# FAN-FREAKING-TASTIC Training video



## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Title says it all!!


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## minnieme (Jul 6, 2011)

Jean Donaldson and Ian Dunbar......gah, my idols!! They forgot Patricia McConnell though.  I might be partial because Minnie and I attend her school, but I think she's probably my favorite dog behaviorist/trainer. Awesome video though!!! Why can't more people think this way??? There was a guy in our beginner obedience class a few months ago who would hit his puppy. He never came back after the first class....I feel so bad for the poor thing... even still.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

I went to her seminar in Denver a few months back...absolutely BRILLIANT woman! She's my favorite too!


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## chowder (Sep 7, 2008)

I loved it!! There was some great stuff in there that everyone who deals with animals should have to hear. 

I want to show it to the idiot animal control officer who gave the lecture to my class. Especially the part where they mention shock collars for barking dogs. He strongly advocated 'bark' collars for dogs that barked all day long and went on about how great they worked and how they recommend them to people when they get barking dog complaints. I had already argued with him once during class so I kept my mouth shut (for a change) but I really wanted to leap up and yell 'but you're not addressing WHY the dog is actually barking all day long', you're just shocking him into submission. 

I guess people actually still believe that as long as the dog stops doing a behavior, he's 'trained'.


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## minnieme (Jul 6, 2011)

DaneMama said:


> I went to her seminar in Denver a few months back...absolutely BRILLIANT woman! She's my favorite too!


Luuuucky! She has had quite a few free events here in Madison, but I'm hoping to get to her seminar in a few weeks!! I think it would be awesome. Lol...that pic is great! She is too cute! And you look pretty ecstatic to be there, as I would be too!


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## hmbutler (Aug 4, 2011)

I'm gonna set a reminder on my phone to watch this video when I get home tonight... no sound on my work computer, so I'm guessing just the picture wont really do me much good haha


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## maplewood (Apr 14, 2011)

DaneMama said:


> I went to her seminar in Denver a few months back...absolutely BRILLIANT woman! She's my favorite too!


Envy!!! She makes me laugh and makes sense at the same time!

Awesome video!


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## jiml (Jun 29, 2010)

shhhh dont tell Ian his wife was seen training w youtubes masterofhounds while ecollars were used.. I have nothing against pos training but dont give me the BS that if any punishment that causes discomfort is used the dog stops offering behaviors. Thats taking worst case abusive training and throwing a blanket over a lot more. 

watch masterofhounds vids are his dogs not offering behaviors? masterofhounds's Channel - YouTube


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## minnieme (Jul 6, 2011)

jiml said:


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I would never want to sabotage the relationship with my dog by using threats, intimidation, or punishment that causes "mere discomfort." (that's bs by the way -- considering how stoic my dog and most dogs are, I could probably beat her into submission with a 2x4 and she would probably only slightly flinch). No one's debating whether that method of training works....it might...and in my opinion it's a lot less reliable because you're working off of fear, not "yay this is a fun game and I get fun treats/toys when I do the right behaviors!" But you're right, it can work. But you're certainly risking a lot of that human/dog relationship when you use fear tactics instead of positive reinforcement.

I have a dog that weighs almost as much as me....and I feel no need to use punishment. I do teach her consequences (neg reinforcement) which is different (i.e., if I keep barking that thing that I want goes away), but under no circumstance do I do anything that causes her any kind of pain or "discomfort." 

Maybe you're okay with sacrificing some of the bond you have with your dog, but I'm not.


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## xchairity_casex (Oct 8, 2011)

there are many many differant types of training available and they all work to some extent but the fact of the matter is that not all types of training works for every dog every dog is differnt. i get people who are have "mixed" opinions on how i personally train dogs im alright with that im not saying my way is the only way or that my way is the "best" way.
i love dogs and i adore dogs and i would never harm a dog or my relationship with my dogs.
i use a comination of posative training and corrections (mainly in using very quick leash jerks)
i dont use the jerks for everything or all the time only for certian cases if the dog is so worked up that its not paying any attention to me,treats or toys i will give a quick firm jerk on the lead to get the dogs attention.
do the dogs i train fear me? absolutly not! do they offer novel behaviors absolutly yes! do the dogs i work with have a good time and act happy when they see me coming always!
like i said to each there own nto all dogs respond to sheer posativeity training Cesar was very much one of them if all i offerd him was treats,praise and toys and playtime he flat out ignored me ALL the time he wanderd off when i would have him off lead,he would refuse to looka t me while we walked on lead,if i called him to come he would stand there and stare at me then turn around if i offerd him a treat for his toy he would run away with the toy i got sick of it the second i showed him i meant what i said was when he started attackign the vaccum cleaner and would even nip at whom ever was vaccuming i put his lead on and gave him a jerk he looked at me i praised him he went for the vaccum again i jerked her looked at me i praised him if while im vaccuming and he starts looking excited i say "UHUH" and he walks over to me all wiggly waggly i praise him he now enjoys ebign praised where as before he didnt is it uncomfortable for him to get a jerk im sure it is is it painful no way! i dont jerk that hard!
dogs nip eachother to control one another all the time thats discomfort does that mean those dogs are fearful of the other dog? nope
also when i give advice or teach others hwo to train a dog i always try to give options if they donot like the idea of useing a firmer approach i tell them how to use a more posative approach. im used to being called an evil wicked person by some but im also used to being called a great miracle worker by others
i never ever ever advocate hitting,kicking,throwing your dog on the ground,shouting or frightening a dog EVER theres never a need for any of those (well unless you sneak up on your dog getting into the trash and you senak up behind them and say "what are you doing!" LOL)


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## Atila (Oct 15, 2011)

I belive that any method that makes handler-dog bond stronger is good. Wether it be clicker training or some other positive reinforcment method - it's GOOD. It makes my dog wanting to train. Jumping around me and expecting me to say: wanna train some today? Negative reinforcement training is by my opinnion not a training. I belive it's good to set that the word 'no' brings negative (is it a jerk, a shake of the neck, is it a short slap on the butt - it doesnt matter, as long as it's short, timed and not abused) so after establishing that 'no'is baaaad, dog is as an oportunist likely to be doing behaviors that get him awarded. 
Altough it's nice to hear in positive reinforcement method that all unwanted behaviors are just ignored and dog will stop doing them since it doesn't get rewarded, for someone that keeps hers dog the way I do it, thats impossible. My dog is off leash in urban city most of the time. He goes sniffing bushes and corners I'm not checking out and will not check out. So, my dog need to know few things 100% and thats: NOT eating off the floor outside (timed punishement for doing so . negative reinforcement), NOT step off the sidewalk onto the road (firm 'no' established in earlier days when dealing with eating garbage), COME BACK when called (positive reinforcement), STOP when said so (positive reinforcement).

I want to say, that it's great to use positive method training when doing obedience, agility even protection training, but in some life situations you just have to use some negative. The secret is how to balance both for best for your dog.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

It's been proven time and time again that dogs that are trained 100% from day one with positive methods and shaping techniques learn faster, have better retention and are always eager to offer new behaviors when learned something new. People who are skeptics of positive based methods have probably never been properly trained themselves how to do these techniques. I used to be skeptical of 100% positive based methods and my own dogs show me the proof I need. My two youngest dogs were trained this way and they're by far my fastest, best retained dogs I own. When I ask for a sit their butt can't hit the ground fast enough. When I call them they can't flip around fast enough to get to me.

Dogs that have been punished have to think about the consequences of their actions and have to brace themselves for a possible negative outcome when learning something new. They are slow to pick up on new things because of this. The box game (a game where a dog has to learn what you want without you giving them any cues or language- the dog has to figure it out on their own by only being rewarded for the right moves but no reward for the wrong moves) would take ages for a dog raised on punitive methods....but a "shaped" dog picks up the concept of this game very quickly!


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