# i need some advice for a senior golden retriever



## bett (Mar 15, 2012)

who now has low gravity in her urine.

they won't do raw, currently feed wellness.
having an ultrasound this week. dog is drinking more, peeing more. all bloods normal.

they currently feed wellness. i know the old way of thinking is _less protein_ but i don't believe that is correct.
wet food? i suggested weruva if they go that route. 

any ideas?

they're all leaving for california for the winter, next week.
i so don't want them to put her on the prescription *crap* that i fear the vet will offer. 
no offense taken please, i just have my own opinions.


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## Shamrockmommy (Sep 10, 2009)

Certainly I'm no expert but every time I've tried to feed wellness, my dogs have ended up with some urinary issue. Wondering if it could just be that?


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## bett (Mar 15, 2012)

she's been on wellness forever. and she's 11. it's something that often happens with senior dogs. but bloods don't show diabetes, cushing, addisons…….


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## _unoriginal (Apr 8, 2012)

Maybe get the thyroid checked?


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## bett (Mar 15, 2012)

i think they checked thyroid, cushiness, addisons


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## Celt (Dec 27, 2010)

I had a very old golden when he started to slow down, and developed the "old dog syndrome" (vet's words), I started adding in cooked meats (mostly boiled with the broth), canned (he didn't thrill for most, except the "bad" ones, i.e. beneful), and pet botanics (not botanical) meat roll.


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## Dr Dolittle (Aug 2, 2013)

Well, it's great the blood work is still good. I am assuming they checked BUN, Creatinine, phosphorus, etc. I am sure the vet discussed possible kidney insufficiency. Unfortunately (or fortunately) the kidneys are so well designed that almost 2/3 of their function can be destroyed before the blood work will show it. Usually the first sign is their inability to concentrate urine. I am well aware of your belief system as you know mine so no need to go there, but whatever you try, if those blood levels start to rise that prescription crap may very well give you a lot more precious time with your old friend. Renal and urinary diets, both canine and feline, are probably the most proven, most researched, and most used of the vet diets. You will be able to judge by the results. Can't cure these age related diseases but the idea is to have your dog pass one day with kidney disease, not from kidney disease. I wish you the best. I am sure you'll take good care of him/her.


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## Jace (Oct 3, 2012)

As Dr.Doolittle mentioned, there are specific things that should have been checked such as BUN Creatinine etc. THE single most important thing to do if Renal insufficiency is showing ( I am assuming based on Urine Specific Gravity) is to reduce Phos. There are many great diets out there that are reduced Phos, and still have good quality protein sources. Sodium reduction can also be beneficial as you go down the road, as many dogs are hypertensive. Increasing Omega 3's is also beneficial, as is the use of CoQ10 (relatively new research).
There are differing schools of thought regarding reducing protein, as this can have a significant effect on BUN levels, however alot of the research shows this finding to be insignificant (ie a drop in BUN doesn't really indicate anything..)
You are best to do you your research , I believe, and get onto some good CRF groups on yahoo or FB. There are also many nutritionists formulating diets specifically for this issue, and you can adjust as the disease progresses, or with changes.
A bit of research for ya Influence of dietary protein on renal function in dogs. [J Nutr. 1991] - PubMed - NCBI


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## bett (Mar 15, 2012)

ultrasound showed only some calcification of her old kidneys. everything else tests out perfectly fine.

will speak (email) my friend tomorrow and see what was suggested for food, if any changes. some say lower protein, while the newer thoughts are not so.
we shall see.

and thanks jace, for that article. just what i was talking about.


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## Dr Dolittle (Aug 2, 2013)

Jace is right on. Everything I have read on renal issues and protein still leaves you with the question of When, not if. It can be confusing because in the old days it was lower the protein amt. That was kinda correct but we have learned since that the phosphorus in the protein is the real culprit, thus you hear terms like higher quality protein. Now that's confusing too because usually that means meat proteins, true for healthy kidneys, but with renal insufficiency/renal disease, the term higher quality means lower phosphorus. that is done by a food company buying the best, purest meat sources with the least bone and junk, but also using alternative protein sources, such a corn gluten meal, an excellent source of amino acids but with no nitrogen waste to overtax the kidneys. Now corn gluten meal will be demonized by so called dog food experts because they don't understand or want to understand its purpose. In fact for renal cats (true carnivores) corn gluten meal is critical to keeping their kidneys as healthy as possible. This is a good example of really NOT wanting meat first on the ingredient panel! But again, to put it simply, Jace is right! get actual phosphorus and sodium levels. I wouldn't even bother looking at protein. A low phosphorus diet will be providing optimal protein. Good luck!


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## Dr Dolittle (Aug 2, 2013)

Jace said:


> As Dr.Doolittle mentioned, there are specific things that should have been checked such as BUN Creatinine etc. THE single most important thing to do if Renal insufficiency is showing ( I am assuming based on Urine Specific Gravity) is to reduce Phos. There are many great diets out there that are reduced Phos, and still have good quality protein sources. Sodium reduction can also be beneficial as you go down the road, as many dogs are hypertensive. Increasing Omega 3's is also beneficial, as is the use of CoQ10 (relatively new research).
> There are differing schools of thought regarding reducing protein, as this can have a significant effect on BUN levels, however alot of the research shows this finding to be insignificant (ie a drop in BUN doesn't really indicate anything..)
> You are best to do you your research , I believe, and get onto some good CRF groups on yahoo or FB. There are also many nutritionists formulating diets specifically for this issue, and you can adjust as the disease progresses, or with changes.
> A bit of research for ya Influence of dietary protein on renal function in dogs. [J Nutr. 1991] - PubMed - NCBI


Jace, you must be in the field, huh?


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