# Keeping weight on?



## meggels (May 30, 2010)

Murph has been on raw for a few weeks now, maybe even nearing a month. 

He was doing great at first, but I feel like he might be slipping backwards a bit on the progress scale...

I don't think it helps that allergies for both humans & dogs are crazy right now with all this damn pollen...



Anyway, he is getting Vital Essentials raw mixture, which is 99% meat and 1% kelp. Right now he is on the beef mixture, but eventually he will be getting the chicken and fish as well:

Beef: Beef, beef tripe, beef lung, ground beef bone, beef liver, beef heart, beef kidney, beef blood, beef fat, herring oil, d-alpha tocopherols, mixed tocopherols, natural vitamin e



Chicken: Ground chicken with bone, chicken heart, chicken liver, herring oil, d-alpha tocopherols, mixed tocopherols, natural vitamin e 



Fish: Whole cold water Lake Superior Cisco, d-alpha tocopherols, mixed tocopherols, natural vitamin E




It seems like (and I've noticed this before with the short stints we did with NV raw) that he loses weight if he's not given a substantial amount of raw. I started him at 8oz a day of the Vital Essentials, and after two weeks and a visit to the vet, bumped him up to 10oz a day. He still seems a smidge thin, but not as bad as before. Is this normal? Is that a lot for him each day?? He's 21lbs, could probably gain another lb or 2, but I try to keep him light because he has grade 4 luxating patellas. 

Here he is the other day:



















I'm not sure if it's just because his ribcage is so large, it makes his waist appear so thin? You can't see any bones *besides his giant ribcage lol*. 


Here he was a few weeks ago, just beginning the raw:











Thoughts?



Also, just cause he's cute, here he is last weekend at my friends wedding reception, which yes, he was invited to. The groom (in the picture with him) LOVES him lol...


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

no one????


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

Are you feeding once or twice a day? You could add egg into his diet a couple times a week without any real issues except stinky farts.


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## Northwoods10 (Nov 22, 2010)

How much are you feeding per day? How old is he? 

Have you increased his amounts at all?

For some dogs starting out, it seems to me that they do lose weight at first...I think its part of the detox stage and adjustment period. Their body has to figure out a balance. Getting rid of the old and in with the new. 

Take a look at the amounts you're feeding, what he should weigh, and go from there.

ETA: Just saw your last paragraph. Age will have a lot to do with the amount you need to be feeding, as will activity level.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

Northwoods10 said:


> How much are you feeding per day? How old is he?
> 
> Have you increased his amounts at all?
> 
> ...


That was in the original post lol 

He was on 8 oz a day, half am and half pm to begin with. He's been on 10oz a day (half am half pm) for over a week now. When those first two pictures were take, he had been on the 10oz a day for a week. Feeding him more than 10oz a day seems like a lot. Does he look really thin? I do want him on the thin side because of his patellas anyway, but I don't want him to look emaciated. We were in nj today and a little boy pointed at Murph and said "he's a skinny dog!" Lol


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## rannmiller (Jun 27, 2008)

it's really hard to tell if he looks emaciated from those pics cuz of the angle. Is there any way you can get a straight on pic of him standing from the side? It could just be his huge ribcage though! Have you tried feeding him prey model raw rather than pre-made? you might not have to feed as much of it to keep the weight on him, because i agree that it seems like 10 oz should be about perfect for him as a good maintenance level. It may take another week or two to see more results from the increased feeding levels though. I like whiteleo's advice for adding an egg once or twice a week, as well as some salmon oil to his food every other day.

Edit to add: I forgot to say that Murphy is so stinkin' cute! I love Frenchies!


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## Northwoods10 (Nov 22, 2010)

Depending on his age....that could say a lot. If he's still growing, he may require more just to balance out. 

At 3% of 21...that equals just a little over 10 oz....he might just have a high metabolism and be one of those dogs who doesn't fall into the 2-3% guideline. Bump him up an ounce or two and try an egg a couple times a week. See if that helps?

The pictures of him from above make him look skinny, but the picture of him laying down he looks fine. Can you get a picture of him as a side view standing up?


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

I wouldn't worry about his weight so much. To me I think he doesn't look too thin. For him especially it is important to keep him on the thinner side. Just increase his food if he needs to gain a little weight and vice versa. I don't think its a health issue that is causing him to eat more.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

Kelley- he is 1.5 years old. When he was on kibble, he would eat about 1.25 cups a day, dunno if that lets you know about how much he needs to eat to stay a good weight. 

He just had an all over physical two weeks ago and vet said he looked good, just needed to gain a pound or two. I think he looks okay now, just definitely on the thinner side. 

10oz seems like it might be a good number. It seems like he fluctuates a lot, like today, he looks a little heftier to me LOL. And it changes so much with whatever angle he is sitting/standing at...oy vey. And I'm sure he wouldn't protest getting an egg a few times a week  

Natalie- Glad you could evaluate the pics. I buy his raw in 5lb rolls and thaw them out just a tiny bit and then portion them into 10oz baggies and refreeze them, so it would just be a little hard to add more or less unless I bought him a bag of the niblets and added those on a day to day basis. Which could be done.


Also, stupid question, but what is the equation for finding out how much he needs to eat? I'm mathematically challenged lol and I kept trying to figure it out last night but was def getting the wrong answer...


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Multiply his ideal weight by 0.02 and 0.03 to get the general guideline, of course change this if needed....Not every dog falls within this guideline based on other lifestyle components.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

DaneMama said:


> Multiply his ideal weight by 0.02 and 0.03 to get the general guideline, of course change this if needed....Not every dog falls within this guideline based on other lifestyle components.


I'm pretty sure I'm ridiculously dumb :-/ I multiple 22lbs by .03 and get .66?


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## swolek (Mar 31, 2011)

meggels said:


> I'm pretty sure I'm ridiculously dumb :-/ I multiple 22lbs by .03 and get .66?


You did the math right, that's 0.66 lbs or 10.56 oz.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh okay. And how do you know how to convert it from lbs to oz?


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## 3Musketeers (Nov 4, 2010)

meggels said:


> Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh okay. And how do you know how to convert it from lbs to oz?


 Multiply the lbs, (in this case .66) by 16, as there are 16 ounces in every pound.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

Well, while in PA this weekend, visiting my friend/the breeder I got Murphy from, I was told he looked emaciated  

I had a fecal done on Monday when I got back and he's clear of any worms. 

He's eating about 10.5 ounces a day and is still a bit thin. I'm thinking of bumping it up a tiny bit and seeing where we go.

He's looking better today though, a little heftier. I was feeding him the vital essentails freeze dried raw while we were gone since it was easier to travel with. The directions said to feed 1 patty a day to a 25lb dog. I was feeding him 1.5-2 patties a day and he's looking better IMO. Just finished it up this morning so now he will be going back to the frozen kind. The vet techs said he looked good today too (went in there to pay his bill from Monday) and got a weight, he's at 20.3 lbs. The SAME exact thing he was on April 29th lol.


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## nupe (Apr 26, 2011)

try a satin ball...or half a satin ball maybe every other day!!


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

what the heck is a satin ball lol?


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

I will tell you right now that he isn't anywhere near emaciated. IMO he looks perfect. 

I'm not the biggest fan of satin balls to put weight on a dog, but here's some info:

satin balls for dogs - Google Search


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## nupe (Apr 26, 2011)

Recipe for Satin Balls


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

Oh, I'd probably avoid those because of his yeast issues, I try to keep him away from any grains, fruits, veggies. 

I'll probably just up his quantity a little bit  Maybe a raw egg a few times a week  

I know he's definitely not a show condition frenchie right now. Way too thin. But I don't want him as plump as the show frenchies, that's for sure! 


I'm thinking about having a full blood work up just to make sure he's okay since the fecal was clear. I mean he seems fine. He LOVES to eat, he drinks, and he has been more playful the past few days since I already upped his food intake a little bit.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

I always do routine blood work on my girls. I think it's important. 

Honestly I wish show dogs could be thinner because they're all so chubby in my honest opinion.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

Yeah, I think I'm gonna do the bloodwork soon just to be safe.


Here he is a few minutes ago:




















And for comparison, here he is over a year ago when he was still a show dog and lived with the breeder:


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

I would definitely suggest blood work and a fecal. He does, IMO, looked too tucked. I LOVE him from the breeder's pics, IMO that is a GOOD looking Frenchie right there(perfect hour glass look, from the nice well sprung rib cage into the tummy tuck and then out to the nice well balanced rear!)!:biggrin1: But DARN he is CUUTE!!


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

Fecal on Monday came back clear, nothing there.

I will schedule blood work asap. I hope he's not sick


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

meggels said:


> Fecal on Monday came back clear, nothing there.
> 
> I will schedule blood work asap. I hope he's not sick


 Ah sorry, I just saw that!:tongue: I was looking at that adorable face!HAHHA

Good luck to you and to him for the blood work to come back either clear or with something that will answer questions!!


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

He goes Monday morning for his bloodwork. Fingers crossed he's okay


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## 3Musketeers (Nov 4, 2010)

Maybe just keep upping his food intake a little more, add more fat too, at the same time, he DOES have a large boxish ribcage, so it's probably making him look funny and/or thinner than he actually is. He doesn't look emaciated or anything, just a little on the thin-side.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

meggels said:


> He goes Monday morning for his bloodwork. Fingers crossed he's okay


Really, Meg...don't stress this. He acts like a normal healthy dog. Sick dogs act sick...Yes, he's skinny, but skinny is healthy! Most people think pudgy dogs are healthy...they aren't. Especially the squishy faced breeds. The way he looked a year ago, he was pudgy and all the fat that most people see is on the surface. Guess what is covering and hindering every organ in his body when he is even slightly overweight? A layer of fat! 

Maybe a pound or two more would still be at a healthy weight...but I wouldn't let him get as pudgy as he was when he was showing IMHO.


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

3Musketeers said:


> Maybe just keep upping his food intake a little more, add more fat too, at the same time, he DOES have a large boxish ribcage, so it's probably making him look funny and/or thinner than he actually is. He doesn't look emaciated or anything, just a little on the thin-side.


Agreed...I, personally, would feed him as if he was suppose to be 25lbs...then once he looked the way I wanted cut back to down by an ounce or so and see how that goes. That is what I did when our Pug/x got down to 18lbs and I like him to be 20 even, I fed him like a 23lbs dog till he was at the look I wanted him to be then cut him back down!:wink:


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

I noticed when we switched to raw that my chuncky girl lost weight fast but my others looked like they lost weight when they actually just firmed up to a great muscle tone. They looked thin but weighed the same. They are happy and playful and have abundant energy so I leave it alone. My sheltie got too thin so she gets 10 - 12 ounces a day to maintain 20 - 21 pounds. Maybe his is just muscling up but a pound wouldn't hurt. Little dogs are harder to regulate in my opinion because every pound is so critical, one too many and they are over weight and one less and they look a little too skinny. Hoep he starts adding weight.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

Yup, he eats (HE LOVES HIS FOOD lol!), drinks normal, and plays normal. He's not a real energetic guy to begin with but he still chews on his bones and wrestles with Abbie every now and then. 

So fingers just crossed for clean blood work. I'll just up his food a little, maybe add a raw egg once or twice a week, and my dog food guy said to up him to one tablespoon of sardine oil instead of 1 teaspoon once a day just for the extra fat. 


Nat, I agree. He def was a little too uh...cushioned...in his show days LOL! Nice layer of fat that you could poke there....


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

Oh and Nat I agree...he's 20.3 right now. 22 is probably tops I think. MAYBE 23, again, I'd need to see how he looked. But I'm aiming for maybe 22.


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## funshine (Jan 21, 2010)

Sorry if I misunderstood, but is all the food premaid?
Do you know what the bone % is in those foods he eats?
Maybe there's too much bone and although he's getting the right amount of food, the bone content keeps the "quality" lower than meatybones. Just a thought though. And another thing I could think of maybe (and maybe again) some nutrients are lost since the meat in not eaten very fast from grinding. Or one more, maybe there's not enough fat.

Those are just possibilities though :smile:
Could you add some pieces of meat or even fatty cuts to the diet (if those are missing)? I would think those could do the satin ball trick if he needs to gain some weight.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

funshine said:


> Sorry if I misunderstood, but is all the food premaid?
> Do you know what the bone % is in those foods he eats?
> Maybe there's too much bone and although he's getting the right amount of food, the bone content keeps the "quality" lower than meatybones. Just a thought though. And another thing I could think of maybe (and maybe again) some nutrients are lost since the meat in not eaten very fast from grinding. Or one more, maybe there's not enough fat.
> 
> ...



He's on Vital Essentials which is a premade raw mixture. It's 99% meat, bone, organ, 1% kelp. Due to his gulping, I wanted to start with a ground mixture for my own sake and IMO from my research, this is the best one out there, and it's available locally and recommended highly from my "dog food guru" in town lol.

I've begun introducing RMB's to him in the form of duck necks and beef spare ribs. I would be open to getting him on the PMR style eventually but right now we are sticking with the premade. I don't know the bone percentage, but his poops look great IMO and he doesn't have trouble going (no straining or anything). 


He gets beef, a mixture of beef and chicken (60% beef, 40% chicken, it's a blend that is sold in 5lb rolls exclusively to certain retailers), and I am going to begin introducing their fish formula soon.


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