# Raw Feeding Questions from a Future Breeder



## Esori (May 7, 2011)

Hello, I am new to this thread but so far I'm enjoying what I've read. I'm very much interested in the idea of raw feeding my (future) dogs but I had some questions as to how to feed _many_ dogs. I've noticed that many of the members here have multiple large dogs that they raw feed so I think I'm in the right place to get my answer. :becky:

So, in the future I am very much interested in raising East German Shepherds and I'd love to raise them all raw, which is clearly the best, healthiest, if not most convenient thing to do for them. Feeding 1 or 2 GSDs would not be all that difficult or even take up that much time to prepare or space in the fridge. But in order to have a breeding program, seems to me you need more than 1 or 2. So I've been trying to figure out how to feed a potential limit of 10 GSDs. I don't know if I'd actually get to that number but it's best to plan for the most and hope to fall under that, right? 

So the way I figure it, an 80lb GSD would need in the neighborhood of 2lbs of meat a day, or 60lbs a month. Thus, 10 GSDs would need 600lbs a month or 7200lbs a year. I'll focus on 600lbs a month. Where would you get so much meat, and how much would you expect to pay per pound? What's more, where would you even store it? I saw a post (forgot which one) that said that the largest freezer size would hold only aobut 500lbs. Although I guess I could combine a large storage freezer with an actual fridge/freezer combo . . . that might work. But how do you come about so much food? And what if you don't live anywhere near a butcher? (I don't know if I will or wont 'cause I won't be here when I get my pups) 

Also, I saw that most people feed their dogs on chicken since it is the most inexpensive of the meats at usually less than $1 a lb, but these by and large tend to be factory chickens who live in horrible, inhumane conditions. An enterprise I intend to stop supporting once I am in a better situation (I barely support it now as it is). Does anyone here source their meat mostly or exclusively from humanely treated (or even organically humanely treated) animals? If so, how much does that usually cost compared to the factory farmed animals? 

One more thing I was wondering . . . has anyone considered the idea of raising your own dogs' food? I started toying with it as an idea to try to save cost on buying food someone else has raised and prepared. It let me down a very interesting path of possibilities. Apparently pigs breed like very big rabbits :smile:

Oh, and I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions for what I could do when I went out of town? I'll be showing and competing with my dogs quite a bit and was wondering if anyone had any tips for leaving dogs frequently who were being raw feed. An idea I was thinking about before deciding on raw was to get a timed feeding for each of my dogs and filling it with 3 days worth of food - the typical weekend I will be traveling. Clearly you can't do this with raw. (in this scenario the dogs are separated in large individual pens with very large runs so they aren't eating each other's food)

I think that's it. If there's anything else you think I should know about raw feeding a potentially large number of working dogs, feel free to share. Otherwise, I look forward to all the responses and it's very nice to meet all of you :smile:


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

*10 gsd*

I purchase from my co-op and from a meat processor. Chicken is .80 or less per pound depending on the cut. Beef from my co-op is 1.00 per pound. There are many other kinds of meat we use but keep them all at 1.00 or less. 

You would probably need two freezers as you would not want to run down to zero food ever.

You need tot ake into account that pregnant and lactating females can easily eat two to three times their normal portion and puppies also add quite a bit to the food bill. I have collies and a sheltie. My collie was eating almost 5 pounds of meat while nursing and the pups took over eating about that amount once weaned. 

We have contacted hunters and this fall should be able to get free or low cost venison. We also work with a lamb/sheep butcherand get lung and organ super cheap from him.

Raising your own food for that quantity would be difficult. The average chicken would be 3-5 pounds. You would have to do beef, or sheep or goat to be worthwhile at all. I do not like supporting normal farming practices but my dogs come first and I cannot afford to feed them free range, organic everything. They are soo much better off on meat that I compromise and buy chicken and such from regular processors. Free range chicken ranges 3 - 4 dollars a pound. That is impossible for me. I won't even touch how much beef would be. 

Why would you have 10 GSD? I have 3 female collies and my boy. We only breed to him occassionally usually we breed out but I love my males. Herding and working dogs really need to bond to their owner. I would not ever kennle them. They all live in my home. I cannot imagine 10 large dogs in my home all the time. Anyway, JMHO, good luck with your venture. We are you located?


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

when you're out of town and you talk about a timed feeding...what do you mean by that?

will someone be there to supervise?


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Esori said:


> Hello, I am new to this thread but so far I'm enjoying what I've read. I'm very much interested in the idea of raw feeding my (future) dogs but I had some questions as to how to feed _many_ dogs. I've noticed that many of the members here have multiple large dogs that they raw feed so I think I'm in the right place to get my answer. :becky:


Yep....you're in the right place :wink:



> So, in the future I am very much interested in raising East German Shepherds and I'd love to raise them all raw, which is clearly the best, healthiest, if not most convenient thing to do for them. Feeding 1 or 2 GSDs would not be all that difficult or even take up that much time to prepare or space in the fridge. But in order to have a breeding program, seems to me you need more than 1 or 2. So I've been trying to figure out how to feed a potential limit of 10 GSDs. I don't know if I'd actually get to that number but it's best to plan for the most and hope to fall under that, right?


It all depends on how big of a breeding program you run. I don't think you have to have at least 10 GSDs. You can have a small, and successful breeding program with three dogs. Of course you have to keep in mind all the potential puppies you'd also have eating raw while they are with you temporarily. Plus any puppies that needed to come back to you if the original owners couldn't care for them any longer. I've known breeders to take puppies or even fully adult dogs back and then have them in their possession for month to years or even indefinitely. I think responsible breeders will take back (or aid in rehoming a dog) any dog they have produced for any reason at any time. 



> So the way I figure it, an 80lb GSD would need in the neighborhood of 2lbs of meat a day, or 60lbs a month. Thus, 10 GSDs would need 600lbs a month or 7200lbs a year. I'll focus on 600lbs a month. Where would you get so much meat, and how much would you expect to pay per pound? What's more, where would you even store it? I saw a post (forgot which one) that said that the largest freezer size would hold only aobut 500lbs. Although I guess I could combine a large storage freezer with an actual fridge/freezer combo . . . that might work. But how do you come about so much food? And what if you don't live anywhere near a butcher? (I don't know if I will or wont 'cause I won't be here when I get my pups)


We feed 6 dogs between 65-120 pounds. All together their weight adds up to ~540 pounds of dog to feed every day. We feed ~10-15 pounds of meat per day which adds up to ~300-450 pounds of meat per month that we go through. We typically order meat by bulk cases every 2-3 months from a wholesale meat distributor. Our average cost for meats is ~$.65-.75 per pound. We have recently gotten into buying livestock to butcher ourselves that averages out to be ~$.80 per pound for organic, grass fed red meats. 

We have 3 large freezers that all could hold ~350-500 pounds of meat each. We have two upright freezers, one of which is a long term storage in the garage and the other is our daily freezer that is in our kitchen. We have 1 chest freezer that is also long term storage out in the garage. I recommend chest freezers for long term storage because they typically can hold more meat than uprights. We would actually like to get a 4th freezer once we move up to Idaho in the next couple of months. 



> Also, I saw that most people feed their dogs on chicken since it is the most inexpensive of the meats at usually less than $1 a lb, but these by and large tend to be factory chickens who live in horrible, inhumane conditions. An enterprise I intend to stop supporting once I am in a better situation (I barely support it now as it is). Does anyone here source their meat mostly or exclusively from humanely treated (or even organically humanely treated) animals? If so, how much does that usually cost compared to the factory farmed animals?


I would say that most of the meat we buy from the wholesale distributor comes from a factory farm. While this is the least ideal situation for getting meat, its still worlds better than any kibble. I strive to get as much organic meat for the dogs, but I can't afford to get meat that costs more than $1 per pound. Typically organic meats are 2X or more expensive than non organic meats. I don't feel ashamed or embarrassed to admit that I feed what some would consider the "Kibbles N' Bits" of raw because its the best that I can do under my current circumstances. 



> One more thing I was wondering . . . has anyone considered the idea of raising your own dogs' food? I started toying with it as an idea to try to save cost on buying food someone else has raised and prepared. It let me down a very interesting path of possibilities. Apparently pigs breed like very big rabbits :smile:


Once we move up to our land in Idaho, we are planning to raise rabbits for meat as well as chickens for eggs. Big livestock takes more space than we have (6 acres) and to be completely honest I have to interest in getting that large scale of a farm to be able to self sustain our dogs as well as ourselves. 



> Oh, and I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions for what I could do when I went out of town? I'll be showing and competing with my dogs quite a bit and was wondering if anyone had any tips for leaving dogs frequently who were being raw feed. An idea I was thinking about before deciding on raw was to get a timed feeding for each of my dogs and filling it with 3 days worth of food - the typical weekend I will be traveling. Clearly you can't do this with raw. (in this scenario the dogs are separated in large individual pens with very large runs so they aren't eating each other's food)


We get a house sitter that stays in our home that is comfortable feeding our dogs their normal diet. I wont compromise their well being while I'm unable to care for them. Its not hard to find people who are interested in house sitting and comfortable feeding raw. 

We have been on 10 day road trips with our dogs that are all raw fed. We packed two large coolers with FROZEN meat, which lasted 1/2 way through our trip. We planned to make one meat stop along the way (planning ahead and scoping out stores in the area is helpful) to restock. A three day road trip with raw fed dogs is a piece of cake. If you're wanting to feed each dog separately, just do hand feedings individually. We do group feedings and for the most part our dogs are respectful of each other and don't steal food. Just managing space and time is all it takes. 



> think that's it. If there's anything else you think I should know about raw feeding a potentially large number of working dogs, feel free to share. Otherwise, I look forward to all the responses and it's very nice to meet all of you :smile:


Its nice to have you here! Feeding raw to a large number of dogs isn't as hard as it seems. Once you get the hang of feeding raw, its easy!

Read through this if you haven't already:

Bulk order meat prep! | Prey Model Raw


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## Esori (May 7, 2011)

Liz said:


> Why would you have 10 GSD? I have 3 female collies and my boy. We only breed to him occassionally usually we breed out but I love my males. Herding and working dogs really need to bond to their owner. I would not ever kennle them. They all live in my home. I cannot imagine 10 large dogs in my home all the time. Anyway, JMHO, good luck with your venture. We are you located?


lol, I don't really think I'll get to 10, or I hope I wont need to. I came up with that number based on 2-3 males, 3 or so females, and puppies that I'd be growing out. I'd ideally like to stay around 5 or so, but this was really more of a "plan for the worst" scenario. I wouldn't want to kennel my dogs either. Granted there would probably be kennels/pens in the yard for when I need them out for some reason, but I would want my shepherds in the house with me. 

I'm currently in North florida, but who knows where I'll end up once my husband graduates. You gotta follow the money you know =)


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## Esori (May 7, 2011)

DaneMama said:


> Yep....you're in the right place :wink:
> 
> 
> 
> It all depends on how big of a breeding program you run. I don't think you have to have at least 10 GSDs. You can have a small, and successful breeding program with three dogs. Of course you have to keep in mind all the potential puppies you'd also have eating raw while they are with you temporarily. Plus any puppies that needed to come back to you if the original owners couldn't care for them any longer. I've known breeders to take puppies or even fully adult dogs back and then have them in their possession for month to years or even indefinitely. I think responsible breeders will take back (or aid in rehoming a dog) any dog they have produced for any reason at any time.


I completely agree. That's part of the reason for the 10 dog buffer. 




> I would say that most of the meat we buy from the wholesale distributor comes from a factory farm. While this is the least ideal situation for getting meat, its still worlds better than any kibble. I strive to get as much organic meat for the dogs, but I can't afford to get meat that costs more than $1 per pound. Typically organic meats are 2X or more expensive than non organic meats. I don't feel ashamed or embarrassed to admit that I feed what some would consider the "Kibbles N' Bits" of raw because its the best that I can do under my current circumstances.
> 
> Once we move up to our land in Idaho, we are planning to raise rabbits for meat as well as chickens for eggs. Big livestock takes more space than we have (6 acres) and to be completely honest I have no interest in getting that large scale of a farm to be able to self sustain our dogs as well as ourselves.


I have considered and very much understand that. If the money's not there it just isn't there. Maybe when more people start raising animals humanely, the cost of humanely raised meats will come done. I know there is a move in that direction (more humane farmers that is). If I am lucky enough to be in a position where raising some of my own meat is feasable, I'll go ahead and give it a try. Particularly with pigs. You could raise about 2,000lbs a year from one Sow and, er 3 acres I think. I think that'd be worth it =)




> We get a house sitter that stays in our home that is comfortable feeding our dogs their normal diet. I wont compromise their well being while I'm unable to care for them. Its not hard to find people who are interested in house sitting and comfortable feeding raw.


Does the house sitter charge by the dog? About how much does a house sitter cost? I know I'd have to have someone there while I'm gone, perferably all day but at least once or twice a day . . .




> Read through this if you haven't already:
> 
> Bulk order meat prep! | Prey Model Raw


Oh it's YOU! That's the post that I think led me here! =D


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## hcdoxies (Sep 22, 2010)

Firstly, I think it's great that you're "planning for the worst". It shows you're thinking ahead -- yay!

I don't have a whole lot to say that others haven't already said, but I want to just encourage you  I feed 11 miniature dachshunds right now without any issues. Granted, they are 1/8 of the size of German Shepherds, but once you get the hang of it it's very easy.


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## BrownieM (Aug 30, 2010)

hcdoxies said:


> Firstly, I think it's great that you're "planning for the worst". It shows you're thinking ahead -- yay!
> 
> I don't have a whole lot to say that others haven't already said, but I want to just encourage you  I feed 11 miniature dachshunds right now without any issues. Granted, they are 1/8 of the size of German Shepherds, but once you get the hang of it it's very easy.


And they live in a separate house, the "dog palace", AKA in a glorified kennel environment. The Palace

ETA: I misread the purpose of the thread. Oops! My comment is somewhat out of place (although true). That's what I get for posting without reading the entire thread. Anyway, I guess I can tie this in by saying it's probably easier to feed them raw as there is a dedicated area??:hungry:


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## CavePaws (Jan 25, 2011)

To be honest, the way you described your future breeding practice, it just came off as really impersonal towards the dogs...I don't know, it just came off to me as, "I need 10 GSDs, because I am going to be a high volume breeder." That's just the way it came off, I'm not trying to be rude. I suppose if that is supposed to include puppies, then you'll be limiting yourself to around five dogs...Just remember what Danemama said, any good breeder will take their puppies or even adults back. You brought it into this world, it's your responsibility to make sure it doesn't end up adding to the numbers in the shelters and on the streets IMO. 

But ya, everyone has made great suggestions...

My family has 7 dogs, five who live with me and two who live with my dad on our lake property. I consider the two with my dad mine still because technically my dad stole my two shepherd mixes and took them out there with him. ]:< So I still pay for their food and go out to visit them every day or every other day. I have considered raising food for my bunch...Goats in particular because we already have the set up for them. But I couldn't kill them, not once they've been raised by me. One day maybe I'll set up a rabbit operation or something for whole prey, not sure. The five who live with me eat some meals separately and some meals I turn in to training time and they all eat in a group as I'm training. You just need to make sure you separate the clashing personalities if there are any in the bunch.

Good luck, I hope you're going into the breeding practice for all the right reasons - you are truly in love with the breed and want to improve the lines. Not to mention it is going to be expensiveeee...I think you've really got to be absolutely in love with the breed to be able to spend that much money on making puppies. o_o


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## Jgk2383 (Oct 27, 2010)

I have 6 German Shepherds living with me right now, in my home. Granted my house is a 7 bedroom 4500 sqft home but all 6 live here inside, they have access to the property as they please through a dog door and free range of the house except for feeding and sleeping when they are crated. At night I rotate who is out of the crate and can have free range of the house. My dogs are more than pets they are working dogs so I guess its different and I do not breed, ever. My point is if she wants 10 god bless her, if she can care for, feed and provide enough attention to all 10 then good for her.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Esori said:


> Does the house sitter charge by the dog? About how much does a house sitter cost? I know I'd have to have someone there while I'm gone, perferably all day but at least once or twice a day . . .


We always enlist the help from friends, which has been a blessing. The last trip we took was a 11 day adventure to the southern Bahamas. A friend lived at our house for that time and we paid her $35 per day. She was happy to do it and would do it again if needed. In the past, I've paid as much as $50 per day. Dog sitting is just one of the things I budget for when I go on vacations. I will only get "live in" dog sitters while I'm away.



> Oh it's YOU! That's the post that I think led me here! =D


Yep! The preymodelraw website is ours. We created it to help people switch to raw the RIGHT way!!! Glad you found our site which led you here! WOOT :wink: :biggrin: :thumb:


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## Esori (May 7, 2011)

CavePaws said:


> To be honest, the way you described your future breeding practice, it just came off as really impersonal towards the dogs...I don't know, it just came off to me as, "I need 10 GSDs, because I am going to be a high volume breeder." That's just the way it came off, I'm not trying to be rude. I suppose if that is supposed to include puppies, then you'll be limiting yourself to around five dogs...Just remember what Danemama said, any good breeder will take their puppies or even adults back. You brought it into this world, it's your responsibility to make sure it doesn't end up adding to the numbers in the shelters and on the streets IMO.
> 
> But ya, everyone has made great suggestions...
> 
> ...


lol, I know I didn't go into detail with my plans, but that's mainly because my question had to do with feeding them, so I can understand the confusion/worry. I hope I don't need to get to that many dogs, and by no means would I be breeding everyone every year. That number, as I posted somewhere above, is to support 1 or 2 main males, 3 or so females and then growing out progeny and any possible dogs I may need to take back from owners. I hope than 10 is a worst case scenario number =/

I think I'm going into it for the right reasons. It certainly isn't for the money, as I know it will take a lot of that. And I also know it will take a lot of time as I want to title most of my dogs in many things, which will take both a lot of time and money when it comes to traveling and show fees. It's just that there is a type of Shepherd that I would like to see, that honestly I believe to be correct that I have an extremely hard time finding anywhere. Nearly all breeders I find go to the extreme of something. Either too much angulation in the show ring, too much emphasis on quiet pet personality, too much emphasis on high drives, etc. In my mind the ideal German Shepherd isn't extreme in anything, but well qualified in just about everything. As the saying goes, "The germans shepherd is number 1 in nothing, but number 2 in everything."


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