# Sticky  "Is It Normal?" - PMR FAQ



## CorgiPaws

It is pretty typical for the raw feeding section to be full of "is it normal?" threads, so I thought I'd go ahead, and list out some things that while not typical on kibble, are not uncommon in a raw diet- especially for a dog newly transitioned. These are questions that very frequently pop up on DFC, as well as some other forums and lists. 

*Stools.* 
*Is it normal for my dog to have runny stools?*
Yes, and it indicates that you need to feed more bone for that time, and strip the chicken of all skin, fat, and organs. It can also be a good indicator that you are feeding too much, or moving too fast with introducing new proteins. Cut portions down, up the bone, proceed slowly. 
*
Is it normal for my dog's stools to be crumbly?*
Yes, and it indicates you are feeding too much bone, and not enough muscle meat.
*
Is it normal for my dog's stools to be yellow?*
Yellow stools are pretty typical for dogs eating all or mostly Chicken.
*
Is it normal for my dog's stools to be dark and like tar?*
Dark or tar-like stools indicate that you are feeding too much organ meats at a time, and you need to cut the amount down. Sometimes darker, looser stools happen after boneless red meat meals, and that means you shouldn't feed quite as much boneless at a time. It's a classic sign of moving too fast. 
Darker colored stools that are solid are of no significance, unless there's a decent amount of blood present.
*
Is it normal to see shards of bone in my dog's stools?*
For some dogs, it takes a little more time for their bodies to re-learn to digest the denser parts of bone. In the beginning, you may see small fragments of bone in the stools. DO not worry about it. The digestive tract is far more durable than what you may thing. In time,your dog's body will be accustomed to the raw bones, and you won't see this anymore. 
You may see them again when adding in more dense bones, like beef or pork bones, and just like with chicken bones, their bodies will learn to digest them.
*
Is it normal for my dog's stools to be very small?*
Yes! This is one of the many endless benefits to a raw diet! Your dog's stools will be much smaller and firmer on a PMR diet than on any other diet. Small stools do not mean your dog is constipated! If your dog is constipated, they won't poo at all. 
*
Is it normal for my dog's stools to turn white and crumbly?*
Yes. In a couple day's time, your dog's stools, if left untouched outside, will dry up, turn white and crumbly, and turn to dust. Enjoy not having to do poo duty!



*Vomit and Regurgitation
Is it normal for my dog to regurgitate right after eating?*
Yes, generally it means they didn't chew the food enough, and their bodies told them to bring it back up, and try again. *Some puppies may even be dramatic and yelp and cry right before/ during/ after regurgitation* Most dogs will willingly re-eat the food. Let them.

*Is it normal for my dog to vomit yellow bile between meals?*
Affectionately known as the "hunger pukes" sometimes dogs with an empty stomach will vomit bile. Raw digests so much faster than kibble, so most dogs fed kibble are used to having residual "gunk" sitting in their bellies from their last meal long after it's been eaten. A raw fed dog will digest and utilize their food much faster. You can feed more meals per day, which will remedy the hunger pukes, but in time their bodies will become accustomed to not having a constantly engorged belly. Also, feeding at random times of the day can help a great deal as well. 

*
Is it normal for my dog to vomit bone chunks?*
Dogs who are still getting used to eating bones may bring back up chunks of bone. It is their bodies way of telling you they can not quite digest it, and is a good sign your dog might need a slower transition. As their digestive juices work to the best of their ability, you will see less and less of this, but be aware you may need to go through this as bones of differing density are introduced. 
Once a dog has been introduced to bones of all APPROPRIATE densities and is accustomed to their raw diet, you won't see this anymore. 
*
Body Condition and Health
Is it normal to see poor side effects of a raw diet?*
Some people while in the transition phase will see things like increased dandruff, eye goop, slight hair loss, etc. These are generally indicators that the built up toxins and whatnot from a previously sub par diet are coming out. You may see a slight flare up in existing problems, and then they get much better. 

*Is it normal for my dog's gums to bleed on a PMR diet?*
Just like when people with poor gum health chew on crunchy things, or brush their teeth and see blood, dogs with poor oral health may experience bleeding of the gums at first. You are in luck, the raw diet will greatly improve the overall condition of your dogs gums and teeth!! 
PMR can improve any dog's teeth and gums, but do not have entirely unrealistic expectations. For some, the plaque buildup and periodontal disease is so advanced, a full dental cleaning by a vet is necessary, to start with a clean slate, and then a raw diet will maintain the clean teeth and gums.
*
Is it easier to maintain a healthy body weight on a raw diet?*
YES! With raw, you know exactly what you're giving your dog or cat, and that it is highly digestible. For overweight pets, just feel less. It's that simple! For underweight dogs, feed more. If you are unsure of how much to start with, calculate what 2.5 percent of your dog's ideal adult body weight is, and go from there. Adjust accordingly.
Dog's ideal weight x .025= good starting amount


Introducing New Proteins
*What can I start a raw diet with?*
Chicken! You'll want to start your dog off with bone inclusive chicken for the first week. Backs are a popular choice, but quarters are a good alternative if backs are not available. Wings and Chicken Necks are good for smaller dogs. 
*
How do I know when it's ok to introduce something new?*
DO not move forward with adding anything new until your dog has had at LEAST 3 days in a row of firm, solid stools. 
I recommend adding new protein sources in much smaller amounts than a typical meal, and always with bone. If you know your dog is more sensitive, it's always a good idea to strip skin and fat to start.

*How Often I introduce new foods?*
I don't recommend adding more than one new food in a week's time. SO for two weeks, feed just chicken. Week three, add a meal of bone in turkey, week four, add a meal of bone in pork, and so on. Moving faster might be ok for some dogs, but rather safe than sorry to make your transition as smooth as possible. 

*What do I feed after chicken?*
It is recommended after chicken, to move onto bone-inclusive Turkey. Then onto pork. Then onto gutted fish (whole contain too much other stuff at this point, but if your dog has a iron gut, go ahead and try it out!) and beef, and other richer red meats. 
There aren't many edible bones for things like beef and venison, so I generally introduce them as "half" meals, with the other half being something very bone heavy, like turkey neck, and work my way up to less bone. 
*
When do I introduce organ meats?*
Don't even think about organ meats for at least 6 weeks or so, generally even a bit longer. 
You can start giving them only when your dog has been introduced to a variety of proteins (at least the ones you intend to feed regularly) and is doing well with meals that are not bone heavy. At that point, add them in very SMALL amounts. Start with a quarter-sized sliver of liver. Just as with introducing other things, only proceed to add more if your dog is first handling the small amount fine. Be on the lookout for tar-poo.
*


What Not to Feed- or to feed with Caution
Are there any parts of an animal I should not feed?*
Weight-bearing bones of large animals, such as femurs and knuckles from cows, buffalo, etc. should not be given, especially to large "aggressive chewers." The reason being: these bones are designed to carry hundreds, if not thousands of pounds and are therefore much more dense than your dog's teeth. This proposed a risk of cracking, chipping, or downright breaking off a tooth. Why I’ll NEVER give a dog a marrow or knuckle bone | Prey Model Raw
There are plenty of people who argue that they've given these bones for years without having any bad things happen. To this argument I will say: There is never a problem- until there's a problem.

*Are there any foods that require special preparation?*
Wild caught salmon from the Pacific Northwest can carry a parasite that can effect dogs, and should be frozen for a few weeks before feeding. Most salmon is farmed, and canned salmon is no issue whatsoever.
Also, bear and wild boar can carry a form of trichinosis. I suggest further researching the topic and making a decision for yourself. 

*What about "enhanced meats"?*
Quite a lot of the meat on the market, particularly poultry, is enhanced with up to 10% saline solution. Non enhanced meats are strongly preferred. That being said, most enhanced meats are more affordable, and if that's all you can do- you are STILL leaps and bounds ahead of ANY commercially diet.. Stray away from enhanced meats as much as possible, but dont sweat the occasional enhanced meal. You can try soaking them to get some of the solution out. 
If your dog (or cat, or ferret) is having a tough time making the transition, try using un enhanced chicken and you may have better luck. 
Of course you want all the meats you feed to be as close to their natural state as possible.


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## luvMyBRT

I think this is sticky worthy!!! Great post! :biggrin:


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## DaneMama

Someones got free time on their hands!!! LOL

Once again awesome post Linsey. Just gotta make it sticky :wink: :biggrin:


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## CorgiPaws

danemama08 said:


> Someones got free time on their hands!!! LOL


Haha, is it that painfully obvious?


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## DaneMama

CorgiPaws said:


> Haha, is it that painfully obvious?


Nah! And it's ok because people benefit from your free time. I've been meaning to sit down and write out a "what to do page" so maybe I will just have to find some free time soon!


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## BTDogRaw

This is fantabulous! Definitely going to print and tape it into my PMR notebook. When I begin to feel overwhelmed or confused, and am not online, I flip through my notebook for reminders and reassurance as well as my daily notes on what I fed Bailey, how she is, etc. THANK YOU!!! :biggrin:

Amy


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## BRT

Love this post! thanks!


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## Gina

This was really helpful, thank you!


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## Bubu

Thanks for all the information. It is very helpful!


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## nupe

Great post and info...ty!!


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## FL Cracker

Any insight in regards to pig knuckles please...yeah or nay....supervised of course.


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## DaneMama

FL Cracker said:


> Any insight in regards to pig knuckles please...yeah or nay....supervised of course.


To me it honestly depends on how big the pig was and how dense the bones seem to me. I let my bigger Danes consume the should bones from pork shoulder roasts...haven't had any issues with that.


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## FL Cracker

DaneMama said:


> To me it honestly depends on how big the pig was and how dense the bones seem to me. I let my bigger Danes consume the should bones from pork shoulder roasts...haven't had any issues with that.


Ok...good to know. CoCo is teething right now...well actually almost done. I doubt the bone is big enough to swallow...there is a LOT of fat on it...and I can trim a lot of that off....but I was just not sure if it was an appropriate chew. I'm sure she would love it.


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## lily

what a fantastic post ,karen


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## NicoleSmith

What if your dog ate pebbles? Will it just poop that away? Thank you for the future replies.


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## hovad123

*is it normal/regurgiation*

my dog seems to regurgitate more than normal. he has been on raw since he was eight months old so it is not a transition thing. i usually feed prey model but whenever i give him ground he will yak it up with some slime. the only time he ever did this with whole chunks was when it was hot out.

how much regurgitation is normal, is it the result of the ground chicken/bone? i am paranoid there is something wrong with him.

any info greatly appreciated. 

THANKS


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## DaneMama

How old is your dog? What breed? How often is he regurgitating? Will he re eat the food that comes up?


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## hovad123

he is 15 month old cane corso, when he threw up the whole chicken thighs (bc it was hot I think) he re-ate it but he does not re eat the ground chicken w/bone. He will just regurgitate several puddles with slime in it. I am with family this weekend and I told my dad the ground wasn't for him and my dad accidentally gave it to him and he regurged like four or five times I am just concerned that there may be an underlying issue. I just watched my mom's five year old die of cancer and now I am freaking out. i don't think it's mesophagus because it doesn't come up in a tube like shape.


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## hovad123

Also as an aside, he sometimes seems to burp up fluid/saliva. it seems like acid reflux and it seems more prevalent after running around or on a hot day when there is lots of panting.

thanks!!!


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## hovad123

Sorry to be a pain but I thought I would ask again just one more time. Occasionally he will eat too fast and just spit up his meal and re eat it but he often has these liquid burp/regurgitations (many times there is grass mixed in). It's always within an hour of eating and usually slimy/liquidy with a trace of food or as I mentioned lately grass. I don't feed vegetables could that be a sign he needs greens? I read on another site that withholding veggies can lead to kidney failure which is something I had previously never heard. These burps/mini vomits happen a few times a week.

My mom's dog just passed away from an intestinal tumor at the age of five and he was always throwing up so now I am freaking out that there is something wrong with my dog. 

Could it be acid reflux?

thanks, sorry to be a pain but no one seems to know why he does this.


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## whiteleo

Ground mixtures always has the chance that there is bacteria in there, how long has the ground been ground up? Do you grind your own food? If not, what exactly are you giving him? I highly doubt that there is anything wrong with your dog, just normal reguritation but if the food is anyway enhanced that could be the culprit.


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## hovad123

It was pre ground from a butcher specifically for dogs although I stopped buying it and finished the stash that I had once I realized I could just throw chunks of meat at them.

I know I sound like a nut but I want to make sure I am not missing something basic but important. He will also throw up cooked food (people give the dogs table scraps) so no more of that either, just big whole chunks of meat and bone and organs.


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## whiteleo

Have you read all the guidelines, 80-10-10 along with fish for the omega 3's, giving a variety of meats from different animals and making sure they aren't enhanced (especially the chicken) feeding 1.5-2% of their body weight?


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## hovad123

yes i follow the 80 10 10 guidelines. the only thing i give ground now are small frozen organ patties that i make myself (i mix fish oil and a multi vitamin with joint support into them) 

he looks one hundred percent awesome i just want to make sure there wasn't an underlying issue.

thanks so much


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## blackdog65

*PMR FAQ -- great read for a new person (me)*

Is there an option to save things that we may want to refer to regularly (like this post)? Do we have a folder or anything? Thanks!


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## DaneMama

This particular thread is "stickied" so it will always be at the top of the raw section for easy access.


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## blackdog65

*stickies and bookmarks*

Ah, that works great. Thanks!


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## ciaBrysh

CorgiPaws said:


> Body Condition and Health
> Is it normal to see poor side effects of a raw diet?[/B]
> Some people while in the transition phase will see things like increased dandruff, eye goop, slight hair loss, etc. These are generally indicators that the built up toxins and whatnot from a previously sub par diet are coming out. You may see a slight flare up in existing problems, and then they get much better.



I notice Raj has become much more itchy than his usual now that we are in our 4th week of a raw diet.
Could this be because of his mostly chicken diet? We are now up to feeding pork ribs as our 3rd protein.
Maybe I should begin adding organ meat? (I intend on beginning with chicken liver)


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## Kat

Before starting organs it is suggested to intro beef or lamb because it is a richer red meat. Organs are super rich so need to be introd very slowly. Im just starting organs right now, and iv been told to start with dime sized amounts in the beginning with bone-in meals. 

I dont know what the itchyness could be.. is it possible one of the proteins you are feeding could be enhanced with sodium? 

In the beginning when I started raw, Ruby had a musky smell to her, but it went away after a week or so when he body ''detoxed'' from the kibble. She once accidently got into my cats food and she got that same musky smell for a few days, so Im guessing it was a kibble detox of some kind.


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## ciaBrysh

Getting beef af a decent price arouns here is nearly impossible =\


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## Itty bitty Kitty

Ah! How did I not notice this thread until now! This is SO saved in my files! Thank you so much!


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## SizeofSeven

Thank you so much for a wonderful post especially for us newbies!!

Jenn
- Seven, almost 6 month old Mantle Great Dane


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## Basco_The_Great (Pyr)

Awesome post! Thank you for writing it!


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## WildGingerGirl

*Great Post*

Hi. Just joined this forum. I just start feeding my Sheltie girls Primal and green tripe (about a month). Two of my older ones had been vomiting 1-2 times and they ate them all. Now I feel better after reading the FAQ. Thanks!!


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## carbonxxkidd

*What about mucous in poop?*

I'm experimenting with raw, feeding occasional raw meals/snacks to my doxie - I would like to go totally raw eventually with him. He has had chicken wings/drummies in the past, and looooooves liver. He had his first beef short rib last night and this afternoon he had some pretty mucousy stool. We also went to the dog park yesterday, and I'm not sure if the mucous is from the raw or from something like giardia that he could have picked up from the park? Any insight would be helpful. He seems to feel fine except for the first time in his entire life he barked at the door to tell me he needed to go out RIGHT NOW. Thanks in advance!


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## whiteleo

carbonxxkidd said:


> I'm experimenting with raw, feeding occasional raw meals/snacks to my doxie - I would like to go totally raw eventually with him. He has had chicken wings/drummies in the past, and looooooves liver. He had his first beef short rib last night and this afternoon he had some pretty mucousy stool. We also went to the dog park yesterday, and I'm not sure if the mucous is from the raw or from something like giardia that he could have picked up from the park? Any insight would be helpful. He seems to feel fine except for the first time in his entire life he barked at the door to tell me he needed to go out RIGHT NOW. Thanks in advance!


Pretty sure it's from the beef short rib as beef is very rich and usually the last protein added, did he eat the bone? cause if he did he just irritated his intestinal lining.


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## carbonxxkidd

He chewed up part of the bone but it seemed a little hard for him so I ended up taking it away once all the meat was gone. My other dog had the same thing (granted he's a 50lb mix, and 1 rib was nothing to him) and had absolutely no upset from it. Good to hear it was probably just the beef, I gave him some probiotics anyway to help ease his tummy. We'll probably stick with chicken from now on! I did buy some pork necks at the grocery store yesterday - are those as rich or should I hold off on feeding those too?


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## whiteleo

carbonxxkidd said:


> He chewed up part of the bone but it seemed a little hard for him so I ended up taking it away once all the meat was gone. My other dog had the same thing (granted he's a 50lb mix, and 1 rib was nothing to him) and had absolutely no upset from it. Good to hear it was probably just the beef, I gave him some probiotics anyway to help ease his tummy. We'll probably stick with chicken from now on! I did buy some pork necks at the grocery store yesterday - are those as rich or should I hold off on feeding those too?



Pork necks bought from the grocery store are cut with a saw and the odd shape of the bone can be hard on the intestinal lining...Avoid any bone that is cut with a saw to be on the safe side or just do an "Advanced search" on the type of bone your looking at, there is a wealth of info from the archives.


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## carbonxxkidd

whiteleo said:


> Pork necks bought from the grocery store are cut with a saw and the odd shape of the bone can be hard on the intestinal lining...Avoid any bone that is cut with a saw to be on the safe side or just do an "Advanced search" on the type of bone your looking at, there is a wealth of info from the archives.


Thank you! I will read up some more on it before I decide...if anything I might just cut the meat away and feed it to them that way.


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## vero

Hi, Im new in this. This is the second time im trying to make the switch, but my female German shorthaired pointer gets cold, eye goop, sneeze and agitated when shes lay down ( sounds wear). She has two x ray 3 months ago and was fine, its happen when i make the switch. IT S NORMAL????


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## DaneMama

Eye goo can be normal for the initial switch because of detox or just the simple switch of food. 

What exactly are you feeding and what kind of dog do you have?


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## vero

DaneMama said:


> Eye goo can be normal for the initial switch because of detox or just the simple switch of food.
> 
> What exactly are you feeding and what kind of dog do you have?


Hi, thanks for the answer, im from lima Peru, ( sorry for my english) here I dont have anybody to talk about raw feeding. My dog is a GSP german shorthaired pointer of 12 years old, female. I start with chicken and its the second time im trying to make the switch ( shes active, the digestion is great no vomits, the blood pressure and kidneys are great) but she gets cold everytime. The eye goop, sneeze, can be normal but shes agitated only when shes lay down (sounds wear, the chest, throat and nose) like bronchial asthma. Last night i was really worried but i found ECHINACEA and it help her a lot, now she breathing better like normal. She had 2 x rays 3 moths ago and she had few mucus in her lungs but she was ok, the breathing was normal. Im paranoid i lost my other dog of 9 1/2 years old ( the daughter) from lung cancer in june......... thanks.


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## DaneMama

How long has she had raw food before going back to kibble because of the cough?


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## vero

DaneMama said:


> How long has she had raw food before going back to kibble because of the cough?


Hi, 3 weeks ago I start with chicken only for one day( two meals) and she was agitated then I have to going back to kibble and now I make the switch only one meal and she has the same reaction. She doesnt have cough is only the breathing (agitated) when shes lay down.


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## DaneMama

Hmmmm.....maybe its the raw food that irritates her throat.


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## vero

DaneMama said:


> Hmmmm.....maybe its the raw food that irritates her throat.


 Hi, The irritation could be from the bones. Im going to tray only chiken meat without bones. Shes much better now, the wear sounds are gone, ECHINACEA is great. Do you know how long can I use it ?. (dosage). Now I give her 500mg three times a day, Is it to much?


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## DaneMama

I would not feed boneless chicken as it'll cause loose stools.

Try smashing the whole bone in chicken parts up with a hammer or kitchen mallet until its a mushy mess that's still one piece.


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## vero

DaneMama said:


> I would not feed boneless chicken as it'll cause loose stools.
> 
> Try smashing the whole bone in chicken parts up with a hammer or kitchen mallet until its a mushy mess that's still one piece.


Thanks, I will try that.


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## kpreston8242

What about grass eating? I grew up in the sticks where everyone said if a dog eats grass it's because he has worms. I'm 99% sure my puppy doesn't have worms but he seems to eat grass more now than before raw. Is there something I should be supplementing?


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## sozzle

My dog eats grass any chance he can, he loves it and no he doesn't have worms. Mind you he did when he was eating kibble when we first got him too. I think some dogs just like it but yes may be they are missing something from their diet or may be it helps to metabolise their food, I've never heard a sensible reason yet as to why some dogs do from raw feeders/vets/non raw feeders, either way it doesn't worry me in the least.


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## kathylcsw

Both of my dogs love to graze on grass. I had always heard it meant they had an upset stomach but I think they just like it.


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## GimMom

I have a question, as I've been dealing with skeptics about the PMR diet and their concerns about whether or not there's scientific studies to back up PMR. I'm not even sure how to respond to it, since I'm a raw newb. I know vets take issue with it, I'm guessing mostly because it cuts into their profits  Have many of you been doing this a long time? 

I try to explain to them that eating meat is what dogs do and have done for many years, eating small animals in the wild and consuming essentially the whole animal, plus the fact that their stomachs are acidic enough to break down harmful bacteria, etc. how do you guys respond to the people who are afraid or skeptical of PMR?


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## SKatey

I have the same question from my dad about the whole thing. 

I was wondering though. Jones is at the end of his second week on raw, and we have not had any hassles. Except maybe that he looks at me like "Where is the rest of it?" when he is finished eating. (I am feeding him according to his projected adult weight). My question is that every chance he gets he gulps down kibble from my parents dog. (I live in a flat on their property) I have asked my folks to try and help me with not letting my dog scavenge for food. Does anyone have any suggestions about training against scavenging. 

I'm at the point of leashing him every time he is outside of my flat. but my flat is rather small, and my folks have a great big yard, and Jones and their dog get along really well.


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## Celt

How old is Jones? I know that growing puppies need to eat more food but I'm not sure of the amounts though. There was a page on feeding puppies, not sure if it's still up though.


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## SKatey

Jones is almost 6 months old (dob 5/5/13) at 4 months old he weighed 17.5lbs, so by guesstimation he will be about 38lbs at full grown. I am feeding him 2.5% of that (0.9lbs per day) 

I have not introduced his second protein source as yet. I have to wait till the end of the month for that.


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## Sierra's Mom

I would love a how to post. I am not raw feeding at this time and would love to have some pointers on how to do it. We would like to start feeding our dog raw, and maybe eventually our cats too.


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## Celt

If you look for Danemama's posts, she had a link at the bottom that you could click that took you to a sight that has info on starting a prey model raw diet.


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## MollyWoppy

How to get started feeding a Prey Model Raw Diet - Raw Chat - PMR Articles - articles - Prey Model Raw

Raw Feeding 101

Good, uncomplicated places to start. If you are on Facebook, PM me and I'll give you a couple of excellent groups to join there. And good on you for wanting to start PMR, you won't regret it!


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