# Rabbit as a staple?



## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

My husband and I are actually considering making a really nice set up to raise meat rabbits. I know there are a few things that make rabbit a bit different than other meats, but I can't remember what they are. Someone remind me!
But would using rabbit as a staple... say 25% of the diet be ok? 
I've only fed rabbit once, but my pack totally loved it.


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## CavePaws (Jan 25, 2011)

I'd do it for sure! I think the only thing about rabbit is that they are high in protein and have almost no fat...I was watching survivor man and he said that if you are going to eat rabbit as a staple you have to eat the eyes, brain, and all the fatty organs to survive or else you get protein poisoning.


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

Oh they'd eat the whole thing! last time I fed rabbit whole, and they ate the entire thing. 
Of course it wouldn't be their entire diet. Not even close. But I'd like to make it roughly 25% or so if possible.


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## CavePaws (Jan 25, 2011)

I think that is an awesome idea and that you should definitely do it. If I could do it I would! I don't think you'll have any problem at all with it making up 25% of the diet...Especially since they will be eating the entire thing!


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## Northwoods10 (Nov 22, 2010)

I'd say go for it. If you have the space & time to devote to it! I'm not sure what all it envolves to raise rabbits but it would be pretty cool to say you provide your dogs with something you've grown & raised yourself!


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## CavePaws (Jan 25, 2011)

edit: I don't know how the double post happened!


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## CavePaws (Jan 25, 2011)

I had a pet rabbit for about 9 years...They are really easy to care for. Feed alfalfa hay until they are around a year, then you want to switch to timothy hay. You want to make timothy hay the staple of their diet, include fresh vegetables and a high quality alfalfa pellet in small quantities...Always offer fresh water. Fruits can be given in moderation. I used to give mine yogurt drops as her extra special treats and she loved them.


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## nupe (Apr 26, 2011)

I feed a frozen rabbitt from the supermarket here In nYC to Buddy...once a week. (YES nyc in some areas has frozen rabbitt..lol) he loves it.////but it is minus the head, eyes and all...just the body.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Rabbit is just a lean meat with not much "good" fat on them. So feeding only rabbit isn't a good idea, but since you're going to include them in a good rotation I wouldn't worry about it much. 

Jon and I are also going to raise free range rabbits for meat for dogs as well!


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## Tobi (Mar 18, 2011)

I have given this a lot of thoughts because of all the reading i have done they are fairly easy to raise, the hardest part for me would be killing them... do you guys think that the way that Hare today does it is safe? using cO2? I couldn't take the screaming of them if we had to do it any other way.


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## SilverBeat (Jan 16, 2011)

I don't know a lot about c02 methods but from what I can tell it's more humane than other methods.

I think raising meat rabbits is a great idea! Fresh grass, hay and forage greens [like clover, dandelion greens, etc] should make up the bulk of their diet.
How are you planning on keeping them, if you don't mind my asking?


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## CavePaws (Jan 25, 2011)

I second that Co2 would be the most humane way...I think it might be pretty easy to mess up cervical dislocation if you're not really experienced. Which would be extremely painful for the animal if botched.


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## SilverBeat (Jan 16, 2011)

CavePaws said:


> I second that Co2 would be the most humane way...I think it might be pretty easy to mess up cervical dislocation if you're not really experienced. Which would be extremely painful for the animal if botched.


Not only that, but the ideal slaughter is quick and unexpected. With cervical dislocation it's pretty hard to make it swift OR unexpected. Rabbits are used to being everybody's lunch... they know when 's about to go down.


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## CavePaws (Jan 25, 2011)

Exactly. When we had to put my dear Abby down it was one of the hardest decisions I've ever had to make, and I hope to god it was pain free for her. Not that her life hadn't been full of pain the last few months she lived, poor thing had broken her leg somehow and we spent a good 3 months trying to get it healed but she got an infection that went down into the bone. Her quality of life was just horrible. It bothers me now, reading about how rabbits are killed, that I don't know what type of solution was used to put her down...Seeing that cheap solutions are sometimes used really makes me sad and nervous.

Anyway, I was just reading that Co2 might not be the most stress free way to die...Because apparently the animal is hunting for oxygen until it passes out. I really don't know of any other way you could do the killing in a more humane manner...Shooting in the head might work, but that could be really difficult and it would render the brain useless for consumption.

edit: AND, with cervical dislocation, I can only imagine if the rabbit is not used to being handled a lot how much it would be fighting to get away. :/


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## SilverBeat (Jan 16, 2011)

CavePaws said:


> Exactly. When we had to put my dear Abby down it was one of the hardest decisions I've ever had to make, and I hope to god it was pain free for her. Not that her life hadn't been full of pain the last few months she lived, poor thing had broken her leg somehow and we spent a good 3 months trying to get it healed but she got an infection that went down into the bone. Her quality of life was just horrible. It bothers me now, reading about how rabbits are killed, that I don't know what type of solution was used to put her down...Seeing that cheap solutions are sometimes used really makes me sad and nervous.
> 
> Anyway, I was just reading that Co2 might not be the most stress free way to die...Because apparently the animal is hunting for oxygen until it passes out. I really don't know of any other way you could do the killing in a more humane manner...Shooting in the head might work, but that could be really difficult and it would render the brain useless for consumption.
> 
> edit: AND, with cervical dislocation, I can only imagine if the rabbit is not used to being handled a lot how much it would be fighting to get away. :/


You could use a frozen meat bullet like on CSI...

The only other thing I can think of is complete decapitation and again, with the handling involved, it would undoubtedly be stressful.

What I read was that the bigger the animals is, the more stressful the CO2 is because it takes longer.


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## bumblegoat (May 12, 2010)

You can definately mess up CO2 too. If you add too much CO2 too fast, the animals will panic. I've seen a lot of idiots use dry ice, which is not a good way to do it, since you can not control the amount of CO2. Here is a video of someone doing it _wrong_ (don't watch if if you don't want to see rats get killed!): YouTube - Cheap Rat Gas Chamber

I found this guy's videos the other day, and I like the way he kills his rabbits. Looks easy and fast. Again, don't watch if you don't want to see this! You will see a rabbit get killed and butchered: YouTube - Urban Survival Livestock: Raising Rabbits Part 4

Another way to kill rabbits is to hit them hard on the head, this way making them unconscious, and then bleed them out.



SilverBeat said:


> What I read was that the bigger the animals is, the more stressful the CO2 is because it takes longer.


I don't think this is completely true, since baby rodents, like pinkies, are not recommended to kill using the CO2 method. They can survive a long time without oxygen.


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## CavePaws (Jan 25, 2011)

In the video with the rabbits, it looks like they are knocked out first...Does he do this with Co2? And if so, why did he not finish the job with Co2? I'm guessing it is because the cervical dislocation would be easier/faster once they are asleep. Honestly, I still probably couldn't do it to a knocked out animal. :/

In the video with the rats, they did panic for a couple of seconds, which is sad. So this can be avoided by adding the co2 slowly? Is there a video for proper use of Co2 that you would recommend? 

I don't know how Pinkies are killed...My lizard eats mice and I always thought they were killed by freezing, which is horrible, but I couldn't figure any other way they'd be killed. My boyfriend thinks I should feed the lizard live mice, but I think that's dangerous, they're ridiculously expensive for their size...I really wish I could breed mice for lizard food but I just don't think I have the heart to do the killing unless I knew of a way to do it where they'd have no clue they were dying.


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## SilverBeat (Jan 16, 2011)

I'm not in love with that guy's videos for a few reasons. He picks the rabbits up by the scruff of the neck. I know this is an extremely common practice but it's very stressful for the rabbits, and can be dangerous if they struggle, resulting in the rabbits being dropped and/or breaking their backs. A better way to pick them up is one hand under the chest, the other under the bottom.
I am also not a fan of keeping rabbits on wire. In addition to hurting their feet and causing sore hocks, their toenails can get caught in them and cause injury to their foot or leg. A better option is a solid-bottomed cage or pen area with straw or mulch hay for bedding.

Also Kelly, the rabbit in that video is conscious. When prey animals are extremely stressed they go into a terminal state of shock. I'm not saying that's necessarily what's happened there but that rabbit looks kind of listless.

***obviously I'm really sensitive about this issue and some of my suggestions may come off as "a bit much"... I do support the idea of raising your own rabbits for meat, it's just that I feel that most common farming practices are outdated and not the most humane.***
My years of rescue work are to blame...


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## bumblegoat (May 12, 2010)

I'm having trouble finding a better video, but if done correctly, the animals should not panic, and it should look a bit like they are falling asleep. It can be difficult to get it done right, so it can still look very uncomfortable...

Unfortunatley, killing pinkies by freezing them isn't uncommon. The best way, as far as I know, is to just throw them on the floor or something similiar.

SilverBeat, I do agree about the wire thing, I'm pretty sure that is even illegal here. I have never even seen a cage with a wire floor IRL! The way he picks them up isn't ideal either, but it can be very difficult to pick up a rabbit that isn't used to being handled, which I'm sure you know. I do still think that the way he kills them looks fast and like a decent way to do it. I actually don't even know if that way is legal here. The legal ways I know of (in Sweden) are using a bolt gun or hitting the rabbit on the head and then bleed them out.

Even killing rabbits using CO2 is illegal where I am...


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## CavePaws (Jan 25, 2011)

Really? I guess I just never saw Abby go stiff and still like that but I never handled her like that either...If I had picked my buns up like that she would have made such a fuss. That poor rabbit, I feel bad for it, of course the poor thing knows what's coming. I hope he kills them away from each other where they can't see whats taking place. :/ 

Anyway, I'm sure Puppypaws will find the most humane way possible to do it.


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## Tobi (Mar 18, 2011)

bumblegoat said:


> You can definately mess up CO2 too. If you add too much CO2 too fast, the animals will panic. I've seen a lot of idiots use dry ice, which is not a good way to do it, since you can not control the amount of CO2. Here is a video of someone doing it _wrong_ (don't watch if if you don't want to see rats get killed!): YouTube - Cheap Rat Gas Chamber
> 
> I found this guy's videos the other day, and I like the way he kills his rabbits. Looks easy and fast. Again, don't watch if you don't want to see this! You will see a rabbit get killed and butchered: YouTube - Urban Survival Livestock: Raising Rabbits Part 4
> 
> ...


The co2 method seems pretty nice actually there is panic for a few seconds and then they begin to relax and fall asleep, i believe that is quite humane vs bashing them in the head.
The rabbit video this guy knows his stuff, and seems to care about his rabbits not being in pain or agony long. I think the way he does it is swift and humane as well But i just don't know if i could do that to a little bunny... At the end of the video he advocates raw feeding for pets as well so +1 for him, I don't however like cage raised... personally i think a cage moved around with a wire bottom do different parts of a field would be much nicer so they could feed off of natural vegetation and keep the clover down


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## CavePaws (Jan 25, 2011)

Tobi if you do that you need to make sure you have a separate cage to keep them in as well which is elevated off the ground...Or places in the cage that are elevated with a wood bottom so that they can get away from the ground and off of wire. I had a cage on the grass for Abby but we had a cage up off the grass too, I had to consider all the elements...What if there are bugs crawling into her cage? We have lots of ants here in Texas so leaving her on the ground isn't particurly safe. There are also snakes, raccoons, and possums here.


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## SilverBeat (Jan 16, 2011)

Good point, Kelly. Rabbits carry themselves very low to the ground so having a tractor cage like Tobi suggested is a great way for them to get fresh forages and grass, but it shouldn't be used all the time. Rabbits also should not be out on the grass in cold [below 40F] or wet weather, because they can get fungal infections and respiratory infections.


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## Lisa_j (Apr 7, 2011)

I buy my rabbits from the same amish man that sells them to Tracie at Hare Today. I guarentee you, the ones that he butchers and sells to her are not killed with CO2. He cuts the neck and I know that for a fact because I asked him personally. I have been at the farm while he is butchering. I was actually shocked he sold to her, not because I feel there is anything wrong with that but because she claims on her web site, it is all raised at her farm. I buy the same rabbit you buy ground, whole for $3.00/lb. Not a bad deal, I see his set up 2 x a month, it is clean and efficient too. Going to get some goat tomorrow.


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## Ioana (May 1, 2011)

I have a question about all this CO2 killing. Do you think it is safe? Doesn't this method modify something in the meat? I know that people shouldn't eat the meat of an animal that died whithout bleeding. It may be a myth, but also it may have something true in it. And even if wild animals, like wolves, sometimes eat bodies of anilmals that died because of some sickness, the rule still remains eating animals which they kill, so which bleed. I also think CO2 is more humaine, but I still wonder...


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## bumblegoat (May 12, 2010)

Ioana said:


> I have a question about all this CO2 killing. Do you think it is safe? Doesn't this method modify something in the meat? I know that people shouldn't eat the meat of an animal that died whithout bleeding. It may be a myth, but also it may have something true in it. And even if wild animals, like wolves, sometimes eat bodies of anilmals that died because of some sickness, the rule still remains eating animals which they kill, so which bleed. I also think CO2 is more humaine, but I still wonder...


CO2 is not toxic, CO2 is everywhere! The animal dies because of the lack of oxygen. 

It also leaves the animal completely intact, which is one of the reasons it is such a popular way to kill rabbits and rodents for reptiles. That, and the facts that it doesnt leave the animal filled with some sort of poison, it's easy to do and you can kill many at once. 

The reason to why the meat we eat is bled out is because the meat stays fresh a lot longer, and well, the meat doesn't taste like blood. If you freeze the meet right after the killing, then there is no issue. Dogs usually don't care if the meat is bloody. In fact, blood is good for them! There is lots of iron in blood. I buy frozen blood and feed it to my dog actually... :happy:


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## Tobi (Mar 18, 2011)

CavePaws said:


> Tobi if you do that you need to make sure you have a separate cage to keep them in as well which is elevated off the ground...Or places in the cage that are elevated with a wood bottom so that they can get away from the ground and off of wire. I had a cage on the grass for Abby but we had a cage up off the grass too, I had to consider all the elements...What if there are bugs crawling into her cage? We have lots of ants here in Texas so leaving her on the ground isn't particurly safe. There are also snakes, raccoons, and possums here.





SilverBeat said:


> Good point, Kelly. Rabbits carry themselves very low to the ground so having a tractor cage like Tobi suggested is a great way for them to get fresh forages and grass, but it shouldn't be used all the time. Rabbits also should not be out on the grass in cold [below 40F] or wet weather, because they can get fungal infections and respiratory infections.


Both good points, when if we pulled the trigger on this we would get a small shed for the back of our house, and fill it with pens off the floor inside, and also have a few pens outside that could be moved around on nice days so they can "graze" 
I've still got alot of reading and research to do on the matter honestly because i don't know much about what a rabbit eats, or really anything as i've never owned one but this seems like a nice informative thread for it


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## SilverBeat (Jan 16, 2011)

Tobi said:


> I've still got alot of reading and research to do on the matter honestly because i don't know much about what a rabbit eats, or really anything as i've never owned one but this seems like a nice informative thread for it


You're free to pick my brain any time you want... I like your ideas so far!


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## CavePaws (Jan 25, 2011)

Sounds like a good idea, Tobi! Sometimes you may have to separate the rabbits based on personality.


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