# Ear Cropping Video. Be warned, it's pretty sad.



## CorgiPaws

I came across this tonight in my internet surfing. I was surprised to see the entire thing on youtube... I'm not sure why I was surprised, isn't everything on youtube??
Three videos, the first is of the actually cutting process involved in ear cropping, the second is the trimming and perfecting, and the third is the stitching. I will warn you, it is pretty graphic, but it isn't exaggerated at all. Just a raw video of the process, in a clinic. Don't watch if you have a weak stomach, and cropping does not apply to you. DO watch if you are thinking about having it done to your pup. Whether you do it or not is ultimately your decision, but at least know what it's like. 

While I am certain this will turn into a cropping debate thread, I personally won't go there. I'll just say that watching these entirely CONFIRMED my feelings on such brutality. 

the cut


the trim.

the stitch.


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## CavePaws

...It's so sad. :/

edit: 4:24 seconds in the first video. Pause and have a good hard look, people. I don't agree with ear cropping. My boss and I were actually talking to a client who claimed it doesn't hurt the dog a couple of weeks ago. I was honestly in complete and utter shock. I wish I could show them this video, because I highly doubt they stayed in the room and witnessed their puppy losing 3/4 of its ear.
edit again: that being said ear cropping did serve a purpose back in the day when a lot of breeds were actually used for work and not just cut up for good looks.


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## bernadettelevis

I watched the first few seconds but i had to stop before they actually cut...
It's so sad.
I'm glad that in Austria it is forbidden, however most dobe owners take their puppies to different countries to have it done. They can't be showed though.


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## DaneMama

It's also sad to think that many puppies are lost during this procedure. Just to get ears to stand up unnaturally straight. I think is a selfish and cruel thing to do to a dog. Hands down....


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## bernadettelevis

and you gotta love those ears!!!!!


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## whiteleo

It's so disrespectful to the dog and should be outlawed in this country! I couldn't watch the video because I knew what was coming for that poor puppy.


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## Tobi

I couldn't watch this either... I have had dogs that could have had their ears cropped but i didn't have it done as it does seem cruel and painful. 
It's a shame like others have said that all this pain is just for a certain look it isn't fair to the dog that doesn't have a choice in the matter.


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## Savage Destiny

To be perfectly honest, I don't think that ear cropping for a certain look is any worse than breeding dogs like English Bulldogs who can't even give birth without a C-section. But nobody ever seems to have a problem with that sort of thing.


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## DaneMama

Savage Destiny said:


> To be perfectly honest, I don't think that ear cropping for a certain look is any worse than breeding dogs like English Bulldogs who can't even give birth without a C-section. But nobody ever seems to have a problem with that sort of thing.


I actually have a huge problem with people breeding English bulldogs. I personally think that the breed needs to be outcrossed to improve the overall health of the breed. I may get flamed for saying this but this is one of the breeds that I feel needs to be "saved" genetically. Or it's a breed that should not be bred any longer.


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## whiteleo

But there are several breeds that need to have C-sections when having puppies. The Frenchie is one, Bulldogs, many small breeds, are we going to change all the specs. of those breeds so they don't have to have C-sections? Cropping is strictly for looks, whether for the owners insecurities, certainly not for the dogs!


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## 3Musketeers

it was so bloody too, bah why do people do that just for looks? The puppy has to go through all that just because the owner wants the dog to look a certain way. True Tobi, the dog wouldn't choose to have their own ears cropped. People who like bat-ears, or ears that stand should get a breed who's ears stand naturally.
What's next, cropping your children's ears to make them elves?
With danes and dobes you end up with ugly bar-ears anyways -_-. With the other dogs, they don't even have ears left =/.


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## 3Musketeers

I also think breeds like English Bullies, Pugs, Frenchies, the ones that need C-sections or can't reproduce normally should have some outcrossing for their sake. Not to mention I've seen way too many fat English Bullies, with the exception of my neighbor's, who has a waist, yes, an English Bully with a waist. But the poor thing can only sprint back and forth maybe 3 times before it's totally out of breath.


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## DaneMama

whiteleo said:


> But there are several breeds that need to have C-sections when having puppies. The Frenchie is one, Bulldogs, many small breeds, are we going to change all the specs. of those breeds so they don't have to have C-sections? Cropping is strictly for looks, whether for the owners insecurities, certainly not for the dogs!


True....but English bulldogs have a lot more health problems than frenchies. Overall they are not a healthy breed. 

You also have to remember that a lot of dogs are bred entirely for their looks. These dogs don't have a say in what they look like and it's sad when their looks cause health problems. Cropping is done completely for looks, and English bulldogs are bred primarily for their looks.


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## SerenityFL

I refuse to watch those videos.

I just want to know why people can't accept their dogs the way they came out.


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## nikkiluvsu15

I don't know about cropping (the breeds that I love, or plan to own at some point, don't have cropping), but in the "early" days was cropping done for a reason (on certain breeds)? As in, were they cropped for what they were *bred* to do. Dane's used to hunt boars, correct? Is that why they were traditionally cropped? Obviously they no longer boar hunt, but just wondering because IF there was a purpose when they were being used for what they were bred for I can go with that, but if all along its just been for "looks" I dunno.

I know docking was, and still is, done for a reason. Not on all breeds (of course), but for most of the sporting/gun dog breeds it is. For instance the reason the Vizsla tail was cropped was because it was thin and would get cuts, infected, broken, etc., from going through all the brush while hunting. The V's tail is traditionally only cropped about 1/3 of the way, as it is the tip of the tail that is very thin and "whip like", compared to a Labs tail which is very thick and well padded. (I know some are against docking too, and I'm fine with that, just thought I would use it as an "example". Some breeds do tail dock just for "looks" now, which I'm not a fan of, but some do have a good purpose for it)

While I do love the look of cropped breeds, if I were to ever get one, I'm pretty sure it would go un-cropped.


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## Angelwing

Bulldogs almost always need C-sections, pugs quite often but not always, some other breeds often as well. I think breeds that can't give birth themselves is terrible and something desperately needs to be done about it. And dogs with breathing issues is another huge health concern that needs to be addressed. I don't understand why nothing is really being done about issues like this.

Ear cropping is terrible. Tail docking did serve a purpose for many breeds, but it's still not very nice. Currently tail docking is still a requirement in Canada for me but I'm almost leaning towards not getting it done for my future puppies. It's a hard decision.


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## Savage Destiny

whiteleo said:


> But there are several breeds that need to have C-sections when having puppies. The Frenchie is one, Bulldogs, many small breeds, are we going to change all the specs. of those breeds so they don't have to have C-sections? Cropping is strictly for looks, whether for the owners insecurities, certainly not for the dogs!


Um... why exactly would anyone have a problem with changing standards so that dogs could give birth without surgery? Cropping is strictly for looks, but breeding for smashed in faces and turned out elbows certainly isn't for the dog's health, its for looks and looks alone. There is zero difference in my opinion, both cropping and breeding for things that cause health problems are things that cause pain strictly for the sake of looks. Look how many GSDs have joint pain becuase they're bred for that sloping back so they can win in the show ring. 

Its all one and the same.


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## KlaMarie

Yeah.......I know I'm probably going to step on some toes here but, guys we do this to our children too! After seeing a circumcision performed in person, I think it's completely barbaric! There is no medical reason to do it, and even the doctor doing the procedure made a comment about how he really doesn't understand why parents have it done anymore. And the babies aren't knocked out for it like the puppies are.


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## Angelwing

Yeah, if I were to have children and one of them a son I wouldn't circumcise. They don't knock out puppies for tail docking, either.


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## CorgiPaws

Angelwing said:


> Yeah, if I were to have children and one of them a son I wouldn't circumcise. They don't knock out puppies for tail docking, either.


no, but the process AND recovery time are night and day between tail docking and ear cropping.


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## Angelwing

Oh, I know. They're all cruel but ear cropping is by far the worst.


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## Savage Destiny

PuppyPaws said:


> no, but the process AND recovery time are night and day between tail docking and ear cropping.


This is so true. I have zero problem with tail docking. No lasting pain, no recovery time, no long term effects at all.


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## JoeynZoey

This is a very controversial topic on all boards that I am a member on especially because of the breed I own the American pit bull terrier. Personally, it's just a preference choice and it's not an act of cruelty if done properly by a licensed vet all in my opinion. I don't believe going further into a debate would benefit here since every answer has practically opposed ear cropping as a very cruel deed. I am not particularly seeking a debate either. That is just my honest input regarding crops as I don't find it an act of cruelty when performed and taken care of properly. I have natural ears on my girl but I love her rose pricked ears. I also love a good proper crop I certainly wouldn't frown upon someone's preference decision on an ear crop for their dog. I suppose I can certainly relate with people pointing hatred fingers towards you based on a personal preference choice. Most honest owners that I knew who had the procedure performed on their dog(s) told me their dog did not signify any actual pain other than the itching during the healing process.


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## bernadettelevis

I think it is just cruel! Like at the moment at the dog park, there is this dobe puppy, i guess he is 4-5 months and he has to wear a "wire splint" or something like that so that his ears stay up :/ He's not even allowed to play!


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## KittyKat

Since there is no actual purpose for it, besides looks, I see it as a pointless operation. I love the natural ears and tails on a dog, and if you don't like them, then you shouldn't get that breed.

I also think that breeds that cannot give birth without a C-section need to be cross bred until they can... it's a horrible result of bad breeding based solely on looks.


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## Boxers&Pom's Mom

I been seeing this thread and deciding not to look at it. Finally curiosity bring me back. I open the first video and I was not able to look at it. 
I am always said that I should be a vet, but this things I can not see myself doing it. Are all the vets doing it or some refuse to do it?


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## Bessie7o7

Okay, so my question may be a little off topic but I always see it and it is in this video as well. Why do some vets and/or assistants/nurse, not wear gloves. Doctors for people always wear gloves.

On topic: Thx for the video. It should be watched by anyone who may want to have this procedure done.


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## Northwoods10

Can't watch it.

I've always wondered about the tail docking though....how painful that is for them. Obviously Remi's tail is docked, but I believe it is done for a reason, and not just for looks. It still makes me wonder though, and I hate to ever think of him being in pain.


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## DaneMama

Tail docking when done at 2-4 days old causes minimal pain. The pup may cry out for a second but that's about it. That early on it's not imprinted on them for life. If done later when they have to be sedated, I don't like that. Tail docking and dew claw removal are about the same in my book and both are acceptable albeit unnecessary.


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## KlaMarie

Bessie7o7 said:


> Okay, so my question may be a little off topic but I always see it and it is in this video as well. Why do some vets and/or assistants/nurse, not wear gloves. Doctors for people always wear gloves.
> at least
> On topic: Thx for the video. It should be watched by anyone who may want to have this procedure done.


Maybe they don't consider it a sterile procedure? If it's just a clean procedure, the gloves are more to protect the staff from blood-borne diseases (at least in people medicine it is).


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## pandaparade

DaneMama said:


> Tail docking when done at 2-4 days old causes minimal pain. The pup may cry out for a second but that's about it. That early on it's not imprinted on them for life. If done later when they have to be sedated, I don't like that. Tail docking and dew claw removal are about the same in my book and both are acceptable albeit unnecessary.


Glad to know you feel that way. I would love an aussie with a tail but boy are they hard to find from a breeder. The next aussie I get, ohhh the breeder will be looked at from head to toe and hopefully I can end up getting one with a tail.


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## bernadettelevis

pandaparade said:


> Glad to know you feel that way. I would love an aussie with a tail but boy are they hard to find from a breeder. The next aussie I get, ohhh the breeder will be looked at from head to toe and hopefully I can end up getting one with a tail.


WHAT :shocked:?! I've never seen a Aussie without a tail!!! Well maybe because docking isn't allowed anymore in Austria, but still! I didn'T know they also dock aussies!!!


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## RaisingWolves

I've been debating whether I should weigh in on this thread. As you can see by my avatar, we cropped our boxer's ears( 9.8 years ago). 

We made the decision not really knowing what to expect. I can tell you this for nothing....I was very upset the evening we brought our boy home from surgery. My husband sat up with our whimpering boxer all night. 

The morning after surgery I called the surgeon (who only cropped boxer ears for a living) and asked for pain killers. They told me that they would not prescribe pain meds because they needed him to feel his ears....in case he decided to try and ram the top hat off. I don't know if any of this has changed- or if it's normal, but our surgeon specialized in boxer ear cropping. Many boxer breeders would travel to him for this procedure. 

We were also very lucky with ear taping....our boy's ears stood after two tape sessions (2 weeks). I saw boxers in the doctor's office who had been going for weekly tapings for 6 months!
I would never do it again. 

I personally believe tail docking and dew claw removal is equally cruel. If I ever add another boxer to my home it will be a from European lines....a boxer with his tail, ears, and dew claws. BTW, my boxer has his dewclaws and they have never been a problem. 

Also, it has been said on boxer forums that floppy ears are more prone to ear infections, while cropped ears are not. This has not been my experience. My floppy ear boxer girl lived her entire life without one ear infection(amazing) and my cropped boxer has had two in his life. 

If you find the ear cropping video disturbing....don't watch the tail docking and dew claw video. It's heart wrenching! These babies are awake and crying the entire time they are amputating body parts and sewing them up. No one can convince me they are not feeling pain!!!!

Tail docking....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylu41b8m1qw&feature=related

YouTube - Jack Russell Terrier: Puppy's tail docking part3


Dewclaw removal-
YouTube - Jack Russell Terrier: Puppy's tail docking part3


World of Small Animal Veterinary Association's statement on tail docking....

http://www.wsava.org/Taildock.htm


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## DaneMama

I want to make it clear to those who believe cropping ears is to prevent ear infections is complete hogwash. If someone wants to prevent ear infections, they should try feeding a species appropriate diet first and foremost...removing the majority of a dog's ears is not the solution 

And if anyone has spent any amount of time around young puppies, it's common for them to fuss and cry like the one in the above tail docking video, just from being handled. I actually didn't hear the pup cry out in pain when they actually cut through the tail. Some puppies do and some don't. While I think this way of tail docking is acceptable, I don't think it's necessary and if I owned a breed that standard was a docked tail, I wouldn't have it done. 

Panda- you can contact an Aussie breeder before the litter is born and ask for a "pet quality" puppy and request for a natural tail. This is what my dad did to get his Aussie with a tail...and I will say that I prefer it much more than the docked look.


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## CavePaws

RaisingWolves, thanks for sharing your experience. Your Boxers ears do look really nice - if it is any consolation. I'm so sorry they didn't give your dog pain medication though, that's just terrible.

I've always wanted a Dogo Argentino, if the ears are cropped nicely they look wonderful. This doesn't mean I would ever even consider cropping ears though, I just couldn't do it...Besides, the floppy eared dogos look just as good.


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## RaisingWolves

DaneMama said:


> And if anyone has spent any amount of time around young puppies, it's common for them to fuss and cry like the one in the above tail docking video, just from being handled. I actually didn't hear the pup cry out in pain when they actually cut through the tail. Some puppies do and some don't. While I think this way of tail docking is acceptable, I don't think it's necessary and if I owned a breed that standard was a docked tail, I wouldn't have it done.



I've never seen a puppy that young in person so the crying is really upsetting to me! According the the WSAVA, there is strong evidence they have developed nerve endings and are experiencing pain. It's hard to know for sure if what they say is true. I think it's as bad as ear cropping. 

We have our first whole tail in our home and we are thoroughly enjoying it!:biggrin:


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## 3Musketeers

Puppies that are days old usually whine/cry a lot, all day, all night, except right after a meal when their bellies are full of milk, lol. Then they nap, for a little bit...
I don't like tail docking or dewclaw removal either, tail docking depending more on the breed. I'd accept a dock on a boxer more than on an Aussie. Which is funny, at work I've seen a few Aussies, only one has a full-tail, and it looks sort of like a border collie, has a nice thick tail too, no reason to have them docked.

My Popi did have one dewclaw on her hind leg removed when she was 2 days old, but it was on one leg and the floppy kind that aren't attached to the bone, kept the front ones on. I figured I'd rather have it out then than have it get ripped or stuck on something once she's older.


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## Janet At Nutro

I feel it is very cruel. Fewer vets will even do the procedure. I like my danes to have the natural look!


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## Lisa_j

UGH.... difficult topic for sure. My danes ears are natural because they are rescues and I never had to consider or make that decision. I have floppy ears in my pack and ears that stand. None of mine have or have had ear infections. Of course maybe because when their nails are dremmeled weekly, their ears are checked too. I am a firm believer in the blue cleaner and sqirt them if any doubt...........ANYHOW......I just don't know how I feel. If I were to breed great danes, my danes would not have their ears cropped, Why would they, what is the point???? 25 yrs ago my hubbys family did breed them and they cropped, I am not really sure why. I will admit, my rescue GSD, I may have taped to make stand, just because I wanted them to stand! My yorkies are all rescues, didn't care if they stood or not!


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## Northwoods10

So, I have a question for those of you against tail docking.

If it were to benefit your dog by preventing injury by doing something it is meant to do (hunt), would you still be against it? 

A GSP tail, if left full length is long & thin. Very susceptable to injury out in the field & woods where they hunt. 

I'm certainly not for hurting a young innocent puppy (or adult for that matter), but if it could prevent future injury...thats worth it to me. 

A friend of mine had a lab that had an unusually thin tail and she ended up injuring it at flyball over and over again, she had to get her tail docked, not once but twice. The first time they didn't take enough off, it got re-injured and she had to have more taken off. I could definitely see Remi getting hurt if he did have a full tail in some of the places he's hunting.


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## Angelwing

pandaparade said:


> Glad to know you feel that way. I would love an aussie with a tail but boy are they hard to find from a breeder. The next aussie I get, ohhh the breeder will be looked at from head to toe and hopefully I can end up getting one with a tail.


Some aussies are born with naturally short bobs. I'm not sure how often this occurs, though.


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## Northwoods10

Further more....I'd like to share this discussion on the GSP board. I did a search for tail docking and found this:

new here, tail docking question > GSP Forum > shorthairs.net

The picture in this thread is exactly what I'm talking about. If its a working/hunting dog....I am all for it.(or that which has become a problem to even a pet) 

If its for cosmetic reasons....I think its a matter of selfishness.


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## Savage Destiny

Northwoods10 said:


> The picture in this thread is exactly what I'm talking about. If its a working/hunting dog....I am all for it.(or that which has become a problem to even a pet)
> 
> If its for cosmetic reasons....I think its a matter of selfishness.


Unfortunately, docking needs to be done at 2-3 days old before the pups can really feel the pain. At that age, there's no way to tell whether or not a pup is going to be in a working or pet home. Their personalities just aren't that developed yet. And docking later means anesthesia and a long painful recovery.


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## Northwoods10

Savage Destiny said:


> Unfortunately, docking needs to be done at 2-3 days old before the pups can really feel the pain. At that age, there's no way to tell whether or not a pup is going to be in a working or pet home. Their personalities just aren't that developed yet. And docking later means anesthesia and a long painful recovery.


I realize that, but I believe that the breeders are taking the responsibility of the pups well being into consideration by doing this beforehand. In our case, where we got Remi, I would say that 90% of these dogs going out are doing some form of hunting or working. They are a hunting breed, its in their bloodlines. Of course it depends on who they sell a pup to, but I will also say that our breeder was very concerned about what we would be doing with Remi. They wanted him in a home that was active in dog sports or hunting. And I'd like to think that most of the sporting dog breeders that DO dock tails are in the same spot. I can't say that is true for other breeds, simply because I don't know much about them and why they would need a docked tail.


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## RaisingWolves

Northwoods, I can understand the need to dock tails of a working breed. Boxers are classified as a working breed however; today boxers are not used for what they were originally bred for. Boxers were bred to hunt bears and wild boars. 

Docking a boxer's tail in the US is done solely to meet AKC standards for cosmetic reasons(some may argue medical reasons). European countries have banned boxer tail docking. 


Here is a snippet from an excellent article about boxers and tail docking.

*History*

*

The boxer's ancestor, the "Brabant Bullenbeisser" was used to hunt bears, wild boar and other game in pre-firearm days in Germany. Those powerful dogs were required to hold the animal down until the hunter arrived to kill the game. To make them less vulnerable to injuries inflicted by the struggling game, the Bullenbeissers' ears and tails were cropped as a precautionary measure. The custom was kept in the boxers, even though this breed was probably not used for hunting. The exact status is not entirely clear, though: according to the German kennel club's breed information, the boxer was not a hunter, but the American Kennel Club states the contrary. It is undisputed, however, that the boxer was a popular military dog during World War I, and the cropping of ears and tails was continued to give the dogs a more intimidating look.

*Present*

*

Most boxers today are either companion dogs or show dogs, so tail-docking is usually done for medical reasons or, more commonly, for cosmetic reasons to adhere to certain appearance preferences. According to the American Kennel Club "an undocked tail should be severely penalized" in a dog show, and this look is prevalent among boxers in the United States. Medical reasons include bone cancer in the tail area, other tumors, or fractures or deformations that require the amputation of part of the tail. The common argument that customary docking prevents a high number of tail-injuries cannot be supported by veterinary evidence.

*Procedure*

*

Essentially, tail-docking is the amputation of part or most of a dog's tail---the hindmost part of the spine--in a surgical procedure. Usually performed within the first five days of a puppy's life without anesthesia, the procedure requires cutting through skin, muscles, nerves, bones and cartilage. More seldom a tight rubber band is used to cut off the blood supply, causing the length of the tail to fall off eventually. In boxers, only two mobile vertebrae are customarily left in a cropped tail.

*Welfare Implications*

*

Tail-docking is painful. How much pain is inflicted and how long the pain lasts, however, is not entirely clear. Only a few studies have been done and are not fully conclusive. Some studies suggest that the pain may even exceed the duration of the healing process as a result of tissue damage, others hint at higher rates of incontinence in docked dogs because the upper tail muscles are connected to the muscles controlling anus functions and pelvis strength. In addition, customarily docked breeds such as the boxer are more likely to suffer from perineal hernia.
*
Further Implications*

*

As an actual back extension the tail helps the boxer to keep his balance and stabilize his body during fast movements. It is also an important communication tool for the boxer, so docking his tail affects his ability to express his current mood. An erect tail, for instance, may signal aggression or animation; a ducked tail may express fear or submission. Cropping his tail may interfere with the boxer's ability to interact with his environment and this may lead to serious consequences as the dog's intentions can easily be misinterpreted.


Read more: Why Do You Crop a Boxer's Tail? | eHow.com Why Do You Crop a Boxer's Tail? | eHow.com


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## CavePaws

Northwoods10 said:


> So, I have a question for those of you against tail docking.
> 
> If it were to benefit your dog by preventing injury by doing something it is meant to do (hunt), would you still be against it?
> 
> A GSP tail, if left full length is long & thin. Very susceptable to injury out in the field & woods where they hunt.
> 
> I'm certainly not for hurting a young innocent puppy (or adult for that matter), but if it could prevent future injury...thats worth it to me.
> 
> A friend of mine had a lab that had an unusually thin tail and she ended up injuring it at flyball over and over again, she had to get her tail docked, not once but twice. The first time they didn't take enough off, it got re-injured and she had to have more taken off. I could definitely see Remi getting hurt if he did have a full tail in some of the places he's hunting.


To answer your question with my opinion, absolutely not. While I still think it is painful to the puppy, I don't think it is an unnecessary procedure for dogs who have a line of work in which their tails or ears might be mangled. When it comes down to it, some people don't just have their dogs as pets, they have them as working animals, and if docking the tail is going to help the dog survive that line of work with less injury then I don't have much of a problem with it. I'm not condoning dog fighting, but I am saying that people do dock their dogs tails or take the ears off for a reason, and this is one of the main reasons Bully breeds were cropped at first. I think the look just stuck now, because everyone seems to think the most bada$$ fighting dogs don't have ears to grab, so if they want their dog to look bada$$, off with the ears! That I don't condone. A big floppy ear is an easy target for an animal that is in pain and trying to grab anything it can. 

If I were to use a Dogo Argentino for Boar hunting I would have to look at the number of times Dogo's are injured by a boar grabbing the ears and ripping...If the incidence were a high one I might consider cropping the ears...Although I don't think it is because I'm almost positive the danger with Boars lies in their tusks.


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## Northwoods10

RaisingWolves-

I appreciate you explaining that to me. As I know nothing about other dogs that aren't traditionally used for hunting and why their tails would be docked. As I mentioned above....when it serves a purpose, other than a preferred appearance, I will support it. (Tail Docking)

As for ear cropping.....again, if it serves a useful purpose, to help the dog to refrain from injury while hunting, it may be a good idea. But I'd imagine ear cropping has to be done when the dog is older and the ears are more devoloped? As for cosmetic appearance & doing it because the dog may be faught, well, obviously that would be something I would not support.


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