# my food my dogs their portions



## pig mad (Aug 14, 2013)

Wild boar meat and liver and kidneys
grey mackrel fillets
cow fat
brown rice
veges which consists of brocolli, spinach, carrots, capsicum, celery, garlic
supplements which consists of calcium, vitamins and minerals, electrolytes
I run it all through my mincer together so it is evenly mixed and chopped.

my 40kg cross gets 700gm
52 pound pit gets 800gm
44 pound pit gets 600gm
2 x 10 month olds get 500gm
2 x 3.5 month olds get 400gm

the top 3 grew up on kibble the last 4 have never eaten kibble.

How can I check if what I am feeding is nutritionaly right??


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## Fundog (Oct 25, 2012)

A lot of folks on here will tell you you're doing it the hard way. It really doesn't need to be that complicated. 

I give my two eight ounces of red meat (mostly beef or pork, but occasionally they get goat or mutton) twice in one day, then the next meal will be a bone-in chicken leg or thigh, then two more meals of red meat, and so on and so forth...

Almost every day or so they get a "treat" of a chunk of frozen liver or other organ (right now I have a surplus of mutton liver). I have to be careful, and give very small portions, and it can't be every single day, or they get the runs. This is super rich mutton, backyard raised.

My senior dog gets some herbal supplements for her arthritis, in the form of capsules, which she is happy to munch down like treats: burdock root, yucca root, and feverfew.

That's it. No veggies, except as a treat now and then, just for the simple pleasure of it, not because they need it.

It's all very, very simple. : )


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## Jan Fred (Jul 23, 2013)

For all the ingredients you gave, for sure your dog is PHYSICALLY healthy. But dogs have emotions too, you know. For sure, what we give matter s but it's not just all of that. Sometimes we need to stay while our dog eats, watch him, sit beside him. As I said, dogs have emotions too. Who wants to eat alone? For sure, you don't. So to top it all, all of your ingredients are good, its just the matter of the way you give it.  best wishes


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## pig mad (Aug 14, 2013)

They scoff their food that fast you wouldnt have time to watch them hahaha.


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## lauren43 (Feb 6, 2011)

The only concern I have is the wild boar, do you freeze it before feeding? I feel like I've heard somewhere your not supposed to feed it but I could be wrong. I personally don't feed veggies but I don't see anything wrong with adding them especially if they've ground up...

Man these threads always remind me that I need some more variety and some other organs..


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## BeagleCountry (Jan 20, 2012)

pig mad said:


> How can I check if what I am feeding is nutritionaly right??


A downloadable spreadsheet. 
PERSONAL RAW FEEDING GUIDE (New and Improved) - Raw Food Diet Forum


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## BeagleCountry (Jan 20, 2012)

Jan Fred said:


> Sometimes we need to stay while our dog eats, watch him, sit beside him. As I said, dogs have emotions too. Who wants to eat alone? For sure, you don't. So to top it all, all of your ingredients are good, its just the matter of the way you give it.  best wishes


Canine and human needs are not the same. The needs of all humans are not the same.

Dogs do not have an innate need for human companionship while eating. This is a learned behavior. I have 6 beagles. Beagles are a breed that is highly food motivated and known to get along very well as a pack. That is until mealtime. They do not believe in sharing food. If fed together the more dominant would take food from the ones that are lower in the pack order. I am not fond of bloody ears or vet visits. The dogs are fed in separate crates with me at a distance observing.

Sitting by your dog during mealtime may be creating an emotional dependency where the dog will not eat unless you are there. Ask yourself what will happen if the dog must stay at the vet for an extended period, must be boarded or is lost? What will happen if you are sick, injured or otherwise unable to be with the dog?

I live alone in the country. Eating alone makes no difference in my day. If I wanted or needed human companionship every time I ate I'd be missing a lot of meals.


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## pig mad (Aug 14, 2013)

To me its not about being easier cause it is a lot of work for sure it is about feeding the best possible feed I can for my dogs. I was wondering can I send blood away to be check if the dog is healthy? Can I send a sample of my food away for analysis? If so what do I ask for and who do I send it to?


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## FBarnes (Feb 17, 2013)

Do they seem healthy? I get my dogs blood tests at our local vet every six months or so. 

Two things:
First, I wouldn't feed so little variety. To me, you need different proteins.

Second, unless your veggies are pureed or cooked your dogs aren't getting much nutrition from them. If they are just chopped I doubt they can absorb very much.

Not sure where the "dogs don't like to eat alone" comes from but I can assure you my dogs LOVE to eat alone. Or with me. Or with a whole stadium full of people watching. Or underground, in a hole, in the bathroom. Makes no difference to them.


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## FBarnes (Feb 17, 2013)

And they need some bones for calcium.


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## pig mad (Aug 14, 2013)

The meat does vary sometimes it is kangaroo other times it is beef but most the time it is boar pig. I run the veges through a food processor then through the mincer twice you can barely see it in the food.
why do they need variety though I have had dogs on kibble and maybe only change brands once in their life.
they get bones but not every day I keep all the bones out of animals that supply the meat...
we dont have local vet here I live in the outback...


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## FBarnes (Feb 17, 2013)

Kibble isn't the same as raw meat. It's formulated to have 100% of their nutritional needs, theoretically. Different proteins have different nutrients in them and different amounts of nutrients. Also, I believe feeding as many parts of an animal as you can is important - a heart is more nutritionally dense than muscle meat. Your wild boar is probably a great meat as they are not farmed and raised in the wild which gives them alot of stuff grocery store meat in the US doesn't have.

But in the end, I think if they are healthy and looking good, energetic, no problems - you shouldn't worry.


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## sassymaxmom (Dec 7, 2008)

The proportions of the various ingredients are extremely important. Nobody could say whether your food is completely horrible or absolutely perfect from your description.

You can make up a recipe on a site like Nutrition facts, calories in food, labels, nutritional information and analysis – NutritionData.com to see what nutrients are present in your food. You can also put the vitamins and minerals that you use in as a custom food and add them in. If you put the exact nutrients one of your dogs needs into My Preferences then the % of each nutrient present would come up in My Tracking.


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## pig mad (Aug 14, 2013)

20kg meat
10kg fish
8kg brown rice 
4 kg veges
4kg organs
enough fat to make 20% of the volume
vitamins and calcium at recomended dose per 500gm


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## LilasMom (Mar 10, 2012)

I think you are really over complicating things. And there is no need for rice, grains are not good for dogs. All you need it 80% meat, 10% bone, and 10 organ meat. If you fed like this you wouldn't need any veggies, grains, or supplements.


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## pig mad (Aug 14, 2013)

I feed the brown rice for carbohydrates and fibre. I find it hard to beleive a dog could hunt a whole day just on meat bones and organs high performance kibble is 30% protein 20% fat I try to get as close to that as possible. I am not doing a maintenance diet I am trying to do a performance diet.


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## pig mad (Aug 14, 2013)

dog is not going to hold those pigs on a maintenance diet


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## LilasMom (Mar 10, 2012)

Dogs have no need for carbs or fiber. Just meat, bones, and organs does provide all the energy they need. They get the energy from fat and protein, and veggies and grains don't really have any of that. You don't want to attempt to match kibble protein-fat ratios because you aren't feeding a kibble diet, you are feeding a wet, raw diet so I don't think you can compare it like that. Grains have no place in a dogs diet.


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## Fundog (Oct 25, 2012)

Believe it or not, fruits and vegetables also are carbohydrates! They just aren't "starch." But they are carbs, nonetheless. Really, grains are not good for dogs. It makes sense when you realize that grass fed animals are better for dogs (and us humans) than grain fed animals. Also, meat does contain some carbohydrates-- not as much as a potato, but some-- these are residual carbs stored in the muscle from the plants the prey animal eats. 

Even human muscle stores carbohydrates. When you exercise vigorously, you burn off glucose (a by-product of carbohydrates) first, before burning off fat. 

Also, if you can get a hold of a ruminant stomach (cattle, sheep, goats) occasionally, and feed green tripe, that is excellent too, and will also provide some carbohydrates (the scraps of partially digested food the animal ate before slaughter), as well as some probiotics and digestive enzymes. It's not "necessary" to feed green tripe, but it is certainly an excellent supplement. : )


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## pig mad (Aug 14, 2013)

52% meat
20% fat
14% brown rice
7% organs
7% vegetable

plus all racing greyhound supplements to recomended dose rate.
I would not be comfortable feeding just meat and organs.

example of waiste I have 700gm going in and 70 to 80gm coming out thats a 10 to 11% waiste so about 90% of what they eat is digested. If it was bad would they not be doing big kibble type shits?


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## pig mad (Aug 14, 2013)

52% meat
20% fat
14% brown rice
7% organs
7% vegetable

plus all racing greyhound supplements to recomended dose rate.
I would not be comfortable feeding just meat and organs.

example of waiste I have 700gm going in and 70 to 80gm coming out thats a 10 to 11% waiste so about 90% of what they eat is digested. If it was bad would they not be doing big kibble type shits?


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## pig mad (Aug 14, 2013)

I give them 1 tablespoon of yoghurt and a teaspoon of psylium husk also..


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

pig mad said:


> The meat does vary sometimes it is kangaroo other times it is beef but most the time it is boar pig. I run the veges through a food processor then through the mincer twice you can barely see it in the food.
> why do they need variety though I have had dogs on kibble and maybe only change brands once in their life.
> they get bones but not every day I keep all the bones out of animals that supply the meat...
> we dont have local vet here I live in the outback...


Variety is how they get all the needed nutrients, because different meat has different nutrients. Just like the way you eat a variety of different foods yourself. 

Kibble has artificially added ingredients because it is cooked and all nutrition gets cooked out.


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

pig mad said:


> 52% meat
> 20% fat
> 14% brown rice
> 7% organs
> ...


Why aren't you comfortable feeding just meat bones and organs? Whatever little nutrients they may get out of veggies, is nothing that isn't already in raw meat/bones/organs in a perfectly usable form for a dog.


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## lauren43 (Feb 6, 2011)

If its working for your dogs I don't see the problem, it's you who has to be comfortable not anyone else. Check it with the nutrient profile posted and go from there.


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## Celt (Dec 27, 2010)

pig mad said:


> How can I check if what I am feeding is nutritionaly right??


It looks like you are using more of a BARF style of feeding, not PMR, which if that's what you're comfortable with and your pups do good on it, is great. I'm not sure what's included in the greyhound supplement but will assume it meets the requirements. The only way, I know of, to check on your dogs' health is to run a full (senior) blood panel. This panel can show any "problems" that might be occurring. That can be pretty expensive in some areas, and might involve travel if your local "small town" vet can't do it. Although most vet clinics, even a few mobile clinics, can run this blood panel.
I think, in some areas, it is advised not to feed raw wild pork due to some issue that's only "killed off" through cooking, so you might want to check on that. Umm, I think it had something to do with rabies like symptoms.Not sure if this is a real problem or an internet created one.


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## FBarnes (Feb 17, 2013)

I'm not going to argue that you shouldn't be feeding grains. I say if you want to, feed grains.

However, it is not true that performance dogs have to have them. I know at least three people with search and rescue dogs that perform phenomenally day after day on a prey model diet.

Dogs get their energy from fat. There are some people with performance dogs who will argue that they perform better on dry dog food than on prey model. It's been discussed here ad nauseum for years, frankly. So I hope this thread doesn't turn into that - it's about your question on whether what you are feeding your dog is nutritionally balanced. If your veggies are pureed or cooked as well as your grains, your dogs will get nutrition from them.

And I will say again - if they are healthy, are performing at a high level which you say they are, aren't having any health issues - you are doing it right. I don't think you need blood tests or to worry. To me, it would be nice if you could give a bigger variety of proteins but maybe what you are giving them is just fine.


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## FBarnes (Feb 17, 2013)

Celt said:


> It looks like you are using more of a BARF style of feeding, not PMR, which if that's what you're comfortable with and your pups do good on it, is great. I'm not sure what's included in the greyhound supplement but will assume it meets the requirements. The only way, I know of, to check on your dogs' health is to run a full (senior) blood panel. This panel can show any "problems" that might be occurring. That can be pretty expensive in some areas, and might involve travel if your local "small town" vet can't do it. Although most vet clinics, even a few mobile clinics, can run this blood panel.
> I think, in some areas, it is advised not to feed raw wild pork due to some issue that's only "killed off" through cooking, so you might want to check on that. Umm, I think it had something to do with rabies like symptoms.Not sure if this is a real problem or an internet created one.


I agree with Celt that you should freeze the meat. They don't seem to have trichinosis in Australia, but they have sparganosis - sounds very similar to trichinosis, and brucellosis, among otheres. Here is a site that lists diseases of feral pigs in Australia. I assume it's the same as wild boar?

Australian Pig Doggers and Hunters Association Inc. - Diseases of Feral Pigs in Australia


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## pig mad (Aug 14, 2013)

I am a member of APDHA. I catch pigs for export to europe for human consumption I know all about the diseases pigs have and that freezing kills the worms yet I have never seen spargnosis in a pig but making my food in bulk of course it is frozen.
I run my dogs 4km each morning before work if I skimp on the fat they loose condition pretty quick.
I go through nearly 4kg of food a day...
I dont realy see a search and rescue dog as a high level working dog.
sled dogs yeah pitbulls yeah thats the people I would like advice from a few little shitzu terriers are not working dogs..


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## LilasMom (Mar 10, 2012)

pig mad said:


> I am a member of APDHA. I catch pigs for export to europe for human consumption I know all about the diseases pigs have and that freezing kills the worms yet I have never seen spargnosis in a pig but making my food in bulk of course it is frozen.
> I run my dogs 4km each morning before work if I skimp on the fat they loose condition pretty quick.
> I go through nearly 4kg of food a day...
> *I dont realy see a search and rescue dog as a high level working dog.*
> sled dogs yeah pitbulls yeah thats the people I would like advice from a few little shitzu terriers are not working dogs..


I think many people here will disagree with that comment, and the one below about "a few little shitzu terriers" was rude. Shitzus aren't even terriers. A pitbulls stomach is no different than my yorkies, well except maybe the size. Just because my dog is small does not mean she needs less. As a yorkie, she actually has a LOT of energy, and if she were a large dog she would be like a border collie. Very smart, needs exercise and stimulation. She probably works just as hard as large active dogs but it seems less because she is small. P

But in all seriousness, there are really no different dietary needs between pit bulls, sled dogs, terriers, yorkies, maltese, pugs, etc. The only differences would be food amounts.


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## FBarnes (Feb 17, 2013)

You should ask BARF feeders. There's a forum on it here somewhere.

There are raw fed sled dogs. And like Lila, I think people with SAR dogs would disagree that they aren't high level working dogs. I have a friend who trains her dog for SAR in the Alps and the dog is an incredible athlete. I'm pretty sure training and searching in snow and ice in a very high altitude is at least as strenuous as chasing pigs.


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## LilasMom (Mar 10, 2012)

Yes I think it would be better if you asked your questions here : BARF and Alternative Feeding , since you are feeding BARF raw and not just plain prey model raw.


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## pig mad (Aug 14, 2013)

The nutritional requirements for a hard working dog are alot different than that of a lap dog obviously this is not the site I was looking for sorry for the disturbance and thanks for the download sheet I will fire up the computer and download it today.


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## pig mad (Aug 14, 2013)

Search and rescue dog running round is a lot less physical than holding 80kg of wild boar still waiting for someone to catch it and take it from him especially when you times that by a minimum of 10. I dont put 15 dogs on a boar 1 dog 1 pig...


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## Fundog (Oct 25, 2012)

You might be better off joining a hunting dog forum, then.


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## pig mad (Aug 14, 2013)

Been there done that they are all kibble feeders


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## smaughunter (Apr 27, 2012)

If your dogs are looking good, good weight, muscle tone, preforming like you want then I wouldn't worry about it. You are feeding wild boar, kangaroo, beef, and fish. That is the minimum 4 protein sources. As others have said if it was me I wouldn't feed the rice but if that is what you are comfortable with and it is working for you I say stick with it. 

The biggest difference in needs between a preformance and non preformance dog on raw is the amount or calories and fat. Fortunately raw meat, bones and organs provide for the nutritional needs of dogs perfectly. The highest performance hunting canines, wolves, are fueled solely by it and depend on their preformance for survival.


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## LilasMom (Mar 10, 2012)

smaughunter said:


> If your dogs are looking good, good weight, muscle tone, preforming like you want then I wouldn't worry about it. You are feeding wild boar, kangaroo, beef, and fish. That is the minimum 4 protein sources. As others have said if it was me I wouldn't feed the rice but if that is what you are comfortable with and it is working for you I say stick with it.
> 
> The biggest difference in needs between a preformance and non preformance dog on raw is the amount or calories and fat. Fortunately raw meat, bones and organs provide for the nutritional needs of dogs perfectly. *The highest performance hunting canines, wolves, are fueled solely by it and depend on their preformance for survival.*


Exactly. I don't see why one can't just increase the food portions if their dog is pretty active as well.


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## Herzo (Feb 5, 2011)

I don't see why everyone got in a big heap.......his dogs are using more energy than most of ours and I am including Richter whom is.....that is if when I let him out of the lawn....running pell mell.

Shall we not be diva's. pig mad pm me and I may have a sight that will help you out.

But also pig mad lets not under rate search and rescue dogs and say these things like this and think your dogs are working harder than any ones. I see allot of sheep dogs where I live and they can work very much as hard as your pig dogs. So lets just admire our dogs for what they do


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