# Anyone looking for a Pomeranian?



## Boxers&Pom's Mom (Jan 17, 2011)

The lady from where I got my Phoebe, has Phoebe's sister available. She is 12 weeks old. The problem is that everyone that wants her is with the purpose of breeding her. She looks exactly like Phoebe.
She is asking $300 for her and she is located in PA. She is going to be about 5 lbs when she grow up. 
I really wish I can find a good home for her, since she was my first option and then I change my mind and choose Phoebe. I wish I can get her also, but I can not afford any other dog.
If anyone is interested, I can send pictures and even help with her transportation or make arrangements to send her by airplane if it is far away.
In a way I feel responsible for her and I don't think she should be breed. Is no papers with her, but she has pictures of her parents. She is really cute.


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## eternalstudent (Jul 22, 2010)

Unfortunately I'm in the wrong country, as my answer is yes we are on the look out for a little pom and we have no intention of breeding ever!!

Hope they find her a really good home


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## wags (Jan 31, 2009)

My daughter is a POM LOVER! This is her dream dog! UGH! She will eventually move into an apt. and this is the dog she is looking for, but she is not there yet! I wish I didnt live so far ~~Illinois. My god this is so tempting!UGH! But with 4 dogs now I do have to have her in her place and man do I wish (you dont know how much for her because of this opportunity with this puppy~Not becasue I want her to move out haha!) she was right now. this would have been so perfect and I do mean so perfect for her.


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## Boxers&Pom's Mom (Jan 17, 2011)

I wish she find her forever home from someone from this forum. If I were living alone, I will buy her and find her a home after, but hubby not even want to heard anything about that. Please, keep moving this post up to see if we find her a home instead of going as a breeder to a Puppy Mill.


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## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

Awwww, come on Wagsy, one itty, bittie, teeny tiny little puppy, you won't even notice she's there! Your daughter will love you forever!!!


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

OK I know I am new here.... but I have been kicked off boards before, so here goes...

Is selling dogs allowed here? This "breeder" is selling a dog for $300 with no papers - should we really be supporting this kind of backyard breeding operation through buying dogs from them and encouraging them to keep on breeding?


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## Boxers&Pom's Mom (Jan 17, 2011)

xellil said:


> OK I know I am new here.... but I have been kicked off boards before, so here goes...
> 
> Is selling dogs allowed here? This "breeder" is selling a dog for $300 with no papers - should we really be supporting this kind of backyard breeding operation through buying dogs from them and encouraging them to keep on breeding?


Please, read well my post. I am not a breeder. I am just trying to find a good home for her.
What about is you look at it as saving one dog to be purchase by a Puppy Mill just to procreate?Any adoption fee is about the same amount of money she is asking for her. She is not a puppy mill, but she needs to sell her and I am the one trying to avoid that she end in a Puppy Mill. If I were able to do it, I will buy her and then find a good home for her. Please, read carefully, so you understand why I am doing it. 
She is almost sold to the Puppy Mill and I am trying to hold the owner not to do it, but I don't know for how long I will be able to.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

I didn't say you were a breeder, i never meant to say that. But you are offering a dog for sale .

But, because we buy these dogs, we support the backyard breeders AND the puppy mills. When we see the cute puppy in the pet shop we say "oh we have to save it" but in reality, we are just causing more dogs to be put in pet stores, bred in puppy mills, and the cycle continues.

We need more and better laws - but it's like drugs - as long as there is the market, there will be people who treat dogs cruelly in order to make a buck off of them. And they rely on the feeling of "oh if I don't save this dog" or "if I don't buy her someone else will" to keep making that buck. 

I try to understand it, but I just can't. I have never paid money for a dog in my life, unless it was to a rescue. 

How do you know she will go to a puppy mill? Is that what the breeder told you? Do you think she might just be saying that to get you to fork over another $300?


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## Boxers&Pom's Mom (Jan 17, 2011)

xellil said:


> I didn't say you were a breeder, i never meant to say that. But you are offering a dog for sale .
> 
> But, because we buy these dogs, we support the backyard breeders AND the puppy mills. When we see the cute puppy in the pet shop we say "oh we have to save it" but in reality, we are just causing more dogs to be put in pet stores, bred in puppy mills, and the cycle continues.
> 
> ...


I am understand what you said. It is something personal. It is a long story. I really wish to find a good home for her. This people are young with no experience and these puppies are from her pets. I had the opportunity to visit them and they are not backyard breeders or Puppy Mills. 
She was my first choice and I change my mind. Now, I feel bad that she end up in a Puppy Mill.


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## MissusMac (Jan 6, 2011)

Asking $300 for a puppy and saying that she'll go to a puppy mill if someone doesn't pay that price sounds very wrong to me. If this breeder cares about the puppy's future they will keep it indefinitely until it can go to a good home.

Why didn't she have homes for the puppies before she bred her dog? Rhetorical question, I can see the type of person this breeder is if she's even considering selling the pup to a puppy mill.


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## doggiedad (Jan 23, 2011)

the OP is trying to help find a home for the dog. thank you OP. i'm totally against
BYB's but for some reason i feel different about this breeding.



xellil said:


> OK I know I am new here.... but I have been kicked off boards before, so here goes...
> 
> Is selling dogs allowed here? This "breeder" is selling a dog for $300 with no papers - should we really be supporting this kind of backyard breeding operation through buying dogs from them and encouraging them to keep on breeding?


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## Boxers&Pom's Mom (Jan 17, 2011)

MissusMac said:


> Asking $300 for a puppy and saying that she'll go to a puppy mill if someone doesn't pay that price sounds very wrong to me. If this breeder cares about the puppy's future they will keep it indefinitely until it can go to a good home.
> 
> Why didn't she have homes for the puppies before she bred her dog? Rhetorical question, I can see the type of person this breeder is if she's even considering selling the pup to a puppy mill.


Ok, all is wrong, but I am just trying to save a puppy that did not ask to be born. I just wonder why the puppy have to pay for an human wrong decision? So, because the breeder is the worst person, puppy there you go to a Puppy Mill. Nice!


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

There are seven MILLION dogs euthanized each year, and every single one of them deserves a good, loving home. The reason is puppy mills and backyard breeders who breed indiscriminately, creating many more dogs than there are people who can love and take care of them - AND the people who fund them by buying these dogs. Seven million dogs a year pay their lives because of these people and they did not ask to be born, either. 

Please, people, don't buy these dogs. If this person knows a puppy mill breeder well enough to sell a dog to it, this person is not just some poor woman who forget to lock the door on a dog in heat. If that were true, she wouldn't even be considering giving her dog up to a life of living hell and then thrown out in the garbage. This person is evil and a dirtbag who surely doesn't deserve $300 in order to make a profit that encourages her to do it again.


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## CavePaws (Jan 25, 2011)

xellil said:


> There are seven MILLION dogs euthanized each year, and every single one of them deserves a good, loving home. The reason is puppy mills and backyard breeders who breed indiscriminately, creating many more dogs than there are people who can love and take care of them - AND the people who fund them by buying these dogs. Seven million dogs a year pay their lives because of these people and they did not ask to be born, either.
> 
> Please, people, don't buy these dogs. If this person knows a puppy mill breeder well enough to sell a dog to it, this person is not just some poor woman who forget to lock the door on a dog in heat. If that were true, she wouldn't even be considering giving her dog up to a life of living hell and then thrown out in the garbage. This person is evil and a dirtbag who surely doesn't deserve $300 in order to make a profit that encourages her to do it again.


Whilst I agree that the woman who is considering selling one of the puppies she has bred to a Puppy Mill is in the wrong; I don't think it's right to jump on Boxer and Poms mom like that. All she is trying to do is save a life. She is trying to save what could end up as one of those seven million dogs you talk about. Dogs are euthenized for a plethora of reasons, and the biggest reasons are poor standards of ownership and overpopulation. Poor Standards of ownership usually transfers to lack of training, when the dog is just causing problems owners think they can't fix, they are quickly isolated from the family. Overpopulation/Needlessly breeding is what creates lots of these dogs, but so do reputable breeders. You have to understand, I saw a purebred Border Collie from great lines (sweet as pie, but had some "issues") bought from a very reputable breeder, and if one of our trainers on staff wouldn't have adopted her she would have gone to the pound. She had aggression issues so this was a death sentence. Dogs that come from reputable breeders can be just as easily cast off to the pound. Perhaps someone is going to think twice before sending the $500 puppy to the pound, but they are most likely weighing the options of what further damage this dog will do to their life. I think reputable breeders of dogs add to the "overpopulation" similarly(not the same) as backyard breeders and puppy mills do. The difference is the standards of living and standards for breeding for one breeder are superior to the other. They are contributing to over population overall, but if reputable breeders were not around we would be losing breeds left and right. Yes, in the ideal world we wouldn't have backyard breeders, but there isn't a way to completely stop it. That is unrealistic. We've been doing this for ages. Did you know spaying and neutering has done almost zilch to touch the number of dogs surrendered each year? It's not mainly because of "overpopulation", it is because of behavioral issues that most of the time can easily be solved. Some of the dogs who are cast out of public eye into death row quickly have aggression issues that not many people are fit to deal with. This is an unfortunate reality of how domestication works, we are culling the stock - and it isn't "right", but because people continue breeding, it continues happening. If less people bred there is a possibility more dogs would be adopted, perhaps breeders would be more picky and choosy of who their dogs go to (that wouldn't be a bad thing) There is in my opinion no reason someone shouldn't buy this dog to save her life. The fact is that she doesn't come from a Puppy Mill, she comes from a backyard breeder. You support her in paying the breeder but it is going to a cause which could save this dog a lifetime of suffering AND add to the number of dogs producing. It is sad to weigh those options, to have to weigh those options is sad, but consider what it is really doing to the world of breeding when this dog is taken off the market and spayed. Please be realistic, not buying one puppy from this woman is not going to stop backyard breeding and it probably isn't going to hinder this woman in her decision to breed the next time her dog comes into heat.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

you are taking this post at face value - why? Do you REALLY believe "I know someone who is going to sell this dog to a puppy mill if she doesn't get $300 for it?" And if it's true, that's even worse that people fall for it.

It's not any better than a craigslist ad saying "if you don't get my dog by Friday he's going to the pound." 

I'll tell you what - give me the dog for free, I'll pay to have it shipped or come pick it up, I'll get it spayed and find it a wonderful home. Believe me, that would cost alot more than $300.

No, one person not selling their dog is not going to stop backyard breeders or puppy mills. The problem is, so many people think that way. And it continues to perpetuate the abuse, cruelty, torture and lonely death of dogs for generations to come.


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## CavePaws (Jan 25, 2011)

A lot of the time backyard breeders like this aren't keeping their dogs in sub-standard living conditions. You're still not accounting for how reputable breeders add to the population. It is VERY different from a craigslist ad saying that if you don't get my dog by Friday he is going to the pound. A lot of the time those people are pleading for help because they know their dogs chances of being adopted are slim. 

This woman is wrong, I'm not disputing the fact that she is wrong. I am disputing the thought that no one should buy a puppy from her. I agree she should be giving the dogs away or at least selling them for a much more reasonable cost. I'd venture to say she hasn't spent $300 of care on this one puppy.

The point that the problem is "so many people think this way" isn't going to change, ever. Yes we can educate, we've been doing it for years, but people are ignorant and arrogant and continue to add to the numbers without much thought to the dogs sitting on death row. It is not going to change. The pet industry is HUGE, there is lots of money to be made from it and people see that and try to take advantage of it. Unfortunately these backyard breeders and puppy mills don't consider that they may have to cut a few losses if no one wants a pup. What do they do with it then? That is up to them and there are a lot of unsavory options.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

I agree with what you say except the craigslist ad part - I think it's exactly the same thing. If I said what I would really like to see happen to those people, I would have the police at my door.

I am also willing to find a good local Pom rescue for that puppy. There are lots of options for it that won't get that breeder $300. If it is really a purebred puppy, it won't have any problem finding a home that doesn't net it's owner a profit. Using the threat of selling a dog to a puppy mill just to make a buck is beyond disgusting.


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## CavePaws (Jan 25, 2011)

Oh I agree. :| Trust me, I agree. It is so wrong. When I found a couple litters of puppies, I gave them away for free, with their first set of shots, toys, a blanket with their littermates smells, their food to mix into whatever the other owners would be feeding, and I gave recommendations for trainers in the area. They were very well socialized, and perhaps I could have made a quick buck off of them (probably just end up paying for what they cost me) but I didn't because I felt like by giving them away for free I was opening the door to a lot more people to "examine" as potential owners. I made sure they went to good "forever" homes (we only had one brought back to us - a couple of months later, and yes, I did ask for the pups to be brought back to me if it didn't work out)


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

That makes you a really good person - I haven't ever found a litter that I had to give away, we lived in the country close to a college town and people dumped their dogs, including litters - mostly what I found were either dead pups or almost dead pups, after the fire ants got them. Some, I was able to save and keep but mostly people dumped off young, large dogs that outgrew their apartments. If they were lucky, I found them before they got shot, starved, or killed by the dog packs. I just don't have alot of tolerance for stuff like this, because I have seen the absolute worst. 

If I were going to save a dog, it would be a dog that had already been through that process and could no longer make a profit for the greedy, cruel, ignorant people who breed them. There are so many of those. I could go out today and find purebred Poms all over the place, I am sure. $300 could go toward the care and support of fixing those dogs that have been tossed away instead of into the pockets of someone who is just going to do it again.

Now, I haven't looked because I am a mini dachsund person but I know of purebured dachsund puppies right now that are available via rescue and wouldn't put money into the hands of these people. And Dobermans, my other passion - all over the place. 

but mostly, I have owned "mutts" - the dogs that truly no one wants. Unsocialized, untrained, ignored, unwanted, and eventually dumped into a pound or left on the side of a road. There are so many to save, that wouldn't feed the puppy machines out there. And don't even get me started on designer dogs - mutts for a high price. We are such a nation of stupids.


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## Boxers&Pom's Mom (Jan 17, 2011)

Sorry if it cause so much controversy. I spoke to the woman and she said someone local is getting her. I don't know if it is true or not, but I can not bring her here because my husband is not allowing me. I know it will be ideal if I can get both sisters. 
I am agree at everything and thank you to the friends that back me up. I was thinking that I was doing something right. One at the time. If everyone save a dog will not be all the problems that we have, but is easy close our eyes and let it happen.
It is never be resolve as I see. In another hand agree with Cave Paw that also reputable breeders adding to this situation. 
My daughter got a Black Lab Puppy for a "Reputable Breeder" and she is been hard work. Some people buy dogs without reading about the breed and then they end at the shelters. I see a lot of puppies Labs in Pet Finder list and I am sure is because ppl get the cute puppy and then give up with a such active dog.
As I understand she doesn't want to sell her to a Puppy Mill, but her husband just wants her to sell her. About how much she had spend in the puppy, in this case I think she is close to the $ 300. Puppy has all her vaccines and she has to take her twice to the vet when she was very young because she had bad diarrheas. I am aware of that. I think since I got Phoebe, I had spend that amount of money in vet and not counting food and other stuff.
Probably, I am feeling this way because she was supposed to be my puppy and I choose the other one in the last minute. 
I am going to ask the moderator to close this post. I don't want to create any more controversies in something that at least for now anyone of us can fix. Is a lot of money in the Pet Industry that it is not going to be easy.


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