# How should I fix this??



## meggels (May 30, 2010)

So, I have a dilemna with two of my dogs. Okay, technically, only one is my dog...

Irma (female frenchie) is living in my room for awhile to make space in other parts of the house. Also living in my room are Abbie (35lb bluetick coonhound mix) and Murphy, another (male) frenchie. 

They all have their own separate crates. 

Abbie goes after Irma if she and Irma are loose in my room. Irma has only been up here since last night, but Abbie has done this with her before (when I brought her up to visit). 

She doesn't bite or attack her, but rather, gets on top of her and pins her to the ground while growling. Irma just freezes when she does this until Abbie gets off, then tries to run away, and Abbie does it again. Abbie's tail is wagging while she does this, but I know that doesn't mean a whole lot. 

How should I go about handling this/correcting it? I'm guessing Abbie just being dominant/protective of her space (my room) but I want her to get along with Irma, or at least, ignore her. When they are outside in the yard together, Abbie doesn't do this. If Irma comes up to her, she might growl a little bit, but she doesn't actually go after her on her own. This is why I figure it might be her protecting what she views as her space. When Irma is in her crate and Abbie is loose (like right now), she doesn't pay any attention to her. And if I put Abbie in her crate to let Irma and Murph play (who get along GREAT) than Abbie paws and whines at her crate. 

Here are the culprits in question!

Murph









Irma









Abigail Hound









We're still not sure if Irmy is going to become my dog or not (posted about that a week or two ago), but for now she is at least going to live in my room, so I'd like for her and Abbie to get along!


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Sounds to me like they're establishing their pack order. One thing thar does stay constant is you being dominant over all of the dogs. I wouldn't punish Abby for being dominant but just let her know when she is going a bit over board but stay calm but assertive. Abby should be dominant since she is already established in her pack. What happens if you let all three out at once?


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

danemama08 said:


> Sounds to me like they're establishing their pack order. One thing thar does stay constant is you being dominant over all of the dogs. I wouldn't punish Abby for being dominant but just let her know when she is going a bit over board but stay calm but assertive. Abby should be dominant since she is already established in her pack. What happens if you let all three out at once?


She acts this way as well, whether or not Murph is out with them. Murph runs over to Irma, but it's to play, and Abbie runs over to start her badgering, so I feel bad for Irma cause I imagine it's a little overwhelming. 

What would you suggest I do to correct her when she does go overboard? And what would you consider going overboard? I just wanna make sure I'm clear about when I should and shouldn't step in and what's normal for dogs and what's not lol.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Well it's hard to tell. Overboard for my dogs is a lot more than it would be for your dogs. I say pay attention to body language for both dogs. From the sounds of it, she is not going too overboard but if she doesn't give her a break I would step in. Spray bottles are a great way to stop behaviors from across the room. Either that or break it up manually without words or aggression on your end.


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

The less the human inteferes in a dog relationship, the better. Human inteference will almost always make it worse. I would say it is getting out of hand when blood flows or when one dog tries to run away yelping but can't because they are closed in a room. Other than that, let them work it out.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

i would take them for a long walk several times...this establishes you as the leader and allows them to fall into their place....

first on either side of you and then walk on the same side...it worked for malia and bubba.....


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

Well, there seems to be some progress tonight and Abbie seems to be realizing that Irma is not a threat and is not going to try to bump her off the top spot in the pack order. So that's good! they were even sorta playin together for a minute.


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## VolvoRottie (Jul 30, 2010)

RawFedDogs said:


> The less the human inteferes in a dog relationship, the better. Human inteference will almost always make it worse. I would say it is getting out of hand when blood flows or when one dog tries to run away yelping but can't because they are closed in a room. Other than that, let them work it out.



This is going to take more than the old 'let them work it out' thing. The dogs at each other are SAME GENDER and SIMILAR AGE. this is a recipe for diaster and or a dead dog depending on which one is the more aggressive. The Hound looks like she could easy kill the French BD, who'd be very unlucky in a fight for her life I'd imagine with that short nose, deformed jaw [undershot] and small size. 

This is a typical pet dog owner problem which often ends only when one of the bitches is rehomed. Bitch fights ARE serious and it's not going to help if they sat in crates until the cows came home. Dogs get into it over resource, territory and owner accesss [attention] and 'just because they're animals' - 

My rule advice is always to avoid same sex, same age groupings. The age grouping means no two of the same sex in the same level of maturity.if any of you think having both the girls neutered will possibly make any difference in the dominance issues - forget it. The mother daughter team duo can end in death or lameness and two unrelated SPAYED bitches can hate like you can't believe possible - breed not important. Small or large, girls can fight to the death when males will walk away or stop at some point. I've owned Rotties for 32 yrs and would never do same gender close in age dogs ever. 

From another breed: " Interbitch aggression is very serious and almost no good trainer claims to be able to actually "cure" it. Most who reach a workable solution do so by getting owners to implement a rigorous separation of the two dogs -- management -- with a small amount of behavioral mod."

"Inter-dog aggression escalates when the dogs reach sexual maturity (it doesn’t matter if the animals are spayed or neutered) which is usually between 2 – 3 years old, depending on the breed. Smaller dogs reach sexual maturity sooner, bigger dogs reach sexual maturity later. This explains how dogs can be raised together from puppyhood and then suddenly develops an intense hatred for each other and subsequently starts fighting.

Fighting is worst between female dogs. If a client considering the purchase of a second dog, I will recommend a male with another male or a male and a female. Female dogs will fight to the death and it is best not to put two females in them same household together. They don’t call them bitches for nothing."

Source: http://www.thepetprofessor.com/secAr...Aggression.asp


PLEASE place one of the dogs, ASAP. The heartbreak of the fights, the damage done, the cost inflicted.........is not worth it. Having to live your life constantly on guard sucks and I would wish it upon no one:frown:


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## xxshaelxx (Mar 8, 2010)

I have issues with Amaya sometimes, and unless it's 2:00 in the morning, I generally let them go at it until I feel as though they're not working it out, then I'll step in and tell them to stop, and once I have their attention, they stop. Sometimes it takes me moving towards them, or raising my voice at them, though. I feel this is just like me barking at them to stop. *shrugs*

The other day, Amaya (30 lbs) LITERALLY had Kuso (45 lbs) PINNED beneath her, squealing, unable to get up and run away. As soon as I opened the door to break them up, she broke from him and took off in the other direction, because she knew she was being...well, a bitch.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

VolvoRottie said:


> This is going to take more than the old 'let them work it out' thing. The dogs at each other are SAME GENDER and SIMILAR AGE. this is a recipe for diaster and or a dead dog depending on which one is the more aggressive. The Hound looks like she could easy kill the French BD, who'd be very unlucky in a fight for her life I'd imagine with that short nose, deformed jaw [undershot] and small size.
> 
> This is a typical pet dog owner problem which often ends only when one of the bitches is rehomed. Bitch fights ARE serious and it's not going to help if they sat in crates until the cows came home. Dogs get into it over resource, territory and owner accesss [attention] and 'just because they're animals' -
> 
> ...


Huh??? I don't think that's the case here at all. 

This is a multiple dog household, most of which, are females. We only have two males out of about *counts* 10 dogs. Abbie sees females the most (except for Murphy, who she has spent the past three months with back when we lived in CT). Some of her favorite dogs are the whippet and the large 80lb Xolo, both of which, are females. She's never had an issue with females. I think she was just trying to assert herself in "her" space (my room). It's already getting better and she was even playing with Irma a little last night.

And Irma isn't going anywhere lol. She lives here. We just moved her upstairs to my room because we needed to make space downstairs. She technically isn't mine LOL. She's just bunking with us for the foreseeable future.


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## harrkim120 (Feb 2, 2010)

VolvoRottie said:


> This is going to take more than the old 'let them work it out' thing. The dogs at each other are SAME GENDER and SIMILAR AGE. this is a recipe for diaster and or a dead dog depending on which one is the more aggressive. The Hound looks like she could easy kill the French BD, who'd be very unlucky in a fight for her life I'd imagine with that short nose, deformed jaw [undershot] and small size.
> 
> This is a typical pet dog owner problem which often ends only when one of the bitches is rehomed. Bitch fights ARE serious and it's not going to help if they sat in crates until the cows came home. Dogs get into it over resource, territory and owner accesss [attention] and 'just because they're animals' -
> 
> ...


While every once in a while this can hold true (depending on breed as well), I find this to generally be an old wives tale. It all depends on the personality of the dogs, not just age and gender. 

In your case though, it definitely just sounds like she's trying to take charge and control the situation. I would implement the advice that has been given here and give it some time. In the mean time, just make sure that you keep an eye on them.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

VolvoRottie said:


> This is going to take more than the old 'let them work it out' thing. The dogs at each other are SAME GENDER and SIMILAR AGE. this is a recipe for diaster and or a dead dog depending on which one is the more aggressive. The Hound looks like she could easy kill the French BD, who'd be very unlucky in a fight for her life I'd imagine with that short nose, deformed jaw [undershot] and small size.
> 
> This is a typical pet dog owner problem which often ends only when one of the bitches is rehomed. Bitch fights ARE serious and it's not going to help if they sat in crates until the cows came home. Dogs get into it over resource, territory and owner accesss [attention] and 'just because they're animals' -
> 
> ...


I don't think this is the rule, but maybe an exception for a few circumstances, and not applicable to this situation. I don't think Abby is trying to kill the frenchie at all 

We have four females, all of which are under five years old. They all are fine together. They have their occasional spat here and there but nothing major. We foster Danes and have had females of similar age come in with similar success. I think it really depends on the situation and what dogs you are putting together. I do think that the above ideal apply to multiple unspayed females of similar age, but clearly that is not applicable here since the dominant girl is spayed.


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

danemama08 said:


> I don't think this is the rule, but maybe an exception for a few circumstances, and not applicable to this situation. I don't think Abby is trying to kill the frenchie at all


The frenchie would be dead if she was trying to kill it. It is very very rare that one dog will try to kill or even injure another in the same house. 

I think more depends on the personality and dog savyness(if thats a word) of the owner. With a take charge & dog savy owner, a situation like that would almost never exist.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

RawFedDogs said:


> The frenchie would be dead if she was trying to kill it. It is very very rare that one dog will try to kill or even injure another in the same house.


Oh, I never said that Abby couldn't kill the frenchie, she definitely could if circumstances were different. Just that I don't think she is trying to at all, just establish pack order, which is absolutely necessary in multi dog homes.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

danemama08 said:


> Oh, I never said that Abby couldn't kill the frenchie, she definitely could if circumstances were different. Just that I don't think she is trying to at all, just establish pack order, which is absolutely necessary in multi dog homes.


Yes, I agree. I really don't think Abbie is trying to kill Irma LOL. Esp since they are getting better and better. There was NO growling what so ever when they are out for a few minutes together this morning! Abbie is NOT aggressive what so ever, some of her favorite dogs in this house are females. She wags her tail every morning when we go downstairs to potty and she sees whippet and the xolo for the first time since the night before lol. It's very cute. The only time she does get "aggressive" is when dogs get in her face too much, too soon. She doesn't like that and will growl/show her teeth, but still has never bitten any dog. She really does like pretty mcuh every dog she meets. She's very good at interacting with dogs. Sometimes she's submissive, sometimes she's the more dominant one (like in this case).


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

meggels said:


> The only time she does get "aggressive" is when dogs get in her face too much, too soon. She doesn't like that and will growl/show her teeth, but still has never bitten any dog.


Thats dog talk meaning, "Please stay away from me for now. I'm not in the mood for silliness. Perhaps later." :smile:


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

malia does that to bubba and she COULD kill the pug.....he gets in her face and if she's not in the mood, she lets him know....she makes him cry when he chews on her lip.

dogs do this...they are dogs...

we rarely interfere.....even when we had four shih tzus, all one year apart....except when blood was drawn..then they were separated...


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

RawFedDogs said:


> Thats dog talk meaning, "Please stay away from me for now. I'm not in the mood for silliness. Perhaps later." :smile:


Haha yup, I knew that LOL  She's a good girl. She's not mean or aggressive, and can be very submissive with MOST dogs.


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## xxshaelxx (Mar 8, 2010)

I had an old coworker, actually, who had two danes that would try to kill each other whenever they were in the same room together. They were (well, technically are) litter mates, unspayed, and I don't think she really knew much of what she was doing with them. They got into a fight once while I was there. I didn't think much of it, and had the sliding glass door open just enough so I could stand there and pet the one, but she let the other one out of the bedroom, and she came racing around the corner, saw the other dog, pushed past me, and they got into it BIG time. I was actually the one that reached in there and grabbed the one's collar, while my old coworker was trying to grab at the other's tail... ??? We finally got them separated, and one had a huge laceration on her gums from the other. Scary.


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