# Questions about bloat and diet



## hund (Aug 7, 2012)

I have heard some people say that with a higher protein kibble you should mix a bit of water in while feeding it... what about the bloat issue? 
I have heard people say a dog shouldn't drink after they eat so what about if the water is in the food WHILE they eat?
How long after they eat kibble (or before) should a dog drink water?
My dog is a medium sized mutt (possible bull dog mix) and I don't know how high the chances of her having issues with bloat are but I don't want to take any chances!
If you could provide some sort of link i would find that very helpful!


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## SaharaNight Boxers (Jun 28, 2011)

When I fed kibble I would float every meal in water. I never fed a kibble with citric acid too. I didn't give him ice cubes when he was super hot as it can cause the stomach to spasm. I never gsve him cold watrr either, cool but not cold. I never let him drink a bunch of water, period. 

Might sound stupid, but I always kind of massaged his tummy just to see if it felt hard. One night it was a little stressed feeling so I massaged and gently pressed and he burped and released some air through his mouth so I think he may have been on his way to possibly bloating that night.


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## hund (Aug 7, 2012)

SaharaNight Boxers said:


> When I fed kibble I would float every meal in water. I never fed a kibble with citric acid too. I didn't give him ice cubes when he was super hot as it can cause the stomach to spasm. I never gsve him cold watrr either, cool but not cold. I never let him drink a bunch of water, period.
> 
> Might sound stupid, but I always kind of massaged his tummy just to see if it felt hard. One night it was a little stressed feeling so I massaged and gently pressed and he burped and released some air through his mouth so I think he may have been on his way to possibly bloating that night.


What about frozen raw chicken? I feed her the quarters frozen because she would gulp otherwise. Could this be a risk?


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## SaharaNight Boxers (Jun 28, 2011)

I think since it digests so fast and it has substabce versus just water it'd be fine. I've fed meat partially frozen and Duke's fine.


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## hund (Aug 7, 2012)

SaharaNight Boxers said:


> I think since it digests so fast and it has substabce versus just water it'd be fine. I've fed meat partially frozen and Duke's fine.


I'm just scared of feeding it thawed... this girl will give me a heart attack! She has gulped necks before- they were chicken necks and I suppose not altogether size appropriate (she's around 40 pounds)-- she gulped down a FROZEN chicken neck :S
Crazy dog!


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## SaharaNight Boxers (Jun 28, 2011)

It's ok. Digestion starts in the stomach for dogs, not the mouth. They just get it into an appropriate size until it fits down their throat. 

You might want to take this to the raw side before this goes bad...


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## hund (Aug 7, 2012)

SaharaNight Boxers said:


> It's ok. Digestion starts in the stomach for dogs, not the mouth. They just get it into an appropriate size until it fits down their throat.
> 
> You might want to take this to the raw side before this goes bad...


I realize that gulping is fairly natural... why would this "go bad"...?


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## SaharaNight Boxers (Jun 28, 2011)

hund said:


> I realize that gulping is fairly natural... why would this "go bad"...?


The problem of talking about raw on the dry and canned side.


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## 6Goldens (Aug 3, 2012)

I almost lost a 13 yr old GR to bloat. She did not die because of a remarkable string of coincidences. I had just read a newspaper article about bloat so I knew the symptoms. I happened to come home from work early that day so I fed her and then watched her walk out into the back yard. She was at the back fence 180 feet from me when I saw her in obvious distress. I ran back and she was showing all of the classic symptoms, especially a distended, hard belly. I rushed her to the vet and caught him walking out the door. Her stomach had already twisted. Vet performed immediate emergency surgery and she survived. To be objective, no one can tell you what causes bloat. Add water, don't add water, elevate bowl, don't elevate bowl, limit exercise, don't limit exercise, etc, etc, etc. The best defense against bloat is to know the symptoms and watch your dog carefully after feeding. Know exactly where your nearest emergency vet surgical center is and keep their telephone number on speed dial. If you observe bloat symptoms, respond like your hair is on fire.


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## LilasMom (Mar 10, 2012)

6Goldens said:


> I almost lost a 13 yr old GR to bloat. She did not die because of a remarkable string of coincidences. I had just read a newspaper article about bloat so I knew the symptoms. I happened to come home from work early that day so I fed her and then watched her walk out into the back yard. She was at the back fence 180 feet from me when I saw her in obvious distress. I ran back and she was showing all of the classic symptoms, especially a distended, hard belly. I rushed her to the vet and caught him walking out the door. Her stomach had already twisted. Vet performed immediate emergency surgery and she survived. To be objective, no one can tell you what causes bloat. Add water, don't add water, elevate bowl, don't elevate bowl, limit exercise, don't limit exercise, etc, etc, etc. The best defense against bloat is to know the symptoms and watch your dog carefully after feeding. Know exactly where your nearest emergency vet surgical center is and keep their telephone number on speed dial. *If you observe bloat symptoms, respond like your hair is on fire.*


I agree 100%


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## hund (Aug 7, 2012)

6Goldens said:


> I almost lost a 13 yr old GR to bloat. She did not die because of a remarkable string of coincidences. I had just read a newspaper article about bloat so I knew the symptoms. I happened to come home from work early that day so I fed her and then watched her walk out into the back yard. She was at the back fence 180 feet from me when I saw her in obvious distress. I ran back and she was showing all of the classic symptoms, especially a distended, hard belly. I rushed her to the vet and caught him walking out the door. Her stomach had already twisted. Vet performed immediate emergency surgery and she survived. To be objective, no one can tell you what causes bloat. Add water, don't add water, elevate bowl, don't elevate bowl, limit exercise, don't limit exercise, etc, etc, etc. The best defense against bloat is to know the symptoms and watch your dog carefully after feeding. Know exactly where your nearest emergency vet surgical center is and keep their telephone number on speed dial. If you observe bloat symptoms, respond like your hair is on fire.


Wow. Thats intense. I'm very glad your pup made it out alive! So basically there are mixed views on what causes bloat and adding water or not adding water wont necessarily make a bit of difference?


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## hund (Aug 7, 2012)

SaharaNight Boxers said:


> The problem of talking about raw on the dry and canned side.


Well technically I am referring to kibble in my original question as I still feed it and may continue to lol


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## SaharaNight Boxers (Jun 28, 2011)

hund said:


> Well technically I am referring to kibble in my original question as I still feed it and may continue to lol


I just meant about the one part, but it all seems to be good!


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## monster'sdad (Jul 29, 2012)

SaharaNight Boxers said:


> When I fed kibble I would float every meal in water. I never fed a kibble with citric acid too. I didn't give him ice cubes when he was super hot as it can cause the stomach to spasm. I never gsve him cold watrr either, cool but not cold. I never let him drink a bunch of water, period.
> 
> Might sound stupid, but I always kind of massaged his tummy just to see if it felt hard. One night it was a little stressed feeling so I massaged and gently pressed and he burped and released some air through his mouth so I think he may have been on his way to possibly bloating that night.


You were doing the wrong thing. Soaking kibble whether it has citric acid or not raises bloat risk because it encourages fast eating. Other than NOT using raised bowls and discouraging fast eating, there is little a person can do with a bloat prone breed. Quality or type of diet is not a risk factor.

Never wet, float or soak kibble if you have a bloat prone breed and never use a raised bowl. Limiting water or excercise has not been found to be effective.

"Risk factors for bloat can be divided into those relating to the dog (body shape, personality, etc.) and those relating to the environment or management. The study confirmed that bloat risk increased with advancing age, larger breed size, greater chest depth, and a close family history of bloat. The study also found that some strategies used by owners to prevent bloat either had the opposite effect or no effect at all. Particularly, raising the food bowl more than doubled bloat risk and restricting water and food before and after exercise may not have any effect."


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## hund (Aug 7, 2012)

monster'sdad said:


> You were doing the wrong thing. Soaking kibble whether it has citric acid or not raises bloat risk because it encourages fast eating. Other than NOT using raised bowls and discouraging fast eating, there is little a person can do with a bloat prone breed. Quality or type of diet is not a risk factor.
> 
> Never wet, float or soak kibble if you have a bloat prone breed and never use a raised bowl. Limiting water or excercise has not been found to be effective.


Do you have any verification of these facts? I'm not trying to be flip, I'm really wondering as I would like to read them!


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## monster'sdad (Jul 29, 2012)

Read the later studies by Glickman. In the end bloat is a breed, breed line and age specific problem.

Here is a quote:

"Risk factors for bloat can be divided into those relating to the dog (body shape, personality, etc.) and those relating to the environment or management. The study confirmed that bloat risk increased with advancing age, larger breed size, greater chest depth, and a close family history of bloat. The study also found that some strategies used by owners to prevent bloat either had the opposite effect or no effect at all. Particularly, raising the food bowl more than doubled bloat risk and restricting water and food before and after exercise may not have any effect."

http://www.moonstruckmeadows.com/Bloat (GDV) Study.htm


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## hund (Aug 7, 2012)

monster'sdad said:


> Read the later studies by Glickman. In the end bloat is a breed, breed line and age specific problem.
> 
> Here is a quote:
> 
> ...


Thank you! That was very helpful!


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## SaharaNight Boxers (Jun 28, 2011)

monster'sdad said:


> You were doing the wrong thing. Soaking kibble whether it has citric acid or not raises bloat risk because it encourages fast eating. Other than NOT using raised bowls and discouraging fast eating, there is little a person can do with a bloat prone breed. Quality or type of diet is not a risk factor.
> 
> Never wet, float or soak kibble if you have a bloat prone breed and never use a raised bowl. Limiting water or excercise has not been found to be effective.
> 
> "Risk factors for bloat can be divided into those relating to the dog (body shape, personality, etc.) and those relating to the environment or management. The study confirmed that bloat risk increased with advancing age, larger breed size, greater chest depth, and a close family history of bloat. The study also found that some strategies used by owners to prevent bloat either had the opposite effect or no effect at all. Particularly, raising the food bowl more than doubled bloat risk and restricting water and food before and after exercise may not have any effect."


Floating didn't speed Duke up at all. From what I've learned it helps break down the kibble so it doesn't produce excess gasses. And then no one really know about the elevated dishs either.


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## hund (Aug 7, 2012)

I guess I'll just have to keep a close eye on her around meal time :S I know the symptoms but I hope I never have to witness them...


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## 6Goldens (Aug 3, 2012)

monster'sdad said:


> Read the later studies by Glickman. In the end bloat is a breed, breed line and age specific problem.
> 
> Here is a quote:
> 
> ...


The Purdue study has been largely discredited as discussed in another thread. It shows correlation but not causation.


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## Savage Destiny (Mar 16, 2011)

monster'sdad said:


> You were doing the wrong thing. Soaking kibble whether it has citric acid or not raises bloat risk because it encourages fast eating. Other than NOT using raised bowls and discouraging fast eating, there is little a person can do with a bloat prone breed. Quality or type of diet is not a risk factor.
> 
> Never wet, float or soak kibble if you have a bloat prone breed and never use a raised bowl. Limiting water or excercise has not been found to be effective.


In my experience, soaking food- not floating it in water, but letting it soak up the water and expand- slows down eating drastically. I used to work in a boarding kennel, and we soaked the food for any dog that was a gulper. It slowed them all down. They simply can't inhale the food when it is soaked, not like they can when the kibble is dry and able to be sucked right up. 

I've also read quite a bit that soaking can help because it is partially breaking down the food before it even enters the stomach. It makes sense to me. Letting unchewed, hard little nuggets go whole into the belly where they then start to expand and release themselves seems like a recipe for disaster, or at the very least it would make digestion harder.


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## Kibblelady (Jul 13, 2012)

My opinion after years of seeing these suggestions etc and having GSDs as well as one that bloated and then suffered a GDV (Bloat and twist) that I lost my opinion is that if a dog is goin gto bloat it is going to bloat...be aware of the signs and react quickly to help your dog is my best advice. I do not follow anything else....


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## Kibblelady (Jul 13, 2012)

hund said:


> I'm just scared of feeding it thawed... this girl will give me a heart attack! She has gulped necks before- they were chicken necks and I suppose not altogether size appropriate (she's around 40 pounds)-- she gulped down a FROZEN chicken neck :S
> Crazy dog!


lol I had two 4mth old puppies do this to me one night (German Shepherds) and it freaked me out but dogs are known to "bolt" food and they do just fine. As long at the thing they bolt down is not physically so big to literally choke them I have never seen a problem.


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## Kibblelady (Jul 13, 2012)

monster'sdad said:


> You were doing the wrong thing. Soaking kibble whether it has citric acid or not raises bloat risk because it encourages fast eating. Other than NOT using raised bowls and discouraging fast eating, there is little a person can do with a bloat prone breed. Quality or type of diet is not a risk factor.
> 
> Never wet, float or soak kibble if you have a bloat prone breed and never use a raised bowl. Limiting water or excercise has not been found to be effective.
> 
> "Risk factors for bloat can be divided into those relating to the dog (body shape, personality, etc.) and those relating to the environment or management. The study confirmed that bloat risk increased with advancing age, larger breed size, greater chest depth, and a close family history of bloat. The study also found that some strategies used by owners to prevent bloat either had the opposite effect or no effect at all. Particularly, raising the food bowl more than doubled bloat risk and restricting water and food before and after exercise may not have any effect."



I have always added water and a bit of wet food to my dog's ONE meal per day over the last like 7 years.... no bloat here in these two GSDs. When I did everything that was suggested to avoid it? My dog bloated twice and I lost him..... I do not avoid doing anything now and have never had a problem.


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## 6Goldens (Aug 3, 2012)

Kibblelady said:


> My opinion after years of seeing these suggestions etc and having GSDs as well as one that bloated and then suffered a GDV (Bloat and twist) that I lost my opinion is that if a dog is goin gto bloat it is going to bloat...be aware of the signs and react quickly to help your dog is my best advice. I do not follow anything else....


I believe this is the most true statement I have ever read on a dog forum. Having almost lost one to GDV, I get very concerned when some people think they can avoid GVD by elevating food bowl (or not), adding water to food (or not), limiting exercise (or not), not feeding kibble with citric acid unless you feed dry, etc, etc. The best and only safe advice is to know the symptoms and know how to respond.


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## Kibblelady (Jul 13, 2012)

Yeah Goldens, the stress for dog parents in trying to do all these things to avoid a GDV or bloat is just IMO crazy and unnecessary


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

In my experience GDV is a random occurrence in large, deep chested dogs. The larger and the deeper the chest the higher the likelihood of it happening. I've learned that focusing on how to prevent it is a waste of time and energy because the "remedies" and tricks don't hold up. Instead know the signs like the back of your hand, know where the closest ER vet is to your home (have their number on speed dial) and sleep in the same room as your dogs because lots of dogs bloat over night. If you're not around for it, nothing can be done.


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## 1605 (May 27, 2009)

DaneMama said:


> In my experience GDV is a random occurrence in large, deep chested dogs. The larger and the deeper the chest the higher the likelihood of it happening. I've learned that focusing on how to prevent it is a waste of time and energy because the "remedies" and tricks don't hold up. Instead know the signs like the back of your hand, know where the closest ER vet is to your home (have their number on speed dial) and sleep in the same room as your dogs because lots of dogs bloat over night. If you're not around for it, nothing can be done.


Perhaps a sticky listing the symptoms somewhere on the Board would be a good idea? Something that people could either print from the screen or copy/past into a document to print?


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## Breathing Borla (Apr 30, 2010)

the only thing I do is I have a bowl that has a bunch of tabs in it so she has to fish out the food which slows her way down. Also I try not to run her right after she eats.

does this work, I have no idea but so far so good and shes 6 now

Weim lab mix


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## 1605 (May 27, 2009)

Breathing Borla said:


> the only thing I do is I have a bowl that has a bunch of tabs in it so she has to fish out the food which slows her way down. Also I try not to run her right after she eats.
> 
> does this work, I have no idea but so far so good and shes 6 now
> 
> Weim lab mix


This is pretty much in keeping with common practice among field trialers or hunters: dogs are never fed before their brace and not for about 30 min-1 hr after they run.

FWIW,


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