# Whole prey feeding questions for cats.



## RachelsaurusRexU (Sep 4, 2010)

So I'm seriously considering feeding my cats mainly whole prey mice and chicks and whole ground rabbit (organs, bone and everything included). It's so tough to get them to eat organs alone, so I'm hoping my plan will solve that little issue. One of my cats will eat all cornish hen bones without a problem, another just started eating rib and back pieces, and the other will attempt to eat small meaty bones that I smash up but then he'll quit halfway through. So between whole prey bones and the cornish hen bones that they'll eat, and the variety of boneless chunks I can cut off of the dogs' meals (beef heart, pork shoulder, duck, turkey, etc) I *think* I have a good variety for them and a good meat/bone ratio. However, I'm not sure about organs... Do you think that between the mice, chicks and whole ground rabbit I'll have that base covered? If I have to I can grind some kidney and liver and mix it with the ground rabbit. Roughly, how should I plan out my menu? I was thinking a boneless chunk of whatever in the AM, whole prey item or ground rabbit in the PM, cornish hen bone in the afternoon a couple times a week? I've also been giving them each some beaten egg as an afternoon snack once a week and some raw or canned fish once a week. Think that'll cover everything pretty well? 

This seems so much easier for the dogs.


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## SerenityFL (Sep 28, 2010)

RachelsaurusRexU said:


> This seems so much easier for the dogs.


Could not possibly agree with you more on that!

For the cats, I believe the guideline is 80% meat, 10% bone, 5% liver and 5% other organ.

Mice and chicks are pretty small so that may or may not be enough organ for the kittehs. Maybe add just a little more organ to another meal, depending on how many ounces your cat(s) eat each day.

Edit: Missed the rabbit part. How many cats do you have? That still might not be enough...but if you only have one or two, it may be. I'd still throw in something else there, maybe once a week, just to be sure.


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## RachelsaurusRexU (Sep 4, 2010)

I have three kitties on raw. I wish they'd just eat their darn organs!


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## SerenityFL (Sep 28, 2010)

I got very lucky with four of the seven. They will eat whatever I put in front of them, gotta love 'em.

The others...."THE OTHERS"...sigh...they've made me work and dance through hoops of fire.

However, I discovered something that worked for me and it may or may not work for you...but eh, give it a try:

Not at meal times, but at my meal time, I would get my dinner ready, put it on a plate and set it down on the table for me to eat. I would then grab an organ, (liver, piece of kidney, whatevs), and put that on a plate next to me. (Stick with me here, I know this sounds totally disgusting but it worked.)

After washing my hands, I would sit down at the table to eat my dinner, the plate with the organ also on the table next to my plate.

My cats beg, whine, plead and carry on like they they just crossed the Sahara and had no food or wine for a month, for my food. So, to trick them, I acted like the organ was mine.

I told them, "No!" several times. That just made them want it more. I ate my entire meal while they twirled around my feet, jumped up on the chair and stared at my food, meowed incessantly, until I was done. I then "scraped" the plate, (in the olden days, before raw, I used to let them take a lick or two when I was done and I would signal it was ok by scraping the plate), and allowed them to jump up and get the "human food goodness"; making them believe they were getting away with something.

OR, if you have trained them to leave you alone at meal times, you can also "prepare" your meal, (it's really theirs but they don't know that), and "accidentally" drop a piece of organ on the floor allowing them to get it.

Like I said, this may or may not work for you...it works on my cats because they are sneaky little sh**s and will try to swipe my food away from me whenever possible.

If the manipulation fails, try pouring some fish juice on top of the organ. Like tuna or sardine, (canned in water, of course), and see if they'll accidentally eat it then. That's how I got my most stubborn eaters to switch over.

Barring anything else, grind it up and mix it with their food and make them eat it whether they like it or not! Harumph!

After that, I'm out of ideas.


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## RachelsaurusRexU (Sep 4, 2010)

Hahahaha oh man, you are hilarious!

Thank you for the suggestions. I will surely try all of those things and hope that one works! I love cats, but they sure are a pain in the patootie.


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## hbwright (Jul 14, 2010)

I have to agree with Serenity. I have no problems giving the cats organ. They would be glad to live on organ alone. I think the main reason is because I would cut it up for the dogs and they weren't having that. They steal pieces off the plate. Everything, liver, kidney, heart, fish, that I cut up for the dogs, the cats eat like they've starved for a year. Honestly that is how they got started eating raw in the first place. All but 1, bah. But, he is secluded because of his arthritis so he doesn't have to "compete" for his food.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

We used to feed primarily whole prey to our previous kitties before they went missing. Whole feeder mice, baby chicks, whole small fish and the rest was just chunks of whatever the dogs were eating. I did make sure to give plenty of heart and organs and other red meats for the taurine. Fish shouldn't make up the majority of a cats diet because it lacks in taurine but is a good source of omegas and protein.


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## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

You are going through roughly the same process I am right now in slowly converting my cat over to full raw, so I'm learning alot from your posts. At least your cats are eating a lot more variety than mine will (so far). I tried a feeder mouse but she wouldn't touch it, so that was a big set back. I don't have any hints that will help, but just wanted to wish you good luck and hope they eat the whole prey.
And, have to agree, dogs really are so much easier......


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## RachelsaurusRexU (Sep 4, 2010)

Aw, thank you! Good luck to you also! It took me three months to get them to this point, so I truly believe that with some experimentation and a lot of patience we'll both be able to get them where we want them with this diet. I think I'll grab a few micicles from the pet store today and test it out. I found a couple sites that will ship an order of $100+ for free to my area. One of them only has mice, rats and chicks, but the other has mice, rats, chicks, rabbits, baby piglets AND they make whole carcass grinds with each of the above creatures for raw feeding. I think I'm going stick with the mice, chicks and ground rabbit. This will be tough enough for me to handle :-( 

Oh, one more thing I discovered! One of my cats loves CRICKETS! The first floor of my house is below ground level on one side, so when the weather starts to cool we end up with a few crickets inside. Meatball hunted those little buggers down and ate them like potato chips! There's a woman on catforum.com who raw feeds and buys live feeder crickets for her cats once in a while. I think she said she puts them in a big plastic tub and her cats hop in and pick them off. I bet the bath tub would be a good place for a little snack like that!


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## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

Hey, thats a great idea about the crickets, I had never thought of that! My cat would totally enjoy the catching part as well. Hmmmm, I'll have to nut out how to do it without the other half here catching on. 
There are heaps of lizards around here which my cat loves to hunt (and eat), but the vet clinic told me they can carry tapeworms. Windy enjoys it so much that I don't have the heart to stop her so I get a fecal test done once a month and keep an eye on her health.
By the way, I have been trying to convert her to raw for nearly 6 months now, so I'm quite brassed off that you are doing so much better than me!


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## RachelsaurusRexU (Sep 4, 2010)

MollyWoppy said:


> By the way, I have been trying to convert her to raw for nearly 6 months now, so I'm quite brassed off that you are doing so much better than me!


LOL if it's any consolation, it felt like an eternity!

And I know what you mean about trying to hide (or at least downplay!) certain things from the other half! I warned my boyfriend about the mice last night and his response was "This keeps getting worse and worse!"


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## SerenityFL (Sep 28, 2010)

Rachel, I applaud your efforts and I know it's hard because they are some stubborn little buggers...dang cat attitudes!

But, if this makes you feel any better, (I sincerely hope it does), it is because of YOU that all my cats are now eating raw. See, you were talking about grinders. I even asked a question about that on another forum and you, again, tooted the grinder horn.

So I went and purchased one.

My older cat was now able to eat her raw, (she was the last one to switch over and it was getting extremely difficult because of her special needs with her mouth), and learned to chew and I caught her, last week, I believe it was, chowing down on a chicken neck that I had put on the towel for the other cats.

The most stubborn cat, who had no mouth problems but was just being a picky little brat, took to the ground food like white on rice. As with the older cat, I was eventually able to skip the grinding and cut in to chunks now that they had learned.

None of that would have happened without the grinder. So, you were very instrumental in helping other cats switch over.

I also now have a grinder I no longer need but who cares, it was worth the money.

You can try grinding it all together or you can pour some of that fish juice over the meat. You can put little chunks of it on top of the meat, you can try blending it together. Yes, they shouldn't eat that much fish overall but to get started, use what works.

Don't worry, it will happen. Start off with very small amounts, put it in their food, disguise it, grind it, manipulate them, soak it in something...once they've eaten it once or twice or even three times, you'll find that they will be more willing to do it again.

Then you can up the amounts. You'll get there...you got my stubborn little snots to eat full on raw from way over where you are...that is impressive...so yours will come around. Watch. It will happen.


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## RachelsaurusRexU (Sep 4, 2010)

Aw, that does make me feel better! Thank you  you definitely put a smile on my face and I'm so glad that I was able to help!

I'm definitely going to try a little harder with the organs. It would be FAB if they'd eat them, and then I could just feed them a bit on the days when the dogs get their organs. Easy peasy! (Hopefully!) I stocked up on canned sardines tonight, hopefully those will come in handy in this little endeavor. I know that we'll eventually get there, I'm just so impatient and it's crazy right now because they're all at different stages. 

I also have three little mice thawing in warm water for a trial tonight!

Thank you for the words of encouragement!


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## RachelsaurusRexU (Sep 4, 2010)

So, I have good news and bad news...

The bad news is my cats wouldn't touch the mice. Meatball was actually petrified of hers. Even worse, my dogs wouldn't even eat them  I felt AWFUL for the poor things, granted they were dead and frozen/thawed. I don't think I can handle whole prey anyway. 

The good news, however, is that I got the cats to eat beef kidney tonight!!! Bunny ate hers whole with nothing on it! The other two ate theirs after I cut it up into tiny pieces and mixed it with canned sardine. Hopefully they'll do the same with liver. 

Now I need to get some more variety in their diets, and get Milner and Bunny comfortable with eating bone. Bunny has been better about it. As long as they're really soft, small bones she'll usually eat. Milner won't even eat meal sized chunks of boneless meat yet, I've had to cut it up for him. At least we're making some progress!

There is a buy one get two sale at a grocery store the next town over, so I'll be picking up some boneless chicken breast and double packs of Cornish hens. I have the pork roasts here for the dogs and two of my cats will eat that (I've got to work on the third), they won't touch beef heart yet unless it's in tiny pieces and mixed up with other stuff... I think I'll grab a package of hamburger meat or something. I don't know. 

Baby steps! At least they're on 100% raw now! A couple months ago I NEVER thought I'd get them to this point!


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## hbwright (Jul 14, 2010)

My little hyper T carnivore has now become picky. I don't think she is doing very well at all. I have up on her meds for this reason and to go off fed without them is just not her. She ate small pieces of my deconstructed turkey and wet food though. I think I'm going to start putting heer in the bathroom for her wet food meals though to keep the youngster away from it and on 100% raw. My old girl can't afford to lose an ounce.


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## SerenityFL (Sep 28, 2010)

RachelsaurusRexU said:


> So, I have good news and bad news...
> 
> The bad news is my cats wouldn't touch the mice. Meatball was actually petrified of hers. Even worse, my dogs wouldn't even eat them  I felt AWFUL for the poor things, granted they were dead and frozen/thawed. I don't think I can handle whole prey anyway.


Depends on how you look at it and who you talk to. I don't necessarily find that to be bad news since there are other things they can be fed. I have no intention of feeding them mice or rats or anything like that because I just can't do it. But they will get their nutrients other ways....just wondering what you do with a bunch of unwanted frozen mice. Poor things. 



RachelsaurusRexU said:


> The good news, however, is that I got the cats to eat beef kidney tonight!!! Bunny ate hers whole with nothing on it! The other two ate theirs after I cut it up into tiny pieces and mixed it with canned sardine. Hopefully they'll do the same with liver.
> 
> Now I need to get some more variety in their diets, and get Milner and Bunny comfortable with eating bone. Bunny has been better about it. As long as they're really soft, small bones she'll usually eat. Milner won't even eat meal sized chunks of boneless meat yet, I've had to cut it up for him. At least we're making some progress!


Hurray!



RachelsaurusRexU said:


> There is a buy one get two sale at a grocery store the next town over...


 Buy 1 get TWO free? Stock up, girl!!




RachelsaurusRexU said:


> Baby steps! At least they're on 100% raw now! A couple months ago I NEVER thought I'd get them to this point!


You've done well, grasshopper. Switching over to 100% raw is the hardest part. Now comes the fun of finding out what they will eat and what they don't like. (Mine don't like ground turkey....which is amazing to me considering how often they have begged for any turkey I've been eating...)

Great news, very happy for you.


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## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

Thats the pitts they won't eat the whole mouse, Its not the end of the world but my thoughts were that it was something nice and natural for a cat. Nice little bones made for crunching, fur and innards, a perfect little meal. Maybe warming it up to body temperature might help? I held my poor little thing by the tail in a warm glass of water (killed me as I use to have pet mice as a kid). Made absolutely no difference though, she still wouldn't eat it. No appreciation whatsoever, the little shxt.


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## RachelsaurusRexU (Sep 4, 2010)

Part of me was bummed about the mice, because it would have been such an easy, all-inclusive little meal. The other part was thrilled that I now don't have to buy bags of adorable little meeces  I did try warming them up in water, no dice. I also tried cutting one open, which I REALLY had to force myself to do, and pouring sardine water on them to gain the cats' interest. Nothing. Luckily I only bought three. I eventually got two of my dogs to swallow two of them by putting them in bowls with their beef heart and lots of the blood. The third mouse was crunched up and spit out. Nobody would touch it after that  it was awful. I put the poor thing outside in hopes that some critter will come along and eat it. What I meant by "bad news" was how horrible I felt about the whole situation. I wouldn't have felt as bad if the intended purpose was successful, but to see the poor little bodies laying on my kitchen floor untouched was pretty difficult. Oh well, I'm glad I won't be doing that again. 

Milner ate half of his cut up CGH ribs this morning! I'm definitely going to stock up on those little guys today. Those will likely be their sole bone source for now, though Meatball will eat regular chicken necks. The dogs are eating pork tonight, so hopefully I'll be able to use some of your tricks, SerenityFL, to get princess Meatball to eat her meal! 

I also bought some cool two part containers so I can have my AM and PM meals neatly organized and thawed in a single container  Can't wait to use them!


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

So we adopted two little kitties a few weeks ago. I started them out on raw but it took them some time to get used to it. I initially was mixing ground venison, whole small fish, chicken backs, and a little 95% meat canned food. The chicken backs and small fish were smashed up and cut into bite sized pieces. I would add a bit of hot water to make a soupy food. With each meal prep (would last about 2 days) I would smash and cut things less and less. We are at the point now that I don't have to cut the meat into small pieces, they will gnaw on a good sized chunk of meat. They are making good progress.


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## RachelsaurusRexU (Sep 4, 2010)

That's awesome! What kind of fish do you feed them whole? I'd eventually like to get them eating some raw fish instead of (or at least as well as) the canned stuff. I think I remember seeing tiny little smelt at the Asian market last time I went. They were pretty pricey, but I supose I wouldn't have to buy many and they'd last quite a while...

Why haven't we seen pics of these little kitties, hmmm? (Or perhaps I just missed them?)


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## luvMyBRT (Mar 8, 2010)

RachelsaurusRexU said:


> Why haven't we seen pics of these little kitties, hmmm? (Or perhaps I just missed them?)


That's what I'm wondering too..... :biggrin:


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Haha...well we have taken photos just been bad about uploading them. Their names are Kit and Kaboodle, brother and sister. I will try and get pictures up today!


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## SerenityFL (Sep 28, 2010)

Natalie is right that eventually the pieces can get bigger.

Tonight, I was so irritated by a neighbor when walking Sakari that when I got back, I took out a cut up chicken. I threw the dogs their pieces and cut up my older cat's pieces as well as gave her the neck.

The other cats, I threw the drumstick, wing and thighs as well as the bag of "goodies" on the towel to see if they would just eat the dang thing without me having to cut it all up. (I was seriously annoyed and needed some down time but needed to feed the pets, too.)

Four of the seven ate right from the pieces without being cut up. Obviously the older one has to have hers cut still but not as small as she used to have them cut...so 5 of 7 are making my life easier.

I did eventually have to cut up pieces for the other two but for one of them, the pieces really weren't that small and for the other one, she did take a little bit of time at the big pieces...but she's the stubborn one and decided she didn't want to work that hard. So I had to cut some for her, as well...but again, not as small as they used to be.

I'm hoping that eventually, I won't have to cut so much and when it comes to chicken/bone night, I can just toss down some drumsticks, wings and thighs and they'll go to town. (Older cat will be awhile before that happens, I'm sure.)

But yes, it's getting easier and easier as time goes on.

Sorry about the meeces....I'm sure that wasn't easy to do. I couldn't do it, you did much better at it than I would have done. At least you tried, I give you that.

Best of luck with the pork! Let me know how it went.

Edit: Just as I got done writing that, I looked over and stubborn cat worked her way back to the towel in the kitchen and is chomping on the drumstick. YES! Huzzah!


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## Animal Quackers (Jul 10, 2010)

I'm appreciating reading these posts! We have seven cats, and I would love to get them switched over to raw! One just went right into it when offered raw, and a second will eat it if I cut pieces small enough. The others are not as interested...I need to stock up on chicken breasts and maybe try searing them a bit...

Anyway - I just wanted to thank all involved in contributing to this post!


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## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

RachelsaurusRexU said:


> I also tried cutting one open, which I REALLY had to force myself to do


Really?? You cut one open? Well, you are my mole rodel, I mean, my role model. No matter how much I wanted to I don't think I could do that. Good on ya.
My highness here won't eat fish. She did eat tuna in the beginning, but now won't touch it, I have no idea why she changed her mind, but it does brass you off a touch. Oh well, she's only 2ish so we've got plenty of years left to argue about it.
Oh yeah, the reason I brought that up is that drenching food in fish juice doesn't work for me, damn it all.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

It never bothered me to feed feeder mice to the cats, and I grew up with mice and rats as pets. I just see it as a fact of life that cats are biologically made to eat mice. I haven't yet introduced mice to the new kitties, but will eventually. I really hope I don't have to chop them up into bits, but I will if I have to because mice make a great full meal for them that its worth it.

I've become pretty gruesome in my raw feeding endeavors LOL


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## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

Yeah, I hear you, I should just grunt up a bit. I have no problems being first on scene with gruesome broken legs, being a caretaker for someone after a brain operation where the skull is cut away, all sorts of yukky human stuff. But when it comes to animals, I'm a major sook.


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## RachelsaurusRexU (Sep 4, 2010)

I have a few tidbits of awesome news today! 

First of all, I thawed a container of CGH that I had previously deconstructed. Last night, for hahas I tossed the liver to Bunny and Milner. Wouldn't you know that they ate it!!! Meatball wanted nothing to do with it, but I think I discovered the key to Meaty's pickiness... 

As I mentioned earlier, pork was on the menu for everyone last night. Meaty wasn't thrilled. She just kinda looked at me, like "What the heck is this? This couldn't possibly be my meal. Servant, bring me my supper!" Well, she looooves her CGH, so I took a bit of meat from the bird I had just thawed, cut it up, cut up her pork and mixed it together in a bowl. After about five minutes of sniffing, she practically dove into it and it was GONE! So I think Meaty is weirded out by new things. If it doesn't smell familiar, she doesn't seem to want to try it. If I mix it with something she knows, she'll eat it and realize she likes it! 

The third awesome thing that happened was Milner finally ate his meal in one big chunk! He goes nuts for pork, so he went right for it and ate it within minutes! I'm so proud of my kitties this week! 

SerenityFL, super awesome about your picky kitty and the others that ate their meals whole! I can't wait to get them all to that point!

MollyWoppy, you're the second person I've heard say their cat doesn't like fish! What's up with that? Have you tried salmon, sardine or mackerel instead of tuna?


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## RachelsaurusRexU (Sep 4, 2010)

Oh, and I went to that store with the sale... The CGH only ended up being buy one get one for the two packs. Still awesome, but they were so marked up that it wasn't much of a deal. I still got two packages. I did get buy one get two on boneless chicken breast! I also bought some chicken liver and ground meatball/meatloaf mix, which is beef, veal and pork. The cats had that for breakfast and loved it


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