# Over my head, seeing a nutritionist on Wednesday. Need facts.



## bridget246 (Oct 26, 2011)

In order to get my dogs hearthworm I'm going to have to sit with this nutritionist for at least 15 minutes if not 30 minutes. He charges 50 dollars per 15 minutes. I'll try to break things up into sections for easier understanding as this will be a long post.

History:

It is all over this forum. Bridget a 10 month old GSD has inflamed bowel syndrome. Try as I might I can't get this dog to put on any serious weight. This includes the raw diet. I keep hitting walls when I increase her food so I have to go slowly but I'm being told things are moving along too slowly and my dog is far too skinny. 

Problem:

They want to know what I'm feeding her now and what I plan to merge into say months into the future. They would like it to see a complete system with anything and everything that is going to go into Bridget's mouth. They will want more than one plan in the event that the first one isn't going to work. Or, they will give me their plan and to move forward with any other problems Bridget might have I will have to be following it without making any exceptions. My vet is telling me that they have to get her up to 2 pounds a day and they need to do it now. I was informed that we are running out of time to keep guessing and slowly introducing things because she needs those calories and she needs to actually be taking them in and using them if I want my dog to live. If the raw diets require a translation then they will tell me to scrap it for now and revisit at a later time.

What I need:

I need plans. I need facts that are documented. I know the primal raw guide. But being face to face to a nutritionist who will want hard facts on what I'm doing is going to make this all very complicated. I need proof that dogs don't need carbs. I've asked for proof that carbs are needed and my vet was embarrassed to say that she couldn't get that to me but the nutritionist should be able to. I need to speed up my raw diet translation again and I don't know how to without putting more stress on her system. But her system is currently being seriously stressed from a lack of nutrition. 

My problem: 

I might have some of these facts. With so much stress going on in my life right now I'm doing my hardest to not have a break down. My head-hurts. Time isn't on my side. I'm currently unemployed and somehow I have so much to do I can barely manage it all. I'm finding it hard not to second guess things I've read. Never thought I'd be here. I held my own with the vet I saw today which was pretty impressive. She is very interested in getting the help I needed which means I managed to hold my own without making the vet feel attacked or wronged which is very important to me. However, this nutritionist gets paid by the minute. I will not have the time to recall anything. This nutritionist is willing to listen but he will not be accepting anything less than a good concert plan towards solving this issue of my dog being underweight. He has approved raw diets before but only from those who knew what they are doing. However, my dog is doing pretty bad so there is still a chance giving the severity of the issue despite what good plans and facts I might have it might not be the right time to try and convert.

Other notes:

I posted this thread here as opposed to the raw section because I believe this is where the receipts goes. A mod can feel free to move it if they feel it is in the wrong place.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

I wonder if she has EPI....Exocrine pancreatic insufficiency disease. It's very, very common in GSDs. Has anyone suggested this to you yet?


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## bridget246 (Oct 26, 2011)

DaneMama said:


> I wonder if she has EPI....Exocrine pancreatic insufficiency disease. It's very, very common in GSDs. Has anyone suggested this to you yet?


Yep, negative. Next up we will be testing basal cortisol to rule out Addison's disease and protein and albumin levels. Talked them out of the exam fee so the cost will only be 70 dollars for both test.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

what tool did they use to diagnose inflamed bowel?

dogs do gain weight on raw, but you're right. they lose it first.....generally....she's had so many stumbles, i believe if that's her diagnosis, things can be done to accomplish what you want...but supervision is of the utmost in importance.

having said that, i really do believe it is time for you to breathe.

see if you can post a picture of her, from the top and the side....and head on....let's take a look at her....if you don't mind.

there are dogs who have a rougher time transitioning to raw than others, there are few dogs who don't transition or can't.

barring illness or disorder or genetics...so i'm including that caveat.

orijen's white paper talks about raw, david mech is one to look up, tom lonsdale...all have information on the internet about dogs being carnivores....

on the other hand, all the paperwork and books in the world won't convince someone who believes that raw is wrong.

what your vet says about getting bridget up to two pounds per day.....and there's no time....i'm sorry, but that does not make sense....

if you tried to make her gain weight this very moment, she'd have cannon butt no matter what you fed her.

what's important is that she drinks.....gets enough electrolytes to keep her alive....

no matter what you end up feeding her, increasing amounts is going to go as slowly as transitioning to raw....it's simply not healthy for her to go from what she's eating now to two pounds per day.....so immediately.

having said all this, i think it's time for you to breathe.

and step back from the situation. you're too far into it to see the big picture at the moment....and maybe just maybe a cooked diet might be more suitable until you can put weight on her and then revisit raw.....


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## bridget246 (Oct 26, 2011)

Thank you Magicre. Your post always bring me back to reality. That is what I was thinking. That was my argument when they told me 2 pounds. Anything fed a that high of a rate would be a problem. I increased her food slightly. I know if I go to fast she will blow up on me and we will back at day 1. My vet told me to take her advice with a grain of salt because she was a vet and not a nutritionist. The nutritionist might not agree with her at all so she wants to be there to see what he says. 

My gf just called to give me her doctors advice on what has been going with her. I love hearing medical advice. I really do. But right now things are just floating around. I have to narrow my focus. Going into cooked requires so much more knowledge and test. What I'm doing now is giving me results that I'm looking for. Yea, mucus is still heavy inside the stool. But it is getting clearer which is a great sign. I doubt I can wave a magic wand and rush it away over night. But I can sit make sure things are indeed improving. 

On another note. Not really related to the thread's topic. Bridget is drinking less now that we went to the meat. Of course it is because of the moister in the chicken. But that means she isn't getting the pedialyte.

I'll look into the three person of interest. Origen White, David mech, and Tom Lonsdale. I'll do it tomorrow. Tonight, I need to rest. It is good to know I wasn't wrong about throwing food at her.

Below is when she first started raw.









This is Bridget now in these 4 pictures.


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## monkeys23 (Dec 8, 2010)

I agree that going immediately to 2lbs a day would wreck more havoc... her food needs upped gradually. Also... 10 month old GSD's are notoriously lanky, lean and awkward... at least if they aren't overweight anyway. Most GSD's don't fill out completely until 2-3yrs old. If someone isn't familiar with the breed they absolutely might think the dog has issues if its in a weird growth spurt. Now obviously Bridgit IS having issues, but I am betting she is just super sensitive to things dogs shouldn't eat and her system is so inflamed from all its been through in her short life. Hopefully this overpriced nutritionist is actually educated well on various methods of feeding, including raw. I dunno, I think its very good to be versed in nutrition, but I have to question someone's motives who makes that much $$ in 15 friggin' minutes. Just saying! 

Also, wasn't she purchased from a pet store? Do you know her background at all?
I ask because I have a mostly GSD mix that was born into the "rescue" (I put that in quotes because I take issue with how it was handled... long story) aftermath of a hoarding situation. To put it bluntly she is crap bred. She has generalized anxiety issues that are probably a combination of genetic, chemical (in utero stress hormones...), and environmental (cobbled together "rescue", then on to a very unprepared, but well meaning pet owner... followed by another of the same before coming to me) factors. She is not normal and never will be normal, but she's a wonderful dog. Every damn day I'd like to beat the crap out of the hoarder and rescue for sentancing her to live with her issues and she has better quality of life than some of the other dogs involved... Every single pic I have seen of dogs from that hoarding bust has the same very distinctive typey facial and body features, not the least of which include a very high tuck and extremely bony topline.... regardless of the dog being fed Ol' Roy (a friend of mine used to work at a daycare where this dog was a visitor... grossly overweight and still had the bony topline) or fed PMR like my dog Scout. They are normal everywhere, but the topline. In other words, Scout is a muscular healthy dog with a glorious coat.... and yet she has a bony topline no matter what I do. Rather than upset her stomach and system overall by overfeeding her and making her sick from it I've had to make peace with the fact that she won't ever be normal... I'd much rather her be healthy, happy, and kinda goofy looking than make her sick trying to make her fit some ideal she will never fit.

Now this is an extremely specific example from a very specific gene pool. I am not in any way saying Bridgit is like Scout. What I am saying is please take into account that she might not have the best genetics and her individual body may be super sensitive to biologically inappropriate foodstuffs because of that. If that is truly the case and testing reveals no systematic disease (excepting the broad label irritated bowl syndrome which IMO leads back to the system being taxed unnecesarily by inappropriate foodstuffs) I would take a conservative approach to slowly upping her food on PMR. Very slowly. Yes its important to get nutrition into her growing body, but it'd suck to feed into that vicious cycle of making her so sick by irritating her system as well. If you and your team of professionals decide on another dietary path, thats fine too. Whatever works I guess.

Everything here is just my opinion from experience living with two extremely sensitive dogs partly of the same breed, i.e. I don't have qualifications in nutrition/veterinary science fields. However, while science is crucial we do need to remember that like academic research every ounce of scientific research has bias is some direction or another. Specifically rooted in who is funding the research and how those entities want the study to pay them back so to speak. I find it very interesting how while academic debates are de riguer, for the lay person to think critically and question scientific findings is blasphemous to put it mildly. Man if I were independantly wealthy I would so fund some canine nutritional research for pmr.

I've done way more research than most pet owners of purebred GSD's have done into the breed because I am very interested in them as working dogs. While my research and meeting dogs has me more interested in Malinois for those years down the line when I'm ready for my next dog, I will say that if I went to buy a GSD one of the things I would require in a breeder (lines/genetics/working ability coming first of course) would be that they feed raw or partial raw. The difference in the dogs is clear IMO because it takes the good genetics to the next level. As someone who owns rescue mutts (I believe the same applies to poorly bred purebreds and certain lines of well bred purebreds as well) I have to say that its very interesting how specific breed traits from the breeds carry through... both Siberians and GSD's are EXTREMELY prone to digestive issues with commercial foods. I really enjoyed one of the example's that Tom Lonsdale used in his book Raw Meaty Bones about the experiment with one team of sled dogs being fed a so called performance kibble and the other the typical fare of raw fed sled dogs... the kibble dogs had bloody anal discharge while they were working... Dang I wish I had my book on me, I feel like I should cite page #'s.

I'll stop rambling now, but I think the point I'm trying to make is to keep the faith and don't be overwhelmed by the "powers that be" at the nutritionist. Take notes and I would take in ?'s with me to ask as well as an outline of specifically what/how/why you would like to feed. That way you won't get sidelined by nervousness or stuck on a tangent or something. I know I got extremely nervous when my vet finally asked what I fed and that was just the vet!


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

so do you think bridget could handle a few more weeks of transition, barring nothing goes wrong this time?


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## PDXdogmom (Jun 30, 2010)

I've never fed raw so certainly can't advise you from that angle. I'm fairly neutral on that subject. If someone wants to go that route and it works for their dog . . . great.

But one sentence in your first post really stands out to me: _ she needs those calories and she needs to actually be taking them in and using them if I want my dog to live_

If the bottom line at the moment truly is getting sufficient calories and nutrition into your dog, i wouldn't adamantly cling to one method of feeding. If a home-cooked diet or high quality kibble would get your dog over the hump, wouldn't that be the most basic goal?


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

PDXdogmom said:


> I've never fed raw so certainly can't advise you from that angle. I'm fairly neutral on that subject. If someone wants to go that route and it works for their dog . . . great.
> 
> But one sentence in your first post really stands out to me: _ she needs those calories and she needs to actually be taking them in and using them if I want my dog to live_
> 
> If the bottom line at the moment truly is getting sufficient calories and nutrition into your dog, i wouldn't adamantly cling to one method of feeding. If a home-cooked diet or high quality kibble would get your dog over the hump, wouldn't that be the most basic goal?


My thoughts as well


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## bridget246 (Oct 26, 2011)

magicre said:


> so do you think bridget could handle a few more weeks of transition, barring nothing goes wrong this time?


This is a good question. Monkey brought up some nice points. Giving the past experience I had with raw before a wrench was thrown into my nicely created diet translation everything was fine and couldn't have been better. Her weight is up by 6 pounds since she went on it and that was only from last week. I think these professionals may not have a full understanding of what is exactly going on with a dog's system. If the dog is gaining weight and I can tell she is gaining weight then it might be best to keep on the this same path instead of changing to a different one. Everyone, non medical wise tells me my GSD has some extremely great treats that would make for a wonderful working class dog. Maybe I'm allowing these professionals to over complicate things and cloud my judgement. Either way, I would like to get the heartworm. It hasn't been very long since they gave her all of these antibiotics to treat all of these conditions caused by commercial foods that she didn't have a problem with before they gave her all of these antibiotics. 



PDXdogmom said:


> I've never fed raw so certainly can't advise you from that angle. I'm fairly neutral on that subject. If someone wants to go that route and it works for their dog . . . great.
> 
> But one sentence in your first post really stands out to me: _ she needs those calories and she needs to actually be taking them in and using them if I want my dog to live_
> 
> If the bottom line at the moment truly is getting sufficient calories and nutrition into your dog, i wouldn't adamantly cling to one method of feeding. If a home-cooked diet or high quality kibble would get your dog over the hump, wouldn't that be the most basic goal?


Again, if she is gaining weight does the above stand true? This vet was different from the tech who helped me Saturday and Friday. She said in a single day she noticed a huge translation that was almost magical. Is it perfect? No. I'm thinking it might be a step in the direction I want to go in. If I were to try the cooked meal could I also run into problems? I think I could and probably would. Not only that but it would set me back further from the progress I'm seeing while my dog suffers through it all. 

The bottomline here is that I can't get out of going to this specialist. I did request that we keep the visit down to only 15 minutes. If so we will be good to go. I'm going to call and cancel my appointment for test this Saturday for the time being and see how the next week or so goes. If Bridget weight keeps going up, even only a little, that will be a sign that we are headed in the right direction. Rushing things aren't going to help matters. It is time to work with the professionals when needed to get what I need done and then do my own work in my house. 

If I was a kid growing up if I listen to every professional who spoke to me I wouldn't be here typing right now because they didn't allow me to take typing classes. They tried to block me from getting an education long before I started causing any trouble for the schools. My mom refused their referral to skip out on school entirely and focus on a job task. I refused a easier past instead of the normal one that might have been too hard on me. It shouldn't surprise that some professionals no matter how skilled can and do make mistakes based on generalization and being overall very bias. If I see improvements with my eyes then who can tell me something else. I would understand if all the test I've done came back positive. This would all make sense. But they aren't. My raw diet test did come back positive so lets keep going in that direction and see what happens. 

On Wednesday are debate will not be very long. I will not push the time beyond 15 minutes. I really just want my heartworm that made for me. 8 dollars for a year supply and that is only because 8 dollars is the lowest price they are allowed to charge me? That sounds awesome and it gives me one less problem to worry about. It might be worth the 50 bucks to see this specialist if that is what is going to come out of it. Better this than to spend 150 on a normal vet visit at that place to get the same thing. In the end things work out better this way. I will post up the results of this meeting. Even if I don't agree with it. It might help someone else who is looking into it. That is what all of this is about right? Get more info out so that we can raise better stronger dogs in the future with fewer mistakes do to pure knowledge? 

I don't think Bridget is a crap breed. I think I'm a crap owner for allowing so much to go on. Working on too much at one time. I've narrowed my focus down to 5 core things to work at. I will work on those tirelessly until they are saw. Thinking I found my second wind and I'm ready to go ahead.


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## BeagleCountry (Jan 20, 2012)

bridget246 said:


> He has approved raw diets before but only from those who knew what they are doing. However, my dog is doing pretty bad so there is still a chance giving the severity of the issue despite what good plans and facts I might have it might not be the right time to try and convert.


If the nutritionist does not approve of your diet plan perhaps he would share the raw diet(s) that he found acceptable.


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## bridget246 (Oct 26, 2011)

BeagleCountry said:


> If the nutritionist does not approve of your diet plan perhaps he would share the raw diet(s) that he found acceptable.


Don't think I'd do it. I would store the advice for later though. I'm 95% sure his idea of raw will be the BARF diet. I'm going to take her slowly through chicken backs, chicken quarters because I don't want her stopped up with too much bone. Then a little turkey will slowly work it's way into her food. Very slowly as I'm better her immune system is going to take awhile to build back up from her huge vet experiences. Next I'll slowly add in pork and fish, one a time. Then a little tiny bit of liver. I might start with the liver a little sooner, but only in extremely small amounts just to get her use to it. Hopefully we can have this all done in a month. 

My only concern is the mucus in the stool. The fact that it is clear means it is headed the right direction. I just don't like seeing it in there at all. Everything is firm and easy to pick up. I'll take pictures of the stool tomorrow.


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## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

bridget246 said:


> Don't think I'd do it. I would store the advice for later though. I'm 95% sure his idea of raw will be the BARF diet. I'm going to take her slowly through chicken backs, chicken quarters because I don't want her stopped up with too much bone. Then a little turkey will slowly work it's way into her food. Very slowly as I'm better her immune system is going to take awhile to build back up from her huge vet experiences. Next I'll slowly add in pork and fish, one a time. Then a little tiny bit of liver. I might start with the liver a little sooner, but only in extremely small amounts just to get her use to it. Hopefully we can have this all done in a month.
> 
> My only concern is the mucus in the stool. The fact that it is clear means it is headed the right direction. I just don't like seeing it in there at all. Everything is firm and easy to pick up. I'll take pictures of the stool tomorrow.


Just make sure you don't try to go too fast. I know you are anxious to up her food and get weight back on her but after reading all of this I think it is going to take more than a month to get chicken, turkey, pork, fish, and liver into her diet. In an ordinary transition that would take around 2+ months. I just don't want to see more harm come of that than good. I found that, for Dude, gaining weight obviously picked up once he could handle untrimmed chicken. The fat and skin helped with Dude's weight immensely after he started dropping weight after I started skinning his chicken.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

the mucus is her mucus lining shedding from her intestine and from the slippery elm you gave her.

It's normal.

i agree your dog has an inflamed bowel. i'd bet on it.

but the last line of what you said earlier comes into play here...and i'm not trying to be harsh, but true is true.

you've allowed some nasties into a transitioning dog.. so knock it off 

now. she's gained six pounds in a week?

then you are on the right track. sometimes it's best to go with your gut than a doctor. 

as long as no one feeds her inappropriately, she is gaining weight...which is what you want. if her stools start to solidify, mucus or not, then you're on the right track.

as she gains weight, she will look and feel better. so will you.

i think, at this point, it would be harder for you to switch her to another style of food than to stay the course.

and, i hate to say this, but i have no boundaries nor couth nor manners...it's time for you to step up and do the right thing. stop delegating and take care of your girl....please. 

once transition is over, you won't go through this again, unless you let it happen.

i know you can do this...i know you can.


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## brandypup (Jan 23, 2012)

(((hugs))) 

Just hugs.. I have no insight. 

I can tell you I had a cat I brought into the house some people found. It was orange and declawed. The cat was SOOO dirty. That was Marly my Seizure cat. I tried for 3 months to feed him raw. He wasn't improving and he was getting worse. I went through many foods after that including trying raw again. Tured out he did his best on Natural Balance Venison. I mean the cat was gourgous and as healthy as a seizure cat could be. All my other cats were raw fed except him. 

If she is a pet store puppy you can do a search about her origins (SP) here
Request Report

Prayers all goes well and you can find a solution quickly and inexpensivly. She is a pretty puppers. 

And just becuase I can... 










to this


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## bridget246 (Oct 26, 2011)

brandypup said:


> (((hugs)))
> 
> Just hugs.. I have no insight.
> 
> ...


That is a nice looking cat. You guys got me liking cat's. Before I hated the little devils. 



Dude and Bucks Mamma said:


> Just make sure you don't try to go too fast. I know you are anxious to up her food and get weight back on her but after reading all of this I think it is going to take more than a month to get chicken, turkey, pork, fish, and liver into her diet. In an ordinary transition that would take around 2+ months. I just don't want to see more harm come of that than good. I found that, for Dude, gaining weight obviously picked up once he could handle untrimmed chicken. The fat and skin helped with Dude's weight immensely after he started dropping weight after I started skinning his chicken.


I've been leaving a little more and just a little more fat on the food. Haven't left really any skin on it though. She no problems with pork or turkey in the past. I'm doubting we are going to run into a problem this time but maybe. I also have my doubts about fish being a problem. But 1 thing at a time of course. I'll keep any new protein extremely small and slowly build so I can stop any problem that arrives.



magicre said:


> the mucus is her mucus lining shedding from her intestine and from the slippery elm you gave her.
> 
> It's normal.
> 
> ...


I know Bridget can do this. I know I can do this. She has gained at least 6 pounds. But I see her looking more normal by the day. Her coat is returning to it's usually shine. She is getting more mass around the shoulders. Her food is processing faster but is still solid so this is a good thing. I feel her to see what she has processed before deciding what and how much to feed her. It is really up to her to decide what her limit is and it is up to me to noticed the signs she is showing me.


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## bridget246 (Oct 26, 2011)

magicre said:


> orijen's white paper talks about raw, david mech is one to look up, tom lonsdale...all have information on the internet about dogs being carnivores....
> 
> on the other hand, all the paperwork and books in the world won't convince someone who believes that raw is wrong.



Good points. Very good points. Thank you for the name list and Orijen White's paper. I didn't see it at first and I was going to ask you about it. It was under the like share buttons. The others I couldn't find as much about but I did find some interesting things about all of them. I would have hated to walk in with only 1 source. I will speak for only 5 minutes. During which time I'll give the vet 7 minutes to speak. I'll set my phone to give 5, 7 and 3 minute reminders. We need to get things wrapped up in the last 3 minutes. 

I think my info gathering stage is complete. I don't need to do anymore though I'm curious and will look further into this. My recipes are simple and backed with hard research that I now have. Besides, my dog is proof herself. I'll bring her in tomorrow again if they want me to and they will see the change in only 2 days. Not many could ignore such a change in such a short amount of time. Having read these studies removed the blind faith I was going into this with and replaces it with a known truth that what I'm doing is the right thing. 

On another note. I fed Bridget her first quarter today. No problems to speak of. She is just processing it a little slower than I thought she would. I'll check her again around 11 to see what and if she eats tonight. She ate the leg quarter around 2 today. She already had 9 oz's today so it isn't like she'll go hungry otherwise.


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## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

bridget246 said:


> I've been leaving a little more and just a little more fat on the food. Haven't left really any skin on it though. She no problems with pork or turkey in the past. I'm doubting we are going to run into a problem this time but maybe. I also have my doubts about fish being a problem. But 1 thing at a time of course. I'll keep any new protein extremely small and slowly build so I can stop any problem that arrives.
> 
> I know Bridget can do this. I know I can do this. She has gained at least 6 pounds. But I see her looking more normal by the day. Her coat is returning to it's usually shine. She is getting more mass around the shoulders. Her food is processing faster but is still solid so this is a good thing. I feel her to see what she has processed before deciding what and how much to feed her. It is really up to her to decide what her limit is and it is up to me to noticed the signs she is showing me.


I know you said she hasn't had any problems with pork or turkey before but we just don't want to see Bridget go backwards because it sounds like you are making progress. We just don't want to see either one of you suffer (because we all know that we suffer when our dogs suffer). I know we may seem overbearing but we all care even though we have never met you or her.

I do have to ask though... What do you mean by you "feel her to see what she has processed before deciding what and how much to feed her"?


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

i was going to ask the same thing.


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## bridget246 (Oct 26, 2011)

Her belly. I felt it often to see how things are going. I've been doing it since a vet showed me about 5 months back. Is there something wrong with that? As she gains weight it might get harder to do but right now it is easy.


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## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

I don't see anything wrong with it as long as you aren't feeding her less in a day just because she doesn't seem to be digesting as fast. Buck gets 2 1/2 lbs every day and I don't feel him and base the amount on that. Buck is a dog who also has a hard time keeping weight on and he actually turns 11 months old today so he is pretty close to Bridget's age. The combination of being an extremely active dog and a growing pup keeps him thinner than he should be. He isn't in the same situation as Bridget but I know what its like to just wish your dog could be an easy keeper. 

We have to make sure that he gets his 2 1/2 lbs every day and he has noticeable weight loss and gain every day depending on how much he is fed. If he gets 2 lbs rather than 2 1/2 for a day or two there is a noticeable weight difference. It's a pain in the @ss. I know. Hahaha. 

I guess my only concern with basing her meals off of how much she has processed would be her total food in a day. Do you base the amount in each small meal on her belly while making sure she still gets her full amount of food each day or does she get a different total amount based on how her belly feels?


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## bridget246 (Oct 26, 2011)

No, it doesn't change what she is getting. Only the time of which I'm feeding. Just trying to give her the time she needs to process things. I would love to try to fed her a lot more a night and see what happens. I'm just afraid it would back fire on me.


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## bridget246 (Oct 26, 2011)

He approved it despite the vets objections. Just told me to give liver now. And try to fed more. Get in contact with the lettermates if possible. I have a good lead so I'll try too contact them tomorrow. 

The look on the vets faces made this all worth it. One vet and two vet students. It looked like the nutritionalist just crushed their whole foundation of truth.

Oh, he also told me to cancel any other recommend vet test for the time being. They needed if this works. If it doesn't the recommend ones may still not be needed and we will cross that bridge if and when we come to it.


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## Gally (Jan 28, 2012)

If you talk with the vets again I'd love to know what they have to say now.


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## bridget246 (Oct 26, 2011)

Gally said:


> If you talk with the vets again I'd love to know what they have to say now.


I doubt I will be back at OSU again because of the higher exam price. 150 first visit and 75 for any other visit plus a 25 dollar fee every time you walk into the door. 

I typed the above out on my phone. I will get a little more detail now.

The nutritionist said he didn't completely understand how the raw diet worked. He is really interested in finding out if it works well Bridget. If it does, awesome. No complaints. He knows about the changing of proteins but he is more concerned that Bridget gets organs and puts on more weight. So he wants me to stick with chicken. He also wants to send him the links on the raw diet that I've been reading on so he can do a more indepth review of it. Overall he seems like an awesome doctor. Nothing like I was expecting. 

I think the vets watching the visit learned a lot from this. They might actually go home and look it up to. Who knows, I might have started a mini movement yesterday. Won't be the first time I've done something like that by going against the norm. 

On the plus said Bridget had 18oz's yesterday without any problems. A little strain in the evening was all. This morning all was good. I switched from only chicken backs and quarters and added in thighs to get her more meat to go along with the bone and it seems to be working. Felt like she could have eaten a little more but I was afraid to push it and she didn't express hungry.


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## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

That's good to hear! Again, GO SLOW! Haha. Especially with organs. 

You know, I think I may be out of the loop. WHY were visiting this nutritionist? I read something about heartworm but I don't think, even after rereading the whole thread, that I have grasped the whole story.


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## bridget246 (Oct 26, 2011)

Dude and Bucks Mamma said:


> That's good to hear! Again, GO SLOW! Haha. Especially with organs.
> 
> You know, I think I may be out of the loop. WHY were visiting this nutritionist? I read something about heartworm but I don't think, even after rereading the whole thread, that I have grasped the whole story.


It was a recommendation from the vet I was taking Bridget to. She said it would allow us to remove the hearthworm additives from the equations and she wanted me to confirm the diet I was feeding Bridget since it wasn't a premade kibble one.


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## Kbug (Oct 23, 2011)

I just want to send some encouragement on picking a course of action and sticking to it. I have some personal experience trying to get a severely underweight dog to gain weight in the face of medical complications.

Fayt was diabetic and lost about 15 lbs before it was caught. You could see every individual rib and her spine. When she was diagnosed and started treatment and given a diabetic kibble she continued to lose weight. I had out of control blood sugars and my vet was telling me to just stuff her full of as much food as I could get her to eat to gain weight. Then, I switched her to raw. I decided early on to decide on an "ideal" weight and feed 2.5% of it to her and see how it went. Most dogs lose weight because of chicken, my dog gained 4 lbs in one month on just chicken, that is how underweight she was. 

She didn't look too much better physically for a while, but I could tell it was working for her because after 2 months she started growing her coat from where they shaved it all off. She also had much better energy. Your dog will be fine if you take it slow and breathe and stay the course. BTW, in my albums, or some of my posts from early November, you can see some pictures of how bad Fayt looked when I started her on raw. I absolutely believe she would have done wonderfully on raw.

Kbug


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## monkeys23 (Dec 8, 2010)

Sounds like its going well!


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## bridget246 (Oct 26, 2011)

Update on Bridget: She is adapting just fine. If she had IBS before I don't see it now. So whatever was the cause, medications or whatever appears to have left.

Update on the nutritionist: Tell me rather or not you feel this is strange. When I saw him he approved of my raw diet. About 2 and half weeks later he writes me an official letter not stating that he disagrees with it but that he can't approve of it. Why would he let so much time go by before giving me an official reply? 

He also sent me this link to read over. Took the time to copy it to a PDF instead of just sending the website. The beef over pet food - Salon.com

So at first he tells me it is worth a try and to cancel my next vet visits. Then later deny it. I hope that his advice to me in person did not get him in trouble. The vet and vet students standing behind him didn't like the advice he gave me at all. 

I have to wonder if this is just a tactic to save his job. Which, if that is the case I hope it worked. He seems extremely intelligent and caring. Even disagreed with the vet about Bridget needing carbs in her raw diet. His main argument for disagreeing was that not enough research was done on this diet. I agreed and suggested that if possible I would like him to look into the possibility of the long term affects of a raw diets when fed a variety of proteins. I doubt it will happen but figured why not try? At the worst he can say no or just ignore my reply to his e-mail. 

I always like the end things on a good note. When the vet first saw Bridget she said she looked like she was malnutrition and we should get her on kibble in a hurry. Again, the nutritionist didn't agree with her professional opinion malnutrition. The muscles were there, the body was in great shape. Her only problem that he noticed was she was the dog was underweight and the vet was wrong about any problems she wish to test for. Bridget is now almost 50 pounds. She has a lot more muscle than she use to have. Low on the fat side but is that really a problem when the dogs health is looking great?


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