# how important are organs?



## xchairity_casex (Oct 8, 2011)

i am wondering how important it is to feed the organs like liver and heart cesar still seems to have a sensativity to the organs so i dont feed organs every day and when i do its in small amounts


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

i think you cannot skip the organs. 

what kind of sensitivity?

Why Organ Meat Is Important For The Raw Fed Dog


> ompared to regular cuts of muscle meat, organ meats are more densely packed with just about every nutrient, including heavy doses of B vitamins such as: B1, B2, B6, folic acid and vitamin B12.
> 
> Organ meats are also loaded with minerals like phosphorus, iron, copper, magnesium and iodine, and provide the important fat-soluble vitamins A, D, E and K. It is important to note that animals raised outside on grass contain even higher levels of these essential nutrients than their grain-fed counterparts.
> 
> Try all of the organ meats, including lung, kidney, pancreas – anything you can get your hands on! Here is a look at the benefits of the most common organ meats: liver and heart.


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## Donna Little (May 31, 2011)

xellil said:


> i think you cannot skip the organs.
> 
> what kind of sensitivity?
> 
> Why Organ Meat Is Important For The Raw Fed Dog


This article is obviously considering heart an organ meat so would that be good enough for the most part? I struggle with this too because most of my guys get the runs every time I give any organ meat. Now, they have no problem with heart and that's what I feed as their main source of red meat. I made up about 2 weeks worth of food a couple of weeks ago and put liver in about half the meals. A TINY bit because it always causes a problem. I just went in the back room a while ago to find a pile of sludge. And of course that was the reason Madison had her blow out the other day. I can say with certainty none of us enjoy that....


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

donna, your dogs are so little, that a teeny tiny thumb nail size of liver every other day would be enough for them....

heart is simply not an organ. it's a highly vascular muscle....but does not take the place of liver and kidney, spleen, thymus, brain, pancreas.


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## Donna Little (May 31, 2011)

magicre said:


> donna, your dogs are so little, that a teeny tiny thumb nail size of liver every other day would be enough for them....
> 
> heart is simply not an organ. it's a highly vascular muscle....but does not take the place of liver and kidney, spleen, thymus, brain, pancreas.


I have yet to even be able to give them that size piece without diarrhea. Now little Nat can handle it with no problem but everyone else... 
They've all been on raw now for about 9-10 months and we've done very little organ. I'm giving my best shot but every time I add it back in I dread the outcome. (Pun intended.) And when you have 8 or 9 dogs with cannonbutt.... I need to run away from home is what I'm tryin' to say. :wink:


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

No, I know blowouts are no fun! I don't think heart is really an organ meat, though, because it doesn't secrete (or something like that). I wish I knew why some dogs just have a hard time with organs.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

I wonder if you could try something not so rich, like kidney, and work up from there?

I know what works best for Snorkels is liver and then spleen (which would be the worst for your dogs) Pancreas and kidney don't seem nearly so rich

Have you tried chicken liver?


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

heart isn't an organ meat.

at this point, i'd consider a supplement.....bertes blends might be what you are looking for....

you can find it at Dog nutrition for arthritis, joint, cancer, heart, kidney, bladder, liver, reproductive system, senior care, stress, anxiety, yeast, and fungal. Fish oil, essential fatty acids, EFA, green foods, kelp, herbs, herbal formulas, immune support, vitamins

take a look at her products....she does breed ethically and raises rotties and her products, i've found are pretty good.


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## Donna Little (May 31, 2011)

xellil said:


> I wonder if you could try something not so rich, like kidney, and work up from there?
> 
> I know what works best for Snorkels is liver and then spleen (which would be the worst for your dogs) Pancreas and kidney don't seem nearly so rich
> 
> Have you tried chicken liver?


Kidney was the first organ I tried and OMG, my Min Pins both exploded. (Notice how I don't count Nat in with the Min Pins. She's so tiny I call her my "make-a-Min Pin.") 
Chicken liver seems to give the least problems but will still cause runny poop. Which doesn't matter to me that it's not full blown diarrhea, when my dogs can't hold it and it comes out in the house, I don't enjoy it. Now when they've gotten a little organ meat stuck to some chicken back they tend to be able to deal with that the best. Gotta have a lot of bone with it. I know there was a little organ in with one of their meals from a couple of days ago and everyone other than Nat has been pooping runny poop. I've been thinking I'll end up just having to order the premixed stuff because the one time I did get that (actually for my cats and they didn't like it) my dogs handled it well. It is organ meat and heart. Which of course makes me think there must be more heart in it or they'd have been having a poopfest but at least I'd know they were getting some organ meat. 
Lord, I've never thought so much about the insides of a dead animal as I do since becoming a raw feeder. Or going to The Dark Side. However you want to look at it...:heh:


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## erinwagner (Aug 30, 2010)

I actually took a seminar from Lew this past weekend....my second time. She is awesome. I use her B-Naturals products. I asked the organ question to her because one of my three has a blowout every time he eats organ as well. She said she has 17 rotties and she has a couple that won't touch organ. She said they're fine....she doesn't stress about it. Ideally they should eat it but even without it they are FAR better off than a kibble fed dog.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Yes, whatever works. If the premix does, that would get them some organ meat and not have blowouts on your floors.

I know your diarrhea thread got a little derailed but it is NOT FUN to have to clean that stuff up. I've only had it a couple of times with Rebel and it's horrible. And you've got multiple dogs to deliver it, walk in it, and make your life totally miserable.


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## Donna Little (May 31, 2011)

xellil said:


> Yes, whatever works. If the premix does, that would get them some organ meat and not have blowouts on your floors.
> 
> I know your diarrhea thread got a little derailed but it is NOT FUN to have to clean that stuff up. I've only had it a couple of times with Rebel and it's horrible. And you've got multiple dogs to deliver it, walk in it, and make your life totally miserable.


I can see that you understand my pain. 
Runny poop = Bad. :frown: 
Firm poop = Good. :smile:
I ask for so little....


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## xchairity_casex (Oct 8, 2011)

Cesar is the SAME way ANY tiny bit of organs and his bum is exploding!
i try to give it with extra bone hasnt helped Cesar weighs apox 51 pounds and ive only been able to give him about a single chicken heart and half a chicken liver every other day with the extra bone.


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## AveryandAudrey (Sep 20, 2010)

They are very important! Try feeding them with a raw bone, the calcium will help from organ sensitivity.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

Donna Little said:


> I have yet to even be able to give them that size piece without diarrhea. Now little Nat can handle it with no problem but everyone else...
> They've all been on raw now for about 9-10 months and we've done very little organ. I'm giving my best shot but every time I add it back in I dread the outcome. (Pun intended.) And when you have 8 or 9 dogs with cannonbutt.... I need to run away from home is what I'm tryin' to say. :wink:


when you feed heart, that's when you feed liver?

heart is also one of those foods that is so vascular it makes it a rich muscle meat.....

but when i feed heart, they get no organs.....because it gives them the runs.

and when i feed heart, they get bone in before and after.....

could that be your problem? that you're feeding liver and heart at the same time?


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## Donna Little (May 31, 2011)

magicre said:


> when you feed heart, that's when you feed liver?
> 
> heart is also one of those foods that is so vascular it makes it a rich muscle meat.....
> 
> ...


Nope, organ is only with a chicken leg or back or neck. Still, their little asses blow out... Nothing else bothers them so it kinda surprises me that like 7 of my dogs don't handle it any better than that.
And, I can give several of mine heart for several days in a row, with something else boneless and they're fine. Go figure...


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## BoxerParty (Nov 9, 2011)

Donna Little said:


> Nope, organ is only with a chicken leg or back or neck. Still, their little asses blow out... Nothing else bothers them so it kinda surprises me that like 7 of my dogs don't handle it any better than that.
> And, I can give several of mine heart for several days in a row, with something else boneless and they're fine. Go figure...



Have you tried the liver with an even bonier meal? (I'm thinking chicken feet)

Maybe a whole meal's worth of chicken feet, plus HALF the amount of liver you've been giving up 'til now? 

Having 7 dogs with cannon butt sounds BEYOND TERRIBLE.


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## xchairity_casex (Oct 8, 2011)

hum combining them could be my problem perhapes i will try one day heart one day liver? also i feed the organs with chicken necks and a back


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## kady05 (Jul 29, 2011)

I think they're pretty important.. however, I will say that I know quite a few people who feed raw (it seems to be the new trend in the dog show world, which is a good thing!) who don't bother much with organs. And they pretty much only feed chicken quarters and maybe some boneless pork and/or beef. Yet their dogs still look great. Granted, who knows what their insides look like, or if blood work would show any imbalances. 

I just recently upped my dogs organ intake. I was only feeding beef liver for awhile, and just added in beef kidney to the mix. They get the liver paired with a chicken quarter, 3x a week, 2-3oz. each time (so between 6-9oz. weekly). Kidney gets paired with a turkey neck (which they get twice a week), 2-3oz. each time for now. I try to keep Wilson & Piper at 1lb. of organ meat every week now, and they seem to be tolerating it well (Sako just got introduced to liver and is handling it well so far).


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

Copper is really sensative to liver, so with her I just give a little smaller amount at a time along with a quarter or a back.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

yeah, i'm thinking it would be a potentially explosive combo to feed a richer muscle meat with organ.

yesterday we fed rabbit organs with some goat and today it wasn't pretty.

not that i mind loose stools, but it's nicer when they are solid, so we'll be feeding more quail and rabbit.....because i think my dogs might need a little more bone...


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## Donna Little (May 31, 2011)

Yeah I feel like I keep starting over and over with the organs. So I've been thinking about it and I have decided I'm gonna get some kidney and cut it into *tiny* cubes while it's frozen and just dole out one wee cube one day a week. And we'll go from there. Trying to add it every other day or every 3 days has just lead to disaster. I had some chicken liver in 8 of the 15 days worth of food I put together and of course we've had loose poop everywhere so I made 2 weeks worth of food yesterday and added no organ.
So, I'm just gonna keep a bowl in the freezer with the little pieces, and will pick one day and that'll be it for the week. Then when I feel like they're doing okay with that we'll go for 2 days a week. Most of my guys always poop outside but when they can't make it, it gets real ugly real fast....


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

Donna Little said:


> Yeah I feel like I keep starting over and over with the organs. So I've been thinking about it and I have decided I'm gonna get some kidney and cut it into *tiny* cubes while it's frozen and just dole out one wee cube one day a week. And we'll go from there. Trying to add it every other day or every 3 days has just lead to disaster. I had some chicken liver in 8 of the 15 days worth of food I put together and of course we've had loose poop everywhere so I made 2 weeks worth of food yesterday and added no organ.
> So, I'm just gonna keep a bowl in the freezer with the little pieces, and will pick one day and that'll be it for the week. Then when I feel like they're doing okay with that we'll go for 2 days a week. Most of my guys always poop outside but when they can't make it, it gets real ugly real fast....


my sister in law has a chi/minpin, so very small dog....average sized daily meal is like 2 oz per day.

she has lamb liver, i believe i gave her...and what she does is takes a paring knife and cuts off a thin sliver and feeds that.....but she feeds it with bony meals...never a heart or muscle meal.


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