# Don't worry...Natura to benefit from P&G's knowledge



## kevin bradley (Aug 9, 2009)

hahahahahaha....not sure whether we should laugh or cry. I found this letter online that Natura sent to someone who wrote them concerned about the recent events. Seriously guys, why are we wasting our time here? Any company that tells us that they will gain from P&G's "knowledge" of Dog Food? 
Yeah, don't worry about a thing. All will be fine....




Thank you for taking the time to write. I appreciate your concern and will certainly forward your comments to our management team.

Natura has been extremely successful with their unique formulas, providing high quality nutrition to dogs and cats. Quality is and always has been paramount for Natura. We will continue to provide the current formulas to our customers.

Superior quality and value are two reasons P&G has grown to be such a large company. The P&G resources now available could actually boost product quality because we are able to utilize some of their learnings and nutritional expertise. (My comment: seriously? learn from P&G? P&G resources boost quality? Not bloody likely!)




P&G is committed to growing the Natural brands and understand the critical nature of growing the portfolio through the independent pet specialty channel

If we can be of further help, we would welcome your call Monday through Friday from 9:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m. Eastern Time at 800-9834237.

Sincerely,
Sandy
P&G Pet Care Team Member


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## ziggy29 (Feb 1, 2010)

P&G marketing drone said:


> Natura has been extremely successful with their unique formulas, providing high quality nutrition to dogs and cats. Quality is and always has been paramount for Natura. We will continue to provide the current formulas to our customers.
> 
> Superior quality and value are two reasons P&G has grown to be such a large company. The P&G resources now available could actually boost product quality because we are able to utilize some of their learnings and nutritional expertise.


That last sentence would be funny if it weren't so sad.

And once again, they contradict themselves as they did before with the comments about an "independent" operation benefiting from "synergy." In this case -- if they continue to provide the current formula, why do they need P&G's (ha ha) "nutritional expertise"??

They keep speaking out of both sides of their mouth. You can't have it both ways. Either P&G will "influence" the Natura products or they won't.


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## Unosmom (May 3, 2009)

> Superior quality and value are two reasons P&G has grown to be such a large company.


What??


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## wags (Jan 31, 2009)

I even heard something to this liking from the one of the mom and pop stores I visit. Must be a rehearsed speech given from P&G! I wrote it in another post UGH! They are brainwashing people!:frown: The store I went to said that Natura benefited from being with P&G for the marketing! I am like what they are going to change the formula! Oh well! Its all now for them about the marketing! Oh well now other companies will benefit our hard earned dollars! That is that!


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## kevin bradley (Aug 9, 2009)

Wags/anyone else,

You want to know the path this could end up going down? 

Well, guess who is tied hand in hand with P&G...? A certain retailer from Arkansas. How close?...P&G(along w/ many others) actually have OFFICES in Bentonville. And I think from a sku perspective, P & G might actually be their number ONE vendor. 

If one Marketing/Sales VP wants to go down this path....wanting to get distribution at WM, it will be all over. They will pound you and pound you to lower your price...so hard that you have no option but to compromise the product.

This retailer is so tied to the bottom line that they care little about anything but. There is ZERO chance they will let $60/bag enter their store. Oh, they will let it enter their store I should say...they just won't let it cost $60. 

All of this makes me sick.


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## wags (Jan 31, 2009)

I had done a survey for Natura a while back and I received a free token for a 6 lb bag of their dog food for free. I got the herring salmon for free it costs 19.97 at the store I went and that is that I am done now with Natura products. Moving on to others there are many choices out there who will hopefully not go with a big marketing company! Yep moneys the bottom line here! I just don't trust P&G with my dog food, my toliet paper Ok my dog food NO!:tongue:


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## kevin bradley (Aug 9, 2009)

another double edge sword for us....

My instinct tells me to encourage everyone to go buy Orijen and Acana and support them so they succeed. 

I'm not certain thats the answer though...because if they start getting on everyone's radar, it will draw the corporate snakes who may want to drop down offers to buy them. 

ahhh heck, I'm through being sad about this whole thing. Life will just have to move on I guess.


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5 (Feb 11, 2010)

kevin bradley said:


> another double edge sword for us....
> 
> My instinct tells me to encourage everyone to go buy Orijen and Acana and support them so they succeed.
> 
> ...


i say encourage people to use a decent food like TOTW. this way we know that orijen will remain small,and people will still be feeding a decent quality of food. plus when you have good companies like natura..you cant always tell if there's an ingredient change just by looking at ingredients. proctor and gamble could leave the ingredients the same but reduce the quality of he ingridients.
if TOTW gets big, there ingredients are already prolly as low quality as allowed,so the only way to tell if ingredients are changed is based on ingredients list changing! and maybe inspection of facility to see if quality control diminishes.

i know you cant fathom encouraging a product from diamond..or a product other than orijen/acana..however if you keep pushing orijen down peoples throats like yo ualready do..your pets will suffer once menu buys orijen


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## kevin bradley (Aug 9, 2009)

RC,

Every time I think I've thought of all the angles of thought, you give me a completely different way of thinking of things :wink:


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## wags (Jan 31, 2009)

RCTRIPLEFRESH5;32089your pets will suffer once menu buys orijen[/QUOTE said:


> Thats not happening!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Doc (Jan 17, 2009)

If it made from crap (which will happen) and sold by crap (the greedy money mongers from the big Corp.); then it's CRAP.

Go raw and grow your own.


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5 (Feb 11, 2010)

wags said:


> Thats not happening!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


:wink:


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## kevin bradley (Aug 9, 2009)

Doc said:


> If it made from crap (which will happen) and sold by crap (the greedy money mongers from the big Corp.); then it's CRAP.
> 
> Go raw and grow your own.


Doc,

If I lose Orijen/Acana, I will be going raw. 

I live in an 800 sq foot tiny house with a kitchen smaller than what most apartments have...keeping and prepping a bunch of raw meet 2x per day is just out of it for me right now. 

could I do it? Yeah, I probably could. 

If Champion sells out, that will most likely break my back once and for all.


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## wags (Jan 31, 2009)

Doc said:


> If it made from crap (which will happen) and sold by crap (the greedy money mongers from the big Corp.); then it's CRAP.
> 
> Go raw and grow your own.


Its a nice thing to think about but not feasable for everyone. I live in a subdivision and have a very limited space for gardening, my back yard is a ncie size for the odghs with a pool and a swing and a firepit in the back so I did it the way I wanted and am happy with! also My extra freezer I keep in the basement is packed I cant get another freezer for dog food! There are 6 of us right now here with my one son who now has his own place but comes home every so often so it gets busy here! I have considered raw but for me at this time its not happening! So going raw and growing my own doesn't really fit in the equasion at this time! You have to consider where people live ~some in cities ~some in smaller areas! I wish it was Green Acres~ But its not where I am! So for everyone going raw is not always the simple solution!
The thread is about P&G buying natura out. Nothing about raw feeding!


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## ziggy29 (Feb 1, 2010)

wags said:


> The thread is about P&G buying natura out. Nothing about raw feeding!


True, but part of the recurring theme in these Natura threads is discussion about quality alternatives to feeding Natura products. Raw is certainly one of those alternatives, but so too is other top-quality grain-free commercial foods such as those produced by Champion. 

And as I mentioned the other day, anyone who strongly argues between "raw vs. the very best grain-free kibble" is really sweating the small stuff; no matter which of those two options you choose your dog's going to be eating better than 98-99% of the all the dogs on the planet.

So there's room for us all to pat ourselves (and each other) on the back. :smile:


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> proctor and gamble could leave the ingredients the same but reduce the quality of he ingridients.


I don't understand how you can do that when the ingredients are already at the bottom of the barrel. Dog food ingredients (from ANY dog food company) are the refuse from human food plants. Chicken meal is chicken meal is chicken meal. Beet pulp is beet pulp is beet pulp. They are all the same. They all come from the same places. They are all garbage already. Even if you use chicken instead of chicken meal. Chicken is chicken is chicken. Potatoes are potatoes are potatoes. If its in dog food it is already throw away stuff. Its stuff that can't be used by human food processing plants.


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## ziggy29 (Feb 1, 2010)

RawFedDogs said:


> I don't understand how you can do that when the ingredients are already at the bottom of the barrel. Dog food ingredients (from ANY dog food company) are the refuse from human food plants. Chicken meal is chicken meal is chicken meal. Beet pulp is beet pulp is beet pulp. They are all the same. They all come from the same places. They are all garbage already. Even if you use chicken instead of chicken meal. Chicken is chicken is chicken. Potatoes are potatoes are potatoes. *If its in dog food it is already throw away stuff. Its stuff that can't be used by human food processing plants.*


Are you suggesting that Champion is lying when they say this?



> Yes. All ORIJEN fresh meats (chicken, fish, turkey, eggs) are of table quality. Chicken, fish and turkey meals are produced exclusively from animals that are certified as fit for human consumption by the Canadian Food Inspection Agency (CFIA).


Champion Petfoods | F.A.Q


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## kevin bradley (Aug 9, 2009)

ziggy29 said:


> Are you suggesting that Champion is lying when they say this?
> 
> 
> 
> Champion Petfoods | F.A.Q



I don't buy it. It doesn't add up. There are a HELLUVA lot of ingredients in Orijen/Acana that sure as hell ain't cheap or ideal to put in there from a manufacturing standpoint. Think its easy to put WALLEYE into a Dog food? It sure wouldn't be the easiest/cheapest food to put into Dog food.


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

ziggy29 said:


> Are you suggesting that Champion is lying when they say this?


For a dog food to claim "human grade" ingredients is a tricky thing. See, the ingredients only had to be deemed fit for human consumption at one point in time- not necessarily at the time of production. 

So, a batch of chicken can be deemed fit for human consumption, then shipped overseas, across the country, whatever. Have preservatives added, sit in the sun for a couple days, be contaminated with other ingredients, and then tossed in to process, and it the paper bag it ends up in can still claim fit for human consumption, because at one point in time it was. 

I read this in "Food Pets Die For" by Ann N. Martin. A great read, I highly recommend it to everyone. I will try to get you a page number and quote later if you need it.


ETA: That being said, I do think companies like Champion might actually care and put a little extra effort into quality ingredients. I also think natura has gone the extra mile. But under P&G nope, any and every shortcut will be made. And if Natura is so foolish as to be excited that they now get to "benefit" from P&G's knowledge on pet foods, then I see the downhill roll going even faster than I thought. 

Ironic. Natura has prided itself in not being full of corn, wheat, soy, and other junk. But now they want to "learn" from a company whose food is primarily that. Go figure. I guess those people prefer their wallets to be heavier than their conscience.


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## kevin bradley (Aug 9, 2009)

CorgiPaws said:


> For a dog food to claim "human grade" ingredients is a tricky thing. See, the ingredients only had to be deemed fit for human consumption at one point in time- not necessarily at the time of production.
> 
> So, a batch of chicken can be deemed fit for human consumption, then shipped overseas, across the country, whatever. Have preservatives added, sit in the sun for a couple days, be contaminated with other ingredients, and then tossed in to process, and it the paper bag it ends up in can still claim fit for human consumption, because at one point in time it was.
> 
> ...


It doesn't even make any sense, does it Linsey? 

Whats sad is that these companies are filled with young hotshots who actually believe the BS their masters shovel into their mouths every day. 

I live it every day...P & G is actually very well thought of in the corporate world...the "elite" if you will. The TOP GUN of the corporate world. 

Sad.


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## wags (Jan 31, 2009)

Doc said:


> If it made from crap (which will happen) and sold by crap (the greedy money mongers from the big Corp.); then it's CRAP.
> 
> Go raw and grow your own.





ziggy29 said:


> True, but part of the recurring theme in these Natura threads is discussion about quality alternatives to feeding Natura products. Raw is certainly one of those alternatives, but so too is other top-quality grain-free commercial foods such as those produced by Champion.
> 
> And as I mentioned the other day, anyone who strongly argues between "raw vs. the very best grain-free kibble" is really sweating the small stuff; no matter which of those two options you choose your dog's going to be eating better than 98-99% of the all the dogs on the planet.
> 
> So there's room for us all to pat ourselves (and each other) on the back. :smile:


Oh, Im not bickering about raw vs, kibble. I simply mentioned it was the P&G Natura kibble takeover talk~ when someone mention go raw or grow your own, pointing out not all of us can!
And I agree with you on the pnt of 98 to99% of the dogs are eating really good!


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## ziggy29 (Feb 1, 2010)

CorgiPaws said:


> ETA: That being said, I do think companies like Champion might actually care and put a little extra effort into quality ingredients. I also think natura has gone the extra mile. But under P&G nope, any and every shortcut will be made. And if Natura is so foolish as to be excited that they now get to "benefit" from P&G's knowledge on pet foods, then I see the downhill roll going even faster than I thought.
> 
> Ironic. Natura has prided itself in not being full of corn, wheat, soy, and other junk. But now they want to "learn" from a company whose food is primarily that. Go figure. I guess those people prefer their wallets to be heavier than their conscience.


Yeah, that's true. I read what Champion writes about Orijen in their FAQ and there's just not much weasel-wording in it allowing misleading claims or half-truths. Most of what they claim about the quality of their food is written in a way that it's either true or an outright, unabashed 100% bald-faced lie. (Contrast that to the marketing weasel-wording so commonly seen.) 

And given that, I've seen no reason not to take them at their word -- or (until now) Natura. But there's no way I trust what they'll say under P&G; any marketing group that positions Iams and Eukanuba as super-premium food has instantly lost credibility. Under P&G I won't even trust that the quality is the same even if the ingredient list doesn't change. Even if they changed *nothing* I can't trust a pet food maker under the P&G umbrella.

As I mentioned elsewhere, if Champion sold out that would probably be the final kick in the butt to make room in the garage freezer (or buy a second freezer) and go all-out PMR...


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## Doc (Jan 17, 2009)

Natural Balance is a good alternative to California Natural. I've feed both with good results. A little light in the meat department but ...


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## PUNKem733 (Jun 12, 2009)

Doc said:


> Natural Balance is a good alternative to California Natural. I've feed both with good results. A little light in the meat department but ...



That is why I wouldn't feed it to my dog. My dog is a carnivore, I don't want a dog food that is light on meat. Unless it's a limited ingredient food, and even then, meat shouldn't be skimped on.


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