# Hi New to raw



## Erwynn (Oct 31, 2011)

Hi there 

I'm new to raw, still researching and formulating a plan before we go out buying anything. I'm a Veterinary Assistant student going into a tech program soon. I'm not new to the dog world or veterinary medicine. I've been working in the animal world for 15 years now and have studied animals, mainly dogs, for almost 18 years now. I went to CSU originally for DVM, then moved to take zookeeping technology, and now I'm going for vet tech.

Right now we're feeding our dogs Kirklands Chicken and Veggies food. It's a good food, but I'm tired of paying so much for dog food that is full of preservatives and keeps my girls hungry still. I was feeding Lamb, but then switched to Grain Free Salmon when we got Laila because of her allergies, but now we're back on Chicken and Veggies. I don't want to pay for dog food anymore, period. Sick of it, so expensive, and although convenient, I've yet to see my dogs not be hungry. I feed them each 2.5 cups a day, split up AM and PM.

Our dogs are both in the 50 lb range. 

Inga is a Doberman mix and Laila is a Pitty. Inga is 5 yrs old and Laila is only 1 years old. We've adopted them both within the last 6 months. We're Inga's 5th, and last home and we've been working with her a lot. Both girls are very sweet and amazing with our young kids.

Here are some pics of the girls. First one is Inga, she's a ham. Then the girls together. And then last pic is of Laila.





















Our girls are ALWAYS hungry and scrounging and pent up. They exercise a lot everyday in the backyard. I don't walk them due to rabid dogs wandering our area, we're in the country. Inga is very healthy and hasn't really had any health issues. Laila on the other hand has a slew of allergies and it makes her life misery and woe. A life on steroids for allergies is not the life I want for her, as happened with my last dog, a 12 yr old keeshond with horrid allergies. Back then I was not the one in charge of his life (parents dog) but I tried what I could and I was lucky enough to get my folks to switch him onto holistic dog food.

Anyways, sorry I get off track easily lol, I want to make the RAW switch!! Specifically the Prey Model Raw diet. I like the makeup of this diet, and how it helps all aspects of what your dog needs and desires. 

But as any noob, I have some questions that make me feel dumb, but I'll ask anyways:

1. In regards to feeding your dogs, how do you go about literally doing it? 
On the floor, in a kennel, outside? How do you make sure your house is safe from the raw meats? Bleach the floor after each meal? I know it's the simplest thing prolly, but I like to plan ahead, and with small children, 4 and 6, I need to make sure prevention is my motto in this case. Safety first ya know? Trying to get past the whole "it's oogy raw meat on my floor, in their bowl" etc.. LOL.

2. I'm planning on buying raw meat when we can, obtaining free meat on occasion if it's safe and all, but trying to figure out how much to feed my girls so I can store it according to meals and wanted to store it appropriately measured out. If I did my calculations correctly, 2% of their weight is 1 lb of raw meat. Is that a day? Or every meal? Both girls are their ideal weight. They look perfect, they have good muscle tone and are well proportioned. 

3. I know I'm supposed to be starting with chicken backs, so my plan is to do that, and then make our way to chicken quarters and such in a couple weeks. I have never seen chicken backs though, and wondering if I can't get access to them, can't find them, is it ok to start on chicken quarters?

4. I know I read that the PMR diet pretty much covers all of a dog's nutritional needs. But is there any need for supplements or vitamins?

5. Has anyone tried this with their cats? I'm curious now about that too. I have a 9 yr old cat that is 8 lbs, she's always been small and lean, and a 5 yr old cat we just adopted that is a big fatty at 25 lbs omg.

6. My husband is worried this is going to cost more than dog food, which we're trying to avoid. You know, the economy these days and all, I can't find work right now so we have one income but I don't want the dogs' diet and health to suffer due to that. Any tips/ideas on being economical?

I think that's all my noob questions, I know most everything I need is on these forums, or other websites, so I can find things on my own, just trying to get a feel for things though and make some new raw food doggy friends so I have that community there when I need/want it. I have been perusing the forums for a while now and everyone is so nice and helpful, and I haven't really seen any trolls on here 

**My Plan**
So my plan right now, is to switch the girls over in a couple days. They have a tiny bit of kibble left, like seriously a cup or so. So I'm feeding the rest of that out tonight, then I'm going to fast them for tomorrow, and then start them on their raw diet starting Wednesday morning with chicken backs hopefully if I can find them. The yard is very large, and I doubt I can keep an eye on their poops with the size of it, not to mention it's a weed jungle, so I don't even go back there. They have access to fresh water n the kitchen, so I can keep an eye on their water intake.


Thanks  I look forward to vast knowledge base from everyone


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Welcome! I love Dobermans. Best dogs in the world. 

and great you are going raw - here's the place you need to start:
How to Get Started | Prey Model Raw

Feed them anywhere. I do outside, inside, people do it in cages. Wherever you like. Don't do anything you wouldn't do if you cut up a chicken. I never bleach - heck, I barely rinse my hands off these days. I just wipe stuff down now and then, and once a week or so go over my cutting board with Comet. I don't feed on the bare floor because it's cold, but if I did I'd just wipe the dog slobber up from them licking up the juice.

The web site should get you started. And lots of people feed their cats raw - I think there's a link on that site also for cats. And several threads here about it.


Not to nag you on your first post, but your dogs really need to get out of the yard. Isn't there a town close by with a park - or a town period? You could just take them for a walk in town. 

Or get them into obedience classes, or agility, etc.


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## shellbell (Sep 24, 2011)

Hi and welcome! I just started feeding mine raw six weeks ago, and as a fellow "newbie", here is how I would answer your questions:

1) I feed mine in the crate when I give them big chunks of things to chew on. Tux is a slow eater, so he can take his time in there. Cabo is a gulper, and he is less likely to gulp if he doesn't feel threatened that someone else is going to take his food, the crate provides this safety feeling for him. If I am giving boneless or something easily eaten, I either hand it right to them to gulp down or feed them in a bowl. To clean, I use a 50/50 water and white vinegar solution. I spray the crate maybe once a month, and their bowls the same way. I have Lysol wipes I use on the counter tops. I would maybe be more particular if I had young kids in the house, but as of right now, I'm not super particular about it.

2) Mine each weigh about 50 lbs. I feed them each a bit over 1lb a day, and I divide it into two meals. They are used to eating twice a day so I have kept that up. If I had a nice big chunk of something that weighed a pound or more though, I would just feed them that as one meal for the day. 

3) I can't find chicken backs anywhere by me, so I just used chicken quarters and this worked out fine for the first two weeks. Tux had a bit of diarrhea the first week, so I cut the skin and fat off the chicken quarters until he could handle it better.

4) I give zero supplements. I started feeding them each one sardine every other day right from the beginning, just b/c I wanted to keep their coats shiny.

5) No experience with cats, but from what I read, they can be a bit harder to transition as they tend to be picky eaters. And they HAVE to eat every day, you can't use the tough love approach with them where they might skip a meal until they decide to eat raw.

6) For being economical...to be honest, it is so far costing me a bit more to feed raw. I don't have any access to a co-op or good cheap supplier. But you should start googling and looking in your area, you might luck out. I am relying on grocery store weekly ads and My Pet Carnivore. Also it is hunting season, and luckily my family hunts deer so I should score some venison...already have some they were getting rid of from last year. I do feel though that at least for me, I am spending more in the beginning, but as I get to knowing more what I am doing and having more things that my dogs are able to eat, I am spending less.

Good luck! The first two weeks were kind of stressful for me, but I am loving it!


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## Erwynn (Oct 31, 2011)

Cool thanks for the great advice so far 



xellil said:


> Not to nag you on your first post, but your dogs really need to get out of the yard. Isn't there a town close by with a park - or a town period? You could just take them for a walk in town.
> 
> Or get them into obedience classes, or agility, etc.


Not nagging, I feel the same way, we're looking into moving very soon just having a hard time finding a rental with a doberman and a pitbull >.< I don't like where we live, and we're not happy feeling so isolated and trapped in our own home. We're going to be moving back into town so we have more access to trails and parks. Out here where we are there is no acess to anything like that unfortunately.


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## Erwynn (Oct 31, 2011)

Oh yea, here's another totally random question...

I DO NOT feed table/human food at all. But I do have kids, who occasionally drop food on the floor that the dogs scoop up before I can see it. If a dog is on a raw diet, and might snag a cheerio here and there, is it completely detrimental to their health/diet? Or is it not a big deal?


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## shellbell (Sep 24, 2011)

Erwynn said:


> Oh yea, here's another totally random question...
> 
> I DO NOT feed table/human food at all. But I do have kids, who occasionally drop food on the floor that the dogs scoop up before I can see it. If a dog is on a raw diet, and might snag a cheerio here and there, is it completely detrimental to their health/diet? Or is it not a big deal?


Mine still get regular dog biscuit type treats once a day. As long as all they are getting is a few “accidental” things from the kids, I wouldn’t worry about it too much…..Tux found some stray cheerios at my grandma’s house over the weekend and ate them and was fine….


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

My dad lives with us and I can't stop him from giving the dogs vanilla wafers and crackers so I just live with it.

How many rabid animals are out there? I lived in the middle of nowhere for many years and we shot some animals that we thought were rabid, but I made sure the dogs all had rabies shots. We never had a fenced yard.


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

1. In regards to feeding your dogs, how do you go about literally doing it? 
On the floor, in a kennel, outside? How do you make sure your house is safe from the raw meats? Bleach the floor after each meal? I know it's the simplest thing prolly, but I like to plan ahead, and with small children, 4 and 6, I need to make sure prevention is my motto in this case. Safety first ya know? Trying to get past the whole "it's oogy raw meat on my floor, in their bowl" etc.. LOL.We have 7 dogs, most eat outside or in their crates.

2. I'm planning on buying raw meat when we can, obtaining free meat on occasion if it's safe and all, but trying to figure out how much to feed my girls so I can store it according to meals and wanted to store it appropriately measured out. If I did my calculations correctly, 2% of their weight is 1 lb of raw meat. Is that a day? Or every meal? Both girls are their ideal weight. They look perfect, they have good muscle tone and are well proportioned. 
That would be per day although when starting I would feed just a bit less to make sure they don't have any tummy issues you can always work up tot he pound in a couplpe of days if they are doing well.


3. I know I'm supposed to be starting with chicken backs, so my plan is to do that, and then make our way to chicken quarters and such in a couple weeks. I have never seen chicken backs though, and wondering if I can't get access to them, can't find them, is it ok to start on chicken quarters?Chicken quarters are fine although I would proabbly take the skin off for the first few days and then start leaving more and more skin on as long as their stools are solid. You could also buy whole chicken and butcher it into serving size pieces.

4. I know I read that the PMR diet pretty much covers all of a dog's nutritional needs. But is there any need for supplements or vitamins?No need - my dogs get coconut oil and many here get fish oil as getting omega three may be difficult if your dog does not get enough fish or grass fed meats. Mine do not like fish so I supplement - but that would be it and I would not worry until I had worked through all the other proteins

5. Has anyone tried this with their cats? I'm curious now about that too. I have a 9 yr old cat that is 8 lbs, she's always been small and lean, and a 5 yr old cat we just adopted that is a big fatty at 25 lbs omg. I don't have cats but some on here do and I am sure they will offer some good advice soon

6. My husband is worried this is going to cost more than dog food, which we're trying to avoid. You know, the economy these days and all, I can't find work right now so we have one income but I don't want the dogs' diet and health to suffer due to that. Any tips/ideas on being economical? For me the cost is the same or less depending on how much free meat I get. [I used to spend $150.00 a month on mid grade kibble so I keep my raw mwat bill to that or less. Last month paid $160.00 and this month will cost about $50.00 so I save a ton. You want to locate a co-op, meat processor that will sell to individuals, check game meat processors and specialty meat processors for organ, trim and human undesireable meat. Talk to friends who hunt, and finally take advantage of seasonal sales. Thanksgiving is coming up and we will probably buy about 10 turkeys and butcher them into serving size pieces at about .30 per poiund. Can't beat that. Summer they get tons of ribs and some ground beef as that is what is on sales. Cash n Carry and Costco also often ahve great prices.

The biggest thing is go slow. Some dogs are more sensitive to dietary changes and some fly right through, Take your time and enjoy watching your dogs eat how they should. Do not rush organs. If your dogs are gulpers you might try feeding semi frozen or hard frozen so they really have to learn to chew. Remember dogs just want to chomp something enough to swallow and that's okay.
Have fun witht he switch and keep up postedon how things are going.


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## BoxerPaws (Jul 19, 2011)

*1. In regards to feeding your dogs, how do you go about literally doing it?* 
Since we switched Zoey to raw over the summer, we've been feeding her outside. It makes for zero need for clean-up, and she usually goes and poops immediately after eating, so she's already out there! Now that it's getting colder out, I don't want to make her stand/lie out there while she's working at stuff. I fed her breakfast this morning inside on a towel (and then moved the towel/her to her crate, since she was still working on her rib when I had to leave for work!). I've fed her straight off the linoleum before, too; I just wipe up with a vinegar/water solution or a natural antibacterial wipe. 

*2. I'm planning on buying raw meat when we can, obtaining free meat on occasion if it's safe and all, but trying to figure out how much to feed my girls so I can store it according to meals and wanted to store it appropriately measured out. If I did my calculations correctly, 2% of their weight is 1 lb of raw meat.* 
Yes, the percentage you end up feeding them is fed per day, NOT per meal. If they prefer eating multiple meals rather than 1 large meal, then give them, for example, half of their 1 lb/day at breakfast (8 oz) and the other half at dinner (the other 8 oz). 

*3. I know I'm supposed to be starting with chicken backs, so my plan is to do that, and then make our way to chicken quarters and such in a couple weeks. I have never seen chicken backs though, and wondering if I can't get access to them, can't find them, is it ok to start on chicken quarters?*
Lots of people on here started with chicken quarters. I'm able to find chicken backs (they's SUPER cheap!), so we still pick them up to keep on hand as extra bony "firm-up" meals, lol. Zoey ate nothing but chicken backs for her first week, then started getting drumsticks or thighs. Everything was trimmed of all possible skin/fat at first, too, to make it as easy as possible on her digestion. We're a solid 3 months in, and now I leave on all the skin/fat and she's fine.

*4. I know I read that the PMR diet pretty much covers all of a dog's nutritional needs. But is there any need for supplements or vitamins?*
Some forum members supplement with fish oil for the Omega-3 benefits. Most commercially raised meats are lower in those fatty acids than pasture/grass-fed meats, so adding the supplement gives an added nutrient, one that's really fantastic for coats. I haven't been giving any yet, because we're still transitioning with Zoey (we're just now introducing little bits of organs every few meals), but I might add it in down the road.

*5. Has anyone tried this with their cats?* 
I haven't, but I want to. I have a feeling one of my cats would be all over it in a heartbeat. I think the other one would totally hold out though. She's got a sensitive digestive system and is very picky about food/flavors she likes. So I haven't tried yet.

*6. My husband is worried this is going to cost more than dog food, which we're trying to avoid. You know, the economy these days and all, I can't find work right now so we have one income but I don't want the dogs' diet and health to suffer due to that. Any tips/ideas on being economical?*
No tips for you. We are spending more than we would have been (I think, I can't be sure, since we only fed her kibble for the first month we had her) on the kibble we were feeding. It wasn't one of the super-amazing grain-free varieties, but it scored extremely well. We're probably easily spending around $60/month on raw...sometimes it's more, sometime's it's less; it just depends on what we find for a decent price and end up getting. We're not using a co-op at all, because we've only got our attached fridge freezer, and really don't have any space for placing bulk orders (and getting the cheaper prices for ordering in bulk). We keep an eye out for sales at the grocery store, we use a local meat market, and we've gone to a local Asian market once; we really need to get over there again.

Welcome to the forum! Your dogs are beautiful!


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

Everyone has given you great advice on feeding dogs, but cats are somewhat differant. I just switched a cat over by using kibble and raw, and slowly weaning off the kibble. I knew when he was eating the raw and leaving the kibble it was time. You can't use the tough love approach on cats, because they don't need to go without eating for a day or more at a time. Cats can't tolerate that. Otherwise, I went about it the same way pretty much. I haven't been quite so careful about the protein transitions because in general cats can handle it better. I think the cat raw site is called rawfedcats.com or something very similar. It will be a great help. I know it was for me. Anyway, welcome and hope you hang around!


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

i spend more money on raw. but my vet bills have dropped more than 90% so I am literally saving thousands of dollars.

Your dogs are younger - they haven't time time to develop major issues yet. But if you switch to raw, you will immediately save on teeth cleaning and you can probably count on not dealing with alot of the chronic piddly stuff that dry food causes and yet racks up the vet bills, like ear infections, stomach upset, allergies etc.

And there have been no scientific studies that I know of, but many people believe that even if raw doesn't prolong your dog's life (and it might) it will make end-of-life diseases and suffering much shorter.

I think our dogs get alot of stuff wrong with them that we never relate to their food - allergies being one. In one of my dog's case, she lost most of her teeth and developed mitral valve disease and I think both were directly related to her diet. My other dog - constant ear infections. On and on.


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## monkeys23 (Dec 8, 2010)

1. I chuck it in their crate or feed them on their seperate tie-out's at my parent's.

2. One of mine eats about 1.5% of her body weight and the other eats just about 2% of her body weight. They are 50 and 60lbs respectively and eat about 0.75lb and 1.25lb respectively each day. I feed two meals a day, morning and night.

3. I started with quarters, it went fine. :smile: 

4. I do not supplement at all. Some do fish oil and vitamin E. I feel mine get enough game meat and homegrown eggs (I don't feed fish because they don't like it) to cover the essential omega-3's.

5. I have not tried it with my cat, but I sure would try if she weren't staying at my mom's instead of with me.

6. It probably will cost more than Kirkland Signature. But you have to make a change with having an allergy dog. Its a LOT cheaper than what I was doing before. My dogs could not handle grain, so they were eating Evo and then Acana grain free, then The Honest Kitchen (only the grain free ones).... so I've gone from spending $120+ each month to down and average of around $60/month. I will admit I cheat a little.... my family raises natural beef and my brother hunts, so most of their boneless meals and all their organ meat is free to me. Its well worth the money though. It would save you a lot in allergy related vet bills! If you get a freezer and buy in bulk you can definitely do it in an economical fashion.



Erwynn said:


> But as any noob, I have some questions that make me feel dumb, but I'll ask anyways:
> 
> 1. In regards to feeding your dogs, how do you go about literally doing it?
> On the floor, in a kennel, outside? How do you make sure your house is safe from the raw meats? Bleach the floor after each meal? I know it's the simplest thing prolly, but I like to plan ahead, and with small children, 4 and 6, I need to make sure prevention is my motto in this case. Safety first ya know? Trying to get past the whole "it's oogy raw meat on my floor, in their bowl" etc.. LOL.
> ...


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## rory (Oct 4, 2011)

If I had kids that young I would be really careful about cleaning up. I'd feed in the crate, and wipe down the dogs' face and paws with a baby wipe after they eat (maybe even use some petzlife tooth spray or gel, which has alcohol in it, after each meal). I would also wipe down the crate with a diluted bleach solution after every meal. I am fine taking risks when it comes to my own contact with salmonella, e-coli, etc. but children are inherently immunocompromised, their immune systems are just not as developed as adults, and so they are at greater risk of infection and complications. This might seem extreme to some of the long-time raw feeders on this board, but with young children, I just don't think it is worth the risk.


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## monkeys23 (Dec 8, 2010)

You know... I've been around raw meaty bones, half rotted elk legs (outside dog!), and helped butcher grouse/deer/elk/lamb/trout/salmon my whole life.... I didn't get sick hardly at all as a child and still hardly do. Ditto for my little bro who dressed out and cooked his own kills (birds, squirrels, etc. ) when he was killing everything around our house with his pellet gun and my mom told him he had to eat what he killed. Kids aren't made of glass. I think theres a reason childhood allergies, etc. have gone up with all sterlization/antibacterial paranoia craziness and processed foodstuffs for kids like chicken nuggets and pedialyte. Ain't gonna develop immunities if they are never exposed to anything. Isn't that the point of essential vaccines! If you use basic food safety you'll be fine. :wink:


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## rory (Oct 4, 2011)

monkeys23 said:


> You know... I've been around raw meaty bones, half rotted elk legs (outside dog!), and helped butcher grouse/deer/elk/lamb/trout/salmon my whole life.... I didn't get sick hardly at all as a child and still hardly do. Ditto for my little bro who dressed out and cooked his own kills (birds, squirrels, etc. ) when he was killing everything around our house with his pellet gun and my mom told him he had to eat what he killed. Kids aren't made of glass. I think theres a reason childhood allergies, etc. have gone up with all sterlization/antibacterial paranoia craziness and processed foodstuffs for kids like chicken nuggets and pedialyte. Ain't gonna develop immunities if they are never exposed to anything. Isn't that the point of essential vaccines! If you use basic food safety you'll be fine. :wink:


You are completely right. But I assume that her children have not been raised in that type of environment, and so caution is needed especially at first. Unless her kids have been dressing their own birds or been around when meat was being butchered, they don't have the type of immune systems you and your brother had when you were children. And bombarding their systems won't help - exposure has to be gradual to develop a protective effect. Wiping down surfaces with a diluted bleach solution is considered basic food safety - and personally, if your dog is into licking your children's faces, I'd wipe those down too.


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## pogo (Aug 28, 2011)

I'm probably repeating alot what has been said but anyway!


1. In regards to feeding your dogs, how do you go about literally doing it? 
On the floor, in a kennel, outside? How do you make sure your house is safe from the raw meats? Bleach the floor after each meal? I know it's the simplest thing prolly, but I like to plan ahead, and with small children, 4 and 6, I need to make sure prevention is my motto in this case. Safety first ya know? Trying to get past the whole "it's oogy raw meat on my floor, in their bowl" etc.. LOL.
I literally feed them on the floor either in the back room if it's a small meal, or if it's going to take a few minutes then i put there food on the floor in the front room. If it's a bit messy i put a towel down first but when the pair of the have done there is never anything left.

2. I'm planning on buying raw meat when we can, obtaining free meat on occasion if it's safe and all, but trying to figure out how much to feed my girls so I can store it according to meals and wanted to store it appropriately measured out. If I did my calculations correctly, 2% of their weight is 1 lb of raw meat. Is that a day? Or every meal? Both girls are their ideal weight. They look perfect, they have good muscle tone and are well proportioned. 
It's 2% of the ideal adult weight per day either in one meal or split over a couple of meals

3. I know I'm supposed to be starting with chicken backs, so my plan is to do that, and then make our way to chicken quarters and such in a couple weeks. I have never seen chicken backs though, and wondering if I can't get access to them, can't find them, is it ok to start on chicken quarters?
Yes it's fine just trim any skin and extra fat of to being with

4. I know I read that the PMR diet pretty much covers all of a dog's nutritional needs. But is there any need for supplements or vitamins?
The only supplements i give per say is eggs each week and apple cider vinegar, and then garlic cloves but thats more for fleas 

5. Has anyone tried this with their cats? I'm curious now about that too. I have a 9 yr old cat that is 8 lbs, she's always been small and lean, and a 5 yr old cat we just adopted that is a big fatty at 25 lbs omg.
I don't keep cats but i know it can be harder to switch a cat over

6. My husband is worried this is going to cost more than dog food, which we're trying to avoid. You know, the economy these days and all, I can't find work right now so we have one income but I don't want the dogs' diet and health to suffer due to that. Any tips/ideas on being economical?
Well I have never fed kibble these are my first dogs and they went straight onto raw, and it works out about £15 a month to feed two largeish dogs a full raw diet which i think works out at $24 a month for 2 dogs


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## Erwynn (Oct 31, 2011)

You guys have had some amazing insight and advice for me thanks 

I'm a little concerned about the costs of feeding raw. I was thinking it'd be less than kibble, but it's the same price it seems, but you know what I'd rather they be eating raw anyways, so we'll just have to hope it balances out. Hoping we can afford it, it's a tight month. I'm finishing up an externship, and I was hoping to get hired on and was kind of led on that way. I found out saturday I wasn't going to be hired due to their lack of positions, so now I'm scrambling trying to figure out how to get work.

I agree about the whole kids and germs thing is way overblown in social media, and nowadays kids are treated a lot more delicately than when I was little. My kids get sick a lot, but a lot of that we think is the house we're living in. To be safe I think I'll feed the dogs separated in the kitchen and then I'll just spray down the floor and all when they're done. Is a 50/50 of water and vinegar (white i'm assuming) as efficient as bleach? I'm not a spaz about germs, I'm used to cleaning as we have reptiles, monitors and a snake, so it doesn't bug me, it's just I'm trying to be educated about it.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Erwynn said:


> Hi there I'm new to raw


Hello and welcome!! Jon and I just moved from Denver a few months ago...both of us are CO natives! You're in for a good start to raw seeing as there is a great local raw feeding co op to join! As well as a wonderful wholesale meat distributor to order meat from for less than $1 per pound on the majority of things. 

Co op (join it!!!): 

ColoradoCARNIVORES : ColoradoCARNIVORES

Harvest Meats: 

When you call to make an order, say that you're with the "Colorado meat and bone feeders" and would like to make an order. They are super nice, and will usually transfer to someone who's well versed in what you'd usually get. You can request a "menu" of updated prices (which fluctuate weekly) and whats available. They only accept cash...so make sure you ask for a rough estimate on how much your bill will be! Also, order early in the week as they tend to run out of things by wednesday or later. Monday is the best day to order. Pick up time is 3pm-ish during the week. Things we would order from them: 

Chicken quaters and backs, turkey wings and necks, pork riblets, beef heart, pork liver and kidneys, pork shoulder roasts, whole tilapia, and whatever else they had on special. GREAT source for meat! 

Harvest Meat Company, Inc » Denver, Colorado



> In regards to feeding your dogs, how do you go about literally doing it?
> On the floor, in a kennel, outside? How do you make sure your house is safe from the raw meats? Bleach the floor after each meal? I know it's the simplest thing prolly, but I like to plan ahead, and with small children, 4 and 6, I need to make sure prevention is my motto in this case. Safety first ya know? Trying to get past the whole "it's oogy raw meat on my floor, in their bowl" etc.. LOL.


I feed my girls outside 99% of the time. Unless its down pouring they eat outside. I thaw meat out at room temp for 24 hours in secure containers. Then hand out meat to each dog. They go off and eat it where ever they want in the yard. Saves on clean up TONS!!! 

When we do feed inside, we clean up with non toxic and non harsh cleaners like vinegar and simple green. Bleach is nasty stuff....nearly as bad as the bacteria you're trying to kill! I helped my aunt switch her two dogs to raw over two years ago...she has 4 small kids and none of them have gotten sick from them feeding raw. I think its just a matter of using common sense and practical hygiene. Like I said, feed outside for the most part! 



> 2. I'm planning on buying raw meat when we can, obtaining free meat on occasion if it's safe and all, but trying to figure out how much to feed my girls so I can store it according to meals and wanted to store it appropriately measured out. If I did my calculations correctly, 2% of their weight is 1 lb of raw meat. Is that a day? Or every meal? Both girls are their ideal weight. They look perfect, they have good muscle tone and are well proportioned.


The percentage you get from figuring out what they need is per day, so that 1 pound of meat should be fed per day in as many meals as you'd like. BUT I suggest feeding as few meals per day...one meal for most dogs is ideal. The reason being, the bigger the raw meaty bone (RMB) you can feed the better. So if you can only give 1 pound per day, I'd feed a 1 pound meal so that they can get the full benefit from chewing on a larger RMB. 



> 3. I know I'm supposed to be starting with chicken backs, so my plan is to do that, and then make our way to chicken quarters and such in a couple weeks. I have never seen chicken backs though, and wondering if I can't get access to them, can't find them, is it ok to start on chicken quarters?


You can order chicken backs from the meat supplier listed above. They come in 40 pound cases. They come frozen solid, and have to be thawed out and re packaged into meals or days...however you want to do it. I'd suggest thawing a case out and portioning it out into 2-3 days worth of food in a container or plastic bag. 



> 4. I know I read that the PMR diet pretty much covers all of a dog's nutritional needs. But is there any need for supplements or vitamins?


I suggest supplementing with an omega 3 fatty acid if you feed primarily factory farmed meats (from the supplier above). If you feed a lot of grass fed red meats in your rotation, no supplements are needed. 



> 5. Has anyone tried this with their cats? I'm curious now about that too. I have a 9 yr old cat that is 8 lbs, she's always been small and lean, and a 5 yr old cat we just adopted that is a big fatty at 25 lbs omg.


Yes, cats are obligate carnivores and thus need a PMR diet. Why do you think that so many cats die of kidney disease? 



> 6. My husband is worried this is going to cost more than dog food, which we're trying to avoid. You know, the economy these days and all, I can't find work right now so we have one income but I don't want the dogs' diet and health to suffer due to that. Any tips/ideas on being economical?



If you order your meat from the supplier above and the co op, your cost per pound should be $1 per pound or less. We fed 6 large dogs from this company for super cheap...far less than it would to feed them a kibble worth feeding! I have lots of raw feeding friends in Denver who would be happy to go in on orders with you to make things helpful! Heck...we couldn't afford to feed our dogs kibble in Denver! 



> I think that's all my noob questions, I know most everything I need is on these forums, or other websites, so I can find things on my own, just trying to get a feel for things though and make some new raw food doggy friends so I have that community there when I need/want it. I have been perusing the forums for a while now and everyone is so nice and helpful, and I haven't really seen any trolls on here
> 
> **My Plan**
> So my plan right now, is to switch the girls over in a couple days. They have a tiny bit of kibble left, like seriously a cup or so. So I'm feeding the rest of that out tonight, then I'm going to fast them for tomorrow, and then start them on their raw diet starting Wednesday morning with chicken backs hopefully if I can find them. The yard is very large, and I doubt I can keep an eye on their poops with the size of it, not to mention it's a weed jungle, so I don't even go back there. They have access to fresh water n the kitchen, so I can keep an eye on their water intake.
> ...


Sounds like a fantastic plan! Remember to take things slow. If they need 1 pound per day I suggest feeding half that on the first day or two. Slow and steady wins the race. Keep us posted on their progress!!!


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## Erwynn (Oct 31, 2011)

Thanks everyone. Today is our fasting day, so the girls are antsy and driving me bonkers. Feeeeeed Meeeeee >.< They keep staring at me LOL. Tomorrow we're starting chicken backs/quarters, depending on what my husband finds at the store on his way home.


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## Erwynn (Oct 31, 2011)

@DaneMama

Thanks for all the great info on the co-op and the meat company. We'll most likely be buying from the store this month, and then moving onto bigger orders next month possibly.


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## BoxerPaws (Jul 19, 2011)

Tell your husband not to get any chicken with more than ~ 80 mg of sodium per serving!! The pups handle it much better without a bunch of added salt in their systems.


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## Erwynn (Oct 31, 2011)

BoxerPaws said:


> Tell your husband not to get any chicken with more than ~ 80 mg of sodium per serving!! The pups handle it much better without a bunch of added salt in their systems.


Great ty


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## KittyKat (Feb 11, 2011)

DaneMama said:


> Yes, cats are obligate carnivores and thus need a PMR diet. Why do you think that so many cats die of kidney disease?


THIS. That said my cats are still on kibble... come december after exams i'm going to try again. My female cat will turn her nose up at raw at every turn... she is so picky about everything. I even tried just adding chicken juice to some of her canned food and she wouldn't eat it. My male cat rejects stuff at random. One day he is pulling bits of meat off the dogs food, the next he backs away like its going to kill him.

/sigh

Wish they were like Piper. "MEAT? YOU WANT ME TO HAVE MEAT? Well... if you insi- OM NOM NOM NOM"


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## Unosmom (May 3, 2009)

I dont mean to be negative, but it'll probably cost you a lot more if you think kirkland is expensive. You can cut costs by getting older/freezer burned meat from craigslist/freecycle, buying wholesale or asking friends if they have any old meat to get rid of. One thing to keep in mind that is older meat may not be as nutritious, so if you plan on feeding it, feed it along with fresh stuff to make up for the loss of nutrients. I got a bunch of free meat off craigslist, but ended up chucking anything older then 3 years because it was so dried out. 
I spend about $40 a month on store bought raw for a 60 lb dog and the rest come from CL/Freecycle.


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

Unosmom said:


> I dont mean to be negative, but it'll probably cost you a lot more if you think kirkland is expensive. You can cut costs by getting older/freezer burned meat from craigslist/freecycle, buying wholesale or asking friends if they have any old meat to get rid of. One thing to keep in mind that is older meat may not be as nutritious, so if you plan on feeding it, feed it along with fresh stuff to make up for the loss of nutrients. I got a bunch of free meat off craigslist, but ended up chucking anything older then 3 years because it was so dried out.
> I spend about $40 a month on store bought raw for a 60 lb dog and the rest come from CL/Freecycle.


I was going to mention the same thing about cost....

But yes, craigslist is AMAZING way to get cheep/free food....and like Natalie said, she and Jon know a TON of places to buy around there!!:biggrin:


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## cprcheetah (Jul 14, 2010)

Welcome! There are a few of us here whom work at Veterinary Clinics! I am a receptionist/tech at one.

1. In regards to feeding your dogs, how do you go about literally doing it? 
On the floor, in a kennel, outside? How do you make sure your house is safe from the raw meats? Bleach the floor after each meal? I know it's the simplest thing prolly, but I like to plan ahead, and with small children, 4 and 6, I need to make sure prevention is my motto in this case. Safety first ya know? Trying to get past the whole "it's oogy raw meat on my floor, in their bowl" etc.. LOL.

*I feed mine either on the floor or in their kennel, I'm not a super clean freak and have had NO issues with anyone getting sick because of raw....both human and pets. I feed on a towel and then reuse the next day on the other side then wash in regular wash.*

2. I'm planning on buying raw meat when we can, obtaining free meat on occasion if it's safe and all, but trying to figure out how much to feed my girls so I can store it according to meals and wanted to store it appropriately measured out. If I did my calculations correctly, 2% of their weight is 1 lb of raw meat. Is that a day? Or every meal? Both girls are their ideal weight. They look perfect, they have good muscle tone and are well proportioned. 

*Every dog is different, Ziva needs 8% to maintain her 4# weight, Zoey needs about 1.5-2% to maintain her normal weight of 4# and Shellie needs about 2% to maintain her body weight of 70#. That is per day. You will notice they will 'lean' up on Raw, they will lose any pudge/body fat and gain muscle. It was awesome watching Zoey make the transformation.*

3. I know I'm supposed to be starting with chicken backs, so my plan is to do that, and then make our way to chicken quarters and such in a couple weeks. I have never seen chicken backs though, and wondering if I can't get access to them, can't find them, is it ok to start on chicken quarters?
*I started Shellie on Chicken Quarters and she had no problems *

4. I know I read that the PMR diet pretty much covers all of a dog's nutritional needs. But is there any need for supplements or vitamins?
*The ONLY supplement I feel is needed unless you are feeding a lot of grass fed meats is Fish Oil with Vitamin E. I do give other supplements to my dogs but that is because they have health issues that require it.*

5. Has anyone tried this with their cats? I'm curious now about that too. I have a 9 yr old cat that is 8 lbs, she's always been small and lean, and a 5 yr old cat we just adopted that is a big fatty at 25 lbs omg.
*Yep have 4 cats on PMR as well. They are more picky, and if you haven't learned in school yet, they are really prone to something called Fatty Liver Disease (Hepatic Lipidosis) and you can't let them go hungry like you can dogs. My cats were pretty easy to transition but my cats are piglets  Alot of people feel that cats need 'balance' every meal, however I balance once a week and they are doing just fine. I make sure to feed lots of taurine rich meats like Heart and things like that.*

6. My husband is worried this is going to cost more than dog food, which we're trying to avoid. You know, the economy these days and all, I can't find work right now so we have one income but I don't want the dogs' diet and health to suffer due to that. Any tips/ideas on being economical?
*Yes you will spend MORE on Raw however the health benefits are going to be SOOOOOOOOOOOo worth it. My Zoey is off of 6 of her 7 longterm medications since eating raw (has been eating raw for 1 year), so that alone is worth the extra cost. As well as her not having allergies (well signs of it anyways) anymore. Finding bulk suppliers, using craigslist, talking to friends, hunters etc will help economize. I was getting HUGE rabbits from my sister for free because her python wouldn't eat them,....was really sad when she got rid of her snake*

I think that's all my noob questions, I know most everything I need is on these forums, or other websites, so I can find things on my own, just trying to get a feel for things though and make some new raw food doggy friends so I have that community there when I need/want it. I have been perusing the forums for a while now and everyone is so nice and helpful, and I haven't really seen any trolls on here


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## Erwynn (Oct 31, 2011)

Good Afternoon 

We decided to start the girls on raw last night since their last meal was Monday morning.

Due to the incoming storm we were able to only find chicken quarters, a small bag (thanks winter hoarders lol), and started them on a small quarter each last night. I deskinned the chicken and got off as much fat as I could, for now until they're used to the raw.

They took to it amazingly well, and I have to say I was really impressed by how they ate it. I had no idea how they'd swallow that thing LOL. No picky eaters here thank goodness and they're having no stomach issues. 

I fed them in bowls last night, but they quickly moved to the floor, so after reading other people's feeding methods I fed them on a blanket this morning and that was a lot easier and more sanitary to me anyways. 

They really enjoy eating the chicken raw, and Inga showed no food aggression, which I found odd, since she's like that with kibble. Both girls tend to finish the same time, but I still stand there and watch them eat. 

So far they've had two meals. No stomach upset, no butt cannons lol, and Laila's allergy rash is actually fading fairly quickly. They're not acting starved and are more calm, but have good energy to play. They really enjoy the chewing and gnawing actions. It seems to provide some good, primal enrichment.

I'm pretty satisfied right now, even though I know it's early in the process to be frustrated since I haven't had issues yet (knock on wood). I was thinking of feeding them outside, but with this storm I'll have to wait for now, it's way too cold.

A side thought...Does anyone still give their dogs dog treats? Other than raw treats? Like rawhides or cow trachea or anything?

Thanks everyone


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

No raw hides, ever very bad for dogs....But, yes my dogs get treats of dehydrated chicken, lamb and beef liver.. I'd wait it out though until your dogs are further along in their transition. You don't want anything to screw up the balance.


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## shellbell (Sep 24, 2011)

Mine still get regular dog biscuit type treats. DH gives these to them, usually once or twice a day. I have a jar of them on the counter by the door and they are used to getting one in the morning before we leave for work, lol. They aren’t very big, and I don’t think they are harming anything.

I also have chicken feet and beef trachea for raw chew treats. 

I have never given rawhide.


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

Erweynn, I used to feed Kirklands and then their Nautures Domain. With some legwork to set up contact with game meat processors, sheep processors, huunters and a meat processor that will sell to the public we are able to feed the dogs raw for the same or less than before. It does take work to set up your contacts but it is well worth it. This month I will spend $25.00 on chicken back s and will be getting about 80 - 120 pounds of shepp lung, organ, stomach and trim for free. This months all dogs food will cost $25.00. At Thanksgiving I will stock up on as many turkeys as I can so that will go to my November food bill even though they probably won't eat it til December - January. Usually I spend $100 - $150.00. I spent $150.00 per month on 4 bags of Nature's Domain, plus Show Stopper supplement at $60 per bag and various other supplements. Not anymore plus no vet visits. Do some leg work and run ads on Craig's LIst and Kiijjijji - it will pay off in the long run.


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## Erwynn (Oct 31, 2011)

Thanks friends.

Yea I know rawhide is bad, just curious. Chicken feet sound like a good option, even though they're super creepy lol. I can't wait to go shopping this weekend to see what I can find. I'm sticking to their quarters for now though before adding in more stuff. I'm tempted to make them natural jerky with our jerky since we just got a dehydrator. Make it and store it for now.

Thanks for the tips Liz, I'll look into all that. For us we were only spending about 40 a month on the kirklands, one bag lasted our girls a month. 

I'm searching for work, and with luck I'll find something, and then I won't have to worry about the cost of things. Well, I will of course, but not like i'm being a spaz right now about it.

I started a doggy bloggy about our journey into the world of raw diets, if anyone wants to read it. I kind of ramble a lot, obviously, but I'm hoping on updating it weekly with our progress. I wish I could get some cool pictures of our girls eating raw. I love the pics on PMR website with dogs tearing into the elk ribs, it's just such beautiful photography.

A Dogs Raw Journey

Thanks


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

i was freaked out by the chicken feet also. Then you start seeing the heads of stuff and realize how far we really are from the source of our meat. 

I'm glad things are going so well!

Beef trachea is very good. I feed dried lamb lung as a treat. And I am still lazy and feed them Gooberlicious now and then, although I know it's not good for them.


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