# Best kibble for an elderly dog? (Puppy question, too!)



## BarbaraClark (Oct 23, 2011)

Hi guys! Kibble feeder here. Don't have the freezer space or time for raw at the moment, so please bare with me. Lol. Anyways, all of my dogs are on TOTW Pacific Stream. I have 4 dogs. A Pit Bull, a Rhodesian Ridgeback, a mixed breed puppy, and a Dachshund. The two more active dogs are given eggs twice a week, and all of them are given turkey necks once a week and they are all gorged once a week. 

My question is: recently I have been thinking about the fact that my Dachshund, Penny, is almost 11 years old. I have been doing reading and have found that diets such as TOTW that are high in protein and calories can cause a lot of problems for my Penny in her old age. So, I want to switch her to something more "senior specific". Something low in protein, calories, and sodium. Any suggestions are welcome and I would appreciate if you would tell me why you recommend whatever dog food you may advise.

The puppy question: my mixed breed puppy is 16 weeks old and quite active. Is TOTW all life stages really a good idea to feed him or should I temporarily switch him to something more focused on a puppy's needs? All suggestions are welcome on that, too.

One more thing...I am aware of the recent Diamond recalls, but do not let that stop you from recommending a Diamond brand to me. I do not want this to turn into a Diamond debate, but I am not against feeding Diamond because of the recalls. I think they are a great company that makes nutritional food. That is all I have to say on the subject. 

Thanks guys! Hope you're helpful as always!


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## Jacksons Mom (Jun 13, 2010)

It's up for debate whether seniors need a low protein food - if anything, I've heard, they can utilize MORE protein.

According to Whole Dog Journal, because senior dogs’ systems are less efficient at metabolizing protein, they actually need more protein than previously thought. If they don’t get a high enough level of protein, muscle wasting can occur because the body breaks down the muscle tissue to get what it needs.



> One concern in feeding older dogs a high-protein diet has always been the potential effect on kidney function. It has long been believed that feeding a food with a lower protein content would protect the dog’s aging kidneys by lessening the workload. Recent research, however, proves that the right type of protein does not damage the kidneys, and feeding a lower protein diet does not protect them. In fact, even senior dogs who only had one kidney and were fed a high protein diet outlived seniors who were fed a low protein diet. A similar finding was made regarding long-held concerns about high protein and liver disease. Some doubted the benefits of the low-protein diet for seniors long ago: back in 1994, in an article in Veterinary Forum (September 1994), Dr. Delmar Finco stated that "benefits from a reduced protein diet typical of existing canine geriatric products have never been proven, and the possibility exists that reduced protein diets are not in the best interest of the geriatric patient."


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## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

Agree with Brittany- senior dogs generally need more protein.. what about Nutrisource or Earthborn? Both similar foods to ToTW.. but aren't Diamond. I know you say you have no problem with them but with their track record and no testing of product, as well as the FDA report saying the plant was disgusting and in a state of disrepair.. you SHOULD care. It's not just about ingredients, the company that makes it is important as well.


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## InkedMarie (Sep 9, 2011)

I also agree, senior dogs need higher protein. Is your older dog overweight at all? If yes, try Wellness Core's reduced fat. She may have a bit of arthritis, some say grainfree is better for that. This food did great on a senior dog that I adopted. She came to me obese which is the main reason I went with it.


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## BarbaraClark (Oct 23, 2011)

Thanks for the advice!

She's not horribly fat, but she definitely has weight on her that I can't seem to shake off of her. She's a standard Doxie at 17 lbs and I'd like her to lose maybe 2 more. What are the opinions on caloric intake for senior dogs? Less or more? She does well on TOTW, but something more specific I feel would do her better in the long run. She has aged well an has no grey, but I feel like she is beginning to come to the point where we actually need to be concerned with her age.

Any input on my puppy question?


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## InkedMarie (Sep 9, 2011)

BarbaraClark said:


> Thanks for the advice!
> 
> She's not horribly fat, but she definitely has weight on her that I can't seem to shake off of her. She's a standard Doxie at 17 lbs and I'd like her to lose maybe 2 more. What are the opinions on caloric intake for senior dogs? Less or more? She does well on TOTW, but something more specific I feel would do her better in the long run. She has aged well an has no grey, but I feel like she is beginning to come to the point where we actually need to be concerned with her age.
> 
> Any input on my puppy question?


I definitely think the Core would be great. Feed her the amount that she should eat for what she should weigh, then go up or down from there. I can't help with the puppy, I don't do puppies LOL


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## PDXdogmom (Jun 30, 2010)

I have an 11 yr. old golden who handles all the Acana grain free formulas quite well; and they have somewhere between 32-34% protein and 17-18% fat. He is only moderately active. I simply adjust his calories to his level of exercise. Nothing magical about "senior" foods - I tend to think the majority are marketing gimmicks.

Current findings indicate that lower protein isn't necessary for the average dog and that they actually may need more. Here is a link plus a quote from an abstract about the subject:

Pet food safety: dietary protein. [Top Companion Anim Med. 2008] - PubMed - NCBI

_Protein restriction for healthy older dogs is not only unnecessary, it can be detrimental. Protein requirements actually increase by about 50% in older dogs, while their energy requirements tend to decrease.
_
I think the "all life stages" grain-free formulas would be fine for your puppy also. Otherwise you might want to take a look at Fromm Puppy Gold. It's done well for many people.

Puppy Gold dog food - Fromm Family Foods


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## BarbaraClark (Oct 23, 2011)

Fromm looks awesome. Anybody have experience with Orijen? Their Senior food looks amazing.


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## Makovach (Jan 24, 2012)

I feed PMR, but when recommending Orijen is my go to food. Orijen has senior, adult, puppy and two all life stage foods. I would also recommend EVO, but I'm not sure if their foods are labeled adult/puppy/senior/ALS. 

I do not have older dogs, or kibble fed dogs for that matter, but I work in a pet store. We see people coming in day in and day out with fat old dogs or skinny lanky puppies. I always recommend Orijen or Evo and when the people come back, they are hooked. I have not had one customer, family member or friend that has switched to orijen or evo be upset with it, they love it, their dogs love it and their dogs do great on it. The main complait I hear about the foods is that it caused large amounts of gas, vomiting or diarrhea. Usually, the cause is that they feed too much. When talking to the Orijen reps/owner, they recommended feeding 1/3 of what is recommended on the bag and going by the dog's weight as to if they need more or less. And if there was digestive upset, cut the amount down a little at a time. Orijen is also a reliable company and that is important to me. I've switched many from TOTW to Orijen and they were amazed at the difference. Things they didn't realize could have been a problem changed. 

Good luck to you on what ever you choose! Keep in mind that every kibble food is not for every dog.


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## kaliberknl (May 9, 2012)

BarbaraClark said:


> Fromm looks awesome. Anybody have experience with Orijen? Their Senior food looks amazing.


My relatively active but house bound setters love Orijen. Both Champion(Acana/Orijen) and Fromm own their own plants and claim to preclude Chinese vitamins.


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