# Super healthy Dog food



## krazikay (Nov 15, 2012)

I started feeding my dog this food after trying multiple types of dry dog food and all of them giving her digestive issues. This has been created after researching the healthiest ingredients to make sure she is getting proper complete nutrition. This made 1 week worth of meals for a 38lb dog, at 3/4-1cup servings 2x per day.

Suggestions please! First time doing this.

1/2 small pack of baby carrots chopped to bite size pieces
1-2 celery stalks chopped
1 broccoli stalk including stem chopped
1/2 bag of spinach
1 cup green beans chopped
1 1/2 cups brown rice cooked
1 lb ground meat (chicken,turkey,or lean beef. I buy whats on sale)
1 beef liver or other organ meat
1/4 cup apple sauce (make sure it's just pureed apple, no seasoning)
3/4 cup of pureed canned pumpkin
1/2 cup chicken stock
3 eggs with shells (dry and crush shells finely)

Steam all the veggies until tender, set aside. 
Cook and drain the ground meat. Place back in pan and mix in your apple sauce and 1/2 cup of puree pumpkin. Set aside. Cut liver into bite size pieces, cook and add to ground meat mixture. Add eggs and ground shells.

Mix cooked rice,meat mixture, steamed veggies and raw apple pieces together. 
Heat up chicken broth in pan and whisk in remaining 1/4 cup of pumpkin to thicken. Pour into meat and veggies and mix together. 

Your dog will love it!


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## SaharaNight Boxers (Jun 28, 2011)

I don't believe this is balanced. I wouldn't feed this to my dog long term.


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## kathylcsw (Jul 31, 2011)

1 pound of meat for a 44 lb dog for one week seems awfully light to me. I would think a dog that size would need way more meat to have adequate protein in its diet.


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## DaViking (Sep 27, 2011)

That is approximately 17g of protein per day for a 40lb dog, 13g less than NRC recommendations.


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

Thats almost no meat, and lots of pretty useless veggies/fruits for the most part. If you want to fix food at home yourself, why not try raw? Lots of folks here who can help you and answer questions.


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## lauren43 (Feb 6, 2011)

Thats a lot of veggies! And milk, eeks! Your dog must have an iron gut, mine would definitely have some explosive diarrhea...


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## Celt (Dec 27, 2010)

personally, i would cut the veg/rice amount in half, increase the meat portion (with added organ meats and bone meal) to at least 2 lbs and get rid of the applesauce. i do believe that dogs should be fed meat heavy foods because it is easier for most dog systems to get nutrients from meats. i also think that the veg and "grain" should be changed up often to give a greater variety to full filll nutritional needs.


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## krazikay (Nov 15, 2012)

Agreed. Shes actually 37-38 pounds. Added egg to the recipe to supplement protein. Dogs dont need a lot of protein. To much is actually hard on there kidneys. Also instead of milk, I added plain yogurt which has protein and probiotics for digestion. That recipe was just a start, first attempt.


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## krazikay (Nov 15, 2012)

If u look up the healthiest fruits and veg, all of the ones ive included are good for dogs. Some I felt were useless too like celery but it's actually good for them. To get all the vitamins and minerals there has to b a variety. U only get certain things from each vegetable.


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## krazikay (Nov 15, 2012)

Yea, I switched the milk for plain yogurt. They need calcium too!


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## krazikay (Nov 15, 2012)

Dogs dont need alot of protein, to much is hard on there kidneys. My dog is very high energy and to make sure she gets enough vitamins and minerals I included lots of veg. Apple sauce provides vitamin c/ fiber.


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## doggiedad (Jan 23, 2011)

i would eat this in a nano second. i prefer fresh veggies.



krazikay said:


> I started feeding my dog this food after trying multiple types of dry dog food and all of them giving her digestive issues. This has been created after researching the healthiest ingredients to make sure she is getting proper complete nutrition. This made 1 week worth of meals for a 38lb dog, at 3/4-1cup servings 2x per day.
> Please note that my dog requires more daily fibre due to digestive issues so there is alot of vegetables plus rice is the only grain she can eat, its the easiest to digest. Suggestions please! First time doing this.
> 
> 3/4 small pack of baby carrots chopped to bite size pieces
> ...


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## Georgiapeach (Jan 24, 2011)

krazikay said:


> Yea, I switched the milk for plain yogurt. They need calcium too!


Give the shell (wash them out, let dry, then crush them up finely) along with the eggs. They contain calcium, I believe.


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## doggiedad (Jan 23, 2011)

when i give my dog an egg shell i take the egg out of the shell. let the shell dry.
i bake the shell. once it's done i put the shell in the coffee grinder. it grinds
to the consistency of granulated garlic.

QUOTE=Georgiapeach;226304]Give the shell (wash them out, let dry, then crush them up finely) along with the eggs. They contain calcium, I believe.[/QUOTE]


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## Kat (Jul 12, 2011)

krazikay said:


> I started feeding my dog this food after trying multiple types of dry dog food and all of them giving her digestive issues. This has been created after researching the healthiest ingredients to make sure she is getting proper complete nutrition. This made 1 week worth of meals for a 38lb dog, at 3/4-1cup servings 2x per day.
> Please note that my dog requires more daily fibre due to digestive issues so there is alot of vegetables plus rice is the only grain she can eat, its the easiest to digest. Suggestions please! First time doing this.
> 
> 3/4 small pack of baby carrots chopped to bite size pieces
> ...


Yikes, I do not think this is balanced. Way too much veg and grain, not enough meat. This recipe reminds me of a knock off version of the Hilary's Blend you can get at a vets office. 

Also, the calcium in milk products is not compatible with either humans or dogs. Yogurt alone will not fulfill the daily calcium requirements. And without enough meat you may end up throwing off the calcium to phosphorus ratio. 

If I were you I would revise this meal plan. And if you are not comfortable doing raw, I would add some of The Honest Kitchen dehydrated raw, because they add some of the vitamins and minerals. Or find a high quality supplement.


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

yikes. 
I applaud you for feeding home prepared food! That's wonderful that you care enough to recognize that commercial foods are simply not even comparable to a REAL food diet. However, I do think it's a bit heavy on the veg, and lacking a few main components. 
Dogs, being opportunistic carnivores, are able to extract nutrients from plant matter to a degree, but their entire bodies are much more compatible with animal products, and those are so much more easily digested. 
For calcium, I'd swap the yogurt (most dogs do not tolerate lactose well anyway) for egg shells, bone meal, or (better yet) raw bones. 
Also, Liver is a HUGE bang when it comes to nutrients. It offers Vitamin A, Vitamin D, all B vitamins, Iron, Phosphorous, and more. It's best fed raw, but cooked will still offer advantages, especially if you include the liquid it cooks in.
Heart is high in zinc and important amino acids.
Kidney is a great source for riboflavin, trace minerals, and B12.
By replacing a chunk of your vegetable matter with these more species-appropriate foods you're offering more biologically available nutrients to your pet, which is so much easier on the digestive system! I personally greatly prefer to feed a raw diet, but home-cooked can be so healthy and well-balanced and meet a dog's nutritional needs FAR better than kibble.


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## krazikay (Nov 15, 2012)

Thanks to everyone who gave helpful suggestions! It's difficult to know exactly what to include when there's so much contradictory information about home made dog food. It's been a week and lexus is finally having consistent proper bowl movements! Next batch will include the suggestions from a few helpful people. Next recipe I will post for feedback. I just want whats best for her


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## DaViking (Sep 27, 2011)

CorgiPaws said:


> ...animal products, and those are so much more easily digested.
> ...which is so much easier on the digestive system!


No. When I see ppl talk about "hunger pukes" I shake my head. Call it what you want but there are no such thing as "hunger pukes" Ultimately it doesn't matter, the dog pukes because something is up with the diet, barring the dog eating something he/she shouldn't have eaten of course. A dog will ultimately throw up bile when there is an excess of acid produced by an improperly balanced meat heavy diet. Meat require lots of acid to be digested, starch requires close to zero acid production. If a dog frequently throw up bile the worst thing you can do is to give your dog a meat snack because you think he/she is hungry. Sure it will temporarily stop the barfing but it will also cause the stomach acidity to go down (yet again) towards battery acid levels. A dogs stomach lining can sustain ultra low acid levels for a short period but if it is more or less a constant state damage will slowly occur. Some like to bring in the wolf as an example. A wolf do not get fed a constant stream of meats. It can take a long time until he/she eats again so a constant state of dangerously low acid levels is not an issue for wild wolfs.




CorgiPaws said:


> I'd swap the yogurt (most dogs do not tolerate lactose well anyway)


I agree, get rid of the yogurt. However, lactose is a matter of reduced digestion due to poor production of an enzyme called lactase. The intolerance have nothing to do with lactose but rather a reaction to proteins found in dairy. Two separate issues.


The OP is on the right way but there is still lots to tweak to make this balanced. But, in my opinion, a home cooked diet like this is better choice for most dogs than a strict prey based raw diet.

Good luck with with your formulation krazikay :smile:


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

krazikay said:


> Dogs dont need alot of protein, to much is hard on there kidneys. My dog is very high energy and to make sure she gets enough vitamins and minerals I included lots of veg. Apple sauce provides vitamin c/ fiber.



Raw really isn't real high in protein because of the water content. When raw is fed in a variety of meat,bones and organs you don't need all the veggies, apple sauce etc.....Raw in variety supplies all the nutrients needed. With the exception of the omegas, unless you feed all grass fed meats only. If not you will need to add fish oil. But that's it.


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## SaharaNight Boxers (Jun 28, 2011)

DaViking said:


> No. When I see ppl talk about "hunger pukes" I shake my head. Call it what you want but there are no such thing as "hunger pukes" Ultimately it doesn't matter, the dog pukes because something is up with the diet, barring the dog eating something he/she shouldn't have eaten of course. A dog will ultimately throw up bile when there is an excess of acid produced by an improperly balanced meat heavy diet. Meat require lots of acid to be digested, starch requires close to zero acid production. If a dog frequently throw up bile the worst thing you can do is to give your dog a meat snack because you think he/she is hungry. Sure it will temporarily stop the barfing but it will also cause the stomach acidity to go down (yet again) towards battery acid levels. A dogs stomach lining can sustain ultra low acid levels for a short period but if it is more or less a constant state damage will slowly occur. Some like to bring in the wolf as an example. A wolf do not get fed a constant stream of meats. It can take a long time until he/she eats again so a constant state of dangerously low acid levels is not an issue for wild wolfs.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have to admit I found this interesting. Duke has never had a hunger puke while on raw. The only thing I can think of why is because his grinds (I feed Blue Ridge Beef) might be a bit more than 10% bone. I also have to admit I'd be scared if Duke threw up bile. 

I also say I feed to PMR standards, but not completely strict PMR. I do believe supplements are needed as we can't truly recreate a wolf's diet and farming today is not carefully monitored so nutrients are not in the meat to the levels that a dog might need. So I'm adding in an alfalfa/kelp mix as a multi vitamin and mineral. Along with that, Boxers can have a lot of health problems so I'm adding in supplements needed for his breed that I believe will help him such as the kelp.


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## Kat (Jul 12, 2011)

My adult pug gets hunger pukes once in a while. She got it in the beginning of raw, until I upped her intake, and then it stopped... She just wasn't getting enough food. Now, she hunger pukes once in a while, it's very rare that she does. Usually she does a little hunger puke in the morning if she ate a turkey neck the night before, and she will throw up a little piece of bone that didn't digest.

I recently started supplementing, since I don't get all grass fed meats. I use bioage biopreperation f2+. It contains 3 different algaes. 

I tried home cooking in between kibble to raw transition. I did it for a month and then switched to raw, I was not happy with my pugs teeth on home cooked, they were getting too dirty. Also, my pug can't handle veggies in her diet, it made her really gassy, and it made her have big messy poops.


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## Gally (Jan 28, 2012)

I can't say my experience correlates with what you are saying DaViking. My last dog was fed Iams her whole life, which I think is fairly low in meat content at least comparatively and had "hunger pukes" at various times throughout her life. 
Gally used to get hunger pukes while eating kibble (Acana and Blue Buffalo Wilderness) but hasn't had any since the first month of being fed a prey model diet (now 7 months in).


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## DaViking (Sep 27, 2011)

Kat said:


> I tried home cooking in between kibble to raw transition. I did it for a month and then switched to raw, I was not happy with my pugs teeth on home cooked, they were getting too dirty. Also, my pug can't handle veggies in her diet, it made her really gassy, and it made her have big messy poops.


Home cooking takes a lot of effort and knowledge to get right.


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## Kat (Jul 12, 2011)

DaViking said:


> Home cooking takes a lot of effort and knowledge to get right.


Yeah, I'm not arguing that, I completely agree. Home cooking was not for me and my dog. I found it difficult, and incredibly time consuming.


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## DaViking (Sep 27, 2011)

Gally said:


> I can't say my experience correlates with what you are saying DaViking. My last dog was fed Iams her whole life, which I think is fairly low in meat content at least comparatively and had "hunger pukes" at various times throughout her life.
> Gally used to get hunger pukes while eating kibble (Acana and Blue Buffalo Wilderness) but hasn't had any since the first month of being fed a prey model diet (now 7 months in).


I would puke to if I was fed Iams my whole life :smile: Hunger pukes doesn't exist and what you are saying contradicts what's offered as an "explanation" on the PMR website, if you wanna call it an explanation :smile: Obviously individual dogs can puke for all kinds of reasons, including kibble issues, but that doesn't change the fact that a meat heavy diet will cause much more acid produced compared to home cooked, canned or kibble. In some dogs this will manifest itself by puking bile. Dogs who do not puke bile could still have acid issues on a meat heavy diet.


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## Celt (Dec 27, 2010)

DaViking said:


> Hunger pukes doesn't exist.


I have to say that I disagree with this comment. I've own many dogs and a small handful would puke if not fed "on time". The reason why I try not to feed on a schedule now. My boy, Blaise is hypoglycemic. When he hasn't eaten enough, he will puke. If I make sure that he gets the "correct" amount of food, there is no puking. As I've stated before, I feed lots of foods. It doesn't matter if it's meat or kibble, if he doesn't eat "enough", I will be cleaning up foamy, yellow puke.


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## DaViking (Sep 27, 2011)

Celt said:


> I have to say that I disagree with this comment. I've own many dogs and a small handful would puke if not fed "on time". The reason why I try not to feed on a schedule now. My boy, Blaise is hypoglycemic. When he hasn't eaten enough, he will puke. If I make sure that he gets the "correct" amount of food, there is no puking. As I've stated before, I feed lots of foods. It doesn't matter if it's meat or kibble, if he doesn't eat "enough", I will be cleaning up foamy, yellow puke.


As I said, dogs can puke for many reasons. The whole point is to not trivialize it and pretend it is nothing to worry about by calling it "hunger pukes". If your dog will puke next time around and next time around if not fed means something is wrong, not that his stomach is empty and he's hungry. Acid levels from a prey type raw diet is one of the flaws (note, a flaw, not saying it's wrong) of feeding PMR to domestic dogs that are in a vastly different situation than wild canids. Improper acid balance is one of the biggest cause of recurring puking bile. Digestion of meat is a big contributor, for some it's a combination of several things coming together.


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## Gally (Jan 28, 2012)

Did a bit of research and I believe what we are actually talking about is bilious vomiting syndrome. From what I can find, the exact cause is not 100% known at this point but it is generally agreed that a build up of bile in the stomach between meals irritates the digestive system and causes puking. The recommended treatment is to feed smaller but more frequent meals, especially an extra meal before bed. 

I understand that the stomach acids in a dogs stomach are much more acidic than a kibble fed dog but this doesn't explain why dogs on all types of diets from very low in meat content to full prey model raw have been reported to have this syndrome. Could you link to me to an article about the link between high acidity in raw fed dogs stomachs and vomiting or erosion of the digestive tract?


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## Roo (Oct 17, 2010)

> Obviously individual dogs can puke for all kinds of reasons, including kibble issues, but that doesn't change the fact that a meat heavy diet will cause much more acid produced compared to home cooked, canned or kibble. In some dogs this will manifest itself by puking bile. Dogs who do not puke bile could still have acid issues on a meat heavy diet.
> 
> Acid levels from a prey type raw diet is one of the flaws (note, a flaw, not saying it's wrong) of feeding PMR to domestic dogs that are in a vastly different situation than wild canids. Improper acid balance is one of the biggest cause of recurring puking bile. Digestion of meat is a big contributor, for some it's a combination of several things coming together.


Is it a flaw or is it "normal" for a dog to have the lower PH and that most kibbles with higher carbohydrate amounts create an unnormal higher PH level?

If bile is bound by increased fiber intake not allowing reabsorbtion by the small intestine, wouldn't the liver have to produce more bile essentially? Wouldn't this mean a higher bile production with kibble vs raw? Yes raw contains fiber (bone) and for those feeding BARF (the added veggies and fruit) but my guess is it's usually less than what's found in most kibbles.
flowsheetnotes.htm 



> I would have to agree with this. Early in the morning after eating raw my dog has a bile puke. It is not hunger as I feed a 1/2-3/4 pound turkey neck or a 3/4 pound chicken quarter. She is 40 pounds and this should constitute as an entire meal for her (so I am surmising that it is not hunger).
> So her feeding schedule is as follows: 1/2-3/4 cup of kibble in the morning at 8:30-9am and then a turkey neck or chicken quarter at 7-8 pm in the evening. She gets her hunger pukes before I get up in the morning so I would guess from 5-6 am. Notice she gets her "hunger pukes" after she has eaten raw and NOT after eating the kibble...


Maybe because you're feeding both raw and kibble, so your dog's PH levels can't adjust properly with the constant switch between higher and lower acidic meals and bile production by the liver, so it can't produce enough bicarbonate with the raw meals to neutralize the acidity of the stomach contents and the fiber in the bone in meals along with the fiber consumed in the dry food on a regular basis are creating more bile to be produced? 

When I experienced "hunger pukes" with one of my dogs it seemed to be caused by undigested bone still sitting in the digestive tract several hours later after eating her raw dinner. Incidentally when I stopped feeding bone in meals or bone heavy meals at dinner time and fed them only as morning meals, the 4 or 5 am hunger pukes stopped happening. For my dogs there is longer time between dinner and breakfast than there is between breakfast and dinner as far as feeding times.


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## DaViking (Sep 27, 2011)

Roo said:


> Is it a flaw or is it "normal" for a dog to have the lower PH and that most kibbles with higher carbohydrate amounts create an unnormal higher PH level?
> 
> If bile is bound by increased fiber intake not allowing reabsorbtion by the small intestine, wouldn't the liver have to produce more bile essentially? Wouldn't this mean a higher bile production with kibble vs raw? Yes raw contains fiber (bone) and for those feeding BARF (the added veggies and fruit) but my guess is it's usually less than what's found in most kibbles.


Vomiting is incredible multi faceted. Reading the literature you will find more hypothesis, theories and speculation than in any other area. The "flaw" isn't a normal state of lower pH but rather how much more ultra low gastric acid need to be produced many times per day to handle the protein content from raw meat, compared to wild canids. For the record, newer high protein grain *in* kibble formulas (old formulas too but there the protein is more restricted) also result in a lower pH in the stomach. Based on experience I question how appropriate this is for a large number of dogs. In terms of "flaws" my baseline is wild canids and trust me when I say I believe kibble have more than it's fair share too :smile:

There was a raw advocate Dr here who I forgot the name of that had an interesting theory based on anticipation and digestive "programming" Have nothing to do with hunger, rate of digestion or residual "gunk" from kibble. You can speculate that this anticipation kickstarts the pancreas and the liver and stomach acidity will start to adjust downwards before anything is there.


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## Roo (Oct 17, 2010)

> The "flaw" isn't a normal state of lower pH but rather how much more ultra low gastric acid need to be produced many times per day to handle the protein content from raw meat, compared to wild canids. For the record, newer high protein grain *in* kibble formulas also result in a lower pH in the stomach. Based on experience I question how appropriate this is for a large number of dogs. In terms of "flaws" my baseline is wild canids and trust me kibble have more than it's fair share too


I'd be curious to see the PH numbers on all of this and what your definition of ultra low PH is, the numbers I'm reading from vets is a PH of 2 is "normal" and most kibble fed dogs are usually higher, with the PH being needed to be at least 4 or under for protein, I believe. It talks about all of this in the link I provided.


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## DaViking (Sep 27, 2011)

Roo said:


> I'd be curious to see the PH numbers on all of this and what you're definition of ultra low PH is, the numbers I'm reading from vets is a PH of 2 is "normal" and most kibble fed dogs are usually higher, with the PH being needed to be at least 4 or under for protein, I believe. It talks about all of this in the link I provided.


The gastric pH of dogs can reach as low as 0.5pH during the first 30 minutes, mean in some studies is 2, in others 1.08. Battery acid is below 1 so 0.5 would be ultra low and lots of mucous have to be produced in order to protect the stomach.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/4026035
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19177514
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7189099


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## Roo (Oct 17, 2010)

Thanks, now can you share the research on the PH numbers specifically recorded for raw fed dogs vs kibble fed, and can you share some studies/information showing any damage or issues with the recorded low PH numbers for raw fed dogs? Or were you just giving an unproven opinion/theory on the PH levels of high protein raw diets?


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## DaViking (Sep 27, 2011)

Roo said:


> Thanks, now can you share the research on the PH numbers specifically recorded for raw fed dogs vs kibble fed


You know perfectly well there is close to no worthwhile studies done on raw, let alone production of gastric acids in raw fed dogs.



Roo; said:


> , and can you share some studies/information showing any damage or issues with the recorded low PH numbers for raw fed dogs?


Again, why do you ask when you know the answer? There is no studies to my knowledge showing damage in raw fed dogs as a result of low pH values. Nor have I claimed this is a sweeping problem. 



Roo; said:


> Or were you just giving an unproven opinion/theory on the PH levels of high protein raw diets?


That's a grand sentiment coming from a raw feeder, I'll make a mental note of your standards. Tell you what. I first made a long reply explaining in detail why this is more than an "unproven opinion" and how it is drawn from a combination of what we already know about canine digestion, bile and mucous production and almost 25 years of successfully helping dogs ranging from indoor lap dogs to Iditarod winners with their diet challenges. You are welcome to disregard everything.

Gally is on to something for a subset of cases. Question is, what's the underlying cause? No one will sign off on anything.


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## Roo (Oct 17, 2010)

Daviking, clearly I should have written my post a little differently so as not to be misunderstood, I apologize. 

I was actually serious when asking for studies/information etc. on the subject, studies come out all the time don't they? You did mention that that you thought not only raw but higher protein kibbles as possibly causing PH issues, while I agree raw studies are almost non existent, I think there are nutritional studies done using kibble. I know you have a lot of knowledge on dog nutrition, and was seriously asking if you had come across some info on it, something that points in the direction of your (now known) theory. 

What does specifically being a raw feeder have to do with unproven theories or opinions? I've always been under the impression that unproven theories and opinions exist in dog nutrition in general as a whole not just in raw feeding or kibble feeding etc. When did an "unproven opinion or theory" get such a negative meaning? I thought it just meant that the theory or opinion presented was as it states, just unproven, nothing more.

You said once in a post to me _"First of all, kudos for actually taking the time to provide some meaningful background for your arguments, not to mention to add value regardless of view. More should follow your example if they think their claims could be remotely controversial."_

I'm not sure about my standards, but I think I was just asking if you could provide some meaningful background for your position, that's all.


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## Roo (Oct 17, 2010)

Ok, went back and reread your explanation and found Dr. Brady's posts on stomach acid with feeding raw/high protein diets.



> A dog will ultimately throw up bile when there is an excess of acid produced by an improperly balanced meat heavy diet. Meat require lots of acid to be digested, starch requires close to zero acid production. If a dog frequently throw up bile the worst thing you can do is to give your dog a meat snack because you think he/she is hungry. Sure it will temporarily stop the barfing but it will also cause the stomach acidity to go down (yet again) towards battery acid levels. A dogs stomach lining can sustain ultra low acid levels for a short period but if it is more or less a constant state damage will slowly occur. Some like to bring in the wolf as an example. A wolf do not get fed a constant stream of meats. It can take a long time until he/she eats again so a constant state of dangerously low acid levels is not an issue for wild wolfs.


I think I have a better understanding of where your theory is coming from, but still have some questions.

This is the part I'm confused about. . .


> A dogs stomach lining can sustain ultra low acid levels for a short period but if it is more or less a constant state damage will slowly occur.


In order for a dog to vomit due to over production of bile from a meat heavy diet, wouldn't it occur fairly soon after eating and not like 8 hours later if digestion with raw happens more quickly and the PH can only remain at low levels for 5 hours? 

If the PH levels are only low for 5 hours or so, and there are a large amount of time each day in which the dog's stomach acid PH goes back up, how is that a constant state of extremely low battery acid levels? 

What about the mucous, it seems to be indicated that the stomach with the mucous lining can handle the low stomach acid and be protected as Dr. Brady points out, it's the small intestines that can't handle the low acid and are usually protected by the release of bicarbonate to inactivate pepsin levels. It's been suggested in the link I provided in earlier posts that the ability for a dog to produce bicarbonate is adaptable in time with the change in diet acidity. *If it is adaptable, if being key, then I don't see the issue with the low PH levels and potential damage with high protein diets.

I'm wondering this because of Dr. Brady's statements.
http://dogfoodchat.com/forum/raw-feeding/1857-stomach-acid-ph-raw-fed-dogs-3.html

_"At it's most acidic (during digestion) the dog's gut can reach below pH1.0, equivalent to car battery acid, a level it can remain at for 5 hours (Itoh et al. 1980, Sagawa et al., 2009). Youngberg et al. (1985) found the average gastric pH of dogs ranges from pH1.5 ranging to pH2.1 a couple of hours after consuming a meal, when gastric juices would be in full flow. At this sort of acidity a meat and bone is rapidly broken down, often reduced to chyme within an hour (Lonsdale, 2001)."_

_"Great quantities of mucous protect the dog from doing itself damage. Post-digestion the stomach will abruptly change to neutral, presumably to neutralise the corrosive acid before it hits the duodenum and intestines that are less equipped to withstand the corrosive power of a pH1 acid broth."_

Another thing I was wondering, if meat requires more stomach acid production in order to be digested, and water reduces stomach acid pretty quickly, would the high water content in raw affect the HCL amounts?


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## servant_hugi (Oct 28, 2013)

you used too much veggie!! switched


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## LeonilCraig (Oct 7, 2013)

Many people love to lavish food treats on their dogs: bacon and cheese snacks, pig ears, and an endless stream of table scraps. But all those indulgences come at a hefty price. Before Fido turns fat, it may be time to consider healthy dog treats. Great ideas!


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## lauren43 (Feb 6, 2011)

LeonilCraig said:


> Many people love to lavish food treats on their dogs: bacon and cheese snacks, pig ears, and an endless stream of table scraps. But all those indulgences come at a hefty price. Before Fido turns fat, it may be time to consider healthy dog treats. Great ideas!


While this is a great thread. Please refrain from bringing back multiple threads from the dead.


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## kyleharlan123 (Nov 19, 2013)

I use pedgree food for my dog but many time he rejected the food, I cant understand why he behave like that, is he ll or having other problem please suggest me..... THanks


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## kyleharlan123 (Nov 19, 2013)

I didnt get any idea please suggest me...


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## bett (Mar 15, 2012)

krazikay said:


> Dogs dont need alot of protein, to much is hard on there kidneys. My dog is very high energy and to make sure she gets enough vitamins and minerals I included lots of veg. Apple sauce provides vitamin c/ fiber.


who said? 

if you want to home cook properly , (in my opinion, your percentages are off-way off) get a good book (lew olson comes to mind-raw and natural nutrition for dogs) and follow some of their suggestions.

and i home cook a liver support diet for my oldest lab who has /had liver issues from toxic food.


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## Celt (Dec 27, 2010)

Most here believe that pedigree is a pretty "bad" food. I don't like pedigree very much. It's had problems with its food having foreign objects in it (plastic mostly). Your pup might not want to eat because he's full or just doesn't want to eat that food if he doesn't have to (as in he's not hungry enough to be "forced" into eating it). Personally, I would feed a different brand of food, but then again I am a big proponent of feeding a variety of foods.


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## LeonilCraig (Oct 7, 2013)

I'm making home made foods for our dogs also but not with a lot of vegetables always. Because they will just eat it for 1-2 days only.


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## Dr Dolittle (Aug 2, 2013)

The danger here, as many have kinda said, is you have absolutely no idea of the actual nutrient levels you are feeding. You could be feeding way too much protein or worse phosphorus, too litttle calcium, even omitting many micro nutrients like minerals and vitamins. Its the perfect example of great ingredients but perhaps very harmful nutrient levels. I know none of us trust food companies much, for good reason usually, but I still think its better to choose a company with real research and actual nutritionists and chemists, and decide among them. If we really are interested in using nutrition to proactively keep our pets healthy and reduce those age related diseases like heart and kidney issues, home recipes can be dangerous.


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## Dogstar (Jan 1, 2016)

I recommend this Pet Nutrition app. It helps you to optimize the amount of food you should give your dogs. It also monitors their weight and gives you feeding tips depending on the health status of your dogs.


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## cuddles (Jan 6, 2016)

I love that you've decided to prepare your dog's food yourself. But, as others have mentioned this recipe is certainly not balanced.

It's difficult to really provide balanced nutrition in each meal. The process of rotating recipes and ensuring your dog gets all the necessary nutrition is quite complicated. If you want to cook for your dog, I highly recommend you pick up a reputable book which provides precise recipes and has some assurance that the diet is balanced (AAFCO or NRC). The recipes themselves are not what I complicated, but the rotation and ingredient potions.


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## Pet luxury (Apr 8, 2016)

try calcium milk bones to fulfil calcium need in diet


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## Honedge (Sep 27, 2016)

Ok, my dogs ain't vegans, so... not interested in this recipe


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## BarbaraKnapp (Dec 29, 2016)

Is this really helpful? I mean does it has the proper amount of supplements that a dog needs?


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## URWhatUEat (Sep 29, 2020)

So any opinions welcome on a homemade batch I recently made: 30% Meat(chicken hearts/fish), 30% Veg(sweet potato, okra, squash, cabbage, ginger, turmeric, carrot), 30% Beans(black, lentils, rice), 10% kelp and powdered eggshells. Half the veg cooked, half raw, if interested-


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## patischof (Oct 26, 2021)

Yes, my Yorkie also has gastrointestinal problems if I give him dog food. And I will try the recipe you shared, and I hope my dog finally regains his stomach and will not constantly vomit. When by the way, my dog got sick, I decided to go to the vet. And he, in turn, advised me to give my dog special supplements and vitamins to strengthen the immune system and better work the stomach. After all, for sure, many people know that Yorks often have problems with the gastrointestinal tract. So I decided to read about vitamins and supplements on Google and came across this site Ruff Hero. I didn't even know that many supplements are beneficial to our pets.


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## dogzgroomer (6 mo ago)

This was a fantastic recipe! I have tried so many different *dog foods *that cost me a lot of money and my dog wouldn’t eat any of them. He loved both the turkey and beef dishes he made. Can’t thank you enough for creating this wonderful dog food recipe.


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