# Bailey Loves It, Barnum... ugh!



## 3RingCircus (May 24, 2010)

*Bailey Loves It, Barnum... Does Too!*

Bailey, 22 months old, loves his new diet. He's probably wondering why I never gave it to him before this time. I couldn't get the food on the floor fast enough. This morning, I gave him two hindquarters with the leg bones removed (giant breed dog). He gobbled them up. No regurgitation afterwards either.

Barnum, 10 months old, otoh, looked at me as if I had two heads. What is this? After a half and hour of toying with it, he ate some. I took it back and cut it up a little. That seemed to do the trick. Still, Barnum only ate about 1/2 a chicken breast. I think he liked crunching the bones. He's my EPI boy so I have to watch the bone content in his food, at least initially, so that is why I gave him the breast.

I guess it's going to take Barnum a little longer to adjust to his new diet.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Why are you removing the bones? You will see nothing but diarrhea without bones...

It's normal for dogs to not know what to do with raw foods because it's a complete change than what they're used to and may take some time to figure it out. You should just offer the food and leave him alone for 15 minutes. If he doesn't eat it take it up and offer it again at the next meal time. He will eventually become hungry enough to figure it out. If you coax him to eat it that is just teaching him that you will cater to his every whim. Let him figure it out on his own. It won't take long!


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## 3RingCircus (May 24, 2010)

danemama08 said:


> Why are you removing the bones? You will see nothing but diarrhea without bones...
> 
> It's normal for dogs to not know what to do with raw foods because it's a complete change than what they're used to and may take some time to figure it out. You should just offer the food and leave him alone for 15 minutes. If he doesn't eat it take it up and offer it again at the next meal time. He will eventually become hungry enough to figure it out. If you coax him to eat it that is just teaching him that you will cater to his every whim. Let him figure it out on his own. It won't take long!


You misunderstood my post. No bones removed. I simply cut it up some for Barnum.

Well, I need not worry now. After Barnum didn't eat much in the morning yesterday, he porked on the evening meal.

Now both dogs love raw after one day.

I figured they need about 3 pounds RMB each if they max out at 150 pounds a piece. Although Bailey may max out around 140 pounds. He's still fairly active. Barnum is active. Leos become more and more couch potatoes as they reach adulthood. But with Barnum around, Bailey may stay pretty active.

I wouldn't have known they were active puppies as they laid around after dinner satiated and relaxing.

Is it okay for me to take the marrow out of the weight bearing bones and give to my puppies? Or should I wait until they have been on the new diet for a week? After reading another list, big, big, big list on raw feeding, I decided to nix the idea of them gnawing their weight bearing bones at all except to remove the marrow myself. My hubby isn't happy with my decision though. He still thinks they are okay. I keep reminding him, 'They're okay if the puppies are on kibble.'


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Ah I see. But now that they both get what raw is about I wouldn't cut any more bones for them. Glad to hear they are both loving it!

I will say that it's better to start out on the low end of their ideal meal ration. Many dogs get diarrhea in the beginning with being given too much food even though it's an ideal meals worth. If they should be getting 3 pounds a day I would feed them 2 pounds per day the first few days just so their bodies aren't overwhelmed with lots of raw meat. Then slowly add in more meat making sure they always have normal bowel movements, normal activity and no vomiting. There's a chance that your dogs will take to raw with flying colors and not have one hitch in the transition but I would rather not assume that! Keep us posted on their progress!!!


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

3RingCircus said:


> Is it okay for me to take the marrow out of the weight bearing bones and give to my puppies? Or should I wait until they have been on the new diet for a week?


I wouldn't. Marrow contains a lot of fat and fat can cause digestive upset early in the diet. If you have some marrow, freeze it for a month or so then feed it. Don't rush the process. You know what that causes.



> After reading another list, big, big, big list on raw feeding, I decided to nix the idea of them gnawing their weight bearing bones at all except to remove the marrow myself.


Hehe, that hurts my feelings. We say the same thing but you have to go to a BIG BIG BIG list berfore you belive it?? :smile:


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## 3RingCircus (May 24, 2010)

Oops! :redface:

I _am_ removing the leg bone. However, that is what I read you need to do for large breed dogs. Now I've read that it depends. Great. This is confusing. If my puppies gulp their food, then remove it. If they don't keep it. 

Both puppies can down a thigh and leg in about three minutes. I hear and see them crunch and chew the bones before they swallow.

Should I be giving them a whole half of a chicken, minus the wing, instead?


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## 3RingCircus (May 24, 2010)

danemama08 said:


> Ah I see. But now that they both get what raw is about I wouldn't cut any more bones for them. Glad to hear they are both loving it!
> 
> I will say that it's better to start out on the low end of their ideal meal ration. Many dogs get diarrhea in the beginning with being given too much food even though it's an ideal meals worth. If they should be getting 3 pounds a day I would feed them 2 pounds per day the first few days just so their bodies aren't overwhelmed with lots of raw meat. Then slowly add in more meat making sure they always have normal bowel movements, normal activity and no vomiting. There's a chance that your dogs will take to raw with flying colors and not have one hitch in the transition but I would rather not assume that! Keep us posted on their progress!!!


Okay. I did cut back on Bailey's to 2 pounds yesterday. He didn't like that at all. When Barnum ate his noon meal, Bailey had a problem with some bile. So far that is all I've seen so far.

I will cut back on Barnum today to 2 pounds. He's my EPI boy and needs to be fed three times a day.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

3RingCircus said:


> Oops! :redface:
> 
> I _am_ removing the leg bone. However, that is what I read you need to do for large breed dogs. Now I've read that it depends. Great. This is confusing. If my puppies gulp their food, then remove it. If they don't keep it.


I'm curious where exactly you read that....I know that it is said not to give large breed dogs RMBs that they can swallow whole without crunching a few times. But I have never heard or suggested removing the bones from any piece of meat, unless they fall under the "dangerous" criteria (weight bearing or odd shape/cut).



> Both puppies can down a thigh and leg in about three minutes. I hear and see them crunch and chew the bones before they swallow.


If it takes three minutes you're in no dangerous situation. Our Dane pup Akasha has been capable of crunching a chicken leg quarter three or four times and then swallowing taking a total of 30 seconds since she was 4 months old. I would say that your dogs are good chewers! 



> Should I be giving them a whole half of a chicken, minus the wing, instead?


If the wing is attached you don't have to worry about taking it off. Considering they would have to chew it off, it's not a hazard compared to feeding a lone chicken wing. A whole half chicken would make a great meal.



3RingCircus said:


> Okay. I did cut back on Bailey's to 2 pounds yesterday. He didn't like that at all. When Barnum ate his noon meal, Bailey had a problem with some bile. So far that is all I've seen so far.


Feeding him less is just for now, so his body can get used to eating raw foods. Just gradually increase the amount until he is on a good maintenance ration. The bile problem is most likely due to what we refer to here as "hunger pukes" which just means they are hungry. Raw foods only stay in the system for 6-12 hours so they digest it much faster. A newly switched dog is not used to this and so gets hungry faster. Eventually his system will get used to not having a bunch of kibble sitting in there for 12-24 hours and be able to go 12 hours without eating. We only feed our dogs once daily and even go a few days without feeding if we give them a huge meal consisting of several days worth of food in one sitting. We don't ever see hunger pukes since our dogs are experienced raw eaters. Just give it time.



> I will cut back on Barnum today to 2 pounds. He's my EPI boy and needs to be fed three times a day.


This is a good idea as well. Again, gradually increase the amount ad long as you don't see diarrhea or vomiting.

Keep us posted :wink:


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## 3RingCircus (May 24, 2010)

Barnum had an owl pellet early this morning. I wouldn't consider that vomiting, rather regurgitation. Owl pellets, as we jokingly call them, are made up of the stuff Barnum eats which is inedible or pica. This owl pellet was 1/4 of the original ones we used to see. It looked more like a hairball. That's a huge improvement for him. And he lasted 25 days in between owl pellets, the last time 17 days.

I just gave Barnum his lunch. He ate the entire hindquarter with leg bone. No problem. He's definitely a cruncher.


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## 3RingCircus (May 24, 2010)

Wow! Poops are normal. No vomiting. No diarrhea. Puppies are doing well on their whole hindquarters. As of last night the skin is now kept on. Although they weren't sure what to do with the skin at first. Lick, lick, lick and then both grabbed the hindquarter by the skin and tossed it on the floor and chomped away. Success.

Their coats are shinier and softer than before we started.

Also adding salmon oil gelcap in the evenings.

Edit: We decided to include all fat and skin at once and started that today, Sat. 6/5/10. Next after the skin adjustment will be the fat adjustment. Looking forward to just serving up the hindquarters without having to trim anything off.

Barnum is the champion chomping puppy, getting his down in three to five minutes. Bailey's the slower eater, taking five to seven minutes. I actually thought it would be the opposite.

Barnum's teeth are already whiter than when we began four days ago. Bailey's aren't far behind.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

we added alaskan salmon oil gelcaps from costco.....really helped their fur....and they take a glucosamine/chondroitin tablet from costco...which they eat like a treats...

although i've now read that bones have glucosamine/chondroitin in them (can't remember where) so i may be feeding them the tablets unnecessarily.....i have to look further...

i also noticed the whiteness of their teeth....within a few days. i thought it was me and my enthusiasm...apparently, i'm not the only one.

isn't this a hoot?


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