# Good info on Raw or SARF!



## STPFAN (Feb 5, 2009)

Raw Meat Diet - Cat's Cradle Catahoulas


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

Thats a pretty good article. There are some parts I don't agree with.


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## AMonkey (Mar 14, 2009)

Which parts?



RawFedDogs said:


> Thats a pretty good article. There are some parts I don't agree with.


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

"_If you are feeding a true “whole prey” diet which includes tripe
(not the tripe sold in grocery stores for human consumption - it’s bleached 
and any goodness is destroyed) then there is no need to add minced veggies.
If you can not find tripe or are not feeding it, then veggies are essential
to offer missing nutrients._"

There is nothing special about tripe. It is a body part just like all the rest. It is not a wonder food. There is never a need to add minced veggies or any other kind of veggie. There are no nutrients in veggies that aren't in the meat, bones, and organs of the animals that need them.

When I see people say that dogs are missing nutrients if they don't eat veggies, I always ask what those nutrients are and so far no one has been able to answer that.

_"**Note** - recent studies with canines has shown a dramatic 
decrease of cancers - 90% - when dogs are fed green, yellow and orange 
vegetables, so you might want to add this 2 - 3 times a week for good measure."_

What studies? Who did the studies? How many dogs? What period of time did the study take place? What percentage of the test dog's diet was veggies? What veggies did they eat?

It's always easy to say "research has shown ... " and not come up with the actual research. Anyone who says veggies decrease cancer are sadly mistaken. Cancer feeds on carbs. Carbs cause some cancers to grow faster.

The author of this web pages appears to feed chicken necks which can be dangerous for a lot of dogs.

Other than those 3 little things, I like the page.


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

You know we disagree about the chicken necks, but my female choked so badly on turkey necks, I find that they are very hard, not easily chewed or cut with one of those big choppers in the kitchen. I've found many different websites promoting prey model diet and they also suggest chicken necks, so what the ****?. I think that something happened to one of your own dogs is why you don't promote chicken necks!
Am I way off? I also found this website very informative, going in further they also talk about not vaccinating and titering.


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

I aways advocate feeding whole turkey necks, not the cut ones you usually find in grocery stores. The whole necks are about a foot long and weigh around a lb. Yes, I agree that you shouldn't feed cut turkey necks because they can be a choking hazzard. I have nevr heard of a dog dying from them but they have scared the owners before.

Hehe, no, my dogs have never had a problem with chicken necks. Mainly because they haven't ever been fed one. I wouldn't worry about my dogs and chicken necks anyway because they could swallow them whole without any problem. They can swallow a whole turkey neck or a chicken quarter. Why would I worry about a chicken neck for them? Its the medium size dogs I worry about. They can easily get choked on chicken necks. Very large dogs and very small dogs don't have problem except most very large dogs don't bother chewing them and thats one of the main reasons for feeding raw.

I mainly advise staying away from chicken necks because of the experiences of other that I know on other lists.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

RawFedDogs said:


> There is nothing special about tripe. It is a body part just like all the rest. It is not a wonder food. There is never a need to add minced veggies or any other kind of veggie. There are no nutrients in veggies that aren't in the meat, bones, and organs of the animals that need them.
> 
> When I see people say that dogs are missing nutrients if they don't eat veggies, I always ask what those nutrients are and so far no one has been able to answer that.


I think they are saying to add in minced veggies as a part of the diet if "green" tripe is not added to the diet, not for the organ itself, but its contents. Yes, the organ itself is just another body part, which is not high in nutrients itself, but...

Tripe that is not for human consumption, "green" tripe, still has its contents inside. Since carnivores typically prey on herbivorous animals, you can count on the contents of the intestines to be nearly if not all plant material. Since herbivores have the enzymes necessary to break down plant cellulose, the nutrients form the plant contents of the intesetines becomes available for digestion by the predator (aka your dog).

Mincing veggies is trying to compensate for this digestive action by the intestines of the prey animal. It really doesn't do that great of a job IMO, yes, some of the cell walls get broken down by the process of mincing. But not enough to make it worth while IMO. 

RFD is right that the nutrients found in plant matter are also found in bone, meat, and organs. But I think that it is not HARMFUL to the dog to add minced veggies, just not necessary. 

If dogs do enjoy veggies, make sure that they are minced so they can at least get some nutrients from them. Handing a dog a whole carrot will just give them one more thing to chew on...not necessarily give them the nutrients from it.


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

O.K. just because I'm in a mood, doesn't happen very often though. I do have to say that since I've added the green canned lamb tripe to the dogs diet maybe twice a week, 
their coats have really brightened up and are silky soft.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

whiteleo said:


> O.K. just because I'm in a mood, doesn't happen very often though. I do have to say that since I've added the green canned lamb tripe to the dogs diet maybe twice a week,
> their coats have really brightened up and are silky soft.



If you have noticed a change in the way their coats are then definitely don't stop!!!

Probably all the nutirents they are getting from the *contents* of the tripe are responsible for the shine and softness to their coats.

No need to change their diet if what they are eating is making an improvement 

*May I ask where you are getting the green canned tripe?*


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## jdatwood (Apr 13, 2009)

I've always considered ordering from GreenTripe.Com since some raw feeders say that it's beneficial...


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## rannmiller (Jun 27, 2008)

They seem to be ridiculously expensive as far as shipping costs go though!


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## jdatwood (Apr 13, 2009)

Actually, when you look at it they're charging $20-30 depending on where you live for 20-46lbs of tripe to be delivered. That's pretty reasonable to me. I used to run the shipping department for an internet store and that sounds like pretty much standard rates.

UPS ground rate from California to Denver (where I'm at) would cost $15.07 so it sounds like they've factored in a little extra for packaging & handling. Certainly not overly high shipping costs 

I haven't really looked for other places though since I never decided to feed tripe or not...


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

jdatwood said:


> I've always considered ordering from GreenTripe.Com since some raw feeders say that it's beneficial...


You should then


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## jdatwood (Apr 13, 2009)

danemama08 said:


> You should then


Maybe once we get a bigger freezer


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

jdatwood said:


> Maybe once we get a bigger freezer


Well there is a huge upright waiting for us at my house


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## jdatwood (Apr 13, 2009)

Well then...


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

The canned tripe that I use is New Zealand green lamb tripe, they also have beef tripe, it is intended to be supplemented with a raw or kibble diet. Tripett


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## ImWithThePyr (Apr 8, 2009)

Maxwell the Pyr will not touch green tripe to save his life.


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

ImWithThePyr said:


> Maxwell the Pyr will not touch green tripe to save his life.


Tripe is not what a lot of people think it is. According to greentripe.com, "_Tripe is the stomach of ruminating animals_". They didn't say stomach and contents. They also say, "_Green tripe does not necessarily refer to it's color. In this instance it refers to the fact that it has not been touched - not cleaned, not bleached and not scalded. It's actual color is brown, however, sometimes there will be a greenish tint due to the grass or hay the animal ate just before slaughtering._"

Even if the contents are in the tripe, what are those contents? It is grass. If is not zuchinni, tomatoes, carrots, potatoes, beans, etc. It is grass. If grass were nutritious, cows wouldn't have to eat 16 hours a day. Are there enzymes in tripe? Yes. Enzymes for digesting grass. Not very useful to a dog.

Some people say that dogs eat stomach contents of their prey animals. That is just not so. From David Mech's Wolves: Behavior, Ecology and Conservation (2003):

"_Wolves usually tear into the body cavity of large prey and...consume the larger internal organs, such as lungs, heart and liver. The large rumen [, which is one of the main stomach chambers in large ruminant herbivores,]...is usually punctured during removal and its contents spilled. The vegetation in the intestinal tract is of no interest to the wolves, but the stomach lining and intestinal wall are consumed, and their contents further strewn about the kill site._"
-p123

"_To grow and maintain their own bodies, wolves need to ingest all the major parts of their herbivorous prey, except the plants in the digestive system._" 
-p124

David Mech is the world's foremost researcher of wild wolves.

When I feed my own dogs whole rabbits, they will take the stomach out of the rabbit, sissor it open, and shake the contents out before eating it. They don't eat the intestines. They pile them up in a neat little pile beside the carcass.

I didn't teach them to do this. They did it on their own from the first whole rabbit they ate.

To be perfectly honest, I have talked to a few people whose dogs do eat the stomach contents and intestines. Most people I talk to have dogs that don't. As someone said in an earlier post in this thread, tripe won't hurt your dog but as far as I can find out, they are pretty useless nutritionally.


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## ImWithThePyr (Apr 8, 2009)

I guess there's a reason Maxwell won't eat tripe... he knows he doesn't need it. :smile:


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