# Switching dog food! Need advice



## Artsy (Sep 15, 2012)

Hi, everyone! I'm rather new here. I've also posted over in the raw side, but figured I might as well here as well. I have a 12 year old rat terrier who is exhibiting signs of food allergy (or merely long term consumption of low quality kibble, a user here suggested) including inconsistent stools (from firm to loose to mucusy to diarrhea), constant leg and foot licking/chewing and dry skin. I want to improve her diet but I'm not sure what route I should take and want to get a variety of opinions.
I have concerns with raw including the fact that she has elderly, fragile teeth and bones may be an issue for her. Also cost and availability of meats coupled with complexity of the diet itself. I know many proponents of raw believe convenience=sacrificing a dog's health, but if I can improve her issues with a better kibble, it would obviously be easier for me.
I've done some reading through this section and it seems Wellness and Innova are the most consistently praised, however I would like some opinions on what I should try for my dog's specific issues.


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## Makovach (Jan 24, 2012)

Some one correct me if I am wrong, but don't Wellness and Innova get some of their things from China?

I know a lot of people use and recommend Fromm foods. If you can't find it locally you can get it from Mr.chewy.com with free shipping next 1-2 day delivery. I'm not much for the kibble ways, so I will let the more experienced people help you


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## 1605 (May 27, 2009)

Makovach said:


> Some one correct me if I am wrong, but don't Wellness and Innova get some of their things from China?
> 
> I know a lot of people use and recommend Fromm foods. If you can't find it locally you can get it from Mr.chewy.com with free shipping next 1-2 day delivery. I'm not much for the kibble ways, so I will let the more experienced people help you


I don't know about Wellness, but I personally contacted Innova and they do not source from China. (There's a thread around here somewhere with my post...)


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## shellbeme (Dec 8, 2010)

I, personally am not crazy about wellness and don't know much about Innova, I know I read something about them that turned me off too but I honestly do not remember what it was. I'm pretty darn picky when it comes to choosing companies though. I LOVE Fromm, I think it's a great company with great ingredients in the food but if you are dealing with a possible food allergy-it is very ingredient heavy so I would be careful with using it. We have been using the four start line but I have a dog that has not been doing well on it so we are trying Nutri Source now. 

If you think it was just low quality kibble, then go for it and see what happens but if you think it might be a specific ingredient, I would probably look for something with less ingredients. There is the Acana singles line, the Nutri Source Pure Vita that I'm using has a single source of protien-dunno if that would help but those are the kinds of things you might look for. If I am not mistaken it normally takes a couple months on a new food to really see the results of it, so I would stick with one for a couple months at least to see what happens.

Editing to add I also think raw diets are wonderful if executed correctly and I think this forum (the raw section of course) is the best place to go for advice on that (so you're in the right place for sure!). I feel like the raw posters here are well educated, but if you do choose to go that route, make sure get all the info you can first  I just don't do it for several personal reasons.


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## domika (Jul 15, 2012)

Actually I feel like most users have had so-so results with Wellness and many don't like Innova/EVO after the P&G buy out. I prefer EVO over Innova, but if P&G doesn't bother you go ahead and try Innova. If you think your dog is allergic you will need to try an elimination diet. Fromm, Acana and Orijen are popular board favorites for kibble.

If you like the raw diet but are scared of the bones, you could try a premade. I know they more expensive but if you do some digging some aren't as much as others. I found a local only pet boutique that sells raw and cooked meats for dogs which is usually between $.80 and $1.80 per pound, depending on the meat type. Novelties are more expensive than chicken and beef, etc. Premade raws are ground so it is soft like eating canned food. 

Hope my random ramblings can help you a little bit.


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## Artsy (Sep 15, 2012)

Thanks everyone for the replies. As far as an 'elimination diet', would it suffice to choose a novel set of ingredients? I have read that beef, chicken and lamb are major food allergies. I do, however, see some unique options like fish and potato kibble. Would this be a good place to start in trying to rule out things?


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## 1605 (May 27, 2009)

Artsy said:


> Thanks everyone for the replies. As far as an 'elimination diet', would it suffice to choose a novel set of ingredients? I have read that beef, chicken and lamb are major food allergies. I do, however, see some unique options like fish and potato kibble. Would this be a good place to start in trying to rule out things?


If you are looking at an "elimination diet" you will have to start keeping a detailed log of what exactly you are giving your dog including any treats. You then record what you change to, how long, etc.

Primary protein sources are usually where most people make the first change: if you're on beef, change to chicken or lamb. 

JMHO,


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## Sheltielover25 (Jan 18, 2011)

I have an e-mail somewhere from Wellness stating they get their Vitamin C, I believe it was, from China. They definitely use Chinese ingredients. I'm shocked to read Innova doesn't. I'm not sure I believe it! LOL Chinese or not, their ingredients are still not very desirable and will most likely lead to complications. The only kibble I'd recommend is ZiwiPeak. It's expensive, but my cat who is on it, who is a piggie, only eats about half the recommended dose so they suggest more food than is required so what they say will last two weeks, last us three weeks. Expensive, I agree, but pets aren't always the cheapest thing. 

The ONLY Approved Vitamin K Supplement in Pet Food This article focuses on that brand specifically. I have a rule I won't feed my pets anything that's banned for human consumption, regardless of the age group that's banned. So any kibble, which this appears to be in the Fish formula of Innova, with this ingredients is a no-no.


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## shellbeme (Dec 8, 2010)

Sheltielover25 said:


> I have an e-mail somewhere from Wellness stating they get their Vitamin C, I believe it was, from China. They definitely use Chinese ingredients. I'm shocked to read Innova doesn't. I'm not sure I believe it! LOL Chinese or not, their ingredients are still not very desirable and will most likely lead to complications. The only kibble I'd recommend is ZiwiPeak. It's expensive, but my cat who is on it, who is a piggie, only eats about half the recommended dose so they suggest more food than is required so what they say will last two weeks, last us three weeks. Expensive, I agree, but pets aren't always the cheapest thing.
> 
> The ONLY Approved Vitamin K Supplement in Pet Food This article focuses on that brand specifically. I have a rule I won't feed my pets anything that's banned for human consumption, regardless of the age group that's banned. So any kibble, which this appears to be in the Fish formula of Innova, with this ingredients is a no-no.


Seeing as how the majority of vitamins come from China, I dont' really see a way around it. I'm with you on not believing Innova gets nothing from China. I don't mean to fault the dog food companies when I say that, I really think choices are limited as far as where they can get the vitamins from. Several dog food companies get their vitamins from companies that are not in China, however those companies that put the vitamin mixes together are often supplied by China anyway. Anytime a company says they get 0 ingredients from China, I am skeptical-it may be that they are not even trying to directly decieve us, it just may be that the representative providing you the information is not 100% informed. I would love if a brand could be 100% China free, but I'm skeptical as to the possibility.


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## Sheltielover25 (Jan 18, 2011)

shellbeme said:


> Seeing as how the majority of vitamins come from China, I dont' really see a way around it. I'm with you on not believing Innova gets nothing from China. I don't mean to fault the dog food companies when I say that, I really think choices are limited as far as where they can get the vitamins from. Several dog food companies get their vitamins from companies that are not in China, however those companies that put the vitamin mixes together are often supplied by China anyway. Anytime a company says they get 0 ingredients from China, I am skeptical-it may be that they are not even trying to directly decieve us, it just may be that the representative providing you the information is not 100% informed. I would love if a brand could be 100% China free, but I'm skeptical as to the possibility.


Agreed 100%. I feel confident with Ziwi Peak's quality, but I agree, I have no way of knowing for sure. It's certainly not the correct way to feed an animal, but it's working with what I have because I haven't had success in switching to raw. I tried ALL the kibbles. I found something wrong with each one. Granted, I'm sure I was somewhat looking for something wrong, but I haven't found it yet with Ziwi Peak -- other than the inevitable of not knowing where their vitamins came from or heck, the fact I'm feeding an animal man-made vitamins as a way of getting them their nutrition!!! That just sounds so, so wrong. That's what scares the hell out of me about processed food. I have no way of knowing what they slipped in under a name that I have no clue what the heck it is. I have a rule that if I can't pronounce an ingredient, I shouldn't be ingesting it.


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## InkedMarie (Sep 9, 2011)

What foods has your dog been eating? Not just the name of the food but what particular one of that brand.


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## Artsy (Sep 15, 2012)

She has eaten Pedigree Small Breed Nutrition for Dogs for years. I supported the company primarily because of their shelter work and affordability (I'm well bellow poverty line), but recently switched to the best thing I could find in the super market here; Nutrish Chicken and veggies, which I am aware is only barely a step up.


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## DaViking (Sep 27, 2011)

Artsy said:


> She has eaten Pedigree Small Breed Nutrition for Dogs for years. I supported the company primarily because of their shelter work and affordability (I'm well bellow poverty line), but recently switched to the best thing I could find in the super market here; Nutrish Chicken and veggies, which I am aware is only barely a step up.


How much are you comfortable spending per month?


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## Unosmom (May 3, 2009)

wal-mart recently started selling a food called Pure Balance which has ok ingredients and is only couple dollars more. 

You can also look into whole earth farms, hi tek naturals, 4health, and healthwise. You can even get this formula of nutri source with auto ship is $43 for 40 lbs, which is only little over a dollar more per lb. 

http://petbest.com/products/Super-Performance-Chicken-and-Rice-Formula-Dry-Dog-Food/073893212133


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## Artsy (Sep 15, 2012)

I'm currently looking at Acana Pacifica Grain-Free. Particularly because it has ingredients she has not been exposed to before and may help me narrow down any possible allergic issues. While price is an issue, I don't want to spend hundreds of dollars and a year gradually stepping up in price and quality until I find something that works, you know? If something like Acana still bothers her after a few months, I may have to go raw.


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## Brian 6 (Jul 22, 2012)

Artsy said:


> Particularly because it has ingredients she has not been exposed to before and may help me narrow down any possible allergic issues.


This is exactly right. Find a food with novel ingredients. Also stop all treats, human food etc... otherwise you won't know if it is the new food or some treat that is causing the problem.

I had a client that had spent hundreds of dollars on allergy testing and shots. A lot could have been learned form the history. This dog scratched year round. In a climate that has winter, this is highly suggestive of food allergy. (So is the loose stools so I think that you are on the right track).

Long story short, we changed the diet and the scratching stopped.

However (here is the point of the story) a month later the owner came back because the dog was scratching. Turns out the husband had started giving the dog his toast crust at breakfast. This was enough to get the dog scratching as it turns out one of the things that she was allergic to was wheat. The point here is that is the husband had not stopped feeding the toast crust we would have never figured out what the dog was allergic to. We would have tried food after food with no result.


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