# Spay Incontinence



## kady05 (Jul 29, 2011)

I'm not sure if I've ever mentioned this here, but Piper developed spay incontinence at around 15 months old (she was spayed at 6 months, before her first heat). It has always been very sporadic, meaning she would sometimes go a full month in between accidents, then out of the blue she'd have them 3-4 days in a row. They ALWAYS happen at night, and especially after she's been exercised heavily that day.

I let it go for awhile, but when it started getting worse (she was having multiple accidents per week) we tried Proin with HORRIBLE results. Never again. It was like I poisoned her, awful! 

Anyway. Shortly after the Proin episode is when I switched her to raw. She's been on raw since August '11 and since starting, has only had a handful of accidents. I was starting to think (and still do, to a point) that the raw had essentially "cured" her. But I think I jinxed her.. I was talking about that the other day and now for the past two nights she's had accidents. Mind you, they're MUCH smaller than they were when she was on kibble, and only one episode vs. multiple (on kibble when she'd have them, she'd have one BIG accident followed by numerous smaller ones the same night). So, still an improvement!

However, I'm wondering if there's something more natural I can try to help her. I have some Soy Isoflavones tablets that I've never tried (another member of a forum I'm on recommended them), but I'm not sure how much to give. They're 40mg. each. Has anyone used these before with success? Or does anyone have any suggestions?


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## twoisplenty (Nov 12, 2008)

My now almost 6yr old female also has spay incontinence. She was spayed when she was 3.5 yrs old. She had multiple accidents daily, always after laying down or sleeping. We also found it was worse after a day of exercise. The muscles that supported the bladder just couldnt handle all that exercise and hold her bladder. We stopped any hard core playing with her and it helped a bit. We also started her out on Estrogen tablets.. This works well in mild cases of incontinence. It is in a 1mg dose and is given daily for the first 2 weeks and then is slowly reduced to every other day and the end result is to be given once a week. Estrogen can increase the chances of breast cancer in our dogs but at a once a week dose these chances are minimal. It is also quite affordable to giveThe first 2 weeks cost us $15 Cdn and it would have only been $1.15 per week on a pill a week dosage. This did not work for my girl 

The next treatment we tried is pseudoephedrine (commonly found in Sudofed) which you can purchase without perscription from your local pharmacy. Raven is 65lbs and can have 30mg twice a day. I was surprised a decongestant works for incontinence but hey, I am willing to give it a go! This worked wonders for her!!! We had her on this treatment for approx. 6 mths. What it does is it helps tighten the sphincter. This treatment has a 50% chance of working. We keep Raven very lean, we find any additional weight will also cause an incident. Also since switching to Raw we have also noticed a huge decrease in accidents. Raven has not been on medication for about a year now. We have had maybe one accident and it was pretty small. We also do not allow her to fill herself with water which puts extra strain on the bladder. If she is thirsty we monitor her water intake, if she is hot after a good play we remove water until she cools down a bit then put it back down. All these things seem to help


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

Spay incontinence - I was asking around from some holistically treating breeder friends several have had a chiropractic adjustment made and it has corrected the problem - chiro seemed to think the way the dog is positioned and handled before and during surgery can through the spine out of alignment causing the incontinence. The other common treatment is Nature's Way Black Cohosh - the doseage is listed on the bottle. Most started with a daily doseage and were able to decrease to every other day for maintenance. The third alternative were the Isoflavones. Hope one of those ideas help your girl.


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## kady05 (Jul 29, 2011)

twoisplenty said:


> My now almost 6yr old female also has spay incontinence. She was spayed when she was 3.5 yrs old. She had multiple accidents daily, always after laying down or sleeping. We also found it was worse after a day of exercise. The muscles that supported the bladder just couldnt handle all that exercise and hold her bladder. We stopped any hard core playing with her and it helped a bit. We also started her out on Estrogen tablets.. This works well in mild cases of incontinence. It is in a 1mg dose and is given daily for the first 2 weeks and then is slowly reduced to every other day and the end result is to be given once a week. Estrogen can increase the chances of breast cancer in our dogs but at a once a week dose these chances are minimal. It is also quite affordable to giveThe first 2 weeks cost us $15 Cdn and it would have only been $1.15 per week on a pill a week dosage. This did not work for my girl
> 
> The next treatment we tried is pseudoephedrine (commonly found in Sudofed) which you can purchase without perscription from your local pharmacy. Raven is 65lbs and can have 30mg twice a day. I was surprised a decongestant works for incontinence but hey, I am willing to give it a go! This worked wonders for her!!! We had her on this treatment for approx. 6 mths. What it does is it helps tighten the sphincter. This treatment has a 50% chance of working. We keep Raven very lean, we find any additional weight will also cause an incident. Also since switching to Raw we have also noticed a huge decrease in accidents. Raven has not been on medication for about a year now. We have had maybe one accident and it was pretty small. We also do not allow her to fill herself with water which puts extra strain on the bladder. If she is thirsty we monitor her water intake, if she is hot after a good play we remove water until she cools down a bit then put it back down. All these things seem to help


That's so interesting about the Sudafed! My Dr. wanted me to take that because I have low blood pressure.. stuff made me feel like my heart was going to explode, so no go for me. Did you notice if it made her hyper at all?



Liz said:


> Spay incontinence - I was asking around from some holistically treating breeder friends several have had a chiropractic adjustment made and it has corrected the problem - chiro seemed to think the way the dog is positioned and handled before and during surgery can through the spine out of alignment causing the incontinence. The other common treatment is Nature's Way Black Cohosh - the doseage is listed on the bottle. Most started with a daily doseage and were able to decrease to every other day for maintenance. The third alternative were the Isoflavones. Hope one of those ideas help your girl.


Hm.. never thought about a chiropractor. I don't even know of one in our area, would have to search around. Certainly couldn't hurt..

I might go ahead and try the Soy, I mean, I already have it here, might as well.


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## LucyinSweden (Feb 20, 2012)

That's so sad. Poor baby.


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## ShanniBella (Jul 1, 2011)

Ugh! Reading this makes me not want to spay Bella! She will be 21 months old when she gets done. I have waited to spay her because i initially wanted to show her plus i also wanted her to fully home mature. Seems we are dammed if we do and dammed if we don't. I'm also afraid of pyometra if left intact as well as mammary cancer. It sucks.....like a game of Russian roulette with our bitches health :-/


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## kady05 (Jul 29, 2011)

ShanniBella said:


> Ugh! Reading this makes me not want to spay Bella! She will be 21 months old when she gets done. I have waited to spay her because i initially wanted to show her plus i also wanted her to fully home mature. Seems we are dammed if we do and dammed if we don't. I'm also afraid of pyometra if left intact as well as mammary cancer. It sucks.....like a game of Russian roulette with our bitches health :-/


Oh, I wouldn't let this stop you from spaying her. Incontinence isn't deadly, pyo can be.. I do wish I would've let her have one heat cycle before spaying her, but can't go back in time!

It's annoying, yes. But it's completely manageable. And with Piper, it's really not *that* bad (even before starting the raw, it wasn't terrible).


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## ShanniBella (Jul 1, 2011)

Nah, it won't stop me just makes me worry more lol! She already has her appt. For next month set


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## kady05 (Jul 29, 2011)

ShanniBella said:


> Nah, it won't stop me just makes me worry more lol! She already has her appt. For next month set


I'm sure she'll be okay. I know plenty of spayed females with no issues whatsoever


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## BeagleCountry (Jan 20, 2012)

Connor is a paraplegic with limited bladder control. He will drip when the bladder is full or he is tired. Vetri-Science Bladder Strength works most of the time. It is available at amazon.com, ebay and some of the online pet supply stores. HomeoPet's Leaks No More didn't work. It had to be given several times per day, not at mealtime.
Bladder Strength For Dogs - supplement for bladder health and control


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## RRs (Aug 31, 2011)

I also use the Vetri-Science Bladder Strength on a daily basis. (Drs. Foster & Smith has it on sale right now. I just ordered 6 bottles.) I have been giving it to Jata, my almost 4 year old ridgeback, for nearly 2 years. However, I also give her Proin for 2 week cycles with intervals of 2-4 weeks without Proin, to reduce risk of side effects.

Jata was spayed at 15 months of age, 3 months after her initial heat cycle. Nine months later, after blood tests, ultrasounds and, finally, a vaginoscopy (endoscopy) it was determined that she had an ectopic ureter. This explained why she she had ocassionally leaked a few drops even as a puppy, but the leaking worsened after the spay. The veterinary internist recommended against corrective surgery and prescribed the Proin on an intermittent basis, something my regular vet had never heard of before.

As noted by others, the leaking worsens when she is physically exhausted. I recall once after a long day on the lake where she spent hours in and out of the water and running around on shore, she had just laid down for the ride back to the marina when the flood gate opened and her bladder emptied. Since then I make sure to cycle her on the Proin when I know we are going to take her on vacation with us. I don't limit her water intake, but I do make every effort to make sure she goes out for potty breaks. She has access to the yard at all times but I still take her out before going to bed, even if she has already been asleep for hours. And if she seems restless during the night I drag her out for a potty break. With a little planning, it is very manageable.

Best of luck finding something that works for Piper.

edit: I went back and looked at some of the research I did on Proin (phenylpropanolamine) and noted that it is a decongestant in the same family as Sudafed (pseudeophedrine). PPA is generally considered to have fewer side effects.


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## mwplay (Oct 10, 2010)

I've got the same issue here, with 2 sisters (same mother, different father) who were spayed AFTER their first heat.

My older one also has chronic vaginitis/vaginal infections due to hormonal issues from spay. I had never heard of it before until she started getting these infections. She doesn't get bladder infections, thank goodness, but has occasional vaginitis and incontinence issues. We had her scoped to check for tumors/masses due to the recurrent infection. Luckily, they found nothing. The specialist who did the scope actually has a dog that has the same issues. I never knew this was a possible unintended side effect from spay. 

I've been using Azmira Kidni Kare for both the girls, but also give them a cranberry extract to help prevent infection. 

Here's the description on Kidni Kare: _This urinary formula regulates and strengthens the musculature and tones the membranes of the urinary system to reduce leakage. Its soothing and restorative properties help reverse incontinence._

Reading off the bottle, it contains: Plaintain Leaf & Corm, Buchu Leaves, Corn Silk, Horsetail Herb, St. John's Wort Flower Buds, Arnica Flowers, Thuja Leaf, Grain Alcohol & Spring Water.

I give it twice a day with their meals. I have found this to be effective. Prior to using it, the girls could be on my lap sleeping, I get up and feel a nice big wet spot. They just don't know its happening. I can honestly say we have not had an issue since we started this product.


I use Aspen Cranberry Extract to help prevent bladder infection. The vet mentioned if they are wet down there, there's a higher chance they can get an infection. So, to try to prevent infection, I've added the Cranberry. After speaking with someone who is very knowledgeable regarding herbal/holistic/homeopathic methods, she mentioned I could use d-mannose. I did some research online and apparently sometimes a combo of the two (cranberry and d-mannose) can be even more effective. Anyway, side note information, but might be useful for you to know.


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