# got back from the vet i have some questions i:)



## RCTRIPLEFRESH5 (Feb 11, 2010)

so we just got back from the vet, and I had some questions since I trust you guys to give an honest 2nd opinion

1-my dad who is wary of giving winston fish asked the vet if sardines and maceral were good for dogs. the vet claimed that the oils in sardines and mackeral are bad for dogs and give pancreatitus? yet he claims that a processed fish oil pill is alriight lol.

2- The vet claimed frontline and vectra were only harmful to pests, and not dogs he claimed that it doesnt get absorbed into the dogs skin and works with their body

3- This is the biggest question I have had. The vet said it was good we were using apple cider vinegar and was supportive in that respect(winston has a bacterial infection on his paws..vet says he has allergies)...but the vet said he would like winston on cephalexin 2 pills 2 times per day.
ive read some very bad things about anntibiotics and was wondering if i should try just the apple cider before using the pills(we bought the pills but im a lil wary of using them)

on a good note winston gained weight! he;s 101.4 now up from 97 when we got him. the vet claimed that winston has some leg condition though cause his feet point out a lil, but i think that winston ust does that occasionally. ether way i think we will maintain him around this weight or 105 tops


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## angelbears (Jun 9, 2011)

I am very anti -- antibiotics. However, they do have their place and should be used when needed. I have been fighting bacterial infections with my guy for 2 years, since he was a puppy. We were on the antibiotics merry-go-round and I think it caused more problems. I can go into more detail if needed but will keep it short here. My guy had the gunky toes and someone suggested Oil of Oregano. It worked wonders. It didn't work on his chin but did miracles on his gunky toes. If you decide to use it I'll be glad to tell you how. If you do use the antibiotic, I would suggest a probiotic. Since he is a large dog, I would check with the vet on which antibiotic he has chosen, some weaken ligaments and are not recommended for large breed dogs while they are still growing.


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5 (Feb 11, 2010)

angelbears said:


> I am very anti -- antibiotics. However, they do have their place and should be used when needed. I have been fighting bacterial infections with my guy for 2 years, since he was a puppy. We were on the antibiotics merry-go-round and I think it caused more problems. I can go into more detail if needed but will keep it short here. My guy had the gunky toes and someone suggested Oil of Oregano. It worked wonders. It didn't work on his chin but did miracles on his gunky toes. If you decide to use it I'll be glad to tell you how. If you do use the antibiotic, I would suggest a probiotic. Since he is a large dog, I would check with the vet on which antibiotic he has chosen, some weaken ligaments and are not recommended for large breed dogs while they are still growing.


thanks for the post. i actually mentioned in the OP that he pput him on cephalexin.
if enough people advise against using it, i will tell the vet we have some at hom and see if we can get our 45 bucks back


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## KC23 (Nov 17, 2010)

My dog, Rodney, was limping around last year. His paw was all red/swollen--I think he got bit or stung. I tried my best to care for it, but it wasn't improving. He took cephalexin and healed nicely. If the vet seems pretty certain that it's a bacterial infection, I personally would use the antibiotic. I agree w/angelbears though---I'd use a probiotic and/give him a little plain yogurt everyday while he's on it. I also think you should continue with the ACV and water too.


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## Porphyria (Jul 13, 2011)

1) I don't know much about pancreatitis. I do know that a lot of fat in the diet can contribute to it, but I don't know how much is considered "too much." 

2) This was already pretty thoroughly discussed in a previous thread. I know some people who don't want to use any chemicals on their pets, and I totally understand that. But keep in mind that there is no known link between Frontline or Vectra and serious illness (skin irritation at the application site seems to be the biggest problem with Frontline, and even that's fairly rare). But we know for a fact that pest-borne illnesses like lyme disease and heartworm can take a serious toll on an animal's health. It's really up to you to weigh the benefits and percieved risks. 

3) Overruse of antibiotics is a big problem, and causes resistant bacteria. There is definitely a time and a place for antibiotics, but it's best to limit their use to when they are REALLY needed. I'm not sure in Winston's case. What exactly is wrong with his paws? You mentioned before they were yeasty...is yeast the only/biggest problem? Or is there an infection? I ask because I was on cephalexin for a while and when my pharmacist filled the prescription he warned me that it can cause yeast infections. I'm no expert on antibiotics so someone please correct me if I'm totally misinformed, but it seems counterintuitive to prescribe an antibiotic that can cause yeast problems to treat a yeast issue. But if yeast isn't the issue (if, for example, the paws are infected) I understand why the antibiotic was prescribed. Often vets will prescribe an antibiotic as a preventative after surgery, which is something I totally disagree with. However if there is a bacterial infection present, antibiotics are usually necessary in order to eliminate it. So I think really, it comes down to knowing what exactly Winston's paw issue is. If the vet thinks there is a bacterial infection present, then the cephalexin is fine.


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## monkeys23 (Dec 8, 2010)

1. It shouldn't hurt him at all.

2. Well they are chemicals so I'm sure they have some effect on the dogs body... That said I use two doses of Frontline Plus each summer and the girls are on Interceptor for HW preventative every summer. IMO the benefits outweigh the risks. I do not like bugs! We may be trying Revolution or Trifexis next year instead.

3. This would be his first round of antibiotics since you've had him? I would go one round to be safe. Otherwise use very high quality limited ingredient grain free food with the ACV.

** Remember that especially with large breed dogs it is MUCH MUCH better to keep them as lean and muscular as possible to support joint health and longevity.


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## jdatwood (Apr 13, 2009)

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> 1-my dad who is wary of giving winston fish asked the vet if sardines and maceral were good for dogs. the vet claimed that the oils in sardines and mackeral are bad for dogs and give pancreatitus? yet he claims that a processed fish oil pill is alriight lol.


He obviously learned exactly what Hills wanted him to learn in Vet school about nutrition and nothing else. 

Fish is great for dogs. If it wasn't our dogs would be dead or sick

You tell me what's better....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToXzDZPKxMsor

[video=youtube;ToXzDZPKxMsor]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToXzDZPKxMsor[/video]


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## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

I just want to say it's likely illegal to return medications. It is for people medications, so likely pet, too.


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## chowder (Sep 7, 2008)

I was using apple cider vinegar on Rocky's paws for a long time and they weren't getting better at all. I took him in to the vet and he was put on antibiotics and the special paw wipes. His paws cleared up in two weeks after spending months hurting him.

Sometimes you need to use antibiotics. I agree that overuse is a problem, but it certainly doesn't seem like you are the type that is going to put Winston on antibiotics for every little thing that bothers him. When he needs it, use them. 

As far as the flea and tick products....vets like to push them. If I can get away with pulling off the occasional tick, I do that. If the dog is crawling with fleas and ticks and it's a matter of his health (I have seen puppies almost die from blood loss due to fleas), then I would use one dose of the product. Once again, it's a matter of moderation and using as little as possible while still keeping the dogs overall health in mind.


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5 (Feb 11, 2010)

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> so we just got back from the vet, and I had some questions since I trust you guys to give an honest 2nd opinion
> 
> 1-my dad who is wary of giving winston fish asked the vet if sardines and maceral were good for dogs. the vet claimed that the oils in sardines and mackeral are bad for dogs and give pancreatitus? yet he claims that a processed fish oil pill is alriight lol.
> 
> ...


so i guess mos there feel it would be in winston's best interest to use it. i'll pick up some plan yogurt tomorrow should i give him a whole yogurt per day? give him one spoon and save the rest?

also ive read that when giving probiotics during a cycle of antibiotics you have to space them out and give one before the other..so when should i give the yogurt if the vet said 2 pills twice per day. the dose given will add up to 2000 mg per day(2 500 pills twice per day)
can i try 1 500 pill twice per day and see if that works?
thanks everyone.


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## KC23 (Nov 17, 2010)

RC - I think you should just follow the vet's instructions. That dose was prescribed due to your dog's weight, and I read that you can give it with or without food. I personally like giving meds with food as it seems to keep my dogs from having any stomach upset. You only need to give Winston a spoonful of yogurt at a time--I'd just mix some in w/his food. Make sure you give him those pills as directed until they are gone. I hope he feels better soon.


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5 (Feb 11, 2010)

KC23 said:


> RC - I think you should just follow the vet's instructions. That dose was prescribed due to your dog's weight, and I read that you can give it with or without food. I personally like giving meds with food as it seems to keep my dogs from having any stomach upset. You only need to give Winston a spoonful of yogurt at a time--I'd just mix some in w/his food. Make sure you give him those pills as directed until they are gone. I hope he feels better soon.


alright thanks. the vet said to give with food. im just a lil nervous giving him the antibiotics but i guess it has to be done. hopefully w/e bad effects it gives him if any arent permanent

like weak ligaments

i think im gonna buy a probiotic for winston on amazon. any reccomendations?


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5 (Feb 11, 2010)

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> alright thanks. the vet said to give with food. im just a lil nervous giving him the antibiotics but i guess it has to be done. hopefully w/e bad effects it gives him if any arent permanent
> 
> like weak ligaments
> 
> i think im gonna buy a probiotic for winston on amazon. any reccomendations?


noone has any probiotic reccomendations??


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## Tobi (Mar 18, 2011)

jdatwood said:


> He obviously learned exactly what Hills wanted him to learn in Vet school about nutrition and nothing else.
> 
> Fish is great for dogs. If it wasn't our dogs would be dead or sick
> 
> ...



AWESOME!!!! she is annihilating that fish!!! :biggrin:


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## jdatwood (Apr 13, 2009)

Tobi said:


> AWESOME!!!! she is annihilating that fish!!! :biggrin:


She annihilates everything we put in front of her


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## runwiththewind (Aug 19, 2011)

May I ask how long you've been seeing your Vet?

Sardines packed in water is ok. Mackeral is also a good choice to add to the diet. 

10 (More) Easy Pieces to Liven Up Your Dog


I think krill oil capsules is good if you want to go that route.

re: flea/tick meds - GreenPaws Flea and Tick Products Directory | Smarter Living 

Flea, Tick Products Draw EPA Scrutiny


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## runwiththewind (Aug 19, 2011)

Forgot to mention I use NaturVet - Enzymes & Probiotics (all ingredients made & sourced in US). 888-628-8783. I'm not a big fan of yogurt - it's high in sugar and dogs can be allergic to dairy products. I previously bought Power Dophilus by Country Life and opened a capsule & mixed it in with their food. My guys are 30-34 lbs. I bought it @ Whole Foods (for people). Hope this helps.


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## catahoulamom (Sep 23, 2010)

RC- I've always used Pet Flora by Vitality Science. It isn't the cheapest but it is soil based rather than lactose derived, which makes more sense to me since dogs are lactose intolerant. I also find I can give less to my larger dogs than other brands, and well, since Winston is huge that's what I'd recommend. 

vitalityscience.com

It's like $25 for 16 capsules (at least at the overpriced store I work at it is)... but like I said a little goes a long way (at least with my dogs).


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5 (Feb 11, 2010)

runwiththewind said:


> Forgot to mention I use NaturVet - Enzymes & Probiotics (all ingredients made & sourced in US). 888-628-8783. I'm not a big fan of yogurt - it's high in sugar and dogs can be allergic to dairy products. I previously bought Power Dophilus by Country Life and opened a capsule & mixed it in with their food. My guys are 30-34 lbs. I bought it @ Whole Foods (for people). Hope this helps.


thanks for the info. how many bacteria are in each serving? also how many different types?
another thing im concerned about is finding a place to buy it that keeps it refrigerated so it doesn't die off.

if you can find me this info id appreciate it..other wise i was considering this product...
Nature's Farmacy - Store - Product Details


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5 (Feb 11, 2010)

Julie said:


> RC- I've always used Pet Flora by Vitality Science. It isn't the cheapest but it is soil based rather than lactose derived, which makes more sense to me since dogs are lactose intolerant. I also find I can give less to my larger dogs than other brands, and well, since Winston is huge that's what I'd recommend.
> 
> vitalityscience.com
> 
> It's like $25 for 16 capsules (at least at the overpriced store I work at it is)... but like I said a little goes a long way (at least with my dogs).


thanks price doesnt matter as im just going to stop once the antibiotics are gone lol
imma check it out.
is this it? so many things came up in the search bar when i put pet flora on their site.
i wish they gave information on what';s in it. also if they refrigerate it

i think i might go with the one i posted above, and some yogurt. i guess i could just buy yoplait ? lol


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## monkeys23 (Dec 8, 2010)

I use Mountain high low fat plain yoghurt (and I eat the vanilla flavor myself). Have also used Nancy's lowfat plain yoghurt.

Do not use Yoplait! Its sugary crap!


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## catahoulamom (Sep 23, 2010)

Pet Flora - Cat / Dog Diarrhea & Vomiting Treatment

thats it. And no, since it is soil based you do not have to refrigerate it. I'm sure whatever you use will work, but no definetly not Yoplait!


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## runwiththewind (Aug 19, 2011)

_ * * * SPAM Removed by moderator * * * _

Any healthfood market would probably carry Country Life in the refrigerated section.

I've been taking probiotics since the '70s and also give it daily to my guys as well, not just when they are on antibiotics. Hope this helps.


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5 (Feb 11, 2010)

thanks for the help everyone i went with natures farmacy's dogzymes and am very happy with my decision...based on the research ive done. cost a lot but w/e

as for the yogurt ive never heard of those brands. i was planning on buying it at the supermarket, didnt wanna buy online or go to a fancy store lol. if i have to do that i'll just stick with the probiotics.

ill wait until the probiotics arrive , and give him his first dose one day before i start the antibiotics 
reccomended dose of probiotics is 1 tbsp for a 100 pound dog once a day, but sicne you can;t overdose on pros, and since he will be on the antis im gonn do 1 tsp twice a day (with each dose of ceph)

hopefully he doesn't get any permanent harm from these antibiotics..and hopefully his infection clears.

the first post about damaged ligaments scared me.


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5 (Feb 11, 2010)

angelbears said:


> I am very anti -- antibiotics. However, they do have their place and should be used when needed. I have been fighting bacterial infections with my guy for 2 years, since he was a puppy. We were on the antibiotics merry-go-round and I think it caused more problems. I can go into more detail if needed but will keep it short here. My guy had the gunky toes and someone suggested Oil of Oregano. It worked wonders. It didn't work on his chin but did miracles on his gunky toes. If you decide to use it I'll be glad to tell you how. If you do use the antibiotic, I would suggest a probiotic. Since he is a large dog, I would check with the vet on which antibiotic he has chosen, some weaken ligaments and are not recommended for large breed dogs while they are still growing.


i tried sending you a PM but you have no button your profile.
id be itnerested in how the antibiotics amde ur guy worse, and if the side effects were permanent and if they even helped the infections?
also which antibiotics cause weak ligaments? hopefully not cephalexin? and are the damages permanent?
i have no choice but to give him the cephalexin once the probiotics come =( his paws are so red


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5 (Feb 11, 2010)

monkeys23 said:


> I use Mountain high low fat plain yoghurt (and I eat the vanilla flavor myself). Have also used Nancy's lowfat plain yoghurt.
> 
> Do not use Yoplait! Its sugary crap!


nancys is available 15 mins from my house.
looks lie very good YOGURT...I THINK I MAY START EATING IT.

i think until the probiotics arrive i will give wisnton two spoonfuls of this perday to prime his body into good bacteria mode. then when the probiotics come i will start him on that and the antibiotics.

the probiotics i bought are a powder that you are supposed to sprinkle onto food. winston has a garbage appetite, so i was thinking of just force feeding the powder down his throat...is that ok

thanks again for the great yogurt reccomendation....
it has to be plain though? i prefer strawberry..but i'l buy a pack of plan if you guys think it's better


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## Porphyria (Jul 13, 2011)

I don't know that you'll really be able to force feed a powder. Because powder is so dry it tends to suck up all of the moisture in the mouth, making it very difficult to swallow. My uncle was showing videos of a firehouse stunt he and the other guys at their station do--if you can swallow a tablespoon of cinnamon without water you get two hundred dollars. No one has won yet (I'm not even sure it's possible) but the videos are entertaining! I definitely recommend mixing it with something rather than trying to get him to swallow straight powder.


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## Unosmom (May 3, 2009)

you can use any brand of yogurt as long as its plain (unsweetened).


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## tem_sat (Jun 20, 2010)

jdatwood said:


> He obviously learned exactly what Hills wanted him to learn in Vet school about nutrition and nothing else.
> 
> Fish is great for dogs. If it wasn't our dogs would be dead or sick


Word.

My Doxie is about 1/10th the size of Winston. He loves and adores his Sardines. He is doing just great, tyvm.

What I would avoid is any cooked fat, such as fat off a rib roast of beef.


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## 1605 (May 27, 2009)

Unosmom said:


> you can use any brand of yogurt as long as its plain (unsweetened).


Agreed!

As for probiotics, there are plenty available at your local drugstore that are far cheaper than those though dedicated pet sites. If you read the ingredients they are usually the SAME thing, just cheaper because you aren't paying for "specialty store" distribution. I bought some at the Walgreens down the street that are the same as the ones at the health food store (& boutique pet shop) at a fraction of the cost.

It's like when we lived on the boat. A stainless steel "marine" screw from West Marine was $3.00. The SAME stainless steel screw from Home Depot was $1.00. :tsk:
 
_Caveat emptor!
_


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5 (Feb 11, 2010)

SubMariner said:


> Agreed!
> 
> As for probiotics, there are plenty available at your local drugstore that are far cheaper than those though dedicated pet sites. If you read the ingredients they are usually the SAME thing, just cheaper because you aren't paying for "specialty store" distribution. I bought some at the Walgreens down the street that are the same as the ones at the health food store (& boutique pet shop) at a fraction of the cost.
> 
> ...


didnt mean to write in caps.
I HAVE A STORE CREDIT FOR PETCO, AND COULD HAVE GOTTEN THEIRS FOR FREE, but we ordered the ones online because probiotics are USELESS if they are not refrigerated. not only that but in order to be effective they must have BILLIONS of bacteria WITH SEVERAL different strains..and petcos were garbage. the ones i ordered online have 5 different bacterias, and over 5 billion bacteria per TEASPOON.

it also ha a 3 year shelf life w/o refrigeration, and had been raved about all over the internet!!! it cost 33 dollars for 1 pound though lol.

to be honest though, i regret ordering it. the yogurt that was reccomended in this thread (nancys) has BILLIONS of several bacteria per 1/4 teaspoon, and is refrigerated obviously. and it's 5 dollars and will be easieer to give than a powder.

but i guess having the probiotics to add to his daily routine even when he comes off the antibiotics can;t hurt.
i'll probably start the antibiotics tomorrow even though the probiotics haven't arrived. I have been giving him a heaping tablespoon of yogurt twice a day. today is day 2.

i'll do everything in my power to make sure he's alright on the antis.


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## angelbears (Jun 9, 2011)

Dog Antibiotics Side Effects - VetInfo

Maybe I came on too strong about antibiotics. They do have there place but overuse can cause some very bad problems. In my case I let my vet keep prescribing different antibiotics to get rid of very bad chin acne(bacterial infection), he still has it, now has a yeast imbalance, has built up resistance to antibiotics, and when he was around 11 months damaged the ligament behind the stifle, ex-ray could not confirm if it was a tear or stretched, this was attributed to the antibiotic Baytril. The first vet never prescribed a probiotic and overlooked that Cane is a giant breed and was still growing rapidly at 11 months and should not have been on certain antibiotics. 

Personally, from now on I will try something other than an antibiotic first, unless it is dire and professional opinion is that only an antibiotic will work.

I will always use a probiotic and limit physical activity, so as not to put undo pressure on his cartilage/ligaments. 

Most dogs are fine with antibiotics.


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## frogdog (Aug 10, 2011)

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> so we just got back from the vet, and I had some questions since I trust you guys to give an honest 2nd opinion
> 
> 1-my dad who is wary of giving winston fish asked the vet if sardines and maceral were good for dogs. the vet claimed that the oils in sardines and mackeral are bad for dogs and give pancreatitus? yet he claims that a processed fish oil pill is alriight lol.
> 
> ...


Have you looked to see if there are any Holistic/Integrative Vets in your area or one that supports PMR? Not saying anything is wrong with your current one but it might be a good try. I've recently found such a vet an hour away and seriously thinking of making an appointment. 

I have never heard anything negative about feeding sardines to your dogs except to make there is no salt added and in water.

I use Advantage Multi on my dog at this time which protects against heartworms, fleas, etc.
It has worked very well but will be changing when the 6 month pack is finished. I'm sure it is not great for our beloved pets but the alternative is worse. I've rescued dogs with heartworms and had to put them thru treatment - not so good.

Antibiotics are not good for us or our pets but the risk of getting a bacterial infection in his system would be much more of a concern. There are going to be necessary times.

Yay for putting on weight!


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5 (Feb 11, 2010)

frogdog said:


> Have you looked to see if there are any Holistic/Integrative Vets in your area or one that supports PMR? Not saying anything is wrong with your current one but it might be a good try. I've recently found such a vet an hour away and seriously thinking of making an appointment.
> 
> I have never heard anything negative about feeding sardines to your dogs except to make there is no salt added and in water.
> 
> ...


i dont feed PMR but i think it would be nice to have a vet who understand that dogs do best on PMR. i guess i just search for hollistic vets?
i was thining of giving sentinel tabs. they protect against worms and fleas..and had a low risk rating on that greenpaws link posted in this thread.

yeah, we will be starting the cephelexin tomorrow morning now that winston has some yogurt in him 

a question i have about the sentinel tablets is...that on petmeds.com it says that a prescription is required to get sentinel....but when i added it to my cart..it says i can order it and everything....and i have no prescription..is petmeds legit???


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## frogdog (Aug 10, 2011)

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> i dont feed PMR but i think it would be nice to have a vet who understand that dogs do best on PMR. i guess i just search for hollistic vets?
> i was thining of giving sentinel tabs. they protect against worms and fleas..and had a low risk rating on that greenpaws link posted in this thread.
> 
> yeah, we will be starting the cephelexin tomorrow morning now that winston has some yogurt in him
> ...


I can't recall the site right now that listed Holistic vets or support raw diets but will try and let you know.

I have never ordered off Pet Meds because they are more expensive than vets in my area. I do beleive my father has ordered flea patrol before - Frontline. They are a legit site but to me prices are inflated.


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

frogdog said:


> I can't recall the site right now that listed Holistic vets or support raw diets but will try and let you know.
> 
> I have never ordered off Pet Meds because they are more expensive than vets in my area. I do beleive my father has ordered flea patrol before - Frontline. They are a legit site but to me prices are inflated.


If you look up "Holistic vets in xyz area" you will find your list!:smile:
(However remember just because they are holistic does NOT mean that they will support PMR/raw(there are like 25 or 30 on the Washington list and only a for sure 3 do!!)....but for RC there is a good chance that they will support feeding cooked meat..and with canned thats what you are feeding!:smile


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## 1605 (May 27, 2009)

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> didnt mean to write in caps.
> I HAVE A STORE CREDIT FOR PETCO, AND COULD HAVE GOTTEN THEIRS FOR FREE, but we ordered the ones online because probiotics are USELESS if they are not refrigerated. not only that but in order to be effective they must have BILLIONS of bacteria WITH SEVERAL different strains..and petcos were garbage. the ones i ordered online have 5 different bacterias, and over 5 billion bacteria per TEASPOON.
> 
> it also ha a 3 year shelf life w/o refrigeration, and had been raved about all over the internet!!! it cost 33 dollars for 1 pound though lol.
> ...


In the end you need to be a savvy consumer & do your homework. Just because something costs a lot of money or is "raved about all over the internet" doesn't make it a better product.

READ THE LABELS AND DO THE COMPARISONS. Don't get sucked into paying too much for something that you could have gotten much cheaper at one of your local pharmacies or grocery stores.


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