# Bil Jac Dog Food Review



## rannmiller (Jun 27, 2008)

The use of molasses also can cause diabetes, too much sugar and all.


----------



## rannmiller (Jun 27, 2008)

This is probably the worst food for the highest price, I'm not sure how anyone actually gets suckered into buying it.


----------



## Von (Jan 27, 2009)

Don't feed this by any means!


----------



## John_Doe (Apr 8, 2009)

I have first hand knowledge of how Bill Jack dog food is made. I also have personaly seen the house keeping practices and pest control as well. Please feel free to ask any questions. I have some good stories.


----------



## John_Doe (Apr 8, 2009)

I can say that rats that eat this product have the thickest coats of fur and brightest eyes of any i have ever seen.


----------



## John_Doe (Apr 8, 2009)

The main source of protein is chicken "guts" necks and backs. The guts turn really green when they sit in the sun for hours or when the trucks that carry them dont't get cleaned out. I hope they are good after they cook them, can they cook the green out?


----------



## John_Doe (Apr 8, 2009)

The new plant manager at Kelly Foods is the old plant manager from Menue foods. Remember the pet food recall company. He was also in charge of Quality control there and released all that bad wheet gluten. Welcome to Kelly Foods Neil Conners. What the hell were are are you thinking Bob Kelly?


----------



## bil_jac_lover (Apr 30, 2009)

okay so idk where all of you people heard that bil jac is so bad for your dogs...i work at a specialty pet store and know all the pet foods really well first science diet is crap way too much sodiam and euckanuba and iams are the same thing madby the samcompany thejust charge you more for the same shit now dont even get me started on beniful and pedagree all they have in them is fillers if you can get your dog to eat blue buffalo then your lucky only a few dogs will same with avoderm the only two dog foods i ever recomend is roal cannin and Bil Jac. bil jac is a great food and idk where you got that whole chicken guts sitting in the sun for hours thing right after they kill their chickens they put it right into the dog food and they dont spray on fat to make the dogs actually eat their food they already have natural fat from the chicken because they dont cook their food at such a high temp they actually spray on vitamins instead to help the dogs so if you guys wanna put something down know all the facts first not just what you hear.


----------



## Christina1 (May 5, 2009)

I don't like the fact that it is chemically preserved...It can cause liver problems in dogs!

Christina


----------



## Zona_Bob (May 9, 2009)

I agree with 'bil jac lover.' The company is family-owned and run and has been doing so since 1947. Their ingredients are top quality and prepared at low heat to preserve the vitamin content and ingredient freshness (none of their products have EVER been recalled). My dog loves Bil.Jac and her health, energy, weight control and coat speak to it. She has a sensitive stomach but never a problem with this dog food. The company uses only US-produced meats and no gluten or wheat meal. Instead of preservatives, they use BHA as an antioxident to prevent breakdown (oxidation) of the absolute minimum of fat included (even other high-end dog foods have more fat than Bil.Jac). Other contributors, above, have not done any real research. I wouldn't worry about their comments.


----------



## Zona_Bob (May 9, 2009)

A comment on the use of corn as a carbohydrate: dogs can't digest complex carbohydrates, so it must be broken down into simpler carbohydrates. The Bil.Jac company successfully breaks down 98-99% of the complex carbohydrates in corn so that it's completely digestible for dogs. And it IS a good source of energy for animals.


----------



## Gina1 (May 9, 2009)

I have had my 4 dogs on Bill Jack for 2 years now and I love the food, I feed large breed food and use the frozen when I have puppies. My dogs look great, coats are healthy, they eat up the food with no left overs......I like the food and so does my Dogs....all the puppies do too!!!!


----------



## kally (May 10, 2009)

my min pin will only eat bil jack puppy and i ve tried on the best,but this is what she likes so i give it to her.


----------



## IngridJ (May 18, 2009)

I have 2 yorkie cross breeds, plus my daughters puppy who is also a yorkie cross breed. When I first got my two I spent hundreds of dollars trying to find a dog food they would like. Luna the female was more picky and she would not touch the other food. We bought from the most expensive foods to the cheapest foods. From the hardest to the softest with no luck. Yorkies are a really picky breed. 

We found Bill Jacks at Pet Smart a few years ago and tried the two brand dog food experiment on them. Sure enough when we put down the most expensive brad next to Bill Jacks, they went for the bill jacks. They are happy, they finish everything off the plate. They are lean, healthy dogs. 

I live in Canada right now and found out that Pet Smart is no longer carrying the brand. I do not know where i am going to find this dog food. I cannot afford to go on a shipping spree again trying to find something they will like. The most expensive foods are too greasy. They should not be greasy, they should be dry to the touch with no grease left behind on your hands. Bill Jacks is like that, nothing left behind.


----------



## Darcy1 (May 19, 2009)

I took one of those Bil Jack challenges. I have a one year old lab who has a very sensitive stomach and most foods cause her to either get loose stool, vomit or get itchy ears. I also have a 13 year old heeler who is very pickey eater. Both dogs absolutely love Bil Jack and beg for more. Both dogs coats have improved, health, and overall energy have improved. I am sold on Bil Jack, my dogs love it and every problem I had with them have improved. I used to feed Eukanuba all natural and that didn't even do what Bil Jack has done for my dogs.


----------



## Juno (Jul 17, 2009)

I started using Bil-Jac three years ago and I wish I had tried it years ago for my Chocolate Labrador. For years he suffered from bloating. When he would throw up, even hours after eating, it was unchewed puffed up kibble. I tried everything to slow down his eating, but that wasn't the problem. Kibble is going to expand in the stomach, no matter how fast or slow he eats. Kibble is the problem, especially for dogs that don't chew.

Once I tried Bil-Jac his coat has improved to the show-coat I have always expected for my champ. No flaky skin at all, like he had with his previous overpriced super-premium food, Acana for large breeds. As usual I believed the by-product horror stories that kept me away from Bil-Jac in the past. Come to find out, the good by-products, organ meat, are just what my dog needed all along. And when you realize the alpha dog of the wild pack gets the choice organ meat, you will come to the same conclusion I did - Bil-Jac feeds your dog like he's the alpha. That is exactly what I want for my dog. 

And since all kibble is made with mostly meat meal for protein, the rendering process is more suspect to me than any by-products that go into premium foods. The thing I realized is all the kibble foods aren't real food. They are meal based and any "fresh" meat is overcooked and all the fat and flavor cooked away. That's why you will see on every kibble bag, no matter how premium, added fat and flavors. Kibble isn't real food, even the natural, organic super-duper premiums. 

While I don't claim Bil-Jac is perfect, it is the best dry dog food I have ever fed my dog. I've tried a lot of them and have read, researched, and fed my dog "premium" foods his whole life. 

I have nothing to gain from recommending this food. I only offer my experience to those who have struggled with similar issues I had with kibble. I will never feed my dog kibble or any food that is made mostly from meat meal, with fat and flavor added to make it taste like something my dog will tolerate. I also vow to never touch a bag of dog food that uses vegetable protein. Very common in brands that advertise "No By-Products" on the bag. That usually means they are probably putting, less digestible and incomplete amino's, vegetable protein to substitute for the absence of animal protein.

Hope this helps.


----------



## GusMom (Aug 7, 2009)

I just started feeding my 4 year old yellow lab mix BilJac dry. He loves it. Since he was a puppy he has been a very fussy eater. We have been through just about every brand of dog food out there. He would eat them, but begrudgingly. Also, he has ALWAYS had horrible gas problems and bad breath. Since starting the BilJac, both of those problems have gone away. 

Belive me, I was a skeptic at first....but seeing is believing and I see my dog doing well with this food.

The only negative side effect I see so far is that he seems to have a dry mouth lately. He smacks his chops alot. I'm hoping this doesn't mean there is too much sugar or salt in the product.


----------



## SL_Trumble (Sep 25, 2009)

I breed chocolate labs and use Bil-Jac puppy food as the base for the gruel I make to wean the puppies. They adore it! It makes weaning easy, and the puppies thrive on the mixture. In less than a week, I am able to start offering them the food dry, and they are willing to eat it.

I asked the clerk at Petsmart why they only recommend Eukanuba and a few other foods and not Bil-Jac and they couldn't answer me - although they said that is was a very good food. Could it be because management is instructing them which foods to recommend?

My adult labs love the food, too, and have absolutely no health or digestive problems.


----------



## Dr._Bill_DVM (Oct 19, 2009)

Of course dogs love food like this, just as kids would rather eat from the dessert bar at a restaurant. It is all sweets, carbs, and junk food. Many dogs tolerate it well and may have a better coat due to just a few supplemented ingredients, not because it is balanced nutrition. If you want your dogs to live a longer, healthier life with fewer diseases when they get older, do some basic research based on facts not what some guy say. I recommend going to Petsmart, write down every brand they carry and NEVER feed it to your dog. 

Even in veterinary school, proper nutrition is barely covered.

Go to http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com for a great rating of dog foods.

A lot of the crap they put into dog food is to firm up the stool so your dog drops cute little chunks you can pick up. How would you like to be passing hard chunks like this your entire life.

Things that do not belong in dog food are preservatives, corn, gluten, wheat, rice hulls, nut hulls, "meat" (can be anything, even euthanized animals and road kill), grains.

Meat ingredients should be in meal form like chicken or beef meal. Chicken and other whole meats are 80% water so when it is dried the meat content drops significantly. Some of the dog foods would make better pig food. Some I wouldn't feed to a pig such as Ol Roy.


----------



## Rocky1 (Nov 12, 2009)

I have to say there are so many uneducated posters here. Bil Jac in business for over sixty years and never a recall. I have three large breeds, one rottie, one saint and one lab, all who eat bil jac all who are between 6 and 11 years of age all who look and act good. Not all dogs do well on bil jac then again not all dogs do well on innova or wellness. I know people who have medium and large breds feed them pedigree or iams or purina one some do good some get diarrhea? People, do your homework before you put down foods with organ by products. This food is fresh, bag after bag. and it breaks down in water does not absorb and swell. Sure it can be made better, add a small amount of fruits and veggies, maybe turkey meal. One thing i didn't like is the removal of eggs from the food line. Again do your homework and get educated and stop listening to all the hype.


----------



## Paul4 (Nov 13, 2009)

Bil Jac uses 4 pounds of chicken to make a six pound bag, 20 lbs for a 30 lb bag. That is a lot of chicken. That is a lot of meat protein. Chicken organs? Of course. Ever been to a kosher deli? Chopped liver anyone? How about tongue? Gizzards? Kidneys? All sold by smaller markets. So what exactly is human grade food? 
No glutens (veggie proteins) are used in biljac. Nothing from overseas. Biljac makes its own food, does NOT ship out a recipe to some plant in Kansas. In that recall a couple years back, it was 3 plants owned by menu foods that had the problem, yet how many different brands of dogfood were recalled? One company ran those 3 plants, but made dog and cat food for over 20 different labels.
NO sprayed on rendered fat. No dyes. There are many university studies that show well cooked corn is a good nutrient, with many benefits. 
Do some research folks, and while you are at it, check the labels of the food you eat, it could be worse than what you feed your dog.


----------



## Jeff_S. (Nov 30, 2009)

I have to agree with Rocky, there seem to be some really uneducated posters here. Then again, this is the internet, where anonymity draws out the freaks, game players and the simply uninformed. I think most educated adults can detect who to listen to and who to ignore.

I've been feeding my 9 year old Rottweiler, 8 year old Lab and 1 1/2 year old Pitt Bull Bil Jac dog food for about a year now. When I was younger I fed my dogs Purina, Iams, etc., simply assuming that since they are national brands, they must be good for my dog. Many health problems and vet bills later, as well as years of knowledge and research, and I know how sadly mistaken I was.

Only two dog foods are made with a process other than extrusion: Bil Jac, which is essentially a raw food that's been dehydrated; and Avoderm, which is oven baked. Everything else, even the most expensive designer brands, is made through extrusion. Do you know what's involved with extrusion?

First, meat and meat tissue (as well as by products in many cases) are rendered down to a fine power form. This is done with profit in mind, as the meat meal has a long shelf life. The meal and other ingredients are placed, in very large quantities, into a giant machine called an extruder. The extruder operates at extremely high temperature and pressure, cooking the food in a matter of seconds. The ingredients are reduced to a slurry, then te food actually congeals into little balls and pops, just like popcorn. The result is commercial expanded chuck, or "kibble." The nutritional value of the food has been severely compromised, and to get dogs to eat it, rendered animal fat is sprayed onto the food.

Sound good? I don't know how it can!

ALL dry dog foods except Bil Jac and Avoderm are made using this process, and the companies who "make" the food really don't make it themselves. Someone else does, then it's packaged under many different brand names.

I don't know what temperature Avoderm bakes their dog food, and since there isn't a lot of research to back up whether avocadoes are really good for dogs, I've stayed away from it.

Back to Bil Jac: Bil Jac's meat content simply cannot be beat. Most varieties have a 66 2/3% ration of fresh chicken used to make the bag. Yes, FRESH chicken, used the day the chickens were slaughtered. Chicken meat and chicken organ meat are the primary ingredients. Yes, your dog does need organ meat. It contains arginine, which helps his immune system work well. The carb source is corn, which is cooked separately, for 40 minutes, in order to reduce it to a simple starch your dog can assimilate and use well, without trouble. 

Ever thought of a raw food diet? Bil Jac is essentially dehydrated raw food, and it really does provide your dog with the proper balance of nutrition your furry loved one needs for optimum health. My old Rottie has THRIVED on Bil Jac - he looks and acts several years younger now. Ditto with my 8 year old Lab, who looks and acts like she's 3 or 4 again. My Pitt Bull, always a high energy dog, looks incredible and has boundless energy, even more so than before.

I am totally sold on this food. I'm a pet trainer, and have done countless hours of research on dog foods, as well as spoken with many, MANY dog owners about the foods they use and the results they see. The truth lies in the results, and the comments. Non Bil Jac customers typically will say, "Oh, it works okay," or, "Oh, he seems to like it. It's okay." Bil Jac customers? Their eyes light up, they smile and their comments are SO enthusiastic and excited! 

So please, ignore the morons and pay attention to those here who seem to have a clue. Sure, Bil Jac might not be right for everyone, but if you can afford it, give it a try. The chances are very good that your dog will absolutely love Bil Jac and thrive on it, too.


----------



## GermanSheperdlover (Nov 15, 2009)

Look whats in this crap. 

1.Chicken. You really think they use a lot, don't believe it believe the reviewer.
2.Chicken By-Products. This is the crap on the floor to include feathers.
3.Corn. Ever see a dog out the fields picking corn. Corn is as bad as it can get for dogs.
4.Chicken By-Product Meal. This is the crap on the floor to include feathers. Can't get any worse than this, it incudes the beak and bones ground up.
5.Dried Beet Pulp. This is bad, check it out. This is whats left over after they make booze. Bad bad bad
Brewers Dried Yeast. Yeast, maybe but Brewers yeast is just crap
Egg Product, LOL, what a joke, ground up shells.

Paul says:
Bil Jac uses 4 pounds of chicken to make a six pound bag, 20 lbs for a 30 lb bag. I have a bridge I'd like to sell you because anyone who believes this statement is just down right stuuupid.

Jeff S. says: 
I am totally sold on this food. I’m a pet trainer, and have done countless hours of research on dog foods, as well as spoken with many,. Your so full of %si! your eyes are brown... Next time you use the word MORON BESURE TO BE LOOKING IN THE MIRROR.

It is very obvious these 2 clowns work for Bil Crap. You 2 show the posters here just how bad it can get at a dog food company. You must have been talked into buying some stock in this company. LOSERS.

Go ahead and posion your dogs, because that is what your doing, feeding this crap to your beloved dog.


----------



## Stephanie1 (Dec 16, 2009)

I knew my dog has always had a skin allergy problem. I fed my dog natural choice puppy, the threw is upp all the time, switched her to the sensitive skin and stomach, did better on that but her skin was somewhat dry. So, I talked to a BilJac rep while working at petsmart.... He convinced me to switch her to BilJac to see if her allergies would clear up.... OH MAN... what a mistake that was! I can't believe the bullshit that guy fed me! The chicken is killed and then cooked whithin a 40 minute time fame, and the corn is cooked very slowly... what a fool i was. now her skin is TERRIBLE! And my Pug is also starting to itch too, and she has never even had a skin problem! I started them on Solid Golid, I hope that will help them.


----------



## steve7 (Jan 7, 2010)

I'm not feed ing my standard poodles bil jac now, but I'm considering it for a new pup. I did feed it to my springers, and they loved it. Only downside I saw was they pooped more than on any other dog food. Nothing wrong with their stools, just seemed to be more volume.

Now Jess had some real interesting comments I thought I'd address:

Corn: my springers use to pick corn, tomatoes and green beans. Loved them all. I did have a problem with the corn--cob that didn't get chewed enough blocked the dogs intestine and had to be surgically removed.

Now, chicken products. You must not spend much time around bird dogs. They love chickens, feathers and all.


----------



## GermanSheperdlover (Nov 15, 2009)

LOL, I bet they shucked the corn also. Sorry my friend, but corn is as bad as it gets for dogs. DOGS "CAN NOT" DIGEST CORN. Chicken feathers ??? Get real, just who are you trying to kid?? Goggle corn and dogs and the other products in this food it might wake you up to what you are really feeding to your dog. Here is a list of some good dog foods, feed your dog one of these

Artemis
Blue Wilderness
Go Horizon
Evo
Innova
Instrinct
Orijen
Taste of the Wild
Wellness
Acana
Fromm
Merrick
Canidae
Evanders
Earthborn
Natrures Logic
Natures Variety
Solid Gold
Pinnacle
Timberwolf
Blue Buffalo
Halo
Natural Balance
California Natural

My friend Orijen Red most likely is the best dog food kibble ever produced. It's a bummer I can't feed it to my dog because he is only 7 1/2 months old. GS.


----------



## Cindy_Weber (Jan 8, 2010)

To Jesse
How long have you been researching dog foods?
I have been doing it and feeding my dogs for more than 20 years.
Of the list you gave , there are only 3 that I would ever feed my dogs.
Bil Jac is a very good food.
Bil Jac gives my dogs everything they need.
Also, you don't know much about dogs if you don't believe they will eat corn and feathers on their own. Your dogs must be house dogs or kennel dogs that don't get much free time.
Bil Jac is not a constant at my house, but I keep going back to it to clear up any problem the other foods caused.


----------



## Robin_Wester (Jan 10, 2010)

Has anyone ever heard of Blackwood foods? Can anyone tell me how this food stacks up to the best?


----------



## Judith1 (Jan 13, 2010)

My dogs LOVE Bil-Jac! I have 3 picky poodles; 2 standards and one mini as well as a black lab. They, with the exception of the lab, were extremely picky and more often than not, left their food to rot in their dishes meaning I had to throw expensive food away, night after night. Now, they'll eat it dry! I even give a few pieces as treats and they love it. No gas, no diarreah, no bad breath. They are thriving on this food and believe me, I've tried all the high priced brands. They simply don't like them unless I cook chicken, or turkey etc to mix with it. I don't have to do that anymore. I am pleased because they are.


----------



## GermanSheperdlover (Nov 15, 2009)

Well Judith, if you put candy in front of a kid he will eat that, is it good for them?? Then put green peas in front of them. Get my drift???? See my list above and you can get samples from good pet stores. Not stores like Wal worst or the chain pet stores.


----------



## Jen5 (Jan 15, 2010)

Why do people keep saying "Ever see a dog in the field eating .." 1. ive never seen a wild dog and 2. my dog would eat about anything... in fact she loves corn on the cob and im sure she wouldnt pick out the good parts from the bad parts of a chicken if she was going to eat it...shed just eat the whole thing


----------



## GermanSheperdlover (Nov 15, 2009)

To Cindy Weber, your most likely a baby to me, LOL, because I am older than dirt. But that doesn't matter, it only takes about 2 hours on the internet to figure out what is a good dog food and what isn't. It is also very easy to find out why and here are some things you should not find in your dogs food------ 
BHT
Soy
Wheat
Sorghum
Dye
Ethoxyquin
BHA
BHT
Propylene Glycol
Artificial Colors
Gluten
Corn
Powdered Cellulose
Peanut Hulls
Tomato pomace
Beet pulp

because they are bad for dogs. I personally can live with a small amount of Tomato pomace in my dogs food, but I am not so with Beet pulp, even though it is in Kirklands brand and I feel that is a pretty decent brand of food and a great price.
If you wonder what I feed, it is Orijen and California Natural, but I am thinking of replacing the Natural.
Here is a good site to go to and read about your dog food (it's your choice but don't make the same mistake I did.)

http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/dog_food_reviews/


----------



## @(^_^)@ (Jan 17, 2010)

well i have 5 little puppies 
they all love eating bil jack 
there fur in shiney nd they are more active they use to be i love how they are more hralthy and how they are more play full and i love how i now that they are going to live longer. Thank you


----------



## Kathy3 (Jan 27, 2010)

I'm looking for a dog food for a Pomeranian that itches ALOT!! I was referred to Bil Jac by a breeder. Thoughts?


----------



## Fay1 (Jan 27, 2010)

To Kathy 
It very well could be a food allergy, the easiest way to find out is to eliminate the most common allergens and see if the itching goes away. While you are doing this make sure that you do not give any treats or table scraps that contain the allergen you are trying to eliminate. The most common allergens are Corn, Wheat, Soy, and Chicken.
My recommendation would be to try Natural Balance Venison and sweet potato formula or Duck and Potato formula and see if the itching goes away in about 2 to 4 weeks. 
I am an Dog nutritionist so if you have any more questions you can E-mail me at [email protected]


----------



## pam2 (Jan 28, 2010)

funny...humans can't digest corn EITHER.


----------



## Antonio1 (Apr 22, 2010)

I know most of the post on here are old, but the whole argument about what a dog will and won't eat is ageless on the internet, bottom line a dog will eat it's own shit if it's hungry. Also most allergens in dogs are not even food related, it's commonly caused b/c these are fur creatures that were designed to spend a ample amount of time outdoors, being locked up 8-9 hours a day is not the life intended for a creature that derived from a outdoor animal. I'm not saying throw your house dogs outside, but if your dog skin itches try to get them out the house more frequently let them play in the dirt and mud maybe even a creek or some open water source if you have one near by that will clear up the dry skin. There is no right or wrong dog food, and most AAFCO approved brands don't have one brand that will make a dog live any longer or shorter than nature intended their lifespan to be. Feed your dog what you can afford if the dog is doing well, keep up the good work, if the dog is not doing well, then do some research and find something that will work. Also while I agree the internet can be useful for a lot of things, dog food is not one of them, b/c their aren't many canine nutritionists that actually get online to began with, most things you read online are simply the opinion of the author. While dogfoodanalysis is a popular site with many, the truth of matter is the foods on their are simply rated in terms of grain free vs grain. And there is clinical proof that some dogs do better on a diet w/ some quality grains as oppose to a grain free diet, this is the case for most German breeds due to their origin and the breweries in their native Germany. So come thru most information with a fine comb and find what's useful and what works, then form your own opinion. While I don't always agree with Jess comments on here, Jess's GSD does look really well on the kibble that its being fed, so premium brands do work better in Jess's case but this might not be the same for everyone else and their dogs. Do your own experiment and find what works for your dogs.


----------



## GermanSheperdlover (Nov 15, 2009)

Antonio, I feed California Natural sometimes and it is one half rice and one half meat. The difference is it is good quaility grain and it is a proven quality company that isn't trying to pull something over on us.


----------



## Antonio1 (Apr 22, 2010)

Hi Jess, I fed California Natural once, good feed for the price, but unfortunately the protein and fat content was wayyy low for my Dobie, he would burn off 5cups a day of that feed like it was liquid smoke, and unfortunately the Natural Balance doesn't seem to hold him as it did once before. I think I'm going to use a local manufacturer here and get this feed he's been advertising for German Breeds.


----------



## Antonio1 (Apr 22, 2010)

I was out reading on Bil-Jac website, and they advertise 20lbs of fresh chicken used in a 30lb bag of dog food. And proudly insenuate this as the highest being used in the pet food industy. If they are such a crap company how come no other premium companies are challenging them on this advertising niche`. I'm curious to know.


----------



## GermanSheperdlover (Nov 15, 2009)

Antonio thats impossible it would ever hold together. Look whats in it

1.Chicken.. Great
2.Chicken By-Products = you know by-products is crap
3.Corn - and I know you know this is bad
4.Chicken By-Product Meal = again I am sure you know
5.Dried Beet Pulp = UGH

Look these websites are just used car salesman trying to sell thier products. If you don't think so go to Abady and read their crap. They say their food heals hip-dysplasia and bloat. I just hate that company for making that statement.


----------



## Antonio1 (Apr 22, 2010)

LOL @ Abany says their food heals hip dyplasia and bloat. While studies have not been done, it seems overfeeding and genetics are the primary cause for both of those disorders. I know Chicken By-Products are normally not considered of the highest quality, but I was wondering since the company says on their site that it's organ meat only if that made a difference?


----------



## GermanSheperdlover (Nov 15, 2009)

Nope you are wrong, hip dyplasia is a degenerative "disease". It can not be removed or healed in any way shape or form. Keeping a dog active and thin helps to a certain degree. But if you love your dog that should be done anyway. Bloat is a stomach issue and it can come out at anytime. I don't know that much about bloat but I know you can help contain it but it is still something that can not be totally controlled. You are correct over eating can bring it to the front quicker. Heavy exercise with in a hour before or after eating can also bring it out.
Wild dogs and wolfs will not eat the stomach or the intestines of their prey. Now if they were starving they will.
Hey did you go to this site? A guy on the forums put this link up.

http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=badingredients


----------



## GermanSheperdlover (Nov 15, 2009)

I just found this while I was searching for information about ethoxyquin. Heck ya learn something new everyday. 

Bloat. Feeding only one meal per day can cause the irritation of the esophagus by stomach acid, and appears to be associated with gastric dilitation and volvulus (canine bloat). Feeding two or more smaller meals is better.

http://www.bornfreeusa.org/facts.php?more=1&p=359


----------



## Antonio1 (Apr 22, 2010)

I found a good article about dog food in general, I'll post it here I'm not sure if there is a general discussion thread or not. http://www.woodhavenlabs.com/dogfoods.html


----------



## Michelle6 (Feb 12, 2010)

How can any educated person read the first 5 ingredients of Bil Jac and say anything good about it???This food would be better off sold to farmers to fatten their hogs or use for fertilizer!!!


----------



## Antonio1 (Apr 22, 2010)

I don't think anyone can conclude the rating of a product based on the 1st 5 ingredient theory, that basically says the other vitamins and mineral aren't essential. Also I don't know of many of the new small grain free food companies that do field trial feed testing which is essential for true working dog owners. I think a food must be evaluated based on better tested not some laboratory theory about what's good and bad for a canine.


----------



## Michelle6 (Feb 12, 2010)

Antonio,Okay lets look at the first 10 ingredients; 1 Fresh Chicken By Product Meal.I don't care how fresh it is,ITS STILL BY PRODUCTS!! 2 Fresh chicken Can't argue with that except to say that when the water is extracted the chicken would be much further down on the ingredient list. 3 Corn Dogs can't digest. 4 Chicken By Product Meal.By-Products Again?? Is their ANY real meat in this dog food?? 5 Dried beet pulp Beet Pulp is known to cause allergies and ear infections,Also it slows down the transition of animal fats causing stress to the kidneys and liver in the process!! 6 chicken liver. 7 Brewers Dried Yeast.Are we making bread or dog food?? 8 Cane Molasses contributes to yeast infections. 9 Eggs. 10 Salt.And the list goes on Menaione sodium bisulfate complex-Artificial vitamin K known carcinogen-cancer causing.Bha-artificial preservative known carcinogen.This product uses by products,low quality grains,and other controversial fillers,Also uses chemical Preservatives that are carcinogenic. I use the first 5 method because that is mostly what the food is made up of.But you are right you can't over-look the other ingredients either, Especially when they are this terrible.Your dog can't read you have to do it for them.Sure your dog might love this food, But dogs will drink ANTI-FREEZE and eat CHOCOLATE too!!!


----------



## Michelle6 (Feb 12, 2010)

Antonio,Your other comment about small grain free dog food companies not doing field trials, Merrick keeps dogs at their facility in Texas they do field trials and it is open to the public.Very nice facility!!They make high quality dog food.Check out their ingredient list for Before Grain dog food: 1 Chicken Deboned 2 Chicken Meal 3 Potato 4 Turkey meal 5 Canola oil 6 Sweet Potato 7 Natural Dried Chicken Liver 8 sea salt 9 Alfalfa 10 Salmon Oil.11 Acai berries 12 Blueberries.13 Yucca Schidigera Extract-A KNOWN CANCER FIGHTER!! And the list goes on all good stuff.NO By-Products.No fillers.No artificial colors or flavors.No artificial Preservatives.It is preserved with natural vitamin E.You can't argue with those ingredients.Hey don't just take my word for it check out their website.Just type in Merrick dog food or Before Grain.If you type in dog food ratings and reviews You can get educated on what should and should not be in your dogs food.Boxer World has a great website,Very informative!!


----------



## Antonio1 (Apr 22, 2010)

Michelle, I'm very familiar with Merrick products and my comment should have read MOST of the small grain free based companies do not include field trial testing in their procedures. I never stated that the grain free foods are bad, I just feel that to call companies that been around longer garbage is ludacris. And you are so harsh on Bil-Jac for using by-products in their formulas, but I see dried chicken liver in the Merrick ingredient list, isn't chicken liver considered a by-product when Bil-Jac uses it in their ingredient or does it only become a by-product when one of the not so great companies use it as part of their ingredient content?


----------



## Michelle6 (Feb 12, 2010)

Antonio,I am not the only person to give Bil Jac a bad review.Did you read the comments and the review at the top of this page done by the Administrator?You have to click on Bil Jac select to see the comments and read the review.Also Jess said this food is crap and I think she knows what she is talking about!!I really trust her opinion.Just because this dog food has been around for a long time doesn't make it a good brand.Every food is only as good as it's ingredient list!!!Did you read my previous post stating all of the ingredients?I mean I don't know how else I can convince People that this food is crap!!


----------



## Michelle6 (Feb 12, 2010)

Please click on older comments and read what Dr Bill DVM has to say about Bil Jac also scroll down to the bottom and you can read my old post from yesterday Where I went through the entire ingredient list and pointed out all of the crap!!


----------



## Antonio1 (Apr 22, 2010)

Michelle, 

Has any of those giving the bad reviews used this product before? Or are they simply piggy backing the comments on dog food analysis (which I personally think is a horrible site for rating dog food)? Because they simply put grain free foods at the top of the list, they do not actually test the products. Therefore I find no validation in their website. I can agree with you on many things, but I'm a person that like to dig the truth out of any situation, many people says dogs don't need grains they are not COWS I get that point. But can someone tell me why a dog needs a sweet potato or Irish potato anymore than he would need a grain since potato are also complex carbs? And no offense to Dr Bill I'm sure he has valuable information regarding animal health that I can learn from, but I really don't believe he has a understudy in Canine Nutrition therefore his opinion doesn't hold anymore weight than ours when it comes to the canine diet.


----------



## Antonio1 (Apr 22, 2010)

Also is organ meat (Dried Chicken Liver) a by-product or not? We can't have our cake and eat it too as the saying goes. If it's bad for one company then it's bad for the others.


----------



## Michelle6 (Feb 12, 2010)

Antonio,I googled chicken by product meal and this is the definition I got:It is made from grinding clean rendered parts of poultry carcass and can contain bones,offal,and underdeveloped eggs.But only contains feathers that are unavoidable in the processing of the poultry parts.Poultry By-Product meal quality and composition can change from one batch to another.It costs less than chicken muscle meat And lacks the digestability of chicken muscle meat.So in my opinion chicken liver is not a By-Product.It is an internal organ,I believe it is meat.I mean they sell cow liver in the grocery store in the meat department.I think they sell chicken liver there too.I personally don't like liver.But I'M sure alot of people,and dogs do.


----------



## Antonio1 (Apr 22, 2010)

I don't think chicken liver or gizzards are by-products either, as I come from a culture that has eaten both those things as human grade products. But my question is why is it so frowned upon when Bil-Jac states they use only organ meat in their Chicken by-products? Can we not take their words for it as face value? I mean we are taking the word of the other companies at face value that they are really using the ingredients they claim is in dog food.


----------



## Michelle6 (Feb 12, 2010)

I don't really have a problem with the chicken liver being in there.It is most of the other ingredients that cause my alarm.Corn,Dried beet pulp,cane molasses,BHA,Senthetic Vitamin K,Chemical Preservatives.Their just not good quality ingredients.


----------



## Antonio1 (Apr 22, 2010)

Chicken, Chicken By-Products (organs only, source of arginine), Corn Meal, Chicken By-Product Meal, Dried Beet Pulp, Brewers Dried Yeast, Oatmeal and Flaxseed.

Here's the ingredient list copied directly from the Bil-Jac website, feel free to check my source to make sure I'm honest in the copy/paste of the ingredients. But I don't see BHA used in the preservation here on the ingredient list, unless they just don't mention it. Also I hear so much controversy about beet pulp. Do you know what University conducted the study that said this was not a good fiber source? If so I would like a copy of that study so that I can see what controls were used in the process to make sure the test wasn't bias for some other pet food company. I think you are very knowledgable about pet food and I compliment on your study. But again how much do we seriously know about any of the pet food companies.


----------



## Antonio1 (Apr 22, 2010)

Also caned molasses is not mentioned on the ingredient list either


----------



## GermanSheperdlover (Nov 15, 2009)

First off I am a dude and an old dude at that. Secondly, Michelle you are correct and maybe I gave Antonio a to much credit. Chicken liver and gizzards are fine buuuut this is very small amount of the ingredients in this food.

1.Chicken .OK, but it really is No. 5
2.Chicken By-Products (Organs only, Including Chicken Liver) How can I explain this to you any clearer, IT IS A LIE, by-products are the worst.
3.Corn, DUH, flat out bad dogs can't digest corn PERIOD!!!!
4.Chicken By-Product Meal, HERE we go again
5.Dried Beet Pulp. This is just the hulls of whats left over from making sugar DAMN sugar it self is bad for dogs so this is twice as bad.

I WOULD NEVER AND I MEAN NEVER FEED MY DOG WITH BHA IN IT. It is a posion!!!

Dude, go check this forum out!!! Get educated...You are getting old.

http://dogfoodchat.com/forum/


----------



## GermanSheperdlover (Nov 15, 2009)

By the way Michelle I totally disagree with you. Where does DFA have any dog food with grain in it in their 6 star ratings? In fact California Natural is full of brown rice and I think it is a fantastic dog food. Don't get me wrong, just trying to make a point.



http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/dog_food_reviews/showcat.php/cat/8


----------



## Michelle6 (Feb 12, 2010)

Jess,Sorry for calling you a lady MY BAD!!ANYWAY you really know what you are talking about!! I really appreciate how knowledgeable you are!!Thanks for the info DUDE!!!


----------



## Michelle6 (Feb 12, 2010)

Jess,I don't recall mentioning DFA or 6* foods with grain in them maybe that was someone else?? Some really good foods have some high quality grains in them I don't have a problem with that,just not for my Lab!!


----------



## Antonio1 (Apr 22, 2010)

Jess, 

I don't need your credit or anyone else on this forum, b/c like my opinions yours are just that idealistic and opionionated. I mean do you have pHD in canine nutrition? If you do,, please email me a copy [email protected] I'll be more than happy to accept some of your idea as truth from that point if you. But if not then I assume you are like the million of other internet experts. Heck a person can blabber anything over the internet and if you get enough people enthusiastic about it, then someone a myth will become truth  While I do feel that you have some valuable information, I cannot base my sole opinion based on your experiences or ideas. I think my dog eats a pretty decent diet, so I guess I'm purely here to help those who are seeking knowledge, but I just warn against them listening to the (online experts) and ask they do their own research and trial & error and find what works for their budget and their dog. One thing I do agree on is that Bil-Jac is overpriced as well as a few others that I personally use like Innova, Natural Balance, and Pro Plan they are all over priced considered the process used to make all of this crap is pretty cheap. And yes I have visited a animal feed manufacturing facility here in my state. But NO, I have never saw the inside of a rendering plant as the facility in my state by their chicken meal from a different location which is the same thing done by the majority of manufactures.


----------



## Michelle6 (Feb 12, 2010)

Antonio, I got the list of ingredients for Bil Jac select from DFA As of today its still posted there with no updates.I went to Bil Jac's website it did not offer the total list only the first few ingredients.


----------



## Antonio1 (Apr 22, 2010)

Michelle, 

How often is DFA updated? Again, understand my stance in no way I'm I saying that you guys are not feeding good feed. I'm only saying that what works for one dog doesn't always agree for the next. And to call certain feeds garbage just b/c you don't agree with them is not right. Is there scientific proof that feeding grainless makes a dog live any longer as oppose to feeding Bil-Jac?


----------



## Antonio1 (Apr 22, 2010)

Another thing I wanted to point out to my experts here on the panel. How many of you truly believe that Human grade ingredients are going into those bags of feeds we buy? I hope no one on here truly believes that crap. Reason being if the meat products used in animal food was human grade it would be stamped saying so. It would read (USDA approved) and it would tell what grade the meat actually is. But since the (human-grade) term can be used as a slight of wording that's why many of them choose to put (human-grade) on the bag. That doesn't mean the meat itself is really human grade it simply means that the meat (most likely chicken backs) came from the by-products of a human grade meat facility after the choice cuts have been made. Which at the end of the day would still technically be a glorified by-product.


----------



## Michelle6 (Feb 12, 2010)

Antonio,My 5 year old full blooded Lab got fatty tumors on her belly last year. She was raised from a puppy on Purina One,I was not educated on dog food at that time!!I figured that company's been around for like 100 years or so,like they advertise their slogan is "second to none"that dog food is very low grade!!By products,low quality grains,and synthetic vitamin K!!!ANYWAY,My vet was a little shocked to see these fatty tumors in such a young dog,he said these usually appear in much older dogs.He recommended a higher quality food,and surgery.The tumors were removed-a little over 600 dollars!!Then I switched her to Natures Recipe,silly me still uneducated!!They use higher quality grain,Pearled Barley,Rice.But they also use synthetic vitamin K.Well needless to say the tumors are back,still on her belly but in different places than before small fatty tumors!!So now I have been forced to get my head out of my ass,And really pay attention to whats in her food!!It is a proven fact that grain can cause these fatty tumors!!That's why I have decided to go grain free with Before Grain by Merrick!! I am going to try a product called Nu Vet Plus,its about 55 dollars for a three months supply.It is a lot cheaper that surgery!! I will try it first to see if it works.If not I will have to do the surgery again,really don't want to have to put my baby through that again!!My four year old son missed her terribly,He couldn't take his afternoon nap without her,he sleeps with his head on her chest.She usually sleeps too,but if she wakes up she won't move until he wakes up!!He is her baby too!!I have been researching fatty tumors and all the evidence points to grain.Any info that any one has would be appreciated!!


----------



## Antonio1 (Apr 22, 2010)

Michelle, 

As I stated a million times, every dog is different as far as dietary needs and tolerances are concerned. Have you checked the pedigree on your lab to find out if the tumors are common in that particular lineage? But I don't know a lot about that particular health problem, so I would have to find some time at one of the Universities to sign up for that course, it was hard enough finding a Veterinary college that would let me take classes on Nutrition as I have no plans of joining that field, not to mention the cost. But I agree some dogs do better without the grains in their diet while some breeds tend to do better on a grain inclusive diet. Take my Doberman for instance on the grain free diets he lacks energy, get a bit lethargic and commonly gets the runs and before anyone make the comment (NO I DON'T OVERFEED HIM ON THE GRAIN-FREE FORMULAS), but I've found that he is better balanced on what I refer to as middle of the road type feeds that are grain inclusive. So a strict grain free diet for him would not be a option.


----------



## Michelle6 (Feb 12, 2010)

Antonio,If you are interested I would invite you to research Fatty Tumors before jumping to conclusions that is always a genetic pre-disposition!! I should have called my breeder when this first occured,but I must have been having a blonde moment!! I called her last month to inquire about the tumors she said she had not run into that problem in any of the dogs in my particular lineage.She had gone grain free about 3 years ago.She said she did have a 14 year old Lab who had that problem,but we checked and not a part of my dogs bloodline.She sends all her puppies home with grain free food and thats all she recommends.By the way the old dog who had the tumors passed away before she went grain free. I understand that grain free is not an option for every dog.As long as they are high quality grains I don't have a problem with that. But even on the higher quality grains my dog still developed this problem,for some dogs grain free is just a better option.I have only started her on grain free in the past month,I will have to either dissolve the tumors with medication or eradicate them with surgery,feed grain free for a year and see if they return,witch I doubt they will.I guess only time will prove me right or wrong!!


----------



## Antonio1 (Apr 22, 2010)

You are absolutely right Michelle. We any feed whether it be grain-free or grain-inclusive, switching the diet around (unless the dog has allergies to many agents) is a good idea. I do it constantly with my dog. Strange enough certain grain free formulas will make my Doberman develop hot spots which I find highly strange since the grain-free I would think should prevent that. But hey all dogs are indeed different, I think the food you feed is a decent kibble, I also believe the foods I use are decent. I think as long as the individual finds what works for their dog's dietary needs and tolerances then that is the right food for them. And there may be strong evidence to support fatty tumors being caused by grains in the diet, I just have not personally ran across that problem yet. I think you and Jess both have true passion and concern, but I think you have to consider certain facts that all dogs just don't tolerate the new grain-free potato starch based diets that well.


----------



## GermanSheperdlover (Nov 15, 2009)

I did not feed this nor will I ever feed this to my dog, but I did make the mistake of feeding Pedigree to my last GSD and he had tumors that killed him (I had to put him down). They related the tumors to his food. I guess once this happens to you, you never look at dog food the same way again. It really bothers me that it is so easy to get educated about the ingedients in dog foods "NOW", and that some people don't take the 1 or 2 hours it takes to learn about these things.
Look I don't have a issue with grain I have issues with most of the crap in this food,,-Corn,Chicken By-Product Meal,Dried Beet Pulp, Cane Molasses and to top it off they use BHA which is a posion...

Chicken, Chicken By-Products (Organs only, Including Chicken Liver), Corn, Chicken By-Product Meal, Dried Beet Pulp, Brewers Dried Yeast, Cane Molasses, Egg Product, Salt, Sodium Propionate (a preservative), DL-Methionine, L-Lysine, Vitamin A Acetate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement, Niacin, Biotin, Choline Chloride, Folic Acid, Thiamine Mononitrate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B6), Ascorbic Acid, Vitamin B12 Supplement, D-Calcium Pantothenate, Manganous Oxide, Inositol, BHA (a preservative), Ferrous Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Cobalt Carbonate, Potassium Iodine, Sodium Selenite.
Bil Jac Puppy Dog Food also use BHA as an ingredient in dog food. This is an ingredients that has been proved to cause cancer in lab rats and has been banned from use in Australia and Japan.

IF YOU WANNA GO TO BAT FOR THIS SH&T BE MY GUEST. MAKE THE SAME MISTAKE I DID AND WHEN YOU HAVE TO PUT DOWN YOUR DOG I HOPE YOU FEEL GOOD, BECAUSE IT WILL BE YOUR FAULT, BECAUSE YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!!!! I AM DONE!!! I found this on another message board------

Two rules of thumb for ANY message board: 
1. Don't argue with an idiot; people watching may not be able to tell the difference. 
2. Mud wrestling with pigs - Don't do it, because you never win, and eventually you realize the pig enjoys it.


----------



## Antonio1 (Apr 22, 2010)

Jess I thank you, and your name calling only proves who the real idiot of this blog is. Also that ingredient list that you guys keep showing is that the latest ingredient list available b/c it's not on their website? Also your dog got tumors, you say it's all related to the food maybe it was, maybe it wasn't I'm not your vet and I wasn't there. Since food is the only cause I guess that's why my neighbors Rottweiler that ate taste of the wild was recently put down for same reason as your GSD? And you said a person can become educated reading (OPINIONS) from other uneducated sources by spending 1-2 hours a day online, dude get real and get some real education. Everyone knows that if your not certified on a subject then your definately not the expert that you think you are. So don't bash people if they choose to feed Bil-Jac, sorry about your dog though.


----------



## Antonio1 (Apr 22, 2010)

Jess not to keep calling you out on this post but since your comments seem to hint that I'm some idiot, DO YOU EVEN KNOW WHAT RENDERING PLANT the Protein meals in your pet food come from?


----------



## Antonio1 (Apr 22, 2010)

Here's some information I obtain about AAFCO's terminology to prove my point that none of these kibbles are the premium cuts these companies would have you believe. That's why i stand strong on the statement if it works for your dog then it's good for that dog. 

In the United States, dog foods labeled as "complete and balanced" must meet standards established by the Association of American Feed Control Officials (AAFCO) either by meeting a nutrient profile or by passing a feeding trial. The Dog Food Nutrient Profiles were last updated in 1995 by the AAFCO's Canine Nutrition Expert Subcommittee. The updated profiles replaced the previous recommendations set by the National Research Council (NRC).

Critics argue that due to the limitations of the trial and the gaps in knowledge within animal nutrition science, the term "complete and balanced" is inaccurate and even deceptive. An AAFCO panel expert has stated that "although the AAFCO profiles are better than nothing, they provide false securities."[19]

Certain manufacturers label their products with terms such as premium, ultra premium, natural and holistic. Such terms currently have no legal definitions. There are also varieties of dog food labeled as "human-grade food". Although no official definition of this term exists, the assumption is that other brands use foods that would not pass US Food and Drug Administration inspection according to the Pure Food and Drug Act or the Meat Inspection Act.

The ingredients on the label must be listed in descending order by weight.


----------



## Michelle6 (Feb 12, 2010)

Jess I totally agree with you about the food causing tumors, I am sorry for your loss,Don't blame yourself we have all been duped by these dog food companies!! Not to sound like Forrest Gump but MY mother always says "When You Know Better , You Do Better !! And I always take that to mean if you know better and you still do the wrong thing then SHAME ON YOU.She also says the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting Different results!! I don't know about you but I think she is one smart Lady!!


----------



## Michelle6 (Feb 12, 2010)

Jess, your last post made me a little teary-eyed,but then it made me laugh my ass off!! YOU ARE ONE SMART DUDE!!!


----------



## Rena1 (Feb 17, 2010)

I fed this to my dog for about a year. He is a big 95 lb collie/malamute mix (or was, at the time). He has always been a finicky eater but someone gave me a sample of this and he loved it-- and continued to love it the entire year he ate it. Loved it soooo much he gained 10 lbs despite following feeding guidelines and getting tons of exercise. During this time he had 3 UTI's and the vet attributed it to his diet. I took him off and started him on a different diet. This was 8 years ago-- he has since had 2 UTI's so it is hard to say whether or not the food is to blame, though the frequency of them while on Bil Jac is curious.


----------



## cyberfrance (Feb 21, 2010)

I love Bil Jac products. I love the treats because my dogs love them. They are by far the best of the training treats I've tried. I went to Petsmart to pick up a bag of Blue Buffalo based on the ratings. Well, my dogs WILL NOT EAT IT! So, I returned it. I have tried so many "premium" dog foods that failed the taste test.

Well, I approached the Petsmart dog trainer and asked what she recommended. I have 2 Corgis and an Aussie sheepdog. All of them are high shedding dogs. She recommended that I try the Bil Jac line of dried foods. I purchased the Reduced Fat and it was a huge hit! So, I will be using it along with other fresh foods until further notice. I'm sick of specialty foods that I pay an arm and a leg for that sit in their dishes for days. Waste of time and money.


----------



## Dawn6 (Feb 27, 2010)

Hi Jess...My GSD has a couple of small fatty tumors now. I wanted to know what you recommend feeding or what you feed your dog/dogs? Thanks.


----------



## GermanSheperdlover (Nov 15, 2009)

Dawn, keep your dog active GSD's need to be active and thin, not skinny, you can't believe how many fat GSD's I see and all I think about is hip dysplsia. I feed a kinda of crazy diet, Fromm duck and California Natural in the AM and Orijen and Taste of the Wild wetlands at night. When the C.N. is gone I won't be buying anymore. Orijen is the best in my book followed by Evo. But here is alist of foods I like
Artemis*
Blue Wilderness*
Go
Horizon*
Evo**** 
Innova**
Instinct**
Orijen*****
Taste of the Wild**
Wellness
Acana***
Fromm*
Merrick
Canidae
Evanders
Earthborn
Natures Variety
Natures logic
Solidgold
Pinnacle
Timberwolf
Blue Buffalo
Halo
California Natural**
Healthwise**
Karma**


----------



## GermanSheperdlover (Nov 15, 2009)

Dawn how old is your GSD? Remember when u change food do it slowly so you don't shock their system. It sounds like I might recommend C.N. to you. How active is your dog? These are all factors. But GSD's do not do good with ""corn"" in their diet nor do they do good with Beet pulp, by products or Cane Molasses, if he is on this stuff I would get him onto a good food right away.


----------



## Dawn6 (Feb 27, 2010)

Hi Jess...I have been watching your comments on good quality food. You seem to be the one with the most information and I appreciate you for that. My GSD is 9 now. She is currently on Hills K/D which was of course recommended from my vet...blah. It does nothing for her coat, dandruff or itching. She is not overweight and is active. We live in the country and she gets alot of farmette active activities. I just don't want her to have this quality of life any longer. I checked your recommendation on Orijen and it seems that in my small town area, I would have to order it online. What place would you recommend me purchasing this product. Also I have cats that I'm sure would benefit from this food. Thanks for your input, Dawn


----------



## Dawn6 (Feb 27, 2010)

Also, she is a german import. Her father is 4th in the world for tracking. I really want to keep her joints, hips & senses in touch with her instincts as long as possibly! I have felt for the last 9 years I was wrong. Her amazing breeder had me have her on a powdered type order only food for her first year and she did not like it at all. It was soooo dry and hard for her to eat wet or dry. (forgive me for not being able to remember the name). I don't think this food helped or hert her.


----------



## GermanSheperdlover (Nov 15, 2009)

I buy every so often from k9cuisine they are pretty darn fast. Annnd if you spend 50 bucks, you get 10 free samples. I just love that and it is how I found out my dog loves duck. Up in the top right cornor of their site it says free stuff. Also don't be bashful on getting her some Glucosamine and Chondroitin for her hips. You can get it in powder form or in treats.

http://www.k9cuisine.com/


----------



## GermanSheperdlover (Nov 15, 2009)

PS. hillis is bad bad bad. I could not find the ingredients for the GS so I copied and pasted the adult formula. Brewers rice is a very very low quaitity grain. Corn gluten meal is flat out bad for dogs. Dried beet pulp is a filler and used to keep dogs stools firm, rotten crap. They use way to much salt. Annnd their is ethoxyquin in this food (poison).


Chicken, brewers rice, chicken meal, brown rice, corn gluten meal, oatmeal, chicken fat, natural chicken flavor, dried beet pulp (sugar removed), dried brewers yeast, salmon oil, soya oil, potassium chloride, salt, flaxseed, DL-methionine, choline chloride, sodium tripolyphosphate, Vitamins [dl-alpha tocopherol acetate (source of vitamin E), L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (source of vitamin C*), biotin, d-calcium pantothenate, niacin supplement, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), vitamin A acetate, vitamin D3 supplement, thiamine mononitrate (vitamin B1), vitamin B12 supplement, riboflavin supplement (vitamin B2), folic acid], salmon meal, dried egg powder, magnesium oxide, Trace Minerals [zinc proteinate, zinc oxide, ferrous sulfate, copper proteinate, copper sulfate, manganese proteinate, manganous oxide, sodium selenite, calcium iodate], marigold extract (Tagetes erecta L.), L-carnitine, preserved with natural mixed tocopherols, rosemary extract, and citric acid.


----------



## Dawn6 (Feb 27, 2010)

Jess...you have been wonderful! I actually just got online and purchased the Orijen senior and the Orijen cat food as well. Years ago I lost a cat to crystals and a dog that had cysts problems. So many people have different opinions, but I'm looking for the best, not the cheapest. I cannot believe how many folks are driven by price. When I want a steak I buy porterhouse, not hoof! I hope this works and please give me your email address so I can continue talking with you. Mine is [email protected]
Let me know what you think of the Orijen Senior and the Orijen Cat that I just purchased...and I always remember to adjust them smoothly as to not upset them. I will also keep you posted on their progress and send you pics of my Red/Black GSD Princess!


----------



## Dawn6 (Feb 27, 2010)

Oh..one more thing. My 1 1/2 yr. old flame point cat has just been diagnosed with asthma! They told me it's only the 3rd case they have ever seen and he has an inhaler for attachs. I believe it has something to do with his food and not his body or surroundings. I can't wait to see how he may do on Orijen. He of course is on Hills I/d mixed with c/d....Blah again from the vet!


----------



## GermanSheperdlover (Nov 15, 2009)

I do not have a cat, but I like them and I read somewhere last week that Orijen cat food is by far the best made today. To be honest I have done no research on cats. I just know they like fish, LOL. I would guess corn, wheat, soy and the rest of the crap in these cat foods can cause the same problems as they do to dogs.
Go sloooow with the new food or she will get bad poo. I started out with a tablespoon and then about every 3rd day I added another spoon full until he was 100%. My dog can handle most foods pretty well so it isn't a problem with him. But this is gonna be a HUGE change for your dog. GSD'S HAVE VERY SENSITIVE STOMACH'S. I just can't wait to hear what you say about her coat. Be patient
It's sad but most Vet's really have no clue about food or they have been bought off by these manufactures. I'll tell ya, Michelle also knows her stuff and so does Antonino, Antonino just likes to argue(jab,lol) because he knows whats good and whats bad.


----------



## Dawn6 (Feb 27, 2010)

Well...to all, I have found a site to order from and that is easier indeed! I'm excited to have my GSD feel relief from excessive shedding and dandruff. Her coat is shiney,but sadly im sure her insides aren't. It's folks like you all that help me reverse the easy "Vet" habits. But I had fed Iams, Hills and Bill Jac, so I'm an ass for my gullability. I have had horses, cats, dogs since i've been small. It seems the Horses got the best nutrition and everything trickled down from there. I feel like crap about settling! But Hey...everything from now on is different and I thank you all for that. Fondly, Dawn


----------



## Michelle6 (Feb 12, 2010)

Dawn, Don't beat yourself up about feeding crappie dog and cat foods!!We have all done it in the past,But now that we know better we have all changed that. Now that you have changed their foods their little bodies will have the right nutrition to heal themselves.So now you can really feel good about filling their bowls!!Good Luck!! Michelle


----------



## GermanSheperdlover (Nov 15, 2009)

Dawn I forgot, below is a link to my favorite site. But beware many posters there have no knowledge of good food and my favorite part is the pictures pictures pictures. And I post as 3ToesTonyismydog.. The forums is on the left side.

http://www.germanshepherds.com/

And my favorite picture is the third one down

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/pictures-pictures-pictures/131257-last-up-date-quenn-gina-pups-7-weeks-old.html


----------



## TY (Mar 2, 2010)

Whats up Jess, I seen that you help out Dawn and was wondering if you could give me some advice. I have a American BT, she is 1yrs old and I been feeding her Bil-Jac and have not notice any problems....yet. My Vet recommended that I use Iams when I first adopted her at 8 weeks, I read the label compared it to Bil jac and thought I made a great choice in buying Bil Jac. Ive read many of your comments and I want the best for my dog, my children love her. If you have time Jess, can you tell what dog food I should be feeding my American BT and why, I need to be educated on dog food, cause my dog would not eat Iams.Please forgive any typos, I have very bad eye sight.


----------



## GermanSheperdlover (Nov 15, 2009)

Let me say first you to stay away from any product that has corn, wheat, soy, by products or glutens in them. I try to keep fish meal to a minimum, because it is VERY hard to find a product that doesn't buy from a supplier who uses ethoxyuin in it. The US Coast Guard reguires all fishermen to use it. I guess you talking about a American bull terrier? Dawn has a German Shepherd and I have ownned 5 and I now have my 6th. So I feel I know a little about Large breed dogs. I have never owned one but neverless would recommend one of these brands. All dogs are different and some don't do good on one brand or another. If you change brands then you should do it very slowly, slower the better. The more stars the better food in my book.

Go
Horizon*
Evo***** 
Innova***
Instinct**
Orijen******
Taste of the Wild**
Wellness
Acana****
Fromm***
Blue Wilderness*
Merrick*
Canidae
Evanders
Earthborn
Natures Variety
Natures logic
Solidgold
Pinnacle
Timberwolf
Blue Buffalo
Halo
California Natural**
Healthwise***
Karma***


----------



## GermanSheperdlover (Nov 15, 2009)

TY, I also believe this site and their rater are pretty darn good, the ratings are also pretty close. But go to the link below and feel very confident about feeding a 5 or 6 star food.

http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/dog_food_reviews/


----------



## Michelle6 (Feb 12, 2010)

TY I totally agree with Jess,but you said you needed to be educated so you might not know - You will not find any of the foods that Jess listed in the grocery store.You will have to go to a pet store,I would go to a Independently owned pet store-not a big chain. Also I would refine his list a little every Food he listed is good but I trust the ones that manufacture their own products more because they are hardly ever recalled,In the last big recall back in 2007 all of the premium brands that were manufactured by someone else were included in that recall. Here is a list of companies that manufacture their own products most of them are family owned and operated. Champion Foods they make Orijen and Ancana. Merrick pet care they make Before Grain and Whole Earth farms. Fromm Family they make Fromm. Natura Pet they make Evo - Innova-Karma-Califonia Natural. I would trust any of these for my dog.


----------



## Dawn6 (Feb 27, 2010)

Hi there! I ordered my Orijen from doggiefood.com. Orijen Senior for my GSD was $59.99 for 29.7lbs. The Orijen Cat was $45.99 for 15.4lbs. They are out of the Orijen Regional Red, but there is a # you can call to inquire. They also had a code for another 13% off my order! We also have a family owned grain + feed store that carries TOTW (taste of the wild) small amounts of that that will go into rotation for both the Cats & my GSD. She is 9 now and I went with the Orijen sr. because of that. JESS-Thanks a million for all the great info and I did favorite and sign up on the site you recommended! Check out Kiza Marie...she is my gorgeous black/red GSD. I love you all for your help.


----------



## Dawn6 (Feb 27, 2010)

Oh...and TY, both of the foods I choose are on the website Jess gave you: dogfoodanalysis.com list as the highest rated foods- 6stars. You can do what I did and check out a Superb local food and then buy Orijen online. I'm almost giddy knowing I'm doing my best for my loved ones health!


----------



## GermanSheperdlover (Nov 15, 2009)

Dawn, remember to go slow with the change(see post above). Just don't throw down a big bowl full.


----------



## SaltyDog (Mar 10, 2010)

I would take a good 14 to 21 days to adjust your dog to Orijen.


----------



## GermanSheperdlover (Nov 15, 2009)

Acana is pretty darn good food also. And since you like to spoil your dogs with little treats of goodness, like eggs and meat, you might as well go with Acana. Little easier on the pocket book.

Tony is quite the character, just a big hit whereever I take him. Then his coat really gets them asking ??????'s


----------



## Antonio1 (Apr 22, 2010)

Jess how much does the Orijen cost for the large bag over on the westcoat? I'm thinking of trying it in my rotation, unfortunately it's a bit expensive having it shipped here in my location.


----------



## GermanSheperdlover (Nov 15, 2009)

I can't remember, I think it's about 52-55 a bag, now the red is really spendy and I just buy small bags of that. We have a store in Edmonds that really has good prices. We are pretty lucky to have this store, but I think it is just a supply and demand thing. A lot of very well off people in what they call the Edmonds Bowl and a little town called Woodway. Woodway is for the very wealthy, big time, old money. And of course they have to have the best. So a lot of sales of Orijen at that dog store. But you talk about snobs. Have you thought about Acana? I don't know what the cost difference is. I gotta tell ya there is a big difference in price from one store to another out here, so you gotta shop. Up to 10 bucks a bag here. I called about 15 places before I found this place and they were much cheaper. You well really like it and you WILL notice a difference in his coat. Takes about 2 weeks because if you go to fast,,,,the runs.


----------



## Antonio1 (Apr 22, 2010)

I wouldn't mind $52-55 or so that your paying, but so far the only chance I have of getting it min price has been about $73 or so. I think at that point I would stop being lazy and just buy chicken and cook it for the dog right. I was actually looking at the regional red formula, but if it's expensive over by you, I can only imagine the cost of it here.


----------



## GermanSheperdlover (Nov 15, 2009)

Dawn got it for 59 on line. I don't know if that included tax and shipping. Wow, 73 ??, I just bought a bag of Red for 71. I don't use much red, 1-1 1/2 cups a day, so it will last me awhile. I break the big bag down into little bags and store it in an old frig we have. I do not freeze it, which I know is bad for kibble. The cost is why I also feed Taste of the Wild and I was looking at Healthwise today, it is only 40 bucks for 30 lbs, I think that might be a good deal. I am gonna look into Healthwise. I could be getting a small bag to see if he likes that. I think I am gonna drop the Fromm, it is 57 bucks a bag, which is more that Orijen.


----------



## GermanSheperdlover (Nov 15, 2009)

Looks like it (Healthwise) isn't bad and heck that was a 35 lb bag. A little grainy, but I think I might get a little bag next week. I feed him a little bit of the grain food in the AM and I want to drop CN and the overprised Fromm. The Fromm I can only get at one place within 50 miles of where I live.


----------



## Antonio1 (Apr 22, 2010)

I've used Healthwise, it's comparable to California Natural just a little more grains than the Natural, it wasn't bad at all. I guess I'm looking for a new feed to into my Dobie's diet. He's on a 4 brand rotation currently I plan to drop a brand and into a new one. I'm a firm believer in rotation it adds variety and essential things that might not be available when using only one blend. I don't have access to a lot of the feed here that you have access to there, unless I order online and I try to stear away from the online ordering a bit after one company was charging my card w/o my permission sending food.


----------



## Dawn6 (Feb 27, 2010)

The adjustment is going well with the Orijen and TOTW conversion on my Dogs & Cats. It is a slow process, but the Orijen & TOTW has all of them loving their food!!! I just have to keep a special eye on my GSD. She is 9 and has been on grain based until now. She my need a little intwined with her mix...but if I can totally get her on these other 2 premiums without having to I will be more comfortable. Thanks to all here!!!


----------



## Michelle6 (Feb 12, 2010)

It should say 20lbs of Chicken by products used to make 30lbs of food lol... http://www.bil-jac.com/ Hey Bil-Jac my dog deserves better than feathers,beaks,feet,manure,Chicken heads...how about some REAL MEAT???


----------



## GermanSheperdlover (Nov 15, 2009)

What a bunch of crap on that site kinda reminds me of Abady.......


Bil-Jac provides a specific balance of amino acids - unique to our brand - based on our blend of fresh chicken, fresh chicken organs, and other healthy ingredients. Our Nutrient Protection Technology gently pasteurizes the chicken, protecting the heat sensitive amino acids that are often damaged in competitors’ high-heat "extrusion" process. These heat sensitive amino acids are essential to your dog's health.


----------



## Antonio1 (Apr 22, 2010)

Does anyone know if Bil-Jac really uses 20lbs of chicken for a 30lb bag? I'm curious b/c I would figure if that statement is false then other companies would have quickly pointed it out by now.


----------



## Michelle6 (Feb 12, 2010)

Antonio-Bil-Jac is a very low grade dog food with a high price tag-you would be a lot better off getting Fromm for your dog.I can get a 15lb bag of Gold nutritionals for 23 dollars in my area....The 30lb bag is around 40 dollars.


----------



## Antonio1 (Apr 22, 2010)

Michelle, you are living in a dog food Utopia w/ those prices. Man here in Arkansas if it's not manufactured by Diamond or Arkat, then the price tag is generally high. I would like to try Fromm, but no matter where I get it I will have to have it shipped. I've tried Bil-Jac before, the only problems I had with it was I hate all the dust (from kibble break-down) that was left in the large bags, and also I found my dogs having to go outside for potty breaks (#2) more often than they normally would even while feeding less. Otherwise there wasn't any problems, but those issues bothered me more than it did my dogs so I excluded it from my dogs diet about a year or so ago.


----------



## Scott7 (Nov 7, 2010)

It looks like the Bil-Jac ingredients really are what they say they are. If anyone has any facts to the contrary, I'd be interested; but I don't see any here on this chat page.

Here's a FAQ from Bil-Jac at http://www.bil-jac.com/faq.php#Q6

Q: What are "chicken by-products?"

A: We cannot speak for other manufacturers, but no one controls their ingredient sources as closely as Bil-Jac. We use only fresh chicken organ meat, which is naturally nutritious (see the ingredients list on our bags). Wild carnivores eat the organ meat first because their instincts tell them it is the most nutritious source of protein. It is no different for your domesticated dog. At Bil-Jac we've studied nutrition for more than 60 years, and we carefully blend our ingredients for optimal nutrition. Bil-Jac's fresh chicken by-products do not contain heads, feet or feathers-only nutritious chicken organ meat.


----------



## themamulas (Jan 10, 2011)

I used to work at a kennel that fed Bil-Jac so i am very familiar with it. I have to say i am not impressed and will NEVER feed this food. The kibble is very powdery and would get caught in the back of dogs throats, causing them to hack and drink a lot of water. It also gets caked together and stuck in their teeth. Dog's do seem to enjoy the taste though. So much so that a few started eating their feces. I am not sure if it was causing digestive problems, but several of the dogs could not hold their weight on this food and got very thin.


----------



## Amanda9 (May 24, 2011)

My dog loved the taste of Bil-Jac, but after her vet told us the culprit of her urinary tract infection was the food we were feeding her, we immediately stopped. He also told us that he had been seeing several dogs a month, on Bil-Jac, coming in with UTIs (We're all probably getting it from the same store!) I am very disappointed because there is a Bil-Jac rep at my local pet store who really talked it up. Do not buy this product.


----------



## Alan1 (May 30, 2011)

Just purchased some Bil-Jac for our dogs yesterday. They absolutely love it...I put some on the bottom of the bowl and put their old food on top and they dug down to the Bil-Jac. So far I think it's great!
I know vets are always selling Science Diet...but hey, they get paid to sell it.
I bet if Bil-Jac paid them to sell it, they would be pushing it too.


----------



## elma_kendall (Jun 1, 2011)

MY DOG IS AN 10 POUND SHORKY.HE LOVES LITTLE JAC LIVER TREATES, BUT REFUSES TO EAT ANY FOOD. IS THERE A FOOD OUT THERE THAT IS CLOSESTS TO THE LIVER TREATS HE LOVES SO MUCH THANK YOU


----------



## Rose4 (Jun 21, 2011)

I have a rare breed 9 month old Coton deTulear. Her breeder feeds her champion dogs Bil Jac because of the high chicken content and I was determined to continue using this food for my dog. Unfortunately, but within a few months my puppy started snubbing the food. It was dusty when dry and when I added liquid it became a mushy mess.

The only way I could get my puppy to finish her bag of BilJac was to mix it with Wellness Just for Puppy canned food. Bil Jac was also hard to find locally and not worth the time and money to hunt for. We have disconinued Bil Jac. Although Bil Jac dog food did not work out for our dog, she LOVES Bil Jac training treats.

Our Coton now enjoys Wellness canned food every evening and Blue Buffalo dry food in the mornings. She is active and happy. No potty issues and she has a beautiful soft coat.


----------



## Sheba (Jun 30, 2011)

My dog loves Bil Jac I thinks its more natural then most I feed the frozen I have never used the kibble I was thinking about trying the BARF diet to change it up a bit


----------



## mumsiegirl (Oct 13, 2011)

I gave my dog Bil-Jac and he loves it. It's a little too pricey for me, so I mix it in with his regular dry food. That way he's still getting a lot of the benefits it has to offer, but it doesn't empty my wallet!


----------



## Michelle6 (Feb 12, 2010)

mumsiegirl,are you daft? Have you read the review at the top of this page? Why are you singing the praises of BilJac when it has so many bad ingredients? FYI- high price tag does not = quality food.... Here is an excerpt from the review above. Other controversial ingredients include dried beet pulp which is a high-fiber ingredient but is considered by many as an inexpensive dog food filler, and BHA, a synthetic food preservative. Brewer’s dried yeast is rich in protein but critics link yeast to dog allergies.

There is no mention of the addition of probiotics and chelated minerals.

Customer Reviews

Dog owners share different opinions of Bil-Jac dog food formulas.

Although many dog owners report how their dogs seem to do well with Bil-Jac’s formulas, some resent the addition of corn meal as the main source of carbohydrate in the ration. There are also reports of food-based allergies which many dog owners attribute to corn and to a lesser extent, chicken.

Overall, we would not recommend Bil Jac and believe that there are many better dog food brands for your dog.


----------



## Michelle6 (Feb 12, 2010)

Jess, what up dude? Where the heck have you been? It's good to see you on here.  Yeah, you know me, I never give up on these people. lol


----------



## Ellen3 (Oct 15, 2011)

Jess and Michelle, 

Maybe some people don't believe everything they read. I tried Natural Balance and Origen all of those yuppie dog foods touted by dog food "experts" (by the way who in the heck would ever want to be a dog food expert). I convinced myself that I was doing right by my dog by buying all of these brands and yet she refused to eat them, and when she did, she would have horrible diarrhea and low energy. When I finally admitted to myself that I had been duped, I started her on Bil Jac, the difference was immediate. Her digestion has never been more regular, and her energy level has skyrocketed. 

You can go ahead and believe whatever you read on the internet, but I'm going with what works for my little Tulip, and Bil Jac has significantly improved her quality of life.


----------



## GermanSheperdlover (Nov 15, 2009)

I won't be here much. Tony was attacked for the THRID time by unleashed pitbulls. I am really getting sick of these dogs. They have been banned from most off leash parks in my area and for good reason.


----------



## Antonio1 (Apr 22, 2010)

Jess, 

How are things going? I asked about you on this blog and another called DogFoodAdvisor. Hope all is going well, it's unfortunate that Tony seems to keep getting attacked, sound like you guys need better dog laws up there to force the owners to be more responsible. I'm actually thinking about getting a working bred Pit Bull and add to my household as I want to compete w/ the Pit Bull in Schutzhund. You don't see many Pit Bull owners doing this and it's something I want to pursue as I know that Pit Bulls are capable of this kind of work.


----------



## Michelle6 (Feb 12, 2010)

Hey Jess, you should start carrying pepper spray with you.  I use the one manufactured by Cold Steel, I got it at a gun shop. It has stopped every dog that came charging at me and my two dogs, and sent them running back home.


----------



## Michelle6 (Feb 12, 2010)

Jess, that sucks  Maybe you could start with one dog and build him up slowly. It took my Lab awhile to like other dogs again after she was attacked.


----------



## Kim16 (Jan 27, 2012)

i started sandy on bil-jac and its left her with dry mouth and most recently vomiting. i'm switching her back to her other food. she doesnt have the energy she used to and seems to have lost alot of weight since i put her on it. i dont reccommend!


----------



## Casie_J (Mar 14, 2012)

Ellen, what your dog does well on should always come first. My dog didn't do well on most good quality foods, but I still refused to feed him junk. A lot of dogs wont eat good food because its healthy, just look, you give a kid a plate of brussel sprouts and a plate of snickers bars. What do you think the kid is going to eat? Dogs raised on junk will tend to not eat anything but junk and I have a feeling that is what happened with your pup. If your dog is hungry enough he WILL eat what you give him, it may take a few days but it is not dangerous to wait that long so long as he has plenty of water. 

You may just not have tried the right kind of good dog food for him, you only tried two brands before giving up. Maybe something with a higher protein content or a different meat source or such would have worked. But you didnt give healthy food much of a chance from how you make it sound.


----------



## Casie_J (Mar 14, 2012)

Also, you quote "by the way who in the heck would ever want to be a dog food expert" is rather offensive because I have spent many an hour studying dog food and dog nutrition, and at least I care enough about what goes into my dog's stomach to try that hard. WOuld you want to eat "chicken by-product" every night, considering by-product is what is left after the rendering process that is not good enough to make it onto your plate. It could be a tumor off a chicken that died of cancer for all you know.


----------



## allie1 (Apr 11, 2012)

I have tried many premium dog foods. I feed my other dogs Victor dry with Newmans canned mixed in. But my 13 yo Cocker eats Bil jac Senior. It is the only food that doesn't give him diarrhea. His coat is great and he even quit eating poop after being on Biljac. I know this food only receives 3 stars but it is the best match for him.I tried the reduced fat it did not help only the Senior helped him.
Sometimes you cant just read the reviews to choose your food. He got very sick on Blue Buffalo and Wellness. So glad I got a sample at Petsmart. I wouldn't have purchased a food with 3 stars but now I'm sold. Also at his last checkup the vet agreed that he looks great and his bloodwork was better than last years.


----------



## Kate8 (May 25, 2012)

As Bil-Jac does have a corn in it, if you read how the food is made, it will all make sense. I am a dog groomer, and I have met more diabetic dogs than ever before. If you think about the one thing "quality" dog foods are putting into their food, it will all make a little more sense. Rice- It starts as a carb, and when it breaks down turns into a sugar. We all know what sugars can do over time. Weight gain and if too much of it, diabetes.
I had my dogs on many, MANY of these quality brand dog foods and one of my dogs skin and coat got worse and worse with every one I tried. I tried Bil-Jac and he hasn't had a problem since. The vet says his skin and coat are improving. It all depends on what works best for your dog in the end.


----------

