# a dacshund attacked winston today



## RCTRIPLEFRESH5 (Feb 11, 2010)

and wisnton was so good....he ran away with me. stupid owner couldn't control her 10 pound dacshund.....she's lucky my dog is friendly


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Very bad owner. Yes, she is lucky Winston is good natured. I'm glad he is!


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## hmbutler (Aug 4, 2011)

I was walking Duke past this really nice grassy area near a creek the other day, and thought I'd detour off the path and walk across the grass... we got down the track, and there was a guy there with two dogs off the leash, one big dog and one tiny tiny thing... the big dog stayed with the owner, just chased his ball and what not, wasn't too fussed about us, but the tiny dog (don't even know what it was, it didn't look like a chi, but it was miniature!) came charging up to us and yapping it's face off... and the guy made absolutely no attempt to get it to come back... he just stared at us

And lately Duke has had issues with other dogs when he is on his lead - if he's off-leash and playing with dogs, everyone is his BFF, he does not discriminate lol, but on his leash, it's like he feels the need to protect me (after an incident with some rather nasty dogs) and he barks and pulls on his leash etc. So when I realised there were other dogs, I tried to drag him away back up to the footpath, and avoid the dogs altogether. But this yappy little shit just kept following up barking its nut off... I wanted to go punch the owner in the face, he had absolutely no control over it, yet he let it off-leash (in an area that has big signs saying "dogs on leash at all times"). He's lucky I could keep hold of Duke, because one paw out of place and he could've popped that little dog!!

Just because your dog is small doesn't mean you don't have to have control over it!! Grr

Glad Winston had the sense to follow you calmly... I have to use all my strength with Duke lol


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5 (Feb 11, 2010)

yeah the dog had no leash i think he ran out of her house...although i can understand that accidents do happen...admittedly there was a time when shane got outta the house and i had to tackle him to get inside ha...that was when we first got him


xellil said:


> Very bad owner. Yes, she is lucky Winston is good natured. I'm glad he is!


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

How do you know the doxie was attacking? That just doesn't sound right. :smile:


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## werecatrising (Oct 15, 2010)

Quinn has been attacked by both a jack russel and a daschund, so I wouldn't doubt it.


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## malluver1005 (Nov 15, 2009)

Aspen has been attacked by a 5 lb. chihuahua! He just stared down at the chi while it was biting his front feet.


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## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

There's a little white dog up the road called Suzie who is notorious for straining at her flexi to get to other dogs. 
She came charging out of the garage one day and attacked Mollie as we were walking along (Mol on her leash). Mol defended herself as I would expect her to - it happened so quickly I couldn't get Mol behind me and tell her that I'd take care of it. Mol didn't bite, just a lot of noise for a couple of seconds before Suzie realised she had bitten off more than she could chew and the owner comes out, picks up Suzie and goes back inside the house going, 'poor Suzie, attacked by that stupid mongrel'. Bitch.
So, Suzie gets out of the garage again last week, charged out and Mol stood her ground, stared at her and Suzie runs back inside the garage barking her head off. But, a dog like that, no leash, not under control and having its bad behaviour reinforced is going to get hurt one day by a dog without bite inhibition. And, you can guarantee the owner will be the first one to complain.

You have reason to be proud of Winston RC. He certainly sounds like a real honey.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Rebel has been "attacked" by a little dog whose owner is an idiot. The dog has charged at us several times while we walk. It seemed like he wasn't playing, but when it happened I was more concerned about Rebels' reaction than what the little dog looks like. The dog did nip Rebel on the leg once. Each time, the owner was standing in his yard and said/did nothing, so we just continued to walk down the street with the dog on our heels until he decided we were out of his territory and went home. Luckily, Rebel is the perfect dog and would never fight with a dog like that.

And we don't walk on a leash. That man doesn't know that Rebel won't chase that dog back into his yard and tear him apart because i have no physical controls on him.

Which is why, in general, I am not crazy about little dogs. People don't teach them manners like they do a dog that's larger. Yapping, neurotic behavior is not my thing. And I am sure there are some dogs who don't take that kind of approach with the same kind of attitude that Rebel does - people are truly risking death when they let a little dog do that, even if they are not truly serious about an attack.


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## schtuffy (May 17, 2010)

My friend own's a dachshund who was not properly trained and socialized...she inadvertently rewards him for his bad behavior. He is very aggressive and has bitten quite a few people hwell: I love him, but she's lucky the people he has bitten happen to be friends, otherwise he'd be put down for sure. 

Anyways, I'm glad Winston is ok!


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

schtuffy said:


> My friend own's a dachshund who was not properly trained and socialized...she inadvertently rewards him for his bad behavior. He is very aggressive and has bitten quite a few people hwell: I love him, but she's lucky the people he has bitten happen to be friends, otherwise he'd be put down for sure.
> 
> Anyways, I'm glad Winston is ok!


That's exactly what I mean - apparently dachshunds can be nasty little buggers. My assumption on seeing ANY small dog is that it's going to be a dog I don't like, and it has to prove otherwise.

I used to have a friend with a mini schnauzer and she wanted to walk in the mornings - that would have been great except her dog barked at me nonstop, attacked my dog several times, and in general made life so miserable i quit after 3 days,


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## Donna Little (May 31, 2011)

xellil said:


> Rebel has been "attacked" by a little dog whose owner is an idiot. The dog has charged at us several times while we walk. It seemed like he wasn't playing, but when it happened I was more concerned about Rebels' reaction than what the little dog looks like. The dog did nip Rebel on the leg once. Each time, the owner was standing in his yard and said/did nothing, so we just continued to walk down the street with the dog on our heels until he decided we were out of his territory and went home. Luckily, Rebel is the perfect dog and would never fight with a dog like that.
> 
> And we don't walk on a leash. That man doesn't know that Rebel won't chase that dog back into his yard and tear him apart because i have no physical controls on him.
> 
> Which is why, in general, I am not crazy about little dogs. People don't teach them manners like they do a dog that's larger. Yapping, neurotic behavior is not my thing. And I am sure there are some dogs who don't take that kind of approach with the same kind of attitude that Rebel does - people are truly risking death when they let a little dog do that, even if they are not truly serious about an attack.


I have 9 small dogs and have had others before them that have passed away. I don't understand anyone that allows their small dog to act like an idiot (well, I guess it's because the owner is an idiot) just because they're small. I have one out of 9 that doesn't know how to be appropriate when he meets new dogs. He's fine with other dogs after about 30 mins but he wants to be dominate and he'd most assuredly get his ass kicked. So, he isn't allowed to put himself in those situations. This is Toby I'm talking about and he probably doesn't act better than that because I do tend to spoil him a lot because of his health issues. And I think he's a bit more defensive around larger dogs because he instinctively knows he's weak. 
Years ago I was walking my English Setter and my neighbors across the street had his Neopolitan Mastiffs out running loose. They immediately started running toward me when they saw us coming. I was yelling for the owner to contain them and he said, "Oh don't worry their friendly." Well I've met his dogs on several occasions and they were friendly but my dog was scared, hackles up, backing away and starting to panic. I told the guy that I knew his dogs were nice but my dog doesn't know that and he's about a third their size. So when my guy decides he needs to fight them off guess who'll lose?
I just hate it when anyone puts their own dog in danger because of their own stupidity whether they're big or small.


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5 (Feb 11, 2010)

why not lol. If i had to predict whether a large or small dog would attack id put money on the small lol. i used to know a dachshund when i was a id and i was scare to get off the school bus in case it was at the bus stop ready to chase me home(although i used to be scared of dogs ha)
even though it was just a dacshund i examined winston and was scared it;d hurt my boy 
the owner came running to me and said ''im so sorry..he;d never bite anyone'' The dog was growling though.


RawFedDogs said:


> How do you know the doxie was attacking? That just doesn't sound right. :smile:


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5 (Feb 11, 2010)

Donna Little said:


> I have 9 small dogs and have had others before them that have passed away. I don't understand anyone that allows their small dog to act like an idiot (well, I guess it's because the owner is an idiot) just because they're small. I have one out of 9 that doesn't know how to be appropriate when he meets new dogs. He's fine with other dogs after about 30 mins but he wants to be dominate and he'd most assuredly get his ass kicked. So, he isn't allowed to put himself in those situations. This is Toby I'm talking about and he probably doesn't act better than that because I do tend to spoil him a lot because of his health issues. And I think he's a bit more defensive around larger dogs because he instinctively knows he's weak.
> Years ago I was walking my English Setter and my neighbors across the street had his Neopolitan Mastiffs out running loose. They immediately started running toward me when they saw us coming. I was yelling for the owner to contain them and he said, "Oh don't worry their friendly." Well I've met his dogs on several occasions and they were friendly but my dog was scared, hackles up, backing away and starting to panic. I told the guy that I knew his dogs were nice but my dog doesn't know that and he's about a third their size. So when my guy decides he needs to fight them off guess who'll lose?
> I just hate it when anyone puts their own dog in danger because of their own stupidity whether they're big or small.


wow that sounds like a scary situation and you said mastiffSS how many? also t the end of your post were you implying your dog would win?

but man id be terrified if that happened!!!


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

> I don't understand anyone that allows their small dog to act like an idiot (well, I guess it's because the owner is an idiot) just because they're small.


That may be me. Snorkels is my first small dog and I have to admit I ask her to do nothing - not even sit. She doesn't want to and she obviouly starts getting stressed and upset when I try to correct her from anything - even with a treat. She'll do it but she hates it. And with her background, do I really care that much? She never gets in trouble and is rarely annoying.


But she does have a bad habit - if someone walks up to the car window while she is in her car seat, or if we are parked next to a motorcycle, she just goes nuts with this kind of scary attack mode. And sometimes she will do it to people coming in the house, but not all the time. If I could stop her from that without causing her any upset I would, but I haven't figured out how. Even if I try to block her from walking past me and she wants to go past me, she gets visibly upset. And I don't think it's manipulation, it's kind of a panic.

She never does it with dogs - in fact, if a strange dog comes up to her she just freezes and acts like she wants to be invisible.

But we had the realtor come to our house yesterday and she did it to him - he was pretty much blindsided because he was checking out Rebel, who I had laying down because he gets excited when visitors come. So he walked to Rebel to stick his fist out and all of a sudden there was this little psyco dog attacking his shoes. 

She looks so cute, and so old, and so benign, that when we are out and about and the window is open people want to walk up and say hello and if I am distracted with Rebel i don't always see them. She can't hurt anyone because of her lack of teeth. 

So if someone could tell me how to stop that without upsetting her and without making her mind me, I would be happy to try it. It's the only thing she ever does that I consider really inappropriate.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> the owner came running to me and said ''im so sorry..he;d never bite anyone'' The dog was growling though.


They all say that. Like the German shepherd at the dog park, who came at Rebel with serious intent. When I stepped between them, the owner said his dog was just trying to play because his tail was wagging, he'd never fight.

About 2 minutes later his dog attacked a golden retriever who got along with everyone in the dog park. I still see the fellow, but he is walking his dog outside the dog park, under control on a leash. I guess he finally got it through his thick skull (and being sued for vet bills) that maybe a wagging tail doesn't always mean "I love you."


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## Donna Little (May 31, 2011)

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> wow that sounds like a scary situation and you said mastiffSS how many? also t the end of your post were you implying your dog would win?
> 
> but man id be terrified if that happened!!!


Good lord no, my dog would've been torn to shreds if those dogs had decided they didn't like his defensive attitude. That's why it annoyed me so much that he let his dogs run loose all the time. I'd put them in my fence several times when they were out running down the middle of the street to keep them from being hit by a car. He had 2, a breeding pair so they were both unaltered. Another reason I was afraid of their reaction to my dog. If his female had been in heat would his male have felt like he needed to guard her? Possibly and my dog would've been the victim. People can sometimes just be dumb....


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## 3Musketeers (Nov 4, 2010)

Ugghh, it bothers me so much to see how some people treat their small dogs like babies and let them get away with anything. And the funny thing is THEY get mad when your dog defends itself from the little monster. NO, they they not own a dog if they are going to let it terrorize everyone and everything in the neighborhood. If winston wasn't a nice dog, that little bugger could have been torn to shreds.

Admittedly my dogs aren't as trained or socialized as they can be (me being a hermit myself doesn't help). But there are limits, I have never tolerated any kind of aggression from my dogs, so while they may be an in-your-face I wanna play brat, a little shy, or a growling grumpy-pants when another dog starts being too playful, they know better than to go around trying to bark at or attack other dogs or people.


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## Donna Little (May 31, 2011)

xellil said:


> That may be me. Snorkels is my first small dog and I have to admit I ask her to do nothing - not even sit. She doesn't want to and she obviouly starts getting stressed and upset when I try to correct her from anything - even with a treat. She'll do it but she hates it. And with her background, do I really care that much? She never gets in trouble and is rarely annoying.
> 
> 
> But she does have a bad habit - if someone walks up to the car window while she is in her car seat, or if we are parked next to a motorcycle, she just goes nuts with this kind of scary attack mode. And sometimes she will do it to people coming in the house, but not all the time. If I could stop her from that without causing her any upset I would, but I haven't figured out how. Even if I try to block her from walking past me and she wants to go past me, she gets visibly upset. And I don't think it's manipulation, it's kind of a panic.
> ...


I'll be the first to admit that it's hard to get onto some of the little guys because, well, they're little. My main issue with mine is barking. And I realize that it's their mode of communication, they just sometimes have too much to say for my liking. 
My guys all have different personalities. 
Madison is my 17 yr old Dachshund and she has always been a nearly perfect dog. She has never done anything annoying. Listens, never barks, housetrained from the age of 10 weeks, outgoing, friendly, well mannered with all other animals. 
Lily is my 13 yr old Chihuahua. She'll bark at someone but is very friendly with everyone. She'll also put a "forward" dog in it's place but is never an instigator. Just wants to hang out on your lap. Pretty much any lap'll do.
Bailey my 10 yr old Min Pin is a hyperactive non-stop beast. She goes til she drops so wouldn't be the dog for just anyone but as far as meeting new dogs and people she's "okay." She can be nervous around strangers but would never bite. She is also intimidated by larger dogs so will bark at them if she feels threatened but also is never an instigator.
Briana is my 11 yr old Min Pin. She is an absolute angel. Sweet but takes a few minutes to warm up to new people. With strange dogs she prefers to avoid them because she's SUPER submissive and gets intimidated. She is always my peacekeeper if any of my guys growl at each other. She'll get between them and lick their faces and roll over on her back. I wish she had more confidence but it apparently works for her.
Toby is my 10 yr old Chi and he's a brat. I admit it. A typical Chi, big attitude, little body. Will bite people or other dogs if given the chance so I have to watch him around everyone. He is strangely enough quite fond of children though. Go figure...
Angel is my 7 yr old Chi. Also not to be trusted around strangers but is fine with other dogs. She has to get to know people before she'll interact with them. She doesn't really love large dogs but will just avoid them. She has been attacked by a larger dog though so I kinda get it.
Camden my 3 yr old Chi loves everyone. REALLY, REALLY, loves them. Way more than most people would want. People probably think he's neglected when they come over because he acts so starved for attention. He can get a little intimidated by larger dogs but is still fine with all sizes. 
Karma is my 3 yr old Doxie mix. She and Camden are like 2 peas in a pod. Someone could break in the house, kill me, steal all our worldly goods and she'd jump right in the car and go home with them. 
Sabrina is the baby. She a one yr old Doxie mix. This is my husband's heart dog. She is SOOOO cute and a total pain in the ass. No manners, barks at everything, will lunge at people and has been this way from the day I pulled her out of the pound. If I get onto her or try to work with her in any way my husband undoes all of it because he lets her do anything she wants to do. Thank goodness she is small and easy to control or I'd probably be tempted to strangle her....:wacko:
All in all considering the number of little bodies running around in my house I suppose it's pretty under control.


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## minnieme (Jul 6, 2011)

3Musketeers said:


> Ugghh, it bothers me so much to see how some people treat their small dogs like babies and let them get away with anything.


I've noticed this a lot too. Having Minnie has really opened my eyes to the biases of dog size. I know that more often than not, if a small dog were to come charging at Minnie with full intent to attack, Minnie would get blamed....either for somehow inciting it ("She scared my little baby!") or from a warning growl to back off ("She's vicious!"). Minnie has never growled at another dog (she has growled at some male humans though) but overall she is exceedingly tolerant. However, because of her size, she can't EVER put a toe out of line... or I know I could be in a lot of trouble. That's why I make training so important in our lives... I want her to be a great ambassador for her breed, but I also know the big dog is always going to get blamed over the small dog. Similarly, little dogs I've seen get away with so much (pulling on a leash, jumping up, biting, etc) -- just because it might not be physically dangerous if your dog acts like a jerk, it still shouldn't get to.

Sorry...rant.... :wink:


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Donna Little said:


> I'll be the first to admit that it's hard to get onto some of the little guys because, well, they're little. My main issue with mine is barking. And I realize that it's their mode of communication, they just sometimes have too much to say for my liking.
> My guys all have different personalities.
> Madison is my 17 yr old Dachshund and she has always been a nearly perfect dog. She has never done anything annoying. Listens, never barks, housetrained from the age of 10 weeks, outgoing, friendly, well mannered with all other animals.
> Lily is my 13 yr old Chihuahua. She'll bark at someone but is very friendly with everyone. She'll also put a "forward" dog in it's place but is never an instigator. Just wants to hang out on your lap. Pretty much any lap'll do.
> ...



Awwww. I love your house and I've never been there. You are a senior citizen home!

snorkels isn't a barker except she tells me when it's dinnertime - she gets all settled into position in the middle of the rug (this takes a couple of minutes) and then she spins on her rear, barking in every direction just in case we can't hear her. 

And she barks to get Rebel upset. If things get too calm for her she'll bark out the door when there''s nothing there, and of course he runs over woofing like crazy and she trots off with a big grin on her face. 

She's no idiot, that's for sure. But she totally shuts down around other dogs and people she doesn't know. No one really ever sees her personality outside the yard. 

But she is so cute - when we go to laser therapy, there are people now who have heard about her so each time she usually has a photo or two taken of her when we go in. That's because she is getting used to the folks there and does her cute thing when we go in.


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## minnieme (Jul 6, 2011)

xellil said:


> snorkels isn't a barker except she tells me when it's dinnertime - she gets all settled into position in the middle of the rug (this takes a couple of minutes) and then she spins on her rear, barking in every direction just in case we can't hear her.


The image of that made me laugh out loud....you really need to get that on video!!!!! :biggrin:


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

If a small dog comes charging at my dog(s) and me, my normal behavior is to just drop the leash. Let my dog handle it. More times than not, it just ends with barking and nothing more. If the other dog wants more, he gets more. That has been very rare.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

i can't even take a #$$*% decent photo - all you folks with your great photos make me jealous! I wish I could, though, it is really hilarious.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

RawFedDogs said:


> If a small dog comes charging at my dog(s) and me, my normal behavior is to just drop the leash. Let my dog handle it. More times than not, it just ends with barking and nothing more. If the other dog wants more, he gets more. That has been very rare.


You know, that is very true. My dog is much more reactive on a leash. It's one reason we don't walk with one on. I sometimes wonder if it's some psychological thing, like he feels trapped.

In the yard, also - if he's behind the fence he will go nuts at people or dogs walking by. If he's out in the yard with no barrier, he just looks at them.


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## minnieme (Jul 6, 2011)

RawFedDogs said:


> If a small dog comes charging at my dog(s) and me, my normal behavior is to just drop the leash. Let my dog handle it. More times than not, it just ends with barking and nothing more. If the other dog wants more, he gets more. That has been very rare.


I'm sure your dogs are phenomenally well trained so this doesn't apply to you, but I wouldn't recommend this tactic for the average owner. Most dogs are so poorly socialized that they have no clue about how to defuse stressful dog/dog interactions. Letting your dogs "sort it out" is something I see people do all the time, and it ALWAYS ends bad. Not only does the dog usually end up with some kind of fear-based aggression, they also usually can't see the owner as the source of guidance anymore due to a failure to protect them (in the event of an actual physical attack).

Just my $0.02. Like I said, I know you're a fan of positive reinforcement dog training, RawFedDogs, and I'm sure your dogs are very well-behaved, I would just hate to see someone else try that tactic and fail miserably.

Edit: Totally agree with the leash reactivity thing though -- not disputing that. Just pointing out there are a lot of crappy dog owners out there... with a lot of socially stunted pups


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Minnie I didn't think of that - I've had alot of dogs where if I dropped the leash I would never see them again, for one thing, even if there was no dog/dog issue.

I had a foster dog escape me last year and it took me 4 hours to get him. Lucky he wasn't killed by a car and lucky he REALLY didn't want to get away, he just wanted to torture me until he got tired of the game.


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

minnieme said:


> I'm sure your dogs are phenomenally well trained so this doesn't apply to you, but I wouldn't recommend this tactic for the average owner.


It has nothing to do with how well trained my dogs are. It has to do with there is much greater chance for a bad outcome if you keep your dog on leash. When the choice of fight of flight comes up, you have taken an option away from him if you have him on leash. Off leash or without me holding the leash, dogs are more likely to just have normal dog/dog interaction. Even if the approaching dog looks aggressive by barking, growling and charging, he will more than likely drop that behavior when he gets close. Usually the dogs will sniff each other and begin playing or something.

IF the worst case happens and a fight starts, you are hindering your dog and making it much more difficult for him to defend himself if you hold on to the leash.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

I let Murph get away with a lot. He's pretty poorly trained :wacko:


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## minnieme (Jul 6, 2011)

RawFedDogs said:


> It has nothing to do with how well trained my dogs are. It has to do with there is much greater chance for a bad outcome if you keep your dog on leash. When the choice of fight of flight comes up, you have taken an option away from him if you have him on leash. Off leash or without me holding the leash, dogs are more likely to just have normal dog/dog interaction. Even if the approaching dog looks aggressive by barking, growling and charging, he will more than likely drop that behavior when he gets close. Usually the dogs will sniff each other and begin playing or something.
> 
> IF the worst case happens and a fight starts, you are hindering your dog and making it much more difficult for him to defend himself if you hold on to the leash.


I am not doubting the fact that a confined dog is MUCH more likely to snap. I am doubting how well socialized other dogs are. I'm not going to stake my dog's safety on it. I'd much rather step between them and mitigate the situation before it gets potentially ugly. OF COURSE being off leash is always better and preferred for introductions, but I guess I don't have as much faith in the manners of other dogs as you do (i.e., that it will just drop it as it gets close). Minnie is allowed to meet other dogs of my choosing off leash -- the ones I don't want her to meet (aka the ones that go charging after her, barking and growling) I stop from interacting with her.


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## Donna Little (May 31, 2011)

xellil said:


> Awwww. I love your house and I've never been there. You are a senior citizen home!
> 
> snorkels isn't a barker except she tells me when it's dinnertime - she gets all settled into position in the middle of the rug (this takes a couple of minutes) and then she spins on her rear, barking in every direction just in case we can't hear her.
> 
> ...


Ha! I would also love to see Snorkels doing her "feed me dinner!" dance on the rug! I bet that's adorable.
I know also what you mean about no one getting to see her personality. Angel is like that. She's so nervous around strangers that she'll bark ferociously at them and she will bite if she's cornered. But at home when it's just us she is one of the funniest dogs I've ever seen. If you start playing on the floor with her she'll crawl on her belly and drag her back legs so I started saying "do hit by car." Like she'd been paralyzed by a car. Great trick huh? Okay, so I have a sick mind... Anyhow, she learned to do it on command so I could say to her, "Angel, what happens when you get hit by a car, and she'd start dragging her back legs around. Seriously cute. Do you think she'd do that in front of anyone else though. Not on your life! You know you can never get the kids to perform for others when you want them to!


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5 (Feb 11, 2010)

RawFedDogs said:


> It has nothing to do with how well trained my dogs are. It has to do with there is much greater chance for a bad outcome if you keep your dog on leash. When the choice of fight of flight comes up, you have taken an option away from him if you have him on leash. Off leash or without me holding the leash, dogs are more likely to just have normal dog/dog interaction. Even if the approaching dog looks aggressive by barking, growling and charging, he will more than likely drop that behavior when he gets close. Usually the dogs will sniff each other and begin playing or something.
> 
> IF the worst case happens and a fight starts, you are hindering your dog and making it much more difficult for him to defend himself if you hold on to the leash.


3 issues
1-i never trust walking a dog off leash..so Winston could run away from me.
2-if Winston decided to tear the dog up im sure animal control would come ready to put him down lol
3- id still be scared the little dog would give Winston a boo boos


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Donna Little said:


> But at home when it's just us she is one of the funniest dogs I've ever seen. If you start playing on the floor with her she'll crawl on her belly and drag her back legs so I started saying "do hit by car." Like she'd been paralyzed by a car. Great trick huh? Okay, so I have a sick mind... Anyhow, she learned to do it on command so I could say to her, "Angel, what happens when you get hit by a car, and she'd start dragging her back legs around. Seriously cute. Do you think she'd do that in front of anyone else though. Not on your life! You know you can never get the kids to perform for others when you want them to!


That is so funny! Snorkels does that too! we call it her frog imitation. But she doesn't do it on command - you need to do a video also.


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## DaViking (Sep 27, 2011)

RawFedDogs said:


> It has nothing to do with how well trained my dogs are. It has to do with there is much greater chance for a bad outcome if you keep your dog on leash. When the choice of fight of flight comes up, you have taken an option away from him if you have him on leash. Off leash or without me holding the leash, dogs are more likely to just have normal dog/dog interaction. Even if the approaching dog looks aggressive by barking, growling and charging, he will more than likely drop that behavior when he gets close. Usually the dogs will sniff each other and begin playing or something.
> 
> IF the worst case happens and a fight starts, you are hindering your dog and making it much more difficult for him to defend himself if you hold on to the leash.


I second all of that. In 20 years I have only had one instance where "normal" free dog-dog interaction didn't play out as it should. A German Shepard attacked my toller Gillie out of the blue. I could go on for 20 more years about how I feel they have ruined much of the GS lines... but Im not going too. No time, and that too would be heated for sure I feel


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> 3 issues
> 1-i never trust walking a dog off leash..so Winston could run away from me.
> 2-if Winston decided to tear the dog up im sure animal control would come ready to put him down lol
> 3- id still be scared the little dog would give Winston a boo boos


I think everyone should work toward walking off leash. Rebel is the only dog I've put that much effort into. In the black black days when I first had him, we were wallering around in the road (had barely made it off the driveway before he had one of his "episodes") and this fellow walks by with a dog with no leash. I thought to myself "one day we will do that." It seemed like wishing to win the lottery - I didn't think it would ever happen.

And it is definitely true that a dog off leash (at least with rebel) isn't nearly so defensive when meeting another dog.


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## Celt (Dec 27, 2010)

I have to say that my iggies are the worst train dogs I've ever owned (and I've owned a LOT). For some reason, I just can't get the "energy" up to insist on some behaviors, like not jumping on people (not that they do this often), as I did with all the others. Maybe it's that they're "little" dogs (not big dogs in little packages like doxies). Eh, maybe I'm losing my mind (or what little I've ever had).


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## minnieme (Jul 6, 2011)

Again, I'm not debating whether a dog on a leash is more reactive or defensive than a dog off leash. My point is that where I live I can't take Minnie on walks off leash. I can at the dog park, but in the city for our normal walks?? I would get a huge FINE slapped on me for that one -- the police take that very seriously. It's not that I don't trust HER, it's that I don't trust the other dogs. Minnie thinks everyone wants to play with her -- even ones that are showing aggressive signals. She grew up with her sister and that's the only dog she had contact with for the majority of her young life. I've said this before but Minnie is a very social dog, just socially awkward sometimes. She doesn't have any dog/dog aggression, thank goodness -- but then again, I don't want to give her any bad experiences that might potentially encourage that. 

Also, RC is right. If something ever were to happen, the big dog will ALWAYS get blamed. (and next thing you know, the papers will be calling her a "pit mix" too  ).

I know all about leash reactivity and how dogs are more defensive when confined. That's not what I'm getting at.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

My dog heels as if he were on a leash. It's the same as on a leash, only not having one. There is no more chance of getting into contact with another dog than if he were attached to me with a physical restraint. But you have to have a dog that will walk like that. It allows me to give him more freedom when I want to - he gets alot more exercise if I'm giving him a radius to walk in.

We always heel when walking by another dog - only because other people get nervous because they might think my dog isn't under control and very often THEIR dogs aren't under control even though they are leashed. He doesn't just wander around at will, loose. 

We have a leash law also. I just ignore it. Police drive by me all the time as we walk on very busy roads. interesting, I never thought about getting a fine.


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## minnieme (Jul 6, 2011)

xellil said:


> We have a leash law also. I just ignore it. Police drive by me all the time as we walk on very busy roads.


Fortunately or unfortunately, Minnie gets noticed everywhere she goes and is constantly under scrutiny. 

Also the town I live in is exceedingly dog friendly, but that's one of the things they have cracked down on a ton. We do have tons and tons of beautiful off leash parks though, so I don't feel like I'm missing out on too much. :smile:


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

i told my husband the hit by a car trick about an hour ago. He is alternating between "that's so awful!" and hysterical laughter. he wants a video, too.

We get a little notice also. Rebel is a 115 pound Doberman. I think the police understand the difference between "off leash" and "out of control." I see people walking off leash, not a ton, but fairly often, especially in certain areas of town. I do take him on a leash to places like farmer's markets because I would probably be asked to leave with no leash.

But I suppose if there ever were a problem, I'd probably get a citation. I don't think that's going to happen, though. He is not a fighter, and I carry a stun gun.


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5 (Feb 11, 2010)

xelli it;s awesome that rebel is a good off elash. id admit that i would be pretty nervous if i was walking winston and saw rebel. but hopefully he is dog friendly.
I jsut dont feel comfortable ever training my dog to be offleash. i dont trust dogs 100 percent to not wander...and i feel the risks outweigh the benefits.


xellil said:


> i told my husband the hit by a car trick about an hour ago. He is alternating between "that's so awful!" and hysterical laughter. he wants a video, too.
> 
> We get a little notice also. Rebel is a 115 pound Doberman. I think the police understand the difference between "off leash" and "out of control." I see people walking off leash, not a ton, but fairly often, especially in certain areas of town. I do take him on a leash to places like farmer's markets because I would probably be asked to leave with no leash.
> 
> But I suppose if there ever were a problem, I'd probably get a citation. I don't think that's going to happen, though. He is not a fighter, and I carry a stun gun.


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## minnieme (Jul 6, 2011)

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> i dont trust dogs 100 percent to not wander...and i feel the risks outweigh the benefits.


I agree. You can never guarantee an animal will perform perfectly, and even if it does 99.9% of the time....I still don't want to be that 0.1%. I'm unlucky....lord knows I would be. :wink:

With that said, I feel like training them to behave well off leash and have a solid recall is EXTREMELY important -- and I work on this with Minnie too (even though I don't have any intentions of taking her on walks off leash in the city). It's just a matter of what you're comfortable with.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

yes, you have to be pretty confident in your training and your dog. in fact, I couldn't let my dog off leash the first time - I was too scared. My brother got tired of me whining about it and one day opened the car door and told him to get out. I was pretty freaked. I thought he would disappear into the sunset. I really underestimated him. If not for my brother, I'm not sure i could have tried it - I'm not a "dog trainer" by any means and my trainer (who I like alot in most ways) wanted me to use the e-collar to do it and I wasn't real comfortable doing that. So I was kind of flying alone.

I am, however, 100%, not 99.9% with him. I agree - 99.9% is not enough. If you think there might be any circumstance where he/she wouldn't respond, it's not a good idea. From start to finish, it took us about 14 months to get there. We did alot of walking on a 30 foot leash because I just couldn't let go of that last little bit of uncertainty. 

And it was something I really, really wanted. i know for alot of people that's not a goal that's at the top of their list. But I lived most of my life with dogs that never had a leash on them and it's so fricken restrictive trying to walk like that. 

And if we are going to get attacked by a dog, it won't make a difference whether he is on a leash or not. That's just a chance you take when you are out there in public. We have never run across a dog that's intent on killing Rebel - I think they are few and far between, but they are definitely out there.


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## Celt (Dec 27, 2010)

My 2 would probably be perfect gentlemen off leash and have terrific recall, but I know when they get in "hunt mode" that if I don't catch and change they're "focus" before it sets in that their brains "turn off" and all that's left is a focused, high speed "killing" machine that I would have no chance of catching. I just can't take the chance.
Besides, all it takes is one time the "perfect" off leash dog to get a "wild hair" for tragedy to strike.


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## Donna Little (May 31, 2011)

xellil said:


> That is so funny! Snorkels does that too! we call it her frog imitation. But she doesn't do it on command - you need to do a video also.


I haven't asked Angel to do "hit by car" in a while so I didn't know if she'd remember. I asked her this morning a couple of times before I turned on the camera and she was immediately doing it. So here is a short version of my little fool acting like she's been run over. 
I'm so easily amused. And RC, I'm sorry I've totally hijacked your post. Forgive please....


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## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

Well, that was worth waiting for. How cute. She's a pretty bright little thing. Thanks for showing us, enjoyed it.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

HAHAHA! Thanks for taking the time to do that, that's hilarious.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Celt said:


> My 2 would probably be perfect gentlemen off leash and have terrific recall, but I know when they get in "hunt mode" that if I don't catch and change they're "focus" before it sets in that their brains "turn off" and all that's left is a focused, high speed "killing" machine that I would have no chance of catching. I just can't take the chance.
> Besides, all it takes is one time the "perfect" off leash dog to get a "wild hair" for tragedy to strike.


Alot of bad things can happen. the leash or collar could come off. A drunk could come plow into you in a car, or a band of roving mad dogs could come alog. It doesn't mean we don't walk our dogs. But if course if there's a 100% chance a dog won't listen eventually, they should be walked on a leash.

As my trainer says - it's easy to get a dog 90%. It's that last 10% that's the hard part.


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## minnieme (Jul 6, 2011)

Celt said:


> Besides, all it takes is one time the "perfect" off leash dog to get a "wild hair" for tragedy to strike.


Exactly. I will never trust an animal 100%.... although Minnie is darn close!


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

minnieme said:


> Exactly. I will never trust an animal 100%.... although Minnie is darn close!


you haven't had Minnie very long, and she is your first dog. Give it some time


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## Donna Little (May 31, 2011)

xellil said:


> HAHAHA! Thanks for taking the time to do that, that's hilarious.


Seriously easily amused at my house....:redface:


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Donna Little said:


> Seriously easily amused at my house....:redface:


Oh me, too. We don't need TV. i know how amusing one little dog is, imagine you with a housefull.

You have inspired me to try to do a video. I'm sure i won' t be successful, but it will keep me occupied for awhile.


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## Donna Little (May 31, 2011)

Yes! We need to see Snorkels in action!


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