# High Phosphorus Levels in Wild Ocean - Canine Caviar



## tdc (Nov 21, 2012)

It is my understanding that High Phosporus Levels in pet food are Not Good...!??


So 10/22/13... 16-days ago, I emailed Canine Caviar, with this:

The phosphorus on the Wild Ocean is 1.7% minimum. I am wondering how CC can claim that their foods meet AAFCO nutrient profile guidelines with a phosphorus value higher than the allowable limit. The AAFCO max is 1.6%. On the Wild Ocean feeding page it does say it meets AAFCO guidelines. Very confusing since that is not possible. 

After 7-days and no response on it, I emailed them, again letting them know I was still waiting for an answer. 6-days later.... On 11/4/13, I get this response [Why would it take so long for an answer... which I am "Still" waiting for??]:

*************


I am checking with our nutritionist who is traveling. I am hoping for an update soon.

Thank you for your patience.

Julie

Julie Campbell
Canine Caviar Pet Foods, Inc
4131 Tigris Way
Riverside, Ca 92503
Phone 714-223-1800
Fax 714-223-1801
[email protected]
www.caninecaviar.com

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## tdc (Nov 21, 2012)

I emailed them, again, today and they responded right away..... ?!?!

With This:

The phosphorus level is 1 10th of a percent above the AAFCO guideline and is in a safe range. As our kibble is 91%-93% digestible, dogs will not be consuming as much Canine Caviar as they would other formulas. This keeps the actually ingested amount of phosphorus well below the AAFCO guideline.


Any Thoughts From Anybody??


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## bett (Mar 15, 2012)

yeah, don't use it. it could be a problem, i believe, having to do with a dog who gets crystals.

their customer service leaves much to be desired, which is important to me.


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## tdc (Nov 21, 2012)

No Doubt!!

1.6% is the AAFCO's Maximum for Phosphorus...
My bag of Wild Ocean says Phosphorus is 1.7% Minimum... that is 1 10th of a percent Above the AAFCO's Maximum. 
If 1.7% is the "Minimum", then Lord only knows what the "Maximum" in the bag of Wild Ocean is.
Not only does it Meet AAFCO guidelines, but it Exceeds it's Maximum, which does not sound good to someone who had a dog pass with Kidney issues.

There are tons of other foods out there that are just as easily digestible with a phosphorus level well below the AAFCO's Maximum.


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## Savage Destiny (Mar 16, 2011)

What is the calcium level of the food? With a proper calcium to phosphorus ratio, the slightly higher phosphorus wouldn't be an issue unless the dog has kidney issues.


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## tdc (Nov 21, 2012)

Savage Destiny said:


> What is the calcium level of the food? With a proper calcium to phosphorus ratio, the slightly higher phosphorus wouldn't be an issue unless the dog has kidney issues.


Calcium is on the high end also at 2.4%
2.5% is the Maximum AAFCO....


so what does that mean?


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## FarminaND (May 23, 2013)

We don't know this brand but when you seen numbers like that for calcium and phosphorous you should be very concerned. Kidney disease is silent until close to all kidney function is lost. Numbers like that are a sign of very poor ingredient quality. This food is 31% protein so not even that high.

Also, as you stated the AAFCO maximum is 1.60% but that is on a dry matter basis, so the real limit as you would see on the bag is about 1.45% depending on the moisture content of the food.

Our Herring grain free is 37% protein (95% animal protein) and has minimum phosphorous of .95% and tests below 1%.

Ciao


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## Jace (Oct 3, 2012)

Maybe what she is saying here is being said in a round about way.... Any foods that are greater than 4000 kcal/ kg the calculation is determined by using a calculation that determines grams per 1000 kcals, as this presumes dogs will eat less food. If this is the case the maximum allowable is 4.6 grams per 1000 kcals. Do they have added sources of Phos in the food, as opposed to naturally occurring in the meal? I am not too concerned with Phos levels until there is an issue, and I do geriatric panels regularly, Reducing Phos does not spare kidneys, and because I have an oxalate stone former I prefer higher calcium levels, so Phos must follow. 
This way of feeding I agree seems backwards to what is normally done, however higher levels of calcium in the diet, the less oxalate is absorbed.
I am not sure how you would compare a product that is using "meal" as a first ingredient, to "meat" as a first ingredient, in terms of ash, or any other mineral. It would also depend on how much of the overall ingredient is used in each recipe or formulation.


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