# Problem on Walks



## Jeriram (Mar 26, 2012)

Hi, I have two Scotties, littermates and have been trying to get them to go on walks without eating stuff (and getting sick), to move forward rather than sit down and refuse to move, and to not do I am not a small dog, I am a large dog who wants to growl at large dogs. We have taken two obedience classes and practiced, used martingale collars and recently (3 weeks ago) went to using gentle leaders. Although we have better control of their not eating stuff, they refuse to walk forward and often sit down on the walk (perhaps because one sees a squirrel), or the other one just is stubborn. So, should I forget the gentle leader? Go back to the martingale? Do something else?? Help!


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## Maxy24 (Mar 5, 2011)

Well they are all very different issues. How old are these dogs? If they are puppies sitting randomly in the middle of a walk is sort of normal, they don't get what a walk is yet, to them it's not different than hanging out in the yard. If they are adults then it's different. One issue could be fear, if a dog is nervous sitting down may be their way to try and get you to take them home. If it happens late in the walk it may simply be exhaustion. It could be because they see something they want and would rather not leave it. My dog has done this when he wants to sniff something and I won't let him or when he sees a rabbit. The best thing to do in that scenario is just showing the dog that it won't work, he still won't get to sniff what he wants or eat the bunny. I walk my dog on a harness and he is also small so I really have no qualms about saying "let's go" and then forcing him to move forward by pulling (not yanking). Since he's not on a collar it doesn't hurt him, and he's not one to flip out or get literally dragged along the ground, so it works for us. I would not do this with a collar or head halter, only a harness. You can also try something like having the dog target your hand for a treat to get him going or try running, I know my dog will usually come with me if I start to run. You could also try waiting the dog out, but it really depends on why the dog is sitting, if he's watching something sitting and being able to watch would be rewarding.

Eating stuff could be worked with in several ways. One would be what you are doing with the head halter. Teaching a solid leave it command would also be helpful. You may also consider teaching what is called a default leave it. This teaches the dog to never pick food up off of the ground without being given permission. If you teach this it's important you ALWAYS enforce it. This means if you drop something while cooking you can't just let the dog get it. If he goes for it you have to block it. If he doesn't go for it and you still want him to have it you'd have to either use a taught command that means he can get it or pick it up and hand it to him. To teach a default leave it check out this video (and look up "It's yer choice" and/or "doggie zen"): "It's Yer Choice" - YouTube
until you have the training completely done you'd need to make sure it's prevented on walks, use the head halter or just be ultra observant of potential edibles, or even have them wear basket muzzles. If you EVER see them look at something on the ground they would normally take and they choose to pass it by give them a treat, so always carry treats on walks, you want to reward that good behavior! Make sure you practice with other things and in different locations. You'll likely want to practice with garbage and other things that they try to eat on walks. Eventually set up a course of sorts with food and trash that you can walk the dog around so they get used to walking by the stuff on leash and just leaving it. Practice inside, the outside. 

As for growling at large dogs, the whole "he's pretending to be a big dog" thing has always bugged me. Big dogs don't go around growling at other dogs just because their big, your small dog is actually growling because he knows he's so small! and thus could easily be destroyed by these larger dogs. Generally a lot of socialization with large dogs will prevent this, they learn big dogs don't hurt them despite their ability to, and so don't worry about it. If your dogs are pups then you might still be able to just socialize them with large dogs. If they are already adults that likely won't work. I would try "Look at That" training. Basically whenever you walk by large dogs (if this is the situation that usually causes aggression) click (or say a certain word like "yes!") every time your dog glances at the large dog and then give a treat. Do this every single time your dog looks at the big dog, even if he's up the road. You want your dogs to start and get super excited when they see a large dog because they know large dogs coming makes you give out treats, and that's awesome. Their whole emotional outlook on dogs walking by will change. If both dogs are reactive you should probably walk them one at a time for this, it'll be very hard to try and manage two dogs who need to be marked and rewarded repeatedly. If they are not being aggressive towards passing dogs and it's a different scenario then I'll need more information.


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## Jeriram (Mar 26, 2012)

Hi Maxy 24 - thanks for responding! My scotties are 2 years old. They generally sit down when they can't have something. . . or when Rocket sees a squirrel or cat. I got the gentle leader collar because Rocket (the male) ate a palm seed and almost died in May. Because they are so low to the ground, it is difficult to control their head away from stuff on the ground. They know the "leave it" command, but are stubborn little guys and when they see something they want, sometimes they won't leave it, even with the promise of a reward. I didn't want to muzzel them as they really love people and most other dogs and I thought it would scare people off. However, they walked much better with Martingale collars. Should I go back to Martingales and use a muzzel? 

Walking them separately isn't an option for me right now - although I am sure that if I could training would be much easier as they play upon each other. These guys are highly socialized with both small and large dogs. However, when we moved in December to our new neighborhood, they started acting funny with larger dogs. Previously, they loved labs and even a large Akita. I have been having them sit when I see another dog approach and telling them to "stay". The gentle leader is helping with this alittle as they know that they can't get to them. I am not sure if it is aggressiveness or "I really want to play with them" - but I think it is aggressiveness with Rocket. One of the things I have also been doing is to show him that I am in charge thinking maybe he thought he needed to protect me. 

I have thought about getting someone to come out with me on the walks and evaluate what I should do, but it is very expensive. I really appreciate your help and ideas!


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## SaharaNight Boxers (Jun 28, 2011)

One command I think is absolutely needed is the "leave it" command. I would try to teach that and impulse control. They are terriers so they're just doing what might come naturally.


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## xchairity_casex (Oct 8, 2011)

You need to get these pups attention FIRST, if your are fun to the max, nothing else will get there attention quite like you

work in the yard first get some treats and some favorite toys and some squeeky toys. walk around happily in circles,boxes, lines ect.
EVERYTIME they sit down or there attention begins to drift off from you say happily
"oh yey! come on lets go this way!' and go into a jog, if that does not get there attention, bring out a toy and show it to them and then excitedly talk to them and get them following you in a jog then hand them the toy and keep jogging and bouncing around happily.

if that doesnt encourage them to follow you and watch you, use the squeeky toy and squeek it while bouncing around and trotting.

also it would be best to work with one dog at a time, once youve got both dogs wondering what your gonna do next, then you can put them together


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## Jeriram (Mar 26, 2012)

Hi everyone - thank you so much for the great advice. This is a wonderful blog with people who really love their little buddies! I have been trying all the advice. Bought a new squeeky toy that I am using. I also took Sheba off the gentle leader and back on the martingale and for her that is working. They are really good on the leave it command in the house or yard, but Rocket is a butthead about it on the walks. I will keep working on it. The u tube training clip is terriffic! Thank you so much everyone! By the way, how do you attach a photo to your name? Thanks!


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## Grey (Jul 6, 2012)

I had a similar behavioral issue with my dog. Quinn was bumped by a car when my father let her outside without a leash on when she was six months old (sore subject). After this, she was so scared to leave the house that she clawed at the sidewalk. She cowered whenever a car drove by and sat with her tail between her legs, looking absolutely miserable.

For weeks, I catered to her. After all, she's my baby! I didn't want her to be scared, so we stayed around the yard. Things didn't get any better. She continued to be so incredibly fearful. I decided to take her to a nearby trainer that was offering a free training session as a gift for the holidays. I thought it would be a waste of time, honestly.

What that trainer did within an hour with my dog changed everything back to normal.

He explained that I was mothering her too much and, while he was a bit more dominant than I am to this day, he put a prong collar on her. Many people think prong collars are bad (which is what I first thought), but gently "tugging" her to walk with me was the ONLY way she realized that she had to walk. I wasn't going to let her be scared anymore.

It was a bit uncomfortable at first. She clearly wasn't in pain, but she didn't know what to think. But, the prong collar seriously made all the difference for us -- and I'm someone who NEVER thought I'd suggest that.

Feel free to ask me any questions about it! 6 months later and we're walking confidently and normal again.


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## Jeriram (Mar 26, 2012)

Hi - Someone else suggested a prong collar this weekend. I have a card of a trainer that comes highly recommended. I am going to have her come on a walk with us and give us tips - Are you still using the collar?


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## Maxy24 (Mar 5, 2011)

I would not use a prong collar on a dog reactive dog. Every time the dog sees another dog he feels the pain of the collar and can become dog aggressive (or more dog aggressive) as a result. Dogs=pain.

What certification does this trainer have? APDT?


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## Grey (Jul 6, 2012)

Yes! We don't use it every single time on our walks anymore since she feels confident walking again, but we do use it if we're going to be around a lot of traffic as a precaution since she still doesn't love trucks.

We bought ours for $10 through the trainer. They're about double that at PetSmart when I looked. They come with extra links so, if their necks grow, you can expand it.

Let me know how it goes! I hope you have as much success as I did. Don't be dismayed if your dogs look uncomfortable at first since they're confused. It's more like a tug from the mother dog's mouth when they carried them around when they're younger. Trust me, once they learn that you're the "leader," it will be fine. 

And this is all coming from someone who admittedly babies her dog to death!

P.S. You can attach a photo to your name by going into "Settings" (top right of the page) and then "Edit Avatar." "Edit Profile Picture" is the picture on your profile, but the avatar is what will show up on your forum posts.


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## Grey (Jul 6, 2012)

Maxy24 said:


> I would not use a prong collar on a dog reactive dog. Every time the dog sees another dog he feels the pain of the collar and can become dog aggressive (or more dog aggressive) as a result. Dogs=pain.
> 
> What certification does this trainer have? APDT?


It's not "pain" -- it's only painful if you use the collar incorrectly. That's why you'd want to learn from a trainer so it's a gentle tugging and not a yaaaaank. I thought it was "PAIN!" at first, too.

The most important thing I learned about the entire experience was that, on walks, your dog needs to know that you're leading them -- they're not leading you. It helps you learn control. I didn't have that. When she has her prong collar on, she knows to casually stick close to me -- but she's never, ever afraid to put it on. She wags her tail eagerly for it because she knows we're going on a walk.

You just want to make sure you don't get to the point where they associate it with pain.


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## Maxy24 (Mar 5, 2011)

I don't believe in dominance theory, that being a "leader" will make your dog's bad behaviors go away. I believe in training. In your case you could choose how hard to tug the prong, when talking about a reactive dog they will run to the end of their leash and lunge, I've seen reactive dogs hit the end so hard they flip through the air. Doing that on a prong would most certainly hurt. Running to the end of the leash with force on a prong will hurt. Would you be willing to wear a prong, attach a leash, tie it to a stationary object, and run as fast and hard as you can to the end of your leash? Because that's what many aggressive/reactive dogs do. If they don't do that then the owner will still likely have to be dragging the dog on a prong while he is fighting to get to the other dog, dragging your dog's entire weight plus the force they are putting in to fight you on a prong must also hurt.

Your dog walks well on a leash because fighting it hurts (or perhaps is uncomfortable if she hasn't hit the end hard or been yanked hard), not because she sees you as the leader. She simply knows fighting or refusing to move is worse for her than facing her fear because the prongs are painful or uncomfortable. What makes you think it feels like a mom carrying a pup? I hear stuff like that all of the time "it is like a mom correcting her puppy!", 90% of a dog "correcting" another dog is body language and noise, and when contact is made I highly doubt it feels like a ring of pointy metal things surrounding the neck and sinking in. It's not some "natural" social thing, it works because it feels uncomfortable or painful and thus is punishing for the dog. Simple operant conditioning, nothing to do with dominance or being the leader. Your dog found the collar more painful or uncomfortable than the fear she felt about walking, so she chose the lesser of two evils. 

I doubt your dog knows the collar is what's causing the painful or uncomfortable sensation, and walks are really fun, so I'm sure she does get excited to see it. Just like dogs get excited to see shock collars if it means it's time for a trip to the park. That doesn't mean the shock doesn't hurt.

I'm not even completely anti-prong (though I am completely anti collar corrections), I just hate when people don't acknowledge that it works by causing pain or discomfort, and that's it.


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## Jeriram (Mar 26, 2012)

Thanks - I put up a picture of Sheba! I need one of the two of them together. After reading posts - I will wait to change their collar again until I work with a trainer. Thanks everyone! Great site!


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