# Whats a good range of Kcals/cup?



## lauren43 (Feb 6, 2011)

I was searching some of the well known high quality brands and I am noticing the kcals per cup varies greatly. Some foods are in the low 300's where as others are nearly 500. If I want my dog to lose weight I am assuming I would want lower kcals per cup, correct?


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## Kibblelady (Jul 13, 2012)

lauren43 said:


> I was searching some of the well known high quality brands and I am noticing the kcals per cup varies greatly. Some foods are in the low 300's where as others are nearly 500. If I want my dog to lose weight I am assuming I would want lower kcals per cup, correct?



Yes lower kcals would be best but do not go low low kcals. I have noticed this causes a problem too. It has been described as the brain thinking the body is "starving" and actually conserving calories etc and then you get no weight loss at all. Moderate kcals probably with moderate protein and a tad lower fat would be my recommendation. I am not sure what products are out there right now as I was offline for a while but I do have one attached to my company...hate saying that but we do have a good one if you are interested just PM me, I'll look for some other ones available as well. I always liked Eagle Pack Senior for this purpose but I am not sure about the company changes that took place while I was not aware. Sensible Choice (Natural Blend) from Royal Canin had a good one but it looks like it is off the market.

** Mod I was not sure what to do in this case, if my suggestion was out of line remove it and I will send it privately...


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## InkedMarie (Sep 9, 2011)

Lower Carb is more important than low fat, when weight needs to be lost. FWIW, I used Wellness Core's reduced fat to help a new adopted lose 20+ pounds. I can't remember the kcals nor the fat, just that it was low Carb.


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## Kibblelady (Jul 13, 2012)

Marie I disagree with you, the overall calories is what is important in many, many studies. Much has been written about the effect of both low carbs and low fat and in the end they differ little, it is smart eating and lower calories that make the difference.


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## InkedMarie (Sep 9, 2011)

Kibblelady said:


> Marie I disagree with you, the overall calories is what is important in many, many studies. Much has been written about the effect of both low carbs and low fat and in the end they differ little, it is smart eating and lower calories that make the difference.


I didn't say anything about calories, I said that I think that lower carb is more important than lower fat.


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## SaharaNight Boxers (Jun 28, 2011)

I've learned higher kcal is better as they are getting more nutrients out of each cup. Unless they're empty calories. 

And I agree lower carb is way more important. Low fat can be bad because of skin and cost health.


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## Kibblelady (Jul 13, 2012)

Marie I also commented on the low carb vs low fat. Studies show neither is "better" or more effective. In the end it is what you/ your dog is eating and the calories that matter in weight loss.

For instance, look at the construction of this..


Chicken Meal, Pearled Barley, Oat Groats, Ground Brown Rice, Ground Grain Sorghum, Dried Egg Product, Rice Bran, Dried Beet Pulp, Catfish Meal, Natural Flavors, Chicken Fat (Preserved with Mixed Tocopherols, a natural source of Vitamin E), Canola Oil, Brewers Dried Yeast, Pork Plasma, Flaxseed Meal, Fish Oil, Calcium Carbonate, Lecithin, Potassium Chloride, L-Lysine, Fructooligosaccharide, Salt, Dried Apple Pomace, Vitamin E Supplement, L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate, Taurine, Dried Carrots, DL-Methionine, Dried Lactobacillus acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus casei Fermentation Product, Dried Bifidobacterium thermophilum Fermentation Product, Dried Enterococcus faecium Fermentation Product, Dried Celery, Zinc Proteinate, Zinc Sulfate, Dried Blueberries, Dried Broccoli, Pomegranate Extract, Dried Beets, Dried Parsley, Dried Lettuce, Dried Watercress, Dried Spinach, Manganese Proteinate, Beta-Carotene, Niacin Supplement, Manganese Sulfate, Inositol, Ferrous Sulfate, Iron Proteinate, L-Carnitine, Thiamine Mononitrate, Zinc Oxide, Biotin, Riboflavin Supplement, Copper Sulfate, Selenium Yeast, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Copper Proteinate, Manganous Oxide, Vitamin A Acetate, Potassium Iodide, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Folic Acid. 

This has 35.5% carbs, lower than the normal version of this food. Notice the higher protein and lower fat, both carbs and fat are lower simultaneously. Calories are 326 kcals per cup.. significantly lower than the regular version of this food. The brown rice is the only higher glycemic index ingredient, the others are specifically selected for their low index. I used this one as the example because it is the one I know well. There is a reason it is constructed the way that it is. My sister is using this and her dog is doing wonderfully and yes, losing weight slowly as it should be.

Here is a link showing recommended weight loss foods formulated the exact same way as in higher protein, lower fat and lower kcals the carbs can vary with these foods but IMO not for good reasons... normal to higher fat values and high protein are not the way to approach this IMO and if there is science backing this approach I would love to read it. Here is the link Recommended Dog Foods for Weight Loss oh, my linking to articles sometimes on the DFA does not mean I endorse DFA, sometimes there just happens to be the information I am looking for on a page on the site.


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## DaViking (Sep 27, 2011)

Inactivity, overfeeding (known or unknown) and medical situations are causes of weight gain and obesity. Medical issues aside, find any reasonable good formula and adjust activity levels and food amounts. That's the way to go.
Regarding kcals per cup. The variations comes from packing more (or less) weight into the same volume. Well, sometimes it's not even the same volume from one brand to the other! So, if counting calories is important or you have a special interest for what ever reason always go with kcal/kg.

Here's a pdf of daily calorie requirements I saw today


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## InkedMarie (Sep 9, 2011)

DaViking said:


> Inactivity, overfeeding (known or unknown) and medical situations are causes of weight gain and obesity. Medical issues aside, find any reasonable good formula and adjust activity levels and food amounts. That's the way to go.
> Regarding kcals per cup. The variations comes from packing more (or less) weight into the same volume. Well, sometimes it's not even the same volume from one brand to the other! So, if counting calories is important or you have a special interest for what ever reason always go with kcal/kg.
> 
> Here's a pdf of daily calorie requirements I saw today


When we adopted the sheltie, who was 14" tall, she weighed 43.7lbs. She had alot of health issues and walking her was out of the question for a very long time. She needed to lose weight and needed to asap. We put her on thyroid meds, which I'm sure helped and I needed a food for her. I wanted a grainfree, higher protein food but one with lower fat. The answer for us was Wellness Core reduced fat. It worked wonders for her and I know somone online who had an obese dog and the last I knew, was working for that dog too. Might not be the answer for every dog but it was for us


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## DaViking (Sep 27, 2011)

InkedMarie said:


> When we adopted the sheltie, who was 14" tall, she weighed 43.7lbs. She had alot of health issues and walking her was out of the question for a very long time. She needed to lose weight and needed to asap. We put her on thyroid meds, which I'm sure helped and I needed a food for her. I wanted a grainfree, higher protein food but one with lower fat. The answer for us was Wellness Core reduced fat. It worked wonders for her and I know somone online who had an obese dog and the last I knew, was working for that dog too. Might not be the answer for every dog but it was for us


Hypothyroidism. That would fall in under a medical situation. Donna Solomon, DVM: Pet Obesity Is OUR Decision


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## Kibblelady (Jul 13, 2012)

InkedMarie said:


> When we adopted the sheltie, who was 14" tall, she weighed 43.7lbs. She had alot of health issues and walking her was out of the question for a very long time. She needed to lose weight and needed to asap. We put her on thyroid meds, which I'm sure helped and I needed a food for her. I wanted a grainfree, higher protein food but one with lower fat. The answer for us was Wellness Core reduced fat. It worked wonders for her and I know somone online who had an obese dog and the last I knew, was working for that dog too. Might not be the answer for every dog but it was for us



That food would be appropriate for an overweight dog IMO And again 30% carbs....


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## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

I've heard a lot of great things about WC reduced fat for weight loss. And wow, that is an EXTREMELY heavy sheltie!!! Bishop is around 14-15 inches tall, and weighs 17-18 pounds...


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## InkedMarie (Sep 9, 2011)

Caty M said:


> I've heard a lot of great things about WC reduced fat for weight loss. And wow, that is an EXTREMELY heavy sheltie!!! Bishop is around 14-15 inches tall, and weighs 17-18 pounds...



Cat, she moved here to NH from Texas with owners and a 1yr old dog. Once here, they brought both dogs to the shelter; Katie was 11yrs old. She came waddling out, dripping blood, with infected ears, gave me one kiss and that was all it took. We knew she had arthritis, turned out she also had bilateral hip dysplasia, hypothyroidism, bladder stones i n addition to arthritis and being huge. Thyroid meds, Core reduced fat, pain meds and eventually she got down to 26 lbs. She survived surgery to remove a hemangiopericytoma from her shoulder, lived a little more than a year more and died in 2011 at somewhere round 15 yrs of age. She became totally deaf a few months after we got her but she loved all adults but not the kids and she ruled the roost around here.
We had another sheltie at the time, Tucker was 20" tall nd 34 lean lbs. Was mistaken for an Aussie (he was a blue Merle)


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## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

InkedMarie said:


> Cat, she moved here to NH from Texas with owners and a 1yr old dog. Once here, they brought both dogs to the shelter; Katie was 11yrs old. She came waddling out, dripping blood, with infected ears, gave me one kiss and that was all it took. We knew she had arthritis, turned out she also had bilateral hip dysplasia, hypothyroidism, bladder stones i n addition to arthritis and being huge. Thyroid meds, Core reduced fat, pain meds and eventually she got down to 26 lbs. She survived surgery to remove a hemangiopericytoma from her shoulder, lived a little more than a year more and died in 2011 at somewhere round 15 yrs of age. She became totally deaf a few months after we got her but she loved all adults but not the kids and she ruled the roost around here.
> We had another sheltie at the time, Tucker was 20" tall nd 34 lean lbs. Was mistaken for an Aussie (he was a blue Merle)


OMG- that is so sad. Who could put a dog in that kind of condition, especially a senior, and then just dump it.. :-(


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## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

Very glad at least she got to live out her years with you guys- healthier and obviously happier!


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## lauren43 (Feb 6, 2011)

Tess is not a picky eater but she hated wellness.


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## monster'sdad (Jul 29, 2012)

I would avoid worrying about the stated calories. In many cases it means nothing. The calories are calculated using a standard method and many other factors that are not accounted for under that method influence how the food is digested.


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## lauren43 (Feb 6, 2011)

I'm looking to switch Tess from Nutrisca and I'm trying to find a similar food.


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## Kibblelady (Jul 13, 2012)

monster'sdad said:


> I would avoid worrying about the stated calories. In many cases it means nothing. The calories are calculated using a standard method and many other factors that are not accounted for under that method influence how the food is digested.


Would you be referring to DE vs ME?


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## lindseycampbell358 (Jun 17, 2012)

I usually recommend a canned food mixed with the regular dry, or just canned for those wanting to get a dog's weight down. In my experience with canned, they get fuller with less total calories. I would almost never recommend giving a "low calorie" food; they usually just have less meat content & more stuff like rice. Which is ok, but definitely more exercise, fewer % carbohydrates, and less quantity of food is the best idea IMO. My GSD is on Nature's Variety Instinct right now (rotating flavors), and the results are amazing. The kcals/cup usually runs about 490, depending on the formula. He's never done better on any other food.


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## Kibblelady (Jul 13, 2012)

lindseycampbell358 said:


> I usually recommend a canned food mixed with the regular dry, or just canned for those wanting to get a dog's weight down. In my experience with canned, they get fuller with less total calories. I would almost never recommend giving a "low calorie" food; they usually just have less meat content & more stuff like rice. Which is ok, but definitely more exercise, fewer % carbohydrates, and less quantity of food is the best idea IMO. My GSD is on Nature's Variety Instinct right now (rotating flavors), and the results are amazing. The kcals/cup usually runs about 490, depending on the formula. He's never done better on any other food.


Lindsey realize the lower calorie foods I am referring to are not "low calorie" make sense? Just more moderate like around 350-400... I would never recommend a food with lower than 300 kcals to any dog ugh


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## Kibblelady (Jul 13, 2012)

Thumbs up to the inclusion of canned though...read a study ions, many ions ago that showed that an incorporation of 25% ( 1/4 per feeding) moist food increased digestion greatly  My dogs always get some wet mixed in, I just usually fail to mention it lol


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## lindseycampbell358 (Jun 17, 2012)

Yes, thanks for clearing that up! Mine always gets a bit of canned or just meat as a kibble topper too, I've noticed that it helps him with digestive issues as well.


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## InkedMarie (Sep 9, 2011)

Caty M said:


> OMG- that is so sad. Who could put a dog in that kind of condition, especially a senior, and then just dump it.. :-(


They said they couldn't find a rent that would allow dogs. It's hogwash, I live in the same area as the shelter, plenty of dog friendly rents here. Doesn't matter, they allowed her to get twice the size she should have been, I don't think it was all from hypothyroidism. It was a bonus for us, we didn't think we'd have her a year but had her over three. If she stayed with the owners, doubt she'd have been with them long.


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## lovemydogsalways (Mar 4, 2012)

DaViking said:


> Inactivity, overfeeding (known or unknown) and medical situations are causes of weight gain and obesity. Medical issues aside, find any reasonable good formula and adjust activity levels and food amounts. That's the way to go.
> Regarding kcals per cup. The variations comes from packing more (or less) weight into the same volume. Well, sometimes it's not even the same volume from one brand to the other! So, if counting calories is important or you have a special interest for what ever reason always go with kcal/kg.
> 
> Here's a pdf of daily calorie requirements I saw today


Is that PDF talking about kcal/kg then?


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## DaViking (Sep 27, 2011)

lovemydogsalways said:


> Is that PDF talking about kcal/kg then?


That pdf give you (ballpark) the number of calories per day you should feed based on the weight of the dog. How many calories each brand/formula packs per, say, 120 grams or per 1 cup varies from formula to formula.

Example: Our Jack Russell x is 18lbs and intact. Following that guide he needs 610 kcals per day. The food we are currently feeding him have 4050 kcal per kilogram (1000 grams) 

So the formula will be;

(610 kcal / 4050 kcal) * 1000 = 150g(rams) per day of the food we currently feed.


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