# recommendation for senior



## dracore (Feb 17, 2011)

Hi all,

I need some recommendations for my senior 12yr malamute. In the past we fed him Eagle Pack Senior (which became Holistic select) and he had solid stools.

In the past I have tried changing him to Orijen but he got runny stools even when I introduced it slowly. I am guessing too high protein? (but I thought high protein is typically good for seniors?)

Now I'm on Fromm Gold Senior and stool score is about 75%... so not quite solid and still soft. I would prefer to get it closer to 90-100%.
Any recommendations on what I could try next?


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## cast71 (Sep 16, 2010)

Hi, higher protein is better for seniors. It helps them keep there muscle mass. You might be overfeeding. Do not go by the bag. Reduce the food in small increments, until you have perfect body type and stools. A leaner senior will enjoy life better;0) I like acana and the praire formula is not that bad on price. It's at around 33% protein and 17% fat. I would add extra cooked meats. It's more absorbable protein, fat and nutrients than kibble alone. If acana is out of your price range, than find a decent kibble and supplement with extra meat. It's much superior to any kibble only diet and your dogs will love it;0)


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## practicalfeeder (Feb 12, 2011)

dracore said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I need some recommendations for my senior 12yr malamute. In the past we fed him Eagle Pack Senior (which became Holistic select) and he had solid stools.
> 
> ...


You will find with seniors, every day is different. They lose the ability to digest many things efficiently as they age, most notably fat. Stay at 15% or below.

Stay away from Orijen. I don't see any expertise in that company at all, just a 
plagiarised marketing document,

I would use a large breed formula, and regular Eagle Pack is a tried and true food, but so is Fromm.

You might try some digestive enzymes because as time goes on digestive efficiency will decline.


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## dracore (Feb 17, 2011)

practicalfeeder said:


> You will find with seniors, every day is different. They lose the ability to digest many things efficiently as they age, most notably fat. Stay at 15% or below.
> 
> Stay away from Orijen. I don't see any expertise in that company at all, just a
> plagiarised marketing document,
> ...


Eagle Pack still good? I think maybe that's the reason why I wanted to switch out of it was because of the change to Holistic Select and that it wasn't grain free. Although interestingly my dog did well on it... and it may have a higher protein count than the Fromm Senior I'm feeding him now.


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## GermanSheperdlover (Nov 15, 2009)

practicalfeeder has no clue what he is talking about and it is very obvious he works for another dog food company.

Orijen and Champion foods are by far theee best mass produced dog food kibble made today. I DO NOT work for them or any other dog food company, but when I see someone ""repeatedly"" bash a great company like Champion, I "know" they work for a dirt bag company. Maybe abady??

Champion Petfoods | Home


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## dracore (Feb 17, 2011)

cast71 said:


> Hi, higher protein is better for seniors. It helps them keep there muscle mass. You might be overfeeding. Do not go by the bag. Reduce the food in small increments, until you have perfect body type and stools. A leaner senior will enjoy life better;0) I like acana and the praire formula is not that bad on price. It's at around 33% protein and 17% fat. I would add extra cooked meats. It's more absorbable protein, fat and nutrients than kibble alone. If acana is out of your price range, than find a decent kibble and supplement with extra meat. It's much superior to any kibble only diet and your dogs will love it;0)


Yeah I don't think I'm overfeeding. I feed him about 1.5cups in the morning and 2 cups at night. Recommended is 4 cups total. Any less and I think I'm going to be starving my dog!
I wanted to try a sample of acana but couldn't find any... but I was concerned that its high protein, like Orijen, would be too much for my old guy to handle.


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## GermanSheperdlover (Nov 15, 2009)

Here is a list of some very fine dog foods.

The A list
1.	Orijen
2.	Acana, Harvest, pacifica & grassland Only.
3.	Horizon Legacy
4.	Taste of the Wild, wetlands & prairie, ONLY.
5.	GO, grain free /Endurance Only.
6.	Fromm, 4 star.
7.	Merrick
8.	Wellness Core
9.	Blue Wilderness
10.	Acana, the rest of Acana products.
11.	Artemis

The B list
1. GO, the rest of their products.
2. Evangers
3. Timberwolf
4. Fromm, the rest of their products.
5. Instinct
6. Wellness super 5 mix
7. Now, Grain free. 
8. Solid Gold
9. Precise Holistic Complete, Only.
10. Natures Logic
11. Pinnacle
12. First Mate
13. Kirkland or Natural Domain, Costco!(mainly because of cost)
14. Now, the rest of their products.

The C list
1.	Nutrisource
2.	Evo
3.	Chicken soup for the dog lovers soul
4.	Exclusive
5.	Pure Vita
6.	Canidae, Grain Free ALS, Only.
7.	Wellness 
8.	Earthborn
9.	Annamaet
10.	Organix
11.	Natural Balance, not all are good!
12.	Whole Earth farms, this well move up!
13.	Premium Edge
14.	Innova


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## kevin bradley (Aug 9, 2009)

Orijen is an elite food and probably the best kibble you can buy anywhere. 

I'm not gonna split hairs to argue over Orijen vs. Wellness...both sides have merit. 

However, a blanket statement that Orijen is a "bad" food makes me wonder if that practical cat isn't just out here to stir up trouble. 

It would be akin to saying "Michael Jordan sucked as a basketball player."


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## kevin bradley (Aug 9, 2009)

GermanSheperdlover said:


> Here is a list of some very fine dog foods.
> 
> The A list
> 1.	Orijen
> ...




GSL,

I have to ask, whey the lower rating of EVO? Its loaded with meat and protein. I'm assuming its because you don't agree with the PG thing. I'll let you answer though.


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## practicalfeeder (Feb 12, 2011)

GermanSheperdlover said:


> practicalfeeder has no clue what he is talking about and it is very obvious he works for another dog food company.
> 
> Orijen and Champion foods are by far theee best mass produced dog food kibble made today. I DO NOT work for them or any other dog food company, but when I see someone ""repeatedly"" bash a great company like Champion, I "know" they work for a dirt bag company. Maybe abady??
> 
> Champion Petfoods | Home


You said you were feeding Holistic Select and your dog was doing fine. Grain-free foods have their place but there is virtually no difference between the carbohydrates from a potato compared to rice, corn, barley, oats, etc.

Don't feel you have to spend the money because some honkers on a website say one food is better than an other.

Orijen is no better than any food half it price. You will not notice any difference except your wallet will be much lighter. It is just a game where you lose. Feeding trials have proven that the measurable benefits between different prices points of dogs foods is ZERO for companion animals. A normal dog will be just as healthy on Dog Chow as anything else. Despite what you read many people try Orijen and reach the same conclusion. About 50%.

When it comes to real working dogs, trust me they don't eat grain-free foods and they don't eat Orijen. 

Stick to what has been working and don't listen to people that just read labels. A dog is not nourished by ingredients rather a dog is nourished by nutrients. The science is how this occurs, how food is processed and what is the measurable result. Just because the labels reads well and the bag looks pretty does not mean your dog will benefit.

Don't pay for berries and herbs that have no measurable benefit.

It is all just a gimmick. Feeds what pros feed and I can GTY they don't pay $70 for a 28lb bag of food.


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## stajbs (Jun 5, 2010)

dracore,

Just a suggestion for your consideration. I would give the Acana or Orijen a try if your mal has no health issues, and even if he does see if you think one of the formulas may work. Another suggestion I would make is going to sleddogcentral and joining up. There are some feeding threads there as well. I would love to hear what Abenaki Mals or Quinnault Mals would suggest for your mal. They both show and work their mals. Our remaining siberians came from Abenaki Mals(they rescued them for us and we went to pick them up). When I have health issues with my sibes I am always in touch with Abenaki Mals she is a vet tech and a nutrition guru. She definitely believes in raw feeding but she it totally up on the kibble options as well. She feeds both, depending on the dog. There are tons of foods listed on the site as well, but I would not necessarily consider all of them to be great options. Some are, and some are not. 

practicalfeeder has been all over the forums the past few days posting inconsistent and bashing comments about various foods. Food is an individual choice. Keep researching and you will find what works for your dog. What practicalfeeder is perhaps forgetting to mention is that many of the folks with "working dogs" such as alaskan huskies, siberians, mals often supplement their kibble with meat, snacks that are usually meat and fat. It takes a lot of calories to fuel a dog running the Iditarod or Yukon Quest or weight pulling for that matter. Quinnault and Abenaki have dogs that do well both running, weight pulling and showing.

Good luck finding what works, am sure you will!!


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## cast71 (Sep 16, 2010)

practicalfeeder said:


> You might try some digestive enzymes because as time goes on digestive efficiency will decline.


Talk about wasting money, Probiotics never make it to the gut ahahahaahahaha Save your money on scientific voodoo and buy more fresh meats. Proper nutrition is the only way to increase digestion efficiency. And I'd rather feed diamond natural with a good amount of fresh meat than your anamaet or propac any day. And I agree with you about potatoes being just as bad as grains;0) It's all low nutritious, difficult to process garbage. :ban: Might as well fill a land fill with it ahahaahahahaha Ridiculous of all the health issues they cause. Has no place on any plate, dog or human. Imagine all the health problems that would be solved. I'll keep dreaming.


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## DarDog (Sep 6, 2010)

> Yeah I don't think I'm overfeeding. I feed him about 1.5cups in the morning and 2 cups at night. Recommended is 4 cups total. Any less and I think I'm going to be starving my dog!


You are actually probably ok to decrease the feeding amount further*. Runny poops as mentioned before are sign of over-feeding. And, Orijen has more digestible energy than other kibbles, so you should be reducing in that sense as well. And again, your dog will act hungry no matter what! 

*We just switched our very skinny (as in, you can see alllll of his ribs ) Vizsla pup from Fromm 4 star to Acana prairie. He was getting 5 cups a day on Fromm. Since the switch to Acana he has all of a sudden started to fill out, and we are down to 4 cups - I am guessing we will probably have to reduce further.


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## baggie (Jun 2, 2010)

dracore said:


> Yeah I don't think I'm overfeeding. I feed him about 1.5cups in the morning and 2 cups at night. Recommended is 4 cups total. Any less and I think I'm going to be starving my dog!
> I wanted to try a sample of acana but couldn't find any... but I was concerned that its high protein, like Orijen, would be too much for my old guy to handle.


I'd try cutting back more on the Orijen before I gave up on it. The package on EVO recommends I feed a cup to my pup and give 1/2 a cup. I know you may think you're starving your pal, but let his body guide you. It won't lie.


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## dracore (Feb 17, 2011)

practicalfeeder said:


> You said you were feeding Holistic Select and your dog was doing fine. Grain-free foods have their place but there is virtually no difference between the carbohydrates from a potato compared to rice, corn, barley, oats, etc.
> 
> Don't feel you have to spend the money because some honkers on a website say one food is better than an other.
> 
> ...


In Canada I'm paying about $71 + tax for 30lb Holistic Select :wacko: and even that isn't considered high quality food.

Anyways I'm going to temporarily switch back to Holistic Select for now until his stool firms up again. Picked up a small bag of Merrick... I'll give that a try once everything stabilizes and I'll see how it goes.

I did a comparison at the store.. for an equivalent 30lb bag, Merrick is about $20 cheaper than HS.

I'm not trying to be cheap or anything... but I feel like I'm getting gouged. In the US, you guys get HS at a much more reasonable price.


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## PUNKem733 (Jun 12, 2009)

I feed my my 15 year old, 20 pound guy Origen, Horizon Legacy, formerly Evo, and Wellness Core, and he always had solid poops, and is doing wonderful. I do give him raw meats with his kibble sometimes, and raw Pork ribs, and a raw egg with shells once a week. You really have to feed less, as 4-5 cups is WAY too much. I also fast my dog once a week. 

Also I think a ban is in order for unpracticalfeeder. He is giving out near dangerous advice, with the garbage he spews out.


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## stajbs (Jun 5, 2010)

Dracore,

Holistic Select...Duck formula, or the Anchovy/Salmon/Sardine is $45.99 for 30 pounds where I used to get it here in PA. I slipped a bag of either of these formulas into our rotation up until recently when our senior boy began having digestive issues. Our guys liked both flavors but I was usually adding some meat to it as well. 

I would definitely be looking for something more reasonable and with luck even better quality.


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## GermanSheperdlover (Nov 15, 2009)

kevin bradley said:


> GSL,
> 
> I have to ask, whey the lower rating of EVO? Its loaded with meat and protein. I'm assuming its because you don't agree with the PG thing. I'll let you answer though.


I do quite a bit of research on dog food and I am starting to hear people having issues with Evo. I do not go by what people say on the internet because it could be the same person doing the bashing.
I used to feed California Natural, but the last bag I got him (my dog) gave him some nasty diarrhea. I actually argued with people awhile back thinking p & g would NOT change the formula's and I still believe that they have not. I am pretty certain that they are sourcing from low quality suppliers. p & g is in business to make a profit and that's it. They are not in it because they have a love for dogs!!! Actually I started hearing bad things about Innova almost right away and just blew them off, but not anymore. 
I have a small bag of the old Evo and it well be interesting to match up the 2 in another year or so. I am gonna try and find some one who can test the 2.
By the way here is my dogs website. And yes he really does only have three toes on his back right foot.

http://3toestony.shutterfly.com/


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## chowder (Sep 7, 2008)

Just as a reference point, I have two 80 pound dogs (Chow/Husky and Rottweiler/Boxer) and when they were eating pure Orijen, they EACH only got 2 cups of food per day. I would divide it into a breakfast and dinner meal and give one cup each meal. That way they felt a little fuller and I didn't have to worry about the one gobbling up too much at one time.

I'm not sure how much your dog weighs, but I never have gone by the amount they recommend on the package of food. My rottie mix swore he was starving on 2 cups per day but he would eat rocks with gravy on them so I don't go by his opinion!


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## Unosmom (May 3, 2009)

If Orijen is too rich, you may want to try Acana, its still good quality, but better choice for dogs that cant tolerate very high protein. 
Senior dogs most certainly benefit from higher protein, the problem with senior foods is that in order to cut out fat, they have to reduce protein content, which equates to very grain heavy foods. Grains raise insulin levels and can lead to canine diabetes and insulin resistance. The dog will also eat more food by volume in order to satisfy the hunger because grains are just fillers and pass right through, while protein helps to keep them sattisfied. 

I'm not really a huge fan of holistic select, they recently reformulated their foods by reducing meats and adding grains. 

Another brand to look into is horizon legacy which is a canadian brand made locally, similar to Orijen but lower protein and its potato free.


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## Jackielyn (May 27, 2009)

I just wanted to throw in that I fed my 140 lb Senior Great Dane 3 cups of TOTW a day...good luck finding something that works!


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## _Trish (Jan 31, 2011)

I strongly disagree that all of the "high quality" dog foods are just a gimmick. I started out feeding my dogs Bil-Jac, dry food and frozen. One of them broke out all over in a rash, and was itching his hair out, was constantly going to the vet for ear infections, skin infections, etc. and the other one was throwing up almost daily, and having very runny stools. Then we tried other foods, Purina One, Purina Pro Plan, Iams, Eukanuba, and Science Diet. I wasn't very well educated on dog food, but my dogs continued to be very poorly. They were skinny, and just looked poorly, and Louie's allergies were out of control. I decided to start doing my own research, joined a few breed specific forums (I have purebred dogs) and I started discovering the foods I had been feeding my dogs were garbage, and were chalk full of fillers and by-products. I started researching grain-free, and grain-inclusive diets (but ones with higher quality grains) and the first grain-free food I put them on was Natural Balance. They did really well on it, but it has a pretty low protein percentage, so then next I tried Wellness CORE, then Solid Gold, Fromm, Merrick B.G., Blue Buffalo, California Natural, Innova, EVO, and out of those the only one they could really tolerate was the California Natural and EVO. Then, I started reading about Orijen, so I bought a small bag and my dogs went NUTS for it, tried a cold turkey switch, but that didn't work, so then I tried a very gradual change, and they just really couldn't handle it, too high of protein in it for them, I'm assuming. Then I found Taste of the Wild, a food that they did GREAT on and was very affordable. So they ate that for awhile, and then I discovered Acana. My dogs by far do the BEST on Acana. I'm curious about why only certain formulas of Acana are on GSD lover's "A" list, as I feel all of their formulas are great. I've fed them the Prairie, Grasslands, Pacifica, and Ranchlands and they've done WONDERFUL on ALL of them! I do still buy Taste of the Wild, as it's one of the most affordable grain-free foods out there. Oh, and by the way, once I switched to a higher quality food, Louie quit having ear infections, and allergy outbreaks, and Ellie no longer had digestion problems, and hasn't regurgitated or vomited up her food in a very long time.. it's been a couple of years now. So I can speak from first hand experience that I saw a drastic improvement when my dogs ate what I would consider to be a higher quality food compared to when they were on a food full of corn, brewer's rice, and by-products. I do also feed raw, which my dogs love, but kibble is more convenient for my schedule, but I'm trying to feed raw more than I feed the kibble, because they love it and I know it's good for them, and so easy for them to digest. Oh, and also, Ellie ate poop when she was fed a low quality food, even her own, and once she was eating better food, that she was getting more nutrients out of, instead of pooping them back out, so quit eating poop all-together.


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