# what if the cure is worse then the illness?



## xchairity_casex (Oct 8, 2011)

So technically this isnt due to a dog but im wondering what i should do.

what do you do if your pet has an illness but you know the only cure is going to make the rest of there life a living hell?
do you try it or not?
is it cruel to not try to treat it if they are in no pain or discomfort?
or do you go ahead with treatment to prolong there life by maybe a year knowing full well its going to be a nightmare for them?

any and all opinions apperciated


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Of course not  - we do that with people and we shouldn't, either. 

I would think that would happen when you think you might actually save a pet, not knowing that they would suffer and then die anyway.


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## xchairity_casex (Oct 8, 2011)

My cat buddy went to the vets today since this last week he has lost more weight i took him in once a while back the vet said it was just due to old age. well he has since lost more he looks at though he is being starved but he eats ALL the time hes always begging for food and happy and runs around and plays all the time so i went looking on the internet and found hyperthyroidism and he has ALL the symptoms including swollen thyroid glands on his neck both sides.

well i took him in he got a blood test and yes hyperthyroidism.
he will need a weekly blood test,and to be given a pill 2-3 times per day but what ive read and what the vet told me is the pills are horrable tasteing to cats and they hate them.
the side effects are depression,lethargy,loss of appitite, something about bone marrow supression,vomiting,diareha,kidney faluire,liver faliure.

now im sure for most people that doesnt sound like much but this guy is 15 years old and he was farral for all of his life basically even though we have never let him outside in his life. we got him as i would guess an 11 week old kitten he was wild momma cat left him on our porch (i already got his siter ginger a few days before hand) but he was so afraid he has only jsut started to come out of his shell these past 3 years he has jsut finally began to trust us when we look at him he doesnt run away and hide,he actually comes up to us to be petted, hes always so contented hes the only cat ive ever known to always have a smile on his face now hes so..happy and all i can think is how stressed out and unhappy he would be on this medication.

and for what? for his kidneys to give out anyways?
but at the same time i feel like if i dont do this im condeming him to certian death of a heart attack some day,maybe some day soon maybe not i dont know.

but i have worked my whole damn life gaining this cats trust i got him when i was 9 years old do you know how HARD it is for a 9 year old to learn to sit still and be calm for hours on end just to get a kitten to appraoch you in your own household or to learn to never look at that kitten or approach him to try petting him? its hard! but thats what i did when i was a kid.

i dont know what to do


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## Donna Little (May 31, 2011)

If I were in your shoes I'd let him go. I think if you have a situation where a dog or cat has to go through a healing process but there's a bright future afterward then yes, by all means go for it. But if the rest of their future is bleak with meds that cause awful side effects and you're basically prolonging their suffering I'd say no and put them down. I hope that doesn't come across as a harsh statement, but a life of suffering is no life IMO.
I'm really sorry to hear your cat is so sick but I know you'll do what you think is best in the long run for him.


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## xchairity_casex (Oct 8, 2011)

well about the only suffering/discomfort he has with the tyroid problem is he will feel hungry all the time so i have been giveing him lots of snacks and keeping a food bowl just for him (not the girls they need to loose a little weight) today he was beggin at the fridge so he got a bit of cheese and turkey and a few green olives. i know its not healthy but he sure loves it.

otherwise he is happy last night he was playing with the girls he would climb up onto the kitchen counter when one of the girls would walk past he would jump on top of her then zoom downstairs i wanted to grab the camera but didnt want to intterupt them.

my poor poor baby i wish the treatment was so hard on cats i wish it could be a once a day pill with no side effects.
his body looks awful compared to 3 years ago he was a huge cat about 15 pounds now i would guess he is down to 8 pounds. healthy snacks be damned though he will get whatever treats and snacks he wants.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

given the information, if this were my pet, i would let go.

sometimes, death is not the enemy. and i'm so sorry you're facing this dilemma. it's a bitch.


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

The last B.T. we pulled out of the Tacoma shelter Has Hypothrodism and she is living on pills every day, she is happy healthy and glad to be alive, despite the side affects. Side effects are always something vets have to tell you, it doesn't mean that she will get them, just like with people and taking medication. If I got every side effect from the medications I take I'd be dead for sure...


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

15 isn't that old for a cat, I have a cat who will be 17 in May. If it were my cat, I'd give the medicine a try first and see how it goes, he may not have any side effects at all..


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

i think the cat is hyperthyroid....not hypo.....the risk of thyroid storm is much greater. unless i mis read that.....which is entirely possible.

certainly, if the cat is not miserable, is eating, and is just tooling along, i'd wait and give the meds a try.

if the cat is miserable, not eating, not tooling along, then i'd probably let go.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Charity I'm so sorry. But this isn't a decision you have to make right now. You can try the meds - if he hates them and is miserable with little quality of life you will know what you have to do.

But you don't have to decide today whether to put him to sleep or start the meds. 

It seems like your REAL decision right now is whether to start the meds at all, or whether to just let him live the rest of his life comfortably.

Rebel's been on thyroid medicine for years but i think his must be the opposite problem of your cat because he has trouble losing weight.


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

magicre said:


> i think the cat is hyperthyroid....not hypo.....the risk of thyroid storm is much greater. unless i mis read that.....which is entirely possible.
> 
> certainly, if the cat is not miserable, is eating, and is just tooling along, i'd wait and give the meds a try.
> 
> if the cat is miserable, not eating, not tooling along, then i'd probably let go.


No, I realize that the cat is Hyper and the dog was hypo but the side effects of the medication is the same...


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## brandypup (Jan 23, 2012)

Well it's a damnned if you do / dont situation. 

HT is treatable and I know many cats who have done well on meds. Would I treat? can't say I am not in that position. All my cats are special needs in some stupid way. 

I tried chemo with my cat bones in a failed attempt and saving her life. It was a longshot but she was going to die anyway so I tried.

Woudl I do it again. I really do not know. I have 6 cats. One is terminal with dry FIP and a mass in the tummy area and only 7 months old. I am not treating. Is it wrong, no in my gut for this cat it feels right. 

My feral cat Pisces just last year let me touch her and I had her since 10/31/2004. Can I treat her with daily pills? Nope I am lucky to touch her for a seconds a day. Her brother. Yea I can pill him, Would I long term probably not. 

I really dont think any one ccan give you a definiate answer. Your really ahve to do what you can with your abilty and your cats personality and heatlh in mind.


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## brandypup (Jan 23, 2012)

Not sure if there is anything useful in here but it's a pretty good site. Mayeb in lue of RX you can find a natural way to support the kitty. 
Search


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## twoisplenty (Nov 12, 2008)

You have several options for your cat. You could try the pill pockets and see if those work. If not, you can get the same medication in liquid form or even put into a gel base that you just run on the inner ear flap where it gets absorbed through the skin. 

I had my thyroid removed several months ago due to cancer. I am Hypo but the side effects can be very similar to Hyper except I have no metabolism whereas Hypers cant keep the weight on. Personally I do think the cure is worse than the illness. I would personally try treatment options then make the decision if its having any positive effect on my pets health.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

there is a huge difference between hyper thyroidism and hypothyroidism.....

with hypo, if not properly treated, the client goes into a coma, then followed by death.

with hyper, if not properly treated, something called thyroid storm occurs followed by death. 

of the two, hyperthyroid is the more serious illness as there is less time for reaction and treatment.

either way, slow or hyper, the treatment is to kill the thyroid and then start meds....

i am not saying to not stop or start meds.

i am saying that given the age of the cat, the condition of the cat..i would have to assess the quality of life and then decide whether or not to let go or treat.

whatever i would do, i would do for the benefit of the cat.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

twoisplenty said:


> You have several options for your cat. You could try the pill pockets and see if those work. If not, you can get the same medication in liquid form or even put into a gel base that you just run on the inner ear flap where it gets absorbed through the skin.
> 
> I had my thyroid removed several months ago due to cancer. I am Hypo but the side effects can be very similar to Hyper except I have no metabolism whereas Hypers cant keep the weight on. Personally I do think the cure is worse than the illness. I would personally try treatment options then make the decision if its having any positive effect on my pets health.


once the thyroid is removed, only the pituitary can over release thyroid hormones....

if the thyroid is still functioning at warp speed, it's far more dangerous...i also no longer have my thyroid, due to hashimoto's thyroiditis, which starts out as a hyper thyroid and then changes to hypo thyroid.

thing with hyperthyroid is what it does to the organs.....the heart beats too fast, metabolism speeds up to warp drive...and no, maintaining weight is not easy at all.

which is why generally, doctors or vets either irradiate the thyroid to kill it, surgically remove it, or give medication to kill it.

either outcome results in a hypo thyroid...and the thick skin, the painful feet and hands, the all encompassing problems from hypo thyroid come to light.

i used to think all it would be was just take a pill and i'd be fine, after they took mine out.

man, was i wrong.


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

IMO, I believe in quality not quantity. 

Why live if your life is going to be unpleasant?



What kind of illness/treatment are you speaking of?

ETA- nvm I read the next post.

He is 15, lived a good life and deserves to die with his dignity intact.


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## xchairity_casex (Oct 8, 2011)

i talked to my vet who said that many elderly cats come thru with hyperthyroidism and she said shes never met one who didnt end up with kidney faliure.

when htey have hyperthyroidism they feel like drinking more when they get on the medication they loose there appitite and thirst hence causeing the kidneys to go down hill.

so i called another vet ive never been to but they are the second best around and talked to them about it who said 
"Honestly,not many of the cats who take the meds are very happy they hate it but ti does work at fixing the thyroid problem!"

oh well thats good atleast.

he is not so bad off that i am considering putting him to sleep he is still active,running aound acting quite content and very playful.
which is why i am so confused on makeing the right decision i keep thinking "yes get him treated ASAP"
but then i think
"hes goign to be miserable,hes going to fear me again its taken you 15 years to gain this cats trust you will break his heart and his soul"

"but his health is so important"
"but so is his happiness"

but which is MORE important to HIM.

where the hell is dr. dolittle


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

i hate decisions like this one. it sucks. 

but ya know? you sound like you're on the fence. when you're ready and you think he's ready, then it's time and not one minute sooner.


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## xchairity_casex (Oct 8, 2011)

im thinking tomorrow i am going to begin calling a few more vets from proably downstate or in other sates and ask about treatment and what others have seen.
and i also think i should see about getting his kidneys tested to see how healthy they are if they are bad off thats going to be a big factor in if i try the emds or not also becuase they could cause more damge to them if they are already damaged but if they are in good condition then i will see about trying the meds for a while,depenindg on what the other vets have to say i would call tonight but its after 5 im sure most would be closed.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

i think that's a good idea...death is final....and knowledge is power...learn all you can so you can thoughtfully make a decision about this beloved pet.


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## xchairity_casex (Oct 8, 2011)

So i began calling vets from all over lower MI as well as wisconson.

quite a few said it is pretty miserable for alot of cats the first 2 or 3 months getting the dosage right.

a few said that depending on there kidneys some cats do very well while if a cat had bad kidneys its usually best to just let them go.

a few said the medications work great and cats love them.

i also was asking how commen it is for the vomitting,depression, and other side effects but got no real clear answer from anyone.

but pretty much most of them agreed that if his kidneys are in poor shape that it would probablybe better for him to not have treatment as i guess many cats with hyperthyroidism usually have kidneyand/or heart problems and that the medications for the thyroidism usually make them worse.

so i schedualed an appointment with our vet for thursday morning to see waht i can find out about his kidneys.

if his kidneys are good im going to get him started on the meds. wish us luck!


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

that's wonderful - I'll keep my fingers crossed for good kidneys


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

xchairity_casex said:


> So i began calling vets from all over lower MI as well as wisconson.
> 
> quite a few said it is pretty miserable for alot of cats the first 2 or 3 months getting the dosage right.
> 
> ...


you can also ask what the meds are and look them up. or i'll look them up for you, if you want.


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## xchairity_casex (Oct 8, 2011)

ive already looked the meds up their are 3 types but 2 only 2 kinds mezol somthing or other and carzol somthing
comes in pill form.
it also comes in gel form your rub into your cats ears which doesnt have as bad side effects but its wicked exspensive. the pills are not though 100 pills for around 20.00.


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## xchairity_casex (Oct 8, 2011)

its only noon and today has been a long trying one. buddy is hidden behind my couch now poor guy it was a terrable day for him. they took 2 blood draws and also took urine from him the hard way.

it was reccomended he not start treatment for the hyperthyroidism due to his kidneys his BUN and creatinne levels were quite high and she has a feeling once he got started on the thyroid meds his kidneys would go down hill.

neither me nor the vet were too suprised like she told me that first day i brought him in that most cats have underlying kidney problems when they have hyperthyroidism along with damage to the heart.

for his kidneys i need to check out his diet and may need to change it he needs a low protien diet. im really tierd right now though and will do some research in a little while.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

are you feeding the cat raw? i would think that raw would be the easiest on the kidneys...lean raw...not fatty raw....

and if you're feeding kibble, maybe a no carb one....with limited ingredients....sorry i don't know the brands well...

and i'm sorry this is happening. sometimes life sucks.


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## xchairity_casex (Oct 8, 2011)

magicre said:


> are you feeding the cat raw? i would think that raw would be the easiest on the kidneys...lean raw...not fatty raw....
> 
> and if you're feeding kibble, maybe a no carb one....with limited ingredients....sorry i don't know the brands well...
> 
> and i'm sorry this is happening. sometimes life sucks.


i have been trying to get them on raw for atleast 3 months now its a no go im gonna keep trying though.

they are on felidae grain free dry and natural balance canned.


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## bridget246 (Oct 26, 2011)

xchairity_casex said:


> So technically this isnt due to a dog but im wondering what i should do.
> 
> what do you do if your pet has an illness but you know the only cure is going to make the rest of there life a living hell?
> do you try it or not?
> ...


If I could know it would be full hell then that would be easier choice to make. With Bridget I'm not sure if it would be hell. She loves life so much that even when she was really sick she always seemed to smile and want to show off. When something is bothering her she just keeps on plugging because she'd rather spend all the time she has exploring and just enjoying her time here whatever time that might be. I think if she had a choice she'd probably opt to live through it and if she couldn't make it I'd know but I'd at least would want to give her a chance.

Wait, I didn't read the OP enough. LOL Bridget has been there already. She cured the illness herself without the help of those stupid vets. I didn't do it because it seemed like she'd suffer and would probably die that way. I just wanted to give her the best chance at life even if that meant taking a huge risk in losing her faster.


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## xchairity_casex (Oct 8, 2011)

i was looking t another treatment its one or two injectionsand thats it but its like radioactive so it can only be given in specific facilitys and the cat has to stay like overnight. im looking around for the nearest facilities


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

xchairity_casex said:


> i was looking t another treatment its one or two injectionsand thats it but its like radioactive so it can only be given in specific facilitys and the cat has to stay like overnight. im looking around for the nearest facilities


they are talking about irradiating her thyroid? which will then make the cat hypothyroid....that's a general course of action for humans with hyperthyroidism....

how is the cat doing?


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## xchairity_casex (Oct 8, 2011)

yes i think thats it he is doing well still happy and content thank goodness, though his hips look horrendous sticking out but he has been very playful and cuddly lately.
his sister ginger knows somthing is up with him i think as she has been fallowing him around like a hawk just watching him and sniffing him constantly and always trying to be cuddly towards him.
monday morning i am going to try calling a few vet clinics around to see if i cant find a place semi-near to get the radioactive...somthing.
tried finding centers on google without luck so now its time to get calling


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

i applaud what you're doing. you're both looking out for the cat's quality of life and your options.....


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## xchairity_casex (Oct 8, 2011)

I am sure i seem somewhat cold and emotionless in this thread about buddys death talking about it people get really pissed off at me for seeming so cold and calm and non-chalant about death.
but if i think about the realness of him dieing what it will be like i will go insane and i cant do that now i need to think i need to be clear headed and think of it as nothing more then "oh i am just trying to find new ways to make him healthier thats all"

if i let my emotions make decisions i might not make a good decision.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

xchairity_casex said:


> I am sure i seem somewhat cold and emotionless in this thread about buddys death talking about it people get really pissed off at me for seeming so cold and calm and non-chalant about death.
> but if i think about the realness of him dieing what it will be like i will go insane and i cant do that now i need to think i need to be clear headed and think of it as nothing more then "oh i am just trying to find new ways to make him healthier thats all"
> 
> if i let my emotions make decisions i might not make a good decision.


i don't think you're cold....death is part of the circle....and will not be ignored....it can't be stopped....

but getting to that decision can take a little time and you're allowed that....i never got the impression that you were cold about this......i think, inside, your guts are in knots.


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