# 1st PMR meal *pic heavy*



## Missy Mae (Nov 8, 2011)

Well it actually is her second because I was up late finishing up some biology stuff (that class is really starting to frost my cupcake!) so I did not get to see it since I overslept :tsk: My 14 yr. old daugther, who did all of the research and does ALL of the gross parts (like chopping up liver), is the reason the ferrets were started on raw. She was 11 when she started her research. She's been nagging me about the dogs since we got them! 

She did try to gulp it when I was trying to take pictures (it was to big for her to do that) so I put on my zoom lens and sat really far away from her. After I moved she stayed on the towel and chewed it really well. I kept waiting for the crunching bone part, because to me that means she is chewing her food really well, and sure enough she did, YEAH for no gluping!:becky: From start to finish it lasted 15 minutes lol

Her second meal went well.

This is what she had









I imagine if she could talk (in words) she'd be telling me to back off, she told me in body language for sure! It does not show in the picture very well but she was trying to "sneak" away. 









She had a hard time getting started so my daughter scored the meat for her (we did this with the ferrets at first too)


















Really working it (chewing)


















cracking bone


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## Kat (Jul 12, 2011)

Thats awesome! That drumstick looks pretty big, how many ounces was it? And how much does your dog weigh?


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

SOOO cute!!!:biggrin:

She looks SOOO happy!!:thumb:

I plan on taking a TON of pictures of my new puppy's first raw meal, since I failed to with everyone else....it is just all SOOOO fun!!:biggrin:


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

you can see on her face.....dude....this is not what we usually have.....keep up the good work.


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## Missy Mae (Nov 8, 2011)

Kat said:


> Thats awesome! That drumstick looks pretty big, how many ounces was it? And how much does your dog weigh?


She is 12.4 lbs. I do not have an accurate weight on it but the scale said 4 oz. I went to weigh it and realized my scale is not working right. I have not used it in two years but when I put it away it worked. I did not think to check to make sure it was still working before I started. I have a digital scale that I am waiting on to arrive. That drumstick is the same size that I gave my ferrets when they first started and I do realize that ferrets are not the same as dogs. I probably should have made that two meals not one. It has been a little over three hours since that drumstick. She did poo after the first meal and it "went" fine, a little loose. She is currently playing fetch with my daughter.

I was going to use party wings and mini-drummies but I am pretty sure she will swallow them whole and not chew them!


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## Kat (Jul 12, 2011)

Ya thats a bit too much for her. My pug is 16 pounds and I feed her 4 oz per meal, which is too much for some dogs her weight, but she is very active and if I dont feed her 4 oz she loses weight quickly. 

I started Ruby on 2.5 oz per meal, and then brought it up to 3 in the beginning. When overfeeding, the dog can get mushy poops. I dont know the math behind it because I got help from others on the forum for the amount to feed Ruby, but it does sound like you have to cut back, 4 oz is way too much I think. Im sure someone else will chime in about the appropriate weight to feed her.


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

Kat said:


> Ya thats a bit too much for her. My pug is 16 pounds and I feed her 4 oz per meal, which is too much for some dogs her weight, but she is very active and if I dont feed her 4 oz she loses weight quickly.
> 
> I started Ruby on 2.5 oz per meal, and then brought it up to 3 in the beginning. When overfeeding, the dog can get mushy poops. I dont know the math behind it because I got help from others on the forum for the amount to feed Ruby, but it does sound like you have to cut back, 4 oz is way too much I think. Im sure someone else will chime in about the appropriate weight to feed her.


It **COULD** be too much for her, doesn't mean that it IS:wink: (my Dixi is only about 8-10lbs, Im just guessing, and gets 10oz per day.)

GENERALLY, and to start out, you want to start them around 2% of their perfect adult weight...then go from there!
So....(and Im guessing that she is an adult and perfect at 12.4lbs) 12.4 pounds = 198.4 ounces, then 198(ounces) x .02 = 3.96(ounces).....but that is a start out...and a GUIDELINE!!!:thumb:


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## Missy Mae (Nov 8, 2011)

Scarlett_O' said:


> It **COULD** be too much for her, doesn't mean that it IS:wink: (my Dixi is only about 8-10lbs, Im just guessing, and gets 10oz per day.)
> 
> GENERALLY, and to start out, you want to start them around 2% of their perfect adult weight...then go from there!
> So....(and Im guessing that she is an adult and perfect at 12.4lbs) 12.4 pounds = 198.4 ounces, then 198(ounces) x .02 = 3.96(ounces).....but that is a start out...and a GUIDELINE!!!:thumb:


Missy Mae was a rehome from an "oops" litter. The people we got her from could not remember when she was born for sure but they did say she was born in March, so we picked March 14 as her birthday. Missy Mae is a Shih Tzu/Minature Poodle mix, 8 months old and was 12.4 lbs last weekend accroding to the Vet's scale. I think she could be 16 lbs as an adult, unless she is an adult now? My understanding is that she is considered a puppy until she is a year old, or is that not correct? The Vet said that she has all of her adult teeth and she went into heat on Oct 2, well that is when I noticed a bit of blood. She currently is having a false pregnancy!

*ETA*
She was eating Wellness Small Breed Puppy. I would put her daily amount down in the morning and then pick it up at about 5'ish. She never finishs what the bag says she should be eating but she is not underweight and looks good, according to the Vet. She gets a couple of dehydrated duck treats (think strips) as treats and as rewards after getting groomed, maybe 1 oz a day. She really does not "look" for food, unless Daddy is home because he sneaks her bites of his dinner.


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

Missy Mae said:


> Missy Mae was a rehome from an "oops" litter. The people we got her from could not remember when she was born for sure but they did say she was born in March, so we picked March 14 as her birthday. Missy Mae is a Shih Tzu/Minature Poodle mix, 8 months old and was 12.4 lbs last weekend accroding to the Vet's scale. My understanding is that she could be 16 lbs as an adult, unless she is an adult now? My understanding is that she is considered a puppy until she is a year old, or is that not correct?


Ok, so you need/want to feed her to her projected perfect adult weight!

So we will say 16lbs, 
16 pounds = 256 ounces
256(ounces) x .02= 5.12(ounces)

Again, that is at the lower end of the scale, and is the starting point of what and how much to feed her!:smile:

(And yes, generally, around 12 months old is when a small dog becomes an adult!:thumb


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## Missy Mae (Nov 8, 2011)

The 5.12 oz is total for the day, right? Does that include her dehydrated duck treats?


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

Missy Mae said:


> The 5.12 oz is total for the day, right? Does that include her dehydrated duck treats?


Correct for that is a DAILY feeding, and yes, that would include any/all treats...although it is HIGHLY suggested to hold off on anything other then meals for at least the first few weeks when starting raw, that way if something happens (loose/firm stool wise mostly) it is easy to know the reason, because all they have been given is their meals!:smile:


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## Tobi (Mar 18, 2011)

Great photo's!! looks like a natural! :biggrin:


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## Missy Mae (Nov 8, 2011)

Oh my! Missy Mae is not going to be pleased to hear that, no duck treats! I see some major stink eye and pouting coming my way!

*ETA*
I went to pull some meat out to defrost and it is enhanced! First I feed her way to much and then I feed her way to much of enhanced meat! She has been fine for 12 hours now. Not drinking extra water, was very playful tonight and went to bed at her normal time, which is when Daddy goes to bed.

It was not this hard with the ferrets


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

Missy Mae said:


> Oh my! Missy Mae is not going to be pleased to hear that, no duck treats! I see some major stink eye and pouting coming my way!
> 
> *ETA*
> I went to pull some meat out to defrost and it is enhanced! First I feed her way to much and then I feed her way to much of enhanced meat! She has been fine for 12 hours now. Not drinking extra water, was very playful tonight and went to bed at her normal time, which is when Daddy goes to bed.
> ...


UGH...ya..you have to watch out for the enhancement! They sneak it in their any way they can!!
I actually just had this talk with my co-worker, she is TOTALLY for enhancement...cause "HEY it makes it taste better!!" ummm....yaaa......I dont think that is ok or a reason to inject our meat with stuff!!! :suspicious:

ANYWAYS....Ive made the mistake a couple times, thankfully with time to figure out another plan.....but it really does suck!


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

Kat said:


> Thats awesome! That drumstick looks pretty big, how many ounces was it? And how much does your dog weigh?


my pug weighs, i'm sure, over 20 lbs.....he is solid like linebacker....so he gets about 6-8 ounces per day....

he walks a mile a day....every day.....and if i am unable to walk them, they go on the treadmill for 45 minutes....

he doesn't gain, he doesn't lose LOL

but i agree.....a twelve pound dog and a four oz. drummie...might be a little too much.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

Missy Mae said:


> Oh my! Missy Mae is not going to be pleased to hear that, no duck treats! I see some major stink eye and pouting coming my way!
> 
> *ETA*
> I went to pull some meat out to defrost and it is enhanced! First I feed her way to much and then I feed her way to much of enhanced meat! She has been fine for 12 hours now. Not drinking extra water, was very playful tonight and went to bed at her normal time, which is when Daddy goes to bed.
> ...


did we get you to join the washington state wazzu co op?


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## Missy Mae (Nov 8, 2011)

Missy Mae (when on kibble) was like clockwork when it came to her poop. She always went twice a day. Once at about 7 pm and once really early in the morning, like 4 am or so. I am a nightowl so I am usually up late. We have our first poop about 24 hours after the first raw meal. Her poop is different already. More formed, less stink, and lighter in color.











magicre said:


> did we get you to join the washington state wazzu co op?


No we did not get me to join the washington state wazzu co-op :heh: But I am pretty sure that I would be easy to convince to join lol I have never joined one before so I might need a bit of hand holding at first! 
When I first starting feeding the ferrets raw I got a 28 cubic feet (I think that is how you say it) stand alone freezer so I have the room for meat. Plus I have two fridges in the house. We tried just one but with all of the skinkids it just was not enough room!

*ETA*
What should I expect or be on the lookout for with overfeeding and overfeeding enhanced meats?


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## Missy Mae (Nov 8, 2011)

Well we are on day two and I went out and bought a digital scale, rather than waiting for mine to arrive, and made sure she only got 5 oz today. She is acting like a starved women. She got into the trash several times today, got on her dad's nightstand and tried to steal his cookies (has never done this before), kept going to where I used to keep the kibble and sniffing around.

I hope tomorrow is better!


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

it's going to take both of you awhile to get used to lesser amounts...but a little bit packs quite a punch.

put the trash can where she can't get it. 

once she's transitioned, teach her to leave the trash can alone...

you two will be fine.


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## Missy Mae (Nov 8, 2011)

Day three
She is such a brat!
*sigh*


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

Missy Mae said:


> Day three
> She is such a brat!
> *sigh*


raw isn't going to cure that LOL


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## Missy Mae (Nov 8, 2011)

I wish it would, heck for that I'd put my skinkids on raw lol

She even more insistent that I am starving her to death! Her poop today was 1/4 of what it was yesterday and white. I was going to take a picture but one of the kids cleaned it up before I could. I'll take pictures tomorrow! I tried to give her two meals and cut the drumstick in half. She swallowed it whole, with no chewing. Then proceeded to beg from everyone she came in contact with. I hate, really hate, begging behavior. Tomorrow I was thinking of giving her one meal and giving her the whole drumstick, which I know she will chew.

It feels like I am constantly on her for these behaviors (trashcan, scavenging, begging from anyone other than dad) that she has never done before! 
Told ya she's a brat!
*sigh*


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## kathylcsw (Jul 31, 2011)

Some of the turkey necks I got were way to big to be a single meal for Lola. I gave them to her anyway with plans to take it away once she ate half. There was no need because she stopped eating on her own before she finished it. She often leaves kibble in her bowl too so she seems pretty good at self regulating.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

Missy Mae said:


> I wish it would, heck for that I'd put my skinkids on raw lol
> 
> She even more insistent that I am starving her to death! Her poop today was 1/4 of what it was yesterday and white. I was going to take a picture but one of the kids cleaned it up before I could. I'll take pictures tomorrow! I tried to give her two meals and cut the drumstick in half. She swallowed it whole, with no chewing. Then proceeded to beg from everyone she came in contact with. I hate, really hate, begging behavior. Tomorrow I was thinking of giving her one meal and giving her the whole drumstick, which I know she will chew.
> 
> ...


this is a time thing.....i don't know if she begged before...my shih tzus did and they were free range fed their kibble....they weren't lucky enough to be on raw.

but, if the stool is 1/4 normal size, then say hallelujah.....but if it's white, then she's adapting very well and you could probably start giving her a little boneless chicken.....

i don't know that she is ready for a half of a drumstick, since she seems to be a gulper....i think she might be ready for chicken breast with the bone in for one meal and some chicken breast for the other....

that's why we changed from buying chicken parts to whole chickens...that way, the poop determined the cut of meat we fed them....course, our dogs took a little longer.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

kathylcsw said:


> Some of the turkey necks I got were way to big to be a single meal for Lola. I gave them to her anyway with plans to take it away once she ate half. There was no need because she stopped eating on her own before she finished it. She often leaves kibble in her bowl too so she seems pretty good at self regulating.


you're so lucky to have a self regulater.....i gave my pug a whole chicken to see what he'd do. before i could get it out of his mouth he had eaten at least three days worth. oops.


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## Missy Mae (Nov 8, 2011)

magicre said:


> this is a time thing.....i don't know if she begged before...my shih tzus did and they were free range fed their kibble....they weren't lucky enough to be on raw.
> 
> but, if the stool is 1/4 normal size, then say hallelujah.....but if it's white, then she's adapting very well and you could probably start giving her a little boneless chicken.....
> 
> ...


I did the one meal today of a drumstick. She chews it very well and takes her about 5 minutes to eat it. She is not having any poop issues or stomach issues. I think she has an iron stomach lol

The only person that she begged from before was her Dad. That is because he trained her to do so by feeding her off of his plate, which I have been trying to stop! I think that I am just not trusting myself and what I think she should have or need, and I need to stop doing that. I am going to get some whole fryers for her so that I have more choices about how to give her meals. My biggest problem is how to get the bone into her, in big enough pieces that she wont gulp it, but small enough that I can add some boneless meats too!


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## Missy Mae (Nov 8, 2011)

kathylcsw said:


> Some of the turkey necks I got were way to big to be a single meal for Lola. I gave them to her anyway with plans to take it away once she ate half. There was no need because she stopped eating on her own before she finished it. She often leaves kibble in her bowl too so she seems pretty good at self regulating.


I have a feeling that if I gave it to Missy Mae that way she would eat until it was gone!


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