# Orijen LBP to Acana Wild Prairie



## tarikakleh (Aug 5, 2009)

I have a 4 month old Lab, about 42lbs. His stool has been very loose for over 2 weeks now, I had him checked for parasites and he was clean. 

I really don't want to change from Orijen LBP, but I feel I'm out of options. I tried reducing his portions since I heard overfeeding may result in loose stools, but still no change.

Would you recommend Acana Wild Prairie (I am thinking about this because it has the lowest Calcium quantities of the Grain-free Acana options), why or why not?

If not, what recommendations can you make.


P.S. I've been reading through the forumns on this site as well as others, but it seems, the more I read, the more difficult it is to decide.

Thanks.


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## SaltyDog (Mar 10, 2010)

I would add a little bit of canned pumpkin to the diet. Like a spoonful per feeding.

I would also look into getting a digestive enzyme at the very least....such as 
Prozyme or Garden of Life Omegazyme. There are a ton of them out there.

A product called Wholistic Canine Complete has digestive enzymes in it and is also a whole foods supplement. An absolutely fantastic compliment to ANY feeding. Completely natural without ANY synthetics.


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## luvMyBRT (Mar 8, 2010)

I have been doing a lot of research on LBP kibbles lately.

How much have you been feeding him? How long has he been eating the Orijen? It is possible that the Orijen is just too rich for him. 

The only other two that I know of to recommed to you are Horizon Large Breed Puppy and Orijen 6 Fish.

I have also heard of people adding canned pumpkin to their dogs diet to help firm up their stools.

I am sure someone will be along with some more advice....:smile:


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## SaltyDog (Mar 10, 2010)

saraj2878 said:


> It is possible that the Orijen is just too rich for him.
> 
> The only other two that I know of to recommed to you are Horizon Large Breed Puppy and Orijen 6 Fish.
> 
> :



A word of caution....Orijen 6 Fish, in my opinion, is a lot richer than LBP.


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## luvMyBRT (Mar 8, 2010)

^^^^ You're probably right.
I'm just trying to suggest foods where I know the calcium/phosphorus percentages are in an acceptable range. Orijen shows the min. and max. for these, while Acana does not. If you decide to go with Acana you may want to contact them to find out the max. values.


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## sal101011 (Jan 17, 2010)

both Orijen LBP and Wild Prairie are chicken based, I would switch over to Grasslands or Pacifica, maybe your pooch doesnt do well on chicken. Try lamb or fish based


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## SaltyDog (Mar 10, 2010)

sal101011 said:


> both Orijen LBP and Wild Prairie are chicken based, I would switch over to Grasslands or Pacifica, maybe your pooch doesnt do well on chicken. Try lamb or fish based



Grasslands is to high in calcium for his lab pup. Pacifica would be fine though.


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## buddy97 (Mar 29, 2010)

SaltyDog said:


> Grasslands is to high in calcium for his lab pup. Pacifica would be fine though.


remember, Acana only lists the minimum Ca values for their grain free foods.

i emailed them last year for the max Ca values...all three.. Grasslands, Prarie, and Pacifica are right at 2% or higher.

i would not feed any of them to a large breed puppy.


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## tarikakleh (Aug 5, 2009)

First off, I want to thank you all for your responses, this forum is a wealth of information!

In my haste to post my concerns, I did leave out a bit of information.



SaltyDog said:


> I would add a little bit of canned pumpkin to the diet. Like a spoonful per feeding.
> 
> I would also look into getting a digestive enzyme at the very least....such as
> Prozyme or Garden of Life Omegazyme. There are a ton of them out there.


We are actually feeding Harvey pumpkin with his diet, 4 tablespoons (instructions indicate 1 tabelspoon per 10lbs, Harvey is 42lbs). We also have him on Prozyme, 1/4 teaspoon with each meal. Both for about 1 week now with no results.



saraj2878 said:


> How much have you been feeding him? How long has he been eating the Orijen?


We were feeding him about 5 cups per day, slightly lower than the low side of the recommended rations on the bag. We have reduced this to about 4 cups total per day.

Harvey has been on Orijen LBP since he was 8 weeks, we took 10 days to wean him off of SD, in 10% increments.

*edit - his poop has never been solid, at best around the 75 rating from that poop chart on this site. But as of late, it has been between the 0 and 25 rating. _ I apologize in advance if you decide to reference the chart after this message!_


buddy97 said:


> remember, Acana only lists the minimum Ca values for their grain free foods.
> 
> i emailed them last year for the max Ca values...all three.. Grasslands, Prarie, and Pacifica are right at 2% or higher.
> 
> i would not feed any of them to a large breed puppy.


You are right, I did not see any max values for Ca. Like you, I did send them an email requesting the max value of Ca for the Pacifica flavor, following the advise from sal101011 by going with a food that has a different source as the primary protein.

So if Acana is not going to work due to the omission of max Ca levels, what options would you recommend I explore?


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## BRule (Apr 20, 2010)

I think you may be feeding him too much. If he was my dog I would cut him back to 3 cups and see what that does. Orijens website shows 3 - 3 3/4 cups.


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## luvMyBRT (Mar 8, 2010)

How is his weight? Can you easily feel his ribs?
I am wondering if you may be feeding too much still. If it were me, I would even feed a little less, maybe even 2 or 3 cups a day and see if that helps. 

As far as other foods options you could give Orijen 6 Fish a try. I know the calcium/phosphorus levels are okay. However, as Saltydog did mention, it may be pretty rich. 

Another food to look at could be Horizon Large Breed puppy food. While, it is still chicken based it is grain inclusive. It could be that the grain free Orijen is too rich for Harvey and the little bit of grain in Horizon could help. Just a suggestion....

There are also all the Natura brands (Innova, Karma, Healthwise) that are/used to be awesome. However, they have just been bought out by Proctor & Gamble, so I am a bit warry of recommending these foods since I don't know how their quality will hold up.

Unfortunalty, there aren't a lot of quality large breed kibbles out there right now. I'm in the same boat. :smile:


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## tarikakleh (Aug 5, 2009)

I will bring his food down to 3 cups a day and see how that works out... I'll let you guys know the results. How soon should I expect to see results if this turns out to be the resolution?

If this fails, I'll probably go with the a smaller bag of the 6 Fish, and hope the issue is with the protein source and not the "richness".

If need be, I will explore the foods that were mentioned, hopefully things pan out positively with Natura. 

Thanks again!


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## LuckyD (Dec 28, 2009)

*Acana Pacifica*

In regards to Acana Pacifica - no complaints here. I have a 6 mo. old Chessie that's been on it since he was 8 weeks old.

Gave Champion a call in Feb and just did again today. Both times they told me the following: 

Acana Pacifica has: (a)

Calcium Max 1.7

Phosphourous Max 1.4

All d' Best,

MD


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## buddy97 (Mar 29, 2010)

LuckyD said:


> In regards to Acana Pacifica - no complaints here. I have a 6 mo. old Chessie that's been on it since he was 8 weeks old.
> 
> Gave Champion a call in Feb and just did again today. Both times they told me the following:
> 
> ...


someone just posted an email from champion regarding this. the email made it sound like champion only really knew the minimum Ca levels and were estimating the maximum values based on what they expect the range from minimum to maximum to be. however, ive seen plenty of dog foods where the spread between minimum and maximum Ca levels is .8%.

id prefer they actually verify that they have cmeasured the max values and post them on their bags and/or site.

here is the email i was referring to:

_Thank you for your email, I apologize for the delay.

I sent your question to our nutritionist because I did not have the information on hand, and I wanted to be able to give you an accurate answer. The following is the information I was given.

We don’t actually list the maximum level for ACANA formulas* but typically it would be a range of about 0.3%. So if the minimum level is 1.4%, the max would typically be 1.7%.* During the course of a run the calcium levels will fluctuate a little because we use fresh fish in substantial amounts. Fresh Fish is an unprocessed ingredient and does vary from one tub of fish to another slightly._

that sounds like a bit of guess work going on. i got an email from champion last fall indicating the levels of the three acana grainless varieties to all be right at or just above 2%. hopefully the 1.7 is an accurate number.


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## SaltyDog (Mar 10, 2010)

For reference on a feeding guide for you.....my 59lb 9 month old Weimeraner eats only 3 cups a day.

My puppy is 12lbs heavier than your pup and eats 1 cup less. Perfect stools. Prozyme will be effective if you are feeding an appropriate amount for your puppy based on weight :smile:

Also, unfortunately, this food just may not work for you :frown:. Every dog is different. A lot of people praise Wellness.....my dogs looked and acted like complete junk on this food.

As you already mentioned, Acana Wild Praire may be the ticket. I don't feel this is a downgrade in any way.


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