinary value treats.... dried lamb lung is the usual. Not 'doggie twinkies' !


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## Scarlett_O'

Huginn said:


> Also when you guys say "high value treats" what do you mean by that exactly :redface:?


And I look forward to helping you, and the Beagle Butt!!:smile:

Oh and as stated "High Value" means the "O.M.G.-O.M.G.-O.M.G T.R.E.A.T!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" Treat!!!!LOL :lol:

(Im making pork heart and lamb liver treats for Rhett's vet appointment AND AJax's training...we shall see what he likes!:wink



xellil said:


> I always wondered about high value treats. What would be the point of a low value treat? Who gives their dogs dry dog food as a treat? Is that really common?
> 
> And if you use high value treats for recall, under what circumstances would you use low value treats? When you are training them to do something where you don't really care if they mind or not?


Hmmm...I never use "low value" treats....but there are the "just treats"-treats....or the "O.M.G.-O.M.G.-O.M.G T.R.E.A.T!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" treats!!LOL :lol:


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## Khan

All really good advise given. One thing I would add, is the use of a "Treat Can" 
It's a tin can, (Altoid) that you put little pebbles in and when you shake it, it catches their attention. You start out with saying nothing, and just shake the can. Every time you shake it, you give them a treat. They start to associate the shaking noise with treats! It saves you from calling "Come" over and over. especially when your in a situation where you know "Come" is not going to work!
You can incorporate it to you long lead work. When he's at the end, shake the can which hopefully will get him to look up from the scent, and redirect him to coming your way.
Just remember you need to get him conditioned to knowing what the noise is, and what it means (TREATS!!) 
Just shake and treat over and over at first. 
Hopefully this all makes sense!


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## Scarlett_O'

Khan said:


> All really good advise given. One thing I would add, is the use of a "Treat Can"
> It's a tin can, (Altoid) that you put little pebbles in and when you shake it, it catches their attention. You start out with saying nothing, and just shake the can. Every time you shake it, you give them a treat. They start to associate the shaking noise with treats! It saves you from calling "Come" over and over. especially when your in a situation where you know "Come" is not going to work!
> You can incorporate it to you long lead work. When he's at the end, shake the can which hopefully will get him to look up from the scent, and redirect him to coming your way.
> Just remember you need to get him conditioned to knowing what the noise is, and what it means (TREATS!!)
> Just shake and treat over and over at first.
> Hopefully this all makes sense!


OHHH...this is EXACTLY what my Mum reminded me of when we talked last night!!:wink:

We had a Basset growing up, and I guess I forgot about Clara-Belle's Treat Tin until Mum said it because it was so....well ALWAYS around!LOL

But yes...it worked GREAT for her, and if we happened to knock it over and she came....she got a treat, just for coming over!!

Thank you Gina.....TOTALLY forgot about it till Mum and you said something!!:thumb:


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## Huginn

OK, the high value treat makes total sense now. It was just a phrase I had never heard before. When we were training our pups when I was kid my mom used to buy some beef liver and use that for treats. I always hated the smell, but they went crazy for it. I tried string cheese with him a few weeks ago and he looked at me like I was crazy, so I will have to find something he really likes. Well, he's a beagle so he "really likes" just about anything lol, but I have only found one thing that he will stop tracking random scents for and that was a small piece of steak. 

Thank you everyone for all of the advice. He's never been introduced to a clicker so I will try the "Yes!" and the treat can sounds like something that would really work for him. We'll start inside the house today and see how it goes. I'm really excited to work on this with him. I really appreciate all of the helpful hints given here too.


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## Huginn

We did about an hours worth of come training in the apartment and he did really well, he knew I had a treat so he was never distracted from me though. When Nate gets home from work we will do some more outside, and with some distractions. 

I think I tired him out lol.


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## Scarlett_O'

Huginn said:


> We did about an hours worth of come training in the apartment and he did really well, he knew I had a treat so he was never distracted from me though. When Nate gets home from work we will do some more outside, and with some distractions.
> 
> I think I tired him out lol.
> View attachment 5183
> View attachment 5184


He is just SOOO cute!!

I cant wait to see him again this weekend!!:biggrin1:


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## Huginn

We'll have to have you meet us in the parking lot or something today, so that he can meet Rhett first and then go in. Maybe having a calm dog with him will reduce his drive to . . . do whatever he is doing when he "meets" other dogs.

I think he's pretty adorable too. Nate calls him "the permapuppy" lol.


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## Scarlett_O'

Huginn said:


> We'll have to have you meet us in the parking lot or something today, so that he can meet Rhett first and then go in. Maybe having a calm dog with him will reduce his drive to . . . do whatever he is doing when he "meets" other dogs.
> 
> I think he's pretty adorable too. Nate calls him "the permapuppy" lol.


Good idea...Im sure after his poke Rhett will be fine with coming out side for a little while!LOL

and hehe...we started calling Dixi and Brody that.....they are now known as "Leo's permapuppies"!!LOL :lol:


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## Liz

When we teach recalls - yes a friend has a beagle and another a weim. They are very difficult to train only because of focus. I try to find multiple things that turn them on. A couple of special treat, a toy or game something that will only happen on a recall. It took along time to get the Beagle to figure it out but once he did he went with it. Just finding what makes you more fascinating than everything else if the hard part.


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## Huginn

That may work with him. He just finds so many other smells more interesting than my smell lol.


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## Liz

I understand, adorable though they are hounds area difficult because their nose just rules everything. You will probably stumble across something that really light him up.


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## Celt

A really high value treat for my boys is called T-Bones. It's not even in the same galaxy as even remotely good food, but it's the only treat that Blaise will approach a "stranger" for. Generally, Blaise won't even think of approaching a stranger, but for these things, he will come close enough to get the treat.


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## Huginn

Well Abi, Rhett, Nate, Ajax and I all ventured to PetsMart tonight and, thanks to Abi, we discovered that Ajax loves liver and heart. It actually helped to distract him from baying in the face of every dog that walked by. By the end of the hour he was listening to Nate amazingly well. Haha, although Nate was a little hurt that Ajax was more interested in what treats Abi and I might have, or Rhett might be getting than what he was offering. But, if liver and heart makes him so interested in us vs things going on in one of the places he is the most distracted and anxious then, I think we found our high value treats. 

Celt, my boyfriend's roommates gave him some of those last year, and we had to make them stop. After one or two he was already itching enough that he was licking his paws and we couldn't figure out why until they told us that they gave him some of their doxie's treats. After that I won't chance anything like that for him, even though he loves the smell of them and will stand on his hind legs sniffing the air if they have the bag open. 
I work at PetsMart and there are some dogs that the only treat they will take from the cashier are T-bonz or Pupperoni lol. So, I know exactly what you are explaining.


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## Scarlett_O'

Huginn said:


> Well Abi, Rhett, Nate, Ajax and I all ventured to PetsMart tonight and, thanks to Abi, we discovered that Ajax loves liver and heart. It actually helped to distract him from baying in the face of every dog that walked by. By the end of the hour he was listening to Nate amazingly well. Haha, although Nate was a little hurt that Ajax was more interested in what treats Abi and I might have, or Rhett might be getting than what he was offering. But, if liver and heart makes him so interested in us vs things going on in one of the places he is the most distracted and anxious then, I think we found our high value treats.
> 
> Celt, my boyfriend's roommates gave him some of those last year, and we had to make them stop. After one or two he was already itching enough that he was licking his paws and we couldn't figure out why until they told us that they gave him some of their doxie's treats. After that I won't chance anything like that for him, even though he loves the smell of them and will stand on his hind legs sniffing the air if they have the bag open.
> I work at PetsMart and there are some dogs that the only treat they will take from the cashier are T-bonz or Pupperoni lol. So, I know exactly what you are explaining.


I was VERY pleased with how he acted...although poor Nate, I think he thought I was trying to take his doggie!!LOL (Not saying that the thought hasnt crossed my mind!!:tongue

Anyways...Im going to make him up some heart treats....Ill do soft and hard ones....tell Nate I will keep him stocked in pork, beef and what ever else we can get!:thumb:
(I also have a pretty good game plan if he wants to talk about raw, I would do nearly all the work!:wink


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## Dude and Bucks Mamma

I taught Dude using treats and a long line and Buck (bluetick coonhound) just doesn't care unless there are treats involved. His lack of caring makes me break out my "bad dog warning" voice. I have to yell "Bu-UCK!". It sounds almost like a question but it is that tone that our parents always used on us that clearly communicated that they were done putting up with our bs. That usually makes him sheepishly drop whatever he was doing whilst ignoring me and he will come back to me. This works in the house, the backyard, and the dog park. I have not felt comfortable trying him off leash in an unfenced area yet. 

He is a beagle so it will take longer than it would with a lot of other breeds but hounds are painfully smart with great problem solving skills so he will eventually get it.

When he is ignoring you... we call that "chronic nose deafness" in this house. I have always felt like, at birth, hounds are only born with the ability to use either their nose or their ears but not both at the same time. We all know that's not true but I feel it is to a certain extent. Yes, they can physically do it, but they have to be taught NOT to shut out their owner when their nose gets going. Hahaha.


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## Scarlett_O'

Dude and Bucks Mamma said:


> I taught Dude using treats and a long line and Buck (bluetick coonhound) just doesn't care unless there are treats involved. His lack of caring makes me break out my "bad dog warning" voice. I have to yell "Bu-UCK!". It sounds almost like a question but it is that tone that our parents always used on us that clearly communicated that they were done putting up with our bs. That usually makes him sheepishly drop whatever he was doing whilst ignoring me and he will come back to me. This works in the house, the backyard, and the dog park. I have not felt comfortable trying him off leash in an unfenced area yet.
> 
> He is a beagle so it will take longer than it would with a lot of other breeds but hounds are painfully smart with great problem solving skills so he will eventually get it.



OH, you will like this....when Ajax started baying at him Rhett got SUPER excited....I think he thought that Buck was stuck in that little body!!LOL :lol:

And Tif, I think if Nate will (which Ive found this is hard for guys...they dont like having to react right away) just do what you and I were doing, by automatically distracting him from said object.....even to the point of doing it BEFORE he has the chance to react(which is what I was doing with when that EB came around) it will REALLY help!:smile: I noticed that I had his attention, and if I kept talking to him I didnt loose it!:wink:


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## Huginn

Scarlett_O' said:


> OH, you will like this....when Ajax started baying at him Rhett got SUPER excited....I think he thought that Buck was stuck in that little body!!LOL :lol:
> 
> And Tif, I think if Nate will (which Ive found this is hard for guys...they dont like having to react right away) just do what you and I were doing, by automatically distracting him from said object.....even to the point of doing it BEFORE he has the chance to react(which is what I was doing with when that EB came around) it will REALLY help!:smile: I noticed that I had his attention, and if I kept talking to him I didnt loose it!:wink:


Ya I noticed last night that half of his "problem" is that Nate doesnt like to have to physically shove a treat in his face and go "hey look at me, I have a treat." He wants him to understand it without that, but Ajax just isnt there yet. I was really proud of him listening to us when he tried to go "off" on his own in the store, he did pretty well even with that Aussie that really wanted to play with him. I'll talk to you later about what Nate said about RAW. 

I was pretty proud of Nate too I have to say. Normally, we are in the store about five minutes and Nate gets so stressed over Ajax that we have to leave. He really kept his cool last night and did really well. Lol, having Rhett there was good for him too!

So, we are going to try the treat tin, get lots of heart and liver from Abi, and keep working and I think we will have a "good dog" (lol) by summer. He picks things up really fast, the hard part is getting the man to keep working with him while I am not here.


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## Huginn

Dude and Bucks Mamma said:


> I taught Dude using treats and a long line and Buck (bluetick coonhound) just doesn't care unless there are treats involved. His lack of caring makes me break out my "bad dog warning" voice. I have to yell "Bu-UCK!". It sounds almost like a question but it is that tone that our parents always used on us that clearly communicated that they were done putting up with our bs. That usually makes him sheepishly drop whatever he was doing whilst ignoring me and he will come back to me. This works in the house, the backyard, and the dog park. I have not felt comfortable trying him off leash in an unfenced area yet.
> 
> He is a beagle so it will take longer than it would with a lot of other breeds but hounds are painfully smart with great problem solving skills so he will eventually get it.
> 
> When he is ignoring you... we call that "chronic nose deafness" in this house. I have always felt like, at birth, hounds are only born with the ability to use either their nose or their ears but not both at the same time. We all know that's not true but I feel it is to a certain extent. Yes, they can physically do it, but they have to be taught NOT to shut out their owner when their nose gets going. Hahaha.


I have used my strongest "horse voice" with him. A tone that is not loud, but firm and crisp and has startled even the most unruly loose dogs on trail rides, but Ajax never even flicks an ear. He's just been allowed to "get away" with it for so long, that he doesn't even care anymore.


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## Scarlett_O'

Huginn said:


> Ya I noticed last night that half of his "problem" is that Nate doesnt like to have to physically shove a treat in his face and go "hey look at me, I have a treat." He wants him to understand it without that, but Ajax just isnt there yet. I was really proud of him listening to us when he tried to go "off" on his own in the store, he did pretty well even with that Aussie that really wanted to play with him. I'll talk to you later about what Nate said about RAW.
> 
> So, we are going to try the treat tin, get lots of heart and liver from Abi, and keep working and I think we will have a "good dog" (lol) by summer. He picks things up really fast, *the hard part is getting the man to keep working with him while I am not here.*


Ya, they both did pretty well!:wink: :thumb:

HAHA, isnt that nearly always the problem!?!?!LOL :lol:
(No offense to men...just true most of the time!:tongue1


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## Dude and Bucks Mamma

Huginn said:


> I have used my strongest "horse voice" with him. A tone that is not loud, but firm and crisp and has startled even the most unruly loose dogs on trail rides, but Ajax never even flicks an ear. He's just been allowed to "get away" with it for so long, that he doesn't even care anymore.


Haha. I know that kind of horse voice. Nope. Buck requires yelling at to get his attention most of the time. Once I get his attention, though, I don't have to yell anymore. It's almost like he has this wall around his mind that you have to get your voice through before he even knows that you are trying to get his attention.


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## StdPooDad

I have a cookie jar by my back door. Every time the dogs come through the door, they get a treat. Not a wonderful treat, but a treat nonetheless.

However, if I *call* them and they come walking in, then they get a high value treat (I have freeze dried salmon), just one or two.

If they come hauling a** in when I call them, they get jackpotted for about 30 seconds with the salmon.

I want them to know wonderful things happen every single time they come through that door, but if I call them and they run through the door, absolutely incredible things happen!




xellil said:


> I always wondered about high value treats. What would be the point of a low value treat? Who gives their dogs dry dog food as a treat? Is that really common?
> 
> And if you use high value treats for recall, under what circumstances would you use low value treats?


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## taem

The common theme in all dog training tips is high value treats. Problem with that for me is my puppy is not food motivated at all. Even the trainer in my puppy k class now acknowledges this. 

Puppy's not into exuberant petting and praise either.

What puppy is into, is running around like a nut, chewing on rocks, and eating rabbit poop and snails. Those are her highest value things in life.

So basically I'm screwed.


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## StdPooDad

Have you ever done "restrained recalls?" It's an amazing technique. Have a friend hold your dog (not just hold by the neck), but really get down and hold onto the dog around the chest. 
You walk away from the dog, always looking over your shoulder at the dog.

Get out high value treats (I know you said your dog isn't food motivated, but just go with this)

Turn around, face the dog, slap your thighs, tell her "are you ready?? are you ready??", get her really fired up.

Turn around and run like H**L, do NOT fake run. I mean run like you mean it. I promise your dog will chase you. When she catches you, treat her a *bunch*, walk her back to your friend, lather, rinse, repeat.


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## Liz

I do not use many treats but I do you toys, affection and play. About half the collies I have had are not food driven. They do however want to play and hang out with me. We had one girl who would do anything as long as you let her jump out and "hug" you while you petted her. Sometimes just being a little more aloof makes you more fascinating. I am not "cuddly" and don't really do lap dogs so when I train one on one it is their special time and they relish the attention, affection and play.


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## Maxy24

> What puppy is into, is running around like a nut, chewing on rocks, and eating rabbit poop and snails. Those are her highest value things in life.


Does your pup like to play? Tug is a great reward, or rough housing if your dog knows the rules. I will reward my dog by running with him (so he can chase and be chased) if he seems to be in that sort of mood. There are a lot of things dogs like that can used as a reward, the issue is using them in a training session is hard because when you are teaching something you need the reward to be relatively quick so you can repeat the behavior. That's why treats or tug are used most often, they are both commonly reinforcing as well as quick to deliver.


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## taem

Yeah I'm currently wracking my brain and trying all sorts of things to figure out how to train a pup who's not into treats or praise. All I was saying is that I think the dog world as a whole sort of misleads in pushing treats.


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