# Bad Urinalysis for Windy the Cat :( LONG...



## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

I'd really appreciate your opinions and any advice you can give me for Windy the cat. I'm trying so hard to keep level headed and compile my research before panicking, but the more I read, the more I'm starting to stress.

Last Wednesday we went in to the vets for her yearly check up, I got a full blood panel, fecal and urinalysis done on her, and then she had her teeth cleaned the following day.
She has lost about 12-14oz in weight, so she is on the skinny side. I knew she had lost a bit, but I put it down to travelling, she will not eat or drink during the day (she's a grazer) when we on the move. She normally makes up for it at night though, so I wasn't unduly worried. We had also been exercising a lot, more than normal too.


These are the results of her tests:
Urinalysis







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Blood








The blood work wasn't too bad, our vet wasn't concerned with anything really, the platelet count he said was not accurate. He said the high RBC could have been inflammed gums.

However, we have problems with her urinalysis.

We are doing a follow up test in two weeks (week after next).

So, it looks like she has:
Blood in her urine (although this could have been caused by having a cystocentesis, but I'm having doubts about that).
Struvite crystals (I have no idea if 2-3 is a high number or not), 
Excess protein in her urine (although I have read that this reading is unrealiable if there is blood in the urine), 
High PH, 
High specific gravity (which doesn't worry me too much, she hadn't peed that am when I took her in)
High level of Oval Fat Bodies (help - everything I read about this is freaking me out)
RBC - has to be from fighting a bladder infection.
Neutrophils - fighting infection too?

So, basically, I have to get more water in her. Very hard with a cat that will not touch raw or canned. I've tried baby food, every canned food from the worst of the worst to the absolute best roasted Wyoming Rabbit.
She will drink chicken blood, so all the neighbours are collecting blood and freezing it for me. Tonight I got her to drink tuna juice in water, but I read fish is not good for struvite crystals. I have water fountain too. I give her topped up glasses of water, as she will drink out of them now and then. 

She eats Orijen and Fromm. Is there another food that is better, lower in magnesium or phosphorous? 

She's on antibiotics, twice daily for another 3 days. (originally for her teeth cleaning, but doing double duty now).

Her teeth were fine, no extractions, a tiny amount of gingivitis and tartar, but nothing bad at all.

Unfortunately, I can see exactly what's going to happen right now, the vet is going to do his best to guilt me into buying RC or SD.  

So, I absolutely have to force her somehow, to eat canned or raw. Have to.


And, if nothing else, I hope this is an excellent example in the importance of having pro-active blood panels and urinalysis's done. 
Windy was displaying absolutely no symptoms at all (that I've noticed, and I'm pretty tuned in with her), so I am so hoping we've picked this up early enough to nip it in the bud.


Please, any advice, suggestions, wisdom, abuse because I'm hopefully just a stupid worrying bloody idiot, anything at all, I'd appreciate it so much.


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

I don't know what to tell you but I hope it isn't as bad as your making it out to be...One thing that I have always done with my 17 yr old cat who has been on kibble and canned from day one is add water to the canned to make sure she gets lots of moisture, have you added water to her dry food? Good Luck and I'll be thinking positive thoughts for Windy!


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## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

Thanks Robin. Yeah, I've added water to the kibble, and no go. I hope like hell I'm over worrying, sometimes I have to lay off the learning wagon. You know what it's like, I read something about major psychiatric problems and I could swear I've got practically every single symptom.


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## IslandPaws4Raw (Sep 7, 2011)

I wish I had some advice for you. It's been so long since I've had kitties of my own. Isn't it odd though how cats, being obligate carnivores, are the hardest to transition to a species appropriate diet? 

Try not to worry too much yet. We're thinking about you


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## brandypup (Jan 23, 2012)

What kind of canned have you tried? 
I never had a cat switch over to a good canned food from a kibble. I have always used firskies and the lesser quality food. (fancy feast ect) I alsways use pate varieites. iif she likes fish juice you can try that as well. 

My cats seemed to have situations like this when eating orijen. Even though it's a good food it's still a kibble. My vet had me switchoff orijen to friskies canned and the differance was amazing. I then went to raw again with out issues. 

Good luck. Maybe youcan send that lab rresult to the Lisa DVM on the cat site. She did answer me once when Bones had crystals. thankfully my vets were not concerned about it since she was going through vas.


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## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

I must confess that things seem to be at their worst late at night, sucks a big one, hate it when you can't sleep.
And yeah, I've tried the canned Friskies, all types of it. She's a kibble warrior.
That website, catinfo.org is great, its very informative about all sorts of things cat related. One thing it says is to not get too hard on sick cats, trying to (slightly) tough-love them onto canned or raw, so I'll save that till Windy's perkier.
And, you know, I only got her urinalysis results on Friday afternoon, never got to speak to the vet as he was in surgery, so I'm running on ignorance at the moment. I'll call him tomorrow - if nothing else I've got my questions nutted out.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

the blood in her urine is most probably from the testing equipment. both of my dogs get blood in their urine from the testing equipment and they have no other issues.

if you have to get more water in her, can you use a dropper and get some water in her that way, since she's being a cat. ?

i am looking at her blood work and i see a little infection going on.....the neutrophils and the lymphocytes, whilst not out of this world, are high enough to indicate that she might have a little, note the word little inflammatory or infectious process...




> Struvite
> Struvite crystals (magnesium ammonium phosphate, triple phosphate) usually appear as colorless, 3-dimensional, prism-like crystals ("coffin lids"). Occasionally, they instead resemble (vaguely) an old-fashioned double-edged razor blade (lower frame).
> 
> Struvite crystals are the most common type in urine from dogs and cats. They are often seen in urine from clinically normal individuals. Though they can be found in urine of any pH, their formation is favored in neutral to alkaline urine.
> ...


i think she needs water. and maybe a different cat food.

i think you can come off the ledge. but natalie would probably know better...or liz.


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## Celt (Dec 27, 2010)

I haven't had a cat in years, and at the time thought that Friskies and Fancy Feast were great foods, but have you tried blending the canned food with the chicken blood? Maybe a 3 parts chicken blood to 1 part canned? Then slowly decreasing the blood?


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## werecatrising (Oct 15, 2010)

I don't see anything in the blood or urine that would cause me to panic. it looks like she could possibly have a bit of a urinary tract infection.
Have you tried any of the cat fountains? I know my cats started drinking way more when I got those.
eta: just looked again and saw that they did not see any bacteria in the urine. Does she every show any signs of urinary problems? Maybe she just has a cystitis/inflammation.


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## Savage Destiny (Mar 16, 2011)

I'm not sure about Fromm, but I know that Orijen has a pretty much perfect calciumhosphorus ratio. Struvite crystals mean that the pH is high though.

Have you thought about cooking for her? Would she eat a cooked diet? I cook for my Persian who is prone to UTIs, and she does great. She's indifferent to canned food and refuses raw, but she gobbles up her home cooked like nobody's business. I just use a recipe for a regular adult cat diet I got from my (holistic) vet, but the book he showed me had customized diets for all sorts of issues, including urinary tract stuff. 

Wysong also makes a pH- supplement that you can add to what she's eating in order to bring her pH down.


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## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

Thanks you guys, seriously, thank you. I appreciate your thoughts. 
Yes, I have a water fountain, I'm also looking at another, one that sprinkles water so it has that splashing sound that might entice her more than the one I've got where water just flows down a slight hill. 
And, yes, I've tried home cooked. I've always given her a little bit of whatever we are eating, to no avail. But, maybe I'll buy a book on it, I'm open to trying anything to get her off the kibble. If she doesn't eat it, Mollie always scores, so it doesn't go to waste.
But, yes, it ocurred to me today as well to try adding a touch of canned meat to her chicken blood, maybe with perseverance, over time she'll come around to the taste. I'm pureeing cornish hen flesh and adding a lot of water to it, she had a touch of that tonight. 
When I read about protein in the urine, it's saying that it can be a sign of chronic kidney disease, but her other values are not suggesting that. But then I see the, what I think is very high Oval Fat Bodies, which can indicate chronic renal failure. So, I just give up, I'm not going to read any more, I'll having her dying by the night's end!
Instead of just going around in circles, will talk to the vet tomorrow and hopefully a new urinalysis week after next will make things a bit clearer.
Thank you for that info on the Wysong ph- supplement Savage Destiny. That's great.
I've never had a sick animal before, did I mention that? 
And, yes, I've come back down off the ledge re, it was a bit windy up there!


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## Herzo (Feb 5, 2011)

Pennie, I don't have anything to add just want you to know I'm thinking of you and Windy. I'm sending thoughts and prayers to you both. It's a shame cats can be so tough to deal with as far as raw is concerned.


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## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

Vet just called and he said he's not worried at all about Windy. 
Said that he's pretty sure they hit a blood vessel whilst using the needle to draw urine out of her bladder and that has thrown all her values off.
God, I wish the vet tech had said something about that to me last Friday instead of letting me stew all weekend.
Wish I could change the title to "not so bad........"

Thanks you guys, I feel quite embarrassed now, I'm as hard as nails, logical as hell when it comes to the other halfs many problems, but it's a totally different story when it comes to my Mollie and Windy.
(I'm in the elevator coming down off the roof now re! )


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## Janet At Nutro (Mar 11, 2011)

I was hoping that there had been some kind of error.
You and Windy have been on my mind, and I am so glad that she is alright.
Thank you for the update.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Sounds like he definitely hit a blood vessel when getting a sample, but that she could have a little bit of an infection. Either way you're on the right track and she will be back to normal, healthy self in no time. Stress can trigger things like this in cats all the time, and with all the stress lately I'm not surprised unfortunately. I also think that once your life settles back down, she will get more moisture in her diet just because she will feel better mentally/physically due to decreased stress. 

How often do you completely change the water and rinse out your fountain for her? I've noticed that if you don't change the water out and scrub it out every other day that cats lose interest. The whole purpose of the fountain is to act like a constant supply of "fresh" water. But if you go several days between changing the water out its not much better than a stale bowl of water.


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## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

Thanks Janet, sorry, I feel like a drama queen now, but I was truly so worried all weekend. Trust it to be a long weekend too! 

And, thanks too Natalie. I clean the bowl every 3-4 days as it's a really large one and I put filtered water from the fridge in it, plus top it up during the day. But, you are right, I'll do it every second day now, it has crossed my mind before that its just the same water going round and round, it must deteriorate to some degree.

Question though, when we go back for another urinalysis, do you think I should use LabLitter or is it still preferable to do the cystocentesis?


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## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

Oh I know ALL about fussy cats.. ugh. What I did was make a chicken broth (froze most of it) since he was ok with that.. do you know if she will drink it? I mixed it with tuna juice and slowly reduced the amount of tuna, then started adding a tiny bit of canned food at a time to just the broth.


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## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

thanks Caty, Yep, you've described exactly my plan. I'm figuring it will probably take 6 months.
Going out today for cans of cat food, tuna, cornish hens, and ice cube trays. 
Anyone ever blended a mouse? (those frozen feeder ones). I feel sick now.


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## IslandPaws4Raw (Sep 7, 2011)

Yeah! good news! C'mon Windy, give your Mum an easy time with the transition!


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## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

NEver blended one LOL, but one of my cats likes thawed mice. The other one pulls his lips back in a disgusted face like I just made him smell a dead rodent. Which I did.


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## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

LOL. A couple of months ago I got all excited because Windy actually ate a feeder mouse. I was dancing around, (seriously) thinking all my problems were solved, mentally figuring out the cost of feeding her 2-3 mice a day. Then 2 minutes later, she puked dead mouse up on my counter. Has refused to touch one since.
Frickin cats.


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## Janet At Nutro (Mar 11, 2011)

MollyWoppy said:


> Thanks Janet, sorry, I feel like a drama queen now, but I was truly so worried all weekend. Trust it to be a long weekend too!
> 
> And, thanks too Natalie. I clean the bowl every 3-4 days as it's a really large one and I put filtered water from the fridge in it, plus top it up during the day. But, you are right, I'll do it every second day now, it has crossed my mind before that its just the same water going round and round, it must deteriorate to some degree.
> 
> Question though, when we go back for another urinalysis, do you think I should use LabLitter or is it still preferable to do the cystocentesis?


Pennie you are not a drama queen. You love Windy and you were very concerned, and maybe a little scared too.
I have cats too, so I do understand how you feel. Windy is very lucky to have you to take such good care of her!


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

I wouldn't have been any help but I am so sorry I missed this! And I am glad it turned out that hopefully this is not something awful.

Of course you were freaked out. Anyone would have been. She is your baby 

They shouldn't make you pay for that test. If the values are all skewed because they screwed up, they should give you your money back. To me, that's just incompetent to put her through that for nothing, and cause you mental anguish for several days.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

MollyWoppy said:


> Vet just called and he said he's not worried at all about Windy.
> Said that he's pretty sure they hit a blood vessel whilst using the needle to draw urine out of her bladder and that has thrown all her values off.
> God, I wish the vet tech had said something about that to me last Friday instead of letting me stew all weekend.
> Wish I could change the title to "not so bad........"
> ...


do not feel embarrassed. when bubba had his UA done, the same thing happened....apparently dogs are not as cooperative as humans are when getting a tube shoved up their you know. 

bleeding is not abnormal under the circumstances of getting a sterile UA.

i'm just glad it was that and not a 'something'.


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## bullyBug (May 31, 2012)

I wouldn't dismiss it completely and would have the test repeated. Possibly have it collected with a catheter placed or free catch. Trace amounts of protein in urine might be harmless, or it could mean something is amiss.

IMUO, a lot of the grain free dry foods are just too high in protein to be fed *on their own, for life*. Yes, carnivores should be fed a diet that is high in meat content (and therefore high in protein), but not in the super concentrated form that it's delivered in by kibble. If you compare the protein content in meat to the protein content in most grain free dry foods on a dry matter basis, the difference is staggering. I believe these foods should be fed with a substantial amount of canned or fresh foods added. Also, a food can have the perfect cal to phos ratio and still be high in both, as most of the grain frees are.

It sounds like you have an especially reluctant kitty. Have you tried cooked meats? Maybe giving her a tiny side of cooked or raw meat at each meal will help her eventually accept that it is food. If it's just not possible to supplement with moisture rich foods I would recommend a dry food with a more moderate level of protein.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

bullyBug said:


> I wouldn't dismiss it completely and would have the test repeated. Possibly have it collected with a catheter placed or free catch. Trace amounts of protein in urine might be harmless, or it could mean something is amiss.
> 
> IMUO, a lot of the grain free dry foods are just too high in protein to be fed *on their own, for life*. Yes, carnivores should be fed a diet that is high in meat content (and therefore high in protein), but not in the super concentrated form that it's delivered in by kibble. If you compare the protein content in meat to the protein content in most grain free dry foods on a dry matter basis, the difference is staggering. I believe these foods should be fed with a substantial amount of canned or fresh foods added. Also, a food can have the perfect cal to phos ratio and still be high in both, as most of the grain frees are.
> 
> It sounds like you have an especially reluctant kitty. Have you tried cooked meats? Maybe giving her a tiny side of cooked or raw meat at each meal will help her eventually accept that it is food. If it's just not possible to supplement with moisture rich foods I would recommend a dry food with a more moderate level of protein.


I have wondered about that. When I look up raw meat it normally runs somewhere around 20 percent. Some of the dog food I see is close to 40%.

And then when you look at "low protein" dog foods they are closer to raw meat.

I just figured it's because the protein doesn't get absorbed very well.


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## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

Yeah, I did read somewhere that protein in the urine can be caused by the food, so it's definitely in the back of my mind there. 
We are having another urinalysis done next Wednesday, so I will wait till those results are in and take it from there, I think. It's so confusing all these dried protein levels in kibble vs canned/raw. I really like the ingredients in Orijen and thought that was the best dried food I could find for her. If there is protein in the new test, that is what our vet is going to blame, her food, I can tell you that right now! 
Windy simply will not eat anything canned/cooked/raw.
I've managed to increase her liquid intake, just by shoving diluted tuna juice, fresh cold filtered water or diluted cornish hen blood under her nose a hundred times a day. 
And, I'm definitely going to try to get a sample by using the litterbox stuff, but will free catch if I possibly can. 
Once we get the test results back and I confirm she's put on a bit of weight, we'll be making a huge effort to transition over to some food with water in it. 
So, it probably won't matter in the end anyway, because I'm sure I'm going to end up strangling her, before much longer.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Did you get the urinalysis done? How did it turn out??


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## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

We went this morning (had my days mixed up). 
Blood in her urine again. Had to have the needle draw again as she didn't pee in her special cat litter last night. Vet reckons it's very unlikely that they would hit a blood vessel twice in 2 draws.
No bacteria though.
Had a ultra sound done, which didn't pick anything up because her bladder was not extended enough. He said she has a very small bladder.
So we go back tomorrow morning for another ultra sound. 
I did ask to do another blood test, but he said it doesn't think it's necessary right now.

So, I think I now need to find a new kibble, to see if that makes any different. This is just for the meantime till she consents to eating canned/raw. She is currently on Orijen and some Fromm and I know if the vet can't find any other answers, he's going to blame the food. 
I gather she needs one with a low PH, so if anyone has any recommendations, please let us know.

Question though and I'm sure I know the answer, but I just want to make sure:
If I'm giving her chicken blood in filtered water, to tempt her to drink more, and she drank a lot of it last night, that blood wouldn't be showing up in her urine. Would it?


And thanks for asking xellil, you are a sweetheart. <3


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

i don't think things we swallow turn up in urine, unfortunately. 

I'm sorry it didn't turn out better, but maybe it didn't turn out horrible either. I wish I could recommend a good dry food but from what I hear no dry food is really good.

You need to sit down with Windy and have a careful explanation to her of how she needs to eat something besides dry food. Maybe she won't be a stubborn cat and will pay attention!


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## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

xellil said:


> i don't think things we swallow turn up in urine, unfortunately.


Yeah, I know, I know. I'm grabbing at straws! I daren't mention I do this to the vet, he'll start going on about salmonella......as my husband's ex (who's had cats all her life), did to me the other night, a big spiel on how I'm killing Windy.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

MollyWoppy said:


> We went this morning (had my days mixed up).
> Blood in her urine again. Had to have the needle draw again as she didn't pee in her special cat litter last night. Vet reckons it's very unlikely that they would hit a blood vessel twice in 2 draws.
> No bacteria though.
> Had a ultra sound done, which didn't pick anything up because her bladder was not extended enough. He said she has a very small bladder.
> ...


if the vet cannot find anything, does that mean, other than a small bladder, nothing is wrong?

ua done with instruments will break little capillaries...not gigunda blood vessels...was there scads of blood? or just a little?

what we eat is excreted by the kidneys or the liver....but if the food is a balanced one, how can that be the culprit?


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

Did you try the cheap fancy feast canned cat food? I feed my old kitty a good dry kibble Evo and supplement with canned. I mix it up with all the grain free versions plus the good ol' cheap fancy feast which she loves the best but do add in water to all the canned for the moisture content. Good Luck!


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## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

Thats what I'm wondering re. He said there was a lot of blood, more than what would be caused by the needle. Not that I can see any tinge of colour when she pee's. 
I'm reading stuff that says what they are fed can sometimes cause blood. And stress. She's stressed at the vets.
I am trying to get my head around it all and eliminating possible causes one by one.
We will see tomorrow if she has crystals in her bladder, that will be a start.

Thanks for your help.


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## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

whiteleo said:


> Did you try the cheap fancy feast canned cat food?


Yeah Robin, sure did. Gritted my teeth and bought every flavour available. 
Mollie did not get the left overs.


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## Little Brown Jug (Dec 7, 2010)

She won't eat canned at all? I was always told its not the ph that needs to be worried about its moisture with cats. I never had the issue with either of my former cats. One ate 95% canned (only had dry if I wouldn't be home) and the other we tried premade raw and he wouldn't go for it tried a few types of canned and finally found the jackpot with Before Grain 95% canned. Hope you figure something out.

A friend's cat wouldn't eat dry and had a constant issue with crystals and bladder problems in general. She switched her to Wellness Core dry and hasn't had an issue since.


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## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

Thanks LBJ, I'll look into Wellness Core, appreciate that info.
And no, she will not eat any type of canned food at all. I've tried putting less than 1/8 tsp in a saucer of cornish hen blood and water, (which she normally adores), and she refused to touch it with the canned in there. Ended up chucking it out. Cats are really weird creatures.


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## Janet At Nutro (Mar 11, 2011)

MollyWoppy said:


> Thats what I'm wondering re. He said there was a lot of blood, more than what would be caused by the needle. Not that I can see any tinge of colour when she pee's.
> I'm reading stuff that says what they are fed can sometimes cause blood. And stress. She's stressed at the vets.
> I am trying to get my head around it all and eliminating possible causes one by one.
> We will see tomorrow if she has crystals in her bladder, that will be a start.
> ...


Oh no. I thought that Windy was out of the woods.


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## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

Thats what I was hoping too Janet. I was totally gutted. 
I'll let you know how the ultrasound goes tomorrow.

Oh yeah, re, I didn't read your post properly. The bladder wasn't inflated enough for him to see if there were any crystals or tumours in there. Hence we're redoing it again in the morning.


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## Chocx2 (Nov 16, 2009)

I'll be watching your post MollyWoppy, hope she is ok. My friend had a cat that wasn't eating vet said she might have contracted some type of virus that is going around, blood in urine. She had to give him an appetite stimulant for several weeks and weened him off, and he finally is out of the woods.


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## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

Thanks Chox. So glad to hear your friends cat is now ok. I'm suprised at how delicate cats seem to be healthwise, how on earth they survive as feral cats I'll never know. Windy's got a healthy appetite though. They are going to weigh her today, so I hope she's put on a bit of weight as she's was a bit skinny.


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## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

Relief. Had another ultrasound done and they couldn't see anything out of the normal, no kidney stones, no masses, all the organs look normal except for a tiny amount of debris in the bladder. 
So, the next step is to use the lablitter on Monday and take in a sample to test for blood, just incase the second cystocentesis also hit a blood vessel. He said he's never had that happen to him before. 
He also said he's a bit mystified right now as to what the problem could be. 
I was quite surprised, 2 ultrasounds and a needle drawn urinalysis for $56.00, thought that was really quite reasonable.


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## IslandPaws4Raw (Sep 7, 2011)

Excellent news! Here's hoping she'll use the lab litter this time........and hoping the results will be good there too.


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## KittyKat (Feb 11, 2011)

Try leaving out a mug of water. My cat loves to drink out of a mug. Maybe its the height I am not sure. I leave it on a table she can jump on and she's there a few times a day.


Also, have you tried offering sardines? Even my finicky cat goes for it.


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