# Orijen Vs Fromms



## tonkasdad

Hello everyone. I am new here but I have lots of questions. First I have a 10 month old Caviler King Charles Spaniel. I am currently feeding him Life's Abundance but it's time for a change. I was debating either Orijen or Fromms. I saw that orijen is 38% protein and thought that might be way too high for a Cav. Also I don't know whether I should go grain or grain-free. 

Thanks.


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## Candyd

Hello,
Except for a few individuals, there is no upper limit for protein content. 38% or even more is fine for most dogs, even sedentary dogs. But some dogs have problems with foods which are rich in carbohydrates. A lower protein and fat percentage almost always mean a higher starch content, which isn't really healthy.
Grains are useless and can even be bad for a lot of dogs. Some proteins from grains (gluten) are allergens, and their biological value is low. Grains can contain mycotoxins. And they are extremely rich in starch that dogs can't easily digest. 
Personally, I prefer Orijen, especially because it isn't too high in carbohydrates and because of its higher meat content. However, I haven't tested their new line. But Fromm is a good brand too. Why not make your dog try both ?


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## tonkasdad

Candyd said:


> Hello,
> Except for a few individuals, there is no upper limit for protein content. 38% or even more is fine for most dogs, even sedentary dogs. But some dogs have problems with foods which are rich in carbohydrates. A lower protein and fat percentage almost always mean a higher starch content, which isn't really healthy.
> Grains are useless and can even be bad for a lot of dogs. Some proteins from grains (gluten) are allergens, and their biological value is low. Grains can contain mycotoxins. And they are extremely rich in starch that dogs can't easily digest.
> Personally, I prefer Orijen, especially because it isn't too high in carbohydrates and because of its higher meat content. However, I haven't tested their new line. But Fromm is a good brand too. Why not make your dog try both ?


Thanks, I will try both. I actually bought fromms today so maybe I'll try that for a few months then orijen.


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## Jacksons Mom

I don't feel excess protein is necessary for most pet dogs. I would pick Fromm over Orijen. However, if you want to stay with Champion Foods, try Acana ... 'sister' product to Orijen, but more suitable for pet dogs IMO. 

Fromm is a better company IMO as well.


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## RawPitbulls

Orijen 100%


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## tonkasdad

RawPitbulls said:


> Orijen 100%


Yes but remember I have a small lazy dog.


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## Felix

i use Acana, a more appropriate food for pets imo, however, my dog is doing very well on EVO.


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## Candyd

tonkasdad said:


> Yes but remember I have a small lazy dog.


My dog eats Orijen, and canned food which is even richer in protein and fat, and it's not too rich for him at all. All dogs are different and Orijen doesn't make all dogs overweight. Look at your food's metabolizable energy (calorie content). It is the only way to know if a food is appropriate for a sedentary / active dog or not. If you're concerned by a high calorie content (equal or superior to 4000 kcal / kg or more), foods like Evo weight management and Orijen senior are good. But you still can use a food with a higher calorie content if you want, and because you would have to reduce the quantity of food to give, it's cheaper on long term.


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## tonkasdad

Candyd said:


> My dog eats Orijen, and canned food which is even richer in protein and fat, and it's not too rich for him at all. All dogs are different and Orijen doesn't make all dogs overweight. Look at your food's metabolizable energy (calorie content). It is the only way to know if a food is appropriate for a sedentary / active dog or not. If you're concerned by a high calorie content (equal or superior to 4000 kcal / kg or more), foods like Evo weight management and Orijen senior are good. But you still can use a food with a higher calorie content if you want, and because you would have to reduce the quantity of food to give, it's cheaper on long term.


Well, I guess I'll give it a try with my Cav. Hopefully it will be good. Thanks for the help!


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## brindle

Every dog I have tried Orijen or Acana on has exceedingly bad breath/bad teeth as well as plenty of itching. Orijen gave fosters diarrhea, guaranteed, every time (giving slightly less then the bag recommendation).


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## tonkasdad

brindle said:


> Every dog I have tried Orijen or Acana on has exceedingly bad breath/bad teeth as well as plenty of itching. Orijen gave fosters diarrhea, guaranteed, every time (giving slightly less then the bag recommendation).


Wow that's not good.


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## tonkasdad

Also, out of all the fromms dog food which one of the grain-free is the best?


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## Dobelover

When we fed kibble, we tried orijen and acana...we liked how it was made in Canada and sourced local fresh ingredients. Bit our dog didn't do well on either. We used Fomm and he did better...he was a large breed so we used the large breed Gold formula. I would also recommend the Go! line from Petcurean. Our dog had the best stools on that food by far. But again, every dog is different. I hope you find one that works well for you!


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## DDBsR4Me

My boy was on Orijen 6 Fish until just recently and was doing very well on. The only reason I have switched him is my dog food store just got the new formulas in (with the lentils) and my boy didn't care for the taste. 

So right now he is on Fromm Salmon Tunalini...though I'm not that he's really liking it as much as I had thought when I had bought him a sample bag of it. 

I might try Nulo Endurance, if I can get the company to respond to me via email or phone.


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## tonkasdad

DDBsR4Me said:


> My boy was on Orijen 6 Fish until just recently and was doing very well on. The only reason I have switched him is my dog food store just got the new formulas in (with the lentils) and my boy didn't care for the taste.
> 
> So right now he is on Fromm Salmon Tunalini...though I'm not that he's really liking it as much as I had thought when I had bought him a sample bag of it.
> 
> I might try Nulo Endurance, if I can get the company to respond to me via email or phone.


My dog is on Salmon Tunalini now. He has a little bit of loose stool but he just got off antibiotics so I don't know if its from that or the food.


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## Candyd

tonkasdad said:


> Also, out of all the fromms dog food which one of the grain-free is the best?


Their quality is the same. Personally, I prefer to use different foods, with different meats, to be sure my dog's needs are covered on long term.


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## tonkasdad

Has anyone heard of canine caviar and is it any good?


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## bett

i rotate between the fromm gf and their 4 star , with grain.
family owned company (a zillion yrs) and never a recall.

canine caviar claims they help keep cancer away.
wouldnt it be nice if that were true?


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## meggels

tonkasdad said:


> Has anyone heard of canine caviar and is it any good?


I tried it with my french bulldog for about two weeks, and he did pretty bad on it. Awful gas and his stools never firmed up in two weeks. They were like soft serve the whole time.

He's on Annamaet Aqualuk now and is doing so much better.


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## PDXdogmom

I've tried most of the brands mentioned in this thread.

Of the Fromm grain-free formulas, I think the Surf & Turf (their original grain-free) is the best formulated. The Beef Frittata and Game Bird both rely on "pea protein" as a primary ingredient which isn't ideal in my book. They've never had a recall which is a big plus.

I don't think the new formulas of Orijen or Acana are as good as the originals back from five years ago when I had a puppy. The reliance on lentils as a protein booster isn't a positive. Some posts mentioned a breath problem with dogs eating Orijen; and I just remembered my son recently saying that his dog (eating Orijen exclusively) has really developed bad breath.

Canine Caviar really revamped there formulas plus came out with a lot of new ones in the past two years. Their cancer claim is disingenuous to say the least. They have moved around to a variety of manufacturing plants (believe they are with Chenango Valley now) and are currently being sued by Ohio Pet Foods. Of their grain-frees, two rely on chickpeas as the 2nd ingredient which is capable of providing a lot of protein. The other two grain-free formulas only have 26% protein. My two dogs developed major ear issues while eating the Canine Caviar Chicken and Pearl Millet.

Both my dogs have been eating Annamaet Aqualuk for the past several months and I haven't been this pleased in a long time - both with the company and with the outcome.


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## brindle

PDXdogmom said:


> I've tried most of the brands mentioned in this thread.
> 
> Of the Fromm grain-free formulas, I think the Surf & Turf (their original grain-free) is the best formulated. The Beef Frittata and Game Bird both rely on "pea protein" as a primary ingredient which isn't ideal in my book. They've never had a recall which is a big plus.
> 
> I don't think the new formulas of Orijen or Acana are as good as the originals back from five years ago when I had a puppy. The reliance on lentils as a protein booster isn't a positive. Some posts mentioned a breath problem with dogs eating Orijen; and I just remembered my son recently saying that his dog (eating Orijen exclusively) has really developed bad breath.
> 
> Canine Caviar really revamped there formulas plus came out with a lot of new ones in the past two years. Their cancer claim is disingenuous to say the least. They have moved around to a variety of manufacturing plants (believe they are with Chenango Valley now) and are currently being sued by Ohio Pet Foods. Of their grain-frees, two rely on chickpeas as the 2nd ingredient which is capable of providing a lot of protein. The other two grain-free formulas only have 26% protein. My two dogs developed major ear issues while eating the Canine Caviar Chicken and Pearl Millet.
> 
> Both my dogs have been eating Annamaet Aqualuk for the past several months and I haven't been this pleased in a long time - both with the company and with the outcome.


VERY bad breath on Acana for my girl and a lot more tarter build up. I had to brush her teeth every day and now I only have to once a week on Healthwise. 
I am going to be using either Horizon Complete, Satori, or Now for the next food choice. I also really like the look of Nutri-source.


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## tonkasdad

Has anyone heard of life's abundance? That's what I used to feed my dog before I recently switched him to fromms. Just wanted to see what you guys thought of Lifes Abundance.


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## Unosmom

I would personally go with Acana or Fromm. In my experience Orijen doesnt work for all dogs, especially those who are inactive and easily put on weight. Acana has little less protein which is more appropriate for average activity dogs.


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## riddick4811

Neither as I never had either brand really work for any of my dogs. Fromm Surf and Turf was probably the best one. Pongo ate it for a while. He really liked the Beef Frittata, but he has loose poop and coat quality wasn't good. My dogs all had loose stool on Fromm 4 star line. No matter how little I fed or what I did. Poop was never firm. My neighbors dog didn't well on Fromm either hence the reason I ended up trying to many of their formulas as I got their leftovers. My roommates dog did do well on Fromm Classic. Never tried Fromm Gold. I do prefer Acana over Orijen. The Duck and Bartlett pear was the best formula I fed the dogs. 

Petcurean Go! or NOW! would be my favorite of the higher end foods if that is what you want to stick with. All my dogs could eat NOW w/o issue, the fat lazy ones to the active high energy ones from small to giant. That is pretty rare in my experience with foods! 

Annamaet is another good choice.


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## Sillydogs

Whats the difference between having peas or potatoes in kibble? Acana has a few real meats as 1st ingredients and then potatoe in there, whereas another good kibble has 1 meat meal and then peas.


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## lauren43

My only addition is that my parents 12lb Maltese shih tzu mix did not do well on Orijen. She had constant yeasty ears, was very itchy, not sure that she gained weight but you really can't feed a little dog much on this food...I just feel its a very rich food, geared towards active dogs. She's now on Horizon Pulsar and doing fantastic!


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## Candyd

Sillydogs said:


> Whats the difference between having peas or potatoes in kibble? Acana has a few real meats as 1st ingredients and then potatoe in there, whereas another good kibble has 1 meat meal and then peas.


Potatoes have a high glycemic index, which isn't good, but it has very few vegetable proteins (and as vegetable proteins aren't good for dogs' kidneys, it's a good thing). Peas have a very low glycemic index, which is great, but they're rich in bad proteins, and are often used to add cheap vegetable proteins to foods. For this reason, I prefer potatoes to peas, but I prefer sweet potatoes to potatoes and peas, as their glycemic index is moderate and they contain very few vegetable proteins.


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## meggels

I honestly have become less and less a fan of Orijen as time has gone on. Very rarely do I hear a dog doing well on that food...it's almost always negative reviews. Even if it looks great on paper, that doesn't seem to help when so few dogs seem to do well on it. And then factor in the crazy price tag...no thank you.

I really like Now as well. Abbie is on that now and does fantastic on it.


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## tonkasdad

I'm noticing since switching my dog to fromms, he is having loose stools. Is that normal?


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## Ziggy

Ii am switching my dogs from Organix to Fromm; Ziggy is doing great on the 4 Star Chicken Ala Veg however Allie still has the loose stools she had on the Organix though I was only giving her 1/2 cup of Fromm and 1 cup of Organix at each meal; last night I gave Allie the Gold formula from sample packs and this morning she had an almost normal stool; also last night I gave each of them a tablespoon of the Gold Duck/Chicken Pate instead of the Organix wet food. I am going to order a bag of the Gold and see how they do - perhaps the Gold is better for Allie.


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## tonkasdad

meggels said:


> I honestly have become less and less a fan of Orijen as time has gone on. Very rarely do I hear a dog doing well on that food...it's almost always negative reviews. Even if it looks great on paper, that doesn't seem to help when so few dogs seem to do well on it. And then factor in the crazy price tag...no thank you.
> 
> I really like Now as well. Abbie is on that now and does fantastic on it.


Is the NOW dog food appropriate for a reduced activity dog?


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## meggels

tonkasdad said:


> Is the NOW dog food appropriate for a reduced activity dog?


I would think so...here is the "adult" formula:

De-boned turkey, potato flour, peas, apples, whole dried egg, pea fibre, tomato, potatoes, flaxseed, canola oil (preserved with mixed tocopherols), natural flavour, salmon, de-boned duck, sundried alfalfa, coconut oil (preserved with mixed tocopherols), carrots, pumpkin, bananas, blueberries, cranberries, raspberries, blackberries, papayas, pineapple, grapefruit, lentil beans, broccoli, spinach, cottage cheese, alfalfa sprouts, dried kelp, calcium carbonate, dicalcium phosphate, lecithin, sodium chloride, potassium chloride, vitamins (vitamin E supplement, L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (a source of vitamin C), niacin, inositol, vitamin A supplement, thiamine mononitrate, d-calcium pantothenate, pyridoxine hydrochloride, riboflavin, beta-carotene, vitamin D3 supplement, folic acid, biotin, vitamin B12 supplement), minerals (zinc proteinate , ferrous sulphate, zinc oxide, iron proteinate, copper sulphate, copper proteinate, manganese proteinate, manganous oxide, calcium iodate, selenium yeast), taurine, DL-methionine, L-lysine, dried chicory root, dried Lactobacillus acidophilus fermentation product, dried Enterococcus faecium fermentation product, dried Aspergillus niger fermentation product, dried Aspergillus oryzae fermentation product, yeast extract, yucca schidigera extract, marigold, L-carnitine, dried rosemary.

Crude protein (min)	26%
Crude fat (min)	16%
Crude fibre (max)	3.5%
Moisture (max)	10%
Calcium (min)	1.1%
Phosphorus (min)	0.7%
*Omega 6 (min)	2.5%
*Omega 3 (min)	0.5%
Calorie Content: ME (Calculated) = 3598 kcal/kg or 378 kcal/cup


there is also a "senior" formula, if you were really worried:

De-boned turkey, potato flour, apples, pea fibre, peas, potatoes, tomato, sundried alfalfa, canola oil (preserved with mixed tocopherols), natural flavour, salmon, de-boned duck, coconut oil (preserved with mixed tocopherols), whole dried egg, flaxseed, carrots, pumpkin, bananas, blueberries, cranberries, raspberries, blackberries, papayas, pineapple, grapefruit, lentil beans, broccoli, spinach, cottage cheese, alfalfa sprouts, dried kelp, calcium carbonate, dicalcium phosphate, lecithin, sodium chloride, potassium chloride, vitamins (vitamin E supplement, L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (a source of vitamin C), niacin, inositol, vitamin A supplement, thiamine mononitrate, d-calcium pantothenate, pyridoxine hydrochloride, riboflavin, beta-carotene, vitamin D3 supplement, folic acid, biotin, vitamin B12 supplement), minerals (zinc proteinate , ferrous sulphate, zinc oxide, iron proteinate, copper sulphate, copper proteinate, manganese proteinate, manganous oxide, calcium iodate, selenium yeast), taurine, DL-methionine, L-lysine, glucosamine hydrochloride, dried chicory root, dried Lactobacillus acidophilus fermentation product, dried Enterococcus faecium fermentation product, dried Aspergillus niger fermentation product, dried Aspergillus oryzae fermentation product, yeast extract, yucca schidigera extract, chondroitin sulphate, marigold, L-carnitine, dried rosemary.

Crude protein (min)	24%
Crude fat (min)	10%
Crude fibre (max)	6%
Moisture (max)	10%
Phosphorus (min)	0.7%
*Glucosamine (min)	400 mg/kg
*Chondroitin Sulphate (min)	100 mg/kg
*L-Carnitine (min)	100 mg/kg
*Taurine (min)	600 mg/kg
*Omega 6 (min)	2.4%
*Omega 3 (min)	0.48%
Calorie Content: ME (Calculated) = 3252 kcal/kg or 341 kcal/cup


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## Candyd

Now is really poor in meat IMO. I prefer Go (especially the Fit + Free line and the new Sensitivity + Shine with turkey), which is made by Petcurean too, and which is much richer in meat. I don't give this brand to my dog, but I give it to my cat. She loves it and her stools are firm.


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## shellbeme

tonkasdad said:


> Has anyone heard of canine caviar and is it any good?


I think it's an excellent kibble. I am also a fromm fan but I have one dog in particular that is very sensitive and through all the kibbles I have tried, threw up several times a week. Canine Caviar is the only kibble that he can manage to keep down regularly. I think it's excellent for dogs with sensitivities. If it weren't for that though, we'd be on Fromm.


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## tonkasdad

shellbeme said:


> I think it's an excellent kibble. I am also a fromm fan but I have one dog in particular that is very sensitive and through all the kibbles I have tried, threw up several times a week. Canine Caviar is the only kibble that he can manage to keep down regularly. I think it's excellent for dogs with sensitivities. If it weren't for that though, we'd be on Fromm.


Well he is on fromm now and he is having loose stools.


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## meggels

tonkasdad said:


> Well he is on fromm now and he is having loose stools.


Are you just transitioning to it? It can take a few weeks for the dogs stools to firm up.

The first week and a half or so that Murph was on Annamaet, his stools were a little loose...and now they are perfect.


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## tonkasdad

meggels said:


> Are you just transitioning to it? It can take a few weeks for the dogs stools to firm up.
> 
> The first week and a half or so that Murph was on Annamaet, his stools were a little loose...and now they are perfect.


Ya pretty much just transitioned to it recently.


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## Jacksons Mom

I could never get his stools 100% where I liked them on Fromm. Don't know if it's just too complicated for him, is the fiber content is not the greatest, or what. But we did their grain-frees, Gold, etc, for over 6 months. Everything else was fine, he did well for the most part, but stool was always a bit softer than I 'like'. He also got a bit chubbier. Now when I say this, he looked it to ME, no one else probably would've thought so... but I think his body condition has improved so much already and we're only on our first 6lb bag of Now Grain-Free. His stools are so much better on the Petcurean foods for some reason. We have a few samples of Go! as well.

The food game kinda sucks. I was perfectly content feeding him Acana for 2yrs and he always did so well. Then they went and changed their formulas. And I don't like the changes, nor the change in price, and the decrease in bag size. Heard of lots of yorkies getting itchy on the new formulas. It's a shame. So I'm still looking for that perfect food for my guy. I have the bag of Now, which he's been eating, and some Go! samples. I also got some Annamaet samples in the mail. Oh and my friend was feeding Natural Balance Synergy so I have a baggy sample of that, haha. Right now it's going to a guessing game with what food he LIKES best and what he does the best on.


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## jaber6

Jacksons Mom said:


> I could never get his stools 100% where I liked them on Fromm. Don't know if it's just too complicated for him, is the fiber content is not the greatest, or what. But we did their grain-frees, Gold, etc, for over 6 months. Everything else was fine, he did well for the most part, but stool was always a bit softer than I 'like'. He also got a bit chubbier. Now when I say this, he looked it to ME, no one else probably would've thought so... but I think his body condition has improved so much already and we're only on our first 6lb bag of Now Grain-Free. His stools are so much better on the Petcurean foods for some reason. We have a few samples of Go! as well.
> 
> The food game kinda sucks. I was perfectly content feeding him Acana for 2yrs and he always did so well. Then they went and changed their formulas. And I don't like the changes, nor the change in price, and the decrease in bag size. Heard of lots of yorkies getting itchy on the new formulas. It's a shame. So I'm still looking for that perfect food for my guy. I have the bag of Now, which he's been eating, and some Go! samples. I also got some Annamaet samples in the mail. Oh and my friend was feeding Natural Balance Synergy so I have a baggy sample of that, haha. Right now it's going to a guessing game with what food he LIKES best and what he does the best on.


How often is the scratching? I noticed Tux every so often scratches the same area (neck/collar). We tried two different colors and checked the area, even vet did as well. Only thing we can think of is Acana. But he's doing really well on it, other than possible itch problem it could be causing. Hate to venture into the food roulette again


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## tonkasdad

Jacksons Mom said:


> I could never get his stools 100% where I liked them on Fromm. Don't know if it's just too complicated for him, is the fiber content is not the greatest, or what. But we did their grain-frees, Gold, etc, for over 6 months. Everything else was fine, he did well for the most part, but stool was always a bit softer than I 'like'. He also got a bit chubbier. Now when I say this, he looked it to ME, no one else probably would've thought so... but I think his body condition has improved so much already and we're only on our first 6lb bag of Now Grain-Free. His stools are so much better on the Petcurean foods for some reason. We have a few samples of Go! as well.
> 
> The food game kinda sucks. I was perfectly content feeding him Acana for 2yrs and he always did so well. Then they went and changed their formulas. And I don't like the changes, nor the change in price, and the decrease in bag size. Heard of lots of yorkies getting itchy on the new formulas. It's a shame. So I'm still looking for that perfect food for my guy. I have the bag of Now, which he's been eating, and some Go! samples. I also got some Annamaet samples in the mail. Oh and my friend was feeding Natural Balance Synergy so I have a baggy sample of that, haha. Right now it's going to a guessing game with what food he LIKES best and what he does the best on.


Would it be to soon to change his food ?


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## tonkasdad

Well, I'm totally confused now haha. I want to get him a dog food with a good amount of animal protein.


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## Candyd

Well, not many brands of kibble have a nice amount of animal protein (by itself, or compared to vegetable protein). Most have more carbohydrates and vegetable proteins than animal proteins, and contain less meat than starch. That's why I usually advise to take a brand which is rich in animal proteins, low in carbohydrates and contains almost no vegetable protein source. All dogs don't have the same tolerance to proteins, fat or starch though. That's why some dogs don't tolerate brands like Orijen while some other dogs (like mine) can't bear any brand with more starch / less proteins. You can know that only once your dog eats a particular brand since months.


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## brindle

Candyd said:


> Well, not many brands of kibble have a nice amount of animal protein (by itself, or compared to vegetable protein). Most have more carbohydrates and vegetable proteins than animal proteins, and contain less meat than starch. That's why I usually advise to take a brand which is rich in animal proteins, low in carbohydrates and contains almost no vegetable protein source. All dogs don't have the same tolerance to proteins, fat or starch though. That's why some dogs don't tolerate brands like Orijen while some other dogs (like mine) can't bear any brand with more starch / less proteins. You can know that only once your dog eats a particular brand since months.


We need monstersdad *smh. DaViking... you want to touch on this..?


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## tonkasdad

Well I guess the best thing to do is to test him out on fromms and see how he does.


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## BeagleCountry

tonkasdad said:


> Well, I'm totally confused now haha. I want to get him a dog food with a good amount of animal protein.


Some animal protein percentages:

Dr. Tim's Momentum 35/25, 96%*
Dr. Tim's Momentum 94%* 
Dr. Tim's Pursuit 90%
Dr. Tim's Kinesis grain free 84% 
Native Level 4, 35/25, 93%
Diamond Extreme Athlete, 93%
Inukshuk 32/32, 95%
Legacy 80%
Orijen 82%
Instinct 70% 
Merrick grain free 70%

* Different sources stated different amounts.

Also consider the Ash content and kcal/kg, kcal ME/cup.

Contact the manufacturer to find out what information they will provide.


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## Candyd

brindle said:


> We need monstersdad *smh. DaViking... you want to touch on this..?


A good amount of animal protein isn't only the relative percentage of protein. Some foods have only 20 or 25% of protein, while meat contains more than the double. They are very poor in meat, that's a fact.
Would I want to buy a food which contains only 20% of meat on dry matter, would I want to buy a food with a very expensive price just for tons of starch, I don't think so.
BeagleCountry, where did you find these numbers ? (I'm just curious)


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## dr tim

Candyd, I am really confused as what you are asking or stating with the amount of protein versus percentage of protein. Can you please try to clarify a bit as I sense people are wanting to learn here. I agree, you want a food that is made up of animal protein to compromise most of the overall amount of protein in the food.


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## Candyd

I think both are important : the crude protein percentage (because a low protein food means a high carbohydrate content), and the percentage of animal protein vs vegetable protein (because animal proteins have a much higher biological value). 80% of more animal protein is recommended. I prefer a high protein content, but if it's made only by unbalanced vegetable protein sources, it can do more harm than good. As some people say, that's why I'm disappointed by the new Orijen formulas too, because they have added a lot of peas which are very rich in vegetable proteins (their proteins have a very low biological value). That's why my personal choice is a high protein food but, if possible, with high quality animal protein sources only.


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## dr tim

Yes, that makes a lot of sense. Thanks for clarifying.


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## tonkasdad

Candyd said:


> I think both are important : the crude protein percentage (because a low protein food means a high carbohydrate content), and the percentage of animal protein vs vegetable protein (because animal proteins have a much higher biological value). 80% of more animal protein is recommended. I prefer a high protein content, but if it's made only by unbalanced vegetable protein sources, it can do more harm than good. As some people say, that's why I'm disappointed by the new Orijen formulas too, because they have added a lot of peas which are very rich in vegetable proteins (their proteins have a very low biological value). That's why my personal choice is a high protein food but, if possible, with high quality animal protein sources only.


That is going to be hard to find.


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## Candyd

There are several brands which have a high protein percentage with only good protein sources, but if we take the ash level into consideration (as a lot of grain-free foods contain too much ash), it becomes very hard to find a good kibble.


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## bett

tonkasdad said:


> Well he is on fromm now and he is having loose stools.


sure you're not feeding too much?
i feed gf fromm, and each full grown dog, gets 3/4 of a cup 2x per day (with some no fat cottage cheese, sometimes an egg, etc)


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## meggels

Candyd said:


> There are several brands which have a high protein percentage with only good protein sources, but if we take the ash level into consideration (as a lot of grain-free foods contain too much ash), it becomes very hard to find a good kibble.


Which ones are they?


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## Candyd

It depends on the dog, but if there is 9% ash or more, it's too much anyway, and it can cause white and very dry stools, constipation, or even intestinal obstruction in some cases. Personally, I had that problem with Taste of the Wild, and no problem with Orijen and Go. I haven't tested many brands though, as good grain-free foods are very hard to find in France.


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## tonkasdad

bett said:


> sure you're not feeding too much?
> i feed gf fromm, and each full grown dog, gets 3/4 of a cup 2x per day (with some no fat cottage cheese, sometimes an egg, etc)


I only feed him one cup a day. Half in the morning and half at night. I am starting to notice his stools are becoming a lil firmer. But also, he seems not be enjoying it like he was at the beginning.


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## tonkasdad

Another thing I wanted to ask. Since he is on fromms, Does he have to be on the same flavor for a while or can I change flavors right away after one bag? Also, at what age do you change to adult dog food? He is 10 months.


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## Grey

tonkasdad said:


> Another thing I wanted to ask. Since he is on fromms, Does he have to be on the same flavor for a while or can I change flavors right away after one bag? Also, at what age do you change to adult dog food? He is 10 months.


I have always swapped at one year old to adult food and plan to do the same for Riggs (he's 6 months currently).

What's nice about Fromm's Four-Star line is that you can absolutely switch flavors every other bag if you wanted:
_"Fromm Four-Star offers your dog the variety they deserve. We've designed our entire line to compliment one another allowing you to switch between and combine recipes. Your dog's dining experience will never be the same again."_

Currently, I have Quinn and Riggs on Fromm Adult Gold and Fromm Gold - Large Breed Puppy respectively. When Riggs his a year old, I may reevaluate their food and switch to Four-Star. Quinn has had issues with her skin on grain-free foods -- almost as if they're too rich. I definitely want them on the same food at a year old, though, and LOVE the idea of swapping between recipes.

I'm a huge fan of Fromm's! Taste of the Wild and Acana caused itchy skin for Quinn -- and Acana caused her breath to be downright putrid. Oh my god, it smelled horrible. No issues with Fromm's and it's been half a year.


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## tonkasdad

Grey said:


> I have always swapped at one year old to adult food and plan to do the same for Riggs (he's 6 months currently).
> 
> What's nice about Fromm's Four-Star line is that you can absolutely switch flavors every other bag if you wanted:
> _"Fromm Four-Star offers your dog the variety they deserve. We've designed our entire line to compliment one another allowing you to switch between and combine recipes. Your dog's dining experience will never be the same again."_
> 
> Currently, I have Quinn and Riggs on Fromm Adult Gold and Fromm Gold - Large Breed Puppy respectively. When Riggs his a year old, I may reevaluate their food and switch to Four-Star. Quinn has had issues with her skin on grain-free foods -- almost as if they're too rich. I definitely want them on the same food at a year old, though, and LOVE the idea of swapping between recipes.
> 
> I'm a huge fan of Fromm's! Taste of the Wild and Acana caused itchy skin for Quinn -- and Acana caused her breath to be downright putrid. Oh my god, it smelled horrible. No issues with Fromm's and it's been half a year.


My dog has been eating the Salmon Tunalini flavor. His breath smells exactly like the food haha. Is that not good? So do you think I should feed him the same flavor again before switching him to another flavor? I just started him on it, its been only about 2 weeks.


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## Grey

tonkasdad said:


> My dog has been eating the Salmon Tunalini flavor. His breath smells exactly like the food haha. Is that not good? So do you think I should feed him the same flavor again before switching him to another flavor? I just started him on it, its been only about 2 weeks.


The fact that Fromm's have told me even in e-mail format that you could immediately swap bags to another flavor makes me feel confident. I'd definitely buy one flavor, feed the entire bag, then buy a different flavor. That's what I plan to do. I know some people on these forums even feed one flavor every other week. It's the fact that the Four Star food has the same "base" -- just different proteins. Grain-frees range from around 28% - 30% protein and the regular grain-inclusive look to be around 24%. So, I personally, if I were feeding grain-free -- I would only stick with the grain-free flavors. I wouldn't go from grain-inclusive to grain-free regularly, just because I do normally transition my dog between foods. Again, just my personal opinion.

And if you don't mind the smell of salmon, sure... haha. But, gosh, her breath was SO BAD on Acana. So bad that even people that were not me commented about it.

Good luck!!


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## tonkasdad

Grey said:


> The fact that Fromm's have told me even in e-mail format that you could immediately swap bags to another flavor makes me feel confident. I'd definitely buy one flavor, feed the entire bag, then buy a different flavor. That's what I plan to do. I know some people on these forums even feed one flavor every other week. It's the fact that the Four Star food has the same "base" -- just different proteins. Grain-frees range from around 28% - 30% protein and the regular grain-inclusive look to be around 24%. So, I personally, if I were feeding grain-free -- I would only stick with the grain-free flavors. I wouldn't go from grain-inclusive to grain-free regularly, just because I do normally transition my dog between foods. Again, just my personal opinion.
> 
> And if you don't mind the smell of salmon, sure... haha. But, gosh, her breath was SO BAD on Acana. So bad that even people that were not me commented about it.
> 
> Good luck!!


THanks for the help. I think I want to give him the Game Bird Recipe next time.


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## Lexi & Bailey

Our dogs have been doing great with Fromms. We feed them Fromms Gold, it's the second bag that they are going through and they still continue to love it. I did feed my dogs Orijen at one point but realized that it was making my dogs put on some weight, which i don't want bc let's face it, Dachshunds are prone to easy weight gain. Also, they are kind of lazy dogs too lol. So that combination just didn't go well. They are both great foods but i think it really varies between dogs and possibly breeds. We are planning to switch it up a bit and try another flavor of Fromms after this and i've also read that switching flavors is not a big of a deal.


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## tonkasdad

A little update. Tonka has been doing great on Fromms. He loves it so much, he literally licks the bowl clean. I'm wondering if I am feeding him enough. I feed him half a cup twice a day. His poops a firming up and his itching is beginning to stop.


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## Ziggy

Allie is still having very soft stool; she is going in tomorrow to see a new vet; Ziggy is doing very well on the Fromm Chicken a la Veg; the other vet office recommended Royal Canine GI formula and in desperation I started to feed it to her for dinner last night (1/3) of her meal; this morning and tonight. She had her best stool so far tonight. Need to get another opinion so trying a hospital further from my home. It is difficult to be away from my long time vet.
Glad Tonka is doing well.


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## tonkasdad

Is it possible for a dog to be allergic to duck? or can duck give dogs gas? I was feeding my dog Salmon Tunalini from Fromms and recently I switched him to the game bird flavor. I've noticed he is having some stinky farts. Could it be from the new game bird flavor?


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## Candyd

Everything can be a potential allergen, but gas are not a typical symptom of allergic reactions. An excess of starch can cause fermentation and gas.


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## tonkasdad

Candyd said:


> Everything can be a potential allergen, but gas are not a typical symptom of allergic reactions. An excess of starch can cause fermentation and gas.


So what could it be from? Could it be maybe from me mixing it with his other fromm flavor?


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## Candyd

Maybe, but I think it's more probably because of peas.


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## kathylcsw

tonkasdad said:


> A little update. Tonka has been doing great on Fromms. He loves it so much, he literally licks the bowl clean. I'm wondering if I am feeding him enough. I feed him half a cup twice a day. His poops a firming up and his itching is beginning to stop.


You need to go by how your dog looks. Is he looking too thin? If you can easily see his ribs then you may need to feed more. If you can easily feel his ribs then you are feeding enough. You really need to go by how your dog looks to know how much to feed.


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## tonkasdad

Do you think Annamaet grain free is good for a Cavalier?


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## InkedMarie

tonkasdad said:


> Do you think Annamaet grain free is good for a Cavalier?


Annamaet is a great food...I don't know why the breed would matter


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