# Dr. Tim's



## Egil_Ellis (Aug 12, 2010)

I have raced my team of pointer/husky crosses in the major sprint sled dog races in Alaska for the last three years on Dr Tim's Momentum dog food. The new formula of Momentum that I started using this year has worked out very well with the dogs showing great stamina, strength and shiny coats. Our dogs live outside all year and are put under a lot of stress during training/racing season so we need a calorie dense food to satisfy their needs. Dr Tim's Momentum has clearly showed it's strength on our Championship team. Give it a try, you'll be glad you did!
Egil Ellis
Willow, Alaska


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## Lois_and_Eric (Aug 13, 2010)

Dr. Tim's is a great food. We have a small kennel 
and strive to feed only high quality food. Momentum
and Pursuit have proven their quality. Tim Hunt 
has developed a quality product and is very tuned 
to the needs of his customers.


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## Dori1 (Aug 13, 2010)

We have watched Dr. Tim work with those with athletic dogs until finally he has hit on the correct formula which works very well for dogs under the heavy stress of training and racing. With tenacity he never gave up until he had fixed all problems and now has a quality food that he can be proud to sell. On top of that he has worked with mushers and listened to all their comments and concerns, not just commiserating with them, but digging in to rectify it. The amount of stress on sprint dogs is incredible and it takes an exceptionally good food for the dogs to maintain weight and performance. Good work Dr. Tim!


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## Brent_Sass (Aug 13, 2010)

I love this food! I've been feeding Momentum for 5 plus years and it has gotten better and better. I have run 4 Yukon Quest on Momentum and my dogs have never turned a meal away. I've stuck with momentum not only because it is a good food but also because I know that Tim cares about it and is going to provide the best possible product. This new formula is top notch and a food I plan to feed for years to come.. My dogs love this food and I am sure yours will too! Give it a try

Brent Sass 
Fairbanks,AK


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## Michelle6 (Feb 12, 2010)

I had never heard of this food so I decided to check it out.All I can say is shame on you Dr. Tim for adding Menadione (synthetic vitamin K) to your dog food.To anyone using this brand I suggest you switch to another brand. http://www.drtims.com/momentum.php


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## Michelle6 (Feb 12, 2010)

Here is some info on Menadione,please read- http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=menadione


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## GermanSheperdlover (Nov 15, 2009)

Michelle, how can I get a hold of you???


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## dr_tim (Aug 16, 2010)

Michelle;

The menadione confusion has primarily arose from the web and concientious folks being mislead, in my opinion. Vitamin K is an essential vitamin and can be supplied from leafy vegetables, oils and synthetic sources.Problem is is that the non synthetic sources have great variability with having enough vitamin k to do the job. The toxicity levels of vitamin K are over 1000 times the recommended amount to be added to a diet according to AAFCO guidelines. Vit k has also been used for over 50 years in poultry, swine and companion animals for over 50 years without incident. Vitamin K is added by food companies as insurance against the vegetable sources of vit k not supplying enough of the vitamin. Lastly, when I have used vitamin k as an antidote for rat poison ingestion we are in the 100 times the normal AAFCO recommendation for inclusion of vitamin K and I have never seen a problem with those dogs, only dramatic improvement.

Thank you for your concern but I do not believe vitamin k to be a problem or I would have never included it. I feed this to my own dogs as well.


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## GermanSheperdlover (Nov 15, 2009)

You are no doctor in my book!!.. DOGS DO NOT NEED VITAMIN K and it is a fact that menadione sodium bisulfite complex well and does hurt a dogs liver and other organs.

AAFCO is a joke.

http://www.naturalnews.com/024244_food_pet_food_sodium.html


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## Michelle6 (Feb 12, 2010)

Dr. Tim,just what kind of a doctor are you?? You stated your OPINIONS about Menadione.Let me give you the FACTS: Not all pet food companies add menadione to their foods and dogs have eaten these foods for YEARS without developing deficiencies.The National Research Council WAS NOT able to demonstrate a dietary requirement for VITAMIN K in dogs during a test when NATURAL ingredients were fed,and fishmeal,liver,and green plants(alfalfa,kelp,nettle leaf,blue-green algae)are rich sources of NATURAL vitamin K. These are the SCIENTIFICALLY PROVEN side effects of Menadione: Causes cytotoxicity in liver cells. Considerably WEAKENS the IMMUNE SYSTEM. It has mutagenic effects. Damages the natural vitamin K cycle Causes Hemolatic Anemia not just linked to large doses. Disturbs the levels of Calcium ions (Ca2+) in the body,which is an important factor in fibrinolysis. Builds up in tissues and has been detected in eggs,milk,and meat of animals supplemented with Menadione. Causes irritation of skin and mucous membranes. Causes allergic reactions and eczema. Menadione has NEVER been researched or specifically approved for long term use,such as in pet food.The FDA banned Menadione for human use due to SERIOUS side effects,including permanent liver damage and DEATH. The bottom line is Synthetic vitamin K (Menadione)is a CHEAP source(much cheaper than whole foods)and that is the ONLY reason to opt for it.Any company that uses this ingredient is PROFIT DRIVEN,and doesn't care about our pets health...With the science based information available on this ingredient,there is NO REASON for Menadione to be added other than the fact that it is a big money saver for a pet food company.Dr Tim I DON'T CARE WHAT YOU "THINK" THESE ARE FACTS!!!!!


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## GermanSheperdlover (Nov 15, 2009)

Michelle, I am pretty sure he/they use it in the same way race horse's use it. Which would be to help blood clotting during over pushed athletic events. If you research sled dogs, you won't like what you find. They are treated almost like greyhounds, do you know what I am trying to say?? I really am not trying to start a fight, but one of my old high school buddies got into sled dog racing and we do not talk after I saw and found out what was going on.


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## GermanSheperdlover (Nov 15, 2009)

I forgot to mention, in my area (North Seattle) there are a few groups involved with rescuing and adopting out old sled dogs. I have seen some at dog parks they seem to be really nice dogs. One was running around with a muzzle on, but I guess you have to be careful. I didn't inquire much because Tony is enough for me and I don't think Tony would be very receptive of another dog in the house. The ones I saw were really good looking dogs.


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## dr_tim (Aug 16, 2010)

WEll, one thing I will not fall into is mud slinging, there isn't any need for that, please. I have been a small animal practitioner for 21 years and a strong advocate for the welfare of dogs. We choose to race our dogs to show as an example of how it can be done in a kind and humane way. People can have differences with that and I respect them for it. Good can come from the wary eye of the humane societies in the world to further the cause of different breeds being involved in different things.

AS to menadione, most companies withdrew it for the reason of being constantly attacked for their use of it, not the fact that there was a proven reason it shouldn't be used. I have talked with many in and out of the field about this said ingredient. It is called essential for a reason. The dog can make some of it but not a lot of it, thus the term essential. Some comes from leafy stuff, kelp and veg oils as well that can be converted in the intestine of the dog.

And as to what I think are the facts I haven't seen any real science behind what you are saying, lots of conjecture. And if you read the MSDS on menadione you will see the toxic level is 1000 times what is recommended and is actually added to the food. You can extrapolate any of the added ingredients, any of them to a toxic level and harm an animal. And, reallym there isn't a lot of profit to be made from the addition of menadione to a food so that reasoning doesn't hold water, either.

I appreciate your input, but sometimes people don't see eye to eye. I have an extremely well known nutritionist on board and I am a veterinarian. Don't know what else to show about credentials and we are trying to do the best thing for a dogs'nutrition.


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## Michelle6 (Feb 12, 2010)

Jess I don't buy into the blood clotting excuse.When you cut yourself does your blood clot?? Mine does.BTW so does my dog's and her food DOES NOT contain Menadione.Yeah I have seen pictures of these sled dogs at "home" and they are tied on like 5 foot long chains with really hoopty looking dog houses surrounded by mud....they really don't look like loved family pets to me.I saw this on "Dr. Tim's"website.....


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## Michelle6 (Feb 12, 2010)

Dr. Tim the profit comes from using Menadione INSTEAD of High quality NATURAL ingredients.Synthetic vitamin k is much cheaper.Exactly how much time is actually spent on dog nutrition in vet school?? Let me ask you this, would you personally rather take synthetic vitamins OR get your nutrition from whole foods??? I can tell you this I pick whole foods over synthetic vitamins any day!!! To me the use of Menadione suggests a low grade dog food.


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## GermanSheperdlover (Nov 15, 2009)

Michelle, Being chained up is bad, but it is way worse than that. In the Iditarod, dogs die all the time, for being run to death and it happens in the smaller races quite a bit. Now after these dogs get to about 6-7 years old and they can't pull as much as the other dogs WHAT DO YOU THINK THEY DO WITH THESE DOGS?? Or what do you think happens to the dogs that just don't cut the mustard??? Pretty rotten sport in my book..


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## Antonio1 (Apr 22, 2010)

I don't know much about this dog food I've never heard of it until now. Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't all dog food companies use vitamin supplementation in their feed weather it's vitamin A - K? Dr. Tim's formula didn't look too bad from the link provided but I'm pretty certain it's not available in my area so I'll stick w/ the Brands I'm currently rotating in my dogs diet.


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## Luc (Aug 17, 2010)

I have been using Dr. Tim's Momentum for over two years now and I am extremely happy with the kibble. I have a kennel of approx 20 sled dogs and ALL my dogs love the food plus their coats/ feet etc look great! A clear strength of Dr. Tim's is that there is a scientific reason why every ingredient is actually put into the food, and Dr. Tim always does his best to courteously explain WHY (even to seemingly aggressive bloggers...). In addition, Dr. Tim is clearly very open about suggestions and constantly trying to make the food better!


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## GermanSheperdlover (Nov 15, 2009)

Yes, Antonino,but as stated dogs really have no need for vitamin K and the synthetic version is Menadione Sodium Bisulfate which attacks a dogs liver. As I stated I first heard about this stuff at the horse races when my hard core horse racing buddies told me about it. It's main purpose is for blood clotting and I have no idea why dog food companies think it is necessary. Sled dogs are similar to horse racing in the fact they push these dogs to the extremes of what they can endure. Sometimes to the point of losing the dogs, to satisfy some persons need to be the best at something. I hate the sport almost as much as I hate dog fighting. A lot of people look at dogs much differently than I do. I see them as mans BEST friend and I have a HUGE heart for dogs. Some people just look at dogs as a animal and have no remorse if they lose their life.
Scroll down to the bottom and this lady talks about this crap.


http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=badingredients


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## Antonio1 (Apr 22, 2010)

Jess, 

I looked at the link provided http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=badingredients, and from the opinion of the author it would seem that the use of synthetic vitamins is unwarranted. As stated above, I don't know enough about this particular brand of dog food so I can't make a judgement yet based on 1 controversial ingredient. And I don't have access to others that have personally used the feed so I have no clue as to it's quality or lack of.


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## Antonio1 (Apr 22, 2010)

Dr. Tim, can you email me [email protected], I don't know much about your feed, but I would like input on the feed and it's target breeds.


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## Michelle6 (Feb 12, 2010)

Antonio-what brands do you use?? Right now I use Fromm,Merrick,and Champion.I am looking into a few others.


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## Antonio1 (Apr 22, 2010)

Michelle, 

Currently the brands I used are mostly from Natura/IAMS, the EVO and California Natural Lines, but during the down season I tend to use Pro Plan Sensitive Skin and Stomach ( I know the ingredients in pro plan do not look advertising at all) but honestly it works best for my Dobie during the slower months of the year. I wanted to try Merrick but to get it in my area would cost more than EVO red meat after paying the shipping costs


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## Antonio1 (Apr 22, 2010)

I meant Natura/ P & G in the post above not IAMS, P&G is the actual company that owns Natura Pet Products now days


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## Michelle6 (Feb 12, 2010)

Antonio-Natura was a great company,but now that they have been bought by P&G I really feel that the products will go downhill.Have you ever tried Fromm?? My dogs love it,when you open the bag it smells like cheese,they use real Wisconsin cheddar,my dogs are really excited to get a bowl of Fromm.I don't have any problem getting any brand of dog food in my area...we have excellent Indy pet stores and feed stores.I don't know if your aware of this but Natura is giving out coupons on their website for a free bag 5-6 pounds.I got their Evo fish and it was $20.00(you do have to pay sales tax which was like a dollar something) for that little bag....that stuff was great,too bad they sold out,because I would have totally bought that food.BTW with so many good foods out there I would NEVER use one with Ethoxyquin,BHT, BHA,or Menadione.Did you know that the FDA banned Menadione for human use because it was proven to cause permanent organ damage/failure- Liver,Kidneys,Lungs-and Death....so I feel it is poison to dogs as well and it should be banned in pet food as well...there are organizations that are working on getting it banned.....I just feel it is really pointless to use it when Vitamin K can be had through whole foods.And I don't mind paying the extra money for foods that are safer.I also add extra raw meat and eggs and some fruit-veggies to my dogs kibble...to me kibble has to be like eating dry soup (blah)so I add the fresh extras.....my dogs love carrots,broccoli,green beans,apples,banana.


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## GermanSheperdlover (Nov 15, 2009)

Antonio, you know how I feel about purnia so I well leave it alone. Fromms is a great dog food and Tony loves it. I have been looking hard at First Mate to replace C.N., IN THE FUTURE. Yes I know Potato is No.1 but heck there has to be a lot of meat in it. Besides, my Tony gets extra meat every night, BECAUSE I SPOIL HIM.


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## Antonio1 (Apr 22, 2010)

Michelle- 

I would feel priveledged to eat one of your dogs meals w/ all those extra's , but I think it's good that you do add the different items, the only thing I really supplements is like a fish oil during the colder months. For some reason the Central Heat seems to dry my dog's coat out. And during hard training I've used supplements from a company before but it's mostly for endurance and stamina more than anything else. I've tried some feeds that were decent price they I really liked the ingredients and protein/fat levels but they didn't agree 100% w/ my Dobie (Solid Gold)(TOTW-all formulas)Dick Van Patten) mostly foods manufactured by Diamond Pet Products seem to cause the most rancid smelling gas from my dogs and the occasional liquid stools so I've tried to stay clear of anything manufactured by them lately. I would like to try Merrick and Fromm, but anything that has to be shipped seems to cost more than just getting the large bag of EVO red meat, and as long as the formula doesn't change on it, I'll keep using it as my main staple.


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## Antonio1 (Apr 22, 2010)

Michelle, 

I took a look at Fromm's website, not bad looking stuff, and they actually cater to sensitive tummies as well which is a HUGE plus around my camp. It's some good looking food and they offer a variety in protein sources which is a plus as well.


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## Rob_Farley (Aug 26, 2010)

I have a small kennel of 15 +/- Siberian huskies and have been running them recreationally for years and have been offer tours for several years now. My dogs are hard working and are trained to pull heavy loads. Meeting there caloric needs is critical in their performance and keeping weight on them. It is important for me to find a good product and then to stay with it. In the past I fed good high performance food from a name brand only to have them change the product to a cheeper quality and then raise the price on me. When people have talked about the food they feed, they rave about how well the dogs look, the stool quality and how little they have to feed. I rarely find all these claims to be the case. I have been feeding Momentum for the past three years and I am also the distributor for the food in Vermont. When Dr. Tim talked about changing the food and the manufacturing process, I was skeptical. He said to start feeding less, so I cut back some, and the dogs got fat. I cut back more and the dogs still had adequate weight. I am hardly feeding my 40 to 50lbs dogs and they are chunky. I can't wait to see how they look and how much I need to feed them when they are working. I was feeding different food to retired dogs and dogs with digestive issues. I feed this one food and almost all of these issues have been resolved and all my dogs are looking their best in years. All my dogs have that healthy glow to them, which only comes from feeding good food. Dr. Tim understand the needs of the working dogs and how we feed our sled dogs by supplementing with meat. Other manufactures and their promoters say NO NO to that and all you need is to feed OUR food. It has been very refreshing to have the sensibility of Dr. Tim who understand the working dog's need and has made a product to meet those needs. I hope I will never need to change food again. Keep up the good work Tim.


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## Sven_Haltmann (Sep 14, 2010)

I'm not much of an internet blogger because simply i just rather spend time with my dogs but it seems that in this case i have to add my 5 cents. 

I have been feeding Dr. Tim's Momentum dog food for the past 5 months and i am very pleased with it. We have been living and giving sled dog tours on a glacier (5200ft) all summer long. We lived in a harsh environment with cold, wet and windy weather especially this summer when the weather in southcentral alaska was cold and rainy even in lower elevations. My dogs kept their weight, appetites, attitudes and health for the duration of our stay on the ice. 

- Momentum Dog food soakes very quickly to ensure proper hydration on the trail when feeding as wet snack. 
- It's very pallatable, my dogs love it
- Their attitudes were outstanding, always ready to go
- It supplies enough calories for the hard working dog
- Their coats looks fantastic. My dogs have that "healty" look and smile. 

I haven't tried Momentum dog food on long training runs and races but am looking forward to this year's mushing season and i'm pretty confident that it will perform to my expectations.

I have talked with Dr. Tim on the phone on several occasions and i totally trust his dog food and its formula. I know that the ingredients are choosen to benefit our sled dogs and other working dogs in the best way possible. Try this food yourselves and check out the results instead of talking trash. i"m sure you will be amazed.

For anybody who believes that Dr Tim is not putting his best effort in this food to ensure the overall health of our animals, wake up!! you live in a bubble. I love my dogs and treat them as my kids. I only feed them what i think is best for them and Momentum is that kind of dog food. 

Sven Haltmann, Iditarod Finisher 
Yukon Quest 300 Champion and receiver of Vet's choice award for best dog care

if anybody thinks that we mistreat our dogs, you are welcomed at my kennel 24/7, 365days/year. No appoitment necessary, surprised visits encouraged...!!


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## wrangler1 (Jun 27, 2010)

Dr. Tim's, Red Paw and Annamaet are the 3 best kibbles on the market.

I really hate when a person working in an office somewhere with one or two companion animals talks like a fool about the ingredients in pet food.


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## Matt3 (Sep 27, 2010)

I have a small kennel of huskies, (high percentage Seppala's and alaskans, and a few siberians). I began feeding Dr. Tims about 4 or 5 years ago and the food has only gotten better. I liked the food so much I became a distributor.

I started feeding Pursuit and have now switched to Momentum full time. The first things I notied within about 2 or 3 weeks of feeding the food was the dogs attitude, they where more alert, recovered faster and wanted to run more often, and I could feed less. Since the new manufacturing process I cannot complain; I feed a lot less and the dogs do farther. 

I would recommend this food to everyone, I have friends that have switched food to Dr. Tims and tried someone elses food but they always come back to me.


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## GermanSheperdlover (Nov 15, 2009)

sal, This stuff is A MIDDLE OF THE ROAD KIBBLE AND TO BE HONEST WITH YOU, I WOULD NOT FEED IT. I feed what is the best on the market today, which is Orijen. This is not even in the same league, not even close. Sorry, but that is the truth!!


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## wrangler1 (Jun 27, 2010)

Jess, truth be told, you are a guy with one companion dog and a pet food label reader. No professional dog people feed Orijen because its not worth the money and working dogs cannot be supported by it.

What is your professional background? Science, breeding, medical, competition?

Anything to support your assertion?


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## Robert_Bonwit (Sep 28, 2010)

You all can argue all you want. I have a beautiful Rhodesian Ridgeback. Was having G.I. problems when eating Call of the Wild, Blue Mountain and Evo. After going to the VET, getting the flora in her G.I. system straightened out, I, by the Vets recommendation, Started feeding Orijen about 4 months ago and have NOT had a problem since. She loves it. Only gets a cut, twice a day, and free supply of clean water and she looks, feels, acts great. Maybe somethings have changed. But I know health and non-health. Ive been a Critical Care Nurse for over 20 years. And I also know consistancy. And for Rosey, Orijen has become a kife saver.


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## Robert_Bonwit (Sep 28, 2010)

Sorry about the poor typing and spelling. But you get the point. If you all out there know a better, consistant quality dog food/foods that work better, support my dogs energy and health please let me know. Yes, Origen is expensive but it does work and appears to be a good food. My dogs proof. She runs around on 20 acres and is very happy. If you know of something better and less expensive, let me know. Im open to any rational, objective information, but ignore emotional, name calling back and forth garbage. I appreciate the help.


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## GermanSheperdlover (Nov 15, 2009)

YES sal I am a label reader, is that wrong to you? And Most smart people do read whats in a product THEY or their dogs eat. If you wanna feed a medium grade dog food, go for it. I can actually say I do more research on dog food than anyone you know. Here is one of you dog foods, whats good about it? NO REAL MEAT, TONS OF GRAIN, Brewers Dried Yeast, 2 TYPES OF BEET FILLERS, Salt AND Citric Acid. You like this?? Pleeeese.....Look I am not here to argue with you or anyone else I am here to help educate people about dog food...

Chicken Meal, Brown Rice, Rolled Oats, Pearled Barley, Chicken Fat (Preserved with Natural Mixed Tocopherols (Vitamin E)), Dried Beet Pulp, Catfish Meal, Brewers Dried Yeast, Flax Seed Meal, Carrot, Celery, Beet, Parsley, Lettuce, Watercress, Spinach, Lecithin, Salt, Calcium Carbonate, DL Methionine, L-Lysine, Potassium Chloride, Ascorbic Acid, Propionic Acid, Vitamin E Supplement, Biotin, Niacin Supplement, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Vitamin A Acetate, Riboflavin Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Thiamine Mononitrate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Citric Acid, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Folic Acid, Potassium Chloride, Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Sulfate, Zinc Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Zinc Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Manganese Sulfate, Manganese Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Manganous Oxide, Sodium Selenite, Calcium Iodate.


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## wrangler1 (Jun 27, 2010)

Jess,

Why did you remove my questions asking about your professional qualifications "to help educate people about dog food"

I believe it is a fair question.


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## GermanSheperdlover (Nov 15, 2009)

I can't remove anything, I am not an administrator or a moderator or affiliated in any way!!! And on this board I have given ""WHY I DO WHAT I DO"" many times. I have posted many times how much research I do in reguards to dog food. Instead of criticizing me, maybe you should look and find out WHY I do what I do. Annd I have just proven why I am waaay more qualified than you, match those foods you like to the ones I like and tell me WHY it makes it better!!!. So if you want to attack me go for it....OH by the way, have I ever said I am a professional in any way??? No I have not so please don't put words in my mouth.

The A list
1.	Orijen
2.	Acana, Harvest, pacifica & grassland Only.
3.	Blue Wilderness
4.	Wellness Core
5.	Horizon Legacy
6.	Taste of the Wild, wetlands & prairie, ONLY.
7.	GO, grain free Only.
8.	Acana, the rest of Acana products.
9.	Fromm, 
10.	Merrick, before grain Only.
11.	Evo
12.	Artemis

The B list
1. Now, Grain free. 
2. GO, free Endurance, chicken, salmon ,Only
3. Merrick
4. Evangers
5. Timberwolf
5. Instinct
6. Wellness
7. Solid Gold
8. Precise Holistic Complete, ONLY
9. Canidae, Grain Free ALS, ONLY
10. Natures Logic
11. First Mate
12. Kirkland, Costco
12. California Natural


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## GermanSheperdlover (Nov 15, 2009)

Lets look at what you feed and what I feed well start with yours.

A study at Purdue University came to the conclusion that Chicken fat in the first 5 ingredients MAY/CAN lead to bloat in some dogs. There is no whole meat of any kind. Beet plup is a filler and contains ZERO nutrients and is only there to keep the stools firm. Canola oil is a very low grade of oil. Salt has no business in a dog food. Menadione dimethylpyrimidinol bisulfite has no business being in a dog food and can lead to liver issues. 2 type of meat product to 7+ grains or such....

Chicken meal, rice flour, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), herring meal, beet pulp, dried egg product, flaxseed meal, oat flour, canola oil, natural flavor, salmon oil, dried chicory root, salt, potassium chloride, yucca shidigera extract, vitamins (niacin supplement, vitamin E supplement, d-calcium pantothenate, vitamin A supplement, biotin, riboflavin supplement, menadione dimethylpyrimidinol bisulfite (source of vitamin K activity)), dried Enterococcus faecium fermentation product, dried Saccharomyces cerevisiae fermentation product, dried Lactobacillus acidophilus fermentation product, kelp meal, psyllium seed husks, L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate, trace minerals (iron sulfate, zinc oxide, manganous oxide, copper sulfate, cobalt carbonate, sodium selenite, ethylenediaminedihydiodide), chelated trace minerals (zinc amino acid chelate, manganese amino acid chelate, copper amino acid chelate), L-carnitine, rosemary extract. 

Now what I like and feed. The first 3 ingredients are named meat with a total of 12. 7 are whole meats. The only negative would be sun-cured alfalfa and is it bad, NO. Now, what I really like and your product did not put it up easy enough to find is,,,Glucosamine (min.)	1400 mg/kg
Chondroitin (min.) 1200 mg/kg AND HAVING A LARGE ACTIVE BREED IT IS IMPORTANT TO HAVE A LOT OF Glucosamine..

Fresh deboned chicken, chicken meal, turkey meal, russet potato, fresh deboned salmon (a natural source of DHA and EPA), herring meal, sweet potato, peas, fresh deboned lake whitefish, fresh deboned walleye, chicken fat (naturally preserved with vitamin E and citric acid), chicken liver, salmon meal, fresh deboned turkey, fresh whole eggs, fresh deboned herring, sun-cured alfalfa, salmon oil, chicory root, dehydrated organic kelp, pumpkin, carrots, spinach, turnip greens, apples, cranberries, saskatoon berries, black currants, choline chloride, psyllium, licorice root, angelica root, fenugreek, marigold flowers, sweet fennel, peppermint leaf, chamomile flowers, dandelion, summer savory, rosemary, sea salt, vitamin supplements (vitamin A, vitamin D3, vitamin E, niacin, vitamin C, thiamine mononitrate, riboflavin, vitamin B5, vitamin B6, folic acid, biotin, vitamin B12), mineral supplements (zinc proteinate, iron proteinate, manganese proteinate, copper proteinate, selenium), dried Lactobacillus acidophilus product, dried Enterococcus faecium fermentation product.


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## GermanSheperdlover (Nov 15, 2009)

Here are some pictures of my dog, lets see some of yours!!!!....

http://3toestony.shutterfly.com/


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## wrangler1 (Jun 27, 2010)

Jess,

So the answer is you have no credentials or formal education in animal science. Is that correct? You have absolutely no training or professional experience as a canine nutritionist. Is that correct? How is it then that you can ethically give people advise if you have no professional background is this subject. The people above responding about Dr. Tim's are professionals. Do you feel you know more.

In one of your posts you cut and pasted Annamaet Encore. That food was developed as a food for companion animals by one of the most respected and published nutritionists in the country, with strong ties to Penn & Cornell. He is also a champion sled dog racer and Vice-Chairman of ISDRA, a global canine organization.

I have a hard time taking you seriously and wouldn't even bother with this if you didn't hold yourself out as one that educates others. Your opinions are yours, however.


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## Michelle6 (Feb 12, 2010)

Hey Jess-I wouldn't even bother arguing with this sal person,he is a real jerk...his mind is like a closed book-what a troll-go away sal...and take your crappie dog food with you.


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## GermanSheperdlover (Nov 15, 2009)

To bad trolls like this have to start trouble. Notice how he dodged the post I made. And would Dr Tim or one of you please tell me ""JUST WHAT"" MAKES THIS DOG FOOD SOOOOO SPECIAL. Nothing that's what! When people say how great a certain dog food how come they can never say "what" makes it so great. Not just with this food but many others.

http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food-reviews/dr-tims-dog-food/

I don't like this site, but they aren't real found of this ether.

Chicken fat is number 3 on the ingredient list and we all know about the study done at Purdue University... I just can't find anything in this product that would make it so special. Rice flour? UGG, a low quality GRAIN. Beet pulp, ug a filler with ZERO nutrient value. Maybe it's the dried Saccharomyces cerevisiae fermentation product, which is designed for COWS. Maybe the psyllium seed husk which is just a fiber to keep the poo firm. Maybe it's cobalt carbonate which is a toxic chemical, but very pretty. I can't figure it out!!


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cobalt%28II%29_carbonate

Chicken meal, rice flour, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), herring meal, beet pulp, dried egg product, flaxseed meal, oat flour, canola oil, natural flavor, salmon oil, dried chicory root, salt, potassium chloride, yucca shidigera extract, vitamins (niacin supplement, vitamin E supplement, d-calcium pantothenate, vitamin A supplement, biotin, riboflavin supplement, menadione dimethylpyrimidinol bisulfite (source of vitamin K activity)), dried Enterococcus faecium fermentation product, dried Saccharomyces cerevisiae fermentation product, dried Lactobacillus acidophilus fermentation product, kelp meal, psyllium seed husks, L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate, trace minerals (iron sulfate, zinc oxide, manganous oxide, copper sulfate, cobalt carbonate, sodium selenite, ethylenediaminedihydiodide), chelated trace minerals (zinc amino acid chelate, manganese amino acid chelate, copper amino acid chelate), L-carnitine, rosemary extract.


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## Michelle6 (Feb 12, 2010)

Jess lol way to go!!! pointing out all of the bad crap in this food...I have one thing to add,the SYNTHETIC vitamin K is ALOT higher on this list than most of the other brands of low grade dog food that I have seen...thanks for pointing out the pretty, TOXIC,cobalt carbonate that is in this food also....I missed that one!!! Maybe they will shut up about this "food" now....but I doubt it.But hey we all know that sled dogs are far from loved family pets so maybe they don't care about all the toxic crap they put into them.


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## Kat2 (Nov 4, 2010)

I have taken my pets to Dr. Tim for a number of years. He is one of the best vets I have ever been to. He is truly compassionate, intelligent and excellent with animals. I think all the claims above need to be looked at, but I don't believe all the stuff I read on the web. Consider the source of the information, how the study was conducted and if the person posting the study has an agenda and credentials. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I believe Dr Tim has done his research, has the experience and qualifications to come out with a great product and it is worth a try.


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## Michelle6 (Feb 12, 2010)

Kat-Dr.Tim may be an excellent vet,but-I really don't see anything special about this food,their is major room for improvement....Don't forget the fact that their are a lot of vets out there that will tell you to feed Science Diet,or some other low grade crap also.....If you go to the top of this page,you can read the administrator's review of Dr.Tim's food...btw he is NOT impressed by the use of synthetic vitamin K either.


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## Seeker (Nov 6, 2010)

Michelle i dont think Tim's food is the issue really it looks like it runs deeper, the whole way of feeding,keeping,doing sled dogs is what bothers you, its easy for a pet owner to tell others how to care for dogs how big chains they will be kept on but doing it is a whole diff game, i myself prefer to kept them in as confined space i can without hurting them as that will assure me of them resting proper, sure it looks nice to have them all in a huge yard runnign loose but depending on what kind of dogs you have it will hurt them more then doing good. Ive had them loose in a big space and every time i see them they running looking like they having a blast but as soon i bring one inside with me away from the others u could see the exastion on the dog, almost every single one would drop down on the floor within a min sleeping like hibernation bears. Bottom line is you cannot trick a dog into beeing better then he is, a dog will preform just as the food and care he is gettin, good care good food = good dogs


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## Seeker (Nov 6, 2010)

Jess i dont know about his food (dont feed it) but there have to be something real good about it to have Egil Ellis win as much as he do with his dogs eating it, you dont get world class athletes on bad toxic food, no matter how the dogs are bred just as u wont see no Lance Armstrong on bad toxic food.


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## GermanSheperdlover (Nov 15, 2009)

I guess if you took out the posion menadione dimethylpyrimidinol bisulfite, I could list it as a 3 star dog food, out of 6 stars. Just because Egil Ellis feeds it means nothing to me. WHY? Because sled dog people really do not have the intense love that I do for their dogs. I have an old buddy who is into sled dog racing and he is a total moron when it comes to food. And as I have said before, as soon as these dogs can not pull any more they are put down. So are you gonna try and tell me these people know whats best for dogs in the long run. He)) no they don't, they only care about these dogs as long as they can perform.


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## Serendipity (Aug 13, 2010)

Jess, I agree with you about this food and I would not feed it either, but I don't think generalizing is the way to go.


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## Seeker (Nov 6, 2010)

Well to you maybe it dont mean nothing but the fact is the dogs preform on it, and i think you know that for a body to be able push it to the limit, forther then others it have to be sett up with good nutriens. There's a difference in respecting a dog and what most pet owners call love, which in reality is humanising a dog. Respecting a dog is to fullfill it's animalistic needs, and that is to make the dog part of something and giving him/her a feeling of selfworth. Love them as most people do in reality only means lots and lots of limits and learned human behaviour, you love it so much that you will put limits on it physical levels some as you will draw limits on it mental,becose you want eliminate even the tought of the dog getting hurt, and leave it to live in a grey area never getting the satisfaction of rest after hard work, never giving it satisfaction of that real tasty and needed meal. Never let its body get intune with nature and grow a thick fur for cold winters and shed it for hot summers. Humans live in the past and future, i have yet to meet one who live in the moment all the time, dogs on other hand live only in the moment, time to them is of no use, so when people say they love them as intense as other human beigs in reality they are in 2 diff space's of times very far from being intune, when you go out to condition the animal you are more intune then doing anything other as you will have 2-3-5-10 or how ever many hours u spend working the dog in compleat focus on how the dog perform, act and look he will react on you and you will react on him both being focused on what is happening right then and there.

Fair share of people try to find homes for them after the retired due to space and what ever, but nature did not intent every single dog to survive it have its own ways of culling and removing the weak genes to be passed, in this way it will keep a balance. Yes you are right most care of dogs only who can perform, so do nature if they to weak, to slow to sick to hunt they die thats the way of nature to eliminate bad genes, deseases weakness, its called Life, im sure you have come across fair share of people just wanting to take take take and how many of the are still in your life taking taking taking? Life at it's best is when you give and take.


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## GermanSheperdlover (Nov 15, 2009)

Go back to school and learn some grammar, just how many grades did you pass. It really tells me how much a person knows when they post like a 1st grader. I couldn't even read what your rambling was all about.. Your 1st sentence was as ignorant as it comes "Well to you maybe it dont mean nothing" nice,,, two 1st grade mistakes in 8 words. That was enough for me. NOW I REALIZE WHAT KIND OF PEOPLE FEED THIS!!


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## Michelle6 (Feb 12, 2010)

Jess-LOL,how many grades did you pass??? LOL.I'm STILL LAUGHING!!!!


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## GermanSheperdlover (Nov 15, 2009)

Good god, did this clown even get through 3rd grade. Seeker, no one but a fool would listen to what your saying. My 2nd grade grand son, can but a English sentence together better than you can.. So that tells anyone with half a brain that you have no way of processing information. I really could care less where your from, GO AWAY!!!

Michelle, LOL, it really is sad, when someone comes here and tries to act like a dog food wiz, but his sentence structure looks like a 1st grader.


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## GermanSheperdlover (Nov 15, 2009)

Do you have any idea what education I have? No, you don't! Do you know what I do for a living? No, you don't. GO AWAY!! You are one of the least knowledgeable people that has ever posted here. If you like this food and think it is the best food for your dog, fine feed it to them. But it doesn't even make my top 50... And is not rated a very good food on any site anywhere. Annnd I put dog sledders in the same leagues as I do those who have dogs fight. Just to give you a little bit about what I know about them, is I am involved in a dog sled rescue organization here in Seattle. So now you know one little thing I do for dogs and just a tiny bit of how I get my information. You now nothing...

Your a total idiot to make a this statement..

""""menadione dimethylpyrimidinol bisulfite witch you don’t know nothing about.

So why did you even bother posting in the first place since you have no knowledge about it what so ever."""

Dogs do not even need Vitamin K and do just fine with out it. It is used moron, for the control of bleeding in the same manner as used in horse racing. You don't think that I don't know about dogs??? You had better rethink that!!! And here is a statement made on a great site... 


Menadione Sodium Bisulfate
Vitamin K3, synthetic vitamin K.

Feed grade. Also listed as Menadione Dimethyl-Pyrimidinol Bisulfate, Menadione Dimethyl-Pyrimidinol Bisulfite, Menadione Sodium Bisulfate Complex, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite and Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex.

""Unnecessary ingredient"" in dog food. This synthetic version of vitamin K has not been specifically approved for long term use, such as in pet food. ""It has been linked to many serious health issues."" More Details

http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=menadione


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## Symphonic (Nov 15, 2010)

I couldn't care less about your spelling, but I do care about your dogs insofar as you only seem to care about them if they perform to your standards, which bothers me. Those of us who LOVE our dogs - unapologetically, as dogs, but also as the sentient beings who share our homes and lives - want them to stay healthy throughout all their years. They can be sick, old, or weak and we still want them. We have an innate desire to fix their ills and make them comfortable. This has nothing to do with coddling laziness, which is obviously contrary to their quality of life. It has everything to do with loyalty, which I personally see as a two-way street. I don't see why why I should be persuaded to feed any given brand by someone who views their dogs as dispensable.


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## GermanSheperdlover (Nov 15, 2009)

No more, I am done with you and your ignorance....


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## GermanSheperdlover (Nov 15, 2009)

ps. I am not to involved I just do something I am sure you don't do, I help out and I am sure I do another thing you don't do and that is I give them money and other org. money and dog food. Which is something I would never do for you or the country you come from. And if you had half a brain, you would realize how sharp the German people were. I suppose you never figured out her education, because most likely you read only what you want to read. I am done with you, you have proved that you belong with the abady group, because you have no clue how to process information.


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## Michelle6 (Feb 12, 2010)

Seeker-I read your comment where you called Jess an animal lover and a people hater.(It has been deleted by the administrator)Anyway whats wrong with that???? Dogs will protect you until the last beat of their heart.They are loyal,trustworthy,and beautiful creatures.I have never met a dog I didn't like.I can't say the same for people!!!


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## GermanSheperdlover (Nov 15, 2009)

Michelle, I well never respond to this guy directly ever again. His comment about Sabine Contreras the owner and author of The Dog Food Project, really told me everything I needed to know about him. She is as good as it gets when it comes to dog food(Oh,I am a male)and her education is unsurpassed and does not play favorites to any dog food company. Which makes her so reliable. I have asked numerous times why Tim thinks this food is so much better and what the ingredients that make it so superior to other dog foods, ones like, Orijen, Acana, Fromm, Merrick, Horizon Legacy and others and have never gotten any answer. Why? because it isn't and it is a short term dog food, made to fulfill the short term needs of these kinds of people....I well stop here because I have seen what the results are "FIRST" hand.

http://www.betterdogcare.com/?page=about


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## Michelle6 (Feb 12, 2010)

Jess-what's up with everyone always thinking that you are a lady??? LOL.Every person that actually knows what they are talking about knows that Menadione has no place in good dog food.Seeker just wants to argue,he would never admit that he is wrong,but we all know the truth.The funny thing is-he doesn't even use Dr. Tim's....I don't care what he feeds-he is a TOTAL JERK,just like most people!!!


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## dr_tim (Aug 16, 2010)

Well, judging by the tone of these last messages I am not sure whether posting on here is a great idea but what the heck. 

Our foods are made with the highest grade protein meal products sourced in North America. we use a slow cook process to make the kibble to allow for minimal damage to the product and a very high digestability. And we use a high level of omega 3 fatty acids. That is what makes it sooooooooo much better than the rest out there.

When you read a label so it is accurate in comparing things, you must look at whether it is a dry food label or wet food label. A nice trick with using meat in foods is that it will list first because it is 70% water when it goes into the extruder. Then the meat loses nearly that same amount of weight and when dry can often drop down the list of ingredients a large number of spots.When meal is listed on a label and meat, I bet almost all foods will truly have the meal being the number one ingredient once the kibble is made. So compare apples to apples.

As to our food and vitamin K we did decide to remove the vitamin k several months ago and continue only with the kelp meal as our source of vitamin K. Call it what you will, but the opinions of folks out in the world were listened to, judged and acted on. I still personally believe the vitamin K conflict is unfounded.

Last bit of advice, unasked for, is just to be civil on your posts. It is easy to be a tough guy or gal when you are behind a keyboard and not face to face. I am not going to get into a boxing match with anyone on this, just reasonable discussions.


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## GermanSheperdlover (Nov 15, 2009)

Then you would not mind answering Michelle's question, which you have nicely dodged. Which is, what kind of a doctor are you ? and of course you would not mind leaving a link to prove this!! It's interesting you would think people like myself and Michelle DO NOT REALIZE that whole meats "do" move down the ingredient list. Yes, low grade cheap dog foods might lose 70%, but HIGH quality foods like Champion, Fromm, Horizon Legacy, Merrick etc. most liky lose 40-50% of their mass and in Champions case I doubt even that much. Losing Menadione Sodium Bisulfate is a great step in the right direction, now if you could add some more meat you might get me to add your product to one of my lists, along with some positive comments.

Oh believe me when I say I am unafraid of anyone. US Army s.f. 1970-1975!

http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=meat-meal


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## Michelle6 (Feb 12, 2010)

Dr.Tim-Thanks for the info on meat and meat meal,but I did already know that.I think that removing Menadione is a HUGE step in the right direction,and I would like to applaud you for that! Hopefully I come across as being civil,it is not my intention to alienate people by being rude.The reason I post here is to help dogs,by helping their people.


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## dr_tim (Aug 16, 2010)

Hey Dr Jess;

I didn't realize someone asked what kind of doctor I was and I apologize for missing that. Graduated from Michigan Stat University College of Veterinary Medicine in 1989 and have been practicing small animal medicine since then in Michigan. Have a private practice in Marquette, Michigan that I started from scratch and is very busy. Attend continuing education every year in different areas of veterinary medicine and greatly enjoy being an animal doctor. Have met many interesting people and treated many animals. I have been working in vet hospitals since I was 14 years old and am now 45. You can google me if you wish and learn more.

Anytime you put a fresh meat product through an oven at 190 degrees or better you are going to cause evaporation, that is why the bag lists how much moisture in there, usually no more than 10%. You do the math and you can see what is left when you add fresh meat to a formula that will become a kibble in the end. I am not being insulting here, I am just trying to educate folks that might not have the understanding that you have. I like to learn all the time. If one wants to really gain the benefits of meat, use it fresh. I have done a raw based diet for better than 15 years now with my dogs.

There are many good foods out there besides ours and I am glad some companies are moving forward with their approaches to nutrition. Some aren't so hot, either. We are trying to make a differance and I see it pretty quickly when a dog changes onto our food.


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## wrangler1 (Jun 27, 2010)

I am glad the good Dr. did post because there are two people on this forum that try to sell themselves as experts but have no training or experience to back it up.

Jess seems to think that the "fresh" meat used in Orijen defies natural law and only loses 50% of its mass. Well Jess you are completely wrong again.

I wish whoever owns this site would ban both you and Michelle from posting on every brand like you have done testing on it.

As for Dr. Tim's, that is one kibble I would use if it was sold by me. I am lucky to get another great food made by Ohio Pet Foods for the company that I am sure Dr. Tim knows and respects.


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## Michelle6 (Feb 12, 2010)

Sam-Opinions are like assholes-everybody's got one!!!! Maybe you should be banned from this site,for being so stupid!!! What makes you think that anyone cares about your opinion??? Dr. Tim seems like a decent person-I don't think he needs an idiot like you to defend him.BTW have YOU done testing on your AWESOME,NAMELESS,food??? Just what makes YOU such an expert??


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## GermanSheperdlover (Nov 15, 2009)

Michelle, they can say what they want. BUT THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING IN THIS FOOD THAT MAKES ANY BETTER THAN ANY OTHER AVERAGE DOG FOOD ON THE MARKET. I asked the question and of course all the clowns dodge the it.

I used Yahoo and nothing came up on this guy. But even if he was a vet, so what?? Do you think that would impress me?? How MANY VETS DO YOU KNOW THAT RECOMMEND SCIENCE DIET? sam with a little s, most likely is another musher who uses this food then deposes of his animals just like the group that race or fight dogs. People like this can have their opinion's because that all it is, an opinion. Have you ever seen sam or others leave a link to all this so much testing and other BS they say. Purnia, Beneful, Old roy and Pedigree say they do all this fantastic scientific testing. Do you believe them??

Orijen is the only company who test on their own personal dogs. And yes sam, with the little s, I believe the meat is 70% in their food. And since you said ""Jess seems to think that the “fresh” meat used in Orijen defies natural law and only loses 50% of its mass. Well Jess you are completely wrong again."" PROVE I AM WRONG, BECAUSE IT CAN BE AS LOW AS 30%... Leaving links to this kinda of person never is enough.


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## GermanSheperdlover (Nov 15, 2009)

Ya know Michelle, I wonder why all these people who attack us, never leave links to their dogs. I also wonder why they don't use grvatars?? t But hat's easy one, it's so they can post under many different names.


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## Michelle6 (Feb 12, 2010)

Jess- yeah you are right.I agree,people that use a gravatar are more legit because you always know when it is them.And they can post under many different names without one.Not to be rude but when someone posts wanting to know scientific proof and testing methods,I always think that it is Antonio.lol


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## GermanSheperdlover (Nov 15, 2009)

I laughed out loud on that one. Poor Antonio, what did he do?? Got to admit that was pretty funny.


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## Antonio1 (Apr 22, 2010)

LOL, nah not me, I only post as myself, I find it too be childish that anyone would be afraid to have a opinion on what they feel/know about a subject and not be man/woman enough to sign in and just be themselves. Michelle, the main reason I value ACTUAL field testing is b/c my dog doesn't live the day to day couch potato lifestyle year round, I live in a somewhat still relatively rural state (Arkansas), so my dog is fortunate enough to join me during the year when I'm scouting deer, hogs, etc.. and my dog also begin Schutzhund training about 9mths ago. If you ever give your dog the opportunity to compete in Schutzhund or some form of tracking/high endurance sport, you'll understand why I really like companies that do REAL field trial testing on working breeds, it saves me the trouble of having to buy some ridicoulsy priced food that turns out doesn't supply the fuel I need for my dog during certain months out of the year. I know people have their opinion about what makes a food important to them (I have my own) & scientific and REAL testing is just one of the peices of criteria that I really critic with a watchful eye, b/c it's something that's really important for me and my dog. I think having a good ingredient list good, but if the ingredients haven't been tested for the specifics I listed above then the food can prove pointless for my specific needs.


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## dr_tim (Aug 16, 2010)

I guess I just don't understand the need for this tone when someone disagrees with you. Sure sounds like today's political rhetoric and that is why people just don't want to work together these days; it gets personal. You aren't going to draw me into childish give and take. You want to do that, email me at [email protected] A public forum on the internet is not the place.

As I have tried to explain before, and will one last time do here, ther reasons why this food is better than anything on the market is this;

highest grade protein meals sourced i North America are used.

Blend of proteins to afford all the necessary amino acids plus more for the active dog to maintain muscle, build muscle and keep the dog lean.

Highest grade vitamin premix I could find

Slow cook process to allow for a 95% digestability of the starches while most companies are happy with 80%.

Prebiotics (we started using them before Iams) and externally applied probiotics.

High fat as that is what is truly needed to fuel a dog, not starches.

No corn or soy used.

Formulas are based on very highly active dogs and extrapolated into other formulas that are not so highly active.

Small batches produced on a monthly basis.

Try the food as compared to others and you decide. If you want meat in a diet, add it fresh, otherwise I really question whether there is a cost/benefit to its inclusion.

And Yahoo is a very poor search engine.


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## GermanSheperdlover (Nov 15, 2009)

Sorry, but I still see nothing you have said or PROVEN to make it anything more than an average dog food, but with the removal of menadione dimethylpyrimidinol bisulfite, it should be on my list. I believe most of these foods are better and the ones on my A list, being WAY WAY WAY BETTER. I do find it odd your post dated,, August 16, 2010,, you were arguing for the use of menadione d. b. and in another post you used the excuse of others dropping it because of public pressure. My attitude is why should their have to be public pressure for you to drop a terrible ingredient. But it is great you saw the light and GOT RID OF IT.


The A list
1.	Orijen
2.	Acana, Harvest, pacifica & grassland Only.
3.	Horizon Legacy
4.	Taste of the Wild, wetlands & prairie, ONLY.
5.	GO, grain free /Endurance Only.
6.	Fromm, 4 star.
7.	Merrick, grain free
8.	Wellness Core
9.	Blue Wilderness
10.	Acana, the rest of Acana products.
11.	Artemis
The B list
1.	GO, the rest of their products.
2.	The rest of Merrick
2. Evangers
3. Timberwolf
4. Fromm, the rest of their products.
5. Instinct
6. Wellness super 5 mix
7. Now, Grain free. 
8. Solid Gold
9. Precise Holistic Complete, Only.
10. Natures Logic
11. First Mate
12. Kirkland or Natural Domain, Costco!
13. Now, the rest of their products.
The C list
1.	Nutrisource
2.	Chicken soup for the dog lovers soul
3.	Exclusive
4.	Pure Vita
5.	Canidae, Grain Free ALS, Only.
6.	Wellness 
7.	Earthborn
8.	Pinnacle
9.	Annamaet
10.	Organix
11.	Natural Balance, not all are good!
12.	Whole Earth farms, this well move up!
13.	Premium Edge
14. May be Dr Timm's


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## GermanSheperdlover (Nov 15, 2009)

One other issue you have is the Purdue U. study regarding chicken fat in the 1st 5 ingredients. That study said it could lead to bloat in some dogs. To be honest, I find that study to be very questionable because I know what bloat is. And I believe with the right waiting period after feeding (a full hour+) there is no possible way of an issue, unless you own great dane's.


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## dr_tim (Aug 16, 2010)

Valid questions, Jess. We dropped the Vitamin K due to the pressure, not because I think it is a bad ingredient. We just bumped up the kelp meal to account for more vitamin k in the diet.

As to chicken fat leading to bloat, I truly think bloat has a lot more to do with carbohydrates than anything else in a diet. As a practicing vet I have seen many more cases of bloat that when I lavaged their stomachs we got out pasta and noodles. Far more that kind of bounty in their stomachs than anything else.

If I had my druthers I would grind up moose and put it in a can for dogs and grind up mice and put it in a can for cats. The whole critters. But that just won't fly.

Yes, their are some very good foods on the market. I hope they stay that way as they grow and get bought out, etc.


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## KC23 (Nov 17, 2010)

Glad that Jess & Dr. Tim stated some info and opinions re: bloat. Someone that works w/my husband just spent $1000 at the vet for surgery because their Great Dane had bloat. She said they used to feed Chicken Soup, but they are now feeding Canidae--which I noticed has chicken fat. They said they don't wet the food, but I guess they do mix in canned food. Hmmmm. If anyone has any recommendations and/or advice that I can pass along to her, please fill me in with what you know. Thanks.


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## GermanSheperdlover (Nov 15, 2009)

In a "quick simple term" bloat is the stomach wrapping around itself. Kinda like when you were in Jr High and in P.E. and you took the towel wrapped it up and snapped the other guy in butt. Yes, their is more to it, but that is as simple as it can be put. I am a big believer in waiting after eating to do any kind of exercise with your dog. Can you get a picture in your mind about having the extra bulk in that towel?? Ya Ya my dog gets pretty playful after eating also, but I just make him wait. 

http://images.search.yahoo.com/search/images?_adv_prop=image&fr=moz35&va=bloat+dogs&sz=all


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## Antonio1 (Apr 22, 2010)

I'm not the expert on bloat for sure, but I think at this point Medically we really don't have any experts on the issue. But I apply (Nature's) method to my feeding ideology. Wolves, wild dogs, etc run (exercise to chase down their prey) and immediately begin eating, but what you will generally notice is that immediately following the meal they will lay down and rest. So I typically don't have any restrictions on when I feed my dog, even if he has just finished working 15mins prior to meal time I still allow him to eat, but the rule of thumb I take into account is typically after the meal, I try to make sure I keep him relaxed.


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## KC23 (Nov 17, 2010)

Ok--thanks for the info. Going to relay the messages and print out some info for this person.

I have also encountered a person today who had a sick dog recently--the vet wanted to do surgery (and told her that without surgery, her dog would have to be put to sleep), but she got a 2nd opinion and the next vet recommended Science Diet Sensitive Stomach formula. She said the dog is doing much better, but I told her I would help her find a better food. She was glad as she's paying $35 for 15 lbs. Does anybody recommend/have experience w/a good sensitive stomach brand? She's kinda young and needs an affordable brand. Thanks.


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## KC23 (Nov 17, 2010)

In addition to what I wrote above, look at how bad the poor girl I mentioned is getting ripped off on that Science Diet Sensitive Stomach formula:

Ingredients
Brewers Rice, Whole Grain Corn, Corn Gluten Meal, Chicken By-Product Meal, Dried Egg Product, Animal Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), Chicken Liver Flavor, Flaxseed, Soybean Oil, Oat Fiber, Dried Beet Pulp, Potassium Chloride, Dicalcium Phosphate, Iodized Salt, L-Lysine, Calcium Carbonate, Choline Chloride, Vitamin E Supplement, vitamins (L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin A Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin, Folic Acid, Vitamin D3 Supplement), L-Tryptophan, minerals (Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite), preserved with mixed Tocopherols and Citric Acid, Phosphoric Acid, Beta-Carotene, Rosemary Extract.


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## GermanSheperdlover (Nov 15, 2009)

I really am not much help here, I guess 1st mate would be a good guess. It has limited ingredients and something could be upsetting her stomach. But with all the crap in S.D. it kinda blows my mind. Maybe the chicken and blueberries, I have no idea if the blueberries would bother her stomach or not. It really is a simple food and way better than S.D.


http://www.firstmate.com/dog_food.aspx?guid=88E-C24606A2CF4B


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## GermanSheperdlover (Nov 15, 2009)

On second thought I think she should stay on the the dog food the vet recommended, at least for awhile. I say this because the 1st vet recommended surgery. I am concerned if I recommend something and something happened to the dog, I would feel awful. I am not a vet, just someone who knows about the good and bad ingredients of dog food. So she needs to stay on what the vet recommends for a period of time. This sounds pretty serious and way beyond me!!


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## GermanSheperdlover (Nov 15, 2009)

Oh by the way Tim, I'll take a case of the ground up moooose!!!


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## KC23 (Nov 17, 2010)

Ok, well thanks. I don't know this person very well (she works at dental office), but we just got talking about our dogs today. I also talked to her over a month ago and she told me about this whole ordeal then. She says the dog is doing ok now. She said it does have allergies too, but she doesn't know what it's allergic to. I don't think she was feeding it a quality food prior to Science Diet either..so maybe that's the problem, especially w/all the corn and other junk.


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## Michelle6 (Feb 12, 2010)

For anyone looking for a cost efficient canned dog food, this is Whole Earths Farms by Merrick ingredient list-a dollar a can,and grain free.Ingredients: Chicken, chicken broth, chicken liver, duck, buffalo, whitefish, fresh carrots, fresh sweet potato, peas, salmon meal (a natural source of omega-3 DHA-docosahexaenoic acid), organic alfalfa suncured ground, dried egg, organic sunflower seed ground, dried tomato pomace, canola oil, cassia gum, carrageenan, guargum, salt, potassium chloride, dicalcium phosphate, dried bluberry, dried cranberry, calcium carbonate, choline chloride, poultry seasoning (thyme, sage, rosemary), Yucca schidigera extract, marigold pot, cinnamon, lecithin, zinc amino acid complex, mixed tocopherols, iron amino acid complex, vitamin E supplement, manganese amino acid complex, vitamin B12 supplement, vitamin A acetate, copper amino acid complex, d-calcium pantothenate, vitamin D3 supplement, niacin, riboflavin supplement, biotin, ethylenediamine dihydriodide, pyridoxine hydrochloride, folic acid, thiamine mononitrate, sodium selenite


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## GermanSheperdlover (Nov 15, 2009)

Michelle, we have heard you. But the problem with the product you like, is that it is not sold at very many places. I live just a little north of Seattle and you can "not" find it here and as a matter of fact it is hard finding any Merrick product here. It's kind of a bummer because I went to 6 different pet stores and none carry it. They all said the same thing "It doesn't sell very good"...Keep in mind Seattle is very yuppie/liberal and gayish and the people here are really into their dogs. Believe me their are tons and tons of pet stores here and I have had no luck with finding Whole Earth Farms.


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## GermanSheperdlover (Nov 15, 2009)

Oh I forgot to mention, those 6 all carried Merrick products. One store that is like a 5 store mini chain, but they are a great store, told me they are dropping all of Merrick products because they don't sell.


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## Michelle6 (Feb 12, 2010)

Hey Jess-It is in all the stores where I live.It must sell pretty well because when I buy it the sell by date is usually 12 months away.They sell it in feed stores too.I can't get First Mate,Acana,Nature's Domain,or Pelican Bay.And Orijen is only sold at one store in my area,they don't carry Acana there though.The reason I like the WEF canned is I think it has good ingredients for the price.I heard that Merrick is now sold at Petco.I have been seeing commercials for Blue Buffalo and Wellness,sold at Petco also.


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## GermanSheperdlover (Nov 15, 2009)

As soon as I saw your post I ran down to Petco and yes they do carry all the Merrick products. I bought a can of Whole Earth Farms adult, but it was 1.49+ the good ole governors (she's a witch) share. The bag of kibble was 39 bucks but was on sale for 34. This might be a option for me in the future.


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## GermanSheperdlover (Nov 15, 2009)

Hey Michelle, just what is Marigold Pot? is this something that gets the dogs high so they go to sleep at night ??? LOL, I just couldn't help myself...


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## Michelle6 (Feb 12, 2010)

Jess LOL-You made me curious,so I looked it up. Pot Marigold
(Calendula officinalis)

Marigolds,calendulas,herbs,fall flowersThese bright yellow and orange flowers are a familiar sight in cottage and country gardens. The plant is a native of southern Europe but flourishes in cool, temperate climates. The petals have a pungent, spicy flavor and the leaves have a bitter aftertaste. It is used more for medicinal than culinary purposes. This hardy annual grows to a height of about 9-20 inches and has a long flowering period.

Cultivation

Seeds may be sown directly in the bed, border, or flower box throughout spring and summer. The plant prefers a rich, light soil and a sunny location. Add compost to the soil if necessary, then sidedress with additional compost when the plants are well extablished. Water deeply during dry spells. It will seed itself readily.

Culinary Uses

The petals, with their slight aromatic bitterness are used in fish and meat soups, rice dishes, salads, and as a coloring for cheese and butter. The whole flower was used as a garnish in medieval times.

Marigold Wine

2 quarts marigolds (use Calendula officinalis only)
1 gallon boiling water
1 campden tablet, crushed (sterilizer)
thinly pared peel and juice of 3 tangerines or other soft citrus fruit
thinly pared peel and juice of 1 lemon
5½ cups sugar
1¼ cups white raisins, finely chopped
wine yeast
yeast nutrient

Wash the flowers and put into a large container. Add the boiling water and stir in the Campden tablet.
Leave for 24 hours.

Draw off 1 cup of the liquid, add citrus peel and heat to just on the point of boiling. Add the sugar, stirring until dissolved. Cool to body temperature, then pour back into the original container. Add raisins, citrus juice, yeast, and nutrient. Cover and leave 5 days to ferment, stirring twice each day.

Strain through a double thickness of muslin. Pour into a fermenting jar fitted with a fermentation lock and leave to continue fermenting. Rack the wine as it begins to clear.

When completely clear, store in a cool, dark, dry place for six months to mature.

Medicinal Use

Calendula heals wounds as well as internal and external ulcers. It is an antiseptic, and improves blood flow to the affected area. As an antifungal agent, it can be used to treat athlete's foot, ringworm, and candida. The tincture applied neat to cold sores encourages healing . Calendula cream is good for acne and diaper rash. An infusion is good for digestion and relieves colitis and symptoms of menopause.

Other Uses

An infusion of the petals can be used as a rinse to lighten and brighten hair. The petals also make a nourishing cream for the skin. Pot marigold makes an attractive cut flower and can be grown in the vegetable garden to help with insect control.

Creamy Marigold Cleanser

4 tablespoons olive or almond oil
2 tablespoons dried pot marigold flowers
few drops of violet, orange blossom or rose water


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## GermanSheperdlover (Nov 15, 2009)

Not only can they get high, but then they can get drunk. I sure hope Tony is a happy drunk. Then they can put flowers in their hair and be Hippies. Diaper rash ?? athlete’s foot and ringworm ?? and symptoms of menopause.. Oh noooooo..


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## KC23 (Nov 17, 2010)

Hi again. Jess--re: that girl who has her dog on Science Diet--I heard back from her. Her dog was on a prescription formula for a while, but then she put it on the Science Diet Sensitive formula on her own--the vet never specified what brand for her to use. The situation was that one vet charged her $700 for tests, and wanted to do surgery for another $1000 due to something looking "irregular" in the intestine. That vet even told her that her dog would need to be put to sleep if she didn't do the surgery--had her crying. SO..she took it to a different vet for a 2nd opinion, and he treated the dog with diet/antibiotics. I gave her some recommendations, including TOTW Pacific Stream Canine Formula as it says it's "highly digestible energy for your sensitive dog", and it is an affordable, high-quality food. She was paying $35 for 15 lbs. of the Science Diet--that's a lot of money for a bunch of junky fillers.


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## Michelle6 (Feb 12, 2010)

Jess,at least when Tony goes through menopause he won't have hot flashes!!! LOL.Or a yeast infection!!!Seriously,I guess they use it for the "aids in digestion" reason.It sounds like pretty good stuff to me.


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## GermanSheperdlover (Nov 15, 2009)

LOL, THAT WAS GOOD. Ya, I figured out it's real use right away. I thought we needed a laugh here once in awhile!


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## dr_tim (Aug 16, 2010)

I will need an address to send the "moose in a can" to you.


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## Michelle6 (Feb 12, 2010)

Dr Tim-joking aside,if you made 100% moose in a can dog food,people WOULD buy it!!! I know I would.


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## Visitor1 (Jan 26, 2011)

WOW-stopped in for the first and probably last time; at the very least I won't read ANY comments on this site. If this is the tone you "regulars" take when someone disagrees with you (and has the nerve to not have a handle on English grammar), you can keep it. If you think I'm the only one who thinks this way, take a look at people's votes to your comments. Go have a cup of tea and hug your dog.

Can't we just be nice to each other?


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## GermanSheperdlover (Nov 15, 2009)

This is my point about what these do for the dogs when they get old, man o man I wish they'd give this slim ball to me,,,,

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/restlessnativeblog/2014124251_whistler_dog-slaughter_suspect_goes_public_sort_of.html


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## GermanSheperdlover (Nov 15, 2009)

The whole time I read this Tony was laying on my bed looking at me and my rage just grew....


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## Michelle14 (Oct 18, 2010)

There was nothing "Humane" about the way these dogs were "Euthanised".It Sounds more to me like they were tortured/murdered.This guy should do jail time,and the whole operation should be shut down!!


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## GermanSheperdlover (Nov 15, 2009)

This happens MUCH more often than you think. There was another article where the guy was in the ditch stabbing the dogs that were still alive but they took it down.


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## Xenia1 (Aug 14, 2011)

I am getting a puppy soon please someone tell me what puppy food is good!! = )


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## dr tim (Mar 27, 2011)

I believe an All Life Stage Food is what people should feed to pups. Puppy food is marketing, in my opinion. I would recommend Kinesis for your pup. Good luck.


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## Julien (Aug 6, 2012)

We love these foods and they are the best we have ever used. Period


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