# The bad part about laser therapy for arthritis in dogs



## xellil

Snorkels was feeling a little puny and i decided it might be because her new laser therapy treatment was too strong. In the end, I think it was because of the antibiotics and Fortiflora I gave her last month.

So I decided to try skipping a week of therapy. She normally gets them on Friday. On Saturday and Sunday, she felt great so I probably let her overdo. when she goes out into the pasture she is on high speed the whole time, no walking, and we did that both days.

Sunday afternoon she peed in her sleep. She started walking around with her tail between her legs. She quit barking for meals, and we would find her just zonked out in weird places, like right in the middle of the hallway. she would eat but she wasn't going nuts about it like she usually is. Once, I had her in my lap and set her on the floor and she just passed out right there without moving.

Being dense, I still wasn't thinking that she might be in pain. I took in a urine sample on Tuesday morning. Tuesday afternoon, I thought I might need to go to the ER with her. She wasn't moving around at all. We were carrying her out to pee. 

then it finally dawned on me Tuesday night she was acting like she was in pain. all the sleeping had fooled me, I guess, into thinking it was something else going on. 

So yesterday morning I took her in for a laser therapy treatment. she came home and slept for four hours. When she woke up, she woke up running. And barking, and wanting to go for a run outside. This morning, she was up bright and early at 7am ready for breakfast. She seems 100 percent back to normal.

the bad part is I didn't realize the effects of the laser therapy would go away so fast. It makes me a little nervous for her to have to rely so totally on someone else's machine working every week. And on me being able to pay for it. Without it, she is apparently in dire straits pretty quickly.

And on a side note, having Parker makes me see how a normal dachshund poops. He goes outside and it takes about five seconds to poop. I realize that even though Snorkels is not as bad as before, she is a long way away from having a normal bowel movement.


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## DaneMama

My Emmy is the same way with acupuncture/aquapuncture treatments...although I spread them out to 1-2 times per month depending on her pain level. 

Honestly feel great about using laser therapy for her because it doesn't do any harm to her body like drugs do.


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## xellil

DaneMama said:


> My Emmy is the same way with acupuncture/aquapuncture treatments...although I spread them out to 1-2 times per month depending on her pain level.
> 
> Honestly feel great about using laser therapy for her because it doesn't do any harm to her body like drugs do.


Oh I definitely do. Do you know if laser therapy ever loses its effectiveness? I can't seem to find any long term studies.

i was just amazed at how quickly she went downhill without it. Pretty much totally nonfunctional in three days. Of course, I normally only let her exercise every other day so that might have accelerated it.


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## DaneMama

It's completely depends on the patient. I think that some cases, therapies like this do lose effectiveness. It's clear that Snorkles definitely still benefits from it now...will it always work for her? No guarantee but focus on the fact that it does work for her!


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## MollyWoppy

Do you mind if I ask how much it cost's for the laser treatment xellil? My friends old pug has suddenly started just lying around and sleeping, his tail is uncurled and down. My friend asked me what I think is wrong and I've been telling her that I think he is in pain. So, going by what you've said, it's probably right. His lower back is sort of fused up or something. 
I've read what you've said before about the laser treatment and how great it is, but her vet is telling her he needs to go on steroids. I just want to give her some other options than those drugs.
I'm glad to hear it works so well on Snorkles, man, it sounds like she's just a different dog on it.


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## xellil

MollyWoppy said:


> Do you mind if I ask how much it cost's for the laser treatment xellil? My friends old pug has suddenly started just lying around and sleeping, his tail is uncurled and down. My friend asked me what I think is wrong and I've been telling her that I think he is in pain. So, going by what you've said, it's probably right. His lower back is sort of fused up or something.
> I've read what you've said before about the laser treatment and how great it is, but her vet is telling her he needs to go on steroids. I just want to give her some other options than those drugs.
> I'm glad to hear it works so well on Snorkles, man, it sounds like she's just a different dog on it.


It does sound like what Snorkels does. I should have recognized it - but it's been a long time since she's done that. It's amazing how it just drains them of everything, being in constant pain.

In Indiana, it was $20 a session. Here, I found it from $30 to $40. My vet was charging $40 but I talked him into $30 since we go every week. Things are alot higher in Texas than in Indiana as far as vets go.

I think you may be right about the "fused up" thing. Snorkels has spondylosis (?) which is a U shape growth between two vertabrae that connects them. She has several of those, plus several degenerated discs.

I hope you get her to check on it. I know the pain must be bad for them to act the way they do. And long-term steroids, or even the nonsteroidal anti-inflammatories are a poor fix, in my opinion.

The thing we are trying on my foster dog is a three week course of non-steroidal antiinflammatory plus Dosequin. The vet thinks the Dosequin might be all he needs but we are going to re-evaluate for laser therapy next week. Of course, his back problem is minimal compared to Snorkels - he has three discs that are a little degenerated, allowing pressure on the spinal column. 

I wish dogs would show their pain more. Or we would learn how to read them better. Snorkels was actually showing her pain pretty good and I just took a couple of days to figure it out. But if her pug is laying around, tail down, head down, I would at least suspect arthritis pain, for sure.


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## MollyWoppy

thanks xellil. I'm looking after both the pugs at the moment and was just outside with my friend telling her what you said. I'm going to look into it and see who round here does lazer therapy. Also going to write down the names of those drugs and probably go with her the next time she takes the old boy to the vet. 
Thanks again, appreciate it!


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## malluver1005

I also have thought about doing laser for Aspen maybe 1-2 times a month, but I don't think it will be as effective on him unless I shave him


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## xellil

malluver1005 said:


> I also have thought about doing laser for Aspen maybe 1-2 times a month, but I don't think it will be as effective on him unless I shave him


Nah - it's a light beam. Goes right through hair, skin, and muscle!


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## magicre

does the laser treatment lose its effectiveness due to a tolerance? or because as time goes by, the dog is in more pain and the laser can only do so much..

i think it's awesome that we have lasers....probaby the least invasive, most benign therapy with the greatest results.

i get what you mean by dependency, tho. 

it has to be nightmarish to think, what if i can't afford it...or what happens when her pain is greater than the laser can handle....i get that.


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## xellil

That's what I'm wondering - I can't find out if it quits working. 

And what does it actually DO? I mean, it does a whole bunch of stuff. It brings in more oxygenated blood, and reduces swelling. One of the things it does is stop the nerves from sending pain messages to the brain. Can we do more damage if she can't feel the pain? And will it do it indefinitely?

I am sure it's like the heart thing - it helps the peripheral issues but does nothing to stop the structural damage caused by the disease. And I'm sure the disease is progressing right along like all these stupid diseases do.

and yes Re, I see you do totally get it. Like a drug addiction. 

Still, I know it's better than drugs. I guess I just get so angry that people let her get like this. And then dumped her off and probably got another one they are now treating the same way. We are just relying an awful lot on something I really have no control over.


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## magicre

Laser Therapy and Pain Relief

this is a pretty comprehensive statement about lasers.....and how they work...

although i'm sure you've looked everything up...

from what i can gather, laser therapy is relatively safe...probably safer than other therapies..or drugs...

that there is laser therapy for all kinds of treatments, including an incurable one such as spondylosis....is fantastic, in my opinion...

i know this puts things out of your control....but as long as snorkels responds and you can afford it, i think you've chosen the bet treatment for her, as you have done everything else...


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## xellil

yes, one of the most miraculous things about it is that it has no side effects. There is no drug in the world that can say that. I just wish I could find a 10 year study although I get the technology hasn't been around very long.

The vet techs where we go now laser themselves. One of them read it gets rid of wrinkles. 

This fellow who seems to know his stuff says it actually repairs RNA and DNA. I'm not medical enough to know what that really means, but it sounds serious. And he also says it's good for spondylosis



> Effects at the cellular level: the reduction of Reactive Oxygen Species (ROS) is a major effect of the laser light. It has been proven that the light at the proper wavelength repairs mitochondrial DNA (mDNA) and messenger RNA (mRNA), used to support and direct maintenance and metabolism in the cell.


Veterinary Cold Laser Therapy

So yes, it seems miraculous. And it really, really is. i truly believe it may change the way we treat animals and people in ways we can't even imagine today. I don't think the FDA has approved it for people yet.

But without it, things went downhill extremely fast. All the stuff I read about it says laser treatments can last for months - and in fact after our initial series the rehab people said we were done. We were not - we were back within two weeks that time. 

I have alot more control of the food! If the worst happens, I can steal a chicken. Not sure if I could break into the vet's office and give my dog laser treatments.

But, i would stil recommend it to anyone who has a dog with an injury or arthritis, a wound that's not healing, chronic pain etc. Might put the Rimadyl people out of business.


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## nikkoandem

Hi there,

I just wanted to respond to this and say that the laser you probably had used on your dog was either a cold laser or a Class 1/3 laser. The only laser that has deep therapuetic and lasting affects is the Class 4 Deep Tissue Laser. My dog was unfortunately hit by a car about 4 years ago but thank God no serious injuries except spinal misalignments and arthritis in his lower spine and neck. My dog would get occassional pinched nerves and neck stiffness and pain. So bad was the pain that he could not even turn his neck without crying. We got 7 treatments with the class 4 deep tissue laser and he is great! I take him in one time every 3 to 4 months to keep the inflammation down in his spine but the results are permanent. The laser therapeutic value is in how much energy it delivers (joules). For example, a 5 minute treatment with a cold laser will deliver maybe 150 joules at a treatment depth of 3 cm. A class 4 laser will deliver 3,500 joules of energy in that time with a treatment depth of 15 cm. Hope this helps!


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## Samiot85

How old was snorkels at the time you began the laser treatment?


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## MollyWoppy

I'm thinking she was probably around 12 or 13. She was adopted as an golden oldie, so unsure, but around that age if not older.


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