# Raw fed dogs and cancer



## shellbell (Sep 24, 2011)

A friend of mine has five year old chocolate lab who was recently diagnosed with cancer. He said that after the diagnosis, he considered switching his lab to raw, b/c he had heard of the many health benefits of a raw diet. He mentioned it to the vet, who said he was crazy and "absolutely don't do it". This was mentioned on a FB comment. Someone else chimed in with their comment, agreeing with the vet and saying that, "Dogs with cancer should not be on a raw diet. They need to be putting their full attention on fighting the tumor cells, not being "distracted" by pathogens in the food."

To me, it would kind of make sense to maybe say that for a recently diagnosed cancer dog who is going through treatment, maybe that would not be the best time to transition him to raw if he's never ate it before. In the sense that perhaps no food changes should be made at all since he is already going through the stress of cancer treatment. Or would he benefit from switching food at this time? I really don't know.

I do feel like there is nothing wrong though with feeding raw to a cancer dog if that is their normal diet. Like, if a raw fed dog all of a sudden (god forbid) was diagnosed with cancer, I wouldn't think that the raw diet should be stopped immediately due to a pathogen concern. 

Like I said, I can see the concern about maybe not wanting to switch up a dog's diet when they are already dealing with medical stress like cancer, but I would not think there would be anything inherently wrong with a raw diet for a cancer dog.

What do you guys think? This is something I'm not an expert in at all, but always looking to learn more.


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## cprcheetah (Jul 14, 2010)

I have a friend who has a chow chow who was told she had a month or so to live back in May 2008, it was diagnosed with Transitional Cell Sarcoma of the bladder which is one of the WORST cancers. Her dog refused the vet diet, so she did some research and put the dog on raw, the dog is STILL alive, doing great, you can barely tell there is anything wrong with the dog. She is 12 years old now. That is what Raw can do for the dog.


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## JayJayisme (Aug 2, 2009)

shellbell said:


> They need to be putting their full attention on fighting the tumor cells, not being "distracted" by pathogens in the food."


All the while their metabolic system is being taxed by carbohydrates and their immune system is being compromised by insulin response. 

Cancer cells feed off of carbohydrates. Feeding your dog food with carbs (which all commercial dog food has) is essentially feeding the cancer cells.


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## rory (Oct 4, 2011)

JayJayisme said:


> All the while their metabolic system is being taxed by carbohydrates and their immune system is being compromised by insulin response.
> 
> Cancer cells feed off of carbohydrates. Feeding your dog food with carbs (which all commercial dog food has) is essentially feeding the cancer cells.


Errr...carbs don't "feed" cancer cells anymore than they feed regular cells - all of our cells require glucose for energy (although some, like tumours, do use more than others). If you or your dog ingested zero carbs, the body would still produce glucose from protein and fat (and tumours will get first dibs regardless of where the glucose is coming from). The idea of sugar feeding tumours is an alt. medicine trope based on a misreading of a 1930's nobel winner's work. Cancer patients shouldn't binge on sugary sweets (or corn-based craptacular kibble), but neither should healthy people/dogs. That said, it is probably more important for the cancer patient than a healthy one to follow strict eating rules. 

I have no idea whether switching a dog with cancer to raw would be beneficial or not - the idea of being "distracted" by the pathogens seems strange to me, though, because as I understand it, the pathogens are killed by the dog's stomach acid and not white blood cells. That's the theory as I have understood it, anyway - of course, there are no studies that can tell us either way, unfortunately.


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## shellbell (Sep 24, 2011)

I also did not understand the idea of being "distracted" by pathogens....I don't think that is an issue at all with raw fed dogs, since their systems are designed to kill pathogens. 

And I had always thought that "bad" carbs (like white flour and sugar) when given in excess, fed cancer cells and created friendly environments for them...in both humans and dogs. And since dogs don't need carbs anyways, wouldn't any amount of carb not be an ideal thing for them? I do agree though that humans need good carbs for energy, but too many of us (msyelf included) eat too much processed crap and unhealthy, sugary carbs.


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## malluver1005 (Nov 15, 2009)

JayJayisme said:


> Cancer cells feed off of carbohydrates. Feeding your dog food with carbs (which all commercial dog food has) is essentially feeding the cancer cells.


:amen: to that!


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## JayJayisme (Aug 2, 2009)

rory said:


> Errr...carbs don't "feed" cancer cells anymore than they feed regular cells - all of our cells require glucose for energy (although some, like tumours, do use more than others).


Okay, if you want to nit pick, cancer cells thrive in a glucose-rich environment, which is present when insulin can't control serum glucose efficiently as it peaks and wanes after ingestion of carbohydrates. Yes, dogs (and humans) will make glucose from protein and fat, but at far more regulated and efficient levels than simply ingesting carbs and bombing the metabolic system with a glucose overload that has to be immediately addressed with insulin. When carbs are ingested, there will be periods of glucose overload as the insulin catches up to respond. When you have enough of these glucose-rich periods strung together over time, you are essentially creating an ideal environment for cancer cells to thrive in. 

That is not to say that raw fed dogs cannot get cancer. Cancer can occur for many reasons, most of which probably are yet to be understood by "modern medicine". But why help it along by raising the glucose levels in the body to unnecessary levels?


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

I know that the mini B.T. Luke is alive and well from some form of Lymphomic cancer as his owners did research before his cancer treatment and did a homemade diet for him. I saw him a couple weeks ago on my travels and it has been 2 yrs.


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## rory (Oct 4, 2011)

JayJayisme said:


> Okay, if you want to nit pick, cancer cells thrive in a glucose-rich environment...


Yes, I must nitpick. There are quacks out there who tell cancer patients that if they go on carb-free "ketogenic" diets they will starve their cancers and cure themselves, so no need for modern medicine. Steve Jobs even reportedly fell for it, delaying his cancer treatment by nine months to try some "alternative" treatments and potentially hastening his death - and even if it is a false report, lots of other people have been victims of this sort of thinking. 

Point is, the idea that cancers thrive in post-carb-binge glucose-rich environments before insulin level can catch up might very well be true, but at this point it hasn't been substantiated in the literature. It irks me that it is constantly repeated as if it were established fact. Nobody should be eating like that anyway, the spikes in glucose (and then spikes in insulin) cause a host of problems for the human body, and I wouldn't be surpassed if cancer is eventually added to the list. But it just hasn't been yet.


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## malluver1005 (Nov 15, 2009)

The diet part of this article is interesting...


Is Canine Cancer Prevention Possible?


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

I can't see the harm in feeding the dog a more species appropriate diet. Removing food that has none or very little nutritional value and adds stress to digestion and other cleansing function of his system would be good and potentially cause less stress than continuing an unsuitable diet. That said I would progress very slowly from protein to protein so he has the best chance of adjustment with little or no problems. A species appropriate diet will only serve to enhance his immune system and giving him food he can actually absorb and use will aid in healing - while maybe not curing his cancer possibly building his immune system to aid in fighting the cancer and or prolonging his life possibly giving him a better quality of life. JMHO


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## JayJayisme (Aug 2, 2009)

rory said:


> Yes, I must nitpick. There are quacks out there who tell cancer patients that if they go on carb-free "ketogenic" diets they will starve their cancers and cure themselves, so no need for modern medicine. Steve Jobs even reportedly fell for it, delaying his cancer treatment by nine months to try some "alternative" treatments and potentially hastening his death - and even if it is a false report, lots of other people have been victims of this sort of thinking.


FYI, Steve Jobs died of Islet Cell Carcinoma which happens when the cells in the pancreas that produce insulin (islet cells), ghrelin (the hunger hormone), and other diet related hormones are overworked from a low fat (which is usually a high carb) diet. Islet Cell Carcinoma is generally more survivable than most pancreatic cancers through a relatively simple surgery. But what probably did him in was wasting time following the "nutrition" advice of that quack Dr. Dean Ornish, who advised him to eat a special vegetarian diet to treat the cancer. By the time he realized the diet wasn't working, and he opted for surgery, it was too late.


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## rory (Oct 4, 2011)

So tragic - for his kids, especially.

As for the OPs friend - I would think that if your friend is not comfortable with starting a raw diet mid-treatment, how about home cooked??? Surely that is a thousand times better than kibble, and can be made grain free - but of course, they have to be very careful about getting the right C/P ratio...if I hadn't switched to raw, I would be doing ZiwiPeak, Honest Kitchen, or home cooking (probably a mix of all three)...


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

actually, you don't have to nitpick....you're not speaking to jama or the ama....

you're not writing an article.

it's pretty well known that cancer patients engaged in traditional medicine.....now are advised to stay off high sugar diets....

i'm not talking about the sugars in fruits and veggies...i am talking about the sugar in starchy foods and processed foods.

kibble is processed. the nutrients are ridiculously compromised.

the only way to help an immune compromised dog, is to feed that dog as close to mother nature as possible, the same diet recommended to a cancer human.

steve jobs regretted his decision, which he stated toward the end.....and in his case, a simple operation would have given him years, so we are not talking about the same thing.

he had pancreatic cancer. we don't know what kind of cancer this dog has and each cancer is different, except when it comes to nutrition....and, whilst food is not a cure, certainly it has qualities that can only help, given the patient eats the most natural foods there are...

to the OP. as an MD, i would highly recommend a raw diet for this dog....just as i would recommend it to a human with cancer..

whether it lengthens his life or not is not known to anyone except those who have seen the test results....but it surely will improve the quality of his life.....and much depends on how advanced the cancer is and what type the cancer is and what organs are affected and how much time has passed between diagnosis and now.

if you want, rory, to have a conversation about cancer patients and glucose, i think maybe it's best suited for another thread, don't you?

jobs has nothing to do with this...he went doctors who practised alternative modalities and he also did not include traditional medicine......and freely admitted it. 

raw is hardly quackery and no one is saying that feeding raw will cure cancer.


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## shellbell (Sep 24, 2011)

Thanks for your input everyone. I appreciate it.


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## rory (Oct 4, 2011)

Ok, well, my original post was in response to a claim made in another post, and despite that particular point about sugar and cancer, the rest of my response did indeed address the OP, as did my subsequent posts. My point about Jobs was an aside, just an example, and was in no way intended to take over the thread. I apologize if this somehow offended you, magicre. I actually do believe that accuracy is important, regardless of whether the audience is an online message board or the American Medical Association. I feed raw because I think it is best, I did not call it quackery, but if the OPs friend is not comfortable with raw, I don't see any harm in suggesting alternatives. 



magicre said:


> actually, you don't have to nitpick....you're not speaking to jama or the ama....
> 
> you're not writing an article.
> 
> ...


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## DaViking (Sep 27, 2011)

rory said:


> I would be doing ZiwiPeak, Honest Kitchen, or home cooking (probably a mix of all three)...


Honest Kitchen as the odd meal in a rotation, sure but not on it's own. HC products contains between 55 and 60 percent carbohydrates on a dry food basis. A big part of that from potatoes/sweet potatoes. I don't see any reason in feeding this much carbs from less than average GI sources. Feeding this can produce the glucose-rich environment you don't want.


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## Chocx2 (Nov 16, 2009)

Everything I have read suggest that raw meat not carbs is good for cancer. My friends 6 year old lab had a mass cell tumor and she started on raw which was very hard for her to do since she is kinda like a vegetarian and does not like to handle meat. I am helping her with her food going to grind for her hope this does wonders for her doggie
I think dogs are healthier on raw that's my opinion and my experience.


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## twoisplenty (Nov 12, 2008)

My best friends Rotti was diagnosed with a tumor on her leg. It was the size of a hardball. The vet said the biopsy came back as an aggressive cancer and the only way to save the life of this 3 year old dog was to completely amputate the back leg and start chemo. She refused and opted for the lump to be removed instead, she switched her dog to raw and took her to some clinic once a week that did ultrasonic sound waves (or something along those lines) on the affected leg. Not only does this dog still have her leg but she is still alive and 9 yrs old.


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