# Rotating proteins



## chichi_mom (Aug 8, 2012)

Hi All! So, Rio's shipment from mypetcarnivore.com is coming in today.. yay!  He is new on raw...has been on chicken (plus bone, plus organ) for almost a month now. I ordered a variety of different proteins (all whole animal ground) - Turkey, Young Beef, Duck, Chicken, Green beef tripe, goat, and rabbit. A total of 27 lbs of food, which should last him a good 3 months or so. I am thinking of bagging the food per week (since I need to slowly introduce proteins). For example, I would bag 22.4 oz of goat, 22.4 oz of duck, etc and would feed goat the first week, slowing introduce duck the 2nd week, and so on with the other proteins. Is that ok?? Then my plan is to switch protein sorces daily (not per meal). Is it ok to rotate protein sources daily or even every other day?? I know a lot of people rotate with each meal, but I think that would cause Rio some digestive upset. Even if it wouldn't, I would really like to rotate daily or everyother day. Hoping its fine to do it that way.


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

You can rotate proteins every other day if you want, that's fine. However, if you are only a month in it is way to early for organs or red meats. Red meats are the last proteins to introduce, and organs won't be fed for about three months.


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## LilasMom (Mar 10, 2012)

When feeding raw you need to transition slowly, rushing a bunch of different proteins on him will make the transition a lot harder on him than necessary. You have already done chicken for a few weeks, so now you do just turkey for a few weeks, and then pork for a few weeks, and then beef for a few weeks, and then finally organ meat. I am now sure where duck is on the richness scale, but goat and rabbit shouldn't be introduced for a few months. Depending on how your dogs poo is at the end of the few weeks, you can then move on to a different protein. Some people don't introduce organ meat until around 6 months or so. Once he has transitioned to a new food after a few weeks, you can add it into the rotation. Some of the stuff you bought he just won't be ready to handle for several weeks.


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## chichi_mom (Aug 8, 2012)

Thank you  He has been getting some Primal Rabbit Premade Frozen along with the chicken for the past week and half. His poops look really good, and he is doing great. I'm thinking about doing the chicken (which he is mainly on) and adding in the whole ground chicken, verrry slowly. Then the turkey, then rabbit, etc. There were a couple of days when I forgot to take out of the freezer some of his chicken, and that day he ended up getting just the Primal Rabbit - and he was doing really good.


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

Are you wanting to feed PMR? If so, you won't be feeding much ground.


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## chichi_mom (Aug 8, 2012)

*Thanks~!*

I am not doing the "traditional" PMR...with whole bone left in, etc. Since he was on premade raw for a bit, and was doing great, I think I'll be fine on the whole ground mixes as long as I keep the blander meats first on the list and move along. And I plan on taking it slow.. 1-2 weeks per protein source. My thing is....is that if i'm doing 2 weeks of chicken, 2 weeks of turkey, 2 weeks of rabbit, etc....Once he has had all those proteins and assuming he did fine on them..its good to just give him that protien source whenever?? I understand the whole ground mix isn't *ideal*, but that's all I can really do at the moment, espeically since I spent a good amount on all of it.


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## chichi_mom (Aug 8, 2012)

The bones scare me, so I won't do the traditional pmr diet. I think the ground mixes are close, except for the whole bone aspect. Rio does not chomp bones like he should...I gave him chicken with bone in once, and he kept breaking pretty big chunks off and just swallowing..nearly choking everytime he did that. Just not worth it in my situation.


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

Once transitioned, yes you can do any protein whenever. The problem with just ground only, is no bone and not just the fetal part. Bone provides nutrients your dog won't be getting. With pre made there is at least ground bone. Also, you can help teach your dog to learn to chew bone. You can take a hammer or kitchen mallet and mash the bone to make it easy in the beginning. But my concern is the lack of nutrients bone supplies, calcium being one.


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

Bone also helps to keep the poop firm too.


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## SterlingValleyGoldens (Aug 12, 2012)

naturalfeddogs said:


> Once transitioned, yes you can do any protein whenever. The problem with just ground only, is no bone and not just the fetal part. Bone provides nutrients your dog won't be getting. With pre made there is at least ground bone. Also, you can help teach your dog to learn to chew bone. You can take a hammer or kitchen mallet and mash the bone to make it easy in the beginning. But my concern is the lack of nutrients bone supplies, calcium being one.


It sounded like she's feeding "Bone-in" ground, so the bone is there just grounded with the meat. Although, I can be wrong.


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## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

The reason I don't feed ground is because ground isn't going to give you any dental benefits. 

I know what it's like to have a dog that doesn't seem to be able to eat bones. He gulps. He is capable of swallowing a chicken quarter whole. He has ever swallowed a 2 lb chunk of beef heart whole. He doesn't chew. If it can go down the hatch whole he WILL choke it down, gagging and coughing all the way. 

So we feed his meals to him frozen if they are something he could swallow whole. Frozen is a heck of a lot more unforgiving so they can't squish it down their throats and have to saw off smaller pieces.

He has gotten much better about chewing too. He hasn't tried to swallow something whole in a couple of months now. He is starting to slow down when he eats. Don't let bones scare you. If bones were that scary we would all be feeding ground too


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## chichi_mom (Aug 8, 2012)

I am feeding the whole ground mix..bone included just that it's ground bone. 

And I honestly can't get over him just gulping the bone down..it really scares me. Thought I wad going to have to do the doggy Hamlisch Manuever a couple of times. It just scared me. I've been giving him bully sticks to help with his chewing. Maybe one day..but i dont know


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## LilasMom (Mar 10, 2012)

You can teach him to chew. Just hang on to one end of the chicken wing so he has to chew off pieces to get it. 

If you feed ground only, not only do you miss out on the amazing dental benefits, you miss out on the mental stimulation. Chewing bones is great for both their physical and emotional health.

Also, ground meat has a much higher surface area than whole meat, so there is higher risk of bacteria.


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## chichi_mom (Aug 8, 2012)

I was holding one end of the chicken thigh. He broke of a pretty big piece and just swallowed, and gaged. The same thing happened again. 
How much of a higher risk is there with grounded mixes? It can't be that much higher, but I don't know.


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

Choking doesnt just happen with bones. As I stated earlier this week in another thread our Basset growing up choked very badly quite a few times on kibble, and Keeva has choked a couple times-decently badly-on ground meats. 
Dogs can, and have, died from choking on kibble, canned, grounds, and more.

Dogs dont chew per what us humans think, they cant due to how their jaws are built...they crunch, we are lucky to get one or two crunches out of most of our dogs. The "gagging" that you witnessed could have easily been a natural "horking" reaction....their bodies naturally pull things that are just slightly too big back up so that they can make them smaller before sending them back down!:wink: 

Dogs just need to be allowed to be dogs, and they will "get" it!:wink:


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Another downside to feeding only ground meats, is that the nutrient loss is sizable. When the meat and bone and organ are ground, all the good stuff is exposed to oxygen. Most nutrients are sensitive to oxygen, thus degrading in its presence. Therefore feeding a whole chicken wing unground is far more nutrient dense than the same chicken wing that has been ground up, processed (shoved through tubing and put in a wrapper, or whatever), frozen, and then thawed. 

If you are really that unnerved by feeding whole RMBs or whole chunks of meat, I would highly suggest investing in your own meat and bone grinder. That way you can grind all of his meals fresh, thus minimizing the nutrient degradation. 

As far as transitioning through proteins, I would hold off on red meats for another few weeks and organs another month or two. Alternate your proteins either by day or by meal depending on how many times per day your dog is fed. When adding in something new for the first time, take it slow and "sandwich" that new meal by two meals that you know he does well on like bone in chicken. Then wait a few days to add it in again. By the time you're done going through all the proteins, you should be able to feed a different protein source every day of the week, if not longer than that. It all depends on what you can source. 

Good luck and I hope this helps.


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## chichi_mom (Aug 8, 2012)

DaneMama said:


> When adding in something new for the first time, take it slow and "sandwich" that new meal by two meals that you know he does well on like bone in chicken. Then wait a few days to add it in again. By the time you're done going through all the proteins, you should be able to feed a different protein source every day of the week, if not longer than that. It all depends on what you can source.


When I start to add stuff in..Like lets say in a month I start adding in the whole ground chicken SLOWLY. I would feed his normal chicken in the morning. Then afternoon I would feed some of the whole ground chicken. Then for dinner, his normal chicken again. Is that how it works? I was thinking to add a tiny bit of the whole ground chicken to his normal chicken in one meal, and as time goes on, keep on increasing that amount to his normal meal. But i'm kind of thinking that's not the way to do it, by what you've mentioned. 

A HUGE question I have is....once that protein source is introduced and assuming he does well on it, taht can be fed whenever? Even if it may be 4 days before he gets that protein source again? My understand was (and I think I'm wrong) - That I'm suppose to go thru all of the proteins first..for example: two weeks he'd be on JUST whole ground chicken, then for the next two weeks he would be on JUST whole ground turkey, etc. Then once I'm done going thru the proteins, I am ok to feed whatever. But if I do it that way, it would be probably about 3-4 months before he would be on the chicken again since I have so many proteins to rotate. Or am I suppose to be mixing the proteins as I go along with the ones he's been introduced to as the main meals?? Gahhhh, sorry.. I'm really confused and just want to do this right.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

You should integrate the new proteins into your weekly meal plan, like if you're introducing pork into the mix of chicken and turkey: 

Monday: Chicken
Tuesday: SMALL meal of pork
Wednesday: Chicken
Thursday: Turkey
Friday: Chicken
Satruday: SMALL meal of pork
Sunday: Chicken
Monday: Turkey
Tuesday: Chicken
Wednesday: Pork
Thursday: Chicken
Friday: turkey
Saturday: chicken
Sunday: pork

Does that make sense? You don't want to feed just one protein exclusively except for the first few weeks of the transition with chicken. After that you integrate them alternating them by meal or by day.


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## chichi_mom (Aug 8, 2012)

GOT IT...Makes a ton more sense!! :biggrin: THANK YOU VERY MUCH, its appreciated! I was thinking I had to do each protein source for approx. 2 weeks, and then start integrating them. I had it totally backwards


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