# Thinking of keeping my foster dog....



## dogsarebetter (Nov 4, 2011)

I have a dog of my own, Skyler. A large border collie mix.
My foster dog Tashi is a pittie. I have been fostering her for a few weeks now, and she is tugging on my heart strings more so than any foster I have ever had before. (I've had about 25 fosters)

I am considering adopting her but I am just not sure if its a good idea.

She is a pitbull, so there are regulations in some places. 
I am renting. It is hard to rent with dogs... some how the past two landlords allowed me to have dogs and foster. but I know I will not always be so lucky. I think that it would be VERY hard to rent with two dogs, one of them being a pitbull.

My mother hit a hard spot in her life and has been staying with me, soon she will be back at work and the dogs will be alone for 10hrs a day. I do not even know what I will do with my current dog muchless adding another dog. I dont want to leave them in the crate that long, I have no fence (but i can arrange to get one... and i am a little scared of leaving them unattended in a fence)

And also I myself am having a hard financial time. It would be even harder for me with another dog, but it IS do-able

it sounds like i shouldnt adopter her, but I adore her. She is great with Skyler and the cats. she is really no trouble at all...

can anyone here possibly talk me out of adopting her?

BTW she is from tiny shelter here in kentucky. it is a no kill but dogs have lived there for YEARS!!!


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## twoisplenty (Nov 12, 2008)

Its really a hard question to answer. You are a fantastic person for offering your home , love and affection to those who need it while they wait for their forever homes. Only you know if you can afford the resources to keep her. Anything is possible but the worst thing you can do is adopt her to only have to give her back up later in her life. Do you have any pictures of this heart tugger


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## xchairity_casex (Oct 8, 2011)

personally if it were me i would keep her but that is jsut what i would do simply becuase i just know if i let that dog i would always regrete it and always wonder. if its meant to be its meant to be and youll keep her for the rest of her life if its not meant to be and you have to move and cant keep her well then you can re-home her then couldnt you.


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## dogsarebetter (Nov 4, 2011)

as far as rehoming her...
i am scared that i would fell TERRIBLE. My current boy Skyler and my past forever dogs I could never imagine re-homing.
Which in that case, if i adopted her id be darn sure to make it work out. and i guess if all else fails i could find her a good home.

yes i have pictures on my computer at home. I will be sure to share.
she is a CUTE little pit. with an under-bite. black with this amazing expression.
when she gets excited she crawls on the floor on her belly wagging her tail. she's a very silly girl.
she loves nylabones and her and skyler will chew on the same one at the same time. 

I figure that she will be under my care for many months before she gets adopted. my last foster from this shelter was a small maltese mix (6lbs!) who was adorable and knew lots of cute tricks. highly adoptable.... i had her for 9 months
i should have plenty of time to decide to adopt her or not.


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## Tobi (Mar 18, 2011)

We just adopted out our foster that we'd had for more than 2 months, and IT WAS HARD... but it's for the better. We very much considered keeping him, but much like you it's hard to find a place that accepts two dogs, or even one in most cases. I can't really talk you out of not wanting to keep it, I'd say that if you're in a good financial spot, and you think that keeping her would be better for the dog and yourself then by all means keep her :becky:

crate training is awesome, as long as the crates are big enough to allow some movement i see nothing wrong with a dog being crated while you're at work. I used to work 12 hour shifts, i came home for lunch (1/2 hour) took her for a quick run, and then put her back in her crate. After work we would go for another run, and to the park and she'd let all her energy out, she also slept at night OUT of her crate, or stayed up late chewing on her toys. so crating isn't that bad :wink:


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## GoingPostal (Sep 5, 2011)

Well since you are renting, do you know if the insurance on the place even currently allows pit bulls? What if something happens and you need to move suddenly, do you have someone who can take the dogs for months on end or be able to board them if you can't find a breed friendly place? Finding a rental that allows "dangerous" breeds is really hard, I know people who have taken years to find a decent place and more than a few who just live in a crappier place because it's the only one that takes dogs. I own my home and there's only two insurance companies in town that would cover them and it costs me quite a bit more. Other thing to consider is being a pit bull, are you willing to keep her and your other dog apart if they stop getting along or start fighting? Most people aren't and the dog gets dumped, I would never leave her and your dog loose together unsupervised, much less in a backyard, pit bulls are great escape artists and will jump, dig or chew their way out if they are bored or want something on the other side. Crating would work provided they are getting a lot of exercise when you are home but if you are gone 10 hours, you sleep 6-7, doesn't leave a ton of free time but if your dogs are your free time it can certainly work, or get a covered kennel for inside or out. Your dog is male and she's female so that's a plus at least, if you are willing to commit to her no matter what go for it, just be realistic about it.


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## dogsarebetter (Nov 4, 2011)

thanks guys. lots of good things for me to consider.
sadly i cannot come home to let the dogs out because i work out of town. so they would be in the crate for 10 hours solid.
i think that i will go for a covered kennel outside.

and honestly, if she were to repeatedly fight Skyler, she would be rehomed or even taken to the shelter in a heart beat. I will not tolerate dog fights. I've lived like that before and will never do it again.

I still need to learn more about the breed too really. Ive mostly fostered collies/aussie/shelties/border collies until recently.

Tashi and Skyler are best buds now, that could change?


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## GoingPostal (Sep 5, 2011)

dogsarebetter said:


> and honestly, if she were to repeatedly fight Skyler, she would be rehomed or even taken to the shelter in a heart beat. I will not tolerate dog fights. I've lived like that before and will never do it again.
> Tashi and Skyler are best buds now, that could change?


Then don't keep her, I'm sorry but it's ridiculous to get a pit bull, who were created to fight other dogs, and expect it to live happily ever after forever with other dogs, fights happen, a lot of pit bulls even dog friendly ones don't take much to start something and someone can get hurt. The adorable brindle girl in my avatar put multiple puncture wounds in the tan male in a matter of seconds, over food they imagined was there. The fight literally happened underneath my chair and there was two people to break it up but damage was done, if we weren't on top of things it could have been much worse. It was a stupid mistake on my part and since then the new dog is gated in our kitchen while we eat and until everything is put up because it takes very little to trigger a fight but it could have just as easily happened over a stick in the yard, a squirrel outside, over excitement of people coming over, etc. And you might never have an issue but if it's something you aren't willing to deal with, don't keep the dog. Far too many pit bulls get dumped or killed because people couldn't be bothered to do basic research into owning them. Please do some reading on Pit Bull Rescue Central and other places and make sure anyone interested in her does the same and understands the breed.


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## rannmiller (Jun 27, 2008)

I don't think it's necessarily true that all or even most pit bulls with start picking a fight with a dog they've been friends with for so long unless something happened to start the fight in the first place. Then after that sometimes it only takes the tiniest thing to set it off. If I were you, I'd worry about crossing that bridge if/when you get there. I find it can be a lot easier to have two dogs as opposed to one when you are gone all day because then they keep each other company when you're away. 

First and foremost though, consider your finances. WILL you be able to afford a second dog forever or just for now but only if you live off of Ramen for the rest of your life? It's not fair for you or Skyler to have to sacrifice your comfort so you can have another dog, even if she is a wonderful fit for your home when there's a potential other home out there that would love her and spoil her to death. 

As for as renting goes, most places don't have a problem with boxer/lab mixes :wink: so that shouldn't be a problem. Just throwin' that out there.


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## GoingPostal (Sep 5, 2011)

Well that's horrible advice, for one thing leaving a pit bull unattended with other dogs is asking for problems, like a dead dog, trust me, if a fight does break out, you want to be there. And lying about the dogs breed is a shitty thing to do, all it takes is someone to see the dog and you are screwed, homeowners insurance and BSL doesn't care if your vet or you say the dog is a mix, all they care about is how the dog looks so if you get caught then what happens? Dump the dog? Not to mention the last thing this breed needs is more people skirting the rules or laws, they need responsible owners. And no, not all pit bulls will get in a fight, not all labs retrieve either, but it is a very real risk and one this person isn't willing to deal with, management can only go so far and accidents happen. So is it fair to adopt this dog with unrealistic expectations and then dump it later?


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## dogsarebetter (Nov 4, 2011)

a big part of why i want a second dog is company for my current dog. and i do want to leave them alone unattended together.... thats a big plus to having a second dog.

right now, i cannot imagine tashi being aggressive with skyler. they are best buds and play great together. she is still young (8months?) so she is growing up with him.

goingpostal, i completely understand what you are saying.
to me a dog is a life time comentment. i do not agree with rehoming a dog, unless of course its for a reason out of everyones control 

lots to think about.


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## CavePaws (Jan 25, 2011)

I want to make this VERY clear:

If you cannot handle the possibility of your dogs getting into a fight, don't own two dogs. Period. End of story. If you, as a DOG OWNER, are not prepared to separate, discipline, and create a plan of action for these two if for some reason they get into it, then do not keep them both. I don't own a pitbull, and quite frankly, I know more "off breed" dog aggressive dogs, than I do dog aggressive pitbulls. That being said, I believe that anyone owning multiple dogs needs to keep it in mind that a dog fight can break out between the two best of buddies. Now, for most "best buddy" dogs, the occurrence of a fight will be under extenuating circumstances; you won't have to feel like everyone is walking around on eggshells 24/7.

There will be warning signs; so don't think your foster is just going to turn into an uncontrollable beast one day with no clues given. You will see and feel the tension between your dogs if they truly are "best buddies" before your foster just turns into an all out dog aggressive dog willing to injure your other dog. 

I am a fan of crating when not home. I have my reasons, my top priority is the safety of ALL of my dogs. I have a dog aggressive dog, and while she is fairly reliable and even keel with my pack right now, it wasn't always so. In short, I don't trust her for a second to be left unsupervised with my other dogs. One accident and I could have a dead dog; in my eyes that is a dead family member. So, I have an x-pen set up in my house and large crates. When I am at work, they are crated. I come home to let them out at lunch. If I couldn't, and was working a 12 hour shift, then I would have someone come over to let them out. I really don't feel all that bad about crating my dogs, it is for their own good. There are plenty of interactive games you can get them for when they are in their crates.

Interactive Toys and Puzzles

I have not always crated my dogs either. I actually only started crating when I took in Indi (my DA dog) and her sister Pooper; they were both extremely destructive as puppies. Pooper actually busted through an in window air conditioner unit, twice, to get outside. Indi tore the molding on our door frames to shreds and completely ruined our furniture. Before these two, I left my pack of three out together and they were all just fine and dandy - never hurt each other or house hold items.

Anywho:

Remember that physical exercise is very important, but mental exercise is just as important. Training tricks and obedience with your dogs is going to be one of your best bets at wearing them out so much that they will just want to plop down in their crate with a kong and get some much needed rest. If you have room to set up some outdoor activities, you could always start doing backyard agility with your dogs. It is a very easy way to wear them out mentally AND physically through agility.

Just look up agility online and you can find a ton of good resources, AffordableAgility is a good site to visit for ideas on obstacles. If you are interested you could PM me and I could let you know how I made most of my backyard equipment easily and at a low cost. 

I've been fostering feral cats for the last couple of months and it is so hard becoming attached to them and then letting them go. It was the exact same thing when I started finding litters of feral puppies about five years ago - raising them up until they are strong mentally and physically, only to give them away, well it's sad at first, but oh so rewarding in the long run. 

Just keep in mind that just because there is the possibility of a dog fight, as there is with every group of dogs, you don't have to live in fear of it - especially if there is absolutely nothing to indicate trouble between your two pack members right now. I can't say much as to anything about renting. I do know that around here there are tons of apartments and duplexes willing to allow up to three large dogs. In fact, one of my friends who lives right down the road from me in an Apt. with his roommates, has three pitbull mixes living with him. It's not impossible to find a place, just difficult sometimes. I hope everything works out for you and your pups. :thumb:


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## Maxy24 (Mar 5, 2011)

If I were you I would not keep this particular dog. Almost all terrier owners will tell you not to leave one unattended with another dog. At 8 months there are aspects of his temperament that might not be evident yet as he's still essentially a child. The sort of dog aggression present in many terriers is not a result of how they are raised or socialized, it is an inherited trait, an urge just like herding, howling, chasing rodents, etc. It is very possible your foster did not inherit this trait, but there is no test to conclude this and since you are unwilling to live in a rotating situation I would find your lovely lady a more terrier appropriate home. I know how hard it must be to make a decision like this knowing that there is a good possibility it could work out just fine...but it could also land her in a shelter or could result in a dead dog someday (if you're leaving them together unattended). So I don't think it's worth the risk.


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## CavePaws (Jan 25, 2011)

My dog's aggression towards other dogs is inherited. She has been this way towards other dogs since the day I found her. It is not unmanageable and we do not live in a "crate and rotate" situation. Honestly, I view all of this breed aggression stereotyping as fear mongering. Please do not let the thought of not being able to "crate and rotate" effect your decision on owning this particular dog. Right now you have absolutely zero reason to assume that your foster is just going to snap and become uncontrollably aggressive towards your other dog.

I think 100% that if you cannot handle the thought of crating or separating these two when you are not there to supervise their interactions, that you probably should consider not having two dogs.


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## Donna Little (May 31, 2011)

I agree completely with everyone saying not to leave them unattended. It's just not a good idea. I have a friend that has 2 Pitbulls that have lived together for 8 yrs now with no problems. One of them, her female, is the most submissive dog you'd ever want to meet. She started a fight one day out of the blue and damage was done to both dogs. My friend had fortunately only walked to the mailbox and could see them through the front window. They were excited seeing her outside and both barking at her and suddenly they were fighting. And it was the sweet submissive one that started it. It was only a few seconds but both came away with punture wounds. Can you imagine if they were alone for hours and that had happened?
If fighting is something you aren't prepared to handle you should rethink keeping a Pitbull as a companion while you're at work. I just don't think that's the best choice. I do however totally understand falling in love with a foster....:smile:


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

can you talk to the shelter and tell them you'll foster, but not adopt?

that way, if it doesn't work out, she can go back to the shelter...it's not ideal, but it's no kill.


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## CavePaws (Jan 25, 2011)

Since you are already fostering the dog you could look at it as a longer term foster and if it doesn't work out, it doesn't work out...If you feel like this dog is predisposed to being seriously dog aggressive towards other dogs, and that it is something that a potential adopter who owns a dog already will not be able to live with, then I would find an only dog home for your foster. Personally, I feel "crate and rotate" is inhumane in most situations. I don't think there is any way you can give a dog the adequate attention it needs all the time crating and rotating. I just don't see it as fair to have a full day of work, only to come home to a situation where only one dog can be let out at a time and given attention at that time.

Any dog with teeth can get into a fight with another dog and cause puncture wounds and serious injury. There are circumstances which you would expect a fight to break out and there are circumstances where you wouldn't expect a fight to break out but either way, it can happen. The point is, IMO, with any group of dogs, I am uncomfortable leaving them out together with me unable to supervise. I have seen one too many fights break out to risk my dogs being injured. Fights between pack members who get along just fine most of the time can happen too. Sh*t happens. However, I don't feel you need to live like a gun is being pointed at your resident dogs head 24/7...Not until you've had multiple fights happen between the two.

Again. In no way, shape, or form, am I saying you should keep this dog if you cannot crate when you are not there to supervise. I don't believe in risking any dogs health like that.


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## rannmiller (Jun 27, 2008)

Goingpostal, she hasn't had one incident with the dog yet and you're telling her it's a murderous beast that will rip her dog's head off as soon as look at it. I believe you're the one giving terrible advice. And I know TONS of people who have lied about what breed their dog is to keep it because they believe it is worse for the poor dog to have to be rehomed or dumped at a shelter with all the other hundreds of thousands of abandoned pit bulls because they can't find a place that will accept it than it is to keep them by any means possible. Especially if it's a perfectly sweet, well behaved dog that's never caused a problem before. What does it benefit to be honest if it just gets your dog put in a situation they don't deserve. And besides that, I've seen plenty of dogs that look like pit bulls but have no pit in them whatsoever. With her having an underbite and the foster mom not knowing the dog's history, for all we know the dog COULD in fact be a lab/boxer mix. 

And furthermore, I have several friends with purebred pit bulls who leave them alone, unattended with other dogs and have done so for years and have never had a problem. So for you to just go around telling this poor person whose foster has done nothing wrong that the dog will readily turn on her dog as soon as it gets half a chance is lying as well. I'm not lying about the breed. I think they are a wonderful, loving, goofy, high energy, breed that can be prone to dog aggression when not raised properly. If the dog is already not causing any problems with her dog, chances are pretty slim that any fights will break out for no reason. 

Any and all dogs can fight. I keep one of my dogs separated from my other two for this very reason when I'm not home. But you know what? Sometimes I forget and he stays with the other two unattended all day and I come home to three very happy dogs who haven't had a problem with each other all day. So please don't go around ruining the reputation of this poor breed, the rest of the country has already done that enough. If you want this person to be terrified of pit bulls and perpetuate the rumor that they're a super scary and dangerous breed, then you're doing a great job of it.

Edit: oops sorry for saying "chairity case" earlier, the post was directed toward goingpostal


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## dogsarebetter (Nov 4, 2011)

CavePaws- Maxy- Thank you very much. I know dogs can fight. In the past I had my current two dogs, plus one or ever two fosters left unattended while I was at work. I have never had an issue before, and until now I have never thought of anything bad about it.
I was volunteering at a rescue, I was actually living there for a while. They had two dogs per pen, and a few running loose in the fence yard. (i did not run this rescue just volunteer.) Two times a pitbull was involved in a fight. I could NOT break them up. The other dog was severely injured.
I have broken up a few dog fights before, I know how and I am not overly worried about a little "scuffle" between two dogs. But if it involves a pit... I am TERRIFIED.
If I do decide to keep her, I will crate her if she will be unattended. Even tho I think it is unfair.

Magicre- The shelter doesnt know I even want to adopt her. They assume I am only fostering with no intent on adoption.

rannmiller- I am scared of the breed, when it comes to having one involved in a fight.

I dont think she is a mix. She looks like a pit to me and everyone at the shelter. but she is very short, huge head, and about 25lbs. I havent seen a pit this small.

thank you so much everyone!


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## dogsarebetter (Nov 4, 2011)

i just cannot imagine her being aggressive to skyler. they chew on the same nylabones at the same time. they even share a food bowl and a raw meal.


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## leilaquinn (Sep 7, 2011)

she sounds like an awesome little pup, and I can totally imagine why the 'foster failure' wheels are turning:biggrin:. I have a pit bull who loves other dogs, i hope he always does as I would love to find a compatible female dog I can also adopt at some point, both because i would love another dog and because luigi REALLY thrives on the company of other dogs. conversely, I've known tons of dogs of all kinds of breeds who are totally intolerant of other dogs. That said, if i get another dog, regardless of how well they may get along I would still never leave them alone together for this reason: When a pit bull, or other traditional fighting breed, gets in a fight, even if they didn't start it and had no desire for one, they tend to fight HARD, just like they love hard and play hard, they really don't do anything half way, and in the case of a fight that can be devestating. What might have been a scuffle between two border collies, or two SUPERVISED pit bulls who are quickly separated, can be deadly between two dogs who feel no urge to back down when they get hurt. To the people saying that we are villifying the breed, I do think it can come out that way, but it is usually really a matter of wanting everyone to be extra cautious for the sake of ALL bully breed dogs. Can a german shepherd get in a fight with a cocker spannial while the owner is out and accidentally kill it? of course! But at the moment that won't fuel a massive witch hunt for all GSDs like is currently being dirrected at pit bulls. when the microscope is this trained on something or someone you love, you just really don't want anyone to have any ammunition to work with. i would rather be so cautious that no one who has ever known any of my dogs can think of anything bad to say about them other than they licked their face to an annoying degree, does that make sense?

There is a bit of a higher chance that this girl will grow up to be less dog tollerant than the AVERAGE golden retriever, but there is also a great possibility that she will love your dog and get snarky with female dogs she doesn't know, or always love all dogs, you just can't know for sure at this age. As I said, the IMPORTANT difference with this breed is that if your dogs were to get into a scuffle (as simply ALL dogs can) without you home to intervene there is a higher chance that your sweet girl will just not back down, and finish a fight with tragic consequences, this is no fault of her's, we have encouraged genetic tendancies being overexpressed in lots of dog breeds (I bet you've met a few compulsive herders?) and it is now our responsibility to take those genes into account as well as each dog's individual personality.

Good luck with whatever you choose, fostering pit bulls can take time any way as there are so many that need homes, so you may have some time to descide.


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## CavePaws (Jan 25, 2011)

I think leilaquin explained it in the best possible way. I really think that was by far the most accurate and fair explanation of this breeds tendencies. I agree, because of genetics a purebred APBT will be more predisposed to DA than another breed genetically designed to hunt in groups of dogs or to run together on a sled team. Not all breeds were designed by man to fight other dogs until there is no fight left to be had; but the APBT was. In that respect I think anyone owning the breed needs to be well educated and prepared for DA or a potential fight. Every dog owner should be prepared for fights. Every dog owner needs to be prepared to handle potential behavioral issues; every dog owner needs to research about the breed they own until their eyes are dry and their brain is fried. Every breed comes with pros and every breed has its "cons". If you are prepared to handle these potential "cons" they really won't be "cons" any more, just something you will have to keep an eye out for. I fully believe that given your current situation, you could very well give this dog a forever home. Research, research, research. I have had to break up fights between dogs who are not willing to give up; it is very difficult and ugly, I won't sugar coat that. However, I really do think any owner should be prepared for such a thing to happen one day, even if it doesn't, it wouldn't hurt to know what to do. I really don't think right now you need to worry though, at all. Just educate yourself as much as possible on APBT ownership and ways to control dog aggression, as well as ways to break up fights.


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5 (Feb 11, 2010)

dogsarebetter said:


> I have a dog of my own, Skyler. A large border collie mix.
> My foster dog Tashi is a pittie. I have been fostering her for a few weeks now, and she is tugging on my heart strings more so than any foster I have ever had before. (I've had about 25 fosters)
> 
> I am considering adopting her but I am just not sure if its a good idea.
> ...


DO NOT KEEP HER.
I have no doubt in my mind that you two have a great connection, and that you would love the pitbull very much...more so than any other home even!
but ido not think that you would be a good home for her.
Focus on your current dog, and maybe once your financial situation improves, add in another dog.
You are thinking with your heart(because you are such a dog lover...and love this one very much!!!) but you should try hard to ignore your overwhelming heart...and to stop pushing your logic aside.

if you really love her i'd give her up....like ''tobi'' did. he did a good thing for his foster pooch.


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## GoingPostal (Sep 5, 2011)

Ranmiller, did you ever stop and think I said those things because I don't want to see another dog dumped? Maybe you're living on some other planet, but around here I see pit bulls dumped nonstop for being dog aggressive, for fighting with other dogs in the house, because their owners can't find breed friendly housing, etc. All things that could have been avoided had they done some research before hand. So I would much rather people be prepared for what CAN happen, than them dream happy thoughts and dump the dog if it doesn't work out that way. See the blue dog in my avatar? Yeah, her owner couldn't find housing that took pit bulls, that's how I got her, she had another pit bull that got dumped too. The tan dog? Stray nobody cared to fix, chip or pick up, he was dog friendly up until about two years old and now he is very unsafe around strange dogs, he'll start a fight at the drop of a hat, I hate to think of where he would be if someone else adopted him as "dog friendly" and expected him to stay that way. The brindle girl, dumped at least 2x I know of, she's a foster failure because she had plenty of interest because she's a cute dog, but not a single person willing to deal with the cons of the breed or that had homeowners insurance to cover it. She had shown ZERO aggression for the 3 months leading up to that fight and in another, less prepared home, or with a small dog she could have easily killed or seriously injured it. The other two dogs got into a scuffle a few years back, they just got too excited, we had company, all who about crapped their pants at the intensity and quickness they went from fine to trying to kill each other and they didn't cause a lick of damage because we were right there to grab them. Fights can happen at the drop of a hat, even if there's been no issues up until then, there's a lady on another forum I'm on who's dogs got along great, they were outside with her, got excited over someone going by, one dog redirected on the other and it lost a leg as a result. I've heard of several people who's dogs killed another when they were left loose together, not to mention cats and other animals. A dogs' life is nothing to play around with, I don't think my dogs will kill each other if I leave them alone together, but I know fights happen and it's not a risk I am willing to take. It has nothing to do with how they are raised or treated, there are pit bulls who went to puppy classes, dog parks, doggy daycare who turn on and hate other dogs, and former fighting dogs who live fine with others and believing "it's all in how they are raised" gets far too many pit bulls killed or dumped or into trouble. 

OP, if you aren't willing to deal with a fight, why are you setting the dogs up for it by feeding them together and giving high value toys/treats/etc together? #1 way to keep dogs getting along is preventing a fight in the first place and triggers like that start most of them. Especially if you don't have a break stick and don't know how to stop a fight with a pit bull, please manage your dogs safer, it's not difficult at all, your foster is young and maturing dogs can be a whole different ball game, what might be ok in the past doesn't mean it will always be.


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## xchairity_casex (Oct 8, 2011)

i agree i know its hard to imagine your dogs becomeing aggressive but the thing is all dogs especielly younger dogs like yours WILL try to dominate another dog in the house period it happens it happens seemingly randomly to us humans and no one is saying your dog is a horrable monster waitign to be unleased but she is a pit bull she is a very domineering breed with a low tolerance level to other dogs attempting to dominat them bully brreds like that dont tolerate other dogs pushing them around period does it mean all bully breeds are aggressive? NO it means they need to be watched and understood and managed. you NEED to know that any dominant behavior toward her could set her off and make her say im not going to take this anymore its like people all humans have differant levels of tolerance some people can allow other people to put them down and call them names over and over again while other people get a single insult and are mad as heck in that persons face. no one is saying you cant live peacefully with these two dogs BUT you DO need to realize that she needs to be managed that your other dogs behviros toward her need to be manged and observed. like i said think of it like people maybe you have a freind who is as nice and happy an freindly as can be but if someone insultes them or puts them down they get angry and they have alot of pride they are not bad or evil or aggressive but they do ahve a tolerance level to certian things.
my boy cesar hes gotta be the sweetest dog in teh world loves everyone wouldnt hurt a fly gets along great with other dogs small dogs,big dogs, shares with my sisters little toy poodle BUT i have no doubts in my mind that if a dog came up to him and started trying to push him around or dominate him that he would not stand for it an would start a fight wit another dog so i mange this if we greet another dog who is being a little too pushy i leave i walk away i do not allow cesar to interact with this dog and vic versa if we meet another dog and cesar starts getting to pushy i stop him right away and do not allow him to do those things toward any other dog. when i leave the house kira the poodle and cesar are seperated he is also seperated from all my other pets even though i trust him in my presence to not harm them


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## dogsarebetter (Nov 4, 2011)

skyler plays alot of dominating games. he likes to hold her down and lay on her. and she appears to like it. he lets her do the same to him. they play really hard in the house, sometimes i wonder if they will tear the house apart.

they have no issues sharing anything at all. Tashi will actually leave some food in her bowl for skyler when she is done eating, even if its just a couple of bites.

so, from what I am hearing... "its just a matter of time?" until she decides to try to be top dog and cause an issue?

I should doubt that skyler will be her best buddy forever? and that she will stay adorable super submissive cute little tashi?

if i keep tashi i will have her crated when not supervised.

thank you everyone for your input. very helpful in decision making


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## CavePaws (Jan 25, 2011)

Goingpostal - There are more tactful ways to say that a certain breed is predisposed to DA. On top of that, you were speaking to her as if the dog had already been in a fight with her other dog, which it hadn't. I understand your desire to preserve the breed and to help, but what you were doing was placing unnecessary amounts of fear into her mind about this foster dog she has. You don't know the origins of this dog, you don't know the dog. I'm sorry, but who are you to say that at some point this dog might just snap? ANY dog might just snap. Any dogs can get into a fight over food under the table. I don't own pitbulls but I do own temperamental dogs and I can tell you that it isn't a breed thing. It is a personality thing. I'm a dog trainer and I have been working in kennels evaluating dogs and putting play groups together for the last three years. I can't tell you the number of pitbulls I have seen that are extremely tolerant of other dogs. It just blows my mind how so many people think that every pitbull on the block has this on switch that is extraordinarily easy to trigger and when it is triggered there really isn't a way to flip it off. What I am saying is I don't think you have any ground to stand upon telling this girl that her foster is dangerous or will become dangerous.

ANY dog can get into a fight. Temperament plays a HUGE role in how a dog will react to another dogs challenge. Certain breeds are predisposed to certain temperaments, but every dog is an individual and should be treated as such. That means no lumping dogs together and no stereotyping - which is exactly the trend I've been seeing. I agree entirely, don't leave the two dogs out unattended together. I also agree, if you can't handle a fight, don't adopt this second dog. 

My reasoning is different though. Any dog can start a fight over something little or perceived as value. If you own two dogs and aren't prepared to break up a dog fight or accept that sh*t happens, then you really shouldn't own two dogs. There will always be that possibility of a fight or injury. But the way you speak about this girls foster, it's like you're saying that the dogs temperament will one day be determined by the flip of a coin (DA or Not DA) and she has no control over the dogs destiny. There is such thing as training and management, which can go a long way with DA dogs...

Just sayin...


And Charity Chase, not all young dogs will try to dominate other dogs in the house...


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## CavePaws (Jan 25, 2011)

Dogsarebetter, what I hear you saying is that you have two dogs that are well matched in play style.  I don't think you'll have any sudden issues with Tashi just going off the deep end and being permanently aggressive towards Skylar. I feed my dogs separately, that may be something you want to consider at some point. Food is a very valuable resource and probably the most common cause of fights breaking out. I know you don't see any need to separate them now...But it's just like the crating while not home deal, you just do it as an extra precaution. 


Right now I see absolutely no reason for you to not adopt Tashi based on the thought that one day she won't get along with Skylar.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

personally, if you have the dog and the shelter doesn't know of your intentions, why not talk to them and ask if you can try this as a trial and see what happens?

take your precautions as you need to....see if you can get home to feed them or take them out, rather than them having to be crated for 10 hours at a time...

if you have more than one room, you can always separate them....we have a two bedroom apartment and if i were not sure, one would go into one bedroom and the other would go into another bedroom.

not sure i'd leave them outside, especially since you don't know whether the new one is an escape artist.

i'm not getting involved in the pit bull discussion. any dog, including my boy shih tzu who beat the crap out of the other shih tzus and had to be kept separate....who attached himself to a lab's haunch, idiot that he was, g'd rest his soul and thank g'd that lab didn't eat him as an appetiser...

so any dog can be DA or HA or whatever A....

but as a dog....know thy dog...and if you love this dog....talk to the shelter and see if you can try a trial.....that way, they know and if you need to take him back...then no hard feelings....it's always a trial to bring another dog in.

go with your heart. just as children can be raised on walmart not nordstrom, dogs can be raised on feedlot beef. it's the love that matters.


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## Maxy24 (Mar 5, 2011)

Nobody is saying it's just a matter of time, it's a matter of genes. There is no way to know if this dog has genes that will make it DA or genes that will make it great with other dogs. What we do know is that pit bulls (and most terriers breeds, malamutes, shar peis, Akitas, dobermans, etc.) are more likely to have this trait THAN OTHER BREEDS ARE. What this means to me is that if you were to ask me "what breeds are a good fit for me" I would never name one of those breeds because they have a higher incidence of dog aggression than other breeds that would suit you, and you have said you will not keep the dog if she displays this trait. I feel better about you keeping her if you will separate them when you are away, that way at least you're not risking them getting into a dangerous fight if that trait is present in the dog. But I am still torn about someone keeping a dog with a higher incidence of DA when that is a trait they will not allow in their home.


I also want it to be known that the DA I am talking about is not based in fear, it is not dogs trying to fight for a hierarchy or fight over resources, it is a drive to fight. The dog WANTS to fight. And I don't think this is the sort of DA most dogs display. I know of plenty fear aggressive dogs and plenty of resource guarding dogs, these are dogs who can learn to think differently. This is not the same as the genetic DA I'm referring to (although other types of DA can carry a genetic basis...a naturally more fearful/distrustful dog or naturally more protective dog may be more likely to have these types of DA).


I somewhat feel adopting a pit bull puppy and then getting rid of him if he shows DA is similar to a low energy person getting a border collie mix puppy who seems to have the same energy as your average puppy and then getting rid of him when he is 18 months old and is way too high energy for you. Or getting a Husky puppy and getting rid of him when he tries to eat the cats. It wasn't an unlikely trait for the dog to develop. Do lots of dogs of lots of breeds turn out to be super high energy or have super high prey drives and try to eat cats? Yeah. But with some breeds you are kind of supposed to be prepared for it, it's more likely to occur in them than in other breeds. It's the reason we have breeds, because they all have certain tendencies.


But I do feel your pain. I decided a few years ago that the pit bull was for me, it was the breed I was going to get as an adult (I'm still in college). I was going to get one and I would get him his therapy dog title and we'd visit nursing homes and hospitals regularly. We'd probably go into a sport of some sort...agility or dock diving, pit bulls are awesome at sports. I would adopt him as an adult, around 3 years old, because usually an adult dog is set in it's current temperament so I could adopt an non-DA one and be fairly certain he's gonna stay that way. I'd likely foster dogs as well, so if he did become DA I could just stop doing that and all would be well.

And then last year my parents got a puppy, he has some awful fear aggression towards strangers and is higher energy than they were prepared for. I think he's awesome. It's been decided that he's going to be mine as soon as I am not living in a dorm. They should never have gotten a dog, if it wasn't for me they probably would have returned him. So now I'm facing the decision of whether or not I feel comfortable having a pit bull and another dog, especially a small breed dog. If Tucker (our dog) wasn't fear aggressive it would be fine, I'd just stick with him and follow the same dream (he'd be awesome at sports and with his family he's super cuddly and extremely handleable so if he acted that way with strangers he'd be great therapy dog) just with him. But I can't do it with him and I'd REALLY like to have a therapy dog (and think it would be awesome to show the world that pit bulls can be therapy dogs), and so now I'm really stuck as to whether I should choose a pit bull or choose a different breed/mix. How likely is it that the DA would show up later in life? Would I be willing to rotate dogs?

So I guess I'm just torn in your situation. There is a really good chance that she will never ever be dog aggressive and she'll be perfect for you forever. So it would be really upsetting to put her in a different home only to learn years later that she continued to be dog friendly and could have stayed with you just fine. But compared to many, many other breeds, she's more likely to become aggressive towards dogs, a trait you will not allow in your house. I know many people who would be absolutely irate if someone gets rid of a pit bull for dog aggression because they knew it was more likely to happen when they got the dog. These people wouldn't have been upset if someone got rid of their beagle for the same reason because it's not something you should be expecting when getting a Beagle and it's understandable that you'd get a Beagle if you can't handle DA. So I don't know...It's hard when you're talking about a dog you know and love, not just a breed you're researching. If it were an adult dog I'd feel better about it, there would be a smaller chance of her temperament changing. I guess it's just hard and I'm sorry you have to try and make this decision!


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## RachelsaurusRexU (Sep 4, 2010)

dogsarebetter said:


> skyler plays alot of dominating games. he likes to hold her down and lay on her. and she appears to like it. he lets her do the same to him. they play really hard in the house, sometimes i wonder if they will tear the house apart.
> 
> they have no issues sharing anything at all. Tashi will actually leave some food in her bowl for skyler when she is done eating, even if its just a couple of bites.
> 
> ...


Don't forget that she is still a puppy. There have been plenty of dogs raised together who have reached maturity and then seriously gotten into it after years of no issues. I think if you do some research on the breed and are prepared to separate when you aren't able to supervise, and you are financially prepared for a second dog, there's no reason you shouldn't adopt her.


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## CavePaws (Jan 25, 2011)

There is a way to know if this dogs genes have produced a form of DA...If it is encoded in the dogs DNA then it has always been there and will have reared it's ugly head sooner than this age. Sorry, but dogs can develop aggression, and they can inherit it. If it is inherited it isn't just going to pop out of nowhere and bite you in the a** one day. My dog has inherited DA and it has shown itself in one form of another since Day 1 of my owning her. It only reared it's ugly head when she hit 10 months and went absolutely off the deep end in the way she reacted to other dogs. It took me trying meds for a year until I realized no amount of training or medication would stop this or take the DA out of her. It is there to stay and there was no need to push it if it can be properly managed.

Dogs that suddenly develop it have a better prognosis usually - at one point in time they did not have DA and they should know that way of life and have the prior experience in social skills to read other dogs very well. 

Dogs that have always been this way are usually put down at a young age. It is hard managing DA in general, there are stipulations you have to always stay under as a responsible pet owner. The point is, if this were truly inherited, the dog would be showing symptoms by now.


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## dogsarebetter (Nov 4, 2011)

you guys are amazing.
thank you so much

I have not decided if i will keep her or not yet.
after much thought now my main concerns are

i do not have a fenced yard
i rent and see no home ownership in my future
4 days a week she will have to be crated for 10hrs straight (however she will have plenty of exercise)

yes i can make do with no fence... but i feel like its a little unfair to have two dogs and no where for the to run off leash securely
i am a believer of teaching a good recall, but still too many what if's

renting. if i look hard enough i can find a place that allows pits. and there id stay. I do not plan on moving anytime soon. and of course id never more to a place that didnt allow pits. surely its not impossible to find a pit friendly rental.

crated for 10hrs? id feel like sh*t about it.


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## Tobi (Mar 18, 2011)

dogsarebetter said:


> you guys are amazing.
> thank you so much
> 
> I have not decided if i will keep her or not yet.
> ...


Don't psych yourself out about it too much, it's safer to do that than chain them out, or leave them to fend for themselves inside. I did that for quite some time with my apbt that i had back in Seattle. My work schedule varied greatly from 5-8's to 4-10's to 7-12's... but, when I could i would come get her out at lunch and take her for a nice quick run... sucked for me but kept her entertained, i also got many things to keep her occupied in her crate (which was good size, 4'X4' so she could move around as much as she needed....

If you think about how dogs are though... they sleep most of the day anyway. Tobi even when i'm here he just sleeps on me, he sleeps all night in bed with us, then sleeps till about 4pm then becomes more active. They might be just the same way. don't fret you know you'll do what is best! :smile:


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## Maxy24 (Mar 5, 2011)

You don't necessarily have to CRATE. A room with a door will contain her just fine I'm sure. That way she can play with toys if she wants.

I would be concerned about renting, you might want to look into that situation for your area a bit more. Not sure how you go about doing that exactly, but some areas are going to be more dog friendly than others. Like I know in NYC it's much easier to find a place to rent with a pit bull than a lot of other places.


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## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

Ok. I am here to talk you out of it as I know how you feel with the renting. 

There are MANY breeds I would love to own: American Staffordshire Terrier, Argentinean Dogo, several of the mastiff breeds, Doberman, Rottweiler, etc. We ended up with a bluetick coonhound because they, along with smooth collies are not on any breed restriction list I have ever heard of in any country, state, county, city, house, or apartment complex. My husband is in the Navy. He is stationed at Bangor here in Washington. Many of our friends on base and her in the military housing have breeds like pits, dobies, etc. Sounds like the green light to go ahead and get one, right? Well, I had the brilliant idea to look ahead into our future. We may know that we are staying here until May 2013, but there will be a next command. Say we went ahead and got a Dogo. What if... we get stationed overseas and that country does not allow the importation of breeds like Dogos. I was on Australia's dog import site and Dogos are specifically banned from being imported into Australia. Or, even more likely, base housing and nearby military housing is full (or even just the dog units) and we have to find an apartment or house where we can have a Dogo. 

Rather than have all of those worries, we just got a bluetick. One day, when we OWN our home and we don't have to worry about approval of our dogs' breeds, we will own our dogs that are commonly on those lists. I don't want my dog to be taken from me because I don't have the option to move out of that county or what have you. Once I am secure in my living situation, I will have my "scary" breeds.

Here is another thought... Send her back to the shelter you are fostering her for and if she is not adopted... THEN adopt her. But give her time to be adopted by another loving family. Are the fosterers part of the adoption approval since you have lived and worked with the dog? If you can, you could participate in the screening of potential adopters, then, if she isn't adopted, you can take her home as your new dog. See what I am saying?


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

Dude and Bucks Mamma said:


> Ok. I am here to talk you out of it as I know how you feel with the renting.
> 
> There are MANY breeds I would love to own: American Staffordshire Terrier, Argentinean Dogo, several of the mastiff breeds, Doberman, Rottweiler, etc. We ended up with a bluetick coonhound because they, along with smooth collies are not on any breed restriction list I have ever heard of in any country, state, county, city, house, or apartment complex. My husband is in the Navy. He is stationed at Bangor here in Washington. Many of our friends on base and her in the military housing have breeds like pits, dobies, etc. Sounds like the green light to go ahead and get one, right? Well, I had the brilliant idea to look ahead into our future. We may know that we are staying here until May 2013, but there will be a next command. Say we went ahead and got a Dogo. What if... we get stationed overseas and that country does not allow the importation of breeds like Dogos. I was on Australia's dog import site and Dogos are specifically banned from being imported into Australia. Or, even more likely, base housing and nearby military housing is full (or even just the dog units) and we have to find an apartment or house where we can have a Dogo.
> 
> ...


very logical and well said.


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## dogsarebetter (Nov 4, 2011)

why send her back to the shelter? thats the reason that i am fostering her, so that she is not in a 10X10 pen with two other dogs.
anyone can adopt her, or view her at anytime.

also this tiny rural shelter does not "screen" any homes. basically if they have the $100 adoption fee, they get the dog.
I always try to find someone i know who might take my foster dogs, or a friend of a friend. or even a client (i groom dogs) but that usually does not happen.

this shelter sends a bunch of dogs to rescues up north if someone will take them.
i think i am unwilling for her to go up north to ANOTHER shelter type of environment for who knows how long.

I figured that i will keep her if i have her for 8 months (i wouldnt doubt that at ALL) 

as of now I am trying to find her a suitable home and getting the word out that i have an awesome little pittie dog needing a home.

leash trained, house broken, crate trained, good with cats, good with dogs. microchipped, spayed, up to date on shots, 3 months free pet health insurance.
to me $100 for all this sounds like a steal! what a great dog.


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## leilaquinn (Sep 7, 2011)

It sounds like you are on the right track, and sometimes with fostering these decicions get made for us. A foster home should ideally be prepared to keep the animal indefinately, until a good home is found, or forever if one isn't. I found 2 kittens, brothers, IN MY TRASHCAN outside. We brought them in with the intention to take them to a shelter in the morning. By morning we had descided to foster them until homes could be found, there are just so many cats in shelters. i'm super allergic and we just aren't really cat people, we don't dislike them, but I don't feel the way I do about dogs either. That was over 4 years ago. Almost exactly a year ago Jack found an awsome home with a family with kids, who he adores. Petey is still here. he's SWEET, and pretty, but he's aproaching 5 and was always shyer than his brother and takes time to warm up to new people. when he does he is a smooshy lap cat, but kittens needing homes are everywhere. he is still on petfinder, but i'm not holding my breath. he's had two people interested, but they weren't good enough for HIM in my mind. Things between Petey and luigi aren't ideal, but they aren't bad either (Luigi wants to PLAY with the cat like the cat is a bullmastif puppy, which includes chasing and slapping, I obviosly don't allow this, and they are fine when Lu is sleepy and the cat is sitting still, but I would never let them interact out of my imediate reach as i'm afraid petey would get hurt by accident) . i never intended to keep him, but it looks like that might be the best thing. maybe a long term foster situation will give you the chance to make your mind up slowly. i'm just glad you don't live near me as i'm starting to crave a second dog and she sounds great:wink:

ETA: and how could this go on so long without PICTURES!?


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## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

dogsarebetter said:


> why send her back to the shelter? thats the reason that i am fostering her, so that she is not in a 10X10 pen with two other dogs.
> anyone can adopt her, or view her at anytime.
> 
> also this tiny rural shelter does not "screen" any homes. basically if they have the $100 adoption fee, they get the dog.
> ...


Oh, I wasn't sure on how that worked. You made it sound like they go back to the shelter and are adopted from there. Well, I would find someone you can talk to about her. See if you can find a way to, in a way, screen the potential owners. If you find a good home for her though, I wouldn't hesitate to part with her for her sake. Renting a home is not a stable enough situation to own a "dangerous" breed, IMO. Too many people are so ignorant that they aren't willing to look at a dog as an individual instead of its breed. We lived with friend's (they live out in town rather than in government or base housing) and Nick and I watched family after family get turned away because they had pits and pit mixes. It was really sad but too many places just aren't willing to accept a dog like that. 

I can understand why though. Even if the owner himself is ok with the breed, he is likely to have people move out because they are afraid of them. I have heard people say that they wouldn't live in a NEIGHBORHOOD if someone had a pit (stupid, I know). So, therefore, people think pits are dangerous because places don't allow them. It is a vicious circle. 

I am just unwilling to own one of these breeds until I own my own home so I know that I won't have to worry about not being able to find an apartment or house that allows them when I move. This is all my opinion though. Ultimately, you will do what you want.



leilaquinn said:


> It sounds like you are on the right track, and sometimes with fostering these decicions get made for us. A foster home should ideally be prepared to keep the animal indefinately, until a good home is found, or forever if one isn't. I found 2 kittens, brothers, IN MY TRASHCAN outside. We brought them in with the intention to take them to a shelter in the morning. By morning we had descided to foster them until homes could be found, there are just so many cats in shelters. i'm super allergic and we just aren't really cat people, we don't dislike them, but I don't feel the way I do about dogs either. That was over 4 years ago. Almost exactly a year ago Jack found an awsome home with a family with kids, who he adores. Petey is still here. he's SWEET, and pretty, but he's aproaching 5 and was always shyer than his brother and takes time to warm up to new people. when he does he is a smooshy lap cat, but kittens needing homes are everywhere. he is still on petfinder, but i'm not holding my breath. he's had two people interested, but they weren't good enough for HIM in my mind. Things between Petey and luigi aren't ideal, but they aren't bad either (Luigi wants to PLAY with the cat like the cat is a bullmastif puppy, which includes chasing and slapping, I obviosly don't allow this, and they are fine when Lu is sleepy and the cat is sitting still, but I would never let them interact out of my imediate reach as i'm afraid petey would get hurt by accident) . i never intended to keep him, but it looks like that might be the best thing. maybe a long term foster situation will give you the chance to make your mind up slowly. i'm just glad you don't live near me as i'm starting to crave a second dog and she sounds great:wink:
> 
> ETA: and how could this go on so long without PICTURES!?


I agree. We need pictures of her! Hahaha


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## dogsarebetter (Nov 4, 2011)

tashi has her own picture thread guys 
under the photo section.

but yes i do need to take more!


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## leilaquinn (Sep 7, 2011)

Oh, good, that's where i'm headed then:tongue:


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## dogsarebetter (Nov 4, 2011)

Tashi was adopted by a WONDERFUL owner  i couldnt be happier for her


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## monkeys23 (Dec 8, 2010)

Yay congrats to Tashi!


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