# here's my rant and rave.



## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

since i'm merely talking to myself, i do not expect any answers, although all are welcome.

i fed kibble for a longer period of time than i've fed raw.

i remember some pretty heated discussions when the poster stated he/she fed said dog ol' roy or alpo or pedigree because they were killing their dog, their dog was living in spite of them, on and on.

now it's a hostile environment for the low cost kibble feeders and the high cost kibble feeders...there's a camp just for grain and no grain believers...

and then there are the raw feeders....

we have whole prey, prey raw model, barf, and now hybrid.

why can't we all just get along?

i've never been more uncomfortable than i am when i venture an opinion in any other section than in the raw section..i can ask any stupid question i want...i can respectfully disagree, and i can be opinionated, as long as i don't call anyone an ass....

but venture over to kibble or home cooked? my G'd....it's as if i've invaded turf....

i fed kibble....i fed it for many generations of dogs....

food and nutrition constantly change in theory and in practicality...it stands to reason that major companies are hearing voices in their marketing research that says...grain bad...no grain good....protein good....corn bad...

they are feeding what the people want machine..

but how many people know, really know the effect of blueberries on a dog....other than it is an anti oxidant...

how many people dissect each ingredient, and painstakingly look them up....only to find the formula changed and we have to start over....

the facts are out there.....each food has its nutrition....no one in their right mind thinks dogs need dairy once they are weaned....yet people are feeding yoghurt and cottage cheese and parmesan cheese....hell, people are the only mammal in the world who continues to drink milk after weaning and not even their mothers' milk.....

dogs should never have sugar....hell, humans should keep their sugar content down. periodontal disease is on the rise for dogs, as is diabetes....for humans, too....there's a reason for that....

processed food IS bad for everyone, dogs and chickens and humans and cows...we have a nation of obese humans and dogs because of processed foods and starches that were only meant to be eaten during famine and depression....

when i see my black dog's teeth turn white within weeks....
when i see her act half of her age
when i see her enthusiastic about eating
when i objectively see the changes from kibble to raw...how do i not want to shout it to the world.....

we are so fortunate as to live in a world where dogs are finally getting some respect.....maybe not enough, but some...there are groups out there who really really want the best, who study dogs and nutrition.....

why, when asked...do i still hear...can't afford it...don't have time...ugh, my dog will die if i give it a bone.....too much time....too much effort...

is that why so many kids eat mc donald's....are we so tired that we can't spare 30 minutes in the kitchen for our loved ones?

it takes most of us less than 5 minutes to prepare, feed and clean up....is that too much to ask? 

and i keep hearing the regurgitation from generations ago....my grandma fed pedigree and it was good enough for her dog...well, your grandma didn't have the benefit of a small pox vaccine.....either...things change...science changes....

we get closer and closer for species specific diet....yet, i hear the same denial over and over again..and then defensiveness....and then i'm accused of being closed minded.

i KNOW what's in kibble...do YOU know what raw is about? except for rumour and innuendo?

i put this in general discussion on purpose, so as not to offend anyone...

if you don't want to read it, don't...but if i don't get this out...i'm going to scream.

the favour i will do y'all is never post in canned and kibble again...keep talking about changing foods and corporate takeovers and periodontal disease and diabetes and dull coats and allergies and picky eaters and sensitive stomachs and then you tell me who is closed minded...

my dogs don't itch. have white teeth. are brighter than bright...their formula for eating is controlled by me and MY research....no diabetes....no picky eater and certainly not a sensitive stomach.


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## luvMyBRT (Mar 8, 2010)

Once again...very insightful post. 
After re-reading it, I do pick up on some strong points that could be taken the wrong way...
I do value your support and help, so don't take this the wrong way. :smile:
I am just as passionate about raw now...just like you. :smile:


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

magicre said:


> i remember some pretty heated discussions when the poster stated he/she fed said dog ol' roy or alpo or pedigree because they were killing their dog, their dog was living in spite of them, on and on.
> 
> now it's a hostile environment for the low cost kibble feeders and the high cost kibble feeders...there's a camp just for grain and no grain believers...


I think that this thread was an attempt to turn the tables on a recent thread. I can't think of a single person who has come feeding these foods, and left feeding these foods. 
Nor have I picked up on the "hostile environment"





magicre said:


> and then there are the raw feeders....
> 
> we have whole prey, prey raw model, barf, and now hybrid.
> 
> why can't we all just get along?


We can. But.... passive aggressive jabs aren't going to get us very far. 

I find this statement rather controdictory to a statement made in the other thread by yourself. 


magicre said:


> i've never been more uncomfortable than i am when i venture an opinion in any other section than in the raw section.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





magicre said:


> but venture over to kibble or home cooked? my G'd....it's as if i've invaded turf....


1. we don't have a home cooked section. 
2. It's rather common knowledge who the raw feeders are and aren't. I will hand it to you that the SLIGHTEST hint to raw gets jumped on like a freaking steak in a piranha tank... but I've seen *almost* every raw feeder give well-taken advice in that section. 
The key is keeping raw out of it. 
And I say this as a person who undoubtedly believes whole heartedly that PMR is the BEST, but kibble feeders want kibble answers. Period. 




magicre said:


> ...no one in their right mind thinks dogs need dairy once they are weaned....yet people are feeding yoghurt and cottage cheese and parmesan cheese....hell, people are the only mammal in the world who continues to drink milk after weaning and not even their mothers' milk.....


And you say this KNOWING that members on here include these things in their dog's diet. 
Now, Do I think they belong in a dogs diet? No. I certainly do not. 
BUT, does that give you or I any right to make very rude comments like this? No, it certainly does not. "No one in their right mind"
Heaven forbid someone believes differently than you do. 
You're right: the "facts" are out there. The problem is there are "studies" proving AND disproving every side of every ingredient. You believe one theory, they believe another. Big flipping deal.
And I say this as someone who AGREES with what you're saying, but can't appreciate this post in the slightest.




magicre said:


> processed food IS bad for everyone, dogs and chickens and humans and cows...we have a nation of obese humans and dogs because of processed foods and starches that were only meant to be eaten during famine and depression....


"Why can't we get along? You're killing your dogs feeding kibble!"
I think you answered your own question.
And I'd like to add that our nation being obese has just as much to do with indulgence and bad parenting as it does big bad processed food. The general public seems to have forgotten the meaning of "moderation."




magicre said:


> when i see my black dog's teeth turn white within weeks....
> when i see her act half of her age
> when i see her enthusiastic about eating
> when i objectively see the changes from kibble to raw...how do i not want to shout it to the world.....


Shouting it to the world is absolutely fine. Just try not to do it in such a passive aggressive manner, mmk?
AGAIN, I'm too a firm believer in PMR. :wink:
Look at it this way: member comes to the forum feeding, say, Pedigree. We can approach it one of two ways. 
1. Be total jackasses, shove raw down their throats, tell them they're killing their dogs with starches, and have them totally turned off and leave, still feeding the same crap food, because we apparently are unable to RESPECT other's limitations. 
OR
2. Bite our tongues, and attempt to help the new member make the best decision possible for their dog, within their comfort zone, and maybe, just MAYBE see the dog be put on Orijen, or perhaps even just Canidae, still a HUGE step up. 
So, while you're SO passionate about nutrition and helping pet owners improve their dog's diet... ask yourself WHICH approach will in fact achieve this goal. :wink:




magicre said:


> i KNOW what's in kibble...do YOU know what raw is about? except for rumour and innuendo?


It is VERY safe to say that there are MANY misconceptions about raw. 
bacteria. 
bones. 
cost. 
It's silly, and I do wish that more people would at least consider raw enough to put forth the effort to LEARN the TRUTH about it... i think many many dogs stand to benefit from it, if their people would just LEARN. 
BUT, again, ask yourself which approach benefits the dog. 




magicre said:


> i put this in general discussion on purpose, so as not to offend anyone...


Sometimes, it's more about what you SAY than where you say it.






magicre said:


> if you don't want to read it, don't...but if i don't get this out...i'm going to scream.


OH! whew. I'm really glad you didn't have to scream. That would have been tragic!!!!
Unfortunately, you have successfully made me want to scream. 
I honestly, for the first time, have to agree with all the kibble feeders on this one. SOME raw feeders are INCREDIBLY passive aggressive in their attempts to make peace. 
Again, I say this as someone who ENTIRELY believes in PMR, and DOES agree 100% with every "point" you've attempted to make about the benefits of raw vs. the risks of kibble.... but even so, I'm turned off. 



magicre said:


> the favour i will do y'all is never post in canned and kibble again...keep talking about changing foods and corporate takeovers and periodontal disease and diabetes and dull coats and allergies and picky eaters and sensitive stomachs and then you tell me who is closed minded...
> 
> my dogs don't itch. have white teeth. are brighter than bright...their formula for eating is controlled by me and MY research....no diabetes....no picky eater and certainly not a sensitive stomach.


If every post would be this passive aggressive, then it absolutely is a favor. 
I hate to think of how many people honestly wanting to do better for their dogs have been turned off and left before even introducing themselves to this forum, because of crap like this. I hate to think of those ol' roy and pedigree eating dogs who MAY be on Orijen, EVO, TOTW, or Canidae right now had they not have been so degraded here. 
Are they oversensitive? Probably. But still. 




magicre said:


> my dogs don't itch. have white teeth. are brighter than bright.......no diabetes....no picky eater and certainly not a sensitive stomach.


Neat. Mine too. 





I feel the need to add that I entirely believe in raw. I do think that kibble is far inferior. I DO think that some valid points have been made. I DO think that a lot of kibble feeders are incredibly quick to jump on the slightest hint of raw in the kibble section, and cry about it. I DO think that the raw section tends to be more inviting, but that may be because of how long we've stuck around. 
I do not, however, think that making a thread starting off with "why can't we get along?" and then moving on to attack every form of feeding that is not PMR is any step in the right direction. 
I hope that any newbies lurking will recognize that this is NOT how all the raw feeders here are. Not at all. :frown:


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## moon (Jul 15, 2010)

Excellent points magicre! 

The only question I have is the part about humans being the only mammals who drink milk after weaned. In my experience - I've been farming my whole life (more than 50 years) and had many cows and bulls who will steal milk from other cows. They will sneak up behind while the calf is drinking and nurse from behind. I've seen cows who actually let the others nurse - which is bad for the calves who then get shorted! It is such a problem that they make a special halter for cows with pointy studs that will stick the other cow's udder so she won't let them nurse! And given the chance, goats and sheep will do the same. Perhaps that's really our fault and it doesn't happen in the wild - I don't know.

I know if I spill milk on the floor, every mammal I have will be there to lap it up. But I have no idea if this would happen in the wild either... Maybe we've really screwed up all the animals. I don't know. 

I don't give my dogs and cats milk (except by accident) because I know it's nature made to put 500lbs on a calf in less than a year!

I've seen coyotes eating blueberries - but again, I have no idea why they do.


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

You won't see a horse lapping up milk after being weaned! Oh maybe a yearling but definitely not a grown adult.


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## moon (Jul 15, 2010)

Well there you go - horses are more dignified. lol!


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Re and Linsey both have awesome things to say. I think the thing we need to keep in mind is that you can attract more bees with honey than vinegar. How you deliver your message can be just as important if not more important that the content of that message. I know I don't always say things perfectly and could say things in a better way, but I do my best.


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

I think for someone like me who usually is doing posting before going to work and is not as good with electronic equipment as others on here, I try to say things as straight forward as possible and to some it might come off as snipy but that is not the intent, its just user error!


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## eternalstudent (Jul 22, 2010)

being essentially a newb, to both dogs and raw feeding I have found this form to be one of the least aggressive forums out there.

However, since I started on raw I have felt (out-with this site) more or less on a one man crusade. People will tell me how good the pup looks and ask what she is fed, then I tell them I feed raw and they go off the whole subject and look at me like I have two heads. The best response I have got was that they were going to wait and see how she turns out, then they might consider it. 

As raw feeders we will always fight a losing battle against the majority of vets and the plethora of adverts from dog food companies, I am still waiting to have to conversation with my vet as he said "don't feed raw until she is 3 years old, then you won't be able to ruin her development" and I would say my vet is pretty good.

Until people can get over the adverts, for kibble designed for speedy ingestion (royal cannin) so they can feed there dogs in less than 2-3 minutes (my dogs last timed meal). Dental sicks and tooth paste for dogs to keep them healthy, then they will simply not feed raw.

But the important thing is always the dog, if it is fed regularly and treated well, then that beats a large number of unluckier ones. And there is worse then pegigree chum to be feeding you dog!!


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

moon said:


> Excellent points magicre!
> 
> The only question I have is the part about humans being the only mammals who drink milk after weaned. In my experience - I've been farming my whole life (more than 50 years) and had many cows and bulls who will steal milk from other cows. They will sneak up behind while the calf is drinking and nurse from behind. I've seen cows who actually let the others nurse - which is bad for the calves who then get shorted! It is such a problem that they make a special halter for cows with pointy studs that will stick the other cow's udder so she won't let them nurse! And given the chance, goats and sheep will do the same. Perhaps that's really our fault and it doesn't happen in the wild - I don't know.
> 
> ...


from my studies, and i could be wrong, mammals are creatures of opportunity.....add to that, milk has sugar in it.....to make it more attractive to the species.

i hear you say that cows take milk from each other....my personal opinion is that animals are creatures of opportunity.....but cows and bulls are from the same family....humans aren't...right?

and i think that blueberries have a scent that attracts and a taste that is sweet....

what i said is that humans are the only ones that don't wean. what i probably should have added is that not only don't we wean fully, we drink the milk from another species.

i love snickers..doesn't mean they are good for me..but they smell good, taste good...

my dogs love carrots and blueberries and bubba likes celery....is it his nature to need it? i don't think so....but it has a smell and a taste....


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

i titled this 'my rant and rave'.

my definition of a rant and rave is talking angrily to oneself, sans diplomacy or tact.

it is not meant to be read or commented on...it's a tirade....a temper tantrum, if you will.

my post was not in response to the thread you started that degraded as usual into the raw vs. kibble...but, linsey, think what you like. 

my post is from across many boards....and the target i feel is on my back because i feed raw....and if i venture into a discussion involving kibble, suddenly i'm trying to convert or i'm condescending....or 'insert not nice word here'. 

i watched a heart felt post from a woman who would rather feed a certain way....admit that she went back to kibble and stated her reasons why....my response was you gotta do what you gotta do...no guilt.

after that, i went to watch television, only to come back to see the thread, as often happens.....degrade into raw vs. kibble and shannon talking about her hybrid method of feeding....and when asked about it, got defensive and snarky...

there's a reason i ask why...and that's because i want to know.....i analyse...i research..and if cottage cheese does a dog good, i want to know about it....

when i ventured into dog food recipes (sorry, i thought the title of the section was home made food)....i had one occasion where the poster did not want to tell me what she fed her dog because she felt she'd be berated for it....i don't remember now who it was.....and i thought.....has it come to this?

and why has it come to this?

and then i got mad..and i'm still angry.....truth be told, i want everyone to experience the epiphany that i did....i don't want kids to be fed mc donalds and television because we are the generation of convenience and too much work and too much stress....i want them to eat nutritious foods because 70% of all americans are fat. dogs are catching up. i want all dogs to eat raw and experience the joy i feel watching them become healthier and healthier.

i don't want to hear that 'exercise' is letting the dog out and then wondering why fido weighs too much....

i don't want to hear about people regurgitating the marketing from corporations....without researching it first...

i dealt with this mentality enough when i practised medicine...as if the doctor was a god and the patient just did what he or she was told....that mentality can get a patient dead and a good doctor sued....because the patient takes no responsibility for their own health.

well, that's how i feel about dog owners..in an age where there are kibble companies coming out with ingredients the likes we've never seen before...i see a shift in marketing toward the holistic feeding of dogs...with organic buzz words....

and people are buying it hook, line and sinker.....again.

in an ideal world, this would not happen. but it's not an ideal world, so i'm throwing a non productive tantrum.

and every forum i go to, the health chat section is filled with my dog has allergies, my dog is picky, my dog has dull hair, my dog's hair is falling out, my dog this, my dog that.

and when i'm asked by people why my dogs look and act the way they do, i tell them...and mostly what i hear is ugh....better watch out, you're going to kill them..my vet says..be careful of that salmonella....not everyone can feed raw because of that....

when delta society bans raw fed dogs....because of the salmonella and kibble recalls for salmonella are occurring more and more frequently...

people should feed what they want...but defending meal? why? it is what it is....

i put it into general discussion for a reason....and i titled it rant and rave for a reason. i invited no comments, didn't expect any...but any and all are welcome....because this is a non productive thread.

and, eternal student..you're right. this is the least aggressive board i've seen....although right now, i'm not inclined to think that being on any board is enlightening....

with all the sensitive feelings and defensiveness, it's real hard to get an opinion across...

as to how i say things? and what i say? if no one likes it, don't read it....i don't know how to talk any other way..i lack natalie's tact.....i'm not diplomatic....

the beauty, however, of any board, is that people do not have to respond...or even leave....they can choose to move on to the next post.....

if no one likes what i say or wants to hear it....then go to another thread. there are plenty of them.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

I'm on board with you 100% Re, I really am. I applaud you for speaking your mind and letting it out. I think you have great thoughts and convey them in a respectful manner, most of the time. Which is ok because people are not perfect. I don't try to be. I really do see that you have the best intentions at heart...

My only worry is that people who see these posts may get turned off especially if they don't know your story. Yes, forums like this are not for the weak spirit. But that isn't to say that we must stay as respectful as possible. I'm not saying in the least that your posts were outwardly disrespectful but people can misread your message and take it as such. Then they turn away and don't want to listen to what you have to say. Just keep that in mind. You are more than welcome to speak your mind here :biggrin:


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

thanks, natalie....it's been my experience that people get turned off no matter what.

there will always be someone who misinterprets or doesn't share a commonality of language or has a different education than i had and have....not lesser, just different...maybe lesser...but definitely different and maybe even more so....certainly there are people here who studied all kinds of things, formally and informally ...and let's not forget life experience that should teach us things and often does and doesn't.

no one needs to know my story and no one needs to listen to what i have to say.

if i have to preamble every thread with ' listen, folks, i used to be a kibble feeder, lost four dogs in less than two years and then put my dogs on raw...'.....here's what i have to say....then let's require everyone to have a signature that tells everyone else what camp they belong to and then no one gets surprised...

or i can add to my sig:

I AM A RAW FEEDER, of the prey model raw persuasion, because even THAT has to be specified.

and then anyone who feeds differently can ignore me...

i don't have a story. i'm like many others who tried to ignore the elephant in the room..and finally, one day, could no longer do so....

and now i feed raw.

that's my story.

i worry, too, about the people who lurk...which is why, when you were asking shannon why she feeds what she feeds...the evasiveness concerned me....here she is telling people what she feeds, stands by it which i admire....but for those of us who do research, won't say why....except some vague reference to her research....

i don't want to know why because i want to knock it, unless it's knockable....i want to know why because maybe it's a new idea i hadn't thought of.....

on the other hand...i was told i was rude and passive aggressive...should i take to the couch, hand on forehead?


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Well it's impossible not offend anyone or please everyone. So as long as you don't name call, bash anyone/anything or use profane language I'm happy :wink: :tongue:


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## chowder (Sep 7, 2008)

You know, perhaps the problem is that we have two sharply defined topics ....Kibble and Raw. Other forums have sections that encompass all kinds of ways people feed their dogs. They even have 'stickys' where people post their daily menu for their dog. 

Maybe the raw could be broadened to be something like " Raw / Homemade / B.A.R.F.

Then all kinds of people could jump in and chat with us. Just a thought


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

chowder said:


> You know, perhaps the problem is that we have two sharply defined topics ....Kibble and Raw. Other forums have sections that encompass all kinds of ways people feed their dogs. They even have 'stickys' where people post their daily menu for their dog.
> 
> Maybe the raw could be broadened to be something like " Raw / Homemade / B.A.R.F.
> 
> Then all kinds of people could jump in and chat with us. Just a thought


i was just on another forum and someone was posting about symptoms their dog was having and blood work came back with the dog having pancreatitis...the poster was talking about going raw, having read some articles about raw being of benefit.....

another poster came in to tell the OP that pancreatitis is very dangerous and raw is a high fat diet and the dog needs to stay on low fat low protein for the rest of its life...and the OP accepted it. just like that.

their food forum is mixed....before any raw feeders posted to the OP, the OP just blindly accepted what was said about raw and pancreatitis...

and that was that.

i'm not trying to be negative, chowder....it is what it is....i fed kibble. i get it. certainly, i fed it longer than i've fed raw...

i've also visited a processing plant....and gave up processed foods because of it. i can't even imagine visiting a dog food plant....i'd beat myself up more because i didn't see the light sooner....course, that's in the past...and now my dogs are doing great....

would that we could just have debates....different opinions....a little thicker skin...a little less defensiveness...from all sides.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Oh I totally wish everyone had thicker skin, but everyone is different...just a fact of life ya know? If everyone was the same life would be pretty darn boring. What I will say is that people who do have thicker skin typically stick around on Internet forums longer than those who don't. Not just this forum but EVERY forum out there.


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

Magicre- I feel the need to point out that I really wholeheartedly do agree with you. I do. I agree with the passion for raw, the dangers of kibble, the flaws in society and the "convenience" mentality. 

BUT.

We just went on for fifteen pages, arguing that raw feeders AREN'T judgmental, AREN'T forceful, AREN'T degrading to kibblers... and then a thread like this entirely undoes all of that, and put raw feeders back on the chopping block. That's why it was so disappointing to me. Proved every little bit of complaints absolutely valid. It's a shame, too. And done in such a passive aggressive manner. "Why can't we get along... but NO ONE IN THEIR RIGHT MIND...." It was a cheap jab, and that I can not respect in the slightest. 

If it were TRULY a rant to yourself, you' have kept it to yourself. but you didn't. You posted it on a public forum, knowing darn well you'd get responses. Claiming otherwise is just silly.:tongue:

I think that you have a lot to offer this board. I am glad you're here. But please, consider how you approach things, and how you will be received. If you actually want to help owners and their dogs, then perhaps you'll rethink your aggressive approach.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

CorgiPaws said:


> Magicre- I feel the need to point out that I really wholeheartedly do agree with you. I do. I agree with the passion for raw, the dangers of kibble, the flaws in society and the "convenience" mentality.
> 
> BUT.
> 
> ...


my aggressive approach...


i was called rude, passive aggressive, aggressive and taking cheap jabs.

i posted this on a public forum because it's a public forum and i can post this.

if people don't want to read it, then fine. don't read it. don't respond.

when you started your thread, i could feel the regret that you had to make the choice you made. i was nothing but supportive. no guilt. do what you gotta do.

nine pages later, the thread had already degraded.....

my personal opinion is that people will do whatever they will do...and no matter what i say or how i say it is not going to change anyone's mind.

if someone is going to leave a forum, they will leave and find a reason to do so.

but i will never back off my stance about processed food for both humans and dogs....i will never back off my stance about dairy and humans and dogs...

never. and i will, unless i get banned, continue to state that i believe these are bad....and that no one in their right mind should ever feed processed food to their kids, loved ones, dogs...nor should people and dogs eat dairy or drink milk or have cottage cheese or parmesan cheese to make the food more enticing to dogs...and by the way, that was advice given to a newbie raw feeder whose dog was turning up its nose.

i believe what i believe because i looked it up....i've studied nutrition for years now....and if you're permitted your opinions....then i'm allowed mine....

if i state them in such a way that people don't like, then they don't have to listen, since they won't anyway.

but i didn't call you rude..nor did i call you passive aggressive nor did i say you were backhandedly knocking kibble, nor did i call you any names.

i did say that shannon got snarky...i apologise for that...


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

magicre said:


> my aggressive approach...
> i was called rude, passive aggressive, aggressive and taking cheap jabs.


This is how the post was received. I was honest. 


I will respectfully refrain from posting in this thread any longer, as I do not wish to offend anyone, nor do I want hard feelings to arise from it. 
I am glad you have a passion, I am glad you want to shout it to the world. :smile: I can only hope, for the welfare of the dogs, that not too many of them will be shortchanged because of their owners feeling unwelcome on a forum that stands to offer so much. 
Thank you for your willingness to help the newbie raw feeders, and to express your thoughts. Those are things that I can admire. :smile:


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## Jodysmom (Jan 9, 2010)

CorgiPaws said:


> Thank you for your willingness to help the newbie raw feeders, and to express your thoughts. Those are things that I can admire. :smile:


I know myself and many others have you to thank Re for helping us make the jump from kibble to raw feeding. Your posts are incredibly helpful and detailed.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

CorgiPaws said:


> This is how the post was received. I was honest.
> 
> 
> I will respectfully refrain from posting in this thread any longer, as I do not wish to offend anyone, nor do I want hard feelings to arise from it.
> ...


linsey, i could hug you.

you just made my point.

you were honest. i'm not so thin skinned as to run to the couch because i got called rude or whatever....

you were honest. no hard feelings. you can refrain or not refrain as you see fit.....

and yes, it will always be too bad when owners feel unwelcome. we never know what word or sentence will be offputting....and sometimes we do know....

on the other hand, i also believe that there are people out there who don't want to be challenged or asked questions....they want validation and when they don't get it, they get insulted or offended....

a forum is an exchange of ideas.....it's a debate....it's a learning experience....sure, sometimes tempers get hot...that's what mods are for....


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## luvMyBRT (Mar 8, 2010)

Jodysmom said:


> I know myself and many others have you to thank Re for helping us make the jump from kibble to raw feeding. Your posts are incredibly helpful and detailed.


I just wanted to say this too, again. Re, I love how passionate you are about raw...and rightly so! The changes in your dogs (mine too) are amazing. I too love to read your posts. I appreciate your support for me while I am making the transition and asking all my questions....lol. :smile:


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## wags (Jan 31, 2009)

I've been on here for quiet some time now. I have no regrets whatsoever feeding orijen as my top food, Instinct, Wellness core, I only do the top of the line foods, No regrets as I just had the two of my dogs in for their regular checkups and the vet was just thrilled with how well they were doing. My 11 1/2 year old I was told was exceptionally young for his age and would be here for quiet some time. I am here to say I am very proud of my compassion to do the best I can for my dogs! As for adding things in the food I have always told everyone I do put wet food in the evening meal which I will continue to do! I am a dog lover very concerned on what I feed and I try to do the best with what I have! Not everyone is ashamed of what they feed their dog! I certainly am not! I am very content and happy with what I am doing for the longevity of my dogs lives!


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

wags said:


> I've been on here for quiet some time now. I have no regrets whatsoever feeding orijen as my top food, Instinct, Wellness core, I only do the top of the line foods, No regrets as I just had the two of my dogs in for their regular checkups and the vet was just thrilled with how well they were doing. My 11 1/2 year old I was told was exceptionally young for his age and would be here for quiet some time. I am here to say I am very proud of my compassion to do the best I can for my dogs! As for adding things in the food I have always told everyone I do put wet food in the evening meal which I will continue to do! I am a dog lover very concerned on what I feed and I try to do the best with what I have! Not everyone is ashamed of what they feed their dog! I certainly am not! I am very content and happy with what I am doing for the longevity of my dogs lives!


as it should be. and yes, you've always stuck to your convictions, made no apologies and never got defensive.

don't be so quiet.....


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## wags (Jan 31, 2009)

magicre said:


> as it should be. and yes, you've always stuck to your convictions, made no apologies and never got defensive.
> 
> don't be so quiet.....


Ha~ love the dont be so quiet part. If only my friends and family thought I was haha! At the annula xmas party last year for my hubbys work this one woman said behind my back~ to my hubby ~your wife has the gift to gab!!!!! UGH!!!!!!!!!!!!:wink::biggrin:


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

wags said:


> Ha~ love the dont be so quiet part. If only my friends and family thought I was haha! At the annula xmas party last year for my hubbys work this one woman said behind my back~ to my hubby ~your wife has the gift to gab!!!!! UGH!!!!!!!!!!!!:wink::biggrin:


ah, the gift to gab.....i think that's awesome....that's funny....

but, seriously...i don't have to agree with your convictions...i admire that you have them and aren't afraid to stick to them....i don't live in your house...

we could go round and round and you will continue to feed what you feed and i will continue to feed what i feed...and we can still walk away from the discussion and go have lunch.


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## wags (Jan 31, 2009)

but, seriously...i don't have to agree with your convictions...i admire that you have them and aren't afraid to stick to them....i don't live in your house...

we could go round and round and you will continue to feed what you feed and i will continue to feed what i feed...and we can still walk away from the discussion and go have lunch.[/QUOTE]

This is true! We all have our reasons for what we choose and why we choose those things! I have had many open discussions on many different topics I agree to disagree and vice versa! I have been wrong tons of times and right tons of times! 'Eh life goes on! Can't get too stressed out on anything! We all have our opinions and that is what I take it all as opinions and their are a lot of well thought out opinions, which I really enjoy! I'm not here to criticize anyone's views. I look listen and learn all different types of views and find them all a worthwhile (well a lot of them) read!Never too old to learn! I'm usually the middle ground on things! Being a mom to 5 kids well you learn to respect a lot of opinions!!!!!!!!!!

Going round and round gets me dizzy LOL! As that being said gee it is time for Lunch LOL!


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## Jacksons Mom (Jun 13, 2010)

Great rant! I love to see people just getting things off their chest.  I think it's good for us. A lot of pet owners in general bother me just because they simply have NO idea. I think raw feeding is great and I promote it. I'm just not ready to make the switch yet, for reasons I've expressed on this site a few times, except the occasional pre-made raw food.



> my dogs don't itch. have white teeth. are brighter than bright...their formula for eating is controlled by me and MY research....no diabetes....no picky eater and certainly not a sensitive stomach.


My dog has none of these problems either and eats Acana kibble  Just wanted to add that.


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