# An 8 month old dog with Gingivitis?



## MissusMac (Jan 6, 2011)

I dropped Miko off at the vet this morning and they said he had some stress squirts (but I really think it is from the egg we gave him last night- it was his first one. He never has a problem going to the vet) and she also said he had some gingivitis on his upper canines, so we'd have to start brushing his teeth. 

Is that really from just 7 months of kibble? No, less. He got his permanent teeth in at 4 months, so then 3 months of kibble can give gingivitis? I have given him RMBs for the past month, and I think he has beautiful teeth.


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## Love my lab (Dec 9, 2010)

Would love to know that as well. My girl has been on RAW for 2 months and 2 weeks and when she yawns in the cracks of her teeth I can see discoloration. The outsides of her teeth are pretty cleaned up, but on a few of her teeth I can see some discoloration...again in the cracks. I was just thinking it was from her kibble and would go away, but also thought by now it would be gone. I thought gingivitus was a gum disease?


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## cprcheetah (Jul 14, 2010)

Gingivitis can be genetic as well. Gingivitis is caused by bacteria in the mouth. I think yes a few months of eating kibble could cause it. I think with time the Raw will help the teeth, I know it's helped my crew. Shellie my golden needed a dental before I started her on raw, not bad just like a level 1-2 but with Raw, she didn't need it anymore. It does take some time though, it took a few months. It also depends on how the dog eats. Some dogs chew only with their back teeth so you might get some tartar on their front teeth. I used to use a gel called Maxiguard Oral Gel for gingivitis in my Chihuahua, it really helped. But now she's on raw...she doesn't need it. Gingivitis is caused by bacteria in the mouth. Another thing I have used with success is Petzlife Oral Cleansing Gel, it will actually get rid of tartar.


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## cast71 (Sep 16, 2010)

You can add a few drops of food grade hydrogen peroxide to the drinking water;0)

food grade hydrogen peroxide - Google Search


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

MissusMac said:


> I dropped Miko off at the vet this morning and they said he had some stress squirts (but I really think it is from the egg we gave him last night- it was his first one. He never has a problem going to the vet) and she also said he had some gingivitis on his upper canines, so we'd have to start brushing his teeth.
> 
> Is that really from just 7 months of kibble? No, less. He got his permanent teeth in at 4 months, so then 3 months of kibble can give gingivitis? I have given him RMBs for the past month, and I think he has beautiful teeth.


i believe this is what tom lonsdale was talking about when he was discussing his theory about kibble and dogs' teeth. 

when a dog gets permanent teeth, they get gingivitis, just as we do, as the teeth break through...that gingivitis is supposed to go away, but tom noted that with kibble fed dogs, it did not...and as the years go by, the gingivitis progresses.

gingivitus is inflammation of the gums and surely will progress into periodontal disease.

there are some dogs, just like people who don't have pearly whites, but their teeth are healthy....and will get more so, as raw is fed.....gingivitis should clear up as the raw diet continues.


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## schtuffy (May 17, 2010)

I started brushing Louis' teeth when I got him because I wanted him to get accustomed to it. My friend's dachshund is kibble fed, and _hates_ getting his teeth brushed, so needless to say his teeth are atrocious. I would brush his teeth at least 3 times a week when he was on kibble, but plaque and tarter just wouldn't stop building up. Louis got his full set of adult teeth by 5 months, and I'd say a month or two after that the stains became more stubborn. That's how I started my gateway into raw...I would give RMB's a few times a week, but that didn't really help either. As a matter of fact, it was probably 2-3 months into going full raw before I started to notice his teeth getting whiter. I'll try to post some pics when I get home...but basically on his canines there is still a thin strip of yellow/brown stuff close to his gums. His back teeth are a lot cleaner now than they were a couple months ago, but they still look like they are covered in a layer of gunk. When I took him to the vet, they didn't mention anything about it. I'm sure his teeth are wayyy better than a dog on kibble, yet I can't help but think...if I started him straight on raw, he wouldn't have most of this junk on his teeth to begin with...and that only months on raw has finally started to bring it down :frown: I also have a bottle of Petzlife, but he actually refuses to lick it or let me put it in his mouth (Louis usually doesn't hesitate to lick anything). I stopped brushing for awhile when we transitioned, but I am trying to do it 1-2 times a week now so I can at least get off the remainder from his kibble days.

So yea...he lost his last baby teeth in April, I started giving RMB's in June because of tarter build up, he went full raw in November, and now it's March and we're still getting rid of kibble stains


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## MissusMac (Jan 6, 2011)

Wow. Man, I wished I'd known about raw feeding before we got him... I could just kick myself! It's amazing how I really thought I'd done a lot of research before getting a puppy, but there was so much I didn't know about including raw feeding. The information out there is geared so much toward commerical diets and such that you really have to get into a forum to learn about it. That is how I found out about raw was through a pets board on a marriage forum.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

You'd be surprised the damage kibble does to animals teeth, let alone their entire bodies. It's dental pet awareness month (well, February was) and we have been holding a dental special to encourage people to get their pets teeth cleaned. It disgusts me that we get young animals in here with severe periodontal disease. Just this morning we had to pull three teeth from a three year old cat with bad gingivitis. Yesterday we pulled 9 incredibly rotten-nearly-falling-out-themselves teeth from an 8 year old dog. I could go on and on....

It's entirely possible for gingivitis to set in just several months. Kibble is full of sugars which just feeds bacteria, creating the perfect environment for them to reek havoc and cause serious damage. That bacteria then has the potential to spread to the vital organs via the bloodstream. Many animals that come in with severe dental disease have heart and/or kidney/liver issues because bacteria have done damage. It's pretty sad that something as simple as clean teeth can save a dogs life...

Dental proceedures are costly, risky and do damage themselves. The action of scaling tartar and pulling teeth aren't good for dental health. A more proactive approach is ideal and essential to optimum health overall. Raw meaty bones do just that, keep teeth clean naturally! BUT it's normal for raw fed dogs to have some tartar on their canine teeth...they don't use them to chew and crunch bones, so they don't get regular cleanings. I sometimes scrap this tartar off with my finger nail. 

MissusMac...dont beat yourself up. What's important is that you've switched now and know what is right. Just keep doing the right thing and be proud of it!!!


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## _Trish (Jan 31, 2011)

As another poster mentioned, sometimes a dog's dental health is genetic. My dogs have been kibble fed off and on for almost 5 years and have beautiful teeth, and I have not once brushed their teeth. They've always had plenty of chews though, we always make sure and have elk and deer antlers to chew on, and they get bully sticks pretty regularly as well. I recently started trying out PMR but, their dental health has been fine even when they were on a kibble diet. None of them have needed dentals, and the vet always comments on what great shape their teeth are in. Maybe they just have good genetics, or could be because they're given a lot of healthy chews. But, I do think that raw is healthier for their teeth, but I haven't had any negative effects from feeding them kibble. If I did, I would have quit feeding it a whole lot sooner.


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## MissusMac (Jan 6, 2011)

DaneMama said:


> MissusMac...dont beat yourself up. What's important is that you've switched now and know what is right. Just keep doing the right thing and be proud of it!!!


Thanks! He was on TOTW the whole time before switching to raw, so even "good" kibble can do it, I guess. 
Do you have any suggestions on things for him to chew on that would force him to use his canines?


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

MissusMac said:


> Thanks! He was on TOTW the whole time before switching to raw, so even "good" kibble can do it, I guess.
> Do you have any suggestions on things for him to chew on that would force him to use his canines?


seriously don't beat yourself up about this.....time is your friend.....

i have found that beef ribs, whole lamb necks...and all those bones they have to work to get that meat off....and makes them use all their teeth.....is what made my bubba pug mr. shiny..and they are notoriously bad teeth dogs.....

when we got him, the vet said he needed a dental. took about three months, but his teeth are blindingly white now : )


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## hcdoxies (Sep 22, 2010)

magicre said:


> i have found that beef ribs, whole lamb necks...and all those bones they have to work to get that meat off....and makes them use all their teeth....


I agree with this. I have 9 mini dachshunds - two of them (Lexi and Scout, the oldest) were kibble-fed for 5 years before starting on PMR - their teeth were bad. After 1.5 years of PMR feeding they didn't get better -this was chicken necks and cages with beef ribs just once. I recently discovered a source for venison -- they gave me a bunch of necks that I cut the meat off of. I got down to the vertebrae of the neck - a lot more meat but it was too difficult to get out, so I through them to the girls.

That was about 2 months ago, I think... And they've been munching on them off-and-on as I get them, and I'll leave them in the yard for a week or two for fun. Now Lexi and Scout's tarter build-up has reduced about 60%.

So, stick with those bony rec bones -- the necks have been wonderful.


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## CavePaws (Jan 25, 2011)

I'm also kicking myself in the but for feeding our 1.5 yr olds kibble...Their teeth look worse than Indi's and she is like 8 months older. The 18 month olds have tartar on their back molars that I didn't expect to be there. It is starting to go away and Puck, our 11 yr old who has eaten kibble his entire life is starting to look up teeth wise...His tartar was DISGUSTING.

So, don't kick yourself in the butt! I'm sure Miko's teeth will be fine once he's been on the raw diet longer. :] Look at how many people on here have seen such vast improvements with their dogs!


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## Tobi (Mar 18, 2011)

I didnt want to start a new thread but this is exactly what i would have started it about, so i am threadjacking it a little bit :lol: 
I noticed a little redness around Tobi's gums this morning i haven't noticed it before his breath doesn't stink but the redness concerns me and before i make an apt for the vet i just wanted to see if you guys thought it was vet trip worthy :smile:

here are some pic just taken. 









and the other side.









We have insurance for him so vet trips are all free and we also have a free teeth cleaning anually for him as well, his teeth are as white as can be but... i just don't understand the redness at the top of the teeth, does that look normal? Could this be from the bones rubbing against the teeth during mealtime?
Thanks


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## Jgk2383 (Oct 27, 2010)

gorgeous teeth! Which insurance do you have?


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## Tobi (Mar 18, 2011)

Jgk2383 said:


> gorgeous teeth! Which insurance do you have?


It is through Banfield, its actually called an optimum wellness plan but for some reason i always call it insurance  
Ironically for being owned by a big pet food company my vet is the only one that we have found in our area that is not vehemently against raw feeding :lol:


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

Teeth look great and I don't see anything w/ the gums to be the least bit concerned with. Anybody would be happy for their dog's teeth/gums to look like that.


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## RaisingWolves (Mar 19, 2011)

Tobi, I'm glad you posted....my 13 month old pup has the some slight redness along the gum line. 
Her teeth are pearly white like Tobi's teeth.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

i'm not a vet nor am i a dentist....but his teeth look gorgeous. he is a fair skinned dog, which can influence the colour of his gums...and if you're talking about the very slight redness above two of his teeth, i'd say this dog is fairly new to raw.

how old is tobi?

and how long has he been on raw? 

if i remember, i suspect he's a youngin' and he hasn't been on raw for very long. so both can cause a bit of gingivitis...which should go away as he gets a little older and is on raw a little longer.

he does NOT need a dental. THAT much i know.

and he is such a beauty.


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## Tobi (Mar 18, 2011)

RaisingWolves said:


> Tobi, I'm glad you posted....my 13 month old pup has the some slight redness along the gum line.
> Her teeth are pearly white like Tobi's teeth.


 Well we got some good answers! :smile:

Magicre, he is a youngin still lol he just turned 9 months, and he's been raw fed for about a month now so like you're saying it could be the transition from actually having to use his teeth :lol:


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

Tobi said:


> Well we got some good answers! :smile:
> 
> Magicre, he is a youngin still lol he just turned 9 months, and he's been raw fed for about a month now so like you're saying it could be the transition from actually having to use his teeth :lol:


at what age do dogs start and stop teething? because that's what it looks like. those gums are beautiful except where they meet the teeth and that looks like the gingivitis from teething.....or getting used to raw meaty bones.....but i'm not an expert on puppies.....hell, i'm not an expert on raw, except in my own mind LOL


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## RaisingWolves (Mar 19, 2011)

magicre said:


> at what age do dogs start and stop teething? because that's what it looks like. those gums are beautiful except where they meet the teeth and that looks like the gingivitis from teething.....or getting used to raw meaty bones.....but i'm not an expert on puppies.....hell, i'm not an expert on raw, except in my own mind LOL



My pup is 13 months old and lost all her baby teeth by 8 or 9 months old, but she still has a powerful urge to chew. I give her moose and deer antlers for chewing......although yesterday she found our logictech remote control ($170 on sale) and annihilated it within a few minutes!:shocked:


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## Grandiose (Apr 2, 2011)

magicre said:


> at what age do dogs start and stop teething? because that's what it looks like. those gums are beautiful except where they meet the teeth and that looks like the gingivitis from teething.....or getting used to raw meaty bones.....but i'm not an expert on puppies.....hell, i'm not an expert on raw, except in my own mind LOL


They should have all their adult teeth in by 6 months. They start losing puppy teeth around 4 months, and if you have a puppy, you should be watching their mouth for retained puppy teeth that can mess up the way adult teeth come in. Teeth that come in crooked or mis-aligned can cause mouth problems down the road (including being painful to chew - which can explain why some dogs refuse to chew things with certain parts of their mouths.)


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

so, at nine months...they can still have a little gingivitis from all of their teeth breaking through and going into raw?


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## MissusMac (Jan 6, 2011)

That is EXACTLY what Miko's teeth looked like a month ago, and that is what the vet called gingivitis, but Miko's seems to be going away. I don't think you need a dental... do they put him under for that? I definitely wouldn't put him under for something so minor. Miko is 9 months old, too, and been fed raw for 2 months.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

just my opinion....it seems to me that teething and being new to raw are two good reasons to cause a little gingivitis....and to those whose dogs are older like mine.....it takes time and learning how to gnaw and crunch and eat like a real dog.

my 11 year old malia lost a tooth to a cavity....i didn't even know dogs could get cavities...but there it was, according to the vet, going right up to her brain, that's how big it was ( he was kidding, kind of)...and i believed him....he had no reason to lie about the size of the cavity and the need to pull her tooth....and we did.

today over a year later.....my dogs' teeth are white, especially the pug who...who are notorious for having crappy teeth....they have learned how to eat raw...there IS a learning process and it takes some longer than others.

hold off on those dentals for a bit....and let raw do its work.....and as they start eating up the food chain to beef....those beef ribs are yummy and good for teeth and even edible bone like pork ribs and goat ribs and lamb ribs....and chicken bone...

it'll all do its job.....in time.

unless your dogs were smokers...in which case there might be some permanent staining : )


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