# Holistic Alternatives Section?



## chowder (Sep 7, 2008)

I was having a lengthy discussion with the breeder of my future puppy this weekend about natural rearing and I realized how much more common it is becoming. We were talking at length about alternative treatments to the current recommendations for vaccines, heart worm prevention, flea preventative, and just about everything else.

I was wondering if anyone here would like a sticky or a section where we could talk about healthy natural alternatives to some of these things. I know that I am currently trying to research what an alternative to heart worm prevention is for Rocky since he can only take Interceptor and I know that a lot of people don't even give heart worm preventative. It would also be nice to have a place where we could post for quick help with a stomach problem (like the famous slippery elm cure!) or any other situation that arises. I think we have some knowledgeable people here that would be great sources of information!

Thoughts anyone?


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

I would definately be more comfortable posting solutions/contributing suggestions in such a space. :smile:


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Me too. I'm trying to do this tick thing without chemicals. I would LOVE to feel comfortable forgoing heartworm medications but right now am too scared.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

i would love a subforum for this.

if you scroll down to the 'contact us', write to the admin.....and he can add a subforum....which is how we got the barf sub added...

might take a while, but he did


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## Donna Little (May 31, 2011)

xellil said:


> Me too. I'm trying to do this tick thing without chemicals. I would LOVE to feel comfortable forgoing heartworm medications but right now am too scared.


Living in Georgia I wouldn't ever feel comfortable not giving htw prev and I know you're in Texas so are in the same situation. 
I have lived in the same house for 19 yrs and have NEVER until yesterday seen a tick on any of my dogs. We have tons of trees and tons of wild critters and I've fought fleas every season but no ticks. Well, Camden got on my lap yesterday and I found one on his neck. 
I don't know if it's a combo of things such as all the foxes we've had here and the fact that we've had nearly no winter but I was not happy to see this little thing. I have some Frontline plus and I opened one, took one drop of it and put it directly on the tick. It was burrowed in so I was afraid to pull it out for fear it's head would come off and within an hour it was dead and it came off with no problem. So unless I'm seeing a bunch of them I'll probably do that every time. I can't even say I got any of it on the dog but it sure worked to kill the little beast. 
And as far as the rest of the Frontline, I pulled it up in a syringe and stored it away to use later.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

I will send a PM to the admin....I really hope he gets back to me about it!


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

DaneMama said:


> I will send a PM to the admin....I really hope he gets back to me about it!


this is why we lub you, miss skinny jeans


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## jgre35 (Mar 9, 2012)

Fantastic idea! I would definitely like to learn more about safer alternatives.


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## Kat (Jul 12, 2011)

That is a great idea for a sub-forum! I am also looking into alternatives for flea/tick/heartworm prevention, and there have been quite a few threads about it, so it would be nice to have it all organized and easy to access


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Donna Little said:


> Living in Georgia I wouldn't ever feel comfortable not giving htw prev and I know you're in Texas so are in the same situation.
> I have lived in the same house for 19 yrs and have NEVER until yesterday seen a tick on any of my dogs. We have tons of trees and tons of wild critters and I've fought fleas every season but no ticks. Well, Camden got on my lap yesterday and I found one on his neck.
> I don't know if it's a combo of things such as all the foxes we've had here and the fact that we've had nearly no winter but I was not happy to see this little thing. I have some Frontline plus and I opened one, took one drop of it and put it directly on the tick. It was burrowed in so I was afraid to pull it out for fear it's head would come off and within an hour it was dead and it came off with no problem. So unless I'm seeing a bunch of them I'll probably do that every time. I can't even say I got any of it on the dog but it sure worked to kill the little beast.
> And as far as the rest of the Frontline, I pulled it up in a syringe and stored it away to use later.


Now ticks I have experience with. If you hold a lit ciggy close to them, the heat will make them release. It works better when they are big and fat because when they are still flat you have to pinch the skin up so you're not heating up your dog 

I wish there was a way to test regularly and catch HW very early if it happens and have an easy treatment. From what I understand about the heartworm medications, they are just killing the baby heartworms, not stopping them. If there was a way to use the Heartguard only if there were worms present, I would try to do that. But I haven't heard of anything like that. By the time they catch them, you have to get the awful treatment.


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

Sounds like a great idea! I would love to learn more about it without having to dig through the rest of the forum


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## chowder (Sep 7, 2008)

xellil said:


> I wish there was a way to test regularly and catch HW very early if it happens and have an easy treatment. From what I understand about the heartworm medications, they are just killing the baby heartworms, not stopping them. If there was a way to use the Heartguard only if there were worms present, I would try to do that. But I haven't heard of anything like that. By the time they catch them, you have to get the awful treatment.


That's what I'm trying to research now. Because the preventative that you give is actually just the same insecticide that kills the heartworm and there are starting to be real doubts about what monthly doses of poison are doing to your dogs health in the long term. My breeder recommended the magazine Dogs Naturally and I may start getting that in addition to finding out what else I can. I have had soooo many dogs die from cancer really young and I have to wonder what the years of vaccines, monthly heartworm, and being dosed in flea products did to the poor animals.


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## jenv101 (Oct 13, 2010)

I would LOVE a section on this as well!



chowder said:


> That's what I'm trying to research now. Because the preventative that you give is actually just the same insecticide that kills the heartworm and there are starting to be real doubts about what monthly doses of poison are doing to your dogs health in the long term. My breeder recommended the magazine Dogs Naturally and I may start getting that in addition to finding out what else I can. I have had soooo many dogs die from cancer really young and I have to wonder what the years of vaccines, monthly heartworm, and being dosed in flea products did to the poor animals.


I read an in depth article that stated this same thing, saying that every three months would be sufficient. If anyone has any other info to share that would be great seeing as HW season is coming up here in a few months!

- Terrierman's Daily Dose -


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## frogdog (Aug 10, 2011)

Dido...agree with everyone and would love a subforum on such matters


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## Herzo (Feb 5, 2011)

Yep me too, would love it. I have never given heart worm but we don't have allot of it around. I kind of hate to ask the vets as I'm not sure if they would just say yes to get you to use it even if we don't have it. I sometimes wonder if it is being brought in by dogs being moving from other places. But I'm not even sure if this is how it spreads.


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

I also would love to see such a sub-forum. 
I love being able to get ideas from Liz about holistic stuff....so would also love to be able to post and get other's ideas and tips as well!!:thumb:


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

jenv101 said:


> I would LOVE a section on this as well!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That is a fantastic article. I've read similar stuff before. And of course it totally is not a surprise that the vets are raking in the dough off of unnecessary treatments.

i really do believe, if nothing else, I'm going to every three months on the heartworm meds.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Herzo said:


> Yep me too, would love it. I have never given heart worm but we don't have allot of it around. I kind of hate to ask the vets as I'm not sure if they would just say yes to get you to use it even if we don't have it. I sometimes wonder if it is being brought in by dogs being moving from other places. But I'm not even sure if this is how it spreads.


I believe the map in the article that jenv101 cited showed zero instances of heartworm in Wyoming in the last 20 years.

It is only spread by mosquitoes. A dog wont' catch it from another dog.


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## ShanniBella (Jul 1, 2011)

I always find it funny how people will feed an all natural diet like raw and then turn around and put poison both inside and outside of their dogs by using chemicals and neurotoxins to kill bugs. I don't use HW or flea prevention and haven't for years. I've had great luck with natural alternatives. I also live in New England (MA) though so I can't relate to some of you all who live in the south with warm temps year round. I'm all for a holistic alternative section


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## frogdog (Aug 10, 2011)

I want to say...I appreciate the link jenv101 posted but would not put a lot of faith into it for the sake of your dogs. I only say this because from what I read this study was conducted on dogs being seen only at animal hospitals and a very limited number of hospitals...where most dogs are taking care of by their owners. It did not state that shelters, rescues and so forth were part of the study and this is where you will see it rampid. I worked for the Humane Society thru my 20's and believe me it was a regular daily occurrence to have dogs come in that tested positive for heartworms. I can promise you we had way over 500 dogs the 6 yrs I was there and this was one place. 

I do agree with climate areas...if I wasn't in the south...I probably would not administer HW prevention.

FYI: Having one dog test positive when I was a child, rescuing another that was positive and having treated, my father rescued 2 dogs that were positive and had treated...doesn't seem that much of a rare occurrence.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

frogdog said:


> I want to say...I appreciate the link jenv101 posted but would not put a lot of faith into it for the sake of your dogs. I only say this because from what I read this study was conducted on dogs being seen only at animal hospitals and a very limited number of hospitals...where most dogs are taking care of by their owners. It did not state that shelters, rescues and so forth were part of the study and this is where you will see it rampid. I worked for the Humane Society thru my 20's and believe me it was a regular daily occurrence to have dogs come in that tested positive for heartworms. I can promise you we had way over 500 dogs the 6 yrs I was there and this is one place.
> 
> I do agree with climate areas...if I wasn't in the south...I probably would not administer HW prevention.


That is, I'm sure, true. However, i have read this before. It's not so much the number of dogs with HW I am concerned about, it's whether a dose will kill the baby worms that accumulate over the past three months.

I have read many times that we are overdosing HW meds, just like we over-vaccinate because it is a better cash cow.

However, in indiana I only gave a few doses a year. Here in Texas, they say year round. I'm definitely going to see if I can do it every 2-3 months rather than monthly. I am too scared to go totally holistic on this.


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## frogdog (Aug 10, 2011)

I totally agree with overdosing but not administering at all is another thing...I would like to know a holistic preventative that works especially living in the south where a lot of times mosquitoes are year round.


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

I think you need to take into account where dogs at the humane societies are coming from. If they are strays you don't know what kind of infested water or food they are getting much less the area they are frequenting. Plus in such conditions their immune systems are shot. Other dogs who are turned in have probably not received the best of daily care and probably have a suspect water supply and poor immune system also. I would not be surprised if 80% of these dogs have heartworm. That does not represent well cared for and healthy dogs without compromised immune systems.


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## frogdog (Aug 10, 2011)

Oh, I totally agree with what you're saying Liz but the study stated 500 cases at best for my area...when I can tell you where I worked there were far more than 500 alone. The thing is it is a true concern and not as rare as you may read. I mean, leave water standing still in our yard for any given time and it will be full of larvae...that is the south. You cannot go to my father's and walk out of the house without being coverd in mostquito bites.

Basically, no matter where you are in the south...if it's not running water such as a stream, river, etc...it will be full of mostquito larvae.

ETA: Liz, that was my point exactly in my post above...the animal hospitals that participated in the study are seeing most likely very well cared animals. I feel that doesn't give a true number of the reality.


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## ShanniBella (Jul 1, 2011)

When considering the south you may also want to take into consideration that a vast majority of dog owners allow their dogs to live outside because of the warmer temps. I have alot of friends from the south who say HW is a big problem there. You allow a dog to live outdoors the chances of a dog contracting HW greatly increases if not given prevention.


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## frogdog (Aug 10, 2011)

This is true...now of all my friends and family our dogs live inside year round.

I stopped given my dogs HW prevention during the winter years ago but our winters are becoming more like an extended fall and early spring time. We, unfortunately, are not experiencing a break in the weather and are having mosquitoes year round. I would love to know a holistic preventative that holds true especially losing my last dog to cancer and feel it was due to kibble, vaccines, heart meds, etc.


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## bridget246 (Oct 26, 2011)

I strongly support this idea. There is so much great knowledge lost in the pages of this forum. I would love to make it easier to find alternatives to medications that deal with the actually issues the dog/cat is experiencing.


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