# i really dont understand where you buy all this stuff.



## RCTRIPLEFRESH5 (Feb 11, 2010)

so i go to the supermarket a lot. in particular i go to shoprite. they have a deli counter with deli meats...which i assume is not where to go. then they have the sea food section with a counter where they have ground chop meat and a few other things i never paid attention too. then they have some chopped meat,steaks etc in packages in the fridge thingies next to that. i really dont understand what chicken necks are,or chicken feet,or raw meaty bones. if i could find some things here, i might give Shane some.
i dont want to switch to raw,but the vet said his plaque is building up(not too bad maybe stage 1 periodontal) and i want to give him some bones as you guys make it sound like theyre miracle workers lol

although i hear horror stories about dogs choking on their first bones,and i cant deal with that.
didnt want to ask this earlier because last time i asked a question(the rubbermaid question) i got a sarcastic response.


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## eternalstudent (Jul 22, 2010)

The best place to find the meats is with a butcher, or a grocery store which has a fresh meat section. 

Things like chicken feet and necks are not normally sold in the standard shops and a little hunting is required, they can be found in the asian markets and stores. I buy my chicken backs wholesale, as they are destined to the hotel / restaurant trade to be made in to chicken soup.

I get my rib bones from the butchers after they have stripped most of the meat from them. This way I get them for free. I would also suggest that if you are not feeding raw then this is the way to go as it save buying meat for your dog that you will end up eating!! And frankly I can't be bothered to cook brisket beef for myself.

It is advisable if your dog is one who inhales food to make sure the bones you give a large enough so they have to chew this should stop any choking hazard (my pup has only ever choked up her food once and that was on kibble!).

The dental benefit comes from two places, one: on the PMR diet there is little to no starch fed to the dogs and secondly: from the scraping action of the bone. Many dog food companies sell denta sticks which are supposed to do the same thing as a bone by scrapping the teeth clean.

I hope this helps


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

You won't get any sarcastic responses from me. I'll give you the straight scoop.

Chicken necks are the part of the chicken between the head and shoulders. :smile:
Chicken feet are what the chicken walk on. :smile:
Raw meaty bones are raw bones covered in meat. I mean a lot of meat.

You don't want to feed your dog chicken necks because there is not much chewing involved with them and in your dog's case, there is a good chance he will swallow them whole without even bothering to chew at all. Basically they are too small for your dog.

I have never fed chicken feet but I imagine that there is not a lot of scraping action with them. You won't find them in regular grocery stores too often. Usually they are in ethnic markets.

Feed your dog chicken backs or leg quarters (both of these are RMBs). Those will do what you want. Backs can be difficult to find unless you order them by the case. Quarters are easy peasy to find in most any grocery store that sells meat and they are pretty resonably priced. They are also large enough that he won't swallow them whole.


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## Mia (Oct 4, 2010)

Good tips!


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

RawFedDogs said:


> Chicken necks are the part of the chicken between the head and shoulders. :smile:
> Chicken feet are what the chicken walk on. :smile:
> Raw meaty bones are raw bones covered in meat. I mean a lot of meat.


Ahhh the wisdom!:tongue::biggrin:


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## spookychick13 (Jan 26, 2010)

I agree with the chicken quarters, that's the thigh still attached to the drumstick. They are nice, big, and meaty, and probably about the perfect size for Shane, and relatively easy to find!

You can find them in the meat section at the grocery store and they shouldn't be TOO expensive. Remember you might have better luck if you feed your regular food in the morning and the chicken quarter at night, since kibble/canned digests differently to fresh meat. 

Turkey necks can be good too, but they are a little bit harder to find. I see them once in a while at Pick 'N Save though.

Good luck!


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## Mia (Oct 4, 2010)

CorgiPaws said:


> Ahhh the wisdom!:tongue::biggrin:



Isn't it nice to be able to open up your book of raw on this fourm and have people supporting you!!!!! Thanks guys. I'm learning so much.:redface:


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## luvMyBRT (Mar 8, 2010)

Do you have a WalMart near by? If so, I have had the best luck finding my chicken quarters there. I have been getting 10 lb bags for .38 cents a pound. It doesn't get much better than that. :biggrin:
You could also look for beef ribs for Shane to chew on.


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## malluver1005 (Nov 15, 2009)

Chix quarters, beef ribs, pork ribs. These will all do the trick. Aspen's tarter cleared in about 2 weeks from this (not joking). All of his teeth are nice and clean except for the canines, which have a little tarter at the top, cause he doesn't chew with those.


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## hcdoxies (Sep 22, 2010)

I see a lot of people buying at Walmart and other "chain" grocery stores. But I'm wondering - are you guys at all concerned about the quality of the meat? In that I mean - are you concerned that it is enhanced, processed, the animals were raised on steroids, etc. etc.

This is always what I have been taught - get as organic as you can. Pasture/grass fed animals. Does this hold true for most people?

Because, if I can find "my kind of meat" at Walmart, I'm headed over there!!!


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## JayJayisme (Aug 2, 2009)

As far as I'm concerned, the "worst" quality meat is still better for my dog than the "best" quality kibble. I don't worry too much about it for my dogs. They are miles ahead nutritionally than any dog on commercial food.


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## hcdoxies (Sep 22, 2010)

JayJayisme said:


> As far as I'm concerned, the "worst" quality meat is still better for my dog than the "best" quality kibble. I don't worry too much about it for my dogs. They are miles ahead nutritionally than any dog on commercial food.


Well, I mean... For example - the sodium content in enhanced meat is not good for our dogs' skin and coat and can cause an allergic reaction. This doesn't concern anyone?

(I'm not trying to start any trouble or anything, just trying to get a feel for the general attitude, since I'm new here)


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## jdatwood (Apr 13, 2009)

hcdoxies said:


> I see a lot of people buying at Walmart and other "chain" grocery stores. But I'm wondering - are you guys at all concerned about the quality of the meat? In that I mean - are you concerned that it is enhanced, processed, the animals were raised on steroids, etc. etc.
> 
> This is always what I have been taught - get as organic as you can. Pasture/grass fed animals. Does this hold true for most people?
> 
> Because, if I can find "my kind of meat" at Walmart, I'm headed over there!!!


Unfortunately feeding 10+lbs of meat a day we cannot afford the "better" meats. 

Sure, I'd LOVE to feed my dogs hormone free meats (I'd love some for ME too)

At this point $50-100/day for food for our dogs isn't an option.

I'm VERY content in feeding them the "kibbles & bits" of meat for now. It's still whole fresh meat and 100 times better than any kibble out there


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## Mia (Oct 4, 2010)

I bet free meat is even better eh? Too bad you guys didn't live closer Id give you deer for sure!


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## jdatwood (Apr 13, 2009)

Rye&Ted said:


> I bet free meat is even better eh? Too bad you guys didn't live closer Id give you deer for sure!


I'll pay you for a Styrofoam cooler, dry ice, and a shipment of free deer :wink:


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## Mia (Oct 4, 2010)

I'm Canada, I don't think they allow meat to be shipped across the boarder. I know for sure can't even bring it across. I tried once before for a dinner party and they took it away.


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## jdatwood (Apr 13, 2009)

Rye&Ted said:


> I'm Canada, I don't think they allow meat to be shipped across the boarder. I know for sure can't even bring it across. I tried once before for a dinner party and they took it away.


Yeah, unfortunately you can't. :frown:


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## Mia (Oct 4, 2010)

Sorry!:frown:


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## luvMyBRT (Mar 8, 2010)

hcdoxies said:


> I see a lot of people buying at Walmart and other "chain" grocery stores. But I'm wondering - are you guys at all concerned about the quality of the meat? In that I mean - are you concerned that it is enhanced, processed, the animals were raised on steroids, etc. etc.
> 
> This is always what I have been taught - get as organic as you can. Pasture/grass fed animals. Does this hold true for most people?
> 
> Because, if I can find "my kind of meat" at Walmart, I'm headed over there!!!


I feed the best meat that I can find and afford. 

I'm not sure if they carry "your kind of meat", but some of what they have works great for my dogs and many others....


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5 (Feb 11, 2010)

thanks for all the responses/ i forgot about this thread,but i remembered and stopped in. ill read the posts later. btw very straight to the point post bill 

edit:just saw a snid bit of one other post...i think walmart raw diet,would still be better than an orijen or evo diet...so i dont think people should be faulted for feeding walmart meat.

man..dogs are so high on the food chain its ridiculous!


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## VetStudent (Sep 22, 2010)

Where do you guys find turkey necks? I actually went to whole foods and they ordered me a case of chicken backs for $20, is that a rip off or good deal? Im not sure how many come with them.

Man this raw food diet stuff is fun


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## luvMyBRT (Mar 8, 2010)

VetStudent said:


> Where do you guys find turkey necks? I actually went to whole foods and they ordered me a case of chicken backs for $20, is that a rip off or good deal? Im not sure how many come with them.
> 
> Man this raw food diet stuff is fun


I get my turkey necks from a meat whole seller, through our co op. Have you looked into maybe joining a co op (if there is one near you)?

How many pounds makes up the case of chicken backs?


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

i have an independent grocery store, where i used to buy cases of turkey necks...i think they charged me .99/lb for thirty pounds.

i don't feed them anymore. my guys are small and don't require as much bone as they did...

but they do give a workout, that's for sure...

for my guys, pork ribs work well as do beef ribs for a good teeth cleaning.

i also get beef back ribs at my grocery store.

when you guys talk about enhanced meat...are you talking about a sodium content higher than 100 mg?

because if the meat or fowl has been packed in its own juices, broth, water, etc.....the sodium can leach out of the protein into the solution...so just wash it or let it soak...


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

hcdoxies said:


> Well, I mean... For example - the sodium content in enhanced meat is not good for our dogs' skin and coat and can cause an allergic reaction. This doesn't concern anyone?
> 
> (I'm not trying to start any trouble or anything, just trying to get a feel for the general attitude, since I'm new here)


The chicken, pork, fish and beef we get from walmart is not enhanced but turkey usually is. It isn't free range, grass fed, antibiotic free meat but I'm ok with that. We go through about 10 pounds a day so we do the best that we can for what we can afford. We try and stay away from enhanced meats as much as possible, but I wouldn't turn it down if it were free. It would be much more feasible to feed more natural meats if we had five little dogs! 

If I could afford the better meats, hands down I would feed that!


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## Mia (Oct 4, 2010)

I agree. We are the same way. We get free game meat which is awesome. It helps. But I have 4 people in my family to feed too as well as 95 and 65 pound dogs. 

We do our best and stand in pride :smile:


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## sassymaxmom (Dec 7, 2008)

I actually feed some of the nastiest WalMart meat, the stuff that has to be tossed out. There is a program to get that stuff into the hands of carnivore feeders. 
sustainableselections : Sustainable Selections- Feed Raw
My supplier pays a hefty fee for huge amounts of meat and passes her surplus to others for a nominal fee. Half my meat cost $.30 a pound from this source and is saving this from the land fill. As dogs used to eat from human dumps I justify this as feeding Max just what his ancestors used to eat.

Back to Shoprite. Right now at ShopRite of Southbury at Southbury Green [random choice] I could be buying chicken roasters for $.75 a pound, chicken quarters for $.79 a pound, boneless pork chops for $1.99 a pound, southern style boneless pork ribs for $1.49 a pound, pork hocks for $.99 a pound or the whole fresh picnic roast for $1.19 a pound. I would be choosing the roaster chickens and the picnic roast as the best deals and would jump on the pork hocks for a meaty teeth cleaning chew if they are large enough for my dogs. Go to your market and check the price per pound labels of everything!


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## jdatwood (Apr 13, 2009)

sassymaxmom said:


> sustainableselections : Sustainable Selections- Feed Raw


Unfortunately they haven't been accepting new raw feeders for over a year now because of 1 bad apple. 1 person complained their dog got sick from the meat and now Walmart won't let them accept individuals back into the program.

They're exploring new suppliers but in the meantime it's essentially a dead program for someone like me.


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## Mia (Oct 4, 2010)

I joined, hopefully Canada has some links.


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

hcdoxies- yes I worry about all the crap that goes into the meat that I feed my dogs, if I wasn't just feeding meat and meat alone I wouldn't worry so much about it.

But if you look at some of the people who eat red meat loaded with hormones and antibiotics and what it can do to you, early onset menopause, headaches (migraines) younger and younger girls starting menusration. Hormones in food is a real problem. And this is all I'm feeding to my dogs!

So, I've chosen to feed all natural, hormone, antibiotic free meat. 
No one really knows what the outcome will be as I'm sure there are no studies on feeding a dog a raw diet of natural food compared to processed hormone loaded meat but I'm not willing to take the chance to find that it will have an adverse effect.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

whiteleo said:


> hcdoxies- yes I worry about all the crap that goes into the meat that I feed my dogs, if I wasn't just feeding meat and meat alone I wouldn't worry so much about it.
> 
> But if you look at some of the people who eat red meat loaded with hormones and antibiotics and what it can do to you, early onset menopause, headaches (migraines) younger and younger girls starting menusration. Hormones in food is a real problem. And this is all I'm feeding to my dogs!
> 
> ...


didn't the fda make it a requirement for all packaging to say whether the product is enhanced and with what.....if it has antibiotics or not...if it has hormones or not....

what we get at the grocery store...at least what i think i'm buying...says on the packaging...no hormones and no antibiotics....and it's not organic....i realise that means grain finished or even grain fed....

but wasn't this addressed a few years ago? just askin'

because i agree about hormoned and antibiotic'd meats wreaking all kinds of havoc on the human body.


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## John Rambo (Sep 27, 2010)

Yucky..I have not bought meat for myself to eat from Walmart...I heard horror stories about the processing and handling from people who work there...ughh. Luckily dogs have strong stomachs...


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## Paws&Tails (Sep 3, 2010)

Honestly, even if the meat isn't antibiotic free, hormone/steroid free, pasture/grass fed and organic, it's still _*miles*_ better than any commercial food you could ever feed. 

I prefer hormone free, antibiotic free, pasture/grass fed and organic (and who wouldn't? I do have some serious concerns about hormones etc.) but in reality not everyone can afford it. They're still doing a lot better then those feeding even a high quality commercial food.

If you can find a local farmer that you can purchase meat from, it's often cheaper than buying from Whole Food's or some other natural foods place.


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## SerenityFL (Sep 28, 2010)

I guess I'm lucky where I live. In Miami, these people eat some WEIRD stuff and chicken necks, gizzards, turkey neck, cow tongue, hearts, livers, pig feet, and other assorted eeeeeesh stuff is readily available in your every day supermarket.

I do not have to go out of my way to find anything unless I want to feed rabbit or rodent, (which I do not). 

And with as much of this disgusting stuff as I've been buying, I'm ensuring Publix that these are popular, keep selling them.


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

You might find some pork and all chicken that say hormone/antibiotic free but not is true of beef. Beef unless it says Natural, grainfed, no added hormones or steroids then it is loaded. 

Nowadays you can't find natural pork ribs that don't have an added solution to it. They inject it with crap. I don't want my dogs eating stuff I wouldn't eat.

I won't buy southern chicken because it says nothing on the package, the government has been pulling the wool over our eyes for too long for me to believe everything they say. Some meat just looks like crap compared to others at better stores, I don't care how good my dogs digestive system is. If I don't feel comfortable feeding it, than they shouldn't have to eat it.


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## jdatwood (Apr 13, 2009)

whiteleo said:


> *Beef unless it says Natural*, grainfed, no added hormones or steroids then it is loaded.
> 
> Nowadays you can't find _*natural *_pork ribs that don't have an added solution to it. They inject it with crap. I don't want my dogs eating stuff I wouldn't eat.
> 
> I won't buy southern chicken because it says nothing on the package, the government has been pulling the wool over our eyes for too long for me to believe everything they say. Some meat just looks like crap compared to others at better stores, I don't care how good my dogs digestive system is.


You've been duped by big marketing

"NATURAL" does NOT mean organic or even lacking in hormones OR GMOs



> *According to the USDA, food can only be labeled natural if it contains no artificial ingredients or added colors and is minimally processed*. Furthermore, the label must clearly spell this definition out, so that consumers are not misled by the “natural” label. Although this label is an important step in the right direction, many consumers are more concerned about what the natural label does not mean.
> 
> For example, *animal products raised with the use of artificial hormones can be labeled natural. So can genetically modified organisms*. *Most importantly, natural does not mean organic, although many companies would like consumers to think it does*. Organic food has a stringent set of requirements, policies, and procedures that must be followed for certification. These requirements are much more explicit and in depth than the single paragraph definition used for “natural.”
> 
> Some companies who cannot afford organic certification may choose to use USDA labeling to define their product. For example, the USDA also defines the use of labeling regarding hormones and antibiotics. A company could label a product to indicate that it fulfilled the conditions for natural, hormone free, and antibiotic free USDA definitions. This method is, however, imperfect, because a variety of things that are certainly not organic could fall comfortably into all of these categories





whiteleo said:


> If I don't feel comfortable feeding it, than they shouldn't have to eat it.


Good for you! I'm the same. I'd never force my dogs to eat anything I'm not comfortable with.

Fortunately for them I'm comfortable feeding meat from Walmart, green lamb ribs, stinky chicken, non "natural" meats, etc. It's still light years ahead of kibble :wink: At some point we have to stop humanizing our dogs and accept the for the carnivores they really are.


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

Then I guess its time to kick all their a**es outside on the frontporch and let them fend for themselves!


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## jdatwood (Apr 13, 2009)

whiteleo said:


> Then I guess its time to kick all their a**es outside on the frontporch and let them fend for themselves!


My dogs? 

So you're saying that because I feed my dogs non "natural" meats (remember, NATURAL means NOTHING...) I should kick them out to fend for themselves?

Has this become a personal issue or does this apply to everyone here that feeds a raw diet that's not to your personal monetary standards??


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

Do you get anything you say? You said we need to stop humanizing our dogs!


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

whiteleo said:


> Do you get anything you say? You said we need to stop humanizing our dogs!


I think Jon is referring to stuff like this:




whiteleo said:


> I don't want my dogs eating stuff *I wouldn't eat*.


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## jdatwood (Apr 13, 2009)

whiteleo said:


> Do you get anything you say? You said we need to stop humanizing our dogs!


WHAT?? Try using the quote feature so people can *TRY* to follow what you're saying.

So what are your thoughts on* NATURAL* labeling since you chose to ignore that part of the post? Do you feel you've been misled in the meats you're buying because you thought *NATURAL* meant organic??


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

No, because I only buy my meats that I eat from a community co-op that only sells hormone/steroid free any kind of meat. Everything they sell in that store is raised "local" or farmed natural.

I bought the dogs a 1/2 a cow last year from a co-worker and the rest of the meat they get has come from the raw food co-op which magicre will attest to that all the meat is hormone/steroid free, people in the Northwest are pretty anal about their health and all the members at the co-op (over 400) want good natural food for their dogs.

And Organic meat, not sure I get that one. The only labeling I know I can trust is the USDA round organic stamp, you won't find that on any meat. But I'll have to look tomorrow when I go to the co-op for groceries, I don't personally eat meat that much but will look when I buy some. I only ever remember it saying hormone/steroid free, grass fed beef.


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## jdatwood (Apr 13, 2009)

Let's try this again...

You said



> You might find some pork and all chicken that say hormone/antibiotic free but not is true of beef. Beef *unless it says Natural*, grainfed, no added hormones or steroids then it is loaded.
> 
> Nowadays you can't find *natural pork ribs* that don't have an added solution to it. They inject it with crap. I don't want my dogs eating stuff I wouldn't eat.


"NATURAL" does NOT mean organic or even lacking in hormones OR GMOs



> *According to the USDA, food can only be labeled natural if it contains no artificial ingredients or added colors and is minimally processed*. Furthermore, the label must clearly spell this definition out, so that consumers are not misled by the “natural” label. Although this label is an important step in the right direction, many consumers are more concerned about what the natural label does not mean.
> 
> For example, *animal products raised with the use of artificial hormones can be labeled natural. So can genetically modified organisms*. *Most importantly, natural does not mean organic, although many companies would like consumers to think it does*. Organic food has a stringent set of requirements, policies, and procedures that must be followed for certification. These requirements are much more explicit and in depth than the single paragraph definition used for “natural.”


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

Jon- your use of bold, red font offends me. 
:wink::biggrin:


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## jdatwood (Apr 13, 2009)

CorgiPaws said:


> Jon- your use of bold, red font offends me.
> :wink::biggrin:


*Shut up or I'll make the font BIGGER*


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

O.K. so I had my words wrong, but don't get excited cause like I explained before my dogs have not been eating meat with hormones in it.!


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

jdatwood said:


> *Shut up or I'll make the font BIGGER*


*gasp* YOU USED CAPS!!!!!


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

Now who is being an idiot!!!!!!!!!


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## jdatwood (Apr 13, 2009)

whiteleo said:


> like I explained before my dogs have not been eating meat with hormones in it.!


Good for you. Pat yourself on the back. You're better than me. Congrats. Where should I send your cookies?


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## jdatwood (Apr 13, 2009)

whiteleo said:


> Now who is being an idiot!!!!!!!!!


*YOU*, *ME*, *LINSEY*... great fun on a Saturday night.

I'd rather be spending time cuddling on the couch with Natalie but instead I'm having to defend myself from your petty BS here on DFC. **SIGH**


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

I've had it with all the drama drama, kiddos.


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

danemama08 said:


> I've had it with all the drama drama, kiddos.


Thank you, Natalie. I was just getting ready to pull the plug myself.


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