# Hunger Pukes and Chalky Poops



## _unoriginal (Apr 8, 2012)

HELP! :lol:

Okay so I've been raw feeding for almost 4 months now. At first, Bentley was doing really well. Good poops, not too hard, not too soft. No hunger pukes or bone fragment pukes.. Any then about 2-3 months ago it all started going downhill. I thought it was a late detox or something but it seems to be getting worse. Here's the dilemma...

So the hunger pukes (no bone in them) happen around 5a. I try to feed him just before bed so that he doesn't have these problems. During the week, he gets fed every morning at 7a and every night anywhere from 6-10p. On the weekends, I try to stretch the morning meals to 9a and usually, we're okay. 

I've been trying out different types of meals for dinner that might take longer to digest and thus keep the hunger pukes at bay. The only thing I've found that works 90% of them time has been pork necks. Luckily they're cheap for me so I can keep stock if I need to. This brings me to the other problem though.. I don't want to feel like I'm forced to feed tons of bone every night. In reality, I'd like to get on a schedule of every 3rd meal is bone-in because, surprise, he's got awful chalky poops. 

The pork necks are about a pound a piece and unfortunately, I want to be feeding about a pound per day. In the mornings, I give a little boneless meat but a very small amount. He has NO issue with hunger pukes during the day, which is great because the nightly pork neck takes up most of his daily meal but is bad because his poops are extremely chalky. Because his poops are chalky, he ends up having to poop multiple times throughout the day and sometimes even waking me up at 3-4a to go outside to poop.

I really don't know what to do. I need to stay on raw because Bentley just cannot digest kibble anymore but I need to figure out how to avoid hunger pukes AND chalky/several poops.

:tape2:

PS- Sorry if this is confusing, I'll explain better if I need to.. I think I kind of went off track, who knows.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Can you go to one meal a day? 7am seems awfully early for a meal. He may be anticipating it no matter how late he eats because he's eating as soon as he wakes up. 

I feed my dogs three times a day but I don't feed them until at least 9am. 

Some folks vary their feeding times from morning to night to stop the anticipation.

I agree - a pound of pork neck is alot of bone.


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## _unoriginal (Apr 8, 2012)

xellil said:


> Can you go to one meal a day? 7am seems awfully early for a meal. He may be anticipating it no matter how late he eats because he's eating as soon as he wakes up.
> 
> I feed my dogs three times a day but I don't feed them until at least 9am.
> 
> ...


I would LIKE to do one meal per day and have it only be at night because really, it would make my mornings before work much easier.. But I mean, that would mean that I'd have to wait it out with more hunger pukes until he gets used to it right? I wish I could say I wouldn't have a problem with that but I'd be lying.. I mean really, I don't get any sleep any more because my dog is waking me up in the middle on the night for one reason or another. But I guess if that's what I have to do, then that's what I'll do.. I might just complain about it for a while..

Another thing I was thinking is that I might actually be setting his transition back by increasing bone consumption to battle hunger pukes and I'm in essence "training" his body to not have to get used to the empty feeling. Thoughts?


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## Makovach (Jan 24, 2012)

I had both problems with Annie in the beginning. 

What I did was stop giving scheduled meals. We started feeding both dogs spuraticly through out the day. We worked our way from a 3 meals, to two a day. When ever we gave food, they ate. Now two months in, some days they only get fed once a day. It seemed so mean to me, but now she isn't having any hunger pukes. Her stomach is learning it is okay to be empty for a little bit. Eventually, they will go completely to once a day feeding, or a tid bit in the morning, most later. 

And cut out a lot of bone. Annie generally only gets bone every third day. Some times she gets light bone in between. Her schedule has just changed again adding even more boneless/ less bone because of sand poops. 

This is probably not of much help as it is only my personal experience, but scheduled feeding times were not working for us. Hopefully some one will have better advise than I.

Good luck to you! I hope you can find something that works for your pup.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

_unoriginal said:


> I would LIKE to do one meal per day and have it only be at night because really, it would make my mornings before work much easier.. But I mean, that would mean that I'd have to wait it out with more hunger pukes until he gets used to it right? I wish I could say I wouldn't have a problem with that but I'd be lying.. I mean really, I don't get any sleep any more because my dog is waking me up in the middle on the night for one reason or another. But I guess if that's what I have to do, then that's what I'll do.. I might just complain about it for a while..
> 
> Another thing I was thinking is that I might actually be setting his transition back by increasing bone consumption to battle hunger pukes and I'm in essence "training" his body to not have to get used to the empty feeling. Thoughts?


If you could vary - some in the morning, some at night or afternoon like Makovich says - that should stop them. 

Maybe you could do the change over the weekend. I dealt with hunger pukes for several months so I know what a pain in the rear it is; however, it seems what you are doing now isn't making it better, only delaying it.


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## _unoriginal (Apr 8, 2012)

Thanks for the feedback guys.. I'm gonna start his reset right now. No dinner and I'll deal with the hunger pukes when they come. He'll be on boneless to minimal bone with random meals throughout the days this weekend. I'll try to come home from work in the middle of the day and give him a small snack or something. Luckily, he won't waste away if he skips a meal or two.

If you think I'm going about this the wrong way, please speak up. I feel like I screwed up the past couple of months and I really want my boy to excel with raw.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Oh we all screw up! just today I made Snorkels puke her guts up (again) because I keep forgetting I can't feed her a ton of blood. I'm so senile.

I think you have a good plan. Lots of people here feed once per day and one of the reasons is to avoid the hunger pukes as well as make it easier to feed more meat in one meal. Plus it's convenient.

also, if you are reducing bone just keep an eye on his poops. Sometimes they do need more bone at first.


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## xchairity_casex (Oct 8, 2011)

yikes 7 am? i coulnt imagine even being awake that early Cesar gets one emal per day between noon and 4pm cesars only ever had one hunger puke so i lucked out on that.

i really feel for you getting up and down all night ever since switching to raw Cesar would poop once a day and that "once" was always around 4 am but then he was dealing with diareah/constipation off and on for a while when he was getting alot of beef so it was go to bed at 11:30 be woken up at 3am go back to sleep be woken up at 6am go back to bed be woken up at 8 am go back to bed get woken up at 9 am go back to bed till i got up at 11 well now his poops are back to normal but he is still on the habbit of wakeing up 3 or more times a night he wakes me up i let him out he sits on the steps to watch the neighbors yard in teh dark i get soo frustrated but sure enough if i ignored his call i would end up cleaning up severe cannon butt the next morning i jut know it


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

Just my .02$

I feed once a day in the afternoon between 4 and 9pm. I don't always feed at the same time and sometimes I feed very late or earlier (for example we are leaving to go camping tomorrow and I will feed them at least 5 hours before we leave)

I have 3 dogs of various size and breed. Very rarely do we have hunger puke's in this house. When they do have a HP, I feed them a few ounces to settle their tummy and then they are fine.

I think the reason we have very few hunger pukes (under 10 since October), is because they do not anticipate their meals. They don't think about it until I say the word "hungry", then it's game on.

Anyway, this is all IMO, and what I have noticed with my menagerie


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

Same here - no hunger pukes because I feed anytime. Sometime in the morning sometimes right before bed or anytime in between. They do really well even youngsters - though they often need multiple meals depending on age. All the adults are on 1 meal per day.


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## wolfsnaps88 (Jan 2, 2012)

Yeah, what Sprocket said. My dogs have never hunger puked. Maybe I am lucky? The only time I ever noticed bile vomit was when Dozer ate a pound of grass. 

I feed my dogs in the afternoon between 5pm and 8pm and sometimes earlier or later, just depends. I only feed once a day despite Sarge's disapproval. Cut out some bone but not all bone. Feeding too many boneless meals will possibly create black tar poops which are HORRIBLE (especially on carpet at 2 in the morning). 

Every dog is different so we can't really tell you how much is right. Trial and error, and thats why poop observation is so important. 

If you try once a day with variable feeding times and he still hunger pukes, see if you can give him something to tide him over like green beans. Yes, I know they are not part of a PMR diet but I have heard this works for some dogs. 

And sprocket, have a nice time. PICTURES!


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## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

We feed once a day here as well and we also vary our feeding times drastically. These guys can be fed at any time throughout the day morning or night.

One thing I have noticed, though, is that my younger and therefore more active guy is the one who suffers from the occasional hunger pukes. 

Dude is 8 and lays around all day. His only exercise is when we go to the dog park and he just trots around sniffing and peeing and when we go for walks and hikes. 

Buck, on the other hand, is only one year old and is ALWAYS doing something (though not a nuisance). He is chewing on one of his toys, throwing toys down the hallway for himself (he is a thrower AND a retriever), getting me to play with him, etc. When we are at the dog park he is a hardcore run, run, run kind of dog who will play fetch with a tennis ball and a chuck it until he drops dead (but he's not like those crazy ball obsessed dogs you see). He burns SO much more energy than Dude does. 

So I wonder if active dogs are more prone to hunger pukes because their body would use up the "fuel" so much faster. I don't know much about the way their bodies work as far as rate of digestion and use of the energy they get from their food but Dude never suffers from hunger pukes and Buck suffers from them once in a while when he has had a really active week. Almost like his "energy source" isn't enough to keep up with the demands of his body and he pukes when he is running on empty.

Does that make sense to anyone?

Anyhow, what I would do in your situation is:

-weigh the pork neck
-give it to him for a little while
-take it away
-weigh it again
-replace what amount he has left to eat with boneless. 

That way, you can still use the pork necks but you can get some boneless in there too. I have been doing that a lot lately since we have a TON of bony beef scrap in the freezer along with lots of beef heart. Buck only needs bone every four or five days so in order to get rid of some of the bony stuff I have been giving him bone more often without making it a whole meal. 

Another solution, if you have introduced organs already (or even if you haven't) would be to give him a chunk of organ with the necks to prevent him from having chalky poops. Dude is always going from one extreme to the other if he doesn't get his usual chicken quarters with 30% bone. He gets really stopped up with our bony pieces and I just give him a big chunk of liver or kidney to help keep things from getting too... dusty.


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## Donna Little (May 31, 2011)

I could be wrong with this theory but I would almost think that if your guy was getting most of his food in the form of bone, even if it temporarily makes his belly feel full it's not enough meat to really fuel him between meals. This isn't the best example but it seems like it would be sort of like me eating a ton of lettuce, until I was full but it's really not enough of anything to keep me going so I'm gonna be hungry again soon.
I had one dog do the hunger puke thing a couple of times in the first week but after that everyone adjusted right away.
My guys are all small and I want them to have a harder bone to chew than chicken a couple of times a week and pork necks is what I give too. They're cheap and give them a good workout for their teeth and jaws. But it's way too much bone for my dogs so I do what D & B's mom suggested and I give everyone a pretty big piece in our dog room and just sit in there with them. I let everyone eat part of it and then take them back away and refreeze for another day. That way they're getting some bone and meat but aren't overdoing it on the bone.
I've been feeding raw for a year and am still tweaking things so don't worry too much about getting it wrong. You'll get it figured out and your dog will thank you for being such a good mom! :smile:


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

Jesse, 

I have noticed something interesting to go along with your theory.

Mikey is the one that has has the majority of the HP. I can maybe count 5. He is the least active dog and the oldest.

Sprocket is second with 3 or 4 HP. He is almost 3 and very active.

Gunner is the youngest and I don't think he has ever had a HP, I'll say one since I can't recall. He is most active than the rest.


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## kady05 (Jul 29, 2011)

Dude and Bucks Mamma said:


> So I wonder if active dogs are more prone to hunger pukes because their body would use up the "fuel" so much faster. I don't know much about the way their bodies work as far as rate of digestion and use of the energy they get from their food but Dude never suffers from hunger pukes and Buck suffers from them once in a while when he has had a really active week. Almost like his "energy source" isn't enough to keep up with the demands of his body and he pukes when he is running on empty.
> 
> Does that make sense to anyone?


Yup, makes sense to me! On days where Sako is more active than normal, he usually pukes at around 5:15pm (I feed them at around 5:30-6pm). 


Honestly, I had to switch Wilson to 50/50 raw and kibble (I think I told you this Amara) because of this problem. I was cleaning up bile every morning for weeks, it was ridiculous. And very random too.. he did fine for a couple months then out of the blue started with the puking. I'm too OCD to feed meals sporadically.. just can't do it. So now he gets his raw in the AM, and kibble at night. Problem solved, and it's helped me save some money too since Wilson eats the least out of my 3. 

I would like to eventually feed one meal a day, but for now, twice works best for me. I find it funny how a few here think feeding at 7am is early.. I get up around then everyday, so that's when I feed.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

kady05 said:


> I would like to eventually feed one meal a day, but for now, twice works best for me. I find it funny how a few here think feeding at 7am is early.. I get up around then everyday, so that's when I feed.


I gotta at least have my coffee first!

I actually feed three times a day. I tried twice and for some reason eating more food at one time made Snorkels sick. So we are back to three times.


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## Sheltielover25 (Jan 18, 2011)

Liz said:


> Same here - no hunger pukes because I feed anytime. Sometime in the morning sometimes right before bed or anytime in between. They do really well even youngsters - though they often need multiple meals depending on age. All the adults are on 1 meal per day.


I feed one meal a day and also rarely get hunger pukes. I even feed every other day a lot of times and they're fine but they have eaten double the day before. I have a question, though -- do you notice they stare and stare and sometimes whine for their meal? I feed at various times but usually between 8am-1pm. I work from home so they'll just sit and stare and wait for the meal. Do most dogs do this until fed?


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## Tobi (Mar 18, 2011)

We like "liz" feed all over the clock, sometimes he gets fed at 2am if i'm still up and i feel so inclined... sometimes before my wife leaves for work she gives him food at 6am, sometimes i feed him in the afternoon, evening, it doesn't matter much when they eat, as long as they get fed at some point, and as long as they aren't in a routine, when we were feeding at 6pm every night day in day out, hunger pukes were abundant at about 4-5am. now... haven't had one in about 10 months. :thumb:

Chalky poop is a surefire indicator of too much bone. that simple :smile:


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## _unoriginal (Apr 8, 2012)

Hey everyone, wanted to give a bit of an update.

So today is day 2 of one meal per day at random times during the day. We haven't had any hunger pukes yet. When he wakes me up in the middle of the night because he's smacking his lips, I take him out for a small walk and it seems to settle his tummy without offering food. Is this normal? Maybe it gets his mind off his empty stomach? It seems to be working so as long as I don't need to clean up any messes, I'm okay!

I also wanted to let you know that when I said boneless-to-minimal-bone diets, I didn't mean permanently. I meant that yesterday's meal was pure boneless. Today's meal was mostly boneless with a small chicken leg that had been in the fridge for about 5 days. I get that it needs to be balanced per the dog.

But thanks for all the tips. So far, so good, hopefully this trend continues :smile:


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## _unoriginal (Apr 8, 2012)

Tobi said:


> Chalky poop is a surefire indicator of too much bone. that simple :smile:


I know, but using bone to combat hunger pukes.. All the issues were tied in together, which is why I included it all here.


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## _unoriginal (Apr 8, 2012)

kady05 said:


> Yup, makes sense to me! On days where Sako is more active than normal, he usually pukes at around 5:15pm (I feed them at around 5:30-6pm).
> 
> Honestly, I had to switch Wilson to 50/50 raw and kibble (I think I told you this Amara) because of this problem. I was cleaning up bile every morning for weeks, it was ridiculous. And very random too.. he did fine for a couple months then out of the blue started with the puking. I'm too OCD to feed meals sporadically.. just can't do it. So now he gets his raw in the AM, and kibble at night. Problem solved, and it's helped me save some money too since Wilson eats the least out of my 3.
> 
> I would like to eventually feed one meal a day, but for now, twice works best for me. I find it funny how a few here think feeding at 7am is early.. I get up around then everyday, so that's when I feed.


Thanks Kady, I know you dealt with it too. I cannot go back to kibble though. Bentley can't digest it. I'll take random hunger pukes over him vomiting entire undigested meals hours after eating them. I just need to condition his stomach more for all of this.

And 7a isn't THAT early.. I mean I work every day at 7:30a so I guess it's early but it's not like I would really have a choice in the mornings.


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