# Harry having eating issues again. DARNITALL



## kevin bradley (Aug 9, 2009)

well, its been a crappy last couple of weeks.... Harry is back to his finicky eating again. Blood work is great. Took him for x rays yesterday and everything checked out. No vomitting. Energy levels are ok. Spirit is ok.... he's slowing down at about 10 yrs old but still gets around fine. 

Its this darn battle of getting him to eat. Not sure if anyone recalls but i initially posted this about 2 months ago and thought I had it solved. Admittedly, when he doesn't eat for a day or so, I cave and cook him a chicken breast. Its excruciating to not see my boy eat. Seriously, its all I can handle and my days now hinge on whether or not he will eat. 

Do you guys have any tips? Seriously, he will even turn his nose up at canned food now. He loves those chicken breasts though and will almost never refuse those. Something is different with him... I haven't completely ruled out something medical. I haven't ruled out that I have caused this mess either. Frankly, I'm lost and don't really know where to turn any more. My Vet isn't offerring much additional insight. He just says to keep an eye on him. 

Harry was always a pretty good eater. This really sucks. 

So if I follow the advice of Monster and others... just wait him out. How do I do this? Do I just not have him eat for days on end? Can I at least mix some wet food in w/ dry while dealing with this?


----------



## Kassandra (Jun 6, 2012)

I remember when you first posted about this. It sucks that you are going through this as I know how much it sucks seeing your dog not want to eat. You can't help but think something is drastically wrong. I know I always think the worst, anyways. 

I think that I would just spoil my dog and feed him what he wanted to eat. At 10 years old, I would assume he deserves it! I know when I am that old I will be eating what I want when I want :wink:

If you do want to just wait it out, though, just feed him as usual and if he doesn't eat, then he doesn't eat. He will be fine not eating for a couple of days, unless there are known medical reasons as to why you can't. He won't starve himself to death.. when he is hungry enough, he'll eat something. I know it is painful watching your dog not eat for a few days because if that was you, you would be so uncomfortable. Charlie was a picky eater before we got Remi. Some days she would eat, other times she wouldn't eat for a few days no matter what I tried. Now she will eat whatever I put in her bowl because I fasted her for a two days and she had to sit there and watch Remi eat.

Mixing in some wet food with his dry is really your call. If you want to do it, do it. If you don't want to do it, don't do it.


----------



## monster'sdad (Jul 29, 2012)

He has you trained, thats for sure. This dog is not the kind you can spoil and get back on track. Also, if you react emotionally in front of him when he does this he may get the idea you don't want him to eat. If you hang around when he eats he may not eat unless you hang around. 

Simplfy your life, dry food and that is it. He will never starve himself. Give him 15 minutes and then take it away. Try in the morning. I would also seriously consider feeding at night only.


----------



## kevin bradley (Aug 9, 2009)

..ok, so how many days would you let him hold out on you?

I think I may be in for a long next week if I really try this.


----------



## monster'sdad (Jul 29, 2012)

It won't take as long as you think if you are tough and don't give in. Getting him out running a bit too.

He may be eating too much and is just compensating.


----------



## kevin bradley (Aug 9, 2009)

not sure he's been eating too much Monster. I'd guess he's not eating more than 400-500 calories/day with a couple chicken breasts, some occasional wet food and apple slices mixed in. 

He hadn't lost much weight when I weighed him at the Vet yesterday which made me feel better... he's hanging around 54 lbs.

This is gonna suck. But things can't got on like this forever. No way.


----------



## Kassandra (Jun 6, 2012)

Yeah for sure it sucks. I would go maybe 4, 5 days honestly before giving in. After that I feel like enough is enough, give him what he wants, but not much of it, make sure he is still hungry. Then do it all over again.

It's good he isn't losing weight. Means there likely isn't anything wrong, he is just being a stubborn butt head.


----------



## monster'sdad (Jul 29, 2012)

kevin bradley said:


> not sure he's been eating too much Monster. I'd guess he's not eating more than 400-500 calories/day with a couple chicken breasts, some occasional wet food and apple slices mixed in.
> 
> He hadn't lost much weight when I weighed him at the Vet yesterday which made me feel better... he's hanging around 54 lbs.
> 
> This is gonna suck. But things can't got on like this forever. No way.


Wow that is like a Vegas buffet.......he will eat when he is hungry. I wouldn't worry.


----------



## Georgiapeach (Jan 24, 2011)

I've had two different dogs try this on me over the years, a previous boxer and a cockapoo. Both lasted three days with no eating, then they ate like they'd never been fed before after that! The only type of dogs I wouldn't do this with are the really tiny ones b/c of blood sugar issues. Otherwise, tough love. My dogs always do the happy dance at feding time at my house. Also, I feed twice daily, so they don't have to go 24 hours without food, unless they choose to do so. I do add water to the kibble to enhance the aroma, but not canned, gravy, etc.


----------



## riddick4811 (Nov 2, 2011)

Are his teeth okay? 

If it was a young, healthy dog, I would probably wait them out. But an older dog, I'm more inclined to humor them. Since he likes chicken so much, can you not cook the chicken and run it thru a food processor with some broth and then put a few spoonfuls over the kibble and mix it, coating the kibble so he can't pick it out? I usually do this with chicken quarters. Cook them in the crockpot, debone them in, usually throw in some liver and then run it thru the processor and into tupperware containers. 

Pongo eats his food most days, but some days he doesn't want the kibble he gets. So I give him a different one. He is almost 16 yrs old, so I figure it is the least I can do for him. Tonight he ate his Now small breed kibble and then I gave him dollap of ricotta cheese after he was done with the kibble. He likes the shape of the Now small breed. Some of his teeth are getting bad, I had a few pulled, but being a small breed and he has been rough on his teeth going after rats and ripping up walls and stuff. Plus he has always been a bit of a scraper. He lost one tooth in my Doberman one time!


----------



## kevin bradley (Aug 9, 2009)

Rid, good idea but probably won't work with Harry. Its like the MORE I try to trick him to do things, the more stubborn he gets. Its almost the opposite of what you would think. I even tried cooking up a meatloaf with ground beef the other day, with eggs and ground up egg shells to try and balance calcium/phosphorous levels(another entire issue that concerns me....if I end up having to cook him chicken all the time, I need to figure out calcium supplementation)....well, he kind of liked the meatloaf but its as if he has chicken breasts on his mind so thats what he wants... so after awhile he didn't even want the loaf. SERIOUSLY a Dog that is turning up his nose at ground beef loaf? I'm still really afraid something is wrong with him. But I've had blood work done, the vet has combed him up and down, x rays...he was actually really astonished at how good everything looks on xrays and blood work for a Dog Harry's age. Vet said teeth were ok and he said in all his years, he's only seen 1 dog not eat due to teeth. Not sure what to think about that... I will say that Harry does seem to look kind of funny lately when he's eating, almost like he's wrestling with the food on one side or the other but he also had a few teeth pulled years ago so that could be it. I haven't completely ruled teeth issues out I guess. Hell, I haven't ruled anything out to be honest.

Murphy is my other guy and he's most likely older than Harry(both rescues) and christ, he would eat 30 cups of food if I put it out. 

Thanks everyone for the advice and support. 

I'll say it again, if you don't have to deal with this, be thankful. It sucks big time. Really hard mentally to deal with.


----------



## Jacksons Mom (Jun 13, 2010)

Honestly, sometimes regular vets aren't all that great in regards to dental care. I've heard of vets telling people their dogs teeth looked great/fine, and then they have adult teeth that fall off (happened to a friend of mine). Took the dog to the dental specialist and had to have, like, 5 teeth pulled.

At his age, I'd really wonder about teeth. Has he ever had a dental?


----------



## Penny & Maggie's Mom (May 19, 2009)

If you decide to try to entice him, try some green tripe (raw if you can find it, if not Trippets canned is great). It's a wonderful appetite stimulant and I swear is like doggy crack. I use it several nights/week as a topper. Be ready to gag, but it's super healthy for them. This is not the bleached tripe found at some grocery stores. Good luck.


----------



## doggiedad (Jan 23, 2011)

keep looking for something he likes. try different kibbles. i top my dogs kibble
with fresh meat, fish, can food, can fish (in water no salt added), salmon oil
(human grade), organic yogurt, certain fruit, raw egg, whole egg (shell in oven,
then grind it in the coffee maker and serve), raw 4oz ground beef pattie, etc.
does your dog like can food? you may have to cook something for him.
good luck. you'll find something he likes.

if you find something he likes then after sometime he doesn't like it
switch again. your dog is worth the effort.


----------



## DDBsR4Me (Jan 23, 2012)

Penny & Maggie's Mom said:


> If you decide to try to entice him, try some green tripe (raw if you can find it, if not Trippets canned is great). It's a wonderful appetite stimulant and I swear is like doggy crack. I use it several nights/week as a topper. Be ready to gag, but it's super healthy for them. This is not the bleached tripe found at some grocery stores. Good luck.


This was going to be my recommendation. My dogs have all LOVED tripe...it smells horrible, but that's probably part of the allure for them!


----------



## InkedMarie (Sep 9, 2011)

This is what I would do, only because he's older. Get a bag of Grandma Lucy's. We just adopted a senior dog who has no teeth, I got it for her nd holy crap, she loves it! It smells great and has hunks of meat in it. Ll she's ever had is crappy food, I was afraid she wouldn't eat it but he's gobbling it right up. If he eats it but you want him back on kibble, start adding in some of the kibble. If you buy it nd he won't eat it, I'll buy it from you.


----------



## Sapphire-Light (Aug 8, 2010)

I have a similar problem wit my toy poodle, he is very finicky and the most frustrating thing is that he was made like that by my father who was feeding him table scraps and he still does it sometimes, this makes me very angry.

An important thing that was said in this tread is your reaction when you feed the dog, I had a time were I was so irritated and felt like everything was useless and in those days my dog didn't even get near the bowl or he barely touched the food.

The key is to try to think positive and when is the time to feed the dog you have to act exited, is not something all over the top, but when is the time to feed I say "munchies, munchies" wit a happy tone and he gets exited .


The vet told me that a great thing for picky dogs, is that when you are preparing the meal you can fake you are eating from it while saying things like "hmmm.. tasty" and the dog will start to be more interested since it thinks you are eating it.


I know this things can sound silly, however at least wit my dog it has helped not 100% but his interest in eating is has gotten better than before.


----------



## DaViking (Sep 27, 2011)

How old is he and is he intact?

edit: sorry, just saw that he is 10 years old. How many dogs do you got to feed? Something super palatable like Royal-Canin Mini or Mini Special might just be the ticket. Special is the better one IMO. Never mind it's called "mini" (I can hear the ingredient police sharpening their knifes right now, haha)


----------



## monster'sdad (Jul 29, 2012)

He will eat....he is playing you for something else, or he interprets your emotions in a negative way.


----------



## lauren43 (Feb 6, 2011)

Just an FYI my dog went 7 whole days without eating. I tried tough love and guess what, Avery won! He did not want what I was offering under any circumstance. So I caved and gave him something I knew he would eat, then we both suffered the consequences of canon butt for two days...


----------



## kevin bradley (Aug 9, 2009)

Jacksons Mom said:


> Honestly, sometimes regular vets aren't all that great in regards to dental care. I've heard of vets telling people their dogs teeth looked great/fine, and then they have adult teeth that fall off (happened to a friend of mine). Took the dog to the dental specialist and had to have, like, 5 teeth pulled.
> 
> At his age, I'd really wonder about teeth. Has he ever had a dental?


JM,

Yeah, Harry's had dentals. My Vet wasn't interested in any suggestion of teeth issues. He said his teeth looked good and he believes NO dog will get a decreased appetite due to a bad tooth.

Not saying I think this is right... because I have no clue. Most things I look up online DO indicate that teeth can impact appetite.


----------



## kevin bradley (Aug 9, 2009)

UPDATE...

Well, I followed Monsters advice(for the most part). No treats. No chicken breasts. Nothing. I am mixing just a bit of wet food in w/ his Kibble(Tim's).

He IS eating. But it is a mixed bag of behavior. He won't eat much of anything in the morning. 

I AM noticing some interesting behavior. Sunday night, he fiddled with his food and walked away from it. So I threw it into Murphy's bowl(one of my other guys). Harry shot over to Murphy's bowl and proceded to eat it. 

After he ate last night around 6... about 1/2 his food, I put the rest away. Then around 8pm, he went out to his bowl and started licking it like crazy. For over a minute, all I heard was the bowl rattling around. So I broke the rules and put the rest of his food into the bowl and he did eat it. So yesterday was probably his best eating day in awhile. He ate about 1 cup of Tim's food and some wet food mixed in. So I actually slept ok for one night. 

But this morning, he wasn't interested in much. So I'm back to a worried Dad. 

This sucks. Thanks for all the advice though, guys. I'm going to stick with the tough love thing for a bit.

Tim just sent me a message(thank you) re. a urinalysis. My Vet never asked for one. Just Xrays and blood work, as I said both came out fine. My Vet only said to "keep an eye on him and to watch his weight." That, and "you know, they don't live forever." Real nice thing to say to a concerned parent. I think he's still pissed at me for taking Harry to Michigan State last year when he kept licking his lips incessantly.

I'm NOT crazy. His eating habits ARE vastly different. He would nearly ALWAYS gobble up all his kibble immediately when I threw it into his bowl. This has become some type of cruel game.

I just pray something isn't REALLY wrong with him. I fear there is.


----------



## kevin bradley (Aug 9, 2009)

DaViking said:


> How old is he and is he intact?
> 
> edit: sorry, just saw that he is 10 years old. How many dogs do you got to feed? Something super palatable like Royal-Canin Mini or Mini Special might just be the ticket. Special is the better one IMO. Never mind it's called "mini" (I can hear the ingredient police sharpening their knifes right now, haha)



Thanks Vike. Harry is fixed if that is what you were asking. I have 3 Dogs including Harry.

That was my NEXT question... What is THE most appealing Dog food on the market(as if humans would know, but hell, I don't know...maybe someone has some information). 

Its funny, the LAST thing on my mind right now is being picky about brands of food. I never thought I'd say this but I'd probably feed him Old Roy right now if he would eat it. Probably not the best thing to say but you get it.


----------



## kevin bradley (Aug 9, 2009)

doggiedad said:


> keep looking for something he likes. try different kibbles. i top my dogs kibble
> with fresh meat, fish, can food, can fish (in water no salt added), salmon oil
> (human grade), organic yogurt, certain fruit, raw egg, whole egg (shell in oven,
> then grind it in the coffee maker and serve), raw 4oz ground beef pattie, etc.
> ...



thanks DD.

I have to be careful with Harry. For instance, if I add chunks of chicken into his kibble, he would fish the big chunks out and leave the kibble. 

To show you how smart and determined he is... when I've tried this... he will even fish out the big hunks of chicken and even if there are little bits mixed in w/ the kibble, he will just leave those. 

I know, really messed up.


----------



## DaViking (Sep 27, 2011)

kevin bradley said:


> Thanks Vike. Harry is fixed if that is what you were asking. I have 3 Dogs including Harry.
> 
> That was my NEXT question... What is THE most appealing Dog food on the market(as if humans would know, but hell, I don't know...maybe someone has some information).


Royal-Canin Mini and Mini Special (Mini Pro if you can get it) are some go to foods for picky eaters I have had success with. They work great for dogs with dental issues too because of their shape and density. Never seen a healthy dog turn them down. If there are underlying health issues all bets are off.


----------



## dr tim (Mar 27, 2011)

Cat food and cat poop always seems to please my house dogs.


----------



## InkedMarie (Sep 9, 2011)

dr tim said:


> Cat food and cat poop always seems to please my house dogs.


Ah, so this is why you taught us about Vitamin P on FB!


----------



## riddick4811 (Nov 2, 2011)

dr tim said:


> Cat food and cat poop always seems to please my house dogs.


Don't forget horse poop for the outdoorsy dogs! I was hiking with a friend one day and her Rat Terrier was up ahead just gobbling something down. I got there and it was a nice big pile of horse poop. I yelled at her and she grabbed a mouthful and ran with it! Then she had the nerve to try and lick me in the face later on!


----------



## riddick4811 (Nov 2, 2011)

kevin bradley said:


> Thanks Vike. Harry is fixed if that is what you were asking. I have 3 Dogs including Harry.
> 
> That was my NEXT question... What is THE most appealing Dog food on the market(as if humans would know, but hell, I don't know...maybe someone has some information).
> 
> Its funny, the LAST thing on my mind right now is being picky about brands of food. I never thought I'd say this but I'd probably feed him Old Roy right now if he would eat it. Probably not the best thing to say but you get it.


How is his weight? I will say hands down my dogs past and present love Pro Plan Performance the most of any kibble we have ever tried. We were at Petsmart the other day and a bag had spilled all over the floor and Joey thought he was in heaven! Might need to change his name to Dyson or Hoover!


----------



## Jacksons Mom (Jun 13, 2010)

Well, Jackson seems to think foods like Beneful are crack. lol. Whenever we visit friends houses who eat that, I have to keep shooing him away from the bowl, or ask if it's okay to pick it up while we're visiting. But he usually always gobbles up the "bad" foods (purina, iams, etc). I wouldn't recommend it (especially Beneful - gross). But Royal Canin wouldn't be a terrible option at all. I've heard most dogs LOVE it. It'd be worth a shot! 

I'm sorry you're going through this with Harry. It sucks when you can't exactly pinpoint it but you feel something may be wrong.

He's also never been in love with a food as much as his Fromm. He did gobble up Dr. Tim's sample so once we're done our bags of Fromm, my next Chewy order may include a small bag of Tims.


----------



## meggels (May 30, 2010)

Your vet sounds like a real jerk lol


----------



## SaharaNight Boxers (Jun 28, 2011)

Have you ever added tripe? It's definitely smelly and Duke goes nuts for it.


----------



## kevin bradley (Aug 9, 2009)

I've got Tripe on my list, guys. 

But he's at least eating now... albeit not great, he IS eating. 

So I am going to just stay consistent for the time being and leave things as is. He's far from normal Harry... but I guess I've got to give it some time.


----------



## July11 (Jul 7, 2011)

Kevin, I'm thinking that Harry would benefit greatly fro. m from some .Tellington T Touch body work. I have used it in several different situations and have always seen results. The belly lifts in conjunction with the basic circles just might help him, definitely won't hurt.

There are lots of articles and videos on the net that can help you get started. Might be worth a try

Sorry for the poor writing, etc. posting from a dag blasted droid!!!

Article - TTouch


----------



## kevin bradley (Aug 9, 2009)

I'm really concerned now. I just read recommendations for calories/day for a Dog Harry's size. Says he should be getting 1000 calories per day AND I used the lower indicator(less active)....

Christ, he's been getting maybe 1/3rd-1/2 of that per day for about a month.

Something isn't right. I'm basically starving my dog with no freaking answer in sight.


----------



## Sapphire-Light (Aug 8, 2010)

Do you suspect someone is feeding him something really tasty (like weiners, pizza, burgers, fried chicken, etc) while you are not looking? if this is then he might not interested in what you are feeding since he knows is not tasty as food for humans.

Are there wild birds near were you live? if he is eating the poop then he might have coccidia, my toy poodle had it two times, and he was refusing everything the days before he got very sick.


----------



## kevin bradley (Aug 9, 2009)

No, no one is feeding him Saph. 

Re. your second paragraph... Sure, we have all kinds of birds around. Mostly just run o' the mill birds... Robins, Blue Jays, Cardinals... and the array of wild birds you'd expect. 

But I have 2 other Dogs who are fine. And they EAT ANYTHING and EVERYTHING so I'd guess they'd have issues too..Maybe?


----------



## Sapphire-Light (Aug 8, 2010)

kevin bradley said:


> No, no one is feeding him Saph.
> 
> Re. your second paragraph... Sure, we have all kinds of birds around. Mostly just run o' the mill birds... Robins, Blue Jays, Cardinals... and the array of wild birds you'd expect.
> 
> But I have 2 other Dogs who are fine. And they EAT ANYTHING and EVERYTHING so I'd guess they'd have issues too..Maybe?



I see, maybe you can take a blood or a fecal exam from him.

My boy looked nice until he got really picky, he stayed 3 days without eating then he stared to have diarreah wit blood and puke bile and got hypoglycemic at night

It was a good thing I had syringes and gatoraid at hand since the vets from here aren't opened the 24 hours so we had to wait until the next morning, turns out he was infested wit coccidia, if it wasn't for the gatoraid he wouldn't have survived. 


A few months ago he had a similar case, not as hard... still life threatening but it he starved only for one day as I'm not going to let the previous case of 3 days without eating happening again.

*Edit to add* the poop wit coccidia (at least in my dog) was very soft, and looked like it had something sticky similar to bile and a very tiny yellow dots in it.


----------



## BearMurphy (Feb 29, 2012)

I second the canned tripett to mix into the dog food. no dog can resist that! i like to buy the lamb one to keep something canned on hand in case of emergencies

i didn't see your post from a few months ago but what is your dog's activity level before and after food issues? has anything changed in your home life?.....location, new person around, person gone, anything you can think of? is there anything you didn't test for like Tick borne diseases? 

all the picky dogs I've met were always being fed something else and maybe weren't too into their dog food in the first place. My dog is a pig and always has been so if it were me i'd be searching for medical issues too if this is completely abnormal behavior for Harry. hope he's just picky!


----------



## Goldens&Labs4Me (Sep 2, 2012)

I'm sorry you're having so much trouble, Kevin. I'd be worried sick--in fact, I have 10 year old as well, and I do. 

I would personally try anything he'd eat at this point--including kibble you may not be fond of personally. Eukanuba is one food my little dog (very picky eater) flips over, for example. 

One more thought--maybe it's the bowl? Could you try a different bowl? My little dog also stopped eating from her metal bowl, but now happily eats from a ceramic bowl. I know it's grasping, but hey, you never know. I hope he is okay--please keep us posted.


----------



## kevin bradley (Aug 9, 2009)

thanks guys. Yesterday was another awful day. Harry wouldn't eat anything.

He's had blood work, fecal tests, xrays, 2 trips to the Vet with visual examinations from the vet including teeth.

I'm near giving up now. Something is wrong. I'll just keep sticking his food out and watching him not eat it almost every day.


----------



## kathylcsw (Jul 31, 2011)

I am so sorry that you and Harry are going through this. It must be so hard to have to just watch him not eat and not be able to do much about it. I hope that he starts eating better soon.


----------



## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

Yeah, you are pretty tuned in with your dogs Kev. When you have the gut feeling something is not right, generally you are always correct. I don't know what else to suggest, except just give him what he will eat. I'm sorry, I read the thread but how long since the last bloodwork? Has he had a urinalysis?


----------



## kevin bradley (Aug 9, 2009)

thanks Penny.

Tim actually sent me a nice PM suggesting a Urinalysis. I called my Vet and he wasn't there. The Vet Tech or whatever she is said "Doctor would have ordered one already had he thought it necessary. But if it will make you feel better, we can do it." I think they are all still miffed at me for taking Harry to Michigan State last year when they couldn't give me answers on him always licking his lips.

His blood work was about 2 weeks ago. Fecal test was last week. Xrays were late last week(Friday). About all I have left is finding someone to do the urinalysis, continuing to try different foods(I have almost no faith in this but I'll go ahead and try just to check it off)... and continuing to just play tough love(not sure when to give that up). 


Just a real dark time right now. Harry is my boy. This is a Dog whose head shares my pillow every night. If its something horrific, I wish God would just stop messing with me. Its been going on long enough.


----------



## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

Was there anything at all out of kilter with his blood work? Do you have a copy, maybe if you posted it on here Dr Tim and/or some of the vet techs might have a look and see if they can find anything that looks dodgy. 
And, screw your vet, you get what tests you want done, they work for you, not the other way round. I get that attitude a bit from our vet techs and office staff, try to talk me out of things because it isn't normal procedure. Do you want me to call your vet for you? I'd be happy to! :boxing::biggrin:


----------



## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

Oh, I forgot. If you can, collect the first sample (of pee) of the morning. Put it in a steralised container (I boil mine in water), mark with the time and store in the fridge till you can get it to the vet. The fresher the better. You probably know this already, but it could be of info to someone else.


----------



## kevin bradley (Aug 9, 2009)

oh, thanks Penny. I'm not sure I have access to a scanner or whatever I would need. Maybe I could just type out the numbers. I know the blood work printed out on a type of graph with a "normal range" and all the readings fell into that area on the grid/graph.

Nah, you don't have to call them ... If I don't get the answers I want in the next week or less, I think I'm gonna take him up to Michigan State. They are really nice up there.


----------



## kevin bradley (Aug 9, 2009)

MollyWoppy said:


> Oh, I forgot. If you can, collect the first sample (of pee) of the morning. Put it in a steralised container (I boil mine in water), mark with the time and store in the fridge till you can get it to the vet. The fresher the better. You probably know this already, but it could be of info to someone else.


Thanks! Yeah, I did read that urine samples can get contaminated pretty easily. Tim mentioned that a good lab should be able to discern outside contamination but still good information. 

thank you


----------



## kevin bradley (Aug 9, 2009)

Ok, here are his bloodwork numbers. I have no clue what any of this is... so I will do my best to just regurgitate what is on the printout....
(the ones with a "ul" after the number... isn't really a U. more like a p without a roof)
WBC=9.51 K/uL
LYM=1.56 K/uL
MONO=1.5 K/uL
NEU=6.17 K/uL
EOS=.27 K/uL
BASO=.01 K/uL

%LYM=16.4%
%MONO=15.8%
%NEU=64.8%
%EOS=2.8%
%BASO=.1%
HCT=47%

RBC=6.7 M/ul
HGB=15.7 g/dl
RETIC=36.1 k/ul
%retic=.5%
MCV=70.1 fl
RDW=15.6%
MCHC=33.4 g/dL
MCH=23.4 pg
PLT=361 K/uL
MPV=9.1 fL

PCT=.33%
PDW=17.6%

ALB=2.7 g/dL
ALKP=58 U/L
ALT=10 U/L
AMYL=574 U/L
BUN=12 mg/dL
Ca=9.9 mg/dL
CHOL=205 mg/dL
CREA=1.1 mg/dL
GLOB=4 g/dL
GLU=89 mg/dL
PHOS=3.7 mg/dL
TBIL=.4 mg/dL
TP= 6.7 g/dL

thanks guys. If anyone sees anything that sticks out, would be much appreciated.


----------



## Herzo (Feb 5, 2011)

kevin bradley said:


> oh, thanks Penny. I'm not sure I have access to a scanner or whatever I would need. Maybe I could just type out the numbers. I know the blood work printed out on a type of graph with a "normal range" and all the readings fell into that area on the grid/graph.
> 
> Nah, you don't have to call them ... If I don't get the answers I want in the next week or less, I think I'm gonna take him up to Michigan State. They are really nice up there.


I'm going to have to agree with you. That's what I would do and if they get mad then to bad. You have taken him there enough with no answer they can't expect you not to get a second opinion.


----------



## monster'sdad (Jul 29, 2012)

Kevin,

Do you have family or friends that could watch him a few days? I am curious if he will eat in another place fed by another. My mother's dog is like that at home but not at my sisters.


----------



## riddick4811 (Nov 2, 2011)

monster'sdad said:


> Kevin,
> 
> Do you have family or friends that could watch him a few days? I am curious if he will eat in another place fed by another. My mother's dog is like that at home but not at my sisters.


That is a good idea. My Great Aunts Dalmatian was used to being able to pick at his food all day long at her house and he wouldn't eat unless she cooked for him and mixed over the kibble. At my house I put his food down, he looked at it and walked off. Went back later and it was gone, he was totally confused! We did this for a few days and then he ate it when I sat it down and never had another issue! Dogs act different for different people.


----------



## kevin bradley (Aug 9, 2009)

question guys....

I've read online that Dogs can only go about 5-6 days before organs start shuttting down and being impacted from anorexia. Is this something to be concerned with? I mean, he hasn't ate hardly anything for 48 hours now..... amazingly, he was interested mostly in my throwing the ball to him in the snow tonight when I got home from work. When I called the guys in and put food out, he spent about a minute at his bowl, head right in there..... I walked out of the room so as not to cause any stress. After he was done, I walked over to the bowl and didn't see much gone.... not sure what he was even doing at the bowl. 

Sorry about the constant rants. I'm seriously not making this up. Believe me, I'd rather be doing something else.

Re. the suggestion to get him out of the house... good idea but I don't have many places I could re-home him. Maybe. I've got a couple shots possibly.


----------



## BearMurphy (Feb 29, 2012)

maybe try leaving your house and have someone else feed him? if no change maybe try taking the other dogs with you and trying again

in my experience dogs tend to go off their food more easily when the owner is not around or when they are visiting somewhere else so it might not solve your issue but at this point it sounds like you are willing to try anything


----------



## riddick4811 (Nov 2, 2011)

Have you ever tried meat rolls like the one Natural Balance makes? My dogs have always loved them particularly the lamb. You can use a cheese grater and grate it over their food. 

Another suggestion- crush the dog food (ziplock bag and mallet works well) and mix with cooked chicken run through the processor to a pate like finish. 

Dry cat food maybe? Or even can cat food? Pongo prefers can cat food to dog food. It is smellier. 

How is his sense of smell? Had a friend's dog stop eating and he had a tumor up in his nose that was affecting his sense of smell.


----------



## InkedMarie (Sep 9, 2011)

I'm sorry this is still going on, Kevin. I would take him anywhere you want to, if a vet doesn't like that you go elsewhere for answers, I,d find a new vet. If you haven't, just show up with the urine and demand they run a UA. 
I assume you've tried various canned? Really hoping you get answers.


----------



## kevin bradley (Aug 9, 2009)

thanks IM(and anyone else who offerred tips).

My Vet was actually receptive to a UA so I'm gonna go on a Urine collecting mission tonight or in the morning(he said to try and get it in the morning if possible)...so I'm thankful he is going to to this. 

Never thought I'd PRAY for my Harry to have a UTI but I am actually hoping for it. At least it would give me some resolution on all of this and we could get him on some drugs. 

I'm guessing a UTI would cause a Dog to have really sporadic eating habits. Harry DOES have long hair around his genital area which I have read can cause issues... and he has been licking that area pretty frequently in the last week(that I've noticed). I might be grasping here but at least I have something to hope for. And Tim mentioned to me that UTI's can make them go thru these ups and downs of sporadic days of eating...

So everyone pray tonight for my dog to have a UTI


----------



## kevin bradley (Aug 9, 2009)

Oh yeah,

Wanted to mention... 

Thank you for all of the suggestions on how to make food more palatable for Harry. I appreciate it, I really do. But I just don't think thats it. Harry has actually turned his NOSE up to GROUND BEEF in the last month... which is almost laughable for him. Honest Kitchen/dehydrated food used to make him bust down the door to get at it. He sniffs it now and walks away. About all I KNOW he'll devour is cooked chicken on a consistent basis(though I haven't given him any lately as I've been sticking to just his food the last 3-4 days).

man I hope something comes up on this test.


----------



## Kassandra (Jun 6, 2012)

I feel bad for saying this but I honestly would be relieved for you if he has a UTI, and am kind of hoping that's what it is. I remember when I was really young, one of my dogs had a UTI and wouldn't eat for days on end, and when he would eat it was just enough to stop his belly from growling. So it very well could be a UTI (just remembered this story). 

I don't know how to make food more plateable.. Tried a few things nothing works for Charlie, if she doesn't want to eat there is NO getting her to eat. When Charlie was spayed, she wouldn't eat for a few days (side effect of the drugs she got, so the vet said). I drowned her food in gravy as usually she would do ANYTHING for a bit of gravy, but she would just lick it up, spit out the pieces of kibble. The kibble (which had been coated in gravy) was gravy-less. Wouldn't even eat her raw meals at the time (which she very, VERY rarely will turn down).

As for a dogs organs shutting down after 5-6 days from anorexia.. I don't think that would happen. Yes, it might put a bit of a strain on them but I don't think they would shut down.. especially if the dog is maintaining their weight (like you said he has been). 

I really, REALLY hope that this gets straightened out, and quick.. We all know how stressed out you are about this so lets hope for the best!


----------



## kevin bradley (Aug 9, 2009)

thanks Kassandra. 

Hey, don't feel bad. I WANT this to be a UTI. Not that its a good thing but at least its something that might be able to be treated. 

thanks for the support.


----------



## monster'sdad (Jul 29, 2012)

kevin bradley said:


> thanks Kassandra.
> 
> Hey, don't feel bad. I WANT this to be a UTI. Not that its a good thing but at least its something that might be able to be treated.
> 
> thanks for the support.


Kevin, drive up to the UP and let Tim put him in the kennel with his 35 dogs. I guaranty your pup eats.


----------



## kevin bradley (Aug 9, 2009)

that may be my next step, Monster 

I have an appt. at MSU next week. If nothing comes from the UA, I'll probably head there.

I appreciate your advice and direction towards something behavioral... Knowing Harry, I just don't think thats it. Something is off. I'm not 100% sure, maybe 80-90% confident.


----------



## kevin bradley (Aug 9, 2009)

well, UA came back pristine this morning.

Never thought I'd be so dissapointed in a good urinalysis.

Vet was actually really impressed with how clean it was...whatever that means. Said protein levels or something were outstanding. (not a clue what that means but I guess its good).

Harry had his best eating day in awhile yesterday. This morning wasn't good... but I had him traumatized over the urine collection I think.


----------



## InkedMarie (Sep 9, 2011)

Well crap, I wanted to see bad stuff in his UA. What are you going to do now Kevin?


----------



## kevin bradley (Aug 9, 2009)

IM,

Honestly, I don't know. Like I said, yesterday was a pretty good eating day for Harry. He ate 2 pretty good(well, pretty good is relative but now, they were good) meals of kibble mixed with some canned food. 

I have an appt at Michigan State next week... not sure if I'll keep it. Probably depends on how Harry does the next few days. If things get worse, I'll definitely be going there.

its just hard to know what to do. I hate to drag him up there, pay $1000 for tests that tell me nothing... Certainly not that I won't spend the money. I just feel like nothing will get answered.


----------



## Herzo (Feb 5, 2011)

Kevin I really feel for ya, wish I had an answer. Can't say I blame you for not wanting to spend the money and perhaps not finding an answer. I'll try and think good thoughts and maybe it will help.


----------



## monster'sdad (Jul 29, 2012)

kevin bradley said:


> IM,
> 
> Honestly, I don't know. Like I said, yesterday was a pretty good eating day for Harry. He ate 2 pretty good(well, pretty good is relative but now, they were good) meals of kibble mixed with some canned food.
> 
> ...


Ignore Harry when he doesn't eat, don't get emotional and stop adding stuff to his food.


----------



## Jacksons Mom (Jun 13, 2010)

monster'sdad said:


> Ignore Harry when he doesn't eat, don't get emotional and stop adding stuff to his food.


Normally I would agree, but I don't think it's always so simple. When an older dog, who used to not be this way ... becomes this way, I think it's worrisome. One of the first things to look out for when a dog is not feeling well is lack of an appetite. I know if Jackson suddenly refused canned food, or roast beef, or something yummy, I'd be *extremely* concerned. As he's a huge begger and will pretty much scarf down anything you're willing to throw him. So I don't blame Kevin one bit for being concerned.

However, my dads dog, Lilly, is super picky (admittedly, the humans made her that way). She has never liked red meat, so you can throw a steak at her, or roast beef, etc, she will stare at it, sniff it forever.... chicken, she LOVES. Cheese she is obsessed with. But it's not odd for her to turn down what is usually considered high value food to dogs. So with her, I wouldn't be worried. But it doesn't sound like Harry was like this.


----------



## kevin bradley (Aug 9, 2009)

I'm going to MSU tommorrow. Its been an awful last few days. Harry is even beginning to look more lethargic which is frightening.

I know what Monster is saying but I know my Dog and something is wrong. Not saying he's wrong for certain... I'm sure picky eaters exist and it can be a real problem. 

I'm preparing myself for really bad news up there. If you guys don't hear from me for a few days, I'm sorry.

Say a prayer for him if you believe in that stuff. thanks everyone.


----------



## Herzo (Feb 5, 2011)

Will be thinking of you and hope you find something out. It sure does sound to me like there is something wrong. We will be waiting for an update.


----------



## kathylcsw (Jul 31, 2011)

I hope that they can find out what is going on and that is easily fixed. Will keep you and Harry in my thoughts.


----------



## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

All paws and fingers crossed in this house for you and Harry. All the best luck in the world. You are taking him to one of the best places in the States, so I've been told, so you are doing everything you can for him. Hopefully it's something easily fixed, but I'm glad you listened to your heart. 
Take care Kevin. I love how you adore your dogs so much.


----------



## Jacksons Mom (Jun 13, 2010)

((((Vibes)))))


----------



## Goldens&Labs4Me (Sep 2, 2012)

Prayers for Harry--and you.


----------



## InkedMarie (Sep 9, 2011)

I do pray and will continue. Update us when you can, we're all here for you.


----------

