# Any suggestions???? Help Please



## Yancey's Mom (Jan 29, 2010)

Hi everyone, I live in a very rural, small town in the south. I am having a terrible time finding dog food that I think is good for my dogs. I was currently feeding Enhance and all of my dogs are doing great on this food. I went to purchase feed yesterday and was told that a large chain store had bought the company out and the weren't going to be able to get it anymore.. So here I go again. I have 3 adult dogs, one small breed and 2 large breed. I have a Golden puppy. I can get food when I travel out of town, but sometimes I forget and don't realize that I am in need of food. The brands that I can get locally are: Diamond, SportMix, Purina One, Purina puppy chow, Pedigree, sometimes Iams and always   OLE ROY UGH UGH. Does anyone else have this problem? And if so what should I do??????????


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## Unosmom (May 3, 2009)

Can you order online? 
Theres several websites where you can sign up for their newsletter and you'll receive coupons in your mail. 
Some of the sites include:
Pet Food Online | Dog & Cat Supplies & Products | PetFoodDirect.com

Dog Food | Cat Food | Bird Food | HeartyPet.com

Dog Food | Cat Food | FREE Shipping over $50!

(for pet food station, you can use a coupon code: WELCOME - at checkout for $10 off.


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## cast71 (Sep 16, 2010)

Hi, You said you can get Diamond. Can you get Diamond Naturals? If so, its ok and it wont break the bank. Stay away from regular diamond and everything else you mentioned. Do you have a tractor supply store near you?


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## buddy97 (Mar 29, 2010)

you may have already checked the store locators for various manufacturers, but sometimes there are retailers people never realized carried what they were looking for.

for example, all these stores in northern AL carry Canidae (so they probably carry other premium brands as well.) none of these may be very close to you. i was just using canidae as an example.

Garvin Feed & Seed 
2215 Homes Ave 
Huntsville, AL 35816 
256 534-5637

Jessica?s Designer Pet Apparel 
12090 County Line Rd. Ste. N 
Madison, AL 35758 
256 851-9568

Complete Care Animal Hospital 
6727 Highway 431 S Unit C&D 
Owens Cross Roads, AL 35763 
256 551-1111

Hampton Cove Animal Hosptial 
6425 HIGHWAY 431 SOUTH 
HAMPTON COVE, AL 35763 
256 533-3385

Annette's Pampered Pet Pawlor 
23863 AL Hwy 251 
Toney, AL 35773 
256 233-1144

PET DEPOT 
22069 Hwy 72 East Suite I 
Athens, AL 35613 
256 387-7765

Allsport, Inc 
2608 Beltline Rd SW 
Decatur, AL 35601 
256-355-9706

Saddle Rack Farm & Pet Supply 
22806 Sandlin Road 
Elkmont, AL 35620 
256-423-7336

Pet Products 
1834 Coleman Rd 
Arab, AL 35016 
256 778-4081

Heads Up Ranch 
320 SUNNY BROOK FARM RD 
GUNTERSVILLE, AL 35976 
256 582-5715


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## dogcrazy (Oct 18, 2010)

Boy, I can sympathize....I live 60 miles from "civilization" myself. I just have myself trained to buy 4 bags at a time and put dog food on the list when I open the last bag. 

I just bought some large bags of dry dog food online with free shipping at ww.petfoodstation.com

Their website is a nightmare. I had an awful time getting the selections to show up in my "shopping cart". But once I checked out and registered an account on the site it solved the problem.

I love online shopping. No schlepping the bags myself!!

Carol in AZ


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## saltydogs (Oct 31, 2010)

Yancey's Mom said:


> Hi everyone, I live in a very rural, small town in the south. I am having a terrible time finding dog food that I think is good for my dogs. I was currently feeding Enhance and all of my dogs are doing great on this food. I went to purchase feed yesterday and was told that a large chain store had bought the company out and the weren't going to be able to get it anymore.. So here I go again. I have 3 adult dogs, one small breed and 2 large breed. I have a Golden puppy. I can get food when I travel out of town, but sometimes I forget and don't realize that I am in need of food. The brands that I can get locally are: Diamond, SportMix, Purina One, Purina puppy chow, Pedigree, sometimes Iams and always   OLE ROY UGH UGH. Does anyone else have this problem? And if so what should I do??????????


If you can get SportMix you can also get Pro Pac which is a step up. Both are made by the same company which also makes Earthborn Holistic. Pro Pac Adult Chunk and Pro Pac High Performance are seriously good foods, especially for $32 a bag. Pro Pac is also made in an EU certified plant so the ingredients are human grade but the company does not mention that.

Pro Pac is a great food and a great value. 

Don't let the people on here try to convince you to spend all kinds of money on Orijen or some other trendy food because they are not worth the money. Of the ones you mentioned above SportMix in the light red bag is just fine as well but Pro Pac is better. All natural, proteinated minerals, no synth Vitamin K, just a solid well made food.


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## luvMyBRT (Mar 8, 2010)

saltydogs said:


> Don't let the people on here try to convince you to spend all kinds of money on Orijen or some other trendy food because they are not worth the money.


Ahhh yeah. I don't really think that Orijen and Acana foods are "trendy and not worth the money". They are actually stellar foods that are the best of the best in MANY peoples opinions (mine included). They are also made by a reliable company that (as of now) is trustworthy.

But...thanks for sharing YOUR opinion.


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## saltydogs (Oct 31, 2010)

saraj2878 said:


> Ahhh yeah. I don't really think that Orijen and Acana foods are "trendy and not worth the money". They are actually stellar foods that are the best of the best in MANY peoples opinions (mine included). They are also made by a reliable company that (as of now) is trustworthy.
> 
> But...thanks for sharing YOUR opinion.


If the company is trustworthy why doesn't mention on that slick video that the chicken meal, which is where most of the protein comes from, is actually obtained from a supplier in the US?

It is a waste of money and many dogs that are in competition or training do very poorly on it. I can see how people get suckered in but it is a rip-off.


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## luvMyBRT (Mar 8, 2010)

So your suggesting Pro Pac?? Where in the Adult formula the second ingredient is GROUND YELLOW CORN. Yeah...that's a winner! 

ETA:

Adult Chunk Formula Ingredients:
Chicken Meal, Ground Yellow Corn, Chicken Fat (preserved with mixed Tocopherols, a source of Vitamin E), Rice Flour, Dried Beet Pulp, Natural Flavoring, Flaxseed, Yeast Culture, Salt, Potassium Chloride, Choline Chloride, DL-Methionine Hydroxy Analogue, L-Lysine, Vitamin E Supplement, D-Activated Animal Sterol (source of Vitamin D3), Vitamin A Acetate, Niacin, D-Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement, Thiamine Mononitrate, Ascorbic Acid, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B6), Folic Acid, Manganous Oxide, Ferrous Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Calcium Iodate, Zinc Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Magnesium Proteinate, Copper Proteinate.


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## tem_sat (Jun 20, 2010)

saltydogs said:


> Pro Pac is a great food and a great value[...]Of the ones you mentioned above SportMix in the light red bag is just fine as well but Pro Pac is better. All natural, proteinated minerals, no synth Vitamin K, just a solid well made food.


Chicken Meal, Ground Yellow Corn, Chicken Fat (preserved with mixed Tocopherols, a source of Vitamin E), Dried Beet Pulp, Natural Flavoring, Flaxseed, Yeast Culture, Salt, Potassium Chloride, Choline Chloride, DL-Methionine Hydroxy Analogue, L-Lysine, Vitamin E Supplement, D-Activated Animal Sterol (source of Vitamin D3), Vitamin A Acetate, Niacin, D-Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement, Thiamine Mononitrate, Ascorbic Acid, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B6), Folic Acid, Manganous Oxide, Ferrous Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Calcium Iodate, Zinc Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Magnesium Proteinate, Copper Proteinate.

Why is this a "great value?"


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## luvMyBRT (Mar 8, 2010)

saltydogs said:


> If the company is trustworthy why doesn't mention on that slick video that the chicken meal, which is where most of the protein comes from, is actually obtained from a supplier in the US?


Oh really? Where is the link that states this information that you claim as fact? I'd like to see the actual proof.

This was taken directly off the Orijen website:

"Our fresh regional ingredients include free-run chicken, turkey & ducks, whole Grade A eggs, free range wild boar, bison and heritage pork, grass-fed lamb, and a variety of wild-caught freshwater & saltwater fish—all farmed or fished within our region, passed ‘fit for human consumption’ and delivered FRESH TO OUR DOOR. Each & every day!
Our focus is on ingredients that are sustainably farmed or fished WITHIN OUR REGION – by people we know & trust, and delivered to us FRESH (never frozen) each day."




> I can see how people get suckered in but it is a rip-off.


Looks to me as if YOUR the one getting suckered in....:wink:


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## saltydogs (Oct 31, 2010)

saraj2878 said:


> So your suggesting Pro Pac?? Where in the Adult formula the second ingredient is GROUND YELLOW CORN. Yeah...that's a winner!
> 
> ETA:
> 
> ...


I was waiting for the typical internet label reader reaction to corn. 

Fact: There is not one peer reviewed study that says corn is any more of an allergen than rice or potato. In fact the Cornell study shows corn to be superior to all other grains. Corn is far more nutritious than rice, barley or oats and is used in far lessor amounts in dog foods. Hardworking dogs do best on it. The science is clear on corn. The internet is not. 

Look all you want, but other than crack pot websites with absolutely no scientific credibility at all, you will not find a major university bad mouth corn. Actually the contrary is true. A quality animal-based food that uses corn actually uses far less than one with rice. 

Corn does wonders for hard-keepers and dogs in competition.

You will also find that corn is just as digestible as rice when it is gelatinized properly but has more to offer, including more stable insulin levels than rice or potato.


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## saltydogs (Oct 31, 2010)

saraj2878 said:


> Oh really? Where is the link that states this information that you claim as fact? I'd like to see the actual proof.
> 
> This was taken directly off the Orijen website:
> 
> ...


No you are. It doesn't mention Chicken Meal. In fact read the letter below from Bonnie at Orijen. The meat slurries that you see on that video are all water and contribute very little to total protein.

"Derek, 

Chicken meal is a good example. Although there are producers of chicken meal in Canada, none are capable of producing from chickens passed fit for human consumption and as such no Canadian chicken meal meets the European Union Pet Food Regulation 1774. At present, Canadian chicken meal is made with spent hens (from egg laying operations) as well as chickens that have died, but are not processed in a federally inspected facility, or were not passed as ‘fit for human consumption’ by the Government of Canada. 

So, while our focus is “fresh and regional” our primary objective is always to achieve the highest standard in nutrition, palatability and food safety. Until chicken meal from human grade chickens is available in Canada, Champion will source its chicken meal from one of 2 USA chicken processors, whose chickens and facility are USDA certified, and who have the appropriate European Union qualifications (EU 1774).

ORIJEN is made with special 'low ash' chicken meal. This ingredient is prepared by removing the bones before cooking, which creates a very high protein and low ash ingredient. The result is a moderated amount of calcium and phosphorus in the final ORIJEN kibble. There are definitely different qualities of meat meals out there, just as there are many different grades of meat for you to choose from at your local grocers. If you start with ingredients that are mostly muscle meat (as is the case with our meat meals), this results in a quality meal that is very high in protein. most of the content of our meals will be muscle meat"

Best Regards,

Bonnie
Customer Care
Champion Petfoods LP
p 780.939.6888
f 780.939.6858


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## cast71 (Sep 16, 2010)

> Fact: There is not one peer reviewed study that says corn is any more of an allergen than rice or potato


Why is it that I've seen many dogs with allergies, become better on grain free diets? Once switched back to grain inclusive diets, there allergies mysteriously came back? My vet no longer recommends prescription Science Diet, for dogs with allergies. She recommends her clients to go to tractor supply and buy TOTW.


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## luvMyBRT (Mar 8, 2010)

saltydogs said:


> I was waiting for the typical internet label reader reaction to corn.
> 
> Fact: There is not one peer reviewed study that says corn is any more of an allergen than rice or potato. In fact the Cornell study shows corn to be superior to all other grains. Corn is far more nutritious than rice, barley or oats and is used in far lessor amounts in dog foods. Hardworking dogs do best on it. The science is clear on corn. The internet is not.
> 
> ...


Wow. Why would a carnivore need corn in its diet?? Why are dogs that are RAW and GRAIN FREE KIBBLE fed so healthy and vibrant when there IS no corn in their diet? I don't think that wolves in the wild are looking for corn fields when they are hungry! LOL! 

Where is the scientific data that proves that working dogs do better when eating corn? This is just silly..... 

And WHY oh why does the corn (and rice) have to be gelatinized for a dog to utilize it? Doesn't that right there tell you something??? Why is a dogs poop who is fed kibble containing tons of useless ingredients (corn, fillers, etc) so huge? Maybe because it's body can't utilize grains? BINGO! :wink: 

So you just keep telling yourself that corn is good for dogs and I'll just keep feeding my dogs an appropriate carnivorous diet of meat, bones, and organs. I'll also keep recommending Orijen and Acana to those feeding kibble as they are FAR SUPERIOR to Pro Pac or whatever it was....

Oi vey. 

Not wanting to turn this into a raw vs. kibble debate so I won't post again out of respect to others. :smile:


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

saraj2878 said:


> And WHY oh why does the corn (and rice) have to be gelatinized for a dog to utilize it? Doesn't that right there tell you something??? Why is a dogs poop who is fed kibble containing tons of useless ingredients (corn, fillers, etc) so huge? Maybe because it's body can't utilize grains? BINGO! :wink:




Gosh, don't you know anything?! Wolves have been processing their food for millions of years, just go look! they have blenders, ovens, beaters....wait... oh.... no...
I'm getting reality confused with some really twisted dream I once had after consuming a very large amount of alcohol.



Nope. Dogs do best on a carnivore diet. As it stands, Orijen and Evo come closer than other foods in getting as close to that in kibble form. 


As festive as corn dog poop may be, I think I'll pass on that, thanks.


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## xxshaelxx (Mar 8, 2010)

Hmm...I'm an omnivore. The last time I ate corn, it came back out looking just as solid as it went down the hatch. So, if an omnivore can't eat it, why would a carnivore be able to?

And I'm kind of at a loss as to why it looks bad on Champion's part that they get their chicken meal from a source in the US? I'm not big and hip and knowledgable on the kibble market, but I would think that I would want a food with all of its sources originating in the US...and not someplace like China.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

CorgiPaws said:


> Gosh, don't you know anything?! Wolves have been processing their food for millions of years, just go look! they have blenders, ovens, beaters....wait... oh.... no...
> I'm getting reality confused with some really twisted dream I once had after consuming a very large amount of alcohol.
> 
> 
> ...


Bahahaha, confetti-crap! 


Corn vs. oatmeal or brown rice? If one were to choose a grain....it seems kidna like a no brainer to me which one has more to offer...


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## saltydogs (Oct 31, 2010)

Corn In Pet Foods | GREATDANELADY.COM


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

saltydogs said:


> Corn In Pet Foods | GREATDANELADY.COM


I've been watching Linda giving very poor nutritional advice for 10 years. She is in Eagle Pack's back pocket and has been pushing this very mediocre food for a long time. She pushes enzyme and probiotic supplements which are not needed by a dog on a proper diet. She pushes an omnivore diet to be fed to our carnivore dogs. How silly!! How does anyone take this woman seriously?

Stick around SD, you will learn a lot here. :smile:

*ETA:* You need to find sources other than kibble company promotional material for the basis of your arguments.


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## saltydogs (Oct 31, 2010)

RawFedDogs said:


> I've been watching Linda giving very poor nutritional advice for 10 years. She is in Eagle Pack's back pocket and has been pushing this very mediocre food for a long time. She pushes enzyme and probiotic supplements which are not needed by a dog on a proper diet. She pushes an omnivore diet to be fed to our carnivore dogs. How silly!! How does anyone take this woman seriously?
> 
> Stick around SD, you will learn a lot here. :smile:
> 
> *ETA:* You need to find sources other than kibble company promotional material for the basis of your arguments.


Listen bud, I have read all the crap on here and all the supposed experts pushing people to waste money. I have seen people on here feeding puppies just raw chicken legs. People just waste money on needless supplements for house pets.

I don't need any help I have whelped over 20 litters of pointers and own and co-own 20 right now, several have been to Westminster.

As far as that link goes, I have had the same experience with rip off foods over the years, oh by the way I am a medical doctor to boot.

So now I dare you, find one bit of scientific evidence that corn is an inferior part of a meat-based kibble. Also find one piece of evidence that raw feeding is better. I like throwing meat in the bowl too but its does not make any dog live longer, run faster or look better. In fact, raw fed dogs look worse than dogs on a balanced diet.

So go screw yourself with that comment. Meet me in NYC this year and see how many $20,000 show dogs are eating Bil Jac. You would be quite surprised.


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

Obviously you have a inferioity complex because you know your feeding your dogs crap! You probably get a kick back from the dogfood co. for feeding that stuff to your show dogs right? Thought so! If your a medical docter, I certainly would stop going to you because you aren't keeping up with your studies! Good docters continue to learn.


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## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

saltydogs said:


> In fact, raw fed dogs look worse than dogs on a balanced diet.


This isn't really pertaining to dogs persay, but before I got my dog, I had two cats who were fed a diet containing corn.. and they were SO itchy. I went to Orijen, and they did get better, shinier fur, not so itchy, less ear infections.. I went full raw, and never looked back. They now have zero health problems and look great!

When I got my puppy two months ago (sheltie, 4 months old now) I fed him raw from the get go. To say he doesn't look as good as a kibble fed dog is absurd. He has the softest, shiniest fur I have EVER seen on a long furred dog.


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## luvMyBRT (Mar 8, 2010)

saltydogs said:


> So go screw yourself with that comment. Meet me in NYC this year and see how many $20,000 show dogs are eating Bil Jac. You would be quite surprised.


See?? Now your just getting plain rude. So inappropriate......and your a Dr.?? YIKES! 

Sounds like someone is getting a bit defensive seeing that they may be wrong....:wink:


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## saltydogs (Oct 31, 2010)

bishopthesheltie said:


> This isn't really pertaining to dogs persay, but before I got my dog, I had two cats who were fed a diet containing corn.. and they were SO itchy. I went to Orijen, and they did get better, shinier fur, not so itchy, less ear infections.. I went full raw, and never looked back. They now have zero health problems and look great!
> 
> When I got my puppy two months ago (sheltie, 4 months old now) I fed him raw from the get go. To say he doesn't look as good as a kibble fed dog is absurd. He has the softest, shiniest fur I have EVER seen on a long furred dog.


Take your Sheltie to agility or herding trials and see what the top dogs eat. Your dog would pass out. I have seen dogs fed improper diets go into extertional hypoglycemia in less than 15 mins of activity. Some die. Many are on grain-free diets that cannot support much in the way of physical activity. I know many nutritionists that wish they could be corn back into the diet but because of the corn myth just can't. 

Its is good to add raw, but don't kid yourself thinking you can duplicate a good dry food. You can't. If you use a complete raw food that is great but you are just wasting money.

I also laugh when I hear people talk about wolves and coyotes. I don't think anyone on here has seen a coyote rip ears of corn of the stalk like I have or eat wild oats all day. Moreover, wolves and coyotes would be quite happy to get a meat-based kibble every night rather than going a week without eating, mostly maggot & worm infested rotting meat. Don't romance yourself about the notion of "prey diets" and "species specific" diets. Its all a gimmic.

If you don't believe me go to any agility, coursing, tracking or field trial event and watch a thoroughly conditioned dog perform. Your eyes will roll when you see an English Pointer run in front of a horse in 90 degree heat for well over an hour that eats Black Gold, which is about 50 cents a lb.

Your wallet's eyes might roll as well.

Do this, look at the best dogs in the country for your breed and email the breeder and see what they feed.

Not one will feed raw totally raw, they might add green tripe or liver, and no one will feed Orijen, Acana, Evo or any of those.

Then you can argue with them that they don't know what they are doing.


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## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

My dog's breeder feeds Orijen and her dogs aren't conformation champions.. they are both working herding dogs and got second in the Alberta Kennel Club agility in the height class.

The only reason she even said she doesn't feed raw is because of time constraints and having so many.. but her dogs are fed a grain free kibble and run hours and hours per day.\

By the way.. I fully intend on getting my pup into agility when the time comes.. but as I said, he is only four months.

As it is he can go on a five km run and when we get back, do sprinting runs around the firepit in the backyard for another hour :biggrin:

Even if you don't support raw, you can hardly say that grain should be a LARGE percentage of a carnivorous animal's diet. In that food you recommended it is the second ingredient. I have no problem giving my dog table scraps that include grains, but I'd say it makes up less than 3% of his diet.


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## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

Oh and wolves would be happy to get a kibble.. because it TASTES good. Dog food wouldn't sell if dogs wouldn't eat it. It's sprayed with animal digest or animal fat to appeal to the dog.

Dogs don't inherently know and eat what is healthy.. my dog ate a box of donuts last night and had diarrhea from hell.

Edit- the breeder I got my dog from also does competitive flyball, although I am not sure how much activity it is, never seen it before!


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

Ummmm....many dogs get fed quality kibble and raw, or just raw, that are winning in the showring. I live with one of the hounds who won his breed last year at Westminster, and he eats raw  And he looks a heck of a lot better when he does!


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## xxshaelxx (Mar 8, 2010)

saltydogs said:


> Do this, look at the best dogs in the country for your breed and email the breeder and see what they feed.


OH! I found one:

Spellcast Naturally Raised Border Collies

And another!

Aniak Siberians | Quality without Compromise - California, U.S.A. Siberian Husky Puppies available.
(read the results. They're quite interesting!)



By the way, my dogs are fed raw, and they play for pretty much 10 hours of the day. The only time they sleep for a long period of time with no play is while I'm sleeping. They certainly play a lot more than they ever did when they were fed kibble.

Oh, let's not forget to mention Rannmiller's dogs, who pretty much go on five mile jogs every morning. She brought her dobie over for a play session with my two, and oh my dog, did they play! They would have continued to play like made for HOURS if we'd let them.




Oh, and...why is it that you look on any breeder's website and they don't list what they feed unless they feed raw, and those that do feed raw are so adamant about it that they need to go into detail about every benefit it has had for their dog? Why is it that you don't hear about these dogs on corn-based kibbles, yet everyone and their mother who feeds a higher protein, low carb, corn free diet shouts it to the world? Speak to any raw feeder about raw and they will advocate to the high heavens about it. Speak to any Orijen or Acana feeder, and they will shout to the high heavens about it.

However...speak to a kibble representative, and they're advocate to the high heavens about their food.......


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5 (Feb 11, 2010)

saltydogs said:


> No you are. It doesn't mention Chicken Meal. In fact read the letter below from Bonnie at Orijen. The meat slurries that you see on that video are all water and contribute very little to total protein.
> 
> "Derek,
> 
> ...


saltydogs what happened to your old account> you used to be a powerful contributor on here...if im not mistaken you're the guy with the weimrners. you seem a lot les knowledgeable now, then you ever were. I remember your dogs didnt d so well on orijen so I can see why you wouldnt reccomend it, but why are you reccomending corn foods....

also why are you making multiple accounts


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## luvMyBRT (Mar 8, 2010)

saltydogs said:


> Take your Sheltie to agility or herding trials and see what the top dogs eat. Your dog would pass out.


This is so ridicluous! Are you kidding me? Their dog would pass out....LOL.



> Its is good to add raw, but don't kid yourself thinking you can duplicate a good dry food.


Yeah...it's good to add raw because it is what nature intended for a carnivore to eat!! You can't duplicate a good dry food??!....LOL! That's the whole point of feeding a grain free kibble or a RAW diet....to get AWAY from terrible kibbles that contain corn, by products and fillers that cause so many dogs numerous health problems.



> Moreover, wolves and coyotes would be quite happy to get a meat-based kibble every night rather than going a week without eating, mostly maggot & worm infested rotting meat.


Well hell yeah! If I could just sit on my butt and eat McDonalds all day that would be awesome! I mean don't you think a wolf would choose to not have to hunt in order to eat??? Does that mean it's an appropriate and healthy diet? NO!



> Don't romance yourself about the notion of "prey diets" and "species specific" diets. Its all a gimmic.


Now this really has me laughing!!! So what your telling us is that NATURE got it all wrong? Wow! That's good to know! So when all the wolves start dying off we will all know it's because they don't have any corn in their diet!!! :biggrin:




> Do this, look at the best dogs in the country for your breed and email the breeder and see what they feed.


Actually one of the TOP Black Russian Terrier breeders out there feeds a raw diet. She has said that she has seen so many problems in this breed (and dogs in general) since kibble has been around. Her BRT dogs are top winners in conformation, agility, etc. and are still competing when they are 10+ years old. 



> Not one will feed raw totally raw, they might add green tripe or liver, and no one will feed Orijen, Acana, Evo or any of those.


Well this is totally FALSE. Where are you coming up with this stuff?????

Thanks for all the laughs!! :tongue:


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## saltydogs (Oct 31, 2010)

"Speak to any Orijen or Acana feeder, and they will shout to the high heavens about it"

This is called "cognitive dissonance". After spending up to $65 for 28lbs of dog food, or $3 -5 dollars lb for a raw complete diet, many people create biases without any evidence that it was worth it. Sometimes people create this bias even when they have evidence it was not worth it.

As for Pro Pac Performance being "corn-based" it is not. The fact that ground corn is the second ingredient is almost meaningless. You have really no way of knowing how much is in there without the formula. Would you feel better if the second ingredient was rice, the third oats and the fourth corn?

Give the very high calorie content, about 575 calories per 4 ounces, your dog would eat much less grain on this food than on the run of the mill kibble. Your dog would also eat slightly less carbohydrate on Pro Pac than if you feed Orijen.

That is why corn is so good, assuming it follows a protein MEAL of some sort.


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

saltydogs said:


> Listen bud, I have read all the crap on here and all the supposed experts pushing people to waste money. I have seen people on here feeding puppies just raw chicken legs. People just waste money on needless supplements for house pets.


You may have seen all that somewhere on the internet but not here. You may see suggestions to feed chicken legs IN THE BEGINNING for newly switched puppies, yes, but not as a perminent diet.



> I don't need any help I have whelped over 20 litters of pointers and own and co-own 20 right now, several have been to Westminster.


Yeah, I've seen tons of breeders like you who have fed their puppies Purina Puppy Chow for 30 years and never had a problem. The big problem is that they have never fed anything else nor have they studied canine nutrition to learn anything at all.



> As far as that link goes, I have had the same experience with rip off foods over the years, oh by the way I am a medical doctor to boot.


Which link? The link you gave to Linda's site? I don't believe you are a medical doctor. The medical doctors I know don't talk like you do.



> Also find one piece of evidence that raw feeding is better.


Sometimes you just have to look at things SD. You look at the evidence and decide 2 + 2 = 4. Dogs are carnivores. There are very few people that argue that fact. Carnivores eat meat, bones, and organs. Carnivores do NOT eat corn, wheat, barley, or any other plant. Meat, bones, and organs. Thats it.



> I like throwing meat in the bowl too but its does not make any dog live longer, run faster or look better.


Actually it does. If you had ever done it, you would know that.



> In fact, raw fed dogs look worse than dogs on a balanced diet.


A PMR diet IS a balanced diet for a canine. If it wasn't, wolves would not have thrived for millions of years. If you thiknk raw fed dogs look worse than dogs on a highly over cooked cereal with close to 50% carbohydrates you are showing us just how little you really do know. Those of us who feed our dogs a PMR diet know beyond the shadow of a diet that your statement is so wrong as to be rediculous.



> So go screw yourself with that comment.


We don't make comments like that here. We are too intellegent and too capable of winning arguments without having to resort to such diversions. I suggest you keep your comments to the discussion.



> Meet me in NYC this year and see how many $20,000 show dogs are eating Bil Jac. You would be quite surprised.


What does Bil Jac have to do with anything?


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

saltydogs said:


> I know many nutritionists that wish they could be corn back into the diet but because of the corn myth just can't.


Name one. 



> Its is good to add raw, but don't kid yourself thinking you can duplicate a good dry food.


We are already feeding a diet that has proven to us that is FAR superior to any dry food on the market so why would we want to duplicate it?



> If you use a complete raw food that is great but you are just wasting money.


Not even close. Show me a nutritionist that doesn't work for a dog food company that will say highly processed over cooked cereal is superior to fresh whole foods for any animal on earth including humans and dogs.



> I also laugh when I hear people talk about wolves and coyotes. I don't think anyone on here has seen a coyote rip ears of corn of the stalk like I have or eat wild oats all day.


I don't believe you have. You are lying through your teeth.



> Moreover, wolves and coyotes would be quite happy to get a meat-based kibble every night rather than going a week without eating, mostly maggot & worm infested rotting meat.


You left out the choice of getting good fresh meat daily like our dogs do. :smile: Which one would they choose then? I think we both know the answer to that, don't we, SD? :smile:



> Don't romance yourself about the notion of "prey diets" and "species specific" diets. Its all a gimmic.


It's not a gimmic. It's nature. Every animal on earth is provided a proper diet and a way to get it. With canines its meat, bones, and organs. Nature got it right. If it hadn't wolves/dogs/coyotes would be extince by now.



> Do this, look at the best dogs in the country for your breed and email the breeder and see what they feed.


I have, they feed a PMR diet. :smile:



> Not one will feed raw totally raw, they might add green tripe or liver, and no one will feed Orijen, Acana, Evo or any of those.


Do you even own a dog? In what way is any kibble superior to a PMR diet? I thought you were a doctor. If you really were, you would know better.



> Then you can argue with them that they don't know what they are doing.


Don't have to argue with them, just have to show them. :biggrin:


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## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

Saying a dog does better on a crappy cheap diet is like saying humans do better on mcdonalds or doritos and coke than on a diet of lean meats, whole grains and lots of veggies and fruits.. it's just.. uninformed and completely wrong. The dog may do FINE but will always look and feel better on a species specific diet... in this case, meat, bone and organs with little to no veg or grain, or a high quality, high protein and grain free kibble.


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## luvMyBRT (Mar 8, 2010)

saltydogs said:


> or $3 -5 dollars lb for a raw complete diet, many people create biases without any evidence that it was worth it. Sometimes people create this bias even when they have evidence it was not worth it.


Once again this just shows how little you know about a raw diet. I don't spend that much at all. On average I spend about .70 cents a pound. And that's feeding an appropriate and complete raw diet MILES above a diet of Pro Pac.


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## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

And to complain about anything good being overpriced and a ripoff (even though raw is very cheap!!).. wow. Most people here will do the best they can for their dog within their budget and means. A shame more people don't care.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

SD, do you work for ProPac lol?


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## xxshaelxx (Mar 8, 2010)

Here's a good example of what raw has done for my dogs.

I've seen so many pictures of Siberian Huskies (even videos) that show large tufts of fur ready to come out, ready to be shed, all dogs that were on a kibble diet. I've even seen them in real life.

Twice a year, Siberian Huskies blow their coats. My dogs are in their second season of blowing their coats right now, getting ready for winter. I have not seen a single tuft of fur ready to come out. I can brush them and be done in five minutes and have a pile about a QUARTER of which I've seen brushed off of Sibes in videos in about the same time or LESS. Therefore, I can only come to the conclusion that they are shedding a TON less than they ever would have had they been on kibble. I had a border collie/black lab/husky/wolf mix when I was a kid. He shed twice as much as BOTH of my dogs put together. Oh, and he had giant tufts of fur that you could visually see, ready to come out.

Want more good examples?

Success Stories | Prey Model Raw

There you go.


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## xxshaelxx (Mar 8, 2010)

meggels said:


> SD, do you work for ProPac lol?


That's what I was thinking! XP


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5 (Feb 11, 2010)

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> saltydogs what happened to your old account> you used to be a powerful contributor on here...if im not mistaken you're the guy with the weimrners. you seem a lot les knowledgeable now, then you ever were. I remember your dogs didnt d so well on orijen so I can see why you wouldnt reccomend it, but why are you reccomending corn foods....
> 
> also why are you making multiple accounts


dont ignore my post salty....


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5 (Feb 11, 2010)

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> saltydogs what happened to your old account> you used to be a powerful contributor on here...if im not mistaken you're the guy with the weimrners. you seem a lot les knowledgeable now, then you ever were. I remember your dogs didnt d so well on orijen so I can see why you wouldnt reccomend it, but why are you reccomending corn foods....
> 
> also why are you making multiple accounts


dont ignore my post saltydogs...


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## SamWu1 (Oct 15, 2010)

It's little wonder his dogs are salty, I would be as well if my medical practitioner owner condemned me to survive on rations that's less than suitable in addition to making a spectacle of himself. 

My dog is an endurance dog. On an average day, he enjoys intense, vigorous exercise for several hours as well as flyball sessions four time a week. He eats raw muscle meat, bone, fats and organ meat everyday and has been since he was 6 months of age. He does not consume a trace of plant matter nor does he receive any synthetic supplementation. 

In short, I'm convinced that Dr. Salty is indeed an internet troll looking to stir the pot for his own entertainment because his statements and claims are inspiring ridicule. 

If you intend on making your online medical doctor persona believable, at the very least consider utilizing the "spellcheck" function on your PC. Gimmick is spelled with a K "bud". Are your patients Chia pets by any chance? 

Would you be interested in knowing my profession as well since you're so eager to announce yours? Perhaps if I was a canine psychology consultant and a certified and licensed domestic pet nutritionist for the past 8 years would give my opinion a bit more credential.


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## SamWu1 (Oct 15, 2010)

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> dont ignore my post saltydogs...


Internet trolls' primary defense is to disregard. He may be on other discussion forums preying on defenseless members like pedophiles on highschool sophmores.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

xxshaelxx said:


> That's what I was thinking! XP


I am curious because I'm a rep for Earthborn Holistic, which is owned by the same company as ProPac. And while I do have info on Pro Pac, we are supposed to be more focused on Earthborn Holistic.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Its been a while since I've had a good laugh saltydogs...so thank you for your posts! :wink:

Lets keep it polite, on both sides!


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## JayJayisme (Aug 2, 2009)

saltydogs said:


> Don't romance yourself about the notion of "prey diets" and "species specific" diets. Its all a gimmic.


Yep, all of us raw people are getting rich off this "gimmic" (sic). Oh yeah, so is the commercial meat industry. Yep, we push it and push it to keep those commission checks coming. :wink:

Give me a break.


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## Unosmom (May 3, 2009)

I'm confused, whats Saltydogs the one with 2 weims in the picture? From what I recall that person recommended Champion pet foods. Is this a different person?

Could be a troll...


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5 (Feb 11, 2010)

Unosmom said:


> I'm confused, whats Saltydogs the one with 2 weims in the picture? From what I recall that person recommended Champion pet foods. Is this a different person?
> 
> Could be a troll...


yup same person..salty dogs was a good poster...but this is pbviously a new account since it ahs a join date of october...i do think it's the same person though. towards the end of his posting here, the old salty started saying corn might not be so bad...and even mentioned his dogs were doing poorly on orijen...so i'm not to surprised at all of his posts...what i am shocked at is he's reccomending a corn food..when alltho0ugh he used to have an interest in corn..he used to know better overall.

now uno is the only cute weim on the forums


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## PUNKem733 (Jun 12, 2009)

Of course this is a joke account. He actually said he's seen coyotes, and wolfs rip ears of corn of stalks and eat them! LOL!!! He mentions coyotes eating oats. If he really meant what he says he should be banned as that is a dangerous poster who might do harm with his advice to a new member.


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## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

I have had a bad experience with a good food as well (evo) and didn't come to the conclusion that the only food dog food contains corn...

It seems weird to me that he did so much research and yet came up with a completely wrong conclusion.

It seems like he chose his side and did as much research as he could to validate it, ignoring the fact that there is 10000x the info saying it isn't a viable source of protein and energy for dogs.

And as far as I am concerned, research done by someone with a financial interest.. basically doesn't count. Of course a pet food company isn't going to say raw is best and will justify their food in any way possible.

He never did say why my dog would pass out with exercise because he is raw fed.. I guess my dreams of getting my shetland sheepdog into agility are over :biggrin:


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

So there are two separate members here with very similar names but very different attitudes and knowledge base. SaltyDog is a longer standing and well respected member here and saltydogs is a newb who is obviously highly confused and misinformed about canine nutrition which will hopefully change with being a member here. Below are their profiles:

SaltyDog:

Dog Food Forum - View Profile: SaltyDog

saltydogs:

Dog Food Forum - View Profile: saltydogs


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## Bam Bam (May 1, 2010)

It's a SaltyDog imposter! That's not right. If you want to come on a site and talk crazy have the guts to be your OWN person and not use the name of a respected member!


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## Unosmom (May 3, 2009)

I know right... way to be original


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