# EVO formula change?



## Kmm25 (Nov 30, 2011)

Hi, I'm new to this sight, but I wanted to know if anyone else was having issues. I have been feeding my 3yr old BT EVO Herring and Salmon for about 3 years and she has done fantastic on it. She's allergic to a lot of things and has a sensitive stomach, so the limited ingredients and grain free has worked wonders for her. I recently bought a new bag, and have noticed that her stool has become much softer and the smell much more putrid. I know Natura was bought by P&G, and they said no changes would be made. However, with their previous track record, I'm not so sure. Is anyone else's pet having issues with EVO, or maybe I should look at something else as being the cause...

edit: Before P&G bought them out, I kept the old label and have reviewed the new label, There have been no changes in the ingredients, but I'm afraid the quality may have changed.


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## doggiedad (Jan 23, 2011)

read the label and see if you notice any changes. write to the company or call them
and ask specifics.


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## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

Have you noticed a change in the kibble itself, in color, smell, etc? Anything rancid? It could be she just ate something bad, but it could also be that the bag was punctured and went rancid.


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## Kmm25 (Nov 30, 2011)

I keep the food in an airtight bin, so I always double check the bag beforehand. I thought it might be something she ate too at first, but this has been for a couple weeks. I don't have a yard, so they are always walked on a leash, and I'm pretty conscious of making sure she doesn't eat stuff because her tummy is so sensitive.


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## DaViking (Sep 27, 2011)

Kmm25 said:


> There have been no changes in the ingredients, but I'm afraid the quality may have changed.


That is absolutely a possibility in the light of the takeover. Ask them if the source of ingredients have changed. Ask them if any ingredients are sourced from China?


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## cprcheetah (Jul 14, 2010)

They can change the ingredients without changing the label for up to 6 months (if I remember correctly).


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## Jack Monzon (Jul 25, 2010)

Could be a bad bag. I'd return it and try a new one.


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## lauren43 (Feb 6, 2011)

Tess's bag was extra smelly this time. Not bad smelly just more fishy than I remember but we have not had any poop issues.


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## monkeys23 (Dec 8, 2010)

I don't trust them. I changed to Acana grain free after the buy out. It was great, but I've since gone to prey model raw.

I would strongly suggest Acana Pacifica.


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## Kmm25 (Nov 30, 2011)

Thank you all for your input. I think I will be trying out a new food.


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## 1605 (May 27, 2009)

Kmm25 said:


> Hi, I'm new to this sight, but I wanted to know if anyone else was having issues. I have been feeding my 3yr old BT EVO Herring and Salmon for about 3 years and she has done fantastic on it. She's allergic to a lot of things and has a sensitive stomach, so the limited ingredients and grain free has worked wonders for her. I recently bought a new bag, and have noticed that her stool has become much softer and the smell much more putrid. I know Natura was bought by P&G, and they said no changes would be made. However, with their previous track record, I'm not so sure. Is anyone else's pet having issues with EVO, or maybe I should look at something else as being the cause...
> 
> edit: Before P&G bought them out, I kept the old label and have reviewed the new label, There have been no changes in the ingredients, but I'm afraid the quality may have changed.


1) How long has this been happening? If it has only been a couple of days, I would tend to think that she ate something she shouldn't have & give her system time to get back on track. We like to think we are always watching them to make sure they don't do something foolish like this, but no matter how vigilant we are, it DOES happen.

If you want, you can switch her to a home-cooked protein source she can tolerate + boiled rice until things firm up, then put her back on her food & see what happens.

2) Are you feeding her any more of the food than usual? Over-feeding often can result in softer, smellier stools.

If the problem persists, contact EVO's customer service dept. They will probably send you a new bag in exchange for the "old" one.

FWIW, I have been feeding EVO Turkey/Chicken for about 2 years now. I too was worried about the P&G buyout & and have saved EVERY bag label since they announced the new ownership. There has been NO change in the ingredients or percentages. And the buyout was over a year ago (May 2010).

Also, I contacted the company regarding sourcing and they confirmed that NONE of their ingredients come from China.

People, I really think some of us need to let go of this P&G + Innova/EVO thing. If they were going to make changes, they would have done it already. 

Pax,


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

SubMariner said:


> 1) How long has this been happening? If it has only been a couple of days, I would tend to think that she ate something she shouldn't have & give her system time to get back on track. We like to think we are always watching them to make sure they don't do something foolish like this, but no matter how vigilant we are, it DOES happen.
> 
> If you want, you can switch her to a home-cooked protein source she can tolerate + boiled rice until things firm up, then put her back on her food & see what happens.
> 
> ...


They have 6 months before they legally have to make changes to their ingredient list if they have done so!


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## 1605 (May 27, 2009)

whiteleo said:


> They have 6 months before they legally have to make changes to their ingredient list if they have done so!


And it's been OVER A YEAR since they took over the company.

ANY company can change their ingredients at ANY time. Re-hashing the P&G thing when there is no evidence to support that they have changed their formulas is illogical and irrational.


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

It doesn't mean that they haven't recently made a change? Why would they change in the very beginning when people expected it to happen. Now is the perfect time to do it! I'm not rehashing anything about P&G, just what is very probable.


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## 1605 (May 27, 2009)

whiteleo said:


> It doesn't mean that they haven't recently made a change? Why would they change in the very beginning when people expected it to happen. Now is the perfect time to do it! I'm not rehashing anything about P&G, just what is very probable.


:deadhorse:

Excuse me while I get my tinfoil hat to continue this conversation.... :tinfoil3:


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## DaViking (Sep 27, 2011)

SubMariner said:


> is illogical and irrational.


No way... on a dog discussion forum? Get out'a here!! :smile:


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## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

SubMariner said:


> :deadhorse:
> 
> Excuse me while I get my tinfoil hat to continue this conversation.... :tinfoil3:


I don't think that's fair. I think EVO is a good food (I feed it to the kitties) but P&G does have a history of making dog foods crappy. Not saying they have/will/are doing this to Natura, just saying it's a possibility and people are right to question. Just because it's been a year since the takeover really means nothing at all. To call people paranoid about it is ridiculous imo.


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## Jack Monzon (Jul 25, 2010)

It cracks me up when people call it a TAKEOVER. Like P&G goons stormed the Natura headquarters and demanded they hand over their dog foods.

I agree with SubMariner. The conspiracy theories are tiring, as is the nurturing of them. Yes, people have every right to question P&G and keep an eye on the former Natura products, but switching foods because your dog has problems with one bag is a little kneejerk, in my opinion, no matter what brand of food it is.


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## DaViking (Sep 27, 2011)

Jack Monzon said:


> It cracks me up when people call it a TAKEOVER. Like P&G goons stormed the Natura headquarters and demanded they hand over their dog foods.


Cracks me up every time someone makes fun of non english speaking ppls language. Give me a break, thats the cheapest jokes of them all.


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## Jack Monzon (Jul 25, 2010)

DaViking said:


> Cracks me up every time someone makes fun of non english speaking ppls language. Give me a break, thats the cheapest jokes of them all.


I didn't even realize you'd said it (I was referring to MANY posts I've seen on this subject), and it wasn't a knowledge-of-English jab at all.


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## DaViking (Sep 27, 2011)

Jack Monzon said:


> I didn't even realize you'd said it (I was referring to MANY posts I've seen on this subject), and it wasn't a knowledge-of-English jab at all.


Ok, fair enough :smile:


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5 (Feb 11, 2010)

SubMariner said:


> :deadhorse:
> 
> Excuse me while I get my tinfoil hat to continue this conversation.... :tinfoil3:


im prettty sure proctor was no to change the ingridients for 2 years(or maybe 1)...so no..if they were to change the ingredients they wouldn't have already


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

whiteleo said:


> It doesn't mean that they haven't recently made a change? Why would they change in the very beginning when people expected it to happen. Now is the perfect time to do it! I'm not rehashing anything about P&G, just what is very probable.


Now why on earth wouldn't we trust the pet food companies to do right by us???

I mean, none of their marketing leads us astray does it? And I'm sure they would never allow melamine, or euthanized animals, or sawdust to go into their dog food.

They wouldn't lie to us. :wacko:


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## Breathing Borla (Apr 30, 2010)

Kmm25 said:


> Hi, I'm new to this sight, but I wanted to know if anyone else was having issues. I have been feeding my 3yr old BT EVO Herring and Salmon for about 3 years and she has done fantastic on it. She's allergic to a lot of things and has a sensitive stomach, so the limited ingredients and grain free has worked wonders for her. I recently bought a new bag, and have noticed that her stool has become much softer and the smell much more putrid. I know Natura was bought by P&G, and they said no changes would be made. However, with their previous track record, I'm not so sure. Is anyone else's pet having issues with EVO, or maybe I should look at something else as being the cause...
> 
> edit: Before P&G bought them out, I kept the old label and have reviewed the new label, There have been no changes in the ingredients, but I'm afraid the quality may have changed.


been a while since I been around but Roxy has been on EVO for a while and she is doing great. I don't think they have changed a thing and I watch the labels decently close.

good food and my Vet said she really likes EVO as well.

I was a bit concerned when PG bought them but so far so good.


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## katied772 (Dec 26, 2011)

I happened upon this thread while googling about Evo. I started feeding Evo Low Fat about three years ago when our Lab was diagnosed with Oral Melanoma because of it being low-carb. It's thought that carbs feed cancer. Jake has done very well on it and we also switched our other three dogs as well as my daughter's two dogs to it. However, now I am wondering if it could be causing a problem. My daughter's dogs have been battling diarrhea for about 4 months. Vet has tested the stool and found nothing. She put the two dogs on several rounds of antibiotics for 10 days, then again for 1 month. Stool did solid up some during this time but never completely. Now, for about 1 month, two of my dogs have had diarrhea off and on. They are all seemingly healthy otherwise. Daughter's one dog does have a bad issue with allergies which are acting up right now (red eyes, itchy, etc). She deals with this a lot but you would think this would not be a bad time for it with the cold weather. Wonder is she has developed a food allergy to her Evo, though this food should not be a strong candidate for it. But, this still doesn't explain all the other dog's diarrhea. The food seems to be the only common denominator. Our dogs don't spend time together but she and I do, so possibly we could be carrying something. You would think if that was the case that it would show up in the stool tests though. This is so frustrating, not to mention expensive with the carpet cleaning. Any ideas?


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Well, a PMR diet has zero carbs. Normally, low-fat means high carb. I don't know enough about dry dog food, but I do see on the ingredients that it's 10 percent carbs. Really, dogs don't need any carbs at all.

I agree - like with people, sugars feed cancer. I think that's becoming more and more well known.

The Evo doesn't have any of the awful stuff in it like corn, but when I got my dogs completely off dry dog food all of their allergies went away except for my dachshund who still has runny eyes and sneezes when she is in grass. But I figure that's environmental since she's like me - we both go outside and start sneezing. But the ear infections, skin problems, etc. etc. - all gone.

Personally, I would suspect the rounds of diarrhea and antibiotics kind of a vicious cycle that it's hard to get rid of - we went through that also except my dog doesn't get diarrhea she got dehydration, vomiting, lethargy. When I started raw, all of that disappeared.

I am becoming more and more of a believer that these chronic things that keep coming back in our dogs may truly be food related.


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

Just throwing it out there, but my cat (my only kibble fed animal, because she refuses to eat anything else) has been eating both feline formulas of Evo for almost two years now, and each bag tends to be just a tad different in color, because it isn't all dyed a uniform shade in production. ALL KIBBLE VARIES SLIGHTLY BATCH TO BATCH. 

At first, I was mad and totally on board with the "OMG, they are going to RUIN Natura products and we're all gonna dieeee!" mentality. Now, not so much. DO people sit around all day and worry that the ingredients might change in other dog foods? Evo is a good food. It was yesterday, and it is today. P&G is a company. They want to make money. It's EVO's ingredient list and quality that sell it. If they change that, it won't sell like it does now. SO few foods are on the caliber of EVO, it would be an incredibly poor business move to downgrade the food to mediocre or decent which has so much more competition. 

Can they source cheaper ingredients? Perhaps. But if you think the chicken they've been using look like this:







, you need a reality check to begin with. 

I'm pretty sure the folks at P&G aren't sitting around wondering how they might be able to kill a few pets with their food.


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## 1605 (May 27, 2009)

katied772 said:


> I happened upon this thread while googling about Evo. I started feeding Evo Low Fat about three years ago when our Lab was diagnosed with Oral Melanoma because of it being low-carb. It's thought that carbs feed cancer. Jake has done very well on it and we also switched our other three dogs as well as my daughter's two dogs to it. However, now I am wondering if it could be causing a problem. My daughter's dogs have been battling diarrhea for about 4 months. Vet has tested the stool and found nothing. She put the two dogs on several rounds of antibiotics for 10 days, then again for 1 month. Stool did solid up some during this time but never completely. Now, for about 1 month, two of my dogs have had diarrhea off and on. They are all seemingly healthy otherwise. Daughter's one dog does have a bad issue with allergies which are acting up right now (red eyes, itchy, etc). She deals with this a lot but you would think this would not be a bad time for it with the cold weather. Wonder is she has developed a food allergy to her Evo, though this food should not be a strong candidate for it. But, this still doesn't explain all the other dog's diarrhea. The food seems to be the only common denominator. Our dogs don't spend time together but she and I do, so possibly we could be carrying something. You would think if that was the case that it would show up in the stool tests though. This is so frustrating, not to mention expensive with the carpet cleaning. Any ideas?


Firstly, I am sorry to hear that your dog was diagnosed with Oral melanoma. However, "it's thought that carbs feed cancer" is not an empirical, scientific statement as to the cause of h/h illness. Frankly, there just isn't enough data to rule on this subject.

As for why the dogs are having constant go-rounds of diarrhea take a look at my thread in a similar vein here:http://dogfoodchat.com/forum/dog-health-issues-question/3928-zios-gi-problems.html

Ultimately, we had to go to another vet to discover the source of Zio's diarrhea. She zeroed in on his GI problems being caused not by his main dog food (EVO Turkey/Chicken) but by other foods we were giving him. The culprit was ultimately found to be the fact that Zio's GI cannot handle beef. Ever since we eliminated that "treat" from his diet, he hasn't had that repetitive diarrhea cycle.

BTW, I think that calling these GI problems "allergic reactions" is something of a misnomer. I think a more accurate description would be to say that the dog's GI cannot properly process specific foods, hence the diarrhea. 

FWIW,


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

SubMariner said:


> Firstly, I am sorry to hear that your dog was diagnosed with Oral melanoma. However, "it's thought that carbs feed cancer" is not an empirical, scientific statement as to the cause of h/h illness. Frankly, there just isn't enough data to rule on this subject.
> 
> As for why the dogs are having constant go-rounds of diarrhea take a look at my thread in a similar vein here:http://dogfoodchat.com/forum/dog-health-issues-question/3928-zios-gi-problems.html
> 
> ...


There is more and more in the literature that is showing a trend that yes, processed carbohydrates not only create tumors but allow them to grow faster. There is empirical evidence out there. 

Dogs aren't made to process carbohydrates anyway. how many dogs die of cancer at a young age? No, no one has proven that the reason so many dogs get cancer is because of the food they eat. Just like alarmist articles come out all the time about people food - alot of that is just junk science. 

But still, you have to wonder. If mice that eat alot of carbs get cancer in much higher numbers than mice that don't, does that translate to dogs also? And are we willing to take that chance?


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## 1605 (May 27, 2009)

xellil said:


> There is more and more in the literature that is showing a trend that yes, processed carbohydrates not only create tumors but allow them to grow faster. There is empirical evidence out there.
> 
> Dogs aren't made to process carbohydrates anyway. how many dogs die of cancer at a young age? No, no one has proven that the reason so many dogs get cancer is because of the food they eat. Just like alarmist articles come out all the time about people food - alot of that is just junk science.
> 
> But still, you have to wonder. If mice that eat alot of carbs get cancer in much higher numbers than mice that don't, does that translate to dogs also? And are we willing to take that chance?


I presume you are referring to the ONE study by Dr. Krystal out of BC that puts forth this theory? And it just came out this past Summer. So I think there needs to be more investigation into this hypothesis before it can be given full credence.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Oh goodness no. There is lots of research. this is just a sample of two I found in a couple of minutes - if I spent a few hours I could probably find dozens. Plus, pubmed has about a third of the studies that the non-US countries do because it's US-centric. If I had access to Embase I could probably find hundreds. It's a pretty well documented fact that cancer cells are sugar scavengers.

G*lucose deprivation activates AMPK and induces cell death through modulation of Akt in ovarian cancer cells.*


> ...CONCLUSIONS:Ovarian cancer cells are glycolytic as compared to normal, untransformed cells, and are sensitive to glucose deprivation.* Because ovarian cancer cells are dependent upon glucose for growth and survival*, treatment with AMPK activators that mimic glucose deprivation may result in broad clinical benefits to ovarian cancer patients.


Glucose deprivation activates AMPK and induces... [Gynecol Oncol. 2011] - PubMed - NCBI

*Enzymatic features of the glucose metabolism in tumor cells.*


> We conclude that, besides the expression level of the metabolic enzymes involved in the glucose metabolism of tumor cells, the unique tumor-specific pattern of isozymes and accompanying changes in the metabolic regulation below the translation level *enable tumor cells to drain selfishly the blood glucose pool that non-transformed cells use as sparingly as possible*.


Enzymatic features of the glucose metabolism in tumor... [FEBS J. 2011] - PubMed - NCBI


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## 1605 (May 27, 2009)

xellil said:


> Oh goodness no. There is lots of research. this is just a sample of two I found in a couple of minutes - if I spent a few hours I could probably find dozens. Plus, pubmed has about a third of the studies that the non-US countries do because it's US-centric. If I had access to Embase I could probably find hundreds. It's a pretty well documented fact that cancer cells are sugar scavengers.
> 
> G*lucose deprivation activates AMPK and induces cell death through modulation of Akt in ovarian cancer cells.*
> 
> ...


Interesting studies. However you are using glucose interchangeably with carbs and they are not the same. In fact carbs are not the only source of glucose.Where Does Glucose Come From? | eHow.com

"The foods your body uses to create glucose are vegetables, fruits, grains and legumes that provide the starches the liver will use in manufacturing glucose. By eating a steady diet of these starch sources, you will keep regulated blood glucose. Other sources of glucose include dairy products such as milk, cheese and yogurt."


So yes, in those articles there seems to be a correlation between *glucose *& cancer cells.

​


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Of course not! I never said carbs are the only source of glucose. Everything needs some glucose to survive. Where they heck did you think I said that?

My dogs get zero carbs and they convert to glucose the food that they eat, probably mostly through fat. 

Cancer cells like sugar - carbs are the primary source (and that's from your own reference). 

So what's your point?

By the way, a carb is not a carb is not a carb. There's a big difference in a pop tart carb and a pinto bean carb. Of which, by the way, my dogs get neither.


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## tadbubs (Nov 30, 2012)

*Acana vs. Homemade Raw*



monkeys23 said:


> I don't trust them. I changed to Acana grain free after the buy out. It was great, but I've since gone to prey model raw.
> 
> I would strongly suggest Acana Pacifica.


Hi,

We're working in Singapore and I'm trying to get a lean on
the best foods.

I saw your recommendation for Acana Grasslands.

I've a few questions if you could help?

1. Is Acana dry similar to homemade raw--in its affect on poo, coat, energy, overall health?

2. Is it cheaper than preparing all the ingredients at home--started that but finding all the time is a bit and my mini schnauzer's beard gets goopy--.

3. Have you tried other raw and come to conclusions?

4. What are your thoughts on dehydrated vs. kibble vs. canned raw?


Thanks, I'm thinking of ordering through Amazon as its cheaper in USA than in Singapore.


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## DaViking (Sep 27, 2011)

schism said:


> I thought you didn't believe there was a risk with vitamin pre-mixes from overseas? Just wondering...
> Sorry, just realized this is an old thread.


I don't think overseas vitamin pre-mixes is a big concern as most of them come from a few multinational companies with plants in North America, Europe and Asia. Protein sources, grains and other plants and non pre-mixed functional ingredients is a bigger concern since there are so many more stages involved in production, distribution and storage. IMO possible points of failure is greater.


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## kevin bradley (Aug 9, 2009)

SubMariner said:


> And it's been OVER A YEAR since they took over the company.
> 
> ANY company can change their ingredients at ANY time. Re-hashing the P&G thing when there is no evidence to support that they have changed their formulas is illogical and irrational.



I had to change this post... I think we pretty much agree on the subject.

Companies can change ingredients ANY time.


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