# Need a pep talk



## Steph (Jun 24, 2011)

I've been feed raw for a year and a half now. I need a little pep talk because I am having issues with my white bulldog and red yeast. It's overgrown on his feet, belly, groin, face, and armpits. It doesn't seem to affect him G/I wise because his stools are normal.


He's always had a yeast problem and I thought putting him on raw would help. It hasn't. I have also tried EVERY natural cure I have read about and nothing has helped. He's itchy and stinky and I don't know what to do about it. On another forum, someone told me that their dog was the same way and after putting them on Hill's z/d prescription diet, everything has cleared up and that my dog probably can't handle the protein and needs it hydrolized (???). I DO NOT want to do that since I get my raw for free and my dogs enjoy it so much.

Here are the things I have tried to clear up red yeast: ACV in water, ACV in food, Oregano oil in food, Oregano oil with olive oil on skin, Coconut oil, corn starch, probiotics, NZYMES, OxyDrops, lots of baths, no baths, wiping him down everyday with unscented baby wipes, foot baths with hydrogen peroxide and vinegar, wiping him down with a mixture of ACV and water, and vet shampoos. I also stopped feeding him venison for awhile. Nothing works. I don't want to give up on him so my last ditch effort is going to be giving him Tylan. I know it;s an antibiotic and isn't FDA approved for dogs but I don't know what else to do besides steroid shots and a switch back to awful kibble.


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## Kat (Jul 12, 2011)

Have you tried ACV with acidophilus probiotic? It doesn't go away right away, it will take some time for the red yeast bacteria to be neutralized. Are you sure you were giving enough ACV? You can also try giving colloidal silver internally along side the ACV and acidophilus, I found when I used CS it kicked it up a notch.


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## catahoulamom (Sep 23, 2010)

What meats do you feed the most frequently?


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## Steph (Jun 24, 2011)

catahoulamom said:


> What meats do you feed the most frequently?


It depends on what I have a lot of. Living in WI, we get lots of venison. But I feed tripe a lot too. I had a ton of bear and elk that I was feeding for like 2 months straight w organs. Now I'm back to mostly venison, chicken (free range) and tripe. Oh and they get an egg every morning.


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## Steph (Jun 24, 2011)

He gets a teaspoon of ACV in his food every morning and a tablespoon in his water. And he gets NZYMES probiotics every morning.


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## BeagleCountry (Jan 20, 2012)

Red yeast grows on moisture. As stated by Lew Olson, canine nutritionist, do not use ACV internally as it becomes a sweetener that feeds the yeast. Use plain white vinegar inside and out whenever there is a yeast problem. Tylan is an antibiotic which prevents the red yeast from growing on the moist areas. It has a very bitter taste. Products such as Angels Eyes contain a small amount of Tylan with a lot of flavoring to hide the bitterness. Some dogs will not eat it. Tylan may kill the beneficial gut bacteria creating an additional problem. Try Zymox shampoo. It uses natural ingredients to effectively treat yeast, bacterial and fungal infections. You may also want to use the rinse. For a long term infection it may take a month or more to see improvement and continued use may be needed.
Read the reviews:
Amazon.com: Zymox Enzamatic Shampoo (12 oz): Pet Supplies

Post info on everything your dog is eating such as the raw diet, treats and people food, as others may have ideas on improving it to avoid the yeast problem.

As most of the yeast is on the lower part of the body think of where the dog may be picking up moisture such as grass, being in the bathroom while people shower, etc. Keep household cleaners, laundry detergents, etc. as natural as possible because they could be causing irritation which makes the skin vulnerable to infection. Do not use air fresheners or other airborne products.


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## Kat (Jul 12, 2011)

I would never give white vinegar internally, is has no nutritional value whatsoever. ACV detoxifies the body, and I can tell you first hand it does help with tear staining. Do not use white vinegar. Also, try switching to acidophilus probiotic, that's the one that works well alongside the ACV. How much does your bulldog weigh? Ruby is 17 pounds and gets 1 teaspoon of ACV a day. I would think for your bulldog a tablespoon would be more appropriate.


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## Rvent (Apr 15, 2012)

I have the same problem with my pit bull she has yeast in all the places you have mentioned she has been raw fed for a year now and it also does not help. I took her to see an allergy doc, she has me using chlorhexidine pads or witch hazel pads (tucks) to wipe her down..then use gold bond powder on all those areas. so far it seems to e working but she is also on an antibiotic and anti itch med.


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## mwplay (Oct 10, 2010)

I've got 2 boys who get the red yeast/staining. For years, they would get it on their bellies/butt area/feet. 

While discussing a friend's newly adopted westie-poo with the lady who runs our co-op, I found out chicken is considered a "warming/hot" protein in Traditional Chinese Medicine. When I looked into this more, I found most of the proteins I was feeding were warming/hot (chicken/lamb/turkey/venison). I moved my boys to pork/fish/duck/rabbit/beef and amazingly, the yeast started clearing up and much less chewing going on.

I mentioned this to the breeder who also had a problem with yeast in a few of her dogs, she moved away from chicken and had the same results... no more yeasty/feet chewing.

When you mentioned the proteins you are feeding, it reminded me of what I was feeding when my dogs were "flaring". Don't know if you want to try, but if you could do pork/duck and continue the tripe on your guy, maybe it will help.

Now, my guys do sometimes get a flare up when the hair in their pads get long and feet stay wet/damp. I have tried the vinegar rinses/povidone iodine rinses, etc, with less than stellar results so, I use Dermapet/Dechra Mal-A-Ket shampoo when they flare. I leave it on their feet for 10 mnutes and I find it really helps. 

I know how it is when you feel you've tried everything, but still have the same issues. I always feel like I'm "missing" something and could be doing "better". Hope this is helpful.


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## Steph (Jun 24, 2011)

Thank you for all the helpful responses! 

It's funny you bring up the Chinese medicine thing mwplay, because the lady that owns the natural pet store I go to brought that up to me awhile ago. That's why i stopped feeding venison, because it was considered a hot meat. The problem is, I can't afford to feed raw unless I feed venison and chicken.... I guess pork would be cheap, but beef isn't and I wouldn't know where to get duck. 

I have just read about the witch hazel and will try that I suppose. And I also read about colloidal silver so I may try that too. 

My husband and I are very natural. We shop at a natural foods co-op and most of our cleaning products are natural, including our laundry detergent. We ripped up all of our carpet because I thought that was an allergen for him, didn't help. We don't use cleaner on our floors, just a steamer. I also had mal-a-ket wipes and tried using those, it didn't seem to help.

I really really didn't want to use Tylan, but I figured I could try and see if it clears it up once. Then, I could only use it once and awhile along with the stuff I already do to keep it away.


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## Foodie (Apr 25, 2010)

Where do you live?

Did anyone confirm that the red staining is yeast? (microscope examination)


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## BeagleCountry (Jan 20, 2012)

Kat said:


> I would never give white vinegar internally, is has no nutritional value whatsoever. ACV detoxifies the body, and I can tell you first hand it does help with tear staining. Do not use white vinegar. Also, try switching to acidophilus probiotic, that's the one that works well alongside the ACV. How much does your bulldog weigh? Ruby is 17 pounds and gets 1 teaspoon of ACV a day. I would think for your bulldog a tablespoon would be more appropriate.


The concept of using plain white vinegar is not based on nutrition. It is to acidify the system to reduce the potential for yeast growth.


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## Kat (Jul 12, 2011)

BeagleCountry said:


> The concept of using plain white vinegar is not based on nutrition. It is to acidify the system to reduce the potential for yeast growth.


ACV is acidic as well. I don't like the idea of giving white vinegar to my dogs.


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## Foodie (Apr 25, 2010)

I would never give straight vinegar of any kind (long term), you will erode the enamel on the teeth.


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## Steph (Jun 24, 2011)

We live in southeastern wisconsin. The vet said that's it looks like red yeast. There was a mange scrape done not too long ago because he had mange when he was younger, it was negative


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## Foodie (Apr 25, 2010)

Red stains aren't always yeast. To check for yeast a transparent piece of tape is pressed into the area in question and looked at under a microscope. It sounds like he's showing red stains in areas that he can reach by licking. Saliva and body fluids can stain red.


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## Foodie (Apr 25, 2010)

Obviously you can't treat a problem unless you know what's causing it. One thing you can do is eliminate food as a cause. The only way to determine if something in his food is bothering him is to do an elimination diet. There are no shortcuts to this process.


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## mwplay (Oct 10, 2010)

The Mal-A-Ket wipes did nothing. I have to use the shampoo.

I know about costs, moving away from chicken and turkey to pork/duck, etc has really increased my costs. And I buy most of my food through the raw co-op, which is more sustainable/pastured/grass-fed and it's still expensive, but much less than if I bought at a store that offers free range/organic meats and poultry. 

As for the duck, do you have a raw co-op in WI, or are you open to purchasing and having it shipped? Hare Today sells duck. My Pet Carnivore looks as if they deliver in WI (I've never used their products, so can't attest to quality/service). To keep my costs lower, I feed duck necks/carcass for the bone portion and then feed pork/beef/tripe/turkey for the boneless meat portion. 

See, for me, out here in SF Bay California, I can't find venison/elk readily, so when I read about everyone feeding all these unique proteins (to me), I get jealous!


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## Steph (Jun 24, 2011)

Its not from him licking, he doesn't lick. And it's not really a staining, but more of a crud/crust. It smells like fritos. I just bathed him and it looks nice right now, but in a few days, the skin in between his toes will be crusty and sore and his groin area will look dirty with a red crud. When I wipe those areas with a white wipe, it turns it red and it stinks.


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## Steph (Jun 24, 2011)

Yea I have 2 chest freezers full of venison. Last fall, we got deer carcasses dropped off at our house from a hunter. 

We get My Pet Carnivore a couple times a year. That's where I get my tripe and organs and whole prey chicken from. But the venison is free so thats why I REALLY hope that's not what is causing this. He has a lower immune system. He had mange when he was younger and when he was a puppy, he was hospitalized for a few days with pneumonia. He was then pumped with anti-bs and steroids which I think started this whole yeast thing.


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## Foodie (Apr 25, 2010)

Do you have a closeup picture of what your talking about?


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## Foodie (Apr 25, 2010)

BeagleCountry said:


> The concept of using plain white vinegar is not based on nutrition. It is to acidify the system to reduce the potential for yeast growth.


A raw fed dog should have an acidic system already, a diet high in carbohydrates can shift the balance more alkaline. It is true that a more alkaline environment will be more hospitable to bacteria and fungi.


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## Steph (Jun 24, 2011)

No... but I can try and find one


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## Steph (Jun 24, 2011)

This is just his foot, his belly doesn't look that bad right now.


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## Foodie (Apr 25, 2010)

Red staining is pretty common between the toes as this is where a dog sweats and sometimes dogs will chew on their feet if they are bored. This redness wouldn't explain why he smells and is itchy, I'm assuming he's itchy all over? I've heard of dogs feet smelling like Fritos and that's pretty normal.

It's impossible to look at a skin/fur problem and diagnose yeast. If your convinced that your dog has yeast then giving him an antibiotic won't eliminate it, you would need an anti-fungal. I wouldn't put a dog on an anti-fungal unless there was a positive diagnosis. I'm not convinced that he has yeast because he's on an acidic diet. Often people say their dogs don't lick when in fact they do, you can't monitor him around the clock. Dogs will lick itchy areas that they can't scratch.

He's itchy and smelly with red skin or fur, somethings wrong. What you can do on your own is an elimination diet for at least 12 weeks to see if food is causing his issues. You have to use a protein source that he's never had before and you should only feed one protein, no treats. chews or supplements. Or, you can use a commercially available single protein/single carbohydrate food. Hydrolyzed protein foods will work too, they are foods where the protein is broken down into amino acids. If the diet change resolves his issues then you can challenge him by adding another protein source for two weeks and observing what happens. If the elimination diet doesn't work then I recommend you take him to a dermatologist.


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## mwplay (Oct 10, 2010)

Poor guy.

My dogs' paws look like that on top between toes and under the pads, but also have a black scab when they are flaring. I think it is yeast and maybe he's licking at night? The redness comes when my guys are inflamed and have been licking.

When I see this on mine, the shampoo works. Tried diluted vinegar on one and he went ballistic... as I'm sure it stung. 

The other thing I've noticed it is happens more in late fall/winter/spring with mine. I'm thinking they are coming in contact with outdoor environmental molds/pollens on the grass/cement.


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## pogo (Aug 28, 2011)

my two being white have that between their toes but they have it no where else and have never been itchy. They do use their feet ALOT when eating and so lick their feet and get food all over them, which has stained them over time. I do give them ACV though and it has never spread anywhere else or caused any problems. 

How much ACV have you been giving have you tried upping it?


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## Foodie (Apr 25, 2010)

mwplay said:


> Poor guy.
> 
> My dogs' paws look like that on top between toes and under the pads, but also have a black scab when they are flaring. I think it is yeast and maybe he's licking at night? The redness comes when my guys are inflamed and have been licking.
> 
> ...


There are a couple of things you can do to help reduce this. Don't trim the hair on your dogs feet, the longer hair helps wick moisture away from the area. Dry between your dogs toes when you have wet conditions, swimming, rainy season etc., sometimes boots help. 

If you suspect yeast or if your dog has discomfort, crush up a couple cloves of fresh garlic and put it in a quart jar of warm water and shake it up. Find a small deep bowl that your dogs foot will fit into and put about 2" of the garlic/water solution in the bowl. Have your dog stand and soak each foot in the solution for 5-10 minutes, then wipe off the wetness, don't rinse. The remaining solution can be refrigerated and used for another treatment. Treat every day or every other day for about a week (depends on the dog). Garlic is a natural anti-fungal and works much better than vinegar. This won't remove the stains immediately but should resolve symptoms that cause the dog to chew on his feet, assuming he's not doing it out of boredom or allergies.


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## catahoulamom (Sep 23, 2010)

mwplay said:


> While discussing a friend's newly adopted westie-poo with the lady who runs our co-op, I found out chicken is considered a "warming/hot" protein in Traditional Chinese Medicine. When I looked into this more, I found most of the proteins I was feeding were warming/hot (chicken/lamb/turkey/venison). I moved my boys to pork/fish/duck/rabbit/beef and amazingly, the yeast started clearing up and much less chewing going on..
> 
> When you mentioned the proteins you are feeding, it reminded me of what I was feeding when my dogs were "flaring". Don't know if you want to try, but if you could do pork/duck and continue the tripe on your guy, maybe it will help.
> 
> .


This is exactly what I was getting at. One of my dogs (pit bull type dog as well) had this issue on kibble and when we first transitioned to raw (we were feeding a lot of chicken). I switched the chicken in his diet for duck (and continued with the topical treatments) and within a week we were seeing a difference. Now he doesn't have any yeast, unless I start feeding him mostly "heating" meats. I'm not sure about your dog, but Rambo always had really hot and humid skin, especially during his yeast flare ups. Now that Ive altered his diet, his skin is normal color and a comfortable temperature. I really can't explain how it works, but I have a some friends who are acupuncturists and they are the ones that recommended this to me, and I was thrilled to find that it helped. We can feed him a meal or two of chicken and he's fine, just not as a staple in his diet.


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## monster'sdad (Jul 29, 2012)

BeagleCountry said:


> The concept of using plain white vinegar is not based on nutrition. It is to acidify the system to reduce the potential for yeast growth.


Blood and Urine PH go up not down after ingesting any kind of vinegar. I would like to see close up pictures of this dogs feet, including the pads. I would also like to know how much calcium this dog is getting.


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## Boxers&Pom's Mom (Jan 17, 2011)

Maybe he is Allergic to one of the meat that you give him. Cassie my Boxer has the same problems. If I feed her any meat of animals feed with grain, she start itching at her paws and ears. So, I give her very little chicken and when I do remove the skin. Now, for Christmas she has some dog cookies and she start itching again. I am controlling it with Benadryl one a day and try to detox her. For sure she is a lot better than when she use to eat kibbles.


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## Steph (Jun 24, 2011)

I don't know how much he's getting. I don't have him on a strict 80:10:10. He gets a raw meaty bone everyday and when he gets fed chicken heads, chicken feet, and whole prey chicken maybe every 10 or so days. His stools are fine and his bms are regular


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## Unosmom (May 3, 2009)

maybe cut out the chicken for a while and just stick with venison or some other novel red meat? also have you tried zymox shampoo?


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## Fundog (Oct 25, 2012)

Antibiotics are a common cause for yeast infections, so I'm thinking giving antibiotics would only exacerbate the problem, not make it better. 

When my son was born (yes, a human, but it's a good comparison), he was given antibiotics for sepsis screening. As a result, he developed a horrible diaper rash, and a rash around his mouth. After nearly a month of getting it wrong, the pediatrician finally figured out it was a very bad yeast infection and thrush, and prescribed Nystatin cream. It is safe enough to put inside the infant's mouth to treat a thrush infection--though it prob'ly tastes nasty. I would go for an antifungal cream (even Monostat!) before I would try antibiotics for your poor doggy. And I get topical yeast infections/hot spots a lot too--cause I sweat for a living-- acv only seems to make it worse, and burns like heck. Likewise, corn starch *feeds* the organism, does not make it go away! Besides a regular steroid cream, such as hydrocortisone cream as often as needed, I also use zinc oxide cream (brand name Desitin, baby diaper rash cream) on my sweat-related rashes. I apply the zinc oxide every day. And after I finally cleared up my son's yeast infection on his bottom, I applied zinc oxide after every diaper change until he was toilet trained, to prevent the moisture in his diaper from irritating his skin. Try this with your poor little doggy. I hope he feels better soon.


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

I can tell you what foods my holistic vet has my Cayenne on who has some yeasty issues. These are all cooling foods turkey, pork, fish, rabbit and I can feed emu. Duck is considered a cooling MOIST food so if you have yeast issues I wouldn't feed duck. She gets probiotics twice a day along with 20 drops GSE twice a day and 1500 mg of Super Quercitin


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## Felix (Oct 9, 2012)

Where in Wisconsin do you live? I'm in Madison! 

My dog had a big problem with yeast and once his feet looked like yours between 2 of his toes. What we did is I made sure to clean them up and hydrogen peroxide twice a day. That brought down the initial yeast issue. I also am giving him a mushroom supplement that is supposed to boost the immune system. It's called Organic Pet Superfood: Immunity. That has done wonders for us! He used to have a red belly, lick his penis until it was red and swollen at the tip and lick his paws, legs, chest, everywhere. This has been a godsend for us. I've gone through 2 bottles in about 6 months (he is a 50# dog) and I'm slowly trying to see how he does without it, so far so good. If the yeast starts flaring up again I will have to buy another bottle. I work at a local pet store so it's easy enough for me to get as we sell it.


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