# So Frustrated! How do you decide?



## Nana52 (Apr 28, 2012)

For weeks, months actually, I've been reading and researching and trying to learn all I can about raw feeding. From the get go, raw/natural makes sense to me (haven't feed kibble for years but home cooked but worried about if balanced, yada, yada), and I absolutely agree/believe that grains have no place in a dogs diet. Beyond that, I'm so confused, I don't know if I'm coming or going. Pretty much every book, every article, and every "raw feeding" web site says something different ... veggies/no veggies, give whole RMBs/grind the bones, if not feeding bones give egg shells or bone meal for calcium, eggs shells better, bone meal better/bone meal bad (has phosphorus), cottage cheese/yogurt yes-no-maybe, omega 3/6/9 too much/not enough, supplement/don't supplement. Gggggrrrrrr!

So right now, I'm struggling to read Dr. Becker's book, thinking she's a vet who advocates raw feeding, right? She's got to have it all together, right? I'm more confused and frustrated than ever. I've read some pages 3-4 times, still can't wrap my head around it. Feed this/don't feed that. If you feed this, you need this. If you feed that, you need the other. The list of rules and combinations of ingredients and list of supplements is staggering! And what's really p.i.s.s.i.n.g me off is "if your dog has thus and so, you need to work closely with a holistic veterinarian who is knowledgeable with raw diets." Really? If there was a holistic veterinarian on every street corner (raw diet knowledgeable or not), I wouldn't be reading your freaking book!!! The closest one to me is 175 miles away, and I don't even have a car!!

Seriously. What did you read, what did you hear, what did you see ...... who, what, when, and where ..... that made you go, enough of the BS, this is what I feel is right and what I'm going to do? I'm at my wits end (not a long trip).


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## BearMurphy (Feb 29, 2012)

PMR is the easiest because you just throw your dog a piece of meat and try to stick to this ratio 80% muscle meat/10% bone/5%liver/5% other organs. i supplement with omega 3's because murphy's diet lacks that since most meat isn't grass fed. that's it. i think that's pretty simple. i don't believe dogs need veggies and fruits but will throw murphy a piece every now and then when I'm eating it

i felt even more confident in it when I saw something that listed the vitamins and nutrients in a raw piece of meat and realized all that stuff was added back into kibble after it was cooked


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## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

I just do PMR because it's so simple.. envision an animal.. and feed it. About 10-15% bone, 10% organs, and the rest meat and fat. Most people here feed a lot of heart because it is so rich and nutritious (it's a muscle meat). The only supplementation you should need to do is wild salmon oil or an equivalent O3 supplement- not O6 or O9- there's enough of those in factory farmed meats. I feed no veggies, although if I am making a salad Tess always gets a bite of lettuce (she LOVES it for some reason... go figure..). 

It's nice to try and get as much red meat as possible, I do 1/3 to 1/2 red meat, and feed a lot of oily fish also!


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## KittyKat (Feb 11, 2011)

You are far and away over-complicating matters. Think about your own diet? Do you measure things every day? Ensure each day is fully balanced? No.

Wolves/dogs don't do that either. The idea is balance over time. What is important in a raw diet? Meat, bones, organs. 

This website here is your best bet for how to get started 

Follow that and you shouldn't run into issues. 

Buy a scale and kitchen scissors. 

If you have other issues, ask away in the raw forum.


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## Donna Little (May 31, 2011)

I think everyone that gets started feels just like you do in the beginning. I did the same research and came up with 5000 different opinions and was even more confused and frustrated. 
I feed 10 dogs raw and have been for over a year now. What I've realized is that it does become a balance over time. Unless you're a trained athlete you probably have days where you eat nothing but healthy foods and then days when you eat on the run and hit a fast food place with a twinkie for a snack. As long as the latter isn't your every day meal plan you're probably going to be doing okay. Same with the dogs. I decided that because I have so many dogs and need to be able to keep up with who's getting what I give the same thing to each dog every day. If on Mon they get a piece of bone in chicken for breakfast and beef heart with pork for dinner then I can remember that they each had some bone on that day. The next day would be boneless meats. I don't have tons of variety to offer around here for good prices so none of my guys get anything exotic. They get on a regular basis chicken and chicken liver, beef heart, liver, and kidney, turkey, pork with and without bone, occasionally duck, and occasionally a cut of beef if I can find it on sale. I don't feed fish anymore because not all of them like it and frankly I hate the smell. I supplement with coconut oil and sometimes fish oil. 
I don't know how much some of the other folks here really try to measure out the bone ratio with the organ and meat percentages but I just don't think about it. I mainly try to watch their poop. If it well formed we're all good. If it's a little dry they get no bone for a couple of days. If it's too soft they get a little more bone. Considering I'm feeding 10 dogs they're almost always consistently pooping perfect little poops so I must be doing something right. Now that they've been eating it for a while I do try to feed mostly red meat so the beef heart is the main staple of their diet.
What I've been pleased with mostly is their over all body condition. I have several that were significantly overweight and now they are down to a good weight. Nearly everyone has a gorgeous coat. My genetically bald Min Pin has grown a TINY bit of hair but her skin looks fantastic. My Chihuahua that has every health problem on the planet is doing great and has a better coat too... 
So seriously, take a deep breath, get your chicken, skin it and remove a lot of the fat and just get started. Keep an eye on the poop and if all is going well after about 10 days, add in a little boneless chicken or turkey. Then just keep adding proteins until you see that your dog can handle whatever you throw down that day. 
It really isn't rocket science. And if you do have questions as you get more into it, ask away. You're definitely in the right place for reliable answers!


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

I never read any books when I started raw over 4 yrs ago, why? I knew it was the best thing for my dog who couldn't process kibble. I followed RFD's menu and never looked back. You are over thinking and scaring the crap out of your self, why? Are you trying to talk yourself out of it? 

I believe Dr. Becker promotes her own line of supplements, so she wouldn't be my choice of a good read to start with.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Read the page kittykat gave you. That's all you need. PMR is the simplest and most correct way to feed a dog, in my opinion.

I don't know how somehow it's gotten to the point where we tell people, and people think, they need to do alot of research before starting this diet. 

I found this site and started the diet within a day or so of each other. 

I didn't do a bit of research. I just followed the directions  - since then, I have done alot of reading, alot of research, alot of looking - and have never read a single thing that made me question my first gut feeling that finally I had found the solution. Nor have I seen any evidence in my dogs that I made the wrong decision.

Easy Peasy Baby!


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## Nana52 (Apr 28, 2012)

No, not trying to talk myself out of it. Really. It just sounds reasonable to me. But I do worry about missing some vitamin and/or mineral they absolutely have to have, ya know, so felt I needed to do some studying first to get a handle on exactly what vitamins/minerals they DO need and how to best supply those things (without any intention of buying any from Dr. B). What I've managed to do it give myself an enormous headache, and I think my eyes have crossed a little. I think I'm going to read some more past/present posts here, as you guys seem to have it going on, and just go for it in the very near future. Thanks all.

With 10 dogs, how do you know which poop belongs to which dog? Just asking :tongue:


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

You don't need supplements with PMR. The meat supplies it. If you feed grocery store meat and no oily fish, you need a fish oil supplement. That's pretty much it.

I do feed a glucosamine supplement since I have one dog with really bad arthritis and I'm not sure how many chicken heads and feet would give them the right amount of glucosamine. But I am probably doing it for my own peace of mind, not for any real benefits to the dogs.


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

Nana52 said:


> No, not trying to talk myself out of it. Really. It just sounds reasonable to me. But I do worry about missing some vitamin and/or mineral they absolutely have to have, ya know, so felt I needed to do some studying first to get a handle on exactly what vitamins/minerals they DO need and how to best supply those things (without any intention of buying any from Dr. B). What I've managed to do it give myself an enormous headache, and I think my eyes have crossed a little. I think I'm going to read some more past/present posts here, as you guys seem to have it going on, and just go for it in the very near future. Thanks all.
> 
> With 10 dogs, how do you know which poop belongs to which dog? Just asking :tongue:


Dogs get their vit. and minerals from organs, and you don't even need to start them on organs for awhile. Think how a wolf lives in the wild, without disease or being hunted. They survive on eating meat bone and organs, they balance out over time because they sometimes don't eat everyday, or for several days.


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## liquid (Dec 28, 2011)

Youre making things way more complicated than they need to be. :tongue: Raw feeding is very simple. You get some meat, you weigh it, you give it to your dog. Easy peasy.
Come visit the raw board: Raw Feeding and post as many questions as you want, people are always willing to help out.

On supplements, you dont need any. Dont worry about vitamins/minerals. Dogs get everything they need from meat, bone, and organ.
I only supplement with salmon oil. 

KittyKat gave you a great link to get started.


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## Nana52 (Apr 28, 2012)

liquid said:


> Youre making things way more complicated than they need to be. :tongue: Raw feeding is very simple. You get some meat, you weigh it, you give it to your dog. Easy peasy.
> Come visit the raw board: Raw Feeding and post as many questions as you want, people are always willing to help out.
> 
> On supplements, you dont need any. Dont worry about vitamins/minerals. Dogs get everything they need from meat, bone, and organ.
> ...


I haven't "made it" anything yet ... not looking to complicate things, far from it. I'm just not one to dive in head first without trying to see things from different perspectives. I get that it's supposed to be easy, that you're not supposed to need supplements. But when you (the collective you, not you personally) say one thing and someone at another site says exactly the opposite, which is right. I just don't want to mess up and cause my dogs any harm, ya know? The internet is running over with information, some good, a lot not so much, just trying to figure out how one sifts through all the stuff and separates the good from the bad. I think I'm suffering from Too Much Information. Gonna try to shake it off and get to the nitty gritty of it all.

Thanks ever so.


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

Nana52 said:


> I haven't "made it" anything yet ... not looking to complicate things, far from it. I'm just not one to dive in head first without trying to see things from different perspectives. I get that it's supposed to be easy, that you're not supposed to need supplements. But when you (the collective you, not you personally) say one thing and someone at another site says exactly the opposite, which is right. I just don't want to mess up and cause my dogs any harm, ya know? The internet is running over with information, some good, a lot not so much, just trying to figure out how one sifts through all the stuff and separates the good from the bad. I think I'm suffering from Too Much Information. Gonna try to shake it off and get to the nitty gritty of it all.
> 
> Thanks ever so.


That's the problem with the internet, anyone can say anything good or bad about anything! Talk to people who actually have been feeding raw the right way, not the wrong way and you will see it is pretty darn uncomplicated. 

And there are so many raw feeding sites/forums, you really need to stick to just one because they will always contradict each other no matter what. Good Luck sifting through...


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Nana, I see your point. This was the first site I found and so I didn't have the conflicting information. I had heard of cooking for dogs and thought I might do that when I found this place.

However, I think this site has soooo many people who have been doing PMR for years. It's not all about what you read - alot of it is the successes you see. And here, there are many of them.

I know there are successes on other sites also. But I don't think you will find the depth on experience anywhere else on the internet as you find here. Some people here have been feeding raw for a decade or more. Liz's mentor has been feeding raw for 25 years. 

I am also a member of a couple of other raw feeding groups. The yahoo group is full of very nice people, and they all do everything different. Alot of them grind up a bunch of stuff, alot feed veggies, some do PMR, many cut the bones up little tiny. I was very glad I didn't see THAT group first because I would have been confused.

AND, I think I would have probably done it wrong, taking that kind of advice.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

i'm thinking you already know that feeding raw is how you want to go...minus the confusion of course...

and there are those who make it absolutely daunting....

the beauty of feeding raw is there is no one way. and there are only a few wrong ways....

for example. if all you ever feed your dog is chicken, your dog is going to lack nutrients.

feeding a dog in a healthy way is very much like feeding yourself in a healthy way, except we do with proteins (animal/fowl/fish) with dogs as we do with ourselves with a variety of fruits, veggies proteins, fats, etc.

we cannot possibly eat everything we need every day. we'd be built like a house. 

so we balance over time with our own bodies. one day, we eat salmon and kale, the next we might eat steak and broccoli, the next chicken and squash, etc.

this is how it goes with dogs.

we feed as many different animals and their parts as possible, along with fowl, game, fish....to put them into and keep them balanced.

every animal part offers a piece of the nutritional puzzle. 

every organ offers vitamins and minerals, both fat soluble and water soluble.

so today, for instance, my crew is getting lamb and chicken. tomorrow, they might get goat and elk. the next day they might get lamb and chicken again because that's how much i took out.

they get liver daily. liver is the 5% of the 10% of organs they eat.....they also get another organ daily. some people choose to feed organs once a week or several times a week. mine get theirs frozen and that kind of took a while because the one thing that does take time is getting to know your dog and being smarter than the dog. 

i think the biggest hurdle for you is not feeding raw. it's the bone thing. and that's one of those things that requires the word of tens of thousands of people around the world who feed raw...probably more than that....

that raw bones are as safe as anything can be safe....and that starting with chicken is probably the best way to go....


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

Hi Nana, 
Please stop looking to much. I was blessed to find another sheltie breeder who has fed prey model raw for over 25 years. She feeds 80-10-10 meat-bone and organ. She also does not vaccinate. She is totally a natural breeder. her dogs are healthy and lovely and that is what I wanted for mine. I can tell you I research things to death and was going nuts on whether to stay with good kibble - cook or feed raw. Well kibble is trying to imitate raw, cooking does the same we use better ingredients but then have to add back in all the nutrients we cooked out and add calcium and such because we are afraid to let our dogs be dogs and eat bones. From living examples of awesome raw fed dogs - generations of them and finding this site for support feeding raw is natural. My dogs have come full circle. My older ones are healthier and happier than ever, my teens are in lovely shape and growing beautifully, and my litter are fantastic. The babies grow evenly and are so much more content without these carb highs and lows. My pregnant moms are having easier pregnancies and deliveries. You can read and research all you want  but sometimes just going with what is working the best for many people you are in contact with is the way to go. Dogs survive kibble and canned but the absolutely thrive on raw. Mine so enjoy their bones I cannot imagine them living off kibble again - I feel so bad that I waited as long as I did. It was selfish - I knew better but because of my own fears and laziness I kept my dogs from eating species appropriate food that nourishes them correctly and satisfies their carnivorous little souls.  When you are ready just know there are many here who would feed nothing else because it is the absolute best for our tame little wolves.


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## Nana52 (Apr 28, 2012)

"every animal part offers a piece of the nutritional puzzle. every organ offers vitamins and minerals, both fat soluble and water soluble."

You know, that makes the most sense of anything I've read/heard in the past 2 months!!! 

"i think the biggest hurdle for you is not feeding raw. it's the bone thing."

Yeah, there is the bone thing, but I'm going to do my darnest to get past it.

"You can read and research all you want  but sometimes just going with what is working the best for many people you are in contact with is the way to go."

Okay. I'm taking a deep, calming breath. Putting away the books that are making me absolutely nuts! Seriously thinking about getting Kody's repeat lab done earlier than planned to be sure all is well (as well as it's gonna be as things stand now) with his liver and pancreas. That's my last excuse I think. You guys are the bom. Seriously!

Liz, I'm just curious. The only vaccination I get any more is rabies because it's required by law, can't even get a medical exemption for my dog with seizure disorder (idiots ... but that's another rant for another time). Is it not required in your state or you just disregard? My vet is such a stick-up-her-hiney type, wouldn't surprise me if she turned me in for not getting it.


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

Unless your going places and the Humane Society gets called to your house, you don't have to give your dog the vaccine...I give it to my dogs but they are licensed with the county and i take them up to Canada.

I would never give the vaccine to a dog with a seizure disorder, they could fine me all they want..


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

My vet will refuse to treat dogs that aren't vaccinated for rabies, since it is the law.


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## Nana52 (Apr 28, 2012)

xellil said:


> My vet will refuse to treat dogs that aren't vaccinated for rabies, since it is the law.


I haven't tested her on that yet, but it wouldn't surprise me if my vet did the same (did I mention she's a bit uptight?). She's pretty annoyed with me for not feeding kibble like she wants me to, but she'll get over it eventually (if I had a car, I swear I'd drive across the river to the holistic vet 175 miles away!!). I don't take them to the groomers or board them or anything. They never leave my yard/house except on leash with me on the other end. I do worry a bit about getting sick or injured (I'm no spring chicken, ya know) and needing to board them, but frankly I'm pretty much have to be in a coma for that to happen. My daughter would look after them for a day or two at least; after that, I'll either be dead or leaving against medical advise :wink:

Okay. I'm getting a bit off track from my original post. BTW, I just saw pork brain at my local grocery. Obviously I'm many moons away from anything like that, but what category does that fall under? Or is that something you would feed a dog raw?


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Brain is good!!! The more parts to an animal you can feed, the better because they all have different things. Feet and heads have glucosamine. Tripe has probiotics and enzymes. Etc.


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

I choose to disregard harmful rules. Signing waivers has worked for me so far. I don't take my dogs to day cares and groom my own dogs so I really don't worry about that. One day it will come down to a fight over the rabies but I am hoping that Washington begins to allow waivers before it comes to that. Rabies is the only legally required vaccine and as long as I can avoid it I will.  I am blessed by my vet in that we agree to disagree. He knows I will only do what is best and most holistic for my dogs and actually researches for the mildest most natural treatments when I do come in for something which is rare. We have been seeing the vet for my old boy recently as he has an abscess we cannot seem to access to clean out so more surgery for him but other than that I really don't go to the vet. I ma glad you are going to go for the raw Nana - i think you will be thrilled and in a few months I can just see your post saying you wish you had done it years ago.  You will learn to love the crunching of bones as it means your dog is eating the way he should, enjoying his food and cleaning teeth all at once. You will do great.


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## Nana52 (Apr 28, 2012)

Liz said:


> I choose to disregard harmful rules. Signing waivers has worked for me so far. I don't take my dogs to day cares and groom my own dogs so I really don't worry about that. One day it will come down to a fight over the rabies but I am hoping that Washington begins to allow waivers before it comes to that. Rabies is the only legally required vaccine and as long as I can avoid it I will.  I am blessed by my vet in that we agree to disagree. He knows I will only do what is best and most holistic for my dogs and actually researches for the mildest most natural treatments when I do come in for something which is rare. We have been seeing the vet for my old boy recently as he has an abscess we cannot seem to access to clean out so more surgery for him but other than that I really don't go to the vet. I ma glad you are going to go for the raw Nana - i think you will be thrilled and in a few months I can just see your post saying you wish you had done it years ago.  You will learn to love the crunching of bones as it means your dog is eating the way he should, enjoying his food and cleaning teeth all at once. You will do great.


Choosing to disregard ... luv it! I sure wish I had someone to hold my hand until if/when I learn to love the bone crunching thing. I guess I'll have to make do with some cyber hand holding. Give me strength hwell:


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

Well if it makes you feel better we are all here for you and my mentors are in Canada so my hand holding has been cyber hand holding also. It will be fine.


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## Donna Little (May 31, 2011)

Nana52 said:


> With 10 dogs, how do you know which poop belongs to which dog? Just asking :tongue:


Well, I don't see everyone pooping every day but I see enough of each dog pooping to know we're on the right track. 
After I read that I was thinking, "I am a one girl poop patrol." Is that a good thing in any way shape or form?? Hmmm... :wacko:
Hopefully you don't think anyone is "fussing" at you on here because they aren't. It's just that once you've fed your dogs raw for a while you'll wonder (like I do) why you ever questioned it. You did say something in one of your posts though that really hit it on the head as far as how I used to feel. Something about feeling responsible if you don't do it right. I know exactly what you mean. 
When I started I had a very elderly Chihuahua that was the absolute love of my life. His health was failing and I wanted so badly to make him better and decided to put him on raw. But at the same time I was terrified I would kill him with it and thought I wouldn't be able to live with myself if I was the cause of making him worse. As it turns out he has since passed away, but the last few months of his life he LOVED eating, which was a huge thing because in all the time he'd lived with me getting him to eat each meal was like a job. He hated to eat anything I'd ever offered him before. He did great on raw but his health and age were already in such a decline that I lost him last year. 
But, I have another Chihuahua that was knocking on deaths door a year ago last month and he's still going strong. I was told in May of 2011 that he might have a few weeks to a couple of months to live. I attribute him still being with me totally to his diet. He was like a different dog in literally a week after switching to raw.
Trust us, once you take the plunge, you'll get more and more comfortable with your choice. It took several months before I suddenly realized all of my dogs felt sooo much better and looked soooo much better. I've posted these pictures before but here are a couple of Toby, the Chihuahua I said almost died last year, before raw and a few month into it. I'd changed nothing else but his food. Well, other than cutting all of his meds in half. 















We're all rooting for you and will be here for you every step of the way. You'll find you have a great support system here.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Donna those are such astounding photos. It's a really powerful visual of what raw food can do.

i would be embarrassed to see my first posts on here. I hope they never come to light again. I was so scared but i had to make a change.


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## Donna Little (May 31, 2011)

xellil said:


> Donna those are such astounding photos. It's a really powerful visual of what raw food can do.
> 
> i would be embarrassed to see my first posts on here. I hope they never come to light again. I was so scared but i had to make a change.


I doubt I would want to re-read my first few posts either....


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## Nana52 (Apr 28, 2012)

Great pics, Donna. That's amazing. Hardly looks like the same dog.

And, no, I didn't think I was being fussed at. I know you're all trying to help me overcome my doubts and fears, for which I'm most grateful. As soon as I get Kody's lab work done in a couple of weeks, I'm gonna grow a pair and jump on board.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

whiteleo said:


> Unless your going places and the Humane Society gets called to your house, you don't have to give your dog the vaccine...I give it to my dogs but they are licensed with the county and i take them up to Canada.
> 
> I would never give the vaccine to a dog with a seizure disorder, they could fine me all they want..


i love how you put that, dear liz.....civil disobedience at its finest.

i too civilly disobey. i also don't put my dogs in day care nor do i board them.....

as far as my county is concerned, bubba is an illegal immigrant and malia, sadly, passed away.

my vets have said nothing to me.

donna..anyone who posts the trail of terror thread has license to use the word poop any which way you want.

as to your chi....that's what my malia looked like at five weeks. would that i would have known about raw then. incredible difference.

yeah, i wouldn't want anyone to read my newbie posts either or the emails to bill. oy. 

nana, you've already seen the cyber hand holding we are capable of because we've been down the kibble road, the home cooking road and now we've seen the light and walked right into it with raw.

my dogs have not received rabies in quite a while. until my vets say something, they will get no more vax......for malia, it's been six years, for bubba, it's been three, but he's only been vaccinated once and that was with puppy shots and one rabies...and that's that.
he's five now.

if they say something to me, i shall say, let me call you and we'll set it up.....and then i won't call.

either that or it's time for me to find a new vet. just because something is the 'law' doesn't make your vet part of the sheriff's posse. 

there are places who board with titres only and there are holistic boarding places, should this be the way you want to go.

but a dog with seizures? i would not vaccinate....


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## Donna Little (May 31, 2011)

No one gets vaccines any more at my house either. Well, I must admit that I updated the rabies on my 2 young ones when we have 50 freakin' foxes on the property but no more. 
My vet has never asked about vaccines and I'm there on a regular basis with my crew for one reason or the other. I pretty much refuse to bow down to anyone when it comes to my dogs. Civil obedience... Whateva.......


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## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

Nana, I was another one that was a bit nervous starting out. I read everything I could get my hands on and, I totally agree, it's really confusing. Thats why I giggled when reading your first post, that was me too, whizzing around from one end of the spectrum to the other, utterly beliving whatever I was reading at the time.
In the end, I got a good grip on myself, found this site and read it inside out. My deciding factor was that there were a few people on here, vet techs included, some had been feeding their dogs PMR for 10 years or more and their dogs were thriving and it was funny, these dogs were not dying from lack of vitamins or food poisoning or chocking. 
So, I gathered my balls together, took a huge leap of faith, gave the fingers to all the doubters in my life here and risked my dogs life by giving her food that everyone told me would kill her. 
So, it's nearly 3 years later. She's still here, lying under the desk right now actually. She had a complete blood panel in January, just to prove to my doubting vet that she is healthy, thriving, not lacking in any essential vitamins, great teeth and no blockages. 
So, listen to us here, we all had the same doubts, the same questions, and we all threw our faith into a bunch of strangers on the internet whom we have never met, and tell you what, it is one of the best things I have done in my life.
Do it, stick around, you will be me in 3 years time.
Oh, oh oh, I have to mention this. I'm the type of person who believes that if you are good at something, you don't have to tell people.
I have had 3 dogs now, all converted to PMR. All by myself, the legend I obviously am.  And its only because people have seen the condition of Mollie. I don't preach (unless they ask me and I've had a vodka or two lol), but they look with their own eyes and now they are total believers.


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## Nana52 (Apr 28, 2012)

I think I'm gonna try some of that civil disobedience myself. Kody's only had 1 seizure since August '11 (whether due to giving an herbal remedy while oh so slowly deceasing phenobarbital or stopping any/all grains or pure dumb luck .... I have no idea); prior to that he was having at least 1 every 4 weeks, often more ... so I'm trying really hard not to rock the boat! The odds of coming to contact with a rabid animal where I live are absurdly low IMO. If she gives me too much grief .... well, I'll just have to figure out a way to get to a different vet if need be. In any case, I've already told them I'm not giving any other vaccinations so they can save their reminders :tongue:

Sold my Dr. Becker book today .... don't ever want to see that thing again. Let it give somebody else a headache!


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## Stinky (May 31, 2012)

> Seriously. What did you read, what did you hear, what did you see ...... who, what, when, and where ..... that made you go, enough of the BS, this is what I feel is right and what I'm going to do? I'm at my wits end (not a long trip).


I switched to raw because my dog wasn't really all that into his kibble (Wellness Core). I looked up information on better kibbles that were available locally and ran into raw - again. I had been interested before but I thought it would be expensive. When I realized it wasn't (and that it could even cost less), I knew I wanted to do it. 

I'm pretty paranoid about the ratios of meat/bone/organ as well as not providing the right nutrients. I've been on raw for almost a month now I think and I'm still scared I'm going to kill my dog. However, I think of it the way someone else mentioned - humans don't eat a balanced meal every day. Heck, some of them eat McDonalds and drink alcohol all the time and they're still alive (okay, not healthy, but alive). Nutrition, either human or dog, is not rocket science. That's the one thought that comforts me the most. I'm shooting just to feed a nice variety and to meet the guideline of 80/10/10. *Deep breath*...not rocket science...I'm still having to remind myself of that. 

I also have a question - do you guys think it's important to vaccinate an outdoor animal for rabies that could come in contact with a rabid animal? What about distemper? I'd like to skip it if I can, but I'm also worried about legal crap. The vet has never once mentioned vaccines.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Stinky said:


> I also have a question - do you guys think it's important to vaccinate an outdoor animal for rabies that could come in contact with a rabid animal? What about distemper? I'd like to skip it if I can, but I'm also worried about legal crap. The vet has never once mentioned vaccines.


yes I do. personally, though, i think my dogs are immune because they've both probably had several rabies shots. If I could legally titer and get out of it, I would.

Not distemper, though. I would be more concerned about rabies where i live. There are rabies-carrying animals around here and rabies cases off and on.


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