# Update with a Question



## happygirlx3 (Feb 22, 2010)

Hello everyone! Molly has been raw fed since November 28, 2010. She's pretty much got the hang of it now, but she is still incredibly picky. For example, she will not touch turkey so we gave up on that. She'll eat _some_ fish, usually only mackerel. She's still never excited about meal times, but she never was with kibble either. Sometimes she'll sniff her food and look at it a while before she finally picks it up and eats it. The only pieces of meat she really loves are chicken wings. She'll take them by the tip and trot off with them. She does not like liver much, but she'll eat it when I hand feed it to her once a week. 

She has gained a ton of weight since being on raw. She went from a thin 21 pounds to 29.7 pounds in only 6 months! I gave a horrified look at the vet who was doing her check up. I asked if he thought she was overweight at all and he said "Nope! Great shape!" :shocked: Of course he does promote Science Diet and is fully against raw, even going as far as to print me off some articles on Salmonella which I replied with a few articles against kibble and Science Diet in particular. I'm still going to try and walk her for at least 30 minutes every day. I had my usual vet, my cousin-in-law, look at her last week when he was over and he said she could lose a pound or two and be fine. He's been incredibly impressed in Molly's diet. Her teeth have gone from filthy and needing to be cleaned to sparkling white! He definitely believes it's working, but not enough to try it himself yet. 

I got Molly's blood results back, both vets didn't see a problem and in fact said it was terrific for her age (10). Her platelets were a bit high (441 I think) but they said it was probably due to stress. I'll scan the results and post them here in a bit. We're going to the park later! I'm lucky to live in West TN because we have the Shelby Farms Off Leash Dog Park. It's huge, over 500 acres with 5 ponds and that's only the dog park! It's about 15 minutes away, but I try to go at least 3 times a week. :becky:


Okay here's my question! I rarely ever see Molly poop because we have such a large backyard and I don't follow her out there lol. I'm afraid Molly is getting too much bone or not enough variety but I'm not sure. I've never seen her have diarrhea. She hasn't had any problems and I'm probably worrying too much, but I'm curious. 
Here's this week's schedule:

Sunday: Beef Liver + Beef Pancreas (10% of her weekly diet)
Monday: Chicken wing
Tuesday: Beef Heart
Wednesday: Lamb meat bits (no bone)
Thursday: Chicken wing
Friday: Pork stew meat
Saturday: Something boneless (lamb, pork, beef heart, chicken breast, or fish)

Sometimes she will get pork ribs for her bone-in meals instead of chicken wings, but she loves her chicken! She also gets fish oil capsules every night and sometimes a few pieces of Ziwipeak as treats. Molly only eats 4-6oz a day, usually not exact. Is that too little? I'm trying to get her to lose a pound or two, but she's been eating this amount for months now with no change! 

Any input or criticisms on her diet or anything else are welcome! Here are some pictures. :smile:





































Chowing down on a deer rib:


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## SpooOwner (Oct 1, 2010)

For my dog, that would be too little bone. However, there's a wide range, and it's impossible to know without occasionally checking the poop. The variety looks good, though you might want to add in some kidney.

I can't quite tell from the photos, but Molly looks pretty good, maybe 1-2 lbs overweight, as you said. Increasing activity or fasting once in a while will help her to lose those lbs. Since she's already eating less than 2% of her weight, I would recommend increasing her activity. If you spend a day hiking with her, you can accomplish both goals: checking her poop and helping her to lose weight.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

i don't think she's fat.....i think she's gorgeous...i would try to get more fish in her....and mackerel is a wonderful fish...maybe make a day or two where she gets mackerel with something else....

you think she should only weigh 21 lbs, is that right?

i don't see how she can be fat on 4-6 oz per day and get 30 minutes of exercise and be fat.....especially with the diet you're getting...maybe someone with more knowledge can figure it out for you, because i think she looks fine...


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

SpooOwner said:


> For my dog, that would be too little bone. However, there's a wide range, and it's impossible to know without occasionally checking the poop. The variety looks good, though you might want to add in some kidney.
> 
> I can't quite tell from the photos, but Molly looks pretty good, maybe 1-2 lbs overweight, as you said. Increasing activity or fasting once in a while will help her to lose those lbs. Since she's already eating less than 2% of her weight, I would recommend increasing her activity. If you spend a day hiking with her, you can accomplish both goals: checking her poop and helping her to lose weight.


2 chicken wings per week is too much bone? really?

i guess it doesn't seem that way to me, because my dogs need bone every third meal or so...sometimes more when it's a particularly rich meat....

i don't get it...why don't i see these dogs as overweight? probably because my pug is built like a linebacker....broad, husky and big bully like chest......


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## SpooOwner (Oct 1, 2010)

magicre said:


> 2 chicken wings per week is too much bone? really?


I think you misread me, Re. I said "too little," not "too much." As in, my dog would need more than two wings/week.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

SpooOwner said:


> I think you misread me, Re. I said "too little," not "too much." As in, my dog would need more than two wings/week.


oops. my bad.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

I would also try and get some more fish into the diet on a regular basis if possible 

Honestly, I really wouldn't worry about her stool. You'd know if she was having poo issues....and since she doesn't appear to have a single problem and her bloodwork came back great, really I see nothing to worry about. I hardly ever see my dogs do their business and it's not something I go out of my way to keep track of LOL

Molly's really 10 years old?! She looks like a puppy!!!!


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## happygirlx3 (Feb 22, 2010)

Thanks everyone for all the helpful advice! I really appreciate it! The only reason I was a bit worried about too much bone is because I know chicken wings are really boney and whenever I do see her poop, it's a bit crumbly. When we go on long walks or to the park, she has a pooping issue, it's a long story! 

Since she was young, whenever we go out somewhere new or for long walks, she poops constantly. Her poop will start out normal and small then as the walk goes on she'll start squeezing out a few drops of watery poo like every 20 minutes or less sometimes. When we're at the park, like today, she will run off into the tall grass away from everyone, squeeze out a few drops of poo, then run back to us. She _always_ does this. Is this normal? I usually don't judge her diet by her poo at the park, just when I see her do it in the yard occasionally.

I'm glad no one thinks she's a fatty! It's a huge change for me because she's always been so thin until I started raw. She never liked kibble. When she gained 9 pounds in 6 months, I was worried, but I assume it's just muscle and her filling out? Maybe she was a lot thinner than I thought! I think she just looks "chunky" in her chest a bit. I've started walking her a lot more and taking her to the park for a few hours 2-3 times a week, like today. 

Does anyone think I should add another chicken wing into her diet? I try to feed mackerel as much as I can, but the Mexican market I get it from doesn't always have it. :frown: It does have bones in it, it's basically the whole fish just chopped into pieces, so I usually count it as bone-in, but it's given in place of a boneless (like on Saturdays) because it's not very boney. I'll try to add a second meal of it during the week. It's so hard to feed her different proteins in one day because she eats such a small amount! :/

Thanks again everyone for the help! Here is her bloodwork if anyone wants to see!


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## happygirlx3 (Feb 22, 2010)

DaneMama said:


> Molly's really 10 years old?! She looks like a puppy!!!!


I know! It's so hard to believe she's so old already. She doesn't act like it at all, except for sleeping a lot, but that's nothing new haha. She doesn't have any arthritis and isn't slowing down any at the park. I hope this means she'll age well and live long!


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## sassymaxmom (Dec 7, 2008)

She is gorgeous!

Max came to raw way overweight and didn't end up losing all the weight. About half became muscle, 15% of his total weight compared to his previous ideal weight and he is a senior dog. It took over a year for that to happen for Max but maybe she did put on muscle even as a mature adult dog. Max was about 9 when he started putting on muscle, seniors tend to lose muscle mass.

I couldn't feel any of his ribs, he had a groove down the back and no hip or breast bones were easily felt. Now my fingers bump along his ribs and all his bony bits are easily felt. That thick skin over the shoulders is the first place he gets fat.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

it's got to be the picture but she doesn't look like a 21-25 lb dog....to me...she looks bigger than that...

can you tell me her size? bigger than a pug? smaller than an aussie or something? i can't seem to get a perspective on what she should weigh....

she's mixed breed, like my malia....who is part corgi, part lab, part heeler someone said, part part part.....so she's a mutt....LOL...but her perfect weight is 36 lbs.....that's when she looks the best to me....she never had the rib sticking out....and we feed her 5-6 ounces per meal.

you're really feeding 4-6 ounces per day? or is that 4-6 ounces per meal? if so, and you think she should weigh around 25 lbs...then 4 oz a meal would be perfect for her...and instead of chicken wings, i'd give her a drumstick....she's got a nice sized mouth for drumsticks....

so her diet would look something like this:

Sunday: Beef Liver + Beef Pancreas (10% of her weekly diet)
Monday: pork rib
Tuesday: Beef Heart
Wednesday: Lamb meat bits (no bone)
Thursday: chicken drumstick
Friday: Pork stew meat
Saturday: mackerel

all meals would be 4 oz. and she would get a nice variety and fish once a week...


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## Herzo (Feb 5, 2011)

That's a Basenji and that's what there suppose to weigh, there small dogs about like a pug but not as heavy and maybe taller. My sister has one there cute little dogs. It is red and white which is the usual color. 

Your Black and white is beautiful. My sister would love to have that or the tri color.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

Herzo said:


> That's a Basenji and that's what there suppose to weigh, there small dogs about like a pug but not as heavy and maybe taller. My sister has one there cute little dogs. It is red and white which is the usual color.
> 
> Your Black and white is beautiful. My sister would love to have that or the tri color.


ah, i understand 

then the 4oz per meal would be about right....

my pug is about 18 lbs....he gets 3 oz approximately per meal...


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## happygirlx3 (Feb 22, 2010)

Thanks magicre for the changed schedule, I'm going to try it! She's had drumsticks in the past because they're so much cheaper, but she looooves her wings so much more. Maybe she likes the crunchiness? 

She is a Basenji, full-blooded. We got her from a show breeder who had an accidental breeding (they were going to wait another 6 months) and since they didn't have homes lined up we got a free puppy! (my father works with the breeder) 6 months later they had another litter and we got her half-brother, the red and white Basenji. They fight like siblings constantly, but never draw blood. Just growl and bicker, it scares people who don't know them lol. Females are supposed to weigh 20-25 pounds while males should weigh 22-26 pounds. Molly definitely weighs more than our male now, it used to be the other way around. 

Molly eats 4-6oz per DAY not per meal. We started with about half a pound per day, but she kept gaining weight so we cut it down to 4-6oz depending on the day/cut of meat. She's stopped gaining weight, but she's not really losing either. Unless she's out walking with me or at the park, she's usually sleeping outside on the lawn chairs. Now that it's summer she loves to sunbathe. Lazy dog. I've been trying to walk her, the other Basenji, and our Border Collie (15) everyday. I'm happy no one thinks she's morbidly obese haha. I see so many fat dogs that I'm paranoid about mine!

Thanks everyone for the advice and compliments!


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

happygirlx3 said:


> Thanks magicre for the changed schedule, I'm going to try it! She's had drumsticks in the past because they're so much cheaper, but she looooves her wings so much more. Maybe she likes the crunchiness?
> 
> She is a Basenji, full-blooded. We got her from a show breeder who had an accidental breeding (they were going to wait another 6 months) and since they didn't have homes lined up we got a free puppy! (my father works with the breeder) 6 months later they had another litter and we got her half-brother, the red and white Basenji. They fight like siblings constantly, but never draw blood. Just growl and bicker, it scares people who don't know them lol. Females are supposed to weigh 20-25 pounds while males should weigh 22-26 pounds. Molly definitely weighs more than our male now, it used to be the other way around.
> 
> ...


she looks so much bigger in the pictures....if she's happy with wings and doesn't choke on them like my adorable 'stupid eater', and that's her bone content.....twice a week and that's all she needs....keep her diet the way it is, i'm thinking...

seems like i'm having one of those off days...you're getting better advice from every one else LOL...time for me to go to bed 

my pug weighs 18-20 pounds and he gets 3 to 3 1/2 ounces per meal...so i think i was going from that.


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## Herzo (Feb 5, 2011)

Wow nice, free purebred puppy. I think you should put up more pics. They are such cute dogs and goofy. I call my sisters dog Yoda. because she gets the dumbest look on her face and she looks like Yoda. 

So she chews up chicken legs just fine? My sisters dog needs some teeth cleaning and I need to see if she will feed her something like that. I know she will not do all raw.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

so how are you both doing? everything okay?


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## happygirlx3 (Feb 22, 2010)

Oh sorry I haven't updated, life has been very hectic lately! My friends' dog was hit by a car today and we're all completely devastated. She was only a year old. Her name was Lily and she was the sweetest yellow lab puppy I've ever met. I loved her like she was my own dog and I babysat her several times a week. She loved going to the park and swimming in our pool. I blame myself for what happened because she was trying to follow me across the street. I work at a pet store and all the dogs know better than to leave the store when told to stay. I ran out the door to get something across the street, assuming she wouldn't leave and that her owner was watching her, but she just took off... I wish I could have done something differently or looked behind me one more time. I will really miss her. She was a great little dog. :frown:

Anyway, back to Molly! Thanks for asking about her magicre! Molly is doing great, sleeping in bed with me as we speak. My mom gave her twice the amount of lamb she was supposed to eat yesterday, so she was fasted today! Luckily she's not very food driven so she didn't even notice haha. 



> So she chews up chicken legs just fine? My sisters dog needs some teeth cleaning and I need to see if she will feed her something like that. I know she will not do all raw.


Molly has no problem chewing anything! She's not the type of dog that loves chewing on bones or toys, but I haven't yet found any raw food she can't chew through lol. She ate chicken drumsticks, legs are too much food for her, just fine, but she loves her boney wings more. 

Basenjis are great little dogs, but definitely not for everyone haha. When they were younger they were very destructive and mischievous. Now that they're older, they mostly sleep. They love laying out in our backyard on the lawn chairs or by the pool on the hot concrete. The concrete burns my feet, but they'll lay flat out on it lol. I don't know how they stand this 95 degree weather, they just love sunbathing in it. Here's a few more pictures, I'll take some out in the sun tomorrow! :smile:










Anyone ever seen anything like this? This was last summer when the dogs were on Canidae Grain-Free. Our tan Basenji's coat was completely weird like this for over a month until we switched foods and he was fine. You could pull the hairs off in small clumps. The dots are from water.









Close up:










Back to Molly! These are from last year.


















Being civil to each other haha.









And our almost 15 year old Border Collie Charlie, he was too lazy to get up and eat.


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## happygirlx3 (Feb 22, 2010)

RIP Lily, I'll miss you :frown:


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## sassymaxmom (Dec 7, 2008)

Sorry Lily was lost to a car. I lost a dog that way and still beat myself up over it 11 years later.

The tan B. is just blowing coat. I know they aren't supposed to have an undercoat but some do. Looks extra bad with the water spots on it! Sassy was a lab mix with a dense short double coat and looked the same way when her coat was blowing out when she was just getting sick. Once the furminator was in my grooming box and appropriate nutrition and hydration was provided for her kidney disease I thought she was going gray on her back because it gleamed in the sunlight.


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## Herzo (Feb 5, 2011)

So sorry about lily. That's so sad.

My sisters Basenji looks like that when she sheds. They love the hot weather as they came from Africa. MY sisters dog will lay up in the windows in the sun. They really are funny little dogs. And can be quiet nasty when they want to. Clover will attack any female she gets around any more. I think she needs here butt spanked.


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