# Forgot to post this here...Mr Pig Head



## Elliehanna (Jan 16, 2012)

thought I posted this here but I guess I didn't, this is Goren's meal for when we went out of town (we left for thanksgiving, he ate his normal meal then this about 10 hours later just before I left the house, we were gone Thursday to Sunday but I had a friend feed him on Saturday so he actually had 1 fast day only so no worries)

this is 2 lbs of venison and a pig head
















scared of the pigs head so he eats the venison but I have to dump his bowl 1st because he is also scared of the bowl lol
this is his pleading look to get me to dump the bowl
























I leave for a bit so he is not hiding under me anymore from the pig head lol
come back to him eating the pig head 
















I leave and come back to this (all the oilly carnage on the right lol)

















I have not found the rest of the head but not looked to hard outside, I am guessing there might be a jaw left but not sure, this thing was about 8 lbs total


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## Maedusa (Sep 25, 2012)

That´s some big chain


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## Elliehanna (Jan 16, 2012)

looks heavier than it is, its one that is rated for I believe 2,000 lbs, have you ever seen a bully breed hit then end of a chain? they can snap normal dog tie outs like a twig, and cable not only will they snap it but it will then come back and hurt the dog with the sharp end. My boy is 70 lbs and is only on the chain when no one is home (like when we go out of town) because fences are for keeping other animals out, not the dog in (though my dog has never jumped the fence) I would much rather be safe than sorry


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## Elliehanna (Jan 16, 2012)

thanks Schism  I was so scared I was ganna get more flameing on here, heck I even had a bad dream (it was a really bad one where someone called AC on me and because my boy is an ideal weight they tried to take him because he was on his chain enjoying the sun barking at the person "and their dog" as they walked past my house)


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## GoingPostal (Sep 5, 2011)

He actually left a bit on it, did he end up finishing it off? It's nice you can feed outside, I think I need a deck, it's too cold now, only one of my dogs would eat outside and last time I did that she made a huge mess of herself, covered in blood and dirt, it was ridiculous. I'm trying out feeding in my basement now, they are all gorging on deer carcass today. 

He's looking really nice and shiny, don't you love that? I can't believe how much better all my animals coats are on raw.


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## Elliehanna (Jan 16, 2012)

oh yea I have been, people with bleeding hearts just wont get it until they see a 6 month old bulldog snap a walmart chain and then the wheels might start turning lol. He is a mix, I think Great Dane actually because of how his temperment is (very guard like) and his muzzle is almost exactly half the way between a bully breed and a Dane, and way to long for a boxer, he is also lean and leggy which if he had boxer in him his chest would be a lot bigger (yea I have had almost 4 years to think on this lol)

yea he is very neat and tidy with himself, he can eat bloody things like fresh liver and not get it all over HIM but the floor is another story lol, the deck is wonderful because though it attacts flies in the summer I don't have to wash the floor (spray off the deck every now and then but that is it) He must have while I was gone because I can't find it anywhere. Oh yea I love his coat shine, its like a mirror and even if people think he is a bit skinny (because they don't know what a healthy dog looks like) they can't say much because his coat is so good.


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

Regarding the chain. I believe it is about training. My bully breed dog is tied out occasionally when we go camping. We use the simple dog tie outs sold at most pet stores. He doesn't snap it because he knows to not run to the end as fast as he can. He was trained to be calm when tied out or he doesn't get to go camping. A little training and trust makes for a happy dog  I have used dog tie outs for years and have yet to see any kind of dog break one.

Regarding his breed, I don't see an ounce of Dane. He looks just like a boxer mix IMO.

His weight does look much better now! I bet he was very happy to have that huge head


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## pogo (Aug 28, 2011)

hello mr pig head


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## Sheltielover25 (Jan 18, 2011)

schism said:


> I disagree with the bold. It is partially about training but when you have a DA bull dog and some little pomeranian wanders into your yard... that's real raw feeding right there.
> My mixed breed (APBT mutt) busted a heavy cable like she was tied with yarn. She didnt mean to and she is VERY well trained.


How can she be well-trained but still be so reactive she pulled the chain to get to the dog? That doesn't make sense. A well-trained dog doesn't react to stimuli like that, or is trained to react in a positive way, verses pulling and lunging. And no, a dog is not "real raw feeding." Wolves and wild dogs don't eat each other; kill, yes, but eat? That's not hungry and survival, that's aggression, totally different.


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## Elliehanna (Jan 16, 2012)

how a well trained dog can react like that is, in genera, try to keep a herding dog from herding, that is what trying to keep a DA or reactive bully breed is like from reacting.

as far as seeing boxer in him, I guess you have to be up close with him to see the lack of it, if he had boxer in his mix he would be MUCH broader (yea he is small in terms of a great dane) he is 25 inches tall and around 70 lbs (my best guess is his mom was the bully breed at 35 or so lbs which is normal for a female, and dad was a dane mix of some type, we have a lot of danes/hound mix out here and a lot of badly bred danes for the size of the area) don't let his coat color fool you in pictures, he is Sable


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## JLeigh (Jul 15, 2012)

Elliehanna said:


> My boy is 70 lbs and is only on the chain when no one is home (like when we go out of town) because fences are for keeping other animals out, not the dog in (though my dog has never jumped the fence) I would much rather be safe than sorry


Please don't take this the wrong way, but aren't you worried that the chain could get caught or tangled in something with no one being home to take care of it? I'm asking only because we put Alice on a tie-out daily for a few minutes at a time, and she is forever getting tangled up in something. Drives me nuts! lol.


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## _unoriginal (Apr 8, 2012)

Well this went OT quickly..

You can train a DA dog until your heart's content but that will only go so far. Most well-trained DA dogs will be able to walk next to a strange dog without showing any ounce of reactivity. The difference here though is that the owner is right there with the dog. In an instance where the dog is tied, the owner may not be directly next to the dog to say the command to control the dog and stop it from going after the Pom or squirrel or leaf. The point here is that when you're not around to control the dog, the dog will be a dog. You can't fault the dog or owner for the dog doing what only comes natural to them. 

You can train in or out a specific behavior but you can't remove the instinct behind it.

I find it funny with all the people talking about natural diets but it seems that nature stops there? Nature goes far beyond diets. There are instincts to contend with as well. Many of our dogs, when left to their own devices will do what comes naturally and in some cases, that could very well include going after another dog or animal, regardless of the training the dog has had throughout its life.


Ellie- Like I told you earlier, he looks really good. And it also looks like he has some form of self-regulation? Did you know that before this weekend? I wish my dog would do that, or maybe I've just never given enough to find out.


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## Elliehanna (Jan 16, 2012)

he used to get tangled when I 1st put him on the chain back when he was 6 months (well then it was a tie out...remember how I said you have to see it...that is when) after I taught him how not to get tangled up he hasn't had any issues with it even though he is not on the chain very often. Also if for some unknown reason he did get tangled I do leave his collar lose enough on the chain that if he struggled he could get out. you might think it crazy but think of it this way, have you ever known a dog that is running forward to try to back out of a collar? I would rather have him lose in the yard than stuck (which he has backed out from getting stuck 1 time, he was stuck in his doghouse, found the chain in there, that is it) so I am not so scared of him getting hurt while on it and since he never tries to back out of it when he sees pray or dogs I find it pretty safe for them as well (remember he is also in a fence)

Thanks unoriginal, this was the very 1st time he used self-regulation, lets see in total he had about 5 or 6 lbs that day before he didn't want more of the head, 3 lbs were the 1st meal then 3 more before I left (the stuff he is eating there) so maybe try something around 10 lbs and see how it goes, I would make sure most of it is large (like a head or a leg of something) so it takes a long while. That head WAS also frozen so I am sure he probably didn't want to eat all of it at one time since it was frozen


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## Elliehanna (Jan 16, 2012)

no problem Schism

yea I am not sure if its just his breed make up but I am coming to think that it is, I used to hand walk about 2 hours a day every day back before I had my baby and before he had weight issues, now I try to get out at least one day a week for a few hours (since its cold I don't like to risk my baby and since she comes with its hard now, before the weather turned we were going about 3 days a week and building my strength back up from a difficult c-section) now that he is up to a healthy overall weight his tone is getting better but his muscles are not any bigger than they were before he lost weight, he is 4 years old at the end of this month so I know its not him growing (oh and he didn't stop "bulking up" until he was close to 2.5 years old, maybe closer to 3 than that, after that is when he started dealing with weight issues) I just don't know his mix so don't know what his ideal muscle tone would be, wish I did.

hope that paragraph makes sense, I am not sure it does lol.


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

Well I guess me and my well train non dog aggressive, non reactive bully breed will just keep trumping those stereotypes  

FWIW - his body is what looks most boxer like to me. The deep chest, round eyes, his bottom jaw, ear set and leggy appearance. Also his face looks like every single boxer mix I have ever seen. I seen zero dane. Nothing wrong with a boxer mix


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

Sheltielover25 said:


> How can she be well-trained but still be so reactive she pulled the chain to get to the dog? That doesn't make sense. A well-trained dog doesn't react to stimuli like that, or is trained to react in a positive way, verses pulling and lunging. And no, a dog is not "real raw feeding." Wolves and wild dogs don't eat each other; kill, yes, but eat? That's not hungry and survival, that's aggression, totally different.


That "real raw feeding" comment is so ignorant. Of course I wouldn't expect any less from a troll like her. 

Did anyone catch that photo of my dogs eating next to my cat? THAT is real raw feeding with REAL well trained, happy animals.


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## Elliehanna (Jan 16, 2012)

all the boxer mixes I have seen have looked NOTHING like him, all the dane pitbull mix photos I have seen look a heck of a lot more like him (plus its more the behavior he does than his overall look)

I would say your really lucky to have none reactive animals


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## GoingPostal (Sep 5, 2011)

Sprocket said:


> Well I guess me and my well train non dog aggressive, non reactive bully breed will just keep trumping those stereotypes


Lol my blue mutt is about as un-APBT as you can get too, I don't pretend she's what everybody will end up with or should expect, seems like too many people end up with an easy keeper like her, get another "pit bull" or two and then can't handle it when they get a prey driven, athletic, DA hyper one and guess who gets dumped. Dogs are individuals and I know plenty of well trained DA and reactive dogs who can behave around dogs or other animals, but would not be safe unsupervised with them.


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## JoeynZoey (Apr 25, 2011)

Sprocket said:


> Well I guess me and my well train non dog aggressive, non reactive bully breed will just keep trumping those stereotypes
> 
> FWIW - his body is what looks most boxer like to me. The deep chest, round eyes, his bottom jaw, ear set and leggy appearance. Also his face looks like every single boxer mix I have ever seen. I seen zero dane. Nothing wrong with a boxer mix


Well, you advocate that your dog is a pit bull, when it's not. Your blue dog is a bully mutt and yet, you believe that it is a pit bull. It's no surprise, that you would state, ignorant fur mommy mentalities, when it comes to proper responsible bully breed ownership as a whole. "Stereotypes" to you, are absolute responsibilities for us responsible pit bull/bully owners. You are apart of the problem, as you refuse to acknowledge the fact that, breeds should be approached by their genetic makeup, instead of relying on "training" to ensure, the dog is 100% reliable by nature, in certain circumstances especially. 

So, I advise all of you to thoroughly seek out, proper knowledge, when it comes to the american pit bull terriers/bully breeds/mixes, before advocating ignorant claims. It's that simple. As you all don't realize, just how serious it is for us, to properly ensure that our dogs, do not fail because we had neglected the capabilities/likelihood, of our dog's genetic makeup that cannot be 100% resolved, through any amount of "training". A dog is a dog and an animal at the end of the day. Specific breeds therefore, require specific approaches/requirements by RESPONSIBLE owners, who don't refuse to accept them for what they truly were bred for, for hundreds of years especially. 

Can you fully train a hunting dog to not hunt by instincts or a lab to not retrieve, by instincts? if you can't accept your dog's breed standard/bred for purposes, you have no say for them, in any valid/responsible manner.


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## Roo (Oct 17, 2010)

Schism, 


> I have *learned* to respect every and ALL methods of feeding


The "sarcastic" comment you made below in regards to raw feeding seems to suggest otherwise. . .


> It is partially about training but when you have a DA bull dog and some little pomeranian wanders into your yard... that's real raw feeding right there.


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

And members like this is why I stopped visiting PBC. Keep sending the troops over. Won't change my mind about my wonderful dog that I know perfectly well. Those horrible genetics must have passed him by, oh and every other bully breed dog I know personally as well...

FWIW I don't care to take advice from PBC members. I also don't need to deck my bully breed dog in a 3 inch thick collar with spikes to make myself feel good or tie him up in chains because I can't be bothered to train or care for him. I don't consider any of that responsible when it will just make my dog out to be something he is not. I will continue to manage my perfectly well behaved dog the way he needs to be managed and y'all can keep chaining up your poor dogs and make them seem like monsters. Don't complain when they are banned in every city because YOU have ruined their image.


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

I won't be posting anymore on this thread but I'll leave you with these photos. I should definitely chain up my horrible dog because he might suddenly become a monster and eat all my farm animals since its his genetics after all...











Clearly he is reaching back into his roots and going to eat this poor innocent bird...










Can you read his mind? He is definitely thinking about eating every single dog in this photo...










And lastly, yes I believe that you can manage a reactive dog with training. Here is a very reactive trained pheasant dog that we have had for 2 weeks. Look at how she is going after those birds!! 

All it takes is training and you can have this kind of dog. I don't let my dogs run around unsupervised or loose in the neighborhood so there is no chance of them harming anything. It is TRAINING, that is all.










*No not every dog is the same, but just because your dog is a certain type doesn't mean it will be a monster. We have a hunting dog with an off switch and a bully breed with a permanent off switch. Guess what else? We have a herding breed dog that manages to not herd all the animals to death because he is TRAINED properly.*


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

I am not a bully breed owner, so maybe I shouldn't say anything, but I think the whole huge chain and collar thing tends to give a bad image overall. OP, I am NOT meaning you in this, because you aren't that way at all. But, the root of this discussion is steming from the whole fighter/macho image of bully breeds. Fighters do tend to use the huge chains and such to build up muscles. Thats not the case here, but it is usually going to be the first thought of a lot who see it. 

We all know no one here is fighting their dogs, and the post was originally about the food the dog was eating, not the chain. Someone else just made a comment about it and it snowballed off course bad. It's just a chain, it really means nothing. The dog is beautiful and well cared for which is what matters. I think the whole chain thing should be dropped. JMO.


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## pogo (Aug 28, 2011)

My ambull was bred and used solely in dog fighting. Does that mean i can't trust him around other dogs? of course i can, he is not DA and with careful socialising lives a normal life that a dog should.

People get to caught up on breeds traits, genes and all that shizzle.

We all know our own dogs and what we can and cannot trust them with, and who are we to comment on how others bring their dogs up.


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## pogo (Aug 28, 2011)

schism said:


> *smh...
> Raw feeders preach and preach about how the reason our dogs should consume PMR is because they are carnivores. They have the dentition, GI tract: yada yada. That is where genetics end?
> A bull dog has: a broad jaw, defined musculature, EXTREMELY high pain tolerance, "gameness" (a willingness to do even at great risk of personal harm) and most of all tenacity (the will hold on no matter what)- they are gladiators of the dog world and were BRED for dog on dog combat. If you choose to ignore this, it is at EVERYBODY's risk (your dogs, gp's dogs, passing of more bsl). If you choose to ignore this, you are _____ (fill in the blank).
> Oh and those "horrible genetics passing your bull dog by"-- those genetics are what make the APBT great. Sure they are at war with other dogs, but a more dependable dog with human beings I have never encountered. This is why I don't have 10 dogs or however many you have (I don't want to deal with crate and rotate).
> ...


Guess what none of us care


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## pogo (Aug 28, 2011)

schism said:


> You will when there is a pit bull ban in your area and they take your dogs away to be euthanized.


haha OMG that just shows how much you don't know.

I live in the uk, england to be exact, pitbulls have been banned here since the 90's, neither of my dogs are pits, APBT whatever you want to call them. Get your facts right before you make yourself look like a numpty


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## pogo (Aug 28, 2011)

schism said:


> You will when there is a pit bull ban in your area and they take your dogs away to be euthanized.
> Dangerous dogs « Defra


why the hell have you posted that link?

I know what dogs are banned in this country neither of my dogs are a banned breed so they aren't going anywhere


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

Okay, I had to post again...

It makes ZERO SENSE, to deck your dog in chains and spiked collars to make it look menacing, proudly boast about your dogs reactive attitude to other dogs, and then say that owners that actually take the time to train their dog to be a well respected member of society and help change peoples minds, are the ones that hinder the BSL fight. Don't make me laugh! Seriously? We have dogs that people LIKE, dogs that people WANT to know and feel comfortable with. I have personally been told that Gunner has changed the minds of MANY MANY people, including my family members. THAT IS WHAT HELPS FIGHT BSL. Can anyone with a dog in spikes, chains and pulling at the leash are changing minds positively? I really doubt that would make any ignorant prejudice person want to keep bully breeds around. 

The simple fact is that owners like me are the ones that are helping fight BSL. Owners like you, are the ones driving people to ban them as fast as they can. 

I cannot see how you think what you are doing will do any good. It is simply mind boggling. :tsk:

Also, that comment about my dog reacting to a chihuahua?....Have you met my dogs? I have a very dominant chihuahua and we have never had any issues with Gunner reacting to him (or any other dog for that matter). Try again...










OH look, Gunner with an INTACT male pug and an INTACT chihuahua female. Still waiting for him to eat them...


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

pogo said:


> Guess what none of us care


LMAO. I love this. :llama:


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

Edited - Don't want to feed the troll anymore opcorn:


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## Elliehanna (Jan 16, 2012)

they make chains that can do the same as the one I use on my boy that are smaller BUT I can't find them anywhere out here, I live in a small farming community and our feed store carries these, I wish I could find the smaller links just because it makes less noise (I beleive they weigh the same or very close to the same if I remember right, basically same thickness just smaller)

um my dog has a 2 inch collar on there not a 3 inch...I don't know how he would be able to turn his neck with a 3 inch, the thickness of his collar is because it helps spread the weight of the chain so he doesn't have it sitting on a thin collar and it dig in. I don't own a spiked collar, I have a bull command for my dog where he will pull when I say and how hard I tell him BUT he also knows how to heel and do a full heel as well (where he is looking in my eyes with his head pretty much touching my leg) my dog has NEVER been aloud to attack another dog, he is reactive, he doesn't luck dogs that have no manners and he doesn't like small dogs, in fact he is terrified of 80% of the small dogs he encountered. I don't get why you think a reactive dog doesn't have training, it DOES, training a dog that reacts to fear is hard, you have to have a lot of small dogs that actually have to act appropriately and that is hard to find (most are dominant and therefor act threatening). He is what is known as a DINOS dog, most bully breeds are DINOS, it stands for Dog In Need Of Space, his space is not with humans, but with other dogs and animals. I can walk him past dogs barking at him like I said through fences and houses, he has never attacked a loose dog but he doesn't like dogs on leashes (if you didn't know a loose dog, a dog behind a berrier and a dog on a leash act completely different no matter if they are being behaved or not, they have different body language given off)

The fact that you make people want to get a bully breed might sound good on paper, but if they end up with a reactive dog because they met your dog that could get alone with anything then that is not good and is the reason this breed is so in the hole, people get the cute little puppy and think this will be easy, the word Terrier in this breed is no joke, they are smart but have a mind of their own sometimes (with bully breeds its with the DA) and people end up dealing with a fight because their dog turned on. Oh AND you know your dog can turn on at any age right, I know of a litter of puppies that had to be separated at 6 weeks because they were fighting, then another dog that was cold as cold could be up till age 5, then BAM he HATES other dogs...

realize that the reasons why BSL happens (that it also can't happen where I live unless there is a change to my state constitution which isn't going to happen any time soon) is because of poor containment, its not normal for a dog to react differently than normal IF the owner is present BUT when you remove the discipline and the dog knows it, the dog can show who it truly is and react how it would if left to its own devices. Dogs that typically attack humans are ones that have a screw loose, or are males tracking a female in heat that have had very little human interaction (you can have a house dog with little human interaction so don't be blaming the yard)


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

schism said:


> Yet again. I become a troll when I have a valid point that you happen to disagree with... I don't think I'm the one trolling at this point. You couldn't even answer my questions! Good day.


Nope, again, your assumptions are incorrect, Schism. Or should I call you Skadoosh?


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

Elliehanna said:


> they make chains that can do the same as the one I use on my boy that are smaller BUT I can't find them anywhere out here, I live in a small farming community and our feed store carries these, I wish I could find the smaller links just because it makes less noise (I beleive they weigh the same or very close to the same if I remember right, basically same thickness just smaller)
> 
> um my dog has a 2 inch collar on there not a 3 inch...I don't know how he would be able to turn his neck with a 3 inch, the thickness of his collar is because it helps spread the weight of the chain so he doesn't have it sitting on a thin collar and it dig in. I don't own a spiked collar, I have a bull command for my dog where he will pull when I say and how hard I tell him BUT he also knows how to heel and do a full heel as well (where he is looking in my eyes with his head pretty much touching my leg) my dog has NEVER been aloud to attack another dog, he is reactive, he doesn't luck dogs that have no manners and he doesn't like small dogs, in fact he is terrified of 80% of the small dogs he encountered. I don't get why you think a reactive dog doesn't have training, it DOES, training a dog that reacts to fear is hard, you have to have a lot of small dogs that actually have to act appropriately and that is hard to find (most are dominant and therefor act threatening). He is what is known as a DINOS dog, most bully breeds are DINOS, it stands for Dog In Need Of Space, his space is not with humans, but with other dogs and animals. I can walk him past dogs barking at him like I said through fences and houses, he has never attacked a loose dog but he doesn't like dogs on leashes (if you didn't know a loose dog, a dog behind a berrier and a dog on a leash act completely different no matter if they are being behaved or not, they have different body language given off)
> 
> ...



I never said I make people want a bully breed. Gunner just changes their negative thoughts about them. They see a well behaved, friendly, training dog with a responsible owner and realise that thugs and idiots aren't the only ones who like these dogs. I never recommend them to anyone because I don't trust half the dog owners I know to be able to properly care for one. 

Good luck with your dogs weight. He does look much better than previous photos.


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

schism said:


> I made a formal apology to the entire forum for my previous behaviour. I have since changed my behaviour so that I could rejoin this group. I have in no way been cruel or made negative insinuations towards you. I have simply stated the truth.
> It surprises me to this day how information that is so readily available is completely ignored.
> You are deluded if you believe that a bull dog is like every other dog. You are deluded if you believe Gunner couldn't turn on your other dogs. You are deluded if you believe "it's all in how you train them". Continue being deluded. The sad thing about it is: you are not the only one who could potentially suffer from your delusions.


I won't be addressing you anymore after this post. Feel free to talk to yourself Skadoosh.

You may have apologized but you are just a troll. In my opinion the moderators need to ban you because of your previous trolling actions. I am not sure how you flew under the radar.

Good luck with your pit mix, or is it a boxer? Or is it a boston terrier? 

*http://dogfoodchat.com/forum/raw-feeding/18285-interesting-newscast-tonight-4.html

Hello. 
I will save you the time and admit that I am the person you suspect me of being. I have sent an apology to the moderators and I apologize to you if I have offended you or other members in the past. 
I wish to become a positive member of this forum if the moderators will allow me to stay. 
Not to justify my past actions, I at times felt backed into a corner. I reacted without self control and ended up being kicked off (I understand why). I wish to stay on this forum as I do have much to contribute (positively). 
I sometimes come off as brash but I am just trying to convey my opinion. I know I must refine my people skills... *sigh
Yes. There were times I attempted to ruffle feathers by being a nasty person... this is not truly me. This is a person knowing that they are wrong and becoming defensive. 
I hope the moderators and members could possibly forgive me and allow me to become an active member of this forum once again. Even if there was a probationary period...?
I wish to do the best for my dog Ruby and I am interested in (possibly) transitioning to raw. The members on this forum are VERY helpful/knowledgable and I truly wish to learn. I hope that this can be possible. 
I do NOT wish to stir the proverbial pot but I will state my opinion and it may differ from others. I will just do it in a much more positive way. 
OP- I apologize for temporarily hijacking.*

I don't buy your bull ****. The mods may have but if you can't own up to your previous actions when you are called out, then you will continue to lie, infuriate and fool people on this forum. You are skadoosh, the troll. I hope you don't continue to talk negatively about raw, then turn around and mess up your own dog with your ill attempt to switch to raw. You are a joke.


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## JoeynZoey (Apr 25, 2011)

Sprocket, good for you to negatively call out an entire board with well known responsible/proper advocates of: American pit bull terriers, american Staffordshire terriers, American bully's, and all bully breed mixes. Simply because, you personally and anyone else with the same mentalities, refuse to respect the breeds as they were bred for, to properly accept them and own them responsibly, therefore. It's also hilarious how, you continue to show a stereotypical mentality, when it comes to seeing a dog on a chain etc. Just shows how much more uneducated, you continue to remain as. This is what we call "the tv/ASPCA/PETA has taught me what is right and wrong here".

You own a bully mutt, come back and continue to show your cute little dog photos, when you get a full bred american pit bull terrier or another bully mutt for that matter, that decides, it's not going to be so tolerant and "well trained" as you state, to be lassie and air bud's best buddy. I want to see you or anyone else who continues to preach ignorance about breeds they know nothing about, rehearse all of these "facts" to a bully breeder/owner who has been breeding/owning these dogs, for 10-15+ years. 

So you go on, continuing to ignorantly advocate your bully mutt and continue to show and preach to the general public and to those who don't any better themselves, unfortunately (because it's just SO impossible to accept the breed for what they are), your blindness, in denial, delusional and uneducated "facts", as you are doing here with the rest of any ignorant individuals, following you right behind. 

It's a shame to see such a group, defend and properly advocate a dog's NATURAL diet, but then refuse to do the same, when it comes to the hundreds of breeds existing today. Which were all bred for their specific standards, consistently, and differ from one another and what they will mature to display by their nature/intended purposes, in conclusion. It's really quite pathetic actually. 

So Ellie, I am sorry to see such a response over your proper, precautionary, and responsible ways to your dog. Glad he is owned by you at the end of the day, good job with him.


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## Elliehanna (Jan 16, 2012)

in reality on this thread the troll IS Sprocket, people that have not understood why to chain a dog have simply asked, Sprocket has been very much the troll with the negativity and the refusal to understand. Like I said before, its like training a retriever to not retrieve, a water dog to stay out of the lake, a rater not to sniff for vermin and a beagle not to bay...just not happening, there are some of these breeds that are cold and are put in pet homes but that is few and far between.

Thank you for seeing Goren's improvement to his weight, hopefully muscle mass will follow but I am guessing his breed make up will make that not happen


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## pogo (Aug 28, 2011)

schism said:


> Ok I have to bite- how does AC (or whoever inforces this law in England) know they are, in fact, pit bulls? Are the registered APBT's the only ones illegal or can they be bully mutts or mixes? Anything blocky headed, smooth coat, muscular is pinned as "pit bull". You don't see that you may be at risk? Unless both of your dogs are registered?
> I know in the states and in some Canadian provinces, it only has to LOOK pit bull to be seized. Or are English laws different?
> You have a Staffy (American Staffordshire terrier or Staffordshire Bull terrier?) and an American Bull dog. Are either of them registered? So if your dogs viciously attacked/mauled another dog, would your dogs be free from the "dangerous dog" act?
> I kind of doubt it...
> Pet Pitbull - Find the Pit Bull


Sigh

Any dog who is deemed to be a APBT or a cross of is banned ok.

Our ban on pits is not the same as ou guys seem to get over there.

My 'staffy' is a staffordshire bull terrier who is KC reg, my ambull is a rescue.

You do realise things are very different over here and how things are run don't you.

Don't go shouting that little mouth off on things you clearly don't have a clue about


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

schism said:


> *smh...
> Raw feeders preach and preach about how the reason our dogs should consume PMR is because they are carnivores. They have the dentition, GI tract: yada yada. That is where genetics end?
> A bull dog has: a broad jaw, defined musculature, EXTREMELY high pain tolerance, "gameness" (a willingness to do even at great risk of personal harm) and most of all tenacity (the will hold on no matter what)- they are gladiators of the dog world and were BRED for dog on dog combat. If you choose to ignore this, it is at EVERYBODY's risk (your dogs, gp's dogs, passing of more bsl). If you choose to ignore this, you are _____ (fill in the blank).
> Oh and those "horrible genetics passing your bull dog by"-- those genetics are what make the APBT great. Sure they are at war with other dogs, but a more dependable dog with human beings I have never encountered. This is why I don't have 10 dogs or however many you have (I don't want to deal with crate and rotate).
> ...


Sounds like you are contributing to their already bad reputation. Do you like that? Are you proud of the image you have portrayed? It sounds like you are one who thrives off the macho/bad dog image thugs give them. Some breeds can be dog aggressive yes, but you are describing a monster. Exactly what has given the breeds their bad rap.


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## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

Thats what I thought too. After reading the information on this thread from people who own pitbulls or pitbull crosses, there is no way now that I would ever want to adopt one, I am too scared to. Why would you want a dog you can never trust, one that can turn on someone or another pet in your family or someone elses family? Why would you want to take the risk? Surely the constant surveillance, the separating, the chains, the liability, all that worry must get old sometimes. 
I may be wrong, but it's sad considering all the pitbull crosses in the shelters nowadays, our shelter is predominately full of them, but I now would be too scared to give one a home.


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## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

And, I have to ask this. The OP, did she go away for 4 days and leave her dog chained outside, alone? Please tell me I'm wrong, that would make me very happy.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

MollyWoppy said:


> And, I have to ask this. The OP, did she go away for 4 days and leave her dog chained outside, alone? Please tell me I'm wrong, that would make me very happy.



I was actually going to ask the same thing! I thought maybe I misunderstood...

But if the dog is aggressive at all, chain or not, kenneled or not, it's pretty irresponsible IMO to leave the dog outside for 4 days...things happen. I don't agree with leaving a dog outside REGARDLESS for 4 days (or any days), but if it's aggressive, that's even worse...


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

MollyWoppy said:


> Thats what I thought too. After reading the information on this thread from people who own pitbulls or pitbull crosses, there is no way now that I would ever want to adopt one, I am too scared to. Why would you want a dog you can never trust, one that can turn on someone or another pet in your family or someone elses family? Why would you want to take the risk? Surely the constant surveillance, the separating, the chains, the liability, all that worry must get old sometimes.
> I may be wrong, but it's sad considering all the pitbull crosses in the shelters nowadays, our shelter is predominately full of them, but I now would be too scared to give one a home.


All the people in the past I have known who have had them, have come from reputable breeders, and the pups were brought up right. They had other dogs with them as well and never a problem. Where the dog comes from makes a difference. They really aren't a bad breed, just strong and need an experianced owner. A lot of breeds are like that, unfortunantly thugs have given the pits and pit mixes a bad name with the descriptions you have seen in this thread. That they are going to run around killing anything and everything they see. When you see this stuff on the news, generally what type people do you see involved? Not the responsible ones.


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## Elliehanna (Jan 16, 2012)

to answer the question 1st, YES my dog was outside chained for 4 days, my dog IS an outside dog, he has access to a room that has a concrete floor and 3 doghouses, he is not aloud in the house accept for a bath because my dad (who owns my home, doesn't live here) is allergic to all things with fur or feathers and it has gotten worse as he has gotten older, he aloud me to get Goren if I kept him primarily as an outside dog. People that shun dogs living outside don't understand that some dogs don't like to be inside for to long (my boy is in that list, he doesn't mind to be in a little bit, and is potty trained, but he really prefers to be outside) His yard also has a fence so 90% of the time he is not chained, while I was gone I had a friend come and feed and check on him so it wasn't like he was alone for 4 days with no contact (the friend is like a 2nd mom to him and he listens to her well so don't think he was just fed and had no contact).

On the note of the statement about why would you own a pitbull...
the ATTS.org
Breed Name Tested	Passed	Failed	Percent
American Pit Bull Terrier 839	728	111	86.8%
American Staffordshire Terrier	646	544	102	84.2%
American Bulldog	193	165	28	85.5%
Staffordshire Bull Terrier	124	112	12	90.3%

for comparison sake

Australian Shepherd	657	537	120	81.7%
Shetland Sheepdog	499	340	159	68.1%
Labrador Retriever	783	723	60	92.3%
German Shepherd Dog	3133	2,651	482	84.6%
Golden Retriever 776 661 115	85.2%
Doberman Pinscher	1629	1,274	355	78.2%
Chinese Shar-Pei	212	150	62	70.8%

Dog Aggression and Human Aggression are TOTALLY different and a bully breed that is human aggressive has brain problems, these dogs should help the theif find your jewelry and put the tv in the car and then jump in for a ride. So I don't see how a bully breed is different than any other breed, the standard has no guarding instinct in it, and is considered a fault by many people, human aggression in the breed is cause for culling the dog.


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## JoeynZoey (Apr 25, 2011)

MollyWoppy said:


> Thats what I thought too. After reading the information on this thread from people who own pitbulls or pitbull crosses, there is no way now that I would ever want to adopt one, I am too scared to. Why would you want a dog you can never trust, one that can turn on someone or another pet in your family or someone elses family? Why would you want to take the risk? Surely the constant surveillance, the separating, the chains, the liability, all that worry must get old sometimes.
> I may be wrong, but it's sad considering all the pitbull crosses in the shelters nowadays, our shelter is predominately full of them, but I now would be too scared to give one a home.


This is exactly why, dogs of different breeds do not belong in most households throughout this country, today. People only want a cute fur ball of joy that acts like a "child" to their human masters (humanizing the animal), when in reality, people simply fail to do their research on breeds and to thoroughly accept and respect the breed, for what they are vs, blindly thinking you can just do a 180 and create them to be, everything against their bred for purposes. Just so you can pretend that they are human children (it's all in how you raise them) and not animals at the end of the day (proper responsible ownership) .

If a breed doesn't match your lifestyle, your desire to own this type of dog for what will be required, to ensure proper responsible ownership, that's fine and completely understandable. However, to call the breed and it's owners who are passionate and respectful towards them for what they are, anything negative, just because you can't/refuse to own one, is so foolish. Not to mention, to continue to be in denial, for what they still are by genetics. We love our dogs for what they are and that is why we own them, call it what you would like, but we're not the owners you will see, setting our dogs up to fail (which to you people, is CRUEL methods of proper containment, rules etc). It's sad that people can't just realize how much time, and responsibility we do abide by and appreciate/respect that, vs claiming to call us all just "thugs" or "dog fighters" etc, for abiding by simple responsible acts, to keep our dogs safe and happy. Simply because, your dog/breed doesn't need such precautions/approaches and we do it for ours. Dogs were all bred for different purposes, that is the point and reasoning behind dog breeds that have existed for hundreds of years. Why disrespect the diversity simply because, YOU won't own one that doesn't fit your personality/lifestyle?

By the way, DOG AGGRESSION is not the same thing as HUMAN AGGRESSION. Do you people really lack such basic senses and logic? So should I see a border collie herding animals and use that as a valid reason to claim that, it will turn on humans by only wanting to always herd them? or a hunting dog out to sense and hunt down prey as a reason to predict, that it will hunt me down and kill me as well?


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

No body said anything about people aggression. (Although it happens).

Yes, herding breeds will try to "herd" people sometimes, usually kids while playing. That's not aggression that's being refered to here. The talk here is about pits breaking two ton chains and becoming killing machines. It's getting ridiculous, but apparently there are some here who are proud of that.


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## Elliehanna (Jan 16, 2012)

um I don't think anyone thinks its a good thing for a dog to break its containment, and the reason owners like me use such strong chain set ups, if you use something that is rated for 100 lbs for a dog that can pull 2 thousand you can see that can be a problem. We also don't want our dogs to break containment and kill things, that is why we want them contained and want to prevent animals of any kind from becoming victims of poor containment. I always say "fences are for keeping things out NOT in" My boy has, like I said, never broken his containment, never gone over his fence, never gotten into a fight. He also doesn't like dogs to much, he has gone through advanced obedience classes and warms up to dogs he meats over a period of time to where he isn't freaked out by them but sill doesn't want to interact with them.


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

So yours IS one who would "kill things" if loose....... Got ya. I understand. But I also don't think you are using the chain to build muscle for fighting. You aren't that type of dog owner. It's for precautions and that is understandable.


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## Sheltielover25 (Jan 18, 2011)

Elliehanna said:


> to answer the question 1st, YES my dog was outside chained for 4 days, my dog IS an outside dog, he has access to a room that has a concrete floor and 3 doghouses, he is not aloud in the house accept for a bath because my dad (who owns my home, doesn't live here) is allergic to all things with fur or feathers and it has gotten worse as he has gotten older, he aloud me to get Goren if I kept him primarily as an outside dog. People that shun dogs living outside don't understand that some dogs don't like to be inside for to long (my boy is in that list, he doesn't mind to be in a little bit, and is potty trained, but he really prefers to be outside) His yard also has a fence so 90% of the time he is not chained, while I was gone I had a friend come and feed and check on him so it wasn't like he was alone for 4 days with no contact (the friend is like a 2nd mom to him and he listens to her well so don't think he was just fed and had no contact).
> 
> On the note of the statement about why would you own a pitbull...
> the ATTS.org
> ...


Whoa! Isn't that ILLEGAL??? I'm trying to get a dog taken away from a girl right now in Oklahoma who leaves this pup outside all day/evening, he's a smaller dog granted, but they said the only way they can take him away is if he's neglected and left out several days with no care. Someone coming over for 20 minutes once a day doesn't count as care. Too bad we don't have the same laws you have so I could get this dog taken away and then pull it into a rescue I work with.

I have NO respect for anyone who leaves a dog outside full-time... WHY have a pet? and WHY have an agrressive pet kept outside, that if off the leash would kill, when no one is home or around for the majority of four days?! That's about as irresponsible as you can get. This dog, if it can't be trusted around other dogs, which has nothing to do with breed -- my mom had a vicious boston who never learened to do well with others -- then the last thing it needs is to be tied up and tempted and teased at things passing by... building up emotions of frustrations...

AND Dogs, no matter the BREED, as PACK animals and it's nothing but bull to say "oh, mine loves spending every waking moment outside, away from me." Pack animals ALWAYS sleep together, granted they have an order, but they don't go sleep alone night after night after night. Dog house or not, it's wrong. My dogs are family members and family members don't sleep outside EVER!!!!


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## Sheltielover25 (Jan 18, 2011)

I was curious what the laws regarding tying a dog up where and found it's illegal in some states, and leaving them out multiple days is considered neglect in several... Illinois doesn't have anything listed so I suppose they don't care, but glad to see other states getting on board and outlawing or severaly restricting.
http://www.animallaw.info/articles/State Tables/tbustetherlaws.htm


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## GoingPostal (Sep 5, 2011)

MollyWoppy said:


> Why would you want a dog you can never trust, one that can turn on someone or another pet in your family or someone elses family? Why would you want to take the risk? Surely the constant surveillance, the separating, the chains, the liability, all that worry must get old sometimes. .


Do you really think that risk stops at pit bulls? I know plenty of different breeds of dogs who've gotten in bad enough fights when unsupervised that one is put down, I know many cats killed by dogs of all breeds because the owners thought their dogs were "safe" around them alone. I recently took in a ferret who killed the owners parrot, not because he's vicious, because he's a predator and he wasn't caged. I took in 3 other ferrets who were trying very hard to kill kittens. If one of my mice gets loose, my cat will eat it. There's a risk any time you bring animals into your home and expecting them to all live like Ol McDonalds is pretty unrealistic. 

Not every pit bull is going to get in a fight or be DA, people in the breed are just very tired of those who deny the traits they are prone to or act like training or socializing is going to guarantee you a cold friendly dog when that attitude is what gets so many killed and dumped. It's fine if they aren't the breed for you, I don't want dogs that slobber, dogs that guard, dogs that shed long hair everywhere, or barky neurotic ones. I don't want the work or headache with that. Crating a dog and exercising one at a time isn't a problem for me. Everybody has to decide what they are willing to deal with.


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## Savage Destiny (Mar 16, 2011)

MollyWoppy said:


> Thats what I thought too. After reading the information on this thread from people who own pitbulls or pitbull crosses, there is no way now that I would ever want to adopt one, I am too scared to. Why would you want a dog you can never trust, one that can turn on someone or another pet in your family or someone elses family? Why would you want to take the risk? Surely the constant surveillance, the separating, the chains, the liability, all that worry must get old sometimes.
> I may be wrong, but it's sad considering all the pitbull crosses in the shelters nowadays, our shelter is predominately full of them, but I now would be too scared to give one a home.


This is ridiculous. 

I have known people with littermate Golden Retrievers that killed each other when the owner wasn't home and they were alone together. I know someone with Jack Russels who has to keep them separated 100% of the time because her male decided that he wants to kill her female. Someone on another forum came home to discover that her two GSDs killed her Belgian Shepherd mix while she was gone. Heck, I talked to someone at work with two Puggles who got into it over a green bean and one of them lost an eye, and now they can't be together at all. So I suppose all of those breeds are too scary to own now too. Better get rid of Mollie, she's got GSD in her! 

To be blunt and honest, APBT owners (at least the responsible ones) are only taking the precautions that every dog owner SHOULD be taking. Properly containing dogs, separating dogs when unsupervised, not having dogs running around off-leash in public places. We just have to be more paranoid about it because one negative encounter can result in a breed ban. People can be idiots with other breeds all they want, and that doesn't happen, so they continue. 

Any dog can have prey drive or dog aggression. I've known plenty of cat killers of all breeds. My friend has a herding dog mix who would totally eat the cat he lives with if he could. Some of the most dog aggressive dogs I've ever met have been Labs and Goldens. We groom a Golden that is so DA he has to be walked in and out with a muzzle. Furthermore, dogs should never be left alone together- even dog friendly dogs have bad days, or get cranky, and without someone to intervene a small spat can quickly turn into a brawl. Most of you seem to be forgetting that dogs are animals with teeth which are used to settle disputes among their own species. They're not teddy bears or stuffed animals. Stuff happens sometimes, and the responsible thing to do is keep them separated to prevent issues. I just read a thread on another forum where a dog killed the cat he lived with and had always loved when they were left alone together... turned out he had a brain tumor and ended up being PTS. 

Riddle has dog issues. They're easily managed. She's not going to "turn on a family member". She and Melon get along, and I'm not stupid enough to leave them alone where a snark over a toy or chew could escalate without intervention. It's just common sense, not rocket science. Not stressful or freaky, because guess what? They're not alone together!


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## pogo (Aug 28, 2011)

Id love an APBT and certainly would if the ban is ever lifted  lovely dogs


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## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

I don't think it's fair to say no dog should be left alone with another. My two IGs are much, much happier together (as most of their breed is).. mind you, the breed itself is very submissive and soft. I also don't leave any treats, toys, etc in the crate, even though they aren't possessive.. they steal bones from each other all the time when chewing.


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## kady05 (Jul 29, 2011)

Ahh this thread is one of the main reasons I don't post or share pictures here anymore.. since you know, no one from PBC is apparently welcome here, since we're all terrible dog owners who perpetuate an image, right Sprocket?


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## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

I don't think you do, Kady.. I love seeing pics of your dogs, Especially Sock-o


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

kady05 said:


> Ahh this thread is one of the main reasons I don't post or share pictures here anymore.. since you know, no one from PBC is apparently welcome here, since we're all terrible dog owners who perpetuate an image, right Sprocket?


Not all, just the majority.  You post plenty of photos here, its the only reason you come anymore.


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## kady05 (Jul 29, 2011)

Caty M said:


> I don't think you do, Kady.. I love seeing pics of your dogs, Especially Sock-o


Thanks, but I'm not keen on being a member of a community who has such a close minded view of just about everything. Unfortunate. I do still recommend people here in regards to raw feeding, however.



Sprocket said:


> Not all, just the majority.  You post plenty of photos here, its the only reason you come anymore.


Sorry that the PBC community doesn't sugar coat things and promotes responsible breed ownership. 

Last photo thread I posted was in October, forgive me, I didn't realize you owned the forum and only certain people get a "pass" to post here.


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

kady05 said:


> Thanks, but I'm not keen on being a member of a community who has such a close minded view of just about everything. Unfortunate. I do still recommend people here in regards to raw feeding, however.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well since I own the forum now, I guess you should wander back to the forum YOU own and have fun moderating your responsible dog owners that do so much for the breeds public presence...


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