# Leaning towards PMR



## frogdog

I stated the following in my "hello introduction" and realized this is where I should post the following....


I have a 15 month French Bulldog, Yogi, who has been battling allergies since early spring. We had an allergy panel completed along with many vet visits. Unfortunately, he has just as much outside environmental allergens....different grasses, trees, weeds, etc....along with food. I have always been a believer in better food consumption for our furry family members. I, myself, have been a strict organic mostly raw eater for 7 yrs. Yogi was having the pleasure...I say this with laughter....enjoying home cooked food especially made for him by yours truly. This has been an expensive ($100 a week because we basically stink at it - economically) and time consuming endeavor and have turned to Stella and Chewy's premade raw patties. I was looking into switching to Paw Naturaw Raw Frozen Grinds (B.A.R.F.) but have since been researching PMR and highly considering. Any and all opinions are welcome.


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## monkeys23

You will love PMR!! I say go for it!

Its so much more fun for both you and the dogs, plus cheaper and you can source locally if you are good at making friends with butchers, etc., not to mention the dental benefits! :smile:


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## frogdog

My little guy is so EXTREMELY picky that it's on the border of insanity, lol. My concern is will he go for the raw. Does anyone just feed organic raw? It seems this would be a really expensive form of feeding but what I've read on here seems otherwise. Also, do I understand correctly that you do not have to supplement on PMR?


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## schtuffy

I feed organic raw, or try to mostly. Whether or not you can afford it is up to you and the prices in your area. My dog is also only 12 lbs, so feeding organic is doable. Sometimes I don't feed organic if I can't find it at a decent price, but I try.

You will find on here that many of us are supportive of grass fed meats as well, and ultimately it's not the organic vs. non-organic that matters, as much as it is feeding a species appropriate diet of fresh foods.


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## frogdog

monkeys23 said:


> You will love PMR!! I say go for it!
> 
> Its so much more fun for both you and the dogs, plus cheaper and you can source locally if you are good at making friends with butchers, etc., not to mention the dental benefits! :smile:


This will be interesting since I am not a meat eater and will def have to make friends with "the butchers". What are the best ways to purchase raw other than co-ops? It is hard to find anyone in my area doing the "raw way" )


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## frogdog

schtuffy said:


> I feed organic raw, or try to mostly. Whether or not you can afford it is up to you and the prices in your area. My dog is also only 12 lbs, so feeding organic is doable. Sometimes I don't feed organic if I can't find it at a decent price, but I try.
> 
> You will find on here that many of us are supportive of grass fed meats as well, and ultimately it's not the organic vs. non-organic that matters, as much as it is feeding a species appropriate diet of fresh foods.


This is good to know...unfortunately, there are only 2 places in my area to buy organic and meats come already pre-packaged boneless.


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## minnieme

A good butcher can be your best friend. We were really struggling here....but we ultimately turned to: cheap deals at the grocery store, restaurant caterers and providers, and our awesome butcher - who we definitely had to search around for! Now we are so lucky to have him though.  (and this is feeding a dog over 100 lbs)

Also, if there are co-ops in your area, go for it....you can get lots of exotic stuff (later on of course), but around here, it's mostly too expensive to go through them.


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## xellil

Alot of folks just get meat from the grocery store. I don't belong to a co-op, I buy from ethnic supermarkets, the grocery store, and a company (My Pet Carnivore) that sells raw for dogs. I get all the good stuff from them like spleen, pancreas, rabbit, etc.

My dog with the environmental allergies still has them - sneezing, runny eyes, etc. Raw helped alot, but not that.

good luck, if you go to raw with your dog you won't be sorry.


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## frogdog

minnieme said:


> A good butcher can be your best friend. We were really struggling here....but we ultimately turned to: cheap deals at the grocery store, restaurant caterers and providers, and our awesome butcher - who we definitely had to search around for! Now we are so lucky to have him though.  (and this is feeding a dog over 100 lbs)
> 
> Also, if there are co-ops in your area, go for it....you can get lots of exotic stuff (later on of course), but around here, it's mostly too expensive to go through them.


No co-ops here already checked but there is one 2 hrs away. Don't know how convenient that would be. I will prob have to just start buying at our local Publix or another grocery for now. I do have about a month left of Stella and Chewy's but want to get everything ready for "the change" )


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## PennyGreyhuahua

before got my dog to raw...we never go to butchers or check out meats! after couple trips since u have to ask about chicken necks, backs, parts that most ppl dont want...most likely butchers or staff there will remember u! :wink: then u'll realize what days the fresh bones/meats comes out & easier for u to get them..trust me...u want bony meats so he wont get loose stools & bad teeth/breath...Penny's plaque from kibble already scrapped off from the raw bones!

be careful of the ingrediants on the PMR because most of the time they add supplements, fruits & vegetables etc which ur dog may not digest it anyways...check out if the brand offers meats & organs only...


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## frogdog

xellil said:


> Alot of folks just get meat from the grocery store. I don't belong to a co-op, I buy from ethnic supermarkets, the grocery store, and a company (My Pet Carnivore) that sells raw for dogs. I get all the good stuff from them like spleen, pancreas, rabbit, etc.
> 
> My dog with the environmental allergies still has them - sneezing, runny eyes, etc. Raw helped alot, but not that.
> 
> good luck, if you go to raw with your dog you won't be sorry.


Thanks so Much! We are looking forward to the winter because mostly his allergic reactions to the outside world are due to any and about every kind of weed out there. So, here's to the cold killing them all!!! The side effects from his allergies are skin breakouts with hair loss He acts fine and happy but wears the signs. It looks like the local grocery stores are going to be the best for us to begin with especially since you start out on chicken.


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## xellil

frogdog said:


> Thanks so Much! We are looking forward to the winter because mostly his allergic reactions to the outside world are due to any and about every kind of weed out there. So, here's to the cold killing them all!!! The side effects from his allergies are skin breakouts with hair loss He acts fine and happy but wears the signs. It looks like the local grocery stores are going to be the best for us to begin with especially since you start out on chicken.


Amen to that. My poor dog, even though we clean her eyes twice a day, constantly runs **** down her face. Right now we are trying Benadryl.

On the other hand, raw grew her bald spots back, and did a whole bunch of other good stuff.

one thing I didn't know until I came here - alot of chicken is "enhanced" with salt water - you don't want that. If you look on the back of the package, it will have a huge salt amout and then you know not to buy it, no matter what it says on the front of the package.

We normally shop at Kroger, and there is not one single package of chicken in that store that I've ever seen that's not enhanced. Except maybe gizzards.


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## frogdog

PennyGreyhuahua said:


> before got my dog to raw...we never go to butchers or check out meats! after couple trips since u have to ask about chicken necks, backs, parts that most ppl dont want...most likely butchers or staff there will remember u! :wink: then u'll realize what days the fresh bones/meats comes out & easier for u to get them..trust me...u want bony meats so he wont get loose stools & bad teeth/breath...Penny's plaque from kibble already scrapped off from the raw bones!
> 
> be careful of the ingrediants on the PMR because most of the time they add supplements, fruits & vegetables etc which ur dog may not digest it anyways...check out if the brand offers meats & organs only...


This is great because I am not a connoisseur of meats by any means. I don't eat meat myself so need guidance. I have about a month left of Stella and Chewy's and diving into PMR. I have given so much food away the last couple of months due to my picky little eater that I'm adamant about finishing what's left...tired of seeing money wasted. You are correct about premade there are added fruits and veggies but picked the best on the market I could find.


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## schtuffy

frogdog said:


> My little guy is so EXTREMELY picky that it's on the border of insanity, lol. My concern is will he go for the raw. Does anyone just feed organic raw? It seems this would be a really expensive form of feeding but what I've read on here seems otherwise. Also, do I understand correctly that you do not have to supplement on PMR?


I forgot to add, a lot of people on here also struggle with picky eaters. I am fortunate that my dog is part piglet :biggrin: But basically no dog will starve itself, so if you start and he's not eating, you can always try what we call 'tough love.' If he doesn't eat it, take it away after 15 minutes, and don't feed anything until the next meal. Sometimes when you start raw, another thing is that some dogs don't know_ how_ to eat it. You have a Frenchie too, and we all know how tough life can be for them :biggrin: He may have to learn how to use his jaw muscles and figure out how to eat. It's as much a learning experience for them as it is for us sometimes.

Another option for raw meats might be local farms. I found a couple in my area, some even do bulk orders, which is too bad because I have zero freezer space...

Many of us supplement with salmon oil for omega-3's, but for the most part, that's it! :smile:


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## frogdog

xellil said:


> Amen to that. My poor dog, even though we clean her eyes twice a day, constantly runs **** down her face. Right now we are trying Benadryl.
> 
> On the other hand, raw grew her bald spots back, and did a whole bunch of other good stuff.
> 
> one thing I didn't know until I came here - alot of chicken is "enhanced" with salt water - you don't want that. If you look on the back of the package, it will have a huge salt amout and then you know not to buy it, no matter what it says on the front of the package.
> 
> We normally shop at Kroger, and there is not one single package of chicken in that store that I've ever seen that's not enhanced. Except maybe gizzards.



Wow, good to know...being one that doesn't eat meat didn't know about added salt. My intention will be to feed organic or at least free range grass fed. My doggie looks like he had the chicken-pox and has all these little areas of hair loss


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## magicre

welcome to the forum and welcome to raw....


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## frogdog

schtuffy said:


> I forgot to add, a lot of people on here also struggle with picky eaters. I am fortunate that my dog is part piglet :biggrin: But basically no dog will starve itself, so if you start and he's not eating, you can always try what we call 'tough love.' If he doesn't eat it, take it away after 15 minutes, and don't feed anything until the next meal. Sometimes when you start raw, another thing is that some dogs don't know_ how_ to eat it. You have a Frenchie too, and we all know how tough life can be for them :biggrin: He may have to learn how to use his jaw muscles and figure out how to eat. It's as much a learning experience for them as it is for us sometimes.
> 
> Another option for raw meats might be local farms. I found a couple in my area, some even do bulk orders, which is too bad because I have zero freezer space...
> 
> Many of us supplement with salmon oil for omega-3's, but for the most part, that's it! :smile:




LOL, my mother calls Yogi...Piglet...when he was a puppy she said he looked like a little pig running around. We've tried tough love thru this whole process and not very good at it. This dog turned his nose up at cooked chicken, lol....hmmm or maybe it was just the cook. This will be very interesting to see the outcome. I can just see him now looking at the raw piece of food and looking up at us saying with his eyes "you want me to eat this...are you nuts". I already supplement with omega's so just need the meat


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## frogdog

magicre said:


> welcome to the forum and welcome to raw....


Thank You!


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## monkeys23

Grass fed yes.

As someone from a ranching family who produces natural beef, I would not go organic. Here's why: organic means that you cannot worm your livestock. Or vaccinate your breeding stock. At. All. I am very not okay with that. Even with vaccines we still lose lambs to chylamidia via abortion or being born with nasty water bloat and other disgusting things. Brucellosis is cattle is no bueno. And coccidiosis is a constant battle even with feeding decox to the sheep in their salt. We lost close to 10 lams this spring to coccidiosis and we are a very small scale, clean operation. Granted this year was worse than usual, but do you see my point?

I do believe antibiotic/hormone free is the way to go. If we have to treat any of our calves for pneumonia or whatnot, they drop out of our program and are sold at the regular stock sale instead of being sold locally under our business name. We bale our own hay mostly or buy from other local ranchers and grow our own oats to feed the ewes and lambs in winter/spring (we lamb in february). But we aren't going to sit back and watch our animals die when we can save them and let them have a good life until they are ready to eat. Our breeding stock have awesome lives... better than most pet animals out there I have to say.

There is a LOT of misinformation out there about the meat industry. Just stay away from factory farmed stuff, go antibiotic/hormone free, and buy from local producers whenever possible. That is MUCH better than buying some fancy organic label shipped in from god knows where. :wink:


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## PennyGreyhuahua

monkeys23 said:


> That is MUCH better than buying some fancy organic label shipped in from god knows where. :wink:


Totally esp from China...u DO NOT want to know how the meat was rasied & fed...n this is from me born in China...god bless ppl who ate them...


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## frogdog

monkeys23 said:


> Grass fed yes.
> 
> As someone from a ranching family who produces natural beef, I would not go organic. Here's why: organic means that you cannot worm your livestock. Or vaccinate your breeding stock. At. All. I am very not okay with that. Even with vaccines we still lose lambs to chylamidia via abortion or being born with nasty water bloat and other disgusting things. Brucellosis is cattle is no bueno. And coccidiosis is a constant battle even with feeding decox to the sheep in their salt. We lost close to 10 lams this spring to coccidiosis and we are a very small scale, clean operation. Granted this year was worse than usual, but do you see my point?
> 
> I do believe antibiotic/hormone free is the way to go. If we have to treat any of our calves for pneumonia or whatnot, they drop out of our program and are sold at the regular stock sale instead of being sold locally under our business name. We bale our own hay mostly or buy from other local ranchers and grow our own oats to feed the ewes and lambs in winter/spring (we lamb in february). But we aren't going to sit back and watch our animals die when we can save them and let them have a good life until they are ready to eat. Our breeding stock have awesome lives... better than most pet animals out there I have to say.
> 
> There is a LOT of misinformation out there about the meat industry. Just stay away from factory farmed stuff, go antibiotic/hormone free, and buy from local producers whenever possible. That is MUCH better than buying some fancy organic label shipped in from god knows where. :wink:


Thank You, very informative and will make sure to feed natural only. I'm strictly organic myself but do not eat meat. I was making homemade food for Yogi and used natural...mainly because of cost difference. 1 organic chicken breast $12 vs 3 natural chicken breast $8


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## frogdog

PennyGreyhuahua said:


> Totally esp from China...u DO NOT want to know how the meat was rasied & fed...n this is from me born in China...god bless ppl who ate them...



I buy USA free range, grass fed, or wild only. I've seen the PETA videos concerning livestock in China....AWFUL.


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## frogdog

So, am I being foolish thinking this seems to be moderately easy for the most part...as long as my dog goes for it??? This will be raw meat with bone and eventually introduce organ meat and supplement with omega's only. It seems to be an exciting next step for a better life for my youngin)


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## jdatwood

frogdog said:


> So, am I being foolish thinking this seems to be moderately easy for the most part...as long as my dog goes for it??? This will be raw meat with bone and eventually introduce organ meat and supplement with omega's only. It seems to be an exciting next step for a better life for my youngin)


It's pretty darn easy if you go slow in the beginning and don't try to rush the process. :wink:


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## jdatwood

PennyGreyhuahua said:


> be careful of the ingrediants on the PMR because most of the time they add supplements, fruits & vegetables etc which ur dog may not digest it anyways...check out if the brand offers meats & organs only...


It's not PMR if it has any added ingredients. 

PMR = whole meat, bones & organs :wink:


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## frogdog

jdatwood said:


> It's pretty darn easy if you go slow in the beginning and don't try to rush the process. :wink:


Good to know and for a person that is impatient will remember this.


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## frogdog

jdatwood said:


> It's not PMR if it has any added ingredients.
> 
> PMR = whole meat, bones & organs :wink:


I think she mistyped and meant premade raw referring to my earlier post concerning what I'm feeding my dog now.


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## jdatwood

frogdog said:


> Good to know and for a person that is impatient will remember this.


Don't know if anyone has directed you there yet but... this is one of the best ways to get started without issue
How to Get Started | Prey Model Raw


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## frogdog

jdatwood said:


> Don't know if anyone has directed you there yet but... this is one of the best ways to get started without issue
> How to Get Started | Prey Model Raw


Thank You! I saw it on another post and saved it to my fav's. Great info...helped a lot!


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## Scarlett_O'

"We" have two Frenchies that "we" feed PMRaw!:biggrin: :thumb: (Ok, ok, they are my parents....but they are my little brother and sister so I claim them as well!:tongue1

First there is Hubbers(My "little brother", ie my Dad's dog,) he is 3, was started on raw last month and thinks it is the best thing since....well since raw meat!LOL :laugh: He, of course being a Frenchie, has always had sensitivities to food, we never even thought about raw...just changed is food every 6 months or so("high quality kibble")...but he never LOVED to eat...it was just something that he had to do!! Now he starts DROOLING when my Mum is prepping dinners!LOL He has also always had quite bad seasonal and grass/weed allergies...my Mum is now VERY rarely even giving him his allergy meds!:biggrin:










Then there is little Jazzmyn(my "little sister", ie my Mum's dog,) she will be 10 weeks old tomorrow and was started on raw as of 2 weeks ago Sunday!:biggrin: She LOOOOVES her meals, eats them with gusto(something that her breeder who had her on krapple said she didnt do...although she IS a gulper)and is a WONDERFUL little princess...ok Im going a wee bit over board...but Im a little partial to her!LOL We are hoping to be able to keep all of her allergies at bay and never have to deal with them like we have with Hub!:smile: :thumb:










Anyways...Just figured I would throw in my $.02! ;=) I know that with my 3 boys and these 2(and our combined 3 cats) we would/will NEVER leave PMRaw!!


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## frogdog

Scarlett_O' said:


> "We" have two Frenchies that "we" feed PMRaw!:biggrin: :thumb: (Ok, ok, they are my parents....but they are my little brother and sister so I claim them as well!:tongue1
> 
> First there is Hubbers(My "little brother", ie my Dad's dog,) he is 3, was started on raw last month and thinks it is the best thing since....well since raw meat!LOL :laugh: He, of course being a Frenchie, has always had sensitivities to food, we never even thought about raw...just changed is food every 6 months or so("high quality kibble")...but he never LOVED to eat...it was just something that he had to do!! Now he starts DROOLING when my Mum is prepping dinners!LOL He has also always had quite bad seasonal and grass/weed allergies...my Mum is now VERY rarely even giving him his allergy meds!:biggrin:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then there is little Jazzmyn(my "little sister", ie my Mum's dog,) she will be 10 weeks old tomorrow and was started on raw as of 2 weeks ago Sunday!:biggrin: She LOOOOVES her meals, eats them with gusto(something that her breeder who had her on krapple said she didnt do...although she IS a gulper)and is a WONDERFUL little princess...ok Im going a wee bit over board...but Im a little partial to her!LOL We are hoping to be able to keep all of her allergies at bay and never have to deal with them like we have with Hub!:smile: :thumb:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyways...Just figured I would throw in my $.02! ;=) I know that with my 3 boys and these 2(and our combined 3 cats) we would/will NEVER leave PMRaw!!



Oh, it is sooo GREAT to hear from you!!! I was so wanting to hook-up with a Frenchie owner on here or well sister to Frenchies, lol. My little booger has been the same way...never cares or gives any thought to meal time...like it's a chore. He seems to like Stella and Chewy's for now until I make the transition. Let me tell you how he loves whatever we are eating though. The crazy thing is my dog LOVES fruits...apples, bananas, blueberries, etc eats them raw like candy. So, how did your brother, Hubbers, adjust...did he go for it right away? My little sweetie is beyond picky. Thank You for the pics and posting!!!


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## PennyGreyhuahua

jdatwood said:


> It's not PMR if it has any added ingredients.
> 
> PMR = whole meat, bones & organs :wink:


sorry still learning acronyms in DFC site  i was referring to premade raw food...at least now i know what's PMR..haha


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## frogdog

PennyGreyhuahua said:


> sorry still learning acronyms in DFC site  i was referring to premade raw food...at least now i know what's PMR..haha


No prob, I knew what you meant and was referring


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## PennyGreyhuahua

frogdog said:


> No prob, I knew what you meant and was referring


thanks frogdog! keep us posted how yogi's doing & if any luck on the butchers...u're in south carolina...any local chinese meat stores? since they likely go through chicken quite fast...once u started raw u'll realize it's so much easier than kibble/homecook!!


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## Scarlett_O'

frogdog said:


> Oh, it is sooo GREAT to hear from you!!! I was so wanting to hook-up with a Frenchie owner on here or well sister to Frenchies, lol. My little booger has been the same way...never cares or gives any thought to meal time...like it's a chore. He seems to like Stella and Chewy's for now until I make the transition. Let me tell you how he loves whatever we are eating though.* The crazy thing is my dog LOVES fruits...apples, bananas, blueberries, etc eats them raw like candy. So, how did your brother, Hubbers, adjust...did he go for it right away? My little sweetie is beyond picky.* Thank You for the pics and posting!!!
> 
> View attachment 3727


All of our dogs(aside from my 2 Border Collies now) have ALWAYS wanted fruits/veggies....but heck they arent stupid...they know that that was the one thing that Abi was willing to share with them!LOL :laugh: (Yes I admit it...I use to get home from a long day of working in the hot S.Colorado sun and stupid donkeys and I would sit with a glass of chilled ice tea and share a banana with Hub!LOL)

When he(parents, sister, 2 Lhasas and Hub)came up in May he would have NOTHING to do with the lamb neck that my boys got!

However...from his first meal of chicken on he eats it like there is no tomorrow!LOL (My brother still says "poor Hub" when ever he is given his .5# of meat, thinks its too little!LOL And Hub will turn his back on him and kinda hide his food while eating...as if my brother is going to take it!LOL) As far as poop wise, its been a SLLOW transition...however right now they are both being able to eat any chicken cut as long as it has SOME bone in it...and as of tomorrow the skin is going to be left on and we shall see how they do from there!:biggrin: (Hub has been on raw since 7/9 and it was slow going...but now we have him evened out and Jazzy has taken to it like a duck to water!LOL)


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## frogdog

PennyGreyhuahua said:


> thanks frogdog! keep us posted how yogi's doing & if any luck on the butchers...u're in south carolina...any local chinese meat stores? since they likely go through chicken quite fast...once u started raw u'll realize it's so much easier than kibble/homecook!!


I have about a month or less left on the premade raw and then taking the leap
My concern with these Asian or Indian markets are where their meats are coming from.
My intention is to buy USA only and closer to local as possible.
The butcher's will be my first ever experience, lol.
You wouldn't believe how easy it would be just to hand my dog a chicken neck and say "enjoy"! I don't even cook for myself and did for 2 months for the baby


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## Scarlett_O'

frogdog said:


> I have about a month or less left on the premade raw and then taking the leap
> My concern with these Asian or Indian markets are where their meats are coming from. *LOTS of people buy from ethnic markets without a problem!:smile: Ive so far only bought from grocery stores, private farmers/ranchers, whole salers, the local raw feeding co-op, and gotten free from people from my craigslist/kijiji/freecycle adds...but I hope to be able to buy from ethnic markets at some point!:smile:*
> My intention is to buy USA only and closer to local as possible.
> The butcher's will be my first ever experience, lol. *I dont even bother to go to any of our local buchers...WAY to expensive!! I can get whole chickens for almost HALF of what they charge for necks alone!!!*
> You wouldn't believe how easy it would be just to hand my dog a chicken neck and say "enjoy"! I don't even cook for myself and did for 2 months for the baby


(I added my thoughts/suggestions in bold!:wink
You may not be able to ever do EXACTLY that...you will want to watch him VERY closely when you start off...and when you add in new proteins...as I know my Pug/x, along with both Hub and Jazzy are MAJOR gulpers(Brody didnt use to be....but since my pup BC is getting bigger he is feeling more threatened, even though they cant see each other when they eat!)...and they HAVE to have their food fed frozen, and Hubbers has to be given a larger piece and then be allowed to eat the day's worth and then have it removed!:wink: (But its all about knowing thy dog!!:thumb


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## frogdog

Scarlett_O' said:


> All of our dogs(aside from my 2 Border Collies now) have ALWAYS wanted fruits/veggies....but heck they arent stupid...they know that that was the one thing that Abi was willing to share with them!LOL :laugh: (Yes I admit it...I use to get home from a long day of working in the hot S.Colorado sun and stupid donkeys and I would sit with a glass of chilled ice tea and share a banana with Hub!LOL)
> 
> When he(parents, sister, 2 Lhasas and Hub)came up in May he would have NOTHING to do with the lamb neck that my boys got!
> 
> However...from his first meal of chicken on he eats it like there is no tomorrow!LOL (My brother still says "poor Hub" when ever he is given his .5# of meat, thinks its too little!LOL And Hub will turn his back on him and kinda hide his food while eating...as if my brother is going to take it!LOL) As far as poop wise, its been a SLLOW transition...however right now they are both being able to eat any chicken cut as long as it has SOME bone in it...and as of tomorrow the skin is going to be left on and we shall see how they do from there!:biggrin: (Hub has been on raw since 7/9 and it was slow going...but now we have him evened out and Jazzy has taken to it like a duck to water!LOL)



Ok, we may have to do it...have a poop conversation, lol. So, what was the slow process...loose stool...what am I expecting or should expect. Please tell me I want have shooting runny poopy everywhere...hahaha. I'm thinkin it's going to be a slow motion diving into with the Yogi.


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## frogdog

Scarlett_O' said:


> (I added my thoughts/suggestions in bold!:wink
> You may not be able to ever do EXACTLY that...you will want to watch him VERY closely when you start off...and when you add in new proteins...as I know my Pug/x, along with both Hub and Jazzy are MAJOR gulpers(Brody didnt use to be....but since my pup BC is getting bigger he is feeling more threatened, even though they cant see each other when they eat!)...and they HAVE to have their food fed frozen, and Hubbers has to be given a larger piece and then be allowed to eat the day's worth and then have it removed!:wink: (But its all about knowing thy dog!!:thumb


WOW! Thank Ya, Gurly! So, is it good just to buy whole chickens and break them down yourself? What is this about Craigslist...do you just do an add for local only?


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## kady05

OMG all of the Frenchie's are killing me! They on my "must have" list!


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## Scarlett_O'

frogdog said:


> Ok, we may have to do it...have a poop conversation, lol. So, what was the slow process...loose stool...what am I expecting or should expect. Please tell me I want have shooting runny poopy everywhere...hahaha. I'm thinkin it's going to be a slow motion diving into with the Yogi.


His tummy just gets upset with change!:frown: He NEVER went in the house even once....but forced my Mum to go out with him MULTIPLE times a day!LOL (But we figured out she just wasnt giving him enough bone to start out with and was, unknown to be, trying to add in other proteins when I told her to wait!:tongue

So I got her to BAAAACK way up...move to skinned chicken quarters, he only eats part of the quarter a day...then she gives the other part to Jazzy(who cant swallow as easily) or freezes it in a bowl of water to make it "bigger" so he cant just gulp it the next day....now he is able to have any cut of chicken WITH skin/fat!!:biggrin: So we will wait another couple days, make sure he is ok with that and add in a wee bit of pork!:thumb:


----------



## frogdog

kady05 said:


> OMG all of the Frenchie's are killing me! They on my "must have" list!


They are on my "must have another list", lol!!!


----------



## Scarlett_O'

frogdog said:


> WOW! Thank Ya, Gurly! So, is it good just to buy whole chickens and break them down yourself? *Yep!!:thumb: I have kitchen shears, which BTW are my raw feeding BFF, and I do what I like to call "The Chicken Hack"!LOL I take a whole chicken, cut it totally in half, then hack away from there making proper sized portions depending on what dog(s)/cat Im feeding!* What is this about Craigslist...do you just do an add for local only?


Yep!:biggrin: I have an add on Craigslist, Ill send it over to you via PM!!:wink: (You might want to have a freezer ready though!LOL Ive, just since early June, been given nearly 400lbs of free meat!!:biggrin: :thumb


----------



## frogdog

Scarlett_O' said:


> His tummy just gets upset with change!:frown: He NEVER went in the house even once....but forced my Mum to go out with him MULTIPLE times a day!LOL (But we figured out she just wasnt giving him enough bone to start out with and was, unknown to be, trying to add in other proteins when I told her to wait!:tongue
> 
> So I got her to BAAAACK way up...move to skinned chicken quarters, he only eats part of the quarter a day...then she gives the other part to Jazzy(who cant swallow as easily) or freezes it in a bowl of water to make it "bigger" so he cant just gulp it the next day....now he is able to have any cut of chicken WITH skin/fat!!:biggrin: So we will wait another couple days, make sure he is ok with that and add in a wee bit of pork!:thumb:


Your mom was going full gusto Now did ya'll start off with backs or quarters cause I've read both? Do ya'll feed once a day? Yogi has only ate once a day since puppy days. Two of his allergens are pork and venison so no go here. This poochie has an extreme reaction to pork looks like he has measles.


----------



## frogdog

Scarlett_O' said:


> Yep!:biggrin: I have an add on Craigslist, Ill send it over to you via PM!!:wink: (You might want to have a freezer ready though!LOL Ive, just since early June, been given nearly 400lbs of free meat!!:biggrin: :thumb


Whaaat, that's insane. I don't need 400lbs just got my one, lawdy...hahaha. I def need to get on there for local then. Why would people be giving away sooo much meat?


----------



## Scarlett_O'

frogdog said:


> Whaaat, that's insane. I don't need 400lbs just got my one, lawdy...hahaha. I def need to get on there for local then. Why would people be giving away sooo much meat?


HAHA...I feed 3 dogs and 2 cats!:tongue:

And the 1 lady has....6, **6**, LARGE freezers for just her self and her husband!!!! So they where going thru them the day after she saw my add on freecycle and noticed all of the "freezer burnt" meat and she bagged it up, put it in her one semi-empty freezer and gave me a call!:biggrin: 1 guy was an older guy whos wife died a while back and he didnt realze it but she had like 80lbs of meat in the freezer that he knew he was NEVER going to eat...and he LOVED that he was going to be helping out a Puggie!LOL They other 3 people are hunters and where emptying their freezers from unwanted/unneeded meats before hunting season!:wink: :thumb:

(Remember freezer "burnt" is nothing but a drying of the meat...and is TOTALLY fine to feed!:wink


----------



## frogdog

Scarlett_O' said:


> HAHA...I feed 3 dogs and 2 cats!:tongue:
> 
> And the 1 lady has....6, **6**, LARGE freezers for just her self and her husband!!!! So they where going thru them the day after she saw my add on freecycle and noticed all of the "freezer burnt" meat and she bagged it up, put it in her one semi-empty freezer and gave me a call!:biggrin: 1 guy was an older guy whos wife died a while back and he didnt realze it but she had like 80lbs of meat in the freezer that he knew he was NEVER going to eat...and he LOVED that he was going to be helping out a Puggie!LOL They other 3 people are hunters and where emptying their freezers from unwanted/unneeded meats before hunting season!:wink: :thumb:
> 
> (Remember freezer "burnt" is nothing but a drying of the meat...and is TOTALLY fine to feed!:wink



That is way AWESOME! What a great way! Did you have a good mixture of meat? I so gotta do this recycle thingy! Talk about save some money...I might shoulda done this long ago)


----------



## magicre

now i'll jump in....abi you crack me up.

i have two dogs. one is a pug, the other is a corgi mix. between the two of them, they eat slightly less than a pound of pound of food per day.

i also have two and a half freezers, and my husband and i get one drawer...

poo discussions run amok on this site and we get into some detail, don't we abi....

that's half the fun of feeding raw.....poop and teeth and health.

some of us started with backs, some drumsticks, some quarters...depends on the amount you're starting out with...which is determined by the weight of your dog, 2% of the body weight less some because in the beginning, less is better for the first little while

we watch the stools because that is the indication of how well they are adapting...too loose, add more bone, too crumbly, add more meat.

i think you'll do fine.


----------



## Scarlett_O'

frogdog said:


> That is way AWESOME! What a great way! Did you have a good mixture of meat? I so gotta do this recycle thingy! Talk about save some money...I might shoulda done this long ago)


Oh ya...HUGE mixture...the 2 older people I got chicken, turkey, beef, and pork. From the hunters elk, venison, all sorts of fowl(duck, chucker, pheasant, goose, etc) and even some fish that had been frozen since '06 that the kitties LOVED!!LOL



magicre said:


> now i'll jump in....abi you crack me up.
> 
> i have two dogs. one is a pug, the other is a corgi mix. between the two of them, they eat slightly less than a pound of pound of food per day.
> 
> i also have two and a half freezers, and my husband and i get one drawer...
> 
> poo discussions run amok on this site and we get into some detail, don't we abi....
> 
> that's half the fun of feeding raw.....poop and teeth and health.
> 
> some of us started with backs, some drumsticks, some quarters...depends on the amount you're starting out with...which is determined by the weight of your dog, 2% of the body weight less some because in the beginning, less is better for the first little while
> 
> we watch the stools because that is the indication of how well they are adapting...too loose, add more bone, too crumbly, add more meat.
> 
> i think you'll do fine.


HEHEHE....Why thank you....I think.....lol!:tongue:

(I do talk a little much!LOL)


and YES what ever Re(And Natalie, Linsey, Jon, and more) says should be printed out and bound together in a leather book with gold writing in front that says "PMR Bible"!!!:laugh::thumb: :nod:


----------



## frogdog

Scarlett_O' said:


> Oh ya...HUGE mixture...the 2 older people I got chicken, turkey, beef, and pork. From the hunters elk, venison, all sorts of fowl(duck, chucker, pheasant, goose, etc) and even some fish that had been frozen since '06 that the kitties LOVED!!LOL
> 
> 
> 
> HEHEHE....Why thank you....I think.....lol!:tongue:
> 
> (I do talk a little much!LOL)
> 
> 
> and YES what ever Re(And Natalie, Linsey, Jon, and more) says should be printed out and bound together in a leather book with gold writing in front that says "PMR Bible"!!!:laugh::thumb: :nod:



Ya'll are GREAT and make knowledge easy! I'm soo looking forward to jumpin in on the PMR.


----------



## frogdog

magicre said:


> now i'll jump in....abi you crack me up.
> 
> i have two dogs. one is a pug, the other is a corgi mix. between the two of them, they eat slightly less than a pound of pound of food per day.
> 
> i also have two and a half freezers, and my husband and i get one drawer...
> 
> poo discussions run amok on this site and we get into some detail, don't we abi....
> 
> that's half the fun of feeding raw.....poop and teeth and health.
> 
> some of us started with backs, some drumsticks, some quarters...depends on the amount you're starting out with...which is determined by the weight of your dog, 2% of the body weight less some because in the beginning, less is better for the first little while
> 
> we watch the stools because that is the indication of how well they are adapting...too loose, add more bone, too crumbly, add more meat.
> 
> i think you'll do fine.


Thank Ya and your info helps! I'll be feeding .58 and looking forward to the change. Hope Yogi will do great on it!


----------



## frogdog

I have a question and hopefully no one beats me up too bad for asking...haha. When I switch to PMR is it ok for my dog to eat some raw fruits and veggies...only because he is nuts over them. Actually, maybe when I start feeding him raw meat he will say bye bye to such morsels.


----------



## magicre

i don't have a problem shopping at my asian stores...my favourite chinese restaurant sent me to their supplier and it's like this hole in the wall but man, they have stuff...

and the other place we go is like any other supermarket and have the best fish and odd stuff, like goat and lamb and parts of animals i don't usually find....

but it took a while before we went outside the norm before feeding them the more exotic stuff....


----------



## frogdog

magicre said:


> i don't have a problem shopping at my asian stores...my favourite chinese restaurant sent me to their supplier and it's like this hole in the wall but man, they have stuff...
> 
> and the other place we go is like any other supermarket and have the best fish and odd stuff, like goat and lamb and parts of animals i don't usually find....
> 
> but it took a while before we went outside the norm before feeding them the more exotic stuff....


I think it will be a while for me also and will start slowly. My dog is allergic to pork and venison so those are out. Call me crazy but don't know if I can feed him wittle wabbits)


----------



## PennyGreyhuahua

frogdog said:


> I have about a month or less left on the premade raw and then taking the leap
> My concern with these Asian or Indian markets are where their meats are coming from.
> My intention is to buy USA only and closer to local as possible.
> The butcher's will be my first ever experience, lol.
> You wouldn't believe how easy it would be just to hand my dog a chicken neck and say "enjoy"! I don't even cook for myself and did for 2 months for the baby


oh...does ur city sells local raised chickens sold by chinese markets? for sure they dont fly the live chickens all the way to USA from china...haha

me too we DO NOT cook & DO NOT handle raw meat before...after we got Penny we got our hands dirty...just love the crunching sounds & how they keep begging & look at u "pppplssssss mommy...ppplssssss"


----------



## Scarlett_O'

frogdog said:


> I have a question and hopefully no one beats me up too bad for asking...haha. When I switch to PMR is it ok for my dog to eat some raw fruits and veggies...only because he is nuts over them. Actually, maybe when I start feeding him raw meat he will say bye bye to such morsels.


Brody still gets the OCCASIONAL raw carrot slice.
But that is only when Daddy is being naughty and wants to give him all that unneeded sugar!:wink:



frogdog said:


> I think it will be a while for me also and will start slowly. My dog is allergic to pork and venison so those are out. Call me crazy but don't know if I can feed him wittle wabbits)


Also, have you *tried* raw pork and venison? As allergy test, test for COOKED meats...which have different properties!:wink: (Brody is HIGHLY allergic to chicken, cooked chicken that is, Im talking hives, hair loss, red/itchy/hot-to-the-touch skin, but he is TOTALLY and absolutely fine with raw chicken!:thumb


----------



## Liz

Many of the dogs that are allergic to a processed or cooked meat are perfectly fine on that same meat raw so I would not write off pork or venison right away. Lots of dogs are supposedly alergic to chicken but do great on raw chicken. 

As for the fruits/veg, I definately wouldn't give any during transition as they could cause loose stools also your little guy doesn't eat much. I hate to waste my little dog's tummy space with fruit or veg as I prefer she eat good meat, organ and bone, which is more benficial to her. We have been on raw a little over a year and once in a while she will beg banana or peanuts from family members and its not a big deal but she got nothing extra at first.


----------



## DaneMama

I really appreciate that my "getting started" guide is considered part of the PMR feeding bible :thumb: 



frogdog said:


> I have a question and hopefully no one beats me up too bad for asking...haha. When I switch to PMR is it ok for my dog to eat some raw fruits and veggies...only because he is nuts over them. Actually, maybe when I start feeding him raw meat he will say bye bye to such morsels.


Nah...no sense in beating you up over a simple and logical question. Honestly, I don't recommend it. Some dogs are very sensitive to the slightest change in diet. But why take the chance? Just hold off all the extras (treats, raw fruits and veggies, etc) until the transition process is over. Once the transition is over, feel free to add them in...although most of us here don't think they are a necessary additive to the diet. But even my girls have taken to eating all the fresh fallen cherries off the trees in the yard. No one will chastise you for feeding fruits and veggies...they just aren't necessary :wink: 

Welcome to the wonderful world of raw feeding!


----------



## frogdog

PennyGreyhuahua said:


> oh...does ur city sells local raised chickens sold by chinese markets? for sure they dont fly the live chickens all the way to USA from china...haha
> 
> me too we DO NOT cook & DO NOT handle raw meat before...after we got Penny we got our hands dirty...just love the crunching sounds & how they keep begging & look at u "pppplssssss mommy...ppplssssss"


LOL! There are no Asian markets here just a few very small grocery stores that do not sell live anything. I'm not trying to be rude but the one's that are here would be scared to buy from.

I just can't wrap my head around my little Yogi eating raw meat but going to try it. This dog would live on Yogurt and ice cream if we would let him. He has never been that crazy about meat...steak, chicken, etc...his father is a meat eater. Yogi LOVES his fruits and veggies and would choose them over cooked meat. I guess, this is why I can't wrap my head around it.


----------



## frogdog

Scarlett_O' said:


> Brody still gets the OCCASIONAL raw carrot slice.
> But that is only when Daddy is being naughty and wants to give him all that unneeded sugar!:wink:
> 
> 
> 
> Also, have you *tried* raw pork and venison? As allergy test, test for COOKED meats...which have different properties!:wink: (Brody is HIGHLY allergic to chicken, cooked chicken that is, Im talking hives, hair loss, red/itchy/hot-to-the-touch skin, but he is TOTALLY and absolutely fine with raw chicken!:thumb


Interesting, no never tried raw venison or pork. He has those same reactions to pork as your's does to cooked chicken. Then, takes forever to get over even with shots. Good to know. I was saying in another post that this little nugget of mine LOVES veggies and fruits so much he picks them over cooked meat. Maybe that's a sign....uh um...for raw)


----------



## frogdog

Liz said:


> Many of the dogs that are allergic to a processed or cooked meat are perfectly fine on that same meat raw so I would not write off pork or venison right away. Lots of dogs are supposedly alergic to chicken but do great on raw chicken.
> 
> As for the fruits/veg, I definately wouldn't give any during transition as they could cause loose stools also your little guy doesn't eat much. I hate to waste my little dog's tummy space with fruit or veg as I prefer she eat good meat, organ and bone, which is more benficial to her. We have been on raw a little over a year and once in a while she will beg banana or peanuts from family members and its not a big deal but she got nothing extra at first.


This little dog loves his bananas, apples and blueberries...eats them raw...loves to take a whole apple or banana to his bed and chow down. I will def take them off the menu when we start the transition. Pork I am scared to even attempt at trying since he is HIGHLY allergic but venison is borderline for him on allergies.


----------



## frogdog

DaneMama said:


> I really appreciate that my "getting started" guide is considered part of the PMR feeding bible :thumb:
> 
> 
> 
> Nah...no sense in beating you up over a simple and logical question. Honestly, I don't recommend it. Some dogs are very sensitive to the slightest change in diet. But why take the chance? Just hold off all the extras (treats, raw fruits and veggies, etc) until the transition process is over. Once the transition is over, feel free to add them in...although most of us here don't think they are a necessary additive to the diet. But even my girls have taken to eating all the fresh fallen cherries off the trees in the yard. No one will chastise you for feeding fruits and veggies...they just aren't necessary :wink:
> 
> Welcome to the wonderful world of raw feeding!


Thank You! It will be a def change in our household. My doggie since a puppy has always preferred fruit and veggies over all else.  Let's see if that all changes, lol.


----------



## xellil

frogdog said:


> This little dog loves his bananas, apples and blueberries...eats them raw...loves to take a whole apple or banana to his bed and chow down. I will def take them off the menu when we start the transition. Pork I am scared to even attempt at trying since he is HIGHLY allergic but venison is borderline for him on allergies.


Both my dogs are watermelon-crazy. I feed it to them and it doesn't bother them, but I don't think i did it at first. I also give them a little banana now and then. My dad (who I can't control) gives them vanilla wafers. They seem to be ok with it.

all the vets said my dog was allergic to chicken - dog food with chicken in it made his ears horribly inflamed and then they would get infected. One vet told me she had never seen ears in worse shape. But he eats raw chicken alot and no problems at all. When he started eating raw rood, his ears started getting better immediately. Apparently, the dry food I was feeding him had chicken as an ingredient way down there, and I didn't notice it.


----------



## frogdog

I have one VERY important question for our household that is held SUPREME in our little nugget's eyes. :biggrin:What do you feed on PMR for treats...raw small pieces? Our doggie will think he is being punished if treats are taken out of his diet.  Now, please don't think I overload on these little morsels but everytime my dog comes in from going out to pottie a treat is expected. :angel:


----------



## frogdog

xellil said:


> Both my dogs are watermelon-crazy. I feed it to them and it doesn't bother them, but I don't think i did it at first. I also give them a little banana now and then. My dad (who I can't control) gives them vanilla wafers. They seem to be ok with it.
> 
> all the vets said my dog was allergic to chicken - dog food with chicken in it made his ears horribly inflamed and then they would get infected. One vet told me she had never seen ears in worse shape. But he eats raw chicken alot and no problems at all. When he started eating raw rood, his ears started getting better immediately. Apparently, the dry food I was feeding him had chicken as an ingredient way down there, and I didn't notice it.


I can't believe, I forgot watermelon and cantelope! This dog eats them like most dogs eat bacon, lol...of couse, I can't feed mine bacon...learned the hardway from that mistake. His allergy panel results came back with pork being one of his high allergens with venison being borderline. The good thing about PMR is most of my dog allergens are vegetables. Good to hear your dog had great results on PMR!


----------



## tem_sat

frogdog said:


> I have one VERY important question for our household that is held SUPREME in our little nugget's eyes. :biggrin:What do you feed on PMR for treats...raw small pieces? Our doggie will think he is being punished if treats are taken out of his diet.  Now, please don't think I overload on these little morsels but everytime my dog comes in from going out to pottie a treat is expected. :angel:


I have a condo Doxie. Whenever we go to out to potty and come back, I give him a tiny piece of boneless chicken, fish, or heart out of a small container I keep in the fridge. I normally just open the container, flip the lid over, grab a spoon, put his "treat" on the lid, and serve it like that! Zero clean-up (except for the spoon).

For outdoor activities, you will probably do well with dehydrated chicken pieces.


----------



## hcdoxies

frogdog said:


> I just can't wrap my head around my little Yogi eating raw meat but going to try it.


Here are my mini dachshunds eating their meals -- might help to visualize it a bit  I have been feeding for 2 years and I will never go back. It's - absolutely - amazing!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZs7wXQYJFc


----------



## Liz

I love to train so I always took whatever protein they were on and diced it then dehydrated it in my oven. So at first I took chicken brest, diced and dehydrated these for treats, then turkey, pork, beef, and lamb lung. Now lamb lung is the all time favorite along with diced/dehydrated chicken. Honestly this is really easy, makes a ton (I have 6 dogs) and much, much cheaper than commercial treats.


----------



## meggels

YAYYYYY! Another frenchie owner! As soon as I saw your username I knew it would be about a frenchie 

I feed premade raw. I just don't have the freezer space in my studio apartment for keeping fresh meats on hand  I am going to try to supplement with some RMB's once a week or so. 


I love Yogi. And Abi I love your moms new one soooooo much lol.


Here is my raw fed frog dog, Murph:


----------



## magicre

when we are making our salad, be it fruit or veggie....my pug is right there to catch what we drop...

we just don't feed it on a regular basis...as part of the diet. bubba only gets under 6 oz per day....so i'm not going to waste valuable food real estate.....if i can help it. 

as to allergies. none of my dogs did well on chicken kibble. my old lady didn't do well on cooked beef.

they both do super wonderful on raw anything. even wabbits.


----------



## frogdog

tem_sat said:


> I have a condo Doxie. Whenever we go to out to potty and come back, I give him a tiny piece of boneless chicken, fish, or heart out of a small container I keep in the fridge. I normally just open the container, flip the lid over, grab a spoon, put his "treat" on the lid, and serve it like that! Zero clean-up (except for the spoon).
> 
> For outdoor activities, you will probably do well with dehydrated chicken pieces.


Thanks, I love receiving all this info from everyone! My plan is to start dehydrating my own meats and be done with commercial $10 bags with few pieces. Also, can appreciate little clean-up I will prob have to turn to unsalted canned sardines for fish or at least for the treats. I would love to know where people are finding their best options for purchasing meat.


----------



## frogdog

hcdoxies said:


> Here are my mini dachshunds eating their meals -- might help to visualize it a bit  I have been feeding for 2 years and I will never go back. It's - absolutely - amazing!
> 
> Raw Fed (prey model raw) Mini Dachshunds - YouTube


I have to ask, "what is that Kennedy is eating"...the big slab? Well, they sure seem to enjoy it and leave no leftovers. I do not believe I've ever seen Yogi enjoy eating anything as much.


----------



## frogdog

Liz said:


> I love to train so I always took whatever protein they were on and diced it then dehydrated it in my oven. So at first I took chicken brest, diced and dehydrated these for treats, then turkey, pork, beef, and lamb lung. Now lamb lung is the all time favorite along with diced/dehydrated chicken. Honestly this is really easy, makes a ton (I have 6 dogs) and much, much cheaper than commercial treats.


This is great and been saying for a while I wanted to start dehydrating our own treats. This sure all seems a lot easier than making homemade food like I was doing! Commercial is just ridiculous for the few that come in the bag!


----------



## frogdog

meggels said:


> YAYYYYY! Another frenchie owner! As soon as I saw your username I knew it would be about a frenchie
> 
> I feed premade raw. I just don't have the freezer space in my studio apartment for keeping fresh meats on hand  I am going to try to supplement with some RMB's once a week or so.
> 
> 
> I love Yogi. And Abi I love your moms new one soooooo much lol.
> 
> 
> Here is my raw fed frog dog, Murph:



LOVE it,  I was so hoping to connect with some Frenchie owners. Cutie, Murph!!! You got me, name was totally in reference to our wonderful breed!!! eace: I am also feeding premade raw at this time but intending to make the transition in about a month. I want to be totally ready when the day comes where I just open the freezer. We, unfortunately, had a bad episode arise with allergies right when he turned 1yr. What brand are you feeding cutie Murph? We are on Stella and Chewy's.


----------



## frogdog

magicre said:


> when we are making our salad, be it fruit or veggie....my pug is right there to catch what we drop...
> 
> we just don't feed it on a regular basis...as part of the diet. bubba only gets under 6 oz per day....so i'm not going to waste valuable food real estate.....if i can help it.
> 
> as to allergies. none of my dogs did well on chicken kibble. my old lady didn't do well on cooked beef.
> 
> they both do super wonderful on raw anything. even wabbits.


That seems to be the norm...allergic to certian meat but not when given raw. Love that "food real estate".


----------



## tem_sat

frogdog said:


> I will prob have to turn to unsalted canned sardines for fish or at least for the treats. I would love to know where people are finding their best options for purchasing meat.


Ok...

I purchase grocery store brand canned sardines packed in spring water for 59 cents per can.

For meat purchases, granted my Doxie consumes about 92 pounds per year, I buy from Action Meat and about $5.00 worth of things like salmon fillets every month or so. Much of the organ meat I have will last YEARS! I also plan on picking up some venison from a deer processor in the fall. That again, combined, will last...YEARS! So, basically, you will want to figure out your freezer space and make a determination of what you can purchase in bulk. I feed mostly pork (riblets) as a base. I don't feed as much chicken. 

See what you can find possibly at this link: South Carolina Wholesale Meat | Meat Suppliers in South Carolina


----------



## meggels

Murph is on Northwest Natural's.

While I prefer to not have fruits/veggies, he was really having trouble keeping weight on with Vital Essentials, which was 99% meat, bone, organ, and 1% kelp. 

This new brand we are using is like 80% meat I believe. His weight is good. Still not chubby, think he dropped a pound from the 1 or so month inbetween that he was on kibble, but he's not too thin either. Nice balance.


----------



## frogdog

tem_sat said:


> Ok...
> 
> I purchase grocery store brand canned sardines packed in spring water for 59 cents per can.
> 
> For meat purchases, granted my Doxie consumes about 92 pounds per year, I buy from Action Meat and about $5.00 worth of things like salmon fillets every month or so. Much of the organ meat I have will last YEARS! I also plan on picking up some venison from a deer processor in the fall. That again, combined, will last...YEARS! So, basically, you will want to figure out your freezer space and make a determination of what you can purchase in bulk. I feed mostly pork (riblets) as a base. I don't feed as much chicken.
> 
> See what you can find possibly at this link: South Carolina Wholesale Meat | Meat Suppliers in South Carolina


Aww, thanks! How sweet of you to post the link. I've researched local livestock farms but not wholesalers. Well, since we only have the one Frenchie and no other pets freezer space is widely available. We don't even have anything in the freezer for ourselves. We eat all fresh. So, needless to say we are at our organic grocery mart regularly.


----------



## magicre

we go to our favourite asian market for fish...

herring, mackerel, anchovies (in season) and sardines have the lower amounts of mercury and the highest in omega threes.

we buy them frozen, not fresh...since i'd be freezing them anyway.....and they are cheaper that way.


----------



## frogdog

meggels said:


> Murph is on Northwest Natural's.
> 
> While I prefer to not have fruits/veggies, he was really having trouble keeping weight on with Vital Essentials, which was 99% meat, bone, organ, and 1% kelp.
> 
> This new brand we are using is like 80% meat I believe. His weight is good. Still not chubby, think he dropped a pound from the 1 or so month inbetween that he was on kibble, but he's not too thin either. Nice balance.


My problem finding premade for Yogi was his allergy to kelp and if they didn't have kelp they had peas. I was looking into Paw Naturaw Raw Frozen Grinds (B.A.R.F.) until PMR. I'm going to try and take the leap


----------



## frogdog

magicre said:


> we go to our favourite asian market for fish...
> 
> herring, mackerel, anchovies (in season) and sardines have the lower amounts of mercury and the highest in omega threes.
> 
> we buy them frozen, not fresh...since i'd be freezing them anyway.....and they are cheaper that way.


Too bad there are no asian markets where I live. I see your south of Seattle...how wonderful!


----------



## Scarlett_O'

frogdog said:


> I have one VERY important question for our household that is held SUPREME in our little nugget's eyes. :biggrin:What do you feed on PMR for treats...raw small pieces? Our doggie will think he is being punished if treats are taken out of his diet.  Now, please don't think I overload on these little morsels but everytime my dog comes in from going out to pottie a treat is expected. :angel:


We do frozen, for when at home, and baked(hope to soon be dehydrated if we can get a dehydrator) then frozen liver and heart(favorite so far has been Elk...but they also LOVE their beef and chicken, for the collies only, treats as well)...I DID do gizzards....but only the Collies could have them, as they started causing Brody to have bad reactions!!:frown:

(I DICE all the meat, to the size of a pinky's finger nail...then bake(or throw on a cookie sheet to freeze)...so they end up being even smaller!:wink: Once he is well adjusted you can also do "fingers" for larger treats...but you can do that also in the beginning just using the proteins that he is already getting!:smile: If you want the step by step let me know...I dont want to clog up your thread!:thumb




OH on a side note....when he was given the pork/venison and had the reaction...was this to "pre-made raw" or?? (Im just wondering because of the other ingredients that could have been in it as well!:wink


----------



## frogdog

Scarlett_O' said:


> We do frozen, for when at home, and baked(hope to soon be dehydrated if we can get a dehydrator) then frozen liver and heart(favorite so far has been Elk...but they also LOVE their beef and chicken, for the collies only, treats as well)...I DID do gizzards....but only the Collies could have them, as they started causing Brody to have bad reactions!!:frown:
> 
> (I DICE all the meat, to the size of a pinky's finger nail...then bake(or throw on a cookie sheet to freeze)...so they end up being even smaller!:wink: Once he is well adjusted you can also do "fingers" for larger treats...but you can do that also in the beginning just using the proteins that he is already getting!:smile: If you want the step by step let me know...I dont want to clog up your thread!:thumb
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OH on a side note....when he was given the pork/venison and had the reaction...was this to "pre-made raw" or?? (Im just wondering because of the other ingredients that could have been in it as well!:wink



I'll take the step by step or any info you can give. I'm somewhat ignorant when it comes to meat being one that doesn't partake myself. I mean for people consumption not so ignorant being that all men I know eat it all. I rarely buy any except for dinner parties. 

Oh, when he had the reaction it was cooked pork...TERRIBLE. I actually have never fed him venison. It's just on his panel results as a borderline allergen. So, I wonder if he ate it raw it would be ok.


----------



## frogdog

I know, I might be driving ya'll crazy with all these questions. :wacko: I'm totally inquisitive and research like a mad woman. I REALLY should get paid for it, lol.  

Yogi loves bullysticks...can't begin to express how much...on PMR is that a thing of the past and replaced with raw meaty bones? Also, are bullysticks just a no no???


----------



## magicre

when i first started raw.....there were questions about if there were only one protein you could feed which one would it be...

and across many forums, it was venison....

having fed my dogs venison now for almost two years....i have to say that if there were only one protein i could feed, i would also choose venison. 

but you try it in a tiny piece.....and see if there's a reaction....

that's what we do with all new proteins.

right now, my honey is cleavering some emu scrap. my dogs have never had it before.

before i feed it, they will get a dime sized piece and i will increase until i see no reaction...

i did the same with goat, rabbit, venison, beef, turkey, and any other proteins, exotic or not.....

during transition, my opinion is to give no bullysticks, no treats that are not raw or dehydrated raw


----------



## frogdog

magicre said:


> when i first started raw.....there were questions about if there were only one protein you could feed which one would it be...
> 
> and across many forums, it was venison....
> 
> having fed my dogs venison now for almost two years....i have to say that if there were only one protein i could feed, i would also choose venison.
> 
> but you try it in a tiny piece.....and see if there's a reaction....
> 
> that's what we do with all new proteins.
> 
> right now, my honey is cleavering some emu scrap. my dogs have never had it before.
> 
> before i feed it, they will get a dime sized piece and i will increase until i see no reaction...
> 
> i did the same with goat, rabbit, venison, beef, turkey, and any other proteins, exotic or not.....
> 
> during transition, my opinion is to give no bullysticks, no treats that are not raw or dehydrated raw


I'm hoping he will not have a reaction to venison because that is so easy to obtain here. We are over flowing with deer...they're like squirrels now...everywhere. The best thing is to feed raw meat in very small portions as treats or dehydrated, correct? Will there be a time to introduce bullysticks or will raw meat bones replace?


----------



## frogdog

It just dawned on me that Yogi already eats raw salmon, sardines and eggs with his premade raw patties. Really hoping it will be an easy transition and my boyfriend - Yogi's daddy - will have no objections. I read that you should give your dog at least one raw egg a week with shell...is this true? Also, what kind of eggs are best...chicken, quail, etc?


----------



## magicre

after my dogs were fully transitioned, i brought bullysticks and antlers back in for when they are crated....and i have to go somewhere...it keeps my pug from eating the blankets.

some people feed eggs daily.....some once in a while..

my kids won't eat the shell, so every once in a while they get an egg....mainly because i have so many proteins, i forget about eggs, not because they shouldn't have them. 

it's my co op's fault...they are constantly bombarding us with goodies LOL


----------



## frogdog

magicre said:


> after my dogs were fully transitioned, i brought bullysticks and antlers back in for when they are crated....and i have to go somewhere...it keeps my pug from eating the blankets.
> 
> some people feed eggs daily.....some once in a while..
> 
> my kids won't eat the shell, so every once in a while they get an egg....mainly because i have so many proteins, i forget about eggs, not because they shouldn't have them.
> 
> it's my co op's fault...they are constantly bombarding us with goodies LOL


I have never heard of anyone...pet or human eating egg shells...at least I don't think I have until now. I read feeding them one egg a week keeps the doctor away...like the saying "an apple a day keeps the doctor away":tongue:


----------



## hcdoxies

frogdog said:


> I have to ask, "what is that Kennedy is eating"...the big slab? Well, they sure seem to enjoy it and leave no leftovers. I do not believe I've ever seen Yogi enjoy eating anything as much.


That's venison! She was actually taking way too long to finish it, so I came back about 30 minutes later and cut it up into 3 (still big) pieces. She swallowed them whole. I think she was relieved that she could finally finish it, haha!


----------



## tem_sat

hcdoxies said:


> That's venison! She was actually taking way too long to finish it, so I came back about 30 minutes later and cut it up into 3 (still big) pieces. She swallowed them whole. I think she was relieved that she could finally finish it, haha!


Kennedy is GORGEOUS! Love Love Love Love!


----------



## frogdog

hcdoxies said:


> That's venison! She was actually taking way too long to finish it, so I came back about 30 minutes later and cut it up into 3 (still big) pieces. She swallowed them whole. I think she was relieved that she could finally finish it, haha!


Cute! I was like...wow, lol.:thumb:


----------



## magicre

i think, personally, eating raw every day is what keeps the doctors away.


----------



## frogdog

magicre said:


> i think, personally, eating raw every day is what keeps the doctors away.


Sounds fantastic to me!!! The statement was actually from a guy feeding PMR and have found other's that make references to eggs. (found it curious/ intersting as to why)


----------



## cprcheetah

magicre said:


> i think, personally, eating raw every day is what keeps the doctors away.


I know it has with Zoey, we are talking about a dog who had a respiratory/throat infection EVERY other week, was on every antibiotic under the sun constantly, was on 7 different medications, she is down to 2 (if you count her glucosamine) but she is off of steroids which is what I really wanted. She has hydrocephalus so we do have to give her the prilosec to keep the CSF fluid down. She has been seizure free since last October.


----------



## frogdog

cprcheetah said:


> I know it has with Zoey, we are talking about a dog who had a respiratory/throat infection EVERY other week, was on every antibiotic under the sun constantly, was on 7 different medications, she is down to 2 (if you count her glucosamine) but she is off of steroids which is what I really wanted. She has hydrocephalus so we do have to give her the prilosec to keep the CSF fluid down. She has been seizure free since last October.


It's GREAT that Zoey is doing much better especially on the raw. My dog is on steroids now (since May) because of his allergies and really hope switching to raw will cease the need. I am just not an advacate to prescribing medicine as an answer when there are healthy alternatives. I do not want him on allergy shots if at all possible.

It's awesome that Zoey's seizures have ceased. My mom's little Malti-Poo, Louie, has been ridden with seizures and on medication human grade. I've tried to talk to her about switching his food and could make all the difference especially after all the extensive test ran by vets. Can you believe not one vet has ever mentioned that it could possibly be just what you are feeding???!!! She has always fed him Nutro. My sister and mom think whatever a vet says is the "Bible". My sister and myself had a debate regarding food because her vet told her in Atlanta that Pedigree was a very good food and people have gotten rediculous in their concerns...whoo...GASP. Needless to say, since her vet told her...everything...I stated was wrong...go figure, lol.

Hope Zoey continues with her success of getting better )


----------



## frogdog

I have counted Yogi's food out and have max 2 wks before THE BIG DAY :thumb: of starting RAW. I have placed calls inquiring the purchase of chicken I will need - no returns yet but patiently waiting and pursuing.


----------



## Chocx2

*allergies*

My dog was tested allergies because she had lost hair and several other issues and they could find nothing else. The allergist advised that her immune system was on overdrive. But it turns out with his help, shots, and raw, she looks better than she ever has, and while on raw had recovered fast. I think, not that I'm a guru but if there immune system is strong and not compromised they can fight anything. I think a raw diet gives them an awesome immune system, like they are suppose to have.:usa:


----------



## Dude and Bucks Mamma

Definitely check your local butchers. Our butcher actually has a separate price list for raw dog food. They sell chicken backs at 40c a lb for a 40# case and beef heart at $67 for a 60# case. The hearts are a bit more than a dollar a pound, but to be able to get it in bulk is great. They have a list of other things, but these are the best deals. They can also order other things for you if you ask. Just about anything, actually. If you order Mon-Wed, you pick it up Fri. If you order Thurs-Fri, you pick it up the following Tues. It's a great system with great prices. We actually stumbled upon it while at a car dealership right across the street. We thought, "Hey, let's go in and see." Sure glad we did! If you look around, I'm sure you could find somewhere that will either have something like this or will do something like this for you upon request. Just check around 

Oh and I would like to add that, if that is indeed Yogi in your avatar pic, he is BY FAR one of the most BEAUTIFUL frenchies I have ever seen! That COLOR!!!!


----------



## frogdog

Dude and Bucks Mamma said:


> Definitely check your local butchers. Our butcher actually has a separate price list for raw dog food. They sell chicken backs at 40c a lb for a 40# case and beef heart at $67 for a 60# case. The hearts are a bit more than a dollar a pound, but to be able to get it in bulk is great. They have a list of other things, but these are the best deals. They can also order other things for you if you ask. Just about anything, actually. If you order Mon-Wed, you pick it up Fri. If you order Thurs-Fri, you pick it up the following Tues. It's a great system with great prices. We actually stumbled upon it while at a car dealership right across the street. We thought, "Hey, let's go in and see." Sure glad we did! If you look around, I'm sure you could find somewhere that will either have something like this or will do something like this for you upon request. Just check around
> 
> Oh and I would like to add that, if that is indeed Yogi in your avatar pic, he is BY FAR one of the most BEAUTIFUL frenchies I have ever seen! That COLOR!!!!


Aww thank you for the compliment! We think so too but of course we're bias, lol. Unfortunately, phone calls don't seem productive since they are not being returned...on site visits might be required as I read in another post.


----------



## BoxerPaws

frogdog said:


> My sister and myself had a debate regarding food because her vet told her in Atlanta that Pedigree was a very good food and people have gotten rediculous in their concerns.


I'm just finally getting around to reading through all this. Everyone else has covered what you need to know. We've been feeding OUR Zoey raw for a month now. The process is going painfully slow, especially since an entire week of super-runs last week. So listen to them; they know what they're talking about!

Regarding the quote, ICK!! I can't believe that vet said that. If mine told me that, I'd be out the door and finding another!! Granted, mine has a waiting room overflowing with the typical SD products I never would have touched to begin with, so I have no idea how they feel about raw. But if some vet told me people are "ridiculous" in their concerns, the last thing they'd see of me would be my back!! All it takes is a modicum of intelligence in reading ingredient labels. Please, Dr Vet, explain to me how I'm ridiculous if I don't like the following:
1) Of the first 5 ingredients in Pedigree, THREE are plant-based! And two of those are corn products! 
2) "Meat & Bone Meal" and "Animal Fat" are the other 2 top-5 ingredients. Uh...WHAT KIND of meat?! Which animal fat?? I'm highly suspect if I don't even know what kinds of animal are in there!
3) Ingredient 6 is "Chicken By-Product Meal". By-product...enough said...let me just give my beloved pet the leftover CRAP from processing chickens for human consumption.

My argument needs to go no further. Thank you, Mr Vet, goodbye. (Please feel free to run these by your sis and mom...and the fact that vets get startlingly little nutritional training.)

LOL! 

I really hope Yogi ends up LOVING his PMR when you start to give it! Zoey went straight for it without the least hesitation. She knows what she likes! She never dove into her kibble meals the way she goes nuts for her raw meals.


----------



## frogdog

BoxerPaws said:


> I'm just finally getting around to reading through all this. Everyone else has covered what you need to know. We've been feeding OUR Zoey raw for a month now. The process is going painfully slow, especially since an entire week of super-runs last week. So listen to them; they know what they're talking about!
> 
> Regarding the quote, ICK!! I can't believe that vet said that. If mine told me that, I'd be out the door and finding another!! Granted, mine has a waiting room overflowing with the typical SD products I never would have touched to begin with, so I have no idea how they feel about raw. But if some vet told me people are "ridiculous" in their concerns, the last thing they'd see of me would be my back!! All it takes is a modicum of intelligence in reading ingredient labels. Please, Dr Vet, explain to me how I'm ridiculous if I don't like the following:
> 1) Of the first 5 ingredients in Pedigree, THREE are plant-based! And two of those are corn products!
> 2) "Meat & Bone Meal" and "Animal Fat" are the other 2 top-5 ingredients. Uh...WHAT KIND of meat?! Which animal fat?? I'm highly suspect if I don't even know what kinds of animal are in there!
> 3) Ingredient 6 is "Chicken By-Product Meal". By-product...enough said...let me just give my beloved pet the leftover CRAP from processing chickens for human consumption.
> 
> My argument needs to go no further. Thank you, Mr Vet, goodbye. (Please feel free to run these by your sis and mom...and the fact that vets get startlingly little nutritional training.)
> 
> LOL!
> 
> I really hope Yogi ends up LOVING his PMR when you start to give it! Zoey went straight for it without the least hesitation. She knows what she likes! She never dove into her kibble meals the way she goes nuts for her raw meals.


I have certainly informed my sister, but she is the kind, no matter, how intelligent she is will abide by what her vet says...like they hold the "Holy Grail". I know the place she goes to it's like the "Taj Mahal" of all vets, and I think to myself you are so paying for this place, lol. I have known about Pedigree since I was 19 and we're talking...big gasp...20 yrs. It is basically garbage in a bag. I feel for her little dog Charlie but cannot get thru to her and this is a girl that has a high level corporate job making more money than most doctors. I am with you on walking right out of his office and never looking back!!! My vet knows I feed Yogi premade raw as of now and is all for it. He's unaware about me starting PMR.

Yogi has been the most picky little eater...turns his nose up to almost all kibble. He was fed Orijen by his breeder and was sent home with a bag. I started making homemade food and what a joke...he would eat one day and turn his nose up the next. He had us scrounging for new recipes nonstop. I turned to premade raw just recently, eventhough, I fed it to my previous dog. So, I'm hoping PMR is an answer.


----------



## magicre

every time i hear about picky dogs....as soon as they are switched to raw, suddenly they aren't so picky anymore


----------



## BoxerPaws

magicre said:


> every time i hear about picky dogs....as soon as they are switched to raw, suddenly they aren't so picky anymore


Yup. Zoey was not terribly excited for mealtimes for the month we had her eating kibble (she came home with Canidae, and we switched her to Chicken Soup). The very first raw meal she got, a chicken back, was off the plate and being crunched within SECONDS of being put down! Hahahaha! She's a smart girl, and she apparently knows what's good for her.

Hopefully Yogi does, too, and he's just holding out for the good stuff!

Edit: Here's the link to video of her first raw meal:
http://dogfoodchat.com/forum/raw-feeding/9536-first-raw-meal-success.html


----------



## frogdog

magicre said:


> every time i hear about picky dogs....as soon as they are switched to raw, suddenly they aren't so picky anymore


I am so hoping but can already tell he gravitates to meats especially fed raw..sardines, salmon and tried a little beef the other day. I'm sure there is not a dog that would turn their nose up at any that I listed though. The funny thing is he turns up his nose and will not eat sardines and salmon out of the cans from Wal-Mart. This maybe because we've always fed him one's that came from the organic grocery store we shop. I was wondering why he was not eating them so I did a taste test and couldn't believe the difference. We have a dog with champagne taste, lol and needs to be on maybe a really good beer budget :becky:


----------



## PennyGreyhuahua

magicre said:


> every time i hear about picky dogs....as soon as they are switched to raw, suddenly they aren't so picky anymore


Can not describe any better than that! After switch to raw, they're like ''just give me any meat...any meat mommy"


----------



## frogdog

BoxerPaws said:


> Yup. Zoey was not terribly excited for mealtimes for the month we had her eating kibble (she came home with Canidae, and we switched her to Chicken Soup). The very first raw meal she got, a chicken back, was off the plate and being crunched within SECONDS of being put down! Hahahaha! She's a smart girl, and she apparently knows what's good for her.
> 
> Hopefully Yogi does, too, and he's just holding out for the good stuff!
> 
> Edit: Here's the link to video of her first raw meal:
> http://dogfoodchat.com/forum/raw-feeding/9536-first-raw-meal-success.html


I have a feeling you are exactly right. I was fixing dinner the other night for my boyfriend who is a meat eater and gave Yogi some raw as a little test....enough said. :thumb:

Love the video, thanks! Zoey is a beauty and looks like she thoroughly enjoyed her first meal. I think the cat wanted to get in on the good stuff too) Looks like a big half chicken back.


----------



## frogdog

PennyGreyhuahua said:


> Can not describe any better than that! After switch to raw, they're like ''just give me any meat...any meat mommy"


I am def starting to believe Yogi is more of a meat eater for sure just in the small taste test we've done. He so enjoyed it!


----------



## PennyGreyhuahua

frogdog said:


> I am def starting to believe Yogi is more of a meat eater for sure just in the small taste test we've done. He so enjoyed it!


hehe..sooner or later yogi will give you his puppy eyes wants more meat!


----------



## schtuffy

I can't exactly say my dog was a picky eater before we went to raw  But like I said in one of my other posts, there was a progression of some sorts... on Iams and Innova he would sprinkle the kibbles onto the floor and eat one by one and not finish what was in his bowl, on grain-free Orijen he began to scarf, and on raw he will:

1) sit or lie politely in front of the fridge if he thinks I'm even _thinking_ about feeding him (I try to vary meal times, but at +/- 1 to 2 hours is when this behavior begins)
2) jump and twirl and dance and launch himself in the air while doing pirouettes (obviously not tolerated, but no amount of ignoring can seem to curb him from doing this 100% yet, but feeding usually involves a 'sit' command followed by 'wait' as I tauntingly dangle the meat in front of him to test his willpower)
3) twitch...he will twitch and try to sneak the meat from my hands...as his mind is telling his body to obey my commands, I can see how hard he's struggling by using all of his willpower not to let his body win over his mind and lunge at me to gobble down that chunk of beef chuck...it's really adorable...

...the things they do for their delicious meat :biggrin:


----------



## BoxerPaws

schtuffy said:


> I can't exactly say my dog was a picky eater before we went to raw  But like I said in one of my other posts, there was a progression of some sorts... on Iams and Innova he would sprinkle the kibbles onto the floor and eat one by one and not finish what was in his bowl, on grain-free Orijen he began to scarf, and on raw he will:
> 
> 1) sit or lie politely in front of the fridge if he thinks I'm even _thinking_ about feeding him (I try to vary meal times, but at +/- 1 to 2 hours is when this behavior begins)
> 2) *jump and twirl and dance and launch himself in the air while doing pirouettes *(obviously not tolerated, but no amount of ignoring can seem to curb him from doing this 100% yet, but feeding usually involves a 'sit' command followed by 'wait' as I tauntingly dangle the meat in front of him to test his willpower)
> 3) twitch...he will twitch and try to sneak the meat from my hands...as his mind is telling his body to obey my commands, I can see how hard he's struggling by using all of his willpower not to let his body win over his mind and lunge at me to gobble down that chunk of beef chuck...it's really adorable...
> 
> ...the things they do for their delicious meat :biggrin:


That sounds like Zoey! She bounces and twirls in circles as we make our way from the kitchen and out into the backyard. Haha. All the while keeping her eyes firmly glued on whatever metal dish/plastic container she knows has her meal in it! 

My hubs and I have taught her, pretty darn successfully so far, so sit and wait for her food. She'll sit very willingly, and then stare at us, and then the food, and then at us, and then the food, just itching for us to tell her it's "okay" to go eat! It's so sweet and hilarious. I like to make her sit while I talk to her about how STARVING I know she must be and how much she wants that yummy chicken! I know...I'm such a mean mommy.


----------



## frogdog

My experience today...an interesting conversation with the meat department at Earthfare and needless to say do not tell them the meat is for your dog...my hiccup during this learning process. I got an earful and then some. I was bombarded with all the dangers concerning raw meat and bones with a finale about I better be expecting an enormous vet bill.

Also, backs would be a special order and may not be able to fill along with taking over 2 wks.


----------



## frogdog

schtuffy said:


> I can't exactly say my dog was a picky eater before we went to raw  But like I said in one of my other posts, there was a progression of some sorts... on Iams and Innova he would sprinkle the kibbles onto the floor and eat one by one and not finish what was in his bowl, on grain-free Orijen he began to scarf, and on raw he will:
> 
> 1) sit or lie politely in front of the fridge if he thinks I'm even _thinking_ about feeding him (I try to vary meal times, but at +/- 1 to 2 hours is when this behavior begins)
> 2) jump and twirl and dance and launch himself in the air while doing pirouettes (obviously not tolerated, but no amount of ignoring can seem to curb him from doing this 100% yet, but feeding usually involves a 'sit' command followed by 'wait' as I tauntingly dangle the meat in front of him to test his willpower)
> 3) twitch...he will twitch and try to sneak the meat from my hands...as his mind is telling his body to obey my commands, I can see how hard he's struggling by using all of his willpower not to let his body win over his mind and lunge at me to gobble down that chunk of beef chuck...it's really adorable...
> 
> ...the things they do for their delicious meat :biggrin:


Thanks for the giggle and smile...too cute!


----------



## frogdog

I may should put this on a new thread...

I spoke to my vet - he is really awesome and supports me having Yogi on premade raw - he does have concerns about starting PMR.

1) bacteria infection - stated it could happen but not high probability but there is the possibility

2) worms - especially pork - pretty much the same statement as above 

3) bones - are drastically better if raw but still a possibilty of constipation result of bone chips

He informed me that freezing first would drastically cut down on some of these concerns.

He did state he has had a number of clients inquire about raw and had a few that had to bring their dogs in because distruction caused by bone fragments. He did not advise against or for just gave me probabilities. So, I have to be honest and say I am a little concerned now. Also, does anyone have a vet that totally supports PMR. I am finding vets that support B.A.R.F. 

Any info would be great...good or bad.


----------



## RawFedDogs

One big problem is that you seem to be looking for reasons not to feed PMR. There is no good logical reason not to. As a raw feeder of over 9 years to multiple dogs and cats, I know what it's about and I know the ins and outs. Don't listen to a vet or anyone who has never fed their carnivores a PMR diet for at least 1 year. Otherwise they have no idea what they are talking about. All they have in internet hysteria and hysteria amongst collegues.



frogdog said:


> I may should put this on a new thread...
> 
> I spoke to my vet - he is really awesome and supports me having Yogi on premade raw - he does have concerns about starting PMR.
> 
> 1) bacteria infection - stated it could happen but not high probability but there is the possibility


There is no bacteria threat to dogs. I have, on several occasions fed my dogs meat that was so rotten I couldn't stand to feed it in the house. I did one time and had to spray the kitchen with a ful can of Lysol, open the windows and turn on the fan to get the odor out and it took hours at that. My dogs had no ill effect. Not one vomit. Not one diarrhea. Nothing. Dogs are built to handle bacteria. I am not afraid of any bacteria that enters the dog's body through their mouth.



> 2) worms - especially pork - pretty much the same statement as above


Worms, not a problem. In 9 years of raw feeding PMR, not one dog has had not one worm the whole time. Not one dog. Not one worm. Ever. Anytime.



> 3) bones - are drastically better if raw but still a possibilty of constipation result of bone chips


If you feed a dog too much bone they will get constipated. Thats a fact. Constipation is not a fatal disease. It doesn't require hospitalization. It does not require a vet visit. It doesn't require anything except feed less bone. ALL dogs regardless of what they are fed get constipated from time to time. It's really no big deal.



> He informed me that freezing first would drastically cut down on some of these concerns.


He's right. I'm not concerned about it but it will keep down the teeeny tiney chance of getting a parasite. Remember most parasites are in the GI tract and generally we don't feed that.



> He did state he has had a number of clients inquire about raw and had a few that had to bring their dogs in because distruction caused by bone fragments.


Either he's lying or he has lots of cliets that don't know how to raw feed. Yes, there will be some bone fragments in stools, particularly in the beginning. They are harmless and cause no problems. All of us have seen bone fragments in poop. The longer you feed raw, the less you see it. Seeing a bone fragment in a stool is no reason to rush the dog to the vet.



> So, I have to be honest and say I am a little concerned now.


You will see a lot that will concern you. Always its from someone who never fed it.



> Also, does anyone have a vet that totally supports PMR. I am finding vets that support B.A.R.F.


Yes, I know vets that support PMR. The vets that support BARF have swallowed too much of the garbage fed to them by the dog food salesmen. There are no nutrients in fruits & veggies that are not in meat, bones, and organs. Thats a provable fact.

Now sit back and enjoy watching your dog scarf now RMBs and watch their appearance and health greatly improve. :smile:


----------



## Herzo

I'm not trying to highjack this thread but I don't get it why would they support BARF and not PMR. Because ,I a long time ago was feeding my dogs BARF and I would feed chicken wings in the morning and would mix veggies in the ground meat in the evening or feed them chunks of meat. That's what I knew of the BARF so other than cutting out the veggies what is the dif? You are still to feed meat with bone, at least that was what my books said. So I don't get why they would be against PMR or is there BARF different than mine?


----------



## frogdog

Herzo said:


> I'm not trying to highjack this thread but I don't get it why would they support BARF and not PMR. Because ,I a long time ago was feeding my dogs BARF and I would feed chicken wings in the morning and would mix veggies in the ground meat in the evening or feed them chunks of meat. That's what I knew of the BARF so other than cutting out the veggies what is the dif? You are still to feed meat with bone, at least that was what my books said. So I don't get why they would be against PMR or is there BARF different than mine?


My vet didn't support or not support PMR just informed me of some concerns. He was supportive if I chose to do so but wanted me to know the risk even if small.


PAW NATURAW Raw Frozen Grinds (B.A.R.F.) for Pets

INGREDIENTS: Organic chicken and ground organic chicken bone, organic chicken heart, organic chicken liver, and organic chicken gizzard.

GUARANTEED ANALYSIS: Crude protein 16% min; crude fat 9% min; crude fiber 1% max; moisture 70% max.

TRANSPARENCY: Organic chicken and ground organic chicken bone (92%) and organic chicken organs (8%).

Other Flavors: Turkey, Beef, Bison


----------



## frogdog

RawFedDogs said:


> One big problem is that you seem to be looking for reasons not to feed PMR. There is no good logical reason not to. As a raw feeder of over 9 years to multiple dogs and cats, I know what it's about and I know the ins and outs. Don't listen to a vet or anyone who has never fed their carnivores a PMR diet for at least 1 year. Otherwise they have no idea what they are talking about. All they have in internet hysteria and hysteria amongst collegues.
> 
> 
> 
> There is no bacteria threat to dogs. I have, on several occasions fed my dogs meat that was so rotten I couldn't stand to feed it in the house. I did one time and had to spray the kitchen with a ful can of Lysol, open the windows and turn on the fan to get the odor out and it took hours at that. My dogs had no ill effect. Not one vomit. Not one diarrhea. Nothing. Dogs are built to handle bacteria. I am not afraid of any bacteria that enters the dog's body through their mouth.
> 
> 
> 
> Worms, not a problem. In 9 years of raw feeding PMR, not one dog has had not one worm the whole time. Not one dog. Not one worm. Ever. Anytime.
> 
> 
> 
> If you feed a dog too much bone they will get constipated. Thats a fact. Constipation is not a fatal disease. It doesn't require hospitalization. It does not require a vet visit. It doesn't require anything except feed less bone. ALL dogs regardless of what they are fed get constipated from time to time. It's really no big deal.
> 
> 
> 
> He's right. I'm not concerned about it but it will keep down the teeeny tiney chance of getting a parasite. Remember most parasites are in the GI tract and generally we don't feed that.
> 
> 
> 
> Either he's lying or he has lots of cliets that don't know how to raw feed. Yes, there will be some bone fragments in stools, particularly in the beginning. They are harmless and cause no problems. All of us have seen bone fragments in poop. The longer you feed raw, the less you see it. Seeing a bone fragment in a stool is no reason to rush the dog to the vet.
> 
> 
> 
> You will see a lot that will concern you. Always its from someone who never fed it.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I know vets that support PMR. The vets that support BARF have swallowed too much of the garbage fed to them by the dog food salesmen. There are no nutrients in fruits & veggies that are not in meat, bones, and organs. Thats a provable fact.
> 
> Now sit back and enjoy watching your dog scarf now RMBs and watch their appearance and health greatly improve. :smile:



I'm not looking for reasons not to feed PMR but want to have as much knowledge as possible. I think anyone going into or starting something new blindly or without asking questions is being irresponsible. I think knowing the pros and cons along with any risk that might be probable is being smart. I don't need my vets approval but would like to know his medical opinion good or not. He told me about some clients that are feeding raw and one that came in with a medical situation with their dog from eating a leg of a deer. So, it may have been someone that did not not prepare or feed accordingly. I appreciate all your knowlege and information. What I know about B.A.R.F or what I would consider does not have veggies and fruits.


----------



## Liz

Feeding pre made food defeats many purposes of raw. They don't get dental benefits, I do not know they exact ratio of bone to meat, I am not guaranteed what is in their food, I am at themercy of this company to feed my dog what they feel is right, my dog does not enjoy the crunching, ripping and tearing at his meal. I a m sure there are more but another onw would be the expense is big compared to Prey Model Raw - I am in control and my dogs look great, I won't give that control back to a food manufacturer who does not know my dog.


----------



## Liz

Thankfully my giys are not at all fond of tripe and I am leaving it that way. Try not to worry too much about evry risk brought up. I have weaned two litters onto raw and fed shelties and collies. They have done fantastic and the only problem I ever have is loose stools due to my own error in giving too much organ or meat only too many times. Your dog will do great, knowledge is powerful but sometimes when you are just starting out too much knowledge can scare you because you don't have your own experiences to temper opinion. Keep on and enjoy the benefits to your pup.


----------



## frogdog

Liz said:


> Thankfully my giys are not at all fond of tripe and I am leaving it that way. Try not to worry too much about evry risk brought up. I have weaned two litters onto raw and fed shelties and collies. They have done fantastic and the only problem I ever have is loose stools due to my own error in giving too much organ or meat only too many times. Your dog will do great, knowledge is powerful but sometimes when you are just starting out too much knowledge can scare you because you don't have your own experiences to temper opinion. Keep on and enjoy the benefits to your pup.


My head is spinning today with all the info from the butcher, the vet, etc.
Dumb me, with info overload, I was was thinking tripe was considered dehydrated PMR but see now...not.
Funny thing Yogi was all over it for about 2/3 minutes and now want even walk near it. So, I gave him a bully stick. He's back in heaven, lol.


----------



## tem_sat

frogdog said:


> I may should put this on a new thread...
> 
> I spoke to my vet - he is really awesome and supports me having Yogi on premade raw - he does have concerns about starting PMR.
> 
> 1) bacteria infection - stated it could happen but not high probability but there is the possibility
> 
> 2) worms - especially pork - pretty much the same statement as above
> 
> 3) bones - are drastically better if raw but possibility of constipation result of bone chips
> 
> He informed me that freezing first would drastically cut down on some of these concerns.
> 
> He did state he has had a number of clients inquire about raw and had a few that had to bring their dogs in because distruction caused by bone fragments. He did not advise against or for just gave me probabilities. So, I have to be honest and say I am a little concerned now. Also, does anyone have a vet that totally supports PMR. I am finding vets that support B.A.R.F.
> 
> Any info would be great...good or bad.


1. Read this post http://dogfoodchat.com/forum/raw-feeding/9859-enlighten-me-salmonella-does-not-worry-me.html#post109590

2. Non issue. I feed pork riblets as a base instead of chicken. I have never had one reason to worry or even one instance of vomit, diarreah, or any sort of illness.

3. I have yet to ever find a bone chip or shard in my Doxie's stool. Bear in mind, I pick it up daily and accompany him every time he goes, so anything that would be unusual, I would have caught. Lastly, he is able to eat turkey wings. Turkey seems to have a higher tendency to cause a shard, however, I have never seen any sort of issue. If you feel uncomfortable about feeding bone-in turkey, feed boneless! It's not a problem. 

I hope that helps!

-- Tara


----------



## cprcheetah

frogdog said:


> I may should put this on a new thread...
> 
> I spoke to my vet - he is really awesome and supports me having Yogi on premade raw - he does have concerns about starting PMR.
> 
> 1) bacteria infection - stated it could happen but not high probability but there is the possibility
> 
> 2) worms - especially pork - pretty much the same statement as above
> 
> 3) bones - are drastically better if raw but still a possibilty of constipation result of bone chips
> 
> He informed me that freezing first would drastically cut down on some of these concerns.
> 
> He did state he has had a number of clients inquire about raw and had a few that had to bring their dogs in because distruction caused by bone fragments. He did not advise against or for just gave me probabilities. So, I have to be honest and say I am a little concerned now. Also, does anyone have a vet that totally supports PMR. I am finding vets that support B.A.R.F.
> 
> Any info would be great...good or bad.


My father is a Veterinarian, and he is in full support of me feeding raw, since seeing the health benefits (Zoey is off of all of her meds but 1) in my 3 dogs, and seeing how well they are doing, he actually talks to his clients about feeding raw. 

Here is a link that talks about the parasites: Myths About Raw: Will my dog aquire parasites from raw meat? It just isn't an issue, my dogs have eaten raw for 1 year now, and have had 2 clean (no worms) fecals done, they eat quite a bit of pork. Your vet is not educated enough about raw to give you the correct information about feeding raw. The only problem my dad has seen with raw in 40 years of being a vet was a guy who didn't feed balanced and he actually lost some dogs due to malnutrition...literally the ONLY thing he fed was chicken backs for like 10+ years on some of the dogs he had lost (but that was his own dumb fault for not feeding a properly balanced diet). No bacterial infections, (although I have heard it can happen ---slim chance) but guess what? There have been several recalls lately on kibble/dry food for salmonella so I don't worry about it, I have 1 dog with a severely compromised immune system, she has not had ANY problems with raw diet whatsoever.


----------



## magicre

i think the notion of feeding raw for someone like me who has a medical background and had MRSA so now has a little germaphobia  and is a control freak.....is very confusing.....

i grew up feeding kibble to my dogs. never gave it a second thought. i'm a scientist and should be ashamed of all those years that i fed kibble....especially after i started getting sick five years ago and began to really study human nutrition and immune systems and how to give strength to the body through food....

and, still i fed kibble....and then four of my dogs started to die sooner than expected and i read the ingredients on their food and it was like a d'oh moment. 

i had been reading ingredients for years....and if i had never heard of it or couldn't pronounce it, i didn't eat it. i eat food as close to nature as possible and certainly my food doesn't look like little coloured or brown triangles.

when my heart dog died, his liver enzymes were very high and we could never figure out why. i now know it was an ingredient in the food he ate....my opinion only...no science to back it...but it makes sense to me.

that's when i started to home cook because at least i would have control over what they ate.

then i started reading.....i read every post on every forum....i read articles.....orijen has a great white paper from 1998 that you should read. just do a search on orijen white paper....it's a long read but knowledge is power.

i always knew salmonella was everywhere.....and i knew kibble carried salmonella and i knew that i handled raw meat for honey and i.....even still, i had an illogical fear that handling raw food for the dogs would make me sick. hardly true, it's the same stuff.

i did feel, however, that pre mades would have more area for germs than what i bought at the store...so i never went that route.

the more i read, the more of an imperative it became to feed raw. we had a rocky start....oh my, user error all over the place....even then..i knew i had to make this work....

after all, i stupidly waited until one of my dogs was ten and it was if i didn't have time to wait any longer....and, yes, i expect my dog to live a hundred eighty years old on raw....not...but you get the idea.

even if it doesn't exten her life, the quality is what counts.

two years later, my dogs are the picture of health. my vets are against raw; but they speak with fork-ed tongues because first they tell me i'm killing them, and then they gather to look and feel their coats, they examine their teeth and my pug's ears...

please read. you sound like an intelligent person......you are curious and you want what's best for your dog....make your mind up for you and your dog....

don't take our word for it. seriously.....

as i was reading, i read that you don't see BARF as what we see BARF as....i don't understand.
barf is a feeding style that dr. billinghurst came up with and included all kinds of supplements, veggies, fruits and i think there might have been some meat in there.

prey model is a type of feeding where only meat bone organ are fed....but we try to cycle as many parts of the animal and use the parts of as many animals as possible to mimic feeding a whole animal.

whole prey is feeding the entire animal...if i had land and several animals that were large, i would feed that way and never get anything done because i'd be fascinated.

i guess since we are looking from the other side of the looking glass....we know what raw does.....we see it every day and as time goes by, my dogs get healthier and healthier...it's a progressive thing....

for you, though, you're outside looking in at all these people saying the same thing, but it's not part of your experience which makes your skepticism and curiousity and caution more understandable.

on the other hand, sometimes a leap of faith is required as it is with this....


----------



## frogdog

tem_sat said:


> 1. Read this post http://dogfoodchat.com/forum/raw-feeding/9859-enlighten-me-salmonella-does-not-worry-me.html#post109590
> 
> 2. Non issue. I feed pork riblets as a base instead of chicken. I have never had one reason to worry or even one instance of vomit, diarreah, or any sort of illness.
> 
> 3. I have yet to ever find a bone chip or shard in my Doxie's stool. Bear in mind, I pick it up daily and accompany him every time he goes, so anything that would be unusual, I would have caught. Lastly, he is able to eat turkey wings. Turkey seems to have a higher tendency to cause a shard, however, I have never seen any sort of issue. If you feel uncomfortable about feeding bone-in turkey, feed boneless! It's not a problem.
> 
> I hope that helps!
> 
> -- Tara


Thank You for your post and link concerning salmonella. My concerns were an act of caution out of love for my pet which I believe everyone can understand on DFC. Yesterday was an information overload day along with the butcher looking like my head had turned into Medusa, and he wanted to jump over the counter and shake (what he thought) some sense into me, lol.


----------



## Herzo

Yes re that's what I was thinking, are some people thinking BARF is premade. I have Billinghersts book and he did have meat with bone in it. It has been a very long time since I read it and don't know where it is now. All I can remember is that he was saying chicken wings were a perfect meat to bone ratio. Also necks.

I don't care if you want to feed PMR or BARF I would want to make my own most of the time, not sayen I wouldn't have the premade in the freezer just in case of an emergency.

frogdog what does your vet say about the difference in the bacteria infection in premade raw or PMR. How could that be any different if they have both been frozen other than you buy it from the grocery store or the dog food company gets it from where ever. I wonder if they are just getting a little use to the BARF because it has been talked about more than PMR. Maybe when PMR is talked about more they will get a little use to it, we can only hope.


----------



## frogdog

cprcheetah said:


> My father is a Veterinarian, and he is in full support of me feeding raw, since seeing the health benefits (Zoey is off of all of her meds but 1) in my 3 dogs, and seeing how well they are doing, he actually talks to his clients about feeding raw.
> 
> Here is a link that talks about the parasites: Myths About Raw: Will my dog aquire parasites from raw meat? It just isn't an issue, my dogs have eaten raw for 1 year now, and have had 2 clean (no worms) fecals done, they eat quite a bit of pork. Your vet is not educated enough about raw to give you the correct information about feeding raw. The only problem my dad has seen with raw in 40 years of being a vet was a guy who didn't feed balanced and he actually lost some dogs due to malnutrition...literally the ONLY thing he fed was chicken backs for like 10+ years on some of the dogs he had lost (but that was his own dumb fault for not feeding a properly balanced diet). No bacterial infections, (although I have heard it can happen ---slim chance) but guess what? There have been several recalls lately on kibble/dry food for salmonella so I don't worry about it, I have 1 dog with a severely compromised immune system, she has not had ANY problems with raw diet whatsoever.



Thank you for the link.

My vet would be the first to tell you he is not educated enough or have the knowledge to speak against or for PMR. I contacted him regarding the route I was considering and not once did he make a negative remark. The concerns he addressed were only answers to the questions I asked. During the whole episode of Yogi's allergies not once did he push Science Diet which goes far with me. Unfortunately, he lost his father during part of the time of Yogi's outbreak and had to see the other vet working in his practice. My boyfriend had to take Yogi in and what was the first thing she pushed and pushed on him SD, arrr. She even went so far as leaving me a message stating this is what we needed to do....that was the end of her seeing Yogi. 

I, myself, would be more concerned with feeding kibble. I totally agree with everyone in regards of not knowing what is actually going into the food or the grade of ingredients when buying commercial including premade I feed. I can tell you, I resorted to cooking homemade food for Yogi and eventhough there was some improvement with his allergies they were still prevalent. I feel now it was cooking the meat that may have been the issue. His allergies have mostly subsided since feeding Stell & Chewy's and can only imagine a total improvement on complete raw. As with any responsible parent there are reservations regarding anything new and comes with questions. This is the process of learning and gaining knowledge...not just to read.


----------



## frogdog

magicre said:


> i think the notion of feeding raw for someone like me who has a medical background and had MRSA so now has a little germaphobia  and is a control freak.....is very confusing.....
> 
> i grew up feeding kibble to my dogs. never gave it a second thought. i'm a scientist and should be ashamed of all those years that i fed kibble....especially after i started getting sick five years ago and began to really study human nutrition and immune systems and how to give strength to the body through food....
> 
> and, still i fed kibble....and then four of my dogs started to die sooner than expected and i read the ingredients on their food and it was like a d'oh moment.
> 
> i had been reading ingredients for years....and if i had never heard of it or couldn't pronounce it, i didn't eat it. i eat food as close to nature as possible and certainly my food doesn't look like little coloured or brown triangles.
> 
> when my heart dog died, his liver enzymes were very high and we could never figure out why. i now know it was an ingredient in the food he ate....my opinion only...no science to back it...but it makes sense to me.
> 
> that's when i started to home cook because at least i would have control over what they ate.
> 
> then i started reading.....i read every post on every forum....i read articles.....orijen has a great white paper from 1998 that you should read. just do a search on orijen white paper....it's a long read but knowledge is power.
> 
> i always knew salmonella was everywhere.....and i knew kibble carried salmonella and i knew that i handled raw meat for honey and i.....even still, i had an illogical fear that handling raw food for the dogs would make me sick. hardly true, it's the same stuff.
> 
> i did feel, however, that pre mades would have more area for germs than what i bought at the store...so i never went that route.
> 
> the more i read, the more of an imperative it became to feed raw. we had a rocky start....oh my, user error all over the place....even then..i knew i had to make this work....
> 
> after all, i stupidly waited until one of my dogs was ten and it was if i didn't have time to wait any longer....and, yes, i expect my dog to live a hundred eighty years old on raw....not...but you get the idea.
> 
> even if it doesn't exten her life, the quality is what counts.
> 
> two years later, my dogs are the picture of health. my vets are against raw; but they speak with fork-ed tongues because first they tell me i'm killing them, and then they gather to look and feel their coats, they examine their teeth and my pug's ears...
> 
> please read. you sound like an intelligent person......you are curious and you want what's best for your dog....make your mind up for you and your dog....
> 
> don't take our word for it. seriously.....
> 
> as i was reading, i read that you don't see BARF as what we see BARF as....i don't understand.
> barf is a feeding style that dr. billinghurst came up with and included all kinds of supplements, veggies, fruits and i think there might have been some meat in there.
> 
> prey model is a type of feeding where only meat bone organ are fed....but we try to cycle as many parts of the animal and use the parts of as many animals as possible to mimic feeding a whole animal.
> 
> whole prey is feeding the entire animal...if i had land and several animals that were large, i would feed that way and never get anything done because i'd be fascinated.
> 
> i guess since we are looking from the other side of the looking glass....we know what raw does.....we see it every day and as time goes by, my dogs get healthier and healthier...it's a progressive thing....
> 
> for you, though, you're outside looking in at all these people saying the same thing, but it's not part of your experience which makes your skepticism and curiousity and caution more understandable.
> 
> on the other hand, sometimes a leap of faith is required as it is with this....


Thank You so much for your post. I really appreciate the support and information.

I can respect the germaphobia being my boyfriend had MRSA 2yrs ago and going thru that with him. Also, having a little issue with being a control freak myself...my boyfriend would prob say more than a littlehwell: 

I am guilty as well for feeding my dogs kibble for years...given that it was premium...it was still mostly garbage in a bag which I didn't know at the time. I worked with The Humane Society thru most of my 20's and this is where/when I began to learn about ingredients in commercial food. I have continually researched and tried to gain knowledge of better practice in feeding our beloved pets. It has become a passion of mine since losing my beloved "Little One" to cancer and since dealing with Yogi's allergies. This is what lead me to PMR.

As I have stated in other post have been an organic mostly raw food eater myself for 7yrs and should have been onto this yrs ago. I am a health advocate and believe in feeding oneself as close as one can to foods natural state. This is what I want for Yogi. I'm just a little late to the game but better late than never. 

I love your last few statements because that is exactly what it is just being cautious. 

In regards to B.A.R.F this is what I was considering and nothing more except for some raw meaty bones for natural teeth cleaning. This is just another alternative or choice we were looking at...considering. 

*PAW NATURAW *Raw Frozen Grinds (B.A.R.F.) for Pets

INGREDIENTS: Organic chicken and ground organic chicken bone, organic chicken heart, organic chicken liver, and organic chicken gizzard.

GUARANTEED ANALYSIS: Crude protein 16% min; crude fat 9% min; crude fiber 1% max; moisture 70% max.

TRANSPARENCY: Organic chicken and ground organic chicken bone (92%) and organic chicken organs (8%).

Other Flavors: Turkey, Beef, Bison 


I am in the process of reading orijen white paper...half way thru. A really great read and makes me feel more confident along with everyone's support and info. Thanks to you all!!!


----------



## frogdog

Herzo said:


> Yes re that's what I was thinking, are some people thinking BARF is premade. I have Billinghersts book and he did have meat with bone in it. It has been a very long time since I read it and don't know where it is now. All I can remember is that he was saying chicken wings were a perfect meat to bone ratio. Also necks.
> 
> I don't care if you want to feed PMR or BARF I would want to make my own most of the time, not sayen I wouldn't have the premade in the freezer just in case of an emergency.
> 
> frogdog what does your vet say about the difference in the bacteria infection in premade raw or PMR. How could that be any different if they have both been frozen other than you buy it from the grocery store or the dog food company gets it from where ever. I wonder if they are just getting a little use to the BARF because it has been talked about more than PMR. Maybe when PMR is talked about more they will get a little use to it, we can only hope.


We were fixing Yogi's food ourselves (rather I was) but were not economically smart and were spending $100 a week. Yes, I know not very brilliant, lol. This is when we turned to premade for the time being until I researched further concerning other methods like PMR.

I spoke with him only 15 minutes because he admittedly didn't have the knowledge concerning PMR. He did address all concerns and questions I had. He informed me though *rare* there is a possiblity as with any food rather kibble, premade or raw of infection but freezing first before feeding would cut down any chance.


----------



## schtuffy

frogdog said:


> Thank You for your post and link concerning salmonella. My concerns were an act of caution out of love for my pet which I believe everyone can understand on DFC. Yesterday was an information overload day along with the butcher looking like my head had turned into Medusa, and he wanted to jump over the counter and shake (what he thought) some sense into me, lol.


Trust me, we've all been there :wink:


----------



## schtuffy

frogdog said:


> I spoke with him only 15 minutes because he admittedly didn't have the knowledge concerning PMR. He did address all concerns and questions I had. He informed me though *rare* there is a possiblity as with any food rather kibble, premade or raw of infection but freezing first before feeding would cut down any chance.


Ahh, but you see that is where he may have mispoken. Freezing does not sterilize, and in many cases will not do anything to bacteria except to make it dormant. Assuming freezing did kill whatever strains were in the meat, you are still left with spores, which are highly resistant little capsules of bacterial DNA that can withstand extreme conditions (in the case of botulism, I think it can survive boiling). So freezing, what many people may not realize, is merely to prevent further proliferation of bacteria and to slow down reproduction.

I was just reading an article by Dr. Sanjay Gupta from CNN, where he was saying almost everything he learned beyond his 4 years of medical school, he had to learn by himself and through his own experiences. This article was about nutrition, and he went on to say how he had very little knowledge about nutrition, despite his medical background. I couldn't help but to draw parallels with vets and raw feeding. You go to vet school, med school, pharmacy school, or college even...and get all this technical information crammed into your brain in 4 years time...but what truly makes you good at what you do is your experience and what you can learn from it :smile:

I didn't even bother to bring up raw feeding with my old vet, because I knew the kind of answers I would get. Instead, I did my own research and took a leap of faith. Now I have an awesome wholistic vet who can answer my raw questions (not that I really need to ask, because the people on here are wonderful!), tell me about over vaccination, and even tell me where he gets his pasture fed beef and lamb from!


----------



## frogdog

schtuffy said:


> Ahh, but you see that is where he may have mispoken. Freezing does not sterilize, and in many cases will not do anything to bacteria except to make it dormant. Assuming freezing did kill whatever strains were in the meat, you are still left with spores, which are highly resistant little capsules of bacterial DNA that can withstand extreme conditions (in the case of botulism, I think it can survive boiling). So freezing, what many people may not realize, is merely to prevent further proliferation of bacteria and to slow down reproduction.
> 
> I was just reading an article by Dr. Sanjay Gupta from CNN, where he was saying almost everything he learned beyond his 4 years of medical school, he had to learn by himself and through his own experiences. This article was about nutrition, and he went on to say how he had very little knowledge about nutrition, despite his medical background. I couldn't help but to draw parallels with vets and raw feeding. You go to vet school, med school, pharmacy school, or college even...and get all this technical information crammed into your brain in 4 years time...but what truly makes you good at what you do is your experience and what you can learn from it :smile:
> 
> I didn't even bother to bring up raw feeding with my old vet, because I knew the kind of answers I would get. Instead, I did my own research and took a leap of faith. Now I have an awesome wholistic vet who can answer my raw questions (not that I really need to ask, because the people on here are wonderful!), tell me about over vaccination, and even tell me where he gets his pasture fed beef and lamb from!


Very interesting, thanks. I mispoke myself stating "would cut down any chance" when he actually said "would *help* cut down any chance" not much different but he didn't mean there wouldn't be a possibility if frozen just that it would cut down on probability.

I am familiar with Dr Sanjay Grupta and have experienced my own doctor's ignorance towards nutrition. I now see a physician at Duke Integrative Medicine. It's a night and day comparison to doctor's in my area.

I have found a holistic vet about 50 minutes from where I live and seriously thinking of calling. I really don't have a need now other than if I wanted to talk about nutrition and PMR but that's why I am on this forum)


----------



## frogdog

As of this morning...Yogi has exactly 6 days left of Stella and Chewy's...which is good because he has decided he's over this food and not wanting to eat. This has happened with *every* single food we have tried since his allergy outbreaks...one week at most and he's done with that particular food. I believe in his own behavior he is trying to tell us...come on parents, *please*...in regards to his food. The only time I've seen him enjoy or seem pleased at eating are the few times I have fed him some raw meat. Let me tell you, this dog was HAPPY and would not leave my side in the kitchen. So without further ado, I'm going to take the plunge...leap of faith...in *7 days*. IT'S ON BRING IT, LOL!!!


----------



## Scarlett_O'

frogdog said:


> As of this morning...Yogi has exactly 6 days left of Stella and Chewy's...which is good because he has decided he's over this food and not wanting to eat. This has happened with *every* single food we have tried since his allergy outbreaks...one week at most and he's done with that particular food. I believe in his own behavior he is trying to tell us...come on parents, *please*...in regards to his food. The only time I've seen him enjoy or seem pleased at eating are the few times I have fed him some raw meat. Let me tell you, this dog was HAPPY and would not leave my side in the kitchen. So without further ado, I'm going to take the plunge...leap of faith...in *7 days*. IT'S ON BRING IT, LOL!!!


YAY YAY YAY!!!:biggrin: :thumb:

See....Hub was NEVER a big FOOD dog, my Mum had to try like 15 different treats till she figured out one that ACTUALLY worked when training....HOWEVER on raw he is ALL about food, treats, food and treats!!LOL :lol:


----------



## frogdog

Scarlett_O' said:


> YAY YAY YAY!!!:biggrin: :thumb:
> 
> See....Hub was NEVER a big FOOD dog, my Mum had to try like 15 different treats till she figured out one that ACTUALLY worked when training....HOWEVER on raw he is ALL about food, treats, food and treats!!LOL :lol:


Funny little Frenchies! I don't believe Yogi ever came across a treat he wouldn't eat but come dinner time...whole different story. He's like the person who just wants appetizers but no entree, lol. He's all about the hor devours. op2:


----------



## magicre

well? what did yogi eat today?


----------



## frogdog

magicre said:


> well? what did yogi eat today?


LOL, well so far it's been a piece of dehydrated bison jerky. I only feed him once a day around 5:00 and as I'm typing this he is refusing his dinner...go figure. PMR might come sooner than expected. I'm thinking of picking up chicken quarters tomorrow. It seems hard to find chicken backs at least at this time. I am so interested or rather anticipating his first response/reaction to raw.


----------



## frogdog

My question of the day is....when buying chicken will the package state unenhanced, salt-free, no salt added or what exactly am I looking for??? I think when it comes to buying meat...I need one of those books..."Buying Meat for Dummies", LOL.


----------



## Scarlett_O'

frogdog said:


> My question of the day is....when buying chicken will the package state unenhanced, salt-free, no salt added or what exactly am I looking for??? I think when it comes to buying meat...I need one of those books..."Buying Meat for Dummies", LOL.


First off I would suggest seeing which out of chicken quarters or whole chicken is going to be a smarter buy...I know here I would spend about $.15/lbs more if I bought chicken quarters rather then whole chickens!:smile:

and I just looked at the Foster Farms chicken...it states on the front "No Sodium Added" then "Not a Sodium Free food" so then I turn it over and it states that for a single serving it has about 80mg of sodium. (And that is what I look for when looking at non-name brands as well.....but I try and stick with FF chickens if I cant get organic, or locally raised ones!:thumb


----------



## frogdog

Scarlett_O' said:


> First off I would suggest seeing which out of chicken quarters or whole chicken is going to be a smarter buy...I know here I would spend about $.15/lbs more if I bought chicken quarters rather then whole chickens!:smile:
> 
> and I just looked at the Foster Farms chicken...it states on the front "No Sodium Added" then "Not a Sodium Free food" so then I turn it over and it states that for a single serving it has about 80mg of sodium. (And that is what I look for when looking at non-name brands as well.....but I try and stick with FF chickens if I cant get organic, or locally raised ones!:thumb


Thank Ya Thank Ya Thank Ya!!! I have never felt so "dunce" before. Who knew being one that didn't eat meat would be at such a loss...this is going to be a real adventure and prob rather comical once I get past the basic chicken. I have seriously never bought anything but boneless chicken breast, filet mignon, NY strip and hamburger for when we are having dinner guest or grilling out. I usually leave the meat to Charlie, my boyfriend. Seafood is an easy one for me because that is where I will make exceptions....LOVE IT.

Hopefully will not have any issues finding all natural because that is all I intend to feed. The organic grocery I shop does not carry anything but boneless chicken breast...no other chicken...believe me, it wouldn't be worth asking to special order.

Earthfare already acted like I escaped from the mental ward inquiring about chicken quarters and backs...crazy. The only thing they carry with bone in chicken is the breast and for one piece it's around $12...no lie.


----------



## Scarlett_O'

frogdog said:


> Thank Ya Thank Ya Thank Ya!!! I have never felt so "dunce" before. Who knew being one that didn't eat meat would be at such a loss...this is going to be a real adventure and prob rather comical once I get past the basic chicken. I have seriously never bought anything but boneless chicken breast, filet mignon, NY strip and hamburger for when we are having dinner quest or grilling out. I usually leave the meat to Charlie, my boyfriend. Seafood is an easy one for me because that is where I will make exceptions....LOVE IT.
> 
> Hopefully will not have any issues finding all natural because that is all I intend to feed. The organic grocery I shop does not carry anything but boneless chicken breast...no other chicken...believe me, it wouldn't be worth asking to special order.
> 
> Earthfare already acted like I escaped from the mental ward inquiring about chicken quarters and backs...crazy. The only thing they carry with bone in chicken is the breast and for one piece it's around $12...no lie.


NO PROBLEM!!:biggrin: We are here to answer any/all questions you have!:thumb: (where in SC do you life? I cant remember!LOL I will see if I can help you find somewhere out there! However I didnt start on backs....just whole chickens!:wink


----------



## frogdog

Scarlett_O' said:


> NO PROBLEM!!:biggrin: We are here to answer any/all questions you have!:thumb: (where in SC do you life? I cant remember!LOL I will see if I can help you find somewhere out there! However I didnt start on backs....just whole chickens!:wink


You THE BEST! I live in Columbia/Lexington and have inquired to a few with no return calls.
LAWD GURL, I don't and wouldn't even know what to do with a whole chicken, lol. PITIFUL, uh???!!!
I may need to take PMR Class 101. I've been reading and watching videos but some of the best info has been on here.
If this was raw for humans would have it covered...no PROBLEM.


----------



## Scarlett_O'

frogdog said:


> You THE BEST! I live in Columbia/Lexington and have inquired to a few with no return calls.
> LAWD GURL, I don't and wouldn't even know what to do with a whole chicken, lol. PITIFUL, uh???!!!
> I may need to take PMR Class 101. I've been reading and watching videos but some of the best info has been on here.
> If this was raw for humans would have it covered...no PROBLEM.


Ok...Ill PM you if/when I find anything!:wink:
I had husband buy one just so I could video hacking it up!:tongue:


----------



## frogdog

Scarlett_O' said:


> Ok...Ill PM you if/when I find anything!:wink:
> I had husband buy one just so I could video hacking it up!:tongue:


You're super fast Thank You!!!
I think that would be one comical event in this house...me hacking away at a whole chicken...I would just be lucky not to hack off my fingers.


----------



## Scarlett_O'

frogdog said:


> You're super fast Thank You!!!
> I think that would be one comical event in this house...me hacking away at a whole chicken...I would just be lucky not to hack off my fingers.



HAHA...Yep...nothing else to do today!:lol: The boys are all laying around chewing on calf and lamb necks...and husband and I are watching 24....and Im on here!LOL
HEHE...I use meat shears for a reason!:tongue1:


----------



## frogdog

Scarlett_O' said:


> HAHA...Yep...nothing else to do today!:lol: The boys are all laying around chewing on calf and lamb necks...and husband and I are watching 24....and Im on here!LOL
> HEHE...I use meat shears for a reason!:tongue1:


Lawd it sounds like I might be investing in some kitchen utencils/supplies. Yea, it's a laid back one here. Charlie was sick all last wknd and first part of the week...took care of him...now I'm sick with what he had...no FUN. So, I've really had time looking and exploring on here)


----------



## magicre

how much does yogi weigh?


----------



## frogdog

magicre said:


> how much does yogi weigh?


He's a biggie...not fat...solid, stocky...29 lbs

Since he is refusing his premade Stella & Chewy's thinking of starting PMR tomorrow


----------



## magicre

frogdog said:


> He's a biggie...not fat...solid, stocky...29 lbs
> 
> Since he is refusing his premade Stella & Chewy's thinking of starting PMR tomorrow


my pug is solid stocky....very wide chest...hard to believe he only weighs 20-21 lbs....

when you do decide to start....and figure out 2% of his body weight.....feed a little less than that until he starts to get used to it.....

and happy feeding to you


----------



## frogdog

magicre said:


> my pug is solid stocky....very wide chest...hard to believe he only weighs 20-21 lbs....
> 
> when you do decide to start....and figure out 2% of his body weight.....feed a little less than that until he starts to get used to it.....
> 
> and happy feeding to you


Thank You! We are going to try and finish the last few days of his food and by the end of the week will be joining ya'll on PMR. Yay...I hope, lol. :becky:


----------



## schtuffy

Ya, I find that using kitchen shears is a whole lot easier that hacking away with a knife, especially when your hands start to get all slimy and slippery! They work great for chicken, but I was using them on turkey ribs the other day and it worked like a charm :smile:


----------



## meggels

Oh man. Murphy is such a tiny little nugget. He's 20.5 lbs lol.


----------



## frogdog

meggels said:


> Oh man. Murphy is such a tiny little nugget. He's 20.5 lbs lol.


He's a biggin...everyone says he's about as big as you, lol...you should see me carrying him...lawd it's a LOAD


----------



## frogdog

Scarlett_O' said:


> First off I would suggest seeing which out of chicken quarters or whole chicken is going to be a smarter buy...I know here I would spend about $.15/lbs more if I bought chicken quarters rather then whole chickens!:smile:
> 
> and I just looked at the Foster Farms chicken...it states on the front "No Sodium Added" then "Not a Sodium Free food" so then I turn it over and it states that for a single serving it has about 80mg of sodium. (And that is what I look for when looking at non-name brands as well.....but I try and stick with FF chickens if I cant get organic, or locally raised ones!:thumb


Abi, Charlie is off to the grocery store to pick up chicken quarters...hmmm...let's see what he brings home, lol. I told him if anything look for Foster Farms. Yogi is not eating anymore and has literally turned his lip up in disgust when I tried to feed him by hand. He started doing the backward electric slide on me....and not in a happy dance way either


----------



## spookychick13

For the record, my little 11lb cavalier king charles spaniel went through similar issues with allergies and being a picky eater. Cavaliers are known for being garbage disposals, for the record, and he would go sometimes 48 hours with nothing at all to eat.

He took to raw like a duck to water. I think he knew that kibble made him feel itchy and miserable so he didn't want to eat it.
Now he'll scarf ANYTHING down I offer.


----------



## Scarlett_O'

frogdog said:


> Abi, Charlie is off to the grocery store to pick up chicken quarters...hmmm...let's see what he brings home, lol. I told him if anything look for Foster Farms. Yogi is not eating anymore and has literally turned his lip up in disgust when I tried to feed him by hand. He started doing the backward electric slide on me....and not in a happy dance way either


HAHA...well I hope Charlie came back with chicken quarters!LOL Jesse always calls and says "OK....tell me again...WHAT do the boys need!?"LOL (and that is even 3 months into it!:tongue

And yep...I would say Yogi knows exactly what he wants!LOL My boys stopped eating their kibble about 2 days before my designated switch date....so they got switched early.....they both where EXTREMELY happy!LOL


----------



## frogdog

Scarlett_O' said:


> HAHA...well I hope Charlie came back with chicken quarters!LOL Jesse always calls and says "OK....tell me again...WHAT do the boys need!?"LOL (and that is even 3 months into it!:tongue
> 
> And yep...I would say Yogi knows exactly what he wants!LOL My boys stopped eating their kibble about 2 days before my designated switch date....so they got switched early.....they both where EXTREMELY happy!LOL


Unfortunately, Charlie said he could not find any unenhanced chicken quarters :tsk: anywhere in the store. So, he brought home hamburger...lol. Looks like I'm making a trip to the store and it's not like we don't have 10 groceries close to where we live.


----------



## frogdog

spookychick13 said:


> For the record, my little 11lb cavalier king charles spaniel went through similar issues with allergies and being a picky eater. Cavaliers are known for being garbage disposals, for the record, and he would go sometimes 48 hours with nothing at all to eat.
> 
> He took to raw like a duck to water. I think he knew that kibble made him feel itchy and miserable so he didn't want to eat it.
> Now he'll scarf ANYTHING down I offer.


Well let's hope he acts like a "duck", lol. Lawd this better be the answer:amen:


----------



## Scarlett_O'

frogdog said:


> Unfortunately, Charlie said he could not find any unenhanced chicken quarters :tsk: anywhere in the store. So, he brought home hamburger...lol. Looks like I'm making a trip to the store and it's not like we don't have 10 groceries close to where we live.


HAHA...silly man!:tongue:

You better just go do it your self...it will be a TON less stress......and probably faster as well!HAHAA


----------



## frogdog

Scarlett_O' said:


> HAHA...silly man!:tongue:
> 
> You better just go do it your self...it will be a TON less stress......and probably faster as well!HAHAA


No kidding!!! We or rather I fed him some raw hamburger and the dog was as happy as ever pushing that bowl all over the kitchen. He kept going back to his bowl repeatedly like food was going to magically appear so fed him a little more.:thumb:

We've cooked hamburger for him before but never fed it to him raw...wow...what a happy boy. I can't wait to feed him some chicken quarters. I also showed Charlie some YouTube videos of French Bulldogs eating raw and seemed to ease him.:becky:


----------



## Scarlett_O'

frogdog said:


> No kidding!!! We or rather I fed him some raw hamburger and the dog was as happy as ever pushing that bowl all over the kitchen. He kept going back to his bowl repeatedly like food was going to magically appear so fed him a little more.:thumb:
> 
> We've cooked hamburger for him before but never fed it to him raw...wow...what a happy boy. I can't wait to feed him some chicken quarters. *I also showed Charlie some YouTube videos of French Bulldogs eating raw and seemed to ease him.:becky:*


YAY!!:biggrin:

Always good, no GREAT, to show those "slower men" the videos!!HAHAHA


----------



## frogdog

Scarlett_O' said:


> YAY!!:biggrin:
> 
> Always good, no GREAT, to show those "slower men" the videos!!HAHAHA


das right!!! Also, they just give in eventually anyway:tongue:


----------



## frogdog

Today is the day, I stock up on chicken quarters and officially start raw tomorrow.:cheer2:
Please let me know if I should buy anything or something else...chicken backs seem impossible here.


----------



## Scarlett_O'

frogdog said:


> Today is the day, I stock up on chicken quarters and officially start raw tomorrow.:cheer2:
> Please let me know if I should buy anything or something else...chicken backs seem impossible here.


WOOOOOT!!!:biggrin:
Cant wait to hear how it goes!!:biggrin1:

And I know what you mean about back....my Mum and Dad cant find them ANYWHERE! While I could buy them from like 5 different places without really trying!!:nod:


----------



## schtuffy

frogdog said:


> Today is the day, I stock up on chicken quarters and officially start raw tomorrow.:cheer2:
> Please let me know if I should buy anything or something else...chicken backs seem impossible here.


Yay! Good luck!! And keep us updated :smile:

Don't worry about the backs...I couldn't find them when I was starting either. Remember you may want to trim off excess skin and fat if you see soft poops :wink:


----------



## frogdog

Thanks! I just got off the phone with a distributor (only one to call me back and after almost 2wks) who also feeds raw...very interesting talk. I can't order less than a 40lb case and don't feel like that's necessary at this point. I mean...we are just starting and slowly eventhough he disagreed with this approach. I feel grocery shopping is our best choice to start and easiest.


----------



## Herzo

Good luck, I think it will all go well. And I would think that would be good for you as your dog isn't that big and if you need to you can stock up later.


----------



## Scarlett_O'

Soooooo how has it gone?!??!!?:biggrin:


----------



## Khan

Looking forward to hearing how the first couple days have gone.
As for the buying in the grocery store vs 40lbs. I would go with the 40lbs in a heartbeat!
When we first started I was buying from the grocery store (Check the Reduced section) anyway, it seemed like I was ALWAYS coming home and cutting/bagging their food. I'm a "little" OCD, well at least I like to think it's a "Little" LOL! and I have all 3 dogs food labeled bagged and in their own spots in the freezer. Depending on who needed what I would package it for that dog. Anyway, it just seemed like that's all I was doing. I started buying 40lb boxes at Cash & Carry, and that really seemed to help. This way I was only spending 2hrs and could get over a months worth bagged for Shelby, about a month for Bonzi and about 15 days for Khan! Just makes it nice when you have it all done and don't have to worry about it for a while. I've actually taken it a step farther and now about every 3 months I put an order together with a friend and we buy about 400lbs each from a wholesaler, I spend the next few days bagging it all and I'm set for about 2 months! Again that's my OCD, I really like to see the shelves filled with all their food, neatly stacked and labeled!! Ha! LOL!


----------



## magicre

i swear, this has been the longest drum roll DFC has ever known LOL

Well? Did we have liftoff?


----------



## kady05

frogdog said:


> Thanks! I just got off the phone with a distributor (only one to call me back and after almost 2wks) who also feeds raw...very interesting talk. I can't order less than a 40lb case and don't feel like that's necessary at this point. I mean...we are just starting and slowly eventhough he disagreed with this approach. I feel grocery shopping is our best choice to start and easiest.


You should be able to do just fine getting your stuff from grocery stores, just keep an eye out for sales! Quarters go on sale quite often, around here they usually put them on sale for .49/lb., which is great. I also just got split chicken breasts for .99/lb. (for boneless meals).


----------



## schtuffy

Ahhh....the suspense is killing me....! :biggrin:


----------



## frogdog

OMG that was hittin pay dirt...rather chicken dirt, lol. :whoo: Do I sound crazy saying that was fun??? arty: Well, it was my lucky day not only was all chicken on sale but they had backs. :high5: I bought chicken backs - super cheap to me $1.00 a pack, quarters, and a mix pack of wings, drummies and thighs. Also, they had turkey necks and wings...bought those too. When I got home had enough to feed for 2 months if that was all I had to feed. The good thing I saw livers and other dog goodies. I think, Yogi knows this is for him because he is literally sitting in front of the freezer...lookin like PLEASE :hungry: feed me.

This is the craziest thing...I can't wait til this evening so I can feed him...I'm actually excited...my life must be boring, lol.

Yes, this has been one long drum roll!!! I apologize for the delay this weekend but had the football game on Saturday and left for the beach early Sunday morning (last minute decision) arriving home late last night. I was going to post a message but was just too tired. We decided to wait until today to start raw because of the busy weekend and of course Charlie picked up hamburger again for Yogi...lawd this man. We are ready for lift off at 5:00 TODAY.

I have to say...I did ask myself on the way home from the grocery store...should I have bought all that meat without knowing how he's going to do. ray:


----------



## Scarlett_O'

frogdog said:


> OMG that was hittin pay dirt...rather chicken dirt, lol. :whoo: Do I sound crazy saying that was fun??? arty: Well, it was my lucky day not only was all chicken on sale but they had backs. :high5: I bought chicken backs - super cheap to me $1.00 a pack, quarters, and a mix pack of wings, drummies and thighs. Also, they had turkey necks and wings...bought those too. When I got home had enough to feed for 2 months if that was all I had to feed. The good thing I saw livers and other dog goodies. I think, Yogi knows this is for him because he is literally sitting in front of the freezer...lookin like PLEASE :hungry: feed me.
> 
> This is the craziest thing...I can't wait til this evening so I can feed him...I'm actually excited...my life must be boring, lol.
> 
> Yes, this has been one long drum roll!!! I apologize for the delay this weekend but had the football game on Saturday and left for the beach early Sunday morning (last minute decision) arriving home late last night. I was going to post a message but was just too tired. We decided to wait until today to start raw because of the busy weekend and of course Charlie picked up hamburger again for Yogi...lawd this man. We are ready for lift off at 5:00 TODAY.
> 
> I have to say...I did ask myself on the way home from the grocery store...should I have bought all that meat without knowing how he's going to do. ray:


That is AWESOME!!:biggrin:

SOOOOO EXCITING when you can get GREAT deals like that!!!:dance:

I can NOTTTTT wait to hear how it goes!!:biggrin:



And ah man...silly men and their need for no bones!LOL


----------



## BoxerPaws

frogdog said:


> I have to say...I did ask myself on the way home from the grocery store...should I have bought all that meat without knowing how he's going to do. ray:


I totally got overzealous with my meat purchases before we started, too! Hahahaha! We STILL, after a month and a half, have a lamb breast waiting in the freezer. Lol. Not to mention 5 venison steaks that I got suuuuuper cheap!! But when there's a deal, you jump on it!!

Now when it comes time to actually feed, just keep yourself calm and keep repeating, "Go slow; go slow; go slow...." Lol. Zoey is doing beautifully now that we're chilling out and taking smaller steps! Dare I say it for fear of jinxing myself, but we might be able to try some pork this weekend if her awesome digestion keeps up!

Can't wait to hear how Yogi does tonight! I bet he dives right in and crunches away!


----------



## lmgakg

I have an 11 year old Maltese who was kibble all his life and we have been to numerous vets to find out that steroids were the only option so he didn't eat himself to death. It was terrible. In January of 2011, I discovered raw and switched....it was literally a miracle. I will NEVER go back and I kick myself daily for not finding it sooner!!!! My vet just recently told me that he was "proud of me" for finding something that worked so well for my baby...(my vet is not pro-raw, obviously not against it, but not for it either) and that my Maltese has "amazing" teeth for his age and he appears to be half his age!! 

Just go for it. Don't look back!!!! 
Lisa


----------



## frogdog

*It's All GOOD!!!*





, lol...there's your drumroll:drum:

The suspense has ended...eace::amen:

It was a 30 minute production but he got it done!!! I believe, he spent more time licking the chicken than devouring it. He did a happy bounce around on his bed after and then conked out. What a relief...no turning up the lip towards his food...no begging like he's starving after dinner. Yay for first day!!!

A couple pics during...


----------



## xellil

Congratulations!

I think you set some kind of record - 18 pages between first post and first meal


----------



## magicre

Hal...................lay...........lu..............yah.......


----------



## frogdog

LOL...I second that!!! 

I have a question in regards to feeding amount...I must be doing something wrong because when I figure 2% of 30...I get .60...compared to what others are feeding know this is wrong. :help:


----------



## xellil

.6 is correct if you are figuring pounds - if you want ounces, multiply the weight in pounds by 16 and then get the 2% and you come out with 9.6 ounces


----------



## Scarlett_O'

WOOOOOOOOT!!!!!:biggrin:

That is SOOOOOO awesome!!:happy:

LOVE the pictures!!!!:thumb:

He looks OH SOOOO happy!!!:happy: 

And like xe said, it is .6 pounds...or 9.6 oz!:smile:




(ps. Did you get my message on facebook?:smile


----------



## frogdog

Scarlett_O' said:


> WOOOOOOOOT!!!!!:biggrin:
> 
> That is SOOOOOO awesome!!:happy:
> 
> LOVE the pictures!!!!:thumb:
> 
> He looks OH SOOOO happy!!!:happy:
> 
> And like xe said, it is .6 pounds...or 9.6 oz!:smile:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (ps. Did you get my message on facebook?:smile


Thank Ya Thank Ya Thank Ya....he gave me a big smile after.

I cheated him out of 3.6 oz because I was having a :doh: moment in time. He'll get his 9.6 oz tomorrow. He did so well and great late night stool...no throwing up...all's fab on the homefront. So good so far...we shall see tomorrow.

You should have seen and heard Charlie when he got home from work when I showed him all the meat in the freezer. Now...at this point...we have gotten past the whole completely raw ordeal that was last weeks soap opera. I don't know how many...Days of Our Lives...I have to answer "yes" to his remark "your going to feed him chicken with the bone". It seems every conversation on this topic is like the first...like he's never heard it...a little selective hearing going on. I showed him pics and he couldn't believe it...response - "he really ate that and liked it". A picture speaks a thousand words. hoto: I took video also but haven't viewed it yet.

I guess, you know by now that I got your FB message...thanks you're such a HUGE help.


----------



## kady05

I actually started Piper on about.. a little over 1/2 her recommended amount when I first started her. She's supposed to get 1.3lbs. a day (so 19oz., at 3%) and I was giving around 12-13oz. daily for the first 3 days. Didn't want to overload her system all at once!


----------



## Khan

We had many a Days of Our Lives moments when we first started, as well as the "I'll go shopping" which is when he brought home a 5# roll of hamburger and ground turkey! Wonder what it is about our guys and bones!!?? I though I had the only crazy one; but apparently there's others!! LOL!!

As for the amount, it may be a good idea to keep his food a little light in the beginning. After a week or so if he still has perfect poo, you can add a little more working up to his 9-10 oz. Remember the 2% is Daily Intake. If you are feeding twice a day he gets 1/2 & 1/2! 

So 18 pages later you are officially a Raw Feeder!!! Woohoo!!


----------



## jenv101

Congrats!! Glad it all went well :smile:


----------



## schtuffy

....YAY!!!! arty:

Those pics are the best! 

So glad to hear that Yogi liked it :biggrin:

Louis did the EXACT same thing for his first meal, he spent about 25 of the 45 minutes licking his first chicken wing. So cute! Yogi will be a pro bone cruncher in no time :wink:

ETA: and don't worry about the 3.6 oz, less is better when starting! :thumb:


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## magicre

i'm thinking you might want to back off the amounts for a little while.....in the beginning.....instead of 9 point whatever it was....stick to 3 or so ounces per meal....just for the first few weeks...

he has to transition.....and in this case, less is more.

on the other hand....yayayayayayayay.....ya done it!


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## frogdog

Ya'll are the BEST and have appreciated all the encouragement along with all the info...no worries...I'm sure I'll be asking alot more as we get deep into this. :wink:

I couldn't help it and had to go back to the store after hearing about prices being paid for chicken quarters, etc. I just had to take advantage of the sale going on. Another lucky day...turkey wings were a $1.50 off today:clap2:...who woulda thunk it, lol. The store was almost completely out of everything I picked up yesterday. I had a talk with the butcher and was informed that these specialty meats such as: turkey necks, chicken backs, chicken feet are only available beginning of the month. There were chicken feet galore yesterday and not a one left today...now I know. He did tell me I could buy by the case but would be same price as on the floor....what...crazy:crazy:. Anyways, talk about luck picking yesterday to go otherwise after today don't think there would have been anything left. So, we are prob set for 3/4 months except for buying a third protein. I'm thinking quail or beef...what do ya'll think??? We have a quail farm here locally that my boyfriend has done business with. 

I agree and going to stick with minimal is best at this point. Also, I've got us set where I can work on purchasing from local farms next go round.

Here are some pics of my 2 day shopping bonanza....$60 of meat (chicken backs, chicken quarters, turkey necks, turkey wings, chicken hearts, gizzards and livers)...not bad, I think. Let me know.


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## magicre

as long as you have the room for storage (freezer) go to town...have fun with sales....

but you're going to be feeding chicken for at least the first two weeks....and then you're going to 
s l o w l y increase amounts to the level he needs to eat....and then you're going to intro the second protein, whilst still feeding chicken.....and then you're going to alternate the chicken and turkey for a week or two...

see where this is going?


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## frogdog

magicre said:


> as long as you have the room for storage (freezer) go to town...have fun with sales....
> 
> but you're going to be feeding chicken for at least the first two weeks....and then you're going to
> s l o w l y increase amounts to the level he needs to eat....and then you're going to intro the second protein, whilst still feeding chicken.....and then you're going to alternate the chicken and turkey for a week or two...
> 
> see where this is going?


Oh...yea...I gotcha. I'm a mad organizer...think of...Sleeping with The Enemy, lol...I'm just not mean...do it with a SMILE.
I would like to have everything in order and no worries regarding meat purchases for about 3 months. Awww how great that would be because we have had a trying last 4 months with Yogi.


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## magicre

i am that way, too, which is how i ended up with two and a half freezers filled with enough food for a year. 

i just remember, in the beginning, buying liver and kidney and beef and pork and all kinds of things on sale..not to mention the exotics of goat and lamb, oh my.....i actually had uteri......and didn't realise i wasn't going to use any of it for a while.....

it was a d'oh moment for me when i realised i would have to buy another freezer or wait until their digestive systems caught up with my purchases.

in the end, i did both.


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## frogdog

LOL! I know exactly what you mean because I could have done more damage but stopped myself. I looked at beef and lamb while I was there and thank goodness they weren't on sale or this would be a different story. Also, I'll let Charlie deal with..."where's the beef"...and quail. He needs to contribute too...I'm just sayin.

I don't want another freezer unless Charlie decides its necessary...I mean we only have one dog.


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## magicre

frogdog said:


> LOL! I know exactly what you mean because I could have done more damage but stopped myself. I looked at beef and lamb while I was there and thank goodness it wasn't on sale or this would be a different story. Also, I'll let Charlie deal with..."where's the beef"...and quail. He needs to contribute too...I'm just sayin.
> 
> I don't want another freezer unless Charlie decides its necessary...I mean we only have one dog.


i have one dog who weighs under twenty pounds and one dog who weighs 36 pounds. we feed under a pound a day. 

i said the same thing. aw, we won't need another freezer....oh honey, look at this. i can get venison. i just have to buy 60 pounds of it. but look at the price. LOL


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## frogdog

Lawd...don't tell me that. I would like to keep it nice and simple in the kitchen freezer but time will tell.


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## schtuffy

Don't worry, I've been feeding raw for about a year and I still only have my kitchen fridge. It keeps me in check :wink: If I had another freezer...it would be hard to control my meat-buying impulses! There have been countless times when I'm staring at the meat section, thinking about how I could buy all the meat off the shelf, except for the fact that I don't have space at home. With one small dog, it's definitely doable.


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## frogdog

schtuffy said:


> ....YAY!!!! arty:
> 
> Those pics are the best!
> 
> So glad to hear that Yogi liked it :biggrin:
> 
> Louis did the EXACT same thing for his first meal, he spent about 25 of the 45 minutes licking his first chicken wing. So cute! Yogi will be a pro bone cruncher in no time :wink:
> 
> ETA: and don't worry about the 3.6 oz, less is better when starting! :thumb:


Thank You!!! 

We're getting there...down to 15 minutes today, eventhough, I had to hold it for him the entire time. Oh how spoiled they are


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## frogdog

Khan said:


> We had many a Days of Our Lives moments when we first started, as well as the "I'll go shopping" which is when he brought home a 5# roll of hamburger and ground turkey! Wonder what it is about our guys and bones!!?? I though I had the only crazy one; but apparently there's others!! LOL!!
> 
> As for the amount, it may be a good idea to keep his food a little light in the beginning. After a week or so if he still has perfect poo, you can add a little more working up to his 9-10 oz. Remember the 2% is Daily Intake. If you are feeding twice a day he gets 1/2 & 1/2!
> 
> So 18 pages later you are officially a Raw Feeder!!! Woohoo!!


LOL, thanks for the laugh cause that sounds just like Charlie (boyfriend). These crazy men...is there a club or something. He tried delaying with buying hamburger twice and kept telling me, "I can't find any unenhanced chicken"..."the stores don't have any"....hmmm...sure...I'm believen that one. Good try:rant:

Yogi gets fed once a day in the evening and sticking to less for now. 

Yes, FINALLY...now we're on a raw journey.


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## magicre

i thought you were feeding twice a day.....if possible, you may want to think about starting out that way and then going to once a day.


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## frogdog

We've haven't fed him twice a day since about 10 months of age...he would just leave morning food. (even when splitting his dinner meal for morning and night) He's doing well so far...good poops...doesn't beg or cry for food any other time...biggie is he seems satisfied at dinner time. FINALLY! So, do you think I need to up his food intake? I would rather not get him in the habit of wanting to eat morning time.


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## magicre

as long as he does okay on one feeding a day, that's fine. 

if he starts to have loose stools from too much at one sitting, then i'd go twice a day and then wean him back to once a day....


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## frogdog

He finished his 3rd day of raw and it has been smooth sailing so far. I believe we will stick to one chicken back for the first week at dinner time as long as he keeps doing well. Then, go to alternating with quarters...taking it slow. The poo is lookin good, lol. I have to say it's been a relief....NO more gas for Yogi...so far that is.


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## xellil

I was hoping for that - but dang my dogs can be gassy. And my little tiny 10 pound dog can clear a room at times. And I thought if they don't have carbs, they don't make gas!

I'm glad things are going so well.


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## schtuffy

I'm so happy to hear how well it's going! No poop problems and most importantly, he didn't turn his nose up at it! (Not that any of us really expected him to, of course :wink


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## frogdog

Yes, it's a raw miracle...he actually likes what he's eating 4 days in a row....can I get a "hallelujah holla back", lol. :roll: Wowsy, couldn't be coming along any better. We're down to 10 minutes of entree crunching. 

Tomorrow will be the first time Charlie will see Yogi eating raw:smile:

Concerning poops...Yogi has never gone more than three times daily and his usual was twice until his little time on raw hamburger and went only every other day...now he's going once a day and just a small amount. Is this good?

Also, is there any need to brush their teeth daily any longer?


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## Scarlett_O'

frogdog said:


> Yes, it's a raw miracle...he actually likes what he's eating 4 days in a row....can I get a "hallelujah holla back", lol. :roll: Wowsy, couldn't be coming along any better. We're down to 10 minutes of entree crunching.
> 
> Tomorrow will be the first time Charlie will see Yogi eating raw:smile:
> 
> Concerning poops...Yogi has never gone more than three times daily and his usual was twice until his little time on raw hamburger and went only every other day...now he's going once a day and just a small amount. Is this good?
> 
> Also, is there any need to brush their teeth daily any longer?


YAY YAY AYAYAYAYYAAYAYYAYAYA!!!!:dance: arty: :dance:

Once a day, and small is to be expected!:thumb:

Ive not brushed my boy's teeth since starting raw.....they dont need it!LOL (I think if he has a build up you could probably "help it along" by brushing as well....but they are getting a LOT of help with the bone and meat!:thumb


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## frogdog

yes, it's a WONDERFUL Thang!!!!!

oh he has pearly whites:biggrin:

if I hadn't made the change brushing alone was eventually not going to get it done

within one month feeding a particular food his teeth were getting buildup even with daily brushing...not good...nasty food and it's suppose to be high quality premade


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## tem_sat

frogdog said:


> yes, it's a WONDERFUL Thang!!!!!
> 
> oh he has pearly whites:biggrin:
> 
> if I hadn't made the change brushing alone was eventually not going to get it done
> 
> within one month feeding a particular food his teeth were getting buildup even with daily brushing...not good...nasty food and it's suppose to be high quality premade


Keep an eye on the canines, at the top near the gum line. The rest of his teeth should be fine without brushing.


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## frogdog

I know, I've read before but can't recall and too exhausted to go searching....

What should I be doing with all the fat I'm trimming...saving or throwing away? Skin too. Also, when can I stop trimming?


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## kady05

I only trimmed fat for the first week, after that, I left it all on. Was pleasantly surprised that Piper had no issues with that, seeing as she has a seriously sensitive stomach. 

And I threw the excess fat out.. I know some do save it though.


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## Scarlett_O'

frogdog said:


> I know, I've read before but can't recall and too exhausted to go searching....
> 
> What should I be doing with all the fat I'm trimming...saving or throwing away? Skin too. Also, when can I stop trimming?


Slowly back off from trimming...if his stools stay nice then continue to back off till you dont have to any more, if they get yucky trim a little more then slowly back off gain!:smile: I know with Hub and Jazzy my Mum has to take the slow approach with everything...which of course is the safe way to do it!:wink:

And as far as what to do, YES save all that you trim off!:thumb: You can use it down the road for when you either feed leaner meals and/or bonier ones!:thumb:


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## frogdog

Well today is a first for abnormal poop:frown:...completely dry like dust. I have read other post but mainly find concerns of runny poo. I am assuming and yes, we know what they say about assume...he needs more meat to bone ratio/up his meat intake. I have been feeding him chicken backs his first week and today was going to be his first chicken quarter. Please let me know if I need to do anything different? Much Thanks!


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## Scarlett_O'

frogdog said:


> Well today is a first for abnormal poop:frown:...completely dry like dust. I have read other post but mainly find concerns of runny poo. I am assuming and yes, we know what they say about assume...he needs more meat to bone ratio/up his meat intake. I have been feeding him chicken backs his first week and today was going to be his first chicken quarter. Please let me know if I need to do anything different? Much Thanks!


That sounds like a good plan!:thumb:

Your little boy is seeming to turn out more like my Brody then my Mum's Hub and Jazzy(in a YAY way!LOL)
So yes, dry crumbly poop means too high in bone:smile: so an easy enough fix....as long as you dont try to up the meat too fast!:wink:


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## kady05

I'm certainly no expert, but if you're trimming, you can cut back on that and the extra skin/fat should help. 

I never fed backs to Piper, started her right off on the quarters because I read that the backs can be super boney. When she was still a bit too firm, I added her fish oil (she gets 1200mg. daily) back into her diet (I had stopped giving all supplements when I first started), and that seemed to help as well.


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## frogdog

I have done the same with cutting out omega supplements to start and have trimmed skin and fat. I will feed him a chicken quarter tonight and slowly add back skin and fat. We'll see how that does.


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## schtuffy

frogdog said:


> Well today is a first for abnormal poop:frown:...completely dry like dust. I have read other post but mainly find concerns of runny poo. I am assuming and yes, we know what they say about assume...he needs more meat to bone ratio/up his meat intake. I have been feeding him chicken backs his first week and today was going to be his first chicken quarter. Please let me know if I need to do anything different? Much Thanks!


Louis transitioned the same exact way. No digestive issues, and within days he was already at the crumbly poop scenario. Don't worry, crumbly poop is way better than the alternative! Like others have said, I would leave more fat on, or throw in one of this slivers you set aside earlier (I kept my fat trimmings at the beginning, but I didn't have to trim for long). If that still doesn't help, you can try feeding one boneless meal sandwiched between two boney meals. All dogs react differently, but it sounds like Yogi won't have too much of a problem :smile:


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## frogdog

Oh..yes...for me and I'm sure for him...would rather have dry any day, lol. I have been trimming all skin and most fat so will add back...slowly. I didn't end up keeping any...no biggie though.


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## magicre

have you been stripping the backs of skin and fat?

if so, time to add it back and then move on to chicken quarters....

were you planning on giving the entire quarter?

because once you start to increase to 9.2 ounces a day, i think quarters are heavier than that, if not mistaken.....


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## frogdog

Yes, all skin and most fat

Starting chicken quarters this evening

I plan on weighing each quarter and adjusting. The one today is small and with all skin and fat weighs .10 ounces. I have eased him close to his required amount the last two days. (was feeding 6.5 and now feeding 9...2% for him is 9.8) 

Actually, he's lost weight and prob needed to lose a pound or two so may adjust amount.


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## frogdog

Yogi and myself are leaving around the 25th to go spend the month of October in the mountains at my mother's place. So, I need to get prepared for the steps of raw during that time. I was going to add beef as his third protein if that's suitable and need to know what cuts are best. One of the stores has beef angus on sale with additional $1.50 off a pack. I was thinking...mybe not correctly...beef stew, short ribs, a couple small steaks...any advise or suggestions appreciated.


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## schtuffy

Actually stew cubes and short ribs are great. The thing with beef ribs in my experience is that_ sometimes_ it can cause runny poo because they can be quite fatty. Louis has a more sensitive stomach though, so in the beginning I had to take off most of the fat (he could eat other beef cuts no problem). Yogi might not have the same problem, but just a heads up :smile: Other than that, ribs are one of the best things for cleaning teeth and gnawing. 

Steaks tend to be expensive, so I like to buy the big 4-5 lb beef chucks and hack it up when I get home. Around here they're still $5/lb or more though :frown: Sometimes I find that stew cubes are too small, I prefer to give bigger cuts so he can get a nice jaw work out.


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## frogdog

schtuffy said:


> Actually stew cubes and short ribs are great. The thing with beef ribs in my experience is that_ sometimes_ it can cause runny poo because they can be quite fatty. Louis has a more sensitive stomach though, so in the beginning I had to take off most of the fat (he could eat other beef cuts no problem). Yogi might not have the same problem, but just a heads up :smile: Other than that, ribs are one of the best things for cleaning teeth and gnawing.
> 
> Steaks tend to be expensive, so I like to buy the big 4-5 lb beef chucks and hack it up when I get home. Around here they're still $5/lb or more though :frown: Sometimes I find that stew cubes are too small, I prefer to give bigger cuts so he can get a nice jaw work out.


I can get beef stew and rather large cuts right now on sale. I did notice the short ribs were on the fatty side...thank you for the tip...last thing I want is runny poop. Looks like I'm going to be doing some shopping.

Umm, maybe the label stated beef chunks but thought it was beef stew. They had some large steaks on sale that I didn't think were too bad. I guess, one of the important factors when feeding beef is no bone except for short ribs...correct?


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## schtuffy

frogdog said:


> Umm, maybe the label stated beef chunks but thought it was beef stew. They had some large steaks on sale that I didn't think were too bad. I guess, one of the important factors when feeding beef is no bone except for short ribs...correct?


Beef chucks (not chunks) and stew cubes are different :smile: The chuck comes packaged as a giant wad of meat...like the size of a canteloupe. I think sometimes it's referred to as a chuck roast? Not entirely sure...never bought it to eat myself, only for the dog! Usually they are on the lean side, so I pick the fattiest one I see.

Louis actually doesn't eat the bone part of the beef rib, he just strips the meat off, which might be why his poops are runny. Bigger dogs can eat the whole thing.


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## frogdog

LOL, can you tell I'm a complete moron :doh: when it comes to buying meat especially beef...makes a big difference when you don't eat it yourself. I saw those big mounds of meat...now I know what you're talking about. Okay, know it was the beef stew on sale. I didn't look at the prices of the beef chucks...will have to check them out.


I wonder if the short rib is good for our dogs just to gnaw on but not eat???


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## magicre

what was your second protein?


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## frogdog

I'm starting Turkey this coming Monday.

I'm getting prepped for a month trip to the mountains. Yogi will have his third protein introduced while I'm there if not before. I usually go to the Tennessee or North Carolina mountains but will be in North Georgia and not sure what will be available. So, I am taking a month's worth of feeding. Also, some sales are going on right now and want to take advantage.


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## magicre

frogdog said:


> I'm starting Turkey this coming Monday.
> 
> I'm getting prepped for a month trip to the mountains. Yogi will have his third protein introduced while I'm there if not before. I usually go to the Tennessee or North Carolina mountains but will be in North Georgia and not sure what will be available. So, I am taking a month's worth of feeding. Also, some sales are going on right now and want to take advantage.


have you thought about maybe using pork bbq ribs as the third protein...? it's bony and a little less rich than beef, which could then wait until you get back....you'd have three proteins to feed....

and north georgia has lots. 

plus, it's beautiful. i have a friend who lives in ringgold.....great sunsets.


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## frogdog

I've thought about pork but need to do a raw test on Yogi. He is highly allergic but has only had cooked pork. 

I have been informed there are a lot of livestock farms that way so may find a source while I'm there. I will not be far from Ringgold...Blue Ridge/Ellijay. Oh how I love sunrises and sunsets...sure I'll be taking lots of pics.


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## magicre

take a little piece of pork and try him.

how did his allergy show itself when you fed him cooked pork? and did you feed him something else along with the cooked pork?


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## frogdog

Nope just cooked pork alone. I would have not fed it to him but boyfriend, Charlie, without thinking did. Unfortunately, there have been other mishaps with pork. We were aware of it because it showed as an allergen on his panel results. Well he had a full blown reaction just like to any of his other allergens but a lot worse. He has hives/bumps like breakouts all over his body and starts losing his hair in the affected areas. We use to run him to the vet everytime but now we have a system and maintain ourselves.


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## frogdog

Well, pork didn't work out so well. :frown:

I picked up a whole pack of pork ribs for $3 at Food Lion and was hoping feeding raw would be ok. Not so lucky, two hours after, we have a full blown breakout! :Cry: I gave him a so called test bite...kinda more than just a bite. I was going to freeze for later since we are only finishing our second week but looks like it's going to the people.


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## magicre

frogdog said:


> Well, pork didn't work out so well. :frown:
> 
> I picked up a whole pack of pork ribs for $3 at Food Lion and was hoping feeding raw would be ok. Not so lucky, two hours after, we have a full blown breakout! :Cry: I gave him a so called test bite...kinda more than just a bite. I was going to freeze for later since we are only finishing our second week but looks like it's going to the people.


at least, now you know and you only gave him a little bit.....that was smart.

so you'll go on to beef and give little bits at a time and build up to a meal....because beef is rich.....i would also hold off on beef heart...and i guess if he can't eat ribs, he won't be able to eat pork heart either....

there are plenty of other proteins and red meats that he can eat....like lamb and goat and emu and ostrich and kangaroo and llama and rabbit....venison.....elk.....plus, fishies...


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## Scarlett_O'

Ah...poor baby!!:frown: Here this is for Yogi :hug: :kiss:

Anyways...like Re said, there are LOTS of red meats....and hey...most of them are still going to end up being less then what you where spending on processed "raw"!:thumb:


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## schtuffy

Poor Yogi, I hope he's not feeling too miserable!

Don't stress too much about it, I actually don't feed pork...not because Louis can't handle it...I just always felt iffy about pork even though it's perfectly safe. It's mostly out of personal preference, but he gets enough of other stuff.


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## BoxerPaws

So sorry to hear Yogi's pork allergy transfers to raw, too! That really stinks! Poor boy; I hope he clears up quickly. At least he's got tons of other options for yummy future meals!


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## frogdog

magicre said:


> at least, now you know and you only gave him a little bit.....that was smart.
> 
> so you'll go on to beef and give little bits at a time and build up to a meal....because beef is rich.....i would also hold off on beef heart...and i guess if he can't eat ribs, he won't be able to eat pork heart either....
> 
> there are plenty of other proteins and red meats that he can eat....like lamb and goat and emu and ostrich and kangaroo and llama and rabbit....venison.....elk.....plus, fishies...


Wow, Re...I'll have to do some major research to find such meats around here...lamb, goat and fish...no problem. I can't feed rabbit...just can't do it :smile:...call me a "wuss" if you will, lol.




Scarlett_O' said:


> Ah...poor baby!!:frown: Here this is for Yogi :hug: :kiss:
> 
> Anyways...like Re said, there are LOTS of red meats....and hey...most of them are still going to end up being less then what you where spending on processed "raw"!:thumb:


Thank You, Abi! He's better this morning...sleeping on my lap while I type but had to put him temporarily on meds. Def less and raw is rewarding!:bounce:



schtuffy said:


> Poor Yogi, I hope he's not feeling too miserable!
> 
> Don't stress too much about it, I actually don't feed pork...not because Louis can't handle it...I just always felt iffy about pork even though it's perfectly safe. It's mostly out of personal preference, but he gets enough of other stuff.


Thank You, Sophie! He's doing good and hope Louis is too after eating all those good Reeses. :wink: What was your third protein?



BoxerPaws said:


> So sorry to hear Yogi's pork allergy transfers to raw, too! That really stinks! Poor boy; I hope he clears up quickly. At least he's got tons of other options for yummy future meals!


Thank You! I hope feeding raw helps his allergy reactions clear more quickly. Yes, the boundless choices of raw...a great thing!!! 


As you can tell...figured out how to post responses all in one...well, have to admit never looked (how to) until now.


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## schtuffy

frogdog said:


> Thank You, Sophie! He's doing good and hope Louis is too after eating all those good Reeses. :wink: What was your third protein?


Well I didn't sleep well last night that's for sure....every time he shifted I sat up and was prepared for the worst. He seemed fine this morning though, so I gave him a turkey back. We'll see if there's an incident after I get off work...

I actually don't remember what my third protein was, because I started Louis out on raw while also still feeding kibble. He was handling chicken and beef fine along with the kibble. So when I switched to full PMR last November, he already had those under his belt. I think I tried fish per Natalie's suggestion, but he wouldn't eat raw fish. So my third protein was most likely canned salmon or duck wings? I used to feed rabbit but I gave up on that too...I found out that around here they're all sourced from China, plus it has a tendency to give Louis weird poop patterns (not to mention he's not a fan)!





> Thank You! I hope feeding raw helps his allergy reactions clear more quickly. Yes, the boundless choices of raw...a great thing!!!
> As you can tell...figured out how to post responses all in one...well, have to admit never looked (how to) until now.


Okay I never saw that button until you posted this, LOL


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## frogdog

schtuffy said:


> Well I didn't sleep well last night that's for sure....every time he shifted I sat up and was prepared for the worst. He seemed fine this morning though, so I gave him a turkey back. We'll see if there's an incident after I get off work...
> 
> I actually don't remember what my third protein was, because I started Louis out on raw while also still feeding kibble. He was handling chicken and beef fine along with the kibble. So when I switched to full PMR last November, he already had those under his belt. I think I tried fish per Natalie's suggestion, but he wouldn't eat raw fish. So my third protein was most likely canned salmon or duck wings? I used to feed rabbit but I gave up on that too...I found out that around here they're all sourced from China, plus it has a tendency to give Louis weird poop patterns (not to mention he's not a fan)!
> 
> Okay I never saw that button until you posted this, LOL



Glad to know things were ok thru the night minus disruptions in sleep.
Looks like beef will be our third protein and there is ample supply no doubt


I know, funny...me as well...just realized this morning, duh :biggrin:


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