# Natural immunity building



## A Badger (Mar 20, 2017)

Hey all! It's been awhile, my puppy has been home for a fair few weeks and the raw feeding has gone perfectly. He's about 13 weeks now and I have a question about building immunity naturally as I know many raw feeders here don't vaccinate their dogs or breed dogs that are never vaccinated and for very good reason.

I have seen a method where you take a puppy to a high traffic area, such as a dog park or something similar, and stay for five minutes before leaving and repeating the same thing the next week. Has anyone here done that and does it work? What sort of methods do you use to raise immunity without vaccines and what exactly do you do and what do you need to be wary of? I am very interested, but for obvious reasons I want to do a lot of research before trying. Do you have sources to help with this? Thank you in advance for all your help! :')


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## OtherGuy (Nov 30, 2016)

A Badger said:


> Hey all! It's been awhile, my puppy has been home for a fair few weeks and the raw feeding has gone perfectly. He's about 13 weeks now and I have a question about building immunity naturally as I know many raw feeders here don't vaccinate their dogs or breed dogs that are never vaccinated and for very good reason.
> 
> I have seen a method where you take a puppy to a high traffic area, such as a dog park or something similar, and stay for five minutes before leaving and repeating the same thing the next week. Has anyone here done that and does it work? What sort of methods do you use to raise immunity without vaccines and what exactly do you do and what do you need to be wary of? I am very interested, but for obvious reasons I want to do a lot of research before trying. Do you have sources to help with this? Thank you in advance for all your help! :')


Sorry, but I don't think that's how the germ theory if disease works. If your pup picks up a viral or bacterial infection (or a parasite) it doesn't necessarily matter how long they were exposed.

I'd consult with a veterinarian, and not monkey around.

Bill


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

I do know people who do that way, and I do similar but first, being 13 weeks old, find a vet who titers. Get titers done. That way you know what antibodies are there and immunity strength to certain diseases. I have an Aussie pup this age, and although I did take her out briefly a few times, I had her titered. All she showed that was a little low was parvo. She got a parvo vaccine only, nothing else. My vet is holistic and gave me a supplement to give her, which was basically medicinal mushrooms to help keep her natural immune system up after the vaccine. She has since gone back, been re titered and has full immunity. You may need to find a holistic vet for this, not all traditional vets are able to run titers.

Along with that, feeding prey model raw is going to be the best immune building way to go.


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## A Badger (Mar 20, 2017)

My "holistic" vet refused to titer the puppy saying it wasn't for puppies and only adults get titers, then instead tried to push WEEKLY shots and their barf model pre-made food....the other one in my area has no slots open, so I have to wait. I do feed prey model, and the vet whined about no veggies and supplements including no bone and instead doing some form of calcium powder. The only other one that might have slots open is 7+ hours away...so I have to wait on a slot for the first one we tried to get in with. She at least admitted my puppy was in perfect health and since ("for now") he was doing excellent that I could keep doing what I was doing, but I got no help from that vet so far as immunity building goes and was given the exact opposite of what I tend to hear of holistic vets. We have taken him places carefully for socialization building, but we are sticking to keeping him off of grass, having him in a (sprayed) cart if we go to pet stores, etc.

Since many here are very experienced with methods without vaccines, I hope to find help. He has had his first set of shots plus his rabies if that helps. I could ask if that first vet will at least run a titer, theirs takes ~21 minutes so it might be possible they would allow it.


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

That vet is NOT holistic. How long ago were the last vaccines given? It's usually preferred to wait around four or five weeks after the last vaccines to titer. They are ABSOLUTELY for puppies, and that's when they should be done. If you've had one set given already, chances are you don't need any more. At least not all of them. This coming Saturday my Aussie pup will be 16 weeks, and she will no longer need vaccines. She was given her first set by the breeder at six weeks (which is too young anyway). I had her titered at 10 weeks. All she needed was parvo because her antibodies were a little lower than the vet liked. Now, she's fully immune and doesn't need anymore. So technically, she only had one set. 

But, if I were you, find a vet, preferably holistic (a real one) who understands immunity and have titers done. That will tell you what you need to know. Sometimes minimal vaccines are needed, sometimes not. Having to have only one is much safer than pumping a whole, unnecessary set of mixed vaccines into them. But like I said, titering will tell you. And a true holistic vet can also give you immune boosting supplements as well if needed. Find out though, because at least one MAY be needed.


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## OtherGuy (Nov 30, 2016)

A raw diet won't save a puppy from contracting Parvo.

Anti-scientific thinking is dangerous. 

Bill


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

ANY puppy CAN get it, vaccines or not, or raw or kibble fed. But raw feeding, is species appropriate, and by feeding a true raw diet the bodies system is functioning at its highest point, therefore including the immune system. A puppy who is born from raw fed parents, and weaned directly onto raw is even better. 

Non of mine are from raw feeding natural rearing breeders. Therefore (I'm sure in the OP's case as well), titering is best way to know immunity, and whether or not to vaccinate, and if so for what. Vaccinating an already immune dog doesn't increase immunity. They are are either immune, or they aren't.


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## OtherGuy (Nov 30, 2016)

naturalfeddogs said:


> ANY puppy CAN get it, vaccines or not, or raw or kibble fed. But raw feeding, is species appropriate, and by feeding a true raw diet the bodies system is functioning at its highest point, therefore including the immune system. A puppy who is born from raw fed parents, and weaned directly onto raw is even better.
> 
> Non of mine are from raw feeding natural rearing breeders. Therefore (I'm sure in the OP's case as well), titering is best way to know immunity, and whether or not to vaccinate, and if so for what. Vaccinating an already immune dog doesn't increase immunity. They are are either immune, or they aren't.


The odds of a vaccinated puppy getting Parvo are very small. The odds of an unvaccinated pup getting Parvo are very high, whether they have ancestors who ate raw diets going back generations (or not).

Suggesting a raw diet supplants the need for vaccinations would be irresponsible and contrary to the truth.

Bill


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

Bill, what I'm saying is to TITER. A titer test shows the antibodies in the dogs body against a specific disease. If antibodies show immunity, vaccinating isn't going to increase that. If immune, no need to vaccinate. Vaccines are designed to target the immune system, and will knock out natural immunity already present. A raw fed dog generally will have higher immunity. But the only way to know for sure is to have a titer test done.

And not to mention all the toxic metals that are the ingredients of vaccines.

I still recommend to the OP to keep looking for the correct vet and have titers done. The dog may be more immune than they realize. Or not, in which case the correct vaccines may be recommended and given.


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## OtherGuy (Nov 30, 2016)

How many young pups are going to show an immunity to Parvo?

The cost of running a titer on every known disease for which we've got vaccines would be cost prohibitive for the vast number of people.

And vaccines are safe, simple, and effective.

Bill


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

Most raw fed ones will show some form of immunity. Depending on the level determines whether a vaccine should be given. Titers can be done on any disease, but are most common in parvo and distemper. If antibodies show immunity is already present, why vaccinate? They are already immune, and the vaccine isn't going to make the immunity any higher. They are immune or they aren't. I paid $60 total for Roper's, and no vaccines are needed. Vaccinating over and over is going to cost way more in the long run, as well as do more harm than good over time. It's huge income for traditional vets. 

Do some vaccine research on what is in them, and possible long term effects. They aren't so safe...


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## A Badger (Mar 20, 2017)

naturalfeddogs said:


> That vet is NOT holistic. How long ago were the last vaccines given? It's usually preferred to wait around four or five weeks after the last vaccines to titer. They are ABSOLUTELY for puppies, and that's when they should be done. If you've had one set given already, chances are you don't need any more. At least not all of them. This coming Saturday my Aussie pup will be 16 weeks, and she will no longer need vaccines. She was given her first set by the breeder at six weeks (which is too young anyway). I had her titered at 10 weeks. All she needed was parvo because her antibodies were a little lower than the vet liked. Now, she's fully immune and doesn't need anymore. So technically, she only had one set.
> 
> But, if I were you, find a vet, preferably holistic (a real one) who understands immunity and have titers done. That will tell you what you need to know. Sometimes minimal vaccines are needed, sometimes not. Having to have only one is much safer than pumping a whole, unnecessary set of mixed vaccines into them. But like I said, titering will tell you. And a true holistic vet can also give you immune boosting supplements as well if needed. Find out though, because at least one MAY be needed.


I will continue hoping this one will open a slot, as I do not have many options in my area. I do not mind minimal vaccination, it is the excessive stuff that bothers me and that is why I would like to get titers done...I will check and see if the one without slots will be willing to offer titers at least. His puppy set of vaccines were given around week 6-8, I would have to check his paperwork again. Rabies was done at week 12 so I am not concerned over that one and wasn't to begin with anyway.

This time, I will ask many more questions to the vet. :'/ Hopefully the next one is a legitimate holistic vet, if not I am sadly out of luck from what I have been able to find. There are only two in my area that I am aware of and another many hours away...there was once someone on the forums who raised danes that lived in this state, I wish I could have asked her if she knows of ones that are not listed in web searches. I will check the yellow pages again in case I missed one. If all else fails, I can try some of the other vets in this area but most of them will send postcards reminding you about yearly vaccines.


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

If you can find one who can and will titer, that is your best bet. That's the way to go about minimal vaccines. The biggest reason they cause so many issues, is pet owners are pressured to continually vaccinate over and over. That's absolutely ridiculous. With the exception of rabies (and there are ways around that one at times), no vaccine has a law to give it. Completely your choice. 

All the knowledgeable people from this forums past have left, unfortunately. There are a number of people you could be remembering.


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## OtherGuy (Nov 30, 2016)

naturalfeddogs said:


> Most raw fed ones will show some form of immunity. Depending on the level determines whether a vaccine should be given. Titers can be done on any disease, but are most common in parvo and distemper. If antibodies show immunity is already present, why vaccinate? They are already immune, and the vaccine isn't going to make the immunity any higher. They are immune or they aren't. I paid $60 total for Roper's, and no vaccines are needed. Vaccinating over and over is going to cost way more in the long run, as well as do more harm than good over time. It's huge income for traditional vets.
> 
> Do some vaccine research on what is in them, and possible long term effects. They aren't so safe...


There is a yawing gap between doing vaccines "over and over" and doing none at all, and thinking that brief exposures to dog parks and raw diets will protect a 13 week old pup from diseases like Parvo. No vaccine schedule on earth comes remotely close to being as unsafe as that approach.

Bill


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

OtherGuy said:


> There is a yawing gap between doing vaccines "over and over" and doing none at all, and thinking that brief exposures to dog parks and raw diets will protect a 13 week old pup from diseases like Parvo. No vaccine schedule on earth comes remotely close to being as unsafe as that approach.
> 
> Bill


TITER first Bill...titer...they show if vaccines are even necessary. I don't know how to be any more clear. The OP got it, that's all that matters...


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## OtherGuy (Nov 30, 2016)

naturalfeddogs said:


> TITER first Bill...titer...they show if vaccines are even necessary. I don't know how to be any more clear. The OP got it, that's all that matters...


After getting a Parvo shot, not in lieu of having a Parvo shot. Saying that would be more clear.

Bill


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

OtherGuy said:


> After getting a Parvo shot, not in lieu of having a Parvo shot. Saying that would be more clear.
> 
> Bill


Well that depends too, but I won't go into how and when and why that is possible. Like I told the OP, the way I prefer to go about it is to titer after the first set, since all of mine had a first set of vaccines from the breeders already before I got them. But even if not I still would titer before any given if I could.


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