# 10:10:80 Ratio Question



## TuckersMom (Apr 27, 2011)

I am still working through trying to get a grip on the 10:10:80 ratio of feeding and need some help.  I was talking to my husband about it last night (I'm the one who has done all the research on raw). He doesn't think I should be feeding him RMBs every night. He was thinking more like once a week since it's only 10% vs. 80% meat. Can you guys help me with the ratio? How often should I be feeding RMBs if it should only be 10% of what I feed him? He weighs 19 pounds so I've been feeding him 4 oz in the morning and 4 oz in the evening. In the evening I've been giving him the RMBs most of the time but not always. He has stayed at the same weight, so I'm glad about that. I feel like I've been giving him too much bone  :frown: but I don't know what to do. 

Like I mentioned in another thread, he was not his usual self this morning, and I'm assuming this has to do with his new way of eating because this has never happened before.

Thanking you ahead of time for your help!


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## CavePaws (Jan 25, 2011)

Well, I think if you did RMBs once a week you'd probably have loose stools. You need to figure out how many boneless meals in a row Tucker can handle before having loose stool. I can get away with two or three boneless meals in a row for my dogs, except for Puck. I don't normally do this...Most of the time I have a bone-in the morning and a larger boneless meal at night.So my menu looks something like this, except I do include a tiny bit of organ every other meal it may be spleen or liver:

sun.: a.m. chicken 1/4 , p.m. beef heart
mon.: a.m beef heart , p.m. green tripe
tues.: a.m ground pork , p.m. eggs, mackerel, salmon
wed.: a.m. chicken 1/4 , p.m. beef heart
thurs: pork ribs , ground pork
fri: a.m beef heart, p.m. mackerel, eggs, salmon
sat: a.m. green tripe , p.m. chicken 1/4

I just ordered more boneless meats this time so that my menu will probably have far less RMB in it. I just make the RMB meals small and the boneless big. I really don't measure, honestly I probably overfeed them...But who cares since they are keeping nice weights.


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## SpooOwner (Oct 1, 2010)

Bottom line: Watch the poop. White poop = too much bone; soft poop = too little bone.

A little more info: RMBs have meat _and_ bone, so RMBs should be more than 10% of meals. Most people feed bone-in meals either every other meal or every 3d meal. However, there is a lot of variation, so it's best to watch the poop for a while to get a sense of how often you should feed bone.


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## monkeys23 (Dec 8, 2010)

What I did was pair the RMB with the organ into a meal so that I got the proper balance.
Here's what Lily's menu looks like:
Mon: MM meal both am and pm, what it is varies of course, but lots of beef heart and tongue
Tues: am is MM meal and pm is RMB + organ (each meal is 0.5lb total, for a daily total of 1lb)
Wed: MM
Thurs: MM am and RMB + O pm
Fri: MM
Sat: MM am and RMB + O pm
Sun: MM am and RMB + O pm

So the way the weights of everything works out, its just about exactly 80/10/10 over the course of the week.
I found doing it this way made it pretty simple to balance the ratios for me. :smile:


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## monkeys23 (Dec 8, 2010)

Yes, I agree totally!! Though I've found if I get much over the 10% total bone with Lily her poo gets too hard. Just seems to be her system.
Scout the foster gets a lot of chicken quarters through the week though and does fine despite the higher bone content.



SpooOwner said:


> Bottom line: Watch the poop. White poop = too much bone; soft poop = too little bone.
> 
> A little more info: RMBs have meat _and_ bone, so RMBs should be more than 10% of meals. Most people feed bone-in meals either every other meal or every 3d meal. However, there is a lot of variation, so it's best to watch the poop for a while to get a sense of how often you should feed bone.


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## TuckersMom (Apr 27, 2011)

monkeys23 said:


> What I did was pair the RMB with the organ into a meal so that I got the proper balance.
> Here's what Lily's menu looks like:
> Mon: MM meal both am and pm, what it is varies of course, but lots of beef heart and tongue
> Tues: am is MM meal and pm is RMB + organ (each meal is 0.5lb total, for a daily total of 1lb)
> ...


Does MM mean meaty meat as in, no bones?

So you feed RMBs 4 times a week?

Did you have to work at this to find out what was best for your dog?

How did you figure out that your week's menu is almost exactly 80/10/10 over the course of a week? I guess this is what I need to know how to do :smile: I'm terrible at math; I have no idea how to do it


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## Tobi (Mar 18, 2011)

It doesn't have to be perfect 80/10/10 it is simply a rough guideline, somedogs won't handle as much straight meat so they may get 15 bone/10organ/75 meat, there is no real way to tell how much bone you're feeding unless you're stripping the meat from the bone and weighing it.


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## TuckersMom (Apr 27, 2011)

CavePaws said:


> Well, I think if you did RMBs once a week you'd probably have loose stools. You need to figure out how many boneless meals in a row Tucker can handle before having loose stool. I can get away with two or three boneless meals in a row for my dogs, except for Puck. I don't normally do this...Most of the time I have a bone-in the morning and a larger boneless meal at night.So my menu looks something like this, except I do include a tiny bit of organ every other meal it may be spleen or liver:
> 
> sun.: a.m. chicken 1/4 , p.m. beef heart
> mon.: a.m beef heart , p.m. green tripe
> ...


The 1/4 chicken includes bone, correct? So you feed RMBs 4 times a week also? Maybe I've been feeding too much bone.


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

You are really overthinking this. There is no more exact requirements in a dog's diet than there is in yours. Do you measure exact amounts of meat, veggies, fruits, dairy, water, etc in your diet? I doubt it. Forget you ever read about 80-10-10. Pretend it never existed. It is arbitrary numbers someone came up with and posted in a discussion group like this. Someone else posted it and then someone else. Before long it took on a life of its own and has somehow become engraved in stone. I know this because I watch the whole think happen about 10 years ago. I know who started it and how they came up with the numbers. Sooooo, forget them.

Here's what you need to know ... feed meat, bones, and organs from a variety of animals (once acclimated to raw). Feed mostly meat, some bone, and some organs. Exact ratios don't matter in the least. MOSTLY meat, SOME bone, and SOME organs. Don't over think. Don't make a simple task (feeding a dog) into something unnecessarily complicated. :smile:


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## luvMyBRT (Mar 8, 2010)

It's as easy as this:
-Feed a nice variety
-Watch body condition
-Watch stools

That's it. :whoo::whoo:


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## JayJayisme (Aug 2, 2009)

I'm with Bill (RFD) on this. Keep it simple. Feed some meat. Feed some bones. Feed some organs. Make adjustments according to the poop. 

Enjoy life. That's it.


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## monkeys23 (Dec 8, 2010)

Yes.

I found within the first week on raw that she does better with more boneless meat. So yes, this is what specifically works for Lily.
I don't measure things exactly ever, I just know rough weights of everything and since she eats one pound a day it was pretty easy to use basic math to calculate what amounts of what she would need over the course of the week.

Like I said, my foster dog Scout gets a LOT more bone in meals because she tolerates them. She can eat rich boneless meals too, but she doesn't get totally dry crumbly poo with the higher bone in ratio like Lily does. I think that specific ratio you use should be tailored to your dog... the 80/10/10 is just a good baseline to shoot for. :smile:



TuckersMom said:


> Does MM mean meaty meat as in, no bones?
> 
> So you feed RMBs 4 times a week?
> 
> ...


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## monkeys23 (Dec 8, 2010)

RawFedDogs said:


> You are really overthinking this. There is no more exact requirements in a dog's diet than there is in yours. Do you measure exact amounts of meat, veggies, fruits, dairy, water, etc in your diet? I doubt it. Forget you ever read about 80-10-10. Pretend it never existed. It is arbitrary numbers someone came up with and posted in a discussion group like this. Someone else posted it and then someone else. Before long it took on a life of its own and has somehow become engraved in stone. I know this because I watch the whole think happen about 10 years ago. I know who started it and how they came up with the numbers. Sooooo, forget them.
> 
> Here's what you need to know ... feed meat, bones, and organs from a variety of animals (once acclimated to raw). Feed mostly meat, some bone, and some organs. Exact ratios don't matter in the least. MOSTLY meat, SOME bone, and SOME organs. Don't over think. Don't make a simple task (feeding a dog) into something unnecessarily complicated. :smile:


I like your approach!


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## TuckersMom (Apr 27, 2011)

RawFedDogs said:


> You are really overthinking this. There is no more exact requirements in a dog's diet than there is in yours. Do you measure exact amounts of meat, veggies, fruits, dairy, water, etc in your diet? I doubt it. Forget you ever read about 80-10-10. Pretend it never existed. It is arbitrary numbers someone came up with and posted in a discussion group like this. Someone else posted it and then someone else. Before long it took on a life of its own and has somehow become engraved in stone. I know this because I watch the whole think happen about 10 years ago. I know who started it and how they came up with the numbers. Sooooo, forget them.
> 
> Here's what you need to know ... feed meat, bones, and organs from a variety of animals (once acclimated to raw). Feed mostly meat, some bone, and some organs. Exact ratios don't matter in the least. MOSTLY meat, SOME bone, and SOME organs. Don't over think. Don't make a simple task (feeding a dog) into something unnecessarily complicated. :smile:


Thank you! You made me feel much better and set my mind at ease. You are right, I am making the simple task of feeding a dog into something unnecessarily complicated. I appreciate you "telling me like it is." :smile:


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## TuckersMom (Apr 27, 2011)

JayJayisme said:


> I'm with Bill (RFD) on this. Keep it simple. Feed some meat. Feed some bones. Feed some organs. Make adjustments according to the poop.
> 
> Enjoy life. That's it.


I appreciate the perspective you both gave me...thank you! :smile:


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## TuckersMom (Apr 27, 2011)

Tobi said:


> ...there is no real way to tell how much bone you're feeding unless you're stripping the meat from the bone and weighing it.


That's what I've been thinking and why I've been fretting over this. Bill set me straight :smile:


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## sozzle (May 18, 2011)

Good to read this thread because I was periodically worrying about this aspect also. I try not to worry about it now ie my dog gets fed twice a day, one boney meal say a chicken frame and then the next one will be a meat/tripe one.


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## RaisingWolves (Mar 19, 2011)

CavePaws said:


> I can get away with two or three boneless meals in a row for my dogs, except for Puck. I don't normally do this...Most of the time I have a bone-in the morning and a larger boneless meal at night.


This is how it is in my house. One can handle 3 boneless meals in a row, my senior boxer can only handle one boneless meal. I feed him one bone in meal and one big boneless meal. When I first started feeding PMR, I would spend a lot of time calculating the ounces, doing the math. It so much easier to look at the poop!


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## CavePaws (Jan 25, 2011)

TuckersMom said:


> The 1/4 chicken includes bone, correct? So you feed RMBs 4 times a week also? Maybe I've been feeding too much bone.


Yes, but, that menu I gave you is definitely not concrete. I switch it up a lot and generally don't worry much about the ratios. Sometimes I feed once a day, sometimes twice. I feed the dogs at my convenience and if I know I only have the time to watch over them once that day when they eat, then I just feed them a giant meal of RMBs + boneless, or giant RMB, or giant boneless. Just like RawFedDogs said, don't over think it. You don't have to. I don't weigh my dogs meals, honestly sometimes they get a meal that might be much bigger than they require, and sometimes they may get a meal that is smaller than they need. It all balances out over time and generally I don't worry about it. My dogs haven't had hunger pukes yet so I'm guessing it is because they never know when they are going to eat and how much. I would recommend a schedule with tons of variance.


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## Northwoods10 (Nov 22, 2010)

Bill said it well! 

Don't worry too much about it, just watch your dogs appearance & stools and go from there. It really is an easy thing! 

I think raw scares a lot of people off by this thinking: That we need to measure & be precise on everything we put into their bowls. When its really just feeding a little of this, a little of that, and a little more of this. 

I was worried about it too when I started, now I have it down in my head pretty much what each dog needs over time and how to fix something if there is an issue. 

Good luck!


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## lily (May 16, 2011)

i can never get the hang of the ratio thing,so i just feed whatever lol,meat,bone ,fish etc,i just keep an eye on the way shes looks and her poops lol,karen


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## Ringoratter (Feb 13, 2011)

This was a great question. I too kept trying to figure out how I would just give 10% bone which would really only allow them to have bone about 2 x per week. I have increased the meat only meals and so far they are doing great, no diarrhea. I can definitely tell when they get too much bone and adjust meals accordingly.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

TuckersMom said:


> Thank you! You made me feel much better and set my mind at ease. You are right, I am making the simple task of feeding a dog into something unnecessarily complicated. I appreciate you "telling me like it is." :smile:


that's exactly what i did.....i wish i had never read about the 80-10-10 'guideline'.....the word 'guideline' never penetrated, so i was fanatically weighing out ten percent of this, ten percent of that and 80 percent of the other.....and at the same time, making sure my 18 pound pug did not get more than 3 oz.....and my 36 pound mutt got 6 oz per meal.

if i had continued doing that, i'd be in a rubber room by now...it was exhausting.

i still weigh things out because i suck at eyeballing, but the poo tells the story.....

what i realised is that if my dogs poo is dark and a little loose, well....she or he has had a wee bit too much red meat or heart....

and the next meal is a drumstick or something with bone in it....

some dogs need more bone than others, too....watch the poo. it is the window into raw feeding's soul. : )

oh. and breathe.


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## TuckersMom (Apr 27, 2011)

RaisingWolves said:


> This is how it is in my house. One can handle 3 boneless meals in a row, my senior boxer can only handle one boneless meal. I feed him one bone in meal and one big boneless meal. When I first started feeding PMR, I would spend a lot of time calculating the ounces, doing the math. It so much easier to look at the poop!


Yes! I never thought I'd be "studying" to become an expert on poop, LOL


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

magicre said:


> what i realised is that if my dogs poo is dark and a little loose, well....she or he has had a wee bit too much red meat or heart....


What I realized is that poo color is determined by what food is making it up. Dark and little loose means the heart meal is coming out. Yellowish means a chicken meal is coming out. Sometimes it will be two different colors in the same poo. At first it will be dark then turning yellow towards the end. That would be the chicken backs fed the next morning after an evening meal of beef heart. :smile: DANG!!!! I'm GOOD at poo!!! :biggrin: Some people say I'm full of it anyway. :biggrin:


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## TuckersMom (Apr 27, 2011)

magicre said:


> that's exactly what i did.....i wish i had never read about the 80-10-10 'guideline'.....the word 'guideline' never penetrated, so i was fanatically weighing out ten percent of this, ten percent of that and 80 percent of the other.....and at the same time, making sure my 18 pound pug did not get more than 3 oz.....and my 36 pound mutt got 6 oz per meal.
> 
> if i had continued doing that, i'd be in a rubber room by now...it was exhausting.
> 
> ...


Great encouragement; words of wisdom; and a laugh or two thrown in. Appreciate it! :smile:


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## TuckersMom (Apr 27, 2011)

Ringoratter said:


> This was a great question. I too kept trying to figure out how I would just give 10% bone which would really only allow them to have bone about 2 x per week. I have increased the meat only meals and so far they are doing great, no diarrhea. I can definitely tell when they get too much bone and adjust meals accordingly.


It sounds like you're doing a great job and have become an expert in Poop 101 :smile: Thanks for the encouragement.


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## TuckersMom (Apr 27, 2011)

lily said:


> i can never get the hang of the ratio thing,so i just feed whatever lol,meat,bone ,fish etc,i just keep an eye on the way shes looks and her poops lol,karen


It sounds like the goal for us all is to become POOP experts, LOL! I feel better after reading that others had a problem with the ratio thing as well. It was really driving me bonkers. I'm doing much better now! :smile:


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## TuckersMom (Apr 27, 2011)

Northwoods10 said:


> Bill said it well!
> 
> Don't worry too much about it, just watch your dogs appearance & stools and go from there. It really is an easy thing!
> 
> ...


Thanks so much for your encouragement; I really appreciate it! :smile:


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## TuckersMom (Apr 27, 2011)

CavePaws said:


> Yes, but, that menu I gave you is definitely not concrete. I switch it up a lot and generally don't worry much about the ratios. Sometimes I feed once a day, sometimes twice. I feed the dogs at my convenience and if I know I only have the time to watch over them once that day when they eat, then I just feed them a giant meal of RMBs + boneless, or giant RMB, or giant boneless. Just like RawFedDogs said, don't over think it. You don't have to. I don't weigh my dogs meals, honestly sometimes they get a meal that might be much bigger than they require, and sometimes they may get a meal that is smaller than they need. It all balances out over time and generally I don't worry about it. My dogs haven't had hunger pukes yet so I'm guessing it is because they never know when they are going to eat and how much. I would recommend a schedule with tons of variance.


Thank you for those pointers, it sounds like you are doing a great job! I'm so glad I don't have to worry about being so precise about it. What a relief! :smile:


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## TuckersMom (Apr 27, 2011)

RaisingWolves said:


> This is how it is in my house. One can handle 3 boneless meals in a row, my senior boxer can only handle one boneless meal. I feed him one bone in meal and one big boneless meal. When I first started feeding PMR, I would spend a lot of time calculating the ounces, doing the math. It so much easier to look at the poop!


Another confirmation that I need to become a POOP expert, lol


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## TuckersMom (Apr 27, 2011)

sozzle said:


> Good to read this thread because I was periodically worrying about this aspect also. I try not to worry about it now ie my dog gets fed twice a day, one boney meal say a chicken frame and then the next one will be a meat/tripe one.


 I'm so glad others are benefiting from this as well :smile:


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