# Is the dog size on the label really that important?



## ClicketySnap (Jun 18, 2012)

Naturally as a naive first-time dog owner I listened to anything the people at the pet store told me about my puppy's food. I have been under the impression that since my dog is just under 10 pounds, I must feed him small-breed dog food unless the brand has a toy-breed formula. Is this really the case? is the nutritional value of the various size-specific formulas really so different that the companies feel the need to be that specific in the first place? Would it be harmful to my dog if I fed him the "regular-size" dog food instead of a formula specific to his size? 

My dog is coming to maturity in a month or so and I decided to look into all the healthy possibilities for his adult food. I do intend to feed dry kibble with the occasional can of grain-free canned food mixed in. Please feel free to argue my decisions or my questions as necessary because I do want to make the best decisions possible for the pets that I have. They don't have the brain-power that I do to make these decisions about their nutrition.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

I think the biggest difference is in the size of the kibble. If you soak your food it shouldn't matter what size it is.

I think it's just another marketing campaign, and you are right not to believe the people at the pet store. Either they have an agenda or they are minimum wage workers with a script.


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## chowder (Sep 7, 2008)

It really is all just a marketing gimmick. I have two 90 pound dogs. When I fed them kibble, I also fed the exact same kibble to my son's 1 pound 8 week old Chihuahua puppy. It was a small bite adult formula grain free version and it worked great for the puppy. I never went by the what the package said, and the puppy's vet was fine with what the puppy was eating because it finally stopped having hypoglycemic episodes.

I agree that the size of the kibble is probably the only thing that is important to a tiny dog. If it is a huge piece of kibble they won't be able to chew it as well as a small bite version.


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## BeagleCountry (Jan 20, 2012)

The only difference between small dog and regular kibble is usually the size. Go to the website of any manufacture to compare the ingredients and guaranteed analysis of the foods in question. Keep in mind there is no perfect kibble. Some brands that have been recommended recently are Acana, Orijen, Earthborn, EVO, Innova Prime, Fromm, and Nutrisource. Brother's is also recommended but it is difficult to find and priced at $70. - $80. per bag. Avoid anything manufactured at a Diamond plant. A good place to start comparing foods is at Best Dry Grain Free Dog Foods

ETA: You may find the following discussion informative.
http://dogfoodchat.com/forum/dry-canned-dog-food/16258-best-dog-food-without-china-ingredients.html


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## ClicketySnap (Jun 18, 2012)

Thank you everyone. I have been going through different threads about top dog food picks etc. and have been checking the most common ones (the ones previously listed by BeagleCountry) with my local pet stores. So far the only one I know I can easily (and consistently) find is Innova Prime. I will definitely take that into consideration! It is also good to know that I don't need to be limited by brands that carry small-breed lines of product.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Oh, and don't buy and breed-specific food either  There is no such thing as a special chihuahua food even though they would love for us to think so.


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## SaharaNight Boxers (Jun 28, 2011)

Yeah definitely don't listen to pet store people. I watched one lady tell a customer by products were good and that they were the organs of the animal...:tape2: as far as small breed, normal, and large the only difference between large and normal is glucosamine and condroitin. As fas as small breed it might be more calorie dense but that's it.


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## Makovach (Jan 24, 2012)

I feel that everyone above is right. 

I work in a pet store, luckily, we are allowed to say how we personally feel about foods, labels and what not. I don't buy into the breed specific, nor the large, toy, small breed labels. Granted some large breed foods have higher glucosimine than the regular food of the same brand, but I would be more worried about what is in the food rather than the sales gimmick labels. The only rule they game me is I can not recommend a food that we do not sell in the store. Which isn't hard because kibble wise we have many high quality foods from Orijen, Acana and Evo to Blue Buffalo, Wellness and Earth born. I always recommend my person top three at various price levels and quality levels which are Orijen, Acana and Earthborn Grain free. Which one we look at varies on their budget. Variety of the brand depends on the dog. 

For example, There are people who come in to buy Science diet all the time. They are so worried about the age (under 1 year, 1-7 years and 7+ years) on the bag and what the food claims to support that they don't even look at the ingredients because their vet said its great food. When we go through the ingredients, 8 out of 10 people generally switch to something way more high quality and don't worry about the pretty bags and the marketing gimmicks they use, they look at the ingredients and the things that really matter.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Melissa, I wish I had met someone like you in a pet store almost any time in my life. Of course, I guess back then they didn't sell many/any good quality dog food.


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## Makovach (Jan 24, 2012)

xellil said:


> Melissa, I wish I had met someone like you in a pet store almost any time in my life. Of course, I guess back then they didn't sell many/any good quality dog food.


Awe thanks  
And of course the people I want to mention PMR to badly, I tell them if they want to look more into dog nutrition, to join DFC! lol. 

We are working on finding out which local vet is telling everyone to switch from other foods (high mid and lower quality) to Beneful by Purina! Its crazy!

Another thing I push is "Don't listen to me, look it up for yourself". 
Point being OP, its a good thing you are stopping listening to the people who tell you wrong and are looking into it for yourself!


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## ClicketySnap (Jun 18, 2012)

Lol I agree with wishing I met someone who voiced realistic opinions at the pet store! After I heard some information about one of my lizards that I knew to be false I stopped asking important questions to Petsmart employees. 

btw I did some snooping online for some other pet stores in my area and finally found a lot of the brands you guys mention so often!!! they are crazy expensive but my boyfriend assures me that it will fit into our new budget. I am excited to get Jax on a new brand because he doesn't seem to be much of a fan of Blue Buffalo. Not sure if it is just the chicken flavor of their small-breed puppy formula or what but he is hesitant to eat it unless I put gravy on it. 

Thanks again for all the advice.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

ClicketySnap said:


> Lol I agree with wishing I met someone who voiced realistic opinions at the pet store! After I heard some information about one of my lizards that I knew to be false I stopped asking important questions to Petsmart employees.
> 
> btw I did some snooping online for some other pet stores in my area and finally found a lot of the brands you guys mention so often!!! they are crazy expensive but my boyfriend assures me that it will fit into our new budget. I am excited to get Jax on a new brand because he doesn't seem to be much of a fan of Blue Buffalo. Not sure if it is just the chicken flavor of their small-breed puppy formula or what but he is hesitant to eat it unless I put gravy on it.
> 
> Thanks again for all the advice.


Where do you live? There are alot of people around here that rave about Victor - small plant, locally sourced, good ingredients and cheap. But it's not everywhere.


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## ClicketySnap (Jun 18, 2012)

I live in SE Alberta, Canada. I was lucky enough to grow up on a farm that raises hormone-free beef as well as free-run pigs and chickens, so I know the importance of non-industrial meat. Unfortunately the only "local" dog food company I found doesn't agree with most of the research I have been doing about dog food ingredients.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

If you have access to pasture raised meat, have you considered just feeding raw food?


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## ClicketySnap (Jun 18, 2012)

xellil said:


> If you have access to pasture raised meat, have you considered just feeding raw food?


I have. I didn't do much research on it at this point, but I did think about it. My parents give me my monthly meat needs for free, but if I ask for anything extra they would request that I get my own deep freezer and pay for a half a beef. If I had more than one dog (especially a bigger breed) I would reconsider feeding raw. But at this point in time it just wouldn't be economical for me.


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## SaharaNight Boxers (Jun 28, 2011)

If anything I think it'd be more economical now. It would definitely solve the problem of finding a kibble.


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## ClicketySnap (Jun 18, 2012)

In my current situation I do not have the space in my house for the deep freezer, and for the amount of raw meat my toy-sized puppy would eat, I would have a massive excess of pretty pricey meat products. I would pay less money per monthly budget for a big bag of kibble than I would for a raw diet. Maybe when I am not a full-time student and can supplement the monthly budget I can reconsider making room in our lifestyle for a raw canine diet. 

I understand the arguments for the raw diet, but my boyfriend is the one paying for everything while I am in school and so he has to be on board for it to happen. He is not on board with a raw diet at this time. I will work on it


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## DaViking (Sep 27, 2011)

ClicketySnap said:


> Naturally as a naive first-time dog owner I listened to anything the people at the pet store told me about my puppy's food. I have been under the impression that since my dog is just under 10 pounds, I must feed him small-breed dog food unless the brand has a toy-breed formula. Is this really the case? is the nutritional value of the various size-specific formulas really so different that the companies feel the need to be that specific in the first place? Would it be harmful to my dog if I fed him the "regular-size" dog food instead of a formula specific to his size?
> 
> My dog is coming to maturity in a month or so and I decided to look into all the healthy possibilities for his adult food. I do intend to feed dry kibble with the occasional can of grain-free canned food mixed in. Please feel free to argue my decisions or my questions as necessary because I do want to make the best decisions possible for the pets that I have. They don't have the brain-power that I do to make these decisions about their nutrition.


Hi and welcome :smile:

No you don't have to feed a special formula for small or toy breeds. The kibble size and/or it's density plays a role, not so much the ingredients, at least not to an extent where it makes much of a difference anyway. Ingredients can of course make a difference on an individual basis. Do you have a price range? You got some good suggestions already, here are a few more brands to look for. First Mate, Back To Basics, Native, Dr Tims, Go, Now, Horizon, NutriSource and Timberwolf.


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## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

I heard that Go! and Now! source from China.. but I don't know if that's true or not. I think they are another Canadian company?


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## DaViking (Sep 27, 2011)

Caty M said:


> I heard that Go! and Now! source from China.. but I don't know if that's true or not. I think they are another Canadian company?


If they source major ingredients from China I withdraw all my recommendations for them! That would be odd though since they brand themselves as ultra high quality with premium ingredients, dunno? If we'r talking about vitamin premixes I am personally not that concerned but I respect the views of those who are. Yes they are Canadian brands.


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## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

DaViking said:


> If they source major ingredients from China I withdraw all my recommendations for them! That would be odd though since they brand themselves as ultra high quality with premium ingredients, dunno? If we'r talking about vitamin premixes I am personally not that concerned but I respect the views of those who are. Yes they are Canadian brands.


Maybe I shall email the company about it. Again, I have no idea. I don't even know where I heard it, but I did from somewhere. It's good to know though.. some really big problems with China's quality control..


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## ClicketySnap (Jun 18, 2012)

it would be good to know where they source from because I know a pet store that carries them. I am going to try to get samples of several different kibbles because the size of it will help determine which I should purchase in the future.


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## Sapphire-Light (Aug 8, 2010)

It would depend on the preference of your dog too, some small dogs don't care too mush about the kibble size.

However it depends as well as the shape of the jaw and teeth.

For example a pug has mush force in the jaw than a chinese crested doe to the stronger jaws and face muscles, is very different from the slim pointy muzzle of the crested.

The longer and narrow the muzzle is, means that is going to have less strength on it.

With my toy poodle, he has a very long slim and delicate muzzle, and his teeth are smaller than my nails , so he has a very hard tiny chewing regular sized kibble and treats, as well things like raw carrots and to eat a single chicken feet he can take almost 10 minutes to chew it all.


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## ClicketySnap (Jun 18, 2012)

I got a total of six sample bags of kibble today, including freebie ones that the pet store is pushing (yuck!). Just put a few pieces of each into my puppy's kennel to see what he would do. He is a huge fan of the really high quality ones (Orijen especially!) to the point that he buried the low-end ones under his blankie and gobbled up the high-end ones. he even licked the blanket and kennel bars clean when he was done! kibble size seemed just fine for him; he broke the pieces in half a lot of the time and then chewed each half separately. 

low-end kibble is still buried under his blankie. ignorance is bliss apparently. looks like Orijen is the way he wants to go!


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## LindsayMaryland (Jan 4, 2012)

Bite size is just that, bite size. The formula is the same. I babysit two dogs that eat Ultra. One of them is a Collie (who is still a puppy) who eats the regular size bites and the other is a Chihuahua, who eats the small breed bites. I’ve checked the ingredients and they are the same. What I like about the Natural Balance foods is that they are for all ages so you don’t have to switch dogs when they come into “adulthood” and risk tummy upset and all those digestion issues.


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## Celt (Dec 27, 2010)

I, personally, don't see a reason to stick to "small breed" foods unless kibble size is an issue (and in some brands not even that is a real issue). When Scotty was a 2lb pipsqueak, he would crunch through the same kibble as our old golden retriever. Some dogs do have a size preference, others couldn't careless. I guess if you had a pup with a "weak" bite that had a hard time chewing the kibble then it might be better to feed smaller kibble (personally, I would still feed the larger to get their bite "stronger"). 

_The longer and narrow the muzzle is, means that is going to have less strength on it._
I can't say I agree with this. I have Italian greyhounds, can't get much narrower in the muzzle department than them, lol. Yet they can crunch through most things if they want. I use to get those big old knuckle bones for them, they'd were able to gnaw the rounded ends off pretty good (only part they could get a really good "grip" on). Of course, these guys also would jump up on the beds carrying those bones. Little suckers have rather good jaw strength on them.


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## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

Yeah, you'd be surprised what a tenacious iggy can chew. Mine eats racks of pork ribs, I'm sure any dog could eat large kibble if they wanted to. Unless of course there are teeth issues.


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## Sapphire-Light (Aug 8, 2010)

Celt said:


> _The longer and narrow the muzzle is, means that is going to have less strength on it._
> I can't say I agree with this. I have Italian greyhounds, can't get much narrower in the muzzle department than them, lol. Yet they can crunch through most things if they want. I use to get those big old knuckle bones for them, they'd were able to gnaw the rounded ends off pretty good (only part they could get a really good "grip" on). Of course, these guys also would jump up on the beds carrying those bones. Little suckers have rather good jaw strength on them.


It would depend as well as the individual dog, just like some people I know and are mush older than me can hike for more than 3 hours straight in a mountain and I can't (because of an enlarged hearth)

I have tried to give a normal sized dog cracker to Pompadour (cut in pieces) he tried to chew it but he couldn't do it  and he gave up grain-free lamb & sweet potato dog treats | Sojos as well other called hearths.


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