# Tapeworms



## Nana52 (Apr 28, 2012)

Kody and Kacy get garlic every day, diatomaceous earth most days except for 1 week per month I switch to ground pumpkin seeds daily, as well as ACV 2-3 times a week. Kacy is STILL "expelling" tapeworm segments after 2 months. Now Kody has just started having them again, and he actually a pill from the vet for tapeworms about 4-5 months ago. I'm doing all that I can to prevent fleas naturally, haven't seen a sign of one. I'm at a loss as to what more I can do to get rid of these buggers once and for all! Any suggestions anyone?


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

i'm sure liz will be along to help.


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## Nana52 (Apr 28, 2012)

magicre said:


> i'm sure liz will be along to help.


Do you think she'll come by and pick worm bits off butts? No, probably not.


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

Grapefruit Seed extract by Nutribiotics. It is stronger than the pumpkin seed and DE. You can find it online or at health food stores. It needs to be the liquid form. Just add 5 drops for every 10 pounds of dog to food or water daily for 10 days and keep giving the pumpkin seed. The Grapefruit Seed Extract will kill the worms and the pumpkin will flush it out of his body. Picking the segments off you areo n your own.


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## Nana52 (Apr 28, 2012)

Liz said:


> Grapefruit Seed extract by Nutribiotics. It is stronger than the pumpkin seed and DE. You can find it online or at health food stores. It needs to be the liquid form. Just add 5 drops for every 10 pounds of dog to food or water daily for 10 days and keep giving the pumpkin seed. The Grapefruit Seed Extract will kill the worms and the pumpkin will flush it out of his body. Picking the segments off you areo n your own.


Kool beans. I'll surely be getting that. You're the bom! I'll handle the segment picking if I must. Kacy does not dig it at all. He tries to eat my arm every time. But I shall persevere.

Is this it? http://www.amazon.com/NutriBiotic-Grapefruit-Extract-Liquid-Concentrate/dp/B000M7OOPS Gotta love Amazon.


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

Grapefruit Seed Extract is great and I have used it for worms, giardia and coccidia. Great stuff. !


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

Nana52 said:


> Do you think she'll come by and pick worm bits off butts? No, probably not.


her kids might.


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## Nana52 (Apr 28, 2012)

Liz said:


> Grapefruit Seed Extract is great and I have used it for worms, giardia and coccidia. Great stuff. !


Sorry for another question. You use the GSE/pumpkin seeds to treat when they have worms (I can't imagine your healthy dogs getting them) or do you use "constantly" as a preventative?

I always prefer to treat/prevent things naturally if possible, but with Kody on colostrum for immune support, milk thistle for liver, an herbal "blend" for seizures while lowering his phenobarb dose (supposedly individual herbs for seizure help but no idea which ONE might be best or how much to give, etc), plus garlic for fleas, and occasional ACV .... well, even with "natural" remedies, one can go overboard, right? Plus I'm reading some good stuff about kelp, so that would be yet another supplement. Sounds like kelp might be a "multipurpose" thing to give. But of course sometimes less is better, right? He's just got so much going one, I don't want to worsen one thing while trying to help something else.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

Nana52 said:


> Sorry for another question. You use the GSE/pumpkin seeds to treat when they have worms (I can't imagine your healthy dogs getting them) or do you use "constantly" as a preventative?
> 
> I always prefer to treat/prevent things naturally if possible, but with Kody on colostrum for immune support, milk thistle for liver, an herbal "blend" for seizures while lowering his phenobarb dose (supposedly individual herbs for seizure help but no idea which ONE might be best or how much to give, etc), plus garlic for fleas, and occasional ACV .... well, even with "natural" remedies, one can go overboard, right? Plus I'm reading some good stuff about kelp, so that would be yet another supplement. Sounds like kelp might be a "multipurpose" thing to give. But of course sometimes less is better, right? He's just got so much going one, I don't want to worsen one thing while trying to help something else.


i can see your concern.

in my opinion and i don't know if liz agrees....getting rid of a tapeworm, to me, would be pretty important on the list of things to take care of.

i'd hold off on kelp for a bit...and acv is an optional, although it wouldn't hurt.

what's the herbal blend you're using? you might be able to sub out that for a single herb, rather than a bunch of herbs....sometimes those extras are not needed when you only need one or two in the blend.


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## Nana52 (Apr 28, 2012)

magicre said:


> i can see your concern.
> 
> in my opinion and i don't know if liz agrees....getting rid of a tapeworm, to me, would be pretty important on the list of things to take care of.
> 
> ...


I do want to get rid of the TWs. I've read that they're not especially harmful, unless they're just infested (how could possibly know how may one has), but they're just supremely icky to me. Especially since Kacy likes to sleep with his butt in my face, and I keep imaginng the worm bits squiggling out ... well, you get the picture!

I've no problem with omitting the ACV. I've just been giving it sporadically, not for any specific reason but having read it's really good for them. 

This is the herbal blend I'm giving: Doc Ackerman's Epilepsy & Seizure Formula: Blue Vervain, Chamomile, Ginseng, Nutmeg, Passion Flower, St. John's Wort, Valerian Root, Soy Powder. I'd particularly like to ditch the "soy powder." 

I've been considering a liquid called Easesure: Passiflora incarnata, Scuttelaria laterifolia, Hyoscyamus (30C), Belladonna (30C), Cuprum mettalicum (30C), Deionized water, Vegetable glycerin. BUT even though it's not listed, it's based in 60% alcohol. I contacted the company, they said it wouldn't be a problem, but if I was bothered by it, I could dilute the drops in water. I don't think that's one I want to go with either.

I have a book: Herbs for Pets - The Natural Way to Enhance Your Pet's Life (that sucker is huge... I haven't even grazed the surface). It mentions Passion Flower, St. John's Wort, and Valerian Root. But it doesn't give dosages or anything. So I'm sure I could buy one or more but I don't know how to combine them or how much to give of each separately or in combination. Did that make sense? I think I'm past the point of making sense anymore.

I'll hold off on the kelp for now. Soon there's not going to be enough room in his bowl for his food.

Oh, hell, I've gone completely off track again, haven't I? I'm going away now.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

i thought tapeworms interfere with absorption of nutrients, as they take from the host for themselves......

i'm probably not the one to talk to about the herbal blend as i am so not a proponent of soy nor do i care for all in one products....with few exceptions....i think liz said it best when she said what if i need more of one and less of another ingredient.....i'm kind of stuck with all or nothing with a blend. but that's me.

as to a seizure aid for your pup.....this is what i would do, so take with grains of himalayan salt .....

i would do what i could to support the immune system so it can fight off whatever ails it or attacks it.

i do it with my own lack of health and i do it for my dogs....

i feed raw, as you already know....
i will be giving and taking bovine colostrum so my pug can maybe build his immune system enough to finally rid himself of these warts. and i've tried everything. so now i shall go support his immune system. 
i give them a probiotic to help the intestines keep the population of beneficial gut flora so the intestines can do its job to help the immune system to ITS job. 

when i take supplements, such as blue green algaes (spirulina) i take it as a separate entity and not part of a whole, even though vitamineral green looks very appealing as an all in one..and i may try it....

or green mush for the dogs as an all in one....just to see if it does something.

but normally, i'd be looking for that ingredient or supplement that supports immunity or rids the body of toxins so the gut flora works properly....

i like how you put that the bowl will soon be overflowing with supplements and no room for food LOL


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

Hi Nana,

You are giving quite a lot. I would get rid of the tapeworms as they do interfere with nutrition and you can't be sure if he has a few or a ton. This is just a ten to fourteen day protocol. 




Nana52 said:


> I do want to get rid of the TWs. I've read that they're not especially harmful, unless they're just infested (how could possibly know how may one has), but they're just supremely icky to me. Especially since Kacy likes to sleep with his butt in my face, and I keep imaginng the worm bits squiggling out ... well, you get the picture!
> 
> I've no problem with omitting the ACV. I've just been giving it sporadically, not for any specific reason but having read it's really good for them.
> 
> ...


*Hold off on kelp and these other supplements and i will do more research on seizures and see what is really working out there. Get rid of those tapes, keep him on raw. 
*
*Oh, I actually have not had worms here in almost nine years since we stopped vaccinating and the dogs immune systems built back up. I have friends who have had issues with worms and litters who needed worming or got coccidia and giardia. that is how i know the GrapeFruit Seed Extract really works. With the tapeworm puppies they have been on three rounds of traditonal wormers and still tested positive for worms, were losing weight to diarrhea and were fading. Ten days of Grapfruit Seed Extract and no more diarhhea after two days and after three weeks tested clear for worms. I use DE on mine sporadically throughout Spring/Summer and if I think they are getting worms use the ground pumpkin seed or ground raw carrot. It has been years since we have actually seen worms though. *


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## Nana52 (Apr 28, 2012)

Bovine C on its way, should be here tomorrow. GSE on its way, won't be here until Thursday due to Wednesday holiday. So first order of business, strengthen immune system, get rid of tapeworms.

I've done some more reading in the "Herbs for Dogs" book. It does in fact give dosages of individual herbs (I totally missed that the first go around), specifically mentions passion flower, skullcap, valerian and something else I forget at the moment. So I'll be searching a "quality" source for either one or both. The herb book does mention that alcohol is used as a preservative, can be diluted for administering the tincture, and that glycerine-based tinctures are less potent and not as effective. 

He/they are doing well on raw, albeit Kody's lightly seared. Eating mostly chicken, small amount of turkey, not needing much bone, and poops looking like .... well, poop. No vomiting, no diarrhea, occasionally a tiny bit of bone in poop. I'm anxious to start beef heart, as vet said that would be a really good source of lean protein, but realizing I must introduce slowly. In addition, I've seen mentioned a few places that taurine can be helpful in SOME dogs with seizures, and both chicken and beef heart (or maybe heart in general?) are good sources of that.

Read on other thread something about fish oil affecting liver, but my guy really needs something "oily" for Omega 3, as well as his somewhat dry skin (due to low fat I assume). Plus many articles I've read recommend EFA, in general, and for dogs with pancreatitis. So now what? 

I swear if I live through these last 2 dogs, I'm gonna take up raising cactus!

Thanks to all for cheering me on and taking the time to provide so much helpful information.


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

Nana
If you decide to mix your own tinctures you can make small amounts in distilled water and keep in the fridge. If you make large amounts it will go bad before you can use it. I make one ounce tinctures when needed and keep in the fridge. If I have to toss it is very little.


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## Nana52 (Apr 28, 2012)

I'm not even close to knowing how to make my own! This herb book I've got explains it, but it's like speaking a different language. I need to take a week off from work so I can read it.

I will continue trying to educate myself (or just have you educate me :wink and hopefully I'll soon be ready to start replacing the "combo" with a single herb or even 2, but not a whole freaking bus load! What, if anything, do you know about Flower Essences? Seems a little hokey to me, but some folks swear by them. Realizing, of course, that no one thing is going to work for every dog. All I know for sure is, this phenobarb crap has got to go! Slowly, painfully (taking him down 1/4 pill every 30 days .... that's how slow) but gotta go!


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

I am using flower essences right now with my eldest girl for hormonal issues and it is doing wonders. Her cycles are totally normal - i was a little worried because she was the one we got through pyo and few months ago and her temperament is much more even. They are not for everything but do well on many ailments. Taking the natural temperament of the dog is a big part of making flower essences work.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

nana, fish oil can affect the numbers, not the liver.



and beef heart. that's one the last things you'll intro.

are they getting fat from the chicken?


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## Nana52 (Apr 28, 2012)

Liz said:


> I am using flower essences right now with my eldest girl for hormonal issues and it is doing wonders. Her cycles are totally normal - i was a little worried because she was the one we got through pyo and few months ago and her temperament is much more even. They are not for everything but do well on many ailments. Taking the natural temperament of the dog is a big part of making flower essences work.


I've found this one seizures - Pet Essences Seizures Dog Cat Flower Essences It's based in 30% brandy (I may drink a few bottles myself), but it says it can be diluted in water, which will only dilute the alcohol, not the efficacy of the essence. That may be worth a shot.


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