# Newbe



## Kitkat771 (Mar 31, 2012)

I'm new here and fairly new to raw feeding. I posted in the introduce yourself forum, but no one responded so I thought I'd try here. I have 2 small dogs who are chihuahua and min pin mixes or atleast that's my guess of their breed. They are rescue dogs. I also have a cat that I took in a few months ago. 
My dogs have had health issues related to gastrointestinal infections and anal gland issues. When I fed them raw briefly awhile back they didn't have any health issues. 
I am a single mom, work full time, and homeschool my kids. I don't have the time to prepare the raw food. It was very time consuming. I also cooked their food for awhile because I was nervous about the raw food due to a book I read. 

I spent over $500 at the vet last month due to HGE in my dog, Chloe. I've decided to go back to raw. I was feeding them Natural Balance LID food. 
To save time I decided to feed my dogs Bravo raw food it's very affordable and much easier. I also buy raw meaty bones and let them eat the meat off of that a couple times a week to help their teeth. 
I am adding Omega 3 oil to their diet too. I feed the cat the same food as my dogs. 
Chloe will not eat any of the commercial raw food. I bought her Ziwi Peak dehydrated Venison and Fish and she loves that. I would prefer her to eat the Bravo as it's much more affordable. 

I just want to make sure I do this right to keep my dogs healthy. My kids and I love them so much! I want to know how to know how much organ meat to give them, how often I should give them meaty bones, when to introduce new varietys of meat, and what suppliments to give them. 

I read that they need Vitamin E to absorb the Omega 3, but I don't know the dosage amounts of these. So far I've given my dog and cat chicken, Turkey organs, and beef. 
Any suggestions on how to get Chloe interested in the raw meat? 
I read it's not good to give too much of a variety of meat too soon so how long before I offer a new kind of meat? They've been eating raw for about 2 weeks now.

Thanks


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## wolfsnaps88 (Jan 2, 2012)

Hello. Welcome to the forum. I personally never go to the introductions page. Maybe I should start? I have been here long enough? We have a wonderful group of people here that are willing to share what they know to help you out. 

I do not give my dogs many supplements. You have to be careful not to overdo things. I feed a prey model diet. It consists of 80% meat 10% bone and 10% organ. Of course, its not EXACTLY that every single day. I make adjustments here and there based on my dog's individual needs. Your dogs are adorable. I am glad you are making the decision to go back to raw. Sounds like your dogs could benefit from it. 

Some members here do give things like coconut oil, emu oil, etc. I hope they chime in and explain what they give and why? I just started my dogs on raw full time (we used to do only part time) and as of now, they get fish oil and occasional plain non fat yogurt. 

I find that buying animal parts as opposed to prepackaged raw diets is cheaper. It does take some leg work to find sources, but once you do, you are golden. You can also check grocery stores for sales and expiring soon meats to save money. I understand you are a home schooling mother. As it is, it takes me about 15 minutes a day to feed my dogs raw and I have three. Two of them require much more food as they are over 100 pounds each. 

As far as bones go, each dog is different. Some dogs can have boneless meals every other day. My small dog can NOT go without bones in his meals. He must have bone everyday. Every dog is different. To start out, I would give your dogs bone in meals at each meal to avoid diarrhea. Its trial and error, and every dog is different. You have to tweak things here and there sometimes. 

Most here will tell you to do one protein at a time, starting with chicken. So I would stay with what you are feeding them for a few more weeks before adding anything new. When you say you are feeding turkey organs, are you talking about hearts and gizzards? Organs should be liver, kidney, and spleen. Heart is a muscle and would be considered a meat. 

Cats are much more difficult to feed raw than dogs are, in my experience. I offered my kitten raw from the beginning and then made the mistake of giving her kibble that my husband got her (before I knew I was keeping her). I would feed the cat canned food only and slowly add cut up pieces of raw into the canned food. I am going to try this myself soon as I see my cat os very interested in the dogs food lately. 

Good luck and Welcome.


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## creek817 (Feb 18, 2012)

^^^^ pretty much everything as above!!

I have only been raw feeding for about 3 months (wow! it feels like so much longer than that!). I probably spend a lot more time/effort doing it than I need to though, so I'm not going to be much help in simplifying things! The one thing I do tend to do though, is spend a few hours once every few weeks/month portioning out food. I usually put a week's worth in a container, since my dog is quite small, but it may be easier to put them in daily bags, then just get one bag out every day. That might save you some time in the long run? Sorry, I'm not much help there!

But, as far as supplements go, I feed:
Coconut Oil - boosts energy, makes his coat nice and shiny, and best of all, he absolutely LOVES it.
Apple Cider Vinegar - I use this mostly to keep his "eye boogers" away. It also helps their coats I believe, and helps with fleas, and digestion, and has quite a few other benefits.
Salmon/Omega 3,6,&9 oil - I use this when I don't have fish, or on the days I don't feed fish, again, mostly for a nice healthy shiny coat!

None of the above are really necessary I don't think, but I am noticing improvements in my dog with them - but that could also be a coincidence with the timing of his raw diet kicking in! 

So, in conclusion, I'm really no help at all. But I wish you luck!


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## Halliebrooks (Dec 8, 2011)

Hello, welcome! 

I just wanted to say that I also have 2 small dogs ... Well one is a foster dog but he is mine for now  
However I was wondering why you found it expensive ? I feed prey model raw and it cost me under 45 dollars a month. So to better understand you situation could you please let me know ?
I see the pre packaged raw and that is about a million times more expensive to feed.
The great thing about having small dogs is a do there food along with my grocery shopping. Depending where you do yours and where you live I manage to get chicken, a variety of organs, pork and beef heart, chicken feet, differents small "lower" cuts of ribs ( pork and beef) and whole fish all at my local super market. 
Also I would like to let you know I don't add any supplements to their diets. If you feed a balanced diet this really is not needed- that's more of a BARF feeding method. And prey modle diet is so simple and easy! If you pre package there meals it just a matter of taking them out of the freezer  
I'm super busy too, and when I do my grocery shopping I just package it up, freeze it. And thaw when needed, 
Now as for the percentages. I find with small dogs that feeding 80/10/10 just to silly because the amounts are so tiny and you would be packaging forever!!
So I do this for example: if its there tenor fish they get it for the week- wednesdays are fish day. So for breakfast they get fish and dinner a raw meaty bone in meal. Done. 
Thursday is organ day- organ for breakfast and raw meaty bone in meal for dinner. Done  see easy  
This has worked for me with tiny Dogs and I couldn't image doing it any other way  
As far as when to feed a new protein is dependent on how your dogs/cat are transitioning to the diet. Do so when you feel they are ready - you will know  but normally you will stick to chicken for a while and then pork and so forth and organs last. 
Either way they are far better then kibble!!! 
Good luck! Theres tons of awesome people here that really know there stuff!


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## wolfsnaps88 (Jan 2, 2012)

Here is what I currently do to prep their meals. (I have changed it around a few times, this works best for me right now)

Take out about 2-3 days worth of meats from freezer and put in fridge (I use both bottom drawers in my fridge because of the amounts I am dealing with. The day I feed, I take out the meats and weigh them. I cut up what I need to and put into dish. Then I feed them outside and clean the cutting board and counter. Minutes....

Some people prep the food all at one time and portion it out into baggies or containers. If I only had one dog, I would do it this way. Then reach in and feed out of baggie. But I have three dogs and I feed about 6 pounds a day. I DID try this out but it was too much work. I think raw can be as simple of complicated as you make it.


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## Kitkat771 (Mar 31, 2012)

Thanks for the replies and information. The pre-packaged food I buy costs $5 for 2 lbs. There are 18 meals in a 2lb package for my small dogs. It comes in a tube and has lines to measure. I cut along the lines and put it in freezer bags and take out a little at a time to place in the fridge. I buy the organs in the same tube and it consists of heart, liver, and gizzards. All the tubes have ground bone in them. However, I add in raw meaty bones to help with their teeth. 

My cat eats anything I give him. I do have some high quality kibble and I do half raw and half kibble with him. He gets upset when his food bowl is empty and he screams so I keep a little kibble in there to keep him happy. I think this may be due to him being a stray and going without food. We named him kitty because we couldn't agree on a name lol. Kitty was underweight when we took him in. He showed up on our porch one day and my youngest daughter really bonded with him. He'd come running everytime he saw my daughter. I have never been a cat person and have always been highly allergic. However, seeing him and my daughter together did something to me. However, he doesn't affect my asthma or allergies so he's a keeper. 


Feeding them this way makes it hard for me to know the percentage of bone, organs, and meat that they are getting. I have been adding 1/8 lb of organs to Miley and Kitty's food every couple of days. Chloe will only eat the Ziwi Peak...but she did like the raw beef meaty rib bone I gave her. They say dogs will not starve themselves, by Chloe does. Due to her small size she gets very dehydrated very quickly when she doesn't eat. I had to hospitilize her for this last month. I can't take her bowl up when she refuses food and try again the next day as this is what I did last month. 

I have the packaged venison and salmon in the freezer...I'll wait a few weeks before I give it to them based on your advise. 
I will look and see how much it would cost to buy meat and organs at the store and compare with the food I'm feeding now. Is there a big health difference between raw meat at the store and the Bravo's pre-packaged raw meat? 

Miley was never aggressive with her food and she has become this way with the raw food. My kids and I can take food from her anytime without a problem, but she now tries to eat hers as fast as she can so she run and eat Chloes food too. I now have to seperate the dogs when I feed them. Chloe is submissive and will easily give up her food to Miley...but I wont allow that. 

I forgot to add a picture of Kitty so here he is. I hope the attachment shows up...I don't know if I did it right.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

if your dogs are happy and their stools are fairly stable and they are drinking water and look alive with bright frisky eyes, then i'd say you're doing fine.

if bravo is what you want to feed, and it's what they will eat...that or ziwipeak, then fine....certainly, you're doing the best you can by them and they seem to be thriving.

you have small dogs. they don't need much in the way of organs. 

the percentages are really a guideline but a good one...

i'd say 70% protein -- 10% fat -- 5% liver -- 5% other organs, such as the ones i mentioned below.


i presume the bravo does not come with organ meat already included?

if not, then you take a paring knife and cut a sliver of liver for each dog.....and a sliver of kidney or spleen or brain or thymus or pancreas ....

they don't need much.

what they do need is enough fat to keep them healthy and energetic and if you see they are not getting enough, then add in some dietary fat....if you feed grass fed/grass finished beef and other proteins, then you should not have to worry about omega threes, but it's not a bad idea to get them fish oil or wild salmon oil with vitamin e, that is made without soy, a common allergen.

other than that....if your dogs have eye boogers or yeasty ears, bragg's unrefined raw apple cider vinegar...a tiny bit...will do wonders for that...but not imperative if you don't have problems.

coconut oil is an everything oil...unrefined and extra virgin....nativa is a good brand to get....we give it to our dogs because it's like a miracle oil, even though it is vegetable based....it makes them all shiny and soft....when i use it on my hands, i rub it on them, too.....they become lush.

it's also good in that it keeps their insides clean....

beyond that, start with what you have and go from there. 

introduce your proteins slowly....and in small amounts.

bravo and ziwipeak should come with a percentage of bone..if you find their stools are a little too chalky, white or dusty, get some chicken and give them some boneless chicken or pork or fish or beef....

welcome to raw and welcome to the forum


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## wolfsnaps88 (Jan 2, 2012)

How much do your dogs weigh? I find it hard to believe you can feed 18 meals from 2 lbs? My smallest dog is larger than your two at 23 lbs. and he eats 8 ounces a day (half a pound). I am too tired to do the math but this can't be right. This could explain why Miley is trying to steal Chloe's food. 

Also with higher value (yummier) food, you can expect to see resource guarding with some dogs. My small dog does this too. As long as the humans can take it away, its not really a problem. 

You are paying $2.50 a pound for your dog food. I don't know where you live and prices are regional, but I am pretty sure you could feed them very well on regular cuts of chicken/pork/beef/etc. at that price. Ground meats are ok on occasion but I would not feel comfortable feeding only ground meats myself. They need to work their jaws on whole pieces of meat. Not to mention that ground carries more bacteria because of all the nooks and crannies. 

These are just my opinions. 

Also, You have a very pretty kitty indeed. I am glad he doesn't give you allergy grief.


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## Kitkat771 (Mar 31, 2012)

My dogs weigh about 8lbs and 2-3% of their body weight would be about 1/4 of a pound. They are fairly active dogs. Miley will turn 3 in May and I don't know Chloe's age, but I would guess she's around the same age as Miley. I feed them twice a day so I cut the 1/4 lb in half in the morning and give the rest in the evening. They are a perfect weight right now. I'll keep an eye on that. Now that it's warmer outside they are even more active so I will add more food if I see it's needed. 
I will price the meat at the store. I think Chloe will eat meat from the store while she will not eat the pre-packaged raw meat. Chloe ate raw meat from the store when I first fed raw several months ago so I hope she will still eat it.
I feed Kitty about 1/4 lb a day and he gets a little kibble too.

I may do a little of both..the packaged stuff and fresh. That way on the nights we are short on time I have a quick option. Some evenings I don't get home until late after work and from the kids activities etc. Would it be okay to mix the two like that?


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## Halliebrooks (Dec 8, 2011)

. Is there a big health difference between raw meat at the store and the Bravo's pre-packaged raw meat? 

There is for two reasons- first of all you are over paying. But secondly - and this is more Important- you are buying food that is "dog" quality and not human quality. 
Take a look on you tube about what's really in your dogs food- its horrible. There are NO regulaions!! So by feeding human grade food you will see its cheaper and also peace of mind! And btw grinds carry more bacteria then whole foods. 

Remember there is no such thing as dog food, only food


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## Kitkat771 (Mar 31, 2012)

Bravo food is made in the same plant that human food is made. It's organic food and is human grade meats. I researched the company before choosing it. The only ingredients listed in the specific meats is the meat. 
The chicken has the following ingredients listed: Antibiotic-free, skinless chicken necks and bones

There are some that say blends with it...like beef blend and it contains more ingredients.

The beef blends ingredients list is: Beef, beef organs (livers, hearts, kidneys), beef bone, celery, acorn squash, turnip, sunflower oil, salt, potassium chloride, vitamin E, zinc oxide, copper sulfate, ferrous sulfate, manganous oxide, potassium iodide, vitamin D

Venison: Grass-fed, hormone-free, boneless venison meat. 

Here is there website: Bravo! - The Diet Designed by Nature for Healthy Dogs and Cats

Based on their website and the google research I did I feel that this is a good brand of prepackaged raw food.


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## Kitkat771 (Mar 31, 2012)

In the food I buy them there are no fillers, grains, and no veggies. The ingredients only list meat. In the chicken it says chicken, chicken livers, and chicken bones. It is also made in a plant where they also make human food. It is inspected and made in the USA. I don't see a difference between that and meat from the supermarket. It is ground meat though and I understand there is a risk. However, the company states they check for bacteria before they package it. I am also giving my dogs raw meaty bones several times a week.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

the food you buy is probably better than much of what we buy in grocery stores, especially the products from new zealand. can't speak for the chicken, as i don't know from where it is sourced.

if the product already has organ, such as liver in it, then you're half way to all the way there, since heart is not an organ but a rich muscle meat....

if you can afford it and this is how you want to go, i think you're fine. 

since you feed it frozen, then you have a good chance of not getting too much bacteria.

and if you're giving your dogs turkey legs or wings a few times a week...well, all i can say there is to be careful that you don't feed too much bone, since bravo has a percentage of bone.

i think you have to sleep at night and be able to afford to feed.....to me, this is better than kibble...believe me, your dogs could be a whole lot worse.....and at this point, they are doing a whole lot better.

might not be a bad idea to see if you can get some tripe and some other organs, such as kidney or spleen or pancreas....

GreenTripe.Com Main Index sells tripe with other organs in it...also they sell a greentripe with trachea and gullet, i believe which is good for their joints...they also come in chubs.


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## Halliebrooks (Dec 8, 2011)

I agree with the fact that your dogs are much better off then kibble and happy to hear you made the switch. 
I don't understand why you posted the question and the fact that you found feeding raw expensive previously If you are happy with your feeding choice and where your gettin it from. 
I don't agree that it's probably better then food in a grocery store however- you can't be certain that they are grinding your meat by human standards just because it's made in the same plant as human grade foods. 
Either way whatever works for you and your dogs. Hope all gose well with your switch


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## MissusMac (Jan 6, 2011)

Hello & welcome from another Texan! Congrats on making the switch to raw 

I'm not sure where you are, but try to utilize local raw feeding coops like the Austin or Houston ones... very active folks that will help you make feeding raw more cost efficient.


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## Kitkat771 (Mar 31, 2012)

I'm in the Dallas/Fort Worth area. I did request to join one of the yahoo groups a week ago, but the moderator hasn't approved my membership yet. Do you know where I can find another one?


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## BeagleCountry (Jan 20, 2012)

Kitkat771 said:


> I'm in the Dallas/Fort Worth area. I did request to join one of the yahoo groups a week ago, but the moderator hasn't approved my membership yet. Do you know where I can find another one?


You can feed PMR (chicken, turkey, pork, beef) in the D/FW area under $2.00/lb. by shopping at grocery stores. Purchasing during weekly sales will bring the cost down more. The sales usually change on Wednesday. They are posted on each store's web site. The key is to use beef heart rather than other cuts of beef. Xellil (Snorkel's mom) lives in the area. She recently visited an Asian market in Dallas, I think, where they had some interesting items. Hopefully, she will stop by with more info. HEB and Hispanic markets are also good resources.

Texas Tripe delivers to the D/FW area on a monthly basis. You need to register on the site to see the prices but he does not spam or sell the email addresses. When an item is not currently available it may be deleted from the site to return when there is more stock or it may show "out of stock". I have been pleased with my orders from Texas Tripe. Others, were not pleased with a chicken blend and venison trim. It seems he is low on several items now but it is worth taking a look.
Texas Tripe - Raw Foods for Dogs and Cats in North Texas


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## MissusMac (Jan 6, 2011)

I order from Texas Tripe, too and have been happy with them. The only thing is that the packaging is messy (black trash bags in cardboard boxes), so come with a big cooler! If they are out of something, I usually email them and ask if there is any more or to be notified when it's back in stock (usually tripe).


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