# sick dog or paranoia?



## thegoodstuff (May 12, 2010)

Nicky has been acting a little out of character, just doesnt seem himself for a couple days. He hasnt been eating his first meal of the day when I put it down for about 2 weeks. Sometimes he will eat half of it. If I make a big deal out of it and tell him its thegoodstuff and continue to jabber, he will finish it. By bedtime he has eaten all of his 2 daily meals. He's been eating the same food since November. He is usually always hungry because he only gets 2 cups of food a day, (thats fine, he gets on the scale regularly, his weight remains constant). As of yesterday, he was his energetic self, pulling as usual (before correction) on 1 hour walk and doing his best to get me to bounce some tennis balls off the wall. This morning on a 15 minute walk in 75° weather, he was not pulling and stayed right at my side (no, that is not the result of training), seemed "tired". He was panting mildly but Ive seen him do that on warm days before. Heart worm meds to start soon. Didnt go for the water after the walk. He was at the vet a week ago for a torn ear by another dog. Vet gave him a quick once over (listened to heart and lungs, palped his belly, looked in his mouth). Today he finished a week of cephalexin so the ear didn't get infected, it appears to have healed nicely. Lots of tail wagging, but that never stops.

Its also quite possible Im the sick one.

EDIT: Watching him climb the stairs, I just noticed he seems to be very sore. He hasnt run on that TTA knee (or the other knee for that matter) for almost a week. Climbing very slowly, no problems yesterday. Something is definitely not right.


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## Kat (Jul 12, 2011)

I could be wrong, but can't certain meds cause muscle soreness? Maybe it was the ear meds?


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## BearMurphy (Feb 29, 2012)

i was going to say the meds might explain why he isn't eating like his usual self but I don't know about muscle soreness.

Murphy always drinks water after a walk so I agree that is also suspicious.

Can antibiotics make his stomach to hurt and cause all these behaviors? I know some anti-inflammatories can cause stomach ulcers but I don't think antibiotics do. Maybe give your vet a call just to play it safe.

Has he been tested for lyme lately?


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## thegoodstuff (May 12, 2010)

BearMurphy said:


> i was going to say the meds might explain why he isn't eating like his usual self but I don't know about muscle soreness.
> 
> Murphy always drinks water after a walk so I agree that is also suspicious.
> 
> ...


He had a SNAP4 last week in January. No lyme but positive for anaplasma. I gave doxy for 2 weeks. Some of the same intermittent signs as in January. 

_Loss of appetite_ - but he eats a full days food by the end of the day.
_Lethargy_ - he wasnt following me around like usual. That could be this one or the next one.
_Lameness, reluctance to move_
_pain_ - I was 'hugging' him in a way I often do and out of nowhere, he yelped something fierce, but subsequent prodding, palping and working of joints had no such reaction. Same thing in January, I held him by his collar so he wouldnt follow another dog and he yelped that time. I couldnt get him to do it again by palpating his neck/throat. He could turn his head to one side (followed the treat) but not the other side (wouldnt follow the treat)

He started with the morning meal thing at least a week before before starting the antibiotic for the ear injury. Hell, Im not big on breakfast either.


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## Rvent (Apr 15, 2012)

I know cephalexine can cause upset stomach, diarrhea and vomiting. that can be why he is not eating like normal, but he doesn't really have a lack of appetite, more like a change in eating habit since is still eating his usual daily amount.
The other symptoms you discribed are clasicc symtoms of anaplasmosis. I would mention it again to the vet and see if he thinks another coarse of doxy is in order considering the symptoms he is displaying, the doxy treatment is usually a month long treatment so since he only got 2 weeks I would definatly mention it again.
Does he have a fever?


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## thegoodstuff (May 12, 2010)

Rvent said:


> I know cephalexine can cause upset stomach, diarrhea and vomiting. that can be why he is not eating like normal, but he doesn't really have a lack of appetite, more like a change in eating habit since is still eating his usual daily amount.
> The other symptoms you discribed are clasicc symtoms of anaplasmosis. I would mention it again to the vet and see if he thinks another coarse of doxy is in order considering the symptoms he is displaying, the doxy treatment is usually a month long treatment so since he only got 2 weeks I would definatly mention it again.


My vet was blase about treating it "you can if you want to". I gave him the doxy myself. 2 weeks was the recommended course by a friend who is a vet tech and dog breeder. Maybe I should dose him again.

The symptoms are like ghosts - one minute he has em, the next he doesnt.



Rvent said:


> Does he have a fever?


Excellent question. I dont know, I will go get a thermometer tomorrow


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## Rvent (Apr 15, 2012)

unfortunately I don't think vets have a true handle on all the tick diseases, there is no cure for Lyme disease and people can have continuing symptoms for years. I am being treated right now with doxy for lyme. Max had anaplasmosis and my vet was the same about treating it in the beginning and then when he started having problems they never made a connection they always thought it was other things IBD, ACL ect I demanded my vet treat him with doxy but I am not sure it him or even if it was the problem and I will probably never know


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## BearMurphy (Feb 29, 2012)

I agree with Rvent. 2 weeks of doxy doesn't sound like enough, I would have done a month. I only have experience with lyme in humans though. Maybe PM shellbell who recently treated her dog. I know she did a lot of research on treatment options

I'm concerned both of you have experience with anaplasmosis in CT. I've only heard of lyme being an issue


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## thegoodstuff (May 12, 2010)

Thats one of the things that pisses me off about vets. Can I trust what they say? One vet says this and another says that. For the most part, you dont get that with human medicine. IMO, lots of what they do is pharmaceutical company driven. With some, their best "training" on a disease is the info given to them by the pharms. Im no expert on any of this and my vet is supposed to know what he is talking about. Then the discussion becomes 'good vet/bad vet' - "change vets". Then its the same thing in a different flavor from that vet. 

Idexx uses the term "light positive" and so does my vet. Rhetorical question: whose mumbo jumbo do you believe?


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## BearMurphy (Feb 29, 2012)

so if you know the titer levels then test again and see if they went up or down and make your next decision from there


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## thegoodstuff (May 12, 2010)

BearMurphy said:


> so if you know the titer levels then test again and see if they went up or down and make your next decision from there


Makes sense to me. Im not questioning what you said, just an example of what I was talking about in my previous post. This is what _my_ vet says:

There is no titer; it cant be quantified
A positive SNAP screen only means the dog was exposed to it. The dog may never be affected.

huh?


EDIT: Its been hours since I put his food down, he hasnt touched it. I wanted to give him a buffered aspirin, but not on an empty stomach. So I put some tuna in his food. He cleaned the bowl. I wonder if its bad to make dog eat when it sure seems like he doesnt want to. 


After running, when he walks up the stairs serpentine or hesitates at the bottom, I know he is sore. I often give him a buffered aspirin (no more than 1 a day, it ends up being a couple times a week)


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## BearMurphy (Feb 29, 2012)

thegoodstuff said:


> Makes sense to me. Im not questioning what you said, just an example of what I was talking about in my previous post. This is what _my_ vet says:
> 
> There is no titer; it cant be quantified
> A positive SNAP screen only means the dog was exposed to it. The dog may never be affected.
> ...


Ok, the SNAP just tests for the existence of antibodies. I don't know why he would say your dog was a low positive if he didn't actually check the levels of antibodies. I would do that now to see how high they are so you know if the treatment is working


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## thegoodstuff (May 12, 2010)

BearMurphy said:


> Ok, the SNAP just tests for the existence of antibodies. I don't know why he would say your dog was a low positive if he didn't actually check the levels of antibodies. I would do that now to see how high they are so you know if the treatment is working


Apparently the test result shows a darker color the higher it is.


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## Rvent (Apr 15, 2012)

Idexx uses the term "light positive" and so does my vet. Rhetorical question: whose mumbo jumbo do you believe?[/QUOTE]

My doctor referred to my test (Lyme) as a light positive as well, maybe it means the same, from what I understand there is a certain number of markers or rings (3 for humans for Lyme) as my doctor called them to be 100% diagnosed with the disease I had one ring come back instead of 3 so there for it is a light positive. 

My vet explained to me why he does not dose with Doxy when test comes back positive without symptoms, I sorta agree but..... will explain after......so he does not dose without symptoms because just because there is a positive or light positive it does not mean the dog will have symptoms (could be carrier) he is afraid that the bacteria could become resistant to the doxy and with no symptoms you don't know if the bacteria is active or if you can kill it. So my only problem with that theory is once a dog is showing symptoms they never think its the disease because it mimics so many other aliments, with Max they thought he had IBD, joint issues (ACL) and I can not remember the others.

I have been taking doxy and I have to say it makes my stomach real funky sick feeling, a lot of antibiotics have that effect.

How old is Nicky (spelled it right this time LOL)? He might just be getting older and arthritis is setting in and needs a little glucosamine supplement. I don't know about buffered aspirin for dogs I give meloxicam pills the liquid meta cam is way to expensive


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## thegoodstuff (May 12, 2010)

Rvent said:


> Idexx uses the term "light positive" and so does my vet. Rhetorical question: whose mumbo jumbo do you believe?





> My doctor referred to my test (Lyme) as a light positive as well, maybe it means the same, from what I understand there is a certain number of markers or rings (3 for humans for Lyme) as my doctor called them to be 100% diagnosed with the disease I had one ring come back instead of 3 so there for it is a light positive.
> 
> My vet explained to me why he does not dose with Doxy when test comes back positive without symptoms, I sorta agree but..... will explain after......so he does not dose without symptoms because just because there is a positive or light positive it does not mean the dog will have symptoms (could be carrier) he is afraid that the bacteria could become resistant to the doxy and with no symptoms you don't know if the bacteria is active or if you can kill it. So my only problem with that theory is once a dog is showing symptoms they never think its the disease because it mimics so many other aliments, with Max they thought he had IBD, joint issues (ACL) and I can not remember the others.
> 
> I have been taking doxy and I have to say it makes my stomach real funky sick feeling, a lot of antibiotics have that effect.


 
Cooties becoming resistant to antibiotics is the result of calling in an air strike of heythatsmyacin for every little boo boo (not the bear). Its created real problems in human medicine, MRSA etc. So he has a point. 

Once again - treat it/dont treat it - :lalala: Treatment of disease in dogs is kinda like what the scarecrow said to Dorothy in the cornfield - 'some people go this way, some people go that way and some people go both ways'. I think one of the problems is dogs cant talk. If they could, there wouldnt be any mysteries like _does it hurt right...there? Does this make it feel better? Does that medicine give you cramps or make you feel like youre gonna throw up?_ But, they cant, so everybody steps in and...guesses. Very frustrating.

Hey, are those antidepressants working?
I dont know, I can only assume I'd feel worse if I _wasnt_ taking them.


Its like the old joke: 

Why do elephants wear red sneakers?
I dunno, why?
So they can hide in cherry trees.
Wha?
Ever see an elephant in a cherry tree? 
No
See, it works.



> How old is Nicky (spelled it right this time LOL)? He might just be getting older and arthritis is setting in and needs a little glucosamine supplement. I don't know about buffered aspirin for dogs I give meloxicam pills the liquid meta cam is way to expensive


I cant bear to think about Nicky getting old. Now, I know what happens if dogs get too old. So I try to pretend I dont see the subtle signs. I knew before he had TTA surgery that he would be sorer as time went on because of the inevitable arthritis in that joint. So I can say to myself 'oh, its just that knee, la la lala la. He's just as young as the day I got him'. Can you hear _that_ time bomb ticking?...But funny you should mention joint supplements - he's been getting 1500mg glucosamine and 1200mg of chondroitin every day since the surgery almost 2 and a half years ago. About 2 weeks ago it ran out. If thats not a coincidence, wow. I re-upped today. He also gets MSM everyday. I know people that take it too - for back and joint problems, and they tell me if they miss a day, they can really feel it. He will be 9 in August (wow, seems I like was just telling people he will be 8 in August) When people see him bouncing around like a ping pong ball and ask his age, they always seem genuinely surprised when I tell them - "Really?? I thought he was a puppy." My stock answer is "Its the fish oil." It was the same with Java.

I got a digital thermometer at Walmart for $9. Rectal readout in 9 seconds. No fever - only 99.5°











*Youre gonna put that WHERE?*


How do you tell the difference between an oral thermometer and a rectal thermometer?
I dunno, how?
The taste


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## Rvent (Apr 15, 2012)

ha ha very funny stuff :laugh:

I know what you mean about pretending they are not getting old, I do the same for my self. Babs bounces around like a pup I have a hard time believing she is 13, she doesn't take glucosamine or chondroitin but I can tell when she is do for another acupuncture treatment


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