# Harlequin Dane Breeding



## danecolor (Nov 22, 2010)

for all you other Dane people on DFC - i found this article very interesting. it is really uncommon to see anyone acknowledge this elephant in the room, let alone speak unfavorably about the common practice.

Something is Rotten in Harlequin Danes


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

This makes me sick to think about. How many puppies were culled, died early or lived an unfair life so that a show breeder could have the #1 Harl Dane? Those why preach about the "GDCA Code of Ethics" are full of crap and don't know what the heck they're talking about. They have yet to look deeper down and realize that set of "guidelines" is detrimental at its core. 

I'm sure you've looked into CHROMADANE and have followed JP's articles. For as much as she is the "expert" in the field, I was extremely disappointed to see what her litter last year produced....1 correctly marked harl, a merle mantle, and a white. The last litter she produced has to be of piebald influence (not that piebald is bad genetically by itself- just that it produces "mismarks" in the show world and thus a "no no"). You'd think that someone who knows so much about coat color genetics would strive to produce dogs that are 100% healthy ESPECIALLY in regards to coat color. 

If/when we breed, our dogs first and foremost will be health tested. Then bred with color disregarded OTHER THAN making damn sure that no double merles are produced (to the best of our ability). I wish more would be interested in exploring the possibilities of coat color within Great Danes.


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## Janet At Nutro (Mar 11, 2011)

Well put Natalie. Thank you.


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## werecatrising (Oct 15, 2010)

We have a client that breeds harlequin danes. Most of her dogs have horrible temperaments. The majority of her litters have at least one deaf pup in them. I know of 3 dogs from her that have been euthanized due to aggression. Yet she keeps breeding- has to make a buck and get that perfect show dog.


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## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

Do they recommend splitting up color breedings because of the chance of getting an 'undesirable' color like chocolate? Why exactly do they not like the off colors? You'd think by only choosing to breed certain colors they are reducing the genetic pool already smaller than what it was. That's never healthy..

They also cull ridgeback pups who are born with no ridge. It's terrible.

I knew about the lethal part of the double merle gene and the increased chance of deafness but not all the other inherited problems of that and mostly white dogs..



> Congential cataracts, micropthalmia, persistant pupullary membrane, tapetal hypoplasia, convergent stabismus, entropthalmia, medical canthal syndrome, heterochromia iridis, hyperchromia iridis, colomboma, merle deafness, piebald deafness, demodicosis, atopic dermatitis, skin cancer, follicular dysplasia, photo-induced epilepsy, sterilty, reduced fertility, smaller litter sizes, failure to thrive, and social instability.


I do not disagree with showing but I disagree with some of the practices that go along with it.. over breeding stud males, and disallowing colors that are prevalent in the gene pool.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Show Dane people dislike breeding the off colors intentionally because it's outside the breed standard. But off color Danes can still look like Danes in all other conformational regards. Intentional cross color breeding is done occasionally with show breeders to increase the conformation in their lines, typically harl breeders will bring in a fawn or brindle because overall fawn and brindle have better body conformation than harls. 

It's sad because the gene pool is so small within the "reputable" breeders who show. It's downright hard to find a harl that isn't related to GMJs Five Card Studd anymore. He was such a popular stud dog and so over used that his genes now overwhelm the pool. A show breeder I know of just finished his harl male that isn't related to this dog, so I know he will become "valuable" to the show world...I just hope he doesn't get over used.


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## danecolor (Nov 22, 2010)

Caty M said:


> Do they recommend splitting up color breedings because of the chance of getting an 'undesirable' color like chocolate? Why exactly do they not like the off colors? You'd think by only choosing to breed certain colors they are reducing the genetic pool already smaller than what it was. That's never healthy..
> 
> They also cull ridgeback pups who are born with no ridge. It's terrible.
> 
> ...


white danes often suffer from sensory defects, which are generally simplified to "blindness and deafness". getting more technical, vision impairment can be caused by a range of eye anomalies and defects associated with the merle gene. in the list you quoted, congenital cataracts through colomboma are all conditions relating to the eyes. deafness is caused by a lack of pigmentation in the inner ear, so the interaction of merle, harlequin, and piebald genes lead to deafness. 

lack of pigment in the skin also puts white dogs at a higher risk for skin cancer and dermatitis. however, i am unsure about the claim that white danes suffer from follicular dysplasia, which i have always seen associated with the "blue" dilute gene. 

photo-induced epilepsy has been associated with the eye defects mentioned above.

i have also heard that fertility is effected by the double merle gene but don't know enough about it to comment. as far as social instability goes, i tend to disagree that white Danes are any less temperamentally sound than a pigmented counterpart of similar breeding. i have interacted with several white danes, many with sensory defects and have not noticed any "social instability" in well-trained animals.

i also wanted to point out some flaws with the article so no misconceptions are spread here. many times white are born completely normal with no defects. this is not the norm and does not justify producing them, in my mind, but whites are also not always riddled with defect. some have normal eyes and vision but cannot hear, others are blind but have perfect hearing, occasionally there are whites with severely deformed eyes, skin, and neurological problems, and sometimes they are no different than a black Dane other than their susceptibility to sunburn. there is definitely a range.

also, merlequins (double merles without the harlequin gene) suffer much less frequently from sensory defects than whites because they retain more pigment. merlequins (and whites for that matter) are no more likely to suffer from autoimmune or neurological problems because of their color. those issues have more to do with whether the breeder is "reputable" and focusing on health and genetic diversity. 

the article blurs the lines is this manner as well, so i will clear things up - inbreeding causes immune problems (and other genetic issues to be sure) but inbreeding does not have anything to do with the production of white or merlequin great danes. two totally unrelated harlequins bred to one another will still produce puppies with sensory defects. they are just less likely to produce dogs with weak immune systems.

the article alludes to the fact that the harlequin Dane Rumpus died an early death. this has nothing to do with the fact that he is a harlequin great dane, nor that he was produced from a harlequin to harlequin breeding. harlequins do not suffer from any color-related ailments. normally pigmented dogs from harlXharl breeding do not suffer from any aillmets related to the color of their parents either.


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## lauren43 (Feb 6, 2011)

Its sad that ppl knowingly cross animals, knowing very well what the outcome will most likely be.

I volunteer regularly for a Rescue-a-Bull, and at an event about a month or two ago we were across from a Great Dane rescue.
I was sadden to see they had none of their adoptables there, just their own dogs (insurance issues). Well one of the white danes
was both blind and deaf. Watching him made me cringe. It was a pretty packed event, ppl, dogs, kids going every which way. Every
once in a while he would just freeze or freak out, trying to get away. I just think that is kinda cruel bringing a dog like that to an event
like that. He of course had a little "back pack" for ppl to put donations in...

Here are the two shots I got of him. They aren't very good, the poor baby.


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## danecolor (Nov 22, 2010)

lauren43 said:


> I volunteer regularly for a Rescue-a-Bull, and at an event about a month or two ago we were across from a Great Dane rescue.
> I was sadden to see they had none of their adoptables there, just their own dogs (insurance issues). Well one of the white danes
> was both blind and deaf. Watching him made me cringe. It was a pretty packed event, ppl, dogs, kids going every which way. Every
> once in a while he would just freeze or freak out, trying to get away. I just think that is kinda cruel bringing a dog like that to an event
> like that. He of course had a little "back pack" for ppl to put donations in...


while blind and deaf Danes are clearly at a disadvantage, it really is not the debilitating handicap that it is for humans. a dog's primary sense is its sense of smell, so although a lack of sight and hearing is challenging, i imagine it would be equivalent to a human who could not hear or smell, but could still see.

i briefly had a young blind and deaf Dane pup stay with me and she managed very well with her handicap. every once in a while she would get lost and stamp her paws around in a circle, almost as if she was using vibrations to figure out what was near her. all i would have to do is let her catch my scent or get close enough for her to feel my footsteps and she would perk right up and follow me as if she could see me plain as day. obviously she would need a special owner who was able and willing to take on the challenge of training her and adapting to her unique way of perceiving the world, but she was a perfectly happy, well-adjusted puppy. if i had taken her on, i would not hesitate to socialize her at an event like you described, albeit with a special consideration for her way of perceiving her surroundings and a careful eye to make sure she did not become disoriented or overwhelmed.

however, it sounds like the Dane you saw _was_ overwhelmed and disoriented in that venue. it probably would have benefited him to build his confidence in strange scenarios by starting in small, less scent-saturated areas.


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## Janet At Nutro (Mar 11, 2011)

danecolor said:


> for all you other Dane people on DFC - i found this article very interesting. it is really uncommon to see anyone acknowledge this elephant in the room, let alone speak unfavorably about the common practice.
> 
> Something is Rotten in Harlequin Danes


As the owner of a Harlequin, a Mantle, and a Merle Great Dane, I want to thank you for posting this article.


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