# Mouthy! And other behavioral problems.



## SilverBeat (Jan 16, 2011)

This is not about Wallaby, he's been doing great with his training and I couldn't be more proud of him.
This is about other dogs in my life.

Mostly dogs at the rescue. I have run into a few problems that I've noticed haven't been addressed by anyone in any sort of real way.

*Mouthiness*
A couple of the dogs there get mouthy, meaning not necessarily that they nip, but they play with their mouth with people, like how puppies play. For one dog in particular this has escalated so that once his teeth make contact with your skin he gets overexcited and mouths and mouths and bounces around even if you've turned and are ignoring him, or are walking him back to his crate. He has even started making low play growl/yips, which could be misinterpreted for aggression.
What can be done to extinguish this, in the instance that being ignored does nothing to stop it? 

*Lack of Confidence*
How do you build confidence in a dog who shies away when you try to pet him, and won't take treats either from your hand or the ground?
I am going to try bringing hot dogs or cheese or something a little tastier, but I have my doubts. These dogs in particular do not play much either.

*Talkative*
Dogs in shelters bark. I've made my peace with that. But some people have not. What's a better way to get talkative dogs to quiet down rather than using a spray bottle? I never used it, I would just pick it up and they'd all get the message. All that barking can get really annoying.

ETA:
*Boredom*
Most of the "problem" behaviors that dogs develop crop up as a result of boredom. To try and curb this I play games with the dogs and puppies there and do light training with a few of them who've been there a bit longer than the others. Just basic stuff like sit, down, off, etc. 
I am going to start trolling garage sales for muffin tins so they can play the muffin tin game, and I just bought 4 kong extremes for them.. what are some other toys/games they could play with?


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## CavePaws (Jan 25, 2011)

SilverBeat said:


> *Mouthiness*
> A couple of the dogs there get mouthy, meaning not necessarily that they nip, but they play with their mouth with people, like how puppies play. For one dog in particular this has escalated so that once his teeth make contact with your skin he gets overexcited and mouths and mouths and bounces around even if you've turned and are ignoring him, or are walking him back to his crate. He has even started making low play growl/yips, which could be misinterpreted for aggression.
> What can be done to extinguish this, in the instance that being ignored does nothing to stop it?


My recommendations would be. 
1. Toys: If the dog is interested in toys, get them using a toy to occupy their mouth. I've found that when dogs are in such an excited state they might rather play with you or a toy instead of take treats. Getting them on a tug toy would be very awesome. You could teach them to drop it, leave it, and take it; teaching them to control their mouth. This would be very beneficial in that the "leave it" command could be put into use often with lots of things.
2. Impulse control, even if you don't get them a toy teach them leave it and take it.
3. Teach a settle command in calm environments. Get all the behaviors down in one room and SLOWLY up the distraction levels. When I mean slowly I mean if you have to have a person walk across their path 40 feet away only once before they go into an aroused state then do it. Inch by inch you'll get there with them. It may take tons of patience, treats, verbal praise, physical praise, and toy play to get there, but they will.
4. Require he be very calm and sit before going in and out of his crate, give lots of praise for this.
5. If standing still and ignoring this dog is not working, what I would do is start walking around aimlessly with the leash and wait until he starts notice, "hey, she is controlling where I'm going...maybe it would be beneficial of me to actually pay some attention to her" the second I get anything like this I would try to reward with anything that seems to actually give the dog some joy.
6. practice tethering and posting. tethering the dog to something heavy and practicing leave it and take it, as well as impulse control on greetings of new people and dogs by asking for a sit as soon as walking up.



> *Lack of Confidence*
> How do you build confidence in a dog who shies away when you try to pet him, and won't take treats either from your hand or the ground?
> I am going to try bringing hot dogs or cheese or something a little tastier, but I have my doubts. These dogs in particular do not play much either.


Can you perhaps dry out some cheap fish or cook up some liver and sort of mix that in their kibble or other treats that don't seem to be working and let it sit for a day or so to soak up the smell? If this doesn't work I would look into trying to get this dog something REALLY high value for the first few times in order to get it to eat. Dogs like this might not eat in your presence for a really long time, you may actually have to spend a bit of time with them letting them get used to you and just showing them you aren't a threat before they will take treats.

Any time I could treat this dog I would try to so I could get the connection going between us. If the dog took a step towards me as small as it might be I would click and treat. For these dogs, if they can stand a clicker, I also like using that. Sometimes very nervous dogs are also very sensitive to human voices and tone. I like the clicker because it is something very precise. I am in no way saying you cannot praise verbally in a calm soothing tone of course.



> *Talkative*
> Dogs in shelters bark. I've made my peace with that. But some people have not. What's a better way to get talkative dogs to quiet down rather than using a spray bottle? I never used it, I would just pick it up and they'd all get the message. All that barking can get really annoying.


Can you guys look into kongs? I know money can be tight with rescues but sometimes I've found these are great ways to keep some dogs really busy. I think this would be an awesome way to keep them occupied, maybe craigslist or ebay have some in bulk. I'm sure there is like a generic version of Kong too! What was suggested by my boss for my kennel work was to ask the dogs to be quiet, and the first one to be quiet gets the treat. This is something I would work on individually with each dog for sure. You'd be surprised how quick they catch on that they aren't getting that awesome treat.


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## SilverBeat (Jan 16, 2011)

> My recommendations would be.
> 1. Toys: If the dog is interested in toys, get them using a toy to occupy their mouth. I've found that when dogs are in such an excited state they might rather play with you or a toy instead of take treats. Getting them on a tug toy would be very awesome. You could teach them to drop it, leave it, and take it; teaching them to control their mouth. This would be very beneficial in that the "leave it" command could be put into use often with lots of things.
> 2. Impulse control, even if you don't get them a toy teach them leave it and take it.
> 3. Teach a settle command in calm environments. Get all the behaviors down in one room and SLOWLY up the distraction levels. When I mean slowly I mean if you have to have a person walk across their path 40 feet away only once before they go into an aroused state then do it. Inch by inch you'll get there with them. It may take tons of patience, treats, verbal praise, physical praise, and toy play to get there, but they will.
> ...


Awesome ideas, thank you! I am definitely going to get them on tug toys! As far as teaching impulse control, I play "it's YER choice" with them a lot, but the super-mouthy one doesn't seem to "get it," and I usually end up with sores on my hand and a dog with no treat. Maybe if I tried putting it under my shoe? Or wearing gardening gloves?



> Can you perhaps dry out some cheap fish or cook up some liver and sort of mix that in their kibble or other treats that don't seem to be working and let it sit for a day or so to soak up the smell? If this doesn't work I would look into trying to get this dog something REALLY high value for the first few times in order to get it to eat. Dogs like this might not eat in your presence for a really long time, you may actually have to spend a bit of time with them letting them get used to you and just showing them you aren't a threat before they will take treats.
> 
> Any time I could treat this dog I would try to so I could get the connection going between us. If the dog took a step towards me as small as it might be I would click and treat. For these dogs, if they can stand a clicker, I also like using that. Sometimes very nervous dogs are also very sensitive to human voices and tone. I like the clicker because it is something very precise. I am in no way saying you cannot praise verbally in a calm soothing tone of course.


I have tried clicking with him and he is afraid, even of the pen. So I am trying to use a verbal "yes" instead. I'm hoping he'll be more into cheese or hot dogs or something of the sort.
I have noticed he's more confident on walks. His tail is usually up when he's walking, as opposed to down or tucked otherwise. I was able to pet him lightly when we were sitting in the grass after a long walk, and I did talk to him in a soothing tone then. His tail was down but not tucked. And he wouldn't sit or lay down, he was always standing.



> Can you guys look into kongs? I know money can be tight with rescues but sometimes I've found these are great ways to keep some dogs really busy. I think this would be an awesome way to keep them occupied, maybe craigslist or ebay have some in bulk. I'm sure there is like a generic version of Kong too! *What was suggested by my boss for my kennel work was to ask the dogs to be quiet, and the first one to be quiet gets the treat. This is something I would work on individually with each dog for sure. You'd be surprised how quick they catch on that they aren't getting that awesome treat.*


That is a really great idea. I am certainly going to work on that, I've noticed how quickly dogs learn from watching other dogs.

In my ETA I mentioned I bought 4 large kong extremes today [only like $7 each on amazon with free shipping]. I would like to do more but for now that's worlds better than what we have. I saw in another thread you can give frozen carrots, which if they like it would be a cheap easy way for them to cool down in the summer and use their mouths for more useful things. I'll check out ebay too, maybe there's something there.
I am not sure if the other volunteers there realize the importance of mental stimulation. I'm sure some of them do, but the attitude there seems to be acknowledging a problem and not really doing much more about it than that.


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## CavePaws (Jan 25, 2011)

I would definitely try some gloves if he can be that persistent! I know I've felt the need to before. Some dogs are so relentless about mouthing and pawing with a leave it game. D: So I definitely know what you mean, it would for sure be good to use your shoe or a glove.



> I have noticed he's more confident on walks. His tail is usually up when he's walking, as opposed to down or tucked otherwise. I was able to pet him lightly when we were sitting in the grass after a long walk, and I did talk to him in a soothing tone then. His tail was down but not tucked. And he wouldn't sit or lay down, he was always standing.


Sounds to me you're on the right track if his tail isn't tucked on the walks. If you keep this up he is bound to get better, some dogs take a while. If he isn't aggressive I would work on getting him around as many people as possible and get as many training hands on him as possible. He needs to understand that no one is going to kill him. In those very special moments when he does let you pet him, give him the highest value treats you can find that he likes.

Once he is taking treats very close to you I would start in cooperating your hand into the picture. I would just stick my hand out, or if this is too much, on the floor and start tossing treats in the vicinity. Since dogs like this often take a lot of time to build a nice relationship with I think it's best to let them come to you. If he will start coming up and under your hand voluntarily to get treats then you should move on to the petting. I really think slow and steady steps with these dogs create the best longest lasting results. 

You really are an awesome person for caring about the dogs at the rescue so much! I think it's really awesome you're putting this kind of time and effort into it. I'm sure they will really appreciate the kongs. Frozen carrots might work! I've never tried but would imagine they're good chews.


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## SilverBeat (Jan 16, 2011)

I got all the materials to make two spring poles today for $21. I think that will help a lot with the boredom issue... We have lots of dogs who love to play tug. 

Jersey is the name of the dog in question. I am going to try your suggestions, Kelly, and hope that I can find something he likes. Maybe baby food or honey or something would get him going.


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## CavePaws (Jan 25, 2011)

Well I'd really love to hear about his progress. Thats so awesome about the spring poles! You're such a good momma to all those doggies. I'm working with a very shy dog right now named Bella, she actually will have nothing to do with even looking at me. It's really sad, my boss thinks she's just a very soft dog, personally I think punishment methods have been overused on this poor pup. Who knows, we shall see how she progresses.


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## Tobi (Mar 18, 2011)

SilverBeat said:


> I got all the materials to make two spring poles today for $21. I think that will help a lot with the boredom issue... We have lots of dogs who love to play tug.
> 
> Jersey is the name of the dog in question. I am going to try your suggestions, Kelly, and hope that I can find something he likes. Maybe baby food or honey or something would get him going.


Thats awesome!!! hope it works for you! you're fantastic for doing that for them! I've tried getting into the shelters around here but they said they have plenty of people


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## monkeys23 (Dec 8, 2010)

*Mouthiness*
Best thing I found when I was volunteering (I have no time right now and gas $ is an issue), was to remove all attention. Don't even look at them. Same works for jumping.
Yiping like an ouchy pup works really well too, but might not phase pent up shelter dogs.

*Lack of Confidence*
Ignore all skittish behavior. Teeny tiny baby steps with treats. Put one next to them and gradually move the treats closer until they are on your person. No excessive praise to start, keep it calm and nonthreatening. No threatening eye contact or overarching body language. Don't chase the dog. Even now with Scout I still have to be very very aware to use the right kind of body language or she shrinks away... ignore her and she runs up to root her nose under my hand for pets... good rough pets no less!

*Talkative*
Ignore them and no eye contact. Any attention tends to encourage barking I've found.

*Boredom*
When I walked dogs in the dog yard, I'd jog with them instead of just walking. Then we'd go in the smaller pens and I'd do some no pressure work on sit and fetch and stuff. Just keep it really light and fun because they are pretty pent up there. Like I'd ask sit and if they did it, I'd immediately throw a stick as reward... then work up to waiting for the reward if the dog was less jacked up, for example. A lot of times I'd work in small commands into our jogging around... a lot of those dogs are really really smart and pick up things very quickly with minimal prompting.


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## monkeys23 (Dec 8, 2010)

So cool about the spring poles!!!!


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## SilverBeat (Jan 16, 2011)

Well I haven't been at the rescue too much lately, but I am going tomorrow for most of the day. I'm going to work with Jersey the shy/softie dog [by the way he will not even take treats in his crate most of the time] and Cookie who has been at the rescue for a very long time and has literally gone insane from boredom. I always make sure to pack a Kong for him, he loves them so much.

I still haven't learned Jersey's "currency" yet, but I have packed veggies, bread, hot dogs, cheese curds, dry kibble, zuke's salmon and chicken flavored treats and I am going to dehydrate some liver tonight.

The spring poles have been up for a while but I guess they're not interesting enough. Cookie loves playing with them, and that was my main goal. But I'd like the other dogs to enjoy them too.
I think I'll bring some honey or PB to smear on a ring toy. 

Also I cannot run with them due to an old injury, I'm technically not even supposed to walk them. I used to do both though and I know a few of the guys there run with them. I'm going to bring my retractable leash tomorrow just in case... at least it will allow for a bit more exercise to be had.


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## SilverBeat (Jan 16, 2011)

Well, I had a successful day. 

*Jersey* loved the dehydrated beef heart, tongue and pork liver the best. Which is great because he is eating low-quality kibble like Pedigree and having an all-meat treat will really benefit him. Also it is the cheapest because I made it!
I took all the treats I brought [banana, carrot, bread, cheese curds, hot dogs, kibble and the dehydrated foods] and laid them out in front of them in his crate. Then I left the room for a moment and when I came back, everything but the dehydrated foods had been rejected.
Then I sat in front of his crate [at first I was standing but this made him very uneasy] and tossed treats in while talking in a soothing voice, until eventually he was taking them out of my hand. It only took about 10 treats to get to that point. He kept taking them until a man walked into the room. He paid us no mind, didn't even walk near us, but Jersey remained perfectly still until the man was gone. 
A lot of other people [mostly women] and dogs came through our room while we were sitting there. Jersey didn't mind most of the women, except one who I learned afterwards was the wife of a man who had walked right past Jersey's crate while we were having our pow-wow.
After a while I decided to take Jersey for a walk, and see if he'd let me pet him. Not only did he tolerate that [tail down but not tucked under, I was petting his shoulder while sitting] but after a while he started looking at me, and I'd feed him a treat. 

I didn't work a lot today with *Cookie* because I was on a time budget, but I did make him an extra-special kong. I took a bunch of Jersey's treats, mostly the pieces that were fatty, and I froze them inside a kong, then I filled it with chicken stock and put it in the freezer overnight. He loved it! And it kept him busy for quite a while. 

I did a bit of training with *the loud dogs* in the hound room [the loudest room we have] and out of the 12 dogs in there only 2 didn't get it the first time. The one got it the second time, and the other took four times before he got it. When he did, though, I gave him a "jackpot" and made a big fuss. I also did this while carrying a leash and going up to random crates, opening the doors, and closing them. Next time I go I'll take a dog around with me, since their biggest problem is barking when there's another dog out of its crate and they're in theirs.


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