# Someone Loves Her Chicken



## BoxerPaws (Jul 19, 2011)

I had to pick up more chicken yesterday, so I bought 2 whole chickens from the meat market nearby. Their stuff is all fresh with no additives or anything, and at only $1.19/lb, it's cheaper to buy the whole chicken than the individual cuts!

Well, we broke down the chickens last night, and I decided Zoey was getting big enough to get bigger chunks of meat work with (these are also small chickens, so the drums and thighs on them aren't big). We quartered the chickens and cut off the breasts for boneless meals.

I tried giving Zoey a leg quarter this morning for breakfast, with the intent of trading her a little chicken heart when she was halfway through it, since the whole leg quarter was big enough to cover 2 of her meals (she gets 3 meals/day). She happily enough dropped the remainder of the leg quarter and took the heart, then immediately snapped back up the leg when I reached for it and basically swallowed it whole. Ugh. I really thought she'd bring it back up right away, but it's stayed down as far as I'm aware! I'm at work now, so who knows what's going on in her crate. Looks like she's skipping lunch!

Oh. And last night my hubs took her with him over to his parents' house for a while to let me get freelance work done. His dad likes to get stuff for her, and my hubs said he gave her some sort of "rawhide" to chew on, saying, "Oh this will keep her occupied for a long time!" My hubs responded that it probably wouldn't, and Zoey proved him right. 5 minutes later she was staring at my FIL like, "Okay, now what?" I don't like the idea of giving her rawhide. My hubs thinks I get overparanoid with treat stuff and that she'll be fine and wants to let his dad spoil her/treat her when she's over there. Thoughts? Should I chill, or lay down the law?


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## jenv101 (Oct 13, 2010)

Well if she kept the rawhide down and isn't acting sick, she'll probably be ok, but I would avoid rawhides in the future. They are definitely not good for them!


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## 3Musketeers (Nov 4, 2010)

Tell him to buy bully sticks instead of rawhide , makes for a much better treat.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

you should show your hubby this page:
Rawhide, Nylabone,Cow hooves, Pig ears-The hidden dangers

There are so many things wrong with feeding rawhide it's amazing they are even allowed to be sold - from deadly chemicals used to make them, to the scratching and tearing they can do inside the dog's body, to the swelling up and blockage of the intestines.


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## BoxerPaws (Jul 19, 2011)

xellil said:


> you should show your hubby this page:
> Rawhide, Nylabone,Cow hooves, Pig ears-The hidden dangers
> 
> There are so many things wrong with feeding rawhide it's amazing they are even allowed to be sold - *from deadly chemicals used to make them, to the scratching and tearing they can do inside the dog's body, to the swelling up and blockage of the intestines*.


That's the stuff I'm afraid of!! 

And yipes...Zoey has 2 puppy chew nylabones, and a pack we haven't even opened yet. She bareley touches them (had them for 2 months and only one end of each is really all that chewed up, but not significantly (it still looks bone-shaped on each end).

I've been meaning to get more bully sticks for her for a few weeks now. It keeps slipping my mind! I'll have to order a pack of them and bring some over to the in-laws to give her when she goes to visit. I do NOT want her having any of that other stuff!


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

BoxerPaws said:


> That's the stuff I'm afraid of!!
> 
> And yipes...Zoey has 2 puppy chew nylabones, and a pack we haven't even opened yet. She bareley touches them (had them for 2 months and only one end of each is really all that chewed up, but not significantly (it still looks bone-shaped on each end).
> 
> I've been meaning to get more bully sticks for her for a few weeks now. It keeps slipping my mind! I'll have to order a pack of them and bring some over to the in-laws to give her when she goes to visit. I do NOT want her having any of that other stuff!


have her stools stablised yet?

you can order bully sticks online, too.... bestbullysticks.com

and antlers....from ebay....

much cheaper...


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## BoxerPaws (Jul 19, 2011)

magicre said:


> have her stools stablised yet?
> 
> you can order bully sticks online, too.... bestbullysticks.com
> 
> ...


No, not really Re. Don't know if we were feeding too much or if she's not tolerating the turkey wings (she was fine with turkey necks). About 5.5 oz per meal is easily dispatched, and like I mentioned, she chomped an entire ~9-oz leg quarter for breakfast this morning. Lol. I know she _can_ eat more than that 5.5 oz, but I'm trying to keep it around that for a few days' worth of meals. Should be fun getting a poop sample for the vet appt tomorrow. Yick.

I know about bestbullysticks, too. Meant to grab a pack or two when I had an 8% coupon code, then it totally got pushed to the backburner and forgotten.


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## jenv101 (Oct 13, 2010)

I gave Riley rawhide a month or two after we got him, before we knew it was bad, and he threw up within 12 hrs after, each and every time. I finally figured out what was causing it! Never again!


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

sounds like you're feeding too much at one sitting....and not enough bone....i know she's a pup...but why turkey if she still has the runs....


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

jenv101 said:


> I gave Riley rawhide a month or two after we got him, before we knew it was bad, and he threw up within 12 hrs after, each and every time. I finally figured out what was causing it! Never again!


my dogs never did well with nylabones, or rawhide or greenies or any of them...even bullysticks are given infrequently....


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## BoxerPaws (Jul 19, 2011)

magicre said:


> sounds like you're feeding too much at one sitting....and not enough bone....i know she's a pup...but why turkey if she still has the runs....


Because she was solid on chicken before we started the turkey. And then we attributed the runs to random treats she was getting. Cut those out since this past weekend, and things haven't firmed up yet. Just finished the turkey we'd pulled from the freezer, so I'm keeping her on just chicken for a while to see how things go. And she's probably gotten all of 2 boneless meals in the last couple of weeks. Pretty much everything she gets has bone. Overloading her on bone/calcium can't be good for her skeletal growth.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

BoxerPaws said:


> Because she was solid on chicken before we started the turkey. And then we attributed the runs to random treats she was getting. Cut those out since this past weekend, and things haven't firmed up yet. Just finished the turkey we'd pulled from the freezer, so I'm keeping her on just chicken for a while to see how things go. And she's probably gotten all of 2 boneless meals in the last couple of weeks. Pretty much everything she gets has bone. Overloading her on bone/calcium can't be good for her skeletal growth.


believe me, if you were feeding kibble, she'd be getting more..

it's not going to hurt her to stay on backs until she stabillises...what will hurt her is if she continues to have the runs.....that will affect her more than a few weeks on bony chicken...and then intro her to other proteins....

there is nothing worse than the gut of a dog who can not produce firm stools because of user error.

i have an almost twelve year old dog whose intestines can't even accept a bite of tuna , fresh uncooked, because of the mistakes i made when she was ten.... and i do believe that i caused it in the beginning and this is how she will be from now forward....


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## BoxerPaws (Jul 19, 2011)

magicre said:


> i have an almost twelve year old dog whose intestines can't even accept a bite of tuna , fresh uncooked, because of the mistakes i made when she was ten.... and i do believe that i caused it in the beginning and this is how she will be from now forward....


And now I'm freaking out that my dog will never be able to handle anything!!


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## minnieme (Jul 6, 2011)

Minnie took a LOOOONG time to stabilize after "incidents" -- usually around a week. It sucked....but if your baby is as sensitive as Minnie -- which it sounds like -- you might have to just wait it out. I know it's hard and I'm so so sorry you're having troubles! Next time I would lay down the law....and explain that she can't have any kinds of treats/chews/etc while in this phase. 

How many times a day is she having the liquidy poo?


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## minnieme (Jul 6, 2011)

I would also avoid bully sticks for a while btw... they can be pretty rich.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

BoxerPaws said:


> And now I'm freaking out that my dog will never be able to handle anything!!


part of the why your puppy isn't transitioning well, is due to these freak outs....your puppy is soaking up all of your tension..

puppies are pretty resilient..and yours looks pretty solid to me.....and to everyone who has posted about your baby.

i know that transitioning a dog to raw is a strain on everything you were taught to believe and i understand that you're scared or anxious...

but there is a yahoo group that is 20000 strong and that's just one group who feeds raw.....there are many more who have never joined a forum or a list who feed raw successfully.

if you follow a simple protocol in the beginning...which is now...your puppy will grow up to be a lean sweet boxer without the health issues..most likely.

she doesn't look like other boxers BECAUSE she is raw fed. she is leaner with none of the fat that kibble puts onto a dog.

the beginning is the most important part....and pushing the envelope is not helping her.

general rule of thumb

stripped backs for at least a week and stools should be solid.
add in boneless chicken after stable stools on back....but bony should still predominate.

then turkey necks or wings and chicken
then chicken backs and boneless turkey

then pork ribs and boneless chicken
then boneless pork and bony chicken

do you see how it goes? and it can take a few months..

those precious months are what will give her a chance at success..it's not the dog who is sensitive. it is improper transition that is irritating her gut.

but honestly, if you are too anxious to do this....and be patient, perhaps raw is not for you. it is for her...


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

minnieme said:


> Minnie took a LOOOONG time to stabilize after "incidents" -- usually around a week. It sucked....but if your baby is as sensitive as Minnie -- which it sounds like -- you might have to just wait it out. I know it's hard and I'm so so sorry you're having troubles! Next time I would lay down the law....and explain that she can't have any kinds of treats/chews/etc while in this phase.
> 
> How many times a day is she having the liquidy poo?


that's good to hear that minnie is stable now. what did you end up doing to get her to have solid stools?


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## minnieme (Jul 6, 2011)

I have to disagree -- I do think dogs can be sensitive -- I've talked to plenty of people on here who have not followed the transition rules by the book and their dogs have been a-okay. Minnie was on backs for 2 weeks straight and was still having loose stools... I think some dogs just have a really challenging time with raw. I thought it was because she's already a year and a half (has always been on kibble) and to be honest, probably doesn't have perfect genetics (she was from a backyard breeder too) -- not to mention the litter she had at 9 months and the abuse she suffered -- PLUS, the many ways in which I naively exacerbated her transition...... but to be honest, even when we were following the rules COMPLETELY, her poos still weren't up to snuff and like what I've read here with majority of successful transitioners. 

With that said, we did go back to Evo FOR NOW to fatten her up (and she has had perfect poo thankfully). And you were right, mentally I'm just not in the right place to be transitioning her. It was too hard on me to see her have diarrhea all the time, or not be able to eat as much as her body wanted, or to go to bed hungry, or to wake up multiple times a night. We will revisit raw once she puts on the 15-20 pounds she so desperately needs. I still believe in it 110% but that saying "know thy dog".....I DO know my dog and right now just wasn't the right time. 

I'm not saying that to deter anybody because it was largely my fault that our first attempt was a flop, but I do absolutely believe that some dogs are more sensitive. And there's nothing wrong with that -- you just have to be more diligent in how you remedy or hope to mitigate that. So for right now, no treats, no rawhides, no nothin' except backs.  If you don't commit to that (trust me, I KNOW it's hard) it will continue to be problematic for you.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

minnieme said:


> I have to disagree -- I do think dogs can be sensitive -- I've talked to plenty of people on here who have not followed the transition rules by the book and their dogs have been a-okay. Minnie was on backs for 2 weeks straight and was still having loose stools... I think some dogs just have a really challenging time with raw. I thought it was because she's already a year and a half (has always been on kibble) and to be honest, probably doesn't have perfect genetics (she was from a backyard breeder too) -- not to mention the litter she had at 9 months and the abuse she suffered -- PLUS, the many ways in which I naively exacerbated her transition...... but to be honest, even when we were following the rules COMPLETELY, her poos still weren't up to snuff and like what I've read here with majority of successful transitioners.
> 
> With that said, we did go back to Evo FOR NOW to fatten her up (and she has had perfect poo thankfully). And you were right, mentally I'm just not in the right place to be transitioning her. It was too hard on me to see her have diarrhea all the time, or not be able to eat as much as her body wanted, or to go to bed hungry, or to wake up multiple times a night. We will revisit raw once she puts on the 15-20 pounds she so desperately needs. I still believe in it 110% but that saying "know thy dog".....I DO know my dog and right now just wasn't the right time.
> 
> I'm not saying that to deter anybody because it was largely my fault that our first attempt was a flop, but I do absolutely believe that some dogs are more sensitive. And there's nothing wrong with that -- you just have to be more diligent in how you remedy or hope to mitigate that. So for right now, no treats, no rawhides, no nothin' except backs.  If you don't commit to that (trust me, I KNOW it's hard) it will continue to be problematic for you.


minnie's not a puppy....after all that she's been through, i'm glad you went back to evo....my first attempt was a flop also...

sensitive dogs are generally created by the owner or the life the dog led...

by the time an owner gets here, the puppy or dog is already showing signs...of trouble.

but this boxer is sixteen weeks old....so still has a chance to not be sensitive...


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## minnieme (Jul 6, 2011)

I have heard of boxers having a lot of stomach issues though.... I have to wonder if they aren't predisposed to struggling a bit more.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

minnieme said:


> I have heard of boxers having a lot of stomach issues though.... I have to wonder if they aren't predisposed to struggling a bit more.


maybe they are, but generally puppies aren't.

unfortunately, we create most of the problems.....i still don't think my kitchen is clean after my first attempt...and that was almost two years ago 

it's not easy to go from a lifetime of one belief or watch your dog get old and suddenly be offered a way to help prolong the life or get a puppy and want to start that puppy off in a way that is being proven over and over again...to be the way and the light.

only to find out that practically, s*** happens, yes, the pun was on purpose..

and then what happens is we, the humans want to fix it. and we end up making it worse until the light bulb goes off...

nine ounces in one feeding is enough to cause the runs for a puppy who is used to getting 4 1/2 ounces per feeding....doesn't take much....

i think the older the dog, the more potential there is for difficulty. i have more problems with my malia who was ten when i switched her than i did with my pug who was two....and he was a puppy mill dog too.

i also know that i stopped because my head wasn't in the right place...i was so stressed out that it became impossible to feed them without drinking LOL

so i stopped for a month until i got some composure and the commitment, that, no matter what.....thousands and thousands of people did this before me and it was my user error or nerves or whatever that was causing the problems. after all, i handed out the food....

and then i went back and started over...and this time, they got a little less than weight appropriate, stripped down backs and nothing else...not a treat. g'd help my neighbours who were all about the treats....

and this time they transitioned fine...and i'm sure i'm not alone....there are plenty of us who oops'd our way through to success or not success....

some people figure it's not worth a heart attack. i'm down with that....

but if we know we are the cause, then we have to step back and punt. i'm glad you did that. your nerves were frayed, so were minnies....and if ever you want to start again, you will...and i bet this time you'll be successful.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

i forgot to mention that calcium is water soluble, so whatever she doesn't need, she will pee it out.


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## 3Musketeers (Nov 4, 2010)

I wouldn't worry about bony meals and calcium, if her stools are loose, go for the bony stuff. I'm pretty sure the calcium form eating bones get digested/processed in the body differently than a synthetic calcium supplement (like in kibble) would.
I don't know how it works, but I would think it's sort of how beta-carotene (natural vitamin A) gets converted and slowly used by the body, as opposed to synthetic vitamin A.


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## Northwoods10 (Nov 22, 2010)

She's a puppy.

She's new to this.

You need to start out at base one and stay there until things are 100% normal. If they're not 100% normal, try again. Its a process of trial & error. You have to find a happy medium.

Do not, Do NOT jump to new proteins, extra treats, etc. when she's just starting out. This, IMO, is asking for trouble. 

There's no need to rush. My favorite saying is "Slow & Steady wins the race". Take your time. I think Linsey used the term, "go so slow its painful". Go slower than you think you need to. Extra bone & calcium is not going to be detrimental to her health in the raw form. Like Re said, its water soluable- she will pee out the extra. 

Give her pieces large enough she has to chew. Don't offer her pieces that she can swallow whole. Especially if you're buying whole chickens, just cut the pieces larger. that way there is no room for error. 

Best of luck, and I hope I dont sound harsh. Its just that many newbies try to rush things and jump into new proteins/treats/add-ins and its really not necessary or what its all about. Just sit back, relax, and let her get used to every. single. protein. One at a time. :smile:


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

minnieme said:


> With that said, we did go back to Evo FOR NOW to fatten her up (and she has had perfect poo thankfully).


I am very, very glad to see this. It's better not to test the theory while your dog is turning into a skeleton before your eyes. Get her fat, then try again.


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

I have a nine month old collie that has never had anything but raw. She needs bone everyday or has loose stools. All my collies do as a matter of fact. That's o.k. because it works for them. They do not have to follow percentages to the tee but you do have to give your dog what it needs. My girl has not suffered any problems due to excess calcium and she gets bone everyday.


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## BoxerPaws (Jul 19, 2011)

Hey everyone. You've all taken off an run with the discussion while I was offline!

Update: I think I get a little overworked on here, but I do feel fairly calm at home around Zoey. I was worried about her weight, because you're right, I don't know what a raw-fed puppy looks like, and her ribs were freaking me out. We had her 16-week vet visit this morning, and questions about her diet never really came up. I let them know she's been having diarrhea, but I think it's because of a change in food, and she still gets 3 meals/day, and it was left at that. What I'm feeding never came up, and I didn't volunteer the info.

Zoey weighs 19 lbs. The vet's only comment was that because she's a skinny girl with no extra fat, I would notice little lumps on her from her shots (subcutaneous fluid injection with no fat to hide under!). The vet was totally understanding when I said to please not giver her a biscuit because she's having some tummy troubles. So all-in-all, it was a good visit.

Regarding her diet: Please don't think I've been introducing proteins willy nilly. She got nothing but chicken backs for her first week or two, then nothing but chicken backs, thighs, and drums for another week or so. She was doing well (when we weren't being stupid and continuing to giver her her usual treats). Her current runny stools just started last weekend when I upped her portions because her skinny frame was bothering me so much. I've since lowered them again, and we'll see how things go. When I first introduced turkey necks, she seemed to do fine, and she only got a little bit along with her usual chicken. She started getting a turkey-only meal of turkey wing after that, but it was always padded by a couple of chicken meals on either side. She's rarely gotten a boneless chicken meal in the 4 weeks since we started. She's never had any other proteins or organs.

For the sake of her digestion, I'm pulling back on the turkey and returning to chicken only. I just bought 2 whole chickens and have them portioned out. We will need to buy more backs separately, since we don't have any right now.

Her 1 random 9-oz meal yesterday morning was completely unintentional, and showed me I can't give her larger cuts to chomp on, because she will NOT let me take them back. I did try to, and she panicked and swallowed the drumstick. I'm cutting to portion size from here on out. She did fine properly chewing another drumstick this morning, so I'm not worried about her swallowing things whole on a regular basis. 

Thank you for filling me in on the water solubility of calcium. A member of one of the Yahoo raw lists I'm on made me nervous about this; I just don't know which information to take verbatim. She told me we just had to wait out the runs and give her meatier cuts, so because it was a puppy-centered list, I thought I needed to listen. Maybe Zoey's just going to be one of those dogs that needs more bone. 

There were a lot of posts, and if there's anything I didn't address, please just point it out again and I'll cover it. I appreciate all the feedback, which does all seem to be in agreement. I know you guys know what you're doing and I'm the nervous newbie. I need to take a few breaths and step back start over.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

i think we live. we learn.

every time i made a mistake, i made it once...and i think many members do the same thing....just as we can't miraculously put weight on a dog, sometimes when we are new, we don't realise the changes that come about as we feed raw.

one thing i like about feeding raw is i don't ever have to wait to see if i am overfeeding or underfeeding....the results are fairly quick...

loose stools? oops. fed two meals of venison heart without bone. oops.
but now, almost two years later, i can correct more easily than i could in the beginning.

i know you're nervous. we all were.....it takes as much time for zoey to adjust as it will you to adjust.....i'm glad you're calm around her. that's very important.

i think you're going to be fine. you found out that giving her more isn't going to work right now...and maybe she does need more bone than others. plenty of people on this board look at the 80 10 10 as a guideline....but my older girls needs more bone than my younger boy....

it took a while to figure that out.

as far as well meaning advice goes....oy....the only thing i can say is if it doesn't make sense, look it up.

calcium is water soluble and is peed out from a healthy dog...so it's really hard to overdose on calcium....

i read other boards and lists and i have to wonder from where they are getting such ridiculous information....

on the other hand, because my dogs had problems early on, it certainly coloured my way of intro'ing a dog to raw....

then again, i wouldn't want anyone to do what i did and go through what i went through..

and i think you're going to be fine. 

just know thy dog....each mistake will teach you.....how your dog adapts to raw....


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## minnieme (Jul 6, 2011)

BoxerPaws said:


> A member of one of the Yahoo raw lists I'm on made me nervous about this; I just don't know which information to take verbatim. She told me we just had to wait out the runs and give her meatier cuts, so because it was a puppy-centered list, I thought I needed to listen. Maybe Zoey's just going to be one of those dogs that needs more bone.


To be honest, I'm not super impressed with any of the yahoo lists I belong to. The advice on here has always been MUCH better IMO. Anything that you read there that you might question....post here. Zoey DOES need more bone right now. Meatier cuts at this stage in the game WILL give her diarrhea. 

You are already faring much better than me (hehe)...you can clearly see what you need to do (go back to basics) and you're doing it. Just cut out those treats and I think things will get much, much better.


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## monkeys23 (Dec 8, 2010)

I left the yahoo groups I was on...

Sounds like you are doing the right things, wishing you good luck!


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## minnieme (Jul 6, 2011)

monkeys23 said:


> I left the yahoo groups I was on...
> 
> Sounds like you are doing the right things, wishing you good luck!


I am still appalled that someone chastised me for feeding Minnie 1% when she was having diarrhea....because clearly I was starving her and 3% would toootally stop her having the runs. GAH.


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## BoxerPaws (Jul 19, 2011)

On a positive note: she pooed runny this morning, and I noticed a bit of bone in it when I was collecting some to take to the vet (that's not the positive part, lol). *But this afternoon, she pooped out one little solid nugget; albeit mucousy, but solid!* She hasn't had turkey since Wednesday, so I guess the wings had a lot more to do with her runs than I thought. We'll go back to turkey when it's time, and try more necks (if I can find whole ones!).

Posting a few new pics momentarily. Stay tuned!


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## BoxerPaws (Jul 19, 2011)

Trying to entice her kitty sister to play.







Wrastlin' with her toys







What's up mom? Trying to play with my spidey! 







Lunch today...







Crunchy chicken-back goodness!


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

see...you found the problem, corrected it and now you'll be fine. mistakes will be made...as long as you know the old adage about feeding a little less during the beginning and increasing oh so slowly....and always go back to basics until stools are solid...

which now you know.

and you'll progress successfully.....

i was never a boxer fan....not that i didn't like the breed..i just never thought about it until a friend of mine got one.

i am a great fan now.....and yours is just adorable.


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

She is A-DOR-ABLE!!!!

Such a BEAUTIFUL girl!!!

And Im SOO glad to hear that you figured out the problem....and the perfect poop is ALWAYS something to look forward to!!:biggrin1:


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## minnieme (Jul 6, 2011)

Yay for good poop!  Just go excruciatingly slow...and no outside stuff (treats, other food, etc). Btw, I think she looks GREAT. I see what you mean about her being a little skinny -- but it seems to be only when she's stretching or in certain other positions. Overall I think she looks excellent -- shiny beautiful coat, bright eyes, a little lean...but growing growing growing! 

I wasn't a boxer fan before this forum either...but between you and Linsey (puppypaws), my heart is melting for boxers!! I just don't know if I could keep up with their energy!


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## BoxerPaws (Jul 19, 2011)

Thanks guys! We can't get enough of her cuteness. :smile:

And Minnime, sometimes her energy is pretty nutso, but I think we got a fairly calm Boxer as far as the breed goes! Hahaha. 

The good poo yesterday seemed to be a fluke, since last night she was back to slimy, mucusy runs. We'll see how today progresses.


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## minnieme (Jul 6, 2011)

Fingers crossed for you! That was how Minnie was too.....no organs hiding in that chicken, right?


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## BoxerPaws (Jul 19, 2011)

minnieme said:


> Fingers crossed for you! That was how Minnie was too.....*no organs hiding in that chicken, right?*


Nope. The meat market totally cleans out the cavity; they don't even include all the innards in a baggie!


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## minnieme (Jul 6, 2011)

Our butcher is usually METICULOUS about cleaning them out...but we did find a bit of kidney stuck in a few of our backs...buried deep below some meat and fat. 

Sorry to hear about the slimy poo....hm....this sounds all too familiar. I feel your pain. Hopefully she'll firm up soon!


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## BoxerPaws (Jul 19, 2011)

Good news! Zoey had 3 totally solid poops yesterday morning! And a VERY solid poop this morning!! WOOHOO!

Yesterday morning, she got her breakfast, and then pooped very soon thereafter. I was so freaking happy to see normal, solid poo! I decided to take her for a walk about an hour or so later, and I grabbed a plastic bag "just in case," fully expecting it to stay tied to the leash, since she'd just gone in the backyard. Nope. We got around the corner and she was squatting to go again! More nice solid poops! Continue walking, and a little while later, she squatted to pop out one last piece; it was probably the wettest of the bunch, but still what I would consider a totally normal-looking stool. I was flabbergasted by how much she'd popped out in such a short time period (all in all, it was probably 7-8 grape-tomato-sized stools), but so happy at the same time!

This morning after breakfast, she had another nice, solid stool. It was a single one, and longer, and by the way she was pushing it out, it seemed VERY solid. This, after just 3 days of basic, small chicken meals!! OMG I was such a moron before! :tongue:

Is it time to add in more skin? The lighter meals she's had, particular when she gets a chicken wing quarter, have still had skin on them, because getting the skin off a wing is just too freaking hard, lol. Her chicken thighs have been skinned, and most of the drumstick skin has been removed, too (though I did leave a bit more on this morning).

Hubs is probably picking up some backs today to work in with the boneless breasts we got off the whole chickens we cut up. Sound like a good next step?


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

it still sounds like she might be getting too much to eat....especially if the last poo was wet.....

i think i need some puppy people in here...now....because i think puppies are different in food needs than adult dogs who are on a fairly set weight....

you're feeding her three meals a day right?

and you're taking off the skin?

what is she eating per meal?

personally, i'd stay with what you are doing for a little longer. three days is good, very good....a week would be better, in my opinion.


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## BoxerPaws (Jul 19, 2011)

Yes, 3 meals every day, and she's gotten no more than 4.5 - 5 oz MAX in the last 3 days. She got 4.1 oz for breakfast yesterday, 4.5 or .6 for lunch, and I think around 4.8 or so for dinner (it's the way the cuts worked out that she got from the whole chicken we bought). She's gotten a drumstick, a wing quarter (wing attached to some back), or a thigh for the most part for her meals.

When I saw the final poop piece yesterday was "wet" I don't mean it was at all runny. It just didn't have the matte appearance of the first 2 poos (ever so slightly moist looking), but was pretty much just as solid. 

Skin comes off everything with the exception of a few bits that I have a really hard time with (like on the bony end of a drumstick or the tips of wings).


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

ah, i see. 

did you ever think you'd be discussing poo in such descriptive detail? 

personally, if this were my puppy, the first thing i'd do is add skin back to one meal for a few days, then to two meals for a few days, then to all three meals....

if she stays solid for that time, then tiny pieces of boneless can be added to the rotation....

just watch the poo. it tells the entire story and will show you to continue adding on skin or boneless or to back off and give bony only.....

once she is acclimated to raw, it won't be quite this intense with watching every morsel that goes into her mouth.

but for now, i think you're doing very well and so is she.


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## jenv101 (Oct 13, 2010)

I think it's pretty normal to have a 'wet' poo on a walk. The exercise and stimulation of the walk sometimes makes them have to go even if they didn't have to go before, or even if they had just gone. So, I wouldn't be concerned about it. Glad to hear things are firming up!


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## BoxerPaws (Jul 19, 2011)

magicre said:


> ah, i see.
> 
> did you ever think you'd be discussing poo in such descriptive detail?


Haha! NO! Never in a million years, not even with a doctor! LOL!

I'll convey this to the hubs and make sure he gets a couple more whole chickens and not just backs, since she's doing really well on the rotation of all chicken parts. Her lunch today was a thigh and skinless, and since her leg this morning had some skin on, we'll go skinless for dinner, too.

 Thanks for the input, Re.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

jenv101 said:


> I think it's pretty normal to have a 'wet' poo on a walk. The exercise and stimulation of the walk sometimes makes them have to go even if they didn't have to go before, or even if they had just gone. So, I wouldn't be concerned about it. Glad to hear things are firming up!


that was my bad....i misunderstood the 'wet'....but then it was wholly explained and it's fine LOL


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

BoxerPaws said:


> Haha! NO! Never in a million years, not even with a doctor! LOL!
> 
> I'll convey this to the hubs and make sure he gets a couple more whole chickens and not just backs, since she's doing really well on the rotation of all chicken parts. Her lunch today was a thigh and skinless, and since her leg this morning had some skin on, we'll go skinless for dinner, too.
> 
> Thanks for the input, Re.


as i was told....painfully slow....agonisingly slow.....and all will be well....you're doing great.


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## BoxerPaws (Jul 19, 2011)

More good poops the last couple of days! We're on 4 days straight of totally solid poop! HOLY CRAP!! (forgive the pun, lol).

She's been getting some skin here and there; we'll continue adding it back in (I've got just the drumstick in mind for dinner tonight!).

If things continue as they are, do you think I can bump her up to 5-5.5-oz portions this weekend? She's getting less than 5 oz right now across the board for her meals. Depending on the cuts, they're anywhere from 4.1 oz-4.8 for the most part.


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## jenv101 (Oct 13, 2010)

BoxerPaws said:


> More good poops the last couple of days! We're on 4 days straight of totally solid poop! HOLY CRAP!! (forgive the pun, lol).


Awesome news!! :thumb:


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

BoxerPaws said:


> More good poops the last couple of days! We're on 4 days straight of totally solid poop! HOLY CRAP!! (forgive the pun, lol).
> 
> She's been getting some skin here and there; we'll continue adding it back in (I've got just the drumstick in mind for dinner tonight!).
> 
> If things continue as they are, do you think I can bump her up to 5-5.5-oz portions this weekend? She's getting less than 5 oz right now across the board for her meals. Depending on the cuts, they're anywhere from 4.1 oz-4.8 for the most part.


first i would in skin and fat and see what she does.....when she's done that, then 

personally, i'd bump one meal up first and see how she is......if she's fine for the same four days, you can bump up the second meal.



and then when she's fine for four days, you can intro another protein.....starting with little bits incorporated into first one, then both regular meals..


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## BoxerPaws (Jul 19, 2011)

magicre said:


> first i would in skin and fat and see what she does.....when she's done that, then
> 
> personally, i'd bump one meal up first and see how she is......if she's fine for the same four days, you can bump up the second meal.
> 
> ...


She's actually still getting 3 meals. I'd love to get her to 2, but I think she's just still too young. She is starting to get more skin. Her drumstick last night had the skin on. Her breakfast today didn't. But she seems to be handling a meal or 2 per day with skin just fine.  

So, so long as she maintains through the weekend, we'll start slowly increasing her meal sizes. Eating less than a pound a day for a growing Boxer puppy isn't ideal, so as long as her tummy keeps on tolerating well, we'll bump her up slowly!


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

BoxerPaws said:


> She's actually still getting 3 meals. I'd love to get her to 2, but I think she's just still too young. She is starting to get more skin. Her drumstick last night had the skin on. Her breakfast today didn't. But she seems to be handling a meal or 2 per day with skin just fine.
> 
> So, so long as she maintains through the weekend, we'll start slowly increasing her meal sizes. Eating less than a pound a day for a growing Boxer puppy isn't ideal, so as long as her tummy keeps on tolerating well, we'll bump her up slowly!


she's doing well...and probably needs the three meals....i just wanted you to add in the skin and fat back first...before you increase the size of her meals....and then slowly increase...

you can increase her first meal of the day as you're adding in the skin and fat to all of her meals.....and then increase the size of her second meal and then her third meal and once she's stable on more food and all of the fat and skin, you'll be ready for a new protein


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