# Carbohydrates?



## Mlaperformancedogs (Aug 28, 2009)

I have done a lot of research on food. But one question I have is, are carbs bad for dogs. A flyball teamate of mine keeps saying to the other teammates that carbs are bad. I never thought they were that they were essential, in moderation. Also she says that protein is best when in fact I tell her too much protein is not good. What do you all think?


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## rannmiller (Jun 27, 2008)

oh boy, a can of worms has just been opened! 

I would say that carbs are pretty much useless to a dog since their bodies aren't designed to digest them, so pretty much all carbs do is make your dog fatter and their poop larger. 

All dogs need to survive and thrive is a good diet of mostly meat, some bone, and some organ.


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

Mlaperformancedogs said:


> I have done a lot of research on food. But one question I have is, are carbs bad for dogs. A flyball teamate of mine keeps saying to the other teammates that carbs are bad. I never thought they were that they were essential, in moderation. Also she says that protein is best when in fact I tell her too much protein is not good. What do you all think?


Dogs have no need for carbs. As carnivores, they utilize fat the same way we utilize carbs. Check around. You won't find any minimum requirement listed for carbs for dogs.


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## Mlaperformancedogs (Aug 28, 2009)

Thanks, didn't mean to open a can of worms.  but it makes much more sense now the way they digest it. I didn't even think of I that way. I appreciate your responses.


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## rannmiller (Jun 27, 2008)

Haha it wasn't quite the can of worms we normally get over such questions. Maybe tomorrow when the kibble feeders are up and about they can comment further. But as RFD said, they utilize fat like we utilize carbs because, alas, dogs are not humans after all :smile:

Thanks for asking though, we're always happy to help.


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## SuZQuzie (Nov 26, 2009)

RawFedDogs said:


> Dogs have no need for carbs. As carnivores, they utilize fat the same way we utilize carbs. Check around. You won't find any minimum requirement listed for carbs for dogs.


Incorrect. They use protein similarly to how we use CHOs. 

A few studies now have shown that dogs fed a no-lipid diet only showed vitamin E deficiency during the period of the one experiment and Vitamin A and E deficiencies in another one.

ETA: If it was true that dogs utilized lipids similarly to how we use CHOs, then why is the minimum requirement of fat only 5% and protein is 22%?


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## rannmiller (Jun 27, 2008)

SuZQuzie said:


> Incorrect.
> ETA: If it was true that dogs utilized lipids similarly to how we use CHOs, then why is the minimum requirement of fat only 5% and protein is 22%?


Because the minimum requirements are set by people who think dogs are omnivores?


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

SuZQuzie said:


> Incorrect. They use protein similarly to how we use CHOs.


Nope, what I said is correct. Protein is used to build muscle and fat is used for energy. We use carbs for energy.



> A few studies now have shown that dogs fed a no-lipid diet only showed vitamin E deficiency during the period of the one experiment and Vitamin A and E deficiencies in another one.


Don't know how that could happen. Vit A is found abunduntly in eggs and organ meat like liver and heart. Vit E is found in various organs.



> ETA: If it was true that dogs utilized lipids similarly to how we use CHOs, then why is the minimum requirement of fat only 5% and protein is 22%?


Cause thats all they need. You are talking "MINIMUM", not "RECOMENDED". So far you haven't answered the question about what is the minimum requirement for carbs.


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## SuZQuzie (Nov 26, 2009)

RawFedDogs said:


> Nope, what I said is correct. Protein is used to build muscle and fat is used for energy. We use carbs for energy.


Is fat energy? Yes. Is it their main source of energy? No.





> Don't know how that could happen. Vit A is found abunduntly in eggs and organ meat like liver and heart. Vit E is found in various organs.


What in the world are you talking about? I mention a no-lipid diet and you tout off vitamin sources?





> Cause thats all they need. You are talking "MINIMUM", not "RECOMENDED". So far you haven't answered the question about what is the minimum requirement for carbs.


It was never asked of me. There is no minimum requirement for CHOs.


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## SuZQuzie (Nov 26, 2009)

rannmiller said:


> Because the minimum requirements are set by people who think dogs are omnivores?


What do protein and lipid requirements have to do with dogs being or not being omnivores?


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

SuZQuzie said:


> What do protein and lipid requirements have to do with dogs being or not being omnivores?


I think the fact that there is NO minimum for CHO's but there IS a minimum of fat and protein for dogs answers the question plain and simple. If CHO's were a necessary component to a dogs diet they would be omnivores. Since there is none, that says to me they have no need for them and must carnivores.


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## JayJayisme (Aug 2, 2009)

Back to the original question, I think it's no small coincidence that in our "modern world" dogs now suffer from obesity and diabetes much like humans. Was this a problem 100 years ago? I do a lot of historical research and I often come across photos taken 100 years ago of people with their dogs and I've yet to see what looks like a fat or overweight dog in any of those images where today I see obese dogs all over the place.

Same with humans. All the "modern" processed and manufactured foods we eat have created a diabetes epidemic in this country. I walk through a supermarket and can hardly find anything I will eat. I usually go from the produce section, to meat, to dairy and I avoid the rest of the store. It's all crap, just like the pet food aisle at Walmart. 

Today people feed their dogs processed and manufactured food (kibble) that is stuffed with fillers that are generally high in carbs. You will kill yourself with a steady diet of carb-heavy foods and you will kill your dogs with it too in my opinion.


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

Boy does this topic hit close to home. 
Carbohydrates are absolutely NOT necessary for ANY dog. Ever. 
I went through about a 7 month battle with my Corgi. Constant diarrhea, extreme weight loss no matter how much or what I fed him. A couple thousand dollars in tests later, we discovered that he had a type of SIBO that is triggered by carbohydrates in the diet, which are unable to be used by his body, and just kind of "hang out" rather than pass. 
While not every dog will have this problem, and most dog will do seemingly fine with carbs in the diet, the whole experience atught me a few things about my dog. 

1. Carbohydrates are almost on the same level as toxins for a carnivore. 
2. Feeding a diet that is not natural to his species is asking for serious trouble.
3. Carbohydrates are the root of MANY problems, not just this rare one, so why risk it at all? Cancer, diabetes, SIBO... no, thanks. 
4. While I feel that SOME dog food companies really do care about the welare of dogs, NONE care about them as much as they do their bottom line. Carbs are cheap. Meat is expensive. 

Unfortunately there is no such thing as a dog food with the appropriate carb content. (zero) While I had interest in raw for some time, I kept putting it off and putting it off because I thought kibble was "working" so why change it? Then the vet looked at me and told me if we don't intervene, I would lose my Corgi... my absolute best friend in the world. While the vet opted to put him on an extreme steroid treatment as well as an extreme high dose of atibiotics that would affect his quality of life for the worse. I opted to simply remove the carbs, and after TWO days he was already improved incredibly. I raw feed two of the three dogs living with my. My Corgi and my Boxer both eat nothing but raw meat, bones, and organs from the grocery store intended for human consumption. Even though my Boxer never had health issues to begin with, I see such an incredible difference in both of them verses kibble fed dogs.


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## Jordan S. (Feb 2, 2010)

Actually I think your friend is the one with the right idea. The key with high protein food is how much you feed. You can't treat it like purina dog chow. High protein keeps my dog in great shape. 

And healthy dogs have no dietary need for carbohydrate. There are some rumors even in nutrition forums that pregnant dogs need a bit of it though but I'm not sure whether or not this is true.


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