# Hold my hand please? ;)



## FurMom1089 (Apr 22, 2012)

Hi there, I've had a strong interest in natural pet care for a long time. But only recently have started aggressively researching again.

Currently I've been experimenting with my younger dog and kitty *my older dog lives with my dad for now* I bought and have been reading the book scared poopless  found it at like 2am and it seemed like a good idea lol, I love it so far  

I'm trying to slowly make my way to raw feeding *ot... my friggin cat just ate a rubber band...seriously??* Rilee is getting a cup and a half dry kibble, wellness brand, hes been grain free since oct and ive been making my way through several brands and flavors, hes been on wellness for about 2 months now, EVERYONE remarks how soft and touchable he is and how thick and fluffy his coat it * short haired dog right?* But his breath reeeeeeks, and at being slightly over a year old, has teeth staining and mild tarter??? wtf, I brush his teeth now twice a day, its not doing anything for his breath, but his teeth are almost glow in the dark white  but theres still the tarter on the canines and molars, albeit its getting better, but u know I feel like I'm pulling a string one way by brushing, then I feed them and I pull the string back, never making true progress, and bad breath means theres still bacteria I assume from sugar or whatever else...

So recently he has been getting wet food mixed with the kibbles, he gets 3/4 kibble, and roughly a half can maybe less of wet mixed, twice a day. I read my labels there too so been stickig to TotW and merricks *although after browsing on here today found maybe I shouldn't go there?* I wasn't impressed with blue...I'm very close to ordering stuff online, but then again, this is just a stepping stone so why bother??

I also add probios, and NatureVet Naturals All-In-One supplement *my cat gets both of these too and likes it also* and turmeric, And I throw in a half cup water to make everything mix better, I'm still in the first 3 weeks of the supplements and wet, but the supplements were started a week or so before adding wet, and I'm excited to say he kept his poo together!!! Recently he has had explosive poo, and even had an accident inside!!! *beyond yucky...carpet...* but hes been pretty good for the past 2 weeks, his gas is even improved and he started to shed his winter coat finally, so lots of brushing going on between him and the cat lol...

So, my question is, now that he seems to have the flora to handle new food *he gets the same kibble, but a diff wet protein every day* How much longer till I switch him to all wet food, and then from there, how do I start adding raw, and can I continue to feed the supplements? And tummy fillers... On the tiny amount that he gets fed today he is maintaining an ideal body condition, but I swear if he gets so much as an extra treat, he might get fat, hes got a lean body condition but fat coverage over the ribs, and is super muscly, as is his breed... But dang it hes hungry!!!! He can and will eat as much as possible if I let him, so I try to offer more chews, like small pig ears, bully sticks, smoked shoulder bones, it has to be something relatively soft though as hes got a soft mouth and does not like crunching through hard stuff *which is why I'm sure he'll love chicken necks* 
So, what kinds of tummy fillers are there that I can offer him that don't amount to a whole lot of calories? Or will the raw fill him up better? The foster puppy I have right now gets twice as much food as Ry, and always eats till hes full, and is very lean, you can sorta see his ribs and you can feel them

My source of meat for them will be from a coworker with a farm, he has chickens and rabbits,I have another friend who has ducks, and then theres the local butcher whom I haven't spoken to yet but will.
I do plan to continue feeding veggies, but they will be mostly froze before feeding, I'm living with some friends currently so I'm not sure how able to cook things I will be, so maybe ways around that?

Also my kitty and I have slight disagreements on what she should eat lol, she gets wet twice a day and has access to 2 different dry foods, blue and 4-health, I often dump the blue on day 2, she just doesnt seem to like it, and primarily only eats the wet with her supplements, she is finally putting weight on and filling out, but idk, she looks scruffy right now, since brushing most of her winter coat out she feels slick but not nearly as soft and fluffy, but has an amazing shiny sheen and no tarter on her teeth, shes about 3 now. id like to get her on raw as well, thinking about replacing her wet with raw and keeping the dry for a snack to munch if she wants. She hasnt passed a solid stool in a few weeks, this has me worried, clearly something is wrong with what she is eating

ok, sorry to throw so much garbled info at ya at once!!! I'm hoping to do something better for my 13 yr old once I get all this sorted out, he gets upset tummy easily so has been getting pumpkin, turmeric, and coconut oil mixed with his meals, but my dad admitted to not even throwing that into his food sometimes, which is so annoying, I took the time to make individual cups of it so all he had to do was dump the cup on top of his kibble.. grr.. I need to get my own place soon so I can get him back and start getting his feed on track, also left a measuring cup in there so he'd only get 2 cups a day, cant even use the friggin thing!! *grrrrawrrrr.. rant over .. sorta lol* sry fat dogs, esp fat senior dogs make me sick its like shoving them towards early death..


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Hi and welcome - why don't you just go directly to raw?

The wet food won't help his teeth. If you are doing wet for dental reasons, there is no need to. The only thing that cleans their teeth are bones (regardless of what the advertisements say).

You get around cooking things by not cooking  And dogs don't need veggies. 

Have you seen this site?
How to Get Started | Prey Model Raw


We will hold your hand


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

Quickly for the cat....don't ditch the canned, it's the only thing(out of processed foods) that cats should be fed. I would suggest ditching the dry, adding in chunks of raw what ever you can and get her over to eating a majority (or full if at all possible!) raw!!:wink:


As far as the dog....well if it was me I would ditch the canned, kibble, everything, grab a couple whole chickens from the supermarket(or if you can get backs or quarters) and start in raw!!:thumb:
He more then likley won't need any of the supliments....and it'll be easier on you and he if you hold off on re-adding them till he has at least been on raw for a few months.....but more then likley he won't even need them!!:becky:

Check out Dedicated to proper carnivore nutrition - Prey Model Raw Feeding for Dogs & Cats for more info!!:thumb:


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## wolfsnaps88 (Jan 2, 2012)

I would start the dog on raw cold turkey. The links the other people gave are a good place to read about how to transition. Chicken is typically easier to digest with smaller, porous bones which make it easier to transition a dogs stomach to. 

It is good that you have some meat sources already 

Some dogs take to raw right away. Some don't. You will have to see what your dog does. If he refuses to eat raw, everyone around here will probably agree that the tough love routine usually works. If he doesn't eat, pick up his food and put it in the fridge and try again next time. A healthy adult dog will not starve itself. 


As far as the cat (I hope he didn't really eat the rubberband? I swear I am constantly taking crap out of my cats mouth too) You can not use tough love with a cat. They have to eat or they have medical problems. I am trying this method as well. Phase out all the kibble and only feed canned. Then, start sneaking in small pieces of raw meat into the canned. Then, slowly start phasing out the canned. The cat might take a while to get onto raw but I think the dog will catch on quicker. 


And welcome to the forum. We love pics here.


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## Kat (Jul 12, 2011)

I agree with Scarlett O', keep feeding the cats canned. Cats dont have a high thirst drive and are pretty much always slightly dehydrated, dont want any bladder stones or crystals forming.


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## FurMom1089 (Apr 22, 2012)

wow that was fast!! 
Thank you for the speedy responses!!

I'll talk to my friend with the ducks, he also has chickens, albeit his birds are large lol, buff orpingtons and white pekins *but i think hes got mallards and guinea fowl as well* see if I can't grab a couple fresh ones from him... I'm sure I could get Rilee to eat raw pretty easily, hes very playful so a couple rounds of fetch and keep away instinct will hopefully do its thing  but I'm worried about ever feeding a feathered bird as at the farm I work at we have 2 pet chickens... also furred rabbit, I have a kitty who looks a LOT like a rabbit in color, and also at the farm there are several kitties, and I'm proud of Rilee for not being a chaser, will eating a furred rabbit make him more likely to track the rabbit scent in the field, and eventually connect cats in the small furry and edible category? I don't think there are many if any rabbits n the current area, but just kinda a what if thing...


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## FurMom1089 (Apr 22, 2012)

kk on the Misha subject, shes a pretty good drinker, they also have an electrolyte solution available at all times right next to their water, Misha visits the "blue water" more often than the dogs who usually sip it once in a while, Misha visits it several times a day before she drinks regular water, I keep it very diluted, but because of her potty issues I like her to have it available... if I did it to the pkg requirements ill bet it would contribute to the problem... who knows it might even now... idk...


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## wolfsnaps88 (Jan 2, 2012)

Now that my dogs eat venison and have seen deer butchered in our yard, they are more keen to flush them out and follow scent trails. How obedient is your dog? I keep my less obedient dog on a leash when we walk in case we do come across tasty moving things. 

I wouldn't worry about your kitty that looks like a rabbit. Dogs use their nose more than anything and he will know she is a cat and not to eat her. 

I am not sure about feeding feathered chickens to your dog and then having pet chickens. I will get chickens some day but have no idea what my dogs will do. I think this one also comes down to an obedience thing. Does your dog know the leave it command?

Have you considered feeding plucked chickens first? This way he will understand that it is food. Then graduate him to feathered ones? Just a thought.


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## Tobi (Mar 18, 2011)

looks like everybody else covered the info you need, We used to have a cat with Tobi, and we had to rehome him because he was too rough with him, and somebody was going to get an eye out, or a head or spine crushed... best for kitty and our nerves, it was not due to the correlation between fluffy kitty and a flavorful little bunny. They often ate in the same room raw, and they were quite content. :thumb: 

ETA: The rabbits we fed while we had Zeus and they were fur "in tact" no connection was every established with him, he still chases fluffies outside just as he did before raw. He and zeus were always at each even before 6 months old when we put him on raw.


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## FurMom1089 (Apr 22, 2012)

Poor Ry guy is siiick today.... :'( He woke me up at 6 because he kept trying to get as close as possible to me as I slept, what woke me up was his shaking and panting, I said his name and he swiveled around and layed on top of my neck and head, gripping with his paws, I got him outside and he had explosive poo, he squatted for about 5 mins, then wiped his tush on the wet grass... 5/10 minuets after bringing him in, he peed on the floor, sooooooo not like him!!! so I scoled him gently and put him out for a lil bit while I cleaned it up... Now hes lying on top of my feet in bed shivering, I've got a blanket over him and its helping, and hes not panting anymore, but I'm skipping breakfast... again.... he skipped it yesterday too and only got lunch and din, that was clearly too much for him :/ and as an after dinner snack he got white rice,cooked chicken with sauteed green/red peppers from my din.... poor lil guy :/ I'm still gunna pick up stuff to start him today, but im gunna mix pumpkin in with it to try and help, maybe remidy some pepto, pretty sad I actually have a gal of it on hand because this happens sooooo often!!!!!


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

the probiotics you're giving are not a preparation for raw to give them decent gut flora, although it can't hurt and could possibly help.

raw gives beneficial gut flora; and it's something over time, as you move further and further away from processed foods and treats.

pumpkin is not going to be appropriate once raw is started, so that item is a throw away now or you eat it. 

i would recommend reading the link you were given....

and then a fast and a switch. that's it. 

why are you feeding electrolyte water? 

i would start out with unfeathered chickens first., as wolfsnaps suggested. 

it's recommended to start out easy and then work up to more complicated.....and don't get confused that duck and chicken are interchangeable....duck are game birds. chickens aren't. chicken is a more gentle way to start....game birds are for later on.

personally, i'm going to suggest you do not give pepto nor pumpkin. they are not appropriate. you're giving your dogs too many supps and peppers? no.....if your dog is not feeling well, what you're feeding is simply not going to help.

chicken broth. no salt. liver broth. no salt. some slippery elm bark. that's it. 

you'll marvel at the day you don't have to feed these diarrhea stoppers. right now, once you get them all on a species appropriate diet, slowly of course, they will come around.


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## KittyKat (Feb 11, 2011)

FurMom1089 said:


> Poor Ry guy is siiick today.... :'( He woke me up at 6 because he kept trying to get as close as possible to me as I slept, what woke me up was his shaking and panting, I said his name and he swiveled around and layed on top of my neck and head, gripping with his paws, I got him outside and he had explosive poo, he squatted for about 5 mins, then wiped his tush on the wet grass... 5/10 minuets after bringing him in, he peed on the floor, sooooooo not like him!!! so I scoled him gently and put him out for a lil bit while I cleaned it up... Now hes lying on top of my feet in bed shivering, I've got a blanket over him and its helping, and hes not panting anymore, but I'm skipping breakfast... again.... he skipped it yesterday too and only got lunch and din, that was clearly too much for him :/ and as an after dinner snack he got white rice,cooked chicken with sauteed green/red peppers from my din.... poor lil guy :/ I'm still gunna pick up stuff to start him today, but im gunna mix pumpkin in with it to try and help, maybe remidy some pepto, pretty sad I actually have a gal of it on hand because this happens sooooo often!!!!!


This happens often? Either the food you are giving him now is upsetting him or he's possibly getting some sort of parasite/worm of sorts... I would fast for a day (at least half a day) to clear out his system and then give plain chicken backs (you want to give enough to cover about 2% of their weight). I would even give some Diatomaceous Earth (2 tablespoons for 7 days) - which you would need to mix with something (greek yogurt) and grapefruit seed extract (2 drops for every five pounds of body weight. Two times per day for 5 - 7 days - this also has to be mixed with food). I would also suggest slippery elm bark for the upset stomach. 

I would cut out the pepto, rice, pumpkin and all that. Just give chicken backs. No skin and not much fat.


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## FurMom1089 (Apr 22, 2012)

I planned to get chicken today  I havent started him on anything yet, and he hasnt eaten a thing today.

I saw that about the duck and such, just saying I have a source for it later on 

The probios and such, hes been on because he has reoccurring bout of diarrhea, and has for the whole year I've had him, my older dog of 13 is the same way, I'm aware thats not normal, hence why I've been researching a better way 

I know pumpkin is a stool firmer and its worked for my pooches in the past and if something so simple and natural helps them feel more comfortable, then I don't see the harm, but im also still learning...

The electrolyte water is a self serve supplement, like the salt/mineral block for my horses, if they sat down and finished off the bowl every time I made a new batch then I would worry and not offer it, but they sip it once in a while, so again, I don't see the harm in offering something they could potentially find in the wild in a convenient form


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## FurMom1089 (Apr 22, 2012)

KittyKat said:


> This happens often? Either the food you are giving him now is upsetting him or he's possibly getting some sort of parasite/worm of sorts... I would fast for a day (at least half a day) to clear out his system and then give plain chicken backs (you want to give enough to cover about 2% of their weight). I would even give some Diatomaceous Earth (2 tablespoons for 7 days) - which you would need to mix with something (greek yogurt) and grapefruit seed extract (2 drops for every five pounds of body weight. Two times per day for 5 - 7 days - this also has to be mixed with food). I would also suggest slippery elm bark for the upset stomach.
> 
> I would cut out the pepto, rice, pumpkin and all that. Just give chicken backs. No skin and not much fat.



I actually havent given the pumpkin or pepto as of yet, so ok 
that was another question I had forgot I wanted to mention, which was the DE, ty!! and I try to use pesticide sparingly and usually only before or after potential tick contact where I can rinse it off later, he was worm free as of 5 months ago also and hasn't had contact with infected animals or fleas since then, but then again the DE would clear that too if that were the issue...

I got him at 4 months with issues, he was fed retriever brand food and was eating 4+ cups of that a day so I was told, he was on worm treatments for a few months after due to the heavy worm burden and multi species, he was a sick lil boy... I had him on the best food available to me for 5 months *from may till oct* till tsc came to town, I actually work there so hes been corn/wheat/soy free for 6 months *oct till now* and now hes going to go raw which hopefully helps put his body back on track.

I don't yet have a confirmed source for misc. parts that I know of. But I'll head down to the meat market today and see what I can gather, and see about getting the grapefruit seed extract, slippery elm, and yogurt, I know I can get the DE atleast... Still have lots of reading to do today, good thing its going to be rainy all week!

ETA: so 2% of 50# is 1# right? ... yeah.. duh, half 100, half 2... just had to type it out I guess! lol


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## KittyKat (Feb 11, 2011)

FurMom1089 said:


> I planned to get chicken today  I havent started him on anything yet, and he hasnt eaten a thing today.
> 
> I saw that about the duck and such, just saying I have a source for it later on
> 
> ...


Pumpkin is a binder, but it doesn't solve any problems, which is why many people do without. Things like slippery elm bark will help sooth his stomach lining, which is likely rather tender. 

I have a feeling your dogs may have some sort of worm/parasite that they are passing around to each other. 

Nothing wrong with the electrolyte water - but once they are on raw I wouldn't worry about it, they will get the same sort of deal from the meat. It's just an added expense so it's totally up to you, if you like it, keep doing it. We lure course our dogs and we feed tuna water to give them a boost on race days - it's a similar idea. We also feed the tuna as a snack.

Also for the DE - make sure it's food grade. I would treat all of your dogs with it - symptoms or not. Any dogs with runny stool should get the slippery elm bark.


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## Makovach (Jan 24, 2012)

FurMom1089 said:


> ETA: so 2% of 50# is 1# right? ... yeah.. duh, half 100, half 2... just had to type it out I guess! lol


Yes, But if he is a puppy and still growing, you should feed his projected adult weight. My boy weighs 50lbs at 1 yr old, but when grown, I believe he will weigh 65-70lbs. Its better to start off at 1.5% of the projected adult weight and move slowly. Add in a few ounces once he is doing well with the transition. I started my pup off at 2lbs and had horrible problems. I ended up cutting him down to 1/2 lb just to get his gut straightened out. He went through hell because I was rushing with excitement. Slow and steady wins the race.


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## KittyKat (Feb 11, 2011)

FurMom1089 said:


> I actually havent given the pumpkin or pepto as of yet, so ok
> that was another question I had forgot I wanted to mention, which was the DE, ty!! and I try to use pesticide sparingly and usually only before or after potential tick contact where I can rinse it off later, he was worm free as of 5 months ago also and hasn't had contact with infected animals or fleas since then, but then again the DE would clear that too if that were the issue...
> 
> I got him at 4 months with issues, he was fed retriever brand food and was eating 4+ cups of that a day so I was told, he was on worm treatments for a few months after due to the heavy worm burden and multi species, he was a sick lil boy... I had him on the best food available to me for 5 months *from may till oct* till tsc came to town, I actually work there so hes been corn/wheat/soy free for 6 months *oct till now* and now hes going to go raw which hopefully helps put his body back on track.
> ...


lol, I often question my math skills as well. 1lb is what you are looking for. You can break that down to 1/2 lb for each meal. Less food is always better, as you can always slowly add more. Never want cannon butt.
If you have plain yogurt that can work too, sometimes dogs turn their noses up at greek yogurt for whatever reason. Either way I find it just helps cover the taste of the DE and it's a nice treat, and has some of it's own probiotics as well.


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

Congrats on making the switch to raw. I have switched all ages. Literally as we have 7 dogs. I would fast your pup one day offering only broth and slippery elm. hopefully this will clear his gut enough. It doesn't seem as if he is a baby but if 50 pounds is his ideal weight I would start with chicken back with no skin or organ attached at just a bit less than a pound and keep him on slippery elm until he is solid. This should only be a few days to a week. I don't advocate Grape Fruit Seed Extract unless you know he has worms or giardia which if his stools do not firm up within a week to 7 day I would definitely take a sample in to check. For fleas you can add Diatomaceous Earth to his diet but you would have to mix it in something so I would wait on ANY supplements until he is solid. You can apply Diatomaceous Earth topically to your dog, bedding, car and yard to help prevent fleas. I would wait on all oils and yogurt absolutely anything other than his until he has solid stool and you are 100% sure there are no parasites/giardia etc. After he starts transitioning well you can add back his fish oil or coconut oil and some worm prevention. But I would go slow right now and just work on getting his gut into shape. If you were giving pumpkin only because he had diarrhea because of a know issue like anti biotics that would be no problem - but on a more consistent basis it is just covering up the issue instead of fixing what is wrong. We like to fix the problem as it makes your life and your pups life better. I hope this info helps.


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## Makovach (Jan 24, 2012)

Liz is amazing at most anything raw or homeopathic care. She knows her stuff! She is who taught a majority of us what we know and are still learning today!

It also helps to read the Dedicated to proper carnivore nutrition - Prey Model Raw Feeding for Dogs & Cats site from top to bottom. It gives you a lot of input, you will know what to look for and see problems that may occur and its a great guideline resource.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

I think I would start with 1% (1/2 pound) and work up since there are stomach issues already.


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## FurMom1089 (Apr 22, 2012)

poor boy, had to do another potty run, he started shaking again and got "the look" on his face, droopy, but pulled back lips like he wanted to barf, he ran across the yard into the woods and was there for a bit, so ill be taking a stick up there later to poke around... For now hes calm and sleeping, i don't think hes shaking anymore, can't see or feel it anyway. I've never seen him be like this before, but his color is good im gunna check for a temp later... he probably won't be eating anything till tomorrow morning...

I called the local meat market and they don't have necks or anything of the sort, I live in a rural farm community, so while currently I'm stuck I'm sure I'll be at smooth sailing soon, I'm waiting for replies from friends who process their own birds and for them to hook me up with other connections, I don't want to start till I know I can commit to it and have a good source ya know? Looking to get enough for atleast 2 weeks to start, once I move onto a more steady meal cycle itll be easier to find resources, then I'll be able to purchase whole birds and cut em up myself to fit their needs... I have no problems with "processing" animals... its the killing part I can't do lol

And almost forgot, Rilee is very obedient, almost never ignores me, but while at the farm hes kinda off doing his own thing while I'm doing chores/riding ... Their neighbor is a bird farmer, also hopefully my main source, so maybe I'll bring Rilee there for regular training secessions on bird respect lol

At 50# that is probably optimum weight, he could still loose some and not look like death, but gain much more and hed be chunky imo


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

is he getting into things other than food?

have you had a fecal check for his stools?


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## FurMom1089 (Apr 22, 2012)

No, the pups food is closed in the crate when hes finished, so no access, the cats food is highly protected also... unless he ate something outside, that I can't say... As of right now, hes acting normal again, playing etc... He looks less bloated also... Nothin in his poo but poo


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

i think part of your troubles is he's being overfed....the dry and the wet.

plus switching foods often can cause distress to some dogs. 

i have found out the hard way that not all dogs have iron guts.....

pig ears are usually made in china unless you have another source and can also be a reason your dog is so 'sensitive'. 

i would recommend stopping everything, the supplement, the probios and the turmeric and even the coconut oil for now.

once transitioned, he should not need probiotics and when he gets to organs, he won't need a multi vitamin.

starting with chicken, i'd keep him on bony chicken parts for about two weeks and then let's re assess.......he needs to stabilise more than anything.

that means no treats for a bit.....his whole system has to adapt to this new way of eating.

that means he will alter his gut flora and he will strengthen his teeth, jaw, neck muscles, etc....as he gets used to it.

plan on this transition taking six months to a year...if ever i've read about a dog needing to go slowly this one is one of them.


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## FurMom1089 (Apr 22, 2012)

Yeah, I'm thinking slow too :/ Funny, hed been good for almost aweek before today... The people I'm staying with are trying to discourage me from changing his food, sticking to dry, taking away the wet and adding a lot of rice instead... frustrating... I've been their consultant on so many things, I talked them out of SD because they didn't know why their dog was having problems, a couple months after the switch, their dogs problems are gone... go figure...

But yeah, I'll plan on 2/3 weeks on just a 1/2 pound of chicken necks, changing amounts based on his weight reaction a week at a time, then go from there

and nope, his ears are all USA, I checked... He doesnt get any processed treats, or anything from china, and its been about 2 weeks since hes had an ear, and the bag 
i have now is un-opened, but I do see what your saying with no treats


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

according to my calculations, 12 ounces would be fine.....are chicken necks all you can get? can you get backs?


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## FurMom1089 (Apr 22, 2012)

I'm not getting replies from anyone so I'm going to order online instead, I've got enough of his current food for 2/3 more days, I'd hate to have to buy more just to waste it :z I did find an organic place online... found some necks on amazon and cripes that was expensive, almost 40 bucks for 4 necks, but Google is my friend and told me about this place ---> Beyond Organic Grass Fed Meats its organic, grass fed, and pretty inexpensive imo... I emailed them asking questions, and am awaiting a response, what do you think? I'd go with both necks and backs because its available, and perhaps more, I'm gunna poke around a bit more to see what other goodies they have for in the coming months 

Any other sites to recommend? I'm going to continue my search anyhow, but am bookmarking that one


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

try these places:

My Pet Carnivore | Raw dog, cat, and pet food including: tripe, beef, bones, chicken, duck, rabbit, turkey

http://www.hare-today.com/

also, try http://www.omaspride.com/

you're going to start with chicken. you won't need more proteins for at least two to three weeks.

or anything else for that matter.....no treats, no supps. just chicken and bony chicken at that.


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

If you had to you could buy whole chickens and cut the breast meat off for yourself and chunk up the rest in 10 - 12 ounce portions for the dog. If all else fails this is what I would do. No skin fat or organ. Please get your boy on some plain and wholesome chicken and very soon you will see some very nice improvement.


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

wolfsnaps88 said:


> I would *start the dog on raw cold turkey.* The links the other people gave are a good place to read about how to transition. Chicken is typically easier to digest with smaller, porous bones which make it easier to transition a dogs stomach to.
> 
> It is good that you have some meat sources already
> 
> ...


Sorry, but this is flipping hilarious to me. You can't use phrases like this around here! :tongue:


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## FurMom1089 (Apr 22, 2012)

lmao... I read it the right way until u pointed that out, too funny 

I'm exploring those sites as well 

dindin time for me so ill finish reading up after..

Just took him out again, I think the bad stuff is finally out of his system, he still pooed, but only a tiny amount... by morning he should be golden... yeah I want to order something tonight so its here asap!!!


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

Liz said:


> If you had to you could buy whole chickens and cut the breast meat off for yourself and chunk up the rest in 10 - 12 ounce portions for the dog. If all else fails this is what I would do. No skin fat or organ. Please get your boy on some plain and wholesome chicken and very soon you will see some very nice improvement.


I totally agree!
I started all 3 of my boys with hacked up chicken. 
He is, IME, WAY too big to chance necks. Get a whole chicken, hack it up, taking the skin/fat off and also probably some of the breast meat to make it a little more boney(save it all for later!:wink


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## FurMom1089 (Apr 22, 2012)

My older dog I would worry about swallowing stuff. but not Ry, He is a good chewer, shoulda been a masticist *haha anyone? lol* even when given bits of cooked steak, he will chewchewchew I wuv him 

I've been scouting prices and currently my pet carnivore seems like the better out of all ive found on my own etc. so it says 3 lb bags, how many come in those bags just for refrence sake, on the hair today web site it claims in 2lbs for there to be 20 necks, so I assume on average 10 necks per pound? and for the carnivore site, does that include skin or not? the picture implies a clean neck, but the hare today says a clean neck!! I've got the card ready to order but want to be wise about it too 

ETA: My gut tells me to wait and start on the more boney necks to assist him in his poo, I could buy a few whole birds, hack em up, take the backs and freeze the rest for a alter date, but I'd have to buy several it seems, then I'm stuck with a hundred breasts lmao... Then again I could do it until the necks come in also, I'll have to take a stroll around walmart and see if they have anything organic, doubt they will, but ya never know right? Otherwise ill give another call down to the meat market and find out what they have for whole, organic birds... I've also got the kitty to feed lol, so she will likely adore the necks and other edible bits... might have to sprinkle cheese on it though


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

OK - honestly I do not like chicken necks even for my shelties. I would feed whole chicken first. You could take the breast meat for yourself and some meat off the thighs. You could then feed the back, breast, and quarters. The other thing you could do is get a few cornish game hens. They are generally about 24 ounces and you could cut this in half for two days of meals - you would get plenty of bone this way. The necks on both site are skinless which would be great for you cat but chocking hazard aside I think you would do better with the whole ones or cornish game hens. You could even same the extra meat for when you start feeding more boneless than bone. It is nice to just toss out a few chicken chunks you already had in the freezer. My dogs have rarely had chicken necks - usually only when I have a litter of puppies - and even then I feed puppies drummettes and wings instead of necks.


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## FurMom1089 (Apr 22, 2012)

hmm... kk 
I'll keep you posted on the shopping trip tomorrow


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## FurMom1089 (Apr 22, 2012)

So I'm a bit disappointed after my first shopping trip  I brought home 2 cornish hens, everything else was just breast, or some pukey looking quarters *pretty sad when even I wouldn't have eaten them* I'm just going to have to cave and order online...

now, they are currently defrosting, for tomorrow, am I cutting them in half for him? quarters? do I allow him to eat the drumstick bones? I actually work tomorrow, so if I actually lay any eyes on any of the local chicken farmers I'm gunna hit em up for necks and backs... if all else fails and the necks really are too small for him, my kitty will have lots for herself....


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

How big are the CGH? That will be what decides how much you need to hack them up!:smile: I would start him out at 1.5% of his projected adult weight(paw). (PAW x 16 x .015 will tell you how many oz to give him per day.)
As far as the leg bone he will be perfectly fine with it, on CGH I can break their drumstick with just my hands.:wink:


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## FurMom1089 (Apr 22, 2012)

I think the package said 24 oz bird... and do I have to thaw them? just thinking might be easier to cut in half frozen... but my plan was to let them soak in hot water for about a half hr to bring temp up... I didnt want to just leave it on the counter/in the sink


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

no soak in hot water. starts the cooking process.....

soak in cold water.


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## FurMom1089 (Apr 22, 2012)

Oo kk gotcha


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

I leave my(their) meat thawing out in the sink over night. Of course no one has access to the kitchen overnight, so I don't have to worry about midnight snackers!Lol
And yes, more then likely you will wan to thaw it at least a little bit before cutting up, the ones I've gotten have had some organs inside, like whole chickens, so you will want to check for them...and if they are there just throw them in a baggy an freeze for later!:wink:


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## FurMom1089 (Apr 22, 2012)

Well, first meal went better than I thought  I completely skinned it *idk... i had fun doing it lol* then I quartered it, which was my first time doing that  I decided to give him the more bony lower quarter to start, an I'll be on high alert tonight for whining in case he gets tummy burbles...

He lay at my feet while I prepped it... its like he knew lol... he never hovers when I eat or anything, lays down and sleeps, nope this time he stared at me lol...

I had him eat it on a puppy pad, and I held it for him at first as he was like, eyes rolling in bliss, enjoying it lol... I usually have to coax him into eating, his head is down, tail tucked, eyes averted and bulging , he loves food but is veeery submissive about it for some reason... I'm gunna guess thats going to be a thing of the past  

He never hunts for food after eating, just settles down on the bed and sleeps it off... but this time he was in food mode for the first time, I'm being good though, he is only getting the one quarter, and absolutely nothing extra... even if I think a pig ear would make him happier lol *not actually a full pig ear, its just the thicker base of the ear, its like the bag says.. piggy pieces lol*

So.... how long approx, or signs do I look for before I can give him his nightly pig part? lol

also, it came with a, itty bitty neck and liver... kitty noms  I plopped it in her food dish and covered it with wet food... she wasnt impressed at all when i first offered it to her... ill have to check her dish later and find out if she ate around it or not... pfft... cats ...


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

That is awesome!!:biggrin:

Sounds like all went well!:thumb:

I would, however, suggest just handing him the food and leaving him to it....makes it less stressful and more enjoyable!:wink:

For the kitty.....did you cut the neck and live into small chunks? If not I would highly suggest it. Cats are soo use to such small little pieces of kibble that their jaws aren't strong enough to crunch thru anything of value at first....so hacking (and possibly smashing) is really needed by most cats, at least in the beginning.


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## FurMom1089 (Apr 22, 2012)

He kinda moves and circle when he eats lol, using those back chompers, I had to keep sliding the pad with him to keep it off the carpet, may start feeding outside so he can be more independent 

no... I didn't chop it up lol... but I did this morn for breakfast for try #2, mixed in some warm water with her wet too and let the meats leech into the water for a couple minuets.. well, she drank all the water lol.. didn't eat much if any though, but usually she drinks her breakfast, and goes back and nibbles for the afternoon, before dinner I dump whats there, wash it and give her fresh, But with the raw stuff, im only gunna leave it down an hr or so before I either chuck it or fridge it.. whats your opinion on that? too long? its coming from the fridge when I put it down


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## FurMom1089 (Apr 22, 2012)

just watched him do his first all raw poo... tiny solid poo:thumb:... so relieved that his bowl issues seem solved!!! and I figure that poo was just from dinner last night, so to have him especially revert soooo quickly and be ok its testament!!! :biggrin1:


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

when you put down food for the dog, don't move the mat. move the dog to the mat. 

he'll learn to stay.

if the mat is too small, use a bath towel or something that gives him the freedom to move a little bit. 

my pug dances, so he needs that towel.


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

For the dog, like Re said he probably needs something larger. Leo gets a big bath may to eat off....never moves his food, although he will move around the mat!:wink:

For the kitty, along with hacking and probably bashing the bone, I let my girls have their food for a hour, what they haven't eaten gets covered and put back in the fridge. And offered again in a few hours(between 4 and 8, depending on the day) of it has dried out or they drank all the juice I'll add some to it, either by way of homemade broth or meat juice/blood!:thumb:


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

I just make Rebel lay down when he eats inside. He lays down to eat bones anyway - when he's outside he plops down with his bone and stays there and I don't ask him to stay in one spot outside.

I put Snorkels in a bed with a blanket I can wash. When she tries to get out, I put her back. She pretty much stays put now unless she thinks I'm taking her bone away and then she'll try to run.


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## FurMom1089 (Apr 22, 2012)

I tried one more time with the pad, he was better about moving the food to the side of his mouth instead of turning his head waaay around to position it farther back  ... heres something ...strange... I noticed hes, um exposing himself while he eats.... more than a little:twitch: is that just a different way to express nerves?

he doesnt usually do that


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## wolfsnaps88 (Jan 2, 2012)

Dogs "expose themselves" when they are excited or if they sit in a weird position that pushes the penis bone out. I have never heard of a dog letting it all hang out while eating but if he is excited about it, I guess that's normal? Or sitting funny while eating.


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## NewYorkDogue (Sep 27, 2011)

My dog has a full erection when he eats. I used to think it was just because he was excited, but a friend told me about the sitting position that wolfsnap mentioned that can push it out. He eats from a raised eating dish, all of his raw food chucked in there, and he sits while he eats. Fully exposing himself...lol.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

where's donna? LOL

NYDogue.....mateo is exposing himself in your sig pic..now that i've looked. LOL

FurMom.....first off, you're looking at your dog's penis whilst he is eating. isn't that exciting enough for him? 

just teasing, but everyone's right....this is raw food. what's not to be excited about?

i really don't have a good answer, but the door was opened and i simply have to take this topic and run with it. 

plus, i had no internet this morning and this was the first message that popped out? up? at me. 

i think it's great that your pup is now eating on a towel, with or without a semi erection....


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## FurMom1089 (Apr 22, 2012)

lmfao i did open that door lol
I'll blame it on good food and the sit lol

He got to eat outside this afternoon 

I'm headed to my dads for the weekend, i'm dog sitting for a friend and have to do it there lol... But my other dog lives there  I'm gunna see if I can get him eating better  I won't switch him yet, I'm gunna base it off how much kibble hes got left, but in the meantime make sure he'll eat the chicken, then start bagging stuff to make it easier for my dad to feed him  *my dad is very uncooperative with feeding him kibble, he gets 2 cups a day, one morning, one evening, i even put a scoop in there and he thinks its a joke that my geriatric dog is getting fat!!! hes going to kill him :z but ive got more confidence in this method...*

the kitty is still rebelling, I tried again with fresh today and mixed hot water and kibble lol, we'll see  I think im gunna go for something ground for her after the weekend lol


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

HAHA! That's great - at least you know they are enjoying their food!!

I'm glad snorkels is a girl. As excited as she gets over food she'd seem like a pervert.


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## NewYorkDogue (Sep 27, 2011)

magicre said:


> where's donna? LOL
> 
> NYDogue.....mateo is exposing himself in your sig pic..now that i've looked. LOL
> 
> ...


Oh, well, the sig pic is nothing in terms of exposure; we're talking full-on, and fully-expressed, ummm... excitement over blood, meat and bones. Well, what's not to love? 

And Bubba...? Oh, right-- his excitement is expressed through dancing, isn't it?


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

NewYorkDogue said:


> Oh, well, the sig pic is nothing in terms of exposure; we're talking full-on, and fully-expressed, ummm... excitement over blood, meat and bones. Well, what's not to love?
> 
> And Bubba...? Oh, right-- his excitement is expressed through dancing, isn't it?


i think bubba might be a little gay...not that there is anything wrong with that....

i don't think i've ever seen bubba..exposed.

maybe he is asexual...and aspires to be a tibetan monk.


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## wolfsnaps88 (Jan 2, 2012)

Mastiff exposure is SCARY...


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

of course, as things would have it, we came home last night, and there was bubba, after dancing as pugs do....sitting with his penis exposed.

first time i've seen it.

then again, awareness of such things have only recently been brought to my attention. now i'm mesmerised. LOL


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## NewYorkDogue (Sep 27, 2011)

wolfsnaps88 said:


> Mastiff exposure is SCARY...


Hahaha--- exactly! I thought for a nanosecond about posting a photo of his "exposure" while he's tucking into his meals, but, you know.. this is a family forum. Sort of.

No need to scare the children... :twitch:


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

i think it's funny. and probably would have as a child. i still have a child's mind, though, which includes toilet humour. 

love the comics from the old days.....they knew how to say kaka and make me laugh...shecky green....where are you now? he did an entire routine in vegas.....on kaka....which as you all know, means S***.

Shecky Greene - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

Oh my... I knew I was drawn to this thread for a reason. Buck has recently been exposing himself IN CLASS.

He sits and front of me and Nick, who comes with us, will frantically whisper, "Jess! His rocket's out!". I will admit that it is slightly embarrassing so I make sure he sits with his back to everyone...

And, for the record, I noticed Mateo's lack of shame as soon as she changed the sig pic! Hahahaha


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## NewYorkDogue (Sep 27, 2011)

That's funny-- and I love the term "rocket"; much more appropriate than having his "lipstick showing"... 

And, yes. That's the thing about dogs: they have NO SHAME, lol..


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## FurMom1089 (Apr 22, 2012)

lol see what happens when I go away for a couple days? lol

Ry is doing very well on his new diet 

Tomorrow I get to learn the cleaning process for chickens, I've got a rooster for Ry that a friend is going o butcher, I get him for free  he also said that I'll have all the birds I want when he has them available! how awesome is that??

I have a couple sources I have to check out, I just gotta see em lol
I alse learned the hard way that chicken wings are a pain in the rear to skin..


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## KittyKat (Feb 11, 2011)

FurMom1089 said:


> lmfao i did open that door lol
> I'll blame it on good food and the sit lol
> 
> He got to eat outside this afternoon
> ...


I have one of my cats partial (he will eat raw chicken... for a bit, and then gives up for the rest of the day...) and the other just won't touch the stuff no matter what tricks I try (she DID eat some turkey last xmas though... cooked. That was a breakthrough).


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

FurMom1089 said:


> lol see what happens when I go away for a couple days? lol
> 
> Ry is doing very well on his new diet
> 
> ...


when he's been eating raw for a few weeks, you can start adding in a little skin....

and then you'll be able to buy whole chickens and just give him the bonier parts. some of this is trial and error....


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## FurMom1089 (Apr 22, 2012)

this week we've got drumsticks, about 6 days worth his weight is starting to flux like mine does lol... After all the reading I've been doing lately I think eventually I'm going to get a dehydrator so I can make healthy treats for him  Currently my training treat of choice is wet food mixed with water in a classic ketchup bottle *like the red camping ones* but going to simpler nuggets of dehydrated anything would be so much easier lol

I can't wait, for his sake to start throwing some new stuff in


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

FurMom1089 said:


> this week we've got drumsticks, about 6 days worth his weight is starting to flux like mine does lol... After all the reading I've been doing lately I think eventually I'm going to get a dehydrator so I can make healthy treats for him  Currently my training treat of choice is wet food mixed with water in a classic ketchup bottle *like the red camping ones* but going to simpler nuggets of dehydrated anything would be so much easier lol
> 
> I can't wait, for his sake to start throwing some new stuff in


but you will wait, won't you? LOL


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## FurMom1089 (Apr 22, 2012)

yes of course :biggrin1:

he isn't itching for anything new, he doesn't know this is only the beginning :heh:

but I found chicken gizzards and hearts at wally world, so that'll probably be my next step when that comes


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