# Raw Feeding at its finest-CAUTION-GRAPHIC PHOTOS



## Jem

So today I was letting my dogs run around in the open space behind my house and literally twenty feet from my fence I saw this : 



















This was the remains of a coyote kill last night. It just PROVES that they do NOT go straight for the stomach of their prey...They ate everything except the spine, ribs, one leg, and the stomach and intestines. I feel so good about the prey model raw diet...it truly is the most natural diet for a domestic dog.


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## DaneMama

Those are awesome pictures Amy! Thank you SO much for posting them because now I can always use them for referencing and proving to people that dogs really don't need plant matter in their diet :biggrin:


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## Jem

danemama08 said:


> Those are awesome pictures Amy! Thank you SO much for posting them because now I can always use them for referencing and proving to people that dogs really don't need plant matter in their diet :biggrin:


No Prob! I thought it was pretty cool to see that :wink: . Normally I would be sad for the deer, but its the circle of life! I was wishing there was still some extra meat left for Jemma :tongue:!

I will no longer worry about Jemma not getting the right nutrients from PMR! Meat, bones and organs are all she needs!


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## Ania's Mommy

Holy cow! I can't believe how great your timing is! 

After, oh, 3 or 4 months of feeding our dog raw, my husband JUST got around to telling me today that he thinks that we should incorporate veggies. WHAT?!?!? Apparently some of the people he does search & rescue with who feed raw said that veggies are a necessary part of a dog's diet. I told him it was crap (baised on my research in this forum no less :wink, but he wants actual proof. 

I think these pictures speak for themselves! Thanks for posting them!

Richelle


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## Todd

Oh, my

What type of critter do you think that is?


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## Jem

Todd said:


> Oh, my
> 
> What type of critter do you think that is?


Its a deer...killed by a pack of coyotes.


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## Jem

Ania's Mommy said:


> Holy cow! I can't believe how great your timing is!
> 
> I think these pictures speak for themselves! Thanks for posting them!


I agree!! This was just what I needed to see too...I have been feeding raw for almost two months but still in the back of my mind I was wondering about supplementing with veggies. Not now!! Thanks mother nature :smile:


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## malluver1005

What did your dogs do when they saw this?


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## Jem

malluver1005 said:


> What did your dogs do when they saw this?


Just sniffed really. I was worried that they would try to eat the intestines, but they were just sniffing around everywhere. It was a pretty bloody mess, so I think they knew it was death not dinnertime.


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## spookychick13

AWESOME photos!


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## ruckusluvr

my guys would had rolled in that in a second!


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## RawFedDogs

ruckusluvr said:


> my guys would had rolled in that in a second!


Mine too!!


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## jdatwood

RawFedDogs said:


> Mine too!!


Shiloh would've for sure


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## Orange

I have been thinking about switching to PMR, but I think its funny how you all go on saying this is proof that veggies are not needed. All these pictures prove is that they ate a deer. Its a bit excessive to say that they do not need veggies just because you found what was left of a dead deer. Not that I am saying they need veggies.


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## jdatwood

Orange said:


> I have been thinking about switching to PMR, but I think its funny how you all go on saying this is proof that veggies are not needed. All these pictures prove is that they ate a deer. Its a bit excessive to say that they do not need veggies just because you found what was left of a dead deer. Not that I am saying they need veggies.


No, this post was made to prove they don't eat the stomach or contents

Many BARF feeders still believe that the stomach and contents are consumed which is why the feed veggies and things like green tripe

They don't need veggies because they don't have the dentition or digestive tract to extract any nutrition from them :wink:


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## DaneMama

I think we were all saying this because all of the research done on wolves says that they DON'T eat the contents of the stomach, and that these few pictures just reiterates what is written.

I don't really NEED photographic evidence to tell me dogs don't need veggies. It is interesting that the coyotes left only the lower digestive tract on this deer, considering skeptics of the PMR diet say that they will eat these parts.


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## RawFedDogs

My Abby (almost 10 year old Great Dane) hasn't eaten a fruit or veggie in 7 years. My Thor (5 year old Great Dane) has never eaten a fruit or veggie in his life. Both dogs are healthy. THIS is what tells me that dogs don't need fruits and veggies in their diet. Add to that the fact that they can't extract nutrients from plant material because of the way their bodies are designed is even more proof.


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## Orange

Hahaha, ok. I feel dumb. New to the whole raw thing. I guess I should have done a little more homework eh? Thanks for the enlightenment.


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## jdatwood

Orange said:


> Hahaha, ok. I feel dumb. New to the whole raw thing. I guess I should have done a little more homework eh? Thanks for the enlightenment.


No reason to feel dumb. We're all here to exchange information and learn from each other :wink:


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## rawfeederr

Great proof! ..But what the hell is it lol! 

My dog killed a rabbit and I let him bring it home to eat it. He ate every single part (even the fur & head) but not the intestines/stomach!


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## CorgiPaws

Orange said:


> Hahaha, ok. I feel dumb. New to the whole raw thing. I guess I should have done a little more homework eh? Thanks for the enlightenment.


Awh, don't feel dumb! We're all here to learn and share what we know. 
Trust me, when I joined this site about a year ago, I not only didn't feed raw, but I was against it. Then I learned more... and, well, now I have about 300lbs of meat in two freezers in my garage, and very healthy dogs. lol. 
We all start somewhere, right?


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## Jem

rawfeederr said:


> Great proof! ..But what the hell is it lol!
> 
> My dog killed a rabbit and I let him bring it home to eat it. He ate every single part (even the fur & head) but not the intestines/stomach!


I think you were asking what the pictures were of? they are of deer stomach and intestines left over by coyote kill. 

That is VERY interesting to hear that about the rabbit!!! I haven't feed a whole rabbit yet, I would like to and I wonder what my dog would do. I think in the wild carnivores who feed on rabbits may eat the whole thing because it is so small, and it is just easier that way. But the amount of plant matter is so minimal that it is more neutral than anything. Or they may in fact eat everything but the digestive system...I am not too sure?


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## DaneMama

I think it depends on the dog, if they will eat the entire thing. Shiloh caught a rabbit last summer, but I'm pretty sure she ate the entire thing because by the time we saw her with it all that was left was the legs sticking out of her mouth!

I know that RFD's dogs will eat rabbits but cut the stomach open with their teeth and shake out the contents before eating it. We have yet to know what any of our other dogs do!

Either way, the amount of contents in the digestive tract of a rabbit is so small that it is negligible in terms of nutrients.


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## rawfeederr

Jem said:


> I think you were asking what the pictures were of? they are of deer stomach and intestines left over by coyote kill.
> 
> That is VERY interesting to hear that about the rabbit!!! I haven't feed a whole rabbit yet, I would like to and I wonder what my dog would do. I think in the wild carnivores who feed on rabbits may eat the whole thing because it is so small, and it is just easier that way. But the amount of plant matter is so minimal that it is more neutral than anything. Or they may in fact eat everything but the digestive system...I am not too sure?


Yeah I was wondering what animal the pics were.

Wild dogs might eat the whole thing because there is barely any plant matter, I wouldn't be surprised if they did. 
Maybe my dog avoided it because he hates anything to do with vegetables/fruits/plants..? lol

Here is a YouTube video of it - http://www.youtube.com/user/muttdoglover88#p/u/24/Md_ZpVrYZ6A


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## Foodie

Proof???? Doubtful that this is the dietary remains of coyotes and more likely a mountain lion.


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## DaneMama

Foodie said:


> Proof???? Doubtful that this is the dietary remains of coyotes and more likely a mountain lion.


In the grand scheme of things it doesn't really make a huge difference one way or the other. Its all in how you perceive things. There IS one thing that is certain...its the remains left over from a carnivores dinner :wink:

ETA: Knowing exactly where Amy lives (I've been there myself and work with her on a daily basis) I would actually say that its a coyote kill. Mountain lions typically don't come down that low into the city but there are an abundance of coyotes/foxes around


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## Foodie

danemama08 said:


> In the grand scheme of things it doesn't really make a huge difference one way or the other. Its all in how you perceive things. There IS one thing that is certain...its the remains left over from a carnivores dinner :wink:
> 
> ETA: Knowing exactly where Amy lives (I've been there myself and work with her on a daily basis) I would actually say that its a coyote kill. Mountain lions typically don't come down that low into the city but there are an abundance of coyotes/foxes around


I will strongly disagree with you that mountain lions don't come down in to a city, I lived in Colorado for 7 years.

Your right, it's all in how you perceive things and IMO dogs are omnivores not strict carnivores. :wink:


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## DaneMama

Foodie said:


> I will strongly disagree with you that mountain lions don't come down in to a city, I lived in Colorado for 7 years.
> 
> Your right, it's all in how you perceive things and IMO dogs are omnivores not strict carnivores. :wink:


I've lived here my entire life. Even lived in the mountains, in the foothills and in the heart of the city. There's no doubt in my mind that they do come down into the city but they are very few and far between. There is an overabundance of coyotes and foxes lower down. 

Disagree with me or not, but you're still wrong :wink:


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## RawFedDogs

Foodie said:


> Your right, it's all in how you perceive things and IMO dogs are omnivores not strict carnivores.


What are the physical attributes of a dog that makes you think he is an omnivore?


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## jdatwood

Foodie said:


> Proof???? Doubtful that this is the dietary remains of coyotes and more likely a mountain lion.


I'm just curious (since you never bothered to introduce yourself here...), what experience do you have to disagree with the statements that have been made? 

Why are you so confident this is not a coyote, wolf, or dog kill?

BTW, I've lived in Colorado my entire life as well and I can almost count the number of mountain lion sightings on one hand. They typically don't come into the city because they're fearful of humans.


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## DaneMama

Here's my favorite study backing up the idea that the domesticated dog is the most closely related to the grey wolf and therefore making it more of a carnivore than an omnivore at all. If you want a pretty picture to sum it up it's near the end of the paper.

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v438/n7069/pdf/nature04338.pdf


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## rawfeederr

Dogs are omnivores!? ROFLMAO


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## danesandhorses

Great photos! Thanks for posting them.


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## DestaRR

I still give mine some veggies .. know why? BECAUSE THEY LIKE THEM! =) I also share a variety of fruits with them for the exact same reason. Both of mine loooove watermelon rind.


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## cprcheetah

I showed this to my Vet (dad) today and he said "I have always thought they went for the intestines then came back for the meat, guess not" lol, goes to show how skewed learning is. He was intrigued by the pictures and said "There's an education for you" thank-you for sharing this!


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## MollyWoppy

Sure wish my vet was as open minded as your Dad!


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## MarshlandMagic

If you've ever seen a range coyote's poop you could sure tell there was a lot of vegetable matter in it! I have--looked like straw--and very dry. We were way back off the pavement up a dirt road and found the pile next to our trailer the next morning--my husband had talked to the neighboring rancher about hunting coyotes the day before. The coyote must have heard the conversation!


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## saya

old thread I know, but thought I'd post this to add. 

This was a rabbit left over I found all was left is bits of fur, intestines, stomach and it's head stripped of any meat on the head only part was left was the nose it was crazy.. Wasps were nuts over the meat scraps on the skull. 
intestines

stomach here


I've sometimes seen just a little stomach content on the ground and no stomach maybe they only ate the lining or maybe ants and wasps ate it I dunno. 

I found this remains this winter. The legs are still left and stomach and intestines are left. Crazy Saya and Bella wanted to eat it. gross. Bella is a big rabbit poo eater Saya not so much, but some reason she liked this. 


Next day the legs were gone, but stomach and intestines stayed. It snowed and covered it, but when snow melted it was still there. 


A deer was hit by a car nearby and it had to be dispatched by a cop it couldn't get up and had bad injury. 

Vultures ate it during day and coyotes got it at night.
All was left was deer fur and stomach contents there was coyote poop too.

Corn in it too




Saya has had a whole baby rabbit and she ate it and once she got to stomach she took front teeth pulled it out a little and wouldn't touch the rabbit till I took the stomach and intestines out and then she proceeded to eat the rabbit. Second time she ate it all even stomach. 

She gets whole quail once in a while and one of them she ate the stomach, but left the intestine. most times she eats it all except the feathers on the wing. 

I seen rabbit stomach and intestines in my yard multiple times throughout my time living here. 

This winter I had to put two intestines and stomach in trash one was in backyard good bit aways kinda between the area where the pond is and trails to the field.. 

Second time was at side of the house. 

Coyotes in my field like apples.. I have like 8 in my property two in my yard and rest is in the field area. I see evidence in the coyote's poop.
Here's pic of one of them.. I think next fall I plan to get a game cam type thing to get pics of them enjoying sweet apples. I mean fruit is a given it's sweet and yummy so coarse dogs and coyotes like them. In wild you take what you can get.. Saya loves the pear tree I have she'll snack on them once in a while.





I'm guessing it ate a deer as it has fur and I see bits of hoof here's closer pic


There is grass in the poop, but it could be from eating the deer and the meat had grass attached to it. Kinda like when I feed raw outside after I mow the grass is loose so sometimes there is bit of grass on the meat. I rake, but there is always loose grass around so. 

If you feel your dog needs veggies fine. Some dogs need bit more fiber in their diet. I don't think veggies and fruits are evil or anything. I'm Fine with barf style of diets long as it is done right. 

The stomach contents of the deer my dad shot during deer season had no corn in it it was green with stuff that looks like nuts or something I forgot how it exactly looked. I wished I had taken pic it was neat to see what it ate.


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