# Carbs



## NicoleSmith (Jun 25, 2011)

I feed my dog with raw food. I feed her salmon with brown rice. Many owners neglect to feed their dogs with carbohydrates but this is a big mistake because the dog's body needs carbohydrates to break down protein.


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

NicoleSmith said:


> I feed my dog with raw food. I feed her salmon with brown rice. Many owners neglect to feed their dogs with carbohydrates but this is a big mistake because the dog's body needs carbohydrates to break down protein.


Thats absolute baloney. The dog's body don't need anything to break down protein. It is well equipped do handle that task all by itself. It's been doing so for a million years without the need for carbs. I would really like to know where you get this very flawed information.


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## Tobi (Mar 18, 2011)

NicoleSmith said:


> I feed my dog with raw food. I feed her salmon with brown rice. Many owners neglect to feed their dogs with carbohydrates but this is a big mistake because the dog's body needs carbohydrates to break down protein.


On top of what bill said, complex carbohydrates in my mind are harmful to dogs and cats as it puts extra strain on their pancreas to create the necessary enzymes(amylase) to break them down, and even then they cannot sap nutrients from them.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

Tobi said:


> On top of what bill said, complex carbohydrates in my mind are harmful to dogs and cats as it puts extra strain on their pancreas to create the necessary enzymes(amylase) to break them down, and even then they cannot sap nutrients from them.


on top of what everyone has said, why would you post this in the picture thread?


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## 3Musketeers (Nov 4, 2010)

Be *VERY* careful with raw Salmon:

*Washington State University - Salmon Poisoning Disease
Merck Veterinary Manual - Salmon Poisoning Disease*

Also *carnivores*, (dogs, cats) do not need any carbs/plant matter in their diet. This is like saying that *herbivores* (cows, deer) need meat in their diet.

Please, *pllleeaassse* do your proper research on a raw diet. Improper feeding, such as not feeding organs/bones, or feeding something such as raw salmon could end up harming your pet, and nobody wants that. In most cases it's these kind of people who go on to say that raw diets are bad.
If you have any questions feel free to ask, but stating information that probably originated form a kibble company won't help anyone.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

magicre said:


> on top of what everyone has said, why would you post this in the picture thread?


dunno why, but this made me do a literal lol.


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## Cain (Feb 14, 2011)

NicoleSmith said:


> I feed my dog with raw food. I feed her salmon with brown rice. Many owners neglect to feed their dogs with carbohydrates but this is a big mistake* because the dog's body needs carbohydrates to break down protein*.


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

I'm glad you came to join us here on DFC. There is a wealth of knowledge to he had around here and I do hope you will stick around... I feel as though we can teach you quite a lot about the dietary needs of canines. Unfortunately, you have been fed some misconceptions that kibble companies would love for you to believe, such as the idea of dogs needing carbs.


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## NicoleSmith (Jun 25, 2011)

Thank you for the correction. I've always thought that dogs still need the extra carbohydrates like humans do. I hope I won't get the wrong information again.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

NicoleSmith said:


> Thank you for the correction. I've always thought that dogs still need the extra carbohydrates like humans do. I hope I won't get the wrong information again.


i think we all did at one time..or a good many of us did....we humanised our dogs and we humanised their nutrition needs....

and one day, the light bulb goes off and we either read or realise that oops....dogs are not human...do not need nor use carbs...what have i been thinking all of these years........

we live. we learn. welcome to the forum. stick around....ask lots of questions....


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## JayJayisme (Aug 2, 2009)

NicoleSmith said:


> Thank you for the correction. I've always thought that dogs still need the extra carbohydrates like humans do. I hope I won't get the wrong information again.


Point of fact, humans need very little carbs, and like dogs, NONE of them should come from grains. Like carnivore dogs, we omnivore humans have not evolved to efficiently metabolize grains, even highly processed ones. We are better suited to eat protein and animal fat, rather than carbs. As magicre said, not only do we tend to humanize our dog's nutrition needs, most humans really have no idea what they should be eating. Everything that comes out from the USDA, FDA (or any government agency), the medical industry, the agriculture industry, the pharmacological industry, and the mainstream media is a load of bull, and the chronic illness that has plagued our society over the last three or four decades proves it. 

Whole Health Source: U.S. Weight, Lifestyle and Diet Trends, 1970- 2007

We can learn a lot from our raw fed dogs if we eat the ancestral diet that we have evolved to eat.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

JayJayisme said:


> Point of fact, humans need very little carbs, and like dogs, NONE of them should come from grains. Like carnivore dogs, we omnivore humans have not evolved to efficiently metabolize grains, even highly processed ones. We are better suited to eat protein and animal fat, rather than carbs. As magicre said, not only do we tend to humanize our dog's nutrition needs, most humans really have no idea what they should be eating. Everything that comes out from the USDA, FDA (or any government agency), the medical industry, the agriculture industry, the pharmacological industry, and the mainstream media is a load of bull, and the chronic illness that has plagued our society over the last three or four decades proves it.
> 
> Whole Health Source: U.S. Weight, Lifestyle and Diet Trends, 1970- 2007
> 
> We can learn a lot from our raw fed dogs if we eat the ancestral diet that we have evolved to eat.


i think it may be two generations after me, but they will be the first that won't outlive their parents.....pretty creepy, eh...

you be preachin' to the choir here, bro...

and processed carbs are the reason humans have heart disease, pancreatic cancer, diabetes, obesity...the morbid kind...for you can be fat and not be unhealthy.....

carbs are bad. especially processed carbs. dogs and humans...not so different, after all.

but since this is a dog forum, i'll stick to what is natural for them...humans get to figure it out on their own....

all the research we do for our dogs...ask yourselves...do you research what you eat, as a human?


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## SonyaBullyDog (Jun 6, 2011)

You guys got me interested, does anyone know of a good website on human nutrition? I basically live off of sandwiches, cereal, and coffee... Sonya is the only one who eats healthy in the family hwell:


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

I go to a naturpath and he recommends most all carbs should come from fruit and veg. If we have rice it is brown or red rice, beans, lentils and quinoa are carb staples and we eat those in very small amounts. It save a fortune in junk food and even the kids get used to eating this way pretty quick. I do have dairy products and eggs also of course. The doctor has a book on proper nutrition, I can remember the title but the doctor's name is Andrew Iverson.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

it's really pretty simple....but it took a lot of roads to get to what i personally believe....

there are so many websites, i wish i could remember all of them...but i would jump from site to site....

i remember when atkins started and barry sears started their campaign to reduce processed food in our lives.....they were a little unbelievable in their beginnings.......that's the real enemy....not an apple...apples are pure vitamin c and fibre for the body....

in the end, it turned out they were right....especially barry sears....with his zone diet....and even that had to be refined as his knowledge grew...

it's the processed food that's killing us. start with that and there's a whole bunch of food you will no longer eat.....the biggest culprits being breads and cereals.....and food in a box....fast foods...

when diabetics stopped eating processed foods, which include but are not limited to bread, cereal, store bought anything that didn't look like the original food...their insulin needs decreased.....not all of them lost weight....but the two are not necessarily connected....

if people don't have certain organs, metabolism is going to be tough....

but if people would just eat what's on the perimeter of the store...vegetables.....low glycemic starches such as sweet potatoes, not white potatoes...(anything white is useless)....

if they would eat whole fish, not canned....beef, not necessarily lean.....humans need fat, too, for digestion....and energy....to save protein from catabolising.....always protect the protein....everyone needs protein for growth healing creation of marrow, red blood cells, platelets....bones...organ health...

no dairy...we are a mammal and mammals wean....we are the only mammal who doesn't wean and not only don't we wean, we drink the milk of someone else's mommy...the cow....and everyone accepts that....i don't get that one at all.....

so, fruit in the summer....in the morning, because of the sugar
veggies and proteins for the rest of the day

and you're golden.

and take a walk to get the circulation moving....stop worrying about weight because you are what you are.....if you're sick like me, the chances of me ever getting back to buff are slim to none, but if i keep worrying about it, i will produce a little hormone called cortisol and that is starting a war against myself....but, i will be a healthy fat person....if i ever get healthy again....

for me, when i want to clean out my body, i juice....in the summer, it's fruit juicing and in the winter, it's veggie juicing....takes my blood levels and sets them straight....

those who engage in colonics for cleansing, do not understand the health risks they are taking....it's an excretory system and is not meant for fluids to enter...messes up the peristalsis and motility...

i realise that not everyone can study nutrition for years and years...and not everyone can study anatomy and physiology to learn the hows and whys of the human body....

the biggest lesson for everyone is your dog....they don't eat veggies or fruits because they are carnivores...

we don't feed them kibble because it is processed...so why are we eating foods that are processed?


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## JayJayisme (Aug 2, 2009)

SonyaBullyDog said:


> You guys got me interested, does anyone know of a good website on human nutrition? I basically live off of sandwiches, cereal, and coffee... Sonya is the only one who eats healthy in the family hwell:


The human diet equivalent of prey model raw for dogs, in other words our ancestral diet, is called the Paleolithic diet (aka "caveman diet" or "hunter-gatherer diet"). There are different versions of it based on differing theories but it's based mostly on the research of Dr. Loren Cordain. 

For example, there is a totally raw version of the diet, which few people follow. Most people on this diet follow the principles of what you would have eaten as a paleolithic human (except using modern versions of the same foods) but we cook many of the foods. This is the most common version of the diet. 

I will tell you right now that it flies in the face of every bit of "conventional wisdom" on human nutrition. It's not unlike the flack we get from people and veterinarians for feeding our dogs raw meat. If you can't handle controversy, or having a frank and difficult discussion with your physician, you will not do well sticking to this diet. Sound familiar raw feeders? :wink:

There is a similar diet that is much more liberal about what you can eat (allows dairy and limited grains) called the "Primal diet", but seems to be followed more by athletes rather than paleo, which attracts a lot of people with health issues because it can reverse many chronic illnesses (such as type II diabetes). 

It's interesting that a lot of the things we notice in our dogs after they have been on raw for awhile, you will notice in yourself after eating paleo for awhile. I'm convinced that carbohydrates really are evil, in humans and dogs, especially carbs from certain sources like grains. They feed illness, cancer, create metabolic problems, ruin your skin, hair, eyes, etc. and the list goes on. It may take longer for some people to suffer the effects of a high grain/high sugar diet, and many people never make the connection between their problems later in life to their lifelong diet, but I'm convinced that there is a definite connection in a significant portion of the population. For some people who are highly sensitive or who have health issues, like myself, the health improvements when dropping sugar, grains, and diary, are immediate and dramatic.

And here's the best part. The first 10 weeks on this diet, eating as much as I want, which mostly consists of fatty meat (the fat is very important), certain vegetables, and limited amounts of fruit, without weighing foods or counting calories, and eating until I'm full, and as often as I like, I lost nearly 30 lbs. and my blood pressure dropped from "life threatening" to "perfectly normal" without any added medications. 

So yeah, I eat Paleo, and my dogs eat PMR. I guess that makes me the "caveman", and them the "cavedogs". :biggrin:


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

jay is right on.....

and yes, most people might lose weight...but it's more a way of life than it is a diet...

and for those who have already lost organs that help with metabolism, then weight loss might not occur....it didn't for me...but i believe, that if i ate carbs....i'd be worse or dead now.

for me, it's a health thing....i would like to stay alive, so other than a few treats every once in a while, there are no processed foods in this house...

we have meat, fowl, fish, fruit and veggies...that's it.

when i grew to understand my dog's anatomy....i already understood mine in relation to food...but it became even more crystal clear....


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## SonyaBullyDog (Jun 6, 2011)

Really interesting.. So how do you cook your meat or does that not really matter? So if I'm understanding correctly, we should be eating things that a "caveman" would be eating: fruit, vegetables, mushrooms, berries, meat, fish, eggs, roots? Would you want everything to be mostly raw? Didn't people eat grains back then as well? I'm just thinking that they must have been eating some corn, wheat, etc. Obviously they wouldn't look like the plants we grow today, but I guess the veggies didn't look like the farmed veggies of today either... 

Out of curiosity, for those of you that eat the primal or the paleo diet, can you list what you eat for breakfast, lunch, and dinner? Also, do you use spices, sugar, salt, etc? Thanks, this is all so interesting!


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## JayJayisme (Aug 2, 2009)

SonyaBullyDog said:


> Really interesting.. So how do you cook your meat or does that not really matter?


I'll be brief since this is a dog food forum and now we are straying into human nutrition. I've tried to maintain the dog-human connection as long as I can but this is where it will stray. I suggest you read the archives at http://cavemanforum.com and post specific questions there but for now, here is a brief reply to your questions.

Cook your meat however you like, but the more its cooked, the less nutritious it is. I eat beef very, very rare (basically seared), pork medium, chicken medium well, and fish depends on the species, sometimes raw, sometimes rare, sometimes well. I generally cook game meats well. Unlike our fluffy four-legged friends, humans don't have the low stomach pH/high acid to handle contaminated meat and parasites.



SonyaBullyDog said:


> So if I'm understanding correctly, we should be eating things that a "caveman" would be eating: fruit, vegetables, mushrooms, berries, meat, fish, eggs, roots?


Yes, no sugar, no processed foods, no dairy, no grains, no legumes (beans and peas, including all forms of soy), no nightshades (tomatoes, peppers, white potatoes, etc.).



SonyaBullyDog said:


> Would you want everything to be mostly raw?


You can. The premise is that you SHOULD be able to safely eat the item raw. If you can't, it's not Paleo. But you can still cook it if you want and in some cases, cooking can actually make the nutrients in some foods more bio-available (such as broccoli).



SonyaBullyDog said:


> Didn't people eat grains back then as well? I'm just thinking that they must have been eating some corn, wheat, etc. Obviously they wouldn't look like the plants we grow today, but I guess the veggies didn't look like the farmed veggies of today either...


No. Grains were very rare in Paleolithic times, and concentrated in very small geographic areas. Our consumption of grain today is a product of agriculture, which was what defined the end of the Paleolithic era, and the beginning of the Neolithic era. Grains are Neolithic food. Whatever small amounts of grains ans seeds that were available in Paloe times, were very small, difficult to harvest, and required processing that didn't exist at the time (same with vegetable oils). The grains we eat today were bred for agricultural purposes, and require processing to make them edible, and even then, that is a matter of debate.



SonyaBullyDog said:


> Out of curiosity, for those of you that eat the primal or the paleo diet, can you list what you eat for breakfast, lunch, and dinner? Also, do you use spices, sugar, salt, etc? Thanks, this is all so interesting!


See the food journal section at the above referenced forum. You can use some herbs and spices, non-nightshade based ones. Salt is a no-no but many people use it in moderation for flavor. Sugar is absolutely out.


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## SonyaBullyDog (Jun 6, 2011)

Thanks! Yeah I just looked around another website, and either I'm very easily convinced or this makes a ton of sense, because I'm already ready to try it out!  All the photos of the plates that people make and eat on the diet look really delicious and something that I would very easily eat. I never really liked the grains too much anyway, and who can say no to more meat! 

Sorry to hijack the thread, I won't ask anymore questions on this.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

SonyaBullyDog said:


> Thanks! Yeah I just looked around another website, and either I'm very easily convinced or this makes a ton of sense, because I'm already ready to try it out!  All the photos of the plates that people make and eat on the diet look really delicious and something that I would very easily eat. I never really liked the grains too much anyway, and who can say no to more meat!
> 
> Sorry to hijack the thread, I won't ask anymore questions on this.


no one has stopped you yet...the more we understand nutrition, the better we can apply it to our dogs and ourselves and never listen to marketing again.

the great dairy farmers have had a strangle hold on several generations in spite of johns hopkins, penn state and several european university studies that have proven beyong a shadow of a doubt that dairy is responsible for allergies in children and asthma, given it creates mucous which no one needs....once a baby is weaned, they should be weaned, just like every other mammal out there....

meat, the great evil protein.....not only is it not evil, it is necessary for many metabolic functions in the body, plus what is in meat helps to maintain bone marrow, healing properties, creation of red blood cells, healthy ones....brain function....protein affects every cell in your body....eating things well done just takes the essential nutrition out of the protein and you're eating kibble...
we serve our dogs raw...and, whilst i don't eat raw, other than sashimi or carpaccio or tartare....i eat my meats pretty rare....it's where the nutrition is..

cereals and grains....we are not cows. we are humans. grains are killing us. modified grains. modified soy is everwhere in everything. it's killing our pancreas...causing thyroid disease from overwork...livers are now suffering from fatty infiltrates to a degree never seen before.......there are more diabetics now than ever, more hypo thyroid people than ever.....increases in certain cancers are on the rise...and it's directly attributed to grains...the isles of langenhorn were never meant to work this hard.

when we eat processed foods and yucky carbs not in their natural state, the body utilises what it can but then stores it for later....it never gets to the fat we eat which stays as fat...it just turns the carbs into fat and that fat is what is killing us.

eating fat, the other evil essential, is not going to kill us.....eating fat and protein and limited carbs of a certain nature, again....the essential carbs break down quickly...and allow us to keyboard to our heart's content and sweep the floor and work and do laundry and walk our 1/2 hour a day....eating fat protects protein from being catabolised.....we never want to cause protein to start breaking down, for that means we break down.

jay is giving you the benefits of how we should eat....and i am giving you the pathology and the physiology of what our bodies need that we keep ignoring....and whilst it might not affect people in their twenties and thirties, it will at some point get you....

heart disease is on the rise....it's not all coming from stress...it's the foods we eat...

food is the gasoline for our bodies....it's what makes us run...fortunately, or unfortunately, we have brains which try to adapt, so we can survive at any cost...just like dogs on kibble who survive but do not thrive.


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## sozzle (May 18, 2011)

SonyaBullyDog said:


> You guys got me interested, does anyone know of a good website on human nutrition? I basically live off of sandwiches, cereal, and coffee... Sonya is the only one who eats healthy in the family hwell:


Lots of great information here. I started to follow The Primal Blueprint by Mark Sisson over a year ago and gave up grains and sugar and have lost a significant amount of weight and am no longer bloated and don't fall asleep in the afternoons. There is alot of free information out there re Paleo/Primal. You can get most of the info free 'Primal Blueprint 101' for all the basics. It has been great for me anyhow. I eat quite a bit of fat in the way of animal, butter, coconut and am still losing weight and have more energy. Very interesting topic.


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## Pimzilla (May 1, 2011)

Be careful with raw eggwhite though, it's much better to eat cooked. And I believe humans aren't great at metabolising meat since we lack some enzymes for it, but it's definitely not bad for you as some people might say but eat it together with your veggies. Few other nutrients that have much higher bioavailability when they are cooked as lycopene in tomatoes, betacarotene in carrots (I think if I'm not mistaken now, too tired atm) and some other veggies. But no need to over cook them to a mushy mash. 

Processed foods are all evil human kibble. I think the paleo diet is a very natural diet for us, but sometimes they miss out on some benefits by lightly cooking certain types of food. 
Fat is only really bad in combination with too much carbs.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

i have to differ with you on meat....we have more than enough enzymes to digest meat...we are carnivores, after all.

if you're talking about the raw meat eaters, tho, i agree....our digestive systems have adapted to cooking... but we tend to overcook now..and that's just as bad.

we also have an incredible immune system....that fights off sickness and it's the watch dog for our bodies...but it's like feeding kibble or rancid meat to our dogs....the immune system has to move some troops to the digestive system to make sure the bacteria doesn't take hold and hurt the organism..

and in humans, the immune system has to move some of the troops for every piece of crap we eat..

easiest way to start eating right..

read labels

.if you can't pronounce it, don't eat it.......if it looks like the name of the food, such as orange, eat it. 

if it is in a box, leave it.


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## RachelsaurusRexU (Sep 4, 2010)

Is it possible to healithy follow this general type of diet as a pescatarian? I don't eat meat and I don't intend to, but I looooves me some seafood. Ate a dozen big, fat, sweet cherrystones last night. Mmmm mmm mmm!


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## DoglovingSenior (Jun 26, 2011)

I had to think a minute and remember WHY my dogs have NEVER eaten raw salmon. YEARS ago I remember reading /hearing on a dog nutrition list that raw salmon carries a parasite that is harmful to dogs. This was at the beginning of my Raw feeding & I just never did-even back when I could afford it. <lol>


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## RaisingWolves (Mar 19, 2011)

sozzle said:


> Lots of great information here. I started to follow The Primal Blueprint by Mark Sisson over a year ago and gave up grains and sugar and have lost a significant amount of weight and am no longer bloated and don't fall asleep in the afternoons. There is alot of free information out there re Paleo/Primal. You can get most of the info free 'Primal Blueprint 101' for all the basics. It has been great for me anyhow. I eat quite a bit of fat in the way of animal, butter, coconut and am still losing weight and have more energy. Very interesting topic.


I feel fantastic eating this way! 
I like Mark's Daily Apple blog & forum.


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## DoglovingSenior (Jun 26, 2011)

It was because of the supplements and the diet that I fed my dogs that FINALLY got me on the right track. )


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## phoDOGrapher (May 30, 2011)

that and we fed them our scraps initially, and they survived on it. and carbs are cheaper than meat... so it makes sense that we would just assume they could eat the same stuff as us, and even after further research was done a) we were set in our ways, and b) Dog food companies had already started making cheap kibble and selling us on it!


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## JayJayisme (Aug 2, 2009)

Just remember folks, any business, or even business category, or sadly, political party, that stands to gain from us feeding ourselves and/or our pets crap, should be looked at with the jaundiced eye (i.e; with extreme prejudice). But you raw feeders already knew that, right?


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## PUNKem733 (Jun 12, 2009)

JayJayisme said:


> I'll be brief since this is a dog food forum and now we are straying into human nutrition. I've tried to maintain the dog-human connection as long as I can but this is where it will stray. I suggest you read the archives at http://cavemanforum.com and post specific questions there but for now, here is a brief reply to your questions.
> 
> Cook your meat however you like, but the more its cooked, the less nutritious it is. I eat beef very, very rare (basically seared), pork medium, chicken medium well, and fish depends on the species, sometimes raw, sometimes rare, sometimes well. I generally cook game meats well. Unlike our fluffy four-legged friends, humans don't have the low stomach pH/high acid to handle contaminated meat and parasites.
> 
> ...


No beans? But those are healthy foods?! Not canned either, but raw beans you have to biol in water to cook. Also I have the most recent issue of the AARP mag that has brand new studies touting the health benefits of tomatoes. It guards against several types of cancer because of it's lycopene content, and can guard against heart disease, osteoporosis, and even diabetes. Some of these cancers are prostate, breast, and lung. They can help prevent heart attacks by lowering cholesterol. It also contains 9-oxo-octadecadienoic which lowers LDL cholesterol and fat in the bloodstream. 

I think some of our nutritional thinking is older info/research. We have to constantly be up to date in that area.


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## JayJayisme (Aug 2, 2009)

PUNKem733 said:


> No beans? But those are healthy foods?! Not canned either, but raw beans you have to biol in water to cook. Also I have the most recent issue of the AARP mag that has brand new studies touting the health benefits of tomatoes. It guards against several types of cancer because of it's lycopene content, and can guard against heart disease, osteoporosis, and even diabetes. Some of these cancers are prostate, breast, and lung. They can help prevent heart attacks by lowering cholesterol. It also contains 9-oxo-octadecadienoic which lowers LDL cholesterol and fat in the bloodstream.
> 
> I think some of our nutritional thinking is older info/research. We have to constantly be up to date in that area.


You can believe what you want, but legumes do not fit the premise of the Paleolithic diet. The fact that they have to be cooked to be edible is all you need to know, but they also contain significant levels of anti-nutrients and lectin, and are known to produce an inflammatory response in many people. They are also high in carbohydrates and will provoke a strong insulin response. 

Tomatoes, being a nightshade, also provoke an inflammatory response in many people and they contain significant anti-nutrients. If you are worried about cholesterol, eating tomatoes is the worst way to manage that problem. Eliminating carbohydrates and vegetable oils, and eating lots of meat and saturated animal fast, is the best way to manage cholesterol. Not only that, but if you think having fat in your bloodstream is necessarily a bad thing, you need to get up to date on modern lipid research. Serum lipids actually have a purpose in our bodies and aren't the enemy that junk science has made them out to be. Certain types of lipids are bad, but most of them are not. The key is to limit the bad types, and increase the good ones. Anything that lowers all serum lipids is toxic as far as I'm concerned.

You don't seem to understand the premise of this way of eating, which is that you only eat what someone from the Paleolithic era would have had access to and eaten because that is all we have evolved to process efficiently. Just because there are some foods available now that MAY be good for you, if they didn't exist then, or even if they did and humans had little access to them, they are not Paleo foods. If you want to "eat Paleo" and make a bunch of exceptions because you heard this non-Paleo food is good, or the AARP says that non-Paleo food is healthy, you can do whatever you want, but it isn't Paleo.

The goal with this way of eating is to distill one's diet down to the basic foods that our bodies have evolved to eat and metabolize efficiently. The Paleo era ended about 10,000 years ago when agriculture was introduced and humans transitioned from being hunter-gatherers to farmers. But 10,000 years is a blip on the evolutionary map, and not even close to enough time for our systems to have evolved to process the "modern" (Neolithic) foods that are a product of agriculture and prolific in our modern diets. For people with health issues, eliminating these Neolithic foods that place a heavy load on the metabolic system, allows the body to function more efficiently, using less energy, and with less effort. For some of us, it's not worth the potential for problems by introducing foods that don't meet the definition of Paleo. But if these foods don't cause problems for you, knock yourself out and enjoy them. Just don't call your diet Paleo.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

to go one step further....beans are starches. starches clog up the intestinal tract, leading to painful gas and a slowing of peristalsis and motility....ask any gastroenterologist and he or she will tell you that starches are their bank accounts' best friends because beans to us is grains to dogs and us....diverticulosis means the waste is getting stuck in pockets of the intestine and then diverticulitis, which is the inflammation of those pockets....

beans, legumes, potatoes which is a starvation food meant for famines, not part of any eating plan....

one doesn't have to get hung up on the word paleolithic, neolithic....it's just that dogs are meant to eat a certain way, as are humans....

and starches are not on the list....or any processed food.....not for dogs, not for us.


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## PUNKem733 (Jun 12, 2009)

I never said AARP is the one recommending tomatoes. These are brand new studies from Kyoto University in Japan.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

PUNKem733 said:


> I never said AARP is the one recommending tomatoes. These are brand new studies from Kyoto University in Japan.


nightshade elements are particularly harmful to a group of people who have migraines or gout and a list of other conditions....that tomatoes are part of this grouping is enough to keep me from eating them, since i have one of the conditions..

having said that....research any institution or university, but make sure you go back fifteen to twenty years, because what was good for you became bad and then became good for you again.

i would no sooner take the word of a university study any more than i would take the word of a dairy farmer association or cereal manufacturers or kibble manufacturers....

i find it interesting that what needs to be sold and can be grown in a hothouse or modified genetically or cloned is what seems to produce the most recent badass studies....there is a correllation....between marketing dollars and study dollars..follow the money and i think we'd all be surprised at who is pulling the strings.


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## Bindi (Nov 17, 2010)

My two cents: I am a complete believer in this whole "Paleo Diet". I recently got diagnosed with Celiac Disease, an autoimmune disorder... meaning, if I eat any food that contains gluten (ie. wheat, rye, spelt, couscous, etc... and even things like soy sauce and practically any processed food in existence!), my body will literally attack itself, specifically my small intestine, resulting in an inability to absorb nutrients from the food I eat. After an exhausting amount of research, I've discovered that humans (or any creature that lacks 4 stomachs to properly process grains) really don't benefit at all from things like wheat. And contrary to popular belief, our caveman ancestors did not eat wheat or bread. That became popular with the rise of the industrial/agricultural period which provided the technology & machinery necessary to process wheat... See? There's that bad word again: Process(ed)!!! It has been difficult, but I view it as a Godsend because I have been learning a whole new way of eating, thus healing myself... and that is what has also brought me here to begin the journey of feeding my little constant companion what nature intended her to eat as well. And let me tell you, it's an amazing feeling to be going through the same enlightening, healing process together.


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## Paws&Tails (Sep 3, 2010)

Wow, I didn't realize so many of you ate Paleo diets!! I stumbled across Mark's Daily Apple a month or so ago and have been reading an insane amount of info on Primal and Paleo diets since. I'm planning on switching over to Paleo from a vegetarian semi-raw food diet. I'm going to juice fast in about a week first and then start cold turkey, but the meat will have to be sparing at first. Last time I started to try to eat meat again I did too much too fast, and ended up horribly sick and vomiting a lot. I'll do a bite here and a bite there, starting with chicken. My mom has already started eating Paleo and the weight just started melting off, she said she's felt amazing, with so much energy and clarity of mind, no fatigue whatsoever. She's almost down to where she should be. It's not been too hard for her...she already ate a very low carb diet with virtually no sugar, and limited dairy because whenever she consumed any kind of bread, pasta, beans, dairy etc. she would gain weight. I know she intends on having my whole family eating this way. My brothers shouldn't have a problem with it. They love meat and fruit.



Bindi said:


> My two cents: I am a complete believer in this whole "Paleo Diet". I recently got diagnosed with Celiac Disease, an autoimmune disorder... meaning, if I eat any food that contains gluten (ie. wheat, rye, spelt, couscous, etc... and even things like soy sauce and practically any processed food in existence!), my body will literally attack itself, specifically my small intestine, resulting in an inability to absorb nutrients from the food I eat. After an exhausting amount of research, I've discovered that humans (*or any creature that lacks 4 stomachs to properly process grains)* really don't benefit at all from things like wheat. And contrary to popular belief, our caveman ancestors did not eat wheat or bread. That became popular with the rise of the industrial/agricultural period which provided the technology & machinery necessary to process wheat... See? There's that bad word again: Process(ed)!!! It has been difficult, but I view it as a Godsend because I have been learning a whole new way of eating, thus healing myself... and that is what has also brought me here to begin the journey of feeding my little constant companion what nature intended her to eat as well. And let me tell you, it's an amazing feeling to be going through the same enlightening, healing process together.


This is where I have to differ with some of y'all. Cows shouldn't be eating that crap either. They are meant to eat grass and forages. Not grains and corn.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

wow...look what has been started in this thread....awesome..


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

Re, do you mind if I message you with a bunch of questions that I have? I REALLY want to start eating this way, Ive now spent like 5 hours researching it since reading this thread...but will probably have questions!:biggrin:


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## SonyaBullyDog (Jun 6, 2011)

This is an amazing thread, it made me realize how horribly I eat and I'm actually pretty nervous that my diet will effect me later on if I don't change asap. If I don't go paleo, I will at least be conscious of what I put in my mouth and how it will effect my body. Thanks guys!


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

sure, you can....always...

but i don't label diets...i just eat what makes sense...lo and behold, it seems there is a new name for what i eat and don't eat...

i myself have been researching what i now know is the paleo diet....but with a few exceptions, that's pretty much how i eat...although honey has to have him some starch to get through the day....

if i look at grains, i gain more weight than i already have from whatever is wrong with me and all of my missing metabolic organs.... at least this way, i stay constant...which is how i got started in the research....


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## RachelsaurusRexU (Sep 4, 2010)

Could we maybe start a thread specifically to ask questions, post recipes, etc? After looking at that Primal Blueprint 101 page, I've got some questions to ask.


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## D'Lynn (Jun 20, 2011)

The research I've done on feeding my critters has definitely led to research on species appropriate human diet. My critters are small enough that feeding them whatever falls off the cutting board is reasonable. I've been looking into recipes for those things that Americans at least are culturally conditioned not to eat in the last few decades. Offal is good for the carnivores and also for me.


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## JayJayisme (Aug 2, 2009)

Seriously, ya'll who have more questions should join the caveman forum. It is to human nutrition discussion what this forum is to pet nutrition. Very helpful and knowledgeable people there who have been eating Paleo a long time and, like here, a good group of people participating in a forum with very little "noise" and plenty of substance. I've referred a number of pet owners interested in raw from there to this site, so it's only fair that I send some people interested in Paleo back to that site. :biggrin:

http://cavemanforum.com/


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

this is what my advice would be....to take a look at paleo forums....just as jay is suggesting and the one he is suggesting is as good as it gets....

Mark's Daily Apple - marks daily apple is also an interesting read...

mostly what i have learned is this.

whenever a way of eating is labeled...people tend to call it a fad. call it human nature. i don't know....but if common sense eating is the goal...then it doesn't take a leap of faith to realise that we didn't stop foraging and hunting until approximately 10000 years ago....

reading about that makes total sense....physiologically and evolutionarily....we discuss this about dogs, so why not humans...

the one thing that truly doesn't make sense is the eating of stuff that comes in a box. stuff that is made from grains. grains themselves.....and if anyone cares to look back, and not so far back.....it is astounding and astonishing and scary how asthma, colon cancer, allergies, other cancers have risen since the advent of grain eating....and sugars, which used to be used as currency, as well as salt....and so was used sparingly...unless you were amongst the royalty, in which case, you died early. 

sure, you can eat rice....but be prepared to work in paddies for 16 hours a day....the okinawa diet....everyone jumped on that one and the people on okinawa get up at oh dark thirty...work in the fields.....all day long...they are in bed by sundown and there is little stress in their lives...can't eat that diet, since we don't live that lifestyle...

we have to learn our bodies and adapt eating to what our bodies need not what proctor and gamble tell us to eat....

we also have to move, even if it's a 20 minute walk...no move, no health. forget about weight loss....no health because the body is not circulating blood....

back in the day, when i was lifting....the dreaded cardio....i had to get my heart beat up to 170 beats a minute according to my trainer....and it didn't make sense...it was like revving an engine beyond what was necessary...

and, holy mary, guess what...now the heart beat should go up, but it should go up a little more than usual....to get benefit from a treadmill or a bike....and keep doing it four to five times a week and voila....heart healthy...might not lose weight but it sure does get blood to your organs...

what was old is new again...the paleo diet is no different than the induction for atkins and his followers were in the millions...the trouble was they could not maintain ketosis....

it's not easy to never eat bread or ice cream or cream cheese and jelly on a bagel....these are the treats that keep us fat...cereal and beans and starches....sugar, fake sugar....boxed foods, wheat, corn, soy, oats...you name the grain, and there is an illness to go along with it.

believe me, i'm not knocking paleolithic eating....what i'm knocking is human eating habits...we don't work like farmers....we get in our cars and go to work...

or some of us don't have a thyroid or a gall bladder or other organs with which to process foods properly.....so eating has to be modified to accomodate the times we live in and what we do or don't do.

the easiest way is to eat seasonally, keep sugar at bay....eat lots of protein and with that comes eating fat, keep the high glycemic foods off your menu....and take a walk.....sometimes the goal is not to be svelte...sometimes the goal is to maintain and thrive...


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

RachelsaurusRexU said:


> Could we maybe start a thread specifically to ask questions, post recipes, etc? After looking at that Primal Blueprint 101 page, I've got some questions to ask.


http://dogfoodchat.com/forum/genera...t-humans-what-we-supposed-eat.html#post101374

there ya go


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## PDXdogmom (Jun 30, 2010)

I think my 30 year old son's lifestyle and eating habits might be of interest in this thread; because they don't fit neatly into any of the specific named eating plans mentioned. However, his weight, his cholesterol, his blood-pressure, his energy level, his muscle tone, etc. are to be envied. I frequently hear comments about how fit and how great he looks. By his own admission, he can't imagine feeling better than he does.

He has been vegetarian for 12 years and also vegan (no dairy of course) for the last 4 years.
He eschews processed foods and organically grows much of his own produce (here in Portland).
He uses heirloom seeds (no GMO)
He eats a lot of fresh foods and does his own cooking - often Indian or Middle Eastern
He makes "live" green smoothies for breakfast in his Vita-mix blender (a must-have for breaking down the greens and making them bio-available)
He uses unrefined coconut oil and olive oil.
The one grain he cooks with is quinoa.
He carefully prepares and eats a lot of lentils and various types of beans.
He consumes extremely little sugar (can't resist the vegan quinoa cookies I bake on occasion or the vegan chocolate birthday cake)
He is very physically active.
Although he is on a limited budget, he feeds his dog Orijen (realizing the need for good meat protein)

And I love the fact that he doesn't go out evangelizing about his regimen; but if someone expresses some interest in it, it will be a most fascinating conversation.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

pdxmom...i'll respond here even though i answered in the thread i started.

i see what your son eats...and he eats food that is still in its natural state. i believe that's what is needed for humans to stop being sick.

even with his mother making him a vegan chocolate birthday cake


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## PUNKem733 (Jun 12, 2009)

PDXdogmom said:


> I think my 30 year old son's lifestyle and eating habits might be of interest in this thread; because they don't fit neatly into any of the specific named eating plans mentioned. However, his weight, his cholesterol, his blood-pressure, his energy level, his muscle tone, etc. are to be envied. I frequently hear comments about how fit and how great he looks. By his own admission, he can't imagine feeling better than he does.
> 
> He has been vegetarian for 12 years and also vegan (no dairy of course) for the last 4 years.
> He eschews processed foods and organically grows much of his own produce (here in Portland).
> ...


That is pretty cool, I guess it's time to look into that paleo diet. One thing I have going in my favor is the middle eastern diet, as I am Jordanian. I already have cut out most processed foods, I never drink anything but water, and homemade smoothies.


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