# Dog Parks love/hate relationship....



## lauren43

They definately have their good side. Avery loves going to the dog park. Its a great work out.


















Get to meet cute little buggers like this.









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But there is also a bad side. I am generally against prong, chokes, electric shock collars and while I realize some people swear by them, they are just personally not for me. Anywho, to each their own, but how hard is it to remove a prong collar (or any other metal collar) before letting your dog play at the park. I am sry, but I do not want my dog chipping a tooth on your dogs' collar.









Last time I went to the dog park, this woman and her son, comes in with 5 unaltered dogs. Now I understand that people can responsibly own unaltered dogs, but these people were not. 1st off one of their males had healing scars (they were still pink and icky looking) all over his back, I have no clue what could have caused these, but they were not pretty...and if you have a dog in this condition, it does NOT belong in the dog park. One of the females was a happy go lucky labradoodle (or something like that) she seemed young yet, probably too young to have been bred yet. The other female was in terrible shape. She had very little fur left on her hind end and it looked like she had recently weaned pups, to me it seemed very likely that was not her first litter. She looked to be somewhere between 2-4 years old but it was hard to tell. Also you could tell she did not want to be bothered by any dog in the park, if they came near her, she became snarky. Again she did not belong at the dog park. I got a pic of the female, but I must have missed the male beagle. Also they were very 'cesar milan' with their dogs, which again turned me off.









Finally the worst incident. I watched this dog (GORGEOUS!) nearly tear a yorkie apart. Was that the dogs fault? No. But if your dog is not good with little dogs, don't come in. And of course the yorkie should not have been on the big dogs side, I guess common sense is not that common.









Why do I still go to the park you may wonder? Well I try really really hard to go on the 'off' times so there are only a few dogs and I can judge the dogs and their owners. At the first sign of trouble we leave. Avery just loves dogs far too much not to go, I try to socialize him as much as I can. In reality I really wish I could stay away but watching Avery get enjoyment out of it somehow makes it worth it. He does also go to daycare, but at daycare I can't watch him play.


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## SilverBeat

Is that the Wegmans Good Dog Park? I have been meaning to take Wallaby there.. when do you find is a good, not-so-busy time to take him?
Wallaby hasn't been playing with his dog buddies so much lately, I think he misses socializing.


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## kady05

For the life of me, I have NO clue why people take their dogs to dog parks and expose them to crap like that, especially any owner of a Bully breed. Dog parks are notorious for spreading diseases; one of our local ones was shut down 5 times one summer due to Parvo. I've heard numerous people say their dog picked up worms, coccidia, etc. from the dog park. Then there are the dog fights. And they still keep going. Just blows my mind.


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## whiteleo

HATE, HATE, dog parks...Most people don't have a clue how to use, they think this is where they teach their dogs to socialize, NOT! They also think this where they go to socialize, NOT! Won't go, don't advocate.


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## nikkiluvsu15

Absolutely LOVE my dog park... and so does Harleigh. We've had a few incidents with snarky dogs, but nothing real bad. I go there because Harleigh loves it and even if there is a dog visiting that isn't the "best", I can easily go away from him/her. 

Really the only "issues" I've come across there are it is mainly college students who take their dog there and then they just let them run around/play while they do homework. That does drive my crazy... I'm constantly following Harleigh wherever she goes, LOL.

My park is a private dog park, it is 14 acres and has tons of room (plus 2 ponds, agility, dry dog area, GIANT sand hill and more!). Another thing is since it is a private dog park, member can come and go when they please (key cob)... the most dogs I've seen there when I've gone is _maybe_ 10-15 dogs. 10-15 dogs in a 14 acre park... is like nothing. :tongue:

































































I have absolutely no problem with people not liking or not going to dog parks, but for *ME* and *MY dog* the benefits/fun outweigh the risks.


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## lauren43

Nikki your dog park looks wayyyyy better than the one here. I wish there was a big one like that here, 14 acres holy moly.


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## xellil

My Doberman loves the dog park. He's never gotten any diseases and it's really the only place he can interact with alot of dogs, which he loves to do even though he's pretty awkward at social relationships. It's good for him.

There are several people that bring pit bulls there, and they are all really sweet dogs. One of them tries to crawl in my lap if I sit down - I wish I could take her home.

Of course there are some knuckleheads. There would be knuckleheads anywhere. But there aren't alot of people there - if someone comes in with an aggressive dog, or a dog in heat, all the regular folks just get their dogs and move to the other side. It gets the point across. Bad owners aren't really tolerated, although I think people stand around and talk too much I guess that's not a horrible thing.

People who come with prong collars are usually just ignorant, and once it is explained to them that the collar can hurt another dog, they take it off and don't do it again. It's difficult sometimes for people to totally give up control of their dog. Mentally, you think of all the horrible things that can happen the first time you take off the leash and let him go.

Man, I would love it if my dog park had a pond. That looks so fun.


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## Unosmom

prong collars at the dog park is also a huge pet peeve, especially the really lose ones. I've heard horror stories of dogs getting caught in those while playing and being dragged to death. 
Biggest pet peeve, kids at the dog park. Especially loud, obnoxious, screaming kids that chase dogs and parents think its perfectly fine for their kid to grab strangers dogs or pick them up.


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## KittyKat

I used to take my dog all the time, but she socializes a lot at the dog shows and lure coursing she goes to, and those dogs are typically much better behaved. Sometimes I go and she plays with the puppies that are there but thats about it.

Typically I take her to a park near my house that doesn't often have other people there:

























Where she can run and swim without interruption.


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## Caty M

I do and I don't like them. I do go nearly every day. Tess is quite timid at the park but she is getting better. I simply don't have friends with dogs that are well behaved so that isn't an option for socializing.. I do take her to other parks and the pet store though, too. I've seen people bring their bitch IN HEAT to the park.. Tess being timid also gets picked on sometimes and I'm sorry but if my dog was harassing another dog I'd be right in there stopping it. I hate when people mistake aggressive behavior for 'oh he's just playing!'..

I also HATE HATE HATE people who's dogs are not under voice command. I worked with Tess (a sighthound!!) so much to have a reliable recall. If an Iggy can learn a recall, any dog can. If I tell my dog to stop and come, they do. 

Prob the #1 pet peeve.. is people taking their dogs on long leashes. Like 25-50 feet. Their dog runs around tripping people and their dogs. If your dog cannot be trusted offleash in a fenced area, it should not be there. Tess's leg got wrapped around a rope and her being an iggy I am lucky that it didn't break.

Young kids are annoying too.. being an offleash park you do expect a certain amount of jumping/wrestling etc.. so if a dog playing with another dog runs into your kid and knocks it over, it's no one's fault but your own for bringing a young kid there. That being said I hate when people are ignoring their golden retriever who's mauling me and jumping all over me when he was just playing in the river and mud (yep, that's happened).. all I got out of them was "molly.. please stop jumping :sad:" with no effect.


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## Caty M

Mostly it's a positive experience. Bishop loves the other dogs and Tess loves a fenced area in which to run.


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## whiteleo

Caty M said:


> I do and I don't like them. I do go nearly every day. Tess is quite timid at the park but she is getting better. I simply don't have friends with dogs that are well behaved so that isn't an option for socializing.. I do take her to other parks and the pet store though, too. I've seen people bring their bitch IN HEAT to the park.. Tess being timid also gets picked on sometimes and I'm sorry but if my dog was harassing another dog I'd be right in there stopping it. I hate when people mistake aggressive behavior for 'oh he's just playing!'..
> 
> I also HATE HATE HATE people who's dogs are not under voice command. I worked with Tess (a sighthound!!) so much to have a reliable recall. If an Iggy can learn a recall, any dog can. If I tell my dog to stop and come, they do.
> 
> Prob the #1 pet peeve.. is people taking their dogs on long leashes. Like 25-50 feet. Their dog runs around tripping people and their dogs. If your dog cannot be trusted offleash in a fenced area, it should not be there. Tess's leg got wrapped around a rope and her being an iggy I am lucky that it didn't break.
> 
> Young kids are annoying too.. being an offleash park you do expect a certain amount of jumping/wrestling etc.. so if a dog playing with another dog runs into your kid and knocks it over, it's no one's fault but your own for bringing a young kid there. That being said I hate when people are ignoring their golden retriever who's mauling me and jumping all over me when he was just playing in the river and mud (yep, that's happened).. all I got out of them was "molly.. please stop jumping :sad:" with no effect.


Your dog being timid and "being picked on sometimes" is not doing her any favors as far as boosting her confidence level.


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## Caty M

I immediately step in if a dog is trying to play with her and she doesn't want to. Before we started bringing her she would scream if a dog approached her. We gave her a treat every time a dog came up to her. Now she will go so far as to sniff another dog's butt and occasionally chase when two dogs are running.. she doesn't like it if they turn on her, though. She is a million times better than before we started bringing her.. so it IS doing wonders for her confidence.


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## xellil

At my dog park, if there are other dogs that respond to "come" when offleash besides mine, I haven't ever seen them. My only real peeve is when new dogs come in there is a giant mess of dogs going nuts right inside the gate, with several owners going "NO NO NO" from 30 feet away but really doing nothing to stop them. I have seen people actually turn around and leave.


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## hmbutler

nikkiluvsu15 said:


> Absolutely LOVE my dog park... and so does Harleigh. We've had a few incidents with snarky dogs, but nothing real bad. I go there because Harleigh loves it and even if there is a dog visiting that isn't the "best", I can easily go away from him/her.
> 
> Really the only "issues" I've come across there are it is mainly college students who take their dog there and then they just let them run around/play while they do homework. That does drive my crazy... I'm constantly following Harleigh wherever she goes, LOL.
> 
> My park is a private dog park, it is 14 acres and has tons of room (plus 2 ponds, agility, dry dog area, GIANT sand hill and more!). Another thing is since it is a private dog park, member can come and go when they please (key cob)... the most dogs I've seen there when I've gone is _maybe_ 10-15 dogs. 10-15 dogs in a 14 acre park... is like nothing. :tongue:


That park sounds AMAZING! I might have to move there... haha. We don't even have "dog parks" where I live - we have public areas that are "dog exercise areas" and you are allowed to let your dog off-leash, but they are not fenced areas and they are not specific for dogs (i.e. might be fishing beaches or public parks/ovals etc, with lots of humans and kids etc). Why don't Australian's love their dogs as much as Americans??? Lol I want dog parks and dog swimming days at our pool and all that sort of stuff!


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## BrownieM

I also have a love/hate relationship with the dog park. I too go nearly every day. My biggest pet peeves are people leaving prong collars on, keeping their dogs leashed and OVERPROTECTIVE pet parents. I also get peeved when owners of small dogs don't move their dogs over to the small dog area *when it is clearly causing a problem for their dog and the large dogs.* I have NO problem with people bringing their small dogs over to the big dog area. That is fabulous - some small dogs really can stand up for themselves and handle the big guys. That said - many large dogs have great prey drive and like to go chasing and rolling little dogs. Rather than saying that the big dogs can't come, the little dog owners really should just be kind enough to remove their dog from the situation. I am the owner of a large dog with crazy prey drive. He does not do well with little bitty dogs. Does that mean I shouldn't come to the dog park? Absolutely not, IMO. He does great with all dogs except the tiny ones. He will leave the little guys alone when I call him, and I do try to keep him under verbal command, but seriously, it gets annoying. When a little Chinese Crested has its tail constantly tucked and a lady is walking around in the big dog area shoving away the big dogs and then carrying her dog around - It is seriously time for that lady to move to the small dog area. 

Okay, and I will go a little deeper on my current pet peeve. Overprotective pet parents who think that rough playing = aggression. My poodles are very rough players. I know a lot of poodle people, including people who have been breeding well mannered poodles for 30+ years, and it is a known fact that _that they play ROUGH_. We are talking bearing teeth, slamming each other down, antagonizing, barking, growling, ankle nipping. My poodles will bite another dog's neck when playing. But..if you watch closely...those teeth never make contact. It is all play. They have mastered the "soft bite" or "bite inhibition". I can read my dog's body language and I can watch rough play and identify if they are going to hurt the other dog or not. I can identify playfulness vs. aggression. I will step in if necessary. I just hate when people start yelling at my dogs when they are just playing - AND when their dog is in a darn play bow clearly enjoying it too! 

Now..I will admit my dogs can be occasional "bullies" and not know when to stop pestering another dog to play. Sometimes a dog just doesn't want to play and Millie or Henry won't let up. I do step in in that situation because it is unfair.

Okay. Rant over.


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## Caty M

I wish we had a small/big area in our parks.. we just have one big area. Though Tess generally likes bigger dogs over smaller ones.


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## lauren43

BrownieM said:


> I also have a love/hate relationship with the dog park. I too go nearly every day. My biggest pet peeves are people leaving prong collars on, keeping their dogs leashed and OVERPROTECTIVE pet parents. I also get peeved when owners of small dogs don't move their dogs over to the small dog area *when it is clearly causing a problem for their dog and the large dogs.* I have NO problem with people bringing their small dogs over to the big dog area. That is fabulous - some small dogs really can stand up for themselves and handle the big guys. That said - many large dogs have great prey drive and like to go chasing and rolling little dogs. Rather than saying that the big dogs can't come, the little dog owners really should just be kind enough to remove their dog from the situation. I am the owner of a large dog with crazy prey drive. He does not do well with little bitty dogs. Does that mean I shouldn't come to the dog park? Absolutely not, IMO. He does great with all dogs except the tiny ones. He will leave the little guys alone when I call him, and I do try to keep him under verbal command, but seriously, it gets annoying. When a little Chinese Crested has its tail constantly tucked and a lady is walking around in the big dog area shoving away the big dogs and then carrying her dog around - It is seriously time for that lady to move to the small dog area.
> 
> Okay, and I will go a little deeper on my current pet peeve. Overprotective pet parents who think that rough playing = aggression. My poodles are very rough players. I know a lot of poodle people, including people who have been breeding well mannered poodles for 30+ years, and it is a known fact that _that they play ROUGH_. We are talking bearing teeth, slamming each other down, antagonizing, barking, growling, ankle nipping. My poodles will bite another dog's neck when playing. But..if you watch closely...those teeth never make contact. It is all play. They have mastered the "soft bite" or "bite inhibition". I can read my dog's body language and I can watch rough play and identify if they are going to hurt the other dog or not. I can identify playfulness vs. aggression. I will step in if necessary. I just hate when people start yelling at my dogs when they are just playing - AND when their dog is in a darn play bow clearly enjoying it too!
> 
> Now..I will admit my dogs can be occasional "bullies" and not know when to stop pestering another dog to play. Sometimes a dog just doesn't want to play and Millie or Henry won't let up. I do step in in that situation because it is unfair.
> 
> Okay. Rant over.


BTW I wasn't saying you specifically about little dogs, but if you do not have any control (verbal or other) than perhaps you shouldn't be in the park to begin with, the guy with the mal had NO control over his dog and actually didn't even realize what was happening until everyone else was trying to remove his dog from the yorkie.

And I am on the same page with you as far as over protective and actually being able to judge dog behavior. Avery plays rough as well. Today actually the owner of the black lab was a bit over protective. He did get double teamed by my dog and the german shepard and he was scared, I reconized this and went and removed my dog. But mins later the german shep and the lab were double teaming Avery and he loved it! He handles his own very well, but the lab mom kept coming over and pulling the lab away...and of course that just made Avery want to play more. At one point she even grabbed his prong to pull him away, when IMO he wasn't really doing anything wrong. 

Right before we left this dog came in that I thought I reconized but I wasn't sure it was the same dog. The dog I was thinking of had issues with Avery in the past. It was this dog. They were playing very nicely for a while, no issues...then he went off on Avery and this was not in a playful way (I know there was probably a warning in there somewhere, but I didn't see it). Anyhow that was it for us, I am not going to hang around an hope for the best...we left.


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## meggels

I've had mostly good experiences at the dog park, but there isnt a decent one close enough to me anymore that I can frequent them with Abbie.

BUT, there is a huge sports field at the high school next door to my apartment complex (probably 2 football fields or so) and every night around 6pm, some of the locals walk their dogs and let them off leash to play, so it's been quite nice for Abbie


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## CorgiPaws

I dislike dog parks that do not have two sections.... because it means that only people with dogs good with ALL sizes should be there. If a dog park only has one section, I simply won't go because my dogs are not small, and though they're ok with small dogs... one wrong move on their part, and oops... crushed puppy!

If a dog park DOES have two sections, I have no problem telling people with their little scared yappy dogs to get to their side, or quit b**ching.


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## Celt

Now, that we have a real dogpark (not a rock and sticker filled section, the size of my yard), I love going there. We haven't had any "real" issues. The boys love to "stretch out" and RUN. Blaise doesn't much care for other dogs, much more willing to do his own thing with only occassional interactions. Scotty flirts with the poodles, and loves to chase after the other dogs (I have to keep an eye on that though). He hates being chased though. Of course, I still have dogpark envy though. <sigh> Ours is a grassy 3 acres, split into 2 sections (it even has the double gates, I've seen on TV), with a couple of little jumps.


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## tuckersmom20

Tucker uses a prong collar whenever he is on leash.

We rarely ever go to dog parks, but when we have... When I unleash tuck, his prong collar comes with it.
It's metal... There's dogs playing... Don't need problems.

I understand people who do not like prong collars, but when I've tried just about every training collar possible for him... And on his flat collar he almost collapsEd his trachea.
He's a dumb dumb.... So he wears a prong to prevent anymore throat damage than what he has.


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## DoglovingSenior

It only takes 1 bad incident if it involves your dog.


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## kady05

DoglovingSenior said:


> It only takes 1 bad incident if it involves your dog.


Yeah exactly.. and I would never risk my dogs life for that.. plenty of other places to take your dog to exercise and socialize. Being a Bully breed owner, I cringe when I hear "dog park", and when I hear "I know people who take their Pit Bulls to dog parks" I just want to go strangle those owners. No matter what happens, the Pit Bull will ALWAYS take the blame, and it just fuels BSL fire when something does happen. There's a reason every reputable Pit Bull rescue has a "no dog park" policy.


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## Scarlett_O'

DoglovingSenior said:


> It only takes 1 bad incident if it involves your dog.


EXACTLY to these two! I took the boys to one in late May, Rhett was only 3.5 months old and we where meeting Leo for the first time....Leo was over run by this idiot's dogs...he had 3...one, a IN HEAT female that he kept on a 4' leash next to him, and then 2 in tact males! Both the males jumped on Leo when he would even look at the guy and the female, Leo LOVES men....he was just trying to say hi!:frown: But needless to say I kept my leash doubled and in my hand at all times in case they attacked Rhett or Brody...the guy left about 7 min after we got there(we had gone into the empty little dog area with all 3 boys just to be on the safe side...but still even that only had a 2' fence!)

Ill probably never go back to one....other then the beach down in So. Cal. when we go visit my parents, we will probably take Rhett and Brody with Hub and Jazzy.




kady05 said:


> There's a reason every reputable Pit Bull rescue has a "no dog park" policy.


All but one rescue that I talked to both before we got Leo and before we found Dixi has this rule....they will explain why, but it doesnt matter what kind of dog, they have this rule! I was quite pleased!


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## xellil

If folks think banning pit bulls as a breed is total discrimination, why isn't it the same to say no pit bulls should go to a dog park? That seems very hypocritical.

The pit bulls at my dog park are extremely sweet dogs and love to interact. It would be shameful if they couldn't come there, just because of their breed.

And no one would blame them if they got into a fight - everyone knows their disposition. 

I am not a pit bull owner but I think it's very unfair to the breed to say no pit bull should ever be allowed into a dog park.


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## Caty M

Should large sighthounds also not be allowed in? They have a very high prey drive.


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## kady05

xellil said:


> If folks think banning pit bulls as a breed is total discrimination, why isn't it the same to say no pit bulls should go to a dog park? That seems very hypocritical.
> 
> The pit bulls at my dog park are extremely sweet dogs and love to interact. It would be shameful if they couldn't come there, just because of their breed.
> 
> And no one would blame them if they got into a fight - everyone knows their disposition.
> 
> I am not a pit bull owner but I think it's very unfair to the breed to say no pit bull should ever be allowed into a dog park.


Well, you can read these two links from two of the biggest Pit Bull rescues in the country:

Pit Bull Rescue Central

http://www.badrap.org/rescue/dogpark.html

for more info. Or just google "Pit Bulls and dog parks" It's not about banning Pit Bulls in dog parks (although I would have NO problem with that), it's about educating owners to not subject their dogs to places like dog parks, setting them up to fail, basically.


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## kady05

Caty M said:


> Should large sighthounds also not be allowed in? They have a very high prey drive.


There's actually a link on Bad Rap's page to a large Greyhound rescue about this: Greyhound Companions of New Mexico - Behavior Adoption Rescue


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## Scarlett_O'

xellil said:


> If folks think banning pit bulls as a breed is total discrimination, why isn't it the same to say no pit bulls should go to a dog park? That seems very hypocritical.
> 
> The pit bulls at my dog park are extremely sweet dogs and love to interact. It would be shameful if they couldn't come there, just because of their breed.
> 
> And no one would blame them if they got into a fight - everyone knows their disposition.
> 
> I am not a pit bull owner but I think it's very unfair to the breed to say no pit bull should ever be allowed into a dog park.


For me its less "No Bully breeds" and more people who rescue should know better then to bring rescued dogs in when who knows what will set them off!:wink: 
(But then again thats just me!:smile


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## xellil

There are some dogs that come into our dog park that shouldn't be there - a couple are some kind of bulldog mix, one is a rottweiler, ond GSD, and one is a beagle. None are pit bulls - my problem is that the city doesn't ban people when complaints come to them about their dogs causing problems in the park to the point when they show up everyone else leaves. 

People who buy from a breeder should also know better than to come to the dog park when who knows what will set their dogs off. Just because a dog isn't a rescue doesn't mean it's automatically good to go in a dog park. Two of the worst dogs in our dog park are not rescue dogs.


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## magicre

wow.

i'm real glad i don't take my dogs to a dog park.

i never realised how irritating small dogs are to big dog owners....

because large dogs NEVER rush a small dog....

and obviously, there is no place for a medium dog. 

maybe we should only build dog parks for breed specific.....

ill behaved dogs and their owners come in all different shapes, sizes, and breeds.


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## GoingPostal

xellil said:


> If folks think banning pit bulls as a breed is total discrimination, why isn't it the same to say no pit bulls should go to a dog park? That seems very hypocritical.


Would it be hypocritical to not allow greyhounds to play at a bunny park? Or let some terriers go play in the rat cage at the pet store? Pit bulls were bred and created to FIGHT other dogs, it's not rocket science that they are not a good dog park breed. I have three, and I wouldn't bring the dog friendliest one to play with my families dogs, much less a bunch of strange ones I don't know, you really just never know what's going to set a dog off, overexcitement, toys, someone offends someone else and they take to a whole different level than most dogs and can cause an immense amount of damage in a short amount of time. Add to that any fool that takes their little pibble wibble to a dog park probably has never seen or broken up a fight, doesn't have a breakstick on hand and you are really asking for problems, with multiple dogs and a bunch of idiots standing around yelling instead of doing anything useful. My dogs are carefully managed and there's still times where I have to step in before something escalates and usually the only warning is a very low growl or a lip curl, something that would be completely missed if I wasn't on top of them. My male was very dog friendly up until about 2 years old and now he hates strange dogs, a very common situation with this breed and not something you want to find out when he's eating some strangers dog at the dog park. Sure some pit bulls are probably fine, but the majority are not and I've heard far too many horror stories of fools who thought they could socialize or train out genetics and are completely shocked that their dog got in a fight and injured another, or people who are kicking, bashing, spraying chemicals at their dogs, all because they didn't think THEIR dog would get in a fight and weren't prepared for it. Then a dog gets dumped or put down for being a dog, you've got a ton of people who just saw a pit bull "snap", maybe another preventable news blurb to hurt the breed, people screaming for BSL, etc. NO DOG PARKS!


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## hmbutler

I have a feeling this thread is about to get ugly! I predict a lock symbol in the next 12-24 hrs...


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## Caty M

Umm.. my neighbor has a pit bull that is twelve years old and has NEVER had a problem. I take her there all the time. It depends on the individual dog. Many small breeds have dog aggression commonly.. bulldogs.. and yes, pitties. KNOW YOUR DOG, take precaution if it's a breed known to have DA.. to ban every single bully breed would be pretty retarded, if they ban them from certain places they may as well ban them from ownership, the simple acts of banning is going to affect people's opinion on the dogs.. "If they aren't allowed in dog parks, obviously they must be super aggressive, crazy killing machines!"


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## kady05

Caty M said:


> Umm.. my neighbor has a pit bull that is twelve years old and has NEVER had a problem. I take her there all the time. It depends on the individual dog. Many small breeds have dog aggression commonly.. bulldogs.. and yes, pitties. KNOW YOUR DOG, take precaution if it's a breed known to have DA.. to ban every single bully breed would be pretty retarded, if they ban them from certain places they may as well ban them from ownership, the simple acts of banning is going to affect people's opinion on the dogs.. "If they aren't allowed in dog parks, obviously they must be super aggressive, crazy killing machines!"


Your friends dog is an exception, not a rule.

No one is saying to outright ban them from dog parks. I posted links from two very reputable sources who both state that owners shouldn't put their dogs at risk by taking them to places like dog parks. Whether people want to admit it or not, if one of my dogs gets jumped by say, a Lab, and bites the Lab to defend itself, guess which dog is going to get the blame by 99% of the public? We had an incident at a local park last year where a Pit Bull and another dog got into it.. the other dogs owner was able to separate the dogs and THREW THE PIT BULL INTO THE RIVER that was next to the park. Luckily, the Pit Bulls owner was able to save it. 

I refuse to risk my dogs safety by throwing them into a mix of strange dogs, most of whom are rude and have NO clue how to properly interact with other dogs and are owned by people who have no idea about dog behavior, or how to break up a fight. I will always try to educate other Bully breed owners to do the same with their dogs.


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## magicre

oh, jeez, let's leave pits out of this.....
they do not have a corner of the market on being ill behaved.


i have met ill behaved dogs of many breeds....

it won't get ugly from me. i said my piece.

i now realise how big dog owners feel about my dogs.....good that we don't go to dog parks....wouldn't want to face the wrath of big dog owners because i have a morsel at the park.


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## Liz

Some people have amazing and huge dog parks and i am glad for them. We locally have a couple of nice dog parks. We avoid them like the plague. I have large and small dogs and really don't trust other people's animals. I try to set my dogs up to suceed in their dog to dog and dog to people interactions. I feel that setting them loose in a park where I don't knwo the sensitivity of other dogs is setting them up for failure or worse - injury. I work too hard to socialize and train them to let a bad incident ruin that. We do however set up playdates with dogs I know in my home or the other owner's home. My guys tend to do best with other herding or working breeds and they adore tiny dogs but I don't let them play too much with really itty bitty dogs because I worry about unintentionally trampling the little one or a hard paw swipe causing injury. I agree with neither rescue or breeder dogs being the issue but rather knowing your dog and whether he can really get along with ANYONE. Most dogs will react to another personality or breed somewhere along the line and I don't want to take that chance. JMHOhwell:


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## whiteleo

I think the whole point being about "rescues" as I can attest to as I have 3 dogs all from the same breeder, and 2 are rescues. Rescues, usually didn't get the proper socialization skills when they were puppies during that MOST important time in their life when they learn bite inhibition and how to play and interact with other dogs. My female who I have had since she was 9 weeks old, got to go to puppy kindergarten, and classes beyond that, she is very social, and plays well with other dogs, even goes to day care. Leo who I got off Craigslist at 11 months old, who was horribly abused by boys (we were his 3rd owners) didn't get so lucky as no ones took him to classes, they just thought they would throw him into the dog park and let him learn socialization skills on his own. He is was a very fearful dog with no confidence. You don't want dogs like that at the dog park. I WON'T TAKE ANY OF MY DOGS TO THE DOG PARKS.....


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## catahoulamom

Magicre, my Topher would love to play with Malia and Bubba. He loves small dogs.  Finnigan would probably play with Malia (if she was up for it), but he's prejudice against smushed faced dogs. Rambo, my pit bull, will play with anybody. He grew up in a house with 3 other pit bulls and about 10 chihuahuas (NOT.MY.HOUSE. lol)

I am 100% confident in Rambo's ability to socialize with other dogs. He is over two years old, which is when so many pit owners say their dogs "change" and become either dog tolerant or dog aggressive. I understand that it is in their "genetics" to be dog aggressive, but I also know for a fact that not all pit bulls will be dog aggressive (some people say it's an exception to the rule, I don't really think it's that rare). I honestly think a lot of pit bulls become aggressive (or are labeled as aggressive) from the "firm hand" their owners handle them with. I've read a lot that even some very responsible, generally "good" pit bull owners think it's okay to hit their dogs, etc. I do agree with the fact that you are taking a risk of your dog being blamed for an "attack" if your pit bull had to defend itself from another dog. 

That being said, (and back to topic), I do not take my dogs to dog parks. Ever. I used to, but in Miami, I'd say about 80% of dog owners shouldn't own dogs. It's baffling how incredibly irresponsible these people are - I once, way back when, encountered a couple who had their female dog in heat in the park. The dog was three. THEY DIDN'T KNOW WHAT A "HEAT" WAS. I do not go to parks because 1, I have other ways to socialize my dogs that are more supervised and safe 2, Miami dog parks are small (I'm talking TINY, there shouldn't be more than 4 dogs in there at a time, there's often 12+).

I am happy for people who have these huge beautiful dog parks and can use them responsibly. There are risks when going to the dog park, there are also risks when going to the dog beach. My catahoulas are not a good candidate for the dog park, so I don't go.


----------



## magicre

Julie said:


> Magicre, my Topher would love to play with Malia and Bubba. He loves small dogs.  Finnigan would probably play with Malia (if she was up for it), but he's prejudice against smushed faced dogs. Rambo, my pit bull, will play with anybody. He grew up in a house with 3 other pit bulls and about 10 chihuahuas (NOT.MY.HOUSE. lol)
> 
> I am 100% confident in Rambo's ability to socialize with other dogs. He is over two years old, which is when so many pit owners say their dogs "change" and become either dog tolerant or dog aggressive. I understand that it is in their "genetics" to be dog aggressive, but I also know for a fact that not all pit bulls will be dog aggressive (some people say it's an exception to the rule, I don't really think it's that rare). I honestly think a lot of pit bulls become aggressive (or are labeled as aggressive) from the "firm hand" their owners handle them with. I've read a lot that even some very responsible, generally "good" pit bull owners think it's okay to hit their dogs, etc. I do agree with the fact that you are taking a risk of your dog being blamed for an "attack" if your pit bull had to defend itself from another dog.
> 
> That being said, (and back to topic), I do not take my dogs to dog parks. Ever. I used to, but in Miami, I'd say about 80% of dog owners shouldn't own dogs. It's baffling how incredibly irresponsible these people are - I once, way back when, encountered a couple who had their female dog in heat in the park. The dog was three. THEY DIDN'T KNOW WHAT A "HEAT" WAS. I do not go to parks because 1, I have other ways to socialize my dogs that are more supervised and safe 2, Miami dog parks are small (I'm talking TINY, there shouldn't be more than 4 dogs in there at a time, there's often 12+).
> 
> I am happy for people who have these huge beautiful dog parks and can use them responsibly. There are risks when going to the dog park, there are also risks when going to the dog beach. My catahoulas are not a good candidate for the dog park, so I don't go.


my pug doesn't know how to play with others, whether they are his size or not. he thinks he is a bull dog....he has been socialised with my trainer's dogs, but he's not social enough because of his poor impulse control....so he does not go to dog parks....

malia, younger, had seven acres and seven labs to play with.....she hunted, she herded...and she played about as rough as a corgi mix could play. she could roll a dog twice the size of herself.

but now she's old and around other dogs, cranky.....they want to smell her and she doesn't want to be smelled.

and bubba...he's just a poor little pug with really bad beginnings...who, after two years of being with us, is better, but i wouldn't subject him to a dog park, especially after reading what i have read in this thread.

sorry folks, little dogs have every right to be at a dog park as a big dog.

as i said before......i've seen ill mannered dogs in all shapes, sizes, and breeds.

but don't worry. my dogs won't be there.


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## catahoulamom

Of course little dogs have every right to be there as big dogs! I do think it is a good idea to have a small and large dog size (not that it matters to me since I dont go to dog parks lol) just for the smaller delicate dogs that get overwhelmed with a bunch of big dogs stumbling around, but I know lots of small dogs that can hold their own in the big dog side. To say small dogs don't belong in a dog park is just as unfair as saying (all) bully breeds don't belong in a dog park. All depends on the dog, the dog park, and the other dogs there. And the owners, obviously.

Just to reiterate: I do not take my dogs to dog parks and never will, because the catahoulas don't really enjoy that type of enviornment, and it would be irresponsible for me to take them because if a big goofy lab came and tried to roll them over, they would not appreciate that and it's possible they would start a fight. I expect that from them... we'll avoid the dog park and go to the beach instead. I keep their slip leads on at the beach so I can grab them if need be, but they do great... they run and chase the ball and swim. It's a much more positive experience for us, and it's not crowded with dogs.


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## minnieme

I think this was a very good and valuable thread; it really opened up my eyes about dog parks. Don't get me wrong...I knew the dangers and disadvantages, I guess I just assumed that more people were responsible dog owners (I'm not sure why I thought that... just seems like if you like your dog enough to take it to a dog park, you might be a bit better than the average owner -- not true). Thankfully, once we move we won't need to rely on the dog parks as much.

But where do you guys bring your dogs to really run? I wish I knew people with huuuge yards, but I really don't. And as mentioned before, we will be moving soon -- but most of the houses we're looking at are a quarter of an acre or less -- hardly enough space for Minnie to really stretch her legs. 

In any case, let's get away from snarkiness about pitbulls or other breeds -- ultimately it DOES boil down to knowing thy dog. And since 99% of members here probably exceed expectations in terms of the "average pet owner," I don't think anyone needs to get upset. All of you are far more responsible than the general public... and truly know your dogs best. 

And thanks to this info, I'm gonna try my hardest to find safer alternatives for Minnie to run. I already try to mitigate this by taking her during non-peak hours, but I will look into other ways that could be socially gratifying for her, safer, and still offering her nice places to run.


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## Caty M

First of all- THANK YOU JULIE!!!

Minnie- I take Tess to the park often but I also go to schoolyards and soccer fields later on. I'd never go if there was people playing sports (obviously). Some are fenced, some aren't. She loves it because she can run around to her heart's content as they are so big.


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## minnieme

tuckersmom20 said:


> Tucker uses a prong collar whenever he is on leash.
> 
> We rarely ever go to dog parks, but when we have... When I unleash tuck, his prong collar comes with it.
> It's metal... There's dogs playing... Don't need problems.
> 
> I understand people who do not like prong collars, but when I've tried just about every training collar possible for him... And on his flat collar he almost collapsEd his trachea.
> He's a dumb dumb.... So he wears a prong to prevent anymore throat damage than what he has.


Sorry to backtrack..just saw this now, but have you ever tried the gentle leader or the easy walk harness? I personally love the harness more than the gentle leader (which is more of a halter if you haven't seen them), because it's easier to acclimate to. I got Minnie the gentle leader and she couldn't focus at all -- she just wanted it off her face. But with the harness, she was a pro and we didn't have to worry about her pulling me all over or tracheal collapse.  She is a big girl, but that thing has been a lifesaver for us......and I feel it's more humane.

Just a thought!


----------



## minnieme

Caty M said:


> Minnie- I take Tess to the park often but I also go to schoolyards and soccer fields later on. I'd never go if there was people playing sports (obviously). Some are fenced, some aren't. She loves it because she can run around to her heart's content as they are so big.


Good ideas...thanks! Though I'd worry about her getting caught being off-leash where she wasn't supposed to be -- they are fairly strict about that here (and rightfully so, since as reiterated throughout this thread, a lot of dog owners are serious idiots). Minnie is probably a bit easier to spot than Tess! :wink: But that's a great idea... and we'll see how it works!


----------



## Dude and Bucks Mamma

xellil said:


> My Doberman loves the dog park. He's never gotten any diseases and it's really the only place he can interact with alot of dogs, which he loves to do even though he's pretty awkward at social relationships. It's good for him.
> 
> There are several people that bring pit bulls there, and they are all really sweet dogs. One of them tries to crawl in my lap if I sit down - I wish I could take her home.
> 
> Of course there are some knuckleheads. There would be knuckleheads anywhere. But there aren't alot of people there - if someone comes in with an aggressive dog, or a dog in heat, all the regular folks just get their dogs and move to the other side. It gets the point across. Bad owners aren't really tolerated, although I think people stand around and talk too much I guess that's not a horrible thing.
> 
> People who come with prong collars are usually just ignorant, and once it is explained to them that the collar can hurt another dog, they take it off and don't do it again. It's difficult sometimes for people to totally give up control of their dog. Mentally, you think of all the horrible things that can happen the first time you take off the leash and let him go.
> 
> Man, I would love it if my dog park had a pond. That looks so fun.


Our park is like this too. We have 2. One is a smaller park for the dogs to play and interact with each other. The other is 20 acres fenced in and full of hiking trails. It is for hiking but it is also a designated dog park. They fenced it in so that if a dog gets lost, he can't go anywhere. It's amazing. Those who are there often know who their dogs do and don't get along with and everyone tends to separate into groups based on that fact. There is a visible effort from people to keep their dogs away from those it might not be too fond of. We don't have a huge problem with people bringing in unruly dogs. 



Caty M said:


> I do and I don't like them. I do go nearly every day. Tess is quite timid at the park but she is getting better. I simply don't have friends with dogs that are well behaved so that isn't an option for socializing.. I do take her to other parks and the pet store though, too. I've seen people bring their bitch IN HEAT to the park.. Tess being timid also gets picked on sometimes and I'm sorry but if my dog was harassing another dog I'd be right in there stopping it. I hate when people mistake aggressive behavior for 'oh he's just playing!'..
> 
> I also HATE HATE HATE people who's dogs are not under voice command. I worked with Tess (a sighthound!!) so much to have a reliable recall. If an Iggy can learn a recall, any dog can. If I tell my dog to stop and come, they do.
> 
> Prob the #1 pet peeve.. is people taking their dogs on long leashes. Like 25-50 feet. Their dog runs around tripping people and their dogs. If your dog cannot be trusted offleash in a fenced area, it should not be there. Tess's leg got wrapped around a rope and her being an iggy I am lucky that it didn't break.
> 
> Young kids are annoying too.. being an offleash park you do expect a certain amount of jumping/wrestling etc.. so if a dog playing with another dog runs into your kid and knocks it over, it's no one's fault but your own for bringing a young kid there. That being said I hate when people are ignoring their golden retriever who's mauling me and jumping all over me when he was just playing in the river and mud (yep, that's happened).. all I got out of them was "molly.. please stop jumping :sad:" with no effect.


We take Buck on a long leash. He is a stubborn boy who isn't so good at coming when called. I think the difference between me and most who bring their dogs on a long line is that I don't just tie him to something and let him play. I watch him and reel him in if another dog wants to play with him so no one gets tangled. Once he gets better at recall, the long line won't be needed. I want him to be able to socialize and learn how to interact better with other dogs (he can be kind of a bulldozer) but that can't happen unless he is WITH other dogs. And to be honest, I don't believe that just because his recall is good at home or in the cove where there are limited distractions, it doesn't mean that he will listen when there are so many other "friends" around.



tuckersmom20 said:


> Tucker uses a prong collar whenever he is on leash.
> 
> We rarely ever go to dog parks, but when we have... When I unleash tuck, his prong collar comes with it.
> It's metal... There's dogs playing... Don't need problems.
> 
> I understand people who do not like prong collars, but when I've tried just about every training collar possible for him... And on his flat collar he almost collapsEd his trachea.
> He's a dumb dumb.... So he wears a prong to prevent anymore throat damage than what he has.


I don't understand why people hate prong collars. They are a GREAT training tool. If it wasn't for a prong collar, I wouldn't have such a great on and off leash dog. When used properly, they can take care of pulling issues with most dogs. When Dude went through his rebellious stage around a year old, we used a prong collar for a few weeks. During that time, I created a great on and off leash dog. For Dude, I haven't needed one for about 7 years now. I don't have one for Buck but I might need one soon. I am using a makeshift halter for now that is helping a lot. 

What I do understand is hating those who don't use them properly. We are going to the dog park today and there is always one dog with a prong collar. Never the same dog, but I keep my boys away from prong dogs. Prong collars in the wrong hands can be just as detrimental as they can be beneficial.


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## Dude and Bucks Mamma

Scarlett_O' said:


> EXACTLY to these two! I took the boys to one in late May, Rhett was only 3.5 months old and we where meeting Leo for the first time....Leo was over run by this idiot's dogs...he had 3...one, a IN HEAT female that he kept on a 4' leash next to him, and then 2 in tact males! Both the males jumped on Leo when he would even look at the guy and the female, Leo LOVES men....he was just trying to say hi!:frown: But needless to say I kept my leash doubled and in my hand at all times in case they attacked Rhett or Brody...the guy left about 7 min after we got there(we had gone into the empty little dog area with all 3 boys just to be on the safe side...but still even that only had a 2' fence!)
> 
> Ill probably never go back to one....other then the beach down in So. Cal. when we go visit my parents, we will probably take Rhett and Brody with Hub and Jazzy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All but one rescue that I talked to both before we got Leo and before we found Dixi has this rule....they will explain why, but it doesnt matter what kind of dog, they have this rule! I was quite pleased!


I LOVE that beach! Best dog beach ever. Dude and I used to go there all the time. 

Anyhow, IMO part of being a responsible dog owner is:

1) Not taking out of control/in heat intact dogs to dog parks and 
2) Removing yourself and your dog(s) from the situation when something like your experience happened. We don't have a lot of friends with dogs and I want Buck to know how to behave around other dogs, strange or not. When the occasional irresponsible dog owner does show up, most of us leash our dogs and leave. It might be a pain in the ass to do it, but because we can be so "harsh" on those kinds of people, they tend to not come back.



magicre said:


> my pug doesn't know how to play with others, whether they are his size or not. he thinks he is a bull dog....he has been socialised with my trainer's dogs, but he's not social enough because of his poor impulse control....so he does not go to dog parks....
> 
> malia, younger, had seven acres and seven labs to play with.....she hunted, she herded...and she played about as rough as a corgi mix could play. she could roll a dog twice the size of herself.
> 
> but now she's old and around other dogs, cranky.....they want to smell her and she doesn't want to be smelled.
> 
> and bubba...he's just a poor little pug with really bad beginnings...who, after two years of being with us, is better, but i wouldn't subject him to a dog park, especially after reading what i have read in this thread.
> 
> sorry folks, little dogs have every right to be at a dog park as a big dog.
> 
> as i said before......i've seen ill mannered dogs in all shapes, sizes, and breeds.
> 
> but don't worry. my dogs won't be there.


Re, I don't think it's so much an issue of little dogs being at the dog park but a matter of how much damage a big dog could do to a little dog. I agree with those who say that, in a size split dog park, the little dogs have no business being on the big dog side. There are separate sides for a reason. A big dog trying to play with a little dog could easily hurt it. 

From what I am understanding, the pet peeve is when a little dog owner ventures over to the large dog side and gets upset with the large dogs for playing too roughly. I would send the little dog back over to the little dog side too. 



magicre said:


> my pug doesn't know how to play with others, whether they are his size or not. he thinks he is a bull dog....he has been socialised with my trainer's dogs, but he's not social enough because of his poor impulse control....so he does not go to dog parks....
> 
> malia, younger, had seven acres and seven labs to play with.....she hunted, she herded...and she played about as rough as a corgi mix could play. she could roll a dog twice the size of herself.
> 
> but now she's old and around other dogs, cranky.....they want to smell her and she doesn't want to be smelled.
> 
> and bubba...he's just a poor little pug with really bad beginnings...who, after two years of being with us, is better, but i wouldn't subject him to a dog park, especially after reading what i have read in this thread.
> 
> sorry folks, little dogs have every right to be at a dog park as a big dog.
> 
> as i said before......i've seen ill mannered dogs in all shapes, sizes, and breeds.
> 
> but don't worry. my dogs won't be there.


Re, I don't think it is so much a matter of little dogs simply being there, but of little dog owners thinking their little dogs should be able to be on the big dog side when their dog can't actually handle it. I am all for a little dog who can handle himself being on the big dog side, but when the owner keeps stopping the big dogs from playing, the little dog owner needs to go back to the little dog side.


As a final note, I, personally, would never blame a pit bull for a spat between dogs. It happens. Even Dude and Buck still get into it a little because Buck is still learning when to give it a rest. They live in the same house, sleep on the same bed, everything is done together, but their "relationship" isn't perfect. I love my husband and he loves me but we still get into arguments here and there. Why should we expect dogs to get along with everyone all the time?

I think dog parks can be a great environment for dogs to play in as long as everyone there is responsible for their dogs' actions and keep a close watch on them. Going to dog parks isn't just about watching other dogs for aggression or over excitedness. You have to watch their owners too. If their owners aren't paying close enough attention to their dogs, SAY SOMETHING! Part of the reason some of you have bad experiences at dog parks is because people allow others to let their dogs be aggressive or over excited. No, we can't control everyone, but by making it known that you disapprove will at least get it into their heads and if enough people say something to them, they will either stop coming to the dog park or change the way they control their dogs.


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## xellil

GoingPostal said:


> Would it be hypocritical to not allow greyhounds to play at a bunny park? Or let some terriers go play in the rat cage at the pet store? Pit bulls were bred and created to FIGHT other dogs, it's not rocket science that they are not a good dog park breed.


I'll tell the owners of the three pit bulls that are at our dog park every day and never have any issues that you said they shouldn't be there.


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## kady05

xellil said:


> I'll tell the owners of the three pit bulls that are at our dog park every day and never have any issues that you said they shouldn't be there.


Good, maybe they'll do some reading into it and avoid setting their dogs up for failure down the line


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## minnieme

Dude and Bucks Mamma said:


> You have to watch their owners too. If their owners aren't paying close enough attention to their dogs, SAY SOMETHING! Part of the reason some of you have bad experiences at dog parks is because people allow others to let their dogs be aggressive or over excited. No, we can't control everyone, but by making it known that you disapprove will at least get it into their heads and if enough people say something to them, they will either stop coming to the dog park or change the way they control their dogs.


I agree with this although it can be very difficult to confront a person about their dog... since many would take offense like it were their child -- I know I would and have (not in respect to dog parks, but when people kept telling me how emaciated Minnie was). It can be a very sensitive subject so I think knowing how to approach it with kindness and tact is the only option. I get that a lot of people LOVE their dogs but are just uneducated about canine behavior. Sucks that we can't change everyone and encourage the general population to take an avid interest in their own dogs, but it would be helpful if people knew that others were discontent with their dog's actions.

I can attest to it being hard though.....I'm still trying to figure out how to say NO to my friend who constantly wants to have play dates with Minnie and her dog.....when her dog is FAR too aggressive. It sucks.... no one wants to hear their dog is a "problem child." But I think a lot of stellar points have been reiterated here.... don't set your dog up to fail if you have reservations about dog parks.

We're fortunate to have huge ones, so I'll probably still take my chances on occasion -- but Minnie is also a very good dog (for the most part :wink: ).


----------



## xellil

minnieme said:


> Sorry to backtrack..just saw this now, but have you ever tried the gentle leader or the easy walk harness? I personally love the harness more than the gentle leader (which is more of a halter if you haven't seen them), because it's easier to acclimate to. I got Minnie the gentle leader and she couldn't focus at all -- she just wanted it off her face. But with the harness, she was a pro and we didn't have to worry about her pulling me all over or tracheal collapse.  She is a big girl, but that thing has been a lifesaver for us......and I feel it's more humane.
> 
> Just a thought!


Prong collars are not inherently inhumane. That is a misperception. And harnesses don't work on all dogs, even "no pull" harnesses. 

Prong collars with rounded tips and/or rubber covers, used properly, are much more humane than letting a dog drag you all over the place. NOT the cheap collars you buy at local pet stores. 

My dog injured his face on a gentle leader. A harness of whatever kind was a challenge to him to pull as hard as possible. I spent more time wallering around in the road than actually walking. Life was horrible. My dog was hypersensitive and anything would set him off. It was difficult to even leave the yard. 

the prong collar was the miracle that helped him. If you use it properly, there is no pulling and gagging, coughing, dragging, etc etc. He no longer uses any leash or collar except when we go to PetSmart or the vet where a leash is required. 

I know there are people here who will try to make others feel awful for using them, like they are being cruel to their dog. I was that way for six long months - I would never use that horrible tool on MY dog! And anyone who used them was just an awful dog owner. But that was out of ignorance, not knowledge. Tools, properly used, will HELP your dog, not hurt him.


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## xellil

It's always the owners. People often don't understand their own dogs. I am not a dog language expert but sometimes it's amazing to me how people don't see, especially when dogs are playing, that sometimes the little ones squealing on the bottom of the pile aren't having a good time.


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## minnieme

xellil said:


> the prong collar was the miracle that helped him. If you use it properly, there is no pulling and gagging, coughing, dragging, etc etc. He no longer uses any leash or collar except when we go to PetSmart or the vet where a leash is required.
> 
> I know there are people here who will try to make others feel awful for using them, like they are being cruel to their dog. I was that way for six long months - I would never use that horrible tool on MY dog! And anyone who used them was just an awful dog owner. But that was out of ignorance, not knowledge. Tools, properly used, will HELP your dog, not hurt him.


I definitely did not mean to offend, but I think in this instance you're likely the minority -- every single time I've seen prong collars, they've been used very inappropriately. I was only trying to offer a helpful tool that has helped ENORMOUSLY with my 110 lb dog and my sister's 35 lb dog -- both of them were pullers, and both of them have flourished with this harness.

Regardless of which tool you use, I'm glad that it's rarely needed for your dogs now. I think you hit the nail on the head....it is a TRAINING tool....just like the harness is a training tool, and Minnie is already walking much better simply with a collar and leash. 

So pardon my word choice of "humane"... My intent was not to attack prong collars, only to offer up my opinion on another product. I hope no one "makes others feel awful for using them" -- I think your anger is misguided -- I was only meaning to offer an alternative.


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## xellil

i agree - I know harnesses are good for alot of dogs. No anger - but i would bet in a short time there WILL be people here trying to make others feel like they are being cruel if they use them. I apologize - I didn't mean to imply that was you, because it wasn't.


----------



## magicre

Dude and Bucks Mamma said:


> I LOVE that beach! Best dog beach ever. Dude and I used to go there all the time.
> 
> Anyhow, IMO part of being a responsible dog owner is:
> 
> 1) Not taking out of control/in heat intact dogs to dog parks and
> 2) Removing yourself and your dog(s) from the situation when something like your experience happened. We don't have a lot of friends with dogs and I want Buck to know how to behave around other dogs, strange or not. When the occasional irresponsible dog owner does show up, most of us leash our dogs and leave. It might be a pain in the ass to do it, but because we can be so "harsh" on those kinds of people, they tend to not come back.
> 
> 
> 
> Re, I don't think it's so much an issue of little dogs being at the dog park but a matter of how much damage a big dog could do to a little dog. I agree with those who say that, in a size split dog park, the little dogs have no business being on the big dog side. There are separate sides for a reason. A big dog trying to play with a little dog could easily hurt it.
> 
> From what I am understanding, the pet peeve is when a little dog owner ventures over to the large dog side and gets upset with the large dogs for playing too roughly. I would send the little dog back over to the little dog side too.
> 
> 
> 
> Re, I don't think it is so much a matter of little dogs simply being there, but of little dog owners thinking their little dogs should be able to be on the big dog side when their dog can't actually handle it. I am all for a little dog who can handle himself being on the big dog side, but when the owner keeps stopping the big dogs from playing, the little dog owner needs to go back to the little dog side.
> 
> 
> As a final note, I, personally, would never blame a pit bull for a spat between dogs. It happens. Even Dude and Buck still get into it a little because Buck is still learning when to give it a rest. They live in the same house, sleep on the same bed, everything is done together, but their "relationship" isn't perfect. I love my husband and he loves me but we still get into arguments here and there. Why should we expect dogs to get along with everyone all the time?
> 
> I think dog parks can be a great environment for dogs to play in as long as everyone there is responsible for their dogs' actions and keep a close watch on them. Going to dog parks isn't just about watching other dogs for aggression or over excitedness. You have to watch their owners too. If their owners aren't paying close enough attention to their dogs, SAY SOMETHING! Part of the reason some of you have bad experiences at dog parks is because people allow others to let their dogs be aggressive or over excited. No, we can't control everyone, but by making it known that you disapprove will at least get it into their heads and if enough people say something to them, they will either stop coming to the dog park or change the way they control their dogs.


i appreciate what you're saying, i do.

i do not think i misread earlier posts that talk about little dogs as if they are an annoyance that should just stay home.

i've experienced that at dog parks....another reason not to go...

but, honestly, i've got the flu and i'm feeling snarky and this thread just rubbed me the wrong way.

as i've stated, ill mannered dogs come in all sizes, shapes and breeds.

i'm tired of hearing about pit bulls being the only danger to society and little dogs who activate big dogs' prey drive and keep them out of the park because g'd forbid, the little dog might get hurt....i think that's a crock....

i've seen big dogs, plenty of them treat dogs in a size appropriate way....and i've seen little dogs riding big dogs...

i've also seen little dogs hurt big dogs and the opposite.

it's called manners. it matters not what breed or size they are.

and, yes....big dogs should be on one side, little on the other...

unfortunately, not all dog parks are divided. then what?

ok. back to bed before i get myself into trouble.


----------



## lauren43

Scarlett_O' said:


> For me its less "No Bully breeds" and more people who rescue should know better then to bring rescued dogs in when who knows what will set them off!:wink:
> (But then again thats just me!:smile


I have to say this comment kinda rubs me the wrong way and I am sure that is not how you intended it. This is like saying rescue dogs are completely unpredictable. While I realize there is an adjustment period when you take in a dog from an unknown background, I do believe in time you get to 'know thy dog'. You know what they can and can not handle. I do not/would not trust a dog from a breeder any more than I trust a dog from a rescue IMO.



kady05 said:


> Your friends dog is an exception, not a rule.
> 
> No one is saying to outright ban them from dog parks. I posted links from two very reputable sources who both state that owners shouldn't put their dogs at risk by taking them to places like dog parks. Whether people want to admit it or not, if one of my dogs gets jumped by say, a Lab, and bites the Lab to defend itself, guess which dog is going to get the blame by 99% of the public? We had an incident at a local park last year where a Pit Bull and another dog got into it.. the other dogs owner was able to separate the dogs and THREW THE PIT BULL INTO THE RIVER that was next to the park. Luckily, the Pit Bulls owner was able to save it.
> 
> I refuse to risk my dogs safety by throwing them into a mix of strange dogs, most of whom are rude and have NO clue how to properly interact with other dogs and are owned by people who have no idea about dog behavior, or how to break up a fight. I will always try to educate other Bully breed owners to do the same with their dogs.


Kady I find your statements rather hypocritical...



whiteleo said:


> I think the whole point being about "rescues" as I can attest to as I have 3 dogs all from the same breeder, and 2 are rescues. Rescues, usually didn't get the proper socialization skills when they were puppies during that MOST important time in their life when they learn bite inhibition and how to play and interact with other dogs. My female who I have had since she was 9 weeks old, got to go to puppy kindergarten, and classes beyond that, she is very social, and plays well with other dogs, even goes to day care. Leo who I got off Craigslist at 11 months old, who was horribly abused by boys (we were his 3rd owners) didn't get so lucky as no ones took him to classes, they just thought they would throw him into the dog park and let him learn socialization skills on his own. He is was a very fearful dog with no confidence. You don't want dogs like that at the dog park. I WON'T TAKE ANY OF MY DOGS TO THE DOG PARKS.....


I do not believe for a minute that dog parks were the only cause of his fear. As you said he had abusive owners and was not socialized as a pup. But on the other hand I have seen and met many dogs that were very unlikely to have recieved proper socializing at a young age and are still amazing with other dogs. And I have also seen well socialized dogs have a difficult time with other dogs. Dogs are individuals, each will respond differently to different care. Some dogs are just fearful by nature and vice versa.


----------



## nikkiluvsu15

Again, I love my dog park. However, I know that the "type" of dog park I have is few and far between.

My dog park isn't divided - but, then again it is 14 acres so like I said earlier it really isn't *that* hard to "separate" dogs if you want to. Another thing that I think makes it "better" is the fact that it is a private dog park.

We've come across three snarky dogs. 2 were medium-sized dogs (same size as Harleigh) and 1 was a old terrier mix (cute as can be). I agree that snarky dogs come in all breeds and sizes. Harleigh, for one, absolutely LOVES small dogs. It took her a little while to figure out why they would get scared when she ran up to them with her wiggling butt, but now she play bows and then goes up to them more slowly. Even though she is most times gentle I do worry that she'll accidentally hurt them when she gets in her "butt tucking" groove. LOL

Harleigh loved this little guy, so did the Golden Retriever (I forgot her name). Anyways, he was so cute!!!

















And just because... this is what my mom did our whole visit to the park. Meanwhile I was running after Harleigh as she went around the 14-acre park for hours. LOL









However, I'm not going to convince any of those that believe dog parks are terrible are not so bad and I won't be convinced that dog parks are absolutely terrible. We'll just be running around in circles. :tongue: (I don't even know if those sentences make sense!).

And for those who love the dog park I go to... if your ever in North Florida, hit me up :wink: lol


----------



## kady05

lauren43 said:


> Kady I find your statements rather hypocritical...


Okay, how so?


----------



## maplewood

magicre said:


> my pug doesn't know how to play with others, whether they are his size or not. he thinks he is a bull dog....he has been socialised with my trainer's dogs, but he's not social enough because of his poor impulse control....so he does not go to dog parks....
> 
> malia, younger, had seven acres and seven labs to play with.....she hunted, she herded...and she played about as rough as a corgi mix could play. she could roll a dog twice the size of herself.
> 
> but now she's old and around other dogs, cranky.....they want to smell her and she doesn't want to be smelled.
> 
> and bubba...he's just a poor little pug with really bad beginnings...who, after two years of being with us, is better, but i wouldn't subject him to a dog park, especially after reading what i have read in this thread.
> 
> sorry folks, little dogs have every right to be at a dog park as a big dog.
> 
> as i said before......i've seen ill mannered dogs in all shapes, sizes, and breeds.
> but don't worry. my dogs won't be there.


Atleast you have the intteligence to NOT take your dog's to the dog park if they do not belong there. 

When we first moved here I found out we had a dog park in town I thought "Wow, awesome! This is going to be so much fun" Oh the joy of ignorance. 

Case in point 1. Polly my wonderful sweet baby that would never harm a flea was at the dog park. We were there at an "off" time to meet some friends. After about a half hour of the dog's running around having a grand ole time an older lady showed up with a Cocker. When she arrived there was 3 Mastiffs, a Saint, a GSD and a mix or two, all large or giant breeds. I was chatting with a friend and Polly girl was sitting next me getting an ear rub, when this Cocker runs up to her and attacks. Seriously, no provacation, no warning nothing. After I got the beast off her the owner walks up and says to me "Sorry he doesn't like big dogs" Ya know what they say about a redheads temper? Well in my case it's true, I exploded on the lady.

Case 2: We had a our older GSD at the park, once again meeting friends in an "off" time. There was nobody there when we arrived, if ther had been we would never have gotten out of the car. After a bit a gal with a lab and a rottie showed up. Both unaltered boys decided they wanted to hump my altered boy. I politely asked the woman to control her dogs while I got mine out of the gate, her response was a nasty look and to say "they're just puppies playing" As I'm trying to get my by now snarling 100lbs of Shepherd out the gate(yes he picked up on my anxiety and responded in like) both her dog's won't leave us alone, in my quest to prevent a dog fight and leave I Kicked one of her dogs and tossed the other. Now she's chasing me down the sidewalk screaming at me to "keep your F*ing hands off my dogs" The cops were called, ugly situation.

I don't even go when nobosy else is there. Yes I trust my dogs however I can not control other dogs their owners. I have personally seen and heard of to many bad things happening at the dog parks for me to feel comfortable putting my dogs in that situation ever again. Not to mention, most socialization takes place between 6-16 weeks of age. If your dog doesn't learn to interact during that time the chances are slim that he wll later in life.


----------



## BrownieM

magicre said:


> wow.
> 
> i'm real glad i don't take my dogs to a dog park.
> *
> i never realised how irritating small dogs are to big dog owners....*
> 
> because large dogs NEVER rush a small dog....
> 
> and obviously, there is no place for a medium dog.
> 
> maybe we should only build dog parks for breed specific.....
> 
> ill behaved dogs and their owners come in all different shapes, sizes, and breeds.


Millie's best friend at the dog park is this little beagle. Little dogs don't bother me one bit. I only get irritated when a small dog owner is b*tching because the large dogs won't leave her small dog alone. Why not go try the other area? Be proactive, perhaps? There is a reason why a park would decide to have a small dog area. That would be - because a very small dog can be injured by a very large dog even during play. If it's not working out, try something else! I just don't get it. IMO, it's not about being ill behaved. Dogs interact situationally. If a small dog is not enjoying itself in an all dog area full of big dogs, why walk around holding your dog, yell at all the big dogs, and refuse to go to the small dog area???????????

On the same token, if I come to the dog park, and the all dog area is only filled with tiny dogs, guess what? I am probably going to leave because that situation is not favorable for my dogs.

I like to see small dog owners going to the all dog area and mixing it up if their dog interacts well with large dogs. But the tiny, obviously BABIED, chinese crested that squeals, tucks its tail and shows its teeth any time a large dog approaches it? Well, I don't want to hear that owner b*tching when they won't go at least try out the small dog area....


----------



## xellil

whiteleo said:


> I think the whole point being about "rescues" as I can attest to as I have 3 dogs all from the same breeder, and 2 are rescues. Rescues, usually didn't get the proper socialization skills when they were puppies during that MOST important time in their life when they learn bite inhibition and how to play and interact with other dogs.


That is your experience. Really, the implication that all rescue dogs are born in a ditch and never got a chance to play with siblings or people is so wrong.

Many, many rescue dogs were loved and cared for as puppies. My Doberman had a great life for 6 years until his owner died of cancer. Snorkels had a bad last few years but she was socialized as a puppy. Every single Doberman I have fostered has gotten along famously with other dogs and with people

AND, of the 40-50 dogs I have picked up that people dumped on the side of the road, there was not one of them that didn't get along famously with other dogs. I have only had one dog in my life that was poorly socialized.

I am very glad you have rescue dogs - I admire anyone who takes in a homeless dog. i am surprised, though, that you believe most rescue dogs are somehow damaged goods with poor socialization skills. That happened to be your experience, but it's not been mine by any stretch of the imagination.


----------



## xellil

BrownieM said:


> Millie's best friend at the dog park is this little beagle. Little dogs don't bother me one bit. I only get irritated when a small dog owner is b*tching because the large dogs won't leave her small dog alone. Why not go try the other area?


I quit taking Snorkels to the dog park - not because of the big dogs, but because of the small ones. The big ones just gather round her and sniff her butt. Well, one big dog pees on her. It seemed like the big dogs recognized that she's old and not interested in playing. And yes, one's a poodle named Ruby who everyone there adores - great dog, great owner.

But two of the younger dogs 20 pounds or less will get a running start and knock her ass over teakettle. So she couldn't hang out with the small dogs either.

So now I take her to a neighbor with a giant yard and we pretend she's at the dog park.


----------



## Donna Little

The only dog park near me is about half the size of my own yard so it totally sucks. They have separate areas of course for small or large dogs but I would never take my dogs to the large dog area. I just feel like I'd be asking for trouble. A couple of mine probably would be defensive if they got overwhelmed and if they decided to get ugly they'd be the ones getting hurt so why chance it. Most of my dogs are super socialized and if someone brings their dogs to my house my guys barely even take the time to say hi. But I do have one that thinks he's the big sh*t (and he isn't) so he'd likely get himself beat up.
I've worked at a couple of doggie daycares though so all my babies went with me there and loved it.


----------



## minnieme

Little dogs often pose the biggest problem for Minnie too, but I have no problem with them being there (aside from the fact that it could be potentially dangerous for them). The reason I say it's a problem is because she ADORESSSSSS little dogs. My brother has a pug whom she loves....so now she just assumes that all little dogs are her BFFs. 

The other day we were just about to leave the park... I had her leashed and we were nearing the gate...when a woman comes in with her chihuahua. The chihuahua somehow slips away from her....leash dragging... barking at Minnie. Getting closer and closer. Minnie stood there, tail wagging... so excited to see this new friend. The woman shouted, "HOLD YOUR DOG! HOLD YOUR DOG! HE'LL ATACK!" At first I thought she meant she was nervous that Minnie would attack her dog. The woman finally caught up to her dog, scooped him up, and said, "I'm so sorry; he does NOT like other dogs.... I was worried he'd attack yours!"

Now THAT just boggles my mind. O_O I know all about size discrimination and it sucks.  It's hard stomaching that people might assume Minnie is vicious because she's bigger and has the potential to inflict more damage than say... a chihuahua. And it sucks that people think little dogs have no right to be in a dog park. But really, it's not all about size. I know Minnie rushes little dogs so we're always EXTREMELY careful when meeting them. 

Fortunately, the majority of the little dogs we've met can definitely hold their own and have enough sass to put Minnie in line. They make GREAT playmates for her...as she is very respectful of their bossiness and assertive nature. With that said though, it's obviously super important to be honest about your dog's personality type. I'm sure that woman with the chihuahua wanted so badly to believe that her dog could be okay with certain other dogs...but the reality of the matter is that it's a gamble. Every time we go to the dog park we are taking a gamble in terms of injury, emotional damage, etc. It's up to the owner to decide if it's worth it.


----------



## lauren43

kady05 said:


> Okay, how so?


You are perfectly ok with "come to jesus" moments with your dogs (where I am assuming you hit them or do something aversive) and you are perfectly ok with using other aversive training techniques (ie. Shock collars) on bully breeds which have been shown to cause just as many issues as they help. 

But in your opinion dog park is the worst thing in the entire world a person could subject their dog to to (esp a bully breed), priorities?


----------



## Jacksons Mom

Love both of our dog parks. Never had any big issues at all. Never heard of any diseases being spread or anything. One park I go to costs money, it's inside of a state park. The other is free but I actually like it better sometimes. I always stay on the small dog side for Jackson's safety... even though he loves big dogs, and most big dogs are friendly, I still won't risk it.

I have no complaints and Jackson always has a good time when we go and we've been going for over 2 years now.


----------



## Donna Little

I used to have a Chihuahua named Cricket that was the sweetest dog I've ever met. She LOVED other dogs, men, women and small children alike. But let her see a Rottie and she'd lose her mind. I didn't get her until she was 10 so have no idea if she had a bad experience with one in the past but she wanted to kill every one she saw. And I can assure you attacking a Rottie would not have worked out the way she thought it would've. I discovered her aversion to Rotties when I took her to my son's bodyshop. He had a Rottie and a Pitbull and Cricket said "HI" to Diesel in her most adorable way and then charged Romeo and had him running for the office. We kinda laughed about it but then I discovered she hated all of them. Strange little OCD issue I guess....


----------



## kady05

lauren43 said:


> You are perfectly ok with "come to jesus" moments with your dogs (where I am assuming you hit them or do something aversive) and you are perfectly ok with using other aversive training techniques (ie. Shock collars) on bully breeds which have been shown to cause just as many issues as they help.
> 
> But in your opinion dog park is the worst thing in the entire world a person could subject their dog to to (esp a bully breed), priorities?


How do training techniques and taking dogs to dog parks relate? That's a topic for another thread if you'd like to start it (although I feel no need to explain myself to anyone here since it's obvious how most members feel about anything other than 100% positive reinforcement), and you are free to PM me if you'd like to discuss training techniques, since that has absolutely nothing to do with this thread.

And I never said that a dog park was the worst thing in the world someone could subject their dog to LOL, nice way of putting words in my mouth  It is not just my opinion that dog parks are not a good place to take Bully breeds. As I've said numerous times (and even provided links), it is the opinion of many well respected Bully breed rescues, trainers, etc. Go on any Pit Bull forum and ask their opinion of taking their dogs to dog parks, see what happens and the opinions you get. You'll find you're in the minority if you think they're a good choice of places to take Bully breeds.


----------



## Celt

Just a tad off topic, but I think it's a cute story involving the dogpark. We were in the little dog side of the dogpark when this guy asked if we'd mind if he join us with his boxer. Now, we did wonder why, but didn't see any reason to say no. Came to find out that the boxer is afraid of "big" dogs. So here's this boxer trying to play with a pack of poms, and keep up with the "rabbitting" Iggies. It was just adorable how he would scrunch down so he could wrestle. The vision of a boxer rising up from a pack of puffballs, only to be "knocked" over and piled on again, will make me smile for a while.


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## meggels

Celt said:


> Just a tad off topic, but I think it's a cute story involving the dogpark. We were in the little dog side of the dogpark when this guy asked if we'd mind if he join us with his boxer. Now, we did wonder why, but didn't see any reason to say no. Came to find out that the boxer is afraid of "big" dogs. So here's this boxer trying to play with a pack of poms, and keep up with the "rabbitting" Iggies. It was just adorable how he would scrunch down so he could wrestle. The vision of a boxer rising up from a pack of puffballs, only to be "knocked" over and piled on again, will make me smile for a while.


That is super cute haha


----------



## CorgiPaws

magicre said:


> wow.
> 
> i'm real glad i don't take my dogs to a dog park.
> 
> i never realised how irritating small dogs are to big dog owners....
> 
> because large dogs NEVER rush a small dog....
> 
> and obviously, there is no place for a medium dog.
> 
> maybe we should only build dog parks for breed specific.....
> 
> ill behaved dogs and their owners come in all different shapes, sizes, and breeds.


Re= Really? The complaints are not little dogs at dog parks. At least, certainly not mine. I took my Corgi to dog parks, and will when I get one in the future. 

The complaint is owners of small dogs who do not USE THE SMALL DOG AREA (if there is one) and then complain about big dogs. I see it all the time, and yes, as the owner of big dogs it's really annoying to have some chihuahua owner freaking out because my dog stepped too close to their dog and isn't careful enough. 

I've seen plenty of big dogs roll little dogs, and yes that's equally frustrating and if I were in the small dog section and someone brought a big rude dog in, I'd tell them exactly what I thought of it! My statements, at least, only relate to dog parks with two sections. I will not go to dog parks that are one big area- not having dogs that are so far on one side of the size spectrum. 

For me, what it comes down to, regardless of size is KNOW THY FREAKING DOG. If your small dog doesn't do well with big dogs, and you show up to a one-area park... and there's big dogs... turn around and go home. If your big dog doesn't do good with small dogs, and you show up to a one-area park... same deal. 
I'd never take Annie to a park that had Border Collies. She likes to eat them. I'd turn around, take her home, and bring a different dog. (she shouldn't be in the small dog area, either)

As for the pit debate... I have nothing against the breed. My life is to dog-involved to have one (meaning we have a lot of dogs around a lot of the time) but I think they're great. My dogs have had a lot of positive experiences playing with pits, Annie particularly fits right in with their rough-and-tumble play style. But, I must say... I feel sad for the dog when I see it, only because if it makes any move that it was designed and programmed to do... I know it will be the pit on the chopping block, no matter whose fault it really was... and a lot of people WOULD report it- just because it's a pit.


----------



## Dude and Bucks Mamma

Dude, Buck, Nick and I spent 6 hours at the dog park we have never been to today and had a fabulous experience. It isn't a huge 14 acre park but large enough to be able to have dogs play in different groups and small enough that your dog is never out of sight. We got there at 11:30 and left at 5:45. Several pit bulls came and went and none caused problems. The 2 who caused problems were a cattle dog mix and a husky. The cattle dog mix was too excited and the husky showed signs of aggression so most of us left. 

I was actually surprised at how many intact males were there. Mine being 2 but there were a TON! One of the rules for our park is if your bitch is in heat she can't come. If a bitch in heat did show up I, along with several others there today, would tell their owner to take her home. 

I convinced 2 people to switch to raw today as well as informed a woman that her dog was indeed a wolf hybrid. He was an absolute sweetheart and is riddled with pellets from his previous owner (he had been caught in traps and had been thrown into a bin of broken glass as well) and was shy but willing to mingle with the mellower dogs. He took an immediate liking to Dude. His owner rescued him from the streets, poor guy. I have a picture I'll post in a picture thread when I get more pictures. So today was a good day. 2 more dogs will soon be raw fed (a baby boston terrier and a pit bull mix).



kady05 said:


> Good, maybe they'll do some reading into it and avoid setting their dogs up for failure down the line


As I said above, the many pit bulls at the park today were well mannered and were the ones my boys wanted to socialize with. Many of them were intact and perfectly friendly. No aggression was shown and they didn't make me nervous at all. A friendly pit bull is not the exception to the rule. You can't set up a dog for failure by taking it to the dog park if you have raised and trained it properly.



minnieme said:


> I agree with this although it can be very difficult to confront a person about their dog... since many would take offense like it were their child -- I know I would and have (not in respect to dog parks, but when people kept telling me how emaciated Minnie was). It can be a very sensitive subject so I think knowing how to approach it with kindness and tact is the only option. I get that a lot of people LOVE their dogs but are just uneducated about canine behavior. Sucks that we can't change everyone and encourage the general population to take an avid interest in their own dogs, but it would be helpful if people knew that others were discontent with their dog's actions.
> 
> I can attest to it being hard though.....I'm still trying to figure out how to say NO to my friend who constantly wants to have play dates with Minnie and her dog.....when her dog is FAR too aggressive. It sucks.... no one wants to hear their dog is a "problem child." But I think a lot of stellar points have been reiterated here.... don't set your dog up to fail if you have reservations about dog parks.
> 
> We're fortunate to have huge ones, so I'll probably still take my chances on occasion -- but Minnie is also a very good dog (for the most part :wink: ).


There is definitely a way to approach an owner. You are absolutely right. But people can't be afraid to say something. With the aggressive husky I simply said, "Hey, look, I know you love your boy just like I love mine, but he is making some of us nervous with his behavior. I know he hasn't bitten anybody, but he is growling in a way that is not simply a warning for the other dogs to leave him alone. It's an aggressive growl. Would you mind leashing him until some of the dogs have left the park?" There were around 10 dogs there. He had no issue with it. He leashed his dog so that he was under more control and that was that. We went home anyway, but I wasn't going to leave the rest there with a dog behaving like that. He was the only aggressive one we met in 6 hours. Had he not been friendly about it, sure, I would have ripped into him about his dog's behavior but he was so there was no need.



magicre said:


> i appreciate what you're saying, i do.
> 
> i do not think i misread earlier posts that talk about little dogs as if they are an annoyance that should just stay home.
> 
> i've experienced that at dog parks....another reason not to go...
> 
> but, honestly, i've got the flu and i'm feeling snarky and this thread just rubbed me the wrong way.
> 
> as i've stated, ill mannered dogs come in all sizes, shapes and breeds.
> 
> i'm tired of hearing about pit bulls being the only danger to society and little dogs who activate big dogs' prey drive and keep them out of the park because g'd forbid, the little dog might get hurt....i think that's a crock....
> 
> i've seen big dogs, plenty of them treat dogs in a size appropriate way....and i've seen little dogs riding big dogs...
> 
> i've also seen little dogs hurt big dogs and the opposite.
> 
> it's called manners. it matters not what breed or size they are.
> 
> and, yes....big dogs should be on one side, little on the other...
> 
> unfortunately, not all dog parks are divided. then what?
> 
> ok. back to bed before i get myself into trouble.


We had plenty of little dogs in with the big dogs today. All of them could handle the big dogs. The smallest ones were a 12 week old boston terrier, a dachshund, and a couple of chihuahuas. No biggie. All of the big dogs were careful and when the big dogs were playing really rough with each other, the little dog owners scooped them up into their arms until things settled down. My only issue is when people freak about the big dogs (in their own area) hurting the little dogs when they shouldn't be there if they can't handle it. In our park, Bubba and Malia could TOTALLY be on the big dog side. We had a couple of pembrokes in there today  When a park isn't divided, it isn't hard to keep dogs in separate groups if everyone there has even just decent recall. 


I'm sorry but I think the pit bull debate is just stupid. If anything shouldn't be allowed at a dog park it's huskies. Yes, I love huskies, but if I go by the pit bull logic, one husky showing aggression means they must all be bad. I'm sorry for those who have aggressive pit bulls, but that would be your fault. You can make a labrador mean just like you can make a pit bull mean. We had a blast with all of the pit and pit mixes there today. Little dogs and pit bulls mingled happily today. For a pit bull to never be allowed to play with other dogs at a dog park just because it is a pit bull is silly. Blueticks aren't known for being the best with other dogs either, but because I know I am raising Buck to be a social dog, I don't foresee any issues. If there were, they would be corrected, but he would not be condemned for it.


----------



## CorgiPaws

Dude and Bucks Mamma said:


> I'm sorry but I think the pit bull debate is just stupid. If anything shouldn't be allowed at a dog park it's huskies. Yes, I love huskies, but if I go by the pit bull logic, one husky showing aggression means they must all be bad. I'm sorry for those who have aggressive pit bulls, but that would be your fault. You can make a labrador mean just like you can make a pit bull mean. We had a blast with all of the pit and pit mixes there today. Little dogs and pit bulls mingled happily today. For a pit bull to never be allowed to play with other dogs at a dog park just because it is a pit bull is silly. Blueticks aren't known for being the best with other dogs either, but because I know I am raising Buck to be a social dog, I don't foresee any issues. If there were, they would be corrected, but he would not be condemned for it.


I think you're wrong. 
You have a hound, did you get that hound for hunting? If you did, chances are you went with a hound, and not... say... a Pomeranian... because of his natural instinct and predisposition to be a good hunting dog. But, not ALL hounds will be good hunting dogs, as you know. 

Well, pits are predisposed to DA. It is a fact of life. No, not all pits will fight other dogs, but SOME will, and it's just a breed type thing. I know people with DA Pits, and no, the owners did nothing to "make them that way" they just ARE. DA and HA are two ENTIRELY different issues... and a dog that is abused is more likely to be HA, NOT DA. 

For the most part, my dogs are all AWESOME with other dogs, but Annie is selective. Border Collies, and Aussies.... not her thing. I didn't do anything to make her that way. She just IS. Dog's temperaments are every bit nature as they are nurture. 

Now, we've already had several threads go down this road lately, and I will not tolerate another one. Go on ahead and debate on Dog Parks, but further Pit Bull debating on the matter WILL be deleted.


----------



## hmbutler

EDIT: oops never mind, stupid computer :tongue: or stupid operator... you chose haha


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## Dude and Bucks Mamma

PuppyPaws said:


> I think you're wrong.
> You have a hound, did you get that hound for hunting? If you did, chances are you went with a hound, and not... say... a Pomeranian... because of his natural instinct and predisposition to be a good hunting dog. But, not ALL hounds will be good hunting dogs, as you know.
> 
> Well, pits are predisposed to DA. It is a fact of life. No, not all pits will fight other dogs, but SOME will, and it's just a breed type thing. I know people with DA Pits, and no, the owners did nothing to "make them that way" they just ARE. DA and HA are two ENTIRELY different issues... and a dog that is abused is more likely to be HA, NOT DA.
> 
> For the most part, my dogs are all AWESOME with other dogs, but Annie is selective. Border Collies, and Aussies.... not her thing. I didn't do anything to make her that way. She just IS. Dog's temperaments are every bit nature as they are nurture.
> 
> Now, we've already had several threads go down this road lately, and I will not tolerate another one. Go on ahead and debate on Dog Parks, but further Pit Bull debating on the matter WILL be deleted.


Well, then we'll have to agree to disagree as pits have always been the breed that least worries me (from my experience). And no, we didn't get Buck for hunting. Just like I didn't get Dude for herding. This doesn't mean that Buck chases and kills small animals or Dude herds everything. Neither one do either thing.

Anyhow, I think, to be satisfied with a dog park, people need to find a good dog park with some well known regulars. As I have never been to this park we went to today (and it was much better, BY FAR, than the other one, we got all sorts of pointers on what different times of the day are like as well as days of the week. This park is full of people who are responsible for their dogs' actions and I think that those who are against dog parks haven't been fortunate enough to find a park like this one. I won't say that all dog parks are good, but a lot are. When we are stationed elsewhere, I don't know that we will find a dog park we are comfortable with. I would be more than willing to visit them and see what the locals and their dogs are like but if people show that they don't have the proper control over their dogs as is necessary then dog parks won't be able to be a part of our socializing anymore. 

I suppose what I am saying is that I feel that those who hate dog parks have never been fortunate enough to find a good one like my current one, and hey, we all have bad experiences with things. I suppose I just don't understand why a few bad dogs and owners in an otherwise friendly environment would ruin the whole experience for some people. I mean, we send our kids to high school even though horrible things have happened in high schools everywhere.


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## Caty M

I agree.. know your dog is the biggest, most important thing as well as your dog being under control. Bishop can overwhelm dogs sometimes when he tries to herd them but if I say stop he does immediately. If your dog is DA or extremely scared, or just not behaving, perhaps a dog park is not the best place for your dog to be.


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## kady05

PuppyPaws said:


> But, I must say... I feel sad for the dog when I see it, only because if it makes any move that it was designed and programmed to do... I know it will be the pit on the chopping block, no matter whose fault it really was... and a lot of people WOULD report it- just because it's a pit.


Exxxactly. 



PuppyPaws said:


> I think you're wrong.
> You have a hound, did you get that hound for hunting? If you did, chances are you went with a hound, and not... say... a Pomeranian... because of his natural instinct and predisposition to be a good hunting dog. But, not ALL hounds will be good hunting dogs, as you know.
> 
> Well, pits are predisposed to DA. It is a fact of life. No, not all pits will fight other dogs, but SOME will, and it's just a breed type thing. I know people with DA Pits, and no, the owners did nothing to "make them that way" they just ARE. DA and HA are two ENTIRELY different issues... and a dog that is abused is more likely to be HA, NOT DA.
> 
> For the most part, my dogs are all AWESOME with other dogs, but Annie is selective. Border Collies, and Aussies.... not her thing. I didn't do anything to make her that way. She just IS. Dog's temperaments are every bit nature as they are nurture.
> 
> Now, we've already had several threads go down this road lately, and I will not tolerate another one. Go on ahead and debate on Dog Parks, but further Pit Bull debating on the matter WILL be deleted.


Thank you.

No rebuttal from me since we were asked to stop the Pit Bull debate. Only thing I'll say is for those of you that think that if you have a DA Pit Bull that it's your fault, you really need to do some more research on the breed.


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## mischiefgrrl

I love the concept of dog parks, but I don't go to them anymore. I won't say I'll never go to another one, but locally there aren't any that are worth going to right now.

In San Diego there's a great chunk of undeveloped land on Fiesta Island that is an off leash park (or was when I lived there.) It was a fantastic place to take my old Aussie and let him run and herd the other dogs to his heart's content. Now and then someone would be there with a little chihuahua or like teacup dog that scream at me because my dog was trying to herd it. I own a little dog now and I still feel the same way: those teacups do not belong at a dog park where big and little are mixed. There are very few places in a city where a big dog can run free like that. There are plenty of parks where a little one can. I don't bring Tiffa into a park with big dogs and expect everyone to leave.

I also had an incident with the old Aussie where he tried to herd a dog that was on a leash and harness and the poor thing got a tear in his skin. He was some wrinkled skin breed with very delicate skin. The little tear, got bigger and bigger as he walked. I felt horrible and gave the owner my number to call me from her vet's office. Her vet agreed that it was a typical herding nip and not an act of aggression from my Aussie. Still, I paid her deductible. The other people at the park told me I didn't have to do that but my dog did the damage whether he meant to or not.

On Pitt Bulls at the parks...I've known some fantastic loving, goofy, gentle pitts. Unfortunately, I've also come across many, many, many pitts that are that way with humans, but not with dogs. I agree with the people who have posted that bringing them to a dog park is setting them up to fail. They are very popular in LA and there are way to many idiots owning them. Every single time we encounter a dog that is off leash on the street, it is ALWAYS a pitt. Tanis has been attacked twice by a pitt, the first time almost killed him. He is instantly defensive when he sees one running at him, whether it just wants to play or has other things in mind. We encountered one the other evening while we were walking down a very busy street. Suddenly a pitt and a Pomeranian came running at us with the owner just standing there yelling at them to come back. I didn't want to guide her dogs into traffic, but I also didn't want to find out the hard way if the one was aggressive so I kept crossing the street, dragging my two along as they barked their heads off. I keep mace on me for that very reason when we walk now.


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## magicre

linsey.....take a girl with the flu who is feeling snarky to begin with and then she reads you call small dogs 'yappy' and she goes off, because suddenly it's MY small dogs being called yappy.

it only had to make sense in my head.

upon further review, i should not have posted at all...and just stayed in bed...my bad.


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## CorgiPaws

magicre said:


> linsey.....take a girl with the flu who is feeling snarky to begin with and then she reads you call small dogs 'yappy' and she goes off, because suddenly it's MY small dogs being called yappy.
> 
> it only had to make sense in my head.
> 
> upon further review, i should not have posted at all...and just stayed in bed...my bad.


Well, feel better, dangit!
Not all small dogs are yappy.... usually dogs that are yappy have even yappier owners. LOL


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## magicre

PuppyPaws said:


> Well, feel better, dangit!
> Not all small dogs are yappy.... usually dogs that are yappy have even yappier owners. LOL


true. my pug has a baritone bark....

regardless....i see these posts and i see these threads...and i've been on both sides...having had big dogs and little dogs...and i see problems more with owners than i see with the dogs....

i don't even know if there is a solution.....but i do think there should always be a small dog and a big dog side...and maybe even a middle for those few who are well balanced


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## xellil

magicre said:


> i don't even know if there is a solution.....but i do think there should always be a small dog and a big dog side...and maybe even a middle for those few who are well balanced


My dog park doesn't really have a small dog side - it has a "bad dog" side. Probably should be called a "bad owner" side. If someone's dog is causing a hassle, people will suggest he/she be taken over to the bad dog side.

I did quit taking Snorkels - she loves to run, and sniff, but she doesn't want any dogs to be within 20 feet of her. She's so old she never caused any problems, but she was scared. I was wrong to take her as long as I did. Taking her to the bad dog side worked as long as there werent' any bad dogs over there!


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## SerenityFL

Hope I remember everything I wanted to say...

First of all, whether anyone wants to agree with it or not, Kady is right. It's not what WE think, it's the story that will come out, after something happens. That IS the reality. If a chihuahua started some sh*t down at the dog park and there was a pit bull involved somehow, it doesn't matter that the tiny dog started it, the pit bull is going to get all the blame. I don't mean from dog owners who know anything at all, I mean from IDIOTS and the media. They will blow that **** right out of proportion and the next thing you know, it's another "pit bull attacks" story. You can't just view it from how YOU see it.

While so many pit bulls ARE friendly, nice, well mannered dogs, there's a lot that aren't. It's not the DOG I'm afraid of, it's the OWNER! I can't even begin to tell you how many morons in Miami would get pit bulls just to show off, (or fight them, it's big down there.....grrrrrrr!!!!!!!!), act all machismo and puff out their chest draped in a wife beater, jeans and some fake bling. Oh, and dear God, let us not forget the insect sunglasses. You cannot forget those. 

In other words, they had pit bulls for ALL the wrong reasons and THESE are the people who bring their dogs to the park to show off, to act tough, to make "connections" and maybe a little something will pass hands. They do not know how to handle their dogs.

Dog parks in general:

Seattle, in the Redmond area...if it's still there...GREAT dog park. I would actually recommend it. There's a smaller one I used to take my dog Pandora to in the Greenlake area and again, while small, it was good.

Why? Because, as a general rule, the people in Seattle HAVE. A DAMN. CLUE when it comes to dogs and dog parks. At the big one in Redmond, if there were children around, they knew EXACTLY how to act around strange dogs and people knew how to act. The whole dang place was calm and fun and out of all of the times I went there, I don't think I ever even saw a warning snarl or growl from one dog to another.

At the Greenlake one, I took my dog there to socialize her. She was ok...not always wanting to play with everyone but she didn't act like an ass either. Her favorite dogs were small dogs and puppies. Pandora was 75 pounds. (German Shepherd, Rott, Lab mix.) One day, we were at this park and a puppy came in to play. Well, Pandora was beside herself. She was in love. She and the puppy played and played, chased each other, were having a grand ol' time.

Then a guy came in, (and I HATE to have to say this but it is fact), with his rott. The rott took one look at that puppy and was ready to tear it from limb to limb. My dog...MY DOG, who would lick you to death before she would ever bite anyone, got pissed. She stood in front of that puppy, staring that rott down. She was going to give her life for the safety of this puppy. This rott was huge. There was some serious shit talking going on back and forth between the two, my dog and the rott, and thankfully, JUST as everything was about to explode, the owner of the rott got a handle on his dog.

But do you know what he did? He apologized profusely to me, to the puppy's parents and swiftly removed his dog from the park. He didn't give anyone crap about having a puppy there, he realized HIS dog was the problem that day. (To end, the puppy and my dog went back to playing, bestest of friends now and the puppy's owners praised the crap out of my dog. Hell I praised the crap out of my dog...I didn't know she had it in her until then.)

So, in Seattle? Great parks. Great people.

In Miami? OY! As was mentioned earlier, about 80% of the people in Miami who have dogs? Should not have dogs. They don't have a clue. And every fricken last one of them takes their dogs to the dog park and lets them loose while they sit on the benches or tables chit chatting, making out, talking on their cell phones, anything at all but watching their dogs.

They are so clueless that one time, I was dogsitting, and the dog I was watching wanted to play with a tiny, white dog. (The dog I was watching was a fricken chihuahua.) Well, the tiny white dog merely said something, it wasn't fear or get away or I hate you, she just said something. God. You would think she had let out a blood curdling scream the way the PEOPLE started acting. They got all hyped up, all this energy was flying around, and what was actually a calm situation turned in to a volatile situation as every last dog in the dog park came barreling over to the tiny white dog who was now hiding under a bench really screaming now, and was trying to attack it. All because the STUPID owners didn't know a thing about dogs or their dog. Then some of those dogs started to get really worked up and some of them started to attack each other. It was unfrickenreal. I never went back to that damn park.

When I found the hoodlums, we went to another one that had a small dog side and a big dog side. Well. What the hell do I do? I have a "bigger" dog and a "smaller" dog. Do I take the bigger one to the small side and face the wrath of those people or do I take the smaller one to the big side and face the wrath of those people? I can't leave one in each area, I have to be there with them. (And I did not KNOW it was separated like that when I went. The co-workers who told me about this park neglected to include that bit of information.)

Because there were some TINY dogs in the small dog side, I opted to take my chances in the big dog side. And things were fine for the most part. Most of the idiot humans were not paying attention to their dogs but a few of them were and one lady was "exercising" them all. She felt it was very important to actually interact with the dogs AT the park. (One lady out of how many?)

As a puppy, Shasta did not have an issue with dogs. He loved them. It got a bit overwhelming for him at times but nothing bad. He mainly watched and ran after the group of big dogs like a kid brother tagging along, watching the older siblings play with their friends. The girl had started to interact with one dog there and was doing well but then other dogs saw how much fun those two were having and they all came flying over to join in on the fun and that just scared the crap out of her. And then they started to chase her and she got bowled over and it was all very traumatic for her. She was scared of most dogs for some time. She did fine with the neighbor dogs but in those cases, it was either one on one or two and her...small dogs or older dogs. No problems. When we got here, my neighbor has a great mannered dog, (except for all the talking...and it's not barking, it's talking), who will STOP when she "catches" Sakari and that was all it took for Sakari to get over it. She can handle them all as long as there aren't a ton of them chasing her or being high strung or pinning her down. 

But, now the boy has DA and while we continue to work on it and it IS getting better, I don't know if I'll EVER be able to trust him at a dog park. Who knows WHAT will trigger him. And because so many don't know what they are doing, have no clue how to call their dog off or break up a fight, I fear it would set my boy back forever, never to return. 

And I believe this is also what Kady was talking about when she said, "don't set them up for failure".


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## magicre

well, i must admit seattle is one of the doggiest cities in the country....i didn't know it meant we had a clue LOL...just teasing you, serenity...

xellil....a 'bad' dog section....that's almost funny if it weren't so sad.....bad owners...i agree....

poor doggies.....they so suffer because so many owners are clueless.

i don't take my dogs to dog parks.....malia can still roll a lab but doesn't want to and she can still outrun a rabbit and i don't want her to because good recall or no.....on the one hand, rabbit or squirrel, on the other hand mommy calling? rabbit wins every time....and she's twelve.

bubba? well, he's bubba...he wants to play....he is a blockhead whom my trainer only had marginal success...most stubborn dog i've ever met...

dog parks are a good idea for the people who know their dogs....i wish more people knew their dogs.


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## Cliffdog

I will never, ever go to any dog park. I don't like them, and my dogs are dog selective anyways. Fortunately we have a large back yard and at least once a week Bonnie gets to run around my trainer's acreage, with what few of her dogs Bonnie gets along with (2 of 8 dogs... a Malinois and a Rott/GSD) and my sister's mongrel Laine.


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## cprcheetah

I have both tiny dogs and a big dog, Ziva would be fine playing with a 150# great dane (as long as it was gentle), she holds her own etc. Her favorite doggie buddy is a Weimeraner who lives in our neighborhood, she loves him. Zoey doesn't like big dogs PERIOD. Now she is not a rude little bratty yappy chihuahua because I've trained her better than that. That was one of the BIGGEST things I did when Zoey was a puppy was train her to 'not' be the sterotypical chihuahua....I didn't do so hot with Ziva in that regard lol. My standard poodle used to crouch down and play with Zoey. Zoey will sometimes play with Shellie but Shellie is like a toronado 1/2 the time it scares me to have Zoey play with her. Ziva would probably be one of the bratty 'rushing' little dogs, but not because she's a brat but because in her mind she literally weighs 100#.....LMBO! Well okay I will admit it she is a brat!

Ziva can wrestle/tumble with the best of them, but would I trust her in a dog park with all big dogs? ABSOLUTELY NOT, I have seen too many little dogs get 'snapped' up in an instant. And IMO she'd be considered 'rude' in doggie terms, rushing everyone trying to lick their lips etc. My sisters chinese crested got killed by a couple of Chow Mixes, WHILE she was out on a walk. Some big dogs have a thing against little dogs plain and simple. A lot of dogs see them as prey.


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## DoglovingSenior

I am so glad that I missed the comments on here yesterday. I also feel SO VERY sorry for owners who do not know their dogs and/or do not have the best control. I have had the big breeds GSD, Rotties (for the past 21 years), and now for 10yrs an APBT., and a tiny 12lb Tibetan Spaniel. I have NEVER had a bite incident or a fight incident. So if it is usually the owners fault, I would take a good look in the mirror if I could not have my dogs around my family's dogs or in the presence of children when I am present. 4 of these were rescues and yes, I protected one and the public because she was fearful. Bye & Have a Good Day! This thread could really change ones - AW forget it. I'll continue to keep my big and tiny dog away from the dog park.


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## BrownieM

I feel bad for those who do not have access to a park where the benefits of their dog being there outweighs the risk. :/


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## kady05

You guys do realize that there are other, safer ways to exercise dogs other than going to a dog park, right? It's not like my dogs, who never go to dog parks, live a terrible, sheltered life because of that LOL.


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## CorgiPaws

kady05 said:


> You guys do realize that there are other, safer ways to exercise dogs other than going to a dog park, right? It's not like my dogs, who never go to dog parks, live a terrible, sheltered life because of that LOL.


I don't think that dog parks are right for every dog. I do think that for dogs that are a good fit for a dog park-type environment, that the benefits of a GOOD park outweigh the risks. 
It REALLY irritates me, though, when people INSIST their dogs "love" the dog park when clearly they haven't, don't, and won't. 
I have a friend whose dog just is NOT good with other dogs, not because she wasn't socialized, she was, she just isn't good with them. This friend takes her poor dog out, almost EVERY day, trying to make her social. I don't think this dog will EVER like other dogs. Sometimes, people really need to respect their dogs for what they are. 

What is making me give dog parks another chance, is that I don't have a lot of land, just 1/4 acre, and leash laws here are strict, so it's the only way I can let them run anywhere closeby, without risking a ticket.


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## minnieme

PuppyPaws said:


> I don't think that dog parks are right for every dog. I do think that for dogs that are a good fit for a dog park-type environment, that the benefits of a GOOD park outweigh the risks.
> It REALLY irritates me, though, when people INSIST their dogs "love" the dog park when clearly they haven't, don't, and won't.
> I have a friend whose dog just is NOT good with other dogs, not because she wasn't socialized, she was, she just isn't good with them. This friend takes her poor dog out, almost EVERY day, trying to make her social. I don't think this dog will EVER like other dogs. Sometimes, people really need to respect their dogs for what they are.
> 
> What is making me give dog parks another chance, is that I don't have a lot of land, just 1/4 acre, and leash laws here are strict, so it's the only way I can let them run anywhere closeby, without risking a ticket.


I feel ya on this one...which is why I'd so love to find a house with more than a quarter acre! Minnie could WALK 1/4 acre in about 2 seconds since her stride is so long...so she needs somewhere really huge to run! Plus, as mentioned, we are blessed to have huge dog parks here....with relatively responsible people. I do go at non-peak hours because her recall isn't perfect yet (yeah, sorry everyone, I am THAT person but we are working so hard on it every single day).... but when she has it down pat, I don't think I'd have too much of a problem taking her to one of the huge ones while it's semi busy. It truly is about balancing the risks.... I know that there is potential there for them to be dangerous, but I do try to mitigate this as much as possible. Until I get my 50 acres, dog parks are unfortunately what this girl needs in order to truly run! 

Btw, before anyone chastises me for her 75% recall rate ( :wink: ), I mean it when I say we devote tons of time to it each day. And she is getting SOOO much better -- particularly because I've been using a certain new "treat" -- Orijen kibble. Which is like crack to her. So, no, she isn't perfect yet...but she does great inside my home or our yard... unfortunately, as much as some members might hate me for it, the dog park is her biggest obstacle to overcome....and if she can do it there, I have faith she could do it anywhere. So that's where we practice. When we go there are usually only about 4 other dogs there max, and sometimes she might go play with them...but if she's being obnoxious (trying to play but they aren't interested), I can easily coax her away.

Anyway, just a matter of weighing the pros and cons. To me, it's vital right now for practicing her recall in a fenced in area..but with high distractions. I understand the dangers, but like Linsey, we have pretty strict leash laws here. If we had any dog parks smaller than 15 acres, I definitely would not be putting her in that environment.


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## kady05

PuppyPaws said:


> I don't think that dog parks are right for every dog. I do think that for dogs that are a good fit for a dog park-type environment, that the benefits of a GOOD park outweigh the risks.
> It REALLY irritates me, though, when people INSIST their dogs "love" the dog park when clearly they haven't, don't, and won't.
> I have a friend whose dog just is NOT good with other dogs, not because she wasn't socialized, she was, she just isn't good with them. This friend takes her poor dog out, almost EVERY day, trying to make her social. I don't think this dog will EVER like other dogs. Sometimes, people really need to respect their dogs for what they are.
> 
> What is making me give dog parks another chance, is that I don't have a lot of land, just 1/4 acre, and leash laws here are strict, so it's the only way I can let them run anywhere closeby, without risking a ticket.


That's sad for that dog.. and sounds like it could be an accident waiting to happen. 

I'd LOVE to have 1/4 acre LOL.. this is my backyard:










There's a spot that we have covered with small rocks to the left of that, and maybe.. 10' behind it, but it's not big at all (I live in a condo, we just aren't attached to the other houses, kind of weird). So, I've found other ways to exercise my dogs. The 100 acre park by my house is the place we visit most, but then there are tennis courts, empty soccer fields, baseball fields, etc. as well.


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## CorgiPaws

kady05 said:


> That's sad for that dog.. and sounds like it could be an accident waiting to happen.


Oh it absolutely is. I mean, a year and zero progress while doing everything "right".... when will she just accept her dog doesn't like other dogs, and needs slow introductions to new people. Her dog HAS bitten people and dogs in the past, and she just figures MORE socialization will do the trick! The most annoying part about it, is it's always someone else's fault! "Well, people in wheelchairs are scary, huh?" "Oh is that jogger way freaking across the park making it tough for you to focus?" "Kids walking by is just too distracting, huh?" 



kady05 said:


> There's a spot that we have covered with small rocks to the left of that, and maybe.. 10' behind it, but it's not big at all (I live in a condo, we just aren't attached to the other houses, kind of weird). So, I've found other ways to exercise my dogs. The 100 acre park by my house is the place we visit most, but then there are tennis courts, empty soccer fields, baseball fields, etc. as well.


Unfortunately, my BACK yard is itty bitty. I have a big front yard, but can't fence it in due to zoning laws. But, 1/4 acre for a Dane is like 3 strides! haha.


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## kady05

PuppyPaws said:


> Oh it absolutely is. I mean, a year and zero progress while doing everything "right".... when will she just accept her dog doesn't like other dogs, and needs slow introductions to new people. Her dog HAS bitten people and dogs in the past, and she just figures MORE socialization will do the trick! The most annoying part about it, is it's always someone else's fault! "Well, people in wheelchairs are scary, huh?" "Oh is that jogger way freaking across the park making it tough for you to focus?" "Kids walking by is just too distracting, huh?"
> 
> 
> Unfortunately, my BACK yard is itty bitty. I have a big front yard, but can't fence it in due to zoning laws. But, 1/4 acre for a Dane is like 3 strides! haha.


Owners like that kill me.. it's like the people that come onto the Pit Bull forum with DA dogs that want their dogs to be able to go to huge dog events, stuff like that. Or are shocked when their dog gets snarky with another dog. Er.. did you research the breed before you got one?? Why don't you just do right by your dog and realize it's not going to be BFF's with everyone? :sigh:

LOL, you're right, with all of those big dogs they probably can't do much out there! I was just at a AKC Match show last weekend and the rings were SO tiny.. there were 6 Afghans there and those poor dogs could barely do a fast walk around them!


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## BrownieM

Around here, other than a dog park, there are no areas that my dogs can legally or safely be off leash and interacting with other dogs. Well, my backyard - but that is boring for the dogs now. 

I am thankful that mine LOVE the park and that we haven't had any real issues. Just little things that annoy me. Is that enough to keep me from going? HECK no!


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## Celt

I'm lucky in that I have a good size yard for my iggies, big enough that they could get all of their exercise needs met, but they can't really "open up" and *run*. I didn't realize this until I saw them actually race against each other. It was just wow. We use to go to a baseball field but had to jury rig away to close it off, cause no way am I trusting a recall with these guys. As the saying goes it only takes one time to end up losing a dog. And even then I only had Blaise at the time and while he did run. It was still not as fast as when he's with his "brother". They crossed that acre in a blur. I can definitely see where the Danes would need a "huge" area to really stretch out and run.


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## Caty M

Celt, me and my boyfriend will stand at opposite sides of the baseball field and call her back and forth- LOL. Iggies truly are SO fast. My little 10 pounder can outrun labs, shepherds, collies, etc :biggrin: we have to take her out for a free run at least five times a week. I just love watching it.


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## Celt

We use to do that with Blaise and it was cool to watch, even had some "puppy races" against my niece's pom ( turned out to be a REALLY BAD idea). But now that we have Scotty, it's just awesome as they try to out race each other. I thought I'd seen Blaise run before but with his "brother", just wow. Does she get a kind of "glazed" look in her eyes after she's run a couple of times? A kind of "the lights are on but no one's home" glaze.


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## nikkiluvsu15

kady05 said:


> You guys do realize that there are other, safer ways to exercise dogs other than going to a dog park, right? It's not like my dogs, who never go to dog parks, live a terrible, sheltered life because of that LOL.


Yes, quite aware of that. 

Harleigh gets to enjoy those as well, BUT she also gets to enjoy the dog park... so you do realize that just because my dog goes to a dog park doesn't mean she is living a terrible life? :wink:

Besides my backyard (which is around 3.5 acres, but its not fenced so its even not as "safe" as the dog park), the dog park is the only place Harleigh can legally (& safely) get to go off leash. So while she gets to go lots of place on leash and have fun, there are only few places where she can run off-leash to her hearts content.


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## kady05

nikkiluvsu15 said:


> Yes, quite aware of that.
> 
> Harleigh gets to enjoy those as well, BUT she also gets to enjoy the dog park... so you do realize that just because my dog goes to a dog park doesn't mean she is living a terrible life? :wink:
> 
> Besides my backyard (which is around 3.5 acres, but its not fenced so its even not as "safe" as the dog park), the dog park is the only place Harleigh can legally (& safely) get to go off leash. So while she gets to go lots of place on leash and have fun, there are only few places where she can run off-leash to her hearts content.


I never insinuated that dogs that go to dog parks live terrible lives. Good lord, some of you guys love putting words in my mouth! I was responding to some of the posters who mentioned it was sad to see that some dogs couldn't go to the dog park, etc.

I sure my dogs would enjoy eating a ton of chocolate too, but that doesn't mean I'm going to let them do it.


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## nikkiluvsu15

kady05 said:


> I never insinuated that dogs that go to dog parks live terrible lives. Good lord, some of you guys love putting words in my mouth! I was responding to some of the posters who mentioned it was sad to see that some dogs couldn't go to the dog park, etc.
> 
> I sure my dogs would enjoy eating a ton of chocolate too, but that doesn't mean I'm going to let them do it.


Sorry - wasn't trying to put words in your mouth. Was just going along with your "general" outlook on dog parks, guess I didn't pay attention to the whole conversation. LOL.


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## CorgiPaws

Going to the dog park isn't right or wrong at face value. 

There are dogs that shouldn't go.... and there are dogs that are just fine.


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## nikkiluvsu15

PuppyPaws said:


> Going to the dog park isn't right or wrong at face value.
> 
> There are dogs that shouldn't go.... and there are dogs that are just fine.


I agree. :smile:


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## BrownieM

Not sure how feeding a dog chocolate can be compared to taking a dog to a dog park...but okay...


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## kady05

BrownieM said:


> Not sure how feeding a dog chocolate can be compared to taking a dog to a dog park...but okay...


I was commenting on the "my dog enjoys it" reason for people to take them. My dogs would enjoy to do LOTS of things if I let them, some that may not be good for them. For me, their safety is not worth risking even if they'd have a blast at a dog park (which they all probably would). Just my personal opinion.


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## BrownieM

It's never a good idea to compare apples to oranges, though. Some dogs might enjoy eating chocolate but all dogs are certain to be harmed from eating chocolate. Some dogs may enjoy going to the dog park but all dogs are NOT certain to be harmed from going to the dog park. The level of risk is not comparable.


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## SerenityFL

Let's not argue semantics.

The point is, some dog parks are great, some suck.

Some dog owners are great, some suck.

Some dogs do well at dog parks, some don't.

It is our responsibility as dog owners to know which parks are good, who there is a good owner and what our dog likes and needs as far as excercise and socialization.

Some dogs just don't do well at parks. That's just the way it is. 

Even if my hoodlums did well at parks, I would be very, very, very picky about which one I take them to in the future because I have seen the good and I have seen the downright horrid. Most of the time, it's not the park itself, it's the people. 

As was said, no one is right or wrong. I personally am not a fan of dog parks. If there were more like the one in Redmond, I'd be more apt to try it out with dogs that can handle being at a dog park with other dogs. Again, the people there took good care of their dogs, (vaccinations and spaying/neutering), they knew dogs and they taught their kids about dogs. Plus, there were water holes, trails and massive open fields so that you could have 100 dogs at this park and not feel like you were around 100 dogs.

But, I have not seen another dog park like it in my travels, (read: moving), and am not inclined to take my dogs to parks like I saw in Miami. That's just asking for problems.

Know thy dog, know thy dog park. If it works, great. If it doesn't, that's just the reality some times. 

You and you and you over there, you're not wrong.

You and you and you right here? You're not wrong either.

Ok?!


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## splitnightsky

haven't tried the dog park here yet.
just found out a couple weeks ago that there was one here.

I will admit I'm a bit hesitant - Scorch gets antsy just being around the dogs at the Farmer's Market,
and that's maybe 10 or so at a time? he just wants to rush up and play with them,
which as you can guess is not my preferable method for him being introduced to older dogs.
he adores bigger dogs and doesn't like small ones, so we'd have to go on the big dogs side (if there is a separation).

his bff right now is a half pit half rott mix, and they play wonderfully.
so I don't think I'd have to worry one bit about the big dogs hurting him - he just does the corgi roll and is all good 
however, I have to keep him away from small dogs - they all want to attack him, and I don't really know why.

if I do take him, it won't be for too much longer...
as of now, I have no plans to fix him and I don't know if he would cause problems or not.
I've met many an intact male who did not, but I would rather be safe than have a dogfight any day.

it was good reading everyone's opinions though


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## xellil

Who would have thought the dog park would be such a controversial topic?? 

We went today - one other dog there. It was very weird - a beautiful Saturday afternoon and only ONE other dog there?


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## whiteleo

xellil said:


> Who would have thought the dog park would be such a controversial topic??
> 
> We went today - one other dog there. It was very weird - a beautiful Saturday afternoon and only ONE other dog there?


That would be ideal in my book!


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## minnieme

xellil said:


> Who would have thought the dog park would be such a controversial topic??
> 
> We went today - one other dog there. It was very weird - a beautiful Saturday afternoon and only ONE other dog there?


We went this morning too (40+acre park)! Minnie met up with three other danes....needless to say, it was a beautiful sight! Wish I had thought to bring my camera....but in the throes of collecting pee, bringing it into the vet right when it opened, and getting her 'script for a UTI filled....well hey, some things (IMPORTANT THINGS) got forgotten I guess! AAARGH.

What a day.


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## Caty M

Oh Oh Oh!!! New pet peeve! People that eat CHICKEN WINGS at the park with dozens of dogs swarming around them. A couple jumped- I'd hate to see a dog grab one and gulp it down- I'm sure they would with the number of dogs there. 

I thought Tess's recall was pretty well perfect but I guess I just don't compare to deep fried chicken.


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## minnieme

Caty M said:


> Oh Oh Oh!!! New pet peeve! People that eat CHICKEN WINGS at the park with dozens of dogs swarming around them. A couple jumped- I'd hate to see a dog grab one and gulp it down- I'm sure they would with the number of dogs there.
> 
> I thought Tess's recall was pretty well perfect but I guess I just don't compare to deep fried chicken.


O_O Wow..people...wow.....


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## xellil

Caty M said:


> Oh Oh Oh!!! New pet peeve! People that eat CHICKEN WINGS at the park with dozens of dogs swarming around them. A couple jumped- I'd hate to see a dog grab one and gulp it down- I'm sure they would with the number of dogs there.
> 
> I thought Tess's recall was pretty well perfect but I guess I just don't compare to deep fried chicken.


that is priceless. I have seen people bring dog treats in, but that just beats all - bring your LUNCH in to a dog park?? Lord, some people just aren't blessed with many brain cells.


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## meggels

I'd love to have one that is 14 or 40 acres! 

We found a great newer one about 20 minutes away. Well, it sounded great online. We get there and you have to climb a steep hill to get up to the main area (while already in the fenced in park area so there's dogs running around you and it looked like a fall waiting to happen lol), the entire thing was dirt (blech, i hate when the dog parks are all dirt, i prefer grass) and it was in the woods so it was just tooooo buggy. 


I'm lucky that Abbie and I have found the "underground dog society" that meets next door at the sports fields. It's anywhere from 3-6 dogs a night. Most of them are well behaved, and she's really bonded with Daisy, this little mix that I suspect is JRT and Chihuhua. They have the same play style of mostly running and chasing one another, with a tiny bit of play bows and hops thrown in. They just adore each other now. And on top of that we have the horse farm where I grew up about 10 minutes away and she plays with the two black labs up there. Well, she runs and chases them while I use the chuck it to throw the ball for them since they are the typical ball obsessed black labs lol.


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