# Liver enzymes update



## Noodlesmadison (Sep 18, 2011)

So it's getting worse. Noodles liver enzymes were 299 last year (bad) and now they are 700 (ACK!!!)
I give her liver and I thought that would help her liver heal? Just like how kidney is good for the kidneys.
Am I doing something wrong?
She has a sonogram on Monday of her liver. I'm so nervous and hoping that the liver I've been giving her isn't good enough. (we tried milk thistle but it made no difference. Maybe she needed a very high dose, who knows_


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## FBarnes (Feb 17, 2013)

I'm so sorry to hear this  I agree that is pretty high. I don't know if the liver is helpful but it would be better if it were grass fed meat. I kinda don't think it helps, though - I hope you are continuing the milk thistle even though it hasn't helped yet. Is she feeling ok otherwise?


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## brindle (Mar 14, 2013)

Noodlesmadison said:


> So it's getting worse. Noodles liver enzymes were 299 last year (bad) and now they are 700 (ACK!!!)
> I give her liver and I thought that would help her liver heal? Just like how kidney is good for the kidneys.
> Am I doing something wrong?
> She has a sonogram on Monday of her liver. I'm so nervous and hoping that the liver I've been giving her isn't good enough. (we tried milk thistle but it made no difference. Maybe she needed a very high dose, who knows_


Go to a nutritionist. They will balance out a diet for your dog.


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

Noodlesmadison

The liver enzymes results are definitely too high for comfort but you really need to find out what is causing the liver to either work this hard or see if there is damage causing the numbers to be so high. The numbers are the visible response but you have to find the underlying cause. A vet internist would be where I went at least for a diagnosis and then to discuss a treatment plan and possibly tweaking his diet. Once you have a diagnosis you can adjust the diet or seek a nutritionist to assist in tweaking the diet. 

What are you feeding on a regular basis?

Liz


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

what does her general diet consist of? how old is she? was she vaccinated recently? has she been sick of late?


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## Candyd (Apr 11, 2013)

Elements stocked in liver make your dog's liver work too much. Feeding with liver can make your dog's disease get much worse. It is generally strongly advised against giving a big quantity of liver to dogs suffering from liver diseases.
Talk to your vet. I hope you will find a solution.


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## bett (Mar 15, 2012)

ok, does the dog show any signs of liver disease -lethargic, not eating, dark urine?

have you discussed why this is happening-did he eat something toxic?
what are you feeding?
sam-e, and milk thistle both support the liver as does a home cooked liver support diet (easy enough to find, or pm me)
rex was "poisoned" from the diamond issue last year and the internist told me to say "goodbye". 
with the help of special food (gross but it helped), milk thistle, sam-e and herbs concocted by pawhealer.com, his liver values are completely normal. it took a while, the drs are amazed and he was near death, last june.

right now i home cook, 40% meat (or chicken or turkey or fish), 40% veggies (cooked a bit) and 20% carbs (organic sweet potato).
he was 11 in feb.

i have him tested every couple of months now, to be sure he's ok.
he's ok.
fingers and paws crossed.


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## Noodlesmadison (Sep 18, 2011)

I'm concerned that maybe the meat she is eating has steroids in it (like in the animals feed). We buy her supermarket meat for the time being (can't find a stupid butcher walking distance and dont drive) and I'm worried. I was reading on a few sites that steroids can raise ALP liver enzyme level significantly.
Am I killing her with supermarket meat?


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## Noodlesmadison (Sep 18, 2011)

brindle said:


> Go to a nutritionist. They will balance out a diet for your dog.


She's on a balanced raw diet with olive oil and fish oil supplements. That's all she needs.


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## Noodlesmadison (Sep 18, 2011)

bett said:


> ok, does the dog show any signs of liver disease -lethargic, not eating, dark urine?
> 
> have you discussed why this is happening-did he eat something toxic?
> what are you feeding?
> ...


 No signs except sometimes looks nauseous (but does not vomit) and she pees and drinks a lot (but she always has since her bladder surgery 2 years ago). Feeding supermarket meats (raw) right now. I give her all variety except pork (she can't handle it) and lamb (I can't handle it lol). I gave her milk thistle before and will start giving it tonight again. I'm glad to hear he is okay now!


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## Noodlesmadison (Sep 18, 2011)

Candyd said:


> Elements stocked in liver make your dog's liver work too much. Feeding with liver can make your dog's disease get much worse. It is generally strongly advised against giving a big quantity of liver to dogs suffering from liver diseases.
> Talk to your vet. I hope you will find a solution.


Okay I'll just give her a small amount once a week and keep it on the small side


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## Noodlesmadison (Sep 18, 2011)

magicre said:


> what does her general diet consist of? how old is she? was she vaccinated recently? has she been sick of late?


All raw (chicken mostly, beef, sardines, rarely veal, rarely rabbit) Has not been vaccinated. She had hepatitis from a vaccination 6 years ago and cannot have another shot ever again. Is it possible the hepatitis stayed dormant after we thought we got rid of it? For 6 years?? She is 10 years old now, a shih tzu. She has not been sick. In fact, we would not even know her liver enzymes were elevated if she didnt have a suspicious lump in her leg joint! (ended up benign)


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## Sheltielover25 (Jan 18, 2011)

Noodlesmadison said:


> All raw (chicken mostly, beef, sardines, rarely veal, rarely rabbit) Has not been vaccinated. She had hepatitis from a vaccination 6 years ago and cannot have another shot ever again. Is it possible the hepatitis stayed dormant after we thought we got rid of it? For 6 years?? She is 10 years old now, a shih tzu. She has not been sick. In fact, we would not even know her liver enzymes were elevated if she didnt have a suspicious lump in her leg joint! (ended up benign)


I do know Hepatitis can lay dormant, yes, for many years. You'd be surprised how long disease can lay dormant but continue to tear away at your organs. You're lucky you were able to spot it from random testing versus it was just getting to be too much. Most humans/animals don't find out these things until their body is basically shutting down and then it's considerably more work to fix it.

I doubt it's solely grocery store meat or one thing for that matter. It's probably a combination of having hep, chemicals in the food, chemicals in the water, chemicals in the air, chemicals in their bowls and toys and bedding and just everywhere. 

I would try to support the liver with supplements for sure. Start using clay to help detox for her. It sounds like her body just needs help pushing toxins out and the liver is being bombarded and overworked. I'd probably do a heavy metals test. They're only like $100 and you mail in a piece of fur. Then you can detox for metals. I know a lot about detoxing for humans, but not as much canines other than clay. Work with a vet though because it's vital to detox in a way that doesn't just release more toxins and cause more harm. It has to be a slow process or it does more harm than good.

Best of luck and sending healing vibes!


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## Noodlesmadison (Sep 18, 2011)

Sheltielover25 said:


> I do know Hepatitis can lay dormant, yes, for many years. You'd be surprised how long disease can lay dormant but continue to tear away at your organs. You're lucky you were able to spot it from random testing versus it was just getting to be too much. Most humans/animals don't find out these things until their body is basically shutting down and then it's considerably more work to fix it.
> 
> I doubt it's solely grocery store meat or one thing for that matter. It's probably a combination of having hep, chemicals in the food, chemicals in the water, chemicals in the air, chemicals in their bowls and toys and bedding and just everywhere.
> 
> ...


Thank you! I will talk to the vet on Monday (when her liver sonogram is happening) about detox and starting right away. This happened so fast so I'm in a shock about it. Her values werent great (299) last year but we all thought it was just a fluke of some kind. I wonder if heartworm medicine can also cause this.. that is the only other thing she takes. Thank you for the advice!


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

I personally believe anything chemical wise, including vaccines can, over time cause all sorts of issues. Maybe talk to your vet about heartworm med alternatives, and possibly titers instead of vaccines? Maybe that combined with some advice from others here you will see improvements. Let us know what the vet says.


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## Kat (Jul 12, 2011)

I'm tired so did not read the entire thread, so if this has been suggested sorry. 

Ruby had elevated liver enzymes for one year, started at 331 then went lower but still not within normal range. In February she was at 187 or something like that, normal cutoff is 118. 3 weeks ago she had a dental so had to get preop bloodwork and her liver values were in the perfect range, I couldn't believe it! 

I stopped giving milk thistle and other liver supplements at this point. The only things I changed in her raw diet were I decreased fat by half, started feeding fresh frozen herring, tripe, and more heart. I think it was the addition of the fresh fish and decreased fat that made such amazing results. 

Doing that could be worth a try, because Ruby was elevated for an entire year, then within two months of a diet change, she dropped to normal levels.

Also, see if you can find goat, excellent low fat red meat source  long term use of milk thistle and other liver supplements can apparently cause more issues, as the liver begins to rely on the herbs and does not clean itself. A clay that I have used on both of mine is bentonite clay liquid when they have upset tummies. It is a great detox too. At the advice of Liz, I used bentonite clay to detox Ruby after her dental procedure a few weeks ago to cleanse her body of all the meds and anesthetic she was on. 

I hope this helps. I know how you feel, since I have just finished going through this. Hang in there, it will get better. Her body just needs time to heal.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

i think what bett and kat suggested has merit.

liver damage, if that's what this is...can cause nausea, itchiness, etc...
and can make the kidneys and pancreas work harder too.

if you could feed lamb and goat, those would be gentle proteins..

milk thistle
dandelion
aloe
bentonite clay

kat is right that you don't want to use these long term, as they can start to have diminishing returns...


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

Dandelion root would probably be your best option right now. Bentonite can be given and will be a benefit also. 


Liz


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## Fundog (Oct 25, 2012)

Burdock root is another excellent food/herb. It is almost a wonder food. It grows naturally in many regions, but you can buy it in an Asian market, if it doesn't grow where you live. You can also get it in capsule form in the "vitamin" section at your favorite supermarket or herb store. It is a good detoxing agent, as well as an immune support, and is loaded with antioxidants and cancer-preventing properties. (It's good for humans for everyday too!)

Another root used to help heal a liver that has been affected by hepatitis is licorice root. 

Many herbs are much more powerful when used in conjunction with herbs of a similar ilk. (However, you do need to have some knowledge as to what you are doing, and do your research) I do think that perhaps the milk thistle alone is not affective enough by itself, and you may get better results by combining the milk thistle with burdock and licorice roots. Dandelion is very high in vitamin A, so do be careful not to overdose on the dandelion. 

Good luck. I hope the herbal therapies help. It's a way better option than putting more "drugs" aka medications into her over-worked liver.


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## Noodlesmadison (Sep 18, 2011)

UPDATE!:
had liver ultrasound - she has liver damage and hepatitis (which is a definite flare up from her past hepatitis).
I am so relieved it is nothing worse!  I am going to take all of your suggestions and try them. Thank you all so much.
We were given Denamarin and Metronidazole which I'll start tonight. Then tomorrow I'll stock up on all of your suggestions!


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

Good luck! Keep us informed.


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## Sheltielover25 (Jan 18, 2011)

Noodlesmadison said:


> UPDATE!:
> had liver ultrasound - she has liver damage and hepatitis (which is a definite flare up from her past hepatitis).
> I am so relieved it is nothing worse!  I am going to take all of your suggestions and try them. Thank you all so much.
> We were given Denamarin and Metronidazole which I'll start tonight. Then tomorrow I'll stock up on all of your suggestions!


Glad you got answers.... that's always such a relief. Keep that immune system up so the flareups can stay down. I'm in the same boat, not hepatitis, but dealing with several viruses and stuff... and when I get a blow to my immune system I can def feel those flareups!

Definitely keep us updated and I'll be sending healing vibes her way!

I also wanted to add how important is it to be careful with the detoxing stuff like clay/dandelion because it asks a lot of the liver and if the liver is compromised already you can do a lot of damage. If the liver is sluggish, the last thing you want is to push out a bunch of toxins and ask for the liver to work even harder. It can make you very sick so go slow... it sucks she can't tell you how she feels but pay super close attention to things as you introduce them slowly.


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