# Delta Society "bans" raw fed dogs from its program



## ziggy29 (Feb 1, 2010)

This just in from the Delta Society; thanks to Susan Thixton for the heads-up. Thought you raw feeders should be aware of this in case this is a group you support:

Delta Society - Raw Protein Diet Policy



> Over the past few years, the increasing use of raw protein diets and the health concerns and controversy generated have grown, not only between the public and veterinarians, but often within the veterinary profession itself.
> 
> After careful consideration of all of the known scientific facts, and on the unanimous advice of the Delta Society Medical Advisory Board, made up of internal medicine and public health experts from North America, the board of directors voted to *preclude animals eating raw protein foods from participating in Delta Society Pet Partners program.* This will be a phased program, with complete compliance structured to be in place by June 30, 2010.


An FAQ with a bunch of the usual bacterial hysteria follows this quote.


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

It's a shame, but to be blunt: their loss.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Um....what's the Delta Society???


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## ziggy29 (Feb 1, 2010)

danemama08 said:


> Um....what's the Delta Society???


They are an organization that trains and places service and therapy animals.


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## Ania's Mommy (Feb 8, 2009)

I don't get it... If all they do is train and place dogs, what do they care what they're eating? Will what they eat make them less good at their jobs?


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

I would just tell them I feed homecooked diet...which isn't the complete truth but I'm ok with that LOL


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## Ania's Mommy (Feb 8, 2009)

Oh I see now. Because "it is well known that animals fed raw diets (BARF or other) shed significant amounts of pathogenic bacteria, which studies have indicated may put some people at risk, as compared to pets being fed commercially prepared or cooked, home-made diets."

But I still don't get it. Where/how is this shedding occuring? From submerging my dog in a vat of raw meat for an extended period of time? I'll have to make sure we don't do that for four weeks prior to visiting immune compromised individuals.

Lame.


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## malluver1005 (Nov 15, 2009)

How are they gonna know if people are telling the truth? One can easily lie. :wink:


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## jdatwood (Apr 13, 2009)

That's just sad they'd do that and spread such misinformation


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## g00dgirl (Nov 18, 2009)

They mean shed in the feces. My vet tried to tell me that one too


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

ziggy29 said:


> They are an organization that trains and places service and therapy animals.


I MAY be misremembering but I don't think so. Delta Society has nothing to do with service dogs. If you own a dog and want to visit hospitals, schools, etc as a therapy dog, you would join Delta because they have a lot of places lined up for you to visit. They do have training classes that are not much different from any training class you would attend with your dog.


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

Ania's Mommy said:


> Oh I see now. Because "it is well known that animals fed raw diets (BARF or other) shed significant amounts of pathogenic bacteria, which studies have indicated may put some people at risk, as compared to pets being fed commercially prepared or cooked, home-made diets."


There was a study done a few years ago at Ohio State(I think) regarding shedding bacteria in stools by raw fed dogs. I was asked to participate in this study but declined because I could see from the beginning what they were trying to prove.

Anyway, If I remember correctly, they found that something like 70% of raw fed dogs shed salmonella in their feces. They also found that 35% of kibble fed dogs did the same. I'll bet Delta Society doesn't know this.

Also what the study doesn't show is that no one ever gets sick from this. Not the dogs, not the people living with them. I have fed raw for 8 years. I play with my dogs on the floor and get licked in the face quite often. Same with my wife and my grandchildren. No one ever gets sick. 

Perhaps if you handled feces then didn't wash your hands before you ate, it might be different. Or it might not.


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## xxshaelxx (Mar 8, 2010)

It's as easy as teaching your kids not to run outside and eat dog crap. -.- Stuff like this makes me mad. They were probably paid by the pet food companies to do this, otherwise they might not be so grossly misinformed. I hope a lot of people drop from their program because of this.


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## Doc (Jan 17, 2009)

RawFedDogs said:


> There was a study done a few years ago at Ohio State(I think) regarding shedding bacteria in stools by raw fed dogs. I was asked to participate in this study but declined because I could see from the beginning what they were trying to prove.
> 
> Anyway, If I remember correctly, they found that something like 70% of raw fed dogs shed salmonella in their feces. They also found that 35% of kibble fed dogs did the same. I'll bet Delta Society doesn't know this.
> 
> ...


Question:

If in fact the study found twice as much salmonella passed through raw feed dogs when compared to kibble fed, what can the raw feeders do to help the public understand what that exactly means? Or what is the significance between 70% and 35%? If I put on my medical "hat", i would say that raw feed dogs are twice as likely to pass salmonella thru their feces than non raw fed dogs, therefore, it must be safer to have non raw fed dogs in nursing and rest homes. (I'm playing the devil's advocate here so don't jump all over my ass).

I think to counter that logic, as a raw feeder, you need some sort of factual statement. I don't know, just trying to think my way thru this.


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## ziggy29 (Feb 1, 2010)

RawFedDogs said:


> Anyway, If I remember correctly, they found that something like 70% of raw fed dogs shed salmonella in their feces. They also found that 35% of kibble fed dogs did the same. I'll bet Delta Society doesn't know this.
> 
> Also what the study doesn't show is that no one ever gets sick from this. Not the dogs, not the people living with them.


If the info about salmonella in the feces is true, it *might* be a reasonable precaution to not place raw fed dogs in households where someone has a compromised immune system, but other than that, I think society is too germophobic. The immune systems, like the mind and the muscles, work best when they are exercised. Trying to live in a sterile "plastic bubble" is not doing a healthy immune system any favors.


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

g00dgirl said:


> They mean shed in the feces. My vet tried to tell me that one too


whew, it's a good thing I'm not out eating my dog's feces.


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## xxshaelxx (Mar 8, 2010)

Doc said:


> Question:
> 
> If in fact the study found twice as much salmonella passed through raw feed dogs when compared to kibble fed, what can the raw feeders do to help the public understand what that exactly means? Or what is the significance between 70% and 35%? If I put on my medical "hat", i would say that raw feed dogs are twice as likely to pass salmonella thru their feces than non raw fed dogs, therefore, it must be safer to have non raw fed dogs in nursing and rest homes. (I'm playing the devil's advocate here so don't jump all over my ass).
> 
> I think to counter that logic, as a raw feeder, you need some sort of factual statement. I don't know, just trying to think my way thru this.


We've been feeding dogs kibble for about fifty years now? Has anyone ever gotten salmonella poison from the 35% of dogs that have shed it in their feces? I think it's a viable question, but when you think about it, I've never heard of anyone getting salmonella from their dog's poop if they've fed kibble or raw, and plenty of immunocompromised people have had dogs as service/therapy dogs and never had problems before. You would think that, even if there were 35%, at some point, if they were even likely at all to get it, they would have.


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## Jordan S. (Feb 2, 2010)

ok so how are these people supposed to find evidence that you 
feed raw . I mean you feed your dogs in your home......



CorgiPaws said:


> whew, it's a good thing I'm not out eating my dog's feces.


Thats what I was thinking. Are people gunna be out there dunking their heads in it picking it up having poo poo fights?????


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

the fear mongering has to do with liability with immunocompromised patients.

having been one of those immunocompromised patients, i can tell you unequivocally that a dog's butt has been the least of the issues facing those of us in that situation.

it's such an easy fix to bring a smile to our faces.

wash your hands and bring wipes for the dog. wipe down his face, paws, and butt...for each room visited....

delta society. i've been reading about them across the boards...and this is patently ridiculous.

when someone is THAT immunocompromised, believe me, no one should be visiting.

but, do let's start with hospital or hospice or nursing home staff. when they make the comment -- oh, i'm just coming in to do this or that' as if that's a reason NOT to gown, glove or mask.....and my DH has to sit in front of the door to either keep them out or make them comply at 3 a.m.....there's more of a problem than salmonella dripping out of a dog's butt.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

RawFedDogs said:


> There was a study done a few years ago at Ohio State(I think) regarding shedding bacteria in stools by raw fed dogs. I was asked to participate in this study but declined because I could see from the beginning what they were trying to prove.
> 
> Anyway, If I remember correctly, they found that something like 70% of raw fed dogs shed salmonella in their feces. They also found that 35% of kibble fed dogs did the same. I'll bet Delta Society doesn't know this.
> 
> ...


i don't remember if your numbers are exactly right on, but your statement is right on. there was a study done...actually, quite a few....that support what you just said.

if anyone is interested, let me know and i'll post some of the studies...

for an organisation to tell ME that i have to feed my dog a certain way in order to be part of their organisation is their right as a private concern.

but, do they get federal funding? state funding? private funding? if so, can they make that determination without challenge? there are an awful lot of places that welcome therapy and service trained dogs and an awful lot of patients that need a free smile.


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## sassy (May 25, 2010)

*Delta?*

Therapy dogs do come into contact with very Ill people who have compromised immune systems in many cases. Cancer and Dying Patients. Also For Example if your dog has cancer and gets chemo- they cannot be on Raw. So it may be an over reaction and I feel it is, they are worried more about LIABILITY.
Service Dogs on the other hand - only for the most part come into contact with their handlers- they are NOT suppose to be handled in Public and do not go into Sterile Enviroments.


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

sassy said:


> Therapy dogs do come into contact with very Ill people who have compromised immune systems in many cases. Cancer and Dying Patients. Also For Example if your dog has cancer and gets chemo- they cannot be on Raw.


Says who? If your dog has cancer you want him on the healthiest food possible. That would be a prey model raw diet. My wife takes meds that suppresses her immune system to almost zero. She still feeds and interacts normally with our raw fed dogs and cats.



> Service Dogs on the other hand - only for the most part come into contact with their handlers- they are NOT suppose to be handled in Public and do not go into Sterile Enviroments.


I have seen no reliable study that indicates it is any more dangerous to interact with a raw fed dog than a kibble fed dog. Actually it's the other way around. Kibble fed dogs are more likely to make you ill.

And yes, service dogs do go into hospitals and doctor's offices. The ONLY place they are barred from is operating rooms.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

sassy said:


> Therapy dogs do come into contact with very Ill people who have compromised immune systems in many cases. Cancer and Dying Patients. Also For Example if your dog has cancer and gets chemo- they cannot be on Raw. So it may be an over reaction and I feel it is, they are worried more about LIABILITY.
> Service Dogs on the other hand - only for the most part come into contact with their handlers- they are NOT suppose to be handled in Public and do not go into Sterile Enviroments.


this is an FYI only...not meant to inflame, but posted with permission from the author, providing scientific data as opposed to anecdotal data and opinion:

Dear Delta Society,

While checking Google to investigate your claims of raw
protein causing a significant shed of pathogens in the dog's stool, I found
the largest amount of information on an internet search shows that dry dog
food is the biggest offender of carrying salmonella contamination:

http://www.webmd.com/news/20080915/s...et-food-recall

http://health.usnews.com/health-news...sorders/articl
es/2008/11/06/salmonella-outbreak-tied-to-dry-dog-food-continues.html

=http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/190762...r possible salmonella - Pet health- msnbc.com

Salmonella Outbreak Linked to Dry Dog Food - Health News | Current Health News | Medical News - FOXNews.com

http://pet-nutrition.suite101.com/ar...ood_recall_exp
anded

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...5/AR2008051502
363.html

Salmonella Prompts Tops, Pedigree Pet, Dog Food Recall

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/dog...e-salmonella-p
roblem

http://health.usnews.com/health-new...outbreak-linked-to-dry-dog-food.html?PageNr=2


One expert thinks contamination of pet food is likely to become more
commonplace.

"There have been problems with pet foods before," said Dr. Pascal James
Imperato, chairman of the department of preventive medicine
<http://health.usnews.com/health-news...008/05/15/salm
onella-outbreak-linked-to-dry-dog-food.html?PageNr=1> 

and community health at the State University of New York Downstate Medical
Center in New York City.

"If the food had any animal product in it, there could have been
contamination, or if it was being processed in a plant where they were also
processing animal product, then contamination can easily occur," he said.
"There is greater industrialization of the production of food products, both
for humans and animals, and these are complex processing systems. Therefore,
there is greater opportunity for contamination," Imperato said. "We are
likely to see many more of these problems."

Secondly, a large percentage of all dogs carry salmonella, regardless of
diet. This has been known for some time:

http://fsrio.nal.usda.gov/document_f...product_id=223

Animal-to-Human -- Salmonella can be acquired directly from pets (e.g. cats
and dogs), reptiles, and birds. The feces of pets, especially those with
diarrhea, contain Salmonella and humans can become infected if they do not
wash their hands after contact with pets or pet feces.15
<http://fsrio.nal.usda.gov/document_fsheet.php?product_id=223#15> The pets
may suffer Salmonellosis as a reverse zoonosis, with infection transmitted
from human-to-pet and subsequently back to other humans. Salmonella can also
be found in healthy dogs and cats at rates of up to 36 percent and 18
percent, respectively.52
<http://fsrio.nal.usda.gov/document_fsheet.php?product_id=223#52> 

Bravo! - Recall Information

Here's what the Merck Veterinary Manual says about Salmonella in pets:

"Many dogs and cats are asymptomatic carriers of Salmonellae. Clinical
disease is uncommon, but when it is seen, it is often associated with
hospitalization, another infection or debilitating condition in adults, or
exposure to large numbers of the bacteria in puppies and kittens." 2

To translate: Many dogs and cats carry Salmonella in their systems (as
evidenced by the presence of Salmonella in their feces), but they rarely
become ill. It is just a natural part of what lives in their GI systems.
When illness does occur it is usually associated with an already ill animal
who is already immune-compromised. Illness may also occur when young animals
are exposed to very high numbers of the bacteria. This might happen if a
puppy finds and licks the inside of an outdoor garbage can that has never
been washed and is teeming with bacteria. 

Research indicates that approximately 36 percent of healthy dogs and 17
percent of healthy cats carry Salmonella in their digestive tract.3 The
American Veterinary Medical Association (AVMA) agrees with these numbers.4
It is interesting to note that these numbers are based on kibble-fed dogs -
which means that Salmonella is a natural part of life for our pets
regardless of what they are eating. 

The resistance to illness in dogs from Salmonella is apparent in a study of
raw-fed dogs in Canada. In that study 16 dogs were deliberately fed
commercial raw diets contaminated with Salmonella. None of those 16 dogs
became ill. Additionally, only 7 of those 16 dogs shed Salmonella in their
feces.5 While it was not further studied, one might speculate that the 9
dogs who ate Salmonella-contaminated food but did not shed it in their feces
effectively neutralized the bacteria. 

Even the FDA, in the FDA Consumer magazine, acknowledges that healthy pets
rarely become ill from Salmonella contamination.6

2. http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/in...m/bc/20900.htm 
3. Hand, M.S., Thatcher, C.D., Remillard, R.L., and Roudebush, P. (2000)
Small Animal Clinical Nutrition. Mark Morris Institute. Pg. 36-42,188. 
4. http://www.avma.org/reference/zoonos...monellosis.asp 
5. Finley, R., et al. (2007) The Risk of Salmonellae Shedding by Dogs Fed
Salmonella-contaminated Commercial Raw Food Diets. Can Vet J. Vol 48 #1. Pg.
69-75. 
6. http://www.fda.gov/FDAC/departs/2000/500_upd.html#pigs 

It is also interesting to note that humans can transmit salmonella to dogs:

http://www.vetmed.wisc.edu/pbs/zoono...almonella.html

Dogs and cats may suffer salmonellosis as a "reverse zoonosis," with
infection transmitted from human-to-dog and subsequently back to other
humans. Similarly, outbreaks of Salmonella infections in large animal
teaching hospitals have been linked to the introduction of bacteria from
infected human personnel, with subsequent spread to animals and then back to
other human workers.

In one of the studies quoted on your website as part of your proof, in the
first article only ten dogs were used to test for salmonella. The authors
themselves state:

Preliminary assessment of the risk of Salmonella infection in dogs fed raw chicken diets Although these results
are suggestive, they are not statistically significant owing to the small
number of dogs studied. Larger numbers of dogs or multiple stool samples
from each dog might have allowed the results to reach statistical
significance. Unfortunately, the limited funding to this private clinic for
this study did not allow for the inclusion of more study animals or multiple
cultures from individual subjects. 

And, in another study:

The risk of salmonellae shedding by dogs fed Salmonella-contaminated commercial raw food diets

Since this study was an experimental trial with laboratory beagles, results
may not be completely indicative of what would be experienced with owned
dogs of various breeds. Determining that the raw food diet was the main
source of salmonellae shedding in owned dogs would be more complicated, as
they could be exposed to several other possible sources of salmonellae,
including other animals; other food items, including treats; the
environment; and their owners.

<http://www.asph.org/vetmed/ppt/lefebvre.ppt>
www.asph.org/vetmed/ppt/lefebvre.ppt

And information from your friends in Canada again. This is slide show that
has been prepared to show the dangers of raw fed foods for therapy dogs. It
was a great job of skewing the results. They show the high incidence of
bacteria found in 40 raw fed dogs stools, but somehow tend to downplay the
amounts found in dogs fed a dry diet. This study shows:

Raw fed dogs (40) Dry food fed dogs (156)

0 - for Vanomycin resistant enterococci 1 - for Vanomycin
resistant enterococci 
1 for Methicillin resistant S Aureus 8 - for Methicillin
resistant S Aureus 
5 for Clostridium difficile 40 - for Clostridium
difficile 
19 for Salmonella 12 - for salmonella
31 for E Coli 32 - for E Coli

While this study may show more Salmonella and E Coli in raw fed dogs, it
shows higher results for the bacteria Clostridium, Methicillin resistant S
Aureus and has Vanomycin resistant enterococci. And the amount of Salmonella
and E Coli, while not as high as raw fed dogs, is significant.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

Cont'd

My conclusion is that, in your hurry to label the raw diet as the culprit,
and eliminate its use from your volunteers in your program, you are only
putting the spotlight on the issue that all dogs can carry pathogens
regardless of diet . This could cause all dogs to be banned from use in any
health facility. In essence, I see your new rule as 'shooting yourself in
the foot'. I feel in your confidence and your bias of proving a raw diet
could spread pathogens, you forgot to do a full research on the issue.
Salmonella is everywhere, including dry dog food, the soil, pond water and
even from humans. Understand you are looking at narrow parameters that need
a more careful and extensive study on how pathogens are spread and how to
use sensible and effective prevention.

I don't see a problem with allowing dogs into nursing homes, hospitals or
hospices, as long as good hygiene is applied. That would include bathing the
dogs, insuring therapy dogs are flea and tick free, making sure the dog's
are properly exercised (ie pottied) before a visit, and carrying
sterilization equipment (bleach, bags and paper towels) in case of an
accident. All research points out pathogens are spread by stool or saliva.
That would mean not allowing the dogs to lick the clients, making sure the
coats and skin are recently bathed and trusting your volunteers. Your
volunteers are the backbone of your organization, and they do this loving
volunteer work without compensation and give the Delta group thousands of
volunteer hours. I hope you take this email in the light it was written, in
that sometimes, we need to look at any situation with more study and
thought, and understand the healing, joy and encouragement dogs give so many
people. Being a patient with serious illness and being away from home often
stifles recovery. Pets, as you know, bring hope, happiness and support to
begin the process of healing.

I hope you rethink your position on this matter, and continue to allow your
therapy dog work to bring joy to both your clients and your volunteers. My
interest in researching this and writing to you is in memory to my Ch
Blackwood Dante V Lyvngwerth CD and Ch Bourbon's Bravo of Blackwood, two
Rottweilers I owned who were the recipients of the American Rottweiler Club
TRUE award, for their many hours of therapy work. And yes, they both were
fed a raw diet. They both worked in the intensive care units of hospitals in
Tyler, Texas, for many years.

Lew Olson PhD Natural Health 

Author of, "Raw and Natural Diets for Dogs" 

Please note, you may repost my original response to them on other lists and
groups, you have my permission.

Lew


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

please feel free to wade through these studies....

i AM immunocompromised AND i have had cancer. I feed my dogs raw.

When in the hospital, i would have been less fearful of dogs than the staff.


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## sassy (May 25, 2010)

*Delta*

The assumption is that I agree-Banning Animals based on Diet wrong I was pointing out there concern right , wrong or indifferent is LIABILITY!

Samonella under normal conditions in Healthy Dog means ZERO! A dogs stomach normally kills any .
The lack of Bacteria in a Dogs Stomach in Compromised Conditions caused by Chemo Could Be Deadly.
Many times Patient have been made to Re-home their dogs before during and after transplants and Chemo . Rescues get calls all the time.
If you've ever had a Dog that has cancer and undergone treatment,(I chose not to treat my Senior Lab, Victim of Mast Cell Tumor)Currently have a friend whose dog has Lymphoma.I am assisting.
If you have a Dog undergoing Chemo it is Advised to Home-cook Diet , No Raw
I was merely stating conventional knowledge Whether you follow it or not is up to you.

Oh I have a SERVICE DOG currently in Training- So I KNOW EXACTLY WHERE MY DOG CAN GO!This being my second Service Dog.


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## sassy (May 25, 2010)

*SD*

I also don't think it matters the Delta Society isn't the Gov't and they would play Hell over turning the Rights under ADA. 
That one political argue I wouldn't want to start.
You posted a lot of info and as studies go there always are just as many for as against
Common Sense and Logic should always prevail- But since when do you see that in use?
Come - On- Why would anyone want to wash their hands!Paws! MUG!
Too easy.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

what you've stated about liability.....i most definitely agree with..


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## xxshaelxx (Mar 8, 2010)

If you think about it, more dogs shed salmonella while on kibble than raw, even if raw-fed dogs are more likely to shed it. You think, MAYBE one out of every one hundred dogs is fed raw. That would mean, out of 10,100 dogs, 3,500 kibble fed dogs would shed salmonella, as opposed to 70 raw fed dogs. So...are the risks really higher in raw fed dogs?


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

xxshaelxx said:


> If you think about it, more dogs shed salmonella while on kibble than raw, even if raw-fed dogs are more likely to shed it. You think, MAYBE one out of every one hundred dogs is fed raw. That would mean, out of 10,100 dogs, 3,500 kibble fed dogs would shed salmonella, as opposed to 70 raw fed dogs. So...are the risks really higher in raw fed dogs?


personally....if people wash their hands and carry 'wipes' for the dogs' faces, feet and butts as they travel room to room

....and all dogs should have fecals once every three months or so...realising there is always the possibility of false positives and negatives but doing a CYA for Delta or any other organisation....

then everything would be dandy.

all of the links i posted pointed to the probability that more dogs shed salmonella whilst on kibble than they do on raw....

so either ban ALL dogs...because dogs shed giardia too, which humans can get....

OR

wash hands, feet and doggie butts and faces....call it good and bring a smile to someone who is in isolation.


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## 3RingCircus (May 24, 2010)

*Raw Food With Compromised Immune Systems?*



ziggy29 said:


> If the info about salmonella in the feces is true, it *might* be a reasonable precaution to not place raw fed dogs in households where someone has a compromised immune system, but other than that, I think society is too germophobic. The immune systems, like the mind and the muscles, work best when they are exercised. Trying to live in a sterile "plastic bubble" is not doing a healthy immune system any favors.


So is this true? If so I might not be able to do this. My dh has RA and takes meds which compromise his immune system.


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## 3RingCircus (May 24, 2010)

RawFedDogs said:


> Says who? If your dog has cancer you want him on the healthiest food possible. That would be a prey model raw diet. My wife takes meds that suppresses her immune system to almost zero. She still feeds and interacts normally with our raw fed dogs and cats.


Well now, here is a different opinion. This is confusing.

I need to know for sure that my dh won't be compromised by us feeding raw. He takes several immune suppressing drugs and is about to add another one.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

3RingCircus said:


> So is this true? If so I might not be able to do this. My dh has RA and takes meds which compromise his immune system.


dogs shed all kinds of bacterias...including salmonella and giardia....so do humans......

but it's true of dogs on both kibble and raw...and i think that's what the point was....that delta is singling out raw feeders based on their own ignorance of physiology...

in all truth....nobody should ever go anywhere near anyone, since we all have staph on our skin....we shed e.coli in our own stools....

no one knows another person's hygiene habits....

delta society made much ado about something that could easily be dealt with without scaring the hell out of nice people.

the fda did the same thing about a month ago when it issued the statement that dogs should NEVER get any bones of any kind. EVER.

these blatant statements scare people...and the basis for these statements are not well thought out or even researched well.

in my humble opinion....delta society and the FDA opened mouths, inserted feet.

there are antibacterial wipes you can use when your baby is on meds. you can wipe down both dogs, including their butts, their mouths and feet.

this is what i do when i have to take my meds...and i've been doing this now for four years, which is three years and 10 months longer than i've been feeding raw.....


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

As long as you use precaution with feeding and cleaning up appropriately then there shouldn't be an issue. If you prepare meat for your own consumption it's really no different. Just don't let your dogs lick you in the face!


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## xxshaelxx (Mar 8, 2010)

Guys, she's wondering if a dog with an immunocompromised system would be effected by raw feeding. :wink:


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

xxshaelxx said:


> Guys, she's wondering if a dog with an immunocompromised system would be effected by raw feeding. :wink:


If the dog is immunocmpromised because of illness or other natural causes, raw feeding will benefit the dog. If its because of meds, raw probably won't help it but will still be good to feed.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

the articles that i've read recommend raw feeding to cancer dogs...i believe they are immunocompromised.

one of my sources for this is lew olson who holds a pHD in natural health...


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

xxshaelxx said:


> Guys, she's wondering if a dog with an immunocompromised system would be effected by raw feeding. :wink:


No. She is worried about her husband being immune compromised because he takes supressing drugs for RA.....


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

If I had a dog suffering from mystery illness, I would feed raw for optimum health. 
If I had a dog with cancer, I would feed raw for optimum health. 
If I had a perfectly healthy dog, I would feed raw to keep it that way. 
If I had a dog with cronic diarrhea and/or a sensitive system, I'd definately feed raw. 
If I had a service or therapy dog, I'd feed it raw. 
If I had a purple dog, I'd feed raw. 
If I had cancer, I'd feed raw. 
If I had small children, I'd feed my dogs raw. 
If I was on medication that compromised my imune system, I'd feed raw. 
I have a nearly non-existing immune system (the result of a year long battle with internal MRSA and intense antibiotic treatments) and I feed raw. 


...my point is that raw isn't only the best for a certain "type" of dog or situation. I absolutely respect that there are people out there who just don'twant to go raw, or that can't for whatever reason, such as location or whatnot. That being said, there is no breed, type, age, gender, size, etc. of dog that I would hesitate to feed raw. Raw is ideal for ANY dog of ANY size/ age in ANY living condition. Be it a therapy dog, housepet, agility dog, or anything else, raw is ideal. Again, not everyone wants to feed raw- it's a personal choice, I'm just saying I can't thik of a situation or kind of dog that would NOT benefit from a raw diet.


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## 3RingCircus (May 24, 2010)

xxshaelxx said:


> Guys, she's wondering if a dog with an immunocompromised system would be effected by raw feeding. :wink:


No, I worried about my husband who is immune compromised.

My dog should do fine.

I do remember my husband's doctor telling him to make sure he washes his hands after cleaning up cat feces. I gather this is the same principle.

As a retired RN, I learned years ago, the best defense against disease is to wash your hands for 30 seconds. My instructor in nursing school, Ms. Mead, actually had her group of eight students memorize the thirty steps to proper hand washing. The other students laughed at us and our routine. We're the only ones who passed that part of the nursing exam.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

What I have learned is that its pointless to wash your hands for less time than it takes to sing "happy birthday" three times in a row (in your head of course or you'll look like a tool LOL). And that what most people do after using the bathroom (get their hands wet and then just dry them off, maybe using a bit of soap for like 10 seconds) just feeds the bacteria instead of getting rid of them.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

3RingCircus said:


> No, I worried about my husband who is immune compromised.
> 
> My dog should do fine.
> 
> ...


I wish Ms. Mead had been teaching when i was in hospital and no one was taking any precautions.....


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