# New dog food for a dog with allergies??



## Kassandra (Jun 6, 2012)

Before I write this I would like it if nobody would criticize me for what I am currently feeding Charlie.. I needed a quick fix and this was the only food that she wasn't having a reaction to. I would also like to apologize for how longgggggg it is.

Charlie has severe allergies to chicken. In it's kibble form, cooked form and raw form. She breaks out in a rash everywhere and has an upset stomach for a day or two even after eating the slightest amount. Her skin completely drys out which causes her to scratch scratch scratch. She loses clumps (and i mean tumbleweeds just fall right off her) of fur if she eats it for long enough. (I didn't know this was the allergy at first, I don't feed it to her just to see what happens lol) She does better on a food with no grains, I have noticed when she is fed grains her skin drys out, she sheds a lot more, and she is more sensitive to the environmental allergies she has.

Charlie was fed kibble as a pup, then I switched to raw at around a year old. She was completely raw for around 4 months but I just couldn't afford it any more, in my area it turned out to be way more expensive than kibble, so back to kibble it was, with a few meals of raw a week. Now the raw is completely cut out as I am in some financial difficulty and couldn't even afford that. Now that her allergies have flared up again (she was eating the new pups food which contains chicken) I am set on finding a food that will be perfect for her, no matter the cost. I have tried the more expensive foods allergy formulas to no avail. Right now she is eating Purina One Lamb and Rice formula (yes I know this is one of the worst foods everrrrrr) and giving her fish oil to compensate for the dry skin problems. 

All that being said, she has a gut made of cast iron.. nothing besides what she is allergic to makes her sick. Her stools are always perfect, she does well in almost every aspect on every food. The only thing we have problems with is her skin drying out which in turn makes her itchy and makes her shed a ton more than usual. She is a super energetic dog that I have a LOT of trouble keeping weight on. 

Again.. sorry this is sooooo long winded but I reallly need help! Seeing your dogs uncomfortable is so hard but IMO it is that much worse when it is your heart dog.


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## SaharaNight Boxers (Jun 28, 2011)

What all is she allergic to? Have you gotten her tested?


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## monster'sdad (Jul 29, 2012)

I would try a red meat formula without any egg or even chicken fat for that matter, even though chicken fat should have zero chicken protein.

Annamaet Manitok and Evo Red Meat are the only ones I would use. Most others are "faux" red meat foods with chicken or turkey tucked in somewhere. Annamaet Manitok has some herring but I would still try it because it is very simple. Evo Red Meat is a nice food too but it is high in fat and not as well rounded as Manitok. Manitok has tested ash of about 7.5% which is impressive for a red meat food with 30% protein.

Either one is worth a shot.

Ooooops forget Evo Red Meat, has egg in it.


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## Kassandra (Jun 6, 2012)

She is allergic to chicken, has slight problems with grains. She hasn't been tested but our vet has told us that testing for food allergies doesn't always work and she agrees with me that Charlie is definitely allergic to Chicken.


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## Kassandra (Jun 6, 2012)

monster'sdad said:


> I would try a red meat formula without any egg or even chicken fat for that matter, even though chicken fat should have zero chicken protein.
> 
> Annamaet Manitok and Evo Red Meat are the only ones I would use. Most others are "faux" red meat foods with chicken or turkey tucked in somewhere. Annamaet Manitok has some herring but I would still try it because it is very simple. Evo Red Meat is a nice food too but it is high in fat and not as well rounded as Manitok. Manitok has tested ash of about 7.5% which is impressive for a red meat food with 30% protein.


Thanks, I will check them out.


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## Georgiapeach (Jan 24, 2011)

You may want to try an LID kibble. I feed my allergy dog a fish based food. Right now, she's eating Evo Herring and Salmon (grain and potato free), which has no chicken in it. I'm experimenting with transitioning her to California Natural Salmon Meal & Peas Formula (also chicken free), b/c it's cheaper and lower in protein - 28%. Evo is insanely high in protein - 42%, and it has a price tag to go with it! My daughter feeds her sensitive yorkie-poo Natural Balance LID Potato and Fish successfully (also Potato and Bison), but it's a bit low in protein and high in carbs for my taste (21%).


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## monster'sdad (Jul 29, 2012)

Kassandra said:


> Thanks, I will check them out.


EVO red meat has eggs, sorry. 

Another is Verus Opticoat, not red meat but a quality fish-based food.

If you try Manitok I would not supplement fish oil.


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## SaharaNight Boxers (Jun 28, 2011)

Natures Variety LID might be an option. I believe they don't use eggs or chicken and they are grain free.


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## Kassandra (Jun 6, 2012)

I like how Natures Variety LID Lamb Formula looks but the fat looks a little low for Charlie at 18%. I like higher fat content as it is easier to keep weight on Charlie with. 

I also like how Natures Variety Beef Formula (also has lamb) looks though it does contain chicken eggs but they are wayy down the list. She hasn't ever had a problem with eggs though so should I try this out? Or would it be a better idea to cut them out anyways just in case???

Manitok and Verus Opicoat both looks great but I can't get them here unfortunately.


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## Sheltielover25 (Jan 18, 2011)

Hey do you have access to NAture's Logic? they have a venison version that doesn't have eggs...they have a few others, too that might work!

Nature's Logic

over 55% animal products and no synthetic vitamins which I love! I've talked to the company and everything is sourced here in the US and they'll tell you who they get their meat from even. My cat did great on it and I really love the company...plus I found it to be really affordable where I'm at.

Oh, darn! It has millet in it which is a grain... darn, this is tough LOL


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## Kassandra (Jun 6, 2012)

Sheltielover25 said:


> Hey do you have access to NAture's Logic?


There is one store here that carries it and they are a little unpredictable with what they order/have in stock. I wouldn't want to be out of food and them not get an order in for another few weeks.


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## Sheltielover25 (Jan 18, 2011)

Kassandra said:


> There is one store here that carries it and they are a little unpredictable with what they order/have in stock. I wouldn't want to be out of food and them not get an order in for another few weeks.


Yeah, that makes sense! I order a lot online so I'm finding I have to worry about this less and less... but even then I seem to forget to put my order in and end up panicking! Mine is a cat I'm feeding, but she's not senstive like your little guy, thankfully.

I hope you find something that works. Canned food seems like it has less overall in it so you might look into that. Bummer meat is so expensive so raw doesn't work  I hate that sometimes the best things are priced so high we can't afford them!


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## riddick4811 (Nov 2, 2011)

Casper has been eating Victor Yukon for the past 6 weeks and doing pretty good on it. It is grain free, and uses salmon and ocean fish. He is allergic to chicken too. Victor Super Premium Dog Food

You can buy it online at rocketpetz.com


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## SaharaNight Boxers (Jun 28, 2011)

NRG Maxim might work. It's still 18% fat, but it has 500 kcals a cup which should help with keeping weight. It's a dehydrated food instead of kibble though. Depending it could get expensive. NRG Dog Food Products | Natural Dog Food | Dehydrated Dog Food | Raw Dog Food


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## Sheltielover25 (Jan 18, 2011)

SaharaNight Boxers said:


> NRG Maxim might work. It's still 18% fat, but it has 500 kcals a cup which should help with keeping weight. It's a dehydrated food instead of kibble though. Depending it could get expensive. NRG Dog Food Products | Natural Dog Food | Dehydrated Dog Food | Raw Dog Food


Wow, that is a pretty neat looking food! Rare to see free-range beef in foods... Have you fed this before? I've never done the dehydrated food but looking for a food while we travel cross country so this might be a good option.


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## monster'sdad (Jul 29, 2012)

riddick4811 said:


> Casper has been eating Victor Yukon for the past 6 weeks and doing pretty good on it. It is grain free, and uses salmon and ocean fish. He is allergic to chicken too. Victor Super Premium Dog Food
> 
> You can buy it online at rocketpetz.com



Victor is a great option and guess what? The guy that makes Victor, Mid-America, also make Nature's Logic, but somehow manages to sell a really good food for about half as much. The guy that owns Nature's Logic was involved with Nature's Variety but now the marketing pitch is "no added vitamins" rather rotational feeding. 

Victor is worth a try, might be hard to get up there.


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## _unoriginal (Apr 8, 2012)

SaharaNight Boxers said:


> Natures Variety LID might be an option. I believe they don't use eggs or chicken and they are grain free.


Yep, I love NVI LID.

This is what I feed to my allergy dog. He does very well on it when it seemed he had minor to major issues with everything else.

Nature's Variety Instinct: Limited Ingredient Diet: Lamb Meal Formula for dogs | Nature's Variety


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## SaharaNight Boxers (Jun 28, 2011)

Sheltielover25 said:


> Wow, that is a pretty neat looking food! Rare to see free-range beef in foods... Have you fed this before? I've never done the dehydrated food but looking for a food while we travel cross country so this might be a good option.


I have never fed it, but found it while looking for dehydrated foods. From resding reviews, dogs seem to do great on it. It's mainly available in Canada, though there is one supplier that ships nationwide I believe.


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## Sheltielover25 (Jan 18, 2011)

monster'sdad said:


> Victor is a great option and guess what? The guy that makes Victor, Mid-America, also make Nature's Logic, but somehow manages to sell a really good food for about half as much. The guy that owns Nature's Logic was involved with Nature's Variety but now the marketing pitch is "no added vitamins" rather rotational feeding.
> 
> Victor is worth a try, might be hard to get up there.


Considering it's not a marketing pitch but the truth... and I for one feel more comfortable feeding a food that isn't using synthetic vitamins as they've never tested long-term effects on them and they cause my pups with neuro damage to have episodes... I'd pay more for a food that has enough quality ingredients in it that they don't have to add in synthetic forms


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## monster'sdad (Jul 29, 2012)

Sheltielover25 said:


> Considering it's not a marketing pitch but the truth... and I for one feel more comfortable feeding a food that isn't using synthetic vitamins as they've never tested long-term effects on them and they cause my pups with neuro damage to have episodes... I'd pay more for a food that has enough quality ingredients in it that they don't have to add in synthetic forms


Show me some data on this. I wanna see how added vitamins and minerals harm the dog. Every manufacturer of food uses a vit/min premix except for him. Why is that? You seem too smart to fall for that line. It is nothing but a marketing gimmick.


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## Sheltielover25 (Jan 18, 2011)

Did you read what I said? There's no studies period on synthetic vitamins so neither one of us know the harms/unharms. I don't trust things that haven't been tested on long-term use.

My dogs get all the nutrients from food and I prefer to keep it that way. I don't mess around with synthetic forms of vitamins for myself and would prefer not to with my dogs.


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## monster'sdad (Jul 29, 2012)

Sheltielover25 said:


> Did you read what I said? There's no studies period on synthetic vitamins so neither one of us know the harms/unharms. I don't trust things that haven't been tested on long-term use.
> 
> My dogs get all the nutrients from food and I prefer to keep it that way. I don't mess around with synthetic forms of vitamins for myself and would prefer not to with my dogs.


Dude for someone that is always factually wrong, you have some attitude. How would you like to debate a Board Certified Clinical Nutritionist, PHD?

Also, your use of the word "synthetic" is somewhat misguided. What you will find is that most vitamins are not made in a chemical process (ie synthesized) like you believe, but rather from fermentation, which is a natural process. Some are also made by simple mechanical extraction.

"Don't Let The Facts Get in the Way of a Good Story"


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## Sheltielover25 (Jan 18, 2011)

monster'sdad said:


> Dude for someone that is always factually wrong, you have some attitude. How would you like to debate a Board Certified Clinical Nutritionist, PHD?
> 
> Also, your use of the word "synthetic" is somewhat misguided. What you will find is that most vitamins are not made in a chemical process (ie synthesized) like you believe, but rather from fermentation, which is a natural process. Some are also made by simple mechanical extraction.
> 
> "Don't Let The Facts Get in the Way of a Good Story"


Yes, I would debate them if they didn't go to Bastyr Univeristy as that's the only school I believe teaches nutrition right. I mean, come on, any school that teaches nutrition based on the food pyramid is a joke. I don't trust anyone because they have a degree... degree mean nothing as the people supply the books and funding the schools are the same people benefiting from these toxins. So give me a Bastyr University nutritionist and I'd listen to them...any other? Uh, no.


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## monster'sdad (Jul 29, 2012)

Sheltielover25 said:


> Yes, I would debate them if they didn't go to Bastyr Univeristy as that's the only school I believe teaches nutrition right. I mean, come on, any school that teaches nutrition based on the food pyramid is a joke. I don't trust anyone because they have a degree... degree mean nothing as the people supply the books and funding the schools are the same people benefiting from these toxins. So give me a Bastyr University nutritionist and I'd listen to them...any other? Uh, no.



LOL OK. I was thinking U Penn, not a community college.

http://dogworksradio.com/2012/12/14/mushing-radio-presents-dr-tim/

Here is a good radio interview with Dr. Hunt. This is a good resource for you.


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## Sheltielover25 (Jan 18, 2011)

monster'sdad said:


> Dude for someone that is always factually wrong, you have some attitude. How would you like to debate a Board Certified Clinical Nutritionist, PHD?
> 
> Also, your use of the word "synthetic" is somewhat misguided. What you will find is that most vitamins are not made in a chemical process (ie synthesized) like you believe, but rather from fermentation, which is a natural process. Some are also made by simple mechanical extraction.
> 
> "Don't Let The Facts Get in the Way of a Good Story"


Nice try!

Let's break it down here's vitamin C in synthetic form:

Synthetic vitamin C is usually just ascorbic acid. Ascorbic acid is a component of vitamin C, along with tyrosine and bioflavonoids. If you purchase synthetic vitamin C, you're not really getting vitamin C, but ascorbic acid, which is manufactured from corn sugar when used in vitamins. 

And how can you prove the synthetic vitamin in your food isn't created from coal tar or petroleum? Manufacturers create synthetic B vitamins from coal tar, or petroleum. 

Or you have vitamin E and Alpha tocopherol is usually marketed as vitamin E, but it makes up only one part of natural vitamin E. Folic acid is similar to folate, but it's not the real deal. Your body can't always process mere portions of natural vitamins or chemical "clones" because it relies on all the properties contained in natural vitamins to completely metabolize them.

You don't get to just take one part of the vitamin that's been extracted and expect it to work. ALL components need to be there:

This article references a few studies that have been done on synthetic vitamins:

http://www.activznutrition.com/pdf/Synthetic_Vitamins_Shown_to_Increase_Cancer.pdf


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## Sheltielover25 (Jan 18, 2011)

monster'sdad said:


> LOL OK. I was thinking U Penn, not a community college.
> 
> Mushing Radio presents Dr. Tim | Dog Works Radio
> 
> Here is a good radio interview with Dr. Hunt. This is a good resource for you.


A community college? Uh, no. Here's a clue: University after a school name means it isn't a community college. Also, there are many PhD professors there who don't buy into the mainstream media crap. They have a PhD TOO. They're not any less credible than your people. After what Penn state covered up, I'm not sure I'd trust any research that comes out of there!


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## Sheltielover25 (Jan 18, 2011)

monster'sdad said:


> LOL OK. I was thinking U Penn, not a community college.
> 
> Mushing Radio presents Dr. Tim | Dog Works Radio
> 
> Here is a good radio interview with Dr. Hunt. This is a good resource for you.


And no offense, but I'd never watch/read anything you suggested. I would never, ever in a million years respect your opinion and if we agreed on something, I'd seriously start to reconsider. When I post questions and you've answered, I don't even read them because we clearly view things very differently. The difference is I don't try pick everything you say apart because I realize you're allowed to have your own thoughts/opinions... maybe you should learn that, too. I have many, many PhD people following what I do and living the lifestyle I live.


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## Kassandra (Jun 6, 2012)

Ok.. ignoring the debate you guys had lol!

I picked up a small bag of Natural Balance Lamb and Rice today. I'm going to see how she does on that the next week or so. I know that this isn't a very long time but at least I will know if she is going to have any major issues on the food and then I will be able to switch or continue accordingly.

Honestly, I may just suck it up and be broke for the next couple months and buy a freezer so I will be able to feed raw again, no offence to you all over here that feed kibble! I just gotta do what's best for my dog and her food allergies disappeared while being raw fed. Not looking to get in a row over it


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## Sheltielover25 (Jan 18, 2011)

Kassandra said:


> Ok.. ignoring the debate you guys had lol!
> 
> I picked up a small bag of Natural Balance Lamb and Rice today. I'm going to see how she does on that the next week or so. I know that this isn't a very long time but at least I will know if she is going to have any major issues on the food and then I will be able to switch or continue accordingly.
> 
> Honestly, I may just suck it up and be broke for the next couple months and buy a freezer so I will be able to feed raw again, no offence to you all over here that feed kibble! I just gotta do what's best for my dog and her food allergies disappeared while being raw fed. Not looking to get in a row over it


Yeah, the good thing about raw is you can dig deep and know exactly what you're feeding your dog and that's really great it they have allergies. I hope you're able to do that and if not I hope his new kibble works out for him.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

I would honestly go with Nature's Variety lamb & tapioca LID vs the Natural Balance. And this is coming from someone who works for NB lol. Or try one of the other formulas, that are grain free. The Sweet Potato & Venison, Duck & Legume, Potato & Rabbit...


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## Kassandra (Jun 6, 2012)

meggels said:


> I would honestly go with Nature's Variety lamb & tapioca LID vs the Natural Balance. And this is coming from someone who works for NB lol. Or try one of the other formulas, that are grain free. The Sweet Potato & Venison, Duck & Legume, Potato & Rabbit...


Is that simply because they are grain free or because you feel it is a better food? Charlie doesn't have a problem with rice, not noticeably anyways.. I probably won't be sticking with it anyhow as I read wrong and thought it said 21% fat but it was really 12%... :doh: Wayyyyyyy too low of a fat content for her. I actually don't even know if I am going to open the bag, I might just bring it back.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

I like the LID from Natures Variety better because they have higher fat and protein.

I like the other NB formulas bc the lamb and brown rice is one of the least popular sellers, I hear better reviews on the other formulas.

Maybe Natural Balances Alpha line would work...


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## Kassandra (Jun 6, 2012)

I was just curious as to why! I'm definitely not set on NB, just was curious of your opinion  I'm definitely bringing back the NB anyways, way too low fat. I've been looking at Natures Variety and it looks like it could work so I will see if I can pick up a bag of that.


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## _unoriginal (Apr 8, 2012)

Kass, I don't know how much your dog normally eats but my kibble dog maintains very well on 2 cups daily of the NVI LID lamb. He's 70#


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## monster'sdad (Jul 29, 2012)

Sheltielover25 said:


> A community college? Uh, no. Here's a clue: University after a school name means it isn't a community college. Also, there are many PhD professors there who don't buy into the mainstream media crap. They have a PhD TOO. They're not any less credible than your people. After what Penn state covered up, I'm not sure I'd trust any research that comes out of there!


Ummmm...University of Pennsylvania (U Penn) and Penn State are two different schools, genius.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

monster'sdad said:


> Ummmm...University of Pennsylvania (U Penn) and Penn State are two different schools, genius.


There's no need to get nasty.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

Kassandra said:


> I was just curious as to why! I'm definitely not set on NB, just was curious of your opinion  I'm definitely bringing back the NB anyways, way too low fat. I've been looking at Natures Variety and it looks like it could work so I will see if I can pick up a bag of that.


Sorry, hope I didn't sound short with you. I didn't mean to. I was on my phone and about to go to bed lol.


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## kevin bradley (Aug 9, 2009)

Monster,

Do you ever worry that the conventional Veterinary community might be really slow coming to terms with what good sound nutrition means? You seem to lay most of your beliefs on University studies...admittely from very well regarded institutions(Penn has one of the elite Veterinary schools I believe)...

I certainly don't have the knowledge to challenge you. However, I DO know that the HUMAN medical community was horrifically slow coming to terms with what good nutrition even means. Even today, some would laugh at listening to a Doctor on Nutrition. 50 years ago, you were shunned in the medical community for using Nutrition as a means to preventing disease.

Just wondering if you ever worry that you place too much faith in some of these outlets.


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## InkedMarie (Sep 9, 2011)

For the op: it might be worth a grain and potato food. I have a list of those foods if you'd like it. Some might need to be ordered; is that something you'd do?


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## monster'sdad (Jul 29, 2012)

kevin bradley said:


> Monster,
> 
> Do you ever worry that the conventional Veterinary community might be really slow coming to terms with what good sound nutrition means? You seem to lay most of your beliefs on University studies...admittely from very well regarded institutions(Penn has one of the elite Veterinary schools I believe)...
> 
> ...


I don't place as much as you think when it comes to nutrition. I place my trust with companies and people that have real experience with dogs, not companies that develop foods from the marketing department. I do cite studies when it comes to things like allergies, because no matter what study you look at the results are the same.

I know from years of working with animals that 99.99% of so called alternative therapies and supplements are a fraud at best and dangerous at worst.

I couldn't imagine recommending Black Walnut, which is a known toxin, for heartworms when such a safe product like ivermectin is available for pennies a dose. And, I couldn't imagine making a statment that most thyroid conditions can be cured with kelp because it is simply false. I cannot believe those posts remain on this forum.


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## Sheltielover25 (Jan 18, 2011)

monster'sdad said:


> I cannot believe those posts remain on this forum.


Then why do you keep coming here? Many posters don't take anything you say with a grain of salt as well. I'm sure there are forums out there for people who prefer the conventional ways... so why come here? So many people come on here saying to disregard what you say and it's like why keep coming? Are you that unhappy that you have to come on here and attempt to bully people who prefer to live a lifestyle that doesn't match up to how you live your life? So bitter and unplesant and it just seems the vibe here would be so much better off without that.

And you don't know half the things you claim to know LOL Saying open-ended statements like "99.9% of so-called alternative therapies/supplements are fraud" is BS. Stop acting like because you feel a certain way, it's accurate. new flash: you can't claim to "know" things unless you've tested 99.9 of these so-called methods.


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## Sheltielover25 (Jan 18, 2011)

monster'sdad said:


> Ummmm...University of Pennsylvania (U Penn) and Penn State are two different schools, genius.


My bad, Still doesn't mean the people I know with PhD are any less knowledgable than your people. People view life different and chose to follow different methods. For instance, if I got cancer, you bet your butt I'd try cannabis oil and never even dream of chemo. Many people have chosen this route and are now cured. Some people chose chemo and some are cancer-free at the end. You need to realize in life there are multiple paths that can be taken to reach the same goal and your path isn't superior. I'm hoping you're just younger and haven't figured out how to communicate yet, but if you're older and still act like this that's pitiful and very immature. People like you, who thrive on talking down to other people, really get on my nerves.


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## DaViking (Sep 27, 2011)

Sheltielover25 said:


> My bad, Still doesn't mean the people I know with PhD are any less knowledgable than your people. People view life different and chose to follow different methods. For instance, if I got cancer, you bet your butt I'd try cannabis oil and never even dream of chemo. Many people have chosen this route and are now cured. Some people chose chemo and some are cancer-free at the end. You need to realize in life there are multiple paths that can be taken to reach the same goal and your path isn't superior. I'm hoping you're just younger and haven't figured out how to communicate yet, but if you're older and still act like this that's pitiful and very immature. People like you, who thrive on talking down to other people, really get on my nerves.


Canabis oil doesn't cure cancer, that's lala land beliefs. Steve Jobs trusted an alternative medicine quack and is now dead...
Sometimes a handful here need a reality check, I don't care if it comes from Monster or anyone else, it only balances out all the misguided information coming from the other side.


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## domika (Jul 15, 2012)

Steve jobs was going to die no matter what route he took. From what I remember he was lucky he got the amount of time he did.


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## DaViking (Sep 27, 2011)

domika said:


> Steve jobs was going to die no matter what route he took. From what I remember he was lucky he got the amount of time he did.


Nope, if he accepted traditional western medicine on an earlier stage his odds would be much better. He might still have died of course.


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## DaViking (Sep 27, 2011)

Sheltielover25 said:


> Then why do you keep coming here? Many posters don't take anything you say with a grain of salt as well. I'm sure there are forums out there for people who prefer the conventional ways... so why come here? So many people come on here saying to disregard what you say and it's like why keep coming? Are you that unhappy that you have to come on here and attempt to bully people who prefer to live a lifestyle that doesn't match up to how you live your life? So bitter and unplesant and it just seems the vibe here would be so much better off without that.
> 
> And you don't know half the things you claim to know LOL Saying open-ended statements like "99.9% of so-called alternative therapies/supplements are fraud" is BS. Stop acting like because you feel a certain way, it's accurate. new flash: you can't claim to "know" things unless you've tested 99.9 of these so-called methods.


I know this wasn't directed at me but still...

I'll share this tomorrow with a few local raw feeders who never log in anymore because of a small clique who talk a lot but know very little. This place would be a much better place if those and other knowledgeable raw feeders actually would find it meaningful to participate. "Sadly" they don't believe in crazy claims, they know the difference between fraudulent homeopathic medicine and trad alternative medicine and can't stand all the misinformation coming from a few. They tried but got told how narrow minded they are. Frankly, if you want good help on raw feeding there are better places to go than here. I don't believe for a second that most raw feeders buy into all the far fetch stuff and most raw feeders I know have no interest in a juvenile way of making a case.


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## Kassandra (Jun 6, 2012)

InkedMarie said:


> For the op: it might be worth a grain and potato food. I have a list of those foods if you'd like it. Some might need to be ordered; is that something you'd do?


Unfortunatly I can't order foods. It's not that I wouldn't, but it's pretty costly to have things shipped here. I'd like to see the foods though if it's not too much trouble.


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## kevin bradley (Aug 9, 2009)

monster'sdad said:


> I don't place as much as you think when it comes to nutrition. I place my trust with companies and people that have real experience with dogs, not companies that develop foods from the marketing department. I do cite studies when it comes to things like allergies, because no matter what study you look at the results are the same.
> 
> I know from years of working with animals that 99.99% of so called alternative therapies and supplements are a fraud at best and dangerous at worst.
> 
> I couldn't imagine recommending Black Walnut, which is a known toxin, for heartworms when such a safe product like ivermectin is available for pennies a dose. And, I couldn't imagine making a statment that most thyroid conditions can be cured with kelp because it is simply false. I cannot believe those posts remain on this forum.



Tend to agree with you on much of this...

In college I worked at a gym and later at a GNC. Was always kind of immersed in the fitness industry from early on. The garbage that is peddled for HUMAN nutritional performance and the claims that they can make is off the charts crazy. The Mayan Calendar Freaks have nothing on the fitness/Nutritional Industry.... What have I seen come and go... Boron-that was a beauty. Chromium Picolinate--would "burn" fat right off your body...people would flock to get that crap. One afternoon while working in the gym, the door opened and a Salesman introduced HIS new product.... he claimed to have capsules with concentrated substance taken straight from Bulls testicles. Said it would dramatically increase testosterone levels. Nice. 

My point is that I get it. People will do ANYTHING in a capitalistic setting, they will say anything, claim anything... do ANYTHING to fool consumers. 

I think you make very fair points, Monster. I do think you have to be careful to not make fun of people though. Some people really believe in this stuff and who knows, maybe SOME of it works.


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

DaViking said:


> I know this wasn't directed at me but still...
> 
> I'll share this tomorrow with a few local raw feeders who never log in anymore because of a small clique who talk a lot but know very little. This place would be a much better place if those and other knowledgeable raw feeders actually would find it meaningful to participate. "Sadly" they don't believe in crazy claims, they know the difference between fraudulent homeopathic medicine and trad alternative medicine and can't stand all the misinformation coming from a few. They tried but got told how narrow minded they are. Frankly, if you want good help on raw feeding there are better places to go than here. I don't believe for a second that most raw feeders buy into all the far fetch stuff and most raw feeders I know have no interest in a juvenile way of making a case.


Just wanted to say, I learned to raw feed here, and still, to this day never had a cross word said to me. I've also seen nothing but knowledgeable help for beginner raw feeders as well. But hey, maybe It's just me.


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## Sheltielover25 (Jan 18, 2011)

DaViking said:


> Canabis oil doesn't cure cancer, that's lala land beliefs. Steve Jobs trusted an alternative medicine quack and is now dead...
> Sometimes a handful here need a reality check, I don't care if it comes from Monster or anyone else, it only balances out all the misguided information coming from the other side.


The point is if I want to live my life by lala beliefs, guess what?!? THAT'S MY RIGHT. IT'S MY LIFE. YOU OR ANYONE ELSE DON'T GET TO TELL ME HOW I SHOULD LIVE MY LIFE. GOT IT?


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## Sheltielover25 (Jan 18, 2011)

DaViking said:


> Nope, if he accepted traditional western medicine on an earlier stage his odds would be much better. He might still have died of course.



Also, please, stop stating things are just aren't true.

"Steve Jobs considered using medical marijuana to treat his cancer after reading studies of its effectiveness in killing cancer cells and tumors. He decided not to, solely because then he would have been denied a life-saving liver transplant, just like Timothy Garon."

So, no, Steve Jobs didn't try cannabis oil. Also, how many people do chemo and still die? That's about as dumb of a comparison as I can think of. LOL

And also, if you know anything about the kind of cancer he had, when using chemo they usually offer minimal extended survival, often at the expense of reduced quality of life. So he chose not to go down a path that would ultimately lead to more suffering. I am surprised you would spew such absurdity since it seems you usually check your facts first.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

Sheltielover25 said:


> Also, please, stop stating things are just aren't true.
> 
> "Steve Jobs considered using medical marijuana to treat his cancer after reading studies of its effectiveness in killing cancer cells and tumors. He decided not to, solely because then he would have been denied a life-saving liver transplant, just like Timothy Garon."
> 
> ...


My friends 28 year old step-son has been undergoing chemo and radiation for liver cancer (that spread to bile ducts and his spine). It's not working, he is losing his battle. And his qualify of life from the chemo and radiation is pretty awful


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## kevin bradley (Aug 9, 2009)

Didn't Steve Jobs have a Liver transplant?

I don't want to take sides here, but that is hardly a cutting edge homeopathic crazy treatment....???

I'm not certain but I thought he did.


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## DaViking (Sep 27, 2011)

Sheltielover25 said:


> So, no, Steve Jobs didn't try cannabis oil. Also, how many people do chemo and still die? That's about as dumb of a comparison as I can think of. LOL


Are you comparing cannabis oil to chemo therapy? If you have such a great belief in cannabis oil you should immigrate to a third world country with laxed laws on medical treatment and set up a cancer treatment facility. You will be a gazillionaire in no time, if it works that is.


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## DaViking (Sep 27, 2011)

Sheltielover25 said:


> The point is if I want to live my life by lala beliefs, guess what?!? THAT'S MY RIGHT. IT'S MY LIFE. YOU OR ANYONE ELSE DON'T GET TO TELL ME HOW I SHOULD LIVE MY LIFE. GOT IT?


Sure, but I have the right to challenge every bit of nonsense you spew out in public. You go and live exactly the life you want, no one is saying you can't. There's a difference between telling you what to do and challenging what you say. I am not your parents, do you think I care what you do personally?


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