# i am giving up



## bett (Mar 15, 2012)

background-65 lb female lab with continual high eosinophil count. reg vet and vet from guiding eyes want the prescription food. that's not happening.
she licks the ankle, behind the paws. she's scratching. ears fine. no yeast. i have her on claritin, rescue remedy. nothing makes a difference. she's been on gf kibble-fromm beef, wellness ocean core, i've home cooked (properly as i do for rex) . nothing matters. and sadly, both vets feel i may never know what she is "allergic " to. 

i believe she has an intolerance to chicken (kibble) tho not to raw chicken necks. oh, yeah, nick is a butcher but won't go for big bones. necks work but when i go near the conversation he shakes himself purple. and his shop doesn't have the grinder to make the bones into something small.

so, I've been looking at hare today. i get green lipped mussel for rex from them.i know frenchie owner who uses them.
she will need about 1.3 lbs , for the day, divided in half.

what is the most benign thing to try-rabbit, ground with bone and god knows all the other stuff in there. i could gag but i think head, thyroid, organs.
they have other exotic foods. what does everyone think?

what a pity, i know, that my husband is a butcher-unless you can come up with something (and it's a prime shop and has fish too) that i get from him but what do i do for bone?
i am just about ready to jump. he may be willing to do this, if i can get something for bone it will naturally, be less money and more convenient thru him.

i don't want to sound dramatic. but i am really losing whatever is left of my mind.

ideas please-let's start with what nick can bring home.


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## Rvent (Apr 15, 2012)

can you get chicken or duck feet, I use them a lot as bone. Blue ridge beef has ground quail with bone (reasonable) 
Macy has always had an allergy issues with yeast, been to allergy doctor the whole nine yards, meds ect. just no prescript food. I started making coconut milk kefir, I gave it to her for a few days in a row then I alternated between that and ACV.. cleared it all up, she still gets a little itchy when the leaves fall or when grass is cut but nothing like before.
I hope you find a solution, Macy's chewing use to drive me crazy, now if I can find a cure for the whining I would be all set.


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## bett (Mar 15, 2012)

Rvent said:


> can you get chicken or duck feet, I use them a lot as bone. Blue ridge beef has ground quail with bone (reasonable)
> Macy has always had an allergy issues with yeast, been to allergy doctor the whole nine yards, meds ect. just no prescript food. I started making coconut milk kefir, I gave it to her for a few days in a row then I alternated between that and ACV.. cleared it all up, she still gets a little itchy when the leaves fall or when grass is cut but nothing like before.
> I hope you find a solution, Macy's chewing use to drive me crazy, now if I can find a cure for the whining I would be all set.


i can probably get chicken feet from nick, but in 40lb boxes. or try the asian markets. 
do you feed anything other than quail? 

she chews, no yeast, and scratching at night can make me nuts.


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## Rvent (Apr 15, 2012)

Are you feeding a strictly raw diet?
Macy can eat almost anything, I think her allergy problem is environmental and so does the allergy specialist she went to, my regular vet tested her for fungus, yeast ect she came back neg. for all, the allergy doctor ran some test and found she had yeast, I don't know why she found it and not the reg. vet.

the quail has no organ, I feed a bunch of different things, example. this morning I gave them (all of mine) ground quail, a chicken foot, some beef & chicken heart.

before I started making the kefir, I gave her a 12 strain probiotic, digestive enzyme, once a day for 2 weeks, than every other day for a few weeks, I also rotated ACV and green algae. Now she only get the kefir ad ACV maybe once or twice a week if needed.
She rarely chews or scratches anymore, she started when the leaves where on the ground. she use to chew and scratch until she was raw and bleeding.


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## bett (Mar 15, 2012)

Rvent said:


> Are you feeding a strictly raw diet?
> Macy can eat almost anything, I think her allergy problem is environmental and so does the allergy specialist she went to, my regular vet tested her for fungus, yeast ect she came back neg. for all, the allergy doctor ran some test and found she had yeast, I don't know why she found it and not the reg. vet.
> 
> the quail has no organ, I feed a bunch of different things, example. this morning I gave them (all of mine) ground quail, a chicken foot, some beef & chicken heart.
> ...


Right now, kibble,gf.i've done home cooking, some chicken necks giblets.
Dont know what the allergy is but high eosinophil count equals allergy.

She scratches, licks ankles but not to blood.
And to boot, suffers from canine incontinence that ive been treating with chinese herbs.she gets acv,organic coconut oil, vitamins( cran caps, c, probiotics,slippery elm,fish oil......i cant even remember now but im trying everything.
Dr wanted to try xanex but not going there now.may have to give in to proin because i think the herbs are starting to be less effective.
This one is giving me a run for my money.


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## Rvent (Apr 15, 2012)

high eosinophil count can be caused by a few things, not just allergies. 

Reasons Your Pet’s Eosinophil Count Could Be High :

Allergic and hypersensitivity reactions, internal parasite infections, flea allergies, mast cell tumors and a few other types of tumors, hypereosinophilic syndromes (eg eosinophilic granuloma) in cats, Addison’s disease (along with increased number of lymphocytes), heartworm disease, allergic pneumonitis, inflammatory bowel disease (IBD)

Have you had some of these eliminated.

try the coconut kefir, coconut is so beneficial, it can't hurt. its simple to make and cheaper than a probiotic 
get a glass jar with lid that fits tight, some kefir grains (online) or starter (health food store) I use starter.... 2 cans coconut milk, packet starter mix in glass jar cover leave on counter for about 24 hours, it has the consistency of a smoothy store in fridge 

I went through hell and many diagnosis with Macy and all the meds some help a bit but only for a short time, I was never told she had a high Eosinophil Count, so I don't know if this will help but it really worked for her.


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## bett (Mar 15, 2012)

Rvent said:


> high eosinophil count can be caused by a few things, not just allergies.
> 
> Reasons Your Pet’s Eosinophil Count Could Be High :
> 
> ...


all the other lovely reasons, thank god, were eliminated.she's young . 5. this has been forever.i adopted her from guiding eyes (she was removed because the owner was a turd, and she was 25 lbs overweight, etc) when she was just a bit over 2. working for awhile and issues from the beginning. had to be brought back with recipient who was the one at fault. anyway, all that crap was eliminated and we are left with an allergy of sorts.

oh god, if i have to concoct one more thing i may jump.
i have rex , home cooked, he's the one that nearly died from liver disease in the diamond dog food mess 18 months ago. herbs, home cooking, supplements, anything short of voodoo, which i would do if need be and now, god damn it , he has fluid in the lung that isn't going away. and he's gonna be 12 so no surgery for lung cancer if a tumor is hiding behind the fluid. 
and vangie also has the incontinence thing going on that i've been treating with chinese herbs but i think that isn't working so well anymore. and jake, well jake, knock wood, just turned 11, and since his last stupidly gruesome surgery which turned out to be a lipoma, but stitches and staples don't hold on his skin so he had a gaping, and i mean gaping hole that took months to heal and now is beautiful hidden and done. …..whew, lots of stuff with lots of dogs.

is there a chance a health food store (a good one) would sell that coconut kefir?(please say yes)


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## Shamrockmommy (Sep 10, 2009)

From my days when I was into herbs, you are to give the dog the herb until they start to itch, then your course of treatment is over and you stop the herb. 

If it were me, I'd take her off EVERYTHING. Fast her for 24 hours. Water only. Then, I'd go for something like turkey and sweet potato cooked- and that's it. See if you can get things to calm down before you worry about balancing anything. THen, add ONE thing at a time. Cut out all treats and extra anythings during this time.

Are you absolutely sure she doesn't have fleas? Do you use carpet powder or what type of cleaning chemicals on your floors? What about shampoo?

I'm so sorry to hear about her/you going through this. It can be so frustrating! ALso vitamins, like vitamin C are corn-based and if she's allergic to that, well it will exacerbate the issue I'm afraid.
Don't know if this helps at all, just throwing this out there and hope she gets better.


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## Rvent (Apr 15, 2012)

unfortunately not that I am aware of, it is seriously just opening 2 cans, stir in starter pack let sit on counter 24 hours, refrigerate...done

I also like shamrockmommy's idea also.


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## bett (Mar 15, 2012)

positive re the fleas.no carpet powder, clean wood floors with vinegar, i am asthmatic so my house is really free from chemicals, odors, etc.the scratching and biting started a few months ago so …..

spoke to the chinese herb guy and he sees a correlation between the recent leaking and scratching (tcm) so they are tweaking, the herbs for the leaking, adding another pill, and suggested i (gag) get kidneys and boil them for her, tiny bits of course.

i also located a vet local to me, who believes in raw, and i hope to bring nick along so he can listen re the bones, since they freak him out if it's anything more than a chicken or turkey neck.

not one vet i have spoken with, about a dog with a high eosinophil count, has any hope that i can narrow down what it is. doesn't have to be a protein , but i think kibble has so much crap added into it, that either home cooking, (which i do for rex and she was no different on it) is the way to go for her, or raw. i really believe raw would be better and while i suspect an intolerance of chicken in kibble, not raw necks.

this will be a slow process but i will try my best.

spoke with others who go by tcm, and they too believe herbs need to be changed after a while because they lose their effectiveness. so i am eagerly awaiting her package of new stuff. she's been on them 13-14 months with great success.


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## Rvent (Apr 15, 2012)

I thing in TCM and homeopathic meds the theory is... kidney problem feed kidney, liver issues feed liver. the holistic vet recommended Babs eat kidney for here kidney's and take rehmannia eight combination.
the raw did not totally help Macy with her allergies, diet does not get rid of environmental allergies, this time of year and the beginning of spring are tuff for her, but most of the time she is comfortable, so even if you never totally figure it out and stop it, at least make her comfortable most of the time.

Have you tried raw local honey, or wild blueberries? 

I also noticed allergy medicine is the same, needs to be changed after a while, and the dose also


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## bett (Mar 15, 2012)

haven't tried honey and did try blueberries. 
very hard stain to get out of the area rug, that i can tell you, so no more blueberries. she's on claritin,24 hr but i can change that no problem, cause i don't see it doing a thing.

i wish i would have realized that the herbs eventually need to be tweaked and not waited this long to realize it. 
ok, live and learn. 

still on the fence with raw, but thinking of it.


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## Celt (Dec 27, 2010)

I know it's no where as near as problematic as what you are dealing with but with my boy, Blaise, I know that raw (even premade) helps with his allergies. His are very mild though so my experience may be of no use.


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## Kassandra (Jun 6, 2012)

At the rescues I volunteer with we give the dogs reactine, and when we switch every few weeks, we give them generic benadryl. You really want to switch between a few different brands (ones with different ingredients) every few weeks because after a while their body develops an intolerance to the active ingredient. It happens with any medication given for too long, I assume this is the case with the herbs as well. Such a pain in the butt.

As mentioned before (I think by Shamrockmommy), get her allergies under control and get her comfortable, then worry about balancing everything out. Try something that isn't a common allergen at all and feed that for a little while with some sweet potato or something similar. When I was doing this to get Charlie's allergies under control I fed her strictly ptarmigan for a while. Options that are easier to find would be deer, duck, rabbit. I do also like the sound of the coconut kefir (though moreso as a supplement for once it is under control).

It is very well possible to be allergic to cooked chicken (aka kibble chicken) and not allergic to the raw form. If you do end up trying this route, which I don't think would be too hard because you are already doing homecooking for Rex, it's basically the same thing but you don't cook it, I personally think you may see a difference. There are so many ingredients in kibble that it is almost impossible to determine the intolerance/allergy while feeding it unless it is to the first 10ish ingredients that vary from kibble to kibble. It could be something way down the list that is causing it that hasn't stood out to you as a possible allergen.

Really hope you get this under control, I think a lot of us here know how difficult dealing with allergies can be.


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## bett (Mar 15, 2012)

the allergies, according to traditional chinese medicine are because she is "damp" (like my rugs, the crate and anywhere else she manages to leak). they came about the same time, i mean the itching and scratching, as the leaking started up again. so i am hoping, that is that. the high eosinophil count, which is interpreted as an allergy to god knows what and we may never know, never exhibited itself, that we knew of.
i can't wait to start the new herbs and instead of claritin i will give her benedryl. 
and i will have a double gimlet, along with the solution for the carpet cleaner.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

i would try zyrtec over benadryl. my vet said that zyrtec and claritin are preferable to benadryl.


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## Rvent (Apr 15, 2012)

Macy was given Clemastine


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## bett (Mar 15, 2012)

i gave her benedryl last night and no scratching. i only gave one pill , to test. we will see. 
zyrtec puts me out when i take mine, i take it at night.


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## bett (Mar 15, 2012)

actually, the high eosinophil count is the cause of her barfing every few days, when not on pred (which we now have down to 5mg every 5 days)
both vets said the barfing was the result of the high count. not itching or scratching which she never had.


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## Herzo (Feb 5, 2011)

How about egg shell powder and or bone meal powder human grad of course. I sometimes use these and I always have them around. I too am about to go over the edge with Turtles ears, just can't seem to get them cleared up again. I was also thinking and this is with me as well as you because we are both feeding fish oil there is soy in most of it.

I know Re had put one on here several months ago and I am going to see if I can find it and get it and stop feeding Turtle the one I know has soy in it. I have been trying Chinese herbs for both Turtle and Maddie and am seeing no difference in either of them so I am done with them when they are gone.


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## bett (Mar 15, 2012)

ok, finally new herbs have come. 2 bottles of some kidney support to use up first, then another 3 bottles of a slightly different formula. along with 6 pills.

he also told me to boil kidneys, give small bits. nick brought them home, told me he would boil it on the grill so we don't have to sell the house. gave him a 40 yr old blue copco (anyone remember those) cast iron dutch oven. he cremated them and almost ruined the pot, that i allowed him to soak for two days and then clean.

don't know if i will try that again but meanwhile, gave her chicken backs (not on raw yet) and she did fine with them, even stole jake's and he let her. dopey gentleman. rex did fine too, he was my worry because i feared he would swallow whole. nope, chewed properly.

meanwhile ms vangie had her check up, or part of a check up as she didnt need bloods, and that porker, without vomiting and on the pred every 5 days, 4mg, looked heavier to me so before she got on the scale i asked if anyone wanted to bet me. nah, no takers. i said "67 lbs"(she was a skinn5y 57 months ago) . she should be between 62-64. 
67.5

ms vangelina is on a diet. 
so far, no leaking today, but she hasnt had the pred since thurs.
time will tell.


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