# which supplements do you give?



## Unosmom (May 3, 2009)

For those who feed raw, what supplements do you use, if any?
probiotics, multi, fish oil, bone meal?


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## EnglishBullTerriers (Sep 10, 2008)

Unosmom said:


> For those who feed raw, what supplements do you use, if any?
> probiotics, multi, fish oil, bone meal?


I use AppleCider Vinegar in the water and sprinkle Garlic Powder on the food!! Thats all I do. Except for Izzy who is pregnant and she gets some liquid multi-vitamin drops in her water or on her food each day also! 
I was also told that, because EBT's are prone to have dry skin, if you give a final rinse after a bath with a vinegar/water (50/50) mix. That helps kill bacteria that might grow on the skin!


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

I supplement with omega 3 capsules and vitamin E, Cayenne also get a glucosamine/chondroitin supplement by Vertex canine essentials.


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## Doc (Jan 17, 2009)

Suppliments I use

Wild Grizzly Salmon Oil
Bac Pac Nzymes
Mega C Vitamin and Mineral


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

Abby gets Glucosamine because of a bad hip. Thor gets no supplements. No other supplements needed or given.


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## claybuster (Dec 18, 2008)

EnglishBullTerriers said:


> I use AppleCider Vinegar in the water and sprinkle Garlic Powder on the food! Thats all I do.


Sounds like your trying to make your dog sick. You shouldn't need to add any supplements at all if your food is right. Sounds like most Raw feeders don't get it right therefore have to waste money on supplements in hopes to get it right. Everything I need for my dogs is in a scoop of food and it's right every time, no supplements needed.


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## EnglishBullTerriers (Sep 10, 2008)

claybuster said:


> Sounds like your trying to make your dog sick. You shouldn't need to add any supplements at all if your food is right. Sounds like most Raw feeders don't get it right therefore have to waste money on supplements in hopes to get it right. Everything I need for my dogs is in a scoop of food and it's right every time, no supplements needed.


My suplements are for flea/tick control, not for an actual suplement in reguards to the food I feed. I haven't needed to do any additional flea/tick topical treatments since I put them on the Vinegar and garlic powder. The only time I have ever used a topical treatment at all was when there was a sudden infestation when I moved into my new house!
Other then that, I only suplement my raw diet with more raw diet! 
I do however, give monthly heartworm treatments and every 3 months, I give de-wormer.


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

Claybuster, I use to like you, now your starting to piss me off.


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## claybuster (Dec 18, 2008)

whiteleo said:


> Claybuster, I use to like you, now your starting to piss me off.


Some would say it's better to be pissed off than pissed on.


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

claybuster said:


> Sounds like your trying to make your dog sick. You shouldn't need to add any supplements at all if your food is right. Sounds like most Raw feeders don't get it right therefore have to waste money on supplements in hopes to get it right.


If you knew WHY people use these supplements you'd know it's not for nutritional needs at all. 
Obviously it's flea control, and far better than any poison drops put between the shoulder blades. 
Sounds like raw feeders know what they're doing.....



claybuster said:


> . Everything I need for my dogs is in a scoop of food and it's right every time, no supplements needed.


Oxymoron.


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## claybuster (Dec 18, 2008)

CorgiPaws said:


> If you knew WHY people use these supplements you'd know it's not for nutritional needs at all.
> Obviously it's flea control, and far better than any poison drops put between the shoulder blades.
> Sounds like raw feeders know what they're doing.....
> 
> ...




I don't think so. I would much rather give my dog a Frontline dosage than feed my dog Garlic. Frontline is the safer option. Garlic is toxic to dogs and cats and a horrible ingredient to supplement a dogs diet with, far more dangerous than a Frontline shot you call poison. However, comes as no surprise you don't see that.


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## claybuster (Dec 18, 2008)

Garlic info for dogs:

Toxic Foods and Plants for Dogs

Toxins that Affect Dogs - Veterinary Information

Home-Human Foods that Poison Pets

Garlic

Toxic Dog Food


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## EnglishBullTerriers (Sep 10, 2008)

We have used garlic for all of our dogs for YEARS! And we have never had a dog die because of it! If you give a ton of it, I could see that or if you give a raw clove of it, maybe, but the powder is one of the only processed products that I use and it isn't a big deal to use small doses of it. 
The only things that any of our dogs have every died of is , old age and a horrible disease that the vet didn't know existed and my mom lost her favorite dog before he was 3. Everything in moderation is what I always say!


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

So, Claybuster, you yourself argued that small amounts of not-so-good ingredients are fine in moderation because they require a ton of said ingredient to be digested to cause a problem. to quote yourself in another post:
_"There is no where near enough menadione in a ration of dog food to ever cause a problem. "_

Then to quote the first article you linked: *"While garlic also contains the toxic ingredient thiosulphate, it seems that garlic is less toxic and large amounts would need to be eaten to cause illness."*
And to quote the second article: *"Large amounts of garlic will produce similar toxicity problems in both dogs and cats."* (though this article being written by a vet kind of dismisses any credibility, he probably recommends Science Diet.)

The third article is the same one as the first. 
The fourth doesn't really give any info whatsoever. 

And my personal favorite to quote the last article: *"That being said, onions and garlic appear to be a serious health risk only in large amounts. Some research suggests that the deadly level for a dog is about 50g of onion per kg of dog, which equates to half a kilogram for a 10 kilogram dog, consumed either at one time or over a few days. Research indicates that garlic is less toxic than onion.
Despite the dangers of large quantities of onion, many people believe that in small quantities it is beneficial. It is added to many dog foods and is included in many 'home made' dog food recipes. Raw garlic is also used by some dog owners as a natural flea repellent (not necessarily 100% effective, but useful)."*


Every single article you posted said that LARGE QUANTITES are the only danger, and some even supported the benefits of small amounts being used in a diet. Remind me, are you arguing for or against garlic, because you say how terrible it is, then link us to articles that go against everything you say.
You entirely controdicted yourself and you proposed the SAME argument in support of menadione that you are trying to make against garlic.


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## Unosmom (May 3, 2009)

garlic is fine in small ammounts, unless youre feeding a horse, which I do to get rid of parasites, works like a charm.


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (May 19, 2009)

Many holistic vets recommend supplementation. In addition to glucosamine/ chondroitin/MSM, I use fish oil for the high doses of EPA/DHA for the antiinflammatory effect for a dog with vertebral disc problems. The dose of omega 3 is much higher than that found in any food. In addition, I use dietary enzymes..... cooked right out of kibble, and probiotics. All help in digesting the nutrients found in the food.
BTW, my physician recommends pretty much the same supplementation for me.


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## Unosmom (May 3, 2009)

thanks everyone for the input. Once I get a bigger freezer, I'll be able to stock up on more raw foods and do 50% raw and 50% kibble with Uno.


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

Unosmom said:


> thanks everyone for the input. Once I get a bigger freezer, I'll be able to stock up on more raw foods and do 50% raw and 50% kibble with Uno.


I hear you on that, it definately requires freezer space, ESPECIALLY if you're needing to buy in bulk to save money. 
I was excited to go raw, thought I've done 50% raw for some time now, but my family I'm living with isn't exactly encouraging on it, as I've taken up the freezer space. My grandmother does canning, and she made fifty million bottles of jam today, which means I have officially been kicked out of the freezer :,( I was hoping to hit CostCo today and buy more variety, but looking like I'm hitting the boutique for Innova and Canidae for four more months. :frown:


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## rannmiller (Jun 27, 2008)

My mom found me a really nice, full sized freezer on craigslist for $50 in March and it hasn't even increased our power bill significantly at all, so that could be an option.


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

rannmiller said:


> My mom found me a really nice, full sized freezer on craigslist for $50 in March and it hasn't even increased our power bill significantly at all, so that could be an option.


I'll have to check that out, I didn't think of that. I knew that it would be tough moving back in with family after a few years out on my own, but I had no idea how much of my independence I'd really be giving up. sucks.


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## claybuster (Dec 18, 2008)

CorgiPaws said:


> So, Claybuster...
> 
> Every single article you posted said that LARGE QUANTITES are the only danger, and some even supported the benefits of small amounts being used in a diet. Remind me, are you arguing for or against garlic, because you say how terrible it is, then link us to articles that go against everything you say.
> You entirely controdicted yourself and you proposed the SAME argument in support of menadione that you are trying to make against garlic.


Garlic is toxic to dogs and cats, whether it be in small quantity or large. True, there is not enough garlic in one ration of designer omnivore kibble to hurt your dog, however that does not dismiss the fact that garlic is still toxic to dogs and cats. Therefore IMO it should not be in dog food, no matter what the amounts and how insignificant the amount may seem. Despite not being lethal, by feeding garlic you are delivering sub-lethal doses of toxins over time, and that's not good. I'm a smoker and should practice what I preach in regards to my own health.

Just like avoiding fish with potential of PCBs, just like avoiding artificial preservatives, just like avoiding toxins in certain plants and vegetables, just like avoiding Corn because of genetic modification (GM Corn, banned in some countries), just like avoiding artificial colors and flavoring...it's all about 
avoiding things in the hopes for optimum health for the dogs. Now that may seem crazy and far-fetched to some, but it's what I want to do for my dogs.

No, I have no report for dogs and menadione complex, but I found the one about the chickens! It stated 63% more effective in delivering the VIT K. It's a double-edged sword I guess when it comes down to what goes into the ration. I'll trust in my people that the menadione complex is a non-issue in the amounts included and roll the dice with that.


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