# Very sad to see a member leave DFC



## twoisplenty (Nov 12, 2008)

I wasnt going to say anything but this has really gotten under my skin. It appears that a valued Raw feeder/ Holistic breeder has chosen to leave this forum. She has provided a lot of helpful advise to many DFC members including myself and has always made herself available to any PM's. Yet she constantly comes under attack for her opinions and advice by several members of this forum, asking for proof and documentation to back up her claims.

Sadly, there are very few studies done on the benefits of Raw feeding and Holistic medicine, however, I have seen first hand with my own crew how this approach works. I am a very open minded person. I have done multiple kibbles (low and high end), home cooking, BARF and finally ended up on PMR. I am not your average 1 dog home, we have 5 dogs with 3 of them being breeding bitches. Each and every one of my dogs flourish on PMR, I have seen a huge decrease in birthing issues, our bitches recover faster from delivery, we have better milk than we ever had and our puppies are energetic and looking for mom's food at 2 weeks of age before their little eyes even open. I can not say the same for the other foods fed. For me this proves without a doubt that what and how I feed is making a difference.

I just wanted to say that I am sorry that you have to defend yourself and your beliefs. I havent posted much on this forum because I see the constant attacks against members whether it be Kibble vs Raw or Traditional Medicine vs Holistic. There is a reason each area has its own forum. Its so that those who follow or believe in a certain way can stay in their forums with others who have the same opinion. Yet there are some people who feel the need to voice their opinion all over the place, whether it was asked or not. Just because I firmly believe in what I feed doesnt mean I feel the need to push/preach it on others. It took a long journey to end up where I am.

IMO DFC has lost not only a great member but a person with valuable knowledge that was willing to share it with those who asked. I am glad to have met you and know that even though I wont see you on here, I can reach you through other methods  You have become a friend and I look forward to keeping in touch with you.

Good Bye Liz :yo:


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## shellbell (Sep 24, 2011)

No, Liz can't leave! I too have reached out to her via PM and she replied quickly and was very helpful. She is someone whose advice I look for not only when I post a question, but also when I read what other people are asking for advice on. I have definitely learned some valuable things from her regarding PMR and holistic advice in general.


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## lauren43 (Feb 6, 2011)

I think we've lost a lot of very valuable members recently. Its too bad.


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## Tracy (Aug 11, 2012)

Very sad to hear.


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## bett (Mar 15, 2012)

and i find this forum mellow, compared to another i'm on.


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## SpooOwner (Oct 1, 2010)

Wait - wha??? What happened? Or do I need to read through the last week of posts to find out?


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

I have enjoyed and appreciated the opportunity to post on this site and share with many others who are like minded. Over the last few months so many attacks and hurtful comments have been flying around it has made actually helping people second place. I am like all of you - very busy. This site is mild compared to others - I agree. I don't waste my time on other boards arguing and fighting over every word or thought. I have no time for anger and instigating. I also have no time to produce "proof" and "scientific documentation" only to have what little documentation there is torn down as junk theory, etc. I live what I share and don't share what I have not tried or seen work first hand. I have found other sources for sharing information to those who are interested in a more natural lifestyle for themselves and their pets. It works well for me because if you ask for help in that arena you will be seeking assistance from like minded individuals. I am not trying to change anyone - feed what you will, medicate, include chemicals into anything you choose - they are your pets and you are free to do what you feel is best - as I do! At the same time I will no longer defend my beliefs and actions, my feeding practices or Natural Rearing, I refuse to sugar coat my beliefs because of others choices to have more ease in feeding and care, or fear of "what if". I take pride in my animals, their health, temperament and the fact that they Naturally Reared. 

We are seeing a shift in our breeding program which will require more of my time. I enjoy sharing with anyone who has an interest and if you have need please PM me and I will let you know how to reach me. I will, if allowed, keep my account open should you have need or the desire to please feel free to PM me. I have enjoyed sharing with many of you. Twoisplenty - I am proud to call a breeder of your caliber friend. Your dogs are lovely and a fine example of what a good Boxer should be. Thank you for your kind words. I hope to hear from you.  Thank you all for your kindness and friendship.


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## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

Huge loss. Huge, huge loss.


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## Unosmom (May 3, 2009)

Is seems like all the good ones are leaving and instead we're spammed by a bunch of trolls that like to wreak havoc. I enjoyed reading your posts but I understand where you're coming from. I hope you can still contribute through facebook. 
Thank you.


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## BeagleCountry (Jan 20, 2012)

This is indeed very sad. Liz, in a few short months I have learned more from you than from years of reading books. Your kindness and wealth of knowledge came through with every post. You will be truly missed.


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## kathylcsw (Jul 31, 2011)

I will miss your wisdom. You always offered it in such a graceful manner. You are not harsh, angry, or overbearing and that has been greatly appreciated.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

I'm sorry to hear it, I've always thought you were one of the most knowledgeable people here, and I enjoyed reading your posts.


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## Rvent (Apr 15, 2012)

I am so sorry to hear this, its a shame that some people can't appreciate good knowledge from experience and feel the need to be hurtful. Liz your wisdom and advise will be terribly missed, you helped me a lot with your advise, I always looked forward to your post and responses to my post. I hope that when things get a little less busy you might find time to pop back in again to help those of us who truly appreciate your experience.


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## tansox (Jun 22, 2011)

I'm relatively new to this forum and don't post much, but I do read lots! I too am VERY sorry you're leaving; how sad for us "newbies" to lose such a wealth of knowledge, experience and pure understanding. When knowledgeable people leave forums, we're left with people who only _*think*_ they know what they're talking about, and that, as I'm sure you're all aware of, can be very dangerous.

I understand from previous posters why you're leaving, and why should you spend your time giving help to us, especially when some people take delight in throwing it back - totally uncalled for. It's not good for the rest of us when people like you leave but I do understand your reasons. I too am sorry, you'll be missed and I wish now I'd been more active on here. 

May I wish you well in all you do.


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## Chocx2 (Nov 16, 2009)

Let me say, this forum will be loosing a very valuable person, and I for one will miss Liz's post and advice. I hope I can keep in contact with Liz, her knowledge is unmatched.

I don't read everything on this forum, but in the short time I have known Liz through this forum I have come to seek her advise and valued opinion on so many things.

This is a great loss


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

I'm saddened to see this. I think everyone is. Liz has been a truly valuable member of this forum for a long time, and though I don't know her well on a personal level, I've always appreciated and respected her experience. I'm *NOT* new to this forum, and I've seen the ups and downs, and the phases and cycles that this forum has been through, and I am sorely disappointed in the current state of DFC. I'm disappointed in the clashing of different cliques. I'm disappointed in the blatant rude behavior. I'm disappointed that valuable members are being run off for nothing more than sharing their experiences. 

A word about the trolls: folks, you've GOT TO report posts that break rules. The more you report, the more we moderators can actually do! 

I'm torn on closing this thread or not. "goodbye" posts have NEVER been tolerated (I don't actually know of any forum in which they are...) but at the same time, it IS a loss to DFC, and a shame Liz has been disrespected in a way that left this as her only option. For now, I'll leave it open.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

I was torn as well as they've never been allowed before since they tend to just create drama. But maybe this'll show what happens when people cant just be nice and respectful to one another. 

I've been on this forum since it started. Heck I think I'm the only original member left that's stuck it out. I too have seen its ups and downs. Dealt with fair shares of trolls and inappropriate behavior. And a lot of the time I'm labeled the bad guy. I've come REALLY close to walking away from this forum MANY times. But I've invested so much into this community that I just won't let anyone push me that far. 

I definitely think this "Low" time on this forum is definitely one of the lowest, I know that it will turn around because it always does. I will also miss Liz's posts and knowledge here as I think she filled a huge niche in the holistic remedies section. Hopefully we find someone who can fill her giant shoes! 

Liz- I wish you the best in all your future endeavors and remember that you're always welcome back! I'm sure you'd get a standing ovation :thumb:


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## InkedMarie (Sep 9, 2011)

I'm glad the thread wasn't closed, I've been busy and haven't checked in. For the mods, Liz didn't start a good bye thread, someone else did so no need to close it, IMO. 
Liz, I'm sorry to see you go. A few weeks ago, I read my husband some of your posts, including what you do as a breeder. I told him that I wished I was closer, to maybe get a pup sometime and I joked that I'd lose my "scaredness" of raw and no vaccines, pronto because I'd have to in order to get one of your pups! 
I'm sorry to see you leave.


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## Nana52 (Apr 28, 2012)

Liz said:


> I have enjoyed and appreciated the opportunity to post on this site and share with many others who are like minded. Over the last few months so many attacks and hurtful comments have been flying around it has made actually helping people second place. I am like all of you - very busy. This site is mild compared to others - I agree. I don't waste my time on other boards arguing and fighting over every word or thought. I have no time for anger and instigating. I also have no time to produce "proof" and "scientific documentation" only to have what little documentation there is torn down as junk theory, etc. I live what I share and don't share what I have not tried or seen work first hand. I have found other sources for sharing information to those who are interested in a more natural lifestyle for themselves and their pets. It works well for me because if you ask for help in that arena you will be seeking assistance from like minded individuals. I am not trying to change anyone - feed what you will, medicate, include chemicals into anything you choose - they are your pets and you are free to do what you feel is best - as I do! At the same time I will no longer defend my beliefs and actions, my feeding practices or Natural Rearing, I refuse to sugar coat my beliefs because of others choices to have more ease in feeding and care, or fear of "what if". I take pride in my animals, their health, temperament and the fact that they Naturally Reared.
> 
> We are seeing a shift in our breeding program which will require more of my time. I enjoy sharing with anyone who has an interest and if you have need please PM me and I will let you know how to reach me. I will, if allowed, keep my account open should you have need or the desire to please feel free to PM me. I have enjoyed sharing with many of you. Twoisplenty - I am proud to call a breeder of your caliber friend. Your dogs are lovely and a fine example of what a good Boxer should be. Thank you for your kind words. I hope to hear from you.  Thank you all for your kindness and friendship.


I haven't been on here much lately. I haven't visited many other forums of this sort, so don't really have much to compare, but I've been bothered by the snarking and arguing and name calling, etc. Everyone has an opinion and is entitled to it, but attacking those whose opinions differ from yours, well, that's just not acceptable in my ... well, in my opinion.

You were so very kind and patient and helpful when I was struggling with the decision to switch my multiple-issue boy to raw, and have helped me with many other things as well, such as holistic treatment for tapeworms, just to name one. You will be sorely missed, and I sincerely hope to "run into you" on some other venue in the future, but I don't blame you one bit. God bless you and your family, furry and otherwise.

Donna/Nana


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

I just don't understand why there are those here who can't respect others. There are too many people here are wonderful and I consider friends to let the disrespectful ones push me away. I'll just ignore those, since it "takes two" to create arguments. I feel like that's the best way to avoid all the crap. 

Liz, you have taught me and others here so much, and your knowledge is amazing. You will be VERY VERY missed.

PLEASE, everyone just respect what others say and how they feel before jumping on someone for the way they feed or care for their dogs or family.


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## xchairity_casex (Oct 8, 2011)

> I just don't understand why there are those here who can't respect others.


Because there are people in life who cannot respect life in general.

it is extremly sad to see liz go, so many people will be missing out on excellent info who are new to join. i know Liz would/will be the first person i will ever go to about puppy nutrition


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## Janet At Nutro (Mar 11, 2011)

Liz I will miss reading your posts.
Hopefully you'll come back here soon.


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