# Not sure how to manage this



## JLeigh (Jul 15, 2012)

Alice gets along well with other dogs with the exception of two situations. One is resource guarding. The other is becoming too aggressive if she's pushed beyond her limits being chased, nipped at, etc. She does not show resource guarding with people, just dogs. Since we are a one-dog household, I don't have the slightest idea how to work with her on the resource guarding. The other situation happened tonight. Two dogs at the park were engaging in some bullying behavior. She took it for awhile and then went after one of them. No blood was drawn but she sounded and acted ferocious. I removed her from the situation, but we ran into them again later. They were fine for about 3 minutes, and then Alice had enough again. This time she pinned the other dog. She has not done this before. Obviously the whole thing is my fault because I shouldn't have allowed a second opportunity to happen. Afterwards, Alice walked up to the other dog wagging her tail. I frankly don't know how to work with her on this. Is this something I CAN work on? Or is it something I need to accept and therefore be on guard about at all times? I can understand her giving the dog a warning growl or bark if she's reached her limits, but she doesn't stop there. While she's not drawing blood, she acts pretty scary. Any advice? She's one year old, if that helps any. Thank you!

I'd like to add that I find dog-ownership very overwhelming at times! Mostly because I feel completely inept. *sigh*


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## losul (Oct 13, 2012)

Does Alice happen to be an Olde English Bulldogge?


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## Tracy (Aug 11, 2012)

Our old Bullmastiff was like this most of his life. I could never really trust him with dogs we didn't know. He never bit either, just pinned and made awful noises. I had an incident a few years ago where a jogger and his retriever was running towards us. I shouted to the guy to stop running for a second, so I could put Mav on lead. Of course he didn't and invaded our personal space. Mav was very unhappy at this, as when both dogs met, there was a lot of posturing. Within 10 seconds there was a fight and both dogs rolled down a banking. I started running, but the guy was down the banking before me. When both dogs came up, Mav was limping and bleeding, the guy was furious and swearing at me, and his dog was fine. I appologised and tried to explain that if he had stopped when I asked him, this would never have happened. Anyway, he kept shouting and swearing at me and said he should have killed my dog, as it was so aggressive. 
I've been scarred for years by this incident. Mav was never allowed to run loose with dogs he didn't know, and I was always careful where I let him off lead.
He was great with dogs who would mind their own business and offered no threat to him.
Every dog is different though, I probably limited Mav, simply because of my feelings. I used to panic whenever I saw a dog off lead, in case it came over to us. We lost Mav in May this year to bone cancer and it's safe to say, he's taught me more in his short life about dog behaviour than all dogs I've ever had over the years. I did do lots of things to help Mav cope with being around other dogs, such as clicker training, TTouch, avoiding loose dogs as much as we could, this reduced his stress levels enough in order to train him. I understand how you feel. It's very stressful owning a dog you don't feel you have control over. I made very good progress with Mav in the end, although I never allowed him to run with dogs he didn't know or even dogs who I knew could cause a problem for him. 
Good luck.


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## Tracy (Aug 11, 2012)

I forgot to mention, Mav was also resource guarder with other dogs too, never with us.
Also I forgot to mention that the reason he was limping was that this guy had kicked him on the leg to get him off his dog. It's something I'll never allow to happen to one of my dogs ever again.


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## GoingPostal (Sep 5, 2011)

I'm confused, your dog was getting bullied and pushed beyond her limits and lashed out causing absolutely no damage, but you want to know what's wrong with her? Doesn't seem to me like the dog is to blame at all.


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## JLeigh (Jul 15, 2012)

GoingPostal said:


> I'm confused, your dog was getting bullied and pushed beyond her limits and lashed out causing absolutely no damage, but you want to know what's wrong with her? Doesn't seem to me like the dog is to blame at all.


I didn't say something was wrong with her. She was indeed being bullied. Ultimately, the fault was mine the second time around. I wanted to know if there is a way I can train her to not react so aggressively if this happens again. The thing is, even after the other dog was trying to get away, Alice was still going after her. I think that's what bothered me the most. 


She's not an English Bulldog. She's a GSP/Redbone mix.


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## losul (Oct 13, 2012)

JLeigh said:


> She's not an English Bulldog. She's a GSP/Redbone mix.


I asked because my dog and I had a very similar experience at the dog park involving an Olde English Bulldogge. Olde English Bulldogge is an attempt to recreate the extinct Old English Bulldog. Notice the difference in spelling. Olde English Bulldogge is 1/2 English bullog with the other half being comprised of bullmastiff, pitbull, and American bulldog.

Anyway, i'm out of time right now, will explain my experience later.


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

Dog parks are the problem.....Don't like them and don't use them...Find another way to exercise your dog, go for runs on deserted logging roads or find large open spaces that aren't a dog park.


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## JLeigh (Jul 15, 2012)

whiteleo said:


> Dog parks are the problem.....Don't like them and don't use them...Find another way to exercise your dog, go for runs on deserted logging roads or find large open spaces that aren't a dog park.


If I had another option I would take advantage of it, believe me. I have searched high and low. I found a couple of other off-the-grid areas that are not dog parks (therefore off-leash is illegal) and other people use them for exercising their dogs as well. So, that puts me in the same situation I'm in now. This park isn't crowded at all and it's not difficult to keep away from other dogs, but obviously there is always a risk. My dog has incredibly high exercise needs. I've never seen a dog run like she does, and for the distance she does. It's like watching a greyhound race. People who see her run are always asking if she's part greyhound. I have to let her run around for almost 2 hours a day to keep her content. I realize that there isn't any way to train her not to fight back. *I* have to keep tight control of her so that she doesn't GET into those situations. The onus is on me to protect her, so that's what I need to do. She has a darn good recall, though, so that helps. 

We went today (I don't know if you've read my other posts on this particular park, but it's 10 acres) and I kept tight control of her and we went to the quietest area of the park there. She got a good 1 1/2 hours of running, no issues with other dogs, barely any dogs around, and she's a happy camper. 

Oh well. If nothing else, I'm learning. And this dog sure has gotten me off my a**. No more resting after work. :wacko:


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## xchairity_casex (Oct 8, 2011)

No more resting after work"
now thats a silly idea where in the world did you assume that?
you own a dog, theres no such thing as resting, not untill they are and especielly not after a long hard day at work.
YOUR there entertainment, thats the job you take on when you bring home a dog, you rest ONLy when they are, you relax only when they are and you only sleep when they are.

i dont see anything wrong with dog parks, while this is not somthing htat needs to be 'fixed" you do need to learn a few things
like number 1, from now on you NEED to pay extremly close attention to not only your dog around other dogs ,but also all the other dogs!
its YOUR job to stop interactions with other dogs BEFORE it escalates, YOU need to see when your dog is becoming overwelmed and break up the interaction BEFORE she feels the need to snap or growl, or bark or raise her hackles.
i live in a household with 3 dogs, Cesar my male who is pushy towards other dogs when he plays, and most other dogs do not like it, it makes them feel uncomfortible, he mounts them,climbs onto there backs, gets into there faces, spins around them, head butts them and is general a pest sometimes when he really gets going. its MY job to not only stop him but to stop him before another dog becomes annoyed or botherd by it, alot of times other dogs who enjoy it for a little while will just say 'enough" with a simple turn of the head or stffening of the body or by trying to move away from him, he doesnt get it, but I do when i see behaviors like that i step in and the game ends untill the other dog inciates the game again, if either dog wants to stop and one dog doesnt get it, i will again stop the game.
if i didnt do this, Cesar could easily start a fight or a fear bite from another dog, hes not aggressive, nor is the other dog thats why its MY JOB as the owner to pay close attention and to have a plan.

another dog is Sadie, shes 4 and she reacts to other dogs moving in the other room, its too much for her if she hears Cesar playing too loudly with a toy she runs in to attack him, so i correct her and send her to a speciel place to lie down and chill out i do this about a million times per day, sure i could lock her away, but i dont think thats going ot help her self control.

when you have your dog out in public its YOUR job to pay attention, you cant zone or or talk to other dog owners, especielly with YOUR dog, its our job as responsible owners.

so, your job is to learn all about doggy body langue, watch some youtube videos on specific behaviors, have a look at "avoidence" behaviors, THOSE are the signals YOUR dog has been useing towards other dogs for a long time that went unnoticed.
turning of the head and/or body, stiffening, pulling ears back, ect

if you see ANY of those behaviors in your dog when another dog is around, step in and shoo the other dog off, even if you need to carry a squirt bottle of water to help you, or a walking stick to just block the other dogs and make it back up away, you dont have to be mean, the other dog doesnt understand, hes not trying to be mean, but you do need to show it 'hey, you need to go along somewhere else now"
i will personally just use my own body to block because its easier for me and most dogs 'get' what i mean, plus Cesar knows what im doing and will not go around me or get into my way of what im doing.

so #1. learn to spot avoidence behaviors in your own dog and stop interactions BEFORE she feels the need to react, before her level of tolorance is pushed. shes not trying to be mean to other dogs shes jsut trying to get it across 'i dont like this, leave me alone" if you dont send the other dog away, you cannot blame her for dealing with it in her own way, the only way she knows how-biteing

#2. if you walk into the dog park and notice right off a dog or a few dogs you dont want your dog involved with, as in you think "oh theres going to be trouble i hope they stay away from us" be proactive, dont jsut allow them to run up to you or your dog! block them, make them get back! make them get the hint that "hey, this is our space, go away"

#3. if you even start to 'feel" like an interaction is not going to end well, just end it dont question the feeling, just end it, walk away take your dog in another direction. but dont be nervous either, if your like "OMG!!!!!" everytime a dog appraoches, you wont be helping anyone, including yourself. chill out, be confedent in your own feels and observations.

and by doing this youll be doing 2 things
#1. your dog will learn to tolorate just a little bit more because she knows that 'hey, i dont have to deal with this, my owner will" your giving her the reason to trust that YOUR going to deal with the situation, so she will give you a bit more time TO deal with, but obviously this is only AFTER youve been doing this for sometime, it took Cesar a few months before he learned to stay behind me while i sent off another dog and not get into my way, in the begining he would go after the other dog like "oh hey come back! ignore her! i wanna play!"

#2.you will stop it before it becomes a serious bite or a serious atack meaning no law suits, no dangerous dog label, no getting kicked out of the park, ect.


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## JLeigh (Jul 15, 2012)

xchairity_casex said:


> No more resting after work"
> now thats a silly idea where in the world did you assume that?
> you own a dog, theres no such thing as resting, not untill they are and especielly not after a long hard day at work.
> YOUR there entertainment, thats the job you take on when you bring home a dog, you rest ONLy when they are, you relax only when they are and you only sleep when they are.


Unless you are teasing, you lost me with the above and I'm going to back out of this thread. I'm sorry I started it.


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## xchairity_casex (Oct 8, 2011)

i was not trying to tease or be mean, i appoligize if it seemed so, its just the facts of owning a dog, they all take work they all take alot of work, old ones,young ones, calm ones and hyper ones.
its something that alot of people (myself included) can sometimes become wrapped in, when we become wrapped up in the thought that we DESERVE a break and our dogs should respect that. but its very unfair of us as humans to belive, when we honestly feel that way we are setting ourselves up to become angry at our dogs, i have done it myself when i get sick or feel too tierd after a long day
"GRR! its not fair Cesar! im too tierd to go for a walk! go lie down! why are you being like this!"
we are only setting ourselves to become annoyed with our dogs for thinking this way, but we are simply humans, we all have feelings like this, its our nature as living beings to think abour ourselves and our own comfort, if we didnt we would all die, its the bodys way of taking care of ourselves.

but instead of thinking "uh! cant i JUST sit down for a minute?!"
we should be thinking
"i know im tierd, but youve been bored all day you need me to be proactive right now"

when we change that thought we are not as likly to become angry with our dogs or annoyed for that matter, because all it takes is that "mood" before you go for a walk begrudgingly 
"ugh!! FINE! we will go for a walk even though my legs are sore, my feet hurt, and in hungry! fine ill take you for a walk! you annoying dog!"
you may find yourself subconsciencly stomping as you walk,grumbling to yourself,annoyingly telling your dog to 'hurry it up already" so you can get the walk over with and hurry home.
your left feeling anoyed while your dog is left feeling unfufilled,confused and upset.

i really wasnt trying to be mean or harsh, i felt sorry that no one had given you any real world advice and wanted to help


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## Tracy (Aug 11, 2012)

I'm not a keen lover of dog parks either, simply because you never know what the other dog will do. In my experience, many dogs who frequent dog parks, lack manners and social skills. My collie is not very tolerant of rude dogs and would very much stick up for himself if pushed. However, he does love to play retrieve with me, so I can take him into a dog park and he's completely fine around any other dogs and their rude behaviour. He completely ignores the other dogs and can outrun most of them anyway. They leave him be because he's no fun.
My husband was badly bitten on his leg trying to 'block' another dog from getting to Mav, so I'm not a fan of sticking myself between my dog and a dog I don't know. I think if you have a dog who is confident around dogs in general, then it can be easier to manage their behaviour. When you have a dog who lacks confidence with other dogs, then it can become very difficult to say the least. This was Mav's problem. He got in first, so they couldn't get him. 
To be constructive though, if Alice was into toys, you may be able to distract her from the other dogs, like I do with Codie and Demi. I allow them to greet the other dog if they want, but only briefly, then I move off with the toy and they come with me to get it. If the other dog pursues them, I keep hold of the toy and tell the owner to get their dog. Mine are fixed on the toy, so don't really bother too much with the other dog. If I were to put them on leads, then they would definately tell the other dog off. This works best for me, you could try a few things and see what works best for you and Alice. Does she like toys?


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## JLeigh (Jul 15, 2012)

xchairity_casex said:


> i was not trying to tease or be mean, i appoligize if it seemed so, its just the facts of owning a dog, they all take work they all take alot of work, old ones,young ones, calm ones and hyper ones.
> its something that alot of people (myself included) can sometimes become wrapped in, when we become wrapped up in the thought that we DESERVE a break and our dogs should respect that. but its very unfair of us as humans to belive, when we honestly feel that way we are setting ourselves up to become angry at our dogs, i have done it myself when i get sick or feel too tierd after a long day
> "GRR! its not fair Cesar! im too tierd to go for a walk! go lie down! why are you being like this!"
> we are only setting ourselves to become annoyed with our dogs for thinking this way, but we are simply humans, we all have feelings like this, its our nature as living beings to think abour ourselves and our own comfort, if we didnt we would all die, its the bodys way of taking care of ourselves.
> ...


Thanks for the reply.  I understand better now where you were coming from. 



Tracy said:


> I'm not a keen lover of dog parks either, simply because you never know what the other dog will do. In my experience, many dogs who frequent dog parks, lack manners and social skills. My collie is not very tolerant of rude dogs and would very much stick up for himself if pushed. However, he does love to play retrieve with me, so I can take him into a dog park and he's completely fine around any other dogs and their rude behaviour. He completely ignores the other dogs and can outrun most of them anyway. They leave him be because he's no fun.
> My husband was badly bitten on his leg trying to 'block' another dog from getting to Mav, so I'm not a fan of sticking myself between my dog and a dog I don't know. I think if you have a dog who is confident around dogs in general, then it can be easier to manage their behaviour. When you have a dog who lacks confidence with other dogs, then it can become very difficult to say the least. This was Mav's problem. He got in first, so they couldn't get him.
> To be constructive though, if Alice was into toys, you may be able to distract her from the other dogs, like I do with Codie and Demi. I allow them to greet the other dog if they want, but only briefly, then I move off with the toy and they come with me to get it. If the other dog pursues them, I keep hold of the toy and tell the owner to get their dog. Mine are fixed on the toy, so don't really bother too much with the other dog. If I were to put them on leads, then they would definately tell the other dog off. This works best for me, you could try a few things and see what works best for you and Alice. Does she like toys?


The problem with bringing a toy to the park is her resource guarding issue. If another dog tries to take it away or play with *her* toy, I worry that there's going to be some trouble, so I have avoided doing that. She only likes to play with other dogs if they're willing to engage in a rousing game of chase. Sometimes she'll find a stray ball and grab it in the hopes that she will be chased. She usually is, and she has always been able to outrun them all. lol. Her favorite thing to do there, though, is tear through the grassy field areas hunting for squirrels, chipmunks, and mice. She really can take or leave other dogs. Running and hunting critters are her true loves. Hmmm. It just dawned on me that a small flirt pole might be just the ticket. I'm SURE she would love a flirt pole because she has a very, very high prey drive, so I could bring that to the park to get her attention with, and because it's on a line I could keep other dogs from getting it. I think I'll try that unless someone here thinks it's a bad idea?

Yes, the issue she had had are due to rude dogs and owners who think it's "cute" or are not watching their dogs. I have my eyes on Alice practically every single second. I do not stand around chatting with other people being oblivious to my dog. I've even had people tell me to "relax". But those are the first people who will get mad if Alice upsets their rude dog. If she IS playing hard with another dog, I *always* ask the owner if that's okay, or would they like me to pull Alice away. The incident that prompted me to start this thread was an 11 mo puppy body-slamming Alice (along with another dog --tag-teaming). When she inevitably fought back, the owner actually said "well, I don't like it that she's so aggressive about it". I just gave her a blank stare. Another owner piped up that Alice was being pushed around, thankfully. 

Anyway, I'm going to chalk this up to yet another learning experience on my journey with Alice, and keep moving forward. Thank you for all the replies and advice!


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## Tracy (Aug 11, 2012)

I get what you're saying about the toy thing. I too keep hold of the ball when there's other dogs around, just to be on the safe side. 
My Ridgeback played very rough with other dogs when he was young. I never found it acceptable behaviour, even although other Ridgeback owners said this is how they play. I worked very hard on clicker training calmer behaviour around dogs. I was lucky to meet up with regular people at the park and I worked with Tyler on a long line. I stopped him when he got a little rough and rewarded him for behaving calmly. Tyler was very confident around other dogs, still is. 
My Bullmastiff was very shy and was worried by hyper dogs. He could never cope with them in his face, so this is something we had to try and avoid all of his short life. 
It would be good if you could meet up with people with dogs who have manners and like to hang around with other dogs. This would give Alice a chance to learn appropriate canine signals. When you go to the park for a run, then the distraction thing would be something I would try, so she dosen't have to engage with the out of control dogs.


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## Tracy (Aug 11, 2012)

Just had a thought. You'll just need to watch your toy isn't too exciting, in case all the other dogs end up chasing you round the park to get it.:tongue1:
I once had a lady tell me off for having treats whilst I was out training my dogs. My dogs were walking with me and her dogs were following us. She couldn't get them back. I have to say I wasn't feeding them when her dogs were following. They were trying to get in my pockets. I'm surprised Demi didn't have a go.
She bellowed up the park, "Do you have biscuits, that's why my dogs are not coming back to me".
My reply was, "Really, maybe if you did have something to reward them with, they wouldn't be following strangers around the park".


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## JLeigh (Jul 15, 2012)

Tracy said:


> I get what you're saying about the toy thing. I too keep hold of the ball when there's other dogs around, just to be on the safe side.
> My Ridgeback played very rough with other dogs when he was young. I never found it acceptable behaviour, even although other Ridgeback owners said this is how they play. I worked very hard on clicker training calmer behaviour around dogs. I was lucky to meet up with regular people at the park and I worked with Tyler on a long line. I stopped him when he got a little rough and rewarded him for behaving calmly. Tyler was very confident around other dogs, still is.
> My Bullmastiff was very shy and was worried by hyper dogs. He could never cope with them in his face, so this is something we had to try and avoid all of his short life.
> It would be good if you could meet up with people with dogs who have manners and like to hang around with other dogs. This would give Alice a chance to learn appropriate canine signals. When you go to the park for a run, then the distraction thing would be something I would try, so she dosen't have to engage with the out of control dogs.


Unfortunately, I know only 2 people in real life with dogs. My parents have two collies, and the male is VERY dog aggressive. The other person I know lives an hour away. 



Tracy said:


> Just had a thought. You'll just need to watch your toy isn't too exciting, in case all the other dogs end up chasing you round the park to get it.:tongue1:
> I once had a lady tell me off for having treats whilst I was out training my dogs. My dogs were walking with me and her dogs were following us. She couldn't get them back. I have to say I wasn't feeding them when her dogs were following. They were trying to get in my pockets. I'm surprised Demi didn't have a go.
> She bellowed up the park, "Do you have biscuits, that's why my dogs are not coming back to me".
> My reply was, "Really, maybe if you did have something to reward them with, they wouldn't be following strangers around the park".


Oh man, that's a good point! LOL. I'll have to think on this a bit then.


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## Celt (Dec 27, 2010)

I have 2 italian greyg
hounds which might make a difference in how people respond to what I say when I explain why "his highness" Blaise's "aggressive" behavior isn't aggression. I bring up the fact that if a total stranger came up to them, grabed them and then proceeded to hug and kiss them, that their reaction would quite likely appear a bit forceful, seeing as how they'd push the overly friendly person away, probably while yelling at the "rude/crazy" person. Which is exactly what Blaise was doing to their too "friendly" dog. I must admit that if I see a dog that's a bit too "pushy" that I will step between them and my pups before they get too close, whenever I can, and if I'm too far, call the boys too me, then block.


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## Milburn (Jan 5, 2013)

Your dog was getting harassed and pressed beyond her boundaries and lashed out resulting in definitely no harm, but you want to know what's incorrect with her? Doesn't seem to me like the dog is responsible at all.


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