# Financially Strict Diet



## nortknee (May 5, 2011)

Alright. I'm officially wondering how anyone feeds a dog raw with these prices in Canada...well, actually, I know the answer to that. They don't.
I ventured to ask someone what they fed their dog on the street the other day..."we just buy that stuff at wal-mart, the cheap stuff...) eeergh. I refuse to own a dog if I can't feed it properly!!!

I've gone just about everywhere I can think of.
These are the prices for chicken that I've found:

Grocery store sale, whole (but there was a 2 chicken per person limit), $1.99/lb
Local meat market, whole, $2.50/lb
Organic, free-range farmer, whole, $3.65/lb

Wings alone are $4.00/lb.
Necks are $2.00/lb

The list goes on and on...food is ridiculously expensive here. Anyone else have any suggestions for Yarmouth, Nova Scotia?

ETA: Orijen kibble, since I've exhausted the idea of feeding raw 100% of the time, is still $75 for a 30 lb bag. What gives here?


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

I am sorry - no advice but you have made me feel blessed to be in the U.S. as I pay less than $1.00 for all my meats. I hope someone in your area can give you some suggestions. I wouldn't be able to feed raw or even it seems "good" kibble in you area.


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## RachelsaurusRexU (Sep 4, 2010)

No wholesalers that you can buy from in bulk?


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## nortknee (May 5, 2011)

Liz said:


> I am sorry - no advice but you have made me feel blessed to be in the U.S. as I pay less than $1.00 for all my meats. I hope someone in your area can give you some suggestions. I wouldn't be able to feed raw or even it seems "good" kibble in you area.


Yeah. I'm glad I've done the research. We WILL have a dog...it may just be a smaller dog who doesn't eat so much so that we can actually afford to feed ourselves!!!
We've just signed a lease for an apartment starting in July and we're budgeting almost $800/mo for 2 people to eat. I seriously hope that we're over-budgeting this, but so far after being here a month, it doesn't seem that way. All food items (even bread) you're lucky to get for $3-4/loaf. Back home, we could get bread for $1.89 NOT on sale, and steak was roughly $6/lb, not $15...


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

What size dog will you look at getting?


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## nortknee (May 5, 2011)

RachelsaurusRexU said:


> No wholesalers that you can buy from in bulk?


Not that I've found. The closest thing is going straight to the rancher here, and they charge an arm and a leg for it.
The community I live in is about 5,000 people strong, and it's at the very southern tip of Nova Scotia...isolated from any big city. Halifax, the nearest what I would call "city" is nearly 4 hours away. It just doesn't feel like raw has really gotten here yet. I called around some vets and one basically told me they wouldn't treat any dog I owned that was fed such a poor diet as raw. *rolls eyes*


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## nortknee (May 5, 2011)

DaneMama said:


> What size dog will you look at getting?


One that eats like a bird... 

We're trying to stay below 50 lbs, since that's the limit on the lease we're signing.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Any particular breeds you favor?


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## nortknee (May 5, 2011)

DaneMama said:


> Any particular breeds you favor?


Yes and no. I usually can't find a dog I don't like specifically based on breed. I'm really not keen on itty bitty dogs, chihuahuas and the like. I'm scared I'd break them. 
I'd consider a Wheaten terrier, or a Mini Schnauzer. Even a smaller herding dog (aussie, collie) would be fine. I just like the more "robust" dogs. Too bad they're all WAY over the food bill I'm able to afford for them.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

What do you plan on doing with the dog? That will help narrow down the breeds that would be ideal for your situation...


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## nortknee (May 5, 2011)

DaneMama said:


> What do you plan on doing with the dog? That will help narrow down the breeds that would be ideal for your situation...


Hiking/trail walking will likely be a big part of his/her exercise, as well as lots of obedience work and fun tricks. There isn't really any training facility, so we'll have to travel for that, and I thought that swimming would be fun until I went to the beach a couple of times and realized the Atlantic ocean never warms up enough for ME to get in it. Anyway, it will mainly be my companion dog.


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

Just so you know my sheltie is 15 1/2 inches at the shoulder and 20 pounds and eats 6-8 ounces per day. My collie girls weigh about 55 pounds and get 1 pound 4 ounces per day and my boy weighs 80 pounds and gets 1 3/4 pounds per day. Just wanted to give you an estimate. They are easy keepers though.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

nortknee said:


> Hiking/trail walking will likely be a big part of his/her exercise, as well as lots of obedience work and fun tricks. There isn't really any training facility, so we'll have to travel for that, and I thought that swimming would be fun until I went to the beach a couple of times and realized the Atlantic ocean never warms up enough for ME to get in it. Anyway, it will mainly be my companion dog.


Are you going to rescue or get a puppy from a breeder?


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## nortknee (May 5, 2011)

DaneMama said:


> Are you going to rescue or get a puppy from a breeder?


Breeder, if possible.


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## phoDOGrapher (May 30, 2011)

What Province? (Or if you're willing, City?). I'm going through the same starters problem here in Ottawa. I have a couple of decent leads though, which I'm happy to share. Nothing close to US prices, but affordable and I think I can do it for less than good kibble. Also I work with local rescues which I would LOVE to share if you're looking at adopting!


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## phoDOGrapher (May 30, 2011)

I might be able to recommend some good breeders too, if you have a breed preference. Always better to go to a breeder by referral


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## nortknee (May 5, 2011)

phoDOGrapher said:


> What Province? (Or if you're willing, City?). I'm going through the same starters problem here in Ottawa. I have a couple of decent leads though, which I'm happy to share. Nothing close to US prices, but affordable and I think I can do it for less than good kibble. Also I work with local rescues which I would LOVE to share if you're looking at adopting!


I'm in Nova Scotia, in a town (not even a city!) called Yarmouth. I've found the Canada and the US differ greatly when it comes to consumerism. Even simple things like coupons...forget it, if you're in Canada. 50c on a product that costs $14.99? Really?!
Maybe with all the inflation/deflation of the American dollar compared to the Canadian dollar prices will go down...one can only hope. 

OH, AND, 15% sales tax here?! What the crap?!?!
I'm just sort of feeling like Alice in Wonderland...jump down the rabbit hole and enter a whole new world of crazy...


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## hamblekg (Feb 1, 2011)

I'm in Ontario with 3 dogs being raw fed (2 - 25 pound pugs and 1 100 lbs mix breed). I figure I feed all for about $100 more or less. Its more expensive when you start up because you don't have the contacts. On lists such as these, and when meeting other people who raw feed, you start to build up a list of suppliers. Sometimes I'll buy raw meat in the stores, beef heart at sobeys; wings at walmart etc. but generally I have made contacts with people who sell at reasonable prices. Such as box of turkey necks for $14 (usually about 20 in a box); another supplier for beef muscle meat course ground 20 lbs for $20 etc. It can be done - you just need to make contacts. Where in Ontario are you? I'm outside of Peterborough. ttfn


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## nortknee (May 5, 2011)

hamblekg said:


> I'm in Ontario with 3 dogs being raw fed (2 - 25 pound pugs and 1 100 lbs mix breed). I figure I feed all for about $100 more or less. Its more expensive when you start up because you don't have the contacts. On lists such as these, and when meeting other people who raw feed, you start to build up a list of suppliers. Sometimes I'll buy raw meat in the stores, beef heart at sobeys; wings at walmart etc. but generally I have made contacts with people who sell at reasonable prices. Such as box of turkey necks for $14 (usually about 20 in a box); another supplier for beef muscle meat course ground 20 lbs for $20 etc. It can be done - you just need to make contacts. Where in Ontario are you? I'm outside of Peterborough. ttfn


I wish I were in Ontario right about now! (In laws, but that's a whole nother story ) But seriously, I was talking to a guy from Toronto who just moved here (he owns a place called Nature's Pets, which is where I'd be getting my kibble from) and he has a Newfoundland that he was feeding raw (about 3.5-4 lbs per day) and he was getting it super cheap. Since he's moved here, he's had to stop raw completely because he just can't afford the prices here. :\
It seems like the further west you go in Canada, the cheaper (some) things are...specifically food.


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## phoDOGrapher (May 30, 2011)

That's what I'm finding for startup too. If I'm stuck I get it at Costco (my recommendation if you can't find a supplier). But I'm slowly starting to find some people to buy from. 

Nortknee. You can do a bit of kibble and raw, as long as it's separate meals 6-8 hours apart. That might be your happy medium. 

However - I've found costco to not be terrible, and I've contacted local butchers (small towns are best for that, so you have an advantage there) and a couple of suppliers. Right now I'm working on a pack of whole chickens. Feeding those full time for my senior 75lb-er would be about $70 per month. As I said, not great but not out of the question. Since you don't have the dog yet, I'd try going slightly smaller in dog size to afford the food. You can get some smaller dogs that are still "dogs" - think shiba inu, basenji, french bulldog, keeshond, welsh corgi, wheaten.. the list goes on. Or a good ol' small-medium rescue mutt!


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## nortknee (May 5, 2011)

phoDOGrapher said:


> That's what I'm finding for startup too. If I'm stuck I get it at Costco (my recommendation if you can't find a supplier). But I'm slowly starting to find some people to buy from.
> 
> Nortknee. You can do a bit of kibble and raw, as long as it's separate meals 6-8 hours apart. That might be your happy medium.
> 
> However - I've found costco to not be terrible, and I've contacted local butchers (small towns are best for that, so you have an advantage there) and a couple of suppliers. Right now I'm working on a pack of whole chickens. Feeding those full time for my senior 75lb-er would be about $70 per month. As I said, not great but not out of the question. Since you don't have the dog yet, I'd try going slightly smaller in dog size to afford the food. You can get some smaller dogs that are still "dogs" - think shiba inu, basenji, french bulldog, keeshond, welsh corgi, wheaten.. the list goes on. Or a good ol' small-medium rescue mutt!


I wish we had a Costco; ha!
We have Sobey's, Atlantic Superstore, and a local meat market. Walmart isn't a superstore. There's no chain restaraunts. It's different, that's for sure.

Yeah, we're in talks of another dog breed. We were set on a lab, but we seriously just can't swing it financially to feed a dog that big...not when feeding ourselves will cost at least $600/mo. SO doesn't want a foo-foo dog (and I don't either, really...we hike at least once a week, half a day or more, and walk at least an hour and a half in the evenings..I don't want a little dog that can't keep up), but we also don't want a dog that can't tolerate kids or cold weather. We would go with a rescue, but we REALLY want the "puppy" experience, and I'd like to find a breeder who feeds quality kibble, if not raw...those are few and far between for ANY breed.


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## phoDOGrapher (May 30, 2011)

nortknee said:


> I wish we had a Costco; ha!
> We have Sobey's, Atlantic Superstore, and a local meat market. Walmart isn't a superstore. There's no chain restaraunts. It's different, that's for sure.
> 
> Yeah, we're in talks of another dog breed. We were set on a lab, but we seriously just can't swing it financially to feed a dog that big...not when feeding ourselves will cost at least $600/mo. SO doesn't want a foo-foo dog (and I don't either, really...we hike at least once a week, half a day or more, and walk at least an hour and a half in the evenings..I don't want a little dog that can't keep up), but we also don't want a dog that can't tolerate kids or cold weather. We would go with a rescue, but we REALLY want the "puppy" experience, and I'd like to find a breeder who feeds quality kibble, if not raw...those are few and far between for ANY breed.


Some rescues have pups too. try petfinder.com You can find just about anything there! 

Otherwise, I'd consider a French Bulldog. They are tough little suckers! I photographed some in the late fall. We went on a long hike, they dove into freezing cold water and right out again, no problem. I just thought they were SO cool! There are many other smaller breeds that aren't foo foo and are very resilient. Jacks are fantastic if you can keep up with them - my first childhood dog was a jack. 

It's too bad the prices of food limit our choices in dog. Not fair ! I hope something works out for you


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## monkeys23 (Dec 8, 2010)

A Border Collie would fit the size limit and be really awesome for a hiking and obedience training buddy. I love BC's.

My sled dog mutt (Sibe/GSD best I can figure) is really thrifty with food. You could easily find a rescue one within your size limit, I see them all the time in the shelters here in Idaho. She eats 0.75-1lb a day and is right at 50lbs.


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## Pimzilla (May 1, 2011)

nortknee said:


> Yes and no. I usually can't find a dog I don't like specifically based on breed. I'm really not keen on itty bitty dogs, chihuahuas and the like. I'm scared I'd break them.
> I'd consider a Wheaten terrier, or a Mini Schnauzer. Even a smaller herding dog (aussie, collie) would be fine. I just like the more "robust" dogs. Too bad they're all WAY over the food bill I'm able to afford for them.


I got a mini schnauzer, it is really a big dog in a small package if you are up for that. She is only 17 weeks now but I can tell she's not aware of her being smaller than other dogs. Easily trained aswell and got a fanclub among the kids in the neighbourhood due to her being able to perform simple tricks to amuse them :smile:
She eats about 1,6 kg per week so won't be too expensive to feed.


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## phoDOGrapher (May 30, 2011)

Pimzilla said:


> I got a mini schnauzer, it is really a big dog in a small package if you are up for that. She is only 17 weeks now but I can tell she's not aware of her being smaller than other dogs. Easily trained aswell and got a fanclub among the kids in the neighbourhood due to her being able to perform simple tricks to amuse them :smile:
> She eats about 1,6 kg per week so won't be too expensive to feed.


love mini schnauzers!


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## Pimzilla (May 1, 2011)

phoDOGrapher said:


> love mini schnauzers!


So do I now, will never regret my choice of breed :smile:
My only concern when getting her was that we have 2 rabbits who run around the house and the garden as they please, but she has been really good with them even though it sometimes is veeeeeery tempting to jump around them and try get them to play :smile:


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## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

I vote Australian Cattle Dog. The best dog in the world!!!!! (I'm not biased, really I'm not, its a fact!).
Mol eats just under a 1lb a day, she's round 40lbs.
Or, an ACD/BC cross. Or a Kelpie. 
If I were allowed to have 3 dogs, I'd have these.


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## Tobi (Mar 18, 2011)

Hey I just had an epiphany for your issue about budgeting meats, mark hunting times on your calendar and start putting flyers up in small markets, and stuff like that saying that you'd like the organs and stuff, i just did that with a small market up the street and found out that he's slaughtering 14 pigs this fall and were welcome to anything they don't want. If you know of anybody that hunts, i know I had LOTS of moose when i lived up in QC for 2 years! :lol:


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## Northwoods10 (Nov 22, 2010)

Tobi said:


> Hey I just had an epiphany for your issue about budgeting meats, mark hunting times on your calendar and start putting flyers up in small markets, and stuff like that saying that you'd like the organs and stuff, i just did that with a small market up the street and found out that he's slaughtering 14 pigs this fall and were welcome to anything they don't want. If you know of anybody that hunts, i know I had LOTS of moose when i lived up in QC for 2 years! :lol:


THIS! 

I'm sorry prices are so outrageous up there. I wouldn't be able to afford it with my 3. We feed about 4.5 lbs per day. 

Craigslist, freecycle, and placing your own ads can be a live saver. I know a lot of people who are able to feed their dogs for nearly free because they in popular hunting areas and know how to work the system. Also utilize sales as often as possible. Gather sale ads from the stores near you and shop for the best prices each week. 

Best of luck!!


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## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

I have a sheltie and he is most definitely a dog.. he is 14" at the shoulder and weighs around 17lb.. very active. Your prices are higher than mine (I'm in Calgary, Alberta).. I can get whole chickens on sale for around $1.50/lb, pork roasts for $0.90/lb and beef for $2/lb. I get quail free from a friend but pay a lot for lamb. Fish is decently cheap. Living in NS maybe you could get cheap fish? I'd think you can make 50% of your diet fish.. 50% red meat... feel free to correct me, though! Maybe you can get free/cheap fish scraps. I don't go to any suppliers.. just the grocery store since my dogs weigh 17lb and the pup is only about 1.5lb.


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## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

I think you are right about food prices being cheaper in the west. For two people (and two dogs) we spend about $450/month, and we don't watch what we spend.. so we do get more expensive meats etc for ourselves.


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## Sheltielover25 (Jan 18, 2011)

bishopthesheltie said:


> I have a sheltie and he is most definitely a dog.. he is 14" at the shoulder and weighs around 17lb.. very active. Your prices are higher than mine (I'm in Calgary, Alberta).. I can get whole chickens on sale for around $1.50/lb, pork roasts for $0.90/lb and beef for $2/lb. I get quail free from a friend but pay a lot for lamb. Fish is decently cheap. Living in NS maybe you could get cheap fish? I'd think you can make 50% of your diet fish.. 50% red meat... feel free to correct me, though! Maybe you can get free/cheap fish scraps. I don't go to any suppliers.. just the grocery store since my dogs weigh 17lb and the pup is only about 1.5lb.


I second this! I have a sheltie who also is 14" and she weighs about 19 lbs. She's a fabulous dog and is def. all dog. She will walk, hike, jog, run do it all and I always poop out before she does. She won't go in the water, though.  I also have sheltie/poodle (I think poodle) mixes, two of them, who weight 14/15lbs. I feed them all for $30 a month. I do buy in bulk and get three months at a time. Before I bought in bulk, I spent about $50 a month and that was going through grocery stores. So I fed three dogs, combining weight of 48lbs for fairly cheap. Granted I live in the states. Try to find odd pieces like beef heart and random things like that. I found out that Asian markets were a really good place to get cheap, random food. I fed a lot of heart when I bought from the store and it was all under $2 a lb. Good luck!!!


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## nortknee (May 5, 2011)

monkeys23 said:


> A Border Collie would fit the size limit and be really awesome for a hiking and obedience training buddy. I love BC's.


SO would jump on having a BC, I think...it was his first dog, and while he gets teary-eyed about it, he always seems to smile when he talks about her. My main issue with a BC is having no idea how much energy they truly have and if I could keep up with it. Yes, we're active, but we aren't runners (blown knees from soccer for me, and he's flat-footed) so, that's out...how do BC people keep their dogs happy? Especially while at work?

Obedience is a must for me, I personally love seeing the light turn on for an animal, and you're only as limited as your creativity is when it comes to a BC. 
Herding is something else I think would be fun, since it's natural for them. Seriously though, what do you guys do with your BCs?


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## lucky (Jan 8, 2011)

I have a 14 month old JRT and they truly are a big dog in a small package, she will go on hikes with us, she loves camping and exploring and is not afraid of anything (much to my worry most of the time) yet she is small enough to take everywhere and be able to afford to feed raw, meat here in Wales is rather pricey too, I buy mine from the supermarket, the butchers are even more expensive. I spend about £15 a month on food for her. She is about 10" tall and weighs 14lb


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## nortknee (May 5, 2011)

lucky said:


> I have a 14 month old JRT and they truly are a big dog in a small package, she will go on hikes with us, she loves camping and exploring and is not afraid of anything (much to my worry most of the time) yet she is small enough to take everywhere and be able to afford to feed raw, meat here in Wales is rather pricey too, I buy mine from the supermarket, the butchers are even more expensive. I spend about £15 a month on food for her. She is about 10" tall and weighs 14lb


JRT's are awesome, but a little too scrappy for us, I think. 
SO is rather soft-hearted and would probably be a carpet rug for any JRT!


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## lucky (Jan 8, 2011)

lol  yes they are quite scrappy


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## Tobi (Mar 18, 2011)

Do you guys like to Bike? if you were to get a BC it would be a great outlet running beside a bike, i know it isn't great until 18 months but until that point there are AWESOME ways of keeping a dogs mind and body active without wearing yourself out. Hikes are great, flirt poles, fetch, TRAINING is fantastic energy drain for a dog, hide and seek. I know winters up there are less than appealing to go out in all the time but knee deep snow would be a fantastic workout for a dog!! get him a jacket, and booties, i'm sure it'd be spent after an hour goofing around outside in it!


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## nortknee (May 5, 2011)

Tobi said:


> Do you guys like to Bike? if you were to get a BC it would be a great outlet running beside a bike, i know it isn't great until 18 months but until that point there are AWESOME ways of keeping a dogs mind and body active without wearing yourself out. Hikes are great, flirt poles, fetch, TRAINING is fantastic energy drain for a dog, hide and seek. I know winters up there are less than appealing to go out in all the time but knee deep snow would be a fantastic workout for a dog!! get him a jacket, and booties, i'm sure it'd be spent after an hour goofing around outside in it!


Yeah, I thought of this last night as I was trying to go to sleep...and then remembered this summer weather we have atm only lasts for about 2 months!
It's rainy here. Pretty much all the time. We might get 2 days of sun, 3 of rain in a week. As the year progresses, it becomes more like 4 of range, 1 sun, and eventually the winter is just grey and dull...so whatever breed we get has to be able to withstand being wet, and I'll need to learn to suck it up in the cold!
Biking would be great during the summer, but once the weather starts to turn, I don't know how safe it would be to go out on icy sidewalks...And yeah, knee deep snow would be an AWESOME workout for the both of us! 
Thankfully, BCs are smart enough that it takes alot of training to wear a dog out. I found my sisters airedale that I used to train get mentally exhausted after about 15-20 minutes of work. Much to my dismay.  My concern isn't the mental so much as the physical.

Oh! And I asked SO if we know any hunters that would be willing to give us the carcasses and all that. He said absolutely. We have a friend who hunts rabbit regularly, there's also deer hunters that the family knows, and SO is a lobster fisherman (not sure if that's safe to eat, but we know people who sell mackerel/haddock pretty cheaply), so thanks for pointing us in that direction.


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## phoDOGrapher (May 30, 2011)

Awesome that you're getting so many replies about amazing smaller dogs! (And I agree wholeheartedly about all of them)

I might suggest putting up a new post asking what small/medium "real dog" breeds (maybe reword so as not to offend anyone) people have and how much they feed, to get some great breed ideas and real experiences. That is unless your heart is already set on a BC, which is also fantastic  

I might refer back to this thread for my "next" dog. (if I can find it in 10+ years). I want to travel a lot so I'll need a carryon sized dog that's still tough. Right now I have a tough as nails chihuahua/terrier mix who fits the bill perfectly, except that she's petrified of strangers and bites fingers. Suits me fine, but she might not do well travelling.. guess we'll see in a couple of years! 

Great posts people!


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## nortknee (May 5, 2011)

phoDOGrapher said:


> Awesome that you're getting so many replies about amazing smaller dogs! (And I agree wholeheartedly about all of them)
> 
> I might suggest putting up a new post asking what small/medium "real dog" breeds (maybe reword so as not to offend anyone) people have and how much they feed, to get some great breed ideas and real experiences. That is unless your heart is already set on a BC, which is also fantastic
> 
> ...


Wonderful idea. And no, I'm not 100% set on a BC, just wanted some info on how much people feed/day. I do find that "herding dogs" are about as small as I prefer to get. And I don't know that you can find a "smarter" dog than a herding dog...it's just a matter of how much physical exercise it needs...HEY, maybe it might be beneficial to me to get more exercise, who knows? 
I'm certainly feeling a bit better about how expensive meat is here with the opportunity to get it straight from hunters, but the start up may still suck. We'll see.
What do you do that you've gotta travel here and there?


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## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

If you want a BC smart dog but are a bit unsure about exercise, I still think a sheltie would be great.. or even a corgi. They are both very active dogs.. my sheltie can keep up with 4-5 hours of hiking no problem, but when I had the stomach flu and didn't walk him for three days he wasn't too bad either. He only eats around 200-225g of food per day!


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## phoDOGrapher (May 30, 2011)

nortknee said:


> Wonderful idea. And no, I'm not 100% set on a BC, just wanted some info on how much people feed/day. I do find that "herding dogs" are about as small as I prefer to get. And I don't know that you can find a "smarter" dog than a herding dog...it's just a matter of how much physical exercise it needs...HEY, maybe it might be beneficial to me to get more exercise, who knows?
> I'm certainly feeling a bit better about how expensive meat is here with the opportunity to get it straight from hunters, but the start up may still suck. We'll see.
> What do you do that you've gotta travel here and there?


Nothing to do with career, except that my bf and I both have careers that will eventually allow us to travel. I'm a photographer and he's a software engineer. Our plan is to get some savings and credentials while we're here, which will be a while since we also have a 9 y/o Shep/Collie who we got as a 7 y/o malnourished rescue, and who I plan on keeping alive for as long as possible  Then we take the chi mix who will likely live till at least 20 (she's also 9 and has the energy of most 4 year olds I know) and take our careers from country to country a year or two at a time. I'm hoping I can foster bigger dogs while we travel too. I love this stage in life - "the world is our oyster" as they say! 

Glad you're feeling better about things - there's always a solution! If you like herding dogs I'd definitely look into cattle dogs or Australian shepherds too, they are VERY cool! I love that my girls are at the age now where they don't need to go for a run every day (although the little one could), but I do like the encouragement it gives me to exercise when I get a high energy foster who I have to run with every morning so my girls don't get harassed. I have one of those coming on Friday! As long as you can keep it up long term, a dog that encourages you to exercise more is never a bad thing. I have a couple of friends who ended up with dogs like that, and they love it! Biking and rollerblading are great options for bad knees, and if you really get stuck you can always go for a long walk, and teach them to use a treadmill, play fetch or - better yet - do agility, for the rest of the excess!


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## nortknee (May 5, 2011)

bishopthesheltie said:


> If you want a BC smart dog but are a bit unsure about exercise, I still think a sheltie would be great.. or even a corgi. They are both very active dogs.. my sheltie can keep up with 4-5 hours of hiking no problem, but when I had the stomach flu and didn't walk him for three days he wasn't too bad either. He only eats around 200-225g of food per day!


I'm apprehensive of a sheltie. They are REALLY small... :\ However, I love the standard rough collies. They've got awesome personalities (I've met a couple, always so dignified), and the size is perfect, but only on the smaller end. If we ended up getting a male, who wasn't quite as small as we thought, and it turns into a an 80-85 lb dog, we're in trouble. I guess I just can't into "small" or "carry-on" size dogs.  I prefer the medium to biggies.


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## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

I think overall shelties are more active than collies. I have definitely seen shelties run into the 35lb range.. there is a huge variance in their size. 

They are much bigger than chihuahuas.. 

What about a female Australian shepherd?


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## nortknee (May 5, 2011)

bishopthesheltie said:


> I think overall shelties are more active than collies. I have definitely seen shelties run into the 35lb range.. there is a huge variance in their size.
> 
> They are much bigger than chihuahuas..
> 
> What about a female Australian shepherd?


From my understanding, they're significantly more "chill" than BCs...which isn't a bad thing, especially considering there are kids (not ours) around on a regular basis. I'm just hoping they're spunky enough to catch onto training quickly. 
I totally get what you're saying about size variance. I've seen shelties at the dog park who rival in size with small terriers (who weren't pups...just not well bred, imo)... :\ Makes you do a double take.


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## bumblegoat (May 12, 2010)

If you like terriers, then perhaps a border terrier? They are active, easy to train, easy to motivate... But, they are not as crazy as a JRT. They are definately terriers though.


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## monkeys23 (Dec 8, 2010)

nortknee said:


> SO would jump on having a BC, I think...it was his first dog, and while he gets teary-eyed about it, he always seems to smile when he talks about her. My main issue with a BC is having no idea how much energy they truly have and if I could keep up with it. Yes, we're active, but we aren't runners (blown knees from soccer for me, and he's flat-footed) so, that's out...how do BC people keep their dogs happy? Especially while at work?
> 
> Obedience is a must for me, I personally love seeing the light turn on for an animal, and you're only as limited as your creativity is when it comes to a BC.
> Herding is something else I think would be fun, since it's natural for them. Seriously though, what do you guys do with your BCs?


I will fully admit I'm ruined for any "normal" chill dogs after growing up with BC's.

It sounds like you would totally be active enough for one though and if you want to get really involved with OB and are willing to try herding... I bet you'd do just fine!


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## Tobi (Mar 18, 2011)

monkeys23 said:


> I will fully admit I'm ruined for any "normal" chill dogs after growing up with BC's.
> 
> It sounds like you would totally be active enough for one though and if you want to get really involved with OB and are willing to try herding... I bet you'd do just fine!


I'm the same way! :lol: 

I grew up with several apbt's, JRT's and Rat Terriers...

Herding would be a lot of fun IMO!!


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## lucky (Jan 8, 2011)

My dad and his fiance have 5 little dogs, a chihuahua, a yorkie, 2 yorkie mixes and an old lady dachshund, they don't really enjoy the outdoors, to be fair though that is probably because of the way they have been raised, they are nasty little things too (been babied all their lives).... my dads fiance didn't like lucky going near her dogs thinking that she'd hurt them, always calling lucky a typical nasty, rough JRT, to be honest although she can be a handful and a little strong willed at times she is a very well behaved dog, in fact one of the yorkie mixes actually snapped at lucky's face and caught her lip, lucky could have retaliated but she didn't, she is too soft, think she must just have a different temperement to a lot of JRT's


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

I dont know if I missed it, and I dont know if you have one, but I would also see if you can find a Co-Op in your area and also start on the hunt(post on craigslist, etc) NOW for meat deals...better to have 40lbs stocked away in your freezer NOW then not have any when you DO get your dog!:wink: :biggrin1:


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## 3Musketeers (Nov 4, 2010)

Hey hey, not all small dogs are fruo-fruo. Plenty of breeds that aren't. For example I looove how the breed standard for Paps says: "elegant toy dog with a fine boned structure. He is light and dainty". Yet they excel at things like agility, and they can definitely go on for hours. They only look dainty IMO, little athletes in disguise, with their coats and all. 


Wow, with those prices I can't imagine being able to feed raw, there has to be some other sources to find your meats.


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## liannescavaliers (Mar 28, 2011)

I'm in a small town in Ontario and prices are similar. Even if I could find deals in Ottawa/Toronto, the time and money spent to drive there makes the "deal" not so great. I do my bulk shopping in the closest city (Peterborough), and buy organ meat and sale meat at the grocery store. 30% off stickers are my friend. Unfortunately, my dogs eat what I can get for cheap... so a lot of chicken, and moose/venison since we hunt. Also I buy mackerel in bulk so they eat a lot of that. I buy pork when it is on sale and they get steak when we have a bulk pack for ourselves (I will split one between all four of them...). It is still around the same price as Acana though... I am managing to spend 20-30$ a week for four under 20 pound dogs... doesn't sound like much, I know, but it means I don't buy lunch or coffee out very often!

I went to university in New Brunswick, but only fed a cat while there so wasn't thinking much about meat prices, but I know it was expensive just for my groceries! 

Can I recommend a Cavalier King Charles Spaniel?

I love shelties too


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## nortknee (May 5, 2011)

liannescavaliers said:


> I'm in a small town in Ontario and prices are similar. Even if I could find deals in Ottawa/Toronto, the time and money spent to drive there makes the "deal" not so great. I do my bulk shopping in the closest city (Peterborough), and buy organ meat and sale meat at the grocery store. 30% off stickers are my friend. Unfortunately, my dogs eat what I can get for cheap... so a lot of chicken, and moose/venison since we hunt. Also I buy mackerel in bulk so they eat a lot of that. I buy pork when it is on sale and they get steak when we have a bulk pack for ourselves (I will split one between all four of them...). It is still around the same price as Acana though... I am managing to spend 20-30$ a week for four under 20 pound dogs... doesn't sound like much, I know, but it means I don't buy lunch or coffee out very often!
> 
> I went to university in New Brunswick, but only fed a cat while there so wasn't thinking much about meat prices, but I know it was expensive just for my groceries!
> 
> ...


I'm glad to know I'm not the only one struggling with the sticker shock!

I'd love to have a CKCS, but I'm so scared of their health problems...and I'm uber paranoid when it comes to finding a breeder just BECAUSE of the health problems.
Any breeder recommendations?


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## liannescavaliers (Mar 28, 2011)

nortknee said:


> I'm glad to know I'm not the only one struggling with the sticker shock!
> 
> I'd love to have a CKCS, but I'm so scared of their health problems...and I'm uber paranoid when it comes to finding a breeder just BECAUSE of the health problems.
> Any breeder recommendations?


Mine are all rescues/owner surrenders actually... but I had to hunt for them. I know there are a couple of breeders on the East Coast, but COMPLETELY respect fear of their health issues, since that can be a real issue. IMHO, it's TOTALLY and utterly worth it though, haha. If we can't find a rescue when we are ready for another one, I will be extremely picky about a breeder! My girls love to hike, swim, practice agility, etc., but are happy laying around while I work too. My older boy was a puppy mill rescue at 7 (2 years ago when miller dumped old dogs in a ditch outside a shelter in Ohio) so he is a little less active, but equally awesome. We got Faith at 10 weeks (runt with digestion issues) and Lady at 11 months (owner surrender that was horribly abused). Bella, our shih tzu, was also 11 months when we adopted her from the Montreal Humane Society (owner surrender due to double cherry eye, hernia, and skin allergies). 

I love the idea of a rescue dog too - you can always rescue a puppy and/or a purebred dog. The rescue I used to foster for (and will once again too), had several litters a year. I fostered a purebred cocker spaniel litter from pre-birth to 9 weeks, and helped hand feed abandoned lab mix puppies for several weeks. DH and I took a break from fostering after 24 dogs in two years, to focus on our careers and four pups. Now we are living apart for the next year so that we can make our dream of living in a small town a reality! Just looked at a property with 42 acres... drool.


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## doggoblin (Jun 6, 2011)

I know I'm a newbie here and know nothing about canada but have you considered checking out a couple of BARF forums and see if they have any co-ops ? I know here in germany BARF seems to be the "in thing" as opposed pure raw feeding. Just thinking it may expand options.


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

I have both collies and shelties. They are both great in their own way. The sheltie is a tough little girl who can go anywhere with me and she is as active as I need her to be. She also loves to lounge around. She is not enamoured of other people. SHe tolerates their prescence but would be happier with just family. The collies on the other hand are very happy, people friendly dogs but still retain an awareness of strangers and are protective. They also are very mellow in the house but can hike, and play all day. The collies are much more easy going and the sheltie is more a Type A personality. Both are very obedient the sheltie is just quicker and mroe perfectionistic. Feeding shelties is usually half pound or less and collies are a pound to a pound and a half a day. Big difference. The sheltie is not a "little dog" though - mine can keep up with the collies any day and she is tough. Collies are quirkier and always make me laugh - they are very fun dogs, never a bad hair day, so to speak.


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## phoDOGrapher (May 30, 2011)

nortknee said:


> I'm glad to know I'm not the only one struggling with the sticker shock!
> 
> I'd love to have a CKCS, but I'm so scared of their health problems...and I'm uber paranoid when it comes to finding a breeder just BECAUSE of the health problems.
> Any breeder recommendations?


I would pick up a copy of Dogs Annual magazine - that's where I look for dogs to photograph for magazine submission, as even though I'm only looking to photograph the dogs, I will only work with ethical and reputable breeders. It's definitely worth it for health to travel if you need to.


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## SpooOwner (Oct 1, 2010)

nortknee said:


> My main issue with a BC is having no idea how much energy they truly have and if I could keep up with it. Yes, we're active, but we aren't runners (blown knees from soccer for me, and he's flat-footed) so, that's out.


From what you've said - the dog will primarily be a companion dog with a decent hike on the weekends - I would stay away from any working breed. If your dog's bored, it'll chew up your apartment. And if you do give it enough exercise, you'll just pay that much more for food.

For all that standard poodles are maligned, my girl has extraordinary energy. She gets 3-4 hours/day of _off-leash_ exercise, either hiking with me, hanging out on a farm, or playing with other dogs. That doesn't even include on-leash walks. I don't do this for my sake - she _needs_ this much exercise. She weighs 50 lbs and eats about 4% of her body weight. Portuguese water dogs are the same. BCs are supposed to be even more high energy. A well bred miniature poodle is also higher energy than a standard. The pointers and spaniels I know are also super high energy (spaniels a little less so). If you can give this to a dog, then consider a working breed. But if you read this and thought, "no f'in way," then look to a non-working breed.


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## nortknee (May 5, 2011)

SpooOwner said:


> From what you've said - the dog will primarily be a companion dog with a decent hike on the weekends - I would stay away from any working breed. If your dog's bored, it'll chew up your apartment. And if you do give it enough exercise, you'll just pay that much more for food.
> 
> For all that standard poodles are maligned, my girl has extraordinary energy. She gets 3-4 hours/day of _off-leash_ exercise, either hiking with me, hanging out on a farm, or playing with other dogs. That doesn't even include on-leash walks. I don't do this for my sake - she _needs_ this much exercise. She weighs 50 lbs and eats about 4% of her body weight. Portuguese water dogs are the same. BCs are supposed to be even more high energy. A well bred miniature poodle is also higher energy than a standard. The pointers and spaniels I know are also super high energy (spaniels a little less so). If you can give this to a dog, then consider a working breed. But if you read this and thought, "no f'in way," then look to a non-working breed.


Yeah. No way. 3-4 hours daily? When I get into the nursing program I'm applying for, that'll be practically impossible...
Less than 2 hours of PHYSICAL activity a day is what I'm looking for. But also needs to be smart enough for obedience and not eat like a horse...damn, I'm demanding! :\
Does anyone have experience with Wheatens? SO is pushing for a more "manly" dog...


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## swolek (Mar 31, 2011)

Have you considered a Cocker? An American Cocker would be cheaper to feed but an English Cocker might be more what you're looking for size-wise.

I love that our Cockers are always up for long hikes (they often like to swim, too, but ours were never exposed to much water), jogs, backyard agility courses, etc. while being calm and cuddly indoors. If there's a week that I can't exercise my dog besides short leash walks (when I'm sick, during college finals, etc.), she doesn't go crazy like other breeds I've had. She just wants to do what I want to do, whether it's go on a run or watch TV .


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

swolek said:


> Have you considered a Cocker? An American Cocker would be cheaper to feed but an English Cocker might be more what you're looking for size-wise.
> 
> I love that our Cockers are always up for long hikes (they often like to swim, too, but ours were never exposed to much water), jogs, backyard agility courses, etc. while being calm and cuddly indoors. If there's a week that I can't exercise my dog besides short leash walks (when I'm sick, during college finals, etc.), she doesn't go crazy like other breeds I've had. She just wants to do what I want to do, whether it's go on a run or watch TV .


I agree with a Cocker probably being VERY close to what the OP is looking for, I LOVE English Cockers, or maybe even a Welsh Springer! Both in the medium category and both active, but the ones Ive met have had a VERY good off switch! (I grew up with English Springer but they are a little larger, more the size of BCs)


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## Sheltielover25 (Jan 18, 2011)

liannescavaliers said:


> I'm in a small town in Ontario and prices are similar. Even if I could find deals in Ottawa/Toronto, the time and money spent to drive there makes the "deal" not so great. I do my bulk shopping in the closest city (Peterborough), and buy organ meat and sale meat at the grocery store. 30% off stickers are my friend. Unfortunately, my dogs eat what I can get for cheap... so a lot of chicken, and moose/venison since we hunt. Also I buy mackerel in bulk so they eat a lot of that. I buy pork when it is on sale and they get steak when we have a bulk pack for ourselves (I will split one between all four of them...). It is still around the same price as Acana though... I am managing to spend 20-30$ a week for four under 20 pound dogs... doesn't sound like much, I know, but it means I don't buy lunch or coffee out very often!
> 
> I went to university in New Brunswick, but only fed a cat while there so wasn't thinking much about meat prices, but I know it was expensive just for my groceries!
> 
> ...


Or you could go like me and get a Cavalier King Charles/Sheltie Mix! HAHAH We just got the DNA test back today, and let me tell you, you'd never guess. These guys look nothing like either one. They have a ton of energy though and can go and go and go. I guess I got the best of both worlds (imo) wrapped into one package! They are little, tough, weighing only 15 lbs so you'd probably prefer something bigger. Bet you'd never guess they were this breed... I thought poodle!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v649/maddy_ciccone18/DSC04801.jpg


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## doggoblin (Jun 6, 2011)

Our little Nelson is a beagle/cocker mix commonly referred to as a Bocker. Originally an accident we have heard all the owners loved their dogs and have been very happy. Only trouble we have is that the beagle in him means it's a bit difficult for recall. I get the impression his nose physically disconnects his ears :biggrin: Our trainer says this is common for beagles and has seen it before.

One thing to note is that the english cocker spaniel has been found to be a very aggressive dog, especially golden and male ones. I've heard the melanin in the golden coloration may contribute to this but have not seen any scientific studies and it seems they snap as if in a "fit". Even a cross breed like ours may inherit this "spaniel rage" according to one site I found. I only mentioned this as it came up several times when looking for out first dog with our daughter wanting a small, long eared dog and researching breeds. One site mentioning it is Dog Bite Studies | National Canine Research Council 

Whilst I don't want to be a spoilsport it is something to be aware of depending on your situation, especially if children are likely to ever be involved. I'm one who firmly believes that children should never be left alone with a dog, even our two softies but that is entirely different topic.


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

Just throwing it out there, because of most of the breeds being suggested:
Spaniels generally have high grooming needs, something to consider. It's relatively easy to learn yourself, with some equipment but otherwise plan to spend $40-$50 per month on something like a cocker in the grooming department. 
Murphy pretty much NEVER looks super duper cute, but I do him myself. He's sporting a mohawk right now.


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## 3Musketeers (Nov 4, 2010)

Sheltielover25 said:


> Or you could go like me and get a Cavalier King Charles/Sheltie Mix! HAHAH We just got the DNA test back today, and let me tell you, you'd never guess. These guys look nothing like either one. They have a ton of energy though and can go and go and go. I guess I got the best of both worlds (imo) wrapped into one package! They are little, tough, weighing only 15 lbs so you'd probably prefer something bigger. Bet you'd never guess they were this breed... I thought poodle!
> 
> http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v649/maddy_ciccone18/DSC04801.jpg


A little OT, but I think they totally look like Chinese Crested with the "powder puff" coat, would have never guessed Sheltie/Cocker lol.

Powder-Puff Crested:
http://forums.avianavenue.com/attac...020206-flossie-chinese-crested-powderpuff.jpg


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## Sheltielover25 (Jan 18, 2011)

OT but just wanted to add bingo!! They have Chinese Crested in their DNA too, 7% Chinese Crested and after researching it, they look identical to a powder puff! That's some seriously strong DNA!


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## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

Would you consider something like a whippet? They are medium sized, no grooming really, energetic but a definite off switch.. I think whippets are the smartest of the sighthounds and while they aren't trainable like a BC there are some in agility and obedience.


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## nortknee (May 5, 2011)

bishopthesheltie said:


> Would you consider something like a whippet? They are medium sized, no grooming really, energetic but a definite off switch.. I think whippets are the smartest of the sighthounds and while they aren't trainable like a BC there are some in agility and obedience.


Lol, well, I would certainly consider it. But being in Canada, winter clothing is a must for a dog. SO things clothing a dog is a Chinese form of torture...


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## KittyKat (Feb 11, 2011)

nortknee said:


> Lol, well, I would certainly consider it. But being in Canada, winter clothing is a must for a dog. SO things clothing a dog is a Chinese form of torture...


We just throw a jacket on Piper and she's good to go... diving through the snow like a train.


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