# Counter Surfing..HELP!



## BrownieM (Aug 30, 2010)

Okay. We have a problem!

My dog has become a major counter surfer within the past week. She got a hold of stuffed green peppers, baked potato and broccoli one night. Then, she got a half stick of butter and a slice of toast. Today I caught her literally "surfing" the counter even though nothing was there. Oh, and she got some chili out of a pan. (It had cooled!)

Advice?

I am fairly certain that the reward she has been getting from the counter greatly surpasses any "punishment" I would ever be willing to inflict on my dog! 

I did set up a booby trap - where I connected a water bottle full of pennies to a stick of butter. She fell for the booby trap, ran away when the noisy booby trap went off...and then went back for the stick of butter. 

What do I do? (Aside from keeping the counters clear. That is obvious, but clearly it doesn't happen all of the time. I'm only human!)


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## Tobi (Mar 18, 2011)

well... i had this for the cat ont he counters, i dunno how well it would work for a dog... they might get smart quick and just snuff it off..
Ssscat Automated Cat Deterrent - Repellents - Cat - PetSmart


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## CavePaws (Jan 25, 2011)

You could work on leave it and take it for impulse control. Work small sessions applying leave it to delicious items or even toys on the counter. Never give her what is on the counter, throw a treat on the floor. For even further control tell her to leave the treat that is on the floor and then say "Take it"

When she is counter surfing, have a bottle of pennies or pebbles or if she dislikes spray bottles spray her. Whenever she goes for the gold say "Leave it!", if she doesn't come off immediately, shake it really hard, or spray her a fair amount. Before she goes for it again collect her back to your side, reward her for attention, and return to working on the leave it. If you can't try to beat her to the item, continue shaking/spraying, you probably shouldn't chant leave it because it will only dilute the command when her mind is made up. It is important that you do not add anger into this and remain neutral. This is an aversive, not a terrible one, and there is reward in it so I would recommend this. Counter surfing in my opinion can be extremely dangerous. With all of the things we keep on counters there could be so many possibilities for harm to be done.

I would try as much as possible not to leave things on the counter when she can get to them and she isn't supervised well. I know we can't be perfect all the time, so training is really going to help out.


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## BrownieM (Aug 30, 2010)

I'm not the type to get angry at my dog. In fact, that's probably why her counter surfing has gotten so bad! She never did it until this week but now she is addicted! When she got my stuffed green pepper, broccoli and baked potato I just died laughing because as I walked into the kitchen, I saw her run away with a giant piece of broccoli falling out of her mouth. 

Now, it's not quite so funny anymore as it has happened so many times in the past 3 days. The worst part is that half of these occurrences have been while I am in the same room, working on my computer. I catch her with the corner of my eye, I say "leave it" and she backs off. She is very responsive to that command. The problem is - I want to train her to stay away from the counters even if I am not there to tell her to "leave it." 

I agree that counter surfing could be dangerous. Luckily, nothing that I have left on the counter has been harmful. We don't eat a lot of chocolate or raisins around here, so it has mostly been harmless meat, veggies and carbs! Well, and butter. Shiny coat?? Ha. Anyway, we really do keep things very clean around here. But all of us in the house have a habit of leaving our dinner plate out for a few minutes after we finish eating and before we clean up. Mindless things, really, and I do try to keep things off the tables/counters, but again, it is inevitable that things will be left out. When she ate the butter/toast, it was early in the morning and I was rushing around getting ready before enjoying my delicious buttered toast.

I guess it is just so alarming to me because up until this point she was very trustworthy. She just turned 14 months, so I think this may be part of her being an adolescent. Until this point, I could be in my room doing work and she was either by my side or in the hall napping. She never went surfing...

I will take your advice on the bottle with pennies. I actually already have it made. Luckily (well, really unluckily) she has no problem surfing while I am standing right there. This will make it easy to catch her in the act and shake the bottle. I have been giving her the cold shoulder along with a stern, but not angry, "no." She does not like the cold shoulder, but she likes food on the counter enough to risk being temporarily shunned by her mommy...


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## CavePaws (Jan 25, 2011)

This is one of those times where a spray collar is one of the most effective tools...Do I think it should be fallen upon? No, just saying though it would probably extinguish the behavior fast. If you didn't want yourself associated with it at all, you put the collar on her - if you have a window to see into the kitchen then you would easily be able to see her counter surfing and press the button. She'll probably get it. I would put the collar on and off intermittently if I did it, whether or not we were training counter surfing.

You can put tinfoil up there with something scattered across. Or pans that will fall if she gets to them. I mean light pans like baking pans...Not like a frying pan. 

I have used a spray collar before on my dog Indi. It was for aggression issues though and I stopped using it quickly because I realized it was completely useless and counter productive when it comes to fear aggression. It certainly made her freeze up though, she didn't want to do anything at all. I felt horrible. If you feel like you want to use a spray collar then that is your decision, I used a lemon spray that wasn't horrible. It was positioned on her neck to where it didn't hit her face, just fur on her neck. Dogs have a sense of smell 500x greater than ours...It doesn't need to be right at her muzzle to be unpleasant. It is by far probably the easiest and quickest way to stop counter surfing. I don't really support it much, but I'm sure it would work with most dogs. A lot of things involve you and it can be hard to fade your presence and still maintain the control.

I've caught muddy paw prints on my counters before. The dogs don't dare do it in my presence. I never really have anything missing from the counters either, though. They've taken a few things. Our dog Kiera took an entire salmon steak off of the counter top. Boy was I mad. I think you can get through it with whatever way you choose. You just have to work with her on it.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Honestly I don't like the dependence on a training tool like a spray collar or putting up booby traps. What happens when your dog doesn't have the collar on or you don't set up a booby trap? Dogs are smart, they figure out when they know they'll get into trouble for making the wrong decisions. When your dog doesn't have the spray collar on or when you don't set up the booby trap...guess who's most likely going to counter surf? So far its been so rewarding for Millie to get onto the counter. Scrumptious foods of all sorts available to her at her disposal. Its been totally worth while for her to do so...even in your presence. I feel your pain....Freya does the same thing. 

The best thing to do, is to remove the opportunity for it to happen altogether. We do this by not allowing the dogs in the kitchen AT ALL during cooking or eating times. We have them "go out" (our cue) and just chill on the couches and dog beds in the living room. For example, I will say, "out" in a very neutral tone....all the girls file out of the kitchen (it took lots of prior shaping work to get this behavior from them all...). Some of them will hover by the door, which isn't against the rules and some will go lay down on the couch or their beds. I then come out armed with yummy treats and ONLY treat the dogs who are settled and laying down on their beds. And dog that is left standing or hovering at the door loses out on yummy treats. I also use what is called a "jackpot" which is 1 tiny treat after another for about 10-30 seconds solid (rapid fire treats). A jackpot isn't an open hand full of treats. Its one at a time handed to them. Its you having control over the "goods" that means so much to the context. I do a jackpot when a dog who doesn't normally do exactly what I want when they figure it out. So that behavior is solidified in their mind, like "OH...thats what you wanted me to do...I totally get it now"

Something like this takes a long time to work. Even through generous jackpots and on the spot timing we are still working on this with Freya. Especially since the behavior was so well self-reinforced for her on multiple occasions (all kinds of food to get into on the counter of her previous home- poor space management skills by her previous owners). Consistency and patience is what it takes to work on something like this. But the result is worth it because a dog that figures out what is best for themselves is much better than a dog that is forced to succumb to what is best through coercion.


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## SerenityFL (Sep 28, 2010)

DaneMama said:


> I also use what is called a "jackpot" which is 1 tiny treat after another for about 10-30 seconds solid (rapid fire treats). A jackpot isn't an open hand full of treats. Its one at a time handed to them. Its you having control over the "goods" that means so much to the context.


Hey! That's how I reward the hoodlums when we do recall, they come back immediately, sit at my feet and because I'm so dang pleased with them, I do what you call the "jackpot". It TOTALLY works! I just started doing that about two weeks ago...decided one treat wasn't enough, I wanted to drive the point home. What a difference.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

It's amazing how "stingy" people are with their treats, and how amazed they are at the response of a jackpot. I happen to be one of those people! In a "total recall" class a jackpot is a main tool to get dogs to come every single time. I've only added using jackpots for the last few months and they really make a huge difference.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Showers of treats works great, as long as the dog is hungry. Or there's not a squirrel running in front of him. Or any other distraction that is more interesting than food. If you have an extremely highly food-motivated dog, that will work most of the time.


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## CavePaws (Jan 25, 2011)

DaneMama said:


> Honestly I don't like the dependence on a training tool like a spray collar or putting up booby traps. What happens when your dog doesn't have the collar on or you don't set up a booby trap? Dogs are smart, they figure out when they know they'll get into trouble for making the wrong decisions. When your dog doesn't have the spray collar on or when you don't set up the booby trap...guess who's most likely going to counter surf? So far its been so rewarding for Millie to get onto the counter. Scrumptious foods of all sorts available to her at her disposal. Its been totally worth while for her to do so...even in your presence. I feel your pain....Freya does the same thing.
> 
> The best thing to do, is to remove the opportunity for it to happen altogether. We do this by not allowing the dogs in the kitchen AT ALL during cooking or eating times. We have them "go out" (our cue) and just chill on the couches and dog beds in the living room. For example, I will say, "out" in a very neutral tone....all the girls file out of the kitchen (it took lots of prior shaping work to get this behavior from them all...). Some of them will hover by the door, which isn't against the rules and some will go lay down on the couch or their beds. I then come out armed with yummy treats and ONLY treat the dogs who are settled and laying down on their beds. And dog that is left standing or hovering at the door loses out on yummy treats. I also use what is called a "jackpot" which is 1 tiny treat after another for about 10-30 seconds solid (rapid fire treats). A jackpot isn't an open hand full of treats. Its one at a time handed to them. Its you having control over the "goods" that means so much to the context. I do a jackpot when a dog who doesn't normally do exactly what I want when they figure it out. So that behavior is solidified in their mind, like "OH...thats what you wanted me to do...I totally get it now"
> 
> Something like this takes a long time to work. Even through generous jackpots and on the spot timing we are still working on this with Freya. Especially since the behavior was so well self-reinforced for her on multiple occasions (all kinds of food to get into on the counter of her previous home- poor space management skills by her previous owners). Consistency and patience is what it takes to work on something like this. But the result is worth it because a dog that figures out what is best for themselves is much better than a dog that is forced to succumb to what is best through coercion.


I agree with you. I don't like falling upon spray collars either. But I put it out there for BrownieM to chose to use or not, it does work. If you use the spray collar improperly, ie: only put the spray collar on for training opportunities, then it won't work at all. In the absence of the spray collar she MIGHT learn that she can get away with whatever it was she was punished for. What you do when you use a spray collar is you put it on for days intermittently. Be as neutral as possible about it, don't spray it for anything else AT ALL. When you practice counter surfing is the ONLY time you spray. This will reduce the chance of her associating the spray collar with the punishment, as she has been wearing the spray collar for a good week now and nothing like that has happened EVER. So where the heck did that lemon spray come from? When Millie gets off of the counter after the spray, BrownieM would want to move in and reward just like you said, with a jackpot. When a behavior is extinguished it isn't likely to happen ever again and by giving treats after Millie gets off the counter she is solidifying the behavior of being on the floor - making it more rewarding than the counter was, if you use a spray collar there is going to be a VERY stark difference. If the spray collar is used at the perfect moment and effectively then it will most likely work to stop her from trying it again.

I know it can be done through other methods, Danemama. And I agree, it is way better to use positive reinforcement with no aversives to teach a dog how to make the right choice. That is why I said I don't use it for things like this. I don't use it period, really, and my clients don't use them when they are training with me. Whether they use them or not at home is their business, really. I've made my choice not to use them, I doubt I'll ever find much of a use for them with my current dogs. I'm happy about that.


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## chowder (Sep 7, 2008)

Shade was a horrible counter surfer when we first got him 6 months ago. He would eat anything left on the counter.....sticks of butter, cake, lick the dirty plates, anything. We started first by leaning a baby gate up against the counter where the dirty dishes were piled. The first time the baby gate fell over on him, he flew out of the room! Of course, Shade is extremely noise sensitive. After that, we just kept leaning the baby gate against the counter. He couldn't get to the counter without bumping the baby gate, and he wasn't going to risk knocking that over again. Soon we didn't even have to put the baby gate up anymore. Now we can even leave the trash bag out and he won't go near it.

With the cats on the counter at night, we laid duct tape upside down on the counter. After touching the sticky part with their feet once, they quit jumping up on the counter. You have to anchor it so it doesn't wrap around their hair. I don't know if this would work on dogs or not, we didn't have to resort to this with Shade.


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## pandaparade (Dec 29, 2010)

Have you heard about "its yer choice" 

It really helped with my dog's surfing problem.

I almost died when my dog got a hold of the butter, and probably gained 3 lbs.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

pandaparade said:


> Have you heard about "its yer choice"
> 
> It really helped with my dog's surfing problem.
> 
> I almost died when my dog got a hold of the butter, and probably gained 3 lbs.


We were a little dense with a foster dog I had last year, and he got 3 sticks of butter over a period of about a week. I am not too fast on the update sometimes, gotta put that butter up.


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## BrownieM (Aug 30, 2010)

Thanks for all of the responses! 

Do you want to know something interesting? I can leave Millie's breakfast or dinner in a stainless steal bowl right on the counter and she won't touch it. She will sit there and stare at it while I do my morning routine. (This often happens because we only have 1 crate and Henry might be eating first while Millie waits). Anyway, I think it is interesting that she leaves the most desirable thing - a big hunk of raw meat - alone but steals other things. I feel like there is a reason for this and it might be the answer to stopping the crime! :wink:

You see, she has amazing impulse control if she knows it is something she shouldn't have. She knows she can't steal her food because she knows if she _waits_, she will get her food. I can place her bowl of food in front of her in her crate and say "wait" and she will wait until I say, "okay". If I tell her to "leave it", she is conditioned to leave whatever that item is. We did a lot of "leave it" work as a pup, and she will leave anything on the floor and walk right by. Anyway, she doesn't seem to associate other food items on the counter as being things she shouldn't have. I think I need to somehow train her that these count too.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

pandaparade said:


> Have you heard about "its yer choice"
> 
> It really helped with my dog's surfing problem.
> 
> I almost died when my dog got a hold of the butter, and probably gained 3 lbs.


:hail: :hail: :hail: :hail: :hail:

If I could thank you a million times I would!!! The "it's YER choice" game is essential to raising a dog right. It's one of the best training "tools" I have to share with people


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

BrownieM said:


> Thanks for all of the responses!
> 
> Do you want to know something interesting? I can leave Millie's breakfast or dinner in a stainless steal bowl right on the counter and she won't touch it. She will sit there and stare at it while I do my morning routine. (This often happens because we only have 1 crate and Henry might be eating first while Millie waits). Anyway, I think it is interesting that she leaves the most desirable thing - a big hunk of raw meat - alone but steals other things. I feel like there is a reason for this and it might be the answer to stopping the crime! :wink:


I think she does this because you've conditioned her well to sit and wait politely for her meals, which is fantastic! BUT that doesn't carry over to all other contexts, like to food you're preparing for yourself. Sounds to me like she has an awesome foundation but needs a little work with inpulse control. Her normal food might seem like the best thing in the world and something she would go after in a heartbeat, but dogs always want what they can't have. Like the food you prepare for yourself, even if it is just cooked veggies.


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## Tobi (Mar 18, 2011)

pandaparade said:


> Have you heard about "its yer choice"
> 
> It really helped with my dog's surfing problem.
> 
> I almost died when my dog got a hold of the butter, and probably gained 3 lbs.


I have heard of this i just could never remember what it was called THANK YOU!!!


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

yes, dogs are so incredibly literal. We picked up a very old Jack Russell wandering down the street and he was marking all over the house - so I would piont out to him he couldn't pee on one chair leg, and he would never do it again - but he would pee on the other three. We had to do everyone one pee mark at a time.

And my own dog - now that we are out off leash with him far away from me I thought I could just say "sit" and he would "sit" wherever he was - nope, I had taught him to sit next to me so if I called "sit" to him he thought it meant sit next to my leg. So we had to go through the entire process again, only at a distance. It was quite eye-opening.

I taught him alot of things I didn't realize, without even knowing it. I'm sure your dog doesn't associate her food bowl as being part of the whole FOOD thing. It's different, just waht you taught.


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## SerenityFL (Sep 28, 2010)

xellil said:


> yes, dogs are so incredibly literal. We picked up a very old Jack Russell wandering down the street and he was marking all over the house - so I would piont out to him he couldn't pee on one chair leg, and he would never do it again - but he would pee on the other three. We had to do everyone one pee mark at a time.


Snort. HAHAHAHA, now that is funny. I'm quite a literal person myself so I can totally understand this. And I'll definitely keep it in mind with my two hoodlum outlaws.


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## KittyKat (Feb 11, 2011)

pandaparade said:


> Have you heard about "its yer choice"
> 
> It really helped with my dog's surfing problem.
> 
> I almost died when my dog got a hold of the butter, and probably gained 3 lbs.


This is awesome! I'd like to try this with my dog and food. I was able to "claim" various things as mine (the newspapers) but random objects on the floor have been tough. 

We've trained other behaviours as well.
She isn't allowed in the dining room when we eat... she sits on her cushion and waits for us to be done... i'm going to expand this to staying out of the kitchen when making food as well... having a cat twirling around my legs is enough as is.


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## SilverBeat (Jan 16, 2011)

pandaparade said:


> Have you heard about "its yer choice"
> 
> It really helped with my dog's surfing problem.
> 
> I almost died when my dog got a hold of the butter, and probably gained 3 lbs.


I just did this with Wallaby, and it was amazing to see how fast he "got it"! I was able to drop treats right in front of his face after only a couple of minutes!


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## pandaparade (Dec 29, 2010)

I love me some Susan Garrett! Glad you all are happy with the video


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