# Sako is "afraid" of his bone in meals..



## kady05 (Jul 29, 2011)

Yes. My dog is a total weirdo. 

But really, he's scared to eat bone in meals now. Started on May 2nd (I remember because it was the day he turned 18 months and I gave him rabbit) and is still going on. As far as I know, his teeth are fine and he's never hurt himself chewing.. he's very "emotional", so I think I would know if he had!

What he does is act like he's in trouble when I feed him. He gets bone in for his AM meals, boneless for PM (stools stay the best this way, I realize it's more bone than most dogs get). When I put his bowl down, he pins his ears, tail goes low and wags like crazy, and I basically have to be a cheerleader to get him to even consider eating  Some days are better than others with this, it just depends on his mood.

So far, he WILL still eat his chicken quarters, eventually. Today I gave him a turkey neck and got him to eat one piece, but he wouldn't eat the other. I've been specifically cutting his pieces smaller so they aren't so daunting to him.. think maybe 5-6" long, fairly thin neck (they're the small end of a tom turkey neck). I've only been giving him the leg half of the chicken quarter as well. Nothing that a 50lb. Amstaff should be worried about! 
Now, if this was one of my other dogs, I'd probably do the tough love thing and just let him go hungry. BUT, we show conformation, just had a show the last 3 days, and have another 3 day show coming up in June. I can't exactly show with a skinny dog, and he drops weight easily.

I have NO clue how to get him over this.. it's almost like he's going through a fear stage and has chosen bone in meals as what he's afraid of. I know I can feed him ground stuff (he eats his boneless meals just fine), but then he'd lose all the teeth cleaning benefits of raw. 

Anyone have any suggestions? I can try to take a video one morning to show you guys.. it's truly pitiful!


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## Maligatork9 (Feb 8, 2012)

Is he only like that when you are feeding chicken and turkey necks? Have you given him anything else such as ribs? Was he the same way with the rabbit? Before I switched my dog over to raw I would practically have to beg my dog to eat her kibble. She could care less about eating her food, no matter how long it had been since she last ate. Now she LOVES eating (duh right? lol). My point is maybe he isnt scared??? Maybe he just doesnt like it?? :noidea:


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## Hadley (Jan 6, 2011)

Do you feed him in a crate? Maybe try it and walk away so that you aren't "watching" him eat. You may not be looking directly, but perhaps he doesn't like an audience just the same. Or perhaps just being in the crate til he eats will get him going. I tie my Phineas to the fridge when he doesn't want to eat. Once he realizes he has no choice.. it's either eat, or stay where you are.. he usually eats. If he doesn't then I just pick it up and save it for later. 



Do you separate the dogs completely when you're feeding? Maybe the competition will get him going if they're present, but I understand if you're worried about food aggression issues as well.


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## kady05 (Jul 29, 2011)

Maligatork9 said:


> Is he only like that when you are feeding chicken and turkey necks? Have you given him anything else such as ribs? Was he the same way with the rabbit? Before I switched my dog over to raw I would practically have to beg my dog to eat her kibble. She could care less about eating her food, no matter how long it had been since she last ate. Now she LOVES eating (duh right? lol). My point is maybe he isnt scared??? Maybe he just doesnt like it?? :noidea:


Yes, he's only like this with the chicken and turkey. Those are the only (for the most part) bone in meals I feed. I do have some big chunks from when I cut up the pork shoulder roasts I got that I might see what he does with.. before this started he had zero issues. He ate the rabbit fine (it was bone in), so I have no clue what got set off in his brain that day to make him act like this from then on!

Oh no, he's scared/stressed about it. His body language doesn't lie.. I'll definitely try to get a video of him so you guys can see what I'm talking about. He slinks around my kitchen, coming over to me for "support", I tell him to "Go eat." and he'll slink over to his bowl and lick it a bit, maybe pick it up, drops it on the floors, licks some more, etc. Up until today, he would always eventually eat it.



Hadley said:


> Do you feed him in a crate? Maybe try it and walk away so that you aren't "watching" him eat. You may not be looking directly, but perhaps he doesn't like an audience just the same. Or perhaps just being in the crate til he eats will get him going. I tie my Phineas to the fridge when he doesn't want to eat. Once he realizes he has no choice.. it's either eat, or stay where you are.. he usually eats. If he doesn't then I just pick it up and save it for later.
> 
> Do you separate the dogs completely when you're feeding? Maybe the competition will get him going if they're present, but I understand if you're worried about food aggression issues as well.


Nope I feed him separately in my kitchen, the other dogs eat outside on my deck. He actually walks away more if *I* walk away. What I've always done is put his bowl down, then take the other dogs bowls out on the deck. Shut door, watch other dogs eat (that way if anything happened I could quickly go outside) while he eats.

If I let my other two in they'd be like vultures and I know he'd just walk away. That and yes, I worry that Piper especially would get snarky about it.


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

I would time it between shows and tough love him.

There is no reason for him to act like that so I am lead to believe he is manipulating you.

Hope you find a cure for his strange affliction.


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## kady05 (Jul 29, 2011)

Sprocket said:


> I would time it between shows and tough love him.
> 
> There is no reason for him to act like that so I am lead to believe he is manipulating you.
> 
> Hope you find a cure for his strange affliction.


I took a video this morning, so y'all can see. It wasn't his worst, and he ended up eating it, but you'll be able to see some of the ultra-submissive "scared" behavior.


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## kady05 (Jul 29, 2011)

Here you go! Yes, he has hives..


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## danecolor (Nov 22, 2010)

take my interpretation with a grain of salt because he is not my dog and i do not know what his normal behavior is like.

however, from watching the video, he does look submissive but i do not see any fearfulness at all. it looks to me like he is reporting back to you in a submissive but otherwise happy and friendly way. maybe he is more interested in your attention than his food? is he a very approval-seeking dog? maybe you do not see this with his boneless meals because they do not take as long to eat?


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## kady05 (Jul 29, 2011)

danecolor said:


> take my interpretation with a grain of salt because he is not my dog and i do not know what his normal behavior is like.
> 
> however, from watching the video, he does look submissive but i do not see any fearfulness at all. it looks to me like he is reporting back to you in a submissive but otherwise happy and friendly way. maybe he is more interested in your attention than his food? is he a very approval-seeking dog? maybe you do not see this with his boneless meals because they do not take as long to eat?


Yes, he ALWAYS wants to "be good". I put "afraid" in parentheses since I do realize that I don't think he's literally.. scared of his food, it's just the only way I could describe it LOL.

This is a new behavior though. And it definitely has to do with bone in meals. Boneless, he goes right to his bowl and eats once he realizes it IS boneless. 

When I ignore him when he acts like this, he just follows me around, sitting right at my feet, doing the low tail wag "but.. but.. I LOVE you!" thing. If I "coach" him, he seems to do better.


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## Neeko (Aug 11, 2010)

He is stunning.

He has that "guilty" look about him. Maybe it's submissive/fear. Ears back, very tight tail wag, pacing. Poor guy.

Sorry I'm not too much help.


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## kady05 (Jul 29, 2011)

Neeko said:


> He is stunning.
> 
> He has that "guilty" look about him. Maybe it's submissive/fear. Ears back, very tight tail wag, pacing. Poor guy.
> 
> Sorry I'm not too much help.


He's lucky he's pretty, because he can be a total weirdo!

This is why I wanted to take a video of it, so you guys can actually see what I'm talking about. He's definitely a submissive little guy.


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## NewYorkDogue (Sep 27, 2011)

I'm thinking that Sako has made an association between eating bone-in meals and some (even minor) discomfort or pain. Did he maybe break off a piece of bone that may have hurt his mouth? Or maybe something scratched his throat?

***Okay- I just re-read your original post and you said that he didn't.***

That just seems like the only thing that makes sense...

It may just resolve itself over time, hopefully.


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## kady05 (Jul 29, 2011)

NewYorkDogue said:


> I'm thinking that Sako has made an association between eating bone-in meals and some (even minor) discomfort or pain. Did he maybe break off a piece of bone that may have hurt his mouth? Or maybe something scratched his throat?
> 
> ***Okay- I just re-read your original post and you said that he didn't.***
> 
> ...


Well I mean, I don't *know* if he did or didn't, I would just think he would've screamed if he had actually hurt himself, knowing how dramatic he can be.

I'm hoping it resolves itself too! It's just so strange..


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## jenv101 (Oct 13, 2010)

Is he "allowed" to eat it off the floor? Maybe he has some aversion to taking large pieces out of a raised dish or is afraid to make a mess - have you tried putting the pieces directly on the floor or outside on the grass instead of feeding out of the bowl?


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## kady05 (Jul 29, 2011)

jenv101 said:


> Is he "allowed" to eat it off the floor? Maybe he has some aversion to taking large pieces out of a raised dish or is afraid to make a mess - have you tried putting the pieces directly on the floor or outside on the grass instead of feeding out of the bowl?


Yup, he's allowed. And actually, since this started, he usually DOES take the pieces out of his bowl and drop them on the floor. Didn't today though. 

I even tried holding the piece of turkey neck for him yesterday and he wouldn't bite into it.


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

I think the most important thing to do is to not let him train you.

Coaxing him to eat, holding it for him. Thats all qualities of a well trained human


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## xchairity_casex (Oct 8, 2011)

OMG!!! this is EXACTLY like CESAR!! not even jokeing! when i had begun to read it was like "wow! Cesars not the only one!"
he doesnt do this all the time, he origianlly was doing this when i was freezing his food, he was having troubles crunching the bones up completley and i suspected they were going down his throat a little "hard" as he would kind of swallow hard and frequently as though he has recently thrown up.

so i quite freezeing the food and he did MUCH better, but then randomly he would swallow a bit and do the throat thing and the next few days would be nervous about eating and just pick at it.
its random for him, sometimes he will refuse to eat all togther so i will cut it up and hand feed him.
sometimes he acts afraid to eat the food if i dont hand it too him or if its a bigger piece. he will stare at it and nose it,lick it walk away or sit down,look at me ect.

too bad hes already been fed today! i would get a video for you to see, seriously he acts the SAME WAY. very nervous like sometimes.


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## kady05 (Jul 29, 2011)

Sprocket said:


> I think the most important thing to do is to not let him train you.
> 
> Coaxing him to eat, holding it for him. Thats all qualities of a well trained human


I'm not though. This has been going on for a month; for the first 3wks., I completely ignored him. When I do, he just sits at my feet. If I move, he follows me around, head down, tail low, very "worried". Only when I say "Go eat!" will he go back to his bowl. Yesterday was the first time I tried holding it for him to see if that'd help.

Like I said, I show him in conformation. Judges don't like skinny dogs (actually they prefer them FAT). Therefore, he HAS to eat. We have a busy show schedule the next few months.. so until that's over, I can't really do the whole tough love thing with him. Plus frankly, I don't think he'd really care if I took it away since he's really not food motivated whatsoever.



xchairity_casex said:


> OMG!!! this is EXACTLY like CESAR!! not even jokeing! when i had begun to read it was like "wow! Cesars not the only one!"
> he doesnt do this all the time, he origianlly was doing this when i was freezing his food, he was having troubles crunching the bones up completley and i suspected they were going down his throat a little "hard" as he would kind of swallow hard and frequently as though he has recently thrown up.
> 
> so i quite freezeing the food and he did MUCH better, but then randomly he would swallow a bit and do the throat thing and the next few days would be nervous about eating and just pick at it.
> ...


Well at least Sako isn't alone LOL. 

All of his meals are completely thawed, so that wouldn't be the issue here. I could try cutting up even smaller less "daunting" pieces for him though.


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## Celt (Dec 27, 2010)

My boys can be weird and rather finicky <sigh> Have you tried to make bone in meals into a "game"? With my Blaise, I use to "make" the chicken necks cluck, "walk" and hide (placed it under a towel) so he could "chase" and pounce on it, This was the only way I could get him to eat necks for a while. Now he "plays" with them on his own before eating them. My Scotty (aliens are going to jump out of my food and eat me/there's a bomb in there weirdo), on the other hand, still has to be encouraged to eat and told he's a "good boy for eating his dinner" when he looks up or he stops eating and stares at his meal like its coming after him again.


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## Donna Little (May 31, 2011)

God, all 10 of my dogs eat every meal like it's gonna be their last. Slowing down would be welcome around here. I do see what you mean though and he does look worried about eating. 
Years ago I noticed one of my Dachshunds kind of paw at her mouth a few times but then she stopped so I really didn't think much about it. A couple of days later I caught her pawing again so I dug around in her mouth but didn't find anything. She let me really get in there and feel around too so I figured she couldn't possibly have anything stuck in there. 
This happened off and on for about a week. Really nothing to even seem concerned about though. One morning she was eating and suddenly stopped and started pawing like crazy at her face. I just picked her up and took her to the vet, told them what she was doing and told them to please give her mouth and face a good once over. They did and came up with nothing. The next day she started whimpering and pawing again and I took her back, made them sedate her and DIG for something. The poor girl had about a 3 inch shard of bone that had cut into her gums so deeply it was completely surrounded by gums, alongside her top teeth. You couldn't see the bone at all, just the cut. (It was something I guess she found in the yard because it was long before I was feeding raw.) Compared to her mouth it was huge. It was starting to get infected and I guess it just kept cutting into her gums and was becoming really painful. I was horrified that it had obviously been stuck in her mouth for almost 2 weeks!
Anyhow, maybe he has some sort of sensitivity or heaven forbid something hiding in there. Either way, I think I'd cut his bony food up smaller to see how he does with that. And dig around in there a little more.
And of course I have to add that he's so absolutely gorgeous!! Hope he gets past this and is chomping away again soon!


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

my take, and i'm not a behaviouralist, so take with a grain of salt.

when my malia doesn't want to do something, she does the exact same 'dance.'...but with shorter legs.

it's not that she's afraid. she doesn't want it. 

even when i say 'go eat'...she'll turn around, give it a look or a lick and then leave.

i let her. and leave it there for fifteen minutes and then pick it up.

she gets it the next meal.

she does eat it when she's hungry. chicken doesn't seem to be her favourite and why should it be considering she gets all kinds of other better good ies.

she does the same dance with fish, too.

tough love for sako. just my opinion.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

Celt said:


> My boys can be weird and rather finicky <sigh> Have you tried to make bone in meals into a "game"? With my Blaise, I use to "make" the chicken necks cluck, "walk" and hide (placed it under a towel) so he could "chase" and pounce on it, This was the only way I could get him to eat necks for a while. Now he "plays" with them on his own before eating them. My Scotty (aliens are going to jump out of my food and eat me/there's a bomb in there weirdo), on the other hand, still has to be encouraged to eat and told he's a "good boy for eating his dinner" when he looks up or he stops eating and stares at his meal like its coming after him again.


i want the video of you playing 'chicken' and 'clucking'.


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## chowder (Sep 7, 2008)

Rocky actually acts very similar to that with whole chicken quarters. He never has liked to chew them. I started to comprimise by cutting the leg off so it was in two pieces but he would still take forever and chew and chew and walk around for awhile staring at the pieces in the yard. Today it was raining out and I really wanted him to eat it out of a bowl, so I cut it into 4 manageable pieces for him. He stood over his pan and ate it right up (chewing and chewing so carefully until every bone was mush) and then afterwards came over and snuggled me with a big grin on his face like "thank you for finally cutting my meat!". Yet he will chew a whole turkey drumstick without a problem. 

Maybe there are some dogs who just can't stand to chew chicken and Sako is one of them?


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## riddick4811 (Nov 2, 2011)

Does Piper or Wilson have any food aggression? Maybe some competition might make him eat? But seeing the way he is, he'd probably just let them take it. 

My dogs all eat together and if they walked off like that, their food would be gone when they got back. I watched my Aunt's Dalmatian one time and he was used to picking at his food all day. It took about 3 days and he learned, I put it down, he ate it, or it wasn't there when he came back.


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## Celt (Dec 27, 2010)

magicre said:


> i want the video of you playing 'chicken' and 'clucking'.


Sorry, but nope. I'll keep my craziness inside my home. The world really doesn't need to be exposed to the lunacy.


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## kady05 (Jul 29, 2011)

Thanks everyone for the compliments on him  This is him doing his "thing" yesterday at the show:










And why I can't do the tough love thing just yet. Have another show in June, can't have him drop any weight!

He may be one that just.. doesn't want to chew stuff. Just so strange to have it randomly start after he had no problems whatsoever. I have video evidence (anyone should be able to view these):

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10100833299259082

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10100632387587682


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## kady05 (Jul 29, 2011)

riddick4811 said:


> Does Piper or Wilson have any food aggression? Maybe some competition might make him eat? But seeing the way he is, he'd probably just let them take it.
> 
> My dogs all eat together and if they walked off like that, their food would be gone when they got back. I watched my Aunt's Dalmatian one time and he was used to picking at his food all day. It took about 3 days and he learned, I put it down, he ate it, or it wasn't there when he came back.


Piper can get snarky, and would just go push Sako right out of the way if I let her inside while he was still eating (if I didn't interfere, obviously). I can 99% guarantee that if I did that, he'd just walk away and wouldn't care.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

i doubt if it would take more than a meal or two.


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## xchairity_casex (Oct 8, 2011)

Yup,usually when Cesar acts like that with food ive already set down, i pick it up and take it away if he wont touch it and he usually eats it within the next few days.
but with Cesar, like i say sometimes it really seems like its digging his throat as it goes down, so i try to cut alot of the meat off the bone,feed the meat seperately from teh bone so he is not trying to chew bone while swolling emat and acedentally swallow bone too. that seems to help a good deal.


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## kady05 (Jul 29, 2011)

magicre said:


> i doubt if it would take more than a meal or two.


Not risking it right now  If he's still doing it in a couple months when show season slows down, then sure. But right now if I look at him wrong, he drops weight.

For now I guess I'll just either do the bone in ground stuff, or try feeding even smaller bone in pieces that don't overwhelm him.


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## kady05 (Jul 29, 2011)

So this morning he had another chicken quarter (well, the leg portion), and ate it just fine. Didn't even hesitate.

Strange little dog.


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## SaharaNight Boxers (Jun 28, 2011)

He is gorgeous!

And wow, don't you just love him. I know what you mean about dropping weight though. Right now since Dukes on kibble if he doesn't get enough for even just a day or two he drops weight and it looks like his spine is going to go through his skin. Have you thought about maybe excirsising him more to make him hungrier maybe?


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## kady05 (Jul 29, 2011)

SaharaNight Boxers said:


> He is gorgeous!
> 
> And wow, don't you just love him. I know what you mean about dropping weight though. Right now since Dukes on kibble if he doesn't get enough for even just a day or two he drops weight and it looks like his spine is going to go through his skin. Have you thought about maybe excirsising him more to make him hungrier maybe?


Thank you 

Yeah he's okay, I guess LOL. 

He's actually my highest energy dog.. constantly running around the house with his ball. Generally, we (well, they do, I don't) run 3-4mi. a few times a week at the park. I'm not sure I'd want to do more than that with him at this point.

Tomorrow is turkey neck day, so we'll see how it goes..


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