# Back from the vet visit that undoubtedly sealed the deal.



## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

Okay, Grissom went back to the vet today and it was the most productive visit of all time. 
Guess what's wrong with him? CARBOHYDRATE INTOLERENCE! Even on high quality kibble, the carbohydrates are too much and are left undigested and are the perfect breeding grounds for all kinds of nasty bacteria. If I leave the carbohydrates in the iet, the issue could spread ll the way up the digestive tract and into the stomach. So obviously something needs to be done. The carbs in his dog food are going to kill him!
The vet recommended steroid shots every two weeks, and the MAXIMUM dose of antibiotic for his size. (a dose so high I was told to watch for lack of depth perception, uncoordination, and inability to walk straight like dragging hind legs) Also, some RX eukanuba low residue diet. 
He advised against taking diet into my own hands, but he said everything I needed to hear. To me it makes more sense to simply eliminate the high amount of carbs in his diet and put him on a species-appropriate diet, and avoid steroid shots and lifetime antibiotics altogether, right?

Now, I've read various places that it can be dangerous to feed raw meat to dogs with a compromised immune system. I know he has immune issues (hence the mange) and I know raw is more nutritious, so can someone please tell me it's perfectly ok to still give it to him raw despite his weak immune system so I can lay my doubt to rest?


I can not express what a relief it is to finally have the source of the problem pinpointed. I never expected to have the vet fix it, just diagnose so I could find a holistic solution. Wow, months of stress and doubt put to rest, and now I can FINALLY help my boy. :biggrin:


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

Various places are wrong. I think this myth came about because people envision raw meat as having bacteria 2 or 3 inches think crawling all over it. Actually a low immune system is a reason TO feed a prey model raw diet. It helps build a weakened immune system.


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

RawFedDogs said:


> Various places are wrong. I think this myth came about because people envision raw meat as having bacteria 2 or 3 inches think crawling all over it. Actually a low immune system is a reason TO feed a prey model raw diet. It helps build a weakened immune system.


Thank you again, RFD.
This is what everything I've learned has told me, but I just wanted o be absolutely sure.
I thought it would be fine, but just needed reassurence. I feel so guilty for literally feeding the problem to him all this time. :frown:


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Don't feel guilty. You didn't know. And now you are going to make him better by taking the carbs outta his diet right?! 

And I think that there is a HUGE misconception about raw meat not being suitable for immunocompromised dogs/cats. The bacterial count is lower than most kibbles out there...kibble is the perfect breeding ground for bacteria and it is certainly not manufactured in a sterile environment. 

Vets don't recommend a raw diet because they just don't know about it, at least most. I think as the raw movement becomes stronger...and it definitely is! more and more vets will realize that its actually ideal. So all they have to offer is the overpriced, prescription diets like the low residue stuff.


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

danemama08 said:


> Don't feel guilty. You didn't know. And now you are going to make him better by taking the carbs outta his diet right?!


Thanks. I know I shouldn't, but I can't help it. Don't get me wrong, I love all my dogs. I really do. Max, Champ, Grissom, and Annie are my world... but there's just "something" about griss that makes him special to me. I don't know how to explain it. I don't love him more than the others... he's just.. special. 



danemama08 said:


> And I think that there is a HUGE misconception about raw meat not being suitable for immunocompromised dogs/cats. The bacterial count is lower than most kibbles out there...kibble is the perfect breeding ground for bacteria and it is certainly not manufactured in a sterile environment.


I was pretty sure this was the case, it's just once you're read something over and over I just needed reassurance that I'm doing it right. He's been through sooo much. Poor guy.



danemama08 said:


> Vets don't recommend a raw diet because they just don't know about it, at least most. I think as the raw movement becomes stronger...and it definitely is! more and more vets will realize that its actually ideal. So all they have to offer is the overpriced, prescription diets like the low residue stuff.


Yeah, Pukanuba at $60+/bag. You gotta be kidding me. I'll take chicken quarters at $7/bag, please! lol.


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## BGBY (Sep 22, 2009)

I share your guilt with my Casey. :frown: I have to remember that I am changing for her benefit because if I don't change, she won't benefit! 

I have years of guilt built up because I never did the research on kibble. We fed Casey and Zachary from WalMart.  We were slowly killing her and I am convinced, it contributed to Zachary's death too because of the diet I was giving them. Zachary was over weight and had hip problems. Casey has severe issues with skin problems, stink, itchy, scaly skin and suffered seizures too there for awhile that came out of no where several years ago. 

I can't bring Zachary back but you know what? I am convinced if I had changed his diet to RAW atleast 6 months before I lost him, he may very well still be here with me getting his nubbins rubbed. He's still a part of our lives in spirit though. I think he would have greatly benefitted from it but alas, it will never be known and it does make my heart ache. I believe I did the best I could for them though, even in my ignorance. <I'm just being honest>:redface: 

I can only move on and I hope that you will do the same. We can't change the past but we can change now so it will make our futures better, not only for us but for our beloved pets too. 

I have seen Casey benefit from just a few weeks on RAW and I believe if you cut out the carbs for Grissom with a RAW Fed Diet, you too will see the benefits with Grissom. 

Also, I want to tell you I know that special love you and Grissom share. It's a love that Casey and I share. I love Ava to death but Casey and I have so much history together. She is no doubt, my bestest friend in the whole world and if I can do anything for her, even change my mentality to improve her life, DAMN IT!!! I'm gonna do it! :biggrin: She deserves it! 

Good Luck!


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

CorgiPaws said:


> Thanks. I know I shouldn't, but I can't help it. Don't get me wrong, I love all my dogs. I really do. Max, Champ, Grissom, and Annie are my world... but there's just "something" about griss that makes him special to me. I don't know how to explain it. I don't love him more than the others... he's just.. special.


No worries. I am on the same page with you on this with my baby girl Miss Bailey!!! Emmy is my "first born" but she's crazy...I still love her but she knows how to push my buttons. "Shiloh" is Jon's baby girl, and is a complete pain in the ass...but loved regardless. Akasha is still a silly puppy and growing into who she is so I can't say for sure if I will bond to her like I have with B. There's just something about her and I that bond to the core 

Bailey was my first Dane...I REALLY wish I would have kept one of her puppies...


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## rannmiller (Jun 27, 2008)

CorgiPaws said:


> Okay, Grissom went back to the vet today and it was the most productive visit of all time.
> Guess what's wrong with him? CARBOHYDRATE INTOLERENCE!


Bahaha, sorry, remember how I love irony? How did they end up discovering this, btw? 



CorgiPaws said:


> The carbs in his dog food are going to kill him!


As they tend to do to most dogs eventually...



CorgiPaws said:


> The vet recommended steroid shots every two weeks, and the MAXIMUM dose of antibiotic for his size. (a dose so high I was told to watch for lack of depth perception, uncoordination, and inability to walk straight like dragging hind legs) Also, some RX eukanuba low residue diet.


So load the poor puppy up with so much crap he literally cannot see straight, then feed him more of the stuff that's causing the problem? How the heck is that supposed to make sense?!? 



CorgiPaws said:


> He advised against taking diet into my own hands, but he said everything I needed to hear. To me it makes more sense to simply eliminate the high amount of carbs in his diet and put him on a species-appropriate diet, and avoid steroid shots and lifetime antibiotics altogether, right?


Right. Not THAT actually makes sense. See how you did that? If something is causing a problem, eliminate that factor, and it will solve the problem. Weird! 


CorgiPaws said:


> Now, I've read various places that it can be dangerous to feed raw meat to dogs with a compromised immune system. I know he has immune issues (hence the mange) and I know raw is more nutritious, so can someone please tell me it's perfectly ok to still give it to him raw despite his weak immune system so I can lay my doubt to rest?


As everyone else said but just to extra super reassure you, keeping carbs in his diet will kill him, you were just told this. Ergo, eliminating the carbs will keep him alive. Raw meat will keep his pancreas from having to lower its immune system by robbing other parts of the body of its enzymes in order to digest species-inappropriate food. Raw is as species-appropriate as it gets, so if you feed it, it will help boost his immune system. 


CorgiPaws said:


> I can not express what a relief it is to finally have the source of the problem pinpointed. I never expected to have the vet fix it, just diagnose so I could find a holistic solution. Wow, months of stress and doubt put to rest, and now I can FINALLY help my boy. :biggrin:


Yay! I'm so happy for you too! you have to keep us posted on how the raw works for Grissom!


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## rannmiller (Jun 27, 2008)

danemama08 said:


>


Those are some super cute squishy puppy faces!


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## Lynn In Tenn (Aug 20, 2009)

I know for a fact that I've ruined my 15y/o's teeth due to [email protected]!!!. She now wants to eat RMB's but can't due to my ignorance. I still feed her raw meat and no kibble cause she's too old to have any dental work done. I kick my a$$ every day for it. Be glad you now know the best thing to do for your dogs.:smile:
Carry on girl:biggrin:


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

rannmiller said:


> Bahaha, sorry, remember how I love irony? How did they end up discovering this, btw?


Well when we went it I told the vet that I didn't care how many tests they had to do, I wanted to know what was wrong with him. I explained in detail everything within the last few months that has happened with him. (this was finally MY vet seeing him.)I explained how he was on the Innova Puppy, doing wonderful, and then one day BAM, diarrhea. I waited it out, switched food, solid, then back to diarrhea, and so on through today. It's very comparable to SIBO and is often overlooked, as it's not that common so unless they're looking for it, it's easy to miss and just diagnose colitis, as the symptoms are so similar, and both lead up to chonic IBD. 
His body is overloaded with carbs, and the carbs are the breeding grounds for all bacteria and disease. They are acting like toxins in his little body, which also explains his compromised immune system working do hard. 
The antibiotics helped get it under control, which is why there was progress, but as long as he's eating carbs, any time he's off antibiotics, it will just come right back. Make sense?



rannmiller said:


> So load the poor puppy up with so much crap he literally cannot see straight, then feed him more of the stuff that's causing the problem? How the heck is that supposed to make sense?!?


Right, this is what made no sense to me. The vet told me it was the nasty things growing in his system causing the problem, and the carbs enabling the bacterias. But he didn't advise getting rid of the carbs? He outright old me he didn't think it was wise to take his diet into my own hands, but it's the only thing that makes sense. 
I'm sorry, but he is still a puppy, will be 1 year old on friday, and I'd rather euthanize him than take away his ability to run and play. If tha makes me a bad pet owner so be it, but what kind of quality of life is that for a young active Corgi? 
Call me crazy, but if it takes a dangerous amount of antibiotics and steroids every two weeks to keep th carbs under control in his body, then why not eliminate the carbs and bypass the treatment? Same end result, without any risks, everyone wins. 
Furthermore, the vet said that with the carb issues, he would more than likely develop Diabetes Mellitus which brings a whole other pack of treatments and junk with that as well with their own nasty side effects.
I feel like by changing his diet, I'm avoiding a world of treatments, therapies, and crap that would bring his quality of life down. When I brought him home as a 4lb ball of Corgi, I promised him I would do whatever it takes to take care of him and keep him happy.I'm keeping my promise. 



rannmiller said:


> Yay! I'm so happy for you too! you have to keep us posted on how the raw works for Grissom!


Thanks! We're thrilled to have an answer. It's a bit ironic that I wanted to do this anyway, an have been learning about this way of feeding, and now I have a dog that literally CAN NOT survive on kibble. (let's face it, as species inappropriate as kibble is, plenty of dogs live long healthy lives on it) What are the odds of that?
I did not give him dinner last night, and gave him the drumstick portion of a chicken quarter. He took to it like he'd been doing it for years. :biggrin: No poop yet, but we'll see how that turns out. I'm sure his body will take some time to flush all the problem-causing junk out.


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## g00dgirl (Nov 18, 2009)

I've followed you over from the boxer forum, I can't wait to hear how he responds to the Raw diet. Please update us on your vet's reaction as well :biggrin:

Good luck Grissom!


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

g00dgirl said:


> I've followed you over from the boxer forum, I can't wait to hear how he responds to the Raw diet. Please update us on your vet's reaction as well :biggrin:
> 
> Good luck Grissom!


Yayyyy, Boxerforums and Dogfoodchat collide!!! (psst, who is this, I know a couple people were checking dfc out?) :redface:haha. 
Grissom is doing wonderful on raw. Solid poop for two weeks now, that's better than he's done on any kibble for about seven months. I have updates on him in the raw section as well. I introduced turkey this morning, and he was totally diggin it. I'm so excited about how he's doing. 
I can't wait to get Annie banannie on raw. Little monkey. When I packaged up a month's worth of Griss' food last night, I had a drumstick left over, and gave it to Annie, and she thought that was WAYYYY cool. She's never excited about food but wow, that was the neatest thing she's ever seen. lol.


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## g00dgirl (Nov 18, 2009)

I have the same screen name on BF, my pups are Felix and Delilah... i'll try to get some pictures up later and do an intro here 

Great news about Griss


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

g00dgirl said:


> I have the same screen name on BF, my pups are Felix and Delilah... i'll try to get some pictures up later and do an intro here
> 
> Great news about Griss


oh, duhhhh me. 
I recognize pictures and signatures before usernames. lol. 
do an intro, stick around!:biggrin:
we're not NEARLY as big as BF, but we're pretty awesome. lol


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