# Is it normal for a puppy to feel 'bony' when starting out?



## brandydan (Jul 21, 2015)

Hi everyone, I hope I can get some advice, suggestions, etc. We recently (as in last week) added a now 9-week old Shiloh puppy to our family. From the start he has been eating raw with a fair amount of gusto. I started him on ground (whole chickens, with chicken hearts, gizzards and small amount of liver, an entire egg with shell, along with Missing Link (in case I'm missing any extra supplements). I kept a bowl of kibble next to his bowl in case he was hesitant, but only picks at small pieces of the kibble. I also hand out chicken wings to him and to my other two dogs, and his new favorite thing is chicken feet (it's amazing what you can find in the corners of the meat section). 

For the latest batch (I make a batch a week since my cats don't like their food thawed out) I also added a piece of beef heart, sweetbreads and some pork along with the whole chicken and assorted parts. This puppy will eat close to a pound of food at a time, 2-3x day (twice a day if I am at work), but I try to spread out his portion of 2.5 pounds (his sire is 120#, his dam close to 90#; shilohs are big dogs) throughout the day. 

He eats well, poos are as expected (small, not straining, only a slight bout of the runs when I inadvertently added a bit too much liver for the first week), doesn't vomit, drinks water, etc...but under his coat I feel ribs. And not the lean kind of ribs, but the sharp edges. When I first got him, he was a round ball of puppy breath, grunts and fuzzy fur, and while he is still all that, he feels thin to me, more so lately than when I got him. He was dewormed at 3-5-7 weeks of age at his breeder, and had his first set of shots at week 7. He hasn't left my property since we brought him home, and my other two dogs are up to date on all their shots.

Could the switch from puppy kibble to straight raw cause an initial weight loss? Or should I feed him more? I am really worried, as I don't want to harm him. Should I add in some of the kibble in case he needs the extra calories? I realize that I should have weighed and measured him when he arrived last week and compared it to this week, but the feeling of his ribs is slowly freaking me out. Any ideas?


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## Sgrecco (Jan 29, 2014)

Hi! and congrats on your new addition. Large breed pups grow fast and feeding raw and determining how much when they are growing is all in how they feel. If he feels skinny to you, up the feeding. I tend to let pups eat as much as they want (with some control) and in more frequent feedings as they grow. If he is starting to get chunky, which almost never happens with raw pups, then reduce the amount slightly. It looks like you are feeding more lean meats like chicken, which is great since you are introducing him to raw. When you add beef and other more fatty meats, he will bulk up a bit. If he is doing ok and poos are solid for a few weeks, add another protein to the diet. If you do choose to supplement with kibble, don't feed kibble and raw in the same feeding....they digest differently and can cause stomach upset. I would personally just stick to raw.


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## brandydan (Jul 21, 2015)

Thanks for your advice! I did wonder about all the bone I've been feeding The Horde, and for some reason, can pick up turkey-sized CHICKEN boneless breastmeat, so for every entire chicken I run through the grinder (since my cats as a group will NOT touch anything that doesn't look like it came out of a can, go figure), I try to add the same weight of boneless chicken. I also found beef kidneys, beef heart, sweetbreads (not tripe; these look like the pancreas) and entire sheeps HEAD in the supermarket (and we don't live in an area with a great ethnic diversity, so I'm still trying to wrap my brain around what TexMex dish needs KIDNEYS), and I can already find pork shoulder at $1/pound <most of this will be for me; as a Puerto Rican, I grew up eating 'pernil'). 

I also know that I should be checking the percentages of meat, organs and bones, but since I'm still new to this, I've not been that methodical, since my Boys (my dogs) all seem to like to crunch away on the chicken separate from the ground. But on an aside, it's been interesting seeing how my three dogs deal with their meals. I give them ground, then for a 'treat', I add a bone-in piece of chicken into their bowls. My two older dogs, who were raised on kibble, inhale the ground then pick up and settle down to chomp down on the bone-in piece - but the puppy will root through the ground to pick up the bone-in first, THEN inhale the ground.

Then the three of them do their 'I'm A GUY' belch before settling down in front of the tv.

I upped the amount of food I'm giving my puppy, at this time a combination of ground so I can be assured that at least all the nutrients I *hope* he needs are in it, he will methodically go through an entire chicken quarter on his own, and I've been using pieces of beef heart as training treats. I read, I think in another post, that an owner will feed their puppy as much as the puppy will eat. My little guy seemed to have lost a little bit of weight when I first got him (because once he discovered the wonderful world of raw chicken, kibble just doesn't interest him, so he isn't full of carbs, I guess), but I weighed him yesterday, and while he was at 12 pounds before I got him (I thought he was 15#), he's now pushing 16#. I know that adding too much weight too fast on a large-breed isn't the best, but so far he's doing well.

On an (another) aside, do any of you know if there *could* be changes to their blood once they get settled into a straight raw diet? My older dogs have been straight raw for a month, doing phenomenal, but I also understand it could affect their bloodwork. My 9-YO scottie is heading to the vet's for his first (and last) dental work to clean out his teeth, and because of his age, he will have a full panel done. My vet, though fantastic in every other way, is adamantly anti-raw. I haven't bothered to mention to her the change in diet, but if the diet could alter the bloodwork done, any ideas on what I might need to change in his diet? 

Considering how surprisingly well 90% of my Horde has done on raw (since one cat refuses to eat any of it), I really don't want to change back to raw or canned.


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