# What is most important to you?



## meggels (May 30, 2010)

When looking for a food, how would you order these qualities from most to least important?

1) Company reputation (recalls included in this)
2) Ingredient list
3) Proven track record of dogs doing well on it
4) Price

I'm also curious, would you be willing to look past a company that may not have a stellar reputation (ex: Purina), and an ingredient list that you may not love (ex: Pro Plan), if you have seen so many dogs doing well on a food?


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## lovemydogsalways (Mar 4, 2012)

Wow Meg I have actually been thinking allot about this lately. Mainly because I found this food in a feed store in the town I work in now. Momentum was not in stock when I went to order last week for the boys so I had to get a hold of Dr. Tim. If that keeps happening I will have to find something else.
Exclusive® Pet Food - Dogs
1) I do look at the company first which would include recalls
2)Ingredients also what the fat source is
3)G/A & kcal
4) price
Well this Exclusive food has corn gluten meal in it, but it is like 8th down the list. Honestly dogs have done well on this food. Just like your saying with PP. I have really been considering feeding it. I don't know what has overcome me. I used to despise corn in a dog food. Exclusive I can get a 35# bag for $38.99. However I think I would be feeding twice the amount as the Dr. Tim's because of the kcal difference. So in the end I would probably be buying twice the dog food which would end up costing more than one bag of Kinesis. I guess all I can do is try though.


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## NutroGeoff (May 15, 2013)

For me, I like to look at the ingredients first and then go with how well dogs are doing on it. The reputation is also pretty important to look into and see how the company does with their recalls if they have any and see if they have changed anything. Price is not a huge issue for me right now although I wouldn't be able to do an extrmely large payment for dog food.


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## domika (Jul 15, 2012)

1. Ingredient list. Above all else, I need to feel comfortable with what is in the food. I don't care if it's the best company with no recalls, if I don't like what's in it, then I won't use it.
2. Company reputation. This is kind of my previous point reversed 
3. Price. It's not really a huge factor for me, but more so than the last. 
4. Proven track record of dogs doing well on it. No one dog is the same as mine, so I only take this with a grain of salt.

And I think all my points answer your last question. No I would not look at a food that doesn't have the greatest track record and an ingredient list I don't love even if the dogs do well on it. There are so many other factors than just food that can make a dog appear as if it is doing well on a food. They could add supplements, groom daily, exercise a lot more than normal, etc.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

domika said:


> 1. Ingredient list. Above all else, I need to feel comfortable with what is in the food. I don't care if it's the best company with no recalls, if I don't like what's in it, then I won't use it.
> 2. Company reputation. This is kind of my previous point reversed
> 3. Price. It's not really a huge factor for me, but more so than the last.
> 4. Proven track record of dogs doing well on it. No one dog is the same as mine, so I only take this with a grain of salt.
> ...


What if you had a dog that did well on just an *average* food? Like a Eukanuba or Pro Plan? Would you still not feed it?


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## Shamrockmommy (Sep 10, 2009)

This is such an excellent question because I struggle with it myself! 

I would LOVE a plainish food at an average price by a company with outstanding customer service and no recalls.

I look at first:
Company reputation/recalls
Ingredients/calories
How other dogs are doing/reviews
Price
ANd then based on how my dogs do on it, include/exclude from rotation. 

Food prices go up and up and up an there is no way I can pay more than $65 for a bag. I also do cans (I like the higher end Fromm Shredded a lot, as do the dogs, and want to try weruva) and fresh additions, so they are not living on kibble alone.

I am not sure about recalls- if they killed dogs before, I've definitely avoided that company since (and in the case of diamond, that includes several other brands!). Salmonella recalls- things that dogs can handle or things to sortof more or less 'expect' when meat is being processed, maybe I don't get all bent out of shape about that. Like Natura. But my dogs did terrible on all of their foods, I've tried them several times. So I've not had it in my rotation ever. 

PetGuard is seeming to fit the bill, especially for my bichon, Darby, who has NO tear stains, or ear infections or yeasty swollen licked paws. She's like my canary. If there's something to react to, she will. But it's just ONE food. Chicken/rice. All the time. :/ 

ALL this food anxiety I have just happens to relate to my nature - I just want to do things the 'right' way and stay outta trouble! I wish Fromm would make a simpler grain free line. The ones they have now are so 'everything but the kitchen sink' and then quite expensive. I can't use their regular line because the barley in them gives the dogs gas, really foul gas, and the brewer's yeast in there makes Darby tear herself to shreds from the itching/scratching yeast infections. How nice would it be, though, at those price points of the gold line if I could feed it and it would keep the dogs healthy?

Sigh.
Such a good question!


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## Shamrockmommy (Sep 10, 2009)

meggels said:


> What if you had a dog that did well on just an *average* food? Like a Eukanuba or Pro Plan? Would you still not feed it?


YES. Absolutely. When I find that food, I'll let you know! (because I can't feed anything with corn in it to my dogs, since I am the one with the corn allergy and if they lick me, I break out in hives. Yay!)


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## FarminaND (May 23, 2013)

The US market is very interesting from this perspective. US consumers compared to European consumers are preoccupied with ingredients rather than actual nutrition and diet performance.

Pea protein is a good example compared to other vegetable concentrates. Pea Protein is perfectly acceptable to US consumers because of the belief this is a wholesome ingredient. I can assure you it is not as safe as corn gluten but corn gluten is unacceptable to many US consumers. Pea protein is even more processed than corn gluten.

We also believe that wholesome ingredients are best, but there are some ingredients like yeast extract of saccharomyces cerevisiae and FOS that we won't take out because they work so well.


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## riddick4811 (Nov 2, 2011)

Results and affordability are my 2 top concerns. My dogs must do well on the food and I must be able to afford it. I do also look at the reputation of the company, where the food is manufactured, and ingredients. I have no issues with corn, actually prefer it when used as a carb source over peas, potatoes, rice, etc. I do avoid soy and food with dyes and chewy bits. I will and have fed Pro Plan, but only the Pro Plan Performance and Sensitive Salmon formula. I will not use the ones with the shredded crap in it.


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## domika (Jul 15, 2012)

meggels said:


> What if you had a dog that did well on just an *average* food? Like a Eukanuba or Pro Plan? Would you still not feed it?


My dog does pretty well on a lot of foods, so I don't doubt that he *might* do well on one such as Pro Plan, etc., but since he does extremely well on others that I consider better quality than those I'll just stick with them. I mean, if he was doing terrible on the foods that I really liked of course I wouldn't continue with them. But yeah, I get what you are saying and it's really tough to answer black or white. Kind of a gray area.


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## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

#1, #2, #3 then #4.


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## apriliamille (Aug 28, 2013)

meggels said:


> When looking for a food, how would you order these qualities from most to least important?
> 
> 1) Company reputation (recalls included in this)
> 2) Ingredient list
> ...


my order

1. company reputation. this is HUGE, if they have a recall and or dogs have gotten sick or died. it wont go in my home or near my dogs. if they wont talk to me when i have a question or concern it wont go in my dogs tummies (outside of the first two months of my current pup's life i have talked for many work lunch hours with dog food companies on the phone about all things canine and those who talk with me and i feel good. its in my dog's tummy. i didnt know better with the boxer when he was young but now he is doing outstanding on proper food)
2. price i like to know the price and i do a spread sheet on a cost per day for my dogs
3. ingredient list if the company has a good reputation, they are not going to have junk that is not worthy of my dogs thus why its lower on my list since i try hard to talk with the companies
4. proven track record no offense to everyone i dont care what tom, joe and fred's (i dont know anyones names on this forum just random i typed) dogs do with the food outside of getting sick or passing on i care how my dogs do on the food

the last question. see number 4 of my order


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## Dr Dolittle (Aug 2, 2013)

FarminaND said:


> The US market is very interesting from this perspective. US consumers compared to European consumers are preoccupied with ingredients rather than actual nutrition and diet performance.
> 
> Pea protein is a good example compared to other vegetable concentrates. Pea Protein is perfectly acceptable to US consumers because of the belief this is a wholesome ingredient. I can assure you it is not as safe as corn gluten but corn gluten is unacceptable to many US consumers. Pea protein is even more processed than corn gluten.
> 
> We also believe that wholesome ingredients are best, but there are some ingredients like yeast extract of saccharomyces cerevisiae and FOS that we won't take out because they work so well.


FarminaND, Just when I am prompted to write a response, you do, and your ois better than mine would have been! US consumers, especially these foine folks on this website that love their dogs dearly, are preoccupied with ingredients becasue the marketing has brought them to that point. Using ingredients becasue of how well they work even though they lack the appeal the US market is looking for is quite noble. I am watching dogs on RX diets from vets being switched to fad foods and then needing surgery or worse being put down after their conditions return or worsen. I am sure we don't agree on everything but I hope you will continue to share with these good folks. maybe I can meet up with you for a coffee in a French cafe someday!


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## Dr Dolittle (Aug 2, 2013)

I admit I am baised because of my experience with therapeutic diets sold in vet clinics but my first concern is the reputation of the company. I like companies that were promoting nutrition way before it became cool! In other words, companies like Hills and Purina. One could argue Purina only got in the game as food sales left the grocery store so they had no choice but they do produce some good diets, even among awful stuff like Beneful! I want a company with LOTS of board certified nutritionists and chemists and a history of published research and a proven track record. I guess I just figure oif the company can manage diseases with nutrition, they must know something. Those of you that have read my rantings know I do not look at the ingredient panel at all since it tells me nothing of the quality of the ingredients and is manipulated to help sell food, not to inform. Reputation is great, but the final nutrient levels are really the most important to me. I am painfully aware that the most expensive foods offer nothing over lower priced foods and some are not even as nutritious as the lower priced foods. My Dalilah was a Bernese Mountain Dog who I loved dearly. I fed her Science Diet her whole life. She maintaoined a perfect weight, had a glossy coat, and never experienced any health issues. I put her down one month before her 13th birthday! 13! I fed it because too many vets told me they fed their own dogs Science Diet and had great healthy dogs too. I suppose my testimony isn't worth any more than the person that says Blue Buffalo is wonderful, so I guess we just do the best with what we know. Lastly, I would want to know the company makes their own food and doesn't have to made by someone else. I suppose I want a company where my own vet could call and talk to one of their nutrionists about my dog and their food, but to be fair, most food companies are not even equipped to do that.


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## Shamrockmommy (Sep 10, 2009)

Dr Doolittle, what about dogs who have sensitivites to certain food ingredients? Darby will tear herself up with red itchy skin, yeast infections, tear stains, etc when she gets something with brewer's yeast in it, among other ingredients. I avoid them even in treats.

Interestingly, I am petsitting a 19 year old poodle, he was my foster 15 years ago. He's been eating hills w/d for all that time. He looks good, wonderful coat, ooky ears though and hes' 19 and not on any meds nor does he have any health problems. He does poop. A lot. So... <shrugs>


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## bett (Mar 15, 2012)

1,2,3,4.

And 3 only matters on how MY dogs do on the food.


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## danielba73 (Sep 12, 2013)

I think you should look at ingredients first, then company reputation. I have a good track record of how well dogs do on a particular brand and I always tend to recommend the ones I know will give my clients good results. The last thing I tell my clients to look is price (since we are talking of quality food).


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## Celt (Dec 27, 2010)

I look at ingredients first (one reason is cause my spoilt pups won't eat food with cranberries in it), then reputation (mostly how did they handle a recall and for what), then comes price, and finally others' opinions. My pups have eagerly eaten and done well on some "poor" (in some opinions) food and have been "forced" to eat "good" foods and not done as well.


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## InkedMarie (Sep 9, 2011)

meggels said:


> When looking for a food, how would you order these qualities from most to least important?
> 
> 1) Company reputation (recalls included in this)
> 2) Ingredient list
> ...


For me, it's ingredient list, company and price. Proven track record for dogs means nothing to me, unless I'm talking to people I know and their dogs, not what the company says.


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## InkedMarie (Sep 9, 2011)

lovemydogsalways said:


> Wow Meg I have actually been thinking allot about this lately. Mainly because I found this food in a feed store in the town I work in now. Momentum was not in stock when I went to order last week for the boys so I had to get a hold of Dr. Tim. If that keeps happening I will have to find something else.
> Exclusive® Pet Food - Dogs


You can order dr Tim's online.


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## lovemydogsalways (Mar 4, 2012)

InkedMarie said:


> You can order dr Tim's online.


 Yes and as I said dr. tins momentum has been out of stock for two weeks. That is not good when I go to order food and can't even get it.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

lovemydogsalways said:


> Yes and as I said dr. tins momentum has been out of stock for two weeks. That is not good when I go to order food and can't even get it.


It is back in stock now. It was completely sold out, but it's back 

Dr. Tim's Momentum Highly Athletic Dog Dry Dog Food


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## lovemydogsalways (Mar 4, 2012)

meggels said:


> It is back in stock now. It was completely sold out, but it's back
> 
> Dr. Tim's Momentum Highly Athletic Dog Dry Dog Food


The 40 pound bags are still out. Unless it's just not updating right on my phone. I get the biggest bag for my big dogs.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

lovemydogsalways said:


> The 40 pound bags are still out. Unless it's just not updating right on my phone. I get the biggest bag for my big dogs.



Ahhhh I see that, sorry.

Would it be worth it though to just get a 35lb bag for now?


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## lovemydogsalways (Mar 4, 2012)

meggels said:


> Ahhhh I see that, sorry.
> 
> Would it be worth it though to just get a 35lb bag for now?


Dr. Tim actually sent me a big bag. I was due to be out of food last Wednesday. When I had checked the online sites on that Friday before to order they, were out of stock. I got in a panic because i had just got the boys switched over to that formulas with that first bag that was now almost out. So I contacted Dr. Tim and he sent out a bag to me on Monday after I had checked the online retailers. 
So as of right now I am good on food until the next time I need to order, but I worry I might run into this issue again. I asked a feed store in my area if they could get Dr.Tim's and they said no after they searched.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

lovemydogsalways said:


> Dr. Tim actually sent me a big bag. I was due to be out of food last Wednesday. When I had checked the online sites on that Friday before to order they, were out of stock. I got in a panic because i had just got the boys switched over to that formulas with that first bag that was now almost out. So I contacted Dr. Tim and he sent out a bag to me on Monday after I had checked the online retailers.
> So as of right now I am good on food until the next time I need to order, but I worry I might run into this issue again. I asked a feed store in my area if they could get Dr.Tim's and they said no after they searched.


Ahh Dr Tim, such a nice guy


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## InkedMarie (Sep 9, 2011)

IMO, if you rely on buying food online, like I do, it's smart to have a bag ahead, so you don't run out. This is another good reason to feed a variety, if you can't get one food, you have a back up.


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## Georgiapeach (Jan 24, 2011)

meggels said:


> When looking for a food, how would you order these qualities from most to least important?
> 
> 1) Company reputation (recalls included in this)
> 2) Ingredient list
> ...


Since I have one dog who's allergic to LOTS of ingredients, I have to look at that component first.

I don't pay much attention to how other dogs do on a kibble, b/c every dog is different. Even my own two dogs do differently on the same food. I just started feeding Earthborn Meadowfeast, which my allergy dog is doing well on, but my new dog has developed dry, itchy skin - sigh...(to be able to feed only one food is just a dream, I guess). 

Company reputation would come third (again, b/c I have to find a kibble with ingredients that my allergy dog can tolerate, which narrows down choices severely). 

Price comes last. Since my dogs are small, they don't eat much. If I still had big dogs, price would be more important to me, as I don't have a bottomless pocketbook.


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## Dr Dolittle (Aug 2, 2013)

Shamrockmommy said:


> Dr Doolittle, what about dogs who have sensitivites to certain food ingredients? Darby will tear herself up with red itchy skin, yeast infections, tear stains, etc when she gets something with brewer's yeast in it, among other ingredients. I avoid them even in treats.
> 
> Interestingly, I am petsitting a 19 year old poodle, he was my foster 15 years ago. He's been eating hills w/d for all that time. He looks good, wonderful coat, ooky ears though and hes' 19 and not on any meds nor does he have any health problems. He does poop. A lot. So... <shrugs>


Hey Shamrockmommy, If we have a hypersensitive dog than specific ingredients become the most important thing, I would say, as I am sure Georgiapeach would agree with me, it's really the only thing. I am a big nutrients guy but in her and your case you simply have to find something your dog can eat. I do have to wonder why we see so much more allergies in our dogs and our kids these days. Makes you wonder! 

Almost everyone said ingredients are the most important thing they look at. My point in most of what I write is that the marketing people of pet food know that. That's why they are lying to us about ingredients to raise prices and in many cases not providing any better nutrition. As Farmina said, Americans have abandoned nutrition for the pursuit of good looking or sounding ingredients. I know, I sound like a broken record, don't I?


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## Dr Dolittle (Aug 2, 2013)

meggels said:


> What if you had a dog that did well on just an *average* food? Like a Eukanuba or Pro Plan? Would you still not feed it?


Meggels, That is a great question! As consumers and folks that love our animals as family, we are willing to do the best for our pets. So what Makes Euk or Proplan average foods compared to Blue Buffalo or wellness, etc? How do food companies present a message that has us deciding which ones are top of the line and which ones are average. Purina has a much of flashy new ProPlan diets. Are they average? Science Diet has a new Ideal Balance Grain Free? Is that food better than the regular Science Diet, even now that those diets have a totally different ingredient panel? really good question! That's why you're in charge!


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## Herzo (Feb 5, 2011)

meggels said:


> Ahhhh I see that, sorry.
> 
> Would it be worth it though to just get a 35lb bag for now?


Yes I would think that it would sense there really is no difference in the price of those 2 bags.


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## domika (Jul 15, 2012)

Dr Dolittle said:


> Almost everyone said ingredients are the most important thing they look at. My point in most of what I write is that the marketing people of pet food know that. That's why they are lying to us about ingredients to raise prices and in many cases not providing any better nutrition. As Farmina said, Americans have abandoned nutrition for the pursuit of good looking or sounding ingredients. I know, I sound like a broken record, don't I?


I don't really care if they are "good looking" ingredients, but I don't really know what you mean by that. I don't feel comfortable feeding a meal labeled as "meat meal" so I looked for a named meal, etc. I'm not looking for how many fancy meals can they get in there. I'm looking to see how many times peas/potatoes are actually listed because it gives me a good idea of how much meat is actually in the food. I don't think looking at the ingredient list is a bad thing... how is reading an ingredient label abandoning nutrition? 

Also, I'm curious what foods do you consider to have a list of good looking ingredients?


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## FarminaND (May 23, 2013)

domika said:


> I don't really care if they are "good looking" ingredients, but I don't really know what you mean by that. I don't feel comfortable feeding a meal labeled as "meat meal" so I looked for a named meal, etc. I'm not looking for how many fancy meals can they get in there. I'm looking to see how many times peas/potatoes are actually listed because it gives me a good idea of how much meat is actually in the food. I don't think looking at the ingredient list is a bad thing... how is reading an ingredient label abandoning nutrition?
> 
> Also, I'm curious what foods do you consider to have a list of good looking ingredients?


Well, with our lines you don't have to guess at the amounts:

Grain Inclusive Line, Organic Oats & Organic Spelt (max 20% by weight): 30% - 35% GA Protein, 92% - 93% is animal protein, first two ingredients as high as 40% of formula by weight.

Grain Free Line, 37% - 42% GA Protein, 95% - 96% is animal protein, first two Ingredients as high as 55% of formula by weight.

You would have to make a lot of assumptions nowadays to make an accurate estimate by just reading the label. My point earlier, which Dr. Doolittle repeated, is that somehow consumers believe certain ingredients are better due to image, which scientifically is questionable. 

Functionally, is Pea Protein Concentrate better than Corn Gluten?? The image of a steaming bowl of buttered sweet peas is certainly better than that of corn gluten. The term "gluten" itself has the image of sickness. Functionally, these two ingredients are very similar and in fact don't look that different and are made in a similar manner.

So given a choice, which would the consumer pick?


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## lovemydogsalways (Mar 4, 2012)

Herzo said:


> Yes I would think that it would sense there really is no difference in the price of those 2 bags.


 On petflow it used to be a 44# bag for $74.99. That was what I had ordered not a 40# bag.


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## Dr Dolittle (Aug 2, 2013)

domika said:


> I don't really care if they are "good looking" ingredients, but I don't really know what you mean by that. I don't feel comfortable feeding a meal labeled as "meat meal" so I looked for a named meal, etc. I'm not looking for how many fancy meals can they get in there. I'm looking to see how many times peas/potatoes are actually listed because it gives me a good idea of how much meat is actually in the food. I don't think looking at the ingredient list is a bad thing... how is reading an ingredient label abandoning nutrition?
> 
> Also, I'm curious what foods do you consider to have a list of good looking ingredients?


Hey Domika, I wrote about this in my thread Having Been in the Pet Food Industry for Almost 3 decades but briefly what I mean is the ingredient panel is so manipulated now that it is no longer a valid way to learn what is in a food. It now is simply a tool for marketing people to use to sell you food, their food, at a higher price. Real meat as a 1st ingredient, deboned chicken, etc have all replaced poultry by product meal, or even chicken meal now. Corn has been replaced with sweet potato, Yikes, just about every ingredient has been scrutinized, not on nutritional basis, but on the basis of what will sell! We tell ourselves we have forced the food companies to use better ingredients! I guess it makes us feel empowered and feel good about spending twice as much as we need to, but the food companies are laughing all the way to the bank! I may not agree with the raw folks out there, but at least they aren't getting scammed by the kibble pushers. I look at foods that used poultry by product meal, organ meat from USDA chickens, with healthy low phosphorus and calcium levels, and compare it to new fashion foods using real, free ranged so called human grade chicken and the phosphorus and calcium is twice as high, telling me there's even more bone hair hoof, crap, etc in the food. Because we ignore nutrients, which ultimately is what you are getting in that bag and what you are trusting that food company to do with deliberate balance, we blindly buy foods at insane prices based on ingredients that satisfy our marketing-fed biases and beliefs! LOL! You caught me on a passionate morning so excuse the ranting, but you did ask. Does that make any sense? LOL!


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## Herzo (Feb 5, 2011)

lovemydogsalways said:


> On petflow it used to be a 44# bag for $74.99. That was what I had ordered not a 40# bag.


OK then I am corrected. That would make a bit of a difference.


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## lovemydogsalways (Mar 4, 2012)

Herzo said:


> OK then I am corrected. That would make a bit of a difference.


I sadly think he is phasing out the 44#.


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