# Indoor/outdoor cats?



## Mokapi

I'm bringing this up because recently I've been frequenting the pet forum section of CL, and it seems that everyone who mentions that their cats have access to the outdoors is immediately brought under fire and told that they are inhumane idiots who shouldn't be allowed to own cats.

Personally, I find that to be hilarious and complete BS. 

My Mrowmrow has been familiar with the outdoors since he was about 4 weeks old. I kept him on a leash/harness for several months when we went outdoors, but I can't imagine NOT exposing my cat to the outside world. If something were to happen- say, our house burn down, or someone were to leave a door wide open (which we pretty much do, for the dogs)- I don't want to think about what would become of him. He's not declawed (completely irresponsible, IMO); he's vaccinated against FIV, rabies, etc.; he's microchipped and has a tag; and he's smart. Like dogs, I don't think that cats should be cooped up indoors all day. I think behavior issues can arise from it, just like in dogs. Cats need their primal instincts stimulated just like dogs do-and that's not something that can come from a stuffed mouse dipped in cat nip. It's just not. 

As a result of him being outdoors from an early age, he thrives outside and knows what he's doing. He warns us of possums and raccoons and he tends to avoid them. He can scale up trees and down trees (like a cat, duh ). He's an excellent mouser. He's happy and healthy. When I take Chip on walks around the neighborhood, Mrowmrow is right on my heels. He becomes visibly miserable when he knows he's locked indoors, and starts meowing relentlessly at the door, and clawing at it. He likes to sit on the porch during thunderstorms and watch the rain, and he'll play in it while it's sprinkling (he loves water...typical Russian blue). He doesn't stray very far and always comes when he's called.

The only thing that's starting to worry me is that two of my neighbors (the neighbors behind me, and to my left) have gotten huge dogs that they pretty much boasted were dog-aggressive. The one woman- she has a huge boxer, now- said that she brought him home from Tennessee because her brother-in-law had a huge surgery and they were afraid of the dog jumping up on him. The second looks like an akita/shepherd mix. Both of these dogs go CRAZY when our dogs go outdoors, and the akita mix isn't even fenced in. She just wanders around as she pleases. Mrowmrow is an extremely protective cat- over myself, Chip, and the house- and a few weeks ago when the neighbors first let their mix out and she jumped at our fence, Mrowmrow scared the crap out of me. He had ran outside when I did (Chip was barking up a storm and it sounded pretty vicious), and he sort of surveyed the area and then charged forward. He jumped the fence and started clawing at the dog's face and then when the dog turned around and started to run back to her yard, Mrowmrow followed her and kept attacking her legs and butt. He chased the dog back across the street and then ran back and jumped up on my shoulder and stood up there and hissed. The dog doesn't come around our fence anymore, but does go in the surrounding yards.

Yesterday and the day before that he also charged the boxer and managed to give the dog a pretty decent scratch when he stuck his muzzle over on our side of the fence. Mrowmrow stayed in our yard, just sort of scaled up the fence. I went outside and yelled at him and now whenever the dog comes outside, Mrow runs up to the boxer with Chip and the pugs and just hisses and puffs up. 

I don't think that Mrowmrow's behavior is the norm, and now that he knows he shouldn't be doing it, I don't think it's an issue. It's also not enough for me to force him to stay inside 24/7. Sorry if that sounds cruel to anyone. 

What do you guys think? Do you keep your cats strictly indoors?


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## Loki Love

My two cats are strictly indoor cats. Much safer for them and not a nuisance to the neighbourhood either. Growing up though - sure, our cats were outdoors all the time. I've learned a lot since then though.


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## Tobi

We had our cat indoors strictly as i always have, (living in the city alot of traffic) now we live in the country and Zeus has been itching to get outside everytime the door opens he would bolt so we let him out and like you said... they thrive outside, he loves it... he catches snakes, birds, mice, rats, you name it. I don't have a problem with it in the country in the city though i would be more apprehensive.


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## Mokapi

I think that's more of what I agree with- keeping a cat indoors or outdoors depending on the living situation. We live in a rural area in a very old neighborhood and the only wild animals around here are deer (which he is TERRIFIED of). If I lived in the city where getting hit by a car was a real danger, though, I'd only let him out on a harness.


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## Lisa_j

2 of our cats are indoors only, they were raised to only be indoors. The third is in/out. For safety reasons, living on a busy street I would rather he be in only however he was raised in the country and could come and go as he pleased through a kitty door. Once we moved back to our home state, he just was not happy being in all of the time. We leave him come and go as he pleases now. I hold my breath when I see him across the alley or farther away then I am comfortable with but he is just not happy inside all of the time. He became an escape artist, that is why we finally gave in to him!


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## xxshaelxx

My cats are strictly indoor kitties. Where I live, there's tons and TONS of coyotes that WILL wander right on through the neighborhoods, and they prey on cats. I've known so many neighbors who have lost cats to the coyotes, and these have been BIG, mean, intelligent cats that bull the dogs around. My cats would all LOVE to go outside and be outdoor/indoor kitties, but it's just too dangerous for them out here. Not to mention, there's a HUGE problem with black cats being stolen through October to be used as sacrifices for morons' stupid rituals. They won't even adopt out black cats in the month of October here.


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## Mokapi

xxshaelxx said:


> My cats are strictly indoor kitties. Where I live, there's tons and TONS of coyotes that WILL wander right on through the neighborhoods, and they prey on cats. I've known so many neighbors who have lost cats to the coyotes, and these have been BIG, mean, intelligent cats that bull the dogs around. My cats would all LOVE to go outside and be outdoor/indoor kitties, but it's just too dangerous for them out here. Not to mention, there's a HUGE problem with black cats being stolen through October to be used as sacrifices for morons' stupid rituals. They won't even adopt out black cats in the month of October here.


Omg...what? Rituals? Wtf? 

I've shot my share of coyotes that came through my old yard, tearing after neighbors' small dogs and cats. I don't mess with coyotes. :|


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## CorgiPaws

My kitties are strictly indoors only. It's too dangerous otherwise.
I will say if someone else's animal came after mine so aggressively, "attacking their legs and butt" I'd be pretty pissed off livid. 
Letting an AGGRESSIVE animal roam the neighborhood is INCREDIBLY irresponsible- be it a dog or cat.


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## Mokapi

PuppyPaws said:


> My kitties are strictly indoors only. It's too dangerous otherwise.
> I will say if someone else's animal came after mine so aggressively, "attacking their legs and butt" I'd be pretty pissed off livid.
> Letting an AGGRESSIVE animal roam the neighborhood is INCREDIBLY irresponsible- be it a dog or cat.


If they want to come talk to me about it, they can- huge akita mix snarling and jumping on the fence is far more dangerous than a protective cat. They won't, though. Too busy hyping up how aggressive their dog is already. Mrowmrow gets along fine with dogs that aren't already acting aggressively. We have a golden retriever that passes through every once in a while and several feral cats, and he's never had an issue.


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## CorgiPaws

Mokapi said:


> If they want to come talk to me about it, they can- huge akita mix snarling and jumping on the fence is far more dangerous than a protective cat. They won't, though. Too busy hyping up how aggressive their dog is already. Mrowmrow gets along fine with dogs that aren't already acting aggressively. We have a golden retriever that passes through every once in a while and several feral cats, and he's never had an issue.


Justify it how you will- letting an animal with aggressive tendencies roam free is irresponsible and unfair. 
If my neighbors did this, you betcha I'd have something done about it.


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## Mokapi

PuppyPaws said:


> Justify it how you will- letting an animal with aggressive tendencies roam free is irresponsible and unfair.
> If my neighbors did this, you betcha I'd have something done about it.


I do feel completely justified, actually. Though if they kept their dog in their own yard, there wouldn't be an issue. It's illegal for your dog to be off-leash (unless they're in a fenced-in area, or an area designated solely for dogs, like the Paw Park) in Indiana, so if they were to try and have "something done about it", they would be the ones in trouble. If I thought that MM was approaching these dogs in their own yards, I'd have to keep him inside. That would be a completely different story.


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## SilverBeat

MrowMrow sounds a lot like my friend's cat, FrownFrown Bukowski. He was also a Russian Blue with some personality plus. I've never been crazy about cats but I loved that boy so much.

If I had cats, they would be indoors because we live in the city, and my house is very close to the college. I would be more comfortable having an indoor/outdoor cat if we lived in a quieter neighborhood. I think it really depends on the individual situation, and it really annoys me when people make the blanket statement that indoors only is safer. I rescued a cat that I named The Juice who had been living as a stray since he was a kitten. He'd had a collar that I had to cut off of him, he couldn't breathe properly. My friend adopted The Juice and kept him indoors. He was miserable. Always trying to get outside. One day he succeeded and we haven't seen him since. But you could tell how unhappy he was, being cooped up like that. Some cats just need to roam.


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## xellil

My neighbors have a cat that is indoor/outdoor. honestly, I wish they would keep him inside. In the springtime, he eats most of the baby robins that are just getting their wings, and still on the ground. He hunts the birds i feed in my yard, and sometimes gets one even though I feed them away from bushes etc where he can hide. Cats are depleting the songbird population - many of those cats are feral, but alot are like my neighbors. I will give his cat credit, he is an excellent hunter. And here it is baby bird time, again.

The US Fish and Wildlife service says cats kill hundreds of millions of songbirds each year:
Conservation Library

It is NOT a good thing for a cat to drag home a dead robin.


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## CavePaws

My cat Liam lives indoors and out. He is outside most of the time. He is very friendly with my dogs and too brave with strange dogs but also sort of shy of people so he doesn't wander far. When I walk the block with the dogs he will follow me so I'm constantly having to throw him in the house before we take off for a walk. I just don't want him expanding his territory. :/ Liam has been outside for 5 years and learned from our older cats who all lived outside as well. We keep the garage door cracked enough for them to crawl under and this is where their litter box, food, toys, and beds are. He actually throws a complete fit if I keep him locked in the house for too long. Since he was raised this way I can't ever see making him live indoors...It would be cruel in my opinion, because he has always known the freedom to hunt and come and go as he pleases. If I could replicate the great outdoors for him and keep a stock of prey for him to hunt (yes, I mean letting him kill live animals) then I might just consider keeping him indoors. But, it would be sort of sad to keep him inside all the time and have to "replicate" hunting to give him something to do. I just can't see it being fair to take his freedom away from him at this point in his life.


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## MollyWoppy

I adopted Windy, my very first cat 11 months ago from the animal welfare society. One of the conditions of the adoption was that I sign a form saying I would keep her indoors and I signed away with all the best intentions. 
My vet however, encouraged me to let her outside, so listening to what he said, plus the fact that I couldn't get my head around a cat being inside the whole time and how boring that must be, I had a huge internal debate. I was worried about traffic, about eagles, about other dogs, about her falling in the canal, being bitten by a snake, all the different ways she could die. 
So, in the end I compromised. 
Now Windy comes with me practically everywhere. In the car, to the pet shop, to the Dr's, Walgreens, everywhere. She walks on a leash with Mollie and me. She has learnt to ride in the dog basket on the front of my bike, so we all go for 3-5 miles bike rides in the early evening. Every evening, after the bike ride, I let her go outside, in her harness, with a locator beacon so she can hunt lizards for an hour or so. I'm always out there anyway, with Mollie and 6 of the neighbourhood dogs (they all come down to my place to run and play off leash), so I keep pretty good tabs on her. 
So, in my simple way, I'd like to think I'm giving her the best of both worlds. She sure seems to be a tired. content and happy kitten.

ETA: Now I'm worrying about Windy catching Heartworm. I wrote a post which I accidentally put in the General Section, so I'd love to know what you guys with indoor/outdoor cats do!


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## Mokapi

CavePaws said:


> My cat Liam lives indoors and out. He is outside most of the time. He is very friendly with my dogs and too brave with strange dogs but also sort of shy of people so he doesn't wander far. When I walk the block with the dogs he will follow me so I'm constantly having to throw him in the house before we take off for a walk. I just don't want him expanding his territory. :/ Liam has been outside for 5 years and learned from our older cats who all lived outside as well. We keep the garage door cracked enough for them to crawl under and this is where their litter box, food, toys, and beds are. He actually throws a complete fit if I keep him locked in the house for too long. Since he was raised this way I can't ever see making him live indoors...It would be cruel in my opinion, because he has always known the freedom to hunt and come and go as he pleases. If I could replicate the great outdoors for him and keep a stock of prey for him to hunt (yes, I mean letting him kill live animals) then I might just consider keeping him indoors. But, it would be sort of sad to keep him inside all the time and have to "replicate" hunting to give him something to do. I just can't see it being fair to take his freedom away from him at this point in his life.


This is just like Mrowmrow. My dad always let him out despite me saying no, and he loved it so much that it became pointless to keep him inside. 

@Silverbeat- LOL, those names are so funny! xD Poor Juice, though ):

@Xellil- I can honestly say that Mrowmrow has only ever brought one bird home...it's usually moles, voles, and mice. He tore up a muskrat once, though. The bird he did kill was beautiful...I was so mad. It was a yellow-shafted flicker. I gave him a nice burial, but Mrowmrow has tags on that usually alert the birds before he can get too close. 

@MollyWoppy- That's so neat that she rides in your basket! MM loves car rides and loves to go on walks/wear a harness, but I seriously doubt that he'd allow me to stick him in a basket. Far too dignified...*ahem*.


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## Savage Destiny

I'm sorry, but I will never believe that having an outdoor cat is in any way even close to responsible. People try to justify it all they want, but the cold facts are that your average outdoor cat has about half the life expectancy of an indoor one. 

They can get run over, killed by a myriad of wild animals, killed be domesticated animals, ingest poison, get trapped places, so many things. And lets not forget that they destroy local wildlife, poop in people's gardens, leave paw prints and scratch marks on people's cars, and generally make people who don't' have outdoor cats suffer the consequences of other people's pets. 

I can tell you right now that if your cat attacked my dogs, you would not be so nonchalant about it after dealing with me. 

Nor do cats "need" to roam. When we adopted Monstee, she was a NIGHTMARE. Tore up carpet, tore up furniture, attacked everyone but me. I mean literally full-on attacked. We went through countless screen doors that she shredded to get outside. Put a baby gate up so she couldn't claw out the bottoms, she climbed the baby gate and first ripped a hole to get out from up there. Then we replaced THAT screen door with another that had a glass bottom, and she figured out how to climb up high enough to unlock the door and get out.

This went on for years. She escaped so many times I lost count. We couldn't open windows, leave a door cracked, use a screen door in summer, nothing. She would ALWAYS find a way to get out. I was eleven when we got her, and as I got older I learned more about cats and started using my allowance to buy more toys, enrichment items, climbers, and started interacting with her more. I made up games to stimulate her, bought a harness and leash and leash trained her, and made sure she did some sort of activity every day.

Guess what? The more I did with her and for her, the less she tried to get out. She's an incredibly smart cat, and she needed the mental stimulation. She's getting to be an old lady now (twelve and a half), and I still have to do things with her to keep her happy. But she hasn't tried to escape in YEARS. I do all the same things with my three other strictly indoor cats, and they don't try to escape either.


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## xellil

I'm not too crazy about them, that's for sure. I consider the birds part of my family, and I really don't appreciate setting up a smorgasbord for the neighborhood cats. 

We don't kill much of anything, including bugs. But if I were a different type of neighbor, his cat would have disappeared years ago. 

It's funny to me how my neighbor has said he would shoot my dog if he ever sees him in his yard around his pig (my dog has never been outside the fence without me, nor wandered the neighborhood - I don't have accidents like that) yet it's perfectly fine for his cat to come in my yard and kill whatever it finds here, whenever it pleases.


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## Mokapi

Savage Destiny said:


> I'm sorry, but I will never believe that having an outdoor cat is in any way even close to responsible. People try to justify it all they want, but the cold facts are that your average outdoor cat has about half the life expectancy of an indoor one.
> 
> They can get run over, killed by a myriad of wild animals, killed be domesticated animals, ingest poison, get trapped places, so many things. And lets not forget that they destroy local wildlife, poop in people's gardens, leave paw prints and scratch marks on people's cars, and generally make people who don't' have outdoor cats suffer the consequences of other people's pets.
> 
> I can tell you right now that if your cat attacked my dogs, you would not be so nonchalant about it after dealing with me.
> 
> Nor do cats "need" to roam. When we adopted Monstee, she was a NIGHTMARE. Tore up carpet, tore up furniture, attacked everyone but me. I mean literally full-on attacked. We went through countless screen doors that she shredded to get outside. Put a baby gate up so she couldn't claw out the bottoms, she climbed the baby gate and first ripped a hole to get out from up there. Then we replaced THAT screen door with another that had a glass bottom, and she figured out how to climb up high enough to unlock the door and get out.
> 
> This went on for years. She escaped so many times I lost count. We couldn't open windows, leave a door cracked, use a screen door in summer, nothing. She would ALWAYS find a way to get out. I was eleven when we got her, and as I got older I learned more about cats and started using my allowance to buy more toys, enrichment items, climbers, and started interacting with her more. I made up games to stimulate her, bought a harness and leash and leash trained her, and made sure she did some sort of activity every day.
> 
> Guess what? The more I did with her and for her, the less she tried to get out. She's an incredibly smart cat, and she needed the mental stimulation. She's getting to be an old lady now (twelve and a half), and I still have to do things with her to keep her happy. But she hasn't tried to escape in YEARS. I do all the same things with my three other strictly indoor cats, and they don't try to escape either.


All of out cats have been indoor/outdoor cats and they've all lived to be 15 and older. Our oldest cat was 20 (he died when I was 13), and he was born blind in one eye and still managed to survive just fine. He died in his sleep. My mom's current cat is 18. Sparkey died when he was 15 because my dad forced him to stay outdoors in the winter the previous year and it ruined his health. I do not believe that if you allow an outdoor cat to also be an indoor cat, they will have half the life expectancy. I've never had a vet tell me that an indoor cat will live twice as long as my indoor/outdoor cats. 

I would love to have someone come to my door and tell me that they're upset, or threaten me, because their off-leash, animal-aggressive dog was jumping at my fence and my 8 lb. cat ran him off. THEY would be the ones in legal trouble. 

My cat is highly, highly intelligent. I could take him on a talk show and he'd impress more people than those super-smart dogs they have on there on occasion. He knows more tricks than my dog. Mental stimulation is not something he lacks. Interaction is not something he lacks. My cat is not constantly roaming the neighborhood. He doesn't go outside of our yard other than the attack on the dog and coming up to greet me when I get out of the car. I do not believe that cats should be locked inside the house their entire lives- like I said in my first post, if something were to happen and they were to be forced to live outside, they wouldn't be prepared. 

What makes it worse is that a lot of people that keep their cats indoors declaw their cats. Way to completely screw them over. If those cats get outside and an animal did attack them, they would have no way to defend themselves, or escape.


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## Mokapi

xellil said:


> It's funny to me how my neighbor has said he would shoot my dog if he ever sees him in his yard around his pig (my dog has never been outside the fence without me, nor wandered the neighborhood - I don't have accidents like that) yet it's perfectly fine for his cat to come in my yard and kill whatever it finds here, whenever it pleases.


How I feel about wandering dogs trying to get at my animals. It's not okay for them to be chased off by my cat, but it's okay for them to be wandering in the first place?

I'm sorry about your birds, Xellil. ): We have lots of jays, cardinals, and finches here, and I love watching them. Maybe you should catch the cat and put a bell on it?  We had to do that with our other cats. 

If your neighbor threatens your dog again, I'd call the non-emergency line of the police and file a complaint.


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## CorgiPaws

If your home is 10 miles or more from the nearest: vehicle, natural predator, rain gutter, manhole, or neighbor... sure, have outdoor cats.
Now, I'm a pretty good neighbor. I don't complain about barking, or kids. I don't complain when the neighbors have their parties ir music up loud. 
But a cat on my new car in the morning or cat crap in my yard? I hate it. Pet owners are given a bad name when people impose THEIR animals on other people. I don't have an outdoor cat, therefore why should I have outdoor cats ruining my property? 
No one can guarantee their outdoor cat NEVER leaves their yard.


A racoon or other animal on my property ruining my things would be trapped and released far, far away. Neighbors cats? I wish!


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## Mokapi

MollyWoppy said:


> ETA: Now I'm worrying about Windy catching Heartworm. I wrote a post which I accidentally put in the General Section, so I'd love to know what you guys with indoor/outdoor cats do!


Sorry to triple post. :|

My cat is on Heartgard, because Indiana is known for its high volume of mosquitos. I got him tested and then put him on it  
My vet said that indoor cats can be just as easily exposed (unless you have a mosquito sensor in your house that zaps them when you're not looking, but that's highly unlikely), and that because their immunities are not as built-up, it can be worse for them. Every cat, like every dog, needs HW prevention, IMO.

Edit: @PuppyPaws- How is a barking dog (well, one that is constantly barking, not the alert barking) not imposing? What about when a dog gets out, digs holes, pees on tires, lunges at dogs behind fences, etc.? I don't know what you mean by a "cat on my new cat in the morning". 

I guess I'm a lot different than you. Screaming children, loudmouth dogs, and blaring music are far worse to me than cat poop that's outdoors.


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## CavePaws

Half the life expectancy, Savagedestiny? Really, you've got to be kidding me that is a load of bullsh*t. The last cat we lost was due to old age, he had to be put to sleep because his body just wasn't functioning properly anymore. He was 22 years old. Literally the oldest cat we have ever had and he lived pretty much every day of his life outside. Our current cats are 14 and 5 years old. Penny, the one we lost at 22, had a brother who died at 18 years old from cancer - he also lived outside his entire life. If anything was wrong with the way we cared for them it was their diet. My cats really don't do much to bother other people and if you have a problem with them wandering about you might as well start picking a battle with the raccoons and possums in the neighborhood as well because they do more damage to property than my cats do. My cats have their shots and they are neutered. They don't add to the population and they really don't go very far because there are other cats who have their own "territory" and it seems pretty clear to my cats where this territory starts and stops - why bother wandering too far if they don't have the means to procreate? They have all the food they could want in the garage and our own yard.

If I could have kept Liam inside I would have. I wouldn't have let him know what it was like to be unrestrained outside and to have all the freedom he wants. My mother is a firm believer in letting cats have freedom outdoors, so that is how Liam was raised. Savagedestiny you talk like I don't love my cat and like I'm not a responsible pet owner, that really makes my hair stand on end and I'm positive you wouldn't be so nonchalant about calling me irresponsible if you were face to face with me right now.


edit: In other words, I'm livid at this moment about your presumptions.


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## xellil

He used to graze his pig all around his house with no fence, but it turned out it wasn't my dog he had to worry about, it was all the other loose dogs. So he finally built a fence. I will go to great lengths not to get at odds with my neighbors, but when i tried to talk to him about his cat klling my birds, he laughed at me.

Over the winter, i couldn't stand it any more so I quit feeding the birds. Then I would see little finches looking for food and it just about killed me - feed them and risk serving them to the cat, or let them fend for themselves? in the end, I am taking my chance with the cat.

From what I read, belling a cat doesn't reduce the amount of birds they can kill - I don't really have an opinion on whether a cat should go outside or not, but I do know people who bring their cats outside, and have trained them to stay in their own yard, treat them basically as they would a dog when it goes outside into the yard, take them for walks etc. I wish those people were my neighbors.


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## Mokapi

CavePaws said:


> Half the life expectancy, Savagedestiny? Really, you've got to be kidding me that is a load of bullsh*t. The last cat we lost was due to old age, he had to be put to sleep because his body just wasn't functioning properly anymore. He was 22 years old. Literally the oldest cat we have ever had and he lived pretty much every day of his life outside. Our current cats are 14 and 5 years old. Penny, the one we lost at 22, had a brother who died at 18 years old from cancer - he also lived outside his entire life. If anything was wrong with the way we cared for them it was their diet. My cats really don't do much to bother other people and if you have a problem with them wandering about you might as well start picking a battle with the raccoons and possums in the neighborhood as well because they do more damage to property than my cats do. My cats have their shots and they are neutered. They don't add to the population and they really don't go very far because there are other cats who have their own "territory" and it seems pretty clear to my cats where this territory starts and stops - why bother wandering too far if they don't have the means to procreate? They have all the food they could want in the garage and our own yard.
> 
> If I could have kept Liam inside I would have. I wouldn't have let him know what it was like to be unrestrained outside and to have all the freedom he wants. My mother is a firm believer in letting cats have freedom outdoors, so that is how Liam was raised. Savagedestiny you talk like I don't love my cat and like I'm not a responsible pet owner, that really makes my hair stand on end and I'm positive you wouldn't be so nonchalant about calling me irresponsible if you were face to face with me right now.
> 
> 
> edit: In other words, I'm livid at this moment about your presumptions.


LMAO...this entire post. All of it. Ditto.

Also, the part about your mom letting your cat outdoors- that's EXACTLY how my dad was, except he was spiteful about it. I got Mrowmrow neutered and told my dad to keep him indoors for at least a week and the minute I left for school that morning he texted me to let me know he had let him out, since that's where he belongs. Oh well. He's doing great, so the outdoors clearly isn't too rough on him.


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## CavePaws

PuppyPaws said:


> If your home is 10 miles or more from the nearest: vehicle, natural predator, rain gutter, manhole, or neighbor... sure, have outdoor cats.
> Now, I'm a pretty good neighbor. I don't complain about barking, or kids. I don't complain when the neighbors have their parties ir music up loud.
> But a cat on my new cat in the morning or cat crap in my yard? I hate it. Pet owners are given a bad name when people impose THEIR animals on other people. I don't have an outdoor cat, therefore why should I have outdoor cats ruining my property?
> No one can guarantee their outdoor cat NEVER leaves their yard.


Does it piss you off when squirrels drop acorns on your car? When birds poop on it? When raccoons and possums crawl all over it? I'm just wondering, because it doesn't bother me a lick when that happens to my car and it is fairly new. You know, because I'm sure the paw prints of a cat really devalue your metal vehicle.


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## Tobi

CavePaws said:


> Half the life expectancy, Savagedestiny? Really, you've got to be kidding me that is a load of bullsh*t. The last cat we lost was due to old age, he had to be put to sleep because his body just wasn't functioning properly anymore. He was 22 years old. Literally the oldest cat we have ever had and he lived pretty much every day of his life outside. Our current cats are 14 and 5 years old. Penny, the one we lost at 22, had a brother who died at 18 years old from cancer - he also lived outside his entire life.


 agreedopcorn:
The oldest cat i know is 20 and she is still kicking my moms cat... it is outside only when she isn't eating or during winter when she is cold now that she is so old.


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## CorgiPaws

CavePaws said:


> Does it piss you off when squirrels drop acorns on your car? When birds poop on it? When raccoons and possums crawl all over it? I'm just wondering, because it doesn't bother me a lick when that happens to my car and it is fairly new. You know, because I'm sure the paw prints of a cat really devalue your metal vehicle.


Considering I've never seen a squirrel in my neighborhood that would be a non issue. I also don't really have other wildlife issues here either. I've never seen a skunk, racoon, opossum or anything else within several miles of my house. I live in the middle of town. And even if I did, that's different. No one is RESPONSIBLE for them and their actions. When you have a pet, youre responsible. 
It's not a matter of them ruining the value of my car, though one did scratch the paint jumping off the hood when I shooed it away. We have a ton of outdoor cats in my neighborhood, and I'm one of the few with a car in the driveway. It's cold outside. My hood is warm when i get home. They Freaking gather. 

If I just washed my car, which happens every weekend, why should I have to have it dirtied by someone else's animals? maybe I should start telling neighbors that they need to come wash it, and poop scoop my yard.
Or just send my dogs to their property to crap every morning and see how they like it.


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## doggiedad

depending on where i lived i've had
indoor cats and cats that were indoor/outdoor cats.
i've never declawed a cat. keep an eye on your cat.
one day the dogs he's chasing might not run away.


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## Mokapi

PuppyPaws said:


> Or just send my dogs to their property to crap every morning and see how they like it.


Well...it is just poop. Even if I didn't pick it up, it's 100% biodegradable and the next rain would wash it away.

Edit: @Doggiedad- Agreed. ;D My presence is the common denominator, though. From what my grandparents tell me, he stays inside asleep while I'm at work and comes out with me when I'm home, or will come meet me in the driveway as I'm pulling in.


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## CorgiPaws

Tobi said:


> agreedopcorn:
> The oldest cat i know is 20 and she is still kicking my moms cat... it is outside only when she isn't eating or during winter when she is cold now that she is so old.


It's an average. It doesn't mean every outdoor cat will die young. A LOT of them do. In fact, some good friends of mine lost SEVERAL cats to the outdoors last year before deciding to keep them indoors. Less than a year old.


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## CorgiPaws

Mokapi said:


> Well...it is just poop. Even if I didn't pick it up, it's 100% biodegradable and the next rain would wash it away.


Well, I still don't appreciate other peoples animal crap in my yard. It's MY yard. I own this property, and it is my job to maintain it and keep it looking nice. If I don't want poo all over my yard, and I clean up after my animals, well, then I shouldn't have to have poo in my yard.

It's people like that that make me want to move far out of town. Common courtesy seems to be a lost concept.


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## CavePaws

PuppyPaws said:


> If I just washed my car, which happens every weekend, why should I have to have it dirtied by someone else's animals? maybe I should start telling neighbors that they need to come wash it, and poop scoop my yard.
> Or just send my dogs to their property to crap every morning and see how they like it.


That would be an option, I suppose. I think if it really bothers you that much you should probably consider letting your neighbors know that they are costing you money and time. Considering I see my cats perching on the hood of my cars in our driveway, sleeping in our courtyard, eating in the garage, hunting things in our yard, and using their litter boxes, I think it's pretty safe to say they don't cause our neighbors much trouble. Most cats bury their poop too, so do you often find these buried piles in your yard? Most dogs don't bury their poop on a walk with their owners, so I'd presume you find more dog poop than cat poop. Meaning your neighbors with indoor dogs are probably causing you more trouble than your neighbors with outdoor cats.

edit: I'd like to see this "average" Please cite a source and give me some numbers. I'm not saying I don't believe it, but I'd rather you guys back up your statement rather than blindly throwing that out there. Do you even know how many outdoor cats there are in this world?


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## CorgiPaws

CavePaws said:


> That would be an option, I suppose. I think if it really bothers you that much you should probably consider letting your neighbors know that they are costing you money and time. Considering I see my cats perching on the hood of my cars in our driveway, sleeping in our courtyard, eating in the garage, hunting things in our yard, and using their litter boxes, I think it's pretty safe to say they don't cause our neighbors much trouble. Most cats bury their poop too, so do you often find these buried piles in your yard? Most dogs don't bury their poop on a walk with their owners, so I'd presume you find more dog poop than cat poop. Meaning your neighbors with indoor dogs are probably causing you more trouble than your neighbors with outdoor cats.


Two cats belonging to the lady across the road are in my yard all the time. 
Neither bury their feces. I have watched them several times.
One of my cats doesn't bury his either.
And considering my house sits nearly pretty set back off the road, its not from walking dogs. Unless everyone is using a 50 foot lead.

I know who is to blame, don't assume I'm aimlessly pointing fingers. I think I know more about what's going on on my property, thanks.


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## CavePaws

Well, obviously you've located the precise source of your problem then, Puppypaws. I think you should head on over to her house with a bag of her cats poop and let her know you're tired of it.

Both of my cats bury their poop. And they use their litter box. I am justifying why I let my cats remain outdoor cats.


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## CorgiPaws

CavePaws said:


> Well, obviously you've located the precise source of your problem then, Puppypaws. I think you should head on over to her house with a bag of her cats poop and let her know you're tired of it.
> 
> Both of my cats bury their poop. And they use their litter box. I am justifying why I let my cats remain outdoor cats.


That's fine if you feel the need to justify it.
and I have addressed the topic. a few times.
I simply do not believe in imposing my animals on other people. period. and some day when champ kills someone's cat on my property, then oh well.


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## CavePaws

So, I'm curious, since it bothers you so much that people are imposing their animals upon you are you going to do something about those two cats who poop in your yard? There are a number of things I can suggest. Here are the ideas that I can give you off the top of my head:

1. Take a picture of them pooping in your yard, gather some of the poop, and bring it to the woman so she cannot dispute that it is indeed her cats causing the problem.
2. Throw something at them or spray them when they are in your yard.
3. Spray them with water when they are on top of your car.
4. Let your dogs scare the living **** out of them when they come into the yard.

edit: You can also tell her you have an aggressive dog who will kill her cats, as you just stated, and that it would be in her cats best interest not to come into your yard. Hey, it's a fair warning. Maybe she'll think twice about letting her cats on your property.


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## CorgiPaws

CavePaws said:


> So, I'm curious, since it bothers you so much that people are imposing their animals upon you are you going to do something about those two cats who poop in your yard? There are a number of things I can suggest. Here are the ideas that I can give you off the top of my head:
> 
> 1. Take a picture of them pooping in your yard, gather some of the poop, and bring it to the woman so she cannot dispute that it is indeed her cats causing the problem.
> 2. Throw something at them or spray them when they are in your yard.
> 3. Spray them with water when they are on top of your car.
> 4. Let your dogs scare the living **** out of them when they come into the yard.
> 
> edit: You can also tell her you have an aggressive dog who will kill her cats, as you just stated, and that it would be in her cats best interest not to come into your yard. Hey, it's a fair warning. Maybe she'll think twice about letting her cats on your property.


In a thread, on the internet, where its being discussed... I will be pretty downright blunt. In my day to day life... I ask myself what battles are worth fighting. I've expressed dislike and nothing was done. At that point, I chalk her up as a crappy neighbor, am disappointed in the lack of common courtesy, and move on. Im not going to act like an idiot over it and mage a huge deal. That wouldn't be very neighborly now would it?
I don't know if champ would or not. I've had cats with him just fine... but that different than some strange cat outside who wants to run and make itself into prey.


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## CavePaws

That's really crumby of her to not have the courtesy to at least pick up after them. See, if I had a neighbor come and tell me that my cats were causing them some kind of problem, I'd try to find a resolution for it. I don't want my animals causing people problems. I really do think you should try keeping the cats out of the yard and off your car by spraying them with stuff. If the battle isn't worth picking with the owners then you might as well take care of the problem yourself. There are ways you can do it. 

My dogs would chase a strange cat through the yard, they'd probably catch it and play with it, I don't know that they would kill it. But I can't say they'd be gentle. So, I think I know what you mean. Does Champ have a high prey drive or something?


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## CorgiPaws

CavePaws said:


> That's really crumby of her to not have the courtesy to at least pick up after them. See, if I had a neighbor come and tell me that my cats were causing them some kind of problem, I'd try to find a resolution for it. I don't want my animals causing people problems. I really do think you should try keeping the cats out of the yard and off your car by spraying them with stuff. If the battle isn't worth picking with the owners then you might as well take care of the problem yourself. There are ways you can do it.
> 
> My dogs would chase a strange cat through the yard, they'd probably catch it and play with it, I don't know that they would kill it. But I can't say they'd be gentle. So, I think I know what you mean. Does Champ have a high prey drive or something?


Yes, he does. Do I THINK he would kill one? No. But can I say with absolute confidence that if I were not around to stop him he absolutely positively would not? No. He's a dog... and a very protective of his territory one. I don't know how he would take to an intruding cat if I didn't make him"leave it."


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## CavePaws

Not to hijack the thread but does anyone know how I would go about turning my outdoor cats into indoor cats? I was thinking a cat enclosure in the backyard could solve part of the problem in giving Liam "freedom" outside. Has anyone trained their cats to like a leash and harness and walk with it? I think if I do end up switching the cats to being indoor cats - other than their cat enclosure - then I am going to have to give in and somehow get them things to hunt like mice or rats. I would just feel really bad taking that ability to hunt mice outside away from them. I mean, I could always release some mice into the cat enclosure. D: I don't feel like that would "fair" for the mice. :/

You see, I do have qualms with my cat being an outdoor cat. It's not like I don't see the dangers and don't fear them. It's quite the contrary because I do love my animals a lot and the cats who live outside aren't an exception.


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## Mokapi

CavePaws said:


> Not to hijack the thread but does anyone know how I would go about turning my outdoor cats into indoor cats? I was thinking a cat enclosure in the backyard could solve part of the problem in giving Liam "freedom" outside. Has anyone trained their cats to like a leash and harness and walk with it? I think if I do end up switching the cats to being indoor cats - other than their cat enclosure - then I am going to have to give in and somehow get them things to hunt like mice or rats. I would just feel really bad taking that ability to hunt mice outside away from them. I mean, I could always release some mice into the cat enclosure. D: I don't feel like that would "fair" for the mice. :/
> 
> You see, I do have qualms with my cat being an outdoor cat. It's not like I don't see the dangers and don't fear them. It's quite the contrary because I do love my animals a lot and the cats who live outside aren't an exception.


MM walks on a leash and harness just fine! When he got grumpy he'd flop over and act like it was the end of the world, but as long as I don't wake him up from a nap to take him outside with me then he's fine. I trained him to like his harness same way I trained my dog to like his GL. 

I don't know how well switching him from enjoying the outside entirely to seeing the outside but still being "inside" would work, but I'm interested to see your results so if you end up doing it, you should make a big post about it with lots of pictures


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## DaneMama

I know from way too much experience that outdoor cats do not on average live longer than indoor cats. Not even close. 

With that being said, I tend to *love* watching cats be "in their element" outside. They are more "wild" than dogs and just know how to be outside, at least most cats do. It almost seems unfair to cats to have them indoors only. To me if you're going to have an indoor only cat, you'd better step up to the plate and make their life unbelievably happy because they DON'T get to go out and experience the world like they should.

*BUT*....and thats a huge but. BUT the safety issue is of really high concern with me, especially if you live in the city (cars and stupid people). Heck, even living in the country is dangerous to a domestic cat. Wild animals take out domestic cats all the time...I know from experience. And I do agree with Linsey about other people's animals imposing on your property. It may take one who knows what its like owning property and having someone else's animals come and use your rose garden as their litter box. Its unpleasant in the simplest of terms. Yes, cats do bury their doodoo but when you're digging in your garden in the springtime and all you dig up is old, rotten cat turds....its gross and even more gross knowing its not even your cat who's doing it.


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## CavePaws

The safety issue is what is driving me to want to know how to switch my cat to living indoors without boring him to death.

I guess I'll have to go get a harness for at least Liam since he does like walking with me. That would solve the problem of me having to leave him behind on walks, I wouldn't have to worry about him expanding his territory if I kept him inside all the time and only let him outside supervised. Mokapi, I don't know that I can switch him, my mother actually hates having him inside which really sucks. I'm super allergic to him but I really don't care about that too much as long as I have my inhaler, allergy tablets, and wash my hands after playing with him.  Plus vacuum/sweep all the time. :| Maybe a cat forum would be the appropriate place to ask this question.


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## Tobi

CavePaws said:


> Not to hijack the thread but does anyone know how I would go about turning my outdoor cats into indoor cats? I was thinking a cat enclosure in the backyard could solve part of the problem in giving Liam "freedom" outside. Has anyone trained their cats to like a leash and harness and walk with it? I think if I do end up switching the cats to being indoor cats - other than their cat enclosure - then I am going to have to give in and somehow get them things to hunt like mice or rats. I would just feel really bad taking that ability to hunt mice outside away from them. I mean, I could always release some mice into the cat enclosure. D: I don't feel like that would "fair" for the mice. :/
> 
> You see, I do have qualms with my cat being an outdoor cat. It's not like I don't see the dangers and don't fear them. It's quite the contrary because I do love my animals a lot and the cats who live outside aren't an exception.


people do, do this... Cat Enclosures - Home Made Enclosures - Cat-World some are quite elaborate some not so much but the sky is the limit...

here are some prefabbed ones, Cat Enclosures - Commercial Cat Enclosures & Cat Runs - Cat-World


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## Savage Destiny

CavePaws said:


> The safety issue is what is driving me to want to know how to switch my cat to living indoors without boring him to death.
> 
> I guess I'll have to go get a harness for at least Liam since he does like walking with me. That would solve the problem of me having to leave him behind on walks, I wouldn't have to worry about him expanding his territory if I kept him inside all the time and only let him outside supervised. Mokapi, I don't know that I can switch him, my mother actually hates having him inside which really sucks. I'm super allergic to him but I really don't care about that too much as long as I have my inhaler, allergy tablets, and wash my hands after playing with him.  Plus vacuum/sweep all the time. :| Maybe a cat forum would be the appropriate place to ask this question.


Tobi gave you some GREAT advice on outdoor enclosures! When we own a house, I plan on building my cats an outdoor enclosure accessible by a kitty door so they can get some fresh air. 

There are plenty of things they can "hunt" inside. My cats have puzzle toys they get to play with regularly, everything from balls that spit out kibble when whacked to actual puzzles where they have to slide disks or pull out pegs to get the treats. Playing with chase toys also stimulates their need to chase and pounce, and gets them exercise. I even have toys that squeak like mice and hang from bouncy strings from doorframes, so they can jump up to try and catch them. 

There are so many ways to keep indoor kitties happy. My four aren't exactly neglected.


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## mischiefgrrl

Mine are strictly indoors. I've had 4 cats in my life that were allowed outdoors. One got hit by a car in front of me while I was waiting for the bus as a child. Two just disappeared when they were young. One lived to be an old lady - but she was a stray who showed herself in to my bedroom when I moved into a new place and decided to stay. My old Sh*tty Kitty was determined to be an indoor/outdoor cat and managed to get out a few times in his life. I was terrified every second he was gone since he was a bright white 27lb ragdoll that might as well have had "coyote snack" written on him. He kept me busy cat proofing all of the escape hatches to keep him inside but I'm glad I did.


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## MollyWoppy

I taught Windy to walk on a leash when I adopted her at 2 years old. She will walk a long way (we've done 2-1/2miles) it just takes AGES! You have to have the patience of a, well, I don't know. They walk like the predators they are, walk a bit, (like 3 houses, often less), stop, look around, walk some more, always scanning looking for prey. So, don't think they trot away like dogs, well, at least Windy doesn't. 
She walks in crowds, up busy city streets, loud traffic I take her everywhere actually, everywhere I take and walk Mollie. She even goes to outdoor restaurants with Molle and me, just lies under the table, no problems. 
You really have to watch for other uncontrolled dogs so she is never scared or feels threatened, her walk has to be a total fun time.
I have bought her about 6 or 7 harnesses, but the best I've found is the H Harness, it doesn't put any strain on their necks. Both her and Mollie sit on command when a car goes past, most of our streets don't have footpaths you see.
At the moment I'm not walking her too much, I've found that she's quite sensitive to the heat on the road. So, I wracked my brains and 6 weeks ago or so I bought a pet carrier for the bike and trained her to use that, so now in the summertime we go for bike rides instead. 
As for the indoors - Windy is only interested in toys that move, and then, only some very very few toys that move. The absolute best toy I found for her, by far, is Da Bird, she will play with that as long as I use it like she would be hunting stuff in the wild. Hiding it behind things so she can stalk it, and I always end the game with her catching it and 'killing' it, I move it like a bird trying to get away so she can do the final play killing thing that cats like to do, and then I give her dinner so its like she's done the work, caught the prey and now has a full, content stomach.
Well, as you can see, I've put too much thought into this kitten here, I just wanted her to have a happy, fulfilled life as the predator she is, but I didn't want her killing anything if I could possibly help it. Lizards the exception, there's no way I can stop that from happening.
I am lucky too, we have the pool lanai, so she gets a bit of outdoors during the day, its just that its concrete, but it expands her indoor territory. 
Good luck, I think the key is keeping the cats body and brain tired.

ETA I'd have no problems at all if Wind caught a wild rabbit or mouse or rat, but I'd be upset if she caught a bird. I love birds. It has took about 5 years for the birds to return back here after the hurricane, so I do not want her catching and killing baby birds. If she caught a rat or rabbit, or maybe even a squirrel, as much as I couldn't watch it, I don't think I'd stop her.


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## SerenityFL

First, when I was younger, at one point we had a cat when we lived in a VERY small town. She was an outdoor cat. In winter she was allowed in doors and she got to be indoors to eat. She lived a VERY long time but she usually only spent time sitting next to my mom when she was gardening or across the alley at an older lady's garden, watching her garden.

I came home from school one day, (JUST in time), to witness my cat on the back steps, (she had run to our back door, where she was let in and out all the time, looking for safety from us), hissing and all furred up as a dog, at the bottom of the steps, was getting ready to attack her. I ran that dog off with as many curse words as I could come up with at the time and saved her life. If I had been a minute later, we wouldn't have had that cat anymore. To this day, I have no idea who the dog belonged to but after I got through with it, (scaring it off that is), I never saw that dog near our yard again.

Now, having said all of that, my cats are strictly indoors. No matter where I live. What I mean by that is they stay, inside, all the time except for one, Serenity, who I have walked on a leash before. Other than that, inside. It could be traffic, it could be dogs, it could be wildlife, it could be people stealing them, or it could be POS like this:

Cat Killer In Miami

Finally, when I first moved out to the Everglades, I found a little cat that someone had dumped off. She came galloping over to me. I gained her trust and within a short period of time, I put her inside. She wanted to escape all the time, I had to ensure all doors were closed, no open windows without screens, and even walking out the door I always had to check to make sure she wasn't near because she would BOLT out the door. She got out a few times and one time it took four hours to get her back.

She would do pretty well out here, outdoors. She knows her way around. I've lost her for four months one time. FOUR months! Then one day, there she was. I thought she was dead. With a lot of effort, I was able to get her back....had to have some neighbors grab her because she knew what I was up to and she didn't want to be inside.

Tough.

It took a couple of years but now, while I wouldn't leave my door wide open for long periods of time, she no longer tries to escape. She has accepted that maybe it's not so bad being inside because she is safe, secure, gets fed regularly, is starting to get along with the other cats, (we still work on it), and it's not so fun out there with all the bugs and the dirt and the lightning and hard rain and cold days and hot days....it IS possible to make a once outdoor cat be an indoor cat. Is it easy? NO. But it can be done.

I personally think that if you don't live far away from some of the things mentioned above, you are putting your cat at risk. I am not willing to take that gamble because they can still have a quality life without being outside. They get to satisfy their "prey drive" with the hundreds and hundreds of dollars in toys I've spent, furniture, other cats to chase, cat grass, plants, etc to hide and play in. They are fine and they are not having a worse quality of life being inside. It is not cruel to keep them inside. I don't even let my fricken dogs be outside if I'm not around.

And yes, people DO steal animals for sick purposes. Rituals, (big thing here in Miami), dog fighting bait, (big thing here in Miami), torture, or just because they want the animal no matter it belongs to someone.

And as far as being responsible, it's not a matter of telling the non cat owner, "then do this to take care of the situation", the neighbor should never have to take care of any situation your animal causes. Part of being a responsible pet owner is to ensure that your animals do not infringe on other people. And some people do not like cat paw prints on their things. As a cat lover, it may not seem a big deal but to those who do not own a cat or that cat, it is. Don't dismiss that just because you don't think it's a big deal. Be considerate. 

And I'm going to have to agree that if my dog were being attacked by a neighbor cat, I'd be pretty damn livid. It's this kind of thing that gives reason for laws like cats have to be on leashes as well. I don't agree with that law because I don't like being governed by a nanny state but apparently cat paw prints, cat poop and bird killings DO bother people enough that now some areas have this law.

Here's something else to read and consider: Pets And Wildlife Don't Mix


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## luvMyBRT

I wish the cats in my neighborhood where indoor cats! I'm getting really tired of all their poop in my front yard! Every time my dogs go outside in the front it's a mad dash to see who can find the cat poop first. hwell:hwell:


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## Tobi

airsoft gun and a steakout!


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## Unosmom

I dont have cats, but my parents cats are indoor/oudoor, one of them does not like dogs and prefers to stay outside, she's very skittish and usually just hides somewhere most of the day. The other cat is pretty old and mostly lounges around and likes to sunbathe. I've never seen them wander more then few yards away from the house and my famiy lives in a very quiet culdesac away from busy roads. If I lived in the city, I would keep my cat indoors due to safety reasons.


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## Paws&Tails

CavePaws said:


> Not to hijack the thread but does anyone know how I would go about turning my outdoor cats into indoor cats? I was thinking a cat enclosure in the backyard could solve part of the problem in giving Liam "freedom" outside. Has anyone trained their cats to like a leash and harness and walk with it? I think if I do end up switching the cats to being indoor cats - other than their cat enclosure - then I am going to have to give in and somehow get them things to hunt like mice or rats. I would just feel really bad taking that ability to hunt mice outside away from them. I mean, I could always release some mice into the cat enclosure. D: I don't feel like that would "fair" for the mice. :/
> 
> You see, I do have qualms with my cat being an outdoor cat. It's not like I don't see the dangers and don't fear them. It's quite the contrary because I do love my animals a lot and the cats who live outside aren't an exception.



Have you ever heard of Cat Fence-In?? It stops the cat from being able to climb over the fence, and they have a combination barrier that stops roaming/stray cats from entering your yard. 

As of right now I'm having to take my cats for short outside trips every day. I can't let them roam anymore like they used to (they were born outside and were outside only before we got them) as they all have FIV (acquired from their mother. Rare, but it does happen). I hate doing this, but until we can fence the yard, it's how it has to be.


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## rannmiller

Mokapi said:


> I guess I'm a lot different than you. Screaming children, loudmouth dogs, and blaring music are far worse to me than cat poop that's outdoors.


Oh I definitely have to disagree with that statement! I love my neighborhood in every way except for the stupid cats that roam the streets and poop in my yard! It drives me insane when dogs run into the front yard in the morning before I leash them up for our walks and they go straight for a Friskies-fed pile of cat crap, munch it up, get it all over their lips, wipe it on each other, then try to give me a kiss and smear it on my hands! I have honestly considered poisoning the cats in my neighborhood, but decided against it because I'm not sure if it's illegal and I would probably kill myself if my dogs got into it. That's how mad I am about the dumb cats pooping in my yard. 

One evening I came home with my pups after a day of hiking, let them into the front yard but took Peyton straight inside because she is the worst about finding the cat poop and smearing it all over me. So a minute later I noticed Penny and Milo hadn't come to the door asking to come back in, so I went to call them. Nothing. So I went around the the side of my house and saw them both semi-attacking one of the stupid neighborhood cats. I say semi-attacking because they weren't really biting or trying to kill it, just playing really rough and the cat was obviously not amused. Stupid thing kept getting a claw latched into my poor dogs' chin or cheek, but they were so excited about the new toy that they had caught in their yard, they weren't really deterred by the pain. I contemplated not stepping in for a second, because, yay one less cat pooping in my yard! But soon decided against it because... well i guess it's not the cat's fault that its owners are so irresponsible. Finally, i got them both off of the cat and into a stay so the cat could get away. It barely made it over my 3 1/2 foot chain link fence it was so exhausted, but didn't seem terribly injured. I told it to tell all of its friends that's what happens when dumb cats go into my yard. The cat hissed at me and ran off. Consequently, my yard was cat poop-free for several months after that. Does that make me sound like a horrible human being? Probably. But I don't care. Keep your animals out of my yard and I'll keep my animals out of your yard. If I'm going to be so irresponsible as to let my animals go into your yard, I would expect them to receive the same treatment and I wouldn't be surprise or mad about it. And just so you all know, the cat is fine and still wandering the neighborhood  

I mean, I love animals, cats included, I have two cats of my own! But there is no way I would just let my cats out to roam the neighborhood and be a nuisance to my neighbors. I won't allow my cats to roam free in my neighborhood for the same reason I won't allow my dogs to roam free in my neighborhood. They could get stolen, shot at, hit by a car, tortured by children, attacked by a dog, attacked by another cat, attacked by any animal really, get into poison, fall and break something, get caught in something, ingest a foreign body, or poop in someone else's yard. My kitties are perfectly happy being inside only. 

On occasion, Swoshum (my 16 year old cat) will get really brave and wander out the dog door to roll in the dirt, then immediately get scared at the slightest noise and run back inside. As long as she's under my direct and immediate supervision the entire time, she's allowed to go outside for a few minutes, but she doesn't crave it or freak out if i keep her "cooped up" inside where she's safe.


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## Mokapi

rannmiller said:


> But I don't care. Keep your animals out of my yard and I'll keep my animals out of your yard. If I'm going to be so irresponsible as to let my animals go into your yard, I would expect them to receive the same treatment and I wouldn't be surprise or mad about it.


Exactly how I feel about the dogs trying to get over my fence. Keep your aggressive mutts on a leash (or, preferably, behind their own fence) and my cat wouldn't feel the need to drive them off from HIS territory. The dogs will meet death pretty quickly if they come into my yard and attack Chip or the pugs. If Mrowmrow were to waltz into someone else's yard, I wouldn't make a big deal over their dog running him off. He knows his territory, and once he was neutered he had no desire to leave my yard. 

I guess knowing that cat poop is no big deal is the reason why I don't care at all if it's in my yard. Like I said, screaming children, loudmouth dogs, and blaring music are far, far worse to me than buried cat poop outdoors.


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## MollyWoppy

It gives me the horrors to even think about shooting or killing cats. If my cat accidentally got out, I'd be spitting blood and out for revenge if anyone intentionally hurt her. Thats why she is supervised and has her tracking beacon. But, I've also spoken to all the neighbours and introduced my cat to everyone within a 7 house range. That way if she gets out, they know who she is and feel happy to call knowing I probably don't know she's out or I'm probably already looking for her. I don't care if people think I'm weird, she is my animal and I'm responsible for her and her wellbeing.
I mean, people round here get brassed off because birds poop on their roofs and in their yards, there has to be a line of tolerance drawn somewhere.


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## xellil

Well, sometimes I fantasize about doing something to my neighbor's cat, because he is killing animals on my property, but I couldn't actually DO it. It's not his fault his owner is a jerk.

But it's possible my dog would get out (not likely, but anything is possible). i would die if someone shot him.

My parents' neighbors shot my parents chow when it got out and went onto their property, although their two labs spent every morning hanging out on my parents' front porch, eating their dog food and pooping in their yard. Their son laughed about it when he was telling my niece. I guess they thought it was ok for their dogs to wander loose everywhere.

People can be crazy.


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## luvMyBRT

If I where to ever own a cat(s) they for sure would be inside cats.

Back in college I rescued a starving female Rottweiler that was chained up in the back yard next door to me. After having her a couple months she gained almost 40 pounds and gained her energy and spirit back. One afternoon we were all in our back yard. Our fence was a chain link fence. Our backyard backed up to an alley way. There were always tons of stray cats that would walk by our yard, almost taunting the dogs. Well.....Annie (the female rescue Rottie) had finally had enough. She took off running, scaled the 6 foot fence like it wasn't even there, cased down one of the stray cats and killed it. It was over in just seconds. I was in shock and very upset. I don't know if she did this after being chained up and taunted by the cats for so long or what.....it was very upsetting. 

The funny part is that at the time I had 2 cats that where only indoor cats....and Annie learned to live with them, respected them and loved them. They all snuggled together regularly.

So....yeah....any cat I ever own will be indoor. Accidents happen in the blink of an eye. Period.


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## SerenityFL

Mokapi said:


> I guess knowing that cat poop is no big deal is the reason why I don't care at all if it's in my yard. Like I said, screaming children, loudmouth dogs, and blaring music are far, far worse to me than buried cat poop outdoors.


To YOU, it's no big deal. To YOU. Frankly, I don't really care either. There are a few strays out here and one neighbor cat who was left behind by someone but is taken care of by another neighbor and yes, sometimes, I find cat poop in the area in front of my house. And yes, my hoodlums try to eat it. And yes, it's a bit annoying but not something that I worry too much about. But that is ME, not everyone else. I also often find cat paw prints on my hood, windsheild and top of car. Again, to ME, I don't really care.

BUT, that doesn't mean that others do not. And just because YOU, personally, do not mind, doesn't mean that others do not. Again, being a responsible pet owner means your animals DO NOT INFRINGE on other people at all.

I don't like loud, bass thumping music that rattles my windows, the incessent horn blaring that goes on in Miami, children screaming at all hours of the day and night, either. But that is not what we are talking about. We are talking about being responsible pet owners.

I've heard many people say things about doing something to the neighbors cat or dog, (cat poop, pee or dog constantly non stop barking all day and night), and it makes me sad because it is NOT the animals' faults that the owners are irresponsible. 

I have a co-worker right now who is contemplating "taking care of" his neighbor's dog because it sits in the driveway and barks all day and night. That is NOT fair to the dog. The OWNER is the responsible party and the OWNER should be dealt with or lose their animal to be adopted by someone else who is responsible. 

The dog barking doesn't bother the owner, either. Cats pooping in other people's yards don't tend to bother those cat owners either but it DOES bother the neighbors so again, even though it doesn't bother YOU, if your cat is "causing problems", no matter how trivial or ridiculous you think they are, you are responsible for stopping that or you may find that your cat has suffered greatly because someone has had enough.

Now, as to your point, if my dog went up to the cat's yard and tried something, ya know...the dog deserved it. Leave the cat alone. But, I would ensure that I had a talk with the owners. If those owners refuse to keep their dogs in their yards or on leash and otherwise cannot control their dogs from coming up to your yard, unsupervised, then contact someone and let them know, AFTER you have tried speaking with the owner, because clearly the owners are irresponsible and something worse may happen one day.

But if your cat or dog comes to another person's yard and does things....it's your responsibility to fix it, not theirs. Although, if you don't, and continue not to care, they just might. And you're not necessarily going to like how they "fix it".


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## nikkiluvsu15

Tigger and Phoebe are inside/outside cats. Phoebe stayed 100% inside for the first 6 months of her life (until after she had been spayed & healed completely) and she about drove us insane :twitch: LOL She is the craziest cat ever... she climbs 6-7 foot doors such as:









I don't know what we'd do if we didn't let her have outside fun.. we might not be alive! haha She is much like a Lab, as she grew up with Harleigh. So she loves water, fetching, etc.

Fetching with Harleigh.

















Enjoying the outside!

























Now when I move out and IF I move more into the town she'll have to become an inside-only cat because I wouldn't risk letting her outside (except when on leash, etc) there.


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## SerenityFL

nikkiluvsu15, is that your yard? If it is, I am envious!

CUTE cat!!


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## Mokapi

That calico is adorable...she looks great and it's awesome that she fetches. It's so obvious how much cats love the outdoors, LOL! Mrowmrow is out on the porch batting around some leaves and sneak-attacking the pugs...he's one of the happiest cats I know when he's able to run around


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## nikkiluvsu15

SerenityFL said:


> nikkiluvsu15, is that your yard? If it is, I am envious!
> 
> CUTE cat!!


Yes, thats the back yard. Thank you  She's cute, but crazy... I think that should be her Fetching Tag line (when I get her one). LOL


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