# Anxiety Medication?



## Little Brown Jug (Dec 7, 2010)

Boone's had issues with anxiety all his life, at this point it isn't horrible at least I don't think so but maybe thats because I've become used to it. Some people we run into have remarked how much of a sin it is and that his mind must never rest. The vet told me that dogs like him tend to get worse as they age. I've been beating around the bush, see sawing about getting him on meds for it. A customer at work an my co worker were talking about Clomicalm as his dog had bad anxiety and now is a completely different dog. I'm just not sure I like the idea of "drugging" my dog but then I feel bad that his mind is going 200mph 24/7.


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## Jack Monzon (Jul 25, 2010)

What type of anxiety is it? Separation? Fear of dogs/humans?

I too would be curious if anyone has any experience with these types of medications.


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## maplewood (Apr 14, 2011)

What kind of anxiety?

I've dealt with a lot of seperation anxiety with out meds. It depends on the owners dedication to seeing their get better.


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## Syd (Apr 6, 2011)

Rescue Remedy is cheap, effective and works great.


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## CavePaws (Jan 25, 2011)

Rescue remedy can work for some dogs. 

One of my dogs has extreme fear aggression. She is so amped up all the time that the slightest of things can set her off if we aren't careful. I've done a lot of thought and cried over putting her on meds, but in the end we had to do it. It was the last option I had as far as giving her any hope of leading a "normal" life...By normal I mean one where she can relax somewhat around strangers and other dogs. She takes 20 mg of Fluoxetine (Prozac) and it has helped in numerous areas. It isn't a cure all and she has an intense behavioral therapy program so my opinion is that medication without behavioral modification is literally just drugging your dog to try to solve the problem - and it hardly ever works like it should. The point of putting your dog on meds for behavioral issues is to give them enough time to "re-wire" their brains so that when they have made enough progress you can eventually start weaning them off. 

I'm really opinionated about this. Before you put your dog on medication you need to consult a behaviorist. I'm serious, don't just blindly ask the vet to put the pup on doggy xanax. Try the behavioral therapy route. It took me over a year and a half to really decide to give my dog meds. That was after we exhausted all routes of behavioral therapy and realized she wasn't going to get any better unless we gave her brain a chance to chill out and really "take things in". There is no learning going on when she is at a level 10 of arousal, the point of meds is to keep her between levels 1-5 of arousal so that she is still learning. Anywhere past level 5 and she isn't learning she is in complete flat out panic/murder mode. The reason I am pretty okay with putting her on meds is because my dogs behavior is dangerous to others and herself. She is not joking one bit when she becomes aggressive towards strange people and dogs. I'd rather see her spend a year or two on meds than be put to sleep for killing someone's dog or injuring a person.

Rescue Remedy can work, I've used it on my dog a few times, but it isn't anything like medication at all. Peaceful Paws is another one you can look into, I use it on Indi every once in a while but rescue remedy and Peaceful Paws don't touch the anxiety a bit.


edit: Also! Any good vet will ask for a recommendation from a Behaviorist before prescribing you medications like this.
So you know, there are side effects to most medications like this. What I have seen so far with Indi on Fluoxetine is:

Increased heart rate
Extended periods of rapid panting after exercise
Increased consumption of water
Will sleep a tiny bit more

Fluoxetine is a drug that is meant to increase the serotonin in the dogs brain. I actually take 20 mg of it myself and it has increased my quality of life. It does help with forms of anxiety other than fear aggression with dogs. But it can also increase aggression in some animals - which is one reason people who are Bipolar are not supposed to take selective-serotonin reuptake inhibitors without mood stabilizers. Fluoxetine is not like Barbiturates such as Alprazolam (xanax) as it does not cause as much sedation. SSRIs are a completely different class of medications than Barbiturates, this is one reason I think you really really really need to see a behaviorist who is experienced in the effects of mood medications in dogs because they will know what your dog should take. You need to find a vet who is actually savvy about medicating dogs like this as well. A lot goes into this, you need to have bloodwork done fairly often to make sure your dog is getting the correct therapeutic dose AND has no damage to their internal organs. Medicating your dog is not something that should be taken lightly.


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## eternalstudent (Jul 22, 2010)

Dog appeasement pheromone (DAP) has also been show to be effective in a lot of cases of mild anxiety you can get it as either a diffuser for the room or as a collar. It is not in the same league as SSRI's but might be a place to start.


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## Little Brown Jug (Dec 7, 2010)

Anxiety over just about everything except seperation. The poor mite is just constantly worrying, paranoid that everyone is out to get him. If its just me him and Woof he's pretty good. But toss in some other people (be they strangers or people he's known his whole life) a strange sound, a sight, new place etc. and the shaking starts, the obsessive circling, the shifty eyes, creeping around... its almost become a normal behaviour to be around for me. He just hardly ever calms down and relaxes. He's been fear aggressive and high anxiety ever since he came into the shelter at 3 months old. Its gotten better (almost 3 years later) but the thought of him getting worse scares me and I want him to just be able to relax for once, not be in such a panic and paranoid state of mind.

I've tried several natural calmers but they either give him explosive diarrhea or just don't seem to have any affect on him. I consulted a behaviourist about it previously it didn't help. His brain just doesn't stop. The behaviourist was actually quite intrigued by his circle behaviour, said he has seen it and dealt with it before but never to the degree of this. He also has/had a slight heart murmur. The last check up the vet wasn't able to detect it so we aren't sure if its gone now or just couldn't be picked up. I'm honestly worried one day he's going to keel over from a heart attack. 

This is a rather horrible quality video of his circle behaviour in the house I lived in previously. He wore the grass away and there was large dip in the ground by the time I moved. He also does it here, where he is not fenced in nor tied up. it wasn't because of the small yard as he has plenty of space now yet still circles, in the same direction and always a perfect circle. He'll do it even when he's so tired/dizzy he's stumbling around like a drunk. 




Since adopting Woof its helped. He seems to calm/gain confidence when around another dog. He was without a "brother" for about a year as my lab/pit mix was put down due to various health problems and I really noticed a difference in him while he was the only dog. Woof has helped slightly but getting him on some serious medication seems to be the only other option at this point.


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## Jack Monzon (Jul 25, 2010)

Rescue Remedy and the DAP never did squat for my dog, who is painfully anxious with humans he doesn't know.

*CavePaws:* I sent you a private message. Sorry for the public message telling you I sent you a private message, but I realized recently that the forum no longer defaults to private-message notification if you have one waiting for you.


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## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

Awww, poor Boone. My heart really goes out to him. You really wonder what on earth someone did to an innocent 3 month old puppy to have such an affect. 
My SIL has a rat terrier x that is manic. Pee's everywhere, on the go 99% of the time, barking, running up and down the fence, a right pain. When I was up there last year it struck me how calm he was and how he just seemed to be a lot happier within himself. It really was remarkable the difference in him. She told me that he is on Prozac. Although, I must say in her case, some exercise, some discipline, some training and some one on one attention, some different environment other than the house 24/7, would have gone a long way. In a lot of cases I think drugs are a lazy shortcut. 
Your dogs aren't emotionally neglected like the rat terrier though, they have a life any dog would be lucky to have so I would not feel bad if this is the next step you have to take, even if it is a trial to see if it does help him.
Good luck, I hope you can find something that will help him.


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## CavePaws (Jan 25, 2011)

There are so many questions and inferences that pop up into my mind when I look at that video but I am not an expert so my advice is only opinion based on my limited knowledge. I think you need to find an expert in your area and let them see the video and examine your dog. Talk to them and get a plan going, they will evaluate the situation and give you an idea of all the routes you can go. Behavioral modification is my first recommendation. Going to a really skilled behaviorist you will learn a lot and if they are any good they will tell you how to manage it at home, I suggest your read books on fear and anxiety in dogs. I won't lie to you Fluoxetine is extraordinarily cheap, I get a bottle of 30 for $5 and know stores which have pharmacies often carry it on their $5 dollar list. I am in no way saying this is the medication that would suit your dog.

My main questions are:
How often does he display the incessant circling behavior?
How long does it last at most and at least?
Is it in your absence that he does this or displays other odd behaviors that last a while?
Are there other behaviors like incessant licking of a spot on his body or inanimate objects? (the floor, the couch, the wall, etc.)
How much exercise does he get?
Is this limited to indoor and outdoor?
What is his trigger zone with people and dogs?

The list could go on and on and we could talk about it for hours without me knowing enough. I have school work to do right now so I'm really condensing things to the bar minimum. :[

The fact is, yes he could get worse. These behaviors and fear aggression are both self-reinforcing. He does it and gets something out of it every time. The circling is a displacement behavior, just like incessant licking, and with fear aggression his best defense is a good offense. It's gotten to the point where I honestly think lashing out at other dogs gives my dog some type of high, it is so rewarding in the fact that it makes others flinch and back away (just what she wanted in the first place, distance) Things like this are so complex and it is so incredibly hard to figure out the root cause without the help of an extremely accredited/skilled behaviorist. Do your research on a good behaviorist and go from there. If you want to nip this in the butt you've got to look at it from a behavioral stand point. No matter how much mood effecting medications we give our dogs it is only masking the symptoms of the illness itself - we have no "cure" for anxiety other than behavioral therapy and sometimes that won't "cure" everything either and you really do need medication to help. If we could counsel our dogs in a language we both knew it would be pretty easy to help, too bad we can't communicate so well. 

My biggest peeve about giving my dog medication is the guilt of not being able to tell her of the risks, benefits, or even the way it will change her. I am giving her something that is in a sense altering her personality and the way she acts and she doesn't even "know" or have the choice to decide if she should take it or not. It's not really "fair" in my opinion, but it's the best I can do in the situation I've been presented with.


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## Little Brown Jug (Dec 7, 2010)

I'd love to know myself what the heck happened to Boone before he came to the shelter. I don't think it’s all due to abuse though I think he might just not be wired right... maybe a chemical imbalance or something but there was definitely some abuse prior to meeting him. A 3 month old puppy doesn't start snarling, spinning and snapping at people upon first sight for no reason. He bit a couple people before I was finally convinced by co workers and the little voice in my head and took him home at 5 months old and then he had to wear a muzzle until he was almost a year old because when out on walks should we pass someone he'd have a go at them. Other dogs he doesn't care unless they over step some boundary of his. Its people, mainly men and children he has huge issues with. 

At the time of the video and when I called the behaviorist in he was getting 4+ hours of exercise a day. Not just a stroll around the block but hikes out in the conservation area and games of fetch. He was rarely left alone as he went to work with me at the pet store every day. Interacted with customer's dogs great, and would sneak up to customers give them a sniff before running back to his bed behind the counter when they turned around. He had his bed behind the counter to go to if he wanted to get away. Circling happens inside and out, as soon as he gets a little excited, worried or afraid it starts the degree all depends on his level of arousal there are times they are slow large walking circles and then there are pivoting on one paw and going around just like a spin top. Not a day goes by he doesn't do it and it doesn't matter if I'm there or not. The only thing he does obsessively is circle, there are times it drives me right up the wall and other times you don't even know he's in the house he's so quiet and still, curled up in his bed in the corner. The behaviorist was really interested in his degree of stereotypical behavior especially considering all the attention and exercise he received and basically told me to keep on doing what I was doing and when ever he started to circle interrupt him.

His behavior doesn't get worse with less exercise though, it stays the same. Behaviorists around here are slim to none. I’m in a small “town” and in area where many see dogs as disposable; they should sleep outside and be hunting partners or guard dogs. I was told once on a walk that Woof was as good as bear bait because of his tendency to bolt and not come back until he’s good and ready. I don’t have the options I had when I was in Toronto down here. I’ve been working with him since he was 5 months, he’ll be 3 years old this summer and he’s better then he was, his biting has gone down drastically (he’s snapped maybe 2 – 3 times since moving here and each time to members of my family and in a circumstance that they should have known better then to try and touch him) as has his fearful urination but he’s no where near normal and stable. I feel like the only option left is to get him on meds… not because I want to take the cheap and lazy way out (I'd rather avoid drugs if possible) but because I've gone down just about every other route possible.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

It sounds like you've done everything possible. He is lucky to have you to not give up on him.

I have a dog that is also obsessive, although not aggressive - it's very difficult. I actually tried some medication once but he couldn't sleep, paced the house all night or just stood with his head against the wall, so I stopped giving it to him.

Good luck, it seem like he had something terrible happen to him as a puppy.


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## CavePaws (Jan 25, 2011)

It may be a chemical imbalance. Have you had his thyroid checked? I'd seek a behaviorist out and tell them you are looking into medication, some will do online/over the phone consultations. Like I said if they're any good they can set you up with a way to fix this behavior yourself.

edit: and if it comes down to it and you can't find a behaviorist online, I might be able to get you in contact with my boss. She is a great behaviorist, but really busy too so I don't know how much time she has for over the phone/online consultations. I don't know if she has ever even done over the phone/online consultations!


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