# Honest Kitchen vs. Evo



## flippedstars (May 22, 2010)

We have a dog that does not tolerate grains or chicken. After tests, and trying a wide variety of different foods (I swear I have tried every single dog food out there that isn't utter crap...and I know, all you RAW PREY MODELS are shaking your head), we finally tried him on EVO Red Meat Small Bites, and he has done best on that. 

He is only 2.5 lbs and almost full grown, so cost isn't a consideration for feeding him. Things I do have to consider are I travel frequently with him, so I need a convenient take-a-long option. 

I also don't have the time or space resources to feed RAW right now. Complicating that, the one time he's sniped raw chicken from my other dogs, he got very, very ill (they get chicken wing bones with some meat removed 2-3 times a week to help with teeth, as well as a few other RMB...when we are home and we have this option. I do other dental care as well). And chicken is the primary raw food people feed. Anyway...

So I am considering trying feeding him THK Embark with, at least for now, small amounts of lean beef when we are home and I have that ability, but otherwise, it looks like we will probably feed him EVO if we don't go this route.

His tummy is VERY sensitive and he can NOT have chicken or most grains, ESPECIALLY rices.

Just wondering if anyone has a feeling one way or the other on which is the way to go.

I know there are a lot of diehard prey model feeders here...please understand, I love my dog, but right now that just won't work.


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## Huskyluv (Jun 25, 2010)

Well hello there! :wink:

You already know my take on this but I vote Honest Kitchen if he can tolerate it. If not then I'd stick with what you know, the Evo RM. Have you tried the Embark yet?


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## ruckusluvr (Oct 28, 2009)

i also vote for honest kitchen. i honestly have never fed it, but i know dogs that are on it. they look great! and clients just rave about this food


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## flippedstars (May 22, 2010)

Huskyluv said:


> Well hello there! :wink:
> 
> You already know my take on this but I vote Honest Kitchen if he can tolerate it. If not then I'd stick with what you know, the Evo RM. Have you tried the Embark yet?



We ordered it, so it won't get here until Monday, I believe. There is a store here that can order it in as well so if we decide I like it, which I think we will, we'll stick w/ it. I really hope he can tolerate it.:smile:


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## flippedstars (May 22, 2010)

ruckusluvr said:


> i also vote for honest kitchen. i honestly have never fed it, but i know dogs that are on it. they look great! and clients just rave about this food


I hope he can handle it. Part of what I like about the Embark is it has a relatively high fiber content LOL, and if ever there was a dog in need of fiber, it is my little guy! 

I know people say it's "soup" and blah blah blah, but honestly to me, logically, seems easier to digest...we'll see how it goes.


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## kevin bradley (Aug 9, 2009)

I just don't see how anyone can afford Honest Kitchen. 

AND this is from someone feeding Acana and Orijen currently :biggrin:


seriously, HK is $5+/lbs. 


Overall looks like great food though.


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

I don't know much about dehydrated food for dogs but this food is one our raw food co-op was able to start getting and everyone was really excited about it being available in the U.S. NRG Pet Products Smart Nutritional Research Group Ltd dehydrated pet food dehydrated dog food


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## flippedstars (May 22, 2010)

kevin bradley said:


> I just don't see how anyone can afford Honest Kitchen.
> 
> AND this is from someone feeding Acana and Orijen currently :biggrin:
> 
> ...


Well he eats so little it hopefully won't be to costly. He's only 2.5 lbs so that's only a few tablespoons of food per day. So...we'll see. 

We tried him on the Acana Grasslands and no go. :-/ I"m just hunting now...so we'll see.


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## flippedstars (May 22, 2010)

whiteleo said:


> I don't know much about dehydrated food for dogs but this food is one our raw food co-op was able to start getting and everyone was really excited about it being available in the U.S. NRG Pet Products Smart Nutritional Research Group Ltd dehydrated pet food dehydrated dog food


They don't specifiy meat type/source, so that won't work for my little guy as he absolutely can't have chicken and we almost lost him when we first got him discovering that :-/ Thank you for sharing the link though, looks interesting for those that don't have food sensitivities!


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## Huskyluv (Jun 25, 2010)

kevin bradley said:


> I just don't see how anyone can afford Honest Kitchen.
> 
> AND this is from someone feeding Acana and Orijen currently :biggrin:
> 
> ...


The Honest Kitchen really isn't that expensive. Looking at the price on the box may give you sticker shock but that is for the dehydrated product. Let's take the most expensive formula into consideration which is Embark. Embark sells for about $83 for a 10 lb box. However that 10 lb box actually makes 43 lbs of food once rehydrated so you're really paying $83 for 43 lbs worth of food which ends up being $1.93/lb

Before switching to THK I fed my dogs Evo which cost me $55 for a 28.6 lb bag. That calculates out to $1.92/lb.

I feed my dogs THK Keen formula which costs me $52 for a 10 lb box which makes 43 lbs of food. So it really ends up costing me $1.21/lb which is actually cheaper than what I paid per lb with Evo (and Evo is even cheaper than Orijen!). :wink:




whiteleo said:


> I don't know much about dehydrated food for dogs but this food is one our raw food co-op was able to start getting and everyone was really excited about it being available in the U.S. NRG Pet Products Smart Nutritional Research Group Ltd dehydrated pet food dehydrated dog food


I am a fan of dehydrated raw food, I definitely prefer it over any kibble. However I would be concerned about the product you linked to and it's not something I would consider because it does not name the meat in it. "Free range meat" doesn't tell me what it is.


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## SaltyDog (Mar 10, 2010)

My 11 month old Weim puppy likes both Thrive and Embark. My 4 yr old Weim doesn't care to much for Thrive, but will eat it.

Currently, I'm feeding them Preference (the one you have to add the meat to). They get half a cup of preference and one cup of cooked boneless chicken breast in the morning and evening. As far as Honest Kitchen being expensive??? This combo costs me a $1.87 a dog a day to feed. And it is plenty of food for two 70lb weimeraners.

When I feed kibble, my puppy eats Orijen Large Breed Puppy and my adult eats Evo Chicken and Turkey. She also like Evo Red meat. I understand that you want a kibble for travel. If I have to board my dogs or have my parents watch them, it just seems like explaining how to feed Honest Kitchen is mad science to people.....it's just easier to use a high quality kibble for these situations. As long as I'm feeding them, then they only get Honest Kitchen meals.


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

The NRG website is very interesting and if you read it, it infact does tell you that they offer their food in several different proteins, but for the ingredient list it just put free range meat instead of choosing to list chicken, or salmon or beef for that particular kind of dehydrated food.


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## kevin bradley (Aug 9, 2009)

Huskyluv said:


> The Honest Kitchen really isn't that expensive. Looking at the price on the box may give you sticker shock but that is for the dehydrated product. Let's take the most expensive formula into consideration which is Embark. Embark sells for about $83 for a 10 lb box. However that 10 lb box actually makes 43 lbs of food once rehydrated so you're really paying $83 for 43 lbs worth of food which ends up being $1.93/lb
> 
> Before switching to THK I fed my dogs Evo which cost me $55 for a 28.6 lb bag. That calculates out to $1.92/lb.
> 
> ...



wow, thanks. I learned something. I had no idea about the dehydrated aspect of the food. 

I gotta go do some reading before I post out here again


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## Doc (Jan 17, 2009)

kevin bradley said:


> wow, thanks. I learned something. I had no idea about the dehydrated aspect of the food.
> 
> I gotta go do some reading before I post out here again


You can usually find a $5 coupon on the web-site. Here is how my dogs ranked some the products:

1. Embarq
2. Keen
3. Thrive ( not real wild about this one)

I always would add some additional raw meat i.e. chicken quarter, pork rib, etc.


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## Huskyluv (Jun 25, 2010)

Doc said:


> You can usually find a $5 coupon on the web-site. Here is how my dogs ranked some the products:
> 
> 1. Embarq
> 2. Keen
> ...


They do sometimes have coupons available. Currently I don't think they have any on their website. I do have $5 off coupons if anyone is interested, just let me know.

My dogs don't seem to prefer one formula over another but they do the best on Force. I rotate between the different formulas for variety and regularly mix in raw meat, cooked meat and canned foods.


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## flippedstars (May 22, 2010)

I'm so excited. Our "Embark" formula came today so I decided to test it out. I figured mine would turn up their noses and walk away as I've read that seems to be a common response.

Maybe my dogs are just pigs, but they GOBBLED it. I did a 1:1 rehydration ratio, and it wasn't "soupy" at all, something I was scared it might be. It was about the consistency of cookie dough or thereabouts. 

Because the Embark is a bit more expensive, I will first finish the kibble we have with this mixed in, then transition them to having raw meat mixed in. They already get raw meaty bones, but I was pleased when I got the food. You can actually see the bits of things that are dehydrated, its not just a "powder". 

Will keep everyone updated on how mine react long term and how I adjust feeding. I do like the Fromm kibble we've been feeding and I am sure we will always keep some on hand as it is made by a small, private manufacturer that has answered all of my questions in a timely manner and I truly feel comfortable with the food, but as I think many of us here are, I am always looking for a better alternative to kibble.

I like that I can easily mix in raw meat (or cooked), and still know they are getting a good balance of protein, fiber and fat...backing me up incase I give the wrong proportions.


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## Dana (Oct 27, 2009)

I think I've tried every HK formula except Verve, and my dogs GOBBLED each of them - they loved them. I saw a little less excitement over the Thrive, but they still liked it and licked the bowls clean!

"You can actually see the bits of things that are dehydrated, its not just a "powder". "

Yes....you can.....and you can also see these things in their poop - well, at least I had that with one of my dogs. It also made her poop a LOT - but it may be that it didn't agree with her stomach (she's got a sensitive stomach) so watch out for that.

It's a great food. They are coming out with a new forumla (grain free with a fish protein, will be called Zeal)....according to their facebook site.

Dana


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## Huskyluv (Jun 25, 2010)

I'm glad to hear your pack liked the food at least. I'm looking forward to hearing how they do on it after feeding it for a while. :smile:


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## stajbs (Jun 5, 2010)

Have begun to seriously consider this food also. I have also been in touch with the staff about our two senior siberians and what formula(s) might be best. They have suggested I run the nurtient profile for Force by our vet, to insure the phosphorous/calcium ratio won't be a problem for our boy who had a very slightly elevated creatinine level with his bloodwork in June. I know his bun to creatinine level was in the low range of normal and his phosphorous was low normal, all other numbers were in the low or mid range of wnl, but I need to check calcium anyways, and also with the vet for peace of mind.
I like the idea we could still cook for the dogs, but our dogs do like variety and I am wondering how they would do with just having Force, and then maybe we add some cooked or quality canned for variety on occasion. The difference for our dogs would be that we rotate their kibble quarterly or so and it appears Force might be the one formula they would do best with at their age and based on their bloodwork. 
Anyone have experience with the Force formula in particular?


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## Huskyluv (Jun 25, 2010)

stajbs said:


> Anyone have experience with the Force formula in particular?


I've fed all of the HK formulas and by far my sibe does the absolute best on Force, hands down. Force is actually the formula that I recommend the most because of not only my own personal experience with it but also the vast majority of HK feeders who also have had the same results of Force giving them the best results as well. I know another husky owner who has a sibe with IBD who does the best on Force as well.


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## stajbs (Jun 5, 2010)

Thanks Huskyluv. Our guys have been primarily on fish based kibble, cooked(variety of meats) and evangers/merrick canned for a while. I am hoping to feed a better quality of food, and at this point I need to be a bit "gentle" with Blaze's kidneys. I know the Force is chicken based, and I just recently learned that fish and beef contain more creatine, therefore creating higher creatinine levels on occasion with some dogs. Soooo...in this case Force might be a good change. If this is definitely the case I wish I had known it sooner. I am just glad we opted for baseline bloodwork now that he hit 11, should have done it sooner. 

I was very happy when this thread popped up because I had just started to look into Honest Kitchen and it has been helpful to read other's opinions. Thanks again.


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## flippedstars (May 22, 2010)

Two meals in , and even my picky eater, Oakley, gobbled it. Honestly, they are tired of kibble. I don't "cater" to their whims, but I do cook and give raw, so I guess kibble is very uninteresting to them. Either way, I am sure we will keep a bit of kibble on hand, but barring gross poos from sensitive tummy (Bryco), we are gonna give feeding this a go, because mine just aren't enthused over kibble.


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## Huskyluv (Jun 25, 2010)

flippedstars said:


> ... we are gonna give feeding this a go, because mine just aren't enthused over kibble.


I have never seen my dogs so excited about their food on any kibble or canned food ever, but they are all crazy for THK. I know what you mean!

How is Bryco doing on it so far? Fingers crossed for you.


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## stajbs (Jun 5, 2010)

Spoke with hubby about it and planning to fax the vet info this week on Force, and also order some samples. Not the itty bitty samples, but I think at least two of the 4 oz samples which should give us 2 lbs and we will see how they like it. Looking forward to trying this food and hoping they love it and the vet thinks it won't be a problem for Blaze. Based on the protein info I think the Force would be best, maybe the Keen, but not sure about that one. Priced everything out today and it would be comparable with what we pay now for 30lbs. of their kibble.


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## flippedstars (May 22, 2010)

That's exciting ... definitely keep us up to date on how it goes. 

Mine are all still liking it so far. I really don't like how the Embark smells LOL but will get over it.

Bryco has done well on it, too. He seems to be pooping a bit more but its solid so I pretty much have no complaints as his poos were for a long time epic disaster LOL.


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## stajbs (Jun 5, 2010)

We are kind of excited to try it too. I actually forgot to factor in the canned and cooked meats too when I did the math earlier. The Force was only about 15 cents per pound more but when I add the canned and meat we buy our current feeding costs more. I expect to still add the occasional quality canned or lightly cooked meat, but now I know to also stay away from beef and fish. 

I am slightly concerned because Blaze had a slight reaction to Innova with itchy skin when we added that to the kibble rotation, and Force is chicken based, but it is gluten free. I can't remember now if Innova was chicken and or turkey based meat protein. My old memory fails me. lol 

I am thinking it should be very convenient when we travel too. I've always hauled our own water due to a prior situation where two of our dogs had upset stomachs when we were gone for a week, and I had to use water from a local source. Rectified that problem by heauling more water after that.


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## SaltyDog (Mar 10, 2010)

flippedstars said:


> Mine are all still liking it so far. I really don't like how the Embark smells LOL but will get over it.
> 
> Bryco has done well on it, too. He seems to be pooping a bit more but its solid so I pretty much have no complaints as his poos were for a long time epic disaster LOL.



They will poop more on embark due to the 9.6% of fiber content.


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## flippedstars (May 22, 2010)

SaltyDog said:


> They will poop more on embark due to the 9.6% of fiber content.


Gotcha. Should have thought that one through on my own. I was wondering why my puppy that has seldom ever had hard stools, is having them now...durrrr. Can't complain though, they are easy to pick up after and not nearly as gross.

Will get the older 3 on the Keen as soon as we get it, but keep the puppy on the Embark for as long as I should, then see how he does on the Keen.


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## SaltyDog (Mar 10, 2010)

If you are up for it, it is cheaper to put them on Preference and add your own meat. Plus, Preference is grain free, gluten free and potato free.

You figure, a big box of Preference is $50 and a big box of Embark is $70. It doesn't cost $20 for 3lbs of meat (which is roughly how much meat is in Thrive and Embark). You can usually buy fresh meat at a meat market for between $1.25 and $2.00 per lb of fresh meat.

The only parts of Honest Kitchen that are still high temp processed is the meats.


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## Huskyluv (Jun 25, 2010)

Preference is a good choice if you're going to add your own meat on a daily basis. An added protein source is required to feed Preference but not absolutely necessary with any of their other formulas. I buy the formulas with meat included because while I do mix in other meats several times a week I don't do it daily and those days that I don't add additional meat the Preference would not work. Just my personal feeding schedule though.

Saltydog is correct on the meat being dehydrated at a higher temp in THK products. THK would not pass as human grade food and would not be allowed to be manufactured in a human food facility if it wasn't dehydrated the way they do it. The meat in THK is dehydrated at a temp of at least 120 F to kill off any contaminants/pathogens...this is also what makes it safe for human consumption. :wink: The veggies in THK are dehydrated at a temp below 104 F so that they remain in their raw state.


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## notilloc (Jan 14, 2010)

My local dog store just dropped evo and is now carrying the honest kitchen. My dogs were on evo and I am slowly switching them to orijen and so far so good but if this is better than orijen then I want it if its about the same price. I have looked at the ingredients a few times now and have never really liked what I saw. What am I missing that makes the food so good?


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## Huskyluv (Jun 25, 2010)

notilloc said:


> My local dog store just dropped evo and is now carrying the honest kitchen. My dogs were on evo and I am slowly switching them to orijen and so far so good but if this is better than orijen then I want it if its about the same price. I have looked at the ingredients a few times now and have never really liked what I saw. What am I missing that makes the food so good?


I like THK for a variety of reasons. First off, it's human grade and is made in a human food facility alongside human food products. How many dog foods are good enough for YOU to eat?

Second, it's not processed as harshly as kibble which is often heated at high temperatures and extruded, whereas THK is gently dehydrated. 

Third, I like being able to look at the label on my dogs food and be able to easily know, recognize, and pronounce the ingredients in it. THK's ingredient labels are short and easily readable by even a young child...even I took a while reading the labels on Evo (which I used to feed, for example) and pronouncing all the ingredients. I also like having less ingredients because 2 of my 3 dogs have very sensitive stomachs. Having fewer ingredients also makes it easier to pinpoint the problem if an allergy or sensitivity arises.

Fourth, is the company's ethics, information and transparency. I have never seen any other pet food company be as open about their entire process, food sources, sustainability practices, and overt willingness to listen to their consumers. Us consumers have a voice and can actually have some say in the new products they have coming out. For example their new fish based formula, Zeal, which is coming out soon (currently in test batches right now) was discussed with consumers and THK execs asked for Honest Kitchen customers to provide feedback on which fish we wanted to see in Zeal. The company is strict about what stores are allowed to be resellers, they support free range and sustainable farming practices, and their boxes are made from recycled materials and printed with soy based inks to help the environment.

Fifth, I am a huge believer in raw feeding but due to ours and others' life situations and preferences we can't all feed a true raw diet. I like that THK offers some of the benefits of raw combined with the convenience of kibble. Raw fed dogs don't eat dry cereal, their food contains water. THK, once reconstituted, also offers dogs a more natural food that contains plenty of moisture and is not overly processed thereby retaining more nutrients.

Lastly, I've fed many different kibbles to my three and always had to have two different foods because there was always at least one of them that didn't do well on the others' kibble. With THK I can have all 3 of them on the same food and they all do amazing on it. I used to feed Evo and was really happy with it but I am so much happier with THK since switching. Plus, not only are my dogs doing better on THK but it costs a lot less for me to feed than Evo.

Anyway, that's just some of the main reasons why I love The Honest Kitchen.


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## notilloc (Jan 14, 2010)

Huskyluv said:


> I like THK for a variety of reasons. First off, it's human grade and is made in a human food facility alongside human food products. How many dog foods are good enough for YOU to eat?
> 
> Second, it's not processed as harshly as kibble which is often heated at high temperatures and extruded, whereas THK is gently dehydrated.
> 
> ...


Ok thank you very much. I noticed that the highest protien is embark and moisturized it has 16% protein. Do you have to add your own meat or is that good? My dogs have been on over 40% protein for a year now and do pretty well. I only ask this because I have two very high energy dogs and I know protein isnt everything but it is pretty important especially with my dogs and all of their activities. Sorry for all the questions.


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## Huskyluv (Jun 25, 2010)

notilloc said:


> Ok thank you very much. I noticed that the highest protien is embark and moisturized it has 16% protein. Do you have to add your own meat or is that good? My dogs have been on over 40% protein for a year now and do pretty well. I only ask this because I have two very high energy dogs and I know protein isnt everything but it is pretty important especially with my dogs and all of their activities. Sorry for all the questions.


No worries. My dogs were on Evo which is also high protein (42%) like what you feed your dogs. One of my dogs is a very high energy breed (Siberian husky) and I haven't noticed any change at all in his energy level. He's still the crazy energetic boy that can go on forever like he always was on high protein Evo kibble. And that's with him on Keen which is 21% protein. I know that some of us with high energy breeds can actually become a bit too crazy from high protein kibbles and I know of other Sibe owners who were happy about having slightly less neurotic dogs after switching to THK which has a lower protein content.

I do add my own raw and cooked meat several times a week, it is not required with any formula except Preference but I like to add my own variety to my dogs' food. THK is a very versatile food and can be mixed with kibble, canned, cooked or raw food. I mix it with all of them on a rotational basis. For example last week I added Welless Core canned food to my dogs' Honest Kitchen food. Yesterday I mixed in cooked (boneless) chicken with THK, today I am giving a mix of THK with raw beef.

The different percentages given by THK regarding the protein can be a little confusing. Let's take Embark since that's the one you've looked at already. Embark, as received, is about 29% protein before rehydration. For example, let's say you should feed your dog 1 cup of THK. That one cup is 29% and "X" number grams of protein. After you mix in a cup of water to that one cup of HK the "X" number grams of protein stays the same but obviously the percentage goes down to about 14.5% because of the water diluting it. But despite the dilution the actual amount of protein stays the same. If you did the same thing to kibble you'd have the same result, dilute 1 cup of 42% protein kibble with 1 cup of water and you'd have a protein percentage of 21%. I know you don't rehydrate kibble like you would THK but my point is that your dog would still be getting that original 29%/X # of grams of protein in Embark whether it's rehydrated or not, the amount of protein stays the same which is why I've never been one to put too much stock in protein percentages. 

I hope that makes sense... In another example, I pour myself half a glass of soda which contains 50% or 10 grams of sugar. Now I fill the glass to the top with water. So now my full glass of 1/2 water & 1/2 soda contains 25% sugar but still has the same 10 grams of sugar...so the same goes for THK.

Hope that helps rather than making things more confusing.


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## DestaRR (Jul 26, 2010)

I used to feed a combination of THK and Evo before I went 100% raw. If I couldn't feed raw and I had to go with a commercial food I would probably go with THK even though I'm not 100% thrilled with all their ingredients and the amounts of certain ingredients.

When I did use it, I used Embark which is turkey based and grain free. Storefronts can be pretty pricey for it, but I do know there are some kennels and such out there that will sell it in 3 or 4 10 lb boxes and you can save a bit.


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## PUNKem733 (Jun 12, 2009)

So what's the general consensus? Is THK better than Evo and Orijen, when in months past most have said Evo and Orijen is better.


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## Doc (Jan 17, 2009)

It is comparing apples to oranges.


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## stajbs (Jun 5, 2010)

Our two guys just gave their newly arrived samples of Force a four paws up. Not sure if I am doing the right thing at the moment but I rehydrated some of the food and added it to their kibble. They had their first taste of things tonight and they tucked right in. Unfortunately my vet is on vacation and the guy covering for her is truly old school. I gave up discussing this with him. Per Honest Kitchen staff they thought it would be wise to run the calcium and phosphorous ratio past my vet before switching to Force totally due to Blaze's recent blood work. Based on my copy of his blood work I think it should be fine but the vet and I have been through several illnesses and diet changes through the years and I trust her progressive thinking and judgement. So I will be patient till she returns from Myrtle Beach. lol


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## Huskyluv (Jun 25, 2010)

stajbs said:


> Our two guys just gave their newly arrived samples of Force a four paws up. Not sure if I am doing the right thing at the moment but I rehydrated some of the food and added it to their kibble. They had their first taste of things tonight and they tucked right in. Unfortunately my vet is on vacation and the guy covering for her is truly old school. I gave up discussing this with him. Per Honest Kitchen staff they thought it would be wise to run the calcium and phosphorous ratio past my vet before switching to Force totally due to Blaze's recent blood work. Based on my copy of his blood work I think it should be fine but the vet and I have been through several illnesses and diet changes through the years and I trust her progressive thinking and judgement. So I will be patient till she returns from Myrtle Beach. lol


Sounds like it at least passed the taste test for your two. If you don't mind updating us, I'd like to know what your vet says when she gets back.


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## flippedstars (May 22, 2010)

Just an update, almost a week in, mine are all LOVING the Embark (got it a week ago) and Keen, which arrived Monday. They've been delicately eating around the kibble that is also in their bowls (we want to use up what we have, not waste).

Bryco, sensitive tummy pup, is doing better than I ever have seen him do on a food.

I will supplement several times a week with raw meats as I have been doing, coupled with things like plain lowfat yogurt, cottage cheese (low fat), cooked or raw egg, and of course, raw meaty bones. Yum yum say my doggies!


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## Huskyluv (Jun 25, 2010)

flippedstars said:


> Bryco, sensitive tummy pup, is doing better than I ever have seen him do on a food.


You have no idea how happy I am to hear that! :biggrin:


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## flippedstars (May 22, 2010)

PUNKem733 said:


> So what's the general consensus? Is THK better than Evo and Orijen, when in months past most have said Evo and Orijen is better.



I think if you outright compare the two, on paper Evo/Orijen are better. But they are still processed in a much more complicated way than THK. IMO, they are harder for my dogs to digest (they've been on both), and I have one nervous high energy little dog that simply doesn't tolerate higher proteins well. Mine definitely prefer to eat THK, and through mixing in added protein sources, I feel it is 'better' but that's just my opinion. 

Even if someone wasn't mixing in other ingredients, I think that the simple, less altered state of the food, makes it a great alternative for someone straying away from kibble. We also are going to try mixing in a bit of Ziwipeak for nights mom is too lazy to chop up raw meats to add (which can get complicated at times with a pup allergic to chicken, even in raw form...we've tried...such gross things happened LOL).

The Embark doesn't smell good to me, but the Keen smells delicious. You can see the dehydrated bits of food in it, and as long as you don't over hydrate it, it is not soupy at all. Kibble all smells the same...wonder why that is? Maybe my nose just isn't sensitive enough. Anyway, I think Evo & Orijen are great. We will always keep some on hand, as well as some Fromm, just because.


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## flippedstars (May 22, 2010)

Huskyluv said:


> You have no idea how happy I am to hear that! :biggrin:


We are still definitely figuring out portions. I can't wait till the open kibble bags are gone cuz it gets confusing LOL. He started on the Keen as well so I will be interested to see how he does on that.


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## debussyj (Jul 29, 2009)

My Vizsla has stomach problems and I have finally settled him down by rotating him between Honest Kitchen- Force and Embark and mixing a small amount of Orijen or Acana kibble with it. The dog is doing fantastic on this combination. It's really straightened out his acid stomach, etc. Best of luck to your pup.


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## channeledbymodem (Dec 25, 2008)

kevin bradley said:


> I just don't see how anyone can afford Honest Kitchen.
> 
> AND this is from someone feeding Acana and Orijen currently :biggrin:
> 
> ...


Each pound when hydrated makes over one pound of food. So the cost is actually a little less than better canned foods, depending on which version of HK is fed. The initial cost is high since the smallest boxes are 4 lbs but I think the cost as fed, especially in combination with fresh food supplements, is pretty reasonable. Anyone with large dogs is probably used to making some trade-offs unless cost is no object but for smaller dogs HK is cost effective.


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## johndh1 (May 21, 2010)

> The Honest Kitchen really isn't that expensive. Looking at the price on the box may give you sticker shock but that is for the dehydrated product. Let's take the most expensive formula into consideration which is Embark. Embark sells for about $83 for a 10 lb box. However that 10 lb box actually makes 43 lbs of food once rehydrated so you're really paying $83 for 43 lbs worth of food which ends up being $1.93/lb
> 
> Before switching to THK I fed my dogs Evo which cost me $55 for a 28.6 lb bag. That calculates out to $1.92/lb.
> 
> I feed my dogs THK Keen formula which costs me $52 for a 10 lb box which makes 43 lbs of food. So it really ends up costing me $1.21/lb which is actually cheaper than what I paid per lb with Evo (and Evo is even cheaper than Orijen!)


I am not sure that this statement is correct. You can't compare a 10% moisture dry-kibble with a 50% water and deshydrated product mix. The only way to compare these product is by using straight kcal/ $$$.

Embark is 488kcal/cup and Innova EVO Turkey formula is 537kcal/cup. Like it's states on THK website "A dry-measured cup of Thrive, as-received, weighs about 115 grams." and it's about the same for all for dry-kibble.

So a 10lb bag of *THK* is 39 cup = (39*488kcal)/83$= *299kcal/1$*
And a 28.6lb bag of *Evo* is 113 cup= (113*537kcal)/55$=*1103kcal/1$*

So THK is not even close to be affordable compare to premium dry kibble. Nonetheless the greater bioavailability and the nutrional profile is another factor than the price itself. So like channeledbymodem it could be a better alternative to dry-kibble for small dog or rich folks.


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## Huskyluv (Jun 25, 2010)

johndh1 said:


> I am not sure that this statement is correct. You can't compare a 10% moisture dry-kibble with a 50% water and deshydrated product mix. The only way to compare these product is by using straight kcal/ $$$.
> 
> Embark is 488kcal/cup and Innova EVO Turkey formula is 537kcal/cup. Like it's states on THK website "A dry-measured cup of Thrive, as-received, weighs about 115 grams." and it's about the same for all for dry-kibble.
> 
> ...


I guess I agree with your assessment of cost per kcal but that doesn't make my statement of cost per lb for myself incorrect. My cost per lb for Evo versus HK is correct so I would say that your disagreement lies with my statement that "The Honest Kitchen really isn't that expensive" which really is relative.

I agree that you may feed more with THK to achieve the same number of calories but I wasn't agruing that in the first place. And I'm not arguing with your cost analysis, but I just don't see anywhere in my post that I said something that was not factual. My cost per lb is my cost per lb regardless of the number of calories in each pound. 

And really I don't pay any more to feed THK than I did to feed Evo. And oh how I wish I was one of those "rich folks" but I'm not and I can easily afford to feed THK to my 3 dogs (1 large and 2 small).


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## johndh1 (May 21, 2010)

Don't get me wrong, I didn't say that your comparison is false. You truly get the same lb/$ with The Honest Kitchen.

It's the way you compare them that isn't fair. Adding the 1:1 water ratio in the weight/$ equation can be misleading because the 43lb you get by mixing it with water is not equivalent in calorie to a same weight of dry kibble. I just don't want people to get mislead. 

Like I said, I think THK is a great alternative because of the way it has been process and maybe the greater bioavailability of this of kind process makes it more nourishing than a higher calorie food. So I'm not arguing about if THK is a better way to feed our dogs, but I don't see how you can feed your three boys with the same budget.


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## Huskyluv (Jun 25, 2010)

I do get your point and you are right, it's not an apples to apples comparison. But by the same token you could say that for different quality kibbles, they all have different kcal/cup ratios. 

I do agree with you that THK can be expensive but I personally don't find it any more expensive to feed my dogs than Evo. While I do feed a mix of THK and raw or cooked meats I still find that the amount I spend monthly to feed my dogs is either the same or slightly less since feeding THK than my monthly expenditure when I fed premium kibble.

Thank you John for bringing another side of the equation to light for people to consider. :smile:


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## johndh1 (May 21, 2010)

Haha you're welcome, and the raw feeding factor explain a lot why your budget is not really affected. Solutions like Preference seems to make semi-RAW feeding so much simple and safer that I will certainly be tempt one day.


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## flippedstars (May 22, 2010)

For me, I've figured it's about twice as expensive to feed. I was spending SO little for kibble, though, because my dogs are small, that feeding them something twice as expensive isn't a big deal. It used to cost me around $25 a month to feed them, now its costing around $50. Considering that I've got 4 dogs I don't think that's too bad, and they are so much healthier on this stuff. This is bearing in mind, I never bought giant bags of kibble, so I was paying more for kibble, and I buy the bigger versions of THK so that helps bridge some of the discrepancy.


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