# Vaccination schedule for a puppy



## cast71 (Sep 16, 2010)

Hi, I have read the sticky "All About Vaccine Issues & Vaccinations, Dodds & Schultz 2/10". Ive read it before, so it was a refresher. I got my puppy at 1.5 years old, so I had no experience with puppies shots. In fact I over vaccinated my poor puppy, because I did not know any better. He had probably had his puppy vaccinations. Since I had no records, I gave him more shots. That included the horrible lyme shot Than at 2.5 years he got boosters and every year after that, until I smartened up. It was a horrible path that involved steroids and antibiotics. He had the nastiest skin infection for 3 years. It was gross. I use to have to bath him everyday. I know its not recommended, but he had 100's of zits with puss coming out. They were in his ears as well. My vet diagnosed this as auto immune disease(it was almost auto immune disease, due to over vaccination. Luckily I acted in time and was able to salvage his immune system) and wanted to keep him on prednisone. Like a good little sheep I followed her advice, until I couldn't take seeing my poor dog like that anymore. It was one of the saddest things, I've ever had to deal with. It was an emotional and physical roller coaster. What triggered my revolt was, he had a skin infection episode, while on steroids and antibiotics. I got so fumed that, I threw all the steroids and antibiotics in the garbage. I also threw away his heartworm and the flea and tick pesticides. I started feeding him a raw diet based on raw meaty bones. Unfortunately due to not being able to house a freezer, and not being able to afford prepared raw, I am feeding grain free. I will feed raw again, I just need to move. 6 months after switching to the new regiment, he was 100% better. I continued feeding raw for another year. Than I switched to a grain free kibble. I never vacinated him or gave heartworm, flea and tick pesticides ever again. He's been 100% healthy for the past 3.5 years:smile: What I do instead of using flea and heartworm pesticides, is give my dog 2 capfuls of raw ACV and 1-2 chopped up garlic cloves every other day, or even less sometimes. This should vary by weight. The key is not to give too much and give a break for a few days. I'm also working on a spray that has essential oils in it. Its not ready yet. We have tick infestations out here. I always pull 5-10 ticks off my dog when we get out of the woods. When I find something that works, I'll post it. As of right now its pick and toss. So after this long story, I would like to learn from my mistakes. I wanted to know, how other people on here, are administrating the vaccine schedule, from puppy to adult. I know this is a contraversal subject, so I just wanted to here other opinions. At the same time, I have no intent to insult anyone with my post. Its just my opinion, which changes daily as I keep learning:smile: Sorry for the long post. By the way this site rocks


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## 1605 (May 27, 2009)

cast71 said:


> :smile: What I do instead of using flea and heartworm crap, is give my dog 2 capfuls of raw ACV and 1-2 garlic cloves every other day, or even less sometimes. This should vary by weight. The key is not to give too much and give a break for a few days. I'm also working on a spray that has essential oils in it. Its not ready yet. We have tick infestations out here. I always pull 5-10 ticks off my dog when we get out of the woods. When I find something that works, I'll post it. As of right now its pick and toss.


I know we all want to find more natural ways to combat fleas & ticks on our dogs, but I have yet to find any true scientific evidence that this "home remedy" actually works. Especially since garlic is regarded by some as being almost as toxic as onions. 

So if you have a link to an accredited study on the subject, I would love to read it.

As for not giving your dog heartworm meds... guess that's your decision. But here in FL we need to do it year-round.


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## wags (Jan 31, 2009)

I use interceptor for heart worm and Vectra 3D for fleas ticks and I tell you the dogs have had no problems with fleas and ticks with the Vectra 3D . I don't know everyones views on this product, but for my dogs, they have had no bad reactions what so ever~ all 4 of them! So I have found something that works well for them and like it! Not endorsing the product, just saying it works for my dogs!

as for natural I really have not tried anything el~ natural for them!


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## cast71 (Sep 16, 2010)

I really do not have any scientific studies to point you to. The only thing I can say is I have friends that have been giving small doses of garlic for years with only positive results. They hardly ever go to a vet. My sister was giving her lab garlic until the vet scared her and she stopped. 3 months later, her dog crapped out a 6 inch worm. she freaked out. I told her to start up the garlic again and she never had another problem. Both of our dogs are healthy. She lives in a city and never even had a flea on her dog. The dog goes to dog parks. I know thats not any scientific study, but thats all I have. I would agree that a whole garlic bulb would be toxic, but I don not think small amounts are toxic. A lot of things in large amounts can be toxic. Salt is toxic in large amounts. Even water is toxic if consumed in large amounts. I read somewhere online, wolfs in the wild will eat chives to get rid of worms. Unfortunately, garlic is the only alternative I know of, that is effective of ridding heartworm. RAW ACV is not listed as toxic, and it will keep your dog free of fleas and parasites(except worms and heartworms), good for arthritis, good for coat and good for digestion. I understand why people use heartworm meds and I'm not trying to put anyone down for it. I know you love your dogs and hate giving them heartworm meds. I also understand its hard to give something like garlic to your dogs, with 1000's of websites saying its poisonous(theres also a ton of websites saying raw is dangerous but we know better). That includes the ASPCA website. They also recommend over vaccinating. Which brings me back to my original question, about vaccination schedules for puppies?


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

wags said:


> I don't know everyones views on this product, but for my dogs, they have had no bad reactions what so ever~ all 4 of them!


Just because you don't see physical symptoms within a few days of giving heartworm or flea prevenatives doesn't mean those chemicals aren't harming your dog long term. There is no way that giving your dog poisons every month, month in and month out for years, can have a positive effect on the body.


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## cast71 (Sep 16, 2010)

I agree 100%. That's why when I switched to raw I also started searching for alternatives to flea, tick and heartworm. I'm not saying, I'm not doing any damage to my dog by using garlic. I really don't know?? I'm probablly doing damage to my dog feeding a highly proccessed diet Unfortunately thats what I must do for now. It does kill heartworms and intestinal worms. To parasites its poisonous. Is It poisonous to dogs in small amounts? It is poisonous to cats in any amount. It is much less toxic than onions. I feel better about giving it to my dog, than when I use to give him pesticides. Still not saying its better or worse. No one might ever know, because they wont do any research on it. Sound familiar? Alternative medicine face the same problems as raw feeding. I did alot of reading on garlic. I will try and find some of the sites I visited and link them. I guess I should of saved those sites 

@RFD by the way I read your raw feeding 101 and I use to read your posts on yahoo groups rawfeeding. Thanks a lot for that webpage, it really made rawfeeding easy. It's like rawfeeding for dummies ahahahahaa (I still have a cement mixing box in my kitchen, so I don't get blood and guts, all over the floor). When pork shoulders, whole chickens and turkeys go on sale, my boy's off of kibble for a few days. I could only hold like 2 chickens and 1 turkey at a time ;0( The funny thing is, he always goes for the guts and neck first, then on to the rest of the carcass. I guess its like riding a bike.


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

cast71 said:


> @RFD by the way I read your raw feeding 101 and I use to read your posts on yahoo groups rawfeeding. Thanks a lot for that webpage, it really made rawfeeding easy. It's like rawfeeding for dummies ahahahahaa I still have a cement mixing box in my kitchen(so I don't get blood and guts, all over the ceramic floor). When whole chickens and turkeys go on sale, my boy's off of kibble for a few days. I could only hold like 2 chickens and 1 turkey at a time ;0( The funny thing is, he always goes for the guts and neck first, then on to the rest of the carcass. I guess its like riding a bike.


HAHA, You've been around a long time then. I haven't posted there in several hundred years. :biggrin:


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## cast71 (Sep 16, 2010)

yeah I haven't been on that sight for about 3 years. After my dogs health was 100% and I had raw feeding down(never really get it down, its on ongoing learning process, as you find new things to feed), I no longer needed to go back there. I just visited today because I forgot the name of the site ahahaahahaha I have it in my favorites. I miss the days in the supermarket, when there where sales. I use to fill up a whole cart of meat, get crazy looks and questions at checkout, load the trunk, than go back to do my food shopping. My 2 freezers are long gone now. Now I have a tiny little refigerator/freezer I still have fun ever once in awhile though. I am a believer in raw feeding. My dog looked horrible for 3 years. Everyone that saw my dog, said I should goto the vet. My reply was, I went to multiple vets. It got old fast. My friends kept saying, they wouldn't be able to handle my sick dog. After 6 months on raw, and no more flea and tick stuff, my friends and myself could not believe our eyes. 180 degree. My friends thought I was crazy feeding raw. They would get mad when I through him a pork shoulder and we were eating burgers ahahahaahaha.

here are some links on garlic. the second site list amounts by weight. This time I saved the sites to bookmark;0)

http://www.dogtreatrecipes.org/garlic-and-your-dog.html

http://www.natural-dog-health-remedies.com/garlic-for-dogs.html


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## wags (Jan 31, 2009)

RawFedDogs said:


> Just because you don't see physical symptoms within a few days of giving heartworm or flea prevenatives doesn't mean those chemicals aren't harming your dog long term. There is no way that giving your dog poisons every month, month in and month out for years, can have a positive effect on the body.


Well I certainly hope I am not harming my dog long term! :frown: I myself take medicines that I wonder what the long term effect will be even with scientific studies out there and asking doctors their opinions and what they actually know of the medicines! I do the same with the vets ask exactly what they know of what I am giving! Food wise (vets)they suck but medicine wise they are pretty good I feel!At least my vets are! Doesn't everyone wonder about what the long term effects on anything we do or give ourselves or our dogs will do? All we can do is give our honest opinions on what the effects are at the time we are asked! But how do You know they are poisons? Do you know dogs that have been on these products long term and have had ill effects? Please elaborate if you do. Or are you just assuming? So far so good for what I am doing! But I will let you and anyone who would ask know if anything bad happens to my dogs because of what I am giving them! But so far they are doing great! Like I said I was not endorsing a product~~ but finding something natural to replace this is pretty hard to do!


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

wags said:


> But how do You know they are poisons?


Because they kill heartworms and fleas.



> Do you know dogs that have been on these products long term and have had ill effects? Please elaborate if you do.


No



> Or are you just assuming?


I'm assuming that if you put enough poison into any animal's body over time its bound to have a detrimental effect.


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## trooperchick (Oct 11, 2010)

RawFedDogs said:


> Because they kill heartworms and fleas.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have a question. What do you use for heartworm prevention and flea and tick prevention? I want to get more holistic but fleas are terriable where I am. Thanks


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

trooperchick said:


> I have a question. What do you use for heartworm prevention and flea and tick prevention? I want to get more holistic but fleas are terriable where I am. Thanks


I live right next to a swamp and its quite a generator of mosquitoes. I use heartgard but only give 4 doses a year. About mid may, both dogs get a heartworm check at the vet's. Then 6 weeks after that they get their first dose of prevenative. The get a dose every 6 weeks afterwards until around the first part of November. They are due a dose tonight and it MAY be the last dose of the year depending on weather. I know its poison but I only give 4 doses/year instead of 12 that most people give.

For fleas I use Comfortis which is a pill. Again, yes, its a poison but I only give one when I actually see a flea. This year each dog got one pill not 12 like many people give (one a month).

So yes, I'm putting poison in my dogs but a minimum amount. Much less than recommended doses. I have tried many of the "natural" flea remedies without a lot of luck. Living next to the swamp, I am afraid of the natural heartworm prevenatives.


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## cast71 (Sep 16, 2010)

Hi wags :smile:

I think that flea, tick and heartworm meds are poisionous to flea ticks and heartworrms. Garlic is poisionous to them as well. They both kill them. I don't think RAW ACV is poisionous, because I'm pretty sure it doesn't kill parasites. It just makes there environment unpleasant, so they leave. When feeding it to your dog, it actually comes out of there skin as well as being in there blood stream. The fleas do not like this. My dog as well as my sisters dog has never had 1 flea. She lives in a city and I visit often. There are tons of fleas, worms and other parasites in that environment. Where I live, I mostly have to deal with ticks. As far as flea, tick and heartworm stuff, I don't know long term damage. I also dont know if I'm doing long term damage using alternatives. I use the same alternative medicine on myself. I have high blood pressure, and have been combating it for years, without meds from the doctor. I pretty much have it under control now. I use garlic, ACV and coconut oil. Forgot to metion that coconut oil is similar to garlic, and you can give that to your dog and cat. I'm not sure if it will get rid of heartworms though. Basically I use alternative medicine, because I dont like taking pills. Especially since I have no clue what's in them. I also think that using pesticides around your house causes cancer. I was using ortho max granulars and sprays, around my yard for 6 years I use to have ticks in my yard and everyone around here had lyme disease at one time. After using the pesticides around my house, there were no more ticks. I really did not like using them, since I have a water well and my dog likes to graze. This year I used food grade diatomaceous earth(not the same as what you find in home depot for pools. That one has harmful chemicals in it). You can get it at animal feed stores for around $10 for 50 lbs. You can also get it on Amazon. Farmers use it to mix in there feeds. It keeps bugs out of the feed and deworms there animals. I've used it on my dog. I stopped, because I figured there was no need, as long as he's eating garlic. You can spread it around your foundation, but do not put it where you wouldn't want to see it. It can get messy. Than I use about a 1/2 cup of it mixed with 1 tablespoon of dish washing liquid to a gallon of water. I mix that in a pump sprayer and spray my lawn. When it dries it looks like a white film instead of dust. I found this very effective. The only difference was, I had to apply this more often. The rain washes it away. Where as I only applied orthomax once per season. The benefits are its not a pesticide. It kills bugs by cutting through there skin. I've used this to kill bed bugs. It takes 3 weeks but it works. Put it in a sock and pat it around your house. Make sure you wear a dust mask. *YOU DO NOT WANT TO INHALE IT!* I'm not sure if I answered your question, about long term effects of using medicine, on people and animals? I will tell you, I do have concerns about it.

I'm still trying to figure out, the least vaccination schedule, while still being effective. I haven't heard anyones opinions about it :frown: From reading "All About Vaccine Issues & Vaccinations, Dodds & Schultz 2/10" , it states to give the last dose of 5in1 at 14-16 weeks. It also states to give the rabies as late as possible by the law, 16-24 weeks. I was thinking maybe a good schedule would be 5in1 at 4 months and then a rabies at 6months. Than follow up with a 5in1 booster at 16months and a rabies at 18 months. Anyone think that you need more shots than that? I would appreciate any feedback. Thanks.


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## cast71 (Sep 16, 2010)

> For fleas I use Comfortis which is a pill. Again, yes, its a poison but I only give one when I actually see a flea. This year each dog got one pill not 12 like many people give (one a month).





> I have tried many of the "natural" flea remedies without a lot of luck.


Have you tried feeding RAW Apple Cider Vinegar. It works for me with fleas. You can look into it, but it shouldn't have any negative effects on your dogs. It would be a good experiment for you, since you live next to a swamp. If you never got another flea again, that would elimante 1 pill:smile: My dog weighs 84lbs and I give him 2 tablespoons a day. Make sure you mix it up. You want him to get a good dose of "mother":biggrin:


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

cast71 said:


> Have you tried feeding RAW Apple Cider Vinegar.


No I haven't. It's a highly questionable snake oil that claims to cure most any ailment known to man and isn't proven to cure anything. It can be dangerous because it's highly acidic and has been known to cause several health problems. It has been associated with increased risk of bladder cancer. Pure ACV can damage tooth enamel and damage tissues in throat and mouth. It has been known to cause burns on the skin. It has been linked to lower potassium levels in the body and lower bone density.

_A 2005 study looked at the ingredients of eight different brands of apple cider vinegar supplements. The researchers found that:

1. The ingredients listed on the box did not reflect the actual ingredients. 

2. The ingredients varied a great deal between different brands. 

3. The recommended dosages varied a great deal between brands. 

Most disturbing, the chemical analysis of these samples led the researchers to doubt whether any of these brands actually contained any apple cider vinegar at all._
Apple Cider Vinegar WebMD web page

The places on the internet that give all the glowing reports of ACV are places that sell it. So no, I won't be giving any to my dogs. It's not as harmless as is touted by the vendors.


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## wags (Jan 31, 2009)

RawFedDogs said:


> So yes, I'm putting poison in my dogs but a minimum amount. Much less than recommended doses. .


And that is what I am doing as well as minimal as possible. :wink:Same as with my own regimine of meds! I also try to use meds for the dogs and myself, only when needed! I sure dont want to think I am killing my dogs or myself with the lack of knowledge!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I do try to keep up with the latest and greatest and whew, thats alot of reading UGH!:smile:


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## wags (Jan 31, 2009)

Quote:
Originally Posted by wags 
But how do You know they are poisons? 

Because they kill heartworms and fleas.


Quote:
Do you know dogs that have been on these products long term and have had ill effects? Please elaborate if you do. 

No


Quote:
Or are you just assuming? 

I'm assuming that if you put enough poison into any animal's body over time its bound to have a detrimental effect. 

I appreciate your honesty . Thankyou!


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