# Is white meat necessary?



## Cliffdog (Dec 30, 2010)

It seems to me like poultry and fish would be pretty rare for a dog in the wild, if you have ever seen a dog try to catch a bird, it's not easy. :lol: So is it necessary to feed white meat? Can it be eliminated from diet for a long period of time, without ill effects? Perhaps with a fish oil supplement to make up for the lack of omega 3s in grain fed beef.


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## CavePaws (Jan 25, 2011)

Dogs that have access to lakes will often scavenge. Ducks get injured and eaten just like lots of other animals. They also just die. Same thing goes for fish, they wash up and get eaten by the scavengers. If they have access to these things you bet they will eat them. The feral dogs I watched would eat TONS of washed up fish and monitored the shore line in the early mornings. I didn't see them killing ducks, but I'm sure if they came upon one they would try to kill it and eat it.

I think fish can have a valuable place in the diet. So can poultry. I just think red meat is more nutrient rich so if you want to exclude poultry you probably aren't missing anything. I would, however, supplement with fish oil if you are feeding factory farmed meat like I am.


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

Variety is important. A diet of all farm raised meat is going to lack omegas, so I would supplement pretty heavily there if you're not going to feed fish. I personally feed fish every single day and my pack loves it. 

Plus, there are few red meat sources in which give much edible bone.


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## cprcheetah (Jul 14, 2010)

Personally I feel the variety is important. I like to mix it up and feed red/white & fish on a regular basis


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

I personally don't think "white" meat is necessary. Some dogs need the smaller, more edible bones from poultry to get the nutrition from bones. But dogs that can handle at least pork bones don't technically NEED white meats like poultry. Fish to me really is only a source of good fatty acids, but if you feed a diet of grass fed red meats, you don't need fish because naturally raised red meats have just as many omega fatty acids as deep, cold water fishes like salmon, sardines, mackerel, etc. 

Variety IS key to any diet, but if possible feeding a diet of all red meats of different varieties (beef, pork, goat, llama, lamb, venison, elk, bison, emu, etc, etc) is better IMO than a diet of half "white" meats and half red meats. 

In the end, nutritionally red meats are species appropriate for the "wolf" in dogs.


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## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

Yes, white meat is DEFINITELY necessary when you are on a budget. Hahaha. Nutritionally? Not as important as red meat, but financially? Oh yes... It most definitely is!

We feed mostly chicken with as much beef, pork, etc that we can get. When we have a good source of fish, we give fish as much as possible as well. I do feel that having that variety is important as wild dogs/wolves will eat a huge variety of animals. Birds die all the time. For some dogs, birds are a cinch to catch. We find bird feathers and the occasional foot or skull on my grandparents' patio all the time. Their doberman is eXCELLENT at stalking and catching birds. And these are the little quick ones, too! The rabbits aren't afraid of her though. Haha.

Birds, fish, deer, moose, mice, rabbits, deer, and anything else that is available to hunt or find already dead will be a part of a wild canine's diet so I do see white meat and fish as being necessary for my dogs.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Dude and Bucks Mamma said:


> Yes, white meat is DEFINITELY necessary when you are on a budget. Hahaha. Nutritionally? Not as important as red meat, but financially? Oh yes... It most definitely is!
> 
> We feed mostly chicken with as much beef, pork, etc that we can get. When we have a good source of fish, we give fish as much as possible as well. I do feel that having that variety is important as wild dogs/wolves will eat a huge variety of animals. Birds die all the time. For some dogs, birds are a cinch to catch. We find bird feathers and the occasional foot or skull on my grandparents' patio all the time. Their doberman is eXCELLENT at stalking and catching birds. And these are the little quick ones, too! The rabbits aren't afraid of her though. Haha.
> 
> Birds, fish, deer, moose, mice, rabbits, deer, and anything else that is available to hunt or find already dead will be a part of a wild canine's diet so I do see white meat and fish as being necessary for my dogs.


Oh I feel ya there! We feed ~10-15 pounds per DAY! So they get chicken and turkey on a regular basis LOL

And its not like white meat is totally useless to them....but if I had endless amounts of money, you betcha I would feed them a well rounded red meat diet. But...until we win the lottery, they will get their white meat!


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

My guys need alot of bone so they need white meat - turkey necks and chicken backs are staples. Everything else is where they get variety.


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## Donna Little (May 31, 2011)

DaneMama said:


> Oh I feel ya there! We feed ~10-15 pounds per DAY! So they get chicken and turkey on a regular basis LOL
> 
> And its not like white meat is totally useless to them....but if I had endless amounts of money, you betcha I would feed them a well rounded red meat diet. But...until we win the lottery, they will get their white meat!


I can't imagine! I'm feeding 9 dogs and we are still under 3 lbs of meat per day. I think I need to stick with the little guys and rethink the big dog. 
Little dogs = seriously cost effective food intake! :biggrin:


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Yeah, but they are worth it....most days LOL


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## Donna Little (May 31, 2011)

DaneMama said:


> Yeah, but they are worth it....most days LOL


I have no doubt they're worth it every day! Mine on the other hand.... Sometimes I wonder. I've threatened to kill a couple of them this morning because they won't stop barking. AHHHGGGG!!


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Donna Little said:


> I have no doubt they're worth it every day! Mine on the other hand.... Sometimes I wonder. I've threatened to kill a couple of them this morning because they won't stop barking. AHHHGGGG!!


When they take up the WHOLE FREAKING bed, swing, couch...they're not worth it LOL


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

Natalie, how do you and Jon even fit in the house? LOL!!


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

naturalfeddogs said:


> Natalie, how do you and Jon even fit in the house? LOL!!


I honestly don't know how we did it in Denver. We had ~700 square feet, granted the yard was a double lot...but still. It sure was cozy. 

Now we have almost 3000 square feet and 6 acres and it still feels cozy! I kinda love it though...


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

You wouldn't have it any other way!


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

View attachment 4434


i thought this was a great shot of a dog and fish.

personally, i think it depends.

chicken and turkey are economical. can't escape it. do dogs need white meat? no. i don't think so. i think they need solid red meat diets....

i also think fish is important, certain fishes....like sardines, herring, mackerel and anchovies...they are high in omega 3s and low in mercury....and they are not pacific northwest salmon which has the parasite and i won't take the chance on one parasite surviving the freezing process and killing my dogs. but that's me.

having said that, we do what we can afford. and if chicken and turkey is it, then that's what is fed. 

if it is the only food fed, then i think there will be nutritional deficiencies.....even though dr. lonsdale said that a chicken fed dog is still better off than a dog fed kibble....

be that as it may, we do the best we can and i just think we should feed as much variety as we can. 

we are fortunate in that our children are four legged so we can indulge them.

we had actually stopped giving them chicken for a while, but both need more bone than many dogs, and pork is just as crappy as chicken in regard to what they are fed and how they are treated....

hurry up, natalie, with those chickens so you can start a database


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## minnieme (Jul 6, 2011)

DaneMama said:


> When they take up the WHOLE FREAKING bed, swing, couch...they're not worth it LOL


LOL. Ohhhh, she seems so like Minnie. Minnie sits all regal and crossed-paws too. Then she'll get up and inevitably trip over something or stretch and fart or something much less graceful and you realize it was all an illusion. :wink:


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## monkeys23 (Dec 8, 2010)

Well Lily has nearly caught ducks a bunch of times... only reason she didn't is me jerking her back because they are protected on that walking path. 
She caught a dove once too.
When my friend's mom was building her chicken enclosure Lily assessed the situation, went and got the neighbor dog and said okay we can do this... except she was supervised and therfore intercepted. I don't think I could ever have chickens on my property. LOL.

The family BC when I was growing up would snatch birds like candy. He could jump 10ft straight up and catch one midflight. I'm so not even joking. It was impressive.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

magicre said:


> View attachment 4434
> hurry up, natalie, with those chickens so you can start a database


What? For chicken meat??? I don't think so....we've grown to close to the chicks LOL. For eggs? Heck yes. We will have more than we know what to do with 

We just added four Bourbon Red Heritage turkeys to the flock...Mama and three chicks. 










I personally think that naturally raised poultry is more like red meat anyways. If anyone has butchered a whole wild turkey before will know what I mean because the meat looks like pork its so dark.


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## lozzibear (Sep 13, 2010)

This thread has really got me thinking... I feed chicken a lot, but it's because of the bones rather than the cost. I can get beef (off the bone) really cheap, so I like chicken to get him some bone... I get lamb ribs really cheap too, so I might cut down the chicken and up the lamb ribs  Hrm... lol


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

DaneMama said:


> Oh I feel ya there! We feed ~10-15 pounds per DAY! So they get chicken and turkey on a regular basis LOL


Wow, we use almost double that, and only one more dog.


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## swolek (Mar 31, 2011)

I don't think it's necessary at all but like some people have said...poultry tends to keep the diet affordable and is an easy source of soft edible bone while fish is a great source of fatty oils. Both also add variety to the diet.

That being said, I don't think a huge variety is needed. It can't hurt and becomes more important if factory-farmed meats are being fed...but, honestly, individual wolves actually don't eat a huge variety. Wolves in general? Of course! You have wolves in Alaska eating salmon as a staple (so there are your fishing wolves, haha), wolves in parts of England stealing sheep and other livestock from farms (sometimes even turkeys), wolves in North America eating mostly elk/deer/moose (depending on the area), etc. There are even some areas where beaver is a major prey item for wolves! But it's all restricted by area and other factors so an individual wolf might just eat deer and the occasional rabbit or bird. Others may exclusively eat, say, beavers/muskrats. Not a ton of variety but it works because these are whole prey items. So, in my opinion, if you're offering at least two or three proteins and feeding organs (liver being the most important) and edible bone you're good to go.

As for birds, I remember reading that waterfowl make up most of a wolf's bird intake (if any). So you could definitely argue that ducks, geese, etc. are more "natural" than chicken. I sometimes have opportunities to get duck for very cheap (wings, backs, and necks) and when I do, it replaces chicken in the dogs' diet until it runs out. They love duck necks!


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## Cliffdog (Dec 30, 2010)

I was just asking because as a hunter and... well, just regular killer of wildlife, we have lots of game meats all the time. Lots of their diet is venison, squirrel, and some rabbit, and I'm cautiously feeding wild boar now. They get a lot of storebought pork as well as it's pretty inexpensive and a fair amount of beef heart. Most of their bone comes from ribs and whole squirrel. I'm also thinking about ordering feeder rats in bulk. To be honest they aren't big on poultry (at least Bonnie isn't) so I don't feed a whole lot of it. They get plenty of fish during summer and spring, but we don't fish in the cold weather, so they've been getting fish oil pills lately. I just wasn't sure if that was a good diet for them.


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## swolek (Mar 31, 2011)

Cliffdog said:


> I was just asking because as a hunter and... well, just regular killer of wildlife, we have lots of game meats all the time. Lots of their diet is venison, squirrel, and some rabbit, and I'm cautiously feeding wild boar now. They get a lot of storebought pork as well as it's pretty inexpensive and a fair amount of beef heart. Most of their bone comes from ribs and whole squirrel. I'm also thinking about ordering feeder rats in bulk. To be honest they aren't big on poultry (at least Bonnie isn't) so I don't feed a whole lot of it. They get plenty of fish during summer and spring, but we don't fish in the cold weather, so they've been getting fish oil pills lately. I just wasn't sure if that was a good diet for them.


That sounds like a great variety to me . As for the rats, I would just buy a few from a pet store first to try because some dogs won't touch them. For me, it wasn't a big deal to bulk order feeders because I have snakes but I'd hate to end up with 50 rats if I didn't have reptiles and my dogs wouldn't eat them!


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## KittyKat (Feb 11, 2011)

I would think dogs could catch pheasants easily enough =)


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## Cliffdog (Dec 30, 2010)

swolek said:


> That sounds like a great variety to me . As for the rats, I would just buy a few from a pet store first to try because some dogs won't touch them. For me, it wasn't a big deal to bulk order feeders because I have snakes but I'd hate to end up with 50 rats if I didn't have reptiles and my dogs wouldn't eat them!


 That's my plan! I have high hopes that they'll eat them because they're pretty much squirrels with naked tails right? lol.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

DaneMama said:


> What? For chicken meat??? I don't think so....we've grown to close to the chicks LOL. For eggs? Heck yes. We will have more than we know what to do with
> 
> We just added four Bourbon Red Heritage turkeys to the flock...Mama and three chicks.
> 
> ...


i stopped feeding chicken for a while because it tastes funny to me...in an off funny way...and eggs don't peel right....i can get bone for the dogs using other proteins....

i was teasing you about your chickens, but it got me thinking about where to get real chickens....

the ones my store sells, the quote unquote organic ones, free range ones..ahem, i doubt if they are....because they are fed the same vegetarian diet of soy and corn as the commercial ones i get, even though draper valley is washington grown...

so i wanted yours LOL

i'm feeding them again only to give them bone....and i didn't want to feed that much pork....so i'll strike a balance as i call around to the various emu farms...

the necks are easy for them to eat.


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