# Bite From Raw Fed Dog



## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

I ended up in the ER with my husband lat night with a dog bite. Buck went after Dude's food because he has not quite gotten the grasp of the "you can't just go around taking everyone's food" concept. We are ALMOST there, but he still can't resist sometimes. 

Dude wasn't too fond of the new puppy idea to begin with because 1) the dog he grew up with was almost 10 years older than him 2) he has been enjoying his only dog, center of attention status for the last 7 months and 3) he spent all of December being harassed by our friends' mannerless, nightmarish, hellion of a malamute puppy. They didn't bother to control her and Dude has developed a new irritation for pups. 

He has been extremely tolerant of Buck so far, but this one was just too much for him. There have been a few minor scuffles here and there, with the biggest one being when Buck latched on to Dude's manly parts (Dude is intact). Other than those few scuffles, they have started getting along great. Paying together and enjoying each others' company. We would have let Dude put Buck in his place as I feel that another dog is the best teacher to a pup, but although Buck is growing like a weed, he still stands no chance against Dude. Nick stepped in to prevent anyone from getting hurt and got caught in the crossfire. Dude was immediately ashamed as if he knew what he had done. 

Anyhow, Dude left a short, but deep rip in Nick's hand that required 3 stitches. We made sure to tell the doc that we feed raw, who of course told us it was strange and barbaric (as if he doesn't cook the same chicken and eat it himself). It was cleaned and stitched and that was that.

My question is: What do y'all do for things like that? I have considered buying disposable gloves for meat prep when someone has an open wound. How do y'all deal with the risk of salmonella? These are things that are constantly on my mind. I have a hard time even letting their mouths and Buck's ears touch me. I LOVE the raw diet, but how do you do it? Y'all seem so nonchalant about these things.


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## Lisa_j (Apr 7, 2011)

Perhaps you should consider feeding in crates to prevent any other bites. I feed all of mine in their "safe" place so that they can relax and eat their share without the stress of another dog taking it. 
As far as salmonella or anything else, I do not even worry about it. I clean everything the same way I did when I fed kibble. No different and no illnesses here.


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

We feed everyone in crates or in the different yard runs - we have a covered play area, puppy play yard and the main yard. Extras are fed in their crates. No fights, no problems. As for the salmonella, I don't worry because you can get it from preparing your own meals. We clean our hands and counters well after feeding the dogs and cooking for ourselves but there really is no difference. PLus there are all sorts of bacteria in kibble also.


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## Mollygirl (May 14, 2011)

Pinky is very protective of her food even when she don't want it. She will sat there and guard it. She is getting better and she is realizing that if she don't eat it fast enough I will pick it up. But she and Ginger has gotten into some fights over it. They really sound like they are killing each other. Those 2 little dogs can really go at it. I always break up the fights, my dogs always wear their harnesses so I grab hold of them to pull them away. There was a few times I picked up Pinky and Ginger had a hold of her that she was lifted in the air too. That little Yorkie can really hold on. It's been a while since we have had a fight so maybe she is learning. As for the salmonella, I thought you could only catch it if you eat it (I could be wrong) and I wouldn't worry about getting it through a cut. I would worry more about the juices irritating it so I would keep it covered or protected so it don't get infected.

Here, when you go to the ER for a dog bite it is always reported to the police station and they have to come out and check out the dog. Did the doctor say anything about reporting it?


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## SilverBeat (Jan 16, 2011)

I would just wear gloves or something for a week or so until the would is well scabbed over/has had a head start in the healing process.
I'm not a disinfecting fiend. I leave Wallaby's mat and bed out in the sun the day after he eats on it [no cover and sunlight kills bacteria like no other] and toss his mat in the wash once a week. Everything else is soap and hot water.


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## Ania's Mommy (Feb 8, 2009)

Can salmonella be passed through an open wound? I never really thought about it... 

The way I figure it, I almost always have a paper cut, hangnail, or some other minor "wound" on my hand. I've butchered more than my fair share of raw meat. I've never contracted anything from it. 

Heck, I've even slipped the knife a few times WHILE cutting up meat and sliced open my hands with it. We're talking GUSHING blood. When this has happened, I've stuck a bandaid on it and continued with my work. And as soon as I think I've clotted, the bandaid comes off because I HATE wearing bandaids. 

I wouldn't worry about it. If you can even contract salmonella via open wound, I think that the chances are small. And if it is a possibility, don't put raw meat on your wounds.:becky:

ETA: I don't actually have gnarly man-hands, despite what it sounded like above. Just wanted to point that out...


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

Boy, I could really tell stories here but don't want to scare anyone thinking I have horrible dogs!


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## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

Golly, this is the first time its ever occurred to me to think about open wounds, raw food, salmonella and infection. 
I'd be willing to give you a bet that I am the clumsiest person in the world. I've always got something scrapped, cut, chopped, scratched, punctured, stung or broken. And, seriously, I've never even thought about the fact that that I could get an infection from handling Mollies food, or by getting a scratch from her teeth when I play with her. Me thinks you worry too much (in a nice way!). Relax....everything will be fine - if it weren't, I'd be well gone by now.


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## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

MollyGirl-No. They won't report it because it was our own dog and we were breaking up a food fight. They were just wanting to make sure he was up to date on rabies. There was another dog bite in there that was legitimately a bite. We are also at our Navy hospital so they tend to take your word on things. They were totally unconcerned about the circumstances of the bite.

SilverBeat- Great idea, but we live in Washington state. We don't get a whole lot of sun here. We had a gorgeous weekend last weekend but we are back to cloudy and overcast. But no rain lately! Yay!

Ania's Mommy-I believe you (about your man hands) 

MollyWoppy- I think I worry too much too. I just don't want to take unnecessary risks with Nick. Keep in mind that today marks my 14th day feeding raw. I'm still fairly new to all this! 

I'm not going to feed in crates only because I have a lack of room and I hate disassembling them. I am also of the belief that all dogs should be able to eat harmoniously together. This doesn't happen often and Buck is learning that he needs to leave Dude alone. Both dogs also FREAK out in crates. I don't worry about them eating together in the future as I have always managed to create a harmonious atmosphere for feeding time. 

I think you guys are right. I think the more I get into raw feeding, the less I will worry. I do feel much better about this whole thing. And of course, Nick is milking his "traumatic experience" for all it is worth. He has been using it to get out of EVERYTHING and he laughs every time I let him get away with it. Not for long though. Haha. Thanks a lot guys.


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## Pimzilla (May 1, 2011)

It is possible to get salmonella through an open wound. But I see the risk as minimal cause most people make sure to clean an open wound very quickly and it's not very hygienic (even if it's only for your dog) to cut pieces of meat with open wounds on your hands, so I believe most people cover their wounds up until they have healed a bit. Then you need to actually time the wound with having salmonella infected meat cutting aswell, which I don't believe is that common :smile:


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## CavePaws (Jan 25, 2011)

I've been bit by a raw fed dog twice. The crushing that comes with a bite like that is what hurts the most and is likely to cause more damage than the cuts. My cuts healed up fast with absolutely no infection. I didn't do anything special, just washed it after I did anything that seemed really "germy". Just keep it washed. I still fed the dogs their food as usual and even packaged a months worth of their food bare handed with the cuts - scabbed by then. I'm not really all that freaked out about germs so I guess infection wasn't something I worried about. The second time I was bit it was about an hour and a half after my dog had eaten, I honestly didn't even think about the possibilities of salmonella or infection. 

You should feed your dogs in crates, behind gates, or in two separate rooms. I will not risk my safety nor the safety of my other dogs to let them eat together. There isn't a point to it. Just separate them. There wasn't "serious damage" done now, but consider if your adult dog's bite had landed on the puppy instead of your husbands hand. It could have been bad and it would have taken more time to separate them, meaning it's very possible the wounds to the pup would have been much worse. You can't always predict how it will end, and some day it could be really tragic if you keep taking the risk. I'm not saying this to rag on you or your dog or anything, I'm saying this because I deal with the same thing every day and have to realize the dangers of having a possessive dog who MUST be separated from the others around things she is possessive of.

edit: I'm sorry but I just think it is really foolish to continue trying to make meal time harmonious between your puppy and your food aggressive dog. If you really want to do it I think you should find an experienced trainer who deals with food aggression on a regular basis. It's not something to mess around with. People can become seriously injured and your puppy could be maimed or killed. You may think, "No, he'd never do that" but you can't read his mind and you can't say "never" with an animal who can't tell you he'd never do this and that. This is just coming from my experiences I've had dealing with aggressive dogs.


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

I think the fact that you got care for the wound right away, that is enough. I have cut my hands while cutting up raw before but I just washed the area good and have never had a problem. I like the idea of feeding in crates, or if you can't do that then maybe feed one inside and one outside. Thats what we do. Lucky our hound gets rather protective of hers, so I feed her in the house and the other three outside on the back deck. I keeps the peace really well!


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## doggoblin (Jun 6, 2011)

Our dogs are quite happy to eat together normally even from the same plate. I have noticed however that one of our dogs (Nelson) prefers to eat away when eating something "raw" (such as the tripe we gave yesterday). He will take it and either walk into another room or move halfway across the garden to protect his food. I count this as part of the simple pack dynamics and will not force him to eat nearby. Having a crate available may mean he wouldn't need to move so far away to feel "safe". 

One site I have come across before while looking at dog aggression (in case we have it when introducing a third dog) is Leerburg | How to Break up a Dog Fight without getting hurt Not sure how practical it is but seems to make sense.


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## SerenityFL (Sep 28, 2010)

CavePaws said:


> You should feed your dogs in crates, behind gates, or in two separate rooms. I will not risk my safety nor the safety of my other dogs to let them eat together. There isn't a point to it. Just separate them. There wasn't "serious damage" done now, but consider if your adult dog's bite had landed on the puppy instead of your husbands hand. It could have been bad and it would have taken more time to separate them, meaning it's very possible the wounds to the pup would have been much worse. You can't always predict how it will end, and some day it could be really tragic if you keep taking the risk. I'm not saying this to rag on you or your dog or anything, I'm saying this because I deal with the same thing every day and have to realize the dangers of having a possessive dog who MUST be separated from the others around things she is possessive of.
> 
> edit: I'm sorry but I just think it is really foolish to continue trying to make meal time harmonious between your puppy and your food aggressive dog. If you really want to do it I think you should find an experienced trainer who deals with food aggression on a regular basis. It's not something to mess around with. People can become seriously injured and your puppy could be maimed or killed. You may think, "No, he'd never do that" but you can't read his mind and you can't say "never" with an animal who can't tell you he'd never do this and that. This is just coming from my experiences I've had dealing with aggressive dogs.


I agree 100% with this. Every single word is what I would have said if she hadn't beat me to it. I feed my dogs in their crates. No exceptions. To me it's not worth the fight. As she said, it may have been minor this time but the very fact that you had to go to the ER at all should tell you that those dogs need to be separated when they eat. What we want and what will happen is not always the same thing. 

If you insist on it, as she said, (again, perfectly), do not try to do this on your own. Work with an experienced trainer who KNOWS how to handle dominant or aggressive dogs. Not some happy feel good trainer from Petco.


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## SerenityFL (Sep 28, 2010)

doggoblin said:


> One site I have come across before while looking at dog aggression (in case we have it when introducing a third dog) is Leerburg | How to Break up a Dog Fight without getting hurt Not sure how practical it is but seems to make sense.


You're going to find that some people here hate Leerburg. Regardless, how he tells to break up a dog fight is, to me anyway, the best way to do it. Too often I see people going to grab their dogs by the collar....sorry, no, too close to the mouth.


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## Lisa_j (Apr 7, 2011)

SerenityFL said:


> I agree 100% with this. Every single word is what I would have said if she hadn't beat me to it. I feed my dogs in their crates. No exceptions. To me it's not worth the fight. As she said, it may have been minor this time but the very fact that you had to go to the ER at all should tell you that those dogs need to be separated when they eat. What we want and what will happen is not always the same thing.
> 
> If you insist on it, as she said, (again, perfectly), do not try to do this on your own. Work with an experienced trainer who KNOWS how to handle dominant or aggressive dogs. Not some happy feel good trainer from Petco.


I agree 110%. It is just not worth the risk and thank goodness it wasn't your pups neck that was bitten! If the wound required stitches, your dog met business! He was not fooling around with warnings.


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## KittyKat (Feb 11, 2011)

Clean the wound, throw some aloe vera on it and a bandaid, and you are good to go.


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## sassymaxmom (Dec 7, 2008)

Completely agree, separate the dogs when they eat. I don't have room for crates to be up either but I put dogs at either end of the room with me between them or dogs inside and outside with me watching through the glass door or set up an exercise pen for one or the other dog at meal time.


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## Celt (Dec 27, 2010)

I had to take my child to the urgent care clinic when she sliced her hand (she dropped it, and instead of letting it fall, she tried to catch it) with the knife I use to cut up the dog's chicken (salmonella central). Now I don't actually wash this knife everyday (more like once a week).Generally, I just rinse it off in hot water or stick it in the sink when the washer's going, not that that matters cause I had just finished cutting up dinner. The doc at the clinic, after we told him about the knife, said that he'd worry more if the knife had been rusty, than used for cutting up meat.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

don't let ania's mommy kid you.....her hands are huge....you should see her swinging gigunda margaritas around....j/k..

seriously, though...question for you, ania's mommy....do you leave your blood in ania's food? so she can have a taste of humanity?

yes, you can get salmonella through an open would.....but not likely if you wash your hands with soap....soap kills salmonella and you're not sure, pour bleach on the wound. that will kill AIDS. of course, it will hurt like hell, but you'll be sure...

the thing with food aggression is probably best left to a professional, but here is what i did when we got bubba the food vacuum....malia wasn't pleased and there was a fight.....fortunately, it broke up easily without hands getting in the way, but then on...

i leashed both of them....and sat between them as they ate. they learned how to eat next to each other without aggression, because it is simply unacceptable for them to fight over food...


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## 3Musketeers (Nov 4, 2010)

There's more salmonella in your kitchen sink than there probably is in a piece of Chicken.

I'm full of cuts and scratches and have never had an issue with Salmonella, not to say it's impossible, but I think it's overrated. Someone would probably have to be pretty immunocomprimised to catch salmonella from something like handling raw chicken for a few minutes.


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## Ania's Mommy (Feb 8, 2009)

magicre said:


> seriously, though...question for you, ania's mommy....do you leave your blood in ania's food? so she can have a taste of humanity?


Yes I do. And now that she's gotten a taste for human blood, she's been after my jugular. :wink:

Maybe I should have clarified. It's not as though I practically slice a finger off, rub it all around in the meat, then hose my blood all over Ania's dinner while thumbing my nose at infectious disease. That's not what I meant at all.

Of COURSE I stop what I'm doing to clean myself up, and I cover the wound. Most of the time, the wound is on a non-crucial part of my hand that I don't actively use while portioning out meat. So it's not really even touching the meat in any way. 

When I portion out meat, I am usually portioning out a bulk order. This tends to take a bit of time, so when I said that I wait for the wound to clot, rip the bandaid off, then get back to work, you have to understand that this is usually, like an hour or two or three later. I really do hate wearing bandaids. To me, they are pretty freaking gross in their own right. So I only wear them when necessary. 

If I do have a wound on my hand (particularly a newer one), I am very conscious of it and take care to minimize contact.



> don't let ania's mommy kid you.....her hands are huge....you should see her swinging gigunda margaritas around....j/k..


Dammit Re, those are mojitos, not margaritas!


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## CavePaws (Jan 25, 2011)

Ania's Mommy said:


> When I portion out meat, I am usually portioning out a bulk order. This tends to take a bit of time, so when I said that I wait for the wound to clot, rip the bandaid off, then get back to work, you have to understand that this is usually, like an hour or two or three later. I really do hate wearing bandaids. To me, they are pretty freaking gross in their own right. So I only wear them when necessary.


Oh god, I so agree about the bandaids. They are so nasty to me. I'd much rather go without when packaging than with.


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

Dammit Re, those are mojitos, not margaritas! 







[/QUOTE]
You know, I think your right Richelle! You need to lay off the Booze especially if you can't tell the difference between a Emu and a Llama! Lol


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## monkeys23 (Dec 8, 2010)

I always crate or have them on seperate tie-outs. They are animals, not people... and carnivores fight over who gets the choice pieces. Animal life is pretty harsh. Keep your dogs safe and feed them seperately.

I always forget I have paper cuts or whatever on my hands. I've also cut myself hacking up food before. So far no salmonella. Just keep the wound clean and you should have zero problems.


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## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

I don't think that anyone here can exactly understand what happened since you were not there. The stitches were not caused by Dude physically biting. They were caused by getting his hand caught on a canine tooth. In all of the times Dude has "gone after" Buck, it has not ever resulted in a bite. Dude does not have food aggression. I do not need an expert trainer as this is the first time in 7 1/2 years this dog has caused anything like this and it wasn't even his fault. 

I have dealt with many legitimately aggressive dogs and know how to handle them. Crates will not be used. This is a matter of the pup learning to respect the older dog. Truthfully, we would not even have gone to the ER if it wasn't for the salmonella worry. The doc even left the choice up to us. We just figured, we are here, we may as well get it done. Our biggest concern was the salmonella and it turns out that I am worrying too much. 

My question was not about how to feed my dogs as I am very capable of handling it myself. At 5 years old, I was in charge of feeding my grandfather's dogs: a 1 year old rottweiler and a 4 year old doberman. They were not "well trained" dogs, but I was able to handle them better than anyone in our family. I promise that I have been working with dogs for many years and I do know what I am doing. My issue here was not the dogs' behaviour but the issue of the raw chicken.

I would appreciate it if we could stick to the actual issue I asked about.


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## CavePaws (Jan 25, 2011)

I think I understand what happened enough to suggest that you don't mess around with this. How many truly food aggressive dogs have you personally rehabilitated and how could you say that you are as qualified as a trainer who see's it on a daily basis. Dogs can have EXCEPTIONAL bite inhibition and control of their mouth, your dog could have stopped if he wanted and your husband would not have ended up with stitches from a mere graze of the tooth. The fact that the bite broke the skin is enough for me to say it is dangerous if it had landed on the pup. The end. If you say it's not dangerous you're in denial. I've swallowed my pride as a dog trainer and realized that even if I could "rehabilitate" my food aggressive dog I wouldn't want to subject the others to this problem. If you say your dog isn't food aggressive then you're back peddling. You already stated he has gotten into scuffles with the pup. Thus you recognized the problem. I am giving you a suggestion to keep your puppy safe. I know what it is like to be bit and I know what it is like to take my dog to the emergency vet for stitches late at night and to have his throat checked out because he was grabbed so hard he sounded like he was having trouble breathing. What this could turn into can be horrible. Sorry if I'm bursting your bubble here, but I think it's important to be really honest with things this severe. I wouldn't blow it off if I were you.

Numerous people answered your question already. I'm sure you have your answer.

edit: Dogs who control themselves will not resort to biting or starting a fight with a puppy that ends in blood shed. The puppy can be easily corrected without such an intense response. He was protecting his food and they got in a fight over it. End of story. What did he do 7 1/2 years ago that was similar to this?


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## Lisa_j (Apr 7, 2011)

monkeys23 said:


> I always crate or have them on seperate tie-outs. They are animals, not people... and carnivores fight over who gets the choice pieces. Animal life is pretty harsh. Keep your dogs safe and feed them seperately.
> I agree, sometimes we forget that our dogs are just that, DOGS!
> I think overall, most must seperate their dogs while feeding. We have 10. If I did not have crates/kennels my house would not run smooth!!!
> I always forget I have paper cuts or whatever on my hands. I've also cut myself hacking up food before. So far no salmonella. Just keep the wound clean and you should have zero problems.


 I agree as well!


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## Lisa_j (Apr 7, 2011)

CavePaws said:


> I think I understand what happened enough to suggest that you don't mess around with this. How many truly food aggressive dogs have you personally rehabilitated and how could you say that you are as qualified as a trainer who see's it on a daily basis. Dogs can have EXCEPTIONAL bite inhibition and control of their mouth, your dog could have stopped if he wanted and your husband would not have ended up with stitches from a mere graze of the tooth. The fact that the bite broke the skin is enough for me to say it is dangerous if it had landed on the pup. The end. If you say it's not dangerous you're in denial. I've swallowed my pride as a dog trainer and realized that even if I could "rehabilitate" my food aggressive dog I wouldn't want to subject the others to this problem. If you say your dog isn't food aggressive then you're back peddling. You already stated he has gotten into scuffles with the pup. Thus you recognized the problem. I am giving you a suggestion to keep your puppy safe. I know what it is like to be bit and I know what it is like to take my dog to the emergency vet for stitches late at night and to have his throat checked out because he was grabbed so hard he sounded like he was having trouble breathing. What this could turn into can be horrible. Sorry if I'm bursting your bubble here, but I think it's important to be really honest with things this severe. I wouldn't blow it off if I were you.
> 
> Numerous people answered your question already. I'm sure you have your answer.
> 
> edit: Dogs who control themselves will not resort to biting or starting a fight with a puppy that ends in blood shed. The puppy can be easily corrected without such an intense response. He was protecting his food and they got in a fight over it. End of story. What did he do 7 1/2 years ago that was similar to this?


I again agree. A dog may give a warining and it may sound very bad without harm. A dog may also resort to a bite. THey CAN control themselves. You keep saying that a canine just caught and ripped the skin, that IS NOT the way this works. The dog either means business or doesn't ~~~~simple as that! As I said before, had this been the poor pups neck, who by the way seems to be getting the BLAME for everything including the OTHERS DOGS ACTIONS, he may have been dead! You don't have to crate a dog but feeding in different locations may be benificial. This mind set of feeding together is kinda crazy if you ask me, especially after the bite that occured!


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## SerenityFL (Sep 28, 2010)

Dude and Bucks Mamma said:


> I ended up in the ER with my husband lat night *with a dog bite*. Buck went after Dude's food because he has not quite gotten the grasp of the "you can't just go around taking everyone's food" concept. We are ALMOST there, but he still can't resist sometimes.
> 
> Dude wasn't too fond of the new puppy idea to begin with because 1) the dog he grew up with was almost 10 years older than him 2) he has been enjoying his only dog, center of attention status for the last 7 months and 3) he spent all of December being harassed by our friends' mannerless, nightmarish, hellion of a malamute puppy. They didn't bother to control her and Dude has developed a new irritation for pups.
> 
> ...


Those three comments are why I wrote what I wrote. Now you're saying no one was in danger, it was just an accidental graze of a tooth and that things are fine. I have to agree with CavePaws again. The people here aren't saying these things to you because they think you don't know anything, they are saying these things to you because no one wants to see you, your husband or your dogs get hurt, mauled, bitten, killed. It seems you think we are attacking you. We're not. From what I see here on this forum, people care about other people and other peoples dogs. That's all.

I wish you the best of luck.


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

I gotta be in agreement with Cavepaws and the like here. Resource guarding is something that I allow in my house to a degree. I allow growling, I even allow snapping to a degree. But a dog that is simply communicating is not going to draw blood, it doesn't happen. A dog that is out for blood, draws blood. 
You can not blame the puppy for "harassing" when clearly your adult dog isn't a good communicator to begin with. If he IS doing warning growls, and warning snaps, and your puppy isn't listening, for his well being you NEED to redirect puppy's attention, or one day that won't be your hand, it will be puppy's throat. I would start some serious NILF training, and for Hell's sake, separate them while feeding.


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## Chocx2 (Nov 16, 2009)

I have four dogs, they all eat in my kitchen, and I feed them in the same spot. And I always stay to make sure there are no arguments. So far never had a problem and one of them is an Aussie not intact, the rest are. However I was holding a piece of chicken teaching my pup, 6month at the time and she crunched down on my index finger instead of the bone. Ooooppppsss, that was smart, small wound, closed quick, but several weeks later festered up, ended up on antibiotics for 20 days two rounds. Didn't tell that I feed raw, they didn't understand how my finger got bacteria in it and cause my finger to get three times the size. But said I had a good immune system, kept the infection in my finger. I know next time to clean, scrub the wound out well not just wash your hands lol. Don't know if it was salmonella or what. But do wash a wound out well.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

Dude and Bucks Mamma said:


> I don't think that anyone here can exactly understand what happened since you were not there. The stitches were not caused by Dude physically biting. They were caused by getting his hand caught on a canine tooth. In all of the times Dude has "gone after" Buck, it has not ever resulted in a bite. Dude does not have food aggression. I do not need an expert trainer as this is the first time in 7 1/2 years this dog has caused anything like this and it wasn't even his fault.
> 
> I have dealt with many legitimately aggressive dogs and know how to handle them. Crates will not be used. This is a matter of the pup learning to respect the older dog. Truthfully, we would not even have gone to the ER if it wasn't for the salmonella worry. The doc even left the choice up to us. We just figured, we are here, we may as well get it done. Our biggest concern was the salmonella and it turns out that I am worrying too much.
> 
> ...


in the first line of your post, i saw stated that you and your husband ended up in the ER with a dog bite.

immediately what comes to mind is a dog biting, not an accidental oops i got my hand in the way of a canine.

so i am guilty of presumption that a dog bite is a dog bite.

i did tell you how 'I' feed MY dogs...and did not suggest that you do the same....

i also do see the part about the salmonella and completely missed it, so my apologies for not answering the question asked.

but, please don't feel you were attacked......maybe it sounded that way to you....and it was frustrating because everyone was saying how they fed THEIR dogs....but people also answered your question about salmonella....

and, yes, in the beginning, this home was NOT nonchalant about salmonella. i am immuno compromised and i sanitised the kitchen, their mouths, their feet and steamed the carpets daily.

in the year plus they've been on raw, i've become nonchalant, especially after studying salmonella in kibble....and when i think that i fed kibble longer than i fed raw.....and never got sick, that took me down a notch....

the other thing was...i cook almost every day. i break down chickens, get roasts ready to cook, slice and dice all kinds of raw meats and fish..and i've never gotten sick....and i stuff all my turkeys and never got sick...

studying and thinking about all that and doing it every day, twice a day has made me nonchalant, so i would say it's a time thing and a research thing.


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## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

This is the first food involved issue. The "bite" was caused by my husband reacting quickly and his hand ended up in the same place as Dude's mouth. Dude has in no way bitten Buck. He is not dog aggressive or food aggressive. Dude does not have food aggression. The other times Dude has gotten into "scuffles" (meaning Dude putting Buck back in his place without hurting him) are because Buck incessantly bites at Dude on occasion. Rest assured, CavePaws, that I have dealt with many food aggressive dogs before and have been successful. This was not a case of food aggression but of Dude simply having reached his tolerance limit. Buck is a VERY determined pup who doesn't stop when he has been disciplined multiple times. I do not leave them together unattended yet (Buck still needs his manners tuned a bit more) and will remove him from the situation when necessary. This was one of those times where, as closely as you are watching them, they still manage to get where they shouldn't be. He has now learned to respect Dude and after a little over a week, I can leave both of them in the backyard with their food and they don't bother each other (all meals are still supervised, although it is more due to my making sure that my PMR newbies are ok). When one finishes his meal (yes, even the pup) will simply walk off a ways and wait until the other has finished before sniffing around the yard together. They are at the point now where they can share a chicken quarter in peace. And CavePaws, he was BORN 7 1/2 years ago. He didn't do anything bad 2 1/2 years ago. 

And yes, you can be given stitches for a "bite" caused by a "mere graze of a tooth". I have had it happen while on my morning run with a very... bouncy dog. He would literally bounce when he ran. My hand came up, his panting mouth was on its way down. He was overjoyed to be out again after a week of snow and had a ton of energy. Was it his fault? No. Was I angry with him? No. It happened, but it wasn't his fault.

Yes, I do feel as though I am being attacked. I did not ask anyone's opinion on the behavior of the dogs, but the risk of salmonella. Again, as no one was there, no one can assume they know that anyone was in danger. When you have multiple dogs, there is ALWAYS a risk of one or all of the dogs getting hurt. During play, someone can accidentally get hurt. During a walk someone can accidentally get hurt. When something happens, neither of us are going to wait and see if someone is going to be in danger before we act. This doesn't just refer to our dogs. When I assessed the situation afterwards, I could see that, although we interfered, no one was in danger. I just don't feel that trying to tell me how to raise my dogs when, a week later, I have completely eliminated the problem, was necessary. 

Magicre, I do believe that the phrase "dog bite" was the misleading part here. Thank you for pointing that out. I suppose that the reason I used "bite" was because to me, "bite" does not mean the dog necessarily crunched down purposely, but can also include accidental things. I do realize that the way I describe something is not the way everyone else would describe it, so that was my mistake. It was frustrating when everyone was telling me how they feed their dogs. To be perfectly honest, I am not interested in how everyone else feeds their dogs. We have a friend who just dumps the kibble on the ground because she is too cheap to buy a proper bowl (she admitted this). Her dog scrambles around trying to get all the kibble of the concrete. She tried telling me that I should feed this way (when I still fed kibble). Was I going to just because she thought her way was better? Nope. 

PuppyPaws, this was not an "attack". I allow the same things in our house too to a lesser extent. I feel that a dog should not have to let another dog simply take his food. I don't allow fighting, but I allow my dogs to make sure their food stays in their own possession. In my opinion, this was a case of the pup not respecting another dog while he was eating. Dude gives warning signs, but Buck either doesn't notice them or doesn't heed them. He is a very good communicator and has not had issues in the past with other dogs. I firmly believe that his bad attitude towards Buck was caused by our friends' pup being allowed to harass him. They chose to "let him bite her if she bugged him" which I did my best to prevent. He never once attempted to make contact with her body in any way, but he would growl and warn her with an occasional snap that he clearly drew short. When I do hear or see Dude's warning signs, Buck is removed from the situation and both dogs are separated. 

In all honesty, I would place the blame on my husband and myself. He had just gotten home from work and we were sitting on the porch steps talking about all the things that happened at work and I should have been paying closer attention. The dogs were only a couple of feet from us, but I should have been paying better attention. As to my husband's blame, Buck is his first pup in MANY years. Living in the barracks, he couldn't have pets and he was a kid the last time he had a pup. He, my military husband, bustles around like a mother hen. Buck SNEEZES and Nick is running over to make sure he is ok. He jumped SO quickly and reached out to grab Buck so fast that, in my honest opinion, is why he hit tooth. He was using himself to block Buck. 

I guess my frustration here comes from people making it sound like I have NO clue what I am doing and don't care about my dogs enough. I told about the ER trip because I knew people would ask what happened and decided to just say what happened in the original post to save myself the trouble of having to explain later. I promise, I do care about my dogs and some people think we are crazy because our dogs are pretty much our entire world. We love them and would do just about anything for them. We are not going to purposely put them in harm's way (if you don't count Dude's 7 1/2 years of kibble!). The issue has been dealt with and we do not even have warning growls from Dude anymore. 

Thank you to those of you who addressed my actual question. Magicre, I had a hard time with chicken to begin with. Now that I am dealing with it multiple times a day, I think I am mentally seeing chicken slime everywhere. I never really thought of the kibble that way. Having little brothers in the house growing up, we caught them eating dog biscuits and dog food occasionally when they were little and they never got sick. When you put it that way, the chicken doesn't seem so... germy. 

Sorry, all, for the rant. I am very opinionated and hate people talking to me like I am clueless. Parent issues that I won't go into are the cause of that. Anyhow, I say again, that the issue has been dealt with and my boys couldn't enjoy each other's company more, now that Buck kas gained some manners. He is a stubborn little cuss and will take a great deal of training, but we do have complete harmony in our house now, mealtimes included.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

no worries. this is a forum where misunderstanding and the lack of commonality with language is fragile and tentative.

i can see why you were frustrated and i have been where you are, so as far as i'm concerned, life is good.


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

I hope you don't run into that again. With 4 collies here I have been on the wrong end of a snapping jaw. They are quick as a snake and even when playing if I get in the middle I am not fast enough to avoid gettinf nicked. My guys would never bite a person but as I said they are quick and if I get myself in the middle it is my fault. MY guys are not super fond of sharing food though - I feed outside if 2 more are in the same area and they do well if they have their own space. If I have to feed inside I just feed in crates as we don't have a big house and I don't think they can get their own space in the kitchen. Everyone in our house is intact and that may be part of the issue also. That said my sweet heart of a boy guards absolutely nothing except dinner and his ducky. The girls always over power my poor boy. I hope your little one start respecting your big boys space.


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## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

Magicre- Thanks. I was getting pretty frustrated until your post.

Liz- "Quick as a snake" is the perfect way to describe a collie. I have been caught by a tooth during play as well. He doesn't mean to, but it happens. Both of my boys are intact and Dude is the same way as your boy. His food and his kong ball are the only thing he won't let Buck have. With his kong ball, Dude will just pick it up and walk away. He doesn't get upset with the pup. He only guards his food from Buck. We (people) can reach in at any point and grab it and he has no issue with it. Dude has an old sock of my husband's that they play fetch and tug of war with. Buck will take it right out of Dude's mouth and Dude doesn't care. The issues were being caused BY THE PUP, not Dude. We only feed outside as we have a covered patio and just the 2 boys. Thanks. And yes, he has learned his place and gives Dude a LOT more respect than he did when he first got here.


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

Glad to hear the pup is getting it. That's one of the reasons I keep my pups til 12 weeks. They learn quickly how to behave with adults and know instantly when they have gone too far and go belly up (LOL) Your little guy will get it. It is always the puppy - they can really drive adult dogs crazy, but then they are so fun to play with. Feeding outside is easier in my opinion than indoors, I am glad they are working things out.


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## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

Yea. I don't know much about it, but keeping pups until 12 weeks is something I hadn't really heard much until the past year or so. Buck was bred by a man who breeds them for hunting (and therefore produces dogs that are perfect for showing! Haha) and while he loves his dogs (my pup's sire is, as he puts it, "the best friend he has ever had") he is still part of the hunters who don't do all of the "extra" stuff. He ships (when necessary) the pups out at 8 weeks and they are off his hands at 8 weeks. Don't get me wrong. He takes EXCELLENT care of these pups. They were all thoroughly vaccinated and our vet (we took him in for more shots today) was VERY impressed by the quality of our pup.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

this may be off topic, but i think liz holding on to the pups should be standard....i really do.

let the breeder have those four weeks between 8 and 12......LOL


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## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

Personally, I am very glad that I got Buck at 8 weeks. I would not argue if his breeder had wanted to keep him a few more, but now I can rest assured that he has been socialized well because I was there. I know what I am doing when it comes to socializing dogs so to take a pup at 8 weeks doesn't worry me, but there are a lot of people who don't. Maybe it would be better if the standard became 12 weeks instead. All it takes is for more breeders to implement that to make it happen.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

Dude and Bucks Mamma said:


> Personally, I am very glad that I got Buck at 8 weeks. I would not argue if his breeder had wanted to keep him a few more, but now I can rest assured that he has been socialized well because I was there. I know what I am doing when it comes to socializing dogs so to take a pup at 8 weeks doesn't worry me, but there are a lot of people who don't. Maybe it would be better if the standard became 12 weeks instead. All it takes is for more breeders to implement that to make it happen.


ten years ago, i would have agreed with you  and i would have agreed with liz too......see how on the fence i am? 

i'm older now and not so healthy anymore, so those four weeks staying with the breeder is a g'd send for me....

i know how to do it.....it would be tougher these days....if that makes sense...


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## Grandiose (Apr 2, 2011)

Dude and Bucks Mamma said:


> Personally, I am very glad that I got Buck at 8 weeks. I would not argue if his breeder had wanted to keep him a few more, but now I can rest assured that he has been socialized well because I was there. I know what I am doing when it comes to socializing dogs so to take a pup at 8 weeks doesn't worry me, but there are a lot of people who don't. Maybe it would be better if the standard became 12 weeks instead. All it takes is for more breeders to implement that to make it happen.


I'm assuming that you have never bred a litter of large breed puppies. Let me tell you, by 8 weeks, you are ready to rip your own ears off, and claw your eyeballs out. By 12 weeks, you are ready to spay and neuter every dog and person in the house! And then they leave, and you remember all the good moments, and love the pictures and updates the puppy people send you, and all is right in the world and you begin looking forward to the next moment of insanity...I mean litter.

In all seriousness, its honestly more realistic for puppies to start leaving to experienced homes at 8 weeks. That gives the puppies time to bond to family, get over any travel and re-homing stress and such, prior to the next fear period kicking in. 
Not to mention, it is a buttload easier for one person (or a family) to socialize a single puppy than it is for a breeder to adequately expose and socialize 5 to 10 puppies. To properly socialize a puppy in the litter, you have to first remove them from their littermates (so as not to find a false sense of security in littermates), expose them (which often includes car rides), and then repeat the process multiplied by the number of puppies in the litter. Add that to cleaning up after them, feeding them, loving them, doing their laundry, keeping after their health, and everything else you have to do on a daily basis....and an extra 4 weeks can quickly become a nightmare!

Now, dont get me wrong! I keep my litters till 12 weeks. But our "pet" puppies going to experienced dog homes start leaving at 8 weeks, and we request of all those homes that the puppy go through at least puppy kindergarten. (Actually, we request that every puppy does...but I think its especially important for those that leave earlier) Helps lower the numbers so the rest can get more quality exposure to the world.
Its a lot easier for a family to socialize one puppy than it is for a breeder to socialize 5 to 10 puppies, which is why we start letting them to go experienced homes at 8 weeks.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

in all seriousness, it depends on the breeder....

but, developmentally, whilst the breeder might be drinking more ....i think it's better that the puppy stays up to 12 weeks.....i'm off the fence now, after having thought about it....

those four weeks are so important....i'd prefer that someone with more experience than i keep them until they are a little more mature....


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## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

Grandiose, I have never thought of it that way. If I were a breeder, I wouldn't hesitate to let an 8 week old pup go if I was confident that the pup was going to a person (or family) who could successfully socialize the pup, but not all people (families) are capable. I suppose I would also be willing to let pups go on an individual basis. I don't think there is a wrong way to do it. There are advantages and disadvantages to both sides, just like any other debatable issue.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

Dude and Bucks Mamma said:


> Grandiose, I have never thought of it that way. If I were a breeder, I wouldn't hesitate to let an 8 week old pup go if I was confident that the pup was going to a person (or family) who could successfully socialize the pup, but not all people (families) are capable. I suppose I would also be willing to let pups go on an individual basis. I don't think there is a wrong way to do it. There are advantages and disadvantages to both sides, just like any other debatable issue.



and i am a perfect example that i don't want my puppy until 12 weeks....i don't have a whole lot of patience....nor tolerance...and a puppy in my hands at 8 weeks....would be a disservice to the puppy....so i'm one of the 'those' people.

i just re read that. okay i'm being a bit dramatic, for i have rescued pups at five weeks....and my dogs do perfectly well.....but all of my dogs have been rescues...and have issues...even at the tender age of five weeks...

it's not that i can't do it. if ever i get another dog, i don't want those four weeks....for once, i want a puppy who just smoothly transitions.....to me, to my home, to his food.....to any other dog i have....


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## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

And I see your point. If I were a breeder who did let my pups go on an individual basis, I would be willing to keep your pup until 12 weeks. We have one car and I am in between semesters so I have nothing to do all day BUT stay home with Buck. We have plenty of social dogs and people out and about in our neighborhood all the time. All I have to do is walk the waterfront and he will be able to interact with at least 15 dogs and probably close to 40 people. That is just one walk on a nice day. I don't think we would have gotten a puppy at all if I wasn't home so much. We would have waited. Because of my situation and the amount of patience I seem to have with animals (I have almost none with people) getting a puppy at 8 weeks doesn't bother me. As the beginning of this thread shows, we did have our speed bumps, but by 12 weeks old, we have everyone living in the same apartment peacefully and have not had a single scuffle in a long time now.


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

I agree with what you are saying and have let pups go to experienced homes before 12 weeks. Many pet owners though are pretty clueless as to socializtion and basic training. If I see that those things are done then the chances of this puppy coming back to me are slim to none. The family is happy and I am confident in the placement. If they have experience and time and are willing to do the work I don't have a problem letting pups go a bit early. And yes, I have a large breed and often 8 -10 puppies. I understand the work and hwo getting them out would seem a blessing but makeing sure they are happy and their new owners are happy makes it worth the extra few weeks to me.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

and i don't have issue with taking a pup at 8 weeks...but to pass up on the socialisation that pup would get with you guys and your 101 dogs.....whyever wouldn't i want my puppy to have that experience when i will never be in the position to offer a puppy that kind of kindergarten ....although i'd be over to visit and play with all of them, cook everyone dinner except the dog...oh, i can see it now...


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## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

I think, in Buck's case, it was a complete advantage to get him at 8 weeks. He was bred by one of the top bluetick breeders and the dogs are always successful in either the hunt or the ring. The #1 bluetick in the Seattle area was bred by him. However, while he ADORES his dogs, they are hunting dogs and are treated as such. They are not house pets and they are trained to be completely consumed by the hunt. They live to hunt. I, personally, can't imagine a better place to live for a hunting dog, but Buck is a house pet and I got to begin adjusting him to the indoor life at 8 weeks old. I think he would have been much harder to handle if he had those extra 4 weeks in the typical coonhound life. Coonhound pups begin their training around 8 weeks, sometimes sooner.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

Dude and Bucks Mamma said:


> I think, in Buck's case, it was a complete advantage to get him at 8 weeks. He was bred by one of the top bluetick breeders and the dogs are always successful in either the hunt or the ring. The #1 bluetick in the Seattle area was bred by him. However, while he ADORES his dogs, they are hunting dogs and are treated as such. They are not house pets and they are trained to be completely consumed by the hunt. They live to hunt. I, personally, can't imagine a better place to live for a hunting dog, but Buck is a house pet and I got to begin adjusting him to the indoor life at 8 weeks old. I think he would have been much harder to handle if he had those extra 4 weeks in the typical coonhound life. Coonhound pups begin their training around 8 weeks, sometimes sooner.


i certainly understand why you would want him at 8 weeks...i'd also want a pup given those conditions...not that they are bad conditions....but even hunting dogs lived in side the castle....


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

I agree totally. The breeder wasn't setting the pup up for his future lifestyle. That makes a difference. All my puppy people leave me a schedule, activity plans and important obstacles for my pups to learn. Stairs are a big one for us as I have a ranch home with only 2 stpes up or down the porch. Many owners have stairs pups will contend with and I make sure they are ready. Schedules are changed to match the new owenr's, food is introduced, and any special need are met as much as I can within the age limitations of the pup. I brought home a pup a barely 8 weeks because the breeder didn't believe in house dogs and for my standards socialization was minimal. I have housepets who show and work in that order. I am glad you are doing well with your pup. He is a cutie.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

Liz said:


> I agree totally. The breeder wasn't setting the pup up for his future lifestyle. That makes a difference. All my puppy people leave me a schedule, activity plans and important obstacles for my pups to learn. Stairs are a big one for us as I have a ranch home with only 2 stpes up or down the porch. Many owners have stairs pups will contend with and I make sure they are ready. Schedules are changed to match the new owenr's, food is introduced, and any special need are met as much as I can within the age limitations of the pup. I brought home a pup a barely 8 weeks because the breeder didn't believe in house dogs and for my standards socialization was minimal. I have housepets who show and work in that order. I am glad you are doing well with your pup. He is a cutie.


i agree with both of you....can anyone sing kumbaya...

that changes the whole flavour of the story.

i never did understand the whole outside thing....unless the dog wanted to be....

but just because they are hunting dogs, doesn't mean they will be hunting dogs in their new home..and doesn't mean a hunting dog can't live in the house and sleep in bed with the owners..and be on the couch and do all the things we humanise our dogs to do LOL


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## molbert73 (Jan 16, 2011)

Liz said:


> I agree totally. The breeder wasn't setting the pup up for his future lifestyle. That makes a difference. All my puppy people leave me a schedule, activity plans and important obstacles for my pups to learn. Stairs are a big one for us as I have a ranch home with only 2 stpes up or down the porch. Many owners have stairs pups will contend with and I make sure they are ready. Schedules are changed to match the new owenr's, food is introduced, and any special need are met as much as I can within the age limitations of the pup. I brought home a pup a barely 8 weeks because the breeder didn't believe in house dogs and for my standards socialization was minimal. I have housepets who show and work in that order. I am glad you are doing well with your pup. He is a cutie.


Liz if i were in the market for a collie i would certainly want one from you!


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## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

Liz- I am one of the rare few who buy a pup from him for a reason other than hunting. He lives in an area where **** hunting is huge and he is one of the most renowned breeders among hunters. He ships pups all over the country as well and has even sent a bunch to other countries. He is a hunting man through and through. He didn't object to Buck leading this lifestyle (hiking, camping, hunting *although no *****. just deer and other big game* fishing) but that is just not the way he raises dogs. He raises them for hunting. Not the really little youngins though. Buck has never seen a raccoon, although he likely will soon. They are everywhere in out neighborhood. Although I will never be able to completely get rid of those hunting instincts (he is a coonhound, after all) I can keep him from going absolutely mad when he sees a raccoon. And thanks, he is cute, isn't he? (I can't help it. Sorry Haha) He is getting HUGE!

Magicre- I never did understand the whole "outside dog" thing either, but if anyone would be as happy as a clam being an outdoor dog, it would be Buck. We leave the back slider open for most of the day and if he isn't sleeping, he is outside howling at the crows or sniffing every inch of the yard. When we call him inside, he looks at us as if we are crazy. He acts like we are making him give up the greatest thing on earth. Maybe it just comes more naturally to a dog like him, but while he is perfectly content inside and is just as happy, he ADORES being outside. It is too cute.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

not to hijack this thread, but i gotta say that not only do i want liz for a mommy...if ever i were to get a sheltie, i would hope that she'd let me have one of hers...she is one of the most conscientious breeders i've ever met, a good friend and very honourable....and nuts about her dogs....who, by the way, run her life....

liz, didn't you teach one of your collies how to drive the bus?


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

Dude and Bucks Mamma said:


> Magicre- I never did understand the whole "outside dog" thing either, but if anyone would be as happy as a clam being an outdoor dog, it would be Buck. We leave the back slider open for most of the day and if he isn't sleeping, he is outside howling at the crows or sniffing every inch of the yard. When we call him inside, he looks at us as if we are crazy. He acts like we are making him give up the greatest thing on earth. Maybe it just comes more naturally to a dog like him, but while he is perfectly content inside and is just as happy, he ADORES being outside. It is too cute.


if it's the dog's choice, i'm all for it...we keep our back slider open too...for malia who in her younger days was the best lizard hunter in georgia.....i don't how fast lizards run but she'd come home with them hanging out of her mouth. her best friend lived next door and it wasn't unusual for her to go over for a sleep over....the next door dogs slept outside....and she would too because she wanted to...

i just don't get the 'all dogs belong outside....' -- ya know....?

and every time i see that pic...i just wanna pinch his widdle belly and his cheeks...he is just too cute...


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

Not for lack of trying but they just can't reach the pedals. Though the kids love them on the church bus. They get the best behavior from the kids. One sweet, gentle puppy and the whole bus goes into whispers so they don't "scare" the pup. These are rough kids too. All my pups are on one of our busses every week.


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## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

I'd have to say that I would love one of Liz's pups as well! Those sound like some of the most "exposed" pups around! They get to see all sorts of sights and places before they go to their new homes. Buck has proven only to be nervous around ride on lawn mowers.

Magicre- Before I got married last December, I lived with my parents. Dude as well. He was forced to be an outside dog. He was never allowed in the house. He lives inside with my husband and I and I don't think I could have asked for a better house dog, although Buck is giving him a run for his money! He hates it when we shut him outside for any reason. He is one dog that I am constantly yelling, "You're a dog! Go be outside!" at. If THAT dog had his way, he would NEVER go outside. My parents were of the mentality that all dogs belong outside... unless they don't shed. It was awful. Our brittany was allowed inside while Dude was not. Buck would never choose to sleep outside. Once he hits the hay, we have to drag his speckled little rump outside so he can go one more time before we ALL go to bed. 

And I don't know about cute anymore! I would say HANDSOME! We have only had him 6 weeks and I already look at him and think, "WHERE did my sweet little puppy go?"


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

is that a current pic of him?

if so, look at those cheeks and that little belly....it's just too cute 

and i'm glad they are allowed inside....i think dogs should go out...everyone should go out now and again..

i just can't wrap my head around 'not allowed in the house ever'..that's why g'd created vacuum cleaners.


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

WOMAN WE NEED THAT THREAD I ALREADY DEMANDED!!!!! :rofl:


I WANT Buck and Dude pictures!!!!! 

:happy:
:rofl:
:rofl:
:rofl:
:rofl:
:rofl:

:whip:
Get to it!!
:whip:

:tongue:


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## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

Magicre- No, I haven't changed it yet. That belly is gone. So is that innocent look on his face. I haven't seen that in a while now! His ears are as big as ever though! And he is a LOUD little monster!

Abi-I know! I know! I'm workin' on it! Haha


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

Dude and Bucks Mamma said:


> Magicre- No, I haven't changed it yet. That belly is gone. So is that innocent look on his face. I haven't seen that in a while now! His ears are as big as ever though! And he is a LOUD little monster!
> 
> Abi-I know! I know! I'm workin' on it! Haha


well then...i simply must demand pics. there is no other way.


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## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

There. One for now. It is a somewhat updated pic. He is about 9 weeks there. I've got a ton that I haven't loaded onto my computer yet. I'll do that tonight. Abi has convinced me to put up some pictures in the "pictures" threads. I'll let you know when they are up. Wait until you see the difference between the chubby baby and the current monster!


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

YAY that new one is ADORABLE!!:biggrin1: And YAY YAY YAY for more pictures coming tomorrow!! I cant wait to see how he has developed!!:biggrin:


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

look at those paws...and those ears....he's gorgeous....


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## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

Thanks, guys. Haha. There is no better feeling than to have people tell you how good looking your dog is. It makes me feel all warm and fuzzy...


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## Herzo (Feb 5, 2011)

I love me some hound dogs. The first hound in our family was a Blue Tick and we think walker maybe not. Angie was her name and she was something else. Not sure why we ever kept them hounds around after her. Just kidding, there is something very special about a hound personality. But I know there not for everyone. I just love them. Waiting for pictures please.


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

Herzo said:


> I love me some hound dogs. The first hound in our family was a Blue Tick and we think walker maybe not. Angie was her name and she was something else. Not sure why we ever kept them hounds around after her. Just kidding, there is something very special about a hound personality. But I know there not for everyone. I just love them. Waiting for pictures please.


HAHAHAHA, same experience here!:tongue: Her name was Miss Clara Belle Soo-Low, she was a Basset Hound....my Mum, Dad and sister swore off hounds after our C.B.!:laugh: My brother and I, who she had wrapped around her paw, will forever love them!! :biggrin:


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

The new picture is so dang cute. 
SO cute. 
Did I mention it's cute? 
Because, well.. he's cute. 


MORE, PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!
:biggrin:


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## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

Haha. Thanks even more! Haha. I love hearing compliments on my guys. I am still working on loading the pictures. The camera is my husbands and it can be somewhat temperamental. He'll be home in the morning so I will get them loaded and put on a thread in the pictures section tomorrow, FOR SURE!


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## Chocx2 (Nov 16, 2009)

Love the pic of the pup I call that a poor pitiful me look and then they get what they want...lol


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## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

Well, you called it right! That was taken seconds after he had gotten in trouble for chewing up a Harry Potter book he snatched off the couch. It was too cute. He used to look apologetic after he got in trouble. Now he looks at me with total laughter in his eyes. He is at that age (in relation to kids) where when you spank them you get, "That didn't hurt" or when you ground them or take something away from them they say, "I don't care". It is MADDENING sometimes! He knows he isn't supposed to howl at the rats, but sometimes I catch him at it and get mad at him. Then he will stand there and watch me and, without ever taking his eyes off of me, he hesitantly steps forward and howls at the rats just one more time (again, while watching me the whole time) then he takes off running because he knows he has done wrong.


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## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

OMG, you call that a stage? What on earth is wrong with my dog? She's 4 and that's exactly how she acts the whole time, it's lucky I kindof like her.
I sure hope your pup grow's out of it or you are in for a lot of laughs in the years to come.
He is really cute btw, and he knows it!


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## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

I, personally, don't see him growing out of it for quite a while. He is a hellion, that one! It is so hard to get mad at him when he does things like that because he turns right around and does something so sweet! This morning, my husband, Nick, was getting ready for work (at 3:30am! dang military!) and while he was putting his boots on Buck yawns, heaves himself off the bed, and whole body drooping and ready to fall over and go back to sleep, crawls into Nick's lap, collapses, yawns again, sighs, and goes right back to sleep.

How do you get mad at that???

And Penny, I love the "timeline" of Mollie. She goes from border collie baby to cattle dog pup to GSD adult.


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## Herzo (Feb 5, 2011)

Well, Well, Well, I hate to tell you people that have never had a hound but I don't think he will grow out of it. That is there charm and there down fall. Don't ask. Not all people are meant to be hound people. But if you love a hound you find yourself putting up with thing's you never thought you would.

Is that not right hound people? I just told my husband today that the people that gave up Maddie just didn't understand her. As she was pulling on my house coat and biting my ankles, and barking at the garbage can, because she just got in trouble for trying to get into it. And she's about 11 years old. Man I love those hounds.


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

Herzo said:


> Well, Well, Well, I hate to tell you people that have never had a hound but I don't think he will grow out of it. That is there charm and there down fall. Don't ask. Not all people are meant to be hound people. But if you love a hound you find yourself putting up with thing's you never thought you would.
> 
> Is that not right hound people? I just told my husband today that the people that gave up Maddie just didn't understand her. As she was pulling on my house coat and biting my ankles, and barking at the garbage can, because she just got in trouble for trying to get into it. And she's about 11 years old. Man I love those hounds.


SOOOOOOOOOO True!!! Until about the month before she had to be put to sleep no one ever guessed our then 12 year old Basset's age!!


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## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

I LOVE his personality. A lot of dogs just lose some of their personality as they get older, but I don't see that happening with Buck. He is our first hound, but he (besides his occasional temper tantrum and his... howling fits) is a GREAT dog. He is very well behaved, has been leash trained since he was 9 weeks old and we are working on his nose deafness. His daddy is one of those rare hounds that doesn't suffer from nose deafness. Buck's breeder can call him off a scent. He even sent me a video of himself calling Reuben (Buck's sire) off of mating! Maybe, just MAYBE, Buck inherited his daddy's commitment to his people. We will have to see, but Buck definitely suffers from nose deafness right now!


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## DoglovingSenior (Jun 26, 2011)

He is TOOOOOOOOOO precious! I do not believe that he is at all naughty or stubborn . Not with those eyes. <lol>


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## swolek (Mar 31, 2011)

Herzo said:


> Well, Well, Well, I hate to tell you people that have never had a hound but I don't think he will grow out of it. That is there charm and there down fall. Don't ask. Not all people are meant to be hound people. But if you love a hound you find yourself putting up with thing's you never thought you would.
> 
> Is that not right hound people? I just told my husband today that the people that gave up Maddie just didn't understand her. As she was pulling on my house coat and biting my ankles, and barking at the garbage can, because she just got in trouble for trying to get into it. And she's about 11 years old. Man I love those hounds.


SO true! My hound experience is mostly restricted to Dachshunds and Beagles but yeah, they never really "grow out of it"!


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

Dude and Bucks Mamma said:


> I LOVE his personality. A lot of dogs just lose some of their personality as they get older, but I don't see that happening with Buck. He is our first hound, but he (besides his occasional temper tantrum and his... howling fits) is a GREAT dog. He is very well behaved, has been leash trained since he was 9 weeks old and we are working on his nose deafness. His daddy is one of those rare hounds that doesn't suffer from nose deafness. Buck's breeder can call him off a scent. He even sent me a video of himself calling Reuben (Buck's sire) off of mating! Maybe, just MAYBE, Buck inherited his daddy's commitment to his people. We will have to see, but Buck definitely suffers from nose deafness right now!


well, he's got to be pretty intelligent. he's got 'THAT' look down pat


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