# Rotation list....



## meggels (May 30, 2010)

So the other thread got me thinking....I guess I'm not "rotating" Abbie, but rather, always just trying new foods. Do you guys think there's a problem with this? 

If so...how do you come up with a list of a few foods that you rotate? Making sure they get good variety is important to me...and I'm only sticking with a few kibble companies from now on....


Here are the kibbles she's been on recently that she has done really well on.

1) Earthborn Holistic- Great Plains Feast (bison meal protein based)
2) Fromm Chicken A La Veg
3) Fromm Pork & Applesauce



I also have a 14lb bag of Fromm's Gamebird Recipe to try next (already bought) which I think she will do well on. I also wanted to try her on an Acana formula eventually lol.

But, maybe I do just need to pick 3 or 4 kibbles to rotate her through and stop trying new ones all the time. 

What do you think of this list?

1) Earthborn Great Plains Feast (grain free bison based)
2) Fromm Duck & Sweet Potato (duck based)
3) Fromm Pork & Applesauce (pork based)
4) Acana Ranchlands or Earthborn Holistic's Meadow Feast (for a grain free lamb based kibble)


Do you think this is a solid variety? I try to steer clear of fish based foods for her because that has been one protein she doesn't seem to do as well on (loose stools). So I'd have to try the Acana to see if she does okay because it does have a few fish meals high up on the ingredient list.


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## twotonelover (Jan 10, 2011)

When my dog was on kibble, I would just buy a different brand/formula after the bag was gone, which was usually once a month depending on the size of the bag. I always considered this "rotating" and I think what your doing is similar. I think whatever works for you is fine. Some dogs can do a daily rotation, some can only do a weekly or monthly rotation. I just did a "once the bag is gone" rotation because I didn't like having multiple bags open at one time as I was worried about spoilage or the food going stale.

I was trying new foods almost every other bag, but my two base foods were EVO weight management and Orijen 6 Fish. I would usually do something like EVO, then a new food, then Orijen, then a new food, then back to EVO and so on. My beagle has a stomach of steel so this worked fine for her haha Obviously a more sensitive dog, this wouldn't work for. I think the variety you have is pretty good


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## chowder (Sep 7, 2008)

I think of it this way. If she were your human child, would you restrict her to just 4 types of food her whole life and say that was it? And do you limit yourself to just 4 types of food in your diet ? Or do you go out and try new things all the time? With human children we are always encouraging them to try new things and enjoy their food and branch out. Yet we think our dogs should stick to one thing that gives them perfect poo every time. 

I say give them a wide variety of things. The more the better, so that they are exposed to different proteins. Unless you find one that makes them break out in hives, then cross that off the list. Red skin and rashes are the only thing that keeps me from ever giving a food a second time on a normal, healthy dog. 

Today I gave Rocky his absolutely favorite breakfast of sardines and raw eggs. I know it's gonna make him gassy and give him a bit of the runs later...... but it's good for him and he was in doggy heaven !! I still give him beef sometimes, even though he will get a bit of the runs, because he needs it. He just gets small amounts of it at a time.


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## Celt (Dec 27, 2010)

I would do a "rotation" of kibble that involved buying 1 to 3 bags (depending on how many I had open at home) of whatever I felt like, was new, or on sale. Then the pups would get something "different" everyday. Something like this: M-tast of the wild, T-Innova, W-biljac, TH-one of the previous foods, F-Repeat of Thursday. The next week might be: M-Innova, T-Natural pet meat roll, W-Taste of the wild (different flavor, if previous bag was finished), Th-anything new or repeat, F-repeat. Sometimes it was the same brand for a couple of days.I generally wouldn't buy a new bag til I was down some or if the pups' didn't "like" a food. Usually, I would try to get a "variety of flavors" and of course there was a selection of toppers to go along with the kibble. I'm a strong beliver that "limiting" a dog's diet sets them up for digestive upsets. I feel that feeding an "unlimited" variety helps a pup develop an "iron gut".


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## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

The more variety the better. Obviously steer clear of foods she does poorly on but just like raw I think it's good to get in a solid variety of protein sources. I think what you are doing is fine and leads to having a more healthy gut.


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## Unosmom (May 3, 2009)

question- did you ever find out what % of meat protein does earthborn really have? I've contacted them before and they said it was a proprietary info and they could not release it, which makes me leery of the company as a whole. It has peas and pea protein as 2nd and 3rd ingredient, and considering that bison is quite expensive, I doubt theres much of it in this formula, so I would personally pick Acana over it, but of course the price reflects the ingredients.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

It's def more price friendly than the Acana. I never found out, but she does phenomenal on the food (she's been on it several times), so I don't rule it out of her "rotation" lol. That would be for a red meat formula, unless someone else has a suggestion of a good red meat that is somewhat budget friendly (no more than Acana) and from a good company


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## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

meggels said:


> It's def more price friendly than the Acana. I never found out, but she does phenomenal on the food (she's been on it several times), so I don't rule it out of her "rotation" lol. That would be for a red meat formula, unless someone else has a suggestion of a good red meat that is somewhat budget friendly (no more than Acana) and from a good company


Orijen is more expensive than Acana, but for my cats at least it's a bit cheaper to feed because they need much less of it.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

Orijen is out of the budget


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## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

Have you fed it before? I know it's expensive per bag but as I said it's actually a bit cheaper than Acana to fed (not much) just because it's richer and the cats need less to keep their weight on. It's hard for me to suggest foods because the prices here in Canada are so different. I also like Horizon Legacy (cats wouldn't eat it, but ingredient wise it's a good food). It's another 80% animal product food. Darford Zero G is good also. Is EVO in your price range? Here it's quite a bit cheaper than Orijen..


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

Evo is in the price range I think, but I'm trying to stick with only a particular few companies that I feel confident in their manufacturing practices.


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## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

I dunno. If I were you I'd consider EVO. It's in my cats' rotation, they love it, and I haven't noticed any change in smell, colour, etc of the kibble, and they still do GREAT on it. I was leery of P&G at first, but, I feel it would have been dumb of them to change Natura since it's primarily food concious people that feed it to their dogs. It has good ingredients at a good price point, better IMO than the other foods on your list. Of course, how your dog does on it is important, too.

Just my opinion. :smile:


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

I just worry mostly now about production practices. Do you know anything about Evo's? I for sure would consider it if I knew they practiced better manufacturing/production practices than most. For example, I'm pretty much avoiding anything Diamond produced. I sort of want foods that manufacture their own formulas.


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## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

From what I've gathered the dry food is produced at the Natura factory- not sold out to other ones. The canned is, I think. 

I just love the food because it's one of the only healthier ones that they will eat LOL. They won't touch Fromm, most Acana/Orijen formulas, Horizon, ToTW.. it's the highest in protein that I've seen, too.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

I would be curious to see how Abbie does on a "richer" food. I think the highest protein food I've fed her was Earthborn's Primitive Natural (which she also did quite well on).


Turkey Meal, Chicken Meal, Whitefish Meal, Potatoes, Chicken Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols, a source of vitamin E), Dried Egg Product, Tomato Pomace, Apples, Blueberries, Carrots, Peas, Spinach, Garlic, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Taurine, Cottage Cheese, L-Lysine, DL-Methionine, Beta-Carotene, Calcium Carbonate, Zinc Oxide, Magnesium Proteinate, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Niacin, D-Calcium Pantothenic Acid, Vitamin A Supplement, L-Carnitine, Vitamin B12 Supplement, L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of Vitamin C), Ferrous Sulfate, Biotin, Riboflavin (Vitamin B2), Thiamine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B1), Calcium Iodate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B6), Vitamin D3 Supplement, Folic Acid, Manganese Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Zinc Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Dried Lactobacillus Plantarum Fermentation Product, Dried Enterococcus Faecium Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus Casei Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product.


Protein: Not less than 38%
Fat: Not less than 20%
Fiber: Not more than 2.5%



I also worry about higher protein foods for her because I feel like her lifestyle doesn't fully justify it?


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## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

meggels said:


> I would be curious to see how Abbie does on a "richer" food. I think the highest protein food I've fed her was Earthborn's Primitive Natural (which she also did quite well on).
> 
> 
> Turkey Meal, Chicken Meal, Whitefish Meal, Potatoes, Chicken Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols, a source of vitamin E), Dried Egg Product, Tomato Pomace, Apples, Blueberries, Carrots, Peas, Spinach, Garlic, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Taurine, Cottage Cheese, L-Lysine, DL-Methionine, Beta-Carotene, Calcium Carbonate, Zinc Oxide, Magnesium Proteinate, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Niacin, D-Calcium Pantothenic Acid, Vitamin A Supplement, L-Carnitine, Vitamin B12 Supplement, L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of Vitamin C), Ferrous Sulfate, Biotin, Riboflavin (Vitamin B2), Thiamine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B1), Calcium Iodate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B6), Vitamin D3 Supplement, Folic Acid, Manganese Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Zinc Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Dried Lactobacillus Plantarum Fermentation Product, Dried Enterococcus Faecium Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus Casei Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product.
> ...


Lifestyle doesn't matter. You feed Murph raw, right? If you take all the moisture out of raw, it's high protein.. upwards of 60%. You just have to control the amount taken in so she doesn't gain weight (and she doesn't seem like the type of dog that gains weight easily). In my opinion carbs are unnecessary for dogs anyway.. just hard on the pancreas.. and EVO is a pretty low carb diet.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

Caty M said:


> Lifestyle doesn't matter. You feed Murph raw, right? If you take all the moisture out of raw, it's high protein.. upwards of 60%. You just have to control the amount taken in so she doesn't gain weight (and she doesn't seem like the type of dog that gains weight easily). In my opinion carbs are unnecessary for dogs anyway.. just hard on the pancreas.. and EVO is a pretty low carb diet.



I do feed him raw...but it does have the moisture...so doesn't that kinda cancel that out? (Not trying to bicker, trying to understand lol).


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## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

meggels said:


> I do feed him raw...but it does have the moisture...so doesn't that kinda cancel that out? (Not trying to bicker, trying to understand lol).


Adding water to the EVO will lower the protein percentage to that of raw. :wink: Water just makes the diet more or less concentrated- the AMOUNT of protein in the diet will be the same no matter how much water you add.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

Lol okay. Thanks for being interrogated  


Sometimes this scientific crap goes right over my head :tongue:

I'll try her on Orijen & Evo at some point *and add water, though, I already do that anyways*.

Have a feeling that she will need to be bumped back to 1 and 1/4 cup twice a day though on those two (vs the 1.5 cups twice a day now). No loose poopies please


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## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

Haha, no problem. A bag of Orijen (around 5-ish lb) or EVO lasts my two kitties around two months. They do get some meat added to their meals, though. I bet Abbie needs more than them, though!


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## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

Dude isn't a performance dog or anything and he is fed raw. His lifestyle doesn't "justify" his diet either. He's just a companion dog who is fed a high protein diet. It shouldn't matter what they do. I'm with Caty on this one  I've always liked the sound of EVO.


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## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

I kind of think about it like this- an active person and a couch potato SHOULD be eating the same foods, just different amounts. :smile:


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

that's a good point


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## Javadoo (May 23, 2011)

In my rotation right now:
\
TOTW Pacific Stream
TOTW High Prairie
TOTW Sierra Mountain

Fromm Gamebird
Fromm Salmon Tunalini
Fromm Surf & Turf
Fromm Beef Fritatta

NV Instinct Duck & Turkey Meal
Now!
Go!

I look at foods carefully, do alot of research...if I see something that looks good and I'd like to try, I buy a couple of bags and try it out. If it works out great, it stays in the rotation. If they do ok on it but not great, I don't keep it in. I can usually tell within a few days-a week if there is something not working for my girls in a food (they'll get super-goopy eyes or start itching). 

All the foods I feed are grain free.

I am a huge fan of Fromm foods...so if I had to pick one food to feed exclusively it would be Fromm. I was super excited when they came out with 2 new grain free varieties (both of which my girls do great on).


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## chowder (Sep 7, 2008)

I wouldn't worry about the protein in EVO. Chelsy was 14 and did great on it. It was the only food she could have because it had fewer of the 'extra' ingredients like the vegies and fruits that all the other ones toss in. I actually don't like buying a food that has a lot of extra ingredients and would try to keep those to a minimum anyway. 

I kept all the dogs on EVO, from the 8 week old Chihuhua puppy to the 14 year old Lhasa and they did fine with the protein level. I didn't notice any change in it at all after the buy out.


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## InkedMarie (Sep 9, 2011)

Since she can eat anything, why don't you try her on some Honest Kitchen? She cab have grains so maybe try some Keen or Thrive; I wouldn't feed Verve because the first ingredient is rye.


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## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

InkedMarie said:


> Since she can eat anything, why don't you try her on some Honest Kitchen? She cab have grains so maybe try some Keen or Thrive; I wouldn't feed Verve because the first ingredient is rye.


I always heard HK is expensive.. I know nothing about it, though. You add ground raw meat to it right?


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## InkedMarie (Sep 9, 2011)

Caty M said:


> I always heard HK is expensive.. I know nothing about it, though. You add ground raw meat to it right?


A 10lb box equals 40lbs of food. Their grainfree's are, at my most local store: Force (chicken) $72, Embark (turkey) $75, Love (beef) at the most local store that sells it $95 and Zeal (fish) at the most local store that sells it $108.
Thrive and Keen are grain inclusive, I think Thrive is chicken but not positive, Keen is turkey. They are around $45-$50 a box. The Preference is the one you are talking about, where you must add your meat protein of choice and I've never looked at it so I can't tell you the price.
People see the prices and think "holy shyt, that's alot for 10lbs" but don't realize that makes 40lbs of food


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## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

InkedMarie said:


> A 10lb box equals 40lbs of food. Their grainfree's are, at my most local store: Force (chicken) $72, Embark (turkey) $75, Love (beef) at the most local store that sells it $95 and Zeal (fish) at the most local store that sells it $108.
> Thrive and Keen are grain inclusive, I think Thrive is chicken but not positive, Keen is turkey. They are around $45-$50 a box. The Preference is the one you are talking about, where you must add your meat protein of choice and I've never looked at it so I can't tell you the price.
> People see the prices and think "holy shyt, that's alot for 10lbs" but don't realize that makes 40lbs of food


I know it makes 40lb of food, but that's water inclusive. Wouldn't that be the same as selling a 10lb bag of kibble for $75, but if you add 30lb of water it makes 40lb of food? Are the ingredients better than a kibble?


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## InkedMarie (Sep 9, 2011)

Caty M said:


> I know it makes 40lb of food, but that's water inclusive. Wouldn't that be the same as selling a 10lb bag of kibble for $75, but if you add 30lb of water it makes 40lb of food? Are the ingredients better than a kibble?


Well, I'm not feeding double because it's water inclusive. One of mine, 32lb, gets half a cup of dry THK per meal. Makes a good amount of food when rehydrated. I think the ingredients are great, it's why I feed it. I think the company is one of the best out there. Have a question, ask, they answer. Call on the phone, they answer or call you back. Open and honest communication and that's important, to me. My dogs love it, do well on it and that's also important to me!


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## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

InkedMarie said:


> Well, I'm not feeding double because it's water inclusive. One of mine, 32lb, gets half a cup of dry THK per meal. Makes a good amount of food when rehydrated. I think the ingredients are great, it's why I feed it. I think the company is one of the best out there. Have a question, ask, they answer. Call on the phone, they answer or call you back. Open and honest communication and that's important, to me. My dogs love it, do well on it and that's also important to me!


I guess it's just the price that I can't get over. How much per day does he get dry? One cup (two meals?) If you were to feed kibble, would he not get around one cup too?

Not bashing your choice, honestly curious!


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

I think HK is out of price range :-X Also confused as to how long it would last lol. 

I do have a bunch of samples though that I will add as topper to hound's food.


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## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

Yeah. It seems like a lot of money. As far as I can see dry HK is just like kibble, only less processed. So ~$8/lb seems like a lot.

What about Back to Basics? I hear a lot of people liking that food, but I've never seen it here so don't know the cost.


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## InkedMarie (Sep 9, 2011)

Caty M said:


> I guess it's just the price that I can't get over. How much per day does he get dry? One cup (two meals?) If you were to feed kibble, would he not get around one cup too?
> 
> Not bashing your choice, honestly curious!


oops, I said he gets half a cup dry per meal; I forgot to say he gets two meals per day! So, he gets a total of one cup dry per meal. If he ate kibble, he'd get about the same, depending on the kibble. I think he ate a little less Orijen but that was a couple years ago when we were trying to get a couple pounds off of him. 
My dogs just love this stuff. We put it in Kongs too and freeze them, if we're going to be gone and can't feed them. I am dogsitting for my boss, his labradoodle loves this stuff too, I made the mistake of putting a little on her kibble as a topper but had to stop as she didn't want her kibble!


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## InkedMarie (Sep 9, 2011)

meggels said:


> I think HK is out of price range :-X Also confused as to how long it would last lol.
> 
> I do have a bunch of samples though that I will add as topper to hound's food.


The grain inclusive is $50 a ten pound box or less; the smaller box is less money, obviously but the larger box is the better buy.


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## DaViking (Sep 27, 2011)

I am old school and have never given rotation much thought. Looking at our own diet we eat a good variety but it is pretty stable from week to week. With Chips I am trying out rotation for the first time and figured something like 3 to 6 different formulas, canned toppers similar in profile to the kibble and the odd organ is a good way to go. That might change as we go along. When I say 3 to 6 different formulas I mean different. The first one being chicken and the next one being turkey is not really different enough if everything else being the same too. I'd like the formulas to be very different. We do take our time though, 1 formula exclusively for 12 straight weeks before I decide if it stays or goes. I am not 100% sure what feeding cycle will be the best one for the kibble. Semi randomly throughout the week or one bag after another?

So far our list isn't that impressive. I thought he liked Back To Basics Pork but for some reason he decided to not like it in the end. Wouldn't even touch it as a snack or a treat. Tried everything but he simply refused to eat it anymore. So far we have only Horizon Legacy and Horizon Complete on the list. B2B is currently out in favor of testing Canine Plus Wholesome Blend Read Meat Turf GF formula. Lol, I know, it's all very Canadian  Kind'a coincidental but I guess they have decent shelf exposure up here. Next in q for testing is NutriSource.


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## Deaf Dogs (Apr 10, 2012)

I feed a different food every meal. Mine get anything really... well good quality anything  Right now, I have

Dry:
Acana Ranchland
Acana lamb and apple
Fromm Pork and applesauce
Addiction Kangaroo and apple
Addiction venisen
Canidae (cant remember the variety)
Chicken Soup for the Dog Lover's Soul
Natural Balance Bison and sweet potato
Merrick Wilderness Blend
First Mate Chicken and Blueberries

Canned:
Merrick 5 star entrees (all different varieties)
Blue's Stew
Addiction
Tripette
Fromm

Dehydrated foods:
Addiction Vive la Venison
Canisource
K9 Naturals Beef
K9 Naturals Tripe

Plus I'll feed raw chicken legs, or backs or necks, or turkey necks, or oxtails. I feed veggies, fruit, sardines, Scrambled eggs, Olive Oil, Salmon Oil, Primrose Oil, Kelp, and various herbs.

Boo cant eat the higher protein foods, as he gets really bad diarrhea, so he only rotates between the lower end foods. Mouse cant have canned food, as she is allergic to metal, so she gets the dehydrated foods instead. Oliver cant eat raw meat, as he gets very sick from it.


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## Shamrockmommy (Sep 10, 2009)

I've rotated around for years with my dogs. 
Currently I am super happy with California Natural (grain free) line, there are 5 protein types. In addition to that, i also feed HK as a topper (always with water) instead of cans. I feel like THK is much less processed and they still get the benefit of real food. They also get bi-weekly RMBs and are doing very well on this combo.

So my little girls (bichons) get 1 T of HK in their bowl, 1/3 cup dry, and then I add warm water to hydrate the HK and swirl it all around. My PWD gets 2T HK and 2/3 cup dry with the water as well. I added up the cost of feeding these amounts and it comes down to $1.93 per day. I use HK grain free lines, Thrive, Embark, Zeal, Love. And it's even better if I can get a coupon! 

HTH. As long as your dog tolerates rotating, I'm all for it.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

I might try some HK Marie....

Going to see how much I can get it for, since I currently get everything at cost.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

A 4lb box makes 16lb's of food it says...so I would think that like kibble...that should get Abbie through a month...or close to it.

I do like the idea of doing something like Honest Kitchen, since it's less processed....


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## DaViking (Sep 27, 2011)

meggels said:


> A 4lb box makes 16lb's of food it says...so I would think that like kibble...that should get Abbie through a month...or close to it.
> 
> I do like the idea of doing something like Honest Kitchen, since it's less processed....


It's less processed but high in carbs which will produce a higher glycemic load. I would def feed a little less THK than recommended and instead add in Evo canned or other sources of quality proteins and fat.


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## InkedMarie (Sep 9, 2011)

DaViking said:


> It's less processed but high in carbs which will produce a higher glycemic load. I would def feed a little less THK than recommended and instead add in Evo canned or other sources of quality proteins and fat.


This is not true for all of their varieties. Meg, they have a great link on thk's website to compare their foods. Some are low Carb, some high, some have high fat, some low. If you need help finding the chart, let me know. The store I buybthk at printed up the chart, at my suggestion, for customers. It's a great resource.


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## DaViking (Sep 27, 2011)

InkedMarie said:


> This is not true for all of their varieties. Meg, they have a great link on thk's website to compare their foods. Some are low Carb, some high, some have high fat, some low. If you need help finding the chart, let me know. The store I buybthk at printed up the chart, at my suggestion, for customers. It's a great resource.


Unless they have some new formulas out it's true for all of them. Their "low carb" alternatives Embark and Thrive still contains around 40 to 45% carbohydrates with potatoes and sweet potatoes providing the bulk of the carbs. Add to that 6 to 11% fiber. When feeding this much carbohydrates I see no point in using potatoes over old school quality grains or legumes/pulses. Potatoes only make sense imho if used in limited amounts. I'd add raw or cooked animal proteins and fats/oils and reduce the recommended amount of THK somewhat. Just my $0.02


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## InkedMarie (Sep 9, 2011)

Embark is 35% carbs, Thrive is 37% carbs. Zeal, their fish variety, is 37%


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## DaViking (Sep 27, 2011)

InkedMarie said:


> Embark is 35% carbs, Thrive is 37% carbs. Zeal, their fish variety, is 37%


Regardless of how you choose to calculate the carbohydrates for their "low carb" alternatives it will still be in the 35% to 45% range. Calling that a low carb diet is a stretch. Just marketing and not really honest at all in my book. Secondly they use potatoes as main carb source, @ 40% it will produce a glycemic load around 32, which is high. That is double the glycemic load of comparable grain free competitors and about triple the load of good low impact formulas used where low sugar levels are desired.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

So would you consider some of the kibbles I mentioned (Earthborn, Acana, Evo, Fromm) etc to be better than THK? Even though they are more processed?


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## DaViking (Sep 27, 2011)

meggels said:


> So would you consider some of the kibbles I mentioned (Earthborn, Acana, Evo, Fromm) etc to be better than THK? Even though they are more processed?


I don't like to use the word better too much because there is always so many if's and but's. THK "watered down" so to speak with more fat and proteins would be good but then it starts to be crazy expensive. If I don't remember wrong Embark is already @ $85 or something per 10lbs/40lbs. But to answer your question, yes personally I would feed any of the above before THK. If I wanted less processing I'd look into something like K9Naturals or Ziwipeak, which is also expensive alternatives.


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## NotAChampionFan (Apr 6, 2012)

DaViking said:


> Regardless of how you choose to calculate the carbohydrates for their "low carb" alternatives it will still be in the 35% to 45% range. Calling that a low carb diet is a stretch. Just marketing and not really honest at all in my book. Secondly they use potatoes as main carb source, @ 40% it will produce a glycemic load around 32, which is high. That is double the glycemic load of comparable grain free competitors and about triple the load of good low impact formulas used where low sugar levels are desired.


I love your choice of words "old school quality grains". You obviously have little to no experience with dogs in competitive events. If you want to make money and retire bet every person on this forum (except for me) that virtually every dog that wins a sledding event, hunt trial of any kind, coursing, agility, fly-ball, bench, what ever event there is, eats a diet with rice, corn, oats or barley that is 20% - 40% carbs by calories. You can double the bet by specifying they eat Pro Plan Performance or Eukanuba Premium 30/20.

In no time you will be sailing around Catalina Island.

DaViking I admire your zeal for details, but keep in mind the youngest person ever to win the Iditarod and the 11 time winner of the North American Open Championship both use Dr. Tim's with "old school grains". The Silver and Bronze winners last year on the Eastern Circuit both feed Annamaet Ultra with no supplementation and it has some corn.

About 50% of hunt trial champions last year ate nothing but Pro Plan.

So you talk about the glycemic index all you want, and chit chat about Prey Model this and that, but I can assure you that in professional circles you would be laughed out of the room.


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## NotAChampionFan (Apr 6, 2012)

meggels said:


> So would you consider some of the kibbles I mentioned (Earthborn, Acana, Evo, Fromm) etc to be better than THK? Even though they are more processed?


Meggels, stop worrying. Pick one food they like and you like buying and just feed it. Don't let a bunch of amateurs spend your money.


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## InkedMarie (Sep 9, 2011)

NotAChampionFan said:


> Meggels, stop worrying. Pick one food they like and you like buying and just feed it. Don't let a bunch of amateurs spend your money.


Well, Meg, lookee who's here.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

My dogs aren't competing though. And even if those dogs are winning currently, they may not be healthy at the END of their lives, because of the inappropriate ingredients. So while I appreciate your input, I am by no means going to start feeding my dog Pro Plan. 

Btw, I know someone whose mother has raced in the Iditarod several times and she was not feeding such foods...


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## NotAChampionFan (Apr 6, 2012)

meggels said:


> My dogs aren't competing though. And even if those dogs are winning currently, they may not be healthy at the END of their lives, because of the inappropriate ingredients. So while I appreciate your input, I am by no means going to start feeding my dog Pro Plan.
> 
> Btw, I know someone whose mother has raced in the Iditarod several times and she was not feeding such foods...


Well you can believe what you want. It is silly to argue against success. It is your money and your time. Most of the brands you see recommended on here come from companies with no staff nutritionist, no staff Vet, no testing kennel and zero experience with dogs. In fact the guy that owns The Honest Kitchen with his wife was a car designer. The nutritionist there has no education but she is a pet sitter LOL

I don't use Pro Plan, but there are only three foods I would use: Annamaet, Red Paw & Dr. Tim's, whichever was easiest to get. I don't pretend to know more than the guys running those companies.

You certainly have bought into the Blue Buffalo commercial " We love Bailey like family so we feed him like family". 

Bailey is a dog.


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## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

Does a four pound bag of kibble last Abbie a month? Calorie for calorie HK and kibble are basically the same. So if you fed one cup/day of Orijen, you would feed around one cup/day of THK. I just feel that Orijen is a much better deal imo. However if your dog does well on it.. well you can't put a price on that. 

Oh and "NotAChampionFan".. I know several top competitors in agility and sled racing around here and none that I know feed junk like that. Most are fed a BARF style raw.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

It is silly to argue against success. I've seen my hound be completely healthy and NEVER to the vet for an illness in her 2.5 years alive on premium foods. That is a success to me so far. She's BEAUTIFUL, shiny, glossy, soft as velvet and pure muscle. The vet even commented on how she was in "working condition" when she was there for her heartworm test a few weeks ago. Winning.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

Caty- She can last a month on about a 12lb or so bag of food.

I am gonna try her on Orijen, I think I will def need to back her down in amount per day unless I wanna give her diarrhea lol. It's by far gonna be the richest food she's been on yet!


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## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

Yeah.. definitely feed less LOL. Does she have a strong stomach?

From the pics I've seen of Abbie she is in good shape.. nice and lean.

Oh and Mr Champion hater, When I rescued my basset she was on a diet high in corn and rice, now raw fed.. and she is so much less greasy, smelly, she's lost weight and has more energy. So there.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

I tend to think yes she does, but I think only when it comes to kibbles and stuff. 

There have been several incidents where I've given her either 1 measly chicken neck, or one tbsp of wet food, and I came home from work the next day to cannon butt all over my apartment


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## DaViking (Sep 27, 2011)

NotAChampionFan said:


> I love your choice of words "old school quality grains". You obviously have little to no experience with dogs in competitive events. If you want to make money and retire bet every person on this forum (except for me) that virtually every dog that wins a sledding event, hunt trial of any kind, coursing, agility, fly-ball, bench, what ever event there is, eats a diet with rice, corn, oats or barley that is 20% - 40% carbs by calories. You can double the bet by specifying they eat Pro Plan Performance or Eukanuba Premium 30/20.
> 
> In no time you will be sailing around Catalina Island.
> 
> ...


You are annoying as hell, you know that right? On one of the few things we agree on you are still busting my balls. I think you are missing the whole point that I use "old school grains" as a positive thing since I believe they are more appropriate and a better choice in many circumstances. Sometimes the best.

Before you go to far on your rant. Not because it should mean too much to anyone else on this forum but things like this obviously mean something to you. I have trained, certified and lead SAR dogs, operating under the most difficult circumstances possible. I have trained and prepared champion dogs for Robert Sørlie while I lived in my home country. How's that for professional circles? I did/do that for money so I guess that makes me a professional. If you have any idea what you are talking about you already now where I am from, if not then all you are is hot steam. Btw; Professional circles has moved on too but I guess it takes a while before the news hits the boonies.

Sometimes I don't think you read anything here really. You see something that get your blood boiling and then you fire off some nonsense rant. If you could get your blood pressure under control and get to know what the different ppl here are about you would understand that I'd personally take grains over potatoes etc. any day and that I do not feed PMR or any other raw way. One of the foods I currently feed is an "old school" grain inclusive formula very popular among Canadian mushers. So is their GF formulas by the way. Oh noes, mushers using grain free formulas, the end must be near  Heck I have even defended your views now and then when you posted under another nick. Beats me why I did it now.

20% carbs? Sounds good to me.

See here's an issue with you, you really don't say anything in the end. You for example make fun of me making a point of knowing the glycemic load you are feeding your dogs but you don't make any effort to explain why you think that is laughable. Now, here's what I think you should do. Kill this moronic new nick of yours. Re-register under something new that's not plain dumb. Then, participate with your views, opinions and knowledge without turning to personal attacks, arrogance and off topic rants. Shows us your kennel, show us your dogs and your merits. Don't be a dick. If you want to liberate and promote corn do so right here, but no one will listen if all you do is arrogant rants. If you can do that you'll see that you probably have more ppl agreeing with you on various topics than you thought.


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## Belles Mom (Jun 24, 2011)

My rotation includes 

THK (grain free varieties) that I add an equal amount of raw meat to, 

Grandma Lucy's (at cost, very economical)

NDF2 occaisionly (but it has a bit too much grain so it plays a minor part of the rotation...I get it "free" for boarding a friends dog)

Kibbles include

TOTW
Canindae
Nature's Variety Instinct
Nature's Variety Prairie

I feed kibble a couple meals a week. Once I switched to the "semi-raw" (THK and Grandma Lucy's) the improvement in my dogs appearance and overall health was dramatic.


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## Javadoo (May 23, 2011)

NotAChampionFan said:


> Well you can believe what you want. It is silly to argue against success. It is your money and your time. Most of the brands you see recommended on here come from companies with no staff nutritionist, no staff Vet, no testing kennel and zero experience with dogs. In fact the guy that owns The Honest Kitchen with his wife was a car designer. The nutritionist there has no education but she is a pet sitter LOL
> 
> I don't use Pro Plan, but there are only three foods I would use: Annamaet, Red Paw & Dr. Tim's, whichever was easiest to get. I don't pretend to know more than the guys running those companies.
> 
> ...


Well hello Hershey....I see you found your way back on here.


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