# Orijen or Taste of the Wild?



## Clark

I's switching foods for my 3 month old boxer that i'm currently feeding Simply Nourish. Orijen or Taste of the Wild?


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## Scarlett_O'

If you can afford Orijen or Acana then I would suggest one of them, BY FAR!!!


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## Feedingtime

Neither. Don't get suckered by Orijen especially. At least TOTW is cheap but it is crap. Feed a simple chicken meal and whole grain formula. If you want to use a GF then Annamaet Salcha is the only one I trust. Other good choices are:

Annamaet Ultra, Extra or Encore
Dr Tim's Kinesis
Precise Foundation or the other Precise Formulas
Best Breed
Pro Plan Select
Verus
Fromm Gold
Canidae

Avoid foods like Castor & Pollux, The Honest Kitchen, Natural Balance and all Merrick products


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## Scarlett_O'

Feedingtime said:


> Neither. Don't get suckered by Orijen especially. At least TOTW is cheap but it is crap. Feed a simple chicken meal and whole grain formula. If you want to use a GF then Annamaet Salcha is the only one I trust. Other good choices are:
> 
> Annamaet Ultra, Extra or Encore
> Dr Tim's Kinesis
> Precise Foundation or the other Precise Formulas
> Best Breed
> Pro Plan Select
> Verus
> Fromm Gold
> Canidae
> 
> Avoid foods like Castor & Pollux, The Honest Kitchen, Natural Balance and all Merrick products


HAHHAHAHAHHAHA

You say you stay away from The Honest Kitchen, Orijen and TOTW but suggest crap like pro plan select, and most of the others you suggested which have VERY little meat in them!!??!! 

You do realize that we are feeding CARNIVORES here, right?!???


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## tuckersmom20

Scarlett_O' said:


> HAHHAHAHAHHAHA
> 
> You say you stay away from The Honest Kitchen, Orijen and TOTW but suggest crap like pro plan select, and most of the others you suggested which have VERY little meat in them!!??!!
> 
> You do realize that we are feeding CARNIVORES here, right?!???


You stole the thoughts right out of my head!!!! Lol

So u say orijen is crap yet pro plan is better.... Wow.


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## kady05

Pro Plan Select.. Orijen.. those really don't belong in the same sentence!

I have fed both TOTW and Orijen. Wilson currently eats Orijen Adult and does great on it. If you can afford to feed Orijen, I'd pick that over the TOTW.


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## Feedingtime

Scarlett_O' said:


> HAHHAHAHAHHAHA
> 
> You say you stay away from The Honest Kitchen, Orijen and TOTW but suggest crap like pro plan select, and most of the others you suggested which have VERY little meat in them!!??!!
> 
> You do realize that we are feeding CARNIVORES here, right?!???


Ahhhh yeah sure babe....99% of the dogs on the planet need no more than a 25% protein food and about 100 grams of protein a day. Any more and your dog is literally pissing your money away.

The Honest Kitchen is a bunch of hipsters with no professional experience with dogs of any kind. It is a total gimmick food. 

You keeping drinking the KoolAid, its your money.


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## Feedingtime

kady05 said:


> Pro Plan Select.. Orijen.. those really don't belong in the same sentence!
> 
> I have fed both TOTW and Orijen. Wilson currently eats Orijen Adult and does great on it. If you can afford to feed Orijen, I'd pick that over the TOTW.


Generally I am not a Purina fan but Select is a solid food especially the Turkey and Salmon formulas and they are easy to get. Purina has great expertise and Select is a good solid food, more than enough protein and fat for a companion animal. Is it perfect, no, but if TOTW was free I buy buy Pro Plan Select. TOTW is crap.


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## meggels

Whyyyyy does this same person come back every month or so and post the same things lol...


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## Scarlett_O'

Feedingtime said:


> Ahhhh yeah sure babe....99% of the dogs on the planet need no more than a 25% protein food and about 100 grams of protein a day. Any more and your dog is literally pissing your money away.
> 
> The Honest Kitchen is a bunch of hipsters with no professional experience with dogs of any kind. It is a total gimmick food.
> 
> You keeping drinking the KoolAid, its your money.


yaaaaaa....cause feeding a species appropriate diet is SOO for hippies and bunny huggers and such!!:twitch:


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## xellil

Babe? Sheesh.


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## Feedingtime

Listen its your choice. You can feed your dog food designed by this person at The Honest Kitchen, who was a pet sitter and massage therapist:

"Nutrition Consultant: After the loss of her beloved feline friend, Cheeba, followed by a year abroad in New Zealand, she is settling back in to her hometown of San Diego. She looks forward to the day a new 4-legged companion (or two) finds its way into her home and heart. Kat is trained in therapeutic canine massage and acupressure and has been doing professional pet sitting since 2006"

Or you can feed your dog a food designed by this guy who is known internationally:

About Robert Downey
• Lifelong involvement with dogs
• Graduate of The Ohio State University
• Graduate work at University of Pennsylvania School of Veterinary Medicine
• President of Annamaet Petfoods
• Currently maintains a kennel of 25 racing sled dogs.
• 2006 8-Dog & 10-Dog ISDRA Gold Medalist
• 2008 8-Dog North American Champion
• 2009 Bronze Medal IFSS World Championship
• Vice Chairman of the International Sled Dog Racing Association


Works by Robert Downey
• Downey, R.L., Kronfeld, D.S. and Banta, C.A. "Diet of Beagles Affects Stamina." Journal American Animal 
Hospital Association, Vol. 16 (1980), pp. 273 - 7.
• Kronfeld, D.S., Downey, R.L., "Nutritional Strategies for Stamina in Dogs and Horses." Proceedings, Nutrition 
Society Australia, Vol. 6 (1981), pp. 21 - 9.
• Kronfeld, D.S., Atkins, T.O., and Downey, R.L., "Nutrition, Anaerobic and Aerobic Exercise, and Stress." 
Nutrition of the Dog and Cat, Ed. Burger, I.H., Rivers, J. P. W. New York: Cambridge University Press, 1989, 
pp. 133 - 45.
• Kronfeld, D.S., Downey, R.L., and Banta, C.A. "Stamina of Beagles is Influenced by Diet." Proceedings, 
American College Veterinary Internal Medicine, Seattle (1979), p. 105.
• Downey, R.L. "Feeding for Winning." Hounds and Hunting Vol. 76 (1979), pp. 32 - 36.
• Downey, R.L. "Musher (With a Difference!) With Leatha Braden." Siberian World, Vol. 3 (1979), pp. 3 - 8.
• Downey, R.L. "Heat Stress in Dogs." Howl Magazine

It is your choice


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## Scarlett_O'

xellil said:


> Babe? Sheesh.


Yaaa....I didnt touch that one...cause I dont have anything nice to say to anyone who calls me that!:wink:


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## Scarlett_O'

Feedingtime said:


> Listen its your choice. You can feed your dog food designed by this person at The Honest Kitchen, who was a pet sitter and massage therapist:
> 
> "Nutrition Consultant: After the loss of her beloved feline friend, Cheeba, followed by a year abroad in New Zealand, she is settling back in to her hometown of San Diego. She looks forward to the day a new 4-legged companion (or two) finds its way into her home and heart. Kat is trained in therapeutic canine massage and acupressure and has been doing professional pet sitting since 2006"
> 
> Or you can feed your dog a food designed by this guy who is known internationally:
> 
> About Robert Downey
> • Lifelong involvement with dogs
> • Graduate of The Ohio State University
> • Graduate work at University of Pennsylvania School of Veterinary Medicine
> • President of Annamaet Petfoods
> • Currently maintains a kennel of 25 racing sled dogs.
> • 2006 8-Dog & 10-Dog ISDRA Gold Medalist
> • 2008 8-Dog North American Champion
> • 2009 Bronze Medal IFSS World Championship
> • Vice Chairman of the International Sled Dog Racing Association
> 
> 
> Works by Robert Downey
> • Downey, R.L., Kronfeld, D.S. and Banta, C.A. "Diet of Beagles Affects Stamina." Journal American Animal
> Hospital Association, Vol. 16 (1980), pp. 273 - 7.
> • Kronfeld, D.S., Downey, R.L., "Nutritional Strategies for Stamina in Dogs and Horses." Proceedings, Nutrition
> Society Australia, Vol. 6 (1981), pp. 21 - 9.
> • Kronfeld, D.S., Atkins, T.O., and Downey, R.L., "Nutrition, Anaerobic and Aerobic Exercise, and Stress."
> Nutrition of the Dog and Cat, Ed. Burger, I.H., Rivers, J. P. W. New York: Cambridge University Press, 1989,
> pp. 133 - 45.
> • Kronfeld, D.S., Downey, R.L., and Banta, C.A. "Stamina of Beagles is Influenced by Diet." Proceedings,
> American College Veterinary Internal Medicine, Seattle (1979), p. 105.
> • Downey, R.L. "Feeding for Winning." Hounds and Hunting Vol. 76 (1979), pp. 32 - 36.
> • Downey, R.L. "Musher (With a Difference!) With Leatha Braden." Siberian World, Vol. 3 (1979), pp. 3 - 8.
> • Downey, R.L. "Heat Stress in Dogs." Howl Magazine
> 
> It is your choice


I choose to do neither.....but DEFINITELY would NOT be feeding this if I where ever to stoop low enough to feed processed foods again!!!
Top 5 ingredients in your guy's food....
Chicken Meal, Brown Rice, Millet, Rolled Oats, Pearled Barley


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## Caty M

Feedingtime, you realize that virtually all kibbles, watered down to the strength of raw, ie around 70-75% moisture, are LOWER protein and fat than raw is?


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## CavePaws

Feedingtime said:


> Ahhhh yeah sure babe....99% of the dogs on the planet need no more than a 25% protein food and about 100 grams of protein a day. Any more and your dog is literally pissing your money away.
> 
> The Honest Kitchen is a bunch of hipsters with no professional experience with dogs of any kind. It is a total gimmick food.
> 
> You keeping drinking the KoolAid, its your money.


Just because a dogs nutritional requirement calls for around 25% protein doesn't mean you have to fill their kibble with crappy quality ingredients. Personally I feel commercial brands have a lot of unnecessary ingredients, however, some companies actually bother to include more species appropriate foods in order to compensate for the amount of carbohydrates included. These companies seem to recognize that Canis lupus familiaris is of order carnivora and has the anatomy of a predator; meaning they are designed to digest a meat based diet more efficiently than a plant based diet. Quality ingredients matter to me a lot...our standards are just worlds apart I guess!


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## Caty M

CavePaws said:


> Just because a dogs nutritional requirement calls for around 25% protein


That's not on a dry matter basis. That's on an 'as fed' basis as they would get in the wild- water inclusive. On a dry matter basis most meats would be at least 60% protein.


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## Clark

Clark said:


> I's switching foods for my 3 month old boxer that i'm currently feeding Simply Nourish. Orijen or Taste of the Wild?


haha I just saw pricing on Orijen! i guess i'm getting Taste of the Wild because nowhere near me carries Acana or Fromm.


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## CavePaws

Caty M said:


> That's not on a dry matter basis. That's on an 'as fed' basis as they would get in the wild- water inclusive. On a dry matter basis most meats would be at least 60% protein.


Then buy a high protein meat based kibble and add water to it. Tada. Still not completely "species appropriate" as the foods are not in their whole form, but at least this wet kibble will provide meat based sources of protein. Rather than the protein being 28%-32% because of tons of "extra" plant matter, I would rather the higher protein content or protein content itself be made up almost entirely of meat.


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## leilaquinn

I know that Orijen is a "better" food, by far, but before starting raw, I had Luigi on both Orijen and TOTW. He was on two different types of orijen before I switched back to TOTW, he was gassy to an intolerable degree on Orijen and his poop was always like mucusy soft serve ice creamhwell:. For him TOTW worked better, for what ever reason, though the wetlands also made him gassy. One of my favorite things about switching to raw is his lack of gas for the first time in his life, pretty much no gas at all, or at least not the room clearing kind. He was actually doing really well on TOTW, and if I were to go back to kibble that's what I would probably go back to.


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## shellbell

I am not a fan of Champion Pet Foods (Orijen) or Diamond (Taste of the Wild). Both have a history of too many quality control issues, IMO.


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## Scarlett_O'

shellbell said:


> I am not a fan of Champion Pet Foods (Orijen) or Diamond (Taste of the Wild). Both have a history of too many quality control issues, IMO.


There are only a couple things with CPF that I know of, neither of which where that big of a thing when it came to being CPF's fault....granted the issue in Aus should have been addressed by Champion and NOT ever been done...but they fixed it pretty quick! :wink: 
And the Salmon bones...well that isnt that big of a deal, IMO, a bunch of stupid owners being stupid!

But if you know of something else, please do share! :wink:


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## shellbell

Scarlett_O' said:


> But if you know of something else, please do share! :wink:


I know of the two issues above, and then there was one recently (within the past year) with bags of food having mold, and dogs getting sick. I wasn't feeding Orijen at the time, but know a few people who were. Their customer service was TERRIBLE when people tried to contact them about this issue. I know that is only three known issues, but I have just never had a good gut feeling about Champion....


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## Scarlett_O'

shellbell said:


> I know of the two issues above, and then there was one recently (within the past year) with bags of food having mold, and dogs getting sick. I wasn't feeding Orijen at the time, but know a few people who were. Their customer service was TERRIBLE when people tried to contact them about this issue. I know that is only three known issues, but I have just never had a good gut feeling about Champion....


Hmmm...I havent heard of that one...do you happen to have any links??


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## shellbell

Scarlett_O' said:


> Hmmm...I havent heard of that one...do you happen to have any links??


It was posted about on another forum I am on....the FDA was told about it, but I just googled and couldn't find anything "official" about it. I can try to find the link to the thread if you want. It wasn't so much the mold issue that was a concern, as to the way the company responded when people started calling in with questions. I don't know, maybe I'm biased to begin with when it comes to giving an opinion about Orijen, b/c for whatever reason I just don't feel that good about it. I fed a couple bags of it a little over a year ago, but did not stay on it long....


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## Scarlett_O'

shellbell said:


> It was posted about on another forum I am on....the FDA was told about it, but I just googled and couldn't find anything "official" about it. I can try to find the link to the thread if you want. It wasn't so much the mold issue that was a concern, as to the way the company responded when people started calling in with questions. I don't know, maybe I'm biased to begin with when it comes to giving an opinion about Orijen, b/c for whatever reason I just don't feel that good about it. I fed a couple bags of it a little over a year ago, but did not stay on it long....


Yes that would be great! You can PM it to me, or post it on my profile if you would like!:smile:

My Brody did FAR better on Acana(the only CPF food Ive fed)then on any other processed food that he was ever on!:smile:


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## shellbell

Here you go...

FDA Investigation of Orijen Regional Red


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## xellil

Interesting - I found this page where people were reporting that their dogs who had done well on Orijen for a long time were suddenly refusing to eat and getting sick on the new bags - this was just a couple months ago:

Orijen Dog Food Recall? » dogblog


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## speeddts

If you can afford it, Orijen is the best kibble. But TOTW wetlands is also a more budget friendly alternative and is an excellent choice as well.

Is there some reason you have limited your choice to the either or? There are excellent other kibbles out there also, such as Wilderness Salmon by Blue, Go by Petucurean, Instinct Chicken or Beef, Wellness Core (my dog doesnt like the chicken but prefers the fish formula). Again TOTW cost less than all of these options.

If you live near a Tractor Supply, they often have TOTW on sale at a very reasonable price. Here in the bay area, Petclub has the large bag around $37.99 to $40 everyday which is a great value.


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## Clark

speeddts said:


> If you can afford it, Orijen is the best kibble. But TOTW wetlands is also a more budget friendly alternative and is an excellent choice as well.
> 
> Is there some reason you have limited your choice to the either or? There are excellent other kibbles out there also, such as Wilderness Salmon by Blue, Go by Petucurean, Instinct Chicken or Beef, Wellness Core (my dog doesnt like the chicken but prefers the fish formula). Again TOTW cost less than all of these options.
> 
> If you live near a Tractor Supply, they often have TOTW on sale at a very reasonable price. Here in the bay area, Petclub has the large bag around $37.99 to $40 everyday which is a great value.


TOTW, Blue Buffalo, and Orijen are the only grain free brands i've found sold anywhere near me. We have a petsmart, and a cat store that sells Orijen dog food.
I bought TOTW at Tractor supply yesterday.


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## DogLuver

I'm sorry I would never usually get involved in threads like this (that have arguments) but I wanted to say, for the sake of those who are looking for helpful, resourceful, information, to be careful who's advice you take (sorry FeedingTime, but this is referring to you) some people just need to throw in their opinion to stir up arguments, but they are not very knowledgeable, not helpful at all, and for the most part, very rude? Which is not appreciated for those looking for helpful advice. I'm sure I'll get an awful response to this but, it has to be said for those who maybe took those comments seriously right?

If you are debating between Orijen, Acana, and TOTW, I'd like to state, first off, that I'm not an expert, but I have tried all 3 of these foods, in various flavors, and have done as much research in canine nutrition as I can. I liked all three brands. I have a Golden Retriever, and a Great Dane puppy. My Retriever has an iron stomach, and pretty much any food works for him, so I've kept him on Orijen (because he enjoys his food a LOT for a picky eater, he is EXTREMELY active, and this food helps him keep weight on nicely, his stools are firm, smell-less almost, and he has fewer of them a day than other kibbles, also his coat is SUPER shiny!). But my Great Dane, who is only 4mths old has a sensitive stomach (common in Danes). So I first had him on TOTW Sierra Mountain...and he did GREAT (all the same qualities as above). I switched to Orijen simply because of the price (TOTW is more than Orijen where I live...what the hell right?), and I had him on Orijen Large Breed Puppy (almost exactly the same as Orijen Adult)...and couldn't get firm poops on it, so I switched to Acana Pacifica, and his poops are instantly (after 1wk of feeding) better . 

So I think all 3 are great foods, but as you can see, for different dogs, for different reasons, and for different prices, I have 2 dogs on 2 different foods. Good luck! Good job doing your research


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## cast71

DogLuver said:


> and I had him on Orijen Large Breed Puppy (almost exactly the same as Orijen Adult)...and couldn't get firm poops on it, so I switched to Acana Pacifica, and his poops are instantly (after 1wk of feeding) better .


Just curious, but do you think you might have been over feeding Orijen? The guidelines on the bag are usually alot higher than what your dog should have.

I wouldn't take FeedingTime (aka practical feeder, saltydogs........) Seriously. He comes on here, at least once a year promoting corn. Usually to stir things up and has been banned a few times already.


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## DogLuver

Cast71, that was the response I got on the Great Dane forum I'm involved in. So I started to reduce the amount I was feeding him...and reducing more, and more. This did improve his stools minimally, but they still were not ideal (as I saw with TOTW, and ACANA they are TINY TINY little hard little poops, lol sorry for the graphics), and I was beginning to see his hip bones. I know it's ideal to keep a Great Dane puppy lean, to the point where you can see their last 2 ribs...but not to let them get so lean that you can see their hip bones protruding. So I concluded that I couldn't reduce the feeding amounts enough to get ideal stools without sacrificing his weight dropping too much. So I was assuming that the Orijen LBP was just too rich for his sensitive tummy (at his age now anyways). Acana has done wonderfully for him, and he is at the perfect weight. I suppose I could have stuck with Orijen and tried another flavor, but Acana is just a touch cheaper  and it works.

Thanks for the advice though Cast71, you are a very helpful person


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## cast71

I usually recommend feeding the least amount, while maintaining perfect body weight. You definitely do not want to see ribs, maybe the last one. You also don't want a boney hip. You should be able to see a slim waistline from above, not boney. In your case, you need to find the right balance between perfect stools and body weight. Make 1/8th cup adjustments until you achieve your goal. Believe it or not, 1/8th increments make a difference. And thanks for the compliment;0)


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## jess22

*Not a fan of TOTW*

Hello!

Just my small two cents over here, but I used to feed both my dogs TOTW, thinking it was a great food, until I found a small piece of metal (like a staple) cooked in the food. Luckily, I was paying attention when I poured the food out into my dog's bowl. The company didn't seem to take much notice to my concern and thought giving me my money back would make me happy. I swiftly switched over to Orijen after that situation. Orijen is ideal for big active dogs (b/c of the very high protein), but not for little dogs. I feed my cavalier Fromm now.


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## DaViking

Feedingtime said:


> ... snip ...
> 
> Canidae
> 
> ... snip ...


Nope! Not until they follow Annameat


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## tthrdg2

What food is better for weight gaining? Orijen or Acana


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## Georgiapeach

I feed my boxer and poodle TOTW Pacific Stream b/c it's decent and less expensive than the others mentioned. I'd love to feed Acana, but it's very expensive here. My allergy dog, a westie mix, eats Evo Herring and Salmon (potato and alfalfa meal free; also ridiculously expensive - fortunately, she only eats 1/2 c. daily). Budget does come into play for most people, including me!


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## dogdragoness

I see this person has been banned now but i have to say this because there could be others like him reading thru this thread:

I make my own dog food 'supplements' (i feed them with the kibble like one would pre made raw) i am not a scientist, not a canine nutritionalist... i am not nor to i pretend to be an expert on DOGS in general... but i DO know a fair amount about my OWN dogs to make food individually for THEM.

no one food is right for every dog, not even commercial ones. but there is a base standard that i think everyone should go by, just because your dog does 'well' on purina or whatever doesnt mean its good for them, which would you rather have... a dog who is 'doing well' or a dog who is THRIVING??? to me the choice is clear :/


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## kelii

I have tried both Orijen and TOTW. Orijen gave my dog very bad gas, mushy poo and he shed like crazy. As soon as I switched to TOTW all those symptoms cleared up. He's in great shape with tons of energy, and a shiny coat.


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## KittyKat

kelii said:


> I have tried both Orijen and TOTW. Orijen gave my dog very bad gas, mushy poo and he shed like crazy. As soon as I switched to TOTW all those symptoms cleared up. He's in great shape with tons of energy, and a shiny coat.


Sounds like you were feeding too much.


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## Losech

I had several problems with Orijen, not exactly sure what the deal was, but I generally was not very happy with it.

Soft, mushy, liquid, rock hard, normal, everything-under-the-sun types of poop. Completely unpredictable and inconsistent digestion, no parasites or other disorders (that the vet could find) that would cause that sort of thing. I have since chalked it up to a sensitive stomach, which the Shiba does have, or cooked chicken, but I'm not 100% on that one.
This happened over several bags, so it wasn't just one bad bag that caused it. My Shiba was NOT being fed too much, he was hardly eating any at all. Growing 4 month old Shiba pup should be eating more than 1/2 cup a day, don't ya think? He just wouldn't eat any more than that no matter what I did to it. Anyways, I switched my little bag-of-bones off Orijen and onto raw/homemade foods, which was a feat in upon itself, and he did quite swell after that. I have yet to try Orijen again, I am curious what the deal was, but it's a bit pricey in my area so I haven't gotten around to it yet. 
For a while after switching him to raw foods he wouldn't tolerate ANY kibbles or processed foods, but he can now, so I've been testing various brands out. Haven't tried him on Taste of the Wild yet, but my other two do really good on it. I'm not a fan of Diamond, but the food is high-quality for the price, widely available in my area, and the dogs love it. So, that's what they get when I can't find comparable brands for a similar price for the same size bag.


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## kelii

KittyKat said:


> Sounds like you were feeding too much.


He's 50 pounds and I was feeding 1.5 to 2 cups a day. Is that too much? I would love to try it again.


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## Georgiapeach

I'd try Acana Grain Free rather than Orijen (made by the same company). It's not as rich and better tolerated by a lot of dogs.


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## Shamrockmommy

I"ve never tried Orijen as it just costs too much for me. I did try 2 kids of TOTW and the dogs developed ear infections that did not go away until I changed foods for them. The second time I tried TOTW the raging ear infections returned. There is something in the foods that are obviously not wokring well for them.

Acana is a compromise between the two, made by the same company as Orijen and my girls do well on it when I rotate to it. 

And fwiw, I generally return to Fromm grain free foods as the girls look their best on it.


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## circuit-maker

kelii said:


> I have tried both Orijen and TOTW. Orijen gave my dog very bad gas, mushy poo and he shed like crazy. As soon as I switched to TOTW all those symptoms cleared up. He's in great shape with tons of energy, and a shiny coat.



These are "detox" symptoms. You dog was almost there! 
We purchased Acana for our Great Pyrenees (5yrs) and Black Lab/Aussie mix (1yr), as well as our lil ki'kat (5yrs.) as he was having problems with urinary stuff. Typical with male cats, right? 

The store owner we purchased from was soooo incredibly knowledgeable, I went ahead and took the plunge, dropped about 100$ for a 28lb bag of acana, and a 2.5lb bag of cat food. He threw in a free pint of raw goat milk because he's awesome. (This is Clark's Seed and Feed in Bellingham, WA. He ONLY sells Acana and Orijen foods in his store, with limited space, why stock crap? Go to petsmart for that stuff.) 

As soon as I opened the bag, everyone was going crazy! My cat wanted to eat the dog food, and the dogs were very excited. So far, my cat cleans out his bowl immediately. And I wasn't feeding him bad before--I would rotate from TOTW, Canidae, Natural Balance (grain free), etc. 

He got a new bag every time he ran out, so I guess he's never been picky. He loves this stuff. I'm hoping that the better balance of protein and all that will help to clear up his bladder issues, as it tend to be related to pH in the body for cats. Most foods have cranberry in them for this reason, which prevents the bacteria from "sticking" to the wall of the bladder. Better to create an inhospitable environment from the start! 


As for the dogs, it was recomended that for this FIRST week, use the following feeding guidelines: 

Dogs 1-7 get 1 cup per 35lbs.
Dogs 7+ get 1 cup per 45lbs.

Also, to completely rehydrate the food beforehand; I use warmed kettle water because it hydrates faster, plus its chilly outside. 

He says the dog will act crazy at first, like they want sooooo much more food and honestly, to feed my Great Pyrenees a little over one cup twice per day seems like half her normal amount! But, after that first week, when the animal is getting the BIO-AVAILABLE minerals and nutrients in the food, this tapers off. At first, their body is like 'omg! this is so good! I need these nutrients, give me more more more!!!' Natural reaction. 

If you are feeding too much, which is easy to do, they WILL have trouble with digestion. (The soft poos you mention.) You can tell if its too much by testing the temperature on their belly; if its super hot, that means they're eating too much. Their body is shedding the excess energy in the form of heat. 

There will be many detox symptoms, depending on how long your dog or cat has been on sub-par food. This happens with people too--go on a juice cleanse and you'll learn all about it! 

He said the dogs will start shedding out pretty bad in about a week--this is because the body is detoxing through the fur, through any way it can. Its getting rid of stuff! New, healthier fur is replacing these shedding hairs. You say your dog was shedding really bad as though this were a negative! The dog was actually becoming healthier right in front of you.


The reduced feeding of the first week takes into account the detoxing. It was suggested that if the dog really is losing too much weight, to increase by only a few kibbles each feeding. 


Overall, only one day in, I'm SUPER pleased with this change. Yes, I know all about budgets. I'm living on about 1k a month, so tell me all about it 
However, when I compared cost per lb., it was pretty much the same. I'd rather my animals live as long and happily as possible--and I do that through feeding them as well as I possibly can.



Its worth doing a little research about bioavailable nutrients, especially minerals. If you think you have a good petfood, just look at the ingredients. See *ferrous sulfate?* Yeah, that's a form of iron that is completely indigestible, in humans or dogs OR cats. 
The reason this food is so much more expensive is because they go beyond the very basic legal requirements and use nutrients that can be used by your dog, rather than just filling in an 'ingredients' list. 

In addition, because it is processed in Canada, there are much stricter requirements for pet food processing. And they don't call it their food plant, its a _pet food kitchen._


So, to those that had negative experiences, my guess is that you were feeding too MUCH food! Changing flavors helps too, as your dog may have a sensitivity to chicken or something like that. My Pyrenees has trouble with chicken. 

Good luck guys; if you price it out per lb., you'll find its not even more expensive. That's why I went for it.


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## circuit-maker

tthrdg2 said:


> What food is better for weight gaining? Orijen or Acana


They're almost exactly the same; Orijen has a little more protein and variety of proteins. I put the dogs on Acana, and the cat gets Orijen. Just experiment; the company offers a free bag after 12 bags; they don't differentiate between the two to get this bonus bag, either. 

Be sure to REHYDRATE this kibble before feeding. The kibbles are very nutrient-dense and dry, obviously, so completely rehydrate before feeding so they don't get dehydrated from digesting it. I wonder if this is why some people got what they described as "small, hard poop" from their dogs, 'cause they're feeding the kibble DRY--very hard on their system!


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## circuit-maker

1/2 cup sounds more than fine! This stuff is super concentrated. Were you rehydrating the food?

Also, you may be onto something about the chicken--my Pyrenees will get sneezing fits if I feed her chicken-based food for a few days in a row. Its known that some dogs have trouble with this protein source. (In fact, I don't think anyone should really eat chicken...)

Srsly rehydrate the kibble; its just rehydrating in their system, pulling tons of water out of them!


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## circuit-maker

As for the dogs, it was recomended that for this FIRST week, use the following feeding guidelines: 

Dogs 1-7 get 1 cup per 35lbs.
Dogs 7+ get 1 cup per 45lbs.

Also, to completely rehydrate the food beforehand. Were you doing this? 

At 50 lbs., if he's 1-7, that'd put him at about 1 and 1/3 cup, ish. Sounds like you were feeding too much. 

This stuff is so rich, just a few kibbles difference is actually a LOT of energy in terms of food calories (which is a measure of heat.)


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## cuddles

TOTW and Orijen are both excellent choices. I've had great success with Orijen in the past. But of course every dog is different and you will get different options from different people.


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