# What is Necessary?



## SilverBeat (Jan 16, 2011)

Being a new dog owner I feel like there has been a lot of information thrown at me, some of it I asked for but most of it I didn't. One thing that really unnerves me is making decisions for my pet's health. I am used to rabbits and guinea pigs, which are very fragile and you take every precaution necessary, and jump at the SLIGHTEST sign that something is wrong.

So I want to know, what is your opinion of what's necessary when it comes to...

*Vaccines*
None?
Only as a puppy?
Routinely?
Rabies only?
A select few?
Why?

*Parasite Control*
Frontline/Advantix?
Heartgard?
Interceptor?
Others?
Natural remedies?
None?
Why?

*Supplements*
Please note what kind of diet you feed- raw, commercial raw, kibble, canned, homecooked, etc
Fish Oil?
Vitamin E?
Natural supplements like chicken/turkey feet?
Others [I don't know much about supplements]?
Why?

*Vet check-ups*
Annually, no matter what?
Only when minor problems arise?
Only when major problems arise?
ETA: Bloodwork?
Why?

Other stuff I am probably forgetting?

Just to clarify, this is not intended to turn into a debate [heated or lukewarm]... I am just nosey.


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## Tobi (Mar 18, 2011)

*Vaccines*
Only as a puppy, is what i would do for mine, I don't believe that they need boosters every year and didn't plan on it for my pup. The only one i will get is rabies and that is just so we can keep him out with us 
Routinely? no
Rabies only? After the initial rounds of vaccines as a puppy.

*Parasite Control*
Frontline/Advantix? no
Heartgard? Yes, we do every 30-40 days so we can keep the warranty in the event that he does come down with Heartworms.
Interceptor? no
Others? We use Comfortis which is a tablet, i don't like the ones you apply to the skin as i'm worried about discoloration, and reactions. 
Natural remedies? diatomatious earth for the yard to keep bugs down out there.

*Supplements*
Prey Model Raw Diet.
Fish Oil? not yet. possibly in the future depending on how much natural sources of Omega 3's we are able to find.
Vitamin E? No, I don't feel it is needed.
Natural supplements like chicken/turkey feet? Yes, they make great treats, and even a good 1/2 bone in meal with organs to keep things solid.

*Vet check-ups*
Annually, no matter what, Bloodwork etc... I often take my pup to the vet when the need arises, it is free to be seen etc so it is no big deal to take a trip there and make sure everything is okay, if it wasn't like that i would be less likely to go at every little thing.


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## Montana (Apr 10, 2011)

Great thread!! For us personally we:

-Vaccines-
I try and keep it minimal. Rabies (legally), distemper and parvo. I never had Montana as a puppy so I'm not sure the protocol of puppy vaccines and boosters.

-Parasite-
Interceptor only in the summer months when mosquito's are active and prominent.

-Supplements-
Raw fed! I give fish oil (because missy doesn't really like fish all that much), Evening Primrose oil (for flaky skin), and probiotics (helping with bad breath).

-Vet care-
Annually definitely, and when ANY problems arise that I am concerned about. Better safe than sorry!

ETA: Annual blood work I deem necessary. I've had regular blood work done with her since I adopted her last year because she tested positive for ehrlichia. Her last panel was negative, but the vet wants to do another.


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## BrownieM (Aug 30, 2010)

Vaccines - Puppy series and boosters 1 year after. After that, no more than every 3 years, less if titer proves okay. Rabies every 3 years as required by law. I may have to do bordatella yearly because I do board my dogs at kennels.


Parasite Control
Frontline/Advantix? Yes, but only between April and November. We have ticks like MAD here. My first poodle was not on preventative and got Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever and his health plummeted from that point on.

Others? Sentinel.

Supplements
I feed a homemade raw diet, basically PMR although I suppose it is *my* own version as I do feed the occasional banana, apple or leftover veggies from my dinner plate as a snack. I feed cottage cheese or yogurt when I need to bury a pill or something. Or for a light snack when I won't be able to feed the dogs for awhile. Also, they can have my leftovers as long as I consider them relatively healthy according to my own standards. Extra pizza crust, finish off my salad, etc.

Fish Oil? Yes, lots.
Vitamin E? Yes.
Natural supplements like chicken/turkey feet? I feed chicken feet.
Others [I don't know much about supplements]? I also feed Proviable, a very strong probiotic for peace of mind after Henry's bloat and Millie's previous stomach issues.
Why?

Vet check-ups
Annually, no matter what? Annually for bloodwork. I do this for my own peace of mind. Really, I do consider it to be an extra step that is not necessary considering my dogs are very young. However, I think it could be the first step in catching a health issue if it were to arise. Addison's disease is a very, very bad disease that disproportionately affects poodles. Bloodwork could possibly catch this in an asymptomatic dog. 
Only when minor problems arise?
Only when major problems arise?
Why?


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## SilverBeat (Jan 16, 2011)

Bloodwork! :doh: that is what brought about this thread and I forgot to include it! Those of you that have bloodwork done- why is it important to have done annually [or however often you do it]?

_added to original thread_


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

*Vaccines*
Boosters at 8, 12, and 16 weeks. Then MAYBE one at one year. None after that. They are effective for a very long time, and I think annual, or even every 3 years is complete overkill. 
Rabies is required by law. I still haven't done it, but am going to have to to protect my dogs from the law. 

*Parasite Control*
I use Heartguard every 60ish days in the warm months only. 
I do not do flea/tick prevention as they are not an issue where I live. 

I think this varies greatly on where you live and what is in the area. 

*Supplements*
None needed with a good PMR diet. :biggrin:

*Vet check-ups*
We go annually just because, and do blood work. Early detection of most things are the key to beating them.


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

SilverBeat said:


> *Vaccines*
> Only as a puppy?


 yes at 8, 12, 16 weeks.


> Why?


 Because after that point they are immune for life.



> *Parasite Control*
> Heartgard?


 Every 42 days (6 weeks) during mosquito season


> Others?


 Comfortitis only when fleas are seen


> Why?


 I want to keep poisons to a minimum

[


> b]Supplements[/b]
> Please note what kind of diet you feed- raw, commercial raw, kibble, canned, homecooked, etc


 I feed PMR


> Fish Oil?


 No, I feed fish


> Vitamin E?


 No


> Natural supplements like chicken/turkey feet?


 No



> *Vet check-ups*
> Annually, no matter what?


 No


> Only when minor problems arise?


 No


> Only when major problems arise?


 Yes


> ETA: Bloodwork?


 No


> Why?


 I don't believe in running to the doctor for every little thing. The greatest majority of minor problems will resolve themselves on their own. Going to the doctor "just because" is a waste of time and money. Same with blood work. That doesn't mean I don't sometimes have bloodwork done but I always have a reason when I do.


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## Angelwing (Feb 20, 2011)

When you guys say bloodwork, what tests are you doing? I wanted to get some bloodwork done on the dogs to check for nutritional deficiencies and asked my vet about a senior op panel. They said it is $300+. I thought maybe that was the wrong test because I've read in other threads where people pay something like $50-$100...

Vaccines
The 3 puppy boosters, then distemper and rabies at a year. I don't bother with bordetella. I'm undecided on when I'll be getting their next shots, but it won't be before 3 years. Might just check titers at that time and see. I'm paranoid of over-vaccinating. But I want to be safe as well.

Parasite Control
I use Revolution because it protects against heartworm, other parasites, fleas, ticks and, as far as I know, is one of the safer drugs. But I only use it from June-Nov.

Supplements
Raw.
Fish Oil? Yes, but one that doesn't have vit a
Natural supplements like chicken/turkey feet? We haven't gotten this far yet but I'm not sure if I'll feed these.
Others [I don't know much about supplements]? I'm contemplating feeding some kelp meal once in awhile.

Vet check-ups
Annually, no matter what? Yes
If a problem arises, off to the vet. Will also be going quite a bit during pregnancy. 
ETA: Bloodwork? Heartworm test and brucellosis (don't worry about unless you are breeding) are the only tests I've gotten done so far.

Tobi I want your vet, just to see my vet is a minimum of $55. I just spent a little over $450 for the one dog at the vet a couple days ago and that's for a healthy dog! (aside from an ear infection)


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## Savage Destiny (Mar 16, 2011)

*Vaccines*
I only do puppy vaccines, and then titre after that regularly. If the titres show vaccines are needed, then I do them, otherwise I don't. Rabies I do as the law demands. I just don't believe that dogs need constant vaccinating- Riddle has only needed one booster shot for distemper since her puppy shots, and none for parvo. 

*Parasite Control*
None regularly. I'm lucky- we do not have fleas or heartworm in my area. However in the summer months we travel to different areas quite a bit, so I do Heartgard in the summer. That's it! 

*Supplements*
I feed raw. For a regular diet, I would only supplement fish oil, Vitamin E, kelp and alfalfa. I feed chicken feet as a treat, but don't really consider them a supplement. Riddle is on many, many more right now due to her mast cell issues, but that's not a normal thing. 

*Vet check-ups*
Ideally I would do a yearly vet checkup, lol. Unfortunately we're at the vet with Riddle at least once a month for some thing or another. I'm a little weird about vet stuff- a lot of things I can handle myself, like puncture wounds, busted tails, cuts, torn nails, etc. But I'm hyper paranoid about anything weird like our recent spider/bug/something bite issues with Riddle and will run to the vet for a checkup. Especially since with Riddle it always ends up more complicated than it should!

Edit: As far as bloodwork goes. I don't do it often, not unless I think there's an issue. For instance I had a full panel done on Riddle when she randomly shredded a seat in my car while she was in there- it was very off, since she was four years old and never chewed so much as a shoe as a puppy. It did come back normal. I also like to do panels every few years once my animals hit the double digits, just to keep an eye out for potential problems.


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## SpooOwner (Oct 1, 2010)

OK, I'll bite, too. I don't think I'm disagreeing with anyone above, just that I'm trying to give you general information about how to decide what's right for you and your dog, and not just tell you how I do it.



SilverBeat said:


> *Vaccines*
> None?
> Only as a puppy?
> Routinely?
> ...


See this article. The idea is to get as few as possible. If your puppy shots are done at appropriate ages, then the dog should have immunity for life, or at least a very long time. Follow up with titers at 1 yr old and every 3 yrs after.

Rabies is required by law in most jurisdictions.

Bordatella is useless. I had it done because my daycare and groomer require it, but will get titers from now on.



SilverBeat said:


> *Parasite Control*
> Frontline/Advantix?
> Heartgard?
> Interceptor?
> ...


Flea+Tick - Depends on where you live. Ticks are bad in my area and year-round, so I need to apply a flea/tick preventative year-round. In other areas, you may be able to get away with only a few months, or even natural remedies. Also, different meds are more effective in different areas. In my area, Advantix is recommended. Frontline is useless. Revolution seems to work ok. See this article.

Heartworm - Again, depends on where you live. HWs can only be transmitted through mosquitos, so you only need to give this during mosquito season. I'm not sure of the differences between HW meds. My holistic vet recommended Heartgard, but it may be different in your area depending on what other parasites predominate.

Both F+T and HW meds can be given every 45 days (not every 3-4 weeks as the manufacturers recommend).

I recommend not using Revolution unless (1) your F+T season is concurrent with your HW season, and (2) the meds in Revolution are sufficient to deal with the parasites in your area. Otherwise, use separate meds.



SilverBeat said:


> *Supplements*
> Please note what kind of diet you feed- raw, commercial raw, kibble, canned, homecooked, etc
> Fish Oil?
> Vitamin E?
> ...


Many raw feeders supplement with fish (canned salmon 1-2/week works well) or fish oil + vit E. The vit E used as a preservative in some fish oils is not sufficient, so another source is necessary.

Other supplements will depend on the dog. E.g. If you have an older dog with mobility problems, chicken feet may help.



SilverBeat said:


> *Vet check-ups*
> Annually, no matter what?
> Only when minor problems arise?
> Only when major problems arise?
> ...


Annually (or semi-annually) for bloodwork.

I'm not sure what you mean by minor v. major. My rule of thumb is if something is bothering Mia for more than 2-3 days without improvement (or it seems to be getting worse), then I take her to the vet. E.g. she hurt her paw in a game of chase. After a few hours, she was still favoring it. So I was concerned and watchful, and put her on "active rest" (no jumping or running, but we still took walks and played). The next day, she was clearly getting better, so I didn't go to a vet.

On the other hand, Mia is of a breed prone to bloat. If she exhibits any signs, I would immediately take her to the vet.



SilverBeat said:


> Other stuff I am probably forgetting?


Spay/Neuter - Here are some articles to think about. Behavior+Growth, Long-term Health, Optimal Age.


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## Unosmom (May 3, 2009)

Vaccines

None? Just rabies

Only as a puppy? No

Routinely? Somewhat

Rabies only? Yes

A select few?

Why?

Parasite Control

Frontline/Advantix? No

Heartgard? 6 months out of the year (spring/summer)

Interceptor? No

Others?

Natural remedies? DE and garlic

None?

Why?

Supplements

Please note what kind of diet you feed- raw, commercial raw, kibble, canned, homecooked, etc: 

grain free kibble, canned and raw

Fish Oil? Yes

Vitamin E? Occasionally

Natural supplements like chicken/turkey feet? No

Others [I don't know much about supplements]?

Prozyme, stress free calmplex and aller-chlor for occasional allergic reaction.

Why?

Vet check-ups

Annually, no matter what? Just HW test annually

Only when minor problems arise? No

Only when major problems arise? Yes

ETA: Bloodwork? every 2 years

Why?


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## Jack Monzon (Jul 25, 2010)

PuppyPaws said:


> *Vaccines*
> Boosters at 8, 12, and 16 weeks. Then MAYBE one at one year. None after that. They are effective for a very long time, and I think annual, or even every 3 years is complete overkill.
> Rabies is required by law. I still haven't done it, but am going to have to to protect my dogs from the law.
> 
> ...


Question on vaccines: When you say "at one year," you mean when the dog is a year old, right? 

I adopted my dog when he was 7 months old, and he had all of his shots a few days before I got him. He's 19 months old now, and he's never gotten any more shots since I've had him. Should I have had more when he turned 1 (last October)? 

Also, I live in NYC, and I didn't administer any flea medication during the winter, and heartworm only every 6 weeks (Interceptor). My allergist recommended I switch him to Revolution, which is supposed to take care of fleas, ticks, and heartworm.


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

Jack Monzon said:


> My allergist recommended I switch him to Revolution, which is supposed to take care of fleas, ticks, and heartworm.


Revolution is a tripple dose of poison. You don't need heartworm meds when there are no mosquitoes. I doubt NYC has mosquitoes except during the warm months. I only give flea meds when I see fleas. Ticks are usually around forrests and trees and I don't think you have a lot of those where you live. I live in a high tick area but almost never find them on the dogs. So, Revolution prevents you from giving the poisons on an as needed basis.

If I had your dog, I would feel safe never vaccinating him again but if you want to be doubly sure you could give one more round now and not worry again. Of course rabies is required every 3 years. It's your decision as to whether or not to give that.


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## Jack Monzon (Jul 25, 2010)

RawFedDogs said:


> Revolution is a tripple dose of poison. You don't need heartworm meds when there are no mosquitoes. I doubt NYC has mosquitoes except during the warm months. I only give flea meds when I see fleas. Ticks are usually around forrests and trees and I don't think you have a lot of those where you live. I live in a high tick area but almost never find them on the dogs. So, Revolution prevents you from giving the poisons on an as needed basis.
> 
> If I had your dog, I would feel safe never vaccinating him again but if you want to be doubly sure you could give one more round now and not worry again. Of course rabies is required every 3 years. It's your decision as to whether or not to give that.


Your assumption is a logical one, but I should've said that I actually live in Queens, a block from Forest Park, which is more "forest" than "park," and there are ticks there. One of the guys I see on my walks had to deal with Lyme disease in his dog, from a tick (he also broke both of his wrists while running on the trails in the park!). What do you do for tick prevention? Or do you just deal with those when you find them?

I'm not concerned about being doubly sure on vaccinating, but when you say rabies is required every 3 years but ultimately my decision, what do you mean?


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

Vaccines:
puppy series and boosters one year later. after that, only rabies as required by law. since we don't board, no bordatella

parasite control: none, since i've not seen a flea or tick on them and heart worm is not a problem here on this side of the mountain

Supplementswe feed meat, bone and organ plus
chicken feet and trachea for glucasmine
tripe
emu oil is the only supplement they get, since they eat fish

vet check up:
once per year for blood draw and general checkup. also a tiny bit of gloating from us about their health, their fur, their teeth : )


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

Jack Monzon said:


> What do you do for tick prevention? Or do you just deal with those when you find them?


Yes, exactly. As a side note: I find MANY more ticks on me than on the dogs. I find maybe one or two a year on the dogs and find 2 or 3 or more a week on me!



> I'm not concerned about being doubly sure on vaccinating, but when you say rabies is required every 3 years but ultimately my decision, what do you mean?


I mean its your decision as to whether or not to obey the law.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

SilverBeat said:


> Bloodwork! :doh: that is what brought about this thread and I forgot to include it! Those of you that have bloodwork done- why is it important to have done annually [or however often you do it]?
> 
> _added to original thread_


we get a senior blood panel done every year because it gives us, first, a baseline of how they're doing and from then forward, a comparison....this way, we can catch things before they happen, should that be the case or we can breathe easy because all is well.

we also do a urinalysis and fecal once per year.


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## BrownieM (Aug 30, 2010)

SpooOwner said:


> Bordatella is useless. I had it done because my daycare and groomer require it, but will get titers from now on


Nice that you have that option. I do agree that bordatella is useless. Unfortunately, no kennels here will accept bordatella titers. 

Also, my holistic vet told me that the 1 year follow up vaccinations were necessary and that they could be titred and repeated no more frequently than every 3 years after. Is this not true? Can I skip the 1 year follow up vaccinations??


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## BrownieM (Aug 30, 2010)

Jack Monzon said:


> Question on vaccines: When you say "at one year," you mean when the dog is a year old, right?


I'm not puppy paws, but the 1 year follow up vaccines are done 12 months after the last set of puppy shots. After that, your dog may have lifetime immunity.


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## SpooOwner (Oct 1, 2010)

I look forward to the day when titering is more accepted.



BrownieM said:


> Also, my holistic vet told me that the 1 year follow up vaccinations were necessary and that they could be titred and repeated no more frequently than every 3 years after. Is this not true? Can I skip the 1 year follow up vaccinations??


My understanding is that it depends on when the puppy shots were done. The dog's immune system is mature by about 6 months old (I've heard 22 - 26 weeks). If the dog had two injections after this date, then you can skip the 1 yr shots and wait until 3 yrs. (Unless the law/powers that be require some sort of testing at 1 yr of age, in which case you can titer and they should come back positive for immunity).

If, however, like me, you didn't know all of this at the time and got the puppy shots when your craptastic old vet recommended, then those shots were probably useless (and actually dangerous) as your puppy was still protected by the dam's immunity. Even worse, getting those puppy shots before 6 months of age gives a false sense of security, as your dog is actually not protected against these illnesses _and_ you've increased the risk of an auto-immune disorder. Neato. Thanks, Bad Vet.

As you know, our spoos are at a higher risk for auto-immune disorders, so we have to be careful. The bottom line is: if the puppy was vaccinated before 6 months, then you'll need to repeat at 1 yr, then titer every 3 yrs. If the puppy was vaccinated at or after 6 months, then no more vaccinations are necessary and you can titer every 3 years. (Although I'd go the RFD route if I didn't live in a city and if my dog didn't go to daycare, etc.)

Here are two good articles: O'Driscoll and Truth.


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## BrownieM (Aug 30, 2010)

SpooOwner said:


> If, however, like me, you didn't know all of this at the time and got the puppy shots when your craptastic old vet recommended, then those shots were probably useless (and actually dangerous) as your puppy was still protected by the dam's immunity. Even worse, getting those puppy shots before 6 months of age gives a false sense of security, as your dog is actually not protected against these illnesses _and_ you've increased the risk of an auto-immune disorder. Neato. Thanks, Bad Vet.


Great. My situation exactly. Rabies was even done before 6 months. :scared:

So, I will do 1 year shots late this month and then titer as necessary (which may be more often than every 3 years) for doggie daycare, boarding at kennels, therapy dog international, agility, tracking, you name it.


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## CavePaws (Jan 25, 2011)

Wow, I did not know that SpooOwner...Thanks!


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