# Watch Cesar Millan being attacked with hard hitting questions



## DaViking

British TV personality Alan Titchmarsh isn't beating around the bush exactly, no pun intended. Wonder if fellow brit Dr Ian Dunbar slipped Mr Titchmarsh a few pointers.


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## naturalfeddogs

Wow. Just, wow. How can ANYONE agree with his methods? He pretty much admitted to hitting dogs. Like I said, wow.


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## sozzle

Good old Alan Titchmarsh. He's always been a gardening guru and I didn't know he had his own TV programme (been a long time since I lived in UK). He was really good. But I don't think Cesar will change his training methods.


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## wolfsnaps88

I wasn't going to resppond to this as it is another Cesar Milan thread but I can't help myself. I believe there is a time when his methods are acceptable. I don't think every dog needs corrections the way he performs them but I think they do work and it does make sense. 
I agree with Cesar that your energy will affect your dogs. I agree that excerise is key. I don't think throwing treats at a dog is the only way to communicate with them. Some severe circumstances call for more than bits of cheese.
I use a prong collar. I do not think it is barbaric like the host implied. I put it on myself to make sure of it. It is a tool and like any tool, can be dangerous in the wrong hands. 
I think CM was caught off guard at the hosts attack of his methods. So he did kind of avoid directly answering some questions. 
I do think that the general public should not copy his training methods though without realizing how damaging they can be. Yes he has a tv show, but so what? I also watch a show called 'worlds dumbest criminals'. That doesn't mean I am going to do what those people do.
Anyways, I think I contributed plenty todebate about lol.


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## meggels

I don't think all training tools are bad, as I honestly don't have a problem with a properly used prong collar.

But I think hitting and kicking dogs, and often like he does, putting them way past their threshold and causing them to lash out and then be punished for it (as in, when he gets bitten by dogs) is awful.


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## DaViking

@wolfsnapp88; To me it is not a question about some of his methods work or not, some of them do work, it doesn't mean you should use them. To me it's the sum of his (and others) methods that are unwanted. I call it "careful what you wish for training" Why? Because the sum of this kind of negative training can alter the mind of a perfectly happy healthy dog and make it into a passive prop that just hangs around, looking for your every move wondering if he/she is ok doing what he/she is doing. No amount of rollerblading will make up for that. Once that is done it's back to being passive again. I am not saying you can't pop the leash, not saying you can't display negative human emotions in certain situations. We all do that and it won't hurt your relationship. It's the sum of what Cesar Millan represent that is negative and for individual exercises he "prescribe" there is always a better positive way.

You wont copy worlds dumbest criminals because you are not a criminal nor do you live with one. Ppl live with their dogs so many will copy him blindly. The power of TV is tremendous.


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## lauren43

OMG I love watch Cesar Milan shake in his boots!

@Daviking- I could not have worded it better myself. Just because something works doesn't mean you should use it. Hey smokers claim cigarettes calm their nerves but its not like smoking doesn't come with consequences.

@Wolfsnaps- I will say that I personally and not a fan of prongs, chokes, or electric collars, nor do I like walking my dog on a flat collar. That being said they do work for "some" dogs. I problem I have with them is that anyone can use one. And there are many many many dogs that should never be on one. Prongs can break a fearful dog. And can cause "side effects" in any dog, depending on that dogs personality. I have heard many trainers voice their concerns about prongs causing negative reactions. For example, you have a well rounded dog that loves all people and other dogs, but he pulls like a maniac on leash, so you resort to a prong. Now if placed on the dog without warning or practice, every time that dog runs to the end of the leash he feels pain in his neck pain like he's never felt before. This pain is the worst when greeting another dog or person (because he's still pulling on the end of the leash)...some dogs will make associations, and not the right ones..I go towards a person/dog I feel pain and so they start reacting before that dog or person is near by barking/growling, long before that person/dog is too close to "hurt" them.

I have a reactive dog. And I do somewhat blame one of the training classes we went to when he was younger, and no a prong was not involved. But something as simple as training methods can do more harm then good. Take everything you hear with a grain of salt.


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## Kat

I've not liked Cesar Milan since he told a pug and bulldog owner to tire their dogs out in the heat before getting them to calm down and start the training.


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## CorgiPaws

I don't LIKE prong collars.
I don't LIKE shock collars.
I HATE choke collars.
And I do NOT believe in hitting and kicking dogs for punishment.
And I do NOT believe in flooding. 

I wouldn't hate Cesar Milan for just the tools he uses. I mean, I don't LIKE them, and I don't use them, but that in and of itself is not reason to completely boycott him. What I have a HUGE problem with is is flooding tactics, the way he pushes dogs to their complete limit, and then literally beats them into submission. I know there are better, less damaging, safer ways to train a dog and I think what he does is so unfair and confusing to the animal. If he wants dogs to listen to him, he needs to get a lot better at listening to their ques as well. I HAVE trained a reactive, male-aggressive dog, without ever striking him. I DO use a lot of positive reinforcement when training, but it's not treat after treat after treat.


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## Tobi

"we've never had so many complaints about a guest" :lol: and... that made the show for me.


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## zontee

i think firm but fair.
if they dont know it teach it.
if they know it expect it.
dogs understand correction and it is a useful tool if used correctly.


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## Tracy

zontee said:


> i think firm but fair.
> if they dont know it teach it.
> if they know it expect it.
> dogs understand correction and it is a useful tool if used correctly.



I don't think because a dog knows something you should always expect it. This is where badly run training classes or unqualified 'dog trainers', screw up perfectly normal happy dogs. 

My collie is very good at obedience, he generally does everything I ask, and is a pleasure to be around. At one of his training sessions, I asked him to lie down next to a little black terrier. He lay down to start with, then got up and kept looking at the little dog. I knew, 'down' was something he was excellent at, so not doing what I asked meant he had a very good reason for not complying. I moved him away from the little dog and lay him down next to a female labrador. He was perfect, didn't budge. I have no idea why he didn't want to lie down next to that dog, but I have enough experience to know that getting on his case about it would only make him more worried and would certainly not make him feel any better about that little dog. 

Dogs are very much like us with emotion. When dogs are worried, scared, have raging hormones, hyper excited, stressed, whatever, they really struggle to perform basic tasks which they know well. We are exactly the same, if we get very stressed, (hormones kick in), behaviour changes and you don't perform the way you normally would.

Good dog trainers understand how dogs tick, and would never use punishment as a training tool.


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## DaViking

zontee said:


> dogs understand correction and it is a useful tool if used correctly.


Yes they understand correction but I disagree that it is a useful tool in *dog training*. Negative reinforcement correction based training is more molding than training, there is a difference. I saw the flipside of negative reinforcement training all the time when I was active as a SAR trainer. New rookie teams where the dog was (previously) subject to negative reinforcement correction based training was difficult to advance due to the dog being wary about the owners behavior and positive reinforcement was hard to get positive enough.


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## Tracy

I think some people get really hung up on postitive dog training as being wishy washy and letting the dog away with anything it wants and constantly chucking food at it. That type of training is no good either.
Of course dogs need guidence and boundaries, it's the way they're implemented that's important. Know what you want and teach it fairly and kindly. If the dog makes a mistake, in my experience it's usually handler error or the dog is acting out of instinct which the dog can't control. 

That's why I think it's so important that anyone who sets themselves up as a dog trainer/behaviourist understands completely about classical conditioning as well as operant conditioning. 

If you understand classical conditioning, you will take into account that the dog is not performing as usual because it's in pain or it's worried about the dog accross the room or it's heard the door bang and it can't concentrate because it keeps looking at the door. 

Another example might be a dog who's starting to get a bit stiff in the joints. The owner tells the dog to lie down, the dog is reluctant because he's stiff, the owner gets annoyed and thinks the dog is disobeying a command, the owner uses verbal or physical punishment to get the dog to lie down. The dog complies (of course he does). 

Well, that's my thoughts on it.hwell:


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## zontee

when i say i expect a behavior i do allow for the effect of diffrent situations and i deal with things in a way i feel is fair. but at home if i ask for a down and the dog walks away because they choose not to do as they where asked i will correct that behavior. i know lots of people dont agree with that but i feel its fair and its what works for me and my furkids.


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## Tracy

I agree, I think it's important to have boundaries and guidlines for dogs, just as for children. I just think getting very shouty or very physical with a dog for not doing what they're told is not the best way, (please don't think I'm suggesting you do).

I think dog trainers/behaviourists (especially ones on telly), have a great responsibility to help build/keep the bond between an owner and their dog.
I don't see how using punishment as a training tool could ever achieve this.


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## DaViking

sozzle said:


> Good old Alan Titchmarsh. He's always been a gardening guru and I didn't know he had his own TV programme (been a long time since I lived in UK). He was really good. But I don't think Cesar will change his training methods.


Good old days, watching Alan Titchmarsh in his wellingtons knee deep in muck


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## xchairity_casex

For some reason i always see this with everyone, negative is ALWAYS bad and POSATIVE is always good.
its not Cesar Millian fault if a moron trys to mimick his techniques.
is it jonny knoxvilles fault if some teenager puts a firecrack up his butt and lights it and gets seriously burned?
is it the duggers (from 20 somthing kids and counting) fault if someone decides THEY want 20 somthing kids even though they are on welfare?
is it burger kings fault for people getting fat eating there burgers 5 times a day?
would it be victoria stillwells fault if someone watched her show and tried giving the dog treats as praise and had there kids attacked because the dog was food aggressive?

NO, NO,NO,NO and NO, i really find it insane how people can take the blame of stupidity off themselves just by saying
"well its not MY fault, i seen someone else do it on tv!"
oh, okay then! you poor thing, its not YOUR fault you didnt litsten to the warnings, screwed it up then did damage to your dog/got bite, its the person on tvs fault! its HIS job to think FOR YOU!"


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## DaViking

xchairity_casex said:


> For some reason i always see this with everyone, negative is ALWAYS bad and POSATIVE is always good.
> its not Cesar Millian fault if a moron trys to mimick his techniques.
> is it jonny knoxvilles fault if some teenager puts a firecrack up his butt and lights it and gets seriously burned?
> is it the duggers (from 20 somthing kids and counting) fault if someone decides THEY want 20 somthing kids even though they are on welfare?
> is it burger kings fault for people getting fat eating there burgers 5 times a day?
> would it be victoria stillwells fault if someone watched her show and tried giving the dog treats as praise and had there kids attacked because the dog was food aggressive?
> 
> NO, NO,NO,NO and NO, i really find it insane how people can take the blame of stupidity off themselves just by saying
> "well its not MY fault, i seen someone else do it on tv!"
> oh, okay then! you poor thing, its not YOUR fault you didnt litsten to the warnings, screwed it up then did damage to your dog/got bite, its the person on tvs fault! its HIS job to think FOR YOU!"


I am confused. If you are not supposed to take CM serious all you are left with is entertainment. And if it is simply entertainment why defend him so rigorously?
Doesn't matter if the person trying to mimic said "rehabilitator" is a moron or not. His methods are still seriously flawed, his ability to read behavior is flawed and his philosophy is just a hodgepodge of misguided reads and techniques. No real direction or school. Good old school correction and dominance based trainers who actually have (had) control over the relationship and knew how to teach that relationship are getting few and far between. CM is not one of them. They die, retire or cross over to positive training. The case with Holly demonstrates without any doubt that CM lacks the ability to read canine behavior. No trainer worth her/his salt, old school or positive, would miss the array of signals she displayed in a desperate attempt to avoid confrontation.

Here's a good read for you, by Prescott Breeden.


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## xchairity_casex

Because people are calling him a bad guy for morons attempts at mimicking him THATS why i defend him, not to mention i LIKE some of the things he teaches. but no matter if i like him or not, blaming your own stupidity onto someone else jsut because THEY did it and you did it wrong is just plain rediculess and sickening, no wonder therye are som ny stupid people in this world, all they have to do is blame there stupidity onto others and they go off scott free with people sympathizing them, so in the end they learn not to even use commen sense or to think for themselves and become stupid.

i mean seriously, you could be BLIND while watching the dog whisper and still you would hear him say a bunch of times during the show not to try this without consulting a professional, or you could be deaf and SEE the warnings, good friggin grief, its not that difficult for people to use there brains, if they cant use there brains then they deserve to be severly bitten by there dogs for trying to alpha roll them.


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## DaViking

xchairity_casex said:


> Because people are calling him a bad guy for morons attempts at mimicking him THATS why i defend him, not to mention i LIKE some of the things he teaches. but no matter if i like him or not, blaming your own stupidity onto someone else jsut because THEY did it and you did it wrong is just plain rediculess and sickening, no wonder therye are som ny stupid people in this world, all they have to do is blame there stupidity onto others and they go off scott free with people sympathizing them, so in the end they learn not to even use commen sense or to think for themselves and become stupid.
> 
> i mean seriously, you could be BLIND while watching the dog whisper and still you would hear him say a bunch of times during the show not to try this without consulting a professional, or you could be deaf and SEE the warnings, good friggin grief, its not that difficult for people to use there brains, if they cant use there brains then they deserve to be severly bitten by there dogs for trying to alpha roll them.


The logic doesn't make any sense since highly smart and educated trainers who (god forbid) would implement his methods would fail to create balanced dogs too. That's why I call it "Careful what you wish for training" It comes at a cost. Study Junior closely and you'll get some hints about what I am talking about. The proof is in the pudding.


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## Kibblelady

naturalfeddogs said:


> Wow. Just, wow. How can ANYONE agree with his methods? He pretty much admitted to hitting dogs. Like I said, wow.


I watched it twice and saw no such thing. The host used the word "hit" but Cesar had already tried a number of times to correct him with the word "touch." I have never seen Cesar hit a dog on any program. Then the host runs with the words "hit", "spike", "shock" and "Kick" all at once and you see Cesar's frustration but it is obvious he knows he is not going to have any impact on this man. Cesar touches, he may use prong collars (these are NOT spiked and are more humane than a choke collar or nylon choke) collars give a stimulation (I have been around them and used them on myself, surprising but no, not painful or harmful) kick?? Seriously? When has he ever kicked a dog? Touching with the foot?? I have seen that, saw him do that I also have seen it at a number of ScHh competitions as a way to bring the dog's attention back or get it out of that pre-pounce stare mode.

I am continually amazed at how people will see what they want to see in any situation. Sure it can apply to me as well but I challenge anyone to show me a clip of Cesar *purposely* hitting or kicking a dog. I admit it, I love Cesar. I am very much like him with animals and am very successful in handling them as well. I am *never* abusive to an animal. Just because someone's technique is different from someone elses and they may not agree with it does not qualify it as "abusive."


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## CorgiPaws

Kibblelady said:


> I watched it twice and saw no such thing. The host used the word "hit" but Cesar had already tried a number of times to correct him with the word "touch." I have never seen Cesar hit a dog on any program. Then the host runs with the words "hit", "spike", "shock" and "Kick" all at once and you see Cesar's frustration but it is obvious he knows he is not going to have any impact on this man. Cesar touches, he may use prong collars (these are NOT spiked and are more humane than a choke collar or nylon choke) collars give a stimulation (I have been around them and used them on myself, surprising but no, not painful or harmful) kick?? Seriously? When has he ever kicked a dog? Touching with the foot?? I have seen that, saw him do that I also have seen it at a number of ScHh competitions as a way to bring the dog's attention back or get it out of that pre-pounce stare mode.
> 
> I am continually amazed at how people will see what they want to see in any situation. Sure it can apply to me as well but I challenge anyone to show me a clip of Cesar *purposely* hitting or kicking a dog. I admit it, I love Cesar. I am very much like him with animals and am very successful in handling them as well. I am *never* abusive to an animal. Just because someone's technique is different from someone elses and they may not agree with it does not qualify it as "abusive."


...remind me to never let you near my animals.


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## GoingPostal

Kibblelady said:


> When has he ever kicked a dog? Touching with the foot??
> 
> I am continually amazed at how people will see what they want to see in any situation. Sure it can apply to me as well but I challenge anyone to show me a clip of Cesar *purposely* hitting or kicking a dog. I admit it, I love Cesar



I always think it's interesting that people say the kicks or hits (sorry, touches, that sounds nice doesn't it?) couldn't possibly hurt or be abuse. Watch the dogs. How do they feel about it? 

Cesar kicking dogs (Abuse).mp4 - YouTube


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## Kibblelady

CorgiPaws said:


> ...remind me to never let you near my animals.


Wow that was insulting, you do not even know me. Lol so now I am abusive as well?? lol My point proven, thanks.


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## Kibblelady

GoingPostal said:


> I always think it's interesting that people say the kicks or hits (sorry, touches, that sounds nice doesn't it?) couldn't possibly hurt or be abuse. Watch the dogs. How do they feel about it?
> 
> Cesar kicking dogs (Abuse).mp4 - YouTube


Omg I am not going to watch that whole video. He is putting his foot to the dog, in some with more force. You see the dog react in cases and jump. This is not kicking abuse. Watch the dogs? I do, what state is their mind in in these videos *before* he puts his foot or hand to them? Some are overly excited many are extremely, extremely nervous as they were when he arrived explaining why he is there. The contact (is that a better term for you?) is to stop the mind and redirect, to interrupt anxiety in a situation and redirect. Read The Dog's Mind by Bruce Fogle. Show me an image of Cesar intentionally inflicting harm on a dog to get his way, is that specific enough? Because that is what he is being accused of. He did not hurt the dogs in that video.


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## CorgiPaws

Kibblelady said:


> Wow that was insulting, you do not even know me. Lol so now I am abusive as well?? lol My point proven, thanks.


You said that you like CM and are "very much like him"which were YOUR words, not mine. His training methods are abusive. Anyone who is OK with hitting, kicking, choking, or flooding in the name of training is a threat to dogs in MY OPINION. I wouldn't want anyone that does that to be trusted with my animals. Call it a "firm touch" call it "redirecting" call it whatever. A kick is a kick, and he does it all the time. 
I'm not trying to insult you, I ust can't wrap my head around setting dogs up for failure, and then beating on them and calling it training. I wouldn't want my dogs subjected to that, ever.


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## StdPooDad

Kibblelady said:


> t pre-pounce stare mode.
> 
> I challenge anyone to show me a clip of Cesar *purposely* hitting or kicking a dog. "


Perhaps Holly should have "lightly tapped" Cesar to bring *him* out of his pre-pounce stare mode.
In the video, he clearly shoots his hand right into the side of her neck, and it is *not* a gentle tap.


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## CorgiPaws

StdPooDad said:


> Perhaps Holly should have "lightly tapped" Cesar to bring *him* out of his pre-pounce stare mode.
> In the video, he clearly shoots his hand right into the side of her neck, and it is *not* a gentle tap.


Part of being a good trainer is understanding dogs. 
Now, I'm not the best trainer in the world. My dogs aren't perfect. I own up to that. BUT he ignored the many many signals she was giving off and he continued to threaten her. I hate this man so much.


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## Kibblelady

StdPooDad said:


> Perhaps Holly should have "lightly tapped" Cesar to bring *him* out of his pre-pounce stare mode.
> In the video, he clearly shoots his hand right into the side of her neck, and it is *not* a gentle tap.


Like I said you will see what you want to see. I see something totally different and it is obviously lost on people so I wont even bother to explain it because it seems it will not be understood and turned into I am abusive lol I guess in that video the dog should continue to bite its owner when they touch it's food? Or no, wait... lets reward the dog for attempting to bite it's owner when they touch her food....no no wait this is better, lets just never touch the dog when it's eating...yeah that will send the right message and maybe it will even cause this dog to think biting is a way to solve it's problems? Naa I'm wrong though right? I forgot that everything has to be handled in all the new ways and anyone who says other wise is an abusive idiot.


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## Kibblelady

CorgiPaws said:


> Part of being a good trainer is understanding dogs.
> Now, I'm not the best trainer in the world. My dogs aren't perfect. I own up to that. BUT he ignored the many many signals she was giving off and he continued to threaten her. I hate this man so much.



Damn him for saving so many dog's lives!!


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## Kibblelady

Don't worry I am done. The convo will obviously go nowhere.


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## DaViking

Semantics. The end result is the same...


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## GoingPostal

Kibblelady said:


> Or no, wait... lets reward the dog for attempting to bite it's owner when they touch her food....no no wait this is better, lets just never touch the dog when it's eating...yeah that will send the right message and maybe it will even cause this dog to think biting is a way to solve it's problems? Naa I'm wrong though right? I forgot that everything has to be handled in all the new ways and anyone who says other wise is an abusive idiot.


Perhaps you should actually do some looking into counter conditioning because it doesn't seem like you understand it. I had a resource guarder, with kibble who I now hand and take away raw items with no stress on either side. I didn't reward him for trying to bite me, I didn't "dominate" him, I trained him that people around his food was a wonderful thing, not a threat and unlike Holly, my dog is still *in his home. * Cesar took a guarder and turned her into a biter who lost hers, I guess I don't see the success.


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## Tracy

GoingPostal said:


> Perhaps you should actually do some looking into counter conditioning because it doesn't seem like you understand it. I had a resource guarder, with kibble who I now hand and take away raw items with no stress on either side. I didn't reward him for trying to bite me, I didn't "dominate" him, I trained him that people around his food was a wonderful thing, not a threat and unlike Holly, my dog is still *in his home. * Cesar took a guarder and turned her into a biter who lost hers, I guess I don't see the success.


Couldn't say it better. :thumb:


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## Tracy

You are totally right that you need to do your own research and find out what's comfortable with you. 
Luckily I'm well clued up on canine body language, and take my dogs and other people's dogs into account before I start giving out advice. I always try to get what the owner wants, but never at the expense of their dog. I would never do what CM does when training a dog.
Again, it's what you feel comfortable with. Personally, if I'm giving out advice, then I feel it should never hurt the dog and owner bond.


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## Kibblelady

schism said:


> This thread is on dog forums all over the Internet. The PR/clicker trainers want Cesar Milan to die. The Cesar lovers want PR people to shove their clickers where the sun don't shine.... it's getting old IMO.
> Cesar Milan trains dogs the way HE wants to do it. If you don't want your dog trained this way, don't bring your dog to Cesar Milan. If you want a purely positive way of training then bring your dog to Victoria Stilwell or some other PR/clicker.
> I think the only thing that I hate about Cesar Milan's program is that people will attempt to imitate what he is doing (with or without the disclaimers at the beginning of the show) and that MOST people don't know how to do it properly. That is a liability. Another thing that Cesar Milan does that I hate, is that he keeps severely HA pit bull type dogs alive. That's a no no, but I won't even go there...
> This CONSTANT yammering from the PR folks on one side and the CONSTANT blind loyalty to Cesar Milan on the other is nothing less then repetitious and irritating.
> Do your own research. Just like nutrition, there is no "one size fits all" when it comes to dog training.
> I agree with Kibblelady, I don't see any kicks or punches there. I see consequences. He did, however, get in HER space and was very cocky/arrogant in his handling with her. I still personally wouldn't keep a dog like that... but I'm pretty fussy.
> That all being said, the guy doing the interview was a douche and Cesar handled himself with class. There's a lot to be said about both of their characters...


i agree with you. Although I hope I'm not being viewed as blindly filling anything lol that's just not me at all. Another thing I wanted to add to what you wrote is that Cesar is incredibly successful. Bad trainers do not achieve that. They do not get referrals or recommendations. Their business dies. Cesar has also used various other methods of influence, I do not call what he does training. 

Im pretty miffed that a board mod made a condescending and distasteful comment about me because I happen to identify with Cesar. This affected my posting and for that I apologize. Hard to have a good discussion with something like that stated about you as if you're unsafe or harmful to dogs. In my case the thought is preposterous.


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## Kibblelady

GoingPostal said:


> Perhaps you should actually do some looking into counter conditioning because it doesn't seem like you understand it. I had a resource guarder, with kibble who I now hand and take away raw items with no stress on either side. I didn't reward him for trying to bite me, I didn't "dominate" him, I trained him that people around his food was a wonderful thing, not a threat and unlike Holly, my dog is still *in his home. * Cesar took a guarder and turned her into a biter who lost hers, I guess I don't see the success.


of course you didn't. The rest of the episode was not shown. I also know about counter conditioning. I was being sarcastic.


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## Tracy

He speaks a good speak (if that's even sense), but I worry when he puts things in action. I always look at dogs. I dont care what owners really want, if their dogs are saying something different, that has to taken into account in my opinion.

I don't care who the person is. I dont have a thing for him personally. I just look at dogs and how they react, that's all I need to know. I've been to lots of different training and behaviour people ,positive and negative, studying dogs and especially reactive dogs which is my pet subject for personal and professional reasons.

I dont care who the TV star is, I look at the dog, and their feelings will be taken into account.(they know how they feel)


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## woganvonderweidenstrasse

Shame, poor Ceaser. I don't agree with everything he does, but he does not punish the dogs - it really is just a touch - even what may look like a kick is just touching with the heel. Some dogs are more strong willed and do need a firm handler. Try training a Schutzhund dog (Rottweilers, German Shepherds, etc.)with just treats...at some point (when the dog is older) you need to use a bit of correction. It's not cruel - and people must also realize dogs are tougher than you may think, especially the neck area is one of the toughest parts on his body and well muscled, they do not feel pain with the mild corrections Ceaser gives. The dog biting him was just protesting, a strong willed dog not liking being told what to do.


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## Kibblelady

schism said:


> Not to be argumentative but I don't fully believe the bold. Look at Brad Pattison... he is HORRIBLE to dogs. THIS is hitting-- Brad Pattison Hypocrisy - Is This Pleasant? - YouTube
> I believe that Cesar is a very charismatic/captivating man and I fully believe that contributes to his popularity.


Yeah, that is hitting. Not good IMO but as far as my statement I have never even heard of this person so how is he incredibly successful? Is he from the UK? Cesar is known all over the world and assists people all over the world


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## Kibblelady

schism said:


> Unfortunately, Hitler was also known all over the world..?
> Brad Pattison is more known in Canada *regrettably*  He has a tv show called At the End of My Leash, it's on the "Slice" channel, if you have cable or satellite? He's a jerk off.



Are you comparing Cesar to Hitler?


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## StdPooDad

I'm not schism, but I believe he was saying that just because you are known all over the world is not necessarily a good thing.



Kibblelady said:


> Are you comparing Cesar to Hitler?


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