# Pearly Whites



## _unoriginal (Apr 8, 2012)

Bentley's been on PMR for about 9 1/2 months. He gets plenty of bone-in cuts and well as his antler chews. The problem is, I'm just not seeing a difference in his teeth. He's got build-up on his canines. It's pretty much always been there. I don't know if there's something I'm not doing that I should be or what's going on..

He's going to the vet in a couple weeks for his annual check-up with blood panel and all that and I'll be telling the vet that he's on a raw diet but I feel like we're missing one of the major benefits here..


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## shellbell (Sep 24, 2011)

I read Tom Lonsdale’s book Raw Meaty Bones, and he mentions that since dogs use their canines when they are actually killing prey, and not so much when they are just eating it, that raw fed dogs can still have build-up on their canines. He actually recommends cleaning the canines by just wiping them with a damp cloth a few times a week. But with that build-up, I don’t think a damp cloth would cut it. Maybe try using PetzLife Oral Gel? I use it on my dogs teeth a few times a week when I remember, it is what I used for keeping their teeth clean before I switched to raw. See if that helps, otherwise maybe he would need a professional to clean them….


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## _unoriginal (Apr 8, 2012)

Thanks! Totally not the answer I wanted but I appreciate it :lol: I wish it was more like "well feed this and it'll help" :lol:


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## pogo (Aug 28, 2011)

Do you ever feed ribs? like a few ribs together, they tend to be the best bone for scraping the canines


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## _unoriginal (Apr 8, 2012)

pogo said:


> Do you ever feed ribs? like a few ribs together, they tend to be the best bone for scraping the canines


I give beef ribs and pork ribs, on occasion, when I find them at a good price.


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## sozzle (May 18, 2011)

I have the same problem with Stanley's teeth so you are not alone. I was given an unusual looking venison bone not long ago, I think it was a bit of the spine with other bones attached and I must admit after eating that in the complicated shape it was he did manage to scrape a bit of the tartar off. I think it just depends on how they use their teeth to get to the bone. Greyhounds are notorious for not having good teeth anyway so I've kind of accepted it as my lot even though his back teeth look really good.
I think brushing a dog's teeth is such an odd thing to do even though I have started to - can't see it has made any difference so far.
Other raw feeders here seem to have so much better results than I do but then I didn't get my dog until he was 5.
I'll be watching this thread with interest.


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

I would feed LARGE frozen pieces. Like whole or half carcasses, deer legs, beef, pig, heads, big spine...stuff like that.

My dogs only use their canines when they are pull meat off of really big pieces.


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## _unoriginal (Apr 8, 2012)

sozzle said:


> I have the same problem with Stanley's teeth so you are not alone. I was given an unusual looking venison bone not long ago, I think it was a bit of the spine with other bones attached and I must admit after eating that in the complicated shape it was he did manage to scrape a bit of the tartar off. I think it just depends on how they use their teeth to get to the bone. Greyhounds are notorious for not having good teeth anyway so I've kind of accepted it as my lot even though his back teeth look really good.
> I think brushing a dog's teeth is such an odd thing to do even though I have started to - can't see it has made any difference so far.
> Other raw feeders here seem to have so much better results than I do but then I didn't get my dog until he was 5.
> I'll be watching this thread with interest.


I'm so glad to know I'm not alone! I also feed whole pork necks and soup bones (mostly as RMBs)..It's just not working. What do you use to brush the teeth with? I feel like I'd only want to use vinegar or something rather than doggie toothpaste with a bunch of chemicals..

I also got my dog when he was almost 4 so he already had the build-up, I believe. My brother's Golden who has been eating raw for... 4 months (?) has super white, great-looking teeth.. But his dog is a lot younger than mine and maybe his tartar wasn't built-up yet?

I donno, coming up with theories I guess..


Sprocket said:


> I would feed LARGE frozen pieces. Like whole or half carcasses, deer legs, beef, pig, heads, big spine...stuff like that.
> 
> My dogs only use their canines when they are pull meat off of really big pieces.


Unfortunately, I don't have the luxury of feeding anything bigger than a chicken.  I wish I did though. How do their canines look?


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## BeagleCountry (Jan 20, 2012)

It may be best to have a dental. Then, keep the teeth clean with a gauze pad several times per week. If trying to work with dirty teeth I'd suggest PlaqClnz rather than PetzLife. PlaqClnz is based on zinc. It has no grain alcohol and is tasteless. Warm it in your pocket 30 minutes before using to avoid cold liquid on the teeth. It is intended for groomers. (I am not a groomer.) The irrigation system is not needed. It seems to work best when applied one hour before giving a meaty bone or before bedtime with no water to remove it from the teeth. Grapefruit seed extract (GSE) also works. GSE is very bitter and should not be used full strength. If using Petrodex toothpaste, 4 out of 5 of our rescues prefer the chemical laden poultry flavor to the natural peanut butter flavor.

Back in the days when cow hooves were one of the few natural parts available 2 of my dogs broke front teeth while chewing them. Cow hooves are cooked and can break off as hard, sharp slivers. They preferred the Nylabone dinosaur shape that has the head turned backward (don't know dinosaurs) after it had gone through the riding mower blades by accident. No idea why the ones with the slice out of the side were better.

PlaqClnz can be purchased from amazon or ebay.

ETA: After using PetzLife or PlaqClnz regularly for a couple of weeks you can use your fingernail or a dental scraper to remove a lot of the softened plaque and tarter. I prefer my fingernail as it will not scratch the dental enamel like a metal tool that is not used carefully.


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

_unoriginal said:


> Unfortunately, I don't have the luxury of feeding anything bigger than a chicken.  I wish I did though. How do their canines look?



If you feed it frozen it will probably help 

My dogs canines look great!

Just took some shots for ya. They frequently get large pieces that may or may not be frozen.

Mikey, he is 9.5 years old



























Gunners are still pearly white because he is only 1.5 years old.


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## NZ Raw (Sep 14, 2011)

Tank has nice white teeth, I think he keeps his clean by playing with his favorite toy, he hits it like prey.

(and just since I have a ton of random pics lol)

085 by http://www.flickr.com/people/[email protected]/, on Flickr

Unfortunately his rough play has taken off a chunk of enamel on his left tooth, more than likely that was from playing tug idk.


040 by http://www.flickr.com/people/[email protected]/, on Flickr

This is just a theory of mine. We had a 16 year old cat that had teeth of a 2 year old and we can only put that down to his life long habit of sinking his teeth through cardboard boxes. He was not even raw feed.


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## _unoriginal (Apr 8, 2012)

Seriously jealous of all these super white teeth


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

_unoriginal said:


> Seriously jealous of all these super white teeth


Mikeys aren't super white, there is staining. His teeth look DARN good for his age IMO. 

If I were you, I would get a dental and start "fresh". If you can't get the type of parts that will help the teeth, then you will likely need to get at least yearly dentals. Frozen foods will help though. What is the largest piece you can get?

Gunners teeth. I LOVE his gums. They are like the perfect color IMO.


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## sozzle (May 18, 2011)

Sprocket said:


> I would feed LARGE frozen pieces. Like whole or half carcasses, deer legs, beef, pig, heads, big spine...stuff like that.
> 
> My dogs only use their canines when they are pull meat off of really big pieces.


So basically you are saying, 'size does matter'?????


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## Elliehanna (Jan 16, 2012)

here is Goren's








he will be 4 in December, he gets most of his food frozen and he is not a recreational chewer so the only chewing he does is what I feed him, the only stuff I give him thawed is the ground stuff (which right now is deer and that is it since it was free)


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

sozzle said:


> So basically you are saying, 'size does matter'?????


Well...yes I believe it does. The large pieces allow the dog to hold it down and pull with their canines or saw off large pieces using their whole mouth. I'm not talking HUGE whole carcasses, but something other than a chicken quarter. Although a frozen quarter is wonderful  

I think these photos can illustrate my point. 

Of course I can't find any photos I wanted to find but you can clearly see them using their canines.


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## _unoriginal (Apr 8, 2012)

No these pics are great. I can see the way they're eating. I think part of my problem here might be that I feed everything thawed. I was under the impression that thawed is better for them as the frozen stuff can shock their system because it's so cold? Clearly not, huh? I'll have to give the frozen stuff a shot. Still not going to have much in the way of big pieces like that. I wish I had access to/room for big carcasses or cuts like you have!


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## Elliehanna (Jan 16, 2012)

you might ask a local butcher if you can buy a head (pig/cow) and give it that day however it comes, I have one sitting in my freezer waiting for the 30 degree days so I can just let him gorge on it for a few days rather than having to pick it back up


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

_unoriginal said:


> No these pics are great. I can see the way they're eating. I think part of my problem here might be that I feed everything thawed. I was under the impression that thawed is better for them as the frozen stuff can shock their system because it's so cold? Clearly not, huh? I'll have to give the frozen stuff a shot. Still not going to have much in the way of big pieces like that. I wish I had access to/room for big carcasses or cuts like you have!


I wouldn't feed them frozen all the time but I give them rec meals (which are usually frozen legs, ribs, spine) about once a week.


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## _unoriginal (Apr 8, 2012)

Sprocket said:


> I wouldn't feed them frozen all the time but I give them rec meals (which are usually frozen legs, ribs, spine) about once a week.


I fed some frozen beef ribs a couple days ago. I think it made a difference. I still will have to plan my bone-in frozen meals but I'm paying more attention now. Thanks for your help


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## mheath0429 (Sep 8, 2012)

This may sound.odd but could you feed a turkey? You could even use a meat cleaver and halve it. I would. Say gorge once a week with half a turkey then fast. See how that works after a month. I have a hard time finding heads and large cuts but its easy to find turkey!


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## sozzle (May 18, 2011)

You're so lucky, we can generally only get turkeys at Christmas and they are really expensive like NZ$60 each! I can't get necks even though I emailed a turkey producer a few months ago (never got a reply).

A shame moas in New Zealand are extinct, that would go a long long long way!!!!:heh:


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## _unoriginal (Apr 8, 2012)

mheath0429 said:


> This may sound.odd but could you feed a turkey? You could even use a meat cleaver and halve it. I would. Say gorge once a week with half a turkey then fast. See how that works after a month. I have a hard time finding heads and large cuts but its easy to find turkey!


I actually can find pig heads at one of the stores here but they're like $3-4/#. Totally ridiculous IMO. I can't justify the money :lol:


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## mheath0429 (Sep 8, 2012)

Put up an ad on craigslist for deer meat from hunters.


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## _unoriginal (Apr 8, 2012)

It's not finding meat that's the problem, especially venison right now.. It's having the room. I have NO room right now. Plus I still have 20# or so from a score a couple months ago that are taking up part of my brother's freezer. :lol: I have more meat that I know what to do with right now.


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## _unoriginal (Apr 8, 2012)

Update:

We went to the vet a couple weeks ago for annual check-up and bloodwork. I'm a chicken and didn't tell my vet that I feed raw. 

But... He did make a point to ask if B let me brush his teeth because they're very white and his gums are very pink and healthy. He said B had a bit of build-up on his canines but overall his teeth look fantastic. I have begun to give meals a bit more frozen so he can really woke the crap off those teeth and it has been helping a ton. 

And yes, I know I need to grow a spine. First vet visit since switching to raw. I was more nervous than the dog. :lol:


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## Unosmom (May 3, 2009)

you can easily remove most of the buildup with a dental scaler like this one Amazon.com: Joy Pet 6-1/2-Inch Double Headed Tarter Remover/Scraper, Stainless: Pet Supplies

especially if it's in that hardened stage, it comes off in one chunk.


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## Rplangford (Feb 22, 2013)

mheath0429 said:


> Put up an ad on craigslist for deer meat from hunters.


Can you give me an example of what to say in a Craigslist ad, and where would you post it? 
Thanks so much.


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