# Found it! The problem with beyond.



## 3Musketeers (Nov 4, 2010)

Ever since Purina came out with their "beyond" product, I've been looking at the ingredients and trying to find something wrong with it, because, come on, it's Purina and they are more than well-known for making bad foods. 
For them to suddenly make something decent looking, which is actually decent didn't seem quite right.

So I think I finally figured it out...

Purina ONE® beyOnd™ brand Adult Dog Food

INGREDIENTS
Chicken, chicken meal, whole oat meal, whole barley, *soybean meal*, whole brown rice, animal fat preserved with mixed-tocopherols (form of Vitamin E)

Aren't soybeans high in protein? If that's the case, then wouldn't that make "soybean meal" as bad as "corn gluten meal" or "rice gluten" as an ingredient?
Since this is a protein booster then maybe that "chicken meal" is nothing more than an ounce of chicken in there.

Not to mention their non-chicken formulas all have chicken meal and maybe half an ounce of whatever other meat they say they're made of.

They never fail to disappoint, and by removing "corn gluten meal" they can trick consumers into thinking this is a decent product, which, it isn't >:[


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## KittyKat (Feb 11, 2011)

Soybeans are very high in protein.


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## Tobi (Mar 18, 2011)

Indeed it seems they are just replacing one bad filler with another, and they will continue the trickery!


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## cprcheetah (Jul 14, 2010)

Not to mention Menadione is in it as well....I was looking at it last night at Walmart.


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## Serendipity (Aug 13, 2010)

And it still contains that awful animal fat!


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## SamWu1 (Oct 15, 2010)

The primary problem with Beyond is simply that it's manufactured by *Purina*.


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## Jackielyn (May 27, 2009)

SamWu1 said:


> The primary problem with Beyond is simply that it's manufactured by *Purina*.


:amen: i agree!


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## 3Musketeers (Nov 4, 2010)

cprcheetah said:


> Not to mention Menadione is in it as well....I was looking at it last night at Walmart.


Ahh, is that the synthetic vitamin K? Totally missed it, I forgot why it's so bad too >_<.




SamWu1 said:


> The primary problem with Beyond is simply that it's manufactured by *Purina*.


Lol, thus my suspicions.




Serendipity said:


> And it still contains that awful animal fat!


Eww, man how did I miss that? Not nice seeing Fluffy on the ingredients D:


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## pandaparade (Dec 29, 2010)

Animal fat meaning rendered cats and dogs or what?


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## Sapphire-Light (Aug 8, 2010)

pandaparade said:


> Animal fat meaning rendered cats and dogs or what?


I'm curious to know too, for what I heard it was the fast food restaurant grease? :twitch:


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## Serendipity (Aug 13, 2010)

pandaparade said:


> Animal fat meaning rendered cats and dogs or what?


That's never been confirmed. However, the problem with animal fat is that it doesn't tell you what animal it came from. And because this is Purina, I suspect some pretty disgusting sources


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Serendipity said:


> That's never been confirmed. However, the problem with animal fat is that it doesn't tell you what animal it came from. And because this is Purina, I suspect some pretty disgusting sources


Unfortunately, since it's so unregulated we just have to guess. Worse, would be animal fat shipped over from China. Which it probably was.


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## pandaparade (Dec 29, 2010)

Has it not been confirmed .. really? I coulda sworn I saw a video about it, and caught on tape filming but I don't know it could of been edited or something, but it looked pretty real. Ugh it was so sad.


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## 3Musketeers (Nov 4, 2010)

Can't say for sure, but there have been reports of kibbles with "meat and bone meal" and "animal fat" containing phenobarbital. Which is the drug used to euthanize animals, primarily pets I guess.


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## GermanSheperdlover (Nov 15, 2009)

Animal Fat


AAFCO: Obtained from the tissues of mammals and/or poultry in the commercial processes of rendering or extracting. It consists predominantly of glyceride esters of fatty acids and contains no additions of free fatty acids. If an antioxidant is used, the common name or names must be indicated, followed by the words "used as a preservative".

Note that the animal source is not specified and is not required to originate from "slaughtered" animals. The rendered animals can be obtained from any source, so there is no control over quality or contamination. Any kind of animal can be included: "4-D animals" (dead, diseased, disabled, or dying prior to slaughter), goats, pigs, horses, rats, misc. roadkill, animals euthanized at shelters, restaurant and supermarket refuse and so on.


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## GermanSheperdlover (Nov 15, 2009)

You missed all kinds of bad stuff, whole barley, caramel color, salt, choline chloride and sodium selenite. These 4 are all salts - salt, choline chloride, potassium chloride and sodium selenite but sodium selenite has been proven to cause kidney and liver issues in dogs...In large amounts garlic can be toxic, but it would take a lot, but it does help with any flea issues. What do you think the fish oil is preserved with, LOL one guess only. And just what is natural flavor, LOL...The skin and seeds of tomato's are again possibly toxic to dogs in high amounts.

Ingredients

Chicken, chicken meal, whole oat meal, whole barley, soybean meal, whole brown rice, animal fat preserved with mixed-tocopherols (form of Vitamin E), dried beet pulp, dried egg product, natural flavor, fish oil, caramel color, salt, dried carrots, dried tomatoes, dried apples, calcium phosphate, potassium chloride, choline chloride, zinc sulfate, Vitamin E supplement, ferrous sulfate, manganese sulfate, niacin, calcium carbonate, Vitamin A supplement, calcium pantothenate, thiamine mononitrate, copper sulfate, riboflavin supplement, Vitamin B-12 supplement, garlic oil, pyridoxine hydrochloride, folic acid, Vitamin D-3 supplement, calcium iodate, biotin, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of Vitamin K activity), sodium selenite.


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## 3Musketeers (Nov 4, 2010)

GermanSheperdlover said:


> You missed all kinds of bad stuff, whole barley, caramel color, salt, choline chloride and sodium selenite. These 3 are all salts - salt, choline chloride and sodium selenite but sodium selenite has been proven to cause kidney and liver issues in dogs...In large amounts garlic can be toxic, but it would take a lot, but it does help with any flea issues.
> 
> Ingredients
> 
> Chicken, chicken meal, whole oat meal, whole barley, soybean meal, whole brown rice, animal fat preserved with mixed-tocopherols (form of Vitamin E), dried beet pulp, dried egg product, natural flavor, fish oil, caramel color, salt, dried carrots, dried tomatoes, dried apples, calcium phosphate, potassium chloride, choline chloride, zinc sulfate, Vitamin E supplement, ferrous sulfate, manganese sulfate, niacin, calcium carbonate, Vitamin A supplement, calcium pantothenate, thiamine mononitrate, copper sulfate, riboflavin supplement, Vitamin B-12 supplement, garlic oil, pyridoxine hydrochloride, folic acid, Vitamin D-3 supplement, calcium iodate, biotin, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of Vitamin K activity), sodium selenite.


Owch, (didn't know about the salts and kidney issues), thanks for the info ;P
So if it just says salt it's alright, but avoid choline chloride/sodium selenite? Also, why is the barley so bad? Isn't it just a whole grain?
Wow, there's more wrong with this food than I thought hahah. (Plus the vitamin K cprcheetah mentioned)


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## GermanSheperdlover (Nov 15, 2009)

Talk about fillers, barley is one. It contains nothing good as far as nutrients go,, unless you and your dog wanna brew some beer. If I were giving numbers to ingredients, I'd give whole meats 10's, Oatmeal 6, corn -4, caramel color -8 and barley about a -1.... It also contains gluten.


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## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

Just curious, GSL, why you would give points for Oatmeal? Oatmeal is just a filler too.. seeing as dogs don't have the necessary digestive components to extract nutrients or digest it at all. All it does is make your dog's poop bigger..


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## GermanSheperdlover (Nov 15, 2009)

bishopthesheltie said:


> Just curious, GSL, why you would give points for Oatmeal? Oatmeal is just a filler too.. seeing as dogs don't have the necessary digestive components to extract nutrients or digest it at all. All it does is make your dog's poop bigger..


Oatmeal is very good for dogs and they have to put something in dog food other than meat. It has been proven to help control heat disease and lower cholesterol in humans. If it is good for humans wouldn't you think it would be good for dogs??? Sure their digestive system are much shorter and they have some different enzymes. Sure peas would be better, but I have no problem feeding my dog a little oatmeal. No, it would not make your dogs poo bigger. Where do you get the information that it can't be digested by dogs?? or is that yours or somebody else OPINION, because there is absolutely nothing to back that up... If you really feel that way then please leave me a link to this study and I'll be more than happy to read it. A FILLER would be an ingredient that your dog gets nothing from.. I would leave more links but I see that someone would find fault in them, even when they are factual...Have a good one and make sure that those giving you information can also give you that facts to back it up and that it isn't just some ones Opinion..

Oatmeal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Is instant oatmeal just as healthy as traditional? - CNN.com

Scroll down to the bottom of this link.

The Dog Food Project - Identifying better products

Be sure you read about the author I KNOW SHE KNOWS a heck of a lot more than anyone giving out information here in this forum...Some here think they know more than someone who studied for over 16 years... Better Dog Care, Better Dog Nutrition - Creating Healthy Lifestyles for Canines: About Sabine


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## Tobi (Mar 18, 2011)

i see 2 links that have nothing to do with canine nutrition, most know what oatmeal, and instant oatmeal is, the third i found only a small bit of information on carbohydrates and carbs... lol the argument that its good for people so it must be good for dogs is i don't know how to say it... Bogus. Where are the hard facts that oatmeal is digestible in canines? you have shown nothing saying that they can, so why is it that you discount people saying that it can't be processed?

What i don't agree with.
What to look for: 
►Whole ground grains such as rice, oats, barley, millet etc., potatoes, sweet potatoes, peas 
►Corn often gets an undeserved bad reputation. While it is not acceptable as a main source of protein in a dog food (as it is used in combination with corn gluten), as a source of carbohydrates it is no better and no worse than other grains in terms of nutritional value and digestibility. The starch part of corn is highly digestible but the whole ground product has a higher fiber content than other grains (around 7%), which results in slightly larger stools - often incorrectly interpreted as lack of digestibility. Unless an individual dog is intolerant or allergic to corn, there is no need to avoid products which include it in reasonable amounts.

The other side.
In the Waltham Book of Dog and Cat Nutrition 
"There is no known minimum dietary carbohydrate requirement for either the dog or the cat. Based on investigations in the dog and with other species it is likely that dogs and cats can be maintained without carbohydrates if the diet supplies enough fat or protein from which the metabolic requirement for glucose is derived."

She has a few flaws in her articles IMO.


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## Jackielyn (May 27, 2009)

If you really want to get down to it...oatmeal is not good for humans either...the advent of agriculture pretty much did us in as a species...our paleolithic ancestors never ate oatmeal or any other grain for that matter. They ate meat, veggies, fruits and nuts. You almost always never saw diabetes, certain cancers, cavities, bone malformations, and autoimmune diseases in our ancient ancestors, since agriculture was developed is when the HUGE spike in such things even started becoming prevelant. 

So, I myself don't eat oatmeal or grains (ok, I get to cheat!) and don't see a huge advantage to feeding them to my canine companion...just sayin'


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## CavePaws (Jan 25, 2011)

> If it is good for humans wouldn't you think it would be good for dogs???


:rofl:
I really did chuckle when I saw that. Dogs and Humans are completely different species with completely different anatomy.

Just think about the difference in our skull shape and the difference in our teeth and you should come to a realization that some things we are built to eat our dogs aren't built to eat.


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## Celt (Dec 27, 2010)

GSL---You recommended the link of the dog food project and yet you've kinda picked out what you wanted from it. She said that any whole grain was good, including barley which you stated was worthless except for making beer (she also includes corn which seems to be objectionable to just about everyone). As for your comment of if it good for humans it would be good for dogs too, ummm, no. Grapes, rasins, garlic, and tomatoes are good for people, but these are generally not good for dogs. The author also made the statement that whole grains (especially corn) have indigestable fiber which would increase the size of the poop, but that this was not an indicator of how well the grain was "used".


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## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

All plant material contains cellulose. Dogs cannot break down cellulose (or at least enough of it) to extract the nutrients within the plant cell. Therefore, dogs don't need plant material of any kind, and that makes all grains useless for dogs. You say oatmeal is healthy for people, but people are designed as omnivores to extract nutrients from plants as we can break down the cellulose through both chewing (dogs cannot chew) and in the saliva (amylase, dogs don't have in their saliva) and also the stomach/intestines.. again, more amylase. Dogs need only meat, bone and organ. All kibble needs a carbohydrate source to bind the ingredients together but none of them are helpful in any way to the dog.


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## 3Musketeers (Nov 4, 2010)

Well to be a grain, barley actually looks pretty good. Regardless, my belief is that carbs of any kind should be avoided wherever possible (for dogs and cats) but I wouldn't rate oatmeal higher than it:

Barley:
Nutrition Facts and Analysis for Barley, pearled, cooked

v.s.

Oatmeal:
Nutrition Facts and Analysis for Cereals, oats, regular and quick and instant, not fortified, dry [oatmeal, old-fashioned oats, rolled oats]

I really don't see anything wrong with Barley in itself being used as a binder in the food. Corn is a different story, but only because most corn is genetically modified -_-. If it were that rare regular, plain old corn, it wouldn't be bad either.
Doesn't make the food any better, it's still crap imo, LOL, but I won't flag that ingredient.

Edit: actually it should be noted that in about double the amount of Barley than of Oatmeal, it has almost half of the glycemic load and less protein. Just mentioning it since it's plant proteins.


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## KittyKat (Feb 11, 2011)

3Musketeers said:


> Well to be a grain, barley actually looks pretty good. Regardless, my belief is that carbs of any kind should be avoided wherever possible (for dogs and cats) but I wouldn't rate oatmeal higher than it:
> 
> Barley:
> Nutrition Facts and Analysis for Barley, pearled, cooked
> ...


Interesting.
Does that make Barley more digestible then oatmeal for dogs?


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## 3Musketeers (Nov 4, 2010)

KittyKat said:


> Interesting.
> Does that make Barley more digestible then oatmeal for dogs?


I don't know... anyone else wanna take a stab at that? ;P


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## Tobi (Mar 18, 2011)

KittyKat said:


> Interesting.
> Does that make Barley more digestible then oatmeal for dogs?


oats, or barley they are all the same when it comes to animals they are hard for them to digest. all these nutritional facts are for people, have there ever been clinical tests done on digestibility of these items in dogs? aside from kibble companies saying that it's the right choice?


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## GermanSheperdlover (Nov 15, 2009)

I just think you people like to argue just to argue....... You people are unreal !!!! Now look at the proof I have and his name is Tony, PS...I don't feed any foods with oatmeal in it. PS, again and the most ridiculous post I have ever read ever is the one stating oatmeal is not good even for humans. UNREAL!!!! What a stupid statement that is!!!


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## jdatwood (Apr 13, 2009)

GermanSheperdlover said:


> I just think you people like to argue just to argue....... You people are unreal !!!! Now look at the proof I have and his name is Tony, PS...I don't feed any foods with oatmeal in it. PS, again and the most ridiculous post I have ever read ever is the one stating oatmeal is not good even for humans. UNREAL!!!! What a stupid statement that is!!!


I thought Scientific proof was required Jess? I'm confused now...

Lately you've been throwing out links to marketing material or studies for humans calling that your "proof" but always requiring US to provide scientific proof.

Now all the proof you require is Tony? Hmm....

I personally like to have a discussion with someone that's open to learning. I'm still trying to figure out what you're trying to accomplish here with your weekly drive by posts that you don't bother responding to once people have shown an interest or an alternate view....?

If Tony is proof that your kibble is good I have 6 times more proof that Raw is superior 
Emmy
Bailey
Shiloh
Akasha
Zuri
Freya
:wink:


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## Jackielyn (May 27, 2009)

GermanSheperdlover said:


> I just think you people like to argue just to argue....... You people are unreal !!!! Now look at the proof I have and his name is Tony, PS...I don't feed any foods with oatmeal in it. PS, again and the most ridiculous post I have ever read ever is the one stating oatmeal is not good even for humans. UNREAL!!!! What a stupid statement that is!!!


Holy crap that was rude and uncalled for! You really aren't willing to learn anything new? Do you really think someone would spout off something like that just for grins and giggles? Do a little research! It's called a Paleolithic diet...google it! Since you are so good at copying and pasting...there is life outside of what the government and advertising tells us!


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## GermanSheperdlover (Nov 15, 2009)

LOL.... LOL.... LOL.... LOL.... I love it, like I could learn something from THHEEEE worst forum on the internet.. LOL,,,, Oatmeal, I will never forget that statement, NEVER, ever!!!! Bashing Dog Food Project, Yeah, I am gonna learn something here, LOL......


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## Ania's Mommy (Feb 8, 2009)

GermanSheperdlover said:


> LOL.... LOL.... LOL.... LOL.... I love it, like I could learn something from THHEEEE worst forum on the internet.. LOL,,,, Oatmeal, I will never forget that statement, NEVER, ever!!!! Bashing Dog Food Project, Yeah, I am gonna learn something here, LOL......


Then... just... go away. If we're all so dumb then why do you even bother? It seems like all you come her for is to tell us how ignorant we all are and say stuff like, "if you only KNEW what I do for a living, you'd feel really stupid right about now." 

Since you're such a wealth of information and so big time in the kibble world, I'm sure that the members here who are interested in what you have to say can find you elsewhere.

Otherwise, you might just try being constructive and act with a little tact.


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## GermanSheperdlover (Nov 15, 2009)

jdatwood said:


> I thought Scientific proof was required Jess? I'm confused now...
> 
> Lately you've been throwing out links to marketing material or studies for humans calling that your "proof" but always requiring US to provide scientific proof.
> 
> ...


LOL,,,, Ya and I bet their super coats match up to Tony's... LOL, NOT EVEN CLOSE, AND I NEVER SAID ANYTHING any time in any post about """"Scientific proof """' see you people read into things what you want to read into them and not what is actually said, go reread my posts. and WHO SAID ANYTHING ABOUT RAW??? Now are ya gonna try to ban me, again, because I state the truth and YOU and most people can't handle the truth. But since we are on the "raw" subject, ONCE AGAIN IN THE CANNED FOOD SECTION,,, PROVE IT'S BETTER!!! LOL, Lets see those coats match up to Tony's or his buddies the cats,,, LOL- http://3toestony.shutterfly.com/ come on lets see it !!!!!!!!! and make them CLOSE UP'S. Just like mine...


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## RachelsaurusRexU (Sep 4, 2010)

Holy erratic, Batman!


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## SilverBeat (Jan 16, 2011)

I think he blew a fuse. Seriously? That was really inappropriate.


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## Tobi (Mar 18, 2011)

GermanSheperdlover said:


> LOL,,,, Ya and I bet their super coats match up to Tony's... LOL, NOT EVEN CLOSE, AND I NEVER SAID ANYTHING any time in any post about """"Scientific proof """' see you people read into things what you want to read into them and not what is actually said, go reread my posts. and WHO SAID ANYTHING ABOUT RAW??? Now are ya gonna try to ban me, again, because I state the truth and YOU and most people can't handle the truth. But since we are on the "raw" subject, ONCE AGAIN IN THE CANNED FOOD SECTION,,, PROVE IT'S BETTER!!! LOL, Lets see those coats match up to Tony's or his buddies the cats,,, LOL- http://3toestony.shutterfly.com/ come on lets see it !!!!!!!!! and make them CLOSE UP'S. Just like mine...


Yikes... 

You seem to be angry about something there is no need to be angry about, take a step back and read some of what people are saying, they aren't saying anything hurtful to you, it has been a nice learning discussion for many. you were simply asked why oatmeal is good for dogs and you took a big defense to it and really didn't answer it, you just posted a few links about the benefits of oatmeal in people which has NO bearing on canines. Then you go on to say that you do NOT feed oatmeal to your dog in another post, I'm a bit confused with who was arguing just to argue. 

I personally cannot see a difference in a GSD coat in a picture and any other picture of a healthy dog on a computer screen. I know you can't because you do not have any special power that i do not. This forum is for information, the internet is full of false information and you seem hellbent on spreading terrible information.


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## jdatwood (Apr 13, 2009)

GermanSheperdlover said:


> I NEVER SAID ANYTHING any time in any post about """"Scientific proof """'


Oh come on.. do I really have to waste my evening quoting your own words? I can't count the number of times you've discounted raw because we have no "scientific proof". How many times have you asked me PERSONALLY where my "proof" was??



GermanSheperdlover said:


> Now are ya gonna try to ban me, again, because I state the truth and YOU and most people can't handle the truth.


I'm not going to try doing anything to you. Bill would be the one to ban you and fortunately for you I don't find your antics insulting enough to ask Bill to ban you.

Truth? I live my life by the truth. I have nothing to hide. After a year and a half we don't even know your name, what you do, whether you're a man or woman (I know you're a male now though due to your mature PM)



GermanSheperdlover said:


> But since we are on the "raw" subject, ONCE AGAIN IN THE CANNED FOOD SECTION,,, PROVE IT'S BETTER!!!


Mother nature already proved it for me Jess. Thanks for your interest though. I'm still waiting on the kibble industry to prove their products are superior.



GermanSheperdlover said:


> come on lets see it !!!!!!!!! and make them CLOSE UP'S. Just like mine...


There's PLENTY of pics of my dogs ALL OVER THE PLACE. Feel free to look at them and discuss... again, I have nothing to hide. It's pretty well known who I am. Who are you? :wink:


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## CavePaws (Jan 25, 2011)

Jackielyn said:


> Holy crap that was rude and uncalled for! You really aren't willing to learn anything new? Do you really think someone would spout off something like that just for grins and giggles? Do a little research! It's called a Paleolithic diet...google it! Since you are so good at copying and pasting...there is life outside of what the government and advertising tells us!


Lol, I think if we really want to get down to it we weren't meant to eat much meat at all. It is probably fairly risky for us to digest raw meats because of the bacterial load. I have no problem eating any of my meats really super rare, even hamburger meat which is apparently a no-no. Man made fire and it didn't change a thing internally for us so we weren't meant to eat anything other than raw unprocessed foods. If you look at our teeth they're pretty much meant for vegetation and not much more. I thrived on a vegetarian diet and I am sure if I had cut out milk products and grains I would have thrived even more. Oh, and apparently people had better feet back in the day when they didn't have shoes. I certainly believe it.


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

GermanSheperdlover said:


> LOL.... LOL.... LOL.... LOL.... I love it, like I could learn something from THHEEEE worst forum on the internet.. LOL,,,, Oatmeal, I will never forget that statement, NEVER, ever!!!! Bashing Dog Food Project, Yeah, I am gonna learn something here, LOL......


LOL LOL LOL OMG LOL LOL HA HA HA HA LOL ....GTFO.


Seriously, GSL, if you hate dfc so bad, then go. Be gone. Get lost. You don't add anything to the forum except angry immature rants. If you find this to be "THEEEE worst forum on the internet" then why do you spend your time here? Seriously? Don't you have anything better to do, like find something you ENJOY to do?





GermanSheperdlover said:


> LOL,,,, Ya and I bet their super coats match up to Tony's... LOL, NOT EVEN CLOSE, AND I NEVER SAID ANYTHING any time in any post about """"Scientific proof """' see you people read into things what you want to read into them and not what is actually said, go reread my posts. and WHO SAID ANYTHING ABOUT RAW??? Now are ya gonna try to ban me, again, because I state the truth and YOU and most people can't handle the truth. But since we are on the "raw" subject, ONCE AGAIN IN THE CANNED FOOD SECTION,,, PROVE IT'S BETTER!!! LOL, Lets see those coats match up to Tony's or his buddies the cats,,, LOL- Message come on lets see it !!!!!!!!! and make them CLOSE UP'S. Just like mine...


Cool. You have a dog with a perty coat. And your point is.....? So do all of us. 
OMG DID YOUR CAPS LOCK KEY MAKE YOU FEEL POWERFUL?!
ps- putting a million " around something does not make it any more accurate.


Can I just say how amusing it is to see the claim that if it's good for people, it's good for dogs? really? I mean.... really now? Oh dear.....

And since Jon already started a list of "proof" for raw, I'll add to it:
Annie
Zailey
Champ
Murphy
And Ironclad (yes, Ironclad) the kitty. 

But, you have Tony. GO YOU!


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

Any point this thread is going to go nowhere productive at this point. Closing Now.


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