# Abady?



## gsdmom (Jul 1, 2010)

I was looking at this food and it looks like a good food any thoughts?
http://therobertabadydogfoodcoltd.com/


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

Abady is not the worst food on the market, but it's not something I'd even consider in the running if I were looking for something to feed my pets. 

While I'm not as terrified of by-products used in pet foods as some people are, I also don't feel that they should be the bulk of any kind of feeding plan... and for this food to be made up of MOSTLY chicken by products, rice, and then fish meal and lard... it's just not impressive, at all... ESPECIALLY when looking at the price tag. 

I'm not sure about you, but I have dogs... and dogs don't need rice.


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## gsdmom (Jul 1, 2010)

Didnt see the rice lol


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## buddy97 (Mar 29, 2010)

i just came from another forum where people are posting promotional material put out by Abady and passing it off as some kind of research proving the virtues of abady dog food.

...one of the claims was feeding Abady dog food prevents hip dysplasia in large breeds...........every shred of evidence and research i have ever seen regarding HD indicates dietary considerations may delay onset of symptoms or exacerbate them...but for the food itself to prevent what is primarily a genetic disease

anyway..the food...eh...nothing special is my opinion, and if it is not cheap, then really nothing special, imo.


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## gsdmom (Jul 1, 2010)

its 35 pounds for $117 dollars just not sure it is worth that, or if my picky eater will like it. Plus I cant find anyone locally to buy it.


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## jdatwood (Apr 13, 2009)

gsdmom said:


> its 35 pounds for $117 dollars just not sure it is worth that, or if my picky eater will like it. Plus I cant find anyone locally to buy it.


It's not worth it. There are FAR better foods on the market for the same price or even cheaper.


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

jdatwood said:


> It's not worth it. There are FAR better foods on the market for the same price or even cheaper.


the only one I can think of more expensive is ZiwiPeak...and it's leaps and bounds better than Abady.... but still not worth the price tag in my opinion.


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## Guest (Jul 21, 2010)

On the subject of Abady Feeds. I had been considering fostering a Fidelco guide dog puppy. Fidelco is located right here in Connecticut, where I live. So, as I was reading through the fostering information, I came across this: "Fosters must provide food for their foster pups. Food must be purchased at Fidelco." I decided to email the foster coordinator to inquire what brand of food we are required to feed. The answer: ABADY. Fidelco sells the raw, granular, and kibble and it is expected that all Fidelco pups will be fed exclusively ABADY feeds. Fosters sign a contract stating same. 

For an organization such as Fidelco to put their trust in Abady Feeds says a lot, in my opinion. After all, they are producing guide dogs for the blind.


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## dobesgalore (Oct 21, 2009)

gsdmom said:


> its 35 pounds for $117 dollars just not sure it is worth that, or if my picky eater will like it. Plus I cant find anyone locally to buy it.


Holy cow at that price!


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

That doesn't mean anything in my book, especially since the "Delta Society" has said it will not allow dogs in its program that are fed a raw diet. You can put in anything you want in your contracts, they probably having a buying incentive with Abady.


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## buddy97 (Mar 29, 2010)

LabbieMama said:


> For an organization such as Fidelco to put their trust in Abady Feeds says a lot, in my opinion. After all, they are producing guide dogs for the blind.


there are well renowned guide dog schools throughout the country that have essentially contracted to feed certain foods...and a few of them are foods you can buy in a grocery store....so i dont put too much stock into that.


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## Guest (Jul 21, 2010)

gsdmom said:


> its 35 pounds for $117 dollars just not sure it is worth that, or if my picky eater will like it. Plus I cant find anyone locally to buy it.


Is that for the granular? The largest bag of Abady kibble is 20 pounds and it sells for about $35. Two kinds of Abady kibble available - New York Naturals (lamb & rice) and New Frontier (chicken meal) the lamb being slightly more expensive.


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

LabbieMama said:


> For an organization such as Fidelco to put their trust in Abady Feeds says a lot, in my opinion. After all, they are producing guide dogs for the blind.


I bet the food is donated. I volunteered at a service dog org and their food was donated. Can't remember the brand but it wasn't a top brand. Maybe Iams but I'm not sure.


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

LabbieMama said:


> For an organization such as Fidelco to put their trust in Abady Feeds says a lot, in my opinion. After all, they are producing guide dogs for the blind.


This really holds no water in my book. Doesn't AAHA put their trust in Science Diet? 
What one group or organization (ESPECIALLY one making money off of a product) recommends means nothing to me unless their decisions make sense. Abady doesn't.


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## Doc (Jan 17, 2009)

They require feeding Abady because they reduced their incidents of HD tremendously when they started feeding Abady years ago. I've fed Abady before. My dogs did extremely well on it. I would suggest if you have no first hand knowledge or experience with the product, your opinions - which are based on what? the lable? - should not be so critical. That is true with any product.


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## buddy97 (Mar 29, 2010)

Doc said:


> They require feeding Abady because they reduced their incidents of HD tremendously when they started feeding Abady years ago..


there was no science, no legitimately done studies to support the ridiculous claim that feeding Abady prevents HD. if you read the whole story behind that claim, the conclusion is laughable and causes them to lose alot of credibility with me..

and why is it that everyone supporting Abady on several forums i am on parrots the some version of the following phrase over and over:

_ I would suggest if you have no first hand knowledge or experience with the product, your opinions - which are based on what? the lable? - should not be so critical. _

how dare anyone look at the label...whats in the food...and judge the food...you must feed it before you are allowed to be critical of it. ridiculous. better to judge Abady on some of the ridiculous claims they make, or because a guide dog school uses it, or some breeders endorse it.

oh, never mind...there are breeders who strongly endorse Purina and guide dog schools in other parts of the country that endorse and will only feed Iams.


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## Guest (Jul 22, 2010)

RawFedDogs said:


> I bet the food is donated. I volunteered at a service dog org and their food was donated. Can't remember the brand but it wasn't a top brand. Maybe Iams but I'm not sure.


The foster coordinator has informed me that, no, the food is NOT donated. The organization purchases the food from Abady. The organization selected that food based on its quality, after the organization did some research.

There is plenty of literature available on Abady Feeds. It is available online or at any store that stocks the products. Free samples are also available at the feed store that carries this brand.


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## Doc (Jan 17, 2009)

I am not endorsing the product. I am just relaying the information on the reason why they require the use of a particular product. I never said it was real science or that the product prevents HD.

I've been feeding dogs long before kibble was popular. Some things that appear to be useless on a label may actually be a decent ingredient in the right proportion.

Again, I am not defending any one particular product. All dogs are different and therefore some may do well on "bad" food while others do poorly. 

And I do believe that first hand experience is an important factor; for this reason. Many years ago I had a pure-bred pup that had digestion issues - this was long before EPI, SIBO, etc. were ever heard of. As a last result, we fed the pup Pedigree. This sickly small runt pup ate Pedigree for over 13 years and died in it's sleep. Not bad for a German Shepherd. So to say that a particular food is not good for a dog is a generalization that is not always the case.


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## Unosmom (May 3, 2009)

ick...cruddy, overpriced and inaccessible, no thanks


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## Guest (Jul 22, 2010)

Doc said:


> ...... This sickly small runt pup ate Pedigree for over 13 years and died in it's sleep. Not bad for a German Shepherd. So to say that a particular food is not good for a dog is a generalization that is not always the case.


One of the rescue volunteers I work with has a GSD that eats only Pedigree because its the only food that will agree with its digestive issues.


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## Guest (Jul 22, 2010)

Unosmom said:


> ick...cruddy, overpriced and inaccessible, no thanks


I have to agree that the granular does have ICK factor!! But the kibble is just like any other kibble in shape and size.


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## jdatwood (Apr 13, 2009)

LabbieMama said:


> the kibble is just like any other kibble in shape and size.


and inappropriate ingredients :tongue:


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## Doc (Jan 17, 2009)

jdatwood said:


> and inappropriate ingredients :tongue:


Isn't this a thread on Dry and Can Dog Food? Your editorializing is out of place in this thread.

Your pro raw feeding comments should be in the Raw thread. Besides, what did you feed your dogs pre 2007?


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## jdatwood (Apr 13, 2009)

Doc said:


> Isn't this a thread on Dry and Can Dog Food? Your editorializing is out of place in this thread.
> 
> Your pro raw feeding comments should be in the Raw thread. Besides, what did you feed your dogs pre 2007?


I never said anything about raw. I have just as much right to make comments as you. It's a fact that Abady and all kibble contain inappropriate ingredients.

Do you really feel that lard, white rice, etc are appropriate for a carnivore?

Get the chip off your shoulder Doc. It's getting old 

and thanks for asking... my dogs have never eaten anything but raw (except what they were fed the first 8 weeks of their life).


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## Doc (Jan 17, 2009)

jdatwood said:


> I never said anything about raw. I have just as much right to make comments as you. It's a fact that Abady and all kibble contain inappropriate ingredients.
> 
> Do you really feel that lard, white rice, etc are appropriate for a carnivore?
> 
> ...


So you have only been feeding dogs since 2007???? For someone so inexperienced, you sure are a know it all.

So you can only speak about can and kibble based on what? What you read (assuming you can read) or what you have been told by raw feeders?

No chip on my shoulder - just years and years of experience and knowledge. I will take that over your 3 years of feeding raw any day.


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## jdatwood (Apr 13, 2009)

Doc said:


> So you have only been feeding dogs since 2007???? For someone so inexperienced, _you sure are a know it all_.
> 
> So you can only speak about can and kibble based on what? What you read (_assuming you can read_) or what you have been told by raw feeders?
> 
> No chip on my shoulder - just years and years of experience and knowledge. I will take that over your 3 years of feeding raw any day.


I sure have and I'm quite proud of what I've learned since 2007.

Now now Doc, no need to start throwing around petty insults. That behavior won't be tolerated. Clean up your act or take your banter elsewhere. You've been warned.


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## Doc (Jan 17, 2009)

jdatwood said:


> I sure have and I'm quite proud of what I've learned since 2007.
> 
> Now now Doc, no need to start throwing around petty insults. That behavior won't be tolerated. Clean up your act or take your banter elsewhere. You've been warned.


So what's after your warning? A talk with Mr. Bill? 

No petty insults, just facts. You are a novice in the world of dog feeding and haven't every fed can or kibble; so how can you make derogatory statements as if they are facts?


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## jdatwood (Apr 13, 2009)

Doc said:


> So what's after your warning? A talk with Mr. Bill?
> 
> No petty insults, just facts. You are a novice in the world of dog feeding and haven't every fed can or kibble; so how can you make derogatory statements as if they are facts?


What's to talk to Bill about? I'm a moderator just as he is. I've given you a warning. If you can't act like and adult without throwing around petty insults you won't be welcome to post here. Simple enough. Heed the warning or move on.

Thanks for your time.



Doc said:


> *you sure are a know it all.
> 
> (assuming you can read)*


I would call these petty attempts at insulting me. 

and BTW, I don't have to have fed kibble or canned to be able to look at the ingredients and form an opinion based on my research. Just because you've poured some doom nuggets into a bowl for your dog for 90 years now doesn't make you ANY more educated on the contents. Ignorance is bliss 'eh?

Again I ask you, Do you really feel that lard, white rice, etc are appropriate for a carnivore? With your wealth of experience pouring kibble in a bowl surely you can answer that simple question.


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## Doc (Jan 17, 2009)

jdatwood said:


> What's to talk to Bill about? I'm a moderator just as he is. I've given you a warning. If you can't act like and adult without throwing around petty insults you won't be welcome to post here. Simple enough. Heed the warning or move on.
> 
> Thanks for your time.
> 
> ...


If I wanted to insult you, they wouldn't be petty and these are not insults. And don't insult my intelligence by telling me you know things about can and kibble based on reading and *your* research. Talk about insulting ...

First, you assume that a dog is a 100% carnivore - something that is still being debating today. Even Lonsdale speaks of "table scraps and steamed vegetables in a dogs diet, as well as other researchers. So if I do not buy into the 100% carnivore _*theory*_; I can answer your question. Lard - what is it made of? It can be used to supply needed nutritional vitamins,minerals, and FTAs. White rice, also has a nutrient value for pseudo carnivores. 

So the question is not that simple - particularly if the 100% carnivore aspect is debatable - which it is.

If you choose to be committed to the 100% carnivore theory, all of your input and say so into can and kibble is not valid.

You should watch how you respond because your words could be taken as insults too. Then I could slap your wrist and give you points ... Besides, it may surprise what I feed in my kennel - but since you already view me as "ignorant" and too old to comprehend anything I will not bother to tell.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Pretty sure that Doc feeds raw now, but please correct me if I'm wrong.

ETA: Quit the bickering or I will shut this thread down.


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

Alright guys, let's keep it civil. 

Doc- Stating that Abady has species inappropriate ingredients is not pushing a raw agenda in any way, shape, or form. From what I see, YOU were the first to mention raw, not Jon. Jon is a moderator, and whether you agree with him or not, when he tells you to cut the insults, that's what needs to be done... considering it's against forum rules anyway. 

Everyone- Insulting other members of this forum will NOT be tolerated. Clearly we can all read, hence being on the forum, so that insult was not only immature and uncalled for, but petty and a far stretch, too. Lets keep all discussions and debates friendly, and respectful.

And this whole "raw feeders pushing raw" junk is getting really old. PLEASE, before you report posts for this raw agenda mumbo jumbo, and before everyone gets so upset that the word "raw" has been uttered in the kibble/ canned section.... take a double look at WHO brings raw into the discussion. Very, very rarely have I actually seen raw feeders do it. Rest assured if someone brings raw into a discussion, EVERYONE (raw feeders alike!) has a right to respond.


Stating that all kibbles have species inappropriate ingredients is not on any agenda. It's a fact. PROCESSED ANYTHING is species inappropriate to any animal. Does that go to say that all kibble is absolute crap and everyone needs to feed raw? NO. (keep in mind guys, I have a kibble fed dog, and a kibble fed cat)


I'm not sure what's happened to this forum lately, but it seems like more arguing and less intelligent conversation./ Can we all start acting like adults again?


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## buddy97 (Mar 29, 2010)

i feed kibble and i feed raw. however, based on all the research ive done., i simply cant see how it is credible to say any kibble (or processed dog food of any kind) is the most appropriate diet for a canine.

im not going to advocate raw on this thread, but since another poster opened up the idea that the ingredients in kibble are the appropriate diet for a canine, i will say that raw has alot more science and biology supporting it than processed dog food does. id consider biology and evolution worth more than the experience of a processed food user, regardless of how long they have been feeding it.

having said all that, i do use kibble as part of my dogs diet due to certain constraints, and i choose carefully. however, i am very cognizant of the limitations in feeding processed dog food.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

Just my opinion, but it is getting frustrating to feel like people that prefer to feed kibble are ridiculed pretty consistently. Small comments are made here and there, and it gets old, just like you guys say it gets old to hear that raw feeders are pushing their agenda in the dry/canned section.

As someone who feeds kibble, I'm always hesitant to post, because I know which direction the thread is most likely to head in.


I'm sure this will be followed by the moderators saying I'm wrong, but whatever. It's getting frustrating. If you don't feel that kibble is the way to go, then don't post in this section? Because most of the time, posts are just frustrating rather than helpful.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Actually, I will no longer post in the kibble/canned section. I will send a PM if anyone brings up raw from now on. Maybe all the raw feeders should follow suit


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## Doc (Jan 17, 2009)

CorgiPaws said:


> Alright guys, let's keep it civil.
> 
> Doc- Stating that Abady has species inappropriate ingredients is not pushing a raw agenda in any way, shape, or form. From what I see, YOU were the first to mention raw, not Jon. Jon is a moderator, and whether you agree with him or not, when he tells you to cut the insults, that's what needs to be done... considering it's against forum rules anyway.
> 
> ...


I got a nasty gram from you for posting a response in the wrong thread. You even took the liberty to delete my post - which should not have been done (according to another moderator). I just responded as I was responded to by a moderator. Keep your post on target and in the right forum. Didn't you come here a few years back all worried about what to feed your dogs? Post after post centered around kibbles. Now you feed some pets raw and some kibble. And a moderator too. Nothing short of amazing in my eyes. 

I think the insults fly from both parties - posters AND moderators. Re-read some of the post and I think you find it to be the truth. 

You can not have "intelligent" conversation when people are throwing jabs (inappropriate ingredients) in the debate.

What some of you fail to realize is that not everyone buys into the thought that dogs should only eat meat. Wording such as "*predominately* raw carcasses and raw meaty bones" does not imply that a dog must be fed a 100% raw meat diet. Once you understand and accept that there is an other world outside of your personal convictions and paradigm, then intelligent conversation will ensue.

If moderators squelch opposing viewpoints how do you expect to learn and grow? I guess you will be satisfied with your current knowledge base and turn a deaf ear to others.


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## Doc (Jan 17, 2009)

danemama08 said:


> Pretty sure that Doc feeds raw now, but please correct me if I'm wrong.
> 
> ETA: Quit the bickering or I will shut this thread down.


Well, if I do, it's probably not the right raw diet for most folks in here!:smile:


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

Reasons I Post in the Kibble Section and Will NOT Be Stopping

1. I've fed kibble for years, and feel that I have something to add to the conversation. 
2. I've had many BAD experiences with kibbles, particularly the carb content nearly KILLING my Corgi. Because of this experience I DO feel the need to share what I know. I love your dogs.
3. Because this is a forum, dangit, and I can post in any section I dang well please. 
4. Despite the fact that I do believe in raw feeding, I actually know a thing about kibble. *gasp* Imagine that!
5. Because I freaking love dogs. LOVE them. I love my dogs. I love your dogs. If there's something I know that your dogs MIGHT benefit from, I'm gonna say it. Sorry for loving your dog. 
6. I never EVER bring up raw in this section. Ever. If I see a post that I feel "Oh man, this dog has Issue X and there's no kibble that will help at all, this is a raw-or-death situation," I take it to a friendly PM. Again, sorry for loving your dogs. 


BY ALL MEANS, Kibble Feeders, mosey on over to the raw section and post all you want. If you have something beneficial to add to a conversation over there, DO IT, we'd love to hear it, ALL input is welcome. 

What I can promise you kibblers is that I will not "push" raw in any section.
I will not bring raw into the conversation in this section. 
I WILL respond to posts made by other concerning raw feeding. I will also correct any misconceptions or false statements made about raw. 
I will give warning to others who push raw. 


If y'all want something done about raw being brought up in the kibble section, then sure, I'll start giving infractions and warnings to anyone who so much as utters "raw." 
"I don't want to feed raw because [enter reason that makes no sense]" -warning. 
"I tried feeding raw meat but it didn't work out because [enter a mistake made in raw feeding, easily corrected by a simple response]" -warning
"I don't know enough about raw to feed it, so..." -warning
"My dog is allergic to chicken, so I can't feed raw" - warning

THESE are the kinds of statements that start raw talk. So, We moderators will put an end to them. 

*BOTTOM LINE: If you don't want responses to something you post, DON'T post it. *


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Well said Linsey but I guess I just am tired of being made out to be someone who is unhelpful here in the kibble section, even though like you I have experience in feeding kibble and before the switch to raw I had no interest in it whatsoever.. So I just won't anymore. There are plenty of people to answer questions so I won't step in.


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## Doc (Jan 17, 2009)

Will you also write citation to other moderators who push raw and insult kibble feeders by their self-righteous pias comments????

Oh yeah, and give them points too! How many points do I need to collect before I get the prize?


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## Doc (Jan 17, 2009)

danemama08 said:


> Well said Linsey but I guess I just am tired of being made out to be someone who is unhelpful here in the kibble section, even though like you I have experience in feeding kibble and before the switch to raw I had no interest in it whatsoever.. So I just won't anymore. There are plenty of people to answer questions so I won't step in.


I was told that experience means nothing. Sad, but that is what I was told. 

I think if one can contribute to the kibble topic without their "raw" blinders in place, then any input is helpful. But if it is tainted with an undercurrent of "raw is the only real way to feed a dog", then the information is biased.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

You guys are getting incredibly dramatic and defensive about it. You're taking it way past what I was saying.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

It's not just what you're saying, it's what a lot of the kibble feeders say and since I'm a well known raw feeder in this community I will choose not to post here since my information will seem biased because of what I feed. It's not dramatic, it's what kible feeders would prefer. And there are plenty of expericed kibble only feeders on here capable of asking peoples questions.

My only objective is to keep the peace.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

Doc said:


> I was told that experience means nothing. Sad, but that is what I was told.
> 
> I think if one can contribute to the kibble topic without their "raw" blinders in place, then any input is helpful. But if it is tainted with an undercurrent of "raw is the only real way to feed a dog", then the information is biased.


doc...experience doesn't mean anything....

here's an old russian story....my great grandmother baked roasts in two pans...and her daughter did the same...and her daughter did the same, until one generation said, mom...why do you use two pans when you bake a roast?

and the mother said..you know? i can't answer that question. let me ask your grandmother, who said, when asked....ya know? i can't answer that question, let me ask your great grandmother, who said...

what's wrong with you? we do it because we never had pans large enough.

the point of the story is that just because 'that's the way everyone believes, doesn't make it correct or appropriate, to use the flammatory word...

personally, i think it's great that raw feeders venture over to the kibble side of things and personally, i wish the kibble side would venture over to the raw side and let's come to a meeting and have a dialogue...

i've had dogs all of my life and i'm in my fifties...i'd say my experiences with kibble count for something....

if the world wants to feed kibble, fine...but consider this.

threads start many times with this question -- is this a good food...

in all good conscience, if someone is feeding nutro....i cannot and will not let it pass by.

why?

for a few reasons...one, i went to medical school and unfortunately or fortunately, some things sunk in.

two? i've been studying nutrition for about five years

three? i've been studying ingredients in dog food for about two years....

and when i hear about nutro....who uses menadione in their product, i want to shout, i want to go over to the person's house and replace it with ANYTHING...because anything is better than this product.....

anecdotal? sure......but three out of my four dogs had elevated liver enzymes....and i'm not talking about numbers that indicate aging...i'm talking off the wall numbers....blood work is not subjective....

i'm sorry to all kibble feeders....if you're offended or you think we sound like a broken record.

but, in all truth?

i have fed kibble.....i've been called closed minded because i now believe in my heart of hearts and brain and soul that raw is the way and the light....

sometimes a knowing of something is just that....it's a knowing...

so my mind was open when i fed kibble, fed home cooked, then fed raw.

how many kibble people have fed raw....or researched it....before saying no.

so....who is close minded? who is narrow?

and inappropriate ingredients is just that....plus, it's an opinion...which we all have. 

and a forum allows for choices...post. don't post. read. don't read.

i come here for advice and to read what others are doing.....

i don't get why people are offended that raw folks post in this section...is it exclusive?


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

Doc said:


> I got a nasty gram from you for posting a response in the wrong thread. You even took the liberty to delete my post - which should not have been done (according to another moderator).


A nasty gram? Excuse me? YES, I recall deleting your post. I don't recall what the post was about (either raw feeding in the wrong section, or insulting another member, not sure which it was). I also remember ASKING the mods if I made the right move. Some said yes, some said they would have done it differently. That's why there's MULTIPLE moderators, we all get to make our OWN calls so no ONE person decides what goes and what doesn't. Some mods give infractions for small insults. Some won't. Some correct ALL foul language. Some only edit a few select four letter words. Balance. 
I did not, by any means send you a "nasty gram" in fact, I do recall being friendly. But, open forum is not the place to take up PERSONAL issues. 



Doc said:


> Keep your post on target and in the right forum. Didn't you come here a few years back all worried about what to feed your dogs? Post after post centered around kibbles. Now you feed some pets raw and some kibble. And a moderator too. Nothing short of amazing in my eyes.


Please expand on this for me. Yes, I did come here a few years back. I had ZERO interest in raw. I'd go so far as to say I was "against" raw because of the marketing mumbo jumbo from the dog food companies I heard my whole life. I have said many times, THANK YOU to the raw feeders who recognized Grissom's issues as life-threatening and urged me to look into raw. Without this forum, and without THOSE big bad raw feeders, he'd be dead. I for one an thankful he's alive and well. Being a "moderator" does not mean that our opinions are right or wrong. it means that we spend enough time on this forum to be around when spam hits (which does daily) to remove it, when outright attacks happen, and to keep foul language out of the threads. It wouldn't matter if you fed sawdust to do that. It just so happens that the community of raw feeders are online more than most. 




Doc said:


> I think the insults fly from both parties - posters AND moderators. Re-read some of the post and I think you find it to be the truth.


My apologies, I had no idea that "posters" and "moderators" had their own parties. I thought we were all just members of a forum, here to both educate and learn. 



Doc said:


> You can not have "intelligent" conversation when people are throwing jabs (inappropriate ingredients) in the debate.


Mmkay. Let me get this straight. You can not have intelligent conversation between two people who don't agree? I for one have seen every single raw feeder on this forum recommend one kibble over another. If Jon was a grain-free kibble feeder, and said that Abady had species appropriate ingredients because it has rice (which, is exactly the ingredient he was referring to. the rice) would he then be throwing jabs, or would that be considered having conversation? it's not a secret who feeds what around here, but come on. Saying rice is a species inappropriate ingredient is now "throwing jabs" if it comes from a raw feeder?! There are PLENTY of kibble feeders on this forum that would say the same dang thing!



Doc said:


> If moderators squelch opposing viewpoints how do you expect to learn and grow? I guess you will be satisfied with your current knowledge base and turn a deaf ear to others.


Wrong. Since being on this forum, I have gone from kibble, to kibble and canned, to kibble with raw, to pre made raw, to prey model raw with no tripe, to prey model raw with tripe. I'd say I've done a lot of listening to the recommendations of others and keeping an open mind. 



Doc said:


> Will you also write citation to other moderators who push raw and insult kibble feeders by their self-righteous pias comments????


Sure. But they'll have to do a while lot more than to say that rice is inappropriate for dogs. 





You know, Natalie, it's a shame to me that you'll stop posting in the kibble and canned section. I'm sorry that some people get so touchy about tiny things, but take a look at the "top thanked" section. And the "top poster" section. I'd say that you do a whole lot of good around here. You (and Rachel, Bill, Jon, and Myself!) have helped a lot of people will all kinds of questions across the board. From ingredients, to health, to training and behavior, to kibble, to raw. Crap happens, but don't let it end all the good that is done around here. I'm sorry if our being raw feeders AND moderators at the same time is offensive to others... but take a look at who is around here the most, contributes the most, and who the members of the forum have given the most thanks to. Oh, ironic, those people are mods.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

Here's the thing, I'd love to hear people's opinions, information, etc.

I think raw feeders have a TON to offer.

It just gets discouraging when little comments are made (and these are the ones I can remember off the top of my head at the moment) like "potato, much?" or "WHY would you want to feed your CARNIVORE something that includes the words 'a la veg'?"

Those comments aren't helpful, and they come across as pretty snarky and in turn, makes it sort of discouraging to post about kibble feeding. 

There are better ways to say things. My favorite saying is "Mean what you say, say what you mean, but don't say it mean."


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## spookychick13 (Jan 26, 2010)

This thread and argument is why I barely come here anymore.
I am absolutely astounded by how aggressive people are about dog food. Some people are clearly here just to troll. They disappear for months on end and come back to start these ridiculous arguments or jump on someone's back just because they assume a person is pushing an agenda.

I really think people need to take a step back and talk to each other politely.
I am 99.9% sure that people wouldn't argue like this in person.

Try to behave, eh?


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Linsey I think it's a shame too, but I'm just over it right now. I'm sure I will cool down in a bit. It's just lately I feel wrongly accused too much :frown:


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

danemama08 said:


> Linsey I think it's a shame too, but I'm just over it right now. I'm sure I will cool down in a bit. It's just lately I feel wrongly accused too much :frown:


Well smile, dangit. :biggrin:
Go snuggle on Bailey. That'll do the trick!!
I was pretty dang annoyed.. until Annie came and put her favorite toy in my lap and fell asleep at my feet. "Here, Mom. Cuz make it all better! I knows, it works!"


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

I truly hope I did not upset or offend anyone. Cause despite my feelings, I like all of you. If I didn't, I would have just left the forum after feeling frustrated.


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## Doc (Jan 17, 2009)

I would suggest that the main reason someone ends up as a moderator is the amount of time one spends in here. I think knowledge is on the list somewhere but not near the top. It is a us vs. them in here Corgi. Wake up and smell the roses. Look who is left after a few years - not entirely the same crowd who directed you through your troubles. And if they are here, they rarely post. It's great that you and danemamma, and jdatwood, all sing from the same book - wonderful. But where are the voices from the past? The ones who built and guided this forum long before the current moderators took over? They are silent. eventually kibble feeders leave - that's a fact. And if you ask why, they all say they were tired of having the raw agenda pushed down their throats. I'm not making that up - ask a few of them. This isn't a forum on dog nutrition - it is a forum about the preceived "advantages" of raw feeding. After so much of raw this and raw that - no matter what thread you post in - it gets old. 

Now tie yourself in your seat because this next statement will blow your head off. *I FEED RAW*. And I have been for years, make that many years. But i will not push my beliefs on anyone. If they ask, I will tell. If you state that kibble contains "inappropriate" stuff - explain why you think so. To off the cuff say "that is crap" is not helping anyone. Explain why it is crap. And there has to be more to the discussion other than "Dogs are carnivores and don't need anything but meat." That is a weak point at best.

And I will paraphrase "when there is a lack of leadership, people will listen to anyone that steps up to the microphone."

"Ask not what your dog food can do for you, ask what you can do for your dog food".


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## spookychick13 (Jan 26, 2010)

Doc: This last post you put up is exactly what I am talking about.
Over the top dramatic and frankly, ridiculous.
But that has always been your shtick, hasn't it?

Whatever, keep on trolling and personally attacking people...obviously someone thinks you contribute to this forum in some way.


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

Doc said:


> I would suggest that the main reason someone ends up as a moderator is the amount of time one spends in here. I think knowledge is on the list somewhere but not near the top.


Bingo. And those here all the most happen to be raw feeders. They are not mods BECAUSE they are raw feeders. 
And knowledge is a very, very debatable issue.



Doc said:


> Look who is left after a few years - not entirely the same crowd who directed you through your troubles.


Well, let's see. I recall getting the most help from: RFD, Jon, natalie, and Rachel, all of which are still here. On every forum, members come and go. Not everyone will stick around forever. A few will, but not many. This is overlooked on most forums, because most forums are much larger, but it's the same concept on a different scale. 



Doc said:


> eventually kibble feeders leave - that's a fact. And if you ask why, they all say they were tired of having the raw agenda pushed down their throats.


Hmm, or they got their answers? Raw feeders, I believe tend to stick around because raw feeding is different every day. Adding things. eliminating them. Different transitioning. 
Kibble feeders tend to find the food that works, and stick with it. They come, they get their answer, they go. 
Some DO stick around. And for that I'm happy. I'm not denying that some leave because they can't stand to see raw talk... but it's not fair to say that's why "everyone" leaves the forum. 



Doc said:


> Now tie yourself in your seat because this next statement will blow your head off. *I FEED RAW*.


I know that. I think everyone knew that. Why is it supposed to be surprising? 



Doc said:


> If you state that kibble contains "inappropriate" stuff - explain why you think so. To off the cuff say "that is crap" is not helping anyone. Explain why it is crap. And there has to be more to the discussion other than "Dogs are carnivores and don't need anything but meat." That is a weak point at best.


I agree, that more substance would make for better conversation. 
However, if one believes dogs to be carnivores, and through feeding their own dogs have proved that dogs don't need anything more than that, are they not welcome to share that just because *you* think it's weak at best? 
I think the point that a certain organization supports Abady is weak, does not make them any less entitled to their opinion. I stated why I think that FOR ME it holds no water.


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

OK!! I think everyone has had an opportunity to get their say in this discussion. I have to admit that I have bitten my tongue and stayed out of it and there was a lot I wanted to say.

I will say that EVERY moderator here is a moderator because I asked them to be. I personally chose each one. I looked at the list of most helpful and most posts and said these are the people I want. Although I don't always agree with everything they do, I am very happy with the job they have done. Anytime I am not happy, only me and that person knows.

I think enough has been said in this discussion. Unless you have something to positive to say, I ask that you cool it for a while, else the lock goes on.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Closing this thread now :frown:


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