# 18% Protein



## goldpony (Apr 25, 2009)

Hello. Does anyone know of a quality kibble that has lower protein levels (20% - 18%)? I have an 8 1/2 month old Dobermann pup.


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## Unosmom (May 3, 2009)

any reason for feeding low protein?


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## sganow (Apr 16, 2009)

18% seems very low. Heck, I try to keep my dogs at around 26% or better. Is there a medical reason to feed such a low protein food?


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

There is never a time you want to feed that low amount of protein.


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## goldpony (Apr 25, 2009)

The breeder suggested a lower protein because he is growing so fast and is extremely accident prone. Also because large breed puppies can get Pano (Long Bone) and have other developmental issues if they grow too fast. I appreciate the advice! Thanks!


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## Unosmom (May 3, 2009)

even if you have a large breed pup, that protein level is way too low, unless the dog has some debilitating reason and cannot process meat, it should be at least 25%, if you do feed something thats 18% than I cant imagine it being a good quality food, since its probably predominantly made of grains.


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

goldpony said:


> The breeder suggested a lower protein because he is growing so fast and is extremely accident prone. Also because large breed puppies can get Pano (Long Bone) and have other developmental issues if they grow too fast. I appreciate the advice! Thanks!


18% is way too low. I would recommend AT LEAST 22% protein and 13% to 14% fat. I raised my Great Dane puppy on a prey model raw diet that is around 65% protein measured in dry weight. He is 4 1/2 years old now and had no growth problems.

ETA: Protein is the building block of muscle and you can do serious harm to your growing puppy by feeding a diet deficient in protein.


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## goldpony (Apr 25, 2009)

I've done more research thanks to your information. More protein, less carbs. Thank you so much!


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## sganow (Apr 16, 2009)

The thing you want to watch, especially in large breed puppies, is the calcium and phosphorus levels. You don't want those to be high for large breed puppies. Too high calcium and phosphorus levels will cause the fast growth growth issues you mentioned.


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## goldpony (Apr 25, 2009)

How about Orijen Large Breed Puppy?


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

goldpony said:


> How about Origen Large Breed Puppy?


Great pick, for a kibble.


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## Rubyroo (Jun 10, 2012)

What about the case of a portosystemic shunt? I was told to feed 18% or less protein......any suggestions for raw feeding?


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## bullyBug (May 31, 2012)

RawFedDogs said:


> I raised my Great Dane puppy on a prey model raw diet that is around 65% protein measured in dry weight. He is 4 1/2 years old now and had no growth problems.


How is 65% protein, measured in dry weight, possible?


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## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

bullyBug said:


> How is 65% protein, measured in dry weight, possible?


Because raw is just protein and fat, no carbohydrates (assuming we are talking about prey model raw, not BARF). So if you remove the water content from raw meat, depending on the meat source it's 50-75% protein, the rest fat by weight.


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## bullyBug (May 31, 2012)

Caty M said:


> Because raw is just protein and fat, no carbohydrates (assuming we are talking about prey model raw, not BARF). So if you remove the water content from raw meat, depending on the meat source it's 50-75% protein, the rest fat by weight.


It doesn't really work that way when you're making a comparison. You can look at the protein content on a dry matter basis (protein/dry matter x 100), or as fed. Either way results in 25% or less.


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## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

I think you can compare it, okay take EVO which is 44% protein, and say chicken, which is say 22% protein (I made that up, completely). On a DRY MATTER basis, EVO might be 46% protein, and raw is typically around 60% if you remove all the water.

I am really bad at putting my thoughts into words but I hope that made sense.. LOL :smile:


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## bullyBug (May 31, 2012)

Caty M said:


> I think you can compare it, okay take EVO which is 44% protein, and say chicken, which is say 22% protein (I made that up, completely). On a DRY MATTER basis, EVO might be 46% protein, and raw is typically around 60% if you remove all the water.
> 
> I am really bad at putting my thoughts into words but I hope that made sense.. LOL :smile:


I understand how you're thinking, but that's just not what "dry matter basis" means or how it's calculated. 

Equi-Analytical Laboratories - Profiling Feed for Better Nutrition

Dry Matter Basis... the Only Fair Way to Compare Dog Foods


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## PawsitiveArt (Feb 4, 2013)

I am currently searching for 18% protein as well. The only one I've found thus far is kibbles and bits, but who the heck wants to feed that junk?  I'm dealing with a 9 week old puppy who has HOD right now and have had several recommendations for 18% protein to speed up recovery for him. Once he's out of the woods he can go back to 23%. I did research on dog food a good bit in the past and found that higher protein foods kill the kidneys quicker. I believe it was referring to some of the 30% and higher foods though.. This didn't make any sense to me because raw diet has a very high protein percentage. Anywho.. just wanted to throw my two cents in. There are special cases where lower protein is necessary for a limited time.


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## woganvonderweidenstrasse (Nov 22, 2012)

RawFedDogs said:


> 18% is way too low. I would recommend AT LEAST 22% protein and 13% to 14% fat. I raised my Great Dane puppy on a prey model raw diet that is around 65% protein measured in dry weight. He is 4 1/2 years old now and had no growth problems.
> 
> ETA: Protein is the building block of muscle and you can do serious harm to your growing puppy by feeding a diet deficient in protein.


Pano is not diet related. My pup is raw fed and currently has Pano. It is common in pups that are typically to heavy and growing to fast, but no proof that diet can cause or prevent it. The best you can do is keep him thin to minimize stress on joints.

http://leerburg.com/pano.htm


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## Losech (Jul 10, 2012)

I compare grams of protein per serving/meal as well as percentages. One cup of EVO has 44 grams of protein (42% protein 22% fat 11%carbs per GA, 37% protein 47% fat 17% carbs per calorie weighted basis, 47% protein 24% fat 21% carbs per DM). My average homemade raw meal (turkey neck, beef meat, egg, liver, about 260 grams of food total) has 47 grams of protein. Anywho, the protein and fat content of that particular meal is 55% protein and 45% fat on a calorie weighted basis. I have no idea what the dry matter is nor do I give a crap. So saying that raw foods are not high protein is not true.

Moving on...


PawsitiveArt said:


> I am currently searching for 18% protein as well. The only one I've found thus far is kibbles and bits, but who the heck wants to feed that junk?  I'm dealing with a 9 week old puppy who has HOD right now and have had several recommendations for 18% protein to speed up recovery for him.


Here's a couple low-protein foods that aren't ubercrap that I found with a quick search. Wasn't hard to do. I personally wouldn't feed any of them, but that's just me.

Solid Gold Health Products for Pets - Products
Blue Buffalo - Senior Dogs All Natural Dog Food
Wellness® Complete Health® Super5Mix® Healthy Weight
Wellness® Complete Health® Super5Mix® Just for Seniors
Lamb and Rice Lite Dry Dog Food - Diamond Pet Foods
Lamb Meal and Rice - Senior - Life Stages - Nature's Recipe®
Reduced Calorie Dry Dog - Natural Balance Pet Foods


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## Sapphire-Light (Aug 8, 2010)

Wow look at the date of the original first post in this thread O-o


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## PawsitiveArt (Feb 4, 2013)

Diet, what kibble to feed or to feed raw.. all of this is very sensitive subjects and any group that I've been in and witness the discussion it usually got pretty heated. Everyone has their own opinions of protein, fat and what should be in their dogs diet. I have witnessed a woman pull several great danes between 10 weeks to 9 months out of HOD with her method I am using now. So I will be feeding a 17% food I found yesterday along with her honey/vinegar tonic for 2-3 months and then he will return slowly to his regular diet. It MAY affect his muscle mass and it may not. But there is no way he can function as an adult with his foot and joint the way it is now. So using this method to straighten out his leg is crucial. There are different levels of severity with HOD. My pup was caught very early and with this diet and method we're using he has a very good prognosis and I am told his leg should look good as new within 2-3 weeks tops. To each their own.. we have to be our dogs advocates.. they can't do everything themselves.


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