# Finding a Responsible Breeder



## SuperPug (Mar 5, 2013)

A few years down the road me and hubby will be looking to get a puppy. I'd like to adopt one from a breeder. My husband expressed interest in Labradors after a meet/greet with 2 purebred ones. His heart breed is Beagles(I'm not interested in hounds) and my heart breed is Dobermans(and he's not interested in them), so we need to get something that we can both agree on.

I was told my someone that asking too many questions about the breeder would raise red flags as me being an uneducated owner. I really didn't think the type of questions I was asking would raise any red flags. Obviously I'm not an uneducated owner. I've only purchased once from a breeder. I knew him from a friend, called him, he told me about his breeding, what he was breeding for, how long he had been breeding and the bells/whistles he did to guarantee healthy puppies. It was a purchase that happened in the span of a month.

Since we have more time to plan and do research, I'm filtering through a few breeders. So far, I am leaning towards this breeder: Tarrah Labrador Retrievers Orlando Breeder Lab puppies She is located directly IN my town, does many many health tests and she feeds raw. I'd like to send her and a few other breeders emails. What would you send them? I'm thinking of telling them that I am interested in acquiring a puppy in a few years, possibly a bit earlier.


Thoughts/Opinions?


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

i don't think an educated seeker can ask enough questions. did i say that right?

i know i drove Liz crazy with questions. she was patient with me because the more educated i was as a recipient of one of her precious puppies, the more confident she was that i would provide a home that met her standards.

i was confident that her breeding program met mine. 

win win.


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

Super Pug - red flags for me are a lack of questions. People who don't want to learn more scare me. There are a lot of questions I would ask this breeder. Going with this kennel you really want to talk the breeder about her stud dogs and what qualities they bring to her breeding program. Look over her females because they are very different in head structure, expression and even build. You want to ask a lot about what the goal is for each particular breeding, you already know they health test and feed raw. Do you want a working dog, a couch potato, a hiking buddy? Do you like the more chiseled head and body or the more sticky look with a bit of a fleshy muzzle. She has both. What are you looking for in temperament? What kind of assistance is she ready to offer you as you raise this puppy? What if you have training issues? Health issues? How long is he guarantee - a 2 year guarantee doesn't mean much because you can't do things like hip testing til two and have really reliable results. 

Any way - for me the more questions the better. I talk to some people on and off for the better part of a year as they wait for the litter they want a puppy from. 

Get a copy of pedigrees of pairs you are interested in and the
contract. 

Liz


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## SuperPug (Mar 5, 2013)

Exactly my thoughts!
Surely more questions about her is what a breeder would like to read or hear. I'm very familiar with Labradors, just not so much the "adopting from breeder" process.

Here are a list of questions I am thinking about sending:


What veterinarians do you know? (she stated she knows 3 of them)
Typically how many litters do you have a year?
Do any of your litters develop any problems? If so, what are the problems and when do they typically occur?
Such disorders like elbow/hip, TVD, eye issues, PRA and mast cell tumors. What are you doing to prevent these issues from occurring?
Do you do any showing with your Labradors? If so, what type of showing do you enjoy?
We're considering bird hunting and agility with our future Labrador. What are your opinions on them?
In the event that the inevitable happens and we cannot keep our future Labrador do you require him or her to be brought back to you?
How long have you been involved with the breed? 
How long have you been breeding Labradors?
What made you decide to start breeding Labradors?
How long have you been feeding Raw?
Do you feed exclusively Raw?
What animals are your Labradors exposed to in your home?
Are they ever left alone in your home? For how long?
Typically how old are the puppies when they go to their homes?
Are they potty trained when ready to go home?
What do the puppies go home with?
What are the fees for adopting a puppy?


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## SuperPug (Mar 5, 2013)

Would questions about her breeding process be acceptable?
Like the typical age she starts breeding. What goals she has in mind for the coupling...


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

Super Pug I expect my puppy buyers to care about why I bred two particular dogs. She should be able to tell you the particular physical, mental or temperamental traits she is looking to pass on to a litter by breeding these two dogs. What are the positives of the pairing and what are any negatives she will be watching for. What are some goals she is looking to reach in her breeding program? Does she strive for excellent hunting dogs who can also stand up to their breed standard? Does she like conformation more than hunting, obedience or agility? I think all your questions are good and I personally would not be offended by nay of them and would like to take time to talk and share with you. 

Liz


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## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

When I talk to breeders I ask tons of questions. As a breeder (I'm not) I might be kind of worried if someone was asking me questions like "Does a dog need water every day?" I have had someone ask me that before...

I didn't ask as many questions with Buck since hounds are more common and I have been able to interact with many but with iorveth I asked question after question after question after question after... You get the idea. I wanted to know what their personalities were like, different skin care methods, what lotions/shampoos different breeders/owners preferred, how training was with a primitive breed, what to do if I ran into a skin issue, etc. There isn't a whole lot of information in books or on the internet about Xolos so I HAD to be a nuisance to breeders and owners. Most were very willing to answer my questions and those that weren't were immediately crossed off my list even if they had excellent dogs. I want a caring breeder AND a dog, not just an unknown, unwilling to help stranger who bred my dog. You have the advantage of desiring a more common breed that has more information. There are tons of books and websites about Labradors. Obviously, use your best judgement on the internet since not everything is true but there is a ton of info out there. 

With Iorveth's breeder I was able to find someone who breeds quality Xolos and was there to support me and answer my questions when I was trying to educate myself on the breed. I found him through the Xolo Club of America website. If you decide not to go with this breeder you can try looking at the Labrador Club of America (or whatever the name of the club is). That is often a good place to start. You'll probably be able to find what you are looking for.


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## BearMurphy (Feb 29, 2012)

review the list of health clearances here: Clearances for Labs

that message board is full of info but you can't ask about a breeder by name in a post, but you can PM about it once you have enough posts

One thing I noticed is that if you want a hunting dog, I don't see anything saying their dogs do hunt tests or anything related. It looks like they show their females which is good for conformation, but if you are looking for an active, go all day labrador she might not be the best at producing those. It's also not easy to find a breeder that feeds raw, so maybe talk to her about her dog's temperaments and typical activity level to see if they have the qualities you are looking for

I love the sweet temperaments of bench bred labs but I like a dog that can do anything you ask of it and still want to go for more even when they are tired. That tells me that they have a lot of drive and want to please you which comes into play in other avenues of training and makes working with them very enjoyable


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## InkedMarie (Sep 9, 2011)

magicre said:


> i don't think an educated seeker can ask enough questions. did i say that right?
> 
> i know i drove Liz crazy with questions. she was patient with me because the more educated i was as a recipient of one of her precious puppies, the more confident she was that i would provide a home that met her standards.
> 
> ...


Aren't you glad I'm only driving you crazy with raw and not potential breeders?


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

You drive no one crazy.


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## SuperPug (Mar 5, 2013)

BearMurphy said:


> review the list of health clearances here: Clearances for Labs
> 
> that message board is full of info but you can't ask about a breeder by name in a post, but you can PM about it once you have enough posts
> 
> ...


Well the hunting is a bit iffy. We dont have a duck hunting property. But if we were to find one we'd be more for the traits of a hunter. Also, it'd only be a once or twice a year occurrence for duck hunting. The dog we want is one that will go on runs, biking or long walks. We're an active couple and we go camping, hiking, trail riding and all that fun stuff.


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

Super Pug - with only hunting a couple of times per year I would not get a lab from hunting lines as you won't be fulfilling his needs. Tell your breeder you would like to play with hunting a little a few times per year and would like a pup who shows some interest in scenting work but is not driven to hunt. JMHO

I would not sell a high drive herding collie or sheltie to someone who wanted to play around with herding a bit here or there as the dog would drive them and itself crazy.


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## brindle (Mar 14, 2013)

Why not rescue a Lab? I don't think they are in short supply... many quality rescues that could help you find a puppy with your needs.


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

Super Pug rescue is wonderful but there is nothing wrong with buying a puppy from a reputable breeder I hope you find what you are looking for and thoroughly enjoy raising your puppy. 
Liz


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## SuperPug (Mar 5, 2013)

Thank you all for your helpful input!

All but 1 my dogs have been rescues. While I love them dearly, I'd also love a sane, healthy and properly bred dog. Ive also looked into breed specific rescues, they're expecting me to pay nearly the same price as a well bred dog. Im not keen on paying hundreds on a problem dog.


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## BearMurphy (Feb 29, 2012)

SuperPug said:


> Thank you all for your helpful input!
> 
> All but 1 my dogs have been rescues. While I love them dearly, I'd also love a sane, healthy and properly bred dog. Ive also looked into breed specific rescues, they're expecting me to pay nearly the same price as a well bred dog. Im not keen on paying hundreds on a problem dog.


I would think a well bred lab will cost you at least $1000 if the breeder did all the clearances. I've never seen a rescue charge over $500 for a puppy and that would be high. Remember when you are adopting a dog at a high cost from a rescue you are paying for vet care for other sick dogs so it's more of a donation than a purchase price


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## SuperPug (Mar 5, 2013)

I am prepared to pay atleast $1000 for a well bred pup. I won't pay hundreds for a problem dog.


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## brindle (Mar 14, 2013)

SuperPug said:


> I am prepared to pay atleast $1000 for a well bred pup. I won't pay hundreds for a problem dog.


Unfortunately a pure bred isn't a guarantee either. I'm sure rescues are full of healthy pups. All if my mixes have been healthier then the registered ones.... that's just my experience. 
Why bring more dogs into the world when there are so many already?


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## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

Brindle, she would like to go to a breeder. There is nothing wrong with that. Don't derail another thread by turning this into a debate about breeders vs adopting. All of my purebreds have been healthier than my mixes (who I loved just as much as my purebreds). It's not a guarantee either way but there is a better chance of good genetics when you go to a responsible breeder.

SuperPug, I second what Liz said. If you aren't going to be hunting on a regular basis I would either wait on a Lab or find one who CAN hunt but doesn't need to be out doing it all the time. A friend of mine has a pair of Labs he hunts with three times a year. They aren't AMAZING duck dogs but they get the job done on the occasions he does get to go hunting. He doesn't need hardcore duck dogs. They are wonderful dogs.


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

SuperPug said:


> A few years down the road me and hubby will be looking to get a puppy. I'd like to *adopt *one from a breeder. My husband expressed interest in Labradors after a meet/greet with 2 purebred ones. His heart breed is Beagles(I'm not interested in hounds) and my heart breed is Dobermans(and he's not interested in them), so we need to get something that we can both agree on.
> 
> I was told my someone that asking too many questions about the breeder would raise red flags as me being an uneducated owner. I really didn't think the type of questions I was asking would raise any red flags. Obviously I'm not an uneducated owner. I've only purchased once from a breeder. I knew him from a friend, called him, he told me about his breeding, what he was breeding for, how long he had been breeding and the bells/whistles he did to guarantee healthy puppies. It was a purchase that happened in the span of a month.
> 
> ...



FWIW you don't adopt from a breeder. You purchase a puppy from a breeder. Big difference.


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

Super Pug - I get what you are trying to say and agree. I think rescuing is wonderful but again you have chosen it seems to go with an very well bred puppy and I applaud your choice in this also. Puppies are wonderful and working with a really good breeder is a good experience. There are no 100% guarantees but I understand stacking the deck in your favor. I have fostered many herding breeds who were healthy and sane but many more who had real issues both health wise and temperamentally. I am glad when someone knows what they want and go about to ethically acquire a lovely puppy. 

Ask tons of questions and feel very comfortable with the breeder. Make sure you are very clear on what you are looking for and you should have a great experience and end up with a lovely puppy. I can't wait to see pictures of a new baby.


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## SuperPug (Mar 5, 2013)

I appreciate all the help everyone.

Sprocket, I understand you purchase from a breeder. It just feels weird to say you're purchasing a dog. Makes it sound like your getting a material item. Adopt just sounds so much better. Well, to me it does.


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## FBarnes (Feb 17, 2013)

SuperPug said:


> I appreciate all the help everyone.
> 
> Sprocket, I understand you purchase from a breeder. It just feels weird to say you're purchasing a dog. Makes it sound like your getting a material item. Adopt just sounds so much better. Well, to me it does.


You ARE purchasing a dog. Why not say what it is? "Adopt" implies you are rescuing a dog that has no home. There are many people out there who devote their lives, for no pay, to saving and finding adopters for homeless dogs. Purchasing a dog is not that.


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

SuperPug said:


> I appreciate all the help everyone.
> 
> Sprocket, I understand you purchase from a breeder. It just feels weird to say you're purchasing a dog. Makes it sound like your getting a material item. Adopt just sounds so much better. Well, to me it does.


Well if you are comfortable purchasing a dog, then you should get cozy with the term. It is insulting to people who actually do adopt dogs. If you think the term adopt sounds better then perhaps you should adopt? Just sayin...


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## Celt (Dec 27, 2010)

<sigh> It doesn't matter whether you get a rescue or a breeder's puppy, you are not adopting. You are buying a pet whether it be "brand new" or "used" doesn't change the action. If it makes a person feel better to say they're adopting then no biggie. If you feel buying a "purpose" bred pup is not good, then don't do it but allow others their decision.


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## FBarnes (Feb 17, 2013)

Celt said:


> <sigh> It doesn't matter whether you get a rescue or a breeder's puppy, you are not adopting. You are buying a pet whether it be "brand new" or "used" doesn't change the action. If it makes a person feel better to say they're adopting then no biggie. If you feel buying a "purpose" bred pup is not good, then don't do it but allow others their decision.


I disagree. When getting a dog from a rescue, you are probably not even paying for the minimal vet bills, shots, etc. You are donating to help the rescue continue, and the difference is made up by people who donate and aren't getting a dog to make up the difference and often fosters themselves. And yes, it's semantics but it matters. With a breeder you are paying for certain things - an adopted dog won't have health tests, or guarantees, or known parents, or the ability to win an AKC show. Those are what you BUY from a breeder. 

From a rescue you are helping people save the lives of dogs that very likely would be euthanized if there were no "adopters" to give them homes. And that's what you do when you write a check.


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

Celt said:


> <sigh> It doesn't matter whether you get a rescue or a breeder's puppy, you are not adopting. You are buying a pet whether it be "brand new" or "used" doesn't change the action. If it makes a person feel better to say they're adopting then no biggie. If you feel buying a "purpose" bred pup is not good, then don't do it but allow others their decision.


I don't personally care about whether she buys or adopts. 

You don't buy from a rescue. Your adoption fee is a donation towards the rescue. HUGE difference between paying an adoption fee and paying a breeder for a puppy. Gunners adoption fee was 250$. That didn't even cover his neuter (350$). 


Its the principle of the term that I was correcting. That is all.


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## SuperPug (Mar 5, 2013)

So sorry I offended you. Everyone has their own opinions. You really shouldn't be offended by someone's opinions. I'm not going to be offended by you referring to your dog as a purchase(if you got him or her from a breeder).

FYI: a definition of adopt: _ To take up and make one's own _

Lastly, where do you think the money a breeder makes goes to? It goes to the animals they have in their care. Same thing as a rescue fee.


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

SuperPug said:


> So sorry I offended you. Everyone has their own opinions. You really shouldn't be offended by someone's opinions. I'm not going to be offended by you referring to your dog as a purchase(if you got him or her from a breeder).
> 
> FYI: a definition of adopt: _ To take up and make one's own _
> 
> Lastly, where do you think the money a breeder makes goes to? *It goes to the animals they have in their care. *Same thing as a rescue fee.


If only that were the truth in all cases.

I am not offended by your _opinion_. Just correcting your incorrect use of the term. Carry on...


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## FBarnes (Feb 17, 2013)

SuperPug said:


> So sorry I offended you. Everyone has their own opinions. You really shouldn't be offended by someone's opinions. I'm not going to be offended by you referring to your dog as a purchase(if you got him or her from a breeder).
> 
> FYI: a definition of adopt: _ To take up and make one's own _
> 
> Lastly, where do you think the money a breeder makes goes to? It goes to the animals they have in their care. Same thing as a rescue fee.


nope, no difference at all. Oh wait, maybe a tiny one. The rescue dog often gets gassed in three days if not "bought." 

I'll tell the next woman I meet at the vet who sells chihuahas by the dozens because "it's a good living" that she should be giving all that money to her animal care.


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## SuperPug (Mar 5, 2013)

That woman you speak of is entirely different from a responsible breeder. 

$1000-some-odd is likely to cover only HALF of what a responsible breeder spends on her dogs. 

Wither you agree with me or not, I'm not going to continue on with a brick wall.


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

Super Pug - it seems you have inadvertently touched on a nerve. Rescue vs breeding is a big issue on many forum and like raw vs kibble it seems never the twain shall meet.  I take collies/shelties into my home to rehab and place and don't regret a one of them and some have been lovely dogs, some have been a lot of work. I have never kept a rescue dog because I have limited room and I show and breed occasionally. I don't feel bad at all with my choices and like you, strive to buy from the most reputable breeder possible. This seems to be an agree to disagree type of thing. Good luck in your search for the right addition to your pack. 


P.S.
All the people who *buy* my puppies feel they are adopting once they get through the rigorous screening - they kind of are as they will be part of my family as long as they have one of my pups.


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## SuperPug (Mar 5, 2013)

I do agree that breeding vs rescue is a touchy subject in many forums and groups. But I believe people should respect someone's decisions and opinions. I respect how they feel about rescuing and will continue to respect it.

Thank you again Liz


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

SuperPug said:


> I do agree that breeding vs rescue is a touchy subject in many forums and groups. But I believe people should respect someone's decisions and opinions. I respect how they feel about rescuing and will continue to respect it.
> 
> Thank you again Liz


You need to realize that we aren't discussing your decision to purchase a dog from a breeder. We are discussing your use of the term "adopt". It was incorrect and I had to remind you. 

I don't give two hoots where you get your dog so don't blow it out of proportion. :thumb:


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

Liz said:


> Super Pug - it seems you have inadvertently touched on a nerve. Rescue vs breeding is a big issue on many forum and like raw vs kibble it seems never the twain shall meet.  I take collies/shelties into my home to rehab and place and don't regret a one of them and some have been lovely dogs, some have been a lot of work. I have never kept a rescue dog because I have limited room and I show and breed occasionally. I don't feel bad at all with my choices and like you, strive to buy from the most reputable breeder possible. This seems to be an agree to disagree type of thing. Good luck in your search for the right addition to your pack.
> 
> 
> P.S.
> All the people who *buy* my puppies feel they are adopting once they get through the rigorous screening - they kind of are as they will be part of my family as long as they have one of my pups.



See, but they can "feel" like they are adopting or think that it "sounds better" but they are not adopting therefore should save that term for the people who DO actually adopt a dog.

*I'm not against purchasing a dog from an ethical breeder*. I am just a stickler for using the right term. Adoption and rescue is very near and dear to my heart since I surround myself with rescue mutts and feel very good about it. 

If someone wants that same good feeling, they should get it the real way. Don't steal the term just because it "sounds better" or makes you feel like a better person.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

Well, now that we've beat a dead horse on what word she is allowed to use (or not use)...lets try to keep this civil


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

meggels said:


> Well, now that we've beat a dead horse on what word she is allowed to use (or not use)...lets try to keep this civil


It is civil. She just didn't get it so I had to repeat myself


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

Sprocket said:


> It is civil. She just didn't get it so I had to repeat myself


I think she simply didn't agree with you lol. 

But let's move on back towards the original point of this thread.


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## InkedMarie (Sep 9, 2011)

Liz said:


> You drive no one crazy.


Utah, you've been talking to Re, eh? I'm finally ok with an every other day pooper. Trying to get her situated before the other two are done with their kibble.


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## InkedMarie (Sep 9, 2011)

Sprocket said:


> I don't personally care about whether she buys or adopts.
> 
> You don't buy from a rescue. Your adoption fee is a donation towards the rescue. HUGE difference between paying an adoption fee and paying a breeder for a puppy. Gunners adoption fee was 250$. That didn't even cover his neuter (350$).
> 
> ...


We have a few in state reduces. Most have dogs shipped from down south. They come to foster homes. Some of these rescues charge a lot of money, $450 to over $600. I doubt they have that much invested in them. Considering they are vaccinated, possibly altered. If not altered, it's done cheaply. I believe some are out for the money. Our senior sheltie that we adopted in January was $175. The week we got her, they had a $600 plus bill for her spay and dental that resulted in ll her teeth being removed. Obviously, not out for the money.


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

adopt[ uh-dopt ]
verb (used with object)
1.*to choose or take as one's own; make one's own by selection or assent: to adopt a nickname.
2.*to take and rear (the child of other parents) as one's own child, specifically by a formal legal act.
3.*to take or receive into any kind of new relationship: to adopt a person as a protégé.


Purchased from a breeder, or shelter... Any time anyone gets a dog fromanyone it falls under the technical definition of adopt. Now if people claim to rescue dogs from breeders, that's one thing... But if you're going to be rude.... I mean... A stickler.... About silly word usage, know what the word even means.


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## BearMurphy (Feb 29, 2012)

SuperPug said:


> I am prepared to pay atleast $1000 for a well bred pup. I won't pay hundreds for a problem dog.


then very carefully select a Labrador breeder with ALL of the health clearances and screening because they have a lot of genetic health problems. And even then you could still pay over $1000 for a dog with a serious health problems.

Really I think the main difference between purchasing a dog from a breeder and rescuing is knowing where the dog came from (hopefully increasing the probability of no temperament/health issues) and you get a great support system with a breeder. my rescue isn't a "problem dog" but I read all the time on another forum about well bred labs with allergies, thyroid issues, joint issues, etc. maybe it's because their breeders don't practice natural rearing and the vaccinations and diet are causing these problems? I don't know, but if you don't want "problems" you might be better off buying a dog from a breed that isn't as popular. I love labs though and will always want a lab/lab mix in my life.

just to clarify, I don't care if you get your dog from a breeder, I just know that you have to be very careful when choosing a Labrador breeder if you want to increase your chances of avoiding their health issues


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## FBarnes (Feb 17, 2013)

CorgiPaws said:


> adopt[ uh-dopt ]
> verb (used with object)
> 1.*to choose or take as one's own; make one's own by selection or assent: to adopt a nickname.
> 2.*to take and rear (the child of other parents) as one's own child, specifically by a formal legal act.
> ...


I don't see anything about "purchase" for the profit of others in any of those definitions. When one adopts a child it is illegal to buy it. You go to jail for that. you pay legal fees, you might pay for the mother's medical expenses etc. but you cannot put a price tag on the head of a human child. When you adopt a dog it is a similar process. When one sells a dog with a price tag, that is not an adoption. There has never been anything in the history of the usage of the word that suggests you are adopting a new bed you buy from the store, or adopting a house when you buy it and move in. It's the same with a purchased dog, which is property in the eyes of the law. You do not adopt that which you buy.


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## FBarnes (Feb 17, 2013)

SuperPug said:


> I do agree that breeding vs rescue is a touchy subject in many forums and groups. But I believe people should respect someone's decisions and opinions. I respect how they feel about rescuing and will continue to respect it.
> 
> Thank you again Liz


I totally respect your decision to purchase a dog from a responsible breeder. I think a very teeny tiny percentage of people who purchase dogs actually get one from people like Liz.


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## brindle (Mar 14, 2013)

FBarnes said:


> I don't see anything about "purchase" for the profit of others in any of those definitions. When one adopts a child it is illegal to buy it. You go to jail for that. you pay legal fees, you might pay for the mother's medical expenses etc. but you cannot put a price tag on the head of a human child. When you adopt a dog it is a similar process. When one sells a dog with a price tag, that is not an adoption. There has never been anything in the history of the usage of the word that suggests you are adopting a new bed you buy from the store, or adopting a house when you buy it and move in. It's the same with a purchased dog, which is property in the eyes of the law. You do not adopt that which you buy.


Agreed. This is not a child we are talking about, and those definitions are referring to a child. 
Dogs are technically referred to as "property"... one BUYS property, you do not "adopt" property. If you want to get technical, you have to find the correct definitions.


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## SuperPug (Mar 5, 2013)

*sigh* -.-

I really do appreciate those who have offered advice and information to help me with my search. Bear, I've read that as well. It wouldn't be of no surprise to me if it reallt had to do with rearing, diet and vaccination history. Carefully bred or not, I am prepared for medical issues to come about. We have two emergency only credit cards. They've proven their worth with us quite a few times.

Id like to apologize if I offended anyone for my lack of better term, "problem dog". In my experience the most problematic dogs I've seen are from rescues and shelters. My pug was off the street. 3-4 years later with us, she still reacts to certain things. Cannot put your hand infront her face without presenting your hand in a certain manner. She won't perform certain behaviors like roll over without fear(she is getting better with that)...she has a few other issues. But with time love and patience she is improving.


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## xchairity_casex (Oct 8, 2011)

You can never ask enough questions!

The breeder i bought Chimera from, jokes about how many questions i asked him!
i wanted to know about his dogs health, i wanted to know about his dogs temperments, i wanted to know about his dogs diets, i wanted to know his day to day schedual with all of his dogs, i wanted to know how often he bred, and why, i wanted to know how his dogs developed, and what his goal was when breeding his dogs, i wanted to know what his biggest problems were with his dogs behavior,
i wanted vet refrences from his vets, i wanted to know his traning style and why,i wanted to know how he socielized and why.

yeah, i became addicted to knowing him,his family AND,most of all his dogs!


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## doggiedad (Jan 23, 2011)

definitely ask questions and lots of them. i think a breeder will appreciate your
concerns and not judge how much you know about the breed you're interested
in. call a lot of breeder's and ask questions you're going to learn a lot by asking
questions. join a Lab forum and ask questions. research the breed. learn and have
fun learning. good luck with the new pup. do you like Golden's?


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

superpug,

when i rescue, i expect 'some' problems. i have your pug only he's black.....sigh....

when i buy a dog, i expect no problems. and my breeder becomes a member of my family. at least it did in my case.....with unannounced visitation and everything, it's like having dog protective services LOL...just kidding, but i like that i know the genetics, the background, the expected temperament, the structural soundness, the health. ah, the health.

that alone was worth buying a dog.

to everyone else:

for those who don't think of their dogs as children, that's great for you. but please don't bash those of us who do think of and treat our dogs as our kids. 

i have no children. these are my children. and, just as you are permitted your opinon, i should be permitted mine. although fur mommy does sound like a certain fetish i won't speak of.


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## SuperPug (Mar 5, 2013)

DoggieDad, I had a golden lab cross when I was younger. But long hair isn't our thing, so we're steering away from it. Labs are basically an imprint of a golden, just without the long hair 

Magicre, I think some people take the whole "my animals are my children" thing too far. They start to detach from the animal being an animal and think of it as a human child. Thus possibly creating some issues. I, myself, love my animals wholeheartedly and place them as same as us. If they have a medical emergency, they'll be rushed to the emergency vet just like we'll be rushed to a hospital when needed.


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## GoingPostal (Sep 5, 2011)

One thing I will say about buying a lab, obviously health screens are a must but please look on offa.org to confirm and look at the whole family, not just sire/dam. There's a lab breeder near me who does the hunting competitions, health tests a little but I have noticed he will breed dogs with "good" hips even if their siblings/relatives have poor scores and I know many people who have bought labs from supposed health tested lines who are unhealthy. My coworker's had hip problems and severe epilepsy, was put down at 6, her parents dog has replaced both knees, my sister's lab has serious allergy problems and thyroid issues and all these dogs were from breeders. Most up here now are so oversized as well, nice dogs but not my cup of tea.


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## SuperPug (Mar 5, 2013)

Thanks!
I am running through the OFA's site to double/triple check all the dogs getting bred. I've also been checking LabraData, tho I'm taking what I read on that site with a grain of salt. I can't really tell if it's one of those sites you can fake information or not.


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## 1605 (May 27, 2009)

I know I may be throwing yet another complication into the discussion, but have you thought of a GSP? Yes, this may be perceived as a somewhat self-serving suggestion, but still... 

One of the main reasons we decided on this breed is that they haven't been "messed around with" a lot via "breeding programs". And they tend to have few genetically predisposed health problems.

They have a great disposition, are fantastic family dogs, and are very energetic/active. (IOW, they make wonderful running companions.)

Just sayin' :biggrin1:


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## SuperPug (Mar 5, 2013)

I do love GSPs though I put them on the back burner, per say, because ive mostly seen them used as hunting dogs. If I do find someone breeding and proving them as family dogs, id consider them after research on the breeder. Like Liz said, I dont want a dog bred for a job. I wont be able to give him a job to do everyday. He'd drive me and himself insane.


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## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

Personally, I feel that, when I bring home a new pup, I am BOTH buying and adopting. Yes, I am buying a dog from a breeder because I am spending money on the price the breeder asked but I am also adopting a dog because, when I bring home a puppy, I am not bringing home a new vase to be set in a corner. I am bringing home a living, breathing creature to add to my family as a family member. Whether other people see it that way or not, I don't particularly care. It is how I feel. Semantics don't matter to me. Those who rescue can feel insulted all they like. It is they who are giving my words that meaning. Not me. I wish to insult no one.

Anyhow, SuperPug, there ARE still great Lab breeders out there so it IS possible to find one. The problem arises in them being such a popular breed. Everyone and their mom wants to make some quick money of breeding Labs, Goldens, "designer dogs", Cocker Spaniels, etc. So, while it IS possible to find excellent, healthy dogs of these breeds, it will probably just take more work. Finding a breeder isn't fun or easy but the reward is definitely worth it in the end.


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