# Voice and hand signaling training



## MarkM

We started training our dogs by voice commands at first, they did very well with that. Then we started to add in hand signaling so there was no confusion in our commands. Now our dogs seem to only respond to the hand signals. How do I get them to understand both, or mainly the voice commands?


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## Dobelover

I would start using the signals and commands together for a bit then slowly just use the words. If they don't respond to your first word command then repeat with a small correction...just like in basic training. And obviously reward of they respond. You just kind of need to go back to the basics again to help them out.


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## SuperPug

I prefer to use hand signals. It works very well when working on commands from a distance. But voice commands should be heeded as well. I would speak the command when using the hand signal at the same time. Once this is repeated for a while you can add in a random point where you give the command without the signal and start rebuilding up using the voice commands, but don't stop using the hand signals. After a while your dog will completely forget what the hand signals are.


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## StdPooDad

I use some voice commands, but primarily it's all hand signals. For example, if I make a slight move with my palm up, Seamus and Teaghan sit. If I twirl my finger, they spin around, etc... I find using hand signals more of a "sure thing" than voice. Having said that thought, I don't think you should *only* do hand signals, but at least for me that's what I do most of the time. 
Dogs watch everything we do...Our voice is, I'm sure, kind of a "blah, blah, blah..Seamus, blah, blah, blah"


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## MarkM

Well I don't want to get rid of the signals if I don't have to. I just want them to understand my words again..

Also.. My youngest dog will only do what I command.. When on holding a treat.. How do I fix that?


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## Dobelover

MarkM said:


> Well I don't want to get rid of the signals if I don't have to. I just want them to understand my words again..
> 
> Also.. My youngest dog will only do what I command.. When on holding a treat.. How do I fix that?


Really use your voice! And play after he does it right...really get him excited. When we say to our guy "good! What a goooood boy" he freaks out and gets all excited. You can also replace the treat with a favourite toy as well. Always have a good mix of rewards. But your voice/praise is the biggest...plus, you always have it with you  
Just wean the treats out. Reward once with a treat, twice without then a treat again. You don't have to get rid of them all together, just use them less often.


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## StdPooDad

what Dobelover said. Just get totally silly, hope the men in the white coats don't come to get you. Get the puppy all excited. Keep him guessing as to when he'll get a treat. If he doesn't respond to your cue w/o a treat, don't scold him or tell him no. Just ignore him; in a short while cue him again...keep at it. When he does what you want w/o the treat, treat him extravagantly!


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## lauren43

MarkM said:


> Well I don't want to get rid of the signals if I don't have to. I just want them to understand my words again..
> 
> Also.. My youngest dog will only do what I command.. When on holding a treat.. How do I fix that?


From what you say here I assume you are using the lure method to train him? For example when you trained sit you put the treat over his head and moved it back until he sat?
Many lured dogs end up depending on treats, some even don't understand the request without the treat present. So I would fade out luring into tricks and as someone else mentioned switch between praise, treats, and toys as rewards. I am a big proponent of clicker training, in other words, letting the dog discover what you want him/her to do without any luring, talking, point, nodding, in other words pretty much nothing from your end.

Also I don't believe you need corrections to get what you want. I would also not use signals and commands together because you could actually get a dog that needs both to respond. I personally would say the cue, follow it by the hand signal and reward the appropriate response. Fading out the hand signal over time (but this signal can still be a cue for the same behavior)...


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## MarkM

lauren43 said:


> From what you say here I assume you are using the lure method to train him? For example when you trained sit you put the treat over his head and moved it back until he sat?
> Many lured dogs end up depending on treats, some even don't understand the request without the treat present. So I would fade out luring into tricks and as someone else mentioned switch between praise, treats, and toys as rewards. I am a big proponent of clicker training, in other words, letting the dog discover what you want him/her to do without any luring, talking, point, nodding, in other words pretty much nothing from your end.
> 
> Also I don't believe you need corrections to get what you want. I would also not use signals and commands together because you could actually get a dog that needs both to respond. I personally would say the cue, follow it by the hand signal and reward the appropriate response. Fading out the hand signal over time (but this signal can still be a cue for the same behavior)...



I wouldn't say I lure him. I don't let him see the treat.


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## SuperPug

Yes you are luring him. He smells the treat.

I believe the main issue with luring is some people don't properly fade out the lure. And then the dog is suddenly confused when the lure is gone. In the beginning of my training days, I constantly referred back to KikoPup. To this day I still refer back to her a bit.


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## StdPooDad

I think of working for a living as analogous to training a dog. 
By that I mean, you wouldn't work for a week, or a month, if you didn't know you were getting paid.
Same with a dog. Pay them for the task.

However, when you work for a living it's not like you need to have your pay held in front of you to do the task.
Same with a dog, they don't need their pay to *do* the task. Pay them when they are done...



MarkM said:


> Also.. My youngest dog will only do what I command.. When on holding a treat.. How do I fix that?


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## MarkM

StdPooDad said:


> I think of working for a living as analogous to training a dog.
> By that I mean, you wouldn't work for a week, or a month, if you didn't know you were getting paid.
> Same with a dog. Pay them for the task.
> 
> However, when you work for a living it's not like you need to have your pay held in front of you to do the task.
> Same with a dog, they don't need their pay to *do* the task. Pay them when they are done...


I do haha.. But within the past few days he's been doing a lot better


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## kevinf270

You can try Salivation. You can say something and following that will be a treat or some food. Repeated try that and then try it without the food and see how the dog reacts. That may help.


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## johnmaclen21

Hand and voice signals require your dog to focus on you. He will be more inclined to pay attention to you during training if he knows he has to see your command in order to please you with the correct action. Develop your own signals, these will be beneficial in every manner. When developing your own hand signals, it is imperative that you remain consistent with the hand signals you are using for a particular command. After practicing the hand and voice command simultaneously, try doing the hand signal without the voice command. Do not reward your dog until he sits and give him verbal praise or a pat on the head, i think it will surely work.


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## CesarMillan56

Its best to trained the dog to understand the voice and hand signaling. Also i heard about the dog training centers. please check these training centers also.

Thank you


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## doggiedad

whenever i taught anything i used a hand signal with a verbal command. as the dog learned i
alternated between the hand signal and the verbal command. i wanted my dog to respond
to a vebal command equally to a hand signal.


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## doggiedad

what correction is necessary? if the dog doesn't respond to the first word command repeat the command and guide the dog into the command.



Dobelover said:


> I would start using the signals and commands together for a bit then slowly just use the words.
> 
> >>>>> If they don't respond to your first word command then repeat with a small correction...just like in basic training.<<<<<
> 
> And obviously reward of they respond. You just kind of need to go back to the basics again to help them out.


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## StdPooDad

What do you mean by "correct"? And why would you correct?
I reward what I want and ignore what I don't want.



Dobelover said:


> If they don't respond to your first word command then repeat with a small correction..


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## Dobelover

Example, if you say "come" and they ignore you, you need to say it again with a small pop on your leash. If you were to just ignore the fact they ignored you you will never get a good recall. They will learn that it's okay to ignore you.


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## StdPooDad

I use a long line, Never give them a chance to fail until they have a bombproof recall. 

Personally, I would never use a "pop" on a leash.



Dobelover said:


> Example, if you say "come" and they ignore you, you need to say it again with a small pop on your leash. If you were to just ignore the fact they ignored you you will never get a good recall. They will learn that it's okay to ignore you.


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## doggiedad

you don't need to pop the leash. when my dog ignored a command i repeated the command and made him do it.



Dobelover said:


> Example, if you say "come" and they ignore you, you need to say it again with a small pop on your leash. If you were to just ignore the fact they ignored you you will never get a good recall. They will learn that it's okay to ignore you.


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## StdPooDad

Exactly! No need to pop a leash or anything like that...



doggiedad said:


> you don't need to pop the leash. when my dog ignored a command i repeated the command and made him do it.


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## Dobelover

To each his own, we all have different methods of training. There's nothing wrong with a pop on the leash..you guys act like I'm yanking my dog...which I'm not. Many positive training schools use this method. Whatever works. As long as you get a good recall the FIRST time you ask then that's all that matters. A dog should never ignore it...it could save their life one day.


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## Dobelover

So how do you correct the behaviour? If you just keep repeating the command they learn that that don't have to respond the first time...


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## doggiedad

you don't keep repeating the command. you give the command once. if you're dog doesn't respond give the command again except this time you're going to make the dog follow the command. make sure you're in position to make the dog follow the command. whatever you're teaching the dog do it during a training session. if you're dogis on the other side of the room don't give a command. be in position to make the dog obey the command. you give a command the dog doesn't follow it. you pop the collar. your dog doesn't know what the commands means. if the dog doesn't know the command means do you really think he knows why you're popping the collar? what are teaching them when you pop the collar? the dog doesn't know what you want.



Dobelover said:


> So how do you correct the behaviour? If you just keep repeating the command they learn that that don't have to respond the first time...


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## Dobelover

To clarify, I only pop the collar on the recall command.....


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## doggiedad

i didn't read where any judgement was made about you popping the collar.

where is your dog when you pop the collar on recall? how long is the lead?



Dobelover said:


> To each his own, we all have different methods of training. There's nothing wrong with a pop on the leash..
> 
> you guys act like I'm yanking my dog...which I'm not.
> 
> Many positive training schools use this method. Whatever works. As long as you get a good recall the FIRST time you ask then that's all that matters. A dog should never ignore it...it could save their life one day.





Dobelover said:


> >>>> To clarify, I only pop the collar on the recall command.....<<<<<


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## Dobelover

Sometimes he's on his 6 foot leash when we practice or his long line at the park. When at the park if he doesn't respond the first time, I can repeat with a small pop..then he will come. Then I try again. If I were to keep repeating the command without his correction he will learn it's ok to ignore it and only come one the recall he chooses to respond to. I want him responding to the first one...not the second, third etc. if they don't respond the first time, you don't have a solid recall.


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## CesarMillan56

Thanks for giving the information regarding voice and hand signaling training.

Thank you


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## doggiedad

you give the command simultaneously making the dog follow the command. you say "sit" while physically making
the dog follow the command, you say "come" at the sametime you're pulling the dog towards you. if you're working on come
start with a short leash/line etc. position the dog 2' in front of you.


Dobelover said:


> Sometimes he's on his 6 foot leash when we practice or his long line at the park. When at the park if he doesn't respond the first time, I can repeat with a small pop..then he will come. Then I try again.
> 
> >>>> If I were to keep repeating the command without his correction he will learn it's ok to ignore it and only come one the recall he chooses to respond to. I want him responding to the first one<<<<,
> 
> ...not the second, third etc. if they don't respond the first time, you don't have a solid recall.


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## DwayneTaylor

One simple thing you can do is again train him for both signals regularly, always try to apply both the commands on him. Then only he will be able to understand both the signals.


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## DwayneTaylor

Although there are no official dog training hand signals, some hand signals for dog training are recognized by most professional trainers.
Here are some examples:

Sit: you lure your pooch by moving the treat up from his nose to his forehead. This movement becomes a full motion with your palm facing up from your leg to your shoulder.

Down: you lure your pet by moving the treat from his nose down to the floor. This movement becomes a full motion with your palm facing out starting at your shoulder level and going down to your leg palm-down.

Stand: Starting from a sit or down position, you lure your hound by moving the treat from his nose up and forward. This becomes a full motion with your palm starting relaxed at your hip, then move your arm backwards.


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