# Tiger the Great!



## BrownieM (Aug 30, 2010)

Tiger is now 10 months old and is halfway finished toward being a Champion. He has 7 points including a major. He needs 8 points including one more major. (15 points including two majors (3-5 point wins) make a Champion). 

He has been showing for one month, so I am pretty impressed with his success! He is just a baby. 

I took some photos from this weekend. Last weekend he got 4 points, including a major. This weekend the best he did was Reserve (so no point) but I am still proud of him. He shows in my hometown again next weekend. 

He is a real hair factory! The Primal his handler is feeding him is doing him well.


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## BrownieM (Aug 30, 2010)

More Mr. Tiger photos.
































I had his hips prelim'd (he's only 10 months) and they came back Good! He passed his CERF as well. I will wait for the rest of the testing until he is 24 months.


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## cprcheetah (Jul 14, 2010)

Congrats! He is stunning! He has awesome reach & drive. Love the pictures.


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

Congrats on all the success!


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## DoglovingSenior (Jun 26, 2011)

He is even more beautiful than he was in his last photos. Is that you with him in the last pic or his Handler? Congrats & may he finish his CH in record time!


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## BrownieM (Aug 30, 2010)

The last picture is of me with him!


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## SpooOwner (Oct 1, 2010)

Yay, Tiger! He looks happy in the ring, too.


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## BrownieM (Aug 30, 2010)

Tiger update!  He is now 11 months old and has 10 points toward his championship, including both majors. He needs five singles to finish. Fingers crossed he finishes in these next four weeks!


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## BrownieM (Aug 30, 2010)

Here are some NON-show photos of Tiger. He turns a year old in one month so he will be home to me regardless of whether his championship is finished or not because he will have to grow hair for the open trim.


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## BrownieM (Aug 30, 2010)

A few more photos.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

He is really stunning.


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## minnieme (Jul 6, 2011)

Awesome pics!! Just out of curiosity, do a lot of people often think your babies are all girls??? When people see Minnie, even if she's in her pink collar, people still think she's a boy... I'm guessing because she's so big and people equate that with masculinity. Just wondering. :smile:


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## BrownieM (Aug 30, 2010)

minnieme said:


> Awesome pics!! Just out of curiosity, do a lot of people often think your babies are all girls??? When people see Minnie, even if she's in her pink collar, people still think she's a boy... I'm guessing because she's so big and people equate that with masculinity. Just wondering. :smile:


Nope, Henry has never been called a girl, he is pretty masculine looking with a solid, muscular body. Millie is about 50/50 whether people call her a boy or a girl. Tiger is probably mistaken the most. Although, he is intact, so from behind...it is quite...obvious.  It will be extremely obvious when he is cut into the Continental trim, with so much of his back end shaved. He is white, has a very refined head, and is a very lean adolescent, and some people to equate a white poodle with being female, so he does get mistaken for a girl sometimes. But not by poodle people, because if you have him next to a bitch, it is pretty obvious he is a male.


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## BrownieM (Aug 30, 2010)

See how masculine Henry looks?


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## chowder (Sep 7, 2008)

He's quite the handsome fellow and really looks like he has a great personality! 

Just a question on showing, do you find any 'fondness' among the judges for one particular color over another? Is it harder to finish a white poodle over a red? (actually, I'm not even sure red is a poodle color now that I say it). 

Just wondering. With Chows, it's really hard to keep a black chow to stay solid black, and it's impossible to keep a cream chow to keep it's nose black so those are automatic faults that have to be 'covered' and taken into account. It's a lot easier to finish certain colors with Chows.


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## BrownieM (Aug 30, 2010)

chowder said:


> He's quite the handsome fellow and really looks like he has a great personality!
> 
> Just a question on showing, do you find any 'fondness' among the judges for one particular color over another? Is it harder to finish a white poodle over a red? (actually, I'm not even sure red is a poodle color now that I say it).
> 
> Just wondering. With Chows, it's really hard to keep a black chow to stay solid black, and it's impossible to keep a cream chow to keep it's nose black so those are automatic faults that have to be 'covered' and taken into account. It's a lot easier to finish certain colors with Chows.


There is definitely bias among judges regarding color. White and black are the most popular and the easiest to finish. Reds are the most difficult to finish because they simply do not have the conformation that the blacks and whites do. Red breeders are working hard to improve their conformation, but it is hard, the stereotypes are there in judge's minds, and the conformation simply has a while to go before it is ever on the same level as the blacks and whites. 

Blacks do fade a bit in poodles, but typically it won't happen until after they are already finished champions. A true inky black is much more rare in the USA than it is in Europe, because of so much breeding to white to broaden the gene pool (a good thing, IMO, color SHOULD be last). So, there is a bit of dying that occurs in the show ring for black dogs that are showing who have some gray or white hairs mixed in their coat. Same with the browns, etc. And black pigment on white or cream dogs can fade and I know that that is often covered up at shows. :/ :frown: 

Browns are difficult too. Not so much as the reds, but they too tend to have shorter faces with broader back skulls. If you look at photos of Millie and compare them to Tiger, you will see what I am saying. 

So, yes, it does often take quite a bit longer to finish a brown/cafe or red/apricot dog than a white or black dog. The colored dogs really have to win on type and personality, often. The other poodle colors are somewhere in between.


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## Donna Little (May 31, 2011)

I just want to know why you aren't on here every other day or so showing these babies off?! They are so gorgeous that if they were mine I would be making people look at their photos whether they wanted to or not. 
Love all of them!


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## chowder (Sep 7, 2008)

BrownieM said:


> There is definitely bias among judges regarding color. White and black are the most popular and the easiest to finish. Reds are the most difficult to finish because they simply do not have the conformation that the blacks and whites do. Red breeders are working hard to improve their conformation, but it is hard, the stereotypes are there in judge's minds, and the conformation simply has a while to go before it is ever on the same level as the blacks and whites.
> 
> Blacks do fade a bit in poodles, but typically it won't happen until after they are already finished champions. A true inky black is much more rare in the USA than it is in Europe, because of so much breeding to white to broaden the gene pool (a good thing, IMO, color SHOULD be last). So, there is a bit of dying that occurs in the show ring for black dogs that are showing who have some gray or white hairs mixed in their coat. Same with the browns, etc. And black pigment on white or cream dogs can fade and I know that that is often covered up at shows. :/ :frown:
> 
> ...


That's really interesting about the conformation actually being different in the different colors. I would think that all dogs from the same litter would come out with the same type of conformation, regardless of color. Or do white and black poodles only produce the same color? 

With chows you get almost any color combination with every litter. The breeder I got my black boy from is trying to specialize in cream chows now but it's still a gamble with every litter. The one that my black boy came from ended up with two black pups.


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## BrownieM (Aug 30, 2010)

chowder said:


> That's really interesting about the conformation actually being different in the different colors. I would think that all dogs from the same litter would come out with the same type of conformation, regardless of color. Or do white and black poodles only produce the same color?
> 
> With chows you get almost any color combination with every litter. The breeder I got my black boy from is trying to specialize in cream chows now but it's still a gamble with every litter. The one that my black boy came from ended up with two black pups.


White is typically not bred to any color other than white/cream or black spectrum (black, blue or silver). 

Black is bred to any color. Brown is typically not bred to white because it can cause the whites to have liver pigment and can have a very negative effect on the colored dog "holding" it's color. Reds and browns also are not bred together because the resulting offspring can end up with liver pigment (not desired in reds). 

With the exception of blacks (can be bred to any color), breeders typically only breed liver pointed to liver pointed (so...brown spectrum) and black pointed to black pointed (reds, apricots, blacks, blues, silvers, whites, creams). And, even within that, breeding a red to a white would likely cause the red color to fade out quickly, which is already a big problem in reds. 

Browns are typically only bred to brown or black. (Or black spectrum. A brown bred to a silver (black spectrum) would produce silver and silver beige (brown spectrum) puppies)

Breeding brown and red to blacks can improve conformation. Some breeders will do this. They will breed a red bitch to a black dog, keep the resulting offspring, breed to black again a few more times, and then breed that improved offspring (which would be black but carry the red gene) back to red to get the color again.

So, yes, within a litter the conformation will ideally be similar (though the larger the genetic diversity between the dogs bred, the greater variance you will see in conformation. This is why inbreeding/linebreeding is used. The narrower gene pool makes a litter more predictable because there are fewer genes to be "chosen".)

Typically a complete outcross breeding will be relatively diverse in what is produced.

But, because certain colors are not bred together, it becomes more complicated. And, let's say you were breeding reds (which remember can have heaver bone and heaver heads) to very nice and refined blacks to improve, for several generations. Well, as soon as you breed that red factored black to a red, the red genes which may include that heavier bone, will affect that litter again.


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## cprcheetah (Jul 14, 2010)

Congrats! He's so close to his championship! He is so stunning! I know for my sister her boy was more a 'cream' so a lot of judges passed him over, he was also more 'solid' and less refined than a lot of the dogs in the ring now, so he did well with judges who liked that look.


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## chowder (Sep 7, 2008)

BrownieM said:


> White is typically not bred to any color other than white/cream or black spectrum (black, blue or silver).
> 
> Black is bred to any color. Brown is typically not bred to white because it can cause the whites to have liver pigment and can have a very negative effect on the colored dog "holding" it's color. Reds and browns also are not bred together because the resulting offspring can end up with liver pigment (not desired in reds).
> 
> ...


Great explanation! This is why I ended up NOT getting into showing or breeding Chows and stayed with just raising and training them. You have to be totally dedicated to improving the breed. Then you have to learn all the show requirements on top of the genetics, and it's a full time job that takes a lot of resources. Standard poodles are lucky to have you !


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

I think what I notice most about Tiger (besides his awesome mane that is begging to head bang)....

Is that he always looks SO happy in his pics haha!


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## rannmiller (Jun 27, 2008)

Yowzers that is one gorgeous poodle! He looks like he's having a great time! Do you have any videos of him moving?


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## BrownieM (Aug 30, 2010)

Yippee!!! Tiger got a third 3 point major today! 

He now has 13 points including three majors. He needs two measly single points to be a CH! 

rannmiller - I don't have any videos of him moving. I have to stand back so far that he has no I idea I am there when I watch him show otherwise he behaves like a nut in the ring. Next Sunday I am going to watch him show in IL. I will try and see if I can get a video. 

His side picture is very impressive when he moves. His greatest and most unique assets are his head, his front assembly, and his large side picture when he moves. He has a lot of other very good aspects. His greatest fault is that he is a little wobbly in the rear when he moves. He is slow to mature and this will improve as he gets older, as his hocks tighten, and as fills out and evens out a little bit in length.

He is a lovely boy. He does have his faults, of course, but I believe that he has some very strong assets. A good front is hard to find in a standard poodle and his is great. So many poodles have steep shoulders and no forechest/prosternum.


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## BrownieM (Aug 30, 2010)

meggels said:


> I think what I notice most about Tiger (besides his awesome mane that is begging to head bang)....
> 
> Is that he always looks SO happy in his pics haha!


I just pictured Tiger walking around my house headbanging LOL!!!!


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## Janet At Nutro (Mar 11, 2011)

Tiger is just stunning. Congratulaions to you and Tiger.
What shampoo do you use to keep his coat so white?


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## BrownieM (Aug 30, 2010)

Janet At Nutro said:


> Tiger is just stunning. Congratulaions to you and Tiger.
> What shampoo do you use to keep his coat so white?


Tiger's coat is just that white!  For his weekly baths I shampoo him with Isle of Dogs Royal Jelly Shampoo and condition him with Isle of Dogs Light Management or Heavy Management (diluted) conditioner. 

Also, for his weekly baths, I use EZ Groom Crystal White enzymatic shampoo on the back of his front bracelets as he pees on them. :/ This enzymatically removes stains.

Occasionally I will use a whitening (bluing) shampoo on his entire coat- Les Pooch "Pooch Brite" shampoo. I don't do this often as I believe that this can be drying. Maybe once a month or so. (Which is not often when he gets bathed once weekly! :smile: )


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

your guys/gals make me want a poodle!!!


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## BrownieM (Aug 30, 2010)

Here are some photos of Tiger today!

By the way, Tiger is a NEW CHAMPION!

He finished his championship two weeks ago in Springfield, MO. He was just 2 days past his first birthday. Since he had just aged out of the puppy class, he was freshly cut into pattern. His handler chose the English Saddle trim over the Continental trim because the adjustment to a naked bum might have been a bit much for him to show well right away. 

I will post the NEW CHAMPION photos when I get his win photos in the mail!


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## BrownieM (Aug 30, 2010)

More T boy.


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## BrownieM (Aug 30, 2010)

Some show photos. Sorry if I have already posted these, I don't remember! The last one is one of his wins the one weekend that he was in adult trim. He won his championship the day after this photo. It shows his trim and him stacked up nicely, but his tail is not up in the photo, which drives me nuts!

His current trim is a little boxy as he was clipped tight to enhance his angles in the puppy trim. Now that he is in the English Saddle, he has some hair growing to do. Even though he is now a finished champion, I do plan to show him myself (if I can handle it!!!!!!!!) towards his Grand Championship.


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## BrownieM (Aug 30, 2010)

Oh, and Tiger ate pre-made raw the whole time he was with his handler. Now that he is home, prey model time WOOT WOOT!

Speaking of which, this week is the one year anniversary of my other two poodles being on a PMR diet!


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## Herzo (Feb 5, 2011)

He really is pretty. Good luck showing him yourself I think this would be fun but I know there is allot to learn. This was your first show dog right? I would think that he did very well doing it so quick.


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