# Problems When Feeding Raw



## SpooOwner (Oct 1, 2010)

Sometimes when I tell someone I don't know well that I feed raw, the person responds that he/she tried raw but their dog didn't do well. Most of the time, when I have these conversations, I'm not in a position to talk in depth about what he/she tried and what problems developed.

Yesterday, I finally got to talk to one of my instructors, who has a dog that developed problems on raw. She acknowledged that it was owner-error. She fed pre-made raw, and fed the same exact "cut" for five years - she never changed proteins or manufacturers, and never fed prey model. The dog developed multiple health issues. I have a feeling that this is a common story.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Yikes. But the reasoning makes sense - people feed the same dry dog food every day for years, why not raw? Wonder if the raw she fed even had bones or organs in it.


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

I would think even with pre made, you would still have to rotate to get all the nutrition needed. There is no way of knowing how much of what is in each pack. Bones, organs etc. I don't know if you can stay with just one variety of pre made and it be "complete." The whole point of raw is variety. Otherwise, you would be missing key nutrients.


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## SpooOwner (Oct 1, 2010)

I asked her about the bone and organ content. She said that the food was a mixture of bone, organ, and muscle meat, but she didn't remember the percentages (it was years ago that she fed raw). I didn't ask too many questions about which mfg, as I don't think it really matters. I think the take-home message, whether you feed prey model or pre-made, is that you need to feed a variety of foods. (Of course, a second take home is that PMR is the way to go, but that's another discussion.)


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## twoisplenty (Nov 12, 2008)

I have seen some pre-made raws out there called "mushers mix" that claim to have fish, beef, chicken, bones and organs all in one big mix. They advertise that its a complete balanced diet, no need to rotate foods. 

Personally I prefer whole chunks of proteins like chicken legs, turkey legs etc that my dog has to work at to eat over ground products.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

I've heard this a lot too, and if I'm not in the position to ask questions and discuss I always ask myself in my mind of what they did wrong LOL


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

i often wonder about the failures i hear about also.....and i want to ask them a zillion questions so i can figure out what the owner did wrong. 

so often it's the owner.

there is a woman who lives in my community with a shiba inu. the dog is allergic to all proteins except soy. i could not even bring myself to ask a single question or make a single comment...yes, i know...it is me we're talking about, but i couldn't. it just seemed so out of the ball park....i simply didn't know where to start.


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## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

Thats like a dog that lives near me. Apparently allergic to all animal proteins, so it's a vegetarian. 
However, I slip her dried lamb lung treats almost every day. Even let her gnaw and eat a whole bullystick with absolutely no adverse reactions mentioned by her owner, and believe me, she would have told me if there were any. 
Makes me wonder exactly what sort of tests were done to determine to sentence this dog to be a lifelong vegetarian.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

MollyWoppy said:


> Thats like a dog that lives near me. Apparently allergic to all animal proteins, so it's a vegetarian.
> However, I slip her dried lamb lung treats almost every day. Even let her gnaw and eat a whole bullystick with absolutely no adverse reactions mentioned by her owner, and believe me, she would have told me if there were any.
> Makes me wonder exactly what sort of tests were done to determine to sentence this dog to be a lifelong vegetarian.


makes me wonder, too....


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

I made the mistake of asking questions of two people on a private FB group from another dog forum. I got ripped into because the people said they did it right, they aren't stupid, their dogs just didn't do well on it (both german shepherds, two diff owners). 


So I tend to keep my mouth shut now :X


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## MissusMac (Jan 6, 2011)

This is an awkward situation, and I had similar issues with my BFF. She tried raw earlier this year after seeing how well Miko did on it, but her dog never got over the cannon butt so she quit. I worked with her to try and figure out what she was doing wrong, but never found a solution. It's frustrating.


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

Ya it makes me sad that some people cant admit that THEY were the problem...or heck, even be willing to listen when other try to help them work thru it!

But then again lame a$$ excuses about why NOT to be on raw burn me up too...and NOT the people who have NO room, or those who dont know about it at all, the people who claim to have no room, but could EASILY keep at least a week or 2 worth of food in their freezer, or the people who say that its just too much trouble, when they will be on the computer and/or watching tv for longer then it would EVER take to prep PMR...and a few others that Ive heard!!!! 


But ya.....this is all oh SO good for my blood pressure.......NOT!!!!LOL :tongue:


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## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

I think it's mostly human error, that being said, know thy dog and know that some dogs may need a modified version of a prey model raw diet. Tessie can't have much white meat at all in her diet, or she loses weight very fast- and she eats around 10% of her body weight. Bishop can eat anything and thrives off white meat.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

Do you guys think that raw will ever just *not* agree with some dogs? No matter what? Is it the best food for EVERY dog out there?


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## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

Honestly, no. That's like saying that some people don't do well on natural, unprocessed diets. It doesn't happen. Now, prey model may or may not be the best raw diet out there.. there's just not enough research to say. Different dogs may do better on small variations, especially dogs with a health issue such as Sara's BRT. But no matter how you look at it, unprocessed and natural foods are vastly superior to processed foods.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

I ask because I think the thought process behind it is superior.

But I've had a lot of people tell me that their dogs simply didn't do well, even though they did it right. (Dunno how true this is). Cannon butt, losing tons of weight. 


These are the people that say their dogs just don't do well on higher quality foods too, and feed Pro Plan because they feel their dogs have been bred to just do better on that food or something like that?


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## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

Dogs haven't been selectively bred for their digestive system to change.. and it remains like that of a wolf. I've had people tell me their dog's mom ate Ol'Roy so it's the best food for the pup because they were nursing from the mom when she ate it. It's BS. Evolution doesn't happen that fast.

Losing weight does have some merit. Tess doesn't do well on mostly white meat and she lost weight in her transition. People may get discouraged and just give up. Dogs fed a lifetime of kibble don't have the same digestive juices as a raw fed dog because the diet is completely different.. it takes time to build up. Some dogs have a sensitive stomach. All in all I think most people just give up too soon, and then blame the raw diet.

I do think there is a use for kibble, convenience and cost, but to say it's superior would be wrong.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

Yeah, I gave up arguing. I got teamed up on lol. I don't like to discuss eating anymore...


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

meggels said:


> Do you guys think that raw will ever just *not* agree with some dogs? No matter what? Is it the best food for EVERY dog out there?


No I dont, and like Caty said....its all about human error. 

That is the only way that an all natural diet doesnt do well with any animal, human, dog, cat, etc!:wink:


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

People will put up with all kinds of problems with dogs on dry dog food - allergies, digestive issues, etc. etc. Most never even consider not using dry dog food, even though they may change the label or the protein, etc.

Yet if a dog does not do well on raw food from the first, lots of people throw up their hands and give up. Which is why I very, very much admire the people whose dogs have some issues and they stick with it to get it right. It's much easier to go back to dry food.

Honestly, I don't know what I would have done. Both my dogs did well from the first. 

Sometimes I wonder if I would have had the determination I see people here have - peeling skin off meat, having lots of diarrhea. etc etc. It's very easy to blame the problems on the diet and give up - not so easy to change the operator to make it work.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

meggels said:


> Do you guys think that raw will ever just *not* agree with some dogs? No matter what? Is it the best food for EVERY dog out there?


actually, i do.

there are some old dogs and some sick dogs who simply cannot tolerate raw.....and that's when i recommend cooking.....i'm not talking about being toothless.....they're just old and can't eat the way they used to eat.

like my grandmother had to eat very plain non rich foods when she got into her eighties.....because her system was tired.

other than that, no. there is no reason a dog cannot eat raw. 

i would say it's one part "Oh My G'd, this is just too much work", 

to one part user error.

but in the end, no matter what rationalisation people talk themselves into believing, the dog suffers.


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

meggels said:


> I ask because I think the thought process behind it is superior.
> 
> But I've had a lot of people tell me that their dogs simply didn't do well, even though they did it right. (Dunno how true this is). Cannon butt, losing tons of weight.
> 
> ...


Most people who think they are doing it right continue to feed lots of chicken because it is a budget friendly way to feed a raw diet..In reality dogs can't thrive on a chicken and organ only diet or chicken, beef heart, organ diet.. Dogs need variety and do best on a mostly red meat diet! JMO


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## Tobi (Mar 18, 2011)

whiteleo said:


> Most people who think they are doing it right continue to feed lots of chicken because it is a budget friendly way to feed a raw diet..In reality dogs can't thrive on a chicken and organ only diet or chicken, beef heart, organ diet.. Dogs need variety and do best on a mostly red meat diet! JMO


I agree, most people aren't doing it right... case in point...

Waggles, the little foster we had, the woman that took him is not really "interested" in feeding raw, she just does it because he doesn't smell like a dog, and he doesn't have lots of poops. well... wrong reasons, I told her she would be best to do it right, and take the time to learn or just put him on a decent kibble. :sad:


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