# Losing alot of weight!!! Is this NORMAL?



## Carlita05 (Aug 17, 2012)

So we are almost a month into raw and I have been asking you guys for alot of advice! My two danes were not transitioning very easily.... alot of diarrhea.... and even though we have some firm stools now (we are STILL on just chicken backs and quarters)... there are still days where canon butt is a big issue.... 

I was advised to feed less.... to remove skin and organs.... get organic chickens.... and Ive done all this and the stool is becoming better over time.... BUT my dogs have lost SO much weight its alarming. I can see ALL their ribs now and the vertebrae's are starting to show..... 

Is this ok??? Is this something I need to be concerned about? I know that I read over time the weight can be put back on.. but for one year old danes to look like this is kind of making me nervous....


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## Tracy (Aug 11, 2012)

I'm no expert, but I would be worried too. Our Ridgeback gets 3 or 4 smaller meals per day. It stops him getting the runs. If I give him too much in one sitting, it does not seem to agree with him. He needs to eat with his medication, so staggering his amount throughout the day works well for him. I do this with the other dogs too, to keep them all the same. Beautiful dog. I love Danes.

Tracy
xx


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## SaharaNight Boxers (Jun 28, 2011)

Do you have a pic?

Duke lost about 3 pounds at first because he was on only white meats. We're on beef now and he's gained back about a pound. Some of it may be fat vs. muscle too. The same area size of fat weighs more than muscle so of she's gaining muscle that might be part of it. If that's not it is just wait until you get on red meat and look at her again.


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## Carlita05 (Aug 17, 2012)

SaharaNight Boxers said:


> Do you have a pic?
> 
> Duke lost about 3 pounds at first because he was on only white meats. We're on beef now and he's gained back about a pound. Some of it may be fat vs. muscle too. The same area size of fat weighs more than muscle so of she's gaining muscle that might be part of it. If that's not it is just wait until you get on red meat and look at her again.



I will try to get an image of him standing so everyone can see how skinny he is now... My female too.. She was pure muscle before and now I can see her ribs and spine.... I am going to be adding in Turkey necks next week but I dont know how much longer until I can introduce red meat! Especially since they didnt transition over well ... I just cant imagine them getting any skinnier at such a crucial age for growth.... Just not sure what to do. 

I gave them a chicken back now midday as a treat.. I will see if maybe giving smaller portions throughout the day helps.... Thank you for that suggestion!


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## mheath0429 (Sep 8, 2012)

Are you feeding too much? This happens to me when I over feed. The other question is how much bone are you feeding? To firm the stool you could add bone meal powder. I like Kal Inc. They make a great powder.


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## bluebo (Sep 9, 2012)

Sometimes raw doesn't work. Why did you decide to switch in the first place?


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## mheath0429 (Sep 8, 2012)

bluebo said:


> Sometimes raw doesn't work. Why did you decide to switch in the first place?


 That's actually not true. Different dogs thrive on different meats. You may need to try a different protein source. 

For example m female can't have chicken, or this happens. Yet, she does great on beef, duck and turkey.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Can you pinpoint what causes the episodes of cannon butt? 

How often is this happening? 

Is it quick to resolve or does it take days to get them back on track?


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## CoverTune (Dec 20, 2011)

Breathe. My boy George had a ROUGH transition as well.. I was on here daily with questions and concerns, and he also lost a lot of weight, ribs showing, hips and spine starting to poke out. I was pretty worried, but in time, we made the transition, and the weight came back no problem.


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## SaharaNight Boxers (Jun 28, 2011)

What percentage of their weight are you feeding?


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## bluebo (Sep 9, 2012)

It's insane what torture one will put an animal through to have them on the "perfect" diet. There is no "perfect" diet. If your dog did well on kibble/canned then I would keep on it! Dont fix what isn't broken...


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## SaharaNight Boxers (Jun 28, 2011)

bluebo said:


> It's insane what torture one will put an animal through to have them on the "perfect" diet. There is no "perfect" diet. If your dog did well on kibble/canned then I would keep on it! Dont fix what isn't broken...


Torture really? Losing a bit of weight isn't torture. The whole don't fix what isn't broken thing really doesn't make sense to me. Sure you can have a dog that does well on kibble, but what do you have to compare it to? You can't say it isn't broken without something to compare to. The dog you think is doing great on kibble could look better on raw, but you wouldn't know.


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## bluebo (Sep 9, 2012)

Her dogs ribs and spine are jutting out. That's pretty serious in a Dane puppy.... 
Op- why did you switch your dog to raw besides the hype? Was your dog having issues with his/her original diet?


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## SaharaNight Boxers (Jun 28, 2011)

@carlita I just wanted to mention even when I thought Duke was down a lot of weight and too skinny we got a win pic of him. He was still very thick looking. When he's trottin I can see the outline of a few ribs and I can see part of his spine when he's walking.


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## Sheltielover25 (Jan 18, 2011)

bluebo said:


> Her dogs ribs and spine are jutting out. That's pretty serious in a Dane puppy....
> Op- why did you switch your dog to raw besides the hype? Was your dog having issues with his/her original diet?


[email protected] the hype. This person is clearly trying to start trouble. I wasn't aware feeding a carnivore the proper diet was hype. lol Just because your dog kept weight on while eating kibble certainly doesn't mean "it wasn't broken." Feeding processed food day after day takes a toll on anything. And yeah, there is a perfect diet for a carnivore... it's called eating raw meat/bones/organs (or as close to whole prey as you can)


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## SaharaNight Boxers (Jun 28, 2011)

bluebo said:


> Her dogs ribs and spine are jutting out. That's pretty serious in a Dane puppy....
> Op- why did you switch your dog to raw besides the hype? Was your dog having issues with his/her original diet?


I've seen a few ribby Danes in class or at shows. I can also tell where their hip bones are. Their musculature is still developing. I see it mainly in 6-12 month puppies and her dogs are 12 months do it wouldn't surprise me. 

If you search around the raw diet isn't hype. It's been around longer than kibble. The original standard for Boxers has them made to thrive off of meat, eggs, and milk. Don't agree with the milk though. The breed was created in the early 1900s.


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## bluebo (Sep 9, 2012)

SaharaNight Boxers said:


> I've seen a few ribby Danes in class or at shows. I can also tell where their hip bones are. Their musculature is still developing. I see it mainly in 6-12 month puppies and her dogs are 12 months do it wouldn't surprise me.
> 
> If you search around the raw diet isn't hype. It's been around longer than kibble. The original standard for Boxers has them made to thrive off of meat, eggs, and milk. Don't agree with the milk though. The breed was created in the early 1900s.


Im sure she said "my dogs have lost a LOT of weight". I'm sure she also said- "almost constant cannon butt". These things may be the norm for raw feeders but it isn't the norm. 
As for "dog food not being fed until the early 1900's" well since dogs became domesticated man has been feeding an array of items. A lot if carbohydrates and vegetables were fed to the early domesticated dog and (obviously) they have survived thus far. I don't want to get into a debate but I will say that the "evidence" being touted by raw feeders IS debatable. 
The OP still hasnt answered the question? Do any of you know why she chose to switch her dogs onto a raw diet?


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## Sheltielover25 (Jan 18, 2011)

bluebo said:


> Im sure she said "my dogs have lost a LOT of weight". I'm sure she also said- "almost constant cannon butt". These things may be the norm for raw feeders but it isn't the norm.


These are usually human errors. It takes a bit to figure out how the dog needs to eat as most people aren't throwing down whole animals like they'd eat in the wild so it takes a bit to figure out the right ratio since we're not allowing them to do it on their own. 



bluebo said:


> The OP still hasnt answered the question? Do any of you know why she chose to switch her dogs onto a raw diet?


Because it's the proper way to feed a carnivore? Because she wanted to know exactly what her dog was eating? Because she didn't want to be affected by the recalls? They want their dog to get nutrients from meat vs vitamin mixes made in China? Those are a few reasons I can think of. Anyway, you have posted seven times so you're clearly on here starting trouble.


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## bluebo (Sep 9, 2012)

Sheltielover25 said:


> These are usually human errors. It takes a bit to figure out how the dog needs to eat as most people aren't throwing down whole animals like they'd eat in the wild so it takes a bit to figure out the right ratio since we're not allowing them to do it on their own.
> *She did everything that you have all suggested- to no avail! Now what? She is STILL feeding boney chicken with skin trimmed off.....? What if there are no suggestions left?*
> 
> 
> ...


^ in bold lettering.


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## SaharaNight Boxers (Jun 28, 2011)

We almost always have suggestion from what I've seen. If chicken doesn't work I'd suggest quail or turkey. Quail is a protein I've found very mild. It even has a mild almost sweet smell. 

I believe she's looking for ideas, experiences, and help. Not someone to tell her to give up. I don't think it's wrong for people to feed kibble. I did. I don't prefer of and it does cause issues, but I don't have a problem with it. It's their dog, not mine.


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## Sheltielover25 (Jan 18, 2011)

bluebo said:


> ^ in bold lettering.


Well, considering I don't buy from grocery stores, I don't deal with this. I agree grocery store meat is far from ideal, but at least you know your dog is eating MEAT vs who knows what and you know they aren't dealing with vitamins from China. It's superior by far to some processed bag of who knows what. 

Like Sahara said, she's looking for other options to explore, not to go back to kibble. So let's stop even discussing kibble and focus on ways for her to find the right combination for her dogs.


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## bluebo (Sep 9, 2012)

SaharaNight Boxers said:


> We almost always have suggestion from what I've seen. If chicken doesn't work I'd suggest quail or turkey. Quail is a protein I've found very mild. It even has a mild almost sweet smell.
> *Where is the science in that? It has a sweet smell so it is mild? This is exactly why I don't listen half the time to raws feeders claims... take it with a grain of salt my friends.
> So what if those protein sources don't work? Then what?*
> 
> ...


Bold again...


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## bluebo (Sep 9, 2012)

Sheltielover25 said:


> Well, considering I don't buy from grocery stores, I don't deal with this. I agree grocery store meat is far from ideal, but at least you know your dog is eating MEAT vs who knows what and you know they aren't dealing with vitamins from China. It's superior by far to some processed bag of who knows what.
> 
> Like Sahara said, she's looking for other options to explore, not to go back to kibble. So let's stop even discussing kibble and focus on ways for her to find the right combination for her dogs.


I think a balanced COOKED diet might be ideal. Maybe specific pathogens are contributing to the animals issues. Perhaps parasites? I would try lightly cooked chicken and boiled brown rice. Just to get the poor animal balanced out for a bit. Then I would research some ideal cooked diet recipes that are healthy and have been proven beneficial.


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## SaharaNight Boxers (Jun 28, 2011)

bluebo said:


> Bold again...


The whiter a meat is the less rich it it. Quail is a very white meat. I'm just saying that it has a mild smell, that's all. Not even a stronger smell like chicken. If that doesn't work then I'd try slippery elm bark. Stop trying to go down the "then what" road. 

I highly doubt her dogs are dehydrated or starving. Dogs have gone days without eating and aren't starving. Their stomachs and bodies are made for fluctuations. They're eating do they're getting water and food through it. They can't be starving or dehydrated really. And like I said before what is the quite well being compared to? That dog might seem like he's doing quite well, but could do even better on raw. You can't compare something without having another thing to compare against.


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

Carlita, 

Could you please post some pictures so we can see how serious the weight loss is. There is always some weight loss because of chicken being a lower calorie meat. There are some using you to instigate but there are several of us waiting to help. Danes are one of the breeds that can be very sensitive in digestion so don't despair.


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## SaharaNight Boxers (Jun 28, 2011)

bluebo said:


> I think a balanced COOKED diet might be ideal. Maybe specific pathogens are contributing to the animals issues. Perhaps parasites? I would try lightly cooked chicken and boiled brown rice. Just to get the poor animal balanced out for a bit. Then I would research some ideal cooked diet recipes that are healthy and have been proven beneficial.


Cooking destroys enzymes. That's not really going to help the situation. Parasites don't live in healthy animals. Bacteria can and dogs are made to overcome them and they can. 

If you don't like raw then fine, but stop being anti-raw in the raw section. This is what helps create the friction between the two sections.


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

Bluebo

"And why is there always raw leakage (no pun intended) into the kibble/canned (unnatural poison I mean lol) section?"vising 

Since you posted this in a kibble thread where no one was advising or coercing anyone to feed raw please take your own advise and take your kibble dribble back to the kibble section as you obviously have nothing to offer a raw feeder in experience, opinion, or knowledge. You have a posting style much like that of someone who was banned this summer. Lots of anger, very little knowledge.


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## GoingPostal (Sep 5, 2011)

My older girl lost a fair amount of weight on raw, but it was a couple months in and after surgery, she wasn't having any digestive issues and upping the food by a lot for a month or so fixed the issue. Maybe go ahead and introduce turkey, it's possible chicken doesn't agree with them and necks are pretty boney. Have you tried adding some digestive enzymes to help? Haven't used them myself so don't have a good brand to suggest but know some people have had success with them.


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## bluebo (Sep 9, 2012)

Liz said:


> Bluebo
> 
> "And why is there always raw leakage (no pun intended) into the kibble/canned (unnatural poison I mean lol) section?"vising
> 
> Since you posted this in a kibble thread where no one was advising or coercing anyone to feed raw please take your own advise and take your kibble dribble back to the kibble section as you obviously have nothing to offer a raw feeder in experience, opinion, or knowledge. You have a posting style much like that of someone who was banned this summer. Lots of anger, very little knowledge.


I was attempting to help the op. I don't think her dogs are cut out for an all raw diet... that's my opinion. I would not watch my dogs starve and poop themselves to death or at least sickness.


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## BeagleCountry (Jan 20, 2012)

Liz said:


> Bluebo
> 
> "And why is there always raw leakage (no pun intended) into the kibble/canned (unnatural poison I mean lol) section?"vising
> 
> Since you posted this in a kibble thread where no one was advising or coercing anyone to feed raw please take your own advise and take your kibble dribble back to the kibble section as you obviously have nothing to offer a raw feeder in experience, opinion, or knowledge. *You have a posting style much like that of someone who was banned this summer. * Lots of anger, very little knowledge.


It is her. I went through her previous posts. There were too many matches. Apparently, returned to continue stirring the raw pot.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

bluebo said:


> I was attempting to help the op. I don't think her dogs are cut out for an all raw diet... that's my opinion. I would not watch my dogs starve and poop themselves to death or at least sickness.


The OP intentionally posted in the raw section. Thus intentionally asking or advice on a raw diet. If she/he didn't want to continue pursuing raw then they'd I'm sure ask for kibble advice. 

Coming into this thread to suggest switching to kibble, in a way that isn't nice at all...is the furthest thing from helpful. We here in the raw forum try to support and help each other. We've seen many times that dogs transiting are a little rocky but with the right help and support from experienced raw feeders is all they need to get them through the hurdles. Having a skeptical person come in, isn't helpful. I assume the op has a mind of their own, capable of making informed decisions. If they decide to continue with raw, respect their choice and wait for them to come to you for help if raw doesn't "work"


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## xchairity_casex (Oct 8, 2011)

to the OP, please dont be frightend off raw due to bluebo trying to create drama. all 3 of mine lost weight starting raw, i have a 13 week old BT pup who i started on raw, had NO runny poops EVER and STILL lost enough weight that it concerd me, so i began feeding cooked meat with the raw to just help fill her up. figured cooked meat mixed with raw was way better then kibble mixed shes gained weight and is still doing great.

my boy Cesar would get tummy upsets often too and loading up the bone seemed to help him alot i would feed him chiken necks and if he had an upset/ cannon butt i would get some chicken drumsticks, cut most of the meat off and feed just the bone worked like a charm.

i dont know if i did the right things in either situation, but for my pup i was very alarmed by the amount of weight loss, you could see her ribs, her hip bones and her spine, it may not have been what others would have done but i added in the cooked meat to help and it did.


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## mheath0429 (Sep 8, 2012)

Wow this forum never ceases to amaze me. Are people always attacking each other?

I think it is safe to say we will not be able to help until we hear from the OP. 

But, I would add a tablespoon of Coconut Oil into your meals. Not only is this antiviral, antibacterial and antifungal, it helps regulate weight. 

As far as raw being hype, you can talk to the wolves about that - funny how they all survived this long.


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## bluebo (Sep 9, 2012)

I'm not trying to discourage the OP, I am simply trying to tell her that it is ok if she doesn't want to continue on this diet. One of the oldest dogs was on a vegan diet (I don't advocate vegan either) but it shows that dogs are resillient and can thrive on almost any diet. 
Here's an article on Bramble -- (keep in mind that I don't agree with everything in the article but more that I am giving the story about Bramble) Vegetarian Dog Lives 189 Years | Frederic Patenaude Raw Foods Diet


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## mheath0429 (Sep 8, 2012)

Dog's can SURVIVE on anything - but they THRIVE on a species specific diet.


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## bluebo (Sep 9, 2012)

If the dog lived to 28 then I would say he did more then "survive"!


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

I don't think we need to derail this thread more than it already has been. Lets all wait until the OP returns....ok? Great.


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## Carlita05 (Aug 17, 2012)

mheath0429 said:


> Are you feeding too much? This happens to me when I over feed. The other question is how much bone are you feeding? To firm the stool you could add bone meal powder. I like Kal Inc. They make a great powder.


I am feeding them one chicken back and a quarter per meal (twice a day) which is usually under 2 lbs per
Dog a day. I was advised to do less than 3% for now because of the diarrea issues we had been having . I always make sure to feed a bone heavy cut with a quarter (for now)


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## Carlita05 (Aug 17, 2012)

bluebo said:


> Sometimes raw doesn't work. Why did you decide to switch in the first place?


I tried every premium kibble recommended to me by other dane owners and the vet. My male has bad skin reactions to them. As you can see in my photos he is a white pie bald... So his skin would have dark red spots all over and they would scab out and spread. And antibiotics and meds didn't help either. Finally my dogs breeder had been telling me to try raw for so long, all her dogs are on it, and my dog
Trainer told me he had another client with same issues and that raw solved it. So far his skin is almost normal... Just trying to get through the transition


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## Carlita05 (Aug 17, 2012)

DaneMama said:


> Can you pinpoint what causes the episodes of cannon butt?
> 
> How often is this happening?
> 
> Is it quick to resolve or does it take days to get them back on track?


I cannot pinpoint what causes it. I try to be so consistent With them everyday that I don't know what makes them get it. I make sure there is no skin, fat or organs on the meats. I also re ordered all my chicken to make sure it's not enhanced. It happens at least once a week, sometimes twice. I would say it takes like 48 hours to see normal stool again.. But it's never just been like one episode of diarrhea and then back
To normal.


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## Carlita05 (Aug 17, 2012)

CoverTune said:


> Breathe. My boy George had a ROUGH transition as well.. I was on here daily with questions and concerns, and he also lost a lot of weight, ribs showing, hips and spine starting to poke out. I was pretty worried, but in time, we made the transition, and the weight came back no problem.


Thank you Stacey. I am on here often asking questions and looking for support. I appreciate your comment...


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## mheath0429 (Sep 8, 2012)

Carlita05 said:


> I cannot pinpoint what causes it. I try to be so consistent With them everyday that I don't know what makes them get it. I make sure there is no skin, fat or organs on the meats. I also re ordered all my chicken to make sure it's not enhanced. It happens at least once a week, sometimes twice. I would say it takes like 48 hours to see normal stool again.. But it's never just been like one episode of diarrhea and then back
> To normal.


Please try turkey. This sounds like the chicken intolerance my female has. She reacted to kibble in a similar way too. That is why we switched to raw.


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## Carlita05 (Aug 17, 2012)

SaharaNight Boxers said:


> What percentage of their weight are you feeding?


Less than 2 percent... On a different thread I was told to try giving them less to eat in order to firm up the stools. We calculated it based on Their initial weight of around 120lbs... And it was under 2 lbs a day each


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## Carlita05 (Aug 17, 2012)

Liz said:


> Carlita,
> 
> Could you please post some pictures so we can see how serious the weight loss is. There is always some weight loss because of chicken being a lower calorie meat. There are some using you to instigate but there are several of us waiting to help. Danes are one of the breeds that can be very sensitive in digestion so don't despair.


I will take some photos tomorrow to show you guys. I have to figure out how to upload them on here. I am still reading through all the threads and I want to say that I'm NOT starving my dogs!! Please... I just want help. They eat twice a day and I treat midday (usually a chicken back and or some yogurt for probiotics). I also make sure they drink water. They are not emaciated or anything - just losing enough weight that I can notice their ribs now (versus before that you couldn't) and some vertebrae are starting to become visible. I will take photos tomorrow.... I don't want to give up on raw. I just want to get transitioned so I can eventually get to cow meat and organs and all.


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## Carlita05 (Aug 17, 2012)

mheath0429 said:


> Wow this forum never ceases to amaze me. Are people always attacking each other?
> 
> I think it is safe to say we will not be able to help until we hear from the OP.
> 
> ...


I have heard good things about coconut oil (for humans and recently read up on it for dogs). But I read that I should hold off on it u til they are doing well on raw ecause it also causes detox. So I did t want to put another detox factor into the mix at the moment! But I have it handy on the kitchen counter waiting


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

Carlita, 

has anything else been going on? Vaccinations, topicals, yard maintenance (with chemicals) anything out of the ordinary? Also have they been checked for worms or giardia? It might be worth taking a stool sample in just to be sure. I also think going to turkey necks might be a better option. I would still like to see pictures because their bodies do change quite a bit on raw. My collies who I thought were slender lost weight but added muscle - my oldest female was about 55 pounds her whole adult life and looked nice but on raw she dropped to 47 pounds and then added muscle, she now looks fantastic. 

I am hoping some of the other Dane owners can chime in and give you some more support. Hang in there -


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## mheath0429 (Sep 8, 2012)

I have close friends with danes and shepards who found that adding the supplements really held digestion. She claims the best addition was probiotics. Firmed hers right up. 

I would feed more too little or too much could causiarrhea. If they are getting the right amount it should firm them up. Try a turkey neck and see what happens. Sorry for typos. On phone.


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## Carlita05 (Aug 17, 2012)

bluebo said:


> I'm not trying to discourage the OP, I am simply trying to tell her that it is ok if she doesn't want to continue on this diet. One of the oldest dogs was on a vegan diet (I don't advocate vegan either) but it shows that dogs are resillient and can thrive on almost any diet.
> Here's an article on Bramble -- (keep in mind that I don't agree with everything in the article but more that I am giving the story about Bramble) Vegetarian Dog Lives 189 Years | Frederic Patenaude Raw Foods Diet


Thank you. But unfortunately kibble doesn't work for us. Causes allergic reactions AND diarrea as well. All different types of kibble. All different flavors of it. even with supplements added in (salmon oil, powdered probiotics, and canine vitamins). The only kibble that remotely worked was science diet WD that's for gastro intestinal issues and overweight dogs. Which means my dog couldn't gain any weight from it due to such low protein levels. And for a growing dane that was just not an option. And yes, he was skinnier than he is now, at one point, on kibble.


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## Carlita05 (Aug 17, 2012)

mheath0429 said:


> Please try turkey. This sounds like the chicken intolerance my female has. She reacted to kibble in a similar way too. That is why we switched to raw.


I plan on ordering the turkey neck and wings on Tuesday!!


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

Carlita - I don't know how your turkey come but our necks our skinless. I would really just stick with the necks for now because the wings have a lot of skin and fat that is really hard to get off whereas the necks are bony but skinless so easier to feed and later you can add plain meat to a neck to up the ratio of meat to bone. I never feed wings even though mine can handle it. They often get necks or drumsticks but I would avoid those for your guys just because of the tummy issues for now.


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## Carlita05 (Aug 17, 2012)

Liz said:


> Carlita,
> 
> has anything else been going on? Vaccinations, topicals, yard maintenance (with chemicals) anything out of the ordinary? Also have they been checked for worms or giardia? It might be worth taking a stool sample in just to be sure. I also think going to turkey necks might be a better option. I would still like to see pictures because their bodies do change quite a bit on raw. My collies who I thought were slender lost weight but added muscle - my oldest female was about 55 pounds her whole adult life and looked nice but on raw she dropped to 47 pounds and then added muscle, she now looks fantastic.
> 
> I am hoping some of the other Dane owners can chime in and give you some more support. Hang in there -


Liz,
No to everything except the pesticides. We had our pesticide guy come out last week. I do not allow the dogs out for hours after they spray, BUT, that is one thing out of the norm now that you ask.

I have had them checked for parasites many times beside diarrea had been an issue in this household even on kibble. But I will take the suggestion and double check. It can't hurt!!

I also might not have realized that instead of muscle (what I thought was muscle) that they had fat on their bodies instead. And maybe they are just losing that. I will definitely post photos tomorrow. They are both sleeping now and will never get out of bed for me. I do know that pretty quickly into raw, my female dane was starting to look less bloated. But she is still much more muscular than him. He is my main concern.


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## Carlita05 (Aug 17, 2012)

Liz said:


> Carlita - I don't know how your turkey come but our necks our skinless. I would really just stick with the necks for now because the wings have a lot of skin and fat that is really hard to get off whereas the necks are bony but skinless so easier to feed and later you can add plain meat to a neck to up the ratio of meat to bone. I never feed wings even though mine can handle it. They often get necks or drumsticks but I would avoid those for your guys just because of the tummy issues for now.


Would I be trying turkey necks with chicken quarters? Or what do you suggest? Just necks only
Is an option?? I've never even seen a turkey neck before so I don't know what
I'm talking about here honestly. But I want to make sure I order enough on Tuesday if I'm going to be trying just necks.


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## mheath0429 (Sep 8, 2012)

Carlita05 said:


> Would I be trying turkey necks with chicken quarters? Or what do you suggest? Just necks only
> Is an option?? I've never even seen a turkey neck before so I don't know what
> I'm talking about here honestly. But I want to make sure I order enough on Tuesday if I'm going to be trying just necks.


Necks are pretty big. I feed necks and hearts or gizzards. You could even do some turkey breast meat if its available by you. Cut the chicken out and see what happens. I am almost willing to bet the turkey will solve the problem


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

Carlita - 

I would order just Tom Turkey necks - these usually weigh almost a pound so you could feed one in the morning and one for dinner. I would as to be sure they are skinless and I would only feed turkey. That way you will know if they have a sensitivity to chicken. 

I did not realize how old they were. The boy is also about a year old? This is a horrific time for collies - they are near impossible to keep any weight on from 1-2 years old then they really start filling in. I will wait for pics though.

You can also stop at a vitamin store and purchase some Grapefruit Seed Extract - you can add this to their water as it is a good preventative for tummy bugs and if they do have something it can be used to eradicate many more critters in their gut. It is something nice to have on hand. It runs less that $10 and is made by Nutribiotics.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

My youngest Dane is almost a year old and she's super skinny and eats probably 5 pounds per day. Like Liz said this is a hat age to keep weight on a lot of dogs. An honestly at this age it's better for them to be ribby so there isn't added weight bearing on their growing joints. 

I would feed one turkey neck by itself and see how things go. If all goes well after 12 or more hours go ahead with a second one. 

How anxious are your dogs? Sometimes stress causes digestive issues.


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## Carlita05 (Aug 17, 2012)

DaneMama said:


> My youngest Dane is almost a year old and she's super skinny and eats probably 5 pounds per day. Like Liz said this is a hat age to keep weight on a lot of dogs. An honestly at this age it's better for them to be ribby so there isn't added weight bearing on their growing joints.
> 
> I would feed one turkey neck by itself and see how things go. If all goes well after 12 or more hours go ahead with a second one.
> 
> How anxious are your dogs? Sometimes stress causes digestive issues.



OK.. I will make sure to try JUST the turkey and see how we do. And skinless. And not enhanced. My dogs are not anxious at all. My female (she is a rescue so I am not 100% sure she is a year old, perhaps she is a little bit older) but she likes to lay around most of the day. She is the couch potato. My male is more playful. He likes to play around with toys or he does laps around the yard like once a day. But other than that he likes to hang out as well and just be goofy. They are not overly active (which was why in another post I asked if it was normal that they stopped being so active and playful lol).

I was able to snap some quick photos after their breakfast... But they would not really stand still long enough... They dont look so bad in these photos, but as you can see, the grey female has just about all her ribs showing now (before you could not see any) but she is still very muscular in the legs ... When she starts to walk and such you can see the vertebrae starting to show. 

The white male is hard to see in photos because of his color... but all his ribs show and he does not have much muscle on his body at all. But I do realize he is only 13 months old and has alot more time left to gain weight and much more growth. But he has lost a good amount of weight which took me forever to put on him! But if you guys think this is OK then I will trust you guys and carry on... My vet does not agree with a raw diet so he is obviously telling me that I need to put weight on the dog...


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## Herzo (Feb 5, 2011)

Carlita05 said:


> I will take some photos tomorrow to show you guys. I have to figure out how to upload them on here. I am still reading through all the threads and I want to say that I'm NOT starving my dogs!! Please... I just want help. They eat twice a day and I treat midday (usually a chicken back and or some yogurt for probiotics). I also make sure they drink water. They are not emaciated or anything - just losing enough weight that I can notice their ribs now (versus before that you couldn't) and some vertebrae are starting to become visible. I will take photos tomorrow.... I don't want to give up on raw. I just want to get transitioned so I can eventually get to cow meat and organs and all.


Could it be the yogurt, I think some dogs don't do good with dairy. Can you get a good powder probiotic? I can't remember but Liz and re recommend one. She will probably chime in here.

They don't really look that bad and I know you say they look worse in person. Hope you get it worked out and I have high hopes you will.


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## BearMurphy (Feb 29, 2012)

Herzo said:


> Could it be the yogurt, I think some dogs don't do good with dairy. Can you get a good powder probiotic? I can't remember but Liz and re recommend one. She will probably chime in here.
> 
> They don't really look that bad and I know you say they look worse in person. Hope you get it worked out and I have high hopes you will.


i agree with stopping yogurt. i don't believe in giving dogs dairy as it doesn't sit well with mine and i don't believe it has enough probiotics compared to a power/pill form to help with digestion.

my dog who was just over 2 years old was pretty skinny during the transition to raw before i added fat back in and upped his food. i wouldn't worry yet but follow liz and DaneMama's advice exactly and hopefully it can turn things around for your pups


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Looking at your pictures...your dogs look great. All four of my Danes are ribby and I like them that way. You should be able to see all their ribs as well as all the defined muscles around them. Most Danes I see are overweight and you cant see any ribs at all...not good for giant breed dogs.


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## CoverTune (Dec 20, 2011)

I don't think they look too bad at all.. your boy does look a bit thin, but not in a state that I would be overly worried about to be honest. Good on you for sticking with this, it will come together, I promise.. and it even gets fun when you get to the point where you start picking out all kinds of different meats to try them with.

I hope the turkey necks will work well for you!


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## Carlita05 (Aug 17, 2012)

Ok thank you everyone. I will stop the yogurt. I have powder probiotics but what should I give
It to them with?? 

I hope the turkey does the trick!! I trust everyone's judgement that they are not too thin. I also don't really want fat Danes haha. Just as healthy as possible! 

Can I ask one more question... If anyone here treats .. What do you give???? Can you still give non raw treats While on a raw diet? Or what about dehydrated meats??? Any suggestions for treats will be very appreciated.


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## mheath0429 (Sep 8, 2012)

I make my own jerky with the oven. Set it on 300 and bake turkey until its got a jerky consistency. 

I also use sweet potato chips 


Also, put the powder on top or mix it in some sugar free peanut butter.


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

Carlita, Please give them nothing but the turkey necks. The probiotic we use when needed is Primal Defense Ultra. You can actually just mix it in their water. I really, really would avoid giving anything else at all. I really would love to see these guys getting over tummy troubles. 

So for the next few weeks absolutely nothing but their turkey neck meals. Do one in the a.m. and if they have done well give another 10-12 hours later. If they had tummy issues you can give a liver broth - just put water to almost boiling and drop a piece of liver in and cook for 5-6 minutes until the bleeding stops. Freeze or dehydrate the liver and feed the broth with their probitoic. If their tummy is upset just water will cause more upset where the broth will soothe it. 

Meals and probiotics - no treats, dairy, no biscuits, nothing but broth , turkey necks and probiotic. O.K.?

Your pups are thin but not scary skinny. If you stick to just the meat they should transition and you will be feeding them anything you want before you know it.


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## Carlita05 (Aug 17, 2012)

Liz said:


> Carlita, Please give them nothing but the turkey necks. The probiotic we use when needed is Primal Defense Ultra. You can actually just mix it in their water. I really, really would avoid giving anything else at all. I really would love to see these guys getting over tummy troubles.
> 
> So for the next few weeks absolutely nothing but their turkey neck meals. Do one in the a.m. and if they have done well give another 10-12 hours later. If they had tummy issues you can give a liver broth - just put water to almost boiling and drop a piece of liver in and cook for 5-6 minutes until the bleeding stops. Freeze or dehydrate the liver and feed the broth with their probitoic. If their tummy is upset just water will cause more upset where the broth will soothe it.
> 
> ...



I will do that! Thank you SO much!!!


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## pogo (Aug 28, 2011)

I've nothing else to add food wise but definitely try feeding just turkey and see how they far.

I did want to say that i think your guys look great and definitely not to skinny for _my_ liking anyway!


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## InkedMarie (Sep 9, 2011)

I don't feed raw so I haven't commented but just wanted to say that they look better than I anticipated but then again, I prefer my dogs to be leaner than most people like to see.


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

I would highly suggest doing exactly how Liz stated!:thumb:

And as for how they look, IMO, they look REALLY good! You will see more muscling as you continue on your raw journey, and as they get older, but I would FAR rather see them at this weight then having too much!!:wink:


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## xchairity_casex (Oct 8, 2011)

necks are GREAT to start with IMO they are skinless and fatless easy to prepare and full of bones.


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## Coffee (Sep 3, 2012)

I just wanted to say... yes, they're a bit thin but they're not too bad :smile: I'd rather see them like that than overweight.

Liz's advice is excellent and I have nothing further to add to that... only to say that yes, I feed non-raw treats to Alfie.. chopped up sausages and hotdogs and <gasp> even some shop bought treats too :wink: but I'd advise you not to feed any of those at the moment until things have settled down a bit.

Best of luck, hope it all sorts itself out soon.


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## KittyKat (Feb 11, 2011)

They look great to me. I have sighthounds so most dogs look fat to me


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## Carlita05 (Aug 17, 2012)

KittyKat said:


> They look great to me. I have sighthounds so most dogs look fat to me



Thank you everyone for your advice!! You have no idea how much it means to me!! Especially since no one in my area (that I know of) feeds raw... so I have to rely on you guys for support 

I am going to make my own dog treats once they get settled to raw.... I am thinking of getting a dehydrator and just making sweet potato chips for them and jerky

I have another question or two for you guys.... Do any of you guys give raw veggies/greens with their raw meat to your dogs? I have heard some people do this.... and my trainer also said that a good treat to give them during a hot day is a piece of frozen broccoli... just wondering if this sounds safe or if you shouldnt mix with raw food? 

AND last but not least... my dane's breeder also throws in a whole raw egg once a week or so.... does anyone else do this? Know about this? I know we are not ready for this yet... but I was just curious about this! 

Thanks


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## Tracy (Aug 11, 2012)

I feed vegetables a couple of times a week. I put them through the blender and will feed with tripe or yoghurt or minced chicken frames or whatever I've got in. Mine love their veg as long as it's mixed through with something else. I buy whatevers going cheap. I like to put garlic and ginger in the mix too if I've got it in. I don't really think about it too much to be honest. Oh and I add the odd egg if I have any in,(I love eggs, so we run out pretty quick).
My dogs are well used to getting vegetables, so they have no problems with it. 
I really hope the turkey necks work for you, we are moving on to turkey necks also. Before long you'll be feeding all sorts. Good luck.:smile:


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## kathylcsw (Jul 31, 2011)

My dogs get an egg a week. I would give it more often but there are so small that an egg is almost 1/2 of their meals. I do think it is good to give them eggs because it is a great source of protein and is good for their skin and coat.


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## pogo (Aug 28, 2011)

I give whole eggs with shell about 3 times a week, but i know some on here feed at least 1 egg a day


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

Carlita,

I have experimented with vegetables and really found no benefit. Whatever I was trying to supplement with veg/fruit I was able to more easily supplemented with meat or a protein based food. That said if my dogs eat some grass or chomp on some blackberries they find by the road i don't really care. 

Here are foods my dogs eat after being totally transitioned - 
Chicken, Turkey, Quail, Pork, Beef, Lamb, Sardine, Venison, Rabbit, Goat, Duck, eggs, tripe (lovetripe), Bison and elk, coconut oil (they do not do well with fish oil) local raw honey if needed. 

Here are common things they do not get - veg, fruit, grains, dairy of any kind, processed treats.

For treats - dehydrated turkey, chicken, pork or beef heart (they adore this) dehydrated liver, jerky from any meat. I do not give sweet potatoes. we really strive for a species appropriate diet because it is beneficial for their health and less taxing on the gut to digest.

Probiotics - when necessary we give Primal Defense Ultra (in case of illness, recovery from surgery, etc) as a dietary supplement we use green tripe.


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## CoverTune (Dec 20, 2011)

Liz, can I ask what you give honey for?

I give my boy George some veggies as treats because he LOVES them (he goes nuts for celery), but definitely not because I think he needs it in his diet.


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

If I have an allergic dog some in for pet sitting or rescue raw local honey can help them build immunity to local allergens.  I also keep it for healing purposes as it is great for minor cuts, burns and mouth injuries. 

It has other holistic properties but these are the most common uses around my house. Some people feed a teaspoon daily for these reasons. I use it only on an as needed basis.


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## Carlita05 (Aug 17, 2012)

Liz said:


> If I have an allergic dog some in for pet sitting or rescue raw local honey can help them build immunity to local allergens.  I also keep it for healing purposes as it is great for minor cuts, burns and mouth injuries.
> 
> It has other holistic properties but these are the most common uses around my house. Some people feed a teaspoon daily for these reasons. I use it only on an as needed basis.



Got it! Thank you! I like the whole egg idea but not just yet... Once I am really in the raw scene and they can handle all proteins and such, I will consider the egg.. I have a small dog with allergies and she gets local honey to help build her immune system... I found that it has worked better than the antibiotics and other stuff the vet has tried on her. But u have to keep giving it daily or it just wont work. 

I also have Manuka honey at the house for skin lesions, ulcers, etc... I even use it myself if I get a pimple! It is quite amazing!!! But if you consider buying it and trying it for skin issues, it has to be 16+ active


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## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

bluebo said:


> Im sure she said "my dogs have lost a LOT of weight". I'm sure she also said- "almost constant cannon butt". These things may be the norm for raw feeders but it isn't the norm.
> As for "dog food not being fed until the early 1900's" well since dogs became domesticated man has been feeding an array of items. A lot if carbohydrates and vegetables were fed to the early domesticated dog and (obviously) they have survived thus far. I don't want to get into a debate but I will say that the "evidence" being touted by raw feeders IS debatable.
> The OP still hasnt answered the question? Do any of you know why she chose to switch her dogs onto a raw diet?


No. Constant cannon butt is NOT normal for raw feeders.


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## Carlita05 (Aug 17, 2012)

Dude and Bucks Mamma said:


> No. Constant cannon butt is NOT normal for raw feeders.


We have not had much luck so far with the turkey necks... hopefully in a couple more days their stool starts to firm up.... my female has been throwing up now... I have only been feeding one neck in the morning and one neck at night...


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

When is your female throwing up? And what is she throwing up? 

Stool...what is going on? 

Are you feeding them both the same thing?


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## lauren43 (Feb 6, 2011)

What exactly does their stOol look like? Perhaps some pics may be necessary...


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## Carlita05 (Aug 17, 2012)

lauren43 said:


> What exactly does their stOol look like? Perhaps some pics may be necessary...


Female throwing up right after she eats the turkey neck. Its not regurgitation though, its like yellow gooey fluid with pieces of the turkey neck in it.. So I am thinking maybe the time between meals was too long? Maybe the acid in her stomach was building up? Today i tried giving them a neck in the middle of the day and no vomiting occurred.

I am feeding both the same thing. ONLY skinless turkey necks. The stool has been changing... This morning she had a solid stool with diarrhea towards the end, and mucus as well. My male still has lose stool, nothing solid yet.


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## Carlita05 (Aug 17, 2012)

So I was wondering what everyone thought about treating midday with satin balls? To help gain some weight? I've never had any issues with satin balls before, my dogs do fine on them, so do you guys think that would be an OK thing to do in between turkey neck meals? (My satin balls consist of raw organic ground beef, organic peanut butter, organic oats soaked in organic cream, a bottle of wheat germ, and 12 organic egg yolks). 


Also... my female is looking even thinner this week... and I know you all said that she looked fine, but I thought that if my fingers dip down in between the ribs then that I should be alarmed? Well, they are dipping down now... And her hip bones (which I have not ever seen since Ive rescued her) are now popping out too. Here are two photos...


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## mwplay (Oct 10, 2010)

Carla - 

I'm no expert, but after reading your posts, I can understand why you would be getting nervous. If this was happening to me when I first transitioned my dogs, I'd feel the same way.

Throwing this out... Maybe your dogs have sensitivity to turkey? Maybe you should move back to the chicken backs and quarters for the time being. 

What about adding a probiotic and a digestive enzyme to see if this will help them. The probiotic would build up the good flora in their gut and the digestive enzyme may help break down the fats/protein. Personally, I don't think it would do any harm right now, and may just give a little extra help with their system. If you found that it helped to firm things up and kept things down, you could at least keep the weight on and then discontinue the supplements after things have calmed down. I know many people don't use supplements, I do.

Also, in my opinion, if you've fed raw beef before in the satin balls, why not give them just the beef without any of the added ingredients. Maybe this would help them keep some weight. I would think you don't really have to "transition" them onto red meat (beef in particular) because they've already had it before. I don't think raw meat should be the only component in their diet at this point - I think you need to add a raw meaty bone (chicken back or leg quarter) + the beef.

I hope things improve for your pups.

ETA: I see a few pages back, probiotic was already suggested - sorry I missed that. So, if you have already added the probiotic, I would still consider the digestive enzyme.


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## GoingPostal (Sep 5, 2011)

I think adding satin balls would probably lead to worse stool, I agree if you want to try do just beef, not all the other stuff. How loose is loose for the stool? Sounds like your female is doing ok, I just switched my younger girl and she has some mucus in her stool although it is fully formed. For the vomiting, maybe she's not chewing it well enough or maybe the amount of bone is bothering her, I have heard some people add ACV for the latter, I tried it for a short while on my older girl when she started puking sometimes but it wasn't right after she ate, it was mornings after and I think just bile building up. She is getting thin, but you can put weight back on if she continues to do better on it.


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## Tracy (Aug 11, 2012)

Oh dear, she does look thin. Poor you. I just wanted to give you some moral support, I've no idea what to suggest, as I'm no expert, although I would be tempted to try a protein that they're used to, even if it's ground, just to get the weight back up. My thoughts would be, get the weight back up and start from scratch. What were they eating when they're weight was ok?
Codie's nowhere near as thin as your girl, but I would even feed my nature diet to get weight back up. I've not needed to do that, as he did eat his chicken today, so I'm not too worried. I'll keep on the chicken until he really loves it, then I'll switch to turkey. 
If he lost loads of weight though, I'd definately give him Nature Diet or mince his chickens to get his weight back up.
Good luck.


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

You cant really tell how thin a dog is when the shot is taken laying down. Really needs to be a conformation style shot from the side and one from above if possible. I have 4 out of my 5 dogs(the 5th is quite...hairy) and they all look quite thin when laying just right.

I dont think she looks that bad, especially for the fact that she is laying down.
The stools sound pretty normal, IME, as well.

And I agree with goingpostal...I wouldnt suggest the satin balls at all.


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## lauren43 (Feb 6, 2011)

Honestly in that picture she doesn't look that bad to me. How long have you been on turkey? I would say no to the satin balls as well. The only suggestion I have is if you've given the turkey necks some time (3-4 weeks)? Perhaps you could try pork ribs instead or a different protein with high bone content...Her poop sounds ok to me, even my dog who has been raw fed for nearly his whole life has poos like that. 

I don't think a probiotic is a bad idea at this point.


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## Tracy (Aug 11, 2012)

I don't know anything about photos, but she does sound really worried about her dog's weight.


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

Tracy said:


> I don't know anything about photos, but she does sound really worried about her dog's weight.


Yes, but what people dont understand, and what many of us are trying to say is that a lot of people are use to seeing(including 90%+ of people your going to meet in the out side world) is over weight dogs, especially large/X-Large breeds. 
Seeing some rib/hip bone isnt a bad thing, and I dont think that the photos previously shown(in post 84 and before) show dogs that are extreamly underweight...just dogs that could stand to gain a few pounds...which will come as they transition further and further into raw!:wink:


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## lauren43 (Feb 6, 2011)

I know she's worried about her dogs weight but her dogs are young 1 year olds. Between 1 and 2 my dog would not put on weight, I fed him over 3% of his body weight and he didn't gain an oz. now that he's over 2 years he's put the weight back on. This is a very awkward time for some dogs and some dogs have the most amazing metabolism..she is thin but not frighteningly so, I think if she can get through the transition and to red meats (and even just more food) she will put on the lbs, it may take time depending on her metabolism but she will gain her weight back.


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

lauren43 said:


> I know she's worried about her dogs weight but her dogs are young 1 years olds. Between 1 and 2 my dog would not put on weight, I fed him over 3% of his body weight and he didn't gain an oz. now that he's over 2 years he's put the we


Oh yes, the age is a HUGE factor!
Even my 2 totally transitioned to raw pups are difficult to keep weight on because of their age!
Keeva is 10.5 months old should end up weighing about 40lbs, she is currently eating around 4lbs a day....thats 10% of her Projected Adult Weight!!!:wacko: 
Rhett is 19 months and should end up weighing about 60lbs, he is currently eating around 5pounds a day....that is around 8.5% of his Projected Adult Weight!

Puppies are crazy...and the teen age stage, which will probably last longer for the OP then for those of us without X-large breeds of dogs, is a scary time...and, most of the time, calls for a heck of a lot more food then what you would ever think!

HOWEVER..this amount of food cant be thrown at them in the beginning....WAY too risky for digestive upsets and isnt good for the stress of the gut, the dog or the owner, so some weight loss is to be expected.


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## Tracy (Aug 11, 2012)

Good to know. I'm really new to raw (2nd time round for me). I've not had any major issues this time thank goodness.


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## lauren43 (Feb 6, 2011)

I also want to say that your girl is one good looking Great Dane, I just want to squish her adorable face!!


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## Carlita05 (Aug 17, 2012)

lauren43 said:


> I also want to say that your girl is one good looking Great Dane, I just want to squish her adorable face!!


Thank you!! She was an owner surrender back in June and I never adopted her out!  OK - so NO GO on the satin balls is the majority consensus. I will not do satin balls. I am doing 3 turkey necks a day which has helped so far with the vomiting, and I think it is helping their stomach continue to digest throughout the day. I do add FortiFlora probiotics once a day. 

Their stool changed today. My male still has runny poop - almost like a pudding consistency (that sounded gross!!) but today my female pooped solid and in between her solid stool there was almost grainy/sandy like poop as well. It falls apart once it hits the ground. 

As far as chicken backs and chicken quarters go. . . I believe someone suggested going back to that... I went onto turkey necks because we had been doing chicken backs and quarters for almost a month now with no solid stools. So I was told maybe they have a sensitivity to chicken and to try turkey necks now. 

I am honestly scared to try raw beef at this moment... just because I have not done turkey necks long enough to see if they can get used to it. And adding a new protein in will just make it harder for me to see what is upsetting their stomachs. Let me ask you guys this though... if the turkey necks end up firming up their stool - will they gain weight from it at all? And how long should I feed them this before I move onto pork (according to RPM website) or whichever other protein is next to be introduced? 

thank you all sooooooooooooooo much!!! from the bottom of my <3 i appreciate everyone's opinion and support. I was just so worried because when I adopted her, she was at LEAST 10 lbs heavier.. and once I switched her to raw, she just continues to lose weight, and you are all right, i am NOT used to seeing thin dogs. I just want to make sure I am not doing any harm here since its my first time on raw.


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

I would suggest primal defense ultra probiotics far before Purina's fortiflora stuff!:thumb:

If the 3rd turkey neck is working then great!

I would NOT suggest going with beef right now...keep on the track that you are doing!
It will take quite a few days of good stools before you add in anything else, and that will be SLOWLY adding in some boneless turkey before ever adding in red meats...so just keep doing what your doing...and we will be here for you!!:thumb:


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## Tracy (Aug 11, 2012)

Good luck.:smile:


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

Carlita that sounds like improvement on the stool issues. Give them time and they will adapt. I am glad three necks is working. Every dog is different so don't be afraid to experiment a little. I would go with Primal Defense Ultra as it is probably one of the best probiotics out there. They do sound like they are doing better - your boy sounds just a tad more sensitive than the girl so be patient. You are doing great.


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## GoingPostal (Sep 5, 2011)

Generally you want to wait until you have at least a week of solid stool before adding a new protein. Your female might need some boneless turkey added in soon if she's having dry poops, turkey necks are very boney. Just have to watch your dog and see how it goes, once she's handling some boneless turkey with the necks add in a small amount of pork and work your way up to larger amounts. Red meat usually is good for fattening up. I would go turkey, pork and then maybe try adding a little chicken in again and see if it still causes problems. 

As far as their weight, go look up the worlds tallest Dane, how do they look compared to him? That dog is too thin, although it may be due to his structure, excess weight would probably cause issues.


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## Carlita05 (Aug 17, 2012)

GoingPostal said:


> Generally you want to wait until you have at least a week of solid stool before adding a new protein. Your female might need some boneless turkey added in soon if she's having dry poops, turkey necks are very boney. Just have to watch your dog and see how it goes, once she's handling some boneless turkey with the necks add in a small amount of pork and work your way up to larger amounts. Red meat usually is good for fattening up. I would go turkey, pork and then maybe try adding a little chicken in again and see if it still causes problems.
> 
> As far as their weight, go look up the worlds tallest Dane, how do they look compared to him? That dog is too thin, although it may be due to his structure, excess weight would probably cause issues.


Ok - I ordered the primal defense probiotics! Thank you for the suggestion... 

I saw the tallest dane the other day actually and he is WAY too thin. But I think he has other issues with gaining weight because of his conformation. My dogs dont look like him at all... if they did I would be FREAKING out lol ... At the moment, the only time you see all their vertebraes popping out is when they are laying down or in action. Which someone else mentioned that I cant consider it into the equation. So I will just keep an eye on them and keep coming back to you guys for reassurance!


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Carlita05 said:


> Ok - I ordered the primal defense probiotics! Thank you for the suggestion...
> 
> I saw the tallest dane the other day actually and he is WAY too thin. But I think he has other issues with gaining weight because of his conformation. My dogs dont look like him at all... if they did I would be FREAKING out lol ... At the moment, the only time you see all their vertebraes popping out is when they are laying down or in action. Which someone else mentioned that I cant consider it into the equation. So I will just keep an eye on them and keep coming back to you guys for reassurance!


Another reason why Danes get tall and skinny is if they're spayed/neutered too young. If done before 12-24 months their growth plates don't close appropriately making them super tall and lanky. Which is why its highly suggested to wait to fix giant breed dogs.


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## Boxers&Pom's Mom (Jan 17, 2011)

cassie were really overweight before I started feeding her the Raw Prey Model. She started loosing weight really fast and during two different occasions that I took her to the vet for her Senior checkout, the vet wants to do blood work and other test thinking that she may have something else. I told him, that I have her in raw and I was feeding her the amount for a 55 lbs dog and she were like 75lbs. All the test came back normal and now she is just 55 lbs and not loosing any more weight as I predicted. 
I learn here to increase bone consuming if they have diarrhea. So far, so good. I am very happy that I took this direction and I am feeding my dogs raw.


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## Carlita05 (Aug 17, 2012)

DaneMama said:


> Another reason why Danes get tall and skinny is if they're spayed/neutered too young. If done before 12-24 months their growth plates don't close appropriately making them super tall and lanky. Which is why its highly suggested to wait to fix giant breed dogs.



I got some solid stool for consecutive days on turkey necks!!!! YAY!!! 

BUT of course... I have another issue now. They are eating their own and each other's poop!! I remember being told that this means they are not getting enough nutrients.... Any suggestions on what to do?! I would appreciate any and all tips on how to stop this... because I dont catch them early enough all the time. 

Also ... I am going to keep them on turkey necks for a couple of weeks since we just started to finally have consistent firm stool.... but is it okay if I start to introduce a pork rib here and there? Or what do you guys suggest? How do you suggest I introduce a new protein SLOWLY? I have been giving them a midday snack of chicken back or a leg or a thigh just to keep their digestion going and to keep their system used to both proteins... so far no issues. 

Thanks again Everyone!! 

Carla


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Typically poo eating doesn't mean nutritional deficiency, and honestly nutritional deficiency takes months to set in not a week. Usually it's behavioral or for whatever odd reason they like the taste...yuck. I would just immediately pick up after they go poo

I would keep them on turkey necks exclusively for two solid weeks of consistent solid stools. Once you've reached that point you could slowly add in pork ribs. 

Glad to here they're having solid stools! Keep up the good work!


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

Mine never ate dog poop, but we did have a problem with them eating horse poop. They quit eating it completly after switching to raw. 

But, if it's become a habit, you may have a time stopping them. You can try Forbid. Its a supplement to make poop taste nasty. It dang sure works! We used it years ago before feeding raw and they wouldn't touch the poop.


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## Carlita05 (Aug 17, 2012)

I knew about Forbid but it has a bad chemical in it that I was told to stay away from. If you are interested in the name of it, let me know and I can go to the other forum and get it for you. 

I am a member of a great dane group on facebook and a breeder that has been raw feeding for 12 years told me to give them 3-4 chunks of fresh pineapple to stop the poop eating. Been doing that... so far so good! Pineapple is a natural tenderizer so it denatures the left over protein in their poo. 

Natalie... here is a photo of my female, still losing weight... can you tell me if she is still looking okay to you?


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

She's definitely thin but not so thin I'm worried about her. She's still making the transition over completely, so at this point I wouldn't worry. 

Is she still having loose stool? How much are you giving her per day?


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## Carlita05 (Aug 17, 2012)

DaneMama said:


> She's definitely thin but not so thin I'm worried about her. She's still making the transition over completely, so at this point I wouldn't worry.
> 
> Is she still having loose stool? How much are you giving her per day?



She was getting a turkey neck for breakfast, a chicken back or leg for midday treat, and then another turkey neck for dinner. But i found some really small turkey necks in this last batch of bulk I purchased, so I started to do a small turkey neck as a midday snack to cut out the chicken completely. 

Her stool is mixed. Sometimes its firm, and even grainy/crumb like and other times its diarrhea. For example this morning she had severe diarrhea in the house twice, and then this evening she had a firm solid poop.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Is that all she's getting throughout the day? Nothing other than the chicken and turkey?


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## Carlita05 (Aug 17, 2012)

DaneMama said:


> Is that all she's getting throughout the day? Nothing other than the chicken and turkey?


Nothing else. At all! I fight her to not sneak in somewhere and grab something because she literally always is trying to get food... I have two dachshunds who are on kibble and she sees ONE piece of kibble and goes through hoops to find a way to get it.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Carlita05 said:


> Nothing else. At all! I fight her to not sneak in somewhere and grab something because she literally always is trying to get food... I have two dachshunds who are on kibble and she sees ONE piece of kibble and goes through hoops to find a way to get it.


My Danes are kibble hounds as well.....I think its the equivalent to "junk food" for humans but for them. I use kibble as training treats because they love it so much LOL

I would stick with what you're doing. I think in time her body will adjust to eating raw regularly and the fluctuations in stool you're seeing is her body's way of adjusting. 

Persistence and patience is really what wins this battle. If she's doing well in a week, consistent solid stools, you could try increasing the amount of boneless chicken or turkey you add to a meal. Small quantities though, like the size of an walnut extra to her morning turkey neck and dinner.


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## Carlita05 (Aug 17, 2012)

DaneMama said:


> My Danes are kibble hounds as well.....I think its the equivalent to "junk food" for humans but for them. I use kibble as training treats because they love it so much LOL
> 
> I would stick with what you're doing. I think in time her body will adjust to eating raw regularly and the fluctuations in stool you're seeing is her body's way of adjusting.
> 
> Persistence and patience is really what wins this battle. If she's doing well in a week, consistent solid stools, you could try increasing the amount of boneless chicken or turkey you add to a meal. Small quantities though, like the size of an walnut extra to her morning turkey neck and dinner.



Hey Natalie

Soooo I am about to run out of turkey necks and wont be able to order any until Tuesday. I dont want the dogs to get diarrhea again from the chicken backs/quarters.. Do you think If I can find chicken necks to hold us over, that it will give us a better response? Or do you think it will make no difference since we are changing proteins?


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Carlita05 said:


> Hey Natalie
> 
> Soooo I am about to run out of turkey necks and wont be able to order any until Tuesday. I dont want the dogs to get diarrhea again from the chicken backs/quarters.. Do you think If I can find chicken necks to hold us over, that it will give us a better response? Or do you think it will make no difference since we are changing proteins?


Can you get chicken to feed tomorrow? If yea then start tomorrow with a small Meal of chicken and nothing else. Then the next day do turkey necks that you have left. Then another day of a small amount of chicken. 

There's a chance that now your dogs are used to digesting raw proteis and bones that they'll handle raw chicken just fine.

Just remember to trim all skin and fat off of the chicken Prior to feeding it


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