# Surgery or not surgery?



## Boxers&Pom's Mom (Jan 17, 2011)

Looks like Cassie my 8 years old Boxer mess up her knee. She is been in pain killer pills for about three weeks and still limping. I was holding off to see if she gets better, but so far I don't see any improvement. I am taking her Friday for x rays, but was wondering if I should do surgery on her or if is another way to fix it. She is 8 years old already and I would prefer to fix it in another way. Any suggestion?


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## CavePaws (Jan 25, 2011)

There may be another way to fix it. Who knows until you get the x-ray results back in and a prognosis from the vet. I would research whatever injury she ends up having, research some holistic things you can do from home to aid in whatever is decided as the best plan for healing. Maybe look into a second opinion if the veterinarian talks about surgery...If she is healthy and strong right now at 8 with no other issues then I would consider surgery if it seems like the best route to recovery. Was it Cassie who had heart issues? I feel like I remember you posting about one of your pups having to see a doggy cardiologist - if the heart issue is still going on then surgery may be less of an option.


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

Is it front or back? I'm never for surgery if there is another way. I didn't want surgery for my Cayenne who had a luxating patella and luxated twice, vet said I seriously needed to consider surgery for her. I just took her to water therapy once a week for 1 1/2 yrs and all is good. So, water therapy may be an option depending on what kind of injury it is.


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

Sounds to me like she has a torn ACL. I don't think that will show up on x-rays. If thats the problem, she will definately need surgery, the sooner the better. This is the same knee injury that football players get.


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## auntiemissa (Apr 19, 2010)

my pit bull had torn her knee ligaments.the vet recommended the drug rimadyl.i did research as chose NOT to use that drug.i ended up switching vets and new vet put her on Metacam.u can get it at costco for like 10bucks for 3months supply.she ended up doing great on that for about a yr then got cancer and had to be put down.what meds is she on???? make u research any meds and get second opinion b4 surgery.it was gonna cost me 3500 bucks for surgery on each knee and the recovery process was gonna be keeping her confined in a small area such as bathroom for several weeks


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## chowder (Sep 7, 2008)

I had two chows that had knee surgery. Chows are prone to knee problems. The first one had it done years ago and just had it done the old fashioned way where they stabilized the torn ligaments with wire. She recovered just fine and she was 3 years old. She lived to be 10 and could run and play like normal. The second one had it done in a very new, modern facility where they used all the newest techniques, computers, lasers, etc ($3500). He was in so much pain when he woke up that they kept giving him more pain medication and they overdosed him and stopped his heart. He was just short of 4 years old.

My chow breeder has told me there are alternatives to the knee surgery such as physical therapy, that she recommends to any of her chow owners that end up needing it done on their dogs. I haven't looked into it, but I would if I have a future dog that needs to have it done. At least get a second opinion.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

chowder said:


> I had two chows that had knee surgery. Chows are prone to knee problems.


That explains why my chow mix tore the ligaments in both rear legs and ended up having two surgeries, and always limped on one of the legs. I didn't know they were prone to it.


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

auntiemissa said:


> my pit bull had torn her knee ligaments.the vet recommended the drug rimadyl.i did research as chose NOT to use that drug.i ended up switching vets and new vet put her on Metacam.


Both of these meds are nothing but pain meds. They treat symptoms and do nothing for the underlying problem (torn knee ligaments).


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## chowder (Sep 7, 2008)

xellil said:


> That explains why my chow mix tore the ligaments in both rear legs and ended up having two surgeries, and always limped on one of the legs. I didn't know they were prone to it.


Some Chow breeders have exaggerated their stilted gate too much and it leaves them open to knee injuries if you let them jump or run around too much. If you really examine some Chows back legs closely (especially under xray), it's a wonder they can run at all). There is a point where looks should not take priority over function in a breed.


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## Javadoo (May 23, 2011)

My 1 yo old lab girl Java tore both ACLs....she had 2 surgeries (TPLO) and is as good as new.
By not fixing the knees you are guaranteeing severe arthritis in the near future for your dog. If the knee is unstable scar tissue is going to build up to try to stabilize the knee and arthritis is going to set in quickly and it will be crippling. 
Surgery is the way to go.


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## auntiemissa (Apr 19, 2010)

well she hasnt stated what the actual diagnosis is yet right?? i guess depending on what xrays show we can go from there. i stated the use of pain meds for my dogs torn knee ligaments because i didnt have the 3500 bucks at the time for her surgery so the pain meds were to help until then.unfortunantly,she died of cancer a few years later. no one should be stating surgery is the only way to go until there is a diagnosis


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

3 weeks of limping with no improvment ... it's going to take surgery. A competent vet should be able to tell by minipulating the knee joint if it's an ACL. It took 3 different vets about 10 seconds each to tell me my Skylar had an ACL tear. These things don't fix themselves. They can't be fixed by meds. It takes surgery. There are a few different ways to fix ACL's, some more expensive than others. Cost me $1400 to fix Skylar and if I didn't have it, I would have borrowed it. No way in hell would I let her go "a few years" in pain when a few dollars would have fixed it in an hour.


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## angelbears (Jun 9, 2011)

My guy had a torn cruciate. After a lot of research on surgery, braces, and rest and we had the resources and living in Houston had a couple of renown clinics to choose from, we chose complete rest. I found that each one came in at about 50/50. With the brace being the less favorable. Cane made a full recovery. It took 3 months for him to recover but it has been well over a year and he shows no problem with his leg. When I say complete rest it was. Cane hated his crate and would fight to get out, so crating him was not an option. So, someone stayed with him 24/7. If we were not in the bedroom with the door closed, he was leashed and at my side. He was only allowed outside on the leash and only to relieve himself, no extra walking around. There is a lot more to it and if you chose to go with complete rest I will be more than happy to share more of our experience with you. Also, Phycox seemed to help tremendously. 

All dogs and situations are different. What was best for Cane may not be best for your baby. I just wanted to let you know that we did have success without surgery. Good luck and keep us posted.

Robin and the gang


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## Javadoo (May 23, 2011)

It should only take a couple of minutes for the vet to see if it is an ACL injury.
The vet should do a drawer test and a tibial thrust test-these are the only definitive ways to diagnose an ACL tear. X-rays will not show a tear. Both tests can be done without sedation. Very easy.
My vet knew Java tore her ACL the minute he walked in the room-just by the way she was sitting. When they have ACL injuries, dogs will sit with the injured leg kicked out to the side and not sit straight up and down. 
The surgeries are expensive-Java had 2 TPLOs, at a cost of just over $10,000 for both. 
But-she was only a year old......and she's my baby girl, so it was worth every penny.


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## auntiemissa (Apr 19, 2010)

*RawFedDogs* im glad u had the money right away to fix your dogs knee problem. 1400 bucks is ALOT easier to come up with than 3500 im sorry to say.And my dog was NOT in pain those few years.After almost a year on Metacam,she was able to go off it and never once showed signs of pain.limping etc. maybe i just got lucky?who knows? i would NOT have ever let her "suffer" had she been in pain at all!!!!! im not disagreeing with surgery,i just stated that the pain meds might work while u get the money and surgery organized.....


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

auntiemissa said:


> And my dog was NOT in pain those few years.After almost a year on Metacam,she was able to go off it and never once showed signs of pain.limping etc. maybe i just got lucky?


Thats not what you said in your previous post. You said in that post, "_so the pain meds were to help until then. unfortunantly,she died of cancer a few years later._" The implication in that statement is that she tood the pain meds for a few years until she died.


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## auntiemissa (Apr 19, 2010)

whatever i said or however u took it i basically was just stating that metacam worked for my dog.she wasnt even on it for a year.she stopped showing signs of limping/pain after a few months.we kept it on hand and rarely used it.sometimes with big expensive surgeries/procedures it takes some of us a bit of time to get the money.using meds is an option i went for.


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## Boxers&Pom's Mom (Jan 17, 2011)

auntiemissa said:


> my pit bull had torn her knee ligaments.the vet recommended the drug rimadyl.i did research as chose NOT to use that drug.i ended up switching vets and new vet put her on Metacam.u can get it at costco for like 10bucks for 3months supply.she ended up doing great on that for about a yr then got cancer and had to be put down.what meds is she on???? make u research any meds and get second opinion b4 surgery.it was gonna cost me 3500 bucks for surgery on each knee and the recovery process was gonna be keeping her confined in a small area such as bathroom for several weeks


Thank You! I decide to wait until next week to do xrays on her, so tomorrow I am going to Costco and buy this medicine. At lest she is better until next Friday. I do have Pet Insurance for her, but I am not sure that I want for her to have surgery. She is 8 years old already and is healthy, but you know, I need to think it more. Thank you for posting.


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## Boxers&Pom's Mom (Jan 17, 2011)

Angelbears, thank you for offering to help. I can not even think in anyway to get that amount of money for a surgery in this moment. I am going to take her for xrays next Friday, and we a diagnostic done we will go for there. So, as soon I have a diagnosis I will message you for your help.



angelbears said:


> My guy had a torn cruciate. After a lot of research on surgery, braces, and rest and we had the resources and living in Houston had a couple of renown clinics to choose from, we chose complete rest. I found that each one came in at about 50/50. With the brace being the less favorable. Cane made a full recovery. It took 3 months for him to recover but it has been well over a year and he shows no problem with his leg. When I say complete rest it was. Cane hated his crate and would fight to get out, so crating him was not an option. So, someone stayed with him 24/7. If we were not in the bedroom with the door closed, he was leashed and at my side. He was only allowed outside on the leash and only to relieve himself, no extra walking around. There is a lot more to it and if you chose to go with complete rest I will be more than happy to share more of our experience with you. Also, Phycox seemed to help tremendously.
> 
> All dogs and situations are different. What was best for Cane may not be best for your baby. I just wanted to let you know that we did have success without surgery. Good luck and keep us posted.
> 
> Robin and the gang


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## angelbears (Jun 9, 2011)

Boxers&Pom'sMom We will keep our fingers crossed that it is nothing but a minor strain. 

A couple of things that have already been mentioned and is common sense but worth repeating. 

1. While on any pain meds, she may seem to be doing much better, this may not be true. Don't let her over do it.

2. Keep her as slim as possible

I'm no expert but I will be more than happy to help in anyway that I can, just message me


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## Boxers&Pom's Mom (Jan 17, 2011)

Xrays done today, Everything looks like is a ligament. I decide not to do surgery on her since she is 8 years old Boxer and like to try first with Acupuncture.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Sorry it's a ligament. It seems like bones may actually be easier to fix. i hope the treatments work without surgery.


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

I think you are once again making a mistake. I told you 2 1/2 weeks ago she had a torn ACL and I'm telling you now that accupuncture will have absolutely no effect on it. She should have had surgery over a week ago. The longer you wait, the more perminant irrepariable damage is done to her knee joint. Her age of 8 years should have no effect on your decision. Your dog should have at least 4 or more years left in her life. My Skylar was 10 years old when she had her surgery.


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## Boxers&Pom's Mom (Jan 17, 2011)

Bill,
She is a Boxer. Life Spam in Boxers are 10 years. I wish she live forever, but it is not the case.


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

It's difficult to pinpoint the life expectancy of any breed. It depends on who you ask but i've seen Boxer lifes expectancy listed up to 14 years. But even if she has just 2 more years, I would strongly encourage surgery.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

there was a discussion a while back about situations such as this one.....and having the means to take care of a dog if he or she is injured...

if this boxer tore a ligament, she is in agony. she had x rays done today. are the ligaments torn?

beg, borrow or steal the funds, but please get surgery for this dog.

not all boxers die at age ten and since you've started her on raw, chances are, she will live longer...

but if you don't treat this knee....and aren't with her 24/7 to keep her off the leg.....then you may as well put her down now..

because what i hear you saying is you don't have the funds, and even if you did, she's too old to have surgery and will only live for another two years....

which in my book would be two years of hell....and i would not sentence the last two years of a dog's life to hell...

i don't understand.

five dollars a week in a jar would have paid for a surgery....if you had done that for 8 years.....

if it sounds judgmental, i'm sorry and i do apologise, but letting a dog suffer is just not something i can wrap my head around.


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## Boxers&Pom's Mom (Jan 17, 2011)

I have Vet Insurance for her. I discussed all these with her vet. She is not in agony. She still play and looks happy. I will take a video of her, so you can all see her. She even sometimes walk with her four legs. Believe me if I see her suffering I will do whatever. I am more concern with her getting into a big surgery. Surgery is not yet out, but I will like to try something else. I heard success stories that dogs that recoup without surgery. She is not crying or looks sad at all.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

what did the vet say.....does she have a torn ligament?


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## Boxers&Pom's Mom (Jan 17, 2011)

That what he think she has Magicre. I did not let him sedate her and he told me he needs to sedate her, to check for that. I feel really bad that some people think that I am making a mistake, even suggested that I should put her to sleep if I am not doing surgery. I know my dog. She is like my child and you can be sure I will not let her been in agony. I know someone that did surgery in her dog and the Physical Therapist told her that it was not necessary. I am monitoring her and she is been treat like a Princess. I even put ice packs inher knee and give her massages that she seems to enjoy very much


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## CavePaws (Jan 25, 2011)

Boxer&Poms mom, I will take your word for it that your dog is not in agony. When Indi jumped a kennel and was hanging from her leg she didn't have any damage to the bone, just a lot of soft tissue damage. We were very thankful she did not tear anything or hurt her hip. I was so worried she would need surgery when it first happened, then they gave me the x-rays, told me to wait a few weeks and see how much weight she was putting on it. I had her on pain medication for a couple of weeks, I watched her slowly start putting weight on it, and what I examined was a dog slowly recovering. I kept her as lean as I could, didn't exercise her except for very short walks on grass, did my own "water" therapy with massages, and over all took things very slow even as improvement was seen. How long has your pup been on pain meds and what is the dosage? One issue I have with pain medication - and lots of other medications - is that dogs have a short life span, staying on pain medication for a long time will have effects if the dosage is high enough. When she is due for another dose is she still trying to put weight on it or is she keeping it completely off the ground? This is how I judged if my dog was truly healing. I feel like pain medication can really mask the problem and I had a hard time telling at first if Indi was really healing.

I was told if I did not see some improvement within a few weeks my dog needed to go to an orthopedic veterinarian and **possibly** have surgery for what was going on. This was the worst case scenario but I was ready to do it if need be. I would have borrowed the money if I had to - and I know you would do anything you could for Cassie if you were told by a top notch vet that she would never heal unless she had surgery.

My fingers are crossed for you...Have you thought of taking her to an orthopedic veterinarian for a specialists opinion on what is going on? Bill is right when he says the longer something is left untreated the more irreparable the damage is. Pain medication masks the problem...So if she is putting weight on it with the pain medication that really isn't a definite indication of healing.


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## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

I think too what happens with torn ligaments/tendons is that when they break initially, the surgeon can still pull the broken ends of the tendon together, stitch then and then order complete rest until it heals together. The longer you leave it however, the more the tendons retract and they also get spongier. So if surgery is put off for too long, the surgeon has an awful job to try and stretch the tendon back into place and then with the tendon being spongy, often the stitches simply can't hold and then the surgery fails.
Ask my husband. Idiot. (I mean, he's the idiot, not you).


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

When Skylar tore her ACL years ago, the orthapedic surgeon replaced the ACL with a nylon cord if my memory serves me correctly.


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## Boxers&Pom's Mom (Jan 17, 2011)

CavePaws said:


> Boxer&Poms mom, I will take your word for it that your dog is not in agony. When Indi jumped a kennel and was hanging from her leg she didn't have any damage to the bone, just a lot of soft tissue damage. We were very thankful she did not tear anything or hurt her hip. I was so worried she would need surgery when it first happened, then they gave me the x-rays, told me to wait a few weeks and see how much weight she was putting on it. I had her on pain medication for a couple of weeks, I watched her slowly start putting weight on it, and what I examined was a dog slowly recovering. I kept her as lean as I could, didn't exercise her except for very short walks on grass, did my own "water" therapy with massages, and over all took things very slow even as improvement was seen. How long has your pup been on pain meds and what is the dosage? One issue I have with pain medication - and lots of other medications - is that dogs have a short life span, staying on pain medication for a long time will have effects if the dosage is high enough. When she is due for another dose is she still trying to put weight on it or is she keeping it completely off the ground? This is how I judged if my dog was truly healing. I feel like pain medication can really mask the problem and I had a hard time telling at first if Indi was really healing.
> 
> I was told if I did not see some improvement within a few weeks my dog needed to go to an orthopedic veterinarian and **possibly** have surgery for what was going on. This was the worst case scenario but I was ready to do it if need be. I would have borrowed the money if I had to - and I know you would do anything you could for Cassie if you were told by a top notch vet that she would never heal unless she had surgery.
> 
> My fingers are crossed for you...Have you thought of taking her to an orthopedic veterinarian for a specialists opinion on what is going on? Bill is right when he says the longer something is left untreated the more irreparable the damage is. Pain medication masks the problem...So if she is putting weight on it with the pain medication that really isn't a definite indication of healing.


CavePaw, 
Thank you for trusting me. I will look for an Orthopedic Vet and take her for a second opinion. I am also like to say that she is in any pain medication as yet.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

Boxers&Pom's Mom said:


> That what he think she has Magicre. I did not let him sedate her and he told me he needs to sedate her, to check for that. I feel really bad that some people think that I am making a mistake, even suggested that I should put her to sleep if I am not doing surgery. I know my dog. She is like my child and you can be sure I will not let her been in agony. I know someone that did surgery in her dog and the Physical Therapist told her that it was not necessary. I am monitoring her and she is been treat like a Princess. I even put ice packs inher knee and give her massages that she seems to enjoy very much


i know you love your dog and i know you see her as too old to put her through surgery and i'm not suggesting you put her to sleep....but i am suggesting that you allow the sedation which is very light and i allowed it for my almost 12 year old dog.....i promise you it's very light, the sedations they use. just enough to keep the dog still....

if it is a torn acl...then she is hurting.....and i know you don't want that for your girl.....even if she has two years or ten years of life, if surgery is indicated and i am not one to push surgery for man nor beast.....

either some pretty intensive physical therapy in cluding water therapy is needed or surgery...

and since you do have insurance and you work long hours....it is an option to consider.

please don't feel badly. in the end, it's our opinions, but it's your dog...and you have to do what you think is best.


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## werecatrising (Oct 15, 2010)

I know you love your dog and are trying to do what's best for her. I feel that since I see at least a few dogs with torn acl's a month at work I should throw my 2 cents in.

There is no way she isn't hurting. Most dogs are far more stoic in their response to pain than humans are. Her not moping around all day isn't a sign that she is comfortable.

The most concerning part is her moving around on the unstable joint. The more she uses it and the longer she goes, the more arthritis she is going to have. I wish I could show you x rays of some of the dogs we've seen with ruptured cruciates whose owners decided against surgery. They are horrendous.I don't understand how some of these dogs even walk.

I know it probably says in print somewhere that the lifespan of a boxer is 10 years. The one I had lived until 13. I'd have to say the average age I see boxers live to is about 12. Can you imagine if Cassie reached 10 with no heart, cancer, organ issues? If everything was fine aside from the fact that she was in so much pain she couldn't walk? I don't think that is a chance I'd want to take.


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## Boxers&Pom's Mom (Jan 17, 2011)

werecatrising said:


> I know you love your dog and are trying to do what's best for her. I feel that since I see at least a few dogs with torn acl's a month at work I should throw my 2 cents in.
> 
> There is no way she isn't hurting. Most dogs are far more stoic in their response to pain than humans are. Her not moping around all day isn't a sign that she is comfortable.
> 
> ...


I called the vet again. We probably are going to go with surgery. I don't like to talk about our financial problems at this moment, but we are in really bad shape. For me to take my girls to the vet and do everything that I do for them means a lot a lot of sacrifices. I am not a crying baby, I am talking from my heart. Please, keep us in your prayers.


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## cprcheetah (Jul 14, 2010)

I am not in any way trying to persuade you not to have surgery, but I am on a yahoo group where several people have 'conservatively' managed and 'healed' their dogs ACL's without surgery. Here is the link for that group: ConservativeManagement : Canine Conservative Management

Here are a couple of links:
Dog Knee and Leg Injury, Canine Cruciate Ligament Recovery, TPLO Surgery, CCL Injury Diagnosis, Dog Knee Brace Information - Part 2

This site is very informative:
Dog Ligament Injury-- Is Surgery Really Needed?

I know if Shellie tore her ACL at the moment, I would probably have to do conservative management, my hubby and I both just started new jobs, my dad/vet isn't set up for that type of surgery right now, and we wouldn't be approved for Care Credit, so I feel your pain. Now if it happens in a few months after hubby's training is over, and next year when we move to a cheaper place....I wouldn't have any hesitation to have surgery done on her....but it never happens at the 'right moment' so to speak lol. Anyways hope those links help you.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Boxers&Pom's Mom said:


> I called the vet again. We probably are going to go with surgery. I don't like to talk about our financial problems at this moment, but we are in really bad shape. For me to take my girls to the vet and do everything that I do for them means a lot a lot of sacrifices. I am not a crying baby her, I am talking with my heart. I even sacrifices many thing for them to have health insurance. We have something in mind and I will make a decision this weekend. I asked the vet about her having pain and the vet told me that he move her knee back and forth and she did not look it hurt at all, but I am also heard about dogs are with pain. It all is making me very sad.  Hopefully I find the way to have surgery on her. Please, keep us in your prayers.


Good luck. I have been there, with a dog needing surgery and not having the financial means to do it. It's very frustrating and my dog's three ACL surgeries (no insurance back then and I made barely enough to cover mortgage and food) just about put me into bankruptcy. Most of us go through periods in life when we are better off financially than other times, and we just have to pray our dogs don't need something major when we are poor.

But I do agree about the pain - my dachshund can be in really bad pain from her spinal arthritis and the only thing I notice is that she seems a little tired and maybe her tail is tucked under. It took me awhile to figure out what the signs are. Dogs just don't have pain responses like people do - they do everything they can to hide it.


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## Boxers&Pom's Mom (Jan 17, 2011)

cprcheetah said:


> I am not in any way trying to persuade you not to have surgery, but I am on a yahoo group where several people have 'conservatively' managed and 'healed' their dogs ACL's without surgery. Here is the link for that group: ConservativeManagement : Canine Conservative Management
> 
> Here are a couple of links:
> Dog Knee and Leg Injury, Canine Cruciate Ligament Recovery, TPLO Surgery, CCL Injury Diagnosis, Dog Knee Brace Information - Part 2
> ...


Thank You. I am going to check that site!


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## Boxers&Pom's Mom (Jan 17, 2011)

xellil said:


> Good luck. I have been there, with a dog needing surgery and not having the financial means to do it. It's very frustrating and my dog's three ACL surgeries (no insurance back then and I made barely enough to cover mortgage and food) just about put me into bankruptcy. Most of us go through periods in life when we are better off financially than other times, and we just have to pray our dogs don't need something major when we are poor.
> 
> But I do agree about the pain - my dachshund can be in really bad pain from her spinal arthritis and the only thing I notice is that she seems a little tired and maybe her tail is tucked under. It took me awhile to figure out what the signs are. Dogs just don't have pain responses like people do - they do everything they can to hide it.


It is weird, because Cassie doesn't have any sign of pain. She is even more active and playful now than before. She has improved a lot in the last couple months. I am not sure if it is because she had lost over 8 lbs or because the raw feeding. She is eating normal and her allergies are under control. She wants to run like she had not done for years. If you look at her you can never say that she is in any pain, but who knows!


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## Boxers&Pom's Mom (Jan 17, 2011)

We are really straggly to make the basics house payments including the mortgage. It is very important for us since we need to have a roof over our head for the pets, my senior mom and my husband and I. We did not get any Public Assistance either. So we are doing it with a lot of sacrifices. The dogs are well take care, but is very hard at this moment find $1500 for the surgery. I am talking with one of my children to see if they can apply to the Health Credit Line, so at least we can do it and pay it off with her Insurance paid us back. I can not get why vets do not work with Insurance Companies like Humans Doctors and Hospital does.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

Boxers&Pom's Mom said:


> We are really straggly to make the basics house payments including the mortgage. It is very important for us since we need to have a roof over our head for the pets, my senior mom and my husband and I. We did not get any Public Assistance either. So we are doing it with a lot of sacrifices. The dogs are well take care, but is very hard at this moment find $1500 for the surgery. I am talking with one of my children to see if they can apply to the Health Credit Line, so at least we can do it and pay it off with her Insurance paid us back. I can not get why vets do not work with Insurance Companies like Humans Doctors and Hospital does.


i don't understand either, these pet insurance companies....but i'm glad you are doing the surgery.....

i'm also sorry you're in this position, financially.....i think, at one time or another, we all faced this horrid choice with a beloved animal.....

whether to pay the mortgage or do surgery that costs an arm or a leg.....it's a tough choice, especially for a senior dog....and she is considered senior....

it's just the pain she must be in is probably horrendous...and maybe i'll come out on the wrong side of this, but i will say two things...

one. the moment you get a puppy, start putting money away for situations such as this.

two. if you simply cannot afford this, call agencies and see if there is any help from boxer rescue groups, which i know are hurting, too...or put her to sleep. at least, then she won't be in any pain. and i'm sorry that i say this, but if there is no money, there is no money....if the vet won't take payments over time, and you can't keep a roof over your head during this particular time in your life.....then sometimes death is not the enemy.

i won't for a minute judge and say that i've ever had to walk in your shoes. i have not. and no one has the right to judge you either.

but one way or the other, she needs to be out of pain. talk to your vet. see if he or she will help you out in this situation.


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## angelbears (Jun 9, 2011)

I hate to go against some of the very wise voices on this board but once again I must state that surgery isn't the only option and you don't have to make that decision today! More than likely your dog will have some arthritis just because of the injury but I was told we had a least 6 months to make the decision on surgery. This is one of the main reasons we decided against surgery immediately. Conservative management worked and we didn't have to do the surgery. I don't want to sound snotty but I keep hearing "If it was my dog I would find a way to afford it". We had the money to do the surgery but after a ton of research we truly felt this was the best thing to do for our dog. 

Which ever you chose you have to limit physical activity. Surgery will not work with out it. So, please don't let your dog run about. Below is a website that discusses the many different options you have with input from people who have tried them. 

Conservative Management Instead of TPLO Surgery for CCL | Dog Knee and Leg Injury, Canine Cruciate Ligament Recovery, TPLO Surgery, CCL Injury Diagnosis, Dog Knee Brace Information

Good Luck


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## Boxers&Pom's Mom (Jan 17, 2011)

cprcheetah said:


> I am not in any way trying to persuade you not to have surgery, but I am on a yahoo group where several people have 'conservatively' managed and 'healed' their dogs ACL's without surgery. Here is the link for that group: ConservativeManagement : Canine Conservative Management
> 
> Here are a couple of links:
> Dog Knee and Leg Injury, Canine Cruciate Ligament Recovery, TPLO Surgery, CCL Injury Diagnosis, Dog Knee Brace Information - Part 2
> ...


There is great information. I am already giving her fish oil pills and Cytil. I can not believe she is in any pain. Even the vet told me that he turn her knee and move it around and she did not show any sign of pain. I can say if is not for the limping, she looks a lot better than 6 months ago. Probably is the weight lost and the raw feeding. Before she was acting like an old dog, lately she acts like a young puppy. I have to keep her in a leash, so she doesn't run or play. Cassie was not in a leash for a very long time.


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