# Untrainable dogs?



## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

Hey guys, as you probably know I am looking to get another pup (I've made a few posts about it) and I have decided on getting a sighthound. I currently have a sheltie. Shelties are one of the most trainable dogs out there, and he was potty trained within three weeks or so and hasn't had an accident since about 12 weeks of age. Italian greyhounds are meant to be an entirely different story.. apparently some people NEVER get their IGs fully trained. I'm not looking for an entirely obedient dog by any means and I don't expect that from a sighthound; but I don't want a dog peeing on my floor either for the next 15 years.

I don't have a whole lot of experience from dogs but I used common sense with my sheltie, I crate trained, let him out a whole lot and used a command "go pee!" when outside and he got it pretty quick. 

So my question is, can all dogs be trained to pee outside? Is it just a matter of consistency? Or are some dogs truly "untrainable"?

PS Sorry about all my posts regarding a new dog I am just doing a lot of research about the breed I want so I make the right choice in my new pup. :smile:


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

No I dont buy into the thought that some dogs are just untrainable. The dogs who are deemed untrainable by people are done so not because they cannot be trained, it's because the people don't necessarily know how to train a dog that requires a bit more help. 

Just keep on top of potty training with your new pup as if you're training another sheltie.


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## chowder (Sep 7, 2008)

Lhasa Apso's are notoriously hard to housebreak. They would rather get scolded then have to step outdoors, step on grass, get their feet wet, etc etc etc. They will also willing go in their crates and trod all in it without a problem! They are actually filthy little dogs for something so cute and pretty!

However, I've managed to train my Lhasa's eventually. It just takes a whole lot more work then a Chow (who comes housebroken from the day they are born just about). You just have to do a lot more trips outside and a lot more reinforcement. But, if Lhasa's can be trained, then any dog can be trained!


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

chowder said:


> Lhasa Apso's are notoriously hard to housebreak. They would rather get scolded then have to step outdoors, step on grass, get their feet wet, etc etc etc. They will also willing go in their crates and trod all in it without a problem! They are actually filthy little dogs for something so cute and pretty!
> 
> However, I've managed to train my Lhasa's eventually. It just takes a whole lot more work then a Chow (who comes housebroken from the day they are born just about). You just have to do a lot more trips outside and a lot more reinforcement. But, if Lhasa's can be trained, then any dog can be trained!


agreed, as are shih tzus.....we took them out every half hour and kept stretching the time.....and they did eventually house train.....i admit, other dogs are easier....even my pug, who at two years old was not fixed nor housetrained....

but i don't believe, either, as natalie said that a dog can't be housetrained...i think it's totally up to the commitment of the owner of the dog.


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

I do not believe there is such a thing as an Untrainable dog. I think that some take more work than others, but any dog can be potty trained in time.


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## 3Musketeers (Nov 4, 2010)

The train-ability of any dog greatly depends on the determination and persistence of the owner.
Not to say some dogs aren't easier than others, hope that made some sense.


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## Celt (Dec 27, 2010)

I am owned by 2 iggies, and they are a little different. I know that getting mine to go outside in "bad" weather is unique. The boys prefer a "dry" surface to go on. So they get the back section of the porch when it's nasty out or we got a "pop-up" kennel that has a "grass scented" piddle pad in it that was turned into a "restroom". They also like their "area" to be clean. A pad can only be used once in this house and the "potty area" gets changed about once a week. I personally never had "problems" with training the boys but I did have to adapt alittle. One thing that is recommended is to put the pups on a schedule, I didn't really do this but we always had someone home with them.


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## lily (May 16, 2011)

try a bulldog!!,she knows where to pee and most of the time she will go to her pee gravel but then she will give me a filthy look and squat,she doesnt go all night ,if i dont get up at 5 am then she will pee and poop!!!,good job i dont sleep much,we did let her sleep in our room for a couple of weeks just to see if she would be clean,well she was ,she never stirred all night for the first week,then the second week she started waking me up at 4 am!!!,so i put her back in the kitchen,shes crated up with another crate joined onto it for her toileting as she will pee and poop on her bedding and sleep in it!!!,she also scent marks her bedding though that has lessoned somewhat,ive tried every way to get her clean but was getting frustrated with her ,so now im just relaxed about the situation,she is my 5th bulldog in the last 20 yrs and the only dirty one ive had,we call it dirty bitch syndrome lol,karen


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

frenchies are notorious for being hard to housetrain too. murph is 90% there, but there are times (maybe once or twice a month?) where if he's gotta go, he'll just go. give no warning. there's been times where he's squatted and peed right in front of me, while staring directly at me. he will poop in the house if he can sneak off to a corner (and then eat it ugh).


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## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

I didn't know bulldogs are hard to train (as well as frenchies!) I was considering getting one but then I heard they snore LOL between the dog and my boyfriend I'd never get sleep.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

bishopthesheltie said:


> I didn't know bulldogs are hard to train (as well as frenchies!) I was considering getting one but then I heard they snore LOL between the dog and my boyfriend I'd never get sleep.



Bulldogs are typically stubborn and...bullheaded.



I was going to make a thread about this a few days ago. I've been trying to do some basic obedience training with my frenchie. In the year I've had him, I have taught him to *drumroll* sit. That's it. I've been trying to teach him to lay down or give me his paw. He just stares intently at the treat in my hand. He just doesn't get it or doesn't want to. I'm not sure which.

Now, there are exceptions to the rule I'm sure, I've seen frenchies and english bulldogs compete in rally or obedience. But I think as a whole, that's the typical experience, that they are hard to train lol. 


Just searched this on youtube. You have GOT to be effing kidding me lol....


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## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

Lol.. he's smart! And adorable, though I prefer the brindle ones!

That's what I am worried about with my IG.. I know it won't be a breeze to train like my sheltie.. but I still want it to learn stuff.


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## lily (May 16, 2011)

its just the toilet training she fails at,she sits,stays,drop it,leave it ,paw,i know its only basic commands but quite good for a bulldog lol,shes sell her soul to the devil for a treat lol,karen


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

lily said:


> its just the toilet training she fails at,she sits,stays,drop it,leave it ,paw,i know its only basic commands but quite good for a bulldog lol,shes sell her soul to the devil for a treat lol,karen


My guy lives to eat but even with treats, he just won't/can't understand how to even lay down or give a paw?? Argh.


Lol, I was just refilling the treat dish. Murph was in the bed on the floor sleeping. I poured some treats in it and thought "I bet he's gonna lift his head." I looked back at the bed .1 second later and the bed is empty. I look on my other side and he's sitting like a good boy looking up at me like "pwease?"


Bishop- have you thought about whippets? I lived with one for awhile and she was a smart cookie and I think are not difficult to train. I also like that whippets aren't so frail like IG's. I think they are the perfect size.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

meggels said:


> frenchies are notorious for being hard to housetrain too. murph is 90% there, but there are times (maybe once or twice a month?) where if he's gotta go, he'll just go. give no warning. there's been times where he's squatted and peed right in front of me, while staring directly at me. he will poop in the house if he can sneak off to a corner (and then eat it ugh).


this is the reason we used belly bands on bubba who used to do the same thing. we figured it was because he had not ever been housetrained, so did not know how to signal he wanted to go out...

we took him out every 30 minutes and stretched the time like we do with every dog, but when he was in the house, he wore belly bands...just in case....because he also just 'went'.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

bishopthesheltie said:


> I didn't know bulldogs are hard to train (as well as frenchies!) I was considering getting one but then I heard they snore LOL between the dog and my boyfriend I'd never get sleep.


have the dog's nose checked for narrowing of the nares.....for a 150.00 they get their noses rotorooted and then they barely snore...just like pugs or any other smush faced dogs....it's better for them to breathe freely anyway...


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

I have to agree with everyone...I dont believe in an un-trainable dog either!(Un-trainable human...YES!!) If needed I will take the dogs out every 10 min until they figure it out!



chowder said:


> Lhasa Apso's are notoriously hard to housebreak. They would rather get scolded then have to step outdoors, step on grass, get their feet wet, etc etc etc. They will also willing go in their crates and trod all in it without a problem! They are actually filthy little dogs for something so cute and pretty!
> 
> However, I've managed to train my Lhasa's eventually. It just takes a whole lot more work then a Chow (who comes housebroken from the day they are born just about). You just have to do a lot more trips outside and a lot more reinforcement. But, if Lhasa's can be trained, then any dog can be trained!


Really?! I have NEVER heard that one...I guess it depends on what the breeder does! My male was house broke after I had had him for one week(so when he was 9 weeks old!) When growing up we had 5 litters of Lhasa all of them where 95% house broke by time they went to their new homes at 9-10weeks old!




meggels said:


> frenchies are notorious for being hard to housetrain too. murph is 90% there, but there are times (maybe once or twice a month?) where if he's gotta go, he'll just go. give no warning. there's been times where he's squatted and peed right in front of me, while staring directly at me. he will poop in the house if he can sneak off to a corner (and then eat it ugh).





meggels said:


> Bulldogs are typically stubborn and...bullheaded.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Again I guess it is how your mind set is...and what you are use to dealing with! My Mum's Frenchie was pretty much a carbon copy of that video at that age! :wink: Not saying he isnt hard headed....he HATES rain and will hold himself for hours if given the chance!LOL



NOW the Basset was a tricky one!! She wasnt fully house broke till she was 4-ish!:twitch: But after her my Mum just didnt give the Frenchie a choice, he was either going to be telling her when he wanted to go out or go out with her every 10 minutes on the dot!:heh:


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

Even my friend who breeds and shows frenchies said that Murph is a little "special" lol. And the dog trainer he had puppy class with (not in a petsmart or something, this is a guy who trains police dogs in the state) had a hard time (and I don't know if he even succeeded...) in getting Murph to lay down or shake during training time...

A lot of the european bred frenchies I've met seem to have brains that are constantly working. They also tend to be a little more intense. 

Even if my boy isn't the brightest bulb, I still love him lol.


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

meggels said:


> Even my friend who breeds and shows frenchies said that Murph is a little "special" lol. And the dog trainer he had puppy class with (not in a petsmart or something, this is a guy who trains police dogs in the state) had a hard time (and I don't know if he even succeeded...) in getting Murph to lay down or shake during training time...
> 
> A lot of the european bred frenchies I've met seem to have brains that are constantly working. They also tend to be a little more intense.
> 
> Even if my boy isn't the brightest bulb, I still love him lol.


HAHA...That made me laugh! That is how the Basset was! We took her to 3 different hound trainers...couldnt get anything into her brain!LOL But we loved her anyways!


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Meggels- you should get a treat bag that hangs on your belt or pants while training. Him staring at the treat in your hand isn't a good thing and unless you completely remove the treat from your hand that is all he will focus on. 

Keep treats on you as frequently as possible, this may mean wearing the treat bag all day. 

Instead of trying to teach him to "down" by luring or command based, start reinforcing him when he lays down by himself for a nap, etc. If he gets up after you reinforce laying ignore him. Wait until he lays down again to reinforce. Once he understands that laying down earns a treat, then name it "down" or "lay" or whatever. It may take a couple weeks but he will learn it. Your timing just has to be impecable.


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## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

Having a "special" dog rather than a whip-smart dog isn't always a bad thing.. with my sheltie I have to not only do a lot of exercise physically but I have to do mental exercises too.. I do obedience and toy finding. He gets bored easily and is destructive if I don't keep up with exercise.

There are ups and downs to both!

Maybe an "average" dog would be easiest.


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## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

meggels said:


> Bishop- have you thought about whippets? I lived with one for awhile and she was a smart cookie and I think are not difficult to train. I also like that whippets aren't so frail like IG's. I think they are the perfect size.


I love whippets, probably the most of all dogs. The only thing is I have cats and they can be notorious cat chasers (I know italian greyhounds are too, all sight hounds are, but they are a lot smaller and less capable of doing actual damage). I am sure they are fine being raised with them, but my kitties are my babies and I don't want to take the risk.


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## Celt (Dec 27, 2010)

IGs can be quite "smart". Scotty taught himself how to open "water bottles". His favorite thing is to take one (preferably one with liquid in it) up into someone's lap and open it. He keeps the bottle upright until it's open then lets it "slip", wetting the lap he's in. I haven't experience any destruction from boredom, but "paper" has been shredded in a "temper" at being "ignored". One warning, they are "slinky" dogs. It's amazing how far they can stretch.


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## chowder (Sep 7, 2008)

Scarlett_O' said:


> Really?! I have NEVER heard that one...I guess it depends on what the breeder does! My male was house broke after I had had him for one week(so when he was 9 weeks old!) When growing up we had 5 litters of Lhasa all of them where 95% house broke by time they went to their new homes at 9-10weeks old!


My Lhasa's came from totally different parts of the country and totally different breeders but they were all difficult to housebreak. None of them liked to step in grass at all and just preferred to go on the sidewalk or the driveway. And none of them ever figured out how to 'tell' us that they had to go out so we just had to make sure and take them out frequently. Of course, Chelsy has an excuse since she was paralyzed really young and never quite recovered so I give her a little leeway. But, she actually came from a breeder that had obedience titled Lhasa's so it's not that she isn't smart....just stubborn!


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## KittyKat (Feb 11, 2011)

bishopthesheltie said:


> I love whippets, probably the most of all dogs. The only thing is I have cats and they can be notorious cat chasers (I know italian greyhounds are too, all sight hounds are, but they are a lot smaller and less capable of doing actual damage). I am sure they are fine being raised with them, but my kitties are my babies and I don't want to take the risk.


My cats are my babies too. Piper has never tried anything with them, besides licking them. Whippets are no different from other sighthounds when it comes to other pets. I know a lot of whippet owners, and none of them have had issues with their cats. My cats even go outside with the dog. 

Yeah she annoys them sometimes (she tries to give her toys to the cats... and they glare at her) but she wouldn't try anything with them.


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## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

I guess it is more how they are raised. I suppose lots of other dogs besides sighthounds have high prey drives.. our neighbour's pit bull and my cat are best friends, lol. And pitties are supposed to have high prey drives. I might look at a few IG and whippet breeders and ask about both.

Have you ever taken your whippet offleash? Everyone says not to but we have a huge dog park here (not enclosed, but there is cliffs on three sides and no roads nearby) and I have seen whippets and afghans offleash.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

bishopthesheltie said:


> I guess it is more how they are raised. I suppose lots of other dogs besides sighthounds have high prey drives.. our neighbour's pit bull and my cat are best friends, lol. And pitties are supposed to have high prey drives. I might look at a few IG and whippet breeders and ask about both.
> 
> Have you ever taken your whippet offleash? Everyone says not to but we have a huge dog park here (not enclosed, but there is cliffs on three sides and no roads nearby) and I have seen whippets and afghans offleash.


Lol 






I miss living with a whippet. Wah.


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## lily (May 16, 2011)

believe me ,i took annie out every half hour until she got the hang of toileting,during the day she rarely has an accident,but at night i cannot do that,i know she can hold it as shes slept in my room and never peed /pooped,but left on her own at night she always pees/poops,very very lazy and stubborn lol,karen


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## Herzo (Feb 5, 2011)

meggels I missed this before. That's to funny. Is this your dog?


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

lily said:


> believe me ,i took annie out every half hour until she got the hang of toileting,during the day she rarely has an accident,but at night i cannot do that,i know she can hold it as shes slept in my room and never peed /pooped,but left on her own at night she always pees/poops,very very lazy and stubborn lol,karen


when you say 'left on her own', are you talking about night time or when you're not home? and she has the run of the house?


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## KittyKat (Feb 11, 2011)

bishopthesheltie said:


> I guess it is more how they are raised. I suppose lots of other dogs besides sighthounds have high prey drives.. our neighbour's pit bull and my cat are best friends, lol. And pitties are supposed to have high prey drives. I might look at a few IG and whippet breeders and ask about both.
> 
> Have you ever taken your whippet offleash? Everyone says not to but we have a huge dog park here (not enclosed, but there is cliffs on three sides and no roads nearby) and I have seen whippets and afghans offleash.


Ah yes, I take her off leash every day at a nearby park where she has her zoomies. I practiced recall with her hardcore though. She's great off leash. Piper's breeder insisted that I take her off leash, and I was nervous because she was 4 months old - and well, she was fine.

We have a big backyard and she loves to tear around in it.

She also loves to swim. =)


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

Herzo said:


> meggels I missed this before. That's to funny. Is this your dog?




Nope, that was a whippet I lived with for awhile when I was living with a friend and her family. But after living with her, I want a whippet someday!


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## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

Lol I am SO excited to finally get a sighthound. I love how they zoom around. I hope my IG does the same <3. Even though they are like 10lb apparently they can still run 10km faster than the average dog.. and the average dog is like what, 45lb? LOL he will run circles around my sheltie.. he is so slow. Was your whippet fast right from a puppy? I love how even as a puppy when most pups have short legs and fat tummies they still have long gangly legs lol


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