# dander, Dander, DANDER!



## brindle (Mar 14, 2013)

Why the heck isn't this dander going away? It's not accompanied by itching or biting. Just dandruffy! Her coat is amazing- soft and shiny. She doesn't stink...
How long does it take for fish oils to work? 
I've been brushing her with a rubber brush to disperse the natural oils through her coat, and still not helping. 
What foods would you suggest? I'm going crazy :wacko:


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## Georgiapeach (Jan 24, 2011)

You might want to also give your dog a vitamin E capsule daily, along with the fish oil. I've read that fish oil needs vitamin E to work effectively. I've started doing that with my boxer, Dempsey, and it seems to be helping. What type of kibble are you feeding? Certain kibbles cause Dempsey to get dandruff, too. Maybe the fatty acids in it aren't enough or something.


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## Losech (Jul 10, 2012)

Fish oil, vitamin E, and raw eggs help with my dog's danger. There is considerably more when they don't get that stuff than when they do.


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

My dogs always tend to get dander when winter is over.


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## riddick4811 (Nov 2, 2011)

Vinegar and water rinse will help get rid of dandruff. Also Listerine (mouthwash) mixed with water will work. I had one dog, a Doberman that got dandruff when the weather changed didn't matter his diet. It went away after about 2 weeks.


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## brindle (Mar 14, 2013)

Georgiapeach said:


> You might want to also give your dog a vitamin E capsule daily, along with the fish oil. I've read that fish oil needs vitamin E to work effectively. I've started doing that with my boxer, Dempsey, and it seems to be helping. What type of kibble are you feeding? Certain kibbles cause Dempsey to get dandruff, too. Maybe the fatty acids in it aren't enough or something.


You're right... the capsules I give her also have vit e. although I don't know how much... I'll take a look and get back to you. Do you know how much?


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## brindle (Mar 14, 2013)

Losech said:


> Fish oil, vitamin E, and raw eggs help with my dog's danger. There is considerably more when they don't get that stuff than when they do.


I do give her organic/farm raised eggs once in a while. How often do you give them?
Sprocket-- all of your dogs get dander when winter is over?
Riddick-- I have never heard of the listerine idea! Might be worth a try!


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## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

Coconut oil. Organic, extra virgin. Try it, I've personally seen 6 dogs where it has made a big difference to their coats. Don't know why and I don't care why, but it seems to work with Florida dogs.


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## brindle (Mar 14, 2013)

MollyWoppy said:


> Coconut oil. Organic, extra virgin. Try it, I've personally seen 6 dogs where it has made a big difference to their coats. Don't know why and I don't care why, but it seems to work with Florida dogs.


I have tried it but my dog DESPISES it. I got some from Costco, it is organic and extra virgin but she hates it lol


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## Dobelover (Mar 14, 2013)

I would try coconut oil. Our guy gets that and his coat is amazing (he also gets fish oils). You might want to take a break from the brushing too...sometimes it can make it worse. Just give the oils time to work. Coconut oil...great stuff


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

All of my dogs skin dries out when spring comes around. Happens every single year.

Their coats are all silky soft still but they get a little extra dander around this time. No big deal


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## Dobelover (Mar 14, 2013)

Can you mix the coconut oil in something she likes? Would be good if you could..it is amazing stuff. We make veggie cubes for our guy and it's mixed in there with all the other "goodies". I've heard eggs are good to give about twice week. Can they be given more often?


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## SuperPug (Mar 5, 2013)

My cat gets dander every winter. Coconut oil and fish oil helps her greatly. I apply either one directly on her coat.


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## Tobi (Mar 18, 2011)

Sad I am going over this thread going... Wow I'm going to take some coconut oil! Lol I has dandruff... Tobi doesn't though ugh, I'm not putting his fish oil in my hair! :wacko:


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## Losech (Jul 10, 2012)

I usually give one egg per dog each day, but I've found that 3-4 per week is good enough to keep the dander away.


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## brindle (Mar 14, 2013)

Dobelover said:


> Can you mix the coconut oil in something she likes? Would be good if you could..it is amazing stuff. We make veggie cubes for our guy and it's mixed in there with all the other "goodies". I've heard eggs are good to give about twice week. Can they be given more often?


I was thinking maybe with her tripe. I may be able to hide it... I'll try it and see.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

Tobi said:


> Sad I am going over this thread going... Wow I'm going to take some coconut oil! Lol I has dandruff... Tobi doesn't though ugh, I'm not putting his fish oil in my hair! :wacko:


for you, argan oil


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## InkedMarie (Sep 9, 2011)

magicre said:


> for you, argan oil


Be careful how much Arran oil you use.
Yes, I'm speaking from experience


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

InkedMarie said:


> Be careful how much Arran oil you use.
> Yes, I'm speaking from experience


did you drink it?  you can, you know


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

I would suggest you take the dog to the vet since you seem very concerned about it and none of us are vets and we have never seen your dog so it would be irresponsible to give you treatment options. I hope everything turn out O.K. 

Liz


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## NewfieAussie (Feb 19, 2013)

There is a big difference in giving advice regarding ruling out bowel obstruction or ischemic bowel versus dander.


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

Excess dander can be a complicated issue and can be caused by more serious deficiencies in diet, it could be a skin or gland problem that needs to be taken care of. Canine Seborrheic Dermatitis can be very serious when left untreated. Examples of skin diseases in which dandruff may be a symptom include cheyletiellosis (a contagious canine disease caused by an infestation of cheyletiella mites), demodectic mange, eczema, scalp psoriasis, ringworm, and yeast infections.

I think all of these are potentially just as serious as tummy trouble and equally difficult for non vets to diagnose. 

Liz


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## NewfieAussie (Feb 19, 2013)

Bowel obstruction, ischemic bowel, perforated bowel are life threatening. Sepis and death can occur rapidly during one of these acute diagnoses. To call it Tummy Trouble is what can lead to getting treatment too late.

Never seen a case of acute, life threatening dermatitis, mites, mange, eczema, psoriaisis, fungus or yeast. Never been involved in a code for these ailments but have been involved in plenty of codes resulting in deaths or near deaths from ignoring symptoms from a bowel obstruction, ischemic bowel or perforated bowel. These are medical emergencies where delay in treatment can lead to death very rapidly and the best advice is get to a vet ASAP.

A case of dander can be dealt with in an office visit in a few days or next week or try some oils and then go to vet if that doesn't work. OK to spend a few days discussing on a forum in my opinion. Never seen a dog code from dermatitis.


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

An opinion was asked and I gave mine as others gave theirs. If there is a list somewhere of what ailments we can give opinion on treating and one where we must refer to a vet I would appreciate it. I do the majority of treatments for my dogs naturally at home so I am not up on what is vet worthy and what is not. I hesitated to give other suggestions because I don't have scientific data or evidence proving their efficacy. I am sure the OP will be wise and decide on the course of action she feels is appropriate considering all the other opinions and suggestions given.


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## FBarnes (Feb 17, 2013)

NewfieAussie said:


> Bowel obstruction, ischemic bowel, perforated bowel are life threatening. Sepis and death can occur rapidly during one of these acute diagnoses. To call it Tummy Trouble is what can lead to getting treatment too late.
> 
> Never seen a case of acute, life threatening dermatitis, mites, mange, eczema, psoriaisis, fungus or yeast. Never been involved in a code for these ailments but have been involved in plenty of codes resulting in deaths or near deaths from ignoring symptoms from a bowel obstruction, ischemic bowel or perforated bowel. These are medical emergencies where delay in treatment can lead to death very rapidly and the best advice is get to a vet ASAP.
> 
> A case of dander can be dealt with in an office visit in a few days or next week or try some oils and then go to vet if that doesn't work. OK to spend a few days discussing on a forum in my opinion. Never seen a dog code from dermatitis.


I dunno. It could be Ebola mange. Flesh eating mange. Maybe it's not dandruff at all, but scabies.


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## NewfieAussie (Feb 19, 2013)

Ha Ha! Wouldn't wish a case of Necrotizing Fasciitis on anyone. But it's not mange, but an MRSA bacterial infection. In that case absolutely don't chat about it on the internet but get to a Dr so they can whittle away on the tissue and get ahead of the spreading necrotic tissue. Anyway, I love Collies Liz, someday I'll pm you and tell you about mine, you probably are familiar with their bloodline. And FBarnes, I liked the Ebola comment lol! Adios : )


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## InkedMarie (Sep 9, 2011)

magicre said:


> did you drink it?  you can, you know


No, just a bit too much in my hir


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## brindle (Mar 14, 2013)

Liz said:


> I would suggest you take the dog to the vet since you seem very concerned about it and none of us are vets and we have never seen your dog so it would be irresponsible to give you treatment options. I hope everything turn out O.K.
> 
> Liz


I actually stated in a different thread that I had an appointment for the vet for her access dander. Thank you for your flip sarcasm. Way to show maturity


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## brindle (Mar 14, 2013)

FBarnes said:


> I dunno. It could be Ebola mange. Flesh eating mange. Maybe it's not dandruff at all, but scabies.


Scabies would result in hair loss. She has amazing fur.


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## brindle (Mar 14, 2013)

Liz said:


> An opinion was asked and I gave mine as others gave theirs. If there is a list somewhere of what ailments we can give opinion on treating and one where we must refer to a vet I would appreciate it. I do the majority of treatments for my dogs naturally at home so I am not up on what is vet worthy and what is not. I hesitated to give other suggestions because I don't have scientific data or evidence proving their efficacy. I am sure the OP will be wise and decide on the course of action she feels is appropriate considering all the other opinions and suggestions given.


You didn't state your opinion. You were sarcastic...


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## brindle (Mar 14, 2013)

NewfieAussie said:


> Ha Ha! Wouldn't wish a case of Necrotizing Fasciitis on anyone. But it's not mange, but an MRSA bacterial infection. In that case absolutely don't chat about it on the internet but get to a Dr so they can whittle away on the tissue and get ahead of the spreading necrotic tissue. Anyway, I love Collies Liz, someday I'll pm you and tell you about mine, you probably are familiar with their bloodline. And FBarnes, I liked the Ebola comment lol! Adios : )


Yes. Her skin is falling off as we speak LOL definitely necrotizing fasciitis!


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## FBarnes (Feb 17, 2013)

I don't get why you go onto the other thread and tell people they should give the advice to go to the vet, and then when you get advice to go to a vet it's a totally different story. Liz was only doing what you said people should because no one has SEEN your dog, no one here is a VET, no one knows a darn thing about what's really going on and after all telling you how to treat dander is giving medical advice, which you were clear everyone is thorouoghly unqualified to do. That's what you said about a little diarrhea. Why would a little dander be any different?


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## brindle (Mar 14, 2013)

FBarnes said:


> I don't get why you go onto the other thread and tell people they should give the advice to go to the vet, and then when you get advice to go to a vet it's a totally different story. Liz was only doing what you said people should because no one has SEEN your dog, no one here is a VET, no one knows a darn thing about what's really going on and after all telling you how to treat dander is giving medical advice, which you were clear everyone is thorouoghly unqualified to do. That's what you said about a little diarrhea. Why would a little dander be any different?


That what I said about a little *constipation*... a first time raw feeder and the dog is constipated. It could have signified a blockage. As Newfie said: that is a very serious/possibly deadly thing. 
I also stated very clearly that *I HAVE AN APPOINTMENT WITH HER VETERINARIAN*. Comprehend?


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## NewfieAussie (Feb 19, 2013)

Barnes, with all due respect there is a huge difference between dander and the OP complaint in the other thread about straining to poop and extremely runny brown poop ever hour. Talk about an electrolyte imbalance waiting to happen. I think Brindles advice was right on target, I would not mess around if there was a blockage, straining with just alittle liquid poop slipping by. Have you ever seen a bowel that was punctured by a bone with an abdominal cavity full of feces or dead bowel and ommentum? That is life threatening and needing surgery quickly before it's too late. A little dander would be totally different. If you showed up at an emergency animal clinic, the vet would triage and see the straining dog with liquid squirting out first, and if another showed up bleeding they would get in before the pooping one. The dandruff dog would wait a long time and maybe get told to see their regular vet during the week as it is not an emergency.


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## brindle (Mar 14, 2013)

NewfieAussie said:


> Barnes, with all due respect there is a huge difference between dander and the OP complaint in the other thread about straining to poop and extremely runny brown poop ever hour. Talk about an electrolyte imbalance waiting to happen. I think Brindles advice was right on target, I would not mess around if there was a blockage, straining with just alittle liquid poop slipping by. Have you ever seen a bowel that was punctured by a bone with an abdominal cavity full of feces or dead bowel and ommentum? That is life threatening and needing surgery quickly before it's too late. A little dander would be totally different. If you showed up at an emergency animal clinic, the vet would triage and see the straining dog with liquid squirting out first, and if another showed up bleeding they would get in before the pooping one. The dandruff dog would wait a long time and maybe get told to see their regular vet during the week as it is not an emergency.


Yes, yes and YES. 
I would not risk it with my dog so I gave the only advice I felt applicable to the situation. 
The thing about her dander is that it is not SEVERE (I looked up pictures), it just very noticeable and is irritating me that I can't effectively do anything about it. I'm sure they will sell me some overpriced bottle of shampoo and do a skin scraping to ease my mind but it works out perfectly as she needed an annual anyway! Still debating doing a rabies vaccine ... she is up for one.


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## FBarnes (Feb 17, 2013)

Are either of you aware that a blockage is accompanied by vomiting? It is a PRIMARY symptom accompanied by alot of other stuff. If I took my dog in every time he had a little straining I'd alot poorer. At the very least you should be aware of the major symptoms before trying to scare people. 

And glad you took Liz' advice brindle. Can't be too careful.


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## NewfieAussie (Feb 19, 2013)

Sure, vomiting is common if blockage is right after stomach or in upper part of GI tract. If blockage is further on down GI tract you get an expanding bowel that stretches, filling with s**t and can lead to a bowel that loses its blood supply leading to dead bowel, mesenteric infarct ect. A dead bowel from obtruction is a dark purple huge gut tube( kindof like megacolon) that smells like dead tissue and is about ten times bigger around that normal light pink bowel. But you are correct, vomiting is common when higher up GI tract. Anyway, I feel a case of Ebola virus coming on, maybe Ebola mange.....lol. Gotta go spend time with my family and dogs before this Ebola does me in!


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## FBarnes (Feb 17, 2013)

Vomiting is a symptom in both cases. The only difference is the vomit is part poop. There are actually 3-4 places for a blockage. Some result in vomiting right after eating and some immediately after eating. Some result in vomiting several hours after eating. Some result in projectile vomiting. Some result in vomiting feces. They all result in vomiting.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

well, one huge difference is that with a raw fed dog......the problem is usually easily identified either as overeating or too much of one thing or another or an intro too soon of a protein that is too rich.

dog's acids would have that bone impaction practically dissolved...and this is where experience is the mother of advice.

however, having said that, before we go from one thread of flesh eating disease to this one with a dead bowel.....let's try not to panic the OP's who are asking these questions and let's try to speak from an abundance of experience...

my bad. did not realise this was the dry food/canned section. my statement doesn't count.

i hope your dog feels better.


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## mewlittle (Mar 18, 2013)

what food do you feed her?

go for a no grain diet if she ain't already on it and have you tried brushing her with a different brush/comb that's not rubber?
and do you bath her? maybe she needs a bath


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## SuperPug (Mar 5, 2013)

Common misconception "baths help skin issues". Wrong. Baths actually strip the skin of it's natural oils. It's these oils that give the skin hydration , health, coat shine and keep from dandruff occuring(which is why I recommended coconut oil). I wouldn't bath any dog with a skin issue. Id rather grease him up with coconut or fish oil and brush the dog daily with a soft brush.


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## dr tim (Mar 27, 2011)

There are many shampoos that are designed to deal with specific skin issues be it staph infections, seborrhea of a dry or oily type, yeast dermatitis, etc. I often recommend bringing into the overall mix of treating skin problems a shampoo, but the right one. The shampoos that are appropriate for a correctly diagnosed skin problem will often account for replenishing or conditioning the skin. This is not to say that treatment from the inside out(oral meds, nutritional additions such as essential fatty acids, thyroid replacement) are not needed as they often are but do not discount what a properly used topical treatment can do to improve the situation.


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## SuperPug (Mar 5, 2013)

A properly use topical treatment means one that doesn't do harm. The whole act of bathing with shampoo strips the skin of it's natural oils. Why strip away what is healthy and needed?


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## doggiedad (Jan 23, 2011)

how does brushing make it worst?



Dobelover said:


> I would try coconut oil. Our guy gets that and his coat is amazing (he also gets fish oils). You might want to take a break from the brushing too...sometimes it can make it worse. Just give the oils time to work. Coconut oil...great stuff


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## doggiedad (Jan 23, 2011)

i would give my dog a bath usuing some natural, organic or medicated shampoo. if that didn't
work i would take my dog to the Vet.


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## brindle (Mar 14, 2013)

SuperPug said:


> A properly use topical treatment means one that doesn't do harm. The whole act of bathing with shampoo strips the skin of it's natural oils. Why strip away what is healthy and needed?


You're arguing with a vet dear. I'm afraid that's not going to go well...
I agree that oils are essential but a bath once in a while is natural and I did recently bathe her. 
I brush her to distribute the oils but the dander is interrupted and does come up worse then if I hadn't brushed her. 
The earliest I could get into my vet (it not being an emergency) is in 2 weeks. I will see what is going on at that time. 
What are other symptoms of hypothyroid? I really don't think this is the issue but it would be good to know.


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## SuperPug (Mar 5, 2013)

Yes because vets support the crappest food ever. You shouldn't believe everything a vet says.


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## Candyd (Apr 11, 2013)

The main hypothyroidism symptoms are weight gain, lethargy, hair loss, dry skin, brittle hair, constipation, mood disorders. Not all can be present, and there can be other symptoms too.


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## bett (Mar 15, 2012)

brindle said:


> You're arguing with a vet dear. I'm afraid that's not going to go well...
> I agree that oils are essential but a bath once in a while is natural and I did recently bathe her.
> I brush her to distribute the oils but the dander is interrupted and does come up worse then if I hadn't brushed her.
> The earliest I could get into my vet (it not being an emergency) is in 2 weeks. I will see what is going on at that time.
> What are other symptoms of hypothyroid? I really don't think this is the issue but it would be good to know.



forgive me, but what kind of dog do you have with the excess dander?

i find, with my labs, black especially, that a bath a year, is more than enough.
brushing, while not only helping to get rid of the excess shedding stuff, also does help distribute the oils in the skin and for a time, it does appear that there is more dander. i kind of think that is from stirring it up and loosening what is gonna come up anyway.

and honestly, i dont think superpug was arguing, merely not agreeing. but superpug can speak for him/herself.
and my vet and i often "discuss' stuff i dont always agree with. for example, he wanted rex, the liver issue dog, on hills ld food, while i wanted to finally homecook a liver support diet.
we talked, and compromised and now i am homecooking.
the next blood test, will tell if i go back to that crap.


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## Sheltielover25 (Jan 18, 2011)

SuperPug said:


> Yes because vets support the crappest food ever. You shouldn't believe everything a vet says.


Makes me think, I'm currently seeing a conventional vet for testing on my dog, and while she's super nice and hasn't pushed anything on me; she has a sign in her office that says Corn is not a filler, this is a myth LMAO Guess who made the ad? Science Diet. Now I know this is the kibble section so I'm solely disagreeing with an INGREDIENT. Not kibble in general so calm down if your panties are starting to get tighter....

So while I know she means well, anyone who truly believes something like that enough to post in their office, I wouldn't trust with my animal 100%. It makes you wonder how anyone can think genetically modified corn, which produces very large stools due to it being a filler, is best for a canine. She also was convinced Hadley had heart worms since she's never been on a "preventative" I asked her if she's even seen a dog, who is clearly well-taken care of, like Hadley have heart worms and she said "good point." LOL 

Fish oils don't really help unless you buy a super good quality one, you could be doing more harm feeding one from Walgreens or something, Check out the heavy metal study I posted. I know my skin is dry and coconut oil helps and I also use Emu oil -- Emu oil has been wonderful for my skin. I get free-range chemical-free emu oil for pretty cheap on swanson vitamins' website. I wouuld be very leery of any kind of chemical wash, I'd want to know every ingredient and every side-effect before I risked it. Dander is one thing, a side-effect of a chemical is usually much worse than dander.


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## Herzo (Feb 5, 2011)

SuperPug said:


> Yes because vets support the crappest food ever. You shouldn't believe everything a vet says.


Some vets support it some a better quality, I don't think they should all be lumped together. And maybe it's just brindlle your attacking but I think dr. Tim deserves a little respect so can you please be nice.


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## Dobelover (Mar 14, 2013)

doggiedad said:


> how does brushing make it worst?


I only suggest to try not brushing because I have seen the dandruff get worse by doing so. Think of it like a person with dandruff or extremely dry skin. The more you scrub the worse it gets (not always but often). I was just thinking since you were brushing and it wasn't getting better to try and do the opposite. Sometimes "doing nothing" is better 
Bathing does strip oils but it can also be extremely helpful. There are shampoos out there designed for more frequent bathing that won't strip the oils. Good luck!


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

Herzo said:


> Some vets support it some a better quality, I don't think they should all be lumped together. And maybe it's just brindlle your attacking but I think dr. Tim deserves a little respect so can you please be nice.


Yes, Dr. Tim is really an invaluable member of this community. Always willing to help...he deserves some respect and shouldn't just be lumped in with all vets out there...


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## bett (Mar 15, 2012)

meggels said:


> Yes, Dr. Tim is really an invaluable member of this community. Always willing to help...he deserves some respect and shouldn't just be lumped in with all vets out there...


i mean absolutely NO DISRESPECT , however, shouldnt every member be treated with some respect and not spoken to in an unbecoming manner?
just a thought.
and of course , dr tim is invaluable for the obvious.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

bett said:


> i mean absolutely NO DISRESPECT , however, shouldnt every member be treated with some respect and not spoken to in an unbecoming manner?
> just a thought.
> and of course , dr tim is invaluable for the obvious.


Of course they should. I figured that was a given.


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## brindle (Mar 14, 2013)

SuperPug said:


> Yes because vets support the crappest food ever. You shouldn't believe everything a vet says.


What a sweeping generalization


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## brindle (Mar 14, 2013)

Candyd said:


> The main hypothyroidism symptoms are weight gain, lethargy, hair loss, dry skin, brittle hair, constipation, mood disorders. Not all can be present, and there can be other symptoms too.


Well, none of those fit. She just has dander.


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## brindle (Mar 14, 2013)

bett said:


> forgive me, but what kind of dog do you have with the excess dander?
> 
> i find, with my labs, black especially, that a bath a year, is more than enough.
> brushing, while not only helping to get rid of the excess shedding stuff, also does help distribute the oils in the skin and for a time, it does appear that there is more dander. i kind of think that is from stirring it up and loosening what is gonna come up anyway.
> ...


We don't know what she is. She is a mutt but if I were to guess... a pit bull mix. Possibly lab in there (some expressions at some angles she looks JUST like a lab). Honestly, we don't know for sure.... the lady that she was taken from was not an honest person (a byb).


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## SuperPug (Mar 5, 2013)

Really hard to not give them a sweeping generalization when they all go to schools that basically lie to them and teach their students to lie to patients. Their medical producers are to die for (quite literally). Just not their knowledge on "why does my dog really need these rabies and booster shots". But that's another conversation that shouldn't derail the thread.

I know respective vets who dont follow the whole "your dog needs this because the government and school says so". Who dont push products on their patients. Those vets I highly respect. I haven't read Dr. Tim's posts enough to gather an opinion on him. Heck I haven't read anything that told me he was a vet.


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## bett (Mar 15, 2012)

meggels said:


> Of course they should. I figured that was a given.


it should be, i agree, but doesnt always seem to be.


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## brindle (Mar 14, 2013)

SuperPug said:


> Really hard to not give them a sweeping generalization when they all go to schools that basically lie to them and teach their students to lie to patients. Their medical producers are to die for (quite literally). Just not their knowledge on "why does my dog really need these rabies and booster shots". But that's another conversation that shouldn't derail the thread.
> 
> I know respective vets who dont follow the whole "your dog needs this because the government and school says so". Who dont push products on their patients. Those vets I highly respect. I haven't read Dr. Tim's posts enough to gather an opinion on him. Heck I haven't read anything that told me he was a vet.


An entire 2 paragraphs of generalizations. 
You drank the kool-aid... isn't anything I can say to change your mind.


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## Roo (Oct 17, 2010)

brindle said:


> You drank the kool-aid... isn't anything I can say to change your mind.


What kool-aid would that be Brindle? The drink mix that comes in different flavors like Cherry, Grape, Lemon-Lime, Orange, Raspberry, Strawberry etc.? Is there some other kind? That's the only kool-aid I'm aware of.


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## FBarnes (Feb 17, 2013)

brindle said:


> An entire 2 paragraphs of generalizations.
> You drank the kool-aid... isn't anything I can say to change your mind.


Yes it is a generalization - however, we should not take what a vet, or doctor, or teacher tells us as a truth. We have brains, we can look into things. I made the mistake for years of accepting the advice of "experts." There are good vets out there. I used to have one - I don't any more. That doesn't mean they know everything, and if they are making a profit off of the food they recommend I would be doubly suspicious of why they are recommending that food.

I was very lucky at one time to have a vet who supported me on my first steps in raw even though he didn't feed raw himself. Who agreed that vaccines could be harmful, and who took to heart the information I shared and looked into things for himself. They are out there. Now, I have a vet that goes down a checklist - mostly including food that makes a profit, vaccines, antibiotics, steroids, check check check. It is a challenge but I am better equipped now than I was a few years ago. I get what I want - mostly diagnosis, and he gets what he wants - not as much money as he would like, but money nevertheless. And it's hard to argue with my methods when they work. We manage.

And I think most vets would tell you that they got very little real nutrition training in vet school.


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## NewfieAussie (Feb 19, 2013)

Anybody else want the raw feeders to go back home and give us kibble feeders a break? Can you go play at your own house for awhile, kindof need a break before I get a bone to pick with you. (That was a joke) We may be over later! : )


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

I didn't see anything about R** feeding other than one statement as to their personal experience with a vet. No one even mentioned trying or switching to R**. We were discussing skin possible dander causes. Kibble or R** dogs gets dander. :/

Liz


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

Let's get this back on track before this thread needs to be closed.

Generalizations about any group are not really fair, so think about what you say before you say it (or...type it?)


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## FBarnes (Feb 17, 2013)

NewfieAussie said:


> Anybody else want the raw feeders to go back home and give us kibble feeders a break? Can you go play at your own house for awhile, kindof need a break before I get a bone to pick with you. (That was a joke) We may be over later! : )


Oh the irony...


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## brindle (Mar 14, 2013)

FBarnes said:


> Yes it is a generalization - however, we should not take what a vet, or doctor, or teacher tells us as a truth. We have brains, we can look into things. I made the mistake for years of accepting the advice of "experts." There are good vets out there. I used to have one - I don't any more. That doesn't mean they know everything, and if they are making a profit off of the food they recommend I would be doubly suspicious of why they are recommending that food.
> 
> I was very lucky at one time to have a vet who supported me on my first steps in raw even though he didn't feed raw himself. Who agreed that vaccines could be harmful, and who took to heart the information I shared and looked into things for himself. They are out there. Now, I have a vet that goes down a checklist - mostly including food that makes a profit, vaccines, antibiotics, steroids, check check check. It is a challenge but I am better equipped now than I was a few years ago. I get what I want - mostly diagnosis, and he gets what he wants - not as much money as he would like, but money nevertheless. And it's hard to argue with my methods when they work. We manage.
> 
> And I think most vets would tell you that they got very little real nutrition training in vet school.


I don't know how this got onto the topic of raw and the defense that always tends to ensue. 
By the "kool-aid" I was referring to the ongoing conspiracy theorists that pop out of the woodwork when it comes to the mentioning of veterinarians and their practices. 
There are some bad vets, of course, but generally speaking they do their utmost for the animals in their care. If they were "in it for the money" why wouldn't they just stay in school a bit longer and become md? Why? Because most genuinely want to help animals. 
Do they know everything about nutrition? No. BUT I would bet that they see enough issues with raw. THEY are intelligent enough to come to THEIR own conclusions about the benefit of a raw diet (or lack thereof). 
Do ALL vets recommend Science Diet. No. 
Do ALL vets disrespect and individuals way of feeding. No. 
Do I take every piece of advice that a vet gives me pertaining to nutrition. No. 
I will say that these people go to school for YEARS to better understand the creatures they take care of and I HAVE NOT taken years of schooling to understand these things. So I will continue to respect my vet and take their considerations very seriously. 
When one of the members on these boards go to university for 8+ years to take care of small animals, THEN I will take your advice a little more seriously concerning a raw diet. Otherwise it is just... meh. 
Anyway... 
I just gave my dog an ACV/water rub down and it removed A LOT of her dander! Thanks to whomever suggested it! 
Trying a new, fish based food tonight for supper. We shall see how she enjoys it... she isn't fussy thankfully


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## brindle (Mar 14, 2013)

FBarnes said:


> Oh the irony...


I don't mind that your group is over here... and I'm not going to report off topic posts either  
*ahem*


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## Sheltielover25 (Jan 18, 2011)

brindle said:


> I will say that these people go to school for YEARS to better understand the creatures they take care of and I HAVE NOT taken years of schooling to understand these things.


Yes, but none of the training goes towards nutrition so not sure how this matters. Also, medical doctors are the third leading killer of people -- straight from JAMA. So not sure I really trust someone just because "they went to school for years."


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## brindle (Mar 14, 2013)

Sheltielover25 said:


> Yes, but none of the training goes towards nutrition so not sure how this matters. Also, medical doctors are the third leading killer of people -- straight from JAMA. So not sure I really trust someone just because "they went to school for years."


Well if your dog gets hit by a car you can throw a poultice on it, chant a bit and call it a day. 
I've gone to the doctor many a time and I'm not dead. According to that statistic, I should be... or at least one person in my little family. 
No they don't go to school specifically for nutrition BUT some do get more classes in if they have the option. 
As I said, I don't take every bit of advice when it comes to a vets nutritional recommendations but I certainly do not think my vet is conspiring against me. 
My vet is very open about dietary options. If yours isn't, get a new vet.


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## SuperPug (Mar 5, 2013)

Repairing a dog via surgery has nothing to do with injuries.


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## brindle (Mar 14, 2013)

SuperPug said:


> Repairing a dog via surgery has nothing to do with injuries.


What are you saying?


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## Sheltielover25 (Jan 18, 2011)

brindle said:


> Well if your dog gets hit by a car you can throw a poultice on it, chant a bit and call it a day.
> I've gone to the doctor many a time and I'm not dead. According to that statistic, I should be... or at least one person in my little family.
> No they don't go to school specifically for nutrition BUT some do get more classes in if they have the option.
> As I said, I don't take every bit of advice when it comes to a vets nutritional recommendations but I certainly do not think my vet is conspiring against me.
> My vet is very open about dietary options. If yours isn't, get a new vet.


I rarely need a vet because my dogs are healthy. I don't ever let them be in a situation where they can get hit by a car  

I also would never need a doctor to give me advice about food. I don't understand why anyone would need medical assistance on what to feed an animal or a human; it isn't rocket science, right?

Also, statistics don't work like that lol It's the general population, ya know?


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## brindle (Mar 14, 2013)

Sheltielover25 said:


> I rarely need a vet because my dogs are healthy. I don't ever let them be in a situation where they can get hit by a car
> 
> I also would never need a doctor to give me advice about food. I don't understand why anyone would need medical assistance on what to feed an animal or a human; it isn't rocket science, right?
> 
> Also, statistics don't work like that lol It's the general population, ya know?


Accidents happen-- when they do you'll need to go to one of those conspiring vets. Or use a poultice...
I don't necessarily need a vets recommendation for diet, but I wouldn't discount their advice in specific situations.
Feeding an animal isn't rocket science, I agree. It still doesn't make all vets sickos that enjoy killing dogs via their diet.
I'm part of the general population


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## NewfieAussie (Feb 19, 2013)

I appreciate any input from Dr. Hunt and I do not appreciate anyone not treating him with repect. His food has done wonders for my daughters dog, pretty much brought him back to life physically and mentally. Around here it's harder to get into vet school than medical school. The really smart ones get into vet school. Kinda proud of my niece that just got accepted to Purdue vet school.

Anyway, my experience with dander is this. My Newfie would get scaly dry skin after she would get wet from being in the rain, swimming in the lake, getting wet to her skin. She has such a thick double coat that it would take a day to dry on its own and the end result was flakey skin. A call to my trusty Newfie breeder resulted in her recommending an industrial strength blow drier, a KIII or something like that. Haven't had flakey dander since using it. Probably doesn't apply to your dog but may help someone else with a double coated breed.


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## FBarnes (Feb 17, 2013)

brindle said:


> I don't know how this got onto the topic of raw and the defense that always tends to ensue.


I only mentioned raw in passing. Other people keeping bringing it up. I also didn't say vets are in it for the money. I wish you would quit pulling stuff out of thin air that I didn't say.

In fact I am pretty darn sure I said there are vets out there that are good vets. I also said we, as thinking human beings, shouldn't just blindly believe what we are told and that's also true for medical doctors, teachers - anyone who purports to be an expert. We need to work WITH our vets for the good of our dogs, not just take orders because someone went to school for X amount of time.


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## brindle (Mar 14, 2013)

FBarnes said:


> I only mentioned raw in passing. Other people keeping bringing it up. I also didn't say vets are in it for the money. I wish you would quit pulling stuff out of thin air that I didn't say.
> 
> In fact I am pretty darn sure I said there are vets out there that are good vets. I also said we, as thinking human beings, shouldn't just blindly believe what we are told and that's also true for medical doctors, teachers - anyone who purports to be an expert. We need to work WITH our vets for the good of our dogs, not just take orders because someone went to school for X amount of time.


I agree we shouldn't follow whoever yells loudest. Which is part of the reason I choose not to feed 100% raw. A whole lot of emotion behind the idea but not enough evidence/science for me.


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## FBarnes (Feb 17, 2013)

brindle said:


> Accidents happen-- when they do you'll need to go to one of those conspiring vets. Or use a poultice...
> I don't necessarily need a vets recommendation for diet, but I wouldn't discount their advice in specific situations.
> Feeding an animal isn't rocket science, I agree. It still doesn't make all vets sickos that enjoy killing dogs via their diet.
> I'm part of the general population


A medical doctor would be imprisoned and fined for making money off the medications he/she prescribes. Why is it ok for vets to do that same thing? If your vet told you that you need to buy medication for dander that he sells and makes $10 from would you be comfortable with that?


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## FBarnes (Feb 17, 2013)

brindle said:


> I agree we shouldn't follow whoever yells loudest. Which is part of the reason I choose not to feed 100% raw. A whole lot of emotion behind the idea but not enough evidence/science for me.


THat's your choice to make and I know you do what you think is best. Personally I don't think everyone who doesn't feed raw is a horrible person. No one is here because they don't care about their dogs. No one here is feeding the worst foods, hopefully. It's not my call to make and I just frankly don't care that much what other people feed.


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## brindle (Mar 14, 2013)

FBarnes said:


> A medical doctor would be imprisoned and fined for making money off the medications he/she prescribes. Why is it ok for vets to do that same thing? If your vet told you that you need to buy medication for dander that he sells and makes $10 from would you be comfortable with that?


Yep. I sure would.


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## FBarnes (Feb 17, 2013)

brindle said:


> Yep. I sure would.


I used to be. Not so much any more. After I blindly took the advice of a vet who prescribed a medication that made my dog deaf - her, the "Expert" who should have known better. I didn't check. I didn't research. I trusted her. And guess what? She got that tube of medicine right off her own shelf, and made a little money off of it.


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## brindle (Mar 14, 2013)

FBarnes said:


> I used to be. Not so much any more. After I blindly took the advice of a vet who prescribed a medication that made my dog deaf - her, the "Expert" who should have known better. I didn't check. I didn't research. I trusted her. And guess what? She got that tube of medicine right off her own shelf, and made a little money off of it.


That could have also happened with a random herb. Accidents happen.


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## SuperPug (Mar 5, 2013)

brindle said:


> What are you saying?


/facepalm *note to self, do not multi task.*

Anyways, what I was saying is doing surgery is completely different from knowing what nutrition a dog needs.

However, I do believe I am done with this thread.


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## NewfieAussie (Feb 19, 2013)

A surgeon charges $2500 for an orchiectomy.

A Vet charges $65 for an orchiectomy. If a vet gets to make $10 on a med, great. Saves me a trip to get his prescription filled.

An internist or family practice doc refers to a surgeon for an orchiectomy, trauma surgeon for a car accident, orthopedic surgeon for a fracture, rheumatologist for arthristis, OBGYN for a preganany, refers you to a nutritionist for dietary advice and the list goes on. 

My vet did surgery on my collie, a tumor removal for $85, takes care of dogs hit by cars, sets broken bones, took care of my Newfie when she had a limp, was doing a c-section when I had to pick up some a med last week, castrated my friends horse last week and comes to our farm to work our cattle ect ect. 

I consider it a convenience that they carry the meds in their office, sure wouldn't want give Walmart pharmacy the human price for some meds without insurance to fill a prescription or wait for Jeffers to mail my dog antibiotics if she had an infection.

Need I say more.


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