# 2 things



## MissusMac (Jan 6, 2011)

1. My BFF called yesterday, said she read the links I gave her about raw and she's going all in! Last week she was saying she wanted to do half kibble half raw, but I think she realizes now that it makes more sense to go big or go home 

2. My husband got onto me (jokingly) last night because the night before, at a family dinner, I got a little "intense" when talking about raw. His aunts asked what made raw better and I said a few of the perks, but then made the mistake of saying, "...and foods like Purina, Iams, Eukanuba, etc. are just full of crap they don't need, which is why dogs eating kibble poop so much." Then they looked like this> :twitch: and one of his aunts said "oops, I feed my dog Purina." 

I need to learn how to educate people better instead of being so "intense"... and preferably I won't do it at the dinner table. Although, in my defense, my husband brought it up at dinner, not me. 

Some people think it is admirable that I'm so passionate about my dog, and some people just don't get it. Le sigh.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

man, i wish i could offer you advice on how to be tactful.

never one of MY strong suits, because i would have said...you feed your dog THAT overprocessed crap? 

and the dinner would have been over and i would have been in the dog house.

it is a passion.....i don't know why others have dogs...but for me, even when i wasn't semi housebound....they were my friends, my children, my companions, my pain in the derrieres....they were second only to my honey, and don't tell him, sometimes first.....

so how could i NOT do what's best for them...and when i did kibble, yes, it was out of ignorance...but once the seed was planted and the logic was inescapable...how could i NOT be passionate about processed foods and how horrible they are to both people and dogs..

you'd be surprised at how many people i've said things to when they pick up mac 'n cheese in a box.....i know it costs a dollar.
but for a dollar, there are things that are healthier.

money is tight here and everywhere, but i've compared our bills from then to now and shopping with brains ....the difference is not so great. and no, we don't buy 16.00/lb meat. sorry, there's only so far i can go.

still, the point is....even if the dog can only have feedlot meat and chickens that you have to rinse overnight....it STILL is better than unrecognisable nuggets of unadulterated crap.

:::::stepping off my soapbox:::::

ps. you can see why i'm no longer invited to family functions LOL


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## luvMyBRT (Mar 8, 2010)

I'm the exact same way....very passionate about raw feeding and to the people who don't get it, it probably comes off as being crazy.

Not too long ago a friend of mine who has a new puppy asked me about dog food. I asked her "do you really want to know???!" I don't think she had any idea the reply she was going to get.....LOL. I told her straight up about kibbles like purina, science diet, etc., gave her a list of decent kibbles and then also talked about raw. After several paragraphs I had to make myself stop because I knew I had already said too much....but oh, well.....that's just how I am. I'm gonna tell you what I know and what's best for your dog. If you don't want to know then don't ask me! :biggrin:


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## SerenityFL (Sep 28, 2010)

I don't bring it up but if someone does, I am also intense....mostly because I get the whole spiel about how I'm going to kill them and that they are "just dogs".

Yesterday, as I was walking out the door from work, one of the cooks handed me a container of food. I asked what it was. He said it was chicken. It was cooked and I thought, well, I guess I can use them as treats...

I opened the box to look at the chicken and asked if there was anything on the chicken, spices, whatever. He told me that there wasn't. I said, "Why are they so...oily?" He said it was the oil from the grill that they were cooked on. That "oil" is some fake "butter" crap that tastes terrible and we beg them not to use it on our food. I stared at the oil. 

He said, "It will make their coats shiny. We used to give our dogs a little bit of oil mixed in with their food and their fur was shiny."

I said, "Uh...have you seen my dogs lately? Their coats are shiny because of the raw, healthy diet, not because of some processed oil from a bottle."

I then shut up, thanked him for the box and promptly walked it out to the dumpster. Appreciate the gesture but, naw, I think I'll stick what what is working. (And it would have been thrown out anyway....don't give me that look...I fed the vultures, ok? They need to eat, too.)


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## RaisingWolves (Mar 19, 2011)

I have to really watch myself when the subject comes up. I'm extremely passionate about my dog's health, and "kibble mentality" is so widespread. I mean, how screwed up is it that people think overly processed, heat damaged food is better than fresh whole food in it's natural state?!!!


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## RaisingWolves (Mar 19, 2011)

magicre said:


> ps. you can see why i'm no longer invited to family functions LOL


So....how is this a bad thing?!:heh:eace:


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## MissusMac (Jan 6, 2011)

Whew, I'm glad I'm not the only one. I just need to find a more delicate way of educating people so they don't automatically get defensive like one person did. She said "Well I've had two dogs that lived past the age of 13 and I fed them Purina". I bit my tongue but I wanted to say "Oh, and no health problems eh?". Quality, not quantity.


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## MissusMac (Jan 6, 2011)

RaisingWolves said:


> I have to really watch myself when the subject comes up. I'm extremely passionate about my dog's health, and "kibble mentality" is so widespread. I mean, how screwed up is it that people think overly processed, heat damaged food is better than fresh whole food in it's natural state?!!!


I know! When the aunts asked why the kibble producers advertise vegetables I was like, well they are trying to sell a product so they'll advertise whatever they think might reel you in. Mission accomplished, apparently.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

luvMyBRT said:


> I'm the exact same way....very passionate about raw feeding and to the people who don't get it, it probably comes off as being crazy.
> 
> Not too long ago a friend of mine who has a new puppy asked me about dog food. I asked her "do you really want to know???!" I don't think she had any idea the reply she was going to get.....LOL. I told her straight up about kibbles like purina, science diet, etc., gave her a list of decent kibbles and then also talked about raw. After several paragraphs I had to make myself stop because I knew I had already said too much....but oh, well.....that's just how I am. I'm gonna tell you what I know and what's best for your dog. If you don't want to know then don't ask me! :biggrin:


you only stopped 'cause she was starting to glaze over, right ? LOL


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

RaisingWolves said:


> So....how is this a bad thing?!:heh:eace:


believe me, it is not. LOL


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

MissusMac said:


> I know! When the aunts asked why the kibble producers advertise vegetables I was like, well they are trying to sell a product so they'll advertise whatever they think might reel you in. Mission accomplished, apparently.


'mission accomplished'? does this mean you don't get invited anywhere either? : )


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

MissusMac said:


> Whew, I'm glad I'm not the only one. I just need to find a more delicate way of educating people so they don't automatically get defensive like one person did. She said "Well I've had two dogs that lived past the age of 13 and I fed them Purina". I bit my tongue but I wanted to say "Oh, and no health problems eh?". Quality, not quantity.


what did bill say that time? the dogs survived but didn't necessarily thrive or they survived in spite of kibble? always a favourite comeback.

i don't know that there IS a delicate way to smash a belief system....rather than delicately tap at it.....especially one that is so ingrained.

best to rip the bandaid off.....i think. i don't need friend or family LOL


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

SerenityFL said:


> I don't bring it up but if someone does, I am also intense....mostly because I get the whole spiel about how I'm going to kill them and that they are "just dogs".
> 
> Yesterday, as I was walking out the door from work, one of the cooks handed me a container of food. I asked what it was. He said it was chicken. It was cooked and I thought, well, I guess I can use them as treats...
> 
> ...


that's funny...but ya know? maybe it's time to stop shutting up......i don't know....they ask for studies and all i can show them are 20000 dogs plus (that i know of)......who are gorgeous and healthy with economically strapped vets. if that ain't science, what is?


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

I try not to make people feel bad about what they feed their dogs. People tend to shut down when they feel bad about something, especially their dogs. I try not to use words like "crap" "gross" "disgusting" but rather words like "inappropriate" "low quality" or "full of fillers". The more PC you are with your terminology the more they will tend to listen because they feel less hurt or threatened. To me when someone says "shut up!" to me it's not nearly as meaningful as "will you please be quiet?" If that analogy works...

I'm passionate about raw, no doubt about that. And it took me a while to learn what is best to say to someone who has no clue. The first thing you have to look for is interest. If people aren't interested in learning...there is no point to tell them anymore. You'll know right off the bat if there is just the slightest hint that they DO want to learn about raw. Not everyone puts their dogs as a priority or even consider them a member of the household. 

Second I focus on describing WHY we feed dogs raw diets. I have found that if I'm the one asking the questions (more in the form or rhetorical questions) the more smoothly the convo goes. I will ask things like "look inside a dog's mouth and what kind of teeth do you see?" and people nearly always say sharp ones. Then go into detail of what those teeth are designed to do- rip/tear through meat and crunch/smash bones. Then go into detail of the digestive system- short, highly acidic and only one stomach. Perfect set up for digesting meat and bone. Then go into detail of what a cow's digestive system looks like- long, multi-chambered stomachs, and full of symbiotic microflora to aid in digestion of plant material. I even go as far as to ask what it looks like the next day when they themselves eat corn on the cob and WHY we see whole kernels 

Staying friendly and polite is essential for people to pay attention, as best you can. The whole point is to help them, even get on a better kibble. What's the point of being passionate about something if no one will listen? I'm for sure not saying that you all are over the top or over the line, even myself am guilty of being too pushy with raw on some people!


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

i will be the first to say I tend to get more passionate than I should about things.

but, everything is not always black and white. The dog i had before these two lived until he was 17, he had absolutely no health problems until the last 3 months of his life, and he ate dry dog food his entire life. He was also a medium-large dog - 80 pounds. I can't remember him ever having anything except teeth cleanings that would have been averted by feeding raw. He had rabies shots and stitches once when another dog attacked him.

So maybe i wouldn't have been that receptive, either - if it ain't broke, why fix it? I actually didn't think much about dog food until the melamine thing.

Of course, now I see that I could have fed him much better. Maybe he would have lived until he was 20. What caused his death was a quickly progressing paralysis in his spine.


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## chowder (Sep 7, 2008)

I much prefer being around people that are passionate about things in life and are willing to talk about it !!:lalala: Now that I am back in school, I'm finding out that a lot of students just sit there staring into space without a thought in their heads except when can they leave. The classes where some of us get in heated debates are a whole lot more interesting. 

This board sure would be dull is no one here ever was passionate about their ideas. :biggrin1:


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## Northwoods10 (Nov 22, 2010)

I can totally understand getting passionate about raw...and maybe spitting out something offensive...its easy to do! But..

I have realized a way to speak about raw without offending the person asking questions, like Natalie said. I have found that the conversation goes MUCH smoother, they're more apt to ask questions and want to learn about it if I go about it in a way that involves them in the subject and what great things it can do for their dogs. 

I have quite a few friends with dogs that just feed whatever for kibble, Iams...Beneful, etc. and they know I feed raw and have asked about it and looked into it, but really aren't ready to jump or are ok with feeding kibble. Thats fine, whatever. But when it comes to me and my dogs...I will make every effort I can to provide them with a species appropriate diet and give them the best I possibly can. I am passionate about what they eat and how it affects them. Unfortunately this just isn't true for a lot of pet/dog owners. 

And what Xellil said.....I think a lot of them believe..."if it ain't broke, why fix it?" To them, what they see on the outside....is acceptable and their dog is surviving on kibble. What many don't understand is that there usually is some changes seen in dogs switched from kibble to raw....and go from surviving...to thriving. 

I think its the whole thought of "You're feeding your dog garbage, and there's a lot better choices out there" that come across as hard to swallow for some people. Change is hard, and one things for sure: They have to want to make a change in order to ever want to listen to what we'd have to say about raw and how it might benefit their dog. And that is just it, a lot of people are perfectly content with whats "working".


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

xellil said:


> everything is not always black and white. The dog i had before these two lived until he was 17, he had absolutely no health problems until the last 3 months of his life, and he ate dry dog food his entire life. He was also a medium-large dog - 80 pounds. I can't remember him ever having anything except teeth cleanings that would have been averted by feeding raw. He had rabies shots and stitches once when another dog attacked him.


FYI your dog probably wouldn't have made it to 17 without routine dental cleanings. Bad dental hygiene is actually the horrible demise of a lot of dogs. Dogs that don't have regular dental cleanings done are not nearly as healthy as those who do, typically. The mouth is the gateway to the rest of the body, unhealthy mouth means unhealthy body. This is probably the biggest reason why raw is the best thing you can give a dog.


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## CavePaws (Jan 25, 2011)

I can be overly passionate as well. I'm sure my boyfriend, mother, father, and sister have wanted to throw me out of dinner a few times. But what the heck, if someone wants the truth they should be prepared to handle the truth!


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

DaneMama said:


> FYI your dog probably wouldn't have made it to 17 without routine dental cleanings. Bad dental hygiene is actually the horrible demise of a lot of dogs. Dogs that don't have regular dental cleanings done are not nearly as healthy as those who do, typically. The mouth is the gateway to the rest of the body, unhealthy mouth means unhealthy body. This is probably the biggest reason why raw is the best thing you can give a dog.


yes, it's probably why my 13 year old dog has four teeth and an incredibly deformed mitral valve in her heart. No teeth care until she was 12.

and, i hate giving a dog anesthesia just to get their teeth cleaned. It is so dangerous. I am sure hoping I can avoid it with my other dog, now that he will be eating raw.


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## Northwoods10 (Nov 22, 2010)

CavePaws said:


> I can be overly passionate as well. I'm sure my boyfriend, mother, father, and sister have wanted to throw me out of dinner a few times. But what the heck, if someone wants the truth they should be prepared to handle the truth!


Agreed.

Its the truth that is so hard to grasp for many! That they may not be doing the best they can for their dogs...that there might be something better out there!


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

DaneMama said:


> I try not to make people feel bad about what they feed their dogs. People tend to shut down when they feel bad about something, especially their dogs. I try not to use words like "crap" "gross" "disgusting" but rather words like "inappropriate" "low quality" or "full of fillers". The more PC you are with your terminology the more they will tend to listen because they feel less hurt or threatened. To me when someone says "shut up!" to me it's not nearly as meaningful as "will you please be quiet?" If that analogy works...
> 
> I'm passionate about raw, no doubt about that. And it took me a while to learn what is best to say to someone who has no clue. The first thing you have to look for is interest. If people aren't interested in learning...there is no point to tell them anymore. You'll know right off the bat if there is just the slightest hint that they DO want to learn about raw. Not everyone puts their dogs as a priority or even consider them a member of the household.
> 
> ...


natalie, you are absolutely right. and you are an educator of the finest kind.....i should learn to be as tactful with raw as i had to be with internet clients and psychiatric clients during those two careers...

i don't really have a reason or an excuse, because i truly know that honey gets more flies than vinegar....

for example, when m.vick was caught with the dog fighting, i wanted him shot behind the courthouse. dogs mean more to me than most humans.....people often make mistakes. i have no problem with that. we are what we're taught. but once the idea is presented, and crap is not used as a descripter and the other person just looks at me as if i'm from mars...

i want to kill. and i lose any common sense i might have.....and it's not that i say something every chance i get...there are certain situations that just set me off......usually at petco when the sales reps are there....and i don't feel better having pummelled some poor schmuck who knows no better....who really does believe it is wrong...i know, after....there is a better way...and yours is it...

so here's the deal. you'll come with me to all family functions and to petco when i have to go. : )


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## SerenityFL (Sep 28, 2010)

magicre said:


> that's funny...but ya know? maybe it's time to stop shutting up......i don't know....they ask for studies and all i can show them are 20000 dogs plus (that i know of)......who are gorgeous and healthy with economically strapped vets. if that ain't science, what is?


Don't get me wrong, I am not afraid to voice my opinion in. the. slightest. However, as someone else here pointed out, if the person is not interested in learning and listening, you are wasting your breath. With this person, I was wasting my breath so I stopped myself before I really got started. It's not worth it. This person has already heard me talk about raw and why I feed raw. The very fact that he was giving me cooked chicken tells me he isn't listening and doesn't get it. So, really, why bother?

And Danemama is right...if someone WANTS to learn and wants to know, they will listen. I was thinking about how I read things when I started looking in to raw. I don't think anyone on any website was harsh or mean or rude....they told it like it is, they offered links and what evidence they could and they pretty much answered for every critique. But why was I so willing to listen? Was it how they said things? Not really. It was because I wanted to learn.

If someone doesn't want to learn, they may be looking right at you, maybe they are even nodding their heads, but all they hear is, "wah, wah, wah, wah, wah, wah..." like the teacher in Charlie Brown specials.

That's why I say that it's pointless for me to even talk about it....I've talked about it. They have formed their opinions and I'm sure they are all waiting for the day that one of my dogs drops dead. JUST so they can say, "See!?!" All I can do at this point is prove it to them with the dogs appearance, health and in time. Eventually, they're going to have to admit, maybe I know what I'm talking about.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

the one i love is when people stop me in the street to comment about my dogs and how gaw-jus they are.....how did you get them so soft and shiny and silky?

and, what can i say, i tell them they are fed raw. and that unleashes the usual:
1. saucer eye reaction
2. looking around not quite knowing if they heard right.
3. REALLY??
4. aren't you afraid of the germs, as they take two steps back and mentally make my 'pariah' sign?

at this stage in my life.....i think it's important that people know how i feel (without the crap).......and without any expectation on my part that they approve or agree.


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## MissusMac (Jan 6, 2011)

magicre said:


> at this stage in my life.....i think it's important that people know how i feel (without the crap).......and without any expectation on my part that they approve or agree.


ITA. This is what I told my husband... I grew up being interrupted and drowned out when I spoke my mind, and they're alllll paying for it now!


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## luvMyBRT (Mar 8, 2010)

magicre said:


> the one i love is when people stop me in the street to comment about my dogs and how gaw-jus they are.....how did you get them so soft and shiny and silky?
> 
> and, what can i say, i tell them they are fed raw. and that unleashes the usual:
> 1. saucer eye reaction
> ...


You forgot the "Wait....dogs can't have chicken bones!!" that is paired with the "your crazy" look...... :tongue:


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## RaisingWolves (Mar 19, 2011)

luvMyBRT said:


> You forgot the "Wait....dogs can't have chicken bones!!" that is paired with the "your crazy" look...... :tongue:


:heh: This is always the response I get...."You feed chicken bones, isn't that bad for them?" Or..."You feed human food to your dogs?!" :der:


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## 3Musketeers (Nov 4, 2010)

Half of my family is literally telling me that I'm starving my dogs, that they are "too thin" now. Sure, they were a little overweight before raw, so now they look different, but you can't see the ribs on any of them. They each get 5+ oz a day, and they still maintain their lean look.

But what they can't deny:
They have seen my dogs teeth go from utterly disgusting to being almost purely white.
They have seen my Popi's allergies go away completely, all of her fur has grown back in.
When I take my dogs over, they spend the WHOLE day running around out in the yard, as opposed to their short burst energy levels on kibble.
My Sparky's tail has longer hair than ever and omg? is growing more black hairs and even some ear fringe, that half-mutt.
They poop half as much as their dogs.

They used to tell me I was going to kill my dogs, that the bones would hurt them, that they would get some bacteria and die, etc, etc, now the only thing they tell me is that they are skinny and I need to feed them more. So overall, their view of raw has changed quite a bit at least and I even get to "borrow" chicken backs and other parts they don't eat themselves for my pups on a rare occasion.

Even then, my dad trusts my judgement in kibble (ever since I showed him the crap purina is), so over this past year they have gone from feeding their dogs Purina "little bites" to 4health, and just last week (since I get awesome discounts at work) I convinced him to get Wellness Core for his doggies. My grandma still free-feeds them, but at least they are getting better foods.

I have a few friends who are open to the idea of raw, but some are away in college and unfortunately its their parents who take care of the dogs/cats. But back to the point, here's to hoping the word will spread and the more people we can get to learn about raw-feeding or at least better nutrition in general, the better. It's awesome that you've gotten your friend to make the switch :biggrin:.

And the whole passionate about dogs part, most people around here don't get it, they say "it's just dogs", things of that matter, but any one of them would give the best they could to their kid, and yet when I try to relate it, they don't get it, my dogs are just that, their equivalent of kids. 
Unfortunately I am not rich and if I ever want to go back to and finish college then I will be even shorter on money, but if the best I can give is regular market-meats, then I'm happy I can give them that much at least. Heck, I go and spend a fortune on them while walking around in ripped jeans that need serious replacement XD.


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