# Need help choosing a food.



## Rezzle (Feb 29, 2012)

I'm currently feeding Taste of the Wild (Pacific Stream). My family owns four Border Collies all together (active in disc dog, agility, etc...) and we're looking for a new food. 

I'd like to find a seafood based diet, grain free, but also potato free. Made in the USA. If you could give the meat percentage of the food that'd be great too. 

May sound kind of funny but I'm trying to get the closest dry food to raw that I can find. I tried raw once but didn't have any luck. 

If it helps at all, my dogs also get K9 Super Fuel, K9 Show Stopper, K9 Joint Strong, brewers yeast + garlic, D. earth., 1 salmon oil capsule, and a small mixture of raw fruits and veggies everyday.

Thank you for your suggestions!


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5 (Feb 11, 2010)

Rezzle said:


> I'm currently feeding Taste of the Wild (Pacific Stream). My family owns four Border Collies all together (active in disc dog, agility, etc...) and we're looking for a new food.
> 
> I'd like to find a seafood based diet, grain free, but also potato free. Made in the USA. If you could give the meat percentage of the food that'd be great too.
> 
> ...


evo herring sounds exactly like what you are looking for!


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## biancaDB (Nov 3, 2011)

I second the Evo and another suggestion is Nature's Variety Instinct grain free kibble. They have a ton of formulas with no potato !


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## PDXdogmom (Jun 30, 2010)

Some others: Nutrisca Salmon and Chickpea; California Natural Grain Free Salmon and Peas; Innova Prime Salmon and Herring (carb is lentils)

You say you're trying to get the closest dry food to raw; but no kibble is going to be closer than another unless you equate the highest protein listed on a bag of food as meaning it's close to raw. Kibble is highly processed of course and a grain-free kibble with peas is no closer to raw than a grain-inclusive with brown rice.


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## greyshadows (Jan 30, 2012)

I too have spent the last year looking for a new kibble for my dogs. I absolutely wanted one I could trust where they don't source any ingredients in China,and above all have had no serious recalls. To me once you have a bad recall it is hard to find trust in them again. Having said that I chose Acana dog food. They have a type called Pacifica which is fish based. It is made in Canada however but it is all sourced in Canada. Very few American companies tell you where they source from and even who makes them for that matter. They also make Orijen pet food which has a higher protein content if you desire. I don't know a lot about California Natural (suggested above), but I know Evo is made by Proctor and Gamble and I don't know if I trust them. You can go to dogfoodadvisor.com and do some research on your own to find exactly what you are looking for. Good luck!


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## Jack Monzon (Jul 25, 2010)

The closest dry food to raw might be Ziwipeak. Not seafood based...thought they do have a Venison & Fish formula. No grains, no potatoes.


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## sozzle (May 18, 2011)

Just check the ingredients list as every time I have looked at ziwipeak it seems to have sugar in it which is really bad and totally not necessary for dogs.
Sorry I have just tried to find the ziwipeak product that contained sugar and now I can't. I've had a look at their main site and looked at the ingredients and there is no sugar listed, so can't prove my initial worry.
Apologies.


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## sozzle (May 18, 2011)

I'm obviously talking bollocks sorry! I was getting Ziwipeak totally arse about face and getting it confused with a company called Zeal that sell a moist pouch dog food that unfortunately contains sugar and other unnecessaries for dogs.


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## Gally (Jan 28, 2012)

I just read about a new food that fits your criteria, it's called Darford Zero/G Foods. The company is based in Canada but their food is manufactured in the US with organic and local ingredients.
I can't find the meat % but it seems like it should be relatively high based on the ingredients. Protein level is 30% min.

Dog Food & Treats | Darford Pet Food

I'd love to hear what others think of this food as I'm considering trying it since it seems Gally might have a minor sensitivity to potatoes but I haven't been able to test my theory yet.


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## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

The only thing I would question, and someone PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong (like I normally am), is the Menhaden Fish Meal which is the first meal listed in the Darford food. 
From what I've learnt throughout the years is that this fish, for some reason, is not human grade. But, the most important thing is that it is preserved with ethoxquin. They don't have to mention that ethoxquin was used in the fish they use because they didn't add it, it was added before they received it to process into their own kibble.
Things may have changed in the past year or so, but I would check this out further before feeding it, just to be on the safe side.
Other than that, it looks like a pretty decent food, and, Pet Supermarket carry it!


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## Gally (Jan 28, 2012)

Good info Molly. I will do some research into that. If I find anything I'll let you know.

Edit: I found on their pdf print out of their full ingredients list this disclaimer. Menhaden Fish Meal (naturally preserved with mixed tocopherols). Would this really mean their fish meal supplier did not use ethoxyquin or could it still be present in the meal upon arrival at the manufacturing plant? It appears that suppliers/fisheries have natural alternatives to using ethoxyquin, they just have to apply to use them.

Mehaden Fish Meal is also used in several other foods I would consider high quality.

Blue Wilderness
Fromm Four Star
Wellness
Instinct
Earthborn Holistic
Eagle Pack Holistic Select


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5 (Feb 11, 2010)

Gally said:


> Good info Molly. I will do some research into that. If I find anything I'll let you know.
> 
> Edit: I found on their pdf print out of their full ingredients list this disclaimer. Menhaden Fish Meal (naturally preserved with mixed tocopherols). Would this really mean their fish meal supplier did not use ethoxyquin or could it still be present in the meal upon arrival at the manufacturing plant? It appears that suppliers/fisheries have natural alternatives to using ethoxyquin, they just have to apply to use them.
> 
> ...


it's also used in totw(oceaN FISH) an to answer your question the supplier could still have used ethox.


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## lovemydogsalways (Mar 4, 2012)

OP what did you end up going with? JW


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## K9Pro (Mar 11, 2012)

Just wanted to offer some advice and education to those who wish to get the best nutrition for their companions. To quantify this post, I spent over 6 months researching the US Pet Food industry and canine nutrition. I won't get into all the details, but I will say that what I found APPALLED me.

You've all heard the saying, "You are what you eat!" This is just as true for our four-legged family members. Cats, Puppies and adult dogs need to eat the right foods to stay healthy and alert. The following information explains what to look for in a healthy diet and how good nutrition can help your dog behave...
How Nutrition Affects Your Dog's Behavior
Correct nutrition is crucially important for every aspect of your dog’s life. It affects their health and wellness by offering a vital balance of proteins, fats, complex carbohydrates and the trace nutrients and minerals their bodies need for the growth and repair of their immune systems.
Nutrition is a vital part of your dog’s ability to think clearly, lower his/her stress levels and a produce a calmer demeanor. The act of thinking takes a lot of energy. Dogs involved in a training program expend a lot of mental energy focusing on the tasks they must learn.
If your dog starts with minimal nutrition, they become lethargic, grouchy or hyper when they are asked to perform the simplest of tasks. They simply are not able to focus properly and lose concentration after a short period of time or they may become confused. If the dog is constantly being asked to do something they can't comprehend, their confusion can lead to an aggressive form of acting out. 
In training dogs, the first thing I look at is the dog’s diet. I work from the inside out. Training becomes less and less effective if the causes for the behaviors are not addressed. 
Hyper, unfocused and out of control dogs and puppies often are eating foods with extremely high levels of cereal foods such as wheat, corn, and/or corn meal. Aggressive dogs eat food containing higher levels of incomplete protein which do not digest well. Shy and stressed dogs do not digest their foods well at all and often suffer from intestinal complications such as diarrhea. Their coats are often extremely dry and shed heavily.
One way to test the foods you are feeding is to soak the food in water for about fifteen minutes. If it swells in size and becomes somewhat mushy, it is mostly cereal. Are your dog’s stools often soft and loose or is the dog gassy? They are not digesting the food properly. 
By looking at their food, you will do more to help balance their behavior, as well as contribute to their health and longevity. So the question is……..What is your dog eating? 
Were you aware that there are MUCH more stringent regulations on pet food in Europe vs. the US? For example, rendered product is NOT allowed in pet food in Europe. Yet it IS here in the US. Guess what? Average life expectancy of dogs in Europe is 5 years longer than here in the US.
So.....one thing to look for in a pet food for quality is APHIS certified. APHIS is a regulating agency which would ensure that the food could also be sold to the European market. Another GOOD measurement of premium nutrition in dog food is KCal / cup. This basically is the amount of calories which are bio-available to the dog in one cup of food.....in other words, how much nutrition / calories the dog can metabolize from one cup of food. The larger the number, the more digestible, better the food. So, for example, Wellness CORE Ocean Recipe is 417 KCal / Cup. It costs about $3.50 a pound. I represent a human-grade holistic, USDA and APHIS food that has 482 KCal/cup. My Border Collie (VERY active) is 56 pounds, and eats just 3/4 cup 2 X per day. Visit my website to learn more! www.perfectpawswnc.com. Go to the Nutrition page!


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## riddick4811 (Nov 2, 2011)

Nutrisource Seafood select is grain/potato free. Got some samples and my dogs seemed to like it. Priced comparable to TOTW, but a little more kcal/cup.


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## Unosmom (May 3, 2009)

Depending how much you're willing to spend, good quality fish based kibble tend to be more expensive, usually at least $58 for a large bag, I personally like EVO herring, nature variety Instinct Salmon, Acana Pacifica and Orijen 6 fish.


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5 (Feb 11, 2010)

looked it up i;d wager to bet it has practically no meat
Crude Protein (Min.) 25.0% 250 g/kg


Ingredients:

Salmon, menhaden fishmeal, *peas, pea flour, pea starch, flax seeds*, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), natural turkey and chicken flavor, sunflower oil, alfalfa meal, calcium carbonate, tomato pomace, dicalcium phosphate, potassium chloride, dried brewers yeast, salt, minerals (zinc proteinate, iron proteinate, copper proteinate, manganese proteinate, cobalt proteinate, selenium yeast), choline chloride, taurine, vitamins (vitamin A acetate, vitamin D3 supplement, vitamin E supplement, niacin, d-calcium pantothenate, thiamine mononitrate, pyridoxine hydrochloride, riboflavin supplement, folic acid, biotin, vitamin B12 supplement), glucosamine hydrochloride, ascorbic acid (source of vitamin C), chondroitin sulfate, yucca schidigera extract, calcium iodate, rosemary extract, yeast culture (Saccharomyces cerevisiae), dried Lactobacillus acidophilus fermentation product, dried Enterococcus faecium fermentation product, dried Aspergillus niger fermentation product, dried Bacillus subtillis fermentation product.


riddick4811 said:


> Nutrisource Seafood select is grain/potato free. Got some samples and my dogs seemed to like it. Priced comparable to TOTW, but a little more kcal/cup.


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## DaViking (Sep 27, 2011)

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> looked it up i;d wager to bet it has practically no meat
> Crude Protein (Min.) 25.0% 250 g/kg
> 
> 
> ...


Absolutely nothing wrong with peas as a source of fiber, protein and binder (since this is the dry food section). In fact, much better than many other alternatives. Granted that meat is a better source of proteins, but everything in life is relative and if price is of no concern you could easily fill up the first five slots with meats. That however doesn't say anything about the distribution, as it doesn't do in this case either. You shouldn't address the distribution unless you have some facts to back it up with.


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5 (Feb 11, 2010)

They are using a method called splitting...when you combine all of the pea ingredients they over power the small amount of meat meal in the food...it's common sense.
also pes are worse than potatoes in my opinion. peas are high in protein and cause gas..while potatoes have very little protein..meaning the protein percentage on the bag is probably from meat. i can confidently say that totw has way ore meat than this. I would rate this product on par ONLY with sierra mountain totw. Facts are created through questioning current authority...i am questioning the amount of meat here..i said ''i'd wager to bet'' I did not make any Statements other than opinion based ones...which are always acceptable.
flax seeds are very bad for allergies.[/B]


DaViking said:


> Absolutely nothing wrong with peas as a source of fiber, protein and binder (since this is the dry food section). In fact, much better than many other alternatives. Granted that meat is a better source of proteins, but everything in life is relative and if price is of no concern you could easily fill up the first five slots with meats. That however doesn't say anything about the distribution, as it doesn't do in this case either. You shouldn't address the distribution unless you have some facts to back it up with.


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## K9Pro (Mar 11, 2012)

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> ....flax seeds are very bad for allergies.[/B]


Could you please quote your source for this statement?


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## DaViking (Sep 27, 2011)

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> They are using a method called splitting...when you combine all of the pea ingredients they over power the small amount of meat meal in the food...it's common sense.
> also pes are worse than potatoes in my opinion. peas are high in protein and cause gas..while potatoes have very little protein..meaning the protein percentage on the bag is probably from meat. i can confidently say that totw has way ore meat than this. I would rate this product on par ONLY with sierra mountain totw. Facts are created through questioning current authority...i am questioning the amount of meat here..i said ''i'd wager to bet'' I did not make any Statements other than opinion based ones...which are always acceptable.
> flax seeds are very bad for allergies.[/B]


Hate gas, just hate it 
I know many owners who feed their dogs food with peas, can't remember a single one complaining about gas issues, but I am sure they are out there too.

Nah, the only fact here is that you do not know the ingredient distribution, splitting or no splitting. It's beyond inaccurate to say "bet it has practically no meat" when the first two ingredients are named meats. Doesn't matter if pea proteins would climb 1 or even 2 spots combined. This food have a significant amount of meat, probably with menhaden fishmeal as number 1. Questioning is good, throwing out assumptions left right and center is not good. For the record, I have no experience with Nutrisource, never heard of them before today. Does this look like the best food of all times? No. Can it be a great alternative for many dogs? Absolutely, providing the ppl behind it, production, sourcing and similar checks out of course.


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5 (Feb 11, 2010)

but you do know the distribution...salmon is not the first ingredient..so only one meat is first..menhaden fish meal(which is low quality)
then after that are a bunch of different high protein peas and flax seeds..which definitley over power the fish meal.
foods like acana which look way more meaty than this.only hav 60 percent meat(Fresh Meat NOT total meat meaning even acana and orijen don't have 60 and 80 percent total meat..just fresh water filled meat.)...so i think it's safe to say this has a low meat.
i personally would rather feed purina one beyond than that.


DaViking said:


> Hate gas, just hate it
> I know many owners who feed their dogs food with peas, can't remember a single one complaining about gas issues, but I am sure they are out there too.
> 
> Nah, the only fact here is that you do not know the ingredient distribution, splitting or no splitting. It's beyond inaccurate to say "bet it has practically no meat" when the first two ingredients are named meats. Doesn't matter if pea proteins would climb 1 or even 2 spots combined. This food have a significant amount of meat, probably with menhaden fishmeal as number 1. Questioning is good, throwing out assumptions left right and center is not good. For the record, I have no experience with Nutrisource, never heard of them before today. Does this look like the best food of all times? No. Can it be a great alternative for many dogs? Absolutely, providing the ppl behind it, production, sourcing and similar checks out of course.


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5 (Feb 11, 2010)

Hopefully what i wrote makes sense


DaViking said:


> Hate gas, just hate it
> I know many owners who feed their dogs food with peas, can't remember a single one complaining about gas issues, but I am sure they are out there too.
> 
> Nah, the only fact here is that you do not know the ingredient distribution, splitting or no splitting. It's beyond inaccurate to say "bet it has practically no meat" when the first two ingredients are named meats. Doesn't matter if pea proteins would climb 1 or even 2 spots combined. This food have a significant amount of meat, probably with menhaden fishmeal as number 1. Questioning is good, throwing out assumptions left right and center is not good. For the record, I have no experience with Nutrisource, never heard of them before today. Does this look like the best food of all times? No. Can it be a great alternative for many dogs? Absolutely, providing the ppl behind it, production, sourcing and similar checks out of course.


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## DaViking (Sep 27, 2011)

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> i personally would rather feed purina one beyond than that.





RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> Hopefully what i wrote makes sense


Yes. 




10char


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