# Outside puppy housing?



## Cassi_rose (Dec 16, 2012)

I'm planning on adopting a puppy this summer and I have a few questions about its outside housing. My grandpa does not like dogs in the house and we live way out in the country a few miles out of town. So my question is how can I keep my puppy safe/from running off without having to fence in a section of the yard. I really don't want to fence in the yard because of price and also because when the pup is old enough its going to be running all over the property. I will give it a collar with identification tags. I don't want to keep it in a kennel. Should I just attach the pup to a dog cord at night and if were going out somewhere?


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

I would try to talk your grandpa into letting you keep it as an inside dog. The situation doesn't sound to safe for a dog outside. Having a puppy/dog is a responsibility just like a child.


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## Cassi_rose (Dec 16, 2012)

He also has some sheds. Is there a chance it could stay there for the nights? I would be outside almost 24/7


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

I wouldn't be able to sleep at night knowing all dog has for shelter is a shed. No way.


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

If this pup's only options are running loose, being tied up, or sleeping in a shed then I beg you to re think getting a puppy at all as that is noway for a puppy to grow up.


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

Not to mention, that no reputable rescue/breeder is going to adopt out/sell to someone who will keep the dog outside, with shelter as a shed, no fence and tied up on occasion. You should really work on proving to your grandpa that you will take responsibility for housetraining, teaching manners, feeding etc.... to be able to let it live in the house. Or like Linsey said, just don't get a puppy right now.


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## Kat (Jul 12, 2011)

I agree with the others, that is no way for a puppy/dog to be living. And like naturalfeddogs said, no good breeder or shelter would adopt out a pup if they knew the place the puppy would be kept. Dogs need to be with their people, not kept outside on a chain or locked in a shed. 

Please, if you can not convince your grandpa of letting the dog live indoors, wait until your living situation changes to allow the dog indoors. Imagine how scary it is for a puppy to leave its litter mates, only to be locked outside in a dark scary shed. You would never gain that pups trust.


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

Sounds like you should get a cat instead


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## bett (Mar 15, 2012)

and maybe, an indoor cat.


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## xchairity_casex (Oct 8, 2011)

could i ask WHY youd want a dog at all then? seeing as how youd only be spending at best a few hours a day with it then go inside to do your own thing? having a puppy or a dog is not a "when i feel like it" thing, you dont jsut say "okay, im done playing with you, im going in the house now bye!"
thats not at all fair.


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## creek817 (Feb 18, 2012)

I always was of the mindset of all of you. Here in Australia, however, many, many dogs live outside. I still don't really AGREE with it, and I definitely don't like it, but, it is an option for some people I guess. Dobby lived outside for about 6 months before I convinced Graham to let him in the house. My stepdaughter's JRT still lives outside.

That being said, I definitely wouldn't do that to a puppy. If you have no other option than for your dog to live outside, I would suggest looking at an adult dog. Not that they should get any less attention, but they probably could handle a bit less. I would definitely try to fence in part of the yard though, rather than tying the dog up or keeping it in a shed. You said something in your other thread about moving soon - are you moving to your grandfather's house, or away from it? If you are moving away, why not wait until after you move to get a puppy? 

I completely understand wanting a puppy, or a dog. But try to think about the welfare of the dog, not just what you want. If you adopt a dog, please don't get a dog that has lived in the house before - it will feel like it's done something wrong and is being punished.

I think dogs can have an okay life living outside, and if done properly, it's certainly better than some other situations. But, personally, I want my dog with me, all the time. I hate leaving him home to go to the grocery store! He actually comes with me most of the time, except in summer when it's too hot to leave him in the car. =) Most people on this forum consider their dogs to be like children, and can't imagine them living outside.


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## Cassi_rose (Dec 16, 2012)

Thanks for giving a non defensive answer. Ive decided to adopt an adult dog now so there will be no problem with the pups safety


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## Cassi_rose (Dec 16, 2012)

Ive decided to adopt an adult dog now. I should have thought more of the process. I was just very excited about having a new friend that I got ahead of myself therefore I am sorry.


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## Cassi_rose (Dec 16, 2012)

Id like to let you know as well that I have always had outdoor cats. I have three now that are completely healthy. All cats don't need to be hidden from every little danger. They can fend for themselves just fine in the outside world.


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## Cassi_rose (Dec 16, 2012)

Sorry if any of my comments seemed rude but I don't understand why people are so against having their dogs be outside dogs. I've known plenty of people that keep their dogs outside 24/7 and they do just fine. Sure dogs are one of the greatest creatures on earth but they don't need to be treated like babies. They can easily fend for themselves. Before I moved to Missouri the two dogs I had were outside all the time and we lived in the country. We would let them run all over our 24 acres. We would let them inside if it was really cold because they don't have very much fur. I do plan on getting an adult dog now and a big one at that. There isnt any predators to worry about for ex. cougars. But if the weather gets bad I will see if I can get my G-pa to let the dog stay inside. I will be making a really nice dog house for them as well. Also a collar with identification will be given as well.


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

To most of us here, our dogs are our family and we would prefer them to not have to "fend for themselves". If you are going to adopt, you still have to find someone who will adopt a dog to you who will be outside. They are strict for a reason and I think that is going to be a hurdle.


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## kevin bradley (Aug 9, 2009)

Cassi, you cannot predict what a Dog will do... Seriously, I need to hear more of this situation. Do you live near a road? You can't possibly know that the Dog won't get to a road. 

I won't even address keeping the Dog on a chain. Its a horrid way for a Dog to live and you break down their ability to be Dogs.

I don't LOVE a Dog living outside. They become lawn ornaments and people move onto other pursuits and they get forgotten. I've seen it 1000 times and it becomes ALL too similar. The cute puppy grows up and he spends his days/years living in dirt and pacing on a stupid chain. There are other concerns too... an outside Dog becomes more susceptible to heartworm I believe(someone verify please). Also, some Dogs are REALLY ill suited to be outside... many of the Terriers especially(Pits come to mind) have really short hair and just don't belong in really cold weather 24/7.

You've received some good opinions out here. I'm sure it hurts to hear criticism... human nature is to be defensive when we hear things we don't want to hear. Take a few minutes, cool off and realize that what we've told you is the moral and correct advice. 

If you DO move forward with getting a Dog, please, please don't chain them up. Make sure they have a sizable fenced in area to run around. And you stay committed to giving them the life they deserve. You sound like a decent person... do the right thing.


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

bett said:


> and maybe, an indoor cat.


Outside/inside cats on a large property are very common and perfectly okay. Mine is indoor/outdoor and very happy.

He doesn't fend for himself but he does enjoy being a cat outside when he chooses to.

Personally I feel that having an indoor only cat is cruel.


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## Herzo (Feb 5, 2011)

Now I'm not trying to give you hell here, so bare with me. First of all I live in Wyoming so I know of many dogs that live outside. My nephew has one that does as my sister will not let a dog live in her house. He built a very nice dog house and has a heat pad for her, she is a border collie. However he is outside most of the day feeding livestock and the dog is with him.

I know you said you would be out allot what will you be doing outside all the time? Do you have livestock to feed? And I know on 24 acres that will not take all day. I live on 30 and have 2 horses and it takes me about 10 minutes to feed twice a day.

Also it takes my pitbull about 2 minutes to run over to the neighbors so you will still have to have a fenced yard or have to chain your dog up which I am not a fan of for longer than an hour or two.

Also you will have to get a long haired dog so that is going to be a grooming issue. But that may not be problem for you just something you will have to think about.

I will tell you I always have a problem when people say I have this property so it will have all this space to run. Like I said we have 30 acres but people on both sides so that's not much space at least to me. I can walk up the lain and go across the road and take my dogs for a walk and I am in the hills with a pastier of more than 500 acres. And if I go to the north or east I have many more that are that big or bigger. But I go out there a mile and a half and get on top of the hill and I can still see houses here and there, it is very open out here. I have run into dogs out there several times and I have also found my neighbors sheep killed by dogs.

What I am telling you is your dog has to be controlled for it's own sake. Please be responsible. I am glad you are trying to think this out before you get one, that does show thinking on your part. What I'm trying to tell you is these people who I have narrowed down to where I have seen the way the dogs are going, all think they can have a dog run lose because they have 30 or 40 acres. Well I have run into there dogs miles from there house and there are sheep in there.

They may find there dogs dead some day. I know a few that have.


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## kevin bradley (Aug 9, 2009)

....so many other issues. Coyotes are getting more and more prevalent. They are also gang hunters that use pretty cunning tactics to lure prey back to the pack where they gang up on them.

No way I would allow my beloved Dogs to face something like that. No way.


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## Boxers&Pom's Mom (Jan 17, 2011)

Sorry, but you should not be getting a dog. A dog is like a child. At least, it is the way I see my dogs. How you will be able to sleep knowing that you dog is cold or hot or wet if rain. Don't do to a dog what you will not do to a child.


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## InkedMarie (Sep 9, 2011)

There are very few people who have a correct set up for outside dogs and i can tell you're not one of them.


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## Cassi_rose (Dec 16, 2012)

Well funny story is I used to live in a little town across from my grandpa out in the country. Then we moved to Missouri. Now im moving back to that little town and living with my grandpa. I honestly do not know how many acres he has but I know its way over 24 acres. Reading all your comments I do realize I have been very foolish and I am sorry. I probably sounded very inexperienced. Some things I am inexperienced with. I'm hoping to rescue an Australian Shepherd, so that solves the winter issue  My step sister has a few and they came over to the house once and the male had a golf ball size mass of stick tites in the fur on his chest after running around on my property all day. I had to do surgery with a small knife to get that ball off. I could tell he was very relieved after i removed it.I do plan on daily grooming, stick tites are a big problem there. I am now thinking about the fencing issue. I'm sure my grandpa would be willing to fence in part of the yard for me.


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

Just because it will be an Australian Shepherd doesn't mean it will never get cold or be uncomfortable. I know, I have three. What about summer? That can be as hard or harder for them in heat. Mine are only outside in the summer early in the morning and late into the evening. During the heat of the day they are all inside laying around in ac. Thats something else to think about.


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## kevin bradley (Aug 9, 2009)

Cassi_rose said:


> Well funny story is I used to live in a little town across from my grandpa out in the country. Then we moved to Missouri. Now im moving back to that little town and living with my grandpa. I honestly do not know how many acres he has but I know its way over 24 acres. Reading all your comments I do realize I have been very foolish and I am sorry. I probably sounded very inexperienced. Some things I am inexperienced with. I'm hoping to rescue an Australian Shepherd, so that solves the winter issue  My step sister has a few and they came over to the house once and the male had a golf ball size mass of stick tites in the fur on his chest after running around on my property all day. I had to do surgery with a small knife to get that ball off. I could tell he was very relieved after i removed it.I do plan on daily grooming, stick tites are a big problem there. I am now thinking about the fencing issue. I'm sure my grandpa would be willing to fence in part of the yard for me.



you are more mature than most I know, Cassi. Taking some time to think about this is a really kind thing to do.

If you go the fence route, I would recommend REALLY looking over EVERY nook and cranny of the fence. Chain link fence has lots of flex in it. One of my guys found a dip in the yard and figured out he could attack that spot and bend the fence enough to squeeze out the bottom. You also need to make sure you don't have a climber or super jumper. 4 foot fences can be easy to handle for some Dogs...I've never had that issue but there are some talented Dogs out there. A good option I've found and it might work well for you because it sounds like you might have access to lots of field stones(we have them everywhere in Michigan near farm fields)....imbed them around the perimeter of the fence. This usually stops digging in my experience.

If you are going to keep them in a Dog house for any modest amount of time, make sure its built right. The best Dog houses have a door then an area AWAY from the entrance so they can get completely away from the entrance area. Picture a square with the door off to the side, NOT in the middle. The door also needs some type of shield. You'll have to research some options. A heave plastic might work but if you have a chewer, that may not be smart. 

I don't love the idea of ANY dog living outside full time. But if you are going to do it, I'd rather it be done right. And frankly, with what I see every day in my city.... it pales in comparison. I'd encourage you to do everything you can to keep him inside some of the time.


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## Herzo (Feb 5, 2011)

I'm sorry I had the 24 acres in my head when you said you use to live where your dogs had 24 acres, my mistake. But it would still be a good idea if you can get your grandpa to help you fence in an area so when your not out with your dog it is not running lose.

You may luck out and have a dog that doesn't run I have seen them, but don't just assume they won't assume they will.


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## Kat (Jul 12, 2011)

This literally just happened to my friend yesterday. Never assume a dog won't run. My friends parents have an over 100 acre farm, and their dog was always off leash, wandering the property (brought in at nighttime to the sun room to sleep), and just yesterday, after years of never even attempting to go to the road, it went to the road and got hit by a car. So, just because a dog may seem well behaved on the property, does not mean something will distract it, and in that one moment it's life or death for the dog.


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

My parents live on an old 450 acre cotton plantation, and their whole front yard is fenced for their dogs. No running loose there for them either.


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## kevin bradley (Aug 9, 2009)

Kat said:


> This literally just happened to my friend yesterday. Never assume a dog won't run. My friends parents have an over 100 acre farm, and their dog was always off leash, wandering the property (brought in at nighttime to the sun room to sleep), and just yesterday, after years of never even attempting to go to the road, it went to the road and got hit by a car. So, just because a dog may seem well behaved on the property, does not mean something will distract it, and in that one moment it's life or death for the dog.


YEP YEP YEP.

I have a friend who used to laugh at me because I wouldn't just bring my dogs over to his property and let them run. He thought I was too anal about my Dogs. He has about 100 acres of land...and his Dog had free reign.

Well, one morning he came into work and told me that their Dog had gone into the road "unexpectedly" and sadly lost his life.

Roads/cars/Dogs don't mix. Dogs are NOT predictable no matter HOW well trained. One Squirrel/rabbit/scent etc... and instinct kicks in and I don't care if your Dog is trained by Ian Dunbar.... they can bolt straight into a car. 

THERE IS NO DOG that should EVER EVER EVER have free reign without you watching over them closely. NEVER.


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## Noodlesmadison (Sep 18, 2011)

Please, if you cant give a puppy proper housing, don't get one. They deserve to be able to sleep indoors in the warmth. That's ridiculous


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## Noodlesmadison (Sep 18, 2011)

Cassi_rose said:


> Id like to let you know as well that I have always had outdoor cats. I have three now that are completely healthy. All cats don't need to be hidden from every little danger. They can fend for themselves just fine in the outside world.


Do not get a dog.


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## bett (Mar 15, 2012)

Sprocket said:


> Outside/inside cats on a large property are very common and perfectly okay. Mine is indoor/outdoor and very happy.
> 
> He doesn't fend for himself but he does enjoy being a cat outside when he chooses to.
> 
> Personally I feel that having an indoor only cat is cruel.



i guess i'm tired of burying the cats that my neighbor insists on feeding.
plus, i'm in ny, not california, and hate when they sleep in my bushes when it's freezing outside. makes me think they need some protection from the elements. 
for some reason, they cant get the knack of not getting squished by cars.


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

bett said:


> i guess i'm tired of burying the cats that my neighbor insists on feeding.
> plus, i'm in ny, not california, and hate when they sleep in my bushes when it's freezing outside. makes me think they need some protection from the elements.
> for some reason, they cant get the knack of not getting squished by cars.


My cat sleeps in the house whenever he wants, he is very much a member of the family as much as the dogs are. We don't have much traffic on our rural road and he enjoys the outdoors so I'm not going to keep him from being a cat. Currently he is sleeping on the recliner in the living room, with a fire blazing.

I guess my point is that I prefer my cat to have freedom of choice and I hate litter boxes :tongue1:

In your case, you are a bit jaded by what you deal with and I don't blame you.


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

bett said:


> i guess i'm tired of burying the cats that my neighbor insists on feeding.
> plus, i'm in ny, not california, and hate when they sleep in my bushes when it's freezing outside. makes me think they need some protection from the elements.
> for some reason, they cant get the knack of not getting squished by cars.


I live in the suburbs, on a pretty quiet road... but still the suburbs. I have three cats, two very happy and content indoor cats, and one that absolutely can not be contained indoors. I had to replace the screens in my windows AND have my windowsills redone because he would scratch and ruin them trying to get out. I got a new screen door on my front door, too because he ruined that escaping. When cats are THAT hellbent on getting out and aren't happy living indoors only, I'd rather them have a short, but happier life, then keep them locked in a miserable. He doesn't even come home every day. He comes and goes as he pleases. I worry about him. I hope he's OK when I haven't seen him a while... but I can't afford to let him keep ruining the walls, LITERALLY, trying to scratch his way out.


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## Savage Destiny (Mar 16, 2011)

Sprocket said:


> Outside/inside cats on a large property are very common and perfectly okay. Mine is indoor/outdoor and very happy.
> 
> He doesn't fend for himself but he does enjoy being a cat outside when he chooses to.
> 
> Personally I feel that having an indoor only cat is cruel.


Yes, my four cats who live strictly indoors are horribly abused. Their lives are awful. Much worse than your cat's life, when he has all the freedom to be attacked by dogs and wildlife, get in cat fights, be run over by cars, be abused by strangers, eat poisonous substances, get locked in buildings/garages so he can starve to death, crawl in someone's car engine and die, and countless other things. Yeah... MY cats are the ones suffering. Give me a break.


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

Savage Destiny said:


> Yes, my four cats who live strictly indoors are horribly abused. Their lives are awful. Much worse than your cat's life, when he has all the freedom to be attacked by dogs and wildlife, get in cat fights, be run over by cars, be abused by strangers, eat poisonous substances, get locked in buildings/garages so he can starve to death, crawl in someone's car engine and die, and countless other things. Yeah... MY cats are the ones suffering. Give me a break.


Everyone has their opinions.  My cat is perfectly happy having choices. I feel bad for indoor only cats, that is my *opinion*. It's a human choice to live with inhaling cat feces. Yuck. I choose to let my cat deposit his feces outside and ponder the world.


Life is scary, we don't keep our children inside all day, it's not healthy. Why should we keep our pets locked up?


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## bett (Mar 15, 2012)

Sprocket said:


> Everyone has their opinions.  My cat is perfectly happy having choices. I feel bad for indoor only cats, that is my *opinion*. It's a human choice to live with inhaling cat feces. Yuck. I choose to let my cat deposit his feces outside and ponder the world.
> 
> 
> Life is scary, we don't keep our children inside all day, it's not healthy. Why should we keep our pets locked up?


while i agree that we all have opinions, and we should, i dont think you can compare our pets, in this instance to kids. you wouldnt leave a toddler outside alone, even if there wasnt a lot of traffic.
i'm not a cat owner, because of asthma, but always had dogs. and they don't roam, tho i'm sure at times they wish they could. i guess we all do it the way we see fit, but i would still not compare their thought process to that of a human, in terms of safety issues. some dogs know to stay away from cars, and some cats do too.
my husband always had cats and dogs. many an evening his cat came home, with pieces of his ear missing and bloodied. but they still let him out because he wanted out.
that's how they explained it too.
one day beautiful, gandolph never came home.


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

bett said:


> while i agree that we all have opinions, and we should, i dont think you can compare our pets, in this instance to kids. you wouldnt leave a toddler outside alone, even if there wasnt a lot of traffic.
> i'm not a cat owner, because of asthma, but always had dogs. and they don't roam, tho i'm sure at times they wish they could. i guess we all do it the way we see fit, but i would still not compare their thought process to that of a human, in terms of safety issues. some dogs know to stay away from cars, and some cats do too.
> my husband always had cats and dogs. many an evening his cat came home, with pieces of his ear missing and bloodied. but they still let him out because he wanted out.
> that's how they explained it too.
> one day beautiful, gandolph never came home.


I feel differently about dogs and cats. I don't let my dogs roam, period. A cat? Not that I don't love them less but they are different and I believe they need to be able to access the outdoors for maximum health. 

I wouldn't compare a cat to a toddler anyway. They are definitely at a higher level of intelligence. If I had a teenager I would definitely let them hang out outside. Bernard is happy and healthier making his choices  and I am happier and healthier not breathing in cat feces. Winning...


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## bett (Mar 15, 2012)

cat feces are not a turn on, i agree.


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## Boxers&Pom's Mom (Jan 17, 2011)

I have three cats (Rag Dolls) Two of them are very happy inside cats, but I have one that he loves to go outside. He will be miserable if I am not allow him to do it. We live in a cul de sac and he love to go outside and is smart to know when is safe to be inside. I wish he don't go outside, but even the vet told me he is very healthy and smart.


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## Savage Destiny (Mar 16, 2011)

Sprocket said:


> Everyone has their opinions.  My cat is perfectly happy having choices. I feel bad for indoor only cats, that is my *opinion*. It's a human choice to live with inhaling cat feces. Yuck. I choose to let my cat deposit his feces outside and ponder the world.
> 
> 
> Life is scary, we don't keep our children inside all day, it's not healthy. Why should we keep our pets locked up?


You don't let your dogs roam because you know the dangers... but you let your cat. Smart. That's what I don't understand, why people value their cats less than their dogs- and YES, it is valuing the cat less, because with a little effort, the same effort you put into your dogs, your cat could access the outdoors safely. People are just too lazy to do it, so they make themselves feel better by pretending cats somehow aren't affected by the dangers of the world like dogs are. 

My cats DO go outside. On leashes and harnesses, just like my dogs go out on leashes and collars. If I had a fenced yard, they'd get to go out and run around in the yard like my dogs would. Inside, they have tons of different toys, receive play time and stimulation every day, and have climbing areas, sleeping areas, and hiding areas in every room. They're not bored or under-stimulated. They're happy, healthy mentally and physically, and they're SAFE. 

If you don't want a cat box, don't get a cat. Don't just throw the poor thing outside and call it good. You're shortening your cat's lifespan over something you knew was part of the deal when you got a cat.


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

Savage Destiny said:


> You don't let your dogs roam because you know the dangers... but you let your cat. Smart. That's what I don't understand, why people value their cats less than their dogs- and YES, it is valuing the cat less, because with a little effort, the same effort you put into your dogs, your cat could access the outdoors safely. People are just too lazy to do it, so they make themselves feel better by pretending cats somehow aren't affected by the dangers of the world like dogs are.
> 
> My cats DO go outside. On leashes and harnesses, just like my dogs go out on leashes and collars. If I had a fenced yard, they'd get to go out and run around in the yard like my dogs would. Inside, they have tons of different toys, receive play time and stimulation every day, and have climbing areas, sleeping areas, and hiding areas in every room. They're not bored or under-stimulated. They're happy, healthy mentally and physically, and they're SAFE.
> 
> If you don't want a cat box, don't get a cat. Don't just throw the poor thing outside and call it good. You're shortening your cat's lifespan over something you knew was part of the deal when you got a cat.


I don't throw Bernard outside, he sits at the door and I open it for him. 

Call me what you may, I have my opinions, and you have yours. :wink: and the world will keep spinning.

He is so abused...:blah:

Clearly he is running from the big bad chickens...




























Clearly...I am not fit to own a cat... Bernard...run while you can!


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## Felix (Oct 9, 2012)

I haven't finished reading this whole post, but I'm definitely of the opinion that dogs should live inside with the ability to go out daily. I have known too many dogs that lived outside that have died of heat stroke, frozen to death to the ground or gotten a mass/infection/fly strike because they weren't checked upon frequently enough, gotten hit by cars and had their heads run over by their own owners.

Growing up, I was forced to keep my Golden Retriever in the garage when we moved to our new house, until I convinced my mom to let her stay in the laundry room. It wasn't much, but at least we could check on her daily and I had to sweep the area every day and mop once a week. We almost lost her one summer when it was very hot. Luckily a friend was coming to check on her and saved her life. After that is when we were able to keep her inside.


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## Felix (Oct 9, 2012)

And with the debate going on about the indoor/outdoor cats. There are things that can happen to both indoor (bite electrical cords, get stepped on, etc) and outdoor (get into fights, hit by car, etc) What they grow up with is what they will be used to. My kitten has gone outside (accidentally) and he RUNS when out there, he even scaled a 7 foot fence with barbed wire on the top of it, I live close to a busy street in the city so my cats will never be allowed outside. However, if I lived in the country I would reconsider it. I completely disagree with people who let their declawed cats roam outside though. That shouldn't be done in the first place, even if they are indoor only.


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## xchairity_casex (Oct 8, 2011)

Growing up we always had indoor/outdoor cats, they were free to come and go as they pleaseed
and in the 6 years of my childhood that we had outdoor/indoor cats we had
5 hit and killed by cars
8 litters of kittens
5 cats dissapear completely
1 cat came home shot
1 cat came home with a grub worm in her head
1 cat came home with a burned tail
1 cat starved to death in our porch as she climbed in and got stuck and we could not get her out
2 of my kittens i found mualed to death by dogs or coyotes i dont know i was 5 and i found them in the snow
and countless other injuries and wounds, one cat came home with its eye bleeding and another came home with obvious scratches from a wild animal.


So when i was 9 i told my mom my next kitten would NEVER EVER be allowed outside, and so far ive kept my promise, and non of my cats are worse for it. i grow grass for them to eat, and in quite a few of our houses they got all the hunting the could stand. and now, they are 15 years old and safely with me to spend there retirment years safe, warm and happy with me instead of nursing wounds from lord knows what or aquashed on the side of a road somewhere


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

Edited because I'm really too busy to have futile opinion debates.


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

Can't we all agree that everyone here is above-and-beyond pet owners, and that everyone is doing what they honestly feel is BEST for their animals... even if you don't agree with their choices?

Cats and dogs ARE different animals with different needs. Period. You can not compare the two and what should and shouldn't be OK for them because they are completely different species. 
Some cats are happy and content indoors. I feel indoors is best for these cats. Some cats are NOT happy and content indoors. I feel indoors is NOT best for these cats. I believe in the circle of life, and I believe in quality over quantity. 
Ironclad could live to 20 and spend every waking moment ripping my house to shreds trying to get outside, or he could live to 8, be completely happy, and get eaten by a coyote. Personally, I'd prefer the latter. But we could talk in circles all day long on it and at the end of the day, we ALL have happy, healthy cats who are well loved. Why split hairs and talk down to each other? The illusion of superiority isn't worth it.

**Any cat allowed outside should be spayed/neutered and microchipped. Non negotiable.


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## wolfsnaps88 (Jan 2, 2012)

I am kind of with Sprocket on this one. Cats are different than dogs. I wish my cat would only poop outside. She poops ooutside AND inside so I still deal with a cat litter box. Oh well. I let my cat come and go as she pleases. She wears a reflective collar and a bell but since we live in a somewhat private area, I don't worry too much about her getting run over by cars. She never travels too far...there are plenty of mice to hunt right here. A toy mouse is just not the same as a live one >

We have gotten some snow and she refuses to go outside. Fine with me. 

Now as far as dogs go, that's different. You can not compare the two. Dogs are social creatures (more so than any cat I have ever known). They need companionship, whether it be other dogs or people. I can not imagine owning an outdoor only dog. I feel bad for dogs that have to live that way. I think the dogs that people claim prefer living outside have probably never experienced the comforts of indoor living or if they have, it may have been too chaotic for them (kids running around, people yelling, etc.). I think any breed of dog CAN enjoy living inside. 

To the OP, if your only options are outdoor dogs, I think a cat really is the better option. Cats do fine outside, especially in the country, yet they can still be your buddy and hang out with you when you want. Don't get a dog now. If you really want a dog, you should wait until you have your own place or are in a better situation to care for one. They are like family, so treat them like family.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

I've never had a cat, if I did, it'd be one that lived inside only (which I guess means I would need to find one that was happy that way). I think cats can have VERY fulfilling lives indoors, with work from me. I grew up with barn cats too, so I'm not opposed to the idea, and several of those cats just never came home. But if a cat was mine, and I was attached to it as part of my family, I would just be too much of a worry wart to let them outside unsupervised.

If I get a cat, I'd like a Sphynx anyways (ideally) and I can't imagine that breed would want to spend a lot if time by itself outdoors, being all naked and cold and stuff lol.


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## wolfsnaps88 (Jan 2, 2012)

I think there is a difference between living in a city (which I would not condone letting pet cats outside) and living in the country. My cat was born outside. I think she came from generations of outside cats. Her personality is just so different than say, a fancy persian. She HAS to hunt. She was born a hunter. SHe gets so easily bored with toys (and I bought her so many...I donated most of them because she just did not care for them). For the first 6 months of her life she stayed inside. But she was not happy and she was driving me nuts. She still comes inside every day. There are days that she prefers to stay inside. When she does go outside, I can usually always see where she is. She stays close. 

I can understand city people not wanting to do this. I love my cat. But she is a wild thing for sure! I think she is happier this way. If I had a hairless cat of course it would not venture outside by itself. It could get sun burned or frost bitten. Each cat is an individual with its own needs. A hairless cat needs a sweater. A wild cat born outside needs to hunt a mouse. You just have to adjust accordingly.

Here are some pictures of her outside and inside. This is a happy cat

In the woodpile in my yard









Enjoying some fresh air in the side yard










Inside doing her thing










She is great at pest control. We used to have a mouse problem. Since I decided to keep her, we have had ZERO mice inside our home. She kills them (outside) and leaves them at the front door for me. How nice, right?


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## Gally (Jan 28, 2012)

I grew up in the suburbs and about 90% of cats were indoor/outdoor, with probably 50% of families owning cats. In the 19 years I lived there I knew 2 cats who were taken by coyotes and 1 who was hit by a car. The rest that I knew lived long lives, the youngest dying at 15 and the oldest making it to 21. The average lifespan for cats in my neighbourhood was probably around 16-17. Would they have lived longer if they were strictly indoor cats? I don't know. Most passed from cancer and organ failure. They were all spayed/neutered and none were de-clawed.

Not trying to argue with anyone just wanted to point out that indoor/outdoor cats can live long lives.


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## xchairity_casex (Oct 8, 2011)

Im not saying i disagree with having cats inside/outside if you live in the country, but people do need to realize that cats are not immune to get hurt while roaming freely outside, i have had outdoor cats and choose now to keep mine indoors.

our neighbor had an outdoor only cat and we live right on the main highway, she acted incredibly upset when he cat was hit by a car, as if it were a shock that HER cat could get hit by a car or somthing, we live in the middle of town on the main highway and she was shocked her cat was hit by a car....

she was in the front yard all night screaming and crying "WHY HIM!? WHY HIM!? WHY HIM?" ill tell you why, because yourh ouse is no mroe then 10 feet from a busy highway and 5 feet from another street, you have no fence, your cat has no collar and is never brought into the house, thats why he was killed by a car.

several years ago when we lived in the crap-hole apartment, a women my mom knew had a big freindly orange cat named garfield, every few weeks she would have to go out searching for him and would cry her eyes out when he didnt come home, she would always find him and keep him inside a day then let him back out again. well one day when she found him, she had found heh ad been attacked and killed by somthing and his head was missing and she went on a ramapage wondering how somthing like that could happen. well we live in Upper MI where wolves are frequently spotted around town, bears get into peoples trash cans and deer are spotted crossing hte road at cross walks.

so long as people understand the dangers that come with letting a cat outside i see no problem as long as people are smart too i see no problem.


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## Kassandra (Jun 6, 2012)

kevin bradley said:


> You also need to make sure you don't have a climber or super jumper. 4 foot fences can be easy to handle for some Dogs...I've never had that issue but there are some talented Dogs out there.


This is so so so so so important. Both of my dogs can clear 4 feet no problem. They can jump 5 feet with a little effort, getting stuck on top and hauling them self over. In winter we get a lot of snow and then what is really a 6 foot fence turns back into 4. We have a 10 foot fence because of the amount of snow we get in the winter. Once last year we had 4 feet of snow in our backyard and Charlie jumped it. I would also always do a wooden fence as some dogs (super chewers) can chew through the chain link (my boyfriends parents dog chewed right through their fence one afternoon when they first moved into the house, they since replaced it with wood.And if the dog is a digger, I would put the fence down into the ground a foot or two. Growing up, I had a dog that dug and dug and dug and then dug some more. He was always escaping the yard. Sometimes we wouldn't notice the holes at first as they were usually behind the shed where we couldn't see. Maybe you would get the perfect dog that did none of this, but there are always chances that they will and I personally would want to be prepared for them, especially if the dog is a rescue and an adult.


Also, I am with Sprocket on the cat issue.


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## Noodlesmadison (Sep 18, 2011)

xchairity_casex said:


> Growing up we always had indoor/outdoor cats, they were free to come and go as they pleaseed
> and in the 6 years of my childhood that we had outdoor/indoor cats we had
> 5 hit and killed by cars
> 8 litters of kittens
> ...


You didn't learn after the first 5?


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

Tiffany we don't see enough of your pretty kitty!! :biggrin:

FWIW - Bernard was rehomed by his owner specifically because he was not happy being an indoor cat. He was born on a ranch, then she moved to a small house downtown.


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## Kat (Jul 12, 2011)

I'm gunna have to agree with Sprocket on some aspects. With cats it can be different. My cousin had a cat who lived to 16, outdoor, never been vaccinated, had 3 litters of kittens with no pre or post natal care (which I don't agree with), and she died of cancer, not from the dangers of the outside world. And they lived on a main busy street, but the cat knew to avoid the road, and only roamed backyards. 

When I first got my older cat, she was outdoor until she was 7 months old, until someone started to try to steal her, convinced she was their male cat! So out of fear, I made her indoor only. It took almost a year before she finally stopped trying to escape. Now, she's terrified of the outside world lol. 

The only time I don't agree with a cat being allowed outside is if they are declawed, unaltered, or live in a dangerous/highly populated area. 

I don't think it makes Sprocket, or any other outdoor cat owner, a bad pet parent. Bernard looks happy and heathly, and I don't think they live to busy roads or anything like that. 

Yes, sometimes cats do die young because of accidents, cat fights, crazy people who want to hurt them. But, I think it depends on the area the people live in, and it's up to the pet parent to decide if it is safe to be letting the cat out.


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## BeagleCountry (Jan 20, 2012)

Noodlesmadison said:


> You didn't learn after the first 5?


She mentions twice that she was a child when this occurred. "So when i was 9 i told my mom my next kitten would NEVER EVER be allowed outside, and so far ive kept my promise,..." Kudos to a child who takes the initiative and accepts the responsibility to rectify the situation.


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## karisma11 (Feb 13, 2011)

From the veterinary perspective, unsupervised outdoor cats are NEVER a good idea. Naturally inquisitive, they are prone to accidental deaths. When I rotated through the emergency service, I saw the gamut- hit by cars (accidental and yes there are sick people out there who TRY to hit cats), rodenticide toxicity (eating mice who have eaten rodenticide), other poisoning events (especially antifreeze), parasites (external and internal), gunshot wounds, other traumatic events (cat came in with tail skinned down to the bone, never found out how it happened), animal attacks, and the list goes on. As you can see, it doesn't matter if living in the country or the city, these things can and do happen EVERYWHERE. The best thing you can do for your cat is provide an enclosed outdoor area where they can enjoy the outdoors while staying safe. Also provide abundant environmental stimulation indoors. 

-My 2 cents as a future vet


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## Kassandra (Jun 6, 2012)

To the OP (cassi_rose):

I hope you understand none of us are trying to stop you from adopting an animal. I personally think it's great that you want to save an adult dogs life by adopting. We all just want what is best for the both of you (you and the dog you may potentially adopt). I don't think any of the comments here or on your other post are meant to be rude, though some of them may seem that way as a few of us here get a little worked up over these types of things. We just want to make sure you are fully aware of the responsibility needed to take on a dog, especially an older rescue dog, and that you are fully prepared when you do decide to adopt.


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## Boxers&Pom's Mom (Jan 17, 2011)

Behind my house is an outdoor dog. They have him in a kennel with a house in there. I been checking and he has water and food and looks healthy, but let me tell you something, brake my heart to see that dog crying and barking specially at night. Right now is snowing here and I heard him. Nothing I can do because it is ok in Pennsylvania to have a dog like that. 
I see my dogs here in the family room with us, they going out and coming back to their nice and warm beds in their house. I feel so sad for that other dog. I can see how sad my dogs will be if I let them outside for long periods. They stay in the patio door for five minutes like telling me to let them in. No way! I can go to sleep leaving them outside under any circumstances.


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## xchairity_casex (Oct 8, 2011)

> I don't think it makes Sprocket, or any other outdoor cat owner, a bad pet parent.


i dont think it makes a person a bad pet parent either for having outdoor cats, even people who go out and get a "barn cat" to do nothing but live in the barn and hunt mice, dont have a problem with that either.
but i do get annoyed when people are dumb and belive that there cats will never ever have anything happen while going outside (like my specified neighbors)


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## Cassi_rose (Dec 16, 2012)

What made me decide to post something on this site is way beyond me now...


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## Kat (Jul 12, 2011)

Threads can open up new discussions and people become distracted from the original topic. It happens sometimes, I've gotten used to it lol. It's like that with any forum or Facebook page.


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

xchairity_casex said:


> i dont think it makes a person a bad pet parent either for having outdoor cats, even people who go out and get a "barn cat" to do nothing but live in the barn and hunt mice, dont have a problem with that either.
> but i do get annoyed when people are dumb and belive that there cats will never ever have anything happen while going outside (like my specified neighbors)


The same can be said about those that feel indoor cats are "safe" from harm.


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## porchpotty (Aug 10, 2011)

Talk to your grandpa about the dog's safety and well-being and then make some bargains. There are a lot of responsibilities attached to owning a dog.


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## xchairity_casex (Oct 8, 2011)

Sprocket said:


> The same can be said about those that feel indoor cats are "safe" from harm.


no they are not 100 percent safe, no one and nothing is totally safe, but atleast with my cats being indoors only if they get sick ill notice i havent seen them that morning and i can search the house, i can notice sooner when my cat begins showing slight symptoms of illness, i can begin to notice when they have stopped jumping up on certian pieces of furniture, i can see everytime they vomit and i can monitor how much they are usuing the bathroom or if they have diareha, i can monitor if they are having pain when they urinate or if theres blood in it right away before it becomes a huge problem or before they die.

if your cat is spending even 7 hours a day outside, and is only going potty outside theres alot your not going to be able to notice untill its really really bad.

when my cat ginger got pyometra, i had taken her into the vets and they said she was fine, but i could see somthing was "off" i couldnt put my finger on it, i just could tell so i kept taking her in and taking her in untill suprise! they were suprised to find out she had a bad case of pyo and had it let go she would have died. i was able to notice when no one else did because, shes with me all the time, always has been. had she ben running in and out of the house im sure she would have died.
(p.s if your wondering why she hadnt been fixed as a kitten it was because i got her when i was 9 years old and my mom simply told told me that so long as we got the male cat fixed we had no need to get the girls fixed, once i was old enough and got a job i did get them fixed, ginger was late to get fixed because i feared about complications due to her age)


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

xchairity_casex said:


> no they are not 100 percent safe, no one and nothing is totally safe, but atleast with my cats being indoors only if they get sick ill notice i havent seen them that morning and i can search the house, i can notice sooner when my cat begins showing slight symptoms of illness, i can begin to notice when they have stopped jumping up on certian pieces of furniture, i can see everytime they vomit and i can monitor how much they are usuing the bathroom or if they have diareha, i can monitor if they are having pain when they urinate or if theres blood in it right away before it becomes a huge problem or before they die.
> 
> if your cat is spending even 7 hours a day outside, and is only going potty outside theres alot your not going to be able to notice untill its really really bad.
> 
> ...


I have a long haired cat. I would notice if he had diarrhea no matter where he poops. I see my cat every single day. Last night he slept under the covers with us again. 

My point is that you cannot simply call one stupid and not call the other stupid. 

Those than tout that indoor only cats are safe are equally as ignorant to the dangers as someone who lets their cat outside and doesn't accept the level of danger. 

LIFE IS SCARY AND DANGEROUS. Nothing is safe. 

This pointing fingers baloney really gets old.


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## xchairity_casex (Oct 8, 2011)

Sprocket said:


> I have a long haired cat. I would notice if he had diarrhea no matter where he poops. I see my cat every single day. Last night he slept under the covers with us again.
> 
> My point is that you cannot simply call one stupid and not call the other stupid.
> 
> ...


i calledmy NEIGHBORS stupid, because they acted stpuid about the subject, you dont let a cat roam freely when you live smack dab in the center of town and expected it to NEVER get hit by a car, now if i met a person whos cat chewed on an electrical cord and died and was seriously asking "how did this happen?" i would be just as quick to call them stupid, but i cannot say as ive met a person who somthing like that has happened to.


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## werecatrising (Oct 15, 2010)

Indoor/outdoor cats are at risk of being hit by cars, eaten by predators, poisoned, etc. 
Strictly indoor cats have a higher chance of developing diabetes, obesity, urinary tract problems, behavior problems, etc.
I think it is up to each individual owner to decide what is right for their cat.


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## Savage Destiny (Mar 16, 2011)

werecatrising said:


> Strictly indoor cats have a higher chance of developing diabetes, obesity, urinary tract problems, behavior problems, etc.


Only if the owner is lazy or stupid. Sure, a cat that lives indoors and just free feeds dry kibble and is totally ignored other than the occasional cuddle can experience those things. Strictly indoor cats that eat raw food that is portioned out for them (or canned like one of mine who won't eat raw), get daily play time, exercise, and interaction, have various perches and climbing areas, have tons of different types of toys to keep them stimulated when we're gone, and get to go outside on leashed walks don't experience ANY of those problems. As I said before in this thread, the problems cats usually face are due to owner ignorance or laziness... If people would dedicate as much time to their cats as they do their dogs, cats wouldn't have so many behavioral issues and obesity problems. As a side note, it's silly to claim indoor cats have more problems with UTIs than outdoor cats... An outdoor cat, if they're not hunting and eating their kills (which plenty do not), has an equal chance of UTI just eating kibble as an indoor cat just eating kibble. An outdoor cat doesn't magically have more thirst drive or something.

Sprocket, it's plain dumb to claim indoor cats are just as much at risk as outdoor cats. There is plenty of research proving that indoor cats live roughly twice as long as cats who go outdoors. Further, every "danger" posed indoors can be cat-proofed, just like it can be dog proofed. Maybe in your house you have lots of exposed wires or chemicals lying out or something, but that's certainly not the case in my house.


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## Celt (Dec 27, 2010)

I see cats in the same light as dogs. That being said I see having an indoor only cat being no different than a dog that isn't allowed to go outside. No matter how many toys or playtime they are given doesn't make up for not having outside free time. Most walks do not included crawling under bushes, climbing up trees or skitering through tall grass. Most dogs do not want this kind of experiences, but if the only time a dog is taken out is to take a leisurely stroll (of less than an hour) over the same ground over and over again. Most people would see this as not a good thing but for an animal that does enjoy these experiences which really can't be duplicated inside , many people see no objection to this treatment. Sadly, not all cats adjust to walking on a leash which limits their enjoyment of the world to what they can get through a screen. I have owned indoor/outdoor, outdoor only and indoor only cats and have seen different social/psychological behaviors as well as health issues with indoor only cats showing more diffiiculties than the others. These are only my own thoughts, feelings and experiences and in no way is an attempt to "insult" or imply that others are wrong or "bad" in how they are supporting and loving their own precious being.


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

Savage Destiny said:


> Only if the owner is lazy or stupid. Sure, a cat that lives indoors and just free feeds dry kibble and is totally ignored other than the occasional cuddle can experience those things. Strictly indoor cats that eat raw food that is portioned out for them (or canned like one of mine who won't eat raw), get daily play time, exercise, and interaction, have various perches and climbing areas, have tons of different types of toys to keep them stimulated when we're gone, and get to go outside on leashed walks don't experience ANY of those problems. As I said before in this thread, the problems cats usually face are due to owner ignorance or laziness... If people would dedicate as much time to their cats as they do their dogs, cats wouldn't have so many behavioral issues and obesity problems. As a side note, it's silly to claim indoor cats have more problems with UTIs than outdoor cats... An outdoor cat, if they're not hunting and eating their kills (which plenty do not), has an equal chance of UTI just eating kibble as an indoor cat just eating kibble. An outdoor cat doesn't magically have more thirst drive or something.
> 
> Sprocket, it's plain dumb to claim indoor cats are just as much at risk as outdoor cats. There is plenty of research proving that indoor cats live roughly twice as long as cats who go outdoors. Further, every "danger" posed indoors can be cat-proofed, just like it can be dog proofed. Maybe in your house you have lots of exposed wires or chemicals lying out or something, but that's certainly not the case in my house.


WOW Keep tossing out the personal insults. It surely does wonders for your case :thumb:


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

xchairity_casex said:


> i calledmy NEIGHBORS stupid, because they acted stpuid about the subject, you dont let a cat roam freely when you live smack dab in the center of town and expected it to NEVER get hit by a car, now if i met a person whos cat chewed on an electrical cord and died and was seriously asking "how did this happen?" i would be just as quick to call them stupid, but i cannot say as ive met a person who somthing like that has happened to.


That is pretty stupid, I agree. However, I live on a road with very few houses, and very little traffic. Your post sounded like you were calling me stupid, I apologize if that was not the case.


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

Savage Destiny said:


> Only if the owner is lazy or stupid. Sure, a cat that lives indoors and just free feeds dry kibble and is totally ignored other than the occasional cuddle can experience those things. Strictly indoor cats that eat raw food that is portioned out for them (or canned like one of mine who won't eat raw), get daily play time, exercise, and interaction, have various perches and climbing areas, have tons of different types of toys to keep them stimulated when we're gone, and get to go outside on leashed walks don't experience ANY of those problems. As I said before in this thread, the problems cats usually face are due to owner ignorance or laziness... If people would dedicate as much time to their cats as they do their dogs, cats wouldn't have so many behavioral issues and obesity problems. As a side note, it's silly to claim indoor cats have more problems with UTIs than outdoor cats... An outdoor cat, if they're not hunting and eating their kills (which plenty do not), has an equal chance of UTI just eating kibble as an indoor cat just eating kibble. An outdoor cat doesn't magically have more thirst drive or something.
> 
> Sprocket, it's plain dumb to claim indoor cats are just as much at risk as outdoor cats. There is plenty of research proving that indoor cats live roughly twice as long as cats who go outdoors. Further, every "danger" posed indoors can be cat-proofed, just like it can be dog proofed. Maybe in your house you have lots of exposed wires or chemicals lying out or something, but that's certainly not the case in my house.


Most pet owners don't even know cats NEED all that stuff. Sad, but true. Most indoor cats do not have all of that. Heck, mine don't. I'm the first to tell you I love my dogs more than my cats. It's the truth. I don't even LIKE one of my cats. (In all fairness, it's difficult to like a cat that hates human contact) 
I also can't even imagine how any of my three kitties would tolerate a leash. It's comical just thinking about it. 
And I think it's unfair to say that people tend to be more negligent to their cats. Did you know in the USA people spend more money on cats than babies? Truth. 

I have thee cats. 
One spends MOST of his time outside, by his choice. He was given to me by a good friend when their home was no longer cat-safe due to other pets.(other pets were there first, Ironclad was a kitten) I've put more time and money into him than any cat, and he destroyed window screens, door jams, screen doors, and even the floor trying to get out all the time. All he wanted is to be outside. I leave kibble out for him (which in turn means most of my neighborhood cats eat PureVita grain free now. DOH!) and when he comes around, I give him bits of raw. He is a great mouse hunter and does eat his kills. Except the tails. I adore Ironclad... but I simply will not have my house completely torn to shreds, and no matter how much attention he got, or toys, or towers... he wanted out. He's happier now. If he dies young, that's OK. Circle of life. I'd rather him be happy and die young than live 20 miserable years. 
One is strictly indoor, never goes out, is completely happy, not obese, and won't ever go outside as long as she lives. I rescued her from a shelter and I absolutely adore her. She eats kibble only because she refuses to eat anything else after trying every trick in the book. She love people, but she also loves having a cat companion and is quite a playful 8 year old. 
Our third, Aria, is also strictly indoor, eats canned and raw, and hates people. She's a companion to Ellie- who really needed one when Ironclad was allowed outside, but I didn't want a cat that demanded much more of my attention. So, a cat-loving, people-hating Bengal was a good match. It works great. I ignore her. She evades me. Everyone is happy. 

Am I lazy for feeding Ellie kibble? Maybe. I tried for two and a half years to switch her, no luck. Am I lazy for wanting a cat I don't have to give attention to? Maybe. Oh well. Am I lazy for letting Ironclad outside? Maybe.

But I have three happy, healthy cats... who won't end up dying in a shelter, so quite frankly, I'm satisfied.


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## xchairity_casex (Oct 8, 2011)

All, i can say is, indoor only cats donot suffer when the owner cares for them, they really are not like dogs. 2 of my cats were born outdoors, without human contact underneath a porch and one (ginger) was caught by the momma cats owner and brought to me, the second, buddy was trapped on our porch by his momma, we used to feed her and one day she brought him down and he was trapped on the back porch, so we kept him and i belive it was fate because momma never came back for him or felt at all concerned about him being with us as she went right home after he was trapped and never came back.

and he is actually afraid to go outside, there have been times our front door has been left open, he sees hte open door takes a sniff and runs to hide, he is ironically happies spending most of his time in a single room of the house and tiptoes thruout the rest of the house, to large of an open area and hes terrified.

as for my girls, long ago they showed intrest in going outside, i took them oth out on harnesses, both of them tried running back for the house and never showed intrest to go back outside again.

my cats have never had an type of behavioral issue, they never ruined stuff, were not huge pee-ers of furniture, didnt get into fights or bite or claw people.

my male buddy has been going blind slowly and due ot that at night he wanders arounds and cries for a few hours untill i call him to me, but otherwise thats about it. all 3 of my cats are very attatched to eachother and to me and i doubt if given free access to the outdoors they would want to spend more then a few minutes outside anyways.


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

xchairity_casex said:


> my cats have never had an type of behavioral issue, they never ruined stuff, were not huge pee-ers of furniture, didnt get into fights or bite or claw people.


^^This. Having a cat like that could possibly change everything. I didn't allow my cats outside ever until Ironclad. Even now, he's the only one allowed outside because the others don't care to go and therefore I'd rather keep them indoor. 

I don't think being indoor or indoor/outdoor is what makes or breaks a cat's quality of life.... it's individual. 
I think some "barn cats" live full, happy, healthy lives, and so do some indoor cats, and everything in between.


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## Sheltielover25 (Jan 18, 2011)

First off, I agree it is in no way correct to say outdoor and indoor cats are equal in terms of health. Like a poster said there is ample evidence to show that not to be true. I have battled with this issue as I have a cat who tries to escape outside constantly. I've fought the fight for years and it got to where she would always somehow get out and to spite me stay gone a long time. If I allow her to go out in small doses she doesn't run away for lengths of time and comes inside when I call her. While this is in no way ideal, I am not sure what else to do. I know everytime she goes outside there are muliple dangers and the risks are highly elevated. It worries me sick but it's almost like what is the point in living if she can't do what she loves? Sometimes it's not all about the length of life but the quality. So if Astrid does have time taken off her life for going outside was she happier in the end overall? She was a feral cat rescued and she wants nothing more than to be outside in a bush at times. So for me personally I've given up on the fight an accept that in the end it might come back to bite me, but my cat is happier living eight years as an indoor cat who goes outside occasionally than she would be as a 15 yr old cat never allowed to go outside. 

It really isn't fair to say I don't love her as much because I do. Dogs are totally differ t creatures and strapping a leash on Astrid and going for a walk isn't what she wants. She wants to be independent and explore on her own.


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## Kat (Jul 12, 2011)

I do love my dogs more than my cats, but it's because dogs show more affection, and are genuinely happy to see me. My cats only like me, my mom, or sister, when they are hungry, that's it. I still put a lot of time and effort into my cats, they have 7 scratching posts ranging from 8 feet to 4 feet tall, which they are always climbing. I keep the posts by all the windows, and the windows are always open on nice days so they get fresh air and get to bask in the sun. I have bought tons of toys, which they for the most part ignore, they play with them on occasion. 

I have tried leash walking with both, but they do not tolerate it, so I gave up. I live in a highly populated area, in an apartment building, so for my cats, being partially out door is not possible, and recently there have been coyote and fox sitings, and I don't feel like finding my cats dead from a wild animal attack, which is why I choose to keep them inside.

If I had a house, and the budget, I would loveeeeee to build an outdoor enclosure for them, but I doubt that is ever going to happen.


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## xchairity_casex (Oct 8, 2011)

I hear so many people say "my cats dont care for me, my cats dont like to be petted all that much by me"

the biggest thing ive found with cat owners, is they dont pet cats right LOL! seems most cat owners tend to pet cats the way they would a dog, scratch roughly around the neck or down the back in a grabby motion, and ive found, most cats dont like that, they tolorate it for a lil while but not many like it from my own experience.


from what ive seen, cats like to do most of the work in the begining when being petted, let them rub against you and gently rub once or twice, most cats dont like being petted all the way to the tail base or around the face/ears

i had to earn the privlage to kiss and hug my cats by petting how they wanted me to pet them. all i did was sit still and let them rub against me for the first year, leaning in extremly gently, just enough pressure back to let them know i was not ignoreing what htey were doing but not so much as to over-welm them.

any ways, im babbling a bit of topic


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

Bernard is like a dog. He loves to be cuddled, squeezed and kissed. I wouldn't have any other kind of cat. I like cats that like me, just like dogs :biggrin:


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

My cat that doesn't like me is an F-2 Bengal and she evades all people. If she diesnt want to be caught or touched, she's not going to be.


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## Kat (Jul 12, 2011)

My cats are both rescues, my older one only tolerates me, but my younger one is ok with all of us. My older one especially is terrified of even being held, she will let me gently pick her up to bring her somewhere but begins to panic if I hold her for too long, the younger one on the other hand, he can be handled fairly easily, but he lets you know when he wants to be picked up. I still cuddle them and lay down with them and pet them, but they prefer being left alone. And I don't pet my cats like I pet my dogs lol, I've owned several cats before these two


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## Kat (Jul 12, 2011)

CorgiPaws said:


> My cat that doesn't like me is an F-2 Bengal and she evades all people. If she diesnt want to be caught or touched, she's not going to be.


My friend has a rescue Bengal too, if you pick her up she involuntarily urinates instantly. It took over 2 years for the cat to even approach anyone in the house. And even now, after almost 6 years, she can't be pet.


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## wolfsnaps88 (Jan 2, 2012)

I let my cat come to me (unlike my husband whose love is almost abusive). LOL. I pet her chin, side of her face, and let her do whatever. I respect her but she still stalks me and treats me like a spoiled teenager, demanding things and only showing affection when she wants to. While I love and respect her, I am a DOG PERSON FOR LIFE. And frankly, she is lucky I took her in. LOL.


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## xchairity_casex (Oct 8, 2011)

oh, i didnt mean to cause offense to anyone and how they pet there cats, its jsut from all the cats ive ever met are extremly perticular, my cat Ema never liked me to pet her till about 5 years ago because i expected her to like being petted like my other cat Ginger, but she didnt, i was reading all her signals wrong.


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## doggiedad (Jan 23, 2011)

wolfsnaps88: in the first pic showing your cat in the wood pile
at first glance i thought your cat had an amazing tatoo on her right leg front leg.


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

Horribly abused cat :tongue:


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## Boxers&Pom's Mom (Jan 17, 2011)

I have three Rag Dolls. One of them were a Rescue. She was a retired breeder. She is completely anti-social. She just come to me to ask for her food, but she also get panic if I carry her or touch her, specially her head. Something weird tho, she let me bath her LOL


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## kevin bradley (Aug 9, 2009)

with CATS, you have ideaology, and REALITY.

My area has a huge feral cat problem. I worked with a rescue a few years ago. They would get Vets to donate a Saturday of their time to run assembly line spay/neuters. We'd do 100 of them in a day. Just running them thru, one after another. It was endless.... they just kept coming. The cats would then get picked up by local farmers to be barn Cats and 'mousers. They had to commit to feed them and give them shelter(all had barns or outbuildings).

I learned alot on those Saturdays. I learned that life is about compromise and doing the best we can. Would I like to see those cats in warm, secure homes?...of course I would. But human beings have things so jacked up that its up to a few to discover the best of a bad world.


One other thing I learned.... I assisted on the male cats and was surprised how quick and simple the procedure was. I may be naive but after awhile I thought I could almost neuter a male cat....

So I came up with a thought... to help with cat overpopulation, I would allow lesser trained people do Neutering/spaying for cats. Is it IDEAL? No. But the cat operpopulation is out of control. And I think with a few months of training, you could at least have an army of "Neuterists" who could at least handle male cats. 

Alright, let me have it


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

Sprocket said:


> Bernard is like a dog. He loves to be cuddled, squeezed and kissed. I wouldn't have any other kind of cat. I like cats that like me, just like dogs :biggrin:


Thats how Smokey is. He loves rough play. The rougher you are with him, the more he keeps coming back for more. Kirby puts him on his shoulders, holds his feet and runs all through the house with him.


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

CorgiPaws said:


> My cat that doesn't like me is an F-2 Bengal and she evades all people. If she diesnt want to be caught or touched, she's not going to be.


Bengals are a little different. From what I have heard, the closer to the wild cat they are the more different their attitude is.


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