# Issue with Aspen



## malluver1005

This started 7-5 thursday morning. I was at work and when I got home, there were tarry looking stools with maybe a hint of blood on the grass, kind of liquidy. That night at 9pm, he had canon butt, a small amount, of what looked like almost blood, brown reddish. This morning, there is some blood on the basketball court and some over his feathers, but this time, the stools on the grass are a very dark almost black color. If he doesn't get better by tomorrow, I'm taking him in. I'm fasting him today. I know he needs a bland diet but I don't know what? I'm thinking this is colitis. Help? These are my main questions:

1. Will he need to be on IV fluids and hospitalized?

2. Does he need antibiotics?

3.What does a bland diet consist of?


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## malluver1005

Anyone at all?


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## xellil

Well, what Liz and Re told me to do is go to chicken broth and pedialyte only for a couple of days. Then add in bland chicken in very tiny amounts.

It worked like a charm, too. I would suggest start doing that ASAP to calm down his digestive tract.

He won't need IV unless he is dehydrated. The pedailyte will help with that. 

Many vets prescribe antibiotics as a matter of course but I never give them.

It COULD be a parasite so maybe you do need a fecal.

Good luck, and let us know. I'm so sorry Aspen isn't feeling good.


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## Liz

I am sorry Aspen is out of sorts. I would definitely do a fecal to rule out parasites - which can be taken care of holistically if you know what you are dealing with. 

I would make a liver of chicken broth to feed and add some pedialyte - probably three or four tablespoons with every broth serving. I would give lots of water throughout the day, and either slippery elm or aloe vera at least twice a day and if you use aloe vera you can give it three times per day. I would also give bovine colostrum twice a day to help rebuild that immune system. Please keep us posted.


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## malluver1005

xellil said:


> Well, what Liz and Re told me to do is go to chicken broth and pedialyte only for a couple of days. Then add in bland chicken in very tiny amounts.
> 
> It worked like a charm, too. I would suggest start doing that ASAP to calm down his digestive tract.
> 
> He won't need IV unless he is dehydrated. The pedailyte will help with that.
> 
> Many vets prescribe antibiotics as a matter of course but I never give them.
> 
> It COULD be a parasite so maybe you do need a fecal.
> 
> Good luck, and let us know. I'm so sorry Aspen isn't feeling good.


Ok, so I bought chicken and rice. This won't work for a bland diet? He's not dehydrated at all, so I don't think I will need the pedialyte. He's drinking water.


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## Liz

Aspen is raw fed correct? Chicken and rice would be for kibble fed dogs. I would fast with only broth for 24 hours and then start feeding small amount of skinless chicken and work up from there. I would get a fecal done so you know if he has parasites that need to be knocked out. Let us know how the fecal comes back and we can help with the parasites without harsh wormers. Giardia is going around right now.


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## Chocx2

Same thing happened to my Kelsey, after talking to my friend "vet" I got her sub fluids twice and let them do a blood test basic so if she doesn't stop. Don't know what happened but the fluids helped her and she was fine after that?


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## xellil

i would give the pedialyte even if he doesn't seem dehyrdated. Diarrhea is draining.


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## malluver1005

xellil said:


> i would give the pedialyte even if he doesn't seem dehyrdated. Diarrhea is draining.


What kind of Pedialyte and flavor? Mixed in with the broth and how much?


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## Liz

Go to the baby section and you can get a clear, unflavored Pedialyte. I always keep a bottle on hand. It is sometimes worth its weight in gold.


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## malluver1005

Thank you everyone for your help. Will keep you all posted...


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## malluver1005

One more thing, how much of the pedialyte should I give him? He's 120 lbs. Should I mix it in with the broth?


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## xellil

Liz said - can you check the previous page? It's something like 2-3 teaspoons with his broth.


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## malluver1005

xellil said:


> Liz said - can you check the previous page? It's something like 2-3 teaspoons with his broth.


Oh yeah, you are right.


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## malluver1005

So this is what he did at 5:10pm today. *Caution graphic*















I don't get it because this morning his stools were dark, and a bit solid.


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## xellil

It's hard to tell - is that alot of mucus?


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## malluver1005

xellil said:


> It's hard to tell - is that alot of mucus?


There is mucous in there, as well as what looks like blood.


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## malluver1005

So I just got the pedialyte. Should I start him on the broth today? Or let him rest and start tomorrow morning?


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## xellil

yes I think that may be a little blood but I think it's more indicative of just an irritation in the bowel than anything more serious and of course mixed with poop and mucus it always looks like more than it is. 

However, that's just a layman's opinion.


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## malluver1005

xellil said:


> yes I think that may be a little blood but I think it's more indicative of just an irritation in the bowel than anything more serious and of course mixed with poop and mucus it always looks like more than it is.
> 
> However, that's just a layman's opinion.


I was thinking exactly the same thing


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## Makovach

I would start him on the broth and pedialyte right away. As well as the Slippery elm or aloe as suggested. 

This worked wonders when Tucker was sick. He loved the liver broth more than the chicken 

Hope Aspen starts feeling better soon!


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## malluver1005

Well, he ate the chicken broth and pedialyte with gusto! Or should I say drank.


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## malluver1005

Is there a specific brand of slippery elm I should get?


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## Kat

I use Nature's Way slippery elm capsules, just pop one of them open and sprinkle some on top of whatever it is you are giving. Iv used it a few times and Ruby actually likes the taste lol. Nature's Way was the only brand I came across at my friends health food store, so I dont know what other brands carry slipper elm. 

I hope Aspen gets better soon!


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## malluver1005

Kat said:


> I use Nature's Way slippery elm capsules, just pop one of them open and sprinkle some on top of whatever it is you are giving. Iv used it a few times and Ruby actually likes the taste lol. Nature's Way was the only brand I came across at my friends health food store, so I dont know what other brands carry slipper elm.
> 
> I hope Aspen gets better soon!


I think that's the brand my vitamin shoppe carries. But how much would I give a 120 lb. dog?


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## Liz

Just give him the adult doseage - he is the size of an average/small lady.  Beautiful boy. I hope this fixes him up. It really does look like and irritation but giardia can cause this also so if it doesn't clear up please just take a sample in for a fecal.


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## malluver1005

Liz said:


> Just give him the adult doseage - he is the size of an average/small lady.  Beautiful boy. I hope this fixes him up. It really does look like and irritation but giardia can cause this also so if it doesn't clear up please just take a sample in for a fecal.


I'm taking in a sample regardless, he's due for his fecal


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## magicre

how did i miss this thread?

please let us know.....you've gotten the bestest advice for your beautiful boy.


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## malluver1005

So he hasn't gone to the bathroom at all today. I guess this is a good thing...? And he also seems a lot more upbeat than yesterday.


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## magicre

malluver1005 said:


> So he hasn't gone to the bathroom at all today. I guess this is a good thing...? And he also seems a lot more upbeat than yesterday.


has he eaten? or is he drinking broth?

if he's only drinking broth, then it's not uncommon to not go.


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## malluver1005

He is only drinking broth and pedialyte. I spoke too soon though, he just went and it looks exactly like the picture I posted on page 2.


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## xellil

Are you taking in a fecal today?


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## malluver1005

xellil said:


> Are you taking in a fecal today?


The hospital is closed today for remodeling so I will be taking one in tomorrow morning. Do you think I should have it tested in house, or send it out to the lab?


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## magicre

i know this might sound disgusting...but does it smell like copper?

i think he doesn't eat today. 

broth, either liver or chicken or both, a little aloe vera if that's what you have.....and some infant pedialyte.....

and yeah, take in a fecal.

it looks like a colitis poop. meaning simply his lining is irritated and inflamed. once started, a little harder to stop but you can stop it.

if it's a bug, easy enough to treat.


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## malluver1005

^^^If you think that's disgusting, I usually go over and smell his poops whenever he has diarrhea, just to give me an idea. But to answer your question, yes, his stools do smell like copper. Colitis was the first thing that popped into my mind when this started. I've been giving him chicken broth and pedialyte 3 times a day, and slippery elm twice a day.


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## magicre

very little grosses me out LOL

how many days are we on the broth and slippery elm?


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## malluver1005

magicre said:


> very little grosses me out LOL
> 
> how many days are we on the broth and slippery elm?


The broth and pedialyte I started yesterday in the evening, and the slippery elm this morning. My health food store was closed yesterday.


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## xellil

Isn't a copper smell a sign of giardia Re?
you can do the quick in-house test and find out right away if it's something like giardia.


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## magicre

malluver1005 said:


> The broth and pedialyte I started yesterday in the evening, and the slippery elm this morning. My health food store was closed yesterday.


you can give slippery elm for three days....and he can live on broth and pedialyte for that long, too. 

as long as he is getting hydration and the electrolytes he is fine. 

and, it gives him a chance to rest the colon.

still, i'd take in a fecal to be on the safe side. i doubt highly that he has a bug...and if your vet doesn't see any, try not to buy into the prophylactic antibiotics that will make things worse not better.

you can also give him a probiotic (primal defense ultra is what we use) to help health up his gut flora and also bovine colostrum...which supports his immune system.

but for now, if you don't want to or can't get those products....i think what you're doing should work. but be prepared for it to take a few days...


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## magicre

the copper smell can be.....which is why i think a fecal should be done. doesn't always show up tho.

the copper can also be blood....and as long as the blood is bright red, which it is, i suspect a colitis...


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## xellil

I'm with Re on the antibiotics - I used to give them to Snorkels EVERY time but last time I did what Liz and Re told me, no meds, and I felt like i was actually doing the right thing for once.


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## malluver1005

Oh, I don't plan on using antibiotics.


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## magicre

malluver1005 said:


> Oh, I don't plan on using antibiotics.


i didn't think so, but i felt compelled to say it.


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## bett

honestly, i would see a vet with poops like that.
will you give him over boiled rice or no, because he's fed raw?


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## malluver1005

bett said:


> honestly, i would see a vet with poops like that.
> will you give him over boiled rice or no, because he's fed raw?


I've seen this a million times at my work, and honestly, the dog is always put on IV fluids and given antibiotics. I can do that at home, holistically. And not to mention that they always eat the fabulous canned food Hills id.


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## Liz

I think you are doing great and thinking logically. We have been so programmed to jump at every issue. If it is colitis - fasting and gradually adding plain food back into his diet will work. If it is giardia some holistics and he will be good to go. Whatever is going on his gut his system wants it out and you are doing great giving his tummy a rest.


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## malluver1005

He just went again but it is a lot less this time, and it looks to be a bit firmer. It's also a darker copper, than last time.


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## magicre

i'd continue the treatment plan....


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## DaneMama

I haven't read the entire thread, but it sounds like he's on the mend. 

Unless he's vomiting and lethargic then really no need for IV fluids and antibiotics. Just watery stool you can usually mend at home. 

Do you know what caused it?


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## magicre

how's he doing today?


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## MollyWoppy

Yay, sounds like he's doing a bit better each passing day. Sorry I missed the thread, although I didn't have anything but good healing thoughts to offer anyway.
Some really good advice from you guys, thank you very much!  I'm going to print it out incase I ever have an issue like this with Mol.


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## malluver1005

magicre said:


> how's he doing today?


He went this morning, still kinda watery. But this time, it's almost black in color and, it only has a hint of copper smell, if at all. Danemama, I have no idea what caused it. I tried taking in a fecal sample this morning but he was completely empty, will try again tomorrow. Question, should I try feeding him bits of chicken tomorrow? He's been on chicken broth and pedialyte ONLY for 2 days.


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## magicre

i wonder why the black colour, even as the coppery smell is leaving...

if it's blood from high up, the stool is generally black and tarry with a stench you will never forget. does it smell like that?

can you do the broth one more night? and then give him a bit of boneless tomorrow, like tiny bits along with the broth?

stop the slippery elm tomorrow......as i think you'll have hit the three days.....and stop the pedialyte.....

little tiny bits of chicken and broth for tomorrow.


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## malluver1005

magicre said:


> i wonder why the black colour, even as the coppery smell is leaving...
> 
> if it's blood from high up, the stool is generally black and tarry with a stench you will never forget. does it smell like that?
> 
> can you do the broth one more night? and then give him a bit of boneless tomorrow, like tiny bits along with the broth?
> 
> stop the slippery elm tomorrow......as i think you'll have hit the three days.....and stop the pedialyte.....
> 
> little tiny bits of chicken and broth for tomorrow.


It doesn't have a weird smell to it. The broth and pedialyte, I started 7/6 in PM and the slippery elm 7/7 in AM.


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## Liz

Sometimes the broth, pedialyte and slippery elm mix will cause a off colour - really dark. Everything Re said. Give just a little meat though and wait to see if he goes potty before feeding again.


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## magicre

thanks, liz, that i didn't know.

now i do.

sounds as if he's getting better.


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## malluver1005

I will post a pic of what his stools look like as of today, in a bit. I'm starving...


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## malluver1005

So this is his stool as of this morning (it's dry because I was at work)...


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## malluver1005

Good news, I hope!! He just went right now and it's not water anymore. It is like the consistency of apple sauce and still dark.


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## malluver1005

magicre said:


> i wonder why the black colour, even as the coppery smell is leaving...
> 
> if it's blood from high up, the stool is generally black and tarry with a stench you will never forget. does it smell like that?
> 
> can you do the broth one more night? and then give him a bit of boneless tomorrow, like tiny bits along with the broth?
> 
> stop the slippery elm tomorrow......as i think you'll have hit the three days.....and stop the pedialyte.....
> 
> little tiny bits of chicken and broth for tomorrow.


Shouldn't I continue the pedialyte though...because he still has diarrhea?


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## magicre

i think if he's drinking the broth and eating the chicken, you can stop the pedialyte for now. he's not in danger of dehydration...you would be able to tell...he would be a little lethargic, his gums would not be pinkish as they should be....

i'd give him broth and tiny bits of chicken but just a little bit......and see how he is tomorrow.

this is one of those day by day things...because if pedialyte and slippery elm make stools dark, we want to make sure that the stools are dark because of those items, and not dark for another reason.....if that makes sense.

i don't think anything is going on, but it always pays to make sure.......

having said that, you are the one who is with him....and when you look in to his eyes and look at his lower lid, if they are not pink, then you'd see that and make the decision to keep him on pedialyte one more day.

i would stop the slippery elm, though.


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## magicre

having said all that, i would still defer to liz as she knows a whole lot more than i do.


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## Liz

I would definitely stop the slippery elm and pedialyte is only called for in cases of dehydration - if his eyelids are pinkish just like Re said and his gums have a nice pink color I would drop it. Feed meat slowly and if he tolerates a little boneless chicken for a couple or three meals I would try something small and bone in to help firm stools. A lot of boneless and liquid will keep stools very soft to liquidy.


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## malluver1005

So he went this morning, not water anymore. It's dark brown this time. I did stop the slippery elm and pedialyte and gave him only broth and boneless chicken.


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## magicre

malluver1005 said:


> So he went this morning, not water anymore. It's dark brown this time. I did stop the slippery elm and pedialyte and gave him only broth and boneless chicken.


i do believe we are on our way back.....i'd do the broth and boneless chicken one more day and then add bony chicken and progress from there....

i'd stop the broth tomorrow.

i have a tendency to take stomach and intestinal things really slowly.....

maybe slower than some....but that's just me.


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## malluver1005

magicre said:


> i do believe we are on our way back.....i'd do the broth and boneless chicken one more day and then add bony chicken and progress from there....
> 
> i'd stop the broth tomorrow.
> 
> i have a tendency to take stomach and intestinal things really slowly.....
> 
> maybe slower than some....but that's just me.


You are not the only one...I have a tendency to take things really slow when it comes to Aspen


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## magicre

i'd like to hear how he's doing tomorrow....if you don't mind.


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## malluver1005

magicre said:


> i'd like to hear how he's doing tomorrow....if you don't mind.


Definitely.


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## malluver1005

So he hasn't pooped since yesterday morning, so I'm hoping this next one will be a good one!


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## malluver1005

Still no poop.


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## magicre

i don't think it would be a bad idea to feed a little more than you did. no poop is not a bad sign. he doesn't have much in him....except broth and tiny pieces of chicken.


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## malluver1005

Should I just give him more boneless chicken, or would a drumstick be okay?


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## Liz

I would go for a drumstick and hopefully he will go for you soon.


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## malluver1005

We have poop!! And it is normal color and firm!! Thank you Liz and magicre for your help!


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## Liz

Yay! It is so nice to hear some good news today. Good job to you for being patient and knowing your dog. Keep feeding a little lighter for a few days til he is back to normal.


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## magicre

yayayay.......and i was going to defer to liz but was thinking drumstick would be good....


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