# Feeding both raw and kibble?



## luvMyBRT (Mar 8, 2010)

The more I am learning about raw the more I like it!

My problems with not going totally raw is I think my husband would totally freak at the idea, cost, and storage of the meat. I currently live in a small eastern Oregon town and am afraid that I would have a problem finding affordable meats and keeping enough stocked.

I would be feeding a 10 year old 48lb GSH Pointer who I am not concerned with the amount and price.
We will be getting a Black Russian Terrier puppy in a few months. He will weight between 120-140 pounds when full grown. I am worried that feeding him raw may be like feeding a horse.

I would love to hear more about this from people who have been feeding raw. 
Would it be possible to feed both kibble and raw? Like give a meal of kibble in the morning and do raw for dinner? Or mainly feed a high quality kibble and do some raw treats?
I feel that maybe if I ease my hubby into this he will be more apt to maybe going totally raw down the road...LOL....:biggrin:
If it were me, and money wasn't a problem, I would start raw tomorrow morning. :smile:


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

saraj2878 said:


> The more I am learning about raw the more I like it!


I think this is usually the case. It takes some warming up to the idea... but the more you read, the more it makes sense, and the more you wanna do it!



saraj2878 said:


> My problems with not going totally raw is I think my husband would totally freak at the idea, cost, and storage of the meat. I currently live in a small eastern Oregon town and am afraid that I would have a problem finding affordable meats and keeping enough stocked.


All you need is one extra freezer, which can usually be found on CL at decent prices, and from there, let the savings begin!! My husband (he was my fiance at the time) thought I was totally nuts when I put Grissom, my corgi, on raw against my vet's advice. But after seeing the results, he's insisted all the dogs be raw fed, and he might even be more determined to switch the cat over than I am! 
I think small towns might be even easier to find deals in! I have a tough time in Las Vegas because all we have is all the big chain stores, which are less likely to work with you than little independent places that are more commonly found in smaller towns. 




saraj2878 said:


> We will be getting a Black Russian Terrier puppy in a few months. He will weight between 120-140 pounds when full grown. I am worried that feeding him raw may be like feeding a horse.


Raw feeding is generally cheaper than feeding premium kibbles, so, big dog or small, you'd save money on raw. I was spending over $90/month feeding premium kibbles to just TWO dogs, and now I spend about $70 to raw feed a boxer, a corgi, and a cocker spaniel. And that's if nothing is on sale, and I don't find any deals. (i generally only buy sale meats, so I doubt i've ever spent even close to that.)




saraj2878 said:


> Would it be possible to feed both kibble and raw? Like give a meal of kibble in the morning and do raw for dinner? Or mainly feed a high quality kibble and do some raw treats?


While I do think that some raw is better than no raw, I can testify that you don't see the true benefits of a raw diet without cutting commercial kibble entirely. I used to feed ground venison mixed with innova to my corgi, and I thought he was doing well, but when I took kibble out entirely, and went 100% raw... oh man, he's the definition of perfect canine health. 
If you want the benefits of raw (breath, coat, skin, poop, energy, etc) the only way to get them is an exclusive raw diet. 



saraj2878 said:


> I feel that maybe if I ease my hubby into this he will be more apt to maybe going totally raw down the road...LOL....:biggrin:
> If it were me, and money wasn't a problem, I would start raw tomorrow morning. :smile:


I know some people warm up to the idea by first getting comfortable with pre made raw like nature's variety. They're super expensive, not that great, and i personally wouldn't waste my time on it, but it could be a stepping stone.


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## luvMyBRT (Mar 8, 2010)

Thank you for your input!
I can totally see the benefits of going totally raw, I just need to "ease" the hubby into it. Coming from a non dog lover family it can take a while, though I must say I have rubbed off on him some! :biggrin:

What of this idea-start off by feeding kibble like we normally do. When shopping if I see some chicken on sale (whole, quarters, legs?)get some. Substitute one of the dogs meal, maybe dinner, for some chicken. Then over time maybe have a day where they only eat raw. Then just continue and slowly phase out kibble, and at the same time get the hubby used to the idea.

I know I won't see the total benefits of not going completely raw, but atleast it would be a stepping stone to be completely raw one day. And I really want to get to that point...atleast it would help with keeping their teeth cleaner!

When shopping what is the best chicken parts to get? Whole and then I can cut it in half or whatever size I need? Legs? Should I get organs too?
What should I stay away from?


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

saraj2878 said:


> Thank you for your input!
> I can totally see the benefits of going totally raw, I just need to "ease" the hubby into it. Coming from a non dog lover family it can take a while, though I must say I have rubbed off on him some! :biggrin:


That's great that you're rubbing off! Ironicly, it's MY family that dislikes animals, and I'm the animal lover, and it's Jon's family that loves dogs, and he was the one totally weirded out by raw. 



saraj2878 said:


> What of this idea-start off by feeding kibble like we normally do. When shopping if I see some chicken on sale (whole, quarters, legs?)get some. Substitute one of the dogs meal, maybe dinner, for some chicken. Then over time maybe have a day where they only eat raw. Then just continue and slowly phase out kibble, and at the same time get the hubby used to the idea.


Oh absolutely, if he'll go for it, do it that way!! While you won't see all the benefits, it will do no real harm. You might see some digestive upset going back and forth, but maybe not. And if that's what it takes to get the hubby on board, then that's what you should do! I only suggested pre made because usually people weirded out by pmr are more comforable by still feeding something considered to be "dog food"



saraj2878 said:


> When shopping what is the best chicken parts to get? Whole and then I can cut it in half or whatever size I need? Legs? Should I get organs too?
> What should I stay away from?


Get anything you can! I buy quarters. Lots of people buy backs, but generally those have to be special ordered. You just want to stay away from parts that are smaller than your dog's mouth, you want them to have to chew and crunch the bone to get it down. 



have you already brought up the idea of raw?
When I told Jon that's what I was going to do, he went on and on about how the vet said no, and he heard bones are bad and blah blah blah, but I had him read some stuff on here and just like you, the more he read and we talked about it, the more sense it made.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

saraj2878 said:


> The more I am learning about raw the more I like it!


Good to hear...and the more you learn the more you become an addict and advocate to the movement!



> My problems with not going totally raw is I think my husband would totally freak at the idea, cost, and storage of the meat. I currently live in a small eastern Oregon town and am afraid that I would have a problem finding affordable meats and keeping enough stocked.


Most people find it more affordable to feed raw. Depending on where you live is a crucial part in finding out if it will be an affordable switch. Living near a big city will help immensely because there will most likely be at least a few meat wholesale distributors that you can set up relationships with for meats. But if you can make a bulk order you will only have to go to a city once every few months for meats.

Looking on CL for freezer burned meats or contacting a local co op organization for group buys on meat. There are plenty out there, you would just have to possibly drive a ways to get your meat.

Storing the meat is best done in a dedicated freezer, we have two GIANT dedicated freezers for the dog's meat...kinda crazy I know. But having the extra space is really beneficial. That way you can always take advantage of meat sales or random group buys. I haven't noticed a difference at all really in my energy bill after adding the first freezer and now even the second freezer, maybe a very small difference but not enough to make it significant.

If your hubby freaks at the idea, tell him that its normal for hubby's to do so...just ask a few of the members on here. See if you can get a written testimonial from one of them (ie BGBY on here had a horrible time convincing hers that raw was a good idea). Ask him to do his own research and if he can find anything better than he can have a say in what to feed the dogs. If not, tell him to leave the dog's diet up to you :wink:



> I would be feeding a 10 year old 48lb GSH Pointer who I am not concerned with the amount and price. We will be getting a Black Russian Terrier puppy in a few months. He will weight between 120-140 pounds when full grown. I am worried that feeding him raw may be like feeding a horse.


We have 4 big dogs weighing from 65-120 and equal out to about 330 pounds of dog all together to feed each day. We go through about 7-9 pounds of meat per day depending on what they eat. We spend about $4-6 per day on meats on average, or about $125-$140 per month on meat on average. Not bad. We would be spending about twice that if we fed kibble.

You also have to take into account health care costs that would be at a minimum with a raw fed dog. No dental cleanings, which can cost $200-1000 depending on where you live and the extent of the "damage" done by kibble. Better overall health will mean and overall decrease in vet bills. This of course is subjective and depends on the individual dog but it is something to keep at the back of your mind.



> I would love to hear more about this from people who have been feeding raw.
> Would it be possible to feed both kibble and raw? Like give a meal of kibble in the morning and do raw for dinner? Or mainly feed a high quality kibble and do some raw treats?


I would highly vote against doing this. Kibble and raw digest at very different rates and efficiency. 

Kibble takes 12-24 hours to go from one end to the other and digestion efficiency is only ~30%...which means ~70% waste...ie poop LOL

Raw takes ~6 hours to go from one end to the other and digestion efficiency is ~80-95%! That means a lot less waste and less mess for you to pick up. Your dog will use more of the food that it eats, which costs you less!

Due to the HUGE difference between them it "confuses" the body to go from one "lifestyle" (omnivore nutrition in kibble) to another "lifestyle" (carnivore nutrition on raw) every day or every other day. 

If you want to mix the two...I would give RMB's (raw meaty bones) on occasion for the dental benefits (although you wont see full results this way) I would plan the day and hold off feeding any kibble that day and only give the raw. But I wouldn't do this more than once a week or so...or at the amount you notice that your dog will handle it without any digestive upset.



> I feel that maybe if I ease my hubby into this he will be more apt to maybe going totally raw down the road...LOL....:biggrin:
> If it were me, and money wasn't a problem, I would start raw tomorrow morning. :smile:


You being on the right track is a GREAT start! That is all you need to start with...an itch to change. Just keep things on track and get your hubby to do some research of his own so he can have an educated opinion on the matter!

Good luck!


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## dobesgalore (Oct 21, 2009)

:biggrin:


saraj2878 said:


> The more I am learning about raw the more I like it!
> 
> My problems with not going totally raw is I think my husband would totally freak at the idea, cost, and storage of the meat. I currently live in a small eastern Oregon town and am afraid that I would have a problem finding affordable meats and keeping enough stocked.
> 
> ...


I have been working on my husband slowly for about the last four months or so. He knows I have been researching raw feeding a lot, so I drop little hints every now and then about what I have learned and the benefits. He handling it all real well now. Still got some ways to go though! Just give it time and be patient! lol!


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## spookychick13 (Jan 26, 2010)

I never realized how lucky I am that my hubby didn't have a problem with it.

He was like 'If you think it's best, let's do it!' :redface: He is for keeps.


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## LindaP (Jan 14, 2010)

I got my husband over the hump--even though he wasn't a hard sell--with the question, "Would you feed a rabbit steak?"

Dogs need to eat what they need to eat--not what the multi-million dollar dog food industry markets. Your DH has a close mind because he has not taken the time to do his own research and read. That's a tough situation when someone is negative because of their own lack of information. Keep at it. He'll come around.

Also, you might be surprised what you find in your area for meat suppliers. You might have to do some driving, but I bet you can find good, cheap reliable sources. Good luck!


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## JayJayisme (Aug 2, 2009)

I had to "ease" my wife into the idea of raw feeding too, although with her not being a "dog person" and us never having had dogs before as a couple, EVERYTHING about dog ownership was new to her. So the whole raw thing was just too much for her on top of everything else in the beginning. 

After she got more used to the dogs, and concurrently, realizing that I really do know quite a lot about them, she started to loosen up until I finally thought the timing was right to introduce her to raw. By then I had been feeding premium kibble supplemented with raw but in hindsight, I should have just waited and switched them over cold turkey. But the advantage of easing into it was that by the time she was ready to hear about it, the dogs were already open to eating raw. So I started letting her feed them and because they were eager to accept raw meaty bones from her, it made the experience fun for her and she easily accepted it after that.

But the part kibble/part raw diet was rough on the dogs. Their digestive systems never really worked right until I switched them over to 100% raw. I recommend you find the right time and switch over cold-turkey instead of trying to ease into it. I agree with Natalie too that the net cost of raw is really significantly lower than premium kibble, not just through the cost per pound/lower volume of food, but also through a significant reduction in health care costs as she stated.

Jay


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## luvMyBRT (Mar 8, 2010)

Thank you all so much for the help and suggestions. I think he is still getting over how much we spent over the life of our Rottweiler, who we just lost to cancer. Our cute little 8 week old FREE puppy turned into our thousand dollar dog. However, I do have to give him credit. We have been married for almost 4 years and he has really gotten close to the dogs and really does love them. When Kodi got sick he had no problem spending what we needed to spend to do what we needed to do as far as treatments, meds., etc. Now, looking back I wonder how Kodi's life would have been if we had been feeding raw??? Hummmmm.....

A great aspect to going raw is the overall health and fewer vet bills! Hopefully raw will get some good brownie points with him there!

I do think that him sitting down and reading some about raw would be good. Can anyone suggest a good article that would help in winning him over?


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Send him to:

Dedicated to proper carnivore nutrition - Prey Model Raw Feeding for Dogs & Cats

Or get Dr. Tom Lonsdale's book "Works Wonders" which is a very easy read.


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## luvMyBRT (Mar 8, 2010)

Update: Hubby and I talked last night for an hour about raw feeding. He responed GREAT! :biggrin: Listned to what I had to say about the benefits, etc. He even read a bit on the internet about it! I am more than happy.

Here is our problem. Tell me if my math is wrong (I know this is all approximate also). I am also estimating on the higher side with weight and price.

GSH Pointer about 50 pounds:
Would eat about 1.5 pounds of meat a day.
45 pounds of meat in a month.
At .74 cents a pound that's about $34 dollars a month.
This is wonderful IF I could actually find meats that are about this price per pound on a regular basis. We are currently spending about $40.00 a month on a bag of kibble for her. And, a 35lb bag will usually last her a bit more than a month.

In a few months we will be adding a Black Russian Terrier puppy. He will be about 140 pounds full grown.
Full grown he will eat about 4.2 pounds of meat a day.
About 126 pounds of meat in a month!
At .74 cents a pound that's about $94 dollars a month.
He will also eat more while he is a puppy and growing. So for the first year or so, this will be more, right?
I am estimating that he will eat about 2- 35lb bags of kibble a month. So that would be $80.00

Both dogs per month (when the BRT is full grown) raw fed approx: $128
Both dogs per month (when the BRT is full grown)kibble approx: $120

So, the decision is VERY easy that we would feed raw. No brainer.

This is what the hubby is worried about:

-How much more the puppy will eat while growing, thus raising the cost of how much meat we would feed. With kibble being a bit less, it would utimatly be less expensive (but not by much).

-His ultimate concern is not being able to find meat at .74 cents a pound or less on a consistant basis. I am also a bit worried about this. He feels that the cost of meat is variable and changes all the time. Kibble is a set price and easy to budget on a monthly basis. Being in a small town I only have a Safeway and Walmart for shopping. If we lived in a larger town/city with a bit more options I would feel more comfortable.

The next thing I'm going to do is to see if I can find any other meat suppliers in town and watch the meat prices at Walmart and Safeway.

Any tips or suggestions for finding meat? Are my calculations correct? Any other suggestions?

Hubby said if we can find meat at a good price on a consistant basis he is more than happy to go raw. Wish me luck!! :biggrin::biggrin:

Thanks for all the help!


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5 (Feb 11, 2010)

saraj2878 said:


> Update: Hubby and I talked last night for an hour about raw feeding. He responed GREAT! :biggrin: Listned to what I had to say about the benefits, etc. He even read a bit on the internet about it! I am more than happy.
> 
> Here is our problem. Tell me if my math is wrong (I know this is all approximate also). I am also estimating on the higher side with weight and price.
> 
> ...


wait so you dont have a rottie> whos dog is in your avi? looks like a young rottie mix/


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## luvMyBRT (Mar 8, 2010)

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> wait so you dont have a rottie> whos dog is in your avi? looks like a young rottie mix/



Yes, we did have a Rottweiler, Kodi. Back in January we lost him to bone cancer. He was 9 years old. I love showing him off...he was a wonderful dog, my constant companion. I miss him like crazy....:smile:


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

saraj2878 said:


> In a few months we will be adding a Black Russian Terrier puppy. He will be about 140 pounds full grown.
> Full grown he will eat about 4.2 pounds of meat a day.
> About 126 pounds of meat in a month!


the 2-3% is just a guideline, so don't let it freak you out by any means. I usually start with about 2.5% and with both of mine that have been on raw long enough to adjust, I've ended up bringing it down a little. 
2.5% of 140lbs is 3.5lbs per day or 105 lbs per month. Around $77.
This is all pointless math though, because as I said it's just a guideline, I just think you may have aimed a tad bit high, then again better safe than sorry!!!



saraj2878 said:


> -How much more the puppy will eat while growing, thus raising the cost of how much meat we would feed. With kibble being a bit less, it would utimatly be less expensive (but not by much).


You feed about the same amount through the lifetime of the dog, of course adjusting based off of body condition. 
So you'd feed the puppy 2-3% of his ideal ADULT body weight starting the day you bring him home, adjust for body condition after a couple weeks if you need to, and go from there, but generally speaking, it's the same amount as a puppy as it is for adult dogs.



saraj2878 said:


> His ultimate concern is not being able to find meat at .74 cents a pound or less on a consistant basis. I am also a bit worried about this. He feels that the cost of meat is variable and changes all the time. Kibble is a set price and easy to budget on a monthly basis. Being in a small town I only have a Safeway and Walmart for shopping. If we lived in a larger town/city with a bit more options I would feel more comfortable.


A very valid concern, I think. 
I'm assuming the $.74/lb came from my thread about our actual price. I'll have you know, that two of the meats we buy are nearly $2/lb. (Beef brisket and goat) but i only feed that once per week. I could keep it even lower if I cu out beef brisket and just used beef ribs, which are $1.18/lb
While as much variation as possible is best, we still have to keep our costs down by using chicken as the bast of their diet, and even though 50% of their meat is chicken, and I'd love to even it out a little more between all the protien sources, it's far superior than feeding kibble. Chicken Leg Quarters at wal mart are about $.60/lb at normal price, but go on sale so often I don't think we ever even pay that. I've seen them as low as $3 for a 10lb bag. I use this to keep my costs down, and to make it possible to feed more expensive things and keep my average below $1/lb, which is what I aim for. 
If you find somewhere to order chicken backs, those are generally even cheaper than quarters. 



saraj2878 said:


> Any tips or suggestions for finding meat? Are my calculations correct? Any other suggestions?


I strongly suggest getting a second freezer, and that way you can actually stock up when you see good sales. Jon and I very rarely buy things at full price. Every now and then, when we have freezer space, we'll jsut go to a few grocery stores, check sales, and buy stuff at a good price. By having a constant supply, we never run out and are forced to go out and buy anything at full price. 
Chicken leg quarters go on sale at wal mart all the time because they have a pretty short shelf life. I also see beef brisket, pork roasts, and whole turkey on sale a ton. These are things I think I have maybe paid full price for once or twice. 



If you know you want to go raw, and you have some kibble left, i'd take advantage of the time to fiish the kibble by getting set up early, give yourself a little time to look for sales and buy some cheap stuff. 
Winco, Food4Less, Smiths, and Wal Mart are where I've had the most luck with cheap meats, but also look at ethnic markets for good deals on organs.


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## luvMyBRT (Mar 8, 2010)

Awesome. Thanks for the comments.
Yes, I did get the .74 cents a pound from your post. It's kinda what I am using as a starting point cost wise.
Lucky has a full bag of kibble right now. That would give me a month or so to do a bit more research, find a freezer and begin stocking up before switching Lucky.
The puppy won't be coming home until July or August, so I would still have a few months to stock up even more.

The key right now is seeing if I can find meats at a price we can afford.


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## blue (Jan 13, 2010)

Hi, I'm on the other side of he mountains from you. Here's a start for you this guy delivers to central Oregon.Doug the Meat Man Raw Beef for Pets - Home:smile:


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## Maab (Nov 9, 2009)

mhmm... My giant schnauzer is now 13 months old and 72 lb. I give her 1.5 lb a day and she is not under weight at all. Your numbers could be a little too optimistics. 

I was in a similar situation like yours and when I saw how well the dog was doing on raw I switched completely to raw and never regretted it. 
And I live a small apartment in the city with no freezer space and I still manage raw. 

You'll see...



saraj2878 said:


> Update: Hubby and I talked last night for an hour about raw feeding. He responed GREAT! :biggrin: Listned to what I had to say about the benefits, etc. He even read a bit on the internet about it! I am more than happy.
> 
> Here is our problem. Tell me if my math is wrong (I know this is all approximate also). I am also estimating on the higher side with weight and price.
> 
> ...


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## Jordan S. (Feb 2, 2010)

saraj2878 said:


> The more I am learning about raw the more I like it!
> 
> My problems with not going totally raw is I think my husband would totally freak at the idea, cost, and storage of the meat. I currently live in a small eastern Oregon town and am afraid that I would have a problem finding affordable meats and keeping enough stocked.
> 
> ...


Yes I feed 70% Wellness CORE and 30% raw. I feed raw and kibble on different days. Considering my main source for meat is the grocery store, 100% raw is not totally duable to to price. He does great on the current diet regime. Mondays and Sundays he gets chicken legs or quarters, sometimes pork, and all other days he receives his Wellness.


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