# She hates heart.



## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

Chesney has officially decided that she wants nothing to do with heart of any kind. I've done tough love, and even after 5 days of refusing it, she won't eat it, soooo we've resorted to force feeding it. 
ANyone else having this issue with Heart? None of the tricks I used to get Grissom to eat liver are working. She also hates beef. Go figure. I feel like heart is too important to jsut cut from her diet, but I'd rather not have to force feed her once a week for the rest of her life, either.


----------



## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

We have come to terms with force feeding our dogs the necessities. Its gotten much easier lately like they just put up with it because they know they will have to.

Have you tried searing it a bit or seasoning it or feeding it frozen?


----------



## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

danemama08 said:


> We have come to terms with force feeding our dogs the necessities. Its gotten much easier lately like they just put up with it because they know they will have to.
> 
> Have you tried searing it a bit or seasoning it or feeding it frozen?


I've tried garllic powder, fresh bits of garlic shoved in, searing it, searing i in butter, and feeding it partly frozen. She's not having it. 
I force fed it today for the third time, and she doesn't seem to mind it anymore. I cut it in chunks, and stick them down her throat, and she just sits there and takes it. She doesn't struggle at all. 
I guess it's not too big of a deal, just an annoyance really. She was terrified the first two times, but right after i posted this thread, I went and fed her, and she seemed more annoyed than anything, but not scared.


----------



## g00dgirl (Nov 18, 2009)

Have you tried feeding in close proximity to another dog, one that she would protect her food from? Perhaps the threat of having it taken away will get her to eat it more readily. I didn't realize heart was such a necessity that it should be force fed.


----------



## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

g00dgirl said:


> Have you tried feeding in close proximity to another dog, one that she would protect her food from? Perhaps the threat of having it taken away will get her to eat it more readily. I didn't realize heart was such a necessity that it should be force fed.


I did. This actually is what got Annie to eat liver. 
Unfortunately, it resulted in Chesney running away, while annie gladly took a second helping of heart for herself. lol.


----------



## xxshaelxx (Mar 8, 2010)

CorgiPaws said:


> I did. This actually is what got Annie to eat liver.
> Unfortunately, it resulted in Chesney running away, while annie gladly took a second helping of heart for herself. lol.


Lucky Annie! haha.

I'm curious as well, is heart a really important part of their diets?


----------



## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

xxshaelxx said:


> Lucky Annie! haha.
> 
> I'm curious as well, is heart a really important part of their diets?


Heart is not a requirement but it's very nutritious and about the cheapest part of the cow you can feed. My dogs and cats love it. To the people having trouble getting their dogs to eat it: Have you chopped it up into small cubes to feed it? I cut it up into cubes small enought to be swallowed. In my case, thats a little smaller than my fist. My dogs don't even chew it. They put it in their mouth and down it goes.


----------



## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

RawFedDogs said:


> Heart is not a requirement but it's very nutritious and about the cheapest part of the cow you can feed. My dogs and cats love it. To the people having trouble getting their dogs to eat it: Have you chopped it up into small cubes to feed it? I cut it up into cubes small enought to be swallowed. In my case, thats a little smaller than my fist. My dogs don't even chew it. They put it in their mouth and down it goes.


The first time I fed it, she tried to chew it after about three days of refusing it, and appeared to have a hard time with it. (She is losing her puppy teeth if that matters) so I cubed it, and then she'd take one cube (definately small enough to swallow) and chew it around a little, spit it out, and back away. 
After five days of no food, I force fed it, which seemed to scare her a little, but as puppies do, she was over it in about five seconds. 

The second time I fed it, I tried stuffing little bits of raw garlic into it. No interest. I also tried garlic powder. No interest. I also tried searing it in a little butter. Nadda. 
So, I force fed it. She wasn't happy. 

This time I force fed it pretty matter-of-factly: no coaxing, no nothing. She didn't seem phased by it at all this time. Hopefully she'll take to eating it eventually, but until then I guess I'll just stick it in her throat since it didn't seem to bother her this time. I jsut finished off with a treat, and she was happy.


----------



## JayJayisme (Aug 2, 2009)

Not looking for an argument, but an understanding. Like RFD said, heart is nutritionally considered muscle meat and is not essential if replaced with other muscle meats. So why force-feed it? 

Liver and organ meat I can understand, but heart?


----------



## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

JayJayisme said:


> Not looking for an argument, but an understanding. Like RFD said, heart is nutritionally considered muscle meat and is not essential if replaced with other muscle meats. So why force-feed it?
> 
> Liver and organ meat I can understand, but heart?


I was under the impression it was more important. 

Oh well, no heart for her then.


----------



## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

I'm not sure but I think some people feed heart in place of beef because of the price, I could be wrong but heart is less expensive and very nutritious so maybe thats why.


----------



## Khan (Jan 17, 2010)

I know this is an old thread; but I have a question about heart. My aunt and uncle raise Angus, and after my visit, they sent me home with 3 or 4 frozen hearts. How much should I give at a time, and how often?


----------



## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Khan said:


> I know this is an old thread; but I have a question about heart. My aunt and uncle raise Angus, and after my visit, they sent me home with 3 or 4 frozen hearts. How much should I give at a time, and how often?


I would start out small. Heart is a very rich meat and can cause digestive upset just like organs. So only give a small amount in the beginning and work up a tolerance for adding more in. We give beef heart probably once a week or so, enough for an entire meals worth. But like I said start small and work up to more.


----------



## bdb5853 (May 21, 2010)

One thing that worked for my reluctant dog was to cut the heart into strips and then throw it on the BBQ grill. Sear for just a minute on each side (still raw in the middle). He eats it every time now. Must be something about that smoky BBQ flavor? 

I wouldn't force feed it. The only part of a raw diet that is non-negotiable is the organs. Heart is great, but its not a necessity.


----------



## Khan (Jan 17, 2010)

danemama08 said:


> I would start out small. Heart is a very rich meat and can cause digestive upset just like organs. So only give a small amount in the beginning and work up a tolerance for adding more in. We give beef heart probably once a week or so, enough for an entire meals worth. But like I said start small and work up to more.


That's good to know, and kinda what I've been afraid of. We have only been feeding raw for a relatively short time, 4 months, and we see digestive issues any time we make changes. Would I be OK to just add a little to his regular feeding, rather than trying to feed as a stand alone? or would that be more troublesome for his system?


----------



## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Khan said:


> That's good to know, and kinda what I've been afraid of. We have only been feeding raw for a relatively short time, 4 months, and we see digestive issues any time we make changes. Would I be OK to just add a little to his regular feeding, rather than trying to feed as a stand alone? or would that be more troublesome for his system?


That is exactly what I suggest you do. Add it in slowly over time *with* a protein that you know your dog can handle. Something like a heavy bone in chicken meal.


----------



## RCTRIPLEFRESH5 (Feb 11, 2010)

CorgiPaws said:


> Chesney has officially decided that she wants nothing to do with heart of any kind. I've done tough love, *and even after 5 days of refusing it,* she won't eat it, soooo we've resorted to force feeding it.
> ANyone else having this issue with Heart? None of the tricks I used to get Grissom to eat liver are working. She also hates beef. Go figure. I feel like heart is too important to jsut cut from her diet, but I'd rather not have to force feed her once a week for the rest of her life, either.


why would she eat it after refusing for 5 days? is that all that was offered? did she go hungry for 5 days? id think shes got in her mind that shes allowed to refuse it, and shes seeing its ok.

anyway just curious what makes heart so important?


----------



## Ania's Mommy (Feb 8, 2009)

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> why would she eat it after refusing for 5 days? is that all that was offered? did she go hungry for 5 days? id think shes got in her mind that shes allowed to refuse it, and shes seeing its ok.
> 
> anyway just curious what makes heart so important?


Corgi was using the "tough-love" method. THis is when you offer the dog the subject food and nothing else. You put the food down for them to eat, and leave it for 15 minutes. If they don't eat it in that time, you would pick the food up and put it away. You do not offer the dog any other food (or treats) until the next meal time, where you would offer the subject food again.

Dogs will not typically starve themselves. Usually, within a couple days, they will eat it.

People use this method in order to get their dogs to eat what THEY want them to eat. Most "picky eaters" are created by pet owners who relate canine hunger to human hunger. Most dogs can safely go several days without a meal. 

As far as the importance of heart? It's the cheapest readily available part of the cow! :biggrin: It is ideal to have a variety of protein sources in a dog's diet. But most parts of the cow tend to be on the pricey side. So heart is a great option.


----------



## jdatwood (Apr 13, 2009)

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> why would she eat it after refusing for 5 days? is that all that was offered? did she go hungry for 5 days? id think shes got in her mind that shes allowed to refuse it, and shes seeing its ok.


That's the "tough love" method used to introduce new protein sources. On a rare occasion you'll run into a meat that dogs just refuse to eat regardless of how hungry they are. 

After 5 days 2 of our 4 still refused to eat whole raw fish (they now get canned fish instead that they're happy to eat)

It's certainly NOT her thinking she can refuse it. Sometimes dogs just don't like certain meats even if they're starving...


----------



## xxshaelxx (Mar 8, 2010)

jdatwood said:


> After 5 days 2 of our 4 still refused to eat whole raw fish (they now get canned fish instead that they're happy to eat


I've been having issues with Amaya not wanting to eat whole, raw fish, too. Doing the tough love method, she refused to eat for two days. It's not that she doesn't like it, she just doesn't like the work involved in it. So today, I thought I'd try to cut it up, and she ate all of the pieces that were mouth-sized, chewed at a piece that was twice as big as mouth sized, and wouldn't touch the head. I'm saving those flipping heads for a day when I have enough, and I'm going to tough love her into eating them.

Also, I had a question. If she refuses to eat fish for several days, but finally eats it, would it be okay to feed her fish again?

I finally got her to finish one fish, after about three days of struggling with her, and then gave her turkey and chicken for her next two meals, but then went back to fish, and she turned her nose up to it, thinking that she'd get her chicken/turkey again if she waited it out.


----------



## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Then I would continue doing tough love with her until she eats it again. Since she ate it before she will most likely eat it again. Don't let her be picky and not eat it just because
she has it figured out that if she doesn't eat it she will get something else.

I would still cut it up for her but them slowly start giving her bigger and bigger pieces that she will actually eat, eventually getting to the point where she will gladly eat a whole raw fish.


----------



## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

i thought the heart was more nutritious than other parts of the cow....

colour me confused


----------



## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

magicre said:


> i thought the heart was more nutritious than other parts of the cow....
> 
> colour me confused


It definitely is more nutritious than all the other muscle meats of the cow. It has different nutrition composition than regular skeletal muscle because of it's function in the cow. Here is a link to a study, granted it's very old but the data is there:

http://www.jbc.org/content/71/2/429.full.pdf


----------



## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

danemama08 said:


> It definitely is more nutritious than all the other muscle meats of the cow. It has different nutrition composition than regular skeletal muscle because of it's function in the cow. Here is a link to a study, granted it's very old but the data is there:
> 
> http://www.jbc.org/content/71/2/429.full.pdf


thanks for the link...

across the boards i hear the same thing --- dogs not preferring heart....some sighing and eating it...some having to have it force fed..

why don't dogs care for heart? does it make them work too hard? :biggrin:


----------



## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Heart is a muscle meat but is a lot like an organ. Body system wise, the heart is an organ but nutritionally it's more considered a muscle meat. I guess you could say that heart is the stepping stone between organ meat and skeletal muscle meat. Because heart is so rich, like an organ, some dogs don't like it. Three out of four of our dogs won't voluntarily eat organs but they will all eat heart gladly. While heart is very nutritious it's not something that is required so if your dogs won't eat it voluntarily there is no real reason to force feed unless you want to.


----------



## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

The store I buy my heart at will cut it for me. While it's still frozen in a big chunk (I buy it in bulk), they run it through their band saw and cut it into 2" to 3" cubes. Thats the way I feed it to my dogs. They love it. I have to cut the cubes smaller for the cats.

Have you tried to cut it into chunks and feed it that way?


----------



## xxshaelxx (Mar 8, 2010)

danemama08 said:


> Then I would continue doing tough love with her until she eats it again. Since she ate it before she will most likely eat it again. Don't let her be picky and not eat it just because
> she has it figured out that if she doesn't eat it she will get something else.
> 
> I would still cut it up for her but them slowly start giving her bigger and bigger pieces that she will actually eat, eventually getting to the point where she will gladly eat a whole raw fish.


Yeah, that's what I've been doing, but is it okay to feed it back to back, since she's not eating that much of it at each mealtime. Would it be bad to not give her chicken/turkey in between each fish?


----------



## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Is this a whole fish? Bone in? If so it would be perfectly fine to feed it to her two days in a row, or a few more days in a row as well. Maybe feed her a bit of fish and then "reward" her with a small piece of chicken or something?


----------



## xxshaelxx (Mar 8, 2010)

Well, we're going on day three with this one fish. She didn't touch it day one, and yesterday I cut it up and she ate about half of it yesterday morning, and a quarter yesterday night. She still has the head and a bigger chunk left. She ate one head that was leftover from the first fish I fed her, too. Once she finishes this fish, do I give her chicken as the reward?

It's actually not hard to cut up the fish. I don't mind doing it. It's just a pain in the arse that she doesn't want to do the work to eat the fish.


----------



## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

I might say to keep her eating the fish for now and not "rewarding" with chicken, considering she is leery of it even still. I wouldn't do a reward until she happily eats fish, even if you have to cut it up still. Its not going to hurt her to be on just fish, several people here have switched their dogs to raw on nothing but fish for the fist step of the transition.

What kind of fish are you offering?


----------



## xxshaelxx (Mar 8, 2010)

It's whole tilapia, gutted.


----------



## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

i edited this post out. information is unproven and perhaps just urban legend.

sorry about that. my bad.


----------



## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Popular Fish, Tilapia, Contains Potentially Dangerous Fatty Acid Combination

Here's an article about the "conspiracy" behind feeding/eating tilapia (and catfish). I don't really put much weight on this and still feed/eat it.


----------



## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

danemama08 said:


> Popular Fish, Tilapia, Contains Potentially Dangerous Fatty Acid Combination
> 
> Here's an article about the "conspiracy" behind feeding/eating tilapia (and catfish). I don't really put much weight on this and still feed/eat it.


there is a debate going on in another forum about a company who sells dehydrated food and admits to using products from china, which then led to a discussion about fish from china, thailand and the phillipines.

i have read plenty of articles attesting to the toxicity of china's fishing waters....but the statement about thailand and the phillipines was not backed up by anything.....and i have yet to find anything that supports that tilapia from thailand or the phillipines would not be okay to feed.

which is why i edited out my post....

so now, the tilapia i bought from thailand seems just dandy to feed them.


----------



## harrkim120 (Feb 2, 2010)

You should buy some good ol' Florida tilapia. :biggrin:


----------

