# Chesney's Fecal Exam- Giardia



## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

So we took Chesney to our vet just to have him look her over and make sure there wasn't anything that needed to be taken care of.
He did a fecal exam, which they send out to have done, and she apparently has giardia, which I have a hard time believing. She's acting totally fine, solid stools, no vomiting, and not to mention, where the heck would she have gotten it? He has medication for us to pick up in the morning, I don't know what it is, Jon forgot to ask. 
If she had giardia, wouldn't she be showing symtoms? not to mention that dogs RARELY get giardia.

They don't know she's on raw, if that matters?


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

Well, puppies do tend to get giardia, just ask me as my female had it 3 times! The medicine they use though is horrible, I quit using it and starting using safeguard wormer which cleared it up just fine, my vet really didn't want to believe it but I made them give me the dose so they knew. I believe they use metronidazole which has a lot of side effects.

Chesney might not show signs yet either because she just recently contracted it or because the raw keeps her poop solid.


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

whiteleo said:


> Well, puppies do tend to get giardia, just ask me as my female had it 3 times! The medicine they use though is horrible, I quit using it and starting using safeguard wormer which cleared it up just fine, my vet really didn't want to believe it but I made them give me the dose so they knew. I believe they use metronidazole which has a lot of side effects.


Hmm, but if I went that route, how do I know she's cleared up, since there are no symptoms now?


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## spookychick13 (Jan 26, 2010)

Some dogs can be asymptomatic and still have it or still test positive.

My advice to you (since you're more of a friend than a client, obviously you can't get mad at me for bad advice :wink would be to let it ride. If she shows diarrhea then talk about treating with your vet...if not...take another fecal in...about a month from now.

We mostly treat with fenbendazole, but honestly, if it were one of my dogs and they weren't presenting with diarrhea, I'd just keep an eye out. Sad to say, and my apologies, I don't mean to accuse, but some clinics scurry to find a 'problem to treat' if they want more money from the client.  This isn't the case where I work, but I have worked at clinics that do this kind of thing. Shame on them.


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## malluver1005 (Nov 15, 2009)

I know of a dog that got giardia at the boarding place I worked at. A 2.5 year old Old English Sheepdog "Wilson." One of his symptoms was diarrhea. The vet gave him metronidazole. I don't know if it did the trick or not.


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## xxshaelxx (Mar 8, 2010)

whiteleo said:


> Well, puppies do tend to get giardia, just ask me as my female had it 3 times! The medicine they use though is horrible, I quit using it and starting using safeguard wormer which cleared it up just fine, my vet really didn't want to believe it but I made them give me the dose so they knew. I believe they use metronidazole which has a lot of side effects.


Metronidazole (as well as a bland, prescription diet) is what my vet recommended, and it didn't do JACK for Amaya. Her stools would go from really runny to partially firm and back to really runny, and it lasted a few weeks. When I went back to my breeder to pick up Ryou, she gave me the same stuff that she gives out to new puppies that had worked before, as well as the safeguard wormer. One of them did the trick, because within a day or so, her poop was back to normal.


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## g00dgirl (Nov 18, 2009)

I like Spooky's idea of just having another fecal done in a few weeks if she is still showing no symptoms. 
Felix had coccidia when I got him, very obvious from the diarrhea though. He got Panacur for that. Not sure of it's effectiveness with giardia though.


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

I think I'll pick up the meds, jsut to be in good standing with my vet, but hold off on actually giving any. I wonder where in the world she would have gotten it. 

In the meantime, should I be concerned about any of my other pets getting it from her?


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

Really the only way to tell if the pup is clear is to do a fecal exam. How come they don't have DIY fecal exams like they have for almost everything else: pregnancy, HIV, drugs, alcohol, etc. Lots more just can't remember them all.


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

Giardia is contact contagious,meaning poop contact, smelling the hindend after pooping etc. My male contacted it from my female.


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

whiteleo said:


> Giardia is contact contagious,meaning poop contact, smelling the hindend after pooping etc. My male contacted it from my female.


Grissom might as well be diagnosed now. 
stupid poop eater.


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

Go look way back on threads to when Doc was here, I'm sure it was safeguard that I used but it very well could have been Panacur. We discussed it on here about a year ago or so. I really wouldn't use the meds if they gave you Metronidazole, google it.


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

If he's not showing symptoms, I wouldn't give anything. Neither would I go buy the meds from the vet just to keep him happy. I'm thinking its a misdiagnosis.


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

Not nescessarilly (is that spelled right) check out the thread on page 21 in Raw feeding called: Now What?


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Giardia to me is not of real concern to me, unless there are children around who don't understand good hygiene. Most dogs that have it show no symptoms and are just carriers of it, its positive on routine fecal exams all the time here. It doesn't cause disease quite as bad in dogs as in humans since dogs have iron clad immune systems compared to us. Some dogs do show symptoms of it but that is rare and usually its the dogs that are immune compromised.


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## JayJayisme (Aug 2, 2009)

They can also get it from eating wet dirt or drinking even a small amount of contaminated water. If she really does have it, the other dogs are highly susceptible, especially Mr. Poop Eater there. :wink:


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Its called "Back Packers Disease" since its naturally occurring in most waters here in Colorado. Wild animals do their business and it just gets into the waters and the unsuspecting camper thinks that drinking the pristine, high mountain waters are acceptable to drink...boy are they surprised when they get sick!


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

So if I just ask the vet for safeguard instead will he just give it to me?
I'm not that concerned about it, I just really don't want to take a chance of it spreading and ending up with five animals having cannon butt, ya know? Not really a chance I care to take at the moment. 
Chesney had out bout of loose stool today, but it was after an unsually large meal for her, so hard to say the cause.


ETA: Is there any harm in going ahead and treating them all with the SafeGuard? I now have visions of letting the dogs out in the morning and having diarrhea sprayed across my entire back yard. YIKES! 

Also, just out of curiosity, does anyone know a ballpark price for me? I jsut want to know if I should just bring cash to the vet tomorrow, or if this is a battle for the credit card. haha


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## spookychick13 (Jan 26, 2010)

Fenbendazole is Panacur. We don't carry Safeguard, which seems to be a more expensive brand of Panacur. Panacur is based on the weight of the dogs. We carry it in a powder form that you mix into food for three days...I suppose you could coat raw with it ala shake n bake style. 
You could also mix it with water and syringe it down the hatch too, I'd think.

For a 40lb dog, 3 days of panacur from our clinic is $15.00.


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

The syringe option is a good one, as I remember reading back to the old post my female didn't have symptoms either but she puked up her entire dinner the next morning which was very unusal. I'd just ask the vet for the safeguard in the syringe if he has the other meds waiting for you, just tell them you've done your research and you know that the safeguard will work. Thats what I had to do.


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

A little update.
Diarrhea started last night... all... night... long.
And not just Chesney.
Grissom had it this morning, and he hasn't had diarrhea ever on raw. Not even once. 
I'm keeping a close eye on annie and champ, so far so good. Fingers crossed.
Jon is swinging by the vet in an hour on his lunch break, he's going to try to get them to give him the safeguard stuff. I hope they'll give me some for grissom without doing a fecal first. Fecals are $50 here, I've never paid that before for a fecal. In utah I was only paying aroud $25.


*ETA:* We started three days of Panacur for Chesney and Grissom. 
Still really hoping that Annie and Champ don't show any signs, so far so good!!


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

What medicine did Jon come home with?


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

whiteleo said:


> What medicine did Jon come home with?


Panacur. 
I'm supposed to give grissom two of the little powdery packets per day, and chesney one for three days, then he wants to run a fecal on both of them. 
*fingers crossed*

My vet actually gave him this without him requesting it, that's just what he perscribed. I told Jon to go in and ask for SafeGuard, assuming he'd give the nasty flagyl stuff, and the vet told him he perscribed Panacur, and that he never recommends flagyl unless it's an absolute last resort, because it's "pretty nasty stuff with some pretty nasty side effects."
I knew I liked this vet, aside from him recommended high quality kibble "like science diet, iams, and upper end purina stuff." haha.


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

Thats good news! I hope word gets out to other vets about the use of this for giardia.


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## Jodysmom (Jan 9, 2010)

I'm glad you didn't have to persuade your vet to prescribe Panacur. I've read that Flagyl just holds the symptoms at bay for a while but doesn't get rid of it. Please keep us updated.


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## Doc (Jan 17, 2009)

I am the king of Giardia!!!!!!! It can be deadly in young pups. They are nasty little protozoan critters that attach to the intestinal walls and multiply. If your pup or dog tested positive, you really should be concerned. Not treating can lead to the smaller intestine being sucked into the larger intestine which can/will cause death if not treated.

That M medicine that the vet prescribes is not worth a damn. I will never use it on any of my dogs.

Liquid Panacur (Safe Guard Goat Wormer - Tractor Supply $17.99) is the cure. It is not labled in the US for Giardia but it is in in the UK. I perfer the liquid over the grannular packets. 1 ml per 5 pounds 1 time per day is the rate for 3 days. I do not think 5 days will cause any problem. If one dog has Giardia, I would treat every dog.

As a side note, Panacur is labeled for intestinal worms. As a breeder, I use it on week 6 with the pups. Should any Giardia be lurking, I wipe it out with my regular worming schedule with my pups.

Good luck.

PS You may want to retreat in month.


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

Doc said:


> I am the king of Giardia!!!!!!! It can be deadly in young pups. They are nasty little protozoan critters that attach to the intestinal walls and multiply. If your pup or dog tested positive, you really should be concerned. Not treating can lead to the smaller intestine being sucked into the larger intestine which can/will cause death if not treated.
> 
> That M medicine that the vet prescribes is not worth a damn. I will never use it on any of my dogs.
> 
> ...


She did in fact have it, and our other three, we're pretty sure got it too because they all got terrible diarrhea.
We treated all four of them with the Panacur, and they're all clear now.


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

Doc, long time no hear from you, where ya been?:biggrin: Hope to hear from you lots and lots more.


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## Doc (Jan 17, 2009)

I been around, LOL. I hope to be back more regularly now. Been investigating another intestinal problem - cryptosporidium. It is worst than Giardia - very difficult to eliminate once it is established in the gut/lower intestine. Many doggie vets have never heard of it or treated for it. Very similar symptoms as Giardia but the normal fecal test does not pick up on it. And again, that damn Metro whatever is the usual prescription and does nothing for it. Even Panacur will not touch it.

There's always something ...


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