# About to give up on raw!



## AdrianVall (Aug 26, 2010)

I hate this transition period.. It SUCKS!

BIG (mastiff pup) has finally developed a solid stool! Buddy (boxer) has solid stools off and on.

However, my biggest complaint is that the fact that they can NOT hold there bowel over night! The last 5 nights, someone has pooped in there crate! And they have NEVER messed in there crate until we switched to raw.

We are feeding chicken backs right now. I cut off excess skin/fat on them too.

GRRRRRRR!

Someone please comfort me. Waking up to the smell of poo at 5:30 this morning really upset me.


----------



## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

When are you feeding them? When do you take them out to potty? 

I've never heard of dogs not being able to hold their bowels on raw....


----------



## AdrianVall (Aug 26, 2010)

Buddy has had diarrhea yesterday for whatever reason..

I take them out every hour, or whenever they ask. Last night, I put them in there crate at 11:30, and took them out to do there business just before that. I feed them morning and night.

They are used to this schedule, as they have been doing it since they've lived here. I don't understand..


----------



## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

I think I remember this scenario when switching over to raw but it wasn't a matter of them going in their crate it, they would all of a sudden have turds coming out when they weren't quite ready! The problem resolved itself with time, they just had to get the kibble poop dance out of their system. I believe re also had this issue with the dogs getting her up earlier to go outside than before, so she just fed them earlier in the day and the problem was solved.


----------



## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

breathe....

this is part of transition....

when is their last meal?

how much are you feeding them? and how much do they weigh?

when is the last time they go out at night?

isn't one of them like four months old?

during transition, malia used to wake us up in the middle of the night...she HAD to go out....and cannon butt is part of transition....for certain dogs....like mine....bubba did it in the middle of the night, right in the bed...it was lovely....

he also threw up in the middle of the night....

it takes about two months for them to get used to raw.....

and now i'm going to say something that i hope you don't take offense...

part of the problem can be stemming from your own tension and worry....none of us were 100% on board with raw.....we were frightened and tense. we were afraid we were killing our dogs.....i mean, who feeds raw meat to a dog? i was taught that dog food came in a bag....

slowly but surely, we come to believe that kibble is not only not the best for our dogs, it's the absolute worst and they will live in spite of us.

that does not stop the worry and the tension which may be passing down to your dogs....they do sense a rift in the force......

so breathe....and keep feeding the chicken backs and go heavier on bone than most people may have to...because it sounds like your dogs reacted just like mine did and i'm here to tell you the first six weeks sucked.

six months later, though.....my kids ate bison kidney and venison heart and i'm a happy camper, and so are they....

we're here for you. don't give up....this too shall pass.


----------



## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

I think what the issue is here that they don't have the musculature built up to keep them strong "back there" 

Does that make sense? I think with time they will get stronger and be able to hold it.

I really hope you don't give up on this....keep us posted!


----------



## AdrianVall (Aug 26, 2010)

magicre said:


> breathe....
> 
> this is part of transition....
> 
> ...


First off... let me just thank you for the amazing post. I seriously am very thankful for everyone here. You guys are such awesome people! 

There last meal is at 6 PM every evening. They eat at 6 AM every morning. Buddy (boxer) weighs about 70 lbs. and he eats 2 lbs. a day, and he's PERFECT weight. Very lean. BIG (4 month mastiff pup) is 55 lbs. and eats 3 lbs. a day, and is also a good weight, if not a little skinny.

The Cannon butt seems to be pretty much over. Now its either solid, or a squishy liquid rather then a rainfall.

Again, thank you so much for the post. I'm here to learn, so please critique me by all means. I will most certainly not take anything to offense. I appreciate the strong advice.

I guess I just need to continue to keep on keeping on with it. Sounds like a lot of you have gone through the same experience, so that makes me feel much better. I can already see a huge difference in boxer's coat and weight. He's lost a couple lbs. of healthy weight, and gained more muscle mass already. Its incredible. His itchiness is just about gone too. BIG is still kinda itchy, but I'm sure it'll get better.



whiteleo said:


> I think I remember this scenario when switching over to raw but it wasn't a matter of them going in their crate it, they would all of a sudden have turds coming out when they weren't quite ready! The problem resolved itself with time, they just had to get the kibble poop dance out of their system. I believe re also had this issue with the dogs getting her up earlier to go outside than before, so she just fed them earlier in the day and the problem was solved.


Wow. That's strange. Mine just can't seem to hold it very well for to long. I guess I may need to start setting my alarm in the middle of the night to let them out. I just don't want to get them in the habit of that, cause they'll eventually get the point where they expect it, ya know?

Thanks so much for the help guys! I appreciate it big time.


----------



## jdatwood (Apr 13, 2009)

After you feed them @ 6pm do they poop before bed?

Can you feed their night time meal later?


----------



## eternalstudent (Jul 22, 2010)

All the above are excellent posts, my only suggestion would be to feed later. I don't know the exact times for getting stool through a dog but a feed at 6pm could be the problem. I feed my pup late at night so she gets the full stomach sleep, but it also means that she only has to hold in the potential next poo, for 7 hours.

It might be something you could consider 

Ok so I am repeating what jdatwood just said as his post was not there when I started typing!! (I am going to say great minds think alike!!)


----------



## AdrianVall (Aug 26, 2010)

You know.. I haven ever thought about that. That is a WONDERFUL idea. I will try feeding later now. I'll try it at 9 PM now to see how they do. That should be good. They always go poo right after dinner. But I will try later. That sounds like a good plan!

Thanks guys!


----------



## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

for you, it would work better to feed later.....good idea...

you may want to get up earlier, rather than the middle of the night...don't want that habit to become habit ......

to take them out until they get used to holding their bowels.....and then you can, little by little, extend the time...

we did that...we did not sleep in on weekends....it was 4 a.m. every day...and then one day, bubba started to sleep later, so did malia....and we just sort of extended our sleep on weekends by 15 minute increments...

now that i'm thinking about it, the first two months sucked big time LOL...


----------



## xxshaelxx (Mar 8, 2010)

magicre said:


> part of the problem can be stemming from your own tension and worry....none of us were 100% on board with raw.....we were frightened and tense. we were afraid we were killing our dogs.....i mean, who feeds raw meat to a dog? i was taught that dog food came in a bag....


Hmmm... lol. I was never afraid of killing my dogs. When I was researching Sibes, I bought a book on the breed, and while reading it, it recommended high protein kibbles, but said that raw diets were the best thing available to dogs, though highly expensive. So, I always thought to myself that if I ever had enough money, I would feed something like BARF, because it just wasn't in my budget, and I started out on kibble. Then I met Rannmiller in a Petsupermarket, where she was SUPPOSED to be recommending Blue Buffalo to people. I happened to mention raw, and how I'd love to feed it, but it just wasn't in my budget, and that's when things went uphill for me. She told me how I could afford it, and what exactly to do, gave me two awesome links (here, and preymodelraw.com), and at that point I decided that when the kibble was gone, it was no more for them, and they'd be on raw.

Perhaps you are right, though? About the cannon butt issues perhaps being something related to our own anxieties. I mean, I was nervous, but I was more-so nervous about doing it wrong, and I did a few times, but I'll tell you what, they never once had cannon butt. They did absolutely wonderful through the transition, so much so that I thought Ryou had constipation because his poops were sooooo solid and soooooo small!

I also convinced a friend to go raw with her dogs, and she jumped on the bandwagon without even any hesitation. She was totally excited about this. I know for a fact that her dogs didn't have any issues with the transition, either.


----------



## BrownStandardPoodle (Aug 22, 2010)

Yeah, so far my 2 standard poodles have had no diarrhea whatsoever which I'm verrrry grateful for since they had just finished having 2 months of nonstop diarrhea from kibble. 

Good luck, hope it goes better for you!

You could try giving pure pumpkin from a can. That could help. 

I gave this to my dogs once I decided to go raw, because I asked someone at the raw food store. It stopped the diarrhea cold. It's called ST-C "On the trail" It's made in Canmore, Alberta. It contains peppermint, chamomile, dandelion root, slippery elm, marshmallow root, fennel, ginger root, oregon grape, rosemary leaf and tumeric. Maybe go to a pet store that sells raw food and ask if they have anything similar. It would make them more solid and able to hold their poo in at night.

Cheers,
Carol


----------



## jdatwood (Apr 13, 2009)

Giving pumpkin will simply mask the problem.

It's better to diagnose the actual issue and treat it.

Too much meat & not enough bone?

Overfeeding?

Either could be the cause of the runs but giving pumpkin won't allow it to be diagnosed.

I would either cut back their portions til the runs firm up OR feed MORE bone and LESS meat til you see firm poops. Then slowly add back in more meat til you're back to feeding normally.


----------



## luvMyBRT (Mar 8, 2010)

Yes, stick with it! :biggrin:

When Duncan had his bout of diarrhea it always happened in the middle of the night. I would hear him whining and I'd have to get up to let him out.

I think the thing to try, like others have said, is to feed later. 

With Duncan I started to feed earlier, and I took out his middle meal. It seemed that the middle meal is what was causing the diarrhea. So, he now eats twice a day, at 8 am and between 4-5 pm. I usually go to bed late, so he has a chance to go poop right before bed, which is working great for him. 

Post here when you need support and keep going! You can do it! :biggrin:


----------



## ubershann (Jul 29, 2010)

Tiki never had any problem with diarrhea or loose stools when she switched to raw. Maybe it's because she was switched on to beef and not chicken. I'm still a little unclear about why I've seen here that transitioning should take several months, but maybe a different meat would help? 

While all her poops are very solid, they seem even more firm with beef than pork. Different meats can cause different effects, so maybe this has to do with the type of meat they're getting?


----------



## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

I think the real issue is that your not feeding a PMR diet and your adding in things to your dogs diet that will firm up the stool, (cottage cheese) so you can't really compare your diet to that of the PMR diet. Just sayin!


----------

