# Abby Tested Positive For Neospora



## Mandy (Aug 30, 2012)

Abby's vet just called with her fecal test results. She tested positive for Neospora which she says is from raw beef. She's going to give us Alabon to treat it. Now I'm freaking out once again. Do I keep her on raw or switch her to kibble? Off to do some research.


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## lauren43 (Feb 6, 2011)

How old is Abby? Is she showing any symptoms?


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## Mandy (Aug 30, 2012)

She is 8 months. All was well until this past Sunday when she threw up her dinner. Monday she was fine. Tuesday she threw up her dinner again. She's also had loose/runny stools.


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## lovemydogsalways (Mar 4, 2012)

This makes me nervous as a raw noob.
I need to read more on it.


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## Sheltielover25 (Jan 18, 2011)

Mandy said:


> Abby's vet just called with her fecal test results. She tested positive for Neospora which she says is from raw beef. She's going to give us Alabon to treat it. Now I'm freaking out once again. Do I keep her on raw or switch her to kibble? Off to do some research.


Have you read about what Neospora is? I mean, is she having any neurological issues? I don't think that sounds right.....not sure how vomiting/diarrhea translates into neurological symptoms?

http://bearscampnewfs.com/health/Waltham Center/Canine Neosporosis.pdf

I mean is he worried about how serious this is?? Since only 50% of dogs fully recover I'm curious why this does isn't sicker/confined? I don't even see Alabon as a treatment nor do I see it being able to be diagnosed as easy as this.


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

This is a form of coccidia and usually passed from dam to puppies. I would get a blood test done as a fecal is not very conclusive for something this serious. I honestly would take in another fecal to a different vet and get bloodwork done elsewhere also for a second opinion. If she really has this it can be very serious and blood work or spinal draw is what I would trust to diagnose this. Fecal will show if she just has coccidia which from her symptoms sounds more like it.


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## Sheltielover25 (Jan 18, 2011)

Liz said:


> This is a form of coccidia and usually passed from dam to puppies. I would get a blood test done as a fecal is not very conclusive for something this serious. I honestly would take in another fecal to a different vet and get bloodwork done elsewhere also for a second opinion. If she really has this it can be very serious and blood work or spinal draw is what I would trust to diagnose this. Fecal will show if she just has coccidia which from her symptoms sounds more like it.


Yeah, and don't mention you feed raw meat. These vets!:suspicious: I wouldn't play around, though, as it sounds very serious and horrible should that be it.


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## Mandy (Aug 30, 2012)

Trust me, I knew nothing about this parasite until tonight. Doing the reading I am seeing where a blood test and/or spinal tap should be done, but I did see a few spots where it was detected in fecals. I also didn't see Alabon listed as treatment though so I'm questioning that one. 

She is not showing any neuro or physical symptoms. I was wondering though, if she was sick from something else and we tested and then it came back positive for this, would it be possible it's in the very early stages and that's why she's not showing these signs?

I'll be calling the vet back tomorrow to talk to them.


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## Mandy (Aug 30, 2012)

I actually have a vet right down the road so I'll call them tomorrow to see if I can drop a sample off. Most vets my way insist on seeing the animal before doing anything. We'll see what they say.


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

As I said it is probably coccidia they are getting hits on but because you feed raw jump to the worst conclusions. Plus this med is not an optimal treatment for coccidia or neosporosis. Please do further testing to be 100% positive. Do you purchase your own meats or do you feed pre packaged raw?


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## Mandy (Aug 30, 2012)

Do you know how these test results come back? I'm asking because wouldn't it list out the possible parasites with a check next to it or something? In other words, would the test result be definitive for neospora or would it just be a general type of parasite?

I buy my own meats and package it by meals. This is my 2nd month of doing this from my supplier and this is the first problem. If it is coccidia, how would she have picked that up?

I will be doing all the testing needed to get to the bottom of this. I have to.


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## Sheltielover25 (Jan 18, 2011)

Mandy said:


> Trust me, I knew nothing about this parasite until tonight. Doing the reading I am seeing where a blood test and/or spinal tap should be done, but I did see a few spots where it was detected in fecals. I also didn't see Alabon listed as treatment though so I'm questioning that one.
> 
> She is not showing any neuro or physical symptoms. I was wondering though, if she was sick from something else and we tested and then it came back positive for this, would it be possible it's in the very early stages and that's why she's not showing these signs?
> 
> I'll be calling the vet back tomorrow to talk to them.


Good luck! I'm sure you are scared inside so sending you all the good vibes!

I'm leaning towards what Liz said and the vet is jumping to the wrong conclusion. I find it odd they're not being more aggressive actually because from what I read, if your pup had that, it would be very, very serious.

I would try not to let your mind get carried away with what ifs and just get another opinion


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

Coccidia can be picked up many ways from squirrels to bird droppings. I had a friend whose litter got coccidia three times. The birds flying through her backyard would leave droppings in the water dish and the pups kept getting reinfected. 

Since it seems you have a reputable supplier I would jump the gun. If you had received maybe a stillborn calf and fed that or a calf that died suddenly I would be more apt to go with Neosporosis but that doesn't sound like what you have been feeding. Try to breathe deep and get the bloodtest done so you know exactly where you stand. Also, check on that medication, it just doesn't seem right. Much as I hate it Clindamycin is probably a better option though we deal with giardia and coccidia holistically.


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## Sheltielover25 (Jan 18, 2011)

Liz said:


> Coccidia can be picked up many ways from squirrels to bird droppings. I had a friend whose litter got coccidia three times. The birds flying through her backyard would leave droppings in the water dish and the pups kept getting reinfected.
> 
> Since it seems you have a reputable supplier I would jump the gun. If you had received maybe a stillborn calf and fed that or a calf that died suddenly I would be more apt to go with Neosporosis but that doesn't sound like what you have been feeding. Try to breathe deep and get the bloodtest done so you know exactly where you stand. Also, check on that medication, it just doesn't seem right. Much as I hate it Clindamycin is probably a better option though we deal with giardia and coccidia holistically.


I'm curious. We have a lot of squirrels and birds in the trees in the backyard so I'm assuming there is poop, too -- does any dog who comes into contact with infected feces pick this up or would say, a dog with a really healthy gut, have enough beneficial bacteria to overcome it? I'm wondering if I have to worry about it due to the abundance of creatures in our yard. (any day now my high prey drive girl is going to get one, too! LOL)


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## Mandy (Aug 30, 2012)

We live in the country and have tons of grey squirrels, some red squirrels, flying squirrels, raccoons, fisher cats, turkey, and deer that pass through our yard. Not to mention the TONS of birds.


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

I have seen it most in young puppies and senior so I am going to say a more delicate or compromised immune system is going to be susceptible. I rarely see it in young or very healthy dogs.


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## Sheltielover25 (Jan 18, 2011)

Liz said:


> I have seen it most in young puppies and senior so I am going to say a more delicate or compromised immune system is going to be susceptible. I rarely see it in young or very healthy dogs.


I'm reading a book right now that talks about how parasites like these are really symptoms and not the true problem. As in restoring the gut, the foundation of it all, is the key in the long-run and then keep it restored. It's very interesting all these common things we get that are labeled as diseases but usually just represent something is taking the energy away from the body and then the body starts to suffer and displays signs, yeast and overgrowth of bacteria. Any way, best of luck, OP! I'm sure it's going to be fine! Sounds like that is one lucky dog to have a mom who takes such quick actions! -- keep us updated,


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## shellbell (Sep 24, 2011)

I was just googling this b/c I have never heard the term “Neospora” before. It sounds very similar to toxoplasmosis that cats can carry. The primary means of transmission for both of these involves poop. Infection can occur by ingesting the spores that are present in feces from other animals that are carriers. I clicked on a number of links that came up from my google search, and none of them mentioned anything about eating raw meat as a means of transmission, or that there were any documented cases of this being the cause. And it did also talk about the transmission from mother to fetus in livestock. If this was a big problem for raw feeders, I would have heard of it by now as much as I read. And my google search alone that I did just now would have turned up something. My dogs LOVE to eat poop. If you live in an area with lots of wildlife, I am sure she picked it up that way. I don’t think it takes much to be ingested, even if she got it on her feet or something and licked it. 

I am super paranoid when it comes to my dogs, and hearing about this does not make me feel any different for feeding raw. I’m sure your vet was just eager to blame raw meat as the cause. But I don’t blame you for this making you feel nervous, especially since you are new to feeding raw. Definitely do your research and make sure you are comfortable. Do you have a holistic vet where you live? Might help to talk to them too.


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## Mandy (Aug 30, 2012)

I'm at work right now so I can't look for holistic vets right now, but will look into it tonight. That's a good idea. I do have a LOT of wildlife in my area and her favorite playing spot happens to be under our bird feeder. Putting two and two together here. Under the bird feeder = lots of bird poop. Maybe we need to try to keep her occupied elsewhere, but even still we have birds and all kinds of other critters who visit our yard so she could've picked anything up anywhere.

I did call my vets office this morning, but had to leave a message to have the Dr call me. I also found another vet who will run her fecal through for me. I did not tell them anything about feeding raw and if they ask what she's eating I'm going to lie and say Iams or something just so they won't jump to raw being the problem. I also did not tell them what her first fecal showed. I told them I didn't want to say and that I just wanted a 2nd opinion to see what they come up with.

I'll let you know what happens.


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## Sheltielover25 (Jan 18, 2011)

I found this article that was informative: An Overview of Neospora Canium and Raw Food Diets

It is definitely passed on through cattle and through eating raw meat of infected cattle. This article states 80% of cattle test positive for this said parasite so it seems like it's more a matter of is your dog immune compromised? Because if so, you might think twice before feeding them beef. The majority, almost all, cases have actually been in puppies/dogs under a year. ..But the OP's dog sounds healthy and I think this is a misunderstanding. 

I would have probably thought twice feeding my senior foster dog raw beef from the store looking back on it had I known this. Luckily, we had a co-op at the time and it was from a traceable source at least. I really think this is just a vet jumping the gun because you feed raw beef not understanding how common the parasite is and that most likely, freezing would have killed it off.


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## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

Another thing, do other raw feeders buy their meat from your supplier? If so, there would be more than one dog with problems wouldn't there. Good on you for not panicking, getting a second opinion like you are doing is exactly what I would do too. Good luck.


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## Sheltielover25 (Jan 18, 2011)

MollyWoppy said:


> Another thing, do other raw feeders buy their meat from your supplier? If so, there would be more than one dog with problems wouldn't there. Good on you for not panicking, getting a second opinion like you are doing is exactly what I would do too. Good luck.


From what I'm gathering, most beef are affected by this parasite. It's debatable about the freezing killing because there is an instance when freezing happened and it survived -- so you can't say for sure it kills the parasite, but the consensus for the majority is freezing would destroy it. Even if it didn't freeze it, and animal with the correct gut flora and bacteria balance would be able to handle to invasion and not get overtaken by it. However, younger/immune compromised pets may not have as good of a gut balance going on and the bad might be able to take over. 

No one realizes this host of living organisms going on in our belly and how important it is to keep them balanced and the only way to do that is through proper health (nutrition being the big one) The vet probably has no understanding of this idea and saw raw meat=parasites. I wish they'd study nutrition and learn that feeding a correct diet is going to put the animal's body in the healthiest state, allowing for everything to digest and nothing to ferment in the stomach, and in return making their chance of catching parasites very rare because *gasp* the body is in working order and works as it should. Rare to find that in human/animal these days with the this awful processed "food" that is so prevalent. I'm in the process of determining some health issues I have going on and it all relates back to my gut. Eating processed foods all through childhood and up until my mid-20s is finally catching up with me and let's say the gut isn't happy. But according to how some people "think" since I'm skinny, I must be healthy, right? Uhh, try my body isn't absorbing what I'm giving it because it's too messed up from all the inflammation it's had over the years from all the artificial carbs/sugars I've eaten.


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## Mandy (Aug 30, 2012)

My vet.. the GOOD vet.. just called. Now I'm livid!!!!!!! 

She asked how Abby's doing. I told her she had a loose stool yesterday afternoon, but that late yesterday and today it was firming up. She asked if she was still vomiting, I told her she has not. She's been keeping everything down. Then she asked me if I had questions. 

Here we go....

I told her the vet who say Abby told me that she tested positive for neospora. Her response was that her fecal showed a couple of oocysts, but that they could NOT positively identify them as neospora. She said it could be neospora, it could be coccidia, it could be toxoplasmosis, or it could be none of them. It could be something completely harmless. She said herself that the vomiting and loose stools is not indicitive of neospora so she's not too concerned about that at this time. 

Since Abby's stools are firming up and she's not throwing up anymore she feels that the Albon should take care of whatever it is. She said if Abby were her dog, she wouldn't be too worried about this yet. If symptoms come back though or if she starts showing neurlogical issues or problems with her legs she's going to want to do further testing.

So, this new vet who I'm now dead set against seeing, tells me that she tested positive for something as serious as neospora when they really couldn't even positively identify that's what it was in the first place! Needless to say any further trips to the vet I'll be requesting to see the vet I just spoke to. I trust her a hell of a lot more than this new one!

Based on what this vet said, I'm thinking of holding off on getting the bloodwork done until her treatment is over and if she's still having issues I'll definitely get it done. Would you wait to get the bloodwork done based on all of this? 

Now hopefully my blood pressure will come back down.


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## Sheltielover25 (Jan 18, 2011)

Mandy said:


> My vet.. the GOOD vet.. just called. Now I'm livid!!!!!!!
> 
> She asked how Abby's doing. I told her she had a loose stool yesterday afternoon, but that late yesterday and today it was firming up. She asked if she was still vomiting, I told her she has not. She's been keeping everything down. Then she asked me if I had questions.
> 
> ...


Yes, I'd wait. I'd definitely wait. There's no reason, other than that stupid vet, you'd even be thinking about this! That vet just heard raw meat and jumped the gun-- like most do. 

I'm so happy to hear you're able to calm down a bit. These damn vets take years off our lives! I remember going in with my dog who was throwing up and shaking and they had me thinking she was dying! Turns out she wasn't even dehyrated (of course they automatically wanted to to IV fluids but upon me insisting the inspect her first, they saw it wasn't needed) They're doing blood and telling me she's so sick. All the blood is normal, go back home, two days later she's fine. Um, she had the flu? Most likely got it from some foster pups shedding one of their vaccines! This is why I will do everything in my power to only use homeopathic doctors now -- for myself and my animals.


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## shellbell (Sep 24, 2011)

Omg, I would be livid too. But relieved to know that the good vet does not think it is as serious as it was first made out to be. Just goes to show how important it is to get other professional opinions on things, and not rely on just one vet’s interpretation when it is something potentially serious.

Take this with a grain of salt, since parasitic infections are really not something I’m up to speed on…but I think I would still do bloodwork. I would not do something as invasive as a spinal tap at this point, but if there is a blood test that can be ran, I would go ahead and do it if you can afford it. For peace of mind, and if things do change with her symptoms in a couple months, you will have something of a baseline to look at from when she was showing her initial symptoms. That is what I did with Cabo’s tick disease, he tested positive for ehrlichiosis and was not showing any symptoms, but I still got bloodwork done so that I can recheck it in six months and compare. Not sure if the same type of thinking would apply to this situation….


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## Mandy (Aug 30, 2012)

After much thought I've decided to wait until after her treatment AND after the 2nd opinion from the other vet on her fecal. If she were still showing signs of sickness I'd go forward with the test, but she's done a complete 180. She's been very active the past couple of days. Almost as if she's trying to make up for lost time from when she was sick. She's also keeping her food down. The only problem still lingering right now is her stools are still a bit softer than they usually are. I'm going to keep monitoring things closely and if something changes for the worst the blood test will get done pronto!


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## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

Yeah, I've been debating what I would do if I were in your position. But, if my pup was acting totally normal (except for a soft poop), I don't think I'd get a blood test done unless I was rolling in money. Like you say, keep a very close eye on her and if you have any doubts whatsoever, get one done, otherwise it sounds like she's well on the mend.
Which, I may add, makes me very happy for you. I would be rather annoyed myself with the first vet putting the wind up you like that.


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## FBarnes (Feb 17, 2013)

Isn't it funny how with some vets it HAS the be the raw food - HAS to. Even if they have no proof, and know in their heart it's unlikely. But it HAS to be the raw food so... they tell you it's some awful thing gotten from raw food. Bingo. That makes it so, even if it's not.


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## Felix (Oct 9, 2012)

Mandy said:


> Do you know how these test results come back? I'm asking because wouldn't it list out the possible parasites with a check next to it or something? In other words, would the test result be definitive for neospora or would it just be a general type of parasite?
> 
> I buy my own meats and package it by meals. This is my 2nd month of doing this from my supplier and this is the first problem. If it is coccidia, how would she have picked that up?
> 
> I will be doing all the testing needed to get to the bottom of this. I have to.


Fecal samples are usually done in house and a sample of the poop gets deposited into a tube, filled with a glucose/water solution, shaken up and the slide pressed onto the top. This slide is what is looked at under the microscope for eggs. Usually that is the only thing that can be seen. Then a Vet tech analyzes the eggs/cells to determine which parasite is causing a problem (looks it up in a book with pictures of worms/parasites). There is no "check off sheet" or machine to put it through it's all done by hand. So, needless to say, there can be errors in diagnosis.


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## Mandy (Aug 30, 2012)

Thanks. I'm heading out in a few minutes to pick up the meds they want to put her on. I'm hoping to get a copy of her test results too. I just have to remember to ask. I want to see that that piece of paper says!


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## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

Thats what I do, get a copy of every single blood test and urinalysis and keep them in a folder. That way they are there for future reference should anything go wrong, plus I don't have to put all my trust in the vet noticing any trends that indicate something may be going wrong. I do the same for the humans in this house too.


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## Mandy (Aug 30, 2012)

Abby's report says that she had Neospora like coccidian oocysts. It also says that it MAY be Neospora or another non-pathogen coccidia. I'm attaching a copy of the important part of her report so you can see. 

The 2nd opinion on her fecal was actually done very quickly too. I dropped it off at about 10am and they just called me with the results. They said it's coccidia. Since they told me what they found, I told them that I was told it was Neospora by my vet. She said it's definitely coccidia and she also agrees that coccidia should be treated with Albon which is what my vet gave me.

I find it very curious that the vet who sent me into a panic said it's Neospora, but then goes and gives me the meds to treat coccidia. To me, it certainly looks like she felt deep down it was coccidia, but maybe she was trying to make me reconsider the whole raw thing which is not a happening thing now. 

This whole thing is really eating at me. I've been going to this vet for 26 years now and they've been nothing but awesome, but then again this particular vet is new to this hospital as of 7/2012. I'm not going to let this one incident deter me from going there again as long as I get to see the vet who's been there from the beginning. If for some reason I have another episode with this new vet I may have to think about finding a new vet.


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## Herzo (Feb 5, 2011)

Why just why do some of them have to be such a pain in the tush? Well I'm glad you found out what it is and you can get rid of it.


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

What a shitty vet to scare you half to death for no good reason.


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## Mandy (Aug 30, 2012)

Yes, I'm very thankful that this should be an easy fix. You'd never know she had anything wrong with her now. She's eating well, keeping it all down, no more loose stools, and her energy level and spunk are back to normal. It's so nice having her back!

As furious as I still am over this new vet I am seeing the positive in all of this now. For one thing, I'd never even heard of Neospora before this so I've learned quite a bit about that. I now know that this can be caused by raw beef, BUT freezing the beef will kill it. So, going forward I've decided that any and all meats my guys get will be frozen first. I typically followed that rule anyway, but I know I've given them fresh beef on a couple of ocassions just because I ran out and had to run to store to buy something. No more of that! My new method of prepacking meats doesn't really allow for that anyway. I bag up individual meal sized portions to last a fulll month. I even lable them by day.

To think, I was on the verge of tossing all my meats out and going back to kibble over this. What's even scarier is that after I did quite a bit of research on Neospora the night I got this phone call, I went onto Facebook for a little bit. The first thing in my news feed was about another dog food recall. It seems that there are downsides to both methods of feeding, but I'm convinced that raw is better, healthier, and even after all of this SAFER.


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

I'm so glad everything is Ok. Although this can come from raw beef, I don't think it's something that happens often at all or there would be lots more incidents like this. Good to know raw wasn't the cause in this case either.


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## Mandy (Aug 30, 2012)

Oh, I know it's probably very rare. As I said I've never even heard of neospora before this. If this was common there surely would be more reported incidents. All I know is having been through this scare I'm not taking any chances. All meats will be frozen first. Can't hurt to be too cautious right?!


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