# skipping pork and jumping into beef



## Elliehanna (Jan 16, 2012)

due to Goren's weight being horrible I am taking Kady up on the suggestion to get him on beef as fast as possible. I have my FIL going to the butcher today to get me beef heart at 2.99 a lb going to start slow and work my way up with it but planning on starting him tonight on an oz or two, and just adding it to his chicken leg quarter and turkey thigh, not taking out anything. 

This is what he currently looks like, he has gained so much energy on raw at 4% I don't want to transition to fast but I do fear the law trying to say I am neglecting him or something


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

ARe his poops ok? I fast fowarded all three of the dogs I have switched to PMR. My foster dog has been eating raw for two weeks and he's had a little beef heart and some organs every day for about a week now. 

If he can handle it, I say no problem. Of course, I think I may be in the minority for thinking that way.


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## Elliehanna (Jan 16, 2012)

yea his poops are ok, I am ganna toss some sweet potatoes in with it though, sweet potatoes act just like pumpkin, I just cant find 100% canned pumpkin around here, only the pie filling :/ so yea ganna use it as a buffer to help keep the beef in long enough to digest just incase


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

Since you are feeding a good amount you might do what I do with mine. Since my big guys (collies) need bone in every meal i give one chicken back and beef, heart or pork. It seems to balance out and their stools stay firm. Just a thought - it works well for us.


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## Elliehanna (Jan 16, 2012)

yea that sounds good, not ganna do it in the beginning though, just ganna add a tiny bit since its a big upgrade on richness but yea I figured I would probably keep him on bone for every meal for a long time to come since at an ideal weight of 65 and him eating 4% its quite a lot of food and I only feed 1 meal a day


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

I think you are on the right track. Go slow with the beef and he will probably do great. He is very thin but not sick looking skinny, part of it is he looks very thin skinned and has the single coat. He is lovely and I think will soon begin to blossom. Don't worry too much if he has good energy, clear eyes and looks happy keep up what you are doing. My youngest male is a lean, lean boy and we are upping his food to add some weight - under his coat he probably looks very much like your boy. We are up to 3% with him and I have never had to feed that much - I am hoping he slows down when he hits maturity.


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## liquid (Dec 28, 2011)

Dont add sweet potato/pumpkin - those are kibble remedies, not raw. What you want to do is feed bone-heavy chicken with the beef to make sure his stools will stay normal. Adding sweet potato or pumpkin would actually probably just throw his system off.
Bone heavy chicken is basically the raw equivalent to pumpkin when it comes to remedies for loose stool/upset tummy.

I went straight into beef after chicken as well, and had no problems. Just make sure you keep it bone heavy the first couple of times you add in the beef.


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## bridget246 (Oct 26, 2011)

xellil said:


> ARe his poops ok? I fast fowarded all three of the dogs I have switched to PMR. My foster dog has been eating raw for two weeks and he's had a little beef heart and some organs every day for about a week now.
> 
> If he can handle it, I say no problem. Of course, I think I may be in the minority for thinking that way.


I complete agree with you. Chicken is just the easiest for most of to find and the cheapest to buy. It has the fewest issues with bones so it makes the translation much easier. That doesn't mean that someone in the know couldn't skip around. 

I would like to foster. I wouldn't want to feed a foster dog a raw diet. There is no way I knew for sure that the new owner would be alright with that. If not it could do the dog a great harm to be fed kibble again after having their stomach completely switched over to raw. The new owners might blame the problem on the raw diet and their vets would probably agree with them. I'd imagine it would be similar to giving up diary and then one day drinking a very large glass of whole milk. Just because it was fine before doesn't mean it will be fine again later.


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## Elliehanna (Jan 16, 2012)

thank you, I really need the encouragement I don't want to fail my boy. He is over 3 years old now and just has such a high metabolism that I just pray he gains weight soon. I don't know what my vet would say about him now, normally he looks a bit thicker on the hips but my vet always says he is the best looking dog that comes into there office (normally they get obese dogs or allergy dogs that people don't listen when they say try grain free..I love my vet lol)

here is a photo of him the same day, all bright eyed, he even has started to LOSE the gray bit on his muzzle he had a few months ago


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## liquid (Dec 28, 2011)

Your boy is ADORABLE! Quite the handsome dog. Just look at those eyes!


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

He is beautiful and you are doing a good job. The other thing missing is giving him some time. I brought my young collie in and felt him trying to compare him to the picture of your boy and they are both probably equally lean - the difference I can feel is being that my pup has been raised on raw he has more muscle tone. You will see this develop with your boy also the longer he is on raw. He will develop more chest and thigh musculature and that will help him look more defined. That is one of the biggest differences I see with feeding pups raw - my puppies used to take forever to build muscle now they are little things and have very nice definition in their musculature - you can't see it because they are collies but you can feel it. On my smoothies it looks awesome, they look powerful and healthy even though they are lean. Give him time to add weight and muscle - this time next year you will be astounded how far he has come.


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## Elliehanna (Jan 16, 2012)

thank you so much, I can't wait till he starts gaining weight back, I miss him looking like this








well with more lean muscle and shiny coat since he is on a better diet


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## CoverTune (Dec 20, 2011)

Would feeding more meals per day help?


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## Elliehanna (Jan 16, 2012)

I don't think so, he has been on 1 meal a day since he was 4 months old, he was not eating enough at 2 meals a day so donno how he would do. I just gave hime 2oz of beef heart with his turkey thigh and leg quarter...now I have to go to indy so wont know how its all going till Monday  so everyone cross your fingers and toes


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## liquid (Dec 28, 2011)

Good luck! 
Feeding red meats/richer meat will help him gain weight, its just a matter of time.


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## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

Elliehanna said:


> thank you, I really need the encouragement I don't want to fail my boy. He is over 3 years old now and just has such a high metabolism that I just pray he gains weight soon. I don't know what my vet would say about him now, normally he looks a bit thicker on the hips but my vet always says he is the best looking dog that comes into there office (normally they get obese dogs or allergy dogs that people don't listen when they say try grain free..I love my vet lol)
> 
> here is a photo of him the same day, all bright eyed, he even has started to LOSE the gray bit on his muzzle he had a few months ago


This picture makes him look SO intelligent! I'm sure you have plenty of pictures that make him look like he is lacking half a brain (I know I do! Sometimes I get the impression that my friends think I have idiot dogs based on the pictures they have seen...) but there are always those gems that make our guys look like they have the intelligence of a human. I LOVE those pictures. He is a great looking guy! His eyes are so chocolatey brown! What is he?

My guy struggles with weight as well. I get malnourished dog and neglected dog comments all the time. Just when I think he is going to gain enough weight he starts growing again and next thing I know, BAM! I can see ribs and spine. I feed my guy almost exclusively beef and pork with the occasional day or two of chicken. Beef heart is a staple in this house. All I can say is to go slow and back off if he gets cannon butt. We skipped pork as well because we just didn't have access to it until later. As long as you go a bit slower than you did with the chicken and turkey, I don't think it REALLY matters what red meat you add first. We did chicken, beef, fish, pork, turkey. I would have gone in order but if we had, they would have been on chicken for over a month. We have easy access to beef so that's what came next.


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## pogo (Aug 28, 2011)

my ambull was very thin when we got him from the rescue 5 months ago and i swapped him to raw and fast tracked him as he really took to it well and has gave lots of smaller meals a day and has gone from:


























to this:

























so don't rule out feeding multiple meals a day


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## Elliehanna (Jan 16, 2012)

thank you  his eyes are so intence he intimidates people all the time when he wants petted lol

he is a great dane/ American staff terrier mix as far as we can tell, I got him from a rescue so have no real idea other than how he looks, and he is 25 inches tall to the withers but his chest is not that wide, his head is blocky like a dane but has some bully characteristics.

yea I have easy access to both pork and beef (have a local butcher that I can get it, normal price but cheaper than the grocery stores normally) but not to much other than grocery stores for turkey and chicken. I found out I can get duck in the asian market but cant find rabbit or anything like that yet local.

your boy looks so different, I don't want my boy that thick, he is lean and my vet would KILL me if I got him that thick, it would be super bad for his joints since he is such a large dog, I will not rule out multiple meals though, if he needs them I will surely try it.

I am going to take a picture tomarrow I think, I got home a few hours ago (I was out of town, hubby was feeding him and came up yesterday and we got home tonight, so no meals missed but without me hear I am always scared he might miss something) he is actually already looking better to me, I donno if it was the darkness or what though (he is an outside dog so its pretty dark)


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## eternalstudent (Jul 22, 2010)

I started my little pup really quite early on beef heart. I just added 10 % of his meals as heart with the rest chicken. He now tolerates heart better than my older pup who has been raw fed for nearly 2 years.

I would definitely think about more than one meal especially if the guy likes read meat when he get it. That way you can feed a little often which will increase the calorie intake without overfeeding.


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## Elliehanna (Jan 16, 2012)

ok, so I can see improvement in his weight with just a few oz of red meat and just a few days, I hope he keeps gaining!


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## pogo (Aug 28, 2011)

Elliehanna said:


> thank you  his eyes are so intence he intimidates people all the time when he wants petted lol
> 
> he is a great dane/ American staff terrier mix as far as we can tell, I got him from a rescue so have no real idea other than how he looks, and he is 25 inches tall to the withers but his chest is not that wide, his head is blocky like a dane but has some bully characteristics.
> 
> ...


He looks gorgeous!

Don't forget my lad is an american bulldog so a different breed all together and should be a lot broader then your lad however he is up to his perfect weight now in my eyes, he is however still a lean dog with the last couple of ribs still visible and a lovely waist and tuck and he is also about 26inchs tall but like i said different breeds, but multiple meals do work wonders!


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## Elliehanna (Jan 16, 2012)

yep yep, I totally know the difference, my pup (about 9 months old now) is an American bully, I actually just took photos of him today (from teh window since he is in an outside kennel since I had the baby in the bedroom and couldn't go out and get him) he is on kibble because he has no allergy issues yet, I hope he stays that way he has been such an easy keeper and by his coat color I thought he was ganna be allergic to a lot of stuff lol

isn't that tall for an American bully by the way? anyhow I am thinking I will start going 2 meals a day starting tomorrow, like his turkey in the am and his chicken and beef heart in the pm

here is my American bully boy, he is under 40lbs right now, I am thinking he will get up to about 50 maybe 55, his mom was only 45 lbs but his dad was 85 so really no telling how he will end up


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## BoxerParty (Nov 9, 2011)

I skipped pork and went straight to beef with my two. They were both VERY skinny, so like you, I wanted them on beef ASAP. They took to it just fine - I started out with 1oz cubes of stewing beef with a bone-in chicken meal. It's been 5-6 weeks now, and they can eat whole meals of boneless beef without issue. 

So go for it! Go slowly of course, but I think that skipping over pork should be just fine.


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## BoxerParty (Nov 9, 2011)

Elliehanna said:


> I don't think so, he has been on 1 meal a day since he was 4 months old, he was not eating enough at 2 meals a day so donno how he would do. I just gave hime 2oz of beef heart with his turkey thigh and leg quarter...now I have to go to indy so wont know how its all going till Monday  so everyone cross your fingers and toes



You might try feeding more meals per day - even if he won't finish the "extra" meals, it would be additional calories for him. This was recommended by my raw-friendly vet to encourage weight gain while minimizing stomach upset. I'm currently feeding Malcolm 4% per day and Lila 3-3.5% per day split into 4 meals - NO problems on this plan.


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## pogo (Aug 28, 2011)

Elliehanna said:


> yep yep, I totally know the difference, my pup (about 9 months old now) is an American bully, I actually just took photos of him today (from teh window since he is in an outside kennel since I had the baby in the bedroom and couldn't go out and get him) he is on kibble because he has no allergy issues yet, I hope he stays that way he has been such an easy keeper and by his coat color I thought he was ganna be allergic to a lot of stuff lol
> 
> isn't that tall for an American bully by the way? anyhow I am thinking I will start going 2 meals a day starting tomorrow, like his turkey in the am and his chicken and beef heart in the pm
> 
> here is my American bully boy, he is under 40lbs right now, I am thinking he will get up to about 50 maybe 55, his mom was only 45 lbs but his dad was 85 so really no telling how he will end up


no he's an american bulldog not bully different breeds as american bullys are banned here under 'type' and ambulls breed standards for males are 22-28 inchs tall and 70-120 lbs in weight and Chance is 26 inchs and weighs 100lbs


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## Elliehanna (Jan 16, 2012)

oh HAHA now it makes sense I totally read it wrong >,< that is a breed I want to one day own, I have no idea why I thought I read bully there >.< he didn't look much like a bully either but you know I am not ganna question owners, I am so glad my mind was tricking me about his breed 

I hope they one day lift that ban since breed bans never work, I am glad that the American Bulldog isn't ban there (I somehow thought it was that probably added to me reading it wrong lol), I have only seen 1 in person, they are pretty rare to be out and about where I live, if people have them they are for hunting so don't walk them and what not.


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## pogo (Aug 28, 2011)

Haha fair enough! makes sense!

Yer it's shame bully's are banned here but at least ambulls aren't  although i think they are a rare breed i've never met anyone else with one or even seen another one unfortunately


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## Elliehanna (Jan 16, 2012)

yea that one I saw actually was loose >.< it did have a leash and collar around its neck, someone had been walking it and obviously had lost their grip on the dog but it looked like it was probably at its home because it was standing panting in a yard lol


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## pogo (Aug 28, 2011)

lol awwww i'd love to see more of them but they don't seem very popular here, i think as there quite a big dog!


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## Elliehanna (Jan 16, 2012)

yea, I don't know why they are not popular here but I guess since they are a guardian breed I am happy they don't have to many in the towns around here, all ya need is 1 getting lose and "terrorizing" the neighborhood(you know a 100lb dog running loose would scare many people even if they just want to lick you) to call for a breed ban (they would ban "pitbulls" and that would mean my dogs would be in danger) so yea I am kinda glad, they are not a dog for everyone but I do wish there were more around however, they are such a fantastic breed


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## pogo (Aug 28, 2011)

Yer i agree they are definitely not a breed to take lightly! 

It's shame pitbulls are banned here i would love one but i'm hoping ambulls don't catch on too much to call for a ban!


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## Elliehanna (Jan 16, 2012)

if they start harping for one go all out and be very active in why breed bans don't work, pretty much all you can do. out here its like 1 city starts a ban while another one lifts it so it has been staying about even overall, hopefully we will one day have no bans but I dont think I will be alive when it happens


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## pogo (Aug 28, 2011)

yer theres not much that could be done but can only try!

yer i don't think we will either but one can hope


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