# How do I tell a friend they are abusing or neglecting their dogs?..



## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

Please be aware that she truly does love her animals. She is always so excited to go home and see them. I've tried nudging her in the right direction, but she's had dogs longer than I have, and she just kind of thinks I am a hippie raw feedin' dog owner. 

I worked with her a long time ago but didn't really talk to her about animals much, I didn't have any dogs then. Bishop is my first dog and I've had him only a year! I recently saw her again and we've been hanging out a bit. I went to her house yesterday.. and was shocked. I originally didn't want to post this on here as I know people are so passionate about dogs. I just need some advice and you guys are probably the most knowledgeable dog people I know!

She has seven dogs that she owns. There were also two litters of puppies. She has a shar-pei bitch, a brindle pit bull, a dachshund (fixed), and four unfixed chihuahuas. Two females, two males. The shar-pei bred with the pitty and had thirteen puppies. One of the chihuahua females she thinks is pregnant and one has a litter of two pups. Obviously none are health tested. The shar-pei has a bite history and the pit bull was terrified of me. The dachshund was sweet and the chihuahuas seemed okay. All of the dogs are quite overweight and the dachshund is seriously obese. There was dog crap on the floor everywhere. I asked what she feeds them and it's some kind of food (dry) that you are supposed to add water to and it MAKES GRAVY! It wasn't like Honest kitchen or anything and I know it was cheap because she said she used to feed Dog Chow until it got too pricy. She uses apple juice (!!) to fatten the dogs up as well as she thinks a fat dog is a healthy dog. She saw Tess and Bishop and thinks I don't feed em enough.

The dogs do go for car rides but NEVER out for walks. It's sad. That;s actually what I am almost most upset about.. that none of her dogs get any kind of socialization or exercise time other than in the backyard playing.

I have asked her if she wants to go for a walk with our dogs sometime but she just said usually she is too busy and can't get away from the pups.

What do I do? Her dogs are getting food, water and shelter.


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

UGH...what a DIFFICULT situation!! Im sorry I really dont have any advice for you....but I feel for you!! :frown: Its hard having people who you actually like be so far from correct!!:frown:


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## Unosmom (May 3, 2009)

thats a tough situation, I dont know if I'd call it abuse, but an ignorance based neglect for sure. It depends where you stand on the friendship, you could sit down and seriously talk to her about the welfare of the animals and urge her to at least get her dogs fixed (you can give her resources to low cost spay/neuter places). But it sounds like she has way too many animals and some should be rehomed for sure. I dont know what your position is in this relationship and whether she'll even take you seriously, is there someone in her family that has more of an influence on her (not saying that you dont), maybe someone who feels the same way and wants to help out. 
Also contact humane society and ask if they can help out in this situation, not necessarily to take the animals away from her, but maybe they can give you tips and ideas on how to educate her about this matter. 
Keep us updated, its really an unfortunate situation, animals are so wonderful and loving and they should not be subjected to such treatment, intentional or not.


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## SerenityFL (Sep 28, 2010)

Caty M said:


> Please be aware that she truly does love her animals. She is always so excited to go home and see them. I've tried nudging her in the right direction, but she's had dogs longer than I have, and she just kind of thinks I am a hippie raw feedin' dog owner.
> 
> I worked with her a long time ago but didn't really talk to her about animals much, I didn't have any dogs then. Bishop is my first dog and I've had him only a year! I recently saw her again and we've been hanging out a bit. I went to her house yesterday.. and was shocked. I originally didn't want to post this on here as I know people are so passionate about dogs. I just need some advice and you guys are probably the most knowledgeable dog people I know!
> 
> ...


When you say, 'everywhere' do you mean, literally, EVERYwhere? And do you mean, INSIDE the house? Because if so, that IS neglect. And if she has that many dogs in the house, she's looking like a hoarder which is very neglectful. (I don't mean 7 dogs, I mean 7 dogs plus all those puppies. That is ridiculous.)

Lots of hoarders LOVE their animals but there are so many that they cannot keep up and they end up living in filth and do not get enough one on one time to become well rounded dogs. One dog bites, one dog is terrified? No, this is not a good environment.

If you really do care about those dogs, you may have to make an anonymous phone call and she may lose some of those animals. It's not to hurt her, it's to HELP her and especially to help those dogs. She clearly has too many and they are living in filth. That is not acceptable.


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

Ok, this is coming from someone who has had seven dogs, INSIDE the house... and someone who INTENDS to breed. 
That's a tough situation, and one that confronting the issue could do one of three things: 1) You could destroy a friendship, and nothing changes with the animals. 2) Nothing happens about the animals, but the friendship is not harmed. 3) She listens, takes heed to your advice, and changes are made. 
Having seven dogs in the house does NOT make someone a hoarder. Perhaps I am bias on that issue. Lol. Breeding your animals does NOT make you a hoarder. It is all about how the animals are kept, and how the breeding is gone about. 
About the poop- was it literally everywhere, INSIDE the house? If so, I do believe that legal action can be taken due to negligence and unsafe conditions. Having that many animals is a LOT of work to keep a house clean, but it certainly can be done, and if someone isn't willing to at least maintain SAFE conditions, they do not need 7 animals. My house is far from perfect, I keep my decor plain to make it easier to clean. I don't know how someone with a bunch of trinkets and such could maintain a house with so many animals!








But see, a home with 7 CAN be sanitary. 

Maybe ask why she lets her dogs breed in the first place? Offer resources, suggestions, etc. I think a lot of animal lovers simply take on too much, and get overwhelmed. While their intentions are good, they get in over their heads and simply don't know how to fix it.


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## mel2mdl (Sep 7, 2008)

As much as I hate to say it, in most places having 7 dogs is not legal. If she has more than 3 breeding females, you are supposed to have a license. She is obviously not breeding well by your description - no health testing, bite history, mixed breeds. 7 dogs, plus puppies, plus crap everywhere is not a person who has the resources to care properly for the animals. It also sounds like she is not open to listening to your suggestions. A phone call to animal welfare might not be out of order at this point. At least the dogs would be spayed/neutered then - depending on where you live!


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## chowder (Sep 7, 2008)

PuppyPaws said:


> My house is far from perfect, I keep my decor plain to make it easier to clean. I don't know how someone with a bunch of trinkets and such could maintain a house with so many animals!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Actually, compared to mine, your home IS perfect!!! But.......I am keeping that picture so I can convince my husband that it is possible to have leather furniture AND cats at the same time!! (We got our leather furniture after the last cat 'aged' out and it's been his excuse for no more cats ever since).


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## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

Puppypaws, I have two small dogs (NO DANES!!) and your house is 10x cleaner than mine!!

I don't think having seven dogs makes you a hoarder. I think seven dogs makes you have a problem if you are not picking up after them, not exercising them, or training/socializing them. I think the 'abuse' thing came up because after Tessie who came to me terrified around dogs and is still nervous even with an hour or more a day of work.. not socializing IS abuse to me. People laugh sometimes when a dog came up to her and she would scream.. but to me that's not funny at all. She was terrified!! Thankfully with the work she is much better now. I just can't imagine setting a dog up to act like that around strange dogs purposefully or through lack of caring.

There is dog crap in the house. Not a ton of it, but it's there. The backyard was caked in it.

I am not sure if she fits being a hoarder as what I know comes from the A&E show, Hoarders, LOL. But from what she's told me, she gets rid of dogs and gets new ones pretty frequently if she gets one and doesn't like it. Like she will buy BYB dogs, once they are a year and have bad habits, sell or give away then buy a new one. Her house doesn't have a ton of furniture or junk at all, either. 

I will make a call later to the humane society and see what they at least say about it.

Chowder.. don't get leather!! My cats have torn mine up!!

Offtopic, but, does anyone know what food 'makes gravy' when water is added? It wasn't just 'kibble in water' it was like a soup with kibble bits in it.


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## danecolor (Nov 22, 2010)

Caty M said:


> Offtopic, but, does anyone know what food 'makes gravy' when water is added? It wasn't just 'kibble in water' it was like a soup with kibble bits in it.


it's probably "Gravy Train" dog food. here's the ingredients list for their "beef" flavor:

_Corn, Soybean Meal, Meat & Bone Meal, Animal Fat (Preserved With BHA), Animal Digest, Wheat Flour, Salt, Cellulose Gum, Caramel Color, Vitamins (Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin Supplement, Vitamin A Supplement, D-Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin, Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Folic Acid, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement), Minerals (Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Manganous Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite), Choline Chloride, Dried Beef Stock, Red 40, Yellow 5, Spray Dried Beef, Yellow 6, Blue 2, BHA._

pretty gross stuff...


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Well, I know a real-life hoarder (more than 50 dogs, more than 50 cats and none ever see the outside of the house) and she loves her animals more than words can say. She will tell you that 100 times a day, how much she loves loves loves them. She will also deny she's a hoarder to her dying breath.

Hoarders don't start with 100 animals - they start with one. Your friend gets rid of a lot of dogs though, so it could just be she's a nasty housekeeper. And alot of people neglect their dogs, and they are not hoarders. Mostly it won't come up to the standards for any kind of seizure by officials. It's not illegal to not walk your dogs, and it's not illegal to not socialize them or keep them cooped up in the house, or not feed them properly. They have to pretty much be starved to death or horribly physically abused before something happens -and even then, it's iffy. I am amazed at how badly we can treat our animals, and still be perfectly legal.


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## lucky (Jan 8, 2011)

Unfortunately I have family that are the same, they have 5 small dogs ... 2 chi mixes 1 male, 1 female, 1 chi male, 1 yorkie female and 1 female dachshund (the chi mixes are offspring from chi and yorkie, thankfully both males are neutered now so no more puppies) ... they are all VERY unsociable, constantly bark at the tiniest sound, they pee everywhere (poo everywhere too but they eat it so no one sees it as a problem :shocked they are fed on supermarket brand kibble with all the leftovers from dinner (potatoes, veg, custard etc ... :twitch ... they hardly go on walks and when they do they bark the whole time ... their owners doesn't think there's a problem because they get bathed, brushed, fed, watered and cuddled, they can't see that their dogs are unhappy/nervous etc, the yorkie female will not eat if her owner isn't around, will also make herself sick ... the 1 chi mix in particular is quite aggressive, he has snapped at lucky more than once, even snapped at my husband ... the dachshund is about 11 and more than double her ideal weight, she just eats all day because there are bowls of food left down all the time ... I have tried and tried to explain to them but it goes in one ear and out the other, they believe that they are doing a good job. They were asking me the other week how much it costs to feed lucky, I saw a glimmer of hope that they were going to start to turn their ways around but no, when i told them it costs me about £15 per month to feed lucky they said "only costs us £15 per month to feed 5 dogs, think we will stick to that" hwell:


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## SerenityFL (Sep 28, 2010)

PuppyPaws said:


> Ok, this is coming from someone who has had seven dogs, INSIDE the house... and someone who INTENDS to breed.
> That's a tough situation, and one that confronting the issue could do one of three things: 1) You could destroy a friendship, and nothing changes with the animals. 2) Nothing happens about the animals, but the friendship is not harmed. 3) She listens, takes heed to your advice, and changes are made.
> Having seven dogs in the house does NOT make someone a hoarder. Perhaps I am bias on that issue. Lol. Breeding your animals does NOT make you a hoarder. It is all about how the animals are kept, and how the breeding is gone about.
> About the poop- was it literally everywhere, INSIDE the house? If so, I do believe that legal action can be taken due to negligence and unsafe conditions. Having that many animals is a LOT of work to keep a house clean, but it certainly can be done, and if someone isn't willing to at least maintain SAFE conditions, they do not need 7 animals. My house is far from perfect, I keep my decor plain to make it easier to clean. I don't know how someone with a bunch of trinkets and such could maintain a house with so many animals!
> ...


Ok, you need to take EVERYTHING that was written in my response to her friend being a hoarder and not JUST the number of dogs. I expressed that, clearly.

Again, I did not say that because she has 7 dogs she is a hoarder. But she has 7 dogs plus a crap load of puppies, and they are living in filth. She does not exercise them. One is a biter, one is fearful. That is the sign of a hoarder. It does NOT mean that any body who has 7 dogs is a hoarder.


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## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

I think she said before that people were criticizing her for having a lot of dogs so it's probably just a sensitive issue. I'm sure she knows you don't think she is one. If you can take care of seven dogs, it's absolutely fine, if they still are receiving training and affection. I just think it's NOT ok having seven dogs and not having training, good food, clean conditions, socialization times.. and having badly bred dogs. If she had only one dog I'd have the same issue, maybe not as badly.


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

SerenityFL said:


> Ok, you need to take EVERYTHING that was written in my response to her friend being a hoarder and not JUST the number of dogs. I expressed that, clearly.
> 
> Again, I did not say that because she has 7 dogs she is a hoarder. But she has 7 dogs plus a crap load of puppies, and they are living in filth. She does not exercise them. One is a biter, one is fearful. That is the sign of a hoarder. It does NOT mean that any body who has 7 dogs is a hoarder.


Serenity: I did take everything you said, my response wasn't in direct response to yours, silly. I know you weren't trying to say that anyone with that many dogs is a hoarder.... don't you have 7 cats yourself? LOL. 

My point was simply that having 7 (or even 10) dogs doesn't make one a hoarder, nor does breeding.... it's all in how it is managed. (which I think was your point, too) I also think that the stories of people who keep their multiple dogs in bad conditions give those of us who DO manage a livable house with this many animals a bad name right off the bat, that's all. 

And thank you for the compliments on my house! It is... bland... but that's the only way I can manage to maintain any level of sanity. I think anyone on my facebook page could testify to the fact that if I'm home I always seem to be cleaning my floors, or dusting. I can't even BELIEVE the amounts of dust that can accumulate in my house in ONE day's time. Dust will be the death of me. I can't even fathom someone having seven dogs and not making cleaning a daily habit, atleast not seven BIG dogs, and apparently living in the dustiest house EVER. -facepalm-


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

I like your house Linsey, it's tasteful, simple, clean but still looks comfy and inviting.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

i have never been successful in nudging people into the right direction...and i wouldn't know where to start....

people believe what they believe and they don't look at dogs in the same light as we do....some of us on this forum don't look at dogs the way some of us do.....

it is so sad that dogs are treated as chattel or things without souls...but they are...

and caty? when i was practising and i would talk to children about the abuse rained down upon them...the first thing they would say is 'my mommy loves me, but.....'

and the truth is...the mommy did not know how to love, so no, she didn't love her child....she was ignorant and mean..

your friend does not love her dogs. if she did, she would provide an environment suitable for dogs and humans....she would get them shots and get them fixed, avoid unwanted pregnancies and perform the most basic of care......

i think i would probably say that to her and i would no longer be friends with her...sorry to be so blunt...but my truth comes from seeing how a person treats an animal....how could she possibly treat me with respect if she doesn't respect a dog.

i feel for you, i really do.


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## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

Yeah.. I will have to say something to her. I guess if she decides to take major offense to it, well I'd risk the friendship for sure in the off chance it may do some good for her mutts.


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## KittyKat (Feb 11, 2011)

If her house isn't in good shape and they are pooping inside the house... well, if she doesn't respond to what you say perhaps calling the local animal authority would be in order?


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

Caty M said:


> Yeah.. I will have to say something to her. I guess if she decides to take major offense to it, well I'd risk the friendship for sure in the off chance it may do some good for her mutts.


i don't know if i like this as part of my own character, but i do judge others with their animals. 

seems to me the way people treat animals over which they have complete power is something to watch......because if they treat animals like your friend does....that tells me there is little regard for people, too.


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