# Fish questions



## Nana52 (Apr 28, 2012)

I know I'm not to the fish feeding point yet, but I understand they need omega 3, and I'm just not happy with any of the fish oil supplements I've seen (either contain mixed or d-tocopherols - that's the soy one, right - or rosemary extract - trying to avoid because "may" trigger seizures). I'm fairly certain I've seen anchovy, mackerel, and those little skinny silver ones the name of which I can't recall at the Asian market. When it's time to add fish, is there anything specific I need to look for and/or avoid? I could give a canned sardine about once a week, rinsing first because of salt. I know that's not ideal. I can get some salmon, but the parasite thing bothers me more than somewhat. If it's cooked, would that take away the omega 3 benefit? I can get some grass-fed chicken at one local store, can't feed exclusively because of cost, but if I fed that some, will that help at all with the whole omega-3 thing?

Questions, questions .... so many questions.


----------



## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

I use fish oil for mine, since I don't have any good oily fish here that doesn't come from the Pacific northwest.

I'm not for sure about the increased omegas from grass fed chicken. If I'm not mistaken thats only in red meats. Could be wrong, just I've always heard of it being grass fed only red meats.

Keep asking questions! It's how you learn.


----------



## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

i don't use fish oil.

you can find canned sardines with no salt added but they are a little harder to find - I found them either in the expensive organic section and oddly enough cheap-o places like Big Lots.

You want oily fish - sardines, mackerel are good. There are several other that I can't remember but someone else will.

I dont' feed salmon - WAY too expensive and IMO just not worth the cost when you get get the same thing alot cheaper with other fish. Also, larger fish tuna (which is oily) are more likely to have mercury.

The little fish you have seen in the grocery are probably smelt. They are cheap but aren't an oily fish.


----------



## Nana52 (Apr 28, 2012)

Yes, smelt is the name I couldn't remember. Didn't know if oily or not. Didn't realize about the grass-fed beef, not chicken, being better. Well, I guess grass-fed anything is better, but not specifically to the O3 question. I haven't found canned sardines without salt, but I'll keep looking. I'll see what else they have at the asian market next time I go as well. And when I get to the feeding fish part, it's not something that needs to be fed often, is it? I just want some O3 to balance the O6 in the not-grass-fed meats, right? Are am I totally off track?

Thanks for input


----------



## SaharaNight Boxers (Jun 28, 2011)

The Wholistic Pet

We're using that one. It has nothing added except vitamin E. I think we're also going to do a fish day once a week with sardines. I like that they have one of the lowest mercury levels.


----------



## Nana52 (Apr 28, 2012)

SaharaNight Boxers said:


> The Wholistic Pet
> 
> We're using that one. It has nothing added except vitamin E. I think we're also going to do a fish day once a week with sardines. I like that they have one of the lowest mercury levels.


The vitamin E in fish oils is usually my problem. A lot are synthetic and the "natural" ones are most often from soy. I looked at the one you mentioned, and it doesn't specify the type of E, and also doesn't say "no soy" .... but it looks like a possibility. I'll see if I can contact the company to find out about the E source. All things considered, I'd rather use fish but want to be sure I'm using the right kind.


----------



## EchoEcho (Feb 22, 2012)

SaharaNight Boxers said:


> The Wholistic Pet
> 
> We're using that one. It has nothing added except vitamin E. I think we're also going to do a fish day once a week with sardines. I like that they have one of the lowest mercury levels.


I use the same salmon oil! Can't always find the no salt canned fish, and only get grocery store meats - so not grass fed. Simple and easy to do oil daily and I know she's getting a good balance.


----------



## twotonelover (Jan 10, 2011)

I can get whole frozen sardines for around $5 for 2lbs I believe. Pretty decent. They're individually frozen in a bag, the company is called Gonsalves. I've also seen salmon heads and tails for cheap, .75-.99/lb. Rosey got her first salmon tail today and it had quite a bit of meat on it. The head looks fairly boney. 

Salmon, sardines, mackerel, anchovies, sprats and herring are good, possibly lake trout and sturgeon as well.


----------



## kathylcsw (Jul 31, 2011)

I have been feeding lake trout that I got from CL. I recently bought some mackerel at a local international store that they will get soon because I am almost out of trout, I feed a fish meal 3-4 times per month.


----------



## doggiedad (Jan 23, 2011)

when feeding can fish use the in water, no salt added. i use salmon oil from
Vitalchoice.com. i use the human grade not the pet quality. i also grind flax seed.
i put it in a jar and refrigerate it.


----------



## Nana52 (Apr 28, 2012)

doggiedad said:


> when feeding can fish use the in water, no salt added. i use salmon oil from
> Vitalchoice.com. i use the human grade not the pet quality. i also grind flax seed.
> i put it in a jar and refrigerate it.


The canned fish I get is in water, but haven't found a no salt version yet. I think I'll probably go with the mackerel and anchovy (hopefully other oily fish) from the Asian market when I get to feeding fish. I hope that can be soon (I know, don't rush introducing a lot of new protein) because they're skin is kinda dry and itchy, but not in major distress from it I don't think. I'll look at the Vitalchoice you mentioned. From what I've read, flax seed/oil not a good choice, because dogs can't utilize it or break it down the same as humans. Of course, everyone has a different opinion, right? Thanks.

P.S. Looked at the one you mention. I'm encouraged that it says "no artificial preservatives, no soy" Now if I can verify there's no rosemary, this could be the one!


----------



## Nana52 (Apr 28, 2012)

kathylcsw said:


> I have been feeding lake trout that I got from CL. I recently bought some mackerel at a local international store that they will get soon because I am almost out of trout, I feed a fish meal 3-4 times per month.



So, obviously not something they need on a daily basis. One oily fish meal per week would probably suffice, right?


----------



## Nana52 (Apr 28, 2012)

twotonelover said:


> I can get whole frozen sardines for around $5 for 2lbs I believe. Pretty decent. They're individually frozen in a bag, the company is called Gonsalves. I've also seen salmon heads and tails for cheap, .75-.99/lb. Rosey got her first salmon tail today and it had quite a bit of meat on it. The head looks fairly boney.
> 
> Salmon, sardines, mackerel, anchovies, sprats and herring are good, possibly lake trout and sturgeon as well.


I know the Asian market has mackerel (whole), anchovies (frozen), and possibly/probably others. Thing about the Asian market, labels not always in English, can be hard to decipher ya know. But I'm sure I can get some of the fish I need there, and can maybe substitute canned when absolutely necessary.

Thanks to all for your help.


----------



## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Cooking fish doesn't hurt omegas as fats are pretty resilient to high temps. 

I would avoid feeding fish on the list in this list based on their mercury content. While feeding these fishes every once in a while is ok, I wouldn't make it regular habit. 

Highest mercury
(more than 0.55 parts/million)

• King mackerel
• Shark*
• Swordfish
• Tilefish*
• Orange roughy*
• Marlin*
• Grouper* 


High mercury
(0.26-0.55 parts/million)

• American/Maine lobster
• Bluefish
• Sea trout
• Bluefin and Ahi tuna (fresh)
• Tuna (canned, white Albacore)
• Halibut
• Croaker
• Saltwater bass* 



Lower mercury
(0.12-0.25 parts/million)

• Tuna (fresh Pacific Albacore)
• Tuna
(canned, chunk light)
• Cod*
• Skate
• Freshwater perch
• Monkfish*
• Snow crab
• Herring
• Blue crab
• Snapper*
• Dungeness crab
• Mahi Mahi 



Lowest mercury
(less than 0.12 parts/million)

• Freshwater trout
• Sturgeon (farmed)
• Sardines
• Oysters
• Tilapia
• Clams
• Shrimp
• Salmon
• Crawfish
• Crayfish
• Sole
• Shad
• Spiny lobster
• Rock lobster
• Herring
• Hake
• Haddock*
• Flounder*
• Scallops
• Ocean perch
• Whitefish
• Catfish
• Pollock
• King crab*
• Caviar (farmed)
• Calamari/squid
• Butterfish
• Anchovies


----------



## Chocx2 (Nov 16, 2009)

Danemama

How about Bonita, it looks kinda like a tuna I caught one and didn't want to waist it and an going to feed it? Oh and mullet?


----------



## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Chocx2 said:


> Danemama
> 
> How about Bonita, it looks kinda like a tuna I caught one and didn't want to waist it and an going to feed it? Oh and mullet?


Looks like bonito is fairly high in mercury:

NRDC: Mercury Contamination in Fish - Guide to Mercury in Sushi

Mullet is very low in mercury, but the quality of this fish I have no idea. They seem to be on par with catfish and tilapia which both aren't the best out there.


----------



## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

when in season, sardines and anchovies are what we feed...plus we get sardines from our co op....i would feed herring, too.

vital choice is an excellent brand for salmon oil and they do not use rosemary, at least not in their human salmon oil...i wish i could use their products....but my dogs did not do well on salmon oil..

we use carlson's and i had to call them to learn they got their e from sunflower oil, not soy.


----------



## Nana52 (Apr 28, 2012)

magicre said:


> when in season, sardines and anchovies are what we feed...plus we get sardines from our co op....i would feed herring, too.
> 
> vital choice is an excellent brand for salmon oil and they do not use rosemary, at least not in their human salmon oil...i wish i could use their products....but my dogs did not do well on salmon oil..
> 
> we use carlson's and i had to call them to learn they got their e from sunflower oil, not soy.


Could you, would you possibly point me to the Exact Version of Carlson's you're using? I've looked at so may, I'm sure I'm totally confused .... again! I want to eventually feed whole fish, but I think they could use a little something now, as their skin seems kinda dry and itchy. Or may just hold off, since they're early in the switch to raw?


----------



## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

Nana52 said:


> Could you, would you possibly point me to the Exact Version of Carlson's you're using? I've looked at so may, I'm sure I'm totally confused .... again! I want to eventually feed whole fish, but I think they could use a little something now, as their skin seems kinda dry and itchy. Or may just hold off, since they're early in the switch to raw?


i called them. you're not far off from feeding fish.....get them used to chicken with bone and chicken without bone and you could add fish in for the next protein. 

you'll love that one. if they are as picky as my dogs were, we battled royale before they ate fish without fighting me LOL


----------



## Nana52 (Apr 28, 2012)

magicre said:


> i called them. you're not far off from feeding fish.....get them used to chicken with bone and chicken without bone and you could add fish in for the next protein.
> 
> you'll love that one. if they are as picky as my dogs were, we battled royale before they ate fish without fighting me LOL


They've also had some small bites of turkey mixed in the past couple of days, and I want to try turkey necks soon, because they're lower in fat than chicken necks. I can get them whole and break them down into serving pieces, or could give them whole, but I'm not sure I'd be able to judge when to take away when they'd had their limit. Their poop is not "perfect" ... whatever that means. Some are soft, some are more firm, some are half and half?? If my calculations are right, their daily/weekly amounts of food is 3.5 lbs each so small, a 10% bone requirement comes to only 5.6 oz per week, not much, but still trying to get the boneless meals/bone-in meals balanced out so as not to cause butt issues. 

Sorry, that was off track. I guess I was thinking beef would be next (gonna skip pork for now), which I suspect Kacy is going to have a problem with, or he always did with cooked beef. We shall see. But if you think I'll be able to get to fish pretty soon, I'll hold off on a supplement. They have fresh mackerel at the Asian market; would I need to freeze for a period of time before feeding? I think their anchovy is frozen. Do I need to be concerned about "country of origin" for the Asian market fish? Assuming I can even find out where their stuff comes from.

Thanks ever so.


----------



## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

you're trying to balance each meal. in truth, what you want to be doing is a transition which, unfortunately for your nerves is bone heavy. LOL

sorry. laughing but not at you, well maybe a tiny little bit...

right now, chicken and turkey is fine....just make sure it's not enhanced....the stools will even themselves out....weighing food is more important at this point than figuring out the 80-10-10 thing

i know you want to keep things on a low fat basis because of the fear of pancreatitis....so try this.

take equal part of:

raw pumpkin seeds
raw sesame seeds with hull
chia seeds
sunflower seeds

grind just enough to break the seeds up..... in a coffee grinder or whatever chopper thingy you have and give each dog a tablespoon. it is plant fat, to be sure, but it's less of a fear for you..and will help their fur and skin until you can wrap your head around feeding real animal fat, which is what they need.

feeding real fish is good, too..and buying it frozen is fine and usually cheaper, so if you can get anchovies, that's awesome...spanish mackerel is a good fish as are sardines and herring.....
try not to buy fresh. more expensive.

frozen is what you're going to do anyway and dogs don't care whether fish is frozen or not.

don't worry about supps yet..


----------



## Nana52 (Apr 28, 2012)

I wasn't so much trying to "balance" each meal as trying to get the right amount of boneless and bone-in so the poop isn't too soft or too hard. I can't foresee me ever getting over my fear of bones but I'm trying to do the best for them in spite of that fear (giving them RMB with a big ole smile on my face so they don't know I'm scared s...less). So a little soft poop, a little firmer poop, no big cause for concern?

Chicken and turkey not enhanced. I'm a fanatic label reader. If in doubt (chicken in Asian market not labeled other than to say it's chicken), so I don't buy there. Frozen fish okay, not fresh which would need to be frozen before feeding anyway ... check.

I'll try not to mind being laughed at. I'll think about the seed recommendation (giving ground pumpkin seed right now, along with GSE for tapeworms .... not seeing any more worm bits but going to continue 10-day course per Liz). I'm planning a trip to the Asian market next weekend. Maybe if all goes well this week, I can start slipping in a bit of fish a time or two a week? They're not miserably scratching and shredding themselves or anything, just more itching than usual .... or so it seems to me. Maybe not.


----------



## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

Nana, you are a trooper. You are doing fine. Some of the scratching is from toxins coming out of their system which can make their skin dry and their coat thin for a while. That's all good because it means you are getting a clean and healthier immune system. We can't undo all the damage from toxins, commercial foods, etc but raw feeding really goes a long way toward health. Fish can be a little rich so if you start them just add a tiny amount to their current food untilt hey can handle a whole meal of fish. My shelties can now handle a whole sardine - they are about 8 inches long, frozen but fresh caught and love it but it took a little while.


----------



## Nana52 (Apr 28, 2012)

Liz said:


> Nana, you are a trooper. You are doing fine. Some of the scratching is from toxins coming out of their system which can make their skin dry and their coat thin for a while. That's all good because it means you are getting a clean and healthier immune system. We can't undo all the damage from toxins, commercial foods, etc but raw feeding really goes a long way toward health. Fish can be a little rich so if you start them just add a tiny amount to their current food untilt hey can handle a whole meal of fish. My shelties can now handle a whole sardine - they are about 8 inches long, frozen but fresh caught and love it but it took a little while.


I was wondering if that might be at least partially what was going on. Even though we're coming from home cooked rather than kibble, there's still bound to be some "stuff" that needs to work itself out, right? I think all things considered, they're doing pretty well. As for me ... well ... I'm an ongoing, ongoing work in progress ....

Fish (or anything new, right?), intro slowly, tiny amount .... check :thumb:


----------



## frogdog (Aug 10, 2011)

Here are a couple links magicre informed me about in the past...

FREE High Omega 3 Fish Guide, Omega 3 Foods List | Gene Smart

Best Omega 3 Food: Fish and Seafood | The Rebuild Blog

I, personally, feed whole sardines and anchovies from a local Indian Grocery...my dog loves 'em.


----------

