# New Puppy!



## MollyWoppy

Well, don't ask me how because I would never have believed it in my wildest dreams, but exactly 2 weeks ago I managed to adopt another blue heeler cross. My husband was kind of for it in the beginning, but wanted me to buy an ACD from a breeder, which, unfortunately for him, at my current stage of life, is just not me, I have to adopt a dog that needs a home.
So, I found this puppy at Mississippi East Rescue. He had been dumped on a freeway, in the middle of the night during a thunderstorm. The rescue group pulled him from the shelter and I adopted him from there. They think he was around 8 weeks old when he was dumped, 11 weeks old when I adopted him. I drove up to Mississippi in the rain (from SW Florida) 2 weeks ago.
He is a darling, he really is. I have fallen in love with him, I truly have. My very first male dog. Saying that, he has a lot of issues, namely food aggression. Oh man, I've never come across a puppy that didn't think every person and every dog is his best friend, so I feel so awful for him because at this age his life should be all rainbows and butterflies. But he is nervous, scared and frightened of new people and new dogs. I was horrified and so sorry to see such a young pup up on his hind legs, snarling and launching himself at Mollie, my other ACD cross, what on earth in his short little life would make him that way?
So, with alot of advice from xchairity_casex and magicre I am working hard on managing his food aggression. Very happy today to report that he dropped on command a pork neck bone which is a huge high value item for him.
He starts puppy classes/socialisation classes in 2 weeks, which I am very happy about. He is going everywhere with Mollie and me, meeting new people, new dogs, new situations, cars (which he is terrified of), trying to do everything I can as I know the socialisation window is so short.
Anyway, here are some pictures of the little bugger. BTW, the husband is starting to adore him, although he won't come out and say it right now. Oh yes, after much toing and froing, we named him Joey. I am happy because a Joey is a baby kangaroo, hence the downunder connection, the husband is happy because his favourite uncle was Uncle Joe, and, the MIL is happy because her name is Josephine so of course we named him after her! (ROFL).
And, one other thing that made me think hard for 5 minutes before committing to him, is that he was neutered at approximately 10 weeks old. But, we will take that and any problems it causes as it comes. He is worth it. xxx


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## flashyfawn

Congrats, he is super cute! And very lucky to have ended up with you, also. I agree, it is rough to see a puppy that young have those kinds of issues, I have been there myself with one of my dogs. But it sounds like he's already making progress and is well on his way to learning all about the good life.


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## Sprocket

I LOVE HIM! I am such a sucker for ACD's and he is so gorgeous. I am so happy for you and Molly gets a friend! 

I never realised how much Mol looks like a GSD.


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## lauren43

I just love him. He is so cute. What are you doing about the food aggression (out of curiosity)? And keep up that socialization, you got him with time to spare!!! That's my biggest regret with Avery, missing that window. I have to whole heartily believe that's where his stranger issues stem from (though he was good outside of the house for the first year)...


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## Herzo

Aw Pennie I am so happy for you, you have wanted another for so long. He is a doll and Molly is looking great. How is she handling having a little brother? The way she is looking at him doesn't look like hate to me  this would be a good thing.

Keep up the good work I'm sure he is young enough he will come out of it but as you already know ACD's can be very, very hard headed. When I took Abigail (RIP) to puppy class years ago the trainer called them a beagle in a dogs coat hahahahaha. I once had a full blooded one and I have never seen a harder headed dog even with all my hounds. But she was also the toughest dog I have ever had. Well I think Richter is as tough.


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## SuperPug

Oh my goodness!
He's so freaking cute! He's just a bundle of energy isn't he?


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## FBarnes

Wow! He is gorgeous!!! And you take some great pictures  I am amazed that you already got him to drop something on command, knowing his issues. That's a testament to your patience and tenacity.


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## Felix

Adorable! I hav an ACD cross that was neutered at 12 weeks. He's now 6 years old and a healthy happy pup! I'm sure Joey will be just fine! Good luck with the aggression though, I've never had a dog with a problem like that, it must be very frustrating. Your pics make me want another puppy! OMG is he cute!


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## magicre

do i see a little corgi in that face?

wow. pics. thank you. he is just gaw-jus 

such a happy little pup......i'm glad you're getting a handle on the aggression. i was sure you would....since you know how dogs think...

i love the pics.....i think they are going to do great. glad hubby likes him. whether he says so or not.


and i truly think that name fits him.


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## NewYorkDogue

Yay! I love the pictures of him springing around and having a ball.  And, yeah-- the name is perfect.

How is the relationship between Mol and Joey? He seems to be right at home, in his new home. Congrats again!


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## kathylcsw

He is so cute! Sounds like you are doing great handling his issues.


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## MollyWoppy

Thanks for the nice comments you guys. 
I am really enjoying this little pup, he has changed the dynamics of the household here too, it's so nice to have a breath of fresh air, the energy, the wide eyed wonder of a young pup exploring the world. 
Mollie still isn't too impressed. She is tolerant, but keeps looking at me and I can tell she's telling me that it's time this pup went home Mum. She'll just have to suck it up, but saying that, she is still my girl, my first born so I'm very careful to give her as much attention as she has always had.
His food aggression is changing. He has to work for every bit of food he gets. At the moment I'm feeding them separately, Mollie gets her food first in the kitchen whilst Joey is tied to a door handle and has to sit, watch and wait without any commotion. He's stopped the whining and thrashing around now and sits there and waits. Then Windy gets her cornish hen slowly cut up, and patted if she eats it then his food is prepared. He's then fed in the garage, just for now, so he knows his food is not going to be taken from him by the other animals. He has to sit and wait as I hand feed him each piece, or if it's a hunk of meat, I hold it whilst he eats and then give it to him to finish the bone. That's going well too, at first he was all over me and trying to bite my hand whilst eating, now he sits, waits and eats a lot more gently. I'm gradually going to decrease the distance and time difference between the two dogs eating. 
When he's playing with other dogs, if one tries to discipline him or hurts him, instead of backing away, he goes in for the kill so to speak. So now he always trails a short rope leash and I'm hyper vigilant at learning his warning signals and stepping in before it escalates. I tell him no, take him away and make him sit or something to get his attention and to try and turn it into a positive situation. 
Any other tips are very welcome. I think the fear aggression with other dogs is something I will have to manage as opposed to curing, thats just the way ACD's can be with other dogs anyway. 
And, one thing I've noticed, I don't know if it is just him, or if it is because he is a male, but he is super cuddly, always wanting to lie on or with you. Thats something I'm not use to.
Anyway, sorry to carry on, I still can't believe I managed to pull off getting another dog into this household, so I'm a dork, still thrilled and excited. 
And, yeah Sprocket, the older Mollie gets, the more like a GSD she looks. Her coat has got really, really thick the past 6 months for some reason. Here is a pic of her as a pup at about the exact same age as Joey is now. I obviously have a 'type' of dog I like. (yes, that is paint, we had just put in the new granite that day after 3 years of not having a kitchen after the hurricane).


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## lauren43

I have one suggestion for the food aggression issues (but I can see you are working with him very nicely)...But when you get up to leaving him to eat on his own, walking by him periodically throwing yet more food every time you come near can help greatly.

As for the dog issues, I would just shove a treat in his face every time you think he is going to be too rough (or attacks to kill as you say)...Distraction is going to be your best defense here. Getting his attention on you and away from the dog in question. It may be something you have to deal with forever as, just like people, not all dogs like all other dogs, but he may just be going through a phase as he ages you'll know which way he's headed.


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## MollyWoppy

I had thought of sticking a treat in his face the moment he raises his lips, shows his teeth and just before he launches his whole body towards the other dog. But I wondered if he would think I was rewarding him for that behaviour. That is the reason why I thought getting straight in his face, tell him no, take him a foot or so away, make him sit and then give him a treat when his attention is on me. Or am I overthinking it? Am I probably taking too long? Distracting him with a treat the second he lifts his lip would be a lot quicker thats for sure.This is so hard to figure out so I really appreciate your help.

Oh one thing, often he is peeing himself when he launches towards the other dog. It all happens very quickly, one moment he's playing just fine, the next moment something overwhelmes him or he gets frightened and he's attacking, and I really mean full blown biting and attacking the other dog. Poor Mollie had puppy bite marks on her ear from one episode when she tried to discipline him (nicely as older dogs do) and he fought back. 
The other thing is that he does put out an awful lot of calming signals. Licking his lips a lot when meeting strange dogs is his main one, but he is still straining at the leash and sniffing towards the other dog at the same time. Or if I come towards him too quickly and it makes him nervous, he licks his lips and yawns, so I approach more at an angle not looking directly at him and give him a treat when I get to him.
God, sure wish I was more confident in what I'm doing, I really hope I don't screw him up for life!


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## mewlittle

oh wow what a cutie pie congrates on getting him


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## lauren43

It sucks cause the smallest things can change their opinions forever, but don't over worry yourself, it's too easy to feel guilty and blame yourself. Dogs can be so darn sensitive. I understand being concerned about rewarding the "aggressive" behavior. From what I understand you can still change the conditioned response, even if they are in that mode. I know with leash reactivity they suggest the same thing, you do want to get them as or before they react but they see scary thing--magic food appears..hmm maybe said scary thing isn't so scary. So do what you can, be very aware of him (which it already sounds like you are) and try to get him before he reacts. Actually even just rewarding good reactions with other dogs can help.


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## magicre

oh, i think that granite is beautiful......how did you know those were my colours...and, the dog goes nicely with it too 

i think you're doing great and i think this pup is very lucky...

there were times when bubba was tethered as i made the food....we used the NILIF method, quite often........nothing in life is free...and i think, with time, and you...he will be a great dog.....

levi, at nine months, often has this two food leash on......so i can catch him as he flies by. training is forever, from the most balanced of dogs to the most fearful...rescue.


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## Celt

Maybe, get his attention on you before you treat. Call his name or make a truely strange sound to get him to look at you then shove the treat under his nose. This way, he might think he's getting treated for looking to you when he's unsure. Then direct his attention to the other dog and treat him for being "calm" then. Or maybe "program" him to a sound first, sorta like loading a clicker. I kind of did this as a recall command for a very nervous dog, I had. i'll stop now as I seem to be babbling.


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## MollyWoppy

Thank you, I am listening to all your advice. What you're saying does make sense so I'll start doing that. When I see him starting to get snotty, I'll get his attention on me and reward immediately instead of taking him away from the situation and then rewarding. Thanks, all your help is so appreciated. If you think of anything else, please don't be shy! :smile:


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## Herzo

You really do have a type, don't you they look so much alike at that age. Will be fun to see if they turn out the same. I'm glad he is doing better and sorry I don't have any good input as I am a lousy dog trainer.

Love seeing your pictures though!


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## Felix

Definitely sticking a treat in his face will be rewarding the negative behavior and it'll just get worse. My dog never had any aggression, but when he would get too rough at the dog park, I'd scruff him (yes the dog) and make him roll on his side and stay there until he settled down. Now if I say a harsh HEY! He'll just roll on his side on his own. And if he doesn't I push his butt over until he's completely prone. 

Now I do it when he sees a particularly barky dog on our walks and he tries to pull and lunge on the leash at the dog and growl and just make all kinds of commotion, he mostly wants to play, but I don't allow that behavior. So he gets scruffed and down he goes, when he gets up, he's a different dog and usually walks calmly past. If he isn't calm, I give him a few chances and turn arounds until he gets his act together to calmly pass the dog without incident.


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## lauren43

Felix said:


> Definitely sticking a treat in his face will be rewarding the negative behavior and it'll just get worse. My dog never had any aggression, but when he would get too rough at the dog park, I'd scruff him (yes the dog) and make him roll on his side and stay there until he settled down. Now if I say a harsh HEY! He'll just roll on his side on his own. And if he doesn't I push his butt over until he's completely prone.
> 
> Now I do it when he sees a particularly barky dog on our walks and he tries to pull and lunge on the leash at the dog and growl and just make all kinds of commotion, he mostly wants to play, but I don't allow that behavior. So he gets scruffed and down he goes, when he gets up, he's a different dog and usually walks calmly past. If he isn't calm, I give him a few chances and turn arounds until he gets his act together to calmly pass the dog without incident.


I don't know how easy it is to reward aggression, perhaps getting his attention first is key. I personally don't believe in using dominance techniques period but especially not in training. If your dog is still reacting your method is not working. And for some dogs the roughness you are describing can be a recipe for disaster (heard too many horror stories of dogs biting the shovee after being shoved to the ground)...

But to each their own. I'd never recommend this method to anyone.


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## Felix

lauren43 said:


> I don't believe that treating a dog that's just lifted their lips will reward the behavior. I also don't believe in using dominance techniques period but especially not in training. If your dog is still reacting your method is not working. And for some dogs the roughness you are describing can be a recipe for disaster (heard too many horror stories of dogs biting after being shoved to the ground)...
> 
> But to each their own. I'd never recommend this method to anyone.


He reacts still because I'm not consistent (I'll admit that). He's 6 years old, I've been a little lax on him. And I'm never rough, he doesn't get *SHOVED* like you described. Please don't jump to conclusions. My dog came to me at a year old and on the verge of getting euthanized, he had a lot of bad behaviors that we have since worked on. But after 5 years I think he deserves a break every now and again.

I've seen too many aggressive dogs or dogs on the verge of aggression that snarl, lunge and attack other dogs and get petted afterwards to 'calm them down' but all it does is reward the aggression and in the end they get put down. And yes, to each his own.


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## lauren43

What you are describing is called a dominance roll. No matter how gently you conduct it, not all dogs will respond by submission, I've seen the other end of this with a dog that goes after you the second you let them up.


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## lauren43

Here's a great article on fear based aggression:
https://www.msu.edu/~silvar/fear.htm


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## Felix

lauren43 said:


> What you are describing is called a dominance roll. No matter how gently you conduct it, not all dogs will respond by submission, *I've seen the other end of this with a dog that goes after you the second you let them up.*


Hmm, I would find that quite annoying if not scary.


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## Sprocket

lauren43 said:


> What you are describing is called a dominance roll. No matter how gently you conduct it, not all dogs will respond by submission, I've seen the other end of this with *a dog that goes after you the second you let them up*.


Mikey is like this. It is scary. Maybe its a breed thing because he is part ACD. He tends to be nippy and aggressive with other dogs. Play to him is him snarling, biting, chasing, not a cute wrestle like Gunner. Mikey will get aggressive with other dogs and people but one word from me, he deflates and settles down. 

Its not fun to deal with, at all. I don't trust him with children, or many people. 

I hope you can get a handle on this behavior, Mollywoppy. A friend of mine just adopted an Australian Shepherd/Lab/Catahoula mix puppy from the same rescue that Gunner came from. He is the same way with adult dogs. He tends to go after them pretty aggressively even when they try to discipline him. I keep telling his owner that she needs to get a handle on it because I would hate for him to be like Mikey. Life is no fun for a jerk dog. 

Have you enlisted a trainer to help deal with his issues?


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## MollyWoppy

Yes, he starts puppy classes, not this Tuesday, but next Tuesday. It was meant to be last week but we've had medical appointments for my husband which are pretty important so as much as I hated it, he had to come first.
The reason I chose this place is because I can continue from puppy classes right through to competitive obedience, and agility, which is what I would love to end up doing with him. I've spoken to the owner/trainer quite a few times times so she is aware of his problems and is keen to work with us. I am hoping that since we are probably going to spend a few years going through all the classes, they will get to know and understand Joey intimately so they can help me throughout the various behavioural problems he's bound to have. 
If I continue having problems (I got bitten a beauty today - my fault) then I will get a behaviorist involved too.


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## flashyfawn

What about interrupting play when everything is still fine? I realize that sounds odd but what I'm thinking is that if his arousal level goes sky high, which it sounds like it does and wouldn't be all that unusual for that breed/type I think, maybe he needs to learn how to calm down. Play a little, everybody calms down and chills out, then play again, etc. Not always for a set amount of time though, I think it needs to be random. Some dogs need to be taught how to be calm--get excited but then have enough self control to relax when they need to. Don't know, just the first thing I thought of, and it may be hard at this point to redirect him. But my thinking is that if you can teach a dog to be calm and focus on you in the face of distractions, you can do nearly anything.

And definitely keep in mind that you are not perfect and neither is he. It's okay if not every day is a great day, it's okay if you make a mistake and look back at a certain situation and realize what you could/should have done differently. Unfortunately the learning curve of a dog does not go up and up in a straight line. What you want to see is a general improvement in his behavior and in your ability to prevent mistakes and manage him. When my crazy girl was a puppy I had those "what did I get myself into" days and I remember people telling me it would get better and I didn't always believe that, but it did. You might consider keeping a journal of his behavior, that way you can look back and really see the improvement.


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## Felix

flashyfawn said:


> What about interrupting play when everything is still fine? I realize that sounds odd but what I'm thinking is that if his arousal level goes sky high, which it sounds like it does and wouldn't be all that unusual for that breed/type I think, maybe he needs to learn how to calm down. Play a little, everybody calms down and chills out, then play again, etc. Not always for a set amount of time though, I think it needs to be random. *Some dogs need to be taught how to be calm*--get excited but then have enough self control to relax when they need to. Don't know, just the first thing I thought of, and it may be hard at this point to redirect him. But my thinking is that if you can teach a dog to be calm and focus on you in the face of distractions, you can do nearly anything.
> 
> And definitely keep in mind that you are not perfect and neither is he. It's okay if not every day is a great day, it's okay if you make a mistake and look back at a certain situation and realize what you could/should have done differently. Unfortunately the learning curve of a dog does not go up and up in a straight line. What you want to see is a general improvement in his behavior and in your ability to prevent mistakes and manage him. When my crazy girl was a puppy I had those "what did I get myself into" days and I remember people telling me it would get better and I didn't always believe that, but it did. You might consider keeping a journal of his behavior, that way you can look back and really see the improvement.


Very true with the ACD mixes! My guy would do circles around the room the minute I touched him. He definitely didn't know how to be calm, that energy was just waiting under the surface and EXPLODES out!


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## MollyWoppy

He does well when I take him out of play, (thank goodness), he'll sit and look at me and then I'll let him go back. 
He's actually doing really well with the food thing when it's just him and me, but we had a bit of a regression last night.
He was playing with 4 neighbourhood dogs, just rough housing and having a great time when he found a bit of fish that an Osprey had dropped. None of us had seen it hidden in the Florida grass. But then it was all on, he was attacking the other dogs when they got close and then they started retaliating back with him. 
I got him away from the other dogs and then he went after me. It wasn't redirected at all, he knew full well it was me and he was doing his damn best to bite me as hard as he could. He was flailing and snarling like hell and got a couple of good bites in. The only thing I could do was get hold him by the back of the neck and lie him on the ground on his side as there wasn't any other way I could control him with his four feet on the ground. He was so worked up that if I had let him go he would have gone straight back after me or the other dogs. Nothing worked to calm him down, treats, telling him to sit, he was in full attack mode. I was really calm though, although a bit upset that the neighbours had to see me with blood running down my hands as I don't want them to think badly of him.
I didn't know what else to do at the time, it was pretty bad.
Later on though, eating his dinner, he was fine, no problems hand feeding, sitting, nice and calm. I can pat him all over whilst he's eating too.
Thought about it whilst lying in bed last night and I'm going to start working on 'drop it' with high value food items. I'll cook up some nice tasty smelly beef or chicken and use that as super high value treats so I can do a swop.
And, he will drag a leash full time now. And, I am stupid, I see now that I should have walked him out of sight of the other dogs into a calmer situation and calmer state of mind instead of tackling it head on right there. 
And, going to re-read everything here too, there's some really good idea's and advice that obviously needs to sink in a bit more too. Thank you.


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## lauren43

You did what you had to do at the moment. Would you say he escalated a bit when you first pinned him? I only ask because sometimes when holding them back you'll see a burst of energy...I think leashing him is going to be your best bet. Its hard (I'd say pretty much impossible) to predict everything that will happen. 

He went after you I'm assuming in an attempt to guard this fish he found correct? I know this was a freak thing and you were just trying to get control of him as fast as possible (I'm not saying you did anything wrong, I most likely would have reacted the same way, just trying to give you the dog point of view as I see it). In reacting as you did you did exactly what he feared and most likely the reason he guards, you took him away from the object he wanted (or as he saw it, you were going to take away his find). Another thing to have on hand is something super high value, perhaps even bring a chunk of raw meat with you, this way you have something to trade with him. I only say this because its the very beginning of your guarding training with him, and when something like this happens, you'll be hard pressed to get him to respond to anything, unless you have something that is even more delicious than what he has.

When I bring Avery to the neighbors I have to go around picking up all the marrow bones outside as Avery would happily break his tooth on one, but do you think I find everyone the first time, heck no!

You may want to consider getting him used to a basket muzzle, in case you need it one day.


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## MollyWoppy

Thank you Lauren. You are right, I can see now it was totally my fault, I could kick myself but I guess this is how I learn.
You made me take a step back though, instead of being a bit upset and doubting my decision to adopt him, I'm now looking at him as a scared little pup who had no way of knowing how to react other than by instinct. I have to show him that I'm here to protect him, to show him what he should be doing, not to scare or confuse him. Thanks, I needed that.


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## GoingPostal

Mine! A Practical Guide to Resource Guarding in Dogs: Jean Donaldson: 9780970562944: Amazon.com: Books

This is a fabulous little book about resource guarding. Hand feeding is good, but you really want to be also teaching him you aren't there to steal his food (trust takes time) and that if you do take his stuff it will still end well and happy. My male was a guarder when we first adopted him, I am glad I put the effort in because now that we feed raw sometimes I need to take it away or clean a stuck chunk from his teeth or whatever. I can grab my dogs and remove the item without any problem but I prefer to condition my dogs to want to offer their goodies or at least be eager and happy if I am in their face while they eat and it's pretty easy to accomplish, the other day I noticed Ripley would move away while chewing her pork bone in the yard if I got close, since she does not guard I hadn't really ever worked with her. Went inside and grabbed some chicken gizzards and got to tossing them and worked up to trading and giving back her bone for gizzards. Couple minutes of yums and her whole reaction to me around her food was changed. 

I'd also work heavily on drop it and leave its and his ability to call off from play and excitement, you need to be #1 greatest thing ever to this dog. Does he have a command he is solid on? I know when my male revs up like crazy when my b/f comes home or people come over he just bounces off walls and usually the b/f gets all mad "no!" "stop". Telling him no doesn't give him an answer of what TO do. Tell him to go lay down and he is still hyped but does it, give him a chew and he is set, he needs to know what to do in situations in order to calm himself.


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## MollyWoppy

Thank you GP. I've just bought that book. Just digesting what you said too. Appreciate your help.


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## Herzo

Pennie don't beat yourself up I would have done the same thing. However I'm not one to worry about holding them down as that's what they do to each other so how can it be so bad. It sounds like he just didn't get to stay with mother long enough to learn good behavior.

Yes it probably would have been good if you had a leash on him to be able to pull him away but you didn't so in that circumstance I think you did the right thing. He's a little pill and you are going to have a time getting a handle on him.

We had a puppy once at the shelter that was a nasty little fellow and would bully all the older dogs and I had him in with an older border collie female, he started in with her and she took the little bugger to the ground and held him there, I said not a word and let her take control over the situation as they seem to be able to do it much faster than we can. It seems a dog doesn't worry about there phycy like we humans do. I have found that an older dog doesn't usually have to hurt a puppy to make them stop. I wonder if Molly could be a big help with this? Just a thought as watching dogs at the shelter I would if I could just let them work things out for themselves.

Oh and he never did that to her again, respect I think you call it. Good luck you will get there. He just is so young I can't believe he is not trainable he just needs to go to anger management classes hahahahahhha.


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## lauren43

From what I understand Mollie is trying to correct him and he is not getting it..then she takes the brunt of the attack, actually getting injured in the process. I agree sometimes an older dog can help, if the pup is responsive.


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## Herzo

lauren43 said:


> From what I understand Mollie is trying to correct him and he is not getting it..then she takes the brunt of the attack, actually getting injured in the process. I agree sometimes an older dog can help, if the pup is responsive.


Well that's to bad, wish she would but the little bugger in his place. I know that female I had years ago was very bull headed which is why I said never again. Although Maddie is very bull headed and has been attacking at feeding time lately but luckily she will stop when I yell.

It's strange to see that in one so young. I'm confident that Pennie will get him over it.


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