# Advice for dry food for new puppy?



## Grey (Jul 6, 2012)

Hello! My boyfriend and I have a 1.5 year old lab/vizsla mix, but will be adding to our family soon. While we're not certain of the breed or gender yet, it will be 8 weeks old and be a larger breed -- likely a lab mix. Since we currently have a dog on adult food (presently Acana Ranchlands, but about to transition to Fromm Game Bird Recipe), does anyone have any suggestions for a puppy food for the first year? I made the mistake of feeding Nature's Recipe to my current dog and won't go down that path again. In the same vein, as Quinn's Fromm is a bit on the expensive side, I would like to find a moderately-priced, dry kibble of good quality. I know that some feed adult food to begin with, but I don't want to do that.

What I'm considering:
* Grain-free
* BOGO Bowl - Puppy... I like the idea that it gives back to a local rescue group, but they are rather expensive for even a 20lb bag!

I've been looking at the following:
Best 4-Star Dry Puppy Foods
Best 5-Star Dry Puppy Foods

Any suggestions would be very welcomed! Let me know what worked best for you.


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## monster'sdad (Jul 29, 2012)

I would suggest Dr. Tim's Kinesis, Annamaet Extra or Encore, Regal Active, Pro Plan C & R ALS or Fromm Gold. Less expensive options would be Exclusive Chicken & Rice and Victor.

With two dogs, you can buy 44lb bags of Dr. Tim's Kinesis on Petflow for a song, free shipping and no tax.

As far as GF foods go, personally I think they offer very little. I would avoid Fromm and Earthborn because of the liberal use of manufactured Pea Protein. Fromm GF's are a complete rip off in my opinion. The Game Bird food you mentioned has a high level of Pea Protein and where are the game birds? Duck is not a game bird.

I haved used Dr. Tim's GF and really liked it and I have used the Annamaet GF Salcha and really liked it as well, but spending 50% more is something you have to decide for yourself.

Don't let anyone tell you GF foods are better. If that were the case, all dog foods would be grain free.

Last point, you don't need Puppy Food, just get one that is rated All Life Stages.


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## Felix (Oct 9, 2012)

monster'sdad said:


> As far as GF foods go, personally I think they offer very little. I would avoid Fromm and Earthborn because of the liberal use of manufactured Pea Protein. Fromm GF's are a complete rip off in my opinion. The Game Bird food you mentioned has a high level of Pea Protein and where are the game birds? *Duck is not a game bird.*


Duck is most certainly a game bird. Ever heard of people going duck hunting? Really? 
Game birds include (in the US) *Duck*, pheasant, quail, partridge, crow and turkey. Also any type of water fowl like geese.


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## bett (Mar 15, 2012)

why not keep her on the food the "breeder" has her on, at least , for a while.


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## DaViking (Sep 27, 2011)

Felix said:


> Duck is most certainly a game bird. Ever heard of people going duck hunting? Really?
> Game birds include (in the US) *Duck*, pheasant, quail, partridge, crow and turkey. Also any type of water fowl like geese.


I think he meant that the duck in dog foods is certainly not coming from hunting trips. "Game birds" in this respect is just fancy marketing. No different than the Beneful ads where fresh meat and produce is literally falling down from the sky into the bowl.


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## monster'sdad (Jul 29, 2012)

Felix said:


> Duck is most certainly a game bird. Ever heard of people going duck hunting? Really?
> Game birds include (in the US) *Duck*, pheasant, quail, partridge, crow and turkey. Also any type of water fowl like geese.



I live in a coastal town and have been duck hunting since I was 7 years old, so I know what a wild duck is. The kind of duck that is raised most often commercially for food is the white Pekin Duck, or Long Island duck. The same duck you feed bread in the park. There are some other meat ducks and they are equally remote from wild ducks.

Likewise, the "quail" listed on the label i am 99.99% sure is a variety called Coturnix which is considered poultry.

That is what I meant.


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## Georgiapeach (Jan 24, 2011)

Trying to get back on topic... As long as the food is an all life stages food, there's no need to feed puppy food. However, if you absolutely have to feed a puppy food, I've heard some saying they're having good success with Blue Buffalo Freedom Puppy, which is grain free. Taste of the Wild makes all life stages kibbles, plus they now have a puppy food - may be worth a try. 

I like grain free, too, but I'm currently feeding Acana Chicken and Burbank Potato, which also includes steel cut oats. My dog food provider told me that a lot of the kennels that buy from him feed this to their puppies, with great success. It's one of Acana's most affordable kibbles.


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## Grey (Jul 6, 2012)

monster'sdad said:


> I would suggest Dr. Tim's Kinesis, Annamaet Extra or Encore, Regal Active, Pro Plan C & R ALS or Fromm Gold. Less expensive options would be Exclusive Chicken & Rice and Victor.
> 
> With two dogs, you can buy 44lb bags of Dr. Tim's Kinesis on Petflow for a song, free shipping and no tax.
> 
> ...


My family has always fed puppy food for the first year -- I've heard people say otherwise, but after feeding my dog a poor quality food and now seeing her suffer with hip dysplasia (which I know didn't "cause" it, but the protein quality I was feeding her certainly didn't help her development), I'm just trying to find the "best" thing to do. I've never heard of Dr. Tim's -- on Chewy, it's only $41 for a 30 pound bag AND it's a 5 star rated dog food? I'm intrigued!

The reason that I feed Quinn grain-free is because she's had allergies -- she still itches a lot, the last week of December. She's still itching even on Acana Ranchlands (but she's flourished physically on it), I decided to switch to Fromm's GF Game Bird (I only bought the 14 pound bag) because I had heard good reviews about it, particularly with skin allergies. I'm really curious about the Kinesis Grain Free formula. Thanks so much for recommending this brand. I've just sent an e-mail to their customer support for some feedback.

And the general population of Minnesota (where I'm originally from) would definitely consider duck a game bird... 



bett said:


> why not keep her on the food the "breeder" has her on, at least , for a while.


I'm 99% sure that she/he will be from a rescue.


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## monster'sdad (Jul 29, 2012)

Georgiapeach said:


> Trying to get back on topic... As long as the food is an all life stages food, there's no need to feed puppy food. However, if you absolutely have to feed a puppy food, I've heard some saying they're having good success with Blue Buffalo Freedom Puppy, which is grain free. Taste of the Wild makes all life stages kibbles, plus they now have a puppy food - may be worth a try.
> 
> I like grain free, too, but I'm currently feeding Acana Chicken and Burbank Potato, which also includes steel cut oats. My dog food provider told me that a lot of the kennels that buy from him feed this to their puppies, with great success. It's one of Acana's most affordable kibbles.


Oats are really good for dogs that have bad tummies, especially the whole groat which is what you are feeding.


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## Grey (Jul 6, 2012)

Georgiapeach said:


> Trying to get back on topic... As long as the food is an all life stages food, there's no need to feed puppy food. However, if you absolutely have to feed a puppy food, I've heard some saying they're having good success with Blue Buffalo Freedom Puppy, which is grain free. Taste of the Wild makes all life stages kibbles, plus they now have a puppy food - may be worth a try.
> 
> I like grain free, too, but I'm currently feeding Acana Chicken and Burbank Potato, which also includes steel cut oats. My dog food provider told me that a lot of the kennels that buy from him feed this to their puppies, with great success. It's one of Acana's most affordable kibbles.


Thanks! I did look at Blue Buffalo Freedom Puppy last night, after I posted my original post. I've heard a lot from those at the dog park and a friend of mine concerning stomach upsets due to the lifesource bits -- but that could just be their experiences. I visited a PetSmart before I switched to Acana when I was considering Blue Buffalo, though, and the representative just trash-talked other brands completely -- they were "nice" enough, but really not that professional. They had no real answer to why their food was better than Acana -- it just "was." But, again, that's one representative and perhaps not their entire company, but that's why I didn't go with Blue Buffalo at that very moment.

I looked at the Acana Chicken and Burbank Potato, but avoided it because I thought my dog was allergic to chicken. Now I realize that might not be the case, but I was trying to do trial and error...  I am going to try a different brand from Acana, though, just because these itchies are not going away. I love how her coat and her physical stamina has increased on Acana, though.


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## InkedMarie (Sep 9, 2011)

For Monster'sDad, what is it about Dr Tim's and Annamaet grainfree's that you like, compared to other grainfrees?


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## monster'sdad (Jul 29, 2012)

InkedMarie said:


> For Monster'sDad, what is it about Dr Tim's and Annamaet grainfree's that you like, compared to other grainfrees?


Good solid protein levels 30 - 32%, low ash (particularly calcium and phosphorous) and no concentrated Pea Protein like in Fromm & Earthborn. Where both are manufactured is a plus too as are each company's expertise. Both companies have a deep understanding of nutrition and really understand fat balance, with lots of animal based fats, especially high levels of fish oils all 1% or higher, and the right ratios.

Most people are attracted to higher protein in some GF's but I haven't see one dog on this forum that needs more than 30% -32% and I won't feed high ash just to get extra protein, like in Primitive of TOTW. Actually TOTW has about the same protein but 10% ash. What does that tell you?

I think both are good values as well, fair pricing, except for Annamaet's on-line pricing. Annamaet also makes the only red meat GF that I could see feeding over a lifetime. Tim's on-line price is a steal.

I like the fiber a bit better in Tim's food, and it has a bit higher fat which is good too. Tim's is more like a performance food but GF. Tim's foods are stuctured a bit different with a big lead protein and lots of additional proteins unlike Annamaet's which has fewer ingredients. One is very technical whereas the other easier to get your arms around.

But like I said, those two GF's are my favorites. The amount of ash, particularly phosphorous in many others is scary to me. Fromm's ash is low too but because the level of meat protein is much lower and filled in with Pea Protein, expensive too.

If you have a hard keeper, Tim's is better but both are great.

I have a two friends that are researchers at Cornell Vet that have 4 sporting dogs on Tim's GF, two very hard keepers. If you want I will get you in touch.


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## InkedMarie (Sep 9, 2011)

MonstersDad: thanks for the answer! I fed Annamaet gf for a short time, was just very expensive to buy locally. Just swapping my brittany over to Dr Tim's Pursuit but may try the grainfree as well. The price is sure nice. Boone's food runs me $77 for 25lbs which is why she is eating something different. I admit to being impressed when Dr Tim himself called me back. Shocked the crap out of me to be honest. I also admit to not paying much attention to ash and phosphorus. I probably should pay attention but as far as i know, Ginger has no issues with either one. Thanks again!


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

Monster's Dad- my hound mix Abbie does amazing on Earthborn's Great Plains Feast. I'm taking it you don't like this food? How can you tell what the ash levels are in this food? (And what are they?)


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## monster'sdad (Jul 29, 2012)

InkedMarie said:


> MonstersDad: thanks for the answer! I fed Annamaet gf for a short time, was just very expensive to buy locally. Just swapping my brittany over to Dr Tim's Pursuit but may try the grainfree as well. The price is sure nice. Boone's food runs me $77 for 25lbs which is why she is eating something different. I admit to being impressed when Dr Tim himself called me back. Shocked the crap out of me to be honest. I also admit to not paying much attention to ash and phosphorus. I probably should pay attention but as far as i know, Ginger has no issues with either one. Thanks again!


In my area, Annamaet is less expensive in the stores than Tim's and on-line the opposite. No dog has issues with Phosphorous until its too late.

Ash is the only true filler in dog food.

The on-line price for Pursuit is an amazing bargain in those big 44lb bags.


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## monster'sdad (Jul 29, 2012)

meggels said:


> Monster's Dad- my hound mix Abbie does amazing on Earthborn's Great Plains Feast. I'm taking it you don't like this food? How can you tell what the ash levels are in this food? (And what are they?)


You have to call the company to get the ash levels because EB doesn't disclose it on the bag. I don't like it because of the use of Pea Protein. It is suggests to me the protein from fish is not that high.

Pea protein is just a more consumer friendly form of Corn Gluten.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

monster'sdad said:


> You have to call the company to get the ash levels because EB doesn't disclose it on the bag. I don't like it because of the use of Pea Protein. It is suggests to me the protein from fish is not that high.
> 
> Pea protein is just a more consumer friendly form of Corn Gluten.


It's bison based, not fish based, but i get what you're saying LOL. 

It's definitely the best she's done on a food. I'm really happy on it. Even if it's got a lot of pea...something in it is working with her?


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## doggiedad (Jan 23, 2011)

i've never fed puppy food to my dogs. what's in puppy food that makes it puppy food?


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## InkedMarie (Sep 9, 2011)

monster'sdad said:


> In my area, Annamaet is less expensive in the stores than Tim's and on-line the opposite. No dog has issues with Phosphorous until its too late.
> 
> Ash is the only true filler in dog food.
> 
> The on-line price for Pursuit is an amazing bargain in those big 44lb bags.


What would be the issues with phosphorus (making it too late)? I can't buy Dr Tim's locally, Annamaet is a 40min drive. I just order all food now, much easier and saves gas.
I got the 44lb of Pursuit. Even the prices for the grainfree is $20 less than Brothers, which is what Boone eats


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## BeagleCountry (Jan 20, 2012)

meggels said:


> Monster's Dad- my hound mix Abbie does amazing on Earthborn's Great Plains Feast. I'm taking it you don't like this food? How can you tell what the ash levels are in this food? (And what are they?)


Ash Content:
Primitive Natural is 12.0%
Great Plains Feast is 9.8%
Coastal Catch is 7.5%
Meadow Feast is 9.1%
(Adult Vantage is 6.7%)
(Ocean Fusion is 8.8%)
(Small Breed is 8.0%)
(Puppy Vantage is 8.1%)

Source:
Earthborn Holistic Grain Free Dog Food | Review and Rating


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## monster'sdad (Jul 29, 2012)

InkedMarie said:


> What would be the issues with phosphorus (making it too late)? I can't buy Dr Tim's locally, Annamaet is a 40min drive. I just order all food now, much easier and saves gas.
> I got the 44lb of Pursuit. Even the prices for the grainfree is $20 less than Brothers, which is what Boone eats


What I meant about phosporous is if it damages the dog's kidneys it will be permanent damage and you might not know until the damage is severe. 

I am not suggesting this will happen to every dog but you have no way of knowing what the impact will be over a long period of time, and there is no upside to large amounts of phosphorous so why risk it. 

It is only recently that dogs have started to eat so much mineral content in high protein foods and that is what concerns me, especially some of the price point foods.

Believe it or not, Purina & Eukanuba have always formulated along the low ash approach but neither market that benefit. I suppose because it is not something most consumers care to learn about.

Only time will tell if most dogs can consume so much mineral like phosphorous but my guess is this is something that will become more of an issue. I have friend that fed TOTW and they complained about excessive drinking which to me suggests the dog stressing to get the high mineral content out. The irony is Diamond's chief Vet has warned about Ash content in the past.

Dr. Tim's GF is $20 less a bag and you also get 5 more Lbs, so it is almost 40% less per lb.


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## Jacksons Mom (Jun 13, 2010)

Does Dr Tims do samples? I've got Annamaet samples on the way, and would be interested in trying Dr Tims too without purchasing a big bag.


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## monster'sdad (Jul 29, 2012)

Jacksons Mom said:


> Does Dr Tims do samples? I've got Annamaet samples on the way, and would be interested in trying Dr Tims too without purchasing a big bag.


I am sure they do just call or email. I did see a promotion on Petflow for a 5lb bag GF.

http://www.petflow.com/product/dr--...ce=fb&utm_medium=fb1218drtims&utm_campaign=fb


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## Grey (Jul 6, 2012)

Thanks for all the great responses!

Today, after I couldn't take the sound of Quinn itching anymore and finding a scab behind her ear of where she scratched with her claw, I started transitioning her over to Fromm's Four Star Game Bird Recipe as I mentioned earlier in this thread. I already had a small bag, but part of me wanted to finish the Acana Ranchlands bag purely because there's about 25% left and it was quite expensive.

I didn't expect her reaction -- she went nuts! Went back and forth to her bowl for fifteen minutes after finishing her meal. I was also surprised at the "pellet-like" kibble, too -- it reminded me of rabbit food. Thankfully, it doesn't smell horrible, either. Acana Ranchlands smells atrocious and my dog's breath has been horrid on it.

A representative from Fromm, like some of you have said, also told me that you can feed the Four Star line to puppies, too, as it's all life stages. I can also switch out the protein without transitioning, as well, since the Four Star line is made with the same "basics" and shouldn't upset stomachs to switch flavors.

Just wanted to share my experience so far! No new puppy yet, but I'm rethinking Dr. Tim's due to the lack of a grain-free Pursuit formula. I like the idea of feeding the grain-free All Stages formula of Dr. Tim's to a puppy for its first year, though.

Pretty excited about Fromm currently! 

Happy 2013!


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## monster'sdad (Jul 29, 2012)

Grey said:


> Thanks for all the great responses!
> 
> Today, after I couldn't take the sound of Quinn itching anymore and finding a scab behind her ear of where she scratched with her claw, I started transitioning her over to Fromm's Four Star Game Bird Recipe as I mentioned earlier in this thread. I already had a small bag, but part of me wanted to finish the Acana Ranchlands bag purely because there's about 25% left and it was quite expensive.
> 
> ...


Dr. Tim's GF has more protein than Pursuit and just a bit less fat.


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## Grey (Jul 6, 2012)

Okay! So, things have changed a bit. For those who haven't seen my thread on the general forums, we're fostering a lab/mastiff mix -- mother was a 60lb lab, father was a 150lb purebred English mastiff. He's currently on Iams ActivePuppy from the rescue but, if we keep him, that will obviously be changing. Gearing the discussion more towards his breed now...

I have my current dog on *Fromm's Four Star line* (presently Game Bird), as I mentioned. Nutritional details are here -- and they appear all very similar for the other three grain-free Four Star flavors.
http://frommfamily.com/pdf/typical-analysis/four-star-dog-dry-game-bird.pdf

I do like that *Fromm's Large Breed Puppy* - Gold line seems to have great calcium levels compared to their regular Puppy Gold:
http://frommfamily.com/pdf/typical-analysis/gold-dog-dry-large-breed-adult.pdf

Because of his mastiff background, I'm concerned about his large breed genetics. I am not sold on the entire "large breed puppy food" fad, but I DO want to make sure that he's getting the right amount of calcium/etc for his breed background. I'm happy that we know the exact breed of the parents.

If you were me, given his breed history, would you feel safe feeding either of the two above? Is one preferable? I am leaning towards the Large Breed Puppy due to the protein levels, and then switching him to the Game Bird recipe at 1 year old (let me know if you have any feedback on that time-frame, as well). But, the idea of feeding them the same food is a little tempting!

As Dr. Tim's was mentioned so much in this thread previously, his All Stages formula that _includes_ grain looks more suited than the grain-free, due to the protein and calcium levels.

Thanks for all of your feedback so far! Love this discussion.


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## Grey (Jul 6, 2012)

Any feedback on this?


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## mayayoung (May 24, 2015)

why are you switching the food for your older dog?? Acana is a great food, one of the best i've seen. Fromm is also good, but honestly 29% protein isn't enough for my liking. I feed Wellness core dry food, and occasionally top it with the wellness core 95% meat canned food. I would recommend the wellness core puppy formula. What i did when shadow was a puppy was soak her food in some warm water, and then take it out of the water, and top it with a bit of goat's milk and canned food.


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## InkedMarie (Sep 9, 2011)

mayayoung said:


> why are you switching the food for your older dog?? Acana is a great food, one of the best i've seen. Fromm is also good, but honestly 29% protein isn't enough for my liking. I feed Wellness core dry food, and occasionally top it with the wellness core 95% meat canned food. I would recommend the wellness core puppy formula. What i did when shadow was a puppy was soak her food in some warm water, and then take it out of the water, and top it with a bit of goat's milk and canned food.


Do you realize this post is well over 2 years old & the last post is from 20143?


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