# New to Raw



## Mag's mom (Jan 28, 2015)

Hi there, I started my 4 year old 165lb Dogue de Bordeaux on raw chicken quarters 3 days ago. I bought them from the supermarket. He ate the first quarter leg but wouldn't eat anymore that night, yesterday or today. He nibbled at the quarters and just left it there. I gave him some chicken necks which he loved but chicken necks can't be his primary source of protein can it? I tried 6 small chicken necks and three Perdue brand thighs this morning- he ate the necks but didn't touch the thighs. Also, he seems to like pigfeet as a snack. 
Both nites/mornings he vomited mostly bile and some tiny chicken pieces.
I'm worried that he's going to starve. I have a 40 lb case of chicken quarters waiting for me to pick up from a butcher, so I'm hoping that will make the difference.


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## zoozoo (Jan 19, 2015)

Is the chicken you bought from the supermarket enhanced at all? On the package check the sodium content, it shouldnt be more than about 65-90mg per 4oz. 

If they're not enhanced, then you might have to practice a little tough love with your pup. You hand him his dinner, give him some time to eat, and if he refuses to eat it you just pick it back up, put it in the fridge, and give it to him again at the next meal time. A healthy dog will not starve himself and eventually he will eat it. Giving him something else every time he refuses to eat will just teach him to be picky. 

Chicken necks are a bit small for a DDB, that can be a choking hazard. Just keep an eye out. They're fine for bone content but it wont be enough meat to be fed as your source of chicken.

If youre just now transitioning, be careful with the pig feet. Those are very fatty and can cause digestive upset


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## Mag's mom (Jan 28, 2015)

Thank you for replying! 

The sodium content is actually 80mg per 4 oz serving. I really hope the 40lb case of quarters the butcher ordered for me are not enhanced. 
Giving him something different with each meal is exactly what we were doing. He definitely is picky! Even with kibble he is picky. 

Okay. If you say dogs will not starve themselves, then should I continue letting him not eat anything, not even the necks? He pukes the hunger bile throughout the day and in the middle of the night and morning. It equates to a whole lot, about 10 to 25 puddles ranging from silver dollar size to pancake size, some having the tiny bones from the necks. Is that harmful for them?


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## zoozoo (Jan 19, 2015)

I believe 80mg per 4oz is within the 'safe' range too, so it sounds like it may not be a sodium issue. I'll edit my previous post.

How long has it been since his last meal/how long have you waited in the past? How often do you feed him?
I personally would offer him his dinner, wait about half an hour and then put it away if hes not even trying to eat it. Then try again in the morning. No treats or anything else in between. Other raw feeders have gone several days doing this, I've only had to go 2 days before my girl gave in and she never was picky with her food again. 

I've personally never had to deal with that amount of puking. You are certain that it's hunger pukes? 
Puking some bone wont hurt him, it happens during transition and I found that my dog tends to hunger puke bone bits if she's eating way too much bone and not enough meat. That might be his issue with only eating necks lately. 
That amount of puking would concern me, honestly.. I've never had a dog puke that much. My concern is dehydration and his esophagus. You can either try to offer him dinner and then take it up, or you can try to fast him for a day and give him some homemade chicken broth/liver broth to keep him hydrated. (Boil chicken or liver in plain water, remove all meat and bones, and cool the broth. Dont add any seasonings or veggies). Please keep us updated!


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## Kritter (Jan 9, 2015)

Hi-I don't think I am as experienced as zoozoo on this, I only feed one RMB meal per week with a little boneless meat. My first thought, maybe he has a chicken allergy? I'm sure that's a long shot but you did not say what he was eating previously. Also, have you tried a raw chicken grind? To see if it's the chicken itself or the bones maybe.


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## Celt (Dec 27, 2010)

I don't know if it's a problem with your pup but none of mine "like" chicken skin or fat (which I can understand). I think for mine it's a texture thing because they'll eat "firm" fats but not "squishy" fats.


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## Mag's mom (Jan 28, 2015)

Thanks! He was eating Blue Wilderness chicken kibble mixed with either shredded cheese or raw chicken necks. I thought of having the whole quarter leg ground up, I could ask the butcher to do it maybe. Did you mean gound up including the bones?
I'm starting to lime the idea of one Raw meal per week. He had a rough day yesterday and the night before. After going through those first three days of him eating only necks and ignoring or picking at the leg quarters he had a complete day of the worst diarrhea. We didn't feed him anything all day yesterday to clear his system. I started him back on the kibble today.


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## Kritter (Jan 9, 2015)

I suggested the grinds (bone in or out) just to see if it was the chicken itself or the form that it came in. Sounds like the chicken is not the issue. I actually feed mostly grinds. I only do 1 RMB per week because that works for us. I rotate RMB proteins each week in addition to offering several proteins in grinds during the week. 

Sounds like he needs a digestive reset. Maybe get him squared away on the kibble and try again slowly. You could have your butcher grind all or some of those quarters you have coming, feed a little as snacks for a few days, when your confident he's tolerating it then feed a meal. This is what I did with my dogs and they've never disliked a protein or any meal I have given them. Just a thought.


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## zoozoo (Jan 19, 2015)

I agree with Kritter here. I think you need to give him a rest, start over and go very slowly. If you want to look into grinds, just make sure to feed RMB (raw meaty bones) here and there to promote dental health.


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

Keep on with the quarters. Necks are really too small for a dog that size. You can also use chicken backs as well. Keep offering them, and eventually he will eat. A healthy dog will always eat when they get hungry enough. If he doesn't eat, you aren't starving him. He is choosing not to eat. 

Once he does start to eat, keep him on the bone in chicken for at least two weeks. After that, you will move on to turkey and do the same. Then if you can get maybe duck, again do the same. After that, move on to pork, beef and other red meats. Organ like liver will come in after about three months or so. 

Chicken by itself can't be the only protein fed. The whole key to getting all the needed nutrients from a raw diet is variety. Once you are transitioned through all proteins, feed as much variety as you can.


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## Kritter (Jan 9, 2015)

Naturalfeddogs-may I ask why you recommend this when Mag's mom has specifically said he doesn't like the quarters? Turkey necks might be more appropriate as well as chicken backs, but he's struggling with the quarters. Why force it?


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

Because it sounds more like pickiness to me, and I don't encourage that. It sounds like chicken necks are fine. Still chicken, so I would continue trying quarters. If they get their way with every protein they don't "like", then a new raw feeder may not know, and continue to feed the one protein the dog likes, and nothing else. Turkey is fine also, but what about if the dog doesn't want that either? I guess jump right on to red meats. Proteins are fed in a certain order in the beginning for a reason. 

If there is a true allergic reaction, thats different.


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## Mag's mom (Jan 28, 2015)

Thank you! I will give it another go. 

One reason I am hesitant to try again is we live in Northeast Pa, with non stop snow, and he is an indoor dog. He goes out only when we walk him. So this whole trial was done in our home and the combination of cleaning the raw food contact areas and much worse, his worst bout of diarrhea to date, was an unexpected inconvenience. Thank goodness I work from home or we all would've come back to a disaster in the house. 

I'm still wondering what caused the diarrhea. The numerous times we put the RMB down in those 3 days, it was left out anywhere from 10 minutes to couple of hours. I've since thrown all that meat out and now have the case from the butcher. Maybe Ill try one day a week and then two and so on...


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

Overfeeding can cause diarrhea, high sodium content can cause it, or if the skin/fat is left on in the beginning that could also cause it. So, maybe start with removing the skin/fat from the chicken until the poops clear up, and maybe back off the amount for a couple of feedings also.


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