# Why do owners of certain breeds like to convey an image of aggressiveness?



## Sprocket

As a pitbull owner trying to change the publics view of pitbulls, I would never put my dog in a spiked hardware, or aggressive looking products. 

Why do owners do this to their dogs? Especially the breeds that have a bad reputation already?

I'm not speaking of specifically pitbulls, I just have this dog to use as an example. I have seen spiked collars on many breeds that the general public is not properly educated on.

I KNOW the history of spiked collars, but they don't serve that purpose now. 

They are simply for looks and frankly I think it is setting the dogs back.



This has always bothered me. Pitbull (or other dogs) owners want the best for their dogs but they blatantly make them look scary. For what? It doesn't do any good.


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## xchairity_casex

i thing they are elegant and look nice personally dont think i would take cesar out in public in one simply becuase i think its too flashy for everyday use i would also not really dress him up to take out in pulic either though.

i do like to take photos and would like a nice spiked collar to use on him for photos ive also taken photos of him in a choke chain.
hell i have pictures of my cats and myself wearing spikes i jsut like them its the style nowdays i suppose "grundgy"

i will talk up cesar protectiveness and strength to creepy guys who stop us in the street and try to "hint" around about how Cesar could be unpredictable but thats for my own saftey purposes i want those types to be a little bit afraid of him so they think twoce aout trying to rob me or rape me or kill me. makes me feel safer.

but mainly i think it has alot to do with a persons reflection in the dog if there dog looks bad-ass then so do they and "ohhh look how powerful that guy is he owns and controls a PIT BULL!!! better not mess with him!"


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## frogdog

Emily, I agree with you...seems one would want to take the opposite approach and put them in a more happy, congenial collar. I'm sure there are some people going for that exact look that spike collars interpret. I've had two rotties and would have never put them in spikes...they were intimidating enough as it was. They wore custom made leather collars. Also, spikes are not my thing any how.


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## 7766

My ex is a Harley mechanic and when we first got Stoli he came home with a HD studded collar, then a pink one for Bella when we got her. I hated them, only because trying to pet or cuddle with them was a chore. Darn things would hurt.

Maybe because I don't see Pitt's as bad dogs it doesn't bother me. I do understand what you are saying and if I owned one and had to always fight the stereotype, I might think differently.


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## Sprocket

xchairity_casex;190332[B said:


> ]i thing they are elegant and look nice[/B] personally dont think i would take cesar out in public in one simply becuase i think its too flashy for everyday use i would also not really dress him up to take out in pulic either though.
> 
> i do like to take photos and would like a nice spiked collar to use on him for photos ive also taken photos of him in a choke chain.
> hell i have pictures of my cats and myself wearing spikes i jsut like them its the style nowdays i suppose "grundgy"
> 
> i will talk up cesar protectiveness and strength to creepy guys who stop us in the street and try to "hint" around about how Cesar could be unpredictable but thats for my own saftey purposes i want those types to be a little bit afraid of him so they think twoce aout trying to rob me or rape me or kill me. makes me feel safer.
> 
> but mainly i think it has alot to do with a persons reflection in the dog if there dog looks bad-ass then so do they and "ohhh look how powerful that guy is he owns and controls a PIT BULL!!! better not mess with him!"


FWIW, I don't think they look "elegant and nice", I think they look gaudy and painful and they make the dog look mean, which as a pitbull owner, is ENTIRELY against my efforts.



frogdog said:


> Emily, I agree with you...*seems one would want to take the opposite approach and put them in a more happy, congenial collar*. I'm sure there are some people going for that exact look that spike collars interpret. I've had two rotties and would have never put them in spikes...they were intimidating enough as it was. They wore custom made leather collars. Also, spikes are not my thing any how.


One would think? 

Spikes are definitely not my thing...at all.

It just doesn't make any sense to me to make them look mean. I want my dog to look like every other dog, I know he is not, but I don't want people to perceive him as aggressive, which is what spikes look like IMO.


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## kady05

I actually don't mind *small* spiked or studded collars on any type of dog. Now, the big, exaggerated looking ones, bleh, they're ugly.


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## Sprocket

nlboz said:


> My ex is a Harley mechanic and when we first got Stoli he came home with a HD studded collar, then a pink one for Bella when we got her. I hated them, only because trying to pet or cuddle with them was a chore. Darn things would hurt.
> 
> Maybe because I don't see Pitt's as bad dogs it doesn't bother me. I do understand what you are saying and if I owned one and had to always fight the stereotype, I might think differently.


I don't see pitbulls as bad dogs either. The majority of the public, however, DOES view them as bad dogs. 

And its not just pitbulls...GSD, Rotts, Beaucerons, Mals, Bulldogs, Any bull breed, Great Danes...


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## Sprocket

kady05 said:


> I actually don't mind *small* spiked or studded collars on any type of dog. Now, the big, exaggerated looking ones, bleh, they're ugly.


The only time I would ever find spikes laughable is when they are on chihuahuas or other small dogs. 

Other than that, I just don't find it pleasant or something I would want to put on my dog.


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## Caty M

Not having a "terrifying" dog breed, I've never been in that situation, but I agree. Having walked a roommate's pit mix, people are scared enough with her pink collar, let alone one with spikes that furthers the image. Though- having a well behaved example of the breed is going to go the furthest in changing people's opinions. Unfortunately a proportionally large number of stupid people own these breeds that have no idea how to raise a dog.

That being said I do have a little one for Tess- LOL. She's far from menacing with it on, though.


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## 7766

Sprocket said:


> I don't see pitbulls as bad dogs either. The majority of the public, however, DOES view them as bad dogs.
> 
> And its not just pitbulls...GSD, Rotts, Beaucerons, Mals, Bulldogs, Any bull breed, Great Danes...


I know you don't. I didn't mean to insinuate you did.


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## Sprocket

Caty M said:


> Not having a "terrifying" dog breed, I've never been in that situation, but I agree. Having walked a roommate's pit mix, people are scared enough with her pink collar, let alone one with spikes that furthers the image. Though- having a well behaved example of the breed is going to go the furthest in changing people's opinions. Unfortunately a proportionally large number of stupid people own these breeds that have no idea how to raise a dog.
> 
> That being said I do have a little one for Tess- LOL. She's far from menacing with it on, though.


See now, Tess having one is funny, because shes an IG. Sprocket had a nice leather one with 2 small spikes when he was younger but it was much to heavy for him and I didn't like it any way so I tossed it. 

I do have a very well behaved dog of a breed that is probably the most judged. I work hard every day to prepare him for when we are out, I want him to be the best he can be and help people see the good in pitbulls. So far it is working, but I am positive that if I were to place him in a spiked collar, people would give me worse dirty looks and probably wouldn't even ask me about him. His silly purple and green tyedye collar is the collar that got him the most attention. So many people just want to know about him because he does not look intimidating and I largely attribute it to him having a beautiful attitude, and not wearing aggressive looking hardware. 

As much as I hate it, people DO judge these breeds of dogs by their covers. I like to make his cover as inviting as possible.


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## Makovach

I agree with you 100% Sprocket. I hate the spike collars. I do like some of the ones with studs, not spikes. One I want to get for Tucker has skull and crossbones studs and little flat circles, but to me I just like it, and I don't think it would make him look scary, and I'll probably never get it because its $110. 

I did have one spike collar. The spikes were sharp and people were afraid of Annie when she wore it. But she only wore it in the house, and the purpose of the collar was because my brothers doberman Jade would bite at her neck and leave puncture wounds (all in play, not aggression). She wouldn't bite Annie's neck with the collar on. And Annie only wore it while they were loose together. That collar got pitched once my brother got rid of his dog. 

I'm against it. I hate the look. I hate the image it gives the dogs. I want to rescue a pit some day. And I want to show everyone how loving the breed is.


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## Maxy24

Well you must remember some people do get these breeds because they LIKE the "bad boy" image. Those are the people who help give them their bad name. As for regular, responsible folks, I don't know. Maybe they just see it as "cool" or whatever. But usually when I see people walking pits with spiked collars (which I don't see very often) the owner has his pants hanging around his knees and thinks he's a gangster. But I suppose that's stereotyping too.


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## catahoulamom

This is something I have been discussing with our local group fighting miami-dade county's breed specific legislation. We did a demostration on the side of a busy street with signs, pamphlets, the whole shebang... And some people brought their pits. In spike collars. BIG spike collars. Or chain collars with chain leashes. I was so pissed off I almost wanted to leave. We're trying to get the people of Miami dade county to vote to overturn the BSL, people that have been taught for 23 years that pit bulls are dangerous dogs, and youre bringing your dog in aggressive, dangerous looking collars? Ugh, it pisses me off. Spike collars in particular don't really bother me (I walk a Maltese that wears a pink one lol) but when people walk their pit bull type dogs in public with the large spike collars it directly contriubutes to the publics negative image of the breed,IMO.


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## GoingPostal

Personally I don't feel it hardly matters, either people view them well or they won't. There's a horrid piece here Pit bulls: Own them at our own risk - baltimoresun.com, where the pit bull is wearing a costume and apparently still menacing. The other pit bulls are described as "tethered or chained" to their owners. I'm assuming they were leashed like every other dog there but that doesn't sound scary enough. Yesterday my menacing pit bull mix was getting petted by 3 strange adults, 2 strange kids, ignoring the black lab that was snarling at us and said lab's owner was still going on about how crazy I was for owning her, how aggressive they are, I must be on drugs. Then telling me how his dog chases off any other dogs and doesn't like strangers on her territory, I've never seen the dog on a leash either. If it's acceptable and cute for a chihuahua or mop dog than it should be for any dog, everybody's got their own style and they shouldn't have to please everyone else, if they cared they probably wouldn't have gotten such a hated breed to begin with. I don't use them, think they look dumb and would be mighty painful running into your leg, not to mention impossible to grab if needed.


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## Sprocket

GoingPostal said:


> Personally I don't feel it hardly matters, either people view them well or they won't. There's a horrid piece here Pit bulls: Own them at our own risk - baltimoresun.com, where the pit bull is wearing a costume and apparently still menacing. The other pit bulls are described as "tethered or chained" to their owners. I'm assuming they were leashed like every other dog there but that doesn't sound scary enough. Yesterday my menacing pit bull mix was getting petted by 3 strange adults, 2 strange kids, ignoring the black lab that was snarling at us and said lab's owner was still going on about how crazy I was for owning her, how aggressive they are, I must be on drugs. Then telling me how his dog chases off any other dogs and doesn't like strangers on her territory, I've never seen the dog on a leash either. * If it's acceptable and cute for a chihuahua or mop dog than it should be for any dog*


While that sounds nice and all, for some breeds, considering the way they are judged so harshly, it is just not possible for them to be readily accepted while wearing aggressive hardware around their necks. 

,


GoingPostal said:


> everybody's got their own style and *they shouldn't have to please everyone else, if they cared they probably wouldn't have gotten such a hated breed to begin with*.


Assuming this is directed at me...

That sentence doesn't make any sense.

I don't aim to PLEASE people, my work is to improve the IMAGE of the pitbull breed, a breed in which I love and adore. I love them so much that I do everything possible to help them win over the public. 

It pains me to see people adorn their sweet dogs with spikes just to "look cool". It completely goes against my efforts and really bothers me because I hate seeing a breed that is actually really loving, looking like they want to jump the next kid they see. I am sure that is the way the public views pitbulls with spikes.



GoingPostal said:


> I don't use them, think they look dumb and would be mighty painful running into your leg, not to mention impossible to grab if needed.


I agree with this. Some of them can get rather long and sharp! OUCH!


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## xellil

Every time I see a spiked collar I think of the couple who came into the extremely remote store I worked at out in West Texas way back in 1981 - she had on a spiked collar and leash, and the man had the other end of the leash. They shopped around and bought beer and chips all the while with him leading her around like a dog.

Personally, i think the collars are much more of a reflection of the owners than the dogs. The dogs don't dress themselves.


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## Caty M

GoingPostal said:


> Personally I don't feel it hardly matters, either people view them well or they won't. There's a horrid piece here Pit bulls: Own them at our own risk - baltimoresun.com, where the pit bull is wearing a costume and apparently still menacing. The other pit bulls are described as "tethered or chained" to their owners. I'm assuming they were leashed like every other dog there but that doesn't sound scary enough. Yesterday my menacing pit bull mix was getting petted by 3 strange adults, 2 strange kids, ignoring the black lab that was snarling at us and said lab's owner was still going on about how crazy I was for owning her, how aggressive they are, I must be on drugs. Then telling me how his dog chases off any other dogs and doesn't like strangers on her territory, I've never seen the dog on a leash either. If it's acceptable and cute for a chihuahua or mop dog than it should be for any dog, everybody's got their own style and they shouldn't have to please everyone else, if they cared they probably wouldn't have gotten such a hated breed to begin with. I don't use them, think they look dumb and would be mighty painful running into your leg, not to mention impossible to grab if needed.


That article is awful. What a pitiful excuse for a journalist. What happened to "get the facts"?



> When I see pit bulls, even those in charming costume, I stay clear. They have a reputation for vicious mauling, and I'd rather avoid one.





> Until they are banned outright, pit bulls should not be allowed in public, and their ownership should bear heavy, legal responsibility. I was pleased to read last week's ruling by the Maryland Court of Appeals declaring them inherently dangerous.


I don't think he should be allowed out in public, much less publishing articles, until he learns the FACTS about the dogs. I'm surprised he didn't write about their jaws locking and the fact that pit bulls WILL SNAP.


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## Sprocket

xellil said:


> Every time I see a spiked collar I think of the couple who came into the extremely remote store I worked at out in West Texas way back in 1981 - she had on a spiked collar and leash, and the man had the other end of the leash. They shopped around and bought beer and chips all the while with him leading her around like a dog.
> 
> Personally,* i think the collars are much more of a reflection of the owners than the dogs. The dogs don't dress themselves.*



That is very true, unfortunately, not every thinks that way and the dog always suffers because of it.

I take owning a pitbull seriously. I would never create a reason for someone to not like him.


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## Sprocket

Caty M said:


> That article is awful. What a pitiful excuse for a journalist. What happened to "get the facts"?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think he should be allowed out in public, much less publishing articles, until he learns the FACTS about the dogs. I'm surprised he didn't write about their jaws locking and the fact that pit bulls WILL SNAP.



Speaking of locking jaw on pitbulls.

My friend Patrick and I had to convince a mutual friend this weekend that pitbulls did infact, NOT have locking jaws.


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## AveryandAudrey

I like pits and I really wish they didnt have that sad reputation. Ive learned by being at the humane society volunteering that they are actually super cheerful friendly dogs naturally. Not that I ever thought they were mean, but I never realized they were so happy of a breed. And as for spikes, I like spikes. I wore spiked bracelets and belts for years and had blue/green/red/purple pink/ hair haha so even tho I dont wear that now, I still like spikes. My pei had a pink spike collar for a while till she outgrew it. But I totally see where you are coming from. Ive seen peoplke put the chains and the spikes and walk like their dog is going to eat you. Thats not the image to portray for a breed already discriminated against.


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## lovemydogsalways

Sprocket- I would really like to meet your boy. I had a bad run in with a pit at work more than once because my boss was stupid and allowed the dog to keep boarding. The other couple pitties we have had board were lovely, but I felt apprehension and I hate that my conscious does that to me.


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## Sprocket

AveryandAudrey said:


> I like pits and I really wish they didnt have that sad reputation. Ive learned by being at the humane society volunteering that they are actually super cheerful friendly dogs naturally. Not that I ever thought they were mean, but I never realized they were so happy of a breed. And as for spikes, I like spikes. I wore spiked bracelets and belts for years and had blue/green/red/purple pink/ hair haha so even tho I dont wear that now, I still like spikes. My pei had a pink spike collar for a while till she outgrew it. But I totally see where you are coming from.* Ive seen peoplke put the chains and the spikes and walk like their dog is going to eat you. Thats not the image to portray for a breed already discriminated against*.


Right? Then they let the dog pull so hard on the leash that the dog is gasping for breath and sounds like a dragon. 

No wonder people are shocked when they see Gunner heeling nicely, and walking quietly besides me. 



lovemydogsalways said:


> Sprocket- I would really like to meet your boy. I had a bad run in with a pit at work more than once because my boss was stupid and allowed the dog to keep boarding. The other couple pitties we have had board were lovely, but I felt apprehension and I hate that my conscious does that to me.


I don't blame you. My sister was attacked by a GSD when I was a kid and I still don't like those dogs very much. 

Gunner is just a bundle of love. He wants nothing more than to cuddle, kiss and be with you.


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## AveryandAudrey

I love to see well behaved pits because they show what the breed really can be like. Here labs are usually seen as bad too, they are never trained, always jumping fences and chasing bicycles. All breeds hae potential, they just need trained and cared for.


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## xchairity_casex

Sprocket said:


> Speaking of locking jaw on pitbulls.
> 
> My friend Patrick and I had to convince a mutual friend this weekend that pitbulls did infact, NOT have locking jaws.


that made me remeber a stupid comment i heard from someone on another forum i am on
a girl was talking about maybe fostering a pit mix she had owned dogs before in the past but never a bully breed and wanted to know if it was a good idea 9explained her lifestyle)

one young guy came on to say his freind had owned a pit bull and its jaws had locked onto his arm and they had to cut the dogs ehad off to remove it.
i said "no your freind proably told you that as an excuse for killing the dog"

but this guy was a little weird as another person posted a few photos of her cockatiel in another thread and he went on and on about how "viscious" they were he also claimed ferrets,and guinea pigs were "vicious"


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## catahoulamom

I should rephrase, I have no problem with normal spike collars, any owner of any breed has the right to "dress" their dog how they like. My frustration was towards the "activists" that brought their dogs in huge spike collars with chain leashes to an event that was meant to gain supporters for the bill we were trying to get passed, to throw out the breed specific legislation. They are already illegal here, taking them out in public like that was not a wise choice.


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## DeekenDog

I don't like spikes for any dog but I have a particular problem with them on "aggressive" breeds (to be clear I mean breeds that the general public views as aggressive). Its funny because instead of causing me to make snap judgements about a dog, the spiked collars/chain leashes etc. cause me to make snap judgements about the owner. Not something I'm proud of but I find myself doing it anyway. I used to volunteer with one of our local pit bull rescues and its really amazing to see first hand how much a collar does affect someone's perception of a dog. Put a dog in spikes and people really do steer clear, put a dog in a cute fabric collar and bandana and people's perception is totally different. Unfortunately for so many people who buy "aggressive" dog breeds they are buying the dog because they want the image that goes with it, not because they want the dog itself. So they put the dog in spikes and perpetuate the stereotype.


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## NewYorkDogue

There is a Pit Bull I see in the park occasionally who sports a very unique "necklace," hand-made by her owner. It's a soft collar, made of like a stretchy nylon cord, with lots of colorful "streamers" tied to it (made of some kind of soft stretchy corded material). So when she runs and plays, the corded streamers just bounce around and give her a very playful persona. 

The owner wanted to soften her dog's appearance, because of the Pit Bull's reputation (and also because her dog in particular is a tough, high-energy dog.) And it works! People comment on her "collar" all the time and are amused and enchanted... and that translates to the dog.

I agree-- sometimes you have to be proactive in working to overcome negative stereotypes...


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## Sprocket

DeekenDog said:


> I don't like spikes for any dog but I have a particular problem with them on "aggressive" breeds (to be clear I mean breeds that the general public views as aggressive). Its funny because instead of causing me to make snap judgements about a dog, the spiked collars/chain leashes etc. cause me to make snap judgements about the owner. Not something I'm proud of but I find myself doing it anyway. I used to volunteer with one of our local pit bull rescues and its really amazing to see first hand how much a collar does affect someone's perception of a dog. Put a dog in spikes and people really do steer clear, put a dog in a cute fabric collar and bandana and people's perception is totally different. Unfortunately for so many people who buy "aggressive" dog breeds they are buying the dog because they want the image that goes with it, not because they want the dog itself. So they put the dog in spikes and perpetuate the stereotype.





NewYorkDogue said:


> There is a Pit Bull I see in the park occasionally who sports a very unique "necklace," hand-made by her owner. It's a soft collar, made of like a stretchy nylon cord, with lots of colorful "streamers" tied to it (made of some kind of soft stretchy corded material). So when she runs and plays, the corded streamers just bounce around and give her a very playful persona.
> 
> The owner wanted to soften her dog's appearance, because of the Pit Bull's reputation (and also because her dog in particular is a tough, high-energy dog.) And it works! People comment on her "collar" all the time and are amused and enchanted... and that translates to the dog.
> 
> I agree-- sometimes you have to be proactive in working to overcome negative stereotypes...


Thank you both. For putting my thoughts into words.

NewYorkD, please thank that woman for me the next time you see her.


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## bridget246

.Most of the pits that I've seen were owned for their rep. The owners wanted their dog not to like people. Same with gsd. Some people in my family didnt understand why I wanted Bridget to be friendly with strangers, consider it to be a waste of a good protect dog.

If I wanted Bridget to attack I would get her training to do so. I feel it is my job to protect her. If no one is home then my dogs are the most important. I'd rather find everything in the house missing and the dogs in the bathroom than return to find my dogs hurt trying to protect the stuff that can be replaced. This happened to my dad. They stole everything and put his dog in the bathroom. We found out who did it and they had mean looking pits. It is bad owners giving the dogs the bad rep.


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## Sprocket

bridget246 said:


> .Most of the pits that I've seen were owned for their rep. The owners wanted their dog not to like people. Same with gsd. Some people in my family didnt understand why I wanted Bridget to be friendly with strangers, consider it to be a waste of a good protect dog.
> 
> If I wanted Bridget to attack I would get her training to do so. I feel it is my job to protect her. If no one is home then my dogs are the most important. I'd rather find everything in the house missing and the dogs in the bathroom than return to find my dogs hurt trying to protect the stuff that can be replaced. This happened to my dad. They stole everything and put his dog in the bathroom. We found out who did it and they had mean looking pits.* It is bad owners giving the dogs the bad rep*.


Yep but like I've said earlier, the DOG is the one who suffers.

FWIW - I don't need a mean pitbull. I have Mikey to protect us, house and vehicles


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## Sprocket

lovemydogsalways said:


> Sprocket- I would really like to meet your boy. I had a bad run in with a pit at work more than once because my boss was stupid and allowed the dog to keep boarding. The other couple pitties we have had board were lovely, but I felt apprehension and I hate that my conscious does that to me.


Here is Gunner.

Doesn't he look mean?

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=3820707605007&notif_t=like


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## lovemydogsalways

So terrifying!!! JK lol he looks like a mush.


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## Sprocket

lovemydogsalways said:


> So terrifying!!! JK lol he looks like a mush.


He is! 

That little chi quickly fell in love with him and followed him everywhere  

He cuddled with the pug and chi in the car.


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## sozzle

Sadly in New Zealand young males with pitbulls/staffies tend to put them in spike type collars and I think they want their dogs to be a reflection of their own image, maybe, I don't know. I always worry when I see young men with pitbulls/staffies but not females or older people. And I know that's being judgemental but I am not sure whether some young men know about the training involved in owning a dog especially a very strong one physically and mentally. 

I saw a young man with two staffy pups on weekend and he lifted them off the path for us to go past (6 greyhounds and owners) but lifted them up by their leads with no hands, in effect slightly strangling them for a couple of seconds and he was also quite aggressive with them. I am not sure what sort of life they will lead, they were very small about 3-4 months old.

In saying that we rescued a white and black cat many years ago, we think he was about 14, he had scabby ears, three legs (long story) and was very crotchetty and rough looking, and we bought him a little black collar with studs on which we still have. We thought it fitted his 'tough street cat' image. Bless him, he was a real softie and came to an unfortunate end in our swimming pool. I suppose a cat with three legs would just go round and round.


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## GoingPostal

Sprocket said:


> While that sounds nice and all, for some breeds, considering the way they are judged so harshly, it is just not possible for them to be readily accepted while wearing aggressive hardware around their necks.
> 
> , Assuming this is directed at me...
> 
> That sentence doesn't make any sense.
> 
> I don't aim to PLEASE people, my work is to improve the IMAGE of the pitbull breed, a breed in which I love and adore. I love them so much that I do everything possible to help them win over the public.
> 
> It pains me to see people adorn their sweet dogs with spikes just to "look cool". It completely goes against my efforts and really bothers me because I hate seeing a breed that is actually really loving, looking like they want to jump the next kid they see. I am sure that is the way the public views pitbulls with spikes.


But if I put leather collars on my dogs because I like the look, you put fabric collars on yours because you like the look, someone else loves spikes and puts them on their dogs, sorry but I can't see a problem, people who fear and hate the breed just see me as a thug and them as aggressive because that's all they are going to see. Did you read the article? Pit bull in a flippin batman costume was scary to that guy, it was probably adorable but he could care less, it's still a pit bull. My pleasing everyone comment wasn't about you, it's about anyone that owns the breed, why should I have to dress up my dogs to win over the public? If they are judging on looks and not on behavior I am not going to change their mind.


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## Dude and Bucks Mamma

catahoulamom said:


> This is something I have been discussing with our local group fighting miami-dade county's breed specific legislation. We did a demostration on the side of a busy street with signs, pamphlets, the whole shebang... And some people brought their pits. In spike collars. BIG spike collars. Or chain collars with *chain leashes*. I was so pissed off I almost wanted to leave. We're trying to get the people of Miami dade county to vote to overturn the BSL, people that have been taught for 23 years that pit bulls are dangerous dogs, and youre bringing your dog in aggressive, dangerous looking collars? Ugh, it pisses me off. Spike collars in particular don't really bother me (I walk a Maltese that wears a pink one lol) but when people walk their pit bull type dogs in public with the large spike collars it directly contriubutes to the publics negative image of the breed,IMO.


I have a chain leash. I will admit it looks more "bad ass" than a normal nylon leash but some of have chain leashes for a reason. I bought mine for a 15 week old puppy. Dude was GREAT at walking on a leash but he would chew on the leash while we walked. I would look down and my puppy would be gone. He was happily running off in another direction.

I also use it or carry it when I walk one of the dogs alone. It saved me from a GSD a couple of years ago. It came after us ( I still don't know if it was going after me, Dude, or both) and the GSD, if he could talk, would probably tell you that a chain leash to the face HURTS. I used it for years simply because I didn't have the money for another leash and it's a nice one. I stopped using it regularly when we moved up here because holding a chain leash in Washington weather isn't pleasant. I suppose I never thought about the image those might portray because I bought one to solve a problem rather than for looks. And I have a dog that has gotten me the "Is he part wolf?" question MANY times over the years with and without that leash. 

As far as spiked collars themselves go... Well, I don't mind them. My grandfather's first doberman had one and she looked stunning in it. Not intimidating, but regal. However, they weren't big spikes. You could grab her collar and they didn't hurt. My old neighbor had one for her recently deceased Chesapeake (the diabetic one I have mentioned here), Bailey and she just looked funny in it because she was a few pounds overweight and happy as can be. 

If I had a "menacing" dog breed, I would likely have a spiked collar simply for when I walk the dog alone. I am only 4'11 and, while I have never had anyone or anything attack me besides the GSD mentioned above, I do still worry because I am not an intimidating looking person at one inch taller than the handicap limit. 

I suppose that, because I don't view pits as a "bad breed" it never really even occurred to me to differentiate between the pits I know with spiked collars and the pits I know with other collars.


----------



## Dude and Bucks Mamma

And I thought I would add that that article is disgusting...


----------



## Sprocket

GoingPostal said:


> But if I put leather collars on my dogs because I like the look, you put fabric collars on yours because you like the look, someone else loves spikes and puts them on their dogs, sorry but I can't see a problem, people who fear and hate the breed just see me as a thug and them as aggressive because that's all they are going to see. Did you read the article? Pit bull in a flippin batman costume was scary to that guy, it was probably adorable but he could care less, it's still a pit bull. My pleasing everyone comment wasn't about you, it's about anyone that owns the breed, *why should I have to dress up my dogs to win over the public? If they are judging on looks and not on behavior I am not going to change their mind.*



If you love your breed you will not make them look menacing and aggressive. If you truly love them, you will want to show the world that they are wonderful and not the blood thirsty animals everyone thinks they are.

They are judged on looks FIRST, then after the person meets the dog and looks past the looks, that one person will change their thinking and judge the dog on the behavior.

THAT is my point, my mission as a pitbull advocate. I want to slowly change the thinking of every person I meet. I would NOT be able to do that if I dressed my dog in spikes because no one would give me a chance.

My point is that I care about this breed, always have, always will. I try to change the world every day, person by person, using one dog. So far, I have changed a lot of minds around and I would hope that it is spreading through them. I see the bigger picture but I know it starts at home. I would NEVER EVER do my breed an injustice by making them out to be something they aren't (i.e. mean, blood thirsty, aggressive). I just can't see why anyone who loves their pitbull would chose to damage them further.

People DO change their minds, it takes time, but I am willing to work with them one by one. IMO, it is worth everything.


----------



## meggels

I babysat a frenchie two years ago and the owners had this THICK red leather collar with little spikes on it. The collar was like 2-3 inches wide and just looked so stupid. 

While he was with me for the weekend, I took it off and let him wear a plain nylon collar I had laying around lol. I wanted to give his damn neck a break.


----------



## frogdog

I've seen a few people post cute little Frenchies with those collars...what are they thinking...it's usually one's with those so called "rare" colors especially the blues.

I'm sure that little fella was relieved even if it was short lived until the owners came back.


----------



## Sprocket

frogdog said:


> I've seen a few people post cute little Frenchies with those collars...what are they thinking...it's usually one's with those so called "rare" colors especially the blues.
> 
> I'm sure that little fella was relieved even if it was short lived until the owners came back.


There are "blue" frenchies?


----------



## Caty M

Sprocket said:


> There are "blue" frenchies?


Yeah.. I've never seen one either LOL. Just brindle, black and fawn I think..


----------



## meggels

Yes, there are blues, blue brindles, blue pieds...but they are not colors that are allowed under the standard. A lot of people breed them just for the rare color, and then charge a sh*t ton of money for the pups. Very few reputable breeders will have blue lines in their programs, and most of the blues I've seen have been pretty unattractive lol


----------



## Sprocket

http://www.shelesbluefrenchbulldogs.com/images/levi-and-billy-2-st-1.gif

Little mini staffys LOL


----------



## meggels

Blue










Blue Pied










Chocolate










Black and tan











Blech, don't like any of the colors.


----------



## Caty M

I think the blue and black and tan are quite cute.. I don't like the pied at all.. Though calling a miscoloured dog rare and charging a lot of money for it is pretty stupid.


----------



## Sprocket

I think they are all cute but the colors are strange. I do like the black and tan.


----------



## meggels

I'd be okay with a blak and tan if it was better conformationally, but all the ones I've seen have been kinda meh, and almost look like a chihuahua had a rendez-vous with a frenchie lol.


The blues do nothing for me  Esp cause their light eyes freak me out and don't appeal to me, part of the reason I love Murph is his dark sweet eyes lol. Expression is one of my favorite things about the breed, and I think the blue's light eye's alter that.


----------



## meggels

Curious Caty, you didn't like the blue pied at all...

do you like the brindle pieds?


----------



## Sprocket

Yeah Gunners eyes are pretty freaky. I like them but sometimes I don't like them. Lol


----------



## Caty M

meggels said:


> I'd be okay with a blak and tan if it was better conformationally, but all the ones I've seen have been kinda meh, and almost look like a chihuahua had a rendez-vous with a frenchie lol.
> 
> 
> The blues do nothing for me  Esp cause their light eyes freak me out and don't appeal to me, part of the reason I love Murph is his dark sweet eyes lol. Expression is one of my favorite things about the breed, and I think the blue's light eye's alter that.


Do they never have dark eyes? In the IG blues can have light or dark eyes, but I think the dark are preferred. 



















And I bet there was a rendezvous somewhere in the line.. unless it's a natural colour, lol.


----------



## Caty M

meggels said:


> Curious Caty, you didn't like the blue pied at all...
> 
> do you like the brindle pieds?


Yeah, that's cute. I do prefer darker coloured dogs personally.


----------



## meggels

It's pretty rare for the blue's to have dark eyes. I can't say I've ever seen one. 

Emily, see, I love Gunner's eyes! But I'm okay with it on lots of breeds. Like Gunner obviously, Weim's, huskies with gorgeous blue eyes....

But because it's not normal or expected in a frenchie, and one of my favorite things is their dark sweet eyes and their expression, i think the light eyes just throw me off too much. It alters their face too much for me. If that makes sense lol. 

Just like when I see a boxer with like those amber or gold colored eyes, it kinda makes me go "ick" because it changes the boxers natural expression for me too much (boxers are what I grew up with).


----------



## lovemydogsalways

Dude and Bucks Mamma said:


> I have a chain leash. I will admit it looks more "bad ass" than a normal nylon leash but some of have chain leashes for a reason. I bought mine for a 15 week old puppy. Dude was GREAT at walking on a leash but he *would chew on the leash while we walked.* I would look down and my puppy would be gone. He was happily running off in another direction.
> 
> I also use it or carry it when I walk one of the dogs alone. It saved me from a GSD a couple of years ago. It came after us ( I still don't know if it was going after me, Dude, or both) and the GSD, if he could talk, would probably tell you that a chain leash to the face HURTS. I used it for years simply because I didn't have the money for another leash and it's a nice one. I stopped using it regularly when we moved up here because holding a chain leash in Washington weather isn't pleasant. I suppose I never thought about the image those might portray because I bought one to solve a problem rather than for looks. And I have a dog that has gotten me the "Is he part wolf?" question MANY times over the years with and without that leash.
> 
> As far as spiked collars themselves go... Well, I don't mind them. My grandfather's first doberman had one and she looked stunning in it. Not intimidating, but regal. However, they weren't big spikes. You could grab her collar and they didn't hurt. My old neighbor had one for her recently deceased Chesapeake (the diabetic one I have mentioned here), Bailey and she just looked funny in it because she was a few pounds overweight and happy as can be.
> 
> If I had a "menacing" dog breed, I would likely have a spiked collar simply for when I walk the dog alone. I am only 4'11 and, while I have never had anyone or anything attack me besides the GSD mentioned above, I do still worry because I am not an intimidating looking person at one inch taller than the handicap limit.
> 
> I suppose that, because I don't view pits as a "bad breed" it never really even occurred to me to differentiate between the pits I know with spiked collars and the pits I know with other collars.


Emma would do this too, luckily she never got through the leashes. I didn't go buy a chain one because I had plenty of old nylon ones around, but if not that would have been the next step. Little naughty puppies LOL


----------



## frogdog

No, it's not a natural color and usually those dogs tend to have more health problems...also, the breeder majority of the time is breeding only for profit and claiming "rare" with inflated prices.


----------



## meggels

Caty M said:


> Yeah, that's cute. I do prefer darker coloured dogs personally.


Me too lol. I want a brindle pied next. I yearn for one *cries* And it seems like all my friends that breed have had a surplus of brindle pied puppies in the past six months and I'm like WTF WHY ARE YOU TORTURING ME.

It all started when my friend offered me this little girl a few months ago, to show and then it would go back to her to be bred when she was old enough and passed her health tests. If not, she would just be my new frenchie child forever. Do you know how hard it is to turn this down?











Ever since that, I lust for a a brindle pied baby so bad lol


----------



## frogdog

I want a brindle pied too!!!


----------



## Caty M

Actually I love fawns I think out of all of them the most. Or brindle. Do fawns ever come with a black mask? I love black masked dogs. :smile:


----------



## xellil

Rebel has golden eyes. I am quite fascinated by them as I don't remember another dog that didn't have black eyes.

although he CAN be kind of creepy looking at times. If I didnt' know him, I'd be scared of him because a stare looks alot more intense to me with lighter colored eyes, and he stares at me alot.


----------



## meggels

Caty M said:


> Actually I love fawns I think out of all of them the most. Or brindle. Do fawns ever come with a black mask? I love black masked dogs. :smile:


yes they do lol

This is Hana, from Hungary, who I lived with in PA.












That Iggy you posted above with the light eyes, is adorable. Funny how I seem to like it on every other breed but my own lol


----------



## frogdog

Caty M said:


> Actually I love fawns I think out of all of them the most. Or brindle. Do fawns ever come with a black mask? I love black masked dogs. :smile:


Yes, they do...I'm sure Meg could post a pic...lol


----------



## frogdog

LOL...knew it and seems you were posting at the same time


----------



## Caty M

I like light eyed iggies too. Tess is a black factored fawn and they never do- I love chocolate eyes too.









Who am I kidding.. I like all IGs and frenchies. LOL


----------



## meggels

frogdog said:


> Yes, they do...I'm sure Meg could post a pic...lol


\hey, whats that supposed to mean


----------



## catahoulamom

Dude and Bucks Mamma said:


> I have a chain leash. I will admit it looks more "bad ass" than a normal nylon leash but some of have chain leashes for a reason. I bought mine for a 15 week old puppy. Dude was GREAT at walking on a leash but he would chew on the leash while we walked. I would look down and my puppy would be gone. He was happily running off in another direction.
> 
> I also use it or carry it when I walk one of the dogs alone. It saved me from a GSD a couple of years ago. It came after us ( I still don't know if it was going after me, Dude, or both) and the GSD, if he could talk, would probably tell you that a chain leash to the face HURTS. I used it for years simply because I didn't have the money for another leash and it's a nice one. I stopped using it regularly when we moved up here because holding a chain leash in Washington weather isn't pleasant. I suppose I never thought about the image those might portray because I bought one to solve a problem rather than for looks. And I have a dog that has gotten me the "Is he part wolf?" question MANY times over the years with and without that leash.
> 
> As far as spiked collars themselves go... Well, I don't mind them. My grandfather's first doberman had one and she looked stunning in it. Not intimidating, but regal. However, they weren't big spikes. You could grab her collar and they didn't hurt. My old neighbor had one for her recently deceased Chesapeake (the diabetic one I have mentioned here), Bailey and she just looked funny in it because she was a few pounds overweight and happy as can be.
> 
> If I had a "menacing" dog breed, I would likely have a spiked collar simply for when I walk the dog alone. I am only 4'11 and, while I have never had anyone or anything attack me besides the GSD mentioned above, I do still worry because I am not an intimidating looking person at one inch taller than the handicap limit.
> 
> I suppose that, because I don't view pits as a "bad breed" it never really even occurred to me to differentiate between the pits I know with spiked collars and the pits I know with other collars.


Oh yes, I've seen the regular chain leashes with a nylon handle that a lot of people use for the same reason as you - because their dogs chew through the leash. I totally understand the purpose for those and don't find them menacing at all. I was talking more about something like this, but with the chain being used as a collar as well. It's pretty popular down here, apparently.


----------



## frogdog

You've always got pics handy...you fast like that :wink:. I would have to go lurking for someone elses Frenchie pics on line.


----------



## Caty M

catahoulamom said:


> Oh yes, I've seen the regular chain leashes with a nylon handle that a lot of people use for the same reason as you - because their dogs chew through the leash. I totally understand the purpose for those and don't find them menacing at all. I was talking more about something like this, but with the chain being used as a collar as well. It's pretty popular down here, apparently.


Um, that looks heavy and ridiculous. Like "My dog is SO STONG AND MEAN it needs a 50lb chain to hold him".


----------



## xellil

Caty M said:


> Um, that looks heavy and ridiculous. Like "My dog is SO STONG AND MEAN it needs a 50lb chain to hold him".


I saw a guy walking a pit bull once in indianapolis and he had a brick hanging off the dog's collar.


----------



## catahoulamom

xellil said:


> I saw a guy walking a pit bull once in indianapolis and he had a brick hanging off the dog's collar.


Ugh - they do that because they think it'll make their dogs neck/head fatter. I had someone come into the HIGH END BOUTIQUE I worked in with his precious chocolate pitty pup and ask me "Do you guys sell thick chains?" "No sir, why do you need a chain?" "To put around my dogs neck." "Why don't you just use a collar?" "Cuz the last pit I had I used to keep a real thick chain around his neck and it made him nice and thick and strong."

The 6 month old puppy already had a chain around his neck being used as a collar. I'm sorry if I'm a little tainted, people in Miami just SUCK.


----------



## Sprocket

catahoulamom said:


> Oh yes, I've seen the regular chain leashes with a nylon handle that a lot of people use for the same reason as you - because their dogs chew through the leash. I totally understand the purpose for those and don't find them menacing at all. I was talking more about something like this, but with the chain being used as a collar as well. It's pretty popular down here, apparently.


WHAT THE EF?! We had chain leashes for our dogs as kids. I just hated how they hurt my hands.

That chain is just rediculous. Ignorant people really kill me.



xellil said:


> I saw a guy walking a pit bull once in indianapolis and he had a brick hanging off the dog's collar.


SERIOUSLY!? Flarking idiots. I would be tempted to hit him in the head with that brick.


----------



## lovemydogsalways

catahoulamom said:


> Oh yes, I've seen the regular chain leashes with a nylon handle that a lot of people use for the same reason as you - because their dogs chew through the leash. I totally understand the purpose for those and don't find them menacing at all. I was talking more about something like this, but with the chain being used as a collar as well. It's pretty popular down here, apparently.


Two boys came to the fairgrounds during 4-H one summer with two pits and chains similar to that on their necks.


----------



## xellil

Jeez. Do they think they are towing a truck? no, wait, I take that back. I could tow a truck with a smaller chain.


----------



## catahoulamom

lovemydogsalways said:


> Two boys came to the fairgrounds during 4-H one summer with two pits and chains similar to that on their necks.


There is no way it is comfortable or healthy for the dog. Again, I'll say I have no problem with spike collars or chain leashes - but gigantic industrial sized chain leashes like that and freakin ridiculous. No dog needs a leash that strong, and the chain should never be around their neck. Unfortunately I've seen it several times down here, no wonder pits are illegal. It makes them look like dangerous animals that need to be restrained, IMO. 

Rambo, my pit, used to have a spike collar. My boyfriend got it for him right after we rescued him and I figured why the heck not, he's a guy, he can put a spike collar on his dog and feel cool and tough walking him around. He got over it quickly and now the dogs just wear their bamboo martingales or Paco collars. We don't walk Rambo around our neighborhood because of the BSL (I drive them a couple miles away to walk them every night - I know it's a pain in the ass but I don't want to take the chance of my neighbors complaining about my dog) but when I take him out in public I try to make him look as sweet as possible. It's true, you really shouldn't care what other people think (and for the most part, I don't), but because of the ridiculous prejudice against the breed here, I just try to slip by without bringing attention to myself or Rambo. So he doesn't wear his silly spike collar anymore.


----------



## magicre

i agree, but i have to say they do look really cool...i don't see them as aggressive any more than i see a human wearing heavy duty silver jewelry and collars....i mean, people wear spiked collars, so i guess i'm used to them...

but, i can see why it would upset people who want to change an image, since that is seen as a hard look.....

that chain, however, is just ridiculous. and stupid. and cruel. and not cool.


----------



## Sprocket

See that's the thing, us normal people don't view them as an aggressive image.

I see it through their eyes and view it how the public sees it.

The general public sees it negatively and I will never do that to my dog. 

I would hope that any admirer of the breed would chose to sacrifice their vanity and do the same.


----------



## magicre

i see your point..and i agree with it.

we are not the problem.

but could you picture a pug in a spiked collar? LOL


----------



## xellil

You know, I wonder what the perception would be if I, an old fogey lady, put a spike collar on a pit bull and went out walking with my flip flops and mumu.

I bet people would just think I was nuts and not that the dog was really vicious. 

But if I'm a young black man doing the same thing (minus the flip flops and mumu) i think the perception is different about the dog.

Not that I don't agree with you, Sprocket - I do. But I think sometimes the person on the other end of the leash (or chain) adds to the perception and there's probably some racism going on, too.


----------



## Sprocket

xellil said:


> You know, I wonder what the perception would be if I, an old fogey lady, put a spike collar on a pit bull and went out walking with my flip flops and mumu.
> 
> I bet people would just think I was nuts and not that the dog was really vicious.
> 
> But if I'm a young black man doing the same thing (minus the flip flops and mumu) i think the perception is different about the dog.
> 
> Not that I don't agree with you, Sprocket - I do. But I think sometimes the person on the other end of the leash (or chain) adds to the perception and there's probably some racism going on, too.


Oh of course it has a lot to do with racism depending on who's on the end of the leash.

Unfortunately those "type" of people seem to love bully breeds. 

Still though. Being a 5'3" Portuguese/Finnish girl who wears boots, jeans and t shirts, I still won't even put a spiked collar on my pitbull.


----------



## xellil

no, me neither. Mainly because I would be afraid someone would want their dog to get into a fight with mine - I'm totally with you on that I don't want my dog to appear mean AT ALL. I don't have a pit bull but I have a large Doberman and I hate it when people are afraid of him.


----------



## 7766

Back before I moved, we would walk Stoli and Bella at a park. Both have never been great walking on a leash, but Stoli is worse. He would pull to the point he would choke himself, he would make grunting sounds too. One day these kids walked by us and commented how scary he was. It blew me away, because this dog LOVES everybody. He is on his back with his belly exposed before you can get your arm down to pet his head. But because he was grunting and pulling on the leash he gave off that appearance. At the time he was on a nylon collar and leash.


----------



## Itty bitty Kitty

I admit I never thought much about this. Even whenever I did encounter some pitbulls or Dobermans sport a spiked color, it didn't even phase me. Probably because I was too distracted in admiring the dog to really care about what reputation the collar may be amplifying. I don't know, because it's because I always saw a dog as a dog and never feared them. Or maybe because I'm used to seeing things artistically. I can see how that would encourage the uneducated or close-minded to think otherwise though. Either way the collars never stopped me from seeing if the dogs wanted to say hi to me and they all very lovable. 

I just hope people would see past judgement on certain breeds. I think the problem is hardly anything to do with breed. I think it's stupid owners and people really. I just wish people would take more responsibility for their own interactions 

I confess I do enjoy some collars with studs, specifically this one http://img1.etsystatic.com/il_fullxfull.251492681.jpg and I admit I was considering getting it for my future German Shepherd because I thought it was really cool and a complimenting reflection of my personality and the potential friendship/bond I will have with her. This was more of a fun concept, I don't know how practical it would be as I would have to physically see it to make a better call and if it would be comfortable. Plus I'd be worried if the bullet studs slip. I think it's of people trying to make their dog look aggressive and more of the owners trying to express themselves. I'm sure any negative views are not always intentional.


----------



## magicre

xellil said:


> You know, I wonder what the perception would be if I, an old fogey lady, put a spike collar on a pit bull and went out walking with my flip flops and mumu.
> 
> I bet people would just think I was nuts and not that the dog was really vicious.
> 
> But if I'm a young black man doing the same thing (minus the flip flops and mumu) i think the perception is different about the dog.
> 
> Not that I don't agree with you, Sprocket - I do. But I think sometimes the person on the other end of the leash (or chain) adds to the perception and there's probably some racism going on, too.


the image you just painted in my head...muu muu and all....tell me, do you have one of those 'i love lucy' things on your head, too? LOL


----------



## xellil

magicre said:


> the image you just painted in my head...muu muu and all....tell me, do you have a do rag on your head, too? LOL


Oh I hadn't thought about a do rag but that would be a nice touch! hubby wears them all the time and my favorite has a skull and crossbones.


----------



## magicre

xellil said:


> Oh I hadn't thought about a do rag but that would be a nice touch! hubby wears them all the time and my favorite has a skull and crossbones.



does hubby have a harley too?


----------



## xellil

magicre said:


> does hubby have a harley too?


yes, he does - we have a little bag for him to carry Snorkels on it but we haven't done it yet. Maybe we could get her a spiked collar for motorcycle rides.


----------



## Caty M

xellil said:


> yes, he does - we have a little bag for him to carry Snorkels on it but we haven't done it yet. Maybe we could get her a spiked collar for motorcycle rides.


I have a bag for Tessie! She LOVES it.


----------



## Sprocket

xellil said:


> yes, he does - we have a little bag for him to carry Snorkels on it but we haven't done it yet. Maybe we could get her a spiked collar for motorcycle rides.


We use to put Sprocket in a backpack for short rides on Drews motorcycle.!



Caty M said:


> I have a bag for Tessie! She LOVES it.


I carried Sprocket in my bag/purse since day one of having him so being in a bag is old news to him :wink:

He adapted so easily to riding the motorcycle. 

I kind of miss the yamaha Midnight warrior but then I think about the time Drew jumped it off a boat launch ramp and my butt flew up a foot off the seat....yeah I'm glad he sold it!


----------



## wolfsnaps88

When I went to look at Dozer (to see if I wanted to buy him) He had a thick leather collar with a double row of spikes. Not knowing him, he is ALREADY an intimidating looking dog. The collar just added to that. The only thing I could think of was "If he plays with other dogs, that is a potential eye poker outer". Yeah, the dog mom in me was thinking more about safety than anything. The guy ended up keeping the collar and I could care less.

I did buy one for Sarge a long time ago. he didn't wear it long. I just thought it was funny. 

Now me on the other hand, I have worn spiked collars for Halloween and love them  


I think people want to convey a certain bad assery of their dogs....a pissing contest.


----------



## Caty M

I use a modified baby carrier type thing (the backpack ones you have on your chest) with a clip for a leash and I zip a big coat on over it!


----------



## xellil

Caty M said:


> I have a bag for Tessie! She LOVES it.


Really? Hubby got one that goes up against his chest. We looked at the seats that go behind the rider but he thought she was too far away from him. 

I'm going to tell him about Tess - I think he's been a little nervous about taking her.


----------



## xellil

Sprocket said:


> We use to put Sprocket in a backpack for short rides on Drews motorcycle.!
> 
> 
> 
> I carried Sprocket in my bag/purse since day one of having him so being in a bag is old news to him :wink:
> 
> He adapted so easily to riding the motorcycle.
> 
> I kind of miss the yamaha Midnight warrior but then I think about the time Drew jumped it off a boat launch ramp and my butt flew up a foot off the seat....yeah I'm glad he sold it!


The motorcycles you guys ride are NOT like the motorcycle hubby has!


----------



## Caty M

I have a Suzuki GS500(small sportbike type thing) and the bf has an Intruder 1500 (big cruiser). I never put her on when I am riding cause I am new- only when I'm on the back of the bf's. I slowly got her used to it- I didn't just stick her in and roar down the highway LOL.


----------



## xellil

Caty M said:


> I have a Suzuki GS500(small sportbike type thing) and the bf has an Intruder 1500 (big cruiser). I never put her on when I am riding cause I am new- only when I'm on the back of the bf's. I slowly got her used to it- I didn't just stick her in and roar down the highway LOL.


We've been taking her around it to get used to the noise. Although I'm really sure she doesn't very much. It doesn't seem to bother her. What I think he should do is put her on it and just putt down to the barn and see how she does.


----------



## Sprocket

xellil said:


> The motorcycles you guys ride are NOT like the motorcycle hubby has!


No?










:tongue:


----------



## xellil

Sprocket said:


> No?


oh they kinda are! The ones I've seen photos of I guess have been dirt bikes?


----------



## Sprocket

xellil said:


> oh they kinda are! The ones I've seen photos of I guess have been dirt bikes?


Yeah well there are dirt bikes and race quads and 4 wheelers and he did have a streetbike once (we call them crotch rockets).

******** love things with wheels...and boobies. LOL


----------



## meggels

I want a baby Bjorne thing to carry murph in on walks lol


----------



## MollyWoppy

meggels said:


> I want a baby Bjorne thing to carry murph in on walks lol


Or Windy the cat. Blush. I'm a read bad arse!


----------



## mischiefgrrl

Sprocket said:


> That is very true, unfortunately, not every thinks that way and the dog always suffers because of it.
> 
> I take owning a pitbull seriously. I would never create a reason for someone to not like him.


I wish I encountered more pitbull owners like you in Los Angeles. Unfortunately, most people here either want one to be tough, or they see that playful fun side of them and don't realize that they can be DA so they don't know how to handle them. I've had friends with pitbulls who's dogs were absolutely wonderful and I had no idea that they could be DA until Tanis was attacked.

I used to have a leather collar for Tanis (NOT spiked) and when he was attacked by a pitbull, that little leather collar may have saved his life. He lost the tip of his ear and had just one puncture wound on his neck but it could've been much worse. There were puncture marks from her teeth in the collar that kept those from going into his throat.


----------



## xellil

mischiefgrrl said:


> I wish I encountered more pitbull owners like you in Los Angeles. Unfortunately, most people here either want one to be tough, or they see that playful fun side of them and don't realize that they can be DA so they don't know how to handle them. I've had friends with pitbulls who's dogs were absolutely wonderful and I had no idea that they could be DA until Tanis was attacked.
> 
> I used to have a leather collar for Tanis (NOT spiked) and when he was attacked by a pitbull, that little leather collar may have saved his life. He lost the tip of his ear and had just one puncture wound on his neck but it could've been much worse. There were puncture marks from her teeth in the collar that kept those from going into his throat.


Yikes. I'm so glad he was ok after that!


----------



## mischiefgrrl

xellil said:


> Yikes. I'm so glad he was ok after that!


Me too! Ironically, it's what led us to this forum. The wounds were the start of his skin conditions. He went on antibiotics and the cycle began...

Seriously Sprocket, I wish you would come to LA and educate people on the breed! We have Shorty Rossi here who is well intended, but he spreads a message that is unrealistic.


----------



## Sprocket

mischiefgrrl said:


> Me too! Ironically, it's what led us to this forum. The wounds were the start of his skin conditions. He went on antibiotics and the cycle began...
> 
> Seriously Sprocket, I wish you would come to LA and educate people on the breed! We have Shorty Rossi here who is well intended, but he spreads a message that is unrealistic.


Big city's terrify me.

I wish it were possible though.


----------



## Dude and Bucks Mamma

lovemydogsalways said:


> Emma would do this too, luckily she never got through the leashes. I didn't go buy a chain one because I had plenty of old nylon ones around, but if not that would have been the next step. Little naughty puppies LOL


I went through leash after leash with this pup. I actually still have one of them and about 4 inches above the metal it is chewed 2/3 of the way through. I didn't have a ton of money to spend (I was 13) so I bought the one leash to prevent me from having to keep buying more. Hahaha. It worked like a charm. He didn't like it in his mouth so he didn't even try to chew through it.



xellil said:


> Rebel has golden eyes. I am quite fascinated by them as I don't remember another dog that didn't have black eyes.
> 
> although he CAN be kind of creepy looking at times. If I didnt' know him, I'd be scared of him because a stare looks alot more intense to me with lighter colored eyes, and he stares at me alot.


Dude's eyes are nearly black and Buck's are golden. Buck's stare is so much more intense. He has the same color eyes as Rhett but his don't "pop" as much as Rhett's do. Both dogs have these intense stares that can be kind of intimidating since both are great with their eye contact. It's pretty neat. I love the lighter eyes. 



catahoulamom said:


> Oh yes, I've seen the regular chain leashes with a nylon handle that a lot of people use for the same reason as you - because their dogs chew through the leash. I totally understand the purpose for those and don't find them menacing at all. I was talking more about something like this, but with the chain being used as a collar as well. It's pretty popular down here, apparently.


Ew weird. That's something I would use for Halloween or something. I've always wanted to dye Dude black and tie him out front with me so he looks like a chained up wolf. Hahaha. That's what I would use... My boys have "chain collars" for October. I bought one of those hollow plastic chains at Walmart and they wear them in October. I love it. Hahaha.

This is what I have (chrome not black chrome):
Chain Leashes


----------



## CoverTune

I don't know if this has been discussed here yet (and if so, please just point me to the appropriate page), but do you think cropping/docking falls under this same category?


----------



## lauren43

Is this too spiked for you?









Or this?









For me those are not spikes those are studs. They do not hurt and I really don't think they make Avery look meaner or tougher...regardless if someone approached us on the street Avery probably would bark at them as he is terrified of strangers, unless they have treats.


----------



## Dude and Bucks Mamma

CoverTune said:


> I don't know if this has been discussed here yet (and if so, please just point me to the appropriate page), but do you think cropping/docking falls under this same category?


There was a very heated thread about this a while back. It's a sensitive subject so, personally, it's not one I would bring into this thread.

Lauren43, I love those collars on Avery. I think they both make him look very nice and not intimidating at all.


----------



## kady05

lauren43 said:


> Is this too spiked for you?


Those better not be! Like you said, those aren't spikes. All of my dogs leather collars are from Ella's Lead and look similar to those that you posted.

I haven't read all.. 11 pages of responses since I last posted, so this is FWIW.

Quite frankly, if the collars I put on my dogs "scare" someone away, then so be it, I don't want to associate with them anyway. The type of collar put on a dog doesn't effect the dogs personality, most sane people realize that.

I also don't think it's very fair to say that spiked collars are okay on toy breeds, but larger "power" breeds are a no-no. Like I said earlier, the large (let's say longer than 1/2") spiked collars I don't like, but some of them look nice and I have no problem with them on any breed of dog. But then again, I don't like treating my dogs differently than the average Lab walking down the street. Putting a spiked collar on them doesn't automatically make them fire breathing monsters. I have a ton of "cutesy" collars for my dogs, even collar ruffles for certain holidays. Despite wearing them out in public (and even when Wilson & Sako wear their TDI tags which are bright yellow and say "I AM A THERAPY DOG"), I have had people shy away from my dogs. If someone is going to be afraid of my dogs, I honestly don't think the collar makes that much of a difference.


----------



## Sprocket

Kady - We don't always have to agree on everything.

I feel differently.

The problem with owning a pitbull is that they ARE perceived differently whether we like it or not. 

I'd rather my dog be perceived as sweet rather than mean.

Like I have said multiple times, the public judges them by their cover first. 


Lauren - No. Those are studs not spikes.


----------



## Sprocket

CoverTune said:


> I don't know if this has been discussed here yet (and if so, please just point me to the appropriate page), but do you think cropping/docking falls under this same category?


I have my own opinion about mutilating...I mean cropping and docking for vanity.

No those subjects do not have any thing to do with this issue.


----------



## xellil

CoverTune said:


> I don't know if this has been discussed here yet (and if so, please just point me to the appropriate page), but do you think cropping/docking falls under this same category?


HAHA - now THAT can of worms hasn't been popped open for awhile!! If you do a search, you will find at least one thread where everyone was eventually sent to their rooms.


----------



## kady05

Sprocket said:


> Kady - We don't always have to agree on everything.
> 
> I feel differently.
> 
> The problem with owning a pitbull is that they ARE perceived differently whether we like it or not.
> 
> I'd rather my dog be perceived as sweet rather than mean.
> 
> Like I have said multiple times, the public judges them by their cover first.


Never said we did 

I could care less what the public thinks about my dogs. Generally speaking, their opinions are already formed WAY before they meet them. I've had parents allow their kids to be all over my guys and about 2min. into it they ask "What breed is he?", and when I say Pit Bull mix, it's "*GASP* OMG Bobby, get away from that dog!" Collar wouldn't make any difference with someone like that. 

I also don't agree with treating Pit Bulls (or any breed that's generally perceived as aggressive to the public) any different than other dogs. That's just perpetuating the image that they ARE different and should be treated as such.



Sprocket said:


> I have my own opinion about mutilating...I mean cropping and docking for vanity.


You just had to throw that little jab in there, didn't you?


----------



## Sprocket

kady05 said:


> Never said we did
> 
> I could care less what the public thinks about my dogs. Generally speaking, their opinions are already formed WAY before they meet them. I've had parents allow their kids to be all over my guys and about 2min. into it they ask "What breed is he?", and when I say Pit Bull mix, it's "*GASP* OMG Bobby, get away from that dog!" Collar wouldn't make any difference with someone like that.
> 
> I also don't agree with treating Pit Bulls (or any breed that's generally perceived as aggressive to the public) any different than other dogs. That's just perpetuating the image that they ARE different and should be treated as such.


IMO/E collars do make a difference in the first impression. 

Now I am repeating myself. GOOD GRIEF!

I would rather have my dogs cover be as inviting as possible because I DO CARE about changing people opinions. 

I have done it, it feels wonderful!

I guess I'm just more selfless than other pitbull owners.









kady05 said:


> You just had to throw that little jab in there, didn't you?


To each their own.


----------



## Liz

Most of the perception is myth. I don't own any bully breeds but I can see where it can cause a person to question regarding the safety of a particular dog when it is "dressed" to look intimidating. I think those leather martingales and collars with studs and such look stunning but if I owned a bully breed would be cautious where I took my dog with that on. Even my collies wear seasonal bandanas and such because they are a large breed and can be intimidating to the clueless public. JMHO I think your bullies - all the different breeds of bully style dogs from tiny Frenchies and Pugs to intimidating Mastiff's (which probably shouldn't be included in that group) are gorgeous.


----------



## kady05

Sprocket said:


> I would rather have my dogs cover be as inviting as possible because I DO CARE about changing people opinions.
> 
> I have done it, it feels wonderful!
> 
> I guess I'm just more selfless than other pitbull owners.


What's that supposed to mean? I haven't changed peoples opinions with my dogs? Definitely not. All of my dogs are CGC's and two are therapy dogs.. obviously I care about helping to change the breeds perception. 

What I'm saying is that if someone forms an opinion of my dogs solely based on the collar they're wearing, more than likely it's not going to matter what I (or my dogs) say or do. Like I said, my dogs go out in collars like this:










And certain people still shy away. Wouldn't make any difference if they were wearing a collar with 3" spikes on it or not. Some people hate Pit Bulls, it's a fact of life and it's not going to change for many years to come. 

Wilson wears this collar a lot:










(TDI tag clearly visible) 
Yet people are still terrified of him (people shy away from him more than my other two). I had a salesperson at a pet store I brought him to say, "Man, it's too bad he's a Pit Bull, I can't stand those dogs. My daughter wants one but I will NEVER allow one in my home." This was while he was performing his tricks for a group of 10 people, including kids. Did I try to educate her a bit? Sure. But I'm not wasting my time on people like that. Unfortunately that's what we as Pit Bull owners have to deal with. Perhaps that's why I have such thick skin and say that I could care less what people think.. if I DID, and let it get to me, I'd be a damn basket case!


----------



## Liz

I love those plaid collars - and your dogs have such happy smiles. People can be foolish and I don't think you should waste time trying to change their minds but i think some owners go out of their way to make their dogs look intimidating. Anyway I have no stake in this debate as I have no bully breeds but owning big dogs or powerful dogs is intimidating to the less knowledgeable.


----------



## xellil

Liz said:


> I love those plaid collars - and your dogs have such happy smiles. People can be foolish and I don't think you should waste time trying to change their minds but i think some owners go out of their way to make their dogs look intimidating. Anyway I have no stake in this debate as I have no bully breeds but owning big dogs or powerful dogs is intimidating to the less knowledgeable.


I never expect people to be scared of my dog because I've never been scared of any dog, any size - my husband has always been leery of large dogs and he hates for me to even go through the drive in with the window down so Rebel can stick his head out because he says it scares the people handing me my drink.

Or letting him go out to greet people who come to visit - he doesn't jump, bark, etc. I have to admit, I just don't get it. I keep trying to look at large dogs or pit bulls from other peoples' eyes and I just can't see being afraid of a friendly dog.


----------



## Liz

I have actually had a few people scared of my collies and I think - "you're scared of Lassie? Really? how sad. Mostly though my poor guys get mauled by anyone and everyone who decides to hug and kiss them - this scares me because they are still just dogs and if I get startled they must also. people are silly. Doberman's get it a lot - people see scary I see elegant. Mastiffs - pit's, staffy's I mostly see as goofy and funny. That's just me and many years as a trainer - I now am more leary of Golden's, Lab's, and aussies as bite culprits not to mention the little ankle biters. LOL


----------



## mischiefgrrl

Liz said:


> I have actually had a few people scared of my collies and I think - "you're scared of Lassie? Really? how sad. Mostly though my poor guys get mauled by anyone and everyone who decides to hug and kiss them - this scares me because they are still just dogs and if I get startled they must also. people are silly. Doberman's get it a lot - people see scary I see elegant. Mastiffs - pit's, staffy's I mostly see as goofy and funny. That's just me and many years as a trainer - I now am more leary of Golden's, Lab's, and aussies as bite culprits not to mention the little ankle biters. LOL


So true... my old Aussie Buster - was a nose buster. I always told people when they leaned in for a kiss from him - the first time he kisses. The second time he headbutts. They never listened.....

No one ever crossed the street when I was walking with Buster. With Tanis, people will cross the street and steer as far away from him as possible. I don't get it. His ears are up, he's got a HUGE grin on his face and tail wagging. I guess if you are afraid of dogs and can't read behaviour that could be scary. Though he is a huge dude magnet, men will drop everything literally to pet, hug and kiss on him. I love this dog ;-)


----------



## NewYorkDogue

Liz said:


> I have actually had a few people scared of my collies and I think - "you're scared of Lassie? Really? how sad. Mostly though my poor guys get mauled by anyone and everyone who decides to hug and kiss them - this scares me because they are still just dogs and if I get startled they must also. people are silly. Doberman's get it a lot - people see scary I see elegant. Mastiffs - pit's, staffy's I mostly see as goofy and funny. That's just me and many years as a trainer - I now am more leary of Golden's, Lab's, and aussies as bite culprits not to mention the little ankle biters. LOL


When I walk down the street with Mateo, who is about 116 pounds, most people's faces soften. They smile and want to meet him, pet him, ask about him... Most people. Occasionally, a person will veer way around us and say, "Sorry, I am afraid of dogs...". Or it's the high school kids who squeal and jump out of the way... as a way of, I don't know, acting out amongst their friends...

Mateo is a large dog, and growing larger every day. Yet, I think either his big, squishy face, full of wrinkles, softens his "look", or his demeanor is non-threatening. I could probably sway some people towards the aggressive image if I blinged him all up with some heavy chains and neck hardware. But, it just wouldn't suit him. i use the collars/leashes that work well for me in terms of control and comfort for my dog. I like leather, so leather it is.


----------



## Sprocket

Kady- although I quoted you, my post wasn't directly about you.

I know and commend you for your work with your dogs.

THANK YOU for being a great bully breed owner. We need more like you.

We want the same thing in the end.

Does it really matter how we each chose to get there?


----------



## xellil

Remember the fellow who did all the work with the pitbulls? His name here was committedtoexcellence I think. I miss him. And i would have been interested in what he thought about spiked collars.


----------



## GoingPostal

IDK, maybe it works in your area, but I have never ever had anyone be like "cute collar" and want to pet them. There's pretty much two groups of people who approach my dogs, other pit bull owners who want to breed theirs to mine, and kids who want to pet every dog that walks by. The friends and family who feared the breed before don't like pit bulls anymore than they used to, they like MY pit bulls, my mom still thinks Jersey "looks mean" all because her ears are cropped. I had big dreams of changing minds with well behaved dogs when we first got into the breed and la dee da, but all I've found over the years is it doesn't happen, people don't care about the millions of well behaved lovely pit bulls, they care about the 1% that are aggressive with stupid owners. 

Also, pit bull. Two words. I guess I just don't see what's so wrong about putting YOUR dog in whatever gear you like, I'm just happy to see a pit bull on a leash or wearing a collar most of the time, it's not every owners job to change minds, some people just want a dog and to enjoy that dog. They should have that right without being judged by the holier than thou group.


----------



## Dude and Bucks Mamma

I thought he was still here? When/Why did he leave? I liked him a lot too.

You know, when I put Buck's leash on him as a halter when his mind goes haywire and he stops listening (usually at the end of a long day of being out and about) people do tend to think I have it on him because he bites... Because a halter TOTALLY keeps him from biting. Sheesh... However, it makes no difference to people when he is wearing a prong collar.

If anything, I would think that a prong collar would make a dog look intimidating. And Buck is getting to be a big dog. Fortunately, he no longer needs a prong collar but that really never made a difference to people regardless of where we were.


----------



## magicre

i have found, from experience, that yorkies can be dangerous and giant russian terriers can be big babies....

i just ask the owner if i can pet and what is the best way.

i have people who are scared of my corgi mix and my pug. my pug who can't bite.....because of the shape of his mouth. people are scared of a pug. puh leeze.

however, a scared dog is a scared dog...and if you rush my shih tzu he will bite, g'd rest his soul....and they are amongst the least scary dogs.

i just don't get it. dogs are dogs...ask the owner. 

i truly dislike the haters...they are racists of the worst kind.


----------



## Sprocket

GoingPostal said:


> IDK, maybe it works in your area, but I have never ever had anyone be like "cute collar" and want to pet them. There's pretty much two groups of people who approach my dogs, other pit bull owners who want to breed theirs to mine, and kids who want to pet every dog that walks by. The friends and family who feared the breed before don't like pit bulls anymore than they used to, they like MY pit bulls, my mom still thinks Jersey "looks mean" all because her ears are cropped. I had big dreams of changing minds with well behaved dogs when we first got into the breed and la dee da, but all I've found over the years is it doesn't happen, people don't care about the millions of well behaved lovely pit bulls, they care about the 1% that are aggressive with stupid owners.
> 
> Also, pit bull. Two words. I guess I just don't see what's so wrong about putting YOUR dog in whatever gear you like, I'm just happy to see a pit bull on a leash or wearing a collar most of the time, it's not every owners job to change minds, some people just want a dog and to enjoy that dog. They should have that right without being judged by the holier than thou group.


I am not "holier than thou", thank you for that fine remark.

I simply would not and don't like seeing other dogs in them.

I have met people who say "what a sweet dog!" and they SMILE rather than give dirty looks and walk away. The collar is a conversation piece, something to build off of rather than put up a spiky wall.

Maybe my area is more open to this breed.

I get that it's personal preference but that is my point. I care enough about this breed that I am willing to not ever put my dog in a position to be judged negatively. Other bully breed owners may not feel that way but if they truly loved the breed, they would sacrifice their own selfish vanity and put their dog in the best light.

As I have said MULTIPLE TIMES, People do judge the dog by it's cover first. My dogs cover is approachable.

THAT IS MY POINT.


----------



## kady05

Sprocket said:


> Kady- although I quoted you, my post wasn't directly about you.
> 
> I know and commend you for your work with your dogs.
> 
> THANK YOU for being a great bully breed owner. We need more like you.
> 
> We want the same thing in the end.
> 
> Does it really matter how we each chose to get there?


Nope, not really 

And thank you, I think you do a great job as well.



xellil said:


> Remember the fellow who did all the work with the pitbulls? His name here was committedtoexcellence I think. I miss him. And i would have been interested in what he thought about spiked collars.


I think he's still around. I'm his friend on FB, he's VERY busy with his dogs which is probably why he doesn't post too often!


----------



## Dude and Bucks Mamma

Another thing I have found is that, just because someone likes YOUR pit bull does not mean that they will change their minds about the breed or even your dog. 

My stepfather is a pit bull hater. My mom, who grew up with one, is kind of a pit bull hater. Brandy did not like black men and I believe that it was a reflection of my racist grandfather (who is racist against Mexicans but has a mexican granddaughter *me* Haha). Dogs pick up on our feelings and I believe that Brandy only reacted that way towards black men because my grandfather did not like them. Although she was a great dog who never bit anyone, my mom looks back on this racist dog (who was eventually taken by her sister who raised her first daughter with the dog) and feels that she was a danger. My family is not like us. Brandy had no kind of training outside of the few manners my grandfather taught her. She never had her CGC, was never a therapy dog, was never taken to training classes.

Regardless of that, my mom still grew up with one and loved her dearly yet she would NEVER own a pit bull again.

Jim, my stepfather, thinks they are evil creatures with only an intent to kill babies. Ok, maybe not THAT extreme... But it is to the point where he will not let my little brothers even go over to my cousins' house because they have a pit bull, Billy. Billy is a small pit bull and is very lean. He is friendly and sweet and has the best disposition. He has lived with JRTs since he was a pup. His adoptive mother was one of their JRTs. Jim has met Billy on numerous occasions... But he still will not allow my little brothers over there. 

A friend of the family's has a big grey and white pit who looks a lot like Gunner. Jim got the opportunity to meet this dog. Jim was on the floor with Brutus in his lap and Brutus was like a puppy. He was as happy as can be that the new person was on the floor with him rubbing his belly. Jim went on and on about how gorgeous Brutus is and how sweet he is and how awesome of a dog he is. Yet the very next day, a pit bull conversation came up and it was like the day before hadn't even happened. 

My grandfather is a pit bull hater too. He is a man who raised his daughters with a pit bull and raised his granddaughter (me) with two dobermans and a rottweiler. Yet when my cousin, who owns an american bulldog/pit bull mix named Tank, became pregnant, he demanded that she get rid of Tank because Tank would kill the baby. The sad thing is, I was only dating Nick at the time and I have always been adamant that I will never have kids, Papa got a little carried away and started trying to tell me to get rid of Dude. haha. But that's beside the point. 

The point is that most people who are against a breed absolutely refuse to listen to reason and, just because someone momentarily falls in love with your pit bull, it doesn't mean that you have changed their mind on the breed. 

I am in no way telling you to stop trying. I think that is all good pit bull owners can do. I don't even own one and was actually kicked out of my house by my mom when I was in high school because I refused to agree that they are bloodthirsty monsters. I just thought I would share the experiences I have had with close family members of mine.


----------



## Sprocket

FWIW- My friends and family love pitbulls now because of Gunner.

Drews parents were talking about getting one when Cayanne dies. I recommend that they NOT get one because they need a dog that can just lay around all day and be happy with a walk around the block....


My boss met Gunner and few times and recently said that she might have to change her policy about "no pitbulls at her boarding facility. 

My bosses friend/my friends mom said that she adores Gunner and now has an open mind about pitbulls.

Multiple friends of mine have opened their eyes and changed their minds about the breed. 

My mom was terrified of them. She now realises that their looks are very deceiving.

I have many many people compliment me and a few thank you's for having a polite, well mannered trained pitbull.

I had an old couple with a pug mix that asked me about Gunner. They left smiling, instead of afraid.

People do change their minds. I'm not trying to change everyones mind, but each one is leaps and bounds above nothing.

If there was 5 owners willing to go the extra mile in every city. Imagine what we could do.


----------



## Sprocket

This mentality that one person can't make a difference is ridiculous.

It may not be a huge difference but it matters.

Just because some people might not change their minds doesn't mean it's hopeless and I should just not care at all.



I am really disappointed in some of these posts. I'm not going to lie.


----------



## Dude and Bucks Mamma

Sprocket said:


> FWIW- My friends and family love pitbulls now because of Gunner.
> 
> Drews parents were talking about getting one when Cayanne dies. I recommend that they NOT get one because they need a dog that can just lay around all day and be happy with a walk around the block....
> 
> 
> My boss met Gunner and few times and recently said that she might have to change her policy about "no pitbulls at her boarding facility.
> 
> My bosses friend/my friends mom said that she adores Gunner and now has an open mind about pitbulls.
> 
> Multiple friends of mine have opened their eyes and changed their minds about the breed.
> 
> My mom was terrified of them. She now realises that their looks are very deceiving.
> 
> I have many many people compliment me and a few thank you's for having a polite, well mannered trained pitbull.
> 
> I had an old couple with a pug mix that asked me about Gunner. They left smiling, instead of afraid.
> 
> People do change their minds. I'm not trying to change everyones mind, but each one is leaps and bounds above nothing.
> 
> If there was 5 owners willing to go the extra mile in every city. Imagine what we could do.


I never said that people don't. I am merely providing examples that show that, no matter how awesome thinks your dog is at the moment, they are very capable of forgetting it the minute Gunner is out of sight. I know three people just like that and, unfortunately, all of them are related to me. But hey, you can't choose your relatives... Or who your mom marries...



I don't see this thread going anywhere fast. You are only getting mad at those who are not completely against these collars. That is not going to win anyone over. Saying things like "I care enough about this breed that I am willing to not ever put my dog in a position to be judged negatively. Other bully breed owners may not feel that way but if they truly loved the breed, they would sacrifice their own selfish vanity and put their dog in the best light" is only going to make other bully breed owners set themselves against you. Not all of them feel the way you do about these collars but that doesn't mean they love the breed any less. You know how kibble feeders hate it when raw feeders insinuate that we love our dogs more? To me, this is the same thing. Nick's uncle loves his dogs just as much as Nick and I love ours and he feeds kibble. I see the same situation here.

I, for one, feel that when the collar is not hugely spiky, can be grabbed without pain to my hand, and doesn't restrict the dog from reaching around to lick his unmentionables, it can make the dog look very regal. Most of them are tacky looking, yes, but a well thought out collar with small spikes on it can make a dog look very handsome. 

But that is my OPINION. I don't care if you choose not to put a spike collar on Gunner. I don't are if you do. I simply don't care. You can put whatever you want on your dog because he is your dog. I am not going to get upset with you for doing so. 



Sprocket said:


> This mentality that one person can't make a difference is ridiculous.
> 
> It may not be a huge difference but it matters.
> 
> Just because some people might not change their minds doesn't mean it's hopeless and I should just not care at all.
> 
> 
> 
> I am really disappointed in some of these posts. I'm not going to lie.


I don't think anyone said that. Of course one person can make a difference. You and Kady both make a difference all the time.


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## Sprocket

Dude and Bucks Mamma said:


> I never said that people don't. I am merely providing examples that show that, no matter how awesome thinks your dog is at the moment, they are very capable of forgetting it the minute Gunner is out of sight. I know three people just like that and, unfortunately, all of them are related to me. But hey, you can't choose your relatives... Or who your mom marries...
> 
> 
> 
> I don't see this thread going anywhere fast. You are only getting mad at those who are not completely against these collars. That is not going to win anyone over. Saying things like "I care enough about this breed that I am willing to not ever put my dog in a position to be judged negatively. Other bully breed owners may not feel that way but if they truly loved the breed, they would sacrifice their own selfish vanity and put their dog in the best light" is only going to make other bully breed owners set themselves against you. Not all of them feel the way you do about these collars but that doesn't mean they love the breed any less. You know how kibble feeders hate it when raw feeders insinuate that we love our dogs more? To me, this is the same thing. Nick's uncle loves his dogs just as much as Nick and I love ours and he feeds kibble. I see the same situation here.
> 
> I, for one, feel that when the collar is not hugely spiky, can be grabbed without pain to my hand, and doesn't restrict the dog from reaching around to lick his unmentionables, it can make the dog look very regal. Most of them are tacky looking, yes, but a well thought out collar with small spikes on it can make a dog look very handsome.
> 
> But that is my OPINION. I don't care if you choose not to put a spike collar on Gunner. I don't are if you do. I simply don't care. You can put whatever you want on your dog because he is your dog. I am not going to get upset with you for doing so.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think anyone said that. Of course one person can make a difference. You and Kady both make a difference all the time.


I am not "mad", please do not make assumptions. Mostly sad, but not surprised. 

I am usually the odd one out.

FWIW - I do strongly believe that if you love and care about something that you NEVER do it wrong.

Of course no one will agree with me and every one will agree with you so I give up.

I'll keep doing what I do and believe in because I have seen results and I am a dreamer.

I have already requested this to be locked. Should be any moment now.


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## catahoulamom

I was sitting on Lincoln Rd in South Beach with Rambo last night outside of Starbucks. He was wearing his Paco collar in the attached picture.

Most people stared as they walked by. I don't blame them, he is pretty freakin handsome.  But that's besides the point - I noticed most of the people would walk a few feet around us and give us plenty of space, while watching the dog. A group of kids walked by and when a couple of them came over to pet him and give him a treat the lady that was with them grabbed them by the arm and told them to "never go up to a dog like that". Maybe it was just her giving the kid good advice (not to go up to a strange dog) or maybe she was saying don't go up to a dog LIKE THAT - as in big scary pit bull, whatever. It didn't really bother me either way since I'd rather people just leave us alone anyways. Then a couple walked up and the guy asked if he could pet him, and told me that he used to have a pit bull. His girlfriend said that he is a beautiful dog, but asked me why I'd have such a "mean looking collar" on him (she was keeping her distance). I didn't really know what to say except tell her that I didn't think his collar was mean-looking, and that certainly wasn't my intention. Her boyfriend remarked that he loved the collar and asked me how much it cost. 

Not really any valuable information, I just found it bizarre. People obviously have preconceived notions on lots of different breeds.


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## Sprocket

I think that collar is beautiful. 

I wish I could afford nice collars like that.


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## Dude and Bucks Mamma

Sprocket said:


> I think that collar is beautiful.
> 
> I wish I could afford nice collars like that.


I'm in the same boat. There are a ton of Paco's I want for Buck but I can't afford them.

And, for what it's worth, I was not trying to insult you or saying that you are wrong for doing what you do. I think it is great that you do what you can to change people's minds about such a misjudged breed. I just don't think it fair to tell all of us who don't mind spiked collars that we are wrong. 

And to do a breed wrong... That can be many things. I am sure that there are many people out there who feel as though I am doing wrong by Buck by having a hound who will never hunt or even by having a herder who will never herd. I live in an apartment with them and many people think that is wrong but I am not going to give up my dogs or go out and buy property simply because some people don't like that I have these dogs in an apartment... As much as I would love to.


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## Sprocket

Dude and Bucks Mamma said:


> I'm in the same boat. There are a ton of Paco's I want for Buck but I can't afford them.
> 
> And, for what it's worth, I was not trying to insult you or saying that you are wrong for doing what you do. I think it is great that you do what you can to change people's minds about such a misjudged breed. I just don't think it fair to tell all of us who don't mind spiked collars that we are wrong.
> 
> And to do a breed wrong... That can be many things. I am sure that there are many people out there who feel as though I am doing wrong by Buck by having a hound who will never hunt or even by having a herder who will never herd. I live in an apartment with them and many people think that is wrong but I am not going to give up my dogs or go out and buy property simply because some people don't like that I have these dogs in an apartment... As much as I would love to.



That is completely different than owning a breed that is judged so unfairly and mismanaged by so many people.


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## Dude and Bucks Mamma

Sprocket said:


> FWIW - I do strongly believe that if you love and care about something that you NEVER do it wrong.


You have "never" in all caps so no, it is not completely different. It may be a different circumstance but never means never not just when it is a certain breed.

Buck and Dude might not be pit bulls but, according to a lot of people, again, a lot of them being family, I am doing wrong by them. According to your statement that means that I do not love and care about them. Most of my family would rather see a pit bull dressed in chains and leather than a hound and a herder living in an apartment. 

And, BTW, hounds are very mismanaged by most people who own them. They are not family members to most hound owners. They are hunting dogs who are often abandoned when they don't do their job well or left behind when they get lost. No, they are not perceived as "dangerous" but properly managed, they are not.


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## Sprocket

Dude and Bucks Mamma said:


> You have "never" in all caps so no, it is not completely different. It may be a different circumstance but never means never not just when it is a certain breed.
> 
> Buck and Dude might not be pit bulls but, according to a lot of people, again, a lot of them being family, I am doing wrong by them. According to your statement that means that I do not love and care about them. Most of my family would rather see a pit bull dressed in chains and leather than a hound and a herder living in an apartment.
> 
> And, BTW, hounds are very mismanaged by most people who own them. They are not family members to most hound owners. They are hunting dogs who are often abandoned when they don't do their job well or left behind when they get lost. No, they are not perceived as "dangerous" but properly managed, they are not.



Well of course there is an exception to every rule.

I dont believe that having a hound and a herder in an apartment is taboo IF they all their needs are met.

Your dogs aren't destroying your house from boredom so I would think you are doing everything right.

Comparing a breed that is descriminated against nationally, is instantly judged merely for looking a certain way, to a hunting dog that is abandon (like many many dogs in this world), is not a fair comparison. 

It just doesn't work.

Now when your breed is outlawed, muzzled, and PTS for looking the way they do, then we can talk.


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## meggels

magicre said:


> i have found, from experience, that yorkies can be dangerous and giant russian terriers can be big babies....
> 
> i just ask the owner if i can pet and what is the best way.
> 
> i have people who are scared of my corgi mix and my pug. my pug who can't bite.....because of the shape of his mouth. people are scared of a pug. puh leeze.
> 
> however, a scared dog is a scared dog...and if you rush my shih tzu he will bite, g'd rest his soul....and they are amongst the least scary dogs.
> 
> i just don't get it. dogs are dogs...ask the owner.
> 
> i truly dislike the haters...they are racists of the worst kind.



Lol, reminds me of the woman a few months ago who was terrified of Murphy. MURPHY! The most laid back, gentle, sweet dog lol. He trotted up to her and I kid you not, she SHRIEKED, and RAN into the apartment building. I wish I had gotten a picture of my face after it happened, I just stood there like "what the hell just happened....?". Murph probably had the same look too.


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## meggels

Dude and Bucks Mamma said:


> I don't see this thread going anywhere fast. You are only getting mad at those who are not completely against these collars. That is not going to win anyone over. Saying things like "I care enough about this breed that I am willing to not ever put my dog in a position to be judged negatively. Other bully breed owners may not feel that way but if they truly loved the breed, they would sacrifice their own selfish vanity and put their dog in the best light" is only going to make other bully breed owners set themselves against you. <b>Not all of them feel the way you do about these collars but that doesn't mean they love the breed any less. You know how kibble feeders hate it when raw feeders insinuate that we love our dogs more? To me, this is the same thing</b>. Nick's uncle loves his dogs just as much as Nick and I love ours and he feeds kibble. I see the same situation here



That. I really don't think it's fair to judge people's love of their dog based on whether or not they have a certain view point about something as little as a collar. It's not fair.


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## Sprocket

meggels said:


> That. I really don't think it's fair to judge people's love of their dog based on whether or not they have a certain view point about something as little as a collar. It's not fair.


People judge the dog. 

That's not fair either.

I don't give a crap about people.

I care about the dog/breed.


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## meggels

It seems like you are completely closed off to anyone else's thoughts on this Emily.

Just think about if you were on the other end, and someone decided that you didn't love one of your dogs enough because of something so small and in the grand scheme of things, unimportant, as what collar they put on the dog. You can make any judgement you want but don't expect to change people's minds or help them, it just comes across as very closed minded.


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## Sprocket

meggels said:


> It seems like you are completely closed off to anyone else's thoughts on this Emily.
> 
> Just think about if you were on the other end, and someone decided that you didn't love one of your dogs enough because of something so small and in the grand scheme of things, unimportant, as what collar they put on the dog. You can make any judgement you want but don't expect to change people's minds or help them, it just comes across as very closed minded.



Maybe I am.

I am allowed to be.


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## meggels

Maybe this threadshould just be locked


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## Sprocket

meggels said:


> Maybe this threadshould just be locked


I requested that a few hours ago.

Thank you for your concern.


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## mischiefgrrl

I think Sprocket's concern was about having a collar to fit a stereotype being something that encouraged those who are close-minded. 

I think it's unfair to come into threads the way you have been lately and changing the topic to insult the OP.


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## rannmiller

OK everyone per the OP's request, this thread is being closed.


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