# Abbie and raw



## meggels (May 30, 2010)

Do you think it'd be possible to feed Abbie an appropriate (as in enough variety) raw diet on $40 budget per month?


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

how much does abbie weigh?

what does it cost you to feed murph?


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## blue_dog (Mar 28, 2012)

It's going to depend on your location but I certainly think you can. I have a large dog (110lbs) who will be getting about 2lbs a day. I've been looking everywhere for cheap sources and have come up with a monthly budget plan that comes up to about $31-$38 a month with 4-5 sources of protein (chicken, beef, pork, turkey and possibly fish). Look at butchers, meat packers, slaughter houses, and ask local hunters for scraps or cheaper cuts/parts. You can also put up flyers asking for cheap meat scraps or parts, or even for freezer burned meats for free. Most people are just going to throw freezer burned meats out anyways. You should also look into local co-ops, I haven't yet myself, but a lot of people get fantastic deals through them!


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

She is 39lbs. I would say, based on her kibble intake, she has a kind of high metabolism. 

Idk when she blew up to 39lbs, but she did. I thought she was 32, but at the vet last week she was 39lbs on the scale! I practically shouted "OH MY GOD YOU ARE HUGE" lol.

I don't think she's fat by any means though. This is her last week.












It costs me around $60 to feed Murph each month but he is fed mostly premade. With Abbie, I will do mostly prey model. 

I do know that at my friends store, I can get Vital Essentaisl "bits, ends and pieces" for $40 for a 25lb box, in either chicken or beef (something that is exclusive only to his store). I like VE a lot, so this could be a good deal. I would need to get a chest freezer though... which is a whole new dilemna lol.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

well, she does not look fat to me....at all.

chest freezers...they make great additions to bedrooms, living rooms.....just don't put too much on the surface. then it's hard to get open.

if you can get a deal like that, why not feed both the same way? wouldn't that cheapen up murph's diet? and then you can feed both dogs more cheaply.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

I could, but it only comes in chicken or beef, so I would want to give him a bit more variety. Like right now he gets NW naturals bison, lamb, turkey, chicken/salmon, beef. He also gets venison or duck from NV. 

My apartment is one room LOL, so it would be in my bedroom/living room. 

I wonder if I could fit a 25lb box in my freezer if I broke it up into servings in baggies though...


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## shellbell (Sep 24, 2011)

I think it just all depends. I know someone with three dogs, who feeds a great variety (though mainly deer) and she only spends about $75 A YEAR.


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## pogo (Aug 28, 2011)

I suppose it depends where you buy from and whether you have space to by in bulk. $40 is about £25 i think? anyway i feed my two, one being a 45kg ambull on just £10 a month but i do buy i bulk


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## tem_sat (Jun 20, 2010)

The less you feed of the commercial and/or prepackaged raw (read: purchased from a boutique), the more you will save. I simply don't see a reason to spend $60.00 per month on Murphy. I would expect you to be averaging about $1.00 to $1.50 per pound. That is alot more than I spend, but I am trying to take your location into account.


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## Sheltielover25 (Jan 18, 2011)

I feed three dogs on $60 a month. We feed whole animals so it's cheaper like whole chickens and rabbits and quail. They also get beef trim/heart and pork trim/heart. I don't buy anything from the stores and make sure everything is all antibiotic/hormone/GMO-free and still do it that cheaply. We hadn't been spending anything per year due to CL scores, but now it's not hunting season and seems harder to come by. I'm feeding about 1.5 lbs a day.

So, yes, I think it's possible! Good luck!


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

i think it's possible. I spend more than that but I haven't found any real cheap sources.

by the way, she looks great. Not fat at all.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

tem_sat said:


> The less you feed of the commercial and/or prepackaged raw (read: purchased from a boutique), the more you will save. I simply don't see a reason to spend $60.00 per month on Murphy. I would expect you to be averaging about $1.00 to $1.50 per pound. That is alot more than I spend, but I am trying to take your location into account.


Honestly, I'm more comfortable feeding him premade because of the difficult time he had with eating RMB's. I know they can adjust, and re has her pug who does it, and Melissa has Yogi the other frenchie, but I just feel more comfortable this way . The Vital Essentials would be a great deal though.


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## tem_sat (Jun 20, 2010)

meggels said:


> Honestly, I'm more comfortable feeding him premade because of the difficult time he had with eating RMB's. I know they can adjust, and re has her pug who does it, and Melissa has Yogi the other frenchie, but I just feel more comfortable this way . The Vital Essentials would be a great deal though.


What about sourcing and dental benefits? Those, to me, are a large part of why PMR is superior to pre-made, however, if you are happy and Murphy is happy, then it's all good.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

He gets antlers, bully sticks, and nylabones for the dental. He's got the most perfect teeth I've seen lol.


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## tem_sat (Jun 20, 2010)

meggels said:


> He gets antlers, bully sticks, and nylabones for the dental. He's got the most perfect teeth I've seen lol.


That doesn't touch on sourcing, however, I think Murphy is very lucky genetically to be able to maintain good clean teeth without RMB's. Amazingly lucky. Good for you both!


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

I realize it doesn't touch on sourcing.


If it's still cleaning his teeth, does it really matter if they aren't edible bones??? It's still cleaning them.


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## Sheltielover25 (Jan 18, 2011)

tem_sat said:


> That doesn't touch on sourcing, however, I think Murphy is very lucky genetically to be able to maintain good clean teeth without RMB's. Amazingly lucky. Good for you both!


I do think it's genetic, too, and actually I know it is to some extent. My mom had a boston terrier who ate pedigree packets, not kibble or anything even, and tons of tablescraps-- yeah, unhealthy but she's learned better now -- anyway, the dog was overweight and not the healthiest but the dog had the whitest teeth!! I am still always puzzled over that one. I'm talking white, white too! My girlfriend, is 29, and never had a cavity either and we both brush/floss same amount and eat pretty similar. We've been together almost seven years and I've had fillings over this time, and she's just perfect! I'm jealous of these animals and people with the perfect teethe gene!


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## tem_sat (Jun 20, 2010)

meggels said:


> I realize it doesn't touch on sourcing.
> 
> 
> If it's still cleaning his teeth, does it really matter if they aren't edible bones??? It's still cleaning them.


That's a good question. I would step up and say, it's not the premade that is "cleaning" his teeth. I really have no idea how that is possible, to be truly honest with you. For example, I made a major screw up within the past 60 days or so. What I did was to feed more canned sardines and, at the same time, not brush teeth daily. That caused a buildup of sardine goop, for lack of a better term, to stick to my Doxie's upper canines. In that period of time, there was plaque buildup, a dark line directly beneath the gums, and I was very upset with myself for being lazy and trusting the RMB's. In short, I feel you are very lucky to not have a tendency for severe buildup while feeding ground and not feeding RMB's. I do not know how often you brush teeth, but I would make a habit of checking them daily.

Edited to add: I cannot fathom a way of nylabones, bully sticks, or antlers scraping and cleaning the front teeth, canines, or inner sides of any teeth. That is why RMB's such as turkey necks are so excellent. The large ones are wide and long, almost like a square, and, at least for my Doxie, require that he chew all the way up to his canines to get a good grip.


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## IslandPaws4Raw (Sep 7, 2011)

For the freezer question......yes you should be able to fit 25lbs of stuff in your freezer. I have a regular size appliance that holds about that much dog meat + what I have in there for us without having to fight the door shut :wink:


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

tem_sat said:


> That's a good question. I would step up and say, it's not the premade that is "cleaning" his teeth. I really have no idea how that is possible, to be truly honest with you. For example, I made a major screw up within the past 60 days or so. What I did was to feed more canned sardines and, at the same time, not brush teeth daily. That caused a buildup of sardine goop, for lack of a better term, to stick to my Doxie's upper canines. In that period of time, there was plaque buildup, a dark line directly beneath the gums, and I was very upset with myself for being lazy and trusting the RMB's. In short, I feel you are very lucky to not have a tendency for severe buildup while feeding ground and not feeding RMB's. I do not know how often you brush teeth, but I would make a habit of checking them daily.
> 
> Edited to add: I cannot fathom a way of nylabones, bully sticks, or antlers scraping and cleaning the front teeth, canines, or inner sides of any teeth. That is why RMB's such as turkey necks are so excellent. The large ones are wide and long, almost like a square, and, at least for my Doxie, require that he chew all the way up to his canines to get a good grip.



I dunno, but his teeth are clean. I've never brushed them.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

meggels said:


> Honestly, I'm more comfortable feeding him premade because of the difficult time he had with eating RMB's. I know they can adjust, and re has her pug who does it, and Melissa has Yogi the other frenchie, but I just feel more comfortable this way . The Vital Essentials would be a great deal though.


what if you were to use the scraps as the basics and then use the vital essentials for both dogs. that way, they can both be on raw, and both get the benefits of other sources.

also, this way, since you're so uncomfortable with edible bone, you can scrape the beef or chicken off the bone and feed boneless with the pre made. 

that way, both can enjoy different sources and it's cheaper for you.

plus, if you are uncomfortable, you can give beef ribs.....neither dog will actually eat the bone, but they will have a great time getting the meat off....

murph is young....as he ages, he will get placque....maybe time to think about getting a little more comfy with complicated bone.....not marrow, or knuckle or anything like that..

but pork ribs are soft, as is chicken....


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## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

If he does start to get plaque, definitely go for whole beef oxtail if you can find it! Around 1 foot long and it has small vertebrae so they have to really use their teeth to get into the nooks and crannies. Turkey necks, lamb necks are good too (but are edible). 

I agree with Re- use the scraps for both dogs- or you can maybe (if you get a freezer) buy in bulk from a butcher- whole chickens- and see if they can grind it with the bone for you? Then spend the money on boneless proteins to supplement like beef, pork.. I'm sure Murph would be just fine on whole fish. The bones are so soft in things like herring they aren't a choking hazard at all.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

When you guys are saying scraps, what do you mean?


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

I'm def open to adding rmb's to his diet, I have chicken thighs in the freezer ikeep forgetting about. He is just such a pig and turns into such an idiot with food. And my friend that I got to switch her pug to vital essentials, almost died with a duck neck. She had to do the freaking heimlack on her.


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## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

That chicken/beef stuff you were talking about from Vital. At least that's what I meant.. for dogs that hork their food you just gotta give bigger cuts, so instead of chicken thighs and necks do backs, turkey necks, pork hocks... easier with once a day feeding!


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

i give Snorkels bones that are way to big to swallow or else small enough that she can swallow them whole with no after effects. 

well, most of the time.

Oddly enough, the only thing she's ever choked on was a piece of kidney. I had to whack her around to get it out.


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## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

Personally, I think you worry too much 

We, on average, spend anywhere between $20 and $120 per month on both dogs. If I have to rely on Walmart quarters for Dude and NEX beef hearts for Buck for the entire month then it is a bit more costly but you have to remember that I am feeding a 61 lb dog and a 62 lb dog who will be around 80 all filled out.

If I can get a good deal on Craigslist then I spend significantly less. Our local butcher has been a great source too. 

It would cost us a FORTUNE on premade. I can't even wrap my head around the fact that you feed tiny little Murph on $60 per month. I could feed Buck on less than that.

If you were to just suck it up and get over your fear of bones (easier said than done, I know) for Murph you would save SO much. I understand the fear of bones. Really, I do. I will admit to not being totally over it myself. I have a gulper too. The difference is that your gulper is tiny. Mine is 62 lbs and growing. You just have to give them bigger cuts of meat. Your friend who's dog choked on a duck neck shouldn't be given duck necks. The smallest I would give a dog like that is a tom turkey neck. Gulpers are a pain in the @$$ but they CAN be fed PMR safely. 

Honestly, I am more than willing to help you with this. We are friends on fb so feel free to message me on there whenever. Or here. That works too. I'm always open to helping. 

And yes, you can fit 25 lbs of meat in your freezer. We don't have anything in the freezer for us but we were able to fit 50 lbs of beef scrap plus 25 lbs of sardines in the freezer on top of some other things already in there. We have nearly 100 lbs of meat in our freezer and it is just the freezer on our kitchen fridge. We don't have a chest freezer.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

Dude and Bucks Mamma said:


> Personally, I think you worry too much
> 
> We, on average, spend anywhere between $20 and $120 per month on both dogs. If I have to rely on Walmart quarters for Dude and NEX beef hearts for Buck for the entire month then it is a bit more costly but you have to remember that I am feeding a 61 lb dog and a 62 lb dog who will be around 80 all filled out.
> 
> ...



thanks for the replies guys. Jesse, the reason I worry about money is that right now, I'm living off of a set amount each month that has been put aside in advance, so my budget is pretty much exactly what I planned it to be, with not a whole lotta room for extras, just a tiny bit.


I know I would save a lot if I did PMR with Murph vs premade, but I can't lie, I love the convenience and ease of the premade lol ;( But I will keep thinking about it. 

And yes, gulpers are a pain in the ass LOL.


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## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

You have to remember that we don't have a ton of money either. I just think it would help you financially to feed both PMR and you might even have a little extra left over. How much does Murph weigh?


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

a whopping 20lbs lol


and god damn girl, you are up early on a saturday mornng lol


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## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

meggels said:


> a whopping 20lbs lol
> 
> 
> and god damn girl, you are up early on a saturday mornng lol


Your two dogs combined weigh less than one of mine! Haha

And yea. I'm not up early... I'm still up from yesterday. We got paid last night and went to Winco and ended up barbecuing at 11 last night and right before we pulled our food off the grill Buck ate half a tennis ball so I have been up worrying about him.


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

I could feed both those dogs for aproximitly $30/month($50/month if I were to not use my wholesale place). So yes, if researched propperly feeding the 2 of them on your budget can easily be done. 

As far as freezer space.....Jess how much meat did you have in your over-the-fridge freezer? (Before and after you had to have it tied shut!:tongue


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## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

Scarlett_O' said:


> I could feed both those dogs for aproximitly $30/month($50/month if I were to not use my wholesale place). So yes, if researched propperly feeding the 2 of them on your budget can easily be done.
> 
> As far as freezer space.....Jess how much meat did you have in your over-the-fridge freezer? (Before and after you had to have it tied shut!:tongue


I am guessing that we have close to 100 lbs in there. Or did when it was tied shut. Dang thing kept popping open and wouldn't seal. Haha. 

We were able to fit in all of the 50 lbs of beef/elk scrap, all 25 lbs of sardines and we had some stuff in there from before. We still have a calf leg or two in there! Plus some pork necks and the ground beef you gave us (which is gone now. Haha). Oh! And the tom turkey necks you gave us too. That was ten pounds.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

not to go off topic, but how's the dog, jess?


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## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

magicre said:


> not to go off topic, but how's the dog, jess?


Still happy, still stupid. He is snoozing away but went to the store with us this morning and was his usual obnoxious self.


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