# Allergies



## ajcstr

What are the most common protein allergies among dogs. Seems like a lot of foods contain chicken or salmon - how common are allergies to these?


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## moon

I've been researching and there's a theory that the meat protein isn't the cause of most dogfood allergies, but rather grain mites in the dog food...


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## DaneMama

I think that people arbitrarily place the blame of food allergies and intolerances on animal protein sources. When in reality it's nearly impossible to pinpoint the culprit in a diet consisting of 20-50+ ingredients. It might even be a combination of ingredients that work together. Who really knows for sure?

If one has an allergy prone dog they should give home prepared diets (raw or cooked) heavy consideration. A limited ingredient diet is not only healthier but gives the owner more control over what their dog eats.


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## ajcstr

I am actually trying to rotate to avoid allergies at this point.


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## DaneMama

ajcstr said:


> I am actually trying to rotate to avoid allergies at this point.


Rotate kibbles? How does that help with allergies? I'm merely curious...


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## Ania's Mommy

danemama08 said:


> Rotate kibbles? How does that help with allergies? I'm merely curious...


Back in my kibble days, I remember being told (more than once) that it was a good idea to rotate food because if you fed the same thing for a long period of time, your dog could develop allergies to it.


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## ajcstr

Ania's Mommy said:


> Back in my kibble days, I remember being told (more than once) that it was a good idea to rotate food because if you fed the same thing for a long period of time, your dog could develop allergies to it.


Right, rotate the proteins. Theory being they are more likely to develop a chicken allergy if they always eat foods containing chicken. Fromm has some nice single source protein (chicken, pork, beef) wet foods that I plan to rotate but the kibble is a little tougher because so many have chicken or salmon. To be totally off the "anal" chart, I am not giving her anything with lamb or duck JUST IN CASE she does get an allergy, I'll have some proteins she has never eaten.

http://www.floridachowchowclub.com/Rotating_Your_Dogs_Food.htm


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## dmastery

*Dog Food Ingredients*

A single source of meat protein isn't the cause of most dog food allergies, perhaps a dog could be allergic to other source of protein. Dog food by product contained other ingredients beside chicken or salmon. For example “chicken by-products” could be from turkeys, ducks, geese, buzzards, etc, instead of a single source like chicken.

http://homemadedogfoodsite.com/ingredients-dog-food/


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## magicre

dogs can also be allergic to other ingredients in dog foods, such as alfalfa, wheat, certain fruit sources, or vegetable sources, which are used for their vitamin and mineral properties....

it doesn't have to be the actual protein....it can also be the processing...

my dogs could not eat kibble that had chicken in it, yet if i cooked chicken, they were fine.


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## ajcstr

dmastery said:


> A single source of meat protein isn't the cause of most dog food allergies, perhaps a dog could be allergic to other source of protein. Dog food by product contained other ingredients beside chicken or salmon. For example “chicken by-products” could be from turkeys, ducks, geese, buzzards, etc, instead of a single source like chicken.
> 
> http://homemadedogfoodsite.com/ingredients-dog-food/


I thought that would have to be labeled "poultry by-products".

Chicken by-products have to be from chickens (like McNuggets)


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## Paws&Tails

danemama08 said:


> Rotate kibbles? How does that help with allergies? I'm merely curious...




Rotating food reduces the risk of them developing allergies. Feeding the same food day in and day out raises the risk of them developing allergies (and I imagine the dog would get sick of the same food).

It's not just protein that dogs can be allergic to. They can be allergic to vegetables, grains, dairy etc. 
Grains are a very big culprit for allergies.
I've got Spike on an elimination diet and so far I have found he is allergic to rice. I suspect he may be allergic to chicken as well.


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## magicre

dmastery said:


> A single source of meat protein isn't the cause of most dog food allergies, perhaps a dog could be allergic to other source of protein. Dog food by product contained other ingredients beside chicken or salmon. For example “chicken by-products” could be from turkeys, ducks, geese, buzzards, etc, instead of a single source like chicken.
> 
> http://homemadedogfoodsite.com/ingredients-dog-food/


pretty hard to take this site seriously...or the information if you want to call it information.....

it's a 'for profit' website, selling food cures for dogs with cancer.....if it smells like a scam, and looks like a scam, chances are the info is not accurate.


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## ajcstr

dmastery said:


> A single source of meat protein isn't the cause of most dog food allergies, perhaps a dog could be allergic to other source of protein. Dog food by product contained other ingredients beside chicken or salmon. For example “chicken by-products” could be from turkeys, ducks, geese, buzzards, etc, instead of a single source like chicken.
> 
> http://homemadedogfoodsite.com/ingredients-dog-food/


AAFCO definitions:

Chicken by-product meal - consists of the ground, rendered, clean parts of the carcass of slaughtered chicken, such as necks, feet, undeveloped eggs and intestines, exclusive of feathers, except in such amounts as might occur unavoidable in good processing practice.

Poultry By-Product Meal - consists of the ground, rendered, clean parts of the carcass of slaughtered poultry, such as necks, feet, undeveloped eggs, intestines, exclusive of feathers, except in such amounts as might occur unavoidably in good processing practices.


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## Mia

I thought dogs were allergic to chicken, but I dont understand how they are allergic to chicken in kibble but not when fed PMR?

Can someone enlighten me?


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## magicre

Rye&Ted said:


> I thought dogs were allergic to chicken, but I dont understand how they are allergic to chicken in kibble but not when fed PMR?
> 
> Can someone enlighten me?


maybe it has to to with the processing because i can't eat deli chicken, but i can eat chicken.

both of my dogs had trouble with kibble chicken, yet they can eat it raw....

i hope someone can explain this one to me....too. good question


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## Khan

Khan is prone to both food and environmental allergies. Salmon, Flax, Cheese, Cottonwood pollen, Cedar. Just to name a few. When we switched him to Raw it was amazing the transformation that took place within days. He started gaining weight (he was only 5 months and suffered from malabsorption until eating raw) he still primarily eats chicken and has had no problems at all. 
I'm not sure if it is the processing or just the long list of ingredients that could be the culprit. I just know that this works and am thankful for finding it!


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## Jack Monzon

Khan said:


> Khan is prone to both food and environmental allergies. Salmon, Flax, Cheese, Cottonwood pollen, Cedar. Just to name a few. When we switched him to Raw it was amazing the transformation that took place within days. He started gaining weight (he was only 5 months and suffered from malabsorption until eating raw) he still primarily eats chicken and has had no problems at all.
> I'm not sure if it is the processing or just the long list of ingredients that could be the culprit. I just know that this works and am thankful for finding it!


Could you elaborate on the transformation? Other than the weight gain, were his allergies diminished, even the environmental ones?


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## Khan

Jack Monzon said:


> Could you elaborate on the transformation? Other than the weight gain, were his allergies diminished, even the environmental ones?


For starters, he NEVER had a normal poo. They were always less then soft n serve soft, to out right explosion butt! (Yuck, sorry) He was tested for parasites a couple times, and at one point the vet was leaning toward IBS. Really a 4-5 month old puppy with a life long intestinal problem. Just wasn't going to buy that. It was at that point that I started looking at all the high quality dog foods I had gone through. I lined up all of them and found some common ingredients: Flax. I eliminated that and did see a slight improvement. We were back to soft n serve. 
He still was licking and itching. Not to the point of being bald; but that noise drives ya crazy. (like a little kid when they smack their chewing gum! Ahhh) :smile:
He also had black yeast gunk in his ears.
Now you need to remember, he was only 4-5 months old. So it wasn't really bad, it was just something I realized I would probably need to keep an eye on, and get into a routine of regularly cleaning his ears.
During these months I had him on countless different kibble, and after the Flax finding that left him with a very limited choice. In January of 2010 after finding this site, and researching malabsorption syndrome I decided to take him off kibble all together. Mostly because his poo was better; but not "Right"
That's when I really noticed the so called transformation. Within about 5 days off kibble I realized he no longer licked and itched. I noticed the black yeast disappearing on it's own! and he had Blue Ribbon Poo! Take it from the person who cleans up after the dogs. There is nothing worse then trying to pick up runny messy poo! Gross!! 

As for the environmental allergies. He still has his bouts, as would a human when the pollen is in full swing. As for the Cedar, it wasn't until I bought a new costco bed (they started filling them with Cedar) that I found he was allergic to this. Just like a person, his eyes got red, his ears had a little bit of a rash inside, and he was itchy. Once I took the bed away, eyes and ears cleared up and again the itchiness went away.
I'm not sure that a diet would cure anyone (human or canine) from environmental allergies. 
I think that having the food allergies under control, it does make the environmental ones alot easier to spot if they occur. As with the cedar bed.


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## magicre

wow, khan...sounds like both of my dogs.....

it's almost as if you were living in our house....

well stated.....and man, you worked hard. good for you...

my pug has some environmental allergies....one of which is the furminator shampoo..we stopped that and he stopped itching.

too bad, because that furminator really works with super shed dogs.....

all in all, though, your story is my story, except i have two dogs and each had the problems you described.

within days...i could watch the improvement as it unfolded.....

i'll never go back to kibble or home cooked. not with the miracle i watched....

thanks for being so detailed.


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## 1605

dmastery said:


> For example “chicken by-products” could be from turkeys, ducks, geese, buzzards, etc, instead of a single source like chicken.


From where are you getting this information? By law chicken by-products are just that... there is no source from other birds unless it's specifically labeled as such.

You wouldn't happen to be associated with this website you are touting, would you?


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## gailb

My boxer has allergies; itchy skin, runny nose and sometimes diarrhea and vomiting. He had lost a lot of hair from Demodex when I adopted him. After a year when the hair had not grown back, I took him to an allergist. She told me there is no test for food allergies. She put him on a vet food, rabbit and potatoe, put him on Ketoconazole for 3 weeks because he tested positive from a skin scrap for yeast. She said that was caused from all the licking. She took him off heartworm meds and put him on Ivermectin for a month. He did great on that regimen. When we went back, she gave me 3 names of dog foods to try; Natural Balance Duck and Potato, Natures Recipe Vegetarian, and Wellness. She didn't specify which Wellness so I started him on Natural Balance. He did okay but not as good as he did on the vet diet. After a while he started getting sick on the Natural Balance and I found out they changed the ingredients and that could be causing the problem, so I switched him to Natures Recipe. I'm still trying to find something as good as the rabbit and potato. So far no luck. She told me the #1 food allergy is corn, followed by chicken, pork, wheat. The only way to find out is to feed him exclusively 1 ingredient at a time for 10 days and see how he reacts. I started with chicken, he had what sounded like an asthma attack after 2 days of strickly chicken and then broke out in hives. Same thing when I fed him popcorn, that same night he broke out in hives. I quit with the food challenge. Now I'm researching other foods to try him on and am going to switch to Ivermectin instead of Heartgard or Sentinel. Sentinel is what I had him on and she said it has pork in it. With Heartgard, he got sick. Looking at trying Acana Pacifica next or a new food I found here in our area called Nature's Select. It is made here in Austin. Not sure about it yet. Wish me luck.


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