# Meat selections



## Dobelover (Mar 14, 2013)

What cuts of meat do you think is best? (besides organ meat)


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

Beef heart.


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## Fundog (Oct 25, 2012)

What? It's ALL good, lol. A nice chunk of chuck roast that the butcher accidentally dropped in the sink...

A lovely little goat shoulder....


The heads and tails from the humans' rainbow trout...


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## kathylcsw (Jul 31, 2011)

Any cut of deer. I just think that is the most natural, best for them meat. I feed my dogs about 40% deer and they look fabulous.


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## wolfsnaps88 (Jan 2, 2012)

Red meat...wild game that is free of hormones, steroids, antibiotics, etc. and is grass fed (namely, venison) is my favorite. I get a lot of that during deer season (so far). In a store? Probably grass fed beef (not that I can afford that personally). 

Oh, and free. To me, free is the best. LOL. 

The key is variety though so mix it up if you can.


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## monster'sdad (Jul 29, 2012)

There is no best. The animal needs the correct balance of 10 amino acids EVERY DAY so a properly balanced mix of chicken or turkey, egg and fish is the best for most dogs.

Mammals cannot store amino acids, so the proper level and balance should be fed each day.

Feeding game should be ok but realize that wild animals eat, drink and store many environment toxins, natural and man-made, and may contain high levels of minerals like copper, so don't assume wild venison is safe to feed every day. In some parts of the country, venison will test high for persistant chemicals and metals like chromium and lead. 

As for hormones and steroids, it is illegal in the United States to use hormones and steroids on all poultry and hogs.


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## Tobi (Mar 18, 2011)

Making things a bit more complicated than it needs to be md...

A good rotation, Any part of any animal save for the intestines can and should be fed, feed whatever you can get your hands on, red meats are far more important than chicken and turkey, they should be fed consistently. Wolves and other carnivores are getting along just fine still today with a consistent diet of ungulates, and rabbits.


I've been feeding venison for the last 2 years as a staple, all parts, all organs... Blood panels are spot on.


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## SuperPug (Mar 5, 2013)

kathylcsw said:


> Any cut of deer. I just think that is the most natural, best for them meat. I feed my dogs about 40% deer and they look fabulous.


Ditto. Anything from the wild is as natural and (in my opinion) the best meat you can give.


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## SuperPug (Mar 5, 2013)

monster'sdad said:


> As for hormones and steroids, it is illegal in the United States to use hormones and steroids on all poultry and hogs.


Yet, I am STILL seeing young girls developing way too fast because of hormone flooded poultry. Clearly it isn't being enforced


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## pogo (Aug 28, 2011)

beef heart and any venison i can get, i'm finding more sources of deer here and i feed it as often as i can


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## monster'sdad (Jul 29, 2012)

Beef heart is one of the worst things you can feed unless you make up for calcium from something else. And you really have no way of knowing in the end what you are feeding when you take this approach. This is exactly what the schools find when they test raw diets, imbalances and deficiences. Tuft's used the term "extremely deficient in calcium" even when bones were fed.

*"Hyperparathyroidism was produced experimentally in 23 rapidly growing
kittens with an immature skeleton by feeding a diet of beef heart and distilled
water. The experimental diet was deficient in calcium but contained an adequate
amount of phosphorus. Weekly serum analyses revealed a significant hypocalcemia
after feeding the diet for 3 weeks. The parathyroid glands of experimental cats
were hyperplastic and were dominated by hypertrophied light chief cells. There
was a generalized decrease in density of the bones roentgenographically by the
3rd week with a loss of fine trabeculation and thinning of bone cortices in the
appendicular skeleton. Clinical signs were first observed at 4 weeks. The cats
developed a posterior lameness, were quiet and reluctant to move. The skeletal
lesions of increased osteocytic and osteoclastic resorption, osteoblastic apposition,
diminished mineral content, and replacement of resorbed bone by fibrous connective
tissue were considered to be a morphologic reflection of increased secretion
of parathyroid hormone. The osteitis fibrosa produced in kittens differed
from the osteoporosis reported in adult cats with a mature skeleton fed a similar diet."*


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## SuperPug (Mar 5, 2013)

Are you aware that RAW diet isn't supposed to be about 1 meat? If so, then I don't think you'd be so against beef heart. This study appears to have fed the kittens solely beef heart. Which shouldn't be done with any meat.


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

Dobelover - variety is the key. The more variety the better which is what some people forget and then others post these faulty "studies" about. Heart is a staple boneless cut for us and we give heart from many different animals. We also feed roast cuts and lung for boneless. Bone in for us is poultry both chicken and turkey, rabbit, goat, lamb/sheep, and pork. Sometimes we get some beef ribs or beef neck. Sardines we feed fresh caught and whole. Once in a while emu, venison, elk or bison are fed if we can get it. I get bison liver and kidney through our co-op twice per year.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

i try to feed as many parts of as many animals as i can get, along with fowl and fish.

i feed as many red meats as i can. our dogs get, bison, lamb, turkey, chicken, fish, rabbit, elk, venison, beef, pork.....that's what i can remember as i try to go through the freezers and what they are stocked with.

if i can get the tongue of a cow, and the shank of a lamb, and a shoulder of a pig, some sardines, heart of a lamb, bison necks, rabbit heads for brains, ......

whatever parts i can get to come close to putting together a whole animal, i'm a happy camper.


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## Tobi (Mar 18, 2011)

monster'sdad said:


> Beef heart is one of the worst things you can feed unless you make up for calcium from something else. And you really have no way of knowing in the end what you are feeding when you take this approach. This is exactly what the schools find when they test raw diets, imbalances and deficiences. Tuft's used the term "extremely deficient in calcium" even when bones were fed.
> 
> *"Hyperparathyroidism was produced experimentally in 23 rapidly growing
> kittens with an immature skeleton by feeding a diet of beef heart and distilled
> ...


More rhetoric... So many problems with what you post... Nobody here says to feed a growing animal one protein source and only that... Heart is a great source of nutrition, again... Like every other successful RAW feeder on this thread is saying to properly balance a raw diet, different protein sources are needed... That study is about growing kittens being fed that and only that... How does that make beef heart bad as a whole to give once a week, or a few times a month. 

You're acting like every time a dog eats a raw meal it needs to be 100% balanced like your "balanced kibbles" LOL balance over time, rotation, protein changes, feeding wide ranges of parts from animals, these are all things that go into it... My dog ears beef heart frequently but for some reason according to your post he shouldn't have correct calcium phosphorus ratios and he does... How odd...:wacko:

Quit trying to be inflammatory it gets really old, And hard to enjoy a forum with "some people" acting this way...

ETA: how horrible must these cats bowel movements must have been only getting something like that, it's not a wonder they were lethargic, and sickly... What was this study meant to prove? Eating only heart is bad? Common sense could have told us that...


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

Tobi said:


> More rhetoric... So many problems with what you post... Nobody here says to feed a growing animal one protein source and only that... Heart is a great source of nutrition, again... Like every other successful RAW feeder on this thread is saying to properly balance a raw diet, different protein sources are needed... That study is about growing kittens being fed that and only that... How does that make beef heart bad as a whole to give once a week, or a few times a month.
> 
> You're acting like every time a dog eats a raw meal it needs to be 100% balanced like your "balanced kibbles" LOL balance over time, rotation, protein changes, feeding wide ranges of parts from animals, these are all things that go into it... My dog ears beef heart frequently but for some reason according to your post he shouldn't have correct calcium phosphorus ratios and he does... How odd...:wacko:
> 
> Quit trying to be inflammatory it gets really old, And hard to enjoy a forum with "some people" acting this way...


It goes to show he doesn't know how to feed raw.


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## monster'sdad (Jul 29, 2012)

Yes, everytime a dog eats the meal should be balanced. Feeding 100 different proteins is of no value. 10 amino acids are needed and that is it. Chicken and egg (fish is nice too) and you are good to go. Consistency assures proper assimiliation.

Don't take this the wrong way, but you won't see the deficiences in house dogs, but they are there. I have seen them in field dogs. They just don't hold up.

Someone asked about meat choices and the issue is not about that. The question should be: "What Amino Acids are Required and Which Foods Have Them"


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## SuperPug (Mar 5, 2013)

I haven't been on the forum very long, but from what I've read, you've given some biased, incorrect and uneducated information. If I were you, I'd stop acting like I know everything.


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## Tobi (Mar 18, 2011)

monster'sdad said:


> Yes, everytime a dog eats the meal should be balanced. Feeding 100 different proteins is of no value. 10 amino acids are needed and that is it. Chicken and egg (fish is nice too) and you are good to go. Consistency assures proper assimiliation.
> 
> Don't take this the wrong way, but you won't see the deficiences in house dogs, but they are there. I have seen them in field dogs. They just don't hold up.


Maybe the field dogs weren't given a "proper" raw diet...hwell:

Blood panels would show the deficiencies, just like my kibble fed ferret... Anemic, with calc, and Phosphorus ratios that were all over the place... And to think, he was on a "well balanced" kibble!!! :heh:

ETA: to the OP, things are getting a little sidelined, and for that my apologies, as others and myself have said, anything on the animals that they will eat, except the intestines is awesome to feed, we often feed trachea and gullet, sinew, reproductive organs ( testes, penis, ovaries) eyes, brain, it's all about balance over time


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## DaViking (Sep 27, 2011)

I like anything tongue. If you can get it pork tongue is great for active dogs or any hard keeper.


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## monster'sdad (Jul 29, 2012)

Here is some real science for you:

Lauten SD, Smith TM, Kirk CA, Bartges JW, Adams A, Wynn SG. Computer Analysis of Nutrient Sufficiency of Published Home-Cooked Diets for Dogs and Cats. Proceedings of the American College of Veterinary Internal Medicine Forum 2005.

Roudebush P, Cowell CS. Results of a hypoallergenic diet survey of veterinarians in North America with a nutritional evaluation of homemade diet prescriptions. Veterinary Dermatology 1992;3:23-28.

Taylor MB, Geiger DA, Saker KE, Larson MM. Diffuse osteopenia and myelopathy in a puppy fed a diet composed of an organic premix and raw ground beef. Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association 2009;234(8):1041-8.


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

monster'sdad said:


> Yes, everytime a dog eats the meal should be balanced. Feeding 100 different proteins is of no value. 10 amino acids are needed and that is it. Chicken and egg (fish is nice too) and you are good to go. Consistency assures proper assimiliation.
> 
> There is no creature who eats a whole food diet (unprocessed) that eats 100% balance in every meal btu those meals balance out over time.
> 
> ...


The question was about a meat choice in the Raw Feeding Section. Your opinion was not asked on what you deemed the question should be. If you must post in the Raw Feeding Forum about a method of feeding you do not adhere to please at least have the courtesy to stick to the topic. 

Liz


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## monster'sdad (Jul 29, 2012)

I am sorry blood panels won't show dogs that cannot recover adequately from training or pad leather so thin it peeled off, or the tendency for hypogycemia.


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

monster'sdad said:


> I am sorry blood panels won't show dogs that cannot recover adequately from training or pad leather so thin it peeled off, or the tendency for hypogycemia.


Since none of our dogs on this thread are having an issue with anything like this it is a moot point and you are distracting from the original question posed by the OP.


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## monster'sdad (Jul 29, 2012)

Liz said:


> The question was about a meat choice in the Raw Feeding Section. Your opinion was not asked on what you deemed the question should be. If you must post in the Raw Feeding Forum about a method of feeding you do not adhere to please at least have the courtesy to stick to the topic.
> 
> Liz


I did...but it is obvious to me that most people, especially in this section, don't have the qualifications to recommend this type of feeding. Yet they carry themselves as scientific experts.

Recommending kibble is entirely different, you can't kill a dog with a bad pick, but you can easily turn that dream puppy into a dead puppy by feeding it only chicken quarters and adding extra bone to stop diarrhea or vomiting. Same thing could happen loading a puppy or dog up on red meat.


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## SuperPug (Mar 5, 2013)

monster'sdad said:


> Here is some real science for you:
> 
> Lauten SD, Smith TM, Kirk CA, Bartges JW, Adams A, Wynn SG. Computer Analysis of Nutrient Sufficiency of Published Home-Cooked Diets for Dogs and Cats. Proceedings of the American College of Veterinary Internal Medicine Forum 2005.
> 
> ...


That's not science. And they're outdated.


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## monster'sdad (Jul 29, 2012)

SuperPug said:


> That's not science. And they're outdated.


Ok that's not science. LOLOLO and old :shocked:


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## SuperPug (Mar 5, 2013)

monster'sdad said:


> I did...but it is obvious to me that most people, especially in this section, don't have the qualifications to recommend this type of feeding. Yet they carry themselves as scientific experts.
> 
> Recommending kibble is entirely different, you can't kill a dog with a bad pick, but you can easily turn that dream puppy into a dead puppy by feeding it only chicken quarters and adding extra bone to stop diarrhea or vomiting.


You're "facts" have no weight. You're so against raw feeding but yet you cannot provide a single weightful study that raw feeding is wrong. Which BTW, hasn't been proven wrong. It has actually proven that dogs are healthier on a raw diet. I've seen dogs who were put on prescription kibble and the vets said they cannot eat anything but that crappy corn filled kibble and then switched to a raw diet. All their health problems disappeared in a span of a month.


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## Tobi (Mar 18, 2011)

monster'sdad said:


> I am sorry blood panels won't show dogs that cannot recover adequately from training or pad leather so thin it peeled off, or the tendency for hypogycemia.


Gosh, it seems like maybe you got bad advice the first time you were raw feeding, so you were I'll equipped for the ins and outs of it, since you keep referring back to feeding a solitary nutrient deficient source that likely wild dogs, and wolves wouldn't be eating anyways.



monster'sdad said:


> I did...but it is obvious to me that most people, especially in this section, don't have the qualifications to recommend this type of feeding. Yet they carry themselves as scientific experts.
> 
> Recommending kibble is entirely different, you can't kill a dog with a bad pick, but you can easily turn that dream puppy into a dead puppy by feeding it only chicken quarters and adding extra bone to stop diarrhea or vomiting.


Nobody gives this terrible advice on here, well, at least not in the limited amount of time I've been here, nobody advocates much of what your saying at all... Feeding a salmonella filled kibble could lead to a dead puppy too... Just saying. :tongue:

But seriously, if you have a problem with the raw feeding because you don't quite understand how, just let us know via private message or something and we can work something out, it might curb your negative outlook on it and help you feel more comfortable with it.

And don't forget, the kibble section is always a click away :mullet:


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## rescuedogs (Mar 13, 2013)

I think the absolute most important thing you need to do when you join any new forum - especially if you are a newbie like me & hoping to get solid, sensible advice from people experienced in the subject you are interested in - is to find the forum's "IGNORE" button & use it judiciously. 

JMHO........I'm off to do that now.


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## Rvent (Apr 15, 2012)

monster'sdad said:


> Beef heart is one of the worst things you can feed unless you make up for calcium from something else. And you really have no way of knowing in the end what you are feeding when you take this approach. This is exactly what the schools find when they test raw diets, imbalances and deficiences. Tuft's used the term "extremely deficient in calcium" even when bones were fed.
> 
> *"Hyperparathyroidism was produced experimentally in 23 rapidly growing
> kittens with an immature skeleton by feeding a diet of beef heart and distilled
> ...


First off the article your using as reference is about cats and kittens not dogs, cats have a much different requirement than dogs, its like comparing apples to grapefruits really.

I don't want a pissing match over kibble vs raw because I fed kibble for years and still have a foster dog on kibble, but how do you know what kind of animal part is going into that food, I am pretty sure there are lots of parts and what not that should NEVER be fed to any animal, there has been plenty of evidence of dog carcases going into
some foods. 

If nothing else I know exactly what my dog is eating and where it came from.


And to answer the OP I use a lot of heart from all different sources, turkey,chicken,duck,lamb,pork,and beef it is one of my main boneless staple, I also like tongue from what ever source I can get.


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

Totally agree Rvent - I always forget tongue because it tends to be expensive but they do love it. 


Liz


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## DaViking (Sep 27, 2011)

Liz said:


> Totally agree Rvent - I always forget tongue because it tends to be expensive but they do love it.
> 
> 
> Liz


Try pork tongue, excellent spread of amino acids and "jet fuel" for active dogs. Hog farmers, natural or traditional, can often get return cuts and I am sure some are willing to make a buck or two.


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

Good idea - thank you for the hint. I have only found them at a Hispanic market a couple of times. Now I will check with some farmers.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

MD has been banned.

Please carry on with your raw feeding discussion


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## SuperPug (Mar 5, 2013)

I heard tongue is a super chewy muscle. It sounds like it'd be a great workout for dogs.


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## Tobi (Mar 18, 2011)

SuperPug said:


> I heard tongue is a super chewy muscle. It sounds like it'd be a great workout for dogs.


They cut through like butter lol! Don't let them fool you! And daviking, pork tongue is amazing, totally agree.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

i've not been able to find pork tongue, but i do love lamb tongues for the pug......and the corgi mix. i would imagine the collie would like them too, though beef tongue works well for the collie.

maybe should liz find pork tongues, she will kindly direct me toward them.

don't forget heads...even if you can't feed the actual head, the cheeks are awesome, as are the brains...and the eyes.


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## Tobi (Mar 18, 2011)

magicre said:


> i've not been able to find pork tongue, but i do love lamb tongues for the pug......and the corgi mix. i would imagine the collie would like them too, though beef tongue works well for the collie.
> 
> maybe should liz find pork tongues, she will kindly direct me toward them.
> 
> don't forget heads...even if you can't feed the actual head, the cheeks are awesome, as are the brains...and the eyes.


Cheek meat is $$$$$ we had to take heads last time lol!


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

we have a place where i can buy a case of cheeks...but wowza it was expensive.

i buy half pigs from my korean market and they throw the head in for free. i'm going to talk to them about heads and whether or not they can get them for me regularly.



SuperPug said:


> I heard tongue is a super chewy muscle. It sounds like it'd be a great workout for dogs.


it's a great workout for a pug


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## Riveroaks (Apr 7, 2013)

meggels said:


> MD has been banned.
> 
> Please carry on with your raw feeding discussion


It nice to see moderators that actually ban members that are argumentative and add no value to the forum.

Hopefully he's been banned from the entire site and not just this post.

Either way THANKS!


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## Gally (Jan 28, 2012)

I wish I could afford tongues. They are readily available here but cost around $5/lb


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## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

Beef heart is a staple in our house as far as meat goes and bone comes from pork ribs, turkey necks, and whole turkey carcasses after most of the meat has been removed. We have other bone and meat sources as well but heart is a staple and those are our most common bones.


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## Rvent (Apr 15, 2012)

DaViking said:


> Try pork tongue, excellent spread of amino acids and "jet fuel" for active dogs. Hog farmers, natural or traditional, can often get return cuts and I am sure some are willing to make a buck or two.


I have it and pork hearts, but my dogs seem to get cannon butt from pork I have to feed it in small amounts.


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## Rvent (Apr 15, 2012)

SuperPug said:


> I heard tongue is a super chewy muscle. It sounds like it'd be a great workout for dogs.



I don't think its too chewy, but it did grossed me out at first, at least the cow tongue did it rough on the top like a cats tongue


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## Rvent (Apr 15, 2012)

magicre said:


> i've not been able to find pork tongue, but i do love lamb tongues for the pug......and the corgi mix. i would imagine the collie would like them too, though beef tongue works well for the collie.
> 
> maybe should liz find pork tongues, she will kindly direct me toward them.
> 
> don't forget heads...even if you can't feed the actual head, the cheeks are awesome, as are the brains...and the eyes.


I have found pork tongue, hearts and brain through TQDF


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## kathylcsw (Jul 31, 2011)

I got really lucky and had a lady give me several lbs of grass fed/finished beef tongues. I also got about 5lbs of pork tongue from Va Tech for $1 a lb because someone put them in a freezer and forgot them. They just have a bit of an ick factor when I cut them. The dogs seem to like them though.


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## Herzo (Feb 5, 2011)

Riveroaks said:


> It nice to see moderators that actually ban members that are argumentative and add no value to the forum.
> 
> Hopefully he's been banned from the entire site and not just this post.
> 
> Either way THANKS!


I do believe that is it for our friend monster as he had a 10 day one a while back and number 2 is for good. That anyway is my understanding of it.

Thanks Meg I like when it is done and told in the post that was the last straw as most of the time I never know what has happened and I go back to try and see where it went wrong and can't find anything.

I still have to have my hubby cut up the tongue as I have a giant ick factor buy it. But I have only had beef tongue I have never fed pork tongue I should try and get some. And brains I can't even think about it  and eye's oh no way eeeeeeeeeeeeeek


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

Herzo said:


> I do believe that is it for our friend monster as he had a 10 day one a while back and number 2 is for good. That anyway is my understanding of it.
> 
> Thanks Meg I like when it is done and told in the post that was the last straw as most of the time I never know what has happened and I go back to try and see where it went wrong and can't find anything.
> 
> I still have to have my hubby cut up the tongue as I have a giant ick factor buy it. But I have only had beef tongue I have never fed pork tongue I should try and get some. And brains I can't even think about it  and eye's oh no way eeeeeeeeeeeeeek


It was a permanent ban, which as far as I know/as I understand it, can only ban that user name from the site. I think he can come back and create a new name though...


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## Herzo (Feb 5, 2011)

meggels said:


> It was a permanent ban, which as far as I know/as I understand it, can only ban that user name from the site. I think he can come back and create a new name though...


Well if that is the case and history is any indication our friend will indeed be back as he has so many times before. Now that might be a good thread............... how many names can we name that he has been hahahhhhahahah  See you soon MD


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## pogo (Aug 28, 2011)

DaViking said:


> Try pork tongue, excellent spread of amino acids and "jet fuel" for active dogs. Hog farmers, natural or traditional, can often get return cuts and I am sure some are willing to make a buck or two.


pork tongue is good stuff! we get it by the box full :thumb:


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## Dobelover (Mar 14, 2013)

Thanks for the suggestions everyone! Will definitely give tongue a try one day! We just bought a whole pork shoulder...cut it up for many meals


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## SuperPug (Mar 5, 2013)

I think the one thing I enjoy about selecting what meat to eat, is seeing all the different types right in front of me. I'm so happy I found that meat market. IT'S SO AWESOME!!!! I think, I'd honestly enjoy cutting up the boneless meats, weighting and bagging for meals. With a smaller dog, her bone-in meals would just be a drumstick, neck or thighs. When we get our larger dog(likely a lab, doberman, pit or rottie mix) he'll do the cutting for me 

I'll be doing some shopping in the meat market this weekend or Monday, I can't wait!!!! Who knew shopping for meat would be so much fun!


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## doggiedad (Jan 23, 2011)

do mean what cuts are best or do you mean what meat is best?
cuts: fillet, rib eye, strip, chop, t-bone, loin, center cut, end, etc.
meat: most of it especially if it's trimmed.



Dobelover said:


> What cuts of meat do you think is best? (besides organ meat)


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## wolfsnaps88 (Jan 2, 2012)

For the purposes of raw feeding a dog, you don't need it trimmed. Fat is an important part of the diet, as is connective tissue, tendons, etc.


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## Dobelover (Mar 14, 2013)

doggiedad said:


> do mean what cuts are best or do you mean what meat is best?
> cuts: fillet, rib eye, strip, chop, t-bone, loin, center cut, end, etc.
> meat: most of it especially if it's trimmed.


Yes, I want what cuts are best..we were doing a bulk buy and were curious to see what others think are the best cuts to get. I appreciate all the replies!


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