# "New" vet tomorrow



## DaneLover228 (Nov 29, 2011)

Ok, so tomorrow Monty goes to a new vet tomorrow for his "check up" I guess you would call it. We've been to this vet before, but not since we switched to raw. It was before I even heard about raw. I'm a little nervous. I'm not really sure what to expect. He's going to get bloodwork done and I know with raw some of the numbers might be a little different than "normal". How do I explain to the vet that we feed him raw meat? And if the vet has a problem with it, what do I say? I'm not really good at sticking up for myself in these sorts of situations.

Do I just let Montys health speak for itself? This vet knows all about his crazy digestive system. He's the one who discovered it and saved Montys life. I'm hoping that he sees the improvement that I see and will approve of raw. 

Ugh. I'm just a nervous wreck.


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

If he asks tell him you are feeding a fully ballanced raw diet that is referred to as Prey Model Raw. If he doesn't ask, don't say anything!!:wink:

I would write down the PMR website on a card so you can give it to him if he asks more questions that you can't answer. Also might be a good idea to write down(for you) the numbers of the blood work that might be a little "off" compaired to kibble fed dogs, so that when they tell them/show them to you you will know which ones to be fine with!!:thumb:

And above all......remember the vet works for YOU not the other way around!!:biggrin:


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

I'm not good at confrontation either. I know how you feel. But especially with this vet, shouldn't the difference in your dog say it all? Maybe he even supports raw.

We just moved and I took my dog to four vets and picked one. I told them all I feed raw - it was no big deal. Most of them actually asked me what kind of food i gave her so it made it natural to bring it up.

And my dog's bloodwork isn't abnormal. It's perfect. Maybe yours will be too 

It does seem to me if he saw Monty when he was very ill, and now he's not ill, there's not much to argue against raw feeding.


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

Girl, take a big girl pill and get ready to go. LOL :wink: I rarely go to the vet but when argued with I just tell them I feed a species appropriate diet that I feel is the best that I can do for my carnivores and I have given them this information so they are clear on all aspects of my dogs health to better treat them. My method of feeding is not up for debate and will not change, they get variety, all necessary nutrients and are extremely healthy. If I am getting bloodwork it is to evaluate if I need to add something or make a small change to their diet that they as indiciduals might need. I research and am very comfortable in the obvious success of my feeding practices. Just like in dog training, keep your shoulders back, head up, visualize the behavior your are looking for and expect to get it. Be pleasant and confident. Lord knows we needs some good representatives with all the goofball feeding only chicken out there. LOL KNOWLEDGE + RESEARCH = CONFIDENCE You are doing good and your Monty looks lovely!


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## DaneLover228 (Nov 29, 2011)

LOL. I know I need to put on some big girl panties. No matter what, I am not changing what I feed him. He loves it, and he is SO much healthier. I just don't like arguing and drama. I don't think Monty would touch kibble anymore anyway. Not after getting flank steak tonight....while I was eating Kraft mac and cheese from a box!


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

DaneLover228 said:


> LOL. I know I need to put on some big girl panties. No matter what, I am not changing what I feed him. He loves it, and he is SO much healthier. I just don't like arguing and drama. I don't think Monty would touch kibble anymore anyway. Not after getting flank steak tonight....while I was eating Kraft mac and cheese from a box!


My solution is simple - I don't want to argue. So I just find a vet that doesn't argue with me. So far, it's worked pretty well except for the ER vet in Indiana, who I couldn't avoid. 

The ER vet here in Texas was just fine when she found a chicken head in Snorkels' stomach on the x-ray so I like her.


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

Really, no picking on you. Monty looks great Just answer questions with a smile and if you don't know just say you will research and get the information to the vet. But seriously good posture and eye contact goes a long way. People don't really argue with me because it is not open to discussion. I hope you have a great visit. Can't wait to hear how it all goes. You will be wonderful. Just keep looking at your lovely boy.


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## monkeys23 (Dec 8, 2010)

I wish you luck that it goes well, just keep confident and remember your knowledge like everyone said!

Actually before the first visit post-transition, I had NEVER once been asked what I fed my dog. Well okay, maybe once when I brought Lily in for constipation, but that was the new vet who isn't our regular there... I said Acana and she said okay thats a good food. Anyway I digress! When I brought her in for her annual after being on raw I think four months, maybe five, the vet was all excited over her perfect weight/muscles like normal and when she got to the teeth, which have always been good even on kibble, she started freaking about how awesome her mouth looked for a 4yr old dog and asked what I was feeding her. I was so freaking nervous, but it turned out to be fine. I think she assumed I fed all commercial because I mentioned quite a few whole animal parts and then the primal sardine grind. Whatever, as long as I didn't get yelled at, I don't care.

She pretty much did the same thing with Scout except asked what I was doing to clean her teeth instead of what she was eating. So I list off the RMB variety and they seemed A-OK with that. The tech sure didn't like Scout's topline.... but she also doesn't know where Scout came from and that it cannot be helped... and her showline GSD (the tech's) was in for skin problems and was clearly overweight with a nasty coat. I'll keep my very healthy yet awkward looking hoarding bust reject thanks!


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

monkeys23 said:


> The tech sure didn't like Scout's topline.... but she also doesn't know where Scout came from and that it cannot be helped... and her showline GSD (the tech's) was in for skin problems and was clearly overweight with a nasty coat. I'll keep my very healthy yet awkward looking hoarding bust reject thanks!


A vet tech told you she didn't like the way your dog is shaped? Did you poke her in the nose?

I almost did when the ER vet called Snorkels parrot mouth. She has a very big overbite. My vet (who loved her) said that but it didn't sound like it did when the ER vet said it. I didn't poke him in the nose, but I told him if he called her a name again I would.


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## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

Sometimes I wonder if these vets even stop and think before they speak. I can imagine why someone with a dog from a show breeder would be offended but do they ever stop and think that not all dogs came from the right place??? A lot of the dogs you guys own had terrible beginnings and are lucky they are in the loving homes they are in. Who cares what they look like? They are healthy and shouldn't that be what matters?

For the record, I would have poked the vet in the nose if I were in your shoes (both of you)... They may have an incorrect topline and they may have a parrot mouth but a vet who said that would definitely get a poke in the nose from me, show dog or shelter dog.


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## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

I only truly admitted to my vet a couple of weeks ago that I feed raw, and that's after, 2 years, (I think). They are very anti-raw, but I told them that I want to be very responsible about it and will get blood tests and urinalysis done each year, or more often if they think it's necessary. That if a bloodtest show's something is amiss, I'll tweak her diet to adjust for it. They couldn't really argue with that, and I must admit its the first time I've left there without a sample bag of Science Diet.
I'll give it to my vet, he couldn't have been nicer about Mol's all over health and condition. 
I've found it very hard to admit it to them too, I just can't be bothered arguing, but this time I went in with the attitude that I'm going to prove them wrong, that if I do it responsibly and if they find that Mol is thriving and healthy over the years to come, it just might force them to change their minds.


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## erinwagner (Aug 30, 2010)

Went into my vet this week with my 16 week old lab for his final vaccinations....and I mean final. I invited him to a seminar coming up at my training/daycare facility. Lew Olson author of "Raw and Natural Nutrition for Dogs" is coming on March 3rd to talk about RAW feeding. I told him it might be nice for him to come to it. I know he would never feed his dogs RAW, nor would he promote it but I told him I know I'm not the only client that feeds RAW so wouldn't it be worth your while to at least understand it a little bit better so you could deal with those clients of yours that do. He proceeded to tell me he had just come from a seminar at the U of MN about canine digestion...and that peoples digestive systems are just like dogs.....and they are susceptible to the same things we are....blah, blah, blah. He said if they contract these things....like salmonella...they are very hard to treat. I told him that kibble gets recalled all the time. Right after my pup got his shot he left a nice runny "prize" on the exam room floor. As I picked it up and put it in a bag......turkey bone shards and all...I giggled quietly to myself. At least I tried.


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## monkeys23 (Dec 8, 2010)

xellil said:


> A vet tech told you she didn't like the way your dog is shaped? Did you poke her in the nose?
> 
> I almost did when the ER vet called Snorkels parrot mouth. She has a very big overbite. My vet (who loved her) said that but it didn't sound like it did when the ER vet said it. I didn't poke him in the nose, but I told him if he called her a name again I would.


I just said well all the other shepherd (GSD/Belgian/Mal were all definitely in that hoarders mix in some variation) heavy dogs from that bust have the same topline. Same tech also lets her GSD ride loose in her pickup bed... I really don't care what she thinks of my dog! 
Scout's normal (well actually better than most dogs in that she's extremely muscular and lean and strong!) everywhere else, she just has a very bony topline. I actually have to be very careful not to overfeed her or she gets the poops... she might gain a little beer gut if overfed, but thats it. She's just a lean, mean, running machine. This one dog that has to be a littermate that I saw a pic of looks EXACTLY like her except her eyes are lighter and she's silver sabler instead of red sable. It was so weird to see a pic of her! I've seen a bunch of pics of dogs from that bust and know someone who worked at the shelter that did initial intake... most of the had the same topline Scout has. Its definitely genetic. As are her anxiety issues...


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

i don't know why, but I feel glad that I have no idea what a topline is. So I can't notice whether one is bad or good.


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## monkeys23 (Dec 8, 2010)

erinwagner said:


> Went into my vet this week with my 16 week old lab for his final vaccinations....and I mean final. I invited him to a seminar coming up at my training/daycare facility. Lew Olson author of "Raw and Natural Nutrition for Dogs" is coming on March 3rd to talk about RAW feeding. I told him it might be nice for him to come to it. I know he would never feed his dogs RAW, nor would he promote it but I told him I know I'm not the only client that feeds RAW so wouldn't it be worth your while to at least understand it a little bit better so you could deal with those clients of yours that do. He proceeded to tell me he had just come from a seminar at the U of MN about canine digestion...and that peoples digestive systems are just like dogs.....and they are susceptible to the same things we are....blah, blah, blah. He said if they contract these things....like salmonella...they are very hard to treat. I told him that kibble gets recalled all the time. Right after my pup got his shot he left a nice runny "prize" on the exam room floor. As I picked it up and put it in a bag......turkey bone shards and all...I giggled quietly to myself. At least I tried.


Wow there are really vets that think our digestive tracts are the same?!?! WTF!?!?! Their colons are so freaking much shorter than ours... their stomach acid naturally much more acidic... their teeth made for crushing and shearing meat/bone.... all the better to digest meat/bone/organ with! Wow, that just blows me away and not in a good way. *shakes head*

I don't get how this is not common sense. I mean, seriously all you have to do is pull up those lips and look at those teeth. That ain't an omnivore! Just shows how friggin' brainwashed people are as a whole by advertising and just what clout big corporations carry.... scary stuff! Zombie apocalypse anyone? Lol, sorry I just watched the Resident Evil movies again.


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## DaneLover228 (Nov 29, 2011)

Ok. So yesterday wasn't horrible, but it wasn't awesome either.

Monty gets SUPER nervous at the vet. So much that it causes his temperature to go up. When the vet first came in, she said that was the cause for his fever, because he just shakes the whole time he's there. THEN she asked what I feed. I told her a Prey Model Raw Diet. She was okay with that until she asked where I bought it. I told her the grocery store and wholesale meat distributors.

She said that she wanted to caution me because since I have a large breed dog who isn't done growing I could really mess him up if it isn't properly balanced and had proper calcium/phosphorous ratio. I explained to her that he gets a variety of different proteins and organs. She just told me to be careful. She said she doesn't mind a raw diet if it's a premade one, but she cautions people who do it on their own.

Other than his fever he is perfectly healthy. All his joints are fine. His bloodwork was fine. She said he needs to gain a couple pounds, but that's it.


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

DaneLover228 said:


> Ok. So yesterday wasn't horrible, but it wasn't awesome either.
> 
> Monty gets SUPER nervous at the vet. So much that it causes his temperature to go up. When the vet first came in, she said that was the cause for his fever, because he just shakes the whole time he's there. THEN she asked what I feed. I told her a Prey Model Raw Diet. She was okay with that until she asked where I bought it. I told her the grocery store and wholesale meat distributors.
> 
> ...


She sounds like a vet who is "trying"....but doesnt understand the whole concept!:wink:

But she IS right...if done wrong you CAN screw up your dog.....so all in all sounds like it went very well(other then poor boy's white coat syndrome!:frown

Now, wait till he is....say 4 or 5 looks A-MAZ-ING and goes in for his yearly check up and you bring it up that he was the one who was "home made" raw fed from a youngster...she will be SHOCKED!!!:biggrin:


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

DaneLover228 said:


> Ok. So yesterday wasn't horrible, but it wasn't awesome either.
> 
> Monty gets SUPER nervous at the vet. So much that it causes his temperature to go up. When the vet first came in, she said that was the cause for his fever, because he just shakes the whole time he's there. THEN she asked what I feed. I told her a Prey Model Raw Diet. She was okay with that until she asked where I bought it. I told her the grocery store and wholesale meat distributors.
> 
> ...


All in all, I don't think that's a bad response. AFter reading about the people who feed only turkey necks or chicken breasts, I can more understand a vet's reluctance to give their full blessing.

HOWEVER, if would be nice if a vet had, in their office, a handout for people who say they feed raw with the basics and links to sites like this, and to Lonsdale's book etc. Rather than just saying it's bad, they could be helpful. And people would not be lying to them about what they feed their dogs, also.

i think you are off to a decent start, and as time goes on your dog will impress her more and more!


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## Mondo (Dec 20, 2011)

It's a bit of a conundrum. I thought Tuffy was showing signs of arthritis, and took him to a holistic vet. The vets are okay with raw feeding there, in fact the advise it, more of a barf thing, but whatever. Turns out he has a torn or partially torn cruciate ligament. So they give him some acupuncture, laser and chiropractic, send us home with herbs. 3 days later he hasn't shown much improvement, so I take him a regular vet and ask for metacam. He got a shot and some drops. I'll half dose him, but his improvement overnight is marked. The herbs did nothing far as I can tell. This vet didn't ask much, but checked his teeth and found them remarkable. Yes he had a dental in November, but I am convinced the raw feeding is going to pay huge dividends. 

Anyway, in "short" lol -- I like traditional medicine for the most part. I like the holistic body manipulation and support or raw feeding. 

I think I'll continue with both and not tell them about each other, unless of course my boys' safety is at stake.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Mondo said:


> It's a bit of a conundrum. I thought Tuffy was showing signs of arthritis, and took him to a holistic vet. The vets are okay with raw feeding there, in fact the advise it, more of a barf thing, but whatever. Turns out he has a torn or partially torn cruciate ligament. So they give him some acupuncture, laser and chiropractic, send us home with herbs. 3 days later he hasn't shown much improvement, so I take him a regular vet and ask for metacam. He got a shot and some drops. I'll half dose him, but his improvement overnight is marked. The herbs did nothing far as I can tell. This vet didn't ask much, but checked his teeth and found them remarkable. Yes he had a dental in November, but I am convinced the raw feeding is going to pay huge dividends.
> 
> Anyway, in "short" lol -- I like traditional medicine for the most part. I like the holistic body manipulation and support or raw feeding.
> 
> I think I'll continue with both and not tell them about each other, unless of course my boys' safety is at stake.


I agree - I would love to find a vet that does acupuncture, but I don't want a vet that uses no pharmaceuticals etc. it would be nice to find one who knows when to use what.


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## Imgliniel (Sep 1, 2011)

xellil said:


> I agree - I would love to find a vet that does acupuncture, but I don't want a vet that uses no pharmaceuticals etc. it would be nice to find one who knows when to use what.


This is why I love love love my vet. Dr May is their large animal and equine vet but he is certified in animal acupuncture and chiro, he does it for dogs and cats and horses. In fact Megan my 24 year old arab mare just had her adjustmenrt and acupuncture session last month. It is kinda funny to watch a horse falling asleep in bliss with a bunch of needles stuck down her neck hooked up to an electrostimulator. But he is a traditional vet as well. And he is in his 50's maybe? Looks like the old school country vet. It is kinda hysterical. He will give you the old home remedy tell you why it may work, give you the modern high tech alternative, and then the homeopathic alternative or supporting treatments. And let you choose what you do. We manage Megans mild arthritis with acupuncture and chiro, adequan, and herbals, (as well as appropriate feeding and lifestyle for an animal that should be traveling up to 30 miles a day over plains and grazing non stop) and she is 24 and other then some stiff days going strong and acts like a much younger horse. Their small animal clinic is great. When I was talking to Dr Tessler about switching the kitties to raw she basically said how amazing and wonderful that was because alot of cats, especially one already adults are so hooked on kibble it is next to impossible to get them to change.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Imgliniel said:


> This is why I love love love my vet. Dr May is their large animal and equine vet but he is certified in animal acupuncture and chiro, he does it for dogs and cats and horses. In fact Megan my 24 year old arab mare just had her adjustmenrt and acupuncture session last month. It is kinda funny to watch a horse falling asleep in bliss with a bunch of needles stuck down her neck hooked up to an electrostimulator. But he is a traditional vet as well. And he is in his 50's maybe? Looks like the old school country vet. It is kinda hysterical. He will give you the old home remedy tell you why it may work, give you the modern high tech alternative, and then the homeopathic alternative or supporting treatments. And let you choose what you do. We manage Megans mild arthritis with acupuncture and chiro, adequan, and herbals, (as well as appropriate feeding and lifestyle for an animal that should be traveling up to 30 miles a day over plains and grazing non stop) and she is 24 and other then some stiff days going strong and acts like a much younger horse. Their small animal clinic is great. When I was talking to Dr Tessler about switching the kitties to raw she basically said how amazing and wonderful that was because alot of cats, especially one already adults are so hooked on kibble it is next to impossible to get them to change.


Sounds like you have the perfect vet. 

It's not that i can't go to several different vets - it's just that I can't get an expert opinion from a vet who is familiar with several different ways to treat my dogs, like yours is. 

I bet you don't live anywhere near me - if you did I'd want your vet's name!

And I found out in indy that acupuncture is not something I can stand and watch - it's an all day thing and they want me to leave her. I'm not willing to do that unless I am pretty sure it would be a benefit. Vets stress her out enough without having to be maybe in a cage or maybe not, but all alone with strangers all day.


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## Mondo (Dec 20, 2011)

Imgliniel said:


> This is why I love love love my vet. Dr May is their large animal and equine vet but he is certified in animal acupuncture and chiro, he does it for dogs and cats and horses. In fact Megan my 24 year old arab mare just had her adjustmenrt and acupuncture session last month. It is kinda funny to watch a horse falling asleep in bliss with a bunch of needles stuck down her neck hooked up to an electrostimulator. But he is a traditional vet as well. And he is in his 50's maybe? Looks like the old school country vet. It is kinda hysterical. He will give you the old home remedy tell you why it may work, give you the modern high tech alternative, and then the homeopathic alternative or supporting treatments. And let you choose what you do. We manage Megans mild arthritis with acupuncture and chiro, adequan, and herbals, (as well as appropriate feeding and lifestyle for an animal that should be traveling up to 30 miles a day over plains and grazing non stop) and she is 24 and other then some stiff days going strong and acts like a much younger horse. Their small animal clinic is great. When I was talking to Dr Tessler about switching the kitties to raw she basically said how amazing and wonderful that was because alot of cats, especially one already adults are so hooked on kibble it is next to impossible to get them to change.



I hope you know how fortunate you are. And if you don't -- I will tell you. lol. You are FORTUNATE!


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## Imgliniel (Sep 1, 2011)

Mondo said:


> I hope you know how fortunate you are. And if you don't -- I will tell you. lol. You are FORTUNATE!



Oh I know exactly how fortunate I am, believe me. I often have coffee waiting for my vet if I have an early morning appointement for the horses. He will also do basics for the dog at the house if he is coming for the horses instead of me taking her in.

I think the thing that sealed me never getting another vet ever, was when my horse Tequila died last year, I could not use my care credit for cremation (care credit refuses to cover after service places), and they paid the crematorium for me, and added it to my bill so I could pay them for it with the care credit.

And Xellil, I live in San Diego, I think you live in Texas? But if I ever hear of Dr May doing a seminar in TX I will let you know (he teaches accupunture and chiro to other vets, travels for continuing education and symposiums and stuff, etc)


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