# Friend needs help finding a kibble



## RedneckCowgirl (Oct 28, 2011)

I have a friend who is on a pretty tight budget and recently acquired a 1 1/2 year old lab mix. Looking for a decent mid grade kibble that is fairly low cost.


----------



## domika (Jul 15, 2012)

TOTW, Earthborn Holistic, Merrick, Fromm Gold or Classic Lines.


----------



## RedneckCowgirl (Oct 28, 2011)

domika said:


> TOTW, Earthborn Holistic, Merrick, Fromm Gold or Classic Lines.


Anything cheaper then TOTW?
I reccomended 4Health, but I wasn't sure if it was made by Diamond or not


----------



## newlndnfire (Aug 19, 2011)

TOTW is made by diamond, is it not? I wouldn't recommend feeding that personally. :/


----------



## RedneckCowgirl (Oct 28, 2011)

newlndnfire said:


> TOTW is made by diamond, is it not? I wouldn't recommend feeding that personally. :/


Yes it is


----------



## newlndnfire (Aug 19, 2011)

It's so disappointing because TOTW was a great food but I don't feel comfortable feeding it now.


----------



## RedneckCowgirl (Oct 28, 2011)

newlndnfire said:


> It's so disappointing because TOTW was a great food but I don't feel comfortable feeding it now.


It was in my rotation for quite a while as well, back when they only had three varieties


----------



## domika (Jul 15, 2012)

Do they have a Costco nearby? Never tried it and don't have a membership but I would try their Kirkland grain free line


----------



## SaharaNight Boxers (Jun 28, 2011)

Also made by Diamond. It's a shame.


----------



## Unosmom (May 3, 2009)

4Health is also diamond made

check into nutri-source, healthwise, from classics, hi tek naturals.


----------



## Kibblelady (Jul 13, 2012)

Not sure how much they are looking to spend but Verus? Eagle Pack? Pro Plan? These IMO are "mid grade" and less expensive costing around 40 dollars per 40lbs.


----------



## kevin bradley (Aug 9, 2009)

Fromm Classics


----------



## StellaLucyDesi (Oct 29, 2008)

If I was looking for a lower priced, decent kibble then I'd probably choose either Earthborn, Fromm Classics, Merrick Whole Earth Farms, Nutrisource or Healthwise. Those are just some that come to mind.


----------



## domika (Jul 15, 2012)

I didn't know diamond made Kirkland... I need to check what foods they make! Out of the loop here


----------



## kevin bradley (Aug 9, 2009)

4health, Taste of the Wild, Premium Edge, Kirkland, Chicken Soup...maybe Natural Balance(someone check me on this).

There may be more but those are the biggies.

Oh yeah, Canidae is produced in a Diamond plant but I believe the relationship is slightly different....its not necessarily a Diamond product. Wellness used a Diamond plant for some overflow production recently but I do not believe it to be normal operating procedure.


----------



## InkedMarie (Sep 9, 2011)

Add Annamaet to the earthborn, Fromm, nutrisource


----------



## LilasMom (Mar 10, 2012)

Kibblelady said:


> Not sure how much they are looking to spend but Verus? Eagle Pack? *Pro Plan*? These IMO are "mid grade" and less expensive costing around 40 dollars per 40lbs.


Have never heard of the others, but I consider the Pro PLan to be low quality. The menadione, unnamed protein sources, and the fact that it is mostly grains are things one shouldn't over look.


----------



## skadoosh (Jun 11, 2012)

PetSmart makes a brand named Authority. I would say it is mid-level quality...


----------



## Kibblelady (Jul 13, 2012)

LilasMom said:


> Have never heard of the others, but I consider the Pro PLan to be low quality. The menadione, unnamed protein sources, and the fact that it is mostly grains are things one shouldn't over look.



Midrange and inexpensive can define Pro Plan in terms of nutrition and money. There is no lower cost kibble that I feel many of you on this board would "like." So, I went with what I would recommend in that situation. If the person is feeding say Dog Chow, the Pro Plan is a huge step up. I didn't over look anything, I just see different things than you do.


----------



## Kibblelady (Jul 13, 2012)

I mean honestly there would have been one answer to this question a number of years ago, Diamond. Unfortunately that cannot be the answer anymore for many reasons


----------



## meggels (May 30, 2010)

kevin bradley said:


> 4health, Taste of the Wild, Premium Edge, Kirkland, Chicken Soup...maybe Natural Balance(someone check me on this).
> 
> There may be more but those are the biggies.
> 
> Oh yeah, Canidae is produced in a Diamond plant but I believe the relationship is slightly different....its not necessarily a Diamond product. Wellness used a Diamond plant for some overflow production recently but I do not believe it to be normal operating procedure.



Only a few of the NB formulas are made in a Diamond plant.


----------



## monster'sdad (Jul 29, 2012)

RedneckCowgirl said:


> I have a friend who is on a pretty tight budget and recently acquired a 1 1/2 year old lab mix. Looking for a decent mid grade kibble that is fairly low cost.


Pro Pac Adult Chunk 25/16. The 44lb bag is less then $30 and it is a wonderful food. Eu Cert plant made right next to Earthborn. 

This food is easily one the best foods for a limited budget. No glutens, chelated minerals, no recalls, just good old fashioned dog food. I have used the performance formula before and the dogs liked it, the clean-up is easy and they looked great. Sportmix is another very good value food. Made by the same company that makes Pro Pac and Earthborn.

Another good one is Tuffy Gold. Ok stop laughing, this food is made by Nutrisource, and it is another great value.


----------



## LilasMom (Mar 10, 2012)

monster'sdad said:


> Pro Pac Adult Chunk 25/16. The 44lb bag is less then $30 and it is a wonderful food. Eu Cert plant made right next to Earthborn.
> 
> This food is easily one the best foods for a limited budget. No glutens, chelated minerals, no recalls, just good old fashioned dog food. I have used the performance formula before and the dogs liked it, the clean-up is easy and they looked great. Sportmix is another very good value food. Made by the same company that makes Pro Pac and Earthborn.
> 
> Another good one is Tuffy Gold. Ok stop laughing, this food is made by Nutrisource, and it is another great value.


The pro pac looks good, but not the tuffy gold. It has corn and the chemical menadione.


----------



## meggels (May 30, 2010)

LilasMom said:


> The pro pac looks good, but not the tuffy gold. It has corn and the chemical menadione.


Pro PAC has corn also


----------



## LilasMom (Mar 10, 2012)

Uh oh I must have missed that when reading the list! And it is like the second ingredient, huge derp on my part, sorry! :redface:

I would avoid anything with corn.


----------



## Kibblelady (Jul 13, 2012)

I don't mind corn at all, actually many a show fancier has purposely fed a diet with corn to put coat on their dog, it always works, it did for me when I was showing Emma. I bit of Blackwood 2000 and yep, glorious coat. None of my dogs have ever, ever, had a problem with corn. They have had problems with sorghum, wheat, barley and rye. My GSDs had an awful reaction to sorghum (I don't have anything against the grain it just didn't work for my dogs) They also do terrible on anything with wheat in it..again I don't dislike it, I just avoid it. I also had a gluten intolerant Sheltie who could not have wheat, rye or barley and I would look for corn or rice grains for him... he glowed after we figured this out. Grains are grains...this whole "corn is horrible" thing should have died a long time ago with the "beet pulp is an artificial stool hardener" bit. The "beet pulp is sugar" bit I find humorous....sorry. These things are just not accurate.

I will not even start with the menadione thing, that deserves it's own thread...


----------



## LilasMom (Mar 10, 2012)

There are better ways to make a dog healthier than feeding it a low quality genetically modified vegetable. I wouldn't eat it so why should my dog? Grains are just grains, but I don't believe ANY grains should be in a dogs diet. The closer one can get to a 100% meat kibble or raw diet, the better. 

What do you mean about the menadione? I can't tell if you are for it or against it.


----------



## Kibblelady (Jul 13, 2012)

LilasMom said:


> There are better ways to make a dog healthier than feeding it a low quality genetically modified vegetable. I wouldn't eat it so why should my dog? Grains are just grains, but I don't believe ANY grains should be in a dogs diet. The closer one can get to a 100% meat kibble or raw diet, the better.
> 
> What do you mean about the menadione? I can't tell if you are for it or against it.


How can you possibly tell the quality of a corn ingredient from the bag? .

Menadione? I am neither for nor against, it doesn't bother me at all.


----------



## LilasMom (Mar 10, 2012)

Kibblelady said:


> How can you possibly tell the quality of a corn ingredient from the bag? .
> 
> Menadione? I am neither for nor against, it doesn't bother me at all.


Most of the corn in the US is genetically modified, and if a brand is using corn that means it is already in the mid to low quality range of food. I doubt a company that uses corn in their food is going to spend the extra money to make sure the corn is organic and non-GMO. 

Well menadione bothers me due to the fact it is an unnatural chemical that has been linked to liver issues. I am definitely against that.


----------



## RedneckCowgirl (Oct 28, 2011)

Kibblelady said:


> How can you possibly tell the quality of a corn ingredient from the bag? .


Any grain puts excessive strain on the pancreas, as dogs do not produce the enzymes in their saliva that we do to produce grains, thus their pancreas has to.


----------



## SaharaNight Boxers (Jun 28, 2011)

Kibblelady said:


> I don't mind corn at all, actually many a show fancier has purposely fed a diet with corn to put coat on their dog, it always works, it did for me when I was showing Emma.


And then they report having a greasy cost problem and go to salmon, flaxseed, or coconut oil. Or some other. Long hair can hide those kind of things, short hair does not.


----------



## DaViking (Sep 27, 2011)

LilasMom said:


> and if a brand is using corn that means it is already in the mid to low quality range of food.


Absolutely no basis for that statement. This mindless internet badgering of corn needs to stop. There is absolutely no problems with corn itself. Excessive use of corn and any other source of carbohydrate is a problem. Ppl should really start to qualify why corn is bad.


----------



## RedneckCowgirl (Oct 28, 2011)

DaViking said:


> Absolutely no basis for that statement. This mindless internet badgering of corn needs to stop. There is absolutely no problems with corn itself. Excessive use of corn and any other source of carbohydrate is a problem. Ppl should really start to qualify why corn is bad.


Why is corn bad? Maybe because dogs are carnivores, and we as omnivore can't even digest it well. Plus the fact that it is one of the most common food allergens in dogs is more than enough for me.


----------



## DaViking (Sep 27, 2011)

RedneckCowgirl said:


> Any grain puts excessive strain on the pancreas, as dogs do not produce the enzymes in their saliva that we do to produce grains, thus their pancreas has to.


Strain? Excessive strain? Qualify it. What's excessive strain? When does this excessive strain kick in? What are the short and long time health effects of this strain? How big of a strain is it? At what level of carbohydrates in a formula does this excessive strain start? Does some sources of carbohydrates strain more than others?


----------



## DaViking (Sep 27, 2011)

RedneckCowgirl said:


> Why is corn bad? Maybe because dogs are carnivores, and we as omnivore can't even digest it well. Plus the fact that it is one of the most common food allergens in dogs is more than enough for me.


Did you read anything here in the last month or so? It's one of the dumbest most ignorant myths still kickin' around some dog circles on the internet


----------



## RedneckCowgirl (Oct 28, 2011)

DaViking said:


> Strain? Excessive strain? Qualify it. What's excessive strain? When does this excessive strain kick in? What are the short and long time health effects of this strain? How big of a strain is it? At what level of carbohydrates in a formula does this excessive strain start? Does some sources of carbohydrates strain more than others?



So, what brands do you sell in your store? I'd like to know which contributes to your paycheck, so I can tell where you're advice is really coming from


----------



## LilasMom (Mar 10, 2012)

Which high quality food brand has corn in it?


----------



## DaViking (Sep 27, 2011)

RedneckCowgirl said:


> So, what brands do you sell in your store? I'd like to know which contributes to your paycheck, so I can tell where you're advice is really coming from


What are you talking about? I don't sell dog food or anything remotely pet related. I help owners with challenging dogs now and then and I have a preference for anything working dog related. Nice trying to get out of qualifying what you said though.


----------



## RedneckCowgirl (Oct 28, 2011)

DaViking said:


> What are you talking about? I don't sell dog food or anything remotely pet related. I help owners with challenging dogs now and then and I have a preference for anything working dog related. Nice trying to get out of qualifying what you said though.


That's not what I've heard from others....

And I don't have anything to prove to you. All you do is argue with everything said. Corn isn't what dogs are meant to eat. Period, end of story. You can argue all you want but take one look at how the dogs digestive system works and you will see what I mean

ETA: I'm sure most of the kibble feeders will agree with me, I'm not just saying that cause I feed raw!


----------



## DaViking (Sep 27, 2011)

LilasMom said:


> Which high quality food brand has corn in it?


From the top of my head. Brands that make use of various corn products; Annamaet, Nutram, Genesis, RedPaw, ProSeries, Inukshuk, Pro Pac, Royal Canin. I am sure I left out many.


----------



## RedneckCowgirl (Oct 28, 2011)

And the only decent one listed is Annamaet. I really like their grain free line. If I could get it around here I would definitely add it to my rotation


----------



## SaharaNight Boxers (Jun 28, 2011)

DaViking said:


> There is absolutely no problems with corn itself.


You're right there. The problems start when you add it to dog food.


----------



## DaViking (Sep 27, 2011)

RedneckCowgirl said:


> That's not what I've heard from others....


You and "others" must be extremely bored lately. Who are these "others" who tell you I sell dog food and even own a store? Holy ...., I own a store :lol:
Prove it or take it back and stop these lies. Actually I wish I owned a pet store, would get me away from looking at this stupid screen all day. Dear, I do exactly the same as the owners of this site 



RedneckCowgirl said:


> And I don't have anything to prove to you. All you do is argue with everything said. Corn isn't what dogs are meant to eat. Period, end of story. You can argue all you want but take one look at how the dogs digestive system works and you will see what I mean


You are not proving it to me, you would be backing up what you say to everyone reading. You would be bringing some value to the thread if you did that. If you'r going to make claims about "excessive strain" then you should be able to justify those claims don't you think? Not avoid everything with some dumb claims about me. See, I still don't understand why barley, lentils, buckwheat, rice, rosemary, spirulina, yucca, alfalfa, green lipped mussels or a slew of other ingredients going into dry or wet foods are more appropriate or "are meant to eat"? It's a mystery to me, unless you in fact are here to argue that all dry and wet processed dog food is inappropriate and not what they are "meant to eat" That kind'a changes everything doesn't it? Doesn't leave much room for a meaningful discussions.



RedneckCowgirl said:


> ETA: I'm sure most of the kibble feeders will agree with me, I'm not just saying that cause I feed raw!


Ask any PHD nutritionist who formulates all these various formulas and you'd be amazed over how many of them who would include corn products if they could but are voted down by marketing and production staff. Most knowledgeable ppl posting in this section don't have any particular issues with corn. No one says it's the best thing since sliced bread but these ignorant myths about corn that refuses to die because some choose to parrot what they read somewhere instead of educating themselves needs to be countered.

Now, "others" show yourself and prove I sell dog food for a living.


----------



## RedneckCowgirl (Oct 28, 2011)

Honestly, you don't help in any thread you post in. You and a couple others only want to argue, no matter what its about. Stop it. If you don't have anything productive to add then don't add anything! I'm done arguing, its obviously falling on deaf ears


----------



## DaViking (Sep 27, 2011)

RedneckCowgirl said:


> Honestly, you don't help in any thread you post in. You and a couple others only want to argue, no matter what its about. Stop it. If you don't have anything productive to add then don't add anything! I'm done arguing, its obviously falling on deaf ears


Hey, you never argued, discussed or justified anything you said in the first place. I asked you to justify or elaborate on what you said, you choose not to and instead you wandered into some moronic claims about me. Talk about adding anything...

Now, do you know for a fact that I own a store and sell dog food? If not, please take back what you said.


----------



## RedneckCowgirl (Oct 28, 2011)

DaViking said:


> Hey, you never argued, discussed or justified anything you said in the first place. I asked you to justify or elaborate on what you said, you choose not to and instead you wandered into some moronic claims about me. Talk about adding anything...
> 
> Now, do you know for a fact that I own a store and sell dog food? If not, please take back what you said.


I don't have to do anything. This thread is for a friend, not a debate. I won't argue with you any more, you will just find some other bogus study that "proves" your point. If anecdotal results aren't enough for you, then I'm sorry, but we have nothing left to discuss

ETA: And the discussion wasn't that you owned a store, it was that you were in some way affiliated with a kibble company. And you can bet your bottom dollar I believe it!


----------



## DaViking (Sep 27, 2011)

RedneckCowgirl said:


> I don't have to do anything. This thread is for a friend, not a debate. I won't argue with you any more, you will just find some other bogus study that "proves" your point. If anecdotal results aren't enough for you, then I'm sorry, but we have nothing left to discuss
> 
> ETA: And the discussion wasn't that you owned a store, it was that you were in some way affiliated with a kibble company. And you can bet your bottom dollar I believe it!





RedneckCowgirl said:


> So, what brands do you sell in your store?


Now I am affiliated with a "kibble" company? Which one? You are using dfc to spread lies and 100% untrue rumors. Come on.
Who's discussing? Can I be in on the discussion?


----------

