# Red paws? Nutro to blame or skin condition?



## Whiskey's Momma (Sep 23, 2009)

Sorry this is long, I will gladly accept any comments or ideas of what you think is wrong.

Our dog was originally on Nutro Natural Choice Chicken and Oatmeal. We was doing fine on this food. While at Petsmart a Nutro rep was telling me about their new Nutro Ultra formula so I switched him. About a week later I noticed his paws, especially his back paws were getting red, they started get worse and were getting raw. After doing some research on food I learned that Nutro was not a good food. So I started my research and changed him over to Wellness. He seems to really like his new food.For a while it looked like his paws were healing and I was convinced that it was the new nutro food we tried.

Within the last few days it seems like it is coming back. I had been using Malaseb shampoo which is for skin infections.yeast infections because I thought that may have been it. I have an appointment at the vet on Wednesday morning. 

I started him on the new Nutro Ultra formula somewhere around the 18th of August. By August the 28th his paws were raw...I remember because I boarded him for a 5 days and his feet were a little pink a couple of days before I dropped him off. I switched his food to Welleness that following week around the 2nd of september. I also started using the Malaseb shampoo and within a week his feet looked like they were healing by the end of September his feet were normal looking. Just in the last few days they seem to be getting worse.....I haven't been using the shampoo everyday on his paws since I have run out and it is unavailable from the manufactuer. 

At this point I don't know if it was the food or not. I don't think he caught anything at the kennel because they were already pink to begin with.

This is the new Nutro we used:

Chicken Meal, Whole Brown Rice, Ground Rice, Rice Bran, Chicken, Lamb Meal, Salmon Meal, Chicken Fat (preserved with mixed Tocopherols, a source of Vitamin E), Natural Flavors, Flaxseed, Oatmeal, Dehydrated Alfalfa Meal, Dried Plain Beet Pulp, Soybean Oil (preserved with mixed Tocopherols, a source of Vitamin E), Sunflower Oil (preserved with mixed Tocopherols, a source of Vitamin E), Fish Oil (preserved with mixed Tocopherols, a source of Vitamin E), Potassium Chloride, Egg Product, Tomato Pomace, Dried Pomegranate, Dried Blueberry, Dried Avocado, Dried Cranberry, Dried Pumpkin, Dried Spinach, Dried Carrot, Salt, Choline Chloride, Taurine, Vitamin E Supplement, Zinc Sulfate, Zinc Proteinate, Ferrous Sulfate, L-Carnitine, L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of Vitamin C), Biotin, Copper Proteinate, Niacin Supplement, Potassium Iodide, Calcium Pantothenate, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement (source of Vitamin B2), Thiamine Mononitrate (source of Vitamin B1), Sodium Selenite, Beta Carotene, Manganese Proteinate, Manganous Oxide, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (source of Vitamin B6), Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex (source of Vitamin K activity), Folic Acid, Vitamin D3 Supplement.

The old Nutro formula we used only had chicken as the meat product. So I am thinking he is maybe allergic to Lamb? Or maybe he just has a skin problem?

He gets homemade salmon, boiled chicken breast ot Deli fresh meals which contain chicken Deli Fresh - Natural Dog Food .....he gets the chicken bits. I also sometimes give him wellness canned chicken. I switch his meats around so he doesn't get bored. Also I give him carrots, blueberries, probiotics, apples, fish oil. I mix thse things with his kibble from wellness whcih I get the chicken formula (purple bag)

Any suggestions? I have a feeling the vet will not give me good answers and suggest prescription dog food. Also does anyone know how much an allergy test will cost?


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## rannmiller (Jun 27, 2008)

To the best of my knowledge, allergy tests are fairly expensive and can be rather inaccurate/inconclusive. 

Things I would try first before going to a vet: 
1. Get a wound lotion specifically for dogs (I use this one by Natur-Vet that I got at Petsmart and it worked well for my pup when she got a sore spot on her paw)
2. Try tea tree oil, I hear it works wonders as well
3. cut out the fruits and veggies in your dog's diet that you add to it
4. try a grain free food. Most dogs end up being allergic or having an intolerance to grains and veggies.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

The redness is from him chewing and licking at his feet because they itch. The fur turns red from their saliva. Notice that their fur around their mouth is usually tinged red too.

Sounds to me like you have a classic case of a food allergy. I would highly recommend starting on a grain free food, if not a raw diet. Most food bourne allergies are due to grains in dog food.

He could also be itchy from some allergen in the environment as well. Fall time is one of the worst times of year for allergies in dogs.


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## Whiskey's Momma (Sep 23, 2009)

Ranmiller: Thank you for your suggestions

He has been getting fruits and veggies in his food since he was about 6 months old, he absolutly loves carrots. I will try the tea tree oil suggestion, I have some somewhere because it has anti-infection properties. I have bought anti itch spray, I am not at home but I have the pink brand at petsmart 3-way cream which might be from Nutri-vet. Good suggestion on the grain free food...I don't know where I would get it in this area. The only natural pet food store we have is Natural Pet Center - Fargo, ND andI dont see any grain free food. Petco has a better selection than petsmart when it comes to food. I don't think Petco has grain free. I hate to take him off the wellness because he seems to like it, he eats it plain in the morning.

Are veggies bad for dogs?

Thank youi


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## Whiskey's Momma (Sep 23, 2009)

Danemomma08:

Yes I am thinking more and more that maybe grain free is the way to go.

The strange thing is that he's not licking or biting his paws this time...from what I have seen. He was licking and biting before in early september.

Now to find a grain free food in our area..........


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## rannmiller (Jun 27, 2008)

veggies aren't necessary for dogs, they will simply cause bigger and looser stools. Claybuster also mentioned that fruits and veggies have chemicals in them (naturally occurring) that are toxic to dogs and cats if they build up over time. Not sure of the legitimacy of that statement but another reason not o feed them IMO. 

And luckily for you, PetCo does sell a grain free food and it just so happens to be made by Wellness. It's the Wellness Core brand. I had my dog on it for a bit before going raw and she did pretty decently on it. And since you have Petsmart in your area you could also try Blue Buffalo Wilderness which is also grain-free.


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## Whiskey's Momma (Sep 23, 2009)

Wait I think they have Evo available in grain free.....=)


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## Whiskey's Momma (Sep 23, 2009)

Rannmiller:

Thank you, I looked on the Petco website and they do sell core, I am hoping all Petco's carry this item. I do not remember seeing it at the store. After my vet appointment I will likely change his food....once again. I am not going to give him an more carrots,apples or blueberries with his food. Although I do see that the Wellness Core contains apples and blueberries, I will stop feeding him these since the core probaly does not contain a large amount.

I called our local pet food center and they also carry:


Envo
Instinct
Taste of the wild
barking at the moon


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## chowder (Sep 7, 2008)

My little dog has bad allergies and is chewing her feet constantly this time of year. It happens every fall, plus she has food allergies so there are both things to consider. Evo is the only grain free kibble she can eat because it has no salmon but it's a little rich for her. She eats canned Wellness Venison and Sweet potato which is grain free, among some other canned foods. If your dog eat canned food, Wellness makes several that are grain free. 

I have also read that to cut down on seasonal pollen allergies this time of year you can wipe off their paws every time they come in the house and that keeps them from bringing in a lot of allergens and then licking their feet and ingesting them. We have a little box of pet wipes by the back door to wipe her off with when she comes in. That might help also. Good luck!


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## EnglishBullTerriers (Sep 10, 2008)

Does your petfood store have Wellness Core?? That is one of the foods that I feed. Titus LOVES it. It is 90%+ grain free. (you can't put 100% on any food as grain free because if you read closely, they all have something! 
EVO is another good one, but Titus didn't like it much and he lost a little more weight on it. He does well on the BlueBuffalo Wilderness, BG red meat (but it is little kibbles.), Wellness Core, and Orijen All Breed. Those are the ones that he has done the best on. 
You can even sometimes ask some of the smaller pet stores and places if they would be willing to put in a special order. I found someone that would do that for me.
Also, not to be an echo, but all of these kibbles that I listed, have those additional items in them. None of the fruits and veggies are needed in the diet so you really aren't doing anything when you feed it. I will give my dogs carrots as treats. That way they still get to eat something that they enjoy, but they don't get fat off of them!  The only thing that you can keep would be the fish oil. I am sure that isn't something that you want to hear, but you are not giving anything but the same basic idea of feeding cotton without the effect of the bowel problems. It isn't doing anything. 
Hope all works out!


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## Whiskey's Momma (Sep 23, 2009)

Petco has Wellness core but they only have the small size available. Yes the carrots started out as treats also but then I started adding it to his dry kiddle to get him to be more interested in it. 

Once I get some info from the vet, I think I will buy the small bag of core at petco and then ask our local pet food store to start carrying it. He gets wellness canned food 1-2 times a week.

Have to wait and see what happens....thanks for all the suggestions everyone!

I will also look into the paw wipes =)


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## Whiskey's Momma (Sep 23, 2009)

Went to the vet this morning they took samples of his skin from his paws, near his eyes and underneath his mouth. Tests came back clear of any parasites, mites and other stuff. So this is not an infection or yeast issue.

He thinks it is an allergy due to food or enviornment. He put us on Benadryl and prenisone (excuse my spelling). I myself have been on prenisone off and on throughtout the years and I know it's not a good medication. I gave it to him after the appointment we will see how he does. Anyone ever been prescribed this for their dog?

He said not to change his food yet because he has been on the wellness for a month and he said it isn't enough time. If he does not improve then he suggests I give him a grain free food


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## chowder (Sep 7, 2008)

My litle dog has had prednisone prescribed for her allergies (I"ve been on it too). You want to avoid it as much as possible while still making your dog comfortable. Prednison in large quantities can lead to cataracts, overweight, and Cushings disease. My little dog has cataracts and they think she may have Cushings disease and she has only been on the prednisone a few times. 

For short term it will cause more drinking, eating, and peeing. Hopefully once you break the itch cycle, you won't have to give it to your dog anymore. I have had my little one on Benadryl for a week and it has helped more then prendisone did for her and it is suppose to be extremely safe to use. It just makes her a little sleepy during the day. I have also picked up some shampoo that has lidocaine in it and that has helped her a lot. I rub it on her worst itchy spots and leave it on for a few minutes before I rinse it off. I have some lidocaine spray that I put on afterwards and it seems to help although she hates it! You can pick them up at any petstore.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Whiskey's Momma said:


> Went to the vet this morning they took samples of his skin from his paws, near his eyes and underneath his mouth. Tests came back clear of any parasites, mites and other stuff. So this is not an infection or yeast issue.
> 
> He thinks it is an allergy due to food or enviornment. He put us on Benadryl and prenisone (excuse my spelling). I myself have been on prenisone off and on throughtout the years and I know it's not a good medication. I gave it to him after the appointment we will see how he does. Anyone ever been prescribed this for their dog?
> 
> He said not to change his food yet because he has been on the wellness for a month and he said it isn't enough time. If he does not improve then he suggests I give him a grain free food


I would just skip the whole prednisone step and switch to a grain free food. Pred is used for chemotherapy cancer treatments. Its really not a drug that you want your dog to take on a regular basis. Chowder went over some of the side effects. I wouldn't suggest skipping the pred if he were chewing holes in his skin, but from what your previous posts have stated, I would say that you are safe to not use it at all.

Yes, fall is a heavy time of year for allergens, but I would guess that a lot of the itching is due to the food being heavy on the grains. Pred will help with the itching but as soon as you stop using it the itching will come back. 

Better nutrition will be better for your dog in the long run anyways. You will still notice itching during the switch from the original food to the grain free, and for a while afterwards. But after a while on the new food you should see improvement. At least if it is a food allergy. If he's still itchy after you switch, it very well could be an environmental allergy that he is sensitive to.

Good luck and keep us posted :wink:


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## Whiskey's Momma (Sep 23, 2009)

I think I will give him 5 doses and then make them "disapear"....my husband always thinks that we should follow doctors orders. So I will have to make him think that they are still being taken

Taking fish oil in larger doses has an anti-anflamatory effect. For humans that amount is 3,000 mg...knowing this I asked the vet today and he said I could give 3,000 miligrams. I have always given him 1,000 miligrams. I will keep up with the benadryl. 

When I have taken the Prednisone I have felt speedy, gained weight, puffy, thirsty, oh yeah and constant hunger. I don't want these symptoms for my dog or the others you mentioned.

He was prescribed 20mg of prednisone which is what I have been prescribed....he is an 89 pound dog.......golden retriever/border collie mix. He gave us a two month supply...which when I have taken it for my back it's only been 5-7 days worth.

Also debating if I should give him turmeric/curcumin because that is really good for imflamation. But I will have to see if that herb is safe for dogs.

Thanks for all the info!


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## EnglishBullTerriers (Sep 10, 2008)

I wonder who it was that said something about Zyrtec? Does anyone know if that would be an option for dogs? I know that we use it at work, be I work with monkeys and I don't think that a monkey and dog are exactly the same.  That would be like Benadryl but without the drowsyness.
Thanks!


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## Whiskey's Momma (Sep 23, 2009)

*Whiskey update*

Just bought a small bag of the wellness core (our petco does not carry the larger sizes) I am still mixing it with his other wellness to get him adjusted to the new food.

I have also had to switch all of his treats but luckily grain free was easier to find than I thought. 

His itching has stopped with the prednisone, tomorrow is his last dose. There is no way I am going to keep him on it for two months!


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Whiskey's Momma said:


> Just bought a small bag of the wellness core (our petco does not carry the larger sizes) I am still mixing it with his other wellness to get him adjusted to the new food.
> 
> I have also had to switch all of his treats but luckily grain free was easier to find than I thought.
> 
> His itching has stopped with the prednisone, tomorrow is his last dose. There is no way I am going to keep him on it for two months!



He will most likely revert right back to itching when he is done with the pred unfortunately. But hopefully you will see some improvement with the switch to grain free. It is a gradual change, so keep at it. It takes a while for all the allergens to get out of his system!


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## 1605 (May 27, 2009)

Whiskey's Momma said:


> I think I will give him 5 doses and then make them "disapear"....my husband always thinks that we should follow doctors orders. So I will have to make him think that they are still being taken
> 
> Taking fish oil in larger doses has an anti-anflamatory effect. For humans that amount is 3,000 mg...knowing this I asked the vet today and he said I could give 3,000 miligrams. I have always given him 1,000 miligrams. I will keep up with the benadryl.
> 
> ...


Whoah! 

There is a reason why the vet prescribed the prednisone: it's the fastest way to reduce the inflammation & itching. While two months does seem excessive, don't you think you should discuss this issue with the vet before arbitrarily deciding how much to give the dog & for how long? Usually prednisone is given in a specific regimen (x amount for day 1 x 1/2 for day 2, etc.) so just giving him what you think is a proper dose for a certain length of time may not be the best or most effective way to administer it.

Although I have worked in a pharmacy & have several friends who are pharmacists, I'm not a pharmacist nor a vet. But I see many people on here who balk at medication simply because they don't like their dog being prescribed "a drug". However, giving h/h herbs or something similar is the same thing because it still is broken down by the body into chemicals. That's not to say that some chemical compositions are different than others, but can the small quantities of the necessary chemical in the "natural product" give the same results of the concentrated amount that's in "the drug"?

I'm the first person to question medications or procedures. But shouldn't it be a dialog between you & your pet's healthcare professional to figure out how best to treat h/h?

Yeah, I know... just spouting off....


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## Whiskey's Momma (Sep 23, 2009)

Submariner:

Thanks, I know that some people don't like medications because they are prescribed. I wouldn't have such a problem if he had been prescribed something else. I am just scared that something bad might happen to him because of the prednisone. I did ask the doctor if I could take him off if he had bad side effects and he said yes. He has not had bad side effects that I know of except he is hungry all the time...I know this because he eats his kibble dry without added meat......which he never does unless he is starving. He also drinks a lot of water.

I have not given him any herbs as of yet. And yes herbs can work similar to drugs. Some drugs come from herbs, and herbs can also have side effects like prescription drugs do. I guess I rather take him off the prednisone sooner than later. I gave him a dose today.....and have not decided if I will give him more tomorrow. 

I have been thinking of giving him yucca. It seems that yucca has a similar affect that prednisone has. This is what I have found: Yucca contains steroidal saponins, which are nature's most powerful anti-inflammatory agents. It has been clinically proven to rapidly promote relief from symptoms similar to steroid medication.

Ayone ever use Yucca?


Oh yeah and the vet did say to give him 1 20 mg tablet a day which is exactly what I have been doing. So far I have been following the vets orders.


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## jenh22 (Sep 22, 2009)

Before you stop the prednisone check to see if the vet wants to do a taper.

Sudden withdrawal from prednisone can cause serious problems even after taking it for a short time.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Whiskey's Momma said:


> Submariner:
> 
> Thanks, I know that some people don't like medications because they are prescribed. I wouldn't have such a problem if he had been prescribed something else. I am just scared that something bad might happen to him because of the prednisone. I did ask the doctor if I could take him off if he had bad side effects and he said yes. He has not had bad side effects that I know of except he is hungry all the time...I know this because he eats his kibble dry without added meat......which he never does unless he is starving. He also drinks a lot of water.
> 
> ...


What you can try instead of taking him off it cold turkey is doing a tapered dose. Give him a half tablet once daily and see how it goes. If his side effects are still pretty bad and the itching is still under control, try lowering the dose again. Try one tablet every other day. Then try a half tablet every other day. The idea with pred is to get it at its lowest effective dose. That way you can give him the relief with the pred while trying to switch him to a better food.



SubMariner said:


> Whoah!
> 
> There is a reason why the vet prescribed the prednisone: it's the fastest way to reduce the inflammation & itching. While two months does seem excessive, don't you think you should discuss this issue with the vet before arbitrarily deciding how much to give the dog & for how long? Usually prednisone is given in a specific regimen (x amount for day 1 x 1/2 for day 2, etc.) so just giving him what you think is a proper dose for a certain length of time may not be the best or most effective way to administer it.
> 
> ...


People use herbs all the time thinking that its natural, so it doesn't hurt to use it. WRONG! Herbal remedies can have bad effects just like perscription drugs. I am not saying that herbs are bad and should be avoided, just that its funny that people put so much blind faith in them, with the notion that they wont do any harm. Do some research first before trying anything. And on the flip side, just because a drug is FDA approved or whatnot does not mean that its 100% safe.


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## Lynn In Tenn (Aug 20, 2009)

When I got my puppy 2 weeks ago, I started feeding him Nutro Ultra Puppy. He came from a shelter so I don't know what he was being feed. He immediatly began licking and chewing on his paws to the point that they were really red and almost raw looking. 
That's when I decided to start feeding raw. Between the runny eyes my other dogs were having and his problem, was enough to make the change. I will probably never feed kibble again.


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## Whiskey's Momma (Sep 23, 2009)

Still on the Prednisone.......his paws are not completely healed. I think I am going to keep him on it for a while longer. I will call the vet when I decide to take him off, and see what he wants me to do. 

I know herbs are not all safe, especially when giving them to a dog. Herbs have active ingredients just like drugs do. If the herb is standardized then that active ingredient will be even more concentrated. I do believe in trying a natural approach when possible, instead of using prescription drugs. I am just worried about him being on prednisone. I really don't know what to do anymore....maybe I should feed raw?

I feel very lost, I want him to get better. We will see how he does once he is completely switched to grain free, if it doesnt work maybe I will need to look at other options such as a raw diet.....

Thank you everyone who has given their advice, I really do appreciate it. I am going to stay on the prednisone a bit longer.


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## Lynn In Tenn (Aug 20, 2009)

Well I can tell you that my puppy has not licked his feet once since going raw. I'm still waiting for the goopy eyes on my 1y/o to completely clear up. They have gotten a lot better.
Trying to figure out the allergy causing ingredient in kibble to me was close to impossible. Too many ingredients in them.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Whiskey's Momma said:


> Still on the Prednisone.......his paws are not completely healed. I think I am going to keep him on it for a while longer. I will call the vet when I decide to take him off, and see what he wants me to do.


Pred is a pretty strong drug, and it has some pretty bad side effects. But I think that he will benefit from staying on it. Just remember that pred should work at its LEAST effective dose.



> I know herbs are not all safe, especially when giving them to a dog. Herbs have active ingredients just like drugs do. If the herb is standardized then that active ingredient will be even more concentrated. I do believe in trying a natural approach when possible, instead of using prescription drugs. I am just worried about him being on prednisone. I really don't know what to do anymore....maybe I should feed raw?



100% agree with Lynn. Going raw is the best thing that you can do for his allergies. With feeding raw whole meats, you know with 100% certainty what is going in his body. You can pin point what he is allergic too MUCH, much easier this way. 

Even in the low allergen foods, there are like ~20 ingredients. How do you know which one really is to blame? Grains are the likely suspect, but what if they are not the culprit in his case?




> I feel very lost, I want him to get better. We will see how he does once he is completely switched to grain free, if it doesnt work maybe I will need to look at other options such as a raw diet.....


I think you should consider it more than a grain free food for this very reason. And as an added benefit...he will have better health all the way around :biggrin:

And since there's no transition time for switching to raw, you wont have to wait as long for his allergies to get under control. This is a great place to learn how to make the transition, but guaranteed your vet wont feel that great about it, not many agree with a raw diet. What you can do to prove to them that a raw diet is ideal, is not tell them what they eat until after he/she has remarked at how healthy and happy your dog is LOL




> Thank you everyone who has given their advice, I really do appreciate it. I am going to stay on the prednisone a bit longer.


That's what this forum is for! Helping eachother out!!!

I know that this forum is DogFoodChat, not RawFoodChat. I don't want people to get the impression that all we do is preach raw, raw, raw (sounds like a chant LOL). Of course I will recommend it over any other food, but people make their own choices and as long as their pets best interest is taken into account...that is all that matters. I don't look down on those who don't feed raw at all. I look down on people who do not do their own research and form their own opinions, take what others say for granted.


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## Lynn In Tenn (Aug 20, 2009)

I tried grain free foods too. There was something in all of them that my dogs didn't like. As I said before, trying to compare the ingredients in them is a nightmare.


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