# Switching from prepackaged raw



## hvtopiwala (Feb 26, 2013)

im currently feeding my guy natures instinct raw and want to switch him to real raw. i know i should be feeding 80% muscle meat, 10% bone, and 10% organ meat. now heres the catch, my girlfriend feeds him in the morning and i feed him in the evening, and she cannot stand the sight of raw meat (unless its breast or ground), i have no problems at all lol. so, what is the best way to go about this? should i be getting my butcher to ground up a whole chicken for me and use that? does that live up to the 80/10/10? or can i use some ground chicken, throw in a leg for the bone, and get some ground liver or something??? any help would greatly be appreciated!


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## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

Have you given any thought to doing just one meal a day? In the evenings preferably for obvious reasons. How old is your pup and how much does he weigh?


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## Felix (Oct 9, 2012)

In this situation I would also suggest doing one meal a day. Your dog will thank you for it! 
Ground in bone isn't suggested since it does nothing for their teeth, also, you can't just grind up a chicken, there will need to be organs added (kidney, liver, testicle, pancreas, etc)


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

Once a day is about all most adult dogs need to be fed.

I wouldn't grind any of it. You miss out on a lot of the benefits of raw that way. Give chicken quarters or drumbsticks whole. That way they are getting the teeth cleaning benefits of bone. Most of what you will feed are the same things you and your girlfriend would prepare for yourself, so maybe she will be Ok with it. Organs won't come for about three months so maybe by then she will be Ok with those.


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## barneysmom2510 (Oct 12, 2011)

I can sympathize with her I am not a fan of raw meat but I forced myself to get used to it now I cannot believe the things I will hack up. Maybe like the others said one meal until she can get used to it. After your around it for awhile it is not as bad although sometimes in the morning not my fave. I do bone free in the morning maybe she can do the same. What about having it all set so she just has to give it to them.


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## hvtopiwala (Feb 26, 2013)

hes about 10 months old weighing in at 65 pounds. shes a vegetarian which is why shes so disgusted by meat haha...but like, she doesnt mine tossing in raw chicken quarters and things, i think its more if theres like chicken feet, guts, etc.. that would gross her out. i will be prepacking everything so all she has to do is dump the bag into the bowl too. since he is already on a raw diet from Natures Instinct, would organs and everything else be ok to add from the start or will i need to wait? i have also heard some people putting a raw egg in there as well, is that needed?


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## hvtopiwala (Feb 26, 2013)

also how much liver should he be getting?
is this a good menu if i feed once a day:
1 leg quarter
1/2lb beef heart
tablespoon beef liver


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## Felix (Oct 9, 2012)

hvtopiwala said:


> also how much liver should he be getting?
> is this a good menu if i feed once a day:
> 1 leg quarter
> 1/2lb beef heart
> tablespoon beef liver


How big is your dog? Activity level? Looks ok, except I wouldn't do the liver every day. When I was feeding raw we did organs twice a week one was liver and the other was kidney. You can do more than a tablespoon. On my organ days, about 1/4 of the meal weight was organ. The kidney was a whole kidney.


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## hvtopiwala (Feb 26, 2013)

hes 65lbs right now, normal activity, walks a few miles a day.


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

hvtopiwala said:


> also how much liver should he be getting?
> is this a good menu if i feed once a day:
> 1 leg quarter
> 1/2lb beef heart
> tablespoon beef liver


Honestly, I'm not really sure about switching from premade to pmr, but I think if it were me I would start back at the beginning and follow the pmr guide of starting with bone in chicken, move to turkey and so on. Maybe someone who knows will chime in on that.

If you choose not to, what you have listed looks ok. Be sure though to rotate your meals. It's not like premade, where you can feed the same thing at each meal. With pmr you will need to feed at least four different proteins, in order to get all the needed nutrients. You can feed liver and other organs daily in small amounts (very small) or weekly in larger amounts. 

You also need to add some source of omegas, like fish oil. You can give that in capsule or liquid form.


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## hvtopiwala (Feb 26, 2013)

yeah i definitely plan on rotating proteins every week, is that enough?

and i plan on using fish oil capsules as well.

right now i rotate his premade raw weekly as well.


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

I would say for now that's enough. As he continues to grow you may need to increase. Also watch his weight in the meantime and adjust accordingly.


Also, watch poops. If digestion seems ok, don't worry about it. But if poops seem runny then you may need to go back to the beginning of PMR, and start over with chicken and move on protein by protein. Just keep an eye on things.


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## pogo (Aug 28, 2011)

hvtopiwala said:


> yeah i definitely plan on rotating proteins every week, is that enough?
> 
> and i plan on using fish oil capsules as well.
> 
> right now i rotate his premade raw weekly as well.


Definitely do one meal a day if going on to pmr in your situation.

Personally i would not stick with one protein a week (unless when first starting) i do a different protein or mix of them every day and give them biggest variety i can


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## hvtopiwala (Feb 26, 2013)

oh ok, if i was starting from scratch with pmr, what would my menu be for this guy? same thing just without the liver and beef heart?

i plan on rotating proteins daily once i can get him fully started on pmr and his poop is good.


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

If you go PMR, then yes, you will start with bone in chicken, skin, fat and any organs removed. For you size dog, I would start with backs or quarters. Slowly add skin and fat back on. Then after chicken, move on to turkey, fish, (optional, really) and then to pork, beef and other red meats. Just step by step, and after about three months intro organs. 

We can all help you as you go along.


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## hvtopiwala (Feb 26, 2013)

ok ill start with the chicken quarters to make sure im doing it right...

based on calculations, he should be getting around 1.5lbs a day, so that would be a chicken quarter plus some extra chicken meat? is the chicken quarter too much bone?


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

In the beginning a quarter is just right in the bone. In fact, for some its not enough and backs are the best way to start. I personally used quarters, but backs are actually recommended. You want the bone in the beginning. As you go along with the transition through different proteins you will back off the bone. But again, the amount of bone will vary from dog to dog. Right now, for the next couple of weeks with chicken don't worry, just give boney cuts.


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## hvtopiwala (Feb 26, 2013)

is that enough overall meat? like 1 chicken quarter a day? or should i be doing 1 in the AM and 1 in the PM? or supplement with additional meat?


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

In the beginning, meat wise it's fine. You can give one am and one pm if you want, or you can try two in one meal. Too much and you risk runny poops and vomit/regurgitation. Remember, this is just in the beginning. As you go along, meat will increase and bone decrease. By the time you are fully transitioned through all the proteins you will be feeding mostly meat, some bone and some organ. No reason to rush, nothing needs to be added. 

After a couple of weeks of things going well, you can add some fish oil capsules. But is all you will need to add.

Right now, just think bone in chicken. You will be doing fine.


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## hvtopiwala (Feb 26, 2013)

ok cool thanks!

just for information purposes (i like information!), what will i be feeding in the future that would be less bone? would i still feed chicken quarters in my rotations or would it be a different part of the chicken? 
and then, im assuming in rotations, it would be like pork ribs, pork picnics, turkey legs, w/e beef i can find..


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

Yep, you can still feed chicken in your rotation as well, both boneless and bone in. Anything boneless is fine, beef pork hearts, roasts,breast meats,briskets,etc... pretty endless. Pork ribs are good, and have lots of meat and bone. I just picked up a couple hundred pounds of boneless beef on a free score. It's stuff like cube steaks,new york strips, tenderloins,briskets and roasts. All boneless. All my deer is boneless as well, like tenderloin and cube steaks. I also have chicken quarters, turkey wings and some pork ribs I add for bone in meals during the week as well.


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## hvtopiwala (Feb 26, 2013)

ok awesome! so if im feeding like boneless beef, what do i add as the "10% bone" agent? just like a piece of rib like u said?


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

You don't have to give bone at every meal. Mine (with exception of one) get bone maybe three times a week. I have one who needs it every other meal because she's really sensetive with her digestives. So when you get to that point, you could try say, turkey drumsticks, then the next three days boneless meals. Then a meal of some pork ribs. Then another three days of boneless, then some chicken quarters for a meal and so on. Any edible bone is fine, and by edible I mean non weight bering from large animals like cows, buffalo etc.. 

The 10% is just a guide, so once you know your dog's digestion you will know if you need to add more or less bone. It really varies by the individual dog.


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## hvtopiwala (Feb 26, 2013)

went to my local butcher shop, $0.61/lb for chicken leg quarters, are those the same as normal chicken quarters? 

nowi got a feel of what different meats cost, what bone-in and bone-out meats are usually the cheapest/good to feed? a lot of the beef and stuff was over $3/lb unless i was looking at the wrong stuff...

i want to get a list of things i can feed from different protein sources so i can can figure out what to feed (add on if you can and specify if its bone-in or out):

Chicken:
chicken quarters
chicken breast bone-in/out
ground chicken

Beef:
Beef ribs
ground beef

Pork:
Pork picnics
pork ribs
ground pork


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

hvtopiwala said:


> went to my local butcher shop, $0.61/lb for chicken leg quarters, are those the same as normal chicken quarters?
> 
> nowi got a feel of what different meats cost, what bone-in and bone-out meats are usually the cheapest/good to feed? a lot of the beef and stuff was over $3/lb unless i was looking at the wrong stuff...
> 
> ...



Yea, leg quarters and chicken quarters are the same thing. The thigh and drumstick connected. You will feed turkey before the red meats, altough it doesn't hurt to go ahead and stock up on some if you find a good price.

As far as beef ribs, you can try but they are REALLY hard compared to pork ribs and unless you have a giant breed, or a super strong chewer yours may not be able to actually chew through them. None of my aussies can, so I don't feed any beef bones. Boneless though, thats good.


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## hvtopiwala (Feb 26, 2013)

so tried his first raw meal, he was good for like 20-30 minutes trying to figure out how to eat it (kept licking and using his front teeth). then for like 10 minutes he figured out how to use his back teeth, then for some reason he just kept nudging it all away like he didnt want it anymore...i fed him in his crate, so he kept nudging it all over his create. should i fast him so hes kinda forced to eat it out of hunger?


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

I would juts offer for 15 minutes or so and take it away and offer again later until he finishes. He doesn't seem to understand that is his meal yet.  I don't like fasting dogs but if he chooses not to eat that is his problem. 

Cuts of meat - any and all parts of chicken, turkey, rabbit, goat, sheep.

Beef - we feed primarily bony cuts from ribs and neck, hearts and liver because they are less expensive. During the summer ribs go on sale.

Pork is mostly ribs, neck, hearts, tongue, brain, also because they are least expensive and yet rich cuts. 

We also feed a bit of green tripe.


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## hvtopiwala (Feb 26, 2013)

hmm ok. yeah hes always been somewhat of a picky eater.

i want to feed him once a day so technically hes gonna fast for 24 hours until his next meal.


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## hvtopiwala (Feb 26, 2013)

for feeding salmon oil, i heard u need to supplement with Vit-E as well, im feeding 2 capsules of these daily: CVS 100% Natural Wild Alaskan Salmon Oil Omega-3 Softgels - CVS pharmacy and the ingredients list that it has Vit-E, so do i still need to supplement them?


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

It doesn't hurt to supplement with E, but a lot of people just feed plain salmon oil. I feed oil with E if what I use is in stock. If not, it's plain salmon oil. So, I guess for me it's a rotational thing.


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## hvtopiwala (Feb 26, 2013)

ok cool!

btw hes figured out how to chomp down everything  right now hes getting a chicken quarter and a piece of chicken breast (a total of 1.5lbs) once in the morning. poop is solid, a lil bit crumbly. but im giong to continue chicken for another week or so just to make sure its all consistant then i will start altering his diet.


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