# Getting something off my chest --crating



## JLeigh (Jul 15, 2012)

I hope this doesn't upset people. I'd really like to discuss this because I'm not sure if I'm looking at this in the wrong way. Because of what I do for a living, I am in a lot of people's houses, and I've been reading enough posts on dog forums that I know it's pretty common. I do not understand why so many people crate their dogs all day. I see the value of crate training for a puppy, and I do know that some dogs have separation anxiety and they have to be crated for their own safety, but for 8, 9, or 10+ hours almost every day? What kind of a life is that for a dog? It seems to me that many people with busy lifestyles will get a dog and just assume that it's fine to stick the dog in a crate all day every day. I see lots of forum threads (I don't mean this forum, necessarily) about how horrible it is to have a dog kenneled _outside_ all day every day, but many of these same people think nothing of kenneling their dogs _inside_ all day every day. If you want a pet that can handle being in a cage all day, a dog is not the answer, imho. Gerbils, snakes, and hamsters? Yes. A dog? No. One of my clients has two adorable little dogs. They have them in ONE tiny crate. I thought they were crating when I was there in case they bothered me. When I told them that I didn't mind at all if they were out and about, I was informed that they are in there because they go to the bathroom in the house. THEN TRAIN THEM! They aren't puppies; these two are both around 4 years old. I promised to let them out frequently when I was there, so at least now they can be out of the crate on the days that I'm there. 

Your thoughts? Am I overreacting?


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

I foster and do rescue and I don't crate dogs unless we go in the car. I think for a few hrs. it is fine but 8-10 hrs is not natural. All my fosters get's gated either in the laundry room or t.v. room.


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## BearMurphy (Feb 29, 2012)

You are not supposed to crate your dog for that long so you are no overreacting

Crates can be used to train a puppy or contain your dog for short periods of time. After I bought my house I didn't get a dog until I started working from home. This allows him to have good relationship with his crate even as an adult because he doesn't fear getting stuck in it for long periods of time.

I still use it when I leave the house for more than 15 minutes for his own safety because I don't want him getting into something or hurting himself if he is responding to something going on outside. He'll run back and forth between all the windows and could easily trash himself on the stairs so that has to do with the layout of my house more than anything. If I have to be gone for long periods of time (which is rare), I'll ask someone to come over and spend 1/2 hour with him once or twice


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

my dogs are crated when i leave the house. they have never been crated for longer than 4 hours and that was only because of traffic.

my puppy takes naps.....for an hour or so....

no one should crate a dog for that long. 

that makes me wonder why that person has a dog to begin with.


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

We crate if we are not home but since I am a homeschooling mom we are often home. When I worked my dogs had their own room, with nothing they could injure themselves with. Sunday my dogs are crated for up to 6 hours but that is the only day of the week and they are free the rest of the time. I have seen too many accidental injuries/deaths to leave them totally loose.


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## Oso (Oct 6, 2011)

I have crated dogs for extended periods of time before, sure its not an ideal situation but sometimes its a must, now am I saying you should do this all the time. No. You should probably get a cat if you need to crate a dog for over 8hours on a regular basis. 
I love crate training and crating, not knocking it. I would much prefer a dog be tethered outside for that 8hours than in a kennel. It gives more space and they cane empty themselves etc as they need and dig, look at birds, do dog stuff but still be secured. 
I have a friend who has a dog, he is crated almost all the time. I do feel bad for him, its a sad life imo and I love my friends and the dog but they shouldnt ever have gotten him if they were going to crate that long. I mean, I dont mind long crate times so you know when I am not liking the amount of time a dog is crated its a LONG time. He is always over excited and hyper when let out and since he acts that way, he is put back in the crate. 

We have three dogs in my home, they are all extremely dog aggressive so they cant be out together at all. We crate and rotate. I am home all day so they are rotated every hour or so, at any given time only one dog is in a crate, sometimes no dogs are in the crate because one is upstairs in the bedroom. Its all about management and they dont mind. The all get their yard time, and one on one inside house time. 
I think the longest that any one is crated is at night, one will be in the yard usually its Turbo because he is old and there is no risk of him climbing the fence, one in bed with us, and one in the crate. No one gets unsupervised free roam in the house at night, thats the cats free run around act stupid time lol

I think if you need to crate the dog for an extended time ALL the time, might wanna look at the quality of life you are giving the dog. To me its not so much the time the dog is in a crate, its how long they are alone for. Make time for the damn dog, you got it, do right by it.


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## lauren43 (Feb 6, 2011)

I see nothing wrong with crating dogs. I think that we now live in a world where most people work to make a living and care for said dogs. If you can come home on your lunch hour that would be ideal but that is a luxury not all of us are able to afford. I am single. I work full time. When I first got my dog he was crated daily, sometimes much longer than I would like. But I knew that while I was a work he was safe and my apt was safe as well. When I first got Avery I had a roommate that was willing to let him out when I was away, but Avery did not want to come out for him. 

So I may be the minority here. But I think crating is fine, even if sometimes its for extended periods of time. Its when your home that counts...you better make up for the time spent away. 1 hour or more of exercise per day should be given to a dog that is crated for extended periods of time. And when you aren't working, you should find time for your dog! I think that is a bigger issue.

People may not agree with me but re-homing dogs is traumatic for everyone including the dog. And there are far too many homeless animals in this world as it is. 

And there are many different types of dog owner, with a variety of circumstances. Many people who don't crate their dogs, still treat their dogs as furniture (ie they never get to leave their house or their yard and rarely receive training beyond sit)..Also there are people in this world with multiple dogs that don't get along. While, I am not sure I could do it, many people do it and do it successfully. So in my opinion its up to the individual owner. If you are going to have a dog and you are going to be gone extended hours, have a plan! You can make it work. Besides the fact that their are many services available these days, if you can afford them and if your dog enjoys them: dog walkers, dog daycare's.

I do not believe in leaving a dog outside for extended times when you are not home...way to many "what if's"

Plus life changes, when I got Avery my life (work and what not) was much much different than it is now. And I expect in the years to come it will change again and again, and I always hope for the better.

I will note that Avery is no longer crated. He gets full range of my tiny apt (minus the bedroom) and I think he spends most if not all of his alone time sleeping on the couch. He never potties in the house and never gets into anything...Though lately while I'm home he has figured out how to turn on the TV, perhaps I should put that on a cue...


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## InkedMarie (Sep 9, 2011)

I crate my dogs. One is 2.5 yrs old; she has been known to chew power cords. She's crated for the safety of my home and her. My boy is 7 yrs old. When the windows are open, he is crated because he's reactive to the outside world. He doesn't need to be crated in the colder weather but most of the time he goes into his crate anyway so we close the door. Our newest gal is almost ten and she loves her crate.
I often hear/read about anti-craters who say dogs just sleep anyway, why can't they be loose? That could be the other way around: all they're gonna do is sleep so why not be safe in a crate?
All I know is my dogs are safe in their crates, my house is safe, no neighbors complaining bout dogs barking out the window, if there's a fire, I know where my dogs are. Also, my dogs are happy.


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## Savage Destiny (Mar 16, 2011)

My dogs are crated for 6-8 hours most days, although with new work schedules for me and the fiance it's only 3 days a week. They do get a potty break, though, in the middle of the day. 

I don't believe in free range dogs in the house. That's how dogs get blockages, ingest poison, destroy furniture, etc. I want to know that my dogs are 100% safe when I am not home. I want to know that if there is a house fire, my dogs are crated next to the front door with slip leads on top of the crates so firemen don't have to search for them. If someone breaks into my house my dogs won't get shot for defending the house, same for if the police barge in to the wrong house (which does happen). I also would never feel safe leaving my dogs out unsupervised. Not only could they escape, but I have Pit Bulls- people like to steal, poison, and shoot unattended Pit Bulls. Not to mention, again, police chasing suspects through back yards often shoot dogs that get in the way. 

When I get home, my time is devoted to my dogs. In the summer we go out swimming literally every night. In the winter we either go for walks or do training sessions and puzzle toys to keep them busy. My days off are devoted to day hikes or swimming trips. My dogs get WAY more exercise and stimulation than 90% of dogs, since most people believe that a leash walk around the neighborhood or playing in the back yard is all the dog needs. I don't rely on throwing my dogs out in the yard all day for their exercise needs. So yeah, it bothers me when people try to rag on me for being a horrible person and crating my dogs all day. I _know_ my dogs are safe, I get that peace of mind. My dogs get more exercise than most people's dogs. So how exactly are they suffering?


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## GoingPostal (Sep 5, 2011)

I don't think it's ok to crate a dog 10-12 a day, imo if you are gone that long on a regular basis get a dog sitter/walker, doggy daycare, find another job, whatever you have to do because that's no life for an animal to be caged and unable to potty that often, pretty much half it's life. And how many of these dogs are crated at bedtime I wonder? Even in a larger space, if you use a bedroom the dog should still have a break or two to go outside. Not against crating, I love our crates and two of the dogs are crated whenever we leave, I'm not going to risk coming home to a dead dog or a dead cat (plus one will chew and potty and the other might eat a door or scratch it up), my oldest dog stays downstairs by herself (she is trustworthy, does not chew, potty or eat anything, she just loafs around) and my cat stays upstairs by choice with a gate separating them. They are usually crated from 10 minutes to 2 hours most days and rarely up to 6 hours but even that is with a break most times. If we are gone longer we pay a friend to come over and take them out.


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## NewYorkDogue (Sep 27, 2011)

My dog is never crated. He has had free-roam of my apt. since about 6/7 months of age. Prior to that, I used baby gates to contain him either in the kitchen area, or the front living room. He is not a chewer, he never barks, nor has accidents inside. Usually, he gets at least 2 hours of exercise in the park each morning so when he's home he's basically a slug.

He does, however, have 2 large crates: one in the front room, and one under my loft in the bedroom, where he sleeps at night. He uses both regularly, and loves them... I just keep the doors always open. 

I have closed him inside his crate twice: once when he was a puppy for training, so he could finally "get" the house-breaking thing (and it worked; after that one time, he never had another accident in the apt.). The other time was recently when a group of people came over to pick-up and transport several delicate sculptures from my place. I knew he might be excited with the people and activities, and could not risk damage to these pieces, so I crated him... for about 20 minutes. It was not a problem.

My dog prior was also never crated. Never had a problem; he was also a pretty mellow dog...there was just no reason to. He also had access to open-door crates to hang out in, and/or sleep.

My opinion: just like so many things, the crate is a tool, and it has it's place. I personally cannot imagine keeping a dog inside a crate for an extended period of time, for days on end; it feels cruel to me.

Also, what did people do before the crate became so popular? I grew up with dogs, and we never used crates...


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## FBarnes (Feb 17, 2013)

I don't own a crate. I have a dog who is young and energetic and he destroys things and poops inside when I am gone for over a couple of hours. When I came home for lunch he didn't want to go back inside - he would not go willingly so I had to pick him up, and he would hang limp as a dishrag and cry, cry, cry all the way inside. 

So I got him a doghouse and now leave him out. Yes, something could happen. But he is happy now and he wasn't happy before. If my house burns down, he won't go with it which is what I obsess about more than anything happening to him outside. I could never leave a dog in a crate with no way out in case of fire. I guess we all have our definition of "safe."


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## FBarnes (Feb 17, 2013)

NewYorkDogue said:


> Also, what did people do before the crate became so popular? I grew up with dogs, and we never used crates...


I remember having to buy a crate to fly a dog back in the 70s. It was a source of great curiosity amongst all my friends. None of us had ever seen one before.


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## Celt (Dec 27, 2010)

I will freely admit that I don't believe in the way most people crate their pups. I can not imagine it to be very comfortable to not be able to fully stretch out which if using the "reccommended" size for crates pretty much prevents that. I do understand that sometimes (due to circumstance or choice) crating is neccessary but can't agree on the sizes used. When Scotty broke his leg, we were told to get him a crate to keep him in. Jeezus, the appropriate size was tiny. Sure he could stand, turn and lay down but stretch out? Not happening. We ended up buying a wire Xlarge one. This size allowed him to fully stretch out which means he spreads out from side to side and front to back taking up almost the entire crate. Another thing is using a crate to "force" a pup to hold "it". I know how uncomfortable it is not to be able to go, so to "force" my pup to either hold it or mess themselves isn't something I can do. I know dogs become "attached" to their crates (Scotty loves his and pouts when we've had to put it away) but I just can't see keeping a pup in such a small space for very long.


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## GoingPostal (Sep 5, 2011)

Celt said:


> I know dogs become "attached" to their crates (Scotty loves his and pouts when we've had to put it away)


Funny enough my dog that is left loose all the time LOVES the crate, she stays downstairs at night half the time but the other half she comes up with us, doesn't want to be on the bed but will go sleep in my males crate by choice. We have an x-pen in the bedroom with a papasan cushion and put 1-2 dogs in there and 1 on the bed. Rotate who's out. We can't fit them all on the bed but don't want to crate them so this works.


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## lauren43 (Feb 6, 2011)

FBarnes said:


> I remember having to buy a crate to fly a dog back in the 70s. It was a source of great curiosity amongst all my friends. None of us had ever seen one before.


I don't believe there was a leash law then either. Many ppl did not keep their dogs indoors. 

Both my parents had dogs around that time and both lived in the city (the city of Syracuse so not a particularly large city but a city none the less)...most if not all if their dogs were outdoor only dogs with no backyards and no leashes...many were hit by cars, some just disappeared, one of my moms dogs got preggers and once the puppies were taken away she left and never came back...

So saying things were different then doesn't necessarily mean they were better.

Lets see what could happen to a dog unsupervised outdoors: stolen, poisoned, strangled, attacked by or it could attack another animal.

Things that could happen to a crated indoor dog: fire. I'll think I'll take my chances with an indoor dog.


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## Herzo (Feb 5, 2011)

I guess it depends on where you live. When I lived in town and had my first basset if she was in the house I would tell my neighbor, whom loved my Sweet Pea very much, if the door is locked she is not in the house. I would not lock my door if she was in there but I was living in a small town and still do. I could do that and get away with it.

My dogs have a dog door and can go out when ever they want to it's where you live that makes a difference. Some of use are lucky and can do that, some not so much. If someone wants to poison my dogs they have to open the gate and drive down the lane and most people are to lazy to open the gate.

My propane guy is my neighbor so it's a small world for me.


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## Jacksons Mom (Jun 13, 2010)

I've always felt the same. I don't think it's 'cruel' necessarily (so long as the dog is getting proper care and attention when not in the crate). But I used to dogsit, and I used to feel so bad for some of the dogs who I know would be in there for another 6-8 hours after I left. And yeah I know a lot of times it's for their own good, but I don't know, it does upset me.

We've never been the kind of family to use crates anyway. My dad was always 'against' them. I just never had the heart. But I admit that we've never had a 'problem' dog either. My grandma's Foxhound for example... left uncrated for even 20 mins will destroy a house, chew everything, get into the bathroom and get the toilet paper, etc. So I understand them. But it still doesn't mean I have to like it.


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## JLeigh (Jul 15, 2012)

As I said, I do see the value of crate training, and I definitely believe that some dogs need to be in crates for their own safety (separation anxiety, etc). I have no problem with that for shorter periods of time. As a general rule, though, I do have a problem with dogs being forced to spend more than half of their waking hours in a small cage. I think it's inhumane. Sure, you can condition a dog to like its crate. If somebody handed me a Godiva chocolate bar and a glass of wine every time they put me in the closet, I'm sure I'd eventually learn to tolerate it. :wink: However, spending so much time in a closet would affect my quality of life. If you (gy) have no choice but to crate a dog that much, I question whether or not you (gy) should own a dog. Again, I am not referring to those people who own dogs that must be in a crate because they have destructive/dangerous separation anxiety and such. I also see people using them excessively because they are lazy pet owners. They can't manage to train the dog not to potty in the house, so rather than work on training the dog, they just shove it in a crate that's so small that they won't potty in it. 

It seems to me that crating has been over-emphasized in recent years. "You're going to be gone 10 hours a day? No problem! Just put Daisy in the crate with a stuffed Kong and a shirt with your scent on it! She'll be just fine!" I'm exaggerating a bit, but you get the picture. As someone already asked, what did people do before crates? We had a family dog when I was a kid. No crate. My parents have 2 collies. No crate. My sister has a German Shepherd. No crate. I'm not saying that no one should ever use a crate, but nowadays it's almost like you're some kooky, irresponsible dog owner if you don't put your dog in a crate every time you run out to the mailbox. 

We don't use a crate for Alice. She was an owner-surrender and her previous owners couldn't handle her energy so they crated her all blinking day and half the night. Now she goes berserk if she even sees a crate. She had some separation anxiety when we got her, so we tried to lock her in a dog-proofed room. She tore the room apart. We eventually gave up and just dog-proofed the house (as best we could) when we left. She was and is fine with that, but the instant we try to block her off somewhere, she goes nuts. I decided not to try to recondition her to something that causes her such fear. I will say, however, that not being able to use a crate or block her off in a room has forced us to be absolutely on top of her training. For example, we can't put her in a crate while we're eating dinner, so we work very hard on her "begging".

Anyway, I truly hope that I haven't offended anyone here.  I'm just trying explain my aversion to excessive crating.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

i use the crate mostly for safety. i would not want to come home and find that my dog ate something and choked, whilst i thought he or she or he were sleeping. 

i would not be happy if my collie, in one of his more mischievous moments, managed to have something fall on him and hurt him.

it's nice to come home from wherever i am and know they are safe. that's the only reason i use crates. 

before that, they'd be confined in a bathroom or the kitchen. 

since i don't leave them alone for long periods of time, i'm okay with what i do. 

having said that, every dog is different, as is every owner

and it's a know thy dog situation.


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## FBarnes (Feb 17, 2013)

lauren43 said:


> I don't believe there was a leash law then either. Many ppl did not keep their dogs indoors.
> 
> Both my parents had dogs around that time and both lived in the city (the city of Syracuse so not a particularly large city but a city none the less)...most if not all if their dogs were outdoor only dogs with no backyards and no leashes...many were hit by cars, some just disappeared, one of my moms dogs got preggers and once the puppies were taken away she left and never came back...
> 
> ...


In the 70s, I had a German Shepherd/malamute dog that weighed over 100 pounds. I lived in one room off campus because they wouldn't let him live in the dorm with me. Different, and better in so many ways. The food was better, the way we didn't put them in a cage all day was better, the way we carried them EVERYWHERE because everyone had their dogs with them. If I had a choice, my dogs would live five happy years rather than 15 years, 10 of which was spent in a crate.


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## FBarnes (Feb 17, 2013)

JLeigh said:


> For example, we can't put her in a crate while we're eating dinner, so we work very hard on her "begging".


My dog lays quietly while I am preparing dinner, but I can't stop him drooling. I get nauseated cleaning up a giant dinner plate size of slobber off the floor, so I put him outside while I'm fixing food. I guess he could get eaten by a hungry coyote during that time, but that's a risk I take  Baby gates work for alot of stuff, too. I don't even mind the sitting and staring, it's the drooling. I'd rather clean up the worst diarrhea than drool.


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## Tobi (Mar 18, 2011)

GoingPostal said:


> Funny enough my dog that is left loose all the time LOVES the crate, she stays downstairs at night half the time but the other half she comes up with us, doesn't want to be on the bed but will go sleep in my males crate by choice. We have an x-pen in the bedroom with a papasan cushion and put 1-2 dogs in there and 1 on the bed. Rotate who's out. We can't fit them all on the bed but don't want to crate them so this works.


This is totally tobi... We leave his crate open, we've made his crate such a positive place that half the time when we are gone for three or four hours we find him in there... We used to crate him never for long hours, I don't think 10-12 hours at a time is acceptable... I used to crate my dog zoey while I was at work, and I'd come home or take her to work with me and we could play and run on breaks since they were long days...


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## lauren43 (Feb 6, 2011)

I do find this thread mildly offensive. I hope you all appreciate what you have (ie the ability not to have to crate for your entire work day)...I however don't have that luxury and therefore according to almost everyone on this thread I should not be a dog owner.

I do feel guilty some days. I adopted a dog knowing he had his issues but minus said issues he is a great, funny, goofy, overall seemingly happy dog. And outside of my work time we do things to keep him busy and when I can't he seems to enjoy cuddling on the couch just as much as I do. So I'm not going to let strangers make me feel worse, I know my dog, I know he's happy and I'm doing the best I can!


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

I'd personally see it being a better life having to be crated all day while the people are at work or school, than to live in a shelter, or the streets or be euthanized. Realistically most people crate their dogs more than I personally would but I don't think that determines whether or not a person should have a dog at all. 

Now if someone crates all day, then comes home and doesn't really do anything with their dog just to turn around and be crated all night as well- that's a different story. These people probably shouldn't make the commitment to a dog that they cannot fulfill.


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## JLeigh (Jul 15, 2012)

lauren43 said:


> I do find this thread mildly offensive. I hope you all appreciate what you have (ie the ability not to have to crate for your entire work day)...I however don't have that luxury and therefore according to almost everyone on this thread I should not be a dog owner.


I did not want to offend you or anyone else. I do understand that not everyone agrees with me on what is excessive crating. But, I'm allowed (I hope) to have an opinion on it.


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## FBarnes (Feb 17, 2013)

lauren43 said:


> I do find this thread mildly offensive. I hope you all appreciate what you have (ie the ability not to have to crate for your entire work day)...I however don't have that luxury and therefore according to almost everyone on this thread I should not be a dog owner.
> 
> I do feel guilty some days. I adopted a dog knowing he had his issues but minus said issues he is a great, funny, goofy, overall seemingly happy dog. And outside of my work time we do things to keep him busy and when I can't he seems to enjoy cuddling on the couch just as much as I do. So I'm not going to let strangers make me feel worse, I know my dog, I know he's happy and I'm doing the best I can!


I don't think anyone is trying to make you feel any particular way. I certainly don't feel any different even though you said my dogs are at risk of poisoning, coyotes, and all kinds of horrible things. He will be out happily playing in the yard next time I leave the house and what you said wont' affect me at all.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

lauren43 said:


> I do find this thread mildly offensive. I hope you all appreciate what you have (ie the ability not to have to crate for your entire work day)...I however don't have that luxury and therefore according to almost everyone on this thread I should not be a dog owner.
> 
> I do feel guilty some days. I adopted a dog knowing he had his issues but minus said issues he is a great, funny, goofy, overall seemingly happy dog. And outside of my work time we do things to keep him busy and when I can't he seems to enjoy cuddling on the couch just as much as I do. So I'm not going to let strangers make me feel worse, I know my dog, I know he's happy and I'm doing the best I can!


lauren, i do appreciate what i have. the ability to work from home when i did and be with my dogs was a blessing.

i realise it could have turned out differently had i worked in an office, although, since i don't play well with others.....that, too, would have been disastrous 

we do the best we can with what we have.

it makes me sad that my baby boy is at liz' house because of my health issues. that she is doing things with him to ready him for me about once a month. i feel guilty sometimes, that, i am not able to teach him to heel and other things he needs to know in order that i don't fall or get hurt. he's going to be a big boy.....and needs to learn certain things.

he's a boy who has each foot in a different country....yet, he's loved and cared for by his immediate family and his extended family....and, well, that's life. 

so i'm sure you do the best you can with what you have.....we all do. 

i don't lock my doors because i don't care if someone steals from me....but in case of fire, i want those firemen to be able to get my dogs out, if possible.

it's silly, because if it's a bad enough fire, i would have wished they were outside....but if a predator came along or a person wanted to steal my dogs, they would.

there is no possible way of being 100% perfect with our environments or safe with how we contain our dogs when we're not home.

we just do the best we can and try not to judge others.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

lauren43 said:


> I do find this thread mildly offensive. I hope you all appreciate what you have (ie the ability not to have to crate for your entire work day)...I however don't have that luxury and therefore according to almost everyone on this thread I should not be a dog owner.
> 
> I do feel guilty some days. I adopted a dog knowing he had his issues but minus said issues he is a great, funny, goofy, overall seemingly happy dog. And outside of my work time we do things to keep him busy and when I can't he seems to enjoy cuddling on the couch just as much as I do. So I'm not going to let strangers make me feel worse, I know my dog, I know he's happy and I'm doing the best I can!


I wish I could work from home. It would be such a blessing. I love Saturday's when the dogs come to work with me...and the days when Murphy comes to the office for the day.

My life has changed SO much since I got Murph & Abbie. 

I did used to crate Murphy, because he will pee on the carpet/my bed if it's been a few hours and he has to go. I put him in a big 36 inch crate (Abbie's old one) so that he could really properly get up and stretch out. 

Now he's graduated to being baby gated in the kitchen with a bed, a bowl of water, and some bones. He and Abbie (who gets free run because she's an angel lol), can see and sniff each other through both baby gate openings. I still rush home from work though. My coworkers bug me to come out for a drink after, but I can't. I want to get home to my dogs lol.


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## Celt (Dec 27, 2010)

I didn't say I thought crating was awful. My issue is with the size of crates used, especially if the pup has to be in it for long periods. It's purely my opinion that the reccommended size is much too small. I feel if my pup was unable to completely stretch out (which is their favorite position) as well as just move around somewhat freely that they would be uncomfortable or at the very least not fully comfortable. Like I said, Scotty loves his crate and "pouts" when it's "missing" , even Blaise will go in it, especially when he's "pouting" lol. But it is an Xlarge one that's supposed to be large enough for a golden retriever, yet when Scotty stretches out he spans it easily. Crating isn't something, I would normally consider but there are times when it's needed (like when Scotty broke his leg). I just can't use the correct size due to my feelings and viewpoint.


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## InkedMarie (Sep 9, 2011)

Celt said:


> I didn't say I thought crating was awful. My issue is with the size of crates used, especially if the pup has to be in it for long periods. It's purely my opinion that the reccommended size is much too small. I feel if my pup was unable to completely stretch out (which is their favorite position) as well as just move around somewhat freely that they would be uncomfortable or at the very least not fully comfortable. Like I said, Scotty loves his crate and "pouts" when it's "missing" , even Blaise will go in it, especially when he's "pouting" lol. But it is an Xlarge one that's supposed to be large enough for a golden retriever, yet when Scotty stretches out he spans it easily. Crating isn't something, I would normally consider but there are times when it's needed (like when Scotty broke his leg). I just can't use the correct size due to my feelings and viewpoint.


I agree. My brittany and pbgv both have a vari kennel that is 36x24. Gemma, the sheltie, is in a 32x23. A size or two too big but good for them!


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## riddick4811 (Nov 2, 2011)

I don't crate my dogs. I do have crates and will use them if needed, but never cared for them. Most of my dogs have free range of the house and yard. Casper is locked in my room when I'm going to be gone only because he of the chance of him harming one of the other dogs while I'm not home. And I will use a crate for some fosters if needed for housebreaking and/or destructive dogs or until I know what they are going to do. But no more than 5-6 hours tops w/o being let out.


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## doggiedad (Jan 23, 2011)

when my dog was crated my neighbor came in every 2 hours to let him.


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## kathylcsw (Jul 31, 2011)

It is hard NOT to be offended with a thread that starts out saying that I shouldn't have dogs because I do crate while we are at school/work. It would not have been offensive had OP stated that they would not have a dog if they had to crate it. My dogs are out all the time we are home and sleep with me at night. They are happy, healthy, well adjusted dogs who I feel certain are ok with me owning them. They are small dogs who would get into too much if lose all day and sometimes get into small fights. I feel better knowing they can't get into anything when am gone.

There are many, many things that would render one unfit to have a dog but, for me, crating isn't it. Not by a long shot, not even at the end of the list. 

If you fight your dog, you should not have a dog.
If you run a puppy mill, you should not have a dog
If you cannot/will not feed it enough food, you should not have a dog.
If you chain your dog in the backyard without shelter or attention, you should not have a dog.
If you will not provided needed vet care, you should not have a dog.
If you physically abuse your dog, you should not have a dog.

These are reasons people should not have dogs. Whether you choose to crate or not, whether you choose to feed something that others find not good enough, and whether you choose to vaccinate are personal choices based on your lifestyle and how you prioritize in your life NOT reasons to be judged unworthy of having a dog. The beautiful thing is that we all get to make our own choices and still get to have dogs. If only some could not be so smug of the choices they are able to make and not judge others for making different choices.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

kathylcsw said:


> It is hard NOT to be offended with a thread that starts out saying that I shouldn't have dogs because I do crate while we are at school/work. It would not have been offensive had OP stated that they would not have a dog if they had to crate it. My dogs are out all the time we are home and sleep with me at night. They are happy, healthy, well adjusted dogs who I feel certain are ok with me owning them. They are small dogs who would get into too much if lose all day and sometimes get into small fights. I feel better knowing they can't get into anything when am gone.
> 
> There are many, many things that would render one unfit to have a dog but, for me, crating isn't it. Not by a long shot, not even at the end of the list.
> 
> ...


I think this is quite possibly, one of the best posts that has ever been made on this forum.

I can only like it once, but I'd like to "like" it 1000 times...and more.


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## FBarnes (Feb 17, 2013)

I guess it depends on what one's definition of "abuse" is.


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## Savage Destiny (Mar 16, 2011)

FBarnes said:


> I guess it depends on what one's definition of "abuse" is.


If you're trying to imply that people who crate their dogs are abusing them, I'd kindly advise you to get a grip. Holy crap.


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## FBarnes (Feb 17, 2013)

Savage Destiny said:


> If you're trying to imply that people who crate their dogs are abusing them, I'd kindly advise you to get a grip. Holy crap.


I am implying no such thing. I am outright saying if one crates their dog for alot of hours every day I consider it abusive, which I have already said on this thread so I didn't think it needed repeating. Apparently lots of people think it's fine. I find it interesting how people who crate for hours and hours get so defensive, offended, whatever it is they get about it when someone says they don't think it's just a dandy thing to do.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

I don't think being told you are abusive or should not have your dog are comments that are typically well received.


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## Kat (Jul 12, 2011)

I have the living room gated off from the rest of the apartment, so that is where the dogs stay. If no one is home for more than 30-60mins, my 7 month old Oscar is put into a big crate (it's made for large breed dogs) so he has space to move around and have toys. The most he is locked up is 6 hours, but my mom, sister, and me have schedules that work perfectly and the dogs are usually never alone for more than 2 hours


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## Savage Destiny (Mar 16, 2011)

FBarnes said:


> I am implying no such thing. I am outright saying if one crates their dog for alot of hours every day I consider it abusive, which I have already said on this thread so I didn't think it needed repeating. Apparently lots of people think it's fine. I find it interesting how people who crate for hours and hours get so defensive, offended, whatever it is they get about it when someone says they don't think it's just a dandy thing to do.


Telling me I'm abusing my dogs is sure as hell going to get me "defensive". You can disagree with crating all you like, but calling me abusive crosses a line. My dogs probably get more exercise, interaction, and stimulation than yours... Heck, Riddle won't even come out of her crate when we get home half the time, she likes her 4" orthopedic memory foam bed in there so much. 

I consider leaving dogs loose to eat things, get shot by home invaders, get blockages, chew cords, and expose themselves to other dangers to be irresponsible and just plain dumb. 

What is your daily exercise, training, and interaction routine with your dogs? Just out of curiosity...


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## FBarnes (Feb 17, 2013)

meggels said:


> I don't think being told you are abusive or should not have your dog are comments that are typically well received.


I never said anyone shouldn't have a dog, nor did I imply that. I also never said a person is abusive - I said I believe crating a dog for many hours is abusive. Besides, I would guess it would not be well received only if people really thought maybe they shouldn't be crating so long.

I use prong collars and people have told me a zillion times how I am cruel. It doesn't bother me a bit because I know they are wrong. If someone is perfectly fine with what they do, what someone says about it shouldn't bother them at all.


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## FBarnes (Feb 17, 2013)

Savage Destiny said:


> Telling me I'm abusing my dogs is sure as hell going to get me "defensive". You can disagree with crating all you like, but calling me abusive crosses a line. My dogs probably get more exercise, interaction, and stimulation than yours... Heck, Riddle won't even come out of her crate when we get home half the time, she likes her 4" orthopedic memory foam bed in there so much.
> 
> I consider leaving dogs loose to eat things, get shot by home invaders, get blockages, chew cords, and expose themselves to other dangers to be irresponsible and just plain dumb.
> 
> What is your daily exercise, training, and interaction routine with your dogs? Just out of curiosity...


I have an opinion. If you don't like it, I don't really care.


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## Savage Destiny (Mar 16, 2011)

FBarnes said:


> I never said anyone shouldn't have a dog, nor did I imply that. I also never said a person is abusive - I said I believe crating a dog for many hours is abusive. Besides, I would guess it would not be well received only if people really thought maybe they shouldn't be crating so long.
> 
> I use prong collars and people have told me a zillion times how I am cruel. It doesn't bother me a bit because I know they are wrong. If someone is perfectly fine with what they do, what someone says about it shouldn't bother them at all.


People are going to get riled up no matter what if you tell them they're abusive. I am fine with how my dogs are crated when I am not home- I KNOW they are safe when I am gone, there's nothing left to chance. That's solid peace of mind for me. 

You still didn't mention how much exercise and interaction your dogs get... 

Oh, and as a bonus... Here's poor abused Riddle, who I just went out and found chilling in her horrible crate after being in there all day while I was at work. Guess she wanted to snooze after her nearly 2 hour walk/stroller ride she got once I got home... She really looks stressed about it, doesn't she?


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## lauren43 (Feb 6, 2011)

FBarnes said:


> I am implying no such thing. I am outright saying if one crates their dog for alot of hours every day I consider it abusive, which I have already said on this thread so I didn't think it needed repeating. Apparently lots of people think it's fine. I find it interesting how people who crate for hours and hours get so defensive, offended, whatever it is they get about it when someone says they don't think it's just a dandy thing to do.



That's the problem, you don't know anyone on here personally and you are outright calling many of us dog abusers. I hope you realize that most of the ppl on this forum are exemplary dog owners. Many of us did our research before getting said dog, many of us spend hours a day working with and spending time with said dog, many of us take our animals where ever we can, some of these dogs have jobs outside of couch potato...

Judging is one thing, but before you call many of us cruel, take a look at your local CL or shelter or have a look at Petfinder...I'll bet about 50% of those dogs are homeless because someone didn't "have time for them"...you don't just have time for a dog you MAKE time for one, when you decide to become a dog owner.

And don't assume you know anyone's lifestyle. I have a 4 year degree an I'm still stuck at a dead end job that I hate but sometimes paying the bills is more important than loving your job. My dog is the absolute highlight of my life. Therefore if you are wondering why people maybe getting offended its because we are all doing the best we can for our dogs.


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## JLeigh (Jul 15, 2012)

kathylcsw said:


> It is hard NOT to be offended with a thread that starts out saying that I shouldn't have dogs because I do crate while we are at school/work. It would not have been offensive had OP stated that they would not have a dog if they had to crate it.


I did not start this thread by saying that people who crate their dogs should not own dogs. Later on in this thread, I questioned whether or not people who crate their dogs for _very long periods_ of time almost every day should own dogs. Is it really that unreasonable to wonder if someone who has to crate a dog for half of its waking life has the time to fully commit to a dog? I think it's a valid question. Nobody has to agree with me, but that doesn't mean it isn't a fair question. I promise you, if I posted on here that my dog was chained/caged in the yard for 8-10-12 hours a day 5 days a week, there would be a 13 page thread full of worry and outrage for my dog. I was also very careful to note that I wasn't referring to people who's dogs must be crated for their own safety.


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## JLeigh (Jul 15, 2012)

Savage Destiny said:


> T
> 
> I consider leaving dogs loose to eat things, get shot by home invaders, get blockages, chew cords, and expose themselves to other dangers to be irresponsible and just plain dumb.


Do you feel the same way about people who leave their cats loose? No snark intended; I'd honestly like to know your thoughts. Plenty of cats get into things, get blockages, chew cords, are at risk of getting hurt by home intruders, and expose themselves to other dangers, yet I don't know anyone who crates their cat when they go to work.


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## InkedMarie (Sep 9, 2011)

FBarnes said:


> I am implying no such thing. I am outright saying if one crates their dog for alot of hours every day I consider it abusive, which I have already said on this thread so I didn't think it needed repeating. Apparently lots of people think it's fine. I find it interesting how people who crate for hours and hours get so defensive, offended, whatever it is they get about it when someone says they don't think it's just a dandy thing to do.


So, say someone one thinks as you do and leaves their dogs loose. They go off to work, thinking their dog is some magical age and should be loose. They come home to a dead dog because of one of these reasons: they chewed through a power cord & got zapped, they got into the trash where someone left cooked bones and they ate them or worst, there was a fire, firemen came, saw the "save my dogs" sticker but couldn't find the dog.
Now, imagine the dog is safely crated. No cords within reach, same goes for the trash and the fire? Firemen got him out because they saw the crate and he couldn't hide.
I'd rather be considered abusive with dogs live & well. I'm pretty sure there are many forums tht would call me neglectful, maybe abusive if my dogs died from getting zapped or fom eating something dangerous in the trash. I've seen it, just not here


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## InkedMarie (Sep 9, 2011)

JLeigh said:


> Do you feel the same way about people who leave their cats loose? No snark intended; I'd honestly like to know your thoughts. Plenty of cats get into things, get blockages, chew cords, are at risk of getting hurt by home intruders, and expose themselves to other dangers, yet I don't know anyone who crates their cat when they go to work.


You didn't direct this at me but two weeks ago, a building burned, I don't know how many apartments were in there. It was caused by a cat knocking over a lamp. Cat died, along with another cat & a bird.


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## starturtle (Jul 12, 2012)

Wow, so it took me a while to get to the end of the thread and I don't remember who actually said what. My opinion on this is very similar to what someone stated. I don’t think it’s fair to crate your dog 10 hours while at work and then another 8 hours at night. Especially with very little exercise or attention in between. I understand certain circumstances may require this but at some point one would think other circumstances could be found. 

I am not knocking crating at all. My dogs were crated sometimes up to 10 hours a day for the first 4-5 years of their lives. At one point I was able to afford daycare but due to certain circumstances I had to stop. I tried leaving them out during the day and couch cushions, dog beds and pillows got destroyed. I was not fortunate enough to have a kitchen or laundry room or bathroom to contain them. 

When I was house hunting I purposely found a house that had the perfect dog room. Now my dogs stay in there while I am gone which is roughly between 9-10 hours a day. Their cages are all still in there, they get fed in them and will go into them when I home to nap. 

Unfortunately depending on the fosters I have, they sometimes are stuck in their cages 18 hours a day. Yes, it’s unfair but it’s temporary. It’s that or they get euthed or live as a stray. Like someone else said a few months won’t hurt them if it leads to a better life where they don’t have to live like that. 

I would love to leave my dogs out in the yard while I am at work, I am sure they would enjoy it. But, I am paranoid. I don’t trust people to take them, or harm them, or if they got out they could get hit by a car or lost. That is just me. I don’t see anything wrong with it as long as there is fresh water and shelter. 

I am in my late 30’s and I always remember my dogs and my family’s dogs being crated. Our dogs were never allowed to roam the neighbor hood and were never let out unsupervised unless the yard was fenced.


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## Herzo (Feb 5, 2011)

Starturtle yes this is one of those silly threads I was talking about in another thread. Not sure when it went off and I am not going to go through it all again. I have been reading it as it has been happening and have missed some.

Goodness I think some of you have taken things wrong or I have really missed something. You see everyone.... some people just take things wrong..... I think because I am sure when the mention of long hours of crating came up FBarnes or whom ever said it meant real long hours. Just like chaining a dog (I believe someone mentioned that ) if it has a dog house and is not chained 24/7 I myself see nothing wrong with it.

It's just different opinion's and still where you live. I myself do not worry about someone coming over and poisoning my dogs. I keep to myself and try not to start wars with my neighbors. Yes things happen and they happen to all of us......now lets take a breath.


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

Wow, someone made a statement of what they thought. We are all allowed our own way of raising our dogs. I understand being hurt by a post but getting angry and defensive tends to shut down communication. We all believe what we are doing is best and for our dogs it probably is. If you don't want someone commenting on how you do something I would not post about it. I know what I am talking about here - LOL Being an NR breeder I am probably most extreme on this site in my views, beliefs and practices. I have taken down information I don't feel like fighting anyone about and now only post things that really need no defense. Anything detailed can be shared more privately. It certainly helps keep hurt feelings at bay. It also helps to be totally comfortable with how you care for your animal - if you are secure you will not feel as defensive. It would be nice to see this site back to the enjoyable forum it once was.  JMHO


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## FBarnes (Feb 17, 2013)

InkedMarie said:


> So, say someone one thinks as you do and leaves their dogs loose. They go off to work, thinking their dog is some magical age and should be loose. They come home to a dead dog because of one of these reasons: they chewed through a power cord & got zapped, they got into the trash where someone left cooked bones and they ate them or worst, there was a fire, firemen came, saw the "save my dogs" sticker but couldn't find the dog.
> Now, imagine the dog is safely crated. No cords within reach, same goes for the trash and the fire? Firemen got him out because they saw the crate and he couldn't hide.
> I'd rather be considered abusive with dogs live & well. I'm pretty sure there are many forums tht would call me neglectful, maybe abusive if my dogs died from getting zapped or fom eating something dangerous in the trash. I've seen it, just not here


I live in the country. By the time someone noticed the fire, called it in, and the fire dept got there the house would be burned down. As far as I know, there aren't any electrical cords in the yard for my dog to chew through. 

Besides, unlike some of you who get so upset when someone doesn't approve of what you do, I don't really care what people think of how I leave my dogs. My dogs, my decision. Who gives a rat's behind what people on the internet think of it?


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## FBarnes (Feb 17, 2013)

lauren43 said:


> That's the problem, you don't know anyone on here personally and you are outright calling many of us dog abusers.


No I don't. In fact, I never said YOU. I said I think it's cruel to leave a dog crated for many hours. You are the one who took it personally.


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## InkedMarie (Sep 9, 2011)

FBarnes said:


> I live in the country. By the time someone noticed the fire, called it in, and the fire dept got there the house would be burned down. As far as I know, there aren't any electrical cords in the yard for my dog to chew through.
> 
> Besides, unlike some of you who get so upset when someone doesn't approve of what you do, I don't really care what people think of how I leave my dogs. My dogs, my decision. Who gives a rat's behind what people on the internet think of it?


Not everyone who is reading lives in the country. I don't give a sh*t what anyone thinks about how I care for my dogs. I gave up caring what anyone thinks about me thirty years ago. There are people reading who may care. They may crate their dogs, read what you say and think they're doing wrong. Unless the dog is crated 20 hrs a day, they're not doing wrong.


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## FBarnes (Feb 17, 2013)

InkedMarie said:


> Not everyone who is reading lives in the country. I don't give a sh*t what anyone thinks about how I care for my dogs. I gave up caring what anyone thinks about me thirty years ago. There are people reading who may care. They may crate their dogs, read what you say and think they're doing wrong. Unless the dog is crated 20 hrs a day, they're not doing wrong.


So 18 hours is ok? 14? 12?

I don't let my dogs roam the countryside while I am gone. Living in the country has nothing to do with anything except there isn't a fire hydrant within miles of my house and theres no fire dept two blocks away.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

kathylcsw said:


> It is hard NOT to be offended with a thread that starts out saying that I shouldn't have dogs because I do crate while we are at school/work. It would not have been offensive had OP stated that they would not have a dog if they had to crate it. My dogs are out all the time we are home and sleep with me at night. They are happy, healthy, well adjusted dogs who I feel certain are ok with me owning them. They are small dogs who would get into too much if lose all day and sometimes get into small fights. I feel better knowing they can't get into anything when am gone.
> 
> There are many, many things that would render one unfit to have a dog but, for me, crating isn't it. Not by a long shot, not even at the end of the list.
> 
> ...


when people work rescue and see crated animals whose feet never touch the ground, would you agree the perspective could be different? 

just my personal opinion, but i would not have a dog if i had to crate all day. or chain all day or confine all day. 

sure, they'd have each other, but i have to consider why i got dogs in the first place.

i am one who would not crate a dog for more than 4-6 hours tops....and it would be the exception, not the rule.

i'm sad that people are offended by this thread. the OP was strong in the stating of the opinion.......granted...and opinions since then have been passionate. but we crazy dog people are a passionate group. 

we feel differently. we feed differently. we treat our dogs differently. some are outside. some are not on the couch or in the bed. some are left in kitchens or gated off. some are crated for a period of time. that length of time is something i consider when i think about getting and keeping a dog.


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## kathylcsw (Jul 31, 2011)

magicre said:


> when people work rescue and see crated animals whose feet never touch the ground, would you agree the perspective could be different?
> 
> just my personal opinion, but i would not have a dog if i had to crate all day. or chain all day or confine all day.
> 
> ...


I read these posts and I think that if some people had their way only about 200 people in the world would meet their stringent requirements to have a dog. That would certainly cut the dog population way down as there would be no homes. I will say what I have said time and time again - there are many ways to be a good dog owner and what works for one person may not work for another. I am certain that my dogs would choose to stay with me crate and all. Do I think it is ideal? No but so few things in life are. I do not feel qualified to judge how others interact with their dogs but maybe I am in the minority?


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

kathylcsw said:


> I read these posts and I think that if some people had their way only about 200 people in the world would meet their stringent requirements to have a dog. That would certainly cut the dog population way down as there would be no homes. I will say what I have said time and time again - there are many ways to be a good dog owner and what works for one person may not work for another. I am certain that my dogs would choose to stay with me crate and all. Do I think it is ideal? No but so few things in life are. I do not feel qualified to judge how others interact with their dogs but maybe I am in the minority?


i can see i did not word this how i wanted to word my statement. it was a personal opinion. for how i would conduct my life, not a judgment nor condemnation on how others should live their lives.


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

The world is not black and white. 

I love crating. We have a dog with separation anxiety who has unfortunately destroyed her last crate (working on it). So instead we crate her best buddy in the room with her and leave her loose in the dog room because she is happier that way and safer. Gunner also doesn't mind being crated. Its just another place to be lazy. Sprocket is crated or placed in the office. Mikey is usually left loose in the house. 

Jody (SA dog) sleeps in a crate at night but she cannot be left in a crate alone during the day. Fortunately Drew is allowed to take her to work with him. 

If the dog is properly taken care of, then crating is NOT the end of the world. It is a wonderful useful tool for many responsible dog owners.


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## tuckersmom20 (Dec 12, 2010)

I use to crate my boys.... like many others, Duke had really bad separation anxiety.

I trusted him once, and came home to something i swear someone broke in and did. Nope.. it was the duke storm.
From that point on, he was crated when we went to work... NOW, almost 2 years later, he has gained freedom.
In our house there are no crates, but there are gates.

When Tucker was younger, i tried leaving him out... 24 hours later he was in emergency surgery cause he ate his toy.
2 Years after that, he now has full freedom... he has grown up and when i do work.. i put a webcam on and watch them from work.

Crates are good if used properly. Banishing a dog to it for hours upon hours 10+ hours... isnt good.
A regular work day i have no problem, because even when i watched him from work.... he was sleeping and couldnt care that he was in his crate.


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## Savage Destiny (Mar 16, 2011)

JLeigh said:


> Do you feel the same way about people who leave their cats loose? No snark intended; I'd honestly like to know your thoughts. Plenty of cats get into things, get blockages, chew cords, are at risk of getting hurt by home intruders, and expose themselves to other dangers, yet I don't know anyone who crates their cat when they go to work.


Really, yes. Sadly, I got all my cats before I realized how dangerous leaving them loose was. Now they would all freak out if I tried to confine them, most notably the 14 year old. However, if I get another kitten in the future, that kitten will be either trained to stay in a large cage or empty room while we're gone. I feel marginally better leaving my cats loose because they don't have as much drive to eat stuff, chew, or destroy things as dogs do. But I'm terrified of a house fire and the firemen not being able to find my cats. Home invasions scare me too- the cats could escape out a door left open, and I know for a fact my old lady cat would attack an intruder. I do what I can by unplugging literally everything that can be unplugged- the only exceptions are things like the fridge, the freezers, and the AC unit keeping them cool in the summer. I also have child locks on all the cupboards containing food, chemicals, garbage, etc. The fridge and freezers are duct taped shut.


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## flashyfawn (Mar 8, 2012)

I have worked in rescue and seen the dogs who have never felt grass under their feet and yes, I do agree that it makes you want to hate crating. But then when I worked for a trainer we had people who were ready to give their dogs up to a rescue because the dogs weren't house trained or were chewing stuff during the day. We crate trained those dogs and they were able to happily stay in their homes, safely crated during the day. A crate is a tool, and like any tool, it can be used or abused. I highly doubt that anyone who is taking the time and interest to post on an internet forum about dogs is abusing the crate.

My dogs are not crated and never were. My younger dog Madison came from an home where she was literally thrown into a crate and screamed at, so yeah, that's abuse of both a crate and a dog, so no crate for her. When I used to foster dogs, I crate trained all of them and the vast majority of them were going to be crated when they were adopted into new homes. People adopting a dog who needed a crate did understand about adequate exercise, time limits for crating, etc. My own dogs (who had never seen a crate) were quite curious about it at first and Zoey decided it was a pretty cool thing. I no longer foster but I still have once crate and actually that's where Zoey is sleeping right now. It's old and rickety and I threw out the door panel, but she loves it.

I think everyone has their priorities about what is acceptable and what's not. For me personally, I would never leave my dogs outside when I'm not home. Dog theft has been known to happen here and I definitely don't live in a high crime, sketchy area. I would die if I left my dogs outside and they were gone when I came home. But I totally get that for someone else, leaving the dogs outside is perfectly okay and not risky. Just like feeding, exercising, training, etc--it just depends and there is no one right answer for every person and every dog.


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

I have to question why dogs at an older age still chew and destroy things, I would think something is missing if this is still happening?


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## Celt (Dec 27, 2010)

I saw this really cool outdoor kennel. It had a fenced in section that connected to a housewith a porch (not a regular doghouse, more like akids playhouse), had a roof on it, and a concrete floor. I think this would be a safe alternative to crating. One could padlock the gate, the dog could choose outside or inside, and be able to run around a bit.


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## GoingPostal (Sep 5, 2011)

whiteleo said:


> I have to question why dogs at an older age still chew and destroy things, I would think something is missing if this is still happening?


Missing like what? I don't know about other dogs but one of mine especially loves to chew and destroy soft things, blankets, dog beds, pillows, stuffed toys, not just if we are gone either so obviously I don't leave her loose because she'd probably eat my bed or something. Plus she isn't 100% on holding it, anything put in her crate that can be ripped up she will or possibly peed on, there for a bit she'd figured out how to kick the crate pan out to pee on the carpet. Both behaviors are ton better than when I got her, she can be unattended if I am just showering or doing things in another room but don't trust her long term loose yet. She gets an antler and nylabone in her crate and no bed. My male was a chewer when we adopted him but he was only about a year old and doesn't chew inappropriately now, will grab a sock or something if revved up at worst. He is crated because he is calm and quiet that way, left loose alone he will try to escape the room and cry. My oldest dog doesn't chew at all, never has, and doesn't seem to care about chew toys much but the other 2 love them and really just seem to enjoy that as an outlet.


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

I don't know what would be missing, just an assumption I guess as I have two B.T.'s that don't do anything like their counterparts. I know you feed raw but could there be something missing in their diet? Cayenne as a puppy did the normal chewing as did Leo when I rescued him at 11 months, but none of those behaviors continued after I'd say 14 months.


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## GoingPostal (Sep 5, 2011)

The bad chewer has only been raw fed 6 months, had her 1.5 years. She's a troublemaker lol but I know she's been dumped 3 or more times by the time we got her and she was pretty untrained overall.


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## BearMurphy (Feb 29, 2012)

whiteleo said:


> I have to question why dogs at an older age still chew and destroy things, I would think something is missing if this is still happening?


guess you never had a big chewer. a lot of labs will destroy soft toys even as adults or ingest something inedible that has food remnants on it. I will say that my dog stopped wanting to chew thing when I switched to raw so I could see how that could help curb the behavior


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## GoingPostal (Sep 5, 2011)

After a year I tried her with a bed again, she did this in a matter of minutes with me 2 rooms over, thankfully she doesn't eat stuff she rips up but if it's food or smells like it she will. Had to drag dirty paper towels out of her mouth when she ripped up the garbage one time.


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

BearMurphy said:


> guess you never had a big chewer. a lot of labs will destroy soft toys even as adults or ingest something inedible that has food remnants on it. I will say that my dog stopped wanting to chew thing when I switched to raw so I could see how that could help curb the behavior


No, and it is so ironic since Bull Terriers are known to have zipper surgeries. I know one dog who has had three due to eating things she shouldn't. They will tear up toys which is fine but things they aren't suppose to get into they don't. No garbage guts here although they love food. I do believe it is the diet.


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## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

I suppose I am one of the cruel ones. I crate all three of mine when I'm not home and have left the adults (before we had the pup) home alone for 7-8 hours about three whole times in the past two years. 

Dude is crated because he is an intact male who wasn't housebroken until he was 7 years old as my parents did not allow him in the house (I was 13 when I got him). He doesn't pee in the house when we're there but I just don't trust him to roam loose in the house without us there. He doesn't chew things which is nice. He sometimes barks for a few minutes then settles down to take a nap.

Buck is crated because he will tear the blinds up in the windows. It's not so much SA as it is not wanting to be left out but he's getting better. Maybe one day he will be allowed to be loose as he is not a chewer either (unless it's a wad of paper, then he will happily shred it to pieces. Once they are small enough he leaves them and walks away). Buck howls until he hears the car start. Then he gives up because he knows he's not going with (hence the reason I don't think it's SA).

Iorveth is crated because he is 4.5 months old. Puppies SHOULD be crated or confined in a safe area as they don't know what to chew and what not to chew yet. Iorveth's breed is known for being chewers for the first year or so and it's just not worth it to me to leave him loose and risk him getting into something that could harm him. He will put his mouth on anything I haven't told him not to touch. He typically doesn't bark at all when we leave. His crate is the same size as the big boys' crates and he just stretches out and sleeps. 

My dogs are taken with us more often than they are left at home and we generally only leave them home if we're going out to dinner ( a rarity for us), a movie, or to the grocery store, etc. They come with us 90% of the time. When they are left home alone it's typically never for longer than three hours. Because I don't have to leave my dogs in a crate for 8+ hours several days a week I don't have an issue with crating. If I worked away from home and had to leave them like that I think I would look for another solution but I don't so that is not something I need to worry about. 

IMO, to each his own. If you don't want to crate and want to leave your dogs out back and you are aware of the risks then so be it. That is not one I am willing to do and Nick would never allow it as his Golden was poisoned by some teenage kids. We also have 4 foot tall chain link fences that everyone but Dude could escape from if they so chose. They know better than to do so but our yard, while fenced, just isn't suitable for leaving them outside. Not to mention that all three are intact. Don't want any oops puppies! Our neighborhood also has a rule that dogs cannot be left outside if no one is home (might be a government housing thing, I don't know). On the other hand, my grandfather has and has had multiple dogs (4 Dobermans and a Rottweiler) who lived loose on ten acres and no one had anything happen to them. Tiny, the Rottweiler, died from old age in her teens. Angel (Doberman) died from bloat and Xena (Doberman) died from cancer. His current two Doberman girls will be two soon. Different people are just comfortable with different containment methods. I am comfortable with crating.


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## kathylcsw (Jul 31, 2011)

My son is home sick today so my dogs have the option of being out of their crates. Guess what? Buster has been in his crate sleeping all morning anyway with the door open. Apparently he doesn't know what an awful owner I am and that he he is being cruelly mistreated because I crate while we are gone. Silly boy.


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## flashyfawn (Mar 8, 2012)

kathylcsw said:


> Apparently he doesn't know what an awful owner I am and that he he is being cruelly mistreated because I crate while we are gone. Silly boy.


He's been brainwashed. :laugh:


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## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

flashyfawn said:


> He's been brainwashed. :laugh:


I have no idea why but that made me giggle.


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