# Hydatid Tapeworms - treatment frequency in raw fed dogs



## Finster (Jan 11, 2011)

The insert in Bayer's tapeworm medication says, somewhat bizarrely, that dogs "should not be allowed to feed on offal from any species" and "do not allow access to the carcass of any animal"

To this I have to say "DUH, it's a *dog*. Of course it's going to eat animal carcasses!!! What else is it going to eat, cereal out of a packet?!" (Oh yeah, keep fogetting some people do that! :heh 

So, having got that off my chest, please someone tell me, is it really necessary to treat raw fed dogs every 6 weeks for Hydatid Tapeworm? How serious an issue is it? Our environment here is 'green suburban' with no sheep around, but the dog does eat raw meat from rural suppliers.

Thanks


----------



## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Well, not at all important. Maybe do a routine fecal check to see if your dog has bugs....but arbitrarily treat your dog for something that it may or may not have? Not necessary at all.


----------



## CavePaws (Jan 25, 2011)

When feeding raw how often do you think one should have fecal tests done on their dogs? I'm really curious about this because after reading up a bit more on different types of parasitic worms that can come from raw meat I got a little shiver down my spine. I know it's not impossible for a dog to have worms even if they aren't eating raw, but I think the fact should be faced that worms are a bit more of a concern than they would be if raw meat were not being fed. I know we buy human grade meat, but most of the time people expect human grade meat like chicken, beef, and pork to be cooked. 

So how many months should one go without having it tested?


----------



## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Once a year, maybe twice if you're worried about it a lot.

What articles were you reading on worms carried by raw meat? Which particular worms are you concerned about?


----------



## CavePaws (Jan 25, 2011)

As I typed that last night I can't remember what articles they were, sorry. I do know that where the journey began was going to google and typing in hydatid worm, then dogs came up as the next suggested thing to add in by google. :] I do love google chrome. I probably clicked as many of the links on the first page as I could before finding some other worm to look up.

I'm not nearly as worried about it right now as I was last night. All I want to know is will I see symptoms of parasites every time the dog has one? Or is it possible for my dog to have a worm and show no symptoms at all? If it's possible for me to see no symptoms I'll probably start having it done more often to be safe.


----------



## cast71 (Sep 16, 2010)

Feed your dog raw chopped garlic cloves and never have to worry about parasites, including heartworm. No need for toxic pesticides or wasting money on testing. I'm done with that game;0)

Garlic for Dogs | Is Garlic Safe for Dogs?


----------



## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

It depends on the parasite. Sometimes you won't know until disease sets in. Tapeworms of the _Teania sp._ and _Dipylidium sp._ you'll know because gravid proglottids will come out of your dogs rectum (look like moving cucumber seeds or grains of rice depending on the species). Other parasites will cause diarrhea.


----------



## CavePaws (Jan 25, 2011)

Yep, I definitely know what tapeworms look like...Every litter of puppies I've found had worms when I first got them, luckily, all survived their ordeal.  I'll probably just have it checked a couple times a year, definitely at their exams. 

So, I'm sure garlic can be really beneficial to dogs in small doses, Cast71. Do you use a certain formula or dosage for your dogs? What about garlic powder, I would assume fresh garlic would be best though...


----------



## cast71 (Sep 16, 2010)

I use 2.5 fresh chopped garlic cloves, according to that size chart on the page linked. 5 days on and 2 days off or every other day. Whichever is easier. You do want to take a break from all supplements. Make sure you let it sit 5-10 minutes and not longer. 5-10 minutes makes the Allicin more potent, while longer degrades it. As far as pills and garlic dust, it's useless other than for spicing up your meals. I only recently discovered that. Wasted alot of money on useless garlic supplements. The only one that should be taken for medicinal purposes, is raw garlic;0) It is safe at low doses. Large dosages like a whole bulb are dangerous, but so is water and salt at large dosages. I've been feeding garlic for 6 or 7 years now and I know someone that has been feeding it for 30 years to there dogs. Hardly ever have to goto the vet, unless for physical injuries;0)


----------



## CavePaws (Jan 25, 2011)

2.5 fresh cloves a dog a day? Do they like the taste, how would I go about getting them to eat it? I know they'd go for it in olive oil...but would you recommend that? Sorry I'm picking your brain for so much info, but I really do believe in the benefits of garlic because I eat it a lot myself and I'm a pretty healthy kid.

Our dogs rarely go to the vet themselves, they're all fantastic looking but a good diet and supplements like fresh garlic can only help. :]


----------



## cast71 (Sep 16, 2010)

I swallow not chew;0) 1 chopped garlic clove, 3x a day, 5 days a week. No, I don't have bad breath. I've asked people that wouldn't lie. They be the first to crack on me ahahaha. I never get sick;0) My sister who works out of peoples homes, started taking it and she's not into holistic stuff at all. She couldn't believe she didn't catch what everyone had. It has natural antiviral, antifungal, antibiotic, antiseptic, anti-parasite properties;0) Lower blood pressure and cholesterol. There's probably more benefits;0) I just chop, load it on a table spoon, load it in my mouth and guzzle water;0) For your dog, it depends what you feed. If you feed dogfood, mix it into a tablespoon of wet. Add 2 tablespoons of raw apple cider vinegar, to keep fleas off your dog;0) If your feeding raw, mix it into something wet like eggs, bloody liver....whatever;0) If you cover it in some blood, there guaranteed to eat every bit;0) Here's the dosage chart.

10 to 15 pounds - half a clove
20 to 40 pounds - 1 clove
45 to 70 pounds - 2 cloves
75 to 90 pounds - 2 and a half cloves
100 pounds and over - 3 cloves


----------



## CavePaws (Jan 25, 2011)

Feeding it with some egg yolk or blood will probably do the trick. :] Thanks! I didn't want to do the olive oil thing, I've only ever used olive oil when someone seems constipated, does the trick reallllllll well. 

Yay, can't wait to start! Looks like I'll be getting some in bulk.  For five dogs, seems I'll be feeding quite a bit of garlic...like 8.5 cloves a day not including me O__O


----------



## Finster (Jan 11, 2011)

Thanks for that. It's an interesting option. Does anyone have any links to formal research studies proving garlic's effects on worms in dogs?


----------



## cast71 (Sep 16, 2010)

There's as much formal research on garlic as there's on raw. I do have my own research;0) Dewormed my sisters lab;0) My dog has never had worms or any other parasite;0)


----------



## Adam76 (Dec 24, 2010)

I also mix some garlic into my dogs food and he loves the taste of it I'm sure your dogs will like it.


----------



## 3feathers (Oct 29, 2008)

A lot of the people that I know who feed raw also routinely use Diatomaceous Earth. Actually, I was surprised no one had mentioned this for worming. Safe and effective alternative to peticides also. There are two grades of it....so make sure to look for the food grade DE.


----------



## SilverBeat (Jan 16, 2011)

Finster said:


> Thanks for that. It's an interesting option. Does anyone have any links to formal research studies proving garlic's effects on worms in dogs?


I've noticed that "formal research studies" usually have something to do with a lot of money being forked over for something silly. But if you want some anecdotal evidence... Organic shepherds I know use a drench [like a big oral syringe] of garlic and Apple Cider Vinegar to worm their herds if need be. One farm I volunteered at abandoned this practice after they read, and then observed, that putting poultry [especially chickens and guinea hens] out to pasture where their sheep had just been, their sheep had NO worms! The birds sifted through the sheep manure and ate all the worm eggs and larvae, along with most of the other bugs in the field. Chickens are just so great 
So, garlic is an awesome wormer and great for the immune system, along with ACV, and food-grade Diatomaceous Earth... I could go on for days about how great that stuff is.


----------



## Finster (Jan 11, 2011)

Cool. I'm not wedded to formal studies - merely quite fond :hug:. My affection for anecdotes is not far off because they are, after all, just evidence unboxed. 

My next question is how best to determine whether the dog has worms or not, to appease my puppy-parent anxieties. e.g. Will it require...
- Taking poop to vets periodically for expensive tests?
- One's own microscope, the right book and a strong stomach?

:smile:


----------



## pandaparade (Dec 29, 2010)

Great information on this thread. I also wanted to know if you use the apple cider vinegar, you use it every day? Do they like that taste or does it blend in with an egg or something? Man, I love this site.


----------



## SilverBeat (Jan 16, 2011)

Finster said:


> Cool. I'm not wedded to formal studies - merely quite fond :hug:. My affection for anecdotes is not far off because they are, after all, just evidence unboxed.
> 
> My next question is how best to determine whether the dog has worms or not, to appease my puppy-parent anxieties. e.g. Will it require...
> - Taking poop to vets periodically for expensive tests?
> ...


It's my understanding that you could do either, though it does depend on what kind of worms you are looking for. Common parasites like roundworms and tapeworms, you can see with the naked eye. When I check foster rabbits' poop for worms, I just use a latex glove, good light and sometimes a magnifying glass. I think of their poops as little cocoa puffs [and no, that doesn't prevent me from enjoying *real* cocoa puffs] so it's really not that gross to me.


----------



## SilverBeat (Jan 16, 2011)

pandaparade said:


> Great information on this thread. I also wanted to know if you use the apple cider vinegar, you use it every day? Do they like that taste or does it blend in with an egg or something? Man, I love this site.


Apple Cider Vinegar is best used as an immune booster. The farm I was talking about uses the combination drench because drenching sheep is a pain in the butt so they get the wormer [garlic] plus the immune boost at the same time. I know many people who drink a small amount of ACV daily for the same reason, to help with immunity and overall health.
I did a quick google search and it looks like many people use ACV to relieve joint pain/arthritis, as well as itchiness--by spraying a 50/50 mix of ACV/water on their coat, and even adding a tiny amount to their drinking water [never give undiluted ACV] to help boost their immune system.


----------



## Unosmom (May 3, 2009)

you can also try diatomaceous earth (food grade), its supposed to be very effective against parasites.


----------



## cast71 (Sep 16, 2010)

I've used DE before, but stopped, since I give garlic 5 days a week. I have it sitting on my counter top in a jar, just forgot to mention it;0) You can use DE for killing insects around your house, so no need for toxic pesticides. I sprinkle it around the foundation and put 1 cup with 1 tablespoon of dish liquid in a pump sprayer. Than spray your lawn. No more nasty ticks;0) Reapply after it rains, since it will get washed away. I've used it to to wipe out a bed bug infestation. 100's of uses and it's a mechanical killer so bugs don't become immune to it. The oral dosage for deworming is 1 tablesoon;0) Always use food grade DE.

ACV is great! It has to be used properly or it can be dangerous. You have to dilute it. I either add 2 tablespoons to drinking water or mix it into some wet food. Always use raw organic. Supermarket stuff has the good stuff filtered out. I take it as well and it is a great immune booster. It boost your immune system, by making you ph alkaline. This in return promotes good bacteria and deters bad bacteria and fungus, which than boosts your immune;0) Like SilverBeat, I could go on talking forever on this stuff. Not only is it interesting, it works! You just have to know how to use them;0) All supplements should be taken 4or5 days a week and than have a break for2-3 days. Or you can take every other day. Whichever is easier. Good to see other holistic people on the forum;0)


----------



## Kofismom (Sep 14, 2010)

CavePaws said:


> 2.5 fresh cloves a dog a day? Do they like the taste, how would I go about getting them to eat it? I know they'd go for it in olive oil...but would you recommend that? Sorry I'm picking your brain for so much info, but I really do believe in the benefits of garlic because I eat it a lot myself and I'm a pretty healthy kid.
> 
> Kofi loves garlic! I dice it up and put in her boneless meal. I have never tried to give her the whole raw clove, just marinated from my salad. That's how I learned how much she loved it.


----------



## cast71 (Sep 16, 2010)

Giving the clove without chopping it, provides no health benefits. It must be chopped up and than let it sit between 5-10 minutes before feeding. Don't let it sit longer;0)


----------

