# NEW to feeding raw diet to dogs and have some questions



## nicoley2132 (May 26, 2017)

Hi,
I am brand new to feeding a raw diet to my dogs, we are on day 5. I have two dogs, one is a 35lb blue heeler,(which im already seeing INCREDIBLE changes with,she broke her pelvis last year which results in her not using that leg to much, just within the last 5 days shes using the leg 80 percent of the time already PTL and feeling so good!) and i have a 45 lb collie/border collie mix with possible auto immune issues. (we have a vet apt next week to confirm that idea) her nose has been peeling for about 3 months now, we thought it was just sun burnt so didnt think much of it) shes actually what got me to start researching and figuring out how to help her homeopathicaly. Now my main questions are how to achieve a fully balanced diet. I live in a small town in Idaho where most of my meat resources will be coming from our local butcher shop. He has agreed to give me beef livers,kidneys,hearts and beef and lamb bones i asked for ribs?, but mostly beef. Im sure i will also get venison during hunting season as well. So far this is what im feeding: (i know im leaving out the bones as of right now because i dont have any yet from the butcher but will next week for sure) 
Deer meat,chicken gizzards, chicken liver -which makes up 75 percent of the meal. Then i add fruit in the morning and vegetables and greens at night. for the other 35 percent. then i add one per day of our fresh eggs including shell, 1000 MG of fish oil twice per day, coconut oil, 1/2 teaspoon of ginger and Keifer for probiotics...is this diet close to being balanced with enough vitamins and minerals? or should i add a supplement to ensure balance. Thank you so much for your feed back.


----------



## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

First of all, welcome! Second, you are feeding way to much unnecessary stuff. Dogs have no biological need for fruits and veggies. What little they may get out of some of those, is already in raw meat/bones/organs, and in a biologically available form. 

You are giving oils WAY to often. Fish oil about three times a week is fine.

liver and other organs....It sounds like you have way too much of those going as well. As the rule goes, and it's only a guide not ground in stone, but organs should only make up roughly 10% of the overall diet. They can be given in very small amounts daily, or larger amounts weekly. Less is actually more with organs. They have vitamin A, which in large amounts is toxic. It's vitamin A toxicity. 

You may may not need any probiotics, if you feed raw correct. Dogs only need three things...meat/bone/organ. Nothing more. It's a species appropriate diet so their bodies generally adjust accordingly. Those three things in raw form supply ALL the nutrients a dogs body needs.

The ginger and kiefer, just stop for now.


----------



## nicoley2132 (May 26, 2017)

ok thanks for the input! I have seen several ways i guess you could call it to raw feeding. Some people only feed meat/bone and organ like yourself, as where others incorporate the veggies,eggs,and supplements. As far as the kefir,coconut oil,and ginger goes, i thought they were to serve a specific need in my pets, such as my heelers arthritis the ginger is a natural inflammatory , and the fact that they have been on a pretty low quality food for a long time makes me feel the need to replenish there gut flora with the raw kefir i make.And i have a overload of fresh eggs lol. As long as i follow the bone/meat/organ guidelines all this other stuff is just extra then correct?could it hurt? Learning a new way of doing things is a bit confusing when there is so much material out there that contradicts others.


----------



## nicoley2132 (May 26, 2017)

would you be willing the give me an example of the exact diet,recipe,and portions that you use for your dogs?


----------



## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

nicoley2132 said:


> ok thanks for the input! I have seen several ways i guess you could call it to raw feeding. Some people only feed meat/bone and organ like yourself, as where others incorporate the veggies,eggs,and supplements. As far as the kefir,coconut oil,and ginger goes, i thought they were to serve a specific need in my pets, such as my heelers arthritis the ginger is a natural inflammatory , and the fact that they have been on a pretty low quality food for a long time makes me feel the need to replenish there gut flora with the raw kefir i make.And i have a overload of fresh eggs lol. As long as i follow the bone/meat/organ guidelines all this other stuff is just extra then correct?could it hurt? Learning a new way of doing things is a bit confusing when there is so much material out there that contradicts others.


People who feed BARF style raw add fruits and veggies, but to feed true raw is to feed prey model. Whole chunks of meat bone and organ. As far as for joints and inflammation go, feeding parts like chicken feet and trachea are wonderful for that. Natural sources of glucosamine. The gut flora will replenish itself with the correct diet. 

Coconut oil oil is added fat, will help the skin and coat, and does have some other benefits, but it doesn't need to be fed every day, IF you want to give it. It also isn't an omega 3 source, so it won't be beneficial in that way. That's where fish oil comes in. And even then, only about 3 times a week is usually enough.

can the rest of that stuff hurt? Well, not likely, but they won't add any benefits either. Just fillers pretty much.


----------



## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

nicoley2132 said:


> would you be willing the give me an example of the exact diet,recipe,and portions that you use for your dogs?


Ill feed boneless for a couple of days, then bone in a couple, and organs weekly with something bone in.

beef cheeks
beef brisket
pork ribs
venison 
chicken quarters 
turkey necks
beef liver
beef/chicken heart
beef kidney 
chicken gizzards
lamb

These are just examples of some of what I feed. I don't portion or weigh anything. I feed according to body condition, and feed mostly meat, some bone and some organ. Fish oil about three times a week. That's all I feed. Period.


----------



## nicoley2132 (May 26, 2017)

Thank you very much for the advise! Tonight i fed my first bone in chicken thigh, my heeler loved it and chewed it right up, the collie took some coaxing to get her to eat it before she finally dove in. Tomorrow i will feed a smaller drumstick with some beef on the side to add more meat, and ill hold off on the liver until monday since ive been over-dueing that. How many times per day do you feed? ive been feeding twice..?


----------



## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

I personally feed once, but you can feed twice if you like. One of mine gets a small mid morning snack, usually chicken feet because she gets an upset tummy sometimes when it's empty.


----------



## OtherGuy (Nov 30, 2016)

The thing about fruits and vegetables is that they add starches/sugars/carbohydrates into the diet, and these (rather that contributing positively as a supplemental nutritional source) have negative health consequences.

Carbohydrates disrupt the normal preference for fat metabolism that PMR fed dogs kick into on this diet. Burning fat (as opposed to carbs) makes a very substantal difference in vitality in dogs, as fat conversion to glycogen provides a nearly inexhaustible suppy of energy (delivered on demand) vs the peaks and crashes of metabolizing carbohydrates.

Carbs in the diet also messes with the pancreas by forcing the organ to produce Amylase.

Then there is the number that sugars and starches do on dogs teeth. Look at PMR fed teeth and you'll see a profound difference.

Best in my estimation is to get those carbs out of the diet. They provide no nutrients not already supplied by animal products, and have negative downsides.

More later.

Bill


----------



## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

Yep, I forgot completely about mentioning starchs and sugars. Definitely a reason NOT to add them to the diet. Like I said earlier, meat/bone/organ supply all a dog needs. Nothing more.


----------



## OldGnarlHead (Feb 17, 2016)

Yeah, I agree on the fruits and veggies. Also causes diarrhea in my dog... There are some non-species-appropriate things that can be added in occasionally, like garlic or coconut oil that can be beneficial for thing like skin and flea management, but those are not necessary and not great in excess amounts. I try to stick as closely to what my dog would eat 'in the wild' as possible.


----------



## nicoley2132 (May 26, 2017)

ok! that makes sense on the veggies! you mentioned you do not really portion anything when feeding you feed according to body condition...i have 35 and 45lb very active dogs! id like to feed about 2 percent of there body weight which comes out to about 1 or so lbs per day...that doesnt seem like much food to me? like when i put just meat in the bowl it looks like not enough...is that just me or since its raw and way more nutritious i dont need to be feeding big ole proportions? Jenny you have cow dogs that are about the same activity level and size i would imagine? you would be willing to post a picture of what one of there meals looks like? i feel like i need to see it


----------



## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

Start with a pound and go from there. If weight drops, add more. If weight gains too much, back off. I replied to your other post on the amounts to feed. Of all 6 of my aussies, none eat the same amount. They range in size and activity level so much. They go from the activity level of a basset hound to incredible energy that takes a good bit to fuel, and everything in between. 

Play at with the amounts of food you give. You know your dog and will soon know what is going to work for them. 

We will help guide you along as you go.


----------



## OtherGuy (Nov 30, 2016)

nicoley2132 said:


> ok! that makes sense on the veggies! you mentioned you do not really portion anything when feeding you feed according to body condition...i have 35 and 45lb very active dogs! id like to feed about 2 percent of there body weight which comes out to about 1 or so lbs per day...that doesnt seem like much food to me? like when i put just meat in the bowl it looks like not enough...is that just me or since its raw and way more nutritious i dont need to be feeding big ole proportions? Jenny you have cow dogs that are about the same activity level and size i would imagine? you would be willing to post a picture of what one of there meals looks like? i feel like i need to see it


Remember, PMR meals are very dense nutritionally. Also as you build up the amount of fat in meals realize the calories in fat yeild 2.25 times as much energy per gram as compared to carbohydrates (or protein).

Kibble fed (carb-based) dogs generally need a transition period where the fat percentages of meals are limited (until the dog is conditioned to fat metabolism) but after that the key IMO is to feed adequate amounts of fat to highly active dogs. To do this "by eye" would nean that the "meat" portion of meals would be about one-third fat.

Seconding the other advice, feed by coiondition. If the dog gets too skinny feed more, and vice versa.

The only caveat to the above is that raw fed dogs tend to naturally develop more "wild type" bodies, where they carry less body fat and get more muscular/athlectic. This is simething to encourage.

Bill


----------



## OldGnarlHead (Feb 17, 2016)

Also with Bill on the body condition note- definitely don't freak out when (and I mean when) your dog's body starts changing. Your dogs might seem muscly and lean, but I guarantee they will start getting more of a tuck in their bellies and seeing a little rib is a very good thing. We thought our dog was a solid mass of muscle until we switched her and she got so much more lean and cut, and lost a lot of belly paunch we didn't even know she had. So don't freak out right away! Promise it will be okay and weight can always be gained back.


----------

