# Ruckus back, getting worse



## ruckusluvr (Oct 28, 2009)

yet the vets dont seem worried!
Ruckus had back problems a couple of years ago. hurt himself doing agilty, compressed two disk and they pinch a nerve. he has rimadyl but rarely needed it. actually i havent used it in over a year.

these past few months he has gotten worse, and i hate giving him the rimadyl. isnt it dangerous? could a chiropractor maybe help this.
Surgery isnt an option because of financial reasons. id sell the house and the cars... everything to fix him... but hubby doesnt feel the same way.
so i am looking at treating it with meds, or chiropractor.

please watch this video! Ruckus is black.
you can even see his body language, he is not a happy camper.
these episodes like this last about 5 minutes and happen weekly, sometimes twice.
is it some sort of spazam? limps, holds up a front leg, then a back, walks crooked...

heres the video
YouTube - Ruckus back problems. SAD

its dark, sorry


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## wags (Jan 31, 2009)

http://www.srdogs.com/Pages/rimadyl.ade.steps.html 

Rimadyl FAQ - Rimadyl For Dogs - Side Effects, Overdose And Dosage Of Rimadyl - Carprofen For Dogs 

Side Effects of Rimadyl - More Information - Rimadyl Can Cause Death - Dog Health Report - Dog Care - Dog Health Problems Sol.. 

Roxi who has arthritis in her back leg hip connection the ball of the leg is on tramadol which she is doing really well on . But this can get pricey as I know the rimadyl is more pricey even. I would take Ruckus to the vet and find out what options you can go with other than rimadyl if you are not happy with the product. They have so many options out there now. It was so sad watching that video. poor little thing! Roxi takes the tramadol which has helped her be herself as she usually was and takes's fish oil from Sam's club, and glucosimine chondrotin with MSM, from Sam's club. my other dog takes recover sa from Smart Pak because she hates pills! But hopefully you will find something quick that works for you and Ruckus. I have had the dogs on shark cartilage pills also from vitamin world but do not do this anymore!


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Yikes...he looks to be in a lot of discomfort and confusion. He does exhibit neurological deficits that are probably caused by the compression of the discs. I think he'd be a good candidate for surgery. Is there anyway that you could do a payment plan with your vet?

If not, I think there is a lot that you could do for him to help alleviate his condition. 

1. I'm not trying to sound rude or anything but it does look to me like he is overweight. I know that he is a long haired, furry breed but it does seem like he is carrying a bit extra around. Which might be to blame for him exhibiting more of these symptoms for the first time in a year. I would try and keep him as lean as possible and if anything *slightly* underweight. There is absolutely no harm in having a dog that is considered a bit skinny especially if it will help his back out a lot. Of course if he truly isn't overweight at the moment, keep him thin and disregard this :wink:

2. I would take him to a canine acupuncturist. One that actually did the training course and has the "degree" in it. A lot of people will say that they are acupuncturists for dogs but don't have the knowledge to back it up. This may or may not help him at all, but I think its worth a shot.

3. To prevent him from getting worse arthritis in his back I would start him on adequan shots at the vet. Its a once a month shot that helps keep existing joints from degenerating more with time and wear and tear. I have seen a lot of dogs do really well on this regimen. 

4. I like metacam more than rimadyl for pain management. I know that no NSAID is really ideal, but there has to be a way to keep his pain under control. Metacam is a great drug and I feel that I see better results with it, not to mention it *can* be cheaper for a smaller dog than rimadyl. I personally would provide a drug like this, even rimadyl, if there was no other way to keep my dog as comfortable as possible.

Hope you find something to make your boy more comfortable! Keep me posted...


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## Three-Little-Pitties (Sep 27, 2010)

Hi - I saw your question while I was looking over this forum deciding whether to join or not. If I never post another thing here, I had to answer your post. Please do not let your dog have Rimadyl. The toxic effect of this drug on kidneys and liver is horrible. One class action suit was settled some years ago but another is pending.

As for treatment for your baby )-: I watched the video, I agree with whoever posted acupuncture. A chiropractor may also help. Which ever you choose, ask questions and get referrals from other patients owners since there are good and not so good practitioners in every field. And understand one acupuncture treatment could fix everything or it could take several treatments. I depends on how deep the real trouble lies.

If you have any questions for me, I checked that I can be emailed when I signed up for this forum in case I don't make it back here for awhile. I can also suggest a few awesome books. I believe its likely your dog can be cured without surgery. 

From one dog lover to another, good luck!


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## ruckusluvr (Oct 28, 2009)

danemama08 said:


> Yikes...he looks to be in a lot of discomfort and confusion. He does exhibit neurological deficits that are probably caused by the compression of the discs. I think he'd be a good candidate for surgery. Is there anyway that you could do a payment plan with your vet?
> 
> If not, I think there is a lot that you could do for him to help alleviate his condition.
> 
> ...


danemamma, its all fur, the vet actually said he was a tad underweight but it was fine because of his back and his activity level. he has lost weight since the beginning actually. 

thanks for the other tips. i will schedule a visit with me vet and have a serious talk.
but what can i do for him right now? i am out of rimadyl, the vet will not see us today. 
i have an appointment on Friday, but thats sooo far away 

**edit** he might look overweight because his back is very very arched.


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## ruckusluvr (Oct 28, 2009)

Three-Little-Pitties said:


> Hi - I saw your question while I was looking over this forum deciding whether to join or not. If I never post another thing here, I had to answer your post. Please do not let your dog have Rimadyl. The toxic effect of this drug on kidneys and liver is horrible. One class action suit was settled some years ago but another is pending.
> 
> As for treatment for your baby )-: I watched the video, I agree with whoever posted acupuncture. A chiropractor may also help. Which ever you choose, ask questions and get referrals from other patients owners since there are good and not so good practitioners in every field. And understand one acupuncture treatment could fix everything or it could take several treatments. I depends on how deep the real trouble lies.
> 
> ...


thank you 
surgery is not an option because my vet doesnt do payment plans at all. i have to find another route.

my poor boy. im so upset. this dog has been through hell

he is aggressive (will strait up BITE somone) he is cow hocked, back problems, skin allergies (allergic to grass!) and food allergies.
*sigh*


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Find another vet that will take payment plans?


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## NatureLover (Sep 28, 2010)

I agree with Natalie about his weight. Vets don't know what the appropriate weight is for dogs because they see overweight dogs all day long. He should have a concave waistline that is visible no matter how much fur he has. If you're not already feeding appropriately (some rendition of BARF and/or prey model, minimally), I would do so and I would find a system that will allow him to lose weight (I can help you with this).

I would opt for a non-toxic pain management method like acupuncture, and only if the above doesn't result in immediate improvement. The drugs will cover up the pain and make him more likely to move when he would otherwise be still. So it may cause further mechanical damage, and will further toxify his body to boot. Even acupuncture will do that, only without the toxins, because all it does is disrupt the pain signal as it travels along the nerve. (It does not accelerate healing, like its practitioners are always claiming.) So you want to make sure you've done everything possible to remove the cause (it's likely that the cause is not entirely due to the injury, but may be degenerative) before you just start managing his pain.


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## ruckusluvr (Oct 28, 2009)

guys, ruckus is skin and bones and fur...
i can feel all his ribs and his spine. he is UNDER weight. and has a very visible waist line and a nice tuck up. i have been accused of not feeding this dog. so i got that covered 

he has his chiropractor appointment Friday morning.


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## NatureLover (Sep 28, 2010)

He looks thick through the middle in the video but the lighting is not the greatest so if you insist he's not, we can only take your word. Whether he's over or under weight, however, it still may be the case that the original injury is not the problem. The evidence would suggest this, since you've had a long period when the injury wasn't bothering him. A less than optimal diet can cause a previously injured area to degenerate sooner that the rest of the body, in a way similar to what happens when an area of the body is said to be "predisposed" to disease by genetics. Genetics or the injury don't directly cause the problem, they only determine where in the body the degeneration will happen if the underlying causes of disease are present. The only way to determine for sure is to look at what you've been feeding. If it is degenerative, a chiropractic adjustment won't help, although it may make him more comfortable in the short term. Do you feed raw?


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

ruckusluvr said:


> guys, ruckus is skin and bones and fur...
> i can feel all his ribs and his spine. he is UNDER weight. and has a very visible waist line and a nice tuck up. i have been accused of not feeding this dog. so i got that covered
> 
> he has his chiropractor appointment Friday morning.


my friend uses chiropracty for her dog, jake....he looks like a gigunda furry bear but he's gsd and g'd knows what else....he also looks heavy but, like yours, it's fur and underneath all that, you can feel ribs and such...hard to see that tuck and concave on dogs that are wearing such a heavy winter jacket LOL

she has seen some great results from chiropracty....actually, it's her chiropracter...and whilst i don't care for them personally, he's done such an excellent job on jake, the big ole hairy beastie.....that jake's life is so much more improved....jake suffers from back problems and arthritis...in his joints....and he's old

let us know how it goes and good luck to you. i know how it feels to watch a dog in pain or discomfort.


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## ruckusluvr (Oct 28, 2009)

ruckus eats homecooked, taste of the wild, blue buffalo, Artimis fresh mix, or Fromm


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## NatureLover (Sep 28, 2010)

That's the cause of his disease, not the injury. A chiropractor can't help with this.


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## ruckusluvr (Oct 28, 2009)

you kidding me!!! LOL

he hurt his back doing agility on the weave poles, and hasnt been right since.
he was BORN with some of his disc too close together. he is a puppy mill dog who is cow hocked and all sorts of other structural problems.
and you blame the kibble?
what planet are you from?

he re injured his back playing with the flirt pole.

for those of you who actually care....
Ruckus chiropractor appointment went well. he was in dire need of an adjustment. they chiropractor said that L1 L2 and L3 all seem affected.
but he doesnt think it is THAT bad. i am suppose to bring him weekly for a month and then once a month or as needed. and try to keep him from jumping.
i was thrilled to know that he can still go on long hikes with me! i was so worried about that. he cant carry his own back pack anymore, but thats a small price to pay.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

ruckusluvr said:


> you kidding me!!! LOL
> 
> he hurt his back doing agility on the weave poles, and hasnt been right since.
> he was BORN with some of his disc too close together. he is a puppy mill dog who is cow hocked and all sorts of other structural problems.
> ...


oh, i'm glad it helped. my girlfriend regularly takes her jake to her chiropractor.....she gets hers. and he gets his. he's going on 13 now....has had back problems all of his life...he's the size of a baby bear....and was in excruciating pain....not so anymore...they thought they were going to have to put him down at the age of eight.....

so i'm glad for ruckus, glad for you....and neat that he can go on long hikes with you..i know you love him so....


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## NatureLover (Sep 28, 2010)

As I mentioned previously, chiropractic adjustments may offer short term relief. The problems will return, however, unless you give the dog's body what it needs in order to heal itself. If the body is so busy eliminating, storing and otherwise dealing with the indigestible ingredients in commercial foods, it will not have the resources left over to attend to the healing. I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but here on planet Earth organisms have certain biological requirements that, when unfulfilled, cause the body to not be able to heal properly. 

Although easy and convenient, it is a mistake to keep blaming the injury or genetics. If you radically improve his diet and the problems still exist, then -- and only then -- will you know that the injury or congenital factors are entirely to blame. Until then, you have an unexplored area that potentially holds the key to your dog's lifelong relief from suffering. Considering that the potential pay-off is so great, a reasonable person might deem it worth at least experimenting with. Appropriate feeding is not hard, and it is not expensive. When it's done properly, it's cheaper than kibble. I can help you, for free, if you'd care to write to email me privately. If you do write, please put something about Ruckus in the subject line so I will recognize you.


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## ruckusluvr (Oct 28, 2009)

blahblahblahblah....
you act like i said im feeding pedigree...

or you are trying to sale something.

go preach to someone else. this is not a thread about what im feeding my dog. this is a thread about his back problems. i didnt ask for someone to criticize what i feed!


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

I'm not on board with everything NatureLover says but I do agree with her about chiropractors. I have known a lot of people who visited chiropractors. Some went 3 times a week, some went every other week, and all in between. They all have one thing in common ... they keep going for more treatments and keep going for more treatments and keep going for still more treatments. None get cured. They all get temporary relief at best.

I also can't argue with the fact that nutrition plays a very important role in healing of any kind.


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## NatureLover (Sep 28, 2010)

RFD,
Since you obviously espouse raw feeding, don't you think that this is an area that should be explored before the owner of a symptomatic kibble-fed dog resigns himself to life-long 'management' of symptoms?


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## NatureLover (Sep 28, 2010)

I’m not selling anything. What I offered will cost you nothing.

I’m a busy person. I have 3 businesses to run, including one that involves getting paid by dog owners to teach them how to feed their dogs so that they stay out of the vet’s office, for life, even if they’re already sick. I offer my help free of charge on a fairly regular basis. It’s good for business. If you like what you learn from me, you’ll tell others, and you’ll invest less money in the veterinary industry. It makes me feel good to deprive vets, in any small way, of that which has made them so powerful. It also makes me feel good to help dogs stop suffering. 

I’m not criticizing you. I used to feed commercial food too. Yes, there are bad and *really* bad commercial foods (there aren’t any good ones) but if a dog is having a problem, that’s what determines whether improvements should be made, not the marketing hype that is written on the label.


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

NatureLover said:


> RFD,
> Since you obviously espouse raw feeding, don't you think that this is an area that should be explored before the owner of a symptomatic kibble-fed dog resigns himself to life-long 'management' of symptoms?


I have seen many physical problems go away after switching to a raw diet. However, these were diseases and infections and organs that didn't seem to work very well. In this case we are talking about an injury and I'm not a sold on that. I do know that a raw diet will help strenghen the immune system which would help heal the dog but again, in this case, I'm not sure the immune system can help. There are no "invaders" for the immune system to attack. 

I also don't think a chiropractor can do any more than temporary help.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

RawFedDogs said:


> I have seen many physical problems go away after switching to a raw diet. However, these were diseases and infections and organs that didn't seem to work very well. In this case we are talking about an injury and I'm not a sold on that. I do know that a raw diet will help strenghen the immune system which would help heal the dog but again, in this case, I'm not sure the immune system can help. There are no "invaders" for the immune system to attack.
> 
> I also don't think a chiropractor can do any more than temporary help.


i agree with you, RFD....but a vertebral injury that is congenital?

sure, raw can make the immune system stronger, so it can fight disease whilst it is handling an assault on the dog's body.....

and i guess in that case, yes, that would be a reason to try raw.

but ruckus' mom has emphatically said no....nature lover...and she's pretty vocal about what she will and won't do.

if a chiropractor offers temporary relief, it's certainly better than putting the dog on tramadol or another drug....

i just wish ruckus had access to a swimming pool and an acupuncturist....


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## wags (Jan 31, 2009)

magicre said:


> if a chiropractor offers temporary relief, it's certainly better than putting the dog on tramadol or another drug....
> 
> ..


Whats wrong with Tramadol? My dog(chocolate Lab Roxi) has been on it for a while and has had no adverse reactions (yeah) nothing has gone wrong she goes in every 6 months for blood tests and has been doing really great!She is now on 4 pills a day down from the 6 she was on. two in the morning two in the evening. I have read about the drug and have really no regrets useing it. My cousin who has diabetes even uses it! 



Tramadol


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

wags said:


> Whats wrong with Tramadol? My dog(chocolate Lab Roxi) has been on it for a while and has had no adverse reactions (yeah) nothing has gone wrong she goes in every 6 months for blood tests and has been doing really great!She is now on 4 pills a day down from the 6 she was on. two in the morning two in the evening. I have read about the drug and have really no regrets useing it. My cousin who has diabetes even uses it!
> 
> 
> 
> Tramadol


there's nothing wrong with tramadol....if there is no other option....in this case, there is.

i would, for my dogs, explore all options based on their condition, and drugs would be my last choice...but, that's just me.


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## ruckusluvr (Oct 28, 2009)

i dont have access to a swimming pool, but Ruckus does swim about three times a week. we have a nice creek near the house and i just cant keep that boy out of water. he loves to swim.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

ruckusluvr said:


> i dont have access to a swimming pool, but Ruckus does swim about three times a week. we have a nice creek near the house and i just cant keep that boy out of water. he loves to swim.


i'm a city girl...so i think in terms of swimming pools.....a creek is good....

water therapy...especially swimming and walking in water....does a body, especially a back...a whole lot of good.


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## malluver1005 (Nov 15, 2009)

You might want to give laser therapy a shot!!!


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## NatureLover (Sep 28, 2010)

RFD,

The same factors that cause organs to not ‘work very well’ greatly complicate the healing of injuries. Every cell in the body is created from the food that goes in. Dogs can’t make healthy cells out of junk food. Dogs have eaten our cooked, cast off junk for millennia but even that is not long enough to influence adaptation, which takes place over millions of years. The biological needs of dogs were established long before domestication. There are certain foods that fulfill those needs, and if a dog never gets them, ALL the systems and processes in the body will be deleteriously affected. 

In kibble fed dogs, the indigestible ingredients in commercial foods perpetually circulate throughout the body in the bloodstream because most often the body cannot eliminate them fast enough before a new batch comes in the next day. Imagine a pure bloodstream where the blood flows easily when and where it’s supposed to, delivering needed nutrients to the tissues and organs, but also coagulating readily and performing other life-preserving functions should these become necessary, as in the case of an injury. Now imagine a bloodstream full of indigestible, rancid fats and deranged cooked proteins (proteins are rendered almost completely indigestible by cooking), where the cells are so coated with sticky gunk that they can’t function the way the body needs them to. When a dog’s bloodstream is polluted, not only is he going to be more prone to injury in the first place, but he’s also going to have a much more difficult time healing once an injury happens. In many cases, injuries fail to heal completely and there are problems later on, which are assumed to be unpreventable because they seemingly originated with the injury. 

In the case of Ruckus, the information that he was symptom-free for a period is an important clue that tells us the problems he’s experiencing are gradual and degenerative, which means they do not originate from the injury itself but from the failure of the body to heal the injury completely. The only way to prove otherwise would be to switch the dog to an optimal diet and wait for healing to occur. If the symptoms persisted, then we’d know that the only option left was pain management. 

Sometimes injuries happen to healthy dogs, and sometimes they are so severe that the body cannot recover, no matter what the dog is fed. The body has its limits. But in every situation where an injury has happened, we have to make sure that we’re optimally managing the factors that are under our control and which can greatly influence whether or not the body is able to heal. What we feed is one of those.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

I've experienced the healing power of raw. Bailey had a terrible freak accident back in March of this year. She healed incredibly fast and I know that it was due to her peak health because I feed raw. I'm a vet tech and I have seen dogs with minimal wounds compared to what happened to Bailey and they take a lot longer to heal. 

March 4th 2010:










Next day after surgery:










March 27th 2010:










April 23rd 2010 (49 days later):


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

I totally believe that what you feed your dog has everything to do with how your dog will react to injuries, aging, etc. I'm doing an experiment within my club, the club members just don't know it, there are several dogs that are the same age as mine who are kibble fed and as of now have benign tumors on their bodys which are common for bull terriers, but mine don't. 
People want to believe what they see, someone who has not seen a raw fed dog or its benefits but only reads about it has not a clue what the benefits it actually has for their dogs health.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

y'all know i'm a great believer in raw....

i also know there are people who are not believers in raw and the benefits right down to a molecular level....

my friend's dog, jake, is fed raw and still has arthritis. the chiropractor helps him out. it's not invasive ( and let it be known that i am not a supporter of chiropractors at all).

my dogs have not been fed raw since they were pups....i wish they had been, but i doubt if raw would have had any effect on entropion for the pug.

and my ten year old corgi mix has lipomas that come with aging. i was kind of hoping they'd go away....

no matter what...ruckus' mom came and asked a question, and i don't think she signed up for a lecture about raw....


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

I wasn't giving a lecture, just that it is a FACT, that no matter what you feed your dog it does make a difference in its health!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And if I were to suggest any type of therapeutic option it would be swim therapy with a licensed therapist.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

whiteleo said:


> I wasn't giving a lecture, just that it is a FACT, that no matter what you feed your dog it does make a difference in its health!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And if I were to suggest any type of therapeutic option it would be swim therapy with a licensed therapist.


i don't disagree with you at all and perhaps lecture was a bit harsh...sorry about using the wrong word....what we feed ourselves and our dogs makes a huge difference in their health, right down to the molecular level.

i also agree about swim therapy...but if chiropractors are all ruckus has, then at least it's temporary relief....


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