# Grissom's dirty little secret



## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

Okay, I admit it. Grissom eats poop. :frown: Not just a little, and not just every now and then. He eats as much as he can, whenever he can. 
Never his own, always Champ's. It's never mattered what I feed them, be it kibble, raw, a combination of both. He's never been negatively punnished during potty training, and yes, I stop him if I catch him, but reality is I can't sit outside all day and all night. If Champ poops, Grissom is on it in about two seconds. We keep it cleaned up the best we can, and for a long time he just didn't have the opportunity to get to it, therefore problem solved. Well....We live on the edge of a huge hill, and since January, the poo gets thrown far over the edge of the hill. Grissom has learned to dig under the fence and go down the hill to get to it recently, therefore making the problem bigger than ever. 
I'm not all that concerned about him getting anything from it, as I know Champ doesn't have anything to pass on, what I'm concerned about is when he does it, it gives him BAD diarrea, and I have to leave him out at night or he'll poo everywhere. This is not going to be an option come winter when it's cold outside. I've got to break this habit before it's too cold to sleep outside, or my garage is going to be one big poopy mess. :frown:
I don't like to give supplements. I don't feel like they work, but I have resorted to reading reviews on coprophagia deterrent tablets, and unless anyone has a better idea, that's the route I will have to try next. most of them are designed to stop a dog from eating their OWN poop, which Griss never ever does. He eats Champ's. Would I give the pills then to Grissom, or to Champ?


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## rannmiller (Jun 27, 2008)

I've heard that adding pineapple to the dog's diet will make their poop taste so awful, the dogs don't want to eat it anymore. You could always try that! And in that case, you would be feeding the pineapple to Champ so it's his poop that tastes awful to Griss. But I'm sure Griss wouldn't mind you adding some pineapple to his diet too every now and then, if he feels left out.


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

rannmiller said:


> I've heard that adding pineapple to the dog's diet will make their poop taste so awful, the dogs don't want to eat it anymore. You could always try that! And in that case, you would be feeding the pineapple to Champ so it's his poop that tastes awful to Griss. But I'm sure Griss wouldn't mind you adding some pineapple to his diet too every now and then, if he feels left out.


I tried that a while back, also tried pumpkin. I also tried putting pepper on the piles in hopes that eventually he'd just give up even trying. Not the case. I'm at my wits end with it. Before he decided to dig under the fence, it was manageable by just keeping it picked up. Now he's found access to eight months worth of poop. :frown: It's constant loose stools. I don't like making him sleep outside, and come winter, that won't be an option anyway. gurrrrrr. Why MY dog? why? lol.


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

I had 2 Goldens who were very bad about that. I tried all the folk remedies I could find and nothing worked. Putting them on a prey model raw diet stopped them eating their own and each other's but they still would eat "found" poop. My 2 Danes readily eat wild animal poop but rarely eat their own or each others. They love deer poop and whatever else they happen upon. THey just never run across other dog's poop so I don't know what they would do with that. None of my dogs has ever had any digestive upset from eating poop.


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## rannmiller (Jun 27, 2008)

Man CorgiPaws, that's pretty awful! I'd say your first and best option is to fill in the holes with something he cant dig through (like cement or rocks). And either keep on it or try the coprophagia deterrent tablets.


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

Have you tried giving your dog papaya enzymes, that is suppose to do the trick! It's also good for people with digestive problems, it's all natural so it won't hurt Champ.


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

whiteleo said:


> Have you tried giving your dog papaya enzymes, that is suppose to do the trick! It's also good for people with digestive problems, it's all natural so it won't hurt Champ.


I've never heard anything about that, where do I get them>? Are they expansive? I'll have to look up more about that. For now, I'm going to get some of the tablets, but which dog do I give them to?


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

RawFedDogs said:


> Putting them on a prey model raw diet stopped them eating their own and each other's but they still would eat "found" poop.


While I do believe this is the best diet, he still did this while they were on raw. It has never mattered what I am feeding either of them. 
Now how am I supposed to know if the Evo is sitting well with him when he gets such terrible stools from eating all the poop? (I'm talking he will snack on it all day long if I let him!) 
I want to do what's best for my dogs, and at the same time, I need to figure it out ASAP and fix the issue before winter hits, and it's coming fast. 
I'm adding a jar of NaturVet Coprophagia Deterrent Tablets to our food order at work. They have mixed reviews, more good than bad, and they're the only ones I can get for cheap $6 for 60 tablets because I get them wholesale. I'm assuming I give them to Champ, rather than Griss? 

I'd fill in the holes he's dug with concrete, but it's not my property, the fence is on such a terrible hill I couldn't DIY the job, and it's a whole acre of land.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

CorgiPaws said:


> Now how am I supposed to know if the Evo is sitting well with him when he gets such terrible stools from eating all the poop?


I wouldn't assume that eating poop is giving him loose stools, it could be a number of things. I have known more than several dogs that have gotten loose stools from EVO, 2 of them being my own before switching to RAW. Some dogs just cannot handle the richness of a grain free, very high protein food like EVO.

Have both of them been tested for parasites or colitis lately? If not I would check those off your list right away from likely suspects.


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

Corgipaws, any health food store will carry those pills and you would give them to Champ!


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

danemama08 said:


> I wouldn't assume that eating poop is giving him loose stools, it could be a number of things.


I know it's the eating poop. before he dug under the fence, the only time he'd get it was if he got to champ's poop before I could get to it to clean it up. It has only been the last two weeks or so that he's learned to get under the fence, and that's when he's had the diarreah. Now he eats so much he has even vomited it back up. :frown:
This is an incredibly steep hill, almost a cliff, I'm suprised he has no problem getting up and down it. If I could do it, I would go down and shovel all 9 months worth into a dumpster... but that's not an option



danemama08 said:


> I have known more than several dogs that have gotten loose stools from EVO,


I know a few as well, most of which had owners that were over feeding them on it. (not saying you were, you probably knew better) but he's only getting 1/3 C am and PM. Shouldn't be too much for him.



danemama08 said:


> 2 of them being my own before switching to RAW. Some dogs just cannot handle the richness of a grain free, very high protein food like EVO.


He was on raw and then I had to take him off because I'm living wigh grandparents who wanted their freezer space back. 
A raw diet is MUCH richer and has MUCH more protein than any kibble, and he handled that just fine. 



danemama08 said:


> Have both of them been tested for parasites or colitis lately? If not I would check those off your list right away from likely suspects.


I had them both tested about a week ago when the problem got worse just to make sure he wasn't going to get anything. (I think I mentioned this in the first post. Oh well, amybe not) They were both clear. 



I like Evo (for a kibble) and until I can go raw I'd like to keep him on it. Last night I gave him a little bit of Max's California Natural mixed with his Evo, he seemed to really enjoy it, I'm considering putting him on it until his tummy is soothed. I won't get the deterrent tablets in til Wednesday. I'm really hoping they work, but I don't have much faith in them.


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

whiteleo said:


> Corgipaws, any health food store will carry those pills and you would give them to Champ!


Thanks, I will definately look into this more and probably try it out. :biggrin:


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## claybuster (Dec 18, 2008)

I would continue with nutrition as a possible solution. I know you said it didn't matter, you tried all the diets including raw and nothing worked. Don't give up on the nutrition as an avenue to explore when seeking answers.

Your Grissom is a Toy Breed, correct? Their nutritional requirements are that of high energy dogs. They may be little but also fearless at the same time. They are high energy. One thing I noticed and maybe you have too, Toy Breed diets in comparison are generally higher in proteins. It's up there with the working dogs breeds. And if you happen to notice on the website of my feed maker, the protein is really cranking in the Toy Breed Granular, much higher than what I am feeding now.. There is a reason for this, and companies try to address the issue (some companies do it better than others). Pro-Plan has a new Toy formula and they bring it up to 30%. Remember if your kibble contains fruit and vegetables, you should discount that value while looking at the protein numbers.

They smell the protein in the poop and from that they can actually know what the other animal has been eating. Could be fish in the diet or poultry, meat, but those proteins are recognizable in smell to the dogs nose. Dogs are notorious from cleaning out the kitty litter box, and Cat food is a higher protein food than for dogs. You rarely see a cat food under 35%. Again, the protein in the cat food is there and the dogs knows its there. 

Hopefully when you get back into raw feeds in the future when your arrangements will allow, you can attack the problem again from a nutrition angle and hopefully you won't need a supplements or pills. good luck.


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## jdatwood (Apr 13, 2009)

CorgiPaws said:


> he's only getting 1/3 C am and PM. Shouldn't be too much for him.


Can you cut that out for a week to see how his digestive system reacts?


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

claybuster said:


> I would continue with nutrition as a possible solution. I know you said it didn't matter, you tried all the diets including raw and nothing worked. Don't give up on the nutrition as an avenue to explore when seeking answers.


I'm just running out of time. When the snow starts to fall, putting him outside will no longer be an option, and my grandparents will not appreciate water stools all over the place inside, ya know?



claybuster said:


> Your Grissom is a Toy Breed, correct?


Absolutely not. He's a Pembroke Welsh Corgi, they're a little bigger than a Beagle, which I wouldn't consider a toy. Erhhh not that there's anything wrong with toys. heh.



claybuster said:


> They smell the protein in the poop and from that they can actually know what the other animal has been eating. Could be fish in the diet or poultry, meat, but those proteins are recognizable in smell to the dogs nose. Dogs are notorious from cleaning out the kitty litter box, and Cat food is a higher protein food than for dogs. You rarely see a cat food under 35%. Again, the protein in the cat food is there and the dogs knows its there.


This was my origional thought, that it was all based on what I was feeding them, and the smells, etc. But at this point, I'm thinking it's more of just a habit now, a behavioral issue. My reason for believing this is that even when they were both on raw, eating the same meats, he still did it. He did it when Champ was on Canidae, and then when he switched to Evo.



claybuster said:


> Hopefully when you get back into raw feeds in the future when your arrangements will allow, you can attack the problem again from a nutrition angle and hopefully you won't need a supplements or pills. good luck.


I'm hoping that the pills are going to be temporary, I'm just limited on their diet with my current living situation. I contacted the maker of the tablets, and they confirmed I'd give them to Champ. They also suggested that I continue with the tablets for four to six weeks after the habit stops (if it works at all) because it's a bahavior thing. 


The last two days I've been giving him Max's California natural Herring ans Sweet Potato. I'm not a huge fan of the ingredients in this food, but it's worked wonders for max's sensitive tummy. Grissom's poop was definately not solid yet, but it had some form. Not just a puddle of goo.


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## olla86 (Sep 13, 2009)

Pills are necessary but first you should consult with a vet and with a dog-trainer according to dogs' habit...


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

olla86 said:


> Pills are necessary but first you should consult with a vet and with a dog-trainer according to dogs' habit...


Vets are only good for surgery.
I know enough about dog training. People pay me to train their dogs. 
I've been using the pills for about a week and a half, and so far no improvement, but the manufacturer informed me it can take a month to start working.


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## jdatwood (Apr 13, 2009)

olla86 said:


> Pills are necessary


Pills are necessary for WHAT? If you're going to give advice at least provide some substance behind it


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

CorgiPaws said:


> Vets are only good for surgery.
> I know enough about dog training. People pay me to train their dogs.
> I've been using the pills for about a week and a half, and so far no improvement, but the manufacturer informed me it can take a month to start working.



What are these pills called?

And it might take outside help to curb such a problem such as Grissom's...


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

I personally think y'all are making much more of a deal out of this than it really is. Gross as it seems to us, this is just something dogs do. In the wild, dogs will eat all kinds of poop from all kinds of different animals. 

My dogs eat deer poop, rabbit poop, and other unidentifyable poop. I have heard of dogs eating horse poop and mine probably would too but they just don't have access to it. As far as I can tell, its just something that dogs do that is completely natural to them but gross to us. I have never heard of a dog getting sick from snacking on the droppings of themselves or other animals.


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

danemama08 said:


> What are these pills called?
> 
> And it might take outside help to curb such a problem such as Grissom's...


Coprophagia DETERRENT™ Tablets from NaturVet

Outside help for what? What is a "trainer" going to do that I can't do with him? He's not going to get any illness from it. Champ is perfectly healthy. It's just a disgusting habit that annoys me, so I'm trying to find a solution. When I move in December, he won't have access to this little habit of his.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

CorgiPaws said:


> Coprophagia DETERRENT™ Tablets from NaturVet
> 
> Outside help for what? What is a "trainer" going to do that I can't do with him? He's not going to get any illness from it. Champ is perfectly healthy. It's just a disgusting habit that annoys me, so I'm trying to find a solution. When I move in December, he won't have access to this little habit of his.


Never heard of the tablets.

I'm merely suggesting that if nothing that you have tried behaviorally hasn't worked it might be worthwhile to look into someone else for help. Especially if he has to cut this behavior out by winter... 

Not trying to attack you and say that you haven't done enough. I don't know you or what you are capable of as far as understanding dog behavior. I just know that its never a bad thing to ask for help from others.


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

danemama08 said:


> Never heard of the tablets.
> 
> I'm merely suggesting that if nothing that you have tried behaviorally hasn't worked it might be worthwhile to look into someone else for help. Especially if he has to cut this behavior out by winter...
> 
> Not trying to attack you and say that you haven't done enough. I don't know you or what you are capable of as far as understanding dog behavior. I just know that its never a bad thing to ask for help from others.


It's a behavior problem, yes. Perhaps. The problem is that I can't sit outside with him constantly to make sure he doesn't do it- which is exactly what a trainer told me to do. It's not realistic. 
When I catch him in the act, I stop him and correct the behavior. The only other option would be to tie him at one end of the yard, and tie Champ at another, so he can't get to it. That is not an option for me, at all. I won't tie them up, as I'm almost positive no one else would do that to their dogs.
I put him on California Natural temporarily, so settle his tummy. he has solid stools now for the most part. It's a lot more grain heavy than I like, but it's the route I will have to go until December when I get the boys back on raw.

The whole habit is irritating, but I'm satisfied enough with his stools at the moment to not lose sleep over it. It was when he couldn't make it through the night that it was a problem.
A lot of companies that make supplements for dogs have a line of deterrent tablets, I just went with NutriVet because they had decent reviews, a money back guarantee, and I can order them through work at wholesale.


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