# salmon. freezing. question. help?



## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

So, I was discussing raw feeding on a corgi forum, and hit a brick wall. 



> Also, it's important to note that there are levels of bacteria in pacific salmon that is very dangerous to dogs. So only feed atlantic salmon. And remember to pick a protein source you will never feed, in case you ever need to do an elimination diet.


I thought it was a virus, not bacteria, and that freezing eliminates the threat? So that's what I asked and they responded with:



> And it is actually a bacteria . An organism called Neorickettsia helminthoeca is often found in salmonids west of the Cascades. This bacterium is what causes salmon poisoning in dogs.
> 
> Merck Veterinary Manual


are they right? Anyone have any material on this being corect or incorrect.


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

I've always heard its a parasite and I have seen the name but don't remember it. Freeze for 2 to 4 weeks and you should be ok. I have never heard first hand of a dog getting ill from eating raw salmon.

Freezing does not kill bacteria. Not sure about virus, but in this case we are talking about a parasite. It's also in only wild caught salmon from the Pacific northwest. Wild caught salmon is much more expensive then farm raised. Almost all the salmon from the grocery stores are farm raised so no need to worry. If it's wild caught, they will make a big dieal out of it.

I feed canned salmon. No need to worry about that. I wouldn't hesitate to feed whole salmon if I could get it at a reasonable price. Around here its usually $7 - $10/lb.


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## malluver1005 (Nov 15, 2009)

Sh*t, I just came back from the grocery store and bought some Pacific Wild Caught Salmon. Oh well, better start freezing...


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

They are right. Its a complicated life cycle that involves several different species. 

First, a "larval" form of a flatworm or fluke (called a metacercariae) infects a species of snail, or the intermediate host that doesn't exhibit any disease. The fish are infected from eating the intermediate host in the life cycle of this worm. When a dog or other canid eats infected fish the larval worms infect the dog, but don't actually cause the illness. The larval worms themselves are infected with the bacteria N_eorickettsia helminthoeca_ (a commensal to them) which they release, called _rickettsia_, that causes the actual illness to the dog. I remember learning about this in my parasitology class in school, loved that class :biggrin:


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

RawFedDogs said:


> I've always heard its a parasite and I have seen the name but don't remember it. Freeze for 2 to 4 weeks and you should be ok. I have never heard first hand of a dog getting ill from eating raw salmon.
> 
> Freezing does not kill bacteria. Not sure about virus, but in this case we are talking about a parasite. It's also in only wild caught salmon from the Pacific northwest. Wild caught salmon is much more expensive then farm raised. Almost all the salmon from the grocery stores are farm raised so no need to worry. If it's wild caught, they will make a big dieal out of it.
> 
> I feed canned salmon. No need to worry about that. I wouldn't hesitate to feed whole salmon if I could get it at a reasonable price. Around here its usually $7 - $10/lb.


Its not the parasite that causes the disease. Its the bacteria that is carried by the parasite. But freezing apparently does the trick :wink:


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

danemama08 said:


> They are right. Its a complicated life cycle that involves several different species.
> 
> First, a "larval" form of a flatworm or fluke (called a metacercariae) infects a species of snail, or the intermediate host that doesn't exhibit any disease. The fish are infected from eating the intermediate host in the life cycle of this worm. When a dog or other canid eats infected fish the larval worms infect the dog, but don't actually cause the illness. The larval worms themselves are infected with the bacteria N_eorickettsia helminthoeca_ (a commensal to them) which they release, called _rickettsia_, that causes the actual illness to the dog. I remember learning about this in my parasitology class in school, loved that class :biggrin:


so it's a parasite that has a bacteria? freaking complicated.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Like I said, a complicated life cycle LOL :wink:

I guess you can say that the parasitic worm is just the vector for the actual disease causing agent....the bacteria.


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## JayJayisme (Aug 2, 2009)

All Atlantic Salmon is farm raised. There is no wild Atlantic salmon left. All "wild caught" pacific salmon you buy this time of year has most likely been previously frozen. Look on the label, it should say "previously frozen". If you buy "pacific salmon" between April and September, it can be either fresh or frozen. But outside of that range, it is most likely frozen or previously frozen then thawed for sale.


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## spookychick13 (Jan 26, 2010)

Speaking of fluke (ba dum dum), I am pretty sure this bacteria carrying parasite is pretty darn rare. I vaguely remember reading that it was common in a specific region only(and wild caught salmon)...and that freezing will indeed kill it.

Correct me if I'm wrong.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

It is pretty darn rare, especially in this day and age. But its still out there, but restricted mostly to the western coast, especially up near the Cascade mountains but has been reported as south as Orange County in Cali.


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## malluver1005 (Nov 15, 2009)

danemama08 said:


> It is pretty darn rare, especially in this day and age. But its still out there, but restricted mostly to the western coast, especially up near the Cascade mountains but has been reported as south as Orange County in Cali.


Oh darn!!!


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## rannmiller (Jun 27, 2008)

Haha poor malluver! You could always cook the salmon too, it will still be good for Aspen!


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## malluver1005 (Nov 15, 2009)

rannmiller said:


> Haha poor malluver! You could always cook the salmon too, it will still be good for Aspen!


Yes I know, but I would like to retain all of the nutrients...

He likes it better raw anyway...


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