# China's hair is getting coarse and thin



## rockymtsweetie82 (Jul 24, 2008)

Here I was bragging in another thread about how Purina Puppy Chow is great for my dogs...And I noticed China's hair is getting coarse to the touch and seems to be thinning out. I remembered that I was told to try Lamb and Rice formula with another dog of mine a while back when he had Mange, the vet said a Lamb and Rice formula would help his hair grow back faster. I've decided to switch to that formula, but still Purina. Is there something besides raw eggs I can give her to help her hair come in thicker and healthier? Now, understand I do not feed my dogs a raw diet. The occasional table scrap, raw bones, and the 3x weekly raw egg in the shell. She's due for a vet visit in a couple weeks, I just wondered if there was anything I could do in the meantime. Thanks!


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## Oz'sMommy (Sep 9, 2008)

fish oil i've heard from many also helps.


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## Rexandbaby (Aug 4, 2008)

Mineral oil I heard works with the kibble. Don't know, that is why I am here and learning. ???


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## rannmiller (Jun 27, 2008)

No offense but you were bragging about Purina anything? My dog was [unfortunately] on Purina Dog Chow for the first four years of her life, after that she was overweight and had dry flaky skin. 
I don't think you should feed a raw egg with kibble since the raw egg needs to digest quickly so your dog doesn't have the risk of getting salmonella which is only possible if it is fed alone (longer than 12 hours since kibble) or with other raw. 
I'd recommend salmon oil, my brother uses oil capsules for his lab and it's done wonders for him. And salmon oil has no chance to contaminate with salmonella. Also flaxseed is supposed to help, sunflower oil is a good source of omega 6 fatty acids which are what really help with the skin and coat. 
Corn often causes skin and coat problems, so maybe you could upgrade to Purina One or Pro Plan that has less corn and by-products (heads, feed, intestines) in a lamb and rice formula. Or try Costco's Kirkland brand of lamb and rice and add the salmon oil, that might save some money and it has good ingredients too!


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## rockymtsweetie82 (Jul 24, 2008)

rannmiller said:


> I don't think you should feed a raw egg with kibble since the raw egg needs to digest quickly so your dog doesn't have the risk of getting salmonella which is only possible if it is fed alone (longer than 12 hours since kibble) or with other raw.


I know when to feed her her raw compared to her kibble. My dogs don't get their raw treats until dinnertime. She's been on this diet since I got her. And I like Purina. I've not had a problem with it and just because I mentioned it, doesn't mean that it is the dog food that's making her hair this way. I was simply asking for simple suggestions.


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## BabyHusky (Jul 21, 2008)

I understand that you have not had a problem with Purina so of course why change anything...but Purina has caused problems for many others so why wait till it "may" cause a problem for your pups? A dog's food has a lot to do with their coat, etc. Purina just is not a good food source. If you upgraded to something better, it would probably eliminate a lot of the little extras you are doing. Or like Rann said, Kirkland will probably be better and its not expensive.


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## rannmiller (Jun 27, 2008)

rockymtsweetie82 said:


> I know when to feed her her raw compared to her kibble. My dogs don't get their raw treats until dinnertime. She's been on this diet since I got her. I was simply asking for simple suggestions.


I didn't mean to offend, hence my starting off my entire post with "no offense." I only mentioned not feeding the raw egg with the kibble because I know a lot of people who just put the egg on the food and call it good, not knowing to do otherwise. 


rockymtsweetie82 said:


> And I like Purina. I've not had a problem with it and just because I mentioned it, doesn't mean that it is the dog food that's making her hair this way.


I liked Purina too, for the first four years of my dog's life until the skin problems started occurring. 


rockymtsweetie82 said:


> I was simply asking for simple suggestions.


I changed her food and her skin problems cleared up. 
I thought I gave you very nice suggestions: change to the lamb and rice Kirkland brand: $20 for a 40 lbs bag. 
Try to add some salmon oil and maybe some Missing Link. The money you save on dog food can go towards these slightly more expensive supplements to improve the coat. 
I know of a lab who was on Pedigree and his coat got dull and brittle. His parents added some DinoVite to his food and now his coat is the softest thing in the world. Course I just got them to switch over to Orijen too to take care of his horrible bowel movement problems and hopefully now they wont have to feed him the supplements anymore once it gets integrated into his system. 
Again, sorry if I offended you, I was just trying to be helpful. I wish someone had alerted me to changing my dog's food earlier than 4 years after she was on it, but she's doing well now so it's all good.


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## rockymtsweetie82 (Jul 24, 2008)

I've never heard of Kirkland, but what about Nutro or something at the local Pet Supplies Plus? I don't wanna have to spend a TON of money,but if I can get a good sized bag then I'm really not worried of the cost if it's not outrageous. I want my dogs hair to be healthy. That's all I really care about. Is their health. And if I have to spend the money, I will. I just never had a problem til now with the purina. (EW, went to Purina One and it's like double Purina Chow and the bag isn't even that big!)


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## BabyHusky (Jul 21, 2008)

From what I've heard and read, Nutro has its ups and downs also. Kirkland is the Costco brand of food. Its ingredients aren't too bad and its really affordable.


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## rannmiller (Jun 27, 2008)

Nutro is alright, I'd recommend sticking with the Natural Choice or the Ultra if you're going to go that route. That'll run you closer to $40 for a 40 lbs bag. However, Nutro has been known to make some dogs ill, my brother's dog for example was very temporarily switched to Nutro but he started vomiting every night, so they switched him back to Kirkland food and fish oil capsules.


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## BoxerMommie (Jun 26, 2008)

rockymtsweetie82 said:


> I've never heard of Kirkland, but what about Nutro or something at the local Pet Supplies Plus? I don't wanna have to spend a TON of money,but if I can get a good sized bag then I'm really not worried of the cost if it's not outrageous. I want my dogs hair to be healthy. That's all I really care about. Is their health. And if I have to spend the money, I will. I just never had a problem til now with the purina. (EW, went to Purina One and it's like double Purina Chow and the bag isn't even that big!)


Kirkland food is sold at Costco it is their own brand of dog food and is decent for the money. I would skip Nutro if you look through the posts here you will find that Nutro has had many problems making dogs sick, etc. Um for chain store foods I'd go with Blue Buffalo, Solid Gold, Natural Balance, Wellness, just depends on the chain. Check out www.dogfoodanalysis.com and that can help you to choose a food. You want to be feeding at least a 4 star food and that should resolve your issues.

Good luck.


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## rockymtsweetie82 (Jul 24, 2008)

I'm not sure where there's a costco either (I'm fairly new to the area and don't know a lot about it) So I'll definitely check out the link and thanks so much for the advice. My main concern is to make sure my dogs are and stay healthy. Thanks again!


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## BoxerMommie (Jun 26, 2008)

rockymtsweetie82 said:


> I'm not sure where there's a costco either (I'm fairly new to the area and don't know a lot about it) So I'll definitely check out the link and thanks so much for the advice. My main concern is to make sure my dogs are and stay healthy. Thanks again!


go to www.costco.com and click on find locations stores whatever type in your zip and you should fine your nearest one. It's a membership warehouse so you have to pay $50 a year to join, however with a 40 pound bag of food for $22 it's worth the $50 a year plus they have other great stuff too.

Good luck!


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## Guest (Sep 19, 2008)

Also keep in mind that when you feed a better food, you end up feeding less of it so it evens out. 

My dog came home from the rescue 11 years ago on Science Diet. At 54lbs, he was going through the largest bag (can't remember if it's a 35lb or a 40lb) a month. A month! Have you seen the cost of Science Diet lately? I work at PetSmart, and my job involves pricing. The large bag of Science Diet right now at my store averages $44.99. $44.99 for corn, beet pulp, by-products and other nasties.

He's currently on Orijen, which is costing me $65.99 for a 29.7lb bag. However, that bag is lasting me a little more than 3 months. 

If you really want the most bang for your buck, find the closest store selling California Natural, Natural Balance, or Wellness (in fact, PetCo sells all 3 of those). PetSmart has Avoderm and Blue Buffalo. Or, do as already mentioned above and join Costco.

I took a look at the ingredients in one of the Pedigree (not much different than Purina) formulas recently, after not doing so in quite some time. To tell you the truth it made me sick to my stomach knowing what crap some companies market as "healthy" food for dogs. They're able to do this because people just plain don't know any better. Look at the Purina Beneful commercials, they do a pretty good job of convincing people that their food is great (while corn and wheat are raining from the sky). It's all about the marketing. Meanwhile, people have no clue that there are healthier options out there because the better companies don't do a whole lot of advertisement. They spend their potential marketing dollars on making actual good food. 

There was such an initial improvement when we switched my dog from Science Diet to Canidae many years ago. His coat went from being very harsh to being silky soft. At this point in time, it's so silky it just makes you want to bury your face in it. I've yet to feel another Siberian with such a lovely coat. Then again, most of the ones I meet are fed crap foods (I work at PetSmart remember). 

I can almost guarantee you that if you switch to a better food, you'll never ever want to go back to Purina.


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## rockymtsweetie82 (Jul 24, 2008)

I am definitely making a trip to Pet Supplies Plus this weekend. And the closest Costco is about an hour from me, making it difficult but if the food will last me 2-3 months for a large bag then SIGN ME UP! The hair on her head is starting to soften since we switched to Lamb and Rice Purina One but I want the best for her because as the last poster said "_ don't know any better" and now that I do, I'm so going to make sure my pups live long healthy, soft coat lives!!! Thanks so much for all the advice. I really appreciate it!_


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## Beowulf08 (Sep 24, 2008)

I personally don't think Purina is a good brand of food to feed your dogs. I feed my dogs the diamond brand food, has less by-products in it.


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## BoxerMommie (Jun 26, 2008)

Beowulf08 said:


> I personally don't think Purina is a good brand of food to feed your dogs. I feed my dogs the diamond brand food, has less by-products in it.


I would recommend to you to upgrade from diamond as it a) isn't such a wonderful company they don't seem to give a hoot about their product or customers and b) it may have less by products but it is still a pretty low grade food.


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## Beowulf08 (Sep 24, 2008)

I was told that kirkland brand food is made by the diamond brand company.


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## BoxerMommie (Jun 26, 2008)

Beowulf08 said:


> I was told that kirkland brand food is made by the diamond brand company.


It is manufactured by them however the ingredients are far different than Diamond's food itself and Kirkland's food is backed by Costco's guarantee you do not go through Diamond if you need to return it, etc.

Kirkland brand is better than Diamond's line, but actual Diamond food is pretty crummy.

Chicken Soup food is also made by Diamond however, like Kirkland, they have not had the issues that the actual brand Diamond has had since the ingredients are better.


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## Beowulf08 (Sep 24, 2008)

Thats good to know, I was also told that nutra nuggets was made by Diamond too, is this brand better than the diamond line? Also would it be better to switch to the kirkland brand than?


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## BoxerMommie (Jun 26, 2008)

Beowulf08 said:


> Thats good to know, I was also told that nutra nuggets was made by Diamond too, is this brand better than the diamond line? Also would it be better to switch to the kirkland brand than?


Yes Nutra nuggets is and it's a crummy food too.

If you can afford better than Kirkland I would get better, however if that's the best you can afford and you have a Costco near you and a membership then the Kirkland brand is better than the Diamond brand food yes.


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## Beowulf08 (Sep 24, 2008)

we dont have a costco membership, so which food do you recommend switching to from diamond brand?


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## Beowulf08 (Sep 24, 2008)

Im not concerned with the cost of the food i want my dogs to have the best, and i was of course told diamond was really good.


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## BoxerMommie (Jun 26, 2008)

Depending on the size fo your dogs if you have a Costco near you it may behoove you to get a membership. It's $50 a year for one and the food is a 40 pound bag for $22. 

Check out www.dogfooanalysis.com you want to be feeding at least a 4 star food. It doesn't cover everything but it's the basics anyway.

Wellness, Solid Gold, Natural Balance, Innova, California Natural to name a few are all good foods. Wellness, Solid Gold and Natural Balance are sold at PetCo if you need a large chain and PetSmart sells Blue Buffalo which isn't a bad food. The others you'd have to look on their website to find a dealer near you. Innova and CA Natural are both made by the same company www.naturapet.com


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## Beowulf08 (Sep 24, 2008)

Thanks for the info, I will go check out the food at the feed store tomorrow.


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## BoxerMommie (Jun 26, 2008)

Beowulf08 said:


> Im not concerned with the cost of the food i want my dogs to have the best, and i was of course told diamond was really good.



I sent you a PM so make sure to check that


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## rannmiller (Jun 27, 2008)

Yeah I was pretty appalled by Diamond when I finally read their ingredients. Glad I never fed it! Of course I fed Purina dog chow so i really have no room to brag.


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## Beowulf08 (Sep 24, 2008)

I used to feed pedigree, we don't just automatically know what to feed our dogs. We just have to learn what to feed them, and whats good and whats not. But now that i know diamond isn't that good im defiantly going to switch dog foods. I feel horrible now because i thought i was feeding my doggies good. But hey we all have to live and learn right?:smile: The important thing is that we get on the right track to feed our dogs whats better for them!


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## BoxerMommie (Jun 26, 2008)

Beowulf08 said:


> I used to feed pedigree, we don't just automatically know what to feed our dogs. We just have to learn what to feed them, and whats good and whats not. But now that i know diamond isn't that good im defiantly going to switch dog foods. I feel horrible now because i thought i was feeding my doggies good. But hey we all have to live and learn right?:smile:


I agree. Heck I'll beat that I fed Ol Roy for a good long time as well as Dog Chow (which is probably on the same level as Pedigree but I imagine Ol Roy is worse), it was a good 4 years. I have since learned better and slowly upgraded, first to Kirkland brand (Costco's brand), then Chicken Soup, then Canidae which I was using for a LONG time until their formula change and now Natural Balance.


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## kirsti71 (Sep 27, 2008)

*what's going on?*

I am new to the forums -but I do belong to some others - but what is going on? I was invited to try this site and was hoping to get to discuss, learn and exchange information and knowledge among everyone. I have never read so many posts - daily - than on this site- there is no reason that anyone should be offended when you post a concern and get replies... I just don't understand- I thought we were here to help and support each other... I guess I was wrong and will continue looking for a friendly site. thanks though.


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## BoxerMommie (Jun 26, 2008)

kirsti71 said:


> I am new to the forums -but I do belong to some others - but what is going on? I was invited to try this site and was hoping to get to discuss, learn and exchange information and knowledge among everyone. I have never read so many posts - daily - than on this site- there is no reason that anyone should be offended when you post a concern and get replies... I just don't understand- I thought we were here to help and support each other... I guess I was wrong and will continue looking for a friendly site. thanks though.



Not sure how you found any of that thread unfriendly. She wanted help, she got it and is happy with results. Where's the problem?

And most sites have daily postings, that's what message boards are.


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## Yorkie Mom (Aug 25, 2008)

Just another suggestion, Royal Canin dog food has types of food specific to the breed or the size of dog. I don't know what breed your dog is, but certain breeds are predisposed to certain health issues. You can google Royal Canin and read about the type that suits your dog. It's not terribly expensive, and my vet said it's the best kibble that a dog can be fed. You can get it at PetSmart, but it's cheaper to order online. I would talk to your vet to track down the culprit. Hope this helps!


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## Beowulf08 (Sep 24, 2008)

kirsti71 said:


> I am new to the forums -but I do belong to some others - but what is going on? I was invited to try this site and was hoping to get to discuss, learn and exchange information and knowledge among everyone. I have never read so many posts - daily - than on this site- there is no reason that anyone should be offended when you post a concern and get replies... I just don't understand- I thought we were here to help and support each other... I guess I was wrong and will continue looking for a friendly site. thanks though.


I didn't think anything that was said was unfriendly by any means either. When you come onto a message board and ask questions or ask for advice, thats exactly what you will get. I would want people to be honest with me even if i didn't like what they were saying. i know sometimes people on boards arnt always nice, you can still give your opinions and advice in a nice friendly manner.:smile:


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## BoxerMommie (Jun 26, 2008)

Yorkie Mom said:


> Just another suggestion, Royal Canin dog food has types of food specific to the breed or the size of dog. I don't know what breed your dog is, but certain breeds are predisposed to certain health issues. You can google Royal Canin and read about the type that suits your dog. It's not terribly expensive, and my vet said it's the best kibble that a dog can be fed. You can get it at PetSmart, but it's cheaper to order online. I would talk to your vet to track down the culprit. Hope this helps!



Unfortunately your vet is wrong, it's one of the crummiest foods that can be fed with low quality ingredients and there's nothing in them different than other foods of it's kind. The breed specifics are just a market gimmick, and a poor quality food at that.


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## Beowulf08 (Sep 24, 2008)

BoxerMommie said:


> Unfortunately your vet is wrong, it's one of the crummiest foods that can be fed with low quality ingredients and there's nothing in them different than other foods of it's kind. The breed specifics are just a market gimmick, and a poor quality food at that.


My vet told me that Diamond brand is a good food, But really i don't think vets should be recommending food either, you should talk to a nutritionist. Vets are either naive, or they play a part in the marketing for dog food. I've been going to the same vet for a few years now, and really they are awesome! They always go out on a limb for us, and our dogs love them, and they have always had our dogs best interest at heart. So im not bad mouthing them, i think they are great, but im not going to take any food recommendations from them. :smile:


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## BoxerMommie (Jun 26, 2008)

I love my vet but yes I would not take food advice either. They're just not educated on nutrition as most have heard of Pedigree and not of Wellness. But they're vets not dieticians or nutritionists. In all fairness they really shouldn't know.


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## Beowulf08 (Sep 24, 2008)

I agree. They really shouldn't know about nutrition, and what to feed your dogs.


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## rannmiller (Jun 27, 2008)

I wouldn't say Royal Canin is the crummiest food out there, but it definitely isn't the best, especially not for the price and it's definitely a marketing gimmick. 

If you want nutritional advice from a veterinarian, seek out a veterinary nutritionist. They did the extra 4 years of studying, researching, training, exams, etc. to get the title after all.


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## Yorkie Mom (Aug 25, 2008)

I had no idea it wasn't good.. The breeder I ogt my second pooch from highly recommended it. And you already know what my vet said... My other two were fed Pedigree and Purina and I switched both of them to Royal Canin and there was a visible change. Their coat got nicer and their teeth less dirty (yorkies are prone to tartar and their coat is their biggest feature) So I was impressed... What do you suggest?


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## BabyHusky (Jul 21, 2008)

The Naturapet lines are really good, as is Wellness, Natural Balance, Merricks, Orijen, the list goes on! =)

Im fortunate to recently have found out a close family friend is a vet, so I drive 40 minutes to see him and its well worth it. He sells SD at his facility and when I told him I feed my pup Innova, he said that he's impressed I did my research haha. His dogs get California Natural.


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## BoxerMommie (Jun 26, 2008)

It's hard to suggest a food without knowing what is available to you.

I recommend looking at www.dogfoodanalysis.com and choosing a 4, 5, or 6 star food that is sold in your area and in your price range.

My recommendations are usually Wellness, Natual Balance, Solid Gold, California Natural, or Innova as they are all good foods at reasonable prices. Natural Balance, Wellness, and Solid Gold can be found at PetCo if you have one.


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## Yorkie Mom (Aug 25, 2008)

I will check out that website, thanks!


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## BoxerMommie (Jun 26, 2008)

And they list most if not all of the Royal Canin foods as a 2 star (out of 6). I have also found along the way that (oddly enough) most breeders know very little on dog nutrition and feed poor quality food (not all but many) and a normal vet typically knows even less...unfortunately.


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## Yorkie Mom (Aug 25, 2008)

Crazy. You would think that they would know what to recommend.


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## BoxerMommie (Jun 26, 2008)

A breeder maybe, but not a vet. You don't go to your doctor on what to eat you go to a dietician. There are licensed canine nutritionists that is their job they go to school for quite a long time to become a canine nutritionist and that's who you go to if you need one, not a vet (unless they happen to also be a nutritionist).


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## Yorkie Mom (Aug 25, 2008)

No, but a general doctor would at least have the knowledge to advise you towards a better diet and would then tell you to contact a dietician. You know, they wouldn't just answer you matter-o-factly. 
But thanks, I will continue to search for a better food.


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## BoxerMommie (Jun 26, 2008)

Because they think they know and because they sell food. If they gear you towards something better they lose money. Same as many vets still swear up and down you need yearly vaccines why because if they tell you otherwise they lose a very large percentage of their income. I'm not saying they're all money hungry, but it IS a business and they think they know.

Most vets have never heard of Wellness or Canidae but I will guarantee they've all heard of Iams and Science Diet. Because those are the companies that market towards them and fill their head with untrue garbage.


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## rannmiller (Jun 27, 2008)

BoxerMommie said:


> Most vets have never heard of Wellness or Canidae but I will guarantee they've all heard of Iams and Science Diet. Because those are the companies that market towards them and fill their head with untrue garbage.


Yes so when their heads are filled with this untrue garbage, they believe that they are recommending you the best food... based on what they've been told by the companies that pay them. 

I've seen one vet clinic in Reno that does it the smart way: they know that the better, high end foods are better for pets, so they sell them in their office. Then they can feel good about their recommendations, and makes ome profit off of the food they sell. Probably not nearly as much as SD, Iams, Purina and RC pay them, but at least it's something. 

Anyway, you probably saw a huge improvement in your dogs' condition because RC is better than Pedigree and Purina, but not the best food, by any means. 

And if PetsMart is your main option for dog food, your options are more limited, Blue is the best food they've got there. Petco Definitely has a few more options. And there's your local doggy boutique/specialty stores too, they'll have the best selection. 

Happy hunting! Let us know if you make a decision, I'm always interested in these things.


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## BoxerMommie (Jun 26, 2008)

There's also tractor supply stores as well as horse supply/feed and tack stores if you live in a rural area. I've actually found the feed stores (that also sell hay, oats, horse supplies and cattle supplies, etc) to carry the best selection of all with the best prices.


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## Yorkie Mom (Aug 25, 2008)

Well I have been looking over that website, and will show my husband when he gets home. I certainly don't want to feed my dogs food that is inferior. We are new to the area, but I will look around and see what I find. Thanks, I will let you know what we decide to do!


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## Beowulf08 (Sep 24, 2008)

I thought i would update, im now feeding my dogs Kirkland dog food from costco, and my girl loves it! She is a very picky eater too, so when she likes it im very surprised.


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## rockymtsweetie82 (Jul 24, 2008)

Along with the Lamb & Rice formula I've changed my dogs to, I've also been giving them fish oil and Brewer's Yeast w/ Garlic. They LOVE it. I hope to notice a huge difference in their coats soon. =D


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## rannmiller (Jun 27, 2008)

Make sure you check their ears often when they're on the brewer's yeast. My older dog, Kati, is highly allergic to yeast and got a yeast infection in her ears from being on SD prescription food for so long and it has been so hard to get rid of and she was completely miserable when it was in full swing. If they do start to have a reaction, you'll notice them scratching at their ears more or rubbing them on the floor to scratch them. The ears will start to look brown and dirty and have an odor to them. 

Hopefully your dog's aren't allergic, but I like to warn people because if I had known that was the cause of it (the vets didn't bother to tell us for 8 years that it was caused by a food allergy since we were buying the food from them) I would have switched her years ago.


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## rockymtsweetie82 (Jul 24, 2008)

Ah! Thanks so much for that information. I'll definitely keep a look out for it.


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