# Chows and Akitas??...



## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

I am helping a friend move and she wanted me to look over the rental contract before she signed just to see if it looked okay. The one part that stood out to me is they require that any dog that is on the property to be under 75lb, also "no pure- or mix breed dog of pit bull, rottweiler, doberman, chow chow, shar pei, akita or mastiff ancestry may be allowed."

I can *kind of* understand the rotti/dobe/pitty one since there is a (wrong) public perception about them.. but chows and akitas? I didn't know they did, too.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

And Shar Peis. Sounds like someone just went through a breed list and picked some. If you pick akitas, why not Malamutes and German Shepherds? Any dog over 30 pounds?


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## chowder (Sep 7, 2008)

I had my homeowners insurance cancelled specifically for owning a Chow Chow. It is on the banned breed list for several insurance companies. I think because there was a spell in the late 70's and 80's where everyone was breeding and selling Chows and they became EXTREMELY popular for a very short time so of course there were a really bad batch of backyard breeder dogs. Now they (and Akita's) are not that common so they shouldn't be picked on but it's probably just leftover. 

And for some reason you seem to see everything at the humane society called a 'chow-mix' even if it looks like a lab now.


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## wags (Jan 31, 2009)

Gaurd dogs then are not allowed. Oh well maybe she can get out of her contract/agreement then! Thats too bad poor Gordon would be denied. He's 1/2 shar pei. with us hes a doll, but he has tendencys to be wheel agressive and gosh the "watch me" technique and the lamb 'treats ahhh its heaven with those techniques~just sayin'!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Jynical (Jun 22, 2011)

BSL sucks. 

That being said... Akitas, Chows and Shar Peis get a bad rap just like Rotties and Pits...et al...

I've been privileged enough to have a couple of akitas and chows in my sordid past, and I got a lot of flack for it - nevermind the fact that they were all wonderful, loving dogs. Just goes to show it's the human...not the dog.


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## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

When we had to try to reinsure our house again (our first company went bankrupt), one of the first questions asked was if we had a dog. The next question was 'what type'? All the breeds you mentioned, plus german shepherds, mals and huskies were not allowed. I asked what would happen if we had one of these dogs and they said they would decline to insure us. Made no difference if the dog had CGC or other obedience titles either. 
I was quite shocked and felt really sorry for people who already have one of these types of dogs, especially down here where insurance is so expensive and hard to find.


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## Jynical (Jun 22, 2011)

Completely maddening.


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## kevin bradley (Aug 9, 2009)

why is it that you would get strung up for making a comment/establishing a law against a certain group of PEOPLE...

Even if you had evidence to say that... Indonesian people committed more crimes on average--what if you banned them from your rental property?... could you imagine the outcry?

For some reason, discrimination is fine with our Dogs. 

BS.


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## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

Kevin, I like you. Are you married?? :eyebrows: :biggrin:


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

My homeowners would cancel me if they knew we have a Doberman. When we bought the house, they asked us about our dog - at the time, we had a dog of uncertain lineage and I told the agent I had no idea what he was. She put "mixed breed" on the documentation but told us if he were one of the banned breeds they would not insure us.


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

Akitas can be very dog aggressive. It's a trait of the breed. I have a friend who owns 4 Akitas and two of her dogs can't be allowed to be together because they will fight at every opportunity. She keeps dogs in the house, in the basement, and in the back yard. Whoever is where, she has to make sure that the two are not in the same place at the same time. It is quite a hassle for her to move dogs around.

Chows can be very protective of their family. This can sometimes lead to problems.

This doesn't mean that every Akita or Chow fits these profiles or even that most do but many do.


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## kevin bradley (Aug 9, 2009)

MollyWoppy said:


> Kevin, I like you. Are you married?? :eyebrows: :biggrin:



nah, no one can deal with me full time


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## chowder (Sep 7, 2008)

I love my insurance company now. They asked if we have dogs, but they don't care what kind breed they are! 

By the way.....I have a 'white' dog and 2 'brown' dogs (if anyone happens to ask me!).


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## chowder (Sep 7, 2008)

RawFedDogs said:


> Akitas can be very dog aggressive. It's a trait of the breed. I have a friend who owns 4 Akitas and two of her dogs can't be allowed to be together because they will fight at every opportunity. She keeps dogs in the house, in the basement, and in the back yard. Whoever is where, she has to make sure that the two are not in the same place at the same time. It is quite a hassle for her to move dogs around.
> 
> Chows can be very protective of their family. This can sometimes lead to problems.
> 
> This doesn't mean that every Akita or Chow fits these profiles or even that most do but many do.


We had to get our neighbors insurance to pay because his golden retriever came up on our porch and attacked both of our cats. It also attacked most of the people in the neighborhood. 

I've actually been threatened with bites by more goldens then chows. Probably because there are more goldens being brought in to vet offices then chows. It's a matter of sheer numbers and that's what insurance companies should work with....statistics and number of bites, not breed.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

chowder said:


> I love my insurance company now. They asked if we have dogs, but they don't care what kind breed they are!


What's your insurance company? I want that one.

I am actually a little concerned because we are selling our house and going to lease - I want to move back to Texas and don't want a house to pay for here when it's time to go. But who will lease to me with rebel? Most of the houses I see advertised say "no dogs" or "no pets" or "no dogs over 30 pounds." I hope we don't end up living in a hotel - I've never found a hotel that turned him away.


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

xellil said:


> I want to move back to Texas and don't want a house to pay for here when it's time to go.


You will be missing the best time in a hundred years to buy a house. House prices are rock bottom and interest rates are almost zero. Look around for a bargain and you can buy a house with payments cheaper than rent.



> But who will lease to me with rebel?


It will be very difficult to find someone like that. It often depends on the housing market in that area. If owners can keep their houses rented without pets then thats what they will do. If there is a great supply of vacancies, you can pretty much name what you want.


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5 (Feb 11, 2010)

Caty M said:


> I am helping a friend move and she wanted me to look over the rental contract before she signed just to see if it looked okay. The one part that stood out to me is they require that any dog that is on the property to be under 75lb, also "no pure- or mix breed dog of pit bull, rottweiler, doberman, chow chow, shar pei, akita or mastiff ancestry may be allowed."
> 
> I can *kind of* understand the rotti/dobe/pitty one since there is a (wrong) public perception about them.. but chows and akitas? I didn't know they did, too.


rotties i can understand for sure..they are known to be insurance hikers.
pitbulls are known to be aggressive biters.
dobies are just the face of evil(think of beethoven hahah)
chows are known biters
akitas im NOT SURPRISED AT ALL...they are some of the most aggressive dogs around.....id prob be mroe scared of them than rotties 

mstiffs, while good guard dogs shouldnt be banned, but then again they are the only breed on the list that i would place in my top 3 wanna own dogs.


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5 (Feb 11, 2010)

what????? lol


wags said:


> Gaurd dogs then are not allowed. Oh well maybe she can get out of her contract/agreement then! Thats too bad poor Gordon would be denied. He's 1/2 shar pei. with us hes a doll, but he has tendencys to be wheel agressive and gosh the "watch me" technique and the lamb 'treats ahhh its heaven with those techniques~just sayin'!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> rotties i can understand for sure..they are known to be insurance hikers.
> pitbulls are known to be aggressive biters.
> dobies are just the face of evil(think of beethoven hahah)
> chows are known biters
> ...


I don't really agree with the generalizations. The chows I have met were standoffish with people they didn't know but the only dogs I've been bit by are a pit/ridgeback mix and a German shorthaired pointer and a bichon mix.


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## chowder (Sep 7, 2008)

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> rotties i can understand for sure..they are known to be insurance hikers.
> pitbulls are known to be aggressive biters.
> dobies are just the face of evil(think of beethoven hahah)
> chows are known biters
> ...


Lets see......in 30 years I've never had a rottie, pitbull, dobie, chow, akita, or mastiff try to bite me. I HAVE had toy and miniature poodles (many), goldens, chihuahua's, cockers, springers, scotties, and cats try to bite me. 

I do think there were a few doberman's and rotties that wanted to lick me to death. :tongue:


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

I'd much rather get bitten by most any dog than get bitten by a cat that really wants to hurt you.


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## DoglovingSenior (Jun 26, 2011)

MW STOP flirting <LOL>. 
I hate to say this, but as a Rottie lover, I will. (1) I had a "good" acquaintance who had to shoot his Chow-it attacked him as he was feeding it, his children usually did that chore, he was a loved and well treated dog-I was shocked; (2) I had a friend whose Akita attacked her other dog after being raised with it-sent the other to the surgeon. Did this make me feel that either BREED is essentially dangerous-Nope. I respect the large breeds and know the damage that they can do-but condemn them, NEVER. There are some nutty dogs out there but an entire breed? 9 out of 10 times it is the owner. Be nice or I'll "sic" my Tibetan Spaniel on y'all!


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5 (Feb 11, 2010)

i wasn't saying i agree with the generalizations either. i do agree with the akita generalization though.....although it's nice to see people here have nice encounters with them...but let me ask you..were those akitas your dogs? akitas are very terrritorial and dog aggressive as billy has pointed out before.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

RawFedDogs said:


> You will be missing the best time in a hundred years to buy a house. House prices are rock bottom and interest rates are almost zero. Look around for a bargain and you can buy a house with payments cheaper than rent.
> 
> 
> 
> It will be very difficult to find someone like that. It often depends on the housing market in that area. If owners can keep their houses rented without pets then thats what they will do. If there is a great supply of vacancies, you can pretty much name what you want.


I do own a house in Texas but I can't seem to get back there. My job has been eliminated twice at this company and it's just been eliminated again - I find what I am most freaked about is having to let my house go back to the bank if I can't afford to pay for two houses. Well, that and not having any insurance. So I'm selling it - you know my motto - buy high and sell low!

When I leased my house in Texas, everyone had dogs! If I had excluded pets I wouldn't have had any takers. Of course, up here seems to be different. If people were having trouble leasing, they wouldn't be advertising for no pets.

Edited to add: No offense to cat people, but I would much rather have dogs than cats in my house. Cat hair gets in EVERYTHING, but mainly in the vents and AC system. It's a you-know-what to get rid of.


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## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

Cats are STRONG. I find it physically hard to bathe my 6 year old, 15lb male cat. He's skinny, but all muscle. He will FIGHT to get out of water (he's sweet as can be on dry land!!). He has claws also that he will use to dig in and push off from. He has also bit me once when I had to get him to the vet after he'd been kicked by the neighbour- his tail was broken. I don't blame him though cause he was in a lot of pain. It f****** HURT!!


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## minnieme (Jul 6, 2011)

Caty M said:


> Cats are STRONG. I find it physically hard to bathe my 6 year old, 15lb male cat. He's skinny, but all muscle. He will FIGHT to get out of water (he's sweet as can be on dry land!!). He has claws also that he will use to dig in and push off from. He has also bit me once when I had to get him to the vet after he'd been kicked by the neighbour- his tail was broken. I don't blame him though cause he was in a lot of pain. It f****** HURT!!


Did you kill your neighbor? O_O I'd be damn close.


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## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

I don't know which one it was... or I would have. I've had a kid dump beer on him before and a guy get mad that he crapped in their garden, but it could be anyone. He is an ex street cat and never adjusted well to being indoors- we moved after that.


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## malluver1005 (Nov 15, 2009)

chowder said:


> Lets see......in 30 years I've never had a rottie, pitbull, dobie, chow, akita, or mastiff try to bite me. I HAVE had toy and miniature poodles (many), goldens, chihuahua's, cockers, springers, scotties, and cats try to bite me.
> 
> I do think there were a few doberman's and rotties that wanted to lick me to death. :tongue:


It's actually quite the opposite with the dogs I've encountered at work...I know we've had a very aggressive rottie come in for x-rays that wouldn't even let us near her. Quite a few pits we've had to muzzle because we couldn't do any treatment at all. No aggressive dobies. A few chows and akitas tried to bite as well. German Sheperds are the absolute worst, at my work...most of them come in with the muzzle already on! Wait, I take it back, cats are the worst LOL!!


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## Maxy24 (Mar 5, 2011)

The world doesn't like dogs who are not "OMG I love everyone, all people, all dogs, I cuddle with kittens in my spare time" type dogs. Akitas, Dobies, Rotties, Chows, and Mastiffs are guardians, they don't love strangers. This does not mean they are aggressive towards them unless there is a reason to be or the dog was not socialized so doesn't know the difference between normal human behavior and suspicious/dangerous human behavior (which of course is completely the owners fault), OR because the dog is from a terrible breeder whose dogs are not stable. But suffice to say average joe thinks dogs are supposed to run up and be their friend on the first meeting, any dog who has to evaluate a stranger first is obviously dangerous. Now pit bulls were targeted because they were bred to kill other dogs, so of course they are awful viscous dogs who want to do nothing but kill. Yeah...
People also seem to hate dogs that kill animals, they see killing as killing. My mom was saying her uncle had a Husky that was a nasty dog. He killed a small dog, some chickens, and some other animals. To me that dog could have been one of the sweetest dogs in the world, the animals he's killed does not give me any evidence that he wasn't an awesome and friendly dog. But in the eyes of average joe, a killer is a killer (especially when it kills something we love, like other dogs).


Now many breeds go unnoticed by the public because they are not popular in the grand scheme of things. Very few people have heard of a Caucasian Ovcharka, so they don't get banned even though they have MUCH stronger guarding instincts than most Rottweilers which get villanized left and right. When any guardian or fighting breed gains popularity it's going to get in trouble because they don't love all people and dogs "like good dogs should". Do I think any of these breeds are more dangerous...well I think a pit bull is more likely to be dog aggressive than breeds not bred for fighting, but not more likely to be human aggressive. I think a poorly socialized guardian breed is more likely to become dangerous towards people than poorly socialized dogs of non-guardian breeds. I'm no sure where I stand on the issue of bad breeding, is it more likely to turn into aggression in a guardian breed compared to a non-guardian? I think perhaps it is, but I don't truly know. I think a well bred, properly raised guardian is just as safe as a well bred, properly raised Labrador (unless you're breaking into their house). 


When I was four my parents adopted a Shar Pei mix, we had him for ten years, he was awesome. Nowadays I doubt my family would ever consider a Shar-Pei because they are now considered dangerous and my parents listen to "what they hear". The fact that they would have wanted to adopt one shows me how much things have changed. I feel like Chows, Akitas, and Shar-Peis are going to become more and more hated, eventually to the point where Rotties, Dobies, and Pit Bulls are right now. Now that people have heard of them they are not liked because they are not stranger lovers.


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## chowder (Sep 7, 2008)

I don't think homeowners insurance should cover your dog anyway. YOU should be responsible for your dogs actions ! If a person had to be personally responsible for every action that his dog did, including any and all medical bills or laws broken should his dog bite someone or some other animal, then maybe people would think twice about what type of dogs they got, training those dogs, interacting with those dogs, etc. I chose to own chows so therefore I train them, have an entire chain link fenced yard, never let them out of my sight, socialize them, etc etc, so I have never had one of my chows bite a human or even have to be muzzled at the vets. 

It's time to make people step up to the plate and actually accept responsibility for their decisions, especially when an animal is involved. 

But then again, in my world there are unicorns sliding down rainbows ! :flypig:


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

That's what I thought - you should be able to sign a waiver releasing the insurance company from liability for dog bites;.


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## eternalstudent (Jul 22, 2010)

I don't think that dogs should be covered on the home insurance, or have any baring on the costs. We take out specific dog insurance which includes £3M in third party liability. This is the bit that changes from dog to dog, so yes a yorki might bight but it will be hard for it to do any significant damage but if a rotti bites then there is a high chance that it will do a lot of damage.

As for mastiff ancestory dogs. What the hell does that mean. Mastiffs being one of the oldest breeds of dogs, and there also seems to be a mastiff for every country (german, english, french etc.) and lots of dogs like the irish wolf hound are now mostly great dane so would they be banned (yes they would be banned by there weight any how).


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## catahoulamom (Sep 23, 2010)

I cannot tell y'all how lucky I am to have such a great landlord. He allows us to have three big dogs (+ a service dog, but he doesn't really have a choice in that). I think he was happy to have someone with large dogs living in his house - he knows no one would dare to break in.

Also, RC - those generalizations sucked, dude. I've met lots of akitas and never had a problem with them. However, the judge that passed the pit bull ban in Miami-Dade county 20 years ago did have an akita that bit everybody, go figure. If he was the kind of person to ban a whole breed, it's no wonder he had a badly behaved dog.


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## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

My landlord is great, too. There is no size and breed requirement but he said we would be responsible for all pet damages to the property (understandable!!). 

Before I got Bishop I was seriously considering getting a well bred APBT... until I walked a friend's and I saw reactions to them firsthand. People would cross the road, not let their dog play with them.... it was sad. I wanted a dog that there was no bad public stigma against. Now I just have to deal with comments like "WOW how do you deal with all that hair and shedding!!!"- for Bishop and "Feed your damn dog!"- Tess.

I have ZERO problem with a dog not being stranger-friendly/outgoing. Not all dogs have to have the happy go lucky Labrador personality. I just don't know why that would start a stigma. I'm sure many of the bites that happen are (eg, with a Chow) people going up to the dog, ignoring the body language that says the dog isn't comfortable with forced contact, and petting and smooshing its face anyway.


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

Caty M said:


> *My landlord is great, too. There is no size and breed requirement but he said we would be responsible for all pet damages to the property (understandable!!).
> *
> Before I got Bishop I was seriously considering getting a well bred APBT... until I walked a friend's and I saw reactions to them firsthand. People would cross the road, not let their dog play with them.... it was sad. I wanted a dog that there was no bad public stigma against. Now I just have to deal with comments like "WOW how do you deal with all that hair and shedding!!!"- for Bishop and "Feed your damn dog!"- Tess.
> 
> I have ZERO problem with a dog not being stranger-friendly/outgoing. Not all dogs have to have the happy go lucky Labrador personality. I just don't know why that would start a stigma. I'm sure many of the bites that happen are (eg, with a Chow) people going up to the dog, ignoring the body language that says the dog isn't comfortable with forced contact, and petting and smooshing its face anyway.


That is how ours is as well...its the stupid town we live in that has restrictions!


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