# Does My Golden Need Digestive Enzymes?



## GoldenGirl (Mar 31, 2010)

I feed my 6 year old golden Dr. Harvey's Canine Health and it's worked well but my dog still seems to have an issue with belching. He burps all the time and loud too! He also has ranky breath (he doesn't have any dental issues) and I've read that both of these are symptoms of a need for digestive enzymes to be added to his diet.

Anyone had this issue? Did you add the enzymes? If so, which ones did you use?

Thanks,
Jean


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## chowder (Sep 7, 2008)

Hi. Welcome to the forum. I am also from the Raleigh area. I looked up your dog food and it wasn't easy finding the ingredient list. This is what I finally found listed on their website....

Organic Brown Rice, Organic Kamut, Organic Oats, Organic Spelt, Organic Barley, Organic Triticale, Potatoes * , Carrots * ,Zucchini * , Sweet Potatoes ** , Peas ** , Broccoli, Green Beans, Beets, Calcium Citrate, Parsley, Lecithin, Garlic, Bee Pollen, Nutritional Yeast, Alfalfa, Rose Hips, Red Clover, Oat Straw, Flax Seed Meal * , Papaya, Rosemary, Dandelion, Peppermint, Ginger, Spirulina * , Fenugreek * , Basil Leaf, Fennel Seed

*Dehydrated **Freeze-Dried


I am assuming you must adding your own meat to the food since it doesn't include any meat. Your dog could be belching because of a lot of the ingredients in the food. It is heavy in grains (rice, oats, barley, oat straw ) and carbs, and also has yeast and beets which have been known to cause allergies in some dogs. While it is all organic, it contains a lot of ingredients that are not necessary for dogs to eat and no meat at all. Maybe there is a different version that they sell that I did not see at their web site that might be better. 

Glad you found our site. Be sure and check out the dry and canned section. There is a lot of information about all the different foods out there. We have a really good store in Holly Springs that sells a wide variety of specialty foods and has small bags that you can try if you ever want to rotate foods.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

From the sounds of it and looking at that food, your dog is definitely having a really hard time digesting his food. Nothing in that food is a part of a natural diet for a dog. This food actually lacks what a dog should be eating...

Instead of adding in enzymes you should really consider switching foods. The fact that he is having such a hard time digesting it, should tell you that it's not appropriate.


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

danemama08 said:


> From the sounds of it and looking at that food, your dog is definitely having a really hard time digesting his food. Nothing in that food is a part of a natural diet for a dog. This food actually lacks what a dog should be eating...
> 
> Instead of adding in enzymes you should really consider switching foods. The fact that he is having such a hard time digesting it, should tell you that it's not appropriate.


I agree with Natalie. Completely the wrong diet for a dog. No wonder he is having problems digesting it. His body is not designed to digest these ingredients.


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## GoldenGirl (Mar 31, 2010)

danemama08 said:


> From the sounds of it and looking at that food, your dog is definitely having a really hard time digesting his food. Nothing in that food is a part of a natural diet for a dog. This food actually lacks what a dog should be eating...
> 
> Instead of adding in enzymes you should really consider switching foods. The fact that he is having such a hard time digesting it, should tell you that it's not appropriate.


So what is it specifically lacking? He gets protein and oil with it and this is the third food I've tried and he burps with everything. That's why it seemed to me that he was lacking something to help his digestive tract.

Thanks,
Jean


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## GoldenGirl (Mar 31, 2010)

RawFedDogs said:


> I agree with Natalie. Completely the wrong diet for a dog. No wonder he is having problems digesting it. His body is not designed to digest these ingredients.


Could you explain your statement "His body is not designed to digest these ingredients." Do dogs have a problem digesting grains and veggies?

Thanks,
Jean


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## GoldenGirl (Mar 31, 2010)

chowder said:


> Hi. Welcome to the forum. I am also from the Raleigh area. I looked up your dog food and it wasn't easy finding the ingredient list. This is what I finally found listed on their website....
> 
> Organic Brown Rice, Organic Kamut, Organic Oats, Organic Spelt, Organic Barley, Organic Triticale, Potatoes * , Carrots * ,Zucchini * , Sweet Potatoes ** , Peas ** , Broccoli, Green Beans, Beets, Calcium Citrate, Parsley, Lecithin, Garlic, Bee Pollen, Nutritional Yeast, Alfalfa, Rose Hips, Red Clover, Oat Straw, Flax Seed Meal * , Papaya, Rosemary, Dandelion, Peppermint, Ginger, Spirulina * , Fenugreek * , Basil Leaf, Fennel Seed
> 
> ...


Thanks for the welcome. 

I am a bit confused as to why everyone is saying this is the wrong diet. He does get a protein (turkey, ground beef, lentils, eggs, etc) and oil (flaxseed, olive, etc.) with each meal, as well as the grains. From a lot of the homemade recipes I see, veggies and grains are used so that's why I'm not tracking.

Look forward to being educated.

Thanks,
Jean


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## chowder (Sep 7, 2008)

Dogs don't need to eat anything except meat since they are carnivores. They don't digest grains , although there is some thought that they can get nutrients from vegies if they are ground (there is some disagreement on that so I will leave it open to debate). That is why a lot of people on this forum have switched their dogs to grain free food or prey model raw diets. With your dog getting mostly grains and yeast in his stomach from his current food, he is basically making beer in his belly! (my husbands idea!) and that could be why he is belching.....fermentation going on, not digestion. 

I have all 4 of my dogs on grain free food, including a 4 month old chihuahua and a 13 year old Lhasa with food allergies. The Chihuahua was rescued and had hypoglycmic episodes until we put her on grain free EVO small bites. She hasn't had an episode since and has doubled in size (from 1 pound to 2 pounds!). My 13 year old Lhasa was switched to grain free after 12 years of constant allergies and searching for the right foods. She is doing great now and her hair has actually grown back when one vet had told me she had Cushings and there was no treatment for her! Rocky was raised on grain free since he was a puppy and is now 18 months old and 75 pounds. Shadey was another rescue that we got at 3 1/2 years and has been on the grain free for 6 months now that we have had him and is a happy, bouncy boy. They all have tiny, firm, poops and no digestive issues. 

We use EVO grain free kibble but have also used Orijen. There are others out there that are also available. I also give them grain free canned food every day for variety and to give them more meat content. There are a lot of grain free canned foods available. Rocky is so used to being raised on an all meat diet that he will refuse any sort of carbohydrates like french fries or bread or potato chips. 

I hope this helps explain some of what you asked about the food. If you have any more questions, just ask. Welcome again and enjoy the beautiful weather today! It's a little hot out for Rocky but I can't wait to get the garden started.


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

GoldenGirl said:


> Could you explain your statement "His body is not designed to digest these ingredients." Do dogs have a problem digesting grains and veggies?


Dogs are carnivores. Carnivores eat meat, bones and organs of the prey animals they catch and kill. Nothing else. You would never see a wolf grazing in a corn field or a rice paddy or a wheat field. You don't see a dog or wolf chasing a rabbit through a corn field and stopping to say, "hey this corn is much easier to catch. Think I will eat it instead." 

Their bodies are designed from the tip of their snout to the anus to eat, digest, and expell meat, bone and organs. They do not have the dentation nor the jaw structure to properly chew plant matter. They do not produce the enzymes necessary to digest plant matter. Their intestines are way too short to digest plant matter. They are incapable of digesting fresh raw plant matter. Plants must be HIGHLY processed before they can absorb anything from them. 

Since they can't eat whole fresh plant matter in the wild then that tells you that they don't need it. My 10yo Great Dane, Abby, hasn't eaten any plant matter in 8 years. Thor, my 5yo Great Dane, hasn't eaten any plant matter in his entire life since he was 12 weeks old. They are both healthy dogs. That alone is another indication that dogs have no dietary need for plants of any kind.

To answer your question, dogs not only have a problem digesting plant matter, they just cannot do it unless man has intervened.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

GoldenGirl said:


> So what is it specifically lacking? He gets protein and oil with it and this is the third food I've tried and he burps with everything. That's why it seemed to me that he was lacking something to help his digestive tract.
> 
> Thanks,
> Jean


The kibble itself is lacking meat and organs (byproducts) and bone to start with. Basically, it lacks in everything a carnivore like your Golden needs to thrive. It actually looks like it might make a decent rabbit feed!

I would say that your dog is getting the burps on anything you have tried feeding him so far, because he has an intolerance to grains, wheat, soy, or any of the other plant items found in kibbles. A lot of dogs show intolerance in many different ways, burping like you say is one of them. Constant diarrhea, skin allergies, lethargy, etc can all be associated with intolerance to plant based nutrition.

I would highly, highly recommend getting him off of any and all plant based foods, and switch to a completely raw meaty bones/prey model raw diet which is what he is meant to eat.

I'm glad that you are interested in learning more, that is what is truly important and you have come to the right place! :biggrin: 

Here is a link for you to read through:

Why PMR? | Prey Model Raw


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## SuriLove (Mar 28, 2010)

I am very new to the forum and to Raw feeding, bt I agree with others the enzymes can help but it's the diet. 

My story is very similar - my one standard poodle does have some belly issues BUT one thing I really could not stand was her breath was so terrible and she had gas from both ends - BAD. With changing kibble to RAW I have already seen her breath and the gas getting better everyday and its only been a week. 

BTW - I was using low grain and no grain as I was changing foods every few months and still had the gas and smell issue, along with lose stools. 

I would suggest a low/no grain kibble at the very least and then add in the D.E's.


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## JayJayisme (Aug 2, 2009)

Wow, that's like the worst dog food ingredient list I've ever seen. No meat at all, just stuff the dog can't process properly. I guess you're supposed to add meat to it, but why? Just put the meat in the bowl and leave the expensive but useless mix in the bag. At least in the photo of the "Canine Health Meal" they show raw meat in the photo, which is good. Unfortunately they cook it in the demo video, which is bad. Either way, everything it's mixed with is utterly useless to a dog.

GoldenGirl (or Jean, whichever you prefer), the shock and dismay in these posts is not directed towards you personally. Every one of us has been duped by a dog food manufacturer at one time or another. That's why we are all here and why we get so passionate about our disgust with the whole industry.

The problem is that people often try to apply human standards to dog nutrition which is all wrong but it's what the dog food manufacturers count on. It's hard to sort fact from fiction when these companies use all sorts of color adjectives, like "The Finest All-Natural Dog Food" and make useless ingredients like "6 certified organic grains, 9 vegetables and 14 herbs" sound so wholesome. It's easy to get sucked in because that is the kind of stuff we are used to seeking out in our human diets. Dog food marketing is directed towards humans, not dogs, so they all use language we as humans relate to. Too bad it's all useless to your dog.

The bottom line is that you wouldn't feed meat to a horse or a rabbit, right? You know these animals are herbivores. By the same token, dogs are carnivores, just like cats. So feeding them grains, herbs, and vegetables is about the same as feeding steak to a horse. As omnivores, we have a hard time accepting that but it's a fact of nature. Do your beautiful golden retriever a huge favor and feed him meat, or at least dog food that is mostly meat and low on fillers. Avoid grains completely if you can. A raw (prey model raw) diet is best but if that's not an option for you, there are some good suggestions on high quality commercial foods here:

http://dogfoodchat.com/forum/dry-canned-dog-food/587-top-five-dog-food-brands.html


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## GoldenGirl (Mar 31, 2010)

JayJayisme said:


> Wow, that's like the worst dog food ingredient list I've ever seen. No meat at all, just stuff the dog can't process properly. I guess you're supposed to add meat to it, but why? Just put the meat in the bowl and leave the expensive but useless mix in the bag. At least in the photo of the "Canine Health Meal" they show raw meat in the photo, which is good. Unfortunately they cook it in the demo video, which is bad. Either way, everything it's mixed with is utterly useless to a dog.
> 
> GoldenGirl (or Jean, whichever you prefer), the shock and dismay in these posts is not directed towards you personally. Every one of us has been duped by a dog food manufacturer at one time or another. That's why we are all here and why we get so passionate about our disgust with the whole industry.
> 
> ...


Thanks - I will take a look at the list and do some research.

- Jean


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## GoldenGirl (Mar 31, 2010)

danemama08 said:


> The kibble itself is lacking meat and organs (byproducts) and bone to start with. Basically, it lacks in everything a carnivore like your Golden needs to thrive. It actually looks like it might make a decent rabbit feed!
> 
> I would say that your dog is getting the burps on anything you have tried feeding him so far, because he has an intolerance to grains, wheat, soy, or any of the other plant items found in kibbles. A lot of dogs show intolerance in many different ways, burping like you say is one of them. Constant diarrhea, skin allergies, lethargy, etc can all be associated with intolerance to plant based nutrition.
> 
> ...


Thanks Natalie - I'll definitely read this over. 

Another question - with feeding raw, what do you do when you go on vacation? Any issues with those that watch your dogs continuing your dog's diet?

Has anyone else had a issue when away from their dogs for a period of time?

Thanks,
Jean


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

We get someone to stay at our house while we are gone that is comfortable feeding raw. You can also call around to the boarding facilities and ask if they will cater to raw feeders. There are plenty boarding facilities out there that do. If we take the dogs camping or on the road with us, we just pack a cooler with frozen meat and feed that. Just go to a walmart or grocery store for more meat if needed.


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## sal101011 (Jan 17, 2010)

from time to time i use the fruitables pumpkin digestive supplement, it helps a lot! when i had hazel, she seem mal-nourished, and wouldnt eat anything, until i mixed in some of the fruitables pumpkin digestive supplement, not only did it help her with her digestion, but it is great for finicky eaters


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## jdatwood (Apr 13, 2009)

GoldenGirl said:


> Another question - with feeding raw, what do you do when you go on vacation? Any issues with those that watch your dogs continuing your dog's diet?


What we've done in the past is to package up daily meals in quart or gallon bags and label them for each day. When it comes time to feed the dogs they empty the bag out and give the portion to the dog(s)

Makes it stupid simple for someone watching your dogs :wink:


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## GoldenGirl (Mar 31, 2010)

jdatwood said:


> What we've done in the past is to package up daily meals in quart or gallon bags and label them for each day. When it comes time to feed the dogs they empty the bag out and give the portion to the dog(s)
> 
> Makes it stupid simple for someone watching your dogs :wink:


Thanks - I have a stupid question. Are you freezing the prepackaged meals for them to thaw or can you make a weeks worth of meals and just have them leave it in the fridge?

- Jean


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## Ania's Mommy (Feb 8, 2009)

^^^^

What we do is put about 1/2 a week's food in a tuperware like container and pull out meat pieces for each meal. I don't package individual meals because I'm forgetful and just can't seem to remember to take out a new container every night! Plus, the large containers fit better in the freezer.

If you are worried about spoilage from large packages of meat staying in your 'fridge for a week or more, don't be. Dogs can eat stuff much more rancid than what you would be able to stand smelling in your refridgerator! :biggrin:

Richelle


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

I would say that thawed meat will last a week or so in the fridge without getting too smelly, but fine for the dogs to eat. After about a week or so, it will start to smell, but still be fine for dogs to eat. We fed green lamb ribs once and the dogs were fine...just a bit of gas.

Here is a photo of one of our freezers (we have two dedicated freezers for raw meats):










The white topped containers are our "meals" that we thaw out. We pull one out the night before and set it on top of the freezer to sit out overnight and through the next day to thaw. Most of the time its still very frozen in the middle. One of those containers typically lasts us 2 days (we feed 7-9 #'s of meat per day). I don't like using bags because they tear and they are disposable. I like using the containers that we reuse, more economical and practical and environmentally friendly.


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## jdatwood (Apr 13, 2009)

GoldenGirl said:


> Thanks - I have a stupid question. Are you freezing the prepackaged meals for them to thaw or can you make a weeks worth of meals and just have them leave it in the fridge?


Whatever works best for the person feeding your dogs. If they don't mind thawing a new package every night for the next day, freeze them. If you want it as easy as possible, just have them in the fridge.

Like Ania's Mommy said, the dogs can eat some pretty ugly meat so sitting in the fridge for a week wouldn't be an issue. :wink:


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## GoldenGirl (Mar 31, 2010)

danemama08 said:


> I would say that thawed meat will last a week or so in the fridge without getting too smelly, but fine for the dogs to eat. After about a week or so, it will start to smell, but still be fine for dogs to eat. We fed green lamb ribs once and the dogs were fine...just a bit of gas.
> 
> Here is a photo of one of our freezers (we have two dedicated freezers for raw meats):
> 
> ...


Have you ever given the dogs semi-frozen meat? If so, any issues?

- Jean


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## Ania's Mommy (Feb 8, 2009)

I try not to, but sometimes it's unavoidable. I did it last night, in fact. No problems whatsoever! Meatcicles are better than kibble! :biggrin:

Richelle


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## jdatwood (Apr 13, 2009)

GoldenGirl said:


> Have you ever given the dogs semi-frozen meat? If so, any issues?
> 
> - Jean


They've gotten frozen, partially frozen, thawed, green & stinky meat and they've been fine. :wink:


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## GoldenGirl (Mar 31, 2010)

Ania's Mommy said:


> I try not to, but sometimes it's unavoidable. I did it last night, in fact. No problems whatsoever! Meatcicles are better than kibble! :biggrin:
> 
> Richelle


LOL - Meatcicles! I think you need to trademark that phrase and make it the next hot, late night infomercial product!

- Jean


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