# Dogs, Fish, and Mercury



## Sheltielover25 (Jan 18, 2011)

This is why I don't supplement with fish oils (this applies to oils, too) or fish other than sardines once or twice a month.

Fish fed dogs have elevated mercury levels Dr. Dobias Healing Solutions

Interesting article and please be careful feeding cheap fish oils! I do wish they'd punctuated the title better lol


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## Sheltielover25 (Jan 18, 2011)

Sheltielover25 said:


> This is why I don't supplement with fish oils (this applies to oils, too) or fish other than sardines once or twice a month.
> 
> Fish fed dogs have elevated mercury levels Dr. Dobias Healing Solutions
> 
> Interesting article and please be careful feeding cheap fish oils! I do wish they'd punctuated the title better lol


I'm also thinking of doing the test. I just tested my heavy metals and my lead was 12 times what it normally should be and mercury was 5 times. Needless to say, I'll be on a detox plan soon.lol


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

Krill oil is a really good source of Omega 3's, and if I'm not mistaken it either doesn't contain mercury at all, or it's very low levels that can virtually be removed.


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

Doesn't it depend on the fish you feed? I was under the understanding that the smaller the fish the less amount of mercury they have because some fish eat others and add to the mercury levels.


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## shellbell (Sep 24, 2011)

whiteleo said:


> Doesn't it depend on the fish you feed? I was under the understanding that the smaller the fish the less amount of mercury they have because some fish eat others and add to the mercury levels.


Yes it does. Mercury accumulates in fish when they eat other fish. I feel fine feeding things like sardines and mackeral. But obviously salmon would be a concern. I do feed Grizzly Salmon oil, but they check it for mercury.


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## FBarnes (Feb 17, 2013)

I feed some smallish fish but I'm having a really hard time finding raw unsalted oily fish right now. I am getting better and finding sources of grass fed meat at affordable prices so I can forego them altogether because it is a pain in the rear around here getting them. I once drove for over an hour to a store a BARF group said had fresh sardines only to find everyone that lived closer had bought them out. I get tired of the struggle.

Grass fed meat is the real solution, it's just expensive.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

i agree about not buying certain fish, for they are known to have high mercury levels, seafood in particular.....farmed fish, fish from china, etc...

fish oil supplements....well, there is no fda regulation, so it's kind of up to us.....

same goes with feeding fish. the sardines we feed -- we know from where they come......the salmon oil i give, i know from where it comes....

i think it behooves us to find out where our food is coming from, for the dogs and for us.


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

FBarnes said:


> I feed some smallish fish but I'm having a really hard time finding raw unsalted oily fish right now. I am getting better and finding sources of grass fed meat at affordable prices so I can forego them altogether because it is a pain in the rear around here getting them. I once drove for over an hour to a store a BARF group said had fresh sardines only to find everyone that lived closer had bought them out. I get tired of the struggle.
> 
> Grass fed meat is the real solution, it's just expensive.


I have lot's of those nice sardines re was referring to, if you were a little closer I'd send some to you, actually half a case


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## brindle (Mar 14, 2013)

I use a fish oil that comprises of sardines and anchovies-- Cold Water Fish Oil
I'm not worried about it...


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## Sheltielover25 (Jan 18, 2011)

Yeah, I do think i'ts talking about medium to high level mercury fish more so and also very much fish-based kibbles. 

I have the heavy metal test in hand for myself and I have toxic levels of mercury and lead. I've never eat fish very much, so it comes from other sources, obviously, too.

Anyone giving their dogs tap water needs to really think twice though because man, those chemicals in the water are crazy. Throw that in with all the radio and cell phone towers and laptop plugs and microwaves and you wonder why everyone is getting cancer! It's east to say "I'm not worried about it" until you see physical test results that show you should be... lol these things don't come with overt symptoms, ya know.


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## brindle (Mar 14, 2013)

Sheltielover25 said:


> Yeah, I do think i'ts talking about medium to high level mercury fish more so and also very much fish-based kibbles.
> 
> I have the heavy metal test in hand for myself and I have toxic levels of mercury and lead. I've never eat fish very much, so it comes from other sources, obviously, too.
> 
> Anyone giving their dogs tap water needs to really think twice though because man, those chemicals in the water are crazy. Throw that in with all the radio and cell phone towers and laptop plugs and microwaves and you wonder why everyone is getting cancer! It's east to say "I'm not worried about it" until you see physical test results that show you should be... lol these things don't come with overt symptoms, ya know.


I guess we should all live in a safety bubble. That way we'll never die. 
You don't sound very healthy although you tend to be quite paranoid about your health.... stress is the #1 killer so I would just chill out a bit. You'll see improvement immediately. There are other things I would recommend but I'm sure they wouldn't be appropriate for a public forum :hat:
I'm in perfect health regardless of owning a microwave and a cell phone.


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## wolfsnaps88 (Jan 2, 2012)

So much for the nicer, better behaved brindle....

She keeps saying she is not here to be belligerent...and yet.....this ^^^^^


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

Again with the rudeness. No one said anything about living forever. No one asked for your viewpoints on their own health or the way they are happy to live and the safeguards they place around themselves and their families. An interesting post was started and you stated you were happy with what you feed (fish oil caps) great. Attacking a person's way of way life was not necessary and your recommendations were not desired. Trying to eat and live in the least toxic way possible is something I find to be intelligent and definitely not deserving of your sarcastic commentary. Live the way you want and leave others to their lifestyle. 

Liz



brindle said:


> I guess we should all live in a safety bubble. That way we'll never die.
> You don't sound very healthy although you tend to be quite paranoid about your health.... stress is the #1 killer so I would just chill out a bit. You'll see improvement immediately. There are other things I would recommend but I'm sure they wouldn't be appropriate for a public forum :hat:
> I'm in perfect health regardless of owning a microwave and a cell phone.


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## brindle (Mar 14, 2013)

wolfsnaps88 said:


> So much for the nicer, better behaved brindle....
> 
> She keeps saying she is not here to be belligerent...and yet.....this ^^^^^


Nothing about what I said was ill behaved. 
She is very concerned about the small things in life, she is creating (or exacerbating) ill health by worrying. 
Stressing about the most minute details (such as the amount of mercury in sardines) isn't going to help with your health at all. 
Good luck sheltie lover.


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## brindle (Mar 14, 2013)

Liz said:


> Again with the rudeness. No one said anything about living forever. No one asked for your viewpoints on their own health or the way they are happy to live and the safeguards they place around themselves and their families. An interesting post was started and you stated you were happy with what you feed (fish oil caps) great. Attacking a person's way of way life was not necessary and your recommendations were not desired. Trying to eat and live in the least toxic way possible is something I find to be intelligent and definitely not deserving of your sarcastic commentary. Live the way you want and leave others to their lifestyle.
> 
> Liz


Of course take the obvious steps to be healthy, but to dissect literally every aspect of your lifestyle, environment, diet etc. is in my opinion- counter productive (the disease of stress is very real). 
I'm almost certain most of us on here don't like EVERY opinion that comes our way.


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## wolfsnaps88 (Jan 2, 2012)

Brindle, what does your opinion of the OP's lifestyle have to do with mercury and dogs???


NOTHING!!!!!


Lets stick to the topic, shall we?


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

Everyone please take a deep breath.

I think Brindle does bring up a valid point when it comes to dog ownership, or life in general. I've done it myself, where you sit and worry about every.little.thing that you could possibly do better for your animal. At some point though, you have to just live, and enjoy your pets and love them. I mean really...I drink tap water, the dogs drink tap water...I even went into panic mode for a brief second reading this...and then I calmed myself down.

I didn't find Brindles post belligerent or anything, so lets all just try to calm down.


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## brindle (Mar 14, 2013)

wolfsnaps88 said:


> Brindle, what does your opinion of the OP's lifestyle have to do with mercury and dogs???
> 
> 
> NOTHING!!!!!
> ...


Risking sounding like a 5 year old-- she began the conversation concerning people and mercury/heavy metals and microwaves.


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## brindle (Mar 14, 2013)

meggels said:


> Everyone please take a deep breath.
> 
> I think Brindle does bring up a valid point when it comes to dog ownership, or life in general. I've done it myself, where you sit and worry about every.little.thing that you could possibly do better for your animal. At some point though, you have to just live, and enjoy your pets and love them. I mean really...I drink tap water, the dogs drink tap water...I even went into panic mode for a brief second reading this...and then I calmed myself down.
> 
> I didn't find Brindles post belligerent or anything, so lets all just try to calm down.


Thank you for the vote of confidence meggels lol. I also drink tap water, although I do filter it (not sure if that helps anything). 
When my time comes, there is literally nothing I can do about it.


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## brindle (Mar 14, 2013)

*removed*

(too short)


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

naturalfeddogs said:


> Krill oil is a really good source of Omega 3's, and if I'm not mistaken it either doesn't contain mercury at all, or it's very low levels that can virtually be removed.


i've heard that, too, but i've also read where the company from which you buy might not be using 100% krill.....as with anything else not regulated by the fda and many things that are...check the source and buy quality.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

brindle said:


> I use a fish oil that comprises of sardines and anchovies-- Cold Water Fish Oil
> I'm not worried about it...


there are some things i don't eat...no stress ...simply because i took the time to research ingredients.....in my case, my health and life depend on what i eat.....i also have a dog whose immune system is not so good.

i am not pre occupied with death or dying, but when my time comes, i'd rather not be the hand that feeds it....if that makes sense.

so when i look at a product, i try to stick with the lesser of evils.....because there are some things going on about which we should be concerned....

the fish oil you use would send my dog into an allergic reaction, simply because it uses soy and he has a problem with it. 

reading ingredients and knowing what is polluted and what isn't...to me, at least, is important.


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## brindle (Mar 14, 2013)

magicre said:


> there are some things i don't eat...no stress ...simply because i took the time to research ingredients.....in my case, my health and life depend on what i eat.....i also have a dog whose immune system is not so good.
> 
> i am not pre occupied with death or dying, but when my time comes, i'd rather not be the hand that feeds it....if that makes sense.
> 
> ...


Does it use soy? I never even noticed that! Did you find the ingredients somewhere? I'm not currently using it as I ran out but I really didn't know there was soy in it..? Crazy.


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## NewfieAussie (Feb 19, 2013)

FBarnes said:


> I feed some smallish fish but I'm having a really hard time finding raw unsalted oily fish right now. I am getting better and finding sources of grass fed meat at affordable prices so I can forego them altogether because it is a pain in the rear around here getting them. I once drove for over an hour to a store a BARF group said had fresh sardines only to find everyone that lived closer had bought them out. I get tired of the struggle.
> 
> Grass fed meat is the real solution, it's just expensive.


Barnes, I could probably hook you up with half a beef as I am sitting here looking at a meadow of about 120 mama cows. Maybe I should feed raw, living in the perfect setup with grass fed cattle, guineas I cant stand and the farm to the south, the neighbor runs the slaughter/packing house in town, a good friend that's always dropping by with meat in exchange for firewood. But I'll stick with Dr Tims Pursuit, it is packed with meat and no risk of a perforated bowel.

Mod: If I wasn't suppose to mention my dog food here please delete that part, sorry, don't want to break any rules.


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## Tobi (Mar 18, 2011)

Perforated bowels, sounds scary...don't cook the bones you won't have to worry about perforated bowels.

We haven't had any issues with elevated levels in tobi, winter he had a full workout and it was fine, we've been feeding quality fish, and oils.


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## brindle (Mar 14, 2013)

Tobi said:


> Perforated bowels, sounds scary...don't cook the bones you won't have to worry about perforated bowels.
> 
> We haven't had any issues with elevated levels in tobi, winter he had a full workout and it was fine, we've been feeding quality fish, and oils.


Sorry but perforations can be cause by anything sharp. A raw bone can be VERY sharp.


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## NewfieAussie (Feb 19, 2013)

Tobi, don't know anything about feeding raw, my grandpa would just turn the hounds out to feast on a dead deer when the snow was on. I just read about dogs straining to go to the bathroom and it sounds like a bone and flesh are wedged in the bowel. Can't go there with my poochies, I like it already ground up. 

I like your dog and bet you guys have good furniture in NC! lol!


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## Tobi (Mar 18, 2011)

Yeah, our furniture is something to be desired, the wait till kids grow up and leave is on...once they leave will will be... Replacing it lol Lots of furniture malls here though!

What a wonderful point as always skadoosh, perforations can indeed be made by anything sharp, but since raw bones are broken down with relative ease in a dogs very acidic stomach they pose little threat as oposed to cooked bones or plastic toys.


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## NewfieAussie (Feb 19, 2013)

Off topic: Is Hickory furniture made in your town? Once my daughter quit jumping on furniture I studied up on furniture and the very best comes from NC. Got a few pieces, wish I had more. A couple of my chairs are either Hickory brand or Old Hickory.

But now to feeding dogs, the risk is there for a bowel perforation. Seriously, I've seen it with my own eyes from uncooked bone, actually deer bones drug in from the woods. Bowel perforated, dog died. Maybe their bowel wasn't acclimated to digesting bone, but it can happen. Would not wish it on any pup, just could never take a chance myself. Heck, I even put life jackets on my dogs when they swim in the lake. Even my Newfie, a water dog!


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## Sheltielover25 (Jan 18, 2011)

NewfieAussie said:


> Off topic: Is Hickory furniture made in your town? Once my daughter quit jumping on furniture I studied up on furniture and the very best comes from NC. Got a few pieces, wish I had more. A couple of my chairs are either Hickory brand or Old Hickory.
> 
> But now to feeding dogs, the risk is there for a bowel perforation. Seriously, I've seen it with my own eyes from uncooked bone, actually deer bones drug in from the woods. Bowel perforated, dog died. Maybe their bowel wasn't acclimated to digesting bone, but it can happen. Would not wish it on any pup, just could never take a chance myself. Heck, I even put life jackets on my dogs when they swim in the lake. Even my Newfie, a water dog!


Well considering Rocks, wood, corn cobs all sorts of toys, and garbage are the highest causes of perforated bowels I'm not sure I'd worry too much about a raw bone overall. Sure, it's happened, but think about this: I'd be willing to bet serious cash more dogs choke on that dry, hard kibble each year than perforated bowels from a raw bone. Oh, and not to mention how many get serious disease due to the tarter that is allowed to build up when one doesn't get the tooth brush nature designed for them. 

They're more likely being killed by the emissions from your laptop, microwave, cell phone, cell phone/cable/all towers, and so much more than a perforated bone; but we don't not use those items because they kill is. 

Not pushing a bone on you, but I mean this is the raw section so when you say things like we can't help but wonder how anyone could give up all the benefits a bone, what they're designed to eat, due to one could, in a rare blue moon, have a perforated bowel from it. No one gives up toys but in reality most of them are made with horrible chemicals, dyes, paints, toxic chemicals through and through. People are funny with their thinking.


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## Tobi (Mar 18, 2011)

NewfieAussie said:


> Off topic: Is Hickory furniture made in your town? Once my daughter quit jumping on furniture I studied up on furniture and the very best comes from NC. Got a few pieces, wish I had more. A couple of my chairs are either Hickory brand or Old Hickory.
> 
> But now to feeding dogs, the risk is there for a bowel perforation. Seriously, I've seen it with my own eyes from uncooked bone, actually deer bones drug in from the woods. Bowel perforated, dog died. Maybe their bowel wasn't acclimated to digesting bone, but it can happen. Would not wish it on any pup, just could never take a chance myself. Heck, I even put life jackets on my dogs when they swim in the lake. Even my Newfie, a water dog!


There are some awesome furniture places here, there are a few malls that if you don't go in with less than 10k yu won't come out with a sofa and love seat, amazing quality and massive amounts of it....I'm not sure if that particular brand comes from here or not I'm not originally from here my wife says however about 5-8 years ago many of them went out of business, she said only the best ones survived the little crash we had.:wof:

I agree it can happen, it's a scary proposition, but myself having had a dog that died to complications from a zipper surgery for swallowing a sock, it just makes feeding something that is for the most part wholly digestible easier. It's a totally personal choice, and I would use a life jacket for mine too lol! Of course he just sinks...

On topic I forgot to add tobi was eating some of the Brooke trout when we went hiking, I can't imagine them being high in mercury I believe they mostly eat insects... He didn't catch them, a fisherman was jokingly offerings it to him and tobi took it and chewed down, his expression was priceless!


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

brindle said:


> Does it use soy? I never even noticed that! Did you find the ingredients somewhere? I'm not currently using it as I ran out but I really didn't know there was soy in it..? Crazy.


it uses mixed tocopherols. that is generally soy and possibly sunflower oil as the source.

i read ingredients. then i research them. i don't do it because i'm ocd and worried it's going to kill me. although i probably am a little ocd and eating less than the purest of ingredients, for me, might spell an earlier demise or less than worth it quality of life.

certainly, it's not the only reason i eat a certain way, avoid certain foods, continue my ongoing education, etc....i have found that for me, at least, it improves how i feel day to day, which i think works toward extension of life, rather than limiting it......unless, of course, being left handed, i am victim to the stats about left handed people dying nine years earlier than right handed people...or if that meteor actually does hit the earth and we go poof.

you are right. we cannot nor should we live in such a way that we are trying not to die. how boring that would be and genetics are something that loom over us, as do drunk drivers and full moons.

but. if a genetic trigger is never triggered, good chance disease won't happen. if gut flora is healed and regenerated and kept healthy, the core of health restored.....well, one point for me. 

if, in the end, it matters not and my liver gets me anyway or the myriad of other problems i have 'get' me....well, then it does. everyone dies. 

we who discuss foods and nutrients and natural treatments do so in order to preserve the very precious not so easy to balance immune system of ourselves and our dogs.....it's a worthy thing to do ....


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

NewfieAussie said:


> Off topic: Is Hickory furniture made in your town? Once my daughter quit jumping on furniture I studied up on furniture and the very best comes from NC. Got a few pieces, wish I had more. A couple of my chairs are either Hickory brand or Old Hickory.
> 
> But now to feeding dogs, the risk is there for a bowel perforation. Seriously, I've seen it with my own eyes from uncooked bone, actually deer bones drug in from the woods. Bowel perforated, dog died. Maybe their bowel wasn't acclimated to digesting bone, but it can happen. Would not wish it on any pup, just could never take a chance myself. Heck, I even put life jackets on my dogs when they swim in the lake. Even my Newfie, a water dog!


i asked my vet, whom i adore, what the number one cause of bowel perforation was. he told me sticks and rocks. i would imagine that bones can kill a dog. even uncooked ones.

i also know that sweatpants, fried chicken bones careleslly thrown over a fence and other sharp ojects that dogs sometimes get into can kill 

i just don't think it accurate or fair to put a raw bone at the top of the list, when it merely belongs on the list.....but more toward the bottom of what can kill a dog. just sayin'


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## BeagleCountry (Jan 20, 2012)

NewfieAussie said:


> Off topic: Is Hickory furniture made in your town? Once my daughter quit jumping on furniture I studied up on furniture and the very best comes from NC. Got a few pieces, wish I had more. A couple of my chairs are either Hickory brand or Old Hickory.
> 
> But now to feeding dogs, the risk is there for a bowel perforation. Seriously, I've seen it with my own eyes from uncooked bone, actually *deer bones drug in from the woods*. Bowel perforated, dog died. Maybe their bowel wasn't acclimated to digesting bone, but it can happen. Would not wish it on any pup, just could never take a chance myself. Heck, I even put life jackets on my dogs when they swim in the lake. Even my Newfie, a water dog!


Possible desiccation.


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## Elliehanna (Jan 16, 2012)

all this talk of hooking up with half a cow, half a case of sardines...I wish I could get things like that (meat is expensive here because there is only 1 butcher, walmart and 2 grocery stores...none really have competition because of there locations either...so yea I am screwed haha) anyhow...I really stopped feeding fish on a regular basis because of heavy medals

I do have a question..is there a way that is cheap to test the level of mercury in a body of water (thinking of the little lake I fish in) or be able to test a fish easily?


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## NewfieAussie (Feb 19, 2013)

Beagle Country- Could be, I had to look that word up. Absolutely could have been from a desiccated bone.


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## brindle (Mar 14, 2013)

Sheltielover25 said:


> Well considering Rocks, wood, corn cobs all sorts of toys, and garbage are the highest causes of perforated bowels I'm not sure I'd worry too much about a raw bone overall. Sure, it's happened, but think about this: I'd be willing to bet serious cash more dogs choke on that dry, hard kibble each year than perforated bowels from a raw bone. Oh, and not to mention how many get serious disease due to the tarter that is allowed to build up when one doesn't get the tooth brush nature designed for them.
> 
> They're more likely being killed by the emissions from your laptop, microwave, cell phone, cell phone/cable/all towers, and so much more than a perforated bone; but we don't not use those items because they kill is.
> 
> Not pushing a bone on you, but I mean this is the raw section so when you say things like we can't help but wonder how anyone could give up all the benefits a bone, what they're designed to eat, due to one could, in a rare blue moon, have a perforated bowel from it. No one gives up toys but in reality most of them are made with horrible chemicals, dyes, paints, toxic chemicals through and through. People are funny with their thinking.


You know, raw feeders (in particular) have brought up this choking on kibble a lot....
I have fostered MANY dogs, probably more then most people have seen. I have worked with them at the local SPCA as well. I have babysat many and I have owned a few. I have NEVER seen a dog choke on kibble. 
Quite a few I have dealt with have been brachycephalic as well... never once seen a dog choke on it. 
The only thing my dog did choke on was a cow tongue. Go figure.


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## Tobi (Mar 18, 2011)

brindle said:


> You know, raw feeders (in particular) have brought up this choking on kibble a lot....
> I have fostered MANY dogs, probably more then most people have seen. I have worked with them at the local SPCA as well. I have babysat many and I have owned a few. I have NEVER seen a dog choke on kibble.
> Quite a few I have dealt with have been brachycephalic as well... never once seen a dog choke on it.
> The only thing my dog did choke on was a cow tongue. Go figure.


So why do they make those fancy stainless steel balls that specifically say to prevent choking, bloating, vomiting, and gulping? It's also strange that because you have fostered so many it's obviously true that they must not choke on kibble ever... But in your limited raw feeding experience you've seen one choke... Oh my... Anyways, my grandmothers pug nearly choked to death while inhaling his kibble had it not been for gramps it would have been dead... Choking can happen with anything.


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## brindle (Mar 14, 2013)

Tobi said:


> So why do they make those fancy stainless steel balls that specifically say to prevent choking, bloating, vomiting, and gulping? It's also strange that because you have fostered so many it's obviously true that they must not choke on kibble ever... But in your limited raw feeding experience you've seen one choke... Oh my... Anyways, my grandmothers pug nearly choked to death while inhaling his kibble had it not been for gramps it would have been dead... Choking can happen with anything.


My argument wasn't anti-raw and pro-kibble. My point was that choking on kibble is fairly rare. If it was really such a common thing, I would have seen it happen by now. 
We aren't discussing bloating, we are discussing choking. 
Everything you say in your posts directed at me reek of sarcasm and hostility. If you don't wish me to be sarcastic/hostile towards you, perhaps you could return the favor. 
Also: if you are so comfortable feeding raw, why do you jump to its defense so quickly? Especially when there is no attack going on...


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## Tobi (Mar 18, 2011)

brindle said:


> My argument wasn't anti-raw and pro-kibble. My point was that choking on kibble is fairly rare. If it was really such a common thing, I would have seen it happen by now.
> We aren't discussing bloating, we are discussing choking.
> Everything you say in your posts directed at me reek of sarcasm and hostility. If you don't wish me to be sarcastic/hostile towards you, perhaps you could return the favor.
> Also: if you are so comfortable feeding raw, why do you jump to its defense so quickly? Especially when there is no attack going on...


I'm not defensive at all, just curious about mindset, that is all, and I took the description DIRECTLY from one of the items, I'm well aware that we aren't discussing bloating sweetie. I'm sorry that you feel like somebody is being sarcastic or hostile, I was just being blunt is all... But I suppose you could misconstrue it as such. We've certainly had our share of your sharp tongue. :wink:
Also, I didn't defend raw in any way in what I said, I just pointed out that they have developed items to help prevent such things from happening (stainless steel balls). I'll be the first to say that my dog chokes and gags on peices that he cannot get down his throat, he then spits it out and chews it better. I've said it dozens of times in other threads, it's no secret that they do this...


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## brindle (Mar 14, 2013)

Tobi said:


> I'm not defensive at all, just curious about mindset, that is all, and I took the description DIRECTLY from one of the items, I'm well aware that we aren't discussing bloating sweetie. I'm sorry that you feel like somebody is being sarcastic or hostile, I was just being blunt is all... But I suppose you could misconstrue it as such. We've certainly had our share of your sharp tongue. :wink:
> Also, I didn't defend raw in any way in what I said, I just pointed out that they have developed items to help prevent such things from happening (stainless steel balls). I'll be the first to say that my dog chokes and gags on peices that he cannot get down his throat, he then spits it out and chews it better. I've said it dozens of times in other threads, it's no secret that they do this...


You sound defensive 100%. 
I am not as against raw feeding as I once was, so need to become this defensive. 
I must be honest about my experiences though-- my dogs have choked on raw meat/bones and never kibble.
My old dog got a stick stuck in his throat once too. Se la vie, this is dogs for you :wacko:
Edit: may I ask why you feel the need to refer to me as sweetie or girlie? Is it your personal way of being demeaning?


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## Tobi (Mar 18, 2011)

Lol that's exactly what it is! :suspicious:


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## FBarnes (Feb 17, 2013)

Well this site lists bones number EIGHT in a top 10 list of foreign bodies ingested by dogs, and they don't even say if they are raw or cooked. I bet if they split out raw bones they wouldn't be anywhere close to the top 10.

Niles Animal Hospital and Bird Medical Center: Top Ten Foreign Body Items Removed from Dogs


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## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

My Dalmatian and my Brittany nearly choked to death eating kibble. With my Dal it happened more than once.


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## Sheltielover25 (Jan 18, 2011)

brindle said:


> Quite a few I have dealt with have been brachycephalic as well... never once seen a dog choke on it.
> The only thing my dog did choke on was a cow tongue. Go figure.


I'd be willing to bet that was because the human cut it wrong. When humans feed pieces of meat, they can screw it up easily. Given a whole tongue, I doubt they'd choke. 

Besides just because you've never seen it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. The world is a big place, don't think in that small of a mind frame.


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

brindle said:


> You sound defensive 100%.
> I am not as against raw feeding as I once was, so need to become this defensive.
> I must be honest about my experiences though-- my dogs have choked on raw meat/bones and never kibble.
> My old dog got a stick stuck in his throat once too. Se la vie, this is dogs for you :wacko:
> Edit: may I ask why you feel the need to refer to me as sweetie or girlie? Is it your personal way of being demeaning?


Dogs can potentially choke on ANYTHING that goes into their mouth, food or non food.


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## brindle (Mar 14, 2013)

Sheltielover25 said:


> I'd be willing to bet that was because the human cut it wrong. When humans feed pieces of meat, they can screw it up easily. Given a whole tongue, I doubt they'd choke.
> 
> Besides just because you've never seen it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. The world is a big place, don't think in that small of a mind frame.


It was whole. And frozen. To assure that she would eat it slower. 
As I said, I had a large test sample. I have fostered A LOT of dogs in my lifetime.
Of course, it doesn't fit in your ideology so... it simply cannot be true


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## brindle (Mar 14, 2013)

naturalfeddogs said:


> Dogs can potentially choke on ANYTHING that goes into their mouth, food or non food.


Yeah... that's why I mentioned the stick.


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## Tobi (Mar 18, 2011)

brindle said:


> Yeah... that's why I mentioned the stick.


It's okay, no need to be so defensive.:becky:


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## brindle (Mar 14, 2013)

Tobi said:


> It's okay, no need to be so defensive.:becky:


Thanks sweetie.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

Enough with the passive aggressive remarks. Or warnings are going to start going out.


Gosh, you guys make me feel like the mean teacher at school.


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## JLeigh (Jul 15, 2012)

Sheltielover25 said:


> Anyone giving their dogs tap water needs to really think twice though because man, those chemicals in the water are crazy.


Literally yesterday it dawned on me that if I won't drink my city water, why on earth am I giving it to Alice? So, she'll drink the same water that I do from now on. She has chronic eye infection issues, so I'm wondering if the water switch will help...

On the fish topic, I occasionally buy whole mackerel from my local Asian market because it does wonders for her coat. I can't figure out whether this species is farm-raised or not. How much do I need to worry about mackerel?


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## Candyd (Apr 11, 2013)

I agree with tap water. Here everybody including pets has bottled water, because of pesticides which make our water undrinkable.
Mackerel is an excellent wild fish, which is full of DHA and EPA. But I don't know if there is much mercury in it or not.


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## wolfsnaps88 (Jan 2, 2012)

Keep in mind there are several different species of mackeral! Some higher quality than others.

My dogs drink sppring water that I bottle just down the road from my place. Its a busy spring and there often times a line of people.


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## Tobi (Mar 18, 2011)

Candyd said:


> I agree with tap water. Here everybody including pets has bottled water, because of pesticides which make our water undrinkable.
> Mackerel is an excellent wild fish, which is full of DHA and EPA. But I don't know if there is much mercury in it or not.


Bottled water, depending upon the brand, may actually be less clean and safe than tap water. Defined as a “food” under federal regulations, bottled water is under the authority of the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) while the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) – under much stricter standards – regulates tap water. The EPA mandates that local water treatment plants provide city residents with a detailed account of tap water’s source and the results of any testing, including contaminant level violations. Bottled water companies are under no such directives.
Also, while municipal water systems must test for harmful microbiological content in water several times a day, bottled water companies are required to test for these microbes only once a week. I might add that the FDA has about 1 person assigned to the control and standards of the bottled water industry.
Nesté, coke, pepsi are the 3 biggest offenders. Also, water staying in bottles longer leech more chemicals into the water they contain, phalates, and even benzine have been found in higher concentrations just by leaving them sit for an extra week...

A decent R/O filter can cost 200-300 dollars, meanwhile people are more than happy to pay 5-8 dollars per gallon for water... it boggles my mind... :wacko:
In the United States, 24 percent of bottled water sold is either Pepsi’s Aquafina (13 percent of the market) or Coke’s Dasani (11 percent of the market). Both brands are bottled, *purified municipal water.*

ETAr. Gina Solomon, a senior scientist at the Natural Resources Defense Council, the environmental advocacy group, said there is no reason to believe that bottled water is safer than tap water, though there can be problems with either. Page 2
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9905E6DB1430F933A05756C0A9619C8B63

Nestle CEO: Water Is Not A Human Right, Should Be Privatized
http://www.thedailysheeple.com/nestle-ceo-water-is-not-a-human-right-should-be-privatized_042013
These are the types of people you support when buying water they pump for minimal investments.


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## Candyd (Apr 11, 2013)

My region is the biggest European producer of industrial corn and wheat. No wonder why tap water is so bad where I live. Here, tap water is full of very dangerous pesticides like atrazine, and its level of nitrates is just above the legal limit for consumption at several places (that's why it is mixed). I don't buy bottled water from those brands, and here, spring water can only be sold if it's free of pesticides and, in general, almost free of pollution. I know tap water isn't bad everywhere, but here, it's just too unhealthy to be drinkable. Water purifiers don't purify everything, and I don't see what solutions I could have, other than bottled water.


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## Tobi (Mar 18, 2011)

Candyd said:


> My region is the biggest European producer of industrial corn and wheat. No wonder why tap water is so bad where I live. Here, tap water is full of very dangerous pesticides like atrazine, and its level of nitrates is just above the legal limit for consumption at several places (that's why it is mixed). I don't buy bottled water from those brands, and here, spring water can only be sold if it's free of pesticides and, in general, almost free of pollution. I know tap water isn't bad everywhere, but here, it's just too unhealthy to be drinkable. Water purifiers don't purify everything, and I don't see what solutions I could have, other than bottled water.


yeah i understand your situation, you could try a reverse osmosis type filtration, i'm unsure if it will pull everything out (you would have to call the manufacturer to be sure, and possibly a water test to tell what contaminants are there), we have one in our house and it works wonderfully, our state has some of the dirtiest water according to some studies so we use that for much cheaper than any other type of water.
Reverse Osmosis UV System - 6-Stage RO System - Pro Series
They are expensive up front, and they can get much more expensive than even this, but in the long run not buying bottled water would save you money.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

my water has chlorine and fluoride in it.

i'll take my chances with bottled. 

there are water score cards.....eartH20 from oregon is spring water. we drink that.


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## Sheltielover25 (Jan 18, 2011)

I'm glad to see people not using tap water! Another thing to remember for us humans is showering. When we take showers with the hot water our pores open up and those chemicals just flow in. I got a pretty affordable water filter if anyone is interested. One of the best purchases I've made.


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## JLeigh (Jul 15, 2012)

I use reverse osmosis water from my local organic co-op. It's only .30 a gallon, so it's very affordable. On the rare occasion that I drink my tap water, it tastes like pool water. No thanks.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

brindle said:


> Does it use soy? I never even noticed that! Did you find the ingredients somewhere? I'm not currently using it as I ran out but I really didn't know there was soy in it..? Crazy.


yes. i look at ingredients and found a site that lists them. to be honest, i do not remember which one.

mixed tocopherols always includes soy as part of the source for vitamin e. and, generally, it is a gmo soy.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

I drink just plain old city tap water  same with the dogs. Does it really make that much of a difference? If so, would using a Brita or Pur filter be worthwhile or make any difference?? I can't afford anything expensive, and nothing permanent, as I rent, but you guys are scaring me a bit lol.


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## FBarnes (Feb 17, 2013)

I drink tap water and so do my dogs and hummingbirds. I don't trust bottle water, as Tobi pointed out. Plus, I am really amazed at the amount of plastic waste we produce when buying tons of little bottles of water. 

We once lived in a town where our water was orange. I caved and bought a filtering system and we drank bottled water. But taking a bath was like bathing in orange Kool Aid so even I had to admit defeat.


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## Tobi (Mar 18, 2011)

I just see it like this...

Water is life, if our water is contaminated so are our minds and bodies... :usa2:


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## wolfsnaps88 (Jan 2, 2012)

I think our kidneys work hard enough as it is with what we put in our bodies, so when we drink water the kidneys can take a break. LOL. 

Give YOUR kidneys a break


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

every muncipality is different, meg...and you can actually look up your water source to see what's in it.

for me, the culprits are chlorine and fluoride.....

your water might be better......a pur or brita filter is good unless your water has fluoride, which those filters cannot remove, fluoride molecules being too small.


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## Candyd (Apr 11, 2013)

I've seriously thought about buying a Brita filter before, until I learnt bacteria colonies love to grow inside those filters, so I gave up.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

Candyd said:


> I've seriously thought about buying a Brita filter before, until I learnt bacteria colonies love to grow inside those filters, so I gave up.


so did we, until we checked our municipal water. 

and i agree about the filters. how judiciously we need to maintain them. after all of that, however, we would have. i so do not want to drink bottled water for several reasons.

i've read the score cards on bottled water. i've read the score cards on the water which supplies where we live.

it's not a great solution, but bottled water, believe it or not, won.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

Hmmm, I'm gonna have to look up our city's water later....


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

Okay...silly question...but is this something the city would have on record? Or would I need to bring a sample in? I'm seeing laboratory listings that say they have state approved kits but having trouble finding records (if they exist).


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## Tobi (Mar 18, 2011)

EPA regulations require hourly (usually 4-6 times per hour) testing on municipal water it's something they have on file and can send you.


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

meggels said:


> Okay...silly question...but is this something the city would have on record? Or would I need to bring a sample in? I'm seeing laboratory listings that say they have state approved kits but having trouble finding records (if they exist).


The city should have record of water quality, and I would think it would be available to the public. Talladega does a water quality check I think every six months or something like that, and they automatically send a copy to everyone with their water bills after the check. It tells the amount of EVERY mineral/toxin that was found or not found. I bet there are at least fifty or so different things that are tested for. Some stuff I have never even heard of.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

if i google my town + municipal water score card, i can bring up a complete analysis of the water piped into my home, from where it comes, what chemicals are in it, etc.

you should be able to start your google search by putting in water scorecard or water analysis for your zip code + state.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

Great, thanks guys  I'll have to do some googling when I'm back on my computer. Really curious to see what the results are (also kind of scared lol). I grew up on well water...not sure if that's any better or worse, but pretty much all I drink is water so I definitely am consuming a lot :-X


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

i also lived with well water (artesian) and really good water until i moved out here or when i lived in philly proper......

this water is as bad as philly's if not worse....and i simply won't drink it.

but, meg, you can smell the chlorine in our water.....and it tastes like doo doo ka ka...ya know?


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## wolfsnaps88 (Jan 2, 2012)

meggels said:


> Great, thanks guys  I'll have to do some googling when I'm back on my computer. Really curious to see what the results are (also kind of scared lol). I grew up on well water...not sure if that's any better or worse, but* pretty much all I drink is water* so I definitely am consuming a lot :-X



And margaritas....


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

wolfsnaps88 said:


> And margaritas....


Only one!!!! I don't particularly care for margaritas


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