# Is it wrong?



## Makovach (Jan 24, 2012)

Is it wrong to put the coupler on Nalah and Tucker so they are together? The reason behind doing this would be that when I call Nalah to come to me, she does and in turn, that would make Tucker come as well. The trainer I was working with was advising that I do this because when Tucker gets used to getting the treats, he will keep coming to me with Nalah and eventually on his own.

Last Friday Tyrone and I had Tucker and Bridget and the park working on recalls. Tucker came to each of us almost every time, but he was fallowing Bridget. If there is no other dog, he isn't interested in fallowing me and it is harder to get the behavior I want. I'm trying to make all of my training more positive and reward based. Rather than the harsh corrective measures I was taught originally.


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## Maxy24 (Mar 5, 2011)

I'd be afraid that Tucker would be able to prevent Nalah from getting to you if he chooses to stay put, thus weakening Nalah's recall. If Tucker comes when other dogs run to you he may simply be learning to follow other dogs, but have no idea he's being rewarded for coming to you. it's not "wrong" and you could certainly give it a try, but I wouldn't have high hopes. It could also cause issues as far as running and playing go, not sure how easy that is with a coupler as they are mainly just designed for on leash walks.

Has Tucker learned to obey the come command in the house? How about the yard? When training a recall make getting to you awesome and and fun, don't be boring, coming should be exciting. Call come and then run away as he comes towards you and reward when he gets to you after chasing you. Use it during games of tug where you have the dog sit or lie down and then you back up and call him to come to continue tugging. At the park make sure you call randomly, not just when you need to retrain him or take him home. 99% of the time you call him to come it should be a reward and release. Dogs ignore come commands in the park because they are doing something fun and think that coming means the end of fun, you must show them that that is not the case. Coming means you get an awesome reward and get to continue doing whatever you were doing. 

Until his recall is much better I would not allow him off leash, buy a long line. Only after he's really good at coming when called can he be off. Every time he is able to ignore the command the word becomes weaker, meaningless. At least with the long line you can reel him in, he can't continue sniffing/playing/whatever and be rewarded for ignoring the command.


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## Makovach (Jan 24, 2012)

Maxy24 said:


> I'd be afraid that Tucker would be able to prevent Nalah from getting to you if he chooses to stay put, thus weakening Nalah's recall. If Tucker comes when other dogs run to you he may simply be learning to follow other dogs, but have no idea he's being rewarded for coming to you. it's not "wrong" and you could certainly give it a try, but I wouldn't have high hopes. It could also cause issues as far as running and playing go, not sure how easy that is with a coupler as they are mainly just designed for on leash walks.
> 
> Has Tucker learned to obey the come command in the house?*No *
> 
> ...


Reply above in red.


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## Maxy24 (Mar 5, 2011)

I wonder what he dislikes so much about being on leash, is it not something he ever got used to when young? That complicates things since you need to exercise him and off leash is your only good option. 


Perhaps try teaching a very strong hand target behavior and use that instead.


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## creek817 (Feb 18, 2012)

I was going to say some of the things that Maxy said, but since those aren't working for you....I don't see anything wrong with coupling them. Hunt clubs nearly always couple young hounds to older ones, and the older ones teach the young ones what to do. It's been working very well for generations. Certainly worth a try! As long as Nalah doesn't mind dragging him around haha!


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

We use a coupler with adults and puppies all the time and it works great but he sounds a bit much right this moment. I would work come's in the house way more and once he is not so recalcitrant then put the coupler on. If he will follow her lead then you have a good situation but if he prevents her from obeying then you have two backsliding dogs. It is also stressful for the trained dog to be withheld from obeying by the other dog and could result in a snap or bite from frustration. Do a little more one on one and then give it a go. That's what I would do. I am pretty tough on recalls though so if you want some more ideas PM me and I would be glad to share.


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## Celt (Dec 27, 2010)

IF you have a really "strong", excellently trained dog then coupling isn't a bad way to go. But, you will need to know for certain that if the "trainee" becomes a little bullheaded that the "mentor" dog is able to "force" the issue. Up to "dragging" the "trainee" along and both dogs need to have the personality that doesn't "lash out" in frustration. I have used coupling a few times, it can work wonders but I've also seen it fail spectacularly.
Have you tried changing the "command". Come is a "sharp" sound, maybe it's too "harsh" sounding to him. Oh, have you tried squatting down with your arms slightly spread like your asking for a hug from a timid child when you call him. Does he like jumping on you?


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## Makovach (Jan 24, 2012)

Celt said:


> IF you have a really "strong", excellently trained dog then coupling isn't a bad way to go. But, you will need to know for certain that if the "trainee" becomes a little bullheaded that the "mentor" dog is able to "force" the issue. Up to "dragging" the "trainee" along and both dogs need to have the personality that doesn't "lash out" in frustration. I have used coupling a few times, it can work wonders but I've also seen it fail spectacularly.
> Have you tried changing the "command". Come is a "sharp" sound, maybe it's too "harsh" sounding to him. Oh, have you tried squatting down with your arms slightly spread like your asking for a hug from a timid child when you call him. Does he like jumping on you?


He is not allowed to jump on people. I don't know what it is, but Liz had some great advice and I'm going to give it a shot. We will see how this goes.

Thanks everyone! I will keep you updated.


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## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

Has Tucker learned to obey the come command in the house?
*No *
Before attempting to teach him to come outside I would get him really good on it in the house. Even just in one room so there aren't many distractions. Then expand to the rest of the house. Then outside.

How about the yard?
* We have no yard. There for it makes it even harder. They do a lot of their free time at the park or pond to really burn off energy.* 

When training a recall make getting to you awesome and and fun, don't be boring, coming should be exciting. 
*It doesn't matter what I do. I can be silly as can be, have his toys, have treats, walk away from him, he just lies down. On leash, he will not recall 99% of the time he will just lie down. Then it gets to where if you want him to come to you, you have to pull his dead weight.*
Personally, what I would do is just drag his arse over to you anyways. Invest in a harness so you aren't dragging him by his neck. He is a big boy. He has legs. He is just being stubborn. Don't just haul him over to you but don't let lying down defeat you either. My dalmatian would do the same thing. When she didn't want to do something she would just drop where she was at. Usually on walks. When she would do this I would just keep walking like she had done nothing wrong. She figured out that she could either use her legs and get a yummy treat for doing so or be dragged along. Now, don't mistake me to mean that I think you should just mercilessly drag him around! What I am saying is that he has legs and he can choose to use them. My dal would let me make it about 5 steps before she would give me an "Ugh, fine!" kind of look and get back up. I hope no one reads this and thinks I drag my dogs around!

Call come and then run away as he comes towards you and reward when he gets to you after chasing you. 
*Coming towards me is not the problem. He will get about 5 foot away and stop. When I run away, he will chase me, but runs past me and keeps going. *

Use it during games of tug where you have the dog sit or lie down and then you back up and call him to come to continue tugging. *We do not encourage tugging, but when we play catch, we have him sit and wait and back up and tell him to come so he can sit in front of us and he will get his ball. He wont budge. *
I have found that playing tug of war can instill a lot of respect in a dog. By engaging in such a natural game to them you can insert your control over the entire game. Buck LOVES to play tug but I maintain control over my toy. He does not get to "win" and walk away with it. I always win with either a "drop it" or a "leave it". Maybe he would really enjoy it and, if he does, that could be his reward for coming when called. The promise of a good game of tug of war has proven to be a big help in motivating Buck to come when called.

At the park make sure you call randomly, not just when you need to retrain him or take him home. 99% of the time you call him to come it should be a reward and release. Dogs ignore come commands in the park because they are doing something fun and think that coming means the end of fun, you must show them that that is not the case. Coming means you get an awesome reward and get to continue doing whatever you were doing. 
*I do this. I call him at random times. I never capture him and go home is he ever does come to me. I always give him treats, but he may come to me 1 out of 100 times. When it is time to go home and I am tiered of trying to catch him, I tell him in a stern voice to sit or down and I go grab his collar. *

Until his recall is much better I would not allow him off leash, buy a long line. Only after he's really good at coming when called can he be off. Every time he is able to ignore the command the word becomes weaker, meaningless. At least with the long line you can reel him in, he can't continue sniffing/playing/whatever and be rewarded for ignoring the command. 
*With Tucker, as soon as he feels pressure on a leash he will sit or lie down. There is no reeling him in, maybe dragging him across the ground. When he is on a lead, he doesn't want to play. He doesn't want to romp around. He doesn't want to sniff. He won't recall to me. He just lies or sits by me unless he is heeling with me. I know the word is becoming weaker, but I can not find one way to get the boy to budge. The only thing that worked was having another dog. When he would come with Bridget, he would sit and wait for his reward. It wasn't as if he was just fallowing her. But on his own, he really doesn't do anything. If you have any more suggestions, by all means feel free to share.*
Buck knows the difference between his show lead and his walking lead. When he sees the walking lead he becomes excited and knows we are about to go out but when he sees his show lead he knows that we are all business and that we are going to practice patterns, stacking, etc. One is bright orange and the other is black. They can tell the difference. You might just need to teach him that the long line means playtime so that he becomes willing to romp and play with that leash on. Let him drag it around the house for a while.



These suggestions are merely things I would attempt in your situation. Buck isn't fond of coming when called either so I feel your pain.


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