# Pit bulls & Dog parks!



## ShanniBella (Jul 1, 2011)

I figured I would cross post this here on this forum seeing as how there are alot of pit bull owners who frequent :smile: I also thought that maybe other dog owners who don't quite understand our breed or why these dogs DON'T belong at dog parks can have a better understanding of the reason why the responsible and educated owners stay far away from parks. Dog aggression in our dogs should not be a problem. Good management and knowledge prevent trouble. Responsible and caring pit bull owners have done their homework and know what to expect from the breed. This breed's genetic traits involve dog aggression, to varying degrees. Even the most well socialized pit bull can one day decide that other dogs are not play buddies. It happens most often when the dog reaches maturity between two and three years of age, and it can happen without apparent reason. 

Here are some good articles for basic breed information: 

Pit Bull Rescue Central 
http://www.realpitbull.com/fight.html 

Because of the breed's background, it is unfair to expect dogs to behave the way we want them to when it comes to dog aggression and dog to dog relationships. We set our dogs up for failure when we decide to let them off leash in a public place and allow them to romp with other dogs. Dog parks are a place where people like to chit chat with each other, paying very little attention to what happens around their dogs. Posturing, body language, subtle looks and even vocalization are often misunderstood or overlooked by dog owners. Even when dogs let us know what is about to happen we might not see what is happening until it is too late. Most dog owners have no idea of what body language means, and don’t know how to intervene if things go wrong. They panic, scream, yell, and hit the attacking dog; all of which often just makes things worse. A fight between two dogs can be hard enough to stop; now imagine a fight among 4 or 5 of them. In fights like these, pets and even people can be seriously injured. 

Dog parks are also a place where unknown dogs are present. We don't know if they’re fully vaccinated or in good health. They can be sick and our dogs can get ill as well. 

We don't know if they are truly friendly dogs or if they may be aggressive. Everybody's dog is friendly, according to their owners. When the "friendly" dog decides to snap at ours, a fight starts. 

Who is going to be blamed for that fight? Will it be the pit bull or the cute little fluffy dog? The answer is obvious. 

Here is the story of one accident at a dog park, involving a pit bull.: 

http://www.badrap.org/rescue/dogpark.cfm 

Below is an article about a pit bull named Nettie that attacked a police horse, in San Francisco, in 2003. Nettie was let off leash at a public park by her irresponsible owner. The dog did nothing wrong, but she was set up for failure by the person who should have protected her. Nettie belonged to an SPCA volunteer and she was often taken to senior centers to comfort the elderly. Nettie was a good dog. This pretty pit bull female paid the price for her owner’s ignorance and irresponsibility with her life. Many dogs have lost their lives the same way, due to the same kind of irresponsibility. It took her life for her owner to "get it.” Like most situations of this sort, the events that ultimately resulted in Nettie’s unfair death were totally preventable. 

Pit bull attacks police horse in Golden Gate Park; two injured 


Each time a pit bull is allowed to harm another pet all pit bull owners and their dogs suffer. One common defensive reaction of dog park lovers is "the dog is mine and it is nobody's business where I take it.” This is not true. It is every pit bull owner's business as well. We are surrounded by BSL (Breed Specific Legislation) all over the Country. The news media report dog to dog attacks or dog to cat/cow/horse/sheep attacks almost every day, and with the same attention as if Osama Bin Laden had been captured. Reporters often compare human aggression to animal aggression. How many times do we hear "it was a dog but it could have been a child"? 

It is ridiculous but it happens every day. “There goes another vicious pit bull attacking an innocent dog or cat!” What happens after a pit bull attacks another dog in the neighborhood or at the local dog park? It is like we suddenly own wild animals that have no right to exist. Our friendly neighbor suddenly stops talking to us and no longer lets her children come around our dog. The person we used to walk our dog with is no longer available because she fears for her pet. The two men down the street no longer come and pet our dog when we walk by their homes or rush into the house if they have their dogs with them. People ask for a ban. We did not change and our dog is the same as always but this is the result of one mistake, caused by someone who obviously did not care about the rest of us. It is a sad situation to be in. 

This breed doesn't need any more accidents, we can't afford them. We are in this situation thank to those who failed their own dogs. When a whole breed suffers because of someone's action it is our business as well. No doubt on that. 

Vet bills aren't cheap, emotions can be overwhelming, the guilt stays, so why to risk it? It isn't fair that only one breed is targeted when dogs of other breeds have killed or attacked other dogs. Today, a dog behaving like a dog has become a sin. Fair or not that is how the situation is and every pit bull owner needs to understand it. 

The point of socialization is for a dog to have positive experiences with other dogs. When people take their dogs, perhaps puppies, to a park and something happens, they are responsible for the consequences. A young dog that is attacked for no reason won't be so willing to be friendly the next time it meets an unknown dog. An experience like that is a bad start and can often lead to problems in the future. There are no guarantees on what can happen at a dog park because dog parks are often full of different dogs with different personalities and tolerance levels. Even an easy going adult dog can change its approach after an attack. It is hard enough for a dog of this breed to tolerate other dogs and it is a big mistake to contribute to bad experiences. Dogs should always rely on us to defend them--the trust factor is important. We are responsible for protecting our dogs from harm. A dog that has no choice but to defend itself loses its trust in the owner and knows that in the future it needs to take care of itself. It then becomes fearful of other dogs and not so willing to behave like a well-balanced dog that was socialized in the appropriate way. 

How can we socialize around other dogs then? Good question. Socialization is a must but it has to be done with common sense and in a controlled environment. Perhaps a friend has a mellow dog of the opposite sex and he/she is willing to let the dogs play together. Both owners should know that there is the possibility of a scrap and will intervene immediately and with the appropriate tools/techniques. Both owners will watch their dogs closely and never leave them unsupervised. 

Every pit bull owner should have a breaking stick available, even when on a walk, hidden somewhere. It is a quick and effective way to break a hold. 

What is a breaking stick and why it is an important tool to have: 
Pit Bull Rescue Central 

Some information on how to break up a fight: 
Pit Bull Rescue Central 

Obedience classes are an option too. In obedience classes, the dogs are leashed and can learn to control themselves in the presence of other dogs. It is not necessary for a pit bull to be dog friendly, but it is necessary for us to help them learn to control natural behaviors. Dogs that are exposed to this kind of environment can learn to behave with some time and work. 

The local feedstore/petstore is another way to socialize our dogs, because they are another place where dogs are leashed. It’s important to remember that it doesn’t mean we don't need to pay attention to the surroundings. Respect the comfort level of your dog and move away from other dogs if necessary. Face to face interactions can quickly end badly, even when both dogs are leashed. 

Those who are still convinced that a pit bull belongs to a dog park would benefit from reading these links. Their dogs and all of us will benefit as well.Please, don't set your dog up for failure.


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## AngelBullys (Jan 1, 2012)

Great post . I always bring this up to new owners and have turned down buyers who refused to accept this and think each dog should be equal and be able to use the park. There are so many other options to do with your dog then have to use a dog park. Even when I had my boston we never used these. You run such a risk for disease { alot of people dont vaccinate or worm there dogs, alot more then you prob think}. Plus I have seen other "friendly family " type breeds start fights really any dog can its dog behaviour. Dominent dogs in general dont do well together ,too many want to be the boss and irresponsible owners sit there yapping away ignoring warning signs there dogs are giving. Id rather play off leash in a empty tennis court or meet with a friend we know to let the dogs play if need be. { I have enough dogs here they dont need play dates though lol}


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## ciaBrysh (Dec 16, 2011)

Personally I find most dog parks unhealthy for almost any breed not just the bully breeds. You can't always trust other owners to be as vigilant in veterinary care as most of us:thumb: Good posting!


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

I stay away, far, far, far away.....Mostly because of uneducated owners and because they are there to socialize themselves!


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## Jacksons Mom (Jun 13, 2010)

I agree on the Pittie thing. But I know our dog parks around here are great. Maybe I'm just really lucky but have always had very good luck and a great time... most of the owners have always been great, very talkative but still keeping an eye on their dogs, dogs always enjoy each others company. Maybe it's different on the small dog side, LOL.


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

whiteleo said:


> I stay away, far, far, far away.....Mostly because of uneducated owners and because they are there to socialize themselves!


EXACTLY why we generally dont go to them....I took Rhett to the beach one in So. Cal ONLY because it wasnt very packed, had plenty of area, I only had one dog to watch and he had something to DO!!:wink:

But in general dog parks are a no-go for me....as from most of what Ive seen most people see them as a "fenced area to turn your dogs loose in and read a book or yack with another un-caring dog owner and not even watch your dog"!!UGH!!


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## ShanniBella (Jul 1, 2011)

Another problem is that people use dog parks as an excercise outlet for there dogs instead of walking them to burn off the excess energy first. Dogs that have gone all week with no activity and then they are left to run a muck at a dog park causing all kinds of issues. Before I knew better I took my GSD to a local park which was also surrounded by 2,060 acres of conservation land. We would hike first and then I would let him interact with other dogs after. There were always so many dog owners just standing around sipping their starbucks coffee and chatting while there dog was off starting trouble with another dog. Then, here comes joe shmoe with his big intact rottweiler who would bully other dogs until another big intact male came along and then BOOM a nice fight would break out with sometimes other dogs joining in. Looked like a pack of wolves fighting over a kill! Ironically enough when I would go to this place 10 years or so ago I would also see pit bulls. If I knew then what I know now I would have voiced my opinion to the owner but in a "nice" way. There was a guy who showed up one day with an intact male pit/weimeraner mix and he had the mother a full bred pit bull on a leash because she was "in heat" but just coming out of it! WTH are you doing at a dog park you idiot! Intact males and females have no business being at dog parks because 99% of the time two intact males will fight and it always amazes me how many dog owners don't seem to know that. It just amazes me that people think these places are great for there dogs of any breed. Not all random dogs will get along with eachother and at some point you are bound to find yourself in some situation.


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## Julee (Jan 6, 2012)

I love the *idea* of dog parks. I hate how they're run in reality.
I think that dogs should have to be tested, proof of vaccines, etc and recieve a permit to be allowed into the park. I realize this is completely far fetched and will never actually happen, but if I was going to found a dog park, this is how I would require it be run.


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## bernadettelevis (Feb 2, 2011)

Are your dog parks fenced areas wherethe dogs can play? If yes we don't really have them around.

We have huge off leash areas where you can take up to 2 hour walks almost in the middle of the city. If you don't want your dog to have contact to other dogs, there is enough space to avoid other dogs.

I would never take my dog to a fenced area where it can play with i don't know how many dogs.

Great post, but i have a question do suggest not letting pit bulls off leash on walks???


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## Hadley (Jan 6, 2011)

bernadettelevis said:


> Are your dog parks fenced areas wherethe dogs can play? If yes we don't really have them around.
> 
> We have huge off leash areas where you can take up to 2 hour walks almost in the middle of the city. If you don't want your dog to have contact to other dogs, there is enough space to avoid other dogs.
> 
> ...


I suggest to people not to let their pit bulls off leash during walks. Absolutely. The breed is in a very scary place right now and owners need to be extra careful. If they have any doubts in their ability to control their dog offleash, then they have no business letting them off. They either need to find a safe, fenced in area that they CAN exercise their dogs in, or find another way. The only way we're going to save this breed is if we all work together and watch out for our dogs.


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## kady05 (Jul 29, 2011)

The only place my dogs are allowed off leash is a 100 acre park by my house. There is very rarely anyone there (which is so weird to me, it's awesome there!), and my dogs have extremely solid recall. Otherwise, I'd never let them off leash.

And yeah, no dog parks. I'm not a fan of them for any breed, but especially for Pit Bulls!


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

I take my dogs to an open area specifically for dogs. Its about 200 acres of land. They do have an occasional passing interaction with other dogs and people but mostly just run around with each other and follow me as I walk. They are solid on recall and I've never had any issues at this park. 

I don't like the fenced in cess pools however. Too many people, too many oppurtunities for disagreements.


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## AngelBullys (Jan 1, 2012)

I dont think any dog should be offleash unless so well trained they dont leave there owners side for anything. I have had numerous small dogs run up on my bullys and then have to deal with it alone because there owners wont come get them and usually the small dogs start crap with mine they cant finish.You have to remember just because your dog is friendly doesnt give you the right to let them off leash , the dog they run up on may very well be dog aggressive. I Have had 3 attacks on my bullys that needed vet care because of off leash dogs who were " friendly " as the owners yelled up to me from about 50 yard down the trail. So when I run into owners with off leash dogs in our leashed only park Im probably a little more rude then need be.
As a owner of this breed I always tell people getting into bullys/ apbt's that even though our dogs are friendly or may not start stuff its our dogs who get blamed when anything goes bad. So that cute lil pug or whatever may start the fight but ours sure can end it, and then noone cares whos dog was on the leash or wasnt on the leash the "pitbull" will always carry the blame. I always say dont set your dog up to fail and it wont, dog parks and off leash walking is a big FAIL to me.


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## ShanniBella (Jul 1, 2011)

bernadettelevis said:


> Great post, but i have a question do suggest not letting pit bulls off leash on walks???


Yes, I would never let my girl off leash...period! I don't suggest other owners to either. Dog aggression is manageable but you can't train it out of pit bulls no matter how you try. My girl is DA but pays no mind to other dogs when we are out walking or in pet stores where other leashed dogs are present and that is because of training. She in non reactive which I love because I always laugh when I pass people on our walks who have a jack russell, pug, golden, lab, or mutt that is growling and barking at my pit bull who pays no mind LOL!


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## Steph (Jun 24, 2011)

In most places, there are leash laws (not in dog parks obviously). So regardless if you can control your dog or not, it's illegal to let them off. Not to mention, if I was obeying the law and your dog walked up to my dog, I'd be really annoyed. AND if I just so happened to have a dog aggressive dog your dog could get it's butt handed to him and there is nothing you could do about it.


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## ShanniBella (Jul 1, 2011)

There is this arrogant little half a man that walks around my neighborhood with his big walking stick and his loose aggressive black pug where I live. I had a run in with him about 5 months ago when his dog charged at my leashed dog. I picked up my dog and told him to put his dog on leash because it's obviously aggressive. He told me to shut up and who do I think I am! I told him well apparently you think you are Cesar Milan walking with your stick and loose dog only yours isn't well trained. I said "there's a leash law" in our city so abide by it! I said a few other choice words that aren't appropriate for the forum but I was MAD as heck! His mouth still kept going to as I was walking away so I flipped him the bird and told him I better not run into him again! So here I am being a responsible pit bull owner and along comes little loose cujo dog trying to attack mine. If my leashed dog did damage to his little innocent pug guess who's dog would have been blamed! Yup.....mine


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## chewice (Jan 1, 2012)

Awesome post. 

I got taken down by a sweet pitbull trying to keep up with my dog in a huge "off leash" (not technically one where im from but alot of dog owners go there). One gigantic bruise later...all good. It couldve happened with anyone... but that stereotype thought of... oh s*** my dog wants to run with a young pitbull crossed my mind, and the owner had no recall training. Its scary out there, so we all have to be responsible.


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## AngelBullys (Jan 1, 2012)

ShanniBella said:


> There is this arrogant little half a man that walks around my neighborhood with his big walking stick and his loose aggressive black pug where I live. I had a run in with him about 5 months ago when his dog charged at my leashed dog. I picked up my dog and told him to put his dog on leash because it's obviously aggressive. He told me to shut up and who do I think I am! I told him well apparently you think you are Cesar Milan walking with your stick and loose dog only yours isn't well trained. I said "there's a leash law" in our city so abide by it! I said a few other choice words that aren't appropriate for the forum but I was MAD as heck! His mouth still kept going to as I was walking away so I flipped him the bird and told him I better not run into him again! So here I am being a responsible pit bull owner and along comes little loose cujo dog trying to attack mine. If my leashed dog did damage to his little innocent pug guess who's dog would have been blamed! Yup.....mine


Ugh I know how that is. We had the same thing happen except from people who used to live across the street there lab mix mutt came charging at us while I was getting the kids out of the car.Luckly I was able to throw the kids and dogs back into the car and the mutt went to the boyfriends side of the car and got a nice boot to the face. People came out seen what happened didnt even say anything to us, talked on there phone and put there dog in the house . No appology nothing. Lucky noone got bit But i placed a complaint with the city that day and got there trailer removed from there property { not allowed to live in trailers here on residential propertys without permits}. Then had 2 German shephards charge us off leash as the owners said they were friendly { was fine if friendly my boy was 5 months old} and the male attacked him cost me 10 stitches at the vet under his eye. 
Most recently was 3 lil kids walking there lab or lab golden cross on a prong collar and they said he was friendly so figured we could pass fine but nope he came after us I had to seperate himoff of my dog cause the kids werent capable physically or mentally to deal with it. Then I get them sorted out and we are about 20 paces down the path to hear them scream he slipped his collar and was comming after us. he bit my girl { not serious that time thankfully} and again had to seperate alone. LOL, Big reason I dont agree with kids walking dogs without an adult, mentally they dont know how to think in situations like that. those were just a few of the times we have had issues here lol.


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## minnieme (Jul 6, 2011)

Julee said:


> I love the *idea* of dog parks. I hate how they're run in reality.
> I think that dogs should have to be tested, proof of vaccines, etc and recieve a permit to be allowed into the park. I realize this is completely far fetched and will never actually happen, but if I was going to found a dog park, this is how I would require it be run.


Perhaps this is why I like the dog parks here... All of those things are strictly enforced. You can get a pretty hefty ticket for having an a.) aggressive dog in a dog park, b.) no vaccines, c.) and no permit. There are rangers who actually go around and check the licensing (which contains vx info) and monitor the behavior ... and I think it makes the parks around here great. Most of them are also 20+ acres so there's a lot of room to spread out.

With that said, having Maya has made me realize how much of a dog park dog Minnie ISN'T. Her play is too rough and I don't know that it's fixable. I work on it every day with her and Maya....but she has a really tough time toning it down and reading body language. Maya, on the other hand, is stellar. Barely a year old and a great recall and was well socialized. I can't wait to take her to the dog park on an off day. I would NEVER take my dogs at peak hours -- I am too afraid of other people's dogs... and know one misstep could scar them forever. 

With that said though, I do take my chances on rare occasions (to the bigger ones) just so they can have somewhere new to sniff and run.


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