# sore muscles, loss of energy



## SonyaBullyDog (Jun 6, 2011)

Hey guys,

I came home from an hour long walk with my dog and she seemed to be pretty tired. I let her rest the rest of the day. At night when I took her out to pee, I had to carry her since she wouldn't walk herself. She seemed to be limping in the front right foot. This morning I had to carry her again to potty and she seemed to not want to put any pressure on either front foot... I tried to massage her, move the feet around to see if anything was hurting her. She didn't mind me doing anything with her legs. She is extremely tired, doesn't want to get up. 

I am on my 2nd week of raw, so only chicken so far. Could this be related to her food? Could it be salmonella poisoning? 

I have a vet appointment in the evening today, but I'm very nervous about this. She hasn't gone number two since 2 days ago!


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

How old is your dog? 

It's most likely not the food if she's limping. 

How is she doing on raw otherwise? It's somewhat normal for dogs not yo poo often on raw- is there a chance she went on your hike without you knowing about it?


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## lmgakg (Jan 1, 2011)

SonyaBullyDog said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I came home from an hour long walk with my dog and she seemed to be pretty tired. I let her rest the rest of the day. At night when I took her out to pee, I had to carry her since she wouldn't walk herself. She seemed to be limping in the front right foot. This morning I had to carry her again to potty and she seemed to not want to put any pressure on either front foot... I tried to massage her, move the feet around to see if anything was hurting her. She didn't mind me doing anything with her legs. She is extremely tired, doesn't want to get up.
> 
> ...


I don't think that dogs can get salmonella poisoning...and not pooping sounds like too much bone and not enough meat. What kind of chicken are you feeding??? Maybe give some hunks of breast meat if you are just feeding backs right now... My Maltese regularly will jump off a chair or the couch and twist an ankle or leg or something trying to beat my big guy to the door and he'll limp for a few days. Never is bothered if I move it around, but needs to be carried. I was alwasy told, to allow him to baby it for a few days and carry him if necessary and he is always back to normal in a few days to a week. He's 10 years old too. Sounds like maybe your dog just twisted something or stepped wrong. If it's only a day or two (less than a week), I'd personally hold off on the vet visit (unless your dog seems in severe pain) - just because if it is a twist, you will pay like crazy for them to say, it will be fine, just give it time. I have a Rott/Shepard mix pup who recently fractured his tail, held it between his legs for 2 days....nothing happened, like getting it caught in a door or anything, but somehow he hurt it and it was obviously bothering him, but I waited it out and tried to keep him calm and he was fine in a few days. Good luck!!!!


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## SonyaBullyDog (Jun 6, 2011)

I guess maybe I am overreacting? She doesn't seem to be in too much pain, but she is more mellow than normal and she doesn't want to get up. She just looks so miserable when I take her out in an attempt to get her to go potty. Her back is arched, her tail is between her legs, and she looks at me pitifully... 

She definitely didn't poop, since I have her on leash at all times on that trail. She's 2 years old. I've fed her chicken quarters, chicken necks, and drumsticks so far.


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## lmgakg (Jan 1, 2011)

I know how you feel!!! I almost cried with Raja and his tail incident, but honestly, it really sounds like a sprain of some sort. You know if you step wrong and somehow manage to twist something...it's uncomfortable. I also notice that my Maltese milks his issues...he loves the constant attention and will for days even after he is walking normally, just stand there, like, come on mom, pick me up! If you really are WORRIED about the pooping thing, give some extra meat tonight, like a chicken breast, it will help with the pooping!! If it continues after a week, I'd take her in...but my groomer aka friend aka "knowall goto dog person" always says just sit back and wait and you'll see. No extra damage will be done in a week, keep them calm and it will be fine.


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## SpooOwner (Oct 1, 2010)

Are the paws tender to the touch?


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## SonyaBullyDog (Jun 6, 2011)

Doesn't seem like it.. She does wiggle a little more when I try to inspect the foot pads. But they're not red or irritated at all though.


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## SpooOwner (Oct 1, 2010)

Could it be a tick borne illness? A dog friend was recently diagnosed with Rocky Mtn Spotted Fever. First symptoms: paws were sore to the touch, weakness and lethargy.


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

I can absolutely guarantee you 1,000% beyond the shadow of a doubt that your dog's problem is not connected to his diet. My first guess would be that walking 1 hour in the Florida sunshine would be the likely cause. If you walked her on sidewalks or streets it would reinforce that even more. Walking through the woods, not so much so but there just aren't a lot of woods in Florida.

Back arched and tail between the legs is a definate sign that she is in pain. I'm thinking heat exaustion but regardless of what people think, I am not a vet. :biggrin: I think she will be OK after a couple days rest.

I woudln't worry too much about 2 days without bowel movement. My dogs do that all the time.


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## SonyaBullyDog (Jun 6, 2011)

So I ended up going to the vet and I just got back. So first things related to the diet: she was very constipated and the vet had to give her an enema and he said that a bunch of "brick-hard" poop came out that was acting like a plug for her other bowel movements. She was also heavily dehydrated. 

Now other things that actually caused me to go the vet in the first place: she has a slightly elevated white blood count, but no fever, and her legs can move fine in any direction. The vet suspects that she caught some kind of doggy-cold and is just feeling sore. He said that neither the dehydration or constipation would be the main cause, but that they didn't help. 

I have some pain killers for her for the next few days, and I will have to come up with clever ways to get her to drink more water (I just added some juice, which seemed to work for now) and plenty of rest. The vet recommended to add pumpkin if I feel that she is getting this constipated on the food that I'm feeding. He doesn't encourage a raw diet, but he doesn't yell at me either, so he's pretty good I think!

I'll keep everyone posted! Thanks for your responses and concerns!

So for tomorrow's breakfast should I remove part of the bone from a chicken quarter? Or I can feed one chicken quarter as a morning meal and some gizzards as the evening meal? I can't go buy chicken breasts today since my paycheck comes on Friday and I got pretty broke this week ...


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## bernadettelevis (Feb 2, 2011)

you could give her chicken broth so she drinks more!!


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## JayJayisme (Aug 2, 2009)

Forget the gizzards. It's too early for these. They are very rich. Just decrease the amount of bone in her diet. More meat - less bone. It's that simple. If you are feeding her a quarter, give her the drumstick and debone the thigh, or vice versa. Just so you know too, raw fed dogs tend to drink less water since much of their water need is met by what is in their meat.


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## 3Musketeers (Nov 4, 2010)

'Does she regularly go on hour long walks? Could be she's just sore from the long walk?

One great thing about raw is that dogs do tend to mellow out, as in, they don't get nearly as many bursts of being all hyper. Not that they are tired or anything, but their energy seems more dispersed throughout the day. The unusual, yet sudden onset of calmness really got to me for a while, seeing as my brats used to go through a cycle of "hyper! then drop-dead tired, must rest, and later hyper! again!", now they are just calmer, yet never get tired as quick.

On another thought, maybe you can try a red meat next, like pork or beef, it's may be richer, but the extra iron will probably perk her up a bit.


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

Remember that Bull terriers are extremely thin skinned and do not do well in the extreme heat. What some dogs consider fun heat B.T's will be having early signs of heat exhaustion.


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## SonyaBullyDog (Jun 6, 2011)

Yeah, I'm gonna try adding some flavor to the water to make sure she drinks. Jay, the vet said that she was badly dehydrated, so it's not that just the behavior of drinking decreased, it's that she isn't getting enough water into her body, through eating or drinking. 

Yeah, I'll get some pork on Friday as the next protein source so hopefully that will help with the constipation. What kind of pork do you think will be good? I'd rather use less bone (i.e. stick to the 10%) so I don't know about ribs...

Interesting about the dogs mellowing out. I wonder if it's the low amount of sugar/ carbs in the raw food diet?

Leo, yeah I'll watch out next time for the heat exhaustion. However, it's hard to find a time of day that's not hot in Florida... When I woke up today at 6am, it was already 93 and 100% humidity!


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## SerenityFL (Sep 28, 2010)

Dogs tend to mellow out? When does this happen? Mine have been on raw for 9 months now and show zero signs of mellowing any time soon.

SonyaBullyDog, you really need to be careful in that Florida heat. (I just moved from there.) When I lived in Florida, I would let the dogs "free run" and it wouldn't take but maybe 5-10 minutes before they had enough. They would flop on the ground in the shade under our meeting tree and did not want a thing to do with any more exercise.

Now I'm in Maine. Those dogs run for HOURS. (I was doing some yard work today for a few hours and they were active the entire time.)

The vet said your dog was dehydrated and you said you went on an hour long walk....the heat is ridiculous this year so just be very careful. Cut those walks down to about half that time and take them only in the early morning hours or late evening hours, (which are still hot so you still have to be careful).


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

I'm thinking that the "brick hard" poop he saw was typical for a newly switched dog eating a bone heavy diet. He's just not used to seeing things like that. I think his description would be an accurate description of any dog eating bone heavy meals. Those would have come out anyway. Get used to the fact that your dog may normally only poop every 2 or 3 days. Thats the way it is with my dogs. Your dog isn't constipated. It's just a different normal for her. Dehydration could have caused the stools to have been even harder.

Normally when a dog is very dehydraded, the vet will give some subcutaneious(sp) fluids to rehydrate them.

To answer your question, yes, you can try to feed a little more meat and see what happens. Just be aware that rock hard stools are not unusual at this stage of raw feeding. In the coming weeks and months as you add more and different protein sources, the stools won't be quite so small or hard.


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## Love my lab (Dec 9, 2010)

I worry about my dog not getting enough water because since starting raw she pretty much doesn't touch her water bowl expect for a serious play period outside, but just general play she could care less about water.....so I just put water in her bowl when I feed her each time. Works great. Yup, rock hard or poop that crumbles when it hits the ground is too much bone. I just make next meal or two boneless. My dog has gone two days w/out going and when we first started it freaked me out, but I got over that. Now we are into the swing of raw it seems she goes once a day and that in itself amazes me....she would go 4x at least per day when on kibble. 

Living in NY weather is pretty mild compared to fla. but we have gotten hot humid days and my girl just hates them. She wants to play but get panting and breathing hard so I keep it at a minimal being outside. The sun is a magnent to her black coat which makes her get hotter faster. We will do water play and that helps her burn energy and stay cool.


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

When the weather gets warm here which is nothing compared to FL, I'll say in the upper 70's my dogs definitely have a hard time with it. They are climatized to the NW and I'm sure Sonya is to the FL weather also, but because of their thin skin and genetics you need to take precautions for her.

I put fans in the house, one in each room. When it is extremely hot I will load a ice chest with ice and put it in front of the biggest fan. We keep all the blinds closed so as to keep it as cool as possible for the dogs. I have a couple of cool beds that I set up. And of course I put ice in their water. I don't take them out with me only if I'm running to the store and then I leave my car running, (yes, with keys in it and the air conditioner running full blast) no one dare's try to steal my car with 3 Bull Terriers in it. I only take them because they are used to going somewhere in the car at least 4-5 days a week and if we have a hot spell, they start to really sulk.

Hope this helps with some things you might try.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

when i want my dogs to drink more....one is a pug and also does not do well with extreme temperatures....and it doesn't take much....especially summer (which we haven't quite gotten yet)....what i do is either add my own chicken broth to their water...which will
make them drink.....since everyone loves loves loves my chicken broth LOL...

or i add the red liquid juices to their bowls with their food....

or i just give them fluid as a treat....they love bloody water and they love broth...hot or cold...it's good for them..

i am concerned about what your vet said about your baby being badly dehydrated...sounds like a scare tactic to me....because fluids would have been given on the spot, since dogs can die from dehydration...but to send you home to give your dogs fluids...well, that doesn't sound like 'badly dehydrated'.....plus, the enema, whilst i'm sure it made you feel better....seems overkill to me, since most newly transitioned dogs who are fed heavy bone diets in the beginning tend toward harder stools.....when that happens....just back off the bone a little...as has been suggested..

i know this is a rocky ride...especially in the beginning......think of it as we are all holding your hand and you're on a path we've all been on.....and it's scary....but it's worth it.


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## Tobi (Mar 18, 2011)

I'm glad Sonya is okay!! Brick hard poops, like Bill said bone heavy, just lighten up on some of the bone in meals a bit when you get back on track, as far as dehydration goes, we bought one of the pet fountains from petsmart when they were on sale... and ive gotta say, he drinks more now even on raw than he ever has before!!! even the cat drinks a ton from it, it's absolutely fantastic!!! although were going outside more often to pee but that's a small concession.

The one i'm talking about is here.
http://www.vetventures.com/products-fountains.asp
Robin is also right about how much heat they can take. Mine is done outside in about 20 minutes of hard play and activity, hiking is another story, were always near water so he can take a dip if he's hot and get a drink.


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## SonyaBullyDog (Jun 6, 2011)

Thanks guys! It's my first summer here in Florida, so I'm not yet used to the idea of not going outside during the day. Yeah when I got home, I wondered why the vet didn't give her IV fluids... Oh well..

I put some chicken stock in the water with some salmon oil (she needs to get that daily for her coat anyways) and she drank it right up. I'll look into the fountain idea, I'll have to see if they have it on sale anywhere. I took out the drumstick bone from the quarter this morning, so we'll see how she does on less bone. Thank you for the great advice and encouragement! She is feeling a little better. She walked herself to pee today, yay!


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## lmgakg (Jan 1, 2011)

SonyaBullyDog said:


> So I ended up going to the vet and I just got back. So first things related to the diet: she was very constipated and the vet had to give her an enema and he said that a bunch of "brick-hard" poop came out that was acting like a plug for her other bowel movements. She was also heavily dehydrated.
> 
> Now other things that actually caused me to go the vet in the first place: she has a slightly elevated white blood count, but no fever, and her legs can move fine in any direction. The vet suspects that she caught some kind of doggy-cold and is just feeling sore. He said that neither the dehydration or constipation would be the main cause, but that they didn't help.
> 
> ...


A friend of mine feeds organ for constipation...so in a pinch (I'm a single mom, I know all about being broke!!!!) sounds like it would be good. I feed a beef rib if I think that maybe they are constipated and I leave a little more beef on the rib than I usually would...the red meat always makes them go!!!! Also - something that my guys LOVE is when I thaw the meat out, I save all the "juice" and will either just pour into bowls and let them drink or I put it in ice cube trays to freeze. Then they have blood cubes for treats!! It's way better than a plain ice cube, but it's such a good hydrater and I know sometimes they suck up the blood like crazy but they wouldn't touch a bowl of water! I'm glad your vet is great like that. Mine is basically the same way, he said, he doesn't know enough about raw to make a determination, but that my boys look awesome so whatever I am doing, is totally working and to keep it up! pumpkin is a miracle for the stomach and digestion, kind of like plain yogurt. I used a teaspoon a day for when my pup was little and having lots of stomach issues, that was pre-raw, but it still really helped him. Happy your baby is doing better!!!


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