# Lack of Common Sense Handling in Public



## BrownieM (Aug 30, 2010)

Flying Dog Press - Suzanne Clothier - He Just Wants To Say "Hi!"

I wanted to share this link as it sums up the frustrations that I have been having in public with my dogs lately. NO, my intact male dog does NOT want your dog to come charging at him on a flexilead. YES, he will react. NO, this is not inappropriate.

I just don't get it. Some people pay no attention to their dogs. I was at Petco the other day with Tiger. This lady had her boxer in the store on a flexi lead and was paying no attention. Tiger and I had to walk by. I put Tiger on the other side of me and held him by the collar (because he has not yet been formally trained to ignore distractions AND because I know him well enough to know that he WILL react if a dog gets in his personal bubble of space). To my horror, after we politely passed her dog and were looking at some toys about 10 feet away, her boxer comes running at Tiger. As this is happening, the lady is all "awwww my dog wants to kiss your girl!" (I'm of course mumbling under my breath..he's a BOY!). Anyway, of course her dog was not trying to kiss my dog. Her dog was invading Tiger's space. He ran up to Tiger and started SNARLING at him. Of course, Tiger got mad and snarled back. I stepped in between them and walked away. The lady was in disbelief at her dog's behavior (wonder why) and was scolding him (maybe she should have kept him close to her, then he would have been set up for success!)

Anyway, I wish the general public was more educated on how to protect their own dogs in public. I feel as though I am fortunate enough to have learned this and I do take steps to keep my dogs safe in public. Keeping your dog on a short leash if they are not trained to ignore other dogs is VERY important!


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## Unosmom (May 3, 2009)

this is also a huge pet peeve of mine. Uno has some leash reactivity issues, but we work on it every day and hes getting better. Theres a park near my house with fairly wide paved greenway, so theres no need for the other dogs to be rushing into his space. But time after time I encounter these oblivious dog owners that have dogs on a flexi that are taking up the whole road and getting into Uno's face. Even when I put my dog in a sit, make him watch me and stand between him and the other dog, the owner is still too stupid realize that I dont want his dog in our space while I'm obviously trying to block any impending reaction. One of the reasons why Uno started having reactivity issues because of these owners with little yappy dogs who lets their dogs off leash and then chase and bite my dog. Its extremely annoying plus it puts a lot of tension on our training session which in return makes Uno less likely want to keep progressing. Nowadays when I see a dog on a flexi, I end up crossing the stress because I dont want to deal with it.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

The amount of "neglect" I see at dog parks (and other social dog settings) is astounding. By neglect I mean an owners neglect to protect and support their dogs, not setting them up for success. 

I took a dog training academy this past year and we would go to dog parks to observe dog behavior as well as people. First off, VERY few people walk their dogs politely to the park. Almost every dog pulls, lunges, drags their owners to get there. Some people gave a good attempt, a LOT used force and punishment that wasn't doing diddly squat. Then of course the ultimate reward for such terrible behavior...running free, being wild and crazy at the park...WOOOHOOO!!! Only 2-3 owners asked for a sit before the unleashed their dog. Dogs have their owners trained VERY well.

Second, once dogs and owners get into the park, MOST owners get on their phones, start chatting with fellow dog-park-goers, etc. They tend to glance at their dog, searching the crowd for them...once they spot their dog...OH, there they are! Back to whatever they were doing. People for the majority don't pay that much attention to their dogs at the park, even if they're not distracted. The people who DO pay attention to their dogs are usually the ones playing fetch, but will still overlook some serious behavior issues. MOST fetch playing dogs don't like to share so that sets up a social fetch game up for bad behavior. The dog snaps at another dog approaching...the owner rewards that behavior with another throw of the ball. Teaching that dog that resource guarding is fantastic. 

We were all in disbelief at how much people allow their dogs to get freaking pummeled into the ground by other dogs....and think they are having a good time. Don't get me wrong, I know that some dogs like to play rough, but there's a huge difference between rough play that is fun, and rough play that is NOT fun. Even during fun rough play owners just let them go and go...its best to let dogs during rough play to take breaks to bring their arousal level back down. A lot of dogs that get really wound up have the potential to snap and as easy as that you've got a fight at a dog park....where every dog wants to join in! Some people did an OK job at protecting their dogs but most don't. I know that a lot of it has to do with just not knowing...but educating is key, unfortunately a lot of people get all butt hurt if you try and give them pointers no matter how polite you go about doing it. I've found that by setting an example with my dogs is the easiest way to show people how things should be done. 

A lot of people don't realize that allowing dogs to behave in this way at the BEST place on earth (the dog park) will carry over bad behavior elsewhere in life.


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## chowder (Sep 7, 2008)

That was a fascinating article. I've worked really hard with Rocky and he's gotten pretty good about not reacting on a leash but he still hates hyper crazy dogs (particularly labradors) and actually hides behind me when they start coming at him (he's my sensitive guy!) He's only growled and snapped when one started humping him before I could stop it. Now THAT's rude! 

I've just started working with Shade because he's started lunging back at the crazy dogs. It's usually the little ones who's owners are totally oblivious to the fact that their dogs are leaping around at the end of the leash like total idiots, yapping and barking and 'saying hi '. I'm not sure what Shade would do if the owners ever let the dogs get really close to us before I could stop it. We're in the training process right now and he's improving every day but at this point I think he probably would defend his space and with his looks, he would be called 'the mean, aggressive dog' . 

Maybe that article should be put in all new puppy care kits.


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## BrownieM (Aug 30, 2010)

DaneMama said:


> The amount of "neglect" I see at dog parks (and other social dog settings) is astounding. By neglect I mean an owners neglect to protect and support their dogs, not setting them up for success.
> 
> I took a dog training academy this past year and we would go to dog parks to observe dog behavior as well as people. First off, VERY few people walk their dogs politely to the park. Almost every dog pulls, lunges, drags their owners to get there. Some people gave a good attempt, a LOT used force and punishment that wasn't doing diddly squat. Then of course the ultimate reward for such terrible behavior...running free, being wild and crazy at the park...WOOOHOOO!!! Only 2-3 owners asked for a sit before the unleashed their dog. Dogs have their owners trained VERY well.


Yess!! My dogs TRY and lunge and pull when we walk to the dog park. I have seen a correlation between the dogs that do this and their rude behavior in the park, so I decided that my dogs have to earn their way into the park. As we walk to the park gates, I require loose leash walking and I ask for commands. I actually do the little exercises that I did with Millie when I was training her more formally. We'll be walking and I'll ask for a random down. GOOD GIRL. Keep walking. Sit. GOOD GIRL! Keep walking. I keep her mind working and throw out different commands so she really has to focus. She loves this game. As it goes, she gets really quick. She will usually try and anticipate which command I will give next, but then she usually realizes she can't guess right!

Then, when we enter the area where you are in between the two gates, I ask them to sit and wait at the gate to enter the park. I actually walk through the gate and into the park while they wait for my command to enter. This helps us have a more calm entry into the park and I have found it also makes their behavior better in the park.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

BrownieM said:


> Yess!! My dogs TRY and lunge and pull when we walk to the dog park. I have seen a correlation between the dogs that do this and their rude behavior in the park, so I decided that my dogs have to earn their way into the park. As we walk to the park gates, I require loose leash walking and I ask for commands. I actually do the little exercises that I did with Millie when I was training her more formally. We'll be walking and I'll ask for a random down. GOOD GIRL. Keep walking. Sit. GOOD GIRL! Keep walking. I keep her mind working and throw out different commands so she really has to focus. She loves this game. As it goes, she gets really quick. She will usually try and anticipate which command I will give next, but then she usually realizes she can't guess right!
> 
> Then, when we enter the area where you are in between the two gates, I ask them to sit and wait at the gate to enter the park. I actually walk through the gate and into the park while they wait for my command to enter. This helps us have a more calm entry into the park and I have found it also makes their behavior better in the park.


Sounds PERFECT! 

What I tell people is the 3 strikes and they're out rule. If the dog lunges, pulls, etc three times....they MUST turn around and go ALL the way back home. And for particularly bad dogs, ONE strike and they're out. For some reason, people feel like the HAVE to go to the park when they pull up...even if it means allowing their dog to be a complete ass all the way from the car. I know that a lot of people rely on dog parks for exercising their dogs...but if they control this HUGE aspect of their dog's life well, these dogs will learn VERY fast to play by the rules.


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## Huginn (Nov 21, 2011)

I work at PetSmart and I see this inappropriate "greeting" all of the time. It really drives me crazy. I mean, people make their kids ask "can I pet your dog?" Why shouldn't owners teach their dogs to "ask" permission to greet another pet? We have one customer that comes in all of the time with his intact male JRT and lets him wander around his retractable leash and do as he pleases, drives me crazy because there is nothing I can do about it. 
On a side note, I loathe those leashes in general, especially when people use them in conjunction with a pinch collar . . . just baffles me.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

this bothers me too.

what bothers me more, are the people who excuse bubba when he jumps before i can step in. he does it intermittenty....

but when he does do it, the other person whom he is jumping on, is saying....don't worry ---- he's just saying hi....oy vey. and affirms him by petting him.

that's when i'm glad he's small enough to pick up.

the frustration goes both ways. 

thanks for the article...


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

Huginn said:


> I work at PetSmart and I see this inappropriate "greeting" all of the time. It really drives me crazy. I mean, people make their kids ask "can I pet your dog?" Why shouldn't owners teach their dogs to "ask" permission to greet another pet? We have one customer that comes in all of the time with his intact male JRT and lets him wander around his retractable leash and do as he pleases, drives me crazy because there is nothing I can do about it.
> On a side note, I loathe those leashes in general, especially when people use them in conjunction with a pinch collar . . . just baffles me.


And if you are talking about the same guy I think you are...he let's that freaking dog also pee at B's shop!! He is VERY rude about EVERYTHING!!
Oh...but on a side note..Amaya was sooo cute on Saturday, she comes up to me, with Rhett goes "ohhhhh....can I pet 'ett Abi?? But what about Brody?"(who wasn't there!Lol)



magicre said:


> this bothers me too.
> 
> what bothers me more, are the people who excuse bubba when he jumps before i can step in. he does it intermittenty....
> 
> ...


Omg...that is like one of my biggest things!! 
People do that with my parents Frenchies and with Brody, I'm always like NO IT ISN NOT OK!!!

That and the idiot who was baffled that I made 12 week old Rhett sit before getting petted at the pet expo last spring!Lol


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

Re- 
You beat me to it. 
I can't STAND it when other people excuse certain behaviors from my dogs. We don't have company over often AT ALL (think 5 times a year. maybe) and when we do, the pack can be a little excited, so we bring them in one at a time and try to keep the energy calm. 
Except when Jon's mom comes. She is right there, riling them all up, encouraging Annie AND the Danes to jump on her. We've had arguments over it. "Oh, I don't mind, we're having fun!" 
Yes, but I mind, it's NOT ok.


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## BrownieM (Aug 30, 2010)

Ugh. My fiance does this. Drives me nuts! I blame him for their bad habits. LOL


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## Huginn (Nov 21, 2011)

Scarlett_O' said:


> And if you are talking about the same guy I think you are...he let's that freaking dog also pee at B's shop!! He is VERY rude about EVERYTHING!!
> Oh...but on a side note..Amaya was sooo cute on Saturday, she comes up to me, with Rhett goes "ohhhhh....can I pet 'ett Abi?? But what about Brody?"(who wasn't there!Lol)
> 
> 
> ...


Awww, my little niece is such a good kid. And yes, you know exactly who I am talking about. At least, he doesn't bite the cashiers anymore. . . he worked on that when Julie banned him for a few weeks, until we found out it was against policy to not allow a known biter in the store. . . anyway. 

I get jumped on all of the time at work, I really only say "its ok" when people start apologizing and only because, well I am not mad. I usually say "it's ok, I'm not bothered. Let's try again." and I will back up ignoring the dog, so that the dogs feet hit the ground, and will wait until they are calm to re approach them. Works pretty well I think, without encouraging the jumping or making the owners feel bad.


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

Good gracious, try going out with "Lassie". If it isn't the flexi leash debacle then my poor boys especially get mauled by other peoples kids and their dogs because they just get way too close. I am eternally thankful the boys are sweet but goodness control your pups and kidlets. The little "lassie" (Sheltie) is just as bad and she does not liek other dogs in her face and will show teeth and grumble. They think she is so cute but I amnot so amused and it doesn't help when people are foolish about letting their dogs so close. It's no wonder there is so much anti dog regulation - it's not the dogs it's the people who own them.


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## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

Ugh. I have one rude dog and one dog who hates rude dogs. They get along with each other but out in public??? Buck is actually only rude when on a leash. At the park, he is VERY considerate of everyone's space. I want to take him to a PetsMart training class for extra socialization but I don't like the way they train. I am in the process of finding somewhere else. Once he meets a dog, though, he will stand quietly. He has typical hound deafness and completely shuts me out sometimes. That is the major issue we have been focusing on lately.

The flexi leashes are a big pet peeve of mine as well. How, other than making sure your dog can't actually run away from you, can youcontrol a dog on a leash like that? It doesn't make sense!


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

Dude and Bucks Mamma said:


> Ugh. I have one rude dog and one dog who hates rude dogs. They get along with each other but out in public??? Buck is actually only rude when on a leash. At the park, he is VERY considerate of everyone's space. I want to take him to a PetsMart training class for extra socialization but I don't like the way they train. I am in the process of finding somewhere else. Once he meets a dog, though, he will stand quietly. He has typical hound deafness and completely shuts me out sometimes. That is the major issue we have been focusing on lately.
> 
> The flexi leashes are a big pet peeve of mine as well. How, other than making sure your dog can't actually run away from you, can youcontrol a dog on a leash like that? It doesn't make sense!


HAHA, and when your rude dog, your dog who hates rude dogs and my baby boy are all together your dog who hates rue dogs looks at you like "Mom...can we take THIS ONE home, and leave the one we came with?!?!" LOL :tongue:


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## hmbutler (Aug 4, 2011)

This thread has been very informative, and makes me realise how much more work I really need to do with Duke. I admit I'm lazy, and we've got some basics down, but I need to do a lot more, definitely. We don't actually have a dog park where I live, but a place I'm going to in Perth this weekend has one so I'm gonna wander on by and have a look. I'll bet I see much of what Natalie explained in her first post!

Duke is a pretty rude dog, when I really think about it. But I've been practising NILIF lately, and that has helped a lot. He has learned he wont get pats by shoving his face and body into us, but needs to either sit or be invited to cuddle (he still tries the "shove and climb" occasionally lol but he is miles better than he was a few months ago). I probably also need to talk to my brother about it, who has just moved in with us, and make sure he doesn't undo any of this work. I made the rookie mistake of thinking things were ok when he was a cute little puppy, forgetting the fact that these things will NOT be ok when he is a 70lb brick wall of muscle lol. I've been telling my friend, who just got a 6 week old (yes, SIX weeks, don't get me started) mastiff cross, that she can't let him get away with little biting or jumping up things when he is this size, because when he is a huge dog, it'll be really hard to stop him doing all the things she thought were cute when he was little. Hopefully she listens (though she didn't listen about the raw feeding, and has him on very crap kibble, so who knows)


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## NewYorkDogue (Sep 27, 2011)

Oh my goodness. I could write volumes on dog park behavior stuff, since we spend a lot of time in different ones around the city.

But, mostly, DaneMama was right on about the people "checking out" as soon as they slip through the gates: they are immediately on their cell phones/ipads other such devices while their little poochie is chewing up some hapless dog at the other end of the park...
I see it all the time.

Also, it is so important to be able to not only be "present" and aware, but also to _know your dog_-- i.e. how to read their signals. For example, Mateo likes to wrestle and can sometimes handle a dog that is a bit rough.. but only for so long. Just the other day, a man came into the local dog park with 2 untrained pit bull dogs. We've seen him before and he is a bit of an odd duck--- and his dogs are just wild, and do not listen to him. Anyway, one of them started in on Mateo jumping in his face trying to get him to play, and Mateo kind of went along, and things were going ok, until the other dog's intensity increased, casing him to bite my dog more strongly while wrestling, and not letting go. I could see where this was going, and that Mateo was beginning to show signs of stress (i.e. reacting more defensively, not in play mode so much.) 

At this point, the guy's other pit decided it would be a good idea to join in- now, it was the "2 against 1" thing that happens so often in groups of dogs. Mateo started to whip around between the two dogs trying keep them away, while I and another friend stepped in and had to pull the other dogs off, and Mateo away from them. And the owner of the 2 dogs just stood their and _giggled._ WTF?

Again-- it's not the dogs, it's more often the owners...

On the training issue- I am working with my pup also, in modifying his excitement as we head to the most awesome place in NYC:
Central Park during off-leash hours. We're talking about over 600 acres of beautiful park to roam, and so many dogs to play with.
Anyway, his pulling increases as we get closer and I need to nip this in the bud, like now. A dog trainer friend of mine told me to use "high-value" treats to focus his attention on me only as we approach the park. So far this has worked beautifully, if I am consistent with working with him in this way. He will walk at heel, with his attention on me - all the way up to the entrance to the park, as long as I have fresh meat as a reward. I also have him sit and stay while I remove his leash and then tell him, "Okay-Free!." Actually, I want to increase the time he sits before I give him the okay command. 

It's a work in progress...


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## cprcheetah (Jul 14, 2010)

One of my biggest pet peeves. Shellie is so reactive (not in an aggressive way) just gets so happy/hyper/wiggle butt to see another dog, and when people just let their dogs come right up to her, it's so hard to get her back to a 'settle' calm position after she gets rushed by a dog. I wish people would ask for permission for their dog to smell other dogs etc. I try to make her earn things, like she has to sit and can't 'freak' if people want to pet her, if she wiggles/freaks at all, no pets. It helps to keep her focused. I try so hard NOT to let her be the 'rude' one as it drives me crazy.


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## BoxerParty (Nov 9, 2011)

I'll preface this by saying that I'm sure if any of you saw my dogs this morning, you'd think I was one of "those people". Lila was spayed on Thursday, so she has been cooped up and is WILD. It's like trying to walk a sea monster on a leash. Of course, her crazy energy infects Malcolm, and so the two of them looked like the MOST ill-mannered goons in the universe. 

However, I do work a lot with my dogs on having appropriate manners in all places, including the dog park. Both have completed puppy kindergarten and the second level of obedience training. I work frequently with them on not dragging me toward high-value locations (park, daycare, etc.), and they must sit and wait before being allowed free in the park, or allowed through the door into the daycare. It's still a work in progress with both dogs, but I do my best and try to be consistent about not allowing them to do anything I can't live with long-term.

I get SO frustrated with people whose dogs are rude/inappropriate in the dog park, and especially people who bring aggressive dogs to the off leash area. What are they thinking? Both of my dogs are highly social, and have been around dogs of all sizes and ages since they came home at 8 weeks old. But both have been targeted by aggressive dogs in the park, and in Lila's case by a dog she wasn't even interacting with. In every case, the owners have laughed it off as "rough play" or haven't even noticed because they are texting/talking on the phone/chatting with other dog owners. I now take my dogs to the park one at a time so I can supervise them more closely, or I take them together and keep them in a low-traffic area so they play only with each other.

I must say, though, the thing that drives me CRAZIEST is when people reward my dog for jumping up. Lila is still learning to greet people politely. She is very excitable and very affectionate, and loves to try to leap up on people to kiss their faces. Unfortunately, she's also far less biddable than Malcolm, so discouraging that behaviour has been slow. So when people say "Oh, it's OK, I love dogs!" and then pet her, I want to hit them. :twitch:


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## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

People reward Tess so bad with the jumping thing.. she barely weighs 10lb so it's not like she will knock anyone over, so no one cares, and lots of people pick her up when she does it (she LOVES to be held like a baby on her back by strangers...)

At the same time though she is very timid and a lot of dogs are very rude to her because of that.. and no one calls their dog off, and I've been called snarky names when I'VE pulled their dog off. Once she knows a dog well, she is very in-your-face.


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## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

Oh Liz- I get the "awww it's LASSIE!" thing too with Bishop.. Of course he's friendly, he is just a small version of a famous dog on TV!

.. Well he IS very friendly, he just gets overly excited, too!


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

NewYorkDogue said:


> Also, it is so important to be able to not only be "present" and aware, but also to _know your dog_-- i.e. how to read their signals. For example, Mateo likes to wrestle and can sometimes handle a dog that is a bit rough.. but only for so long. Just the other day, a man came into the local dog park with 2 untrained pit bull dogs. We've seen him before and he is a bit of an odd duck--- and his dogs are just wild, and do not listen to him. Anyway, one of them started in on Mateo jumping in his face trying to get him to play, and Mateo kind of went along, and things were going ok, until the other dog's intensity increased, casing him to bite my dog more strongly while wrestling, and not letting go. I could see where this was going, and that Mateo was beginning to show signs of stress (i.e. reacting more defensively, not in play mode so much.)
> 
> At this point, the guy's other pit decided it would be a good idea to join in- now, it was the "2 against 1" thing that happens so often in groups of dogs. Mateo started to whip around between the two dogs trying keep them away, while I and another friend stepped in and had to pull the other dogs off, and Mateo away from them. And the owner of the 2 dogs just stood their and _giggled._ WTF?


The next time you're at the dog park, break up play WAY BEFORE it gets to the point of being over the top. Break it up, bring Mateo to the side and ask for a sit, touch, watch me, etc with REALLY yummy, high quality treats. Just for a couple minutes at most and then let him go and play again. Doing this will teach him to take natural breaks from play that are healthy.


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## Huginn (Nov 21, 2011)

Liz said:


> Good gracious, try going out with "Lassie". If it isn't the flexi leash debacle then my poor boys especially get mauled by other peoples kids and their dogs because they just get way too close. I am eternally thankful the boys are sweet but goodness control your pups and kidlets. The little "lassie" (Sheltie) is just as bad and she does not liek other dogs in her face and will show teeth and grumble. They think she is so cute but I amnot so amused and it doesn't help when people are foolish about letting their dogs so close. It's no wonder there is so much anti dog regulation - it's not the dogs it's the people who own them.


I used to get that all of the time with my sheltie male. He was a very good boy, but you never know when one more kid might be too much.


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## hmbutler (Aug 4, 2011)

Caty M said:


> no one calls their dog off, and I've been called snarky names when I'VE pulled their dog off. Once she knows a dog well, she is very in-your-face.


Ugh this drives me insane too - I think Duke must either smell amazing or give off a "gay vibe" haha because just about every male dog he meets wants to hump him. Most people will call their dog off, but for some reason at puppy school, almost everyone is content to say "Oh [name], come on now..." and just let them go... I end up pulling their dog off Duke's back, because _I_ don't like it (admittedly, Duke doesn't seem too worried, he never snaps at the dogs, he always just keeps on walking/playing with a dog mounting him from behind lol)

But I feel like I'm in the wrong for touching their dog to get them off my dog, because they dont do anything about it. It's really annoying


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## DoglovingSenior (Jun 26, 2011)

I absolutely HATE flexi's. Testing and licensing ought to be required before some people are allowed to purchase them! #^&@!!!


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## NewYorkDogue (Sep 27, 2011)

DaneMama said:


> The next time you're at the dog park, break up play WAY BEFORE it gets to the point of being over the top. Break it up, bring Mateo to the side and ask for a sit, touch, watch me, etc with REALLY yummy, high quality treats. Just for a couple minutes at most and then let him go and play again. Doing this will teach him to take natural breaks from play that are healthy.


That's a good idea. Usually, he/the other dog will sometimes pull away from each other themselves- sometimes not. The thing is, this odd man with the 2 dogs always gives me the creeps and I will usually leave or divert Mateo's attention to another activity or dog if he shows up. I know my dog is not a fan of his little pack and will not, on his own, engage in play with them (but will sometimes engage them if they persist.)

There is another dog he plays with a lot: a Giant Schnauzer who is about one month older than he is. And she is rough! But, the difference is the owner-- he keeps an eagle eye on her while they play and will pull them apart if she gets too intense, sometimes diverting her attention with a ball to fetch before allowing them to play again. And sometimes the dogs themselves will just lie down next to each other, sort of regulating themselves (this is happening more often...) before resuming play again. I believe this is what you are referring to as "natural breaks from play" (?) Mateo really likes this GS, and is not stressed during play. But, again, if things get too rough he or I will step in.

His favorite style of play seems to be physical, but not "bitey"--- more easy-going. Fortunately there are quite a few dogs that match his own style, and it's a stress-free day at the park when that happens.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Yes it sounds like he's already taking break from play. But the trick is I break up play BEFORE it gets too intense. It's good that the schnauzer owner breaks it up WHEN it's too intense...but he or you should stop it before that point. The more and more play is allowed to go to the point of being intense, the more he will learn how to bring it to that level of intensity. Instead you want him to learn to take healthy and natural breaks from play while the arousal level is still at a good place. Keeping him at a good level of arousal will keep him more mentally level in social situations. 

There are plenty of dogs (like the Pitt bulls you're talking about) who don't know how to take breaks, and therefore just go and go and go until a fight breaks out. This is an easily learned behavior that leads directly to aggression issues. Breaking up play sessions calmly and naturally will help prevent this kind of behavior from becoming habit.


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## chowder (Sep 7, 2008)

DaneMama said:


> Yes it sounds like he's already taking break from play. But the trick is I break up play BEFORE it gets too intense. It's good that the schnauzer owner breaks it up WHEN it's too intense...but he or you should stop it before that point. The more and more play is allowed to go to the point of being intense, the more he will learn how to bring it to that level of intensity. Instead you want him to learn to take healthy and natural breaks from play while the arousal level is still at a good place. Keeping him at a good level of arousal will keep him more mentally level in social situations.
> 
> There are plenty of dogs (like the Pitt bulls you're talking about) who don't know how to take breaks, and therefore just go and go and go until a fight breaks out. This is an easily learned behavior that leads directly to aggression issues. Breaking up play sessions calmly and naturally will help prevent this kind of behavior from becoming habit.


This is good to know. I think this is what I have to do with Shade. He literally bowls Rocky over when he plays, and growls and makes all kinds of noise. Lately he's been flying at Rocky so fast that he comes off all 4 feet when he hits him and totally flattens Rocky. We'll have chow fluff all over the back yard. 

I'll make Shade take 'break's' when he starts playing this rough because I know that Rocky does not like it. Shade can learn to play at a calmer level before Rocky starts to bite him back.


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## NewYorkDogue (Sep 27, 2011)

DaneMama said:


> Yes it sounds like he's already taking break from play. But the trick is I break up play BEFORE it gets too intense. It's good that the schnauzer owner breaks it up WHEN it's too intense...but he or you should stop it before that point. The more and more play is allowed to go to the point of being intense, the more he will learn how to bring it to that level of intensity. Instead you want him to learn to take healthy and natural breaks from play while the arousal level is still at a good place. Keeping him at a good level of arousal will keep him more mentally level in social situations.
> 
> There are plenty of dogs (like the Pitt bulls you're talking about) who don't know how to take breaks, and therefore just go and go and go until a fight breaks out. This is an easily learned behavior that leads directly to aggression issues. Breaking up play sessions calmly and naturally will help prevent this kind of behavior from becoming habit.


Ahhh..okay. I get what you are saying. So, by allowing the play intensity level to reach a certain point, the dog will actually _learn_ to accept this as a normal part of play. Not what I really want to see happening. Especially since Mateo is really an easy-going kind of dog; he gets along with all types of dogs (and people), and becomes a bit stressed if one comes at with too much intensity or aggression. He doesn't want to "go there", but will if need be (and it takes a lot, since he has a rather high stress threshold.)

Best to not allow it to get to that level in the first place... I do not want him to learn that he has to engage with others dogs with this intensity (which leads to stress, and then aggressive outcomes.)

Thanks. I will be more proactive about this issue.


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