# Carlos' Journey- Thoughts and Prayers needed **Graphic**



## Makovach

This thread is dedicated to the journey Carlos will endure during his trip to health. Long story short, Carlos was rehomed. This was the result, Farrah has him back. He is ill and needs your prayers, thoughts and vibes. This is going to be a battle for his life.









Carlos with his Lab sister, Piper, two weeks before being rehomed.

Carlos’ story-
On April 08, 2012, Carlos was rehomed. We had Carlos in our custody again on 06/02/2012, not quite two months later. In these two short months, Carlos became very emaciated, anemic, dehydrated and all around ill. The first vet that saw him, stated that this looks as if it was a case of starvation. Carlos is living day by day. He is down to 30lbs in June from 52lbs in April. All of his bones are visible and he isn’t even able to keep himself warm. He is eating every two to three hours as well as being on many supplements to help keep him going. He used to turn his nose up at dog food, now it seems as if he cannot get enough. This is going to be one long road, but we ask that if you can spare it, keep this tough guy in your thoughts and prayers. He has so much will to live and is fighting for his life every day.

06/02/2012




























06/04/2012


















Thank you for taking your time to read Carlos’ story. We will keep updating this thread as we learn more about his condition and try to improve his health to save his life.


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## FurMom1089

I once took in 2 dogs that were a lil worse than that *any worse and death is all thats left* We had to euth one after a week, too much suffering :/ The other has a perminant home now and is 11 years young  Good luck with this guy! I would be so upset if one of my fosters came back looking like that :/


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## Liz

How is he doing? Is he still keeping food down? Has he gained any weight?


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## Makovach

Liz said:


> How is he doing? Is he still keeping food down? Has he gained any weight?


He has his moments that he seems weak, but he is a fighter. Went for a short walk today. He's been keeping food down. He has gained three lbs in the last three days, but we think it may be mostly from getting hydrated again.


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## BearMurphy

I'm shocked...not even sure what to say. I hope he starts to gain weight soon


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## Liz

You are doing a great job. Please keep the exercise to a minimum - just a stretch of the legs. He needs some body fat and to regulate his own temp before I would really do any exercise and I do worry about his heart. Remember to keep him warm. You are doing a great job - I am sorry he is going through this - It is horrible that his condition was allowed to deteriorate to this point, I am glad you were able to get him back and are getting him on the right track. Keep up the good work and please keep us updated.


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## liquid

Im shocked as well.. do you know what happened to him? Was it owner neglect?

Best of luck bringing him back to health. It sounds like you guys are off to a good start. Please keep us updated.


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## BeagleCountry

My blood is boiling. Unless the person who was in possession of Carlos has a file cabinet full of vet receipts he/she should be prosecuted for animal neglect and possible abuse to the full extent of the law. This poor excuse for a human being should be denied the privilege of owning any animal for the remainder of his/her life. 

It does appear that the weight gain is due to hydration. How old is Carlos? It is amazing that his coat shines. Hopefully, that indicates there are some nutrients left. Carlos is one hell of a fighter!

All the positive thoughts I can muster are headed your way. 

Be well Carlos.


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## Little Brown Jug

I'm keeping him in my thoughts. The poor boy, what is wrong with people? Why get a dog if you won't take care of it? I can't understand how someone can do this and look at it and think nothing is wrong, feel no guilt. Poor, poor little man.


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## MollyWoppy

This is enough to make you cry. Will be writing again, but I have to take a bit of time to try and not react and to choose my words carefully because I will run the risk of being banned if I say what is on my mind.
I feel like a naive idiot because I presumed members on this forum cared more for their dogs than the average dog owner. It just shows how easily you can be sucked in. 
Carlos is the lucky one, he has the best chance of recovery possible. I fear greatly for the other dog. 
All the best luck in the world to Carlos and to you Makovach.


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## lauren43

So sad. Thank god Carlos is in the best of hand now!


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## Chocx2

Poor baby, please keep us posted on his improvement. He has such a sweet face


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## Donna Little

I'm a little in the dark on this whole story so am wondering a few things. 
Was Carlos a foster or your own dog that you had to rehome? 
Was he adopted to someone you know or a stranger? Either way, like someone else stated, unless that person could show you a bunch of vet records to prove they've been trying to figure out why he was losing so much weight I'd have them arrested for animal cruelty and neglect.
Did they call you and ask to return him or how did you come about getting him back?
His condition is ridiculous and I don't know how you didn't literally beat the crap out of them. To think of the amount of hunger he's had to endure to get that thin... I just can't imagine.
I'll be keeping Carlos in my thoughts as well as you. Please keep us updated. It sounds like you're going about things in the right way with the multiple smaller meals a day. I've had 2 dogs in my care that were thinner than him and they bounced back remarkably well so hopefully it'll be all good from here forward. Hugs and kisses to Carlos!!


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## Makovach

liquid said:


> Im shocked as well.. do you know what happened to him? Was it owner neglect?
> 
> Best of luck bringing him back to health. It sounds like you guys are off to a good start. Please keep us updated.


We are not exactly positive on what happened.
Hopefully the vet will have more insite when we go on in on Friday.


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## Nana52

I never cease to be appalled at what so-called humans will do to an innocent animal  Thankfully he's with you now and has a fighting chance. Just take the best care of him you can, as I know you will, and you and he will be in my thoughts and prayers.


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## Makovach

Donna Little said:


> I'm a little in the dark on this whole story so am wondering a few things.
> Was Carlos a foster or your own dog that you had to rehome?
> Was he adopted to someone you know or a stranger? Either way, like someone else stated, unless that person could show you a bunch of vet records to prove they've been trying to figure out why he was losing so much weight I'd have them arrested for animal cruelty and neglect.
> Did they call you and ask to return him or how did you come about getting him back?
> His condition is ridiculous and I don't know how you didn't literally beat the crap out of them. To think of the amount of hunger he's had to endure to get that thin... I just can't imagine.
> I'll be keeping Carlos in my thoughts as well as you. Please keep us updated. It sounds like you're going about things in the right way with the multiple smaller meals a day. I've had 2 dogs in my care that were thinner than him and they bounced back remarkably well so hopefully it'll be all good from here forward. Hugs and kisses to Carlos!!


Carlos was my best friends dog, that she chose to rehome thinking that he would be better off. Now that she has him back she feels terrible and she has decided he will not be leaving again.
We did not personally know the adopter.
We talked back and forth and had a plan to keep Carlos until he was on the right track for a few weeks thinking (from what we were told) that this was just a tough time adjusting to a new home and diet. After seeing his condition, Farrah decided it was much worse than we thought and he wouldn't be going back.

Thank you everyone for the thoughts and prayers. I will update you all after the vet visit tmrw and let you know how it goes.


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## Donna Little

Makovach said:


> Carlos was my best friends dog, that she chose to rehome thinking that he would be better off. Now that she has him back she feels terrible and she has decided he will not be leaving again.
> We did not personally know the adopter.
> We talked back and forth and had a plan to keep Carlos until he was on the right track for a few weeks thinking (from what we were told) that this was just a tough time adjusting to a new home and diet. After seeing his condition, Farrah decided it was much worse than we thought and he wouldn't be going back.
> 
> Thank you everyone for the thoughts and prayers. I will update you all after the vet visit tmrw and let you know how it goes.


Thanks for filling in the blanks. I'm wishing all the best for this poor fellow and hope he makes a full recovery. I don't know if I'd ever be able to let him go again if I was your friend after this. Makes it hard to have faith in mankind doesn't it?


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## BearMurphy

Makovach said:


> We are not exactly positive on what happened.
> Hopefully the vet will have more insite when we go on in on Friday.


wow you are being really polite about this.

was he given heartworm preventative before going to live with that person in april? he looked skinnier on 4/9 than in the photo you have from 2 weeks before adoption.

i hope for carlos sake it's just starvation but that also makes me think really horrible things about the person who let him get to this point


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## bridget246

It isn't a lack of food. That wasn't the issue here at all. The biggest issue he was dealing with came around his last problem with the turkey legs. I was speaking with Makovach about what to best do which wasn't this bad until he hit an unexpected drop. When I tried to move him back to only chicken for 3 weeks he lost a lot of weight and I was at a lost on how to get him to get it back if chicken was all I was using but hoped he would get better using it. I tried cutting off all the fat to make it easier on him to try to get his system back in place so it could be readded which is what was suggested. I did make a few post about this being concerned with his weight. It was the same thing that I did with Bridget who was just as bad off as Carlos. I can tell you on his last day with me he started to turn around. It was as if he was finally getting use to the place. His translation was a very hard and long one. 

After going through this same thing with Bridget and following the advice posting here with her and how she looked I just kept hoping the same would happen for him. 

Before anyone even ask we did start off with 3 weeks of chicken and raised the amounts, then 2-3 weeks of turkey with the amount of food going up. Pork we stumbled on(maybe I introduced it wrong). He gained a little bit of weight when I added in the beef. Then it was suggested that I was moving too fast and I should take away the beef and go back to chicken. I did that despite my own concerns. When that wasn't working well I tried cutting off all the skin and fat from the chicken backs. 



.


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## Caty M

Was he taken to a vet though?.. he is at half is recommended weight and was near death..


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## bridget246

BearMurphy said:


> wow you are being really polite about this.
> 
> was he given heartworm preventative before going to live with that person in april? he looked skinnier on 4/9 than in the photo you have from 2 weeks before adoption.
> 
> i hope for carlos sake it's just starvation but that also makes me think really horrible things about the person who let him get to this point


I don't know if Makovach will agree with me after the picture she posted from 2 weeks before but he didn't even look close to that when I got him. I wanted him to gain weight since I had him. I was told he wasn't really eating his kibble and that is why he lost weight so maybe raw will fatten him up again. That was the goal.


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## magicre

the dog was starved. period.


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## bridget246

magicre said:


> the dog was starved. period.


If that is the case then I suppose Bridget was starved as well. I followed the advice that was given to me and maybe I shouldn't have. Maybe I should have did something else until he was back to normal weight. Problem was I didn't know what that something else was if he really wasn't eating the kibble they had tried. 

I messed up so blame away. Just know that I did so with good intentions.

Bridget got so bad a vet told me it looked like she was going die if that wasn't changed. Yes, this was a different dog but the same problem. I did every vet test I could to try to get an answer and never did find out anything. 

BTW, the reason she got the dog back was because I could clearly see what I was doing wasn't working. We were going down hill when I wanted to be going uphill.

Last note. The important thing to consider here is that he was gaining weight again now. I don't know if I was fighting something with him or not. But on the last day with me he changed completely which is leading me to believe that he might have been sick from something and had recently gotten over it. I couldn't tell you what that was. 

Lets keep him in our thoughts and prayers for now. For those who wanted the story you got it.


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## magicre

bridget246 said:


> If that is the case then I suppose Bridget was starved as well. I followed the advice that was given to me and maybe I shouldn't have. Maybe I should have did something else until he was back to normal weight. Problem was I didn't know what that something else was if he really wasn't eating the kibble they had tried.
> 
> I messed up so blame away. Just know that I did so with good intentions.
> 
> Bridget got so bad a vet told me it looked like she was going die if that wasn't changed. Yes, this was a different dog but the same problem. I did every vet test I could to try to get an answer and never did find out anything.
> 
> BTW, the reason she got the dog back was because I could clearly see what I was doing wasn't working. We were going down hill when I wanted to be going uphill.


i don't know what you did to bridget......i can only hope that bridget doesn't look like carlos.

whatever happened with carlos happened on your watch.

your street cred is no longer valid.


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## Caty M

Had the dog seen a vet, though? He was very sick and dehydrated when he was taken back.


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## magicre

Caty M said:


> Had the dog seen a vet, though? He was very sick and dehydrated when he was taken back.


caty, there is a difference between a dog who is sick and gaunt and a dog who has been starved. this dog was starved.


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## bridget246

magicre said:


> i don't know what you did to bridget......i can only hope that bridget doesn't look like carlos.
> 
> whatever happened with carlos happened on your watch.
> 
> your street cred is no longer valid.


She did look like Carlos. Actually at her worse Carlos actually looked better. Don't know if I ever had any street cred to began with.



Caty M said:


> Had the dog seen a vet, though? He was very sick and dehydrated when he was taken back.


He is going to the vet today. It was also questioned rather or not he had access to water. Which he did 24/7. And he had a lot of chicken broth too on top of his normal water.


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## Caty M

No I mean, did he see a vet whilst in your care.


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## bridget246

Caty M said:


> No I mean, did he see a vet whilst in your care.


Yes. A few days after I took him in. Vet told me he way under weight but didn't have any noticeable problems. Back then his stool was fine and all was going like planned. I didn't get him HW tested but I should have. 

Then suddenly it all crashed on me without any notice. I made a post about it on 5-30.


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## magicre

so humble. so deprecating.

taking all the blame. spoken like a true abuser.

after the fact.

if anyone believes this, let me be the first one to take off the gloves and not be so polite.

i call bull.


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## liquid

Wow... absolutely no words for this.

A vet saw him in that condition and said he was fine, just underweight..!?


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## bridget246

magicre said:


> so humble. so deprecating.
> 
> taking all the blame. spoken like a true abuser.
> 
> after the fact.
> 
> if anyone believes this, let me be the first one to take off the gloves and not be so polite.
> 
> i call bull.


That would imply that didn't take any blame during the fact. Which I did. 

You know, what if I wasn't lying? I have no proof beyond what I posted here. 

It seems to get the idea that I'm not wanted. I understand that. So I'll be leaving. Thank you guys for your help.




liquid said:


> Wow... absolutely no words for this.
> 
> A vet saw him in that condition and said he was fine, just underweight..!?


He said he was very under weight. And no, he wasn't as bad the pictures. That is what recently happened.


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## magicre

i can only hope that criminal charges are brought against you and that your home is inspected to ensure the health and well being of everyone in it.

i have, before i posted here, picked apart every word you've written....and i am astounded that i didn't catch who you are before i saw the pics of carlos.

that dog looks like a victim of a concentration camp. and believe me, i've seen plenty of them.

i simply cannot fathom how you came to this forum of dog lovers who struggle daily with feeding and caring for their dogs the best they can and you have the NERVE, the absolute GALL to come to this place of love and help and understanding...and do what you did to that dog, whilst lying to our faces.

never mistake the internet for a place where it is nothing but words.

there are people behind these keyboards.....and each and every one of us was so touched by your pleas for help.

all i can do now is hope you get yours.

karma is karma.


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## Little Brown Jug

So is bridget the one that rehomed Carlos and is Mak's friend? Or is she the one that starved Carlos? I'm so confused. I just hope Carlos can get back on his paws and be a happy healthy dog again.


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## Caty M

Bridget is the one that was the adopter of Carlos. Don't think Mak's friend is on this forum?


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## bridget246

magicre said:


> i can only hope that criminal charges are brought against you and that your home is inspected to ensure the health and well being of everyone in it.
> 
> i have, before i posted here, picked apart every word you've written....and i am astounded that i didn't catch who you are before i saw the pics of carlos.
> 
> that dog looks like a victim of a concentration camp. and believe me, i've seen plenty of them.
> 
> i simply cannot fathom how you came to this forum of dog lovers who struggle daily with feeding and caring for their dogs the best they can and you have the NERVE, the absolute GALL to come to this place of love and help and understanding...and do what you did to that dog, whilst lying to our faces.
> 
> never mistake the internet for a place where it is nothing but words.
> 
> there are people behind these keyboards.....and each and every one of us was so touched by your pleas for help.
> 
> all i can do now is hope you get yours.
> 
> karma is karma.


I have to say that is the worst anyone has ever said to me. But your words mean well even if they are misplaced. I hope nothing but the best for you and everyone else.


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## magicre

bridget246 said:


> I have to say that is the worst anyone has ever said to me. But your words mean well even if they are misplaced. I hope nothing but the best for you and everyone else.


i could say much worse, but manners and forum policy precludes anything else.

i don't want your best wishes......i am in need of a shower after this.

to everyone else....

carlos was rehomed because the owner was facing eviction if she did not rehome the dog.

bridget was looking for a dog, as he posted earlier.

in bridget's care, this happened.

there are pics of carlos taken two weeks before bridget got him.

bridget posted about all the trouble he was having. advice after advice was given.....and, all the while, this dog was being starved and i don't know what else happened.

makovach and the former owner became aware of this and took carlos back.

carlos is now under the care of a vet and hopefully will survive this ordeal.

i have nothing but kind words for makovach and for the owner of carlos who feels horrible that this happened to her dog when she thought he'd be going to a loving caring home.

this has turned out to NOT be the case.

and, as happens on occasion, people were fooled by bridget and his act.

this all occurred in the space of two months.


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## meggels

I'm sorry, but how do you even let it get to THAT point and then think it suddenly went downhill. Things were downhill for AWHILE to get to the point of pictures Makovach just posted. 

Maybe raw wasn't gonna work for Carlos. At that point, I'd be trying ever god damn kibble and wet food or christ, home cooking, to keep him healthy. 

What that dog looks like now is appalling and disgusting. It doesn't just get to that over night. And I'm scared for Bridget's future....


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## bridget246

Made aware because I told them.


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## Little Brown Jug

How does someone look at their dog in that condition and not think "hey, something isn't working here I need to make a change"? How does someone let it get to this extreme? How does a vet not say/do something when the dog is brought to them in such a condition? How are they still allowed to own another dog. I pity the other dog and hope some legal action is taken. Try adopting a rock, at least you can't starve those.

I constantly battle with Boone's weight. But when I notice he's dropped a couple pounds I change his diet to get those back on. Its really not that difficult.


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## angelbears

When is the last time this dog has seen a vet?


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## magicre

meggels said:


> I'm sorry, but how do you even let it get to THAT point and then think it suddenly went downhill. Things were downhill for AWHILE to get to the point of pictures Makovach just posted.
> 
> Maybe raw wasn't gonna work for Carlos. At that point, I'd be trying ever god damn kibble and wet food or christ, home cooking, to keep him healthy.
> 
> What that dog looks like now is appalling and disgusting. It doesn't just get to that over night. And I'm scared for Bridget's future....


and you, my meg, have hit the nail on the proverbial head.


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## magicre

angelbears said:


> When is the last time this dog has seen a vet?


this dog is currently under the care of a holistic vet and has been since sunday last.


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## magicre

bridget246 said:


> Made aware because I told them.


well, you surely did wait until he was almost dead to tell anyone.


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## Nana52

magicre said:


> i could say much worse, but manners and forum policy precludes anything else.
> 
> carlos was rehomed because the owner was facing eviction if she did not rehome the dog.
> 
> bridget was looking for a dog, as he posted earlier.
> 
> in bridget's care, this happened.
> 
> there are pics of carlos taken two weeks before bridget got him.
> 
> bridget posted about all the trouble he was having. advice after advice was given.....and, all the while, this dog was being starved and i don't know what else happened.
> 
> makovach and the former owner became aware of this and took carlos back.
> 
> carlos is now under the care of a vet and hopefully will survive this ordeal.
> 
> i have nothing but kind words for makovach and for the owner of carlos who feels horrible that this happened to her dog when she thought he'd be going to a loving caring home.
> 
> this has turned out to NOT be the case.
> 
> and, as happens on occasion, people were fooled by bridget and his act.
> 
> this all occurred in the space of two months.


Obviously, I've arrived late to the party and had no idea what was going on. All I can say is that I hope and pray Carlos will be recover from his terrible ordeal now that he is back in a truly loving, caring environment.


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## MollyWoppy

Bridget, I'm finding it very hard to find the words to express what I want to say, and this is because the only times I've ever seen pictures of dogs looking like this is in the worst animal neglect or cancer cases. I never, ever, in a million years thought one of us regulars here on DFC could let their dog get into this type of condition. I liked you. I believed you. I respected you. I had faith that you were doing everything in your power to help Carlos.

Looking at Carlos, couldn't you see that something was obviously terribly wrong? Couldn't you see that the dog was dying? Didn't your heart just break and wouldn't you have done anything, paid every last cent you had to find out what was wrong and fix it? What did your Mum say, what did your girlfriend say? 
Why didn't you post pictures on here if you were that worried, just to give us a clue? Sure, you said he was skinny and having problems with food, but going by your posts, none of us in a trillion years would ever have thought you were dealing with a dog in this condition. 
Words fail me, I'm so disappointed. Saying that, I will be interested to see what the vets findings are, that will be the telling of what's happened.
You should rehome Bridget. I'm serious. If you say that she was thinner than Carlos then it's simply too much of a coincidence that two dogs in the same home are at deaths door.


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## magicre

molly...the vet's findings, were that the dog was close to death from STARVATION, not from the story given about slippery elm being dosed for two months.


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## bridget246

One last post. Bridget recovered from it following the advice given to me. She is doing great and I have you guys to thank for it. I don't feel it is right to dirty this thread with Bridget's success. No intervention is needed there so leave it alone. I understand why everyone is up in arms against me. I apologize to you all. Maybe I'm not intelligent enough to think my way through all the problems that I was facing. I should have been posting more pictures to go along with it. I shouldn't have focused on so much on past experiences. You can call me a lot of things that would probably fit. But I didn't lie to anyone.




magicre said:


> molly...the vet's findings, were that the dog was close to death from STARVATION, not from the story given about slippery elm being dosed for two months.


That was just in the last week because he wasn't holding anything in. I was trying to help his system recover and keep him starvation. I fought hard for that.


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## meggels

magicre said:


> and you, my meg, have hit the nail on the proverbial head.


I mean obviously raw is ideal, but if a dog is simply not transitinoing well, and is getting to be so thin it's downright scary, then maybe you need to first bulk them up and make them healthy on a high quality kibble/canned/home cooked diet before they just keep losing SO MUCH WEIGHT that they look like an ASPCA commercial, or worse.


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## magicre

meggels said:


> I mean obviously raw is ideal, but if a dog is simply not transitinoing well, and is getting to be so thin it's downright scary, then maybe you need to first bulk them up and make them healthy on a high quality kibble/canned/home cooked diet before they just keep losing SO MUCH WEIGHT that they look like an ASPCA commercial, or worse.


you are absolutely right. there have been plenty of times, that when a dog is not responding to raw the way a dog can respond to raw, the recommendation is to pick a good kibble, even some canned....put weight on, give supps and then try again when the dog is healthier.

this is obviously not what happened here.

bridget is not being truthful.....but he is playing the victim and should get an award for that.


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## magicre

bridget246 said:


> One last post. Bridget recovered from it following the advice given to me. She is doing great and I have you guys to thank for it. I don't feel it is right to dirty this thread with Bridget's success. No intervention is needed there so leave it alone. I understand why everyone is up in arms against me. I apologize to you all. Maybe I'm not intelligent enough to think my way through all the problems that I was facing. I should have been posting more pictures to go along with it. I shouldn't have focused on so much on past experiences. You can call me a lot of things that would probably fit. But I didn't lie to anyone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That was just in the last week because he wasn't holding anything in. I was trying to help his system recover and keep him starvation. I fought hard for that.


the only thing you did was starve a dog. bridget, fortunately for you, bridget has been seen in public and is underweight but not horribly so.

you starved this dog. stop playing the victim.

your apology is false and not accepted by me, at least.


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## Unosmom

Poor fella, I don't want to jump the blame train, but it would be nice to know the whole story. What was he fed prior to rehoming? was he switched to raw for medical reasons? how slow was the transition? 

Honestly, if the dog was doing well on kibble and suddenly dropping all this weight on raw, no matter how much you may believe that raw is ideal, I would put him back on whatever he was on, plus anything else like satin balls to keep his weight up, then maybe try again but with a help of someone more experienced. Even so, raw is not for everyone, I'd much rather see a dog eating a good quality kibble then imbalanced raw.


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## magicre

Unosmom said:


> Poor fella, I don't want to jump the blame train, but it would be nice to know the whole story. What was he fed prior to rehoming? was he switched to raw for medical reasons? how slow was the transition?
> 
> Honestly, if the dog was doing well on kibble and suddenly dropping all this weight on raw, no matter how much you may believe that raw is ideal, I would put him back on whatever he was on, plus anything else like satin balls to keep his weight up, then maybe try again but with a help of someone more experienced. Even so, raw is not for everyone, I'd much rather see a dog eating a good quality kibble then imbalanced raw.


that's exactly the point....if a dog is not transitioning well, then i would absolutely recommend kibble/canned. put the weight on. try again or not. the health of the dog is paramount.

this dog was starved. not sick. the pics taken two weeks prior to going to bridget's house is proof the dog was in fine shape.


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## bridget246

meggels said:


> I mean obviously raw is ideal, but if a dog is simply not transitinoing well, and is getting to be so thin it's downright scary, then maybe you need to first bulk them up and make them healthy on a high quality kibble/canned/home cooked diet before they just keep losing SO MUCH WEIGHT that they look like an ASPCA commercial, or worse.


Quality kibble, I didn't know which one to pick. Really, I didn't. I didn't know what the results of a homecook meal would be so I didn't want to play with that with a dog who I was worried about. Just as worried as anyone else. 

It was 05-20-2012. Up until that point he was gaining a little weight back. Then he started to slide backwards. On 5-30 it turned so much worse. I stopped and tried to think of what I was doing wrong. After a few days I gave up. All my money was spent and I wasn't getting anywhere. So I suggested to Makv that I really needed some help on this. 



magicre said:


> that's exactly the point....if a dog is not transitioning well, then i would absolutely recommend kibble/canned. put the weight on. try again or not. the health of the dog is paramount.
> 
> this dog was starved. not sick. the pics taken two weeks prior to going to bridget's house is proof the dog was in fine shape.


I never seen Carlos like he was in those 2 weeks. I never seen it. I have never ever seen him like that. I was told he was 55 pounds. The dog that arrived to my house wasn't 55, he was 37. I know it because I weighed him. No I didn't take any proof of any of this.


----------



## magicre

as a raw feeder......if a dog becomes sick or doesn't transition well....there are measures to be taken...

when i first started, malia did not do well at all. we stopped.

immediately.

and home cooked for her until she got better.

any time someone comes into the raw section, if nothing else works....then we suggest putting the dog back on kibble....or canned or home cooking...

nothing is worth the health of the dog, be it raw, kibble, home cooked or canned.

in this case, i am convinced by looking at this dog, that he was starved....period. and there is nothing that will change my mind.

can't transition if no food is being given. so raw is not to blame. bridget246 is.


----------



## BearMurphy

it is very sad that carlos is in the condition he is in and it is clear it is the adopters fault. thank you Melissa for taking the dog back and getting him the vet care that he needs. we are all hoping for the best

i know no one would expect this to happen, but we should all learn a lesson from this. although a person on a forum may seem responsible/competent/caring/dedicated/etc you do not know them unless you have been in a long term friendship with them.

please if you want to adopt out an animal...charge a fee, do a vet reference check and a home visit. as much as we want to help people out and believe in the true good or competence of others, it is not always the case.


----------



## magicre

bridget246 said:


> Quality kibble, I didn't know which one to pick. Really, I didn't. I didn't know what the results of a homecook meal would be so I didn't want to play with that with a dog who I was worried about. Just as worried as anyone else.
> 
> It was 05-20-2012. Up until that point he was gaining a little weight back. Then he started to slide backwards. On 5-30 it turned so much worse. I stopped and tried to think of what I was doing wrong. After a few days I gave up. All my money was spent and I wasn't getting anywhere. So I suggested to Makv that I really needed some help on this.
> 
> 
> 
> I never seen Carlos like he was in those 2 weeks. I never seen it. I have never ever seen him like that. I was told he was 55 pounds. The dog that arrived to my house wasn't 55, he was 37. I know it because I weighed him. No I didn't take any proof of any of this.


keep diggin' the hole.

even ol' roy would have been better than giving air.

we have pics of THAT dog prior to you getting him. you are lying. and i'll continue to call you out on it.

you might get away with this act to others, but sorry, buddy, i've seen your kind come and go. 

you did this. you did this. you did this.

say it three times. you did this.

you could have fed him kibble. you could have fed him. period.

you did not.

that is all.

criminal.

i can only hope carlos survives you.


----------



## monkeys23

magicre said:


> the dog was starved. period.


Exactly. This is not okay. At all.

Carlos will very much be in my thoughts. I hope he makes nice slow gains and starts feeling better very soon. I hope its not too late.

I am kind of livid to see a dog like this to be honest. He should NEVER have gotten to this point.


----------



## BearMurphy

this is the first picture I saw of carlos
http://dogfoodchat.com/forum/introduce-yourself/14910-carlos.html#post182625
he is too skinny but not at death's door. there is no way he was 7 pounds from his current state per this picture


----------



## monkeys23

MollyWoppy said:


> You should rehome Bridget. I'm serious. If you say that she was thinner than Carlos then it's simply too much of a coincidence that two dogs in the same home are at deaths door.


I agree. As a GSD lover, it greatly upsets me that she is in the care of someone who did something like this to a dog in two months time. She and Carlos deserve worlds better than this abuse. And it is abuse. Straight up animal abuse. And it is not okay. I strongly suggest you abstain from animal ownership if this is how you care from them.

And I will say some other posts regarding management and training have raised red flags to me in the past, but I always try to be nice and educate people in hopes that they will be better owners.


----------



## magicre

BearMurphy said:


> this is the first picture I saw of carlos
> http://dogfoodchat.com/forum/introduce-yourself/14910-carlos.html#post182625
> he is too skinny but not at death's door. there is no way he was 7 pounds from his current state per this picture


exactly.

from april 9 through sunday last week. 

that is starvation.

you should be shot bridget 246. especially when you came to THIS forum.....with people whose hearts break when we clip nails too short.


----------



## monkeys23

You cannot claim not to know what commercial food to pick when you are on a forum with a whole freaking section section on quality commercial foods. That is just a blatant lie on your part. I'm sorry, but you have zero excuses.


----------



## Little Brown Jug

I, personally would like to see a current (with proof that it is current) picture of Bridget.


----------



## magicre

Little Brown Jug said:


> I, personally would like to see a current (with proof that it is current) picture of Bridget.


you and me both.

it is my understanding, however, that bridget, seen a few weeks ago, was a few pounds underweight....but nothing like carlos is.


----------



## BeagleCountry

Little Brown Jug said:


> I, personally would like to see a current (with proof that it is current) picture of Bridget.


Pictures from several angles with a newspaper that clearly shows the current date would be proof.


----------



## Scarlett_O'

BeagleCountry said:


> Pictures from several angles with a newspaper that clearly shows the current date would be proof.


And the dog wet....since she has thicker hair.


----------



## bridget246

monkeys23 said:


> You cannot claim not to know what commercial food to pick when you are on a forum with a whole freaking section section on quality commercial foods. That is just a blatant lie on your part. I'm sorry, but you have zero excuses.


If you choose to pick apart my words and look for lies then lies is all you will see. It goes back to past experiences and with the recent charges I ran out of money. Kibble in the past for me was one big guessing game that didn't get me anywhere.

I believe I have my own proof here. If the above pic was really 2 Weeks before I got him then something was clearly up and I worried he was going through the same thing Bridget went through so I went about fixing it the same way. Well not totally the same way because I worried about the increased risk of changing this way. 

I honestly feel like my largest mistake here was not posting pictures. I believe I pointed out in the past about feeling like I was starving Bridget. I did post pics. Not at her worse because I couldn't bear to take any. If I told a similar story to this before what need would I have to lie about it now? It doesn't benefit me at all.


----------



## IslandPaws4Raw

magicre said:


> you and me both.
> 
> it is my understanding, however, that bridget, seen a few weeks ago, was a few pounds underweight....but nothing like carlos is.


If she was seen only a few weeks ago, I would seriously be concerned about her condition NOW.


----------



## angelbears

Am I missing something here? On April 08, 2012, Carlos was re homed, then on April 09 there is pictures posted on this board showing a very skinny dog, IMO this dog was also neglected by his original owner. No way a dog should be in that condition period, unless it is under a vets care and being treated for some chronic condition. I thought I saw where the dog is going back to the original owner. I sure hope not.


----------



## Scarlett_O'

angelbears said:


> Am I missing something here? On April 08, 2012, Carlos was re homed, then on April 09 there is pictures posted on this board showing a very skinny dog, IMO this dog was also neglected by his original owner. No way a dog should be in that condition period, unless it is under a vets care and being treated for some chronic condition. I thought I saw where the dog is going back to the original owner. I sure hope not.


From the early April pictures yes he is thin.....but given 5-7 lbs and he would look amazing. 
He was not "very skinny" he was skinny/thin/needing some weight, yes....but not very skinny(those are VERY bad pictures, IMO) and he wasnt starved as the pictures show, and as the vet has stated him to have been by the.....person...who had him last. 

And also the dehydration is 1000% inexcusable. 
Just "doing poorly" on any food would NOT do this to any dog!!!


----------



## Nana52

I'm pretty confused myself about when the problem started, who had him when it started, who had him while he continued to deteriorate .... who, what, when, where??? Wherever it started and with whom, it's a crying shame that something wasn't done long before he got to this deplorable state. ANY FOOD would have been better than this. Hell, I once fed a dog vienna sausage (a terrible thing to give a dog, of course, but better than starving) for a short while until she got back to normal eating (each circumstance is different ..... maybe I don't know of what I speak) 

All I care about at this moment is that Carlos is in competent, caring hands and is getting the help that he so sorely needs.


----------



## NewYorkDogue

I may be way off track on this, but this syndrome is what came to mind when I think of the situation with both Carlos and Bridget in bridget246's household:
(Just substitute the world "child" with "dog", and some things start to link up, IMO)---


"Münchausen syndrome by proxy (MSbP or MBP) is a controversial term that is used to describe a behavior pattern in which a caregiver deliberately exaggerates, fabricates, and/or induces physical, psychological, behavioral, and/or mental health problems in those who are in their care.[1] Healthcare professionals in the UK prefer to use the term Fabricated or Induced Illness (FII).[2] With deception at its core, this behavior is an elusive, potentially lethal, and frequently misunderstood form of child abuse[3] or medical neglect[4] that has been difficult to define, detect and confirm.

The name "Münchausen syndrome by proxy" is derived from Münchausen syndrome, but it is important to distinguish one from the other, as they describe very different (but related) conditions. People with Münchausen syndrome have a profound need to assume the sick role, and will exaggerate complaints, falsify tests, and/or self-inflict illnesses.[5] MSbP perpetrators, by contrast, are willing to fulfill their need for positive attention by hurting their own child, thereby assuming the sick role by proxy. At times, they are also able to assume the hero role and garner still more positive attention, by appearing to care for and 'save' their child.[6]

Münchausen syndrome by proxy has evoked much confusion and controversy within medical and mental health communities since its initial description in the late 1970s. There is still no clear consensus between experts on the very definition of the condition; some consider MSbP a mental disorder, others, an abusive behavior. Even the name remains unsettled — "Münchausen syndrome by proxy" is the most common layman's term, but a host of alternative names have either been used or proposed. Within the United States, factitious disorder by proxy (FDP or FDbP) is the leading alternative, while in the United Kingdom, it is known as Fabricated or Induced Illness by Carers (FII).[7]

MSbP has also spawned much heated controversy within the legal and social services communities. In a handful of high-profile cases, mothers who have had multiple children die from sudden infant death syndrome have been declared to have MSbP. Based on MSbP testimony of an expert witness, they were tried for murder, convicted, and imprisoned for several years. That testimony was later impeached, resulting in acquittal of those defendants.[8]"


----------



## magicre

angelbears said:


> Am I missing something here? On April 08, 2012, Carlos was re homed, then on April 09 there is pictures posted on this board showing a very skinny dog, IMO this dog was also neglected by his original owner. No way a dog should be in that condition period, unless it is under a vets care and being treated for some chronic condition. I thought I saw where the dog is going back to the original owner. I sure hope not.


no. you are not missing anything. 

the dog probably had lost weight from the pics posted in the beginning to when bridget got him.

the situation is not a perfect one. no one is perfect.

mistakes may have been made. 

losing 5-7 pounds between the first pic and the pics in april is probably due to stress on the dog.

losing thirty more is due to starvation.

regardless, the dog was starved. that's the big picture.

we can pick apart all of the mistakes made from there to here.....and i'm quite sure the owner is kicking herself...actually, i know she is.

all i can say is what the vet said and what the current pictures say.

holes can be poked into every situation, but the reality is this.

the dog was starved under tyrone's care. starved.

he didn't have money. 

he didn't know which kibble to buy

he didn't know how to cook a home cooked meal.

so he fed air. how'd that work out for you and the dog, tyrone?


----------



## magicre

wait a minute.

tyrone.

you reached out before and white leo sent you money and you paid her back.

you now say you ran out of money.

with all of the help you asked for from the kind people on this board, did you not think that someone would not have sent you money 

TO FEED A DOG?


----------



## Makovach

angelbears said:


> Am I missing something here? On April 08, 2012, Carlos was re homed, then on April 09 there is pictures posted on this board showing a very skinny dog, IMO this dog was also neglected by his original owner. No way a dog should be in that condition period, unless it is under a vets care and being treated for some chronic condition. I thought I saw where the dog is going back to the original owner. I sure hope not.


You are not missing anything. 
Carlos was not neglected by Farrah, I can assure you that. He was well hydrated, he was fed, he was out to play and run. He was taken to the vet when need be. 

There is no way in hell that Carlos weighed only 37 lbs when Tyrone got him. He was 52-55lbs when he left (Would be better off closer to 60lbs). This dog went from thin, to emaciated. Yes, Carlos is back with Farrah, who is doing her best to care for him with the help of vets and family and friends. He has another vet appointment tmrw at 4pm. She is very capable of caring for him and getting him healthy. She would never treat a dog badly. He was thin, but he is a hyperactive boxer who runs constantly. He also doesn't (well atleast he didnt) like kibble. It would be hell getting him to eat in one sitting. She would mix things on his food and if she was lucky, by the end of the day he would have eaten two bowls (4 cups). At this point, he will eat what ever is in front of him. He acts as a dog that is starving trying to get what ever they can. She is feeding him every 2-3 hours and keeping him from getting to everything else. Poor guy will eat anything that looks edible.


----------



## bridget246

I did weigh him and he was 37. I had wondered why you told me he was 55.


----------



## angelbears

magicre said:


> no. you are not missing anything.
> 
> the dog probably had lost weight from the pics posted in the beginning to when bridget got him.
> 
> the situation is not a perfect one. no one is perfect.
> 
> mistakes may have been made.
> 
> losing 5-7 pounds between the first pic and the pics in april is probably due to stress on the dog.
> 
> losing thirty more is due to starvation.
> 
> regardless, the dog was starved. that's the big picture.
> 
> we can pick apart all of the mistakes made from there to here.....and i'm quite sure the owner is kicking herself...actually, i know she is.
> 
> all i can say is what the vet said and what the current pictures say.
> 
> holes can be poked into every situation, but the reality is this.
> 
> the dog was starved under tyrone's care. starved.
> 
> he didn't have money.
> 
> he didn't know which kibble to buy
> 
> he didn't know how to cook a home cooked meal.
> 
> so he fed air. how'd that work out for you and the dog, tyrone?


I'm not trying to pick holes. What Tyrone did is despicable and should be prosecuted. I'm more concerned with Carlos. After seeing the pictures from the 9th of April, that dog was already "too skinny" and Tyrone had only had him for one day. I am concerned that sending him back to the original owner is not a good ideal.


----------



## liquid

Melissa, I hope that you and Farrah will contact the proper authorities about this.
I dont think anyone could look at those photos on the first page and try to justify Carlos' condition. Another dog is still living in Tyrone's household, along with a small child. 
Something needs to be done.


----------



## Makovach

I don't want everyone to think Carlos was abused by Farrah. He was far from. Yeah, after being switched from raw to kibble, he didn't eat well and she was mixing in everything from shredded chicken to tuna to yogurt to get him to eat. And somedays he just wouldn't eat much. Thats why he got thin. But he was thin, NOT Emaciated!! You could see ribs. But you could no see tendons. You couldn't see veins. You couldn't see the whole rib 90% the way around. His hips, his spine, his chest bones, EVERYTHING about this dog is sticking out! You can hide your fist between his hip bones under his tail! There was no underlying health problems as Tyrone stated when he took him to the vet after getting him. It was a matter of feeding him and getting him to eat. The boy never turned down a raw meal. He would eat it with enthusiasm. Some times choaking it down so fast he would have to bring it up and re eat it! He was on PMR for six months while with Farrah with not one single issue.


----------



## lovemydogsalways

Carlos, I pray you get better buddy and can gain the weight you need.


----------



## Makovach

bridget246 said:


> I did weigh him and he was 37. I had wondered why you told me he was 55.


There is no way in hell that you could add seven lbs to this dog and be at 37lbs and have him look like he did in your pictures. He has already gained three lbs. In just FOUR days. That was with just feeding him every two to three hours, feeding kibble as I Suggested to you a few times. And giving him water, liver broth and pedialyte. He lost way more than 7lbs. He has lost 30lbs in total. 25+ being from the time he was with you. There is no reason for this. You can count the vertebra in his NECK!


----------



## Krista

Wow. I do not post here often... but that is just sickening. I do hope poor Carlos makes it.. he has a long recovery ahead of him. Poor boy. :frown: I really do feel bad for Carlos.


----------



## lauren43

angelbears said:


> I'm not trying to pick holes. What Tyrone did is despicable and should be prosecuted. I'm more concerned with Carlos. After seeing the pictures from the 9th of April, that dog was already "too skinny" and Tyrone had only had him for one day. I am concerned that sending him back to the original owner is not a good ideal.


I disagree with this. Sure he was underweight in the April 9th pictures, but he was not emaciated. Raw can be a tough transition for some dogs and they loose weight, my dog did. Avery was down to 53lbs last year, it took us an entire year and he is finally 60lbs. Some dogs have high metabolisms, and its a juggling act to get enough food into their system in order to gain weight without making them sick. I think Farrah was heading in the right direction for Carlos, but then her situation no longer allowed her to keep him. 

After that I don't know what happened. For me its odd that both dogs had issues transitioning, and both got so skinny they were near death. You have to get to a point where you look at the dog in your care and you think "something isn't right?" "This isn't working, we should try something, anything else." The best proof is going to be how fast Carlos can gain weight now, if it's some underlying health issue, Carlos will not gain weight, if it was shear neglect (which looking at him, its hard to believe it wasn't), he will put on the lbs with no issues.

Its hard to be on the internet, looking through a computer, believing that everyone here is truthful and that they all love their dogs at least as much as you love yours..but then when something like this happens you realize that on the internet you can be who ever you want people to think you are. I could never fake the person I am, so its hard for me to understand there are people out there who can.


----------



## bridget246

lauren43 said:


> I disagree with this. Sure he was underweight in the April 9th pictures, but he was not emaciated. Raw can be a tough transition for some dogs and they loose weight, my dog did. Avery was down to 53lbs last year, it took us an entire year and he is finally 60lbs. Some dogs have high metabolisms, and its a juggling act to get enough food into their system in order to gain weight without making them sick. I think Farrah was heading in the right direction for Carlos, but then her situation no longer allowed her to keep him.
> 
> After that I don't know what happened. For me its odd that both dogs had issues transitioning, and both got so skinny they were near death. You have to get to a point where you look at the dog in your care and you think "something isn't right?" "This isn't working, we should try something, anything else." The best proof is going to be how fast Carlos can gain weight now, if it's some underlying health issue, Carlos will not gain weight, if it was shear neglect (which looking at him, its hard to believe it wasn't), he will put on the lbs with no issues.
> 
> Its hard to be on the internet, looking through a computer, believing that everyone here is truthful and that they all love their dogs at least as much as you love yours..but then when something like this happens you realize that on the internet you can be who ever you want people to think you are. I could never fake the person I am, so its hard for me to understand there are people out there who can.


Bridget did put on weight fast after her recovery. It was a sudden recovery that just kept going once it finally hit. I did it all based on the trust and knowledge I was giving here. My success and mistakes were all based off the same things. I was never fake to anyone. I did it. I followed the wrong advice. I did it. I asked for help when it became very clear that what I was doing wasn't working. Honestly if I am as bad as a guy as you guys make me out to be why would I ever bother asking for help? Why would I take any of the steps I took? 

I did it all because of a blind trust from a successful experience. Without having the pictures nobody couldn't have known what my blind trust was in. It was all a big misunderstanding and Carlos was caught in the middle of that. And for that I am deeply sorry and I hope he makes a full recovery. 

If I fed Bridget nothing but chicken for a week straight I'm sure she will lose around 10 pounds if not more. I'm sure she would, a week, every week. Not because I wasn't feeding either. I wish that wasn't so largely placed against me. I will take blame for the things I did do. But I did feed. I did it. I did what I thought was best and when I realized I couldn't do it I allowed another to help. If she didn't help at the time that she did I still feel that Carlos would be on his way to recovery because on the last day he was looking like he was. I saw the same thing when Bridget hit her recovery. I'll post a pic of her later. 

Please, blame all kinds of things on me if you like. I don't care but I did fed to the best of my knowledge. I did not spend all of these months lying to anyone. If I did I would have had 0 success in anything. The proof would be all over the place if what you guys are accusing me was really true. Stop and think about it. I'm not saying I'm not at fault anywhere. I have learned from this and taken much away from it.

Yes I've now been 2 for 2 in my translation. The first time you guys advice worked. Sorry for making a second attempt at it.


----------



## meggels

You didn't have money to feed him so someone from here had to send you money??? Why would you get a second dog????


----------



## magicre

bridget246 said:


> I did weigh him and he was 37. I had wondered why you told me he was 55.


you speak with fork-ed tongue.


----------



## magicre

angelbears said:


> I'm not trying to pick holes. What Tyrone did is despicable and should be prosecuted. I'm more concerned with Carlos. After seeing the pictures from the 9th of April, that dog was already "too skinny" and Tyrone had only had him for one day. I am concerned that sending him back to the original owner is not a good ideal.


the difference is she is feeding actual food. he fed nothing.


----------



## magicre

bridget246 said:


> Bridget did put on weight fast after her recovery. It was a sudden recovery that just kept going once it finally hit. I did it all based on the trust and knowledge I was giving here. My success and mistakes were all based off the same things. I was never fake to anyone. I did it. I followed the wrong advice. I did it. I asked for help when it became very clear that what I was doing wasn't working. Honestly if I am as bad as a guy as you guys make me out to be why would I ever bother asking for help? Why would I take any of the steps I took?
> 
> I did it all because of a blind trust from a successful experience. Without having the pictures nobody couldn't have known what my blind trust was in. It was all a big misunderstanding and Carlos was caught in the middle of that. And for that I am deeply sorry and I hope he makes a full recovery.
> 
> If I fed Bridget nothing but chicken for a week straight I'm sure she will lose around 10 pounds if not more. I'm sure she would, a week, every week. Not because I wasn't feeding either. I wish that wasn't so largely placed against me. I will take blame for the things I did do. But I did feed. I did it. I did what I thought was best and when I realized I couldn't do it I allowed another to help. If she didn't help at the time that she did I still feel that Carlos would be on his way to recovery because on the last day he was looking like he was. I saw the same thing when Bridget hit her recovery. I'll post a pic of her later.
> 
> Please, blame all kinds of things on me if you like. I don't care but I did fed to the best of my knowledge. I did not spend all of these months lying to anyone. If I did I would have had 0 success in anything. The proof would be all over the place if what you guys are accusing me was really true. Stop and think about it. I'm not saying I'm not at fault anywhere. I have learned from this and taken much away from it.
> 
> Yes I've now been 2 for 2 in my translation. The first time you guys advice worked. Sorry for making a second attempt at it.


which part of the word starvation do you not understand?

now you are blaming this forum for your failures because if you like, i can pick out the posts where you did not listen, where you made bridget sicker, where you did things to carlos that shut this poor dog down.

want to re visit the training section? where he hadn't been in your house for any length of time and you were already trying to play dog whisperer with him, with your grand commincation skills.

you don't think any of us remember the advice not followed, the roads not taken?

the time we spent and now you blame your failure on us?

i don't think so.

you are lying. and there are plenty of posts with your long windedness to prove it.

not only are you lying, you have the words of an abuser.

i worry about bridget, your baby and your girlfriend......

i've seen too many of your ilk not to recognise who you are.


----------



## magicre

NewYorkDogue said:


> I may be way off track on this, but this syndrome is what came to mind when I think of the situation with both Carlos and Bridget in bridget246's household:
> (Just substitute the world "child" with "dog", and some things start to link up, IMO)---
> 
> 
> "Münchausen syndrome by proxy (MSbP or MBP) is a controversial term that is used to describe a behavior pattern in which a caregiver deliberately exaggerates, fabricates, and/or induces physical, psychological, behavioral, and/or mental health problems in those who are in their care.[1] Healthcare professionals in the UK prefer to use the term Fabricated or Induced Illness (FII).[2] With deception at its core, this behavior is an elusive, potentially lethal, and frequently misunderstood form of child abuse[3] or medical neglect[4] that has been difficult to define, detect and confirm.
> 
> The name "Münchausen syndrome by proxy" is derived from Münchausen syndrome, but it is important to distinguish one from the other, as they describe very different (but related) conditions. People with Münchausen syndrome have a profound need to assume the sick role, and will exaggerate complaints, falsify tests, and/or self-inflict illnesses.[5] MSbP perpetrators, by contrast, are willing to fulfill their need for positive attention by hurting their own child, thereby assuming the sick role by proxy. At times, they are also able to assume the hero role and garner still more positive attention, by appearing to care for and 'save' their child.[6]
> 
> Münchausen syndrome by proxy has evoked much confusion and controversy within medical and mental health communities since its initial description in the late 1970s. There is still no clear consensus between experts on the very definition of the condition; some consider MSbP a mental disorder, others, an abusive behavior. Even the name remains unsettled — "Münchausen syndrome by proxy" is the most common layman's term, but a host of alternative names have either been used or proposed. Within the United States, factitious disorder by proxy (FDP or FDbP) is the leading alternative, while in the United Kingdom, it is known as Fabricated or Induced Illness by Carers (FII).[7]
> 
> MSbP has also spawned much heated controversy within the legal and social services communities. In a handful of high-profile cases, mothers who have had multiple children die from sudden infant death syndrome have been declared to have MSbP. Based on MSbP testimony of an expert witness, they were tried for murder, convicted, and imprisoned for several years. That testimony was later impeached, resulting in acquittal of those defendants.[8]"


ya know...i've only seen a real case of this twice in my life......ironic how bridget sounds familiar to this diagnosis.


----------



## Dude and Bucks Mamma

Tyrone, if I were to truly say to you what I wanted to say I would be banned in a heartbeat and I have never been in trouble on this forum. I am almost willing to get myself banned just to say the things I want to say. But, for the sake of my dogs, I will refrain and stay a member of this forum.

At 37 lbs this dog would not look much better than he does now. For you to try to say that Carlos was 37 lbs when you got him is a downright lie. If he was 30 lbs when his owner got him back and he was 37 lbs when you got him... How is there such a drastic difference?

WHY is this dog dehydrated??? WHen a dog is dehydrated there are measures you can take. Hell, MY dog was dehydrated two weeks ago and you know what I did? I used a turkey baster to feed him liver broth and Pedialyte every hour on the hour and he didn't lose more than a pound or two the whole time he was sick. I didn't let him STAY dehydrated. Had he been sick for more than 48 hours he would have been rushed to the vet, no questions asked. 

So maybe Carlos IS one of those dogs who doesn't maintain weight very well. Buck isn't either. Right now he is about 4 lbs underweight. No big deal. It'll only take me a few days to get him back to looking great. Like Boone's owner, weight is a daily struggle with Buck. He can drop weight like nobody's business. That is no excuse to let him look like a furry skeleton! BECAUSE Buck isn't an easy keeper I make sure I take the extra precautions to keep weight on him. 

You didn't know what kibble to feed??? Do you REALLY think we are stupid enough to accept that as a valid excuse for starving a dog? THERE IS S WHOLE KIBBLE SECTION HERE OF SOME OF THE MOST KNOWLEDGEABLE KIBBLE FEEDERS I HAVE EVER SEEN ON THIS VERY FORUM! To say that you didn't buy kibble simply because you didn't know which one to buy is a straight up lie. You have one of the very best forums right here. They could have had several suggestions for you within minutes. Any of them would have been better than what you did.

You couldn't afford to feed him??? WHY did you get another dog if you couldn't afford to feed him? If that was the case why didn't you tell his original owner and work with her to find him a new home with someone who COULD feed him? My husband and I live off of his military pay. That's not much. But guess what? We get by just fine! If necessary, Nick and I go without so that those in our care eat as they should and so that they get enough to eat.

I worry about Bridget. You, sir, should clearly not own any dog. Bridget hasn't been seen in weeks. How do we know she doesn't look like Carlos? How did you possibly manage to cause two dogs to lose SO much weight that they were knocking on Death's door? That is clearly user error and, when Carlos started going downhill, you should have gotten help. When he dropped his first 5 lbs you should have gotten help. You may have posted on DFC but we had no pictures. I thought that he was just a bit underweight. I had no idea you were trying to get help from a dog that could have been the poster dog for an ASPCA commercial. 

Rehome Bridget. You should not have any dog in your home especially since you seem to think that, if you don't have the money, the dogs don't need to eat. I am sure there are plenty of GSD rescues in your area. I bet they would be very happy to find Bridget a better home.


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## Pip

Hello everyone, my name is Farrah and I am Carlos' origional owner and now current care taker. I have skimmed through what everyone has said here and will say what I need to say and let you decide.

I rehomed Carlos because I am only allowed to have 1 dog in my current housing situation. I have recently just moved with my Parents to a new house(I am an adult, but one trying to prepare for college and just starting out with a good, quality job). I felt that it would be best to find Carlos someone who is active as he has the most energy I have ever seen in a dog. I would take him on mile upon mile long hikes in the woods, free run, and he would still be doing circles around us when we got home. 

I used to have my guys on raw and they both did amazing. Carlos was the best I had ever seen. When we found out we had found a new house, my mother asked me to put my guys back on kibble because I also had a new job coming which would require me to be on call 24/7 and she and my stepfather felt uncomfortable feeding raw for me when I would work through their meals. I am just so greatful that they understand that I still want my guys on the closest thing to raw and said ok, as long as they were fine with me feeding raw additives to their diets. 

Carlos did loose some weight for me in the transition from our old house and from raw, but not a ton. He lost enough that I was concerned, yes, but he was still maintaining and hydrated. 

I was told that the person who adopted him was looking for a dog, and yes, I admit it, I jumped the gun. I heard they fed raw, participated in obediance, and was looking into agility. I thought, grreat! Someone to fit Carlos' activity level!

I will not speak bad about the person because I do not want to live in the past. Carlos is to important for that. I don't want Carlos to pick up on anger or sorrow because of what happened to him. I want Carlos to thrive and get better from here. So I am trying my hardest to let go of any emotions other than good ones for Carlos. He is a very sensitive dog when it comes to emotions. So much so, that if he thinks he did somehting wrong, he will pout all day until you tell him otherwise. 

Currently Carlos is on California Naturals as it is a limited ingrediant feed. I figured the less his stomach would have to fight through, the better at this point. He gets yogurt, probiotics, enzymes, and other things to help fill in the nutritional needs. 

I feed Earthborn Holistics grain free in my household and will be switching him back to that once I feel his body is ready for it. I sent some home with him when he was rehomed. 

It was stated that I was aware of the situation. The only things I was aware of is what Makovach told me as I rarely ever recieved any imput from the adopter. 

Carlos is home now, and I will gladley share pictures as he progresses. I saw that someone stated that I mistreated him. Yes I was concerned about his weight when he lived with me. I was in contact with a vet about it quite often and they believe he will always be naturally thin and to keep adding raw to his diet to try to help him finish his kibble everyday. Do believe me that it tore me apart inside to see him even that thin. 

If anyone has any suggestion on other things that could help my boy recover, please let me know! I have already gotten some great advice from some awesome people here!(You know who you are!). 

I will let everyone know how his appointment goes tomorrow. I don't have internet, so Makovach may have to update you all for me. 

Again, I will not hold grudges because I feel my heart needs to be focused completely on Carlos at this time. I know crying over him won't help his healing, and I think I've lost enough tears over this to last a lifetime.


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## magicre

hi, farrah. 

i have only the best of wishes for you and for carlos.

in your care, with makovach, liz and i at your beck and call, we will all go beyond this horrific event and move on to a happier time when carlos is once again filled with life.

this person is of no import any longer......a pimple on the face of this earth and insignificant.

it is carlos' time now....and i believe he will thrive.


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## Chocx2

You can only do your best for Carlos, good luck.


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