# Veggies and fruit out the window?



## Nani (Apr 14, 2010)

I am curious to learn more about Prey Model Diets.

From what I've read so far you don't feed veggies or fruit in this type of diet. 

I puree veggies and fruit and feed. It's not the bulk of their diet but I've always believed that it's important to them. 

Their main source of food is RMB's, organs and muscle meat. They also get veggies, fruit, kelp, alfalfa, fish oil ACV and knuckle bones. If I feed a whole animal then I don't add these things and of course they don't get all these things all together I split everything up into a week or so.


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

Fruits and veggies in their natural state are entirely undigestable to canines. This is enough to convince me that they don't belong in a dog's diet. 

Anything that your dog needs can be obtained through a diet of mostly meat, some bone, and some organs of various animals. This is the most natural and optimum diet you can feed. Exact percentages are not important. 

Most of the bone content in my dog's diet comes from whole fish or poultry because these are the easiest to digest and easiest to crunch up. Ribs are also wonderful for larger dogs. My GSD can eat ribs, my others just chew on them. 

You'll want to stay away from knuckle bones or femurs of large animals because they are designed to carry hundreds, even thousands of pounds and are more dense than dog's teeth and can break them.


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## Ania's Mommy (Feb 8, 2009)

I don't feed veggies either. 

The reason a raw diet made sense to me was because it's basically how wild wolves eat. And the domestic dog is genetically the same as a wolf.

As CorgiPaws stated, wolves are not able to derive any nutrients from raw veggies in their whole form. It is evident in the design of their teeth, which are meant to tear and crush food down to sizes that will just fit down their throat. In order to get to the nutrients in fruits and veggies, you must first break down their cell wall. Humans do this with their flat-ish molars. Dogs don't have any molar-type teeth. And you sure don't see wolves out there with food processors! :biggrin:

The argument that says, "Well, a wolf gets veggies from the pureed stomach contents of the herbavores it kills" does not hold much water for me. Most of the time, the stomach of prey is not eaten by wolves. Here's a little bit of proof: http://dogfoodchat.com/forum/pictures/2200-raw-feeding-its-finest-caution-graphic-photos.html

I don't think that fruit and veg matter is a necessary component of a dog's diet. But, if after you've looked into it and decide that you still want to go to allllll that trouble, it isn't harmful in the least. :wink:

Happy researching!
Richelle


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

We don't do fruits and veggies just because they don't have anything that dogs need that they don't get from eating meat, organ and bone. But it won't do any harm to feed them.


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

Nani said:


> I puree veggies and fruit and feed. It's not the bulk of their diet but I've always believed that it's important to them.


If you have to puree veggies and fruits for the dogs to get nutrients from them, that automatically tells you they aren't needed in their diet. There is no way to get pureed veggies in the wild. Dogs also wouldn't have the ability to get carrots, potatoes, broccoli, or green beans. They would have access to grass, weeds, leaves and twigs. BTW: IF they ate the stomach contents of their prey, which they don't, that is the plant matter in the stomachs of those prey animals. Grass, weeds, leaves and twigs.



> Their main source of food is RMB's, organs and muscle meat.


I can tell you are a follower of Ian Billinghurst and the BARF method of feeding because in your discussion of diet, you seperate RMB's and muscle meat. We don't seperate the two in our discussions. Like many, I started off with the BARF method of feeding but after extensive research, drifted away from it to the prey model method.



> They also get veggies, fruit, kelp, alfalfa, fish oil ACV and knuckle bones. If I feed a whole animal then I don't add these things and of course they don't get all these things all together I split everything up into a week or so.


ACV is another one of those things that have been given mystical powers in the minds of many. Kinda like green tripe. It is not what its been built up to be. I often ask people what nutrients they think their dogs are getting from veggies, fruits, etc that they don't get from meat, bones, and organs. I have yet to get a good answer to that question.


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## mike487 (Mar 30, 2010)

My dog Kira would pick wild black raspberries, blackberries, and blueberries with me. She really enjoyed the berries especially blueberries. She would often go off on her own to eat them off the bushes. It may not have been a significant nutritional part of her diet and it was very seasonal but there was nothing wrong with it and I think it was good for her even if she just enjoyed the taste. I never saw her attempt to eat a non-edible or poisonous fruit.
She also grazed a little on tender grass nearly every day during the growing season.
I did not feed her raw because I didn't know about it but I had switched her to grain free.
The second picture was taken a few weeks before she passed away.


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## Ania's Mommy (Feb 8, 2009)

She's VERY pretty! I assume she's a hybrid...? 

To use one of RFD's arguments, I like to eat ice cream. But that doesn't, mean I get anything nutritionally from ice cream that I don't get in my regular diet. :biggrin:


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## mike487 (Mar 30, 2010)

Thank you. She was a mixed breed.
I don't know why she liked grass so much, maybe it was just like the berries and she liked the taste. I think the comparison with ice cream is not that great as ice cream is not really that healthy for anyone - human, canine, etc. Grass and berries while maybe not nutritionally significant are not full of processed sugar. I did not force feed her these things, I did not disguise them in a meat broth, she chose to eat them while we were out in the woods. Would she have still eaten grass if I fed her raw? what if , what if. Maybe it served some purpose maybe it did not.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Mike, I'm pretty sure the comparison was meant to relate taste and not nutritional value. Dogs like fruit and berries because they like the taste and we like ice cream beacuse of the taste. Neither of which holds much nutritional value to dogs or humans, respectively.


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

My dogs use to regularly eat grass until I started feeding tripe/trach, they still will occassionally eat the new blades that come up. RFD and I regulary have this argument about the need to eat grass and enzymes but we won't go there now.
I just do prey model diet and add tripe to it and it works for me as it works for the other 1000's of raw feeders out there.:biggrin:


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## Nani (Apr 14, 2010)

RawFedDogs said:


> I can tell you are a follower of Ian Billinghurst and the BARF method of feeding because in your discussion of diet, you seperate RMB's and muscle meat. We don't seperate the two in our discussions. Like many, I started off with the BARF method of feeding but after extensive research, drifted away from it to the prey model method.
> 
> ACV is another one of those things that have been given mystical powers in the minds of many. Kinda like green tripe. It is not what its been built up to be. I often ask people what nutrients they think their dogs are getting from veggies, fruits, etc that they don't get from meat, bones, and organs. I have yet to get a good answer to that question.


Why don't you separate the two in discussion? They're two different things. I haven't fed my dogs and cats many whole animals, which I'd like to do more often. When I buy them their food for the next couple weeks I buy rmb's (wings, backs, necks ect...) And I buy their muscle meat, lamb, beef, chicken, buffalo, rabbit ect....I feed more rmb's than muscle meat. Just curious to learn all I can. 

I think that my dogs and cats are getting an array of vitamins and antioxidants in their veggies and fruit. I don't feed them much especially the cats! 
Thanks for the quick replies! :smile:


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## Nani (Apr 14, 2010)

CorgiPaws said:


> You'll want to stay away from knuckle bones or femurs of large animals because they are designed to carry hundreds, even thousands of pounds and are more dense than dog's teeth and can break them.


Thanks for the reply! I've stayed away from femurs! I know they are mega teeth breakers but the knuckles always seem so soft and spongy. I mean for bone that is.:tongue:


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## Nani (Apr 14, 2010)

mike487 said:


> My dog Kira would pick wild black raspberries, blackberries, and blueberries with me. She really enjoyed the berries especially blueberries. She would often go off on her own to eat them off the bushes. It may not have been a significant nutritional part of her diet and it was very seasonal but there was nothing wrong with it and I think it was good for her even if she just enjoyed the taste. I never saw her attempt to eat a non-edible or poisonous fruit.
> She also grazed a little on tender grass nearly every day during the growing season.
> I did not feed her raw because I didn't know about it but I had switched her to grain free.
> The second picture was taken a few weeks before she passed away.


What a beautiful girl!!


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

Nani said:


> Why don't you separate the two in discussion?


We don't seperate RMB's and muscle meat in discussions because it gives you no information. Some RMB's have lots of meat and little bone, others have lots of bone and little meat. So if you say you feed RMB's and muscle meat, how much meat and how much bone are they actually getting? There is no way to know. Yes, we sometimes feed boneless meals. I do 2 or 3 times a week. But the important thing to concern yourself with is how much meat, how much bone, and how much organ meat? Saying, "I feed 30% RMB's and 30% muscle meat" doesn't give any information at all. If you say, "I feed about 20% Bone, 70% meat, and 10% organs" then you have an accurate picture of the diet.



> They're two different things. I haven't fed my dogs and cats many whole animals, which I'd like to do more often. When I buy them their food for the next couple weeks I buy rmb's (wings, backs, necks ect...) And I buy their muscle meat, lamb, beef, chicken, buffalo, rabbit ect....I feed more rmb's than muscle meat. Just curious to learn all I can.


I'm a little confused by your terminology here. Are you saying that lamb, beef, chicken, buffalo, rabbit, etc that you buy are boneless? If not, they are also RMB's. Thats why I don't like the term RMB's AND muscle meat. To me, muscle meat has no bone. RMB's are either a bone surrounded by muscle meat or they are muscle meat that contains bone.



> I think that my dogs and cats are getting an array of vitamins and antioxidants in their veggies and fruit. I don't feed them much especially the cats!


Thats a very general statement that says nothing and it's not what I asked. The question I asked was what nutrients do your dogs and cats get from fruits and veggies THAT THEY DON'T get from meat, bones, and organs of the prey animals they eat? It was really a retorical question because there are no needed nutrients in fruits and veggies that are not in meat, bones, and organs. You gain nothing by feeding carnivores plants. You only make llife more complicated for you and the animals.


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## Nani (Apr 14, 2010)

RawFedDogs said:


> We don't seperate RMB's and muscle meat in discussions because it gives you no information. Some RMB's have lots of meat and little bone, others have lots of bone and little meat. So if you say you feed RMB's and muscle meat, how much meat and how much bone are they actually getting? There is no way to know. Yes, we sometimes feed boneless meals. I do 2 or 3 times a week. But the important thing to concern yourself with is how much meat, how much bone, and how much organ meat? Saying, "I feed 30% RMB's and 30% muscle meat" doesn't give any information at all. If you say, "I feed about 20% Bone, 70% meat, and 10% organs" then you have an accurate picture of the diet.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The second amount of meat I listed were just muscle meat ie no bone.
I do feed other proteins with bone like rabbit, and other small birds such as pheasant, duck... I was just saying I also buy meat without bone. I get what you're saying about the percentages. 

Sorry, I didn't realize that it was a rhetorical question. Just here to learn. I am not interested just yet or at all in switching my dog's diets. I am interested to learn all I can though. I think this is an awesome site and I've already told my raw feeding friends about this place.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Nani said:


> Sorry, I didn't realize that it was a rhetorical question. Just here to learn. I am not interested just yet or at all in switching my dog's diets. I am interested to learn all I can though. I think this is an awesome site and I've already told my raw feeding friends about this place.


There is no reason for you to be sorry. The important thing is that you understand the importance of raw feeding and why we do it, which clearly you understand! We all feel that different things are better than others so we all do things a bit differently...especially when talking about raw feeding. Some people feed fruits and veggies and others do not. People have their reasons as to why they feed them and the people who don't have their reasons why they don't. What you have to do what you feel is best.


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## xxshaelxx (Mar 8, 2010)

mike487 said:


> Thank you. She was a mixed breed.
> I don't know why she liked grass so much, maybe it was just like the berries and she liked the taste. I think the comparison with ice cream is not that great as ice cream is not really that healthy for anyone - human, canine, etc. Grass and berries while maybe not nutritionally significant are not full of processed sugar. I did not force feed her these things, I did not disguise them in a meat broth, she chose to eat them while we were out in the woods. Would she have still eaten grass if I fed her raw? what if , what if. Maybe it served some purpose maybe it did not.


Would a better comparison be Milkbones to blackberries? XP I mean, Milkbones have hardly any nutritional value to them, yet dogs love those. haha.

Also, the way I figure it, my dogs don't get veggies, and none of the raw feeders on here feed fruits or veggies from my understanding, and every single dog I've seen here that is on raw looks absolutely FANTASTIC! If there was some random nutritional supplement that they needed from fruits and veggies, why wouldn't they start appearing malnourished by now? XDD


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

Nani said:


> Sorry, I didn't realize that it was a rhetorical question. Just here to learn. I am not interested just yet or at all in switching my dog's diets. I am interested to learn all I can though. I think this is an awesome site and I've already told my raw feeding friends about this place.


Cool ... no problem. :smile: Thank you for mentioning us to your raw feeding friends. Hopefully they will enjoy themselves here also. One more point about fruits and veggies. I don't think they will harm a dog at all, I just don't think the dogs derive any benefit from eating them. If you want to feed them and it makes you more comfy, go ahead. :smile: Sometimes I come across stronger than I mean to. You will learn that as time goes on. :smile:


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

RawFedDogs said:


> Sometimes I come across stronger than I mean to. You will learn that as time goes on. :smile:


This IS a fact!!! But even I learned to get passed it and I've learned a TON from RFD :biggrin:


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## Nani (Apr 14, 2010)

RawFedDogs said:


> Cool ... no problem. :smile: Thank you for mentioning us to your raw feeding friends. Hopefully they will enjoy themselves here also. One more point about fruits and veggies. I don't think they will harm a dog at all, I just don't think the dogs derive any benefit from eating them. If you want to feed them and it makes you more comfy, go ahead. :smile: Sometimes I come across stronger than I mean to. You will learn that as time goes on. :smile:


That's ok. Sometimes I take things more personally than I should! :biggrin: Thanks again for all your fast replies.


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## mike487 (Mar 30, 2010)

xxshaelxx said:


> Would a better comparison be Milkbones to blackberries? XP I mean, Milkbones have hardly any nutritional value to them, yet dogs love those. haha.


No not really. The comparison started as people eating ice cream to dogs eating wild berries. 
Anyway if I remember correctly milk bones are dried out empty plant fiber with some other processed junk mixed in. Wild berries deserve a little more respect than to be compared to waste baked into a cookie.
I'm not trying to argue because I agree that a raw meaty bones diet is the best for dogs and that dogs do not need vegetables or fruit as a regular part of their diet. A bird pooped out some seeds, the seeds grew into a berry bush and my dog ate the berries. No big deal.


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

mike487 said:


> Wild berries deserve a little more respect than to be compared to waste baked into a cookie.


You're making the mistake of applying the goodness of fresh berries in a person's diet to a dog's diet. 

Berries hold NO nutritional value to a dog, so they can be put on the same level as anything else that holds no nutritional value. Berries. Grass. Cardboard. Milkbones. Veggies. They're all the same to a canine: empty.


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## mike487 (Mar 30, 2010)

CorgiPaws said:


> You're making the mistake of applying the goodness of fresh berries in a person's diet to a dog's diet.
> 
> Berries hold NO nutritional value to a dog, so they can be put on the same level as anything else that holds no nutritional value. Berries. Grass. Cardboard. Milkbones. Veggies. They're all the same to a canine: empty.


You are making the mistake of arguing just for the sake of it. And of trying to make something simple and natural (RMB) into something rigid and convoluted.


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

mike487 said:


> You are making the mistake of arguing just for the sake of it. And of trying to make something simple and natural (RMB) into something rigid and convoluted.


I'm not sure I understand, I didn't know this was an argument. I stated a fact, not an attempt to argue. You said berries were more nutritionally valuable than milkbones for dogs, I feel that's a false statement, so I stated it. This is a forum. That's what it's here for. We discuss, present, debate, challenge, prove, and disprove ideas. I apologize if you posted wanting no response. :smile:

I also don't understand how I'm complicating a PMR diet by pointing out the lack of nutrition for a canine in berries.


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## mike487 (Mar 30, 2010)

Well I never said anything about berries being nutrition for dogs, only that a berry out in the field was better that chopped up straw and flavorings baked in into a dried out brick. The point was that I think to equate the two on an absolute level was unfair to the dog AND the berry. It is also a very rigid way to look at things. If you think about it a berry is mostly liquid, a milk bone is mostly dried waste from grain hulls or something. I never said people need to feed dogs veggies or fruit I was just sharing an example from my dog and she liked to eat berries and grass. I'm sure she just enjoyed eating berries and I don't know why she ate grass but thats ok. My next dog I am going to feed RMB and if she likes them I may point out the good berries when I see them for nostalgia's sake.


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## xxshaelxx (Mar 8, 2010)

mike487 said:


> I think the comparison with ice cream is not that great as ice cream is not really that healthy for anyone - human, canine, etc. Grass and berries while maybe not nutritionally significant are not full of processed sugar. I did not force feed her these things, I did not disguise them in a meat broth, she chose to eat them while we were out in the woods. Would she have still eaten grass if I fed her raw? what if , what if. Maybe it served some purpose maybe it did not.


My comparison of Milkbones to fruits/veggies was in reply to this statement, as opposed to comparing ice cream being eaten by people to fruit/veggies being eaten by dogs. Meaning that just because the dog ate them doesn't mean it has any nutritional value. If you read that statement again, you will realize that it has NOTHING to do with what you posted about your dog eating berries in the field. Actually, my post had NOTHING to do with ANYTHING you said about your dog eating berries in the field.


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## mike487 (Mar 30, 2010)

Ok. I see yours and Corgipaws point of view - to a dog berries = processed junk = cardboard = grass. 
To me this discussion has become tangled, a bit like a blackberry bramble. And I disagree with such absolute comparisons. I think berries and even grass on many levels are relatively better than the potentially harmful things you are comparing them to. A berry is mostly liquid not cellulose. Does water contain no nutrition to a dog either? What is better for any being - drinking chemical laden water from a city tap or drinking pure water from a spring or well? What is suspended in the the watery juice of a berry? Tender young grass is also quite juicy.
I never compared anything to anything, you guys started the comparisons, which to me are not helpful or useful. 
I do not think it is helpful to be so rigid especially if you are trying to persuade others to what we all know here : that raw meaty bones and organs are the most healthy and best thing for our dogs. Even Dr. Lonsdale allows room for people to feed table scraps to their dogs.


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## Ania's Mommy (Feb 8, 2009)

Jeeze, didn't mean to start anything here...

I think what happened is that Mike told a nostolgic story about his dog eating berries and grass. Seeing that post reminded me that I left out that point in my original reply to the OP. Then, I made the berry/ice cream comparison.

I'm pretty sure we're all on the same page here. From what I can tell, Mike doesn't believe that dogs derive any nutrition from whole plant mater. He was just saying how his dog would eat them. That's all.

Certainly, if given the choice of ice cream, milkbone, or blueberries, I'd rather my dog eat blueberries for the simple fact that (to me) they are nutritionally neutral. Whereas a milkbone and ice cream do not offer anything positive, but (in my mind) DO offer pleanty of negative.

But that's neither here nor there. My point was that just because one eats something, doesn't always mean it's nutritionally valuable to them. 

And if your dog loves eatin' berries, have at it! :biggrin: 

***Note to self*** Don't try and use RFD's arguments again. He's better at it than you are.

Richelle


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

mike487 said:


> Does water contain no nutrition to a dog either?


Water is essential to life. No living being can live without it.



> What is better for any being - drinking chemical laden water from a city tap or drinking pure water from a spring or well?


That can be debatable. I know not all wells have good water. I don't know if all spring water is good. I know 30% of all bottled water is from a city tap.



> What is suspended in the the watery juice of a berry?


Sugar - not good for a dog.



> Even Dr. Lonsdale allows room for people to feed table scraps to their dogs.


I have argued with him about that on several occasions. :smile: Note: He doesn't say people SHOULD feed table scraps. He basically says they will do no harm and MAY do some good. Thats hardly a ringing endorsement of feeding table scraps.

Anyway, you make a good point. I just like to argue sometimes. :smile:


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## Ania's Mommy (Feb 8, 2009)

^^^^

See. I told ya! :biggrin:


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## xxshaelxx (Mar 8, 2010)

Ania's Mommy said:


> To use one of RFD's arguments, I like to eat ice cream. But that doesn't, mean I get anything nutritionally from ice cream that I don't get in my regular diet.


As you can see, Ania's Mommy says she doesn't get anything nutritionally from ice cream.



danemama08 said:


> Mike, I'm pretty sure the comparison was meant to relate taste and not nutritional value. Dogs like fruit and berries because they like the taste and we like ice cream beacuse of the taste. Neither of which holds much nutritional value to dogs or humans, respectively.


Exactly what we've been TRYING to tell you. We're not saying berries are necessarily unhealthy for your dog, but that they don't eat them just because they are healthy.



mike487 said:


> I did not force feed her these things, I did not disguise them in a meat broth, she chose to eat them while we were out in the woods.


You blatantly stated yourself that you didn't force her to eat these things. Well, we're comparing the idea that dogs aren't forced to eat things like ice cream or Milkbones, either, which are unhealthy for them.


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## mike487 (Mar 30, 2010)

RawFedDogs said:


> Water is essential to life. No living being can live without it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What you say about not all wells are good and a lot of bottled water is just tap water is true. My point is that known good pure water from a well or spring is is clearly better than from a source such as municipal water that is known to contain fluoride, chlorine, etc. Water is essential for hydration of course, but good water also contains important minerals. A berry contains sugar of course (wild berries except perhaps wild blueberries seem less sweet than domestic counterparts) but there are other compounds present in the juice and they are not encapsulated by cellulose once the skin is broken. Once again, I am not arguing that a dog on diet of raw meaty bones and organs needs to be fed fruit but I do not agree that a dog that occasionally forages for berries might as well be munching on cardboard or grain based dog biscuits. Saying that a berry that you have seen growing wild and ripening in the sun is equivalent to a substance produced from waste and chemicals (cardboard) or made of dubious grains, preservatives, and chemicals (milk bones) does not hold water, so to say.


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

Nurtritionally dead= nutritionally dead. 



I'd say sugar content in berries outweighs the drop or two of moisture you might find. 

Just like the grain and junk outweighs the small meat content in a milkbone.
_Ingredients: Wheat flour, wheat bran, beef meal and beef bone meal, wheat germ, beef fat (preserved with tocopherols), poultry-by-product meal, lamb meal, salt, chicken meal, _


Either way, we all seem to be in agreement that berries aren't species appropriate, and neither are milkbones, cardboard, or grass, so I think this discussion has reached "pointless" status.


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## mike487 (Mar 30, 2010)

A fresh berry is not dead it is alive. berry = cardboard <---- still wrong


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

mike487 said:


> A fresh berry is not dead it is alive. berry = cardboard <---- still wrong


Fine. Nutritionally useless. Sorry for my choice of words. 

Nutritionally useless= nutritionally useless

milkbone= berry.


same thing.


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## mike487 (Mar 30, 2010)

CorgiPaws said:


> milkbone= berry.


Wow. 

In my world all things cannot be reduced with an equals sign.


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

mike487 said:


> Wow.
> 
> In my world all things cannot be reduced with an equals sign.


Wow. 

In my world, dogs are carnivores and should be fed as such, and any inappropriate food is just as inappropriate as the next. 
Sorry if my use of an "=" offends you. I use it to show that the things being compared hold the same amount of nutrition. Complicated concept, I know. 

And more things exist in my world than milkbones, berries, grass, and cardboard. :wink:


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## xxshaelxx (Mar 8, 2010)

Wow...did my reply just get, like, completely ignored? Because you know, I was trying to argue the point of taste, that dogs like things that aren't necessarily healthy for them, so liking something that is neutral doesn't mean that the something that is neutral is actually healthy for them just because they eat it.

Begin Rant/ I LOVE being ignored... -.- \End Rant


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## funshine (Jan 21, 2010)

I think that CorgiPaws is talking about nutritional value (of everything) and is correct about that. :smile:

Then I also think that mike487 is talking which one "berry" or "milkbone" is less natural/harmful to a dog. Milkbone is highly processed and wolfs would never come across/might cause allergies. Berry(&grass) is "natural product" wolfs can find and might eat, no matter the nutritional value and sugar. :smile:

That's how I understand the discussion... maybe talking about two different things here.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

mike, i think your girl was a gorgeous girl and how you must miss her....i had a bandit boy who used to share my orange juice with me.....i never thought it was harmful....perhaps not beneficial and this was in the day when i fed kibble, happily...

i have two dogs now that used to be on kibble --- a high quality --- and we would be giving them tastes of everything we ate....

do i think it hurt them? maybe.....what we ate had no nutritional value, maybe too much in the way of sugar or fat or whatever..and while i wouldn't compare our food to cardboard, certainly it was of no nutritional value to us....so it would be less so for our dogs...

i miss my bandit and i miss sharing my juice with him...if he were alive today, i'd probably still be sharing my juice with him...not because of the nutritional value or harm....he never got that much to do anything awful....although i won't ever know that....but the bond between us was priceless....

the fact that my current dogs eat grass doesn't tell me anything other than the fact that they eat grass....there might be something in the grass that aids in digestion for them, from one end to the other....but i don't think it means they are missing something nutritionally. they don't vomit from it and it's digested or i'd see it in their stool....

i am not sure where the discussion went off track, but it did...and that's a shame because it's a good discussion....



> Wow...did my reply just get, like, completely ignored? Because you know, I was trying to argue the point of taste, that dogs like things that aren't necessarily healthy for them, so liking something that is neutral doesn't mean that the something that is neutral is actually healthy for them just because they eat it.
> 
> Begin Rant/ I LOVE being ignored... -.- \End Rant


i'm not ignoring you LOL......


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

Gee, last night the dogs got to lick big bites of ice cream off my spoon as I was eating haggen daz, they really enjoyed it.:biggrin:


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## mike487 (Mar 30, 2010)

Thank you to funshine and magicre for seeing a little bit from my point of view and some of my emotions.


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