# Lunging at Other Dogs on Leash



## chowder (Sep 7, 2008)

I know we've discussed this topic, and I know 'intellectually' what to do to train for this problem, but it's just not working well with Shade.

When we take walks and he see's another dog either walking or in it's yard, he'll automatically lunge to the end of his leash. If the other dog is acting all crazy and barking and lunging back, then Shade goes absolutely crazy and growls and lunges and almost drags me down. He is getting worse the longer I own him and the more attached he gets to me and Rocky. 

I usually grab his collar, force him into a sit, and make him do a 'watch momma'. Once I get his attention that way, he is all mine and ignores the other dog. He stares at me intently until he calms down and then gets his treat. Then we walk calmly on like nothing happened. (short term memory on that dog!) Its just that first few minutes when he totally loses control and I almost lose control of him. 

Meanwhile Rocky is just standing there nonchalantly watching all of this like we both are nuts hwell:

Shade is actually really good with little dogs and puppies and plays with them very well. It's just big dogs or aggressive little dogs on leashes that set him off and make him temporarily lose his mind. We went on a walk this weekend and it was a little schnauzer that set him off because it was lunging at it's leash at Shade while it's owner walked by. Of course, Shade looked like the bad dog because he's huge and was growling and making all kinds of noise and could have eaten that dog in one bite! 

It's gotten to the point that I have to always watch out around me or he will suddenly take off and pull me off my feet if I don't see the dog first. I'm not quite sure what to do about it since I am never sure when or where we are going to encounter other dogs when we are out walking. We don't live in an urban area so sometimes we don't see another dog at all and sometimes we'll see two or three. 

Would a special collar or harness help with a dog like him?


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## Maxy24 (Mar 5, 2011)

Ideally you would be able to anticipate his reaction by either seeing the dog first or seeing Shade's body language start to change, are you able to do this? If so I would immediately get his attention before he starts to react (it would be helpful to train something like a hand touch or teach a word that means look at me or follow me if he doesn't already know something like that) and energetically run away from the dog he sees so that he is far enough to be in a calm state. Then either have him focus on you and walk by, or play "look at that" as you walk by. I personally prefer LAT because it allows the dog to keep an eye on what worries him (the other dog) as opposed to forcing him to look at you alone where he can't be aware of the scary thing behind him which could increase his paranoia. It also is rewarding the dog for seeing the scary thing and remaining calm as opposed to just rewarding for looking at you, so it allows for the dog to perhaps change his view of barking snarling dogs to see them as potential for reward, not horrifying beasts that must be eliminated.

If you are not familiar with LAT (used by Leslie Mcdevitt in her book control unleashed but used VERY widely by trainers and "dog people"...you can google it and get lots of results) it is basically rewarding the dog for EVERY glance towards the dog (or whatever they are scared of). It should begin the moment your dog notices the other dog and only end when you know there is no longer a risk that your dog will react. So if you are coming near a yard with a dog you need to watch Shade and as soon as his head turns in the dog's direction click (or use a marker word) and give a treat. Continue walking and rewarding every time he looks at the dog, this should prevent Shade from reacting while also reinforcing calm behavior and changing his feelings about barking dogs in their yards. He'll start looking at them and then back at you anticipating a treat, his outlook on them is different now, they are potential for reward. You'll want to teach your dog what the clicker or marker word means before using it in this context so you can be sure it gets his attention right away. If a reaction does occur walk your dog away until he is far enough to be calm and then try again, being sure you are very fast in rewarding the dog for glancing at the other dog.


As far as collars/harnesses go, if you have trouble physically controlling shade during reactions then a head collar or a no pull harness would likely help. I prefer the no pull harness as head collars require you to desensitize the dog to it before use otherwise it will increase the dog's stress level and make a reaction more likely. Most dogs adjust to a harness just fine. However the head collar likely gives you more control. My dog is fear aggressive with strangers and I like using his no pull harness in situations where he might react because it allows me to turn him when he reacts. If he barks and I go to walk him away it immediately turns him in my direction, away from the stranger so we can walk away, he can't really fight it. On a regular collar or harness he struggles toward the person resulting in lots of dragging and continued reaction. But do remember reactions should be avoided as much as possible. Neither of these devices trains the dog, they simply allow you to better control the dog so training is easier and safer.

I do not recommend a prong or choke chain (prongs are becoming very popular). These would function by punishing the dog for reacting, as well as increasing control as the dog would not pull as hard if it causes him pain to do. However they do not make the dog feel better about the other dog (he is still frightened and agitated) and can in fact increase aggression as the dog learns to associate the sight of the dog with the pain of the collar and it increases his fear and anxiety. I would also worry about it causing redirected aggression towards you or especially towards your other dogs as he really wants to go after the barking dog but is inhibited by fear of neck pain, so looses control and goes after whoever it near. So I'd avoid punishment.


If you have a lot of trouble noticing other dogs before he goes nutso then things get much harder. I would try walking him away until he is far enough to be calm, and then do LAT from there.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Couldn't have said it better than Maxy24...great advice!


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## CavePaws (Jan 25, 2011)

Maxy has it down! Keep us updated on how Shade is doing!  Remember to keep your cool. I know it is so hard to do when you feel like you arw losing control; but Shade knows if you are amped up and nervous. It isn't that he can just "sense" your energy, but he can literally smell the change in your body chemistry.


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## chowder (Sep 7, 2008)

Maxy24 said:


> Ideally you would be able to anticipate his reaction by either seeing the dog first or seeing Shade's body language start to change, are you able to do this?
> 
> If you are not familiar with LAT (used by Leslie Mcdevitt in her book control unleashed but used VERY widely by trainers and "dog people"...you can google it and get lots of results)
> 
> ...


If I see a dog approaching us on a leash, then I can anticipate his reaction. The problem is that we may go for walks several days in a row without meeting any dogs. 

That book is already on my Christmas list, but I will google the information about it ahead of time. 

Yes, Shade is a very strong dog and when he lunges on his leash it takes most of my strength just to control him. The rescue place sent him to me with regular harness that they had trained him on, and I switched him to a martingale type collar, hoping that would help with controlling his walking but still keeping it from slipping over his fat neck like a regular collar. He no longer pulls constantly like he did with the harness on, but once he starts the lunging, he literally comes off his front feet and pulls like he is doing a weight pulling competition. 

I guess the best thing for me to do would be to take Shade by himself to a place where I know there are going to be other dogs and practice this with him. I'll have to drive him somewhere and leave Rocky behind but if I do it on the weekends, maybe I can find a park or something with lots of people and other dogs. Rocky will be pissed off but he'll survive. Shade is a smart boy and I think he will catch on pretty quick if I try this. He's not acting like it is a fear issue, much more like it is a protection / domination thing that is just getting stronger and stronger. When we were staying at my inlaws house this weekend he actually started humping Rocky for the first time ever and playing much more aggressively. There was chow fur all over the backyard and Rocky squealed once. I think that was a reaction to being in a new house and claiming the new backyard as 'his' territory. 

I'll read up on it this week (in between studying for exams!) and start working with him.


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## Maxy24 (Mar 5, 2011)

I had that worry too with Tucker, that there as no way to get enough practice. It's not like we had new people coming over every week that I could work with him on, but even the occasional guest has made a difference, but you do see a much larger one if you have three new people in one week or something like that, he gets used to the process and really starts making connections and generalizations.

If you do decide to take him somewhere with other dogs make sure there is plenty of space to keep him far away from the dog's until it's time to start training (and to remove him to if he reacts), you don't want to accidentally end up in a situation where he's guaranteed to react. Also make sure there are no off leash dogs that might run up to you, not only will it result in a regression in training but may end up in some serious injuries. Make sure the place is not too crowded or it could increase his stress, and keep the visit short, you don't want the whole experience to turn out negatively because you pushed your luck, the training process should really be low stress for both of you because you should avoid any reactions.


I have an easy walk harness (another good brand is the halti). These clip in front, on the dog's chest, so that they cannot get good leverage when they pull, it forces them to turn around towards you. There are other types, like the sporn, that function differently I believe by tightening and making walking harder (or less comfortable, not entirely sure) but I do not think those would be most helpful here, a harness that actually turns the dog away from the other dog would be more useful, especially for a lunging dog. If he puts that much force into his lunge it'll turn him right around.

I still consider protective behavior somewhat fear related, not life and death type fear, but fear of loosing a resource or fear for your (the owner) safety, he still has negative emotions that can be changed through positive association. My dog is not the brightest bulb at all and he caught on to LAT very fast, so I'm sure it'll work great for Shade! Just be sure not to force things and never under reward, if you try to push your luck and wait longer between treats you can cause a reaction which sets the whole process back a bit, so take it slow, every time you get through an LAT session with no reactions you have made great progress.

With dogs walking by on leash, if it's easier take him off to the side and stand still for the LAT session, it can be hard to juggle LAT while still walking, but for going by a yard with a dog in it that's necessary.


Another book you might check out is called "click to calm" by Emma Parsons, it deals specifically with aggression, especially dog-dog aggression.

Good luck and keep us updated!


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## CavePaws (Jan 25, 2011)

Make sure the place you take him first is not too stressful. If he is even a tiny bit too anxious he wont learn anything positive. Beyond a certain threshhold of anxiety dogs completely and utterly lack the ability to learn a new, calmer, more positive behavior to replace the fight or flight response. The same goes for people but generally speaking the average person will have a stronger tolerance to stressful situations. I would not consider taking him anywhere near a dog park with wild play going on, right now. Modifying a behavior like lunging at the end of a leash is usually much harder than teaching basic obedience like sit or stay because of the social aspects involved. It is fairly natural for animals to exhibit a fight or flight response when they are experiencing a certain level of stress. Most dogs with barrier aggression, if not on leash, will either run away or approach the other dog(s) showing calming signals of some sort. On leash a dog is not free to act completely naturally as it would unrestrained; thus we improve the chance the dog will go into fight mode. So in conclusion, what I am really saying is to break this down into __b__a__b__y__ steps. You must teach him that a dog on leash and controlled at a great distance is not stressful before you teach him a pack of off leash dogs playing loud and rough is okay and perhaps rewarding. Good luck!


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## eternalstudent (Jul 22, 2010)

I am a big fan of simple head control type leads. Personally I used a rope slip lead figure-of-eight around the neck and muzzle. This way if the dog pulls they get a tightening on the muzzle which is unpleasant. I used it when my pup was young and pulled like a locomotive and it stopped her very quickly.

I would say two things though. When on it give you a very obedient dog not a trained dog 
and two: Never use it for corrections, tugs jerks etc. 

To transition of the head control I used a log rope lead clipped on to a harness and used the other end as the head control this way she could walk normally but if she pulled I just had to hold on.

Maxy and the others are right with the training, but this might help on those day to day walks )

(ps if that does not make sense at all let me know and I will take some pics of the pup with the gear on)


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## chowder (Sep 7, 2008)

*Update*

We've been working really hard on this for the last week and Shade has gotten really good at ignoring dogs that are in their yards now. There are two in our neighborhood, one on an 'invisible fence' and one in a fenced yard and he just glances at them and keeps walking now.

His new 'Easy Walk' harness arrived today so I got it all adjusted and just got back from a walk with him. It worked FANTASTIC!! I may kid about Shade being a bit of a dim bulb, but he really is a smart boy and caught on to that harness immediately. He stepped out of the house and saw a squirrel before we even stepped off the porch. He took off after the squirrel on pure instinct and the harness spun him around and totally surprised him without me being taken off my feet or having my shoulder pulled out of the socket.

From that point on in the walk, he was the perfect gentleman! We went through a whole bait bag of treats while I praised him so he wouldn't hate the harness, but he walked perfectly, sniffed his spots and pee'd but stayed close to me, and never tried to wander all over the place and pull me like he usually does. 

On a side note, I ordered a size large harness because he is about 90 pounds and really big chested and I have it adjusted almost as small as it will go. If he loses weight like he should, I may have to get him a smaller size harness but they were on sale for $15 at Amazon so it would be well worth it. 

Thanks for all the advice everyone!! I have the LAT book on my Christmas list still!


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## Maxy24 (Mar 5, 2011)

I'm SOOOOOO glad to hear things are going well, keep it up! Lucky deal on that harness too, they can be pricey for sure, but they are fantastic tools for many dogs.


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