# At a Loss- Vet Today at Five. (kinda long)



## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

Okay, so I am at my wits end with Grissom and his diarrhea. I'm looking for any and all suggestions. 
I got Grissom New Years Eve at 8 weeks old. Other than an umbilical hernia, he was tip-top shape, perfectly healthy. His breeder had him on Pedigree, so I made the switch to Wellness Just for Puppy immediately. Switch went flawless, no loose stools. He was on Wellness until February, when I started ordering my food from my current job. I put him on Innova Puppy because I get it wholesale, and we dont carry Wellness. He was getting 50% Innova, 50% wild game meat. Again, transition went flawless. No loose stool. 
He was always solid, and then around August he developed a poop eating habit, which is a whole other topic that has be absolutely at my wits end. Around this time, he developed occasional diarrhea, that he ONLY got after eating the poop, so I want overly concerned.
As time went on, it just got worse and worse. I put him on raw, but that only lasted for two weeks before I was kicked out of the freezer by my grandparents. I have no choice in my living situation to feed kibble. I fully intend to return to raw in January when I move out. As for now, this is not an option. 
After going off of the short bout of raw, I put him on Evo Red Meat. He had constant black diarrhea. I was not over feeding, he was only getting 1/3 cup twice a day, which is slightly less than the Innova I was feeding. He was losing weight fast, so I fed a little more. The more I fed, the worse his stools got, and he kept losing weight. At this point I had a fecal sample run for parasites. Clear. 
I fasted him for a day, did rice for a day (yeah, I know, ZERO nutritional value, but it pushed everything through his digestive tract) and put him on California Natural Herring and Sweet Potato. Because his stools were already so terrible, and he was a mess already, I transitioned him very quickly, over only about 7-10 days time. 
He was 100% solid for about 5 days, even with the occasional poop eating, and I really thought we had figured it out. Wrong. Out of nowhere the diarrhea came back with a vengence. I was not enjoying the ocean breath from the Herring food, and bought him Cali Nat Lamb and Rice after about a month. Oddly, after yet another switch, he was solid for about 4 days, and then back to diarrhea. I tried giving him a little yogurt for the probiotics with his PM feeding, and about a week ago, started him on a pretty strong probiotic from Animal Naturals. After buying Restore ProBiotic from Animal Naturals, he again was solid for a few days- then back to runny pudding poo. 
This is Grissom's entire nutritional history. I do not do treats. I do RMBs as meal replacements on Sunday to help keep their teeth clean without issues. 
I'm at a loss. It seems like every time I change something- he does a little better, then back to total diarrhea, usually bloody. Even on good days, his first poo in the morning will be solid, and they get gradually softer as the day goes on. he used to poo about three times a day (and this was on 3 meals a day as a puppy) and now he eats twice a day and poos probably about 6 or 7 times a day. He can not hold it through the night, he is having to say outside because they are already not welcome where I am living- my grandparents are tolerating it because they know I am moving in three months. However, diarrhea in the house is going to get him a one way ticket out of there. It's snowing at night, and although he has a insulated dog house that I built with my grandpa, I hate that he's out there. It's too cold. 
I'm taking him back to the vet at 5pm today, and I guess having all the tests run again even though they came back clear last time. I'm pretty sure he'll recommend Science Diet and antibiotics, which goes against everything I know... but I need a solution, and I need it fast. 
Champ, who is ALWAYS solid. ALWAYS. And has been solid throughout this whole two month ordeal, has total water poo today. The kind that splashes when it hits the ground. I'm on a very tight budget until the end of December, and I can't really afford to be running both of them to the vet all the time, nor can I afford to move out of where I'm at because my grandparents are on the verge of kicking the dogs out. I can NOT lose my boys, but with them alreayd not liking dogs, and now the dogs having diarrhea all over the place, I'm on a thin line. 

ANY suggestions welcome. I will try just about anything at this point. I wish I could just put them on raw, I wish the guidelines where I'm living weren't so incredibly stupid. Unfortunate circumstances put me there, and I can't leave yet.


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## chowder (Sep 7, 2008)

I feel so sorry for you and the baby.....I've been thru that with Chelsy having horrible bloody diarhea and everyone in the house getting mad at her when she can't really help it. 

With Chelsy it took me years to find out what was causing her the bad colitis. We finally decided it was any food with olive oil, salmon oil, or salmon. If she gets any food with those things in it, she will get terribly sick. It sounds like Grissom has developed colitis and certain things set it off. It may take going thru all the foods he has eaten and comparing their ingredients to see if there is a common thing in any of them. He might be reacting to an ingredient after a few days when it builds up in his system. When you do a food allergy test on dogs they say it can take 3 months to get all the old food out of their system so I imagine it can take a few days for them to react to enough stimulus.

Chelsy can not eat any of the foods Rocky does ...Orijen and Merrick almost killed her. She can eat wellness canned venison, Innova Senior Plus dry, and Natural Recipe Venison (Not the best food but she actually does well on it.) I have given her California Natural canned and she does okay but only the chicken version. 

Don't know if that will help you at all. When she has a bad bout I give her immodium. I never give her the Flagyl the vets want to use because I had a dog react really badly to it and die. Immodium and pure Wellness canned usually will get her thru a bout. 

Hope the vet is able to help you a little more.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

It might be a pancreatic deficiency...have you done bloodwork on him recently?

EVO can be way too rich for some dogs, mine did not do all that well on it and had regular diarrhea.


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

danemama08 said:


> It might be a pancreatic deficiency...have you done bloodwork on him recently?


I also thought of pancreas and liver as I was reading your post.


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

danemama08 said:


> It might be a pancreatic deficiency...have you done bloodwork on him recently?
> 
> EVO can be way too rich for some dogs, mine did not do all that well on it and had regular diarrhea.


In August I had full blood profile, urinalysis, and had a fecal run for parasites. Spent a couple hundred dollars to find out that on paper he's fine. 
I figured the EVO was just too rich, which is why I took him off of it and put him on Cali Natural to help him settle. I'm not a huge fan of Cali Nat for extended periods of time, but it's pretty gentile on the tummy, and I felt that's what he needed. I have enough California Natural Lamb and Rice to get me through December. 


Chowder- thanks for the tips on what helped your baby. I've not been as concerned as maybe what I should be, because other than the poo, he acts and appears entirely healthy. Energy level through the roof, keeps himself hydrated, healthy appetite, bright, clear eyes. Normal gums. Silky healthy coat. He is the picture perfect little boy, until he has a bowel movement. Then it's like all hell has broken loose. 


I guess I'll know more after the vet tonight. Hopefully. That's what I thought last time. I'm having them BOTH tested for all parasites, having bloodwork done as well as urinalysis. Hopefully something will show up somewhere. I'm terrified that my grandparents, who already hate dogs and think I waste too much time and money on mine, are going to kick the dogs out. Moving back in with family has stripped me of my independence, and I am afraid my poor boys will get the worst of it. :frown: I feel like I've failed them. I know Grissom is totally potty trained. He can't help it. I tried to explain this to my grandpa. "When YOU have diarreah, how much warning do you get?!" but it's no use. He doesn't get it. He's tired of the poo. I am too, but I understand it's not his fault. I let him out every hour, sometimes more, and there's still accidents. he's officially banished from the house.:frown:


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## BabyHusky (Jul 21, 2008)

ur poor pup....:frown:

good luck at the vet tonight! let us know how it goes. me and my furkids are praying for you guys.


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

RawFedDogs said:


> I also thought of pancreas and liver as I was reading your post.


I had bloodwork done in August, and will have it again today. I will mention this specificly to the vet, hopefully some kind of solution can be made. 
I don't know a whole lot about pancreas and liver issues. More familur with kidney. 
Would it be typical over this length of time for him to be otherwise in perfect condition? Not that he IS in perfect condition, I know there's a big problem here. But as far as energy level, eyes, gums, alertness, hydration, coat and skin health, etc. all perfect.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

CorgiPaws said:


> I had bloodwork done in August, and will have it again today. I will mention this specificly to the vet, hopefully some kind of solution can be made.
> I don't know a whole lot about pancreas and liver issues. More familur with kidney.
> Would it be typical over this length of time for him to be otherwise in perfect condition? Not that he IS in perfect condition, I know there's a big problem here. But as far as energy level, eyes, gums, alertness, hydration, coat and skin health, etc. all perfect.


Ask your vet to something called *Tylan Powder*. Its a powdered, low dose antibiotic that you sprinkle on Grissom's food. We have had several dogs come into work that have serious, chronic diarrhea problems and get better when using this. Its something that you give to with every meal to help with colitis (which it sounds like that is really the problem if you have done bloodwork that has come back clean). Eventually when you get it under control, you can start to back down the dose and hopefully get rid of the dependency, but it sounds like he will have lifelong problems with diarrhea. He just has a REALLY sensitive system and there is not a whole lot you can do about it. Hopefully this helps.


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## pokey (Oct 5, 2009)

Tylan Powder has been a life saver for my dog with colitis. She will have a bout and after a few doses of Tylan, she is good again. If I let the diarrhea go too long trying to let it clear on its own, she needs a longer course of the Tylan. Knock on wood, she hasn't had a flair up in almost 6 months!!

If you google colitis in canines you will find a good amount of information. Ask you vet about it while there today. You may want to try a few weeks of the bland diet or the Hill's RX food from the vet to give your dogs gut time to heal. Yes, I hate the vet's food, but for short term it is okay to use, especially if you don't want to deal with cooking for him. 

As far as sprinking Tylan on the food, it is my understanding it has a very bitter taste. My dog gets it sprinkles in apple sauce between meals.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

I haven't heard specifically if its super bitter, but must antibiotics are...so its probably helpful to mix it with something super tasty...


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## rannmiller (Jun 27, 2008)

I know it's weird, but I knew a lady who had a malamute puppy who had chronic diarrhea for the first ten months of his life and she had tried several natural dog foods. Finally she gave Blue Buffalo lamb and rice formula a try and combined it Solid Gold D-zymes and she said his diarrhea stopped almost instantly. 

Good luck with Grissom, it's getting cold here at night :frown:


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

Okay, just got back from the vet. I'm really annoyed. 
She ran the fecal sample, and as I was afraid, it came back entirely normal. She said there were a few spores in it, nothing that should raise concern, especially for such an ongoing problem. 
He also had little a little tiny sore by his mouth that showed up about three days ago. I didn't think anything of it because he's always getting little scrapes and scratches at daycare. It's what dogs do. 
Well, she wanted to take a skin scraping, so I did that. It came back as a type of mite, she said not not really contagious at all, it's moreso a sign of an immune Deficiency which means digestive issues make a whole lot more sense. 
She did exactly what I thought she would and prescribed Metronidazole (antibiotic used to treat IBD and colitis) twice a day for ten days. She also told me to stop my probiotic immediately. 
I don't know how I feel about this. Grissom has never been on any kind of antibiotic before. In fact, all he's ever had as far as medicine is one pain killer after getting neutered, but he always acted totally fine so I did not continue with the three days worth they sent home. I've heard the horror stories of antibiotics, and the damage they can do. I'm torn on if I should give them to him or not. 
She did not want to do bloodwork this time. She said if no improvement by friday, then we'll talk about more tests. 
I asked about the Powder, she didn't know much about it, and felt that the antibiotics were the best route. 
There is not a holistic vet near here, and since I don't go to the vet often, and never really have issues with my dogs other than this one, I haven't been too concerned. I have gone with the one that was most recommended by people I know and online reviews, as well as the most affordable in the area. They were one in the same. 
She also gave me Goodwinol Ointment for his skin lesions. She told me twice a day, then the bottle says once a day. They're conveniently closed now so I can't even call and ask. Honestly, I think she didn't want to do loodwork beacuse my appointment was at five, they close at six, and by that time it was going on 5:45p.
I hate going to the vet. I hate it. I feel like I never leave with any answers. I was hoping that they could at least tell me what the issue is, so I could find a holistic answer. Nope. "Fecal is clear, here, have antibiotics!" pfft.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

CorgiPaws said:


> Okay, just got back from the vet. I'm really annoyed.
> She ran the fecal sample, and as I was afraid, it came back entirely normal. She said there were a few spores in it, nothing that should raise concern, especially for such an ongoing problem.
> He also had little a little tiny sore by his mouth that showed up about three days ago. I didn't think anything of it because he's always getting little scrapes and scratches at daycare. It's what dogs do.
> Well, she wanted to take a skin scraping, so I did that. It came back as a type of mite, she said not not really contagious at all, it's moreso a sign of an immune Deficiency which means digestive issues make a whole lot more sense.
> ...


WOW...you NEED a new vet. 

If she hasn't even heard of Tylan Powder...makes me question her knowledge. Its very widely used and every vet that I know, knows what it is and how to use it. Not sure if you can get it over the counter.

Most dogs have mites. Its just when they do have a depressed immune system that you see the signs. Probably unrelated.

Metronidazole is a pretty safe drug, and it really does help. Not only is it an antibiotic, but its an anti-infammatory to help with colitis. I wouldn't worry about it if I were you. I give it to my dogs, whenever I notice their stools getting loose and not getting better right away. I would say that you do not need to give it the full lenght of the perscription. Just give it til you see normal stools for two days. This should only take about 4 days, tops. Keep the rest on hand just in case. What dosage of Metronidazole, mg wise???


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

danemama08 said:


> WOW...you NEED a new vet.
> 
> If she hasn't even heard of Tylan Powder...makes me question her knowledge. Its very widely used and every vet that I know, knows what it is and how to use it. Not sure if you can get it over the counter.


She'd heard of it, but I guess doesn't use it. This wasnt my normal vet. Same office, but not the vet I usually see there. Not that I entirely agree with my vet anyway....
There are a LOT more options when I move to Vegas. I will find a vet I really like here. Where I'm at options are so few. 



danemama08 said:


> Most dogs have mites. Its just when they do have a depressed immune system that you see the signs. Probably unrelated.


This is what she said, but he did have two tiny spots, smaller than a dime, both by his mouth, and she took scrapings of both. So is this ointment even necessary? It smells like rubber. Looks like crap.




danemama08 said:


> Metronidazole is a pretty safe drug, and it really does help. Not only is it an antibiotic, but its an anti-infammatory to help with colitis. I wouldn't worry about it if I were you. I give it to my dogs, whenever I notice their stools getting loose and not getting better right away. I would say that you do not need to give it the full lenght of the perscription. Just give it til you see normal stools for two days. This should only take about 4 days, tops. Keep the rest on hand just in case. What dosage of Metronidazole, mg wise???


See, I'm confused. She gave me ten days worth, but also wants me to check back with her Friday if I don't see improvement. I have no idea when I am supposed to see anything happen.
The bottle says 250MG, but they're cut in half, and I give one half AM, one half PM. He is 19lbs.


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## rannmiller (Jun 27, 2008)

I hear Jolie Pope at American Paws is fantastic and I think there's supposed to be a holistic vet in Bountiful. But I also know those are both pretty far from you. Upon google searching though, I'm having a very hard time finding the alleged holistic vet in Bountiful and the American Paws website is completely useless.


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

rannmiller said:


> I hear Jolie Pope at American Paws is fantastic and I think there's supposed to be a holistic vet in Bountiful. But I also know those are both pretty far from you. Upon google searching though, I'm having a very hard time finding the alleged holistic vet in Bountiful and the American Paws website is completely useless.


I had this problem today, too. I was searching for a holistic vet, but everything online was incredibly outdated. I have not heard of American Paws, and Bountiful is a little over an hour away from me, but I can make that work. Thanks for the info, I will definately look into that... if I can actually find any info.
Utah in general is not very holistic. Not many health food stores, holistic offices for people, let alone vets. I don't like conventional medicine, especially antibiotics!! I had in internal MRSA attack that really almost killed me, and things like this are caused by antibiotics being overused. Poor Grissom, I just wnt to do what's best for him. I spent $106 today and left knowing nothing I didn't know going in reguarding his diarrhea. So frustrating.


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## rannmiller (Jun 27, 2008)

I'd recommend giving the antibiotics a try since you paid for them and for the advice, and danemama says it's ok. 

Have you heard of Dancing Cats Feline Health Center in SLC? the vet there is partially holistic and that's where I am working now. So far I really love it there and wish she wasn't just a feline-only veterinarian so I could take my pups to her too. I think I'm gonna give American Paws a try since it came highly recommended by a fellow raw feeder at work who's been in the area for a while.


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## chowder (Sep 7, 2008)

Metronidazole is the generic name for Flagyl. Technically it's not approved for use in dogs. I lost a puppy last year because he reacted badly to it. They gave it to me for Rocky when he had coccidia when we first got him and he had horrendous diarhea from it. Some dogs react to it so I will never use it again. Here is a quote from Vetinfo.com

"Metronidazole has never been approved for use in dogs and cats but it is used quite frequently to treat giardiasis and inflammatory bowel disorders. It is also used to aid in the treatment of anerobic bacteria in the respiratory tract. 

Metronidazole can cause neurologic signs if overdosed, including loss of balance, visual problems, vomiting, rapid eye movements (nystagmus), tremors and seizures." 

My dog last year got those neurologic signs within an hour of receiving the drug and it was suppose to be the right dose for his size.

I consider it a 'cure all' choice for when they don't have any idea why the dog has diarrhea. 

I know a lot of people use it without any problems but after losing two dogs to drugs last year, I no longer will give them medicine without a definite reason and a proven safety record IN DOGS.


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## Whiskey's Momma (Sep 23, 2009)

I feel so bad for you, hope they get better.


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## EnglishBullTerriers (Sep 10, 2008)

Hey,
I didn't read all the way through all of the posts, but did you have them check for things like Crypto, Campy and other things like that? I know that it ususally takes a couple of days to grow some cultures and stuff, but you might want to see if that says anything. Plus, if it is something like that, you will need to watch the other dogs close because they could get it also and TURST me, you DON"T want that!  
At work we get guys with those as well as other things and we give things like Septra, Tylan, Metronidazol and Erythromicine (I think thats how its spelled  ). If it is bad enough, we will give a combo of the above mentioned and a 5-10 day cycle of Baytril. All are antibiotics, but it really doesn't sound like food related as much as something going on in his digestive system. 
My next question would be, could you put him back on raw? I know that you aren't allowed freezer space, but maybe you could convince them to give you a bottom drawyer of the frige. Then you can just but about a weeks worth of chicken....etc, until you move. That way the meat that you buy for Griss won't go bad in that amount of time and he can have what his body might be more willing to accept. Just a suggestion.
If not, then at least try to get something to get rid of the diarrhea for about a week and then find a good food that he can eat and keep him on it till you move. If he starts with diarrhea again, keep him on the same food and find a 'dog pepto' and see if that at least keeps him a little more comfy. I know that when Owen went on raw, now if he even eats a little kibble he will explode out the back end for a day or two. 
Good luck and give poor Griss a good scratch behind the ears!


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## claybuster (Dec 18, 2008)

CorgiPaws said:


> Okay, so I am at my wits end with Grissom and his diarrhea. I'm looking for any and all suggestions.
> I got Grissom New Years Eve at 8 weeks old. Other than an umbilical hernia, he was tip-top shape, perfectly healthy. His breeder had him on Pedigree, so I made the switch to Wellness Just for Puppy immediately. Switch went flawless, no loose stools. He was on Wellness until February, when I started ordering my food from my current job. I put him on Innova Puppy because I get it wholesale, and we dont carry Wellness. He was getting 50% Innova, 50% wild game meat. Again, transition went flawless. No loose stool.
> He was always solid, and then around August he developed a poop eating habit, which is a whole other topic that has be absolutely at my wits end. Around this time, he developed occasional diarrhea, that he ONLY got after eating the poop, so I want overly concerned.
> As time went on, it just got worse and worse. I put him on raw, but that only lasted for two weeks before I was kicked out of the freezer by my grandparents. I have no choice in my living situation to feed kibble. I fully intend to return to raw in January when I move out. As for now, this is not an option.
> ...



So sorry read you're going through all this and I hope it gets better soon.

Don't worry too much about about the dog being outside overnight in cold weather. You have the insulated dog box and he should be fine. Some people kennel their dogs exclusively outside 24/7 winter and summer. Food intake will increase in colder weather but that is normal.


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## EnglishBullTerriers (Sep 10, 2008)

Also, with the Metron, you might want to see if you can get the fecal bacteriology done before the Metron starts working. If not then the vet will just say, see, I told you it was nothing!


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## debussyj (Jul 29, 2009)

God, I feel so bad for you! I have also found Tylan (Tylosin) a lifesaver for bad poops with my Vizslas. I am stunned your vet never heard about it. I've found it to be very safe and useful. As you know, my boy has the "Bilious Vomiting" problem. My vet originally gave me the Metronidazole (Flagyl). That junk is an absolute nightmare! Made my boy pretty catatonic and when dosed in the evenings, made him so hyperactive he couldn't sleep. I don't like that drug! I'm feeling the Evo is too rich for your boy also. I'm having good luck with the Honest Kitchen dehydrated raw, grainless formulations, specifically Force and Embark. They're so expensive though. I've been doing a mix of the HK with Solid Gold Wee Bites (bison formula) and the stools and stomach issues have been great. Do you give your pup canned pumpkin? I think it helps. When my guy has the poop issues, I go right away for the Tylan and I spring for the canned I/D diet, which is turkey and rice. Granted I'm not a lover of the Science Diet stuff, but I think this canned formulation is helpful to straighten out the stomach and stool issues. I do it for say a week, and then move on to his regular food. I'm just worried for your dog. Best of luck!


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## claybuster (Dec 18, 2008)

Maybe give this a try? It may work for you and hopefully get the diarrhea under control. 

FortiFlora Case Studies


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## jdatwood (Apr 13, 2009)

I just have this feeling that Linsey isn't going to give her dog ANYTHING that Purina makes...


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

claybuster said:


> Maybe give this a try? It may work for you and hopefully get the diarrhea under control.
> 
> FortiFlora Case Studies


I do appreciate the suggestion, but....




jdatwood said:


> I just have this feeling that Linsey isn't going to give her dog ANYTHING that Purina makes...


He hit the nail right on the head. 



Also, I've heard a lot of really negative things about the FortiFlora. I'm giving him the antibiotics, and just as I thought, they aren't doing anything. . When his antibiotics are done, I'm going to put him back on his Animal Naturals restore Probiotic (that for some reason I can't find any information online about it, wich is really bugging me. The pill form that comes up is not the one I have, I have a 4oz. jar full of powder that cost me $50 but will last pretty much a lifetime) for two weeks before I go back to any vet. He was only on it about a week before we went to the vet, and that didn't give it enough time to do anything. So, I guess five more days of antibiotics, and then two weeks of his probiotic, and 'll let y'all know how he's doing. 
I just want to fix my poor puppy. I have a job interview in Las Vegas saturday morning, so i'm headding out of town tomorrow, and I'm taking him with me rather than boarding him so I can keep an eye on him.





claybuster said:


> Don't worry too much about about the dog being outside overnight in cold weather. You have the insulated dog box and he should be fine. Some people kennel their dogs exclusively outside 24/7 winter and summer. Food intake will increase in colder weather but that is normal.


I know I shouldn't worry too much. His dog house is really nice, but it's a matter of feeling like he belongs inside with me. i make Champ stay out there with him so he's not alone or neglected. It really bothers me that every time I go out at night to let him out to go potty, he's shivering, so I warm him up before putting him back to bed. I feel like such an awful dog owner right now, but Jan. 4th is my moving date, and that's not THAT far enough away to justify any kind of rehoming, not to mention I could not LIVE without Grissom.


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## 1605 (May 27, 2009)

CorgiPaws said:


> Also, I've heard a lot of really negative things about the FortiFlora. I'm giving him the antibiotics, and just as I thought, they aren't doing anything. . When his antibiotics are done, I'm going to put him back on his Animal Naturals restore Probiotic (that for some reason I can't find any information online about it, wich is really bugging me. The pill form that comes up is not the one I have, I have a 4oz. jar full of powder that cost me $50 but will last pretty much a lifetime) for two weeks before I go back to any vet. He was only on it about a week before we went to the vet, and that didn't give it enough time to do anything. So, I guess five more days of antibiotics, and then two weeks of his probiotic, and 'll let y'all know how he's doing.


Lindsay, I would feel just as badly as you if my dog was going through this, but you really do need to give the antibiotics a chance to work. As of the date of my posting this, it's only been about 2 1/2 days that your dog's been on them. That being said, you indicate he was a WEEK on the probiotics with no effect, which I'm thinking should have been enough time to see something happening. Maybe they aren't the answer for a dog who's digestive system is compromised?

All I'm hearing from you is negative, negative, negative about your vet. Why not try to work together?


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

SubMariner said:


> Lindsay, I would feel just as badly as you if my dog was going through this, but you really do need to give the antibiotics a chance to work.


I am giving them a chance, I am going to see the ten days through, as I already stated. I don't have much hope that they'll work, but I'm trying it. 



SubMariner said:


> you indicate he was a WEEK on the probiotics with no effect, which I'm thinking should have been enough time to see something happening. Maybe they aren't the answer for a dog who's digestive system is compromised?


Probiotics generally take about two weeks to start seeing results. Probiotics make a lot more sense to me. ALSO, which I did not mention, so that's my mistake- the antibiotics have made him vomit nearly every time I give them, vomiting was not an issue prior. 




SubMariner said:


> All I'm hearing from you is negative, negative, negative about your vet. Why not try to work together?


This was NOT my normal vet, she was the only one at that office with an appointment. I do not think highly of her whatsoever, so I have nothing positive to say about her. I wanted a blood profile run, she would not do it. He had a dry spot smaller than a dime, and after a skin scraping that she did, he now had a big red gouge in his face the size of a quarter. I did not like the way she handled my dog, nor the way she spoke to me. After having such a negative experience, I called a breeder friend that goes to he same clinic, and asked if she ever got that particular vet. She went on for over an hour about how terrible she is, and about how she did such a terrible job on her Boxer's c-sections. I will go to a different clinic next time if need be, but this woman is not looking at my dog, let alone touching him, ever again. She did absolutely nothing to actually figure out whatis wrong with him. Ran a clean fecal and gave antibiotics. 
I apologize for being so negative about her and the whole experience. When I take my dog in, willing to pay for whatever it takes to come up with a firm diagnosis, I expect a vet to be willing to do what it takes, not make a half-a$$ attempt, and refuse to run blood. Unacceptable.


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

Yeah, unfortunately that happens! At my vet clinic I looooooove my vet but he has an associate that I've had to see from time to time that I don't nearly like as much, she doesn't seem to really listen to what I'm saying about the concerns of my animals the way my male vet does. Hopefully you'll figure out whats going on with Grissom soon, his little corgi butt is goin start gettin sore!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## EnglishBullTerriers (Sep 10, 2008)

As you said, give the antibiotics a try. Go ahead and make an appointment with your regular vet for the time of the last day of meds. Give the last dose of meds the day of the appointment, even if it is in the office to show them that it isn't working. Ask your regular vet to do blood work, fecal culturs (this will take a couple of days to get results back, so you will not have the answers from those that day, If you do, get another vet!) and also ask for the Tylan powder, or something that will TAKE care of the diarrhea until the results are in. It could be something that is living in his digestive system that will take a strong drug to fix before you can go anywhere else. 
Durring all this time, put him on a good, light on the system food and DON'T change. Keep it going till all of this is worked out of his system. Also, you can probably add some pumpkin to his food and see if that helps... After he gets new meds, if the Metron doesn't work.
I think what might be happening is, he probably got something from the daycare a while ago and then his food changed and he might be a little stressed by all of the happenings of your life right now. Dogs can be sensative to stuff like that if there is already something going on and then all of a sudden, you see the worst part of it. All of that added on top of his fascination with poo, and he might just be overloaded. 
Get him under control for no less then a week and then see what needs to be changed. I would wait on the probiotics until he is FULLY undercontrol because that might just make things worse then they already are.

From my experience, the Metron should show signs of working around 3-5 days.
Keep us updated on how things are going. I am, as well as probably everyone else, very interested in how he is doing. 
How are the other 2 doing?


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

EnglishBullTerriers said:


> Durring all this time, put him on a good, light on the system food and DON'T change. Keep it going till all of this is worked out of his system. Also, you can probably add some pumpkin to his food and see if that helps... After he gets new meds, if the Metron doesn't work.


He's been on California Natural Lamb and Rice for a while, and I intend on keeping him on it through December. That's about as light on the system as kibble gets. 
I thought about giving the pumpkin, but in my mind i guess I'm trying to keep it as simple as I can through the course of the antibiotics, so I know if I see results, what did it. DOes that make sense? When i find whatever works, I want to know what to give credit to. 



EnglishBullTerriers said:


> I think what might be happening is, he probably got something from the daycare a while ago and then his food changed and he might be a little stressed by all of the happenings of your life right now.


Tis waas also a thought I had, and perhaps it's what happened. My life is kind of hectic right now, but i've still kept the dogs on their schedule. I'm sure they know I'm going kind of nuts, though. Dogs seem to pick up on everything. No other reports of dogs getting sick at daycare have been reported, but it's still a possibility.



EnglishBullTerriers said:


> All of that added on top of his fascination with poo, and he might just be overloaded.


I'd be happy if i could just get to the bottom of his facination with poo! super sick. 



EnglishBullTerriers said:


> Get him under control for no less then a week and then see what needs to be changed.


I haven't been able to get him "under control" for any period of time. :frown: aThat's the problem. 



EnglishBullTerriers said:


> How are the other 2 doing?


The other two are doing wonderful. 
Champ had diarrhea for one day, but recovered and is absolutely fine. 
Max is suprisingly doing well, despite the fact we almost lost him not that long ago. He made some kind of weird recovery. He's living with my brother right now, he has a fenced yard, and a MUCH more calm environment for the grumpy old man. He's doing well.


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## EnglishBullTerriers (Sep 10, 2008)

CorgiPaws said:


> He's been on California Natural Lamb and Rice for a while, and I intend on keeping him on it through December. That's about as light on the system as kibble gets.
> I thought about giving the pumpkin, but in my mind i guess I'm trying to keep it as simple as I can through the course of the antibiotics, so I know if I see results, what did it. DOes that make sense? When i find whatever works, I want to know what to give credit to.


The pumpkin is a suggestion for after the vet visit when the Metron is done. Deff, wait till after the Metron and then add it if you are just waiting for results or whatever. What you said make perfect sence and that was what I tried to say, Sorry! 



> This was also a thought I had, and perhaps it's what happened. My life is kind of hectic right now, but i've still kept the dogs on their schedule. I'm sure they know I'm going kind of nuts, though. Dogs seem to pick up on everything. No other reports of dogs getting sick at daycare have been reported, but it's still a possibility.


The other dogs might not be showing signs. The other dogs might look fine, but have something going on and Griss just ended up with it since he has been through so much. Or it might be an after effect since he has started the diarrhea.

Owen is very good with me and knows that I am going to be leaving for more then a few hours when I do little things to make it look like I am not going anywhere. I don't know how he knows, but he always knows when something is going to happen or is wrong!  





> I haven't been able to get him "under control" for any period of time. :frown: That's the problem.


Well, Hopefully the Metron will work or the second vet visit will tell a ton more info about what might be going on!  I hope that he gets to feeling better. I really am rooting for him!! 
Oh, and I also thought about his poor behind and thought about, maybe you can get some diapper cream to put on his butt if it gets too red or inflamed! That might make him feel a little better.




> The other two are doing wonderful.
> Champ had diarrhea for one day, but recovered and is absolutely fine.
> Max is suprisingly doing well, despite the fact we almost lost him not that long ago. He made some kind of weird recovery. He's living with my brother right now, he has a fenced yard, and a MUCH more calm environment for the grumpy old man. He's doing well.


Thats great! At least that is going well!


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## 1605 (May 27, 2009)

CorgiPaws said:


> I am giving them a chance, I am going to see the ten days through, as I already stated. I don't have much hope that they'll work, but I'm trying it.
> 
> 
> Probiotics generally take about two weeks to start seeing results. Probiotics make a lot more sense to me. ALSO, which I did not mention, so that's my mistake- the antibiotics have made him vomit nearly every time I give them, vomiting was not an issue prior.
> ...



Now that I've heard more, I understand completely. I hope your dog (and you) feel better soon.


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

Grissom has been on the antibiotic for six days. I have seen very very little improvement. 
He's usually solid for his first poop in the morning, but still gets runny through the day and is total mush by evening. He is, however, holding it through the night which is a step up.
He's been acting entirely normal still, but does vomit every time he takes his antibiotic. Friday I started giving him half of his breakfast, then waiting a good 30 minutes, and giving him the other half with his pill. At least this way he's still getting to digest some of his food. 
I'm going to call the vet tomorrow and report on his progress. I still want blood run, though.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

CorgiPaws said:


> I still want blood run, though.


There is no reason why they should refuse to do this. Ask them to do it no matter what they say, you are the client and you PAY for their services. It shouldn't matter if they think you should have it done or not. If you are willing to pay for it to be done, they should be happy to provide that service. Especially if the antibiotic is not working, and you should definitely seen improvement by this time if it were actually helping the problem. To me if its not working, the problem is something else...diagnosing a problem is very difficult and frustrating sometimes.


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## pokey (Oct 5, 2009)

If he is vomiting after the medication, then there is a good chance he isn't getting the medication. He should not be vomiting; something is not right here. I hope you get some answers from the vet tomorrow.


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## Gia (May 29, 2009)

I'm sorry you are having such a hard time figuring out this problem. 
I have a client that has a family of Golden Retrievers. They have 5! They were destined to home cook for their dogs, because no matter what kind of dog food they tried the dogs would have terrible diarrhea. This went on for a couple of years...I had read about a product called BioSponge and told them about it.

Well, they tried it and it worked! The dogs regularily get a dose of BioSponge and they are now able to eat dog food! Granted, it is not a premium brand, but Eukanuba for Sensitive Stomachs. But, it works! They have been able to keep them on this for the last couple of years. I didn't even know anyone who had tried it, when I told them about it, but they told me it worked better than anything they had tried. 

Canine Bio-Sponge

and in paste form
Bio-Sponge Paste


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

pokey said:


> If he is vomiting after the medication, then there is a good chance he isn't getting the medication. He should not be vomiting; something is not right here. I hope you get some answers from the vet tomorrow.


The meds can make him vomit if its given on an empty stomach, same as in humans...hence why she is feeding him a bit when the meds are given. There are cases that even the meds will make a dog vomit even on a full stomach. Some dogs have a hard time with meds.


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## pokey (Oct 5, 2009)

I understand the meds might be causing the vomiting; but if he isn't keeping the meds down, they are not being absorbed. In other words, the meds are not doing their job.


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## Doc (Jan 17, 2009)

Lindsey,

I do not and will not ever give my dogs that medicine. My dogs throw up after taking it and are very lethargic from it. Have you tried keopectate? It works, as does pepto bismal and imodium. Some dogs are highly allergic to the imodium and it can even cause death in collies I beleive.

I had a dog that, at 4 months old, had a foot of her small intestine removed because of a blockage. Long story short, she had an extremely hard time producing solid stools for a very long time. I searched everywhere for a food that would be gentle on her stomach especially while she recovered from her operation. Now sit down. The best, the only one that worked was Purina Vet Diet E/N can. If you can find it, I would try it but only feed the can, the kibble is a different mixture.

My plan of attack would be to get her bowels under some control via the above mentioned or even some pumkin add find the cans of Purina E/N. I know how difficult it is to watch your poor dog suffer. I've been there.

Oh yeah, that pup that had a foot of her intestine removed, well she is 28 inches at the withers and weighs over 90 poundds now and still filling out!


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

danemama08 said:


> There is no reason why they should refuse to do this. Ask them to do it no matter what they say, you are the client and you PAY for their services. It shouldn't matter if they think you should have it done or not. If you are willing to pay for it to be done, they should be happy to provide that service.


Honestly, I think the reason this vet would not run it is because I was the last appointment of the day and it was approaching close. But then again, she wouldn't even make an appointment to run it the next day, or any day before the full round of antibiotics. It's hard to tell though, this is not my normal vet, I have no previous experience with her. 



I know meds can upset an empty stomach, but he was vomiting even when given with his full meal. His weight started dropping, so I started feeding him a little more than half of it without his pill, so if he's going to vomit, at least he won't vomit all of his food. When I give him his pill about 45 minutes later, he usually vomits about 15-20 minutes after (though he has kept the pill down about 4 times total). I look for any traces of the pill each time, and have only found a little white fleck once. I know this doesn't mean it's not there, but at least it's somewhat digesting before he vomits. 


Energy level, eyes, gums, skin & coat are all still perfect. He still never acts ill other than the vomiting, but it's an immediate bounce back. That's what makes it tough. He doesn't act like he's suffering or miserable, but something HAS to be wrong with him. I called the vet today. The next avaliable appointment with MY vet isn't until the 26th, and I'd have to take time of work to get it. I booked it, but am going to research other vets in the area and see if I can't get him in somewhere else sooner. I am not going to take him back to the same lady because I already don't trust her commitment (or lack thereof) and don't want to spend more time and money to get no answers, or no answers that I feel confident in. I am not happy about giving him the meds in the first place, but I'm willing to try anything at this point, other than RX foods. Not quite willing to give him corn, soy, and wheat yet. Call me crazy. 



On another note, his skin scrapings from the mites are finally healing! 


I'm keeping him away from other dogs, which he's hating, but I just don't want anything to compromise any results I may or may not see. 

This little guy is my heart and soul. Don't get me wrong, I've loved ALL of my pets, but he's just... special. I don't know, ther's something there with him I've never had with any of my other animals. Money isn't so much an abject when it comes to him, and I'm not going to give up on him. I can deal with diarrhea for the rest of his life if need be, I just want HIM comfortable, ya know? I want to know that he is the healthiest, happiest dog he can possibly be.


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## Shamrockmommy (Sep 10, 2009)

I"m sorry he's going through this, poor guy! 
What a frustrating thing for you. 

I just wanted to recommend a food that has worked so well for my guys PetGuard Lifespan. It isn't grain free or super spectacular, but it has a nice ingredient list, mid protein and fat. Much more than that and my own dogs get diarrhea.

Could you also do a course of panacur wormer? I have read that dogs can get giardia, which doesn't always show up in a fecal, have chronic better/worse poo problems. Once they get the wormer through they get better. 

It's a long shot, I know, but anything to make him more comfortable and help your grandparents accept the dogs for just a little longer? 

Take care!


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## jdatwood (Apr 13, 2009)

Kinda doubt Linsey is gonna feed PetGuard... She's going back to RAW really soon and don't see her taking 3 steps backwards to a mediocre kibble

How long have you fed your dogs something else to give them time to adjust before assuming it's going to give them diarrhea? Most changes from one to another is going to upset their digestive balance. Many people see diarrhea going to RAW but that clears up and their dogs are in better health in the end...


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## Shamrockmommy (Sep 10, 2009)

I realize there are those who feel that raw is the only/best way to feed dogs. I have tried MANY times over the years for several months on end battling random explosive diarrhea. Stop the raw, the diarrhea stops. It is what it is. I was just trying to help out her dog. 

I recommend petguard because it is relatively simple she coudl try for the time being. <shrugs>


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

Okay, so Grissom took his last pill yesterday. Here's the changes I noticed the last few days:
He is solid in the morning, and going less times in the day. He also can hold it through the night, which was our biggest battle. If he can keep that up for any length of time, HOPEFULLY my grandpa will let him back in at night. I feel like I'm such a terrible owner with him locked outside. :-(
He does, however, still have the diarrhea by night time. I also have not noticed blood in the stools, either. So there is some improvement, just not 100%. As for his food, I'm keeping him on the California Natural Lamb & Rice until Decemebr at least. Now that I've pretty much established it's not food related, I'd like to get him on higher quality, but I don't want to make a switch on him anytime soon. Come January, he'll be raw fed.
Now that he's not taking any more pills, he's putting his weight back on nicely. I have given him an extra half of a meal at lunchtime in addition to his full AM & PM meals) to help him put it back on. Is this ok?
An appointment opened up with my second choice vet for next Tuesday, so I took that one. 

As for the mites. It's hard to tell if they are really getting better. she scraped his face SO raw. The scabs from that healed, but I haven't noticed hair growing back yet. It's been... eleven days now. What should I expect? She said if they didn't improve that he'd have to have a full body dip. This sounds a little extreme when he only has two little tiny spots and they're by his mouth.


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## rannmiller (Jun 27, 2008)

Shamrockmommy said:


> I realize there are those who feel that raw is the only/best way to feed dogs. I have tried MANY times over the years for several months on end battling random explosive diarrhea. Stop the raw, the diarrhea stops. It is what it is. I was just trying to help out her dog.


That makes sense, but she isn't on raw right now. And all this has been going on while she's been on kibble. 



CorgiPaws said:


> I feel like I'm such a terrible owner with him locked outside. :-(


No, a terrible owner would have given up on him and gotten rid of him already. You're a wonderful dog mom. 



CorgiPaws said:


> Now that he's not taking any more pills, he's putting his weight back on nicely. I have given him an extra half of a meal at lunchtime in addition to his full AM & PM meals) to help him put it back on. Is this ok?


Actually, adding this extra food to his diet may be still contributing to the diarrhea at night. I would say try getting him back on his regular schedule and see if that helps him. He should still gain back weight, just a little more slowly. 



CorgiPaws said:


> As for the mites. It's hard to tell if they are really getting better. she scraped his face SO raw. The scabs from that healed, but I haven't noticed hair growing back yet. It's been... eleven days now. What should I expect? She said if they didn't improve that he'd have to have a full body dip. This sounds a little extreme when he only has two little tiny spots and they're by his mouth.


I don't know, I'd definitely get a second opinion on that one. Good luck!


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

rannmiller said:


> No, a terrible owner would have given up on him and gotten rid of him already. You're a wonderful dog mom.


Thanks. Makes me feel a little better. It's just getting so cold, and I feel like he belongs inside, poor little guy.



rannmiller said:


> Actually, adding this extra food to his diet may be still contributing to the diarrhea at night. I would say try getting him back on his regular schedule and see if that helps him. He should still gain back weight, just a little more slowly.


You could be right. His normal meals are just over 1/3 of a cup, so his "lunch" is so little I didn't think it would do much harm. He's was only 19lbs at the vet, and when I weighed him this morning, he had dropped two pounds (which is quite a bit for a little guy) and was looking a little gaunt. I suppose I'll stop his lunch though, and see if that helps him out at all.  I'll do anything. I can't wait til Tuesday, I really want blood done.


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## Shamrockmommy (Sep 10, 2009)

I agree that you might try cutting back the amount of food he gets. Maybe feed twice daily instead of once (not sure what you do) until the poops firm up and then see how his bodyweight is before you adjust up. 

Good luck, hope these next few months go by quickly for you guys and you can get back to your routine.


I thought the comment about how long you are giving them to adjust to a new food- as Ihave just ended 3 months of trying to get my own 3 to adjust to raw, albeit, unsuccessfully. Sorry about that. I had mentioned it on another thread.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Shamrockmommy said:


> I thought the comment about how long you are giving them to adjust to a new food- as Ihave just ended 3 months of trying to get my own 3 to adjust to raw, albeit, unsuccessfully. Sorry about that. I had mentioned it on another thread.


Our dogs still get diarrhea on occasion. It's just a normal bodily function in response to something that just doesn't sit right with their system. It can be from things totally food unrelated. With ours it's usually when we feed organs, but they need them in their diet so we put up with loose stools for the sake of overall better nutrition. And it's normal for dogs to not handle organ tissue that well since it's very rich.

How were you switching them to raw? Because there is certainly a very wrong way to do it. If done the right way, there is no reason why any dog should not be capable of handling a raw diet. When we switched our puppy at 8 weeks to raw, it still took her several months to get things right. Just stick with it and it will be worth it in the long run!

And Linsey...definitely don't worry about his weight right now. As long as he's not totally emaciated he should be fine. You don't want to take two steps back with increasing his food and have his system get out of sorts again. If anything feeding him a bit less is better for now. If you're noticing his stools getting looser and looser by the end of the day, it might be from getting too much food. Give his body a chance to "empty out" by the end of the day by feeding him less. 

Definitely request bloodwork. A blood draw should only take 5 minutes tops so even if it's the end of the day, there's no excuse why it CAN'T be done.


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## rannmiller (Jun 27, 2008)

Yeah and it only takes about 10 - 15 minutes to run it, so there's really no excuse unless Griss *really* puts up a fight having his blood drawn.


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

rannmiller said:


> unless Griss *really* puts up a fight having his blood drawn.


He's a Corgi. I'll leave it at that. lol. 
I have worked with him on letting other people handle him, and it's like he'll do perfectly, and then we'll get to the vet, and he's a little brat. He does not growel or snap in any way, just fights and fights and fights, and grunts, and fights some more. It's tough because I don't know many people here, just family and coworkers, all of which he'll let "handle" him. (for the most part)


Hopefully Tuesday I will have answers. I don't cxare so much for them to recommend a way to FIX it, I just want to know what IT is so I an decide what I'm comfortable with giving him from there. 
As for his food, we skipped lunch today & yesterday. No improvement, but it was only day two of no lunch. His am & pm meals are already so tiny, I don't know that I can cut back on them without weight falling off again. (just over 1/3 of a cup, and the kibbles are relatively big- but he actually stops to chew them!) I'm amazed at how quickly his weight really goes up and down. I keep him on the lean side as it is (Corgis are prone to back issues as it is, I don't need more weight on him) so these 2lbs he's lost in 2 weeks time has him looking almost sickly to me. I don't like it.:frown: Someone actually commented on him at PetSmart today, I was so embarrassed! I went to buy canned food lids for work, and someone commented on how skinny he is. I don't feel like he's SUPER skinny, but skinny enough for someone to comment. :frown: It was a blow to the doggy mommy ego I gues you could say. 

When do you think it's safe to reintroduce the raw portion of his diet, or should I just leave it be until December? Befoer all this started I was giving him this ground venison, elk, or buffalo that I buy in 1lb packages at work. When we started having issues, and I simplified his diet, I took this out as well. Since I've pretty much established this is not food related (and I really wanted to blame the food! lol) I'd like to give him the raw meat back. Also, before the issues started, I wasn't giving any kibble at all on Sundays, and doing deer ribs as a meal replacement. I'm just so afraid to mess with anything!
Anyway, sorry for yet another long rant about Grissom's "broken butt" as this issue is so affectionately referred to by my family. 



One more thing, I imagine his poor little butt is super sore by now, but there doesn't seem to be any redness, swelling, irritation, etc. and he's not licking, scooting, etc. so do I assume he's fine? I can only imagine what a two month bout of diarrhea would feel like. Poor guy.


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## rannmiller (Jun 27, 2008)

Haha, "broken butt" that's hilarious! If the butt looks fine, it probably is. You could always try some bag balm on it though, if you think it needs it. 

As far as adding the raw back into his diet, I think it would be a good idea to start with more bony stuff like the dear ribs or chicken wings so that he's getting lots of bone which we all know helps firm up stools very well (usually). And I'm sure he'll appreciate it too! 

I'm sorry someone commented on his weight at Petsmart, I hope you at least briefly explained to them that you aren't abusing him, he's just having medical issues and it's hard to keep weight on a dog who's vomiting from medication and having diarrhea daily, you know? Hardly your fault! Of course if you'd just put him on Science Diet like veterinarians recommend... JK!


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## EnglishBullTerriers (Sep 10, 2008)

I agree with Rannmiller.
I don't see why the raw would hurt as long as it is mostly bone meals with some meat. If Owen gets a bout of diarrhea or even loose stool, I will give him a day or two of chicken quarters and it goes away. If you do give the ground meat, I would suggest only adding it as a 'topper' to the kibble and mixing in only a small amount with kibble. That way you are giving more meat to his diet and he should gain his weight back pretty soon. I would hold off on the ground for about a week after he has done well on the RMB meals. That way if he starts back with diarrhea at any point, you will have more of an idea of what caused it. 

As for people at Petsmart, they are idiots! You are doing a great job with keeping your little poop happy!!  You will all get through this and be better for it all! Just remember, only 3 more months!!


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

Thanks for the input! I was hoping I'd get some replies today. I think I'll go ahead and give him the deer rib today in place of his food. Super boney meals like that always made him solid before this was a "big" issue. I'll let you all know how he does!!

That's how I was doing the ground meat before all this poop chaos. lol. I know there are much better ways to feed raw, and ground is definately nowhere near the best, but about one pound of meat is all I can get away with as far as fridge space for the dogs. (I really think it's more of a them resenting the dogs than it is a space issue, because when I put a HUGE container of pasta salad in there, no one said anything, but come a six pack of chicken drunsticks, and the world is over.) I was doing 50% raw meat, with 50% kibble. I'll hold off on this until after his appointment Tuesday, and just see how he handles a rib today. :smile:


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## Doc (Jan 17, 2009)

You may want to try chicken backs. They are cheap and my dogs love them.


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## Guest (Oct 20, 2009)

Now with a new puppy in the house, there's no question Grissom will be feeling stressed and that may cause his symptoms to worsen.


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

I had bloodwork done yesterday- and everything is clear. The vet was going to run some more extensive tests yesterday and I didn't have the results of that when I left but she just called, and even still, with the exception of a few spores in his fecal, there are no abnormalities. 
He's holding i through the night.
Solid in the morning. 
No blood.
But still mushy at night. 
Still going quite a bit. About five/ six times a day, but that's better than the 15 he was doing.
Do I just call it good? 
Where do I go from here? My vet didn't seem too concerned, but I have a hard time just giving up and saying he's just going to have loose stools every night. Hopefully putting him on raw when I move will cure him, but what do I do until then??


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## rannmiller (Jun 27, 2008)

Well like we said, you can try to add more bone into the diet until you can go raw, but you might have to call it good until then :frown:


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

CorgiPaws said:


> Hopefully putting him on raw when I move will cure him, but what do I do until then??


Are you still cutting back on his meals?


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## EnglishBullTerriers (Sep 10, 2008)

Ditto to what Rann and Natalie said. Try to not over feed and continue with the bone in his diet. It might take a few more meals of that to help out his poo since there really is so much going on right now and the 'end' is coming near fairly quickly now and he is kibble raw mix till...  As long as it isn't severe diarrhea like it was and it is only soft and can form-somewhat, he should be doing better soon and you should see some weight gain pretty quickly. 
Jake is now starting to eat poop outside if I don't watch him.  I was going to read him some of your posts about Griss and tell him what it will do to him if he doesn't stop!  Plus, Owen started in with SEVERE diarrhea Monday night but is over it now. I think that he had some bad deer meat. All is soft now and hopefully it stays that way!  
I am glad that things are setteling down a little bit now. Keep us updated!


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

Natalie- I cut back to what he was on before, the slightly more than 1/3 c AM/PM (I use a 1/3 cup measuring scoop, but scoop is "heaping" a little) and left the lunch out. He's still looking thin, but did gain 1/2 lb back from before, so I'm sure that given time, he will gain his weight back on this. I keep the boys slender to begin with (don't want weight on Shepherd's hips/ knees or on Corgi's back- slender is key at our house) so the weight loss was very obvious.

I think I am going to try to do a meal replacement on Wednesdays as well. I would do chicken backs, but right now I'm sticking with what I can buy at work, so I just bring home one days worth and don't use up the grandparent's precious freezer space. Such a freaking joke. 

I guess I'll just have to call it good until raw comes when I move out. Our move date is Jan. 4th, but I really want to push it sooner. . 

We've had Annie, our Boxer puppy since Monday night, but they really only see her during the day, as she sleeps at Jon's house. (my fiance) They have taken to her rather well. It's been 3 days, and she's maybe eaten a cup of food total for us. I have never had a finicky eater, I hope she adjusts and learns to eat like the boys, I really don't want to have to separate them forever to keep them from eating her food. That will get old fast.


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## jdatwood (Apr 13, 2009)

Here's a thought... can you get a decent sized Igloo cooler to keep meat in? It'd hold a few days meat at a good temperature easilly


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

CorgiPaws said:


> Natalie- I cut back to what he was on before, the slightly more than 1/3 c AM/PM (I use a 1/3 cup measuring scoop, but scoop is "heaping" a little) and left the lunch out. He's still looking thin, but did gain 1/2 lb back from before, so I'm sure that given time, he will gain his weight back on this. I keep the boys slender to begin with (don't want weight on Shepherd's hips/ knees or on Corgi's back- slender is key at our house) so the weight loss was very obvious.
> 
> I think I am going to try to do a meal replacement on Wednesdays as well. I would do chicken backs, but right now I'm sticking with what I can buy at work, so I just bring home one days worth and don't use up the grandparent's precious freezer space. Such a freaking joke.
> 
> ...


Are his BM still solid in the morning and semi solid by evening? 1/3 cup am/pm sounds like a good amout to me...and with the "heaping" bit I would estimate that you are giving close to a half cup instead, which should be fine too.


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

danemama08 said:


> Are his BM still solid in the morning and semi solid by evening? 1/3 cup am/pm sounds like a good amout to me...and with the "heaping" bit I would estimate that you are giving close to a half cup instead, which should be fine too.


Depending on how much he indulges his dirty little poop eating habit, he is somewhat solid at evening, but not really. There's ever so slightly some form to it, but to pick it up- it's mush. 
He is at 20lbs, and the vet (and myself) want to see him closer to 22lbs. 

I mean, he's not a total pain in the butt now, no messes at night, and not total liquid during the day like before. I'd like to see him 100% solid and regular, but at this point, I'll take what I can get. 

Yeah, I would say that it might be close to half a cup, but not quite. The california natural kibbles are MUCH bigger than the innova he was on, so to use such a tiny scoop doesn't pick up hardly any at all. I think I am going to leave his diet alone until december. I am not a huge fan of kibble to begin with- let alone a diet of JUST kibble, but the fact of the matter is it's getting cold- and I'm not taking any chances of the diarrhea from Hell coming back. He needs to be able to come back inside at night before snow is on the ground.


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## rannmiller (Jun 27, 2008)

Maybe she's just holding out for the raw! hehe 

What did the breeder have her on?


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

rannmiller said:


> Maybe she's just holding out for the raw! hehe
> 
> What did the breeder have her on?


I hope she takes to it!
Breeder had her on Pro Plan Puppy, mixed with pro Plan Puppy Canned. 
I already switched the canned to Merrick Puppy plate in an attempt to soften stools (I have another thred on that, so I won't go into it) and 30lbs Innova being delivered Saturday.


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

It's baaaaaaack. 
With a freaking vengence.
Nothing changed. Nothing. 
I mean, we brought Annie into the picture two weeks ago, but she isn't living with me right now, so it's not like he even really sees her much, and even so, he loves her. 
No schedule change. No diet change. Nothing. 
And total liquid poo for the last two days. 
I already have a checkup appointment for Annie on Tuesday, I don't know if I need to call and ask them to squeeze him in too. I mean, they ran fecal, and did a full blood panel twice already. He had improved so much in the last couple weeks, I don't get it. What am I doing wrong?!:frown:


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