# Raw Questions (and answers)



## PunkyPug (Apr 4, 2012)

So Emma has itches. She has had them since the 1st day we found her.

For feeding RAW, is it JUST meat?
Now veggies or anything?
How do you determine how much your dog should get per meal?


I may get more questions arising. Anyone else with questions can post theirs as well


----------



## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

Some feed PMRaw which is meat/bones/organs only. Some feed veggies as well. It all depends on what works for your dog.

I believe that dogs do not have the digestive tract of a herbivore and therefore do not have a use for vegetables or fruits. 

The general guideline for feeding PMR is 2-3% of their body weight. Some dogs with high metabolisms need more, some need less. It is a starting point to figure out what your dog needs.


----------



## lovemydogsalways (Mar 4, 2012)

Here is a great link and I agree with Sprocket!
How to Get Started | Prey Model Raw
I have not started feeding raw yet but plan to in May after our move.


----------



## creek817 (Feb 18, 2012)

Just meat, meat, and more meat! And bones and organs. 80% meat, 10% bone, 10% organs - over time, long term. Wait awhile to intro organs, and you'll probably want to be more bone heavy in the beginning, but eventually, you're aiming for aroun 80-10-10 (or whatever works best for your dog, they're all different!)

For itchiness, You can also try Raw Unfiltered Organic Apple Cider Vinegar, Coconut Oil, and/or Salmon Oil. Hopefully the raw diet in itself will fix her itching though! 

Good luck! You will get some great advice on this forum =)


----------



## PunkyPug (Apr 4, 2012)

Bones too!?!?
Emma inhales everything. She doesn't chew. And even if she did, I'd be worried these bones would splinter.


Side note: anyone else having issues replying or editing? The typing part doesn't load for me. It stays greyed out.


----------



## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

PunkyPug said:


> Bones too!!
> Emma inhales everything. She doesn't chew. And even if she did, I'd be worried these bones would splinter.


that's the best question you can ask....love your pug's outfit...

when you first start out, many of us recommend starting with chicken which has a porous and softer bone.....it allows your pug to gulp and hork it back up and eat it again so she can learn how to eat...

she can just as easily inhale kibble and choke.....probably has a better chance of choking on kibble, especially pugs who live to eat....

two years later, my pug still eats fast....but he no longer chokes....and has graduated to harder bones, like lamb and pork and emu and rabbit and even rabbit heads....

their teeth and gums start out a little weak and as time goes by, their teeth, mouth, gums, necks, jaws get stronger and stronger....

in the beginning, you may even see shards of bone in her poo. it's normal.....her entire digestive system is going to change to accomodate a species appropriate diet.


----------



## Makovach (Jan 24, 2012)

Yes, they need the bones too. Bones provide calcium and phosphorus. 

Bones splinter when cooked/heated. Raw bones do not. They break into chunks. I'll let Annie munch down on her chicken quarter tonight and then post a picture so you can see what I mean. 

Make sure you feed pieces large enough that she will have to chew. If she doesn't want to chew it, hold the end. You can even feed it frozen as it is harder to swallow whole.


----------



## PunkyPug (Apr 4, 2012)

So onto making the change to raw meat.....
im assuming the meat doesn't get cooked

do you slowly make the change? 
mix it in with the kibbles?

onto changing meats
do you slowly change over or just plop give em all different meat?
is it wise to chop everything into small pieces or leave it in chucks?


----------



## PunkyPug (Apr 4, 2012)

Makovach said:


> Yes, they need the bones too. Bones provide calcium and phosphorus.
> 
> Bones splinter when cooked/heated. Raw bones do not. They break into chunks. I'll let Annie munch down on her chicken quarter tonight and then post a picture so you can see what I mean.
> 
> Make sure you feed pieces large enough that she will have to chew. If she doesn't want to chew it, hold the end. You can even feed it frozen as it is harder to swallow whole.


so I'm assuming bowls arn't used for meals. You just had them a quarter n let em chew n chew?


----------



## Makovach (Jan 24, 2012)

PunkyPug said:


> So onto making the change to raw meat.....
> im assuming the meat doesn't get cooked
> 
> do you slowly make the change?
> ...


I believe a 100% switch is best. I fasted my dogs for 24 hours before making the switch to get all the kibble out. 

The meat/bone/organ is all fed raw when feeding prey model raw. Nothing is cooked. 

I wouldn't recommend feeding raw and kibble. Raw digests much faster than kibble and cause digestive upset. 

You want to start with bone heavy pieces like backs, necks, wings. You want to leave it in chunks. This will minimize the chance of choking It will also add the benefit of healthy gums and teeth because they have to chew/tear the meat/bones. It also helps to strengthen their jaws, teeth and neck.


----------



## PunkyPug (Apr 4, 2012)

Do any of you live in apartments??!??!?

If so, how do you manage to share your freezer with your dog?


----------



## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

it depends on what i'm feeding....if i add in some chicken broth, i use a bowl, especially since i'm also giving my pug apple cider vinegar.

if i am feeding a bony meal, no bowl is necessary.

you are correct. the meat is not cooked at all.....just plain old raw chicken to start and then very slowly start the progression to other proteins, allowing plenty of time for emma to adjust to each one.

we also trained our dogs to eat on a towel....it's very easy, really....it just doesn't seem that way in the beginning.

how much does emma weigh? the rule of thumb is 2% of their body weight..sometimes 3%...but when starting out, i think feeding less is better...
1.5% is what i would start...and that's 1.5% of her ideal weight.

and you fast for 12 hours and then throw the kibble away and go right to raw.


----------



## Makovach (Jan 24, 2012)

PunkyPug said:


> so I'm assuming bowls arn't used for meals. You just had them a quarter n let em chew n chew?


Tucker eats in his kennel because he wont keep it on his blanket. Annie eats on a towel in the kitchen  I only use a bowl for salmon/coconut oils or eggs.


----------



## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

i live in an apartment....my dogs own my freezer, plus i have a garage where i have two freezers.

if i didn't have a garage, i'd have a freezer in my closet or it would be in my kitchen, just for my dogs.

some people have tiny freezers and they just shop more often. emma is not going to be eating very much in a day...most likely about 6 ounces or so...i'm just guessing, so think how far a whole chicken would go.


----------



## Makovach (Jan 24, 2012)

PunkyPug said:


> Do any of you live in apartments??!??!?
> 
> If so, how do you manage to share your freezer with your dog?


I live in a studio apartment. I have two dogs that eat roughly 3.5-4lbs a day. The freezer is full of dog food. Our food gets shoved in where it fits lol. We are getting a deep freezer and will be keeping it in the living room


----------



## meggels (May 30, 2010)

Your pug is SO cute!!!!

I fed my french bulldog PMR style, and he did take some adjusting in terms of learning to chew, horking it up, eating it again...sometimes he would need to hork it up and re-eat it 2-3 times before it finally stayed down lol.

Right now he gets premade raw with recreational raw meaty bones. He's doing really well and I prefer this method personally. He gets Northwest Naturals which is 84% meat, bone, organ and then the rest is fruit veggies. He gets Vital Essentials which is 99% meat, bone, organ, then 1% kelp. He also gets a little Primal, Bravo or Nature's Variety for protein variety, but I prefer NW Naturals and Vital Essentials the most. He gets chicken, beef, salmon, sardine, turkey, bison, lamb, venison. When I start a new protein, I usually just give him a full meal of that. I rotate proteins having 2 at a time, so he'll get typically one protein in the AM and a different one in the PM.


----------



## PunkyPug (Apr 4, 2012)

magicre said:


> it depends on what i'm feeding....if i add in some chicken broth, i use a bowl, especially since i'm also giving my pug apple cider vinegar.
> 
> if i am feeding a bony meal, no bowl is necessary.
> 
> ...


Emma weighs anywhere from 16.5-18lbs (depending on her activity level)
It may drop back down to 16.5lbs since I've taken up exercising again xD


----------



## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

so emma would be eating approximately 4 ounces per day to start...only increasing as she gets used to raw.

so you should have little trouble keeping food for her. 

if she exercises a lot, then her percentage of food will go up..

my pug exercises every day and he eats 5.75 ounces per day. we think he weighs about 22 pounds.


----------



## PunkyPug (Apr 4, 2012)

Don't think hubs will be happy to see our new bigger freezer( in our new bigger apartment) being taken over with raw meat FOR the dog.

Not the mention the whole fridge will be shared with husbands brother as well. We're helping him move out and get on his feet.


----------



## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

when hubs sees no vet bills, hubs will be thrilled and brother will be gone.


----------



## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

Great advice from Re(and some others!:tongue: JK) so far on feeding your puggie. 

As said, nothing is cooked. Raw meat, raw bones and raw organs. I feed all 5 of my dogs and both cats prey model raw, including my pug/x Brody...they all do amazing on it...and Brody has never been happier!!:thumb:

If I was only feeding Brody I would be in heaven, 6-7oz a day....and only one dog's food in my freezer with ours?!? Oh heck ya!!LOL. As it is my husband and I(who live in a small house with no garage) have a fridge/freezer that we "share" with the animals, and then they also have a full sized stand up freezer!:wink:

Prey model is by far the easiest method of raw because of it "only" being meat/bone/organs(around 80/10/10). I find it to feed exactly what my pet carnivores need....and will never go back to processed foods!!:thumb:

Like Re already said our Pugs will all(and have) gulped/horked/gulp/hork...then if your lucky a crunch or two and then gulp again!!LOL (For Brody it took a few times of horking 3-4 times for him to "get it" about crunching once or twice!!LOL)

I feed Brody about 50% of the time in the kitchen, then just let him clean up after him self...the other 50% of the time he is fed in his crate(which is comfortably about 2sizes "too big", this giving him more then enough room to eat...and be passionate about it in Pug style!Lol). He also fully cleans out his crate...I've never once HAD to clean it out since starting raw last May!!LOL


EDIT TO ADD:
My Mum feeds 4 adults(including 2 men, my dad and brother, who eat a bunch each) from their standard fridge/freezer and a TINY(think dorm room fridge) freezer. Oh ya, and she also feeds 2 dogs and 1 cat PMR(for a total of 1.5lbs/day), and one dog homemade fridge/freezer needed food!!:thumb:
So needless to say, I do believe that that the need for space can easily be overridden!:tongue1:


----------



## Makovach (Jan 24, 2012)

PunkyPug said:


> Don't think hubs will be happy to see our new bigger freezer( in our new bigger apartment) being taken over with raw meat FOR the dog.
> 
> Not the mention the whole fridge will be shared with husbands brother as well. We're helping him move out and get on his feet.


4-6oz is not much at all. You can shop frequently for her. Just because you feed raw wouldn't mean you have to keep 200lbs in stock. I keep on average 50lbs in my freezer, and I'm feeding dogs that eat 3.5-4lbs a day total. With her eating 4-6oz a day, you would be able to buy a whole chicken and it would last her a while. Maybe keep 10-15lbs on hand if you want. It really wont take up much space in your freezer  I promise. 

as for your question about bones splintering, 
Here is a whole leg bone (I let Annie clean it off for case of the pictures, its not recommended to feed small bones with out meat surrounding them.)









This is what it looked like after she bit it in half.








No splinters  Some times they will break into smaller pieces, but it is more like a chunk of bone. Nothing like a splinter.


----------



## PunkyPug (Apr 4, 2012)

So where do you buy your dog's meat?
I assuming walmart will be a no no place?


----------



## Makovach (Jan 24, 2012)

PunkyPug said:


> So where do you buy your dog's meat?
> I assuming walmart will be a no no place?


I buy some things at walmart. You want to read you packaging. If it has over 100mg sodium its too enhanced. You want to stay with the lowest sodium. I know they sell perdue brand chicken (its not enhanced). Most of their Tyson chicken is enhanced. Some of it is not tho. I'm buying pork shoulder roast/rump roast, beef brisket and occasionally some ribs there. They tend not to be enhanced, just make sure to check your package before you buy. Depending on which chicken quarters you get, they may not be enhanced. I also call butcher shops and see what they have that I can get. Right now I'm getting my stuff from about 4 different sources. A butcher shop would probably be your best bet for chicken necks/backs.


----------



## PunkyPug (Apr 4, 2012)

Should the weight of the meal include the bone as well? Or just the meat?


----------



## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

PunkyPug said:


> So where do you buy your dog's meat?
> I assuming walmart will be a no no place?


I have in the past bought chicken at Walmart, if I can find the brand that has no enhancement(added sodium, check this by making sure that the sodium isnt more then 100mg per 4ounces.)
I have bought at all of my local grocery stores(again checking sodium levels) but now with feeding 7 I mostly buy from either our raw feeding co-op, or a local whole seller, who sells mostly to restaurants and such. 

However if I was just feeding one I would probably be buying most of their meats from the grocery store, butchers, and be looking for local farmers/ranchers/etc who could give me really good meats(which I do currently!:wink. We have many members, my self included, who have posted added(craigslist and the like) and have received many great numbers of meat...just from people cleaning out their freezers and not needing some perfectly great meat!:wink:


----------



## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

PunkyPug said:


> Should the weight of the meal include the bone as well? Or just the meat?


Yes, she will be eating the bone, so you will weigh the whole thing. Don't take it apart at all....that takes away what is good for her, and also would/will aid in her gulping!:wink: The larger the chunk you can offer the better!!:biggrin:


----------



## meggels (May 30, 2010)

When I did PMR, I bought just from the regular grocery store (Stop & Shop). Every week they had some sort of special on chicken, whether it was thighs, drumsticks or wings. 

I actually have a few lbs of thighs in my freezer I really need to thaw for him....


Craigslist has been very very great for many people, I only had one successful (sort of) story. I posted an ad looking for cheap or unwanted meat, and got an email from a very nice lady who raised rabbies for her own family's consumption. She was offering me heads and innards when she was done butchering.


----------



## frogdog (Aug 10, 2011)

PunkyPug...where are you located...we may be able to help you more with resources or you may be located in an area with other members?

By the way...love the name.


----------



## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

PunkyPug said:


> Bones too!?!?
> Emma inhales everything. She doesn't chew. And even if she did, I'd be worried these bones would splinter.


I have a gulper too except he is 61 lbs and still growing. Dogs don't actually need to chew. They just need to be able to get it down their throats. Now, that doesn't mean they always make the best decision and will occasionally try to swallow a chunk that is too big... On those occasions they typically just hork it back up, give it another crunch or two and back down the gullet it goes. Emma will likely chew a raw meal better than she would a kibble meal. Kibble is already small enough to swallow easily. 

Yes, you must feed bones too. The scariest part of transitioning to raw is handing them that first bony hunk of chicken... But you quickly get over it. Without bones you are in for some major cannon butt. The bone, in addition to helping balance out the diet, is what helps keep the stool from being too runny or too hard. Too much bone with give you dry, dusty (literally) poo while too little bone gives you loose stool. It is an art, balancing out the poo consistency, that many of us take pride in. Hahahaha. What's great is that, if you feed too much one one day you can fix it with a boneless meal the next and vice versa. 

Definitely use the link that someone gave you a few posts ago. Most of us here feed PMR (Prey Model Raw) and feed no veggies, grains, fruits, or dairy. Just meat, bones, and organ. If you do feel that PMR is what you want to do then that link is great. I used it to switch my guys, Buck, a 12 month old, 61 (and still growing)lb bluetick coonhound and Dude, an 8 year old, 61 lb, smooth collie and the day I switched over Buck was only 8 weeks old! We had almost no issues. Dude had a few days of cannon butt but he is my more sensitive dog. Buck, my iron gut, had no issues whatsoever!

And us poor folks buy Walmart meat on a regular basis. We, too, just make sure we are buying unenhanced chicken.


----------



## bridget246 (Oct 26, 2011)

Wal Mart is probably the best grocery store I've been to in Columbus for raw meat. I can't find anything for myself that is even remotely good but they somehow got the meat part right? 

So here is my secret to feeding meat on a budget. When you go into your favorite store look at the sale by date. If you come in on the day before that ends it is usually discounted a fair amount. I the dates memorized so I can pick up some good deals on meat.

Scarlett, your mom is going to have to come by and show me how she does it with freezer space. I'm having a hard time managing it.


----------



## creek817 (Feb 18, 2012)

PunkyPug said:


> so I'm assuming bowls arn't used for meals. You just had them a quarter n let em chew n chew?


I usually feed Dobby in a bowl, because of his supplements, and because he usually gets a few things in each meal (for example, a chicken neck, a piece of beef heart, an egg, etc.), but he always pulls the big chunks out of his bowl to eat them. That's why I started feeding him in a crate - even though he was eating outside, the whole verandah smelles like rotten meat! haha


----------



## Maligatork9 (Feb 8, 2012)

If you haven't read this link : How to Get Started | Prey Model Raw i would HIGHLY recommend it. I saw someone post it earlier. When I switched, I read ths about three times, printed it out and followed it STEP BY STEP. No short cuts and no trying to move along faster. If your dog is transitioning well, you may want to speed up the process a bit... DON'T. I have read where people go too fast and their dogs aren't ready yet. Not once did my dog so much has have a stomach ache, let alone the dreaded "cannon butt". I may have been lucky, but her transition went amazingly smooth. 

That is a great link and should answer a bunch of your questions. You have a great network of people on here that will calm you down if (I should say when) you get nervous or have a freak out session over something like seeing bone in the stool (totally normal) or puke with bones in it (again, totally normal).


----------



## BrittanyM (Jan 28, 2012)

PunkyPug said:


> Do any of you live in apartments??!??!?
> 
> If so, how do you manage to share your freezer with your dog?


I live in a apartment and my freezer is getting packed with all my prepared raw meals for the puppies. I'm hoping this week to get 3.5 cubic foot freezer, it's small enough to not take so much space and big enough to store the meat in.


----------



## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

I live in an apartment as well. Again, we have to 61 lb dogs with one still growing. We don't have an extra freezer although we would love one. We just don't share the freezer. Well, we can fit MAYBE one or two things in there for ourselves! Hahaha. We can actually fit 60+ lbs of meat into our freezer. It isn't a big freezer either. It's just making sure you shove everything in there when it's thawed so it can squish against the other stuff in there and fill up all of the space.


----------



## PunkyPug (Apr 4, 2012)

TYVM for all the helpful information.

I brought up the subject of switching Emma to PMR to husband and he didnt want to make the change.
Mainly because he finally got our expenses together and in order to know what is going to get spent and how much. I understand where he is coming from. But maybe after we move and I find out it will save us more money I can get him to want to make the change


----------



## Makovach (Jan 24, 2012)

As far as the itches, If you cant feed PMR, Maybe you should post a new thread in the kibble section asking for help in that department?

Maybe some day you will convince him


----------



## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

I agree fully with Melissa....and also, depending on what you feed Emma there is a VERY good chance you could SAVE money on raw!:thumb:


----------



## PunkyPug (Apr 4, 2012)

Emma is fed Blue Buffalo. a 15lb bag lasts us 3 months.


----------



## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

PunkyPug said:


> Emma is fed Blue Buffalo. a 15lb bag lasts us 3 months.


Hmm....I've never had good experience with Blue...so wouldn't be surprised if that was one of her problems(that raw of course could fix. But if not raw yet, then I would suggest starting a thread in the kibble/canned area for us to help you that way as well!:wink


----------



## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

PunkyPug said:


> TYVM for all the helpful information.
> 
> I brought up the subject of switching Emma to PMR to husband and he didnt want to make the change.
> Mainly because he finally got our expenses together and in order to know what is going to get spent and how much. I understand where he is coming from. But maybe after we move and I find out it will save us more money I can get him to want to make the change


You/he should also consider vet bills, and the well being of Emma. No one likes to itch constantly. If Emma is allergic to her food switching could actually save you a bunch of money. And Emma not itching? Wouldn't that be priceless?


----------



## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

We were looking at switching to Blue Buffalo last year as well but when we worked out all of the prices we found out that we are saving a TON of money by feeding raw. Feeding kibble would cost us a fortune. Per month we feed approximately 124 lbs of meat between the two dogs and we never spend even close to $124. We never spend the same amount every month because we stock up when we find sales but we sometimes go an entire month without having to buy any food for them at all because we have enough in the freezer. Feeding a small dog you could probably manage to buy food every two months if you get a system down for the freezer. BECAUSE you wouldn't be feeding very much you would only need a small space in the freezer if you bought a two weeks supply twice a month.

Feeding kibble would cost us between 2-3x as much as we spend now. And believe me, we know financial crunch. We are a military family. We have very little extra to spend on anything unnecessary. I can't imagine what kind of bind we would be in if we fed kibble.


----------



## PunkyPug (Apr 4, 2012)

What pieces would be best for her?
Drumsticks? Thighs? Wings? etc


----------



## Makovach (Jan 24, 2012)

PunkyPug said:


> What pieces would be best for her?
> Drumsticks? Thighs? Wings? etc


If you started Emma on raw you would want to start her on boney pieces of chicken such as wings and necks until she was getting used to it. Eventually you can fed the whole chicken (per serving, which would last you some time)


----------



## PunkyPug (Apr 4, 2012)

Makovach said:


> If you started Emma on raw you would want to start her on boney pieces of chicken such as wings and necks until she was getting used to it. Eventually you can fed the whole chicken (per serving, which would last you some time)


A WHOLE chicken?! Like a 8-10lb chicken to a 18lbs pug? 

Has anyone fed cornish hens?


----------



## Makovach (Jan 24, 2012)

PunkyPug said:


> A WHOLE chicken?! Like a 8-10lb chicken to a 18lbs pug?
> 
> Has anyone fed cornish hens?


No, like a whole chicken, and feed it whole (in due time) only giving her a serving. You cut it up into portions for her. 

I feed my boxers cornish game hens. They love them. They are about 1lb and serve as a meal for my dogs. The bones are softer than regular chicken bones.


----------



## PunkyPug (Apr 4, 2012)

Makovach said:


> No, like a whole chicken, and feed it whole (in due time) only giving her a serving. You cut it up into portions for her.
> 
> I feed my boxers cornish game hens. They love them. They are about 1lb and serve as a meal for my dogs. The bones are softer than regular chicken bones.


so say, half a cornish hen would be a good meal for her?


----------



## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

PunkyPug said:


> so say, half a cornish hen would be a good meal for her?


Possibly, the only pugs I know who are on PMR only get 6oz, they are a healthy 17lba(my Brody) and 20lbs(Re's Bubba)....I wouldn't start her on any more then 6oz, I would probably actually start her on 5oz and go from there!:wink:


----------



## PunkyPug (Apr 4, 2012)

Scarlett_O' said:


> Possibly, the only pugs I know who are on PMR only get 6oz, they are a healthy 17lba(my Brody) and 20lbs(Re's Bubba)....I wouldn't start her on any more then 6oz, I would probably actually start her on 5oz and go from there!:wink:


agreed
was just getting a general idea:wink:


----------



## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

PunkyPug said:


> What pieces would be best for her?
> Drumsticks? Thighs? Wings? etc


Backs. Based on her weight, about four oz a day.


----------

