# Trying to find the right food for out lab pup



## JamesO (Apr 22, 2011)

Hi all

We brought home a lab pup a few weeks ago and love him like crazy! We want to find him the best food possible and are SO happy to have found this forum. My wife and I follow a grain free lifestyle ourselves, so selling us on the idea of grain free food wasn't exactly hard. You only need to watch Food Inc. once to know we weren't made to live on corn, and neither were our animals. 

But after spending a week weaning him from Pro Plan to Blue Buffalo, his stools went from being soft and poorly formed to outright projectile diarrhea. 

He's doing OK on a blend of Wellness Super 5 Mix Puppy and Pro Plan Puppy right now, but we'd still like to make sure he's on the best food. 

We don't have Orijen or Innova locally, but we do have Taste of the Wild. It looks like it's pretty high on protein. How does Taste of the Wild compare to the Super 5 we have him starting on now? 

Why do you think the Blue Buffalo gave him such soft stools?


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

I think Blue Buffalo is very rich. My dachshund never did well on a grain-free dog food, but she is older so I don't know how that translates to a puppy.

Have you seen the dog food analysis site? They like Super 5:
Dog Food Reviews - Wellness Super5mix Large breed puppy - Powered by ReviewPost

Not so much Pro Plan:
Dog Food Reviews - Nature's Plan Large Breed Puppy - Powered by ReviewPost


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## Tobi (Mar 18, 2011)

some dogs have a hard time changing over, My dog had a rough time from blue buffalo chick/brn rice to lamb/oatmeal... diarrhea vomiting etc, then i just ditched the kibble after that all together. We did a 2 week transition too, and he was just horrible the entire time. 

I've not tried either of the foods in question, but they are going to be more protein rich foods which can cause some upset. I hope you get it ironed out and get you puppy on a good food for him


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## chowder (Sep 7, 2008)

We raised Rocky on Orijen Large Breed Puppy. We had to get it online and have it delivered, but he ate so much less of it that it really didn't end up being that much more expensive. I always waited for a coupon discount code before I bought it. I've also used Evo and Taste of the Wild with him and he did well on both. He REALLY liked the taste of the Taste of the Wild, I just preferred him to have Orijen. I would probably recommend any of those over Wellness. The Wellness has a lot of grains in it so you are paying for a mostly grain kibble vs a grain free kibble. 

Wellness SuperMix puppy ingredients: 

Deboned Chicken, Chicken Meal, Oatmeal, Ground Barley, Salmon Meal (a source of DHA - Docosahexaenoic Acid), Ground Brown Rice, Canola Oil (preserved with mixed tocopherols, a natural source of Vitamin E), Tomato Pomace, Rice Bran, Tomatoes, Natural Chicken Flavor, Rye Flour, Carrots, Spinach, Sweet Potatoes, Apples, Blueberries, Ground Millet, Ground Flaxseed, Potassium Chloride, Vitamins [Beta-Carotene, Vitamin E Supplement, Ascorbic Acid (Vitamin C), Vitamin A Supplement, Niacin, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin, Vitamin D-3 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Thiamine Mononitrate, Folic Acid, Biotin, Vitamin B-12 Supplement], Minerals [Zinc Sulfate, Zinc Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Ferrous Sulfate, Copper Proteinate, Copper Sulfate, Manganese Proteinate, Manganese Sulfate, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite], Choline Chloride, Mixed Tocopherols (a natural preservative), Taurine, Chicory Root Extract, Garlic Powder, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Green Tea Extract, Dried Lactobacillus plantarum, Enterococcus faecium, Lactobacillus casei, Lactobacillus acidophilus fermentation products, Rosemary Extract.


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## 3Musketeers (Nov 4, 2010)

You can try stretching out the transition to 2 weeks, a one week transition is a bit short and perhaps his system isn't fully adjusted yet, as he is used to the Pro Plan.
It's great that you're switching to Wellness and/or Blue Buffalo, both are great foods. 
The Pro-Plan on the other hand, ehh, better off leaving it out for some strays :biggrin:. The ingredients in that stuff, you don't want to know them...

Taste of the Wild is good, don't worry about the protein levels, the higher protein generally means the food has more meat. More meat = good, dogs are carnivores.
Focus on the calcium/phosphorus if you think he's going to qualify as a large-breed pup. They should be under 1.5% I believe. Otherwise stick with the Blue or Wellness until he's older.


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## JamesO (Apr 22, 2011)

Thanks for the replies, all! 



3Musketeers said:


> Taste of the Wild is good, don't worry about the protein levels, the higher protein generally means the food has more meat. More meat = good, dogs are carnivores.


I was also kind of equating higher protein with richness, worrying that a higher protein food would upset his stomach. It sounds like I might be wrong?



3Musketeers said:


> Focus on the calcium/phosphorus if you think he's going to qualify as a large-breed pup. They should be under 1.5% I believe. Otherwise stick with the Blue or Wellness until he's older.


Can you elaborate a bit more on this? He's definitely big. He's about 23 lbs. right now at 11 weeks. What would higher phosphorus and calcium do?


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## JamesO (Apr 22, 2011)

The vet also recommended Science Diet, but Dog Food Advisor ranks it at two stars. High corn content and lots of animal by-products that they said were things like chicken feet. Blech! HOWEVER, they said it was easy for them to adjust if he developed allergies, etc. 

I'm skeptical, but just because it was his vet, I wanted to see what you all thought.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Science Diet - horrible, horrible food. It seems way more likely your dog would develop allergies to the things in Science Diet.


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## 3Musketeers (Nov 4, 2010)

Yup Science Diet is among the worst of the worst. It's what a lot of vets get taught in vet-school, so they may not even bother actually looking at and questioning the food before recommending it.
The higher levels of calc/phos may cause growth pains and some bone "diseases" (don't know to well about them, just what causes them). I'm sure those here with large-breed dogs can help.


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## JamesO (Apr 22, 2011)

Hi everyone

Things had been going great with the Wellness Super 5 Mix until the day before yesterday when Kona started having diarrhea again. 

We've been taking our time weaning him over from Pro Plan Puppy and had gotten to 1 cup Wellness, 1/2 cup Pro Plan without any issues, gradually increasing the Wellness every few days (it's been a bit over two weeks I believe). 

As soon as we got to to 1 1/4 cups Wellness, 1/4 cup Pro Plan on Tuesday, his stools went from well formed to split pea soup without anything in between. I went back to 1 cup Wellness, 1/4 cup Pro Plan this morning, but he had diarrhea again this afternoon when we took him out during lunch. 

I'm starting to wonder if it has anything to do with the food at all. Does this sound odd? I wonder if it's more likely that he's getting sick from something he eats around the yard when we have him out?


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## Unosmom (May 3, 2009)

I've heard BB often gives dog gas, so it may be rich for some, not sure, never tried it myself. It could be food or possible even a parasite like giardia which is common in puppies. You could try a bland diet of cooked chicken and rice for few days and see how your pup does on that. If that makes difference, then you can know for sure that its the food, and not something else. Protein isnt really an issue, but be aware of calcium and phosphorus levels for large breed puppies, I'm pretty sure that totw isnt suitable, even though its an ALS food. 
I would pick something like acana or orijen puppy if you want to do grain free. Or wait until the pup is full grown to transition to totw.


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## JamesO (Apr 22, 2011)

I like your idea about the chicken and rice; I think we'll give it a shot. Hmm . . . now to find out how much to feed him


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## JamesO (Apr 22, 2011)

It sounds like a cup of rice (before cooking) and a boiled chicken breast?


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## Serendipity (Aug 13, 2010)

I second Orijen! The chicken/turkey based adult formula has low ca/ph, too. The online prices are cheaper and you can usually find codes for free shipping.


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## JamesO (Apr 22, 2011)

I'm really interested in Orijen, but I'm hesitant because we can get it locally. Taste of the Wild is in quite a few stores though . . . Is Orijen significantly better?


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## CavePaws (Jan 25, 2011)

Yes, Orijen is significantly better. But you could just supplement his Taste of the Wild meals with freshly cooked meats. Or raw meaty bones could be supplemented as a meal as well. That would make the diet superior to Orijen alone IMO.


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## FL Cracker (May 4, 2011)

When we picked our pup up she was on Pedigree Puppy....talk about junk! So when I got her home I started to make the switch to "Blue"....and had the same result you did....because of my mistake. I used a 75/25% ratio on mixing the dog foods up.
I then changed my mix ratio to 90/10....for 3 day's....then to 80/20 for three day's....ect. Once I got her completely switched over to BB...she did solid up....but the normal conversion ratio was no good in regards to a "quality kibble"...and took much more time. 
Then I had my eye's opened regarding raw...and made that switch....and to my surprise...the crap that came out of CoCo for the next week was worse than when we switched kibble. Now were perfect...and no more problems.
Good luck with the switch....and hang in there...it takes them time to adapt.
One more thing about BB.... I found that we did better on the daily minimum amount versus the maximum.


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## KittyKat (Feb 11, 2011)

I would check the small pet food stores in your area for Origin, but if you can't get it Taste of the Wild isn't bad either.


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## JamesO (Apr 22, 2011)

KittyKat said:


> I would check the small pet food stores in your area for Origin, but if you can't get it Taste of the Wild isn't bad either.


I had checked the company website, and it isn't available locally. I'm really thinking about ordering a bag though! 

I just want him to have a good food and not have diarrhea :-/ It certainly hasn't effected his energy level though!


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## JamesO (Apr 22, 2011)

FL Cracker said:


> Once I got her completely switched over to BB...she did solid up....but the normal conversion ratio was no good in regards to a "quality kibble"...and took much more time. Then I had my eye's opened regarding raw...and made that switch....and to my surprise...the crap that came out of CoCo for the next week was worse than when we switched kibble. Now were perfect...and no more problems. Good luck with the switch....and hang in there...it takes them time to adapt.


That's really interesting. He's been doing great up until this point, but maybe slowing things down now is what it'll take?


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## nupe (Apr 26, 2011)

I am a RAW feeder , but think Orijen is as close you going to get to RAW WITHOUT ACTUALLY FEEDING raw...Best Kibble on the market IF YOU CAN GET IT!!


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## JamesO (Apr 22, 2011)

I just ordered a 15 lb. bag of the large breed puppy from Pet Flow. Inexpensive flat rate shipping! I'm really looking forward to seeing how he responds to it. We'll go with the 10% increments to see how it goes. I'm excited to try it!


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## doggiedad (Jan 23, 2011)

you might have to switch foods several
times before finding one that works for your dog.
i switch my dogs kibble often. i also have several
brands of can food available. i feed my dog cooked
boneless and skinless chicken breast, raw ground beef,
whole chicken cooked in a pressure cooker (when cooked in a pressure cooker
he gets the whole chicken. the bones turn to moosh. i use the chicken
as a topping for the kibble), fresh fish, canned mackerel, canned salmon,
canned sardines (the can products are in water, no salt added),
salmon oil, olive oil, flax seed oil, flax seed powder, pears, apples,
green veggies, brown or white rice, quinoa, millet. all of the above
i use as a topping for his kibble.


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## JamesO (Apr 22, 2011)

Super happy to report Kona's stools are pretty much perfect after a few days purely on Orijen!


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