# What do you think of Wysong's new 'starch free' kibble?



## bdb5853 (May 21, 2010)

Wysong has a new kibble out. Epigen. It's 60% meat protein.

Wysong Epigen - Starch Free Pet Food, Dog Food, Cat Food

Ingredients: Organic Chicken, Chicken Meal, Chicken Giblets, Vegetable Protein (consisting of one or more of the following: Potato Protein, Rice Protein, Corn Protein, Wheat Protein), Poultry Fat (preserved with mixed Tocopherols as a source of Vitamin E), Eggs, Yogurt, Flax Seed, Apple, Beet Pulp, Plums, Inulin, Dried Wheat Grass Powder, Dried Barley Grass Powder, Krill Oil, Dried Kelp, Taurine, Oregano Extract, Sage Extract, Rosemary Extract, Direct-Fed Microorganisms (Bacillus subtilis, Enterococcus faecium, Lactobacillus plantarum, Lactococcus lactis, Lactobacillus casei, Lactobacillus acidophilus, Lactobacillus lactis), Ascorbic Acid, Zinc Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin Supplement, Manganese Proteinate, Calcium Pantothenate, Thiamine Mononitrate, Copper Proteinate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin Supplement, Vitamin A Acetate, Folic Acid, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement.* (For an explanation of Epigen's™ ingredients see below.)

Thoughts?


----------



## ziggy29 (Feb 1, 2010)

We had a discussion about that food here:

http://dogfoodchat.com/forum/dry-canned-dog-food/3191-new-dog-food-coming-out.html


----------



## harrkim120 (Feb 2, 2010)

I really don't think that much protein can be good for them. I highly doubt that my raw fed dogs get that much protein and all they eat is meat. LOL This is processed protein with the water removed...it's more concentrated. I'm all for more protein, but this just seems excessive.


----------



## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Feeding raw is ~20-25% protein. That seems like an overabundance of protein, which a good majority of it comes from plant protein.


----------



## buddy97 (Mar 29, 2010)

danemama08 said:


> Feeding raw is ~20-25% protein. That seems like an overabundance of protein, which a good majority of it comes from plant protein.


ive seen raw feeders calculate raw to be close to twice that high in protein % on a dry matter basis.


----------



## chowder (Sep 7, 2008)

I can't figure out why you would want to give them corn and wheat proteins? They are also coming out with other versions that won't have the corn and wheat in them, but they aren't available yet. Those versions will just have potato and pea proteins. It really sounds like marketing ploy to me.


----------



## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

buddy97 said:


> ive seen raw feeders calculate raw to be close to twice that high in protein % on a dry matter basis.


Maybe so, but what were they feeding? Dehydrated raw? Typically raw meats will only be ~20-25% protein because of the water content, but if dehydrated the protein content increases just because the water is gone.

Comparison of raw chicken (meat only) versus dehydrated chicken:

Raw:



> Chicken, broilers or fryers, breast, meat only, raw
> 
> New Search
> Refuse: 35% (20% bone, 9% skin, 6% separable fat)
> ...


http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/cgi-bin/list_nut_edit.pl

Dehydrated (chicken jerky):

100% Real Chicken Breast Meat NUTRITIONAL INFORMATION: *Crude Protein (Min.)...65.0%,* Crude Fat (Min.)...1.5%, Crude Fat (Max.)...3.5%, Crude Fiber (Max.)...1.0%, Moisture (Max.)... 14.0% NO Melamine NO Wheat Gluten NO Salmonella NO Artificial Colors NO Bacteria NO Pesticides NO By-products NO Fillers NO Hormones Free Range

Amazon.com: Chicken Jerky-Kingdom Pets Healthy Dog Treats, 3lbs: Kitchen &&#133;


----------



## buddy97 (Mar 29, 2010)

danemama08 said:


> Maybe so, but what were they feeding? Dehydrated raw? Typically raw meats will only be ~20-25% protein because of the water content, but if dehydrated the protein content increases just because the water is gone.url]


im talking about raw feeders feeding fresh meats, raw meaty bones, and organs. this still needs to be converted to a dry matter basis to compare it to a kibble or dehydrated product. a raw fed dog will drink less water than a kibble fed dog as they are already getting more water naturally in their diet.

im just saying the protein percentages arent 20-25% for raw vs 60% for the wysong kibble. you have to equalize the water content to get an accurate comparison. if they are both converted to a dry matter basis they are going to be closer to each other.

nevertheless, i agree 60% seems a bit overdone.


----------



## 1605 (May 27, 2009)

bdb5853 said:


> Wysong has a new kibble out. Epigen. It's 60% meat protein.
> 
> Wysong Epigen - Starch Free Pet Food, Dog Food, Cat Food
> 
> ...


It doesn't look too bad, but I'm not a fan of beet pulp in dog food. It's there to artificially harden stools when you use a lot of non-meat proteins.


----------



## littlemary (Jun 24, 2010)

*Definitely not for me!!*

I would say a definite no to this food!! Grains are not necessary in dog food, they are used as fillers and to bump up the other ingredients on the list. Grains cause problems not because of the starch, but because of the gluten in wheat, rye, barley, and oats. Just like humans, dogs can be gluten-sensitive, or even full-blown celiacs. I should know, my little Jack Russell Terrier is a celiac. She cannot tolerate any gluten, so we always go grain-free, even with treats. Left untreated, the gluten can cause permanent damage to the intestines. If any dogs out there are experiencing chronic diarrhea or even vomiting, you may want to go grain-free, but removing the starch has nothing to do with anything. This dog food is probably ridiculously over-priced, and would be like poison to a gluten-sensitive dog.

By the way, Wysong is now trying to discredit freeze-dried raw dog food, saying their TNT (true non-thermal) procedure is better. I wouldn't trust this company as far as I could throw them!!


----------



## GermanSheperdlover (Nov 15, 2009)

bdb5853 said:


> Wysong has a new kibble out. Epigen. It's 60% meat protein.
> 
> Wysong Epigen - Starch Free Pet Food, Dog Food, Cat Food
> 
> ...


 Look a little closer

Potato Protein, Rice Protein, Corn Protein, Wheat Protein-What is this?
Poultry Fat, it isn't that good..
Beet pulp. say what?
Plums, I guess this why they have Beet pulp...
Dried Wheat Grass Powder, I am not feeding wheat!!!
Dried Barley Grass Powder, Hello!
Oregano Extract, HUH!!!
Sage Extract, What would U call this??

I'll stick with Orijen or one of the other products I like...


----------

