# raw soup



## TokenAndSeth (Jul 11, 2010)

I have 6 (?) week old puppies and unsure where to start. 

When I started my ferrets on raw I made a raw soup that had chicken thigh meat, ground turkey, hearts, chicken livers, and egg shell that were ground to the consistence of pate. I used to weigh all of the ingredients but now I eyeball it and watch poop and adjust as needed. I gave them this as a meal until I could get them to eat the raw. The young ones took two days to switch but Taz my stubborn girl who was 1 1/2 when I switched her held out for 2 months. Now they only get the soup as a treat so that if they get sick I can still feed them the soup.

So with the puppies would that be a good start or should I just give them wings? Or would something else be better than wings? Also if I understand correctly the ratio's are different for the dogs than for the ferrets. The ferrets are 80% meat, 10% organ and 10% bone. I *think* I read somewhere that dogs are 80% meat, 5% organ, 5% something and 10% bone?


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

TokenAndSeth said:


> So with the puppies would that be a good start or should I just give them wings? Or would something else be better than wings?


I would start them on wings. You might want to hit them a time or two with a hammer to kinda help them get started for the first week. In a few weeks you should be able to work up to drumsticks and thighs. After that is quarters etc. What breed are they? Their size will determine what you feed them exactly.



> Also if I understand correctly the ratio's are different for the dogs than for the ferrets. The ferrets are 80% meat, 10% organ and 10% bone. I *think* I read somewhere that dogs are 80% meat, 5% organ, 5% something and 10% bone?


Don't worry about ratios for any of your animals. Feed mostly meat, some bone and some organs. Exact percentages aren't important. You can use stool consistancy to judge bone and organ content. I wouldn't feed organs for a few weeks then start them REAL slow.


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

RawFedDogs said:


> You might want to hit them a time or two with a hammer to kinda help them get started for the first week.


The meat, that is... not the puppies. :wink:


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## ruckusluvr (Oct 28, 2009)

CorgiPaws said:


> The meat, that is... not the puppies. :wink:


LO Freakin' L 

too funny. seriously.


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## rannmiller (Jun 27, 2008)

CorgiPaws said:


> The meat, that is... not the puppies. :wink:


Bahahaha! That cracked me up! 

Now one thing I have a question about feeding young puppies is that wolves in the wild gorge themselves on the food then travel back to the puppies and regurgitate it for them so it's partially digested when they're weaning them, rather than carrying back chunks of meat and bone to gnaw through themselves. Do you think it's a good idea to maybe sear the meat a little bit first to mimic this as closely as possible? I honestly have no idea and have been wondering about this.


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

rannmiller said:


> Do you think it's a good idea to maybe sear the meat a little bit first to mimic this as closely as possible? I honestly have no idea and have been wondering about this.


Cooking or searing does not mimic digestion. I think a hammer would more closely mimic digestion. :smile:

ETA: I can't remember seeing any posts about puppies having problems with digesting meat and bones when fed this way.


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## TokenAndSeth (Jul 11, 2010)

Ok so got the kids to smashing the wings with a hammer. 

Next question is I have read the debate between separating kibble and raw by hours when feeding .... Seth and Sadie do not agree. In fact they are pretty sure they are starving to DEATH if it's been more than two hours since they ate 

I have never had puppies this young so I am a bit confused and worried about what exactly I should be doing with them. They had water soaked kibble (Natural Balance puppy) that we turn into mush about 2 hours ago, how long do I need to make them wait to eat raw?

One more thing with the ferrets I scored the wings and it seemed to make it easier for them to eat them. I don't do it now but for the first month or so I did. Should I do the same with the puppies?


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

TokenAndSeth said:


> One more thing with the ferrets I scored the wings and it seemed to make it easier for them to eat them. I don't do it now but for the first month or so I did. Should I do the same with the puppies?


Suggested time is about 12 hours. 

I strongly suggest just eliminating the kibble (it's expensive, and not doing any good anyways!) and replacing those meals with raw as well. 
That way, you will have a smoother transition onto raw, and get the full benefits. Feeding some raw and some kibble doesn't offer he benefits to their full extent.


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## TokenAndSeth (Jul 11, 2010)

CorgiPaws said:


> Suggested time is about 12 hours.
> 
> I strongly suggest just eliminating the kibble (it's expensive, and not doing any good anyways!) and replacing those meals with raw as well.
> That way, you will have a smoother transition onto raw, and get the full benefits. Feeding some raw and some kibble doesn't offer he benefits to their full extent.


I do plan on going full raw. Doing it for the last 2 years with the ferrets has given me a lot of courage. The cats have been raw for the last year and that bumped up my courage even more.

With the puppies being box puppies I was not prepared to have puppies in the house when we got them two days ago. Hence why the kibble, plus Token is on kibble right now too. However if we are not careful he grabs the ferrets dinner off the counter :wink:

I feed the ferrets ground pork, ground turkey, giblets, and ground bison on their non-bone days. They also get lamb but it is not ground just cut into chunks. Would those be good to start the puppies on and use the wings as something to chew on until they get used to eating them whole?

Another "problem" Seth and Sadie I think are over-eating. Since they are so young should I let them eat as much as they want in one sitting or portion it out? Every feeding time (5 times a day per Vet suggestion) they act like they are starving, finish the bowl and look for more. Token self-regulates and I do not have to regulate his feeding. Although he is on a schedule.


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## TokenAndSeth (Jul 11, 2010)

RawFedDogs said:


> What breed are they? Their size will determine what you feed them exactly.


They are Black and Tan Coonhounds. Of course with box puppies you never know for sure but Vet said she doesn't "see" anything but hound. Their weight, as of yesterday, is Seth is 7 lbs 2 oz and Sadie is 7 lbs even.


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## TokenAndSeth (Jul 11, 2010)

rannmiller said:


> Now one thing I have a question about feeding young puppies is that wolves in the wild gorge themselves on the food then travel back to the puppies and regurgitate it for them so it's partially digested


I would think that the amount of digestion would be minimal when wolves regurgitating for the puppies. The adults mush up the bones, and the meat to an extent, which makes it easier for the pup's to eat. At least that is my thought process


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## dobesgalore (Oct 21, 2009)

I was surprised over the weekend by my husband giving me a 9 week old Australian Shepherd puppy. We first usud a hammer and crumbled up some legs. After two of those, she was going through the larger end pieces like nothing. So, I gave her one not crunched up and she goes through them like nothing. Your puppies sound like they are slightly larger than mine so I would guess they could handle legs fine as is. Give it a try. Being that mine (as yours) is teething Copper seems to enjoy all the chewing. She had two for breakfast this morning.


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## harrkim120 (Feb 2, 2010)

dobesgalore said:


> I was surprised over the weekend by my husband giving me a 9 week old Australian Shepherd puppy. We first usud a hammer and crumbled up some legs. After two of those, she was going through the larger end pieces like nothing. So, I gave her one not crunched up and she goes through them like nothing. Your puppies sound like they are slightly larger than mine so I would guess they could handle legs fine as is. Give it a try. Being that mine (as yours) is teething Copper seems to enjoy all the chewing. She had two for breakfast this morning.


Sorry...a little off topic, but how many pooches does that make now? :smile:

Back to the topic at hand... I would also go all raw. Since they are so young their stomachs are small yet they need a lot of nutrition. I would probably divide up their raw feedings into 3 or 4 meals a day. They will probably seem hungry quicker, but that's normal. Raw digests much quicker than kibble as I'm sure you know. :biggrin:


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## TokenAndSeth (Jul 11, 2010)

Right now I have feeding them 5 times a day. Since I do not work, well I am a full-time student but it is online I am home all day.

Seth and Sadie are always hungry! Almost to the point of being frantic when it comes to food. I am unsure on how much to give! I used a food calculator and it said for their weight they should eat about 7 oz a day but right now they are eating more of that in kibble and still act like they are starving!

*ETA*
I get the party wing size so they are not the "regular" wings. No seasoning or anything just a lot smaller.


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## rannmiller (Jun 27, 2008)

Just monitor their body condition to see how much to feed them. If they seem to be getting chubby, cut them back, if they seem to be underweight, feed them more :smile:


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## harrkim120 (Feb 2, 2010)

With puppies you want to feed about 2-3% of their estimated ADULT weight or about 10% of their current weight. So they will probably need more than 7 oz. You want to up their amount slowly because feeding too much before they're used to it can contribute to diarrhea as well. 

Here's a quote from Dedicated to proper carnivore nutrition - Prey Model Raw Feeding for Dogs & Cats for ya:



> If starting a puppy, this takes a bit more math. Start off feeding 10% of its current weight, meaning if a puppy weighs 10 pounds, feed 1 pound per day. If this puppy is supposed to be 60 pounds full grown, its ideal amount of food per day is 1.2-1.8 pounds per day. Once the puppy reaches ~18 pounds, or the 3% amount of adult body weight, you should back the amount down the 2-3% for normal feeding. You will only be feeding 10% for a little while, which is normal. Its better to split this amount up into several smaller meals since this will be a lot of food for a little growing puppy. Remember, this is just a guideline and that every dog is different.


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## TokenAndSeth (Jul 11, 2010)

That makes sense. They are eating about 1 lb of food. 

Seth got into some of Token's kibble last night and threw it back up, undigested, a couple of hours later.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

TokenAndSeth said:


> That makes sense. They are eating about 1 lb of food.
> 
> Seth got into some of Token's kibble last night and threw it back up, undigested, a couple of hours later.


So this should tell you that kibble is not digestible like raw food!!! Our Dane Akasha eats too fast sometimes and regurgitates half hour later and it's already turned to mush! Typically raw foods only stay in the stomach for 2-4 hours tops and only 6-12 hours to go from mouth to rear compared to kibble that takes 12-24 hours to complete digestion


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## harrkim120 (Feb 2, 2010)

danemama08 said:


> So this should tell you that kibble is not digestible like raw food!!! Our Dane Akasha eats too fast sometimes and regurgitates half hour later and it's already turned to mush! Typically raw foods only stay in the stomach for 2-4 hours tops and only 6-12 hours to go from mouth to rear compared to kibble that takes 12-24 hours to complete digestion


Ewwww....:tongue:


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