# Raw feeding disaster. Thought my dogs were dying!



## Lab Lover (Jul 1, 2010)

I was at a pet stores CA Day and won 6 free bags of Natures Variety Raw Medalions. I selected the venison flavor and started to slowy incorporate in into my two Labs diet. 

Of course the dogs loved the raw meat but I did it slowly over a week. The first wek their stools were way looser than normal even thought I was only giving 25% raw and slowly working up. I was told by the 7th day that I should be 100% on the new food.

Sunday was the 7th day and I def my dogs their first full meal of raw only. They both had horrible gas and loose stools. By Wed both of my Labs were throwing up violently and pooping pure liquid and having horrible accidents in my home. I thought they were dying. On Wed both refused food for the first time ever in theor lives so I took them to our Vet and got them off that food right away. The vet seemed to think they had some sort of food poisoning.

I did not feed them on Thursday and fed them only small amounts of white rice and boiled chicken. on Friday and Sat. They still had some bouts of waterey stool but looked in better condition. 

On Sunday I bought a bag of Pinnacle Trout and Sweet Potato which I had been using and they dogs do great on.

NEVER AGAIN will I give them raw food. It cost me over 300 at the vets for all the tests so it was expensive free food.

I thought I was going to lose my precious Labs.


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## BrownieM (Aug 30, 2010)

I fed NV raw medallions for a while and did not have those problems. I started by feeding my standard poodles 2 medallions (that is only 2 oz. of raw!) in the morning and then kibble at dinner. I very gradually (WAY longer than a week) built up the amount of raw they were eating. 

I have never had the experience of successfully switching my dog to another type of food in just one week. When I switched kibbles I always had to spend at least 3-4 weeks or else Millie got horrendous problems. Since NV raw has a cocktail of ingredients, just like kibble does, it does not surprise me that you were not able to successfully switch them in a week.

Also, were you feeding the NV medallions with the kibble? That can cause digestive problems for many dogs. (It did not for my dogs - but I _have_ heard bad things). Finally, there are many ingredients in NV raw that could have irritated your dog. That is why many people prefer to stay away from pre-made raw diets. With a homemade raw diet, you could control the ingredients fed to your dog.


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## Jodysmom (Jan 9, 2010)

I agree with what Brownie said. I stay away from premade raw meat mixes too. By introducing raw meat slowly...one protein at a time you can really tell how they are adjusting to the protein, fat etc. By giving them the medallion you have no control over what you are giving them and you won't know why their stools are loose. 

I am not surprised your dogs had that reaction. Take a look at the ingredient list...lots of ingredients. When I started Jody on raw food I gave her plain chicken. Then slowly I left the fat on and then a couple of weeks later I added turkey and so on. 

I think your dogs reaction wasn't to raw meat but to a "premade raw meat mix". 

My first time I switched Jody to raw meat I added way too much variety and had a similar reaction. The second time I was much wiser and really sought the advice of people on this forum. It has been 4 months now and Jody hasn't had 1 instance of loose stool.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

I'm sorry your first experience with "raw" food was so terrible and your dogs got sick. I dont trust any commercially made diets out there so it could have been a food poisoning issue or a particular ingredient. But I will also agree with the others that you transitioned your dogs WAY...WAY...WAY too fast, and to a very rich food (venison). I sure hope you don't let this get in the way of even the possibility of you feeding a real raw diet or raw meaty bones like dogs are meant to eat.


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

Wow, that sounds like a really awful experience. 
I see a few reasons that you probably had a tough time, though. 

1. Venison is an incredibly rich meat, and any dog that is not used to eating both raw meat, AND venison, is gong to need a very slow transition to it. Generally with raw feeding, you have best success starting with much more mild foods, like chicken, or sometimes turkey, but not with any red meat at first, let alone venison. I would not recommend feeding venison until your dog is doing well on chicken, fish, pork, and beef. Only then would I start adding game meats into the diet. 


2. Mixing kibble and raw is almost begging for digestive upset. They are two entirely different things, with different digestion rates. I recommend feeding one OR the other, but not both. ranted some dogs do just fine on mixing the two, more often than not, raw transition horror stories involve this combo. 


3. Pre made diets have a lot of other ingredients in them, and are terribly lacking in bone content to be an ideal tool in transitioning, in my opinion. Let's take a look at NV Venison medallions:

Venison, Lamb Heart, Lamb Liver, Raw Ground Lamb Bone, Apples, Carrots, Pumpkinseeds, Butternut Squash, Ground Flaxseeds, Montmorillonite Clay, Chicken Eggs, Broccoli, Lettuce, Spinach, Dried Kelp, Apple Cider Vinegar, Parsley, Honey, Salmon Oil, Olive Oil, Blueberries, Alfalfa Sprouts, Persimmons, Duck Eggs, Pheasant Eggs, Quail Eggs, Inulin, Rosemary, Sage, Clove

The second ingredient is *heart,* which while technically is not an organ, is kind of fed as such as it is so incredibly rich. The third is* liver*, which is an organ. Generally, in a raw feeding program, you don't want to add organs into the diet until about two or so months after starting, and that's IF all other things have been handled well. These two ingredients surely outweigh the amount of venison meat in this formula, therefore making it primarily organ, or heart, still just as rich. 
*Next is ground lamb bone*. That's great and all, as bone is a stool binder, but all that liver kind of killed that one. Moving on. 
*Apples, carrots:* very sugary, and while downright unnessary, they are prime examples of ingredients that can not only do no good, but also cause harm. I'd avoid sugary ingredients. 
Pumpkin seeds, butternut squash- meh, more unnecessary ingredients. 
*Ground Flaxseeds.* This is where I was really going with this. Flax is a bowl irritant in dogs, and becoming more and more of a common allergen. I'd avoid foods with this ingredient like the plague. 
Lots of egg, LOTS of veggies, and I' not even going to touch on the Honey. Honey, really? Honey?!

4. Pre made raw diets are what I think of as "raw kibble." They're raw, so I guess fall in the category of a raw diet, but when I think of an ideal, raw, good-for-your-pet, bursting-with-benefits diet, these funky little medallions, loaded with plant matter and digestive irritants do not even begin to cross my mind. 

5. A one week transition is what NV recommends? Holy cow. I knew commercial pet food were absolutely stupid... but really?! one week? Venison? Wow. That is an awfully quick transition for any method of feeding, but I'd say it's rushed by about a month going from kibble to pre made raw. Yikes 


6. I feed PMR to my dogs, but I use medallions, (primal and NV) as treats for my girls every now and then. Annie ate 3 Whole Mackeral for breakfast one day. Did fine. Same thing for dinner that night. Only, that night I gave her two duck medallions after her bath. (ETA: I feed raw whole duck on a regular basis, PMR style)
10 minutes later, I had 3 partially digested mackerel puked all over my bed. 
I no longer have a comforter. 

It is entirely understandable why you want to give up raw feeding altogether, sounds like a very traumatic experience for you. I had an eqully terrifying experience with my Corgi on kibble- only... his lasted 8 months, rather than a couple days- and PMR was the only thing to give him any kind of relief or quality of life. 
I hope that you find what works best for your dogs, and that you understand the difference between a species-appropriate raw diet, and a commercially-prepared raw diet for dogs, cats, and ferrets. They really can't be compared.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

***Round of applause for Linsey***


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## jjcj (Nov 26, 2010)

I jumped into raw with both feet and feed real raw meat not prepackaged and have had great experience my reasoning for going raw was i bought Mandy natures Variety instinct Salmon and she reacted so bad after 3 days her skin looked like raw meat she was red raw and bleading. A month into raw she has no sores her fur is getting thicker and i have a much happier dog.

Raw and kibble never mix as far as i am concerned


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## Doc (Jan 17, 2009)

When in doubt - CHICKEN BACKS


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## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

That's why I don't like premade raw.. so many ingredients, and you can't control the percentage of bone that goes in it. Also any food designated for pets tends not to be the same quality as what you get with human food.. so in my opinion prey model raw is the way to go.

As other people have said, mixing raw and kibble is terrible - my dog recently ate some of the food by accident of the dog I am dogsitting for a friend - and had TERRIBLE vomiting, diarrhea for a whole night.

I don't think it's fair to blame raw food in general - what do you think wild dogs eat? Not kibble!


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

I wonder how these labs are doing?


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## SamWu1 (Oct 15, 2010)

With all due respect, the same exact thing would happen if you take a dog that's been raw fed all his life and to switch them to kibble.

The results may be even worse, having eaten a diet that his system was equipped to digest all his life to something completely foreign to his organs.


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## Pheebs (Dec 8, 2010)

I did the same mistake, mixing the kibble with raw food, it was a major disaster.
She was vomiting, bad diarrhea, no energy, she was just sleeping all the time.
I fast her 24h, and back to kibble, she was ok after.
She will finish the kibble bag first and after we start with only raw food.

My very best to your dogs!
Hope they feeling better!


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## Jackielyn (May 27, 2009)

Sometimes I wander if people just post to get a rise of out people 

Hope the labs are recovering well!


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## hcdoxies (Sep 22, 2010)

Jackielyn said:


> Sometimes I wander if people just post to get a rise of out people
> 
> Hope the labs are recovering well!


This is exactly what my thoughts were... They just posted to make PMR look bad. Notice how they haven't showed up again?

But, I also hope the labs have recovered


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## channeledbymodem (Dec 25, 2008)

FWIW, I have had a completely positive experience with NV raw. My 18 lb terrier mutt Benji started on NV about 3 months ago and his stools, which have always been rather soft on kibble, canned and homemade, are firmer and smaller than they've ever been. 

I feed 1/4 cup of kibble in the AM (these days Holistic Select Small Breed) and in the evening either NV or canned. I feed NV four days in a row, rotating chicken, beef and lamb each week. The next four days I feed 1/4 can of Whole Earth Farms. 

Never had a single problem with this routine and I know from indigestion. I fed as described from day one and never deviated (I do "phase in" new kibble but not raw or canned). My previous dog had IBD for two years and I tried every diet going to try and help him.

I also regularly give Nature's Farmacy Dogzymes Digestive Enhancer (enzymes and probiotics) and Dogzymes Ultimate (multi-vitamin/mineral).

(BTW, I agree that venison is the *last* thing I'd start a dog out on that had never been fed raw. I think chicken is easier on the system and I like to avoid the more unusual meats in case I need to do a food trial.)


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

CorgiPaws said:


> I wonder how these labs are doing?


probably back on kibble


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## Lab Lover (Jul 1, 2010)

hcdoxies said:


> This is exactly what my thoughts were... They just posted to make PMR look bad. Notice how they haven't showed up again?
> 
> But, I also hope the labs have recovered


I don`t come here very often. Just when I have issues that I need resolved. It took 4-5 days for my Labs to recover. The vet seemed to think that they have some kind of food poisoning from the raw food.

I went back to my old stand by of Pinnacle Trout and Sweet Potato and they are doing great again. This food is very easy on their tummies. I learned my lesson. If it aint broke..don`t fix it.


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## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

My vet told me that my dogs are going to die of salmonella. It's just not true. Vets don't like raw feeding. Dogs do not have the same digestive system as we do and are designed by evolution to eat raw meat whether it be fresh or old. 

Mixing kibble and raw is generally not recommended and a lot of dogs can't handle it.. and as it has been said before, venison is a very rich food and to go from kibble to that is going to cause issues. My (raw fed) dog ate a bowl full of kibble and was sick for awhile. Diarrhea, vomiting, acting off... it wasn't a serious problem and your vet was 99% likely wrong.

And for the whole "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" comment.. well.. it might not be broken but it sure is a step down from properly done raw.. nothing, and I mean NOTHING, is better than fresh, natural, raw foods.


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## bdb5853 (May 21, 2010)

Lab Lover said:


> I don`t come here very often. Just when I have issues that I need resolved. It took 4-5 days for my Labs to recover. The vet seemed to think that they have some kind of food poisoning from the raw food.
> 
> I went back to my old stand by of Pinnacle Trout and Sweet Potato and they are doing great again. This food is very easy on their tummies. I learned my lesson. If it aint broke..don`t fix it.


I'm so sorry to hear this. What a disservice to your dogs.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Lab Lover said:


> I don`t come here very often. Just when I have issues that I need resolved. It took 4-5 days for my Labs to recover. The vet seemed to think that they have some kind of food poisoning from the raw food.
> 
> I went back to my old stand by of Pinnacle Trout and Sweet Potato and they are doing great again. This food is very easy on their tummies. I learned my lesson. If it aint broke..don`t fix it.


I'm sorry to hear this as well. Your dogs may be doing well on it now but the side effects of years of inadequate nutrition will show their signs in time. 

You shouldn't give up on something you never gave a fair chance.


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## Lab Lover (Jul 1, 2010)

bdb5853 said:


> I'm so sorry to hear this. What a disservice to your dogs.


Why?  I have a soon to be 13 year old Yellow Lab that has never had a health issue in her life. Just had a full exam with blood work and is in great shape and still vibrant. Still runs pretty good.. a little slower than her prime but runs. Don`t see too many 13 year old Labs running like she does.

My younger Lab also has never had any health issues ever. This is the first time either my dogs have ever been ill in their lives.

I have always used premium type foods. Started out with Wellness, and have also used Acana before settling on Pinnacle the last 6-7 years.

.


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## xxshaelxx (Mar 8, 2010)

Lab Lover said:


> Why?  I have a soon to be 13 year old Yellow Lab that has never had a health issue in her life. Just had a full exam with blood work and is in great shape and still vibrant. Still runs pretty good.. a little slower than her prime but runs. Don`t see too many 13 year old Labs running like she does.
> 
> My younger Lab also has never had any health issues ever. This is the first time either my dogs have ever been ill in their lives.
> 
> ...


There are dogs like this who have been on Ol' Roy all their lives. Just because they don't have any health problems doesn't mean the kibble's not bad for them.

Breeders who have switched to raw vs. kibble and have been breeding for many, many generations have noticed a definite increase in longevity of their dogs. Whereas labs have a lifespan of 12.6 years, perhaps it would be 16 years on a raw diet?

That's why it's a disservice to your dogs, because you were given the chance to put them on a better diet, on something that is more natural for them, and YOU screwed it up, so now you're discounting it.


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## Lab Lover (Jul 1, 2010)

xxshaelxx said:


> There are dogs like this who have been on Ol' Roy all their lives. Just because they don't have any health problems doesn't mean the kibble's not bad for them.
> 
> Breeders who have switched to raw vs. kibble and have been breeding for many, many generations have noticed a definite increase in longevity of their dogs. Whereas labs have a lifespan of 12.6 years, perhaps it would be 16 years on a raw diet?
> 
> That's why it's a disservice to your dogs, because you were given the chance to put them on a better diet, on something that is more natural for them, and YOU screwed it up, so now you're discounting it.


Wow..you sound very bitter that my dogs are in great health!!


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## SamWu1 (Oct 15, 2010)

Lab Lover said:


> Wow..you sound very bitter that my dogs are in great health!!


I don't think she's bitter about your dog's health, she's just rather suggesting that perhaps you didn't give raw a fair chance but I can understand that after an experience like that, it isn't exactly encouraging.

I can personally name several people, while their situation wasn't quite as serious as what you experienced, had a bad first experience feeding raw. Some persisted because they truly believed raw was best, while others threw in the towel.

Perhaps if you want something healthier than dry dog food and prefer not to feed raw, you can do homecooked which is worlds better than kibble. I'm certain you know no matter how safe kibble is, dry, hard pellets made with sub-standard meats and too much plant matter can't be healthier then fresh foods.


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

You won't find a nutritionist anywhere that doesn't work for a dog food company that will tell you highly processed cereal is as good for any animal as fresh whole foods. A study done by two vets in Belgium a few years ago proved that dogs fed a home made diet lived an average of 30 months longer than dogs fed commercial foods. The home made diet could be cooked or raw, PMR, Barf, Rawmeaty bones or whatever. The only thing the home made diets have in common is fresh whole foods.


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## Finnegan (Jun 18, 2010)

When I decided to switch to raw I did it as a "cold turkey" switch. Finn had been on exclusively canned Merrick food, which he loved, and which is a brand I think very highly of. I guess I could have approached it with the attitude that "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" ... but I thought that would be, as others have said, a disservice to my dog not to get over my own fears and try something that may be far superior to even the Merrick I was feeding. We had a bit of a rough go of it at first, Finn had awful diarrhea and a few vomiting episodes, and I cannot even count the number of arguments I had with my husband with him screaming "why can't you feed him a REGULAR food!?!?!?!" ... But in the end, all that drama was SO worth the exceptionally healthy and happy dog I have now. Granted, I never considered premade raw because it seemed to me that one of the better ideas of raw was to control what was going into the dog and that premade rather defeated that purpose. 

It seems to me that you approached raw with the idea that it was going to fail and be terrible for your dogs, and ... well, sure enough, that's what happened. It also seems to me that if you were truly interested in switching to raw, you'd have troubled yourself to do the research to determine what was required to do it right, rather than a haphazard attempt to make a complete switch in a week to a protein that's more likely than not to cause problems even for the most hearty of dogs. More to the point, I hope that haphazard attempt and your bad experience doesn't discourage others from trying a properly implemented raw switch. Because it's SO worth doing if you do it right.


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## SamWu1 (Oct 15, 2010)

Finnegan said:


> When I decided to switch to raw I did it as a "cold turkey" switch. Finn had been on exclusively canned Merrick food, which he loved, and which is a brand I think very highly of. I guess I could have approached it with the attitude that "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" ... but I thought that would be, as others have said, a disservice to my dog not to get over my own fears and try something that may be far superior to even the Merrick I was feeding. We had a bit of a rough go of it at first, Finn had awful diarrhea and a few vomiting episodes, and I cannot even count the number of arguments I had with my husband with him screaming "why can't you feed him a REGULAR food!?!?!?!" ... But in the end, all that drama was SO worth the exceptionally healthy and happy dog I have now. Granted, I never considered premade raw because it seemed to me that one of the better ideas of raw was to control what was going into the dog and that premade rather defeated that purpose.
> 
> It seems to me that you approached raw with the idea that it was going to fail and be terrible for your dogs, and ... well, sure enough, that's what happened. It also seems to me that if you were truly interested in switching to raw, you'd have troubled yourself to do the research to determine what was required to do it right, rather than a haphazard attempt to make a complete switch in a week to a protein that's more likely than not to cause problems even for the most hearty of dogs. More to the point, I hope that haphazard attempt and your bad experience doesn't discourage others from trying a properly implemented raw switch. Because it's SO worth doing if you do it right.


Exceptional explaination, not to mention that the vomiting and diarrhea doesn't occur with all dogs. My foster came to me and went from eating some god awful stuff from the shelter straight to raw the first night and I never encountered a problem.

Second week included organ meat and pork ribs and she's doing great.


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## Tracmec (Dec 13, 2010)

Lab Lover said:


> I don`t come here very often. Just when I have issues that I need resolved. It took 4-5 days for my Labs to recover. The vet seemed to think that they have some kind of food poisoning from the raw food.
> 
> I went back to my old stand by of Pinnacle Trout and Sweet Potato and they are doing great again. This food is very easy on their tummies. I learned my lesson. If it aint broke..don`t fix it.


Veterinarians, (I know I'm generalizing here, there are a few good ones out there that aren't like this.) don't want people to feed RAW or home cooked diets because of two reasons. 

1) Dogs that are fed RAW or home cooked make fewer visits to the vet in their lifetime. This results in less revenue to the Vet.

2) Vets get paid kickbacks from the dog food companies for promoting commercially manufactured dog food to their customers.

You may not believe me, but its all about money. I will not take my dogs to a vet that sells dog food out of their waiting room. If your vet does, then that is the first indication that your Vet will be against you feeding your dog what their body was meant to process. Remember, Your dog is a CARNIVORE.


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## 300roses (Dec 20, 2010)

I started my gal, Rossi, on commercial raw, as I thought I was still very new to raw, so it should be better to start her off on pre-made raw first, before doing my own raw. 

But Rossi did not like the commercial raw diet and refused to touch it. She will only eat it when I mix it with a couple slices of fresh raw meat. On the 4th day of eating it, she began vommiting badly and have very bad diarrhea with blood. I took her to the vet on the next day, whereby I told the vet what she ate. He commented that the combination of ingredients in the commercial raw might be too much for her,thus resulting in the vomitting and diarrhea with blood. He proceeded to give her a jab to settle her stomach and advised me to give her a bland diet of chicken/egg with rice till she got better, before re-starting her on raw. 

After this, I stopped the commercial raw, but this incident did not deter me from going raw. I wanted to give raw another shot, but this time, I did my own raw diet for her. I started off simple with just a few slices of raw meat and slowly add on when she got adjusted to the diet. She loves the raw I did for her and does well on it. Now she is over 5 months on raw. 

I personally feel that pre-made raw might not suit every dog. My friend's dog did fine on it, but it sure didnt suit my Rossi. However, I'm glad I didnt give up on raw when she had this bad episode. What I learnt from my own experience is to start the diet simple and go slow in adding variety.


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## Tracmec (Dec 13, 2010)

Our dogs eat the same meat that we eat. The only difference is we cook ours and they eat theirs RAW! :biggrin:


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## Jack Monzon (Jul 25, 2010)

Lab Lover said:


> I was at a pet stores CA Day and won 6 free bags of Natures Variety Raw Medalions.


What was your motivation for trying raw other than the fact that you won a bunch of free bags?


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

Lab Lover said:


> Why?  I have a soon to be 13 year old Yellow Lab that has never had a health issue in her life. Just had a full exam with blood work and is in great shape and still vibrant. Still runs pretty good.. a little slower than her prime but runs. Don`t see too many 13 year old Labs running like she does.
> 
> My younger Lab also has never had any health issues ever. This is the first time either my dogs have ever been ill in their lives.
> 
> ...


I know plenty of very elderly people who are in "good health" whom are "pack-a-day" smokers. 
I assure you their "good health" is not because they smoke a pack a day.

:wink:


I will leave the "dogs are carnivores" fact alone. Carnivore, Omnivore, Herbivore- doesn't matter, fresh foods are better for ANY creature than processed.


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## lmgakg (Jan 1, 2011)

corgipaws said:


> i will leave the "dogs are carnivores" fact alone. Carnivore, omnivore, herbivore- doesn't matter, fresh foods are better for any creature than processed.


amen!!!!!!!


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