# dog poop - tracking in salmonella



## BrownStandardPoodle (Aug 22, 2010)

Hi!

This is my first post.

I have 2 dogs - one is a brown male standard poodle weighing 85 lbs. The other is a black female standard poodle weighing 54 lbs.

i have just switched over to raw food after having 2 months!!! of mainly diarrhea or soft poo from them. I have been beside myself with vet visits and trying to figure this out.

I started with no food for 2 days, except for pumpkin and this product from a raw food pet store. After ONE applicaiton of the powder (I had tried pumpkin and many, many other vet suggested things/pills), the diarrhea is gone. I can't believe it!!

So now that I've started, I'm concerned about the salmonella in the dog poop. I'm not worried about salmonella on the dogs, etc. 

I have a fenced area that they eliminate in. So I'm thinking - Pick up the poo, but the salmonella could still be on the rocks. So dogs go walk through there to eliminate, they pick up the salmonella from the poop. 

Should I spray bleach every time after I pick up the poo??

This is my last worry over raw feeding. I am just so siiiccckkk of my dogs' diarrhea, that they're never going back to kibble. I just need some advice about how anal (sorry for the pun) to get in this poop thing.

Thanks!!
Carol


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Most newbies to raw are worried about bacteria. Salmonella doesn't persist in the environment long, so if you clean up your dog's excrement right away you should be fine. I wouldn't worry about spraying bleach to sanitize...that seems a bit over the top.


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

Hey Carol, Welcome to the board. Don't worry about salmonella. It is everywhere. It was everywhere before you ever got dogs. It was everywhere when you fed kibble. Its really no big deal.

I rarely wash my hands when handling my dog's food. I just rinse my hands and dry them off. I don't clean the dog's eating places ... they do that. :smile: I wash their bowls maybe once a month if that often. They only eat out of bowls a few times a week. 

I just never concern myself with bacteria of any kind. I've been feeding raw for 8 years. I don't get sick. My dogs don't get sick. My wife never gets sick. My grandchildren never get sick when they visit. Visitors don't get sick.


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## Ania's Mommy (Feb 8, 2009)

Well first of all, welcome! We're glad to have you here. :smile:

I wouldn't worry about salmonella in a raw fed dog's poo as much as I would salmonella in a kibble fed dog's poo. From what I understand, there is actually a higher rate of salmonella in kibble "elimination" as there is in raw poos.

So if you weren't worried before the switch, I wouldn't worry now. Salmonella is one of those things that practically everywhere. I wouldn't overly concern myself about it. 

Also, some others with more experience will need to chime in, but I've never heard of a raw fed dog stepping in raw meat or their poo, tracking it in the house, and the family coming down with salmonella. :biggrin:

Ask any and all questions you can think of! We're here to help.

Richelle


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## bdb5853 (May 21, 2010)

I agree with what everyone here has said.

I'd be much more worried about salmonella and e.coli etc. in a kibble fed dog than a raw fed one.

Just do the basics with sanitation, you don't have to go overboard at all. 

I'm glad that the diarrhea has stopped and that they are doing well on a raw diet. Do you still have them on a pre-made?

I assume the powder you used was a probiotic?


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## Jodysmom (Jan 9, 2010)

Hi Carol,

The first time I switched to raw feeding I went through a heck of a time getting Jody's stools normal. I tried again with the advice of the wonderful people here on this sight and I can tell you my GSD has had no diarrhea since I started a month ago. Don't hesitate to ask for help next time you are going through this because I guarantee you others are too and we can all learn.

My dog's stool are easy to pick up now and there is none left on the grass or rocks once I pick it up (that I can see) so that won't be an issue once you
get your dog's stool stabilized. I don't worry about the rabbit poop, goose poop, or bird poop in my backyard so I am not going to worry about the remants of dog stool. If I kibble fed, that is another story. Those are a mess to pick up and to leave remnants.

Tami


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

salmonella is everywhere...and getting it has more to do with you or your dog's immune system than anything else.

salmonella lives on surfaces for quite a while....but so does staph and many bacterium...

we live in a society that has glorified, almost saintified the nasty staph and salmonella and e.coli and all the other millions of bacterium....and fungi and viruses and, and, and...

feed your dog raw.....and you eat a salad daily...cut down on the starches, get some exercise just because your heart wants you to....exercise your dog....

and honest, the likelihood of 'getting' a bacterial infection goes way way down....to like nothing.

it's the immune system..not the germ....usually.


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## BrownStandardPoodle (Aug 22, 2010)

*thanks!*

Wow!! Everyone has been so helpful!!!:smile:

I'm really surprised that the dog poop area is such a non-issue! 

The powder I used for fixing the diarrhea is called ST-C. It contains peppermint, chamomile, dandelion root, slippery elm, marshmallow root, fennel, ginger root, oregon grape (wild harvested), rosemary leaf and tumeric.

My brown poodle absolutely is crazy about the raw food. Now everytime I open the fridge he stares at me hopefully; whereas before, he didn't care about the fridge. My black poodle is more tentative, and she ignored the chicken heart I put in her bowl. Today, the 2nd day of the new diet, I'm going to give them chicken backs.

Wish me luck!!

Carol


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

hi, carol...if your dogs have been having diarrhea and soft poops these past few months, may i suggest that you start with chicken backs and feed that and that only....for a little while?

if their stools don't solidify, remove some of the skin and definitely remove the excess organs on the back?

they won't be needing organs for about two months...

here are two links that should help, if you've not read them already --

How to get started | Prey Model Raw

and

Skylar, Zack, and Abby on the WEB


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## JayJayisme (Aug 2, 2009)

On the topic of Salmonella in stools, a theory (and that's all it is, a theory) has been bandied about in the raw community that kibble-fed dogs do not have the same natural level of acidity in their stomach acid as raw fed or wild dogs do due to the effect of carbs, grains, and plant matter on their digestive pH levels. Normally, canine stomach acid is about 4-times more acidic than human stomach acid but the theory goes that the introduction of these non-species appropriate foods to their diet has effectively "watered down" the acidity in the stomachs of dogs fed commercial food.

If this is true, and I have no reason to believe it isn't even though I've never been able to confirm it through any scientific research, it's quite possible that raw fed dogs actually have LESS bacterial and protozoal output in their feces than kibble fed dogs, even if they are sometimes ingesting more. This could be due to the lower pH (higher acidity) in the dog's stomach which kills most of this stuff as it moves through the digestive process.

I've inquired here before about any science or research behind this in this thread from last year.

http://dogfoodchat.com/forum/raw-feeding/1857-stomach-acid-ph-raw-fed-dogs.html

As far as I know there isn't any, but it all started because I noticed that my two dogs, which used to pick up every parasite on the planet when they were on kibble, haven't had a single episode of this since being on raw. I can't help but think that even through they may still be ingesting these organisms, since we go to the mountains a lot and they play in and drink a lot of stream and lake water, the organisms are no longer surviving in the harsh, natural environment of their guts. 

I have nothing to back this up. It's just a curious observation I've made about my own dogs. But I'd like to think there is something to it.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

JayJayisme said:


> On the topic of Salmonella in stools, a theory (and that's all it is, a theory) has been bandied about in the raw community that kibble-fed dogs do not have the same natural level of acidity in their stomach acid as raw fed or wild dogs do due to the effect of carbs, grains, and plant matter on their digestive pH levels. Normally, canine stomach acid is about 4-times more acidic than human stomach acid but the theory goes that the introduction of these non-species appropriate foods to their diet has effectively "watered down" the acidity in the stomachs of dogs fed commercial food.
> 
> If this is true, and I have no reason to believe it isn't even though I've never been able to confirm it through any scientific research, it's quite possible that raw fed dogs actually have LESS bacterial and protozoal output in their feces than kibble fed dogs, even if they are sometimes ingesting more. This could be due to the lower pH (higher acidity) in the dog's stomach which kills most of this stuff as it moves through the digestive process.
> 
> ...


i think your observation is very similar to the one i am experiencing now


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## BrownStandardPoodle (Aug 22, 2010)

Thanks Magic (I wish I could see your response when I am replying, I can't remember if that's your right call name. Anyway - yes, I saw those and an going by them. Those are really good sheets on what to do. Very specific. I like that!!

Thanks next poster (again, which I could see your response when I am replying - can't remember your call name). That's a very good observation. Especially the part about your dogs contracting less illnesses now.

I just finished feeding my dogs. I feel like I don't want to touch them because of germs. My daughter (14) is petting the dogs, saying don't be ridiculous mom. I'm sure I'll start feeling better about that soon.:redface:

My black dog only ate two 2 inch pieces of chicken back. I had to cut it for her, since she only licked them, then looked at me. I'm wondering if she's just not sure what to do or if it's her teeth. The vet (last time there) said that her teeth were very worn down. I guess it could be from all of the nylabone powerful chewer bones I got her. Her teeth might hurt? 

My brown dog loves raw food and chews those backs down like there's no tomorrow. He's about a year and a half old and still has nice white teeth. 

Well, see how it goes tomorrow!! :smile:

Carol


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

BrownStandardPoodle said:


> My black dog only ate two 2 inch pieces of chicken back. I had to cut it for her, since she only licked them, then looked at me.


Don't cut them for her. You aren't doing her a favor. She will eventually figure out how to eat them on her own. The more you help her the slower her learning process will be. Give her the chicken back, step back, and leave her alone. Don't hover over her. It will only make her nervous.



> The vet (last time there) said that her teeth were very worn down. I guess it could be from all of the nylabone powerful chewer bones I got her. Her teeth might hurt?


If she still chews on Nylabones, they are ok. :smile:


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## BrownStandardPoodle (Aug 22, 2010)

Hey, I just figured out the quick reply function!!! Yeah for me!! 

Anyway... Okay I won't cut them and I won't hover (yes, I've been hovering and even trying to put the food in her mouth. Yes..I know...I'll stop. LOL)

Do you touch your dogs face? I can't seem to do that anymore. I keep thinking of the germs. I can touch their faces after may 3 hours after they have eaten. But I think of the germs while I'm doing it. I even tie their ears up with a pony tail holder while they eat. Please reassure me on this touching the dogs' faces and paws (when they hold their food). Or should I just touch their backs. My husband and kids think I'm crazy about this germ thing. They say to trust you guys. So please tell me something good about this aspect so that I can relax a bit more. 

Thank you, thank you, thank you!!!

It's really funny to see my brown poodle try to eat the food that my black one won't eat. He is just SO eager.

Carol


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

you can call me Re, Carol...

in the beginning, i saw my dogs as one gigunda germ field....it gets less and less, at least for me...

my malia didn't know what to do with raw, so she circled it, left it, sniffed it, looked at me like i was the crazy one...and i hovered, too.

i found the more i hovered...the harder it was for her to do anything. and i figured out that i was making HER nervous...so i stepped back, started my mental twenty minute timer....and within 24 hours, she was eating chicken backs....

the pug on the other hand, tried to swallow his whole because, well, he IS a pug and he does dance with food 

fast forward....six months later...they, to my complete and utter amazement and joy...have figured it out all by themselves...

it took a while, but they kiss, lick, snuggle....

every time you kiss a child, a husband, a friend.....think about the germs on their skin, their lips.....

as time goes by, their teeth, jaws, and necks get stronger. what my pug couldn't eat, he now eats easily in regard to boney food.....if your dogs have gingivitis, feeding them chicken backs should clear that up pretty quickly...

i don't feed nylabones...and i am not so sure they are necessary...but for now, you have to do what's comfortable for you...

i don't know that i would let one dog eat the other's leftovers....simply because you don't want one to get fat LOL...


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

BrownStandardPoodle said:


> Do you touch your dogs face?


Yes and I don't think anything about it.



> I can touch their faces after may 3 hours after they have eaten.


You can touch them the instant they get through eating.



> But I think of the germs while I'm doing it. I even tie their ears up with a pony tail holder while they eat. Please reassure me on this touching the dogs' faces and paws (when they hold their food). Or should I just touch their backs.


It's fine to touch their faces anytime. This meat isn't nearly as full of germs as you think.



> My husband and kids think I'm crazy about this germ thing. They say to trust you guys. So please tell me something good about this aspect so that I can relax a bit more.


I'm with your husband and kids on this. :smile: I've been raw feeding for 8 years and just never think about germs unless the meat is REAL rotten when I feed it and I have a sneaky little feeling you won't feed meat like that. :smile:


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

maybe not so much touching whilst they are eating...

right after? big hugs and sloppy wet kisses, because they did so well.

take a book into wherever they are eating and pretend to read.

if they feel your tension, and they will.....it will make them tense...we don't want tense.

have a martini whilst you feed them...because believe me, they need no reassurance....remember, this is a challenge to them they've never had before....kibble is certainly no challenge. this is...makes them think...

watch their faces as they figure it out.....when their light bulbs go on, it's better than your kid graduating from college.


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## Jodysmom (Jan 9, 2010)

Carol, 

I am so excited that you are following the advice of DFC's and going with the chicken backs. Like I said before, I had a horrible transition with my dog Jody. With some help from the people here I started with chicken backs and I was able to drop the probiotics, pumpkin, and other supplements. It is so nice to be able to feed a whole raw diet without the needed to add other things. I bet since you are introducing raw nice and slow and following a plan, you won't see diarrhea and the need to supplement. 

I agree with the advice to not watch or hover over your dog. Jody has been on raw for a month now and if I watch her she just watches me. I have to give her permission to eat and then purposely look somewhere else. 

Tami


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## BrownStandardPoodle (Aug 22, 2010)

Thanks Re - it's so cute to think of your pug so enamored with the raw food. Snorty piggy-like. PUgs are soooo cute!! No...I won't let Toffee (brown dog) eat Jellybean's (black dog) food. With kibble, they would eat as much as they wanted, and then walk away. They never overate. But I think Toffee would just gorge on the raw - he likes it soooo much!! Big sloppy kisses - it may take awhile...but I'll get there.

RFD - no, you're right LOL - I won't be feeding rotten meat any time soon. Okay, I can do this!! Deep breath. 

Tami - Yes, the slow way is working - no more diarrhea!!! They had diarrhea all summer - now it's gone!!!! Halleluiah!!

I'm off to feed them - and I won't hover. I'll give them their food and go visit with my roses (whilst keeping an eye on Toffee so he doesn't eat Jelly's food.)

Thank you guys so much!!! What a support team you all are!!!

Carol


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## BrownStandardPoodle (Aug 22, 2010)

Well, it went well! I went outside with their bowls, made them sit and wait, gave them their food and walked away with my rose clippers like I always do - no biggie, nothing new going on, business as usual, pay no attention to the man behind the curtain, etc. So Jelly looked at me, then got her food and ate it. No big deal for her!!! Big deal for me!!! Poos are still great. I've been petting my dogs - still a little queasy about it, but trying to get over that. I threw the ball for them after they ate, but I wore a glove. I always used to open their mouths to look at their teeth and to show them that I can do anything with them that I want to do - but now I don't want to do that. I am curious as to how her gums look - but I guess after one raw bone feeding they're not going to change much LOL. I am going to get better about the germaphobia, but I'll give myself a few days. LOL

I'm very positive about the change over. I'm very glad I'm doing this. Thanks for all of your help and advice (especially about the germs). 

Carol


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## Jodysmom (Jan 9, 2010)

Carol I am a germ phobe too! When my kids come home from school I have them wash their hands and dry them with paper towels. I know everyone says that makes them less resistant to illnesses but old habits die hard. With Jody first started eatomg raw meat I made the kids stay away from her for a half hour and I wiped her face with a baby wipe. Now after months of raw feeding (I took a kibble break in the middle) it doesn't worry me at all. Everyone can tell you it is no big deal, but like with me, time will help you get over any fears. You'll find no one gets sick..kids stay healthy..no food poisoning. Then you'll calm down. 

Do you want to hear what really helped me get over the germ fear? I read a book called Raw Meaty Bones by Tom Lionsdale about how kibble sits in a dog's stomach/intestines for up to 14 hours all the while allowing bacteria to grow. Then these stools come out that are just foul. Compare that to raw food, it comes out in 4-5 hrs. and there is no odor. Think about it! It really made me start thinking differently. Also, when we took our kibble break my dog got so much plaque and bacteria over her gums. I felt like her mouth was breeding ground for bacteria. Now I think of kibble as unclean and raw as clean. I think you'll start feeling that way too.

Tami


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

I'm glad that today was a success! Its good to hear all of you making positive progress about the whole situation.

Bacteria are everywhere, even the nasty ones. They are particularly abundant in the soil in your rose gardens, even the nasty ones. There is nothing you can do to avoid bacteria in the world. They are literally everywhere. Even sterilized instruments for surgery have an expiration date because bacteria are capable of infiltrating most places. Its just a fact of life. 

Be clean about handling raw meats, it never hurts to do that. But don't be afraid to pet and love on your dogs now that they eat raw. There is actually a comparable amount of bacteria in kibble than raw. Were you as paranoid as before when feeding kibble?


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

BrownStandardPoodle said:


> Well, it went well! I went outside with their bowls, made them sit and wait, gave them their food and walked away with my rose clippers like I always do - no biggie, nothing new going on, business as usual, pay no attention to the man behind the curtain, etc. So Jelly looked at me, then got her food and ate it. No big deal for her!!! Big deal for me!!! Poos are still great. I've been petting my dogs - still a little queasy about it, but trying to get over that. I threw the ball for them after they ate, but I wore a glove. I always used to open their mouths to look at their teeth and to show them that I can do anything with them that I want to do - but now I don't want to do that. I am curious as to how her gums look - but I guess after one raw bone feeding they're not going to change much LOL. I am going to get better about the germaphobia, but I'll give myself a few days. LOL
> 
> I'm very positive about the change over. I'm very glad I'm doing this. Thanks for all of your help and advice (especially about the germs).
> 
> Carol


you will get over it, carol, because you want to.....and that's a powerful motivation......isn't it?

in the months to come, you'll also see the value to your dogs.....

plus, if you think about it...there are germs all around us...on our skin....you do sleep in bed at night, right?


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## BrownStandardPoodle (Aug 22, 2010)

This evening I started petting their faces again. Small victories.

For the evening meal, Jellybean (black poodle) are nothing. She picked up her chicken backs and moved them around the yard and licked them. Toffee ate his (crunch, crunch), then started for hers. So I picked up her meal and put it back in the fridge - all covered in grass! My goodness Toffee is just 'in gastronomical love' with raw chicken. Everytime I go to the fridge he follows me on high alert. I bought a scale today too. 

I have a question - 
Toffee is ready, according to the program - 3 days of raw chicken backs - to start on the chicken quarters. But, Jelly is not - she's only eaten one meal of chicken backs. I'd like to keep them on the same food so it's easier. Should I bump up her schedule or slow his down and keep him on just backs until she's done 3 days of chicken backs?

Also what exactly are chicken quarters - I'm assuming they're the chicken leg plus the upper part connected to the chicken leg. Am I right? Hopefully, cause I just went out and bought a bunch of them.

Carol
Thank you everyone!!


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

BrownStandardPoodle said:


> This evening I started petting their faces again. Small victories.


Cool :smile:



> For the evening meal, Jellybean (black poodle) are nothing. She picked up her chicken backs and moved them around the yard and licked them. Toffee ate his (crunch, crunch), then started for hers. So I picked up her meal and put it back in the fridge - all covered in grass!


Cool. Don't feed Jellybean anything between meals. She needs to get hungry enough to work on the chicken backs.



> I have a question -
> Toffee is ready, according to the program - 3 days of raw chicken backs - to start on the chicken quarters.


Thats not my program. My program says a week on chicken backs.



> But, Jelly is not - she's only eaten one meal of chicken backs. I'd like to keep them on the same food so it's easier. Should I bump up her schedule or slow his down and keep him on just backs until she's done 3 days of chicken backs?


You will still feed chicken backs even after quarters are begun. You will alternate meals between backs and quarters for a week.



> Also what exactly are chicken quarters - I'm assuming they're the chicken leg plus the upper part connected to the chicken leg. Am I right?


Yep, you are right. :smile:


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

you petted their faces...YAY! one small step for Carol...one giant leap for raw!


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## Pattydon (Aug 4, 2010)

I would stick with chicken quarters or backs for a couple weeks then start slowly with other proteins.


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## BrownStandardPoodle (Aug 22, 2010)

Okay - a week on chicken backs. I'm just getting my carpets cleaned...so I want to do this slowly. Yeah, I know, I should probably wait for the carpets to be cleaned. But... we're having my mother-in-law for a visit. I had to get them done now!!!  Hey, RFD - just wanted you to know that your avatar picture is part of what's keeping me going on the raw. I think - ack!! what am I doing feeding raw. Then I see your chilled, laid back, happy expression and I calm down. So thanks!!! Of course everyone else on this forum is the other part. Then there's another part which says - the diarrhea is gone!!!! This is working!!!

Thanks Re and Pattydon!! Your support is awesome!!

Carol


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## dogmom (Aug 14, 2010)

Can you tell me more about the ST-C, I'd like to get some and have done a google search but can't seem to find anything. Thanks.


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## Jodysmom (Jan 9, 2010)

Carol,

I have been feeding raw for a month and just added pork 2 days ago. So there really is no hurry. I imagine you were feeding them the same kibble for some time. 

In regards to what to start with Re and I have both had excellent experience with chicken backs over chicken quarters. It may have something to do with the high bone content. 

Tami


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

between RFD and natalie (danemama) my dogs are happily getting ready to have their very first kidney...

unless i mess up....the dogs are fine...and i'm still my own worst enemy, but each time, i learn something new....about my dogs, about me...

very interesting process, both objectively and subjectively.

my dogs would be on a home cooked diet if not for RFD, Danemama and this forum....


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## 3RingCircus (May 24, 2010)

BrownStandardPoodle said:


> Hey, I just figured out the quick reply function!!! Yeah for me!!
> 
> Anyway... Okay I won't cut them and I won't hover (yes, I've been hovering and even trying to put the food in her mouth. Yes..I know...I'll stop. LOL)


My youngest puppy Barnum refused to eat most of his food when I fed him the first time in the morning. Well, by that night he scarfed up his food acting as if he was starving. Now he'll try anything I give him. My older puppy Bailey loved the diet from the get go. He quickly gained five unneeded pounds which he has since lost.



> Do you touch your dogs face? I can't seem to do that anymore. I keep thinking of the germs.


My puppies are very affectionate and frequently kiss me after they eat. Barnum is a real lover boy and licks me all over my face. It's been three months since we started raw feeding and I don't have some awful disease from his affection.



> It's really funny to see my brown poodle try to eat the food that my black one won't eat. He is just SO eager.
> 
> Carol


Watch out that his eagerness doesn't get him fat. Bailey is the same way, a raw food chow hound.

Bailey scolded my husband this morning for not getting his food fast enough. Beef was on the menu. LOL Bailey loves beef.


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## BrownStandardPoodle (Aug 22, 2010)

dogmom - I just looked at the container, and there's a website -- 'On The Trail': Home - it's from Canmore, Alberta, Canada. You're only supposed to use it as needed. One dose and both of their diarrhea was gone.

Tami - yeah, they're still with the chicken backs. Toffee crunches them down in minutes. He doesn't wolf them down. He definitely chews them really well - but he still gets them gone in mere minutes. Jelly ate 2 yesterday and 3 chicken backs today - but she takes forever. She licks them and carries them off, then licks them some more, then takes forever chewing them. I'd say that she ate 3 backs in 15 minutes. Whereas his were gone in about 5 minutes. 

CArol


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## BrownStandardPoodle (Aug 22, 2010)

Re - Yes, I'm following their directions to the letter. Things are going well.  

Although I do have a question. My large brown dog will eat his very quickly, so I have to stay in the yard with them while I feed them to make sure the piggo doesn't get her food too. Okay...I know that's good, because I can check to see that they aren't chocking etc. BUT... is it okay to feed them once/day instead of twice/day. I think Toffee would like that better. He wants more when we stop. He could eat a lot more in one go. 

Also...His ideal weight is 85lbs. With the diarrhea he has unfortunately slimmed down to 75 lbs. Should I feed him for his idea weight or for his current weight. I've been giving him about 2 lbs (finally got a scale) which I think is a good amount for 80 lbs. How much would I feed him for 85 lbs?

3-ring - No, he would love to eat more, but I limit him to 2 lbs. Pretty soon we're going to be starting our fall/winter exercising program. We'll ramp up to 2 hours at the off-leash area walking (chasing balls) through this gorgeous naturalized area in the city. So then, would I feed him as if he was a 90 lb dog or 100 lb dog because of all of the extra energy he's getting.

Hmmmm... maybe I should have started this as a new thread. 

As to Bailey - that's so cute - Toffee will do anything for food too! He immediately goes into his sit position and then to his sit back position (I trained him for that for him to say please) without my asking. And one time, I took them to their fence (poop) area, and as I was walking back to where I had put the extra chicken backs I was going to put back in the house - I saw him scarfing them down. The piggie!!

Thanks!
Carol
By the way - I adore Leonbergers. They are such beautiful, gorgeous LARGE dogs. How many do you have?


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Feeding one meal per day is just fine. This allows you to feed larger meaty bones. We only feed our dogs once daily.

You want to feed enough to maintain his ideal weight. For 85 pounds that would be somewhere between 1.7 to 2.5 pounds. You may need to adjust this some, as this is the typical guideline of 2-3% of their weight.


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## BrownStandardPoodle (Aug 22, 2010)

Thanks Natalie!!

That's what I'm going to do then! Once per day will be much better for us. And 2.5 lbs is what I'll be aiming for since he needs to regain weight and since he'll be ramping up his exercise.

I have learned sooo much!!
Carol


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

BrownStandardPoodle said:


> BUT... is it okay to feed them once/day instead of twice/day. I think Toffee would like that better. He wants more when we stop. He could eat a lot more in one go.


If you have been feeding raw for 2 or 3 months and their stools are solid, absolutely yes if you want to feed once a day, go for it. BUT I don't think these are true. If I remember right, you have only been feeding raw a week or so and stools are something of a problem so if that's true, you need to wait until they are better adjusted to digesting real food.



> Should I feed him for his idea weight or for his current weight.


Ideal weight.



> I've been giving him about 2 lbs (finally got a scale) which I think is a good amount for 80 lbs. How much would I feed him for 85 lbs?


Same thing. If they are still having diarrhea, don't increase the amount at all.


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## BrownStandardPoodle (Aug 22, 2010)

Hi RFD

Yes, my dogs have had major problems with diarrhea and are still thin from weight loss. Yes, I've been feeding raw for less than a week. Thankfully their stools are great now. I have no words to show how HAPPY I am not to have to worry about diarrhea. The raw food has totaly gotten rid of it. So I will wait for a few months - then I'll ask what you think. I know nothing; you all know everything!!! 

So thank you!!! I will increase the amount they're eating, since there's no diarrhea and he's still hungry. My black dog is gradually building up her appetite. She's up to 3 chicken backs/day. Tomorrow I will try 4 - which may be the right amount for her. I'll have to weigh to check it out. Her ideal weight is 54 lbs. So I think that's about 1 1/2lbs.

Thank!

Carol


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## 3RingCircus (May 24, 2010)

BrownStandardPoodle said:


> By the way - I adore Leonbergers. They are such beautiful, gorgeous LARGE dogs. How many do you have?


We have two as it shows in my avatar picture, Bailey and Barnum. That's Bailey leading Barnum around on the leash indoors. We told Bailey we'd get him a puppy. He acts like a mom, dad and big brother to Barnum.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

BrownStandardPoodle said:


> Hi RFD
> 
> Yes, my dogs have had major problems with diarrhea and are still thin from weight loss. Yes, I've been feeding raw for less than a week. Thankfully their stools are great now. I have no words to show how HAPPY I am not to have to worry about diarrhea. The raw food has totaly gotten rid of it. So I will wait for a few months - then I'll ask what you think. I know nothing; you all know everything!!!
> 
> ...


hey, carol...your enthusiasm is infectious and reminds me of me when i first started....and it actually worked..yay.

my malia did the same thing, by the way.....sniffed suspiciously, walked away, circled it, licked it...she's still a slower eater than bubba...who is my dances with food pug...

i don't have a whole lot of experience...having said that, in the beginning, i think less is more.....they have a whole lot of adapting to do.....both physical and and emotional...it's a whole new world for them and for you...

i know they have weight to gain...but ya know how they say lose it slowly when dieting? well, the same holds true for gaining weight...gain it slowly and they will...week by week, as you add in appropriate foods......gradual is the name of the game...especially after all those runs...

i think you're doing great and i think they're doing great....if you don't want to feed them outside, you can teach them to eat off of a towel....

i never thought i'd be able to do that, but apparently my dogs CAN learn LOL...and it's easier for me to watch them whilst i continue what i have to do....


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## BrownStandardPoodle (Aug 22, 2010)

3-Ring - I had a Leo once. Only for 3 days though. We had just gotten our puppy, and my daughter (3 years old) had just broken her femur right in half (shopping cart accident with her Dad). I thought I could handle the puppy and her, but then I broke my arm in 3 places whilst pushing her in her wheelchair on her way for physiotherapy. I just couldn't deal with the huge amount of stairs going to the back yard for potty breaks, my daughter, oh just everything. (Turns out we have low bone density) So we gave the puppy back to the breeder. Turns out we were allergic anyway -hence the poodles now. I just love big dogs, which is why I have an 85 lb poodle. But I still love Leos!!

Thanks Re - I'm off to start a new thread on just the issues you raised! See you there! 

Carol


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