# Starting new food- Taste of the Wild.. and a ?



## joodie

Anyone else using this food? It's grain free which I'm hoping will help with my Rottie's gas problem. 

I also want to try Green Cow Tripe food. Anyone have any experience with the Trippett or Green Cow canned food?


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## carnivorediet

*gassy dogs*

My dogs were on Evo, which is grain free as well, and still the rott and the beagle mix were gassy. It wasnt until I went to homemade raw that the gas stopped. I mean totally stopped... I havent smelled a gassy dog in months. We have one of those doggie dooley systems (septic tank of sorts) and a month or so after the transition to raw the horrible smell from that is now gone. I used to hate having to lift the lid to add water and now there is no smell.


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## mastifflover2

I haven't used that type of food but for any gas problems, I give Sully my younger Mastiff yogurt, usually 1-2 tablespoons over his kibble in the morning. I use the plain yogurt or even the fruit ones. Keep an eye on the ingredients and carbs. That seems to help!


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## Guest

I use the Tripette canned tripe (the beef and the lamb). My guy likes it, and it didn't smell as bad as I expected. Fresh green tripe has a horrific odor from what I've heard. The canned isn't nearly as bad, but you won't want to be hovering over the bowl or anything.


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## domari

I've been feeding Taste of the Wild to two of my dogs. One of them had horrific gas and other stomach issues. He's been doing great on TOTW, gained his weight back, and we can stay in the same room with him now without having to run for the deoderizing spray!

I haven't tried the tripe food, but our feed store doesn't carry many varieties of pet food.


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## BoxerMommie

My only concern is that TOTW does not guarantee that their suppliers as well as their own company uses Ethoxyquin free ingredients.  Ethoxyquin is a preservative that is a known carcinogen/poison. This would be my only concern as opposed to a company like Innova Evo or Wellness that DO guarantee this.

For gas I use apple cider vinegar and a probiotic.


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## domari

BoxerMommie said:


> My only concern is that TOTW does not guarantee that their suppliers as well as their own company uses Ethoxyquin free ingredients. Ethoxyquin is a preservative that is a known carcinogen/poison. This would be my only concern as opposed to a company like Innova Evo or Wellness that DO guarantee this.
> 
> For gas I use apple cider vinegar and a probiotic.


This is part of an email I received from them:

_"There has not been any scientific research which substantiates the
rumors on the internet regarding ethoxyquin and pet problems. The FDA
has some information on these rumors on its web site.
Ethoxyquin has been used (at much higher levels than observed today) as
a pet food preservative for many years.
We use natural preservatives with our foods, applied to the product
after the cooking process. 
Preservatives which are used in individual ingredients will not only be
diluted during the mixing process, but used up during the cooking
process (see attached).
Effects of bad ingredients secondary to use of no or poorly performing
antioxidants has been documented, and is of greater concern, in my
opinion.
I wouldn't switch my pet food based on unsubstantiated rumors."_

_"The preservation systems used by our vendors are considered proprietary information. The heat from our pet food process destroys antioxidants that are used in the ingredients that we purchase. The cooking process at our facilities is at or above 240 degrees. After the heat process (extrusion and drying), we apply natural tocopherols (Vitamins A & E) in order to carry the shelf life of the food. Diamond does not preserve any of its products with ethoxyquin, only with mixed tocopherols. "_


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## Guest

Based on that email I would not fed it. 

The proper email would have read something like:

"We totally understand your concern and that you want to feed your pets the best. Every ingredient in our food is listed on our bag and we guarantee it. Blah, blah, blah..."

They didn't really answer your question.

The FDA is a political organization not a scientific one.


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## joodie

everything these days causes cancer. 

just my 2 cents.


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## BoxerMommie

zentrainer said:


> Based on that email I would not fed it.
> 
> The proper email would have read something like:
> 
> "We totally understand your concern and that you want to feed your pets the best. Every ingredient in our food is listed on our bag and we guarantee it. Blah, blah, blah..."
> 
> They didn't really answer your question.
> 
> The FDA is a political organization not a scientific one.



ITA. What are they going to tell you? Yes, we use Ethoxyquin, we know it causes cancer, but we still use it, we believe it's the best preservative out there, we make every effort to make sure we can kill your family pet and we would like you to still use our food? Good grief of course not. Canidae has tried to spin that tomato pomace, barley, and "ocean fish meal" is a good change to their food too, it doesn't mean that it is.

Preserving naturally would be with vitamin E among a couple of others, not a pesticide. They used to use Ethoxyquin as a PESTICIDE you cannot tell me that it doesn't cause damage to EAT poison.

And IMO yes there are many things that are cancer contributors nowadays, but obviously we can't get away from breathing air, we CAN choose not to support a company that uses a pesticide as a preservative simply because it's cheaper than a natural non poisonious way to do so.

There's a reason why TOTW is a very cheap grain free food. You get 33 pounds for around $40, look at other grain free foods, MUCH higher in price, there's a reason.

I'm not saying don't use it, I'm simply saying, please know that it isn't any different than feeding your pet a food preserved with BHA or BHT or adding a little Raid to their food on a daily basis...it's poison pure and simple.


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## rannmiller

I've had my dog on the Wellness Core for a while now and it has really helped clear up her gas, bloating, lethargy, weight gain, etc. And I don't think that $30 for 12 lbs of food is very "cheap" (as I've heard Wellness called on here before for some odd reason). I did a ton of research on it before deciding to purchase it and have been very happy with it so far. So if you're looking for a good grain-free kibble, I'd recommend Wellness Core, it's a good one.


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## BoxerMommie

rannmiller said:


> I've had my dog on the Wellness Core for a while now and it has really helped clear up her gas, bloating, lethargy, weight gain, etc. And I don't think that $30 for 12 lbs of food is very "cheap" (as I've heard Wellness called on here before for some odd reason). I did a ton of research on it before deciding to purchase it and have been very happy with it so far. So if you're looking for a good grain-free kibble, I'd recommend Wellness Core, it's a good one.


I 2nd that. I also do not think Wellness Core or regular is cheap quality or cheap price wise, it's a good food IMO.


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## domari

zentrainer said:


> Based on that email I would not fed it.
> 
> The proper email would have read something like:
> 
> "We totally understand your concern and that you want to feed your pets the best. Every ingredient in our food is listed on our bag and we guarantee it. Blah, blah, blah..."
> 
> They didn't really answer your question.
> 
> The FDA is a political organization not a scientific one.


Read my post again.

_"This is *part* of an email I received from them:"_



(Translation - that wasn't the ENTIRE email received from them)


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## domari

BoxerMommie said:


> ITA. What are they going to tell you? Yes, we use Ethoxyquin, we know it causes cancer, but we still use it, we believe it's the best preservative out there, we make every effort to make sure we can kill your family pet and we would like you to still use our food? Good grief of course not. Canidae has tried to spin that tomato pomace, barley, and "ocean fish meal" is a good change to their food too, it doesn't mean that it is.
> 
> Preserving naturally would be with vitamin E among a couple of others, not a pesticide. They used to use Ethoxyquin as a PESTICIDE you cannot tell me that it doesn't cause damage to EAT poison.
> 
> And IMO yes there are many things that are cancer contributors nowadays, but obviously we can't get away from breathing air, we CAN choose not to support a company that uses a pesticide as a preservative simply because it's cheaper than a natural non poisonious way to do so.
> 
> There's a reason why TOTW is a very cheap grain free food. You get 33 pounds for around $40, look at other grain free foods, MUCH higher in price, there's a reason.
> 
> I'm not saying don't use it, I'm simply saying, please know that it isn't any different than feeding your pet a food preserved with BHA or BHT or adding a little Raid to their food on a daily basis...it's poison pure and simple.


Yet, you believe what other pet food companies sell to you?

And as far as price = quality, that's not always true, not at all. 

Adding Raid to food is a bit dramatic, don't you think? 

Do you eat any food that has preservatives? What about imitation vanilla? Do you know how much cancer causing ingredients are in the food you eat? Or do you grow your own food to make sure you only eat perfect food which will never cause cancer.


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## domari

joodie said:


> everything these days causes cancer.
> 
> just my 2 cents.


I wonder how many people here have kids and are as fussy about what their kids eat as they are what their dogs eat.


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## BoxerMommie

domari said:


> Yet, you believe what other pet food companies sell to you?
> 
> And as far as price = quality, that's not always true, not at all.
> 
> Adding Raid to food is a bit dramatic, don't you think?
> 
> Do you eat any food that has preservatives? What about imitation vanilla? Do you know how much cancer causing ingredients are in the food you eat? Or do you grow your own food to make sure you only eat perfect food which will never cause cancer.



And yes I do believe the company that says "we guarantee Ethoxyquin is not used" as I have gotten e-mails from many companies stating this, if they stated this and it was not true that is illegal and they could very easily be shut down for this practice. The ones that use it beat around the bush and side step the question and try to make it out like it's a no big deal ingredient, which IMO is a bunch of BS.

No I do not use immitation vanilla and I buy organic for the most part. And personally I am EXTREMELY picky about what my son eats, things he eats, like apple sauce is organic and no sugar added, I buy organic milk, he doesn't drink juice with sugar added, and is allowed very little candy, chips, cookies, and the like, mainly it's many fruits and veggies, milk, fruit juice, etc. I pack his lunch and snacks for school he does not buy school lunches (gross) and I make his b-fast and dinner daily along with my own. We do pizza, McDonald's, etc once in awhile, but it's once in a blue moon.

I'm sure I do eat some things that may cause cancer sometimes, my point is I don't KNOWINGLY do it, nor do I do it on a daily basis (difference with humans and dogs, dogs tend to eat the same thing daily, humans do not). If I knew celery caused caused you bet your booty I'd stop eating it. It isn't doing it because you don't know any better and still doing it that i the problem, it's someone telling you this and saying "oh well" then why the heck are you here? People are giving you food alternatives that don't contain known cancer causing preservatives and you write it off like it's no big deal that irritates me. 

And no I don't think it's dramatic, raid is a bug killer pesticides are bug killers, it isn't a huge leap to connect the 2 here.


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## RawFedDogs

BoxerMommie said:


> No I do not use immitation vanilla and I buy organic for the most part. And personally I am EXTREMELY picky about what my son eats, things he eats, like apple sauce is organic and no sugar added, I buy organic milk, he doesn't drink juice with sugar added, and is allowed very little candy, chips, cookies, and the like, mainly it's many fruits and veggies, milk, fruit juice, etc. I pack his lunch and snacks for school he does not buy school lunches (gross) and I make his b-fast and dinner daily along with my own. We do pizza, McDonald's, etc once in awhile, but it's once in a blue moon.


Hehehehe ... I'm glad you aren't my mama. LOL


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## BoxerMommie

RawFedDogs said:


> Hehehehe ... I'm glad you aren't my mama. LOL



That's the way my mother raised me and personally I appreciate her for it. I don't mind if he participates in school parties and that kind of thing, but why give added sugar when fruit is sweet enough and feed a child school lunches that aren't fit for dogs IMO?


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## domari

BoxerMommie said:


> That's the way my mother raised me and personally I appreciate her for it. I don't mind if he participates in school parties and that kind of thing, but why give added sugar when fruit is sweet enough and feed a child school lunches that aren't fit for dogs IMO?



Sugar is sugar, fruit is full of it, fresh fruit and juice is a sugar overload. Why do you think OJ was given to diabetics? Unless you grow your own fruit and veggies you have no clue what kind of pesticides and preservatives are on the produce. Just because the label says organic doesn't always mean it's healthy. 

I agree on school lunches, they are the most unhealthy microwave instant trash there is on earth. The government approves it, so the schools have been feeding it, and then everyone wonders why kids are obese, allergic to everything, and have all kinds of mental and physical disorders. 

So you don't trust the email from one dog food company, but you trust the emails from all the others because they cost more so it means they are better. And you trust the signs in grocery stores. ALL companies say things that aren't true. My uncle ran an advertising company, he was a very rich man because he had ways to convince the public that all his customers were honest and that all their products were perfect. Don't think that the food you buy isn't presented to you in a way you want to hear it. Illegal, nope, not at all. Read the fine print about truth in advertising. And don't tell me your dog food company doesn't advertise, yes it does, that's why you buy it.


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## BoxerMommie

Natural sugar and processed sugar are 2 very different things just an FYI.

Except the companies that do NOT use it have studies to back it up. They TEST their product to make sure it isn't there. What I'm saying is that I would prefer to purchase a product that condemns the use of a known cancer causing agent and tests their product for it to make sure it isn't in it that purchases from other sellers who have done the same and have the tests to back it up, rather than just letting it slide, saying no big deal, and even in that same context say it's not only no big deal but it's okay. No, the food I buy more does NOT cost more than TOTW actually and I do not believe that paying more is a sure fire way to get something better, BUT Diamond is known to have had issues in the past, they were part of the food recall they have a very half a$$ed way of looking at things and certainly do not seem to care about their customers in the least TOTW is manufactured by Diamond BTW.

Again it's a personal choice, and no I do not believe everything I hear, however I am also not going to knowingly feed myself, my family, or my pets something that I KNOW is a poison and not only do that but then pay that company money when they could care less. Personally I buy Natura made food and it is cheaper than TOTW cost wise and has a company that has quite a few quality control points, does quality control tests to make sure their product is sound, and has really pushed for companies to stop using Ethoxyquin.

Like I said, no nothing is a 100% guarantee, but I will not knowingly use a food made by a company who has proven they have poor quality control, who has had major issues in the past, who knowingly uses a poison as a preservative and doesn't seem to care, when I can use a company that doesn't have these issues and attitudes for either cheaper or not much more (depending on the food) and does do quality control tests to make sure that the poison is not found in their food.

I'm not going to keep going back and forth on this. Yes you can find something wrong with anything, but knowingly feeding yourself or anyone/anything else poison IMO is very unacceptable. Nobody seems to dispute the fact that you should not feed a foot with BHA or BHT yet Ethoxyquin really isn't any different. Use the food or don't, just know that by using it there is a pesticide in it used for preserving and that there ARE other companies out there with similar food choices for not much more money that guarantee they do not use this product in their foods and do quality control checks to ensure this. It's up to you who you'd rather give your money to and trust your pet's life with.

And honestly I've never seen Natura advertise. I bought it because it's a food that a store in mya rea carries and they also deliver, it's a wholesome food, in my price range, and it works for us. I've never seen a commercial from them or a magazine ad or a billboard ad or a radio commercial, or anything else for that matter. I've heard about them via word of mouth and via their website which I personally looked up after hearing about them via word of mouth. I'm not saying they don't, but I've yet to see them advertise. Many of the premium foods don't seem to advertise much.


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## domari

BoxerMommie said:


> Natural sugar and processed sugar are 2 very different things just an FYI.
> 
> Except the companies that do NOT use it have studies to back it up. They TEST their product to make sure it isn't there. What I'm saying is that I would prefer to purchase a product that condemns the use of a known cancer causing agent and tests their product for it to make sure it isn't in it that purchases from other sellers who have done the same and have the tests to back it up, rather than just letting it slide, saying no big deal, and even in that same context say it's not only no big deal but it's okay. No, the food I buy more does NOT cost more than TOTW actually and I do not believe that paying more is a sure fire way to get something better, BUT Diamond is known to have had issues in the past, they were part of the food recall they have a very half a$$ed way of looking at things and certainly do not seem to care about their customers in the least TOTW is manufactured by Diamond BTW.
> 
> Again it's a personal choice, and no I do not believe everything I hear, however I am also not going to knowingly feed myself, my family, or my pets something that I KNOW is a poison and not only do that but then pay that company money when they could care less. Personally I buy Natura made food and it is cheaper than TOTW cost wise and has a company that has quite a few quality control points, does quality control tests to make sure their product is sound, and has really pushed for companies to stop using Ethoxyquin.
> 
> Like I said, no nothing is a 100% guarantee, but I will not knowingly use a food made by a company who has proven they have poor quality control, who has had major issues in the past, who knowingly uses a poison as a preservative and doesn't seem to care, when I can use a company that doesn't have these issues and attitudes for either cheaper or not much more (depending on the food) and does do quality control tests to make sure that the poison is not found in their food.
> 
> I'm not going to keep going back and forth on this. Yes you can find something wrong with anything, but knowingly feeding yourself or anyone/anything else poison IMO is very unacceptable. Nobody seems to dispute the fact that you should not feed a foot with BHA or BHT yet Ethoxyquin really isn't any different. Use the food or don't, just know that by using it there is a pesticide in it used for preserving and that there ARE other companies out there with similar food choices for not much more money that guarantee they do not use this product in their foods and do quality control checks to ensure this. It's up to you who you'd rather give your money to and trust your pet's life with.
> 
> And honestly I've never seen Natura advertise. I bought it because it's a food that a store in mya rea carries and they also deliver, it's a wholesome food, in my price range, and it works for us. I've never seen a commercial from them or a magazine ad or a billboard ad or a radio commercial, or anything else for that matter. I've heard about them via word of mouth and via their website which I personally looked up after hearing about them via word of mouth. I'm not saying they don't, but I've yet to see them advertise. Many of the premium foods don't seem to advertise much.


I still haven't found any real "proof" that there's poison/pesticides in the food. 

At least you admit you have a problem with Diamond products. Do you think all Chicken Soup food is bad for the same reason? There were a lot of products included in the recall, and not all of the Diamond products were recalled, just some of them. For all we know, human food products could have been contaminated and covered up. After all, the FDA is a government agency, they cover up a lot of things, it's all about money and politics, not about our health and safety. 

I've never seen an ad for TOTW either, just stumbled upon it in the store. Have you seen their ads on tv or magazines? If so, tell me where. 

Doesn't TOTW do quality control tests? How can you prove that they don't? 


Have you been to the Natura company in person, have you seen how they manufacture their product, or do you depend on what they tell you? Have you seen all the records of what they tested, have they been able to show you all of their research? Or do you just take their word for it. Do they tell you the exact source of every ingredient that they use in their food, where the meat comes from, can you see that those animals have all been tested for contaminants and preservatives? Or do you just take their word for it. 

If you have absolute proof that all you say about them is true, I'd really love to read it and see it for myself. If not, then I'll just have to consider it all your opinion and nothing more.


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## BoxerMommie

The fact that they use Ethoxyquin and that it IS a pesticide that is used as a preservative is NOT my opinion. Feel free to do a search on it. The fact is it is a pesticide, personally I choose not to knowingly feed my dogs pesticides. Maybe I'm weird, if so in this case I don't mind that. Of course we don't all know where our food comes from, but I personally refuse to purchase a food that I know contains poison for a fact. And just an FYI I used and stopped using TOTW when I found out about the ingredient LONG before I ever knew it was manufactured by Diamond, it was just one more reason for me not to like them given their attitude over using a known poison as a preservative when there are natural ones out there.

This is my last post on this topic, you seem to want to argue with everything. All I was stating in the first place was check into it to the ORIGINAL POSTER that it may be a big reason why some choose not to feed it (such as myself) and may not know about it (as I did not in the beginning until somebod told me), in which case it may be a reason for them to choose not to feed it. I know I'm not the only one who stopped feeding this food when I found out about the ingredient as I know others who did as well. It was information, not to start an all out war. If you choose to feed your dogs pesticide food then hey so be it, plenty of people feed Science Diet and others as well, that's their choice, I am simply letting the ORIGINAL POSTER know this information in case they would rather choose another grain free formula that does not use this as a preservative.

Also, just curious Domari, have you ever watched your dog die of cancer? I find it hard to believe the answer to this question is yes if you are still willing to feed this. I honestly hope you never have to kick yourself in the tush for possibly helping to cause your dog's agony and watching them go through that.


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## joodie

Evo Red Meat? is that any good? Does that contain cancer causing stuff?? I was between TOTW and Evo-Red Meat... but couldnt' find it in my local store. Don't want to pay $20 for shipping on top of the price of the bag. 

Thx!


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## Guest

Any of the Evo formulas are good. I've used the red meat formula and it suits my guy fine (Innova is a Natura product, previously mentioned in this thread by BoxerMommie).


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## BoxerMommie

LPacker79 said:


> Any of the Evo formulas are good. I've used the red meat formula and it suits my guy fine (Innova is a Natura product, previously mentioned in this thread by BoxerMommie).



ITA. Natura will also send you coupons if you request them through their website. They are a very good company and no they guarantee their foods are Ethoxyquin free.


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## rannmiller

Good news! I just checked my bag of Wellness (a little delayed, I know) and they also use ethoxyquin-free protein sources! Food for thought...

I guess if ethoxyquin is a concern for Joodie, then TOTW is not the best choice, I'd stick with Evo if it was between the two. 

Oh and back to your original post about the green tripe, I split a can of the Solid Gold Green Cow between my dogs this morning (first time ever) and they seemed to love it.


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## domari

I still haven't seen any proof that this cancer causing agent is in their food. 

Has anyone ever tested TOTW and found traces of Ethoxyquin in the food. You keep saying it's in there, but how do you know this for sure. Has the FDA or any other agency tested the food and found it to be there?

Have there been any studies done to show that more dogs who eat TOTW die of cancer than if they eat any other food?

I was told Purina causes cancer, yet my sisters female dog who wasn't even spayed until age 7, lived to be 17 without getting cancer. 

I suppose until I see real proof that it's in there, I'll continue to feed it. Check back with me in 5 years to see if my dogs are dying of cancer.


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## BoxerMommie

domari said:


> I still haven't seen any proof that this cancer causing agent is in their food.
> 
> Has anyone ever tested TOTW and found traces of Ethoxyquin in the food. You keep saying it's in there, but how do you know this for sure. Has the FDA or any other agency tested the food and found it to be there?
> 
> Have there been any studies done to show that more dogs who eat TOTW die of cancer than if they eat any other food?
> 
> I was told Purina causes cancer, yet my sisters female dog who wasn't even spayed until age 7, lived to be 17 without getting cancer.
> 
> I suppose until I see real proof that it's in there, I'll continue to feed it. Check back with me in 5 years to see if my dogs are dying of cancer.


Well my first dog ate Dog Chow his whole life (I didn't know any better at the time) and died of a brain tumor at the ripe old age of 7 (normal life span is 12-15 years), and suffered with it for 9 months before he passed so he was around 6 when he became bad enough to be clinical. Dog Chow is made by Purina and I do believe it contributed to his early demise. The sole cause of it? No, contributing factor? Yes.

And yes, any company that doesn't guarantee that they do not use Ethoxyquin you can pretty much guarantee that they do simply because it is a HUGE issue with a lot of people and companies that do not use it print it on their product for sure. If it is not printed on there I pretty much guarantee it is in there. And given what they wrote (or a portion of what they wrote) stating basically that it's a no big deal preservative I'd bet my bottom dollar that yes it is in there or at the very least that it is in some of their batches yes.

I truly hope you never have to watch your 4 legged family member become a completely different animal due to cancer. It definitely was not the highlight of my life and it does change you forever. And to treat it so non chalantly is absolutely appalling to me.


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## domari

BoxerMommie said:


> Well my first dog ate Dog Chow his whole life (I didn't know any better at the time) and died of a brain tumor at the ripe old age of 7 (normal life span is 12-15 years), and suffered with it for 9 months before he passed so he was around 6 when he became bad enough to be clinical. Dog Chow is made by Purina and I do believe it contributed to his early demise. The sole cause of it? No, contributing factor? Yes.
> 
> And yes, any company that doesn't guarantee that they do not use Ethoxyquin you can pretty much guarantee that they do simply because it is a HUGE issue with a lot of people and companies that do not use it print it on their product for sure. If it is not printed on there I pretty much guarantee it is in there. And given what they wrote (or a portion of what they wrote) stating basically that it's a no big deal preservative I'd bet my bottom dollar that yes it is in there or at the very least that it is in some of their batches yes.
> 
> I truly hope you never have to watch your 4 legged family member become a completely different animal due to cancer. It definitely was not the highlight of my life and it does change you forever. And to treat it so non chalantly is absolutely appalling to me.


And I know of dogs who've died of cancer and ate premium dog food all their lives, so even with the best diet, they still might get cancer. 

I'd still like to see proof that it's in the food for sure. So far, nobody has been able to prove it. No proof of research being done, no product testing, etc. 

Do all dog food companies make a list of all products that are NOT in their foods and print them on the bag? I have Innova cat food in front of me, I checked the label, it contains fish. The label does not mention any guarantee about ethoxyquin, so does that mean it's positively in the cat food I've been giving my cats and they'll all die of cancer too? 

You can't guarantee that if a dog eats ethoxyquin free food, that they'll never get cancer. On the other hand, you can't guarantee that if they do eat it, that they will positively get cancer. Flip a coin, the odds are the same. 

None of my dogs have ever died of cancer, even though I fed them food that doesn't meet your standards. I wonder how they all survived so long after eating what you consider to be poisons and pesticides all those years. Be appalled if you wish, but I don't make decisions based on opinions, I'd like facts, real proof.


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## rannmiller

domari said:


> And I know of dogs who've died of cancer and ate premium dog food all their lives, so even with the best diet, they still might get cancer.


Not to stir the pot or anything, but depending on _which _premium food they were fed, could have effected that outcome. Were they feeding a food that guaranteed ethoxyquin-free protein sources? Maybe they weren't and that could've potentially, possibly, maybe not making any promises, just throwing it out there, helped contribute to the cancer. 

TOTW is considered to be a premium food, yet here we are discussing how its questionable levels of ethoxyquin may be a carcinogen. 

Hmmmmm


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## BoxerMommie

rannmiller said:


> Not to stir the pot or anything, but depending on _which _premium food they were fed, could have effected that outcome. Were they feeding a food that guaranteed ethoxyquin-free protein sources? Maybe they weren't and that could've potentially, possibly, maybe not making any promises, just throwing it out there, helped contribute to the cancer.
> 
> TOTW is considered to be a premium food, yet here we are discussing how its questionable levels of ethoxyquin may be a carcinogen.
> 
> Hmmmmm



Yep, not all premium foods are created equal and on different levels as well. Same as not all meats or veggies or whatever are created equal in the human world. Personally I won't eat meat from Wal-Mart it tastes funny I typically buy mine from Costco, there's the same cut of meat, but personally I feel the Costco meat is a better quality even though it's the same cut.

And Domari if you really want proof, feel free to do an internet search and read for yourself. If I felt you truly wanted to be educated I would do it, however I really feel like I'm talking to a brick wall so I don't care to take my time in order to do that. If your dog's health means that much to you, then you can take your time and educate yourself.


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## domari

BoxerMommie said:


> Yep, not all premium foods are created equal and on different levels as well. Same as not all meats or veggies or whatever are created equal in the human world. Personally I won't eat meat from Wal-Mart it tastes funny I typically buy mine from Costco, there's the same cut of meat, but personally I feel the Costco meat is a better quality even though it's the same cut.
> 
> And Domari if you really want proof, feel free to do an internet search and read for yourself. If I felt you truly wanted to be educated I would do it, however I really feel like I'm talking to a brick wall so I don't care to take my time in order to do that. If your dog's health means that much to you, then you can take your time and educate yourself.


I have looked, all I found is opinion, not facts. Just as I'm getting here.


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## domari

rannmiller said:


> Not to stir the pot or anything, but depending on _which _premium food they were fed, could have effected that outcome. Were they feeding a food that guaranteed ethoxyquin-free protein sources? Maybe they weren't and that could've potentially, possibly, maybe not making any promises, just throwing it out there, helped contribute to the cancer.
> 
> TOTW is considered to be a premium food, yet here we are discussing how its questionable levels of ethoxyquin may be a carcinogen.
> 
> Hmmmmm



Ethoxyquin isn't the only ingredient which could be a problem.


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## rannmiller

domari said:


> Ethoxyquin isn't the only ingredient which could be a problem.


...in TOTW? So now you're admitting there's even more wrong with it? Or just in general? And saying that automatically implies that ethoxyquin _is _ a problem and yet you continue to, and defend feeding it? 

*Confused*


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## domari

rannmiller said:


> ...in TOTW? So now you're admitting there's even more wrong with it? Or just in general? And saying that automatically implies that ethoxyquin _is _ a problem and yet you continue to, and defend feeding it?
> 
> *Confused*



No, that's not what I meant at all. That wasn't admitting anything, and had nothing to do with TOTW. 

I love the way some of you twist words and decide they mean something other than intended.


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## domari

domari said:


> Do all dog food companies make a list of all products that are NOT in their foods and print them on the bag? I have Innova cat food in front of me, I checked the label, it contains fish. The label does not mention any guarantee about ethoxyquin, so does that mean it's positively in the cat food I've been giving my cats and they'll all die of cancer too?


Anyone want to answer this?


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## BoxerMommie

domari said:


> Anyone want to answer this?



On ones that are controversial and that some choose not to feed yes many do. Same as many Chinese restaurants in the human world will post "No MSG" in their windows to advertise that there is no MSG. But to be safe I personally call or e-mail the company before I start feeding the food. It is also typically on their website.


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## domari

BoxerMommie said:


> On ones that are controversial and that some choose not to feed yes many do. Same as many Chinese restaurants in the human world will post "No MSG" in their windows to advertise that there is no MSG. But to be safe I personally call or e-mail the company before I start feeding the food. It is also typically on their website.


So is the Innova full of cancer causing chemicals because their package doesn't mention it?

Which brands are the "controversial" ones and where are all the controversies?

Some restaurants post "No MSG" but that doesn't mean if you don't see it in the window that they add it anyway.


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## BoxerMommie

domari said:


> So is the Innova full of cancer causing chemicals because their package doesn't mention it?
> 
> Which brands are the "controversial" ones and where are all the controversies?
> 
> Some restaurants post "No MSG" but that doesn't mean if you don't see it in the window that they add it anyway.



No the companies being controversial the ingredient. And that is why I said to be safe I call or e-mail before feeding the food. No not ALL post the controversial ingredients not added however MANY do. I do not think Innova does, which is why I called the company to ASK. Canidae posts it on their website not their bags. Wellness posts it on some of their bags I've heard others say it isn't posted on some, it may have to do with which plant it is sent from or when the bag was manufactured but I also called them to inquire. If you are unsure, my point is to call or e-mail to get an answer, many companies post the controversial ingredients not used on their bags, a few do not, it just depends. I did not mean controversial companies but ingredients. No a company is not going to post that they don't use carrots in their food it isn't controversial, however many companies post that their food is Gluten free (such as Canidae used to do before it became untrue) since many people will not buy food with gluten in it, many companies will post that they only use human grade ingredients, that no soy, corn, by-products, or wheat is used, or that Ethoxyquin isn't used, etc. It's only the ingredients that are considered to be bad or that many people choose not to feed that a company *may* post on their bag or website that are not sure. Again though, if it isn't stated on the bag and you would like to know call or e-mail the company to inquire. If it isn't a difinitive no for them as well as their suppliers, then it isn't guaranteed.


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## Guest

*Food labels*

These are controlled by AAFCO which is the pet food quality....I don't know a word for them....organization?....racket?... They are funded mostly by the pet food industry. The big boys like Hills and Purina.

Years ago Wellness said "Human Grade" right on the label. The big boys complained and AAFCO outlawed that.

So now you do have to ask the companies to provide wriiten proof of their claims or sometimes know the secret code to some of the ingredients. (Such as "by-products" automatically means it's not Human Grade, as does "stomach digest".)


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## domari

Honestly I think the entire pet food industry is a racket.


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## RawFedDogs

*Food Labels*



zentrainer said:


> So now you do have to ask the companies to provide wriiten proof of their claims or sometimes know the secret code to some of the ingredients. (Such as "by-products" automatically means it's not Human Grade, as does "stomach digest".)


"Meals" such as chicken meal, lamb meal, etc are never human grade.


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## domari

RawFedDogs said:


> "Meals" such as chicken meal, lamb meal, etc are never human grade.


Is human grade food necessary? In a thread about raw food, someone said dogs can eat road kill and that dogs stomachs can digest what humans can not. Obviously that's not human grade either, so why the big fuss about dogs getting human grade food if they can eat dead and diseased animals without getting sick?


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## rannmiller

That's a good point! It was also brought up that dogs can and will happily eat freezer burned meat and meat that stinks to high heaven and is no where near "human grade." And then there are some meats (hot dogs, bologna, bacon, lunchables, spam etc.) that I don't even consider to be human grade, yet I still see people eating them and saying they're bad for dogs! Go figure.


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## joodie

*on a different note*

I went to Petco and OMG!! The have Wellness and Natural Balance and even the Green Tripe food. I was so happy to see that I won't have to order it online!


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## Guest

*Yes to Human Grade*

It is important. Dogs shouldn't eat dead and diseased animals. That's what's in the low grade dog foods, SD, Nutro, Purina. etc. The 4 D's - dead, diseased, disabled and drugged.

The general rule is, that if you wouldn't eat it, don't feed it to your dog.

Now again, I have no clue why they passed a law making it legal to eat road kill. My guess is that people would hit a deer with their car and maybe it used to be illegal to take it home and eat it. I don't really know.

They are talking about FRESH road kill though, not rotted.

Which is not to say that a dog wouldn't eat it. Dave Barry says "Dogs will eat anything because they know they can just throw it up later".

Freezer burn would be an iffy one for me


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## msheedy

*Taste of the Wild*

Hi,

This product is manufactured by Diamond Pet Food. This company has had serious recall issues.

mary Ellen


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## TurnerPack

This is the response I got when I asked about Ethoxyquin.


"Thanks for asking! From what I have read on the issue (and it primarily
includes scientific literature), there has been no proof of this
preservative being a carcinogen or harmful to health at the very low
levels it might be used to preserve ingredients. It is also used to
preserve some spices for human consumption, as well as the skin of some
fruits."


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## annamak

*Taste of the Wild*

I've studied human nutrition for 5 years now (it was my job in a hospital). When I became a dog owner I switched to animal nutrition. I have to say I've tried the Taste of the Wild (Bison and Venison formula) and my Boxer did so well on. I really highly recommend this food.


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## BoxerMommie

annamak said:


> I've studied human nutrition for 5 years now (it was my job in a hospital). When I became a dog owner I switched to animal nutrition. I have to say I've tried the Taste of the Wild (Bison and Venison formula) and my Boxer did so well on. I really highly recommend this food.


My Boxer did well on it too, however once I found out the issue, there's no way I'd recommend a food that is preserved with a pesticide. JMHO.


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## LoveNewfies

Wow, what a thread this is!

First, TOTW is not just manufactured by Diamond, it is owned by Diamond. 

To address the issue with ingredients being listed, manufacturers only put on the label what THEY put in the food, not what some supplier might have added to an ingredient, that is all that's required of them. The ethoxoquin issue in premium foods is that many fish meals have this in it, not all dog food companies guarantee the fish meal they use is ethoxoquin free.


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## danesandhorses

I bought a bag of Taste of the Wild and my dogs werent crazy about it. I have tried different kinds of canned tripe. It always smells and they seem to like it.


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## lightforce18

I just got a 5lb bag of TOTW for my Dog. After reading this thread im going to just feed him the 5lbs and switch to a diff food. Is before grain buffalo a good one?


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## rannmiller

Yeah BG Buffalo is a pretty decent food. I'm more a fan of Orijen or Evo, but BG is a pretty good food as well.


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## lightforce18

rannmiller said:


> Yeah BG Buffalo is a pretty decent food. I'm more a fan of Orijen or Evo, but BG is a pretty good food as well.



Well my dogs only 6 months old. Orijen and Evo have ALOT of protien which im not sure is good for a puppy. I want a good for him thats all life stages. Sadly Taste of the Wild isnt going to be it


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## Winniesdad

Hmmm well...it seems like people have some strong opinions but I like ToTW. They don't use EQ its just that most fish companies do so TOTW can't guarantee EQ free sources. FWIW I wouldn't feed _any_ dogfood that had fish as it's major protein source. Up here in Minnesota we all used to live on panfish and now it's recommended that children and pregnant mothers don't eat any. :frown: And other folks should limit intake. And MN is far from the most polluted state. The problems with fish go far beyond EQ.

Anyhow in the Waterfowl and High Prairie recipes fish is the 14th ingredient way down there with the vitamins. Wellness was my first choice but Winnie had horrible gas and chronic loose stools. We tried a number of other higher end dogfoods with the same results. With ToTW she has no gas, firm but not too firm stools that turn white and disappear quickly, she looks great and I can rotate between the 2 formulas for some variety. Works for us I guess.


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## rannmiller

lightforce18 said:


> Well my dogs only 6 months old. Orijen and Evo have ALOT of protien which im not sure is good for a puppy. I want a good for him thats all life stages. Sadly Taste of the Wild isnt going to be it


A) Orijen has a puppy formula, so it IS appropriate for a puppy

B) Dogs are made to eat and digest protein, especially from animal based sources, such as in Orijen. _In fact_, animal-based protein sources are essential to dogs for a variety of reasons, including maintaining proper kidney function and growth. Grain-free foods with more meat in them are simply the best way to feed our carnivore pets. Ergo, Orijen would be a perfect food for a puppy. 

C) "All Life Stages" foods are something of a something of a marketing gimmick along with "life stage" foods. With "all life stage" foods, you simply feed the puppy more of it than you would to an adult dog. So if you want to benefit from a premium food by feeding less, I'd say a gain free puppy food would be the way to go. 

D) However if you insist on an "all life stage food" Canidae and Natual Balance are options, though I'm not HUGE fans of either of them.


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## claybuster

domari said:


> I have looked, all I found is opinion, not facts. Just as I'm getting here.




Yes, and I feel you are correct here and make the most sense. Ethoxoquin issue is called internet hype and rumor. Any dog food company can claim they don't use it, but they have no control over the fish before it arrives to their facilities. No captain of a commercial fishing vessel is going to jeopardize a catch of fish based on dog food internet hype and rumor. They are going to spray that fish down to preserve it so it doesn't spoil before it gets to the docks, bottom line. Again, the dog food company has no control over what happens to the fish prior to it's arrival, but they can play that card as a marketing strategy because they know people are concerned about it and thinking about it. Regardless of the claim, it can only apply to after they receive the fish not prior, for they have no control over what happens on the boat. Odds would favor, even if the manufacturer makes the claim, the fish has already been sprayed Ethoxoquin long before it hits the docks, and they have no control over that, and the rest becomes marketing strategy.


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## claybuster

lightforce18 said:


> Well my dogs only 6 months old. Orijen and Evo have ALOT of protien which im not sure is good for a puppy. I want a good for him thats all life stages. Sadly Taste of the Wild isnt going to be it


Compare all the dog food companies puppy foods with regular their Adult formulas and you will find they are always higher in protein. Discount 25% of Orijen and EVO protein content due to fruits and vegetables (biological value of zero). These clearly ARE NOT 40-42% animal based protein feeds. If the they were 40-42% animal based protein, your cost would be higher than what you pay now.


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## RawFedDogs

claybuster said:


> Discount 25% of Orijen and EVO protein content due to fruits and vegetables (biological value of zero).


Where do you get that 25% number, CB? I don't know if its right or wrong. Just want to know your source.


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## lightforce18

Ill figure something out. Maybe Ill get before grain, or wellness or instinct. Id get orijen but its 65 bux for the big bag that's ALOT of money lol.


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## whitewlf00

*Acana*

My dane had digestive issues every since I got him and I tried Eagle Pack, Innova, TOTW, Orijen and now he is on Acana Grasslands which is for sensitive stomachs and is doing awesome.

Its from the same company as Orijen and is grain free and is alittle cheaper ..


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## MajorDragon

*Taste of the Wild*

We tried it with our many mini-dachshunds. Within a week or so, they became very aggressive, fighting a lot. Since the only change in their routine was the use of that dog food, we discontinued it, and they reverted back to their usual selves. Then after a month we introduced some of it mixed with our other food. Again, they've become very aggressive, fighting each other even more. One, who is usually very sweet, even bit my wife a couple of times, very uncharacteristic of him (and no, I won't loan him for you to give your ex-wife :wink. Our conclusion is that there's something about Taste of the Wild that causes aggression, and it shouldn't be fed to dogs.


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## Smw5582

Not to fight  but sugar IS natural. White sugar is not made from some crazy man made ingredients nor does it go through some crazy chemical undertaking. It goes through a process that removes the molasses. . Much like how flour is milled to remove the bran. Void of nutrients? Yes. Unnatural? No. Second diamond recalled their OWN products. They were never recalled by the FDA. . To me that shows concern. And third the email did state that they used natural methods to preserve their food. .read it again. Did it ever occur to anyone it just might cost to much to have it guaranteed which would up the price of their food. It's the same for organic groceries. . Many local farmers use organic methods but choose not to pay for the lable or they can't pay for the lable.


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## nupe

joodie said:


> Anyone else using this food? It's grain free which I'm hoping will help with my Rottie's gas problem.
> 
> I also want to try Green Cow Tripe food. Anyone have any experience with the Trippett or Green Cow canned food?



Raw feeder here , but also uses the green tripe in a can from trippettes...good product and dog loves it!!!


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