# Is mixing raw with kibble bad?



## CanineZoo (Jul 22, 2008)

Hi all! New to this particular forum, though I am a member of other forums. I do a lot of rescue work and I own seven wonderfully spoiled little furry family members. I currently am feeding the following:

10 year old Shih Tzu gets Cal. Natural L&R because of allergies
8 year old Beagle, 3 year old Beagle, and 7 year old English Pointer, and 5 year old Dachsund get Innova Adult, and 8 month old Shih Tzu gets Innova Puppy.
11 year old Pit Bull Terrier gets Blackwood 2000 (blah, I know. He REFUSES anything else, and in his old and feeble age, I just let him eat it).

However, I really want to go RAW eventually. I'd like to start out slow, if at all possible. 

I heard from others (on other boards) about raw bones really helping with teeth. Well three of my guys had a dental done a couple months ago, so I began to buy raw beef bones by the bag loads. They LOVED chewing the meat off and then chewed on the bone for a while until it was nice and clean. Then I heard that this is horribly bad and that I should not allow them to have any raw meat, even from the bones, as long as they are on a kibble (mixed with canned for moisture) diet.

Is this true? And why? Thanks in advance!


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## Guest (Jul 23, 2008)

*I've done it for years.*

My last dogs lived to be 15 (Chow) and 16 years old (Dalmatian).

So I would say it worked pretty well for them.


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## mastifflover2 (Jul 1, 2008)

Even though I don't have much experience with feeding raw, I've asked my sister and her husband a lot of questions about it. They feed their 2 German Shepards raw about 95% of the time, and during the day they leave a little kibble in their dishes if they want to nibble a little during the day. They also got me started on feeding my 2 Mastiff's very large raw bones and they love them..even my 9 year old. I feed Pinnacle and haven't noticed any problems at all with the raw bones. Hopefully someone who feeds raw will be around and will help you with your questions.
After the scares lately with the dog foods, I might end up doing the same thing eventually with my 16 month old.


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## bellamicuore (Jun 16, 2008)

I have heard that you shouldn't mix raw with kibble as it can cause stomach upset. You can feed raw in the morning and kibble at night, you just shouldn't feed them at the same time.


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## rannmiller (Jun 27, 2008)

That's what I've heard too, because feeding a protein source chock full of enzymes (raw) and one that isn't (kibble) can really do a number on the tummy and intestines. But as Bella said, keep them separated by about 12 hours and it should be okay. I'd recommend an eventual goal to make a clean switch over to raw after a little while though, as this can also get hard on the tummy after a while.


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## Guest (Jul 23, 2008)

I've always heard that you shouldn't feed raw and kibble in the same meal because they have different rates of digestion. Kibble digests much slower than raw, and it keeps the raw food in the digestive tract longer, increasing the possibility of the body absorbing bacteria like salmonella.


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## rannmiller (Jun 27, 2008)

That is also a fantastic reason not to do it.


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## Guest (Jul 24, 2008)

*???*

Wouldn't that be like saying I shouldn't eat cooked pasta with a salad because they digest at different rates?

I know really radical foodies who don't eat fruit with anything else but I have to have salad with my pasta!!


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## rannmiller (Jun 27, 2008)

But do either of those things have bacteria on them that shouldn't be in your system for over a certain amount of time without fear of illness?


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

I have heard since I have been feeding raw, not to mix the two. Most all raw feeders say that. The reason as already stated is that carnivores have short intestines specifically designed to get the meat out of the body before it rots. Kibble, being slowly digested, can slow down the meat and keep it in the intestines longer than it should be there.

After saying that, I have heard of several people who feed kibble one meal and raw the next every day with no problems. I think the possiblilty of a problem is always there. Sometimes my dogs get some pretty "ripe" meat and I wouldn't want it hanging around any longer than it has to.

I really don't understand why someone who has dog eating raw would want to feed kibble even on a part time basis. To me, it seems like eating a big piece of chocolate cake and a diet cola. A proper prey model raw diet is pretty much a perfect diet and kibble is just the opposite.


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## Guest (Jul 24, 2008)

For rannmiller~~~~ a study was done of bacteria in home kitchens and surprisingly the most was found in the food of a Vegan. Like on the raw potatoes and such. I was stunned. Plus food stays in a humans system much longer than a dogs. (I think there is stuff in there from when I was a kid.)

For rawfeddogs ~~~~there is none so zealous as the newly converted. You proudly proclaim that you have been feeding raw since 2002. That's 5 or 6 years. I'm not even sure how long I've been doing it. 15 or 16 years to be sure.

As I said before my previous dogs lived to be 15 and 16. I have a 2 year old pup right now with perfect poop and digestive system. He eats raw with a bit of crunchy kibble on it. My last cats all lived to be 19 and they ate the same - raw with a bit of crunchies. My 4 current cats are healthy and happy eating the same.

My reason is that in the event that something should happen to me I want them used to kibble. I had surgery once where I left the hospital the same day AMA, and lived on the couch for two weeks recovering. I staggered up to let the dogs out and in and had pre bagged their portions of kibble to pour in their bowls. They had no raw at all for the first week.

You may be young as well as relatively new to feeding raw but a funny thing happens sometimes. Life. And sometimes we don't have a lot of control over it. I want my dogs to be as ready as possible.

I have clients who feed the same as I do. They make it a point to feed as many types of kibble as possible in addition to raw. They travel all the time. Some in and out of the country and there are some places where you never know what you can get for your pet.

And as for your last sentence....why would someone who feeds raw vaccinate and give antibiotics and steroids and flea and heartworm toxins? That's a bit like a diet soda, a piece of cake, a Marlboro and a line of coke isn't it?

I apologize if this post seems harsh. When you submit these pompous posts I lose hope of any honest discourse where learning and understanding might have a chance to take place.

Since you seem unwilling to agree to disagree, I'll make this the last post of yours that I read. Another thing I've learned about life is that it's short. I go for the joy.

I find great joy in learning and sharing. Little in being lectured.


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

zentrainer said:


> My reason is that in the event that something should happen to me I want them used to kibble.


I don't see a reason for my dogs to get used to kibble. They will never have another kibble in their mouth. I have made arraingments to see to that. My wife is capable of buying, packing, freezing, thawing, and feeding the raw diet. So is my son who is married with a family of his own. He can properly feed my dogs if needed. You see, you can make arraingements for unforseen possiblities.

I just don't see a reason to feed my dogs kibble just because the world MIGHT come to an end tomorrow. I will handle problems when they arise.



> I had surgery once where I left the hospital the same day AMA, and lived on the couch for two weeks recovering. I staggered up to let the dogs out and in and had pre bagged their portions of kibble to pour in their bowls. They had no raw at all for the first week.


Why couldn't you have just as easily prepackaged raw food? All my dogs raw food is already packaged in meal size packs. All that is necessary is to thaw and hand it to the dogs. Sometimes I forget to thaw and feed it frozen.



> You may be young as well as relatively new to feeding raw but a funny thing happens sometimes.


Hehe, I would wager I am the oldest member here by several years.



> Life. And sometimes we don't have a lot of control over it. I want my dogs to be as ready as possible.


I make it a point to pretty much have control over my life. Stuff happens and when it does, I handle it. You can't prepare for every possiblity of what may happen tomorrow. Feeding kibble "just in case" is a cop out. It's the same as giving every vitamin in the world "just in case" it might be missing from their diet.



> And as for your last sentence....why would someone who feeds raw vaccinate and give antibiotics and steroids and flea and heartworm toxins? That's a bit like a diet soda, a piece of cake, a Marlboro and a line of coke isn't it?


No, not at all. I feed raw for the nutrition. I have not given any antiboitics or steriods but if they are called for I will use them. You see, they have one good quality ... they actually do what they are supposed to. I give flea treatments when I see fleas for the same reason ... they get rid of fleas. I give heartworm treatments for the same good reason. They stop heartworms.



> I apologize if this post seems harsh.


Hey! It doesn't bother me. I didn't see anything harsh at all. I saw you typing your thoughts. Thats not being harsh. Thats being honest. I admire that.



> When you submit these pompous posts I lose hope of any honest discourse where learning and understanding might have a chance to take place.


I strongly suspect that by "learning and understanding" you mean that I agree with you regardless of what you say. What is it in these "pompous posts" that is incorrect? It is pompous to make truthful statements?


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## rannmiller (Jun 27, 2008)

Funny, I really appreciate both Zentrainer's and Rawfeddogs' styles on this forum. I don't know why everyone here gets so up in arms about Rawfeddogs' perspectives. Maybe he can seem "pompous" at times, but I think that comes more from the fact that you can't hear someone's tone of voice in simple typing. 

Zentrainer, you're usually so happy and I love reading your posts because they're so upbeat and helpful, I was very sad to see you take a turn like that. 

Rawfeddogs, I love getting your side of things bluntly without dancing around the issue and I can usually find several sources to back your claims later on. 

The point is: stop fighting!!! It's getting old seeing everyone get so upset when Rawfeddogs posts anything. Jeez, have some fun people! Agree to disagree, dispute the facts and opinions, and move on with life!


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## Guest (Jul 24, 2008)

Well, to quote one of our Presidential candidates "I don't do cower".

I can only take so much nonsense. I have tried many polite methods and they didn't work. It takes two people to agree to disagree and boy, we all better realize that there are no "facts" when it comes to nutrition. (and a whole lot of other things.) The world is ever changing and I don't want to be so set in my ways, so sure that I am right that I don't change along with the world.

I have clients who refuse to listen when I tell them they are being too rough with their dogs. I point out that their dogs don't like it by clearly describing the dogs body language. I point them to studies that show treating dogs in this manner can cause aggression and explain the consequences. (Dog bites, they get sued, they lose their house.)

If they still don't listen I don't work with them. And that's after I've taken into account their learning styles, their life styles, where they are at in their lives and what might be possible for them.

I really do try to be understanding and I love hearing opposing views, but sometimes I'd just as soon go talk to my cats, it's much more productive.


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## domari (Jun 17, 2008)

RawFedDogs said:


> I don't see a reason for my dogs to get used to kibble. They will never have another kibble in their mouth. I have made arraingments to see to that. My wife is capable of buying, packing, freezing, thawing, and feeding the raw diet. So is my son who is married with a family of his own. He can properly feed my dogs if needed. You see, you can make arraingements for unforseen possiblities.
> 
> I just don't see a reason to feed my dogs kibble just because the world MIGHT come to an end tomorrow. I will handle problems when they arise.
> 
> ...


What do you do if you have to go out of town? Do you have a petsitter who goes to your house and feeds your dogs? I don't have any family locally who can care for my dogs when I'm gone, so I have to board them. 

Also, as far as you being the oldest, maybe not.


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## rannmiller (Jun 27, 2008)

Well if they're already portioned out into meal-sized bags, it wouldn't be that hard for a pet sitter to just take them out and hand them to the pups.


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## domari (Jun 17, 2008)

rannmiller said:


> Well if they're already portioned out into meal-sized bags, it wouldn't be that hard for a pet sitter to just take them out and hand them to the pups.



True, same with bringing them to a kennel for boarding. When we board our dogs we lug 40 lb bags of food with us to the kennel because we don't like what they feed the dogs.


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

domari said:


> What do you do if you have to go out of town? Do you have a petsitter who goes to your house and feeds your dogs?


I use my son since we moved out here to the country about 4 years ago. Before that I have always used a petsitter that comes to the house, feeds, and walks the dogs. I looked at several boarding kennels but just couldn't bring myself to do that. I did find some boarding kennels that would feed them raw but never used them.



> I don't have any family locally who can care for my dogs when I'm gone, so I have to board them.


I know people who use neighbors or friends for pet sitters. They work out a deal where each will care for the other's dogs. 



> Also, as far as you being the oldest, maybe not.


Be careful. I think i have that one won! Were you born before 1950? I was born way before then.  _<---- a smiley face ... do these smileys show up on other people's computers? They don't on mine. I just get a little white box with a red "X" in it._


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## domari (Jun 17, 2008)

RawFedDogs said:


> I use my son since we moved out here to the country about 4 years ago. Before that I have always used a petsitter that comes to the house, feeds, and walks the dogs. I looked at several boarding kennels but just couldn't bring myself to do that. I did find some boarding kennels that would feed them raw but never used them.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


My kids all live in different states, so they can't help with the dogs and cats. We're thinking about moving closer to my oldest son, so if we do then we'd never have to worry about the animals again. 


I don't have a petsitter. One of my neighbors and I used to take care of each others pets when we went away, but I really didn't trust him all that much to make sure the dogs didn't get loose. I have one escape artist that needs to be watched very carefully. Two of our dogs are very protective, so letting someone come in and out of the house when we're not here is tricky. Only people we know well can come in when we're not home. I rather have the dogs at home when we're not here, keeps the bad guys out too!


If I brought raw food to the boarding kennel we use, the guy who cares for the dogs would probably eat it himself and feed the dogs Purina while they were there! Really, he's a nice guy and takes good care of the dogs, but I'm sure he'd think the meat was too good for dogs to eat. My son and his son are good friends so he gives us a great price to board the dogs. Since the dogs aren't in our home, the two protective dogs don't give him any trouble. His son likes to play with the dogs during the day when they're being boarded, so they get attention there as well as a secure safe place to stay. We bring our own food with us, so the dogs don't have to eat Purina. 

Ok, you are older than I am. I was born in the 50's not way before!

I don't know why the smilies don't work for you. Let me try one...









Hmmm, mine worked. Did you remember to put







after it??


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## domari (Jun 17, 2008)

RawFedDogs said:


> Be careful. I think i have that one won! Were you born before 1950? I was born way before then.  _<---- a smiley face ... do these smileys show up on other people's computers? They don't on mine. I just get a little white box with a red "X" in it._












I just tried the smiley you used and it didn't work for me either. Maybe you can't use the url's from this forum, you have to use your own. I'm stumped.


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## rannmiller (Jun 27, 2008)

Same here, the smileys hate me


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

domari said:


> Ok, you are older than I am. I was born in the 50's not way before!


You're just a kid then. 



> Hmmm, mine worked. Did you remember to put
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No I didn't. All I did was put a colon and right parenthese like a normal text smiley. : ) Like that with no space. Instead of putting a smiley, it puts the white box. I wouldn't care if it just put the : ) . Other boards I'm on puts the yellow smiley face when it type that in. Oh well. : ) I guess I'll start using a space.

It's way past my bed time. I'm goin to bed.


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## domari (Jun 17, 2008)

rannmiller said:


> Same here, the smileys hate me


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## BabyHusky (Jul 21, 2008)

Haha Domari. That actually made me laugh out loud at work. Thanks for making me look like a crazy person.


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## rannmiller (Jun 27, 2008)

Haha that was pretty funny!


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## CanineZoo (Jul 22, 2008)

Thanks for the great answers guys, I really appreciate it! Some responses have brought up another question for me though:

If I am feeding straight raw, and something were to happen (say I end up in the hospital, or anything that prevents me from being around to feed them for a long period of time) and I have no one to prepare raw, what will happen if they go straight back onto kibble? Will it make them sick? Worse?


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## rannmiller (Jun 27, 2008)

I wouldn't recommend it, but I can't speak from experience. "Preparing" raw food isn't that hard, just take it out of the fridge or freezer and hand it to the dogs.


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

CanineZoo said:


> If I am feeding straight raw, and something were to happen (say I end up in the hospital, or anything that prevents me from being around to feed them for a long period of time) and I have no one to prepare raw, what will happen if they go straight back onto kibble?


It doesn't take a lot of prep to go to the grocery store and buy some chicken parts to feed. It would be much healthier for your dogs to eat nothing but chicken parts for a few months than to eat kibble for a few months.

_"When I ran a busy veterinary practice, many of my clients fed almost exclusively chicken backs and frames -- whether to adult dogs or litters of puppies -- and their animals showed excellent health."_
Dr. Tom Lonsdale "Work Wonders" Page 25



> Will it make them sick? Worse?


It's just not a question to worry about. Have someone lined up who will feed them chicken parts in your absence.


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## rannmiller (Jun 27, 2008)

RawFedDogs said:


> It's just not a question to worry about. Have someone lined up who will feed them chicken parts in your absence.


Funny you should mention that, one of my dogs is going to run out of kibble right when I leave for vacation this week. At first I was tempted to buy more kibble for her, so as not to complicate things for her pet sitter. Then I realized it's much easier to hand over the chicken out of the package than have another bag and another bowl with another measurement to worry about, so I'm just going to have her pet sitter start feeding her raw as I'd planned for when Pennywise ran out. 

I almost feel bad for my pet sitter that she has to deal with measuring out the two other bowls and my cat's food to boot, but dang it I really want to use up the last of their kibble first.


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

rannmiller said:


> Funny you should mention that, one of my dogs is going to run out of kibble right when I leave for vacation this week.


If you are just now switching your dog, I wouldn't ask a sitter to introduce raw food to her. There are sometimes little unexpected things that crop up and you need to be there to handle them. Things like dog refusing to eat, or diarrhea, etc. If you are just now switching her, I would suggest you not do that until you return from vacation.


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## Guest (Jul 26, 2008)

*That's why I always add a little kibble....*

I may not be able to plan a trip to the hospital or a sudden illness.


Yesterday, I cleaned the gutters on my house. Probably one of the scariest things I've ever done in my life. My frig was empty because today is the day I get food from my co-op.

Luckily there is kibble in the pantry and my pets are used to getting some with every meal.

Chicken is easy, but one of my cats is allergic to it. Cleaning up the mess from him eating it - not so easy. Having him prepared to eat kibble made with fish - priceless!


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

zentrainer said:


> I may not be able to plan a trip to the hospital or a sudden illness.


You can plan tonight for an eventual trip to the hospital or illness or emergency trip out of town. I have plans for me going or for me and my wife having to go together. I have also planned how to pay for such a trip to the hospital.



> My frig was empty because today is the day I get food from my co-op.


I never have less than a weeks supply of dogs raw food in the freezer. Usually it's closer to a month and I have 2 Great Danes and 2 cats to feed.



> Chicken is easy, but one of my cats is allergic to it.


Then have a few cans of fish for the cats for emergencies.

Instead of thinking of reasons you must mix kibble with your animal's raw diet, you should be thinking of ways solve those problems so you don't have to
.


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## Guest (Jul 26, 2008)

LOL! I bet you were well prepared for Y2 K too!

I don't see feeding kibble as a problem.


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

zentrainer said:


> LOL! I bet you were well prepared for Y2 K too!


Hehe, I knew it was going to be very anti climatic. But both the company I worked for and the company my wife worked for were having hissy fits. My wife had to go into work on new years day to make sure the computers and phone system were working. : )


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## EnglishBullTerriers (Sep 10, 2008)

I have to agree. I wouldn't feed a raw diet with a kibble within a 12 hour period and mixing the two kind of defets the purpose of feeding the raw diet in the first place. I have spoken with many vets and they all agree that if you feed one, you shouldn't feed the other due to the intestinal problems that will be created. At the same time most of the vets will also request that you but their brand of dog food because they get kick-backs from it. But if you look hard enough, you can find someone that will work with you with the raw diet thing and not judge the standards that you hold for your k-9 friends!


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