# Leptospirosis vacs



## lily (May 16, 2011)

I have booked betsy in on Thursday for this vaccination but am now having second thoughts ,if betsy were to contract this disease would it be curable ,any advice please,karen


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

Karen, 

How are you. I hope you are enjoying your little Betsey. I would not under any circumstances vaccinate for Lepto. There are not enough incidences of the disease and the vaccine carries far more dangers than Lepto. Lepto can be easily treated with anti biotics or homeopathically. Here is a really good article Smoke and Mirrors | The Leptospirosis Vaccine for Dogs. I took some excerpts out of it and pasted them here for you. Please go and read the whole article though for total information. I really hope you decide to skip this vaccine. 




Vaccination with Leptospira is fraught with problems. Of major concern is the fact that Leptospira vaccines do not protect the dog from infection with Leptospira or of renal colonization. Leptospira vaccines have little effect on the maintenance and transmission of the disease in the animal populations in which they are applied.26 The ineffective- ness of the vaccine is due in part to the many Leptospirosis serovars and variability of pathogenic strains which are not addressed with vaccines.

Alarmingly, Leptospira can become a source of infection for the humans in contact with any dog vaccinated for Lepto- spirosis.27 There are several cases of which I am personally aware where I could say beyond any doubt that a Lepto- spira vaccine administered to the dog was the cause of subclinical infection and therefore transmitted to a human. Leptospira can and will shed in a vaccinated dog and in turn, infect any humans living in the same household! Leptospira vaccines and the overuse of vaccines in our dogs is a direct obstacle to public health.



TREATMENT

Leptospirosis is easily treated. Doxycycline is the antibiotic of choice and has the ability, even in renal compromise, to effectively rid the urinary tract of Leptospira infection. Doxycycline can be safely administered to dogs with renal insufficiency and will clear the organism from the kidneys, making it effective in both the infection of the blood and urine.11,12

The crux of the problem is, veterinary doctors do not typically know that the Leptospirosis vaccine does not confer immunity. Challenge studies are rarely done and most studies are ineffective in measuring immunity in vivo31,32 Production of Leptospira vaccines is expensive and labor intensive for the drug companies and the vaccines are already on the market: why would they spend precious monies on further testing?

Further confusing the dog owner, most information available from self proclaimed “dog experts” on the internet is false. The marketing misinformation that recommends this vaccine is everywhere. Unfortunately, this includes most of the advice found in veterinary run websites on the internet as well as that found in veterinary office brochures. I found one very fair column on the subject of Leptospirosis written by a retired veterinarian in Oklahoma and a great article that actually listed the contraindications for the Leptospira vaccines in dogs by a veterinarian in Bali: an island with a serious Leptospirosis problem.33,34 Why is this information not better understood? The truth is that too many veterinarians are painfully inept at discussing Leptospirosis because the bulk of their information comes from the very drug companies that stand to profit or at least recoup the many monies this troubled vaccine has cost their corporations.
In dogs that present with Leptospriosis, the severity may be associated with vaccine history and less likely, previous natural exposure which can create an exaggerated humoral immune response.45 Every single vaccination will impact the genetic environment by overly sensitizing the T cells and immune complex against the Leptospirosis antigen, making future vaccination for Leptospirosis and even natural exposure of grave danger due to the creation of this “super antigen”46. Vaccinations prime the immune system for over- reaction which leads to dangerous cytokine cascade and tremendous immunopathology. In the rare case of exposure to Leptospirosis, this “super antigen” reaction has the potential for lethal consequences from renal failure. The same danger exists with each and every vaccination and the likelihood and severity of reaction increases exponentially with every shot given (which in the case of Leptospirosis, may be twice a year). In fact, some dogs who are vaccinated with Lepto- spirosis die of renal failure within 48 hours: the same type of pathology that the actual disease could create. Dr. Ronald Schultz recognizes this risk and advises that you better be sure of the reason you are injecting because any time you inject, you could kill the patient.

It appears that Microbiologist Antoine Bechamp was correct about disease and the theory of “terrain”. Terrain theorystates that it is the individual’s system that determines disease and the individual response to antigen within the patient’s immune cells. Multiple administrations of vaccines over sensitize the patient to a real crisis, and when antigen and immune cells collide, disease results.

Antibiotic treatment is quickly effective for Leptospirosis, 57 as is the use of homeopathy.You must realize however that the germ is not the problem: the individual’s immune system is the determinant. Optimal nutrition is the key to immune health and prior genetic damage from vaccines is also of consequence. In regard to the Leptospira vaccine, the new genetically engineered products will not be proven any safer than earlier products. They will unleash this vaccine without really knowing if the vaccine is safe or effective, just as they have for all the vaccines that have come before.Intervet Schering Plough is revving up for their annual vaccine marketing campaign in the UK, promoting their vaccines on the questionable need for the vaccine in the first place.58 The only protection from this marketing mania is to know the lack of science behind both the manufacturing and administration of these vaccines:. Although drug companies are responsible for vaccine safety, they are not held accountable and there will be no recourse against these marketing giants if your pet becomes ill: a practice which Dr. Ron Schultz calls indefensible.


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## BearMurphy (Feb 29, 2012)

if she won't be going hiking/hunting/having contact with wildlife I would not even think of giving the vaccine


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## lily (May 16, 2011)

Liz said:


> Karen,
> 
> How are you. I hope you are enjoying your little Betsey. I would not under any circumstances vaccinate for Lepto. There are not enough incidences of the disease and the vaccine carries far more dangers than Lepto. Lepto can be easily treated with anti biotics or homeopathically. Here is a really good article Smoke and Mirrors | The Leptospirosis Vaccine for Dogs. I took some excerpts out of it and pasted them here for you. Please go and read the whole article though for total information. I really hope you decide to skip this vaccine.
> 
> ...


Thanks for taking the time to post that great reply Liz,betsy is good ,doing well on raw tho I have to admit to still struggling with portion size lol ,started her on pork this week and she loves it,I did not want to feed chicken due to my fear of chicken allergy !but braved my fear and gave her a chicken wing and she devoured it like a pro ,anyway less of the rambling!and back to the vacs question,the way I have read the information there are no guarantee that the vacs will even work and it would need to be given every few months also humans can contract the disease from vaccinated dogs please correct me if I'm wrong,I am going to cancel the appointment and skip this vaccination I do not want to repeat of allergies and this vacs sounds like the culprit to bring on skin troubles,karen


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## lily (May 16, 2011)

BearMurphy said:


> if she won't be going hiking/hunting/having contact with wildlife I would not even think of giving the vaccine


Nope,nope and nope lol,just to the park ,thanks ,karen


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

That's how I feel Karen. Lepto is not a killer disease and is easily treatable on the off chance you or she gets it. Again, remember you have given her a great immune system and incredible health and care. She is not a great candidate to get anything really. She should be able to fight most any disease out there. It sounded more of an issue in tropical areas - I think Bali had the most incidence so maybe if I live in Bali I might consider it but even there I think I would rather treat it and let the dog develop her own immunities to it.  

Feeding - I know exactly how you feel. One of my shelties can only get 6-7 ounces of food or she gets huge, fast. She always looks at me like I am starving her to death and to be honest the portion does look tiny. I can't imagine feeding even less - I would need therapy. LOL I am glad your little one is doing well.


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## lily (May 16, 2011)

Every time I go to the fridge she's like on a bit of elastic back and forth ,eyes popping ,I can just see her mind going round and round screaming me me me food food food !,is there anything else she needs apart from raw to keep her in top health?see here I go again with the paranoid mind set,I am getting better honest ,but it is very daunting going against the vacs regime ,tho I know she had the vacs 2weeks ago but only half dose,it's not the norm to not have dogs vaccinated ,karen


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## Kat (Jul 12, 2011)

If I were you, I wouldnt get it. The vaccine doesnt even protect against all the different strains of the lepto. I stupidly got it for Ruby after my old vet scared me into it. She had the scariest allergic reaction, she ended up looking like a shar-pei. Ever since then, she has developed several allergies, including to kibble which is why I switched to raw.


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## lily (May 16, 2011)

Kat said:


> If I were you, I wouldnt get it. The vaccine doesnt even protect against all the different strains of the lepto. I stupidly got it for Ruby after my old vet scared me into it. She had the scariest allergic reaction, she ended up looking like a shar-pei. Ever since then, she has developed several allergies, including to kibble which is why I switched to raw.


This is my thoughts exactly after having to put Annie to sleep due to horrendous allergies due to vacs damage it's scared me,more so this vacs,karen


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

Karen

I hate to break this to you but it is against the norm to feed your dogs real food and not kibble. LOL You are well on your way to non conformity - YAY! conformity really is over rated.  Just relax and know that just with raw feeding you little one is in the top percentages for health and immune system health. Please re read that article again especially toward the end and see how little the manufactures and vets really know about vaccines. They claim to know all but that is not the case and they do not hesitate to dump these toxins into your baby. Remember she is your girl and just like with people doctors don't always know best. Plus should she actually contract something you have this whole board at your beck and call to help you through.  You are not alone.


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## lily (May 16, 2011)

I've come to realise that these vacs are unsafe but I decided on the first ones and regretted it after but it's done now ,even lots of human drugs are unsafe ,I know this to my ignorance and reliance on drs,when one of my daughters became very ill at 3yrs old I let the drs do a brain scan with dye pumped into her brain,before the proceedure she could walk,talk,eat but after she could do nothing for 3 months and they still told me it was safe!,if things like this happen to humans then I very much doubt that the manufacturers of dog drugs even think once let alone twice about the damage they cause,never thought about my feeding raw going against the grain I just so enjoy feeding it,and it's good to know I can turn to my friends here for any help were greedy guts is concerned,for all of us here this forum is our life line of doggy care lol,karen


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## chowder (Sep 7, 2008)

lily said:


> I've come to realise that these vacs are unsafe but I decided on the first ones and regretted it after but it's done now ,even lots of human drugs are unsafe ,I know this to my ignorance and reliance on drs,when one of my daughters became very ill at 3yrs old I let the drs do a brain scan with dye pumped into her brain,before the proceedure she could walk,talk,eat but after she could do nothing for 3 months and they still told me it was safe!,if things like this happen to humans then I very much doubt that the manufacturers of dog drugs even think once let alone twice about the damage they cause,never thought about my feeding raw going against the grain I just so enjoy feeding it,and it's good to know I can turn to my friends here for any help were greedy guts is concerned,for all of us here this forum is our life line of doggy care lol,karen


We can't go back and undo things in our past. I always wonder if I hadn't let my kids be vaccinated, maybe my one son would not have developed Type I diabetes which is an autoimmune response that the body has against itself. But, when he was a baby, they gave them TONS of vaccinations, all at the same time. Same with all my past puppies and their health problems. 

But, we can learn and that is why my new puppy (in August) has it written right in the contract that it is not suppose to be given any vaccinations if at all possible, be fed raw food, and not be neutered until 2 years old. I still have a lot to learn but I am trying to start this new baby out in the right direction. 

As far as the lepto vaccine - even my regular vet doesn't give it anymore. I wasn't sure any vets gave it anymore. Rocky has never had one. He has only had a DHPP and Rabies and his last one was 3 years ago when he turned 1 1/2 and the state required the rabies. 

Listen to Liz.... she is the guru of the board as far as natural health care for dogs!


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## Chocx2 (Nov 16, 2009)

Well I can tell you I didn't get a lot of vaccines when I was young, and I think I'm older than you guys, I caught everything lol three day measles, regular measles, mumps, chicken pox, lets see, can't remember others, but I was fine for all of them. They all ran their coarse don't know why they don't do this now?

And when my son got measles I didn't catch them, I think because I already had them.


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## shellbell (Sep 24, 2011)

Tux had a bad reaction to the lepto vaccine when he was a baby. This was prior to my adopting him, I was told about it by his foster mom. She took him for his first round of puppy shots which included lepto. His face swelled up super bad, and she had to rush him back to the vet. The vet concluded it was the lepto that did this, since that is what dogs react to the most. 

And my own vet said he sees more cases of lepto vaccine reactions than actual lepto. I would not get this shot. And like others have said, lepto itself is treatable.


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## lily (May 16, 2011)

I phoned to cancel the appointment today,the receptionist was quite adamant that I book another as the vacs is very important,I stood my ground and said no Thankyou,I'm pleased I haven't given her this vacs,karen


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

my own vet, who is the vaccine king, does not recommend this one, karen.


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

I am glad for you and little Betsey. Less is more.


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