# WHY do most lab owners think their dog needs to be bred?



## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

I know A LOT of people with labs bought from "good" breeders. 

Friend of mine has a papered, black lab. Couple grand in her for training, she is a duck dog. Found out that he just dropped her off for her first "date" and it just annoys me that he is breeding her. Yes she is a good working dog but just because she has papers and is trained well doesn't mean she should be bred.

I'll bet his brother will be breeding his lab when shes old enough...OH and my other friend has a male lab. He supposedly came from a "great" breeder but he is seriously the strangest looking lab I have ever seen. They want to breed him...

WHY do people do this? Money probably.

Do they realise HOW MANY labs are in shelters?

:tape2:

Bugs me to no end but I will keep adopting dogs and hold my tongue with these people...


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Probably pretty close to pit bulls. Or some kind of lab cross. 

but, I think alot of owners do that no matter what the breed. I don't get it, frankly. Either people don't know or they don't care that in each hour of every day 800 animals are euthanized in this country. The fact that they keep adding more is just disgusting.


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

xellil said:


> Probably pretty close to pit bulls. Or some kind of lab cross.
> 
> but, I think alot of owners do that no matter what the breed. I don't get it, frankly. Either people don't know or they don't care that in each hour of every day 800 animals are euthanized in this country. The fact that they keep adding more is just disgusting.


I care, darn it. This guys brother was looking for a lab pup and I directed him to SO MANY rescues that have lab pups available. He went to the first breeder he could find that had AKC papers. Flarking idiots.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Sprocket said:


> Flarking idiots.


yes, they are.


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## DeekenDog (Aug 29, 2011)

Honestly, I think a lot of clueless people get labs. If you're looking for a family dog and don't know much about dogs you're probably going to get a lab (or maybe a golden). Then you're clueless and have this "great family dog" with paper's and think it just makes sense to breed. A lot of these people don't even know or care to know about the number of labs (and dogs generally) in shelters. :mmph:


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## GoingPostal (Sep 5, 2011)

Ugh there are both labs and pit bulls mutt puppies on my local facebook selling site right now. I don't think the labs even have papers but they are $250 and the parents "have great hunting lines". ie we've never hunted our dogs and probably don't even know anything about the pedigree other than what the byb told me. They seriously have a pic of one puppy sniffing an antler as proof they will be great hunting dogs. I guess my three are all great hunters too because they love antlers. The pit x's the story is the dam was supposed to be a pit bull but doesn't look like one and the dad was some black dog that we don't know what he was and he's dead now anyways. 6 weeks old, come get em' free. 

A girl I kind of know was over once talking about breeding her dog, first off she had this dogs sister, got rid of her for a move or something, then "saved" him instead later when he was getting dumped and wants to breed him because his puppies would be "so cute". Like labsn't are everywhere up here, I brought up petfinder and showed her just how many adorable labs nobody wants are on there.


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

DeekenDog said:


> Honestly, I think a lot of clueless people get labs. If you're looking for a family dog and don't know much about dogs you're probably going to get a lab (or maybe a golden). Then you're clueless and have this "great family dog" with paper's and think it just makes sense to breed. A lot of these people don't even know or care to know about the number of labs (and dogs generally) in shelters. :mmph:


SOO true!!!

I had someone tell me that they(Labs and Goldies) were pretty much "bomb/idiot proof" breeds!!:wacko:
I couldnt believe it...if they were then there wouldnt be so many adults in shelters!!:frown:


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## eternalstudent (Jul 22, 2010)

I hate to say it but I see more and have more issues with labs and retrievers than any other dogs when I am out and about. The staffies and other bully breeds that are DA or simply aggressive are normally held on a lead around public places.

Labs however, are seen as cuddly family pets, and yes they can be but the are also big dogs who like to have things in the mouths and when unsocialised are a real problem.

I have spent the last 18 months trying to persuade my friend that his parents should not breed there lab, its nice enough but nothing special and the worst bit was they wanted to breed so they could have the experience of raising a litter!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thankfully they are now getting her spayed


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## DeekenDog (Aug 29, 2011)

eternalstudent said:


> I hate to say it but I see more and have more issues with labs and retrievers than any other dogs when I am out and about. The staffies and other bully breeds that are DA or simply aggressive are normally held on a lead around public places.
> 
> Labs however, are seen as cuddly family pets, and yes they can be but the are also big dogs who like to have things in the mouths and when unsocialised are a real problem.
> 
> ...


Thankfully, the BYB lab temperament around here is pretty decent (no thanks to the "breeders"). It's the Goldens I have problems with. There's a few BYB around here who are breeding dogs with CRAP temperaments and selling to clueless owners. Now we have Goldens (who can obviously do no wrong) who are DA (not too many HA thankfully) running around off-leash with zero training and going after my dog. Goldens are the reason my dog is leash reactive.

I'm so glad your friends parents aren't breeding their lab. We do not need anymore big black dogs in the shelters


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## Unosmom (May 3, 2009)

yup majority of the dogs at the shelter are either pitbull or lab mixes which is a direct reflection of whats going on with general population, lots of idiots out there looking to make a quick buck.


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## Chocx2 (Nov 16, 2009)

I have labs, haven't bred them, they are intact. I was going to bread my female just to have another dog like her, selfish I guess. She had allergy problems, so that went out the window, didn't want to give any other animal that illness. She had cleared all of checks. Her hips, elbows, thyroid, heart, all genetic issues also. So I thought she was perfect until she had an issue with allergies.

I am not a young person, in my life time I have adopted many dogs all wonderful companions. Greyhounds are the sweetest dogs I have ever rescued. I have also adopted an aggressive dog so she wouldn't be killed, she turned out to be one of my best dogs I have ever owned. 

Everyone isn't selfish about adopting I have labs to do a lot of stuff with. First time in my life I bought a dog and not rescuing one.

Oh, before I purchased my lab I went to the shelter to look for a rescue, several times, and like you are saying they are pits or pit mixes, I have grandchildren and didn't want to take the chance on a pit


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## Hadley (Jan 6, 2011)

I am glad you decided not to breed your lab, thank you for that. As a rescue person who sees countless lab mixes put to sleep for stupid reasons such as they are black, they are big, they shed, etc, it is nice to hear that you were subjective enough about your dog to choose NOT to breed her. 

However, I DO have issue with the way you worded this:





Chocx2 said:


> Oh, before I purchased my lab I went to the shelter to look for a rescue, several times, and like you are saying they are pits or pit mixes, I have grandchildren and didn't want to take the chance on a pit


Why not just say that you didn't want a pit bull because they weren't the right breed for you? It's simple as that. They are not going to hurt your grandchildren based on the sole fact that they are pit bull type dogs. If you wanted to purchase a dog, then that is great, I support purchasing dogs from well respected breeders. However, please don't use the "they were all sketchy pit bull mixes" as an excuse for not rescuing. It just reiterates mass hysteria.


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## GoingPostal (Sep 5, 2011)

Hadley said:


> However, please don't use the "they were all sketchy pit bull mixes" as an excuse for not rescuing. It just reiterates mass hysteria.


Not to mention, why assume a dog that isn't a "pit bull" is going to be safe with kids? All of my dogs were adults with unknown histories when I got them and all love kids, which isn't surprising given that most pit bulls adore humans more than anything.


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

I know more labs locked in backyards because they are insane (AKA not trained) and their owners don't trust them around their kids. One particular family has a pit and a lab. Lab lives outside, pit is the babysitter for their 3 kids.


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## greyshadows (Jan 30, 2012)

Any dog can be suspect around kids, it's all how they are trained or allowed to be. As far as overbreeding of labs, I have no problem breeding so long as they do it ethically and because they love the breed. Too many folks do it for the money not knowing what they are doing and figuring it's easy money, let the dogs sell themselves. I have two purebred dogs from two different breeders, one who loved the breed and took exceptional care in their breeding (she also rescued) and the other who was in it for the money (we didn't know at the time). It was sad, the one made sure her dogs found loving forever homes (and still keeps in touch), while the other didn't care as long as you had the money. If he couldn't get rid of them by a certain age off to the shelter they went. Afraid it happens too often and because labs are very common, they figure they can make money too.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

greyshadows said:


> Any dog can be suspect around kids, it's all how they are trained or allowed to be. As far as overbreeding of labs, I have no problem breeding so long as they do it ethically and because they love the breed. Too many folks do it for the money not knowing what they are doing and figuring it's easy money, let the dogs sell themselves. I have two purebred dogs from two different breeders, one who loved the breed and took exceptional care in their breeding (she also rescued) and the other who was in it for the money (we didn't know at the time). It was sad, the one made sure her dogs found loving forever homes (and still keeps in touch), while the other didn't care as long as you had the money. If he couldn't get rid of them by a certain age off to the shelter they went. Afraid it happens too often and because labs are very common, they figure they can make money too.


And that is precisely the reason we shouldn't buy these dogs. If they all had to go to the shelter, they'd get the parents fixed.


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## wags (Jan 31, 2009)

Some people must feel they have such a good dog they want to breed it. They want to share their good fortune not all people are in it for the money! They are not thinking of the consequences of the whole situation of breeding! I have two labs whom are both fixed, so not everyone breeds them! When I got my last dog the vet asked me if I would want to breed him! I said NO! He's just a family dog!


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

wags said:


> Some people must feel they have such a good dog they want to breed it. They want to share their good fortune not all people are in it for the money! They are not thinking of the consequences of the whole situation of breeding! I have two labs whom are both fixed, so not everyone breeds them! When I got my last dog the vet asked me if I would want to breed him! I said NO! He's just a family dog!


They SHOULD think of the consequences. It is irresponsible to breed willy nilly, and dogs suffer and die as a result of it by the millions. Ignorance is really no excuse.

Kudos to you for not doing that.


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## wags (Jan 31, 2009)

xellil said:


> They SHOULD think of the consequences. It is irresponsible to breed willy nilly, and dogs suffer and die as a result of it by the millions. Ignorance is really no excuse.
> 
> Kudos to you for not doing that.


Agreed!  But, we both know, there are so many folk out there ,that just don't at all think of what they are doing, and think they are correct in their very select/limited way of thinking! That thought process is unclear for them, and they really, a lot of them, think Oh I am doing such good never thinking of the shelter scene! Its sad how people aren't meaning at all to be cruel they just don't have that thought process! UGH!


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

wags said:


> Agreed!  But, we both know, there are so many folk out there ,that just don't at all think of what they are doing, and think they are correct in their very select/limited way of thinking! That thought process is unclear for them, and they really, a lot of them, think Oh I am doing such good never thinking of the shelter scene! Its sad how people aren't meaning at all to be cruel they just don't have that thought process! UGH!


I think alot of them know. They just don't care. And for the few who really don't know, it's our job to enlighten them


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## MissusMac (Jan 6, 2011)

Everyone thinks their dog is the prettiest/best/most well behaved ever. Doesn't mean you should breed it!
People ask me all the time why I neutered "such a beautiful dog", and I say because there are already too many people breeding dogs out of their backyard and adding to the pet overpopulation problem. That usually shuts them up and lets them know my position on breeding dogs. 

I think very few people are truly "reputable" breeders, and I will go so far as to say that even if your dog is of show stock and you do show him/her that does NOT mean you should be a breeder. A truly responsible breeder has all puppies sold to good owners before they are even conceived, not to mention does health testing and all of that. Anyone else is solely in it for the money, as far as I'm concerned.


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## greyshadows (Jan 30, 2012)

I agree Missusmac! Maybe if some of these dog shows would just allow well trained dogs in just so people can see the breed! I don't think you can show them if they are fixed can you? That would be more interesting and you would see "real working" dogs. Not just dogs who are there to show off so there owners can get monies out of there litters for generations to come. People ask me the same thing "why did you buy a purebred if you aren't going to breed it?"They just don't understand how or why people could love a certain kind of dog and not make money back on it.


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## kevin bradley (Aug 9, 2009)

good luck finding an answer here. I had some friends determined to breed their labs... collectively they probably make $150k. Yep, then we're gonna breed some dogs and sell them. 

I just don't get it. There are some things in this world I will never understand.


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## Love my lab (Dec 9, 2010)

well I got my lab from a byb...loved his dog and wanted a pup from her. He was not into making money off of them so was selling them just enough to cover his costs.( turns out he prob. lost because mom had to have emer c-section...puppy cost was 250, they all had their 1st shots and dew claws removed) Only thing he wanted was for the future homes to be from responsible people and people he knew so that he could stay in contact w/ the pups. Once he got people lined up he bred his papered dog w/ another papered dog and a litter was born. I fell into this because my brother had agreed to take a dog but by the time the owner got his dog bred my brother got another dog and he couldnt take it so he called me because we had put our dog down and he new I was thinking about getting another at some point...just turned out sooner then I planned. I knew from the moment I brought her home I wanted another, but wasn't going to breed because I couldnt handle the emotional worry of how the pups were being taken care of. I did spay her. But have been asked several times about breeding her and each time my answer is nope not for me. I do agree w/ to many unwanted dogs but that stands for all breeds I believe. I think you see so many labs in shelters because you get people who hear...labs are so great, they are such a wonderful family dog~~ true and true.....but they dont get there on there own people! It takes work. They are very high energy and people just dont realize that. My dog, I have been told is so wonderful,mindful, beaultiful...she is, but it didnt just happen on its own. A friend of mines kids want a lab...she says if i could get one and it would act and look like yours I would get one, but I dont have time to play with it and do the things like you do. I said well then dont get a dog, it will end up being naughty. She agreed and said like her hair dressers lab who jumps all over people everytime you walk in the shop. So flip side of a great lab.....our 1st dog was a rescued 17mo. old boy lab who was mistreated by his male owner...most beautiful dog ever, but sooooo mean w/ strangers. He was great w/us but he would about kill anyone who came to our house. We ended up haveing to get rid of him. But my point is any dog can be untrustworthy....it is all how they are raised and treated. Too many people look at a dog and think they are nothing but just a dog......and that is where the problems start. I mainly feel that some people do care for the dogs they are breeding and some are just money hungry and no better then a licensed puppy mill. Sad world to say that, but it is what it is and it happens everyday.


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## monkeys23 (Dec 8, 2010)

Love my lab said:


> My dog, I have been told is so wonderful,mindful, beaultiful...she is, but it didnt just happen on its own.


Different breed type, but that is exactly how I ended up with two dogs! Best friend's mom thought Lily was the cat's meow (which she is, but thats beside the point) and decided to get her own GSD/Sibe mix.... yeah didn't go so hot. She didn't listen AT ALL despite me telling her again and again how much training, exercise, etc. it takes.

Ugh Lab overpopulation here is just sad and revolting. At any given point in the year there are at least six friggin ads for lab puppies in the paper. And thats not counting the doodles and crap like that! At any given point the shelters have 3-10 (the shelters are all different sizes and this isn't counting the private rescues) purebred labs in there. This isn't counting the mixes... LOTS of lab/pointer, lab/gsp, lab/BC, Lab/Rott (gotta make those ginormous labs for stupid people!), lab/"pit bull", lab/spaniel, etc. etc. Its just disgusting how many of these dogs are getting hosed by ignorant people. Of course it happens with every breed, but labs by far the worst around here. You'll see people on corners trying to peddle their boxes of AKC lab pups at nearly every time of year, but particularly in the spring. GSP's are really overbred here too, but not nearly at the level that labs are and I've seen exponentially more labs of poor temperament/structure/health around here than I have GSP's.... GSPs are actually one of the few breeds in the sporting group that I actually kinda like, perhaps because they are the ones I've consistently met good examples of.

My step cousin's family buys the dumbest BYB labs you've ever met. They didn't contain their last dog that they bought to replace an older one that had died.... so the dog gets hit by a car and killed.... instead of going and snagging one of the COUNTLESS labs in the shelter, they just go buy another byb puppy. Omg this dog is dumber than a rock! Sorry, but I can't stand that dumb dog, it annoys the living crap outta me. Aaaand if that wasn't enough, their daughter who is a year or two older than my little bro, cajoled her gf into buying her yet another female lab pup. Probably from the same byb. My little bro was roommates with them when she got it... they didn't do jack with that puppy and now that its gotten big she dumped it on her parent's. Just makes me livid! I do not care for the breed, just not my cup of tea in overal characteristics, but jeebus no dog deserves that no matter how stupid it is!

My next door neighbors have several labs. The black ones aren't a problem, they just bark obnoxiously at the window whenever anyone walks by. However the chocolate female... well frankly if I wouldn't get in trouble I would take that dog out. It'd be better off than it is with them. How sad is that? They just let their dogs nuisance bark all the gd time when they are inside and when they are outside as well, but this dog can climb in and out of their 6ft privacy fence with ease and she is very DA. I'm sorry, I should be able to walk my dogs out into my partially fenced yard to pee without getting friggin' attacked. AC won't do crap 'cause the dog climbs back in when its done and all I need are those scary people shanking me because I bitched about their dog. Ugh, its annoying! At least they aren't breeding them I guess. *knock on wood*

So I don't seem too mean, I'd like to add that I don't approve of anyone who owns dogs acting or treating their dogs in this manner. Just 9 out of 10 big dogs people have here are labs. And they are ones that in no way meet the breed standard as far as temperament/smarts/working ability... I've met a few nice ones because bird dog guys use the same field we use for Schutzhund/PP to train on.

I can't see ever buying a Northern breed from a breeder for myself. There are just waaaaaaay too many good dogs in rescue. Hell if I could feed a third (once Spaz is gone) and not push back my plans for a working Malinois (or Dutchie or GSD... I'm not picky, the right fit is more important to me than breed! I'd also prefer a young adult.... hell if I could find a stable healthy young dog with the right drives in rescue I'd do that too) from a good breeder in the next 2-5yrs there is one I really, really, really want to apply for in rescue. She's a 3yr old dark agouti sibe girl with brown eyes, description says she'd do well in about any home and has no issues.... girl is like my dream Sibe! They are like potato chips right?


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## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

greyshadows said:


> I agree Missusmac! Maybe if some of these dog shows would just allow well trained dogs in just so people can see the breed! I don't think you can show them if they are fixed can you? That would be more interesting and you would see "real working" dogs. Not just dogs who are there to show off so there owners can get monies out of there litters for generations to come. People ask me the same thing "why did you buy a purebred if you aren't going to breed it?"They just don't understand how or why people could love a certain kind of dog and not make money back on it.


They do allow well trained dogs. You don't HAVE to breed a dog you show or even title. Now that Buck is starting to show that he is mentally ready for the ring (due to my inexperience at training a dog for the ring and him being a slow-to-mature hound) I am planning on FINALLY entering him in his first show in March. They don't make you sign a contract stating that you will breed your dog. Buck will never be bred. I choose to keep my dogs intact rather than neuter and, as an added bonus, I can enter him in conformation shows as well as the other dog sports a neutered dog can do. The reason a dog has to be intact is because the original intent of a dog show was to evaluate breeding stock. I think it is more... tradition... now than it was then. We all know the issues with conformation shows and breeding and there is a whole other thread devoted to it so I am not saying any of this to start something. Just stating a fact.

Dude is also intact. He has never been and never will be bred. I am not of the belief that mandatory spay/neuter laws are the solution anyway. I think education is the solution. 

I am also of the opinion that labs do not make good family pets. Most people don't realize that labs and goldens are working breeds and need a job to do that doesn't include laying around the house all day. When people who do not participate in dog sports ask me for help deciding on a breed for their family I always recommend toy breeds that have been bred for no other purpose other than being a companion. When they object and say they want a lab I point out the size, energy, and grooming requirements of an adult lab and that usually turns them away.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Dude and Bucks Mamma said:


> I am also of the opinion that labs do not make good family pets. Most people don't realize that labs and goldens are working breeds and need a job to do that doesn't include laying around the house all day. When people who do not participate in dog sports ask me for help deciding on a breed for their family I always recommend toy breeds that have been bred for no other purpose other than being a companion. When they object and say they want a lab I point out the size, energy, and grooming requirements of an adult lab and that usually turns them away.


DId you read Marley or see the movie? I read the book, and all I could think of was that poor dog. he was untrained, out of control, and probably not very happy. And the guy made a fortune off of him.


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## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

xellil said:


> DId you read Marley or see the movie? I read the book, and all I could think of was that poor dog. he was untrained, out of control, and probably not very happy. And the guy made a fortune off of him.


Yea, I saw it. I don't think the dog was UNHAPPY but I definitely think he probably spent a lot of his life in confusion. It doesn't bother me at all that the guy made a fortune off of him. He clearly loved that dog. No one who hates their dog writes a book about him. He was obviously a very loved dog owned by the typical, uneducated family who view labs as a great family pet and don't have the slightest clue about owning a working breed. It all goes back to a lack of education. If John Grogan knew that labs were a working breed and they have a lot of energy and could become destructive when bored do you think he still would have gotten one? Probably not. The only people who buy breeds who truly fit their families and lifestyles are those who go through the trouble of educating themselves first.

Unfortunately, Marley's situation is not uncommon. I know SO may labs who are like that and they all live in families where the dog is just an afterthought when it comes to the family. My dogs are my modified children, both physically and in the way they are treated. They are treated like dogs and they are short, hairy, and have four legs, but they are still as big a part of our daily lives as children are to parents. We take them to school, to the park, to friend's houses, to the store, etc. THAT is the type of house a lab should live in. A house that has the time to focus on him. They aren't dogs that can just be expected to get exercise just when someone thinks, "Oh, maybe I should take the dog for a walk". I actually don't know anyone outside of this forum who actually competes in any kind of dog sport with their lab... I know a ton of people with them and it just occurred to me that NONE of them are the kind of people we have on this forum...


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## KittyKat (Feb 11, 2011)

Dude and Bucks Mamma said:


> Yea, I saw it. I don't think the dog was UNHAPPY but I definitely think he probably spent a lot of his life in confusion. It doesn't bother me at all that the guy made a fortune off of him. He clearly loved that dog. No one who hates their dog writes a book about him. He was obviously a very loved dog owned by the typical, uneducated family who view labs as a great family pet and don't have the slightest clue about owning a working breed. It all goes back to a lack of education. If John Grogan knew that labs were a working breed and they have a lot of energy and could become destructive when bored do you think he still would have gotten one? Probably not. The only people who buy breeds who truly fit their families and lifestyles are those who go through the trouble of educating themselves first.
> 
> Unfortunately, Marley's situation is not uncommon. I know SO may labs who are like that and they all live in families where the dog is just an afterthought when it comes to the family. My dogs are my modified children, both physically and in the way they are treated. They are treated like dogs and they are short, hairy, and have four legs, but they are still as big a part of our daily lives as children are to parents. We take them to school, to the park, to friend's houses, to the store, etc. THAT is the type of house a lab should live in. A house that has the time to focus on him. They aren't dogs that can just be expected to get exercise just when someone thinks, "Oh, maybe I should take the dog for a walk". I actually don't know anyone outside of this forum who actually competes in any kind of dog sport with their lab... I know a ton of people with them and it just occurred to me that NONE of them are the kind of people we have on this forum...


I think the dog was unhappy, that is why he was always acting out. He didn't have the structure in his life that he desperately needed.


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## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

KittyKat said:


> I think the dog was unhappy, that is why he was always acting out. He didn't have the structure in his life that he desperately needed.


I don't think loved dogs are unhappy. I didn't have structure as a kid at all and was happy as a clam to be able to do what I pleased. It wasn't until later that I realized that I needed it but I don't think dogs ever sit and reflect on their past. Hahaha. 

Again, I just think he spent a lot of time confused, which could be considered unhappy but I view it as different. Do I think he was as happy as he could be? Heck no. But I don't think he was an unhappy dog. I also don't see it as "acting out" I see a dog who just doesn't know he shouldn't. Buck is happy but still gets destructive when he gets bored. He gets bored so he finds a way to occupy himself. I just know how to keep him entertained and worn out so he isn't bored very often. 

A lab around his people is going to be happy. A lab left outside and kept away from his people and is only around them when they choose to go outside with him is unhappy. I just don't think the dog was unhappy. I think he was bored and was never taught that he shouldn't destroy things.


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## greyshadows (Jan 30, 2012)

My in laws bought A yellow lab from a breeder and it was pretty mean. It growled when you walked by and my father in law would just say "he was the runt, nothing we can do." It pretty much laid around the house all day.
Sad.


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