# Nutrition vs amount needed to maintain weight



## riddick4811 (Nov 2, 2011)

I was wondering, not sure the proper way to word it, but basically say you have 2 dogs, same size being fed the same food. One eats 1 cup of food a day to maintain its proper weight. The other eats 3 cups to maintain its weight. Is the dog being fed 1 cup getting enough nutrition: vitamins, minerals, amino acids, etc. Just b/c the energy requirement is less for the one dog, is the nutritional needs less too? Or would the dog that is eating one cup of food do better on another food where it could eat more and still maintain its weight?


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## 1605 (May 27, 2009)

riddick4811 said:


> I was wondering, not sure the proper way to word it, but basically say you have 2 dogs, same size being fed the same food. One eats 1 cup of food a day to maintain its proper weight. The other eats 3 cups to maintain its weight. Is the dog being fed 1 cup getting enough nutrition: vitamins, minerals, amino acids, etc. Just b/c the energy requirement is less for the one dog, is the nutritional needs less too? Or would the dog that is eating one cup of food do better on another food where it could eat more and still maintain its weight?
> 
> 
> Casper has always ate less than most other dogs his size, but on some foods, he has to eat even less than normal to the point that he gets downright cranky b/c he is still hungry, but if fed more of the food, he gets fat. So I try to find lower calorie foods for him so he can eat at least 3 cups a day. He stays around 115lbs. Also noticed when he is eating more, he seems to do better overall, coat looks better, energy is better, and his personality is more mellow.


No doubt about it, dogs are individuals, just like people. Some have "faster" metabolisms, some need more food while others need less. At 5 yrs old & about 60 lbs Zio is quite satisfied with 10 oz in the am & 8 oz in the evening. But 20 month old Cheeney who is is about 5 lbs lighter but about the same size, always makes you think that he's never getting enough. So occasionally he'll get a little more. But it's all dependent on how much energy they're putting out that day: if they are out in the field that day they will get their "normal amount" plus some extra protein like chicken or fish.

Do whatever works for each dog. However, don't let the volume of food be the guide. You already know that nutritionally 1 cup of Brand A may be more calorie dense than 1 cup of Brand B. So if Casper does ok on 1 cup of Brand A and you know it has the same calorie content of 3 cups of Brand B, don't fall for the "I'm still hungry" routine and feed him more of a lesser food just to "make up for it". Because the "making up for it" is just filler.

Have you thought of giving him "good snacks" during the day that would make up for his thinking that he's not "getting enough food"? Both our guys love carrots.


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## riddick4811 (Nov 2, 2011)

I'm not concerned with Casper. I do what works for him. My question has to do with the nutrition aspect, not the calorie. The vitamins/minerals, trace elements, etc. Is the dog eating the less amount of food getting enough nutrition for there size? 

Casper would kill and eat my small dogs if I cut him back anymore. Dogos don't play with food. They will kill for food.


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## Losech (Jul 10, 2012)

Kibble is so nutrient dense that 1/2 cup gives my Shiba almost everything he needs, but he requires at least 1 cup (EVO) to maintain "skinny". If I fed him purely based on nutrient requirements alone he'd be way underweight. I am pretty confident that my two Border Collie x Labrador Retrievers, who are from the same litter and are the same size but have different metabolisms, are getting everything they need despite the difference in their meal portions. Juneau gets 2 cups, Sasha gets 1 3/4 cups.


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## Sapphire-Light (Aug 8, 2010)

Are you feeding a large breed kibble? maybe bigger kibble pieces could make him feel fuller.


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## karisma11 (Feb 13, 2011)

No, he is nutrient deficient. Try feeding a weight management food with lower kCal per cup.


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## riddick4811 (Nov 2, 2011)

Sapphire-Light said:


> Are you feeding a large breed kibble? maybe bigger kibble pieces could make him feel fuller.


Again, this post has NOTHING to do with my dogs. It was just an example. I was just curious b/c so many people brag about feeding large breed dogs 1 cup of kibble- I just wanted to know if even though the calories were enough, was their enough nutrition in the food to properly sustain them. 

For example (numbers made up) a 50lb dog requires approximately 2000mg of nutrient Y. Dog food has 1000 mg per cup. Dog A is eating 3 cups so he is getting 3000 mg and dog B is eating 1 cup and getting 1000mg. I know there isn't a cut/dry amount per dog, but is their going to be any nutrient deficiencies in Dog B or too much in Dog A? 

I personally Do Not feel feeding so little is healthy. I think it means the food is not working with that dog and another food is needed. A less dense food does not mean it full of filler. It is like saying b/c I can eat a foot long sub from Subway vs 1 Hamburger from McDonalds- Subway is full of fillers. Subway is just healthier and you can eat more, feel full and not gain as much weight vs. eating hamburgers from McDonalds. 


AGAIN THIS IS A GENERAL QUESTION AND HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH MY DOGS


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## Sapphire-Light (Aug 8, 2010)

riddick4811 said:


> Again, this post has NOTHING to do with my dogs. It was just an example. I was just curious b/c so many people brag about feeding large breed dogs 1 cup of kibble- I just wanted to know if even though the calories were enough, was their enough nutrition in the food to properly sustain them.
> 
> For example (numbers made up) a 50lb dog requires approximately 2000mg of nutrient Y. Dog food has 1000 mg per cup. Dog A is eating 3 cups so he is getting 3000 mg and dog B is eating 1 cup and getting 1000mg. I know there isn't a cut/dry amount per dog, but is their going to be any nutrient deficiencies in Dog B or too much in Dog A?
> 
> ...



So is just a general question? ok, that's a good question, It would depend in how the dog react after feeding then.


If the food is very rich but the dog looks acts starved after the meal time and more of the same food would make the dog overweight, then maybe is better to get a food that has less fat but you could feed more.

But if the dog is feeling ok and not interested in eating more, then the food is fine I guess.


For example Pompadour eats very little, like 70 grams of raw in the morning and 3 spoons of kibble along wit 3or 4 spoons of cooked meat in the afternoon even if I add more food he refuses to eat it. 

I remember a vet telling me he should at least eat 2 cups of kibble per day (for a toy dog that's a LOT of food) , but he will never do it.


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## monster'sdad (Jul 29, 2012)

Trying to judge this by how many cups is fed is all wrong. This is what I hate about people saying things like one food is more "dense" so you feed less. I have seen a few friends feed enough calories but not enough protein. The irony is they switched because the protein was higher, but in the end the dog was getting a lower amount of protein and much more fat.

Assume the dog needs at least 1 gram of protein per lb of body weight and then find a food that provides both the right amount of protein and calories.

For most dogs it will be a 25-26/15-16 type. That is why most foods on the market have that kind of formula.

You can easily feed enough calories but not enough protein if you overbuy the food.


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## riddick4811 (Nov 2, 2011)

monster'sdad said:


> Trying to judge this by how many cups is fed is all wrong. This is what I hate about people saying things like one food is more "dense" so you feed less. I have seen a few friends feed enough calories but not enough protein. The irony is they switched because the protein was higher, but in the end the dog was getting a lower amount of protein and much more fat.
> 
> Assume the dog needs at least 1 gram of protein per lb of body weight and then find a food that provides both the right amount of protein and calories.
> 
> ...


See that is what I was getting at but wording it wrong.


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## monster'sdad (Jul 29, 2012)

riddick4811 said:


> See that is what I was getting at but wording it wrong.


People don't factor in that fat has 2.25 times the calories per gram as protein or carbs, and fat is the most effcient.


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## Shamrockmommy (Sep 10, 2009)

Monster's Dad has it right. I have experienced the same issue with the super high protein foods with my girls. They really do much better no higher than 28%.


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## 1605 (May 27, 2009)

monster'sdad said:


> Trying to judge this by how many cups is fed is all wrong. This is what I hate about people saying things like one food is more "dense" so you feed less. I have seen a few friends feed enough calories but not enough protein. The irony is they switched because the protein was higher, but in the end the dog was getting a lower amount of protein and much more fat.
> 
> Assume the dog needs at least 1 gram of protein per lb of body weight and then find a food that provides both the right amount of protein and calories.
> 
> ...


I agree; what the food is made of and the mix (protein, fat, calories) is the key. It's not simply a matter of "more dense so you feed less", which is kind of a catch-all phrase that really doesn't get the point across. (Sorry, I'm guilty of over-using the term myself.)

My dogs are super active and need food with a high protein & fat content otherwise they LOSE weight or don't maintain good muscle mass. That's why EVO Turkey/Chicken works for them. But it's not necessarily a good food for EVERY dog.

Most kibbles today are manufactured to be "nutritionally complete" in that if you feed according to the mfg's instructions for size & weight, they are supposedly getting a balanced diet. But I don't think many of us feed ONLY kibble; we add other sources of protein, fat, even fruit & veggies to their diets and vary what they are fed according to how much energy they've been putting out. And that last part is key my dogs: at this time of the year Da Boyz are getting lots of extras because it's the height of the Field Season and they are competing in field events at least once a week PLUS running/training every other day. 

FWIW,


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## starturtle (Jul 12, 2012)

I have 2 dogs that I can not keep weight on. They have been on Earthborn Holistic Great Plains Feast for about a year now and I fed them double almost triple the suggest feedings. I understand they are only guidelines and all dogs are different, but this is the first time they haven't been close to an amount that works. I had thought about switching to a good grain inclusive food to see if the added carbs might help. But after reading this thread I checked the protein / fat ratio and that may be the issue. I think maybe I should try a lower protein level first.


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## monster'sdad (Jul 29, 2012)

starturtle said:


> I have 2 dogs that I can not keep weight on. They have been on Earthborn Holistic Great Plains Feast for about a year now and I fed them double almost triple the suggest feedings. I understand they are only guidelines and all dogs are different, but this is the first time they haven't been close to an amount that works. I had thought about switching to a good grain inclusive food to see if the added carbs might help. But after reading this thread I checked the protein / fat ratio and that may be the issue. I think maybe I should try a lower protein level first.


Yes, try a food with 10% or less difference between protein and fat. If they are a highly active breed(s), try a 30/20 or 24/20.

The grain inclusive foods like I just mentioned are more purpose-made for highly active or hard keepers.

The 24/20's work fast when it comes to weight. SportMix in the black bag is a great one. The meat meal is 80/20 beef and pork so don't worry.

You can get that food for about $.60lb. Same company that makes Earthborn.


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