# Sudden attack



## malluver1005 (Nov 15, 2009)

So Aspen did a very bad thing the other day. I was at work when this happened, but my mom told me. He almost bit my brother in the face. Aspen is a very powerful dog and can do some serious damage. None of us understand what provoked him. He's never done anything like this. He loves my 15 year old brother more than me!! He's super protective of him. Anyway, here is the story behind it: 

Aspen was sleeping in the hallway and my dad came down next to him to pet him. When my dad left, my brother came and knelt down next to him to give him a kiss on the cheek. Aspen freaked out and went for his face. My brother was quick enough to escape unharmed. This only lasted about 2 seconds. Aspen immediately left the scene with his head hung low and looking very ashamed of what he had just done. He knew he did something wrong. Aspen is VERY aware of his surroundings at all times, so he definitely knew it was my brother who he tried to bite. None of us understand why he reacted like this? That's why I'm posting this so I could get some ideas as to what could have happened. Thanx


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Sounds like he just startled him. Like he was woken up by your dad and then he was expecting someone else which made him uneasy. 

I will say that it is very "rude" to a dog to be approached head on, like your brother was by kneeling down to kiss him. That's basically coming straight at him face to face which is a threat manuver in the language of dogs. So the combined startle and the approach may have sent Aspen over the edge. Of course this isn't a malicious attack but just a misunderstanding between language barriers. 

I suggest letting your brother know to never approach Aspen face to face or even head on in a direct line. If you watch dogs and how they greet each other it's never face to face unless there's going to be a fight. I highly suggest reading and watching the books/videos below:

On Talking Terms With Dogs: Calming Signals:Amazon:Books

Am I Safe? The Art & Science of Canine Behavior Assessments:Amazon:Movies & TV

The Language of Dogs:Amazon:Movies & TV


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## malluver1005 (Nov 15, 2009)

danemama08 said:


> Sounds like he just startled him. Like he was woken up by your dad and then he was expecting someone else which made him uneasy.
> 
> I will say that it is very "rude" to a dog to be approached head on, like your brother was by kneeling down to kiss him. That's basically coming straight at him face to face which is a threat manuver in the language of dogs. So the combined startle and the approach may have sent Aspen over the edge. Of course this isn't a malicious attack but just a misunderstanding between language barriers.
> 
> ...


Wow!! I did not know that this was a threat to dogs. I've done this to Aspen a few times and he's never even flinched. My brother does it all the time, up until now, and Aspen never cared one bit.


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## stajbs (Jun 5, 2010)

Is there any chance Aspen was startled awake? I've not seen it happen when a dog was startled awake and go after a human, but one of my sibes, did give a sort of abrasion bite when startled awake by a friend's Bichon once. Aurora had been sound asleep off of a tie out in the shade of a tree when the Bichon went bouncing by, and like lightening she was on the little dog. She only gave the dog an abrasiaon kind of wound, no punctures thankfully. Now that could have also been her prey drive because that girl had one for sure. 

To avoid that, and make sure Aspen always knows it is any family member or friend approaching, maybe folks could make sure they speak to him before approaching him whether he's lying down or not. 

Maybe keep an eye on things and just maybe make sure nothing is going on medically. Are there any other subtle changes that you may have observed. Don't mean to worry you in any way, but sometimes a sudden behavior change can be medically related, but I'm sure you know that. Please keep us posted.


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## malluver1005 (Nov 15, 2009)

stajbs said:


> Maybe keep an eye on things and just maybe make sure nothing is going on medically. Are there any other subtle changes that you may have observed. Don't mean to worry you in any way, but sometimes a sudden behavior change can be medically related, but I'm sure you know that. Please keep us posted.


Oh don't worry. I'm not worried. Neurological disorders did cross my mind, but this is the first time he has done this. There is no history of aggression. If he does it again, then I will look further into it. No changes with anyone at home, or with Aspen or myself. Everything is normal.


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## stajbs (Jun 5, 2010)

Also, as danemama says, I do believe it is likely that there was "miscommunication" between your brother and Aspen. Love the book On Talking Terms with Dogs; Calming Signals. I am not sure where I learned it, perhaps that was the book, but I've also learned never to approach a dog head on directly. Always come in from an angle. That was a new one for me.


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## stajbs (Jun 5, 2010)

malluver1005 glad to hear you feel fairly certain it's not medical. I hadn't even gone so far as to think neurological at all, but for some reason in northern breeds I have seen some behavioral changes when the thyroid goes out of whack. I was thinking more along those lines if there was something "off" medically.


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

Did you see the story about the little girl who was attacked by her dog who she had grown up with, the dog was sleeping and she knealt down to give it a kiss and the dog attcked her. The family put the dog down after that. 

I wasn't sure of the reason but always knew not to directly face/face a dog, I wonder how many unnecessary attcks could have been avoided.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Which is why learning canine behavior and communication is paramount today. So many attacks and behavioral issues with dogs can be avoided if we know how to act appropriately towards our dogs and communicated with them. Please look into each of the resources listed in my first post, they will set a good foundation for any dog owner.


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## Ania's Mommy (Feb 8, 2009)

TOTALLY agree with what Natalie said. 

This is just me thinking out loud because I don't really think this is a possibility. But it doesn't hurt to explore all possibilities. So could Aspen have any problems with his eyes? Maybe he didn't see your brother approaching because of that? 

I'm sure that Aspen was just startled because he may have nodded off again. But if he was awake when your brother approached, I might consider they loss of eyesight as the reason.

Also, I'm betting that if Aspen had truly turned "killer", your brother wouldn't have been fast enough to escape. And it wouldn't have just been a quick snap. That's why I am sure that Natalie's assessment is correct. He was just giving a warning based entirely on reflex.


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## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

I'm not saying that this is the case at all, but maybe he could do with a little more NILF? The reason I say this is I've just had something similar happen. My dog was on the bed night before last. Told her to get down and she LIFTED HER LIP to me. It only lasted a split second and she got down 2 seconds later, BUT! Believe me, this is the first time she's ever done this and I understand it was her way of telling me to leave her alone, but if I was a kid or someone who didn't read that signal, then she could very well have taken it to the next step. I'm not making a huge fuss of it, just taking steps to remind her of her position in our family, like, no bed at all unless invited and other NILF things. 

The reason I'm going on about this is because it could be something similar with Aspen. I would say that unless he was woken out of a dead sleep and it was indeed a reflex action, then he would have displayed other signals prior to snapping. Read those links Nalalie gave you, it's fascinating. It may be wise (and fun) to teach your brother the body language of dogs as well. 
And, I agree, I'm sure if Aspen was truly going to bite, he most definately would have, I personally think he was displaying a very strong 'go away' signal.


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## cast71 (Sep 16, 2010)

whiteleo said:


> Did you see the story about the little girl who was attacked by her dog who she had grown up with, the dog was sleeping and she knealt down to give it a kiss and the dog attcked her. The family put the dog down after that.
> 
> I wasn't sure of the reason but always knew not to directly face/face a dog, I wonder how many unnecessary attcks could have been avoided.


Same thing happened by my friends house. The owner took his dog out back and shot it in front of his other dog. The other dog was traumatized and kept it's distance as much as possible. My friends dog went to that house and brought the traumatized dog home:wink: She stayed longer and longer until she never went home. The owner didn't even care when we approached him months later about his dog finding a new home. She's been living with my friend for around 5 years now. Dogs are much smarter than some people think. It amazes me how one dog rescued the other. She turned out to be an awesome dog. She runs through the woods so fast, that she outruns ATV's. She still can't deal with guns or fireworks:frown: 

I also think that Aspen wasn't approached right. I would use your voice to awake him and let him know your there. Don't want to spook the big boys:biggrin: When it gets real cold here and I have my facemask on, Gunner tries to attack me, until he hears my voice. I make sure to use vocal commands, to stop him from thinking I'm a stranger


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## Khan (Jan 17, 2010)

Not sure I have anything more to add. I agree that this was due to Aspen being startled from a dead sleep. Face to Face is never a good idea, as Natalie and others have expresses. Just as coming over the top of their heads to pet them is viewed as a threat. Always go under their head to pet their neck/chin.

I am happy to hear throughout all this, that Aspen has not been made out to be the "Bad Guy" Training the humans to respect the canine world is so often needed; but never done. Nice to see so many of us in that frame of mind! 
One more reason why I love DFC!!


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