# Starting Cats on Raw- Help please!



## Donna Little (May 31, 2011)

I have 2 FIV + cats. One had surgery last year because of bladder crystals and had PU surgery. Both are pretty healthy other than that but of course after Jaxson's surgery the vet put him on Hill's CD. It's impossible to keep the 2 cats apart during mealtime so they both eat the same. I'm not a fan of this and would love to have them on raw but am really afraid to do something wrong. I know the rules are different with cats and I've read several things about cats and raw but just really want someone to tell me exactly what a cat, (especially one with a compromised system) needs to eat. And any tips on how to go about getting them interested. I wanted to see if either would even try it so brought them some chicken a few weeks ago and they looked at me like I'd lost my mind. To any of you that raw feed your cats, please let me know what your guys get on a regular basis. 
I don'


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## GoingPostal (Sep 5, 2011)

I feed my cat raw, however she cannot handle certain proteins, beef, pork, venison all out, and she won't touch whole prey other than mice. So her diet consists of whole mice, and bones/organs/meat from chicken, turkey, duck and rabbit. Although she is a senior cat she pretty much took to it on her own, although she had to work up to harder bones like drumsticks and generally she prefers if I smash them up for her, otherwise she'll get around to eating it on her own time when she feels hungry enough. I usually have to wait her out on duck/rabbit also, she'll eat it fine but only once she figures out I won't bring something else, I can trick her by pouring chicken blood/water or fish oil over it also. Mixing raw with canned lead to vomit so that wasn't an option for her. She'll also only eat organs if I mix them in with hearts. I don't know what precautions you should take with an immune comprised cat though.


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## cprcheetah (Jul 14, 2010)

I feed my cats raw and pretty much it's the same as dogs, although they will turn their noses up at 'changing' meat if that makes sense (if it's on the quick sale or if it's losing 'freshness'. You do have to make sure to include lots of sources of Taurine for their hearts. So my kitties get lots of Beef Hearts in their diets. I have a cat with asthma, a cat who has chronic bladder issues (pretty much cured now) and she also has allergies....I consider them 'immune compromised' and they are both doing incredible on raw. I would suggest Cornish Hen to start & for the bones, my cats took to it right away....they are little piglets! I do have one who has Cerebral Hypoplasia who WILL NOT eat any type of canned food/raw or anything of the likes....so she still the Blue Wilderness formula....she has a hard time picking up the food as she 'pecks' like a chicken due to the CH, but the rest (5) of them LOVE it!

Here's a link that has some tips:
What About Cats?


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## Donna Little (May 31, 2011)

Thanks for the info. I've read different sites and like the raw dog diet, everyone says something different. I'm just a little more concerned about doing it right because of his health problems and knowing that cats have different nutritional needs. 
So do cats need to start with chicken and stay with that for a while like dogs?
And I've read to never give ground but have been on several sites where people are exclusively feeding ground. I have access to a seriously scary grinder so could grind chicken for them if it's okay to give that to hopefully work them into getting used to it. 
How long should I or could l leave the food down if they're not interested? I've also read that cat food can't stay out for long. 
@ Going Postal: What do you mean when you say your cat can't handle certain things? Does your cat throw it back up or is this something you've discovered a different way?


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## cprcheetah (Jul 14, 2010)

Donna Little said:


> Thanks for the info. I've read different sites and like the raw dog diet, everyone says something different. I'm just a little more concerned about doing it right because of his health problems and knowing that cats have different nutritional needs.
> So do cats need to start with chicken and stay with that for a while like dogs?
> And I've read to never give ground but have been on several sites where people are exclusively feeding ground. I have access to a seriously scary grinder so could grind chicken for them if it's okay to give that to hopefully work them into getting used to it.
> How long should I or could l leave the food down if they're not interested? I've also read that cat food can't stay out for long.
> @ Going Postal: What do you mean when you say your cat can't handle certain things? Does your cat throw it back up or is this something you've discovered a different way?


My cats eat a lot of ground. It's cheap and easier for them to eat it, they love it. I feed ground turkey, pork, chicken, beef. My cats have 20 minutes to eat, if they don't eat it then they get it for their next meal. I don't have time in the morning to wait for them to eat their food.....as I have to be off to work. Yes I started my cats out just like my dogs, 2 weeks of Chicken, then started adding different proteins.


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## Donna Little (May 31, 2011)

cprcheetah said:


> My cats eat a lot of ground. It's cheap and easier for them to eat it, they love it. I feed ground turkey, pork, chicken, beef. My cats have 20 minutes to eat, if they don't eat it then they get it for their next meal. I don't have time in the morning to wait for them to eat their food.....as I have to be off to work. Yes I started my cats out just like my dogs, 2 weeks of Chicken, then started adding different proteins.


Oh thank you for the answer too. Just going to websites about it has been very confusing. I just bought some more of their prescription food but hope to change them over as soon as it's gone. I want them to get the best too but I think it's going to be more of a challenge than with my dogs. Those guys will eat cardboard if it hits the ground... Kitties are a little more picky!


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

My 3 cats(well my 2 girls, 1 and 2 years old, and my Mum's 6 year old boy) eat everything that the dogs do.....either hacked up if the boys get it whole or ground if I happen to have ground food. They like smaller chicken bone(wings, breast, thigh, back, etc,) I will soon also be having Cavy and Rabbit for them....my girls have had chicken, turkey, beef, pork, deer, elk, pheasant, chucker, duck, and fish such as tuna, salmon, trout, and different white fish....and will soon be having MUCH more!:biggrin:

Cats generally need a wee less on the bone size, around 7% rather then 10%....and my girls LOVE all of the organs...ESPECIALLY kidney!LOL

I would NEVER EVER suggest going with chicken and then staying with it for a while...I started with chicken soaked in canned tuna w/water. Once they would eat that I added a wee of pork, then once they ate that well I backed off of the tuna...then added little chunks of what ever I had....at about 4 weeks I wasnt needing the tuna in water any more and they are eating EVERYTHING I offer them!:biggrin:


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## Donna Little (May 31, 2011)

Okay, so the need to transition them slowly like dogs isn't neccessary? I'll be glad to throw everything at them that they'll eat if that's the way to go. My dogs get beef, beef heart, venison, chicken, chicken liver, tripe, (what about tripe for kitties?), and pork. We are going to have to try canned fish because my dogs have decided they no longer think sardines are a good idea. Does that sound well rounded enough for a cat?


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

Donna Little said:


> Okay, so the need to transition them slowly like dogs isn't neccessary? I'll be glad to throw everything at them that they'll eat if that's the way to go. My dogs get beef, beef heart, venison, chicken, chicken liver, tripe, (what about tripe for kitties?), and pork. We are going to have to try canned fish because my dogs have decided they no longer think sardines are a good idea. Does that sound well rounded enough for a cat?


Oh...yes my girls LOVE tripe!:thumb: Boots(my Mum's cat) wont touch it.....but all they have access to is canned stuff!:frown:

And Ive not heard of it being needed.....just make sure they ARE getting bone in...since it can be a little harder I found with ours if we bash the bones then chop up the meat into smaller chunks they eat it better!:smile:

And I think that sounds AMAZINGLY well rounded!:smile: I know with ours they wont pass up canned fish for anything!LOL


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## cprcheetah (Jul 14, 2010)

Scarlett_O' said:


> My 3 cats(well my 2 girls, 1 and 2 years old, and my Mum's 6 year old boy) eat everything that the dogs do.....either hacked up if the boys get it whole or ground if I happen to have ground food. They like smaller chicken bone(wings, breast, thigh, back, etc,) I will soon also be having Cavy and Rabbit for them....my girls have had chicken, turkey, beef, pork, deer, elk, pheasant, chucker, duck, and fish such as tuna, salmon, trout, and different white fish....and will soon be having MUCH more!:biggrin:
> 
> Cats generally need a wee less on the bone size, around 7% rather then 10%....and my girls LOVE all of the organs...ESPECIALLY kidney!LOL
> 
> I would NEVER EVER suggest going with chicken and then staying with it for a while...I started with chicken soaked in canned tuna w/water. Once they would eat that I added a wee of pork, then once they ate that well I backed off of the tuna...then added little chunks of what ever I had....at about 4 weeks I wasnt needing the tuna in water any more and they are eating EVERYTHING I offer them!:biggrin:


Fish is NOT recommended for cats who have bladder issues more than about 1x a week, so please be careful if you do soak the chicken in tuna for cats who have a history of bladder issues, as fish for some reason causes them to build up crystals. Everything I have read said to transition cats slower, such as mixing it with canned food etc. I would guess because most cats are picky butts and don't like change in their diets.


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## Donna Little (May 31, 2011)

My old Dachshund gets a lot of her bone in chicken ground up. She just can't manage eating any bone other than necks and it really tires her out trying to get through it. My best friend has a grinder and about three quarters of Madison's chicken is ground thighs. I give her neck a couple of times a week just for the workout but she has a lot of missing teeth. I think I'll probably give that to the cats but the rest of their meat will be chunks.
I hope it goes smoothly because they're both picky butts.


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## Donna Little (May 31, 2011)

cprcheetah said:


> Fish is NOT recommended for cats who have bladder issues more than about 1x a week, so please be careful if you do soak the chicken in tuna for cats who have a history of bladder issues, as fish for some reason causes them to build up crystals. Everything I have read said to transition cats slower, such as mixing it with canned food etc. I would guess because most cats are picky butts and don't like change in their diets.


I wonder if I should try putting a little ground chicken in with their prescription food then to get them used to it. Good to know about the fish too. I certainly don't want to create more problems for him. Considering the fact that he's had awful bladder problems in the past should I give fish at all?


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## GoingPostal (Sep 5, 2011)

I didn't transition slowly or with one protein at all, pretty much changed the cat over like I did the ferrets, all the meats she can't eat come right back up, she'll refuse them straight out and if I tried tricking her she'd yak it back up, basically seems like she can't handle anything with hooves raw. I know people say cats can't handle meat sitting out but I've fed her food that's gotten forgotten out all night, and stuff the ferrets didn't eat that was sitting out all day and often leave her drumsticks or larger chunks of bone to work on, she'll eat off the meat and come back to it later. She did have some issues with rabbit after awhile and I took it out of her diet and reintroduced later successfully.


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

cprcheetah said:


> Fish is NOT recommended for cats who have bladder issues more than about 1x a week, so please be careful if you do soak the chicken in tuna for cats who have a history of bladder issues, as fish for some reason causes them to build up crystals. Everything I have read said to transition cats slower, such as mixing it with canned food etc. I would guess because most cats are picky butts and don't like change in their diets.


Ya, none of my cats will eat any kind of canned "cat food"....so we went with tuna in h2o. They got about a can, MAYBE 2, over a 2 week period...just allowed the different meats to soak in the juices!:smile:


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## lauren43 (Feb 6, 2011)

You might not be able to transistion fast. If your cat has been on kibble for a while you may have to first switch to canned, then to raw. From what I've read (and yes much of the info is conflicting, and I am a beginner just like you) its better with cats to keep switching up the protien source, they can become picky and start refusing certain protien sources. 

I have found the switch kinda difficult and a bit frusterating at times, but I think it will get easier. I find my guy will eat but I generally have to mix either tuna juice in or canned cat food. The one time I tried bones was an epic fail because I chopped them up too small and he must not have chewed them well enough, well he started choking and then refused to it and this was also the first time he ate without me mixing it with canned or tuna.

I would not do bone in meals until your sure they will be able to handle it. I know their jaws need time to strengthen.

Today we are going to try turkey for breakfast and cornish hen for dinner. I still have to get him chicken.


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## lauren43 (Feb 6, 2011)

Also I thought fish was an important part of a cats diet, no?


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

lauren43 said:


> Also I thought fish was an important part of a cats diet, no?


From what Ive read, no its not....its one of those things like "dogs arent omnivores" and cats need milk...was taught to us.....but not true.


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## Donna Little (May 31, 2011)

Both my guys get canned mixed with kibble in the morning and just kibble for their evening meal. I do that so I can leave it for them over night and not have to worry that it's sitting in a bowl starting to stink. They pretty much eat their breakfast right away so I pick their bowls up and wash them. Well, they have at least 2 weeks worth of prescription food left so after that we're gonna give it a try. I'm just hoping they'll eat it. It'll have to be better for them and cheaper. The food they're on now is $1.50 a can and the smallest bag of kibble is around $17-18. It probably cost me $50 to 60 per month to feed the 2 of them. I know in the big scheme of things that's not much but when you consider I'm also feeding 9 dogs and a rabbit it starts to add up.


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## lauren43 (Feb 6, 2011)

Scarlett_O' said:


> From what Ive read, no its not....its one of those things like "dogs arent omnivores" and cats need milk...was taught to us.....but not true.


Awesome! LOL I had no idea. Thanks, I am happy I won't have to buy a lot of fishes.


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## Imgliniel (Sep 1, 2011)

ok, I am going to attempt to go bit by bit, lol.

Item 1 - Transition. For MOST cats it is better to not stick to one protein for more then a few meals, they tend to latch onto it and then refuse everything else. For a slow transition for a picky eater the most used and most recomended method is to add tiny bits of meat to canned food and then slowly increase the meat and decrease the canned until it is all meat. If a cat dives in with gusto at the first try no slow anything is needed. Just go with it!! You cannot do tough love with a cat. Fasting for more then 24 hours can cause fatty liver disease which can be fatal and is very bad! For mine, Lancelot looked at me like I was an angel from god and promptly devoured everything I had set in front of him and begged for more, we never looked back and he got chicken beef and lamb all in his first week. Figaro I put out little pieces with his canned and after about 4 meals he ate those first and then I served him an all raw meal and he loved it and we never went back. He also had multiple proteins his first week.

Item 2 - different nutritional requirements. Honestly, for prey model, not really. You have Chihuahua's right? So you already have small RMB, frankly you could feed them exactly the same if the cat and chi weigh the same and be totally fine. The 80-10-5-5 still applies. The major thing is cats need taurine, but raw meat is all high in taurine. If you want to be safe, give them a little bite or two of heart every day because heart has the highest concentration of this nutrient. (and mine LOVE heart. Especially beef heart, lol). And when you do chicken give the white meat to the dogs and the dark meat to the cats because the dark meat is higher in taurine.

Item 3 fish - Fish is honestly controversial in cats and raw. Alot of fish today is so contaminated with heavy metals and fire retardant chemicals, a diet high in contaminated fish in cats has been linked to thyroid problems, etc. They absolutely don't NEED it in their diet. However, a small fish low on the food chain that is low in contaminants but high in Omega threes (sardines, anchovy's) once in awhile are fine. Similar to dogs the only real supplement needed is an omega 3 due to modern farming practices. Personally I skip all the risk and don't feed either the dog or cat fish and just give salmon or sardine/anchovy oil. Plus I feed grass fed and natural meats which are high in omega three's anyway. Also, fish tends to be VERY VERY VERY addictive to cats. And many cats once introduced to fish won't eat anything else.

I hope this helps. I transitioned my cats before my dog, actually they have been on raw like a year already because they were gung ho about it. Lucy the dog thinks I am trying to poison her and she has some serious gulping issues I am trying to work out. Also sourcing what I need for the cats was not hard, sourcing the amount of meat Lucy needs at reasonable costs is harder, but I am almost there.


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## Donna Little (May 31, 2011)

Imgliniel said:


> ok, I am going to attempt to go bit by bit, lol.
> 
> Item 1 - Transition. For MOST cats it is better to not stick to one protein for more then a few meals, they tend to latch onto it and then refuse everything else. For a slow transition for a picky eater the most used and most recomended method is to add tiny bits of meat to canned food and then slowly increase the meat and decrease the canned until it is all meat. If a cat dives in with gusto at the first try no slow anything is needed. Just go with it!! You cannot do tough love with a cat. Fasting for more then 24 hours can cause fatty liver disease which can be fatal and is very bad! For mine, Lancelot looked at me like I was an angel from god and promptly devoured everything I had set in front of him and begged for more, we never looked back and he got chicken beef and lamb all in his first week. Figaro I put out little pieces with his canned and after about 4 meals he ate those first and then I served him an all raw meal and he loved it and we never went back. He also had multiple proteins his first week.
> 
> ...


Thank you, thank you everyone! Very helpful. I have just had the hardest time finding direct info on what's okay and what's not and how to transition. Since they already eat canned I'm going to start putting a bite of raw in their morning meals and rotate the meats and see how that goes. My dogs all eat beef heart so that'll definitely be on the kitty menu. I did know that they can't go without eating like a dog can so hopefully they'll be happy to get this new yummy food and not make it difficult. They are cats though so who knows.....:tongue:


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## Imgliniel (Sep 1, 2011)

here are a couple excellent resources for cats

Raw Fed Cats (prey model guidelines for cats, excelent site)
Feeding Your Cat: Know the Basics of Feline Nutrition :: healthy cat diet, making cat food, litter box, cat food, cat nutrition, cat urinary tract health (ground diets for cats, I use some of this in rotation, it is not like barf where you add veggies etc, but it does include some supplementation, good for a cat with chewing problems such as missing teeth etc.)
Feline Nutrition (overall hows and why's of raw for cats, good nutrient requirement discussions)
Cat Forum : Cat Discussion Forums (the raw fed section is very much like this forum but for cats. Exceptionally helpful people, look for the poster "auntiecrazy" she is a very experienced raw feeder who has raised litters from mommas teat right to raw and is a wealth of knowledge and very nice and encouraging)


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## Donna Little (May 31, 2011)

Well, I figured I had no reason to wait so I went ahead and added some meat in with the cats canned dinner. I just stole one of my dogs dinners that had a little chicken and beef heart. Both took a minute to sniff it but they finished all of it. So I think I'll continue to feed like that until all the canned is gone. I think I have 10 or 11 cans. Crossing my fingers they'll continue to eat well and in a couple of weeks they'll be completely on raw!


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## Imgliniel (Sep 1, 2011)

yeah for kitties!


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## tracydr (Feb 25, 2011)

I just started transitioning my husband's cats to raw this week. Funny, last fall, he was resistant to the idea of my dogs eating raw. Now, after a year of seeing the results, we've bought a freezer and he wants me to change his cats over. His cats are probably 15 and 11 or 12 years of age. The older one has been having a few urinary accidents indoors and probably needs to go to the vet for a checkup. They are both overweight, especially the older one. They both go outdoors and I've seen them both eat baby birds and bunnies. So far, they've eaten small portions of beef heart and pork. They seem to like it but I'm still offering they're dry cat food (Innova) during the day. They haven't had bones yet and the youngest has a missing tooth that causes some difficulty chewing so I'm thinking he may need some ground or crushed bones. We'll see how it goes!
Looking forward to having no more kibble in the house!
Oh, does dehydrated liver count as raw? None of my dogs like raw liver. I got a dehydrator and I'm thinking about drying it to use as training treats. Agility class starts next week.


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