# Canned Food with highest Fiber?



## Ginny1956 (Dec 8, 2012)

Hi,
I have a 13 year old Malinois. She has occasional bleeding from the rectum and after many exams, the Vet says the she needs more fiber in her food. This dog is the personification of finicky I am giving her Canidae for Seniors both canned and kibble and I add some unprocessed wheat bran to the canned. Is there a better commercially available canned that has good fiber and decent taste as I also have two other dogs that will eat the same stuff. One is a senior and the other is a youth. All eat together. Thanks.


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## shellbell (Sep 24, 2011)

could you just give her a couple tbsp of pumpkin with her meals?


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

shellbell said:


> could you just give her a couple tbsp of pumpkin with her meals?


^^ Probably the most effective route to add fiber if that is a must. Not too expensive, either!
I'm curious what lead to this diagnosis, though?


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## monster'sdad (Jul 29, 2012)

Bran fiber in general is not the most gentle on the digestive tract. 

Pumpkin is not a good daily option either.

What you need to do is use a food with beet pulp and/or psyllium.

You can also explore adding psyllium to the canned food you are using.

Psyllium is the fiberous hull of buckwheat and available in every grocery store.

I have had many older dogs over the years and they need more insoluble fiber as they age.

Beet Pulp and Pysllium are really good at helping with motility. 

Wheat bran is very harsh and perhaps that plus straining to poop directly or indirectly is causing the bleeding.


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## _unoriginal (Apr 8, 2012)

monster'sdad said:


> Bran fiber in general is not the most gentle on the digestive tract.
> 
> Pumpkin is not a good daily option either.
> 
> ...


Curious.. 

I've always read that beet pulp is bad.

Also, why is pumpkin not good to give daily?


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## riddick4811 (Nov 2, 2011)

Don't know about the problem with daily pumpkin use, but I know beet pulp is used by a lot of Greyhound people. They add it to their diet daily to get good poop. My dogs have always done better on foods with beet pulp than other sources of fiber. I have never added it separately though.

As for the OP, What about adding a spoonful of flaxseed meal? Flax Seed Health Benefits and Safety Issues - Flax Seed Nutrition


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## monster'sdad (Jul 29, 2012)

Beet Pulp, Bloat, Torsion | GREATDANELADY.COM

This will tell you everything you need to know about beet pulp. 

Pumpkin fiber is like the fiber in barley and oats, water soluble. It is just creates larger and seemingly firm poops but they are not.

Beet pulp feeds the good bacteria at the expense of the bad bacteria. No other fiber for animals does this. 

Older dogs do better in my experience on a food with beet pulp.

There is very little in the food, 2 - 3%, so a coffee mug or so in a 40lb bag of food.

Every pet food company knows beet pulp is the best but the marketing departments at some companies say people react negatively to it.

It is just another vegetable fiber, but it has unique qualities. In tough cases a bit of psyllium is useful too.

You couldn't make a performance food without beet pulp.


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

lolgreatdanelady


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## monster'sdad (Jul 29, 2012)

CorgiPaws said:


> lolgreatdanelady



You should follow the links to the studies. There is some real science in there.

If you like I can introduce you to the Chairperson of the Health Committee at the Great Dane Club of the America, she uses BilJac, another food with beet pulp.

You think you know more than she does?


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## Sheltielover25 (Jan 18, 2011)

If you want some material on why beet pulp isn't a favorable choice by some: 

http://therobertabadydogfoodcoltd.com/dog food & Saponins.htm

My .02 is it's a cheap, inferior product and I notice it only in brands I wouldn't recommend to anyone. There are better and more nutritous, less taxing, ways to achieve what this cheaper product does. I feel like a product who adds ingredients like this is looking to save a buck..

And no, Monster's Dad, I don't need your opinion as we all know by now how you feel about beet pulp and I am allowed to have a different opinion, and don't need you to challenge it. Sad an adult has to be told this but....


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## monster'sdad (Jul 29, 2012)

Sheltielover25 said:


> If you want some material on why beet pulp isn't a favorable choice by some:
> 
> http://therobertabadydogfoodcoltd.com/dog food & Saponins.htm
> 
> ...


Did you know Robert Abady? I actually knew him when he showed Bouviers. He died of a stroke a few years back. That was written over 30 years ago and is completely false. 

So what would your choice be for a fiber source that does what beet pulp does? Please document your opinion. I want science.

Is Abady a food you would recommend?

Was it you or someone else that said bloat was not partially a genetic issue?

I can't remember.


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## Foodie (Apr 25, 2010)

monster'sdad said:


> Bran fiber in general is not the most gentle on the digestive tract.
> 
> Pumpkin is not a good daily option either.
> 
> ...


I wouldn't listen to advice from someone who doesn't even know what psyllium is (not buckwheat hulls, lmao). FYI "Sal", it's spelled p-s-y-l-l-i-u-m, look it up!


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## Foodie (Apr 25, 2010)

Does your vet want you to use soluble or insoluble fiber, there is a difference.
"Both soluble and insoluble fiber are undigested. They are therefore not absorbed into the bloodstream. Instead of being used for energy, fiber is excreted from our bodies. Soluble fiber forms a gel when mixed with liquid, while insoluble fiber does not. Insoluble fiber passes through our intestines largely intact." Fiber 101: Soluble Fiber vs Insoluble Fiber

Pumpkin, flaxseed and psyllium are considered soluble fiber, beet pulp has varying amounts of soluble and insoluble fiber and wheat bran is insoluble.


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## Foodie (Apr 25, 2010)

monster'sdad said:


> Beet pulp feeds the good bacteria at the expense of the bad bacteria. No other fiber for animals does this.


:nono: Not true again,

"Traditional dietary sources of prebiotics include soybeans, inulin sources (such as Jerusalem artichoke, jicama, and chicory root), raw oats, unrefined wheat, unrefined barley, and yacon." Prebiotic (nutrition) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## DaViking (Sep 27, 2011)

Sheltielover25 said:


> If you want some material on why beet pulp isn't a favorable choice by some:
> 
> http://therobertabadydogfoodcoltd.com/dog food & Saponins.htm
> 
> My .02 is it's a cheap, inferior product and I notice it only in brands I wouldn't recommend to anyone. There are better and more nutritous, less taxing, ways to achieve what this cheaper product does. I feel like a product who adds ingredients like this is looking to save a buck..


Less taxing? Nutritious? Where do you get this from? They are soluble and insoluble fibers and to varying degree fermentable in the colon, not digested, not nutritious. You don't know what you are talking about. Please tell us what fiber product is better at moving digesta along in a more appropriate way for most dogs? And what main source of dietary fiber is more efficient as a prebiotic than beet pulp in commercial dog foods? I really like to know your answers to this. The truth is that there is no better alternative for dog food. Compared to other alternatives foods with beet pulp as the main fiber source consistently produces smaller stool because transit time throughout the day is consistent and allows for maximum digestion. Other alternatives produces more volume, more moisture and usually more undigested matter during the day. The very best commercial foods with beet pulp produces very small stool, not far away from your average raw fed dog' stool. 99 out 100 dogs who have voluminous wet stool and goes more than two times per day will get positive results shortly after switching to a food with beet pulp as the main dietary fiber (providing the rest of the food is decent)

The only reasons some brands use other fiber products is 1) they can get other products, which also are by-products, at same or lower cost and 2) anonymous internet warriors with no real knowledge and experience demonize it and spread nonsense wherever they go. Did you notice in an earlier thread about beet pulp that someone actually referred to it as a cheap by-product of beets?

Listening to you giving advice is borderline dangerous. People looking for help on commercial pet food and taking your advice will never get anything resolved.


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## DaViking (Sep 27, 2011)

Foodie said:


> :nono: Not true again,
> 
> "Traditional dietary sources of prebiotics include soybeans, inulin sources (such as Jerusalem artichoke, jicama, and chicory root), raw oats, unrefined wheat, unrefined barley, and yacon." Prebiotic (nutrition) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Wikipedia? lol. Stop it, Monster isn't talking about minor specialized functional ingredients like inulin sources but a main dietary fiber. I am sure he is aware various formulas add inulin, MOS, FOS and AOS.

You don't use artichoke, jicama, or chicory root as a primary source of dietary fiber in dog food. These are all minor functional ingredient with a highly specialized action. A formulator can choose to add small amounts of chicory root to gain the effects of its inulin, not as a main source of dietary fiber.

"Beet pulp has been found to be an ideal source of moderately fermentable
fiber. Fiber sources such as cellulose, peanut hulls or soy bean hulls are
poor sources because they are not very fermentable. The correct amount and
type of fiber is necessary for a normal healthy digestive tract. There are
bacteria in the normal healthy digestive track. These bacteria have the
ability to ferment or digest certain types of fiber. The ideal fiber is on
the is partially fermentable or digestible, i.e., beet pulp. We want some
fiber left to provide that bulk to the stool that is necessary for a healthy
digestive system, but we also want some of the fiber to be digested by the
bacteria. 1"

"Beet pulp in a diet encourages colonization of those bacteria which best
ferment or digest that form of fiber and discourage those organisms which
do not effectively ferment fiber. It so happens that many good bacteria that
commonly inhabit the large intestines can deal with beet pulp ( Lactobacillus
acidophilus and Enterococcus faecium are just two) and many pathogenic
bacteria are not supported by its presence
(Clostridium sp.,Salmonella sp. and e. coli)2."

"Because beet pulp is an ideal food source for these good bacteria, they tend
to overgrow potentially bad bacteria (pathogens and gas producers) and make
the gut much more resistant to these harmful organisms. As a result of this
digestive or fermentation process, vital nutrients called short chain fatty
acids are produced which provide superior nutrition to the cells lining the
large intestine enhancing their ability to function."

"These short chain fatty acids (SCFA) are the key to a healthy and efficient
digestive tract. The cells that line the intestinal track feed voraciously on
SCFA. These cells have a high turnover rate and rely on SCFA to provide
adequate nutrition. 3"

"That portion of beet pulp left after the fermentation of bacterial digestive
process promotes ideal nutrient digestibility. The volume of stool is not
excessive thus allowing the motility of the gut to move the nutrients along
at a rate which assures maximum digestion and absorption."

1. Buterwick, Maxwell. The effect of level and source of dietary fiber on
food intake in the dog. Journal of Nutrition 1994 Vol. 124
2 Collins MD, Gibson Dr. Nutritional modulation of microbial ecology. American
Journal of Clinical Nutrition 1998
3. Hallman JE, Moxley RA, et al. Cellulose, beet pulp and pectin/gum arabic
effects on canine microstructure and histopathology. Veterinary Clinical
Nutrition 1995;2:137-141
4. Albert s. Townshend DVM, Wellness for Life, Am Journal of Clinical
Nutrition
1999


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## monster'sdad (Jul 29, 2012)

The poster above clearly does not understand where psyllium comes from:



_"The product is made from the seeds and seed husks of Plantago psyllium and Plantago ovata . These plants are part of the plantain group and are members of the *buckwheat family*.

Plantains include several plants from the *buckwheat family *(Polygonaceae). Active ingredients come from the leaves of Plantago lanceolata and P. major and from the seeds and husks of P. psyllium and P. ovata."_


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## Foodie (Apr 25, 2010)

monster'sdad said:


> The poster above clearly does not understand where psyllium comes from:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


LOL, sorry, you said it was buckwheat hulls, lmao. Grass and corn are in the same family too but I would never mistake one for the other!

I have nothing against beet pulp either, just trying to keep things straight. This self professed know-it-all poster dishes out a lot of miss-information and opinion disguised as fact. But...if you want to know what the cheapest food is on the market, he's the man for you.


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## monster'sdad (Jul 29, 2012)

Foodie said:


> LOL, sorry, you said it was buckwheat hulls, lmao. Grass and corn are in the same family too but I would never mistake one for the other!
> 
> I have nothing against beet pulp either, just trying to keep things straight. This self professed know-it-all poster dishes out a lot of miss-information and opinion disguised as fact. But...if you want to know what the cheapest food is on the market, he's the man for you.


I back up everything....others don't. If you feel I am wrong, present data to the contrary.


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