# Raw Diet- Nervous



## Rtrain (Aug 13, 2012)

Hello,

I just switched our 5 year old yellow lab Ralph to a raw diet starting Sunday. After reading a bunch it seemed like a lot of people suggested using chicken backs for at least the first week if not two. I picked up a 40lb case and packaged into 1lb servings to feed twice a day(100lb dog x 2% weight) He took to it immediately and seems to love the food which was my biggest concern since he's never eaten raw for 5 years. That being said his poop is very minimal and comes out dry and odd shaped. He isn't drinking near as much water which I also read may be a result of the diet but I'm wondering if this is the reason for constipation, or if this type of poop is normal to start. Now that I look up this issue I find a lot of people saying chicken backs don't have enough meat and you need to add something additional when feeding and also because the bone content is so high it constipates the dog. Yet more people are saying you need to trim the fat and organs off and I was under the impression these are essential to the dog's diet. I feel like all the prep I did before starting was wrong and I'm worried I'm doing something bad for my dog. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I know its only been 2 days but its such a difference in feeding from before I don't want to mess up. 

Thanks


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

Congrats on the switch! Chicken backs or leg quarters are recommended at first, with skin fat and organ removed. Organ meat you won't introduce for about two to three months. Slowly, add the skin and fat back on as it looks like poops are fine.

And yes, those are normal poops for raw feeding, they will be much smaller and less frequent. Here is a link for you to help you understand raw and getting started How to Get Started | Prey Model Raw


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## GoingPostal (Sep 5, 2011)

It depends on the dogs, I've always started mine on quarters and both dogs I've switched so far couldn't handle bony meals daily and needed boneless added or they were having crumbly, dry poos. My male is a month into switching and eating everything already, some dogs take months on each protein or get loose stool, it just depends on the dog. Stripping the fat or skin or organs is only in the beginning, if your dog needs it to keep poop normal.


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## Ziggersmom (Jul 4, 2012)

First of all, congratulations in starting raw!  a lot of people start with chicken backs due to the high bone content. It's the bone that helps firm up the stools. I started with quarters because I couldn't find backs easily. You trim the fat at first to avoid digestive upset. This diet is new to your pup and the last thing you want is him having troubles with it. Yes they will drink less water, which is normal. If you're very concerned I've read that people add blood to the water to make it more enticing. If his poops look too dry you could probably try giving him deskinned quarters and see how he does. I hope I helped a little. I'm sure some of the more experienced members will be here shortly. Good luck with your raw endeavors, your dog will thank you for many years to come.


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## Ziggersmom (Jul 4, 2012)

I'm a slow typer. They beat me to it.


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## Rtrain (Aug 13, 2012)

Thanks for the quick replies. 

So I've fed him his first 3 meals without trimming the fat and he's fine. Should I continue giving it or trim? Can I add raw boneless chicken breast to the meal so there is more meat? Especially if I trim the fat I'll need to add something to bring up to required weight


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## SaharaNight Boxers (Jun 28, 2011)

Keep the fat off for a bit longer and then slowly up the amount of fat attached. Organs are added back in later as they are richer. Here's a link to help Dedicated to proper carnivore nutrition - Prey Model Raw Feeding for Dogs & Cats


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## SaharaNight Boxers (Jun 28, 2011)

SaharaNight Boxers said:


> Keep the fat off for a bit longer and then slowly up the amount of fat attached. Organs are added back in later as they are richer. Here's a link to help Dedicated to proper carnivore nutrition - Prey Model Raw Feeding for Dogs & Cats


Oopd read it wrong. I'd keep the extra meat out and keep feeding the fat if he's doing fine with it.


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

If he's doing fine without trimming the fat then I would stay with it. If I were you, I would go to leg quarters since they are meatier. Then assuming all is OK you can give some boneless breast. You will eventually work up to giving the required weight, but giving too much too fast will only cause digestive upset. Don't rush things. 

Be sure to read the link I posted for you. It will help you a lot.


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## newlndnfire (Aug 19, 2011)

I'd keep the fat on now if he's doing fine with it. No sense in the extra work then, hehe. I would maybe start adding the breast in small, thumbnail size peices and add a little bit more when he's doing okay. So say, his next meal add a small thumbnail size peice along with the fat ON chicken. Leave it like this for the next two feedings. If poops are good, add a little bit more the next day, ect.


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## Sarrah (Aug 13, 2012)

I am wanting to start my pup on a raw food diet, and I was advised to start with a chicken/bone and a ORGAN mix, ground.
But now after reading these posts I am wondering if I was given the wrong advice by the raw food company (in London Ontario) It seems many peoples's advice is start with chicken without the organ meat.


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## newlndnfire (Aug 19, 2011)

Yes, start without the organ meat. It's too rich to start off with. You need to slowly introduce raw because the diet is vastly different from kibble.  Start with chicken backs and if you can't get those, chicken quarters.


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## Tobi (Mar 18, 2011)

Sarrah said:


> I am wanting to start my pup on a raw food diet, and I was advised to start with a chicken/bone and a ORGAN mix, ground.
> But now after reading these posts I am wondering if I was given the wrong advice by the raw food company (in London Ontario) It seems many peoples's advice is start with chicken without the organ meat.


Good for you! as for starting with a ground food, it's a bit different than just raw peices of chicken because the bone-meat ratio is going to be different, as well as there will be organs in which can be a cause for loose stools while transitioning.

We started our boy out over a year ago on chicken leg quarters, skin on, fat on, bone in. we did that for over a month, if his poops were a bit too hard we substituted with a bit of chicken breast (whole chickens broken down to keep it cost effective) and went from there, organs shouldn't be started till about 3 months in, and that is where a lot of pre-mixed ground ones can throw people off with their pets getting digestive upset right off the bat.


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## Sarrah (Aug 13, 2012)

Thanks to everyone who has offered advice on where to start with a raw diet.
To a new pet owner who is learning, this forum to a great place for valuable advice.

Now another question from a nervous raw diet beginner. :twitch: 
I have been in touch with a raw food company in my town of London Ontario called K9cuisineraw.
The advice I was given by this company was to start with the ground chicken/bone/ORGAN mixture,
then after reading advice from everyone here, I contacted them again and asked about the chicken backs instead.
The advice I received from a Vince Miller was "Keep in mind you will require an organ meat at 10% of meal, 5% of which MUST be LIVER.Vince. " 
This recommendation is so different from what you people are telling me, and now not only am I nervous but I am unsure
of what direction to go from here.
Any and all advice would be greatly appreciated.
Sarrah


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## LilasMom (Mar 10, 2012)

Sarrah said:


> Thanks to everyone who has offered advice on where to start with a raw diet.
> To a new pet owner who is learning, this forum to a great place for valuable advice.
> 
> Now another question from a nervous raw diet beginner. :twitch:
> ...


He is right you will need 10% organ, but you don't need it for a while. Organ meat is very rich and can cause tummy upsets. When transitioning to raw you start with less rich meats like chicken. Compared to most meats chicken is pretty bland and it a great food for starting raw. If you add in organs too soon, their tummy won't be adjusted to the richness and will most likely have a lot of loose stool. So you start with the most bland and end with the richest. Most people do it in this order: chicken, turkey, pork, fish, beef, eggs, and then finally organ meat. Transitioning can take up to 6 months or more, so don't worry about not having enough nutrients and vitamins in their diet, they will be totally fine during the transition period. I started raw in February and my dogs just transitioned to organ meat this summer, so everything will be fine. No need to be nervous or unsure, the company was right in that they need 5% liver and 5% other, but if doing prey model raw you must adjust to it over the course of several months. The key to prey model raw is balance over time. Once adjusted, some people give organ 1-2 times a week, and some will even do one big organ meal 1-2 times a month. 

So don't worry. Organ meat is necessary, but not for a long time.


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## Gally (Jan 28, 2012)

The company is partially right. You will need that percentage ratio after he is transitioned. To start, it's really better to go slow and introduce one protein at a time before introducing organs last. This slow transition will save your dog a lot of potential digestive upset and save you from frustration later on. It takes many months for a nutrient deficiency in the diet to have an effect so missing out on organs for a few months wont do your dog any harm as you transition.


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## kathylcsw (Jul 31, 2011)

The goal is to work up to 10% organ with at least 5% being liver but you don't want to start with organs too soon. You will likely have a mess on your hands! Get your dog adjusted to several proteins before you even start organs at all. It is probably best to wait about 3 months to get their digestive system stable on muscle meat and bone. You may be able to add organs sooner but it is really better to go s-l-o-w in the beginning. Your dog will have a lifetime of eating organs!


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## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

It totally depends on your dog. Maybe your dog will transition without a problem, you might be able to go a lot faster than a lot of other people, but then again, maybe not. If you feed organs to quickly though, you are liable to get diarreah and that can put people off a raw diet very quickly. 
If you feel your pup's poops are too hard, add in a little bit of skin each meal, as long as he can handle it ok. Like maybe the size of a quarter the first meal, then double it then next meal and so on if he's doing fine. Or, you could try feeding a skinless, fatless leg quarter (whole) and see how he does with the extra extra meat/bone ratio. If the poop is too soft, go back to a chicken back for a meal or two then try the quarter again. You do not want to go too quickly though, just check the poop and take the next meal from there......
And, don't worry, we've all been through this in one form or another and have come out the other side wondering why we were so worried. He'll be fine. Keep it up, we are here if you have any doubts or need any help.


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## sozzle (May 18, 2011)

Rtrain said:


> Hello,
> He isn't drinking near as much water which I also read may be a result of the diet but I'm wondering if this is the reason for constipation, or if this type of poop is normal to start.


Don't worry about the not drinking as much water as a raw diet contains 70%+ moisture. 
Good for you starting your dog on raw, it is a great thing and I am sure you will have wonderful results.
My dog's coat has improved vastly since I started him on raw over a year ago, he had a very rough looking coat, and now it's shiny and soft and even his Pannus has not needed medication (we were told he would need eye drops for the rest of his life) which may or may not be down to his diet?
cheers


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