# Looking for a food



## lovemydogsalways (Mar 4, 2012)

Do you know of any grain free foods from a good company with 27% protein? I am feeding a food with 30% protein right now. I want to see if changing the protein will change my dogs ph and protein in their urine. It really was not that high at all, but I am curious if it is the protein causing it like my vet said. Which I know I know vets and protein..... 
I did see Pinnacle has 27% in two formulas, but they use canola oil.


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## apriliamille (Aug 28, 2013)

does it have to be 27 percent? redmoon 1337 chicken and potato doesnt have canola oil. its a 23 percent protein 376 kcal/cup ALS. we use it with our dobe pup and adult boxer

Chicken, Chicken Meal, Dried Potato, Potato Starch, Chicken Liver, Chicken Fat (Naturally Preserved With Mixed Tocopherols), Salmon Oil (Naturally Preserved With Mixed Tocopherols), Cranberries, Papaya, Carrots, Broccoli, Tomato, Sea Salt, Potassium Chloride, Dried Chicory Root, Dried Aspergillus Niger Fermentation Extract, Dried Aspergillus Oryzae Fermentation Extract, Dried Enterococcus Faecium Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product, Vitamin E Supplement, L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (Source of Vitamin C), Beta-carotene, Niacin Supplement, Inosital, Thiamin Mononitrate, D-calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin Supplement, Biotin, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Folic Acid, Zinc Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Selenium Methionine, Manganese Proteinate, Calcium Iodate.


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## apriliamille (Aug 28, 2013)

the G.A.

Guaranteed Analysis:
Amount per Serving: 
Crude Protein (min) 23.00%
Crude Fat (min) 12.00%
Crude Fiber (max) 3.00%
Moisture (max) 9.00%
Ash (max) 4.50%
Calcium (min) 1.00%
Phosphorous (min) 0.90%
Omega 6* (min) 3.00%
Omega 3* (min) 0.40%
Total Microorganisms* (min) 90,000,000 CFU/Lb
Glucosamine* (min) 1200 mg/kg
Chondroitin Sulphate (min) 1200 mg/kg
Calorie Content: 
ME (calculated) 3760 Kcal / Kg
ME (calculated) 376 Kcal / Cup (250 ml)


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## lovemydogsalways (Mar 4, 2012)

apriliamille said:


> does it have to be 27 percent? redmoon 1337 chicken and potato doesnt have canola oil. its a 23 percent protein 376 kcal/cup ALS. we use it with our dobe pup and adult boxer
> 
> Chicken, Chicken Meal, Dried Potato, Potato Starch, Chicken Liver, Chicken Fat (Naturally Preserved With Mixed Tocopherols), Salmon Oil (Naturally Preserved With Mixed Tocopherols), Cranberries, Papaya, Carrots, Broccoli, Tomato, Sea Salt, Potassium Chloride, Dried Chicory Root, Dried Aspergillus Niger Fermentation Extract, Dried Aspergillus Oryzae Fermentation Extract, Dried Enterococcus Faecium Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product, Vitamin E Supplement, L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (Source of Vitamin C), Beta-carotene, Niacin Supplement, Inosital, Thiamin Mononitrate, D-calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin Supplement, Biotin, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Folic Acid, Zinc Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Selenium Methionine, Manganese Proteinate, Calcium Iodate.


I should have said I would prefer to not go below 26%. Just another preference of mine, but thank you very much for the suggestion.


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## flashyfawn (Mar 8, 2012)

Have you looked at Petcurean's Now line? I don't remember if they use canola oil but I think all the Now formulas are in the mid-20's for protein. I'm not feeding it right now but I have in the past, with great results. I think their Go formulas are probably higher in protein than you want.


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## apriliamille (Aug 28, 2013)

victor limited ingredient 27/12 duck or buffalo. no canola oil makes it hard 

US Duck, Tapioca, Yams, Bok Choy, Zucchini, Blueberries, Freeze Dried New Zealand Mussel, Freeze Dried Kale Sprouts, Freeze Dried Red Clover Sprouts, Inulin, Enzymes (Amylase, Protease, Cellulase, Pectinase, Lipase, Phytase, Xylanese, Hemicellulase, Alpha-galactosidase, Invertase) Probiotics in a micro-encapsulated complex (Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product Dehydrated, Lactobacillus Rhamnosus Fermentation Product Dehydrated, Lactobacillus Casei Fermentation Product Dehydrated,Lactobacillus Plantarum Fermentation Product Dehydrated, Bifidobacterium Thermophilum Fermentation Product Dehydrated, Bifidobacterium Longum Fermentation Product Dehydrated, Enterococcus Faecium Fermentation Product Dehydrated, Bacillus Subtillus Fermentation Product Dehydrated), Vitamins (Dl-methione, Lecithin, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Thiamone Mononitrate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin Supplement, Niacin Supplement, Folic Acid) Minerals (Calcium Pantothenate, Zinc Amino Acid Chelate, Iron Amino Acid Chelate, Copper Amino Acids Chelate, Manganese Amino Acids Chelate, Cobalt Amino Acids Chelate, Selenium), Wild Salmon Oil


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## lovemydogsalways (Mar 4, 2012)

flashyfawn said:


> Have you looked at Petcurean's Now line? I don't remember if they use canola oil but I think all the Now formulas are in the mid-20's for protein. I'm not feeding it right now but I have in the past, with great results. I think their Go formulas are probably higher in protein than you want.


I forgot I had looked at them! oh man it has canola oil


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## lovemydogsalways (Mar 4, 2012)

apriliamille said:


> victor limited ingredient 27/12 duck or buffalo. no canola oil makes it hard
> 
> US Duck, Tapioca, Yams, Bok Choy, Zucchini, Blueberries, Freeze Dried New Zealand Mussel, Freeze Dried Kale Sprouts, Freeze Dried Red Clover Sprouts, Inulin, Enzymes (Amylase, Protease, Cellulase, Pectinase, Lipase, Phytase, Xylanese, Hemicellulase, Alpha-galactosidase, Invertase) Probiotics in a micro-encapsulated complex (Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product Dehydrated, Lactobacillus Rhamnosus Fermentation Product Dehydrated, Lactobacillus Casei Fermentation Product Dehydrated,Lactobacillus Plantarum Fermentation Product Dehydrated, Bifidobacterium Thermophilum Fermentation Product Dehydrated, Bifidobacterium Longum Fermentation Product Dehydrated, Enterococcus Faecium Fermentation Product Dehydrated, Bacillus Subtillus Fermentation Product Dehydrated), Vitamins (Dl-methione, Lecithin, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Thiamone Mononitrate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin Supplement, Niacin Supplement, Folic Acid) Minerals (Calcium Pantothenate, Zinc Amino Acid Chelate, Iron Amino Acid Chelate, Copper Amino Acids Chelate, Manganese Amino Acids Chelate, Cobalt Amino Acids Chelate, Selenium), Wild Salmon Oil


I don't see that one on the website.


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## apriliamille (Aug 28, 2013)

go to victorpet.com then select grain free then scroll to bottom and you will see the two limited ingredient options


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## apriliamille (Aug 28, 2013)

Victor Dog Food Online


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## Kikki (Jul 27, 2013)

27% protein, no canola oil (they use sunflower oil though)

Back to Basics Grain Free Dog Food | Review and Rating


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## Shamrockmommy (Sep 10, 2009)

The Fromm 4star grain frees would be close to 27. I am not sure if they have canola oil. I'd have to look to be sure.


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## Michigal (Feb 17, 2013)

Meagan,

I'm not going to second guess your vet, but it's usually the quality of the protein, as opposed to the levels. I take it this is for Emma? 

You do hunt with her, so you do want to be sure she's getting good protein, and of course you want to make sure her immune system is staying on an even keel.

This is the same level as you're feeding now (30%) but I'm going to have to say I'm so impressed with the looks of this food (AND the price) that I'm getting ready to order it right now. Check the ash levels. *2.1%* I'd say that's some quality protein. And it's* GMO FREE*!!!!!

FWIW, I pay only $3 less for my Earthborn, and that's a 28 lb bag. This is a 40 lb bag. It's not grain free, but sorghum? That's used in gluten free cooking. Much better than other grains. Carbs are 30%. Very acceptable level.

Victor Dog Food Online


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## FarminaND (May 23, 2013)

Michigal said:


> Meagan,
> 
> I'm not going to second guess your vet, but it's usually the quality of the protein, as opposed to the levels. I take it this is for Emma?
> 
> ...


You are reading that wrong. The Ash is about 9%. You are reading the Calcium level. I would say that Beef Meal is not a good quality source of protein because it is largely bone meal and very inexpensive much like Pork Meal. 83% protein from animal sources is very low for a 30% protein food.


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## Dr Dolittle (Aug 2, 2013)

lovemydogsalways said:


> Do you know of any grain free foods from a good company with 27% protein? I am feeding a food with 30% protein right now. I want to see if changing the protein will change my dogs ph and protein in their urine. It really was not that high at all, but I am curious if it is the protein causing it like my vet said. Which I know I know vets and protein.....
> I did see Pinnacle has 27% in two formulas, but they use canola oil.


Hey I lovely dogs always, It's not as simple as a percentage number. If you are comparing ph and protein in urine, there are other tests as well but a food cold be 27% protein and let's say a 18% fat. hats a high energy level so the dog will eat less food. Another food at 27% protein might have a fat level of only 12 % fat, which means the dog will consume more, thus getting more protein. Make sense? The other issue is if the food has more non meat protein sources, it is delivering all the amino acids but non meat protein sources produce less nitrogen waste and lower protein levels produced. Farmina can comment on this more with hi high protein, grain free, but controlled phosphorus levels his company produces.

In my experience it takes quite a change in protein quality and sources to get the blood and urine tests to change and improve.I commend your vet for his interest!


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## Michigal (Feb 17, 2013)

FarminaND said:


> You are reading that wrong. The Ash is about 9%. You are reading the Calcium level. I would say that Beef Meal is not a good quality source of protein because it is largely bone meal and very inexpensive much like Pork Meal. 83% protein from animal sources is very low for a 30% protein food.


Actually, I didn't read it wrong. The page is formatted wrong. I see that now. But it's still way less than the ~11-12% ash in the food I have been feeding them. Thanks for catching that. 

So, I would say it's a normal level of ash.


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## lovemydogsalways (Mar 4, 2012)

Michigal said:


> Meagan,
> 
> I'm not going to second guess your vet, but it's usually the quality of the protein, as opposed to the levels. I take it this is for Emma?
> 
> ...


It is for Emma and Patch. Emma's ph was slightly high which I am guessing is because of her Lyme. Patch had high ph level too, only by 1.5% though. The vet thouht maybe she was just dehydrated, but she did mention protein in food. I do know that Vets' thinking is still that higher protein harms kidneys. Which I do not belive, but if her levels are going to be wonky I do want to see if I can change that. 
They are currently eating Annamaet Salcha. I think Annamaet is a great company, has low ash, and I believe their protein to be good quality. Maybe I should just stick with it. 
Canola oil is GMO correct or did I read that wrong? I believe Hershey123 to be on another forum I am on and he is being his usual self saying canola oil is just fine and non-GMO and that the link I provided is incorrect.


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## Michigal (Feb 17, 2013)

Meagan, about 29% of the rapeseed that canola oil is made from is GMO (Roundup-ready). The problem is, you don't know which one is in the dog food, unless it's certified GMO free. 

Oh and Hershey has found a new home? *sigh*

I'm adding this info I posted from the other forum:

That said, not all canola oil is genetically modified. It was originally created using standard hybridization. But of course, Monsanto had to get their paws into it, to infuse it with their roundup resistance technology. About 29% of the canola oil is made from Roundup ready genetic engineering. But there's no way to tell which one you're getting, since there are no requirements for labeling.

That's my main reason for not liking it, but also, it's really not as good of an oil as it was initially made out to be, particularly for dogs. If you can't have chicken fat in the food (which is actually a good fat) due to sensitivities, a better alternative is sunflower oil. It's the way it's processed. Although this article refers to olive oil, it's relevant in that it explains the difference:
Olive Oil vs. Canola Oil / Nutrition / Healthy Eating

And in an article at Mercola, Beware of Canola Oil

which brings up why I don't buy it for personal use, either:One problem with canola oil is that it has to be partially hydrogenated or refined before it is used commercially and consequently is a source of trans fatty acids; sometimes at very high levels.Another problem is that it is too unsaturated to be used exclusively in the diet; some of the undesirable effects caused by feeding canola can be rectified if the diet is made higher in saturated fatty acids.


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## lovemydogsalways (Mar 4, 2012)

Michigal said:


> Meagan, about 29% of the rapeseed that canola oil is made from is GMO (Roundup-ready). The problem is, you don't know which one is in the dog food, unless it's certified GMO free.
> 
> Oh and Hershey has found a new home? *sigh*
> 
> ...


 So to me it sounds best to avoid. To bad because allot of foods have it. Oh of course you know him. At least the writing style is his. I think I will stick with Annamaet and just check their urine and kidney levels regular. Be easy and decent price working in a clinic like I do.


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## riddick4811 (Nov 2, 2011)

apriliamille said:


> victor limited ingredient 27/12 duck or buffalo. no canola oil makes it hard
> 
> US Duck, Tapioca, Yams, Bok Choy, Zucchini, Blueberries, Freeze Dried New Zealand Mussel, Freeze Dried Kale Sprouts, Freeze Dried Red Clover Sprouts, Inulin, Enzymes (Amylase, Protease, Cellulase, Pectinase, Lipase, Phytase, Xylanese, Hemicellulase, Alpha-galactosidase, Invertase) Probiotics in a micro-encapsulated complex (Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product Dehydrated, Lactobacillus Rhamnosus Fermentation Product Dehydrated, Lactobacillus Casei Fermentation Product Dehydrated,Lactobacillus Plantarum Fermentation Product Dehydrated, Bifidobacterium Thermophilum Fermentation Product Dehydrated, Bifidobacterium Longum Fermentation Product Dehydrated, Enterococcus Faecium Fermentation Product Dehydrated, Bacillus Subtillus Fermentation Product Dehydrated), Vitamins (Dl-methione, Lecithin, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Thiamone Mononitrate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin Supplement, Niacin Supplement, Folic Acid) Minerals (Calcium Pantothenate, Zinc Amino Acid Chelate, Iron Amino Acid Chelate, Copper Amino Acids Chelate, Manganese Amino Acids Chelate, Cobalt Amino Acids Chelate, Selenium), Wild Salmon Oil


That is not made by Victor. It is made by Great Life. natural pet food, holistic dog food, organic dog food, premium dog food, healthy dog food, pet treats, dog treats, greenies, eagle pack, nutro dog food, primal dog food, raw dog food, premium dog kibble, freeze dried treats, canned dog food, puppy fo


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## Michigal (Feb 17, 2013)

Meagan, I totally forgot about the adult Victor. Their beef adult professional or performance is a 26/18 protein/fat

http://www.midamericapetfood.com/victordogfood/pdf/Brochure-Pro.pdf (Professional)

http://www.midamericapetfood.com/victordogfood/pdf/Brochure-Performance.pdf (Performance with glucosamine)

You may even have a retailer near you. Or the place in New York does offer free shipping on orders over $50.


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## apriliamille (Aug 28, 2013)

riddick4811 said:


> That is not made by Victor. It is made by Great Life. natural pet food, holistic dog food, organic dog food, premium dog food, healthy dog food, pet treats, dog treats, greenies, eagle pack, nutro dog food, primal dog food, raw dog food, premium dog kibble, freeze dried treats, canned dog food, puppy fo


woops. didnt really look too close at the label. just remember seeing it on the victorpet website


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## riddick4811 (Nov 2, 2011)

Michigal said:


> Meagan, I totally forgot about the adult Victor. Their beef adult professional or performance is a 26/18 protein/fat
> 
> http://www.midamericapetfood.com/victordogfood/pdf/Brochure-Pro.pdf (Professional)
> 
> ...


My very active Greyhound puppy did better on the Victor Performance (green bag) over the higher protein/fat formulas. I ended up going back to raw, but if I were going to buy kibble, it would be that one. It also worked very well for my adult Greyhound, French Bulldog and Boston Terrier.


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## lovemydogsalways (Mar 4, 2012)

Michigal said:


> Meagan, I totally forgot about the adult Victor. Their beef adult professional or performance is a 26/18 protein/fat
> 
> http://www.midamericapetfood.com/victordogfood/pdf/Brochure-Pro.pdf (Professional)
> 
> ...


Sue, I just typed in my address and they do not ship to my location. Will have to get it from Amazon if I do decide to try it.


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