# should I euthanize?



## thegoodstuff

Java, my 14 y/o male pit/lab has had weakness in his hind legs for more than a year (also some recent strange poop habits - going on the carpet when Im standing just 10 ft away and peeing on the floor not 2 ft from me. He'll go out to the deck and walk down to the ground and pee (good) then turn around and poop on the deck (bad) The weakness has gotten worse until going up the stairs has become very difficult, he has to take one step at a time, his breathing sounding like a power lifter at a gym for each push. I put non slip pads for him to stand on so he doesnt slip on the linoleum floor while eating. Recently put him on tramadol 100mg twice a day for his arthritis, he weighs 85-90 lbs. Over the last week, he has had trouble going _down_ the stairs. He cant seem to brake at the bottom and he stumbled once. I put up a cardboard box crumple zone against the concrete wall adjacent to the stairs. No more going down unattended. He has stumbled and fallen several times since, 2 or 3 times when I was holding his collar. After the last one, he started limping on his front leg. To the vet the next day. The xray revealed a bone tumor, quite large. The options are amputation, chemo or euthanasia. The first 2 are out because of his age and other problems like the weakness and ascites in the belly, possibly the begining of dementia; he's been hypo-thyroid all his life. He said its not like I would be robbing him of the time, he has had a long life. He pointed out the tumor is advanced and what happens if he falls again and the bone shatters? Then I would have an emergency, and he would be in _extreme_ pain. Upped the tramadol to 150mg 3 times a day since this diagnosis. In the last few weeks, he has been doing this poignant, almost pleading bark, when I go out to check on him, he is just lying there and everythings ok. I have to carry him up stairs now.

I know these tumors are very aggressive and metastasize to the lungs, but he was just a dog with arthritis and some weird behavior the day before. Big appetite, wags his tail, plays with the other dog, alerts when he hears "cookie" or "treat", etc. I am in a state of shock. I raised him from 8 weeks. I dont know if I can do it. At best, the vet is gonna have to call for an ambulance for _me_ if I do. I wont be able to remain calm and collected during it; I will be be beside myself, which is bad for him. I'll hate myself later if I dont stay with him. The vet said 'you can make an appointment for _next week_ (WTF) so you can do it with me' (he's a good guy/vet). Make an appointment. Like it was a nail clipping or a shampoo. Just take him, wagging tail and all, to...that. And then have to walk away from him. Do I have to do this?


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## MollyWoppy

I don't know what to say, other than you are making a decision 99% of us here will have to make at some point. And, 100% of us are absolutely dreading it. I will feel exactly the same way you are feeling right now when my pup's time is near. I'm trying not to cry for you and my heart hurts knowing what you are going through. I don't know what to say otherwise, other than to let your pup tell you when he's ready. You'll know. ((Hugs)).


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## committed2excellence

My girl went through a similar degenerative illness minus the tumors for over a year. Quality of life was good and she ran and played with her life mate. Specialists said she wasn't in pain but was uncomfortable. Last Tuesday she let me know that she was "ready". Day after tomorrow, my vet will come to my home and we will help her to the Bridge. Pay attention to your dog and don't let him linger too long.


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## mischiefgrrl

I'm sorry you are finding yourself in this place to make this choice. I've had 4 pets pass and only 1 was euthanized. I was fortunate my dog Buster never let on just how ill he was until his very last day and he passed at home on his own in my arms. My kitty Oliver had been ill and two weeks after Buster, fell from a chair and broke his spine. I took him into an all night animal ER and had him put down. It was best for him, he was frantic that he couldn't move his back legs and knew it was time to go. I actually wish I had put my kitty Champagne down because in his last night, he was in horrible pain and it was too late to take him to the vet. He had been ill with kidney failure for several months and could no longer use his hind legs. I made a cart for him so he could pull himself with his front legs and we had several more months of him purring and loving us before the end.

Death will happen naturally no matter what. I'm not one to give up the moment my best friend is diagnosed with a terminal illness. It's up to you and if you feel he is suffering more than he should.

**Hugs** to you.


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## catahoulamom

My heart aches for you. I went through the last November with my 16 year old rottie/chow mix. I am only 20, she "raised" me.

The answer to your question will come to you when it is time. With CJ, it was a small melanoma on her back, surgery to remove it. She still wagged her tail and went on walks with the pack every night after healing, her appetite wasn't as great as it once was but she was eating. Then the cancer metastasized in her eye, removed it. Stopped eating as much, only went outside to potty, no longer wanted to bark at passer-bys at the fence. Didn't interact with the other dogs anymore. She would go to her bed and lay down, and I would lay next to her for hours, just watching her face, memorizing every detail while stroking her. Her breathing was labored - she would just stare at me and I knew it was time. I think she already had a foot on the other side, all she needed was for me to do that one last most self-less act for her.

I called around and found a vet that would come to the house. I could not imagine our last drive together being on the way to the vet. She would be nervous and uncomfortable at the vet. I made an appointment for two days later. I called a few hours later to make the appointment for the next day, no need to make her wait longer for my sake. The whole family pulled their mattresses out into the living room and slept there with her in the middle of all of us. I stayed up most of the night listening to her breathe. The next day we lit candles and put on some soft music before the vet got there. My aunt came over to take the other dogs out for a walk and she fell asleep in our arms. 

Only you will know when it is time. Your boy is lucky to have had you for 14 years, as you are to have had him for that long. I will be thinking of you both.


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## thegoodstuff

I know what you are all saying. I know this happens to everyone. I will not be one of those poor people that wont let their dog die.
I dont want to do it thats why I am looking to you guys for advice -- What about the potential for the shattered bone scenario? That scares me the most.What about the rapid decline to be expected from this dx? Something could happen while Im out of the house - that would be unthinkable, the guilt would crush me.

If I wait, he could end up in way more pain than he is in now before he lets me know.
the vet says this happens all the time and this is what is best for the dog. What do I know?


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## committed2excellence

I think that you are answering your own question. Believe me, I know it's hard. The last couple of days for me have been trying and the worst isn't even here yet. I am comfortable with my decision and I believe that I have done right by my girl for 13 years. The bone cancer that you speak of can be treacherous. Let him go on a good day


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## mischiefgrrl

> In the last few weeks, he has been doing this poignant, almost pleading bark, when I go out to check on him, he is just lying there and everythings ok. I have to carry him up stairs now.





thegoodstuff said:


> I know what you are all saying. I know this happens to everyone. I will not be one of those poor people that wont let their dog die.
> I dont want to do it thats why I am looking to you guys for advice -- What about the potential for the shattered bone scenario? That scares me the most.What about the rapid decline to be expected from this dx? Something could happen while Im out of the house - that would be unthinkable, the guilt would crush me.
> 
> the vet says this happens all the time and this is what is best for the dog. What do I know?


It seems to me you already have the answer. I think if I was in your position, I would choose to euthanize. He's letting you know it's time. I know that idea of bringing him into the vet and just walking away is a horrible thought. Could you get someone to come to your home and do it?


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## magicre

thegoodstuff said:


> Java, my 14 y/o male pit/lab has had weakness in his hind legs for more than a year (also some recent strange poop habits - going on the carpet when Im standing just 10 ft away and peeing on the floor not 2 ft from me. He'll go out to the deck and walk down to the ground and pee (good) then turn around and poop on the deck (bad) The weakness has gotten worse until going up the stairs has become very difficult, he has to take one step at a time, his breathing sounding like a power lifter at a gym for each push. I put non slip pads for him to stand on so he doesnt slip on the linoleum floor while eating. Recently put him on tramadol 100mg twice a day for his arthritis, he weighs 85-90 lbs. Over the last week, he has had trouble going _down_ the stairs. He cant seem to brake at the bottom and he stumbled once. I put up a cardboard box crumple zone against the concrete wall adjacent to the stairs. No more going down unattended. He has stumbled and fallen several times since, 2 or 3 times when I was holding his collar. After the last one, he started limping on his front leg. To the vet the next day. The xray revealed a bone tumor, quite large. The options are amputation, chemo or euthanasia. The first 2 are out because of his age and other problems like the weakness and ascites in the belly, possibly the begining of dementia; he's been hypo-thyroid all his life. He said its not like I would be robbing him of the time, he has had a long life. He pointed out the tumor is advanced and what happens if he falls again and the bone shatters? Then I would have an emergency, and he would be in _extreme_ pain. Upped the tramadol to 150mg 3 times a day since this diagnosis. In the last few weeks, he has been doing this poignant, almost pleading bark, when I go out to check on him, he is just lying there and everythings ok. I have to carry him up stairs now.
> 
> I know these tumors are very aggressive and metastasize to the lungs, but he was just a dog with arthritis and some weird behavior the day before. Big appetite, wags his tail, plays with the other dog, alerts when he hears "cookie" or "treat", etc. I am in a state of shock. I raised him from 8 weeks. I dont know if I can do it. At best, the vet is gonna have to call for an ambulance for _me_ if I do. I wont be able to remain calm and collected during it; I will be be beside myself, which is bad for him. I'll hate myself later if I dont stay with him. The vet said 'you can make an appointment for _next week_ (WTF) so you can do it with me' (he's a good guy/vet). Make an appointment. Like it was a nail clipping or a shampoo. Just take him, wagging tail and all, to...that. And then have to walk away from him. Do I have to do this?


no. you do not have to do this. this is your dog. your decision.

having said that, and i'm so sorry you are at the point where you're asking the question...and thinking in that direction.....ask yourself why you're asking the question and why you're thinking that you need to let him go to a place where there is no pain, no dementia, no arthritis......where he can sleep peacefully, run up and down steps....

as his friend and owner, the greatest gift you can give him is the unselfish choice of giving him back to the universe.....bone tumours are not only aggressive, they are very very painful. you love this dog. i can tell by the way you speak about him...he's your best friend...now you have to make a decision that none of us ever ever ever want to make, but if you're asking about euthanasia, then somewhere in the back of your head, you know it's time.

and, as hard as it is on you, being there is the last gift from you to him....he has been there for you since you got him. staying with him at the end is what you need to do.....

if this were my dog, i would put him to sleep and give him to my grandmother who takes care of all of my dogs until i get there.....

i would rather take a month of life from my dog than put him through one moment of hard pain. and i'm so sorry that i am saying this....but you asked. and i think you want a truthful opinion.


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## catahoulamom

Magicre, that was a great post. Also, as committed2excellence said, "Let him go on a good day". Don't wait until the bad days out-weigh the good ones.


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## RawFedDogs

I am very sorry for you and Java. This time comes for all of us. I am very near having to make the same decision about my Abby. It is a very difficult time in life but something we can't avoid.

Re-read your OP. The answer is there. See if you can get the vet to come to your house. Either way, have some one with you. Someone you feel close to. A spouse, SO, best friend, mother, dad, sibling. The person who you feel closest to if possible. Stay with Java through it all. It will be very peaceful. He will simply go to sleep.


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## Jynical

My heart is just breaking for you. Like other posters have said, I think you have the answer.

Since you're really wanting advice... I would make an appointment - either to go to the vet, or to have the vet come to your home. My inlaws last chocolate lab, Bailey, had bone cancer and he wasn't euthanized until after he ran out the door after a squirrel and his back leg shattered. It was traumatic for all of us. He had slowed down quite a bit in his advanced age, but hadn't really shown any other signs of being ready. He still ate, still drank, still played... But yes, the bone shattering is a real possibility. 

I didn't read it in your post, has the vet given a time-line at all? Any idea of how aggressive it is?

Again, love - I do not envy you your decision, you are not alone. <3


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## magicre

RawFedDogs said:


> I am very sorry for you and Java. This time comes for all of us. I am very near having to make the same decision about my Abby. It is a very difficult time in life but something we can't avoid.
> 
> Re-read your OP. The answer is there. See if you can get the vet to come to your house. Either way, have some one with you. Someone you feel close to. A spouse, SO, best friend, mother, dad, sibling. The person who you feel closest to if possible. Stay with Java through it all. It will be very peaceful. He will simply go to sleep.


make sure you follow your own advice with abbie, dear friend.

our vet will come to our house for malia....when her time comes...we've made the arrangements and she knows him...honey has been to every one of our dog's death days....and then we cremate them and my avatar is where they rest.....we've had four in the past two years....and ya know? i never get used to it..not in all these years....never.


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## Liz

I remember my last three dogs. I had to euthanize all within a year as they were of such close age. It never got easier but at least I was with them and the last face they saw and touch they felt was mine. They were always there for me when I needed them and the least I could do was be the loving hands to hold them and the soft voice to talk to them and tell them how much I loved them as they made this transition. I bawled like an infant and don't even remember the rest of any of those days. I am sorry for your having to make this decision. You know your pup and know what is needed.


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## thegoodstuff

magicre said:


> no. you do not have to do this. this is your dog. your decision.
> 
> having said that, and i'm so sorry you are at the point where you're asking the question...and thinking in that direction.....ask yourself why you're asking the question and why you're thinking that you need to let him go to a place where there is no pain, no dementia, no arthritis......where he can sleep peacefully, run up and down steps....
> 
> as his friend and owner, the greatest gift you can give him is the unselfish choice of giving him back to the universe.....bone tumours are not only aggressive, they are very very painful. you love this dog. i can tell by the way you speak about him...he's your best friend...now you have to make a decision that none of us ever ever ever want to make, but if you're asking about euthanasia, then somewhere in the back of your head, you know it's time.
> 
> and, as hard as it is on you, being there is the last gift from you to him....he has been there for you since you got him. staying with him at the end is what you need to do.....
> 
> if this were my dog, i would put him to sleep and give him to my grandmother who takes care of all of my dogs until i get there.....
> 
> i would rather take a month of life from my dog than put him through one moment of hard pain. and i'm so sorry that i am saying this....but you asked. and i think you want a truthful opinion.


I know staying with him is the only choice. I just dont know how Im gonna do it without freakin out. The last thing I want is it not to be peaceful for him to. Thank you magicre, 





Julie said:


> Only you will know when it is time. Your boy is lucky to have had you for 14 years, as you are to have had him for that long. I will be thinking of you both.


Very good point, thanks.





mischiefgrrl said:


> It seems to me you already have the answer. I think if I was in your position, I would choose to euthanize. He's letting you know it's time. I know that idea of bringing him into the vet and just walking away is a horrible thought. Could you get someone to come to your home and do it?


Someone cautioned me against that because that because it makes the house a place of bad memories. Though it would be a much shorter distance to my bed.




committed2excellence said:


> The bone cancer that you speak of can be treacherous. Let him go on a good day


Thats powerful.



magicre said:


> no. you do not have to do this. this is your dog. your decision.
> 
> having said that, and i'm so sorry you are at the point where you're asking the question...and thinking in that direction.....ask yourself why you're asking the question and why you're thinking that you need to let him go to a place where there is no pain, no dementia, no arthritis......where he can sleep peacefully, run up and down steps....
> 
> as his friend and owner, the greatest gift you can give him is the unselfish choice of giving him back to the universe.....bone tumours are not only aggressive, they are very very painful. you love this dog. i can tell by the way you speak about him...he's your best friend...now you have to make a decision that none of us ever ever ever want to make, but if you're asking about euthanasia, then somewhere in the back of your head, you know it's time.
> 
> and, as hard as it is on you, being there is the last gift from you to him....he has been there for you since you got him. staying with him at the end is what you need to do.....
> 
> if this were my dog, i would put him to sleep and give him to my grandmother who takes care of all of my dogs until i get there.....
> 
> i would rather take a month of life from my dog than put him through one moment of hard pain. and i'm so sorry that i am saying this....but you asked. and i think you want a truthful opinion.


It wasnt my idea it was what the vet said. I dont want to be selfish, I know thats the motive for people who keep their dogs alive waaaaaay longer than they should. but I also dont want to short change him, which after reading these comments I realize this is better than an even worse scenario. Should the bone shatter, I'd be begging to have done it sooner.




RawFedDogs said:


> I am very sorry for you and Java. This time comes for all of us. I am very near having to make the same decision about my Abby. It is a very difficult time in life but something we can't avoid.
> 
> Re-read your OP. The answer is there. See if you can get the vet to come to your house. Either way, have some one with you. Someone you feel close to. A spouse, SO, best friend, mother, dad, sibling. The person who you feel closest to if possible. Stay with Java through it all. It will be very peaceful. He will simply go to sleep.


Unfortunately, events have conspired to prevent having someone like that with me. At least I'll still have Nicky. See, thats part of the problem - I live alone and these two dogs have been the only "people" in my life for the last 6 years. I have become way too dependant on them. 

I hope its peaceful. Reading some home vets websites is not too comforting - .the dog may make a final sound (especially if they are usually talkers - Java is). They may take a final deep breath, their whiskers may twitch or shake their heads. Is it as bad as it sounds? I guess even though taking his life is an awful thought, the fact that it is preventing more suffering must be the one to concentrate on.





Jynical said:


> My heart is just breaking for you. Like other posters have said, I think you have the answer.
> 
> Since you're really wanting advice... I would make an appointment - either to go to the vet, or to have the vet come to your home. My inlaws last chocolate lab, Bailey, had bone cancer and he wasn't euthanized until after he ran out the door after a squirrel and his back leg shattered. It was traumatic for all of us. He had slowed down quite a bit in his advanced age, but hadn't really shown any other signs of being ready. He still ate, still drank, still played... But yes, the bone shattering is a real possibility.
> 
> I didn't read it in your post, has the vet given a time-line at all? Any idea of how aggressive it is?
> 
> Again, love - I do not envy you your decision, you are not alone. <3


 The vet said next week, he didnt say anything about Java, just that these tumors are very aggressive. 




Liz said:


> I remember my last three dogs. I had to euthanize all within a year as they were of such close age. It never got easier but at least I was with them and the last face they saw and touch they felt was mine. They were always there for me when I needed them and the least I could do was be the loving hands to hold them and the soft voice to talk to them and tell them how much I loved them as they made this transition. I bawled like an infant and don't even remember the rest of any of those days. I am sorry for your having to make this decision. You know your pup and know what is needed.


I know that there is nothing better for them than to see your face and hear your voice. I'd sob if it was a_ movie_; this is _real_.


You all are much braver than I.




http://the357twins.blogspot.com/2008/11/tattoo.html


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## mischiefgrrl

My heart aches for you and the others going through this right now. I've never sobbed like I did when my Buster passed away. The feeling in your home is going to be empty whether he passes there or at the vet. For me, it wasn't about where they passed but the shock of knowing they weren't going to be there anymore.


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## Jynical

That tattoo is perfect. 

As far as the freaking out... I think that you're stronger than you think. Let the tears flow, it's an homage. But I truly believe that you will have the composure to keep it peaceful. 

<3


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## RawFedDogs

thegoodstuff said:


> Unfortunately, events have conspired to prevent having someone like that with me. At least I'll still have Nicky. See, thats part of the problem - I live alone and these two dogs have been the only "people" in my life for the last 6 years. I have become way too dependant on them.


Where do you live? 



> I hope its peaceful. Reading some home vets websites is not too comforting - .the dog may make a final sound (especially if they are usually talkers - Java is). They may take a final deep breath, their whiskers may twitch or shake their heads. Is it as bad as it sounds? I guess even though taking his life is an awful thought, the fact that it is preventing more suffering must be the one to concentrate on.


When both of my dogs went, they just layed their head down and went to sleep. I could feel them relax.

I kept both of them too long and still regret that. They both went about 6 years ago, within 3 months of each other.


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## Celt

I completely understand your pain and I am so sorry you have to deal with this. We're having to make the same decision for our Old Man. Like yoour Java, he's still wagging his tail, eating and seems to be doing good. I don't know if this will help, but we've decided not to wait until his bad days outnumber his good. When he can no longer do the things that he enjoys because his legs are too weak, or shows that he is in pain, or distressed over not being able to do something then then we will let him go. This is the hardest decision to make but don't think of it has cutting short his time, but allowing him to go while he still has his dignity without the distress of being "incapacitated".


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## catahoulamom

> I hope its peaceful. Reading some home vets websites is not too comforting - .the dog may make a final sound (especially if they are usually talkers - Java is). They may take a final deep breath, their whiskers may twitch or shake their heads. Is it as bad as it sounds? I guess even though taking his life is an awful thought, the fact that it is preventing more suffering must be the one to concentrate on.


I have heard horror stories as well, and that was one of my concerns when we called the vet for CJ. She explained to me that the method she used consisted of two shots - the first one sedates her, so she goes to sleep and is calm, avoiding any traumatizing experiences (for me). The second one is her last shot. It was extremely easy for her... not so much for me, obviously, but she was at total peace. She had been in pain the last two days and although I felt as though a piece of me was gone, a weight was also lifted. I knew she would never hurt again.

So the answer to your question is, no, it is not as dramatic as you read- at least for me it wasn't. Ask your vet about the sedation first. Also, your comment on how in-home euthanasia can create bad memories in the house. It was her home too, where she lived, and I wanted her life to end there too, where she was comfortable. I do have the memory there, and the next few days were agonizing. But, for me, I get some kind of comfort knowing that her last moments were spent in our home.


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## magicre

if you live anywhere near where i am, i will go with you......and if you have to go it alone....let us know on the board and i will private message you my phone number....


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## RawFedDogs

magicre said:


> if you live anywhere near where i am, i will go with you......and if you have to go it alone....let us know on the board and i will private message you my phone number....


As will I if you are within a couple of hours of me.

My big problem with having Abby euthanized at home is she is so heavy that I can't put her body in the car or pickup to get her to the crematory.


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## magicre

RawFedDogs said:


> As will I if you are within a couple of hours of me.
> 
> My big problem with having Abby euthanized at home is she is so heavy that I can't put her body in the car or pickup to get her to the crematory.


there is that.

there are as many reasons to go to the vet as there are to have the vet come to the house...the one honey and i talked about was the wait.

what we came up with was we did not want a death day. once the decision was made at the vet's office that our dog could go anytime soon.....and maybe it's selfish, but i don't want to wait for the day to come when my companion dies...and every day, i'd look at her knowing two more days, one more day....

it's not as if i can call my vet and he'll come over in an hour....it might not be for a day or two....it's hard enough to know the inevitable....i don't know that i could stand the wait.

my dogs are used to going to the vet...they don't love it, but they're used to it....my docs know to sedate first...and then euthanise....and they get sedated as we come through the door...so their suffering is minimised....

it's hard either way, to figure out what to do that is best for the owner, the dog.....taking weight into consideration....which is a valid valid point....

you are right, though, bill....having someone go with you is the only way to get through this.....hard to drive home whilst crying.


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## catahoulamom

RawFedDogs said:


> As will I if you are within a couple of hours of me.
> 
> My big problem with having Abby euthanized at home is she is so heavy that I can't put her body in the car or pickup to get her to the crematory.


Bill - the vet that came to my house also took the body to the crematory and delivered the ashes back to our house. We were lucky to have found her, but maybe there is somebody that offers a similar service in your area (if that is the route you choose to take). 

Goodbye At Home - Euthanasia Services for Pets


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## thegoodstuff

magicre said:


> if you live anywhere near where i am, i will go with you......and if you have to go it alone....let us know on the board and i will private message you my phone number....


I am dumbstruck by your kindness and compassion. Thank you







magicre said:


> there is that.
> 
> there are as many reasons to go to the vet as there are to have the vet come to the house...the one honey and i talked about was the wait.
> 
> what we came up with was we did not want a death day. once the decision was made at the vet's office that our dog could go anytime soon.....and maybe it's selfish, but i don't want to wait for the day to come when my companion dies...and every day, i'd look at her knowing two more days, one more day....
> 
> it's not as if i can call my vet and he'll come over in an hour....it might not be for a day or two....it's hard enough to know the inevitable....i don't know that i could stand the wait.
> 
> my dogs are used to going to the vet...they don't love it, but they're used to it....my docs know to sedate first...and then euthanise....and they get sedated as we come through the door...so their suffering is minimised....
> 
> it's hard either way, to figure out what to do that is best for the owner, the dog.....taking weight into consideration....which is a valid valid point....
> 
> you are right, though, bill....having someone go with you is the only way to get through this.....hard to drive home whilst crying.


 I talked to a vet that comes to the house. In my case, she will take Java with her when she leaves (over 100 lbs, the crematory comes to get the dog.) So there is no sad, creepy wait for me to contemplate the tragedy of it all with him...there. She states the sedative is given first which may sting a little. It takes 10 to 20 minutes to take affect. During these minutes is the time to say goodbye. Then the overdose is given which is fairly fast acting. Having it done at home prevents having to drive to and from. This service does not require advance appointments and is available 7 days a week. They may not be there immediately but usually in a couple hours. (I do have an emergency backup plan - directions to the 24 hour pet ER are already over the visor in the car. They do euthanizations.) The whole idea of having my dog in the place where he is the most comfortable and familiar with seems like the best way to go. Nicky and I will cry together and eventually end up buried in the blankets on the big bed.

I just hope I dont miss it when I get "the look". What about last meals consisting of things he loves but never gets - Big Macs, egg rolls and chocolate frosties? Even some raw -it wont have time to upset his stomach. He's been lookin pretty good, considering. He actually tried bolting after a cat before I stopped him. He sems very content to just lay out in the shade on the cool lawn and contemplate his place in the universe.


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## magicre

whatever rituals will give you a memory for later, is what you can do...

personally, i'd have ever 'no no' food around...and if my dog were to feel like eating, my dog will have it....since malia is most likely the next one on the list ....sigh sigh sigh...we already know of some of her favourite forbidden no dog allowed treats...and if she's up to it, she'll get them...

i don't think you'll miss the look....sometimes, it's a communication with no look, no words...just something a little more off than usual...

but for now, i wish i were with him, lying in the shade, contemplating my place in the universe...

please let us know...and i think having someone come to the house will be a good thing...for you, for him....

re


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## SerenityFL

thegoodstuff said:


> I just hope I dont miss it when I get "the look". What about last meals consisting of things he loves but never gets - Big Macs, egg rolls and chocolate frosties? Even some raw -it wont have time to upset his stomach. He's been lookin pretty good, considering. He actually tried bolting after a cat before I stopped him. He sems very content to just lay out in the shade on the cool lawn and contemplate his place in the universe.


Well, it's not a dog but my rat Lucy and I had a tight, very tight bond and I knew she was going. Right before she died, I got, "the look". Right in to my soul it went. I'll never forget that look. I don't think you can miss it if you are paying attention.

As for food...give that doggeh every last thing that doggeh has ever wanted if you know the time is very soon.

This part of having pets is the part that really sucks. After you've had a good sob, start thinking about all the good times you two had and think about how you gave that doggeh the absolute best it could have. That doggeh was loved and well taken care of. Too many doggehs out there don't get that chance so allow yourself to be comforted knowing you did right by this one.


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## DoglovingSenior

I am new to this forum but know just what you are going through. Late in 1998 I just knew that something was wrong with my "Heart Dog"-he had stopped talking. After visits to the vet & him saying "you know how Rotties can be" but not making any diagnosis, I changed vets. She ran various tests but could come to no real conclusion, and did not like how the test results looked. She referred me to a specialty clinic 120mi away. He was pretty ok in most ways always greeted me at the door, ran & played with his "mate" & me, with the exception of one night he collapsed & I had to rush him to the all night Emergency clinic and he didn't talk.
I drove him to the Specialty clinic and it was as if he had saved all of his energy until then, when I let him out of the car, he collapsed & I had to get help (110lbs)-they brought a stretcher to move him inside. I talked to the oncologist-Attila had revived by then, he asked was he friendly or did he need a muzzle. "No, let him sniff, talk to him for 10 seconds & you have a friend. He was given ultrasounds etc. The vet delivered the bad news that he had harmangiosarcoma of the spleen-I had never heard of it . He said that he could operate but if the liver was affected, he would let him go. Tearfully I agreed. I asked for some time to play with him and soothe us both and pray that his liver was not affected-after awhile I let him go with the lovely vet tech & went to my car & sobbed until my eyes were puffy and I gulped in air.

After the surgery, the vet came out and let me know that I still had my big boy (darn, I'm tearing up after all these years) told me to keep in close contact with my vet but that we still had a few more good months together. I stayed in a motel and on the 2nd day took him home. He quickly recovered and seemed back to his old self except that he did not talk. I had him over Christmas & we had a big celebration as usual . Oops I forgot that just before Attila became ill, I had adopted a darling little rescue. Our Female didn't like her and the little rescue learned that she was safe with 'Til <lol> Christmas was special our son was home with his young APBT , and we took all of the dogs the 2 Rotties & the APBT for a family photo-the little "yappy" dogs-no offense meant-were grabbed up by their owners to protect them from our crew who did not even look their way<lol>.
My mom was at the house all day while my (then) spouse & I worked. I took 'Til to the vet weekly and noticed that he was having a difficult time keeping foor down and was losing weight. Finally his weight was down to 80 (he was not fat even at 110) I said that I would keep trying. Finally one day my mom told me that he would lie on the couch in the sun room & when he heard my car would rush to the door. I looked at him and called the vet & told her this but that I wanted her opinion. I was desperately seeking some sliver of hope in order to keep him with me! On what was to be his last visit, the vets staff had lined his path from the front door to the treatment room with "cookies". which he ate (and later threw up). His weight was 75 lbs. I asked her would she come to my house-she agreed. That night I called my son-he flew home to say goodbye ('Til was his dog-became mine when my son went to college-that night he just moved into our bedroom-weird)He told me to let him go. He returned to his home. The next week I spent all of my time with him I searched his face & finally his eyes said that it was past time. I promised him that MY selfishness, would never cause another dog that I loved to go thru the agony that he must have been in. I called the vet-she would come the next evening. That day I took him for a ride by himself, let him hold his head out the window, stopped and bought 3 Hersheys choc bars & he ate every one of them. I hugged him tight and told him what he had meant to me.
The vet arrived shortly after we returned him (the day before My husband had called a funeral home & their grave digger had been out that day to dig a grave) I had called the animal cemetery people & purchased a coffin-the only dog that I have not cremated-I still wanted him close to me. I laid him bed in the sunroom & let the 2 females say goodbye-then took them to the back, they were now friendly. My mom, spouse & I were there-when the tech moved to his back leg to prepare he looke dup at me and TALKED for the first time in months-it was like he was telling me that I was doing the right thing. I told him that I would be ok and was holding his big ole head & stroking him when he closed his eyes. So peaceful, I was quietly sobbing. The vet helped us place him in the coffin and carry it to the gravesite.
I have since had to pput other beloved dogs to sleep-some at the vets in my lap. One thing though, I have NEVER broken my promise to him not to let any other animal suffer because I wasn't brave enough to face life without them, because I was thinking only of MY pain. Yes, let them go on a good day. Sorry that this was so long-I haven't thought of all of these events for a long time. I have a 12.4 year old male Rottie the rescue that I didn't want but my spouse did thinking it would ease my pain-we got him only 4mths after my Heart was gone, he was about 41/2 months now I will have to make the decision about him. "Give your heart to anything, and it will be broken"


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## SerenityFL

DoglovingSenior said:


> I am new to this forum but know just what you are going through. Late in 1998 I just knew that something was wrong with my "Heart Dog"-he had stopped talking...


Holy cow did that bring out the emotion in me. I know it was not a wonderful time for you but you told it very well in that I could actually picture every moment. You write well...felt like I was reading a book. (I don't mean because it was long, I mean because it was written in the way that other dog story authors have pulled at the heart strings of the reader.)

I'm going to keep that in mind...what you said; your promise to your beloved heart dog. I know that I have held on too long with some of my pets over the years. I feel guilty thinking I didn't try hard enough or find the answer or wait long enough and also feel guilt because I did try too hard and waited too long. My heart cat is going to be extraordinarily difficult for me. She's 14 now. (I recently realized I was off by a year. Great.) I'm hoping it won't be for a long time but when it does come...I hope that I can follow your promise you made to your dog. I hope.

It is never easy and all of them are loved. Some of them, though, there's a special connection and when it comes time, it feels devastating. It's so hard to know when...but letting them go on a good day is something I'll also have to remember. (Which for me is hard because I have that false hope that maybe things will be ok. Land of Denial, Party of One.)

Thank you for sharing. Really.


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## doggiedad

only you know when you're both ready.


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## DoglovingSenior

mischiefgrrl said:


> It seems to me you already have the answer. I think if I was in your position, I would choose to euthanize. He's letting you know it's time. I know that idea of bringing him into the vet and just walking away is a horrible thought. Could you get someone to come to your home and do it?


Are there really vets that won't let you be with your beloved animal at the end? I would have to find someone different. :frown::frown:


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## KittyKat

Knowing when it's time is really hard... but I think we tend to be more kind to our pets then our family. At least with our pets we spare them the agony of suffering for long periods of time. 

For my cat he had cysts on his neck that would burst open and smell so bad... he got them where the vet inserted a needle while they were removing some cancer. We would clean them out with hydrogen peroxide and they would go away, only to return within a few days. His kidneys were shot... we were giving sub cutaneous injections to keep him hydrated... he was doing okay and moving about, even going outside and laying in the sunshine.... until he just didn't really move much anymore. He seemed tired. We knew it was time. It took a couple of months for him to pretty much slide downhill.

It was harder for us then it was him. We buried him under some trees in our side field.

We got Piper a year later... this spring after we started letting her go off leash in our backyard.... she headed over to his grave and licked his headstone. Such a sweet moment.


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## Donna Little

I'm so right there with my tiny boy Tommy. He's a puppy mill Chihuahua that was dumped in the pound almost 5 yrs ago as a senior. His previous "owner" should have been charged with cruelty due to his condition when he was surrendered but that seldom happens in my neck of the woods. I've since fallen head over heels for this dog and can't imagine my life without him. 
He spent the first few months at my house in a dog bed facing the wall, too terrified to do much more. He would interact with my other dogs but would scurry back to the corner if he saw me coming. After about 4 months he started to gain confidence and wagged his tail at me for the first time. It made me cry. All I could think was that this itty bitty little dog had spent his entire life having nothing to be joyful about. He had no idea how to be a dog and no idea what it meant to be loved by a human. After that day though I saw subtle changes in his behavior and by the time he'd been here a year you wouldn't have recognized him as the same dog. He would run to me and put his little paws on my leg to be held and relax in my arms when he'd go to sleep. I probably have a thousand pictures of him. I've also taken oodles of video and I watched one the other day of him playing with the other dogs and it made me want to cry. For the past year his health has been steadily declining. He is almost totally blind (at least I think he can still see shadows) and he now has dementia. The little dog that I've grown to love more than I could have imagined is no longer with me. He doesn't know who I am anymore, never wags his tail, no longer interacts with my other dogs, and has dropped from 4 lbs to 3.8 lbs. He's so thin now and weak that he sometimes falls down and can't get back to his feet. I started him on raw about a month ago hoping I'd see some improvement. He has never eaten well and getting enough food in him has been an ongoing battle. Since being on raw he eats every meal with gusto but is still not putting on weight. It's so painful for me to make the decision about putting him down. When I see him eating so well it gives me hope that he wants to continue to fight. But at the same time I watch him walk in circles sometimes for hours and whine as if he's so lost and confused. I wonder if my Tommy is even still in there at all. Dementia is a cruel demon that no one should have to live with. 
He also has a tumor that the vet doesn't think is cancer but doesn't want to biopsy it to find out due to his age and health. I've never wanted to be the person that lets their dog live too long but I'm not sure that's not what I'm doing right now. I just can't wrap my head around losing him yet. I don't think I'm ever going to be ready for him to go but I hope I'll be able to recognize when he is.


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## NicoleSmith

I don't agree with Euthanasia but that's a very hard place to decide. I guess you will just have to feel it on your own.


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## DoglovingSenior

doggiedad said:


> only you know when you're both ready.


I think that this is one time when WE must listen to THEM - they deserve that much from us even if we are not ready.


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## committed2excellence

NicoleSmith said:


> I don't agree with Euthanasia but that's a very hard place to decide. I guess you will just have to feel it on your own.


So, if the animal is suffering, do you just let them suffer until they die on their own?


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## magicre

NicoleSmith said:


> I don't agree with Euthanasia but that's a very hard place to decide. I guess you will just have to feel it on your own.


what do you do?


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## Scarlett_O'

NicoleSmith said:


> I don't agree with Euthanasia but that's a very hard place to decide. I guess you will just have to feel it on your own.


I am asking the same thing as has been asked by the 2 above me...what would you do then? Just let your dog suffer?! This is a VERY sad subject to me, thus the reason I havent posted before now...as I couldnt even read the OP without crying! HOWEVER your blatant lack of knowledge or care for thought of the suffering of the animal has me riled up.

I had to put my 14 year old Lhasa down 2 months ago, he was my heart dog, we had been together for one week shy of EXACTLY 14 years...worst effing day of my life. However he hadnt eaten in 5 days, couldnt even climb the one step into the house because of his back...which I couldnt give him anything for because he hadnt and wouldnt eat.


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## magicre

Scarlett_O' said:


> I am asking the same thing as has been asked by the 2 above me...what would you do then? Just let your dog suffer?! This is a VERY sad subject to me, thus the reason I havent posted before now...as I couldnt even read the OP without crying! HOWEVER your blatant lack of knowledge or care for thought of the suffering of the animal has me riled up.
> 
> I had to put my 14 year old Lhasa down 2 months ago, he was my heart dog, we had been together for one week shy of EXACTLY 14 years...worst effing day of my life. However he hadnt eaten in 5 days, couldnt even climb the one step into the house because of his back...which I couldnt give him anything for because he hadnt and wouldnt eat.


aw, abi, you're still grieving...i'm so sorry you had to put him down...it is so very hard....isn't it...to give that last gift that only you can give?


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## Scarlett_O'

magicre said:


> aw, abi, you're still grieving...i'm so sorry you had to put him down...it is so very hard....isn't it...to give that last gift that only you can give?


Thank you Re, and Yes I am.
I hadnt seen him in 18 months, and in those 18 month his health had gone down hill FAST! :sad: We hadnt been apart for more then a forced 2 weeks from the time he was 8 weeks old till he was 10, then I left for 5 months, I got him back and we were "us" again within 10 min! Then I moved out a year-ish latter and didnt see him for longer then a hour for the past 18 months.
Beauregard was my heart dog, we did everything together, from biking, hiking, diet change, teaching ourselves agility/graduating high school at 16, he listened to me thru my teenage years, knew hand signals, my facial expressions and last but not least accepted Rhett as part of "us"! Rhett was the one and only dog that he played with for the past 10 years! Every other dog that he met better not touch me or his toys, but Rhett....Rhett he accepted, played with even when I tried to keep him quite and shared everything with; me, toys, water bowl, everything! Rhett he accepted even better then Jesse, which I think...to a point, was a good thing, because Jesse loved him because of my love for him...Rhett wouldnt have understood!

You can see the respect shown here by the then 12 week old Rhett;










(The loss of Beauregard was the reason that we started searching for a 3rd dog, as Rhett was in mourning!:frown

And then sadness shown here, this was the night after taking Beau to the vet and not coming home with him....Rhett got SUPER excited when Daddy got home from work, and set at the gate whining for 20 minutes when Daddy didnt bring Beau in!:frown:


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## Boxers&Pom's Mom

magicre said:


> no. you do not have to do this. this is your dog. your decision.
> 
> having said that, and i'm so sorry you are at the point where you're asking the question...and thinking in that direction.....ask yourself why you're asking the question and why you're thinking that you need to let him go to a place where there is no pain, no dementia, no arthritis......where he can sleep peacefully, run up and down steps....
> 
> as his friend and owner, the greatest gift you can give him is the unselfish choice of giving him back to the universe.....bone tumours are not only aggressive, they are very very painful. you love this dog. i can tell by the way you speak about him...he's your best friend...now you have to make a decision that none of us ever ever ever want to make, but if you're asking about euthanasia, then somewhere in the back of your head, you know it's time.
> 
> and, as hard as it is on you, being there is the last gift from you to him....he has been there for you since you got him. staying with him at the end is what you need to do.....
> 
> if this were my dog, i would put him to sleep and give him to my grandmother who takes care of all of my dogs until i get there.....
> 
> i would rather take a month of life from my dog than put him through one moment of hard pain. and i'm so sorry that i am saying this....but you asked. and i think you want a truthful opinion.


Magicre,
You make me cry with your post. I am also send my dogs to my dad in Heaven. I know he is taking care of them until I get there. I think you are giving the best response to this thread.
Hugs,
Juana


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## magicre

Boxers&Pom's Mom said:


> Magicre,
> You make me cry with your post. I am also send my dogs to my dad in Heaven. I know he is taking care of them until I get there. I think you are giving the best response to this thread.
> Hugs,
> Juana


thank you....it's so hard to do this to my best friends....that i imagine my grandmother taking care of them until we meet....it's what lets me sleep through the night.....hugs back.


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## thegoodstuff

Jynical said:


> That tattoo is perfect.
> 
> As far as the freaking out... I think that you're stronger than you think. Let the tears flow, it's an homage. But I truly believe that you will have the composure to keep it peaceful.
> 
> <3


Yes, Ive been thinking about the tattoo for a long time. I will feel so much better when its done. I dont know about the composure, they may have to dart me like a wildebeest on Wild Kingdom.


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## thegoodstuff

Actually, I was about to start this yesterday, but close to commit time the mission was scrammed, and through no failure of my resolve. The weather started to turn and as I watched the yellows and reds of heavy thunderstorm cells bear down on the little cross-hair that is my house on live radar, I knew I had to abort. You see, if there's one thing that terrifies Java, its thunder. Especially the unimaginably ear splitting, directly over the house kind. It doesnt get any less peaceful. I canceled the vet and rescheduled for this evening. 

ok, it seems today is the day. Java didnt eat his fresh ground beef meal this morning, 2 yesterday only half of each. A tennis ball got no attention. I am subdued and feel hollow inside. I cant (wont?) believe what it is I soon will do. The passages below really put it into perspective for me, though it will be no less painful. 



> I don't subscribe to the idea that dogs "will let us know when it's time", at least not in any conscious sense on their part. For one thing, I've found in my years of counseling folks who have ill pets and often accompanying them through the euthanasia process, that this notion is often interpreted in a way that puts a lot of pressure on people when they're already stressed and grief-stricken. "What if I miss the signs?


So true about the pressure. A week ago I moved my bedroom into the living room and worked on the coffee table for fear of missing it. When he wanted to lay outside on the lawn, I took my laptop and phones and set up on the stoop. Ive been sleeping on the couch as does Nicky. Java prefers to lay on the carpet. Last night I took extra blankets and made a bed on the floor so we could all sleep together one last time. Nicky has started to act strange. Wont eat half the time and seems distant. Sometimes when I call him, he just looks at me.



> Remember, dogs are not afraid, they are not carrying anxiety and fear of the unknown. So for them it's only about whether this day holds enough companionship and ease and routine so that they would choose to have those things more than anything else and that they are able to focus on those things beyond any discomfort or pain or frustration they may feel. How great is his burden of illness this day, and does he want/need to live through this day with this burden of illness as much as I want/need him to? If I honestly believe that his condition is such, his pleasures sufficient, that he would choose to persevere, then that's the answer and we press on. If, on the other hand, I can look honestly and bravely at the situation and admit that he, with none of the fear or sadness that cripples me, would choose instead to rest, then my obligation is clear. Because he needs to know in his giant heart, beyond any doubt, that I will have the courage to make the hard decisions on his behalf, that I will always put his peace before my own, and that I am able to love him as unselfishly as he has loved me. After many years, and so very many loved ones now living on joyously in their forever home in my heart, this is the view I take. As my veterinarian, who is a good and loving
> friend, injects my precious one with that freedom elixir, I always place my hand on top of his hand that holds the syringe. He has chosen a life of healing animals and I know how terribly hard it is for him to give up on one. So I want to shoulder that burden with him so he's not alone. The law of my state says the veterinarian is the one licensed to administer the shot, not me. * But a much higher law says this is my ultimate gift to my dog and the responsibility that I undertook on the day I welcomed that dog into my life forever. *


 Which is what I will do. See ya my brother.

Theres no place like home, theres no place like home...




Pet Euthanasia - Choosing Euthanasia for your Pet


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## Jynical

Y'all are on my mind today.


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## thegoodstuff

I thought I was doing pretty good under the circumstances until now. 

Saturday I saw that Java was looking pretty tired, not the couldnt sleep kind but the_ I need to rest_ kind. It didnt happen overnight but once I surrendered to what needed to be done, I let myself see what I wouldnt before. When he got up from lounging on the lawn for a while, the limp was worse and his back legs were very stiff. We went out for a drive in the morning. It was a beautiful sunny day. He loves to swim but hasnt for quite a while. I wanted him to have the opportunity to at least wade some. But the therapy pool (with steps) wasnt open. There is a lake that has a beach for dogs but I realized that wasnt practical because the walk from the car was too long. So we did the next best thing. Mudding! All his life, much to my chagrin, he has loved mud. Go to the dog park and find the biggest puddle and just lay down in it. Ugh. With all the rain from the night before, the park was well puddled. He was _very_ excited to be back at one of his old haunts after so long. He went out into the field where the grass hadn't been cut in a while and was quite tall. He loves long grass. I think he actually thinks he cant be seen. Like a kid pretending to be GI Joe, he lays flat with his head down like he is a deadly predator on Mutual of Omaha's Wild Kingdom. Never fools me though. I was very happy to see him do the back roll/legs in the air thing, a sure sign of happiness. I ignored the fact he ignored the tennis ball, holding it in his mouth is usually a key component in this maneuver. Then the main event - mud! Mud, mud, mud. He made a fine choice of a 3" deep, 3' across mud pool. He walked into it and without further adieu, kerplunk! Yeah baby! I wish I was as easily entertained.

After that got old, we went home around 1 pm. Stopped at Wendy's on the way and got half a dozen jr cheeseburgers. Back to the cool concrete basement floor and a cheeseburger banquet, didnt even remove the onions. Throughout the afternoon the 'exotic' food kept coming. 2 bowls of pasta with sauce, a ham, egg and cheese omlette, 1 small everything pizza, raw ground chuck, bacon treats and of course, ice cream.

A couple days before, when I picked the backyard as the best place, I started to cut the lawn. Then I remembered about the tall grass, so there was one pass of short grass across the yard and the rest was uncut. The vet arrived and we went into the backyard. It actually was quite peaceful. Java and I lay head to head in the grass. The vet was good with the needles using his back leg, Java didnt notice at all. He went right off to sleep. His chin was on a just worn t shirt of mine, my face was on his head. The last thing he heard me say was that I loved him and that he was a good boy. When she pushed the barbiturate (I completely forgot to put my hand on her's) he very subtly just stopped breathing. She listened With her stethoscope for a heartbeat. There was none. Before anything had started, Nicky had come over from where he was watching this and gave Java a few inspection sniffs. After it was done, I called Nicky over. He approached apprehensively. I told him it was ok. He sniffed Java 3 times again then walked back to the deck and laid down. I called him back over but he wouldnt budge and would only glance over at me and quickly avert his eyes. After a short while the vet said she'd be out front when I was done being with him, leaving the yard and closing privacy fence gate behind her. Before he fell asleep, I had kept it pretty much together for his sake. Now, left with Java in the tall grass, I started gulping air like a goldfish on the living room floor. I moved around next to him and held onto him as if _my_ life depended on it. He looked very peaceful, just like I had seen him sleeping a million times. At that moment I couldnt understand that the last 14 years had come and gone so fast. I am glad that a year ago I promised myself that from then on, I would never walk past him, no matter how many times, asleep or not, without at least a "good boy" and a pat. Now, there were no "if only I had..." Everyday with them is a gift.

I picked him up myself and carried him out front. The vet supported his head while we gently laid him on a sheet in the back of her car. I left the t shirt to go with him. Being a surprise birthday gift in 1997, he arrived with his head sticking out of a huge festive shopping bag that was filled with puppy supplies. I still have that bag, brand new. I gave it to the vet and asked her to return his ashes in it.

I want to thank everyone that posted in this thread. Thanks to you, the burden wasnt quite so heavy.



Home - is where I want to be
But I guess I'm already there
Guess that this must be the place
I can't tell one from the other
Did I find you, or you find me?
There was a time Before we were born
If someone asks, this where I'll be . . . where I'll be

Hi yo We drift in and out
Hi yo sing into my mouth
Out of all those kinds of people
You got a face with a view
I'm just an animal looking for a home
Share the same space for a minute or two
And you love me till my heart stops
Love me till I'm dead

_Talking Heads_









​


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## magicre

you have managed to put into words what i have felt when it's time.

i hope that the memory stays in the forefront of your last day and all the days you had....even the final moments that were so peaceful as he faded away near you as he always was....with mudding and mickie d as the preamble for his next journey and yours....


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## DoglovingSenior

So beautiful. I share in your sorrow.


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## Herzo

Well crap I hope my husband doesn't come home to early. I'm a mess. That was so touching and well to close to home. I'm so sorry for you but so hope your friend is at peace now, and I know he is. You gave him the best possible last day you could. He went out in peace sweet dreams Java.


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## Jynical

I have no words... just sending you a lot of love and peace. <3


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## schtuffy

Rest in peace Java <3


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