# New reason not to feed raw. . .



## Roo (Oct 17, 2010)

I thought I had heard just about every argument/reason not to feed raw, many that were repeats, but this one, was a new one for me.

_"Let’s say for a moment that whole, minimally processed foods are without a doubt the best way to feed any living thing, be it man, beast, or otherwise. Reality is this: The human population is increasing. Rapidly. The world dog and cat population is also increasing. And we are living in a world with dwindling natural resources. We are going to run out of food to feed ourselves, let alone our pets. If we have the capability of offering optimal nutrition to our pets through alternative nutrient sources, then I think it’s our responsibility to do so. Not to compromise quality in the favor of higher profits, and not to provide less bioavailable nutrition. To stop taking food off of the plates of people, when we have the ability to provide EQUIVALENT nutrition from alternate sources. North America is first world, we are blissfully ignorant about this issue, but do we really want to wait until there’s no food left to start looking for a solution?"_

Personally I don't think we've come up with any alternate nutrient sources equivalent to minimally processed whole foods as of yet.


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## NewYorkDogue (Sep 27, 2011)

Roo said:


> I thought I had heard just about every argument/reason not to feed raw, many that were repeats, but this one, was a new one for me.
> 
> _"Let’s say for a moment that whole, minimally processed foods are without a doubt the best way to feed any living thing, be it man, beast, or otherwise. Reality is this: The human population is increasing. Rapidly. The world dog and cat population is also increasing. And we are living in a world with dwindling natural resources. We are going to run out of food to feed ourselves, let alone our pets. If we have the capability of offering optimal nutrition to our pets through alternative nutrient sources, then I think it’s our responsibility to do so. Not to compromise quality in the favor of higher profits, and not to provide less bioavailable nutrition. To stop taking food off of the plates of people, when we have the ability to provide EQUIVALENT nutrition from alternate sources. North America is first world, we are blissfully ignorant about this issue, but do we really want to wait until there’s no food left to start looking for a solution?"_
> 
> Personally I don't think we've come up with any alternate nutrient sources equivalent to minimally processed whole foods as of yet.


The whole argument is a "paper tiger". Harmless, and silly. The person writing the paragraph starts with, "Let's say for a moment...". It's an abstract idea. The United States, for example, is bloated with excess food...Why follow an argument that is built on air?

Anywhoo. Still feeding raw here.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Well, I can't say I disagree with them. But dry dog food was at one time minimally real food, albeit the trashiest parts no humans would eat.

And I think it is true that we could not sustain the world's population on naturally grown food. Chicken, for instance. There's just not enough free range to meet the demand.

We could easily solve the "too many pets" problem by not buying from puppy mills and backyard breeders. But we don't.

Where did that quote come from?


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

NewYorkDogue said:


> The United States, for example, is bloated with excess food...Why follow an argument that is built on air?


We could feed all the homeless and most of the working poor with what restaurants throw out every day, I bet.


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## NewYorkDogue (Sep 27, 2011)

xellil said:


> We could feed all the homeless and most of the working poor with what restaurants throw out every day, I bet.


Yes. I was going to bring that up. Ugh. So sad, this "throw-away' mentality. For food, for dogs, for electronic gadgets... for just "stuff." 

We are spoiled, here, in this USA. But processing foods... hmmm. I don't think that's the answer... I believe the mentality has to shift before the paradigm does.


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## Roo (Oct 17, 2010)

Xellil the quote came from another forum.


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## 7766 (Sep 20, 2011)

That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard and I actually feed kibble. (Sorry for invading the raw side, but I was curious)


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## Sheltielover25 (Jan 18, 2011)

I think one solution is for people to start growing their own food more and raising animals if you have room. You can grow inside in containers, so a yard isn't an excuse to veggies/fruits.


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## Roo (Oct 17, 2010)

Nlboz, the quote referred to fresh food, which is why I posted it in the raw section, but all (civil/respectful) comments and thoughts from any members on this board are welcome on this. :smile:


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## xchairity_casex (Oct 8, 2011)

if we all quit feeding raw what would happen to all that meat thats going to be tossed out? well jsut that its going to be thrown away
meat is going to be used for human consumption nothing you can tell americans is going to cause them to start eating the throw away parts of animals like brain,hearts,eye balls, heads,ect
obviously SOME amercians are willing to eat those parts but not alot so most of it gets thrown away to rott so why not feed it to our pets? why let it go to waste? we can worry about feeding processed foods when the planet is in dier situations untill then why not let us few feew our dogs the best we can provdie?


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

xchairity_casex said:


> if we all quit feeding raw what would happen to all that meat thats going to be tossed out? well jsut that its going to be thrown away
> meat is going to be used for human consumption nothing you can tell americans is going to cause them to start eating the throw away parts of animals like brain,hearts,eye balls, heads,ect
> obviously SOME amercians are willing to eat those parts but not alot so most of it gets thrown away to rott so why not feed it to our pets? why let it go to waste? we can worry about feeding processed foods when the planet is in dier situations untill then why not let us few feew our dogs the best we can provdie?


I would be totally willing to forego all the meat that people eat, and feed my dogs all the parts they don't. it's better for them anyway - chicken quarters aren't necessary for a healthy diet, and neither are pork ribs although they are convenient.


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## CoverTune (Dec 20, 2011)

nlboz said:


> (Sorry for invading the raw side, but I was curious)


No apology needed, you're more than welcome on "the raw side" lol. 

And yes, that original quote is ridiculous.


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## Gally (Jan 28, 2012)

There is more than enough food to feed the entire population of the world properly, but the money to buy it and the means to produce it and transport it is very unequally distributed across the globe. 

The Myth - Scarcity. The Reality - There is enough food
http://www.aic.ca/sustainable/pdf/Food_Scarcity_A_Myth.pdf


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## Roo (Oct 17, 2010)

Living in the Midwest, I do know that urban development and building has taken away some of our farmland, I don't know if it's enough to start causing a real impact yet though. I do agree that we waste a lot of food in the US unfortunately.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

Sheltielover25 said:


> I think one solution is for people to start growing their own food more and raising animals if you have room. You can grow inside in containers, so a yard isn't an excuse to veggies/fruits.


i think that's not always desirable. i have no problem supporting farmers and agriculture and proteins that i buy.

i don't want to grow my own.

and i need no excuse.

we are not in the victory garden years of the depression.

we are in the over chemicalised years of the millenium.

there is every reason for my efforts to be directed toward improving the food we grow as a nation and as a global enterprise....

but there is no reason whatsoever for me to grow my own. 

the usa has enough resources to feed the world several times over.


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

The world is never going to run out of meat! LOL


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## xchairity_casex (Oct 8, 2011)

i personally feel that we could do alot of good to our nation and enviorment by looking for other sorces of protien. americans main sorces of protien are poultry,fish,beef,and pork.
we rarely eat much else for protiens when we could be getting so much more protien eating insects,rabbit,venison,snakes,turtle,ect yes some people who hunt eat other wild sorces but not many and hardly ANYONE is willing ot eat insects. i would eat insects if they were cooked properly they are actually VERY VERY healthy for you and you could easily and not so cruely factory farm them you could farm millions of cockaroaches or ants or spiders to eat


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## 7766 (Sep 20, 2011)

Roo said:


> Nlboz, the quote referred to fresh food, which is why I posted it in the raw section, but all (civil/respectful) comments and thoughts from any members on this board are welcome on this. :smile:



Thanks, and just for the record I am not agaisnt feeding raw, nor have I and don't plan to criticize it or say it's wrong. I am just not at the point where I am ready and willing to do it. But I am interested so I read threads and articles about it.


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## xchairity_casex (Oct 8, 2011)

also the thing about farming is soo many farmers are going bankrupt becuase of all the laws on farmers nowdays they are jsut not able to afford it if they grow decent sized crops its very very sad they are making it wicked hard for farmers to even farm!


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## Roo (Oct 17, 2010)

> Thanks, and just for the record I am not against feeding raw, nor have I and don't plan to criticize it or say it's wrong. I am just not at the point where I am ready and willing to do it. But I am interested so I read threads and articles about it.


I think I read almost every thread in the raw section before I started feeding raw, it was one of my best resources as newbie, because I had read about others issues, experiences, etc. so I wasn't so freaked out with minor issues that can happen during transition etc.:smile:


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## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

xchairity_casex said:


> i personally feel that we could do alot of good to our nation and enviorment by looking for other sorces of protien. americans main sorces of protien are poultry,fish,beef,and pork.
> we rarely eat much else for protiens when we could be getting so much more protien eating insects,rabbit,venison,snakes,turtle,ect yes some people who hunt eat other wild sorces but not many and hardly ANYONE is willing ot eat insects. i would eat insects if they were cooked properly they are actually VERY VERY healthy for you and you could easily and not so cruely factory farm them you could farm millions of cockaroaches or ants or spiders to eat


Nope. NOPE! Not me! I can't even get close enough to an insect to kill it let alone put it in my mouth and eat it. *shudder* However, rabbits, turtle, and snakes, I could eat. I already love venison. I would love to be able to eat more wild game. I wish I could afford to go hunting. I almost had my hunting license for California before moving to Washington and I would get it here but, as it is, we just don't have the money to go hunting. One day... One day...

I do long for the day we can bring home our own meat.



The comment that stuck out to me was the "stop taking food off of peoples plates"... The majority of what I have in my freezer is stuff that was leftover AFTER the meat desired by humans was taken from the animal. We have spine sections surrounded in meat as well as other big hunks of bone that nothing but a dog or ferret would be able to get all of the meat off of. I'm pretty sure I didn't prevent any human from eating those undesirable pieces.



nlboz said:


> Thanks, and just for the record I am not agaisnt feeding raw, nor have I and don't plan to criticize it or say it's wrong. I am just not at the point where I am ready and willing to do it. But I am interested so I read threads and articles about it.


It took me a long time to take the plunge too. I lurked on here and other sites for a while but what really made me decide to do it was the raw feeding picture thread. The sticky at the top of the raw section. Reading about it and seeing it happen are two totally different things. Skim through it if you haven't already. Even if it doesn't convince you it is still fun and fascinating to see all of the different dogs eating their raw meals!


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

Dude and Bucks Mamma said:


> Nope. NOPE! Not me! I can't even get close enough to an insect to kill it let alone put it in my mouth and eat it. *shudder* However, rabbits, turtle, and snakes, I could eat. I already love venison. I would love to be able to eat more wild game. I wish I could afford to go hunting. I almost had my hunting license for California before moving to Washington and I would get it here but, as it is, we just don't have the money to go hunting. One day... One day...
> 
> I do long for the day we can bring home our own meat.
> 
> ...




This stuck out the most for me as well. I have a freezer full of OLD, freezer burned meat that is not going to taste good to a human. We are RECYCLING!. Instead of this stuff going to landfills, it goes into a dogs tummy and comes out as fertilizer...kind of...

I could totally eat bugs and whatever else. I always try everything twice :smile:


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## Sheltielover25 (Jan 18, 2011)

magicre said:


> i think that's not always desirable. i have no problem supporting farmers and agriculture and proteins that i buy.
> 
> i don't want to grow my own.
> 
> ...


Well, growing your own food helps cut down on the pollution b/c the food isn't traveling all over the country therefor less semi trucks. There are many other benefits, too. I mean how much sense does it make to buy an apple from California when I'm in AR?


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## 7766 (Sep 20, 2011)

xchairity_casex said:


> also the thing about farming is soo many farmers are going bankrupt becuase of all the laws on farmers nowdays they are jsut not able to afford it if they grow decent sized crops its very very sad they are making it wicked hard for farmers to even farm!


On my way home I was listening to the radio and a news report came on about the governement strting programs to teach people how to farm.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

Sheltielover25 said:


> Well, growing your own food helps cut down on the pollution b/c the food isn't traveling all over the country therefor less semi trucks. There are many other benefits, too. I mean how much sense does it make to buy an apple from California when I'm in AR?


and not having cows cuts down on the methane pollution...yet i eat meat.

it makes perfect sense for those who want to garden and farm to follow their dreams...

it also makes perfect sense that, for every carrot grown, there is someone to buy that carrot to keep the farmers in business.

i am a consumer of products.

i am not a grower. 

one must have both for an economy to flourish.

'course, it would be nice if we had food that isn't toxic. 

and there is no guarantee that the land you're growing your tomatoes on is not toxic.

if you're using plastic containers to grow stuff in, you're also taking the risk of plastic crap leeching into your veggies.

there is no perfect way of doing things...

and i've had my own orchards and gardens. 

i don't want them. many don't want them. 

nor should words such as 'make sense' or 'no excuse' used just because i prefer and others prefer or need to be a consumer, rather than the grower.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

and to the person who said we are taking the food off tables in order to feed our dogs?

really?

we keep farmers in business by buying the stuff they can't sell to humans.

and so what?

if food isn't getting to ethiopia, it's because of the rebels and the politics of the country. certainly, it's not for lack of us trying to feed the world.

and, please, don't anyone get upset because i used ethiopia as an example.....it's just an example.


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## xchairity_casex (Oct 8, 2011)

personally i would love to own a farm and have chickens,cows,sheep,pigs,ducks ,ect i would LOVE to have a garden and grow lots of fruits and vegtables
but we rent this house,we are in city limits and we have a tiny ass yard we couldnt have a garden unless we expected cesar to crap out in the road :/

and the goverment likes to make people THINK they are supporting farmers when really they are not and pulling as many strings to get as many farms closed as they can.
i used to be a member of backyardchickens forum you would be amazed at the crap farmers get fined and shut down for have police officers come in there shutting them down.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

nlboz said:


> On my way home I was listening to the radio and a news report came on about the governement strting programs to teach people how to farm.


That's a scary thought. Puppy mill farming started in the depression when the government told people who could not grow crops they could make crops out of dogs.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

xchairity_casex said:


> personally i would love to own a farm and have chickens,cows,sheep,pigs,ducks ,ect i would LOVE to have a garden and grow lots of fruits and vegtables
> but we rent this house,we are in city limits and we have a tiny ass yard we couldnt have a garden unless we expected cesar to crap out in the road :/
> 
> and the goverment likes to make people THINK they are supporting farmers when really they are not and pulling as many strings to get as many farms closed as they can.
> i used to be a member of backyardchickens forum you would be amazed at the crap farmers get fined and shut down for have police officers come in there shutting them down.


i've eaten bugs.....in very fine restaurants and probably some dives. they're yummy. 

chocolate covered ants....num.

according to sheltielover, no land, no zoning...means you could use containers to grow your stuff.


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## xchairity_casex (Oct 8, 2011)

magicre said:


> i've eaten bugs.....in very fine restaurants and probably some dives. they're yummy.
> 
> chocolate covered ants....num.
> 
> according to sheltielover, no land, no zoning...means you could use containers to grow your stuff.


sure theres some plants you can grow in your house some people grow tomatos and strawberries in there house i cant though cause i have cats!
all of my windows are filled with plants and even THOSE are being eaten i try growing that cat grass for my cats but they eat all that in like a day and THEN go for my plants anyways...


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## ciaBrysh (Dec 16, 2011)

Stop taking food off of people's plates? The US alone almost definitely has enough food to end world hunger by ITSELF ha ha


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## Neeko (Aug 11, 2010)

I don't personally know anyone who has a desire to eat turkey necks, pork heart, or beef trachea. 

I work with a lovely lady from the Phillipines who makes a delicious oxtail dish, and pressure cooks beef tongue until it is tender and divine.


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

I have a bunch of lamb lung and turkey heart if someone really needs it. Clean out of testicles though. All someone needs to do is ask.


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## wolfsnaps88 (Jan 2, 2012)

I say we start sterilizing people. There are too many people. Lets sterilize the stupid ones. Hell, I will get in line first. Cutting down on our population will help create more room for farmland and wild land. Stop stupid people from breeding and we no longer have or need congress. 


Yup. I think my plan will solve a lot of problems.


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## xchairity_casex (Oct 8, 2011)

wolfsnaps88 said:


> I say we start sterilizing people. There are too many people. Lets sterilize the stupid ones. Hell, I will get in line first. Cutting down on our population will help create more room for farmland and wild land. Stop stupid people from breeding and we no longer have or need congress.
> 
> 
> Yup. I think my plan will solve a lot of problems.


i personally have to agree sometimes when im sitting their reading craigslist or on facebook and hear stupid people talking i think to myself 
"why are we not as cautious about the people who breed as we are about dogs who we show and breed?"


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## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

magicre said:


> i've eaten bugs.....in very fine restaurants and probably some dives. they're yummy.
> 
> chocolate covered ants....num.
> 
> according to sheltielover, no land, no zoning...means you could use containers to grow your stuff.


Oh, chocolate covered ants, I could do. I used to eat ants as a kid along with my other ant eating friends. Who knows what we ingested that was ON the ants. Hahaha. I couldn't do the bigger bugs that have... substance to them.



wolfsnaps88 said:


> I say we start sterilizing people. There are too many people. Lets sterilize the stupid ones. Hell, I will get in line first. Cutting down on our population will help create more room for farmland and wild land. Stop stupid people from breeding and we no longer have or need congress.
> 
> 
> Yup. I think my plan will solve a lot of problems.


I wouldn't call Nick and I "stupid" but we don't plan on having kids. We don't want them. We aren't the type to devote 18-25 years of our lives raising miniature people. So no worries about more coming from us! If only we could sterilize people. I know it sounds elitist and terrible but we all know people who should NOT be breeding. Oh well... All we can do is keep educating and hoping that everyone we come across leaves with at least one new thing to think about.


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## bridget246 (Oct 26, 2011)

I'm confused. We aren't suppose to give our dogs the best diet possible because that is reserved for humans? It seems to be trying to point out that kibble is just as good as raw. If that is the case show me a kibble that has _all _the benefits of a raw diet for a comparable price and I will consider making the switch.


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## Makovach (Jan 24, 2012)

wolfsnaps88 said:


> I say we start sterilizing people. There are too many people. Lets sterilize the stupid ones. Hell, I will get in line first. Cutting down on our population will help create more room for farmland and wild land. Stop stupid people from breeding and we no longer have or need congress.
> 
> 
> Yup. I think my plan will solve a lot of problems.


I LIKE THE WAY YOU THINK! I just said in another post about how people should have to be evaluated before reproducing. lol and if they are not up to standards (of parenting, like bad parents or people who just keep having kids and shipping them out to be adopted and having more and more and more) they should be fixed!

But haven't you ever tried bull penis? So tender! And Chicken backs? They are so.... crunchy with all those bones. Yeah, because millions of Americans would be in line waiting. That statement was just ridiculous. Sounds like someone needs to rethink life and the dos and don'ts. And maybe think before they speak, to keep from coming across as.... well. we'll just leave it as that.... 

I would NEVER turn away from raw. I don't care if I did have to eat rats and cockroaches so my dogs could eat their meat!. We have a ten gallon tank of hissing cockroaches at work. They breed like mad crazy. Started out with three, one month later there is hundreds. Not to mention they are next to impossible to kill. Easy farming. Easy protein.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

I have long thought everyone should be sterilized at birth and the procedure not be reversed until they can prove they are emotionally and financially capable of taking care of a child. 

However, people have pointed out to me that is Hitler-ish.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Anyone ever see "Idiocracy"? Its a fantastic movie (conceptually....horrible acting and effects so you have to look past all that LOL) about how the world is getting more and more stupid. Great flick....I highly recommend watching it several times to pick up on all the innuendos! 

Idiocracy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Or any one watch food network? They did a show on how much food waste there is in the US....some of the top chefs made a gourmet meal out of food waste for 100 people. Very eye opening. So the thought that there will be a meat shortage due to raw feeders is just absurd. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azpDKUU0TZE


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## xchairity_casex (Oct 8, 2011)

DaneMama said:


> Anyone ever see "Idiocracy"? Its a fantastic movie (conceptually....horrible acting and effects so you have to look past all that LOL) about how the world is getting more and more stupid. Great flick....I highly recommend watching it several times to pick up on all the innuendos!
> 
> Idiocracy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> ...


 i have heard of that movie idiocrocy but have never seen it available to rent anywhere. perhapes ill look for it on amazon.
and i have to say it does seem like people are getting stupider and stupider as far as commen sense goes. i can see in 50 years from now people having nothing not careing about anything people are so tied up in sociel media,there cell phones,ect that they dont give a crap about anything else.
i sat down a few times to have a long thought about my own sister she has no passion for anything! all she wants to do like alot of people now days is jsut sit on ehr butt and text,text,text alll day long she doesnt want a job,she doesnt want a carreer,she doesnt want a family she just wants to chat,and talk to freinds and flirt with guys and go out with freinds todance half naked in a night club.
what happend to all those women fighting for there own human rights? wanting to be allowed to go out and go to collage,have a career? now days girls are like "omg i wanna be a rock star" or "i wanna be on tv" you dont hear kids now days saying "i wanna be a doctor" or "i wanna be a police officer"


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## xchairity_casex (Oct 8, 2011)

wow im watching this food network challange thats insane! so much of this food is perfectly fine!!
blows my mind
when you think of throw away food you think moldy,slimy,stinkey rotten bad food not this stuff though i should know better
my mom used to work at the local bakery where we lived every morning she would bring home trash bags FULL of day olds or things that were not frosted right like if someone messed up and frosted a cake with white iceing instead of choclate it got tossed after like 2 weeks we couldnt stand sweets anymore doughnuts,cakes,pies,cookies nothing was stale or old tasteing.

and also i must admit when i get cesar meats from the grocery store the stuff they toss out all the meat is still semi frozen they toss out packages of chicken that jsut has a slight tear in the package still smells and looks good sometimes ive been tempted to take it for myself to cook up cause i get really good cuts of beeg too like steaks and even a tender loin once they tossed out the tenderloin from waht i could tell due to the seams of the plastic had split open.


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## wolfsnaps88 (Jan 2, 2012)

DaneMama said:


> Anyone ever see "Idiocracy"? Its a fantastic movie (conceptually....horrible acting and effects so you have to look past all that LOL) about how the world is getting more and more stupid. Great flick....I highly recommend watching it several times to pick up on all the innuendos!
> 
> Idiocracy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> ...


Ha. I always recommend this movie on the concept alone as well. There is a part of the movie only a minute long that gives you an idea of what we mean when we talk about this movie if you have not seen it. Funny, sad, ...true!

Idiocracy - YouTube

Second part 
Idiocracy - YouTube



And here is a sad example of American kids making bad nutrition choices because they are brain washed. They are literally watching this nastyness unfold. Will they eat it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9B7im8aQjo&feature=related


Enjoy~!


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## xchairity_casex (Oct 8, 2011)

wolfsnaps88 said:


> Ha. I always recommend this movie on the concept alone as well. There is a part of the movie only a minute long that gives you an idea of what we mean when we talk about this movie if you have not seen it. Funny, sad, ...true!
> 
> Idiocracy - YouTube
> 
> ...


omg! that was too funny "how many of you would still eat this?"
they all raise there hands! HAHAHAHAHAA


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

i've watched these shows.....interestingly, there was an interview with michael symon, one of the generational chefs who is well known and believes in 'nose to tail' cooking....

and that show with jamie....my naked chef. loved his show...and his new one now....he probably went back to england scratching his head. 'course, england has similar problems.....

he said that the generation of chefs now are doing it, but the new generation of chefs coming up will believe in it.

there was a time when not one item of anything was ever wasted...

chicken backs? make the best broth and stock

just look at asian food. we shop at our korean grocer to get the foods that many of us won't even consider eating; yet, they are eaten all over the world.

rocky mountain oysters? nummy....haven't yet had bull penis, but if served to me, i would eat it.

remember iron chef from japan? some of the foods they cooked....well, i wanted to be there...but i cannot imagine amurricans eating it.

we did. my grandmother and mother used every part of the animal....

that food network show was just an example of the waste in this country....

having said that, with chickens bred for large boobs....so people could eat the least nutritious part of the chicken...that's fine with me.

we have plenty of people who will feed what others won't eat, like liz' lung.....to their dogs....that way, our dogs are actually helping the economy, supporting the environment and generally being heroes.

i found it very sad that people won't eat this or that. there are foods that are so delicious and good for you but we've sterilised the crap out of our taste buds.


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