# Breed specific formulas?



## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

Do people actually feed those? I was with Tess in Petsmart today to see the greyhounds up for adoption (they do an adoption drive here sometimes..) and there was a sales rep table set up for Royal Canin breed specific formula foods.. the rep pet Tessie and asked what I was feeding, I told her and she asked "Well have you ever considered using Royal Canin formulas made specifically for YOUR dog, it's the number one brand in Canada that vets use.." I told her I don't believe that different breeds need different nutrition, to which she looked kind of confused.. "Of course they do, they are all different! Every breed needs different ingredients." I pointed out that the ingredients are nearly identical for every formula, and what about the dog breeds that they don't have one for? "Oh, just pick the dog breed food that looks the closest to your dog. You could feed your little whippet the chihuahua formula. They are very similar in appearance and history". :frusty:

Apart from the err.. not so smart rep, the food costs more than Orijen! For a food like this:

Corn, chicken meal, brewers rice, corn gluten meal, chicken fat, brown rice, oat groats, soy protein isolate, natural flavors, dried beet pulp, fish oil, vegetable oil, calcium carbonate, potassium chloride, sodium silico aluminate, fructooligosaccharides, sodium tripolyphosphate, taurine, salt, DL-methionine, choline chloride, vitamins [DL-alpha tocopherol acetate (source of vitamin E), inositol, niacin supplement, L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), D-calcium pantothenate, biotin, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), riboflavin supplement (vitamin B2), thiamine mononitrate (vitamin B1), vitamin A acetate, folic acid, vitamin B12 supplement, vitamin D3 supplement], trace minerals (zinc proteinate, zinc oxide, ferrous sulfate, manganese proteinate, copper proteinate, copper sulfate, manganous oxide, calcium iodate, sodium selenite), glucosamine hydrochloride, marigold extract (Tagetes erecta L.), L-carnitine, green tea extract, chondroitin sulfate, rosemary extract, preserved with natural mixed tocopherols and citric acid. 

I dunno, to me it just seems really stupid to feed different breeds different foods, when such breeds like GSDs are actually very new..


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## bridget246 (Oct 26, 2011)

I brought into this at first. I hoped a good GSD food would keep Bridget from getting hip dyslexia. I could write a book on how far I came since then lol.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

Caty M said:


> Do people actually feed those? I was with Tess in Petsmart today to see the greyhounds up for adoption (they do an adoption drive here sometimes..) and there was a sales rep table set up for Royal Canin breed specific formula foods.. the rep pet Tessie and asked what I was feeding, I told her and she asked "Well have you ever considered using Royal Canin formulas made specifically for YOUR dog, it's the number one brand in Canada that vets use.." I told her I don't believe that different breeds need different nutrition, to which she looked kind of confused.. "Of course they do, they are all different! Every breed needs different ingredients." I pointed out that the ingredients are nearly identical for every formula, and what about the dog breeds that they don't have one for? "Oh, just pick the dog breed food that looks the closest to your dog. You could feed your little whippet the chihuahua formula. They are very similar in appearance and history". :frusty:
> 
> Apart from the err.. not so smart rep, the food costs more than Orijen! For a food like this:
> 
> ...


in a word? yes.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

Yes, chi's and whippets are very similar. 

RC is one food that angers me the most bc of this gimmick lol


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## chowder (Sep 7, 2008)

So, what would she suggest for a dog like Rocky? They don't make a Chow version. Or any sled dog versions. Do I take a cup of golden retriever, mix in a cup of labrador and a cup of Boxer and then hope for the best? 

What a crock of &#$#*($&# :biggrin:


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## Makovach (Jan 24, 2012)

I remember when my uncle bought into it for his chis and he kept trying to get me to buy the boxer kind for my pups. Back then I was like 10 and was all for it. Two years later, Yeah, not gunna happen in a million years. And 7 years after that, I wont even consider kibble.

They get a lot of people who don't research and don't know better. Its kinda like a child opening spam in your email. They don't know any better and it looked amazing!


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## doggiedad (Jan 23, 2011)

leave the Shepherds and Orijen out of this. you just made me rich.
i'm going to start a company that sells different food for the
different breeds of people. i have to do some research because
i don't know if people are made in differents breeds.



Caty M said:


> Do people actually feed those? I was with Tess in Petsmart today to see the greyhounds up for adoption (they do an adoption drive here sometimes..) and there was a sales rep table set up for Royal Canin breed specific formula foods.. the rep pet Tessie and asked what I was feeding, I told her and she asked "Well have you ever considered using Royal Canin formulas made specifically for YOUR dog, it's the number one brand in Canada that vets use.." I told her I don't believe that different breeds need different nutrition, to which she looked kind of confused.. "Of course they do, they are all different! Every breed needs different ingredients." I pointed out that the ingredients are nearly identical for every formula, and what about the dog breeds that they don't have one for? "Oh, just pick the dog breed food that looks the closest to your dog. You could feed your little whippet the chihuahua formula. They are very similar in appearance and history". :frusty:
> 
> Apart from the err.. not so smart rep,
> 
> ...


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## CoverTune (Dec 20, 2011)

Well yeah, don't you know that asian people need different food than latino people who need different food than african american people etc etc... ????


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Anything to make a buck!

If you didn't notice, the Iam's I saw has different shapes for different kinds of mouths. That must be worth an extra ten dollars a bag


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## bridget246 (Oct 26, 2011)

xellil said:


> Anything to make a buck!
> 
> If you didn't notice, the Iam's I saw has different shapes for different kinds of mouths. That must be worth an extra ten dollars a bag


I would worry that they changed some of the ingredients when they changed the shape. But if that is the brand I'm feeding then I probably don't care.

I started Bridget out on RC GSD puppy. Figured they knew what they were doing. It gave Bridget diarrhea and the food the pet store gave me didn't. So I searched online for a solution and couldn't find a decent kibble. I settled for blue buffalo because I thought that was good. That didn't work so I searched some more. Finally I got tired of searching the net without finding any answers and decided to make a DFC account so I could learn what to feed my dogs. I was afraid of becoming a owner who knew more thought they knew more than their vet when it came to nutrition so I figured I'd only stay to find out what would be best to feed Bridget. Then I found out that somethings in life really are impossible as there was no way I could feed my dog the best food without knowing more than the vet when it comes to nutrition. 

I still have nightmares of the vet chasing me around with the RC special diet food. Even before I joined this site I ran away from it. After the third vet picked up that bag as a solution I decided to run to the raw diet as my only chance of avoiding it. The RC bag of kibble scared me more than raw meat. I thought the worst bag of kibble ever was the RC special diet, but Purina made their own special diet food that proved me wrong. Clearly the two companies are competing for the last place for dog food and Purina has pulled far into the last with their special diet food. I think the worst part was is that this food could only be brought by the vet so it was never on sell and all they did was leave a bunch of stuff out and added a higher amount of fillers while trying to charge me a higher price. I didn't have to know much about nutrition for that to throw a huge red flag. I wonder why some people buy it for their dogs.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

you forget Science Diet! 

Actually, that was the only thing I did right before we switched to raw. I refused to give Snorkels Rx food. i don't even know for sure why I couldn't - I just knew it was bad stuff. 

You must have been getting the same invisible voice as me saying "don't do it or you'll be sooooorrry!"

And that's really how I ended up here - I thought I had tried every dog food out there and the vet was telling me if I didn't feed Science Diet I was a bad, bad dog owner.


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## bridget246 (Oct 26, 2011)

xellil said:


> you forget Science Diet!
> 
> Actually, that was the only thing I did right before we switched to raw. I refused to give Snorkels Rx food. i don't even know for sure why I couldn't - I just knew it was bad stuff.
> 
> ...


That one is pretty easy. RC GSD puppy didn't work. I picked up the bag of science diet and the bag of RC large puppy and turned them both around so I could compare them. I stopped at the first ingredient with the SD before I knew that wasn't a direction I was going to go in.



> Whole Grain Corn, Whole Grain Wheat, Chicken By-Product Meal, Soybean Meal, Animal Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), Chicken Liver Flavor, Corn Gluten Meal, Flaxseed, Fish Oil, Dried Beet Pulp, Powdered Cellulose, Soybean Oil, Natural Flavor, Potassium Citrate, DL-Methionine, Choline Chloride, L-Lysine, Calcium Carbonate, vitamins (L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin A Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin, Folic Acid, Vitamin D3 Supplement), Taurine, Vitamin E Supplement, minerals (Manganese Sulfate, Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite), Iodized Salt, L-Tryptophan, L-Threonine, preserved with Mixed Tocopherols and Citric Acid, L-Carnitine, Phosphoric Acid, Beta-Carotene, Rosemary Extract.


Wonderful. Really, wonderful. They could do much better. To make matters worse is that they are doing better while still selling the old one for around the same price.



> Ingredients: chicken, pea protein concentrate, potato starch, dried potato, chicken meal, chicken fat, dried beet pulp, flaxseed, chicken liver flavor, powdered cellulose, lactic acid, cranberries, apples, peas, carrots, broccoli, iodized salt, choline chloride, L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), vitamin E supplement, niacin, thiamine mononitrate, vitamin A supplement, calcium pantothenate, biotin, vitamin B12 supplement, pyridoxine hydrochloride, riboflavin, folic acid, vitamin D3 supplement, vitamin E supplement, potassium chloride, ferrous sulfate, zinc oxide, copper sulfate, manganous oxide, calcium iodate, sodium selenite, preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid, taurine, beta-carotene, phosphoric acid and rosemary extract
> Guaranteed Analysis: Crude Protein (min) 22.5%, Crude Fat (min) 13.0%, Crude Fiber (max) 4.5%, Moisture (max) 10.0%, Ash (max) 7.5%, Calcium (min) 0.9%, Phosphorus (min) 0.7%, Vitamin E (min) 400 IU/kg, Linoleic Acid (min) 2.4%, Ascorbic Acid* (Vitamin C) (min) 85mg/kg, Omega-3 Fatty Acids* (min) 1.2%, Omega-6 Fatty Acids* (min) 2.5%


The bag is only 21 pounds but the price is the same.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Yep, why make a $4 profit if you can sell the cheap stuff and make a $15 profit?


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

CoverTune said:


> Well yeah, don't you know that asian people need different food than latino people who need different food than african american people etc etc... ????


well, then it is good i am american. because that means i can eat asian food, latino food, african american food, all kinds of nationalities.

my dogs are american too....so i haven't seen a royal canin for american dogs.....guess i'll have to find them something else to eat. 

oh i know....RAW.


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

I am so glad I read this. I have been trying to get my half Mexican husband off bread and the thought of a tortilla free life makes him consider hari kari. The English side of his can't seem to live without thick flavorless gravy. At least I know where it is coming from. LOL


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## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

Each breed needs different ingredients...

Chihuahua does not equal Iggy.

Yet they can eat the same food, no problem?

Seriously???

I mean the concept is ridiculous to begin with but to then throw that^^^ in there? Hahahahahaha!


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Dude and Bucks Mamma said:


> Each breed needs different ingredients...
> 
> Chihuahua does not equal Iggy.
> 
> ...


Each breed needs it own food UNLESS we don't make it. Then they can whatever we make for another breed. Simple!


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

ok. so one of my dogs originated in tibet, so the import costs will kill me and he'll starve.

but wait. he did go to england, i think, or somewhere in europe, so i can feed him european meat. but royal canin only has pug.

the other dog, let's see. corgi, blue heeler, lab, who knows what else?

i demand a mutt formula.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

you have a very good point Re. i guess they want you to just mix up a little boxer with a little chihuahua - that should be close enough!


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

xellil said:


> you have a very good point Re. i guess they want you to just mix up a little boxer with a little chihuahua - that should be close enough!


whatever will they do with the ahem designer breeds....you know the yor-shee-pug-poo?


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## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

magicre said:


> whatever will they do with the ahem designer breeds....you know the yor-shee-pug-poo?


That one's easy.. feed 1/4 each of RC Yorkshire terrier, shih-tzu, pug, and poodle. OBVIOUSLY!

And I love how she said whippets and chihuahuas have the same history. Last time I checked chihuahuas weren't greyhounds mixed with terriers.


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## DeekenDog (Aug 29, 2011)

I can't stand Royal Canin and this is why. More than Iams, or Purina, or Science Diet, this gimmick just straight up makes me mad. When I was working in a pet store, it was amazing how many people bought into this and couldn't believe that there was a better food for their dog than one made specifically for their breed. Forget that the ingredients on all the formulas are basically the same crappy ones.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

DeekenDog said:


> I can't stand Royal Canin and this is why. More than Iams, or Purina, or Science Diet, this gimmick just straight up makes me mad. When I was working in a pet store, it was amazing how many people bought into this and couldn't believe that there was a better food for their dog than one made specifically for their breed. Forget that the ingredients on all the formulas are basically the same crappy ones.


They know their market. People who don't bother to look beyond the hype. Of course, i was one of them for many years. But it's true - they know their buying public are pretty much brain dead when it comes to dog food.

And i don't think chihuahuas are kin to any other dog. They are a breed all their own, if i remember correctly. The only true toy.


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## Sapphire-Light (Aug 8, 2010)

OMG!! look at all the types they have in UK, image feeding a great dane this overpriced food 

http://www.royalcanin.co.uk/products/products/dog-products/breed-health-nutrition 



DeekenDog said:


> I can't stand Royal Canin and this is why. More than Iams, or Purina, or Science Diet, this gimmick just straight up makes me mad. When I was working in a pet store, it was amazing how many people bought into this and couldn't believe that there was a better food for their dog than one made specifically for their breed. Forget that the ingredients on all the formulas are basically the same crappy ones.


I agree, at least the prescription diets ideas has some sense, after all for example people who have hearth problems we have to reduce salt, fat , colesterol, etc..

Not that I'm saying all the ingredients of the formulas from the hills and the others are 100% good or their prices, but the idea sounds more excusable than the breed specific formulas.

And worse of all all their formulas are the same, just the order of the first ingredients change a bit.



xellil said:


> Anything to make a buck!
> 
> If you didn't notice, the Iam's I saw has different shapes for different kinds of mouths. That must be worth an extra ten dollars a bag



I saw in a pet store a huge bag of the rottweiler food the bag was like 40 pounds and it cost was 3 times the price of kirkland  

And it was for this:



> COMPOSITION: rice, vegetable protein isolate*, dehydrated poultry meat, animal fats, maize, hydrolysed animal proteins, minerals, vegetable fibres, beet pulp, fish oil, soya oil, copra oil, dehydrated tomato, hydrolysed yeast (source of manno-oligo-saccharides), hydrolysed crustaceans (source of glucosamine), green tea and grape extracts (source of polyphenols), marigold extract (source of lutein), hydrolysed cartilage (source of chondroitin). ADDITIVES (per kg): Nutritional additives: Vitamin A: 22300 IU, Vitamin D3: 700 IU, E1 (Iron): 36 mg, E2 (Iodine): 2.5 mg, E4 (Copper): 11 mg, E5 (Manganese): 48 mg, E6 (Zinc): 181 mg, E8 (Selenium): 0.09 mg - Technological additives: Pentasodium triphosphate: 3.5 g - L-carnitine: 700 mg - Taurine: 0.26% - Preservatives - Antioxidants. ANALYTICAL CONSTITUENTS: Protein: 26% - Fat content: 20% - Crude ash: 7.5% - Crude fibres: 2.4% - EPA/DHA: 5 g/kg. *L.I.P.: protein selected for its very high assimilation.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Sapphire-Light said:


> I agree, at least the prescription diets ideas has some sense, after all for example people who have hearth problems we have to reduce salt, fat , colesterol, etc..


i don't think the Rx foods are any less garbage than the breed-specific. 

I was told to put Snorkels on weight reduction food - all filler. 
Heart healthy food - low salt and filler.

Their food for kidney function is disgusting - I had to give it to a foster dog once and the vet said she couldn't eat it for more than a few weeks because they can't survive on that food for long. 

Alot of them are like that - "temporary" foods with absolutely nothing in them but trash. And once you go off them, the dog has the same problems or worse. So back on them. It's a great money maker but awful for the poor dog.

In the end, I put Snorkels on a weight loss, heart healthy food using raw. It is so much better for her. And it's also good for her kidneys, liver, everything else the horrible Rx foods are supposed to do at 10 times the cost and 1000 times worse ingredients.


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## Sapphire-Light (Aug 8, 2010)

xellil said:


> i don't think the Rx foods are any less garbage than the breed-specific.
> 
> I was told to put Snorkels on weight reduction food - all filler.
> Heart healthy food - low salt and filler.
> ...


That sounds nasty :twitch: I'm surprised that the vets know they can't survive on it but they are recomending, doesn't this type of foods have medicine on it or is just regular ingredients?


I haven't seen the ingredients in the other formulas, the only one I have used a bit was the D/D when Pompadour had the nasty allegic reaction a bag of the dry and a few canned, but he compleatly refused to eat the dry LOL , so we had to give it away, at least I have a excuse if the vet says he needs it again.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Sapphire-Light said:


> That sounds nasty :twitch: I'm surprised that the vets know they can't survive on it but they are recomending, doesn't this type of foods have medicine on it or is just regular ingredients?
> 
> 
> I haven't seen the ingredients in the other formulas, the only one I have used a bit was the D/D when Pompadour had the nasty allegic reaction a bag of the dry and a few canned, but he compleatly refused to eat the dry LOL , so we had to give it away, at least I have a excuse if the vet says he needs it again.


No, no medicine in it. Normally they have alot of sawdust for filler, alot of corn, and other low quality ingredients. The only ones i've actually seen are Science Diet because that's what the vets sell.

the food i was feeding my foster dog was canned. It was WHITE, and had the consistency of a block of soft cheese. The most disgusting stuff I've ever had to feed a dog.


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## CoverTune (Dec 20, 2011)

xellil said:


> No, no medicine in it. Normally they have alot of sawdust for filler, alot of corn, and other low quality ingredients. The only ones i've actually seen are Science Diet because that's what the vets sell.


Never heard of sawdust in the food, but Hill's used to use peanut hulls in their weight loss diets as "insoluble fibre". They don't use it any more.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

CoverTune said:


> Never heard of sawdust in the food, but Hill's used to use peanut hulls in their weight loss diets as "insoluble fibre". They don't use it any more.


If you see "cellulose" as an ingredient, that is normally sawdust. They don't say sawdust or no one would buy it.


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## Roo (Oct 17, 2010)

> whatever will they do with the ahem designer breeds....


Re, you mean my mixed breed/mutt puggle? :wink: (sorry I'm just not of fan of the term "designer breed") I guess she would partly starve because I don't think RC makes a beagle formula, only pug formula. Just another reason I'll have to stick with feeding her PMR. :smile:


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

Roo said:


> Re, you mean my mixed breed/mutt puggle? :wink: (sorry I'm just not of fan of the term "designer breed") I guess she would partly starve because I don't think RC makes a beagle formula, only pug formula. Just another reason I'll have to stick with feeding her PMR. :smile:


i'm not a fan either. LOL....

but if you feed half beagle formula and half pug, then i guess the dog won't starve. but however will each half of the dog digest its food?

it's a conundrum, to be sure.


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## Sapphire-Light (Aug 8, 2010)

xellil said:


> No, no medicine in it. Normally they have alot of sawdust for filler, alot of corn, and other low quality ingredients. The only ones i've actually seen are Science Diet because that's what the vets sell.
> 
> the food i was feeding my foster dog was canned. It was WHITE, and had the consistency of a block of soft cheese. The most disgusting stuff I've ever had to feed a dog.


Now I see, hmm... that's sad, wow they are making a good brainwashing job to vets :/

The canned D/D was like ground meat with rice, but it wasn't white and the smell was sweet, the dry smelled very weird kind like medicine I guess that's why Pompadour refused it :tape: ...now I have curiosity in seeing the one you say :wink:



magicre said:


> i'm not a fan either. LOL....
> 
> but if you feed half beagle formula and half pug, then i guess the dog won't starve. but however will each half of the dog digest its food?
> 
> it's a conundrum, to be sure.


LOL :biggrin:


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

It was a kidney formula - I/O I believe. Or something like that.

The one they sold me for Snorkels but which I fed to the squirrels had corn as the first ingredient and it only got worse from there. And they told me they didn't have a small bag so I bought something like 20 pounds - it would have lasted her a year or more. 

But the squirrels loved it! It was almost all corn.


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## Sapphire-Light (Aug 8, 2010)

xellil said:


> It was a kidney formula - I/O I believe. Or something like that.
> 
> The one they sold me for Snorkels but which I fed to the squirrels had corn as the first ingredient and it only got worse from there. And they told me they didn't have a small bag so I bought something like 20 pounds - it would have lasted her a year or more.
> 
> But the squirrels loved it! It was almost all corn.


LOL, at the vet of the D/D they gave me a 20 pound bag too sigh, since Pompadour is on 70% raw , a 6 pound bag of kibble like the propac bags last for more than 3 months image a 20 pound one.

We sent the D/D bag to some big dogs that my father has in his farm (some mutts) and they ate it in just a couple of weeks, they mostly eat scraps from the workers and leftover milk products from the daily process, my father also feeds them some cheap nameless generic kibble wit transparent bags that is sold in a store that is similar to costo.

What I do wit the propac bags is to feed it for 3 months then I sent the rest to the dogs at the farm since Pompadour dislikes to eat the kibble when is not fresh :tsk: he eats like 3/4 or less from the bag.


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## wolfsnaps88 (Jan 2, 2012)

The sad part is that these gimmicky marketing tactics WORK. I had a customer come in asking for the yorkie food. She didn't know which one so I showed her the Eukanuba and the Royal Canin. 

People don't even know the names of the brands! They go by packaging! When some brands decided to change their packaging it was INSANE how many people came in to buy food and didn't even know what they had been feeding their dog for 8 years, just that the bag was pink and yellow. I had to look up their accounts to see (if they were a member).

It just goes to show, if you put any cheap junk in a bag and then spend money making the bag fancy with commercials and endorcements, people will buy your cheap junk. 

To me, dog food is juicy, tasty animal parts the way it was intended from the beginning.


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## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

We had a family in Buck's puppy class with us that didn't know what they had been feeding their baby Boston. I couldn't believe it. It was the first time that I had ever heard someone not know what they were feeding their dog. I have heard it numerous times since then now that I am aware that it happens.


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## CoverTune (Dec 20, 2011)

Dude and Bucks Mamma said:


> We had a family in Buck's puppy class with us that didn't know what they had been feeding their baby Boston. I couldn't believe it. It was the first time that I had ever heard someone not know what they were feeding their dog. I have heard it numerous times since then now that I am aware that it happens.


Happens ALL the time in the vet clinic.. I'm talking prescription foods too.. it's like, you don't know what illness you're treating?? But I'd say at least 40% of clients that came in did not know what food their dog was eating.


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