# Freaking out! Advice Needed Please



## IslandPaws4Raw (Sep 7, 2011)

We had a scary episode with Ari yesterday. I have been slightly concerned about him for a little over a week now. He has been "off" in the mornings, nothing specific. His appetite is fine, he just seems a little under the weather - some mornings worse than others. Just doesn't have his normal pep for exercise.......Anyway had them all at the vet on Thursday, no fever, gums fine, vet didn't do any tests. We also didn't do his booster shots for the upcoming trip.

Fast forward to Sat morning, we met at the agility field to do some extra practice and he was just not into it at all......that is not him! :-( so I made him take it easy for the rest of the day, even though he acts perfectly normal in the afternoon. Sunday morning I walked with the dogs rather than running them, then about 10:00 they were both asking for a fetch game. I think I threw the ball for Ari maybe four times when he started staggering around.........Holy SH*T I thought as I ran over to him to keep him still and calm. He didn't fall over, and after about a minute he was fine. 

So tomorrow I'll be taking him in for a full work-up. Full blood panel, snap tests etc. I am praying it is not going to be epilepsy. It would be odd though to have those symptoms for so long before an episode, wouldn't it? I am admittedly pretty ignorant of the condition. He is in the right age range to start presenting symptoms for genetically predisposed dogs, he just turned three by our estimates.

I spoke to the vet this morning- he lives on another island, to let him know what was going on. I also requested he have titers done at the same time, so if Ari is well enough to travel he can without me having to give booster shots if I don't need to. 

Should I request any other specific tests, or just wait and see what the blood tests reveal?


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

That sounds pretty scary! I think full blood work is a good place to start. Maybe X-rays if they are able....please keep us posted!


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## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

Oh no, not Ari. God you must be worried, I'm so sorry this had to happen.
I don't know anything about epilepsy, but it sounds to me like the vet has put you on the right path with the tests you are running there. I don't know what else you can do. Good luck tomorrow, I hope they find something that can be easily fixed. Thinking of you.
Please keep us updated, let us know how it goes.


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## IslandPaws4Raw (Sep 7, 2011)

MollyWoppy said:


> Oh no, not Ari. God you must be worried, I'm so sorry this had to happen.
> I don't know anything about epilepsy, but it sounds to me like the vet has put you on the right path with the tests you are running there. I don't know what else you can do. Good luck tomorrow, I hope they find something that can be easily fixed. Thinking of you.
> Please keep us updated, let us know how it goes.


I am extremely worried....he is my baby. I'm hoping that we can at least find out something with the blood work, not knowing what's wrong with him is just killing me. And I'm just scaring myself thinking the worst possible outcome....Bah!


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## Javadoo (May 23, 2011)

It sounds like EIC to me....Exercise Induced Collapse.
There's no specific medical test for it, but you can have his blood genetically tested to see if he is Affected.


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## rannmiller (Jun 27, 2008)

Almost sounds like a cardiac issue to me. Is heartworm a problem in your area? Has he been on a heartworm preventative? I'd probably ask for chest and abdominal x-rays if I were you, just to make sure it isn't cardiac or any free fluid in the chest or abdominal cavity. Poor Ari, sending healing vibes his way!


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

It sounds similar to our boxer who had dilated cardiomyopathy. Seemed unlike himself, didn't want to exercise as much, had an episode where he was a little shakey and almost stumbled over.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

meggels said:


> It sounds similar to our boxer who had dilated cardiomyopathy. Seemed unlike himself, didn't want to exercise as much, had an episode where he was a little shakey and almost stumbled over.


Yes, I hope they are doing an ultrasound/ECG on him. My Dobie has a small irregularity in his heartbeat so we keep an eye on in in case cardiomyopathy comes along. Tiredness/unwillingness to exercise seems to me like there is a possiblity of some kind of heart condition although of course I really have no idea what I'm talking about since I'm not a vet.


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## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

Any news? Getting anxious not hearing anything, hope like hell everything is ok. :|


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## IslandPaws4Raw (Sep 7, 2011)

rannmiller said:


> Almost sounds like a cardiac issue to me. Is heartworm a problem in your area? Has he been on a heartworm preventative? I'd probably ask for chest and abdominal x-rays if I were you, just to make sure it isn't cardiac or any free fluid in the chest or abdominal cavity. Poor Ari, sending healing vibes his way!


 The Vet seems to think we may have to watch for this even though he is still so young. We do have a major heartworm problem here, so they are on Interceptor year round. We are going to see what the blood test turns up if anything. The next step will be to do an ECG, but that means traveling off island since they don't have the equipment here. 



> MollyWoppy
> 
> Any news? Getting anxious not hearing anything, hope like hell everything is ok. :|


 On the up side, he was actually feeling like himself all day today! It was good to have him nose bumping me for attention, and playing with his sisters.



> Javadoo
> 
> It sounds like EIC to me....Exercise Induced Collapse.
> There's no specific medical test for it, but you can have his blood genetically tested to see if he is Affected.


My sister and I were wondering if this could be a possibility. Is there a special lab that does these tests?

Thanks for the ideas and support everyone, I will update as soon as the test results are in on Thursday. I feel a bit better today since he's feeling better. Hopefully we can find out whats going on quickly so he can get treatment if need be.


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## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

Thanks for the update, was getting a touch worried. Glad to hear he's feeling better, that will take a bit of a load off your mind for now. Mol, Windy and I have crossed all our paws, fingers and legs for good results on Thursday.


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## IslandPaws4Raw (Sep 7, 2011)

meggels said:


> It sounds similar to our boxer who had dilated cardiomyopathy. Seemed unlike himself, didn't want to exercise as much, had an episode where he was a little shakey and almost stumbled over.


I'll have to research this Meggels, thanks. How old was he when he started showing signs? I know they won't all be the same, but your description sums our experience up almost to the T.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

I'm so glad that he's feeling better today...thanks for the update! Sending our positive thoughts your way!!!


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

IslandPaws4Raw said:


> I'll have to research this Meggels, thanks. How old was he when he started showing signs? I know they won't all be the same, but your description sums our experience up almost to the T.




I am NOT trying to scare you, so please don't go "omg" when I write this  It was very very tragic. 

But he was 3.5 or so when he showed signs, and passed away a month later after his diagnosis.  It was quite awful.


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## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

You don't think there's any chance at all that he could have gotten into something? 

I was reading up about the condition that Meggels posted as I'm pretty sure thats what our dog we had when we were kids died of. They say coughing is a symptom, along with abdomen swelling and lack of appetite. Lack of taurine can bring it on in some types of dogs, but I guess the blood tests will show that if it is a problem.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Rebel's cardiologist told me that most dogs develop cardiomyopathy between 2-4 years.


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## IslandPaws4Raw (Sep 7, 2011)

MollyWoppy said:


> You don't think there's any chance at all that he could have gotten into something?


There is always that, even though they are rarely out of my sight. I can't always stop them from licking or eating something they shouldn't. The one thing I worry about the most is the feral cat poop they snatch every now and then-YUKK! Who knows what they could be exposed to with that lovely snack.

I keep having visions of my dogs rolling around in giant sized hamster balls to keep them out of trouble! I think I might be slightly touched :rofl:


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## IslandPaws4Raw (Sep 7, 2011)

meggels said:


> I am NOT trying to scare you, so please don't go "omg" when I write this  It was very very tragic.
> 
> But he was 3.5 or so when he showed signs, and passed away a month later after his diagnosis.  It was quite awful.


I can only imagine how heartbreaking that was for your family 
After I get his results I may just book in to see a vet in West Palm while we are there to get an ultrasound and ECG done. Everyone here that gives a crap about their pets goes to a vet over there when issues are too complex for the vets here to deal with.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

IslandPaws4Raw said:


> I can only imagine how heartbreaking that was for your family
> After I get his results I may just book in to see a vet in West Palm while we are there to get an ultrasound and ECG done. Everyone here that gives a crap about their pets goes to a vet over there when issues are too complex for the vets here to deal with.


I am glad. It never hurts to just make sure. I will keep my fingers crossed that it's nothing so serious as cardiomyopathy or similar.


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## IslandPaws4Raw (Sep 7, 2011)

GRRR! I'm a bit cheezed off this morning. The vet called this morning to tell me that the blood didn't get sent off when it should have, so now I have to wait until tomorrow for the results! I'm hoping the delay doesn't cause a problem with the blood values. 

Sometimes living on an island REALLY SUCKS!


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

IslandPaws4Raw said:


> GRRR! I'm a bit cheezed off this morning. The vet called this morning to tell me that the blood didn't get sent off when it should have, so now I have to wait until tomorrow for the results! I'm hoping the delay doesn't cause a problem with the blood values.
> 
> Sometimes living on an island REALLY SUCKS!


Unfortunately it happens to us all in vet clinics. For one reason or another things don't work out right. 

Don't worry, when sending blood out to the lab they spin whole blood down in serum separator tubes. Just the serum is collected and sent off. Serum can last a LONG time (if frozen it can stay good for years) if properly packaged. Keep us posted...I'm staying closely tuned to your thread....


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## IslandPaws4Raw (Sep 7, 2011)

Here are Ari's blood test results. The vet emailed them to me late this morning. Let me know if you see anything that concerns you, since I don't know how to interpret them myself. His BUN levels are a little high and I know that's from the Raw diet. 

I am concerned about the low platelets, but the vet doesn't seem concerned about it. I've emailed him back asking about this but haven't gotten a response back yet.

* edited * I can't seem to get the pdf attachment to work.......sorry I'll try again, and copy it out if I can't get it to work


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## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

Not that I know what I'm looking at, but I can only get it in unformatted notebook text. Are you able to scan it and attach? 
So the vet didn't come up with anything unusual happening with Ari? Thats a relief, but on the other hand still a little uneasy as his episodes haven't been explained yet.
Mol's bun levels were on the high side too, I'm hoping its because of the raw feeding too. Vet didn't say anything at all so he can't have been concerned either.


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## minnieme (Jul 6, 2011)

I am very fortunate to work at an animal hospital that has its own lab... I too have dealt with the frustrations of sending bloodwork out and the inevitable wait.  It's so hard... particularly when its pressing (and it always is when its your own animal :smile: ). 

Can you attach your lab results a different way? Also, it might be worthwhile to inquire about an ECG....and if it seems like something is going on there, potentially an ECHO.

edit: Just reread and see you mentioned an ECG/ECHO in West Palm -- I think it's worth looking into. Fingers and paws crossed for your sweet baby.. you are in my thoughts!


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Ok, I've edited the attachment you gave us with results below. From what I can see, looks normal for a raw fed dog. Urea Nitrogen is high, but that is normal for dogs fed a nearly protein exclusive diet. As you can see the BUN/Creatinine ratio is on the high end of the range. Thats because the blood urea nitrogen (BUN) is high and creatinine is normal. By checking a urine sample for concentration you can double check that the kidneys are functioning properly. If urine is dilute, then there is evidence that the kidneys aren't working as well as they should. 

So...bloodwork is not necessarily telling us what might be going on. I think doing an ECHO is the best next step to see what is going on. Please keep us posted!!! 




Name: Ari 
Species: Canine 
Breed: Mixed
Age: 3Y
Sex: M

Superchem 
Total Protein 6.3---------5.0-7.4 g/dL 
Albumin 3.1---------2.7-4.4 g/dL 
Globulin 3.2---------1.6-3.6 g/dL 
Albumin/Globulin Ratio 1.0---------0.8-2.0 Ratio 
AST (SGOT) 38----------15-66 U/L 
ALT (SGPT) 27----------12-118 U/L 
Alk Phosphatase 42----------5-131 U/L 
GGTP 5----------1-12 U/L 
Total Bilirubin 0.1----------0.1-0.3 mg/dL 
Urea Nitrogen 32---------6-31 mg/dL * HIGH* 
Creatinine 1.2---------0.5-1.6 mg/dL 
BUN/Creatinine Ratio 27---------4-27 Ratio 
Phosphorus 3.72---------0.5-6.0 mg/dL 
Glucose 75---------70-138 mg/dL 
Calcium 9.7---------8.9-11.4 mg/dL 
Corrected Calcium 10.1 
Magnesium 1.9----------1.5-2.5 mEq/L 
Sodium 146----------139-154 mEq/L 
Potassium 4.3----------3.6-5.5 mEq/L 
Na/K Ratio 34 
Chloride  112----------102-120 mEq/L 
Cholesterol 260----------92-324 mg/dL 
Triglycerides 221----------29-291 mg/dL 
Amylase 740----------290-1125 U/L 
Lipase 322----------77-695 U/L 
CPK 82-----------59-895 U/L 

Comment 
Hemolysis 2+ and Lipemia 1+ No significant interference. 

CBC 
WBC 5.3----------4.0-15.5 103/.L 
RBC 6.90---------4.8-9.3 106/.L 
Hemoglobin 16.8---------12.1-20.3 g/dL 
Hematocrit 54.1%--------36-60 % 
MCV 78-----------58-79 fL 
MCH 24.3----------19-28 pg 
MCHC 31.1----------30-38 g/dL 
Blood Parasites None Seen 

RBC Comment 
RBC Morphology Normal 

Platelet Count 99-----------170-400 103/.L *LOW* 
Platelet count reflects the minimum number due to platelet clumping. 
Platelet EST Adequate 

Neutrophils 2014------------2060-10600 /uL *LOW* 
Bands 0------------0-300 /uL 
Lymphocytes 2756------------690-4500 /uL 
Monocytes 265-----------0-840 /uL 
Eosinophils 265------------0-1200 /uL 
Basophils 0------------0-150 /uL 

Comment 
Blood smear reviewed by technologist.


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## IslandPaws4Raw (Sep 7, 2011)

MollyWoppy said:


> Not that I know what I'm looking at, but I can only get it in unformatted notebook text. Are you able to scan it and attach?


I had to switch the results to text only......the PDF that was emailed to me was too large for the forum to accept. 



> DaneMama
> 
> Ok, I've edited the attachment you gave us with results below. From what I can see, looks normal for a raw fed dog. Urea Nitrogen is high, but that is normal for dogs fed a nearly protein exclusive diet. As you can see the BUN/Creatinine ratio is on the high end of the range. Thats because the blood urea nitrogen (BUN) is high and creatinine is normal. By checking a urine sample for concentration you can double check that the kidneys are functioning properly. If urine is dilute, then there is evidence that the kidneys aren't working as well as they should.
> 
> So...bloodwork is not necessarily telling us what might be going on. I think doing an ECHO is the best next step to see what is going on. Please keep us posted!!!


Thank you for doing that for me. Something has come up that has me traveling to Nassau early next week, so I think I'll carry him along to get the ECG done there. I'm not sure if they have ultrsound equipment or not.....I will be giving them a call when they open this morning.


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