# Need Help !



## Boxers&Pom's Mom (Jan 17, 2011)

I do have two Boxers 6 & 7 years old. Emma the 6 years old is still very active and energetic. Cassie is more relax and mellow. 
My daughter got a Black Lab female also. She is 4 months old and very active. When she first got her I used to take her, to my house and Emma was acting like her mom teaching her and protecting her.
Now, things are changing. The Lab is way too active and Emma is taking it like aggression and is growling at her and getting really stress out. 
I really need them to be friends, because we visit each other a lot and I care for the Lab is my daughter go in vacations or something.
Emma is very good with Cassie and even with the baby Pomeranian. Even the Lab wants to play with the Pom and Emma get frustrated like she is going to hurt the Pom.
Should I keep trying or you think is better keep them apart. I am afraid that Emma could hurt the Lab in one of this incidents.
Any tips of how makes it works?


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

In general, its best just to let the dogs work it out amongst themselves. They know how to do this. The black lab pup is acting like a black lab pup. Emma tolerated it at first as adult dogs tolerate misbehavior from pups but as time goes on, the pups have to be taught how to act by the adults. I think this is whats happening now. Emma can do a much better job of "training" the pup on proper behavior than any human can. Stay out of her way and let her do it. The less humans intefere with relationships between dogs, the better.


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## Boxers&Pom's Mom (Jan 17, 2011)

RawFedDogs said:


> In general, its best just to let the dogs work it out amongst themselves. They know how to do this. The black lab pup is acting like a black lab pup. Emma tolerated it at first as adult dogs tolerate misbehavior from pups but as time goes on, the pups have to be taught how to act by the adults. I think this is whats happening now. Emma can do a much better job of "training" the pup on proper behavior than any human can. Stay out of her way and let her do it. The less humans intefere with relationships between dogs, the better.


 The Black Puppy is non stop. The trainer told my daughter to avoid that Emma bite her or something because then, she is going to be afraid of dogs. Emma is my Alfa dog and she is protecting all of us from her. Starting for the Pomeranian puppy to me. I will do it, but I am really afraid of a fight. Do you think is any chance that it become a fight ? or just training the puppy?


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## Ania's Mommy (Feb 8, 2009)

I think that a full blown fight involving an adult dog and a 4 month old is pretty unlikely. 

Emma is trying to teach the lab boundaries. The best thing you can do is let her. As RFD said, no human can as effectively teach this stuff as another dog can.

I don't think that Emma will actually bite the lab. When dogs correct, it is growling, quick warning barks, and little snaps. All of these are perfectly acceptable ways of canine communication.

And now I'm going to get out of this conversation now and let the real experts take over. :becky:


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

when we first got bubba, he was in malia's face like the tazmanian devil....when growling and walking away didn't work, she finally turned around and roared...when that didn't work, she nipped him.

it never turned into a full blooded war....but she surely did teach him manners.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

I definitely agree with Bill and Richelle on this one. Her growls and corrections to the puppy may sound absolutely horrible and aggressive but in reality they are just simple communications between dogs. The older dog is establishing boundaries and letting the puppy know what is appropriate and what is not. Think of it as a mother scolding a child for doing something inappropriate. If the older dog actually had intent to harm the puppy she would have done so already. 

Definitely supervise their interaction but let them sort things out on their own. Step in if an actual fight breaks loose but most likely, if your older dog gets frustrated enough she will escalate things to an appropriate level of correction and the puppy will get the hint and settle down.


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

Boxers&Pom's Mom said:


> The Black Puppy is non stop. The trainer told my daughter to avoid that Emma bite her or something because then, she is going to be afraid of dogs.


When your mom and/or dad spanked you did it make you afraid of humans? Don't think so. Emma MAY nip the pup but not a serious bite. The pup MAY bleed a little but most likely not.



> Emma is my Alfa dog and she is protecting all of us from her.


Not protecting you ... training the pup.



> I will do it, but I am really afraid of a fight. Do you think is any chance that it become a fight ? or just training the puppy?


Anytime you have a mutliple dog house, you will have little squabbles from time to time. To the inexperienced owner, these look like full blown fight to the death fights but they aren't. They usually last about 10 seconds and are over and forgotten about.

Emma is training the pup. It's what adult dogs do when around an out of control puppy.


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## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

We are dealing with this with my dog and a friends dogs right now. A 4 yo cattle dog x, a 5 month old pug, a 14 yo pug and a 12 week old miniature poodle. The older pug and younger pug live together, and the younger one is constantly in the olders ones face. I caught my friend telling the old pug off for disciplining the younger dog, and told her to step back and watch, but to trust the old dog to work it out. Don't interfere because you are taking away the older dogs ability to tell the younger pup that it has over stepped the mark. That will allow the pup to keep harrassing the older dog until it feels that it has no option left but to truly attack the younger one.
Now we watch the old dog and my dog discipline the younger one. It is interesting how they do it, all noise and no bite. If there is contact, its soft mouthed, but enough for the pup to back off immediately. It always sounds a lot worse than it actually is.
And, just this week, my dog has started playing with the pup, wrestling and sharing toys and food, things she would warn the pup off for before. It's like she's decided the younger one now knows its boundaries so they can now be friends.
Now we are going through the whole thing again with another friends 4lb poodle.
I know its hard, but trust your older dogs, they know what they are doing!


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## luvMyBRT (Mar 8, 2010)

This sounds exactly like Duncan and Lucky. Duncan can get over the top and Lucky needs to put him back in his place. I let her and don't interfear. Dogs have a great way of communicating and this is just Lucky's way of teaching Duncan boundaries and when it's time to calm down. I am sure when we get our next BRT pup Duncan will play a big role in showing/teaching the new pup manners.....Just like Lucky is doing with him now. And, just like Emma is doing with the lab pup.


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## Boxers&Pom's Mom (Jan 17, 2011)

OK! There we are. I am shaking here, but letting Emma do what she should do. Too far no blood yet. Baby Lab is getting the message. You guys are amazing. I will keep you updated! LOL


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## Boxers&Pom's Mom (Jan 17, 2011)

I am back home now after spending a week at my daughter's with 4 dogs, a cat and my 5 years old grandson. Baby Lab was able to stay in the same room with Cassie and Emma for about two hours. At the end she started again and I decided was time to go back to her crate. It was funny , because this time I let Cassie and Emma growl to Max without reprimanding them, and Cassie also start getting on Max. At least two times when Cassie was growling at Max ( Baby Lab)Emma came and purt her paw in top of Cassie like saying, don't worry I fix this brat. LOL
I am glad that I am back home.


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

You are making progress but you still are afraid. The dogs know what they are doing. :smile: I'm glad you saw it play out and how it works. :biggrin:


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## BrownieM (Aug 30, 2010)

I couldn't agree more with Bill. It is best if dogs work these things out themselves. Besides, there is little that humans can do to change the way a dog innately interacts with another dog. An adult dog can, will and should put an annoying puppy in its place. This is how puppies learn. This is how your puppy will learn to make sense of the world and how to properly interact with other dogs. By stepping in, you are doing nothing but getting in the way. (unless there is a real fight, which is HIGHLY unlikely).

I have waited MONTHS for Henry to put Millie in her place. Well, she's now 13 months and has taken over. She rules the roost. He never put her in her place but OHHHH did I ever wait for it. I have seen him slam her down and pin her with his mouth around her neck a few times, but she REALLY made him mad. Even so, nobody was hurt. She tucked her tail and walked away. Only to annoy him again a few minutes later...


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## Boxers&Pom's Mom (Jan 17, 2011)

RawFedDogs said:


> You are making progress but you still are afraid. The dogs know what they are doing. :smile: I'm glad you saw it play out and how it works. :biggrin:


Yes, I am afraid. It is my daughter's dog. I don't want one of my dog hurt her. If she were my dog I will be fine with it.:redface::smile:


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## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

I do understand where you are coming from, believe me. 
I'm having to put my total trust in my 40lb dog (cattle dog x german shepherd) around my neighbours 3 or 4lb teacup poodle puppy - with a nervous owner to boot. 
The owner is already turning the pup into a total lap dog, one who's feet don't touch the ground all because she is scared life will hurt the pup. 
I'm trying to ease her anxiety by telling her that it's just like having a elderly grandfather with a 2 yo kid bouncing off them. The old boy will only put up with it for so long before they tell the kid off and thats exactly what the older dog is doing to the pup.


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## Boxers&Pom's Mom (Jan 17, 2011)

An Update!!
I brought Baby Lab ( Max but is a girl LOL) to my house. She is been here for two days. I just let them, been together and not even worry. Emma still growl at her and yesterday looks like she hurt her a bit, because Max cry. 
I think they are doing fine together. Max is still crazy, but today Emma growl at her and she just pee in the floor. I think finally she is learning to respect her oldest LOL


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## SerenityFL (Sep 28, 2010)

This is something I had a hard time with, as well with my two hoodlum pups. There are other dogs in this neighborhood, older dogs, and one is very gentle with them, (a lab female), and will sometimes do a little bit of playing...not much, she's way overweight, but some other dogs...they definitely teach these pups a thing or two.

The first encounter was the dog my girl is in love with. This older boy dog accepted her playfulness to a point and then would growl and nip at her. The entire time I was watching, (I did not get involved because the owner of the dog was giving vocal play by plays the entire time, "Oh, just gave her another lesson. He'll teach her how to behave. She'll learn it."), it was hard for me to trust that this older guy knew what he was talking about....but I stood and watched. And the more I stood and watched, the more I realized, I was the only one cringing. The older guy, the older boy dog and my girl were perfectly fine. In fact, Sakari would get her "correction" from the older boy dog and still she would be all over the ground, very submissive but very playful towards him. I realized, he's not hurting her at all.

Another neighbor has two older dogs and one dog doesn't mind the pups one iota. In fact he enjoys chasing the boy. But the other dog acts like a grumpy old man and typically growls and shows his teeth, (head sideways), towards the hoodlum pups. It looks scary, like he's about to snap their heads off at any moment but my dogs do not fear him. They are being taught their boundaries with this dog and when they get it, this other dog will also play with them. Of course, my dogs seem to keep needing to learn this boundary lesson each and every time they see this other dog. 

And finally, they are being schooled by an older doxie. Yes, a doxie. Another Mr. Grumpy Pants. Two doxies live near me and again, one is fine, loves both of my hoodlums and one is not in the least bit interested in getting to know them that well. I always picture him yelling, "Hey you damn kids! Get offa my lawn!" and shaking his cane at them. That's how he acts. This doxie will pin Sakari to the ground and go at her. I mean, it looks like he's trying to tear Sakari's throat out. But again, Sakari continues to bolt on over to Mr. Grumpy Pants every single time she sees him so clearly she is not in fear.

It can be difficult to watch sometimes, especially if you've heard about serious dog fights or seen them and you think it's going to happen to your dog...but they are puppies. As someone said earlier, the chances of an adult dog seriously going after a puppy is like next to none. They are teaching them manners and how to behave around them. 

And it looks like yours is getting the picture. Mine? They're morons. They like to push the envelope.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

my bubba idiot does this to every dog in the neighbourhood. the older ones don't tolerate him one bit. they growl and nip at him when he goes too far which is every time he sees them....and still they have never hurt him.

malia turns her head sideways and does her growling that way, old lady that she is....as if she doesn't really want anyone to see her......and the owners all think she's all that as i watch her eyes narrow and her lip curl.....she's never hurt any of the youngins...even bubba who always goes too far.

your hoodlums....well, it sounds like they found some pretty good teachers....: )


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## Boxers&Pom's Mom (Jan 17, 2011)

I feel so bad for Max. Now, she is back to her home and she is by herself in the backyard. No one to play with. At least in my house she is free because I do have pet designer areas dog proof and she can be with us and free. Soon, she will go back to her crate. At leasrt when I am a t my daughter's I play with her, but since they have an open space and need to be hold with a leash all the time.


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## Tobi (Mar 18, 2011)

awww poor thing, hopefully the pup gets lots of interaction though. alot of good advice in here, most dogs will work things out pretty well, Tobi was the typical crazy dog etc etc when he is around other dogs that are older they show him his boundaries and they begin playing after normally.


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## Herzo (Feb 5, 2011)

I try to let the older dogs at the shelter teach manners also, they do such a better job of it.Last Monday an old Border collie that we have put down the black over zelous (sp) pup in about 2 seconds.Didn't hurt him any, I told her she was a good girl.He can be a hand full.I have never seen an older dog hurt a puppy and I've been at the shelter for many years.I love to just watch the way they inter acct with each other.It's good training, also for me.


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## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

Herzo said:


> Ian old Border collie that we have put down the black over zelous (sp) pup in about 2 seconds. just watch the way they


Gosh, I had to read this twice. I thought you had put the poor old Border Collie 'down'. 
I was going to tell you off!


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## Boxers&Pom's Mom (Jan 17, 2011)

MollyWoppy said:


> Gosh, I had to read this twice. I thought you had put the poor old Border Collie 'down'.
> I was going to tell you off!


ROFL It is too funny! It happen to me too!:biggrin1:


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