# fearful dog, advice please?



## kellykelly (Jan 27, 2012)

been co-fostering for a while now, about a month ago started with a fearful one.

I'm not sure of her breed, she's scared of just about everything but is sweet and tries her best to listen.

see, a week ago her care was fully transferred to me. I know about her and have been with her but certain...qualities(?)about her is unsure of.

anyhoo, the times when we bump into off leash dogs that aren't aggressive or are aggressive but know not to try anything, she gets scared.

example:
we'll be walking and a cautious but friendly stranger dog runs up to us, trying to sniff her. she'll tuck her tail and flail around to be farther away from the other dog. it's not super panicking or aggressive, just like she's really unsure what to do. my first instinct is to push the other dog away and cuddle her to try and reassure her...<<

but is not sure what to do. some people tell me to hold her still and make her stay with me so the other dog can sniff her and she can sniff/see the other dog.

if the other dog ever gets in her face by all means, I'll step up...but I don't know. I'm not experienced with this. do I hold her still with me to give her no choice but to stay or push the other dog away? balanced dogs are REALLY hard to find and I don't want the tiny good influence of that one stranger dog to be taken away by doing the wrong thing, yknow? I think just a little respectfulness here and there from other dogs could help repair her confidence and lessen the fear a bit. :I
ffff...sorry if this is kinda...rambling...x-x


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## Makovach (Jan 24, 2012)

uaually with fearful dogs, i will make them face their fears (i.e; a trash can, being at the vet trying to hide under chairs, getting in the car, bridges ect.) but I wouldnt make her face her fear of uncontrolled dogs running up to her. That sounds like an accident waiting to happen IMO. 

The first problem i see here is, why is the other dog off leash? Esp. if it is agressive (even if it wont try anything). Being a rescue, you dont know the past, maybe she was attacked or something?. I know with my dogs, Annie was charged by quite a few off lead non supervised dogs while growing up. She was always fearful. I just did my best to keep the situation undercontroll. Eventually she trusted that i wouldnt let anything happen to her. 

The worse thing you can do is baby her when she acts fearful. That will just support the unwanted behavior. I find alot of people petting their dog and telling them "its okay" in a fearful situation, and that is (to the dog) telling them its okay to be fearful. I would try to ignore the dog, keep walking, dont stop. Dont let her focus on the dog, make her focus on you. If the other dog gets too close, make it back off of your personal space (Better yet, tell the owner to control their dog).

I walk all the time with Annie and Tucker off lead. When people &/or dogs are heading our way, i stop and make my dogs sit or tell them to heal untill passed. Never do i let them run up to people or dogs they do no know. 

I hope you can get the advice you need for her. Fear can be a hard battle. 
Good luck!


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## Maxy24 (Mar 5, 2011)

If you force her to interact with other dogs that she is afraid of chances are it'll just be a matter of time before she begins to act aggressively. If showing fearful body language doesn't work to make them leave her alone, maybe acting aggressively will. Fear is an emotion, you cannot "reward" your dog for being fearful, if you rewarded her while she was afraid it would likely lessen the fear, not increase it, soooooo the whole "rewarding fear" thing is false. You can reward certain BEHAVIORS associated with fear (barking for instance) but you cannot actually increase the fear through reward, you can only lessen it. Now if you are a frantic soother (oh it's okay baaaaby!! it's alright blah blah blah the dog might pick up that you are anxious or nervous and become worse, but if you just calmly and soothingly pet the dog or give treats it can only help.


What I would do is stop allowing dogs to come up to her, tell the owners she's scared of other dogs. Also play what is called "Look at That" or LAT. When you walk by another dog give her a treat every time she looks at it. This will start to make her happy to see other dogs. If a loose dog does come up to you try to keep it away if you can without making the situation more dangerous. And try to continue on your walk, reward your dog with treats for walking with you. It's hard to know exactly what to do when a loose dog runs up because each situation will be very different. But under no circumstance should you make your dog interact with other dogs. 

If you know anyone with friendly dogs it would be helpful to slowly introduce your dog to them. Start by walking on opposite sides of the street and play LAT for your dog looking at the other dog, then you can move over to the same side as the other dog, but be behind him, continue playing LAT. Get closer and closer to the other dog until your dog can sniff it's rear end. The other owner might want to give it's dog treats so that he won't swing around and try to interact with yours. Then give your girl treats and walk further back again, then get close and allow for another sniff (you can both stop walking during the sniffs). You can then try letting them walk side by side and allow for SHORT interactions, quick sniffs, and then reward and use the leashes to keep them going. Your girls confidence with the dog will increase steadily and you'll be able to have longer and longer interactions. Eventually she'll likely really want to sniff him over and you should let her. If at any point she begins to look afraid have the other owner pull the dog away and continue walking until she wants to interact again. The more dogs you can do this with the better, it'll slowly start to change her outlook on dogs. 

I also bet she'll be much better with on leash dogs than loose dogs, she just seems to dislike how they can keep coming at her, if they were on leash and their owners held them still so they couldn't move towards her, she might have no issues at all. She just doesn't fully trust them and so wants to have a sniff over before deciding they are okay, if the potentially dangerous dog just keeps advancing at her it becomes scary. So it's possible you don't need to go through the whole process above if the other dog is leashed and it's owner will keep it from advancing on her.


Fear is hard to deal with, but be glad she is not aggressive yet, and work to keep it that way by changing how she FEELS about dogs. They are scary, help her to see them in a positive light by associating them with rewards and making sure she feels safe around them (this is done by never forcing the interaction and by always getting her away from them, or them away from her, when she begins to feel nervous). If she feels situations involving other dogs cannot be controlled she'll want nothing to do with them. I also suggest reading "Click to Calm" by Emma Parsons. It's designed for fear aggression but will work for fear without aggression as they are identical emotions just the dog deals with the emotion in different ways.


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

VERY much so agree with Maxy!!

Do NOT coddle her, but at the same time if you force her you will scare her more, and possibly cause the fear to turn into aggression!

You need to be calm, cool, collected and above all in control of the situation! 

I would also(as Maxy said) HIGHLY suggest NOT letting off leash dogs come at her, work on the LAT from different sides of the street, and once again...above all YOU need to be in charge.


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## xchairity_casex (Oct 8, 2011)

persoanlly if it were me i would try my hardest to find an elderly but well mannerd dog to introduce her to a dog who is basically going to ignore her yet be well mannerd enough that if she should approach them they are fine with it.
talk to your local animal shelters,rescue groups,post ads on craigslist ect shes fearful of dogs approaching HER so if seh can be around a dog who is not going to appraoch her but allow her to appraoch them she will feel more comfortable also dont forget the treats when she DOES appraoch or allow other dogs to appraoch her.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

When Rebel was overreacting to dogs, one tip I got from my trainer was to keep moving - just keep them focused on the task at hand, which is walking. If another dog comes up and sniffs or whatever, we just ignored them. 

So I would walk alot faster when other dogs were approaching and keep my body between my dog and them. It worked pretty well, but Rebel was not fearful, just crazy.


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## kellykelly (Jan 27, 2012)

Scarlett_O' said:


> VERY much so agree with Maxy!!
> 
> Do NOT coddle her, but at the same time if you force her you will scare her more, and possibly cause the fear to turn into aggression!
> 
> ...



I've never coddled her but the need to is so hard to shrug off, I know it probably wouldn't help but I want to reassure her...

see, with the off leash dogs it's difficult. 80% of the dogs in the 2 surrounding towns are off leash and able to roam pretty much anywhere. a dog can break their leash, hop a fence or most common is owners that have a electric fence don't use the collar so the dogs run out of the yards whenever they please.

it sounds questionable to say but standing still until the dogs leave is less stressful for her, though not preferable...<< rarely if we walk away will dogs leave us alone, they either think we're trying to play and jump at us, grab at the leash, etc or take us ignoring them/turning around as a threat. today we were walking and bumped into a off leash German shepherd, we ignored him and kept walking thinking he didn't follow until I turned to see him running after us. we had to run and climb a tree to get out of the dog's reach...>< it's so confusing, like the dogs all have uncontrollable mood swings or something.  

or dogs don't like me. :I

edit: running wasn't the wisest thing to do but the dog had the intention to bite, my vision being slightly damaged interferes with how fast I could react to protect her. unfortunately has seen the damage some of the uncontrolled large breeds are capable of, didn't want to risk her getting hurt.

another gshep about the same size attacked and killed a bc next door to me, this particular dog is a pretty small dog so chance of injury being lethal is much more likely. I apologize if that seems like the coward reaction.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Do what I do - carry a stun gun. The sound of it will scare most dogs off. I would never stand for a dog jumping around us, grabbing the leash, etc. etc. That's just totally unacceptable.

Running from the German shepherd probably didn't help much. I have a feeling you need a little more self confidence. This might not be your dog's problem at all.


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

kellykelly said:


> I've never coddled her but the need to is so hard to shrug off, I know it probably wouldn't help but I want to reassure her...
> 
> *I know its hard, but just remember, the very best way to reassure her is to be in control of the situation!*:smile:
> 
> ...


Your right....it wasnt the best idea....calling the police/animal control is going to be the only way to not only get your self safely out of these situations but also stop these idiot owners from allowing their dogs to do this.

(This is all what I would do, and what I have done in the past....not everyone agrees....but I have had it work multiple times for me!)


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Scarlett_O' said:


> Your right....it wasnt the best idea....calling the police/animal control is going to be the only way to not only get your self safely out of these situations but also stop these idiot owners from allowing their dogs to do this.
> 
> (This is all what I would do, and what I have done in the past....not everyone agrees....but I have had it work multiple times for me!)


yes, hitting folks in the pocketbook is sometimes the only way to wake them up.


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

xellil said:


> yes, hitting folks in the pocketbook is sometimes the only way to wake them up.


So true!
Sadly most owners are either oblivious to their dogs getting out, or just dont give a rat's tail!!:frown:
But they WILL know it when they have to spend money!!


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## kellykelly (Jan 27, 2012)

Scarlett_O' said:


> Your right....it wasnt the best idea....calling the police/animal control is going to be the only way to not only get your self safely out of these situations but also stop these idiot owners from allowing their dogs to do this.
> 
> (This is all what I would do, and what I have done in the past....not everyone agrees....but I have had it work multiple times for me!)


that's the thing though, the officers here don't care. I contacted animal control and the police all the ways possible, I explained the situation with evidence of the off leash dogs but they'll ignore it completely, tell me my own dog started problems(even though he's never with me when I'm walking the foster), or they say nothing can be done without a human being bitten.

stressed that the dog is small so one of these dogs could seriously hurt or kill her, but it's like they don't care unless it's a person. makes me sick. you need a license that takes a while to get here(stun gun, whether it's used or not) but I'ma try to find a couple crops; idk maybe bring pepper spray with me or something...x(


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

kellykelly said:


> that's the thing though, the officers here don't care. I contacted animal control and the police all the ways possible, I explained the situation with evidence of the off leash dogs but they'll ignore it completely, tell me my own dog started problems(even though he's never with me when I'm walking the foster), or they say nothing can be done without a human being bitten.
> 
> stressed that the dog is small so one of these dogs could seriously hurt or kill her, but it's like they don't care unless it's a person. makes me sick. you need a license that takes a while to get here(stun gun, whether it's used or not) but I'ma try to find a couple crops; idk maybe bring pepper spray with me or something...x(


Well IMO, as someone said recently on a different thread, "squeaky wheel gets the grease" kind of thing...keep calling, if nothing else get a news crew out to your walking area if the loose dog problem is that bad and have them report about how the AC and PD wont do a single thing....


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

So get a bite. Say one bit you. I've seen enough dog bites - I could simulate one with a knife


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## Herzo (Feb 5, 2011)

kellykelly said:


> I've never coddled her but the need to is so hard to shrug off, I know it probably wouldn't help but I want to reassure her...
> 
> see, with the off leash dogs it's difficult. 80% of the dogs in the 2 surrounding towns are off leash and able to roam pretty much anywhere. a dog can break their leash, hop a fence or most common is owners that have a electric fence don't use the collar so the dogs run out of the yards whenever they please.
> 
> ...


Ok now let me get this, you walked past the German Shepherd so it couldn't have been that far behind. I know you said the your dog isn't a big dog, but how in the world did you climb a tree with said dog in one hand and only one hand to climb with? Did you leave your dog down there to protect itself with the German Shepherd dog?


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## kellykelly (Jan 27, 2012)

Herzo said:


> Ok now let me get this, you walked past the German Shepherd so it couldn't have been that far behind. I know you said the your dog isn't a big dog, but how in the world did you climb a tree with said dog in one hand and only one hand to climb with? Did you leave your dog down there to protect itself with the German Shepherd dog?


this specific dog is a little smaller than a beagle so she's pretty light, she wears a harness with a little handle/extra leash attachment on it. when I was climbing the tree I slipped my arm through the handle so I would keep hold of her. she wasn't left with the German shepherd, she wasn't down from the tree until the dog was long gone...


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## malluver1005 (Nov 15, 2009)

To the OP, I'm confused, are you talking about Xerxes or another dog in your care?


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## luvMyBRT (Mar 8, 2010)

:twitch::twitch::twitch:

I'm confused too....


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## kellykelly (Jan 27, 2012)

malluver1005 said:


> To the OP, I'm confused, are you talking about Xerxes or another dog in your care?


was I not being clear? eh, sorry Dx

the dog in question is not Xerxes, she's a abandonded dog I'm fostering for the moment...<:\

edit: abandonded meaning she had another foster originally but her fear/lack of trust was too much of an issue for the fosters. instead of transferring her to a backup foster these people dropped her in my yard thinking I'd take her or something since I have a lot of dogs...x-x


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## Herzo (Feb 5, 2011)

I would say the shelter they were fostering for needs to know that these people just dropped the dog in your yard. Doesn't sound like very trustworthy people to me.
I'm thinking that the German Shepard wasn't going to do anything maybe you just panicked. You could probably have just picked her up if she's that small and turned your back on it. Because it must not have been running to fast if you could get up that tree.

How many dogs do you have? I hope no one drops any dogs in my yard 4 is plenty HaHaHa.


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## kellykelly (Jan 27, 2012)

Herzo said:


> I would say the shelter they were fostering for needs to know that these people just dropped the dog in your yard. Doesn't sound like very trustworthy people to me.
> I'm thinking that the German Shepard wasn't going to do anything maybe you just panicked. You could probably have just picked her up if she's that small and turned your back on it. Because it must not have been running to fast if you could get up that tree.
> 
> How many dogs do you have? I hope no one drops any dogs in my yard 4 is plenty HaHaHa.


yeah, unfortunate thing is though I don't know who they were working for, only that they were fosters. found alternative exercise mostly indoors for her to prevent anything happening, but is working on trying to find the organization she came from so she can be in a less hectic environment...

may or may not have overreacted with the german shepherd but the approach seemed aggressive, when most of the off leash dogs tend to be I didn't want to take the chance the little dog could be hurt...

not counting xerxes I have 6 other dogs, all fosters...


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## malluver1005 (Nov 15, 2009)

kellykelly said:


> was I not being clear? eh, sorry Dx
> 
> the dog in question is not Xerxes, she's a abandonded dog I'm fostering for the moment...<:\
> 
> edit: abandonded meaning she had another foster originally but her fear/lack of trust was too much of an issue for the fosters. instead of transferring her to a backup foster these people dropped her in my yard thinking I'd take her or something since I have a lot of dogs...x-x


This makes sense now...because I was wondering how you picked up your pitbull mix and ran up a tree LOL!!


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## Herzo (Feb 5, 2011)

Holy cow you have 7 dogs! that's allot of dogs to handle. So do you work with a shelter or are you just on your own. And are you going to keep any of them. I have become a foster failure which is why I have my pit bull. I have fostered a few dogs in the past one was Maddie and after 9 years is back with us, so maybe you could say I have failed twice.  That's not good is it?


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## Serenity (Dec 30, 2011)

Take it slow and dont force her. Also never put her in a situation that cant be controlled (a loose dog with an iggnorant owner)
Keep her focused on you and never baby her for being scared... your just encourging her skidish behavior... Good luck : )


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## kellykelly (Jan 27, 2012)

Herzo said:


> Holy cow you have 7 dogs! that's allot of dogs to handle. So do you work with a shelter or are you just on your own. And are you going to keep any of them. I have become a foster failure which is why I have my pit bull. I have fostered a few dogs in the past one was Maddie and after 9 years is back with us, so maybe you could say I have failed twice.  That's not good is it?


I work with the shelters, dogs that can't usually get fosters. in this case their appearance is warped from the byb they came from, for some reason it scares everyone else enough not to want to adopt/foster them...:/

I'd like to keep them all, and as much as I care for them and love them I'd figure they'd be happiest in a real home. there's a blind border collie out of them I've grown fond of and his situations needs to be looked at more discriminately than the others, finding the right one for him might not be possible, if it's not I'd keep him at least. :I


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