# Can organs be dangerous?



## nickiklaus (Dec 10, 2011)

Hi all, my dog has been sick lately and i was wondering if it is possible it could be because of the organs? i feed frozen imported beef liver sold in the grocery store and above it it says do not eat raw , maybe it is because when frozen organs are raw they could be contaminated with something? since it is the insides of a cow.
Or am i just being paranoid.. i wonder if i should just buy the fresh chicken liver and freeze that instead of buying the frozen beef liver? 
any advice is very appreciated thank you


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## creek817 (Feb 18, 2012)

I'm sorry, I really have no idea!! But if fresh chicken livers are an option, I would say get some of those, at least in addition to the beef liver, if not in place of them. What percentage of her meals is liver? How often are you feeding it? In what ways has she been sick?

I hope she gets better soon!


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

I think they mean for people not to eat it raw. Lots of people give liver and other organs frozen because its the only way their dogs will eat it. 

How much are you giving and how often? Your dog is small, and you only need to give a small amount, once a week or so. There is a chance (a small one) of overfeeding causing vitamen A poisoning. But, I think you would have to give a HUGE amount for that to even be possible. How long have you been feeding liver? Have you just started?


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## sandra0606 (Dec 22, 2011)

Yes I think that your dog is sick because of the frozen beef liver you bought from the market which might be very old. It's better you buy the fresh chicken liver and freeze.


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## nickiklaus (Dec 10, 2011)

I am feeding liver 10% of their (my 2 dogs , my 9 year old silky terrier which is the one that is sick and my 7month old havanese) meals three times a week. 
She has been sick for 4 days with diarrhea and vomiting (food and yellow stuff) a few times a day  went to the vet yesterday and got some pills to help her. But the thing is i and the vet think it is because she ate a leaf from a houseplant because in the vomit there were leaves BUT what if she ate that houseplant BECAUSE she was trying to vomit because the liver was bad? 
Ok i am definitly going to buy fresh liver from now on.


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## KittyKat (Feb 11, 2011)

I buy my liver from local places, hormone free, grass fed etc. Mainly because the liver is the detox center of the body and I worry about what sorts of things could build up there in cows that are in industrial type settings. Perhaps i'm just paranoid though...


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## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

The plant could have been the cause. Maybe stop feeding the beef liver for a couple of weeks and see if she gets any better? That's what I would do. Eliminate the possible cause and see if that helps. I would also remove the plant. If she gets better after the liver is no longer being fed to her you are left with two culprits(provided that everything else checks out ok): the plant and the liver. 

I would then start feeding the beef liver again and make sure the plant stays far away from her. If she gets sick again it's time to toss out the liver and not use it anymore. It would be great to find out that the plant was the cause instead because it's always better to have organs tof eed from two different animals than just one.


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## Sheltielover25 (Jan 18, 2011)

KittyKat said:


> I buy my liver from local places, hormone free, grass fed etc. Mainly because the liver is the detox center of the body and I worry about what sorts of things could build up there in cows that are in industrial type settings. Perhaps i'm just paranoid though...


I agree with you a hundred percent. No way would I ever consider buying Tyson's chicken livers as i live by their plant and see those chickens driving by on their way to slaughter and theyre so sick looking -- missing feathers, sore, no beaks. I can't imagine there would be much health benefit


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## Sheltielover25 (Jan 18, 2011)

Also, all the liver I buy is frozen. If it's frozen, it doesn't matter how old it is. I got some out of date lamb liver for .99 a lb b/c it was past the date of human consumption, but had been frozen the whole time. Lots of people buy in bulk and it stays frozen for months. I've gotten tons of meat that's been over a year old but frozen the entire time. You don't judge freshness based on frozen or not, judge it on the smell and appearance. I mean, I just had a cow butchered last week and of course the liver was frozen when I got it back... that's just silly and incorrect to say frozen means it's not fresh. I'd be willing to bet chicken livers aren't going right and left off the shelves and its sat there quite a while. I wouldn't be surprised to find out they put some out, after a couple days freeze it and then pull it back out in a couple weeks to put back on the shelves....chicken is the absolute worst liver to get in the store IMO. Most of those chickens never saw daylight!

Also, I eat raw, frozen liver every day and I'm still alive so that warning is silly too!


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

Nikklaus, what country are you from/ located? MY RANT is that people don't put where they are from on their avatar, it really helps us out to know where people are writing questions from....


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## Herzo (Feb 5, 2011)

whiteleo said:


> Nikklaus, what country are you from/ located? MY RANT is that people don't put where they are from on their avatar, it really helps us out to know where people are writing questions from....


Whiteleo I think it's Japan. I really don't think it's the liver but I like Dude and Bucks momma's plan.

And the poor chickens they need to be outside sometimes.


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## Sheltielover25 (Jan 18, 2011)

Well, I take that back as I can't speak for other countries and their treatment of animals... I have only looked at the US. So any US feeders, liver is such a small part of the diet, really do consider getting it from a healthier source than a commercial grocery store.


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## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

Sheltielover25 said:


> Well, I take that back as I can't speak for other countries and their treatment of animals... I have only looked at the US. So any US feeders, liver is such a small part of the diet, really do consider getting it from a healthier source than a commercial grocery store.


I agree. We have yet to be in need of liver. Every time we start to run low on liver I end up with another HUGE liver from either a cow or a pig.

But, that said, yes, I would feed grocery store liver in a pinch if I had to. I don't think it's BAD but I do think it is FAR batter to get organs from a privately butchered animal elsewhere.


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## nickiklaus (Dec 10, 2011)

Thank you all for the advice 
Yes i live in japan and where i live there is no farms so no way can i get it directly from there. And here in stores they do not tell you if it is hormone free grass fed ect.  
I actually do not want to take the risk of her getting sick again so when she gets better i am no longer going to feed her the beef liver and just give her the fresh chicken liver. And of course i am getting rid of that plant.


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## Sheltielover25 (Jan 18, 2011)

Dude and Bucks Mamma said:


> I don't think it's BAD but I do think it is FAR batter to get organs from a privately butchered animal elsewhere.


Please explain how you don't feel it's "bad" and that the health of these animals that have lived their whole life on top of other animals, walking and sleeping in their own feces, have tumors and no feathers as well as their beaks cut off, isn't compromised? I am really curious how people justify this as not bad. I mean, these chickens are pale colored, featherless, and literally have tumors sometimes... you really think there's nutritional value in that? Not to mention, their diet isn't appropriate due to them wanting to make them as fat as they can possible be. 

One of the benefits of a raw diet is you're able to know exactly where the animal came from and how it lived beforehand that you're feeding your animal. If you use craigslist and search hard enough for health stores and such you can find free-range, correctly fed animal liver. With liver being an essential part of the diet, it's worth the effort.


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

Dude and Bucks Mamma said:


> I agree. We have yet to be in need of liver. Every time we start to run low on liver I end up with another HUGE liver from either a cow or a pig.
> 
> But, that said, yes, I would feed grocery store liver in a pinch if I had to. I don't think it's BAD but I do think it is FAR batter to get organs from a privately butchered animal elsewhere.


I envy you!!:tongue: I want liver straight from the source! LOL!


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

nickiklaus said:


> Thank you all for the advice
> Yes i live in japan and where i live there is no farms so no way can i get it directly from there. And here in stores they do not tell you if it is hormone free grass fed ect.
> I actually do not want to take the risk of her getting sick again so when she gets better i am no longer going to feed her the beef liver and just give her the fresh chicken liver. And of course i am getting rid of that plant.


Can you find calf's liver?


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## nickiklaus (Dec 10, 2011)

Yes i can find veal liver but again frozen and imported like the beef liver


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

But veal liver is from young calves who haven't been subjected to hormones and nasty stuff...Since the liver cleanses gunk from the system this would be a better choice to feed..


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## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

Sheltielover25 said:


> Please explain how you don't feel it's "bad" and that the health of these animals that have lived their whole life on top of other animals, walking and sleeping in their own feces, have tumors and no feathers as well as their beaks cut off, isn't compromised? I am really curious how people justify this as not bad. I mean, these chickens are pale colored, featherless, and literally have tumors sometimes... you really think there's nutritional value in that? Not to mention, their diet isn't appropriate due to them wanting to make them as fat as they can possible be.
> 
> One of the benefits of a raw diet is you're able to know exactly where the animal came from and how it lived beforehand that you're feeding your animal. If you use craigslist and search hard enough for health stores and such you can find free-range, correctly fed animal liver. With liver being an essential part of the diet, it's worth the effort.


Because feeding them that liver is better than feeding them no liver at all. When I say "in a pinch" I don't mean I ran out of liver one day and ran out to the store to buy this liver the next. If I, for some reason, couldn't find liver elsewhere, then yes, I would feed them the chicken liver. A lot of the meat my dogs eat comes from the grocery store. Those animals don't eat properly either but I simply cannot afford free range, grass fed beef for me OR the dogs. I get it when I can but it's not always an option. One day, when I have unlimited funds and have no financial worries then yes, they will be fed all privately grown animals with nothing unnatural in them. 

I understand that one of the benefits of feeding raw is knowing where the meat came from but that doesn't mean I can always afford it. I am still feeding raw and whether the meat comes from a grocery store or not, it's still better than feeding kibble.


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## nickiklaus (Dec 10, 2011)

whiteleo said:


> But veal liver is from young calves who haven't been subjected to hormones and nasty stuff...Since the liver cleanses gunk from the system this would be a better choice to feed..


Ah i see, but my worry isn't just about the hormones and stuff they put in the cows but the fact it is frozen in a country,imported and frozen here who knows how old it is and if it got defrosted while being imported ect i think it is different if you buy it frozen but it is frozen in the country you buy it in


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

nickiklaus said:


> Ah i see, but my worry isn't just about the hormones and stuff they put in the cows but the fact it is frozen in a country,imported and frozen here who knows how old it is and if it got defrosted while being imported ect i think it is different if you buy it frozen but it is frozen in the country you buy it in


In this country the country source is listed. I would feed veal liver. As far as grocery store food is concerned, it is not so difficult to source the beef. I know exactly where my beef comes from. Look at the packaging. Talk to the meat department.

Not all grocery store beef is CAFO.

If you are Overfeeding liver, that is a concern. Liver supplies fat soluble vitamins.......and chicken liver as the only source Is also limiting.


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## nickiklaus (Dec 10, 2011)

magicre said:


> In this country the country source is listed. I would feed veal liver. As far as grocery store food is concerned, it is not so difficult to source the beef. I know exactly where my beef comes from. Look at the packaging. Talk to the meat department.
> 
> Not all grocery store beef is CAFO.
> 
> If you are Overfeeding liver, that is a concern. Liver supplies fat soluble vitamins.......and chicken liver as the only source Is also limiting.


Yes they say where it came from in Japan too, it says the veal liver's from Australia, but like i said my main worry (since my dog got sick) is that the liver could have gone bad while it was being imported it could have gotten defrosted for some time, it could be liver that is very old ect 
You said chicken liver is limiting ... what is wrong with chicken liver? :s


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## Sheltielover25 (Jan 18, 2011)

nickiklaus said:


> Ah i see, but my worry isn't just about the hormones and stuff they put in the cows but the fact it is frozen in a country,imported and frozen here who knows how old it is and if it got defrosted while being imported ect i think it is different if you buy it frozen but it is frozen in the country you buy it in


Uhhh you'd know if it was spoiled by the horrible smell. And why aren't you worried about hormones?!?!? That's more bothersome than rotten liver! I would feed mine rotten liver (you do realize dogs eat dead, rotten, old things?) than hormone filled meat... hormones=cancer. rotten liver for a dog=maybe a tummy ache. I fed my dogs some chicken that smelled so bad my girlfriend was gagging and they had no ill effects... dogs have an entirely different stomach in terms of acid that allows them to eat things we would get very sick from... ie. raw chicken, spoiled meat...


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## Sheltielover25 (Jan 18, 2011)

magicre said:


> As far as grocery store food is concerned, it is not so difficult to source the beef.


Yes, but do you know the diet it was fed? If it came from the store it's probably been fed genetically modified corn as well as genetically modified soy.... which causes lots of issues for dogs and humans.


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## nickiklaus (Dec 10, 2011)

Ok so the frozen veal liver in the store that has been imported there is no risk to feed it?
As for hormones, the whole hormones/grass fed beef thing it is on this forum that i have first heard of this in my entire life. In japan (atleast the part where i live) you do not know how the animal has been treated when you buy it in stores. (even if you ask the employee in the meat section).


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## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

Seriously, I wouldn't worry about liver thats imported from Australia. Australia will be exporting their best products, there's no way they'd be exporting inferior meat products, especially products aimed at the human market and risk their reputation or their countries export future.
I think I can safely say that there is an almost 100% chance that the Australian beef is what is called free range here (USA), or at the very least grass fed.
I get calf liver here, and veal liver (not that I agree whatsoever with how they treat the animals to get veal), purely because of what was mentioned above, the liver is the filtration plant of the cow's body. And, after reading about the Tyson chicken, there's no way I'll be buying that again either, free range from now on.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

Sheltielover25 said:


> Yes, but do you know the diet it was fed? If it came from the store it's probably been fed genetically modified corn as well as genetically modified soy.... which causes lots of issues for dogs and humans.


yes, actually i do. my beef comes from a ranch in oregon, where the cows are grass fed/grain finished with non gmo feed.

i have spoken to the people who own the ranch.....i have looked up the slaughtering facilities....

mostly my dogs eat grass fed/grass finished....but a little of what i get from the store won't hurt them.

and, believe me, i am not a gmo nor soy proponent for humans and beasties.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

MollyWoppy said:


> Seriously, I wouldn't worry about liver thats imported from Australia. Australia will be exporting their best products, there's no way they'd be exporting inferior meat products, especially products aimed at the human market and risk their reputation or their countries export future.
> I think I can safely say that there is an almost 100% chance that the Australian beef is what is called free range here (USA), or at the very least grass fed.
> I get calf liver here, and veal liver (not that I agree whatsoever with how they treat the animals to get veal), purely because of what was mentioned above, the liver is the filtration plant of the cow's body. And, after reading about the Tyson chicken, there's no way I'll be buying that again either, free range from now on.


i get lamb from australia and goat from new zealand. it's wonderful stuff.


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## Sheltielover25 (Jan 18, 2011)

magicre said:


> yes, actually i do. my beef comes from a ranch in oregon, where the cows are grass fed/grain finished with non gmo feed.
> 
> i have spoken to the people who own the ranch.....i have looked up the slaughtering facilities....
> 
> ...


Oh, I was referring to meat you buy in the store and locating where it came from, but not having any idea how it was raised. Your dogs are lucky  Love the Frenchies!!!


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

Sheltielover25 said:


> Oh, I was referring to meat you buy in the store and locating where it came from, but not having any idea how it was raised. Your dogs are lucky  Love the Frenchies!!!


Oh, don't make re mad...Bubba's a pug LOL Yes re and I both get that goat from Australia, the dogs love it..Not sure about her lamb, but I just had my dogs lamb butchered a local farm, I'd like to get a beef from them also but I'm literally filled to the gills in my freezers.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

now, don't be scarin' him, robin....LOL

sheltielover....robin and i are very similar....not a morsel passes the lips of our dogs without us knowing from where it is sourced....

we take raw to a whole different level LOL


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

Sheltielover25 said:


> Oh, I was referring to meat you buy in the store and locating where it came from, but not having any idea how it was raised. Your dogs are lucky  Love the Frenchies!!!


that's what i'm talking about. LOL...the meat i buy in a store.

many people cannot afford to buy grass fed/ grass finished beef.....i can't always either....

if i remember correctly, as a child i was raised on corn fed beef....and it was nummy....

farmers now use gmo corn and soy when they never used to use soy before...but it's cheaper than hay and it's well, cheaply grown and it's an inferiour product, american soy.

i am not a happy camper when fed soy, so i have to check, even if it means calling the source of the meat or the chicken or the pork that comes from a store.

my dogs are fed store bought ribs. i don't feed swift anymore, but i found a product called prairie, i think....

it takes me three hours to shop. labels are exhausting.


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## Sheltielover25 (Jan 18, 2011)

magicre said:


> now, don't be scarin' him, robin....LOL
> 
> sheltielover....robin and i are very similar....not a morsel passes the lips of our dogs without us knowing from where it is sourced....
> 
> we take raw to a whole different level LOL


OMG I'm so embarrassed! I should have known it was a pug! duhhh! Beautiful and adorable whatever he/she is 

I'm the same way! I do take it to another level as well but I also don't eat commercial meat so I would be really hypocritical to feed them that. I just know the diet they feed those animals can do a lot of harm... I just read a story about how soy and wheat are the main foods that cause seizures. (also dairy/sugar/artificial ingredients -- but those are eliminated through the feeding of raw meat-- whew!)


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## Sheltielover25 (Jan 18, 2011)

magicre said:


> that's what i'm talking about. LOL...the meat i buy in a store.
> 
> many people cannot afford to buy grass fed/ grass finished beef.....i can't always either....
> 
> ...


You seriously sound like me. I have been luckily enough since I live in a more rural state to be able to buy all my meat locally. I also buy all our veggies locally. Local (as in I go to their farm to get it) is really the only way I feel 100% safe. We're in the works of buying land so we will be able to raise our own food and then I'm hoping I'll never have to go to a grocery store again --haha!


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

Sheltielover25 said:


> You seriously sound like me. I have been luckily enough since I live in a more rural state to be able to buy all my meat locally. I also buy all our veggies locally. Local (as in I go to their farm to get it) is really the only way I feel 100% safe. We're in the works of buying land so we will be able to raise our own food and then I'm hoping I'll never have to go to a grocery store again --haha!


maybe we were twins separated by mothers, time, and gender. 

the soy that is grown here is crap. it takes me three hours to shop to try to find products that don't have soy in it. i'm not successful but it's at a minimum now.

i know that my meat has some soy in it and other grains for finishing, and i do eat it...mainly because i don't eat much of it.

my fish probably have mercury in it and i won't buy farmed...

and i know that my dogs are getting some products, that are sustainably raised, but let's face it, profits need to be made and in the winter, a vegetarian grain diet might be fed....

if the animal is raised and slaughtered humanely, with minimal antibiotics, no hormones....it's the meat of my childhood and i grew up just fine.

in doing research, i am finding that the grass grown on the pasture lands were ddt'd and arsenic'd back in the sixties and who knows what else....so there are toxins everywhere....from the top to the bottom to the water....

i just try to minimise the damage...but it doesn't stop me from eating tuna...that i buy fresh and cook it myself...

and it doesn't stop me from buying sardines for my dogs caught off the coast of california with all of those oil rigs....

i don't kid myself into thinking organic is organic....especially when arsenic is found in brown rice syrup from organic farmers who oops, didn't test their soil.

shoot. i have got to put this soap box away. LOL


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## nickiklaus (Dec 10, 2011)

Ok thank you all so much for the advice  
Sorry if i am being repetitive i just want to be sure so there is no risk of feeding the Veal liver , frozen and imported from australia even if above the organs in the frozen section it says '' do not eat organs raw '' ?


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## Sheltielover25 (Jan 18, 2011)

magicre said:


> maybe we were twins separated by mothers, time, and gender.


Actually, I'm a female... hahah!


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

nickiklaus said:


> Ok thank you all so much for the advice
> Sorry if i am being repetitive i just want to be sure so there is no risk of feeding the Veal liver , frozen and imported from australia even if above the organs in the frozen section it says '' do not eat organs raw '' ?


If it is frozen and imported from Australia, you cook it if YOU are going to eat it......but your dog gets slivers of it raw after she is stable.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

Sheltielover25 said:


> Actually, I'm a female... hahah!


oops. my bad. LOL.


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