# Now What??????????



## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

Well, back to the vet we went, she upchucked everything even some food from the nite before came up, so my thought was that there was something still going on from her previous vet visit. They did blood work per my request and a fecal per their request. They couldn't otherwise find anything too unusual, the next day they called with the results. Her blood work was good, phosphorous a little high but fine, but her fecal revealed she had giardia, she had it as a puppy with lots of diarrhea, we had no indication of giardia with her being on a raw diet and the hard poop. They said because it has been an extremely wet/snow winter, I walk my dogs at public areas, and because they are constant smellers. I don't take them to off leash
parks, but Cayenne goes to daycre once a week. Leo's poop was taken in next so am waiting for those results today.


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## Doc (Jan 17, 2009)

Make sure they check to see if her small intestine has retracted into her large intestine causing blockage. Especially if she is lethargic and not eating. It can be very serious/deadly.


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

:Yes, my first thought when I saw some of the dinner food from the nite before was a blockage, so far there are no signs of that. They say giardia untreated can cause the stomach upset and thus the upchuck, her brothers fecal came back positive also, so he's being treated as well. Darn those dogs


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## EnglishBullTerriers (Sep 10, 2008)

I am sorry that they are going through all of this! I hope that they get to feeling better soon.


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## Doc (Jan 17, 2009)

I would use Panacur for the Giardia. That antibiotic they usually give out is only about 60% effective (it starts with a M) and my dogs always throw up if they take it. Pancur is really good - 3 to 5 days and its over. My pup had giardia and it turn into a blockage and required surgery to remove a foot of intestine because of blockage - it all stemmed from giardia/diarrhea which lead to the small intestine retracting into the large. Panacur stopped the giardia.


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

Now, the only Panacur I'm familiar with is for horses, where do I find Panacur for dogs, I haven't seen any at the pet shops I've been to.


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## Doc (Jan 17, 2009)

I think it is labeled as SafeGuard for dogs - just check the active ingredient. I'm sure your vet can supply it - but you may have to request it. I can look up rates if you need me too. It is highly effective on Giardia in dogs. 

I would treat your dog with it especially if he/she has been diagnosed with Giardia and then do a stool sample a month later and test specifically for Giardia.

Let me know if you need any more information.


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## EnglishBullTerriers (Sep 10, 2008)

whiteleo said:


> Now, the only Panacur I'm familiar with is for horses, where do I find Panacur for dogs, I haven't seen any at the pet shops I've been to.


I have also used the horse panacur for my dogs, only don't give the full syringe. There should be a section that says how to give smaller doses. It is all the same and it only depends on wether you want to give a horse paste or a dog powder. Just make sure that you give the right amount to the dogs if you use the horse panacur. Your dogs should be big enough to give just under the smallest dose ( I think that it starts at 100 pounds). A little over will not hurt them, just don't give the full 100# dose! Good luck with all of this!


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

I'll tell you, we just got back from 4 days at the beach, took the dogs so they wouldn't have to go to the kennel, they are still on the metronidazole, and that upsets their stomachs so bad that they didn't want to eat anything. I was in constant contact with my vet, we got pepcid and started giving them that before the metronidazole and now that we are home they are finally back to normal. That stuff is nasty, I will pick up the panacur tomorrow, so the kids can be more comfortable.


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## STPFAN (Feb 5, 2009)

Treatment:There are several options of treatment , some with two- or three-day protocols and others needing seven-to-10 days to complete the job. Flagyl (Metronidazole) is an old stand-by treatment for bacterial infestations that cause diarrhea and is about 60-70 percent effective in curing giardiasis. However, Flagyl has potentially serious side-effects in some animals, including vomiting, anorexia, liver toxicity, and some neurological signs, and it cannot be used in pregnant dogs. In a recent study, Panacur (Fenbendazole), which is approved for use in treating dogs with roundworm, hookworm, and whipworm, has been shown to be effective in treating canine giardiasis. Panacur is safe to use in puppies at least six weeks of age.


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

Hey guys, thanks for the helpful info on the panacur/safeguard, I'm really going to give my vet a talking to. They (everyone at clinic) all know how sensitive that my female is 
especially when it comes to her gastro intestinal system that they should have given me the option.


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## chowder (Sep 7, 2008)

I just read all the posts on this subject and found it really interesting because I had two chow puppies given metranidazole. One was for coccidia and one was diarhea from an unknown source. Both reacted badly to it and one puppy ending up dying several weeks later from "bloat" and neurological problems but no one ever mentioned it could be related to the medicine. Luckily I took the second puppy off the medicine as soon as he got sick on the first pill. Thanks for all the posts on the subject. I think I will toss out the leftover bottles I have and start looking for a new vet.


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## Doc (Jan 17, 2009)

I will never give any of my dogs metranidazole. It is horrible and not effective. For giardia it's Panacur for me and for Coccidia it's Albon. My vet doesn't even try to give metranidazole to my dogs anymore. I wish they would take the stuff off the market.

I would look at Lambert Vet supply and keep both of these in my house!


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## chowder (Sep 7, 2008)

It's interesting that it's not even FDA approved for use in dogs. I wonder if they would use it so often if they had to inform clients before they hand it out that they are being given a drug that is not FDA approved for use in dogs. I know that I was never told that before they gave it to both my dogs. I've been trying to do more and more research and go more and more "all natural" with my dogs as far as medicine, flea treatments, and vaccines go. The vet now wants to routinely worm my dogs every 6 months even if they don't find any worms because the CDC recommends it and that is just one more poison to put into their bodies. It's no wonder so many of my previous dogs died from "cancer" over the last 30 years. They were pumped full of chemicals and trashy dog food that the vets recommended! (and I worked for vets for half my life so I believed them!)


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## Doc (Jan 17, 2009)

If you are medicating for heartworms (which is one of the few routine meds I do use) then worms should not be a problem. Interceptor controls HW and most of the common worms.

I also treat monthly for fleas and ticks but only in the spring-fall. I would probably opt out of the DAP yearly booster. Rabies is required by law - I'm in North Carolina.

I do stool samples for giardia and coccidia when I see the pack having runny stools.


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## chowder (Sep 7, 2008)

I'm also in NC....(watching the Canes play now!). I prefer to use Interceptor for HW but the new vet I started with a year ago that gave me the metranidazole doesn't sell it so I have been making her write me a prescrirption for it. I haven't had a flea problem in years but we do have major tick problems, usually more on me then on the dogs. I try to check the dogs daily for them and only treat them with Frontline if I absolutely have to. Most of the vets here have gone to a 3 year vaccine for DAP and just push the Bordatella and Lepto on you all the time. From what I read, I can probably assume my 12 year old dog doesn't need any more vaccines except Rabies from now on. My puppy will need a booster but after that I may just get him a titer test and not yearly vaccines. I have lost dogs at ages 8,9,10, 10, and 12 from cancer and none of them were related (some were in born in different states even), so you have to wonder if the theories about over-vaccinations and medications are something to consider.


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## Doc (Jan 17, 2009)

I'm not sure Lepto is needed. I'm in Lexington and my vets don't give Lepto anymore.

i do worry about ticks - one my pups - who lives in Raleigh - got Lymes disease last fall. 

I do think the quality of fed has a great deal of impact on a dogs overall health and the over vaccination contributes to their decline - is my opinion.


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## EnglishBullTerriers (Sep 10, 2008)

I do not like the vaccinations that I am always told that my dogs and my horse 'HAVE' to get. They do more harm then good. I worked for a company that did the research for some of these places that produce the vaccines. I would know a little better then the next person, but I do NOT clam to know it all!
I do not like the side effects of most of those things!


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