# Piper won't eat, picky, picky, picky!



## andreah1 (Mar 8, 2010)

Ok, I've read thru tons of posts here and because I'm sick of doing that, I'm posting my own! My dog Piper is part pit, part lab. She's about 42 pounds, beautiful black shiny coat (I'm new but will post a pic later) and very active. She LOVES to run. Wish I did, ha ha. In the summer months she has allergies which we figure are probably to grasses, etc. I have been thru at least 5 different foods trying to find something she'll eat but she's so picky. She'll GOBBLE snacks and treats that have junk in them but I try to buy her good food and she snubs it. We've finally gotten to the point where we give her no treats and just leave the food in the bowl til she eats it. She does finally eat that way. She is not overweight. My latest purchase was Blue Buffalo Lamb/rice...nope, she doesn't like it. And I've noticed it gives her the gurgles and she's gassy on it. Before that I gave her TOTW and she was "ok" with it but again wouldn't eat til she got super hungry...the one I fed her was the salmon, she tends to not have stomach upset when I feed the fish based foods. I've also tried pro plan (I know, not as good) and a couple really cheap brands which she chowed down but her coat suffered. I really want to stay around 1.00 a pound for food (dry only) and would welcome any suggestions. 
Thanks!
Andrea


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5 (Feb 11, 2010)

andreah1 said:


> Ok, I've read thru tons of posts here and because I'm sick of doing that, I'm posting my own! My dog Piper is part pit, part lab. She's about 42 pounds, beautiful black shiny coat (I'm new but will post a pic later) and very active. She LOVES to run. Wish I did, ha ha. In the summer months she has allergies which we figure are probably to grasses, etc. I have been thru at least 5 different foods trying to find something she'll eat but she's so picky. She'll GOBBLE snacks and treats that have junk in them but I try to buy her good food and she snubs it. We've finally gotten to the point where we give her no treats and just leave the food in the bowl til she eats it. She does finally eat that way. She is not overweight. My latest purchase was Blue Buffalo Lamb/rice...nope, she doesn't like it. And I've noticed it gives her the gurgles and she's gassy on it. Before that I gave her TOTW and she was "ok" with it but again wouldn't eat til she got super hungry...the one I fed her was the salmon, she tends to not have stomach upset when I feed the fish based foods. I've also tried pro plan (I know, not as good) and a couple really cheap brands which she chowed down but her coat suffered. I really want to stay around 1.00 a pound for food (dry only) and would welcome any suggestions.
> Thanks!
> Andrea


canidae grain free salmon formulas,wellness ocean core,orijen six fresh fish, innova evo herrings.

with a picky eater you cant make price stipulations.


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

Picky eaters are created, not born. You are the human, and you decide when and what she eats. DOGS WILL NOT STARVE THEMSELVES IN THE PRESENCE OF FOOD. When she is hungry enough, she'll eat whatever you give her. 

Pick a quality food, whichever one you'd like. Have select feeding times, put the food down, leave it down for no more than 20 minutes, and then pick it back up. If she ate, great! If not, then it was by her choice. You are not starving her, she is choosing not to eat. 

Give NO treats or snacks at all during the day. Put down the same food at the next feeding, and do the same thing. 

Don't coddle or beg the dog to eat. Just put the food own, and leave her be. It takes a few days for some dogs. My boxer took about four days to finally realize that it was what I give her, or nothing at all.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Welcome!

Picky eaters 101:

Picky eaters are created. If you allow your dog to pick and choose what to eat, they win and you lose. You must choose a good food that works well for your dog (health wise) and stick to it. You are the parent and the one in control of your dog's health, not your dog because they do not know what is best. You must regain pack leadership and respect from your dog by being in control.

1. Pick a good, healthy food.

2. Stick to it no matter how "picky" your dog seems. Only change foods if you notice a health issue.

3. Get on scheduled feeding times.

4. Don't at any time coax your dog to eat the food, whether that be vocal reinforcement or adding anything to it to make it more inticing to eat. Just simply set the food down and go about your business. 

5. Offer a meal of the food you choose and give your dog no more than 30 minutes to eat it. If she doesn't touch it, pick it up to
feed later. 

6. Offer the food again at the next scheduled feeding. Same as before give no more than 30 minutes. If not touched, pick it up and save for the next feeding.

7. Give NO snacks or treats between feeding times (until you succeed at this picky eater issue).

8. Keep offering the same food each meal time until it is eaten. Keep up this until it's not an issue and your dog will eat what you choose.

Things to remember:

1. No healthy dog will intentionally starve itself. Each time your doesn't eat what you put down, they are choosing not to eat...you are not starving your dog. You are providing them what you think is the best nutrition there is and that is what
you have to keep in mind.

2. Picky eaters are manipulative. Every time you cater to their wants, they win and are in control. Whether you give them added attention or additions, they are getting what they want. Nothing in life for them should be free and that definitely applies to your respect.

3. Patience is key in this situation. Some dogs are so set in their ways that it will take days for them to cave in and submit to your authority. I have known some dogs that will go five days until this happens...but it is worth the wait. If you get your dog to respect you in this situation it will respect you in more ways than you can imagine. Keep the "tough love" approach and you will be rewarded!


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## mstngchic2012 (Jan 30, 2010)

corgipaws and danemama gave the best tips.


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## andreah1 (Mar 8, 2010)

Sorry, the foods suggested are WAY out of our price range, I love my dog to pieces (obviously I'm the one that causes the pickiness!) but I can't see her eating better than us. Does anyone have experience with the Blue Buffalo fish? I really don't want to spend that much, the only reason I bought this bag is out of desperation. Is there a good fish dogfood that is in the price range of around a 1.00 a pound (a little more than that is fine). What about the Merrick Campfire Trout? I'm at a loss. 
Now tonight I get home, we took a walk, she came back and ate her breakfast and at the normal time I put out her dinner and she gobbled it down. I was shocked. I think I'm going to try the 30 minute time period and see if that works as well. Thanks for the suggestions, hope you can help me find a food I can stick with! Please! : )


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

andreah1 said:


> Sorry, the foods suggested are WAY out of our price range, I love my dog to pieces (obviously I'm the one that causes the pickiness!) but I can't see her eating better than us. Does anyone have experience with the Blue Buffalo fish? I really don't want to spend that much, the only reason I bought this bag is out of desperation. Is there a good fish dogfood that is in the price range of around a 1.00 a pound (a little more than that is fine). What about the Merrick Campfire Trout? I'm at a loss.
> Now tonight I get home, we took a walk, she came back and ate her breakfast and at the normal time I put out her dinner and she gobbled it down. I was shocked. I think I'm going to try the 30 minute time period and see if that works as well. Thanks for the suggestions, hope you can help me find a food I can stick with! Please! : )


If you have a costco membership, their Kirkland brand is great for the money. It's about $22 for 40 lbs. Canidae is around $50 for 44lbs so that's pretty affordable as well, and it's a decent food. 
Merrick is great as well!


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## andreah1 (Mar 8, 2010)

THanks. I wish we had a costco nearby, I live in the boonies, ha ha! I'll look at the canidae and merrick then and see what I can accomplish with my little pain in the rear!


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## mstngchic2012 (Jan 30, 2010)

andreah, where are you from? I live in the boonies to so I might be able to help you out as far as finding decent foods.


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## andreah1 (Mar 8, 2010)

I'm in central NY, the nearest "city" if you can call it that is Utica. I've been looking online at petfooddirect.com. Ugh, why is the good stuff so expensive!!! I'm thinking I want to go grain free and of course they cost the most!


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5 (Feb 11, 2010)

canidae grain free is 42.79 with tax for 30 pounds by me. and it has higher meat contents than any other food ive seen. it also only has 34 percent protin so its higher trhan most foods but not too rich like evo is
since you cant feed kirkland id sqay this is the best for you. buy 12 bags get 1 free.


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## mstngchic2012 (Jan 30, 2010)

Do you have a Tractor Supply Company near you? If so, they have 4Health, Blue Buffalo, Diamond Naturals, Nutro Natural Choice, Nutro Ultra, and Taste of the Wild which are all decent foods for the price. And you can even print off a $5 off coupon to help with the cost.


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## Unosmom (May 3, 2009)

I would stay away from any Nutro products, they're constantly being recalled.


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## andreah1 (Mar 8, 2010)

Yes, we have a tractor supply, I'll look there, from reading on here it seems not too many people are fond of Diamond though?


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## mstngchic2012 (Jan 30, 2010)

I'm feeding Diamond Naturals Extreme Athlete. I like the Diamond line and the only issue we are having right now is allergy issues... I'm thinking it's a chicken allergies.


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## andreah1 (Mar 8, 2010)

Ugh, wish all dogs ate the same, I can't make up my mind on what I should do! Now this morning she chowed down her food (she wasn't chomping at the bit but she ate it) so I haven't even been able to try the tactics suggested here. I'm really thinking I want to go to no grain food as the hubby noticed last night that she's already starting to lose her chest and belly hair. She usually only loses that when she's outside alot in the summer, so we assume it's grass or something enviromental, wondering if the grain in the Blue Buff. is now making her shed early? If I do go grain free, is the Canidae good? The fish one is so expensive and I'm afraid to give her the chicken one. Is there a better priced fish based, grain free dog food out there? She didn't seem to care too much for the TOTW.


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## mstngchic2012 (Jan 30, 2010)

Don't let her decide what to eat unless of course it is an allergy. She should eat what you put in front of her. If she doesn't eat it right away tough luck put the bowl away and offer it to her again at her next meal time. If she doesn't eat right away again do the same thing. Oh, and don't give any treats in between meal times. Trust me a dog will not starve itself. She'll learn to eat what you give her.


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## andreah1 (Mar 8, 2010)

Thanks for the advice, if she doesn't eat within 30 minutes tonight I'm picking up the bowl. I really am thinking that the grains are causing allergies, when we fed the TOTW she had no major hair loss unless it was summer and she was outside. That's why I thought it was the fish that seems to be best for her. I hate making decisions, ha ha. 
Oh well, I'll find something...want to check and see if Diamond makes a grain free with fish...


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## harrkim120 (Feb 2, 2010)

I really don't think it would be the chicken causing an allergy. It's most likely the grain or something environmental. From my understanding, meat allergies are practically unheard of. 

I would try a grain-free chicken based formula since they're cheaper than fish and see how it goes. It's worth a shot since you've never tried a chicken based food without the grain.


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## mstngchic2012 (Jan 30, 2010)

No, Diamond doesn't have a fish formula. I would try the TOTW Pacific Stream formula if you can.


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## mstngchic2012 (Jan 30, 2010)

harrkim120 said:


> I really don't think it would be the chicken causing an allergy. It's most likely the grain or something environmental. From my understanding, meat allergies are practically unheard of.
> 
> I would try a grain-free chicken based formula since they're cheaper than fish and see how it goes. It's worth a shot since you've never tried a chicken based food without the grain.


Actually there are a lot of dogs who have chicken allergies. I have a few friends that have dogs with chicken allergies.


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## andreah1 (Mar 8, 2010)

Thanks guys, I appreciate your help. Sorry to be so wishy washy, I want to do the right thing AND make her happy...she's my baby, ha ha! 
Do you think the fish is making her coat shiny or is it just "good food" that would do that? I want to be sure she stays in the nice shape she's in regarding that....


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## harrkim120 (Feb 2, 2010)

mstngchic2012 said:


> Actually there are a lot of dogs who have chicken allergies. I have a few friends that have dogs with chicken allergies.


Are they eating kibble or just chicken? If it's kibble, you can't really tell...there's too much other stuff in there. It could even be something as unthought of as a flaxseed allergy. Khan here had that one.


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## andreah1 (Mar 8, 2010)

She's eating kibble....


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## rannmiller (Jun 27, 2008)

It could be a combo of a lack of grains or the fish formulas making her coat shiny, only way to really find out is to feed her a grain-inclusive fish diet and see how she does on it, or feed her a grain-free non-fish diet and see how she does on it. I think the Canidae grain-free or TOTW are going to be the best options as far as fish formulas, grain-free, and price are concerned. You could either try sticking it out with this bag of food and practice your techniques for breaking a picky eater or if you still have your receipt you could take the bag back and try the fish formula or something else entirely. 

It's funny cuz I have a black, 45lbs, lab/pit mix and she is the biggest chow hound on the planet! Funny how dogs can vary so much.


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## andreah1 (Mar 8, 2010)

We've managed to get thru half this bag so we're commited til it's gone, hee hee. I think I may go back to TOTW, the price is right and I used to mix the fish with the venison and she seemed ok with it. No chow hog though. I'm still researching alittle online before I make a decision though.
Rannmiller, Piper looks almost EXACTLY like your dog! I hope to post a picture of her for my avatar tonight. I did post one on my profile. They could be related! : )


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## rannmiller (Jun 27, 2008)

I think your TOTW mixture is going to be your best bet and then just don't let her be picky anymore. I can't wait to see pictures of Piper, I love that name! My Penny also loves to run, she got me into running actually. Such great dogs.


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## andreah1 (Mar 8, 2010)

I was just looking at your pics, except for the white feet and neck they could be twins. Piper is all black except for her chest and a teeny bit on her chin. She's a major runner and jumper. She's really smart (we've had people tell us so I'm not bragging, ha ha), we've taught her alot of tricks. The thought of losing her makes me sick, honestly I think I could handle my husband dying easier than I could her! Hence my food picking problem! 
I never in my life thought I would love to be kissed by a dog but I just love her giving me a lick hello (don't worry, I keep my mouth closed, lol). She's a complete joy, that's why I want to feed her the best we can afford. We found her on craigslist, had been "sort of" looking for a dog and she had been to three different places. The lady we got her from gave her to us for nothing and to this day I don't know why, she's an awesome dog, never causes problems.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

mstngchic2012 said:


> Actually there are a lot of dogs who have chicken allergies. I have a few friends that have dogs with chicken allergies.


If they were eating kibble, the last thing I would point fingers on for an allergen would be the animal protein source. Most likely something else in the food. There is a possibility that the chicken protein is combining with some other ingredient causing the allergy. With kibble and allergens...there are close to an infinite source of culprits.


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## kevin bradley (Aug 9, 2009)

Andrea,

For the price parameter you listed, you are pretty much backed into something made in a Diamond facility(Canidae, Chicken Soup, Prem Edge, Naturals, 4Health, etc..)

Don't completely discredit the Diamond stuff. 

We DEBATE Diamond made products. Mainly due to some quality control stuff a couple years ago. On paper, they offer nice foods at a VERY nice price.

Iams, Pedigree, Eukanuba, Purina...we just laugh at. 

Big Difference.


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## mstngchic2012 (Jan 30, 2010)

danemama08 said:


> If they were eating kibble, the last thing I would point fingers on for an allergen would be the animal protein source. Most likely something else in the food. There is a possibility that the chicken protein is combining with some other ingredient causing the allergy. With kibble and allergens...there are close to an infinite source of culprits.


My friends' dogs all eat kibble. The reason they know that it is a chicken allergy is that they switched from a chicken based formula to a lamb, venison, or even fish formula and the allergy symptoms went away. I'm not saying that this is true for all dogs but I do know dogs that have chicken allergies.


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

mstngchic2012 said:


> My friends' dogs all eat kibble. The reason they know that it is a chicken allergy is that they switched from a chicken based formula to a lamb, venison, or even fish formula and the allergy symptoms went away. I'm not saying that this is true for all dogs but I do know dogs that have chicken allergies.


Do you know what foods they switched to?
99% of "other" formulas, actually still contain more chicken than any other animal protien. So unless it was some special "chicken free" formula, chances are after switching to a fish, venison, or lamb formula, they were still feeding quite a bit of chicken...


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## mstngchic2012 (Jan 30, 2010)

I believe most of them feed either DVP, Kirkland, or TOTW.


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

mstngchic2012 said:


> I believe most of them feed either DVP, Kirkland, or TOTW.


"most of them"? How many people with how many dogs do you know that have "chicken allergies" lol.


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## mstngchic2012 (Jan 30, 2010)

Ten people have dogs that have chicken allergies that I know of. There could be more out there.


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## andreah1 (Mar 8, 2010)

I'm now going back and forth with canidae grain free of the TOTW, hard to make up my mind! I'm going to pet supplies plus tomorrow and may get her the canidae but just a 5 pound bag to see how it works out. I already know her reaction to the TOTW (not great but will eat it). I came home tonight and the hubby said she ate her dinner! I can't believe this, two days in a row, it's a miracle! Now I'm gonna switch her again! But I really want to go to grain free because I'm sure it's causing some of the hair loss problems she gets.


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

mstngchic2012 said:


> Ten people have dogs that have chicken allergies that I know of. There could be more out there.


 highly, HIGHLY unlikely. I'd put money on it that at least nine of these are misdiagnosed. Far too many variables in kibble to point the finger at chicken and call it confirmed.


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## kevin bradley (Aug 9, 2009)

Andrea, 

I would also check out some of the less expensive Natura products like Healthwise or California Natural(I'd get the Puppy formula as it has higher protein content)....

But if you are going grain free, almost no brands are going to touch Canidae or Taste of the Wild from a cost standpoint. 

Good luck with whatever you decide. Regardless, all the foods you are considering are 1000% better than what most feed. I'd just watch your Dog closely while feeding Canidae. 2 of my 3 had real issues with it. Doesn't necessarily mean its a bad food, but I do feel many dogs just can't handle it.


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## andreah1 (Mar 8, 2010)

I'm gonna buy a small bag of canidae today, she still has quite alot of Blue Buffalo to get thru first but when I get down to about a quarter of the container left I'll start mixing in the canidae, if she seems to tolerate it fine, if not then I'll go back to TOTW, she tolerated that fine. I'll have to look up the protein content for TOTW, if she can handle that and Canidae is about the same then we should be ok....


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5 (Feb 11, 2010)

buy the grain free als. you said your dog likes fish so get the salmon one. i cant wait to get my dog off the regular canidae als and onto the grain free. i just want him to have a better diet. although i feel fish foods are for cats,and i also like several meats in my food so im not going with the salmon. also canidae uses fish preservatives in the food so i definitely dont want a predominately fish using formulation.
i say definately choose canidae over TOTW. dogs like meat and no food on the market, not orijen, not totw(not sure about evo) has more protein from meat. canidae has 80 percent from meat without being too rich like orijen which has 70 percents from meat but is rich in protein from other stuff like vegetables.
oh canidae sends samples too. request a sample of the regular als and the grainfree. i requested samples of the grain free the other day, and since ive been supporting the company for 2-3 years i asked for a sample of the als9wanted free food =p)

they also sent me felidae which is cat food....so i think they may just have prepared sample packs cause i dont have a cat...whats funnyis the felidae was shape's like bones..dogs like bones not cats lol.

my dog has had no issues on canidae. hes turning 7 in June ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vpv_9vD8DjQ


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## andreah1 (Mar 8, 2010)

I bought the 5 lb bag of grain free als so we'll see how it goes. Not even opening it yet thought, want to finish out the blue buffalo. I didn't buy the fish one because it cost a little more and I see they do have some fish in the als grain free and I think that will help, I think I like fish mainly because I read it's better on a dogs stomach and she tends to be a little iffy on some stuff, tummy gets gurgly and she gets tired acting. We'll see how this works out. I did request some food from them so we'll see what happens....


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> they also sent me felidae which is cat food....so i think they may just have prepared sample packs cause i dont have a cat...whats funnyis the felidae was shape's like bones..dogs like bones not cats lol.


My cats eat bones almost daily. They love them and spend a lot of time chewing on them.


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> they also sent me felidae which is cat food....so i think they may just have prepared sample packs cause i dont have a cat...whats funnyis the felidae was shape's like bones..dogs like bones not cats lol.


That's strange. I fed my cat Felidae when I brought her home, and it definately was not bone shaped. Just circles, like normal kitty kibble.


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> . just want him to have a better diet. although i feel fish foods are for cats,and i also like several meats in my food so im not going with the salmon.


I'm curious as to why you feel fish foods are for cats? Fish is a great part of a dog's diet and has oils that greatly benefit a dog. Also, I understand the logic of wanting more meats in the dog's diet, but seeing as it is a TERRIBLE idea to feed one kibble and only one kibble for a dog's lifespan, that is kind of where a rotation diet plays in. 
I mean, you're not planning on feeding Canidae Grain Free ALS and ONLY that one food to your dog forever, are you? 




RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> .
> i say definately choose canidae over TOTW. dogs like meat and no food on the market, not orijen, not totw(not sure about evo) has more protein from meat. canidae has 80 percent from meat without being too rich like orijen which has 70 percents from meat but is rich in protein from other stuff like vegetables.


You MUST look st more than just that one number to determine the quality of the food. for example, the amount of carbohydrate in a dog food greatly impacts the quality. Carbs are dangerous, and canidae is packed full of them. While it's still a "decent" food, I wouldn't go picking it over some of the other on the market if they were in my budget. **not all grain free foods are necessarily low carb**


Carbs= min Protein - min Fat - max Moisture 

CANIDAE GRAIN FREE ALS 
protein: 34%
fat: 18%
moisture: 10%
carbs: max 38%

EVO
Evo lists carbs at a MAX of 12%


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5 (Feb 11, 2010)

andreah1 said:


> I bought the 5 lb bag of grain free als so we'll see how it goes. Not even opening it yet thought, want to finish out the blue buffalo. I didn't buy the fish one because it cost a little more and I see they do have some fish in the als grain free and I think that will help, I think I like fish mainly because I read it's better on a dogs stomach and she tends to be a little iffy on some stuff, tummy gets gurgly and she gets tired acting. We'll see how this works out. I did request some food from them so we'll see what happens....


awesome let me know how it goes, i cant wait to buy the grain free..although im gonna get the 30 pound bag since my dog tolerates canidae.


CorgiPaws said:


> I'm curious as to why you feel fish foods are for cats? Fish is a great part of a dog's diet and has oils that greatly benefit a dog. Also, I understand the logic of wanting more meats in the dog's diet, but seeing as it is a TERRIBLE idea to feed one kibble and only one kibble for a dog's lifespan, that is kind of where a rotation diet plays in.
> I mean, you're not planning on feeding Canidae Grain Free ALS and ONLY that one food to your dog forever, are you?
> 
> 
> ...


according to the site grain free canidae is 26 percent net carbs..

and salmon is 19.5.
even if the carbs are slightly more it has more meat and less protein. which means that the extra protein from orijen is from potatoes...

theres no denying canidae has more meat...

well idk how long to keep him on one food. but i dont see why yo ushould rotate since if you find a food that doesnt upset your doggy then why switch? i mean there are only like 4 grain free foods that dont have extremely rich protein levels...which right now is what i want to stick to. i saw in another thread that innova evo red meat had vegetables listed higher than they used to.. also wellness core now changed ingridients so its not high quality..i just know i can trust canidae!!

id love to feed orijen as well but im scared of the radiation!!!! i also dont think my store carries regional reds.

also raw fed dogs said his calcultions say that evo has more than 12.

besides for a dog food 26 is low carb..just higher end for a grain free.


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> according to the site grain free canidae is 26 percent net carbs..
> 
> also raw fed dogs said his calcultions say that evo has more than 12.


I didn't see that claim on the website. 
The calculations vary batch to batch, because as I already said, you take the MINUMUM amounts, and subtract them to get the MAXIMUM amounts of carbs. If they have a statement on their product, guaranteeing carbs do not exceed a particular amount, then of course go by that, rather than a min/max number.
Also, according to the calculations, canidae has more carbs, so if you find RFD's claim against evo valid, so would the calculations against Canidae. 




RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> i dont see why yo ushould rotate since if you find a food that doesnt upset your doggy then why switch?


Because it is entirely unnatural, unhealthy, and is one of the easiest ways for a dog to develop allergies. 
VARIETY is key in ANY kind of diet. 
If there was a product on the market for people, claiming to be "perfectly balanced" while being very overly processed, and it came in little kernels, and you ate them like cereal, but it didn't upset your stomach, does any part of that sound healthy to eat that, and only that, for the entirety of your life? To me, rotation is common sense. 




RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> i saw in another thread that innova evo red meat had vegetables listed higher than they used to.. also wellness core now changed ingridients so its not high quality..i just know i can trust canidae!!


Canidae's ingredients changed a while back. THEY DIDN'T EVEN NOTIFY THE PUBLIC BEFORE THE NEW FORMULA HIT THE SHELVES! For a short time, they even had the new formula in the old bags, therefore it was entirely mismarked. A lot of dogs got violently ill. 
They're also produced by Diamond, who has had tons of recalls and contamination issues. 
Innova is made by Natura, one of the VERY few companies who test their final product, and have a rep there to supervise production. 
But you trust canidae and not innova?

Disclaimer: I don't hate canidae. Heck, I've used canidae. (though i'd never pay for it now, knowing how close in quality it is to kirkland, and the $30/bag price difference) I just don't praise canidea quite like you. the company DOES have faults. The food is NOT perfect. 




RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> id love to feed orijen as well but im scared of the radiation!!!! i also dont think my store carries regional reds.


Oh my heck, Orijen is NOT radiated in the united states. If it were, we'd know, just like we know it got treated going into Austrailia. If that had been in character for the company, it would not have been made into such a huge deal. Champion is one of the most trusted dog food companies out there, as well as Natura. Diamond, however, is a rather controversial company, with many many complaints against them, lawsuits even... and many many recalls under their belt.


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## harrkim120 (Feb 2, 2010)

CorgiPaws said:


> I didn't see that claim on the website.
> The calculations vary batch to batch, because as I already said, you take the MINUMUM amounts, and subtract them to get the MAXIMUM amounts of carbs. If they have a statement on their product, guaranteeing carbs do not exceed a particular amount, then of course go by that, rather than a min/max number.
> Also, according to the calculations, canidae has more carbs, so if you find RFD's claim against evo valid, so would the calculations against Canidae.
> 
> ...


You go girl. :biggrin: lol

You say everything I want to say, but don't know how to say it.


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## harrkim120 (Feb 2, 2010)

One more thing...RCTRIPLEFRESH5, what did you say the amounts of protein were in Orijen and Canidae were? And how much of that protein was derived from meat? You posted it in a reply somewhere I just can't find it.


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## malluver1005 (Nov 15, 2009)

CorgiPaws said:


> I'm curious as to why you feel fish foods are for cats? Fish is a great part of a dog's diet and has oils that greatly benefit a dog. Also, I understand the logic of wanting more meats in the dog's diet, but seeing as it is a TERRIBLE idea to feed one kibble and only one kibble for a dog's lifespan, that is kind of where a rotation diet plays in.
> I mean, you're not planning on feeding Canidae Grain Free ALS and ONLY that one food to your dog forever, are you?
> 
> 
> ...


Ditto! :smile:

Different protein sources are best.


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5 (Feb 11, 2010)

harrkim120 said:


> One more thing...RCTRIPLEFRESH5, what did you say the amounts of protein were in Orijen and Canidae were? And how much of that protein was derived from meat? You posted it in a reply somewhere I just can't find it.


canidae gbrain freee has 35 percent protein 90 from meats 20 from veggies
canidae salmon GF jas 40 percent protein 80 from meats 20 from veggies
orijen has 40 i think and 70 from meats 30 from veggies.
orijen regioal red has 38 but im not sure the percentage of meats.


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## harrkim120 (Feb 2, 2010)

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> canidae gbrain freee has 35 percent protein 90 from meats 20 from veggies
> canidae salmon GF jas 40 percent protein 80 from meats 20 from veggies
> orijen has 40 i think and 70 from meats 30 from veggies.
> orijen regioal red has 38 but im not sure the percentage of meats.


These numbers are different this time. And not correct...meats and veggies make up 110% of Canidae grain free's 35% protein? 

Either way, the point that I was trying to make was that the numbers you were giving before only proved that Candiae and Orijen had the same amount of meat.


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## harrkim120 (Feb 2, 2010)

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> im confused innova evo canned only has 10 percent protein. how is that enough even if its al lfrom meats? what is the difference bewtween percentage of protei nand percent form emats?
> 
> canidae has 80 percent meat protein yet onlly 34 percent protein in the grain free
> 
> ...


Your numbers are constantly changing. 

By this example Orijen has 0.8% more protein than Canidae.

By your math, 80% of Canidae's 34% total protein would give it 27.2% total protein from meat, whereas 70% of Orijen's 40% total protein would give it 28% total protein from meat.

(Thanks to the boyfriend for figuring that one out. :biggrin


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5 (Feb 11, 2010)

harrkim120 said:


> Your numbers are constantly changing.
> 
> By this example Orijen has 0.8% more protein than Canidae.
> 
> ...


how are my numbers changing? you said you didnt even see my other posts. ive consistently said canidae has 80 percent meat protein, and have consistently said total protein was 35.

i have consistently said orijen has 70 percent meat protein and have consistently said orijen has 40 percent protein.

i included the salmon for you as well since iwasnt sure which you asked for.

still point is they pretty much have equal meat protein so the extra percentage is kind of unecessary in my eyes. and canidae is a lot cheaper lol.

but i might add orijen to the rotation. ive never rotated how long do i use eah food? im switching to canidae grain free at the end of the month so say april.


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## andreah1 (Mar 8, 2010)

Aaacckk, my simple (I thought, ha ha) question turned into a biggie!!! Now I'm second guessing my choice of Canidae! But Piper has a fairly sensitive stomach and I think the Evo may be too rich for her. Would staying on Canidae for months/year or two be ok or do you suggest rotating more than that? I really don't want to rotate because it means the whole transition thing every time you rotate and it's a pain in the butt as far as I'm concerned. What do you think?


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## harrkim120 (Feb 2, 2010)

andreah1 said:


> Aaacckk, my simple (I thought, ha ha) question turned into a biggie!!!


That happens a lot around here. :biggrin: That's good though.



andreah1 said:


> Now I'm second guessing my choice of Canidae! But Piper has a fairly sensitive stomach and I think the Evo may be too rich for her.


Don't second guess it...Canidae is a decent food. The only reason that some of us weren't all gun ho (proper spelling? lol) about it is not because of the food itself, but because of some of the information being thrown around here. We like to keep everything accurate so that people can come here and get some good information. :smile:



andreah1 said:


> Would staying on Canidae for months/year or two be OK or do you suggest rotating more than that? I really don't want to rotate because it means the whole transition thing every time you rotate and it's a pain in the butt as far as I'm concerned. What do you think?


In my opinion, you should switch foods and protein sources about every 3 to 6 months. You really don't need a huge plethora of foods either, just 3 or 4 goods ones will do. However, some people keep their dog on the same brand of food for their whole life with no issues. 

I would try this food and if she likes it and does well on it then keep her on it as long as you feel necessary. When and if you do decide to change, just do it slowly. Keep enough food from the old bag to last about 10 days and when serving, slowly add more and more new food to the diet. Some loose stools can be expected, but a little loose stools never hurt anybody...so long as it doesn't go for days and days.  lol If you'd feel better, a little plain, canned pumpkin will bind her up in no time.

Good luck, and let us all know how it goes. :biggrin:


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## andreah1 (Mar 8, 2010)

Thanks Harrkim, appreciate what you said. Once I get her on the candidae I think I'll switch it out maybe once a year with TOTW since I know she's ok with that one as well. Maybe that way she won't get bored either. Maybe in the future I'll buy both and just mix them together so she's always getting different protein sources...we shall see!!! Thanks again!


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## harrkim120 (Feb 2, 2010)

andreah1 said:


> Thanks Harrkim, appreciate what you said. Once I get her on the candidae I think I'll switch it out maybe once a year with TOTW since I know she's ok with that one as well. Maybe that way she won't get bored either. Maybe in the future I'll buy both and just mix them together so she's always getting different protein sources...we shall see!!! Thanks again!


My pleasure. That's what the forum is for. :biggrin:

If you do decide to mix some of the foods together I would still switch it every once and a while. A lot of people do it (although not recommended sometimes, I've never seen an issue so long as they're both of decent quality), but they're still getting those same two protein sources constantly. I would just keep that in mind. :wink:


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## andreah1 (Mar 8, 2010)

Trying to find a way out of it, ha ha...oh well, I'm sure after about 6 months or so I'll be wanting to switch it up a little anyway!


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## harrkim120 (Feb 2, 2010)

andreah1 said:


> Trying to find a way out of it, ha ha...oh well, I'm sure after about 6 months or so I'll be wanting to switch it up a little anyway!


Haha...it will be ok. This might help her pickyness a bit too, like you said. However in the mean time I would follow the suggestions for picky eaters that some offered previously.

How is she doing with her eating now anyway?


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## andreah1 (Mar 8, 2010)

She was doing fabulously all week and then this morning didn't eat her breakfast, dang it! I think she knows I want to finish up the blue buff. so I can start the new stuff! Oh well, we'll see how she does for dinner. By the way, I'm SURE she'll like any food with turkey in it...we went for a walk last night and we have quite a few wild turkeys around, she caught a scent and went deep into the woods to find them...next thing I know, one goes flying over my head, I was laughing my butt off.


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## harrkim120 (Feb 2, 2010)

andreah1 said:


> She was doing fabulously all week and then this morning didn't eat her breakfast, dang it! I think she knows I want to finish up the blue buff. so I can start the new stuff! Oh well, we'll see how she does for dinner. By the way, I'm SURE she'll like any food with turkey in it...we went for a walk last night and we have quite a few wild turkeys around, she caught a scent and went deep into the woods to find them...next thing I know, one goes flying over my head, I was laughing my butt off.


Haha...them doggies love them turkeys. :wink: Mine caught a duck mid air one time...that was interesting. lol 

Good luck with tonight's meal. Just be strict about it. :biggrin:


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