# What my Grandpa fed his foxhounds



## NewfieAussie (Feb 19, 2013)

My grandpa was a dog man, with a pen full of Walker foxhounds in the Missouri Ozarks. It was his life, living in rural hills with hundreds of acres and an almost nightly foxhunt. He was Master of Hounds at many hunts, traveled the midwest and south to judge hunts and was written up in Sports Illustrated in probably the 60's about foxhunting. The Hunters Horn would have pictures and interviews too. 

Anyway, this is what he fed his hounds that my Mom and I could remember.

In the 30's after the depression he would stop by a butcher and get scraps to feed, thats all she recalled.

In the 40's and 50's my mom said he fed corn meal mash cooked on the stove with cracklin's. Cracklin's were the scraps and fat after trimming bacon.

I remember in the 60's and 70's him scooping up a coffee can full of Houn' Dawg dog food and putting it in a huge skillet, adding water from the pond, adding eggs, some venison or other meat and lard, then he cooked it at his hunting cabin on a two burner gas stove. It was a big warm bucket of food that he would pour into upside down hub caps and cream can lids. He kept a bottle of Karo syrup above the stove for dogs that needed that.

He would have 15-30 foxhounds at a time. Good memories.


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## monster'sdad (Jul 29, 2012)

NewfieAussie said:


> My grandpa was a dog man, with a pen full of Walker foxhounds in the Missouri Ozarks. It was his life, living in rural hills with hundreds of acres and an almost nightly foxhunt. He was Master of Hounds at many hunts, traveled the midwest and south to judge hunts and was written up in Sports Illustrated in probably the 60's about foxhunting. The Hunters Horn would have pictures and interviews too.
> 
> Anyway, this is what he fed his hounds that my Mom and I could remember.
> 
> ...


And people worry about Pro Plan.  

I bet he rarely if ever neutered, the dogs were kenneled outdoors and didn't vaccinate either. 

Feeding cormeal, hog feed and sour milk was very common in rural areas.


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## bett (Mar 15, 2012)

yeah, lots of kids eat twinkies too.


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## NewfieAussie (Feb 19, 2013)

Bett, this is history of how dogs were fed in this area of the U.S.

Monsters Dad-Correct, he didn't neuter or vaccinate. He tried to keep is dogs out of vet offices because thats were the diseases were he would tell me. 

He did his own dew claw removal with his pocket knife fast when puppies were born. I was a kid and watched and they didn't bleed or even know anything happened.

He cleaned weed seeds out of their inner eyelids with his thumbnail or the end of their ear.

He loved his dogs, they were his life, muscular healthy running dogs and he was proud of his line. He would explain how he would keep them slim and said you didn't want them to get fat, you should be able to see their ribs.

If a female was it heat she would stay in the barn, away from the others.


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## monster'sdad (Jul 29, 2012)

NewfieAussie said:


> Bett, you dont have to be a jerk, this is history.
> 
> Monsters Dad-Correct, he didn't neuter or vaccinate. He tried to keep is dogs out of vet offices because thats were the diseases were he would tell me.
> 
> ...


Bett doesn't understand that the vast majority of problems that dogs have are caused by either their breeder or their owner. 

Well bred dogs that stay intact, get exercise and don't get bombarded with vaccinations live long happy lives on very average feed store foods and no silly supplements.

All the chinese herbs in the world are not going to help a genetically busted or otherwise physically compromised animal.

Rather than preach, Bett should go to a canine sporting event and watch how these things trump hysteria over canola oil and corn.


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## DaViking (Sep 27, 2011)

bett said:


> yeah, lots of kids eat twinkies too.


and/or hang on the couch


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## brindle (Mar 14, 2013)

I tried all of the higher "quality" foods on the market... you name it, I've used it. I've also tried a raw diet done properly. 
The absolute BEST she has done is on "mid-grade" dog food (Healthwise, Iams, Horizon Complete) with random toppers. She looks amazing, she has energy, she has gorgeous coat, insane amount of muscle for doing practically nothing all winter, small/compact stool.... 
I kept feeling insecure about what other people feed their dogs in comparison to what I feed mine but, what takes the cake for me, is how other people's anecdotes never work out for MY dog.... that says everything. 
It's almost like some people are blinded by the need for their diet choice to work that they are oblivious to how poorly their dog is doing on the chosen diet. Some tend to buy into the fancy "health" food to such a degree that they will tolerate weeks of diarrhea, broken teeth, impactions, itching, biting etc. Like really? Come on!
All the dogs in my past were fed grocery store kibble with table scraps. Never neutered. Never vaccinated (for anything): they never needed to go to a vet and they lived well into senior years (including a giant breed living to 15). 
I don't think I wil be spaying my dog. I also don't think I'll be vaccinating her for anything besides rabies from now on (she has had her puppy vaccines).
Edit: before people start mentioning "detox" I just want to say that I recently changed my diet in a drastic way. From eating crap like fast food, Twinkies, Pepsi etc DAILY to eating veggies, whole grains, lean meats (only sugar from fruit). The only "detox" I went through was some mild fatigue and a few headaches for a week. I didn't crap water or lose all of my hair or break my teeth on a piece of toast. Just FYI. 
This diet that I changed to is from one extreme to the other so if anyone should have detoxed, it would have been me lol


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## bett (Mar 15, 2012)

NewfieAussie said:


> Bett, you dont have to be a jerk, this is history of how dogs were fed in this area of the U.S.
> 
> Monsters Dad-Correct, he didn't neuter or vaccinate. He tried to keep is dogs out of vet offices because thats were the diseases were he would tell me.
> 
> ...


I dont have to be a jerk and when you stick around for a bit, perhaps you will be able to pick out who the jerks are.
And who is rude.
Im sure it wont take too long.
Monstersdad( hershey, hershey123, sal and about a zillion other names used, each time he gets banned) thinks he knows what i know about dogs and their history.
Ummm, not really.
I also remember folks giving cooked bones to dogs. Doesnt make it correct, or safe.
And sal, really, i preach?
Sorry to tell you but yeah, i believe the chinese herbs helped rex's liver. The proof is there.
And yeah. I even believe in acupuncture.
And sal, i agree that genetics is the real deal.never said it wasnt.
And, what makes you think i dont titer and not over vaccinate?
You may think you know me, but really, you dont.

And you can poo poo genetically modified corn or canola oil or even gargle with roundup if you like.i'll choose organic, when i can.


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## brindle (Mar 14, 2013)

bett said:


> I dont have to be a jerk and when you stick around for a bit, perhaps you will be able to pick out who the jerks are.
> And who is rude.
> Im sure it wont take too long.
> Monstersdad( hershey, hershey123, sal and about a zillion other names used, each time he gets banned) thinks he knows what i know about dogs and their history.
> ...


Come on... what you said was a provocative comment. If you can't handle the heat, get out of the kitchen. 
I've read plenty of monstersdad's comments and while he can be a d**k sometimes, he makes completely valid points for the most part. He cuts the crap and says it the way it comes to mind as opposed to sugar coating it, I can appreciate that in this sugar coating world we live in. 
Do I agree with everything he says? No. Do I think he is knowledgable about what he is talking about? Most of the time. 
Get over it. Sometimes people who stir the pot have more to offer to the table then people who follow like sheep. 
Sorry for all of the analogies lol


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## bett (Mar 15, 2012)

brindle said:


> Come on... what you said was a provocative comment. If you can't handle the heat, get out of the kitchen.
> I've read plenty of monstersdad's comments and while he can be a d**k sometimes, he makes completely valid points for the most part. He cuts the crap and says it the way it comes to mind as opposed to sugar coating it, I can appreciate that in this sugar coating world we live in.
> Do I agree with everything he says? No. Do I think he is knowledgable about what he is talking about? Most of the time.
> Get over it. Sometimes people who stir the pot have more to offer to the table then people who follow like sheep.
> Sorry for all of the analogies lol


I never said i couldnt handle the heat. Monstersdad, on every board he's on, sings the same song.
Im sure ,years and years ago, people who fed hunting dogs did exactly what was posted.same as we folks ate a different way ( some of us, anyway) than we did back then. And we might even live a bit longer and a bit healthier now too.
I never ever said that anyone should feed raw, or feed a top of the line kibble.i myself feed fromm. I'm sure there are some folks who feed some that they feel are better and cost more.i home cook now, for rex, because he has had some liver issues and i try to give a diet that supports that.
You like the way monstersdad talks to people? Good for you. But im thinking there's some correlation to getting banned and his delivery.
Sorry if you felt my response was provocative and i can see where it was.but, i dont tell folks they're wrong for wanting to feed a particular way. I also dont tell folks they dont know what they're talking about. Nor do i say herbalists will kill dogs one day. I dont tout any one dog food, for whatever the reason.
I can go on, but what for?
And oh yeah, by the way, i have nothing to 'get over'.


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## Jacksons Mom (Jun 13, 2010)

I always find it fascinating to find out about how dogs were raised many years ago.

But just because nowadays we have more access to better medical care for our pets, and they have more opportunities, and are treated like family doesn't mean we're currently doing it 'wrong' and shouldn't take advantage of modern day medicine when we can. I do think over-vaccinating is a huge problem, but I will continue to spay/neuter my pets, out of personal preference. 

I'm not saying that your grandpa didn't love his dogs, obviously he did. I'm speaking generically now. But in today's world, I could never imagine have a kennel full of dogs, it's just not my thing. I've grown up with dogs and they've all been members of our family, lived in our home, slept in our beds, shared our lives with us. Just like I wouldn't ever go to a breeder who keeps their dogs like this. I'm not saying their mis-treated, or abused, or whatever, it's just not what I prefer. I look for dogs who have been raised under foot, inside of a home, as part of the family.

But I respect people who raise dogs in other ways. There's nothing wrong with it so long as no animals are being abused or harmed. I mean, my stepdad and moms 22lb cockapoo was a farm dog through and through. Believe it or not. She was left outside all the time (3 acres, unfenced, 90 acres farmland behind us) because she never wanted to come inside. She was free roaming, came and went as she pleased, was fed whatever from the grocery store (sometimes they would forget to buy her food for days), and barely saw the vet. She did sleep in my moms bed at night most of the time. She was very well loved, we all cared for her deeply, but I never agreed with how my step-dad let her just roam around. Well, of course, the inevitable happened and she was hit by a car at 4 years old. My mom was heart-broken and as was I. These are risks I'd never be willing to take with Jackson. 

Jackson's teeth are getting a little grimy again (I began slacking, didn't brush for 2 months, and it's showing unfortunately), so he's getting a professional dental next week. My stepdad thinks I'm nuts. "Cleaning a dogs teeth?!?" Uh, yes. I like to take care of his hygiene, and I love that the option is available to me. 

People never used to brush their dogs teeth, hardly gave them baths, and the like. I enjoy taking top notch care of my dogs and don't just want 'the basic' because he CAN survive that way. I want him to always have the best care possible, and I don't think there's anything wrong with that even if 'back in the day' these things were never done with dogs. I like that dogs have advanced in our society. They are extremely capable and smart beings who thrive in being a part of our family. And nothing makes me smile more than going on vacation, for example, and seeing a lot of families bringing their family dogs with them. And walking thru downtown Annapolis, there's going to be a dog at almost every outdoor patio table. I LOVE this. To me, my dog is my best friend. I don't choose things lightly when it comes to him. Sometimes I get the vibe from some posters here that 'ah, dogs are dogs'. I don't know how to explain it. But, I love letting my dog be a dog, but I also treat him as I would any other member of the family.

With that said, I do understand what Monsters and DaViking, etc, speak about when it comes to food. Really, when it comes down it, food is not really the end-all-be-all for most dogs. I do think things like exercise, vaccination schedules, etc, make a bigger impact. With that said, if food doesn't really matter much, then why NOT feed something that someone thinks is higher quality? If it's not going to do any harm....? I don't know....


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## BearMurphy (Feb 29, 2012)

Jacksons Mom said:


> Really, when it comes down it, food is not really the end-all-be-all for most dogs. I do think things like exercise, vaccination schedules, etc, make a bigger impact. With that said, if food doesn't really matter much, then why NOT feed something that someone thinks is higher quality? If it's not going to do any harm....? I don't know....


I actually think what you feed your dog IS really important. My dog gets consistent exercise and training regardless of what I ever fed him but when I changed his diet to what I feed now he looks and appears to feel much better overall.

Here's another way to look at it...if you fed your active dog low protein kibble would it suffer from low muscle mass and have a harder time recovering from injuries?

I'm not saying food is the only factor in optimal health, but I do think an important piece of the puzzle which includes exercise, medical care, etc

Regarding the OP's comments about how hunting dogs kept in a kennel were fed....i'm sure her grandpa took very good care of his dogs but i'm sure it was harder to notice changes in his 30 dogs depending on how he fed them as long as they performed. Just a matter of #'s there. Although, I'm sure a foxhound doing it's job is happier than a couch potato getting fed home cooked food......so I guess when you look at it from the dog's perspective what they are fed is the least important aspect of their life


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## brindle (Mar 14, 2013)

Jacksons Mom said:


> I always find it fascinating to find out about how dogs were raised many years ago.
> 
> But just because nowadays we have more access to better medical care for our pets, and they have more opportunities, and are treated like family doesn't mean we're currently doing it 'wrong' and shouldn't take advantage of modern day medicine when we can. I do think over-vaccinating is a huge problem, but I will continue to spay/neuter my pets, out of personal preference.
> 
> ...


I guess I may be one of those "dogs are just dogs" kind of people. Don't get me wrong- I care deeply about my dog but its not to the point where I consider her a fuzzy human as a LOT of people tend to do. I think when this humanization begins to occur, you minimize the dog and maximize the anthropomorphization. 
My dog is a dog. Sometimes she has work to do. Sometimes not. Does she get the best care one can afford. Yes. Would I be willing to sit around for hours cutting up meat for her to get "the best" (questionable), nope. 
She is my friend. She is my pet. She is important. But honestly-- I have other things in my life that I prioritize to a much higher level then my dog. 
Dog ownership has become another form of idolatry. Dog worship almost. It kind of bewilders me when an animal has more rights or considerations then our human counterparts... that's just me. When I will not spend 6 dollars per pound on organic meat for my children, I sure as hell won't on a dog. 
Feed the best you can, whatever that is. Also consider what the DOG does best on... not on what you feel morally OBLIGATED to feed. 
Dogs are opportunists and will generally thrive on whatever is being fed as long as the animal is not being pumped full of chemicals on a constant basis or have a genetic predisposition to illness.


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## brindle (Mar 14, 2013)

bett said:


> I never said i couldnt handle the heat. Monstersdad, on every board he's on, sings the same song.
> Im sure ,years and years ago, people who fed hunting dogs did exactly what was posted.same as we folks ate a different way ( some of us, anyway) than we did back then. And we might even live a bit longer and a bit healthier now too.
> I never ever said that anyone should feed raw, or feed a top of the line kibble.i myself feed fromm. I'm sure there are some folks who feed some that they feel are better and cost more.i home cook now, for rex, because he has had some liver issues and i try to give a diet that supports that.
> You like the way monstersdad talks to people? Good for you. But im thinking there's some correlation to getting banned and his delivery.
> ...


What I was referring to was the Twinkie statement. If you didn't want opposition I don't know why you would make such a provocative statement. I'm sure none of us here feed their dogs (or kids) Twinkies. 

There are many herbs that can and will kill dogs. 

I don't know monstersdad, but he speaks plainly and bluntly and yes I can appreciate that.


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## Jacksons Mom (Jun 13, 2010)

brindle said:


> I guess I may be one of those "dogs are just dogs" kind of people. Don't get me wrong- I care deeply about my dog but its not to the point where I consider her a fuzzy human as a LOT of people tend to do. I think when this humanization begins to occur, you minimize the dog and maximize the anthropomorphization.
> My dog is a dog. Sometimes she has work to do. Sometimes not. Does she get the best care one can afford. Yes. Would I be willing to sit around for hours cutting up meat for her to get "the best" (questionable), nope.
> She is my friend. She is my pet. She is important. But honestly-- I have other things in my life that I prioritize to a much higher level then my dog.
> Dog ownership has become another form of idolatry. Dog worship almost. It kind of bewilders me when an animal has more rights or considerations then our human counterparts... that's just me. When I will not spend 6 dollars per pound on organic meat for my children, I sure as hell won't on a dog.
> ...


I mean, I don't sit and cut up organic meat for my dog either. I hardly cook for myself, you think I'm gonna be cooking for my dog? lol... no.

I'm not even really talking about food though. Just... I don't know, sometimes I get this matter-of-fact vibe from posters like monstersdad for example. I don't even think I've heard him talk about his own dogs? I just hear 'kennel dogs' this and 'kennel dogs do best on these foods' that. I just... don't look at dogs in this way. I look at them as individuals.

My whole phone consists of probably 85% pics of Jackson, lol. I do think about him first and foremost when it comes to my life, I can't not. I can't just up and go on vacation without consideration of where he's going to stay (I won't board him, so my dad watches him), or if he's going to come with me, etc. I can't go out to dinner or out to a bar after work because I have to come home first, and it's not even just to let him out to potty, I enjoy being with him, I enjoy training with him, and spending time with him. Admittedly, I don't have children, so he IS like my child, but he's very much a dog. I don't carry him around in purses, or dress him up for no good reason (okay, I do sometimes torture the dog for funny photos or holidays), but he gets to run, he gets to roll in mud, he gets to swim, and dig, and get dirty. He's very much a dog, but he is an equal member of this family. He's more than just a dog to me. He's truly a friend, a companion. We've formed our bond through mutual trust and respect. And I can't imagine just thinking of him as just another ole' dog. He's so much more special than that -- his little personality just cracks me up. Sometimes I swear he's human, lol. The way we "communicate" is so awesome. I just love it.

And I'm not saying that those dogs who are "just dogs" are unhappy. I've known lots of friends and family who have dogs that do nothing but cuddle with them every once in a while, get let out in the yard, and fed twice a day. They're loved, but that connection and bond is not really quite "there". And I'm just saying for ME personally, I value my dog very greatly, so I don't think there's necessarily anything wrong with going above and beyond, even if it's maybe not necessary, etc. It's somewhat of a hobby of mine to research dog-related things, food, sports, research, etc, and yes, I always want what is best for my dog.

Ok, I'm all over the place right now. Ramble over.


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## Kassandra (Jun 6, 2012)

I also love hearing about how dogs were fed years ago, when kibble wasn't really a "big deal" as it is today.

I don't think NewfieAussie was trying to start a discussion on how you should be able to feed these types of things without criticism (or maybe they were, I don't know?)

My grandfather never had more than 2 dogs at a time. He liked spending time with them and he always said with more dogs than that he wouldn't be able to "get to know them properly," as he had a farm too and liked to spend time with each of his animals.. Even the ones to be slaughtered for meat he cared for so well and made sure they had everything they needed and were HAPPY. He is without a doubt where I got my love for animals. His dogs were all outside dogs, they came inside during bad storms, but that was mostly because my grandmother couldn't bear to see them out in the snowy cold. They slept in the barn with the cows during the night and were outside running the fields all day. They helped him with his chores and he hunted with them during bird season (he always had setters of some type - I think this also comes into play with me :smile: ).

They were fed whatever scraps they had leftover from supper, however much or little that may be. I assume some nights they didn't eat much at all, maybe some nights they ate nothing. He boiled it all up in a pot and made a mush, threw a few bones in there and that was that. Sometimes they had no meat in their suppers at all because it was all eaten with supper. They were also fed raw meat, if a calf died during birth, or if some of their meat went bad, etc. They always had fresh bones to chew on. This is still how his current dog is fed, though she usually gets raw meat with a side of potatoes or whatever they had leftover from supper with about a half cup of dog food mixed in. She is healthy as a horse. 

I personally think my grandfathers dogs had pretty good lives. Animal nutrition was NOT a big thing back then. These people didn't know any better. At least they were being fed, hey? I don't see much wrong with what your grandfather fed his dogs, either. I do see a little bit of a problem with that number of dogs, but that's just my personal preference and I guess if you can care for that number of dogs properly then who am I to say you can't have them...? But like I said, animal nutrition wasn't a big thing back then. Most of the more popular kibbles back then were worse than what he had been feeding, IMO.


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## Kassandra (Jun 6, 2012)

brindle said:


> What I was referring to was the Twinkie statement. If you didn't want opposition I don't know why you would make such a provocative statement. I'm sure none of us here feed their dogs (or kids) Twinkies.


I happen to love twinkies.

And my dogs always get 1 each when I get a package (there are 3 in a pack). :wink:


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## brindle (Mar 14, 2013)

Jacksons Mom said:


> I mean, I don't sit and cut up organic meat for my dog either. I hardly cook for myself, you think I'm gonna be cooking for my dog? lol... no.
> 
> I'm not even really talking about food though. Just... I don't know, sometimes I get this matter-of-fact vibe from posters like monstersdad for example. I don't even think I've heard him talk about his own dogs? I just hear 'kennel dogs' this and 'kennel dogs do best on these foods' that. I just... don't look at dogs in this way. I look at them as individuals.
> 
> ...


I hope I didn't offend you...?
I do love my dog but she is more bonded to my husband. I have had dogs that I have bonded with very deeply, such as what you are describing- I understand where you are coming from  I have a bond like that with my cat LOL.


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## bett (Mar 15, 2012)

brindle said:


> What I was referring to was the Twinkie statement. If you didn't want opposition I don't know why you would make such a provocative statement. I'm sure none of us here feed their dogs (or kids) Twinkies.
> 
> There are many herbs that can and will kill dogs.
> 
> I don't know monstersdad, but he speaks plainly and bluntly and yes I can appreciate that.


i know what you were referring to. not confused at all. i never said i didnt want opposition, as you call it. 
i dont know what anyone here chooses to feed their kids but plenty of kids are still eating twinkies or other crappy snacks.
and i dont know if you read the post regarding the herb statement but it is well known that there are herbs, plants, mushrooms (and the list goes on and on) that can kill dogs. that really wasnt the point.

yes, monster'sdad is blunt, and i'm glad you can appreciate that. that's not what i'm referring to, when i refer to monstersdad's delivery.
not at all.
blunt isnt rude.
it's not what he says, rather the delivery.


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## brindle (Mar 14, 2013)

bett said:


> i know what you were referring to. not confused at all. i never said i didnt want opposition, as you call it.
> i dont know what anyone here chooses to feed their kids but plenty of kids are still eating twinkies or other crappy snacks.
> and i dont know if you read the post regarding the herb statement but it is well known that there are herbs, plants, mushrooms (and the list goes on and on) that can kill dogs. that really wasnt the point.
> 
> ...


Then why don't you put him on an ignore list?


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## bett (Mar 15, 2012)

brindle said:


> Then why don't you put him on an ignore list?


are you kidding me?

i dont think i need your advice regarding him.or anyone else on the board. i'm a big girl, and can take care of myself. very well, actually.
as he takes care of himself.


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## brindle (Mar 14, 2013)

bett said:


> are you kidding me?
> 
> i dont think i need your advice regarding him.or anyone else on the board. i'm a big girl, and can take care of myself. very well, actually.
> as he takes care of himself.


I'm just not getting your point. 
You single people out that you dislike (or dislike the way they come across), then you make provocative statements almost to.... entice these select members into an argument. 
Then you complain about their rebuttal comments. 
But you won't put them on an ignore list. 
What is this contributing? Oh I know... kids eat Twinkies. I appreciate the information and I'll lock it away in my brain to possibly use constructively at another time. Thank you.


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## Jacksons Mom (Jun 13, 2010)

brindle said:


> I hope I didn't offend you...?
> I do love my dog but she is more bonded to my husband. I have had dogs that I have bonded with very deeply, such as what you are describing- I understand where you are coming from  I have a bond like that with my cat LOL.


Oh, no, didn't offend me at all! It was just something I've noticed and been wanting to say for a while. I guess its just a matter of difference in personalities. I know not everyone is going to look at a dog the same way I look at Jackson, doesn't mean they don't love 'em. It's just such a different world to me.

I do find it fascinating though. I love learning about old family pets (my grandma speaks fondly of all her family dogs growing up), etc... it's interesting to me to see how things change over the years, but some stay the same...


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## monster'sdad (Jul 29, 2012)

brindle said:


> I'm just not getting your point.
> You single people out that you dislike (or dislike the way they come across), then you make provocative statements almost to.... entice these select members into an argument.
> Then you complain about their rebuttal comments.
> But you won't put them on an ignore list.
> What is this contributing? Oh I know... kids eat Twinkies. I appreciate the information and I'll lock it away in my brain to possibly use constructively at another time. Thank you.


There are dramatic double standards on these forums. People recommend things that are known frauds to downright dangerous and when you oppose them you are the bad guy and rude and insensitive. Or they make statements that are factually incorrect and when you point it out you are demonized and get warnings from the moderators.


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## brindle (Mar 14, 2013)

monster'sdad said:


> There are dramatic double standards on these forums. People recommend things that are known frauds to downright dangerous and when you oppose them you are the bad guy and rude and insensitive. Or they make statements that are factually incorrect and when you point it out you are demonized and get warnings from the moderators.


While I'm entertained by some drama (as long as its relatively innocent) I don't understand people who provoke and then run. It makes no sense. 
Contribute/debate but don't provoke someone and then get mad when they make a rebuttal. Or when someone points out that you may be acting provocatively...?


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## bett (Mar 15, 2012)

brindle said:


> I'm just not getting your point.
> You single people out that you dislike (or dislike the way they come across), then you make provocative statements almost to.... entice these select members into an argument.
> Then you complain about their rebuttal comments.
> But you won't put them on an ignore list.
> What is this contributing? Oh I know... kids eat Twinkies. I appreciate the information and I'll lock it away in my brain to possibly use constructively at another time. Thank you.


i certainly was not provoking monsters dad. if that's how you read it, that's ok but not my agenda at all. i was merely responding (why i'm even trying to explain this to you is baffling,even to me) to a poster who was talking about the old days, and how his grand dad fed his dogs. was it a sarcastic response? ok, i'll give you that.

i dont need to single out monstersdad or anyone else.
and honestly, this conversation, between us, is ridiculous.
i'm sure you will stick around, and follow the posts. 
have fun, put who YOU want on ignore, and i'll keep posting the way i like to.
but never rudely even if i think one is a total fool.


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## brindle (Mar 14, 2013)

bett said:


> i certainly was not provoking monsters dad. if that's how you read it, that's ok but not my agenda at all. i was merely responding (why i'm even trying to explain this to you is baffling,even to me) to a poster who was talking about the old days, and how his grand dad fed his dogs. was it a sarcastic response? ok, i'll give you that.
> 
> i dont need to single out monstersdad or anyone else.
> and honestly, this conversation, between us, is ridiculous.
> ...


The bold makes about as much sense as our entire conversation. Good luck with that eace:


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## bett (Mar 15, 2012)

monster'sdad said:


> There are dramatic double standards on these forums. People recommend things that are known frauds to downright dangerous and when you oppose them you are the bad guy and rude and insensitive. Or they make statements that are factually incorrect and when you point it out you are demonized and get warnings from the moderators.


i'm guessing sal, that you are directing some of that statement to me. because i used chinese herbs to successfully pull my boy out of a toxic liver situation. may you never encounter one, like i had, from toxic food. but as far as i can tell, i hardly tell anyone else what to do. i let them know what i have done since i'm not a vet, or a nutritionist-i dont go there.
my expertise was working with the emotionally disturbed. funny, right?
you arent a bad guy as far as i can tell from a chat board. just rude sometimes, and i think you know that and like that about yourself. otherwise, your delivery would be a tad bit different. and.... i've never been known to run from you or anyone else-either on this board or any other. doesnt mean i wont let you know when i think you're rude.

and it's kinda silly talking about double standards, and getting warnings from moderators, because how many moderators, on how many boards have done this to you?

c'mon sal, you're hardly the victim. not your style at all.


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## bett (Mar 15, 2012)

brindle said:


> The bold makes about as much sense as our entire conversation. Good luck with that eace:


thinking and saying are completely different .


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## brindle (Mar 14, 2013)

bett said:


> thinking and saying are completely different .


What? You just said it on a public forum??? You are a confusing person...


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## bett (Mar 15, 2012)

brindle said:


> What? You just said it on a public forum??? You are a confusing person...


I made a blanket, general statement. I didnt say any particular person was a fool.so please, do not interpret it that way.
No matter what forum i am on, i am always NOT rude, nor do i call names.
I hope that eliminates any confusion, regarding that statement i made.
There's a difference.
Fortunately, when on a forum, no one can see thru the computer to see anyone's expression.


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## brindle (Mar 14, 2013)

bett said:


> I made a blanket, general statement. I didnt say any particular person was a fool.so please, do not interpret it that way.
> No matter what forum i am on, i am always NOT rude, nor do i call names.
> I hope that eliminates any confusion, regarding that statement i made.
> There's a difference.
> Fortunately, when on a forum, no one can see thru the computer to see anyone's expression.


Ok bett. No harm done  
just some good natured sparring.


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## bett (Mar 15, 2012)

brindle said:


> Ok bett. No harm done
> just some good natured sparring.


Perfect.
Consider this a handshake!


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## brindle (Mar 14, 2013)

bett said:


> Perfect.
> Consider this a handshake!


:fencing: lol


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## riddick4811 (Nov 2, 2011)

I posted these a while back on the picture forum- but these dogs were fed Ol Roy- lived primarily outside, no heartworm prevention, little no vaccines, males were all intact, some of the females were spayed. They hunted hogs and would run all night and still have the energy to tackle and fight a 300lb boar. Sparky and Peanut both lived into their teens as did many of the others hunting dogs my dad had if they weren't killed by a hog. 

Sparky and his daughter Peanut- both Black Mouth Curs. Both of them parvo survivors too with home treatment. 









They were loved dogs and Sparky got the most attention as he was obsessed with me even when my Mother was pregnant with me, he would lay with his head on her belly and once I came home from the hospital, if he wasn't hunting, he was with me. Sparky also ate a lot of grill cheese sandwiches. That was his favorite treat. 



















This was my first dog, I picked her out when I was 3. She live into her teens eating Ol Roy and then later on Pedigree. She lived outside most of the time b/c she preferred being outside. She died of old age sleeping in her dog house. She was never spayed either, no heartworm, and minimal vaccines.


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## brindle (Mar 14, 2013)

riddick4811 said:


> I posted these a while back on the picture forum- but these dogs were fed Ol Roy- lived primarily outside, no heartworm prevention, little no vaccines, males were all intact, some of the females were spayed. They hunted hogs and would run all night and still have the energy to tackle and fight a 300lb boar. Sparky and Peanut both lived with their teens as did many of the others hunting dogs my dad had if they weren't killed by a hog.
> 
> Sparky and his daughter Peanut- both Black Mouth Curs. Both of them parvo survivors too with home treatment.
> 
> ...


All gorgeous, healthy looking animals! Fascinating...


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## riddick4811 (Nov 2, 2011)

Also- the hunting dogs raised and whelped their pups naturally on the same diet and outside too! No whelping boxes or anything. Not saying I agree with how it all was, but different times. Dogs were looked at differently. 

Also- not to do with nutrition- but I feel the dogs had better temperaments back then. Dogs with shady temperaments where shot, not taken to therapist! 

As a child, I messed with all the pups. Here is one having to play in my playhouse with me. The Mamma dogs didn't mind me the slightest and my parents didn't worry about them biting me for being around their puppies. 










I ran around as a toddler outside with dozens of hunting dogs. Pit bulls, curs, hounds, Rottweilers, Doberman guard dog from my Dad's work that got hurt and my Mother took care of him and he became a pet. My Mother also kept several mini Dachshunds and a Mini Poodle. I grew up in a dog pack!


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## monster'sdad (Jul 29, 2012)

Years ago dogs were fed like they evolved, on garbage.


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## NewfieAussie (Feb 19, 2013)

I'm back, having been with my husband, daughter and two of our four dogs on an outing.

I think each and every one of the people here on this forum would have been drawn to my grandpa, he was as much a dog lover as I believe everyone on this forum is. He was a great story teller, people would always be drawn to him, he was kind, smart and knew dogs, period. He would be 105yrs old if he was alive today.

They don't make them like that anymore. I am new here, yes. But what I am most surprised about is how a group of people that care about and enjoy dogs and have them be such an integral part of their lives can be so mean to each other.

Grandpa spent hours and sometimes all day long at his dog pen. He would take them out individually to pet, talk to, checked over their eyes, ears, pads ect. He had a lot of dogs so they could rest between hunts. He only hunted two or three at a timeThey were probably more cared for than most people could imagine. Their pen was huge, they could run on thousands of acres, house was warm in winter and cool in summer.

I am new here, yes, but I have read back over the last few years of posts. This is one smart group of people with a common interest....feeding and caring for dog. I am so surprised at how mean people are to each other. Monster is smart and I have learned LOTS from him, DaViking is so brilliant, Liz is smart and teaches so much as are the majority of the people here. Both raw and kibble feeders. I enjoy the colorful personalities and people saying what they think but no sense being mean to each other. I checked out one busy forum but it was so dull, nothing scientific discussed, just" I like Fromm" Blah blah blah. This group is lively and not a bunch of followers.

That's all i have to say. Good Night.


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## bett (Mar 15, 2012)

Riddick- your dogs were beautiful.

And NewfieAussie-your memories of your grandfather are priceless. I hope my grandchildren will speak of me, they way you speak about him.


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## PDXdogmom (Jun 30, 2010)

Thanks NewfieAussie for sharing your memories. I found it fascinating. I think a number of us remember how farm or country dogs lives were especially different than most dogs' lives today. Even city dogs back in the 1950s were mostly fed leftovers from the kitchen. The kibble companies had not made their sweep yet with marketing the perfectly well-balanced food in pellet form.

My mother talked about growing up on an Iowa farm back in the 1920s and 30s. The farm dog, some kind of shepherd, mostly lived outside except during extremely bad weather. It ran around all day as chores were done outside and my mother played games ait held a place above the farm stock but below the human family in the house.


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## brindle (Mar 14, 2013)

My grandparents had a dog named Gypsy during the 60's. This dog was fed table scraps- potatoes, veggies, bone, breads. When they butchered sheep and chickens Gypsy got the guts. Apparently he was an amazing dog... appeared to be some sort of Fox terrier or Jack Russel mix. It got hit by a car  so I don't know how long he would have lived. 
No vaccines/not neutered. Outside 90% of the time.


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## Unosmom (May 3, 2009)

I have relatives that live overseas, since commercial dog food is expensive, the dog eats meat scraps/organs/bones or porridge cooked with meat stock and random meat/veggie scraps. He's very healthy, muscular and has nice shiny coat.


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## kevin bradley (Aug 9, 2009)

I grew up with a family who fed Grocery store Dog Food... I'd say the BEST was Pedigree. THE BEST. We had a Rottweiler... a damn ROTTWEILER live to about 13-14. I had a stray Lab Mix live to at least 17-18. FACT-I found her my senior year of high school in 1989 and I put her to sleep in 2006 and she was NOT a puppy when I found her. We took in another Dog who was OLD when we got him, I swear he lived another 10 years. That Dog must have been at least 15-16 or more. And he was a BIGGER Dog. I will say that my Mom was diligent about doing whatever the Vet told her to do. If the Vet said they needed a shot, they got it.

Harry... he got Orijen, Evo, and a host rotation of other premium Foods. Riddled with Cancer at 10-12 years old. 

Go figure. Now anyone with any sense recognizes "OUTLIERS." Crazy statistical phenomenon that can't be explained. 

So EVEN with what I say above, I HAVE to believe that it IS important what our Dogs eat every day. But a GUARANTEE? Hell NO to the millionth degree.

I know they say Wolves don't get Cancer but from the statistics I can find, they also only live 6-10 years. Someone confirm this. I'm not claiming it to be 100%


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

Wolves in the wild don't live a long life because well, they don't get to go the vet when something happens, disease, broken limbs. I don't know how many times I've seen deer in the wild walking with a great limp, they will be the first to get hunted by prey.


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## monster'sdad (Jul 29, 2012)

Kevin,

SkeptiVet: Another version of the naturalistic fallacy in the quest for longevity.


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## kevin bradley (Aug 9, 2009)

monster'sdad said:


> Kevin,
> 
> SkeptiVet: Another version of the naturalistic fallacy in the quest for longevity.



yep, I get it, Monster. I won't bash raw feeders though. They are trying to do what is best for their Dogs. And isn't the main issue that some raw feeders aren't balancing their diets correctly?... IE-they are simply missing something? So if they supplemented more correctly, you would indeed endorse raw feeding?


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## kevin bradley (Aug 9, 2009)

whiteleo said:


> Wolves in the wild don't live a long life because well, they don't get to go the vet when something happens, disease, broken limbs. I don't know how many times I've seen deer in the wild walking with a great limp, they will be the first to get hunted by prey.


but certainly, White, not ALL of them get broken limbs. And from what I am seeing, it is pretty rare for ANY wolf to live much past 10 years in the wild.

In captivity, where I believe, they are fed DRY food... they routinely live to 15. 

I'm just regurgitating what I'm finding in research. Hell, I WANT there to be a better way. I wish I would have found something better years ago. I just cannot find any conclusive research that tells me its superior. 

Serious question...NOT rhetorical in any way... Does anyone have examples of Raw fed Dogs living abnormally long lives?


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## BearMurphy (Feb 29, 2012)

kevin bradley said:


> I grew up with a family who fed Grocery store Dog Food... I'd say the BEST was Pedigree. THE BEST. We had a Rottweiler... a damn ROTTWEILER live to about 13-14. I had a stray Lab Mix live to at least 17-18. FACT-I found her my senior year of high school in 1989 and I put her to sleep in 1996 and she was NOT a puppy when I found her. We took in another Dog who was OLD when we got him, I swear he lived another 10 years. That Dog must have been at least 15-16 or more. And he was a BIGGER Dog. I will say that my Mom was diligent about doing whatever the Vet told her to do. If the Vet said they needed a shot, they got it.
> 
> Harry... he got Orijen, Evo, and a host rotation of other premium Foods. Riddled with Cancer at 10-12 years old.
> 
> ...


I think that the chemicals we put in the environment & ourselves and some technological advances have increased the cancer rate among people and dogs and it impacts our genetics too. Any food you feed your dog whether it be kibble or USDA grade meat will be impacted by this.

I feed raw because maybe it's more concentrated in kibble or maybe kibble has more chemicals added to it than USDA meat. Whatever you believe my dog's cancer risk is higher than my parent's childhood dogs because of what we are doing to the earth so it's un-escapable at this point. If my dog gets organic meat he can still get cancer if the soil he plays in is full of chemicals or if there is poor air quality in my community.

I could only think it must be tough to raise children and worry about all the things you have to keep them away from so they don't get cancer or sick from what they are exposed to but you do your best with the knowledge that is available.


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## monster'sdad (Jul 29, 2012)

No there is no evidence. Cancer is largely a breed specific issue, made worse by neutering and overvaccinating. All dog breeds can become sick from cancer but the data is pretty clear that the real risk is genetics. I was reading a while back that Chow Chows are up to 12 times more likely to develop gastric cancer.

When you take a high risk breed like a Golden or Bernese Mountain Dog and you neutered it, you can pretty much set the calender for cancer.

Purdue just released some data showing how dangerous vaccines really are, well beyond what Dodd and Schultz have described.

You also have to realize that dogs are living longer, so cancer rates will rise just from that.

You have to weigh the cost of progress, years ago people and animals died younger from simple things like infections, now they die older from cancer.


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## riddick4811 (Nov 2, 2011)

I don't have a dog that has eaten nothing but raw their entire life, but Pongo has been raw fed for most of his life, except the last few years. He ate Pro Plan from 6 weeks until he was about 1 yr old and at that time, he got a bunch of pork fat out of the trash and spent a week at the vet with pancreatitis. He was then on a home made diet for about 1 yr and then switched to raw- BARF style and was on it with no kibble for about 6 yrs. Then due to other issues (no issues with the diet itself) went to kibble/raw for about a year and then did prey model raw for about 3 yrs. And the past 4 yrs he has eaten kibble and raw. Due to age and teeth (lost a lot when he was younger hunting rats- apparently ripping thru rotted boards and dry wall are not good on your teeth!) his raw is ground. I usually use chicken necks/backs for the bone portion and he LOVES beef heart and you have have to hide any offal as he hated it from the get go. He would eat beef heart until he exploded. Also loves lamb and goat and he is the only one I will buy it for as it is $$$! Loves fish too, but won't eat it raw. So he gets grilled or baked salmon as treats occasionally. 

He will be 16, October 1st. He is mix breed, small dog, 22lbs, 1/2 Jack Russell terrier (Mom) 1/2 something fluffy- believe American Eskimo. Neutered at 9 months of age. Minimal vaccines and had last vaccine 3 yrs ago and I refuse to vaccinate him again. He has a heart murmur and CHF, but is otherwise doing good. He is responding well to medicine and when in the mood can still go hiking and swim and has no qualms about jumping on one of the other dogs even Casper if the mess with him! He is all terrier in attitude! 

But honestly, while I do think feeding good quality food is important, I think genetics is the biggest key to longevity. Pongo was within a few months of being the same age as Zeus my Doberman and Casey my first Greyhound. They were all fed very close to the same diet, exercised the same amount, vaccinated the same and were practically inseparable those 3. Casey died first at age 7 to Osteosarcoma. Zeus died at 11 due to complications from bloat and cardiomyopathy. And we have Pongo still hanging on at almost 16. Granted he is a smaller dog, but still I think if he had been fed cheap food, he would still be here. Might just not be as happy with his diet!


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## monster'sdad (Jul 29, 2012)

Terriers as a group have the lowest cancer rates. I grew up with Jack Russells and English Setters and the link to genetics was quite clear. The setters were and are very troublesome. The terrriers amazing low care animals.

15 for a Jack Russell is quite common if not the norm, generally care free the whole time. I had one go to 19 on basic feed store dry food. She ate burnt hoof trimmings her whole life.

If you are looking for a particularly healthy dog, terriers tend to be the best. In a relative sense of course, for example, comparing apples to apples like a Giant Schnauzer with a Doberman, Rottweiler or Shepherd.


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## InkedMarie (Sep 9, 2011)

I wasn't allowed to have pets, except fish so I don't have the experiences a lot of you guys do. I didn't get my first dog until I was 27. He came from a Byb, no idea what he was fed but I fed him Eukanuba, which was high quality in 1987. He died at age 8 from Tudors in his chest cavity. A fox terrier, from a breeder, fed high quality food by me, died at age 9 from protein losing enteropathy and lymphangectasia. Tucker got sick at age 10 in June 2010. Died of trigeminal neuritis a month later. Ate very high quality food. I sometimes wonder if I should put Ginger on Pro Plan, will she live to be a teenager and not die of something "exotic"? 
Katie lived to be 14, cme to me at age 11, no doubt eating grocery store crap, judging by how she looked. Had to put her down due to ortho issues.
Maybe I'm on to something. Wish I could, but I can't. No, I'm trying pmr.


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## brindle (Mar 14, 2013)

monster'sdad said:


> Terriers as a group have the lowest cancer rates. I grew up with Jack Russells and English Setters and the link to genetics was quite clear. The setters were and are very troublesome. The terrriers amazing low care animals.
> 
> 15 for a Jack Russell is quite common if not the norm, generally care free the whole time. I had one go to 19 on basic feed store dry food. She ate burnt hoof trimmings her whole life.
> 
> If you are looking for a particularly healthy dog, terriers tend to be the best. In a relative sense of course, for example, comparing apples to apples like a Giant Schnauzer with a Doberman, Rottweiler or Shepherd.


So true. I'm planning for my next dog to be a Jack Russell. They are one of the best (and healthiest) breeds I have come across so far


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## riddick4811 (Nov 2, 2011)

Jack Russells are awesome. I have fostered some purebred JRT too. Rat Terriers too. Would love to have a Jadg or Patterdale one day. 

Pongo other than the pancreatitis attack back in 1998 and the time Zeus stomped on him and broke his leg, he never went to the vet. Never had any issues. Even at his age, his last bloodwork was perfect. Vet was amazed. 

Most expensive dog I ever owned was my Dobe. Spent $3000 the last 6 months he lived just to keep him alive and I would hate to add up for his entire 11 yrs- he started off with parvo at 9 weeks and it just went down hill from there. I would spend it again in a heart beat as he was by far the best dog I've ever owned, but he was high maintenance in the vet department. 

Greyhounds tend to be pretty healthy for a large breed except for cancer and heart is getting more issues popping up. Bone cancer is extremely prevalent with them. Lost 3 of them so far- 7 yrs, 11 yrs, and 15 yrs and one at 10 months to cardiomyopathy. Riddick's brother also died from cardiomyopathy and 2 closely related dogs died when put under for the dental and neuter by the rescue and necropsy showed it was their heart. Their line was a Irish outcross, I've not seen in much in the American dogs. But Greyhounds rarely suffer from any hip/knee/elbow problems like other large breeds. Also I notice they don't have a lot of allergies or skin issues either. Bad teeth and runny poop are the two most common complaints I hear and most of that is due to improper diet.


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## brindle (Mar 14, 2013)

riddick4811 said:


> Jack Russells are awesome. I have fostered some purebred JRT too. Rat Terriers too. Would love to have a Jadg or Patterdale one day.
> 
> Pongo other than the pancreatitis attack back in 1998 and the time Zeus stomped on him and broke his leg, he never went to the vet. Never had any issues. Even at his age, his last bloodwork was perfect. Vet was amazed.
> 
> ...


Yes I love Rat terriers too! My fondness for the JRT stems from having a pure bred female when I was younger, she was the most amazing dog I have ever owned. I miss her all of the time... (rip). One day I will have another!


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## lauren43 (Feb 6, 2011)

monster'sdad said:


> When you take a high risk breed like a Golden or Bernese Mountain Dog and you neutered it, you can pretty much set the calender for cancer.


I am very interested in this. If you have anymore information on it I would really love to read it. I have a hard time understanding how neutering could cause cancer so anymore information on the subject would be helpful


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## Jacksons Mom (Jun 13, 2010)

I love little terriers! I was at the dog park the other day and there was a 14yr old Cairn and a 15yr old terrier mix. Could not believe it when the owners told me .... these dogs were running around like puppies! I only hope that Mr. Action Jackson is still kickin' it like that at 15.


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## monster'sdad (Jul 29, 2012)

One of the reasons why Jacks are so healthy has to do with the JRTCA. In order to register a dog it must be a certain age (2?), it must examined by a vet according to JRCTA protocol and you must submit pictures for the Registration Committee to review.

Lauren43, UC Davis did the study. In any event, more people who know about neutering and the cancer link if the liberal tree huggers weren't so loud and intrusive on other people's lives.


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## kevin bradley (Aug 9, 2009)

what about Pits? they are Terriers. I've read they are pretty problem free.

Our shelters are filled with them in Michigan. I think thats what I'll do if I'm ever ready... just go get a Pit from the Shelter. Probably the best thing you could ever do anyway.


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## Herzo (Feb 5, 2011)

Kevin they can have skin problems. I think the blue ones are the worst however, I don't have any issues with Richter so far.


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## riddick4811 (Nov 2, 2011)

kevin bradley said:


> what about Pits? they are Terriers. I've read they are pretty problem free.
> 
> Our shelters are filled with them in Michigan. I think thats what I'll do if I'm ever ready... just go get a Pit from the Shelter. Probably the best thing you could ever do anyway.


They are a fairly healthy breed (or group of breeds). Skin problems in blues and white ones seem to be pretty common, allergies, demodex are common. More susceptible to parvo than some other breeds. Deafness in white ones or one with 2 different colored eyes. Also see a lot of cruciate ligament tears. And Ataxia is a problem- more with the Amstaffs I think than the APBTs.


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## monster'sdad (Jul 29, 2012)

Shelter Pits haven't been bred with best practices in mind so you see issues. They also are very active and athletic and need to be kept occupied. I make regular food donations to a rescue and the process to getting them into shapes for new homes is really a work of art. As mentioned, demodex is a real problem.

Kevin if I were you I would look at some of the bench or dual-line sporting breeds or hounds as a way to balance health, temperament and overall ease of training and care, fun as well. They are tough to beat. Especially where you live, it wouldn't be hard to find just the right balance for your lifestyle.


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## riddick4811 (Nov 2, 2011)

While I think shelter pit bulls one of the best choices out there, they are not for everyone. Like Monster mentioned, they are active and need daily exercise. Very powerful dogs for their size. Not always good with other animals. Not recommended to ever take them to dog parks or other places like that. Not sure what you lifestyle is like or what you are looking for in a dog so hard to make a recommendation. I foster shelter pit bulls and have for many years. I love them, it is really hard not too. I am fostering a 6 month old deaf pit bull now. She is awesome. If I had room for another permanent dog I would keep her. I still regret letting the last one I fostered go, but she is in a great home and I get pictures and know she is happy. Part of fostering, you get attached to some more than others.


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## doggiedad (Jan 23, 2011)

i have family and friends that had farms. their dogs, cats, and farm animals never
saw a Vet and they were fed whatever was butchered. they animals ate it and 
we ate it.


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## doggiedad (Jan 23, 2011)

how do you compare children eating twinkies to what a dog is fed? how do you
compare children to dogs?



bett said:


> yeah, lots of kids eat twinkies too.


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## doggiedad (Jan 23, 2011)

if you were Kevin you would do the samething Kevin is doing. lol. 



monster'sdad said:


> Shelter Pits haven't been bred with best practices in mind so you see issues. They also are very active and athletic and need to be kept occupied. I make regular food donations to a rescue and the process to getting them into shapes for new homes is really a work of art. As mentioned, demodex is a real problem.
> 
> >>>>> Kevin if I were you <<<<
> 
> I would look at some of the bench or dual-line sporting breeds or hounds as a way to balance health, temperament and overall ease of training and care, fun as well. They are tough to beat. Especially where you live, it wouldn't be hard to find just the right balance for your lifestyle.


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## Herzo (Feb 5, 2011)

Yes you do really have to keep them busy. Richter has gotten so much better but when we first brought him home he would chew everything. My trees my latis (sp) on my porch you name it. But I am lucky and can take them for long walks in the country and I put a pack on him.

We need to get a spring pole and get him to pulling all he wants to do is play, play, play. He is the first Pit we have ever had and we love him to death but he is very excitable luckily he doesn't seem to be at all mean but I still watch him very carefully as I don't want him to ever find out he can be.

He is just such a big doofas.


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## bett (Mar 15, 2012)

doggiedad said:


> how do you compare children eating twinkies to what a dog is fed? how do you
> compare children to dogs?



i wasnt comparing dogs to children actually. just poor eating to poor eating.
it's old, already .


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## lauren43 (Feb 6, 2011)

kevin bradley said:


> what about Pits? they are Terriers. I've read they are pretty problem free.
> 
> Our shelters are filled with them in Michigan. I think that's what I'll do if I'm ever ready... just go get a Pit from the Shelter. Probably the best thing you could ever do anyway.


I think the cancer #'s in pits has increased over the years (from experience not from real data)...My dog in particular (who is not pure anything) had an MCT removed at the ripe old age of 2. I know a couple of other ppl as well that have some issues with cancer in their pits (and mixes there of), not all of which life threaten but cancer none the less. Unfortunately for us it starting to feel unavoidable, the longer a dog lives, the higher its chances of getting cancer...


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## doggiedad (Jan 23, 2011)

i would eat twinkies but i wouldn't give one to my dog. lol.



Kassandra said:


> I happen to love twinkies.
> 
> And my dogs always get 1 each when I get a package (there are 3 in a pack). :wink:


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## NewfieAussie (Feb 19, 2013)

*Wow*



bett said:


> i wasnt comparing dogs to children actually. just poor eating to poor eating.
> it's old, already .


Bett, you say you were an assistant principle, so you should be interested in education. I was attempting to explain how an area of the US, where they did not even have electricity until the 50's took care of their dogs. They had outhouses for bathrooms and my grandpa and grandma rode horses to school. Grandma was one of the rare women that went to college in that area in the 30's. They did their Algebra homework by kerosene lamp. These foxhounds were well cared for the best possible, there was no kibble in the 30's & 40's back then in that area. And NO, twinkies were not invented.

Bett, you completly missed the point, how true dog people did what they could, the best they could to feed their dogs. When I was a kid in the 60's he would get a deer given to him by the hunters that came on his farm and killed a deer, he would turn a few foxhounds out at a time to eat raw deer meat. As a girl , he didn't want me to see the whole deer laying there being eaten and would guide me away from that area.

I wish everyone had the good memories I had with a great story teller grandpa and dog man, that cared the world for his foxhounds. I was merely attempting to share it, not be criticized by his use of cornmeal. They never caught the fox, it was the love of hearing the dogs run and recognizing the bark of who was in the lead. It was a social activity in addition to enjoying dogs. The dogs knew to not run a deer or coyote.

Grandpa was not only written up in Sports Illustrated but National Geographic too. Thanks you to those who enjoyed hearing about this time period in the history of feeding dogs in the Missouri Ozarks.


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## lauren43 (Feb 6, 2011)

brindle said:


> The absolute BEST she has done is on "mid-grade" dog food (Healthwise, Iams, Horizon Complete) with random toppers. She looks amazing, she has energy, she has gorgeous coat, insane amount of muscle for doing practically nothing all winter, small/compact stool....


I don't know why this bothers me but IMO Iams and Horizon are not on the same level..I don't know enough about Healthwise to comment on that.

Anyone who took Betts comment the wrong way needs to understand that her and Monsters dad don't always see eye to eye. It was not a comment about what the OP's Grandfather actually fed. From what I understand about Bett it was a simple off the cuff remark saying just because its on the market doesn't necessarily mean its good for you.


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## NewfieAussie (Feb 19, 2013)

Lauren, please read response # 26, Bett admitted she was not responding to Monster, but to me talking about the old days. This is getting crazy, but you should not defend her when she said she was talking about my post about my grandpa, not Monster.


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## bett (Mar 15, 2012)

NewfieAussie said:


> Bett, you say you were an assistant principle, so you should be interested in education. I was attempting to explain how an area of the US, that did not even have electricity until the 50's took care of their dogs. They had outhouses for bathrooms and my grandpa and grandma rode horses to school. Grandma was one of the rare women that went to college in that area in the 30's. They did their Algebra homework by kerosene lamp. These foxhounds were well cared for the best possible, there was no kibble in the 30's & 40's back then in that area. And NO, twinkies were not invented.
> 
> Bett, you completly missed the point, how true dog people did what they could, the best they could to feed their dogs. When I was a kid in the 60's he would get a deer given to him by the hunters that came on his farm and killed a deer, he would turn a few foxhounds out at a time to eat raw deer meat. As a girl , he didn't want me to see the whole deer laying there being eaten and would guide me away from that area.
> 
> ...



Yup, i was an assistant principal, and no, i didnt miss the point at all.
I commented, as if it is now, with what we know now. I never doubted the love and caring your grandpa had for his hounds. Not ever. Just that now, we feed so differently.so many more animal owners know the good and bad of what we feed. We're probably more aware of what is in our animal's food, than our own.
I even commented, later on in your thread, commenting on the wonderful memories you have.
I know things were different there, not only in that region, but all regions.my dad was one of several, and if anyone was late to the table, they might have missed supper.
I never heard what my grandfather fed a dog, if they had one at all. But you can be sure it wasnt dog food ( as we know it either). Im sure the dog ate whatever, if anything was left and maybe some bones(cooked).
So in spite of my comment, i did enjoy reading it and am glad you have such wonderful memories.
Not everyone is so lucky.my aunt, 17 yrs younger than my dad, told me she remembers my grandfather, drowning puppies, that their dog gave birth to. Not such a good memory.


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## bett (Mar 15, 2012)

lauren43 said:


> I don't know why this bothers me but IMO Iams and Horizon are not on the same level..I don't know enough about Healthwise to comment on that.
> 
> Anyone who took Betts comment the wrong way needs to understand that her and Monsters dad don't always see eye to eye. It was not a comment about what the OP's Grandfather actually fed. From what I understand about Bett it was a simple off the cuff remark saying just because its on the market doesn't necessarily mean its good for you.


At least i think you didnt feel it was more than one of my 'brief' comments. 
I was talking from today's perspective.
Only that and nothing more.
While i do agree, that in 2013, most folks( not all) feed differently, and feel differently.
I guess one gets used to my 'style' in time.if they want to.


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## NewfieAussie (Feb 19, 2013)

Bett, you need to get a new 'style' and be decent.


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## NewfieAussie (Feb 19, 2013)

The post was not about today, it was about the 20's through 70's as my 84 yr old mother and I recalled. I told her I was reading a dog chat forum and she told me what Grandpa fed during the depression when they were forced to move to town and he got his dogfood scraps from a butcher and how he fed corn meal and cracklin's. This is from my 84 yr old mother about how her Dad fed his dogs. We were having a good time talking about it so I decided to share it since I know nothing about todays kibble and am here to learn.


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## bett (Mar 15, 2012)

NewfieAussie said:


> Bett, you need to get a new 'style' and be decent.


Well, im probably not going to get a different 'style' and im sorry you dont find me decent.
Im not sure that's worse or better, than being called a jerk.

And again, i was aware that you were talking, not about today, but many, many years ago.


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## NewfieAussie (Feb 19, 2013)

Then why did you respond as if it was today? There was no kibble back then, there were no twinkies. They did not get Houn Dawg until the 50's or 60's which was cutting edge for the poor people in the hills. Before that it was cornmeal, milk. meat and lard. You don't have to get a different style, but I feel sorry for you. You must be miserable. This is about feeding dogs, not eating twinkies. NO ONE IS GOING TO RUN DOWN MY GRANDPA OR HOW HE FED HIS WALKER FOXHOUNDS. HE WAS AN AMAZING DOG MAN AND YOU, BETT COULD HAVE LEARNED A LOT FROM HIM, STARTING WITH HOW TO MAKE PEOPLE LIKE YOU.


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## Sapphire-Light (Aug 8, 2010)

I liked the story, and to Newfie support this is how many people still feed their dogs were I live 

Here in central america there are still many rural were there's areas without plumbing, electricity, asphalt roads or even phone lines.

People eat what they can have/get and the leftovers are for the animals, the people who feed kibble to their dogs are mostly located in cities


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## bett (Mar 15, 2012)

NewfieAussie said:


> Then why did you respond as if it was today? There was no kibble back then, there were no twinkies. They did not get Houn Dawg until the 50's or 60's which was cutting edge for the poor people in the hills. Before that it was cornmeal, milk. meat and lard. You don't have to get a different style, but I feel sorry for you. You must be miserable. This is about feeding dogs, not eating twinkies. NO ONE IS GOING TO RUN DOWN MY GRANDPA OR HOW HE FED HIS WALKER FOXHOUNDS. HE WAS AN AMAZING DOG MAN AND YOU, BETT COULD HAVE LEARNED A LOT FROM HIM, STARTING WITH HOW TO MAKE PEOPLE LIKE YOU.


I responded as if it were today because it is today.
When you are part of a forum, you may post, and not like every response.i do believe you are making more out of my response than i meant.
I've tried to explain myself mant times, and apparently you are choosing to believe that i was belittling your grandfather, even tho, i have said a few times, that it was not my intent.
Please, dont feel sorry for me. I'm very lucky, hardly ever 'miserable' and have a good life, great kids, husband and 3 nice dogs.
Im not sure i understand your last sentence but i dont think it matters.
Again, i was not trying to belittle your grandfather in any way.
I think ive tried to explain myself as best i can.

(And, perhaps not in all areas, but kibble was around in the late 1800's and twinkies in the 1930's.)


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## NewfieAussie (Feb 19, 2013)

Geez Bett, do you not understand that modern kibble was not available in the rural areas, they did not even have electrity, no paved roads, no telephones, no plumbing, just out houses, wood stoves, chickens and Walker foxhounds. So maybe your ancestors had kibble in New York the 1800's and your ancestors ate twinkies in the 30's, mine did not. They rode their horses to sell eggs to trade for flour and cornmeal. One of the nearby neighbors was Laura Ingalls Wilder after she after she moved to Missouri. Grandma taught 'Commerce' in Mansfield MO where she and Almonzo lived. When you write a history book the norm is not to respond in present day in the text if it is a book of history. When you are part of a forum, you may post and not like every response.


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## bett (Mar 15, 2012)

NewfieAussie said:


> Geez Bett, do you not understand that modern kibble was not available in the rural areas, they did not even have electrity, no paved roads, no telephones, no plumbing, just out houses, wood stoves, chickens and Walker foxhounds. So maybe your ancestors had kibble in New York the 1800's and your ancestors ate twinkies in the 30's, mine did not. They rode their horses to sell eggs to trade for flour and cornmeal. One of the nearby neighbors was Laura Ingalls Wilder after she after she moved to Missouri. Grandma taught 'Commerce' in Mansfield MO where she and Almonzo lived. When you write a history book the norm is not to respond in present day in the text if it is a book of history. When you are part of a forum, you may post and not like every response.



I do understand. I said " not in all areas".
And i didnt take your post, apparently, as if you were writing a history book.
Im not here to argue with you, or dispute anything you have said, or belittle anyone. I never said i didnt like your post.if anything, i said how nice it is, to have such fond memories of your grand pa.
I've said that many times.
Im thinking ive tried to explain enough times.
Im sorry, if you choose to be insulted.


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## NewfieAussie (Feb 19, 2013)

You win. I am tired of this. I have a husband, three kids, four dogs, two horses and 120 cows to take care of. Best wishes, Jenny


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## bett (Mar 15, 2012)

NewfieAussie said:


> You win. I am tired of this. I have a husband, three kids, four dogs, two horses and 120 cows to take care of. Best wishes, Jenny


I dont win.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Heated debates, conversations and arguments happen all the time online. I think a lot of emotion and emphasis is lost when reading the typed words rather than hearing them. A lot of times the message is read the wrong way on one side or both.

Either way, I enjoyed hearing about the stories and memories in this thread. Everyone have a good night and snuggle all your dogs!


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## lauren43 (Feb 6, 2011)

I think this thread has run it's course, we are not here to bad mouth other members and the topic has strayed rather far from its original topic.

Thread closed.


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