# raw feeding and vitamin deficiency??



## Rvent (Apr 15, 2012)

how do I know if my dogs are getting all the vitamins and minerals that they need, they have been on raw for a few months now, variety is not a big part of the diet yet and frankly there are not a lot of choices available. I read an article about dogs fed mostly chicken can have a lot of vitamin and mineral deficiencies.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Variety is always good - if they've been on raw for a few months they can start getting more proteins. What do you have available? Alot of people feed the basics like turkey, chicken, pork, and beef. It's mostly what I feed - all their boneless is beef and pork heart, practically.

The main thing is the meat, bones, and organs. If you could get some red meat in there it would be very helpful and if you can find as many parts of the animal as you can that would be even more helpful.

So what are you feeding now?


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## ciaBrysh (Dec 16, 2011)

Rvent said:


> how do I know if my dogs are getting all the vitamins and minerals that they need, they have been on raw for a few months now, variety is not a big part of the diet yet and frankly there are not a lot of choices available. I read an article about dogs fed mostly chicken can have a lot of vitamin and mineral deficiencies.


Variety is always the way to go. 
If I remember correctly you are located in CT right?
I take the ferry from Long Island to CT to get to my supplier and I still end up saving a crap load of money (even including ferry fares) If you want the info for those suppliers just PM me and I'll get it for you =)


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## Chocx2 (Nov 16, 2009)

Even if you just have a grocery store you can get a pretty complete diet. Just add the necks, hearts, kidney, to the meals. Also use diversity all meat has different stuff, proteins, fats, amino acids to bring to the table. So just don't get stuck on one meat and get lazy keep looking for new stuff. Thats my advice, more diversity healthy pet and a happy one. 

PS always check the salt added, less is better.


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## twoisplenty (Nov 12, 2008)

If variety is hard for you, then I would supplement with Alfalfa and Kelp powder, They have all the vitamins and minerals your dog requires


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## Chocx2 (Nov 16, 2009)

I have a friend, she is a vet, she was telling me that a small breed dog was brought in. She had a cast on one of her legs, she had put on previously, but she hadn't put 2 and 2 together until the owner advised her that she was only feeding chicken, breast a raw diet. 

The poor baby had another broken bone and had to be repaired with surgery. She told me, see what happens to dogs on raw. I explained to her that it sounded like the dog had been fed incorrectly " no bone, organ, or diversity, so that is what might happen if a proper diet is not given.

That dog was never given any bone or organ meat or even any other meat, only chicken breast.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Chocx2 said:


> I have a friend, she is a vet, she was telling me that a small breed dog was brought in. She had a cast on one of her legs, she had put on previously, but she hadn't put 2 and 2 together until the owner advised her that she was only feeding chicken, breast a raw diet.
> 
> The poor baby had another broken bone and had to be repaired with surgery. She told me, see what happens to dogs on raw. I explained to her that it sounded like the dog had been fed incorrectly " no bone, organ, or diversity, so that is what might happen if a proper diet is not given.
> 
> That dog was never given any bone or organ meat or even any other meat, only chicken breast.


That is what scares people off of feeding raw. It is easy, but not THAT easy.

Honestly, the calcium/phosphorus ratio is what I worry about most. I always think they are getting too much phosphorus, especially Snorkels who eat 95% rich meats and has trouble with constipation when she eats bone. I am continually adjusting her diet trying to fix that.

BUT, I do believe if you get bloodwork done periodically you can make sure everything is going along ok. I THINK (could be wrong) bloodwork will also show a calcium deficiency.


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## Chocx2 (Nov 16, 2009)

Yes my friend, a vet, was making an attempt to turn me off of raw, but I explained to her if its done improperly and no bone is given then that kinda stuff could happen. What I forgot to say is the small dog was a puppy so it needed lots of mix and bone, 

I hope that no one gets turned off by what I was saying, I didn't. That's what was said to me and I knew differently, how to feed. I guess I was trying to say or the moral of the story is to feed diversity.


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## Rvent (Apr 15, 2012)

I feed mostly chicken, but I give them pork (boneless) beef heart, goat heart, chicken gizzards, smelts, and boneless beef when its cheap enough.... for organs i have chicken,goat and beef livers..havn't found much for kidneys...also some canned salmn or mackeral on occassion


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

I don't think you are doing so bad. You could look for specials in the meat section or see if you can find a local co-op or meat supplier. I found an Asian market that has stuff I can't find anywhere else, and it's not horribly expensive. I get frozen sardines there and last time I went they had a boatload of pork spleen so I bought it all.

Alot of folks feed beef heart because it's more nutritious than other cuts of beef and it's fairly cheap. It's really gotten to be my staple food for the dogs. They get alot of it. I can normally get it cheaper than pork.


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## bridget246 (Oct 26, 2011)

Chocx2 said:


> Yes my friend, a vet, was making an attempt to turn me off of raw, but I explained to her if its done improperly and no bone is given then that kinda stuff could happen. What I forgot to say is the small dog was a puppy so it needed lots of mix and bone,
> 
> I hope that no one gets turned off by what I was saying, I didn't. That's what was said to me and I knew differently, how to feed. I guess I was trying to say or the moral of the story is to feed diversity.


Every vet story I've been told has all involved people doing it wrong. I just tried to do a search on the raw diet vet visits and found the opposite of what I was looking for. Those poor against raw vets have to grasp for straws to try to build any defense at all against the raw diet. 

After doing that research I'm worried. Popularity has really picked up since the last big recall. This means the price of meat is going to go up and vets will have to charge more money for yearly visits to make up for all the money they lost from kibble free pets that use to be their best customers.


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

It sounds like you are feeding a nice variety and nice rich meats also. I wouldn't be worried at all. Once in a while I throw in something expensive or hard to get for variety but it is rare - one of my collie adores rabbit but 1 rabbit is a meal so that is not something I can afford for all seven dogs and the others don't love it like her. I defy a human to thrice on a diet of chicken breast which is also probably the least nutrient cut of chicken possible. People who don't research make a mess of a pretty simple feeding plan. I am glad you are feeding a healthy variety.


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## Rvent (Apr 15, 2012)

thanks, I am glad I am giving them enough variety, I do seem to have a problem knowing how much bone per meal is to much, or if I should feed a bone in meal IE (chicken leg or quarter) every meal, only one meal a day or every other day. so many Nubi questions I know. Is it also bad to give them a multi vitamin especially my old ones?


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## KittyKat (Feb 11, 2011)

Rvent said:


> thanks, I am glad I am giving them enough variety, I do seem to have a problem knowing how much bone per meal is to much, or if I should feed a bone in meal IE (chicken leg or quarter) every meal, only one meal a day or every other day. so many Nubi questions I know. Is it also bad to give them a multi vitamin especially my old ones?


I wouldn't give them your old multi vitamins. They will get a ton of vitamins from the organs they get. 

For bone, it depends a lot on the dog. One of my dogs is prone to cannon butt if she doesn't get bone in pretty much every meal (she still gets a lot of chicken backs), the other dog is okay without bone in every meal (but still needs it every other meal at least). Some dogs need a lot less bone. The old adage is 80% meat, 10% bone 10% organ, but again, varies with the dog. 

If they are having issues pooping, too much bone, if they get cannon butt, too little.


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## Rvent (Apr 15, 2012)

KittyKat said:


> I wouldn't give them your old multi vitamins. They will get a ton of vitamins from the organs they get.
> 
> For bone, it depends a lot on the dog. One of my dogs is prone to cannon butt if she doesn't get bone in pretty much every meal (she still gets a lot of chicken backs), the other dog is okay without bone in every meal (but still needs it every other meal at least). Some dogs need a lot less bone. The old adage is 80% meat, 10% bone 10% organ, but again, varies with the dog.
> 
> If they are having issues pooping, too much bone, if they get cannon butt, too little.


LOL...not my old vitamins, vitamins for my old dogs (those old ones) dog multi-vitamins.


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

Most vitamins just pass through the body unless they are very specific. My collies seem to need more bone than my shelties. My collies cannot skip a meal without bone after more than two years of raw but my shelties can do every other meal. I just monitor their stools and dry and dusty rates more meat and loose or runny more bone. You will get the hang of it. Don't worry - they are getting the best food out there.


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## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

Agree- just go by poop. Nothing has to be exact, the body is very resilient. Kibbles vary a lot in nutrient density, too. :smile:


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## Neeko (Aug 11, 2010)

xellil said:


> That is what scares people off of feeding raw. It is easy, but not THAT easy.
> 
> Honestly, the calcium/phosphorus ratio is what I worry about most. I always think they are getting too much phosphorus, especially Snorkels who eat 95% rich meats and has trouble with constipation when she eats bone. I am continually adjusting her diet trying to fix that.
> 
> BUT, I do believe if you get bloodwork done periodically you can make sure everything is going along ok. I THINK (could be wrong) bloodwork will also show a calcium deficiency.


I THINK the hypocalcemia has to be pretty profound, and from an intrinsic cause, such as a parathyroid problem to show up in bloodwork. The body will pull calcium from the bones if not enough is being consumed. Hence the poor dog with broken bones :-(


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Neeko said:


> I THINK the hypocalcemia has to be pretty profound, and from an intrinsic cause, such as a parathyroid problem to show up in bloodwork. The body will pull calcium from the bones if not enough is being consumed. Hence the poor dog with broken bones :-(


That's interesting - it's the one thing I worry about because I have a dog who is horribly constipated all the time and of course bones make it worse. So I use crushed eggshells (who knows how much gets absorbed) and ground bone, as well as some real bones, to try and keep her around ten percent without clogging her up completely. It's a constant battle but I don't want her to get calcium deficient. OR overloaded on phosphorus.


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## kimouette (May 2, 2012)

I am re-opening this thread because I am also concerned with vitamins and minerals my dog is about to be fed with.
I have spent many hours gathering the information about the nutritional analysis of the different menus I can afford to feed my dog with.

I have an Excel sheet showing the minimum requirements from the AAFCO in the first column, my biggest dog's minimum requirement (he weight 47 kilos which means 47 times the minimum requirement of the first column) and then the average nutritional analysis of the different meats I bought.

Here's the link : https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AumMJBQ_r05GdERPQ0FZWFNlVmZpOHBkVjk5N3RIYlE

What really concerns me is :
- CHOLINE (I cant even get close to half the minimum requirement and my dog already has high hepatic blood levels and this nutrient is specifically known to improve liver diseases!)
- Magnesium
- Copper
- Manganese
- Zinc

Just out of curiosity I have compared different organ meats and muscle meats and there's no way i can get close to the minimum values of all the above. Of course I dont mind not feeding the mimimum requirement for couple of days or even weeks, but not finding any source of these minerals I could give to my dog (unless I fed him like 3 complete meals of broccoli, mussels, or something! Which of course doesn't make any sens) I dont feel reassured!

Anyone else having this concern found a solution?


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## Chocx2 (Nov 16, 2009)

I don't worry about numbers, wild animals are healthy on what they eat, humans eat McDonalds and survive. lol I'm sure our requirements are not in McDonalds. 

I go by what I see, my animals have improved health wise ten fold since I switched them to raw and I was feeding them like the best kibble and still added supplements. I don't add vitamins now, I think they get everything they need in there food.

My dogs are very active and very healthy.


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## RedneckCowgirl (Oct 28, 2011)

Chocx2 said:


> I go by what I see, my animals have improved health wise ten fold since I switched them to raw and I was feeding them like the best kibble and still added supplements. I don't add vitamins now, I think they get everything they need in there food.
> 
> My dogs are very active and very healthy.
> 
> View attachment 8029


This. Totally agree. I don't worry about numbers. I feed what I can get cheap/whatever I pull out to defrost and my dogs are doing the best they ever have!


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## kimouette (May 2, 2012)

You guys are probably right, but I forgot to mention that my dogs have weight to lose and that Maestro, my big Bernese Mountain dog, has Wobbler syndrom and daily receives corticosteroid to manage his pain. That damn medicine has already caused problem : it's harder for him to lose weight since Dexamethasone and Gabapentin make him hungrier and it is also affecting his liver. Eversince he's been eating Karnivor (commercial raw patties) he's been doing much better and we did manage to make him lose couple of pounds, but then if I'm about to replace that food with something home made, I was hoping to have something balanced... something I could show to my vet and say : why would you want me to feed him with kibbles? Look at this nutritional analysis it's much better than any of your Royal Canin scrap and all values meet the AAFCO minimal requirements!"

With 4 minerals under the minimum and choline that is not even 30% of what other dogs receive, I cant say that it looks perfect. Like I said, I'm not trying to feed my dog a perfect DAILY menu, but knowing that I haven't found a single meat or veggie that would allow my dog to get the minimum choline or manganese requirement, doesn't make me confident at all.

It might sound exagerated, but I dont want anyone to convince me that vitamins and minerals are not important because raw food is good (or better than scrap), I want to KNOW exactly what I am doing and why I am doing it!


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

Rvent said:


> how do I know if my dogs are getting all the vitamins and minerals that they need, they have been on raw for a few months now, variety is not a big part of the diet yet and frankly there are not a lot of choices available. I read an article about dogs fed mostly chicken can have a lot of vitamin and mineral deficiencies.


 Thats why variety is important, like others have said, as well as organs. As long as you feed variety raw meat bones and organs supply everything a dog needs. If YOU only ate one thing all the time you would be deficient too.


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## Roo (Oct 17, 2010)

> You guys are probably right, but I forgot to mention that my dogs have weight to lose and that Maestro, my big Bernese Mountain dog, has Wobbler syndrom and daily receives corticosteroid to manage his pain. That damn medicine has already caused problem : it's harder for him to lose weight since Dexamethasone and Gabapentin make him hungrier and it is also affecting his liver. Eversince he's been eating Karnivor (commercial raw patties) he's been doing much better and we did manage to make him lose couple of pounds, but then if I'm about to replace that food with something home made, I was hoping to have something balanced... something I could show to my vet and say : why would you want me to feed him with kibbles? Look at this nutritional analysis it's much better than any of your Royal Canin scrap and all values meet the AAFCO minimal requirements!"
> 
> With 4 minerals under the minimum and choline that is not even 30% of what other dogs receive, I cant say that it looks perfect. Like I said, I'm not trying to feed my dog a perfect DAILY menu, but knowing that I haven't found a single meat or veggie that would allow my dog to get the minimum choline or manganese requirement, doesn't make me confident at all.
> 
> It might sound exagerated, but I dont want anyone to convince me that vitamins and minerals are not important because raw food is good (or better than scrap), I want to KNOW exactly what I am doing and why I am doing it!


I understand, I'm some what concerned on the nutrient numbers too, I know after I've fed raw for a couple more years I'll probably be less concerned. The numbers don't have to be exact, just somewhat close, as no one really knows the exact numbers and the individual dog will vary some on digestibility of the nutrients. I actually prefer to use the 2006 NRC numbers as a guideline instead of AFFCO's. I believe AFFCO numbers (originally based off of older NRC numbers) are now based off of chemical nutritional analysis, which I don't think takes into consideration source and quality (bio-availability) of the nutrients, as the NRC numbers do counting on more pure forms of ingredients and not the manufacturing process of commercial pet foods. 

Since AFFCO bases it's numbers on chemical analysis and short small feeding trials, it's still possible for the individual dog to show up with nutritional deficiencies even when fed an AFFCO approved food. Professionals in the industry seem to agree as Dr. David Dzanis, FDA Center for Veterinary Medicine stated _"The formulation method does not account for palatability or availability of nutrients. Yet a feeding trial can miss some chronic deficiencies or toxicities." _and Dr. Quinton Rogers, DVM, PhD, an AAFCO panel expert, stated_ "Although the AAFCO profiles are better than nothing, they provide false securities. I don't know of any studies showing their adequacies and inadequacies." _Dr. Rogers also stated that some of the foods which pass AAFCO feeding trials are actually inadequate for long term nutrition, but there is no way of knowing which foods these are under present regulations. AFFCO doesn't know everything, for example, according to their 2003 official publication (pg 129), they based their requirements of copper, iron, and zinc in dogs off of tolerance levels in swine.

Another thing to consider with commercial dry foods is the longer shelf life and if some of the nutrients are lost from the time the dog food is made to the time you purchase it and bring it home to feed. It's been stated that vitamin C and E decrease by 30% over the course of 6 months in stored dry food (Small Animal Clinical Nutrition 2000), I know dogs make their own vitamin C so that may not be as much of a concern. Also I read that fish oil (Omega 3) can be sensitive to oxidation with heat or light, so it may not survive well in the dry foods.

If you're interested in the 2006 NRC numbers, there is a spread sheet. . .
http://dogfoodchat.com/forum/raw-feeding/13660-custom-raw-feeding-nutrient-guide.html

The Adventures of Conker the Shiba Inu: Using Nutritiondata.com to balance home-made dog food

You can use nutrition data to add in your diet and get a sense of what it looks like all together. 
Nutrition facts, calories in food, labels, nutritional information and analysis – NutritionData.com

When trying to "balance" things out remember that things don't have to be exact, there are ratio's like Cal/Phos, Iron/Copper/Zinc, etc., double check any conversions (RA to IU, g to mg, etc.), be mindful that water soluble and fat soluble vitamins will make a difference with excess, and that some minerals interact with others as binders etc,.

From looking at the nutrient numbers in PMR, I can tell you that the more variety in meats and organs in the diet does seem to adjust the numbers more closely to the NRC guidelines. If you're really really low on certain nutrients, look for food sources high in them that you might be able to supplement into the diet, or you can just use supplements, but I think food sources would be better, and probably less chance of over supplementation than with supplements. Beef and Eggs can be good sources of Choline, Halibut is a good source of Magnesium, Manganese can be supplemented with a little Kelp, Tripe, and Beef/Venison Meat can be good sources of Zinc, Copper can be found fairly high in different sources of animal livers (especially calf liver).

For the affects of the medications on the liver, you may want to make sure your organs/meats are as high a quality as you can afford, and giving milk thistle to help support the liver might be helpful, you could ask Liz on this forum about other herbs/homeopathic methods that could possibly help support his Liver function, she's very knowledgeable, with any info she may be able to offer you, you could double check with your vet on any possible interactions with the meds, or if you have a holistic vet locally they may be able to give you more info on herbs etc. that you could try.


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## kimouette (May 2, 2012)

Roo thank you sooooo much for all these resources!
I finally made it! I mean I found everything that was lacking my previous menus!

Just in case anyone is wondering, here's the solution I found :
- CHOLINE : 56g of beef kidney = 288mg !! Second option (or I can use both) 56g of beef liver = 186mg
- Magnesium : 345g of green tripe = 138mg 
- Copper : 56g of beef liver = 5.4g
- Manganese : 1 tblspoon of ground ginger (the spice) = 1.4mg
- Zinc : 300g of ground beef (95% lean) = 15.3mg 

**** Notice that I consider having reach the minimum requirements based on the 2006 NRC numbers for all 5 minerals, except for copper that I can reach with both the NRC and the AAFCO numbers. 

Here are the differences for my 96 pound dog :
- CHOLINE : AAFCO = 1175 , NRC = 712
- Magnesium : AAFCO = 385 , NRC = 251
- Copper : AAFCO = 2.82, NRC = 2.51
- Manganese : AAFCO = 4.7, NRC = 2.1 (huge difference here!)
- Zinc : AAFCO = 33.84, NRC = 25.13


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

Wolves and other wild dogs aren't worried about if the AAFCO would approve of each elk or rabbit they eat. Heck, like I have said before the AAFCO approves Ol'Roy. The AAFCO is something us humans came up with. It wasn't around thousands of years ago when mother nature developed carnivores. The more you worry about numbers and such, the harder you make it and the more you stress yourself. Just feed as much variety as you can along with organs and you will be fine. When fed raw they supply all a dog needs. Don't YOU eat a variety of foods yourself? Feed your dog the same way. With variety. Variety over time is how raw all balances out.


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## KittyKat (Feb 11, 2011)

naturalfeddogs said:


> Wolves and other wild dogs aren't worried about if the AAFCO would approve of each elk or rabbit they eat. Heck, like I have said before the AAFCO approves Ol'Roy. The AAFCO is something us humans came up with. It wasn't around thousands of years ago when mother nature developed carnivores. The more you worry about numbers and such, the harder you make it and the more you stress yourself. Just feed as much variety as you can along with organs and you will be fine. When fed raw they supply all a dog needs. Don't YOU eat a variety of foods yourself? Feed your dog the same way. With variety. Variety over time is how raw all balances out.


Very much this. Animals don't go around thinking "I ate a beaver yesterday.... and I see a beaver right there.... buuuut I think i need a rabbit for the right balance." - we just way over-complicate things by running numbers and worrying about bone content, vitamin content, mineral content. 

Wolves in one country will have a different diet than those in another. For example wolves in Ukraine vs Belarus. One side has smaller wolves that feed on beavers and other smaller game - they are smaller than their neighbors who feed on some bigger game.


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## kimouette (May 2, 2012)

Does it always have to come down to this? Everytime someone asks a specific question about nutrients, they always get an answer like "dont worry in the wild they would be perfect so just offer variety and it's gonna be perfectly balanced". I know most people don't care about the details and the real analysis behind their dog's nutrition, and I respect their choice, but what I didn't know, is that these people would want to shut me up! 

I dont know how you guys went from commercial kibble customers to raw healthy food buyers, but for me, it was exactly by doing what I am trying to do here : understanding in details what is what and what is lacking. So please let us speak when we have questions about a specific nutrient, in other words, let us question and receive answers without letting us know just how worthless you think it is.


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## Kayota (Jul 21, 2012)

For me I thought about it. I thought: There is potato in this grain free food.

Would a dog or wolf eat potatoes in the wild?

No.

Would a dog or wolf eat little crunchy perfect bits in the wild?

No.

Is kibble the best I can do?

No.

Now obviously my dog is not in the wild, but her enjoyment, health, and state of mind were all things I considered. I think since I can't walk her daily, that feeding raw also at least gives her more mental stimulation than she would get without. To be honest with you I don't know exactly what nutrients are in my raw food... If she ever has issues on it I may look more deeply, though. I feed variety and that's about all it requires.


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## RedneckCowgirl (Oct 28, 2011)

kimouette said:


> Does it always have to come down to this? Everytime someone asks a specific question about nutrients, they always get an answer like "dont worry in the wild they would be perfect so just offer variety and it's gonna be perfectly balanced". I know most people don't care about the details and the real analysis behind their dog's nutrition, and I respect their choice, but what I didn't know, is that these people would want to shut me up!
> 
> I dont know how you guys went from commercial kibble customers to raw healthy food buyers, but for me, it was exactly by doing what I am trying to do here : understanding in details what is what and what is lacking. So please let us speak when we have questions about a specific nutrient, in other words, let us question and receive answers without letting us know just how worthless you think it is.


I don't think anyone here is trying to shut you up, just let you know (and any other people who might browse this thread, members or not) that it doesn't have to be that in depth. It doesn't have to be complicated, just feed variety and you will be a-ok. I'm sure the point wasn't to make you feel like your question was worthless. A lot of new raw feeders think that its this big, complicated thing (which it can be if you want it to be/make it) but it doesn't have to be.


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## kimouette (May 2, 2012)

> It doesn't have to be complicated


Of course it doesn't have to be complicated. But if some of us have dogs with health issues, or very old dogs that are starting to show liver, kidney, bones, weight, or eye disease (I wont name them all!) and if we know that some vitamins or minerals are known to prevent or cure some of these diseases, why not look into it? I'm not asking anyone to do the work for me, I'm the one who's "losing many hours" doing these researches, but if I'm willing to do it, have some interest in doing it, and want to share or ask for information... why not here? I just thought Dogfoodchat.com SOUNDED like the right place for that!


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## RedneckCowgirl (Oct 28, 2011)

kimouette said:


> I just thought Dogfoodchat.com SOUNDED like the right place for that!


It is. However, it also is public. Someone who is just curious could do a google search, find a link to this thread and if no one had stated that it is only as complicated as you make it, and honestly, the results will probably be the same, or close at the very least, then they might think its too hard and stick to whatever they are feeding. Your questions weren't blown off, they were answered. So the thread went a little off topic, is that any reason to get upset?

ETA:
FWIW, I did learn quite a bit from this thread


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

kimouette said:


> Does it always have to come down to this? Everytime someone asks a specific question about nutrients, they always get an answer like "dont worry in the wild they would be perfect so just offer variety and it's gonna be perfectly balanced". I know most people don't care about the details and the real analysis behind their dog's nutrition, and I respect their choice, but what I didn't know, is that these people would want to shut me up!
> 
> I dont know how you guys went from commercial kibble customers to raw healthy food buyers, but for me, it was exactly by doing what I am trying to do here : understanding in details what is what and what is lacking. So please let us speak when we have questions about a specific nutrient, in other words, let us question and receive answers without letting us know just how worthless you think it is.


Look in the raw feeding stickys. Theres a nutrient list posted there that may be what you are looking for.

It's really not that big of a deal. Like we have said before, raw is about feeding variety. As long as you do that you are going to get all the minerals/vitamens you are worried about. Variety over time=balance.


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