# How would you facilitate...?



## domika (Jul 15, 2012)

Hi all, pretty new here. I'm looking to start feeding pre-made raw soon but to feed the raw for one meal and kibble as the other. Full on raw isn't an option right now since DH isn't quite on board so I would feed the premade raw meal. I've read that some people have done/do this and I was just wondering how I would transition my dog over? I know you're not supposed to feed them at the same time because of the time it takes to digest is different. Right now I am looking at primal and nvi. I won't be switching for at least a couple months but just wanted some input. 

Thank you!


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## Kibblelady (Jul 13, 2012)

Hi, welcome  You may be better off asking this on the raw board but I am sure people here can help you as well.. I will comment that I do not agree with the whole "you cannot fee draw and kibble at the same time because digestion differs" if you think about this you realize how it does not make sense. I know why they say it but it is just something IMO that just keeps getting repeated. The gut does not pick and choose what it digests, it just digests... your gut does not decide to digest your steak tatar before or after your potato, it just makes the enzymes to break these things down and digest them after your stomach throws the acid at them to break them down into gruel. I am sure someone will disagree but I would not worry about feeding both at all. Makes sense right?

Transition as far as total raw? I would ask the raw feeders that. I would imagine how long you want the process to take is what it will unless one of your dogs has a problem with the transition. Have you any information in as far as what the break down will be with both to make sure while you are feeding both you will not have any excesses or deficits? What kibble are you feeding?


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## Kayota (Jul 21, 2012)

Yeah I definitely never saw any problems like that feeding kibble and raw at the same time or whatever...


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## domika (Jul 15, 2012)

Thanks for the info! I may repost this on the raw board too but I see raw feeders comment on posts like this a lot :wink:



Kibblelady said:


> Have you any information in as far as what the break down will be with both to make sure while you are feeding both you will not have any excesses or deficits? What kibble are you feeding?


Right now we are on Fromm Four Star Game Bird Recipe. And no, I have no idea what the break down would be, that's why I'm just trying to get my feet wet and learn more about it right now before I jump in!


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## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

Before we switched to raw, oh man, probably close to 3 years ago now, Mol was on: raw/canned/kibble/dehydrated/cooked/semicooked, whatever took my fancy when her meal was dished out. Often 2 or 3 different combinations of these and different proteins in one meal. Now, she just might have the constitution of an ox, but we never had one iota of a problem. I have known other dogs that have chronic diaorrhea if you so much as switch a protein on them.
On the other hand, I have a friend that was feeding raw at night and kibble in the am. Always soft stool. I switched her to premade raw mornings and raw at night and everything is normal now. So, I do think it sort of boils down to knowing your dog.
If you were me, I'd feed maybe chicken backs in the morning and kibble at night for a couple of days and see how your pup does. But, I'm known for rushing into things. How is your pup normally, does he/she have sensitive stomach?


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## domika (Jul 15, 2012)

His stomach is pretty average, not super sensitive as to where I can't feed multi-protein foods but not strong enough to abruptly switch it cold turkey. He can handle change pretty quickly, just not instantly.


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## Savage Destiny (Mar 16, 2011)

Raw digests more quickly because it's easier to break down than a hard little pellet. It's not the stomach "choosing" to digest raw first, it just breaks down faster. It can upset tummies to have things breaking down at different speeds. I know some dogs that do okay with kibble and raw mixed in the same meal, but a lot don't. 

Most dogs do fine with raw just starting one meal. At worst you get a little tummy upset for a few days.


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## Tobi (Mar 18, 2011)

You can request from a mod that this be moved into the raw feeding section if you wish :thumb:

As far as breaking down differently, they do. Raw as Savage Destiny sated will breakdown at a different rate because it is more digestible to your pups. as far as feeding them together, i personally wouldn't recommend it, I've heard a lot of stories about upset because of it, if you can spread their meals out 8-10 hours that would be fine as the first meal should be processed by the time the next is being eaten.

If you wish to transition your dog over to a pre-made raw you can do it cold turkey, there is no harm in it at all, you want to check on the pre-made for the makeup of the particular mix you're feeding though, such as (80%meat-20% organ) or 60%meat 20%bone,20%organ etc... you don't want to cause upset simply because your mix is too rich with organs etc. 

What pre-made were you looking into getting, maybe we could help you pick one out. :smile:


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## domika (Jul 15, 2012)

We usually feed at 6 and 6 so I could do them in separate meals. Probably raw in the morning? I'm mostly interested in the primal Premade. And thank you for the 80/20 60/20/20 tip! I actually posted this thread in the raw forum too, so hopefully no one gets mad at me!


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## Kibblelady (Jul 13, 2012)

Savage Destiny said:


> Raw digests more quickly because it's easier to break down than a hard little pellet. It's not the stomach "choosing" to digest raw first, it just breaks down faster. It can upset tummies to have things breaking down at different speeds. I know some dogs that do okay with kibble and raw mixed in the same meal, but a lot don't.
> 
> Most dogs do fine with raw just starting one meal. At worst you get a little tummy upset for a few days.


I disagree as I said. Problem is the length of time people attribute kibble breaking down at. I have heard numbers anywhere from 7-12 hours and htis is simply not true.The kibble I feed is liquid mush in 2 hours. I know my kibble is not super kibble in this aspect. There are also way to many studies demonstrating this. I feel this came from raw feeders thinking because the diet was better and "appropriate" it would break down faster, which for some reason they assume is best. It then just spread.... there is no proof of any of this whatsoever. A dog having an upset stomach when trying a new food? That is typical isn't it? At least that's another thing people say. Maybe the raw was simply richer than the kibble they were eating, has different elements breaking down? Many reasons can be attributed to this. Heck I feed raw and kibble at the exact same time in the same meal, no problems or upset ever.

Wanted to also add food stuffs breaking down at different rates is not important. This should have no upsetting effect on the GI system. If something is easier to digest it simply transfers quicker and the stomach acid continues to break down other things. In the bowel things will be absorbed as they are able to be.


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## shellbell (Sep 24, 2011)

Kibblelady said:


> I disagree as I said. Problem is the length of time people attribute kibble breaking down at. I have heard numbers anywhere from 7-12 hours and htis is simply not true.


If it's not true then why have I seen kibble fed dogs (including my own back when they were on kibble) puke 8-10 hours after eating, and the kibble looks almost the same way coming out that it did going in? Still in hard little balls, maybe somewhat soft but definitely still formed pieces of kibble. I'm genuinely curious to know.


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## Kibblelady (Jul 13, 2012)

That was because something was going on with their system, not the kibble. I am sure raw fed dogs occasionally vomit up undigested meat no? I have seen the same thing myself in kibble fed dogs, I was never concerned about it just as I am sure a raw fed owner wouldn't be overly concerned about a dog vomiting a bit of meat. Know what I mean?

Of course there are different rates of digestion for kibbles as this depends on the diet being fed, the plant it was made at and the ingredients. None of them however, take longer than 6 hours to break down in the stomach. I am not even sure they would take that long, I am being giving for the discussion.


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## InkedMarie (Sep 9, 2011)

I have also heard about not feeding kibble and raw together and to allow at least 8 hrs in between meals. What you can do, just in case is to feed a day or two of kibble, then a day or two of raw. I do that except instead of kibble, I use The Honest Kitchen dehydrated and my pre made is Darwin's.


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## Losech (Jul 10, 2012)

I'll feed kibble and raw together with no problems in two of my dogs. They have iron stomachs and rarely ever have a problem with something. My Shiba I've got to be more careful with, but for the most part, I can feed him kibble and raw at the same time and it does not affect the digestion of one or the other. 
Every dog is different and if yours have problems with raw and kibble at the same time, feed one at one meal and the other later.


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## Savage Destiny (Mar 16, 2011)

Kibblelady said:


> I disagree as I said. Problem is the length of time people attribute kibble breaking down at. I have heard numbers anywhere from 7-12 hours and htis is simply not true.The kibble I feed is liquid mush in 2 hours. I know my kibble is not super kibble in this aspect. There are also way to many studies demonstrating this. I feel this came from raw feeders thinking because the diet was better and "appropriate" it would break down faster, which for some reason they assume is best. It then just spread.... there is no proof of any of this whatsoever. A dog having an upset stomach when trying a new food? That is typical isn't it? At least that's another thing people say. Maybe the raw was simply richer than the kibble they were eating, has different elements breaking down? Many reasons can be attributed to this. Heck I feed raw and kibble at the exact same time in the same meal, no problems or upset ever.
> 
> Wanted to also add food stuffs breaking down at different rates is not important. This should have no upsetting effect on the GI system. If something is easier to digest it simply transfers quicker and the stomach acid continues to break down other things. In the bowel things will be absorbed as they are able to be.


I work part time in a natural pet food store. I've talked to lots of people that feed raw, kibble, and everything in between. Many people have dogs that get upset stomachs when mixing raw and kibble, the majority in fact. 

I've also seen kibble be thrown up undigested many hours after being eaten, and talked to many people who have had that happen with their dogs. I have never seen undigested or at least partially digested raw meat come up after an hour or so, nor have I ever talked to someone who has. Bone, maybe, but not meat.


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## Losech (Jul 10, 2012)

Savage Destiny said:


> I've also seen kibble be thrown up undigested many hours after being eaten, and talked to many people who have had that happen with their dogs. I have never seen undigested or at least partially digested raw meat come up after an hour or so, nor have I ever talked to someone who has. Bone, maybe, but not meat.


I have. Conker threw up undigested meat 8 hours after eating it. It can and does happen. Maybe not frequently, but it is possible.


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## Kibblelady (Jul 13, 2012)

Dogs with something going on, no matter how temporary, will have trouble digesting their food no matter what it is. They will vomit it up almost intact...if it is like 6 hours later it is not the problem of the kibble but a problem with the stomach, usually resolves on it's own. I disagree with this majority thing with kibble and raw mixed and digestion. Just on this board look at the people saying they do it without problem?


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

:usa::usa::usa::usa::usa:


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## wolfsnaps88 (Jan 2, 2012)

My two cents....

I used to feed raw and kibble. Back then, I considered myself a part time raw feeder. I am not saying it is right or wrong to do. When I did feed raw, it was considered "raw day". They only got raw for that day. 

I feel raw does digest faster. Do I have concrete scientific proof? NOPE. But being on raw full time now, I find my dogs poop on a routine now. I know pretty much when they have to poop (like, I have doggy ESP of the colon). When they were on kibble, they seemed more irregular and pooped at more random times of the day (or night) after they ate. 

When you feed them together, yes the stomach and intestines digest them together. But with carbs and plant material in the kibble, it takes longer to break down. A plant cell wall is much stronger than an animal cell wall. So, it is going to take longer to break down. This poses a possible problem because raw DOES have bacteria in it. A dog's system is short and wants things to move along quickly before the bacteria have time to settle in and populate. With kibble holding up the process of digestion, you are giving the bacteria time to party.

Also, When my dogs were kibble fed, they would occasionally puke. Many times the kibble was still recognizable as kibble even hours and hours later. Raw food is not the same. Case in point (and feel free to check my awesome facebook post last night about this adventure I had if you are a friend of mine there) last night, Dozer puked up his dinner (near the door, bless his giant heart). He is on an antibiotic because he had a minor surgery. I know this pill is not agreeing with him. He has horrible gas from it and about an hour or less after I gave him his medicine, he threw up. It had been about 3 hours since his meal of beef heart and chicken quarter. He ate the beef heart first, then the quarter about an hour later. Why? Because he decided to go play 'chase the quad' with my husband and was too hot and bothered to eat. Anyways, I am going off on a tangent, sorry. My point is this (finally, right? lol) When he puked, there was no trace of beef heart at all. I did see some chicken in there but it was goopy mush that had been annihilalated by his digestive juices. Chunky chicken soup. makes sense. I mean, animal parts are 70% water basically. Kibble has very little moisture. 


Sooooo.......if you do both, I would not feed them at the same time because of my thoughts on how this all works. I would do raw in the morning and kibble at night if I had to do them the same day. 

In the end, it is your dog and you have to do what you feel is best and I wish you the best.


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## InkedMarie (Sep 9, 2011)

Wolfsnap: [email protected] doggie esp of the colon, that made me laugh!


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