# One step forward...two steps back...



## ciaBrysh (Dec 16, 2011)

Well...things have been going extremely well with the chang over to raw. Raj has been taking it like a champ, which I am sort of surprised since he has such a sensitive stomach....well..I began adding boneless chicken this week. Started on Monday adding chicken gizzards as the am meal with a bone in and then pm another bone in meal. 
I did that until Wed and Thursday I cut boneless chicken breast into small pieces as the am meal and then the pm meal was a bone in meal (the bone in was always the bigger meal)

Welp...today...5 days later Raj has some looseness in his stools. It was really depressing being he has been doing so well and I was going to throw in a sliver of chicken liver into his meal tomorrow =/

Oh well...

Okay rant over!! =)


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## luvMyBRT (Mar 8, 2010)

No worries!! Just add a bit more bone back in. Problem solved.

Don't rush. It could set you back if you do. I waited until I was a full 2 months in before adding any organ.  Just remember: the slower you go, the faster you'll get there! 

Looks like your doing great! :becky:


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## ciaBrysh (Dec 16, 2011)

Thanks!

I also am thinking that since he had 5 boneless meals 5 days in a row that could have been wayyyy too much lol I think what I will be doing is a little boneless every other day with some more bone in. I knew he was going to need a bit more bone than "normal" dogs lol 

I think I will still do the sliver of chicken liver tomorrow and just leave it at that, since Willow seems to be doing well I will keep moving her forward but a bit slower so they are somewhat close in pace


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

if her stools are soft, adding in liver won't help.....

maybe give her some bony meals for a day or two and then add in that sliver of liver.

i know that gizzards are richer muscle than boneless breast or thigh for instance....

if your dog is sensitive, adding things in finger nail size pieces might be the way to go.


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## swolek (Mar 31, 2011)

How loose? A little soft isn't a big deal, it happens sometimes. I'm not too worried unless it's watery. Feed a boney meal and he'll be fine .


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## ciaBrysh (Dec 16, 2011)

magicre said:


> if her stools are soft, adding in liver won't help.....
> 
> maybe give her some bony meals for a day or two and then add in that sliver of liver.
> 
> ...


Oddly enough...he did better on the gizzards then he did with the boneless breast.


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## ciaBrysh (Dec 16, 2011)

swolek said:


> How loose? A little soft isn't a big deal, it happens sometimes. I'm not too worried unless it's watery. Feed a boney meal and he'll be fine .


He was loose enough where it surprised me lol Not watery though, which I was glad for. I just find it odd that he did this five days into the boneless being on its own meal...


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Welp. Adding in that liver tomorrow will probably turn that loose stool into watery diarrhea. Put it back in the freezer and don't pull it back out for another month or so...at the very least. You want to get through the transition of more proteins, especially the rich ones before you take organs head on. 

He should be doing 100% fine with WHOLE meals of boneless chicken before even moving on to turkey. 

Don't rush things, slow and steady wins the race.


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## ciaBrysh (Dec 16, 2011)

Okay. liver refrozen, I have two bone in meal days to firm back up his stool now made (those were the meals that already had the liver I took out.) 
So would you suggest I take boneless chicken and use them as whole meals alternating with bone in once firm?

Okay, so I will do boneless chicken in the am, chicken quarters at night boneless in the am turkey at night etc until his stools are firm then I will add boneless...I guess pork since boneless turkey is freakin expensive here... >.<


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## barneysmom2510 (Oct 12, 2011)

This happened with Barney in the beginning chicken backs would solve it. I waited close to three months before adding organs. I waited until I got through chicken, turkey, pork I still just give a little bit.


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## ciaBrysh (Dec 16, 2011)

Okay, I guess I'm just worried about waiting for so long before starting organs >.<


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

ciaBrysh said:


> Okay, I guess I'm just worried about waiting for so long before starting organs >.<


I always HIGHLY suggest to people NOT adding in organs for at LEAST 2 months....3 if I can get them to wait that long!:thumb:

What everyone else has said is exactly what I would suggest...hold off on the liver till they are perfectly fine on at least 3 proteins...and if at all possible wait till they can eat at least one boneless meal!


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

hard to remember now....it's not something i like to remember for real...

but once they were really there, it was like overnight....and it probably took almost a year to intro everything....i think, what i did, was give finger nail sized pieces of chicken or beef liver and did not increase..until about ten months in.


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## eternalstudent (Jul 22, 2010)

Slow is the key as everyone has said.

One loose stool can be down to so many different things that after a while it will hardly bother you. 

after nearly 2 years on raw Becka will have a loose one or two but you just kind of shrug readjust and move on


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## ciaBrysh (Dec 16, 2011)

I'm beginning to see a pattern here with Raj... the past four days of boneless...his stools have been AWESOME. I couldn't be happier and was expecting to be able to move on to the next boneless protein...
Well...day five (just like last time) Raj has a mini blowout. 
Is it at all possible it is because I am doing 5 boneless meals in a row? Maybe I could try doing boneless every other day and see how that works out for him instead? Maybe he is just one of those dogs? 
I'm using small pieces of chicken so it's not like I'm giving him a lot...
=/ I don't really know what to do here...


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

ciaBrysh said:


> I'm beginning to see a pattern here with Raj... the past four days of boneless...his stools have been AWESOME. I couldn't be happier and was expecting to be able to move on to the next boneless protein...
> Well...day five (just like last time) Raj has a mini blowout.
> Is it at all possible it is because I am doing 5 boneless meals in a row? Maybe I could try doing boneless every other day and see how that works out for him instead? Maybe he is just one of those dogs?
> I'm using small pieces of chicken so it's not like I'm giving him a lot...
> =/ I don't really know what to do here...


yes. you are doing too many days of boneless.  i'm surprised that he goes for that long 

since he does go boneless for four days, maybe every three days, you could feed a bony meal, an edible bony meal. he's a nice sized dog.....10% of what he is fed should be bone and that's just a guideline.


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## ciaBrysh (Dec 16, 2011)

LOL Thank you >.< I was trying to get him adjusted to the boneless protein though so is it still okay for him to go the 4 days solid...?
Oh and just a ps 
His poop was like a rock today...I am at such a loss lol


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

you don't need rocks....so if firm is what you have after four days, then make sure you give bone the fourth day.

yay.


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## ciaBrysh (Dec 16, 2011)

Wait...I just want to make sure I said this correctly because I don't think I was clear...this has been Raj's schedule for the past week...he gets boneless in the am and bone in for him pm meal

Monday-Pork rib am pm turkey neck with an egg
Tuesday- Boneless chicken in the am pm turkey neck
Wednesday- boneless am pm chicken quarter
thursday- boneless chicken pm pork rib 
friday - boneless chicken in the am pm chicken quarter with an egg His loose stool happened this day

He's still getting a lot of boneless, but I have a feeling he just can't handle that much boneless in a row...


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## Herzo (Feb 5, 2011)

Probably the egg than did it. Other than that it looks good.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

ciaBrysh said:


> Wait...I just want to make sure I said this correctly because I don't think I was clear...this has been Raj's schedule for the past week...he gets boneless in the am and bone in for him pm meal
> 
> Monday-*Pork rib* am pm turkey neck with an egg
> Tuesday- Boneless chicken in the am pm *turkey neck*
> ...


 i think maybe the egg threw him over the edge because you fed too much. but he is getting bone every day.

now i'm confused.


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## ciaBrysh (Dec 16, 2011)

magicre said:


> i think maybe the egg threw him over the edge because you fed too much. but he is getting bone every day.
> 
> now i'm confused.


lol I'm sorry! 
I'm confused too...Maybe I will just give him one egg a week? Or next week...I will continue doing boneless chicken and take the eggs out of the equation and see how he is doing then.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

are his poos hard or just firm?

if they are rock solid hard, then maybe too much bone.....

once a week eggs in the beginning are good...let them build up tolerances and adjustment....that's the ticket....

they're going to be on this diet for life....g'd willing....so you have lots of time.


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## ciaBrysh (Dec 16, 2011)

magicre said:


> are his poos hard or just firm?
> 
> if they are rock solid hard, then maybe too much bone.....
> 
> ...


I would say his stools are more firm than rock solid...just comparing them to yesterdays they were like rocks lol
Also, when I was feeding him kibble he would get one egg a week...which is why I figured two a week wouldn't be so bad for him now...I guess not, which is okay.
I think this will all work out for him...once I figure out what his issue is...which may take some time lol


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

ciaBrysh said:


> I would say his stools are more firm than rock solid...just comparing them to yesterdays they were like rocks lol
> Also, when I was feeding him kibble he would get one egg a week...which is why I figured two a week wouldn't be so bad for him now...I guess not, which is okay.
> I think this will all work out for him...once I figure out what his issue is...which may take some time lol


kibble and raw. two different universes.....

you just started, what, in december..... and look how well you're progressing...one egg a week is fine...especially since eggs are rich.

the same advice applies to any richy rich muscle meat, i.e. heart....

and then when you finally get to the red meats and organs.....slowly...whether they do well or not.....it's better for them...

supps come after that. 

you're doing fine....


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## Amy18 (May 17, 2011)

I agree with Magicre the egg probably did him in. I got some eggs fresh from the farm last week and was so excited i added them to the rotation immediately. Like you i fed one egg and all was good, 2 days later i fed another, the next day cannon butt. I've been feeding raw for 7 months so it happens to all of us. Slow and steady~


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## Imgliniel (Sep 1, 2011)

Well you basically already have him intro'd to pork and turkey it seems like, so personally here is what I would do, and 
STAY with this for a couple weeks, like 2 at least until he is nice and consistant, then move on. this is days 1-7 of a week, I am not determining proteins for you, I'll leave that up to you. Basically it makes the day you give an egg and the day after all bone in days, and the other days a boneless on the am and bone in the pm day.

1) small bone heavy item (like a back) with an egg am - bone in meal pm
2) bone in am - bone in pm
3) boneless am - bone in pm
4) boneless am - bone in pm
5) small bone heavy item (like a back) with an egg am - bone in meal pm
6) bone in am - bone in pm
7) boneless am - bone in pm

Once he is consistant with this routine what I would do is take out one egg a week and replace that egg with some TINY amounts of organ meat, still fed with a bone heavy item and followed by a day of all bone in meals. Does this make sense?


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

Is there any way you can do just one feeding??

I find it WAY easier to cut back on bone when just feeding once a day!:thumb:

This is how my week looks(in different amounts per the dogs as I feed 1: 6oz, 1: 10oz, 1: 16oz and 2: 24oz)

1) small bone heavy item (like part of back/neck/etc), if needed, per the dog, with boneless red meat(heart, other boneless cut)
2) Bone in piece(part of a chicken with more meat then a neck/back, etc)....with boneless for the dogs that can handle it and if needed for weight
3) 1/4-1/2 heavy bone in(back/neck/etc) 1/2 organ(or rich boneless, could be egg, per that week's/dog's need)
4) Bone in piece(part of a chicken with more meat then a neck/back, etc)....with boneless for the dogs that can handle it and if needed for weight
5) small bone heavy item (like part of back/neck/etc), if needed, per the dog, with boneless red meat(heart, other boneless cut)
6) 1/4-1/2 heavy bone in(back/neck/etc) 1/2 organ(or rich boneless, could be egg, per that week's/dog's need)
7) small bone heavy item (like part of back/neck/etc), if needed, per the dog, with boneless red meat(heart, other boneless cut)

That is my goal when feeding per week....I figure the organ percentage out every 2-3 weeks(depending on what I have available) and then figure out in my head what I am feeding!


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## ciaBrysh (Dec 16, 2011)

magicre said:


> kibble and raw. two different universes.....
> 
> you just started, what, in december..... and look how well you're progressing...one egg a week is fine...especially since eggs are rich.
> 
> ...


I know I probably am rushing big time lol 
I already give supplements though...can those also effect his stools? Raj gets 2 fish oil pills daily and vit e 3 times a week.. 



Imgliniel said:


> Well you basically already have him intro'd to pork and turkey it seems like, so personally here is what I would do, and
> STAY with this for a couple weeks, like 2 at least until he is nice and consistant, then move on. this is days 1-7 of a week, I am not determining proteins for you, I'll leave that up to you. Basically it makes the day you give an egg and the day after all bone in days, and the other days a boneless on the am and bone in the pm day.
> 
> 1) small bone heavy item (like a back) with an egg am - bone in meal pm
> ...


Yes it makes sense and I may try that schedule for a week with using just boneless chicken as my boneless source for now.



Scarlett_O' said:


> Is there any way you can do just one feeding??
> 
> I find it WAY easier to cut back on bone when just feeding once a day!:thumb:
> 
> ...


I could feed once a day, and honestly that would probably make my life a bit easier lol


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

ciaBrysh said:


> I know I probably am rushing big time lol
> I already give supplements though...can those also effect his stools? Raj gets 2 fish oil pills daily and vit e 3 times a week..
> 
> 
> ...


if stools are okay, then the supps are fine. it had to be the egg given in too few days. eggs are very rich.


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## Imgliniel (Sep 1, 2011)

Monday-Pork rib am pm turkey neck with an egg
Tuesday- Boneless chicken in the am pm turkey neck
Wednesday- boneless am pm chicken quarter
thursday- boneless chicken pm pork rib
friday - boneless chicken in the am pm chicken quarter with an egg His loose stool happened this day

So if this was the schedule that week I just noticed something. The first day he got an egg he got two bone in meals. The next time you gave an egg you gave half boneless and half bone in for the day. So I don't think it was just the egg, I think it was the combo of egg and a boneless meal that day that was a bit much.


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## ciaBrysh (Dec 16, 2011)

magicre said:


> if stools are okay, then the supps are fine. it had to be the egg given in too few days. eggs are very rich.


Thank you for easing my mind. I'm going to skip the second egg and hope for the best!


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