# Need a little help



## Huginn (Nov 21, 2011)

So, I have had Huginn since Saturday afternoon at 3ish. I fed him 4.1oz of skinless, fat removed chicken back (prepped by Abi for me) around 7:15 or so. He didn't have a bowel movement at all and I wasn't very worried about that. Around 11 he was acting hungry again, so I offered another back and he finished that one, shortly after he had a really soft bowel movement. I wasn't worried, guessed it was what I have dubbed "plane tummy." We went to bed around 2am, and he slept until 8am, I took him out and no bowel movement. I just let it go. After our vet appointment (he met his vet and got a microchip; he ways 12.2 pounds) he had a stool that was soft at first and then liquid, with a little mucous and some spots of blood. Abi, who was luckily with me said it was normal and his GI track getting used to things. I expected it to begin to firm up after that and it hasn't, in fact it has gotten worse. He has had nothing, but liquid poo since then. 
So, on Saturday he had about a half a pound (8oz) in two meals. Yesterday he had 3/4 of a pound (12oz) and three meals. Today he has only had one meal so far of about 1/4lb (4oz). 
Am I feeding him too much? He eats the whole amount and seems to continue to be hungry (he keeps picking up things outside that look like kibble), but I am worried about his digestive system and am slightly concerned about giardia. I am probably being overworried furmom, but I want to be careful. 
Also, another quick thing is he pees a lot. I know that is normal for puppies, but it seems like every fifteen minutes or so. I will take him outside and let him run around and play with him for about 15 min and he will pee, then I bring him in when he starts waiting at the stairs, and if i am not looking he will pee again. We were staying with my boyfriend for the weekend (we go home today) and his roommate's doxie pees on the floor all of the time, ugh, but he kinda goes where she has stained the carpet only, does it seem like this could be why?
Thanks in advance for any help.


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

HI, Congratulations on the new baby. When you went to the vet did they run a fecal? Giardia has been going around in this area so I would consider that but he may also have an infection with the frequent urination. Those two things are what I would work on first. If you want some holistic ideas please P.M. but it would be nice to know if that fecal was clear. He also may just need a little tummy soothing and some broth and slippery elm might be the ticket if that is the problem. It is good you have Abi to help especially as you have siblings. Well, if you would like some homepathics and have a little more direction to go in let me know I would love to help. He may also just be a little more sensitive. Try not to worry too much


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

Tiff, Ill be watching this....I hope its just nerves and a little stress!:smile:

Ill also add that as of this morning Keeva's stool is nice and firm....and she is only peeing about ever 2 hours or so.

Just as a side note!:wink:


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## Huginn (Nov 21, 2011)

They didn't run a fecal, I was surprised as they usually do. I think they were wanting me to come back in a week and get one done and just gave me some dewormer (that I haven't used). I was a little worried about how frequently he was urinating, its been a long time since I have had a puppy so I wasn't sure if that was normal. I think I will take him in for a fecal exam, and possibly a urinary exam. I am definitely interested in knowing some homeopathic things I can do. I hope he moves on from this quickly.

Hmmm, ya Keeva seems to be transitioning to her new life much better than Huginn.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

you could do yourself a favour by taking a fecal in to test for giardia, though it doesn't always show in the first test....just don't let them put the puppy on pannacur.

on your way home from the vet, stop at super supplements and pick up some slippery elm bark capsules.....and put some on his food....it'll help the stomach and intestines, by lining them. 

serve the slippery elm with chicken broth....

then, back off the feeding by 1/2 ounce per meal....go slowly...

the other thing you can think about doing is divvying the meals up to three feedings a day than two....little meals...

at the very least....back off the feeding size...those backs, if they're like the ones i had can be broken in half or even cut with a scissors....

do that for a day or two. it's just possible that you got the dog whose stomach doesn't like airplane rides. you know how boys are


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## Huginn (Nov 21, 2011)

magicre said:


> you could do yourself a favour by taking a fecal in to test for giardia, though it doesn't always show in the first test....just don't let them put the puppy on pannacur.
> 
> on your way home from the vet, stop at super supplements and pick up some slippery elm bark capsules.....and put some on his food....it'll help the stomach and intestines, by lining them.
> 
> ...


Thanks, I will try cutting the meals down to smaller portions for him and see how he does. I will be trying the broth as well. I hope it's just airplane rides that he doesn't like and I will definitely be getting a giardia test.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

i don't know....i don't think he has giardia, although you never know...

all this just goes to show you that two different dogs, even ones from the same litter.....can react to raw differently...

he'll get through it....and you will too....

take some of those backs and put them into water and make the boy some broth. definitely add in some salt, not much, because you want him to stay hydrated and salt will allow him to keep the fluid inside rather than coming out the other end as quickly as it goes in.

slippery elm bark can be bought in many ways. we just buy the capsules....i don't know how much to give a pup, but my put weighs 22 lbs and we give him one....capsule.

i would imagine you can break into the capsule and give him some in the broth between meals.

smaller meals means less to digest all at once. pretty soon he'll catch up with keeva and then he'll out eat her, out run her and out do her. she has mean momma who wishes snow away


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Fecal check is priority IMO. Giardia is a problem as well as coccidia, which this sounds like it could be one or the other or both. 

Urinalysis is also important. Get that checked for blood or white blood cells...both of which indicate infection. 

Cut meals down in size as already mentioned....


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## Huginn (Nov 21, 2011)

I wasn't able to make it to the vet today, just way to hectic of a day. But am going to make an appointment to take him in tomorrow to have a fecal and urinalysis done. I was stuck in the car on my drive home (from Seattle-ish to Spokane) for a lot longer than I wanted and didn't want to upset his tummy more than it already was so he ended up getting fasted (mostly) for his lunch meal. I had some dehydrated chicken breast and gave him some of that in the car, just to hold him over (probably more for my own peace of mind than his tummy grumbles). When we got home I reduced the size of his meal to 3.5 oz, and that was mostly bone, I currently am working on some stock/broth. I'm in luck because the super supplements is right around the area of the vet so it will be a good trip for us. He had a BM of not solid, but definitely not liquid about 15 minutes after he ate, which I would assume was this morning's food along with the treats. It was better than yesterdays and this mornings for sure, but I am still taking him in as I am overparanoid about these things, especially after working in a clinic for six months. As of right now he is doing really well, it seems like he can at least hold it and he hasn't peed in the house yet. 
Anyway, I will update tomorrow after the appointment. Thank you everyone for the advice. I will be picking up the slippery elm tomorrow along with a few other things Liz suggested.


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## barneysmom2510 (Oct 12, 2011)

That is exactly how barney's poop was and he ended up testing positive for giardia. He was on kibble at the time that is when I made the switch to taw. Within a few days of being on strictly chicken backs his poop firmed right up. I only fed him backs for a few weeks his diarrhea never returned but I took everything super slow with him. My brother's puppy had giardia and he is kibble fed he had issues with diarrhea for months on and off . FWIW if they offer you flagyl I would go with slippery elm instead. I read about flagyl so I only gace barney a few doses I tried to warn my brother about it but he continued to give it to his puppy on and off about 4 seperate times. He ended up almost dying as a result of toxicity from the flagyl. Not saying it happens in every case but just be careful.


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

Huginn said:


> I wasn't able to make it to the vet today, just way to hectic of a day. But am going to make an appointment to take him in tomorrow to have a fecal and urinalysis done. I was stuck in the car on my drive home (from Seattle-ish to Spokane) for a lot longer than I wanted and didn't want to upset his tummy more than it already was so he ended up getting fasted (mostly) for his lunch meal. I had some dehydrated chicken breast and gave him some of that in the car, just to hold him over (probably more for my own peace of mind than his tummy grumbles). When we got home I reduced the size of his meal to 3.5 oz, and that was mostly bone, I currently am working on some stock/broth. I'm in luck because the super supplements is right around the area of the vet so it will be a good trip for us. He had a BM of not solid, but definitely not liquid about 15 minutes after he ate, which I would assume was this morning's food along with the treats. It was better than yesterdays and this mornings for sure, but I am still taking him in as I am overparanoid about these things, especially after working in a clinic for six months. As of right now he is doing really well, it seems like he can at least hold it and he hasn't peed in the house yet.
> Anyway, I will update tomorrow after the appointment. Thank you everyone for the advice. I will be picking up the slippery elm tomorrow along with a few other things Liz suggested.


Im so glad you guys got home safely!!

Wish we could have seen you both again, but with him not feeling that great house might have been a wee bit over whelming!:tonguee1:

Let me know how it goes at the vet's and how he does later on!

If I end up getting them and you need some and cant find any other there I can meet you in Eburg(if the weather allows) at some point and bring you more backs!! :thumb:


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

soft is better than liquid, but do take a sample in, if you can get urine and stool....even without the dog, just for testing sake....

ruling out giardia or coccidia is a good idea especially with our rainy icky winters...although it is SNOWING here right now.

yay.


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## Huginn (Nov 21, 2011)

Oh yes, we are going in today. I won't be taking anything they give me, I just want test results. I really hope it is not giardia. He seems to be feeling better this morning, had a firm stool finally. Although it was really dark and had some blood in it, but it is an improvement.


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

Hey Natalie, I sent you a message on facebook(I dont have your phone number on my new phone)....Tiffany has some questions.
And she will probably be coming into your clinic this evening!:wink:


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## Huginn (Nov 21, 2011)

Just an update, the vet appointment is delayed because I refuse to bring him to the one I originally called. They wanted to do xrays to check for a blockage since he wasn't vomitting. I thought that it sounded strange (all the dogs I have seen with a blockage are horribly uncomfortable) and I knew right away I didn't want to bring him in cuz they would chastise me to no end for feeding raw, I am not good at handling things like that so it's a no go. Luckily, Abi contacted Natalie for me and we are dropping off a fecal and urine sample tonight for the test and then he will go in tomorrow at the clinic she works at. 
I am really hoping he is just having a rough time adjusting to everything and there is nothing to worry about.


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

Huggin,

Travel is very stressful for some pups. I have one who would not be phased for one second and another who would struggle to readjust. I think taking in a sample and checking is a great starting point. Feed just a little and make sure he is well hydrated. If in doubt offer broth or pedialyte. Unless he has something he should start bouncing back soon. Boys can be a little sensitive. My girls are way, way tougher than my boys. LOL


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

I will keep you all posted on lab results! All aside I'm looking forward to meeting this little fella!!! Woop!


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## Huginn (Nov 21, 2011)

Alright, finally back from my long day. He seems to have finally settled. I have given him (homemade) broth with two of his meals, he loves it. This morning and this afternoon's stools were finally solid. Natalie ran a urinalysis for me and he's clear! A fecal was sent out to get checked just in case, but I am not as worried as I was yesterday. Now, I just have to start bell training the bugger to get him to quit peeing in the house lol. I am so very relieved.


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

Huginn said:


> Alright, finally back from my long day. He seems to have finally settled. I have given him (homemade) broth with two of his meals, he loves it. This morning and this afternoon's stools were finally solid. Natalie ran a urinalysis for me and he's clear! A fecal was sent out to get checked just in case, but I am not as worried as I was yesterday. Now, I just have to start bell training the bugger to get him to quit peeing in the house lol. I am so very relieved.


Tiffany Im so happy for you!!!:hug:
Im so excited to hear how he is doing as he gets better and better!!!:biggrin:


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Huginn said:


> Alright, finally back from my long day. He seems to have finally settled. I have given him (homemade) broth with two of his meals, he loves it. This morning and this afternoon's stools were finally solid. Natalie ran a urinalysis for me and he's clear! A fecal was sent out to get checked just in case, but I am not as worried as I was yesterday. Now, I just have to start bell training the bugger to get him to quit peeing in the house lol. I am so very relieved.


Huginn is ADORABLE!!! 

Urine is clear, which is good. You've just got a pee'r on your hands!!! 

Fecal will come back tomorrow, but that stool sample was a nicely formed poo. So, I think the handsome little devil is on the mend :thumb:


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## Huginn (Nov 21, 2011)

DaneMama said:


> Huginn is ADORABLE!!!
> 
> Urine is clear, which is good. You've just got a pee'r on your hands!!!
> 
> Fecal will come back tomorrow, but that stool sample was a nicely formed poo. So, I think the handsome little devil is on the mend :thumb:


Thanks, I think he is quite adorable myself. Ya, pretty sure he is just a peeing machine, he has peed sooooo many times since I got home. I am glad you were here to help me, thank you so much.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

that's wonderful news.

we took ours out every fifteen minutes and then stretched the time as we could.

i also would put a leash on the puppy or bubba and leash him to me...so he'd always be in sight. 

also, belly bands are a miracle.


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## Huginn (Nov 21, 2011)

Ya, I am thinking that I am going to start leashing him when we are in the house, until he gets control of it and possibly some belly bands. 
The fecal came back positive for giardia . . . I am pretty bummed, but his stools are firming up. So, I am hoping for a speedy recovery.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

he'll be fine....either herbal remedies or a run of pannacur and he'll be right as rain. 

i'm just glad you know the reason now.....i'm guessing abi will be treating keeva too, since they're from the same litter....and maybe got it before they were shipped....'course, who knows?


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## Huginn (Nov 21, 2011)

It's nice to know the reason. We went ahead with metronidazole, after this clears up I will be likely be using herbal remedies for all future worm treatment. I told Abi about it so that she can get Keeva tested, as well as emailed the breeder to let her know.


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## Huginn (Nov 21, 2011)

So, we have a set back. Huginn's stools are back to water. I skipped the broth for one meal today, I ran out, and his next movement was straight liquid, so I have more broth in the making. The concerning part to me is that the liquid was very green, it looked like alfalfa pellet mush, I cannot think of a single reason why. Any ideas? Should I be concerned? He doesn't seem to be bothered, he acts like he is starving and was trying to climb the stove to get broth. He got three small meals today of chicken backs that weighed 3.5oz for breakfast and lunch, I upped it to 3.7oz of dinner since his stool in the middle of the night was good and the one before dinner. Should I not have upped it? I guessed it would be ok because his stools were solid, tuesday afternoon, wednesday and today and I felt like 10.5oz was not enough food for a 12.5lb puppy who seems to be always hungry. . . I hope it isnt my fault. . .


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

It could very well have been the combined effect of increasing the amount, the fact that he's still on medications (which will alter the actual progress he's making on raw) and the fact that you ran out of broth. 

I would skip his next meal, feed a smaller than normal sized meal after that and feed a normal sized dinner. Then keep truckin' along at the 3.5oz meal size until he's COMPLETELY done with medications, AND has 7 days STRAIGHT of normal stools. Once you've reached that point then you can start increasing meal sizes. 

Some cases of giardia can be pretty damn nasty....


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

natalie's right. giardia can be pretty nasty.

when malia had it, her poops were like nothing i saw.

' Bile that is secreted in the first part of the small intestine is actually green. As stool is digested and passed through the large intestine it is turned into a darker brown color.

If stool is still green by the time it is excreted, it could mean that it went through the large intestine too fast to be changed in color.'

and that doesn't mean it's not healthy.

huginn is on the metro drug....i can never remember the whole name. malia was on pannacur. so was bubba since they live together. both had funky stools.


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## Huginn (Nov 21, 2011)

Alright, sounds like a plan. I didn't realize that 0.2oz could make such a big difference, guess I should have thought a little more before I did it.

I had never seen dog poo look like that before so I was worried, it looked like horse poo soaked in water. . . Good to know it's not something to worry about. . . I've never had to deal with this before, so not only am I new to raw, but I am new to treating giardia. I seem to have the best luck, I really hope this clears up soon.


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## stajbs (Jun 5, 2010)

Re is correct on the green stool thing, and the whole digestive process. Many moons ago, back in the early/mid 90's we had a sibe with giardia,was a nasty case too, and she had the green stool. Fortunately at the time she was our only dog. Then about 3 years ago when all dogs were by then on grain free dog food Blaze developed a gastric issue...to this day we are not 100% sure what started it, but he began having green stools. Several fecals came back negative, and he was first on metronidazole, then switched to sulfasalazine. When the issue developed the vet suggested chicken or turkey and rice. So we did that, and still had green poops. Switched to turkey and brown rice and it came out greenish and the brown rice looked like bird seed in his stool. I said the heck with this and switched to turkey and sweet potatoes(yams). No more green stool and at long last off the sulfasalazine, and no more grains ever for him. I should never have tried the rice and meat mixture with the meds, should have gone immediately to yams, pumpkin or something similar. To this day he gets his meat, a tablespoon of moderately cooked veggie variety, and a flat tablespoon of yams. He is the one I am scared to death to feed raw. We just introduced rabbit to his meat variety last week and it went fine, but it took me a while to work up to it. So now he can eat turkey, chicken, venison, and rabbit. 

Things will smooth out with the advice from these folks on how much and what to feed, and once you get that nasty giardia under control. So sorry you have had to go through this with your new baby.


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## Huginn (Nov 21, 2011)

Thanks for the encouragement, this giardia is stressing me out. I feel bad for his poor tummy.

Score one for the sweet potato super food! That sounds like you had a tough time with your boy.


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