# why dog foods shouldnt be premoistened?



## nash_try (Jul 26, 2010)

My dog doesn't touch the food, whatever the brand, till i add some warm water or 1-2 spoons of milk.

I have read that some dogs foods shouldn't be premoistened, as there are chances of bloat.

My dog is medium sized.

I guess if something is preserved with citric acid, it shouldn't be premoistened. 

Sometimes it says, preserved with Ascorbic Acid, a source of Vitamin C. So can i premoisten such a food?

What is the exact criteria to avoid premoistening?


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## BoxerMommie (Jun 26, 2008)

Yep, that is the only criteria is no citric acid (which I've actually not seen in premium foods). Anything else you can add water to. You may want to try cold water and see if they'll eat it that way instead of warm but it's fine to moisten any other foods. I feed Taste of the Wild and add water for both of my dogs.


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## xxshaelxx (Mar 8, 2010)

I don't know about the bloat thing, but as for your dog not touching its food without adding that stuff, you should try some tough love. Just put the normal food on the ground for fifteen minutes, and if he/she doesn't touch it, pick it up and save it for the next meal. This will teach your dog not to be a picky eater, because if you pamper to his/her needs, then he/she will just learn to stick their nose up to it, and they'll get exactly what they want. Dogs won't starve themselves like cats will, so stick through it, and in a few days, he/she will eat what is in front of them. It can take up to five days, so don't be afraid. You're not starving your dog. You're giving it food, it's just choosing not to eat it. :wink:

Also, I don't know if you know, but dogs are lactose intolerant.


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## BoxerMommie (Jun 26, 2008)

xxshaelxx said:


> I don't know about the bloat thing, but as for your dog not touching its food without adding that stuff, you should try some tough love. Just put the normal food on the ground for fifteen minutes, and if he/she doesn't touch it, pick it up and save it for the next meal. This will teach your dog not to be a picky eater, because if you pamper to his/her needs, then he/she will just learn to stick their nose up to it, and they'll get exactly what they want. Dogs won't starve themselves like cats will, so stick through it, and in a few days, he/she will eat what is in front of them. It can take up to five days, so don't be afraid. You're not starving your dog. You're giving it food, it's just choosing not to eat it. :wink:
> 
> Also, I don't know if you know, but dogs are lactose intolerant.




I am a big believer in this too, however moistening their food does have benefits. Try eating dry cereal for breakfast...it isn't awesome. But on that as well, I adopted a GSD in March and yep, stuck to that philosophy. FINALLY day 6 arrived and he finally ate the dry kibble...about 45 minutes later he was pacing around, arching his back and proceeded to vomit almost all if not all of the food up. We continued to do this for another 3 days. I finally thought maybe he was sick he was a rescue so I put him on chicken and rice and he was fine, never puked had no problems no pacing, no back arching. I went back to kibble and bam same thing happened. So I finally added water to the kibble to make it softer and he has no problems with this. It got to the point he wouldn't eat dry food anymore (he won't eat dry milk bone type bones either) because as soon as he does he feels sick and eventually pukes. Nobody's sure why, but the solution for him is to add a couple of cups of water to his kibble and let it sit for 5-10 minutes and then he's fine. I started adding some water to my other dog's kibble too and have found he doesn't gorge at the water bowl anymore which is nice.

So there are benefits to adding some water to your dog's kibble. I agree with not always adding flavorful things, but I don't see the harm in adding a bit of water.


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## xxshaelxx (Mar 8, 2010)

BoxerMommie said:


> I am a big believer in this too, however moistening their food does have benefits. Try eating dry cereal for breakfast...it isn't awesome. But on that as well, I adopted a GSD in March and yep, stuck to that philosophy. FINALLY day 6 arrived and he finally ate the dry kibble...about 45 minutes later he was pacing around, arching his back and proceeded to vomit almost all if not all of the food up. We continued to do this for another 3 days. I finally thought maybe he was sick he was a rescue so I put him on chicken and rice and he was fine, never puked had no problems no pacing, no back arching. I went back to kibble and bam same thing happened. So I finally added water to the kibble to make it softer and he has no problems with this. It got to the point he wouldn't eat dry food anymore (he won't eat dry milk bone type bones either) because as soon as he does he feels sick and eventually pukes. Nobody's sure why, but the solution for him is to add a couple of cups of water to his kibble and let it sit for 5-10 minutes and then he's fine. I started adding some water to my other dog's kibble too and have found he doesn't gorge at the water bowl anymore which is nice.
> 
> So there are benefits to adding some water to your dog's kibble. I agree with not always adding flavorful things, but I don't see the harm in adding a bit of water.


Oh wow. Perhaps the kibble is rough on his throat? That's pretty weird! I can see, though, why you do add the water, and it does add the extra benefit of water in their diet so they don't have issues later on with that. :wink:


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## SamWu1 (Oct 15, 2010)

If I fed kibble I would always add water. A natural diet consist of 70%+ moisture and 15-25% protein while kibble is around 10% moisture and grain free kibbles are in the 30-40%+ protein range.

Btw, if you can add a bit of milk, it would need to be raw milk, perferably goat's milk because unprocessed milkl contains lactase, which counters the lactose that causes abdominal upset.


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## Jacksons Mom (Jun 13, 2010)

I always put a little water on Jackson's kibble, along with some wet food, for the reason SamWu1 posted.


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## Guest (Dec 3, 2010)

I was just going to suggest, why not add a tablespoon of canned food for moisture, but I see that Jackson's Mom has covered that. I just think my dogs enjoy their kibble more when it is a little moistened with either water or canned meat.


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## stajbs (Jun 5, 2010)

Our guys prefer moistend kibble as well. Usually topped with Before Grain canned food, or lightly cooked meat, and some extra water too.


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## channeledbymodem (Dec 25, 2008)

Slightly off topic, I feed my two cats mainly high quality canned, like PetGuard, Evo, Holistic Select, Natural Balance, Wellness, etc. Sometimes both of them will stop eating before I know that they are really "full." My wife discovered that if she adds a little water they both come back to the table so to speak. I think maybe these canned foods are a little too concentrated and rich for them to eat very much of at one time. Unfortunately I've never found any version of raw they both like.


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## nash_try (Jul 26, 2010)

@xxshaelxx

Am definitely going to follow your advice.
My dog is such a picky eater, am totally frustrated!! 

Be it any kibble, she will consume it dry only the first time to taste it.
Then i have to add little milk to it(her stools aren't affected much by milk).

Right now am giving her TOTW pacific stream and have heard that many dogs like it.

Have tried putting just the dry kibble. She didn't touch it for 2 days.

Actually the problem is not moistening, many times when i moisten it, she just sips off the liquid leaving the kibble in the bowl. But she will eat the raw hide treats anytime i give her. 
Will act tough now, real tough


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## BoxerMommie (Jun 26, 2008)

nash_try said:


> @xxshaelxx
> 
> Am definitely going to follow your advice.
> My dog is such a picky eater, am totally frustrated!!
> ...


I pet sit, I also foster and I've had a dog go as long as 6 days before they ate. If you do "tough love" DO NOT FEED TREATS or anything else for that matter for at least until 2 weeks AFTER she's on a schedule.

Put down the food (however YOU want to feed it not how SHE likes it), leave it down for 15-20 minutes, if she eats great, if not no biggie. Pick it up and repeat 12 hours later and continue. It may take 3, 4, 5 days but no animal will voluntarily starve itself as long as it is healthy. If she has medical problems then DO NOT DO THIS, but if she is healthy and you're 100% certain of this then you are offering the food and it is her choice to eat it. She WILL eat once she figures out nothing better is coming around the corner.

I'd also recommend not giving raw hides. They're non digestible for dogs and pose a huge obstruction risk. They are also chemically treated.


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## nash_try (Jul 26, 2010)

@BoxerMommie

Ok, will try out as u said.
Even as i am typing, she is trying to climb on the table, where i have kept the raw hide treats. This proves she is hungry.
But if i put kibble in front of her, she will switch places, 2-3 times before she starts eating.(many times just sipping in the liquid part).

One more question. I feed my dog 3 times a day. Morning i give her instant oats boiled with few spoons of milk. In fact she likes this more than kibble. Afternoon i give her some kibble, which she is always reluctant to eat. Evening times give her some treats or boiled eggs or cottage cheese, this is the only time she actually begs for it. Night time is bit inconsistent, she will sometimes eat, sometimes she wont.
My question is, is it OK to feed kibble all 3 times? (she is having TOTW right now) Won't she get bored eating the same kibble all throughout the day? Or should i try 2 kibble brands at a time?
She has very itchy skin, so wanted to her give her only fish based kibble for the time being.


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## BoxerMommie (Jun 26, 2008)

nash_try said:


> @BoxerMommie
> 
> Ok, will try out as u said.
> Even as i am typing, she is trying to climb on the table, where i have kept the raw hide treats. This proves she is hungry.
> ...


No it does not prove she's hungry, it proves she wants a treat...there's a difference. Most dogs can be full yet they will still eat treats...kind of like kids can be stuffed but they still want candy.

Stop giving milk. Dogs do not have the enzymes to digest it properly and it is NOT healthy for them. Also zero reason for oats, it's a grain which is not what they are made to eat. If you want to give extra, add some PROTEIN such as fresh chicken or ground beef to her kibble or by itself. Also sounds like you're seriously overfeeding which may be another reason why she's not eating. She's not a human...she's a dog. Dogs need PROTEIN not carbs and grains and dairy isn't all that great for them.

Yes it's fine to feed kibble 3 times a day if that's what you choose, just make sure you're taking the daily amount and dividing by 3 and not overfeeding. It's really not that great for dogs to change up their food all the time. No she won't get bored eating the same kibble throughout the day. You may want to change every 1-3 bags (depending on the size fo your dog and how fast you go through bags) with different TOTW varities since they're all so different, but sticking with the same kibble throughout the day (and for the bag) is typically what is recommended. She may have allergies if she's itching, so I'd again recommend cutting out the dairy and grains as both are big allergy triggers for a lot of dogs. 

You can also add some fish oil capsules (human) to her food which may help with the itching. But if she's itching that isn't normal and she probably has allergies to something whether it be food or environment.

JMO.


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## cast71 (Sep 16, 2010)

Hi, the raw hides are not good. Like boxermommie said, they are treated with chemicals and they can get stuck in a dogs digestive system. You can give deer antlers and bully sticks as an alternative.

Wholesale to the Public: Antler Dog Chews |

Bully Sticks - All Natural Dog Treats - Best Bully Stick

I also agree with the rest of what boxermommie said. I would add that instead of boiled eggs, you can give raw eggs. I wouldn't add anything at this time. I would only be giving here kibble for now. Once she gives in and starts eating it, than you can add meats. I am also feeding TOTW. My dog is 85 lb.s and I feed 3.5 cups a day. If your dog is smaller, you might compare and feed your dog less. I add whatever meats I'm eating. If I add meats, I will give him around 3 cups instead. I also give him raw meat sometimes and give him raw eggs as well. Don't mix raw and kibble on the same day:wink:


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## Guest (Dec 5, 2010)

I do not give my dogs rawhide, bully sticks or anything like that. My dogs chew on very tough Nylabones. For snack they get chicken jerkey treats (True Chews, made in the USA). I think rawhide, pigs ears, and bully sticks are just empty calories and junk you don't want your dog to have. Nylabones are great, my dogs love chewing on them.


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## 3Musketeers (Nov 4, 2010)

Well, kibble and raw in the same day could be manageable, but with precautions. For example you could feed raw early morning, then kibble about 8 hours later, then raw 15+ hours after then. Just to allow for the different digestion rates. But both at the same time in the same meal is probably just asking for a disaster.
Don't take my word for those numbers though, they're just approximations more or less.
I did something similar to this before completely switching over to raw and it went well.


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## BoxerMommie (Jun 26, 2008)

Also make sure no more than 2 raw eggs per week. Raw eggs decrease the ability to absorb certain minerals so it's not healthy to give more than 2 per week.


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## cast71 (Sep 16, 2010)

BoxerMommie said:


> Also make sure no more than 2 raw eggs per week. Raw eggs decrease the ability to absorb certain minerals so it's not healthy to give more than 2 per week.


Thanks, I didn't know that. I feed like 3 eggs every other day. He gets the egg yolks and I get the egg whites:biggrin: I'll have to cut down a little. Does that go for humans as well?


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5 (Feb 11, 2010)

BoxerMommie said:


> Also make sure no more than 2 raw eggs per week. Raw eggs decrease the ability to absorb certain minerals so it's not healthy to give more than 2 per week.


so y give any at all especially when there are other sources of protein out there....doesnt sound liek something i would want shane eating??



also if dogs are carnivores and they are lactose intolerant why are eggs good for them. eggsa re dairy i thought


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## luvMyBRT (Mar 8, 2010)

BoxerMommie said:


> Also make sure no more than 2 raw eggs per week. Raw eggs decrease the ability to absorb certain minerals so it's not healthy to give more than 2 per week.


Can you please provide the study or link to where you got this information?


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## cast71 (Sep 16, 2010)

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> so y give any at all especially when there are other sources of protein out there....doesnt sound liek something i would want shane eating??
> 
> 
> 
> also if dogs are carnivores and they are lactose intolerant why are eggs good for them. eggsa re dairy i thought


Eggs are not dairy. Anything that contains milk in it is dairy. Eggs have protein and vitamins in it. They are healthy for your dog. It's usually in kibble as well, but raw eggs are much healthier. They contain vitamin B complex, which is very good for your dogs skin and coat:biggrin:


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (May 19, 2009)

Dairy is milk, cheese etc.... coming from cows. Common eggs that we use of course are from chickens.


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## BoxerMommie (Jun 26, 2008)

saraj2878 said:


> Can you please provide the study or link to where you got this information?


It's a pretty common fact. Feel free to speak with any dog nutritionist and you'll get the same advice.

Here's one place it states it (you may have to scroll through until you get to "raw eggs"

Dangerous Foods That Dogs Should Never Eat - WebMD Slideshow

Feeding Dogs Eggs: Is Raw Safe or is Cooked Better?

Toxic Foods and Plants for Dogs

If you want anymore feel free to do a Google search on dogs and raw eggs.


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## cast71 (Sep 16, 2010)

Ahhhh mannnnnnnnnn beer is # 3 on the first link. Just joking, I'm the one who drinks das bier

That first and third site is whack! It states not to give your dog raw meat and bones


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## BoxerMommie (Jun 26, 2008)

cast71 said:


> Ahhhh mannnnnnnnnn beer is # 3 on the first link. Just joking, I'm the one who drinks das bier
> 
> That first site is whack! It says not to give your dog raw meat and bones


Well that's your opinion. Many out there still do not think dogs should be given raw meat and fish (btw it says not to give bones because they can splinter which is absolutly true for COOKED bones). I'm not saying I'm one of them, just saying that it's one of those "debatable topics"...mainly having to do with bacteria. I don't think the site is "whack" as everything else it mentions is absolutely true, it's just a differing opinion on the raw meat and raw fish. (The bones it mentions are cooked, not raw it doesn't mention anything about raw bones and they are absolutely correct on the bones they mention not to give).


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## luvMyBRT (Mar 8, 2010)

Sorry, but I have to agree with cast on this one. Whack. 

It says the main problem with feeding raw eggs is the salmonella. Well if that was true, no one should be feeding raw! 

It also says that eggs contain an enzyme called avidin which decreases the absorption of certain vitamins. In all my research on barf diets I found something that said that this is only true if you were to ONLY feed the yolk or the whites of the egg (I can't remember exactly which one), but when feeding a whole egg it's not a problem. I'm going to go and look back and see if I can find where it states that....

I wasn't asking for random internet sites with someones opinion on the topic of eggs. I was asking for an actual study where someone PROVED the statement that "you should only feed your dog two raw eggs a week" was true. :smile:


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## BoxerMommie (Jun 26, 2008)

saraj2878 said:


> Sorry, but I have to agree with cast on this one. Whack.
> 
> It says the main problem with feeding raw eggs is the salmonella. Well if that was true, no one should be feeding raw!
> 
> ...


Well the "actual study" for me came from a holistic vet who was also an animal nutritionist as well as 2 other animal nutritionists with degrees in it. So no I don't have a study sitting in front of me, but they were from reputable sources. I *believe* it's the absorpotion of vitamin B but don't hold me to that 100%. It's typically recommended to not feed more than 2 raw eggs per week...you can cook them without issue if you want to give eggs (gives some dogs gas though so forewarning here). 

Feel free to do what you wish, it's your pet, but feel free to do your own research. I'm not going to waste my time looking up studies to post here when I've already been given the information by more than one professional. I'm sorry I just don't have that kind of time, if you do more power to you. I spent 2 minutes to do a short search but that's really all I have time for.


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## luvMyBRT (Mar 8, 2010)

BoxerMommie said:


> I'm not going to waste my time looking up studies to post here when I've already been given the information by more than one professional. I'm sorry I just don't have that kind of time, if you do more power to you. I spent 2 minutes to do a short search but that's really all I have time for.


Hey...your the one that posted the statement as fact, not me. I was just interested in learning more about it. I feel that if someone is going to post that type of information they *should* be able to show their resources to back up their statements.


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## cast71 (Sep 16, 2010)

I didn't mean to start any kind of heated debate, so I will apoligize for my term "whack". I was kind of in a joking mood at the time:biggrin: I like to joke alot, but I am serious when I have to be. I do appreciate any time any of the members from DFC can give. According to one of those articles it states it's the raw egg whites that contain that enzyme. I give yolks because we share. He gets the yolks and I get the eggwhites. Sometimes I get both:biggrin: I am interested if the whole egg is a problem or not?



> Experts warn against raw egg whites which contain an enzyme, avidin, that interferes with the metabolism of fats, glucose, amino acids and energy, and decreases the absorption of the B vitamin, biotin. A biotin deficiency can lead to skin inflammation, hair loss, and even stunted growth in young pups.


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## nash_try (Jul 26, 2010)

@BoxerMommie

As u suggested, i keep the dog food bowl in front of her 3 times a day.(cause i feed her 3 times a day)
Its Day 4 today, till now she hasn't eaten (except yesterday when she eat about 10 pieces of kibble).

She just smells it, sometimes licks the kibble 3-4 times and then walks away.

She begs for the treats, but am very firm now. No treats till she starts eating food. The thing is till now, i have included little bit of milk in every meal, so she doesn't want to have the kibble without milk. Plus so many times, she just licks off the liquid leaving behind the kibble. So wanted to stop this behavior.
Anyways this is quite new to me, a dog not eating for 4 days, and still seems alright.

Should i carry this on till day 5 or day 6?
What happens if she refuses to eat even after 5-6 days?


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## cast71 (Sep 16, 2010)

It's hard but stick in there. Your doing great. Do not break and add milk. Just put the food down for 15 minutes. If your dog doesn't eat or doesn't finish whats left, save it for the next meal. You might want to goto feeding 2 times a day as well. Keep it up:smile: She'll eventually eat and than eat every meal from than on. She's trying to trick you into adding stuff to her diet. Do not cater to that bad behavior. Good luck and please keep us posted.


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## The Maverick (Dec 9, 2010)

can you all elaborate on the splitting of the raw and kibble? I have been adding about a 1/4 cup of raw to my dogs kibble as if it were a canned product. I am considering switching to SOJO's complete as an additive to the Oijen kibble that they are currently eating. any thoughts?


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## cast71 (Sep 16, 2010)

I answered you on your knew thread. Good Idea starting a new thread.

http://dogfoodchat.com/forum/showthread.php?p=59134&posted=1#post59134


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## nash_try (Jul 26, 2010)

I lost  , she won !!
I just kept the kibble in front of her for 6 days, 3 times a day for 15 min. She didn't eat! Couldn't starve her more. She was losing weight. Plus my family was constantly pestering me to feed her what she likes. She just doesn't like to have dry kibble. If i mix the kibble with liquid stuff, she licks off the liquid leaving behind the kibble pieces. So got this idea, i grinded the kibble in a mixer, mixed the powdered kibble in a cup of water and then she licked it completely!

The upside is, no milk in her diet now. Just kibble mixed with water. 
This procedure i have tried for 2 days now and she licks the food completely. So that's the way it stays i guess.


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## ann g (May 6, 2010)

My dog is very picky also but loves canned food mixed in. On days that he has no mix ins he'll just look at bowl and walk away. We will hold the bowl up and pretend were eating it, even making eating sounds, that does it, after about 20seconds of that we put bowl down and he eats. Good luck with your picky eater.


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## cast71 (Sep 16, 2010)

As long as your only adding water that's fine. Did you ever try adding water to kibble, without grinding the kibble to dust? Let the water soak in for 10 minutes and it is almost like wet food.


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## channeledbymodem (Dec 25, 2008)

cast71 said:


> As long as your only adding water that's fine. Did you ever try adding water to kibble, without grinding the kibble to dust? Let the water soak in for 10 minutes and it is almost like wet food.


Agreeance, although I don't let it get soggy because the idea turns *me* off, remembering how when I ate General Mills cereals every morning I had to add just the right amount of milk and wait for it to soak in *just* the right amount of time. Is there anything worse than soggy Rice Krispies or anything better than crispy yet moist Rice Krispies?

I don't think it's any coincidence that when we were all eating cereal and milk every morning Gravy Train was a big seller. Of course any kibble can become "Gravy Train" and Merrick disingenuously promotes adding water on their bags to make "homemade" gravy (I love Merrick; they are so cheesy).

Jeez, if it were my dog before I got all tough love on his butt I'd moisten the kibble and if that didn't work I'd sling on a spoon of Pedigree or a raw egg or chop suey or whatever else was in the fridge. And if that didn't work . . . then the little brat could wait a few hours to eat again.


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## DarDog (Sep 6, 2010)

nash_try, I don't know if anyone has asked this yet, but are your dog's teeth and mouth ok? Sometimes a dog may refuse to eat kibble and only eat softer food when he/she has a tooth problem, or sore teeth or mouth. Just thought I'd check :smile:


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## cast71 (Sep 16, 2010)

DarDog said:


> nash_try, I don't know if anyone has asked this yet, but are your dog's teeth and mouth ok? Sometimes a dog may refuse to eat kibble and only eat softer food when he/she has a tooth problem, or sore teeth or mouth. Just thought I'd check :smile:


Great point! How are your dogs teeth and gums?


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## nash_try (Jul 26, 2010)

@cast71
Yes i did try adding water to it without powdering it. The result: water licked off, kibble in the bowl. I even let it soak in water, but she just doesn't like to see kibble pieces at all. The thing is , she just doesn't like to chew, she loves to lick food. When given the kibble, she tries to lick it few times, and leaves it after that as she is not able to pick up. Infact few times i had success when i added milk to it, she did eat the kibble. But the key thing is, few times...

@DarDog
Her tooth seem to be fine to me. I mean back teeths are bit yellowish at the root. Plus she loves to eat the raw hide sticks, which she chews off nicely. I have almost stopped it, give her just 2 small sticks a day.

All is well now  Plus its not so difficult to grind the kibble. I grind a batch which lasts for 4-5 days. You know, kibbles are so dry, i mean 1 cup of kibble requires 1 cup water to soak it properly. 

Just a side note: Her stools are so firm with TOTW pacific stream. A score:100 from the poop chart post for sure. Love it as she is relieved in one go almost all times.


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## BoxerMommie (Jun 26, 2008)

nash_try said:


> I lost  , she won !!
> I just kept the kibble in front of her for 6 days, 3 times a day for 15 min. She didn't eat! Couldn't starve her more. She was losing weight. Plus my family was constantly pestering me to feed her what she likes. She just doesn't like to have dry kibble. If i mix the kibble with liquid stuff, she licks off the liquid leaving behind the kibble pieces. So got this idea, i grinded the kibble in a mixer, mixed the powdered kibble in a cup of water and then she licked it completely!
> 
> The upside is, no milk in her diet now. Just kibble mixed with water.
> This procedure i have tried for 2 days now and she licks the food completely. So that's the way it stays i guess.


But question...what raw hides or pigs ears or bully sticks or other treats were you or the family giving her? That only works if you give absolutely NOTHING else along the way otherwise they'll just hold out for that something else. I would venture to guess if your family was bugging you to feed her "what she likes" they were probably feeding her "under the table" so to speak. ??


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## BoxerMommie (Jun 26, 2008)

nash_try said:


> @BoxerMommie
> 
> As u suggested, i keep the dog food bowl in front of her 3 times a day.(cause i feed her 3 times a day)
> Its Day 4 today, till now she hasn't eaten (except yesterday when she eat about 10 pieces of kibble).
> ...


When my dog was sick he went almost 2 weeks without eating (yes my vet knew we weren't withholding anything). Not something I'd recommend but if it really comes down to a week then you need to take her to the vet as no healthy animal will starve itself. If that's truly the case and you can TRULY say NOBODY fed her anything else then you should probably go to the vet and have a full blood workup done and have her teeth checked.


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## BoxerMommie (Jun 26, 2008)

ann g said:


> My dog is very picky also but loves canned food mixed in. On days that he has no mix ins he'll just look at bowl and walk away. We will hold the bowl up and pretend were eating it, even making eating sounds, that does it, after about 20seconds of that we put bowl down and he eats. Good luck with your picky eater.


Just curious why do you do this? Have you ever skipped a meal? I'd imagine you have and you're still here. If he walks away pick it up set it on the counter and feed it at the next meal time. Why go through a song and dance to get your dog to eat?


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## nash_try (Jul 26, 2010)

@BoxerMommie
Hi, actually my dad feed her 3 small chew sticks on 4th day, after which i hid the packets not only from my dog but also from my family!! But that's about it, that's the only thing she has consumed in those 6 days for sure.

My dog is spoiled to the core. She is 6 yrs old now. Until now, my mom used to sit besides her holding the bowl, mixing the food, till she lapped everything off. Now she has got a habit for this. She will complete the food only if a person sits besides her or she won't finish it completely. Plus we never gave her solid stuff, only the chew sticks were the only solid part of her diet. Mom used to always soak the kibble till it was totally soaked. Now i have taken control of her food, i am trying to change things and things are kinda improving. Anyways, dry or powdered, at least she is getting her daily meals properly.


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## BoxerMommie (Jun 26, 2008)

nash_try said:


> @BoxerMommie
> Hi, actually my dad feed her 3 small chew sticks on 4th day, after which i did the packets not only from my dog but also from my family!! But thats about it, thats the only thing she has consumed in those 6 days for sure.
> 
> My dog is spoiled to the core. She is 6 yrs old now. Untill now, my mom used to sit besides her holding the bowl, mixing the food, till she lapped eveything off. Now she has got a habbit for this. She will complete the food only if a person sits besides her or she won't finish it completely. Plus we never gave her solid stuff, only the chew sticks were the only solid part of her diet. Mom used to always soak the kibble till it was totally soaked. Now i have taken control of her food, i am trying to change things and things are kinda improving. Anyways, dry or powdered, atleast she is getting her daily meals properly.


Well that sabotaged it right there. Dogs can go awhile without eating. When I get pet sitting dogs boarding it's not unusual for them to go 5-6 days without eating anything due to change in routine. When we adopted our GSD in March he went 5 1/2 days before he touched anything. So right there with those chew sticks (which are high in calories and more filling than you realize) time should've started over right there.

I'd encourage you to try again and make sure NOTHING is fed. And don't hover. Put the food down and walk away, if she eats great if not pick it up and try again. I agree with another post in that I'd switch her to 2 feedings a day unless there's a medical reason she's on 3. 

But again, if you are 100% sure nothing else has been fed and she goes 7 days without eating anything then I'd take her to the vet and have her teeth checked to make sure there isn't a medical reason for her to not be eating. Especially given her age and it sounds like she may be a small dog (?) it wouldn't surprise me if she had some bad teeth that may be the culprit.


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## cast71 (Sep 16, 2010)

I would recommend you look for an alternative from the rawhide chews. Rawhide is chemically processed and can get stuck in a dogs digestive system. Here are some alternatives. 

Wholesale to the Public: Antler Dog Chews |

True Chews Dog Treats and Chews

Bully Sticks - All Natural Dog Treats - Best Bully Stick


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## BoxerMommie (Jun 26, 2008)

cast71 said:


> I would recommend you look for an alternative from the rawhide chews. Rawhide is chemically processed and can get stuck in a dogs digestive system. Here are some alternatives.
> 
> Wholesale to the Public: Antler Dog Chews |
> 
> ...


I absolutely agree!


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## cast71 (Sep 16, 2010)

I 100% agreed with post #46. I think the dog should have a vet check the teeth and look for any other health problems. Than proceed *AGAIN* to straight kibble only and no treats or chews.


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## SaltyDog (Mar 10, 2010)

BoxerMommie said:


> Yep, that is the only criteria is no citric acid (which I've actually not seen in premium foods).



Actually, Orijen and Nature's Variety are both preserved with citric acid.




On a side note.....there is no concrete evidence that shows dry food preserved with citric acid, then moistened, causes bloat.

On another side note.....if you contact any premium manufacturer they will tell you it is always better to mix dry food with wet or add water to the dry food.

Gosh I'm glad I don't feed kibble......there are so many rules


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## BoxerMommie (Jun 26, 2008)

SaltyDog said:


> Actually, Orijen and Nature's Variety are both preserved with citric acid.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Not sure where you got your information, but Neither Orijen or Nature's Variety preserve with Citric Acide. Orijen uses folic acid and Nature's variety uses ascorbic acid...I JUST looked at the ingredients for all versions on both sites for the most up to date info. So...I still stand by my original statement...I do not know of any premium quality kibble that uses citric acid.

There's no "concrete" evidence of ANYTHING with bloat, however in the Purdue study there is a STRONG tie between adding liquid to foods preserved with citric acid and bloat.

There's really not any rules...simply it's not a good idea for folks that own breeds prone to bloat to add liquid to foods that use citric acid....how is that "so many rules"? It's ONE. I feed kibble, there aren't any "rules" other than that one.


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## SaltyDog (Mar 10, 2010)

BoxerMommie said:


> Not sure where you got your information, but Neither Orijen or Nature's Variety preserve with Citric Acide. Orijen uses folic acid and Nature's variety uses ascorbic acid...I JUST looked at the ingredients for all versions on both sites for the most up to date info. So...I still stand by my original statement...I do not know of any premium quality kibble that uses citric acid.
> 
> There's no "concrete" evidence of ANYTHING with bloat, however in the Purdue study there is a STRONG tie between adding liquid to foods preserved with citric acid and bloat.
> 
> There's really not any rules...simply it's not a good idea for folks that own breeds prone to bloat to add liquid to foods that use citric acid....how is that "so many rules"? It's ONE. I feed kibble, there aren't any "rules" other than that one.



OMG....did you seriously just quote the Purdue University study???? The most far fetched, inconsistant, no set parameters study on the internet!!!!!


Orijen just changed its formula then, because I used to use and it was on EVERY bag. Natures Variety DOES preserve with it.....it's just not listed on the ingredients list....shhhhh!!! How crooked is that? Email them and they'll confess that it's in there. I have no idea how they can get away with not printing it on the bag.

Sorry, kibble is just terrible and I feel so bad that it took me so long to realize it. And I fed the best kibbles....Orijen and Evo. In my opinion, Evo was far superior, but lets face it, it doesn't matter how great the kibble is....it's so preserved and so un-natural. How can you trully trust what's in the bag? Unless you sourced it, extruded it and packed it yourself, you can't be positive of what is actually in there. Besides, if you are willing to pay for Orijen, it's so much healthier AND cheaper to feed raw or cook for your dog.


Oh and ascorbic acid is not a preservative.....it's synthetic Vitamin C that dogs nor the human body can easily recognize.


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## BoxerMommie (Jun 26, 2008)

Well I don't feed Orijen I can't afford it for one and there's no way my dog could eat it anyway. I spend around $35 a month to feed an 80 pound GSD and a 67 pound Boxer...I doubt I could feed homecooked for that and I know I can't feed raw for that as I priced it awhile back. And I feed a good quality grain free kibble. Secondly, fresh food isn't what's cracked up to be either, with mad cow disease, E. Coli, Salmonella, just to name a few of the "outbreaks" in fruits, veggies, and meats in the last decade.

Nothing is 100% safe unless you raise your own cattle, slaughter, and package them yourself, and grow, tend to, and harvest your own fruits, veggies, and grains, which I would venture to say that most of us don't do.

It's just your opinion. I personally see nothing wrong with a good quality kibble.

We will just have to agree to disagree. But I think that's why many kibble feeders get turned off of raw feeding, because many (not all, so those that don't don't jump on me LoL) raw feeders make comments like that and it tends to turn people off.


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## cast71 (Sep 16, 2010)

BoxerMommie said:


> Nothing is 100% safe unless you raise your own cattle, slaughter, and package them yourself, and grow, tend to, and harvest your own fruits, veggies, and grains, which I would venture to say that most of us don't do.


That's the only way to be 100% sure, but I also agree that it's safer to feed supermarket meats over kibble. You can actually see what your dog is eating. As far as the quality of the human grade meats go, you never really know You really do not know what is in commercial raw as well. What quality meats are they using? Are they even telling you the truth? Commercial raw is so much more expensive, than buying your own raw meats. Plus you know exactly what your dog is eating if you buy it yourself. 

I just avoid any food with citric acid in it. I didn't know that natures variety doesn't list it. That's just not right ;0(

If it's ok to ask, how are you feeding 147 lbs of dog for $35 a month? I am currently feeding an 85 lb dog and it's costing me the same. I feed TOTW formulas, Acana praire, and any meats I can get for $.50-$1/lb. My dog does eat alot. can't go lower than 3.5 cups a day, otherwise he'll start to look skinny. He's already skinny, so skinnier. He has a fast metabolism. That's awesome that your able to feed 2 dogs for $35. I would love to hear some ideas. Thanks.


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## BoxerMommie (Jun 26, 2008)

cast71 said:


> That's the only way to be 100% sure, but I also agree that it's safer to feed supermarket meats over kibble. You can actually see what your dog is eating. As far as the quality of the human grade meats go, you never really know You really do not know what is in commercial raw as well. What quality meats are they using? Are they even telling you the truth? Commercial raw is so much more expensive, than buying your own raw meats. Plus you know exactly what your dog is eating if you buy it yourself.
> 
> I just avoid any food with citric acid in it. I didn't know that natures variety doesn't list it. That's just not right ;0(
> 
> If it's ok to ask, how are you feeding 147 lbs of dog for $35 a month? I am currently feeding an 85 lb dog and it's costing me the same. I feed TOTW formulas, Acana praire, and any meats I can get for $.50-$1/lb. My dog does eat alot. can't go lower than 3.5 cups a day, otherwise he'll start to look skinny. He's already skinny, so skinnier. He has a fast metabolism. That's awesome that your able to feed 2 dogs for $35. I would love to hear some ideas. Thanks.


My GSD eats Pelican Bay from Costco a grain free formula which is $30 for 30 pounds, that lasts me around 5 weeks (he's 80 pounds), I also feed their Kirkland food which is 40 pounds for $22 and that lasts me around 7-8 weeks, my Boxer is 67 pounds, eats TOTW which is $40 for 30 pounds and that lasts me 7 weeks with him. So I'd say I spend probably $30-$40 a month depending on the month. Given that I buy different foods it's just a guess, but it's a decent estimate anyway. I usually feed gizzards rather than meats but once in awhile I'll throw in some chicken or turkey we didn't eat or some canned TOTW.


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## cast71 (Sep 16, 2010)

No costco by me:frown: I would probably stick with TOTW anyway, because I'm getting excellent results with it. My friend is using diamond natural and adds extra cooked meats, with excellent results as well. I guess were using pretty much the same foods as you are:smile:


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## BoxerMommie (Jun 26, 2008)

cast71 said:


> No costco by me:frown: I would probably stick with TOTW anyway, because I'm getting excellent results with it. My friend is using diamond natural and adds extra cooked meats, with excellent results as well. I guess were using pretty much the same foods as you are:smile:


Well Costco's Pelican Bay formula is almost identical to TOTW's Pacific Stream. Really the only ingredient that's a huge difference for us is Rosemary which my Boxer is HIGHLY allergic to otherwise he'd be on it too. But that one little ingredient knocks out that food for him unfortunately. The inclusion of the grain free through Costco has been REALLY nice, especially since my GSD doesn't have any tummy issues or food allergies and I can bounce between their grain free and their regular food.

I've also seen a huge difference in price for TOTW depending on stores...even within the same area. I've seen it as high as $70 in my area and as low as $40. I'm lucky that the feed store a mile away has it for $40. But how much you pay a month on food will depend on the price for it in your area also.


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## BoxerMommie (Jun 26, 2008)

smallyfish said:


> Dry foods are no good for dogs,I like the food to be as fresh as possible,it's the best when you have the time to make some dog foods yourself.The dog would love you more,but if you can not make good foods,better buy some,it is the dog's healthy that cares,that's the most important thing.


A dog isn't going to love you more or less for feeding it a certain food. Dogs love you unconditionally, that's the magic of a dog (and many other animals). Not that I advocate it obviously but your dog would love you just as much if you didn't feed it than if you fed it filet mignon everyday...that's just the way they are. I'm not saying you're incorrect in your other statements, but saying your dog will love you more is ridiculous.


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