# SO PROUD, Serenity's new HUMAN friend



## Tahlz

ok, Serenity has issues. She is a tad fearful at times, has major prey drive towards people and her herding instinct does not help. I never thought I'd ever be able to have her off leash, unmuzzled around a kid. Well.. Serenity has a new best friend, a 13yo! I am beyond proud, amazed and so glad to see that it is possible for Serenity to learn to love people. I worked at a school more then two years ago and in the past few months, I kept running in to two kids I knew from the school. They kept asking to come play/hang with me and the dogs when I take them out. I warned them about Serenity, they understood her issues and these past few weeks, the kids have been going for walks/to the school with me and the dogs. Serenity was muzzled/leashed at first, she did try to nip at their feet a few times which I corrected her for. She only recently was allowed to have the muzzle off, as long as i watched her carefully and the kids behaved. 

SO... Serenity is still a bit iffy with the boy and I can't blame her, she still wants to nip at his feet at times but Serenity really hit it off with Zoe. I was going for a small hike and I ran in to Zoe. She asked if she could come, her parents were cool with it so she came along. Serenity did AMAZING! Serenity was unmuzzled, off leash and behaved perfectly, she was a absolute saint. Now, I was still watching her because I thought she still may try and nip but nothing. Zoe did several things that would have gotten anyone else a nip but nope, nothing. Serenity didn't stare, didn't stalk, didn't cower away. Serenity ran with her, played with her, ran up to her for CUDDLES, CUDDLES! She does NOT do that to strangers. This is Serenity shoving her face in to some ones arms/face/leaning against them, she has only ever done this to me. 

I am blown away. I truly am. We are going for another hike tomorrow with Zoe so that'll be nice. I like Zoe as she really respects what I say in regards to Serenity and she has no fear when it comes to Serenity. I don't like the boy as much, he does fear Serenity a bit and doesn't like her as much so I try not to let him come around. I am hoping he can learn to trust her because thats the only way Serenity will trust him.


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## Tahlz




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## Savage Destiny

So, your hiking area was in a fenced, secure location where no other people could possibly get to, and that's why Serenity was off leash, right? Or are you STILL letting your HA dog loose in public?


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## AveryandAudrey

Thats wonderful! Its amazing how dogs just click with certain people sopmetimes. And those are great photos!


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## Herzo

That is just great. Love your pictures.


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## Malorey

Serenity is a very good looking dog, and it looks like she enjoyed her walk! Nice to hear she found someone of the human variety she is able to enjoy and be around.


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## xchairity_casex

Awww cute pics! and congratz!


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## Caty M

It's good she is getting better, for sure.. but I gotta agree with SD on this one- it is a HUGE liability letting a human aggressive dog offleash in public anywhere, but especially around kids. If she bites, which sounds pretty likely seeing as she has tried to before already, you're setting yourself up for a lawsuit and a fine- as well as putting Serenity in a situation where she could do something that comes natural to her and have to be put down. Worth it? No.


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## twoisplenty

I would never put my dog or another person (especially a child) at risk knowing that my dog has HA issues. I hope you have informed Zoe's parents that your dog has known aggression issues towards people.


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## BarbaraClark

Great pics! Tahlz!

To others: there is absolutely no need for snarky, rude, or condescending comments. You don't like what Tahlz does with her dog? That's totally fine, but you don't have to be rude about it. Grow up.

And in defense of Tahlz, she didn't just throw Serenity in with some kid and hope for the best. She has done extensive work with Serenity to train her on and off leash around people with and without a muzzle. Serenity has not shown any signs of human aggression for a very long time (besides her herding instinct of nipping at heels, which is not HA), and had interacted with these children in a safe and controlled environment while being closely monitored by Tahlz for any sign of negative body language before this occurred. When she showed none after a few interactions, then and only then was she allowed this sort of freedom. So please, learn about what is really going on before you decide to jump to conclusions and make flaming comments towards one of the most peaceful and kind people I have ever known.


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## Tahlz

For those with the positive replys, thank you so much! I am super proud of her. We've been working so hard and we still have a lot of work to do but this has made me happy. Today, we met a new kid, Zoe's friend and Serenity's normal reaction is to cower away but Serenity went up for a pet. She's doing good.

Savage; I don't classify Serenity as HA because if she was, she'd be worse then what she is. Her main issues is because of her breed, it took a long time to figure that out and it should have been obvious. She wants to herd more then anything. Yes, she still has slight weird issues towards people, in certain situations but she only ever tries to nip the feet. 

Barb explained it perfectly.

I've been putting a ton of effort in to Serenity. Also, I don't really care what anyone else sas about what I do with Serenity. She's my dog, you aren't the one who has to worry. 

Also, yes, Zoe's parents know of Serenity's issues. Serenity is smitten over Zoe. I am not worried about Zoe. I am still careful but Serenity seems to adore Zoe.

and.. cause these pics are cute.

no, she wasn't afraid, she was standing this way due to the hill;


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## Tahlz




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## creek817

I'm so glad she's doing so well! What part of QLD are you in? We go up to Warwick about twice a year =)

Glad my dog isn't the only one that likes Doritos. haha. Dobby isn't allowed any, but I found him under the ute with an empty bag one day (which had been about 1/4 full). Brat.

I'm not usualy a huge fan of black and tan kelpies, the ones I've seen have been very awkward and gangly, but she's precious =)


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## Tahlz

I'm an hour from Brisbane, I'm in Beenleigh. How far is Warick from Beenleigh? I'm curious now. Do you visit family in Warick?

Lol, they can be sneaky at times, can't they!? Uh, mine are allowed almost anything if I have something, I'll share. Though, I don't think I should be with them eating RAW.

Thank you! I find her to be adorable as well. She is smaller then most so thats why she doesn't look lanky and awkward =P


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## MissMercury

Uhm....What the Hell is a "ute" ?


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## Tahlz

A car

Ute - Google Search

There are a few different looking ones but here's one example. 

Outback Ute - Google Search


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## MissMercury

I see. You guys have the strangest words down there!


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## Tahlz

You guys are the ones with the strange words. What do you guys call them?


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## MissMercury

We dont have those.


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## Tahlz

Wow. Do you guys have any cars that look like a Ute?


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## creek817

Lol I'm American but I live here now. At home a ute would be a small pickup truck. 

We go to Warwick for Polocrosse. It's only about an hour tops over the state line. 45 minutes south of Toowoomba. My partners sister lives in Toowoomba, so I guess you could say we visit family too, as we usually see her when we are up there. Other than Wandoan (wayyyy out far north qld) it's the furthest north I've been yet. 

I love driving over the nsw/qld border and seeing the no rabbits signs. I think it's hilarious haha.


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## Caty M

BarbaraClark said:


> Great pics! Tahlz!
> 
> To others: there is absolutely no need for snarky, rude, or condescending comments. You don't like what Tahlz does with her dog? That's totally fine, but you don't have to be rude about it. Grow up.
> 
> And in defense of Tahlz, she didn't just throw Serenity in with some kid and hope for the best. She has done extensive work with Serenity to train her on and off leash around people with and without a muzzle. Serenity has not shown any signs of human aggression for a very long time (besides her herding instinct of nipping at heels, which is not HA), and had interacted with these children in a safe and controlled environment while being closely monitored by Tahlz for any sign of negative body language before this occurred. When she showed none after a few interactions, then and only then was she allowed this sort of freedom. So please, learn about what is really going on before you decide to jump to conclusions and make flaming comments towards one of the most peaceful and kind people I have ever known.


I wasn't being rude.. I was stating the facts- that it's a liability, especially around kids, and one that she admitted that the dog was not comfortable with- and it was only a few weeks ago that she stated that Serenity is a fear biter! I do not think it's wrong to point that out. A human aggressive dog, or a nipper, or a fear biter- should be muzzled or at least leashed in public, period. This was taken from a thread only a month ago:



> My IDIOT older brother has done something very very frigging stupid and the police may raid out house. I have my friendly Lab x free roaming of the yard. I have Serenity, my Kelpie x who is on her zipline, who is a bloody damn bite risk! and I know how storys add up when police meet a unfriendly dog. This is Australia.. I don't know if they would hurt her if she is restrained.. but i know she will be barking/trying to bite.


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## Savage Destiny

Tahlz said:


> Savage; I don't classify Serenity as HA because if she was, she'd be worse then what she is. Her main issues is because of her breed, it took a long time to figure that out and it should have been obvious. She wants to herd more then anything. Yes, she still has slight weird issues towards people, in certain situations but she only ever tries to nip the feet.


Really? That's funny, because you used to. So you're telling me that the dog you keep on a tie out because you're afraid she'll jump the fence to go after people isn't HA. Same dog that you were just freaking out about when you were on vacation because strangers might come into her yard and she'd go after them. You were afraid the cops might shoot her because she went after them. But she's not HA now. Right. Love that you gloss over everything now that you're on a forum where nobody knows you and your history with your dogs.

You were the one who let it escalate in the first place. You were told time and again that she was a herding breed, and given advice on how to curb her issues as they blossomed, but you're just NOW "realizing" that her issues are based on that? She might have been an ankle nipper to begin with, but when you let it get out of hand as she grew, it became much more than that. 



BarbaraClark said:


> To others: there is absolutely no need for snarky, rude, or condescending comments. You don't like what Tahlz does with her dog? That's totally fine, but you don't have to be rude about it. Grow up.
> 
> And in defense of Tahlz, she didn't just throw Serenity in with some kid and hope for the best. She has done extensive work with Serenity to train her on and off leash around people with and without a muzzle. Serenity has not shown any signs of human aggression for a very long time (besides her herding instinct of nipping at heels, which is not HA), and had interacted with these children in a safe and controlled environment while being closely monitored by Tahlz for any sign of negative body language before this occurred. When she showed none after a few interactions, then and only then was she allowed this sort of freedom. So please, learn about what is really going on before you decide to jump to conclusions and make flaming comments towards one of the most peaceful and kind people I have ever known.


I think that perhaps _you_ should learn what is really going on before you post. I've watched Tah and her drama for years. Perhaps you should find out the whole back story before you jump to her defense. I really don't know how she always manages to find people to leap to her defense no matter what she does with her dogs. 

What you seem to be neglecting to notice is that her _human aggressive_ dog is off leash in a _public area_. I'm not talking about the kids she supposedly desensitized them to, if their parents are fine with it then whatever. I'm talking about random people who could be out for a hike or jog and be surprised by a dog out of reach or control of its owner that is not friendly and could bite them. That is not acceptable in ANY WAY. A dog that will bite, nip, or charge strangers should NEVER EVER be off leash in public. Period. Not only is it wildly irresponsible, it puts Serenity herself in danger, since if she bites someone, she could get euthanized. I don't care if she "hasn't shown signs" of HA in a while (which I doubt anyway), a dog that has proven they will try to bite should never be off leash. It's just plain stupid. 

So why is she off leash again, Tah? I remember having this conversation with you before, and you swore you wouldn't be letting her off again because you realized how dangerous it was. Was that just crap to get people to stop bothering you, or did you decide that leashes ruin your pretty pictures again?


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## BarbaraClark

Caty M said:


> I wasn't being rude.. I was stating the facts- that it's a liability, especially around kids, and one that she admitted that the dog was not comfortable with- and it was only a few weeks ago that she stated that Serenity is a fear biter! I do not think it's wrong to point that out. A human aggressive dog, or a nipper, or a fear biter- should be muzzled or at least leashed in public, period. This was taken from a thread only a month ago:


If you weren't being rude, then what I said doesn't apply to you. I think you did very well at explaining your POV without being mean about it.




Savage Destiny said:


> Really? That's funny, because you used to. So you're telling me that the dog you keep on a tie out because you're afraid she'll jump the fence to go after people isn't HA. Same dog that you were just freaking out about when you were on vacation because strangers might come into her yard and she'd go after them. You were afraid the cops might shoot her because she went after them. But she's not HA now. Right. Love that you gloss over everything now that you're on a forum where nobody knows you and your history with your dogs.
> 
> You were the one who let it escalate in the first place. You were told time and again that she was a herding breed, and given advice on how to curb her issues as they blossomed, but you're just NOW "realizing" that her issues are based on that? She might have been an ankle nipper to begin with, but when you let it get out of hand as she grew, it became much more than that.
> 
> 
> 
> I think that perhaps _you_ should learn what is really going on before you post. I've watched Tah and her drama for years. Perhaps you should find out the whole back story before you jump to her defense. I really don't know how she always manages to find people to leap to her defense no matter what she does with her dogs.
> 
> What you seem to be neglecting to notice is that her _human aggressive_ dog is off leash in a _public area_. I'm not talking about the kids she supposedly desensitized them to, if their parents are fine with it then whatever. I'm talking about random people who could be out for a hike or jog and be surprised by a dog out of reach or control of its owner that is not friendly and could bite them. That is not acceptable in ANY WAY. A dog that will bite, nip, or charge strangers should NEVER EVER be off leash in public. Period. Not only is it wildly irresponsible, it puts Serenity herself in danger, since if she bites someone, she could get euthanized. I don't care if she "hasn't shown signs" of HA in a while (which I doubt anyway), a dog that has proven they will try to bite should never be off leash. It's just plain stupid.
> 
> So why is she off leash again, Tah? I remember having this conversation with you before, and you swore you wouldn't be letting her off again because you realized how dangerous it was. Was that just crap to get people to stop bothering you, or did you decide that leashes ruin your pretty pictures again?


You're an adult, correct? Please behave like one.

There is a much better way to get a point across rather than being a butt. There really is. Flaming and rude condescending comments are unneeded and like I said, really just make you look extremely immature.

I come to Tahlz defense because she is a nice person and doesnt deserve to be bullied, which is exactly what you are doing now and what I have seen you do to her on other Internet sites. Are there things she does with her dogs that I disagree with? Sure. But does that mean I should be rude and rip her head off? No, because there's a such thing as civility and courtesy. You should learn about it.

But once again, it doesn't matter what you believe has happened. You said "which I doubt anyway"... It doesn't really matter. Do you live with Serenity or Tahlz? No. So what you "doubt" doesn't effect anything. You are behaving as if she is letting Serenity off leash at some public park with some random kids she's never met before. That's not the case at all. She is letting Serenity off leash on a hiking trail they frequent and is always abandoned/empty. Serenity has had multiple encounters with this child with a muzzle on first, and then she was trusted without a muzzle. Serenity has also proven herself in many instances to come when called, even when people are around. You say you've dealt with Tahlz for years, but it's obvious it's been a long time since you've had any sort of interaction with her whatsoever or you would know the progress Serenity has made in the past 6 months or so. And since you don't, I hardly think you should be flaming her and telling her what she shouldn't be doing with a dog that you don't even know the improvement level of. Serenity now has almost flawless recall when people are around (and this was tested on a long line, I'm pretty sure, Tahlz correct me if I'm wrong) and she hasn't had any human aggressive problems in a long while. Yes, Tahlz did go on vacation and was worried about Serenity biting a cop for a raid...does that mean Serenity is some vicious animal? No. My dogs would probably bite in that sort of situation. It's a police raid where tension is high and so is fear. It's a definite bite situation even for dogs with no history of human aggression or fear. 

My only real point is...it's totally fine if you disagree with what Tahlz does with her dogs. But to be rude and snarky and condescending about it is uncalled for. There's no reason to be so mean. None whatsoever.


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## Sprocket

ute, how do you pronounce that?

We have these which are comparable I think 

http://www.boston.com/cars/newsandreviews/overdrive/2010/03/29/Subaru-Baja-607.jpg

http://www.denhamautosport.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/El-Camino.jpeg

http://files.conceptcarz.com/img/Chevrolet/chevy_ssr_manu-06_08.jpg


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## BarbaraClark

When I read it, I say "oot" which makes me think "poot", which then makes me giggle like a child. :lol:


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## Sprocket

I read it as "You - Tee"


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## Caty M

It rhymes with moot. Like yout


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## DaneMama

That's enough bickering. I see a debate here that hasn't gotten to the point of being out of line. Anymore and I'll shut the thread down


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## Tahlz

I'm going to respond and then leave it at that because you won't agree with what I do and I won't listen to you.

No, she isn't off leash for 'pretty' pics. She's off to give her some freedom to run/explore without getting tangled every few seconds. It may be a public place but it's not a park with loads of random people, it's a isolated area where people hardly go and if there happens to be some one, it's easy to get her back to me.

As Barb said, there are things I'm sure she doesn't agree with me doing and that's fine. She can state what she thinks but after that, if I'm not going to listen, you might as well move on. Not jump on every thread I make that you don't agree with.

I don't care who knows my history on the other forum, if they don't want to like me because of that, I don't want to know them. I am growing and changing, I'm putting effort in to Serenity, we train/exercise everyday.

Also, I still stand by saying she isn't HA. A real deal HA dog isn't going to do what Serenity can do. Of course she'd want to go after cops, they entered HER YARD, she is protecting her yard, she is protective at times. For a dog that also has fear issues, do you really think they will be alright with random people coming in to her yard?

I worry about her jumping the fence and going after people because of her herding instinct and the fact she can be fearful at times. She may be fine, I don't know. I'm not by her side so she has no guidance. I remember months and months ago (last year, this happened AGES ago) when she did, for the first time get out and some one find her and Sunny. She allowed them to pick her up and carry her home. No biting involved.

She is protective at times and I wouldn't call that HA.

It's not like she tries to attack people when we walk past them, she behaves and walks past. A true HA would, I'm sure. She now shows interest towards people, in a good way.

Till you know the work we do and you know her/me personally, I'm not bothered by what you say.


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## Tahlz

Also, I did actually keep her on leash for a while after I said i would. I have only been letting her off more because or her training we've been working on.


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## MollyWoppy

Caty M said:


> It rhymes with moot. Like yout


Correct, rhymes with boot. 
That's one thing I noticed when I moved here, there are no utes (well, in FL anyway) that I could see. We have Holden and Falcon Ute's. Falcon's are Ford by the way, but they must cater to the down under crowd because there ain't no Ford Falcon Ute's here, and I've driven all over America and never seen one, ever!


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## Caty M

I had a Holden down there.. :-D


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## MollyWoppy

Yeah, we had a Holden Ute too, they are nice cars. Grunty!


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## Caty M

Mine was a Commodore SS, the car not the ute. LOL


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## Savage Destiny

Barb, for the record, I have tried being nice, and being nice doesn't seem to work with Tah at all. I've seen her ignore advice from people for ages, no matter how it's given. At this point, I just say exactly what's on my mind instead of trying to be nice, since putting extra effort into sugar coating what I say doesn't seem to make a whit of difference. 

Tah, all I can say to you is that you've definitely managed to pull the wool over a lot of people's eyes, yet again.


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## Tahlz

I'm not trying to pull the wool over anyones eyes. I'd be happy to let them go look through all my threads. I'm not hiding anything, I was a big idiot with a lot of things I did, I did ignore a lot of advice and so forth. I will happily link Barb to every thread on PBF. If she wants to hate me on my past, that's her choice.

O. And I would happily like to report we did go hiking, with both dogs and guess what? A person crossed our path? And guess what? Serenity came straight to me and sat down, she didn't even bother to try and run after the guy. Just proves her training has worked well.*

Sunny did well too. He stood there and stared but then came straight to me.


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## Herzo

Some off those on the google search I would definitely call a small truck, but from what I saw Chevy has one off those don't know what it's called and in olden days the 70's I think............ we had the Camaro!!!!! that could be a spelling problem.

And on the other note I don't know her history so a person not knowing it,it does sound snarky....... just sayin. Not sayin you may not have a point, just don't know so I have to say glad your girl is doing better and keep up the good work.


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