# What to use for fibre?



## mederic24 (Nov 18, 2008)

I have been feeding my Golden Candidae for a number of years. She had a bad reaction to the change in formula by Candidae and I have decided to put her on California Natural for awhile. I noticed that the fibre is quite low and I could use some suggestions on what I should add to bring up the fibre while she is on CA Natural. Thanks folks.


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## BoxerMommie (Jun 26, 2008)

I use Yerba Prima psyllium that I get from Puritan Sale - Discount Priced Vitamins and Nutritional Supplements, visit Puritan.com - Puritans Pride. It's cheap (like 5 bucks) gluten free, sugar free, and doesn't give gas, doesn't give the runs or gas if you give too much, and works like a charm. My female gets constipation from her pain medication so she gets 3 tsp daily (she's 65 pounds) I just sprinkle on top of her food and viola, my male gets the runs sometimes as he has colitis and I'll give him 2-3 tsp and by his next bowel movement he's totally fine. GREAT stuff, was recommended to me by a biochemist and it's been fabulous. I get the Yerba Prima since it doesn't have sugar or gluten in it and is all natural. And the $5 can lasts me a good 2 months using it daily.

You can also use canned pumpkin however at over $1 per can you'll spend quite a bit more and if you give too much they can get the runs.


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## Catahoulagirl (Aug 22, 2008)

My dogs get a variety of fresh vegetables for fiber. I often roast sweet potatoes, crook necked squash, pumpkin, turnips and other root vegetables for the family and the dogs. The also eat broccoli and a variety of greens. I don't give much maybe a tablespoon or two of greens, 1/4 cup broccoli or a couple chunks of root vegi's. Poops stay nice and firm, don't have loose stools. I make sure to put vegi's off to the side for the dogs to make sure they are not seasoned.


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## techampion (Jul 31, 2008)

*Fiber source*

The easiest and cheapest would be frozen green beans.


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## BoxerMommie (Jun 26, 2008)

techampion said:


> The easiest and cheapest would be frozen green beans.


Cheapest is the psyllium actually. And it's really easy, I have a 1 tsp scoop in the container and just put 2 scoops in the AM and 1 in the PM. $5 and it lasts me at least 2 months probably closer to 3 and that's using it on my boy sometimes too and my girl daily. I think you'd spend more than $1.50 per month on green beans (although I've never priced frozen).


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## claybuster (Dec 18, 2008)

I think avoiding fiber is better for your dog than adding fiber.

Fiber is used in dog food to slow down all the non-species appropriate ingredients the dogs body attempts to rush out of the digestive system. The only benefit for included fiber in dogs foods is for the manufacturer, not your dog. Nobody would buy the products because they would cause constant diarrhea without the fiber. Diarrhea is an obsession of the dog food industry
and due to the large number of inappropriate ingredients found in dog food the industry has no choice but add fiber to make the products sellable. They (the industry) will strive to prevent diarrhea instead of offering more expensive ingredients that don't cause diarrhea like meats and fats. When the targeted nutrition is omnivore, you need fiber to slow it down from being rushed out of the system. When the targeted nutrition is carnivore, these ingredients are not rushed through the digestive system but rather move slowly like they should giving the dogs body time for natural and proper stool formation. Omnivore nutrition uses fiber to artificially create stools at the expense of your dogs health.

Charlie


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## mederic24 (Nov 18, 2008)

Thank you for your interesting post on fiber. Do you feed a raw diet? If not, may I ask what kibble that you use. Based on your post I would think that the California Natural with a lower number of ingredients and a lower fiber would be a good choice. I dont want to get in to the grain free food at this time. Thanks again


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## BoxerMommie (Jun 26, 2008)

claybuster said:


> I think avoiding fiber is better for your dog than adding fiber.
> 
> 
> Charlie


This only possibly holds true for a health dog. My female takes a medication that stops her up and therefore needs fiber ADDED to her diet in order for her to be able to go at all. So I warn people to be careful with advice if they have an ill animal, always make sure to consult your vet as well as a licensed canine nutrition, uh in real life, before making any major changes like that.


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## claybuster (Dec 18, 2008)

mederic24 said:


> Thank you for your interesting post on fiber. Do you feed a raw diet? If not, may I ask what kibble that you use. Based on your post I would think that the California Natural with a lower number of ingredients and a lower fiber would be a good choice. I dont want to get in to the grain free food at this time. Thanks again


Hello Mederic,
No, I don't feed a raw diet, but I clearly see the benefits. I fed kibble diets for a number of years, but six years ago I switched the food to Abady Classic
Granular and very pleased with the results. I feel, it is without question the best option out there outside of raw. It is probably the only carnivore targeted commercial feed available today in a dry form. Some talk a good game with the carnivore/raw marketing, but just look at the ingredients panel. Abady is about animal source proteins and NO reliance on gluten protein, it is avoided. The Abady research indicates fiber is in fact the direct connection to a whole host of problems found today especially when it comes to a the allergy prone dog.

From the article "How to Choose...", Abady website


> The way in which fiber creates a firm stool is by slowing the passage of the food through the large intestine (the colon). The colon is the organ in the body which absorbs moisture from the forming stool. The longer the food and fiber remain in the colon the drier the stool. It takes large volumes of expandable fibrous material to create firm stools artificially. *The only other way to create firm stools is by including large quantities of species-appropriate ingredients – that is the right way.* That is also the way that the Abady Company designs its products – another first in the industry.
> 
> Fibrous material speeds up the transit time of the food through the stomach and small intestine, diminishing the time the food ...


It is a lengthy article but well worth a read and there is fair amount of info about Fiber and the problems you can start to develop, A to Z, because of the fiber in the diet...along with plant matter. Plant matter should be avoided and also implicated in many problems today facing dogs. It’s all in the article and well worth a read.

http://therobertabadydogfoodcoltd.com/how_to_choose.htm


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## mederic24 (Nov 18, 2008)

I will check it out claybuster. Thanks again.


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## claybuster (Dec 18, 2008)

mederic24 said:


> I will check it out claybuster. Thanks again.


The section on fiber is toward the end and it starts with the heading 'How deficiencies come about'. Here's some more quotes:




> On a volumetric basis, beet pulp, tomato pomace, cellulose powder, cellulose or flour and other like ingredients when saturated with digestive tract fluids can expand by as much as 250%. It is this enormous volume of cellulose that causes damage. Beet pulp (and vegetable fiber) and like ingredients reverse the digestive processes and raise havoc with nutrient values – lowering them. They are not appropriate ingredients for the feeding of carnivores.


When you see a food like EVO listing Tomatoes as an ingredient, I wouldn't be thinking sun-ripe. I'm am thinking posh sounding name for the canning industry leftover called Tomato pomace and it is an expansion type fiber as explained in the above quote (grain fiber replaced with plant fiber/ don't be fooled with marketing tactics of some of these companies.



> Fiber can interfere with the absorption of iron (causing anemia). Iron is absorbed early in the digestive phase and the speeding up of the transit time of the food through the upper digestive tract may limit its absorption. In addition, binders in some fibers link chemically with a number of vitally needed minerals; including calcium, zinc, and manganese and may carry them out of the body. This can be serious for a number of reasons. ...





> Allergies are one of the great problems facing dogs today. They are caused entirely by commercial diets. While dogs are allergic to some certain grains, particularly the ones that are genetically engineered and to gluten (the protein of grain), the great majority of allergies are caused by the high volume of fibrous material included in dog foods – this is how they come about. *Don’t expect your veterinarian to be aware of this connection. It will be denied by his or her nutritional advisors, the manufacturers of omnivore-targeted, high fiber foods which they promote and sell*.


Boxer Mommie has some good advice, always check with your vet. But then again, when they try to tell you a proposition your dog is really an omnivore and we sell this food at our office, stop for a second and think. Some of the foods they sell WILL keep you coming back to the office. The best way to avoid the Vet is feed species-appropriate and you won't be sending their kids to college like some folks with the constant office visits.


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

CHarlie,
Great post. I just have one little issue with what you said. I THINK if a dog food company uses tomato pumace, they must call it that. They can't call it tomatoes.

*ETA:* Neither product is appropriate in a dog's diet.


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

BoxerMommie said:


> always make sure to consult your vet as well as a licensed canine nutrition, uh in real life, before making any major changes like that.


I think the last person you would want to consult on nutrition is your vet. I don't have a lot more faith in "canine nutritionists" either.


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## claybuster (Dec 18, 2008)

RawFedDogs said:


> CHarlie,
> Great post. I just have one little issue with what you said. I THINK if a dog food company uses tomato pumace, they must call it that. They can't call it tomatoes.
> 
> *ETA:* Neither product is appropriate in a dog's diet.


Yea, I know what you mean, but I wonder how much leeway the law gives them in that area. Either way, tomatoes or tomato pomace, once it ends up dehydrated and in the kibble most likely yields similar results, expansion type fiber and not a great ingredient IMO. Glad you liked that post! 

I think one area people start think it is not a big deal is when they 2.5, 3 or 4% innocent fiber numbers and think not a big deal. It's a whole new ball game hydrated in the stomach when the kibble starts to expand. Those numbers will actually translate in to numbers much higher when hydrated and I believe it is an area where you find a lot of deception in those innocent looking numbers.


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