# So I realize this is a "dogfoodchat" but what about cats?



## hbwright (Jul 14, 2010)

I have a young cat who loves raw but I'm kind of stuck on how to get enough food that she can eat whole without breaking the bank. She will eat an entire cornish hen wing but the regular chicken wings are too dense. I don't do cornish hen very often for the dogs, maybe once a month. Of course I break of the wings for him and tonight he ate 2 of them and then went after the turkey neck which was half the size of his body. 

What other cuts are good for cats? He does get other canned foods and canned tripe that he loves but I'd love to do more real RMBs for him, especially because he loves it so much. Will he get to the point where he is strong enough to do whole regular chicken wings do you think, at least the smaller bones, maybe not the large nub? He is also an organ freak and will steal any he can get his hands on. I'm afraid he may actually get too much. He also loves chicken heart, one of his favorites, enough taurine?


----------



## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Small whole fish, day old chicks, feeder mice, baby rabbits, etc was what we fed our cats raw.


----------



## hbwright (Jul 14, 2010)

With the fish did he eat them whole right away or did it take some getting used to? He'll eat mackeral but not smelt. He loves to play with them and then hide them under the rug, YUCK!!! I should try feeder mice. I can order those with my rodent order.


----------



## SerenityFL (Sep 28, 2010)

Right now the cats are expensive for me. I had to start them off with skinless/boneless chicken...it was the only thing that worked to get them to switch over.

I have one cat I have to grind her meat for her...she's not up to the bones yet...trying to figure out what to do there. 

The others get pork because I can find a humongous pork shoulder roast that will feed them for days. (I have seven cats...)

I also feed them some canned herring and sardines, in spring water.

I just discovered that I wasted money on turkey....they don't like it. 

They don't mind organs, they gobble those up.

I also get cornish hens because they are $3 and it will last a few days as well...they get the bones that way, (except the one).

I am hoping that eventually they will get really in to this and eat regular chicken wings and drumsticks...that would save me some money.

I am hoping to catch some bass...that would save me some money.

Organs are cheap.

Other than that, I don't know what to do. Feeder mice and day old chicks...sigh...that's gonna be hard on me. I suppose one day I can try one and see how they take to it. 

Aside from that...I am kind of at a loss as to how to continue.


----------



## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

danemama08 said:


> Small whole fish, day old chicks, feeder mice, baby rabbits, etc was what we fed our cats raw.


Just interested - it sounds like you don't feed your cats raw anymore? The only reason I ask is that I'm trying so hard to convince my cat (and my husband) that she really does want to kick the Nutro habit and go fully raw. Its only taken 5 months.
She will only eat 3 different types of raw meat right now, no fish, so I'm not sure she would have enough variety to meet her nutritional needs if we switched right now. But, I'm in for the long haul and right now I think I'm winning (I probably should keep my big fat trap shut!)



SerenityFL said:


> Other than that, I don't know what to do. Feeder mice and day old chicks...sigh...that's gonna be hard on me. I suppose one day I can try one and see how they take to it.


This is my problem. There is no way I could ever feed day old chicks. My parents had a free range duck farm and I had my own duck pets when I was a kid, then I had cockatoo's and budgies (parakeets to you) and cockatiels, as much as I would love to, I just can't do it.
I did get one frozen baby mouse from Petco and just about cried holding it by the tail in a warm glass of water trying get it to body temp for Windy - and then after everything I did for her, the ungrateful so and so wouldn't eat the bloody thing. 
And, now you've mentioned it, I remember seeing frozen cornish hens in Walmart, I'll get one tomorrow and see how we go.
Its a shame you can't wrangle in some of those alligators down the back of your yard!


----------



## hbwright (Jul 14, 2010)

I'm going to go the cornish hen route for now too until I order some more feeders and try a feeder. I will not feed it on my counter top though, I'll crate him and see how he does. He did eat boneless venison tonight in chunks and probably could have eaten 1 larger piece and he had a chicken wing I had left over but didn't eat the larger middle bone. He won't eat smelt as far as fish but he does love mackeral. I hope that is okay for once a week. Maybe he'll get into the smelt once he's had a little more practice. Right now they are more play toys. 

Is it okay to depend on the hen and fish for bone content and then add in boneless larger chunks of various meats (I know the goal is to cut down on surface area) and organ in order for them to get their variety? I can try mice or small rats because I order them or the snakes anyway but wonder if he really would eat them. Worth a try and cheap.


----------



## Animal Quackers (Jul 10, 2010)

SerenityFL said:


> I have one cat I have to grind her meat for her...she's not up to the bones yet...trying to figure out what to do there.


I wonder if it would be OK to add a little ground up eggshell to the raw meat. It probably is not as good as bone when it comes to teeth cleaning, but it will provide some calcium and a little "grit" to act as an abrasive on the teeth. 

Also, what about hitting the meat with bones with a hammer to break up the bones into smaller, more "cat-size" pieces...


----------



## RachelsaurusRexU (Sep 4, 2010)

I thought of a couple more things to add to the list today as I was portioning out a whole turkey that I hacked up yesterday. If you buy whole birds for your dogs (be it chicken, turkey, duck, whatever) cut off the wingtips and rib sections and save them for the cats.


----------



## SerenityFL (Sep 28, 2010)

Animal Quackers said:


> I wonder if it would be OK to add a little ground up eggshell to the raw meat. It probably is not as good as bone when it comes to teeth cleaning, but it will provide some calcium and a little "grit" to act as an abrasive on the teeth.
> 
> Also, what about hitting the meat with bones with a hammer to break up the bones into smaller, more "cat-size" pieces...


That's really all the bone is for, right? Keeping the teeth clean? Because if that is the case, perhaps the egg shell thing would work. I could get that in to small enough pieces for her to eat...they wouldn't get caught up in her throat would they? 

I do have a meat hammer thing that I just purchased and tried that with some chicken but I didn't see that she ate much of it...if any, really. Of course, that was in the early days and before I got a meat grinder. (I don't have a meat grinder that will do bones...which is why I got the hammer thing...)

Maybe I can try that again. But yah, if the bones are just for keeping teeth clean and the eggshells will do that, I'll give it a try.


----------



## RachelsaurusRexU (Sep 4, 2010)

Bones aren't only for teeth cleaning. They're necessary for calcium and it's important to have a good balance of calcium to phosphorous. A raw diet without a decent ratio of bone (or at least bone meal, if necessary) wouldn't be a balanced diet and could certainly result in deficiences. I imagine you'd need quite a large amount of eggshell to equal the amount of bone you should feed.


----------



## hbwright (Jul 14, 2010)

Having started my cats later in life and one already with teeth problems I had to go very soft and thin on the bones. The kitten is getting the hang of it and can do some chicken after a short amount of time but the hen wings are nothing for him to crunch through. I was giving to big and that is what he was used to because I fed him with the dogs. The hen backs are also nothing for him to work at and even my senior has been getting into them (Woohoo). I'm going to try chicken back next and see how he does with that. 

BTW--I couldn't do the rat. I've got to get over the heabie jeabies first. The snakes just swallow them whole and I don't have to watch them get eaten apart. I do remember one time though that I heated up for too long and the gut busted and the smell was nothing like I want to smell again. I'm really afraid of something like that happened again. Other rat or mouse feeders can chime in and let me know if this is a problem. He is always interested though when I take them out to defrost. Maybe I'll try some young chicks instead. I'm such a wimp.


----------



## sassymaxmom (Dec 7, 2008)

You just need 1/2 tsp of eggshell per pound of meat as it is almost completely calcium carbonate unlike bone which has a lot of organic matter as well as the minerals. Since egg shell is very low in phosphorus a meat and egg shell diet may be low in phosphorus! I don't know why but egg shell isn't as digestible as bone, one may see flecks of it in the poop.

Chewing big chunks of tough meat helps clean the teeth too and just not feeding carbohydrates helps keep the teeth clean. Guessing it might be hard to get a cat to chew up tough stuff though. Maybe a bit of pork skin?


----------



## RachelsaurusRexU (Sep 4, 2010)

I stand corrected!


----------



## hbwright (Jul 14, 2010)

RachelsaurusRexU said:


> I stand corrected!


Haha, I know exactly what you mean. They surprise us. I left out turkey necks after feeding a couple to the dogs and bagged up the other ones. I accidently left them out on the counter in the baggies and my husband went in later to find our cat had torn open the bag and had almost the whole turkey neck down to the bone. If I had given it to her she would have taken forever to get through the tough outer skin but since she snuck it she made her way through. LOL. My other cat eats pigs feet and loves them. 

I may try the egg shell. I've been supplimenting with wet food because I worry that she won't eat through bone. I bet she'll at least eat some tuna or other mashed up fish that I can use to mix in the egg shell. Or, better yet, tripe, which she loves. I may be able to get her on complete raw yet. With doing it this way would she get enough taurine?


----------



## SerenityFL (Sep 28, 2010)

hbwright, you gave me a good idea...since I now know I can do eggshells, (at least for now), the older cat LOVES sardines....she would dance a jig if she could when she knows she's getting them....so I can probably mix up egg shell in that. Cool!

Thanks for the idea about egg shells, Animal Quackers and sassymaxmom for clearing up any questions...I think I can start to relax now about this diet when it comes to the older cat. All the other cats will eat anything I put in front of them, even that one cat who was so stubborn about it in the beginning.


----------



## SamWu1 (Oct 15, 2010)

hbwright said:


> would she get enough taurine?


Taurine is abundant in raw animal flesh.


----------



## RachelsaurusRexU (Sep 4, 2010)

Especially heart!


----------



## hbwright (Jul 14, 2010)

RachelsaurusRexU said:


> Especially heart!


I try to feed Beef heart weekly our at least every couple of weeks. They also eat a bit of chicken heart when I get full packages of it.


----------



## SamWu1 (Oct 15, 2010)

RachelsaurusRexU said:


> Especially heart!


I call beef heart the ultimate health food for my guy.


----------



## SerenityFL (Sep 28, 2010)

Ok...so I don't have to go the eggshell route.

I had bought a whole chicken awhile ago and brought it out to defrost a few days ago. Tonight it was defrosted so I thought I'd just cut it up and get the meaty parts for the cats along with the drumsticks and wings.

I pulled the wings off, cut the breast meat off, (this is especially for the older cat), separated the back and ribs, (gave those to the hoodlums), and found the bag of "goodies" inside.

I threw the drumsticks, wings and chicken neck on a plate and set it on the towel that most of the cats eat off of.

I was getting ready to cut up the breast meat to prepare for grinding for the older cat when I realized, she was chowing down on the chicken neck! She was chewing like she's supposed to chew. Huzzah!

I held off on the grinding and just watched the cats eat their bony meals...ALL of them! When the older cat got bored of the neck, she started to try to eat a drumstick.

I could not believe it.

Even my young, stubborn cat who will eat bone sometimes, if she feels like it, went to town on the chicken neck after my older one abandoned it, all chewed up.

I wasn't sure if the older one or stubborn one got enough meat so I cut some of the breast meat in to cubes BUT I did not grind the meat nor did I cut the cubes in to tiny pieces like I was doing.

They both ate the cubes, even the older cat, every last bite, with no problems.

I'm ecstatic! If I can get both of those cats to eat the bony stuff like the other cats, the cost of feeding raw to my pets will go down, significantly.

Oh, one other thing: My older cat, a white cat, was always prone to ear mites. When we started raw, I put ONE application of ear mite medicine and then thought to hold off until I knew she was eating raw and getting enough to eat before applying more.

That was a month ago.

Her ears are almost mite free. They are once again mostly pink inside like they are supposed to be. And her little chin acne? Disappearing.

It's totally because of raw.


----------



## hbwright (Jul 14, 2010)

Serenity, great news. I'm getting a bag of chicken necks that are really small from my mother sold by Primal. They are too small for her dogs so I think that my senior can handle them. She can eat more than she does I'm sure. She has eaten backs before and wings but at times just won't. I think she will the necks though. She ate a good portion of a turkey neck but still not the bone so I'm positive she'll chew right into the chicken necks. I'm going shopping for the dogs tomorrow so I'm going to see what else I can find aside from the hen I've been using. I don't want to stick to just chicken and beef for the cats. 

SamWu, I have a doberman and boxer so I try to get a good bit of beef heart in there, or any heart would do. The boxer does have heart disease and though the doberman's is clear to auscultation I've wimped out when it comes time to do his holter and just can't bring myself to do the new DNA test. I feel like I already know my answer and just have to resign myself to the fact that I could lose him next week or in 8 years from now. I want to make sure I truely live that time and not worry about when it will happen. It so sad. I have such hope the new DNA test is a step in the right direction but it will take time to breed away from the disease. Until then, we'll feed heart.


----------



## Animal Quackers (Jul 10, 2010)

RachelsaurusRexU said:


> I imagine you'd need quite a large amount of eggshell to equal the amount of bone you should feed.


I don't think so! Eggshells are an awesome source of calcium! We grind it and add to it the diet of our canaries and finches, who lay eggs regardless of whether they have nests in their cages or not, and need the extra calcium in their diets to form the shells so their bodies do not leech the calcium from their bones.


----------

