# so what's the conces on evo?



## RCTRIPLEFRESH5 (Feb 11, 2010)

do you guys feel it is different now that p and g has been around a while?
should is tick with totw, or give evo herring a try?


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## Ania's Mommy (Feb 8, 2009)

I haven't heard anything credible about the quality of Natura products going down hill since the takeover. Evo Herring is pretty darn stellar food. FEED IT! :becky:


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

The only Natura food in which our sales declined rapidly for is Innova, and I think that's because there are so many alternatives and comparable foods on the market. 
I have gotten ZERO complaints on any Evo products, nor any on California Natural. I didn't get complaints on Innova but people just stopped buying it (most went to Canidae or TOTW) so we stopped selling it. I think people weren't as quick to change foods without REASONABLE reason to believe the quality will go down. No solid proof of that yet. Evo is one of the two top best of the best foods on the market, even still. California Natural is the absolute best limited ingredient formulas on the market. P & G owned or not, Evo and Cal Nat still trump all other foods in their "classes".(except orijen!)
I don't have any kibble fed dogs, but both Evo formulas are in my kibble fed cat's rotation, and I've noticed no changes on the bag, appearance of the food, or health of my cat. I still save the bag til the next round to check for changes. Our resident dog work, Murphy, (the blind cocker rescue) eats cal Nat Herring and no changes or complaints there either.
I'm not saying that nothing will ever change, but it hasn't yet, and I don't expect it will. Both of these Natura foods remain in our top 5 best selling brands, with no complaints. 


*I know you didn't ask about Cal Nat, and I'm not recommending it unless your dog needs a food like that, I just threw it in there to show where all Natura brands seem to stand with my many, many customers.


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## cast71 (Sep 16, 2010)

My dog did awsome on evo. I could notice no difference between that and raw, except teeth getting crudded up. Stools looked similar. You'll notice that it will cost less than feeding totw, since you will feed much less. I stopped feeding it, just because I hate p&g. It's still the same formula though. I feed orijen now. Cost more, but uses higher quality meats;0) i say price wise, I spending almost the same as when I fed totw, maybe a little more ;0)


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## chowder (Sep 7, 2008)

I still keep a bag of EVO small bites turkey and chicken around. It is the only kibble that Chelsy can eat and there are days when she refuses chicken and will just crunch on some EVO kibbles. I haven't noticed any change in it at all. I like it because it has some of the fewest extra ingredients of the kibbles - not a lot of vegies and fruits.


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## Jack Monzon (Jul 25, 2010)

I recently added canned EVO 95% to my dog's diet. He loves it and I love the results.


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## kevin bradley (Aug 9, 2009)

there is nothing concrete that anyone can claim has changed in EVO. I'm not a huge fan of the takeover but I'm also not a fan of people making up fear mongering claims either. I've learned you can find ANYTHING online. There are lots of stories on Orijen killing peoples animals. I can go pull up an article in 5 minutes about how dangerous it can be to feed a RAW diet to your Dog!... Imagine how inflamed that would make some on this board.

net/net-EVO still checks out to be a pretty darn solid food. Even with the PG takeover.


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## schtuffy (May 17, 2010)

I've always been a fan of it...though I must admit I never fed it. The reason for that, however, was that I just decided to stop feeding kibble and go PMR. I had bought 2-3 varieties and had them ready for a rotation...and ended up donating it to a shelter. If I still fed kibble, I would definitely use it in my rotation. It gives my friend's dog soft poops though, and overfeeding isn't the issue hwell:


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## PDXdogmom (Jun 30, 2010)

The ingredients list and guaranteed analysis on the bags of Natura ( now P&G) products read the same as before the sale. I haven't heard of people noticing differences in feeding their dogs.

I think the one thing that is still in the back of many people's mind is that even though the ingredient lists read the same, the sourcing of the ingredients may be of lower quality to increase the bottom line profit margin. But, of course, it's difficult to judge the quality of the ingredients and to some extent the source with many companies.


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## monkeys23 (Dec 8, 2010)

I switched off of Evo (rotated all flavors) asap when it was bought out. I am not totally comfy with Diamond products either. I just know a little too much about the meat industry and corporate ethics vs. the bottom line (aka shareholders profits...). I know a lot of people recommend TOTW very often, but I've never been totally satisfied with it with either my cat (that was awful actually) or when Scout tried some (that was pretty bad too).

Orijen or Acana grain free would be my first choice if I had to feed kibble. Acana Pacifica is awesome if you feel you need a fish based grain free food. Grasslands was their favorite though.
Nature's Variety Instinct sat well when I fed it after getting off Evo. I tried the Chicken/Turkey, but they've got quite a few flavors I think.
I've heard great things about Go! Naturals Endurance grain free chicken/turkey food.


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## 1605 (May 27, 2009)

We continue to get good results with Zio being on EVO Turkey/Chicken. 

On Sat we picked up the puppy (who is now about 3 1/4 months old) and he is eating the same formula, albeit in the "small bites" version. However, given the interest he has in Zio's "large bites" this may be the one & only "small bites" bag that he gets.

I actually emailed EVO a couple of months back because I was concerned the possibility of them sourcing ingredients from China. Here is the response I received:


Dear [my first name removed],


Thank you for contacting Natura Pet Products. All of our raw material suppliers are carefully audited and inspected and must meet our stringent supplier requirements before becoming an approved Natura supplier. Before accepting any raw materials, we confirm that the shipment is from one of our approved Natura suppliers and that it also meets all specifications prior to accepting it into our inventory and using it in any of our foods or treats.

We support limiting the use of hormones and antibiotics in the raising of livestock. We are committed to searching for supplies of meat that avoid residues of hormones and antibiotics and are proud of our industry first Karma 95% Organic Dry Dog Food which is certified to be free from both added hormones and antibiotics.

Once an ingredient is marked for use in a pet food facility, it can no longer be classified as a “food” ingredient, it is a “feed” ingredient.

We also do not source any ingredients at all from China.

If you have any other questions or concerns, please contact us at your convenience.

Sincerely,

April
Licensed Veterinary Technician
Natura Product Advisor
[email protected]
1-800-532-7261


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5 (Feb 11, 2010)

SubMariner said:


> We continue to get good results with Zio being on EVO Turkey/Chicken.
> 
> On Sat we picked up the puppy (who is now about 3 1/4 months old) and he is eating the same formula, albeit in the "small bites" version. However, given the interest he has in Zio's "large bites" this may be the one & only "small bites" bag that he gets.
> 
> ...


u shouldnt feed ur puppy evo.....take it back immediately!


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## PDXdogmom (Jun 30, 2010)

Natura (now P&G) has flip-flopped on the EVO and puppy issue through the years. For a long while they said it should not be fed to growing puppies. Then, they said it could be fed to a puppy if the amounts were strictly regulated, but to expect maximum growth. IMO, it's not a wise choice for a puppy. It has one of the highest calcium and protein amounts on the market.

As far as the sourcing of their ingredients in their e-mail response: "We support limiting the use of hormones and antibiotics in the raising of livestock". That leaves a big loophole for actually using meats that include significant amounts of hormones and antibiotics. And while they may not use ingredients from China, there are an awful lot of other countries where you might not want some of your ingredients coming from either. It would be interesting to ask them to list all the countries from which they source ingredients.


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

Some people have a difficult time letting this intenet hysteria go. It's nothing more than that ... internet hysteria.



PDXdogmom said:


> As far as the sourcing of their ingredients in their e-mail response: "We support limiting the use of hormones and antibiotics in the raising of livestock". That leaves a big loophole for actually using meats that include significant amounts of hormones and antibiotics.


I don't think they ever claimed to use hormone/antibiotic free meat in theri products. I don't remember for sure but I don't think so. It appears she is just making a statement and not making any claims.

And while they may not use ingredients from China, there are an awful lot of other countries where you might not want some of your ingredients coming from either. It would be interesting to ask them to list all the countries from which they source ingredients.[/QUOTE]

Perhaps you would like to ask ALL dog food companies the same question. 

I know you hate it that Natura still has one of the two best kibbles out there. You(collective you) want soooo bad for there to be a decrease in the quality of their product but it never happens does it? But you(the collective you) keep looking and keep hoping, never giving up. But it just doesn't happens. One of these days you all are going to have to eat your words and your fighting having to do it for all your worth now.


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## PDXdogmom (Jun 30, 2010)

RawFedDogs said:


> Some people have a difficult time letting this intenet hysteria go. It's nothing more than that ... internet hysteria.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


RawFedDog's post:
_Perhaps you would like to ask ALL dog food companies the same question. _
_I know you hate it that Natura still has one of the two best kibbles out there. You(collective you) want soooo bad for there to be a decrease in the quality of their product but it never happens does it? But you(the collective you) keep looking and keep hoping, never giving up. But it just doesn't happens. One of these days you all are going to have to eat your words and your fighting having to do it for all your worth now.[/_QUOTE][/I]

Actually, yes, I would be curious to have all companies list their ingredient sources; but considering you can't get that even for most human food products it's not likely to happen. Ever since all the recalls of a few years back, so many people are concerned about ingredients from China in pet food. Quite a few companies make it a marketing point to say no ingredients from China. They may simply be sourcing some ingredients from other countries like Thailand. 

I certainly don't think it's a situation unique to Natura. I'm fairly suspect of many companies marketing strategies. I do appreciate when I see companies list at least some of their ingredient sources like Champion Petfoods (Orijen and Acana) and The Honest Kitchen. And as far as vitamins used in dog foods, my understanding is that almost no human or pet vitamins are made in the U.S.

I can't speak for others, but I don't personally feel any of the hysteria that you identify concerning P&G now owning Natura. I just view it as highly possible that a mega product company like P & G may purchase lesser grade of ingredients to increase the profit margin in their newly acquired dog food line. It would simply be viewed as a smart business move. To be fair, any of the companies could switch certain ingredients to a lesser quality grade and we the consumer would never know.

I fed EVO as a rotation kibble for a while to my two dogs. My lab got terrible eye boogers on it (both times I tried it for rotation). So, for us, EVO was not "one of the two best kibbles out there".


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

PDXdogmom said:


> I can't speak for others, but I don't personally feel any of the hysteria that you identify concerning P&G now owning Natura. I just view it as highly possible that a mega product company like P & G may purchase lesser grade of ingredients to increase the profit margin in their newly acquired dog food line. It would simply be viewed as a smart business move. To be fair, any of the companies could switch certain ingredients to a lesser quality grade and we the consumer would never know.


P & G didn't get to be the size it is because it's run by idiots. I would say that, if anything, they would increase the quality of ingredients because the customer base of Natura products is big on quality. They were going after the quality food feeders when they bought Natura. They already have the majority of mediocre food feeders. If they wanted to put Natura products in the same category as Eukanuba etc, they wouldn't need to buy them. There would be no reason. They would just have the Eukanuba people come out with a different line.



> I fed EVO as a rotation kibble for a while to my two dogs. My lab got terrible eye boogers on it (both times I tried it for rotation). So, for us, EVO was not "one of the two best kibbles out there".


To be honest I have never fed either one of them. I don't think they were in existance when I started feeding raw. Like the biggest majority of people, I didn't know how to "grade" kibbles when I fed it. When I learned what was in kibble, I started feeding raw. :smile:


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## chowder (Sep 7, 2008)

I'll pop in here on the EVO debate. I buy EVO and I have fed it to puppies! We had a hypoglycemic 1 pound chihuahua puppy and once I put her on EVO small bites, she never had another episode. The vet said it was fine for her and approved it.

I also keep it around for Chelsy because it is the ONLY kibble she can have and when she refuse to eat any meat, she will usually eat a few pieces of EVO kibble. It has the least amount of unnecessary fruits and vegies that I can find with the most meat. I also keep their 95% meat canned on hand for emergencies like power outages (tornados, hurricanes, ice storms). 

I haven't noticed any change since they switched to P & G. For full disclosure, I am on their survey list and do a lot of survey's for them. They have increased their customer survey's since the takeover and seem to be asking a lot more questions about what customers want in a dog food. I give them an honest opinion (MEAT MEAT MEAT!!!)


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## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

I think it's only large breed puppies it's not recommended for. I personally wouldn't until 8-9 months. I don't feel the protein is an issue at all but the high amount of calcium is.


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## kevin bradley (Aug 9, 2009)

I guess I have to speak out on one point...

Small company=good. Large company=BAD. 

Let's get one thing straight.... there are TONS of unethical small companies... in EVERY industry. I feel like there was this Halo over Innova before the P and G takeover. I've been vocal saying that I wish they would have stayed independent. I'm not sure I was correct... I honestly don't know. 

For as many negatives you can think of about P and G... there could potentially be positives also. HUGE Quality control departments and processes, potentially limitless budgets to use for research on Pet Foods.... I'm just sayin'. Not claiming they WILL do this... but that they could.


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

Lets look at it another way:

Small company = much less efficient
Large company = much MORE efficient

Thats proven over and over again. Why do you think small businesses can't compete with Walmart? The answer is size. Why do you think small independent grocery stores can't compete with the chains? Again, its size.

This is getting away from Dry and Canned Dog Food, so I won't comment any further about size in this thread before I get a spanking. :biggrin: If someone wants to start another thread in the General Talk section, I'll be there. :smile:


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5 (Feb 11, 2010)

kevin bradley said:


> I guess I have to speak out on one point...
> 
> Small company=good. Large company=BAD.
> 
> ...


to be honest, i feel that the p and g takeover reveals that natura was always unethical..and bad.
it;s funny, i got a postcard in the mail(not email) about that legal stuff with natura haha

kevin didn't u used to feed evo, and then switched immediately? u hypocrite!:biggrin:

imo it's more a matter that PANDG took them over..not that a big company took them over. p and g has a history of not doing one word you said. although their new iams simply naturals chicken and barley looks pretty decent...note i said SIMPLY NATURALS.they have 3 natural formulas...2 of which are horrible.

also it should be noted that rawfeddogs owns stock in p and g. not saying he's wrong, but just wanted to alert those who are debating with him


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

I think we all know that RC lol, I feel like it's mentioned every time P&G/Evo is brought up.


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## PDXdogmom (Jun 30, 2010)

I think this thread about EVO demonstrates how people place varying priorities on the kibble they choose to try for their dogs. To some, it's solely about the ingredients list and the guaranteed analysis. For others, the sourcing of ingredients and the profile of the manufacturer is a major concern. I'd say we're all pretty fortunate to have so many choices from which to choose . . . whatever our priorities.

And as far as big companies versus small companies. I'm so happy to now be living in a city of 584,000 people that only has one Walmart. Here, smaller businesses do compete very successfully with the likes of Walmart because there is a collective mindset that the smaller business can provide things the larger corporations do not. Take a look at one of the most successful grocery stores in Portland (5 within the city limits) New Seasons Market - Home


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

PDXdogmom said:


> And as far as big companies versus small companies. I'm so happy to now be living in a city of 584,000 people that only has one Walmart. Here, smaller businesses do compete very successfully with the likes of Walmart because there is a collective mindset that the smaller business can provide things the larger corporations do not. Take a look at one of the most successful grocery stores in Portland (5 within the city limits) New Seasons Market - Home


My post didn't say "good" or "bad" ... it said "more efficient" and "less efficient". I'm thinking that one Walmart sells more groceries in a day than all 10 of those stores do in a month at a much cheaper price. Yes small businesses can offer services large ones just can't. Walmart customers wouldn't shop at these stores and vice versa.


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

Walmart is the down fall of America..................Most everything they sell comes from China, and their employee's can't even make a living wage.


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

whiteleo said:


> Walmart is the down fall of America..................Most everything they sell comes from China, and their employee's can't even make a living wage.


My husband works nights as an unloader, and we get along just fine, thanks.

Honestly, I will be the jerk and say while I understand that people don't want to support Wal mart for one reason or another: fact is, they have good prices, and many people can't afford to shop elsewhere. Bill is absolutely right, in that big companies generally operate more efficiently. Though I don't carry low quality pet foods in my business, I have access to them, and there's no way I could match Wal marts prices and make a profit. 
I also hear Wal mart get a pot of crap about how they apparently treat their employees. My husband has worked as an unloader at the Lindon, UT location for a year now. Benefits are great, pay is decent, raises come fast, bonuses are wonderful, and they've been better about working around his school schedule than any other job has. 

If you can afford local boutique prices for everything, that's great. As a small business owner, I applaud you. But I will stick with my 99 cent hand soap, and cheap groceries.


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

whiteleo said:


> Walmart is the down fall of America..................Most everything they sell comes from China, and their employee's can't even make a living wage.


Walmart has the most efficiently run distribution system in the world. Their individual stores are very efficiently run. EVERY single one of their employees knew what their salary would be when they started to work. No one is forced to work for Walmart. If they aren't happy, they can leave. Outside meddlers should leave well enough alone. No, I don't own stock in Walmart but I have in the past. Wish I still had it. Many people just hate to see success and Walmart is a very successful company so, like other companies such as Microsoft, they have enemies that don't like them simply because they hate success. This country was built on success. It thrives on it.

*ETA:* Every single person that doesn't work for a government is working for someone who is successful. If not, they won't have a job long.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

I have a like/hate relationship with Walmart. I like that their stuff is cheap and easily available in most areas (well...because we don't have a lot of money!) BUT I do hate Walmart because they are corporate America.


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

DaneMama said:


> BUT I do hate Walmart because they are corporate America.


Yes, terrible of them to be successful and provide thousands of jobs.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

It's not that. It's more them taking over the market that could be occupied by small businesses that aren't corporate owned and operated. They take a lot of business away from small businesses. Lack of ethics overall....if you havent seen it already you should: 

WAL-MART: The High Cost of Low Price


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## DoglovingSenior (Jun 26, 2011)

I always wonder what their prices will be when they have (should I say we have) run the last of the smaller businesses out of the market? I dislike unregulated monopolies on principle.


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

So, how big (successful) does a business have to become, before it steps over the line and gets put in the group with the big bad businesses? 
Business is competitive, it is not butterflies and dandelions. If I put the guy around the corner out of business, mine is more successful. It's a fact of life- NO ONE goes into business to to be the second most successful, or as successful as the competition. 
Don't get me wrong, I am ALL FOR small businesses. I am. I own one. I make a small living on one. (I'd make a bigger living if the shady daycare around the block went out.... in fact, it would make my day!) 

Wal Mart will go out of business when everyone stops shopping there. I will stop shopping there when I can get most of my needs at a different place, at a price I can afford. 
Until then, to Wal mart I will go. Every weekend.

And running a successful small business would be a difficult task, even without Wal Mart around. Most don't last past the two year mark. There IS a market that will ONLY support small businesses, and that market is ever-growing. DOn't get me wrong here, I'm not singing the praises of the company, just stating facts. In fact, I am one of the people that DOES pay more for certain things, just to support local businesses. I go to the small local theater over Cinemark and Regal, I pay a few cents more per pound for my chicken quarters from the small family owned butcher I order from to support them over Wal Mart, and I'm always open to carrying hand made local items in my storefront, or make referrals to such things. Small Businesses have a lot to offer that big companies can't, and they will always have that. Our local committee of small business owners that meets once a month is actually quite strong, and our businesses are thriving. I do not overlook the tragedy of small businesses closing. Personally, I have put just about everything I have into my business, if I go under.... I'm screwed. But, at the same time, can I afford to give people jobs like wal mart? no. Can I afford to give the prices wal mart can? no. My husband makes more after 1 year there, than my longest-standing employee that has been with us for almost 3 years (business has been open for 4)... because that's just what we can afford to dish out.

Without wal mart prices, I'm sure there are many days I wouldn't have been able to feed myself dinner. *stares at my wal*mart brand EVERYTHING in my cupbord*


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

DaneMama said:


> It's not that. It's more them taking over the market that could be occupied by small businesses that aren't corporate owned and operated. They take a lot of business away from small businesses. Lack of ethics overall....if you havent seen it already you should:
> 
> WAL-MART: The High Cost of Low Price


I've never read such garbage in my life. Most of the posts on that blog complain what Walmart pays their employees. How many of those people are actually Walmart employees? I'll bet very few. Who is stopping Walmart employees from working somewhere else for more money? I STRONGLY suspect they can't find a job anywhere else making more money or they would. I just don't understand why people are so worried about how much someone else makes for a living. Thats crazy. I also strongly suspect the main complainers are the small business people who can't compete with Walmart's efficiency. It seems most of the people who work their asses off to stop Walmart from building a store and the same people who fill up the parking lot once the store is built. When I lived at my previous house, Walmart opened a store 1/2 mile from my house. My neighbors raised cain and fought tooth and nail to keep the store from opening. Of course they were unsuccessful but they all shopped there and stopped complaining after the store opened. And yes, our property values actually went up after the store opened. Cost of living went down because of Walmart's prices. Walmart actually brought more buisiness to the non-retail businesses in the area. It created jobs. It pays taxes. I know a lot of communities that should be begging Walmart to open a store near them because thiey are dying now.


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

Expanding on what Bill said, I know few small businesses that start employees at much more than mimimum wage. I also know VERY few that offer decent health insurance packages. I sure as Hell don't. I made less than 30k last year, and what I owed in taxes was insane.(I don't think huge companies should get the giant tax breaks they do...) 
Wal Mart started my husband with NO experience, at $2 over minimum, and he got a raise at 3,6, and 12 months. Plus, hes guaranteed a job if we move at the nearest Wal mart. As someone in a household with the second income being from Wal Mart, and based on the pay, benefits, and how awesome theyve been about hubbys work schedule... I'm not complaining. When people get fired, they get pissed. When people get pissed, they get motivated. I'm sorry, but at ANY job big or small business alike, you're just another employee until you prove you are worth paying to do the job. I Hate laying people off. Hate it. Worst thing ever. But the lazies, the negatives, the bad attitudes... if I keep them, I make less money, and my business doesn't thrive.


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

And so you guys like giving your money to china, so glad to know that......................And , No they do not pay their employee's well...........


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## 1605 (May 27, 2009)

PDXdogmom said:


> Natura (now P&G) has flip-flopped on the EVO and puppy issue through the years. For a long while they said it should not be fed to growing puppies. Then, they said it could be fed to a puppy if the amounts were strictly regulated, but to expect maximum growth. IMO, it's not a wise choice for a puppy. It has one of the highest calcium and protein amounts on the market.


I have researched the calcium & protein issues for puppies and found:

1) There is no restriction on protein for puppies of medium sized breeds like GSPs; it's LARGE breeds where this is a factor.

2) The amount of calcium does not exceed the maximum allowable for puppies.

One minute a food is "all stages" another it's "puppy" or "adult" specific. It all depends on which particular food you pick on which particular day. As it happens, I ran this food past the breeder before putting him on it & she didn't see a problem with it.




PDXdogmom said:


> As far as the sourcing of their ingredients in their e-mail response: "We support limiting the use of hormones and antibiotics in the raising of livestock". That leaves a big loophole for actually using meats that include significant amounts of hormones and antibiotics. And while they may not use ingredients from China, there are an awful lot of other countries where you might not want some of your ingredients coming from either. It would be interesting to ask them to list all the countries from which they source ingredients.


No offense, but it's not feasible for me to trace ALL the ingredients in ALL the foods I consume, let alone those for my dog. If you want to spend your life doing that... enjoy.

At some point you have to rely on the standards of the country in which you live to help you make your own decision about what products to use in your life. I have researched kibbles and choose to accept that EVO is a good quality food for my dogs. You may accept that or not... your call.


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## kevin bradley (Aug 9, 2009)

RawFedDogs said:


> Walmart has the most efficiently run distribution system in the world. Their individual stores are very efficiently run. EVERY single one of their employees knew what their salary would be when they started to work. No one is forced to work for Walmart. If they aren't happy, they can leave. Outside meddlers should leave well enough alone. No, I don't own stock in Walmart but I have in the past. Wish I still had it. Many people just hate to see success and Walmart is a very successful company so, like other companies such as Microsoft, they have enemies that don't like them simply because they hate success. This country was built on success. It thrives on it.
> 
> *ETA:* Every single person that doesn't work for a government is working for someone who is successful. If not, they won't have a job long.



That they do, Bill. I work with them pretty closely for the company I am employed. 

They are so advanced in their distribution network... it is an art form. Anything else they do?.... merchandising, customer service, quality of products.... not so much.


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## 1605 (May 27, 2009)

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> u shouldnt feed ur puppy evo.....take it back immediately!


Oh PLEASE!!!! 

BTW, in the off chance it hasn't been brought to your attention, the word is *consensus* not consces [sic].


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## kevin bradley (Aug 9, 2009)

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> to be honest, i feel that the p and g takeover reveals that natura was always unethical..and bad.
> it;s funny, i got a postcard in the mail(not email) about that legal stuff with natura haha
> 
> kevin didn't u used to feed evo, and then switched immediately? u hypocrite!:biggrin:
> ...



I know RC, I've been all over the board on the Natura thing...

Honestly, where I stand today can best be summarized with... Hell, I don't know. I do not think you can say a company will become crap simply because they are big. Until someone comes to us with some real proof that Innova products have declined, how can we KNOW? 

I do think there is SOME reason to believe that more cost savings initiatives will be driven by a larger company. I DON'T think that is crazy because I live it every day where I am... stock prices, the publicly traded aspect, the constant drumbeat of earnings expectations..... all of this stuff is more prevalent in a larger company.... Whereas in a smaller private company, possibly not so much. 

My thoughts, take em for what they are worth.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Damn. I had a long typed out message and just lost it. I will just take that as the world telling me I should let it go. 

End of story...walmart still sucks IMO. And we should let this thread get back on the original topic.


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## DoglovingSenior (Jun 26, 2011)

" No they do not pay their employee's well........."

Especially if they are women. I do not think that ANY company should have the power to do what Walmart did in Quebec several years ago. I still believe in the1st Amendment. Just like I try my best to support local/smaller farmers. I do NOT want my food source under one big agri-business conglomerate. This is MORE than just being successful-I truly support success, the "American Dream" Wal-Mart is fast becoming an "American Nightmare". I check all labels now & will not buy "Made in China" even though I sometimes will have to do without. The Chinese have proven, with their own people, how little they care about quality control. I'm determined to somehow work this out the next time that I buy a car-hmmm.

Do I fault people for working there? Heck no, we do what we must to survive. Nor do I ask anyone to join me in my private little "Boycott" I just do what I feel I MUST in order to look in the mirror each day & that is different for each of us.


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

kevin bradley said:


> They are so advanced in their distribution network... it is an art form. Anything else they do?.... merchandising, customer service, quality of products.... not so much.


They are the most successful retail company in the world. They must do something right. :smile:


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## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

DoglovingSenior said:


> " No they do not pay their employee's well........."
> 
> Especially if they are women. I do not think that ANY company should have the power to do what Walmart did in Quebec several years ago. I still believe in the1st Amendment. Just like I try my best to support local/smaller farmers. I do NOT want my food source under one big agri-business conglomerate. This is MORE than just being successful-I truly support success, the "American Dream" Wal-Mart is fast becoming an "American Nightmare". I check all labels now & will not buy "Made in China" even though I sometimes will have to do without. The Chinese have proven, with their own people, how little they care about quality control. I'm determined to somehow work this out the next time that I buy a car-hmmm.
> 
> Do I fault people for working there? Heck no, we do what we must to survive. Nor do I ask anyone to join me in my private little "Boycott" I just do what I feel I MUST in order to look in the mirror each day & that is different for each of us.


What did Wal-mart do in Quebec?


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## kevin bradley (Aug 9, 2009)

RawFedDogs said:


> They are the most successful retail company in the world. They must do something right. :smile:


Bill, absolutely. But outside of their success in driving every possible cost out of the supply chain.... I can't find what else they do well. 

Target kills them in merchandising and display. Just about everyone kills them in quality of products. Customer Service in the stores?...nearly laughable. 

I'm all ears if you can tell me what else they do right aside from Supply Chain cost reduction, which admittedly is huge.


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

I can't argue with your Target statement. They are not a store that deals in high end models of any products. If you want high end go somewhere else. Walmart customers are price driven. 

I have had exactly zero problems with customer services. In the last few months I have had questions about blu-ray players, wireless routers, and cell phones. I will preface what I say to an employee with, "I'm not going to buy it today but I have some questions about ________." They have never failed to spend whatever time I need for them to explain to me what I need to know. They have always been very curteous. Whenever I can't find something, I ask an employee and they can always direct me to which isle I need to go to. I don't know what more you can ask for in customer service. I've never had a problem with their customer service counter either. I am always helped with professionalism.

With all that said, I generally don't like to shop at Walmart mainly because of the customers and because I generally buy high end stuff. :smile:


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## kevin bradley (Aug 9, 2009)

thats fair, Bill. I suppose customer service is pretty store specific... possibly even department specific. 

note- one thing we must understand as consumers is that the low prices we demand DO come at some additional costs to these retailers. You want a $400 50" LCD TV, you probably aren't gonna get an Electronics Engineer in every Wal Mart Electronics dept.


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## PDXdogmom (Jun 30, 2010)

SubMariner said:


> I have researched the calcium & protein issues for puppies and found:
> 
> 1) There is no restriction on protein for puppies of medium sized breeds like GSPs; it's LARGE breeds where this is a factor.
> 
> ...




You are correct in the sense that AAFCO states the maximum allowable for calcium is 2.5% no matter what the age; and protein has no maximum allowable.

At the same time, AAFCO states a minimum of 8% fat for puppies and a minimum 18% protein for adult dogs. I don't personally know any people who knowingly feed their puppies 8% fat or look for 18% protein for healthy adult dogs. My point being: AAFCO states very wide ranges for minimum and maximums with their standards being to avoid extreme health problems. Within those ranges, breeders and everyday dog owners search for foods that supply the percentages they feel their dogs do best with. And as you point out, breeders of different size dogs (small, medium, large, etc). have comfort zones at different levels.

All this information doesn't take away from the fact that Natura has flip-flopped with their responses through the years on feeding EVO to puppies. As always, the consumer has to make the final decision. I've always felt it's somewhat more about feeding the appropriate # of calories as opposed to a magic %.

As far as reading labels and sourcing ingredients: as I said in another post, it is next to impossible to do that for human let alone pet food. I don't have a whole lot of faith in the oversight of the standards of the FDA or the pet food industry. There is so little federal money directed to checking compliance levels, that I think researching and having a comfort level with a specific company is the most we can hope to do.
[/FONT=trebuchet ms][/SIZE=3][/COLOR=#4b0082]


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## kevin bradley (Aug 9, 2009)

yep, and AAFCO puts their stamp of approval on Doggy Bag Food.... lol 




Doggy Bag™ Dog Food is value-priced, quality adult dog food. It is nutritionally balanced food for adult dogs.

Ingredients:
Wheat Middlings, Ground Yellow Corn, Meat and Bone Meal, soybean Meal, Calcium Carbonate, Animal fat (preserved with BHA and citric acid), Animal Digest Salt, Choline Chloride, Zinc Sulfate, Ferrous Sulfate , Vitamin E Supplement, Zinc Oxide, Manganous Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Niacin, Biotin, Vitamin A Acetate, Calcium Pantothenate, Thiamine Mononitrate (source of Vitamin B1), Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (source of vitamin B6), Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex (source of vitamin K activity), Riboflavin Supplement (source of vitamin B2), Vitamin D Supplement, Cobalt Carbonate, Folic Acid.

Guaranteed Analysis:
Crude Protein (min.) 18%, Crude Fat (min.) 6%, Moisture (max.) 12 %, Crude Fiber (max.) 12%.


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## PDXdogmom (Jun 30, 2010)

OMG . . . and here I thought that Beneful was the lowest of the low. The Doggy Bag Dog Food ingredient list is jaw-dropping.


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## kevin bradley (Aug 9, 2009)

yeah, we had a "worst Dog food" post awhile back. My entry was "Doggy Bag..." from Tractor Supply. Kind of sucks because Tractor Supply actually has some pretty decent foods(TOTW, 4H, BlueBuff).... dissapointing they would sell this crap.


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## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

kevin bradley said:


> yep, and AAFCO puts their stamp of approval on Doggy Bag Food.... lol
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I thought it had to be 8% fat? Seriously though. 6% FAT?! That is TERRIBLE. I didn't even know a dog could survive off so little fat and protein. It's 64% carbohydrates.


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## 1605 (May 27, 2009)

PDXdogmom said:


> You are correct in the sense that AAFCO states the maximum allowable for calcium is 2.5% no matter what the age; and protein has no maximum allowable.
> 
> At the same time, AAFCO states a minimum of 8% fat for puppies and a minimum 18% protein for adult dogs. I don't personally know any people who knowingly feed their puppies 8% fat or look for 18% protein for healthy adult dogs. My point being: AAFCO states very wide ranges for minimum and maximums with their standards being to avoid extreme health problems. Within those ranges, breeders and everyday dog owners search for foods that supply the percentages they feel their dogs do best with. And as you point out, breeders of different size dogs (small, medium, large, etc). have comfort zones at different levels.
> 
> ...




GSPs are extremely active, athletic dogs that need a high calorie, protein-rich food. The amount of calories they put out during field trials, hunt tests, etc. is staggering. They need speed, stamina, and range when doing these events. However, GSPs in "field condition" tend to be slim enough to see their ribs, yet heavily muscled. (In fact, owners who want to put their dogs into conformation events have to actually "fatter up" their dogs to do so. Something I'm NOT inclined to do.)

That's the main reason I switched to EVO, because it fulfilled our dog's nutritional requirements with what I believe are good ingredients. Not everyone's dog requires that many calories, protein or fat in their food.


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## trikerdon (May 14, 2011)

whiteleo said:


> And so you guys like giving your money to china, so glad to know that......................And , No they do not pay their employee's well...........


So, how much stuff in your house (all products) are not made in China? How about your car? Just wondering.....


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

trikerdon said:


> So, how much stuff in your house (all products) are not made in China? How about your car? Just wondering.....


German cars, could be a lot of stuff, but I won't buy into the takeover of Walmart over the little stores who have worked their asses off. Because of Walmart people are able to buy crap they shouldn't have, give crap to their kids who shouldn't have it, and therefor expect that they should have anything they want without working for it, or take care of it.


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## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

SubMariner said:


> GSPs are extremely active, athletic dogs that need a high calorie, protein-rich food. The amount of calories they put out during field trials, hunt tests, etc. is staggering. They need speed, stamina, and range when doing these events. However, GSPs in "field condition" tend to be slim enough to see their ribs, yet heavily muscled. (In fact, owners who want to put their dogs into conformation events have to actually "fatter up" their dogs to do so. Something I'm NOT inclined to do.)
> 
> That's the main reason I switched to EVO, because it fulfilled our dog's nutritional requirements with what I believe are good ingredients. Not everyone's dog requires that many calories, protein or fat in their food.


I always wondered why show dogs are tubby. You'd think they would have to be in optimum condition.. not fat. Some breeds are shown thin like sighthounds.. but LABS.. my god. The ones I saw at the dog show I went to a week ago barely looked like they could run let alone retrieve for hours on end.


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## PDXdogmom (Jun 30, 2010)

Caty M said:


> I always wondered why show dogs are tubby. You'd think they would have to be in optimum condition.. not fat. Some breeds are shown thin like sighthounds.. *but LABS.. my god. The ones I saw at the dog show I went to a week ago barely looked like they could run let alone retrieve for hours on end.*




Totally have the same perspective. In an unofficial sense, most labs have really been bred into two different categories: the show/conformation lab and the field/hunt lab. 

If you look at photos of lab show winners from many decades ago, they look much more moderate than they do today. You'll find some breeders vehemently defending that their show lab is not fat or overweight; that it simply is the bone structure that is different. For the most part I disagree. My lab came from a litter bred for conformation with a mother and father that had shown quite successfully. The comparison between my lab (female) and one of her female siblings is significant. They're both on the lower end of acceptable breed height and have broad chests, but my dog looks toned and considerably more lean. Her sibling (who does compete) looks like she would be uncomfortable if she had to walk a fast pace for half an hour, IMO.


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## 1605 (May 27, 2009)

PDXdogmom said:


> [/B]
> 
> Totally have the same perspective. In an unofficial sense, most labs have really been bred into two different categories: the show/conformation lab and the field/hunt lab.
> 
> If you look at photos of lab show winners from many decades ago, they look much more moderate than they do today. You'll find some breeders vehemently defending that their show lab is not fat or overweight; that it simply is the bone structure that is different. For the most part I disagree. My lab came from a litter bred for conformation with a mother and father that had shown quite successfully. The comparison between my lab (female) and one of her female siblings is significant. They're both on the lower end of acceptable breed height and have broad chests, but my dog looks toned and considerably more lean. Her sibling (who does compete) looks like she would be uncomfortable if she had to walk a fast pace for half an hour, IMO.




I think that has happened with almost all the hunting dogs: there is a show breed & a hunting breed with a smattering of Dual Champions (show & field) thrown in to make things even more confusing.

Zio is well within breed standard but would be considered "too small" to compete in the conformation ring. (He has a Dual Champion champion sire and a Field Champion dam. ) But you know what, I don't care! He's from a good healthy field stock, with a wonderful temperament and not too bad to look at either. JMHO, of course. 
 
Also, it seems that breeders of show dogs are so concerned with looks that eventually certain genetic health issues become almost a certainty (like bad hips on GSDs or high-strung Shelties). Something I'm glad hasn't really shown up in field bred GSPs.


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## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

SubMariner said:


> I think that has happened with almost all the hunting dogs: there is a show breed & a hunting breed with a smattering of Dual Champions (show & field) thrown in to make things even more confusing.
> 
> Zio is well within breed standard but would be considered "too small" to compete in the conformation ring. (He has a Dual Champion champion sire and a Field Champion dam. ) But you know what, I don't care! He's from a good healthy field stock, with a wonderful temperament and not too bad to look at either. JMHO, of course.
> 
> Also, it seems that breeders of show dogs are so concerned with looks that eventually certain genetic health issues become almost a certainty (like bad hips on GSDs or high-strung Shelties). Something I'm glad hasn't really shown up in field bred GSPs.


To be fair there are many responsible show breeders and enthusiasts. I just think that dogs should be bred for function, health and temperament first. Form follows function. Its why you don't see pugs or bulldogs doing retrieving or shelties being water dogs. To breed for looks only in my opinion is wrong. 

I never understood why show lines departed from field lines. A breed should still be able to do what it was intended. No good hunting dogs are that fat.


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5 (Feb 11, 2010)

i was talking to a dog store owner the other day, and he told me he had the same concern. he told mme that proctor and gamble leaves their ingredients on ice for 6 months before even using them in food -_-


PDXdogmom said:


> The ingredients list and guaranteed analysis on the bags of Natura ( now P&G) products read the same as before the sale. I haven't heard of people noticing differences in feeding their dogs.
> 
> I think the one thing that is still in the back of many people's mind is that even though the ingredient lists read the same, the sourcing of the ingredients may be of lower quality to increase the bottom line profit margin. But, of course, it's difficult to judge the quality of the ingredients and to some extent the source with many companies.


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5 (Feb 11, 2010)

i was tempted to try acana myself..but it cost pretty much the same as orijen.


monkeys23 said:


> I switched off of Evo (rotated all flavors) asap when it was bought out. I am not totally comfy with Diamond products either. I just know a little too much about the meat industry and corporate ethics vs. the bottom line (aka shareholders profits...). I know a lot of people recommend TOTW very often, but I've never been totally satisfied with it with either my cat (that was awful actually) or when Scout tried some (that was pretty bad too).
> 
> Orijen or Acana grain free would be my first choice if I had to feed kibble. Acana Pacifica is awesome if you feel you need a fish based grain free food. Grasslands was their favorite though.
> Nature's Variety Instinct sat well when I fed it after getting off Evo. I tried the Chicken/Turkey, but they've got quite a few flavors I think.
> I've heard great things about Go! Naturals Endurance grain free chicken/turkey food.


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5 (Feb 11, 2010)

how big are the large bites? we should be getting a bag in a few days once the store gets them in.


SubMariner said:


> We continue to get good results with Zio being on EVO Turkey/Chicken.
> 
> On Sat we picked up the puppy (who is now about 3 1/4 months old) and he is eating the same formula, albeit in the "small bites" version. However, given the interest he has in Zio's "large bites" this may be the one & only "small bites" bag that he gets.
> 
> ...


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5 (Feb 11, 2010)

Noone can ever leave walmart!


RawFedDogs said:


> Walmart has the most efficiently run distribution system in the world. Their individual stores are very efficiently run. EVERY single one of their employees knew what their salary would be when they started to work. No one is forced to work for Walmart. If they aren't happy, they can leave. Outside meddlers should leave well enough alone. No, I don't own stock in Walmart but I have in the past. Wish I still had it. Many people just hate to see success and Walmart is a very successful company so, like other companies such as Microsoft, they have enemies that don't like them simply because they hate success. This country was built on success. It thrives on it.
> 
> *ETA:* Every single person that doesn't work for a government is working for someone who is successful. If not, they won't have a job long.


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5 (Feb 11, 2010)

how is it unethical to force your competitors out of business? sounds brilliant in my eyes. business is a dirty game no room for the nice guys kind of like dating  jk


DaneMama said:


> It's not that. It's more them taking over the market that could be occupied by small businesses that aren't corporate owned and operated. They take a lot of business away from small businesses. Lack of ethics overall....if you havent seen it already you should:
> 
> WAL-MART: The High Cost of Low Price


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> i was tempted to try acana myself..but it cost pretty much the same as orijen.



what???? everywhere i've seen acana it has been about the same as evo.


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## jtb12886 (Sep 19, 2010)

RawFedDogs said:


> They are the most successful retail company in the world.  They must do something right. :smile:


Ya they sell their product cheap, which in turn they have to get their products cheap. So they have to get their product from china and mexico. So for all the people they employ, millions of more manufacturing jobs are lost to other countries. So next time you want to shop at these big box stores remember your only taking away good union jobs from your children and grand children


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## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

Yeah Acana here is the same price as EVO per pound, Orijen is around 20% more.


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> i was talking to a dog store owner the other day, and he told me he had the same concern. he told mme that proctor and gamble leaves their ingredients on ice for 6 months before even using them in food -_-


RC, you just can't resist perpetuationg internet hysteria, can you? Use your brain for a change. What the heck would they gain by doing that? That would cost a LOT of unnecessary money. How would a "dog store owner" be the soul person who knows that? Think, man, think!!! Learn to filter the garbage. If you let all that garbage into your brain eventually all you have is a brain full of garbage. Learn to filter! Question the things you hear/read. Don't accept everything that goes in your eyes or ears.


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

jtb12886 said:


> Ya they sell their product cheap, which in turn they have to get their products cheap. So they have to get their product from china and mexico.


Several years ago (I can't remember exactly how many), Walmart prided itself in buying as much american products they could. Eventually it became more and more difficult because the american worker can't compete with the foreign worker. You can thank the unions for that. You're going to see Boeing sending it's jobs overseas very soon. Unions.



> So for all the people they employ, millions of more manufacturing jobs are lost to other countries. So next time you want to shop at these big box stores remember your only taking away good union jobs from your children and grand children


Those "good" union workers were the ones that drove those jobe overseas.


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5 (Feb 11, 2010)

Caty M said:


> Yeah Acana here is the same price as EVO per pound, Orijen is around 20% more.


 ive read on forums acana not being much less than orijen.also i went to doggiefoodscom and a 29 pouhd bag of grasslands is 80 dollars.while a 29 bag of ranchlands is 70 dollars...right on par with th adult and 6 fresh fish orijems/


RawFedDogs said:


> RC, you just can't resist perpetuationg internet hysteria, can you? Use your brain for a change. What the heck would they gain by doing that? That would cost a LOT of unnecessary money. How would a "dog store owner" be the soul person who knows that? Think, man, think!!! Learn to filter the garbage. If you let all that garbage into your brain eventually all you have is a brain full of garbage. Learn to filter! Question the things you hear/read. Don't accept everything that goes in your eyes or ears.


no reason to be rude dude..
i am using my brain..and i'll trust a pet store owner who is risking LOSING a sale over a raw feeder who owns stock in p and g.
also p and g can buy loads and loads of ingredients to save on bottom line and they just keep them in the freezer.
you use your brain you have no idea if it's true.
and no i don't love stirring up hysteria..im purchasing this food so yes I will use my brain and discuss my concerns
it is not my brain that is full of garbage.


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> no reason to be rude dude..
> i am using my brain..and i'll trust a pet store owner who is risking LOSING a sale over a raw feeder who owns stock in p and g.


Of course he's loosing sales talking like he's talking. Did you ever go to a GM dealership and them tell you that GM cars aren't built well? Of course you haven't.



> also p and g can buy loads and loads of ingredients to save on bottom line and they just keep them in the freezer.


There is no reason to do that. P&G can buy is large enough volume without having to buy ingredients they won't use for 6 months. That isn't good business practice.



> you use your brain you have no idea if it's true.


Hehe, of course I do. :smile:



> and no i don't love stirring up hysteria..im purchasing this food so yes I will use my brain and discuss my concerns
> it is not my brain that is full of garbage.


Certainly you do. Whenever you read something or someone tells you something, you can't wait to come to DFC and post about it. It's happened way too many times. You've lost your credibility (if you ever had any). You don't filter information. You hear or read something and you believe it. You don't question at all. No filter. You hear it and repeat it. It's automatic. You don't analyze.


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5 (Feb 11, 2010)

RawFedDogs said:


> Of course he's loosing sales talking like he's talking. Did you ever go to a GM dealership and them tell you that GM cars aren't built well? Of course you haven't.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 i actually learned about this info a few days ago..so no i didn't post about it immediately...and i didn't post that I was in agreement or disagreement about it..part of the learning process is discussing new findings with others.

also i don't understand your first quotation answers...you pretty much agreed with me.....
He was risking ''loosing'' sales ...so obviously he has 0 benefit from telling e that and all of risk.
he was doing what you said a GM dealer wouldn't do. he was saying his cars are not well built. I went into his store to buy EVO and only evo, and he knew that and still told me this info which might have deterred me from purchasing from his stores.


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

Which product did he try to sell you instead of EVO? That's the one he makes the most profit on.


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## kevin bradley (Aug 9, 2009)

RawFedDogs said:


> Which product did he try to sell you instead of EVO? That's the one he makes the most profit on.


awful cynical view, Raw 

I'm just sayin'


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5 (Feb 11, 2010)

kevin bradley said:


> awful cynical view, Raw
> 
> I'm just sayin'


THE GUY knew i was there for evo and only evo


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## Tobi (Mar 18, 2011)

RawFedDogs said:


> There is no reason to do that. P&G can buy is large enough volume without having to buy ingredients they won't use for 6 months. That isn't good business practice.


Not only this, which would lose the company much credibility, but it would also cost them more per lb to freeze it for 6 months as freezing costs are astronomical... I worked building industrial freezers 1million sqft+ for many years, the costs at which to freeze products for long terms is unbelievable. if they had lets say 50 tons of product for freezing for 6 months... they would be looking at well over $2,000 per month per ton. That is why company's freeze and rotate it out, I don't believe that anybody would be this silly. EVEN if P&G owned their freezer space they would still be overpaying by a VERY LARGE margin for storing it ( electricity costs alone).


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5 (Feb 11, 2010)

Tobi said:


> Not only this, which would lose the company much credibility, but it would also cost them more per lb to freeze it for 6 months as freezing costs are astronomical... I worked building industrial freezers 1million sqft+ for many years, the costs at which to freeze products for long terms is unbelievable. if they had lets say 50 tons of product for freezing for 6 months... they would be looking at well over $2,000 per month per ton. That is why company's freeze and rotate it out, I don't believe that anybody would be this silly. EVEN if P&G owned their freezer space they would still be overpaying by a VERY LARGE margin for storing it ( electricity costs alone).


well all il lsay is i hope you guys are right...obviously it;s in my best interest ha
today i picked up a tonnnnnnnn of samples that a different store ordered for me...got evo turkey and evo red
i only gave him the red and he loved it 

i did notice something weird though.
both evos only have meat/veggie ratios that add up to 99 percent evo turkey is 80/19 evo red is 76/23
i called natura and she seemed clueless and gave me an answer of rounding will occur or some bs.

while i was on the phone with her i asked if the sourcing of the ingredients was changed or expected to change and she said no..unless she lied i must trust her 

she aid p and g chose natura to buy out because p and g liked their standards LOL

i must adit i feel pretty badass feeding evo


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## 1605 (May 27, 2009)

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> i was talking to a dog store owner the other day, and he told me he had the same concern. he told mme that proctor and gamble leaves their ingredients on ice for 6 months before even using them in food -_-


And he got this information from WHERE?

Again HEARSAY and RUMOUR is presented as fact. :wacko:


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## 1605 (May 27, 2009)

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> how big are the large bites? we should be getting a bag in a few days once the store gets them in.


Wait a minute....

In a previous post you putting up hearsay information about the quality of EVO since P&G bought them, now you are getting EVO? 

Make up your mind! :twitch:


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

SubMariner- His thought process doesn't make any sense. Don't try to figure it out lol.


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## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> well all il lsay is i hope you guys are right...obviously it;s in my best interest ha
> today i picked up a tonnnnnnnn of samples that a different store ordered for me...got evo turkey and evo red
> i only gave him the red and he loved it
> 
> ...


Probably the other 1% is vitamins and minerals added...


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5 (Feb 11, 2010)

meggels said:


> SubMariner- His thought process doesn't make any sense. Don't try to figure it out lol.


guess that means earthborn is a crappy food because i have no mind and i said it was good -_-

caty- doesn't orijen add even more vitamins? and theirs are 80/20 75/25

what do you guys think of the answer igot from p and g...seems they are retaining the quality


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5 (Feb 11, 2010)

ive always loved evo;s ancestral kibble formulas.
shane went crazy for the red meat as is winston.
winston was not a fan of totw wetlands nor was he a fan of primitive natural like shane haha
sure im concerned about proctor and gamble, but i'm willing to take the risk, especially since the company assured me that nothing has changwed


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> guess that means earthborn is a crappy food because i have no mind and i said it was good -_-
> 
> caty- doesn't orijen add even more vitamins? and theirs are 80/20 75/25
> 
> what do you guys think of the answer igot from p and g...seems they are retaining the quality



yes....thats exactly what it means....


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## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

No one knows if Orijen adds more than EVO. They don't list exact amounts of each vitamin on their labels. I don't know what else it would be, seeing as everything on their list is either vitamins, veggies/fruit or meat.


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