# Propionic acid in dry food



## zuismanm (Oct 24, 2013)

Hi.
I have read different opinions on those issue. Many write that it is dangerous component and should be avoided.
Other says that in small amount (how small is small enough?) it is no that bad...
I am for 6 months feeding my pincher mixed dog with Regal dry foods (adult - different flavors...). 
At different sites those food get average+ ratings and quite good reviews... It took me quite long time to find those food, that 

My dog eats good
There are no problems with stool
Food is not that expansive (like let us say Akana or Go)

So - what can you say? Is Propionic acid that Regal contains really red sign, or it is not more dangerous , that other components , that appear in 90% of dog dry food brands.
Not being biologist or close to those field I really have no idea - how to relate those stuff...


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## saya (Oct 25, 2010)

I was going to try Annamaet Option eventually, but noticed it had this ingredient.. :\ I guess I'll stick with farmina.


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## Shamrockmommy (Sep 10, 2009)

It inhibits the growth of bacteria and fungus. 
I don't know how safe or not it is. Hmm. Off to google.


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## zuismanm (Oct 24, 2013)

> It inhibits the growth of bacteria and fungus.
> I don't know how safe or not it is. Hmm. Off to google.


Obviously - I have started with google search. 
Information on those component is very dubious... From one side - there are many that write that it can be harmful for different reasons. 
From other side - it is officially accepted as acceptable component for animals food and even for humans food. It is E218 preservative... 
So - that is exactly the problem. As I am not biologist - I do not know how to relate all those dubious info...


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## A&W (Apr 26, 2014)

It is known to cause cancer at some level.


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## zuismanm (Oct 24, 2013)

> It is known to cause cancer at some level.


Hi.
Do you have some references on those issue?
I also have heard such rumors... But - did not success to find some scientific study that supports them...


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## doggiedad (Jan 23, 2011)

saya:
Annamaet is one of the brands i feed my dog. i have a bag of Manitok an i didn't see
propionic acid listed.


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## A&W (Apr 26, 2014)

Just find a Material Safety Data Sheet somewhere. It is an artificial preservative that shouldn't be in pet food even in small amounts.


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## A&W (Apr 26, 2014)

DoggieDad, you use those tiny little kibbles on such a bloat prone breed? Kibbles that size greatly increase the risk of bloat.

What's wrong with this site you can't quote and reply anymore?


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## 1605 (May 27, 2009)

A&W,

You make many claims, but post no proof.

How do you know this preservative "causes cancer"?
How do you know the size of the kibble "encourages bloat"?

Links to actual scientific studies would go a long way to showing facts vs rumour.

And yes, this forum is still "broken" with no feedback or solution in sight!


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## A&W (Apr 26, 2014)

You have Google..look it up. It is known as a severe irritant and causes cancer and pre-cancerous conditions in animals. EPA classifies it as a pesticide.

As far as small kibble and bloat, this is common knowledge as well. Why not try Google. There were several studies, one on Great Danes, that verified this. Large kibble slows eating and forces the dog to chew rather than gulp (air). If I remember correctly the guidance is a kibble at least 3 cm which is about one inch.


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## zootv (Mar 8, 2014)

http://www.sciencelab.com/msds.php?msdsId=9927407


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## 1605 (May 27, 2009)

zootv: What is that file supposed to be about? Also, that file type doesn't download as anything that my PC recognizes. Do you have another link to a website or different type of file?


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## 1605 (May 27, 2009)

A&W: if you make an assertion/hypothesis, it is up to YOU to VALIDATE IT with actual EVIDENCE.

Saying "google it" or "the information is out there" or "it's common knowledge" proves nothing.


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (May 19, 2009)

The sciencelab link works for me and is the safety data sheet. Here's an EPA link I found..... looks like it's been used in all sorts of animal and human food since the 70s. http://www.epa.gov/oppsrrd1/REDs/old_reds/4078red.pdf


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## zootv (Mar 8, 2014)

the sciencelab link is just to a PDF of a MSDS. I have to read these for a living in regards to construction but it pretty much lists:

Toxicity to Animals:
Acute oral toxicity (LD50): 3500 mg/kg [Rat]. Acute dermal toxicity (LD50): 500 mg/kg [Rabbit]


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## zuismanm (Oct 24, 2013)

> Toxicity to Animals:
> Acute oral toxicity (LD50): 3500 mg/kg [Rat]. Acute dermal toxicity (LD50): 500 mg/kg [Rabbit]


So - do I understand it right?
I have to contact Regal and ask them for what is a concentration of propionic acid in their food... And if it is less then 500 mg/kg - I can assume that it is safe?
Does those restriction also include estimation of safety from point of view of carcinogen influence? 
Generally - I understands that ideally food have to not include materials classified as "pesticide". But being realistic - I understands that any(or almost any) dry dog food contains such materials to prevent it from waste even before it will be sold... Am I right?
So - what I am trying to figure out is :
Is those propionic acid more dangerous then preservatives used in food of other manufacturers.
Like Nutram - that I am currently feeding my dog until I will figure out question with Regal food.
For different reasons in general I preferred Regal (my fog really liked it, he had good stable feces, no digesting problems, and regal food is sold in small packs at approximately same price per kg as for big packs - big advantage if you have small dog like my German pinscher...). But of cause - if I will conclude that those is really dangerous and can slowly kill my dog - I will stick with alternative brands...
That is why I am that tedious on those issue:biggrin:


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## saya (Oct 25, 2010)

doggiedad said:


> saya:
> Annamaet is one of the brands i feed my dog. i have a bag of Manitok an i didn't see
> propionic acid listed.


The option formula has it maybe those formula only got it, but not the grain free ones..
Option Formula

I checked monitok and didn't see it. Might try that formula next time.


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## A&W (Apr 26, 2014)

saya said:


> The option formula has it maybe those formula only got it, but not the grain free ones..
> Option Formula
> 
> I checked monitok and didn't see it. Might try that formula next time.


Don't buy it on-line $80.99 for that food is a rip-off. 30/16, not worth the money. Also, 'buffalo' might be water buffalo and from overseas somewhere.


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## A&W (Apr 26, 2014)

Penny & Maggie's Mom said:


> The sciencelab link works for me and is the safety data sheet. Here's an EPA link I found..... looks like it's been used in all sorts of animal and human food since the 70s. http://www.epa.gov/oppsrrd1/REDs/old_reds/4078red.pdf


And so has BHA/BHT, actually since the 1940's. I found several states that classify PA a carcinogen or pre-carcinogen. Foods this price should be naturally preserved.


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## Foodie (Apr 25, 2010)

Penny & Maggie's Mom said:


> The sciencelab link works for me and is the safety data sheet. Here's an EPA link I found..... looks like it's been used in all sorts of animal and human food since the 70s. http://www.epa.gov/oppsrrd1/REDs/old_reds/4078red.pdf



That's a good link, here's the same info in an easier to read format: http://www.epa.gov/oppsrrd1/REDs/factsheets/4078fact.pdf

Read the Human Risk Assesment


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## Cady-Ren (Mar 2, 2014)

I find the comments that bigger kibble forces a dog to chew, thus reducing the chance of bloat amusing. My two must not have gotten the memo, as I have 2/3 of a bag of Farmina Ancestral Grain Cod that I will be chucking, as neither dog really cares for it & most times the 9 month old swallows it whole. The kibble is just too big for my liking & despite the "smells" so fresh comments on other threads, it smells like any other dog food to me. Last time I by a 26 pound bag before trying it.


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## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

Which kibble will you feed your dogs instead?


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