# Counting down....



## lmgakg (Jan 1, 2011)

Okay, I think I am ready. My plan is to start the starving (I know they will be find, but they act starved if I'm an hour late) tomorrow, so on Friday evening will be the first raw feeding! I found a market that has chicken backs 40lbs for $20.40. I bought containers and a scale (I'm vegan - meat is foreign to me, so I need xtra help) and found a friend with a deep freezer that I can borrow some of the space. So, please confirm fo rme that I've got everything - or correct me if I'm wrong. 

Raja - 1 year old Rott/shepard roughly 65-70 pounds. (68x2.5%) So I will be giving him two meals a day, morning and evening, totalling about 1.7 lbs of chicken backs per day for first 2-3 days depending on poop. (He is ideal weight right now, I expect his neck and head to continue getting thicker, but his body is perfect, very lean and muscular.)

Jivago - 10 year old Maltese, 11 pounds. (11x2%) I will start him out (he's not really a big eater) at a total of .22 lbs of chicken backs per day. Usually I only feed him once a day, but should I split it up and feed twice??? Or should I get chicken wings for him because they are smaller??

I anticipate Jivago not having any problem taking to this idea except maybe for large bones, but Raja immediately spits anything out that I give him that he hasn't had before and stares at me like what the hell did you give me???? Then when Jivago or the cat run in and eat it, he stares at me like moooooommmmmm, did you see that????? And cries until I give him another and then he again spits it out and plays with it and half the time the cat is quicker and swipes his food again! So - with him, I'm gonna have to pour a cocktail first, because it may take awhile! 

Also - I have read all about things that I shouldn't worry about, but what should I worry about??? Jivago has had anal glands removed years ago as they were filling up in just a few days. He is now all of a sudden (he hasn't for about a year) rubbing his butt on the cement - to itch it, and chewing it like crazy so it's all red and inflammed. This is one of the reasons I am going raw. Same with his paws, he is constantly chewing them. I haven't had the chance to get him into vet for a blood test (just routine screne since he's older) nor do I have the finances to do it right now, but I am worried about kidneys and some stuff that I read - nto that raw would HURT him, just that I have to follow a few different rules if his kidneys were bad. Which I have no reason to suspect that they are, but it's just something that I have never had checked out or have looked into. So what would signs/symptoms be that I should be concerned with? 

Thanks again for all of your help!
Lisa


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## lmgakg (Jan 1, 2011)

Okay, this may seem like a dumb question, but member - Vegan here....is there skin that i have to take off of the chicken back?? I know the difference between a chicken breast, leg, and wing....and that's the extent of my meat knowledge!!!


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## mischiefgrrl (Oct 28, 2010)

I'm not a meat eater either. I do very minimal handling of the meat - I don't remove skin or anything. I pretty much only touch it when separating it from packaging for freezing. I separate into serving sizes and put those in ziplock bags for the freezer.

Good luck!


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## SamWu1 (Oct 15, 2010)

Some folks remove the skin and the little bits of organ and fat that's sometimes attached to the frame to ease the transition but that's strictly up to you.

Some dogs adapt better than others. I put my foster on raw the first day I got her, no fasting and zero problems.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

First off, congrats on making the switch. We will be here for you every step of the way!

Second, I suggest feeding only 1% of their weight per day for the first 1-3 days. A lot of raw food all at once can cause issues. Then after they do fine with 1% start gradually increasing to 2-3% of their weight per day.

Third, it depends on the chicken backs but most that I have seen have quite a bit of fat (white) on them as well as organ meat (very dark red/maroon color). I suggest trimming these things off for at least a few days as your dogs are getting used to eating raw to decrease the chances of digestive upset. 

Don't hesitate to ask questions and I look forward to hearing your updates! Remember to stay patient and strong if your dogs turn their noses up initially.


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## Mia (Oct 4, 2010)

Congrats on the switch! Yes we'll be here every step of the way! These people are so wonderful on the forum.

Don't get discouraged. Trust me, my labs at first weren't crazy about a certain meat I was feeding. Now they eat it like it's cherry pie (figuratively speaking):smile:


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## lmgakg (Jan 1, 2011)

*my little guy*

Okay thanks! And my little guy (11 pound Maltese) can have the chicken back too?? It's not too big for him? (I pick up my order tomorrow, so I have no idea how big a chicken back is or what it looks like at all.)


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

It might be too big, just measure it to be sure. If it's too big just chop it in half making sure both pieces are big enough they have to be chewed well.


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## lmgakg (Jan 1, 2011)

*positive....*

I am very positive about this change and patient (have sat and hand fed piece by piece before and given water with a baby bottle when my little guy refused to drink water and ended up in the hospital - I was pregnant and I think he was needing xtra attention!!) I did give a small -quarter-sized- piece of raw chicken breast this morning just to see what they would do and my little guy gobbled it right up and my big boy (after seeing the little guy eat it) ate his too, they both wagged tails and looked at me for another piece. So that was positive I think!!


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## hcdoxies (Sep 22, 2010)

My mini doxies (9-13 pounds) can all handle chicken backs just fine - BUT they have been on PMR for 1.5 years.


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## bumblegoat (May 12, 2010)

Chicken backs are easy to cut. I even chop backs into a fine mash for my cat,, and I only use a good kitchen knife.


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## lmgakg (Jan 1, 2011)

bumblegoat said:


> Chicken backs are easy to cut. I even chop backs into a fine mash for my cat,, and I only use a good kitchen knife.


I know this is "dog food" but I have a cat too and I'm switching him too!!! Natalie said they don't need as much bone and they can handle richer things.....but I'm totally unsure how to start/switch him. He is about a year and a half and has been on kibble since born. Any thoughts/tips???

Thanks!

P.S. - As totally gross as that hunk of flesh is in your profile pic....I can't help but think awwwww, he's sooo cute, when I see your dog so happy with it, lol!!!


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

I use chicken wings and Cornish game hens (baby chickens) to switch cats over to raw. At first I recommend trimming fat and skin off the wings and game hen, cutting the game hens into about 8-10 small chunks, then smashing the bone in wings and game hen pieces up with a hammer or kitchen mallet so it becomes a mushy mess, and then feeding it. Feed this for a week or so until all is good and the cat is doing well.

Then add in other meats. Whole raw fish, chicken hearts/liver, red game meats or beef.


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## lmgakg (Jan 1, 2011)

danemama08 said:


> Then add in other meats. Whole raw fish, chicken hearts/liver, red game meats or beef.


Okay - thanks!!! He has had canned sardines and some canned other little fish before, he loved them!!! I just rinsed them to attempt to get some of the salt off.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

lmgakg said:


> I am very positive about this change and patient (have sat and hand fed piece by piece before and given water with a baby bottle when my little guy refused to drink water and ended up in the hospital - I was pregnant and I think he was needing xtra attention!!) I did give a small -quarter-sized- piece of raw chicken breast this morning just to see what they would do and my little guy gobbled it right up and my big boy (after seeing the little guy eat it) ate his too, they both wagged tails and looked at me for another piece. So that was positive I think!!


which is a really good way to start, i think....little thumbnail pieces just to intro.

if you're squeamy about handling meat, since you're vegan...ya know how in stores they have those disposable gloves you use for picking out doughnuts and bread?

those can be bought and then you're not handling the meat at all....

i agree with natalie about less is more when starting out....they won't starve and you'll know soon enough whether they adapt well or not : )

the best advice i think i could add to what you've already heard is this.

when you hear that first crunch, repeat after me...

THAT IS THE SOUND OF MUSIC. I AM NOT KILLING MY DOGS. :biggrin:


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## tem_sat (Jun 20, 2010)

My doxie, who is also 11 pounds and just started to eat raw, ate his chicken wing this morning. I set a bath towel down in the kitchen and placed his wing on the towel and he ate it right there. What he does is discard a 2 inch or so peice of bone which may crack off that does not have any meat surrounding it. I normally grab that bit and toss it in the trash. 

That has been my only concern so far.

-- Tara


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## lmgakg (Jan 1, 2011)

Nope, touching it doesn't bother me. The blood doesn't really phase me either. As long as it's not on my plate, I'm good. 

And actually, the crunching sound - i don't think - will bother me. My ex-boyfriends dog used to rip the tile off the basement floor and then bring it to whichever room I was in and proceed to crunch it all up!!! He also ate the moldings off the wall, a couch, and I frequently woke up to hearing him crunching on the dresser legs!!! And Raja LOVES to tear up a stick, He chomps and crunches until it's like sawdust. If they are healthy and happy - I'll be fine!! It's the just the anticipation and the wondering right now!!!! I think once I start, I'll be okay....I hope anyway!! :biggrin:


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## 3Musketeers (Nov 4, 2010)

Don't worry about the little guy, give him about half a back, maybe a little less to start out (cutting it down the spine is easy) and let him have fun with it :biggrin:.

My doggies (8-13lbs) ocassionally get backs, I feed em half of one when they do, despite their weight differences, they seem to do fine on that amount.

Depending on how much excercise Jivago does and his current body condition, just adjust accordingly.
As for Raja, you won't be having to cut up anything .


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## lmgakg (Jan 1, 2011)

*freak thing or not....*

I was txting with a girlfriend last night very briefly, and she too is sort of interested in raw, however, she is thinking pre-made raw, so I am not sure where her info is coming from but when I mentioned that I was starting chicken backs tonight (and BTW - I didn't feed the dogs this morning, I just gave them a tiny piece of raw chicken again, which they scarfed down immediately and followed me around all morning, like ummm, Mom you forget to feed us!!!) and she told me to be very careful and she wouldn't feed chicken backs because her cousin's dog ate one that splintered and the dog ended up needing surgery. I clarrified that I was giving a RAW chicken back - which has soft pliable bones, she said that's what this dog had too. Has anyone heard of this or can anyone come up with anything logical??? 

I also called my groomer to talk to her about her thoughts on Raw feeding, she said she really wants to research it, but it seems to make sense and eventually would like to switch her dogs - and so I started going on and on and told her I was dropping off all my info - everything I printed from Natalie and Bill and different chats and stuff and she's ready to switch now!!!! :smile:


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

we should get a virtual billboard for all of us...we get so enthusiastic...

need tee shirts advertising the forum.....
RAW FED DOGS
DFC - dogfoodchat.com

or something clever....too early for me to do clever...

no disrespect to your friend....but what she told you is hearsay. she didn't see it, witness it first hand...it gets to be like whisper down the lane...i swear...

you're right. backs are soft....that's why so many of us start with backs....that's the one bony chicken part i have never seen splinter..they are that soft....so, sorry....whilst i'm sure she means well....i'd either dismiss it or ask to talk to the cousin...and i bet you find out the back was cooked or it wasn't a back....maybe it wasn't even a dog....: )

my groomer, too, is starting to get interested...she recently dog sat for my two and fed them raw...i made it so easy for her...everything was in a glass container. all she had to do was take off the lid...but she decided to sit on their towel and watch and hand them their food....the enthusiasm with which they ate....astounded her.

plus, she grooms them every six weeks and knows these dogs for years....can't believe how soft and thick their fur is and all that goes along with being fed raw...

good for you. tell everyone.

are you starting tomorrow? be a good time, since it's saturday, unless you're working...


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## lmgakg (Jan 1, 2011)

Okay, thank you! It didn't sound right, but I just wanted to hear someone else say the same thing!!!!!!!!! And I suppose the fact that she has only talked to her holistic vet and to 2 pet stores about raw and says she wants to feed pre-made raw kinda makes me doubt her judgement! I'm sure she means well and I love her to death, but I think she needs more info! 

And as for the shirt idea - I'd buy 4 of them!!!! :biggrin: (Me, my daughter, Jivago, and Raja!!!!)


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## lmgakg (Jan 1, 2011)

Oh - and I'm going to feed them raw tonight for the first time!!!! I'm home on weekends, so just in case they need extra potty time outside - I wanted to start on weekend.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

maybe jon and nat will make them... i'd buy tee shirts....

i've looked at pre mades....some actually look pretty good or seem to be good...

for me, though....the problem i have with pre made would partly be the same problem i had with kibble.

I NEED TO BE IN CONTROL. LOL

i just can't wrap my head around pre made. i don't get to decide how much bone or organ or muscle meat....goes into the mix...and i have no idea where the protein is coming from....some have veggies..and i don't want that for my dogs....

oh. cool. do let us know how it goes .....: )

but i understand that people think it's easier, less gross, insert reason here...or it's useful when traveling...


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## lmgakg (Jan 1, 2011)

magicre said:


> maybe jon and nat will make them... i'd buy tee shirts....
> 
> I NEED TO BE IN CONTROL. LOL
> 
> but i understand that people think it's easier, less gross, insert reason here...or it's useful when traveling...



And donate money to a shelter/charity or some good cause!!!! That would be great! I'd help taking orders and shipping!

Okay - I'm with you there, I'll admit it, I'm kinda a control freak too! 

And yeah, I'm sure there are some that are better than others and some may even be good! And I wouldn't say that I won't ever consider buying it for a specific short amount of time for the sake of ease - whether it be travel with me or if they need to be left with someone like grandma who wouldn't be able to feed raw. I'm sure it's better than kibble....but less healthy + more money just doesn't make sense to me for everyday!! But that's just my opinion.


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## lmgakg (Jan 1, 2011)

45 more minutes!!!! I'm weirdly very excited about this!


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## lmgakg (Jan 1, 2011)

*I did it!!!!!!*

My boys ate raw first time!!! I gave Jivago like a quarter of a back, he did not waste any time at all!! He chomped and that sucker was gone - less than 5 minutes. Raja took about 5 minutes trying to figure out what the hell was going on!!! I gave him a whole back. I gave the cat a few chunks, he of course was a natural, well he at first I tried to feed him in the kitchen and he was extremely confused, but he grabbed a piece and ran with it! Then I started packaging up the rest of the chicken I had and they all were just laying there very patiently, anxiously hoping for me to drop some more! So about an hour later, I gave Jivago another quarter and Raja another whole and this time he was very quick about it! They did great!!!!! Thank you everyone for all your advice and patience!!! I'm trying to upload the video right now to utube, but it is taking forever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is them just waiting to be fed the first time!!!


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## Spaz (Sep 3, 2009)

Awesome! Can't wait to see the video.


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## lmgakg (Jan 1, 2011)

Well as soon as I can get the dumb thing to load I will! However it will be with a warning as to how boring it is. Really it is.....and I love them to death. I could't sit and watch it if it was someone else's dogs!!! :wink:

Raja literally licks his for like 5 minutes!!! But it's a good reference for me to have and for me to show my family that really they like it, I'm not killing them!!! My dad comes to my house everyday to watch my daughter, yesterday she told him, mom bought raw chicken to feed to teh dogs. So when I got home from work, oh man, he went on and on for about 20 minutes. I said, Ok, are you leaving now or staying to watch? He left.

But anyway - breakfast this morning was much faster - and again I video'd it, but just cuz I won't member how they did months later. Raja had 2 chicken backs and Jivago had half a back. They were both done in about 5 minutes. I'm sure they still hungry and could probably eat more, however, I'm scared (mostly of the diarrhea/puking) - so I'm going slow!!!!


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