# I'm at the end of my rope - I need help!



## JesseS (Jun 6, 2013)

I have a 6 month old bully breed. 
I have trained countless dogs because I fostered for a long time. 
And I have trained other bully breeds. 

With my own, I am at the end of my rope. 

He won't listen at all. 
He chews things ( gets them from my table and counters when I'm not looking) 
He dosent care about his punishments, he wags his tail throughout. 
He has no respect for my home. 
I can not leave this dog unsupervised for 2 mins, otherwise he is doing something with my back turned. 

I need some help! 

I have kennelled him a lot because I can't trust him! 
But I feel like he has been in his kennel for 4-5 days now! ( not the entire time but in and out) 
Now he is going to the bathroom in his kennel even though I take him for lots of bathroom breaks.
The moment he is out - he starts causing trouble! 

Is this a "age" thing? 
I haven't had this many problems with a dog ever!! Ever!! 

I have tried walking him
Kennelling him
Restricting his space in the home. 
Keeping him off "high" places 
Walking behind me through doors/stairs
Training for 30 mins a day with commands ( which he learnt all! But dosent listen if he dosent want to) 

I can not go to obidiance classes due to money /transport. 

Please, extra tips would be helpful and much appreciated!


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## lauren43 (Feb 6, 2011)

What are his punishments?

As far as stealing things off the counter, every single time they find something up there worth playing with and/or eating, they are self reinforcing the behavior. With a dog that's doing it constantly you have to be extra super vigilant that nothing is left on the counters.

How often are you yelling at him? Or telling him no, or don't do that, or get out of here? The more times you use these words the less they mean to him.

I think first and foremost you have a very high energy intelligent puppy on your hands. You need to start by getting him at least 1+ hour of hard core exercise per day. He may need to be ran for an hour a day, strenuous play with another dog for an hour, perhaps see if he will take to a flirt pole.

He should not be unsupervised, ever. When I first got Avery he was never out of my sight, if I took a shower he was in the bathroom with me. Some people even suggest tying one end of the leash to you and the other to him.

I think you should start daily putting 15 small treats in your pocket and try to get through all of them in one day. While he is out reward him for the any of the good things he did during the day. That could be as simple as sitting or laying down periodically. Any behavior you'd like to see repeated, reward. I find sometimes we get too focused on the negative and forget to reward the positive. We also spend so much time telling them what we don't want them to do and not enough time telling them what behaviors are acceptable. 

You say the second he is out he starts causing trouble, but perhaps he has realized its the best way to get your attention.


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## GoingPostal (Sep 5, 2011)

I would say more exercise and you need to make a dog safe space or get a puppy pen to put him in when you can't watch him. Walks aren't much workout, does he fetch or would he like a springpole or flirtpole to play with? You should be able to tucker him out and bring him inside, give him a frozen stuffed kong, antler, raw bone, something that will take him awhile to chew on and give him something to do. I would only feed him out of work to eat toys. Leash him to you if you are home and doing stuff, clean off your counters so there is nothing to grab as well. Remember as well it is much easier to prevent a behavior than correct it once it's a habit.


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## bridget246 (Oct 26, 2011)

To add on what has already been said. No more punishments. It is too early to be adding that. When your not there with him he needs to be kenneled. Keep that leash on him at all times when he is out of the kennel. Find out what his favorite games are. I wouldn't run him for a hour if he isn't use to running and at that age. Short runs and long walks where the speed is switch throughout. Don't be afraid to bring a toy along with you for the walk and if he wants to hold onto a toy, if his behavior is good then let him. Reward him with play when he isn't pulling or trying to go in every other direction but the one your going in. Positive rewards general bring out faster behavior changes than negative ones. I only say general because I've come across some good old school trainers who completely understood how to use negative reinforcement. But even for these people, this negative reinforcement never lasted more than a second, if even that long. The timing required for it is what kept me from doing it as I find the positive behavior changes methods to give me a larger window to reinforce the correct behavior. Bridget would give me about 2 seconds to reward her for the correct behavior before trying something else which meant I had to get that reward out fast or find a marker word so I could mark the behavior I wanted.


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

So, to be clear what Bully Breed are you talking about? Because yes. it does matter


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## Celt (Dec 27, 2010)

Sounds like you have a smart puppy with energy to burn so kenneling could actually be working against you. Afterall, if you have lots of energy but can't use it then get "freedom" you'll get complete "madness". If it were me, I would leash him to me then go about my business (I don't spend a lot of time sitting still though, I'm a bit "jittery). Teach "silly" tricks that will get him thinking and moving (spin, dance, bounce) then combine them. Lots of walks and games. When you see him with something he shouldn't have, teach him bring it and give (make sure to trade for a "treat"). I'm doing this with my newest pup, she works for being praised (of course when she wants attention, she finds things to bring to me). You need to spend a lot of time "playing" and walking (I don't like running pups, outside of playing), tired dogs are good dogs. What punishments do you use and when? Give him something to do during "quiet" times (chew toy, long lasting snack). Short training is better than long 'cause it can get boring quick for smart dogs. Being "boss" means you have to "direct" activities which means keeping youngsters busy thinking and moving, and slowly introducing quiet times without being tired. If you don't keep him busy then he'll find stuff to do and that generally means getting in trouble.


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## SuperPug (Mar 5, 2013)

I agree, what bully breed is this?
I have a friend who has a Bull Terrier, and her beginning issues sounded alot like what you have listed. Both of her bull terriers have endless amounts of energy and they constantly run her tired. I do think the key here is getting out that overflowed energy he has.

Have you even tried rewarding behavior you want? Like sleeping on the floor. Playing with his toys. etc. I also wouldn't yell at him, crate him as punishment or use really any negative punishment. You dog really has no understanding of it. He just knows your mad at him for some reason and is displaying displacement signals because he is upset with your negative reaction.


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## FBarnes (Feb 17, 2013)

Isn't it Kimberly that takes her bullies on something like four hour walks every day and it still doesn't tire them out?


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## JesseS (Jun 6, 2013)

Hello all, I am going to try and answer everyone's questions. 

I have a amercian pitbull terroir. 

That being said, I do walk him for 1 - 2 hours a day. And I also have other dogs so they play consistently with one another  
I have read that running him at this age can cause problems as they are still doing so much growing. I'm a bit stand off ish to run him incase I hurt him. 

I take him out with me as much as possible  
But I do work from home, so when I am with clients he has to be kennelled because of his "naughty" behaviours. On busy days, I don't have a option not too or to tie him to me while working. 

I have tried attaching his leash to me - and he fights it like a mad man. Maybe I should just not give in at all? And if I am working dose this still work? 

When I correct him it is with positive things. And the worst is "go lay down" or "go to your house" (kennell) I don't hit or use force. 

I have forced him into "lay" and "sit" when he will not listen at all! And he dose know all of his commands. Other then that no force is used in my home. 

I can walk him and play for hours a day, and it seems like he naps for 30mins and is ready to go again. I wish I had the time to walk him again, byt I do have to work. Lol. As we all do.  

Have any of you tried the attached leash? And how did it work? Did they fight you? 

Also, he is always kennelled when I'm away from the home. He acts like a naughty boy only when I'm not looking. 
I can keep things mostly cleaned off, but with work, someone my table is my work place. I guess I can just clear it, but dose this teach him to stay off of it? Or just prevent it until he has a opportunity? 

Thanks guys!!


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## JesseS (Jun 6, 2013)

lauren43 said:


> What are his punishments?
> 
> As far as stealing things off the counter, every single time they find something up there worth playing with and/or eating, they are self reinforcing the behavior. With a dog that's doing it constantly you have to be extra super vigilant that nothing is left on the counters.
> 
> ...



I agree with you regarding most of what you say  
Only thing is I do give him lots of attention. 
But I like and am going to try to use your 15 treats menthod and see if that helps! He is very good motivated


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## JesseS (Jun 6, 2013)

SuperPug said:


> I agree, what bully breed is this?
> I have a friend who has a Bull Terrier, and her beginning issues sounded alot like what you have listed. Both of her bull terriers have endless amounts of energy and they constantly run her tired. I do think the key here is getting out that overflowed energy he has.
> 
> Have you even tried rewarding behavior you want? Like sleeping on the floor. Playing with his toys. etc. I also wouldn't yell at him, crate him as punishment or use really any negative punishment. You dog really has no understanding of it. He just knows your mad at him for some reason and is displaying displacement signals because he is upset with your negative reaction.



I have rewarded him for lots of commands and when he follows through  
But I havent tried for behaviours I consider "expected" 
Do you think this will work? Or will he just think he is getting treats all day?


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## JesseS (Jun 6, 2013)

Celt said:


> Sounds like you have a smart puppy with energy to burn so kenneling could actually be working against you. Afterall, if you have lots of energy but can't use it then get "freedom" you'll get complete "madness". If it were me, I would leash him to me then go about my business (I don't spend a lot of time sitting still though, I'm a bit "jittery). Teach "silly" tricks that will get him thinking and moving (spin, dance, bounce) then combine them. Lots of walks and games. When you see him with something he shouldn't have, teach him bring it and give (make sure to trade for a "treat"). I'm doing this with my newest pup, she works for being praised (of course when she wants attention, she finds things to bring to me). You need to spend a lot of time "playing" and walking (I don't like running pups, outside of playing), tired dogs are good dogs. What punishments do you use and when? Give him something to do during "quiet" times (chew toy, long lasting snack). Short training is better than long 'cause it can get boring quick for smart dogs. Being "boss" means you have to "direct" activities which means keeping youngsters busy thinking and moving, and slowly introducing quiet times without being tired. If you don't keep him busy then he'll find stuff to do and that generally means getting in trouble.



I agree! I do feel kennelling is not helpful! But like I said, I can't trust him out on his own. And as I don't hit or use force, it's my punishment as well. 
Any ideas on a new punishment that is potlsitive? 

He is a very strong willed young man lol!


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## Celt (Dec 27, 2010)

On keeping him attached to you, make sure that he has enough leash to lay on his side with the leash loose, then pick a day when you can be "distracted" by him. Leash him to you, then go about doing things, if he struggles, just keep going, ignore him, when he calms praise/treat him. It might take most of the day before he "realizes" that he's "stuck" and you'll be sore and probably a bit frustrated. Remember to breathe and keep your cool. If he tries to pull you towards where you want to go, say his name, then turn (around/right angle) til he stops. Depending on how strong willed he is, it might take a couple of days to settle him to being attached to you. You'll need to work his brain, give him things to think on. Exercise is good but if it's the same ol' same old, it's not as effective as it could be. My pups aren't energizer bunnies but they are exhausted after a couple of hours at the dog park where as play time with each other and a couple of hour walks just mellows them out. As far as punishment, I usually end up with "logical consequnces" kind of things. If they pull one way, they end up either not moving (and with some "choking" themselves) or heading in another direction. If I give a command and it's not followed then they lose the treat/my attention ( I don't use treats a lot though). Lay an "interesting" scent trail in your yard, borrow someone's pet to walk around, if you could get an "exotic" that would be extra lovely or drag a scent lure ("fur/feathers" that hasn't been treated and still has the "natural scent"). Surprise him with a sudden game of tug/wrestle/fetch. Have him go over "chair jumps" between doing commands. Get one of the movement triggered squeaky mice toys for cats, wrap it in a towel/blanket (stuff it into something) and have him find it, and bring it to you. When you have a smart, energetic dog, you have double (if not triple) the work because if their brain's not tired, they aren't truely tired out.


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## lauren43 (Feb 6, 2011)

JesseS said:


> Hello all, I am going to try and answer everyone's questions.
> 
> I have a amercian pitbull terroir.
> 
> ...


When I said run I meant you just need to get that excess energy out. A 1hr walk is probably not going to do the trick for a high energy dog. Also longlining is sometimes better than leash walking because they can run and smell (ie use more energy). 



JesseS said:


> I take him out with me as much as possible
> But I do work from home, so when I am with clients he has to be kennelled because of his "naughty" behaviours. On busy days, I don't have a option not too or to tie him to me while working.


From what you are describing he is not kenneled as much as you say?



JesseS said:


> When I correct him it is with positive things. And the worst is "go lay down" or "go to your house" (kennel) I don't hit or use force.


What does he do when you say these things?



JesseS said:


> I have forced him into "lay" and "sit" when he will not listen at all! And he does know all of his commands. Other then that no force is used in my home.


This will hurt him more than running him. The force you put on their joints when you make them sit or lay down is more than you think. It sounds to me that his cues (I have a thing against the word command) are not under stimulus control. There are 4 aspects to stimulus control (1) He responds correctly to the cue (2) He doesn't give the behavior in absence of the cue (3) He doesn't give the behavior in response to some other cue (4) No other behavior occurs in response to this cue. Also dogs are very aware of their surroundings, so if you trained "sit" in the living room and have been practicing it there most of the time. Then when you take him outside the cue "sit" really doesn't mean anything to him. You have to sometimes start from scratch when training in areas where your dog has never been. Ever try giving your dog a cue while laying on the floor? What does your dog do? I bet they don't respond correctly to the cue because you just changed the way it was given. We all get stuck in this mind set that if the dog responds to a cue pretty regularly they "know" it. But until they can do it anywhere and with you in any position they do not "know" it.



JesseS said:


> I can walk him and play for hours a day, and it seems like he naps for 30mins and is ready to go again. I wish I had the time to walk him again, byt I do have to work. Lol. As we all do.
> 
> Have any of you tried the attached leash? And how did it work? Did they fight you?
> 
> ...


What do you mean naughty? Just getting into things? That is very normal puppy behavior, but the bigger deal you make out of it the more fun it is for him. As for attaching the leash in the house I would start by just treating, treating, treating when you first put it on. Any struggle, shove a treat in his face.

As far as the table goes, as I said before its a self rewarding behavior. Every single time he finds something on the table he has rewarded himself. Now if every time he jumps on the table there is nothing up there, the table is going to become very boring and uninteresting. And in theory you should see an extinction of the behavior. "I jump on table" "Nothing up there :-(" "I jump on table" "Nothing up there :-(""I jump on table" "Nothing up there :-(""I jump on table" "Nothing up there :-(" He will probably start doing it more often when he stops getting rewarded for it. Then he will start to realize, there is no reason to jump on table.


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## Tobi (Mar 18, 2011)

Yeah it's Kim that is driven nuts sometimes in the winter with her Bullies lol! I don't envy not running mine in the winter... First and foremost, an American pitbull terrier screams I need a TON of exercise to stay mentally stable... I had a pitty, boxer mix and it took 4-5 hours of exercise per day to keep her sane,and me... Walking to a dog is not exercise unless they are obese or fat, dogs in nature walk for hours per day without fatigue, it is in their genes to constantly be foraging and moving.

Tobi needs 2-3 hours of exercise a day, it's as simple as that, if he doesn't get it, you can tell because he is raising hell somewhere out of sight. Counter surfing is a fact of life, keep things back from the edges and don't let anything high value stay there. Dogs are opportunistic, if you give them the opportunity they will surely take it if proper boundaries are not in place, it sounds like you may either be using a method of training that doesn't work for him, doing it wrong or not doing enough of it... Training 6-8 times in 10-15 minute intervals to me is more beneficial than A single 30 minute spurt they will simply lose interest.

A properly set up line system, such as an overhead line with a decent run on it would be beneficial, so long as it is secure, fenced, a shaded area within reach, water, and a cave, or house.

Some other forms of exercise you can use if you're pressed for time

Spring pole
Flirt pole
Laser pointer
Mind games
Hide and seek

I made a spring pole for mine and I put the directions up on the forum, if you're interested I can send you the link if you can't find it.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

I had bull terrier's on my list of "dogs I'd like to own one day". But good god, after reading yours and Kim's posts about them, they scare the hell out of me  Still think they are adorable, but man...I love my frenchie LOL.


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## SuperPug (Mar 5, 2013)

Randomly rewarding wanted behaviors can help greatly as well as removing any items he would "steal" when not being watched. The item is removed, thus he won't have anything to self reward with. He may find something else, but do the same thing. Remove the item/you remove the self reward. Do take him out much more often. He is a high energy dog and thus needs to live a high active life to keep stable.


Lastly, don't force your dog to do anything. Even a simple sit or lay down. He maybe bored and wanting to do something more fun/rewarding. Forcing your dog into a sit or down can have adverse affects on their body. Do it enough and you can cause damage. My best friend's dog is suffering from joint issues early on because she used to force his bum into a sit.


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## Tobi (Mar 18, 2011)

meggels said:


> I had bull terrier's on my list of "dogs I'd like to own one day". But good god, after reading yours and Kim's posts about them, they scare the hell out of me  Still think they are adorable, but man...I love my frenchie LOL.


Aww they aren't THAT bad lol!

They are pretty awesome, I love tobi so much, and he shows me how much he loves me with nose bleeds, split lips, half torn off toe nails, and foot sized bruises on most of my body... It's a good relationship. With exercise they are awesome, but like most terriers, they do need stimulation, and they need a curb to their destructoid behaviors, lots of it. Tobi is pretty relaxed in comparison to many.


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## SuperPug (Mar 5, 2013)

Tobi said:


> Aww they aren't THAT bad lol!
> 
> They are pretty awesome, I love tobi so much, and he shows me how much he loves me with nose bleeds, split lips, half torn off toe nails, and foot sized bruises on most of my body... It's a good relationship. With exercise they are awesome, but like most terriers, they do need stimulation, and they need a curb to their destructoid behaviors, lots of it. Tobi is pretty relaxed in comparison to many.


haha
I'm good. I'll stick to the dogs who cannot control their "licker"


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

meggels said:


> I had bull terrier's on my list of "dogs I'd like to own one day". But good god, after reading yours and Kim's posts about them, they scare the hell out of me  Still think they are adorable, but man...I love my frenchie LOL.


I wouldn't give mine up for anything in the world, they are not for the faint of heart but boy when they love and emote, there is nothing better than that. I'd never own another breed of dog you see as they aren't dogs at all but dog aliens.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

Haha. Don't get me wrong, I think they are SO cute. I just know I couldn't give them what they need. So instead, I will live vicariously through you guys and just laugh at your stories and cute pics 

The frenchie really is pretty perfect for me. It's nice when you find that perfect fit. And robin, that's how I feel too! There's no other like the frenchie...it's like living with this cute pig/gremlin/dog hybrid LOL.


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## SuperPug (Mar 5, 2013)

hhhmmmmm
Maybe my next dog will be a Frenchie instead of a Labrador


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

SuperPug said:


> hhhmmmmm
> Maybe my next dog will be a Frenchie instead of a Labrador


Those are two very opposite dogs LOL!


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## Savage Destiny (Mar 16, 2011)

What you are describing is an under stimulated, under exercised APBT. Riddle was exactly like that at 6 months. And let me tell you... it's not going to get easier for a while. A leashed walk is not enough. Playing in the yard with your other dogs is not enough. Before Riddle's health issues, I could take her for a 4 hour off leash hike, swim her for a couple hours, take her to a friend's and let her play hard with their dogs for a couple more hours, and she'd still be demanding more, more, more. 

Get a flirt pole and start wearing him out with that. Off leash running (in a safe, enclosed area) is actually better than leashed exercise. Off leash, he can choose his own speed, slow down if he wants to, stop if he wants to, etc. That's easier on his joints. On leash he's forced to go at one speed even if he wants to go faster or slower. I'd also start making him work for his food- either with puzzle toys or feeding meals as training treats and doing training sessions. Mental stimulation goes a long way. Teach him "find it" and hide toys in the living room so he has to find them. Get that brain working! 

I used to leash Riddle to me. If she wasn't leashed, she was getting into something in the house. If he fights it, ignore him. He needs to learn he's not in charge here. 

Invest in a treadmill and start training him on it now. He can't run on it much at his age, but once he's older he can and it will be a lifesaver. We have a carpet mill we use twice daily in the winter.


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## doggiedad (Jan 23, 2011)

walk him more often and train while walking. i find training in short sessions works best for me.
i train for 5 to 10 minutes each session but i conduct many sessions during the course of a day.
i train indoors and outside. indoors i play "tug", "find it" and reinforce commands. 

make sure your dog can hear.


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