# Poor Takoda and Beau....they're so abused!



## Muttkip (Aug 18, 2011)

Excuse how fat Beau is in these, he has a water gut and yes Takoda is really really dirty but oh well and I think she looks quite nice for a Labraderp!


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## Muttkip (Aug 18, 2011)




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## Muttkip (Aug 18, 2011)




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## Muttkip (Aug 18, 2011)




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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Honestly Muttkip....these pictures don't seem to do your dogs any justice. I know that you care a lot about your dogs, and yes they do look healthy. But in these pictures they look unhappy and stressed. I'd love to see some action shots of them running and playing...not just standing tied up to something. 

What I pick up from these photos: 

head turns
lip flicking
squinty eyes
lowered head
appeasement stretching
yawning
turning away

These are all signs of stressed out dogs. Is it because you are taking their photo? It very well could be, lots of dogs are scared of cameras. But if they are that stressed out when you take their picture, maybe try and sneak a few when they aren't looking or not taking their pictures at all. Or taking pictures when they don't feel trapped on a tether.


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

Awww...your Beagle looks bored, lonely, and confused. And Takoda is beautiful....but she looks sad...I would love to see both of them playing!:smile:


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## Muttkip (Aug 18, 2011)

Scarlett_O' said:


> Awww...your Beagle looks bored, lonely, and confused. And Takoda is beautiful....but she looks sad...I would love to see both of them playing!:smile:


None of which they're NOT.


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## hmbutler (Aug 4, 2011)

Muttkip said:


> None of which they're NOT.


I think you mean ALL of which they're not... the double negative there implies you agree with Abi's statement lol


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## Muttkip (Aug 18, 2011)

hmbutler said:


> I think you mean ALL of which they're not... the double negative there implies you agree with Abi's statement lol


Sorry lack of sleep....they're VERY happy dogs, def. not bored, sad, or confused....Beau always looks like that no matter what it's like his default face and Takoda well she's still iffy about the camera.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Muttkip said:


> Sorry lack of sleep....they're VERY happy dogs, def. not bored, sad, or confused....Beau always looks like that no matter what it's like his default face and Takoda well she's still iffy about the camera.


If this is how Beau always looks....he's not a happy dog. You can research dog expressions yourself and see what you come up with. Maybe he's just a sad dog by default no matter what you do with him, but I highly doubt that. I have a feeling that he always has these types of facial expressions because he's always stressed out. The best thing you can do is figure out what is stressing him so regularly and try to change it.


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## stajbs (Jun 5, 2010)

Muttkip, I'm afraid I see sad/stressed dogs. I was once where you are. We joined the dog world when we got involved in Siberians, and we ran a rec sled dog team. Many sled dog folks tether, but many also rotate dogs through the house. We tethered dogs, two dogs outside for about 6 months, during that time we had hardware failures(hard pulling huskies, and hardware does not last forever),so you can imagine we chased loose dogs in danger of getting injured in any number of ways, then we built indoor/outdoor kennels. So the two siberians had a fully enclosed structure with pet doors they could exit into the chain link outer part of the kennel. In the winter they had their dog houses in the enclosed area and tons of straw for bedding, it was like a manger scene. We then addded two more sibes to the pack, and with the kennel being 10'by 26' total we felt comfortable, and the personalities of the dogs meshed well, but they were carefully selected for personality first and foremost. The next summer we added on to the enclosed and open structure to give the dogs more space, so it grew another 10'by 20' long this time, so one side was shorter. There were two separate gates into two separate areas total, plus doors into the enclosed back section. About that time we lost our minds and rescued two more siberians. They were added to the mix. The dogs were free to move about in their respective kennels. We also started to have a health issue with one of the dogs and the another dog was freaked by all loud noises(thunder, fireworks etc.), she literally tore the chain link fencing apart at the bottom and managed not to strangle herself getting out of the kennel. Oh, and we had Blaze then and he could leap 6 ' fencing in a single bound. So, a topper was put onto the outer part of the chain link kennel. At the same time this was all going on I was nudging my spouse into realizing dogs and humans have better stronger relationships when they can be shared indoors. I explained to him that the bond was different, and more fulfilling. So, despite always having enough crates to bring dogs indoors in severe cold, or heat, he caved and the most senior dog with beginning health issues moved in full time, and two other dogs were rotated through the house every night. The bonds did grow stronger, the dogs were happier, so were we, and I think they even ran better as a team. We never had more than 6 sibes at a time, but after we started rotating them into the house there were 3 a night inside, playing and just downright happy to be closer to their people. My husband had a thing with dog hair, he had a thing with dogs on the furniture, and many of the things he said "never" to, such as dogs living inside changed. He decided he would never say never again. lol 

For us, we feel we have come full circle. We did spend lots of time working with our dogs when they were outside but I always felt guilty, and I was so thrilled when I got him to agree to the rotation into the house. As that grew on him, he eventually caved and they all came in. By that time we were down to 4 furkids and the dogs were getting older so I was also thrilled to share their remaining time indoors. I still have crates in the house and in our mudroom and basement. Sometimes I have to use them, mostly I don't. (Using one in the mudroom now with the addition of a new rescue, who came in with fleas) Our grandson will be two this week and hubby watches him 2 times per week, so when he finally began crawling we had to monitor things closely. They are quite fond of him, he is the source of many flavors and smells, and licking his fingers seems to be their favorite thing. Concurrently our grandson has been learning how to treat dogs. He has learned the crates are their special space, he even calls the dogs to put them into their crates, but obviously we still need to close them. It has been very fulfilling to have gone from dogs outside, to dogs part time and full time inside, to having dogs and a baby, and now a toddler inside. It's taken some work, crates, and child gates to manage but it has been an experience I would not trade.

Plus I hate to say it, but now that I have lived with a dog in my house, I'll never go back. I have one final thought and it still sticks in my craw and is a deep wound...while we were rotating dogs in the house each night, I made the decision to bring in certain dogs one night. I made the wrong decision, it may have changed nothing, I'll never know for sure, but in the morning when I went outside I found Ice had passed. He was our youngest, and I had seen him in the outer part of the kennel moving about normally when the dogs were taken out to do their business that night, but by 6:30AM the next morning he was gone. I found him that way, and it is a devestating memory, it haunts me. If I had brought him in that night would we have known something was wrong and been able to get him veterinary attention in time...who knows. Well I have to admit reliving this has got me crying so I am done, but I hope you will consider some of the pros to sharing life with your dogs inside when it's possible.


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

Poor dogs. 
I see a lot of anxiety there, look at the body language given by both of them... and is that seriously a 6 foot leach used as a tie out?!

I usually really enjoy the photos section because I like to look at happy, healthy dogs getting to be dogs. Running, playing, etc. 
But this is upsetting. It's two under stimulated dogs on chains taken from several angles.

And forgive me, but I couldn't help noticing... is that lab in heat, tied outside, or is she always that swollen?


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## Muttkip (Aug 18, 2011)

PuppyPaws said:


> Poor dogs.
> I see a lot of anxiety there, look at the body language given by both of them... and is that seriously a 6 foot leach used as a tie out?!
> 
> I usually really enjoy the photos section because I like to look at happy, healthy dogs getting to be dogs. Running, playing, etc.
> ...


Yes she is in heat, and no she does NOT live on a 6 foot leash she actually lives in a well built dog pen. Also I don't tie her out on it, she was tied there to get pictures of her after her 5 mile run. And no they're not sad or stressed dogs as you guys say......if you met them in person you'd completely think differently.


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

wait. You leave a dog in heat outside....
seriously?
SERIOUSLY?

Are you aware of how *insanely *irresponsible that is? Why is she not spayed anyway?


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## Muttkip (Aug 18, 2011)

PuppyPaws said:


> wait. You leave a dog in heat outside....
> seriously?
> SERIOUSLY?


Oh good grief, while she lives outside, during her heat she's crated in the laundry room and is taken out for exercise and potty breaks.


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## CavePaws (Jan 25, 2011)

I want you to put a collar around your neck, then hook a decent sized chain up to it, and let it drag around with you for a week. 24/7. 
My dogs don't even wear their collars half the time. It looks uncomfortable. I can't imagine what dragging a leash or a chain around would feel like after a long time. It must suck.

The only people I've ever known who left their dogs chained outside their entire lives are realllllllllyyyy crappy owners. They're actually my relatives and I can't stand them. They know we will never agree about the way an animal should be cared for. :/ Just to put it in perspective, a dog my grandfather kept chained it's entire life got off it's chain one night, a goat was killed, and the dog who got off his chain was shot. They didn't see the dog in question killing the goat, there were even other loose dogs. What makes someone able to isolate an animal it's entire life then kill it when it obtains freedom is beyond me.

Anyway. I've seen you're whole spiel - "my current living situation does not allow for my dog to live inside", and while I respect that, you've stated multiple times your beagle has been an outdoor dog his entire life. 9 years was it? That doesn't quite make your living situation pertinent to the topic. 

I agree, I see stressed dogs. Not _particularly _your beagle. But the lab girl, she looks pretty sketched out about what is going on.


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## Muttkip (Aug 18, 2011)

CavePaws said:


> I want you to put a collar around your neck, then hook a decent sized chain up to it, and let it drag around with you for a week. 24/7.
> My dogs don't even wear their collars half the time. It looks uncomfortable. I can't imagine what dragging a leash or a chain around would feel like after a long time. It must suck.
> 
> The only people I've ever known who left their dogs chained outside their entire lives are realllllllllyyyy crappy owners. They're actually my relatives and I can't stand them. They know we will never agree about the way an animal should be cared for. :/ Just to put it in perspective, a dog my grandfather kept chained it's entire life got off it's chain one night, a goat was killed, and the dog who got off his chain was shot. They didn't see the dog in question killing the goat, there were even other loose dogs. What makes someone able to isolate an animal it's entire life then kill it when it obtains freedom is beyond me.
> ...


Oh just shut up already, you guys are like freaking broken records, I don't care what you think about chaining or how I keep my dogs, they're MY dogs and MY property. And the damn dogs are fine in these pictures geez.


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

spay your dog.


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## Muttkip (Aug 18, 2011)

PuppyPaws said:


> spay your dog.


No I'm not going to. I know how to keep an intact dog and there is no point in me spaying her if I can keep her contained and away from intact male dogs. Not to mention she's a hunting prospect as well as weight pull prospect as well.


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

Muttkip said:


> Oh just shut up already, you guys are like freaking broken records, I don't care what you think about chaining or how I keep my dogs, they're MY dogs and MY property. And the damn dogs are fine in these pictures geez.


Doesn't matter if you care or not: you posted on an open forum, you're gonna get honest opinions. 
If you can't handle that, then that little red X in the top right of your screen will be your best bet. Feel free to click it at any time.


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## Muttkip (Aug 18, 2011)

PuppyPaws said:


> Doesn't matter if you care or not: you posted on an open forum, you're gonna get honest opinions.
> If you can't handle that, then that little red X in the top right of your screen will be your best bet. Feel free to click it at any time.


I actually came to this forum for feeding advice and cause I love dogs just like everyone else, not for freaking bash fest....no wonder this forum has a reputation about being a furmommy heaven!


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

Muttkip said:


> No I'm not going to. I know how to keep an intact dog and there is no point in me spaying her if I can keep her contained and away from intact male dogs. Not to mention she's a hunting prospect as well as weight pull prospect as well.


Is she even a purebred dog, because she doesn't look like it. 

And have you done ALL health testing on her? 

If not, then I like you even less.....


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

WOW....I cant even imagine having a dog who is in heat outside....even just taking her for a run is SUPER irresponsible...and its not like she is some great specimen of her breed(what ever that is) and shouldnt be spayed anyways!

Spay your girl.


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## CavePaws (Jan 25, 2011)

Muttkip said:


> No I'm not going to. I know how to keep an intact dog and there is no point in me spaying her if I can keep her contained and away from intact male dogs. Not to mention she's a hunting prospect as well as weight pull prospect as well.


Do you have a pedigree on her?
She doesn't look to be pure lab. I don't see why you would want to breed her.

I have a nice agility prospect. She's spayed though. Doesn't make her any less of a nice agility dog though.


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## Muttkip (Aug 18, 2011)

PuppyPaws said:


> Is she even a purebred dog, because she doesn't look like it.
> 
> And have you done ALL health testing on her?
> 
> If not, then I like you even less.....


She's a Mountain Cur/Lab mix, a hunting mix. She's not going to be bred EVER. I just prefer to have intact dogs.


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## CavePaws (Jan 25, 2011)

Then why even mention that she is a nice hunting prospect or weight pull prospect? It's beside the point that she is intact.


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## hmbutler (Aug 4, 2011)

Muttkip said:


> She's a Mountain Cur/Lab mix, a hunting mix. She's not going to be bred EVER. *I just prefer to have intact dogs.*


May I ask why? How will spaying her hurt her hunting and/or weight pulling abilities?


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

I will simply agree to disagree. 

Just beware of silent heats... heats with NO symptoms, for which your female dog would be outside. 

I don't think there's anything wrong with not spaying dogs, shoot, I WILL be breeding mine, but to keep an in tact animal outside is so irresponsible I can't even fathom what might make someone to do it. Silent heats are NOT uncommon. 

And I didn't even know we HAD a reputation! I did the the post on PBC that was removed, that just the entire flood of new bully people contributed to, and I'm well aware of how much the whole lot of you dislikes this forum and the people. Aside from that thread on that forum, I've seen DFC recommended on MANY breed specific forums across the web, and we have an excellent friendly group established here of people quite happy with this place. If that;s not the case for you, again.... the red X... you can use it any time you wish.


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## Muttkip (Aug 18, 2011)

hmbutler said:


> May I ask why? How will spaying her hurt her hunting and/or weight pulling abilities?


Simple I DON'T want her spayed. I've never spayed or neutered my dogs unless they came from the shelter and that was required. It's my dog and so long as I can contain her and keep intact males away from her to keep her from being bred, what does it matter if she's spayed or not? Beau is intact as well and I've never had an issue with him.


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## CavePaws (Jan 25, 2011)

Muttkip said:


> Simple I DON'T want her spayed. I've never spayed or neutered my dogs unless they came from the shelter and that was required. It's my dog and so long as I can contain her and keep intact males away from her to keep her from being bred, what does it matter if she's spayed or not? Beau is intact as well and I've never had an issue with him.


:|

You're proving to be less and less responsible by the post. I don't mind responsible and knowledgeable people not spaying/neutering their dogs - especially if they plan to breed the dog or do showing. But you have no reason AND you leave your dog outside unattended. In my opinion, people like you are unwittingly creating a lot of problems with one accidental breeding. Do you know how many people leave intact female dogs unattended outside in the U.S? What if all of them had an accidental litter in their lives. What if some of those puppies grew up to be unattended intact female dogs having more accidental litters? Our shelters are already flowing over. :/ Spay your dog...There are lots of places that will actually do it for free now.


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## newlndnfire (Aug 19, 2011)

I just wanted to let you know that there are health problems that can be caused by not spaying. I think it causes cancer in the mammary glands? Someone correct me if I'm wrong. Just because you've never had a problem before doesn't mean you won't have a problem this time. 

Also, why is your girl kept in a kennel and not your boy? It would be better for them both to be in a kennel and away from animals that could harm them. Is it an indoor/outdoor kennel?


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## hmbutler (Aug 4, 2011)

Muttkip said:


> Simple I DON'T want her spayed. I've never spayed or neutered my dogs unless they came from the shelter and that was required. It's my dog and so long as I can contain her and keep intact males away from her to keep her from being bred, what does it matter if she's spayed or not? Beau is intact as well and I've never had an issue with him.


well then applying that logic, if you are dead set you will not be showing or breeding, why NOT get them fixed? What does it matter? I've just been raised with the idea that if you arent breeding, get cats and dogs fixed as soon as they're old enough, so you dont end up with an unwanted litter that ends up in a shelter (as well as other benefits RE aggresion etc). I sometimes wonder if you post here HOPING to pick a fight, based on the way you structure your arguments...


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Muttkip, if you have come here for nutritional advice...why the heck do you keep posting up pictures of your dogs chained up, tied up...etc when you know for a FACT that us "furmommies" don't like seeing dogs being kept in this manner? 

Why not keep to getting all the nutritional advice you've come here to get? Looking at all the posts you've made here, NONE of them have anything to do with nutrition whatsoever. It seems like you have another agenda...because to be quite honest this is the 6th thread you've posted with nothing but pictures of your dogs tied up and it's getting quite old. Honestly it seems like you have this need to stir the pot here. Which really isn't our style. So far...we've all been sucked in but now....I'm just done. 

http://dogfoodchat.com/forum/search.php?searchid=190686

I will continue to pride myself being a damn good "furmommy" to my dogs.


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## kady05 (Jul 29, 2011)

You guys are truly amazing.. someone posts pictures and everyone jumps on in to bash them. Nice "welcome to the forum!" committee. 

As someone who photographs LOTS of dogs (I take pictures of shelter dogs), I don't see "sad" dogs. I see dogs who really aren't a fan of the camera, and dogs that have the attitude of "Meh, this is not what I planned for my day"

I guess since you're basing a dog emotions off one set of pictures, that Sako is abused and "sad" in this one?










Head low, can't get any lower actually
Whites of eyes showing nervousness or insecurity

I could go on. And I could post an entire set of Piper looking "sad" if you want; it's "her", she has a serious look in almost all of her pictures.

The close-mindedness of this forum really amazes me.


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

A simple matter of differing opinions does not make either side close minded by default. 
But, mutt has posted several threads of chained up dogs, knows the general disapproval, and continues to do so... so I'm not sure where the disbelief in the general outcry of disapproval comes. In my opinion, they post with one goal and one goal only: to get a reaction. Congrats to them, they got it! I don't buy that they came here to learn about raw for a second. The MULTIPLE set of dirty, chained up, miserable looking dogs has kind of proven that fact.
I could go to a number of other forums and point the close minded finger, but unlike the recent flood of PBC folks, I prefer to frequent forums that I actually like, rather than come on board, piss some people off, post things for NO reason other to bother people, and then go congregate to talk crap about how stupid everyone else is for not sharing a like opinion.

I can not believe I'm closing a thread in the freaking PICTURES section of this forum, I don't know that's ever even been necessary before. This is going nowhere good, and going fast. 

Something has changed about the "feel" of DFC in the last week, and I don't like it. I don't like it at all. Third thread shut down this week.


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## Ethel (Aug 14, 2011)

People here don't like to see chained dogs, I can't see any close mindedness about that. It is unnatural and cruel to let a dog spend it's life in chains. If that means to be "furmommies" be it.
And as about this forum, it is the most helpful forum I have ever been on and I'm new here. I learned so much and I'm still learning a lot about my puppy's diet. People here have been very helpful and I'm grateful for that. If I don't like something I don't have to read it.


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