# Food Allergy?



## LukesMom (Aug 8, 2008)

I recently got a second IG, I brought her home with a ziploc bag of the breeders food (Royal Canin) and over a week transitioned her to Orijen puppy formula. Two days after I got her home, I took her to the vet for a check up and she had hook worms and whipworms. She had diarrhea upon arrival home. Treated her with Panacur for 4 days. She continued with very soft poo for another week and a half. So, I put her on boiled chicken, rice and pumpkin. Her poo is solid now. My vet did another fecal today and said he didn't see anything. 
So, I think she is allergic to something in the Orijen. I had this problem with my first IG, he was allergic to something in Innova and it made him have diarrhea, as soon as I switched him to Canidae it cleared up. 
The question is, finally, how do you pinpoint what they are allergic to? I will switch her to another food, but I would like to know what it is that is causing the diarrhea?
I was thinking about Merrick Puppy Plate? 
Does anyone have any wisdom they can share? 

Thanks!
Catherine, Luke and Story


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

LukesMom said:


> > She had diarrhea upon arrival home.
> 
> 
> Do you mean she had diarrhea from the time you brought her into your house from rescue or upon bringing her home from the vet?
> ...


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## rannmiller (Jun 27, 2008)

Yes, as RFD said, cut back the amount of Orijen you're feeding since it's pretty much a hypoallergenic food. I'm guessing that switching from crap (Royal Canin) to amazing (Orijen) probably just irritated her bowels and I'm sure the worms didn't help anything. Orijen is, in fact, the only kibble that managed to firm up the stools of my roommate's puppy, so I'd be surprised it the Orijen was truly the culprit. 

I'd say, keep on with the chicken and whatnot and start putting some of the Orijen in with that (obviously cutting back the amount of chicken mixture you're giving her to substitute for the Orijen content). Then start mixing in less of the chicken and more of the Orijen (but still not a ton, since it is so nutrient-dense). An IG pup will not need a lot of Orijen in order to stay full.


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## LukesMom (Aug 8, 2008)

Thanks for the advice. I didn't think about quantity. I have been giving her a heaping 1/3 cup, which is probably too much. She needs to put on a little weight and was looking VERY skinny. She also was scarfing down the food like she had never eaten. 

Thanks
Catherine


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## techampion (Jul 31, 2008)

*Re: Food Allergy*

"It would be very unusual for a puppy or a dog to be allergic to anything in Orijen as it's mostly meat. Dogs are almost never allergic to meat. It would be like a cow being alergic to grass."

Even though grains are the usual source of food allergy in dogs, dogs can be allergic to meat...chicken and beef being the two main culprits. In my BT chicken triggers excessive skin sensitivity and itching and beef triggers yeast infections.

You can do an elimination diet while feeding kibble. My recommendation is to switch you dog to a high grade kibble with no grains and a source of protein that they haven't been exposed to. I personally use Natural Balance Potato and Duck, but there are others. After a couple of months if the dog is doing better you can add other proteins in to see if there is any response. 

Also be aware that dogs can have environmental allergies. those contact allergies can be just a bad if not worse than the food allergies.


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

techampion said:


> Even though grains are the usual source of food allergy in dogs, dogs can be allergic to meat...chicken and beef being the two main culprits. In my BT chicken triggers excessive skin sensitivity and itching and beef triggers yeast infections.


I have never known a dog who ate chicken only or beef only to show any allergy symptoms.



> You can do an elimination diet while feeding kibble.


There are way too many variables in kibble to do an accurate elimination diet. For example if the kibble you feed has any of the "meat meals" (that would be chicken meal, lamb meal, beef meal), it could have anything in it. For example the only requirement for chicken meal is that chicken is the predomanant ingredient in the meal is chicken. It can have any other animal protein in it so long as the largest animal protein is chicken.

Of course you can keep trying different brands until you find one that works. An elimination diet is so much easier if you feed a raw diet. Thats the only way you can be certain of what your dogs are eating.



> Also be aware that dogs can have environmental allergies. those contact allergies can be just a bad if not worse than the food allergies.


Environmental allergies are more common than food allergies and there are tests for environmental allergies but not food allergies..


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## LoveNewfies (Jun 18, 2008)

Here, we have found that many food allergies are allergies to either grains or vegetables. That being said, we do have a few dogs that do have severe allergies to particular protein sources. One APBT in particular has a severe allergy to chicken.

My Newfoundland does have allergies, most are to non-meat ingredients, however, she is allergic to beef, period. No ifs, ands, or buts about it - no beef for this girl.

There are new allergy tests out that do test for food allergens and so far have proven to be quite accurate. It's quite a tool for those with true allergies.

Quite often, when a person thinks their dog has a food allergy, when changed over to raw the allergen is no longer a problem, but this is not always the case.


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## BoxerMommie (Jun 26, 2008)

I may have the only dog with an intolerance/allergy to meat, but my dog is allergic to beef and has a high intolerance to chicken. We're okay with Lamb, Duck, and Fish as far as now, but beef gives him a nasty rash, sores, and the runs, chicken gives him horrible gas and soft stools. So yes, it is possible for a dog to be allergic to meats...rare maybe but definitely not impossible.


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## BoxerMommie (Jun 26, 2008)

RawFedDogs said:


> I have never known a dog who ate chicken only or beef only to show any allergy symptoms.
> QUOTE]
> 
> Well meet my dog and you will. I gave him beef jerky (homemade nothing else added to it just dehydrated beef) with ZERO other changes in his diet and he broke out in a rash, sores, and had horrible diarrhea. Then about 2 weeks later I gave him a raw beef bone, same thing happened. Nothing else was changed and he's continued on the kibble after the fact without issues so yeah he has an allergy to beef. And chicken gives him horrible gas. Maybe he's weird, but it is not impossible. I have also met others that have dog allergic to beef so where they may be in the minority, again it is not possible.


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## LukesMom (Aug 8, 2008)

I am still giving her boiled chicken, rice and a bit of pumpkin. She is ravenous though, she acts like I am starving her. Luke picks at his food and if I don't pick up his before I let her out of her crate after meals she scarfs it down like she hasn't eaten in a week!! 

Thanks everyone!


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## rannmiller (Jun 27, 2008)

Just a suggestion if you're going to leave her on the homemade food much longer, it doesn't sound like she's getting any calcium to balance her phosphorus (meat) intake, so you should probably get her some calcium supplements and maybe a good doggie multi-vitamin just to make sure she's getting everything she needs. 

Good luck!


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

LoveNewfies said:


> There are new allergy tests out that do test for food allergens and so far have proven to be quite accurate. It's quite a tool for those with true allergies.


Is there somewhere I can look for information on these new tests?


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

BoxerMommie said:


> I gave him beef jerky (homemade nothing else added to it just dehydrated beef) with ZERO other changes in his diet and he broke out in a rash, sores, and had horrible diarrhea.


I would guess that when you give any kibble fed dog a good amount of beef for the first time, he would react quite similarly. Not only is beef one of the more rich of meats, when you dehydrate it, you make the nutrient dense meat even more dense by a factor of about 300%.

Thats the reason it is never suggested to begin a raw diet with beef. Beef should be introduced slowly beginning 4 or 5 weeks into the diet. I have known new raw feeders who tried to begin the diet with beef have similar problems as you, only to have them go away when they properly introduced their dog to raw with a more sensible method. When they did eventually introduce beef slowly, all went ok. No more problems with beef.



> And chicken gives him horrible gas.


"Horrible gas" is not a symptom of an allergy. It's a digestive problem that is usually easily corrected.


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## BoxerMommie (Jun 26, 2008)

RawFedDogs said:


> I would guess that when you give any kibble fed dog a good amount of beef for the first time, he would react quite similarly. Not only is beef one of the more rich of meats, when you dehydrate it, you make the nutrient dense meat even more dense by a factor of about 300%.
> 
> Thats the reason it is never suggested to begin a raw diet with beef. Beef should be introduced slowly beginning 4 or 5 weeks into the diet. I have known new raw feeders who tried to begin the diet with beef have similar problems as you, only to have them go away when they properly introduced their dog to raw with a more sensible method. When they did eventually introduce beef slowly, all went ok. No more problems with beef.
> 
> ...



I didn't say it was an allergy I said it was an INTOLERANCE. It is not easily corrected, he eats anything with chicken whether it be fresh chicken, chicken jerky, food with chicken, etc he has horrible gas yet he doesn't get gas with any other food, so yes it is considered an intolerance. Maybe you'd like to schedule and appointment with a vet who specializes in allergies and intolerances and speak with them to become more knowledgable on the subject since it doesn't seem like you have much experience in the area.

Okay seriously I gave 1 SMALL piece of beef jerky, It wasn't huge, maybe 2 inches long by 1 inch wide at the biggest. Yes it was more "condensed" but it was small. It also does not explain the reaction to the raw bone i gave him which had MAYBE 1/4 of a teaspoon of meat left on it maximum. Broke out then too. I later had an allergy test done on him through the specialist and yes he is allergic to beef and is intolerant to chicken, it wasn't just my imagination they now have tests that can confirm it and they're pretty accurate.


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## LukesMom (Aug 8, 2008)

The last two meals I started adding back in the Orijen Puppy and as of this morning, the diarrhea is back!!! Argh! 
So, I need to choose the next kibble. I think my feed store has Chicken Soup for the Puppy, Wellness Puppy, Merrick Puppy Plate and California Natural Puppy. Anyone have experience with these?

Thanks


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## BoxerMommie (Jun 26, 2008)

Just be careful with the CA Natural food it is VERY low in fiber so if your dog needs a normal to higher fiber diet CA Natural can have some unwanted side effects (awful diarrhea). Great food and some dogs do just fine on it, some (like mine) don't.


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## techampion (Jul 31, 2008)

RawFedDogs said:


> I have never known a dog who ate chicken only or beef only to show any allergy symptoms.
> 
> There are way too many variables in kibble to do an accurate elimination diet. For example if the kibble you feed has any of the "meat meals" (that would be chicken meal, lamb meal, beef meal), it could have anything in it. For example the only requirement for chicken meal is that chicken is the predomanant ingredient in the meal is chicken. It can have any other animal protein in it so long as the largest animal protein is chicken..


I have to wonder how many dogs with allergies you have actually been exposed to. As with humans, dogs can be allergic to anything...and also develop an allergy after years of being fine with something. 

I'm not really certain if you are in this forum to discuss canned/kibbles or promote raw feeding. Raw feeding may work for you, but you don't seem to understand that some people are not interested in feeding raw. It is my understanding that this forum isn't about feeding raw. If I want to read the raw feeding pitch I'll go over to that forum, but I don't so I won't. 

There are allergy tests that can be check for food and environmental allergies, though the food allergy tests aren't as consistent. There are foods such as several Natural Balance formulas that are specifically for dogs with allergies and don't contain grains and only contain one source of a specific protein. My Alice had great success with NB Potato and Duck and has started growing her fur back in thicker, the yeast infections are under control (and only came back when I tried to introduce beef into her diet), she is completely off Benedryl, and she has much more energy than before.


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## rannmiller (Jun 27, 2008)

Sorry the Orijen didn't work out, that's too bad. Of the choices you have, I like the Wellness brand the best. I've never had experience with the puppy food, but I have done the Wellness Core and Wellness small breed formula and my dogs did really well on it.


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

techampion said:


> I have to wonder how many dogs with allergies you have actually been exposed to. As with humans, dogs can be allergic to anything...and also develop an allergy after years of being fine with something.


I have personally owned 2 dogs with allergies both of whom were cured by switching to a prey model raw diet. I have helped many others, I'm not sure of the number but probably over 50 who have dogs with allergy problems. So I am well aquainted with dogs with allergy problems. 



> I'm not really certain if you are in this forum to discuss canned/kibbles or promote raw feeding.


I am on this particular thread to teach how to handle allergies in dogs, particularly food allergies. I probably do "promote" raw feeding but only because I know what is in kibble.



> Raw feeding may work for you, but you don't seem to understand that some people are not interested in feeding raw.


For the health of their dog, they should be.



> It is my understanding that this forum isn't about feeding raw. If I want to read the raw feeding pitch I'll go over to that forum, but I don't so I won't.


If you are serious about actually eliminating food allergy symptoms, you will learn about it.



> There are allergy tests that can be check for food and environmental allergies, though the food allergy tests aren't as consistent.


I am well aware of that and there have been some posts made that there are now reliable allergy tests to determine which food a dog is allergic to but when I ask for information on these tests, I get nothing.



> There are foods such as several Natural Balance formulas that are specifically for dogs with allergies and don't contain grains and only contain one source of a specific protein.


Well, just to prove my point about doing an elimination diet with kibble, The Duck formula you are feeding has duck meal in it. By being duck meal, it can also have beef, chicken, turkey, pork, or any other animal protein in it. And it will be different each batch that is made. So how are you going to do an elimination diet with that? It may be that the bags you have bought so far doesn't have any beef in the duck meal, but the next bag may. Or they all may and your dog may not be allergic to beef like you think he is.



> My Alice had great success with NB Potato and Duck and has started growing her fur back in thicker, the yeast infections are under control (and only came back when I tried to introduce beef into her diet), she is completely off Benedryl, and she has much more energy than before.


Cool, good luck on her potato diet. You know, it is mostly potato. A human wouldn't be healthy eating mostly potatoes and and dog even more so.


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## BabyHusky (Jul 21, 2008)

First off, good luck in finding the right food for your pup.

RFD, everyone appreciates your passion for dogs but this is the DRY FOOD forum. Please stop preaching to everyone about how raw is the only way. Whether it is the best for the dog or not, it is up to the owner to read about it and make the decision. We have a Raw Forum section just to eliminate the two different food feeders from having heated discussions like there were in the past. It has been a while since the heated discussions arose so I think it would be best to stop where its at. Dry food feeders do not want to be preached at. Please do your raw prey model preaching in the raw forum. (We all know that you say raw fixes everything, that its the best, that YOU do KNOW that raw is best, etc etc etc. We know you have experiences with almost everything anyone can throw at you, etc. We all understand that so you do not need to give us your resume). 

I do not know much about the newer members, but I know that Boxermommie really cares and loves her pups. They're part of her family, so I fully 100% trust and believe her when she says her pups were having trouble with this or that. The lady knows her information.


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

BabyHusky said:


> Please stop preaching to everyone about how raw is the only way. Whether it is the best for the dog or not, it is up to the owner to read about it and make the decision.


I'm not preaching, I'm informing. Big difference.



> We have a Raw Forum section just to eliminate the two different food feeders from having heated discussions like there were in the past.


In this particular thread, I am informing people that dogs aren't allergic to meat. A couple of people have said that there are reliable tests to not only tell that a dog has a food allergy but exactly that the food is that the dog is allergic to. Twice I asked for more information and haven't received it yet. 

I don't get heated. Some others may. I am perfectly capable of deciding which forums I will post in and which I won't but I thank you for your attempt to help.



> It has been a while since the heated discussions arose so I think it would be best to stop where its at. Dry food feeders do not want to be preached at.


Obviously there are things they don't know and I am informing them. I appreciate your concern but again, I don't need help deciding which forums to post in and which not to.



> Please do your raw prey model preaching in the raw forum. (We all know that you say raw fixes everything, that its the best, that YOU do KNOW that raw is best, etc etc etc.


It doesn't fix everything, but it sure fixes a lot. When it will fix something I will not hesitate to give that information no matter where the question is asked.



> We know you have experiences with almost everything anyone can throw at you, etc. We all understand that so you do not need to give us your resume).


When someone questions my knowledge, I will tell them the background I have in that particular area. And there are plenty of areas that I don't have a lot of experience and I don't post in threads pertaining to those subjects.


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## BoxerMommie (Jun 26, 2008)

BabyHusky said:


> First off, good luck in finding the right food for your pup.
> 
> RFD, everyone appreciates your passion for dogs but this is the DRY FOOD forum. Please stop preaching to everyone about how raw is the only way. Whether it is the best for the dog or not, it is up to the owner to read about it and make the decision. We have a Raw Forum section just to eliminate the two different food feeders from having heated discussions like there were in the past. It has been a while since the heated discussions arose so I think it would be best to stop where its at. Dry food feeders do not want to be preached at. Please do your raw prey model preaching in the raw forum. (We all know that you say raw fixes everything, that its the best, that YOU do KNOW that raw is best, etc etc etc. We know you have experiences with almost everything anyone can throw at you, etc. We all understand that so you do not need to give us your resume).
> 
> I do not know much about the newer members, but I know that Boxermommie really cares and loves her pups. They're part of her family, so I fully 100% trust and believe her when she says her pups were having trouble with this or that. The lady knows her information.



Thank you and yes I do and they are. I searched high and low for MONTHS and went through hundreds of dollars of different foods (thank goodness they are refundable brands!) before I found one that works for my allergy dog. And yes as long as he stays away from his allergy triggers he is 100% fine. I've done the food allergy test (sorry RFD I do not know the brand of it my receipt simply states "allergy test" and a price, I didn't care about the name of the test as long as it worked) and it identified all but 1 of the allergies I suspected and the dairy may be more of a lactose intolerant than an actual allergy (it gives him the runs). My dog is white it is very easy to see when he gets a RED rash, splotches, sores, chewing on his paws, etc. As long as he stays away from dairy, beef, chicken, and gluten he does just fine, no more rash, no more diarrhea (which we went through for MONTHS), no more sores, no more problems. I will not do raw, and I do not think "one size fits all" when it comes to food for dogs, or for people and for more than one reason. I think the key in helping people is to work within their budget as well as their availability, their time constraints, and what they are comfortable doing.

RFD: If you are so curious about these allergy tests, why don't you call your local vet and ASK them. I think most normal people are more concerned with fixing their pet and not inquiring the name of the test how it works, etc. I personally don't care, what I do know is it worked and I had not told my vet my suspicions until AFTER the test came back so there's no way it could have been rigged. Call your vet and ask or do a search on the internet I'm sure you can find info on your own if you really want to.


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## BabyHusky (Jul 21, 2008)

Good for you Boxermommie. =) I'm glad you finally figured it all out. I'm so grateful that my pup and cat don't have allergies, or at least none that have surfaced. *crossing fingers* My vet did let me know that some dogs, very rarely though, are allergic to certain meat. Thats so sad....=*( But either way, i'm happy for you, I cant imagine the stress you had.


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

BoxerMommie said:


> I searched high and low for MONTHS and went through hundreds of dollars of different foods (thank goodness they are refundable brands!) before I found one that works for my allergy dog.


Well, I save people the hundreds of dollars and months, sometimes years to maybe find a kibble that might work for their dog temporarily, If one wishes to take the more difficult road, then they are free to do so.



> I've done the food allergy test (sorry RFD I do not know the brand of it my receipt simply states "allergy test" and a price, I didn't care about the name of the test as long as it worked) and it identified all but 1 of the allergies I suspected and the dairy may be more of a lactose intolerant than an actual allergy (it gives him the runs).


I care about what it his and how it works. Evidently there is no information because I can't find any.



> I will not do raw, and I do not think "one size fits all" when it comes to food for dogs, or for people and for more than one reason.


Well a grain or potato or canola based cereal doesn't fit any dog. Dogs weren't made to eat cereal and they don't tolerate it well but you don't care about that so I won't go into it further.



> I think the key in helping people is to work within their budget as well as their availability, their time constraints, and what they are comfortable doing.


A prey model raw diet is cheaper than all but the cheapest of kibbles and takes me about a hour a month longer to feed than kibble. Of course all the needed ingredients are available in any grocery store. You can buy your dog's food when you are buying yours.



> RFD: If you are so curious about these allergy tests, why don't you call your local vet and ASK them.


I did. He never heard of such a test. The only thing I can find on the internet about food allergies are food trials and one form or another of elimnation diets. I can find nothing about "a test to determine the exact food a dog is allergic to".



> I think most normal people are more concerned with fixing their pet and not inquiring the name of the test how it works, etc.


How it works is critical. I am very wary of tests, products, etc until I know how they work and whether the science behind them is valid or not. Otherwise there is no way to flush out the voodoo medicine.



> I personally don't care, what I do know is it worked and I had not told my vet my suspicions until AFTER the test came back so there's no way it could have been rigged.


I'm not saying it was rigged but until I know how it works, it could be.


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## BabyHusky (Jul 21, 2008)

RFD...please respect that this is the dry food thread and many members here are not looking to go into raw. Please stop dissecting every post with a response that inevitably leads back to "raw is best". And please stop trying to bring in the raw discussion any and every chance you get in this dry section.


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