# Innova EVO



## Echo! (Sep 7, 2008)

Does Anybody else here Feed Innova EVO? It has got to be the best dog food I've found yet besides feeding RAW.


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## BoxerMommie (Jun 26, 2008)

Yes, but the high protein content is not recommended for my girl and it gave my boy HORRIBLE diarrhea. It isn't good for all dogs, no different than any other food, one size doesn't fit all.


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## chowder (Sep 7, 2008)

I tried my Lhasa on the Evo venison because she has severe allergies to anything except Venison. It gave her horrible diarrhea! My husband said they should have named it EVIL, and banned it from the house. I would like to try my puppy on it when he gets older. He eats Innova puppy food and it took him about 2 weeks to get used to eating that. We had to mix pumpkin with it for the first week as we transitioned him to it from the Science diet the rescue group had him on. He will still get a bit of diarhea and gas on the Innova if I feed him too much so I'm concerned how the Evo will affect him.


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

Many people try to feed EVO like it's just another kibble and it's not. It's very high protein, high fat, almost all meat, high calorie, very low carbohydrate, grainless kibble. You don't feed it like a high carb, low protein, low fat, grain based cereal.

You dog needs much less EVO than other kibbles. If you MUST feed your dog kibble, there is no better for ANY dog. You just have to feed it different.

EVO is touted and "next best thing to a raw diet". Why feed the next best thing when you can feed the best thing? :smile:


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## BoxerMommie (Jun 26, 2008)

RawFedDogs said:


> Many people try to feed EVO like it's just another kibble and it's not. It's very high protein, high fat, almost all meat, high calorie, very low carbohydrate, grainless kibble. You don't feed it like a high carb, low protein, low fat, grain based cereal.
> 
> You dog needs much less EVO than other kibbles. If you MUST feed your dog kibble, there is no better for ANY dog. You just have to feed it different.
> 
> EVO is touted and "next best thing to a raw diet". Why feed the next best thing when you can feed the best thing? :smile:


This is not true for all dogs. There is no one hard and fast rule for all dogs. Anyone that has dogs with medical problems should consult a nutritionist and make sure to have blood work done and be very careful with high protein kibbles.


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## BabyHusky (Jul 21, 2008)

i've heard the same regarding EVO. I had a nice chat with a raw feeding man at the local feed store and he had tried EVO and apparently it did not do well for his dogs, we eventually went to raw and he said his dogs had trouble at first (of course) but now they are perfect.

EVO seems to have negative reactions to a lot of dogs...id be sure before you try it.


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## rannmiller (Jun 27, 2008)

BabyHusky said:


> we eventually went to raw and he said his dogs had trouble at first (of course) but now they are perfect.


Just for the record, raw does not always mean it will cause trouble for your dogs to switch them over. My dogs haven't ever had any trouble with raw, no explosive diarrhea, vomiting, etc.


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## Brownie (Jul 21, 2008)

I fed my dog one of the sample packs from the store and he did just fine with it (DRY "ancestral diet") he's a 8# Chihuahua I'm gonna keep him on the regular Innova with a mix of canned/dry he seems to like that food a lot.


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

BoxerMommie said:


> This is not true for all dogs. There is no one hard and fast rule for all dogs. Anyone that has dogs with medical problems should consult a nutritionist and make sure to have blood work done and be very careful with high protein kibbles.


The problem with protein in most kibble is that it's a mostly plant based protein and too much of it can cause problems in dogs. Animal based proteins never cause a problem unless too much is fed in a meal. Dogs were designed to digest animal based protein and do it very well. 

The problem with most canine nutritionists is that they know and understand what they work with mostly, which is regular kibble with its plant based protien. Many of them don't understand the difference.

EVO is fine to feed any dog. By far the greatest percentage of protein in EVO is meat based. The only dogs I know of that have problems with EVO are dogs who are fed the same amount of EVO as they were fed regular kibble. Feed half the amount of EVO and it will all work out.

Don't forget, EVO is "NEXT best thing .... " :smile:


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## couq (Oct 25, 2008)

I feed EVO to my 60 lbs. lab/pointer mix and he gobbles it up. He's had no problems at all even when first switched. The quantity of his poop is less and way more solid than when he was eating Science Diet which the shelter that I adopted him from was feeding him (it was yellow and very soft).


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## Jacksie2006 (Jun 23, 2008)

I have my dog on EVO and have had no problems at all.


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## PeanutsMommy (Dec 7, 2008)

i had my American Pit Bull Terrier on nutro as a puppy and he did HORRIBLE so i switched him at 5 months old to blue wilderness and had no problems then oe day i got a sample of evo and Peanut LOVES it he gets excited when he gets it so i am thinking of feeding him evo exclusivly. i didnt have any trouble with the change at all. in fact, i seen so many improvements in my boy that i would never give my dog now or future dogs low protein grain filled diet. other then Evo i would feed raw once i felt comfortable that i could provide a complete balanced meal until then i will feed the next best thing to raw...evo


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

I've gone through the continual diarrhea "circle of life", with my bull terriers trying to find the right ratios of protein etc. Finally, Innova was the dry kibble that they were able to eat without too much problems, but the specialty food store did try to get me to feed them EVO, my dogs wouldn't touch it. Sooooooooo, different tastes for different dogs.
I have to say they seem to be completely diarrhea free, and love to eat now that they are being fed raw.


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## rannmiller (Jun 27, 2008)

Good thing you learned quickly that Nutro was no good for your pup! Sounds like your food choices just keep getting better. If you're really interested in feeding raw and you have any questions, you can always check out the raw section and/or read link in the signature on Rawfeddogs' posts. He has a great website on how to make switching to and feeding raw very simple: http://www.skylarzack.com/rawfeeding.htm


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## claybuster (Dec 18, 2008)

I don't see how EVO is anything close to a carnivore type feed, and I really don't how it could be the next best thing to feeding raw. A lot of marketing in there. Looking at the ingredient list, I see plenty what I would consider non-species appropriate IMO. Another point, I think by going grain free you would hope to escape fiber, but you notice the fiber from grain replaced with the fiber from plant matter. That would be another red flag IMO in regards to the carnivore theme. I have no doubts that those who use it maybe very pleased with the results, I simply question the carnivore approach to some of the ingredients and how it can possible be anything close to feeding raw. Then again, there are plenty of these modern raw commercial diets offering plant matter and vegetables as well. My conclusion would be it falls short of being carnivore but rather omnivore style feeding, and IMO clearly falls short of and not even close to being in the same league as raw.


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## ChattyCathy (Nov 22, 2008)

I recently transitioned over to EVO about 3 wks ago. I've also recently lowered the amount they are eating. My large dog is having more problems w/her stool than my small dog. The stool starts out soft solid than becomes diarhea. I'm going to keep on it for a couple more weeks and then I'm going to have to switch to something not as high protein if the soft stool continues. They were eating a Salmon, Sweet Potato kibble before this and had no problems as I had to switch them to that to stop their soft stools prior to the salmon. Anyone, have any suggestions with something not as high protetin based? Thx.


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## zomo (Nov 24, 2008)

ChattyCathy said:


> I recently transitioned over to EVO about 3 wks ago. I've also recently lowered the amount they are eating. My large dog is having more problems w/her stool than my small dog. The stool starts out soft solid than becomes diarhea. I'm going to keep on it for a couple more weeks and then I'm going to have to switch to something not as high protein if the soft stool continues. They were eating a Salmon, Sweet Potato kibble before this and had no problems as I had to switch them to that to stop their soft stools prior to the salmon. Anyone, have any suggestions with something not as high protetin based? Thx.


Just wondering why you think it is the high protein that is causing the soft stools?


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## ChattyCathy (Nov 22, 2008)

zomo said:


> Just wondering why you think it is the high protein that is causing the soft stools?


Not sure. I'm new at the nutrition thing and just based on my readings here it seems IMO that when a dog is fed more protein they may not be able to digest it as well and my large dog is prone to loose stools. PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong. I'm trying to feed based on what I learn but I want to learn it right. Thx.


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## LoveNewfies (Jun 18, 2008)

Quite often, soft stools when on a high protein kibble are caused by over feeding.


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

claybuster said:


> I don't see how EVO is anything close to a carnivore type feed, and I really don't how it could be the next best thing to feeding raw. A lot of marketing in there. Looking at the ingredient list, I see plenty what I would consider non-species appropriate IMO.


If I HAD to feed kibble, EVO or Orijen would be what I would feed. They are not exactly a carnivore diet but they are much closer than any other kibble I've found. Much more meat and much less carbs then any of the other brands. It's difficult to know that just by looking at the ingredient list because they don't list the amount of inappropriate ingredients but if you look at the nutrient list it will become more evident that these 2 kibbles have much more meat and less carbs.


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

ChattyCathy said:


> Not sure. I'm new at the nutrition thing and just based on my readings here it seems IMO that when a dog is fed more protein they may not be able to digest it as well and my large dog is prone to loose stools. PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong. I'm trying to feed based on what I learn but I want to learn it right. Thx.


Meat protein is much easier to digest than carbs or plant based proteins are.


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## ChattyCathy (Nov 22, 2008)

LoveNewfies said:


> Quite often, soft stools when on a high protein kibble are caused by over feeding.


I am now working on lowering their food intake. I want to keep them on EVO as I think it's an excellent dog food.


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## rannmiller (Jun 27, 2008)

I think you heard that thing about dogs not digesting higher protein levels from Wellness Core (you used to feed that, right?). I remember reading that back when I was feeding it, they say dogs dont digest protein any better at 42% protein than they do at 32% protein so they stick with the lower one because it's supposed to be easier on the dogs (and probably on the wallet). Not sure how true that is though. Seems like my dogs do just fine digesting their protein but I know raw and kibble aren't even in the same league, so yeah... still don't know.


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## rannmiller (Jun 27, 2008)

Is it just me or does it seem like Evo's ingredients have changed recently and not for the better? I thought that they used to have more of the meat at the top of the list and awesome things like beef heart and lungs, but now all I'm seeing is this: 

Ingredients:
Beef, Lamb Meal, Potatoes, Egg, Sunflower Oil, Buffalo, Lamb, Venison, Beef Cartilage, Herring Oil, Natural Flavors, Apples, Carrots, Tomatoes, Alfalfa Sprouts, Garlic, Cottage Cheese, Potassium Chloride, Vitamins/Minerals, Ascorbic Acid, Dried Chicory Root, Direct-Fed Microbials, Vitamin E Supplement, Lecithin, Rosemary Extract. 

I mean, it's better than a lot of the foods out there still, don't get me wrong, but it definitely doesn't look like it's nearly as good as it used to be.


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

rannmiller said:


> Is it just me or does it seem like Evo's ingredients have changed recently and not for the better? I thought that they used to have more of the meat at the top of the list and awesome things like beef heart and lungs,


I hadn't looked at their ingredients list for a whlle (like a year or more) so I went to their page and looked. The ingredients you listed were for their "red meat" formula and It does seem to have potatoes, egg, and sunflower oil higher on the ingredients list. The other formulas are pretty much the way I remember them being.



> I mean, it's better than a lot of the foods out there still, don't get me wrong, but it definitely doesn't look like it's nearly as good as it used to be.


Like I said before, If I HAD to feed kibble it would be EVO or Orijen.


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## rannmiller (Jun 27, 2008)

Yeah their regular ones still look pretty decent. Still that's a little disappointing.


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## ChattyCathy (Nov 22, 2008)

rannmiller said:


> I think you heard that thing about dogs not digesting higher protein levels from Wellness Core (you used to feed that, right?).


Yes, I was feeding them Wellness Core. What a great memory!


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5 (Feb 11, 2010)

RawFedDogs said:


> If I HAD to feed kibble, EVO or Orijen would be what I would feed. They are not exactly a carnivore diet but they are much closer than any other kibble I've found. Much more meat and much less carbs then any of the other brands. It's difficult to know that just by looking at the ingredient list because they don't list the amount of inappropriate ingredients but if you look at the nutrient list it will become more evident that these 2 kibbles have much more meat and less carbs.


canidae gran free has more meat than orijen.


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## Jordan S. (Feb 2, 2010)

Yes I fed it with plenty of success. I have decided I'd stick with CORE as this is what he does best on. 

You gotta be careful with portion sizes on the EVO as it's VERY calorically rich . don't treat it like pedigree, or even canidae.


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## SaltyDog (Mar 10, 2010)

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> canidae gran free has more meat than orijen.




First of all, I'm not sure how you can prove this statement and second of all Canidae (as it is made by Diamond Pet Foods) has no idea what is actually making it into the bag.

Stick with family run manufacturing facitlities like Natura (Evo, Innova, Cali Natural) and Champion (Orijen, Acana)


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## syrcaid (Mar 20, 2010)

I put my 10 lb pom mix on the Innova Evo and he had diarrhea in the house like every other day, even after being on it for awhile. It did not agree with him, so I switched him to the Wellness Core, which he does great on. Nice firm stools. In fact, even after I'd switched him, there was a small amount of the Evo left in the bottom of the food container--and any time there were noticable amounts of the Evo in the mix when I got to the bottom of the container, he'd get diarrhea. I eventually had to dump it all so he'd stop getting even the little pieces.

I'd feed him that if I could, but my white carpet says no. Wellness Core has been great though.


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5 (Feb 11, 2010)

SaltyDog said:


> First of all, I'm not sure how you can prove this statement and second of all Canidae (as it is made by Diamond Pet Foods) has no idea what is actually making it into the bag.
> 
> Stick with family run manufacturing facitlities like Natura (Evo, Innova, Cali Natural) and Champion (Orijen, Acana)


CANIDAE tests the final products. i cant really prove it, but the canidae site says 80 percent proteion from meat, while orijen site says 70 percent protein is from meats.


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## 3feathers (Oct 29, 2008)

EVO also contains 80%. I used to feed Canidae ALS back when it was made in their own plant, and before it had the ingredient changes. When that change was made my pup did horrible!!! His belly, chest, and legs had become bloody from itching so bad in a matter of days! Also started having very loose stool. I did a cold turkey switch to a grain free food, and have not looked back at Canidae ever since, even when they came out with their grain free foods. The company had completely lost my trust in their quality of foods. I now rotate between Orijen and EVO, and he is now 2 years old, 101 lbs. and doing great!


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## PUNKem733 (Jun 12, 2009)

3feathers said:


> EVO also contains 80%. I used to feed Canidae ALS back when it was made in their own plant, and before it had the ingredient changes. When that change was made my pup did horrible!!! His belly, chest, and legs had become bloody from itching so bad in a matter of days! Also started having very loose stool. I did a cold turkey switch to a grain free food, and have not looked back at Canidae ever since, even when they came out with their grain free foods. The company had completely lost my trust in their quality of foods. I now rotate between Orijen and EVO, and he is now 2 years old, 101 lbs. and doing great!



Yeah, I wouldn't put Canidae even on the same block as Evo or Orijen.


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5 (Feb 11, 2010)

i would say the quality of ingridients is prob a little lower with canidae or TOTW. TOTW is like 40 dollars for 30 pounds at most places, some places charge even less. canidae grain freeis 47.99 for 30 pounds at my store. orijen is 56.99 for 29.7 pounds. canidae claims to use more meat, so its weird they are able to keep costs down. but that is prob due to manufacturing with diamond as opposed to in their own warehouse like champion does.


i may switch to orijen eventually, but i think giving canidae grain free a shot is a good idea for me, since my dog has done well on canidae for a year or 2.


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## notilloc (Jan 14, 2010)

Both of my boxers now do great on evo. For the first 2 or 3 months they had diarhea and had trouble digesting it. I think for some dogs it takes a really long time for them to get used to the high calories and the pet store i buy it from they say about 50% of the people have problems with diarhea at first but if you are patient it usually goes away. Now both of my dogs have very firm stools and are looking great, I will be staying with evo for a very long time.


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## PUNKem733 (Jun 12, 2009)

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> CANIDAE tests the final products. i cant really prove it, but the canidae site says 80 percent proteion from meat, while orijen site says 70 percent protein is from meats.


Then you shouldn't be saying they test their food, if you can't prove it. Especially if you're going by what their site claims.


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## buddy97 (Mar 29, 2010)

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> CANIDAE tests the final products. i cant really prove it, but the canidae site says 80 percent proteion from meat, while orijen site says 70 percent protein is from meats.


this is not accurate.

Canidae claims _"80% of the protein content is from meat"_

Orijen says _"70% of the actual product is meat"_

there is a clear difference. Orijen may well have more than 80% of the protein content being derived from meat.

Canidae is not claiming what % of the product is meat, they are claiming what % of the existing protein % comes from meat.

as far as EVO, can anyone direct me to where they claim 80% (and is that meat content or what % of protein comes from meat)?


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## lilbabyvenus (Mar 3, 2010)

I've been trying it out with my chihuahuas for the past couple weeks and they love it. No loose stools. I've tried both the small bites Red Meat and Chicken formulas and they like both.


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## wags (Jan 31, 2009)

All 4 of my dogs are on EVO right now. They love it and I feed less than the weight recommendation calls for probably 1/4 less. They are doing great on it! All of them!:smile:


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5 (Feb 11, 2010)

buddy97 said:


> this is not accurate.
> 
> Canidae claims _"80% of the protein content is from meat"_
> 
> ...


orijen claims the same thing there is NO DIFFERENCE.IF 80 PERCENT OF THEPROTEIN IS FROM MEAT, THEN MOST OF THE PRODUCT WILL BE MEATS,SINCE IN A GRAIN FREE KIBBLE A LARGE PART OF THE FOOD IS PROTEINS.

sorry i didnt mean to type caps. m too lozy to change.


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5 (Feb 11, 2010)

PUNKem733 said:


> Then you shouldn't be saying they test their food, if you can't prove it. Especially if you're going by what their site claims.


 can you prove orijen is grain free? no you cant.

unless we test all these products we cant prove anything
the you shouldnt give any info for orijen if you dont work for them.

you are just going by what orijens site says. just gotta trust once in a while.


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## buddy97 (Mar 29, 2010)

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> orijen claims the same thing there is NO DIFFERENCE..


Orijen is not claiming what % of the protein is from meat. they are claiming what % of the product is meat. either way, it is certainly a more meat based food than most


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## PUNKem733 (Jun 12, 2009)

> Originally Posted by RCTRIPLEFRESH5 View Post
> wow, i just got a SKETCHY response from canidae customer service!
> on the grain free information page of their site,it says
> Made the CANIDAE® Way with Superior Quality: No Corn, Wheat, Soy, Grain Fractions, Glutens or Fillers and Naturally Preserved
> ...


I'd rather put slightly more trust in a Co, like Orijen that won't make any canned food (extra profit), because they don't have the facility to make it themselves, rather than farming it out to another Co, then Canidae.


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5 (Feb 11, 2010)

PUNKem733 said:


> I'd rather put slightly more trust in a Co, like Orijen that won't make any canned food (extra profit), because they don't have the facility to make it themselves, rather than farming it out to another Co, then Canidae.


ok so that's cool you trust orijen, but why bash canidae?
natura makes canned foods as well.kibble is a business, times are tough, even innova evo changed their red meat formula awhile back to include less meats.

orijen did not tell any aussies about the food being irradiated, and that is very dishonest. also the bone incident wasnt favorable either.

canidae has its faults, but so does orijen. my next food will be innova evo turk/chick

bu im sticking with canidae GF for a few months.


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5 (Feb 11, 2010)

buddy97 said:


> Orijen is not claiming what % of the protein is from meat. they are claiming what % of the product is meat. either way, it is certainly a more meat based food than most


which the canidae? i agree they both are very meat based, and f you are correct, then yeah i guess there is a difference.

i too, am interested in EVOS meat content. i have heard it was 95 percent, but idk. it's got the least carbs, and to my knowledge no potatoes. it also has the highest protein.


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## PUNKem733 (Jun 12, 2009)

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> ok so that's cool you trust orijen, but why bash canidae?
> natura makes canned foods as well.kibble is a business, times are tough, even innova evo changed their red meat formula awhile back to include less meats.
> 
> orijen did not tell any aussies about the food being irradiated, and that is very dishonest. also the bone incident wasnt favorable either.
> ...


I never said I trusted Orijen, I said I put more trust in a Co like Orijen than Canidae. Yes I know Natura makes their OWN canned food, as well as their OWN kibble. They DO NOT contract their canned food out to a third party. Orijen doesn't make their own canned when there is a demand for canned food from them. They have stated until they can make it themselves there will be no Orijen canned food. They do not have the facility to make it. You see what I mean? They can contract let's say Diamond to make it for them, slap on the Orijen name, and make money, but they choose not to, as they would rather do it themselves.

The radiation issue is a Aussie Gov't issue, not Orijen. Someone else, I think Kevin pointed that out to you.


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## kevin bradley (Aug 9, 2009)

so you're stickin with Canidae, RC?:biggrin:


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## PUNKem733 (Jun 12, 2009)

kevin bradley said:


> so you're stickin with Canidae, RC?:biggrin:


LOL I can see if you're sticking with Canidae, because it's cheaper than Evo, but as he pointed out, he is going to Evo soon, so I assume he/she can afford it, so to stick with Canidae is pretty funny.


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## kevin bradley (Aug 9, 2009)

PUNKem733 said:


> I never said I trusted Orijen, I said I put more trust in a Co like Orijen than Canidae. Yes I know Natura makes their OWN canned food, as well as their OWN kibble. They DO NOT contract their canned food out to a third party. Orijen doesn't make their own canned when there is a demand for canned food from them. They have stated until they can make it themselves there will be no Orijen canned food. They do not have the facility to make it. You see what I mean? They can contract let's say Diamond to make it for them, slap on the Orijen name, and make money, but they choose not to, as they would rather do it themselves.
> 
> The radiation issue is a Aussie Gov't issue, not Orijen. Someone else, I think Kevin pointed that out to you.


Punk, I think Natura does farm out their canned food. I'll have to check but I could swear they do...it's about the only aspect of Natura I don't like. You're right on Orijen...they don't mess around with any coman 3rd party shenanigans.

Link says they farm out their wet food to Menu....I wish you wouldn't do this, Natura, I really wish you wouldn't. Anything like this with their dry food...I swear, if they do what Canidae did, I'm done and it will be Orijen/Acana only in my home. But for now, I'm still an avid Natura guy.
http://www.thepetfoodlist.com/petfoods_pg2.htm


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## Ania's Mommy (Feb 8, 2009)

The extent of my knowledge on the Orijen radiation and bone issues are limited to what I've learned on this forum. But I'm puttin' my 2 cents in anyway! :wink:

About the Australia radiation issue - I'm thinking that the product was radiated because of Australian import laws. Did Orijen even KNOW that their food was radiated? It left their factory un-radiatied. 

Regarding the fish bones - I don't see this as problem in the slightest. From what I understand, the bones in question were tiny shards poking out of the kibble. NOT a big deal in my book. Dogs are perfectly capable of eating and digesting tiny fish bone shards with no problems whatsoever. In fact, they are able to eat and digest very large ones too. Further, I think that the miniscule bones in the kibble is a good sign. Hey! They're really putting fish in here! Whoo hoo!

So take that with a grain of salt, but I just wanted to weigh in with my opinion.

Richelle


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## kevin bradley (Aug 9, 2009)

YEP, Dogs EAT bones in the wild and have done so for thousands of years. 

In my opinion, RC went down a bad path slamming Orijen. They are a wonderful company devoted to uncompromised practices. There aren't many out there and my Dogs love their food and I feel it, along with EVO are the greatest foods available to us.


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## PUNKem733 (Jun 12, 2009)

kevin bradley said:


> Punk, I think Natura does farm out their canned food. I'll have to check but I could swear they do...it's about the only aspect of Natura I don't like. You're right on Orijen...they don't mess around with any coman 3rd party shenanigans.
> 
> Link says they farm out their wet food to Menu....I wish you wouldn't do this, Natura, I really wish you wouldn't. Anything like this with their dry food...I swear, if they do what Canidae did, I'm done and it will be Orijen/Acana only in my home. But for now, I'm still an avid Natura guy.
> The Pet Food List. Pet Food information, manufacturers, products, ingredients, cat, dog food.




Damn! Oh well I won't buy their canned foods anymore. It will only be Trippett, and Evangers game meats.


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5 (Feb 11, 2010)

PUNKem733 said:


> I never said I trusted Orijen, I said I put more trust in a Co like Orijen than Canidae. Yes I know Natura makes their OWN canned food, as well as their OWN kibble. They DO NOT contract their canned food out to a third party. Orijen doesn't make their own canned when there is a demand for canned food from them. They have stated until they can make it themselves there will be no Orijen canned food. They do not have the facility to make it. You see what I mean? They can contract let's say Diamond to make it for them, slap on the Orijen name, and make money, but they choose not to, as they would rather do it themselves.
> 
> The radiation issue is a Aussie Gov't issue, not Orijen. Someone else, I think Kevin pointed that out to you.


no the radiation issue is an orijen issue. this is for two reasons. the aussie govt stated orijen could not sell their food unless they irradiated it. orijen chose to irradiate it. another thing is, orijen knew the consumers would not buy food that was irradiated, and did not tell the consumers about this, which is very dishonest! this resulted in many harmed pets!
im pretty sure natura gets their cans made by menu food.


kevin bradley said:


> so you're stickin with Canidae, RC?:biggrin:


yeah,shanes doing well on it, but ill prob try evo in the future once shane gets accustomed to grain free.


PUNKem733 said:


> LOL I can see if you're sticking with Canidae, because it's cheaper than Evo, but as he pointed out, he is going to Evo soon, so I assume he/she can afford it, so to stick with Canidae is pretty funny.


well canidaes a good food as well. it is also a good transition into grain free as well.




kevin bradley said:


> YEP, Dogs EAT bones in the wild and have done so for thousands of years.
> 
> In my opinion, RC went down a bad path slamming Orijen. They are a wonderful company devoted to uncompromised practices. There aren't many out there and my Dogs love their food and I feel it, along with EVO are the greatest foods available to us.


i wasnt slamming orijen, i think they are an ok company compared to most, but like you have your issues with diamond, i have my issues with orijen as well. im confused why you are staying with evo since it gives your dogs looser stools? at least you said that in another post =p.


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## kevin bradley (Aug 9, 2009)

RC, believe I said "gasy" and that subsided after awhile. Believe I simply had to bring portions down...Harry was the one that was a bit gasy and he seems fine now. I'm almost done with the current EVO batch and will begin transitioning into Acana for the next couple months. 

Honestly, if I had to pick...I'd opt for Orijen/Acana by a nose. Just a feeling on them being a bit more uncompromised....I don't like Natura farming out their wet food. It makes me think they are one step closer to Canidae and that bothers me. If I ever hear of a Natura rep anywhere near a Diamond plant, I will gone. But EVO is a fabulous food and I will continue to keep it in the rotation until further notice.


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## PUNKem733 (Jun 12, 2009)

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> no the radiation issue is an orijen issue. this is for two reasons. the aussie govt stated orijen could not sell their food unless they irradiated it. orijen chose to irradiate it. another thing is, orijen knew the consumers would not buy food that was irradiated, and did not tell the consumers about this, which is very dishonest! this resulted in many harmed pets!
> im pretty sure natura gets their cans made by menu food.
> 
> yeah,shanes doing well on it, but ill prob try evo in the future once shane gets accustomed to grain free.
> ...



Got any proof on the Orijen radiation issue? Not a youtube vid made by a retarded monkey, a press release? I don't believe that. They won't farm out the making of their own canned foods, but they will irradiate their foods?!?

I don't care whether one hates or likes Orijen, as I think Ziwi Peak is the best dog food by far that is not raw. It is just more expensive per pound than platinum, which is ridiculous, but they are more than just "OK".


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## chowder (Sep 7, 2008)

Just a quick information note on Natura's use of Menu's processing plant for their canned EVO. Their company had this to say about it....

"Where are your products sourced?
Recently, Natura announced that every ingredient used in our healthful formulas is sourced from trusted non-Chinese suppliers, including certain vitamins and supplements which had previously been available only from China. This pertains to all of Natura’s dry, wet and baked pet products. At this time, we are the only pet food manufacturer that we are aware of that can make this claim.

Natura also guarantees that every fresh ingredient used in our formulas are sourced from trusted U.S. suppliers that meet strict guidelines for safety and quality control. To ensure product safety, Natura has taken the extra step to validate the origin of each ingredient used in our formulas.

Are any of your foods made by Menu Foods?
Natura Pet Products canned pet foods are manufactured by Menu Foods at its Emporia, Kansas facility. Natural nutrition, ingredient selection, product design, quality, and food safety are essential tenets of all Natura products. Natura, together with Menu Foods, developed and follows a robust quality management program which fully mirrors the quality programs Natura employs in our own manufacturing plants. A Positive Release protocol including proof of full compliance with analytical guarantees and organoleptic standards, as well as confirmation of quality and production data are components of the program. Every production lot is approved by Natura prior to final release. Members of Natura’s Quality team conduct monthly quality and food safety audits of Menu’s facility to assure Natura’s strict quality standards are met.

No Natura canned or dry products were implicated in the 2007 pet food recalls."

The theory is that they are not set up to manufacture canned food in the quantity that they sell themselves but can control every aspect of it by using just that one plant in Kansas thru Menu Foods. 

If anyone wants more information, they are very friendly and will answer emails.


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## PUNKem733 (Jun 12, 2009)

chowder said:


> Just a quick information note on Natura's use of Menu's processing plant for their canned EVO. Their company had this to say about it....
> 
> "Where are your products sourced?
> Recently, Natura announced that every ingredient used in our healthful formulas is sourced from trusted non-Chinese suppliers, including certain vitamins and supplements which had previously been available only from China. This pertains to all of Natura’s dry, wet and baked pet products. At this time, we are the only pet food manufacturer that we are aware of that can make this claim.
> ...



Very good of them to release the information.


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5 (Feb 11, 2010)

PUNKem733 said:


> Got any proof on the Orijen radiation issue? Not a youtube vid made by a retarded monkey, a press release? I don't believe that. They won't farm out the making of their own canned foods, but they will irradiate their foods?!?
> 
> I don't care whether one hates or likes Orijen, as I think Ziwi Peak is the best dog food by far that is not raw. It is just more expensive per pound than platinum, which is ridiculous, but they are more than just "OK".


you already said you believed me when you admitted, the irradiation issue was an assie govt issue. that means you know they have irradiated it. orijen hads admitted that they have, and they no longer sell to aussies. it is an orijen issue though, for the reasons have mentioned. if you dont believe me, then awesome that jst means you will stick to orijen, and i will stay far away from them.

oh and another reason i like canidae, is because they use chelated minerals which are the best.


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## PUNKem733 (Jun 12, 2009)

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> you already said you believed me when you admitted, the irradiation issue was an assie govt issue. that means you know they have irradiated it. orijen hads admitted that they have, and they no longer sell to aussies. it is an orijen issue though, for the reasons have mentioned. if you dont believe me, then awesome that jst means you will stick to orijen, and i will stay far away from them.
> 
> oh and another reason i like canidae, is because they use chelated minerals which are the best.


I thought the Aussie Gov't did this, now you're saying it was Orijen, proof please. You say Orijen admitted to it, where did they admit this?


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5 (Feb 11, 2010)

you can do your own research, like i said im not trying to turn you against orijen so i could care less if you believe me. it seems you dont understand what ive written.

YES THE AUSSIE GOVT did the irradiations. the aussie govt gave orijen an ultimatum. orijen either had to allow them to irradiate the kibble, or they couldnt import it into austrailia for retail in their stores. ORIJEN OPTED TO ALLOW THE GOVT TO IRRADIATE THE FOODS.
not only is that inexcusable, but orijen also did not inform the consumers about this SIGNIFIGANT, AND HARMFUL DETAIL!!!
what a dishonest company.

orijen says on their site that they dont sell to austrailia anymore.

here is the official Q AND A from orijen about the issue.

http://www.championpetfoods.com/Australia_Consumer_Release.pdf


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## PUNKem733 (Jun 12, 2009)

You tell me to do my own research, when I don't have to, you are making these claims. Then you go and do it for me anyway! Damn your nutty, I like you.:biggrin:

Thank god I'm not in Australia. Also seems like they stopped shipping over their, seems like the Gov't are the assholes. But I'm sure you'd use any excuse to keep feeding an inferior food, and feel good about it. 

Also the document is Champion explaining the situation, I don't see them hiding it.


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## Unosmom (May 3, 2009)

A lot of imported foods are irradiated (like chicken jerky from china), Champion had no way of knowing that it would adversely affect the cats. Though I dont understand why Australia is the only country that had issues since its distributed worldwide. 

Either way, I dont blame the company.


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## PUNKem733 (Jun 12, 2009)

Unosmom said:


> A lot of imported foods are irradiated (like chicken jerky from china), Champion had no way of knowing that it would adversely affect the cats. Though I dont understand why Australia is the only country that had issues since its distributed worldwide.
> 
> Either way, I dont blame the company.



Exactly, I can't blame them. Though I think our friend here needs something like this to comfort him.


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5 (Feb 11, 2010)

PUNKem733 said:


> Damn *your* nutty, I like you.:biggrin:
> 
> Thank god I'm not in Australia. Also seems like they stopped shipping over *their*, seems like the Gov't are the assholes. But I'm sure you'd use any excuse to keep feeding an inferior food, and feel good about it.
> 
> .


canidae grain free is a fine food. orijen also tested positive for gluten did you forget that? that is another lie told by orijen. their bags say gluten free on them.

orijen never told the customers about the food being irradiated, if you think they arent to blame, well i suggest you take an iq test, and tell me the results :tongue:

of course they stopped shipping to austrailia, and voluntarily recalled, they were killing pet.
i never said they were hiding it. im the one who said they know about it. it's not hidden now because they are trying to sugar coat it, after the aussie govt leaked the truth!! the fact is they hid it before the fact, and only came clean when their lies killed and harmed pets.

since yah like to point out my typos..it's you''re, and it's there.:biggrin:


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5 (Feb 11, 2010)

Unosmom said:


> A lot of imported foods are irradiated (like chicken jerky from china), Champion had no way of knowing that it would adversely affect the cats. Though I dont understand why Australia is the only country that had issues since its distributed worldwide.
> 
> Either way, I dont blame the company.


everyone knows irradiating food is not healthy. i could ask a 5th grader if irradiating food would harm the cats, and theyd say YES. well, if they arent a special 5th grader they would!!!

either way, they should have let the aussies paying 60 bucks a bag for the food decide. well they prolly charge more in austrailia. fact is, they never told the consumers. i dont know that much about radiation, but i know enough, that if orijen told me, that it was doing it to their foods, i would go with canidae or innova for my shane.


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## PUNKem733 (Jun 12, 2009)

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> canidae grain free is a fine food. orijen also tested positive for gluten did you forget that? that is another lie told by orijen. their bags say gluten free on them.
> 
> orijen never told the customers about the food being irradiated, if you think they arent to blame, well i suggest you take an iq test, and tell me the results :tongue:
> 
> ...


2 vs 10,000.


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## buddy97 (Mar 29, 2010)

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> canidae grain free is a fine food. orijen also tested positive for gluten did you forget that? that is another lie told by orijen. their bags say gluten free on them.
> 
> :


do you have a link where you found this information?

i cant find any information on this anywhere. when i do a google search, the only thing i find is this thread. i also will email them. i would think if orijen tested positive for gluten, there would be an awful lot of hand wringing on plenty of dog forums.

gluten is a product of grains. since orijen is grain free and acana has been tested to be gluten free, id love to know how orijen tested positiove for gluten, as they own their own plant and dont make food for anyone else. (ala Diamond).


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5 (Feb 11, 2010)

i podted a video where some girl did some tests on it. not the most scientific of tests,but it is something.

also orijen doresnt email me back, that really pisses me off. wellness,canidae,and evo are very prompt with emails. wellness,and canidae sent generous samples of specific products as well. orijen sends an automated reply 24 hours after you email them top say they got your message,and then 2 weeks later i still never got a real reply/


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5 (Feb 11, 2010)

got an email from innova about the meat content. it dint help much, since i dont have a package on my hands...


Dear David,

Thank you for contacting Natura Pet Products. We do not send out samples from our corporate office. Your local retail store should have samples of the food that you are looking for. Please visit the 'Where to Buy' section on our website, The Healthiest Pet Foods in the World – Natural & Organic Pet Food – Natura Pet Products.

We do have a 100% satisfaction guarantee. If you need to return the product for any reason, then you would return the bag back to the store where it was purchased for an exchange of product, a refund, or a credit.



The actual percentage of meat in the products is proprietary information. However, the front of the bag states a percentage of protein coming from meats and dairy in the product.

Please let me know if you need additional information.


Best regards,
Heather, Licensed Veterinary Technician
Natura Product Advisor
[email protected]


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## buddy97 (Mar 29, 2010)

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> i podted a video where some girl did some tests on it. not the most scientific of tests,but it is something.
> /


do you have a link to the video?

edit: i found this video:

http://www.glutenfreefox.com/articles/gluten-free-dog-food-video.html

i have also emailed this video to champion. i am always skeptical when a single consumer posts something like this as to the reliability of what they are doing and the reliability of the home gluten test kits.


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## rannmiller (Jun 27, 2008)

I left a comment/suggestion for her :smile:


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## 3feathers (Oct 29, 2008)

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> got an email from innova about the meat content. it dint help much, since i dont have a package on my hands...


I had to dig around for my bag, but I found it. It states "80% chicken, turkey, and dairy. 19% vegetables and fruits"

When at first glance at the bag I thought 80% meat protein. My dog still does very well on it.


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## buddy97 (Mar 29, 2010)

buddy97 said:


> do you have a link to the video?
> 
> edit: i found this video:
> 
> ...


here is the email i got from Diana at Champion today (finally) regarding this video:

_Hello Derek,

Thank you for your email and sorry for the delay in replying. 

ORIJEN formulas do not contain any grain, no barley, no oats, no corn, etc. I spoke with our nutritionist and he said that there is no validity to the tests that this women has done as they are home kits and not done in a proper controlled lab environment. 

I can tell you that our formulas are tested for many things on a regular basis and I can assure you that ORIJEN is 100% gluten free, again there are no grains at all in the ORIJEN plant so it is impossible that they are in the formula.

Thank you again for taking the time to write to us and please contact us with any further questions or concerns that you may have.

Kind regards,

Diana 
Customer Care
Champion Petfoods LP
Phone: 780.939.6888
Fax: 780.939.6858_


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## PUNKem733 (Jun 12, 2009)

buddy97 said:


> here is the email i got from Diana at Champion today (finally) regarding this video:
> 
> _Hello Derek,
> 
> ...


Yeah as soon as I saw the video, I knew she was wrong. She uses a $10 home kit, I'm sure Champion uses more sophisticated equipment for the same tests.


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5 (Feb 11, 2010)

PUNKem733 said:


> Yeah as soon as I saw the video, I knew she was wrong. She uses a $10 home kit, I'm sure Champion uses more sophisticated equipment for the same tests.


that doesnt mean she was wrong. fda says some things have zero trans fat. does that mean they dont? know it means they can have as much as .5 grams PER SERVING.(unrelated example)

im not dogging orijen, but you seem blind to the possibility it may have gluten. same with wellness core. there's also something to be noted in the fact that newmans own tested negative. it was the only one also. i wish she did canidae.

as for the orijen 70 percent protein, versus 70 percent total meat debate. i think theyre pretty much the same since grain free foods are mostly proteins anyway.
also i looked at orijns ingredients, and although it has a lot more meat sources than canidae(which claims 80 percent meat protein) it also has like one or 2 meat meals. you would think that the numbers would be close, since orijen has more meat sources comprising of little meat, where as canidae has fewer meat sources comprising of more meat densities(meal vs fresh), but you would be inclined to think less meats most being meals would slightly be more than more meats most being fresh, since fresh are barely meat, and when you multiply nothing yo uet nothing but the multiplication of mostly meat is more mostly meat product haha.

so i still think canidaes grain free meat content is just as good as orijens


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## buddy97 (Mar 29, 2010)

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> that doesnt mean she was wrong. fda says some things have zero trans fat. does that mean they dont? know it means they can have as much as .5 grams PER SERVING.(unrelated example)
> 
> im not dogging orijen, but you seem blind to the possibility it may have gluten. same with wellness core. there's also something to be noted in the fact that newmans own tested negative. it was the only one also. i wish she did canidae.
> 
> ...


if you want to know, ask canidae how much of their product is made up of meat, since the claim orijen is making is how much of the product is meat (_"ORIJEN is made with 70-75% meat ingredients_" ).

the claim Canidae is making is how much of the total protein content is from meat ("_80% of the total protein is derived from meat_")

of course, the bulk of meat product of any of these manufacturers has to come from named meat meals. none of them could use enough meat in the pre cooked product to create a cooked product where meat was anywhere near the top of the ingredient list (well, they could, then they would charge us $150 a bag).


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## PUNKem733 (Jun 12, 2009)

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> that doesnt mean she was wrong. fda says some things have zero trans fat. does that mean they dont? know it means they can have as much as .5 grams PER SERVING.(unrelated example)
> 
> im not dogging orijen, but you seem blind to the possibility it may have gluten. same with wellness core. there's also something to be noted in the fact that newmans own tested negative. it was the only one also. i wish she did canidae.
> 
> ...



Meat vs. meat meal.



> As far as I am currently informed, only one company has won a court decision in the US to be able to sell their foods as "human food grade", and unlike any other, these are manufactured from ingredients made and packaged for the human food industry, at a facility that only processes products sold for human consumption. Anything pet-food related wouldn't even be permitted on the premises. The first time these products actually come in contact with anything made for the pet market is when they are delivered to the pet supply stores that sell them.


I wonder who this is?



> Meat
> "Meat is the clean flesh derived from slaughtered mammals and is limited to that part of the striate muscle which is skeletal or that which is found in the tongue, in the diaphragm, in the heart, or in the esophagus; with or without the accompanying and overlying fat and the portions of the skin, sinew, nerve, and blood vessels which normally accompany the flesh. It shall be suitable for use in animal food. If it bears a name descriptive of its kind, it must correspond thereto.".
> 
> Poultry
> ...





> "Meat meal is the rendered product from mammal tissues, exclusive of any added blood, hair, hoof, horn, hide trimmings, manure, stomach and rumen contents except in such amounts as may occur unavoidably in good processing practices. It shall not contain added extraneous materials not provided for by this definition.The Calcium (Ca) level shall not exceed the actual level of Phosphorus (P) by more than 2.2 times. It shall not contain more than 12% Pepsin indigestible residue and not more than 9% of the crude protein in the product shall be pepsin indigestible. The label shall include guarantees for minimum crude protein, minimum crude fat, maximum crude fiber, minimum Phosphorus (P) and minimum and maximum Calcium (Ca). If the product bears a name descriptive of its kind, composition or origin, it must correspond thereto."
> 
> "Poultry meal is the dry rendered product from a combination of clean flesh and skin with or without accompanying bone, derived from the parts of whole carcasses of poultry or a combination thereof, exclusive of feathers, heads, feet, and entrails.It shall be suitable for use in animal food. If it bears a name descriptive of its kind, it must correspond thereto."
> 
> ...


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## buddy97 (Mar 29, 2010)

yep. the named meats are mostly window dressing. manufacturers like to call a food "Bison" formula with an ingredient list something like:

Bison, Chicken Meal, Duck Meal, potato......

the meat in there is foremost chicken product, then some duck product, then probably potato, and oh yeah, by the way, there is a little bit of bison somewhere in there.


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5 (Feb 11, 2010)

thats what i was saying in my post. orijen has more different meats, but most are fresh meats, whereas canidae has like 4 meatmeals and one fresh meat, and a lot of the emals are the first ingridents. its clear it has more meats. even if the fresh meat was first, it would be useless.


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## buddy97 (Mar 29, 2010)

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> thats what i was saying in my post. orijen has more different meats, but most are fresh meats, whereas canidae has like 4 meatmeals and one fresh meat, and a lot of the emals are the first ingridents. its clear it has more meats. even if the fresh meat was first, it would be useless.


Orijen Adult
Fresh deboned chicken, chicken meal, turkey meal, russet potato, fresh deboned pacific salmon (a natural source of DHA and EPA), herring meal

canidae als grain free
Chicken meal, turkey meal, lamb, potatoes, peas, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), lamb meal, 

not seeing what you are. 2 of the first 3 ingredients in Orijen are named meat meals, just as in the Canidae. whatever comes after the chicken fat will be in very small quantity. without knowing proportions of those meals, it is all guessing. i could use you argument and say the Orijen fish has more named meals before any non meat product vs the Canidae and thus has more overall meat. however, again, without knowing proportions who knows. 
what i do know is how much of Orijen's product is meat (70-75% as stated). i do not know this about Canidae. if you want to convince yourself Canidae has the same meat content as Orijen, simply ask them how much of their product is made up of meat.

Orijen Fish
Fresh deboned salmon, salmon meal, herring meal, russet potato, fresh deboned lake whitefish,

Canidae Salmon
Salmon meal, potatoes, potato protein, ocean fish meal, canola oil


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5 (Feb 11, 2010)

canidae salmon doesn't impress me,but i still think the grainfree als is a very meaty food. at 49 dollars and change after tax, its also a great buy.


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## PUNKem733 (Jun 12, 2009)

buddy97 said:


> Orijen Adult
> Fresh deboned chicken, chicken meal, turkey meal, russet potato, fresh deboned pacific salmon (a natural source of DHA and EPA), herring meal
> 
> canidae als grain free
> ...


What most have learned here is the fresh5 thinks Canidae grain free is just as good or better than Orijen or Evo. Crazy I know, but oh well.


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## buddy97 (Mar 29, 2010)

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> canidae salmon doesn't impress me,but i still think the grainfree als is a very meaty food. at 49 dollars and change after tax, its also a great buy.


i think it is a good value as well (much more so than TOTW fish, which i think does not have as much meat product). it uses salmon meal as the main protein source instead of "mystery" ocean fish meal. if it werent for who makes it, i would use it more in my rotation.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

buddy -- i thought i was the only person that ever named a dog kimba....what made you come up with that name? sorry to hijack this thread, but i gotta know...


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## buddy97 (Mar 29, 2010)

magicre said:


> buddy -- i thought i was the only person that ever named a dog kimba....what made you come up with that name? sorry to hijack this thread, but i gotta know...


after countless hours of looking at dog names, i started looking at people names. when i got to kim, i started coming up with derivations-kimmy, kimino, kimmers, kimbo (i felt i was getting close here, but this sounded too masculine, changed the o to a, kimba sounded perfect for her)


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

when we first got our kimba, i hadn't named her. couldn't think of a name..until one day, she was laying on the floor, all four arms splayed out, and there is a word -- akimbo, which means exactly that.....so her name became kimba LOL


how interesting it is the ways we come up with names for our dogs.


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5 (Feb 11, 2010)

buddy97 said:


> i think it is a good value as well (much more so than TOTW fish, which i think does not have as much meat product). it uses salmon meal as the main protein source instead of "mystery" ocean fish meal. if it werent for who makes it, i would use it more in my rotation.


i dont think the canidaes salmon is a good value i think the regular ALS grain free is a good value. the salmon is more expensive and looks to be all potatoes.
i just wissh the ALS used whitefish meal not ocean fish meals,but its a low ingridient anyways.
i agree the totw looks like a really bad product.

i would feed the wetlands or the high prairie. the fish has 25 percent protein which is very low for a grain free food. even the others are at 32 which is real low. i think 34-42 is the normal range for grain free foods depending on the richness.


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## buddy97 (Mar 29, 2010)

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> i dont think the canidaes salmon is a good value i think the regular ALS grain free is a good value. the salmon is more expensive and looks to be all potatoes.
> i just wissh the ALS used whitefish meal not ocean fish meals,but its a low ingridient anyways.
> i agree the totw looks like a really bad product.
> 
> i would feed the wetlands or the high prairie. the fish has 25 percent protein which is very low for a grain free food. even the others are at 32 which is real low. i think 34-42 is the normal range for grain free foods depending on the richness.


that salmon meal in the canidae could be just as much meat as the multiple meals/meats listed in the ALS. having more of them listed may mean there is less of each one. at 40% protein, i believe there is a decent amount of salmon meal in there. after all, much like with the grain free ALS, Canidae states : _80% of the total protein is derived from fish_. as expensive as the other salmon based foods are, i still see the canidae grain free salmon as a good value, but agree the TOTW salmon is a poor value.

i also agree that any grain free food at ~25% protein is unlikely to have the levels of meat that foods like EVO or Orijen have in them.


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5 (Feb 11, 2010)

ahhh good catch the salmon does say it is 80 percent protein from meat! still, i prefer multiple protein sources since i dont think Shane has allergies! although being on canidae for most of his life, shane hasnt had much fish in his diet, so i might go to evo herring in a few months.

dog food analysis has the other two TOTW formulas(red meatand duck) in the 6 star category but i do not see the fish one in the 6 star category. either they did not review that formula, or they put it in th 4 or 5 star cateory.

DFA puts canidae grain free in the 5 star category.
in non exact words the site basically says that TOTW is the lowest quality 6 star food, and canidae grain free is the highest quality 5 star food.

IMO id think canidae grain free would be a low-mid range 6 STAR FOOD and TOTW would be a mid range 5 star food.

i mean DFA has regular canidae i nthe 5 star category, idk why they put the grain free there also. oh well.

the TOTW duck looks like a solid food for the price(i hear its around 1 dollar a pound) but it has 2 types of potatoes...oh and which potatoes are worse sweet or regular? and ae peas a better ingridient than potatoes are to add?


Ingredients
Duck, duck meal, chicken meal, *egg product, **sweet potatoes*, peas, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), *potatoes*, roasted quail, roasted duck, smoked turkey, natural flavor, tomato pomace, ocean fish meal, choline chloride, dried chicory root, tomatoes, blueberries, raspberries, yucca schidigera extract, Enterococcus faecium, Lactobacillus casei, Lactobacillus acidophilus, Saccharomyces cerevesiae fermentation solubles, dried Aspergillus oryzae fermentation extract, vitamin E supplement, iron proteinate, zinc proteinate, copper proteinate, ferrous sulfate, zinc sulfate, copper sulfate, potassium iodide, thiamine mononitrate (vitamin B1), manganese proteinate, manganous oxide, ascorbic acid, vitamin A supplement, biotin, calcium pantothenate, manganese sulfate, sodium selenite, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), vitamin B12 supplement, riboflavin (vitamin B2), vitamin D supplement, folic acid.


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## buddy97 (Mar 29, 2010)

i prefer a grain free without potatoe, but most of them use it. some dogs that are sensitive to the alkaloids in potatoe can have inflammation which would be bad for arthritic dogs. most dogs arent that sensitive to alkaloids. sweet potatoes dont contain alkaloids so would be more desirable in the case of arthritic dogs.


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