# Is this really a food allergy?



## jewels (Jan 3, 2011)

Hello everyone! This is my first post and I'm looking forward to learning from you! I have a soon-to-be 9 year old Standard Poodle. He has been the picture of health for most of his life... not even the typical poodle ear/skin problems have been an issue. Well our luck has run out! He is currently dealing with a serious chronic gas problem. This started 12-18 months ago on a smaller scale and has progressed to a BIG problem. He has no other symptoms. His stool is solid. No vomiting. He doesn't itch or scratch. No ear problems or hot spots or anything. His coat is great. Well he doesn't have the freshest breath, but I don't know if that is related. He has never been a chewer and so after 9 years his teeth have some build up (which I have assumed is the cause of the bad breath). He does have one eye that started running 6 months ago after I took him to the groomer. The eye was literally fine when he went in and running when he came out. He's been to the vet for that and she thinks he got a clogged tear duct somehow during the grooming visit. He has never had runny eyes before and the other eye is fine. He has also been to the vet with the chronic gas issue, and she said he likely has food allergies. We haven't done any actual testing to verify this. The vet just said that chronic gas in an otherwise healthy dog is usually food related. I am interested in canine nutrition and have tried to feed him good quality food. Over the last year I've tried several L.I.D. foods and nothing has seemed to really solve the problem. Lately we have to pull our shirts up over our noses every 5 - 10 minutes. This can't be good for him. I don't want to go to a hydrolyzed food. The vet is recommending Hill's z/d but I don't like the ingredient list. I'm hoping someone has some advice for me. I have a hard time believing that he's allergic to EVERYTHING. He was on Nutro Ultra for several years and did great on it (at the time I didn't know to rotate food to prevent allergies). We have since tried several good quality brands (Wellness, Pinnacle, Innova, Blue Buffalo, Natual Balance to name a few) and different limited ingredient formulas including lamb and rice, venison and sweet potato, bison and sweet potato, trout and sweet potato, and duck and potato. He doesn't do well on beef, and chicken is what the vet assumed was the eventual problem with the Nutro Ultra. What else is there?!? We haven't tried rabbit or kangaroo yet, but I'm seriously running out of options. I asked the vet if there was any other possibility besides food allergies and she said allergies were the likely culprit. So.... any opinions out there? He has never showed any other allergy symptoms besides this horrible gas. He seems healthy and happy. Can he really be allergic to all foods? I have to believe that his chronic gas is going to turn in to something more serious if we don't get to the bottom of this (no pun intended :smile. Thanks for your help! My apologies for being so long winded!

Oh... just in case anyone is wondering... he eats in an elevated food dish, he is a picky eater so he generally eats slowly and isn't prone to over eating, I always transition new foods slowly, he doesn't get table scraps or other treats, he is on a probiotic (FortiFlora from the vet), he has used NuVet Plus and NuJoint Plus supplements (which I currently have) and Missing Link supplement in the past. Any questions about something that might be a clue in this puzzle, just ask!


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## jewels (Jan 3, 2011)

Should I have posted this under Dog Health Issues? I'm sorry if it's in the wrong place. I really need some help with this. I've been trying to figure this out for over a year. Any advice would be SO appreciated!!! Thank you!


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

jewels said:


> He is currently dealing with a serious chronic gas problem.


Gas is not a usual symptom of an allergy. It is a digestion problem.



> Well he doesn't have the freshest breath, but I don't know if that is related.


Yes and no, kinda sorta, maybe distantly, but not exactly. :smile: All kibble fed dogs will develop tatar and plaque on their teeth. This is caused by bacteria which also causes bad breath. 



> He has never been a chewer and so after 9 years his teeth have some build up (which I have assumed is the cause of the bad breath).


Yes it is.



> He has also been to the vet with the chronic gas issue, and she said he likely has food allergies. We haven't done any actual testing to verify this. The vet just said that chronic gas in an otherwise healthy dog is usually food related.


It is food related but not an allergy. Something is not digesting properly and I suspect your dog is having problems digesting highly processed kibble.



> The vet is recommending Hill's z/d but I don't like the ingredient list.


You are smart to avoid that.



> I'm hoping someone has some advice for me. I have a hard time believing that he's allergic to EVERYTHING.


I haven't seen any evidence he is allergic to anything.



> I asked the vet if there was any other possibility besides food allergies and she said allergies were the likely culprit.


She is wrong. Your dog has a digestive problem. For some reason, your dog is having trouble in the digestive process. My guess is that it's probably the fact that he's having problems digesting highly processed foods of any kind.

I suggest trying a Prey Model Raw diet (PMR). This is a diet of nothing but raw meat, bones, and organs from a variety of animals. These are the foods that dog's digestive systems are designed to work with. Check out my web page linked in my sig. It should get you started in the right direction. After you read it, if you want more information either email me privately or post in the RAW section of this board. I honestly think this is the only solution to this problem.



> he is on a probiotic (FortiFlora from the vet), he has used NuVet Plus and NuJoint Plus supplements (which I currently have) and Missing Link supplement in the past. Any questions about something that might be a clue in this puzzle, just ask!


If none of these things have helped the problem, I would stop giving them.


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## luvMyBRT (Mar 8, 2010)

How long have you kept him on a certain food? If your switching foods too often and not letting him settle and get used to one kibble that could be causing digestive upset.

Are any of the foods you tried grain free? If not, I a grain free kibble may be worth looking into.

I agree with RFD, gas is a sign of digestive problems....not an allergy. Is trying raw out of the question? It seems to me that raw would work really well for your dog. 
:smile:


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## jewels (Jan 3, 2011)

Thank you both for the input! A year ago I believed my vet when she said he was allergic to his food, but lately I've been dubious. For 7 plus years he did well on chicken and rice based kibble (sometimes rotated to lamb). When the vet said he was allergic to chicken and that I needed to try a novel protein I started looking at LID formulas. Theoretically he shouldn't have reacted to a novel protein/carb food if it was an allergy, right? We tried several and the gas would always come back. Some would seem to make an improvement, but not for long. I always transitioned slowly and would usually feed the "new" food for at least 2 months. Since he doesn't have any other symptoms other than the chronic gas (which is symptom enough... it's frequent and powerful) I just couldn't believe he was really allergic.... to everything. Does his advancing age play in to this at all? As in, he's getting older and so his digestive tract isn't working like it used to? Also, does his age mean it could be harder to switch him to a) a higher protein kibble, b) a home cooked, high protein diet, c) a raw diet? As far as having tried a grain free kibble, I thought they were but I'd have to check the labels again to be 100%. When I first switched his food from Nutro Ultra I went to the Natural Balance LID line and tried (one at a time of course) the Venison and Sweet Potato, Bison and Sweet Potato, Fish and Sweet Potato, and Duck and Potato. Then I went to Pinnacle and tried the Trout and Sweet Potato and most recently, the Duck and Potato. I have thought about a home cooked and/or raw diet before, but have been a bit intimidated by it. I worried about my ignorance and the time requirement (I have 5 school age kids, 3 of which are dyslexic which translates in to a BIG time investment on my part with their schooling). I also have a cat, parrot, 2 guinea pigs, 2 rats, and a bearded dragon (my kids are as animal crazy as I am). More time. With that said, I ADORE this dog and will do whatever I need to to keep him healthy, happy, and with me as long as possible. If switching to a higher protein/grain free kibble would work, that would be easiest. But I'll go to home cooked or raw if I need to and he can tolerate that at his age. Any more thoughts? Does he need added enzymes if I stay with a kibble? Thank you again for the help! When I started to doubt the allergy diagnosis from the vet I didn't know where to turn for real answers!


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

jewels said:


> Does his advancing age play in to this at all?


9 years is not ThAT advanced in age. Shouldn't be a problem. I don't know if some organ not working exactly correct would cause this or not. Maybe liver or pancreas or stomach or intestines? Don't know.



> Also, does his age mean it could be harder to switch him to a) a higher protein kibble, b) a home cooked, high protein diet, c) a raw diet?


Generally, no.



> I have thought about a home cooked and/or raw diet before, but have been a bit intimidated by it.


It's not really any more difficult than feeding kibble once you get your routine set. It might take maybe a hour or two more a month feeding raw.



> I worried about my ignorance and the time requirement (I have 5 school age kids, 3 of which are dyslexic which translates in to a BIG time investment on my part with their schooling). I also have a cat, parrot, 2 guinea pigs, 2 rats, and a bearded dragon (my kids are as animal crazy as I am). More time. With that said, I ADORE this dog and will do whatever I need to to keep him healthy, happy, and with me as long as possible.


You've really got a full plate. I don't see how you do it all. I'm retired and living my myself. All I have is time. :smile:



> Does he need added enzymes if I stay with a kibble?


Don't know. You would have to know exactly what is causing the problem to know and of course we don't know that.


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## jewels (Jan 3, 2011)

Thanks RFD. I can't tell you how nice it is to be able to bounce some ideas off someone with more knowledge/experience in this area than myself. And yes, I do have my plate full! Of course, I can't really complain... my husband reminds me it's all self-inflicted! I do love my chaotic, sleep deprived life (the kids will be gone before I know it and I won't know what to do with all the personal time) but I am cautious about adding anything new to my plate. It's good to hear that feeding raw doesn't have to be ruled out after all!


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## sassymaxmom (Dec 7, 2008)

When you wrote it seemed to get better then the gas returned it reminded me of Sassy's anal sac issues. Every time I switched her kibble it was better for a couple months and then the things started filling up again. I am guessing it was an allergy or sensitivity to something in kibble. No idea what, they all did it in the end. Perhaps the mineral/vitamin supplement? Really don't know. In her old age she developed kidney disease, I put her on home cooked food and the problem nearly ceased. 13.5 years of butt squeezing nearly monthly and 3.5 years with 3-4 sessions. 

Agree with RFD, raw is best, especially for senior dogs. Max gained 5 pounds of muscle between ages of 8.5-9.5 years right when muscles start to fade away due to age. Teeth stay cleaner on raw, dental disease causes a lot of problems for senior dogs and professional cleanings are very expensive. Feeding 10% bone keeps the calcium/phosphorus balance of the diet at a level better than many super duper kibbles do as well. The wet food is better for the dog that might have trouble getting enough fluids in.


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## jewels (Jan 3, 2011)

I hadn't thought of anal sac issues. He doesn't scoot or lick or anything, does that matter? I don't think the groomer I'm currently using is taking care of that because she frequently misses his nails and/or doesn't clean his ears out. I've stayed with her because I like how she cuts his hair and she is fair priced. I figure I can do his nails and ears...but I don't do his anal sacs! Maybe a trip to the vet is in order to check things out!


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## Khan (Jan 17, 2010)

Not much to add. Just hadn't been on for a couple days and thought I would say "Hello" I believe you are on the right track with all the previous input. I would sway more toward the digestive tract then a food allergy. If the kibble has alot of ingredients or is simply just too rich for his system, that would give you the gassy results you are smelling! LOL! 
I would absolutely look around in the Raw section. It's very "daunting" at first, and seems like it's going to be waay too much work and hassle. After you get into a routine you will find it is just as easy as kibble. 
Good luck and Welcome!


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## jewels (Jan 3, 2011)

Thanks! Your post made me think of another question. I've seen a lot of posts where people talk about a food being "too rich" for their dog. What exactly does that refer to in dog food? Higher protein? Higher fat? I only ask because if the foods he's been on are too rich... wouldn't moving up to an even higher protein, higher quality food mean a richer food? And therefore maybe too "rich" for his system? What would you all say is a minimum protein percentage, and if there is one, a maximum protein percentage for my dog's situation? Thanks again! I really appreciate all the input!


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