# Grain free carbohydrates versus grain based carbohydrates



## dr tim (Mar 27, 2011)

Hey list;

I would really like to learn what people think on the idea of why the "grain free carbohydrate" based diets are better than a "grain based carbohydrate" diet for both dogs and cats. Fire away.


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

First and foremost reason is that dogs and cats are not meant to digest grains in any way shape or form!


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## Jack Monzon (Jul 25, 2010)

Dogs aren't meant to digest potatoes or peas either, right?

Grain-free foods tend to be higher in protein, so that's one reason I guess. The other thing I've learned is that many dogs are allergic to some grains. So if your dog is allergic/intolerant to the grain, then you should avoid it.

Other than that, I don't see the big draw of grain-free foods.


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## Serendipity (Aug 13, 2010)

Jack, you read my mind!


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## Maxy24 (Mar 5, 2011)

I asked this question a while ago too, why is potato better than rice or other grains? The answers that made most sense to me were that most grain free foods are also much higher in protein than grain inclusive and that most grains are higher in protein than potato. What this means is that if the food uses potato instead of grain you can be sure that the majority of the protein is coming from animal sources and not from plant sources. If the food has grain in it then a good portion of the protein COULD be coming from those grains. 

Of course not all grain free foods are created equal. Some have the same amount of protein as a grain inclusive food and some add things like pea protein and potato protein which (I assume) negates the whole idea of grain free food HAVING to get most of their protein from meat, if they are using concentrated plant versions then they don't in fact have to use more meat to reach those higher protein levels. But if anyone has more info on those two ingredients I'd love to hear it, I never really thought about it until now.

But if we were talking about cats I'd just tell you that they are both evil and you shouldn't feed dry food which needs those evil carbs. Feed low carb wet (wet doesn't need carbohydrates like potato to stick together) or raw. I wish it were cheaper to feed wet food to dogs. As it is we spend at least $80 a month feeding the cats canned food. Add to that the dog's TOTW dry and the various canned food he gets mixed with it and we're already paying a boat load for three animals.


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

I don't know that one type of carb is better or worse than another. I think the thing is that grain free foods tend to be lower in carbs period. To me, thats the attraction of grain free foods if you can say that any carb containing food can have any attraction at all. I haven't fed ANY carbs to my dogs in 9 years.


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## Ania's Mommy (Feb 8, 2009)

As I understand it, the only function that carbs serve in dry kibble is to act as a binder.

If I were looking at kibble, I'd want the one with the least amount of carbs possible, and low protein carbs at that (so as to not artificially bump up the protein content). 

So my preference is whatever carb is lowest in protein and good at binding in low amounts.


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## PDXdogmom (Jun 30, 2010)

dr tim said:


> Hey list;
> 
> I would really like to learn what people think on the idea of why the "grain free carbohydrate" based diets are better than a "grain based carbohydrate" diet for both dogs and cats. Fire away.


I see this assumption (an incorrect one, IMO) stated so often on dog forums - that a grain-free carb kibble is always superior to a grain-based carb kibble. Of course, there always has to be some type of carb to hold the kibble together.

The statement is too simplistic and short-sighted. So much depends on which specific grains or specific non-grain carbs are present. The total carb and protein percentages are also important. Also, where does the carb fall along the glycemic index?

I've fed dogs for almost 30 years. At the beginning I fed foods like Science Diet, IAMS, Eukanuba; progressed to Nutro and Natural Balance; then on to many grain frees by Fromm, Nature's Variety, Go Natural, EVO, Acana, Orijen, Horizon Legacy, Timberwolf, Honest Kitchen, and I'm sure there are a few more. And now, with one of my dogs I'm trying Canine Caviar Chicken and Pearl Millet as a base food (which I'm sure will be considered a huge negative to some die-hard grain-free feeders) and home-cooking also.

I'd rather feed food containing quinoa, millet (actually a seed, I guess), or brown rice than a grain-free food with white potato or tapioca as one of the primary ingredients. One can always add some fresh protein to a base food. 

Marketers have been very effective in touting grain-free foods. Too many people see that word on the bag or in an ad and automatically think they don't need to research the formula any further. It's just not that black and white. 

There is no way I'd want to long term feed the grain-free Natural Balance Sweet Potato and Chicken with 21% protein / 10% fat and 1st three ingredients of "sweet potato, chicken meal, chicken fat". At the same time I wouldn't feed Nature's Variety Instinct Chicken Meal with 42% protein / 22% fat and 1st three ingredients of "chicken meal, tapioca, chicken fat". The extreme highs and lows of protein and fat don't fit a profile I'm looking for; there are only rendered "meals" with no inclusion of fresh meat, and I don't like any carb as a 1st ingredient and not thrilled with a basically starchy carb with such little nutritional value as a 2nd ingredient.

I'd rather feed my current Canine Caviar Chicken and Pearl Millet (26% protein/16% fat) with dehydrated chicken (free range and no antibiotic, hormones or pesticides), ground pearl millet, whole ground brown rice, chicken fat, chicken, etc.; and home-cook the second meal of the day.


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## PDXdogmom (Jun 30, 2010)

Sorry, accidental repeat of above post.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

Interesting post PDXdogmom....you're kind of in the same thinking as me I guess. 

I am going to put my two dogs on Natural Balance until I get a full time job. I just was offered a part time rep job for them, and it will provide me with 30lbs of food a month. While it's not my ideal brand, I know it's not awful. I just need to figure out which of the formulas will be best for them.


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## PDXdogmom (Jun 30, 2010)

meggels said:


> Interesting post PDXdogmom....you're kind of in the same thinking as me I guess.
> 
> I am going to put my two dogs on Natural Balance until I get a full time job. I just was offered a part time rep job for them, and it will provide me with 30lbs of food a month. While it's not my ideal brand, I know it's not awful. I just need to figure out which of the formulas will be best for them.


It sounds like a great part-time job and who can't like free dog food. I didn't mean to disparage the whole company. I just really don't care for their limited ingredients formulas very much.

If someone said to me "pick one of the NB formulas to feed for the next 6 months" I'd be trying the NB Synergy formula. And, then I'd probably add an egg or handful of meat on top pretty often along with some salmon oil. Dick Van Patten’s SYNERGY Ultra Dog Formula


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## Porphyria (Jul 13, 2011)

Great post PDXdogmom; too often a food is championed solely because it is grain free, when really, quality grains are as good as if not better than the white potato used to bind many grain free foods. Just my personal experience, but my dog has done much better on Fromm Four Star's grain inclusive formulas (haven't tried their grain free yet, but might include them in a rotation diet) than he did on Now!, Acana, or Orijen.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

No worries. I'm not exactly a huge fan either because I prefer more meat but I don't think they are an awful company and I can't hate myself too much for feeding it while I am repping. Def could be doing a lot worse in terms of foods to be feeding them, and that saves me 50 or so bucks a month I'd have to spend, which when I don't have a full time job, is gonna be a lot  


And you picked the one I decided to go with lol  Gonna go pick up a bag today.


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## Javadoo (May 23, 2011)

I like the higher protein in grain free foods.
My girls were on grain inclusive food, but I switched to grain free after Java tore both ACLs....grains *can* cause joint inflammation in some dogs, so I wanted to take that variable out of the equation.
I was amazed at how lean and luscular my girls have become on grain free food. 
They look so much better on grain free and have so much more energy now than they ever did on grain inclusive food. 

I rotate (currently-TOTW, Fromm S & T, Fromm Beef Frittata & NV Instinct Duck & Turkey meal) and couldn't be happier with the results we've gotten from going grain free.
That being said...not all dogs do well on grain free and alot of dogs do exceptionally well with grain inclusive foods. Just not my girls.


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## Shamrockmommy (Sep 10, 2009)

It seems with my 2 bichon girls, I can feed grain or potato inclusive foods and they do the same either way.
My PWD girl when fed grain inclusive foods has bad gas and foul smelling stool, along with yellow foamy stool.

She just does better on it.

I, too, homecook, so I am adding extra meat to the mid grade foods and everyone does very well this way.


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