# Are dogs carnivores or really omnivores?



## dogmanden (Apr 9, 2009)

If dogs should normally eat only raw meat,(as wolves are claimed to eat in the wild), why do my Goldens race in my yard to eat fallen apples & pears? If genetically predisposed to be a carnivore (like wolves) why would they crave fruits? It's not in their dogfood, they're searching for these fruits on there own! Doesn't this show they're really omnivores?? Only a question. Raw feeders please don't go in attack mode.


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## deb9017 (Aug 31, 2010)

I think they just like them. Wolves will also eat berries and such if meat is in short supply. I think the dogs like the taste of the fruit. Just like if you are eating a twinkie, they would love a piece of that too, but it surely is not part of their normal diet. I am not an authority on anything, but that's just my opinion.


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## hcdoxies (Sep 22, 2010)

deb9017 said:


> I think they just like them. Wolves will also eat berries and such if meat is in short supply. I think the dogs like the taste of the fruit. Just like if you are eating a twinkie, they would love a piece of that too, but it surely is not part of their normal diet. I am not an authority on anything, but that's just my opinion.


Yes, I agree with this. My 2 year old son LOVES apples and oftentimes when he's done with it the dogs will steal it. They like the taste... But it's certainly not a part of their diet.


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## ruckusluvr (Oct 28, 2009)

they just like the taste. doesnt mean they should eat them.

id rather have twinkies and cake all of the time myself. but it sure doesnt mean i should eat them everyday, or that they are necessary in my diet


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## dogmanden (Apr 9, 2009)

But if a dogs (wolf) brain is wired carnivore it would't even search for or be tempted to consume fruit. Or non-meat items. Humans are omnivores & like all types of food.


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## Bessie7o7 (Jan 1, 2010)

I would say that dogs are primarily carnivorous but just like many species of wild dogs/wolves, they are also opportuneist/scavengers. One if mine will eat the apples from the tree in my yard. I don't blame him. The apples are good.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Dogs and wolves are opportunistic carnivores and scavengers. This means that they will eat what they can when they can, even in the case of having plentiful food resources. Dogs and wolves are hard wired to eat everytime they come into contact with food, because it's evolutionarily advantageous to be able to survive on pretty much anything. In the presence of meats dogs and wolves will most likely choose that over fallen fruit on the ground. But in the absence of meats (times of famine) they will eat what they can to survive. Even when meat is readily available to them they are hard wired to "prepare" for the next famine and eat and eat and eat what they can. 

In this case I would agree with the others that your dogs just like the taste of fruit and are "preparing" for the next "famine"


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

i believe that sugar is sugar no matter what the species....

if there were a butterfinger tree in my backyard that yielded a crop, best believe i'd be out there...

never had a dog that didn't want what i had when it came to sweets...

..just because they can eat sugar, doesn't mean it's good for them.


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## k9capture_16 (Aug 23, 2010)

If there were a tree in my yard constantly dropping Reese Peanut Butter cups, Chocolate Chip Cookies, McDonalds and lolipops you bet your bottom dollar I would be the first one out there eating them even if it meant killing those in front of me

I wont go in depth on the Carnivore Omnivore debate, I have little energy for that tonight so I better save it to use on getting my a$$ off this chair to go buy me a chocolate bar LOL


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## dogmanden (Apr 9, 2009)

Does a feline cat (true carnivore) eat apples, pears or any sweet foods? I think they walk right past them. My point is that because a dog chooses to eat fruits in it's diet it's an omnivore. One brain is wired to ONLY eat meat to the exclusion of anything else(felines), & the other brain is oprutunistic to what's available, meat, fruit, berries etc(canines).


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## SerenityFL (Sep 28, 2010)

dogmanden said:


> Does a feline cat (true carnivore) eat apples, pears or any sweet foods? I think they walk right past them. My point is that because a dog chooses to eat fruits in it's diet it's an omnivore. One brain is wired to ONLY eat meat to the exclusion of anything else(felines), & the other brain is oprutunistic to what's available, meat, fruit, berries etc(canines).


I have seven cats. They will try to eat everything I have with exception of citrus fruits. They have eaten the cabbage at the bottom of my Chinese take out containers. They have eaten banana. They have tried to eat my chocolate bar. If it smells good, they want to eat it even though they are carnivores.


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## JayJayisme (Aug 2, 2009)

I don't think it's accurate to classify a dog either as a carnivore or as an omnivore based solely on what it consumes. What you should really be looking at is what comes out. 

Carnivores may eat plant matter but they are poor at digesting it. Grass is a perfect example. A lot of dogs eat it because they can't digest it so whatever doesn't provoke them to vomit will pass through them intact (much like non-soluble fiber in the human diet). 

I've seen plenty of coyote scat littered with berries and fruit. It's very common in drought years. I think they eat this stuff for the moisture, not the food value. Or they may eat it if they are starving and can't locate prey. But judging by how much of it comes out intact, they can't be getting much from it.

Another piece of evidence is revealed when you compare the poop from raw fed dogs to kibble fed dogs. If dogs could truly process all the plant matter used as fillers in most commercial pet food, why is their poop so massive (and smelly) compared to raw fed dogs? See this thread for an example...

http://dogfoodchat.com/forum/raw-feeding/4958-raw-vs-kibble-poop-contains-poop-pictures.html

The reason kibble-fed dogs have comparatively large output is simply because all that plant matter passes right through them. If they were omnivores, they would never crap this much after eating omnivore food.

Looking at what comes out is enough to convince me.


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## dogmanden (Apr 9, 2009)

Well I guess I stand corrected regarding feline diets!


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## RachelsaurusRexU (Sep 4, 2010)

I also have cats that will try to eat odd things. Miles has a thing for string beans. Bunny will try to steal your beer if you leave it within her reach. Milner will go for anything remotely sweet. Meatball will eat ANYTHING and I do mean anything that falls to the floor or that she can steal off a plate when nobody is looking. Last week she stole an entire piece of pumpkin pie off the counter while I was pouring a glass of juice. She's even snagged a piece of sauteed onion that I accidentally dropped. But that doesn't change the fact that cats are indeed carnivores.


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## hcdoxies (Sep 22, 2010)

dogmanden - sounds to me like you came here to "prove your point" as opposed to actually ask a question because you want to learn. You asked a question, we have all had the same answers, but you continue to say, "But, but, but..."

You prefaced your question with "Raw feeders please don't go in attack mode." Sounds as if you were preparing yourself... or attempting to provoke.

Maybe I'm wrong. Regardless, you have our answers.


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## xxshaelxx (Mar 8, 2010)

dogmanden said:


> Does a feline cat (true carnivore) eat apples, pears or any sweet foods? I think they walk right past them.


Yeah...say that to my cats. Theus will steal anything and everything that I'm trying to eat, meat, vegetable, fruit, or otherwise. I've caught him eating my LETTUCE for pete's sake!

Why do cats like chocolate? Don't cocoa beans come from trees? Peanut butter? Catnip? Grass? I know my cats eat the grass. The only thing my childhood cat wouldn't eat when I was younger was bananas.

What about things humans eat that aren't actually food? Candy corn? It's wax. But DAMN does it taste GOOD!!!! Did you know that we can't even digest corn? It comes out the same way it went in. Yummy.


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## dogmanden (Apr 9, 2009)

This is why I don't post often. HCDOXIES shows how uptight replys on a simple dog forum can get!!! EXCUSE ME for my point of view. From now on I'll just listen to your expertise!!!


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## RachelsaurusRexU (Sep 4, 2010)

Hey, Pot, meet Kettle!

What's she's saying is that you're asking the question in a very combative manner like you're eagerly awaiting an arguement. There certainly doesn't need to be a conflict over this, and nobody gave you one. The facts are the facts and no amount of "but, but, but" is going to change that. It's like, why even ask the question if you don't want to hear the opposition? People answered your questions, all very politely. Most of us are here to learn from and educate one another. If that bothers you, well, that's very unfortunate.


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## hcdoxies (Sep 22, 2010)

RachelsaurusRexU said:


> Hey, Pot, meet Kettle!
> 
> What's she's saying is that you're asking the question in a very combative manner like you're eagerly awaiting an arguement. There certainly doesn't need to be a conflict over this, and nobody gave you one. The facts are the facts and no amount of "but, but, but" is going to change that. It's like, why even ask the question if you don't want to hear the opposition? People answered your questions, all very politely. Most of us are here to learn from and educate one another. If that bothers you, well, that's very unfortunate.


Exactly what I meant.


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## dogmanden (Apr 9, 2009)

Now I have it straight. Question your expert replys & thats being "combative"!!! You're like "The View" ladies, only YOUR view is acceptable.


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## RachelsaurusRexU (Sep 4, 2010)

hcdoxies said:


> Exactly what I meant.


By the way, I don't really think you're a kettle :tongue:


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## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

dogmanden said:


> Does a feline cat (true carnivore) eat apples, pears or any sweet foods? I think they walk right past them. My point is that because a dog chooses to eat fruits in it's diet it's an omnivore. One brain is wired to ONLY eat meat to the exclusion of anything else(felines), & the other brain is oprutunistic to what's available, meat, fruit, berries etc(canines).



My cat likes marshmallows, cookies, flour and lima beans from a can. If I leave a package of donuts on the counter, and leave for a couple of minutes, there are donut crumbs all over the house and my cat is dusted white from icing sugar.


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## RachelsaurusRexU (Sep 4, 2010)

dogmanden said:


> Now I have it straight. Question your expert replys & thats being "combative"!!! You're like "The View" ladies, only YOUR view is acceptable.



LOL 

Facts and "views" are not one in the same.


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## dogmanden (Apr 9, 2009)

Maybe you should wiki "dialogue" & "conversation"!


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## sassymaxmom (Dec 7, 2008)

The terms "carnivore", "omnivore", "herbivore", "detritivore" and all the others are just terms to sort out the animal world. They were never intended to be absolute statements.


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

When presuming my dog is a carnivore, I just look to the structure of the mouth and jaw!

The jaw is hinged and will not move from side to side say like a horse who eats grass and a cow who chews his cud! If you look at the teeth of the dog they do not have flat molars like horses or cows, who are omnivores! They have sharp, jagged teeth for ripping and tearing meat.

If you have the chance take a look at a horses mouth, I've seen many! The dog has nothing a omnivore needs in order to process its food.


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## deb9017 (Aug 31, 2010)

sassymaxmom said:


> The terms "carnivore", "omnivore", "herbivore", "detritivore" and all the others are just terms to sort out the animal world. They were never intended to be absolute statements.


I think this sums it up perfectly. The terms are used to describe what type of diet the animal eats in general. Just because an animal is labeled a carnivore, it does not mean that they will not eat something here and there that is not meat. It just means their normal diet is meat, and this is what the need to thrive.


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## RachelsaurusRexU (Sep 4, 2010)

dogmanden said:


> Maybe you should wiki "dialogue" & "conversation"!


I don't find Wikipedia to be very reliable.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

dogmanden said:


> If dogs should normally eat only raw meat,(as wolves are claimed to eat in the wild), why do my Goldens race in my yard to eat fallen apples & pears? If genetically predisposed to be a carnivore (like wolves) why would they crave fruits? It's not in their dogfood, they're searching for these fruits on there own! Doesn't this show they're really omnivores?? Only a question. Raw feeders please don't go in attack mode.


i think starting out with 'raw feeders please don't go in attack mode' is not exactly an invite to a tea party....

i don't believe humans are herbivores, but here we are, eating grains. it is my view, it is my perspective, it is my opinion. i do not have facts with which to back it up.

i think there is enough research that pretty much proves dogs are carnivores, along with anecdotal evidence and the fact that enough time has not passed for dogs to evolve into omnivores.

i also believe that sugar is an attractive scent and taste and no one is immune, be it human or dog.

from the time a dog is brought home, he is introduced to sights and sounds and flavours and tastes and smells. kibble has sugar in it. the taste is established. the dog does not need sugar. neither do humans; yet, both eat it. it's a negative effect ingredient for both.

i believe that dogs can and will adapt to a certain diet, especially if it's what is offered or is available.....domesticated dogs, at least....

one is an omnivore and one is a carnivore; yet, both will eat sugar if given a chance. i think the answer is so simple as to defy logic. it tastes good.


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## JayJayisme (Aug 2, 2009)

dogmanden said:


> This is why I don't post often. HCDOXIES shows how uptight replys on a simple dog forum can get!!! EXCUSE ME for my point of view. From now on I'll just listen to your expertise!!!


You expected something else posting this to the Raw Feeding forum? Did you expect all the kibble feeders on the Dry and Canned Dog Food forum to run over here and support the omnivore theory? Not sure what your objective was here but it seems as though you knew your original post would stir controversy here so what's the issue? You asked a question and you've received numerous answers. Whether you agree with them or not is your choice.


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## xxshaelxx (Mar 8, 2010)

whiteleo said:


> When presuming my dog is a carnivore, I just look to the structure of the mouth and jaw!
> 
> The jaw is hinged and will not move from side to side say like a horse who eats grass and a cow who chews his cud! If you look at the teeth of the dog they do not have flat molars like horses or cows, who are omnivores! They have sharp, jagged teeth for ripping and tearing meat.
> 
> If you have the chance take a look at a horses mouth, I've seen many! The dog has nothing a omnivore needs in order to process its food.


That is what I learned in school.

Omnivore, Hebivore, Carnivore, What's the Difference?

That article is on fish, but it's still spot on about carnivores, omnivores, and herbivores.


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## deb9017 (Aug 31, 2010)

xxshaelxx said:


> That is what I learned in school.
> 
> Omnivore, Hebivore, Carnivore, What's the Difference?
> 
> That article is on fish, but it's still spot on about carnivores, omnivores, and herbivores.


That is a great article!!! It is perfect for this discussion


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

What an animal will sometimes eat or not eat does not determine omnivore/carnivore status. You look at the body and see what it is designed to eat, digest, and extract nutrients from. Looking at a dog's jaw structure, dentation, stomach design and intestines, there is no questions that he is a carnivore completely equipped to eat and digest nothing but other animals.


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## dogmanden (Apr 9, 2009)

THANKS for all the info from all the polite, non-critical posters. My intent was only to discuss the question, to agree, disagree, & explanations. Most of you gave that. Again, thanks!


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

So, I guess it is a fact that I am losing my mind! LOL MENOPAUSE, and I can't wait til you young ones get to go through it. But wait, if the stats are anything like at my work, last year alone 4 women under 35 had their insides all taken out so they will never go through: losing your mind daily, night sweats so you have to change your pajamas, change in body odor, and lots of other good stuff. So, when you think you have it all figured out, just think about what you have to look forward to.:biggrin:


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

It's already been said that dogs are opportunistic carnivores and scavengers. They will in fact eat just about anything. 

Look at a dog's teeth and jaw structure. There are no flat molars for grinding plant matter, the jaw opens only up and down, it does not move side to side like other animals that thrive on plant matter. They have teeth build for ripping and tearing meat. Jaws built to chomp bones. It makes sense, from this standpoint, to say that dogs are built to thrive best on a carnivore diet. 

Then onto the digestion process. It's important to remember that digestion begins in the stomach for dogs, and chewing is merely a means to get the food to fit down the throat. Dogs are not capable of breaking down fresh, raw plant matter on their own. They may be able to extract little nutrients from cooked pureed veggies and fruits, but generally all adding that to the diet does is add bulk, not purpose. To me, if cooking and mushing food in order for it to MAYBE be utilized is required, than that's enough to tell me that it's not naturally intended. When was the last time you saw wolves with ovens, blenders, and microwaves? To me, the point of going with a home prepared diet for my dogs is getting away from things that are unnecessary, and stick to things easy and natural to digest: meat, bones, and organs. If I'm going to start blending, cooking, mushing, etc... well, there's kibble and pre made diets for that business. Annie loved green beans. LOVES them. All summer, I picked them out of my grandma's garden, and she adored them. But, rest assured, every time she ate one, it came out looking the same as it went in, which tells me she was able to utilize none of it. NONE. 


Then there's the argument that if a dog eats it, there must be something in it that they "need" or are seeking out. 
I think that often times, we like to think that are dogs work entirely off of instinct, but it's simply not true. Just as you or I eat things for the sole reason that it tastes dang good, so do dogs, cats, and any other animal. Annie is a huge fan of pudding! 
I have a cat that will not TOUCH anything but kibble, and fruit snacks. Yes, fruit snacks. She will not eat canned cat food, she won't eat raw meat, but she will eat fruit snacks. (obviously not something we give her, rather something she tries to steal) 


I don't believe that most fruits or veggies would do much harm to a dog, by any means (starchy foods is another story) but everything I know about dogs tells me that they can survive on an omnivore diet, but thrive and obtain optimum health on a carnivore diet. So, that's what I feed my girls.


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## cprcheetah (Jul 14, 2010)

dogmanden said:


> If dogs should normally eat only raw meat,(as wolves are claimed to eat in the wild), why do my Goldens race in my yard to eat fallen apples & pears? If genetically predisposed to be a carnivore (like wolves) why would they crave fruits? It's not in their dogfood, they're searching for these fruits on there own! Doesn't this show they're really omnivores?? Only a question. Raw feeders please don't go in attack mode.


If that was the case then that makes my Golden Retriever, Shellie a Drysheetrockavore as she thinks that's the best stuff in the universe, I think if I gave her a bowlful of wall pieces she would be in doggie heaven...maybe not she prefers to eat it standing up! Here's proof:







Just because a dog likes something doesn't mean it's good for them or something they necessarily *need* to survive on. Shellie likes sheetrock, but if she eats it it can cause an obstruction. Before my hubby knew better his mom and him used to feed his toy poodle onions, she went nuts for them (to those who don't know onions can cause anemia in dogs). I like chocolate, but it doesn't mean it's good for me in large quantities. As others have said look at the dogs anatomy & physiology to determine whether they are carnivores or omnivores. Simple as that, their teeth, their saliva enzymes etc...tell me they are carnivores.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

Golden Retriever, Shellie a Drysheetrockavore - LOL


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## jackied (Oct 19, 2010)

I dunno, seemed like a real question to me. I know cats steal weird stuff (mine liked crisps and custard) - but as I understand it they do very badly if fed long term on non-meat food - much worse than dogs. My dog survived wild through the winter we think mainly by eating fodder beet. He was thin, of course, but he did survive - and he wasn't skeletal.

There are a lot of diets out there - it's not just kibble vs raw-meat-only. There's BARF, there are diets with pasta in to boost serotonin, etc and all have avid proponents. Those of us who dither really are dithering, not being awkward. Well, i'm not anyway.


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

There are lots of junk diets for dogs just as there are lots of junk diets for humans.


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## moon (Jul 15, 2010)

The question comes from a mistaken point of view... Animals (dogs, cats, etc) are animals - _not machines_. Hard wired in animals is not at all like hard wired in machines. There's no set parameter of actions and behaviors which they can _only_ perform and never stray from (any more than there are in humans). 

So - as most everyone has already said - dogs & cats may eat anything even if they are carnivores - but that doesn't mean it's good for them!


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