# Going to the vet today....



## luvMyBRT (Mar 8, 2010)

I have an appointment at 4:45 today to take Duncan in. Nothing is wrong, I just want to get on the same page (so to speak) with my vet on Duncan's condition. I am thinking I also want to do a urinalysis to have something to start with, and will do one yearly to help monitor things. Also going to ask her where I can get pH test strips so I can monitor his urine pH at home.

I am a bit nervous about her asking what he eats. I have already been told by the girls at the front desk that she is not for raw. They sell Science Diet. I think if she asks I'm just gonna say that I have Duncan on a diet geared towards his condition that I feel is best for him now. I wonder if I said "home cooked" if that would be better than "raw" or "barf"....?? 

I really like her as she did wonderful with Kodi when he was diagnosed with cancer.

Wish me luck. :smile:


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## malluver1005 (Nov 15, 2009)

saraj2878 said:


> I think if she asks I'm just gonna say that I have Duncan on a diet geared towards his condition that I feel is best for him now.


I think this is a great response. Good luck...

None of that Hills crap...


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Just be upfront and honest with it. If your vet gives you grief tell her it's not up for discussion and that if she doesn't like it you will go elsewhere. Because wouldnt it be awesome for her to see that raw really does work?


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## Ania's Mommy (Feb 8, 2009)

I think dropping the BARF bomb will greatly help your situation. Crazily enough, my vet seems to be okay with the PRM, but she advised me to add veggies and grains so she doesn't acquire nutrient deficiencies. But honestly, I think she could see that I wasn't changing my stance and didn't push it at all.

As convoluted as I think it is, I believe that the average vet food preference goes something like this:

Science Diet / Royal Canin
Petco foods
Orijen/Evo
grocery store brands
home cooked
BARF 
PMR

I wish you and Mr. Bringin' the Heat luck!!


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## luvMyBRT (Mar 8, 2010)

Thanks you guys! You all always make me feel better! I KNOW that I am doing what is the absolute best for my boy. :biggrin::biggrin:

And if asked I'll be sure and BARF.....:tongue:


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

i want my vet to know because the only way he can give me answers if something goes wrong with my dog is if i don't leave anything out.

the most important part of diagnosis is a comprehensive history and physical.....

i could care less whether or not he approves.....but leaving the mustard out of the recipe seems counterproductive.

hold your head up high and go forth!


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## RachelsaurusRexU (Sep 4, 2010)

How did it go?


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## luvMyBRT (Mar 8, 2010)

Thanks Rachel for checking back... :smile:

The visit went really well. I know for sure that my vet has Duncan's best interest at heart and she's not one who is "just in it for the money" so to speak.

We did an urinalysis and the results were not good. Duncan's urine was FULL of urate crystals. The vet said it was in the thousands. When looking at his urine on a slide under the microscope she said it was solid crystals from corner to corner. Duncan's urine was so thick with sludge and sediment that when she shook the vial it looked like a snow globe. This is not good news, since it is the crystals that stick together that form the actual stones. She then did an ultrasound (since urate stones don't show up on x-rays) to check for stones. I am more than happy to report that he doesn't have any stones...yet. 

I am really upset because this is telling me that 1) a raw diet is not making the situation better and 2) this modified barf diet *may* not be helping much either since he has been on it for 2 weeks before his UA.

So right now Duncan is eating a u/d diet for two weeks to try and get these crystals gone/and or their numbers lower. With that many crystals in his urine the vet said that stones are not far away unless we do something drastic to get things under control. I can tell you one thing....feeding him an Rx diet is one of the hardest things I have had to do in a long time. But, what am I to do? His current diet is not helping the problem, so at this point I need to do what I can to help get these crystals gone..... :frown:

After the 2 weeks on the u/d we are going to do another urinalysis to see where we are. The vet said that she DOES NOT want Duncan on the u/d for any longer than 2 weeks. Max. At the end of two weeks after we see where we are we are going to come up with a long term diet.

I am so frustrated and sad. I was so sure that his raw diet would make his condition easier to deal with.....but his urine stated otherwise. At this point, I am not sure what I'm going to do. I may go back to the modified barf diet since he had only been on it for 2 weeks...or I may need to come up with a plan B diet....as much as I hate to think of it. I could just cry right now. :frown:


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## k9capture_16 (Aug 23, 2010)

IMO opinion I dont think 2 weeks on the new diet was enough. But I understand why your feeding an RX diet. Personally I would put him back on BARF after these two weeks and go from there. There has to be something you can do rather then feed kibble to maintain it.


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## Ania's Mommy (Feb 8, 2009)

Oh man. I'm so sorry to hear that.

MAYBE before he went to the modified BARF diet, it was way worse than it is now. MAYBE the diet HAS worked a little magic?

Your vet does sound awesome, though. I mean, how many vets say that they don't want your pet on an Rx diet for more than two weeks? Not very many, I bet.

I hope that things start to clear up for Duncan. Poor guy. Poor mommy. :frown:

On a side note, how the heck to you get a dog to pee in a cup?!?!?


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## cprcheetah (Jul 14, 2010)

Sorry to hear that news, I think it takes longer than 2 weeks to see changes in their system from the new diet. So it could be the new diet hasn't had time to do it's thing yet.


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## luvMyBRT (Mar 8, 2010)

Thanks guys. 

That is what I am thinking...that 2 weeks is hard to go off of. In two weeks I'll see what his urine is like and go from there. :smile:


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## luvMyBRT (Mar 8, 2010)

Ania's Mommy said:


> On a side note, how the heck to you get a dog to pee in a cup?!?!?


Use a ladle, strategically place it in the urine stream, and then pour the pee into the cup. :biggrin::biggrin:


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## List (Oct 28, 2008)

I wouldn't give up on the modified barf diet just yet. 2 weeks is not a lot of time. I think once you finish up the 2 week course of rx food to dissolve the crystals. I really think going back to barf and closely monitoring urine pH levels.

I actually purchased urinary strips to monitor my cat's urine pH. That actually allowed me tweak his diet as needed and made me feel really confident about staying with raw for him. In addition there are some supps you could use in addition to the raw to make make Duncan's urine more alkaline.


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## luvMyBRT (Mar 8, 2010)

I do plan on getting some pH test strips too, so that I can test his urine pH frequently. I'd love to hear about the supplements your talking of. What are they and how did they help?
:smile:


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## k9capture_16 (Aug 23, 2010)

Hmm. Someone told me once she gave her dog who produced struvite crystals cranberry juice in his diet. She told me it helped so maybe read up on that?


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## RachelsaurusRexU (Sep 4, 2010)

Oh no! :-/

I'm sorry to hear about all of that. I definitely agree with the others, though. And those test strips sound like a great idea. Don't worry, you'll get it all sorted out and under control. I know you will!


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## List (Oct 28, 2008)

Urate crystals are more difficult to deal with than say struvite, but it can be managed. I think your barf diet is a really good base.

Potassium Citrate is often used to dissolve urate crystals. Actually I can bet you thats the 'active' ingredient in the rx formula. Once you get urine strips, you could supplement with potassium citrate and be able to essentially monitor and tweak as needed. There is even a Wysong supplement called Wysong Biotic pH + (not - as this is for struvite issues) that you could add to Duncan's barf diet. 

It's just something to consider. I became somewhat of a animal urinary health nut when my cat was constantly sick. Raw plus pH strips have essentially saved his life. I monitor regularly, and supplement as needed.


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## Khan (Jan 17, 2010)

I'm sorry to hear those results on Duncan. I also believe that 2 weeks is not enough time to see results, or at least to know if what you saw "today" wasn't at least better from 2 weeks prior. So looks like you can add the supplement Potassium Citrate or Sodium Bicarbonate. (It's in the articles I sent you) in the one article looks like after they started adding that to the food and within 6 months they were gone. Also find it interesting that it says the dogs need to drink alot. Because of the raw food, I know in our house the dogs don't drink a ton unless they've been really running around. Did you notice it suggests to add a little salt to the dogs food in hopes to get them drinking more? 
I know KVVet has ph strips for sale. Maybe the vet will just give you some so for the next few weeks you can monitor/log where he's at? Worth asking.


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## luvMyBRT (Mar 8, 2010)

Thanks you guys.

I am taking notes on the supplements and suggestions. 

I really hope that once these two weeks are up that my vet will have an open mind. I really would like to stay on the same page as her, diet wise. But, at the same time, I'm not going to feed something to Duncan I'm not comfortable with. She said that she was going to contact UC Davis (Hyperuricosuria) and a nutritionist to get some insight as to the best possible diet for Duncan. 

I am keeping my fingers crossed .....:smile: 

Thank you all once again for your support and insight. It means a lot to me.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

i've read that your modified raw diet can take up to three months to take hold, as it were.

if you monitor duncan with the urine strips each morning (first pee), keep a journal of what you feed and definitely encourage drinking....to that end, i'd be adding a no salt chicken broth (home made is best) to get him to drink more than he is doing now....

i think some of the sludge may be because dogs don't drink as much when fed raw..and your dog needs to be hydrated more so than other dogs...chicken broth added to water generally does the trick. don't need much...just enough to keep him drinking more than usual to dilute the sludge...


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## luvMyBRT (Mar 8, 2010)

Today we did another follow up urinalysis on Duncan. He is back to having urate crystals in his urine as well as protein this time. 

Two weeks ago when we did a urinalysis he just had some sediment in his urine, so his urine has worsened noticeable in two weeks time.

Not sure what I'm going to do and not sure if this modified barf diet is going to work. 

I think what I may try is to once again cut back on the amount of chicken I am feeding. Maybe instead of feeding chicken every day, feed a RMB every other day. My goal is to somehow reduce again the amount of purines he is getting. 

His urine pH is steady at 7.0 which is good and is very dilute. I add A LOT of water to his diet daily so that he urinates every 2-3 hours and keeps his bladder flushed out.

This is very frustrating and upsetting....and I hope I can soon figure out the right diet for him. :frown:


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## Ania's Mommy (Feb 8, 2009)

Gosh Sarah. I'm sorry to hear this. I wish there was some help I could offer you... 

I'm glad that Duncan got you for his mommy, though. Not many owners would do as much as you have.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Darn....that's frustrating. Have you asked others that have affected dogs what their normal readings are while on a modified barf diet?

Duncan sure is a lucky guy to have such a devoted mom!


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## luvMyBRT (Mar 8, 2010)

Thanks guys. :smile: I can always count on you all to make me feel better.

The hard thing is that I don't know of any BRTs that are affected that are fed a modified barf diet. When I posted about this on my BRT forum, there was one affected dog that was fed Royal Canin prescription food and another that was fed Science Diet prescription food. However, their owners did say that the dogs were doing very well....but I don't think I can bring myself to feeding Duncan a diet of crap for his whole life.

I do know that seeing sediment in his urine is normal for an affected dog, so two weeks ago when the vet found that I wasn't worried. But, now that there are crystals again really bums me out. :frown:

And the protein found too....Natalie, doesn't that mean there is irritation somewhere? Possibly from the crystals irritating the lining of his bladder wall?


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

Sara have you tried going the tripe route instead of chicken? I do know several people who only feed tripe, but I'm not sure of the readings.


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## luvMyBRT (Mar 8, 2010)

Thanks Robin. :smile:
Great idea to look into. I'll have to see if I can find the purine content of tripe....

Everything else he is fed, besides the RMB, is very low purine. I make sure of that.

I have also talked to my friend who has Duncan's half brother who had major problems and developed urate stones. He told me that his dog had the most trouble with this from the age of 8 months to 2 years old. He said it seemed like once he hit 2 that things seemed to settle down. I have read that affected dogs seem to have the most trouble between the ages of 1-4. So, I feel that with Duncan we may be entering the phase where he will have the most trouble....


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

i have nothing to add which will help....sara..i just hope everything turns out well.....


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## nykea (Jun 15, 2011)

Hello, Sarah, I promise that I'll try to write the e mail soon!! But in the meantime I wanted to share here, because I think that this info will be of use to everyone. My dog was diagnosed with HU about a month ago, since then had 3 urianalyses, one on prescription food (Hill's u/d) and 2 on modified Barf. The modified Barf worked better than prescription food! But what I'm trying to say now, is that I will have a meeting with specialist nutritionist to discuss the exact diet I will be feeding him, so hopefully I will be able to post a scientifically approved home-made diet!! Will keep you guys informed


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

nykea...thanks for letting us know. i know i don't know enough about this condition.....and i would be interested...

and sarah....do let us know how things go....


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