# Humane Society Euthanization Rate up to 70%



## kevin bradley (Aug 9, 2009)

Just heard it on the News. Not sure of the breakout between Dogs and Cats. 

Alarming. I don't want to start a debate on whether or not everyone should go to a shelter(though I believe most should).... but I hope everyone at least considers this number before making their decision.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

when we live in bad times, the animals go first.

not a pretty picture of humans.


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## Donna Little (May 31, 2011)

I do rescue in Ga and our local kill rate is around 85% at any given time. There are so many backyard Pit breeders in my area that it makes me sick. The AC up the street from me kills about 70 to 90 Pits or Pit mixes a week. It's very sad.
One of my FB friends rescues in California and she told me that the vast majority of dogs killed in ACs there are Chihuahuas because of the Paris Hilton influence and Beverly Hills Chihuahua movies. She posted for the Orange Co AC one day and there were 90 Chi or Chi mixes in there. Completely insane.


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## kevin bradley (Aug 9, 2009)

I tell you, human beings need to take a long hard look in the mirror. 

I'm willing to accept that the CAT problem is probably out of control and not completely driven by us. Dogs?... no way. There aren't stray Dogs all over the place breeding, at least not in my area. Its being driven by human beings. It could literally be fixed TOMMORROW. 

Sickening.


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## Unosmom (May 3, 2009)

Humane society has been associated with PETA for a long time, so I'm not surprised in the least bit


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## Donna Little (May 31, 2011)

All of the kill shelters in my area are government run and really sadly have no choice but to euthanize as many as they do. The animals just pour in faster than they could begin to adopt out. And due to the fact that parvo is so common here at least half of the puppies that come through the doors end up dying anyway. Many people find their animals to be totally disposable and if they become an inconvenience they get rid of them in one horrible way or another. And the people that show up at the humane society (where I volunteer) looking to dump their 3rd and 4th unwanted litter of kittens or puppies (but refuse to get their pet spayed) need to have their butts kicked.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

maybe fewer people would take their animals to a kill shelter if they knew they'd be going to doggie/kittie heaven too.


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## Donna Little (May 31, 2011)

Sadly not really. When they bring them in the door most are told their beloved baby will likely die and they usually reply with, "Well, there's nothing I can do about that." 
I pulled a Dashchund puppy from there one day that was being dumped because they had to move and couldn't take it with them. That one always gets me. I mean this pup was 4 mos old so they'd had it 2 mos. Who doesn't know they'll be moving soon? And why would you not try to find a place that would accept a small dog? 
Anyhow, they had all the pup's paperwork where they'd bought it from the mall petstore. They purchased it on a credit card and were still making payments! Some people never cease to amaze me....


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## SerenityFL (Sep 28, 2010)

kevin bradley said:


> Just heard it on the News. Not sure of the breakout between Dogs and Cats.
> 
> Alarming. I don't want to start a debate on whether or not everyone should go to a shelter(though I believe most should).... but *I hope everyone at least considers this number before making their decision*.


Could not possibly agree with you more.


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## SerenityFL (Sep 28, 2010)

magicre said:


> maybe fewer people would take their animals to a kill shelter if they knew they'd be going to doggie/kittie heaven too.


Unfortunately, I think many of them simply do not care.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

SerenityFL said:


> Unfortunately, I think many of them simply do not care.


unfortunately, i think you are right; hence the numbers.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

If you HAVE to buy a dog, don't buy it from a pet store. 100 percent of them get their dogs from puppy mills. Don't buy it from the paper either. Nor from the WalMart parking lot. Or off craigslist. If you do, you continue to support the breeding, abandonment, and death of millions of dogs.

If you HAVE to buy a dog from a breeder, don't let that breeder tell you directions to his/her house are complicated and he/she will meet you at WalMart to transfer the puppy. I don't care how fancy and great their website is. That's the whole plan, to dupe idiots into thinking they know how wonderful they are from a website.

If you HAVE to buy a dog, don't pay $1000 for a shi-poo or a pugipoo or whatever they call them. It's another word for MUTT and only idiots open their wallets to that tune for a mutt who was bred AT A PUPPY MILL!

There is a reason rescue dogs are shipped from south to north and not the other way around. Look at the laws. We need to change the laws.


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## sozzle (May 18, 2011)

I don't think we have puppy mills here but certainly those mixes mentioned are very popular. My friend has a cavoodle bought from a breeder and there are many many others in one of my local pet shops priced very highly. Overpriced in my opinion considering they are not purebred dogs. Some of them are very cute though - which I suppose is why they are so popular.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

You must have laws against puppy mills. They are huge moneymakers here, especially for farmers. In the 30s depression, the government actually encouraged farmers to switch their crops to dogs. And very little regulation on the conditions. What laws we do have are often not enforced. I don't know why people don't seem to know, as they look at that cute puppy - where are the mothers, and what conditions they are living under?

I knew that even at a very young age, long long before we used the word "puppy mills." I used to look at the puppies in the mall pet store when i was about seven and tell my mother it was not right, what they were doing to the dogs. Why are people so oblivious?? 

and yes, they are very cute. Too bad puppies aren't hideous looking before they are about 3.


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## RachelsaurusRexU (Sep 4, 2010)

xellil said:


> You must have laws against puppy mills. They are huge moneymakers here, especially for farmers. In the 30s depression, the government actually encouraged farmers to switch their crops to dogs. And very little regulation on the conditions. What laws we do have are often not enforced. I don't know why people don't seem to know, as they look at that cute puppy - where are the mothers, and what conditions they are living under?
> 
> I knew that even at a very young age, long long before we used the word "puppy mills." I used to look at the puppies in the mall pet store when i was about seven and tell my mother it was not right, what they were doing to the dogs. Why are people so oblivious??
> 
> and yes, they are very cute. Too bad puppies aren't hideous looking before they are about 3.


People aren't oblivious, they just don't give a hoot. How many times have puppy mills been exposed on the news stations over the past several years? People know. They just turn a blind eye and totally overlook the horrendous facts during their impulse buys. Sadly, a ton of those pups end up in the shelter system, often with severe behavioral and medical issues. There's a huge pet store in my town and we often chip roamers (mostly little "designer breeds") and track them back to that store. We also get a ton from the pet store in the mall the next town over. Sadly, the vast majority of the dogs we end up with (probably 98% of them we have because they were dumped on the streets, tied to fences or otherwise abandoned) are pits and pit mixes. We can barely keep up.

ETA: I EFFING HATE PEOPLE SO MUCH.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

People in general just don't give a damn. 

Am I against breeding? NO, as long as people are educated and ethical to the max. 

Do I support rescue efforts? ABSOLUTELY. I think its IMPERATIVE to anyone who considers themselves an animal lover. If EVERY single dog/cat owner gave a few hours of their time or a little money on a regular basis, there wouldn't be the tragedy we see in shelters today. 

Here's an extremely interesting read, that I found very thought provoking. Its long, but totally worth the time. 

Good Homes Need Not Apply | Life With Dogs


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## sozzle (May 18, 2011)

I must say I had never heard of puppy mills until 2 or 3 years ago when I saw a documentary from the USA about how widespread it was and the terrible conditions the animals were living in. Some of them having never been out of their cages and therefore having deformed feet and all the dreadful health problems that entailed. Females being bred from over and over with no veterinary health checks. Shocking. It could of course happen here but being a small population those things would be harder to hide maybe? certainly never heard about it in the media as yet. Mind you saying that there are many irresponsible dog and cat owners who just don't give a stuff about animal welfare.
Last year a man was sentenced to 7 months in jail for feeding live kittens to his pitbull and in 2009 the NZ courts handed out its longest sentence for animal cruelty to a 19 year old male (12 months - not long enough) for killing his friend's 18 month old JRT. I won't go into details of what he did as it's really upsetting. Oh and he's been banned from owning an animal for 10 years - how about life? Bloody scumbags, I just hope their parents are proud of them!!
Right now I've typed that I am going to give my hound a big kiss and hug and have a glass of wine - after all it is Friday night here!


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## swolek (Mar 31, 2011)

DaneMama said:


> People in general just don't give a damn.
> 
> Am I against breeding? NO, as long as people are educated and ethical to the max.
> 
> ...


Interesting read.

It reminded me of when we were looking to get a second Cocker. A shelter (with a high kill rate) in El Paso had a pair of purebred Cockers in a kennel. Sweet dogs, though a bit overwhelmed. There was also a sign saying "Cocker Spaniels may not be adopted to any families with children under 10". My sister was 6 at the time.

I always think of those two Cockers and I feel horrible knowing they were probably euthanized. I wonder just how many Cockers were killed there (and in other shelters with those types of policies) for such a ridiculous reason? It makes me want to cry .

Luckily, my sister survived growing up with such a vicious breed . She was almost licked and snuggled to death on multiple occasions, though.

Oh, and don't get me started on the stupid rule so many rescues have..."must have a fenced yard". We have a big yard but no, it's not fenced. That doesn't mean our dogs don't get exercised nor does it mean they roam around without leashes! They have long leads for playing outside and go on walks, hiking trips, and to the park. Sophie does K9 nose work and we have a small agility course set up in the backyard. But we'd be denied from many rescues just because we don't have a fence...


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Its counter intuitive to me the absurd rules that some rescue groups enforce. They really are telling the good homes to not even apply. Just saddens me....


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## RaisingWolves (Mar 19, 2011)

DaneMama said:


> Its counter intuitive to me the absurd rules that some rescue groups enforce. They really are telling the good homes to not even apply. Just saddens me....


Exactly! 
I worked with boxer rescue and saw it first hand. Sad thing is....based on their guidelines I wouldn't qualify for a rescue. 
My sister's friend lost their 13 year old boxer (raised from a puppy, lived in one loving home his entire life) was turned down by our local rescue. Geez, if a person who is fanatic about the breed can't adopt...who can? It's insane if you ask me.
I would never apply for rescue for this reason.

Peta and the Humane Society....
http://petakillsanimals.com/


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## chowder (Sep 7, 2008)

North Carolina is notorious for puppy mills and dog fighting. Just this week alone we had two articles in our news....they closed down one puppy mill and locked up one dog fighter. And this was just in my town, not even the rest of the state!!


More than 60 dogs seized from Raleigh home :: WRAL.com

Dog-fighting 'legend' gets maximum of five years :: WRAL.com

However, the good news is that we have a huge amount of dedicated rescue groups here. I was checking out a Rotti rescue group last night and if I wasn't in school full time starting next week, I'd have to go and get me one of theirs! They have some that have been in foster care for 18 months or more. Very dedicated people. North Carolina Rottweiler Rescue 

Our rescue groups are not that strict on guidelines. When we got Shade and Rocky we had to fill out long applications but there was no home visit or anything like that. 

As soon as I graduate and get employed, we may have to add a rescue rotti to the mix! After all, I have two freezers now!


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## SerenityFL (Sep 28, 2010)

When you spend an enormous amount of time, effort and money volunteering for a rescue, the numbers can become overwhelming. You never seem to get ahead. There's always "kitten season" with more kittens than can ever be adopted, there's dogs thrown out of cars, (how do you think I got my two hoodlums?), there's dogs and cats left outside to fend for themselves, there's the mindset by MANY people that animals are not companions but objects, there are people who come in to adopt a pet not knowing a whole lot about the pet but get them because their child so desperately wants that little dog or cat, please can they have them, there's people who tie their dogs in the yard because they are too lazy to exercise them, there's people who have terrible neighbors who do unmentionable things to animals because Fluffy peed in their garden or Rover was barking, there's disturbed people who prey on animals allowed outside, (Miami cat killer, a 19 year old kid who stole cats from people and tortured them, killing them in a most horrific way), there's people who refuse to spay or neuter their pets causing MORE animals that need homes, there's people who declaw their cats and then make them live outside or have them live outside part of the time, there's people who get pets because they are cute but when the pet grows up, and is not cute anymore, they don't want to be bothered....

The reasons for these questions and rules in adoption applications is because of the overwhelming number of people who are NOT responsible for their pets. Rescues do not know the people coming in to adopt. They don't want repeat problems. They want to ensure that the animal is going to a high quality home where the animal will be properly cared for, loved and will be with that family until its death, hopefully in old age.

Too many times the excuse is, "I'm moving, I can't take my pet", "I'm having a baby, I can't have my pet anymore", "I suddenly, after 30 years of having no allergies, have allergies and can no longer have my pet", "I can't afford to take care of my pet", "My mother, sister, brother, girlfriend, husband, etc does not like my pet and I can no longer have my pet", the list of excuses goes on and on and on.

They want a fenced yard because not everyone who gets a pet is like the people on this board. They ask for cats to be indoors because cats are hit by cars, stolen by people to keep, stolen by people to use as bait, stolen by people for their own, sick, twisted and demented pleasures, tortured by idiots, etc. They do a home check because they want to make sure that the home is a good place for the pet. If someone wants to adopt a Great Dane, maybe they shouldn't be living in a studio apartment. They want the approval from the manager of the apartment so that they don't have to hear, "I got this dog from you but my manager said I can't have it". 

They are strict for a reason. I'm sure that if someone wanted to adopt through a rescue and everything else checked out but the fenced yard, the people could sit down and talk to the rescue. Rescues are run by human beings. They have feelings and can make judgement calls based on the person they are interviewing. It HAS happened that pets are adopted out even though they might not meet every single criteria because they can prove that the animal will be well taken care of, in some way that appeases the rescuer.

Dogs and cats are adopted from shelters all the time and, unfortunately, shortly thereafter, are either abandoned somewhere or brought back to the shelter. It's not an isolated case here and there, it happens all the time.

The numbers are overwhelming. These rescues are simply trying to find forever homes so that they don't HAVE to worry about that animal anymore. They need to focus on the other 400 animals that are in need of help, that day.

It is disheartening to see people bashing on rescues and shelters like this. These people spend a considerable amount of their OWN time, their OWN money, their OWN gas trying to get animals rescued, adopted, do trap and release, educate the public, hold fund raisers, get the word out about their rescue and the animals they have available, etc. To paint them with a general brush that they are too militant is entirely unfair.

I have worked very closely with a rescue, (not being part of the rescue), and I have seen, for myself, the insane amount of work this person goes through. This person has no life. Her life is going to work and when not at work, she's doing something for the rescue. It is non stop. She spends a lot of her own money. She is constantly trying to network. She is constantly coming up with new ideas. 

And truth be told, when I lived in the Everglades and saved a whole bunch of cats, she helped me find homes for them through her rescue. She was FAR MORE lenient than I was even with all of their "strict" rules.

Yes, there are thousands of people who love animals and when they adopt them try to do their best by them but you have got to remember that we would not have this fricken overpopulation problem if everyone was like that. The fact of the matter is, there are many more people in this country who do not view animals the same way we do. They do not take the time with their pets like they should. They do not walk their dogs, spend time with their dogs, take their dogs places. They throw open the door and let kitty out and if kitty comes back every once in awhile, that's good enough for them. They view dogs as "outside" creatures only and never let them in the house to be with the family. Pets are not living, breathing creatures to them but purse accessories, ego boosters and toys for the time being. It happens way too much, way too often, and that is why we have so many animals in rescues and shelters and out on the streets. 

You do that for awhile, you'll start to understand the reason for those rules.


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## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

I think our Humane Society is NOT that strict on home conditions but the local no kill rescues are overkill. Our shelters are of course usually full especially during kitten season and a lot of the older cats get put down to make room which breaks my heart. 

At one point I tried to adopt a 1.5 year old Italian greyhound before I got Tess and was told no, they will not adopt her out to a home with bigger dogs because of the risk of leg breaks. Keep in mind that my sheltie is 18lb... I talked to them and explained that I have knowledge of the breed, a fenced home, time to dedicate to training, exercise etc but it was a firm no. 

I got Tess and my sheltie is so gentle with her.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Serenity- again I think you've missed my point (you seem to misunderstand me a lot). I've worked with rescue organizations for years. I've personally been the one to do homechecks to make sure the home is suitable. I understand where you're coming from, and mostly this has to do with shelters and private rescue groups that make it harder to rescue one of their animals than buying a house. Ive had people turn away from private rescue groups because their standards and rules are so strict and specific. How is that in any way productive? 

I have an aquaintance that runs a private rescue group in Denver. She's actually taken dogs back from their original adoptive homes (after years of living at their adoptive home) for their nails being long or their coat in need of a brushing. This woman has such high standards that she can't place dogs and cats...at all. She has more than she knows what to do with. Shes also stolen dogs off the street. If she sees a dog running loose, catches it and it has a collar she will take it off because she believe that if a person let's their dog run loose they don't deserve one, sometimes dogs just get loose! It's people like this that irritate me. 

Am I saying throw all the standards and rules out for finding good homes? Hell no. Should rescues and shelters perhaps be a little more proactive with finding homes? Yes. 

My point is, if the kill rate is so damn high, doesn't it make more sense to be a tad more lenient so that these animals in shelters can have a slightly better chance at finding a home rather than just being PTS, without a chance? Personally I think an outside life for a cat, even if short because they get hit by a car or eaten by a fox is better than a life consisting of a few days in a tiny cage and then death by injection. Do I personally advocate letting cats outside? Nope, too dangerous....but so is life in a shelter that won't adopt cats out to people who want outside cats.


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## Donna Little (May 31, 2011)

Sorry this is a bit long but I couldn't help chiming in.

I've rescued and adopted out dogs for years and just like with anything there are good and bad people involved in rescue. Some are in it to make money and don't care where their rescues end up. And sometimes good people with misguided but good intentions become so overprotective they don't think any home will ever measure up. 
I have never gone by "set in stone" rules when I've done adoptions and take every animal or family on as an individual case. If I have a dog that is over the top hyper and a laid back couple with no fence wants it because it's just the cutest thing they've ever seen then I'm going to guide them toward a better choice. If I adopted the over the top hyper dog to the laid back couple it's just not going to be a good match, the dog will get returned, and they will be turned off to rescuing again in the future. Would I adopt a sweet little lap dog that wants nothing more than to cuddle while you watch a movie to the same couple with no fence? Absolutely. That's the beauty of fostering. Getting to know what an individual dog is like and what their needs are. I have adopted to all types of families, some with kids, with no kids, with fences and without, long time pet owners, and new pet owners. I also have no problem adopting small dogs to families with children BUT as I said, I take it case by case. If I have a Chihuahua that's happy go lucky and loves everyone and you have 3 kids for this guy to play with, fantastic. If you and your 3 kids want the Chihuahua though that has a history of being a fear biter, then no, I'm not sending it to live with you. I never want to place any dog in a home where I know I'm setting it up for failure. 
I pulled my little brindle Chihuahua out of animal control 6 yrs ago and back then she was the first brindle Chi I'd ever seen. I thought her fear aggression was probably just due to the stress of the shelter. I got her home and found that she's just got a nasty little temperament. I worked my butt off attempting to socialize her while she was up for adoption. EVERYONE wanted her because she was unusual looking. Even though I clearly stated she was a fear bite risk and that I would only place her in a home with experienced pet owners and no children, I didn't get ONE app on her where the people didn't have small kids or were first time pet owners. Not one. Why would you apply for a dog that I was telling you was a biter when you have a 2 yr old? And I'm sure some of the applicants bad mouthed me for not adopting to them but I had to do what I knew was right for everyone involved. Needless to say, she's lived here for the past 6 yrs, is still a total little shit to all strangers but we love her and she'll be here until she dies of old age. I have found over the years that you just must use common sense. 
Anyone that's never been involved in rescue should understand that some of us have just seen the worst that society has to offer. Which unfortunately makes some rescuers become jaded and tend to be over-protective of the animals in their care. I have never come to that point but I've also become so disillusioned with people that I've taken a break from rescue and have had no fosters of my own since the beginning of the year. (I am fostering one for the humane society.)
I managed the Petfinder site for my local animal control for 2 yrs and some of you guys would not believe the cruelty I've seen. Some days I'd come home and just want to crawl in a hole. I own 9 dogs, 5 of which came from THAT facility. They were all abandoned for one reason or another or picked up as strays and all had issues when they came to me. I adore every one of them and can't imagine dumping them in that hell hole. Because most people involved in rescue see the same cruelty I've seen it does tend to make you start to think there are worse things than death by euthanasia. Well, in fact I know there are. Although I don't agree with many rescue's strict rules I do understand how some have come to that place. 
My point in this is to say, if any of you are considering adopting a rescue and you have a bad experience with one, don't judge all rescues on that one experience but please try again. I myself am opposed to vaccinating after a dog has had its puppy series so would likely be turned down by many rescues but that wouldn't stop me from going somewhere else and saving a life. Rescue has always been my passion and there are so many in need so please keep an open mind next time you're looking for that perfect new family member. I have a beautiful little family full of rescues and they're all special in their own way and knowing I saved their lives is a feeling I can't describe. If you've never rescued, consider giving it a try. If you have, then you know exactly what I mean....


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

natalie, i agree.....and serenity, i understand...

it gets to the point where the rescue person in charge just has way too many animals, not enough homes...and has to listen to the most inane excuses....

and natalie, there were times when we were told no.....US? are you serious? there was never a reason because we know our energy levels and we knew what we wanted...and still, we were told no....

sometimes, you get a well meaning person who becomes the big fish in a little pond...and then you have the person who is so afraid it's going to happen again, they don't want to adopt out...because maybe they are too close to the situation.

there is no such thing as a perfect home...and there are dogs who will come back, but performing due diligence is not the same as being dictatorial.....

it's a sad situation all the way around...from the animal found or turned in to the worker who is way too overworked....to the worker whose standards are so high no one could meet them to the person who suddenly discovered they have power....


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## SerenityFL (Sep 28, 2010)

DaneMama said:


> Serenity- again I think you've missed my point (you seem to misunderstand me a lot). I've worked with rescue organizations for years. I've personally been the one to do homechecks to make sure the home is suitable. I understand where you're coming from, and mostly this has to do with shelters and private rescue groups that make it harder to rescue one of their animals than buying a house. Ive had people turn away from private rescue groups because their standards and rules are so strict and specific. How is that in any way productive?
> 
> I have an aquaintance that runs a private rescue group in Denver. She's actually taken dogs back from their original adoptive homes (after years of living at their adoptive home) for their nails being long or their coat in need of a brushing. This woman has such high standards that she can't place dogs and cats...at all. She has more than she knows what to do with. Shes also stolen dogs off the street. If she sees a dog running loose, catches it and it has a collar she will take it off because she believe that if a person let's their dog run loose they don't deserve one, sometimes dogs just get loose! It's people like this that irritate me.
> 
> ...


That lady is not the epitome of rescue groups. What she does is actually criminal and one day she will be caught. 

Further, I was not just talking about your post.

Rescues are very proactive in trying to find homes. Again, the insane amounts of work that they put in to rescue is exhausting just listening to it. They are up day, night, wee hours of the morning, before work, after work, sometimes during work on a lunch break trying to find homes. They network. They hold adoption fairs. They send out flyers. They have competitions. They have booths at events for the public. They have websites and FB and Twitter and do what they can to educate the public. If they are not at work, they are at an event, or driving in their car to pick up a rescue or do a home visit or do a trap and release or do a leg of a journey to get a dog or cat to a new home or picking up animals that are returned, or going to the vet, or going to the pound and pulling an animal. Many of them have a lot of them in their own homes.

It's not, "Oh they are too strict", there's also the fact that some people are very particular, very strict, very determined to get ONLY one particular type of dog or cat. No, they don't want a black cat, those come with a history of myths that people still fricken believe. No, they don't want a tabby, everyone has a tabby, they want something "exotic" looking. No, they don't want that dog, they want ONLY this type of dog. No, they don't know a thing about a border collie, they live in an apartment, they want a border collie and then get upset with the rescue and their "strict" rules because they can't possibly understand why the rescue won't allow a border collie to go live with someone in an apartment. 

It's not just about saving the animals from being PTS. It's also about ensuring, to the best of their ability, that the animal has a QUALITY of life when they are adopted. What is the point of adopting an animal out if it's just going to suffer the rest of its life because it was chained up in the yard or didn't get the exercise it needed or was tossed outside because it scratched the couch....you and I will not agree on that one.


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## kevin bradley (Aug 9, 2009)

Nat,

I've always felt the same... rather to be a bit more lenient, roll the dice and at least give a few more a chance... but I've talked with many in our local rescues who view ANY risk that a Dog will end up in a bad situation as just out of the question and not worth it... 

But Serenity is right, this one is tough. I see both sides of it. Its got to be HELL on earth to do what these shelters have to do every day. Its an IMPOSSIBLE job to say the least. 

Like I said previously, I don't know HOW you fix the cat problem. We have feral cats all over the place in Southern Michigan...as I'm sure most communities do. 

Dogs? I maybe see a couple stray Dogs a month. MAYBE. So that tells me its not Dogs running rampant pro-creating. So how do all these unwanted Dogs end up in Shelters? Hmmmmm.... the lovely human beings who bring more and more into the world. 

I just don't get it. Every Dog I've ever owned.... it was just a given that the first thing you do is get them fixed. I can honestly say I've never once been responsible for bringing an extra Dog into the world. Cats?....regretably, I did allow one of our Cats to get pregnant once(she was a stray and I honestly thought she was fixed)....


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## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

I agree with rescues not adopting a dog that would be completely unsuitable to the family. I don't agree with them turning down a potentially great home that has done research on the personality and type of dog they want because of something minor, and trust me, that happens every day.

I also think that a cat is better off outside than put to sleep.. my black and white kitty I have was a street cat for 8 years. He had neighbours that put food out for him but he survived and is now in his forever home. If he had gone to the shelter, not been adopted and been PTS he would never have had that opportunity.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

SerenityFL said:


> That lady is not the epitome of rescue groups. What she does is actually criminal and one day she will be caught.
> 
> Further, I was not just talking about your post.
> 
> ...


i wish i could say that i found what you're saying to be true...so far, every single time we've had the opportunity to adopt, the first places we go are p.a.w.s and the spca in both my town and others.

we've walked away from all of them. we've even gone as far as driving a hundred miles to go see a dog that we thought would be appropriate for us.

first....get the breed right. not every dog is a pit/lab mix.
second....i understand they need to be fixed...even at three months....because you don't know me or trust me to do so. i get that.
third.....i have a fenced yard and i'm not adopting a bull mastiff, so what's the problem?
fourth.....it's none of your buiness whether or not i believe in vaccinations....that is hardly cruel and unusual punishment to have it done or not have it done.
five. if i want to, i will give my shih tzus military hair cuts (this got us turned down btw....for an adoption because we opted for crew cuts). we were told we were lazy because we didn't comb their hair.
in the meantime, my shih tzus never had an ear, eye, mouth, nose infections as they are prone to have.

i don't have good experiences and not just with one place....those who do know me know i take care of my dogs....like caty, hubby gets kicked out of bed not the dog. i spend thousands a year just so my dogs eat right. they get walked every day. and there are plenty of people just like me, whether they feed raw or kibble or whatever.

i understand they don't know me...but i will never understand what makes my house so unadoptable.

i guarantee you we will have to lie, the next time about what we feed our dogs..and we will have to buy some kibble, i bet, for the home visit...

unfortunately, no one can save them all...sometimes a merciful death is better than a worker whose heart might be in the right place, but would rather see the dog caged for months and never adopt it out....

some dogs are so abused, so neglected...that maybe just maybe...death is not the enemy.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

I'm just saying there should be a healthy middle ground when it comes to rescuing and placing animals so that they all have the best chance at getting a good home. Some rescue groups need to take a chill pill for finding homes and others need to be more strict IMO.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Alot of times the requirements they on the website will be waived if you talk to them. I have a fenced yard but it's not a six foot fence so I just got a big fat dog that couldnt' jump over it 

You need to check into your rescue too - some "rescuers" are actually hoarders who will NEVER place their dogs. I know because I am intimately acquainted with one, and have been trying to get her animals confiscated for years.

Just as a rescue checks you out, you should check them out. Where are the dogs kept? go meet the foster mom or dad. If they are boarded, go there. Sometimes rescue dogs live in really horrible conditions. 

A good rescue will not stop an adoption because of a haircut, or what people feed their dogs. The people who do that have other issues. If people dont' want to adopt a dog out, they can always find a reason.


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## SerenityFL (Sep 28, 2010)

magicre said:


> i wish i could say that i found what you're saying to be true...so far, every single time we've had the opportunity to adopt, the first places we go are p.a.w.s and the spca in both my town and others.
> 
> we've walked away from all of them. we've even gone as far as driving a hundred miles to go see a dog that we thought would be appropriate for us.
> 
> ...


I don't know a whole lot about SPCA and PAWS and their rules. I do know about rescues. I work closely with rescues. My fricken website is to help rescues. They do MUCH more than just cage an animal. They foster the animals themselves, if they have room, or work tirelessly to find fosters. From there, they work tirelessly to find a permanent home for the animal(s). They do more than come to work and clean cages, feed animals, in some cases do play times with the animals and then have them PTS.

I did volunteer at the shelter when I lived in Dallas for a period of four months. They did not want to have to PTS those animals. They kept animals there as long as they could. I saw dogs in there that were there for well over a year. Not every shelter turns around and euthanizes the animals the minute you walk out the door back to your car. (This may be the case with some Animal Control but again, they only have so much room and are overwhelmed by the volume of animals brought in or found on the streets by officers.) 

This shelter had play times with dogs, (that was my volunteer job as well as some cleaning), and did everything they could to match people up with the right animal. Some dogs didn't like guys with hats. Some dogs didn't like men at all. Some dogs didn't do well with kids. Why would you send a dog home to a house full of kids or with males if the dog does not do well in that environment. As was said, they do everything they can to set the pet up for success, not failure. No one wants to see that dog or cat returned.

On the flip side, in Miami HSUS, all you had to do was prove you were 18, were allowed to have a pet where you lived and you were given the pet. And guess what? Miami has a HIGH rate of animals abandoned, brought back to the shelter, used for dog fighting bait, abused, neglected, tortured, left outside all the time, etc.

Rescues are more strict and yes, they have rules. You know these rules when you apply. I cannot speak for why you or anyone else was rejected for the animal you were trying to adopt because I was not there. Apparently there was something they didn't like. I know more about you than a rescue does and I know that you are very good to your dogs but the rescue does not. The rescue can only go by what they see in the short time they get to know you. 

They have been fooled many times before and the more they are fooled, the more strict they get, the less leniency they have and the harder it can be for someone legit to adopt. I get that. But I also get WHY they do that. 

If there was a dog that I really, really wanted and I was denied, the first thing I would ask the rescue is how I could volunteer. How can I do something for the rescue, spend time with them so that they get to know who I am, truly, as a person. Or donate items or money on a regular basis. Or do something to show them that a) I really want that animal and b) I have a reason for getting my dogs military hair cuts. 

Are there people who work in rescue who are over the top? Absolutely. Just like anything in life, you will always have extremists on one end or the other. But, it is not fair to paint them all that way. There IS a reason for the rules they have in place. These people have seen more than we can ever imagine or dream of seeing. If they get a little protective of the animals, how is that a bad thing?

As it stands, I don't have to go to a shelter or rescue...all the animals I have right now were dumped off by someone, left to fend for themselves and an ensured early death; not a humane way of dying, either. Domesticated cats and dogs do. not. survive. in the Everglades. In those cases, I would rather people take them to the pound to be PTS than have them dumped off in an area they don't know to be slaughtered by another animal later, whether that be gator, snake, wolf, coyote, human, etc.

You're right, no one can save them all. But people out there do everything they can do to save as many as possible. Their efforts should be applauded, not disrespected because it's not done how we think it should be done.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

ya know, serenity...it's a shame there are those who give good people bad names....

but the reality is they do.

whyever would i need a six foot fence to save a small dog...who, at his peak, couldn't reach six feet....that was from....i think it was called last chance out in lynnwood, wa....i might have the name wrong. they are a private concern, no kill and not the spca.

it's not limited to wa. state either. i have had the same issues in philly...where we built a fence around the pool so the dogs, when they would go outside with their own doggie door would by pass...but we were told the fence wasn't high enough then either. these were shih tzus and lhasas and mixed breeds...ten of which we rescued from private concerns...and i'm talking about private individuals....not groups...but i missed out on a poor little elderly lhasa....because my four foot fence wasn't high enough?

i've met more of these types of people than i have met the type of people you deal with. and it's a shame....because i'm done rescuing....that's all i've done for 25 years.....

if i ever get another dog, it will be from a breeder....a reputable breeder....because that's how done i am with rescue organisations.

i don't need the perfect dog.....g'd knows bubba is far from perfect....and i gladly spent the money to make him whole again.

i can't handle the attitude anymore....especially once the worker has seen my home and all the dog beds and everything is about the dogs....we do without for our dogs.....once you visit me and talk to me....there is no reason to deny me. and the poor little rescue is still in a cage.


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## RaisingWolves (Mar 19, 2011)

DaneMama said:


> I'm just saying there should be a healthy middle ground when it comes to rescuing and placing animals so that they all have the best chance at getting a good home. Some rescue groups need to take a chill pill for finding homes and others need to be more strict IMO.


The problem with the stringent guidelines some purebred rescue groups have in place is- they send the average Joe straight to the newspaper/ BYB. Many, not all, rescue groups have a holier than thou attitude. Why would anyone subject themselves to that when you can buy a cute little purebred puppy for a $100 more with no questions asked? They are only harming the dogs in need of good homes. 
My brother is not the same dog owner I am, but he is not a bad dog owner. His pets are part of the family, fed a decent kibble, and are not running the neighborhood. He doesn't exercise his dogs like they should and he has limited funds for vet care. His dog had severe allergies and took it in once a year to get steroid treatment. I would never do that to one of my dogs. He has a limit to what he will spend. There are worse living conditions IMO. 
I spend a lot of money giving my dogs the best food and health care I can afford. He can't.

My sister's friend ending up adopting a boxer mix from a stray rescue with a reasonable adoption criteria. They asked a few questions, called the family's vet and the dog was approved. BTW, the only reason we can think they were turned down is because they are senior citizens. 
I would be turned down based on my zip code(yes, it's true) and I do not plan to neuter my male ever. Most rescues would not adopt to a home with an intact animal.


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## PDXdogmom (Jun 30, 2010)

Donna Little said:


> I do rescue in Ga and our local kill rate is around 85% at any given time. There are so many backyard Pit breeders in my area that it makes me sick. The AC up the street from me kills about 70 to 90 Pits or Pit mixes a week. It's very sad.
> One of my FB friends r*escues in California and she told me that the vast majority of dogs killed in ACs there are Chihuahuas because of the Paris Hilton influence and Beverly Hills Chihuahua movies.* She posted for the Orange Co AC one day and there were 90 Chi or Chi mixes in there. Completely insane.


Our Oregon Humane Society, based here in Portland, has taken quite a few of the Chihuahuas and Chihuahua mixes from California to save them from being euthanized.

This is the Oregon Human Society's statement regarding questions about "no kill":

_There are no time limits placed on how long an animal is available for adoption at the Oregon Humane Society. Animals available for adoption are never euthanized because of space limitations. OHS euthanizes only for significant health or behavior issues and does not take lightly the decision to end a life._


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## lauren43 (Feb 6, 2011)

chowder said:


> North Carolina is notorious for puppy mills and dog fighting. Just this week alone we had two articles in our news....they closed down one puppy mill and locked up one dog fighter. And this was just in my town, not even the rest of the state!!
> 
> 
> More than 60 dogs seized from Raleigh home :: WRAL.com
> ...


Yes NC is rough. The rescue my dog originally came from was J & J pet rescue in NC, they have a road near where they live and on any given day there will be puppies and dogs just dropped on the side of the road. Many of the pit mixes get sent north, Avery was one of them and I am so thankful for that!!!



sozzle said:


> I don't think we have puppy mills here but certainly those mixes mentioned are very popular. My friend has a cavoodle bought from a breeder and there are many many others in one of my local pet shops priced very highly. Overpriced in my opinion considering they are not purebred dogs. Some of them are very cute though - which I suppose is why they are so popular.


Puppy mills are not as common outside of the USA.



RachelsaurusRexU said:


> People aren't oblivious, they just don't give a hoot. How many times have puppy mills been exposed on the news stations over the past several years? People know. They just turn a blind eye and totally overlook the horrendous facts during their impulse buys. Sadly, a ton of those pups end up in the shelter system, often with severe behavioral and medical issues. There's a huge pet store in my town and we often chip roamers (mostly little "designer breeds") and track them back to that store. We also get a ton from the pet store in the mall the next town over. Sadly, the vast majority of the dogs we end up with (probably 98% of them we have because they were dumped on the streets, tied to fences or otherwise abandoned) are pits and pit mixes. We can barely keep up.
> 
> ETA: I EFFING HATE PEOPLE SO MUCH.


Although I agree that many many many ppl just don't care, there really are ppl out there oblivious to it. My sister was one of them, until I talked her ear off. My neighbors really have no idea whats going on, purchased a dog from a pet store only to return him two weeks later.



Donna Little said:


> I do rescue in Ga and our local kill rate is around 85% at any given time. There are so many backyard Pit breeders in my area that it makes me sick. The AC up the street from me kills about 70 to 90 Pits or Pit mixes a week. It's very sad.
> One of my FB friends rescues in California and she told me that the vast majority of dogs killed in ACs there are Chihuahuas because of the Paris Hilton influence and Beverly Hills Chihuahua movies. She posted for the Orange Co AC one day and there were 90 Chi or Chi mixes in there. Completely insane.


GA is a very very very hard place to pull animals from. I have volunteered for pit bull rescue for a year and a half and that seems to be the verdict, although it can be done. Ohio on the other hand seems to be easier and they seem to be overly crowded as well.


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## lauren43 (Feb 6, 2011)

One more thing. Rescues and shelters are two completely different animals.

Rescues (generally) are run completely by volunteers. They do not have a kennel (if they do I do not consider them a rescue) all their dogs/cats (whatever the case maybe) are in foster homes. Rescues generally have a very long application with lots of questions, many of them do home visits, many of them are also more easy going with things like fences. And like others have said, if you talk to them you can generally still adopt from them they will just find an animal better suited for your lifestyle.

Shelters on the other hand, generally have much short apps. Do you own your own home? Do you rent? Do you have a fence? Because they have too many animals to get into crazy detail, so these other items are more important to them. Many do not do home visits and if they do anything at all its likely a drive by. This is why the small things fences and whether or not you spay/neuter/vaccinate is so important to them. Just because the ppl on this forum can responsibly own an unaltered animal does not mean the general public can (clearly they can not or we wouldn't be having this discussion). Many shelters look for vac records to ensure you will take your dog to the vet when necessary, those of you here who don't vac do it for the right reasons, but the normal public that doesn't vac are usually the ppl that don't spend any money or time their animals, they are nothing more than property to them (like the kitchen table)...Finally if you don't have a fence, to a shelter that says...this dog has the chance of being tied outside the rest of his/her life.

I know I just made a ton of generalizations but the point being not all rescues/shelters are created equal some are better than others. I know rescues I would not recommend to others but I also know of some amazing ones too.


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## chowder (Sep 7, 2008)

magicre said:


> .but we were told the fence wasn't high enough then either. these were shih tzus and lhasas and mixed breeds...ten of which we rescued from private concerns...and i'm talking about private individuals....not groups...but i missed out on a poor little elderly lhasa....because my four foot fence wasn't high enough?
> 
> i can't handle the attitude anymore....especially once the worker has seen my home and all the dog beds and everything is about the dogs....we do without for our dogs.....once you visit me and talk to me....there is no reason to deny me. and the poor little rescue is still in a cage.


I just can't believe that attitude exists in rescue! Both Rocky and Shade came from two different rescues and neither one was a problem. We just told them we had a 4 ft chain link fence and that was enough for them. Neither even required a home visit. I actually had more questions asked by the show breeder when I bought my last chow then i did from the rescue organizations.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

chowder said:


> I just can't believe that attitude exists in rescue! Both Rocky and Shade came from two different rescues and neither one was a problem. We just told them we had a 4 ft chain link fence and that was enough for them. Neither even required a home visit. I actually had more questions asked by the show breeder when I bought my last chow then i did from the rescue organizations.


two different states. two different turn downs.

the four foot fence wasn't high enough because we had a pool. these dogs have no legs...they are shih tzus and lhasas....

lauren....you're right. i have found rescues to be far more dictatorial and shelters....the standard to which they hold an adopter is near impossible. 

seattle pug rescue....will never ever give me a dog because i raw feed......i would have to lie. i would have to lie about vaccinations.

i'll go to a breeder. i've had enough of all of them....dictating how i treat my dogs. i love dogs. it's people i can't stand.


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## swolek (Mar 31, 2011)

SerenityFL,

I figured I should respond since you seemed to be replying partially to my post (the yard thing).

I work with a rescue too. I foster dogs (and rabbits) for a private rescue that pulls dogs from high kill shelters in GA. We ask questions, we have an application, we do home checks if needed, etc. I understand why there are rules in place and also what hard work it is to do rescue work (since, again, I do it myself). So don't assume the people posting on this thread don't understand that . I also used to volunteer for a shelter in El Paso, TX (though I worked with cats, not dogs) so I know the differences between shelters and rescues.

However, I think some of these rescues are taking things way too far. Having a blanket rule of "must have a fenced yard" is ridiculous. Honestly, having a fenced yard doesn't even mean the dog is going to get exercise or attention. I've seen dogs left in fenced yards alone all day, dogs who became very fence aggressive, dogs who are let out into the yard _instead_ of actual walks and playtime... I think a rescue should simply ask the person what their plans are for exercise and potty breaks. But instead, people are getting instantly denied. And the no kids rule? Why ban Cockers from homes with kids but not, say, Springer Spaniels? They probably had an incident with a Cocker or copied an online list...but why not instead rely more on temperament tests and you know, the individual dog? There are many poorly bred Cockers out there that aren't good with kids. Same goes for most breeds, though.

I'm not saying rescues shouldn't have rules. I'm saying they shouldn't deny someone right away because, say, they mention plans to have a baby. Or they don't have a yard. Or they had a dog 15 years ago that wasn't neutered. Instead, they need to look at the whole picture instead of turning people away who could potentially provide a great home. Especially when so many animals are being put down or spending their whole lives in rescue.


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## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

I absolutely agree that rescue's behavior drives people towards backyard breeders and mill dogs. A BYB or mill dog is not going to do all these checks and questions. I agree some need to be done but when it comes to a rescue dog.. well.. they need a home, bad. The 'no lenience' attitude is rude, arrogant and off putting. And in the end just accomplishes exactly the opposite of what the rescue stands for.


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