# Yield amounts



## Galathiel (Aug 30, 2016)

So, I have a question for you bulk buyers. If you buy a box of .. let's say chicken hearts.. how much do you actually get when you break down a box of 40 lbs (yes, this is a real life example hehe)? They were frozen when I picked them up, so by the time it thawed, it was swimming in blood and water ... as in ... I got around 24 lbs of chicken hearts (I also trimmed the fat from the hearts). It took hours. I was exhausted. I only got 24 lbs.

Is that common?


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

I couldn't tell you on the poundage part, but I can't imagine cutting the fat off of chicken hearts. They don't have hardly any, and dogs do need fat. It seems like there wouldn't be anything left after all that.... something like beef heart with a ton of extra fat I can understand. That's enough to be able to save for lean meals later, but chicken hearts?


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Oh my gosh don't trim the fat!! That's so much work. Fat = energy for dogs. They need fat. Give them the fat from beef hearts, also. 

I get 40 pounds. When I feed my dogs, I save the juice. I don't throw it out. When I feed their boneless meat, I cover it with water and meat juice. Keeps them hydrated. I freeze what I don't need now, because at some point I'll need it. 

Just imagine if you got that 40 pounds frozen. There would be no meat juice - it would all still be in the chicken hearts. It leeches out as it warms up. I consider it part of the heart.

Actually, what I do is put my forty pounds in about six different containers, and fill up the cracks with juice. If there's juice left over, I fill up small containers and thaw as needed. Sometimes I have no juice and it comes in handy. It takes me about 15 minutes to process 40 pounds of meat.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

i remember, when first starting, cutting all of the fat, removing kidneys from chicken backs.

oh my....40 lbs and three hours later, i was ready to go back to kibble

Xellil is right. don't trim the fat. fat is good. xellil gives good advice.

good luck to you.....


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## Galathiel (Aug 30, 2016)

Thanks for the insight. At least I'm not the only one that starts out killing myself with extra work. *grin* The reason I was trimming the fat is my dog is still new to raw and too much fat gives him diarrhea at the moment. Some of the hearts had a lot of fat, some not so much and I probably could have skipped trimming those pieces. I recently tried leaving the skin on his leg quarters, but that was too much and yeah ... not great results. i'm going to try again, just removing part of it and slowly working his tolerance up. I didn't really even think about reserving the liquid from the hearts, but could have and will know for next time. 

I know I was making it harder on myself hehe. Right now I'm using the Honest Kitchen base mix because my dog has anal gland issues (6 months for the infection to finally clear) and want/need the bulk so I was also halving the hearts (or quartering depending on the size) to mix better with THK.

I had him tested (Nutriscan) and need to avoid beef and venison proteins (and rice as well, but that's a non-issue). It has made it a lot more challenging to feed red meat economically. Chicken is cheap usually (well bone in pieces are), but finding a reasonable red meat to add .. eh. Right now I'm using pork (when I can get it for a decent price). I also feed turkey (usually necks) and sardines/mackerel.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

Galathiel said:


> Thanks for the insight. At least I'm not the only one that starts out killing myself with extra work. *grin* The reason I was trimming the fat is my dog is still new to raw and too much fat gives him diarrhea at the moment. Some of the hearts had a lot of fat, some not so much and I probably could have skipped trimming those pieces. I recently tried leaving the skin on his leg quarters, but that was too much and yeah ... not great results. i'm going to try again, just removing part of it and slowly working his tolerance up. I didn't really even think about reserving the liquid from the hearts, but could have and will know for next time.
> 
> I know I was making it harder on myself hehe. Right now I'm using the Honest Kitchen base mix because my dog has anal gland issues (6 months for the infection to finally clear) and want/need the bulk so I was also halving the hearts (or quartering depending on the size) to mix better with THK.
> 
> I had him tested (Nutriscan) and need to avoid beef and venison proteins (and rice as well, but that's a non-issue). It has made it a lot more challenging to feed red meat economically. Chicken is cheap usually (well bone in pieces are), but finding a reasonable red meat to add .. eh. Right now I'm using pork (when I can get it for a decent price). I also feed turkey (usually necks) and sardines/mackerel.


it was a nightmare LOL.......

the amount of fat on a chicken heart isn't enough to give your dog the runs.......but i would probably not start out with heart which is the richer part of chicken, even though chicken is probably the least nutritious and is also the most gentle of nutritions and used to start dogs on raw feeding.

your problem, if i had to guess, would be honest kitchen and possibly one of a few things: either overfeeding, not feeding enough bone -- which is what you need to resolve the anal gland issues, not bulk......

nutriscan, and this is just my opinion, uses cooked proteins for their testings and is therefore, irrelevant and inaccurate.

venison is nearly the perfect food........tripe is also good, and you can mix and match.....prey model means to take different parts of animals to create the whole.

since i'm transitioning a puppy at the moment, here's a sample of a day's worth of food for him...he's a havana silk and weighs 8 lbs..........

in the morning, he gets two chicken necks...that accounts for his bone for the day

for his next meal, he'll get beef cheek along with tripe and a turkey heart.

pork is fine as a protein. just make sure the sodium is under 100mg per 4 ounces......and that it's not marinaded or soaked in some awful solution......

Xellil is very big on making sure her dogs get enough liquid and is wise........preserving the liquid which is serous fluid and water, is a good idea.......

my opinion only...but i'd ditch the honest kitchen......it truly is crap......and go to a full on prey model raw feeding. if you need help, just ask...

in the beginning, i know i felt so alone......the forum who gave me the initial advice on how to feed.....she wrote a beautiful 'how to'......and i followed it word for word.....never have i seen such diarrhea.......oh my....
it was enough to send me back to kibble, until i ran into a guy who used to moderate this forum...i so wish he were still here, because he simplified things....had a way of explaining things which made sense......and was my friend. he laughed at me when i told him i was taking skin/fat/kidneys off of chicken backs....sigh. those were the days.

for you, as a new feeder, tell me how much your dog weighs......and let's see if we can't you on track.

also, for anal gland infections.......one of our members here has a method of clearing them right up.......take epsom salts and colloidal silver and make a compress to apply to your dog's bum. do it daily, a few times a day.......brings relief and heals. because expressing them is bad. very bad..........they need the integrity of the gland to be able to express their own glands. by expressing them for him.......you lose elasticity.


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## Galathiel (Aug 30, 2016)

Yeah, I wouldn't have a problem feeding many novel (and more expensive) proteins if I didn't have a 90 lb German Shepherd. Right now he's eating around 2 lbs a day, plus 1 1/2 to 2 cups of THK rehydrated. If he has less than that, he loses weight. What I've been feeding him, then, is a lb of ground or chopped meat (right now it's pork and I throw in 4 or 5 chicken heart parts) with THK, feeding 2/3 in the morning, and 1/3 in the evening, along with a chicken leg quarter or turkey neck weighing about a lb. Bonewise, he's getting around 12-13% when I feed quarters, up to 21% (ish) when he has necks. Some days he may also get an egg in his meal or I sub sardines/mackerel for one of his bone meals a week. I've been depending on the THK to add the nutrients instead of starting on organs.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

oh dear, that explains the diarrhea....

i have a 105 lb french mastiff who doesn't eat 2 lbs a day.......one of the many reasons i loathe percentages........

in all truth, since he's beginning?

i'd start him out with 24 ounces of real food and save the honest kitchen for, well, nothing i can think of....

go by how he looks.......you should be able to see the outline of his ribs..no, not the starvation look, but the lean, ribby look that saves the knees and hips of dogs....

bone wise, if that amount gives him solid stools, great. if not, you can feed more than the 10% carved in stone, NOT....

i think you're getting too wrapped up in percentages and numbers......eggs are a wonderful addition to a diet..it's practically the perfect food....great for skin and, well, everything...tripe is also a lovely side dish......it can be fed as a whole meal but i use it as a side dish.....whilst i don't consider it to be nature's perfect food or even a probiotic as some do, i do believe it should be part of a nutrition profile.

i'd not feed him chicken necks, because he has those great teeth and he needs to work them...turkey necks would be ideal for him.....duck necks....ostrich necks, emu necks......not beef necks nor pork necks........although i do give duck feet/chicken feet/ even chicken necks to my mastiff....but she has those jowls and really has to work at eating.....so i don't worry about size with her.

with a shepherd or my collie, i make sure i give appropriate sized bone.....because my girl has a set of teeth on her.

if you're using canned sardines or mackerel, save your money. they are cooked and he does not need them.

i posted a pic of nutrients in monkey's thread.....it shows the nutrients your dog is getting....

for my mastiff, she eats 1 lb 8 oz...she's almost three......

she gets pork brisket bone for her bone and it has some meat on it. she gets one meal a day .......her variety includes, beef heart, pork belly for a wee bit of extra fat, especially during change of season.......she eats duck necks.....chicken quarters, pork, beef heart, cheek, lamb.....sometimes she gets alpaca or llama or emu or venison, when i can afford it, as i have four dogs and feed approximately 3 1/2 lbs per day.....


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

i'd love to see two pics of him standing...one from the top and one from the side....


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

I had a dog who was extremely allergic to chicken - but only cooked chicken. He could eat raw chicken all day long. I wouldn't trust that test as correct.

When you go full raw, try beef heart. It's cheaper and more nutritious than other cuts. It's a major part of my dogs' diets, and makes great juice  I order it in bulk from a local butcher.

I understand cost. My dogs don't get exotic meats or a huge variety. What I never cheap out on are organs. I buy those from pastured animals. 

But I wouldn't do beef until you're fully raw. You need to learn to trust the food. Other than feeding bones, believing in the food is the hardest thing about raw feeding. Adjust his poops with more bone, not by removing something he needs.

And like magicre said, you're likely overfeeding. It's extremely common in raw feeders. Do you have a kitchen scale? I still use one, after all these years. I can't eyeball weight at all.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

And buy some organs. I wouldn't even feed them until his poops are good. Take away the THK. He's fine without it for now.


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