# On the flipside...WORST DOG FOODS....



## kevin bradley (Aug 9, 2009)

not really in any particular order...

1. Ole Roy
2. Pedigree
3. Dad's
4. Alpo
5. Purina


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## m&mluvpugs (Feb 7, 2010)

anything found at the grocery store or vet's office


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## kevin bradley (Aug 9, 2009)

m&mluvpugs said:


> anything found at the grocery store or vet's office


come on guys, I want specific brands :wink:


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## Unosmom (May 3, 2009)

I cant find the ingridient list now, but a while back I saw someone posted the ingridients of "Old Yeller" dog food, it was worse then Pedigree if you can imagine.. at least disney didnt hide behind the fact that it was made of rabied dogs.


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

1. Nutro
2. Beneful
3. Science Diet 
4. Anything prescribed from the vet Hills
5 Iams


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## luvMyBRT (Mar 8, 2010)

In no particular order:
1. Science Diet
2. Perscription Science Diet
3. Old Roy
4. Beneful
5. Alpo

Plus, many, many more! YUCK!


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## Unosmom (May 3, 2009)

I have to add this to the list, Purina Moist and Meaty (it smells like rubber)

Beef, high fructose corn syrup, soybean grits, soybean flour, water, wheat flour, corn syrup, calcium carbonate, brewers condensed solubles, phosphoric acid, salt, sorbic acid (added to prevent spoilage), calcium propionate (added to prevent spoilage), DL-Methionine, choline chloride, zinc sulfate, ferrous sulfate, vitamin supplements (E, A, B-12, D-3), ethoxyquin (a preservative), added color (Red 40), riboflavin supplement, manganese sulfate, niacin, calcium pantothenate, copper sulfate, biotin, thiamine mononitrate, folic acid, pyridoxine hydrochloride, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of Vitamin K activity), calcium iodate, sodium selenite.


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## harrkim120 (Feb 2, 2010)

*Nature’s Recipe Vegetarian Recipe*

Ground rice, soybean meal, cracked pearled barley, canola oil (preserved with mixed tocopherols), calcium carbonate, dicalcium phosphate, salt, dehydrated carrots, vitamins (vitamin E supplement, L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), inositol, niacin supplement, vitamin A supplement, d-calcium pantothenate, thiamine mononitrate, beta-carotene, riboflavin supplement, pyridoxine hydrochloride, menadione sodium bisulfite complex, vitamin D3 supplement, folic acid, biotin, vitamin B12 supplement), garlic oil, minerals (zinc proteinate, ferrous sulfate, zinc oxide, iron proteinate, copper sulfate, copper proteinate, manganese proteinate, manganous oxide, calcium iodate, sodium selenite), onion extract, garlic powder, rosemary extract

*Kibbles 'n Bits*

Corn, soybean meal, beef and bone meal, ground wheat flour, animal fat (bha used as preservative), corn syrup, wheat middlings, water sufficient for processing, animal digest (source of chicken flavor), propylene glycol, salt, hydrochloric acid, potassium chloride, caramel color, sorbic acid (used as a preservative), sodium carbonate, minerals (ferrous sulfate, zinc oxide, manganous oxide, copper sulfate, calcium iodate, sodium selenite), choline chloride, vitamins (vitamin E supplement, vitamin A supplement, niacin supplement, D-calcium pantothenate, riboflavin supplement, pyridoxine hydrochloride, thiamine mononitrate, vitamin D3 supplement, folic acid, biotin, vitamin B12 supplement), calcium sulfate, titanium dioxide, yellow 5, yellow 6, red 40, BHA (used as a preservative), dl methionine

*Purina Fit and Trim*

Whole grain corn, whole grain wheat, soybean meal, meat and bone meal, corn gluten meal, corn germ meal, soybean germ meal, chicken, animal fat preserved with mixed-tocopherols (form of Vitamin E), animal digest, turkey by-product meal, salt, calcium carbonate, L-Lysine monohydrochloride, added color (Red 40, Yellow 5, Blue 2), choline chloride, potassium chloride, Vitamin E supplement, zinc sulfate, zinc proteinate, ferrous sulfate, manganese sulfate, manganese proteinate, niacin, Vitamin A supplement, copper sulfate, copper proteinate, calcium pantothenate, garlic oil, pyridoxine hydrochloride, Vitamin B-12 supplement, thiamine mononitrate, Vitamin D-3 supplement, riboflavin supplement, calcium iodate, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of Vitamin K activity), folic acid, biotin, sodium selenite

*Chef Michael's Rotisserie Chicken Flavor*

Chicken, soybean meal, soy flour, animal fat preserved with mixed-tocopherols (form of Vitamin E), brewers rice, soy protein concentrate, corn gluten meal, ground yellow corn, glycerin, ground wheat, poultry by-product meal, animal digest, salt, oat meal, calcium phosphate, calcium carbonate, natural rotisserie chicken flavor, dried peas, dried carrots, sulfur, Vitamin E supplement, choline chloride, zinc sulfate, ferrous sulfate, niacin, potassium chloride, L-Lysine monohydrochloride, manganese sulfate, added color (Yellow 5, Blue 2, Yellow 6, Red 40), Vitamin A supplement, calcium pantothenate, thiamine mononitrate, copper sulfate, riboflavin supplement, Vitamin B-12 supplement, pyridoxine hydrochloride, garlic oil, Vitamin D-3 supplement, folic acid, calcium iodate, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of Vitamin K activity), biotin, sodium selenite

*Chef Michael's Filet Mignon Flavor*

Beef, soybean meal, soy flour, animal fat preserved with mixed-tocopherols (form of Vitamin E), brewers rice, soy protein concentrate, corn gluten meal, ground yellow corn, glycerin, poultry by-product meal, ground wheat, animal digest, salt, pearled barley, calcium carbonate, calcium phosphate, natural filet mignon flavor, dried potatoes, dried green beans, added color (Red 40, Blue 2, Yellow 5, Yellow 6 and other color), sulfur, Vitamin E supplement, choline chloride, zinc sulfate, ferrous sulfate, niacin, potassium chloride, L-Lysine monohydrochloride, manganese sulfate, Vitamin A supplement, calcium pantothenate, thiamine mononitrate, copper sulfate, riboflavin supplement, Vitamin B-12 supplement, pyridoxine hydrochloride, garlic oil, Vitamin D-3 supplement, folic acid, calcium iodate, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of Vitamin K activity), biotin, sodium selenite


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## kevin bradley (Aug 9, 2009)

wow, I'm pretty surprised at some of the answers here...

I don't disagree that Science Diet and Iams are bad...but wow, up there with Old Roy!!!??? 

Hey, I won't defend them though!!:redface::wink:


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## luvMyBRT (Mar 8, 2010)

kevin bradley said:


> wow, I'm pretty surprised at some of the answers here...
> 
> I don't disagree that Science Diet and Iams are bad...but wow, up there with Old Roy!!!???
> 
> Hey, I won't defend them though!!:redface::wink:


Have you seen the ingredient list for the SD Perscription foods?????

K/D
Brewers Rice, Pork Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), Dried Egg Product, Flaxseed, Corn Gluten Meal, Chicken Liver Flavor, Soy Fiber, Calcium Carbonate, Potassium Chloride, L-Lysine, Choline Chloride, Iodized Salt, Calcium Sulfate, Potassium Citrate, vitamins (L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin A Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin, Folic Acid, Vitamin D3 Supplement), Vitamin E Supplement, Taurine, minerals (Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite), L-Tryptophan, Magnesium Oxide, *Ethoxyquin *(a preservative), Beta-Carotene. 

C/D
*Ground Whole Grain Corn*, Pork Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), Chicken By-Product Meal, Soybean Meal, *Corn Gluten Meal*, Soybean Mill Run, Chicken Liver Flavor, Calcium Sulfate, Soybean Oil, Flaxseed, Iodized Salt, L-Lysine, Choline Chloride, Dicalcium Phosphate, Vitamin E Supplement, vitamins (L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin A Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin, Folic Acid, Vitamin D3 Supplement), *preserved with BHT and BHA*, Taurine, Potassium Chloride, minerals (Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite), Beta-Carotene. 

R/D
*Ground Whole Grain Corn*, Powdered Cellulose 15% (source of fiber), Chicken By-Product Meal, Soybean Meal, Peanut Hulls 11% (source of fiber), Chicken Liver Flavor, Soybean Mill Run, Dried Egg Product, Corn Gluten Meal, Soybean Oil, Iron Oxide, Vitamin E Supplement, Potassium Chloride, Iodized Salt, vitamins (L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin A Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin, Folic Acid, Vitamin D3 Supplement), Choline Chloride, *preserved with BHT, BHA and Ethoxyquin,* Taurine, minerals (Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite), L-Carnitine, Beta-carotene. 

Yup, you bet. I'd put them down with Old Roy in a heart beat.


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## kevin bradley (Aug 9, 2009)

saraj2878 said:


> Have you seen the ingredient list for the SD Perscription foods?????
> 
> K
> Yup, you bet. I'd put them down with Old Roy in a heart beat.



hey, I'm not defending SD or Iams...I just wouldn't think they were as bad as Old Roy. 

Doesn't really matter because if it doesn't say Evo, Acana or Orijen...it doesn't enter my house :biggrin:


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## luvMyBRT (Mar 8, 2010)

Here's the first 5 ingredients in Ol Roy:

Ground yellow corn 
soybean meal 
ground whole wheat 
corn syrup 
poultry fat 

I guess I really don't see the difference????


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## jdatwood (Apr 13, 2009)

Old Yeller by Disney (Kroger brand)

Ground Yellow Corn, Meat & Bone Meal, Soybean Meal, Poultry By-Product Meal, Wheat Middlings, Animal Fat, Animal Digest, Brewers Rice, Salt, Brewers Dried Yeast, Brewers Dried Grains, Dried Whey, Propionic Acid, Choline Chloride, Calcium CZarbonate, Rice Mill By-Product, Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, and lots of other crap... (don't feel like typing it all in and can't find it online to copy and paste)


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## kevin bradley (Aug 9, 2009)

saraj2878 said:


> Here's the first 5 ingredients in Ol Roy:
> 
> Ground yellow corn
> soybean meal
> ...



Possibly no difference Sara....as I said, I don't really care(which beats the other in terms of "awfulness") and wouldn't tell anyone to feed either food. My instinct tells me that Iams/SD are probably a bit better...but I could be wrong.


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## kevin bradley (Aug 9, 2009)

jdatwood said:


> Old Yeller by Disney (Kroger brand)
> 
> Ground Yellow Corn, Meat & Bone Meal, Soybean Meal, Poultry By-Product Meal, Wheat Middlings, Animal Fat, Animal Digest, Brewers Rice, Salt, Brewers Dried Yeast, Brewers Dried Grains, Dried Whey, Propionic Acid, Choline Chloride, Calcium CZarbonate, Rice Mill By-Product, Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, and lots of other crap... (don't feel like typing it all in and can't find it online to copy and paste)




JDAT, your picture....it just hit me....anyone tell you that you resemble a certain Pittsburgh QB? (with all due respect as I'm sure you don't follow his behavior


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

I agree that SD/Iams/Eukanuba/RC RX diets are not as bad as things like Ol Roy, Ol Yeller, K&B, etc but only marginally better. I don't recommend them to anyone anyways.

Another funny thing is that Hill's makes RX diets for every ailment out there. They tell their customers to buy their maintenance diets and feed those until their dogs/cats get something like kidney or liver disease or IBD. Its like Hill's knows exactly how to set up these poor animals to get the diseases that their magical RX diets can make better. Seems pretty darn fishy to me or at best a PROFITABLE business and nothing more. Granted every case of kidney and liver disease and IBD is NOT food related (ie genetics) but a large percentage of those cases are from inadequate nutrition for so long.

My list of foods that I think are the worst?

Any of these take the cake (I like that Abady is the first food on the list :wink: )

http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/dog_food_reviews/showcat.php/cat/7

Next in line, not as bad as the above:

http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/dog_food_reviews/showcat.php/cat/6

These are decent, if someone is on a super tight budget:

http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/dog_food_reviews/showcat.php/cat/5


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## jdatwood (Apr 13, 2009)

kevin bradley said:


> JDAT, your picture....it just hit me....anyone tell you that you resemble a certain Pittsburgh QB? (with all due respect as I'm sure you don't follow his behavior


You're the first to ever tell me that LOL Even my buddy who is a DIE HARD Steelers fan never made the connection


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## kevin bradley (Aug 9, 2009)

I picture Old Roy and companies like that....sitting in a room, conjuring up ways to make their food the absolute cheapest way possible while still being able to legally meet the requirements to put it on the shelf...their theme would be "how low can we go"...in terms of quality and price. Top off their Wal Mart affiliation and you have the perfect storm of garbage. 

Again, I'm not defending Iams or SD or whatever....but its just my instinct that they are marginally better...but again, I could be wrong. Hell, they might be the exact same crap for all I know.


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## kevin bradley (Aug 9, 2009)

jdatwood said:


> You're the first to ever tell me that LOL Even my buddy who is a DIE HARD Steelers fan never made the connection


JDat, make sure he sees the picture you used with your wife/girlfriend out here....seriously dude, its pretty close. :wink:

You should head over to Broncos training camp...they already have about 25 QB's in their mix. One more won't hurt :wink:


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

kevin bradley said:


> JDat, make sure he sees the picture you used with your wife/girlfriend out here....seriously dude, its pretty close.


I'm just the girlfriend :wink:



> You should head over to Broncos training camp...they already have about 25 QB's in their mix. One more won't hurt


Jon doesn't like to get his hands dirty...so  :tongue: :biggrin:


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## kevin bradley (Aug 9, 2009)

oh wow, I had no idea. :biggrin:

nice lookin' couple and I'm sure Jon's about as far from Ben as he could be :wink:


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

kevin bradley said:


> oh wow, I had no idea. :biggrin:
> 
> nice lookin' couple and I'm sure Jon's about as far from Ben as he could be :wink:


No worries, its like we parade it that we are together or anything...although there is a pic of him and I in my sig...

If I had any idea of how Ben acted I would tell ya...?


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

In no particular awful order....

1. Ol' Roy
2. Old Yeller
3. Alpo
4. Pedigree
5. Kibbles & Bits
6. Purina Dog Chow
7. Purina Moist & Meaty
8. Beneful
9. Hills (including RX formulas)
10. Atta Boy


I couldn't limit it to just five. Heck, limiting it to ten was hard enough, but I consider these to be the worst of the worst, and all about on the same level. I don't consider Hills to be any better than Pedigree or Ol' Roy.


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## buddy97 (Mar 29, 2010)

RC makes my list based on price vs product.


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5 (Feb 11, 2010)

i was gonna mae this thread too, i wanna see the worst of the worst. i disagree with nutro...that's not even close to the worst... its a bad food, but not even close to the worst. its been recalled many times, but the ingridient list is ''ok'' id give it atleast 2.5 stars..


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5 (Feb 11, 2010)

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> i was gonna mae this thread too, i wanna see the worst of the worst. i disagree with nutro...that's not even close to the worst... its a decent food.


Bakers Complete Beef & Country Vegetables


Ingredients
Cereals, Meat and animal derivatives (minimum 4% chicken beef and minimum 4% fresh meat in the soft moist kernel), Vegetable protein extracts, Derivatives of vegetable origin (1.1% charcoal in the dark brown kernel), Oils and fats, Various sugars, Minerals, Yeasts, Vegetables (minimum 4% vegetables in the green kernel). Contains EC permitted colourants, antioxidants and preservatives.


Typical Analysis
Protein 23%
Fat 10%
Ash 6.5%
Fibre 3%
Calcium 1.3%
Vitamin A 12,000 I.U./kg
Vitamin D3 800 I.U./kg
Vitamin E 60mg/kg
Copper (as copper sulphate) 17mg/kg
Iron (as iron sulphate) 75mg/100g

i love how al l3 of the formulas loo exactly the same ingridient wise but claim to be different meat sources....and wtf???cereals?


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

Are you kidding me about Nutro, do you know how many dogs have died eating this crap?


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> i disagree with nutro...that's not even close to the worst... its a decent food.


Erhhh if being recalled more than any other food and killing thousands of animals is decent.... sure. 

Reliability of a company plays just as big a role in quality as ingredients do.:wink:


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5 (Feb 11, 2010)

wel l i revised my post, to make it more clear..its not a decent food but i dont consider it in the 1 star category..maybe 2 stars...

it didnt make your top ten worst..which i was going for also..

its not one of the worst..

i used to think it was the best lol!

i think that food i just posted is the worst!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 worse than ole roy.


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> wel l i revised my post


Ah. I see. Much more accurate. :wink:


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5 (Feb 11, 2010)

CorgiPaws said:


> Ah. I see. Much more accurate. :wink:


i dont think old yeller looks THAT bad either. i mean its definately horrible, but it atleast has meat/bone meal as second ingridient..so it has more meat than a lot of the others in this thread!


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## kevin bradley (Aug 9, 2009)

I'd agree with RC from this standpoint...

From a pure ingredient listing perspective...Nutro is nowhere near some of the real crap foods. 

BUT, I'd agree w/ Linsey and White. that there is more to a food than an ingredient listing....

It's the primary reason I get into battles w/ people recommending Diamond foods. Labels look fine and I suppose if we absolutely can't get them into Healthwise or something close, then Diamond may be ok. 

Frankly, I'm surprised that more emphasis isn't given upon the trustworthiness of the companies when looking at foods. After what I battled with Canidae...never, ever again. In one quick swoop, that food launched me...literally LAUNCHED me into the arms of Acana, Evo, and Orijen. 

Back to the WORST of the WORST. I like this topic. Kind of funny(though not to the poor dogs eating the stuff


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## wags (Jan 31, 2009)

wow so many though I cant list just 5!

Kibbles 'n Bits 
Ol' Roy 
Pedigree 
Bil Jac 
Diamond (Plain, Regular Formula) 
Good Life 
Beneful 
Eukanuba 
Hills Science Diet 
Science Diet 
Purina One 
Royal Canin 
Abady 
Alpo
ProPlan 
Iams

I bet I missed alot also!:wink:


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## dobber1 (May 19, 2010)

FWIW, I've fed 4 of the foods in the Wags' post with good results. But anyway....

I agree that Kibbles and Bits is not the greatest, however, I have seen one dog that looked great, had great energy and a fantastic coat on Kibbles and Bits. He became so adept at picking out the bits that his owner started buying him the Kibbles and Bits and More Bits that used to be available.

Joy Maintenance is not so great. I had a friend who fed it to his old hound for years. He switched to Black Gold High Energy Blend and his dog's coat condition, weight, and energy really improved. 

At my local feed store, they have an 18% Protein Dog Chunx. I would feed anything listed in previous posts over this food. But, I have seen people buying it.


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## buddy97 (Mar 29, 2010)

worst 5:

Orijen
Wellness Core
Acana Pacifica
Beneful
Pedigree

someone who feeds raw told me there is no difference between the grocery store brands and the more meat filled grainless foods, so this is my new list

im dropping the orijen from Kimba's rotation and giving her pedigree starting tonight. im certain i wont notice any difference in the near future or even 8 years from now:tongue:


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## PUNKem733 (Jun 12, 2009)

buddy97 said:


> worst 5:
> 
> Orijen
> Wellness Core
> ...



LOL!!! I know, I'm doing the same thing, except I'm going with Ol' Roy, it's like the cheapest ever, you can get like 50 pound bags for like 12 bucks. This is awesome!!!!


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## ziggy29 (Feb 1, 2010)

dobber1 said:


> I agree that Kibbles and Bits is not the greatest, however, I have seen one dog that looked great, had great energy and a fantastic coat on Kibbles and Bits. He became so adept at picking out the bits that his owner started buying him the Kibbles and Bits and More Bits that used to be available.


Well, I'll go back to the old analogy here. There are people who do all the wrong things healthwise -- they smoke, drink to excess, eat too many lousy foods and don't exercise -- and yet they live a relatively healthy life into their 90s. 

And then there are the folks who do just about everything right and they die at 50 anyway. Jim Fixx ate well, exercised a lot and should have been the blueprint for a long and healthy life. But he was cut down early by a heart attack in his early 50s.

Doesn't seem fair. Sometimes it seems like random good luck. Sometimes it's just genetics.

Similarly, I'm sure there have been dogs that lived good lives well into their upper teens with Ol' Roy. And some dogs had the benefit of a good diet and died well short of 10 anyway.

Having said that, I don't think it's a coincidence that Jack La Lanne is still going pretty strong at what, 95 or 96 years old now? Some of it may be luck or genetics, but you don't do what that dude has done in his 70s, 80s and into his 90s without doing a lot of things right. 

Proper nutrition is not a guarantee of anything. And bad nutrition is not a guarantee of a short life, either. But I prefer to play the odds, and the odds tell me that "good food" with high meat content and no clearly harmful ingredients are likely to provide the best "odds" to give our dog a longer and healthier life. I only hope the damage I may have done with the junk we fed her for four years wasn't serious and that it is largely reversible.


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## buddy97 (Mar 29, 2010)

ziggy29 said:


> Well, I'll go back to the old analogy here. There are people who do all the wrong things healthwise -- they smoke, drink to excess, eat too many lousy foods and don't exercise -- and yet they live a relatively healthy life into their 90s.
> 
> And then there are the folks who do just about everything right and they die at 50 anyway. Jim Fixx ate well, exercised a lot and should have been the blueprint for a long and healthy life. But he was cut down early by a heart attack in his early 50s.
> .


yep. genetics play such a huge role and there is nothing we can do to alter that. also, younger dogs and humans can get away with eating garbage (at least for a while anyway). while i was in high school and college, my diet subsisted of pizza, balogna sandwiches, ho ho's, chocolate milk, reese's pb cups, etc.... i was healthy, had lots of energy, and played college basketball. my diet was very palatable to me. by some dog owners definitions, this was "good" food because "it worked for me."

of course, had i continued this through the years, i most certainly would have paid for it sooner or later...so, i think ingredients certainly do matter over the long run. i dont think the damage from eating garbage will necessarily be apparant in the short run, but i think it minimizes the chances for a dogs optimum health over the long haul.


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## kevin bradley (Aug 9, 2009)

....the old argument that "I know so and so who smoked and ate butter and fat his whole life and he lived to be 85."

A couple points I would make...

a. He/she may have lived to 105 had they taken better care of themselves

b. what was their quality of life? coughing and having strokes and multiple heart attacks isn't much fun.

c. for every example of someone who DIDN'T eat and exercise who lived long...I would guess there are countless others who died early. 

To say that it doesn't matter what we eat(or what Dogs eat) is crazy. I've had 2 Vets tell me that it doesn't matter. I just knew it sounded wrong.


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## lola (May 3, 2010)

put it this way..who cares if that person lives to 80 or 105? would you really like to live that long in the first place? does it really matter? i want to be dead by 70, anyways. that's a good long life. what am i going to miss in life if i live longer..nothing, basically.

i'm all for being healthy and i feed my dogs a quality kibble (and would feed raw if i could) but being overly healthy i think is..unhealthy because you miss actually living while being so health conscious. and with uncontrollable genes,environment..just do the best you can without going crazy and obsessing over it.


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## ziggy29 (Feb 1, 2010)

lola said:


> put it this way..who cares if that person lives to 80 or 105? would you really like to live that long in the first place?


Depends on the quality of life. If I were infirm and chronically ill and in pain since my 60s, no, I wouldn't want to live like that for another 30 years. But if I were healthy and enjoyed life, sure. 

And this was just an analogy; the real question is about the longevity of dogs. Assuming they were happy and healthy to the end, would you rather they live to be 10 or 15?


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## kevin bradley (Aug 9, 2009)

I don't get your point Lola. Who CARES how long you live? If it doesn't matter, why don't we all put a gun to our head today? 

That argument seems ludicrous. Life is beautiful and anything you gain by eating crap food, smoking, drinking, and thrashing your body won't gain you much happiness. 

Trust me on this.


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## cochon (Sep 28, 2009)

I definitely care how long I live. I think your 80's and 90's can be a great time in your life. And I totally disagree that being overly healthy is unhealthy. All it takes is not having food be the top priority/enjoyment in your life. So what if you can't have processed junk? First of all, fresh, well-cooked food tastes better anyways, and nowdays, even with snacks like chips and cookies you can get products that don't have artificial colors, ingredients, and preservatives - just go to Whole Foods or a similar store. And secondly, you eat to live, not the other way around. I would rather be healthy and see and experience things than eat junk. I think there is lot more enjoyment in that.


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## buddy97 (Mar 29, 2010)

lola said:


> put it this way..who cares if that person lives to 80 or 105?.


crap. id better talk to my dad. he is 78, runs 4 miles 3x/week and lifts weights. he spends most of his day outdoors either gardening or doing some type of project. i think he needs to cut that out and be put into a nursing home cause its almost over for him


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## wags (Jan 31, 2009)

I'm right now in the middle years! 70 sounds good to me 80 sounds even better 90 woohoo yessssssssssss!!!!!!!!!!!! 100 well thats pushing the envelope but heck if I'm walking ~talking~ coherent~ able to get myself around to the neccesary things in life heck!~ ok I'm there!:biggrin: I like little old laides~ heehee! But in all seriousness, we all want quality of life and that is very important. Humans don't leaglly have euthenasia rights we as knowledgeable beings have these rights for our animals and when that time comes for them its the hardest decision you will ever make. I have made this decision and its horrible. You know pain and suffering but 'eh I tell you ~you still in the back of your mind question yourself. I dont care what anyone says, I know in your heart you no matter how old sick or what is wrong with your pet you question your ethincs! Whew I'm tearing up here ! Hard day anyway for me I have to go to my hubbys cousins wake! She lived to the ripe old age of 59 and yep I think thats too young to go!Could be why I am saying these things, emotional! I have been to a few of these lately and yikes what the heck? Well I'm shooting for 95! I will let you guys know (if I can still type) if I make it there! :wink:Oh well I can dream! Oh and I only eat chicken and fish and I do though love chocolate occasionally wooo Have to have that and my coffee!!!!!! Such vices haha!:tongue:


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## lola (May 3, 2010)

cochon said:


> I definitely care how long I live. I think your 80's and 90's can be a great time in your life. And I totally disagree that being overly healthy is unhealthy. All it takes is not having food be the top priority/enjoyment in your life. So what if you can't have processed junk? First of all, fresh, well-cooked food tastes better anyways, and nowdays, even with snacks like chips and cookies you can get products that don't have artificial colors, ingredients, and preservatives - just go to Whole Foods or a similar store. And secondly, you eat to live, not the other way around. I would rather be healthy and see and experience things than eat junk. I think there is lot more enjoyment in that.


but then again..80's,90's does it really matter? you already lived a good long life. who cares if a few years gets cut short? i'd rather live my life care free than be so meticulous and waste it worrying about, "oh..but am i gonna make it to 80 if i eat this chocolate cake?"
and whole foods is expensive. again, i'd rather buy basic foods at the grocery and get my meat at the market then spend foolishly at that store and then spend my extra money on a trip.


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## lola (May 3, 2010)

kevin bradley said:


> I don't get your point Lola. Who CARES how long you live? If it doesn't matter, why don't we all put a gun to our head today?
> 
> That argument seems ludicrous. Life is beautiful and anything you gain by eating crap food, smoking, drinking, and thrashing your body won't gain you much happiness.
> 
> Trust me on this.


well, we ain't suicidal here now are we? 

and to the last part, everything in moderation!


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## lola (May 3, 2010)

buddy97 said:


> crap. id better talk to my dad. he is 78, runs 4 miles 3x/week and lifts weights. he spends most of his day outdoors either gardening or doing some type of project. i think he needs to cut that out and be put into a nursing home cause its almost over for him


well he's healthy and happy so that's good. i'm just saying i don't want to deal with dementia and Alzheimer's and i'd like to go before those horrible sickenesses get up to me. i DON'T want to be in a nursing home and my only social/enjoyment is playing bingo.

well i think my point was that everything in moderation is the key and i don't want to spend my years in a convalescent home and i'd like to leave this earth independently! and during those ripe old ages it's inevitable that death is coming and if you are 80 and have dementia why not just..kill yourself. it's not like you are young and 16 with an irreparable illness!


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## poodlelvr (May 24, 2010)

*Growing old. . .*

I think it's really hard to say things about wanting to go this way or that way; until you are actually there. Sometimes a minor illness can cause a great physical impairment where a person needs a lot of assistance getting around --doesn't mean they'd rather not be here. Even if it's a difficult illness; you'd be surprised at how many people want to stay around just to be around their families and loved ones and watch them grow up. Just sayin' you don't really know how you will feel until you get there.


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

lola said:


> put it this way..who cares if that person lives to 80 or 105? would you really like to live that long in the first place? does it really matter? i want to be dead by 70, anyways. that's a good long life. what am i going to miss in life if i live longer..nothing, basically.


I think this statement is not only a little ignorant... but also off the target anyway. We're not talking about people here, we're talking about dogs. The differene between 85 and 95 isn't HUGE for a person (though I'll be sure to let my great grandmother, who is 94, know that everything she's done since 70 is pointless. (the birth of 18 grandkids, and 24 great grandkids.... travel to Fiji, and humanitarian work...) 

Going back to dogs, the difference between 10 and 15 years of QUALITY life IS big. Even so, dogs I've seen on crap kibble like Iams and Eukanuba Science Diet especially, don't have the kind of quality of life from day one that dogs fed a better diet do. It's not all about how long the live, it's about the quality of life while they're living, and Eukanuba and Iams, in the hands of P&G has done NO good for any dog. 

I personally like smaller dog food companies started with a passion for dogs. Of COURSE they're all out to make money, but I like knowing there's no Tide in what I feed my dogs.


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## goujon (Feb 10, 2010)

1 all that use menadione (Nutro, Nature's Recipe, Purina)
2 Science Diet - may be marginally better than the cheapest but such a ripoff because it is only marginally better and costs twice as much.
3 Royal Canin - next biggest ripoff - biggest gimmick with different food for each breed and fancy package waaay overpriced.

I think Science Diet and Royal Canin are worse because when you buy Pedigree or Beneful you know that you are buying the cheapest food there is and have no right to expect anything more. When you pay the prices that Science Diet and Royal Canin charge you have every right to expect something better and you don't get it.


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## ziggy29 (Feb 1, 2010)

CorgiPaws said:


> I personally like smaller dog food companies started with a passion for dogs. Of COURSE they're all out to make money, but I like knowing there's no Tide in what I feed my dogs.


Precisely, and this is why the Natura sellout to P&G was so disappointing to many people. It's possible to profit with principle, especially if the business is privately held and family-owned. The big publicly-traded conglomerates are only beholden to their shareholders. Smaller, privately-held businesses may choose to leave some potential profits on the table because they won't sacrifice their values. A public megacorp won't.


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## lola (May 3, 2010)

CorgiPaws said:


> I think this statement is not only a little ignorant... but also off the target anyway. We're not talking about people here, we're talking about dogs. The differene between 85 and 95 isn't HUGE for a person (though I'll be sure to let my great grandmother, who is 94, know that everything she's done since 70 is pointless. (the birth of 18 grandkids, and 24 great grandkids.... travel to Fiji, and humanitarian work...)
> 
> Going back to dogs, the difference between 10 and 15 years of QUALITY life IS big. Even so, dogs I've seen on crap kibble like Iams and Eukanuba Science Diet especially, don't have the kind of quality of life from day one that dogs fed a better diet do. It's not all about how long the live, it's about the quality of life while they're living, and Eukanuba and Iams, in the hands of P&G has done NO good for any dog.
> 
> I personally like smaller dog food companies started with a passion for dogs. Of COURSE they're all out to make money, but I like knowing there's no Tide in what I feed my dogs.


i like small companies too, and don't condone any big company. if your grandmother was and is healthy and aware from 70+ then that's good. what i'm saying is if she were sick and out of it...then that's not life to me.

you don't really know dogs who are "not that healthy" and if it's the direct result just from the food. genetics i think, play a big part. some dogs eat really good yet get sick and cancer and die at age 7 and others eat iams and live to 15.


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## lola (May 3, 2010)

poodlelvr said:


> I think it's really hard to say things about wanting to go this way or that way; until you are actually there. Sometimes a minor illness can cause a great physical impairment where a person needs a lot of assistance getting around --doesn't mean they'd rather not be here. Even if it's a difficult illness; you'd be surprised at how many people want to stay around just to be around their families and loved ones and watch them grow up. Just sayin' you don't really know how you will feel until you get there.


if you have Alzheimers, you're gone and not conscious anyways. it's your body telling you that's it, this vessel is done.


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## buddy97 (Mar 29, 2010)

lola said:


> if you have Alzheimers, you're gone and not conscious anyways. it's your body telling you that's it, this vessel is done.


sorry, but i find this statement a bit ignorant.

my mom was diagnosed with it 4 years ago. she still enjoys many things in life. she needs help with some things and often needs some direction with some things, but is nowhere close to "gone". she still goes walking, rides a bike with my dad, enjoys going out to dinner and visiting her kids (and yes, still knows very much who we all are), and enjoys interacting with her dogs, among other things. alzheimers is a terrible thing, but there can be quite a few years of quality life left even after diagnosis.


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## PUNKem733 (Jun 12, 2009)

buddy97 said:


> sorry, but i find this statement a bit ignorant.
> 
> my mom was diagnosed with it 4 years ago. she still enjoys many things in life. she needs help with some things and often needs some direction with some things, but is nowhere close to "gone". she still goes walking, rides a bike with my dad, enjoys going out to dinner and visiting her kids (and yes, still knows very much who we all are), and enjoys interacting with her dogs, among other things. alzheimers is a terrible thing, but there can be quite a few years of quality life left even after diagnosis.



Yeah I think the other poster has it wrong. My grandpa had it, and he was fine for a few years. The end was not pretty, but he lived with it fine for awhile.


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## ajcstr (May 24, 2010)

ziggy29 said:


> Precisely, and this is why the Natura sellout to P&G was so disappointing to many people. It's possible to profit with principle, especially if the business is privately held and family-owned. The big publicly-traded conglomerates are only beholden to their shareholders. Smaller, privately-held businesses may choose to leave some potential profits on the table because they won't sacrifice their values. A public megacorp won't.


Maybe if there is enough backlash (decreased sales of Innova, etc) these types of takeovers won't be as attractive to the bigger companies.


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5 (Feb 11, 2010)

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> Bakers Complete Beef & Country Vegetables
> 
> 
> Ingredients
> ...


still thin this is the worst


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## KC23 (Nov 17, 2010)

This one belongs here for sure:

*Gravy Train*

Ingredients:
Corn, soybean meal, beef and bone meal, animal fat, animal digest, salt, cellulose gum, caramel color, potassium chloride, bone phosphate, choline chloride, minerals (ferrous sulfate, zinc oxide, manganous oxide, copper sulfate, calcium iodate, sodium selenite), pantothenate, riboflavin supplement, pyridoxine hydrochloride, thiamin mononitrate, vitamin A supplement, folic acid, biotin, vitamin B12 supplement, vitamin D3 supplement), dried beef stock, red 40, yellow 5, yellow 6, blue 2, BHA (preservative), tocopherols (preservative), citric acid (preservative).


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## Evoke (Aug 10, 2011)

1.Ol roy
2. Gravy Train
3. Alpo
4. Kibbles N' Bits
5. Iams
5. Science diet
6. Purina
7. Authority
8. Avoderm
9. chef michaels
20. euanuba
21. Mighty dog
22. Pro plan
23. Pedigree
24. Royal Canin


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## tem_sat (Jun 20, 2010)

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> still thin this is the worst


That is truly extra nasty.


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5 (Feb 11, 2010)

tem_sat said:


> That is truly extra nasty.


whenever isee animal digest i think of throwup


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