# What the hell, murphy!?



## meggels (May 30, 2010)

I am very frustrated!!!!


Murph was having loose stools as you guys know. 

For about a week, I caved, and fed Murph premade chicken vital essentials. He firmed right up. Perfect, tiny, crumbly little poops. 

Ingredients:

Ground chicken with bone, chicken heart, chicken liver, herring oil (a natural source of vitamin D), d-alpha tocopherol, mixed tocopherols, (a natural antioxidant) natural vitamin E.



Since Saturday night, Murphy is back to eating wings and drummies, because I DO want him to be on PMR style. I feel it's more beneficial in several ways.


But, since then, the poops seem to be getting softer and softer. What the heck?  He had his anal glands done today because they were full the vet said, I'm guessing from the few weeks of on and off loose stools. 

I wanna get him to keep having great poops. But it makes me sad and frustrated to see him getting softer again since yesterday.


I have trouble getting all the skin off of wings, I will be honest, so sometimes he gets the wing with probably 1/4 the skin left. I find drummies to be easier so I get pretty much all the skin off, and even cut off some of the meat itself, to try to make the bone percentage a little higher (does that make sense?)


Argh. Very frustrated


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## minnieme (Jul 6, 2011)

I'm confused too....hard to believe his poos are harder on something with organ in the mix, than just meat and bone. The bone content in that mix must be sky high!

Sorry I can't be of more assistance....I empathize though. I was doing the same kind of butchering for Minnie (skin, muscle meat cut off, etc)...and it gets old after a while. Hope he feels better soon... Curious to see what others say and how he does in the days to come!


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Honestly his diet has changed, been switched around so much in the not so distant future that I'm not surprised that he's been so inconsistent. 

I would love for you to pick a feeding style and stick to it, be consistent. 

If you are going to do PMR and actually stick with it for the rest of his life, then feeding him like you've been doing (and yes it makes sense) chicken wings and drummies with most of the skin and fat removed for at least a few weeks until he's had a solid weeks worth of solid poo.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

Natalie, I will stick with PMR. I am just frustrated that within a day of being back on Vital Essentials, after weeks of diarrhea or semi soft poos, he's completely firm. It's just frustrating. 


I think I might just stick with drummies since they are so much easier to get the skin off of (wings really are the bane of my existence) and just slice off some of the meat as well to try to make them more boney. My dog food guy has chicken necks readily available too, but those looked like they had skin as well, and I'm not sure how much easier those will be to deskin (have no experience with the necks).


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

glad you decided on a way of feeding, meghan.....and that's half the problem....the switching back and forth. can't tell you how many times i've messed up my own system trying one thing and then changing....

personally, if you can handle the loose stools, as long as it isn't diarrhea, i'd leave the skin on the drumsticks and necks and feed both for a bit...

diarrhea is how often murph is pooing the loose stuff...if murph has one or two stools per day that happen to be looser than you'd like, that's not diarrhea.....

.and will resolve itself...as long as you stay on track....which you have now promised to do....cross your heart on murph's head 

if, on the other hand, murph is blowing poo out of his bottom five or six times a day, that is diarrhea, and then i'd skin whatever you're feeding.


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## Celt (Dec 27, 2010)

Chicken necks are pretty easy to skin. I do it all the time. Mostly it's just pull and done.


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## PennyGreyhuahua (Aug 13, 2011)

are you able to find some chicken necks? usually they are skinless and mostly bones...my girl stopped chicken necks because her poo basically got dusty...


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## BoxerPaws (Jul 19, 2011)

Any chance whatsoever you've gotten chicken too high in sodium? I know everyone who has posted so far is aware of the low-sodium rule, but sometimes you just grab a deal and forget to check!

Lowering Murph's portion sizes a bit might help too. That worked wonders for Zoey when I got a little overzealous with increasing her portions early on.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

bower paws- it could be possible. I threw away the packaging though when I bought it (and just portioned it out). What should I look for? I'm going to pick up some chicken tonight.


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## BoxerPaws (Jul 19, 2011)

meggels said:


> bower paws- it could be possible. I threw away the packaging though when I bought it (and just portioned it out). What should I look for? I'm going to pick up some chicken tonight.


Just make sure whatever you buy is (I'm pretty sure) no more than 80 mg sodium per 4 oz portion (which I think is considered serving size. Even if the packaging says it's not "enhanced" or something like that, check the nutrition info label (if you're buying from the grocery store, they have all labels). I've bought a couple of whole roaster chickens from the grocery store in a pinch, and even though the front says there are no additives or enhancements, it still has 75 mg sodium per serving.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

ok thanks! will make sure to check the label tonight.


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## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

Is it possible you are overfeeding on the PMR?


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

he gets either a drummie in the am and a wing in the pm, or a wing in the am and wing in the pm. 

he's also down to 19.5lbs when weighed at vet yesterday. that's 1 lb  if anything i'd like him to gain a pound or two.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

I am glad to hear that you're planning on sticking it out with PMR...

For now, I would get his digestive system happy and under control before worrying about his weight. Its not like he's emaciated at all, just thin. Nothin' wrong with being a little thin! 

Thinking back, his diet has changed many times in the past six months, so it may take some time to get his system on track. 

Keep it up and be patient :biggrin:


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

as natalie says, don't worry about his weight for now.

he'll gain it back as you intro new proteins.

on the back of the chicken pack is something that says nutrition information or something like that.

it will give you a breakdown of calories, fat, etc...it also tells you the sodium count per serving. that's the number you want to look at.

also, usually in front of the package, unless it's from the store, in which case you can ask the butcher from where the chickens came.....but in the
front of the package....you might see 'no added salt'. or 'up to 4% retained water'....things like that...'no antibiotics, no hormones' something that says the fda doesn't permit hormones and antibiotics.

that's what you want to see. and what we do is soak the chicken or, at the very least, rinse that pinky slimey fluid off....


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## schtuffy (May 17, 2010)

Ya, don't stress about the weight. Louis lost over 2 lbs after switching, which is a lot when he's only 13 lbs or so. It took awhile to put those pounds back on, but after he was fully transitioned, I was able to do it with richer meats like heart. Now he's back to his 13 lb self!

I also hated skinning chicken wings in the beginning...man were they a pain! So I switched to necks for awhile. I was lucky enough to find them already skinned, but I would imagine you can just sorta cut a slit down the side and peel it off.


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## minnieme (Jul 6, 2011)

BoxerPaws is dead on...check that sodium level!!! So many times I think the packaging is really misleading. I've found out that "all natural," "organic," etc doesn't actually mean sh*t. 

Also don't worry about a pound. Minnie lost over TEN pounds in the month I was trying to transition her to raw. Granted she is bigger... and I messed up a LOT...but it generally resulted in me looking like this: :scared: . Hehe. Feel your pain but a pound, even for his size, can be quickly added back on. Never fear!


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

thanks guys. and i'm glad i'm not the only one who finds chicken wings a friggin pain in the ass! drummies are sooooo much easier. and i'll look into getting the necks if they are easy as well.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

Just thought I'd upate...

1) Natalie and Linsey- Murph had a wonderful poop yesterday morning LOL! Thanks for listening to me freak out. 

2) He's been on necks for a few meals, I'm a big fan of them lol! Very easy to just rip the skin off, and Murph loves them. We are going back to my holistic guy's store tomorrow to pick up several pounds.

3) Murph's poos are getting better. not rock hard, but not as liquidy. Just a softer, but formed, poo.  

4) I think Murph is really looking the best he has in awhile between the raw and the emu oil on his coat/itchy spots  And we got a compliment Friday from my holistic guy (who adores Murph) and he said Murph is just stunning and truly "exemplary" of the breed  Made me feel good. 


Murph came to do a demo with me yesterday (I work for Natural Balance). He gets to come to two stores when I demo there, my holistic guru's store that I mentioned before, and another small privately owned store that loves him. He spent four hours yesterday being petted, loved on, fed treats, etc. It was an adoption event and I can't even tell you how many people asked if he was up for adoption lol. I had to break many hearts. He just trots around the store greeting people. I really am blessed, he's one in a million.


This little girl was with one of the adoption groups and she looooooved Murph. She kept trying different leashes on him and walking him around the store, and like a good little boy, he humored her and trotted around the store lol.











Afterwards, so tired.


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