# Indoor vs kennel raising?



## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

I am getting a cavalier king charles spaniel (YES I finally decided!!) next year... lovely dogs though certainly with their share of health problems. Health is my #1 priority and I will only buy an extensively tested dog. My next would be where the dog was raised... Tessie was not raised inside but rather in a kennel. She has been very timid especially with other dogs, but somewhat with strange people, too. I feel that raising the litter indoors would be infinitely better in exposing the dog to sounds, people etc.. Is this pretty reasonable to expect? I don't have a whole lot of experience with breeders and I definitely do NOT want another timid dog.


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## Donna Little (May 31, 2011)

I definitely think it makes a difference. When I foster puppies I have them sleep out in my foster building where they are introduced to cats. I have the 2 most laid back cats on the planet so they get to interact with them. When both of my rabbits were alive any fosters would be allowed to hang out with them too. Then they meet my dogs which are all different in personality. I always find it fascinating when they pick up instinctually what dogs will play with them right away or who will juuuuust tolerate them. My old Dachshund was the BEST teacher for pups. She would be patient and kind but wouldn't tolerate biting too hard or just general misbehavior. I also introduce them to any and everyone that wants to meet them. I dog-sit for a lot of my former foster pups and they are all very well adjusted and I think a lot of that is due to their exposure to tons of stuff at an early age. If they're in a kennel setting I'm sure they aren't being handled a lot and exposed to different situations. Congrats on your decision. We are looking forward to puppy pictures!!


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## swolek (Mar 31, 2011)

As a spaniel person, I can't even imagine raising a Cavalier King Charles Spaniel outside! They're very people-oriented and can become timid/anxious dogs when not socialized enough (that goes for most dogs, though, I guess!).

So, yes, you want a puppy that's been raised indoors. I would never purchase a kennel-raised spaniel (I actually don't think I would purchase a dog from any breeder using kennels but some breeds are more affected by it than others).


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## KlaMarie (Dec 30, 2010)

Personally, I like to support breeders who consider the dogs a part of their family. Which to me means, the dog is with the family as much as possible-- IN the house. And I can't really imagine raised a Cavie outside either. GSDs, maybe. 

But in terms of exposure to sounds, people, environmental things as pups.....I think genetics is actually more important, in the long run, than socialzation before 8-9 weeks. I think even if Rayne had been raised in only an outdoor kennel, I wouldn't have had any issues with her attitude toward noises and people. Because she is just a naturally pushy, confident dog. BUT I do like to see that a breeder will expose their litters to different situations, just so there is less work for me to do after I bring the pup home :smile:. And as long as the breeder is committed to socializing the litter, they don't necessarily need to live indoors. I would be even more concerned with a breeder who kept the pups inside ALL the time.


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## chowder (Sep 7, 2008)

Definitely indoors! 

Chelsy was raised by a woman inside who had two little girls. Even though she was only about 2 pounds, she adored children, and wasn't scared of anything like vacuums or tv's.

Rocky was fostered by a person who kept the pups inside. He has never been scared of the vacuum or anything and immediately took to housebreaking, going outside, the tv, all the indoor activities.

Shade was raised outside. He was a mess! 

My black chow puppy was raised in a concrete kennel area attached to the house. He was actually scared of the grass under his feet because it was a larger kennel and they'd never had anything under their feet except concrete or gravel! Any new surface (vinyl, wood, brick) would upset him. 


Yes....look at how the pups are raised. It makes a BIG difference in their personalities.


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## BrownieM (Aug 30, 2010)

Personally, I would only ever buy from a breeder who raised the puppies inside the home with them.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Congratulations! I look forward to your very interesting photo angles of your new dog 

i have no idea about kennels. I know nothing about raising babies  - seems to me being with people would be better, though.


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## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

xellil said:


> Congratulations! I look forward to your very interesting photo angles of your new dog


Interesting like this?


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Yes like that! All the action photos are great. And the nose, and the teeth photos.


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## Cliffdog (Dec 30, 2010)

It sounds like she didn't get enough socialization. All dogs, indoor and out, should be exposed to all sorts of people and things so that they are well-adjusted adults.

Being in the heart of hunting country, I know just as many outside dogs as in. It takes EFFORT to make sure that kennel pups are well socialized, and it's just easier to socialize them by raising them indoors. Most hunters I know raise pups in the home and transition them outside after their socialization period is over. However, I know a few who raise their pups in kennels, and if they don't make damn sure that they get those pups out and about and used to the world, their dogs turn out a little shy. Personally I am more comfortable with dogs who spent their socialization period in the home, having met some shy kennel-raised dogs, but I have also met so many wonderful kennel-raised dogs that I think it really depends on the breeder and how much effort they expend in rearing happy well-adjusted animals.

ETA: Plenty of APBT people will tell you that raising your dog inside will make it smarter as well, because of the constant interaction.


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## BrownieM (Aug 30, 2010)

I also want to say that I think indoor/vs outdoor raising might very well have to do with the breed. While it has become the "norm" for dogs to be raised inside, I do think that it is not cruel to raise a working dog outside. For example, Great Pyrenees that are being used as stock guardians, well, it would make sense, IMO, for them to be raised outside, right?

In that situation, I'd expect them to be getting lots of human interaction/socialization. Also, I would presume that the puppies would probably be sold to others who wanted working dogs. A puppy who has been raised outside to work might not be the best companion for a human who wants an inside dog.


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## KittyKat (Feb 11, 2011)

Socialization is so important.... I would never get a dog from a breeder who just keeps them in kennels outside. Puppies need that interaction that you can only get from being around people, and loud noises. Doubly so for breeds like sighthounds - which can be prone to being nervous/timid (although thats part genetics as well).

I have a question though... I have always liked those kinds of spaniels... but with so many health issues, i mean like piles of really bad ones... are there really breeders out there with totally clean stock? I mean with 95% of them having some sort of malformation of their skull that seems like you would be finding a diamond in the rough.


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## Cliffdog (Dec 30, 2010)

KittyKat said:


> Socialization is so important.... I would never get a dog from a breeder who just keeps them in kennels outside. Puppies need that interaction that you can only get from being around people, and loud noises. Doubly so for breeds like sighthounds - which can be prone to being nervous/timid (although thats part genetics as well).


My grandfather's racing hounds were raised in a kennel... they were absolutely the friendliest dogs I ever met. Exuberant about life. Us grandkids were always out playing with them. They adored people and weren't a bit shy.


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## BrownieM (Aug 30, 2010)

Cliffdog said:


> My grandfather's racing hounds were raised in a kennel... they were absolutely the friendliest dogs I ever met. Exuberant about life. Us grandkids were always out playing with them. They adored people and weren't a bit shy.


Depends on the breed. Some breeds have a tendency to be shy and need lots of socialization to counteract it. Other breeds might naturally be welcoming to others.


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## doggiedad (Jan 23, 2011)

training, socializing and being inside so they
can be near you and learn more.


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## Cliffdog (Dec 30, 2010)

BrownieM said:


> Depends on the breed. Some breeds have a tendency to be shy and need lots of socialization to counteract it. Other breeds might naturally be welcoming to others.


Sure, sure! That makes sense. Greys are the only sighthounds that I know in depth (unless you count lurchers). Just sharing my experiences.


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## maplewood (Apr 14, 2011)

Caty M said:


> I am getting a cavalier king charles spaniel (YES I finally decided!!) next year... lovely dogs though certainly with their share of health problems. Health is my #1 priority and I will only buy an extensively tested dog. My next would be where the dog was raised... Tessie was not raised inside but rather in a kennel. She has been very timid especially with other dogs, but somewhat with strange people, too. I feel that raising the litter indoors would be infinitely better in exposing the dog to sounds, people etc.. Is this pretty reasonable to expect? I don't have a whole lot of experience with breeders and I definitely do NOT want another timid dog.


In my humble opinion campanion dogs should be born and raised in the house. Cavaliers were bred specifically to be their peoples constant shadow. There is also the sociallization aspect, household noises ect ect. My best advise to ANYONE looking to purchase ANy puppy from a breeder is, Go pick up your puppy do NOT have it shipped. Period! Ask a million questions. If the breeder doesn't keep his/her dogs in a manner you approve of, walk away. If the breeder can't or won't let you meet and interact with the mother of the puppies at the very least, walk away. If there are any apparent temperament problems, walk away. If the breeder can't/wont answer any and all questions asked, walk away!

It's better to walk away from a breeder/puppy that you aren't sure about than get one and be disapoint with problems later on.


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## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

The health of the CKCS is one of the reasons I never got one before- they were on my list before I got my Bishy <3.

No, there is no breeder with zero congenital health problems.. but there are good breeders who only breed after three years with heart clearances in grandparents at the time of breeding. Syringomyelia develops in over 30% of dogs though few have the severe symptoms- most are mild. The chiari like malformation occurs in around 90% of dogs. There are other problems like dry eye, curly coat etc. 

TBH I just do not know what I should get, if not for the CKCS. I truly love their personality and have specific size requirements because of my iggy, I'd love a whippet but it's so not recommended to let an iggy and whippet run together and I will not risk a leg break because of it. I can't keep two dogs separated. 

I may just get another iggy if I can't find a reputable CKCS breeder reasonably close by, but I'd like an easier to train dog.


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## swolek (Mar 31, 2011)

Caty M said:


> The health of the CKCS is one of the reasons I never got one before- they were on my list before I got my Bishy <3.
> 
> No, there is no breeder with zero congenital health problems.. but there are good breeders who only breed after three years with heart clearances in grandparents at the time of breeding. Syringomyelia develops in over 30% of dogs though few have the severe symptoms- most are mild. The chiari like malformation occurs in around 90% of dogs. There are other problems like dry eye, curly coat etc.
> 
> ...


If you do find a breeder that's actually breeding "healthy" CKCS, let me know! They were scratched off my list long ago due to the health issues but I know my mom still wants one. And heck, I'd consider one if I found a healthy adult.

Out of curiosity, have you considered an American Cocker? They aren't that much bigger (all of ours are about 20 lbs) and are just as easy to train. I'm totally biased but I also think they're more fun as they're capable of doing more sports and activities. The breed isn't without it's health problems but they aren't as bad as CKCS and there are more responsible breeders.


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## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

I heard A.cockers are quite difficult to train so I never really considered them. Are they quite cuddly? That's the #1 for me, so that my boyfriend can stop stealing Tess for snuggles.. LOL. I don't like their show clip but I guess I can trim it down. Are they very similar to the English cocker in personality?


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## swolek (Mar 31, 2011)

Caty M said:


> I heard A.cockers are quite difficult to train so I never really considered them. Are they quite cuddly? That's the #1 for me, so that my boyfriend can stop stealing Tess for snuggles.. LOL. I don't like their show clip but I guess I can trim it down. Are they very similar to the English cocker in personality?


They're not any harder to train than a CKCS. I found ours rather easy to train as they're both eager to please and food motivated. It's harder to get them to focus when teaching complex tasks (like, say, weave poles or a trick requiring a few steps) but basic obedience is a breeze.

Cuddly? Well, Sophie is on my lap right now . Gracie is in bed snuggled under the covers with my little sister. Bambi had been on my lap until an hour ago when my mom brought her to bed (she sleeps in a crate). They're very snuggly, affectionate dogs. As I move around the house, our pack of Cockers follows, haha. They're velcro dogs.

I don't keep mine in a show clip, way too much work and a pain when hiking or doing tracking. All of ours are in puppy cuts and most pet Cocker owners keep them that way.

I haven't had an English Cocker so it's hard to compare. I'd guess that they'd be similar with the English Cocker maybe being a bit more energetic. One day I'll get an English Cocker just to see, ha.


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## xchairity_casex (Oct 8, 2011)

i wouldnt trust any breeder who kept there dogs in kennels all day thats kind of like an alarm going off ni my mind i dont care if its a breeder of mastiffs you want a breeder whos dogs are apart of the family if your looking for a family dog or companion.


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

As a breeder myself of two sensitive breeds I can say they are never raised outside. They do have a covered enclosed play area of about 200 SQ FT, and I have a puppy play area outside. They spend short periods of time in those and the majority of their time in the house being handled, learning housebreaking and house manners and being exposed to everyday household noises. Shelites are one of my breeds and can be horribly sensitive - being in the house really socializes them. I would never buy a sensitive breed or breed not eant for flock type protection, etc from a kennel that raises their dogs in runs. There is too much damage done to a sensitive or companion breed when they are raised outside. You can work on socializing but from my experience you cannot ever make up for the loss of infant socialization in the home. JHMOanda: Congrats on deciding on a new baby.


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

A million votes for raised inside!!!
Mousse was NOT raised inside, and he's needed a lot of work. His insane progress is great testament to his personality, but it did not come without effort. 

As for Am. Cockers: most well-bred cockers I've met have been awesome little dogs. 
We have a one-eyed blind, 10-year old am. cocker that lives at my boarding facility that is the sweetest dog in the world.


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## Javadoo (May 23, 2011)

I would never purchase a pup from a breeder that raises it's dogs outside.
My lab breeder raises her pups inside with her and her other dogs. She does not have any outside dogs.


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## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

I don't know. Buck is a hound and was bred by a typical houndsman. They were raised outdoors and, until he came to us, never saw the inside of a house. He is comfortable everywhere we go. There's not much that scares him or even makes him nervous. I think the breed has a lot to do with it too.


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## monkeys23 (Dec 8, 2010)

KlaMarie said:


> Personally, I like to support breeders who consider the dogs a part of their family. Which to me means, the dog is with the family as much as possible-- IN the house. And I can't really imagine raised a Cavie outside either. GSDs, maybe.
> 
> But in terms of exposure to sounds, people, environmental things as pups.....I think genetics is actually more important, in the long run, than socialzation before 8-9 weeks. I think even if Rayne had been raised in only an outdoor kennel, I wouldn't have had any issues with her attitude toward noises and people. Because she is just a naturally pushy, confident dog. BUT I do like to see that a breeder will expose their litters to different situations, just so there is less work for me to do after I bring the pup home :smile:. And as long as the breeder is committed to socializing the litter, they don't necessarily need to live indoors. I would be even more concerned with a breeder who kept the pups inside ALL the time.


I fully agree with this.


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## monkeys23 (Dec 8, 2010)

BrownieM said:


> I also want to say that I think indoor/vs outdoor raising might very well have to do with the breed. While it has become the "norm" for dogs to be raised inside, I do think that it is not cruel to raise a working dog outside. For example, Great Pyrenees that are being used as stock guardians, well, it would make sense, IMO, for them to be raised outside, right?
> 
> In that situation, I'd expect them to be getting lots of human interaction/socialization. Also, I would presume that the puppies would probably be sold to others who wanted working dogs. A puppy who has been raised outside to work might not be the best companion for a human who wants an inside dog.


Indeed. If the dogs/pups aren't raised literally with the stock, they might have trouble adjusting to their job. Many LGD's are born/imprinted by being in a cozy barn the first however many weeks inside a pen with sheep (or goats or whatever). And like any good breeder, often they'll keep back several pups to raise for a while and see which ones they want to keep back for their program indefinitely. They get human interaction at feeding time and do bond their people, but they aren't pets. I would not necesarily expect them to tolerate a strange person in with the stock without their owner present.


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