# Really worried about my dog



## Siena (Nov 7, 2010)

My 10 year old Rat Terrier, Lucky has been on the raw diet for about 6 months now and I gave him a chicken leg and a little ground beef yesterday. As I was cleaning up, he got into a bag of chicken hearts I must have left out. He ate about 10 hearts and probably threw up his whole meal from yesterday today. There was a lot of vomit and bile. I did miss a day of feeding the day before yesterday due to a shortage of food (that was my bad) so is it possible the throw up was a mixture between lots of organs and a missed day of feeding? What should I do? I left a chicken leg out in the fridge because there will be somebody at home I can call if he needs to be fed it, but should I fast him or feed it to him?
Thank you :frown:


----------



## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

I might be wrong here, or misunderstanding the time frame of when your dog threw up, but I would fast a day, then start back with the drumbstick. You may want to take the skin off as well.


----------



## Northwoods10 (Nov 22, 2010)

What time did he get into the hearts yesterday? 

You could probalby feed him a bit of bone in chicken tonight and see how he does. I'm sure he just at *too much* and hearts are pretty rich. I'm sure he might have some runny stools from the hearts too. The good thing is that chicken hearts aren't very big!


----------



## Siena (Nov 7, 2010)

He ate the hearts around 10:00 a.m yesterday. It just worries me because he's usually full of energy but he just wobbled around today. He did bark at somebody, so that's a good sign, sort of? I'll fast him until tonight I guess and give him a drum stick with a little meat and skin trimmed off.


----------



## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

Siena said:


> My 10 year old Rat Terrier, Lucky has been on the raw diet for about 6 months now and I gave him a chicken leg and a little ground beef yesterday. As I was cleaning up, he got into a bag of chicken hearts I must have left out. He ate about 10 hearts and probably threw up his whole meal from yesterday today. There was a lot of vomit and bile. I did miss a day of feeding the day before yesterday due to a shortage of food (that was my bad) so is it possible the throw up was a mixture between lots of organs and a missed day of feeding? What should I do? I left a chicken leg out in the fridge because there will be somebody at home I can call if he needs to be fed it, but should I fast him or feed it to him?
> Thank you :frown:


i'm confused about something, but that's nothing unusual....you didn't feed him organs, he got into hearts, which is a muscle...

when exactly did you miss a day of feeding....the day before he got into the hearts? is that right?

so now he's vomited his meal...and you're wondering whether or not to feed him today....

i'd feed him dinner....if you feed twice a day. i'd give him a drumstick and that's it.

if he throws that up, then fast him for a day, then start over with some backs....

i am not of the belief, though many are, that skipping meals is okay.

when a dog is transitioning, i feel and this is my personal opinion, that meals should not be skipped....let us know how he's doing.


----------



## Siena (Nov 7, 2010)

Right, I forgot hearts are a muscle. I'll give him a drumstick tonight. I missed a day of feeding the day before he got into the hearts because I had spilled a drink on the meat I had out so I wasn't going to feed them that. I'll give an update tomorrow.


----------



## Siena (Nov 7, 2010)

Apparently he's shaking and panting now, what should I do??


----------



## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

Siena said:


> Apparently he's shaking and panting now, what should I do??


Is it possible he got into something else, and its not related to the hearts at all? Shaking and panting? You might need to call the vet.


----------



## Siena (Nov 7, 2010)

I did call the vet, my brother took him a couple minutes ago.


----------



## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

Please keep us posted!


----------



## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

Siena said:


> Apparently he's shaking and panting now, what should I do??


sounds like he's hypoglycemic. doesn't take much with a dog.....don't feel badly. i'm sure we've all done worse....

think of it this way...he missed a meal, then barfed a meal....so his stomach is in need of food. i hope that's all it is...

let us know.


----------



## Montana (Apr 10, 2011)

Hope it's nothing too serious. Keep a close eye on him and do keep us posted!

Something that might ease your mind a bit is my own personal story. Long story short, my dog Montana ended up consuming over 4lbs of pure pork fat one day, on top of her regular meal! (She gets just under 1lb a day). She was barfing, pooping, and farting like crazy. Her stomach was extremely bloated, and all she would do for over a day is lie there and look miserable. I fasted her until the bloating and other problems subsided, and she was just fine. Good luck!


----------



## Siena (Nov 7, 2010)

I felt like I had to tell the vet about the raw diet but I stressed the fact that they have been doing really well. She said no more raw diet and to put him on a low fat diet though. He has elevated liver enzyme levels (I posted a thread about this before) too. Should I just post a new thread about what to do now?


----------



## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

Siena said:


> I felt like I had to tell the vet about the raw diet but I stressed the fact that they have been doing really well. She said no more raw diet and to put him on a low fat diet though. He has elevated liver enzyme levels (I posted a thread about this before) too. Should I just post a new thread about what to do now?


Don't stop raw, but let someone who is knowledgeable on things like this,like Natalie chime in and help you out. Vets don't have much of a clue on nutrition.


----------



## tem_sat (Jun 20, 2010)

Siena said:


> I felt like I had to tell the vet about the raw diet but I stressed the fact that they have been doing really well. She said no more raw diet and to put him on a low fat diet though. He has elevated liver enzyme levels (I posted a thread about this before) too. Should I just post a new thread about what to do now?


May I ask what part of Texas are you from? What was the vet's diagnosis? 

Did the vet recommend a low fat "prescription" diet? I hope not...

I truly hope your dog is feeling better and I can understand the stress you have been going through.


----------



## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

vomiting will elevate a dog's enzymes. the blood work is not accurate due to the circumstances

feed him a drumstick......which keeps it light and then watch him

make some chicken broth with a little salt to help restore his electrolytes.

it is good that you told him about raw. his answer tells me he knows nothing about dog nutrition.


----------



## TuckersMom (Apr 27, 2011)

Siena said:


> I felt like I had to tell the vet about the raw diet but I stressed the fact that they have been doing really well. She said no more raw diet and to put him on a low fat diet though. He has elevated liver enzyme levels (I posted a thread about this before) too. Should I just post a new thread about what to do now?


I totally understand how you feel and trust your rattie is feeling better now. If there is food within reach, a rattie will definitely go for it...I have found out the hard way also. It sounds like you're getting good advice here about liver enzyme levels. Please keep us posted on how he's doing!


----------



## Siena (Nov 7, 2010)

He's still pretty drowsy from the narcs that he was given for pain. I feel like this is all my fault for leaving them within his reach. I'm very worried because they said he should be perking up soon and he's an older dog. They told me to go to the emergency clinic if he begins having problems breathing so I'll probably stay up all night to monitor him. I just have a big fear of him dying because of this. 
The food that they recommended was prescription I believe. The name of it is: MRX RC Canine Gastrointestinal Low Fat dog food. Bleh.


----------



## TuckersMom (Apr 27, 2011)

Siena said:


> He's still pretty drowsy from the narcs that he was given for pain. I feel like this is all my fault for leaving them within his reach. I'm very worried because they said he should be perking up soon and he's an older dog. They told me to go to the emergency clinic if he begins having problems breathing so I'll probably stay up all night to monitor him. I just have a big fear of him dying because of this.
> The food that they recommended was prescription I believe. The name of it is: MRX RC Canine Gastrointestinal Low Fat dog food. Bleh.


How old is he? I'm so sorry for the agony you're feeling  Let's just hope and pray he perks up soon!


----------



## Siena (Nov 7, 2010)

TuckersMom said:


> How old is he? I'm so sorry for the agony you're feeling  Let's just hope and pray he perks up soon!


He's 10 and feeling a little better now, he's walking around a little bit. His back legs get a little wobbly, though. The vet said to give him his medication with steamed chicken, is that what I should do?


----------



## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

Siena said:


> He's 10 and feeling a little better now, he's walking around a little bit. His back legs get a little wobbly, though. The vet said to give him his medication with steamed chicken, is that what I should do?


if it makes you feel better, give him steamed chicken, but feed him. that's what he needs....

tomorrow start him on raw again and from now on, keep a spare meal


----------



## Siena (Nov 7, 2010)

My brother is calling me a bad owner and is telling me that he is going to go pick up the prescription food tomorrow. I'm trying to convince him that it was the chicken hearts that did it but he wants him off the raw diet now. I'm much more of a responsible dog owner than he is and I did my research on this. Who is somebody credible I can contact that can back me up on this? I don't want to just get one person because I'm trying to be unbiased when it comes to his diet so I don't want a holistic vet that would lean towards a raw diet anyway. I'd like a dog nutritionist or vet that is unbiased when it comes to raw or kibble. Anybody know a person like this?


----------



## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

Well, to be honest... whose dog is he? Yours or your brothers? Yours. Your brother really has no say in what you feed your dog. Tell him that he is free to go get the food but you will not be feeding it to your dog. That is what I would do if I were in your position.


----------



## Siena (Nov 7, 2010)

Dude and Bucks Mamma said:


> Well, to be honest... whose dog is he? Yours or your brothers? Yours. Your brother really has no say in what you feed your dog. Tell him that he is free to go get the food but you will not be feeding it to your dog. That is what I would do if I were in your position.


Well he's technically both of our's. I'm 16 and he's 19, we got him when I was 6 and he was 9 so technically (and I stress that only technically) he is both of our's. I've always been the one making sure our dogs made it to the vet, groomer's, etc. My parents have been against the raw diet from the start so I'm sure they would support him going and getting the kibble. I told him I would feed Lucky some steamed chicken for a couple days but that once he's better, he can go back on the raw diet and I'll be more careful. He's still very adamant on getting kibble though.


----------



## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

I'm sorry to hear that your dog isn't doing well still. 

What liver enzymes were elevated? Is there any chance you could post exact figures and their reference ranges? 

Honestly I'm not surprised that his liver enzymes are elevated because of how much heart meat he got into. Probably other blood values were off too. It's not a good indicator of actual disease to read blood levels after something traumatic or extreme (like getting into a bunch of chicken hearts). The information gained by bloodwork today should be noted and then rechecked in a few weeks. If levels are back to normal you know they were spiked because of the digestive upset from getting into the hearts. If the liver enzymes are still elevated on a recheck panel you know there might be a chance for some chronic liver disease. Which is not unheard of in older dogs. 

Even if he has a true liver problem putting him on crap kibble filled with cheap ingredients isn't going to do him any favors. Keep feeding him a well rounded diet of raw meat bones and organs but just keep an eye on how much fat and rich meats you give. Keep meats lean is important for liver compromised dogs. 

I hope this helps and I hope you don't feed him that food. Tell your brother to research the food and all it's ingredients. Once he's done that then he can have a say in what you feed the dog.


----------



## Siena (Nov 7, 2010)

DaneMama said:


> I'm sorry to hear that your dog isn't doing well still.
> 
> What liver enzymes were elevated? Is there any chance you could post exact figures and their reference ranges?


Last time his ALT levels were high, at 184. I'll talk to my brother about the kibble ingredients too, good idea!


----------



## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

have your brother read this.

http://dogfoodchat.com/forum/raw-feeding/8211-orijen-white-paper.html


----------



## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Siena said:


> Last time his ALT levels were high, at 184. I'll talk to my brother about the kibble ingredients too, good idea!


When was that taken? What are the reference ranges for that value?


----------



## Siena (Nov 7, 2010)

That was 3 or 4 months ago and today they said it was around the same level. I honestly don't remember the range though.


----------



## TuckersMom (Apr 27, 2011)

Siena said:


> He's 10 and feeling a little better now, he's walking around a little bit. His back legs get a little wobbly, though. The vet said to give him his medication with steamed chicken, is that what I should do?


Sorry I asked such a stupid question. You started out by saying..."my 10 year old...... Somehow I missed that :redface:

I'm so glad to hear he's doing a little better. The people here are giving you good advice. I don't know much myself so I'm learning with you  

The Orijen White paper is REALLY good. I highly recommend both you and your brother read it, especially your brother.

Again, please keep us posted!


----------



## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

So he's had chronic elevated liver values? This may be an ongoing thing, most likely due to age, genetics, etc. Is the raw diet to blame? No. If anything that is the best thing for him. Like I said earlier, just make sure you don't give him things that are very rich in fat. 

Keep us posted.


----------



## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

I see how that can be an issue. I don't know. Even when I was living with my parents, all decisions regarding Dude were up to me. The brittany was the family dog and everyone had a say in his treatment, but I said that if I was going to be taking care of this dog, then I have sole ownership of him (Dude). I got Dude when I was in 8th grade. I was 13 when I started taking care of and paying for him. Maybe it wasn't the best idea since my parents then refused to help me get him vaccinated, but I did what I had to do to make sure that he came with me when I moved out. It was still a struggle to bring him with me when I got married, but here we are, 7 years old and he is still my boy. 

It was for that reason that I refused to share him. I knew that one day, something regarding his health may come up and I didn't want someone else deciding what was best for MY boy just because they are older or are in a position of "authority". 

I don't know how you could accomplish this, but ownership of the dog should be decided. Either he is yours or he is your brother's. With you two having such different views, you can't co-own this dog in harmony. He will be moving out soon (if he hasn't already) and the dog should be fed by whoever he is living with and being taken care of by. If you do all the care taking, he should be your dog only.

That is a sticky situation. I hope you two can resolve your differences and decide to do what is best for the dog.


----------



## Siena (Nov 7, 2010)

It's still on the rocks a little, but I'm telling my family that I've done the research and I feel that a pure meat with no other substitues/ingredients in his diet is best. I told them you can remove a lot of the excess fat through trimming, removing skin, etc. but I'll let you guys know what the final verdict is when it's decided.


----------

