# Pink Urine



## catahoulamom

So, I get home from a horrible, exhausting day at work to discover that my 7 yr old cocker/lab x is peeing blood. I was walking in through the front door and she squatted on the pathway and peed a puddle of diluted urine with a pink tinge from blood. She never pees on the pathway, only in the grass. I'm so glad she did so I could see the color of her pee. 

We noticed two days ago that she was urinating a bit more frequently, I thought she may just have been marking (she has started marking more since CJ, her Alpha, passed last Nov). She has shown no symptoms of anything, no licking her vajayjay, no crying during urination, no straining that I've noticed... she's been playing/eating/barking, b*tchin' like normal. I had made a vet appointment for her just to get it checked on Wednesday, but after I got her urine sample (that looked completely normal BTW, maybe a bit stinky, but that's all) I didn't put it in the fridge and apparently it has to be refrigerated until it's tested, so I had to throw that one out before the appointment and couldn't get her to pee again, so I rescheduled the appointment for tomorrow. Well, now that I saw the pink puddle, I called a 24 hr vet down the street. It forwarded to his personal phone and he's meeting us there in thirty minutes. My mom and I don't want to wait until tomorrow. 

I'm scared that it could be bladder or kidney stones or something scary, instead of just an easy-to-treat UTI. Please hope for the best for us. 

Also, not planning on telling the vet I feed raw... especially not PMR. I've never been to him before but I looked him up online and it looks like he practices acupuncture as well, so maybe he'll be a little open minded...

Anybody have any words of wisdom for me? Haven't had to deal with a crisis since my old lady passed late last year... I hate this.


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## CavePaws

Sounds like a bladder infection or urinary tract infection to me.


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## Tobi

I've never dealt with it, but Definitely sending healing vibes your way, Try to be positive and think positive so that you don't worry yourself too bad. I wouldn't withhold information about diet as that is usually something they should know in my opinion.


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## DaneMama

It sounds like a urinary tract infection to me as well. The best urine to catch is the first morning pee....so hopefully you read this tonight before you go into the vet again. 

Keep us all posted please!


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## catahoulamom

Thanks for your concern, guys. We just got back from the vet. I could not imagine an hour ago feeling as secure and sound as I do now. This man was AMAZING! He and his vet tech pulled up, she was nervous and peed a little pink puddle so he checked the urine and also did blood work. Her blood work was PERFECT!!! I am going to scan the results and post them on here... more proof that RAW WORKS. He said "Whatever you are doing with this dog, keep on doing it. She is in perfect health" (besides what she was obviously there for)
Oh, and the diagnosis. He put her on the table and felt her abdomen and had me feel a certain place in her bladder. It's a bladder stone, and a decent sized one at that. I could feel it crumble. My mom kept asking "IS IT LIFE THREATENING?!" He said that he would like to do laser surgery tomorrow to remove it. He called it a "bloodless procedure". He went on to explain that the bladder has 4 layers, each that need to be sutured separately (if I understood correctly) and went very into depth about what needed to be done, and afterward we sat and spoke about pharmaceuticals and procedures, cancers, etc... he told me about his dogs, some clients dogs, we even spoke about how Heartguard caused my coworkers chihuahua to have seizures. He was full of information and I could have picked his brain all night.

So, surgery is tomorrow. :/ $900. He said he would like to keep her overnight just to make sure that she is still and doesn't pop anything. I don't like that... but he knows best I suppose. 

Oh, and Tobi, I agree. I did tell him what I fed her, I didn't want to withhold any information. His response? "You have one healthy dog."

So, I guess tonight turned out as good as it possibly could have.


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## catahoulamom

DaneMama said:


> It sounds like a urinary tract infection to me as well. The best urine to catch is the first morning pee....so hopefully you read this tonight before you go into the vet again.
> 
> Keep us all posted please!


Thanks Natalie! I thought it would have been a UTI as well, turned out to be worse, a bladder stone. She will have surgery tomorrow.  He said to expect more blood in her urine even after the surgery, that it will have to flush itself out.


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## DaneMama

UTI is the first thing I'd suggest, then a stone of some kind and if not that then a tumor of some kind. Those are the top three reasons why you see blood in the urine. 

Glad to hear that its a stone and not a tumor! The price of the surgery seems a little high to me...but if you trust that doc then go with it. I'd like to know what kind of stone she has...if you wouldn't mind posting up about it. 

Best of luck! I'm sure all will go just fine with her, but keep us posted!


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## CavePaws

I'm sorry to hear, I hope she will recover quickly!


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## catahoulamom

I cannot even express how relieved I am it is a stone and not a tumor, obviously right after seeing the blood and calling the vet I jumped on the internet and read about how it could be a tumor. We just lost our 17 yr old rottie/chowchow CJ last November due to cancer... the whole family is (understandably) extremely sensitive to any health issues with the 4-leggers. 

The price seemed a bit high to me too, that is how much it cost us to remove CJ's eye, and to me that seems like a more indepth procedure (it was also done at another vet). This is Miami though, everything is pretty expensive here. :/ I'm not very keen on having somebody other than our usual vet/surgeon operating on Podie (I didn't even want to take her to another vet), but for somebody I have only known an hour and a half, he seems like an incredibly educated and confident vet, and made me feel very comfortable. He's removing the stone by laser, I'm not sure if our regular vet has that technology available to him. 

Oh, believe me, I will let you know ALL the details. I'm going to be posting her blood results as soon as I can scan them, too! They were great! 

Thanks for all of the reassurance, I feel much better than I did two hours ago. Just gotta get over the emotional part about leaving her at the vet and having her stay there alone overnight. :/ Do you think it be just as safe for me to bring her home and crate her? I'm not planning on it, just wondering if it would be better, since we would actually be there with her to monitor her.


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## catahoulamom

I'm sure they are going to want to put her on Urinary SO Royal Canin after the surgery as a preventative. I saw it in the clinic. Is this something I should consider for a short term period, to keep any other stones from forming? Or would you switch right back to PMR? I would really rather NOT put her on that food, unless it is necessary. I feel like raw would be better, especially because of all the water in the meat, but I also know that the Royal Canin is medicated to prevent stones from forming. What do you guys think? What would you do?


ETA: Holy crap!!! I just looked up the ingredients... 
RICE, GROUND CORN, CHICKEN FAT, CHICKEN MEAL, CORN GLUTEN MEAL, NATURAL FLAVORS, DRIED EGG POWDER, SODIUM CHLORIDE, CELLULOSE POWDER, POTASSIUM CHLORIDE, DICALCIUM PHOSPHATE, CHOLINE CHLORIDE, CALCIUM CARBONATE, CALCIUM SULFATE, TAURINE*, VITAMINS [DL-ALPHA TOCOPHEROL ACETATE (SOURCE OF VITAMIN E), BIOTIN, D-CALCIUM PANTOTHENATE, NIACIN, PYRIDOXINE HYDROCHLORIDE (VITAMIN B6), VITAMIN A ACETATE, VITAMIN D3 SUPPLEMENT, THIAMINEE MONONITRATE (VITAMIN B1), VITAMIN B12 SUPPLEMENT, RIBOFLAVIN (VITAMIN B2), FOLIC ACID], TRACE MINERALS [ZINC OXIDE, FERROUS SULFATE, COPPER SULFATE, MANGANOUS OXIDE, SODIUM SELENITE, CALCIUM IODATE], PRESERVED WITH NATURAL MIXED TOCOPHEROLS, ROSEMARY EXTRACT, AND CITRIC ACID. 

Crude Protein, Min: 13.2%
Crude Fat, Min: 13.2%
Crude Fiber, Max: 4.5%
Moisture, Max: 10.5%

WHAAT?! I can't fathom putting my carnivore on this almost vegetarian diet!!!!


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## RawFedDogs

If it were my dog, I'd stay on PMR. I would even instruct them not to feed her anything while she is at the vet's office. Depending on how long her stay is, I'd take her some RMB's to feed her.


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## xellil

I'm so glad it's a stone - I know today will be a long one for you, but it will be ever soon.

It seems like feeding her a bunch of corn when she's not used to it wouldn't be so great for her digestion. And maybe they won't even recommend it, hopefully.


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## Khan

Glad to hear it's only a stone. We are sending lots of good Bully Mojo your way.
It will be interesting to see what they recommend for her recovery.


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## DaneMama

It depends completely on what type of stones she's forming. Sometimes it has nothing to do with diet and is a genetic problem, but even so you may need to alter her diet accordingly. There's an avid PMR feeder on here that has to do a modified BARF diet for one of her dogs because he forms urate stones due to a genetic disease. Once you find out what stones are there we can better formulate what would best suite her. But all that being said I wouldn't switch to an RX diet.


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## catahoulamom

RawFedDogs said:


> If it were my dog, I'd stay on PMR. I would even instruct them not to feed her anything while she is at the vet's office. Depending on how long her stay is, I'd take her some RMB's to feed her.


They do want to keep her overnight, just to keep her still and ensure she doesn't pop any sutures. I would much rather keep her on PMR, it doesn't make sense to me to switch her to a carbohydrate filled dry food diet for bladder stones. I would rather have her on a preventative medication and feed her PMR than give her that medicated food. I need to do more research and see if dogs with bladder stone history are prone to forming more. They are going to keep her overnight tonight (I am going to ask the vet if it would be the same if we took her home and kenneled her for recovery, so at least she would be monitored since there is nobody in the office overnight) but I am going to ask that they dont feed her. They did give her a can of RX cat food last night as a "treat". :/


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## catahoulamom

xellil said:


> I'm so glad it's a stone - I know today will be a long one for you, but it will be ever soon.
> 
> It seems like feeding her a bunch of corn when she's not used to it wouldn't be so great for her digestion. And maybe they won't even recommend it, hopefully.


I hope not! But I'm expecting it. I just don't want her to get any more stones and have to go through this again. :'( I've never had a dog that had stones before. I didn't even know she had one because she's been acting completely normal.


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## catahoulamom

Khan said:


> Glad to hear it's only a stone. We are sending lots of good Bully Mojo your way.
> It will be interesting to see what they recommend for her recovery.


Thanks Khan  I will keep you all updated! I'm wondering if they blast the stones with the laser, or if he actually takes it out? If so I'd really like to see it. Either way I will let you guys know all the details!


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## catahoulamom

DaneMama said:


> It depends completely on what type of stones she's forming. Sometimes it has nothing to do with diet and is a genetic problem, but even so you may need to alter her diet accordingly. There's an avid PMR feeder on here that has to do a modified BARF diet for one of her dogs because he forms urate stones due to a genetic disease. Once you find out what stones are there we can better formulate what would best suite her. But all that being said I wouldn't switch to an RX diet.


Sarah, with Duncan right? I need to go back and read her old threads about why a modified BARF is better than PMR for dogs prone to forming urate stones. We did the BARF diet before we discovered PMR, if I have to go back to pureeing veggies for her, I will. 

He did tell me there are two kinds of stones, one that is smooth, and one that is more abbraisive with an almost spikey outside to it. Apparently hers is the latter, which is why he could even feel it crumble when he felt for it, and that is why it is causing so much blood (it is literally scratching in her bladder, poor mamasita). I'm interested in learning more details on the kind of stone after the surgery. 

It's good to know there are other options to switching her to an RX diet. I know that some people would think I'm crazy for not just buying the RX food and feeding it to her for the rest of her life like the vet suggests, but I have seen Rogue on kibble and Rogue on raw. She is a different dog when she eats a species appropriate diet.

OK - so my mom and I called our regular vet, to ask them their opinion as our trusted vets (of YEARS, they've operated on all of our animals). As much as I like the vet we saw last night, we are both a little apprehensive of just handing her over to him without getting our regular vet's opinion (and a quote for surgery from them, too, especially since $900 did seem high). They said to bring her in, that this is not a life threatening situation where she needs to be operated immediately. We are going with our gut feeling, and also want to make sure that we arent getting over charged. We spoke to the vet that had scheduled the surgery for today and he completely understood, he said that they will probably question why he didn't take xrays - he said he didn't need to because he could feel it. Maybe it would be better to take xrays, to ensure there isn't more than one stone?


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## luvMyBRT

So sorry to hear your dog has stones! I hope she does well with the surgery and recovers quickly. :hug:

Yes, it is very important to find out exactly what type of stone, as each one will have it's own set of things you need to do to help prevent them. 

Read through this: When is Prey Model Raw NOT ideal? | Prey Model Raw


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## DaneMama

It's also important to do xrays to find out just how many stones there are because I will tell you from experience that it's sometimes tricky finding them in the bladder. If the doc knows there are three stones exactly they know when to stop digging for them once they've found the 3 stones. I will note that sometimes the type of stones produced are more like tiny pieces of sand that are impossible to count on radiographs. It's also important to do xrays to make sure there aren't any stones that have passed into the urethra (although it doesn't sound like this is an issue).


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## xellil

Glad you are doing that.

It seems very odd that a vet would say nothing about x-rays and then when another vet is incuded say "they may question...."

not that that necessarily means anything bad, but it would sure raise my radar.


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## chowder

Chelsy had bladder surgery 3 years ago because she was peeing blood. They did the xrays and found her bladder was filled with sand. She spent the night and it was about $1500 total (including the xrays, blood work, etc). When I told them that she couldn't eat their 'special food', they said it was okay and gave me some DL-methiodine tablets that were suppose to keep her urine ph down. 

I never gave them to her. I just changed her diet (she was eating a kibble that was recalled) and she never had a problem again until this weeks UTI. This time it's probably caused by her back and nerve damage and not food related. 

Good luck to your dog! Chelsy was 11 years old when she had it done and bounced back just fine.


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## xellil

chowder said:


> Chelsy had bladder surgery 3 years ago because she was peeing blood. They did the xrays and found her bladder was filled with sand. She spent the night and it was about $1500 total (including the xrays, blood work, etc). When I told them that she couldn't eat their 'special food', they said it was okay and gave me some DL-methiodine tablets that were suppose to keep her urine ph down.
> 
> I never gave them to her. I just changed her diet (she was eating a kibble that was recalled) and she never had a problem again until this weeks UTI. This time it's probably caused by her back and nerve damage and not food related.
> 
> Good luck to your dog! Chelsy was 11 years old when she had it done and bounced back just fine.


you think the food caused the sand? Ouch. Chelsy is a gutsy little survivor, that's for sure!


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## luvMyBRT

Also, if they are urate bladder stones they *will not* show up on an x-ray. An ultrasound must be done.


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## chowder

xellil said:


> you think the food caused the sand? Ouch. Chelsy is a gutsy little survivor, that's for sure!


She was eating Natural Balance Venison and Rice which was one of the foods recalled for having Chinese Melamine in it. They said at the time that it would only cause kidney problems, not bladder......BUT she had gone 11 years without a single UTI and only developed this when I switched her to that food. Once I got rid of all that food, she never had a stone or sand again. So......it's a big coincidence and one reason I started researching food so much.


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## xellil

chowder said:


> She was eating Natural Balance Venison and Rice which was one of the foods recalled for having Chinese Melamine in it. They said at the time that it would only cause kidney problems, not bladder......BUT she had gone 11 years without a single UTI and only developed this when I switched her to that food. Once I got rid of all that food, she never had a stone or sand again. So......it's a big coincidence and one reason I started researching food so much.


The melamine was what did it for me, too. I of course didn't go raw back then, but I switched to a food, Premium Edge, that supposedly didn't import any ingredients from China. yes, I think that timing was really coincidental for it not to be the food.


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## catahoulamom

Wow, you guys are great. Thank you for all of your input!! Can't tell you how much I appreciate it.

So, we took her to our regular vet, he felt her bladder, took an x-ray, and did a urinalysis. Turns out, she *DOES NOT NEED SURGERY.* He said that she has the one type of stones that you can dissolve using antibiotics and a RX food (sigh -Royal Canin Urinary SO), that they can do surgery to remove them, but it is not neccessary. This surprised me because when I saw the xray, poor little girl's bladder is literally FULL!!!!! of LARGE stones. It broke my heart and made me feel like a neglectful owner, how could this have gone unnoticed? She hasn't had any symptoms of anything, she's been acting completely normal until two days ago, when she started peeing more frequently.

The good news: He does not blame the diet at all. He says the stones were secondary to a mild bladder infection. The bacteria from the bladder infection got trapped, and created stones because her urine was too alkaline (not acidic enough to kill the bacteria). 

Bad news: She will have to be on a RX diet for 8-12 weeks along with an antibiotic while the stones are dissolving. As dissatisfied as I am with that, knowing that it is only temporary, I think we can deal with it. She cannot have ANYTHING- no treats, nothing- except that crap kibble, and the cans, for the next couple months. That will not be fun for Po, she lives for food.  

The vet said he doesn't think I need to make any changes to her diet long term once she is off the RX food. I wonder if I could somehow scan the xray and show you guys the picture? It really is unbelievable, you can see the pebbles filling up her bladder. I was surprised when he said that the stones usually dissolve pretty quickly, that the antibiotics and food should take care of it within a couple months.


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## catahoulamom

xellil said:


> Glad you are doing that.
> 
> It seems very odd that a vet would say nothing about x-rays and then when another vet is incuded say "they may question...."
> 
> not that that necessarily means anything bad, but it would sure raise my radar.


I agree. I cannot tell you how happy I am that I went with my gut feeling and canceled the surgery and took her to her appointment with our regular vet. He told me that they could perform surgery, but it is invasive, and you always have the chance with complications, anaesthesia, etc, plus the stress on the dog. He said that if it were his dog, he would not do the surgery, just put her on the RX food and antibiotics for a couple of months. We go back in 4 weeks to take another xray, to make sure they are dissolving nicely, and then again 4 weeks after that. He said that within 12 weeks MAX, she will have passed all of the stones (they will have dissolved small enough to fit through the urethra. Apparently it's a completely different story with male dogs, as the urethra is much more narrow).


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## 3Musketeers

Well its good she doesn't need surgery . But prescription diet, eww =/, wonder if there's any way around that...

I also find it funny that the first vet tells you how great your dog looks without questioning PMR and yet sells Royal Canin? Eww


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## xellil

Wow. That is a HUGE difference in treatment recommendations. Huge. So glad you didn't just decide to do what the first vet told you.


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## luvMyBRT

Since you can actually see the stones on an x-ray then they are not urate bladder stones.

Did you find out what type of stones they are? I am sure there is something other than the Rx Diet....I also know that urine pH will also play a huge role in dissolving the stones.


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## Ania's Mommy

Is getting the ingredient/medication that is in the RC food a possibility? That way, you could still feed her regular diet AND dissolve the stones.

Also, when she passes the stones, will it hurt?:Cry:

So happy to hear that surgery isn't necessary! Your vet sounds like one of the good ones.


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## chowder

In Chelsy's case from several years ago, they just gave me a prescription for the DL Methionine to lower her urine pH and keep any more stones from forming since I would not put her on the special food. Maybe it would be possible for them to just give you the medicine to dissolve the stones and keep her on her original food? 

I told them that Chelsy was allergic to the ingredients in the prescription diet food so they didn't have any problem just giving me the medicine.


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## catahoulamom

Just looked up what they are called: Struvite Bladder Stones. Canine Struvite Bladder Stones

Ania, I've thought of that. I need to figure out what it is in the diet that helps to dissolve the stones. I think another thing is that the food is specifically "balanced" to keep the urine pH at a certain level. It says how only this diet must be fed until the stone is dissolved, but I don't quite understand why? The low protein? Fat content? Salt, what? It just says it helps to dilute and dissolve the stones. I need to do more research.

Doc said they should dissolve and pass without issue, the discomfort should decrease as they continue the treatment. He said to expect to see a little pink in her urine from time to time, it's just part of dissolving the stones. 

If anybody has ANY advice or information as far as alternative to the RX diet goes... please, should it my way. I'm kind of at a loss, I want the best for her but I don't want to interfere in any way with the treatment.


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## catahoulamom

chowder said:


> In Chelsy's case from several years ago, they just gave me a prescription for the DL Methionine to lower her urine pH and keep any more stones from forming since I would not put her on the special food. Maybe it would be possible for them to just give you the medicine to dissolve the stones and keep her on her original forming
> 
> I told them that Chelsy was allergic to the ingredients in the prescription diet food so they didn't have any problem just giving me the medicine.


DL Methionine could be an alternative to the prescription diet? I am calling the Dr tomorrow to ask him about that!! Thanks!


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## chowder

This is the ingredient list for the Royal Canin Urinary Diet

RICE, GROUND CORN, CHICKEN FAT, CHICKEN MEAL, CORN GLUTEN MEAL, NATURAL FLAVORS, DRIED EGG POWDER, SODIUM CHLORIDE, CELLULOSE POWDER, POTASSIUM CHLORIDE, DICALCIUM PHOSPHATE, CHOLINE CHLORIDE, CALCIUM CARBONATE, CALCIUM SULFATE, TAURINE*, VITAMINS [DL-ALPHA TOCOPHEROL ACETATE (SOURCE OF VITAMIN E), BIOTIN, D-CALCIUM PANTOTHENATE, NIACIN, PYRIDOXINE HYDROCHLORIDE (VITAMIN B6), VITAMIN A ACETATE, VITAMIN D3 SUPPLEMENT, THIAMINEE MONONITRATE (VITAMIN B1), VITAMIN B12 SUPPLEMENT, RIBOFLAVIN (VITAMIN B2), FOLIC ACID], TRACE MINERALS [ZINC OXIDE, FERROUS SULFATE, COPPER SULFATE, MANGANOUS OXIDE, SODIUM SELENITE, CALCIUM IODATE], PRESERVED WITH NATURAL MIXED TOCOPHEROLS, ROSEMARY EXTRACT, AND CITRIC ACID. 

According to their website, it is for "intermittant or supplemental feeding only and increases the urine volume which helps prevent stones from forming." I know that the potassium chloride added is a salt, but I'm not sure what other ingredients in it are suppose to dissolve stones or stop them from forming. I would probably talk to my vet and ask him specifically what was in that food that was going to work on the stones. Then maybe you can just add that ingredient to your regular diet. 

In Chelsy's case, I wouldn't give her the corn, rice or corn gluten that is in that food, so that was when he suggested an alternative medicine. Each case is different so talking to the vet is the best idea.


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