# 1:1:8 PMR question



## VeatchsMama (Oct 24, 2011)

So I love the pmr guide but I have a question. The 1:1:8 ratio... Is that a daily or weekly goal? They state the organs be spread out or one exclusive meal. Feeding morning and night that's 14 meals organ being only in 1.5 meals? So are the bones spread out to be in 1.5 meal of the 14 meals or is it necessary to have in every meal?


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## hmbutler (Aug 4, 2011)

I don't think anyone can really answer this for you... They can tell you what they do, but that's not to say it'll work for you too. I know some try to balance the 80/10/10 though each meal, others do it over a whole week, others it might be over a month. It's just a matter of what works for you. And some dogs will always need more than 10% bone, others may only need 5%. It's all just a guide to get you started, and once you're in the swing of things, you adjust it so the routine suits your dog and their needs :smile: try not to worry too much about it! It'll come with time, and you're not going to kill ur dog during the adjusting stage :tongue: lol


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## 3Musketeers (Nov 4, 2010)

It can be weekly. As long as they get their organs, and some bone, it's all good. The 80:10:10 is only a guideline so don't get too caught up in numbers, the important thing is to find which ratio works best for your dog.
For example, with my brats, they do better on bone-in meals almost every day, they get maybe 1 or 2 boneless meals a week, and a tiny bit of organ (maybe 5% combined) twice a week.

However, you will find that with organs, if you feed a small amount on a regular basis instead of one large meal, you will see more consistent poops. I wouldn't recommend that you feed any organ for at least the first week or two, until Veatch is having solid, consistent poops, since they are very rich and may cause a case of cannon-butt.

This site has a great starting guide: How to Get Started | Prey Model Raw
If you follow it step by step all should go really well :biggrin:


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

The 80-10-10 is a guideline. My dogs need considerable more bone to maintain firm stools. They also get loose stools from larger sportions of liver or organ even too much heart meat can cause loose stools due to richness. I try to get the boen to meat ration rpoetty much daily and add organ in several times per week because mine do not do well with large portions of liver/organ. Here is a sample of a week - keep in mind meats available change with the seasons for us as things go on sale, during the summer they get more ribs and even a little ground beef because I can get a great price and in November/December they get lots of turkey because again i can get them on sale. But here is the current week (no set schedule)

Sunday - Turkey neck, liver, small chunk of beef
Monday - Pork heart and chicken back
Tuesday - Turkey hearts, chicken quarters
Wednesday - Turkey necks and liver
Thursday - Beef heart and chicken backs
Friday - Chicken legs, sardines and kidney
Saturday - lamb lung, trachea and chicken back.
Both my collies and shelties get the same diet just appropriate amount and puppies eat the same as adults.Hope that gives you and idea.


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## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

I think as long as you feed mostly meat, some bone and some organ you are fine. Different animals have different percentages of bone- chicken is near 30%. Mine do fine with a lot of bone in their diet. Also, there is a LOT of bone in high quality kibbles. Chicken meal for example is mostly bone and connective tissue with very little meat- so kibble generally has a large amount of calcium.. using this logic I just don't worry about it! Go by their poops, if they are fine, you are fine. :smile:


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## VeatchsMama (Oct 24, 2011)

hmbutler said:


> I don't think anyone can really answer this for you... They can tell you what they do, but that's not to say it'll work for you too. I know some try to balance the 80/10/10 though each meal, others do it over a whole week, others it might be over a month. It's just a matter of what works for you. And some dogs will always need more than 10% bone, others may only need 5%. It's all just a guide to get you started, and once you're in the swing of things, you adjust it so the routine suits your dog and their needs :smile: try not to worry too much about it! It'll come with time, and you're not going to kill ur dog during the adjusting stage :tongue: lol


Well that's the thing. I haven't started yet and what I'm hoping us to get the first two weeks of chicken like the pmr guide suggests. Maybe even get the first month worthy of meat, bone, and get the hang of it.


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## KittyKat (Feb 11, 2011)

Piper gets a lot of bone... usually a chicken back every morning. At night its usually beef (heart or stewing beef)or fish (sardines/cod/something) and she gets beef(calf) liver for her organs.


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

It sounds like you are trying to decide what to buy. I would start with chicken backs for at least the first week , possibly two. If you can't get back I would get quarters. The other thing you could do is buy a couple of whole chickens and cut them down yourself (there is a utube video showing how to cut down a turkey which is basically the same. I would also buy a small amount of liver either chicken or beef but just a little it is not a huge amount and you probably wont add this in til a couple months down the orad unless your dogs soes really, really well on richer meat. The second protein I would go to is turkey. Turkey necks are great but Thanksgiving is coming up and you can get incredible proces for turkey and cut it down your self. After that probably pork. Pork ribs, roasts and necks if you can get them in a large enouge cur are great.Pork hearts are nice too. Hope that gives you a little start.


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

You know, I've never followed the 80/10/10 rule, or anything. I just go with a mixture meat, bones and organs and adjust according to each dogs needs. For the most part, only Copper seems to need more bone than Aussie & Lucky. Just the slightest bit of boneless seems to get her a case of cannon butt. So more for her, but over all I just keep an eye on them weight and poop wise an they are doing fine like that.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

since you're just starting out, the 80 - 10 - 10 guideline doesn't yet apply.

this is a balance over time kind of thing...

plus, we have transition and transition is not 80- 10 - 10....it's bone with some chicken attached.

you can use carcasses, backs.....but starting with chicken is easiest on your dog's digestion, helps keep his stools firm....and begins the process of changing from one way of eating to another.

feeding prey model raw is also about going agonisingly slow......and myself included, sometimes we get very excited in the beginning...it's a whole new way of life, so i know for me, i was in that grocery store, buying up everything for 'when i'd need it'.

well, half the stuff i bought, i never used....because i had no idea what i was doing and because some of what i bought wasn't going to be appropriate....or i bought too much of something...liver was my downfall...even now, i have way too much liver....it'll take them years to get through all the liver i bought LOL

so, for now, you want to think bony meals....and weight appropriate....fastest way to give your dog loose stools is to overfeed.

so if your dog weighs 35 lbs and that's a good weight...
you're going to feed approximately 11 ounces a day.....

for the first few days, i would feed 8 ounces per day......the dog won't starve....although you'll think he's starving because he'll act like he's starving...don't give in 

after a few weeks of bony chicken.....and watching his stools....you'll know whether to strip the skin off or leave it on....you'll know if you can add boneless because the stools are chalky.....so that means he's getting too much bone and needs some boneless..

in those two weeks, it's a learning curve for you and the dog....

and then you'll go to turkey and then you'll go to pork and then you'll go to fish if he'll eat it and then they mighty beef which is very rich and you'll start out very small and then organs which are even richer so you'll start out very small to get him used to organs....

but not yet....you have plenty of time...honest you do..and by then...you'll start to understand your dog which is of utmost importance....

some dogs need more bone than others....some less...

the ten per cent organs is five per cent liver and five per cent another organ, such as kidney, spleen, pancreas, brains, thymus, and i forget what else is organ.

some things you'll feed are heart and lung...which are muscle meats with a little extra punch to them...very nutritious and richer than other muscle meats...

you have time....


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## monkeys23 (Dec 8, 2010)

Lol, don't do what I did.... I did not transition Lily slowly. At all. She was fine though. Most dogs wouldn't be, its definitely a know thy dog sort of thing.

I shoot for balance over a week usually. I have to be careful to keep Lily right around 10% bone, otherwise its too much for her. She eats about 0.75-1lb a day and my other dog eats about 1-1.25lb a day.... so basically two pounds of food total a day give or take. Scout used to require more bone in, but her system seems to be changing to need to be closer to the 80/10/10 over the past few months. Different dogs digestive systems adjust at different rates.

This doesn't really illustrate the different variety of things they get, but gives a picture of how often I feed RMB's and organ meat.
Mon - boneless am & pm 
Tues - Boneless am & RMB + liver in the pm
Wed - Boneless
Th - Same as Tues, but with kidney
Fr - Boneless
Sat - boneless am & RMB + liver in pm
Sun - Boneless am & RMB + kidney in pm


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## Kat (Jul 12, 2011)

Im not into introing organs yet, but for bone my pug can go about 4-5 meals before her poops start going soft so I add more bone. Still in the slow transition to beef, because of its richness its taking a lot longer with beef than the other proteins I am feeding. Like everyone else said, you just have to watch your dog and watch their poops. I have been on raw for 2.5 months now, and its the best switch I ever made for my dog.


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## rory (Oct 4, 2011)

So, sorry if this has been asked and answered before - but do I *need* to feed boneless meals? If a chicken is naturally 30% or so bone, and I am aiming for a prey model, when I feed chicken wouldn't I strive for 30% bone and the rest meat and some organ?


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

Chicken would not be a primary source of meat in the wild - deer, elk, etc sould be less than 30% edible bone. Go by what your dogs need. Mine need more bone, a friend has dogs who eat about half the bone mine do.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

rory said:


> So, sorry if this has been asked and answered before - but do I *need* to feed boneless meals? If a chicken is naturally 30% or so bone, and I am aiming for a prey model, when I feed chicken wouldn't I strive for 30% bone and the rest meat and some organ?


chicken is the protein we start with, generally, for a few reasons..

the bones are softer for a newly transitioned dog who has a weak mouth, teeth, jaw and neck muscles
the meat is easier to digest 

but as your dog gets used to chicken, then slowly other proteins are going to be introduced....dogs thrive on red meat....

as liz says, some dogs need more bone than others....but no dog needs too much bone...


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## shellbell (Sep 24, 2011)

magicre said:


> feeding prey model raw is also about going agonisingly slow......and myself included, sometimes we get very excited in the beginning...it's a whole new way of life, so i know for me, i was in that grocery store, buying up everything for 'when i'd need it'.


Haha, this is sort of how I was/am. I'm in week five of my raw transition, and I get so excited about shopping for meat. Right from the beginning I was buying things like organs (liver!) that I wouldn't even need for awhile. And just last week I bought some beef heart/kidney/more liver. And also fun things like rabbit, bison, lamb ribs, and whiting fillets. I've got a huge freezer packed full of meat, really I probably have enough to last me for awhile. I'm not going to do any organs for probably another couple of weeks, but they are doing great on beef which I introduced last weekend...so I think this weekend I will introduce something else, and after a couple weeks of a couple new proteins and no issues, will bring on the organs! 

I almost feel like when feeding raw, you tend to spend more money the first month or two...at least I am. B/c I am buying fun things for when the boys are ready to eat them, and holding on to them. But then there are also basic things that I have to make sure I have in stock (like chicken quarters and turkey necks), and that they eat often since I like to introduce new things while "framing" them with meals before and after that consist of boney things I know they do well on. If they were fully transitioned, I could stop buying anything new for awhile and just toss them whatever I have right now in the freezer without worrying about having something basic and boney to feed along with it. Does that make sense?


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

truth be told, it's almost two years later....and i'm just starting to slow down a little....and only because my freezers are filled to the brim. 

i give the advice. i don't listen to it.

the one thing i learned was to go very slowly in the intro, because i went too fast, too much and got hit with icky results....and then i slowed down introducing the proteins....and they were fine.

buying them is another story


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## pogo (Aug 28, 2011)

I feed the 8:1:1 over a 2 week period and do remember it's only a guideline, as my have more like 30% ish worth of bone in their diet and get at least 1 bone in meal a deal sometimes both are.


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## Khan (Jan 17, 2010)

Well first off, just know that as everyone said, it is only a guideline. Good thing; because if I actually had to calculate any sort of math, well, I would have stopped feeding this way a looong time ago!! I am seriously mathematically challenged LOL!! so that would have been a deal breaker for me.!! :biggrin:
Mine actually do better with one bone in meal every day, and a little bit of organ every day vs. a large organ meal. 
The only thing that I think is pretty much consistent with everyone's dog, is they will absolutely love love love their food, and they will see who in the family is the "Weak Link" to try and convince them they are starving and they should be fed more!! 
Go slow, pay attention to your dogs poop, and you are Home Free!! LOL!!


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