# Shelby's Kidney Levels!!! Freakin' Out



## Khan (Jan 17, 2010)

I noticed Shelby was drinking a little more than usual this weekend, and today she just seemed "Off" Dr. took her temp and gave her a once over and all looked/seemed normal. We took some blood to have some blood work done. Dr. just called, yes at 8pm! I love our vet! Anyway, he said that her Kidney levels are extremely high, as were a couple others, phosphorus, I think, but he said her creatine was barely elevated, which apparently is a good thing. He wants me to bring her in for the next 3 days so they can flush her with fluids and retest on Thursday. He said although the raw diet in no way caused this, he says the high protein is giving her problems. He wants me to switch her to a low protein "Kidney Friendly" diet. Not exactly sure what that is; but I did a quick read in the Merck Manual, and it says that if the protein and phosphorus levels are kept in check, all should be well.
As he hung up, he said, you knew more than I did this afternoon. You really do know your animals!
I'm not looking forward to the diet change, especially since she loves her food. I was actually surprised when I got done telling Ron what was going on, he said, well maybe we can just add some rice or something so it's not all protein. Since switching from kibble a year ago, she actually eats all her food. I know he doesn't want to go back to that either. I just want to get through the next 3 days then we can figure out where to go from here. 
Please send good Mojo for her.

Thanks
G


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## malluver1005 (Nov 15, 2009)

Khan said:


> I noticed Shelby was drinking a little more than usual this weekend, and today she just seemed "Off" Dr. took her temp and gave her a once over and all looked/seemed normal. We took some blood to have some blood work done. Dr. just called, yes at 8pm! I love our vet! Anyway, he said that her Kidney levels are extremely high, as were a couple others, phosphorus, I think, but he said her creatine was barely elevated, which apparently is a good thing. He wants me to bring her in for the next 3 days so they can flush her with fluids and retest on Thursday. He said although the raw diet in no way caused this, he says the high protein is giving her problems. He wants me to switch her to a low protein "Kidney Friendly" diet. Not exactly sure what that is; but I did a quick read in the Merck Manual, and it says that if the protein and phosphorus levels are kept in check, all should be well.
> As he hung up, he said, you knew more than I did this afternoon. You really do know your animals!
> I'm not looking forward to the diet change, especially since she loves her food. I was actually surprised when I got done telling Ron what was going on, he said, well maybe we can just add some rice or something so it's not all protein. Since switching from kibble a year ago, she actually eats all her food. I know he doesn't want to go back to that either. I just want to get through the next 3 days then we can figure out where to go from here.
> Please send good Mojo for her.
> ...


Poor Shelby! I thought a raw diet wasn't high protein...about 26-27% right? Hope she feels better soon!


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## angelbears (Jun 9, 2011)

I think you will be able to stick with a raw diet. There may even a yahoo group dedicated to this. I will check my raw feeding books and get back with you. I'm pretty sure I read were it is not that hard to keep them on raw.


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

I'm very sorry to hear about Shelby. My Abby was diagnosed with liver cancer last November. The vet also wanted her on a low protein diet. I pointed out that low protein automatically meant high carb diet. He agreed. I pointed out that cancer feeds on carbs. Feeding carbs would cause the cancer to grow faster. He agreed and said, "You're in a catch 22 position". I chose not to feed carbs. Vet gave Abby 6 months to live. That was up around the first of May. She is still here and as active as ever. We have had cool weather the last week or so and each morning when I say, "Ready to go walk?", she runs all over the house with excitement. She is 11 years old which is very old for a Dane but doesn't seem sick at all. She does drink a lot of water and has for over a year now. Thats what caused me to take her to the vet. He gave me some meds that is supposed to make her not drink so much and maybe she has slowed down some but still drinks a LOT of water. I don't know how much longer I will have her but the last few weeks she doesn't show any signs of going anytime soon. 

And another thing ... a PMR diet is not a high protein diet. Regardless of what people seem to think, it's only around 20% or so. You can't find many kibble that low in protein. I am not sorry that I didn't switch Abby to a low protein commercial diet. I am glad I stuck with PMR. I credit her living as long as she has to the diet she eats. I can't imagine any sick dog actually being healthier because they eat any commercial diet. Whole raw foods are best for any animal.

Hopefully, Shelby will be well soon. I would really give it strong consideration before I left the PMR diet. As you can tell, I really believe in it.


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## stajbs (Jun 5, 2010)

Khan I am not a raw feeder, preferring cooking and 95% canned meats. However, if you go to dogaware.com I believe you will find a list of meats that are higher in phosphorous than others. If nothing else you may be able to still feed raw but cut back on the meats that are higher in phosphorous. Hopefully that will stabilize her numbers somewhat, just a suggestion but might be worth looking into. If I were feeding raw I doubt I would change much in my dogs diet. However last year when Blaze had some slightly elevated kidney numbers I had scoped out the "kidney diet" on dog aware and found it helpful. Off hand I do not remember which meats it would be best to avoid or eliminate.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

I'm so sorry to hear this!!!

How old is Shelby? 

I too would keep her on raw. If her kidneys aren't functioning properly there's no doubt that some values would be elevated. Changing her diet to one that is low protein, and high carbohydrate isn't going to do her any justice. You can adjust a raw diet to be more "kidney friendly" but I wouldn't add in a bunch of inappropriate ingredients that will only cause more stress on the kidneys because they will in turn have to work harder at processing those things. Like stajbs said, find the lower phosphorus meats and feed those over ones that are higher more often. 

Please keep us posted on her progress....I'm sending her my positive, healing thoughts!


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## Khan (Jan 17, 2010)

Thanks guys. I figure once I get through the next 3 days I will be able to think and evaluate much clearer. I had thought about checking into what meats would be better than others so I will definitely be doing that before we just up and switch.

Oh and Nat, Shelby is 5.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Oh no...I'm sorry this is hitting at such a young age. There is a chance that it could be genetic OR she got into something in the environment, etc.

Either her case is acute or chronic, meaning its caused by a single event OR its something she will continue to have for the rest of her life. 

I really, really hope its just something acute that has caused this. Keep me posted and my healing thoughts are headed in her direction!


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

i hope, when they flush out her system, they will find a benign reason for why her kidney levels are so high....

raw is not a high protein, contrary to popular belief because of the water content....just like in humans, animals are made up of mostly fluids....

that's why most dogs don't drink as much when they are on raw.....that and the decreased salt.

which is something to consider if you put shelby on a commercial food...carbs and salt. hard on kidneys....very hard...

wait until you get shelby flushed out and redo the test.....we'll be waiting with you.


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## cprcheetah (Jul 14, 2010)

Don't panic as of yet, I would do the flush out then retest and see where they are at. Where the CREA is barely elevated that is a REALLY good sign, as if in kidney failure it is elevated. It could just be an infection. We just did an ultrasound on a dog who had really high levels of both (only 18 months old) and the Dr who did the ultrasound said it was a chronic congenital issue. I have seen really high kidney levels go back to normal after IV flushing. I would avoid the vet diet as much as possible, the PMR is MUCH healthier.


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## stajbs (Jun 5, 2010)

Khan, I went searching, hopefully this will be one of the links I used on dog aware to decide on meats to avoid or reduce in Blaze's diet......DogAware.com Health: Nutritional Information on Selected Foods If that didn't work, I apologize, I am computer challenged. But I remember now why Blaze no longer gets salmon, sardines, mackeral...etc. Keeping fingers and paws crossed for you and Shelby. Truly though it looks as if staying with raw, but watching your meats carefully may help. Plus there are values/ranges given for bone in.....chicken necks etc. etc.


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## Khan (Jan 17, 2010)

Stajbs, thanks for the info. I went on there yesterday morning when I could think a little clearer, gave me tons of info so when I spoke to our vet at least I could have a little knowledge of things.
As for Chronic vs. Acute...not really sure, for a week she has been on Metacam due to the incident with her foot/leg when Khan stepped on it. I know other drugs like Rimadyl can affect the liver, so could this have affected her kidneys?? Not sure, Could it have been the combination of of the meds and her being kept completely quiet? Again, not sure. She is use to playing ball for a couple hours every night and for a week we have had her on injured reserve! The doctor is going to take a couple pics of the kidneys to rule anything out. 
Our vet understands that what we are feeding is better than anything you can get in a can or bag, so once we get through the next few weeks, he said we would go over the diets out there and that we probably just need to adjust her diet. Like that website described, we just need to use certain types of proteins over others.
Thanks again for all your good thoughts. By Thursday we will know more, and that's when I will actually be able to sleep!!


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## cprcheetah (Jul 14, 2010)

Khan said:


> Stajbs, thanks for the info. I went on there yesterday morning when I could think a little clearer, gave me tons of info so when I spoke to our vet at least I could have a little knowledge of things.
> As for Chronic vs. Acute...not really sure, for a week she has been on Metacam due to the incident with her foot/leg when Khan stepped on it. I know other drugs like Rimadyl can affect the liver, so could this have affected her kidneys?? Not sure, Could it have been the combination of of the meds and her being kept completely quiet? Again, not sure. She is use to playing ball for a couple hours every night and for a week we have had her on injured reserve! The doctor is going to take a couple pics of the kidneys to rule anything out.
> Our vet understands that what we are feeding is better than anything you can get in a can or bag, so once we get through the next few weeks, he said we would go over the diets out there and that we probably just need to adjust her diet. Like that website described, we just need to use certain types of proteins over others.
> Thanks again for all your good thoughts. By Thursday we will know more, and that's when I will actually be able to sleep!!


 ABSOLUTELY It could definitely be the metacam....did the Dr take him off of it? They actually removed the approval for cats because of it causing Kidney Failure in them when given repeated doses. If the Vet didn't take him off of the metacam, please please please tell them to do so immediately. NO NSAIDS (Rimadyl, Previcoxx, Metacam) PERIOD. I hope that he gets bettter.

Here are some of the side effects of Meloxicam/Metacam:
Meloxicam may interact with other medications. Consult with your veterinarian to determine if other drugs your pet is receiving might interact with meloxicam. Such drugs include aspirin, corticosteroids, and ACE-inhibitors (enalapril, benazepril, quinapril). 
Side effects of meloxicam include stomach and intestinal ulcers, intestinal bleeding, dark or tarry stools (from bleeding into the intestines), vomiting, loss of appetite, and peritonitis (from intestinal perforation). Some of these side effects can assume life-threatening proportions and they can occur relatively suddenly.
The potential for ulcers increases when meloxicam is used in combination with corticosteroids (such as cortisone or prednisone), aspirin, or phenylbutazone.
Meloxicam can adversely affect kidney function by causing sudden severe injury to the kidneys (papillary necrosis). 
Blood clotting may be impaired due to the effects of meloxicam on the blood platelets. 
As with other NSAIDs, meloxicam may cause liver injury, with concomitant elevation of liver enzymes in blood tests.


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## Khan (Jan 17, 2010)

Thanks for all the info. So between yesterday and today I have had pretty much zero sleep. 
But before I go any further, let me just say, ALL her levels are completely normal!! Yeah!!
Yesterday after her treatment the doctor told be her BUN was normal, and that he was absolutely ecstatic. Last night however at about 2:30, She gave me quite a scare. First of all, I kinda laid against her sore leg, so that made her yelp, then when I went to console her for that, her entire underside was sooo sensitive every time I touched it she yelped. So from about 3 until 5 she was shaking and not able to get comfortable since her leg and underside were so sore, finally at 5 I called the vet luckily I didn't wake him up! He told me it was due to all the fluids and her skin being stretched! It was after this that I was able to hold her like a baby so she was on her side, and she finally was able to get a little rest. We were at the vet right at 7!
Anyway, tonight when we picked her up, the doctor is just amazed. Her BUN levels went from 119 on Monday to .9 today. Her Creatine was 2.4 on Monday and now it's almost nothing!!
He has obviously made notations to NEVER use Metacam, and in fact today, he was not even going to chance using any NSAID, for her leg! so instead he gave her a steroid!
He is not entirely convinced that it was the Metacam; but because she responded in this way, he is not convinced she has anything wrong with her kidneys. So for the next 2 weeks we are going to split her diet between RAW and the Canned. We will retest and if her levels are still within the normal range, chances are she does not have any permanent kidney damage. He has also said that the x-rays showed everything as normal. He had thought maybe we might need an ultrasound; but again with her levels going from super high to super normal, he does not think it's necessary.

So in a nutshell, she is GREAT!! I know that for the next couple weeks I will be watching her like a hawk!! When I get over that hurdle I will be much more at ease!

Thanks again for all your support and keeping us in your thoughts and prayers

Shelby & Gina


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## schtuffy (May 17, 2010)

I'm so glad to hear that Shelby is doing better! Thank goodness it seems to be acute, and hopefully it's gone for good!



cprcheetah said:


> ABSOLUTELY It could definitely be the metacam....did the Dr take him off of it? They actually removed the approval for cats because of it causing Kidney Failure in them when given repeated doses. If the Vet didn't take him off of the metacam, please please please tell them to do so immediately. NO NSAIDS (Rimadyl, Previcoxx, Metacam) PERIOD. I hope that he gets bettter.
> 
> Here are some of the side effects of Meloxicam/Metacam:
> Meloxicam may interact with other medications. Consult with your veterinarian to determine if other drugs your pet is receiving might interact with meloxicam. Such drugs include aspirin, corticosteroids, and ACE-inhibitors (enalapril, benazepril, quinapril).
> ...


So unless your dog reacts badly, is it okay to use Metacam? I know next to zero about dog medications...just know Louis took it when he was neutered.


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## cprcheetah (Jul 14, 2010)

YAY! I am so happy her levels are back to normal! YAY! 

Sophie; IMO Nsaids have a time and a place but there are risks just as there are risks to people taking aspirin, ibuprofen etc. Whenever I can I use natural methods to keep my pets pain free. Ziva has a stifle/knee sprain and most vets would prescribe Rimadyl/Metacam/Previcoxx etc, I am using homeopathic Rhuta Grav, & Traumeel and doubling up on her glucosamine for the next few weeks. It's only been 24 hours and I'm already seeing an improvement. I just really am leary of NSAIDS but I have seen them perform miracles....even in some of my 'bridge' babies. My dane couldn't even hardly walk without Rimadyl (he had severe hip dysplasia)....so for me if it's gonna be a 'longterm' thing I make sure they have regular bloodwork, as for a 'short' dose....that too can have risks...


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## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

Just wanted to say that I'm very relieved at well. Thank goodness everything is back to normal - I totally understand how scared you were.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

I'm also so glad to hear that she is back to normal! That is so scary! This is definitely an ACUTE case of kidney disease, which was obviously caused by the metacam. Thank DOG its not a chronic problem! Although I highly recommend doing biannual blood work on her now that her kidneys have been damaged. Once damage is done to kidney tissue, there is no healing it. Dogs and cats can both survive with only 25% kidney function, which tells you how much damage can be done before its a fatal disease. By routinely checking her kidney values, you can know exactly how she's doing on a regular basis. 

The only "safe" pain reliever for dogs IMO is Tramadol. All the other NSAIDS have their time and place, unfortunately they are overused in the vet world. They give them out like candy....

Keep us posted on Shelby!!!


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## luvMyBRT (Mar 8, 2010)

Wonderful news!!! I am so happy. Glad to know that she can stay on PMR and I don't need to look in my book for kidney diets. Woot! eace:


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## stajbs (Jun 5, 2010)

Great to hear this good news!!!


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## Khan (Jan 17, 2010)

Thanks everyone!
Sophie, No Metacam in Shelby's future!! Out of all the "like" drugs Metacam is touted as one of the "safest" with the least amount of side affects; but as far as she is concerned it is toxic to her! which is why he didn't want to tempt fate with ANY kind of NSAID for her yesterday!

Sara, you would have been off the hook. They actually gave me a recipe before I left for a home made kidney diet!

For now we are going to spend 2 weeks doing half raw and half canned, as well as a natural kidney support supplement just for precaution and good measure. 
Once we get the blood work back, which I'm very confident will show she is completely normal, we can go back to life as we know it!!


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