# homemade food causing diarrhea



## orangeena (Aug 26, 2010)

I started feeding my dog homemade food about a week and a half ago. He has a lot of health problems so, I thought it might be helpful. (He doesn't suffer from any digestive issues, only joint and heart problems.)

The last 2 days he has developed diarrhea. His stools had been a little looser since I started, but I figured that was from going from dry kibble to a wet food. But, now it's diarrhea and he's clearly uncomfortable. 

The recipe I found online was 40% meat, 30% veggies, 30% grain. For the first two batches, I used chicken, white rice and carrots. I had planned on switching to different meats and veggies every couple weeks to make sure he got all the nutrion he needed. 

What am I doing wrong? I switched him back to his kibble tonight because I couldn't bear to see him in such discomfort, but I know I don't want to keep feeding him that processed junk food forever.


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

I think most of the advice you will get around here is to not cook but to feed prey model raw. I can promise you that your dog will get all the nutrients he needs in the proper balance. Check out my web page linked in my sig.

To answer your question your dog has diarrhea because of veggies and grain. Both unnecessary in a canine diet. When I first began feeding raw, I would feed my dogs veggies once a week and they would always have diarrhea the next day.

Check out my page and see what you think. You can come back here and ask questions or you can email me directly.


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## jdatwood (Apr 13, 2009)

orangeena said:


> The recipe I found online was 40% meat, 30% veggies, 30% grain.


Where did you read this? It's about 60% wrong for a carnivore.

I agree with RFD. With that much grain and veggies it's no wonder your dog has the runs.

Cut out the veggies & grain and add in some high bone in meat and you'll be headed in the right direction.

Also take a look at our site (as well as RFD's) for more information
Dedicated to proper carnivore nutrition - Prey Model Raw Feeding for Dogs & Cats


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

when we home cooked....

we used egg shell, which helped...

we used 75% protein source and 25% veg/starch ( for fibre only, not because it did them any good.)

because we used organ meat, the starches (quinoa and brown rice, both low glycemic) gave them fibre, along with air dried washed ground egg shell...

i will be glad to send you my recipe and maybe that would help...but in all truth....raw did my dogs a whole lot better than cooked.

what are his health problems?


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## orangeena (Aug 26, 2010)

Thanks everyone for the advice. I'll definitely reduce the grains and veggies starting tonight....and look for a better recipe. I don't recall where I got the recipe I was using. Obviously not a reputable site, though. I was looking at some of the raw recipes. I'm not sure I'm thrilled with the raw thing...more of an issue with my own comfort...I'm vegetarian! I may give it a try though.

Magicre, I have a chihuaha, only 7 years old, but starting to fall apart, health-wise. He was diagnosed with a heart arrhythmia about 2 years ago that is still on the mild side, but getting progressively worse. No action has been recommended by the vet yet, they're just monitoring it closely for now. He's also got bad very arthritis in two of his legs....to the point where his joints are completely immobile at times. Add to that a recent long battle with an autoimmune attack to the arthritis inflammation. We finally got that into remission after months of joint taps, oral and injected steroids and chemotherapy. 

After all these vet bills, it left me wondering about the food he eats and if that has been a contributing factor (particularly to his heart problem.) I talked to the vet about it, but he only recommended what I was already feeding (Nutro) or prescription Science Diet food....which didn't seem much better.

I would love to see recipes anyone recommends! I have been looking into the satin balls recipe I saw posted here, but I'm open to all options at this point.

thanks!


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## JayJayisme (Aug 2, 2009)

orangeena said:


> I'm not sure I'm thrilled with the raw thing...more of an issue with my own comfort...I'm vegetarian!


It's nice that omnivores like humans can choose one path, or the other, or a compromise between the two. Unfortunately, herbivores and carnivores cannot adapt to the other extreme, nor can they thrive on a compromise. 

I'm sure your dog loves you to death and respects your desire and decision to be a vegetarian. So in return might I suggest that you respect his *needs* as a carnivore. You wouldn't feed meat to a rabbit or a horse, right? That's absurd. But really, it's no more absurd than feeding veggies and grains to a dog.

You will read over and over again that dogs are omnivores, which is marketing garbage promoted by the less-than-wholesome pet food industry in order for them to justify the cheap ingredients they use as fillers and binders in their products. 

But look at the biology and evolutionary characteristics of a canine, and you will clearly see that they are carnivores plain and simple. Neither you nor I can change that so the best thing to insure optimum health for our carnivore friends is to feed them a species-appropriate diet, which for them is lots of raw meat, some raw bones, and some organs. It doesn't matter if you have the smallest Pomeranian, a big Poodle, or a stocky Pit Bull. They are all carnivores one and the same.

You will see this repeated over and over throughout this, and other similar forums. It's not because we all drank the same Kool-Aid, or that we are fanatics. It's only because. like you, we were all kibble feeders at one time and after switching our dogs (and cats for some) to a raw meaty bone diet, we have seen the incredible benefits and health improvements with our own eyes. It's truly a transformation and once you see it you will understand why we are so adamant about a proper diet, probably much like you are with your own human diet. I hope you'll give raw a chance.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

orangeena said:


> Thanks everyone for the advice. I'll definitely reduce the grains and veggies starting tonight....and look for a better recipe. I don't recall where I got the recipe I was using. Obviously not a reputable site, though. I was looking at some of the raw recipes. I'm not sure I'm thrilled with the raw thing...more of an issue with my own comfort...I'm vegetarian! I may give it a try though.
> 
> Magicre, I have a chihuaha, only 7 years old, but starting to fall apart, health-wise. He was diagnosed with a heart arrhythmia about 2 years ago that is still on the mild side, but getting progressively worse. No action has been recommended by the vet yet, they're just monitoring it closely for now. He's also got bad very arthritis in two of his legs....to the point where his joints are completely immobile at times. Add to that a recent long battle with an autoimmune attack to the arthritis inflammation. We finally got that into remission after months of joint taps, oral and injected steroids and chemotherapy.
> 
> ...


the one thing that dogs and humans have in common is the relationship between the food and health.

since i started down this path a few years ago, i discovered some things about nutro products in particular....this is not to say that i can say this as fact, but my OPINION is that nutro shortened the life of three of my dogs because of an ingredient called menadione -- this is a synthetic vitamin k that is very controversial and there are many articles written about it.

i am so very sorry to hear about your chi.....it surely does seem as if health issues abound....with him....

there are two things to consider when feeding our animals...one is to understand that they are animals...

and the other thing to understand is nutritional needs and who do you believe these days?

when i see the president of aafco, which sets standards for dog foods, state on video that yes, rendered animals are used in kibble...i am speechless and for me, that says a lot....how then can i feed kibble and of course it would contribute to a dog's health or not health.

does home cooking do the trick? it didn't with my 13 1/2 year old shih tzu...then again, i didn't connect the dots about teeth and bacteria and pain and starches and sugars until my husband was diagnosed with periodontal disease and will lose some teeth very soon....my shih tzu was on home cooked....to keep the stools firm, certain things must be added.....fibres..but unfortunately, what fibres can we add to home cooking that a dog needs?

the answer, to my dismay, is nothing added will help a dog...and, in the end, hurt the dog....

a conundrum and a sad one to be sure...

the only answer that made any sense was raw...it starts with the mouth...and gets the bacteria off the teeth....dogs swallow just like we do...so the bacteria goes into their systems...

i think you are a very loving person who is watching her friend go down hill --

would it be worth a six month experiment to see if raw works to maybe help?

there are no guarantees, of course.....and being a vegetarian, it would take a great commitment on your part....

but if you decided to stay with home cooking....you could use NOW bone meal, which is human grade...that will act as a fibre....you can also use air dried egg shells ground in a coffee grinder for calcium and fibre.....

slow roast everything - low heat
use as much red meats as you can
add liver and other organ meat (kidney is a good example) -- you don't need much of the liver and other organs....
gizzards
no veggies
no starches
egg shell and NOW bone meal - for egg shell, it's 900 mg per pound of food...not sure what it is for the bone meal....
sardines packed in water
mackerel if you can get it....

omega three gelcaps - many use salmon oil...get the extra virgin, mercury free -- if you belong to costco, they have alaskan salmon oil gelcaps that are very acceptable....

you will want to add
berte's immune blend and berte's green blend (Dog nutrition for arthritis, joint, cancer, heart, kidney, bladder, liver, reproductive system, senior care, stress, anxiety, yeast, and fungal. Fish oil, essential fatty acids, EFA, green foods, kelp, herbs, herbal formulas, immune support, vitamins)

you can make this once a month....and if your dog has teeth, chop it, don't puree it....put it in baggies or food saver thingies.....

she also has arthitis formulas and a yahoo group where she can help you with the arthritis....

and then you should be good to go...

don't feed potatoes or rices or starches of any kind...sugar feeds disease...especially arthritis...it's true in humans...it will be true in dogs...

if you can bring yourself to get some chicken feet, let him chew on them..they have condroitin and glucosamine in them and they are edible....not so messy, just ugly...

and if you research raw and decide to go that way....there are so many here who will help you...my almost eleven year old malia bounces...she didn't bounce a year ago.

i'm not saying raw will lengthen a dog's life...but what it will do is take away that which a dog does not need and that which actually hurts their digestive tract, teeth, heart, etc....and possibly improve the quality of life....

i feel your pain....and anything i can do to help...


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## orangeena (Aug 26, 2010)

JayJayisme said:


> I'm sure your dog loves you to death and respects your desire and decision to be a vegetarian. So in return might I suggest that you respect his *needs* as a carnivore. You wouldn't feed meat to a rabbit or a horse, right? That's absurd. But really, it's no more absurd than feeding veggies and grains to a dog.


I never said I was feeding my dog veggies and grains because I am a vegetarian. I am well aware that dogs need meat in their diet.

I am guilty of finding a bad recipe online with a poor ratio of ingredients, but I did not remove meat from his diet because I don't like it, nor did I intentionally or knowingly choose a poorly balanced recipe for my own comfort. My only comment about being a vegetarian was regarding dealing with raw meat daily, but I also said I was considering it and open to all advice. 

Assume whatever you will about my personal diet and the choices I made for my dog thus far, but if I was not concerned for his nutritional needs, I would have not come here seeking constructive advice, or I would have left him on kibble altogether.


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## orangeena (Aug 26, 2010)

magicre said:


> the one thing that dogs and humans have in common is the relationship between the food and health.
> 
> since i started down this path a few years ago, i discovered some things about nutro products in particular....this is not to say that i can say this as fact, but my OPINION is that nutro shortened the life of three of my dogs because of an ingredient called menadione -- this is a synthetic vitamin k that is very controversial and there are many articles written about it.
> 
> ...



Magicre, thanks so much for your helpful post. I am printing off this list of ingredients and heading to costco and the grocery store after work tonight. 

I am still considering raw. I do want what is best for my dog. I'm assuming these ingredients would work ok raw if I froze everything in batches and thawed as needed? If I would need to make an adjustments for raw, let me know.

Also, is there any guide as to how much to feed? I've looked for some type of weight chart, but can't seem to find one. My dog is 12 lb. Huge for a chihuahua, but he's actually a bit underweight for his size after all the chemo he just finished. Somehow, with a sire and dam both between 5-7 lbs, we ended up with a pure-bred chihuahua giant!


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## sassymaxmom (Dec 7, 2008)

Try 2-4% of his body weight for starters, just like raw. For more information about feeding a good cooked diet go to B-Naturals.com. 75% meat/fish/egg/organ and 25% veggies for bulk because you aren't feeding bone which has a lot of not very digestible collagen that serves as bulk in a raw meat/bone/organ diet.
Cooked Diet | B-Naturals.Com Newsletter

Substituting veggies for bone takes a lot of extra time and money. Raw is much easier, cheaper and better for the dog. I hope you find your way there in time but a thoughtful cooked diet is light years better than any kibble.

Your dog is ill because of the sudden diet change, not the ingredients in the cooked food. Grains and veggies aren't the ancestral diet but most dogs do survive eating them. Give the gut a rest and feed tiny amounts often after a day or so and things should get better. Dogs new to prey model raw get upset stomachs too.

Once he is used to a meat or veggie then you can serve up different meals each day but each new food needs to be gradually introduced. I would switch 10% of one ingredient in Sassy's cooked food every 4 days. Excruciating doing it all but she can eat pork, chicken, beef, lamb, rice, pasta, potatoes in any combination now. I don't think most dogs need such a careful introduction but she is very old and very ill.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

orangeena said:


> Magicre, thanks so much for your helpful post. I am printing off this list of ingredients and heading to costco and the grocery store after work tonight.
> 
> I am still considering raw. I do want what is best for my dog. I'm assuming these ingredients would work ok raw if I froze everything in batches and thawed as needed? If I would need to make an adjustments for raw, let me know.
> 
> Also, is there any guide as to how much to feed? I've looked for some type of weight chart, but can't seem to find one. My dog is 12 lb. Huge for a chihuahua, but he's actually a bit underweight for his size after all the chemo he just finished. Somehow, with a sire and dam both between 5-7 lbs, we ended up with a pure-bred chihuahua giant!


i have a feeling...and i'm not trying to push you.....honest....i guess, after having to put down four dogs in less than two years...has made me a true raw advocate, because to my dismay, i have hindsight...which does my four dogs no good, but certainly is helping the two i have left...

that IS pretty big for a chi....but i would start with chicken backs....and then go over to the raw section and read, read, read....

if you're going to stay with home cooked, i suspect the recipe you were using......the carrots were probably the cause of diarrhea...for your chi...

we used whole eggs in our formula....we poached the egg and then dried the shells...and used a coffee grinder to grind the shell and then added it to the recipe....that was in place of bone....and egg shell has calcium.

it comes out to 900 mg per pound of food, i believe.....

also, NOW is a human supplement that is nutritional bone meal....if you're going to keep cooking, you can use that, although i don't know what the ratio is....don't want to constipate either...

don't give any veggies at all....dogs can't digest it, veggies have sugar in them and sugar feeds disease.....

so, meat/fowl/fish/organs/eggshell and bone meal....

but the best scenario for your chi would be to come over to the raw side, where any number of us will hold your hand and walk you through the transition.


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