# Just started RAW; gurgling and spitting up



## Allykat289 (Sep 28, 2016)

Good evening!

I just started 2 of my dogs on a raw diet. Today is the 3rd day, I am starting them off by just feeding them chicken wings (skin removed) for the first week then switching to chicken backs and gradually adding a small amount of veggie mush. My youngest is doing wonderful with it. My oldest, however, is having some issues. I am feeding them slightly less than 2% of their ideal body weight. My oldest, Ginger, has spit up small pieces of bone and this evening her stomach was making loud gurgling.

I read other threads and believe that I need to start her off with less as her stomach is not accustomed to the bone and needs to build tolerance, and that the gurgling is just her digestive tract doing it's job. 

So, my plan is to feed her less for a few days to see if that makes a difference. If not then I will get a blend that has the bone already ground up. Sound good?

Thank you everyone!


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

Try drumsticks instead of wings. They are bigger, and you want the dogs to chew. Unless you are having really runny poops, backs aren't needed. After drumsticks I would go with quarters. In fact, quarters would probably do fine for you anyway. 

It will take your dogs body a little time to adjust to digesting bone, so you may see a few pieces in some vomit now and then.

Also, veggies aren't needed. Dogs don't digest them very well, not to mention the sugar as well. All a dog needs is raw meat/bone/organs.


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## Allykat289 (Sep 28, 2016)

Ok I've been doing just chicken wings to start but think it is too much bone for her so I got some boneless chicken breast to give to her tonight. 
How often do you give organ meats? I'm going to do chicken for a few weeks then add a different protein, is turkey the best next one to add or can I start beef at that point? I got chicken backs because I read it has some organ meat attached so I don't have to feed straight organ as often.


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

Assuming all goes well, don't stay on chicken, or any protein for more than about a week and a half, two at the most. You can add some boneless breast if you want, or try quarters. Good amount of meat and bone. Don't do backs because of the organs attached. They really are just a part of organs, not considered a full serving. Considering the bone content, unless you have digestive issues going on, the bone will greatly out weigh what organ is there. When it comes to organs, beef liver is best, and that should be started in TINY amounts. You can geed it daily in small amounts or weekly in larger amounts. Whichever works for you, but I would wait and get through a few proteins first. 

Yes, turkey would be your next protein, then move on to pork, beef and other red meats.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

How are her poops? are they sandy or diarrhea?

chicken breast is the least nutritious and most expensive part of a chicken. I would go with legs or quarters like naturalfooddogs says. When I feed boneless chicken it's hearts - very cheap, very nutritious. 

Chicken wings are pretty much all bone. I wouldn't feed a diet of chicken wings unless it had a good bit of boneless meat along with it.


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## Allykat289 (Sep 28, 2016)

Thank you both for all the advice! I'll save the chicken breast for dinner for the humans.
Is chicken thigh ok? I ask because Ginger is 30 lbs and the leg quarters I've found are huge. 
Her poop is looking like everyone says it should look on the raw diet but I did notice her straining a little earlier...another reason I think it's too much bone.


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

Thighs are fine.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

If you get quarters, the thighs should be attached to half a back. I feed those often, with the leg cut off. For my 28 pound dog that's a lot of bone so the next day she doesn't get much.


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## Allykat289 (Sep 28, 2016)

Ok thank you so much that really helped a lot!


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## Herzo (Feb 5, 2011)

You also want to watch the quarters as they can have some organs on them as well. I wasn't finding quarters when I first started so I would always start with legs then go to thighs as they don't have near as much bone. Now I seem to find quarters everywhere so I buy them cut the legs off and put the legs together and the thigh parts together in ziploc bags and freeze. I agree the things are huge most of the time. Good luck.


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## Galathiel (Aug 30, 2016)

Yup I've been finding leg quarters that weigh as much as a pound a piece. Not that bad for MY dog since he eats 2 lbs of meat a day, but good grief! Those were some big ole chickens!


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## Allykat289 (Sep 28, 2016)

So I ordered turkey drumsticks before seeing the comment about them being really dense and after getting them and seeing just how huge they are I don't feel to comfortable giving the bone to my dogs. However I do not want to waste it. So I was thinking about a turkey bone broth? The meat I ordered I'm not sure is technically "human grade" so I'm not sure I would want to ingest any of the bone broth. 

What I'm thinking is making it for the dogs and adding a little to their water periodically and keeping it for if they get upset tummies. Of course no salt is added. 

Anyone have thoughts on this?


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## Galathiel (Aug 30, 2016)

I would. I made some bone broth and then froze it in individual servings. Since I give a raw grind mixed with Honest Kitchen base mix for half his daily food, I just add it to the mix meal.


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

Allykat289 said:


> So I ordered turkey drumsticks before seeing the comment about them being really dense and after getting them and seeing just how huge they are I don't feel to comfortable giving the bone to my dogs. However I do not want to waste it. So I was thinking about a turkey bone broth? The meat I ordered I'm not sure is technically "human grade" so I'm not sure I would want to ingest any of the bone broth.
> 
> What I'm thinking is making it for the dogs and adding a little to their water periodically and keeping it for if they get upset tummies. Of course no salt is added.
> 
> Anyone have thoughts on this?


Broth isn't going to take the place of bone. Turkey necks would be good in place of drumsticks. They aren't like other dense turkey bones. They are much softer and easy to chew. In fact, they are the only turkey bones I give because of that.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

There is another option. Get a big sledgehammer. Cut off most of the meat, and pound the legs into smithereens.


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## Spy Car (Apr 16, 2015)

Chicken wings and backs have way too much bone unless supplemented with A LOT of boneless meat. 

Drumsticks and thighs are also way over PMR ratios for bone. The last thing you need to add is more bone. What you need is more meat.

Too much bone will cause a dog to vomit and feeding excessive amounts of calcium is not what you to give a developing pup.

Bill


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## Galathiel (Aug 30, 2016)

I feed bone broth as an add-in, not instead of bone. I assumed that she was doing the same hehe.


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## Allykat289 (Sep 28, 2016)

Galathiel you are correct, I was planning on using it as an addition. I know that I will need to make sure I don't use it too much if feeding regular bones. I am giving my youngest pup small amounts of ACV daily to see if it helps with his allergies and figured I can "hide" it with some broth.

xellil- sledge hammer, eh?


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

Allykat289 said:


> Galathiel you are correct, I was planning on using it as an addition. I know that I will need to make sure I don't use it too much if feeding regular bones. I am giving my youngest pup small amounts of ACV daily to see if it helps with his allergies and figured I can "hide" it with some broth.
> 
> xellil- sledge hammer, eh?


It can be a hammer or kitchen mallet. Just smash the bone until like a bean bag sort of, to help learn and encourage chewing. It is also good for denser bones like turkey just to make them easier to chew.


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