# shocked by vets reaction



## diamond8 (Apr 29, 2012)

ok so i had atila at the vets this morn for her allergie injection . ask the vet who is not my normal vet i deal with can i weigh atila just to check her weight as her diet has been changed. all was well the vet asked what food had i changed her to i said "raw" well the woman nearly fell over her nice friendly attitude became a little less friendly . she basicly said people feed raw because they want there dog to be a "real" dog and that it was mostly for show, she then said that the dog will be lacking in all sorts of vitimins and minerals she said "we see alot less problems now a day with dogs as they used to come in with rickets years ago" and then said in general it was a bad idea and that the kibble foods made now a day "have alot more meat in them " "they may cost more but they cover all the needs of the dog unlike raw" i explained if i could get a word in that im extreamly careful with the meat / bone / organ ratio. she then added well if i was going top keep feeding raw i would need to feed veg esp green beans? and that in order to feed raw i would need a degree in nutrition.

now i know shes hardly going to recommend raw as she is selling all that profitable kibble at the front of her counter but i just thought her reaction was over the top. i never realy said much cos once my mouth opens it cant be closed and she is the one with 10 years of a vet degree behind her. 
now trust me i will never be feeding kibble again . but are the dogs getting every thing they need from a raw diet will i add veg it just got me thinking thats all
i wouldent mind after the vets i was off to the abbatoires to collect all my meat for the month ha ha she would die if she seen the back of my car.:wacko:


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## bett (Mar 15, 2012)

most vets do not understand raw feeding or believe in it. that being said, there are things that must be aded to raw, for the dog to have a complete diet . whether you use supplements or supplement with foods, it needs to be done.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

diamond8 said:


> she then added well if i was going top keep feeding raw i would need to feed veg esp green beans? and that in order to feed raw i would need a degree in nutrition.


Oh my God. They must teach that in vet school! That's EXACTLY what my most hated vet used to tell me!! With the roll-eyes kind of look -- well, do YOU have a degree in nutrition?

Oh, that brings back nightmares. It's a total patronizing put-down for the ignorant masses of dog owners, and I hope you NEVER have to see that vet again. Jackass.


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## chowder (Sep 7, 2008)

Does she ask her clients with children if they have a degree in HUMAN nutrition so they can feed their kids properly? Does she have a degree in HUMAN nutrition so she can feed herself properly? Next time, just look at her and tell her 'It's not rocket science to eat, people have been managing to feed themselves and their families for years without a degree, and my dog is my family!'.

End of my rant.


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

I'm with Xellil and Chowder here.....bunch of bull she is trying to tell you!

Dogs are carnivores, carnivores eat animal matter....last I checked that was meat, bone and organs. Your dog(once fully transioned) will get the proper amount of each with just a little work from you(we feed 7 pet carnivores and they all get their proper amounts without any veggies let alone processed foods!:thumb

This world, or better yet our society, has come to rely on processed foods so much it make me sick!! (Well in reality it's making us all sick, but that's another topic!). No processed food is going to be better then a well balanced natural diet, for any animal, carnivore or omnivore!:thumb:


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## splitnightsky (Jun 20, 2011)

I HAVE a degree in nutrition and I feed raw because it makes sense.
it may be human, but I still understand the way things are absorbed in a digestive system.
everyone who knows that I feed raw (except for vets) tells me that it makes sense.
if I'm trying to stay away from processed foods, why would I go and give them to my dog?
just like my doctor tried to give me nutrition advice and I ignored her because her advice was completely unsound,
I do the same to a GENERAL veterinarian. 

thankfully my vet just told me that he'd constantly have diarrhea. 
once I realized this was not true, I brushed her suggestions aside and kept following the advice from this forum.
and you know what? people tell me I have the most beautiful dog they've ever seen,
and that has nothing to do with the fact that he is purebred. 

oh, and one last point, if my dog is "missing" so many vegetables,
why does he leave every last one of them alone in my yard?
seems like he would try and compensate for him not receiving by eating those or grass,
and yet he treats the vegetable garden like it's dirt.
seems a little fishy to me.

*end rant*


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

Your dog will absolutely be fine with a variety of protein sources and meat, bone and organ. My original mentor has fed her shelties raw this way for 27 years and she breeds and shows. Mine are only on two years but the change has been phenomenal.


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## diamond8 (Apr 29, 2012)

thanks all 
for your replys god the more i think of the "look" she gave me the angryier i get after paying if you dont mind €1500 in allergy related problems today and i wouldent mind the dog is allergic to "storagemites" which my own regular vet said was most likely in the kibble i was feeding at the time .atila has been on raw now about 6 weeks a guess what all allergies have gone my other dog pearl also had it and its gone aswell coincidence i dont know.i understand a varied diet is needed god i even have a full pig comming next week to add pork to there diet. i knew vets were a little stand offish on this matter but this just left me in shock .as she said "id never feed my dog on raw" im thinking why would you your probably getting enough free food from the dog food companys to last you a life time . thanks all :smile:


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

bett said:


> most vets do not understand raw feeding or believe in it. that being said, there are things that must be aded to raw, for the dog to have a complete diet . whether you use supplements or supplement with foods, it needs to be done.


What should be added to raw? The only supplement needed is omegas IF the dog doesn't eat fish or grass only fed meats. Otherwise, protein variety provides all nutrition.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

diamond8 said:


> thanks all
> for your replys god the more i think of the "look" she gave me the angryier i get after paying if you dont mind €1500 in allergy related problems today and i wouldent mind the dog is allergic to "storagemites" which my own regular vet said was most likely in the kibble i was feeding at the time .atila has been on raw now about 6 weeks a guess what all allergies have gone my other dog pearl also had it and its gone aswell coincidence i dont know.i understand a varied diet is needed god i even have a full pig comming next week to add pork to there diet. i knew vets were a little stand offish on this matter but this just left me in shock .as she said "id never feed my dog on raw" im thinking why would you your probably getting enough free food from the dog food companys to last you a life time . thanks all :smile:


Believe me, that "look" is a familiar one to me. In fact, the reason I eventually found this place was because of a vet who worked in the ER and I showed up there several times a month, to go through the same routine with him. The look, the patronizing comments, eye rolls, the works.

The real reason I found this site was because of him so I should actually thank him. I was so sick of his nasty tone to me every time we showed up, yet we kept showing up! So I didn't want his solution but mine was not working either.

Sadly, once we went on raw we never had to go back to the ER again and then we moved. So I never got to tell him I figured it out. And it wasn't Science diet 

Nothing needs to be added to raw. Raw IS the complete diet.


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## pogo (Aug 28, 2011)

Yep the look is an all to common one, take it with a pinch of salt or like me tell them where to shove it, you are paying for their service they have no right to treat you like shit, although alot do.

Just carry on with the raw, forget about the veggies and ignore the idiots


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## shellbell (Sep 24, 2011)

Green beans, seriously?


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## chowder (Sep 7, 2008)

shellbell said:


> Green beans, seriously?


What is it with everyone and the green beans? Is it some kind of craze now? My sister made a big deal to me the other day that she adds green beans to the top of her dogs kibble. Frankly, I wasn't quite sure how to respond to that. I mean, I had just made my dogs a pan of sardines, eggs, and raw boneless meat. Let's compare..... dry kibble with canned green beans on top or raw meat with raw eggs and sardines on top? 

Guess which one I think her dog would have preferred!


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## blue_dog (Mar 28, 2012)

Isn't it obvious? They're magic beans. 

The only thing that really scares me about raw is having to deal with my vet. I like him for the most part, Sam loves him and he doesn't try and rob you blind every visit. But I still remember mentioning that I was training Sam with cooked chicken and he said "Oh, no, no, no. Dogs can't have people food. Just dog food". It was almost three years ago but still.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

chowder said:


> What is it with everyone and the green beans? Is it some kind of craze now? My sister made a big deal to me the other day that she adds green beans to the top of her dogs kibble. Frankly, I wasn't quite sure how to respond to that. I mean, I had just made my dogs a pan of sardines, eggs, and raw boneless meat. Let's compare..... dry kibble with canned green beans on top or raw meat with raw eggs and sardines on top?
> 
> Guess which one I think her dog would have preferred!


I fed Snorkels a bunch of green beans before we moved to raw food. They told me it was a great filler and would make her feel full so she could lose weight. 'they" being her foster and the vet.

And if you homecook I think it's a staple - I cooked for a foster dog once and it was liver, brown rice and green beans on the advice of the rescue gruop people.

Which I now find so strange because of all the vegetables I would give a dog green beans wouldn't be at the top of the list.


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## lauren43 (Feb 6, 2011)

Well if it makes you feel any better my friend was just recommended Science Diet to assist her dog in weight loss. I told her today to return it immediately, I explain to her that vets and nutrition do not go hand in hand these days. Luckily my friend trusts me and we went out and got her a nice bag of Fromm Salmon, I also explained how she should feed her and that the guidelines on the bags are exactly that..guidelines, of course she's worried her dog will be starving. Here's the thing her dog is nearly 3 and already experiencing joint issues due to the extra weight...

So in other words vets are there to take care of our pets medically and it seems many are not well versed in nutrution (which I believe should have more importance)...

I keep thinking to myself "When did it become socially acceptable to feed our pets highly processed nuggets. If someone told a person they could eat one type of cereal for the rest of their life and that it would be nutritionally complete, we'd think they were crazy."


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## DaViking (Sep 27, 2011)

Beans? Legumes?

Corn + Legumes = [insert_answer_here] (should provide entertainment for the evening crowd)

Say what, champion hunting dogs living entirely on grits, legumes and greens, no way!

peace


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## SaharaNight Boxers (Jun 28, 2011)

Edited to not get anything started...


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

SaharaNight Boxers said:


> If you don't like us going to your, sorry the dry and canned section and talking about raw, why do you come over here and talk about things that don't agree with PMR? Ironic huh?


His nose is out of joint. He'll get over it eventually.


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

DaViking said:


> Beans? Legumes?
> 
> Corn + Legumes = [insert_answer_here] (should provide entertainment for the evening crowd)
> 
> ...


Why Organ Meat Is Important For The Raw Fed Dog

You should read this. 

A dog may SURVIVE on garbage it is not meant to eat, but they do not THRIVE.


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

xellil said:


> His nose is out of joint. He'll get over it eventually.


ROFL

Yes, yes it must be :biggrin:


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

my vets told me i was killing my dogs by feeding raw...and that i should be very careful because they knew i was immuno compromised...

they said they didn't want my dogs having to have the inevitable surgery from bones splintering and lacerating them from mouth to anus....

i remember asking them what the number one cause of blockages were and lacerations...the answer? socks for blockage and sticks for lacerations.

i didn't listen to them.

i've never gotten sick from feeding raw.

my dogs are gorgeous...and one is almost thirteen years old....

after bubba the pug's last set of blood work....two years after starting....my vet called to tell me he had never seen blood work that was so perfect......this dog's values were right down the middle for everything...nothing was to the left nor right of center.....

and then his final words.

'maybe there IS something to this raw thing.'


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## NewYorkDogue (Sep 27, 2011)

magicre said:


> my vets told me i was killing my dogs by feeding raw...and that i should be very careful because they knew i was immuno compromised...
> 
> they said they didn't want my dogs having to have the inevitable surgery from bones splintering and lacerating them from mouth to anus....
> 
> ...


Reminds me of that quote by Ghandi: "Become the change you want to see in the world."

Following the path you believe with your heart... and become the example others want to follow.


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## DaViking (Sep 27, 2011)

I can do one too Sprocket, ROFLCOPTER

:deadhorse: and a fish for good measure :fish:

Since I saw others talked about legumes earlier in the thread I just thought I'd provide some Saturday night trivia on the topic. I guess it was too much for some to handle, silly me.

Here's a flying pig to lighten the mood

:flypig:

I have a dog with a broken nose too if that might be of interest Xellil?


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## wolfsnaps88 (Jan 2, 2012)

Lets turn the hate on me for a moment.

What is with raw feeders hating on green beans? Look, I personally don't feed them to my dogs. But, if I was looking for something to give them as a treat that was natural, low in calories, and had fiber to create the feeling of being full, I would feed green beans. 

Not as part of their diet, but as a snack? 

Why not?

I have seen dogs eat poop. What is so terrible about green beans?

You green bean haters! LOL


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

wolfsnaps88 said:


> Lets turn the hate on me for a moment.
> 
> What is with raw feeders hating on green beans? Look, I personally don't feed them to my dogs. But, if I was looking for something to give them as a treat that was natural, low in calories, and had fiber to create the feeling of being full, I would feed green beans.
> 
> ...


LOL, you're funny.....

green beans are gas formers....that's it. 

only reason not to give.

the beauty in nature is its redudancy for nutrients....or treats. LOL

carrots, too...only reason not to give them is the sugar content as it relates to gut flora and teeth for dogs.

they are higher glycemic, which makes their systems work a little harder to digest....and they only have a limited capacity for digesting fruits and veggies.

i give my dogs cucumber...because i'm clumsy and whilst cutting them up, they oops fall to the floor. or some other green watery veggie...and because it's mostly water, no problems with digestion

i think there is a delicate balance going on in the eco system of the gut....i try to do nothing that will interfere with the gut flora of myself and my dogs. 

but if your dog doesn't get gassy from green beans on occasion, no reason not to feed it.

it's the filler thing that gets me. if a dog is eating adequate amounts of food, the green beans would be a treat..by its very definition, i should think a treat is something not given very often.

so no hate for you.


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## bridget246 (Oct 26, 2011)

Thought I would chime in for a second and point out that the nutritionist I seen could not recommend a raw diet. He did however disagree with the vets on dogs who are eating raw needing carbs and veggies. He told me not enough research was done on it for him to actually back it up without getting in trouble. But the look on the vets faces when he said the dog didn't need carbs was priceless.


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

Why waste perfectly good food on the dogs that can't utilize them anyway?

I'll eat the green beans


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

DaViking said:


> I can do one too Sprocket, ROFLCOPTER
> 
> :deadhorse: and a fish for good measure :fish:
> 
> ...


Sometimes I wonder about you and I worry for your long lost sanity.

Us raw feeders must have really done a number on you at some point. :wink:


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Well, I don't feed them to my dogs now, but I fed a ton of them when we were still on dry food.

They told me to give them to Snorkels as a filler. Most of the weight she lost, she lost on dry food. I was giving her 8 pieces of dry food twice a day, and at night she got a bunch of green beans. For four months before we started raw, she was maintaining her weight on dry - still, lots of green beans. This was the period when she was in the ER 2-4 times a month. 

Fatty meats, and smaller amount, I think would have been so much better for her and she would have had more feeling of fullness, rather than loading her up with a bunch of "filler" that did nothing.

And a foster dog - he had diarrhea and the rescue told me to cook liver, brown rice, and fresh green beans in a crockpot. What was he getting from that? I might as well have replaced the green beans with styrofoam.

I guess I have just gotten to the point where I feel like I don't want to give my dog something that "doesn't hurt" If they are putting something in their mouth, make it count. If they gain weight, feed less of it. 

I've been controlling Snorkels weight on raw for over a year now with no fillers. She loses, she gains. She goes from 7 oz a day to 4 oz a day and between 9-11 pounds mostly dependent on exercise - and no green beans thrown in there. She will never be a dog that doesn't care about food, but she no longer has that desperation in her that she had before we started raw.

She'll eat anything, and she'll smell and track down any food - but when she was after the plums a couple weeks ago she moseyed over there when I wasn't looking. It was all very casual and sneaky. When i follow her to the plum tree, I just scoop her up and bring her back and it' all very calm.

When she was on dry, she'd would smell some food (like the squashed tomato in petsmart parking lot or a chicken bone someone threw out of their car) and just go crazy trying to get at it. Honking like a loud pig, scrabbling, crying when I pulled her away. those green beans were not "filling" anything.


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## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

Personally, I don't see a point to green beans. Most dogs don't "feel full" when they are done eating what we give them anyways. Well, none of MINE ever were! They would eat until they can't eat anymore if they had their way. Buck acts starved to death after he has eaten 2.5 lbs of food and would eat another 2.5 lbs if I let him. I wouldn't give him green beans to "make him feel full" just because he is acting hungry.


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## _unoriginal (Apr 8, 2012)

Some of you may have seen this, some may not.. But I found this a while back regarding natural vitamins and minerals that are present in various meats.

http://www.kaossiberians.com/old kaos pages/health/Nutrients.pdf


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

_unoriginal said:


> Some of you may have seen this, some may not.. But I found this a while back regarding natural vitamins and minerals that are present in various meats.
> 
> http://www.kaossiberians.com/old kaos pages/health/Nutrients.pdf


Thanks - i bookmarked it. I see Caty fixed you up!

The only thing on that list I question is calcium - isn't calcium in all bones? It lists animals that have it. Or I wonder if they have a little more calcium in the meat.


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

I wish there was venison on there. I feed A LOT of venison.


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## _unoriginal (Apr 8, 2012)

xellil said:


> Thanks - i bookmarked it. I see Caty fixed you up!
> 
> The only thing on that list I question is calcium - isn't calcium in all bones? It lists animals that have it. Or I wonder if they have a little more calcium in the meat.


I haven't looked at the sources on that are attached but I'm sure they only used select meats for this.. But it's still a good source to say "Hey vet, what do you mean my dog's not getting proper vitamins?!"


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

_unoriginal said:


> I haven't looked at the sources on that are attached but I'm sure they only used select meats for this.. But it's still a good source to say "Hey vet, what do you mean my dog's not getting proper vitamins?!"


Oh, it's an excellent source.

I haven't yet found anything that someone tells me my dog needs that isn't in an animal part. This brings it all together in one place!


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## _unoriginal (Apr 8, 2012)

xellil said:


> Oh, it's an excellent source.
> 
> I haven't yet found anything that someone tells me my dog needs that isn't in an animal part. This brings it all together in one place!


AND it cites USDA as a source not some raw website. I think I found it on RawFed.com Home Page


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