# Neuter question



## ajcstr (May 24, 2010)

We were going to have our male yorkie/bichon neutered at 5/6 mos as the vet recommended but I backed off when reading some stuff about doing it too early. My concern is he is getting very aggressive, snapping at us and terrorizing our 5 year old female yorkie/bichon. The trainer tells me many of these issues will ease up after the surgery and is telling me to get it done ASAP. I have read articles that are all over the place as far as timing goes. I wanted to hold out till 8 months, but I am worried he will get worse so I am thinking 7 mos (end of Feb). Any suggestions would be appreciated.


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## greyshadows (Jan 30, 2012)

I know this won't be popular by some but we neutered our male at 7 months for the same reasons as you speak of above. Plus he started lifting his leg and "humping" my neutered female. I realize there are arguments on both sides but you have to do what you feel is best for your lifestyle. For example, snapping dogs with children isn't a good thing. If you live in an apartment or city he might get aggressive because the chance of a fertile female is more likely. I thought maybe we could train him to not have this behavior but after a month it did no good(imagine trying to get a pre pubescent boy to stop his thoughts and behavior). We wanted and tried to last until he was a year old but we and our vet (who is a holistic vet) felt 7 months was the time. All of his nasty habits we saw beginning have stopped and he is an adorable little guy again! Good luck!


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## twoisplenty (Nov 12, 2008)

There are many different views on when to spay/neuter. It use to always be recommended right away at 6 mths of age but I have read more and more about leaving them until after 18mths of age or after a 2nd heat cycle as dogs need those hormones to help decrease the chances of certain cancers.

I personally only spay once my female is done breeding which is usually around 4yrs of age and of course our studs are intact. I recommend to our puppy people to leave males until a year and I prefer females spayed prior to their 1st heat for obvious reasons which is by 10 mths of age for my lines. However..... I do tell our clients if they see any changes in personality or temperament to neuter and spay earlier.


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## Khan (Jan 17, 2010)

I have mixed feelings on this as well. I neutered Zeus at 6 months. By the time he was 2, he needed knee surgery (TPLO) exactly a year later he got his 2nd TPLO. When he was 4 1/2 he was diagnosed with osteoscarcoma within 2 months he was gone. Now, do I blame getting him neutered for ALL of those things...No, he was obviously genetically not sound; buuut if I had waited until he was a little older would that have helped? I will never know the real answer and yes I still "What If" those things to myself.
When we brought Khan home, I vowed to wait until he was closer to a year. I did not want to be "What If'ing" with him. I didn't make it. When he turned 7 months he was doing the same sort of thing to Shelby. Now, she can totally hold her own, and he is still afraid of her kicking his a$$ today!! LOL. I was really worried he would squish her! Mastiffs go for the neck, and push down their opponent and hold them. He was starting to do that with her! So needless to say when he was about 7 1/2 months he was clipped! If I had bigger dogs, I probably would have not been as worried; but quite honestly I didn't want him getting use to any of these behaviors and I really didn't want to worry about trying to train them out of him!


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

I also have mixed feelings about this. For various reasons, although I dont think Rhett will ever be altered, if he were to be it would be after he is fully matured.

However Brody was altered at 6 months old(which I dont regret for a second...I didnt ever want little butt-heads running around!LOL) And sadly he is still a total a$$ to everyone some days. :wacko:


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

This is a bit of a controversy. I dislike spaying/neutering immature dogs. At the same time it may help a little with his behavior, but some of it is him. Maybe he has gotten away with milder behaviors and is escalating due to age? Neutering may help and if you feel that is the case then you should get it done. Be aware though that some behaviors just happen at certain ages. About 8 months old my youngster like to challenge my old man, neutering hasn't changed that in our case, but it has curbed marking and other milder dominance behaviors. Snapping and being a terror are things that might not be totally eradicated by neutering. I just wanted you to know that so you won't be expecting an angel in a few weeks. LOL It is rare for there to be a problem during the neuter surgery and recovery is generally fast. hwell:


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## DandD (Jan 4, 2012)

I agree that this is a very controversial subject. We got Dodger first and have been extremely lucky with him, he is an incredibly gentle soul, not an aggressive bone in his body; we decided right away that we wanted to leave him intact until he was 2 years of age so that he could have his full growth potential and only neuter him before then if we absolutely had to because of behavior changes. He is almost 19 months now and still no signs of aggression at all, he has never tried to hump anyone, and is a very happy boy.

We got Daisy when she was just about 4 months old and my little baby girl went into her first heat just after she was 4 months old (thankfully Dodger was too young to be interested at all); we wanted to keep her intact as long as possible as well and I agonized over the decision to get her spayed but it finally came down to the fact that my husband works away and I didn't feel confidant in my ability to keep Dodger away from her when she went into heat again and I was concerned for her safety; so she went under the knife at 8 months as I had no idea when her next heat would occur when her first one happened at such a young age.

There's a lot of new research out there now but ultimately the final decision comes down to you and what you feel is best for your dog.


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## brandypup (Jan 23, 2012)

I do firmly belive the bigger the animal the longer the wait. Smal and medium breeds I feel and have the most experieance with do just fine at or before 6 months. 

also since I am getting an english masitff in the future I have come across information that when behavior issues crop up all bets are off and the dog gets neutered. Other wise for the giant breed it's reccoemended at 18 months. (neuter) 

So my suggestion to you- if there is no medical reason and yuo can not correct the behavioral issues with training, yes get pup neutered.

All my life I have done early age alters. Dogs and cats. The only one that was spayed late was my last 60lb dog Brandy and she had the most horrible recovery ever. I never had any issues other then Toshi had some inconganace at 15 years old. But all my animals other then brandy were small-medium.

from my understasnding and reading the cancers are only prevented with early alteres before heat cycles.


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## Makovach (Jan 24, 2012)

DandD said:


> I agree that this is a very controversial subject. We got Dodger first and have been extremely lucky with him, he is an incredibly gentle soul, not an aggressive bone in his body; we decided right away that we wanted to leave him intact until he was 2 years of age so that he could have his full growth potential and only neuter him before then if we absolutely had to because of behavior changes. He is almost 19 months now and still no signs of aggression at all, he has never tried to hump anyone, and is a very happy boy.
> 
> We got Daisy when she was just about 4 months old and my little baby girl went into her first heat just after she was 4 months old (thankfully Dodger was too young to be interested at all); we wanted to keep her intact as long as possible as well and I agonized over the decision to get her spayed but it finally came down to the fact that my husband works away and I didn't feel confidant in my ability to keep Dodger away from her when she went into heat again and I was concerned for her safety; so she went under the knife at 8 months as I had no idea when her next heat would occur when her first one happened at such a young age.
> 
> There's a lot of new research out there now but ultimately the final decision comes down to you and what you feel is best for your dog.


Wow I wonder if Tucker getting Neutered at 4 months stunted his growth? He is SMALL. Compared to all the dogs that are his relatives, he is about 1/2 their size, but when he was a pup, he was the biggest in the whole litter. now his unaltered brothers and sisters are way bigger than he is. He is a dainty little boy. I never knew that altering a dog young could affect so many things!


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## NewYorkDogue (Sep 27, 2011)

I believe it is a personal decision, and one best based on your particular dog and circumstances. I have a giant breed (9.5 month old French Mastiff who is intact) and it was recommended to me by the breeder that IF I was going to neuter him, to wait until he is at least 2 years old. I agree.

My intention is to not neuter him at all. So far, he has not displayed any unwanted behavior -- no mounting; no aggression (although if he is shown aggression by another dog-- and it has to be intense and unyielding-- he will definitely defend himself); no marking, etc.

I see no reason to neuter him at all (although I am not naive; things could change and I may amend this decision if I believe it is the only alternative).

But as of now, he's one healthy and happy pup...


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## Celt (Dec 27, 2010)

I am of the belief that it's "safe" to neuter/spay once a dog has "stop" growing which for most little dogs is around 6/7 months. Big dogs mature much later, so if possible their surgery should wait. I do know that I will "never" (well as far as saying never goes) neuter/spay a pup before that age or buy one that was. My Scotty was neutered before 9 weeks. I was told that this wouldn't have any "bad" effects (I know my bad for not researching more before hand) but when I noticed certain "off" characteristics I went searching and found out that early neutering cause an longer growth period especially of the "long" bones which can make them weaker, delayed "mature" behavior and in some case heart issues. When he broke his leg, the vet thought the early neutering may have been a factor. Although with him being an Italian Greyhound which are "known" for leg fractures especially before 18 months, I'm not sure if it wasn't just "bad" luck.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

I think alot of vets refuse to spay/neuter that early. I know a rescue I used to be involved with had some mixed breed puppies they weren't willing to adopt without it, so they had to try several vets before they found one that would do it at 8 weeks.


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## ajcstr (May 24, 2010)

Thanks for all the input.

Is there anything magical about 8 mos for small breeds? I was reading another thread where a vet would not neuter before 8 mos.


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## Celt (Dec 27, 2010)

From what I understand most small breed pups are finished or almost finished growing by that age. I know my doxies (when I had them), Blaise (my other IG), and my niece's poms were all "done" by that age.


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## chowder (Sep 7, 2008)

My last Chow was neutered at 5 months. He grew significantly bigger then both his parents and ended up having to have knee surgery before he was 4. We lost him during the first knee surgery. Another chow that was spayed at 6 months had knee surgery and hip problems. All of my dogs used to be done by 6 months old and they all ended up growing much bigger then their parents. But, that was what was recommended then. Rocky was done at 6 months because the rescue required it. He was also humping everything in sight (but had no other behavior issues). Rocky has grown much larger then I expected based on his puppy size but I have no idea if that is because of the early neutering or his diet. 

The breeder of the new puppy that I want requires that you wait at least 2 years to spay or neuter and would like you to consider never neutering male pups, even though they are a small breed.


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## ajcstr (May 24, 2010)

So, based on the comments here there doesn't seem to be a big difference between 7 vs 8 mos?


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

ajcstr said:


> Thanks for all the input.
> 
> Is there anything magical about 8 mos for small breeds? I was reading another thread where a vet would not neuter before 8 mos.


i too used to spay/neuter early.

and then my vet said he would not spay before 12-18 months. he explained that it wasn't just to prevent cancers...it was more to allow the pelvic girdle to fully grow and for all of the long bones to seal and become strong....

so i don't. it doesn't matter to me what size the dog is....from pugs to french mastiffs....for me, it's 18 to 24 months.

my pug was neutered at 2 years which is when we got him. we used belly bands as he had to be housetrained on top of him marking.

he didn't know any better....and he no longer marks...he no longer pees in the house...or during sleep....

and he is built like a truck driver....nice strong bones. that's my reason for waiting.

behaviours can be trained in or out of dogs for the most part....hormones need to be able to do their thang until babies are adults....we don't fix children...why would we fix dogs....who are not physically mature.


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## DandD (Jan 4, 2012)

magicre said:


> i too used to spay/neuter early.
> 
> and then my vet said he would not spay before 12-18 months. he explained that it wasn't just to prevent cancers...it was more to allow the pelvic girdle to fully grow and for all of the long bones to seal and become strong....


It's so nice to hear that there are vets out there that are demanding people wait! Every vet I've been to here with Dodger has brought it up, the ones that vehemently pushed neutering on me are no longer his vets, the one that listened to me as I explained my reasoning, and that I have done immense amounts of research is still his & Daisy's vet - I wonder how she'll react when I bring up raw - LOL


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

my vet did not react well. but i am a force to be reckoned with and he knows that i don't wilt under raised eyebrows and stern glances and 'oh the horror - how could you and i guess we'll be treating for salmonella and operating on those bones that get stuck'.....

he's better now.....you can't look at a raw fed dog and not be amazed...as he is...so he's quieter these days, which could be because he's a good diagnostician but a lousy nutritionist....and he only sees them once a year now.


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## NewYorkDogue (Sep 27, 2011)

magicre said:


> my vet did not react well. but i am a force to be reckoned with and he knows that i don't wilt under raised eyebrows and stern glances...
> ....and he only sees them once a year now.


Ha-- well, that's exactly how my vet reacted when I told him I intend to feed my pup a raw-based diet (the eyebrow lift and dubious glance was spot on).

Anyway... I intend not to wilt. Although last summer when I first met with him, I did wilt. A little. hwell: 

Again--moving forward, I fully intend to borrow some of your bravado. Thank you...


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## lauren43 (Feb 6, 2011)

I have been volunteering for rescues for years, I also worked at a shelter when I was 15...All of them spayed and neutered at 7-8 weeks of age, but the reasoning is simple--prevent more unwanted litters. IMO I can't knock rescues and shelters for doing this, people want puppies and not all people can be trusted to wait. For the longest time I did not see anything wrong with spaying and neutering at such a young age, but now I am definitely torn. 

I do personally still feel females should be done before their first heat, because the rate of certain cancers increase after their first heat...but I also realize there are some breeds of dogs prone to other types of cancers that can possibly be prevented by waiting until the dog is more mature. 

As far as neutering goes, I don't see as many issues either way..waiting may or may not allow the dog to grow properly (depending on the dog itself), perhaps doing it earlier prevents some of the unwanted behaviors spoke of above, I guess in certain breeds some cancers may be a factor...As you can see its an internal struggle.

Avery was neutered by the rescue I got him from at 3-4 months, so far so good. Tess was spayed after her first heat, I think because she went into heat right before we decided to have her spayed, so far so good for her as well...she's now 8, will be 9 in July and she has her health issues but there is no way of knowing if they are related to her spay or not...

I know one thing is for certain all my pets will be spayed and neutered at one point or another. And for me most (if not all) will be rescues (I am not a puppy or breeder type, not that there's anything wrong with that)...anywho, in which case I assume most of my future pets will be altered before I take them home so I guess it will be a decision I won't necessarily have to make. But if I do have to make the decision, thanks to this forum, I will definitely put a lot of thought and research into it beforehand.


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## Kat (Jul 12, 2011)

My vet suggested I spay Ruby when she was 5 months old, which I did. I was always told the younger the better


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

NewYorkDogue said:


> Ha-- well, that's exactly how my vet reacted when I told him I intend to feed my pup a raw-based diet (the eyebrow lift and dubious glance was spot on).
> 
> Anyway... I intend not to wilt. Although last summer when I first met with him, I did wilt. A little. hwell:
> 
> Again--moving forward, I fully intend to borrow some of your bravado. Thank you...


we northeasterners have to have cojones. after all, we do have a rep to uphold. 

and you may borrow as much as you like. fly me to manhattan and i'll go with you LOL --- hold your widdle hand...pet de dog.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

lauren43 said:


> And for me most (if not all) will be rescues (I am not a puppy or breeder type, not that there's anything wrong with that)...anywho, in which case I assume most of my future pets will be altered before I take them home so I guess it will be a decision I won't necessarily have to make. But if I do have to make the decision, thanks to this forum, I will definitely put a lot of thought and research into it beforehand.


Me too. Not only do I not have to make decisions on spay/neuter, but it was a very easy decision for me to stop vaccinations, as they'd already had years of them. For a puppy, I might have been more torn about it.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

magicre said:


> we northeasterners have to have cojones. after all, we do have a rep to uphold.
> 
> and you may borrow as much as you like. fly me to manhattan and i'll go with you LOL --- hold your widdle hand...pet de dog.


Maybe you could start a new career. Fly around the country and go with us weenies to the vet.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

xellil said:


> Maybe you could start a new career. Fly around the country and go with us weenies to the vet.


that new picture cracks me up.

for the price of a flight, dinner and a martini....and i'm there. 

i'm actually tired of doctors and vets who don't know what they're talking about....

i get it about rescue places...we adopted a cat from paws...and they spayed her. she was so young....three months i think...and i know they do it, because they don't know how trustworthy we are when we adopt...sure, we promise.

but if we have the opportunity, i think it's worth looking into and not necessarily blindly following what the vet says.


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## Chocx2 (Nov 16, 2009)

My Aussie did the same, I waited till he was 1 year old, nothing changed after I fixed him, he humps every pillow he can and he is very aggressive he is just about six now.


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## Maxy24 (Mar 5, 2011)

Whenever thinking of leaving a dog intact beyond sexual maturity the most important question to ask is "Can I prevent this dog from reproducing?" if you can't answer that with a confident yes then you should neuter by about 6 months of age. If you can answer that with a confident yes then I think waiting until 1 year or 18 months is a great idea. Waiting longer is fine as well, I mean honestly it's an unnecessary surgery, why do it if you can prevent your dog from reproducing in other ways? For health benefits I think neutering in early adulthood (before 4 years or so) is ideal as most health problems associated with neutering are due to early neuter, and most health problems due to not neutering occur later in life (not talking about spaying, not spaying can be a little more risky).


As far as neutering to fix behavior, I think it can help humping, marking indoors, and same sex dog aggression. The first two can also be eradicated with training, though neutering is easier for people to do so that's why it's always used as a reason to neuter. Being intact should not cause aggression towards people, unless perhaps you have an intact female the dog is guarding. So I would not neuter and expect those problems to go away. I think you should work on a training plan to fix the aggression, with or without balls. Make sure your trainer is skilled in working with aggression and uses positive methods that won't make it worse, aggression is very dangerous to treat with punishment.

That said, if you were planning on neutering at 8 months anyways, I don't think doing it at 7 months will make a big difference. Especially with a small dog.


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