# Annamaet and Fromm



## lovemydogsalways (Mar 4, 2012)

The two hounds have been eating Fromm puppy Gold for three bags now. We are in the off season of hunting and the food has 417kcal. I am wondering if I should switch to Annamaet Ultra once winter gets here @ 480kcal. Both good companies, but I would get 7 more pounds of food with ultra.


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## 1605 (May 27, 2009)

lovemydogsalways said:


> The two hounds have been eating Fromm puppy Gold for three bags now. We are in the off season of hunting and the food has 417kcal. I am wondering if I should switch to Annamaet Ultra once winter gets here @ 480kcal. Both good companies, but I would get 7 more pounds of food with ultra.


We will be switching back to EVO Turkey/Chicken once their supply chain has been re-established because when we looked for an interim food, Fromm didn't have enough protein, calories or fat. And while we didn't consider Annamet Ultra because we can't get it locally, I don't see it having the protein or calories our GSPs would require either.

Our dogs are both 60 lbs and would require so much more of either of those foods to give them enough nutrition, even now during the "off season", so as to make neither of them useful to us. So we are feeding them Natures Variety Instinct Chicken until the EVO comes back into stores.

FWIW,


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

What about Momentum?

Premium All Natural Pet Food | Dr. Tim's

Can easily be ordered online and at your door within a few days lol.


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## lovemydogsalways (Mar 4, 2012)

meggels said:


> What about Momentum?
> 
> Premium All Natural Pet Food | Dr. Tim's
> 
> Can easily be ordered online and at your door within a few days lol.


Woza that is allot of calories. I wonder if that would be to much. Guess the only way to know is to try. They do run miles in the winter.I bet I wouldn't have to feed allot of it.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

lovemydogsalways said:


> Woza that is allot of calories. I wonder if that would be to much. Guess the only way to know is to try. They do run miles in the winter.I bet I wouldn't have to feed allot of it.


Sorry, that was in response to Sub Mariner.

If you think Momentum is high, the next step down is Pursuit:

Premium All Natural Pet Food | Dr. Tim's


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## 1605 (May 27, 2009)

meggels said:


> What about Momentum?
> 
> Premium All Natural Pet Food | Dr. Tim's
> 
> Can easily be ordered online and at your door within a few days lol.


We prefer grainless, plus this one does not have enough protein at 34%. Also, the only way to get it would be to order it from a distributor in Miami. What good is that to us if there are problems? Working with what we can get locally avoids a lot of hassle.

Even at this time of the year (non-field season) we are still exercising our GSPs at least every other day. Running earlier in the day, swimming, etc. They put out so much energy that something with less than 40% protein and 20% fat just doesn't give them enough fuel: they lose weight and muscle mass.


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## dr tim (Mar 27, 2011)

Iditarod dogs are typically on a protein content of about 35%, tops. They run a lot more than any other dog I know. You want a higher fat food with that level of protein, more is a waste of cost as the main price in a dog food is the protein content. No sense using protein for fuel as it should be used for muscle maintenance and growth.


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## jaber6 (Feb 21, 2013)

dr tim said:


> Iditarod dogs are typically on a protein content of about 35%, tops. They run a lot more than any other dog I know. You want a higher fat food with that level of protein, more is a waste of cost as the main price in a dog food is the protein content. No sense using protein for fuel as it should be used for muscle maintenance and growth.


Is it true that anything over a certain percent of protein, ends up being a waste? (pee'd out or gets converted to energy, but at the cost of calories the food is providing). Read this somewhere on the internet once.


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## dr tim (Mar 27, 2011)

Correct. More protein than a dog requires at a given time will be converted to energy stores, typically fat stores. Very costly way to just promote fat deposition.


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## InkedMarie (Sep 9, 2011)

lovemydogsalways said:


> Woza that is allot of calories. I wonder if that would be to much. Guess the only way to know is to try. They do run miles in the winter.I bet I wouldn't have to feed allot of it.


Pursuit is same dog food company but less calories.


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## lovemydogsalways (Mar 4, 2012)

Dr Tim, which of your foods would be a good choice for my two male Foxhounds that run miles in the winter. For example one day they ran from 830 in the morning till about 3 in the afternoon. It is what their bred for and they can handle it but I do want them to be able to keep weight on them without having to feed more than 4 cups a day. The calories in their food right now is at 417. Last year during hunting season they were eating Nutrisource performance with 491kcal but they wetter skinny with four cups a day.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

SubMariner said:


> We prefer grainless, plus this one does not have enough protein at 34%. Also, the only way to get it would be to order it from a distributor in Miami. What good is that to us if there are problems? Working with what we can get locally avoids a lot of hassle.
> 
> Even at this time of the year (non-field season) we are still exercising our GSPs at least every other day. Running earlier in the day, swimming, etc. They put out so much energy that something with less than 40% protein and 20% fat just doesn't give them enough fuel: they lose weight and muscle mass.


Is there any reason in particular (allergy or intolerance) that you prefer grainless?

You could also just order it online, it would be at your door within 2-3 days. You could easily stock up on some Instinct and attempt to switch them, that way you still have some Instinct on back up in case for some reason there is a problem. 

Evo has been recalled twice in the past few months, that certainly doesn't help you to get it locally, so I guess I don't see the problem with just ordering a food online. Many people do it with no issues at all.


Here's two other options:

Victor Super Premium Dog Food

https://redpawdogfood.com/products/poweredge/38k

I've heard good reviews from people with very active performance/working dogs.


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## dr tim (Mar 27, 2011)

For those Foxhounds Momentum would be a perfect fit. You would feed about 2-2 1/2 cups a day, I bet.


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## InkedMarie (Sep 9, 2011)

Lovemydogsalways: any chance you can post a couple of pictures of your foxhounds? We had an American Foxhound named Emma. Miss her...


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## lovemydogsalways (Mar 4, 2012)

The Orange collar is Triton 
The 
brown collar is stroker.


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## InkedMarie (Sep 9, 2011)

Thank you o much for posting pictures!


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## lovemydogsalways (Mar 4, 2012)

The weather dropped to 65 last night and that is cool enough to let the hounds out. Stroker ran four miles last night we watched his every move on our gps system. Definitely will need a food with high calories once the weather cools. I will try momentum.


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## 1605 (May 27, 2009)

meggels said:


> Is there any reason in particular (allergy or intolerance) that you prefer grainless? You could also just order it online, it would be at your door within 2-3 days. You could easily stock up on some Instinct and attempt to switch them, that way you still have some Instinct on back up in case for some reason there is a problem. Evo has been recalled twice in the past few months, that certainly doesn't help you to get it locally, so I guess I don't see the problem with just ordering a food online. Many people do it with no issues at all. Here's two other options: Victor Super Premium Dog Food https://redpawdogfood.com/products/poweredge/38k I've heard good reviews from people with very active performance/working dogs.


 

Personally, we don't like feeding our dogs grain-inclusive foods because we find they tend to have lower protein levels and too much fillers like tomato or beet pomace. 

For example, the Victor Select High Energy only has 24% protein, which is too low to keep muscle mass on our GSPs. 

When we got our first GSP, we were feeding him Pro Plan per the breeder's recommendation. We then went to Members' Mark Exceed, because it had a "higher" protein content at 34%. However, we were up to four cups of food per day and the dog still looking like some starving village dog: skinny, couldn't keep on muscle/weight. And talk about "output!" After switching to EVO Turkey/Chicken he filled out nicely, had a great coat and lots of stamina in the field. All on 10 oz 2x day. So it was a no-brainer to go to another, better quality food because we would SEE the results

BTW, I have attached a picture of what my guys were doing last weekend in Jacksonville. Yes, the dogs swim out & back non stop across about 100 yards of pond.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

If you look at the Victor Grain Free Ultra Pro, it has 42% protein and 22% fat.


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## 1605 (May 27, 2009)

meggels said:


> If you look at the Victor Grain Free Ultra Pro, it has 42% protein and 22% fat.


I haven't looked at it because I cannot get it locally. As I mentioned in a previous email, I prefer to get my dog food locally rather than online.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

SubMariner said:


> I haven't looked at it because I cannot get it locally. As I mentioned in a previous email, I prefer to get my dog food locally rather than online.


I guess that doesn't leave you with many options then lol...

I find it interesting though that you're such a stickler on some things, but you are willing to continue using a company that has had multiple recalls in a few months time...


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## 1605 (May 27, 2009)

meggels said:


> I guess that doesn't leave you with many options then lol...
> 
> I find it interesting though that you're such a stickler on some things, but you are willing to continue using a company that has had multiple recalls in a few months time...


I find it interesting that you would buy something on the Internet that you don't have first hand knowledge of... namely dog food. Why would I just order something because "it looks good"?

As for "multiple recalls in a few months time", that's a bit of an exaggeration. It's basically the same issue that hasn't quite been resolved yet. Not only that, but it is the first time this company has ever had a problem. Furthermore, it's entirely voluntary and represented only a single sample in a thousand that tested positive.

Frankly, I'm puzzled why you are so interested in pushing me into another food that doesn't meet my needs.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

SubMariner said:


> I find it interesting that you would buy something on the Internet that you don't have first hand knowledge of... namely dog food. Why would I just order something because "it looks good"?
> 
> As for "multiple recalls in a few months time", that's a bit of an exaggeration. It's basically the same issue that hasn't quite been resolved yet. Not only that, but it is the first time this company has ever had a problem. Furthermore, it's entirely voluntary and represented only a single sample in a thousand that tested positive.
> 
> Frankly, I'm puzzled why you are so interested in pushing me into another food that doesn't meet my needs.


Huh? I'm not sure what you mean by first hand knowledge? If you mean such as actually using the product...well you have to at some point purchase to at least try it, so I'm not sure why it really matters whether its in a pet store or online, it's still the same product. Before I purchased Annamaet (online), I did hours of research into the product, read reviews, and even talked to Rob Downey. 

During both recalls people have given you other options that have fit your criteria pretty well, but they have been shot down. 

If you want to continue feeding Evo, be my guest. I hope you just don't run into this issue again where you can't get it. Hopefully they don't have another recall, though I'd be surprised if they don't. If they do, I hope the Instinct does work out for you. I would just be hesitant to use it long term due to the ash levels. But I guess everyone has their own idea of what's important in a food...high ash levels make me uncomfortable personally but if they don't bother you then I guess it's no big deal


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## InkedMarie (Sep 9, 2011)

SubMariner said:


> I find it interesting that you would buy something on the Internet that you don't have first hand knowledge of... namely dog food. Why would I just order something because "it looks good"?
> 
> e.


Your post wasn't directed at me but first hand knowledge....none of us have that, whether we buy in person or online. It's dog food, where we purchase it doesn't matter (in regards to what you say above). We all buy our dog food because we think it looks good, someone recommended it, we like the reviews, etc. We still buy it.


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## FarminaND (May 23, 2013)

SubMariner said:


> We prefer grainless, plus this one does not have enough protein at 34%. Also, the only way to get it would be to order it from a distributor in Miami. What good is that to us if there are problems? Working with what we can get locally avoids a lot of hassle.
> 
> Even at this time of the year (non-field season) we are still exercising our GSPs at least every other day. Running earlier in the day, swimming, etc. They put out so much energy that something with less than 40% protein and 20% fat just doesn't give them enough fuel: they lose weight and muscle mass.


We will be offering several foods that will fit your needs. The grain-free line will have several 37/18 formulas, a 42/22 formula that is much higher quality than what is available in the market now and an excellent 35/20 formula that might be the best for sporting applications. Ash ranges from 7.30% to 8.50% and all have calcium around or below 1.50% and phosphorous below or at 1%. If you compare that to the foods with 40% or higher protein you will quickly notice that we use better protein sources. The line will also include a single protein Codfish formula with no chicken, eggs or chicken fat that has a very high 30% protein level without non-codfish protein included. None of the diets include any plant oils or flax and the animal protein concentration starts at 92% to about 97% depending on the formula.


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## riddick4811 (Nov 2, 2011)

SubMariner said:


> I haven't looked at it because I cannot get it locally. As I mentioned in a previous email, I prefer to get my dog food locally rather than online.


Not sure how far you consider local, but I drive 18 miles to pick up Victor for some of my dogs. Also not sure where in Tampa you are located, but there are more and more retailers of Victor popping up in FL. 

JFYI- not pushing the food. 

There is one in Odessa that is 14 miles from Tampa:
AGRI SUPPLIERS-FOXES (14.2 miles)
16820 GUNN HIGHWAY
Odessa FL 33556

ANTIOCH FEED DEPOT (15.6 miles)
12650 MCINTOSH RD
Thonotosassa FL 33592
Phone: 813-986-5611

And this is where I get my food and they do have a lot of people come from Tampa to buy food. 

LAKELAND VETERINARY SUPPLY (32.5 miles)
5206 HWY 98 N
Lakeland FL 33809
Phone: 863-858-9292


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## 1605 (May 27, 2009)

meggels said:


> Huh? I'm not sure what you mean by first hand knowledge? If you mean such as actually using the product...well you have to at some point purchase to at least try it, so I'm not sure why it really matters whether its in a pet store or online, it's still the same product. Before I purchased Annamaet (online), I did hours of research into the product, read reviews, and even talked to Rob Downey.
> 
> During both recalls people have given you other options that have fit your criteria pretty well, but they have been shot down.



From the beginning, I have given specific criteria. If they they are not met, then I do not consider the dog food. I'm not sure how much more clear I can be on the subject, or why you persist in pushing your own personal agenda.



> If you want to continue feeding Evo, be my guest. I hope you just don't run into this issue again where you can't get it. Hopefully they don't have another recall, though I'd be surprised if they don't. If they do, I hope the Instinct does work out for you. I would just be hesitant to use it long term due to the ash levels. But I guess everyone has their own idea of what's important in a food...high ash levels make me uncomfortable personally but if they don't bother you then I guess it's no big deal


I really don't know where you are getting your information from. "Hopefully they don't have another recall, though I'd be surprised if they don't" is not a useful or objective remark. It's just inflammatory as you again show your dislike for the company that makes the dog food. Get over it already.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

What personal agenda?? I've never even fed Victor for gods sake lol.

I'm sorry you feel it's inflammatory, but I'm completely entitled to my opinion of the company, even if it doesn't align with yours. Just like I wouldn't be shocked if Diamond had another recall, it wouldn't shock me if Natura did either.


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## lovemydogsalways (Mar 4, 2012)

Do I buy the momentum now to make sure they are going to do well on the food?


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## dr tim (Mar 27, 2011)

Yes, I would always recc an athletic dog be on a new food for a time ahead of activity to best benefit transition, especially as to how the mitochondria handle the fat. It isn't about digestibility in switching months ahead, it is about converting at the cellular level how fat is handled.


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## Kikki (Jul 27, 2013)

SubMariner said:


> What good is that to us if there are problems? Working with what we can get locally avoids a lot of hassle.


I think you've got the wrong impression of ordering online, it's supposed to make it LESS of a hassle. There's many, many great websites these days that offers a wide of food which is great if there's a brand one would like to buy that can't be found locally. Even brands that can be found locally, I still order online because not only is it cheaper (many sites also has free shipping and you pay no tax if the company is based in a different state) - I don't have to drive all the way to the store and then carry it. All reputable websites was a costumer service you can call if you'd have any problems. 

I recently bought food through Wag.com that had 30% off offer, I saved a total of $50 from ordering 2 large food bags. 1 bag had a problem, the bag was open because the zip caved in from arriving upside down (Earthborn Primitive Natural), called their costumer service, they sent a replacement bag which arrived at my door step the very next day. I didn't even have to sent the problematic bag back, even if I did, all I'd have to do was to print a return label and send it back in the same box it arrived in (free of charge ofcourse). Not much of a hassle at all. I even got reimbursted with $20 for the hassle AND got a 6 lbs bag of Earthborn Plain Feast free of charge. All of this and I didn't even have to put my shoes on, they were just a phone call away. Bet no local store would be able to do that for you 




SubMariner said:


> I find it interesting that you would buy something on the Internet that you don't have first hand knowledge of... namely dog food. Why would I just order something because "it looks good"?


What exactly is it that you consider "first hand knowledge of" that a local store can offer but an online retailer cannot? The ability to physically touch the food bag and read the ingredient list directly off of it? Because the ingredient list will look say exactly the same online. Or maybe you want to be able to talk to the sales person? You can call an online retailers costumer service before placing an order (Wag.com's costumer service is available around the clock). Or maybe you don't want to buy a food you've never tried before in case the dog doesn't like it and scared you can't return it? Just so you know, many quality food brand has a 100% satisfaction guarantee which says you may return the bag if your dog doesn't like it (no matter if you bought it at a physical store or via online retailer). Normally an good online retailer won't bother make you send the bag back before giving you a refund but they'll probably ask you to donate the food to a local shelter. Great thing, all around. However, if even that feels like a hassle for you, you can email the food company and request for some samples of the food you're considering buying. This way you will have "first hand knowledge" of whatever food you buy no matter where you plan to buy it. Hope you'll consider ordering online once before ruling it out entirely 


Honestly, before actually ordering online, I never thought much about it until my husband accidently stumbled across a great online retailer. They sold a big bag of Innova Prime for $13 cheaper than what we were paying at PetSmart (before the recent recall, I won't be going back to Natura) and shipping was free, NO TAX, so why not? Since then, I've never bought from a physical store (with 1 exception, when we got our latest addition, we went to pick up a bag of the brand her breeder fed her).


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## bett (Mar 15, 2012)

i ordered 3 different foods- fromm gf beef frittata, salmon tunalini, and pinnacle duck and salmon-on thurs at about 3.
had all the food, delivered by fri at the end of the day.
didnt have to go anywhere, no shipping, no hassle.

love mrchewy.


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## flashyfawn (Mar 8, 2012)

Yep, I use Chewy also. I have autoship set up with them. Went online Friday to add a few things and change my shipping schedule to have it ship out that day. It was at my house the next day at about 1:30, less than 24 hrs after I ordered it. Can't beat that!


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## 1605 (May 27, 2009)

Kikki said:


> I think you've got the wrong impression of ordering online, it's supposed to make it LESS of a hassle. There's many, many great websites these days that offers a wide of food which is great if there's a brand one would like to buy that can't be found locally. Even brands that can be found locally, I still order online because not only is it cheaper (many sites also has free shipping and you pay no tax if the company is based in a different state) - I don't have to drive all the way to the store and then carry it. All reputable websites was a costumer service you can call if you'd have any problems.
> 
> I recently bought food through Wag.com that had 30% off offer, I saved a total of $50 from ordering 2 large food bags. 1 bag had a problem, the bag was open because the zip caved in from arriving upside down (Earthborn Primitive Natural), called their costumer service, they sent a replacement bag which arrived at my door step the very next day. I didn't even have to sent the problematic bag back, even if I did, all I'd have to do was to print a return label and send it back in the same box it arrived in (free of charge ofcourse). Not much of a hassle at all. I even got reimbursted with $20 for the hassle AND got a 6 lbs bag of Earthborn Plain Feast free of charge. All of this and I didn't even have to put my shoes on, they were just a phone call away. Bet no local store would be able to do that for you
> 
> ...


There are many things that I wouldn't hesitate to order online ONCE I ALREADY HAD EXPERIENCE WITH THE PRODUCT. Actually, we buy most of our stuff online, so why people assume we are luddites who don't buy stuff from online vendors is beyond me. Where did I ever say that I never buy anything online?

But in this case, I was looking for NEW FOOD for my dogs. It makes no sense to order something online THAT I HAVE NEVER TRIED BEFORE. I really don't fathom how this is so hard for people to understand & why there are still posts on this topic.

Frankly, it's a moot point as we are now able to get EVO again. So we can now close this part of this thread.


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## Kikki (Jul 27, 2013)

SubMariner said:


> There are many things that I wouldn't hesitate to order online ONCE I ALREADY HAD EXPERIENCE WITH THE PRODUCT. Actually, we buy most of our stuff online, so why people assume we are luddites who don't buy stuff from online vendors is beyond me. Where did I ever say that I never buy anything online?
> 
> But in this case, I was looking for NEW FOOD for my dogs. It makes no sense to order something online THAT I HAVE NEVER TRIED BEFORE. I really don't fathom how this is so hard for people to understand & why there are still posts on this topic.
> 
> Frankly, it's a moot point as we are now able to get EVO again. So we can now close this part of this thread.


I can't answer why other people made that assumption but the reason to why I thought so was because the the quotes I responded to so I was just trying to be helpful IN CASE it happened to be that you didn't have any prior online shopping experience. Like I mentioned in my last post, if you wanted to, you could requests for free samples from the dog food company if you've never tried it before and would like to before you commit to a purchase.

Did you receive your checks and coupons by P&G, btw? I received my check last week already but today I got some coupons which immediately made me think of you since I'm not going back to Natura products and it'd be a waste to throw the coupons away. Unfortunately the coupons are for Innova products (which I fed) and not unlimited to any Natura products as I first thought.


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## 1605 (May 27, 2009)

Kikki said:


> I can't answer why other people made that assumption but the reason to why I thought so was because the the quotes I responded to so I was just trying to be helpful IN CASE it happened to be that you didn't have any prior online shopping experience. Like I mentioned in my last post, if you wanted to, you could requests for free samples from the dog food company if you've never tried it before and would like to before you commit to a purchase.
> 
> Did you receive your checks and coupons by P&G, btw? I received my check last week already but today I got some coupons which immediately made me think of you since I'm not going back to Natura products and it'd be a waste to throw the coupons away. Unfortunately the coupons are for Innova products (which I fed) and not unlimited to any Natura products as I first thought.


No, we haven't gotten our cheque (etc) from P&G yet. How long between when you sent in your refund request & when you received reimbursement? I expect we'll have to wait a bit yet as I only send in the request on 7/1.


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## Kikki (Jul 27, 2013)

SubMariner said:


> No, we haven't gotten our cheque (etc) from P&G yet. How long between when you sent in your refund request & when you received reimbursement? I expect we'll have to wait a bit yet as I only send in the request on 7/1.


I can't recall the exact date but I remember it was around the very end of June so probably just a few days or 1 weeks tops ahead of you. Hopefully it'll arrive any day now and you'll probably receive some EVO coupons too.


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