# Vitamin and Mineral supplements for dogs



## Kat

I came across this forum on my search for a review for Hilary's Blend supplement, formerly The Balancer. I ordered it from my vet and was going to pick it up tomorrow, but have now changed my mind after reading what everyone had to say about it. I have a 1.5 year old female pug named Ruby who has gone through many issues with allergies and I no longer trust kibble dog food, plus she either throws it up once in a while or gets nauseous, but I do not have the guts for raw food, and could never attempt it. Especially since morning feedings are my sisters responsibility because I go to work early, and I know she wouldnt want to handle raw meat. So I want to do the home-cooked diet, limited ingredients. So now I am looking for a high quality vitamin and mineral supplement for her. I live in Burlington, Ontario, so I would want something that I can find locally or close by atleast. Any help is greatly appreciated!


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## RawFedDogs

How are you going to home cook without handling raw meat before you cook it or as you cook it? If you can do that, they why can't you just hand the raw food to your dog instead of putting in in a pan to cook it? I have never understood that thinking. What is it about raw food that you object to? 

As far as supplements go, you have to determine what the diet you are feeding is difficient in before you can decide what supplements to give. With the prey model raw diet, there are no deficiences with the possible exception of omega 3 fatty acids. You can feed raw fish or you can add salmon oil or fish body oil to the diet to add in the O3's.


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## Caty M

Homecooked done right is a step up from kibble, but not as good as raw. Supplements are never as good as the natural minerals you get from raw, whole, unprocessed (uncooked) foods. Raw feeding for your sister can be as simple as taking a piece of chicken out of the fridge and handing it to your dog.


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## Scarlett_O'

I agree with the past 2 posters, of you can't handle raw meat at all then your not going to be making the proper food for your dog, and as they also said, if you can handle raw meat for cooking then you can handle it for feeding!:smile: (there are even a lot of vegans and vegetarians who feed raw knowing that it is THE proper diet for their pet carnivore!:wink

Also as stated your sister's feed time can be super easy! My boys are fed a frozen breakfast 2-4 days out of tue week!(makes it SUPER easy!!:beggaring


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## Ania's Mommy

A home cooked diet is leaps and bounds better than what is sold in stores, and I applaud your decision to go that route.

The thing with home cooking is that you'll need to be sure and compensate for all nutrients/vitamins/minerals/etc. that are lost during the cooking process. I know that we have a few members here who have had good success creating a complete home cooked meal plan. Off hand, I can think of Magicre & Sassymaxmom. Check out their posts in the Dog Food Recipes section of the forum.

Good luck! I'm sure you'll see great results with Ruby. :smile:


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## Kat

I dont object raw food, Im just scared to try it. I trained my dog with a trainer who works for Brad Pattison (the tv dog trainer from At the End of my Leash), and she feeds her border collie raw. She has discussed raw with me, but I really would feel more comfortable with cooking the meat. For people who can feed raw food to their dogs, I do applaud them, but when I hear scary stories of a dog getting sick from it, then I cant help but worry. Also Ruby has very deep and tight wrinkles which need to be cleaned every day, and she only lets me do it. So not only would my sister be grossed out with having to handle raw meat in the morning, but she would also need to clean Rubys face after a meal to get any raw juices out of her wrinkles, which Ruby wouldnt let her do, she gets infections in her wrinkles very quickly if they are not kept clean and dry. And just to clear something up, I personally am not grossed out by raw meat, I do the cooking at home. 
I have heard of Hokamix The Herbs | Hokamix , but when I read the ingredients, two of them are "mildly laxative" and one of them is a histamine, which is strange they would put that. My friend feeds her dog home cooked, limited ingredients. A meal for her dog is cooked chicken, with either a regular potato (with skin), a sweet potato (with skin), or tapioca mixed with salt free chicken broth, and salmon and or cod liver oil. And then she also rotates the protein source with salmon, beef, and halibut. Then she bought a vitamin and mineral supplement at a pet store. Her vet told her to double the dose of the vitamin supplement since that one is designed to be fed in conjunction with a kibble diet. Her dog looks amazing, and is doing much better on that diet than any kibble. She had a very dull coat and was shedding excessivley, and her poop was never hard, but since switching to the home cooked meal, which she has been doing for about 6 months, the change is amazing. Like me, she is not comfortable with feeding raw, especially with an almost 2 year old running around. 

With seeing what deficiences may be in a home cooked diet, I dont know if this would make sense, but what if after three months of feeding a home cooked diet, go to the vet and do some blood work, and see if there are any deficiences and then further supplement that? I know species appropriate raw feeding is always the better option, but home cooked in a definite step up from feeding kibble.


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## Kat

What about this? Dr. Jones' Ultimate Canine Health Formula: Nutritional Supplement For Dogs


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## magicre

ah, pugs....whilst i think all dogs should be on raw.....there are a few breeds who have problems from the gate who were born to be on raw, pugs being one of them..

with their eye problems, ear problems, yeast infections, nose issues, soft palette issues...

having said that, yes, you can feed home cooked...i did before i finally switched to raw....and feeding home cooked was, in part because i had old dogs, along with the pug, bubba.

the consensus that i studies went something like this:

75% protein, which is to include but not limited to canned fish, chicken, beef, pork, in other words red meats, fowl, and fish, definitely want to get heart in their, very nutritious muscle meat.
5% offal such as liver, kidney, etc..
20% vegetables, not cooked, just ground, pureed into mush. this provides the fibre that keeps the pug's stool stable..

to this combination that you can make a month in advance and divide into weekly portions...or daily, if that's how you want it,

i would recommend either berte's immune blend and berte's green blend, which are the ones i used.....and alaskan salmon oil gel caps...

zymox for the ears and i would do it daily until the clean up...or get the vet to do it for the first time, and this is a cleaning that requires a light sedation....and then maintenance...also pluck the hair from inside the ears..

if your dog has breathing problems, you may want to look in to the wonderful roto rooter surgery that allows them to breathe....

make sure, above all, that your pug doesn't have soft pallete issues...

and, perhaps, down the line, you will consider raw....especially for puggy teeth....

good luck to you and pm me if you want....i will help you out...

i think somewhere on this forum, i put out a recipe....i'll see if i can find it...it's pretty close..


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## Kat

Magicre, I got a bit confused when you started mentioning zymox, sedation to pluck ear hair, and surgeries for breathing. She has only had one ear infection, which was my fault when I gave her a bath and didnt dry one her ears properly, which resulted in infection. Her ears are clean and healthy, and I only have to clean then once every couple months. She doesnt have breathing issues, except for on occasion when she gets excited she gets fluid in her pallete but I just have to blow quickly in her nose to clear it, and it only happens once in a while. She is a fairly healthy pug, I just have the issue of food allergies with her, and she does have some seasonal allergies. Thank you for the suggestion of bertes products, I will look them up. Oh, and I brush rubys teeth everyday


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## Kat

Hmm Im a bit confused, I posted two other replies, but they didnt come up because it said I needed to get approval from a moderator, yet this post worked.


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## magicre

Kat said:


> Magicre, I got a bit confused when you started mentioning zymox, sedation to pluck ear hair, and surgeries for breathing. She has only had one ear infection, which was my fault when I gave her a bath and didnt dry one her ears properly, which resulted in infection. Her ears are clean and healthy, and I only have to clean then once every couple months. She doesnt have breathing issues, except for on occasion when she gets excited she gets fluid in her pallete but I just have to blow quickly in her nose to clear it, and it only happens once in a while. She is a fairly healthy pug, I just have the issue of food allergies with her, and she does have some seasonal allergies. Thank you for the suggestion of bertes products, I will look them up.


i always include those things when talking about a pug....simply because so many have issues....i'm glad yours doesn't....


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## Ania's Mommy

Kat said:


> Hmm Im a bit confused, I posted two other replies, but they didnt come up because it said I needed to get approval from a moderator, yet this post worked.


I think that if a new member tries to make a post with a website link in it, it must be approved first. Gotta watch out for spammers, ya know!


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## Kat

Oh I see, that makes sense.


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## PDXdogmom

I've just started home-cooking my dogs' dinner meal for the past month. I still feed kibble for breakfast. So far it seems to be going well.

I've read that if a dog is still eating half kibble it may not need extra supplements of vitamins/minerals. But I wanted to give myself an extra little insurance in that area. I bought Berte's Naturals Daily Blend and add it to the home-cooked dinner every other day. The jar label states: "Daily Blend is intended for intermittent or supplemental feeding only" I imagine that is because it doesn't contain the full array of vitamins/minerals.

So, I'm somewhat in a still exploring mode on this subject also.


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## Serendipity

SaltyDog cooks his dogs meals and uses the Honest Kitchen's complete vitamin/mineral pre-mix.


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## magicre

PDXdogmom said:


> I've just started home-cooking my dogs' dinner meal for the past month. I still feed kibble for breakfast. So far it seems to be going well.
> 
> I've read that if a dog is still eating half kibble it may not need extra supplements of vitamins/minerals. But I wanted to give myself an extra little insurance in that area. I bought Berte's Naturals Daily Blend and add it to the home-cooked dinner every other day. The jar label states: "Daily Blend is intended for intermittent or supplemental feeding only" I imagine that is because it doesn't contain the full array of vitamins/minerals.
> 
> So, I'm somewhat in a still exploring mode on this subject also.


lew is a great believer in supplementation other than raw feeding....and if you're going to be home cooking, i would suggest joining her list, if only to read the archives....lots of home cooking people there....i still read her list...


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## Kat

Serendipity, I have looked at the website for the honest kitchen. That premix does look good... and does it have everything that is needed to maintain my dogs health when fed with a home cooked meal? Do you think the spinach, zuchini and cabbage may upset my pugs stomach/make her gassy, or since its dehydrated its not going to be as strong? So far, that is the best one I have seen. Thanks so much for posting!


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## magicre

Kat said:


> Serendipity, I have looked at the website for the honest kitchen. That premix does look good... and does it have everything that is needed to maintain my dogs health when fed with a home cooked meal? Do you think the spinach, zuchini and cabbage may upset my pugs stomach/make her gassy, or since its dehydrated its not going to be as strong? So far, that is the best one I have seen. Thanks so much for posting!


i found out through experimentation with my pug that kibble is okay, cooked brought with it its own problems....and raw turned out to be key....the veggies and extras in honest kitchen would, in my opinion, not do a pug good...they are prone to yeasty infections....gas.....bloating, not bloat.....and digestive issues...

this is the reason we feed protein in the form of fowl, red meats and fish.....a little bone and a little organ. it's simple and clean, goes down easily and no digestive problems, although nothing stops him from having a little gas....and he's not had a yeast infection since three months after we started raw.

pre mixes mean i don't have control....and i'm just not a believer that dogs should eat veggies and fruits...and grains and dairy...


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## Kat

Yeah, that is one thing that sucks about pugs -.-' . But I will give it a try and see how she does. I just dont want to feed her kibble anymore. Thank you to everyone who replied to my thread and the helpful suggestions and advice


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## Stretch

Hi Kat, 
Your title caught my eye asking about supplements and it seemed to get a little off track with the feeding, but I do have a suggestion for supplemantation because it does help.

That being said, there really is no substitute for the BARF diet and that by itself will usually cure any seasonal allergies in my experience. One poster hit it exactly correct, in my opinion, raw is best, cooked is a close second and try to avoid the bag....or something to that afect.

Im certainly not spamming this post because this is the only forum I have found with not only active members, but actually "Eastern medicine" inteligent members, if you will and its a great resource.

I do however operate a site that specializes in human grade dog supplements and although I may be a biased opinion, I will tell you with conviction that regardless of how your dog gets it either through diet or supplementation, NUTRITION is the key to all that ails any dog.

Theres a human grade supplement that is aimed at digestion, but one of the positive side effects is that it also helps cure seasonal allergies in dogs. I included the link, and if you have any questions please let me know. 

_ * * * Unauthorised Advertising Removed By Moderator * * * _ RFD


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## magicre

not all of us agree that barf is the only way to go.... and whilst you say you are not pushing your product......sorry......but it surely does seem that way.....

the ingredients in your product include bee pollen. how in g'ds name does that cure seasonal allergies...if you want, i can dissect this product of yours....because it has amylase in it which the dog's digestive system will destroy.....the other ingredients.....same thing....


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## Stretch

Magicre/Scarlett,

I apologize if you took offense to my reply. Youre correct, not all of us agree... but isnt that the beauty of a forum such as this based in all these different experiences? Isnt that why we joined a forum like this in the first place? To learn and share about the one thing we all have in common, our dogs? 

Im entitled to my opinion based off my personal and professional experiences just as all of us are....As such, I preferrenced my opinion with statements such as "in my experience" and "I may be a biased opinion" to leave it up to the reader to form their own opinion as you have, but to insinuate that Im trying to be deceitful in my intentions, I believe is not only unfair, but inaccurate, IN MY OPINION.

Feel free to disect individual ingredients in any or all of the products you viewed "in g'ds name", Id be happy to discuss it with you, but again, I was offering my opinion based on previous experience no different than anyone else who reccommended the other supplements in this very same thread. 

This original post was a question of "can supplements help seasonal allergies in Kat's pug", and IN MY OPINION, the answer is a resounding, yes, but simply because you dont agree doesnt mean its incorrect. One violin player doesnt make or break the orchestra much in the same way one ingredient doesnt distract from the harmony of effectiveness. If I hadnt spoken to people whom have experienced a positive change in their dog, I wouldnt have said anything, but I suppose we'll get to know each other over time. 

Again, I apologize that you took offense. I will be more careful in the future so as not to rattle any "crates"...


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## magicre

Stretch said:


> Magicre/Scarlett,
> 
> I apologize if you took offense to my reply. Youre correct, not all of us agree... but isnt that the beauty of a forum such as this based in all these different experiences? Isnt that why we joined a forum like this in the first place? To learn and share about the one thing we all have in common, our dogs?
> 
> Im entitled to my opinion based off my personal and professional experiences just as all of us are....As such, I preferrenced my opinion with statements such as "in my experience" and "I may be a biased opinion" to leave it up to the reader to form their own opinion as you have, but to insinuate that Im trying to be deceitful in my intentions, I believe is not only unfair, but inaccurate, IN MY OPINION.
> 
> Feel free to disect individual ingredients in any or all of the products you viewed "in g'ds name", Id be happy to discuss it with you, but again, I was offering my opinion based on previous experience no different than anyone else who reccommended the other supplements in this very same thread.
> 
> This original post was a question of "can supplements help seasonal allergies in Kat's pug", and IN MY OPINION, the answer is a resounding, yes, but simply because you dont agree doesnt mean its incorrect. One violin player doesnt make or break the orchestra much in the same way one ingredient doesnt distract from the harmony of effectiveness. If I hadnt spoken to people whom have experienced a positive change in their dog, I wouldnt have said anything, but I suppose we'll get to know each other over time.
> 
> Again, I apologize that you took offense. I will be more careful in the future so as not to rattle any "crates"...


i thank you for your apology, although i must say i did not take offense....at all....i was stating that not all of us are BARF feeders...and i felt you were pushing a product. 

you didn't insult me....at all. 

but, thanks anyway....

and you are absolutely entitled to your opinion....i think i have that tattoo'd on my forehead.


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## Kat

Thank you for your post Stretch. The product you have shown me doesnt quite fit what I am looking for for my dog. I have been looking into trying probiotics and bee pollen for my pug, but I prefer holistic human products for that part. My friend works at a health food store and with her discount Im sure I can get it for cheaper than any pet store products. As magicre said, bee pollen doesnt cure seasonal allergies, but it does strengthen their immune systems. Last year, Ruby did not have any allergies whatsoever. Then a few months ago when she had to get her vaccines, the vet suggested I also vaccinate against leptosplerosis (sp?). Other patients in the clinic got it for their dogs with no adverse affects so I agreed, and twelve hours later Rubys face swelled up to the point of her looking like a shar-pei! She got hives literally on ever inche of her skin and I had to rush her to the emergency. Since then, I know her immune system has been weakened, and shes gotten a few allergic reactions since then to things that never bothered her in the past, which is why I want to feed home cooked so I can control and know what she is eating.

Another question regarding probiotics vs. digestive enzymes. Since enzymes help to break down food into nutrients, and probiotics create a healthy digestive tract, would it be best to use both probiotics and enzymes to work together? Because at my friends health food store, they do have a probiotic powder with digestive enzymes in it. Im wondering if that would be better for Ruby instead of just probiotics. The Honest Kitchen also has a digestive aid called Perfect Form, but I dont know if that would be too many digestive supplements if I actually used probiotics, enzymes, Perfect Form, and bee pollen added to her food.


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## magicre

Kat said:


> Thank you for your post Stretch. The product you have shown me doesnt quite fit what I am looking for for my dog. I have been looking into trying probiotics and bee pollen for my pug, but I prefer holistic human products for that part. My friend works at a health food store and with her discount Im sure I can get it for cheaper than any pet store products. As magicre said, bee pollen doesnt cure seasonal allergies, but it does strengthen their immune systems. Last year, Ruby did not have any allergies whatsoever. Then a few months ago when she had to get her vaccines, the vet suggested I also vaccinate against leptosplerosis (sp?). Other patients in the clinic got it for their dogs with no adverse affects so I agreed, and twelve hours later Rubys face swelled up to the point of her looking like a shar-pei! She got hives literally on ever inche of her skin and I had to rush her to the emergency. Since then, I know her immune system has been weakened, and shes gotten a few allergic reactions since then to things that never bothered her in the past, which is why I want to feed home cooked so I can control and know what she is eating.
> 
> Another question regarding probiotics vs. digestive enzymes. Since enzymes help to break down food into nutrients, and probiotics create a healthy digestive tract, would it be best to use both probiotics and enzymes to work together? Because at my friends health food store, they do have a probiotic powder with digestive enzymes in it. Im wondering if that would be better for Ruby instead of just probiotics. The Honest Kitchen also has a digestive aid called Perfect Form, but I dont know if that would be too many digestive supplements if I actually used probiotics, enzymes, Perfect Form, and bee pollen added to her food.


when i read what you're saying, it all makes sense....for a human....it sounds like what i would recommend to a human who had digestive issues, along with suggesting dietary changes...

but you have a dog...and dogs are not human nor do they have the same digestive system....to whit, they do not need what humans need, other than the appropriate food for their species...just like humans need the appropriate food for their species...but they are not interchangeable....

having said that, probiotics and enzymes and bee pollen and other things mentioned are un necessary if the dog is fed a species appropriate diet.


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## Steve Mark

The essential food part of small dogs/puppies :
*Dehydrated* diets are also good one for small dogs. Although they are on the higher priced end of dog foods. They are exceptional in their quality and only require measuring out and being mixed with water. It contains enough nutritions and other minerals which are good for small dogs specially.


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## RawFedDogs

Kat said:


> Another question regarding probiotics vs. digestive enzymes. Since enzymes help to break down food into nutrients, and probiotics create a healthy digestive tract, would it be best to use both probiotics and enzymes to work together?


Dogs and any other animal will create the probiotics and digestive enzymes they need. Unless something is terribly wrong, neither of those things are needed. Antibiotics can intefere with the production of probiotics but they will build back up in just a few days without external help.



> Because at my friends health food store, they do have a probiotic powder with digestive enzymes in it. Im wondering if that would be better for Ruby instead of just probiotics.


You are listening to your friend's sales pitch too seriously. I'm sure your friend actually believes what she is telling you but that's mainly because she is being told that by her employer. Assuming your dog doesn't have a serious disease, both those products will be produced internally without external assistance.



> The Honest Kitchen also has a digestive aid called Perfect Form, but I dont know if that would be too many digestive supplements if I actually used probiotics, enzymes, Perfect Form, and bee pollen added to her food.


It's another one of those useless products designed to make money.


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## magicre

Steve Mark said:


> The essential food part of small dogs/puppies :
> *Dehydrated* diets are also good one for small dogs. Although they are on the higher priced end of dog foods. They are exceptional in their quality and only require measuring out and being mixed with water. It contains enough nutritions and other minerals which are good for small dogs specially.


there is one thing that humans and dogs share....the need for fresh foods...

small dogs have the ability to eat raw, not rehydrated soup that contains a bunch of un necessary veggies and fruits....the sugar content goes up with dehydration, too...did you know that? sugar and dogs don't get along very well....

respectfully, i will have to disagree that dehydrated foods are also good...i think they are not good for dogs, no matter what the size or breed...

feeding raw, once the dog transitions...and if you're not me...that will be extremely easy for most people....depending on the dog and the person...

feeding raw, for me....takes five minutes...and that's longer than most....and it is only because i weigh things...that five minutes includes laying the towel down in the kitchen and cleaning up.

by the time someone has added water to the dehydrated food, my dogs are licking their chops.


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