# I'm getting kind of nervous



## Huginn (Nov 21, 2011)

Next Tuesday at our puppy class we are talking about nutrition and everyone is supposed to bring in the ingredients label from their dog food. . . which means that I have to tell my trainer that I feed raw. . . 
Now, I am not the most confident person, nor am I the most outgoing. In fact I am generally very reserved, shy and socially awkward.
There are a couple of things that make this difficult. 1) is that I am taking this class at PetSmart (yes, I know they aren't the best, but as an employee I get a free class and it's a good chance to socialize) and I work there. As a representative of the company I am not supposed to recommend anything other than products we carry while I am on the property. The trainer has told everyone that I work there and a lot of them have come in to ask me questions about all sorts of things because they know me from class. 2) I know that my trainer is going to disagree with me, I haven't told her yet, even though nearly all of my coworkers know that I feed raw. She's a scary, confident, educated woman with a dominant personality. I am none of those things (except a woman), unless I have a drink or two in me. 
Does anyone have any advice?


----------



## BoxerParty (Nov 9, 2011)

Huginn said:


> Next Tuesday at our puppy class we are talking about nutrition and everyone is supposed to bring in the ingredients label from their dog food. . . which means that I have to tell my trainer that I feed raw. . .
> Now, I am not the most confident person, nor am I the most outgoing. In fact I am generally very reserved, shy and socially awkward.
> There are a couple of things that make this difficult. 1) is that I am taking this class at PetSmart (yes, I know they aren't the best, but as an employee I get a free class and it's a good chance to socialize) and I work there. As a representative of the company I am not supposed to recommend anything other than products we carry while I am on the property. The trainer has told everyone that I work there and a lot of them have come in to ask me questions about all sorts of things because they know me from class. 2) I know that my trainer is going to disagree with me, I haven't told her yet, even though nearly all of my coworkers know that I feed raw. She's a scary, confident, educated woman with a dominant personality. I am none of those things (except a woman), unless I have a drink or two in me.
> Does anyone have any advice?



It would be easy enough for me to tell you to stand by your choice, but a) I suspect that's not very helpful, and b) I'm reticent to make suggestions that could have any kind of consequences for you job-wise.

SO I would tell the class that you feed raw (or if you prefer, say "a homemade" diet"), and that you do so because Huginn has special health needs. You could say that you have "professional" guidance. 

You could also just pick a random high-quality dog food and bring the ingredients list for that to meet the purposes of the in-class exercise. :biggrin: There is NO shame in that. You are NOT obligated to become an outspoken raw feeding advocate just because you chose it for your own dog. It would, of course, be amazing if more people were educated about raw feeding, but you do not have to personally take on the task of educating your classmates/trainer/the masses if you aren't comfortable doing that. 

Ultimately, remind yourself that, however intimidating she may seem, the trainer does NOT make decisions about YOUR dog. You have chosen a diet that you know to be best for him. You can recognize and respect her expertise in puppy training without having to enter into debates about nutrition. If Huginn were your human child, you would take educational advice from his kindergarted teacher, but would probably not seek out or heed that teacher's unqualified nutritional advice. Think of this as the same kind of situation. 

Good luck!


----------



## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

Huginn said:


> Next Tuesday at our puppy class we are talking about nutrition and everyone is supposed to bring in the ingredients label from their dog food. . . which means that I have to tell my trainer that I feed raw. . .
> Now, I am not the most confident person, nor am I the most outgoing. In fact I am generally very reserved, shy and socially awkward.
> There are a couple of things that make this difficult. 1) is that I am taking this class at PetSmart (yes, I know they aren't the best, but as an employee I get a free class and it's a good chance to socialize) and I work there. As a representative of the company I am not supposed to recommend anything other than products we carry while I am on the property. The trainer has told everyone that I work there and a lot of them have come in to ask me questions about all sorts of things because they know me from class. 2) I know that my trainer is going to disagree with me, I haven't told her yet, even though nearly all of my coworkers know that I feed raw. She's a scary, confident, educated woman with a dominant personality. I am none of those things (except a woman), unless I have a *drink or two* in me.
> Does anyone have any advice?




Have a couple, and let it all go! (using your brain of course :smile

Honestly I would print out the PMR beginner directions and fact page, and hand it over


----------



## rannmiller (Jun 27, 2008)

Sprocket said:


> Have a couple, and let it all go! (using your brain of course :smile
> 
> Honestly I would print out the PMR beginner directions and fact page, and hand it over


Haha I was literally going to say the exact same thing on both accounts!

Edit: or just do as BoxerParty said and lie/say you do a homemade diet. I've kinda lied at both of my vet clinics, they just assume and I don't correct them :biggrin: If you honestly think it will hurt or jeopardize your job in any way, do _not_ do it! It isn't worth it to make a point.


----------



## wolfsnaps88 (Jan 2, 2012)

Sprocket beat me to it. I was going to say kick back a couple and be honest. Heehee

It sucks that you are not comfortable with this. I was training to be a Petco dog trainer and my mentor was just beginning to feed her dogs raw...and I was schooling her! Ha!

The reason they want to even bring up nutrition in class is so that, while yes they are informing people, what they really want to do is convert customers to a high price kibble their store sells. Either way, it will probably only be covered in one class or so and its up to you how big of a deal you want to make it. You can either tell the truth and possibly be bombarded with a lot of questions or critisisms....or you can just bring a list of ingredients from a good food they condone and be done with it.

Let us know how it goes as now I am invested. Good luck


----------



## LucyinSweden (Feb 20, 2012)

I think it's sad that you cannot be an honest advocate (without being pushy) of a choice you have made. This is regardless of it being a personal life or a pet life choice. The spice of life is us having and sharing different views and opinions and it's always a shame when someone else gets run over by someone who yells louder. However, I really would just go with what BoxerParty suggested. That's neither the time, nor the place for you to fight the machine. (okay, so personally, I'd be aggressive about my opinions also, but seeing that this could impact your job and you are not comfortable with being 'that' person, it's not the best plan for you.)


----------



## IslandPaws4Raw (Sep 7, 2011)

Huginn said:


> Next Tuesday at our puppy class we are talking about nutrition and everyone is supposed to bring in the ingredients label from their dog food. . . which means that I have to tell my trainer that I feed raw. . .
> Now, I am not the most confident person, nor am I the most outgoing. In fact I am generally very reserved, shy and socially awkward.
> *As a representative of the company I am not supposed to recommend anything other than products we carry while I am on the property*.
> Does anyone have any advice?


I completely understand how you feel. For me though I've always been able to speak out/up for myself when I know I'm right/passionate about something.

I'm guessing that you take the class on your own time. If so, I don't think they have the right to dictate what you say about what you feed your dogs in your home. Heck, even if you were in uniform, on company time, they can't possibly punish you for giving information in class that's contradictory to company policy. 

If you felt comfortable enough, maybe take this tack....

Explain that you have chosen to feed your dog a more natural/holistic diet ( briefly explain PMR or you can be vague and say "homemade")

Then bring the dry food bag ingredient to show them which commercial food you WOULD have chosen if you had gone that route.....

Good luck....


----------



## chowder (Sep 7, 2008)

You could bring in the ingredients list from a bag of Orijen (do they sell that) or the best they sell .....maybe Blue Buffalo Wilderness. And then say you feed raw in the morning and a very high quality grain free kibble as a small evening meal. There are a lot of people who feed kibble as an occasional meal or every 12 hours and that way anyone in your class could ask you about starting raw feeding and you would still be 'selling' the stores product.


----------



## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

Thats a great idea that Kai's mum had. Tell them that you have to feed a home made diet because of allergies or something and are under your vets guidance, and then show them a label from the food you would feed if you were able to.
You can't take any chances at all with your job nowadays and if you don't tell a bunch of strangers what you feed your dog it's really no big deal. You have to concentrate on what's really important in this life and that is your job at the moment.
Shame, it would be nice to be an advocate for PMR and you could if it was a class away from your place of employment, but it's probably not the wisest thing to do in your circumstances.


----------



## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

Do you have to give the brand? If not, just write down the "ingredients" in your food. Chicken, turkey, or beef, and ad some things like liver,"ground" bone, etc... Say feed an all natural,chicken based, beef based or fish based food.


----------



## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Gotta love these "nutrition" classes. I had a great trainer in Indiana but he was so awful sometimes. We had to sit through an hour of nutrition class and in the end what he wanted to do was get us to buy Premium Edge, which was the only dog food he sold.

Sounds like PetSmart is doing the same thing. It's a dog training class, for Pete's sake. Not a dog food class.

So I guess i don't have any advice. If it would effect your dog of course you can't say. And people wonder why those who feed raw get a little nuts about it on this site - look what happens at other places. If we mention it, we could lose our livelihood. Bet that doesn't happen with people who feed dry dog food.'

Or, you could get sick and miss the class


----------



## Makovach (Jan 24, 2012)

I think its a hunk of crap to do this. I mean, its worth educating, but every petsmart I've ever been in has some of the most crappy kibbles. I think I saw blue wilderness once. But I don't know about your store. I dont think they are educating as much as pushing. I would just "forget" to bring it. And put some speal about how their foods are great or what ever you do on a normal day at work. 

I wouldnt be able to work in a pet store for this reason. Last pet store I worked in was a mom and pop store. We sold Diamond products. I (and my friend and the groomer) never reccomended anything less than premium edge and mostly just Taste of the wild. Eventually they quit ordering everything else. But there are alot more rules when it comes to a chain store.

I wish you luck. I'm pretty sure if you told them you feed raw, but don't push it, if they tryed to fire you, they would be in a lot of trouble. I know at walmart I've been asked what I feed and I tell people raw. People ask what I reccomend and I direct them out of the store to the feed mill that sells orjin, earthborn and other great food. I also told people about raw. They would get mad, But I would tell them it is personal belief. People asked for my opinion and store policy is to be honest and careing to the customer. Maybe look for somthing like that?

Don't let people be pushy to you. Esp, your trainer. She is a co-worker. not some form of a god. Maybe take her in a raw sheet and show her what you feed and info about the diet. Or just say you prefer not to share if you are not comfortable with it. 

Good luck!


----------



## brandypup (Jan 23, 2012)

I would type out and print your list. You do not have to say anything about raw. Just print your list. If they ask what you feed just tell them your not at liberty to say per petsmart rules. 

Mine would look like....

Chicken, Heart, Kidney, Liver, fish oil, taurine, de (Diatomaceous earth )

Do not worry about what people think. It's your dog,it's your knoweledge of what is best for your dog. It's not a petsmart dog, it's your dog.


----------



## KittyKat (Feb 11, 2011)

Yeah I would just say you can't say what food you feed your dog as you are only allowed to promote their brands while working there. If people ask after the class you can tell them what you feed and why you don't feed processed food, but then you are 1 to 1 and not speaking to a large group with fear of being interrogated.


----------



## bridget246 (Oct 26, 2011)

My biggest fear is you losing your job for promoting a hot topic. I'd either go with the special needs or grabbing a label from a good brand. If you didn't work there then I'd be all for promoting raw.


----------



## Maritan (Nov 11, 2011)

How expensive are these classes? I almost want to go to one and get on my soap box about raw as a student. Just to do it. I don't work at a PetCo/Smart etc. so I have nothing to lose! :biggrin:


----------



## Mondo (Dec 20, 2011)

> Now, I am not the most confident person, nor am I the most outgoing. In fact I am generally very reserved, shy and socially awkward.


Been where you are, so understanding that and how difficult this is for you. Lie.

But choose a premium kibble. I second Orijen or Arcana. Being biased towards Champion, having fed them in our kibble days of yore.


----------



## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

And sorry if this is a double post....DFC is acting weird for me!!

I would say something like the following "I feed Huginn an all natural home prepared diet consisting of meat, organs, edible bones, and vit/min and veggies as needed. I do so under my vet's staff's guidance and because of his allergies and to go more natural, as that is how I eat as well. "
None of that is a lie, all is true actually since you go to Natalie's vet and you give treats of veggies and the organs (that you will get o later) provide and/all needed vit/min. You could also write out the PMR site's URL (and my email address if you wanted)on a few slips of paper if any one asks about it after class. 

Or go to a food's(Adiction is what you had thought about feeding, right? Or Acana) website, find a food that you like and print it out!!:tongue:


----------



## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

I worked for Petsmart for 2 years and I REALLY doubt you will lose your job over this. If my store doesn't carry and item, I sure as heck tell those customers where they can find it. Same with PMR, Petsmart doesn't carry it? Oh well the grocery stores do! I believe that honesty is the best policy, and that companies need to open their damn eyes and realize that the world is changing and the sheeple are running wild! 

I don't agree with the "beating around the bush" ideas. It just causes confusion. What are you going to say when they ask you SPECIFICALLY, what brand you feed?

I do like the "homemade diet due to allergies" line. Although they may pry further and ask why you feed what items you feed.


----------



## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

i also think it sad that we are forced to stay in the closet, either because we don't want the confrontation or there is a possibility of being censured or worse.

if you tell them she is on a vet prescribed diet, and it is home cooked, i doubt if anyone would bat an eye. 

if you don't want to do that, don't stress yourself out and just pick a high quality kibble and print out the ingredients from the internet and call it good.

it's a shame though. i get it, but it's a shame.


----------



## Celt (Dec 27, 2010)

If it were me, when asked about my food (no volunteering for me, and would encourage others to go before me), I would just respond that as an employee of PetsMart that I don't think it would be right to say what I feed and leave it at that. If "pushed" I would say that what I feed my dog is a personal decision that many people don't understand and would rather not waste class time in debating/discussing it. Then if someone asks outside of class/work time, you have the option of talking about it or not.


----------



## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

Celt said:


> If it were me, when asked about my food (no volunteering for me, and would encourage others to go before me), I would just respond that as an employee of PetsMart that I don't think it would be right to say what I feed and leave it at that. If "pushed" I would say that what I feed my dog is a personal decision that many people don't understand and would rather not waste class time in debating/discussing it. Then if someone asks outside of class/work time, you have the option of talking about it or not.


i like that, but it's not human nature to leave those statements alone...


----------



## Huginn (Nov 21, 2011)

I've been thinking about this a lot since I made this post and after reading everyone's comments I think I have come to a decision. 
I believe the only way I can really get a reprimand is if someone in the class is really bothered and makes a complaint to corporate, in that case since I have never had any sort of reprimand I doubt much will come of it. 
The other one is "M" the trainer, I have to stand up to her and to do that I need research. I was thinking of mentioning Dr. Lonsdale and bringing in the name of one of his books as a source of mine. Now, see here is the thing about her and this class, she doesn't follow the PetSmart protocol exactly. She kind of does a variation that is much better, except for this part. While you might think she does it to push more expensive kibbles (we just got in a whole new line of grain free stuff like Wellness Core, Blue Buffalo Freedom, Innova Prime, Fresh Pet, and Nutros Grain Free, as well as a Science Diet Grain Free), but she actually always advocates Purina Pro Plan and will bring in her 6 month old Weim puppy to show how "soft and shiny" is, never mind the dandruff or that simply touching her makes me itch. 
I am going to suck it up and be strong in my decision. As long as I don't announce my personal opinions about every food on the shelf and straight up argue with her about ProPlan then really I don't think there should be any negativity coming my way. What boxerparty said initially really struck me, if he was a human child I wouldn't let his Kindergarten teacher intimidate me into letting him eat McDonalds and hotdogs every day. He's my dog and no one has the right to tell me how I must take care of him as long as what I am doing isn't hurting him in any shape or form. She knows that he came to me with hotspots and horrible dandruff and complete black inside his ears, she keeps commenting on how wonderful he looks, how tall he is, how nice his weight is and how he is growing so evenly. 
Lol, maybe I will see if one of my friends will meet me for a beer before class. I am tired of not being confident when explaining my decisions and shrinking to the size of a mouse at the thought of confrontation. I think if anything negative happens I have the support of three managers and two other employees in my decision to feed him raw. 
She agrees with me on the low vax because of Dr. Jean Dodds, she actually recommended I look up her studies, so maybe she will agree to disagree with me on this if I mention Dr. Lonsdale and that I am working with a vet who knows I feed him raw and have her support.


----------



## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

If you've got the support of your managers and there is no chance of your job being in jeopardy or conflict in the workplace, then go to town. I would.


----------



## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

print out orijen's white paper


----------



## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

I am glad to hear this. We really need to stand up for ourselves. We are dour dog's advocates and promoting the best way of feeding is part of that. Huggin will be a wonderful representative throughout your class sessions of what a raw fed pup looks like. Saying you feed raw in no way bashes kibble. There are some very good kibble - especially when compared to what we had to feed our dogs twenty years ago. Be proud of your decisions, Abi can help you there :smile: Making a statement of fact is not pushing an agenda, if the trainer disagrees just sweetly say you have researched, have mentors in place, veterinary back up and are very happy and confident in your decision to feed your dog raw. You are doing what you feel is best and feel you will have to agree to disagree. No argument can be made with only one person arguing. State your piece and step back. Confidence is very attractive.


----------



## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

> No argument can be made with only one person arguing.


best bumper sticker i've heard in a while.


----------



## OnyxDog (Jun 15, 2011)

As a former PETCO dog trainer, I would get so frustrated that I could never promote raw in my classes. I would always cringe whenever I had to talk about nutrition, because I felt like I was lying to them about what was best for their dogs. The students would often ask me what I feed, and I would have to tell them that if they want to discuss it, we can discuss it outside after class.

I think one of the most memorable moments in my classes is when I asked a group of puppy owners what they feed their dogs. I got to the last person who owned the most beautiful rottie pup I had ever seen. She looked at me with an almost defiant look in her face and said, "I feed her a raw diet!" 

I was so proud of her for standing up for her dog and her decision. If this trainer gets offended, it shouldn't be your problem... considering you have your managers backing you up!


----------



## Huginn (Nov 21, 2011)

Confidence is definitely key here. I think you are right Liz, if she starts to argue I won't contribute. Up until Tuesday I will refresh my memory with all of the research I have done, the reason's behind my choices and make sure that I have answers if anyone asks questions. 
I'm hoping it doesn't make the others in the class look down on me, but that is not what is important here.


----------



## Huginn (Nov 21, 2011)

Maritan said:


> How expensive are these classes? I almost want to go to one and get on my soap box about raw as a student. Just to do it. I don't work at a PetCo/Smart etc. so I have nothing to lose! :biggrin:


They are 109.00 for a six week course, at least in the region I am in (Washington, Oregon, Montana).


----------



## Makovach (Jan 24, 2012)

Go get em!


----------



## chowder (Sep 7, 2008)

Huginn said:


> They are 109.00 for a six week course, at least in the region I am in (Washington, Oregon, Montana).


It probably varies by Petsmart, along with the content. I took Rocky to puppy kindergarten at Petsmart just because he was so shy and I wanted to get him out in the store where there were actual people around him (I had to literally carry him into the store every week at first). We paid $95 for 8 weeks and there were no nutrition talks. We had three puppies per class and had them learn the basics plus climb on all the agility equipment to get them used to it so he learned 'table', 'tunnel', a small jump, and a balance beam all in his first puppy kindergarten. I actually was impressed with the one we have here.


----------



## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

chowder said:


> It probably varies by Petsmart, along with the content. I took Rocky to puppy kindergarten at Petsmart just because he was so shy and I wanted to get him out in the store where there were actual people around him (I had to literally carry him into the store every week at first). We paid $95 for 8 weeks and there were no nutrition talks. We had three puppies per class and had them learn the basics plus climb on all the agility equipment to get them used to it so he learned 'table', 'tunnel', a small jump, and a balance beam all in his first puppy kindergarten. I actually was impressed with the one we have here.


They have upped the price and shortened the class in the past year or two!:wink: :frown:


----------



## Huginn (Nov 21, 2011)

chowder said:


> It probably varies by Petsmart, along with the content. I took Rocky to puppy kindergarten at Petsmart just because he was so shy and I wanted to get him out in the store where there were actual people around him (I had to literally carry him into the store every week at first). We paid $95 for 8 weeks and there were no nutrition talks. We had three puppies per class and had them learn the basics plus climb on all the agility equipment to get them used to it so he learned 'table', 'tunnel', a small jump, and a balance beam all in his first puppy kindergarten. I actually was impressed with the one we have here.


Ya they just changed to a 6 week course in the last year. They claim it is because of participants saying that 8 weeks was too long. In the last two years they have upped the price from 99.00 to 109.00 (and shortened the time lol). Supposedly that was company wide, but who knows what they mean when they send us those updates.


----------



## NewYorkDogue (Sep 27, 2011)

magicre said:


> print out orijen's white paper


BTW--- thank you for the OWP link in your signature. Brilliant.

This is a struggle, isn't it? I am of the opinion that, yes, confidence is the key here. Whatever flows out from that energy will be golden. And preparation is important as well-- the facts, the testimonials, the research, your own conviction... that this way of feeding is the most species-appropriate diet on the planet, will help bolster your responses to any questions and/or fears that are expressed by others in the class.

Hey, if it helps to down a drink beforehand, then so be it... :biggrin:


----------



## BoxerParty (Nov 9, 2011)

Huginn said:


> I am going to suck it up and be strong in my decision. As long as I don't announce my personal opinions about every food on the shelf and straight up argue with her about ProPlan then really I don't think there should be any negativity coming my way. What boxerparty said initially really struck me, if he was a human child I wouldn't let his Kindergarten teacher intimidate me into letting him eat McDonalds and hotdogs every day. He's my dog and no one has the right to tell me how I must take care of him as long as what I am doing isn't hurting him in any shape or form. She knows that he came to me with hotspots and horrible dandruff and complete black inside his ears, she keeps commenting on how wonderful he looks, how tall he is, how nice his weight is and how he is growing so evenly.
> Lol, maybe I will see if one of my friends will meet me for a beer before class. I am tired of not being confident when explaining my decisions and shrinking to the size of a mouse at the thought of confrontation. I think if anything negative happens I have the support of three managers and two other employees in my decision to feed him raw.
> She agrees with me on the low vax because of Dr. Jean Dodds, she actually recommended I look up her studies, so maybe she will agree to disagree with me on this if I mention Dr. Lonsdale and that I am working with a vet who knows I feed him raw and have her support.


You know what my favourite thing about this forum is? The advice about raw feeding is unparalleled, of course, but the most amazing thing is how often the nutritional choices we have made for our dogs lead us to personal growth. 

You've taken the first and the MOST difficult step by resolving to advocate for Huginn despite your discomfort. Let your confidence that you've made the best choice for him give YOU confidence as you advocate on his behalf. Get in touch with the calm and centred place inside you, take a deep breath, and tell the truth in a straightforward, factual manner. Then take your seat. Liz is 100% right in saying that an argument needs two parties. Don't engage in arguments. KNOW that he is doing so much better on raw. TRUST YOURSELF! You'll do great!


----------



## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

You have to wonder how many raw feeders are still in the closet.

I read something recently that said one reason these dog food companies are coming out with all this new stuff is because they are losing customers. I don't know if that's true or not, but it's interesting.

Good luck - if it helps any, there are many of us out here who also aren't great at doing this stuff. I am articulate in my living room but when I get into the vet's office it's like my brains just spilled right out of my ears.


----------



## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

xellil said:


> You have to wonder how many raw feeders are still in the closet.
> 
> I read something recently that said one reason these dog food companies are coming out with all this new stuff is because they are losing customers. I don't know if that's true or not, but it's interesting.
> 
> Good luck - if it helps any, there are many of us out here who also aren't great at doing this stuff. I am articulate in my living room but when I get into the vet's office it's like my brains just spilled right out of my ears.


they might be feeding a form of raw or they are topping food with raw or something. marketing doesn't do a swan dive unless there's reason to.

they go where the customers are......which is different than how it used to be in the dark ages of advertising.....when we told you what to buy and you bought it because of the clever line, the awesome, can't get it out of my head jingle.....

but these days.....the medical profession says oh no, heart disease and suddenly we're eating whole grains....and gyms are springing up right and left. it's the demand of the market.

suddenly, raw is starting to creep where it never crept before..it was this underground kind of thing.....and then ian billinghurst came out of the closet, for there was money to be made or whomever came before him....and tom lonsdale...

raw has been talked about, starting with whispers for how many years? at least three decades that i know of. that's my grandmother, my mother and me. 

that's a whole bunch of generations that are hearing about this thing called raw.

so now fresh pet is in the grocery store..

darwin's pet, honest kitchen, etc, etc, etc.

even the stuff we used to get for free because it was waste...we're paying out the nose because they know we're buying it for our dogs.

i mean, really....who eats testicles?

well, i do...but that's not the point.

there's a market. and, where there's a market, it is supplied and the price is priced accordingly. 

G'd bless capitalism and entrepreneurs.


----------



## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

*Mainstream raw*

I totally agree with Re. My Grandmother was always giving our dogs trimming from raw meat she was preparing for dinner. Since changing over our own dogs to raw I now know quite a few people who have been feeding generations of dogs raw - cloe to thirty years for some of these people. They just did not talk about it because other people treated them so poorly when it came out. Now they are feeling almost mainstream.


----------



## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

I am only socially awkward when Buck is not with me. In Petsmart or Home Depot or any other place I can have Buck by my side and I can rip into someone who calls my dogs emaciated or tells me I am going to kill them (strangely, I get asked what I feed CONSTANTLY!) but stick me in a dog free grocery store and I hide behind Nick at the register. So I can definitely understand the horrible feeling of having a serious lack of confidence. Add in your job and that makes it ten times worse. 

Honestly, though, I don't see how Petsmart could even threaten your job over what you choose to feed your dog in your own home. If they were that touchy about their foods being promoted I would have been banned from Petsmart by now because nearly every time we go I end up causing a family or two to walk out empty handed after I tell them where Naturally4Paws is (they carry the good dog food as well as have a bunch of raw freezers). I used to work at Petsmart and none of the groomers ever bought their supplies from Petsmart. Even the dremels came from somewhere else. If they were that adamant about where their employees buy things and what they feed their own dogs the groomers would have to buy all of their supplies from the store. 

I don't really think it is possible for them to even threaten you with your job if you were to just say, "I feed my dogs a Prey Model Raw diet" and leave it at that. I agree with the others. If someone asks you about it tell them you would be happy to discuss it with them privately after class because it is not the time nor place to do so at the moment. If your trainer tries to press you to feed kibble just simply say, "Thank you for your advice but I am happy with the choice I have made". Say everything in a respectful tone and you shouldn't have any problems. 

I feel very lucky to be able to have the trainer I do. She knows I feed raw and loves that I do. The labrador/poodle mix in our class is, from what I heard tonight, converting to raw (although they tried to start with pork first!) and our trainer is helping them. The boston's family, on the other hand, still can't seem to remember what food they feed Bradley, but they switched from Beneful to a much better brand (again with our trainer's help). Because Naturally4Paws is a small, mom and pop shop, there really isn't a whole lot of product pushing that goes on. Instead of getting those crappy milk bone treats that Petsmart gives out at the register, these guys give out packets of ZiwiPeak or dehydrated liver.

I don't know if you are going to do any classes after the puppy class but are there any small places that you could take Huginn to instead of Petsmart? I totally understand the whole free class thing but to me, it just doesn't sound worth it since you feel this pressured to lie about what you feed your dog.

Regardless, I do wish you luck. I know how hard standing up for your choices can be when you feel the way that you and I do sometimes.


----------



## LucyinSweden (Feb 20, 2012)

I'm so glad you just mentioned treats! I had been wondering what I would give Lucy during our training sessions and am very happy to see that ZiwiPeak can be purchased from Amazon UK! 

Huggin! Go you! If you feel unsure again, just come on back and we'll bolster you up!


----------



## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

I really like the ingredient list on the ZiwiPeak stuff. I need to do some more research on it but I think I am going to start buying the actual food as training treats because it is in tiny little squares and doesn't crumble like their treats do in the bag. Would those in the kibble section know much about it? It isn't raw by any means but I don't even know of it would be considered kibble! Haha. I suppose it wouldn't hurt to ask them. I'm sure at least someone over there will have experience with it.


----------



## LucyinSweden (Feb 20, 2012)

Beef (min. 90%), Chicory Syrup, Fish Oil, Lecithin, Parsley

Those are the ingredients listed and that's probably the smallest list I've ever seen.


----------



## DaneLover228 (Nov 29, 2011)

I don't think you'll lose your job over this. I've done all of Montys training classes at petsmart. I actually got my trainer to start feeding her dog raw. And then she got 2 other employees there to start feeding raw.

But if you are nervous about it, just say you feed a homemade diet. No one will question that. If they want to think that you cook it, let them...you didn't lie. And they probably will think you cook it...There was a Blue Buffalo rep at petsmart once and she was asking me what I fed Monty. I said I feed him a raw diet because of health issues. She said that if I ever didn't have time to cook Montys food, I should try their grain free food. I just shook my head and agreed.


----------



## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

DaneLover228 said:


> I don't think you'll lose your job over this. I've done all of Montys training classes at petsmart. I actually got my trainer to start feeding her dog raw. And then she got 2 other employees there to start feeding raw.
> 
> But if you are nervous about it, just say you feed a homemade diet. No one will question that. If they want to think that you cook it, let them...you didn't lie. And they probably will think you cook it...There was a Blue Buffalo rep at petsmart once and she was asking me what I fed Monty. I said I feed him a raw diet because of health issues. She said that if I ever didn't have time to cook Montys food, I should try their grain free food. I just shook my head and agreed.


I had a BB rep tell me not too long ago, "Well, when you get sick of feeding raw..."


----------



## GoingPostal (Sep 5, 2011)

I buy the ziwipeak venison for my ferrets, they won't touch the venison I have raw because it's ground but one likes the air dried or whatever and I've been giving some as treats to the dogs, same with vital essentials freeze dried raw, it's great for a high value dog treat and you don't have to worry about nasty crap, plus that stuff runs around the same price as regular "treats" anyways.


----------



## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

We have a great bucket of freeze dried liver but the chunks are too big to use as training treats and are to awkward to be broken up without actually cutting it. And the SMELL! Good golly it stinks to high Heaven! The Ziwipeak doesn't smell and I love the little squares it comes in. It costs less than the freeze dried liver we buy. So there's another plus!


----------



## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

Dude and Bucks Mamma said:


> We have a great bucket of freeze dried liver but the chunks are too big to use as training treats and are to awkward to be broken up without actually cutting it. And the SMELL! Good golly it stinks to high Heaven! The Ziwipeak doesn't smell and I love the little squares it comes in. It costs less than the freeze dried liver we buy. So there's another plus!


I believe Natalie and Jon use it as treats....


----------



## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

The liver or the ZiwiPeak?


----------



## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

Dude and Bucks Mamma said:


> The liver or the ZiwiPeak?


ZiwiPeak silly!:tongue:


----------



## Imgliniel (Sep 1, 2011)

Ziwipeak = best training treat ever! haha. I also use it as treats for my two PMR kitties. With the recent China treat debacle I have stopped buying pretty much everything else but ziwipeak, and dehydrated lamb lung from a local store. Everything else my mom makes for me. (she is the dehydrator guru I swear, I currently have chicken breast jerky, bacon wrapped yam sticks, chicken wrapped yam sticks, and chicken skin crisps). But they are generally to big for training, the lamb lung breaks up small easily, and the ziwi is already small. Plus if I want to do an extended training session and feed basically an entire meal of ziwi as treats I don't feel bad. 

Man, if I stayed in the closet about all my life choices things would be tough! (no I am not a lesbian, haha, but I am Wiccan). I agree with everyone who said it is sad you feel pressured but good for you for going for it. I highly doubt they can fire you for honestly responding to a question about your personal choices, as longh as you don't outright start telling people everything they sell here is crap and I would never feed any of it to my dog, haha.


----------



## Huginn (Nov 21, 2011)

I talked to one of my friends yesterday who was a manager last year and he said even if there are a lot of complaints, nothing will really happen. I have been talked to by a manager before for suggesting things to customers that we don't sell or when a customer comes in looking for something we don't sell, instead of suggesting a different product, I tell them what store sells it. He said that technically, while PetsMart would like to have me recommend their products and use them, they can't do anything for something I do outside of work. So, now I feel a little better about that. 
It's just the scary part of dealing with the trainer and her attitude towards everything that isn't what she does. . . She's huge on scientific research. Which means she advocates for corn meal, wheat gluten and rawhide, because they are "highly digestible" products. . . and apparently I waste my money on bully sticks and dried trachea.


----------



## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Rawhide is digestible? What planet does she live on? Even people in the pockets of the pet food companies don't think that.


----------



## Huginn (Nov 21, 2011)

Ya, I wanted to scream when she told the parents of the little mini schnauzer puppy that. . . I'm hoping they come in one of these days while I am on the clock and can talk to them without her there. I'd hate to see that little pup have something bad happen to him.


----------



## Huginn (Nov 21, 2011)

Imgliniel said:


> Ziwipeak = best training treat ever! haha. I also use it as treats for my two PMR kitties. With the recent China treat debacle I have stopped buying pretty much everything else but ziwipeak, and dehydrated lamb lung from a local store. Everything else my mom makes for me. (she is the dehydrator guru I swear, I currently have chicken breast jerky, bacon wrapped yam sticks, chicken wrapped yam sticks, and chicken skin crisps). But they are generally to big for training, the lamb lung breaks up small easily, and the ziwi is already small. Plus if I want to do an extended training session and feed basically an entire meal of ziwi as treats I don't feel bad.
> 
> Man, if I stayed in the closet about all my life choices things would be tough! (no I am not a lesbian, haha, but I am Wiccan). I agree with everyone who said it is sad you feel pressured but good for you for going for it. I highly doubt they can fire you for honestly responding to a question about your personal choices, as longh as you don't outright start telling people everything they sell here is crap and I would never feed any of it to my dog, haha.


I have a huge issue with being forward about things. . . I am trying really hard. I haven't even told my parents in a straightforward way that I am an atheist and interested in goddess worshipping religions and actual paganism (not the christian definition) for fear that they would be disappointed in me. Having Huginn helps my confidence a bit, but I am still a wuss lol. 
If I can stand by my decision to be outspoken about this it may give me the push I need to have more back bone.


----------



## Huginn (Nov 21, 2011)

So, yesterday at work the trainer and I were some how discussing Royal Canin and how we both think all the "research" they do is B.S. The she brought up that she was reading the news letter from the Veterinary School at Michigan State, and they had an article that said "it is a myth that dogs do not need grains" and how she wanted to post it next to the grain free section of our dog food so that everyone knew they were doing their dogs an injustice by feeding them grain free. . . now I am even more reassured she is going to not like hearing this from me. 
My big boss nixed the idea of bringing in the info I have, he said that if the research/vet who promotes it didn't come from Michigan State she won't believe it or even acknowledge that the study has been done. So basically, I am just sticking to my guns knowing that she's going to attempt to run me into the ground. A couple of us have been toying with the idea of me talking to her about it before hand, but have just decided that it would be better to shock her with it because she won't have the time to properly prepare her argument. 
We are trying to figure out a way that I can video it with my cell phone with out it being super obvious lol. I am really happy that I have a lot of coworkers willing to back me up on this, and some of them are thinking of coming to take in the show. . . so it's good to know that for once I am not over reacting or over thinking how this is going to turn out since they all gave me the same face when I said I was going to have to tell her. . .


----------



## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

I still think you are worrying too much. Don't appear nervous and just say that you feed a PMR diet as casually as you would say that you feed Iams. If she tries to argue with you in class all you have to do is tell her that you do not feel that this is the place nor the time to have that particular discussion (because it is a training class not debate class) and tell her that you can agree to disagree. 

If she wants to grill you about it after class, direct her to PMR.com and tell her you feel that this is inappropriate. The thing is, you aren't obligated to justify the way you feed your dog in your own home and on your own time.


----------



## bridget246 (Oct 26, 2011)

Dude and Bucks Mamma said:


> I still think you are worrying too much. Don't appear nervous and just say that you feed a PMR diet as casually as you would say that you feed Iams. If she tries to argue with you in class all you have to do is tell her that you do not feel that this is the place nor the time to have that particular discussion (because it is a training class not debate class) and tell her that you can agree to disagree.
> 
> If she wants to grill you about it after class, direct her to PMR.com and tell her you feel that this is inappropriate. The thing is, you aren't obligated to justify the way you feed your dog in your own home and on your own time.


Iams! If you tell me you feed Iam's you had better be nervous around me. I will attempt to destroy your dog food before they eat anymore of it.


----------



## wolfsnaps88 (Jan 2, 2012)

Oh I would love to see a video


----------



## bridget246 (Oct 26, 2011)

I almost forgot. We covered that in our class. What treats are you giving? When it was my turn the teacher had a make sure he heard me. Raw chicken. Oh... interesting.


----------



## Huginn (Nov 21, 2011)

For treats he gets the wellness salmon soft treats, I am almost out and then will be getting dogfood rolls. The treats luckily haven't effected our transition cuz he only gets them like once a week, I tried dehydrated chicken breast but it didn't have enough smell to it. 

I am trying to get the most confidence I can, but I am generally a very nervous person. . . so its gonna be tough.


----------



## bridget246 (Oct 26, 2011)

Huginn said:


> For treats he gets the wellness salmon soft treats, I am almost out and then will be getting dogfood rolls. The treats luckily haven't effected our transition cuz he only gets them like once a week, I tried dehydrated chicken breast but it didn't have enough smell to it.
> 
> I am trying to get the most confidence I can, but I am generally a very nervous person. . . so its gonna be tough.


I didn't even think about it. It just came out before I even knew what I said. Sounded a lot better than hot dogs.


----------



## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

bridget246 said:


> Iams! If you tell me you feed Iam's you had better be nervous around me. I will attempt to destroy your dog food before they eat anymore of it.


Relax. My point is that Iams is a popular dog food that , unless you are one of us crazy dog people, it isn't likely to be a big deal to most people. 


Tif, have you tried something like freeze dried liver? It stinks to high Heaven and both of our dogs, even non-food crazy Dude, will do anything for a piece.


----------



## Huginn (Nov 21, 2011)

Abi suggested that I avoid it at first because it might be too rich for him. But liver was my initial plan. . .


----------



## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

Huginn said:


> Abi suggested that I avoid it at first because it might be too rich for him. But liver was my initial plan. . .


Oh, yea. That's right. I forget your still working with a pup. Well, when he can handle his organs, the freeze dried liver is something my boys go nuts over. I don't know that freeze dried would effect him as much as fresh though. We use it for training treats nearly every day. Dude is VERY sensitive to organs but these, no matter how much he has, don't seem to effect him one bit. It's up to you but I'll let you know if I think of anything else that's smelly.


----------



## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

I would LOVE to see a video of this...maybe can you take a purse or bag and prop your phone up in a pocket and then just before it is your turn to state what Hueg is fed turn it on??
But I DO agree with the others(coworkers) better to "ambush" her with it then allow her time for rebuttal before hand...with how "M" is, itll be better all around!:tongue:



Dude and Bucks Mamma said:


> Tif, have you tried something like freeze dried liver? It stinks to high Heaven and both of our dogs, even non-food crazy Dude, will do anything for a piece.





Huginn said:


> Abi suggested that I avoid it at first because it might be too rich for him. But liver was my initial plan. . .


Being Rhett's brother(and you know his issues) I would be more willing to chance freeze dried liver(once his current tummy troubles are done) then processed treats.....but you know me...and that is just me!!:tongue:


----------



## Huginn (Nov 21, 2011)

Well Ajax ate my purse. . . but I am going to try and figure something out before tonight.


----------



## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

Huginn said:


> Well Ajax ate my purse. . . but I am going to try and figure something out before tonight.


Ah, yes I forgot that!!

I dunno, if it was me I would just be holding it!Lol


----------



## Huginn (Nov 21, 2011)

I've been trying to be polite and have my phone off during the time, but this might require a fail in politeness. It should only be the first 20 min of class or the last 20 min, I honestly can't remember how she does it. 
Lol, too bad we aren't still in the same city you could come with me and be my camera lady!


----------



## Huginn (Nov 21, 2011)

Alright here we go. . . class is in an hour-ish . . . will update tonight with what happened as we are heading out now.

My stomach is doing flips . . .


----------



## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Huginn said:


> Alright here we go. . . class is in an hour-ish . . . will update tonight with what happened as we are heading out now.
> 
> My stomach is doing flips . . .


Good luck. We are all sending good vibes your way. I can't wait to hear how it went.


----------



## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

Huginn said:


> Alright here we go. . . class is in an hour-ish . . . will update tonight with what happened as we are heading out now.
> 
> My stomach is doing flips . . .


Im thinking about you Tif!!!:hug:


----------



## chewice (Jan 1, 2012)

OOOOHHH the suspense! Ive been reading carefully everyday wondering!


----------



## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

You go girlfriend. We'll be laughing about this next week, wait and see!!!


----------



## Huginn (Nov 21, 2011)

So, it wasn't too bad. . . when I walked in (I always go early to let Huginn visit with my coworkers) she asked me if I brought my bag of food. . . I told her that I feed raw actually and she asked if we sell it in the store. . . I told her it wasn't a commercial food. She asked me if I had an ingredients list I could read from. . . I told her I didnt because I buy meat from the store and feed it to him, and at the moment it was bone in chicken. . . she told me "nevermind, you don't have to tell me. I'll just pull a bag of something off of the shelf for you to read." 
Lucky me, I had to read the Pedigree ingredients. . . 
So, the things we "learned" tonight:
1) By-products have a lot of nutritional value
2) Corn is a wonderful ingredient with a lot of nutritional benefits, you just don't want it to be the first ingredient
3) It is better to have corn as a grain than it is rice
4) Brewer's Rice is a wonderful ingredient
5) Beet pulp is an amazing pre-biotic, not a filler

And the things that she was staring only at me when she was saying:
1) Dogs are omnivores, they require grains
2) Blue Buffalo Wildnerness is garbage because it looks at dogs as carnivores, that is why they have a wolf on the front and all that grain free is is a gimmick to make money

However, after she told us that dogs require grains and are not wolves, she told us that a wild dog kills and eats a whole animal (therefore it eats the by-products too). Now, if a dog eats a whole animal in the wild, but needs grains. . . grains that should be cooked. . . how do they get it? 
She tried to convince one of the ladies that she should not be feeding TOTW, because it is one of those gimmick foods that says dogs are carnivores. . . 
Oh and apparently, Pro Plan is a premium dog food. . . 
So, at the end of class there is only me not feeding Pro Plan, I believe I saw the TOTW feeder leave with a small bag of Pro Plan. . . It makes me sad, I wasn't even able to say that I didn't feed the Pedigree. . . . 
I am actually more angry than I would have been if she had argued with me. . . instead I didn't even get to say that I believe dogs ARE carnivores. . .



One last thing, she also told us that the type of protein you have in your food doesn't matter it is just a different flavor, not a different source of nutrients and they should ALL have chicken meal in them to be considered a decent food anyway.


----------



## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

It sounds like it went better than you thought it would but why didn't you decline to read the Pedigree ingredient list? Being a raw feeder, you can't let people push around like your trainer did. She didn't have the right to hide what you feed from everyone else. She is not your boss or your mother or anyone else who you need to be afraid of. 

Situations like this is why raw feeding is still stuck in the dark ages. So many raw feeders are ok with avoiding the subject of food because they are afraid of the way people will react. We know that what we are doing for our dogs is the best thing we could do for them. So why are we so afraid? 

I will never be able to lie and say that I have always been the kind of person who can find a way to change the topic of conversation to raw no matter what the conversation is. When we first started feeding raw and I had to take Buck in to our vet I was terrified that the food question would come up. Turns out my vet has been feeding raw for 15 years. No biggie. In a couple of years, if Nick reenlists, I will have to vet hunt again and who knows what they will say when I tell them. None of my family back home knows. I used to be worried about what they would say, especially my cheap grandfather who thinks spending time and money on animals is ridiculous and a waste of time (ok, that was makes me a LITTLE nervous. haha) but you know what? I don't care. He feeds his dogs a mediocre kibble (Kirkland) and my mom and stepdad feed their girls Pedigree. If they want to condemn raw, fine. I will just take my knowledge that my dogs are eating healthier than theirs, that my 8 year old dog has better teeth than their year old pup, and that our 11 month (my Buck) and year old (their boxer girl, Charlie) pups will go in two different medical directions later in life. 

I probably sound like a you-know-what, but I feel like she made you ashamed and embarrassed of what you feed when you are doing the right thing for Huginn and you shouldn't have to feel that way. After what you said about tonight's class, it's clear that she knows nothing about canine nutrition. She may be a dog trainer but YOU are the one with the superior canine nutrition knowledge. Even the kibble feeders on this forum would be appalled at the things she said tonight. Corn? Brewers rice? By-products? Really? 

Tonight is done and over with and you did what you felt was necessary but the next time you face this situation again, remember, you DO know what you are doing when you feed Huginn raw. You DO know that you are feeding him something MUCH better than most of the population and their Purina. You are doing nothing wrong. 

If you take any more classes, I suggest taking classes somewhere else so that you can be honest about what you feed and you don't feel pressured because you are training under a co-worker. I think it would benefit you and your fears of standing up for yourself about raw. You wouldn't feel like anything was at stake. I know how it feels. I hope I don't come across sounding condescending. I'm not saying any of this because I think what you did was stupid or wrong or anything ridiculous like that. I think it was great that you had the courage to actually tell her what you feed regardless of what she told you to read for the class! You weren't even sure you were going to be able to do that! It's a step in the right direction, for sure. The dog world is the only place I am not afraid. Everywhere else I am as fearful as Buck faced with a space heater.


----------



## wolfsnaps88 (Jan 2, 2012)

Dude and Bucks Mama, I couldn't have said it better myself.

Huginn I wish I cuold take this class with you and voice OUR opinion on the matter, as well as inform the other class participants of ALL the choices out there for feeding their dog and not just Pro Plan. But then again, I don't know if I would want to hand over my money to this person. You are getting free classes, right? I sure hope so. 

And I hope Buck overcomes his space heater fear! HA!


----------



## Makovach (Jan 24, 2012)

I think this is just terrible. 

1: A dog trainer is a dog trainer, not a nutritionist. There for I don't feel it is right for them to dictate what is right and wrong in dog food. Esp. with out proper knoledge. 

2: If I were you, I would have refused to take the pedigree. I would have told her if she has a problem with it, thats her issue. You have the right as a customer (not being there to get paid) to voice your opinion on what you feed. 

3: Where in the heck does she get this stuff? It sounds to me like she just bases her belief off of the food she feeds and tried to make it out to be a great food. By this switching dogs being carnivores to omnivores. I'm sorry, but she doesn't have this master power that lets her change the years of reserach and proof of dogs being CARNIVORES. 

4: I would have asked for her proof, AND brought all my own proof against what she belives. How all that crap she says in in a "quality" kibble (corn, beet pulp, byproducts) is just crap and not needed or species appropriate. And showed her all the information on how raw is species appropriate.

My family doesn't agree with PMR. They think its nasty and I'm wasteing money. Thats fine, cuz that's there opinion and its MY dog. I know my dogs will be getting what they need and be more healthy and sound on the raw diet. Atleast you can take comfort in what you are feeding Huggin. Too bad those people got so poorly missled in your class. And I think its terrible she subjected you to pedigree


----------



## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

Tif, you HAVE to let me know if she ever transfers to Kitsap County so I can take her class! Hahahaha.

I think it would have helped if there was another raw feeder in the group. I doubt you would have been so nervous because you wouldn't have been "the outcast". Oh well. It's over now. You can breathe again!


----------



## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

I'm sorry it didn't end up with everyone running off to the PMR website - but in the end, you have to work there. 

She sounds like she's narrow minded and a bully. I can understand why you read the ingredients from the Pedigree - I mean, hell, she pounded down a paying customer enough to force her to buy Purina!!! That poor dog.

Anyway, the main goal was not not cause you a bunch of grief at work. Hopefully, you succeeded at that.

From my own experiences, PetSmart training classes are the bottom of the barrel (no offense). This just kind of reinforces that for me - people that know very little pretending like they do, and charging good money for it.

Frankly, i think if she were a good dog trainer she wouldn't be working at PetSmart. Apparently she's not quite ready to give nutritional advice, either, but PetSmart supports her spewing that crap.

And you know people like that are hard to work with. You don't want her going on some kind of campaign to get rid of you. I think you did good.


----------



## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Dude and Bucks Mamma said:


> Tif, you HAVE to let me know if she ever transfers to Kitsap County so I can take her class! Hahahaha.
> 
> I think it would have helped if there was another raw feeder in the group. I doubt you would have been so nervous because you wouldn't have been "the outcast". Oh well. It's over now. You can breathe again!


yes, of all the people on this board it's too bad no one lived close enough to go - but even if they had, you have to know by the first of the class she's going to be forcing an employee of the store to read a pedigree label!


----------



## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

Just her personality in general makes me want to take a class with her. It would have been interesting, to say the least. Putting Abi and I in a class like that TOGETHER would have been interesting as well...

Man, we raw feeders need to start a colony where we can all live in the same area and be able to participate in the same activities...


----------



## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

I used to give obedience classes at Petco - this was when trainers were independent contractors. They switched to making their trainers their employees. I refused to teach their junk food nonsense as well as their silly and inept methods. This makes me so glad i am not affiliated with them in any way.


----------



## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

After reading your update, I just want to SMACK that woman! She sounds like a down right bitch! I would have had a GREAT time debating her sorry ass in that class! What an ignorant woman! Gah that makes me so mad that she made you read that ingredient list. Why would you allow her to do that? My face would have been burning in shame if that were me. I don't take bullies very easily...why is such a terrible person allowed to spread such trash! She is doing dogs a disservice.


----------



## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

my best friends would probably be good with this lady. She feeds pro plan and claims her dog "love it". DUH she's a flipping dog! She would eat any garbage!


----------



## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

Huginn said:


> So, it wasn't too bad. . . when I walked in (I always go early to let Huginn visit with my coworkers) she asked me if I brought my bag of food. . . I told her that I feed raw actually and she asked if we sell it in the store. . . I told her it wasn't a commercial food. She asked me if I had an ingredients list I could read from. . . I told her I didnt because I buy meat from the store and feed it to him, and at the moment it was bone in chicken. . . she told me "nevermind, you don't have to tell me. I'll just pull a bag of something off of the shelf for you to read."
> Lucky me, I had to read the Pedigree ingredients. . .
> So, the things we "learned" tonight:
> 1) By-products have a lot of nutritional value
> ...


i'm glad you made it through.

i'm sorry that she is an ignorant idiot who has no idea what she's talking about.

most of all, i'm sorry that the attendees prove that we are truly a nation of sheep.


----------



## Huginn (Nov 21, 2011)

I kind of tried to take comfort in the fact that she was talking about how horrible Pedigree was, but I didn't understand why Pedigree was terrible and Purina was great, apart from the BHA that causes cancer. I mean the only difference is that in ProPlan it goes Chicken then Corn. . . but it is whole chicken so really the first ingredient is corn. . . which she argued that it is actually better because if the ingredients say a "meal" it means they bought it already cooked down from another company. . . but that doesnt make sense to me at all. 
She put one of my pet care coworkers next to me and had him read the bag of Simply Nourish, it was kind of better cuz I got to whisper all of my little opinions to him. . . which helped, but I was irritated by the end of the class and its the only time I haven't talked to her afterward. 
Besides this nutrition thing she is actually a decent person. She just only believes studies that are done by ONE vet school and anything they say is the law and it is written in gold. I know she has studies to back all of this stuff up, its the same garbage that Mythbuster and TheExpert were spewing at us a couple of months ago. . .its all the propaganda bogus studies that they teach in vet school and is paid for by the pet food companies. 

I am not planning on taking the next class from her, the only reason I did this one is that it was FREE and I wanted to see what goes into it. My store manager (who I don't like) is always pushing me to sell classes, because corporate is always pushing her. She does do a lot of things in the advanced classes that we aren't allowed by corporate to teach, since she was the founder of Spokane's fly ball league, she teaches fly ball in one of them, the basics of agility in another they are doing rally obedience in the next class. She has groups that keep coming back for more classes and the PetSmart curriculum runs out after three classes. 
However, I don't feel comfortable having my opinions stifled. I think if I was a paying customer and didn't have to work with her on a regular basis I would feel a little more comfortable in my opinions. I mean the worst opinion I have gotten from my coworkers is the one who had to read the bag last night and all he said was that I spoil Huginn. My other coworkers think if I am feeding Huginn this healthy I need to start treating myself better or he is going to outlive me lol. 
Anyway, it is over and next week is graduation. Huginn will be an AKC star puppy and I can then teach him to pass the CGC test on my own, since he will have all of the basics and then it is on to the Spokane Dog Training Club for agility. . . hopefully they are better, but who knows cuz this trainer is on their board. Seriously, if it has to do with dogs in Spokane she founded it or is on the board. . .


----------



## OnyxDog (Jun 15, 2011)

Liz said:


> I used to give obedience classes at Petco - this was when trainers were independent contractors. They switched to making their trainers their employees. I refused to teach their junk food nonsense as well as their silly and inept methods. This makes me so glad i am not affiliated with them in any way.


This is exactly why I left Petco when I got offered a much better job. I also make a lot more money training privately in the customer's home. I can promote raw if I want to, and I can recommend a better kibble if they won't do raw. The freedom to do so is exhilarating! My new boss is giving me the freedom to teach whatever I want in the new classes, so the correct nutrition information will definitely be part of it... including that dogs are CARNIVORES not omnivores!


----------



## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

Huginn said:


> My store manager (who I don't like) is always pushing me to sell classes, because corporate is always pushing her.


Maybe, when you move on from Petsmart, you could suggest that Petsmart stop pushing classes so hard. As a bather back in grooming, I was supposed to push classes if a dog gave me any problems. I did it three times. Every time, I felt ridiculous and obnoxious and the owner was offended. I never saw a single owner react positively to it from any of us in the grooming salon. 

About 8 weeks ago (before I was on a first name basis with everyone who works at our Petsmart since we hang out there all the time for socialization purposes) I was approached by an employee. I was standing in the toy aisle with Buck who was very quietly laying by my feet and watching my face with the kind of focus I expect him to have. This employee suggested that I enroll in training classes with Buck "because he is a hound and hounds can be stubborn and unintelligent". Now, Buck is the smartest dog I have ever owned. Yes, he is stubborn but he is, by no means, unintelligent. Needless to say, I was shocked that he would even say something like that. Until they realized that I wasn't there for advice, I was approached by employees at least every other time I was there. I don't know why they are so much worse than the store I worked at but Petsmart really needs to tone it down a bit with the training class suggestions.


----------



## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Dude and Bucks Mamma said:


> This employee suggested that I enroll in training classes with Buck "because he is a hound and hounds can be stubborn and unintelligent".


Now THAT'S a great selling plan! Tell people their dog is stupid  I'm sure people run right over to sign up after a great spiel like that.


----------



## Huginn (Nov 21, 2011)

I hate pushing classes, just like when I worked at the Home Depot I hated pushing credit cards and only asked once or twice a year. I get talked to a lot for not selling any, but honestly I work in the fish, we never really see dogs. . . I have only asked a couple of times and it was with people with young puppies who flat out told me they had no idea what they were doing and had never had a dog before or complained to me that the dog was hard to train. All I said was "have you thought about training classes?" and offered our trainer's card or to answer any questions they had. I have had training classes pushed on my in the Western WA stores with Huginn because "border collies are incredibly hard to train" and with Ajax because "beagles are stubborn" beagles are stubborn, but the 18 year old teaching the class in Federal Way who had never had a dog before he started working at PetSmart was not going to be able to help with our problem child. 
This class has been great for Huginn for socialization, but that is it. All of the other things we learned I was working on before the class started.


----------



## OnyxDog (Jun 15, 2011)

Huginn said:


> This class has been great for Huginn for socialization, but that is it. All of the other things we learned I was working on before the class started.


I didn't want my students at Petco to feel this way. I had to do a lot of research on my own to feel confident that I was providing quality information in my classes. I think I learned more about training doing my own research than I did in the training they gave me. I was lucky, and had a manager who let me kind of tweak things to fit more of what I wanted to teach. I still couldn't talk about raw, though.


----------



## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

I remember when I was a bather at Petco. We had to push the extra 2$ tooth upgrade. I sold the most but seriously, one tooth brushing isn't going to make a difference if they don't do it at home!


----------



## Huginn (Nov 21, 2011)

Pushing grooming for me is worse than pushing training. It's like I'm saying "Hey, your dog looks like Shit! You want a bath for it?" Excuse my language. . . 

I'm just really glad she doesn't work tonight. . .


----------



## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

I wonder how she will treat you now that she knows how much you oppose her.


----------



## Huginn (Nov 21, 2011)

That is a very good question . . . I suppose we shall find out next Tuesday


----------



## wolfsnaps88 (Jan 2, 2012)

Petco and Petsmart services are a joke. As a former department manager/dog trainer/grooming assistant at Petco I can tell you the prices are ridiculous and what you get for your money is a joke. They only allow you to train from their regimen and what you get for the price most people already know how to do. Sit? Really? Stay, down loose leash walking and leave it for over a hundred bucks? Please. And forget socializing at Petco (at least at my region). They do not allow dogs within three feet of each other in case they fight and are a liability. 

They wanted me to talk nutrition in order to sell food the company sold. Also, I was to push add ons like brushes and shampoos. It was all a sales pitch and I eventually quit. And to ask groomers to sell training classes may sound good in theory but when I worked over there people would get pretty offended if you even mentioned it. I even lost a few customers despite my humble, honest , super sweet approach.

Do yourself a favor if you are looking for a dog trainer. Find and hire a REAL dog trainer. Not just anyone who is willing to take the job. And don't expect small class size unless sales are down. I was not supposed to teach a class with less than a certain amount of people and I hear Petsmart is worse. They want HUGE classes at a time meaning less one on one time. Grooming is worse. At Petsmart they want to churn those dogs out as fast as possible to make the most amount of money. I just saw an article about a Petco in hawaii where they accidentily cut off a dog's ear and glued it back on. 

Sorry, not wanting to go off topic, just passionate about my dislike of these big box companies that are taking over and driving mom and pop stores out of business. 

HUGIIN, expect them to stay on your ass even if you only work aquatics. Money talks. Sell Sell Sell, even if its not your realm. Their theory is even fish people might have dogs so start the conversation. Well, I tried that and many fish people who do not want or like dogs were put off with yet another sales pitch. At my store, some wise guy in the district came up with this idea of having a chart to write down everyone you talk to about services and track the conversions. What a joke. As if we didnt have enough to do. feed the animals, clean cages, customer service, tend to the sick animals, count drawers, stock shelves, order inventory, and yes...write down that Mrs. Jones MIGHT be interested in a bath for her dog. Really? REALLY? Short staffed and overworked, I am glad I don't work there anymore.


Ok, rant over.


----------



## Huginn (Nov 21, 2011)

wolfsnaps88 said:


> Petco and Petsmart services are a joke. As a former department manager/dog trainer/grooming assistant at Petco I can tell you the prices are ridiculous and what you get for your money is a joke. They only allow you to train from their regimen and what you get for the price most people already know how to do. Sit? Really? Stay, down loose leash walking and leave it for over a hundred bucks? Please. And forget socializing at Petco (at least at my region). They do not allow dogs within three feet of each other in case they fight and are a liability.
> 
> They wanted me to talk nutrition in order to sell food the company sold. Also, I was to push add ons like brushes and shampoos. It was all a sales pitch and I eventually quit. And to ask groomers to sell training classes may sound good in theory but when I worked over there people would get pretty offended if you even mentioned it. I even lost a few customers despite my humble, honest , super sweet approach.
> 
> ...


Are you kidding me? Cut the ear off? 

As long as my store manager leaves me alone I like my job. The assistant store manager and my pet care manager are on my side and they don't care what I sell as long as my customers leave happy and I get my job done. I have been here on and off for four years. . . 
I am happy that I can take a training class somewhere else, and I only did it because it was free. I definitely would not pay for a class like this.


----------



## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

At Naturally4Paws I pay $90 for a 6 week class with a makeup class on the Saturday of the 6th week that you can attend even if you didn't miss a class. All of the classes are the same price whether they be basic obedience, intermediate obedience, advanced obedience/CGC, Rally-O, Trick/Pre-Agility or Socialize and Exercise (which is really neat because you leave the store and take your dogs on hikes with a group and the socialization doesn't all take place just in the same room over and over again).

Noel teaches the obedience classes and has multiple aussies (my favorite is Yippy) and a rescue chihuahua. She has been training in the area for 20 years (I don't know how long before that) and has been competeing in obedience for as long. She also does agility with her dogs. 

Sandy is the handling class instructor currently shows her Cairn Terriers and her Newfoundlands and has, in the past, handled Duck Tollers and a bunch of other breeds. 

I love small places like this because they don't usually have a huge number of trainers and they tend to stick to people who really know what they are doing rather than just letting anyone who qualifies teach there. I don't think I could ever get myself to take a Petsmart class but it would be interesting to go through the nutrition conversation there. Hahaha.

When I was a bather I had to push the packages too. I was always told to recommend the FURminator package when something like a GSD or a lab walked in even if I was booked and KNEW I wasn't going to be able to churn out the dogs on time. The rule was that you are supposed to inspect the dog before accepting it but our managers would get upset with us for taking the time to do it and, as a result, the bathers ended up with matted dogs who had to be trimmed by the groomers and we had to spend unnecessary time calling the customers to ask for their permission to do so. We actually got yelled at for not meeting the quota of nail trims and files. We recommended them left and right but there wasn't much we could do if no one came in for a nail trim or people declined when we suggested it. 

IMO, Petsmart is fine if you want to do an express bath (where the dog never goes into a kennel) but I would NEVER take my dog there for anything else. No one (at least not in ours) abuses dogs but it's just so stressful for them. The customers never hear how loud it is in the back and they never hear the dogs whining. It's not something I would do to my dogs. I take them to Naturally4Paws (yes, I do love that store! Hahaha) and use their hydrosurge and their velocity dryer (the sam stuff Petsmart has) and do it all myself. That way, while yes, being in the tub and the dryer might stress them out a bit, I am the one doing it to them, not some stranger.

End of rant.


----------



## wolfsnaps88 (Jan 2, 2012)

Petco employee allegedly cuts off dogs ear, glues it back on, civil suit filed


----------

