# How do you talk to/deal with raw feeding naysayers?



## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

I have 3 dogs and they are my world. I have friends with dogs, while they love them and take them places, they are more like dogs and less like family. One of my friends feeds their 1 year old dog (first time dog owners) Canidae dry and pedigree wet food. The other feeds her dog Purina Proplan. 

I have fed my dogs TOTW for a few years now and recently switched to PMR. I take my dogs food seriously because they are my family and I care about them. My friends have a tendency to not understand or are repulsed by the idea. I have only mentioned it a few times but I'm not sure if I care to pursue it further. They say "can't they get sick?" and "dogs need vegetables too".

I just tell them "No and no they don't" and leave it at that. I've gotten in pretty big arguements with the Proplan girl because she is the type of person that can't be told anything. What she thinks is what she thinks. Because her dog is "healthy" and "loves" proplan. This girl and I share a lot of similar attributes but shes stubborn about her dogs food. He boyfriend actually said once "we should change Zoeys food" but she immediately shot it down. I'd love to help her but I don't think I can.

Anyway, I'm just wondering what you say to people? Are the supportive and understanding? Do they look at your like you are a crazy dog lady? 

I'm proud of my decision but its hard to explain to people who aren't in that same state of mind.


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## jdatwood (Apr 13, 2009)

I find it's completely situational. Some people are very open to hearing more, some people shut down and think we're crazy, some tell us we're killing our dogs LOL

It can be frustrating but remember how damaged they are because of big marketing...


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

I tell people who ask but if they want more information they have to pursue me. I will help anyone change over - but I will not argue over what I know to be right, what I have spent hundreds (literally) of hours researching. If they want to refute that is fine - they can feed their dogs whatever they want but I have spent alot of time researching food, vaccinations, topicals, exercise, genetics, etc so I don't offer myself to petty, silly, uniformed debate. I feel I am doing the best for my dogs and rest comfortably knowing that my pups are not going to the vet for food allergies, vaccinosis, or a myriad of other problems. You know you are doing the best for your pet, rest in that and don't expect others to agree. Agree to disagree. I have to do that alot with what I believe in many areas. Your dogs will be your best witness.


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

I'm just going to let the results speak for themselves  Especially when we go camping and its time for the dogs dinner!

Even when I fed TOTW, I pretty much kept to myself about my dogs diet. The Canidae dog could definitely use weight and I asked her about the protien content of her dogs food. She just said "I dont know" and kind of shrugged. I can't help if they don't care so I guess it ends at that.


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## monkeys23 (Dec 8, 2010)

Actually I've been surprised at how few naysayers I've encountered. Most people are like oh that actually makes sense!

I do try to educate in a nice way. I get a lot of friends giving excuses like oh we don't have the space, it'd be more expensive (than the Orijen you are feeding him? Riiiiiight...), etc. The same silly excuses I made several years ago. Go figure.


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

monkeys23 said:


> Actually I've been surprised at how few naysayers I've encountered. Most people are like oh that actually makes sense!
> 
> I do try to educate in a nice way. I get a lot of friends giving excuses like oh we don't have the space, it'd be more expensive (than the Orijen you are feeding him? Riiiiiight...), etc. The same silly excuses I made several years ago. Go figure.


Proplan girl uses "look at my dog, shes healthy and loves her food" Canidae people say "He gets at cost at the feed store so thats what we feed."


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## PDXdogmom (Jun 30, 2010)

I like Liz's first sentence: _I tell people who ask but if they want more information they have to pursue me._

Food choices for dogs or humans falls into the same realm as religion, politics, and a number of other subjects. You don't have to hide what you do or your opinions, but realize that not everyone may be wanting more information. If it's really hard to let another person's comment about dog feeding go by because you vehemently disagree with it, say in a very matter-of-fact tone something like: I have very different views from you about this subject. Let me know if you ever want to hear my perspective.


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## minnieme (Jul 6, 2011)

Sprocket said:


> Proplan girl uses "look at my dog, shes healthy and loves her food" Canidae people say "He gets at cost at the feed store so thats what we feed."


The canidae people I can understand -- I think that's a totally legitimate reason to feed a certain dog food and one that many many many people live by. I think they're also easier to sway though once they find out that raw can potentially be done on a budget.

That said... I probably wouldn't even mess with proplan girl. She's too ignorant for much to get through. Ex: Minnie LOVESLOVESLOVES pita bread, but does that mean I'm gonna feed her a diet of pita bread?!?! Good god, no...she has no clue what is good for her or not! 

Unfortunately, I bet your friend's proplan fed dog is pretty young so although she may not see the effects of such shite kibble at the moment, I bet she will in the future (either in the way of allergies, dentals, etc). 

But hey, at least YOU'RE on the right track!! :wink:


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## KittyKat (Feb 11, 2011)

I've had people say "Well they will get salmonella" or "They will choke on the bones" but after explaining that a dogs digestive system would take care of anything, and that they are designed to eat bones.... plus they can choke on kibble or any manner or things they usually shrug and end the conversation. I don't generally bring it up when i'm out with my dog unless people ask what she eats. Although when I worked in a health food store i'd bring it up when people came in with dog allergy issues. Everyone was shocked and would say it makes sense... but they of course see the issue the food is causing.


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## Kat (Jul 12, 2011)

I come across both, some people are open to hearing more and are interested in how I am feeding my dog, while one of my friends in particular is completely against raw feeding. She says stuff like ''i dont want to watch you kill your dog, i cant come over because your house is now covered in germs from the dog licking and sniffing around, etc." With the negative people I have just learned to say "well, its my decision, its working for me and my dog, if you dont like it then dont talk about it" kind of thing.


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## monkeys23 (Dec 8, 2010)

More likely to get salmonella from kibble.... look at all the salmonella recalls they have!

Eh I probably wouldn't waste my time with proplan girl. She sounds like a willfully ignorant cranky pants. So whatevs, hopefully she can leave you alone too...


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

minnieme said:


> The canidae people I can understand -- I think that's a totally legitimate reason to feed a certain dog food and one that many many many people live by. I think they're also easier to sway though once they find out that raw can potentially be done on a budget.
> 
> That said... I probably wouldn't even mess with proplan girl. She's too ignorant for much to get through. Ex: Minnie LOVESLOVESLOVES pita bread, but does that mean I'm gonna feed her a diet of pita bread?!?! Good god, no...she has no clue what is good for her or not!
> 
> ...


The canidae dog is 1 yo and really needs more weight. Proplan dog is 2, she is a little over weight, and does "look " okay.

I'm really not looking to change them, unless they want help. I'm more so looking to keep them from thinking I'm an extreme crazy dog person.


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

You really have to just let it go! Eventually, they will see the light and start asking more questions. People are so ignorant when it comes to dogs and dog food and what they were designed to eat it really amazes me. I don't say anything anymore to people, I wait for them to come to me.


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## Noodlesmadison (Sep 18, 2011)

I just say "well, it makes her 10x healthier and happier and her bladder is healthier now" (bladder probs) and shrug and walk away.
I'm VERY used to this though because I'm vegan and get it quite a bit for that. I just say "I don't get sick anymore (only small colds) and I'm healthier, etc." I used to be VERY sickly. Sick every other week and constantly in the hospital for things. No more.
I would just shrug and, if necessary, tell someone to f off. I do the same approach with people about raw if they become nasty or too judging about it


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## tem_sat (Jun 20, 2010)

I will tell you what made "sense" to me as a lurker in this forum. Dentals. Dentals did it for me. Saving $250.00 per year made so much sense and seemed so simple. So you might just make a short comment like, "I am sure your dog does well on ProPlan, but after paying my vet $750.00 for dentals over the past 3 years, PMR is saving me a bundle." 

I know I would continue the conversation with you if you were to have mentioned that.


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## hmbutler (Aug 4, 2011)

It might also depend where they got their Canidae and Proplan info from - I was told by my vet, when I got my cat 4 years ago, and again when I got my dog last year, that a "quality" dry food and water was all they needed. Note, "quality" dry food includes the Advance dry food they sell in their vet clinic, but he actually recommended Purina Supercoat, which they did not sell (so I had no reason to think it was a marketing scheme by him). I fed them purina supercoat exclusively. I heard from a few people who cook food for their dogs (meat, pasta, veges) and I waved them off without a second thought, because I figured if my VET told me to feed it, it had to be the best thing for them (plus as if I wanted to cook two extra meals eat night!). 

It wasn't until an information sheet that came with a dog toy I purchased off ebay alterted me to the fact that dogs don't need grains, carbs, corn etc in their diet, and that it was in fact BAD for them, that I decided to do a bit of research myself. The information sheet recommended raw meat, bones and vegetables, and I was happy with that suggestion, but then came across the PMR model and found that to make a lot more sense. However, had it been someone in person actually trying to tell me these things, I might not have believed them... I don't know what it is, but reading it online and in writing made it more real for me, and really made me consider it. I then made the switch of Duke to raw, and Nala to a grain-free dry food (as she didn't take to raw very well, and I'm happy for now that the dry food now is a HELL of a lot better than the purina supercoat I was feeding before).

I have mentioned it to friends, and given them the PMR website and this site too, and told them my reasons for doing what I'm doing, but I don't think any of them have switched, and I'm not sure if they will. But I'm not going to keep pushing it - they have the information now, up to them what they do with it. I know my brother has taken it onboard (after switching his dogs to a "pet mince" that the butcher prepares, which is ground raw with no additives, he can't believe the change in poop haha) and he has asked me a lot about what I feed and how much it costs etc. And one friend has said when their "puppy" formula food runs out, they are looking at doing BARF, which is better than nothing! Not sure if the others I've suggested it to have made any changes, if they have, they haven't said anything.

Basically, you have to take it with a grain of salt - some people will listen, some will not. For me, the thing that got my attention wasn't that dogs are designed to eat raw meat and bones, or that raw meat and bones are good for them... it was the fact that the crap I was feeding them was SO BAD for them, and I had no idea.


ETA: I also have two friends with young pups, so I recommended raw to them last week. One responded with "he has really sensitive skin so he's on these REALLY expensive, special formula biscuits" (coz really expensive means really good, right? I told her raw might clear up the sensitivity issues, dunno if she took it on board) and the other replied with "oh yeah the breeder has told me what she feeds the puppies, and she has been breeding them for ___ years so she knows what is best" (I think she feeds a cheap kibble too... ugh)


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## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

I'm another one who lets the results speak for themselves. If someone says, hey, that dogs got a beautiful coat, or how come her teeth are so white, I'll tell them and at that point I'm prepared to refute any delusions they may have. As long as I speak logically most people will listen. If they don't, I don't care, there are far more important things in life for me to worry about than someone who isn't open to thinking outside the box.
Although, I do really try (when someone feed Pedigree or similar) to persuade them to feed a better quality kibble.


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

Everyone knows how I feed...ya know, as you know I talk about it all over facebook!!:tongue:

If anyone wants to question me I welcome them...ready for a nice talk, or a big argument..one or the other!LOL :lol:

By ya know.......Ive had a few brought over to the dark side...now havent I!?!?!LOL So Im not always rude, crass and too blunt with everyone!LOL :lol:


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

I'm going through this right now with a friend who feeds purina one and thinks it's a decent food...


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

meggels said:


> I'm going through this right now with a friend who feeds purina one and thinks it's a decent food...


Same friend we "talked" to on facebook??LOL


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## hmbutler (Aug 4, 2011)

Scarlett_O' said:


> Everyone knows how I feed...ya know, as you know I talk about it all over facebook!!:tongue:


haha you sure have sparked some fiesty debates from what I've seen :tongue:

I think the key is making them realise the ingrediants there dog is eating are BAD for them... I responded quickly once I knew it was harming my pets, but might not've if I was just told there was a healthier option out there (without realising mine was unhealthy). Then let them do the research and chose a better food. If they're on a pretty decent kibble/canned food I wouldn't stress as badly, but if they're feeding the real crap stuff I'd do my best


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

Haha, yes Abi. Some one


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

"So we've had our disagreements but until you go to vet school I'm taking my close friend and vets advice over anything else. 

My priorities are long term health, and just because I feed Purina doesn't mean I'm a horrible dog mom."




Me: 

I didn't say you're a horrible dog mom. But I don't understand how someone could read the ingredient label and still think it's an okay food to feed their dog. And even when I try to help you by offering to give you different options that are healthier, you stay closed minded and stubborn and dig your heels in. You do what you want for your dogs, and if you read that ingredient label and think that dogs need a food that is mostly corn, soy, wheat and by products to be fed in a healthy manner, then there's not much I can do to persuade you otherwise I guess. It doesn't even have meat as a first ingredient, since it lists solely chicken, which is water inclusive, and moves farther down the ingredient list when you remove the 80% water.

It doesn't take a vet to know what decent nutrition is for a dog. It takes common sense and knowing that corn, wheat, soy and by products aren't it. I can think of a dozen people I would go to for nutrition questions before I'd go to most vets. I spend hours every single day reading about dog nutrition, I know a decent amount of info whether you like to believe it or not, that's up to you. I encourage you to go onto dog nutrition sites and forums and do some reading though."


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

Thanks everyone  HI Abi! Haha

Next time they ask "why" I'm going to send them the link to PMR.


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## Love my lab (Dec 9, 2010)

Agree w/ everyone else. For us I have found it both ways.....more towards the I am nuts and you really feed your dog that..ewww that is disgusting then the ohh wow I am intersted. But I dont care. I have the wife of my pups dad intersted in the diet, but her husbands says no way. My sister in law in the beginning would totally change subjects the minute I brought it up (she is all about her dog so I thought out of anyone she would be the one to listen and be intersted plus her dog has allergies galore...she feeds Nutro) now however, I have noticed her asking...."how is Reahven doing on the diet?" I gleem inside because she has seen Reahven and thinks she looks amazing. Enough said ......lol. Last week my daughters boyfriend was asking me about this and "how it works" so I explained and he said hmmmm I will have to read on it. Sooo the other day I said hey was he serious or just yanking my chain? and she goes no he is serious...so I made a copy of Prey Model how to that Bill has on his link and gave him a few books I have (that of course have lots highlighted and they are wrote in everywhere) so time will tell. I find it hard to keep quiet when I have people around me feeding beneful and Iams and they think it is just great.....I make comments and it goes in one ear and out the other. The ones that feed those foods think I just "read" to much. So basically, I do what is best for my dog and know when someone is just not appraochable...for some I guess ignorance is bliss. Your friends will see your dogs look great and be healthy and in time may become curious or may not.....but in the mean time your dogs will be loving their food !!!!


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## Cliffdog (Dec 30, 2010)

Most people on the Doberman forum I'm on feed Purina Pro Plan. They say that Dobes have sensitive stomachs and can't handle a "rich" food. I want to say something but I don't.  When people ask what I feed I just say "Diamond Naturals" because I'm still feeding that in the morning. My dad thinks raw is an insufficient, incomplete diet so he won't let me switch his dog to all raw, and it's just more convenient to feed them both the same thing so I don't switch mine either (yet). He tunes me out any time I try to make a case for raw... although he _did_ listen and acknowledge months ago that Purina, Science Diet, Pedigree etc etc are awful, which was a triumph because when he bred labs he fed Ol' Roy and thought it was the greatest.


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## Tobi (Mar 18, 2011)

I stopped bothering with people that haven't taken the time to look into anything nutritionally related to canines, and insist that they need a balanced grain based diet, they are a waste of my time, and i let them know.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Sometimes folks just need to moderate their approach

Such as "I switched to something that totally changed my dog's health and I think it would be a much better choice for your dog also" rather than "you know you are killing your dog with that crap."


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## Southpaw (Oct 17, 2011)

I don't really talk diet with people, unless they ask me. When I fed kibble, it was a high quality kibble and the story was still the same--sometimes you just can't convince people that Eukanuba is not the diet they should be feeding. It's all about $$$ and which bag is the prettiest or what company has the coolest commercials. It's just not worth it to me to have that discussion with someone unless they express an interest (I also avoid topics such as training and breeding/breeders for the same reason). 

The people who have asked me about it seem to "get" it. They might think it's gross, or weird... but I think a lightbulb goes off in their head when I tell them a wolf wouldn't stand over a campfire cooking their food. They eat it RAW as do many other wild animals. The proof is in the pudding though. I get comments all the time about how shiny Juno's coat is, and I tell them it's because of her diet.


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

I just use it as a chance for a quick little lesson on how dogs are carnivores. I leave it at that and let them think about it.


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## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

I have had people who think it is really neat and are disgusted by what I tell them about kibble and they want to learn more. I usually refer them to this site and to pmr.com. I haven't run into most of these people again and I would like to think that they actually went home and took the time to look into it but I can't know for sure. At least I got the information out there and they will likely think of it every time they pour that Iams. 

Then I come across your typical nay-sayers. I have taken to carrying pictures of Dude's teeth around with me to show regarding the dental benefits and when people tell me that they are going to get sick I simply tell them, "Well did you know that kibble has salmonella and e. coli in it too? Their bodies are MUCH more resistant to bacteria than ours is. That's why dogs don't get sick when they kill and eat small animals." 

When they try to tell me that they are omnivores I tell them about the teeth, jaws, amylase, digestive system, etc. People don't typically know all that about dogs so when they come across someone who does, they don't know what to do. I have had people stop, look at me for a minute, and say, "Wow, you sure know a lot about dogs." I haven't actually had a conversation end on a negative note yet. 

I am also guilty of loudly discussing the bad ingredients and negative aspects of whatever brand of kibble someone has in their cart. I see people at Walmart all the time with giant bags of Ol' Roy, Purina, and Beneful. Wlamart dog food isn't even made the same way as PetSmart dog food of the same brand. My manager at PetSmart was telling us about it last year and sure enough, when I compared the two, Walmart's Pedigree dog food had fewer (and cheaper) ingredients in it than PetSmart's. A friend confirmed it with Iams too.


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