# A few questions about high protein dog foods and canidae?



## RCTRIPLEFRESH5

1-i have been feeding my dog Canidae for a few years but i have read online its no longer a premium food due to a formula change. i want my dog to eat the BEST so im thinking of changing. is it true canidae is no longer the best. his tummy also rumbles a lot and he farts so i guess the grains are bad? i feed him ALS. with grains.

2- i know that innova was part of the recall, and canidae was never recalled. was wellness ever recalled? im considering switching to wellness core(not regular wellness since that's only 22 percent protein and has less meat than canidae and has grains too) i will not pay top dollar for a food that has ever been recalled and that is one of the reasons i chose canidae.(and i know for a fact innova has been recalled so don't say it hasn't been)

3-i was under the impression that dogs should be fed a ''wolf'' like diet. this means mostly meat,no grains,and high protein. yet i see a lot of people saying high protein is bad for dogs? i have a 6 year old turning 7 golden retriever. he is 75 pounds and is in great health. i was thinking of starting him on wellness core in the summer when hes more active. hes obviously a large breed dog annd ive heard that proteins bad for them.

4-i was thinking of switching him to wellness core. is this a better food than canidae?
I noticed the first two ingredients in wellness core are pure meats, where as canidae only uises meat meals as their meats and has 5 different meat meals. meat meals are all meat where as pure meats are only 20 percent meat after the water is taken out to make it kibble. however wellness core has more protein which im assuming means there is still more meat weight since there is less grains?
i dont think id like to switch to regular wellness since it looks inferior to canidae. wellness core looks like the best.(next to orijon red which is not worth the drive for a limited quantity food )
is canidae still the premium food that is once was or should i fork over the extra money for wellness core? i want my dog to be 40 before he dies =p. i cant imagine him living less than 15 years lol.
i believe in feeding the dogs the wolf diet so i think wellness core would be good for him.
oh and also my dogs arms shake a lot when hes sitting down. the vet didnt know why this was and im not sure.


heres a video of my dog if anyone would liek to see him to give better adivce.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vpv_9vD8DjQ


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## wags

Do NOT be afraid of high protein for dogs! People are taught to believe if they give the dogs high protein their will be kidney damage. NOT TRUE! Dogs do extremely well on a high protein diet. Dogs are meat eaters so high protein is not problem. 
If you feed your dog a high quality, meat-based diet, just as nature intended, your dog will thrive. Do not fear feeding a High Protein Food!

I particularly do not feed Canidae since their recalls in 2007 and whenever they were! I do though like Orijen and Wellness core is great! My dogs right now are doing very well on the Ocean and the weight management!

Hmmm I didnt know Innova had recalls I have to look this up!

also I loved the video of you with you dog! He's your best friend and it shows! How cute loved it!:biggrin:



Go to Dog Food Analysis - Reviews of kibble Great food choices here!


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5

wags said:


> Do NOT be afraid of high protein for dogs! People are taught to believe if they give the dogs high protein their will be kidney damage. NOT TRUE! Dogs do extremely well on a high protein diet. Dogs are meat eaters so high protein is not problem.
> If you feed your dog a high quality, meat-based diet, just as nature intended, your dog will thrive. Do not fear feeding a High Protein Food!
> 
> I particularly do not feed Canidae since their recalls in 2007 and whenever they were! I do though like Orijen and Wellness core is great! My dogs right now are doing very well on the Ocean and the weight management!
> 
> Hmmm I didnt know Innova had recalls I have to look this up!
> 
> also I loved the video of you with you dog! He's your best friend and it shows! How cute loved it!:biggrin:
> 
> 
> 
> Go to Dog Food Analysis - Reviews of kibble Great food choices here!


the only thing that concerns me with wellness core is iy has fillers liike tomato pomace!
thanks i had fun making that video!!
orijon regional red looks very impressive, but ive heard that its usually delivered once a month a and snatched off of the shelves in minutes. the only place that sells it is atleast an hour away. so if it were gone that would suck!! although their regular formulas(adult and 6 fish look great too)
still idk if its worth the cost and drive when im sure wellness core is sold at the place ibuy canidae.
also i dont know why people would choose fish over meats like chicken and lamb? in fact ive always been confused on why to choose one meat over another. i see canidae with just chicken and lamb,yet the formula i buy has 5 meats. i would think that would be great.


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## rannmiller

I sent you a PM with my suggestion as to what it sounds like you're really looking for when you keep mentioning the "wolf" diet :smile:


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## Jordan S.

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> 1-i have been feeding my dog Canidae for a few years but i have read online its no longer a premium food due to a formula change. i want my dog to eat the BEST so im thinking of changing. is it true canidae is no longer the best. his tummy also rumbles a lot and he farts so i guess the grains are bad? i feed him ALS. with grains.
> 
> 2- i know that innova was part of the recall, and canidae was never recalled. was wellness ever recalled? im considering switching to wellness core(not regular wellness since that's only 22 percent protein and has less meat than canidae and has grains too) i will not pay top dollar for a food that has ever been recalled and that is one of the reasons i chose canidae.(and i know for a fact innova has been recalled so don't say it hasn't been)
> 
> 3-i was under the impression that dogs should be fed a ''wolf'' like diet. this means mostly meat,no grains,and high protein. yet i see a lot of people saying high protein is bad for dogs? i have a 6 year old turning 7 golden retriever. he is 75 pounds and is in great health. i was thinking of starting him on wellness core in the summer when hes more active. hes obviously a large breed dog annd ive heard that proteins bad for them.
> 
> 4-i was thinking of switching him to wellness core. is this a better food than canidae?
> I noticed the first two ingredients in wellness core are pure meats, where as canidae only uises meat meals as their meats and has 5 different meat meals. meat meals are all meat where as pure meats are only 20 percent meat after the water is taken out to make it kibble. however wellness core has more protein which im assuming means there is still more meat weight since there is less grains?
> i dont think id like to switch to regular wellness since it looks inferior to canidae. wellness core looks like the best.(next to orijon red which is not worth the drive for a limited quantity food )
> is canidae still the premium food that is once was or should i fork over the extra money for wellness core? i want my dog to be 40 before he dies =p. i cant imagine him living less than 15 years lol.
> i believe in feeding the dogs the wolf diet so i think wellness core would be good for him.
> oh and also my dogs arms shake a lot when hes sitting down. the vet didnt know why this was and im not sure.
> 
> 
> heres a video of my dog if anyone would liek to see him to give better adivce.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vpv_9vD8DjQ



Anyone who thinks high protein is harmful needs to read up on the updated science. Protein does nothing bad for a dog, it decreases the chance of muscle injury and helps them retain muscle mass especially in their senior years. it's the most important nutrient in dog food. We LOVE Wellness CORE.


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## Unosmom

Innova has never been recalled. 

I know that Canidae recently changed their formula and a lot of dogs got sick and a lawsuit has been filed against them, I dont see that much of a difference in ingridients so I'm suprised how many dogs got violently sick and even died from it. I wonder if some of those complaints are false in order to scare people away from buying better quality foods. But its enough to make me steer clear of it. 

High protein is fine as long as your dog can handle it, some dogs have sensitive stomachs and even with transition period they keep having bad gas, diarhhea and other digestive issues, it usually goes away with something a bit lower in protein. 
I do not think that an average household pet should be on something as high as 40-42% protein, unless they have a hard time keeping weight on or are extremely active, otherwise they tend to put on weight. 
I have a pretty active dog, but he still put on weight with Orijen, so I went with acana provincial which is 33-34% protein. 

Wellness core is a good choice though, make sure to switch over slowly.


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## rannmiller

Canidae really isn't a bad food, it just had a bunch of dogs get sick off of it when they changed their formula and didn't tell anyone about it, so that's probably why you're hearing it isn't so great anymore. Truth be told it was never "the best food on the market" but it is pretty decent. You could also look into their grain-free formulas. 

Orijen is one of my favorite brands of foods but probably not worth the 1 hour trip to get to it. Wellness Core was ok for my dog and there's no reason not to get the petco pals card so you can buy 10 bags and get the 11th free too. If you go to the Wellness website and sign up for their emails, they'll send you a coupon every month or so but it isn't always for the food. 

You could also try TOTW, Horizon Legacy, and Nature's Variety Instinct.


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## harrkim120

Unosmom said:


> I know that Canidae recently changed their formula and a lot of dogs got sick and a lawsuit has been filed against them, I dont see that much of a difference in ingridients so I'm suprised how many dogs got violently sick and even died from it. I wonder if some of those complaints are false in order to scare people away from buying better quality foods. But its enough to make me steer clear of it.


Where is all this info? I wanna read!!! :biggrin:


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## harrkim120

To repeat what everyone else has been saying...don't worry about the high protein foods. My dog ONLY did well on a high protein kibble. Up until the last couple of weeks he was on Wellness for the majority of his life. Wellness puppy until about 10 months old then straight to Wellness Core. I did try some other foods randomly just to see how he would do, but I always found myself going back to the Core. Never tried Orijen though....wanted to, just never got to it. That Regional Red sounds awesome though. :biggrin:


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5

rannmiller said:


> Canidae really isn't a bad food, it just had a bunch of dogs get sick off of it when they changed their formula and didn't tell anyone about it, so that's probably why you're hearing it isn't so great anymore. Truth be told it was never "the best food on the market" but it is pretty decent. You could also look into their grain-free formulas.
> 
> Orijen is one of my favorite brands of foods but probably not worth the 1 hour trip to get to it. Wellness Core was ok for my dog and there's no reason not to get the petco pals card so you can buy 10 bags and get the 11th free too. If you go to the Wellness website and sign up for their emails, they'll send you a coupon every month or so but it isn't always for the food.
> 
> You could also try TOTW, Horizon Legacy, and Nature's Variety Instinct.


well i dont appreciate a company switching formulas without letting their loyal customers know. they dont even change the bags. this is unethical for a variety of reasons
1-we all know you cant just go from one food formulation to another without a weeks worth of transitioning. maybe 4 days of transitioning but some transition must occur!!! canidae didnt care!!
2-we pay around 1.50 per pound for canidae so we would like to know when the quality of our food goes down!!!
3-its just trashy of the company not to inform us, especially when it impacts our dogs. i guess my dog is a genetic prodigee or i started him out on canidae after the formula change(dont think i did?) but he didnt seem effected unless i am not remembering so well..sune 2008 is a long time ago. i can barely remember what i ate for breakfast these days.

another reason i want to switch off of canidae is because i dont like diamond foods. i am not a fan of taste of the wild .

right now i am SET IN MY MIND that i am switching. i have a promotion with my supplier if i buy 12 bags of canidae i get a 13th free. i have bought 11(have bag 11 unopened just bought it yesterday) so i will buy bag 12 and get 13 for free. then i will switch to wellness core!!! should i bother using canidae grain free for bags 12 and 13? or should i just buy two more regular canidae bags rather than switching from regular canidae to grain free,and then to wellness core?

i see this two ways. i can either just go from canidae grain to wellness core and not transition more than i need to.
or i can make one more transitions and go from reg canidae to canidae grain free to wellness core..and although ill be doing one extra transition stage, i will give my dog a ''trial'' on grain free before shoving out the huge bucks on core.

what do you guys think? im definitely gonna wait to switch to the wellness though, especially because i want to wait until my dog is more active in the summer as opposed to now that he is sedentary.

the reason i consider canidae my personal favorite food is because from my knowledge of dog foods it appears to have the most meat of any food ive seeen even orijen.9well maybe not orijen but close) all of canidaes meat sources are in meal forms. it also has 5 different types of meats. the first 3 ingredients are all meals. wellness core has water inclusive emats as its first.
yet it has more protein..and no grains so im not sure if it maybe is better ha.who knows!


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## harrkim120

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> well i dont appreciate a company switching formulas without letting their loyal customers know. they dont even change the bags. this is unethical for a variety of reasons


I totally agree and honestly that would probably make me want to switch brands as well.



RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> right now i am SET IN MY MIND that i am switching. i have a promotion with my supplier if i buy 12 bags of canidae i get a 13th free. i have bought 11(have bag 11 unopened just bought it yesterday) so i will buy bag 12 and get 13 for free. then i will switch to wellness core!!! should i bother using canidae grain free for bags 12 and 13? or should i just buy two more regular canidae bags rather than switching from regular canidae to grain free,and then to wellness core?


If I were you I would make the switch to the grain free variety now. Yes, you will have to switch him twice, but IMO the benefits of going to a grain free, high protein kibble outweigh the trouble of transitioning the dog over. Also adding some probiotics can help make the switch a little easier on his gastrointestinal tract. :smile: Just out of curiousity...how long does one of the bags you buy last anyway? 



RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> the reason i consider canidae my personal favorite food is because from my knowledge of dog foods it appears to have the most meat of any food ive seeen even orijen.9well maybe not orijen but close) all of canidaes meat sources are in meal forms. it also has 5 different types of meats. the first 3 ingredients are all meals. wellness core has water inclusive emats as its first.
> yet it has more protein..and no grains so im not sure if it maybe is better ha.who knows!


Just because a food has only meals in doesn't necessarily mean that it contains more meat. It all depends on how much of the meal they put in there compared to the other ingredients. Also Wellness does use meals in their Core, just not the first on the list. General rule of thumb: meats that still have their water content are just fine so long as they're backed up by a meal.


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## Unosmom

Meat is 80% water, meat meal is meat with water and fat removed. 
Truthfully if the meat is listed as the first ingridient, it really isnt because of all the water (ingridients are listed prior to extruding). So its perfectly fine if the first ingridient is a named meat meal (ex chicken meal, lamb meal) and even though some manufacturers will list it like this:

chicken, chicken meal, potatoes.. etc
it actually looks more like this:

chicken meal, potatoes, chicken. 

Heres a link to Canidae lawsuit info and consumer affairs complaints:
Canidae Pet Food Class Action Investigation

Consumer complaints about CANIDAE Pet Foods


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## RawFedDogs

Unosmom said:


> Meat is 80% water, meat meal is meat with water and fat removed.


Meal is the ground up reminants of the carcass after the human usuable meat and by-products have been removed. A much lower quality protein than just meat. It is not dehydrated meat. There is actually very little meat/lb in meal. Of course the manufacturers want you to think differently.


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## whiteleo

Whats the deal RFD, are you leaving us?


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## wags

Tomato pumace is primarliy a filler.

I found this thread below from TOTW foods~

Tomato pomace is a controversial ingredient... by-product left over after the processing of tomatoes into juice, soup and ketchup.

Many praise tomato pomace for its high fiber and nutrient content… while others scorn it as a cheap pet food filler laden with pesticides found on the skin of the tomato before processing.


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## RawFedDogs

whiteleo said:


> Whats the deal RFD, are you leaving us?


huh? .......


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## whiteleo

You seem to be here less and less, just trying to get the real answers.


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## RawFedDogs

whiteleo said:


> You seem to be here less and less, just trying to get the real answers.


Hehe, I'm not leaving until someone kicks me out. LOL I have had some more stuff going on in my real life and have been away from home a little more lately. Also, I don't post every time I'm here. Maybe I'm just posting less. Seems there are people here who can answer a lot of the questions I normally answer and thats a good thing.


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## whiteleo

well I miss you!


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## jdatwood

RawFedDogs said:


> Hehe, I'm not leaving until someone kicks me out. LOL I have had some more stuff going on in my real life and have been away from home a little more lately. Also, I don't post every time I'm here. Maybe I'm just posting less. Seems there are people here who can answer a lot of the questions I normally answer and thats a good thing.


It's funny... we were just talking about this the other night. Figured you were taking time off now that you have more people to help you carry the load :wink:


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5

wags said:


> Tomato pumace is primarliy a filler.
> 
> I found this thread below from TOTW foods~
> 
> Tomato pomace is a controversial ingredient... by-product left over after the processing of tomatoes into juice, soup and ketchup.
> 
> Many praise tomato pomace for its high fiber and nutrient content… while others scorn it as a cheap pet food filler laden with pesticides found on the skin of the tomato before processing.


so does that mean wellness core is not one of the best/ i just looked and canidae has tomato pomace also............

would you guys say that canidae grain free is of equal quality to wellness core?
canidae grain free is substantially cheaper. 30 pounds for 42.79 at my store with tax.

and idont know how much my store charges for wellness core but most likely 58-60 dollars for 26 pounds. 

oh and am i missing something here? i thought that canidae sponsored the whole ''buy 12 bags get 1 free thing'' i know thats how it was when i fed nutro many years back. is petco pals a club where if i buy 10 bags of any food i get one free? i might just start buying my food at petco after i get my free bag from my current supplier. petcos probably cheaper as well.
but yeah wether i choose canidae or wellness do i get a free 11th bag with petco adn are their prices cheaper? and does pals offer discounts or just rewards like free bags


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## malluver1005

^^^^IMO, the better of the two would be Wellness Core Original Formula. It's got a lot less ingredients, and that's a plus for me. It's also got glucosamine/chondroitin which may not help a lot, but every little bit counts. Have you tried looking at other places other than petco? The petco I have here is insanely expensive. But, if it isn't a problem for you then keep at it. :smile:


*CANIDAE ALS Grain Free Ingredients*
Chicken meal, turkey meal, lamb, potatoes, peas, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), lamb meal, ocean fish meal, tomato pomace, natural flavor, choline chloride, suncured alfalfa meal, inulin (from chicory root), lecithin, sage extract, cranberries, beta-carotene, rosemary extract, sunflower oil, yucca schidigera extract, dried enterococcus faecium fermentation product, dried lactobacillus acidophilus fermentation product, dried lactobacillus casei fermentation product, dried lactobacillus plantarum fermentation product, dried trichoderma longibrachiatum fermentation extract, vitamin E supplement, iron proteinate, zinc proteinate, copper proteinate, ferrous sulfate, zinc sulfate, copper sulfate, potassium iodide, thiamine mononitrate, manganese proteinate, manganous oxide, ascorbic acid, vitamin A supplement, biotin, calcium pantothenate, manganese sulfate, sodium selenite, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), vitamin B12 supplement, riboflavin, vitamin D3 supplement, folic acid, cobalt proteinate, papaya, pineapple.

*Wellness Core Original Formula Ingredients*
Deboned Turkey, Deboned Chicken, Turkey Meal, Chicken Meal, Potatoes, Dried Ground Potato, Tomato Pomace, Natural Chicken Flavor, Canola Oil, Chicken Liver, Salmon Oil, Flaxseed, Carrots, Sweet Potatoes, Kale, Broccoli, Spinach, Parsley, Apples, Blueberries, Vitamins & Minerals, Chicory Root Extract, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Glucosamine Hydrochloride, Chondroitin Sulfate, Dried Lactobacillus plantarum, Enterococcus faecium, Lactobacillus casei, Lactobacillus acidophilus Fermentation Products, Rosemary Extract.


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## Todd

malluver1005 said:


> IMO, the better of the two would be Wellness Core Original Formula. It's got a lot less ingredients, and that's a plus for me. It's also got glucosamine/chondroitin which may not help a lot, but every little bit counts. Have you tried looking at other places other than petco? The petco I have here is insanely expensive. But, if it isn't a problem for you then keep at it. :smile:
> 
> 
> *CANIDAE ALS Grain Free Ingredients*
> Chicken meal, turkey meal, lamb, potatoes, peas, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), lamb meal, ocean fish meal, tomato pomace, natural flavor, choline chloride, suncured alfalfa meal, inulin (from chicory root), lecithin, sage extract, cranberries, beta-carotene, rosemary extract, sunflower oil, yucca schidigera extract, dried enterococcus faecium fermentation product, dried lactobacillus acidophilus fermentation product, dried lactobacillus casei fermentation product, dried lactobacillus plantarum fermentation product, dried trichoderma longibrachiatum fermentation extract, vitamin E supplement, iron proteinate, zinc proteinate, copper proteinate, ferrous sulfate, zinc sulfate, copper sulfate, potassium iodide, thiamine mononitrate, manganese proteinate, manganous oxide, ascorbic acid, vitamin A supplement, biotin, calcium pantothenate, manganese sulfate, sodium selenite, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), vitamin B12 supplement, riboflavin, vitamin D3 supplement, folic acid, cobalt proteinate, papaya, pineapple.
> 
> *Wellness Core Original Formula Ingredients*
> Deboned Turkey, Deboned Chicken, Turkey Meal, Chicken Meal, Potatoes, Dried Ground Potato, Tomato Pomace, Natural Chicken Flavor, Canola Oil, Chicken Liver, Salmon Oil, Flaxseed, Carrots, Sweet Potatoes, Kale, Broccoli, Spinach, Parsley, Apples, Blueberries, Vitamins & Minerals, Chicory Root Extract, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Glucosamine Hydrochloride, Chondroitin Sulfate, Dried Lactobacillus plantarum, Enterococcus faecium, Lactobacillus casei, Lactobacillus acidophilus Fermentation Products, Rosemary Extract.


is there a Pet People near you. There aren't many. I think just Ohio and California.


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## malluver1005

^^^^I've never even heard of pet people...


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## Todd

malluver1005 said:


> ^^^^I've never even heard of pet people...


it's not a big franchise. just a natural pet store. they have only one in ohio and i though they had one in california. privately owned type of thing i think. its pretty cool though. they carry all the natural pet foods, freezer bones, natural treats, etc.


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5

malluver1005 said:


> ^^^^IMO, the better of the two would be Wellness Core Original Formula. It's got a lot less ingredients, and that's a plus for me. It's also got glucosamine/chondroitin which may not help a lot, but every little bit counts. Have you tried looking at other places other than petco? The petco I have here is insanely expensive. But, if it isn't a problem for you then keep at it. :smile:
> 
> 
> *CANIDAE ALS Grain Free Ingredients*
> Chicken meal, turkey meal, lamb, potatoes, peas, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), lamb meal, ocean fish meal, tomato pomace, natural flavor, choline chloride, suncured alfalfa meal, inulin (from chicory root), lecithin, sage extract, cranberries, beta-carotene, rosemary extract, sunflower oil, yucca schidigera extract, dried enterococcus faecium fermentation product, dried lactobacillus acidophilus fermentation product, dried lactobacillus casei fermentation product, dried lactobacillus plantarum fermentation product, dried trichoderma longibrachiatum fermentation extract, vitamin E supplement, iron proteinate, zinc proteinate, copper proteinate, ferrous sulfate, zinc sulfate, copper sulfate, potassium iodide, thiamine mononitrate, manganese proteinate, manganous oxide, ascorbic acid, vitamin A supplement, biotin, calcium pantothenate, manganese sulfate, sodium selenite, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), vitamin B12 supplement, riboflavin, vitamin D3 supplement, folic acid, cobalt proteinate, papaya, pineapple.
> 
> *Wellness Core Original Formula Ingredients*
> Deboned Turkey, Deboned Chicken, Turkey Meal, Chicken Meal, Potatoes, Dried Ground Potato, Tomato Pomace, Natural Chicken Flavor, Canola Oil, Chicken Liver, Salmon Oil, Flaxseed, Carrots, Sweet Potatoes, Kale, Broccoli, Spinach, Parsley, Apples, Blueberries, Vitamins & Minerals, Chicory Root Extract, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Glucosamine Hydrochloride, Chondroitin Sulfate, Dried Lactobacillus plantarum, Enterococcus faecium, Lactobacillus casei, Lactobacillus acidophilus Fermentation Products, Rosemary Extract.


it still kind of upsets me that canidae has the meals as the first ingridients whereas wellness has them AFTER the water meats. i still feel like canidae has ahigher meat contenet. but ''rawfood' brought up a good point that meals are lower quality as wells. i dont know much about meats but ''deboned'' makes the meats in wellness sound pretty tasty.:biggrin:


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## Todd

deboned isn't a good thing. i would imagine that deboned means the meat taken off of the bone. Bone is a necessary component in any balanced canine diet. It doesn't make much sense to me, why would pet food manufactures go to the effort of deboning meat when the bone is actually very nutritious??? Unless they're using meat that had already been separated from the bone long before. Seems kind of ignorant to me. Kinda like the way some dog food companies display cobs of corn on pet food bags. don't they know that corn is one of the crappiest things for a dog??? they either think the majority of pet owners are ignorant or they're as dumb as I think they are! just goes to show you the lengths some people will go to make money. corporate america at its finest.


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5

Todd said:


> deboned isn't a good thing. i would imagine that deboned means the meat taken off of the bone. Bone is a necessary component in any balanced canine diet. It doesn't make much sense to me, why would pet food manufactures go to the effort of deboning meat when the bone is actually very nutritious??? Unless they're using meat that had already been separated from the bone long before. Seems kind of ignorant to me. Kinda like the way some dog food companies display cobs of corn on pet food bags. don't they know that corn is one of the crappiest things for a dog??? they either think the majority of pet owners are ignorant or they're as dumb as I think they are! just goes to show you the lengths some people will go to make money. corporate america at its finest.


well thats just great hahah. now im more confused than ever. i have no idea what to ddo now! i dont want to feed raw i prefer kibbles due to their convenience but i find faults with every single kibble.


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## malluver1005

^^If you can't feed the best thing, have you considered homecooking? If that's not your thing, have you looke at Orijen or Innova EVO dry foods?


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## harrkim120

malluver1005 said:


> ^^^^IMO, the better of the two would be Wellness Core Original Formula. It's got a lot less ingredients, and that's a plus for me. It's also got glucosamine/chondroitin which may not help a lot, but every little bit counts. Have you tried looking at other places other than petco? The petco I have here is insanely expensive. But, if it isn't a problem for you then keep at it. :smile:
> 
> 
> *CANIDAE ALS Grain Free Ingredients*
> Chicken meal, turkey meal, lamb, potatoes, peas, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), lamb meal, ocean fish meal, tomato pomace, natural flavor, choline chloride, suncured alfalfa meal, inulin (from chicory root), lecithin, sage extract, cranberries, beta-carotene, rosemary extract, sunflower oil, yucca schidigera extract, dried enterococcus faecium fermentation product, dried lactobacillus acidophilus fermentation product, dried lactobacillus casei fermentation product, dried lactobacillus plantarum fermentation product, dried trichoderma longibrachiatum fermentation extract, vitamin E supplement, iron proteinate, zinc proteinate, copper proteinate, ferrous sulfate, zinc sulfate, copper sulfate, potassium iodide, thiamine mononitrate, manganese proteinate, manganous oxide, ascorbic acid, vitamin A supplement, biotin, calcium pantothenate, manganese sulfate, sodium selenite, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), vitamin B12 supplement, riboflavin, vitamin D3 supplement, folic acid, cobalt proteinate, papaya, pineapple.
> 
> *Wellness Core Original Formula Ingredients*
> Deboned Turkey, Deboned Chicken, Turkey Meal, Chicken Meal, Potatoes, Dried Ground Potato, Tomato Pomace, Natural Chicken Flavor, Canola Oil, Chicken Liver, Salmon Oil, Flaxseed, Carrots, Sweet Potatoes, Kale, Broccoli, Spinach, Parsley, Apples, Blueberries, Vitamins & Minerals, Chicory Root Extract, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Glucosamine Hydrochloride, Chondroitin Sulfate, Dried Lactobacillus plantarum, Enterococcus faecium, Lactobacillus casei, Lactobacillus acidophilus Fermentation Products, Rosemary Extract.


The reason that it LOOKS like there's less ingredients in the Core is because they aren't listing their vitamins and minerals....they're just calling them "Vitamins & Minerals" From what I'm counting here, Canidae has less ingredients. 

However, I'm not sure if less ingredients matter to me...something to ponder I guess. 

As for the glucosamine/chondroitin that you're talking about...the amount in the food is so minimal that it won't make a difference. Also, any food with meat (chicken in particular) should have SOME in there, just not much. It comes from the cartilage and some other parts that I don't know. lol If you're looking for something that's going to give you an effect, then you're better off buying a hip and joint supplement separately. 

Now, don't get me wrong...I likes me some Wellness and IMO I would pick that over the Canidae...I just wanted to set the record straight. :wink:


----------



## RCTRIPLEFRESH5

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> well thats just great hahah. now im more confused than ever. i have no idea what to ddo now! i dont want to feed raw i prefer kibbles due to their convenience but i find faults with every single kibble.





malluver1005 said:


> ^^If you can't feed the best thing, have you considered homecooking? If that's not your thing, have you looke at Orijen or Innova EVO dry foods?


isnt raw the same as homecooked? but right ow id prefer to feed kibble. just a preference =p.
ive considered orijen heavily. however the nearest feed store is an hour away that carries it and you have to take the parkway and pay a toll.(directions say partial toll never heard this term)
innova evo ive considered as well. im pretty sure they've been recalled and removed from the list of safe foods i saw before. them and california natural as well. although i hear people say its not true but im pretty sure it is. also i sometimes see that dogs dont like evo? idk im not sure.

do dogs prefer red meat? i noticed a lot of people seem to like orijen red before their regular adult formulas(m one of the people who has fantasized about orijen red for my dog) but its got less protein so idk why i like it so much i just do. i guess its the water inclusive fresh boar thats probably barely in there.
but yeah i guess i can reconsider innova i just hope my dog can handle a grain free diet. i mean my dog is very healthy now so i hope i dont screw him up by switching =\. but he seems to be adaptable. ive had him on the good life recipe when we had a lighting storm here and i had only access to grocery store foods.

that leads me to another question. is purina 1 the best grocery food?


----------



## malluver1005

^^^Raw isn't the same as homecooked. By homecooked I mean, actually cooking the food for your dog. What I feed is a prey model raw diet and that is raw, no cooking so no nutrients are lost.

It's not that a lot of dogs don't like EVO, it's just that they can't handle it because it's really rich. I believe Innova has been recalled, but I haven't heard of EVO ever been involved in a recall.


----------



## malluver1005

harrkim120 said:


> The reason that it LOOKS like there's less ingredients in the Core is because they aren't listing their vitamins and minerals....they're just calling them "Vitamins & Minerals" From what I'm counting here, Canidae has less ingredients.


You are correct. I must have missed that. I kinda was in a hurry and just skimmed through the ingredients... 




harrkim120 said:


> As for the glucosamine/chondroitin that you're talking about...the amount in the food is so minimal that it won't make a difference. Also, any food with meat (chicken in particular) should have SOME in there, just not much. It comes from the cartilage and some other parts that I don't know. lol If you're looking for something that's going to give you an effect, then you're better off buying a hip and joint supplement separately.


I think it will make a small difference. That's why I said every little bit counts. Actually, I haven't even looked at the amounts so I might take back what I said . But yes, supplementing with a joint capsule is by far better.




harrkim120 said:


> Now, don't get me wrong...I likes me some Wellness and IMO I would pick that over the Canidae...I just wanted to set the record straight. :wink:


Me too! :tongue:


----------



## harrkim120

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> that leads me to another question. is purina 1 the best grocery food?


I don't know if there really is such a thing as the best grocery food. They are all pretty bad. lol 

I can tell you though that Purina Pro Plan is better than Purina One (by a little :wink so if the store has Pro Plan, you're better off with that.


----------



## RCTRIPLEFRESH5

malluver1005 said:


> ^^^Raw isn't the same as homecooked. By homecooked I mean, actually cooking the food for your dog. What I feed is a prey model raw diet and that is raw, no cooking so no nutrients are lost.
> 
> It's not that a lot of dogs don't like EVO, it's just that they can't handle it because it's really rich. I believe Innova has been recalled, but I haven't heard of EVO ever been involved in a recall.


yeah idk anymore. id just hate to change his diet and have him get sick. im not even sure if i should change him off of regular canidae to canidae grain free? im just scared he will get sick somehow. grain free canidae isnt too rich though just 34 percent protein. although i do see less meat sources than in standard canidae it looks like.

well innova and california naturals were involved and they are made i nthe same plant.
i think the only plant not effected was wellpetinc. im not sure though. idk how these plants were effected since these foods shouldnt be using ingredients from china in the first place. thats why ilike canidae they use USA. does wellness use USA?idk i have some thinking to do. i think for now ill leave my choices at...
canidae ALS(current food), canidae ALS GRAIN FREE, wellness regular,wellness core
also i just looked at eagle pack which is supposedly premium and the ingredients are horrible/


Chicken Meal, Ground Brown Rice, Ground White Rice, Ground Yellow Corn, Chicken Fat (Preserved With Natural Mixed Tocopherols), Dried Beet Pulp, Pork Meal, Brewers Dried Yeast, Anchovy & Sardine Meals, Flaxseed, Dried Egg Product, Wheat Germ Meal, Salt, Potassium Chloride, Glucosamine Hydrochloride, Yucca Schidigera Extract, DL-Methionine, Vitamin A Acetate,Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, d-Pantothenic Acid, Niacin Supplement, Choline Chloride, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Thiamine Mononitrate, Folic Acid, Ascorbic Acid, Biotin, Lecithin, Rosemary Extract, Inositol, Kelp, Polysaccharide Complexes Of Zinc, Iron, Manganese, Copper and Cobalt, Potassium Iodate, Sodium Selenite, Lactobacillus acidophilus, Lactobacillus casei, Enterococcus faecium, B. subtilus, Bacillus licheniformis, Bacillus coagulins, Aspergillus oryzae, and Aspergillus niger.


----------



## RCTRIPLEFRESH5

harrkim120 said:


> I don't know if there really is such a thing as the best grocery food. They are all pretty bad. lol
> 
> I can tell you though that Purina Pro Plan is better than Purina One (by a little :wink so if the store has Pro Plan, you're better off with that.


hahah nah pro plan is a pet superstore food. lie petco or petsmart its too good for groceries.

i guess since theyre all bad if need be ill get the one on sale lol.


----------



## malluver1005

Yes, eagle pack definitely does not have enough meat!


----------



## harrkim120

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> i guess since theyre all bad if need be ill get the one on sale lol.


As tempting as that may be I would still look at the ingredients. You're not going to find a good one most likely, but some will be better than others. It's tough to say what I think because I don't know what your grocery store carries. If you would care to list, I'd be glad to give an opinion. :biggrin:


----------



## RCTRIPLEFRESH5

malluver1005 said:


> Yes, eagle pack definitely does not have enough meat!


well not only that but its full of corn,beet pulp, and all other things i font want my dog eating.

grain free canidae looks decent. high protein but not super high,and if my dog is doing well on canidae he will probably bot get sick on grain free right? im just trying to decide if this is a smart choice.
i hate having a loved ones life in my hands =\ hahaha.
the grain free has less calories than the regular als which surprises me. im guessing it tastes better though? it says it has 80 percent protein from meat is that comparable to orijens and wellness?


----------



## Unosmom

Deboning helps them regulate how much calcium gets into the food, since more meat=more bone and too much calcium can interfere with growth of larger breed dogs. 

Anyways, I never used canidae before, but I've had decent results with Core though my dogs coat was never as shiny until I switched to orijen, acana provincial and horizon legacy. 

You dont have to feed just one brand of food, which can often result in dog developing allergies over time from eating same protein/carb sources, If you pick Wellness core, I reccomend rotating between their chicken and fish formulas. Or you can feed both Core and Canidae if no stomach issues arise between rotations.


----------



## wags

I wouldn't be to worried about the tomato pomace. Pea fiber is another one for concern which they provide protein and fiber. Tomatoes do have vitamin C which is a good thing. I don't worry about these ingredients.

If you go to the web sight for wellness you can get coupons for money off also. You can join the wellpet club and also receive there coupons. I have done this and gotten 3 dollar and 5 dollar coupons, as well as 2 dollar off on their treats! Here is the wellness sight WellPet – 

WELLNESS® - Healthy Dog and Cat Food


----------



## Unosmom

I agree, I dont think tomato pomace is that big of a deal, its only there in fractional quantaties and is usually just pulp and skin thats left over after processing tomatoes for ketchup and whatnot. Uno actually loves tomatoes and eats them whole.


----------



## wags

I am laughing :biggrin:about Uno eating the tomatoes beacuase on the side of our house we have a small garden I grow every year and yep its the tomatoes (when I take the dogs out there) that they seem to go for~~ with me saying "hey those are for us not your guys treats" hahaha! Dogs gotta love "em!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:biggrin:


----------



## RCTRIPLEFRESH5

Unosmom said:


> Deboning helps them regulate how much calcium gets into the food, since more meat=more bone and too much calcium can interfere with growth of larger breed dogs.
> 
> Anyways, I never used canidae before, but I've had decent results with Core though my dogs coat was never as shiny until I switched to orijen, acana provincial and horizon legacy.
> 
> You dont have to feed just one brand of food, which can often result in dog developing allergies over time from eating same protein/carb sources, If you pick Wellness core, I reccomend rotating between their chicken and fish formulas. Or you can feed both Core and Canidae if no stomach issues arise between rotations.


does orijen or wellness offer free samples or coupons iof i email them? ive heard theres an orijen shortage so im guessing not...what about wellness inc?
does wellness use usa quality ingredients?


----------



## wags

I know Orijen has the plan like the canidae does buy so many bags get one free. This was though a bit back so hopefully they do the same thing! When you buy your first bag ask where you get it from for the paper to sign up for the get the 10th bag free I believe it is! You send it in!:smile:

WellPet – The Healthiest Natural Products for Pets this is the wellness again

Orijen Pet Foods: FAQs this is orijen


----------



## RCTRIPLEFRESH5

harrkim120 said:


> I totally agree and honestly that would probably make me want to switch brands as well.
> 
> 
> 
> If I were you I would make the switch to the grain free variety now. Yes, you will have to switch him twice, but IMO the benefits of going to a grain free, high protein kibble outweigh the trouble of transitioning the dog over. Also adding some probiotics can help make the switch a little easier on his gastrointestinal tract. :smile: Just out of curiousity...how long does one of the bags you buy last anyway?
> 
> 
> 
> Just because a food has only meals in doesn't necessarily mean that it contains more meat. It all depends on how much of the meal they put in there compared to the other ingredients. Also Wellness does use meals in their Core, just not the first on the list. General rule of thumb: meats that still have their water content are just fine so long as they're backed up by a meal.


i have been reading the ''top 5 foods list'' and apparently some dogs gain weight on grain free =\. my dog isnt active because its so cold here in new jersey that he just lays in bed. i cant walk him in the freezing cold and ice hahah/ i mean i dont plan on switching him until the summer,but im not gonna be that active with him in the summer. i mean my dad will take him for a few walks a day and ill take him as well at night. i just feel like if i switch him to grain free it will force me to exercise him more which i guess is good.

a 35 pound bag of canidae lasts our 75 pound golden for 1.5-2 months./ idk if that means he doesn't like it or not??

i free feed him since he keeps a good weight and eats only enough to keep his weight on

however when i transition him i will measure the food out.

im jsut worried because i know that when csanidae switched their formulas a lot of dogs got ill. im switching from canidae to canidae grain free. thats a huge increase in protein. 10 grams !i


----------



## Unosmom

Orijen doesent give out samples or coupons, if you go on their website and find retailers that carry it, they sell these 1-lb bags, I think for $2.99

Wellness, I'm not entirely sure, but when you go on their site and sign up for Naturally Well pet club, they'll send you coupons every 3-4 weeks or so. 
WELLNESS® - Healthy Dog and Cat Food

You may still want to email them to see if they'll send you samples in the mail though. 

You should also look into Acana provincial, its made by the same company as Orijen, just lower protein (33-34%), I have a 67 lb dog and the 30 lb bag lasts me couple months.


----------



## J&T

A recent edition of Animal Wellness had articles about diabetes in dogs and also a section on kidney disease which really goes hand in hand. Apparently newer studies are suggesting that high meat based protein, mid level fat and low carb diets have been showing a reduced need for additional insulin amounts. High protein, mid fat and lower carb would be many grain free foods but there are those that start with potatoe which is a carb and does provide proteins.(Natural Balance for one). They also recommended greater use of similar canned foods as they are more quickly digested than kibbles.

No one food will work with every dog. After many months of good results with TOTW they all got gassy at the same time. Switched to canidaie GF -two put on lots of weight, the boxer couldn't keep weight up despite modifying their feeding amounts. The two oldest ended on EVO weight management and it is/was great. The boxer ended up on Merrick Before Grain, lower protein and fat so resultant higher carbs than many others(a bit closer to the TOTW style). It worked well for her.

All their diets have now moved to the next level, and I don't intend to go back to kibble grain free but definetly is worth the extra dollars and the time to find the one that works the best.


----------



## RCTRIPLEFRESH5

Unosmom said:


> Orijen doesent give out samples or coupons, if you go on their website and find retailers that carry it, they sell these 1-lb bags, I think for $2.99
> 
> Wellness, I'm not entirely sure, but when you go on their site and sign up for Naturally Well pet club, they'll send you coupons every 3-4 weeks or so.
> WELLNESS® - Healthy Dog and Cat Food
> 
> You may still want to email them to see if they'll send you samples in the mail though.
> 
> You should also look into Acana provincial, its made by the same company as Orijen, just lower protein (33-34%), I have a 67 lb dog and the 30 lb bag lasts me couple months.


i searched acan provincial and just came up to some site that was in a strange language.

anyway canidae emailed me back now ill probably email wellness
Hi,

Thank you for taking the time to inquire about our products. I will be happy to mail out a sample of CANIDAE GRAIN FREE ALS for your pet to try, as well as a coupon for you. We appreciate your support and I look forward to helping you find the best food for your pet.

Sincerely,
Hub
Customer Service Representative
CANIDAE Corp.
1975 Tandem Way
Norco, Ca 92860
1-800-398-1600


----------



## RCTRIPLEFRESH5

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> i have been reading the ''top 5 foods list'' and apparently some dogs gain weight on grain free =\. my dog isnt active because its so cold here in new jersey that he just lays in bed. i cant walk him in the freezing cold and ice hahah/ i mean i dont plan on switching him until the summer,but im not gonna be that active with him in the summer. i mean my dad will take him for a few walks a day and ill take him as well at night. i just feel like if i switch him to grain free it will force me to exercise him more which i guess is good.
> 
> a 35 pound bag of canidae lasts our 75 pound golden for 1.5-2 months./ idk if that means he doesn't like it or not??
> 
> i free feed him since he keeps a good weight and eats only enough to keep his weight on
> 
> however when i transition him i will measure the food out.
> 
> im jsut worried because i know that when csanidae switched their formulas a lot of dogs got ill. im switching from canidae to canidae grain free. thats a huge increase in protein. 10 grams !i


so i guess the general concensus is even though my dogs doing well on canidae, i should still try out grain free canidae also.>

canidae grain free says 80 percent of its protein is from meats is that ccomparable to orijens or cores?


----------



## Unosmom

heres a link to acana store locators:
Champion Petfoods | ACANA | Locator


----------



## Khan

Just scanning thru some of these post. Not sure if this was already mentioned. If it was I apologize. 
There is a publication called The Whole Dog Journal. Every year it has an entire issue dedicated to the different dog food brands. They have been doing this for a while; but with the recalls a few years back it really became popular. The publication does not have any advertisements so they are not "pushing" any products. The reviews they give are based solely on the ingredients listed in comparisons to other foods and their ingredients. This is a GREAT resource for many things. Highly recommend this for more than just the dog food comparison!!


----------



## RCTRIPLEFRESH5

Unosmom said:


> heres a link to acana store locators:
> Champion Petfoods | ACANA | Locator


Idk if im missing something here but canidae is 80/20 meats:vegetables and 1 percent more protein
also its closer and most likely less costly.
for a food with relatively the same percentage of protein it seems like canidae would be a better choice because its mostly meat where as acan is slightly more than half meat/ canidae is 80 percent lol,.

it has dhea though isnt that bad for dogs brains?
(sorry caps)
anyway to be honest THIS LOOKS LIKE A BETTER QUALITY FOOD THAN ACAN PROVINCIAL AND looks equal to core or orijen. its also fairly cheap for a grain free high meats food. at 43 dollars with tax for 30 pounds. with the coupon canidae is sending it might be 40 dollars with tax which is great.


----------



## RCTRIPLEFRESH5

Khan said:


> Just scanning thru some of these post. Not sure if this was already mentioned. If it was I apologize.
> There is a publication called The Whole Dog Journal. Every year it has an entire issue dedicated to the different dog food brands. They have been doing this for a while; but with the recalls a few years back it really became popular. The publication does not have any advertisements so they are not "pushing" any products. The reviews they give are based solely on the ingredients listed in comparisons to other foods and their ingredients. This is a GREAT resource for many things. Highly recommend this for more than just the dog food comparison!!


i looked on their site and couldnt find the reviews =9


----------



## Khan

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> i looked on their site and couldnt find the reviews =9


hmm, I have not been to their site for a while. I would be more than happy to scan and email you the info. send me a message with your email and I will gladly get it to you. :biggrin:


----------



## RCTRIPLEFRESH5

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> Idk if im missing something here but canidae is 80/20 meats:vegetables and 1 percent more protein
> also its closer and most likely less costly.
> for a food with relatively the same percentage of protein it seems like canidae would be a better choice because its mostly meat where as acan is slightly more than half meat/ canidae is 80 percent lol,.
> 
> it has dhea though isnt that bad for dogs brains?
> (sorry caps)
> anyway to be honest THIS LOOKS LIKE A BETTER QUALITY FOOD THAN ACAN PROVINCIAL AND looks equal to core or orijen. its also fairly cheap for a grain free high meats food. at 43 dollars with tax for 30 pounds. with the coupon canidae is sending it might be 40 dollars with tax which is great.


anyone have any thoughts?^^^^^^^^
even orijen is 70:30 which means canidae has the most meat on the market and is cheap. i think people are just sour theyre manufactured at diamond. but canidaes never been recalled. ill be honest they look like the best quality food i can find, this is prolly why i chose them wayyy back but the grain freeformula looks like a good option. i just want to know if they use that preservative in fish that starts with an E thats bad for dogs? i heard its used in diamonds processing and it doesnt say different on canidaes bag.

also what is different about the new formula canidae vs the old formula? i thought they just added more grains to the ALS? ISNT THE GRAIN FREE THE SAME AS IT USED TO BE?ive seeen people complain about the grain free as well but theyre prob money hungry idiots=p.


----------



## wags

here are from the FDA pet food recalls as of Jan. 11, 2010

Pet Food Recall Products List


----------



## RCTRIPLEFRESH5

wags said:


> here are from the FDA pet food recalls as of Jan. 11, 2010
> 
> Pet Food Recall Products List


not to sound rude but i dont see how that relates to my questions =p
canidae isnt on there. but champion is and they make orijen.


----------



## wags

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> not to sound rude but i dont see how that relates to my questions =p
> canidae isnt on there. but champion is and they make orijen.


again its the bisquits not the dog food. Read what the champion says on the dog food recall sight. There are many numerous counsumer complaints about canidae. But if it works for your dog that is great! I just want to put out there what is recalled! Sorry you felt it did not relate to your question. But you in turn did not read what the recall was on for the champion brand!


----------



## RCTRIPLEFRESH5

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> Idk if im missing something here but canidae is 80/20 meats:vegetables and 1 percent more protein
> also its closer and most likely less costly.
> for a food with relatively the same percentage of protein it seems like canidae would be a better choice because its mostly meat where as acan is slightly more than half meat/ canidae is 80 percent lol,.
> 
> it has dhea though isnt that bad for dogs brains?
> (sorry caps)
> anyway to be honest THIS LOOKS LIKE A BETTER QUALITY FOOD THAN ACAN PROVINCIAL AND looks equal to core or orijen. its also fairly cheap for a grain free high meats food. at 43 dollars with tax for 30 pounds. with the coupon canidae is sending it might be 40 dollars with tax which is great.





RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> anyone have any thoughts?^^^^^^^^
> even orijen is 70:30 which means canidae has the most meat on the market and is cheap. i think people are just sour theyre manufactured at diamond. but canidaes never been recalled. ill be honest they look like the best quality food i can find, this is prolly why i chose them wayyy back but the grain freeformula looks like a good option. i just want to know if they use that preservative in fish that starts with an E thats bad for dogs? i heard its used in diamonds processing and it doesnt say different on canidaes bag.
> 
> also what is different about the new formula canidae vs the old formula? i thought they just added more grains to the ALS? ISNT THE GRAIN FREE THE SAME AS IT USED TO BE?ive seeen people complain about the grain free as well but theyre prob money hungry idiots=p.


i know therres a lot of knowledgable people here any thoughts?


----------



## wags

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> not to sound rude but i dont see how that relates to my questions =p
> canidae isnt on there. but champion is and they make orijen.


i also found this~

Champion Petfoods, Ltd. 

Brands include Origen and Acana 
Own and operate their own production facilities in Morinville, Alberta, Canada 
They make their own foods exclusively - their mandate is to produce world-class foods from fresh regional ingredients. That means almost all of their ingredients (over 90% for ORIJEN) are raised, fished or farmed within western Canada. 
Only imported ingredients are lamb from New Zealand and rice from California - these are used in their ACANA brand foods. 
They do not, and never have, had their brands produced or co-packed by any other pet food producer. 
They do not use glutens or other vegetable proteins in any of their foods. 
ORIJEN and ACANA foods are not on any recall list.


----------



## RCTRIPLEFRESH5

wags said:


> i also found this~
> 
> Champion Petfoods, Ltd.
> 
> Brands include Origen and Acana
> Own and operate their own production facilities in Morinville, Alberta, Canada
> They make their own foods exclusively - their mandate is to produce world-class foods from fresh regional ingredients. That means almost all of their ingredients (over 90% for ORIJEN) are raised, fished or farmed within western Canada.
> Only imported ingredients are lamb from New Zealand and rice from California - these are used in their ACANA brand foods.
> They do not, and never have, had their brands produced or co-packed by any other pet food producer.
> They do not use glutens or other vegetable proteins in any of their foods.
> ORIJEN and ACANA foods are not on any recall list.


ok what is your point? that isnt even fro mthis thread? how come noone is helping me with the latest questions i asked/ i mean i probably sound rude now, and i dont mean too but im sure a lot of you are evry knowledgeable on what im asking. it would be very helpful if you can take the time to help with the questions iactually had asked.

heres the posts...


RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> Idk if im missing something here but canidae is 80/20 meats:vegetables and 1 percent more protein
> also its closer and most likely less costly.
> for a food with relatively the same percentage of protein it seems like canidae would be a better choice because its mostly meat where as acan is slightly more than half meat/ canidae is 80 percent lol,.
> 
> it has dhea though isnt that bad for dogs brains?
> (sorry caps)
> anyway to be honest THIS LOOKS LIKE A BETTER QUALITY FOOD THAN ACAN PROVINCIAL AND looks equal to core or orijen. its also fairly cheap for a grain free high meats food. at 43 dollars with tax for 30 pounds. with the coupon canidae is sending it might be 40 dollars with tax which is great.





RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> anyone have any thoughts?^^^^^^^^
> even orijen is 70:30 which means canidae has the most meat on the market and is cheap. i think people are just sour theyre manufactured at diamond. but canidaes never been recalled. ill be honest they look like the best quality food i can find, this is prolly why i chose them wayyy back but the grain freeformula looks like a good option. i just want to know if they use that preservative in fish that starts with an E thats bad for dogs? i heard its used in diamonds processing and it doesnt say different on canidaes bag.
> 
> also what is different about the new formula canidae vs the old formula? i thought they just added more grains to the ALS? ISNT THE GRAIN FREE THE SAME AS IT USED TO BE?ive seeen people complain about the grain free as well but theyre prob money hungry idiots=p.


----------



## malluver1005

^^^^I'm guessing others aren't replying maybe because they don't know? Who knows. I wish I could help you out but I don't want to give you wrong info. I don't have the answers to your questions...sorry. :frown:

Hopefully, someone will chime in sooner or later...


----------



## wags

are you talking about canidae platIinum? If this is the canidae its very heavy on the grains. canidae als is aslo heavy on the grains. I don't care for the product. Acana would be my choice. The acana provincial 3 types are grain free.


----------



## RCTRIPLEFRESH5

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> Idk if im missing something here but canidae is 80/20 meats:vegetables and 1 percent more protein
> also its closer and most likely less costly.
> for a food with relatively the same percentage of protein it seems like canidae would be a better choice because its mostly meat where as acan is slightly more than half meat/ canidae is 80 percent lol,.
> 
> it has dhea though isnt that bad for dogs brains?
> (sorry caps)
> anyway to be honest THIS LOOKS LIKE A BETTER QUALITY FOOD THAN ACAN PROVINCIAL AND looks equal to core or orijen. its also fairly cheap for a grain free high meats food. at 43 dollars with tax for 30 pounds. with the coupon canidae is sending it might be 40 dollars with tax which is great.





wags said:


> are you talking about canidae platIinum? If this is the canidae its very heavy on the grains. canidae als is aslo heavy on the grains. I don't care for the product. Acana would be my choice. The acana provincial 3 types are grain free.


noi im talking about canidae grain free. i have been feeding my dog canidae ALS for years and hes doing fine, but id like to move him to a more emat based diet! canidae grain free has 80 percent of its proteins from meats, and iot also has 34 percent protein which isnt overkill.

orijen has only 70 percent protein from meat and over 40 percent total protein!


----------



## 1605

malluver1005 said:


> ^^If you can't feed the best thing, have you considered homecooking? If that's not your thing, have you looke at Orijen or Innova EVO dry foods?


I'm wondering that as well. Zio's eating Evo Turkey/Chicken which has the highest percentage of protein out there at 43%. And given all the work he was doing last weekend hunt training, I'm glad he's on it!


----------



## RCTRIPLEFRESH5

malluver1005 said:


> ^^^^I'm guessing others aren't replying maybe because they don't know? Who knows. I wish I could help you out but I don't want to give you wrong info. I don't have the answers to your questions...sorry. :frown:
> 
> Hopefully, someone will chime in sooner or later...


some of my questions are basic though.

like is dhea bad for dogs brains?

also why dont people csall canidae grain free the ebst dog food?it has the most meat of any dog food on the market, and it doesnt have the outrageous protein amounts either.

which i find weird brcause more meat usually equal more protein.=p/

my dogs inactive since its too cold to take him out and ehs doing fine on a grain diet i just dont ant to make him sick by switching but irealy want him on a meat diet. if hes doing well on canidae ALS i assume he should be fine on canidae grain frees.



also this is a kind of basic question
also what is different about the new formula canidae vs the old formula? i thought they just added more grains to the ALS? ISNT THE GRAIN FREE THE SAME AS IT USED TO BE?ive seeen people complain about the grain free as well but theyre prob money hungry


----------



## malluver1005

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> and it doesnt have the outrageous protein amounts either.


Actually, the higher the percentage of meat protein the better. :smile:


----------



## Todd

malluver1005 said:


> Actually, the higher the percentage of meat protein the better. :smile:


Exactly! Dogs are carnivores. Most people think high protein diets in dogs causes kidney problems. Entirely untrue. Protein can cause kidney failure in dogs if there is too much protein fed that is not of good quality or from meat. For example, super high amounts of protein coming primarily from corn or potatoes can cause kidney issues, but not high amounts of protein from quality protein, in this case meat protein. In a quality food, the more MEAT PROTEIN the better!!:smile:


----------



## RCTRIPLEFRESH5

malluver1005 said:


> Actually, the higher the percentage of meat protein the better. :smile:


exactly. orijen has a higher total percentage of protein but its only 70 percent meat protein. canidae has less overall percentage of protein but 80 percent of its protein i from meat lol.

canidae has the highest content of meat on the market. 80 PERCENT IS FROM MEAT!!


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## malluver1005

Canidae grain-free is a great feed. The only thing that bothers me (this is IMO) is the carbs. It has 26.90%. Dogs don't need carbs in their diet. That is why when Aspen was on kibble, I found something that has 12%. :smile:


----------



## RCTRIPLEFRESH5

malluver1005 said:


> Canidae grain-free is a great feed. The only thing that bothers me (this is IMO) is the carbs. It has 26.90%. Dogs don't need carbs in their diet. That is why when Aspen was on kibble, I found something that has 12%. :smile:


well i have samples of wellness core and canidae grain free in the mail. i will try the canidae first since he is doing well on ALS.

ive read that you shouldnt mix grain food with grain free food. the digestion rate is different and can cause health problems in dogs.

so how do i transition shane from grained to grain free?


----------



## malluver1005

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> well i have samples of wellness core and canidae grain free in the mail. i will try the canidae first since he is doing well on ALS.
> 
> ive read that you shouldnt mix grain food with grain free food. the digestion rate is different and can cause health problems in dogs.
> 
> so how do i transition shane from grained to grain free?


I love that name, Shane!! Okay, I would do this over the course of 1 to 2 weeks. Start by adding in 1/4 of the grain free to his normal amount of the grain food. I would just keep doing 1/4 for about 3 days and then start increasing the grain free and decreasing the grain. He is going to require less of the grain free. Example: if you feed him 3 cups for the entire day of the grain, try about 2 cups of the grain free for the day and see how he does. If you see him lose a few lbs. increase and vice versa. But, he will always require less of the grain free because it is so rich. If you overfeed the grain free, or even feed the same amount as the grain, he will gain weight. Good luck and let us know how he does!! :smile:


----------



## Ania's Mommy

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> ive read that you shouldnt mix grain food with grain free food. the digestion rate is different and can cause health problems in dogs.


That's not true. Mixing *raw* food and *kibble *is a no no. But there's no difference in the digestion rates of *grained* and *grain free *kibble.

Malluver gave a great transition timeline. :tongue:

Richelle


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## wags

I have written to Canidae and gotten no response . I asked if their fish is Ethoxyquin free. I have written twice to them and have gotten no response. I am not sure since the formula change if they are useing Ethoxyquin or not.


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## Unosmom

They probably do since Canidae has been bought out by Diamond.


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## wags

This is ironic I write on here that I have written twice to canidae no answer and wooohoooo I look and yep a response. I am listing it in the dog discussion section under canidae answers my question what do you think about it. Well if the title all fits! So look at it!


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5

ok, so ihave recieved my samples. i have samples of
wellness large breed adult
wellness core original
canidae grain free
canidae als
so i was thinking of putting 1 kibble of each on the floor and seeing which he chooses.

im just concerned this will make him sick?

also can i feed the others to him as a treat everyday or will this make him sick?

just like 2 kibbles a day


----------



## Ania's Mommy

No, eating 4 pieces of differing kinds of kibble wil most likely not make your dog sick. 

But I don't think this is going to work the way you may think... Your dog isn't going to look at each little kibble and think "Hmm, whichever one I pick will be the one I'm fed for awhile. So I better evaluate each one fully before I choose." I think your dogs gonna see treats on the floor, and eat them in no particular order.

I think you may be overthinking this. Feed your dog what YOU want to feed him/her. It could even be a combo of the four you narrowed it down to (although I would stay away from mixing grain free foods with grain inclusive foods because there's no point in spending money on grain free when you're just gonna add grain). 

ETA: If you do decide against any of your samples, then giving them out as treats shouldn't be a problem. That's what we did with sapmle packs that were given to us. :wink:

Richelle


----------



## GermanSheperdlover

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> ok, so ihave recieved my samples. i have samples of
> wellness large breed adult
> wellness core original
> canidae grain free
> canidae als
> so i was thinking of putting 1 kibble of each on the floor and seeing which he chooses.
> 
> im just concerned this will make him sick?
> 
> also can i feed the others to him as a treat everyday or will this make him sick?
> 
> just like 2 kibbles a day


I did something simular. I first feed my dog almost his normal serving, then I would empty the entire sample bag into his bowl. When I tried it with Fromms duck and TOTW wetlands he ate it so fast you would have thought he hadn't eaten in a month. And that is how I found out, HE JUST LOVES ANYTHING DUCK.


----------



## CorgiPaws

Okay, I'm totally jumping into this thread late, and i read the pages, well, skimmed them, so sorry if some of this has already been said. 

Canidae is not an awful food. In fact, my GSD mix did great on it. I was definately satisfied with it. While I am not pleased they changed their formula without releasing a statement, honestly, with the uproar it caused, I don't see them making that mistake again. I never used canidae before the formula change, if that matters. If your dog does well on it, then GREAT. Keep it up. 

If you're looking to go grain free, then Canidae Grain Free ALS is also a good food. It's cost effective, and IMO just as good as most other grain free foods on the market. (slightly off topic: when I brought my cat home from the SPCA< Felidae grain free was her saving grace, it was the only food I could get her to eat, and trust me, we tried EVERYTHING)

You can pick the labels apart as much as you want. Canidae ALS is still a good food at the end of the day, and so is CORE. I personally like CORE just a little better, but would have no problem using both in a rotation. 

THAT BEING SAID:
I think that no matter WHAT kind of diet, be it raw, homecooked, or kibble.. VARIETY IS KEY. The worst thing you could do is pick just one food and feed that one food for the entirety of the dog's life. I would greatly advise picking a number of foods, made by different companies, that use different protein sources and use them ALL in a rotation. The reason I say pick some from different companies, is if one has a recall (all kibbles do eventually) then you already have other foods you've used, your dog does well on, and can revert to. The different protein sources is more important though.

If you can't decide between core, canidae grain free, and a few other grain free foods, then by all means, use them all! Rotate them. Mix it up. Heck, I buy any and every grain free food on the market for my kibble junkie cat! I never buy the same thing two bags in a row. 
Anyway, just my two cents.


----------



## RCTRIPLEFRESH5

Ania's Mommy said:


> No, eating 4 pieces of differing kinds of kibble wil most likely not make your dog sick.
> 
> But I don't think this is going to work the way you may think... Your dog isn't going to look at each little kibble and think "Hmm, whichever one I pick will be the one I'm fed for awhile. So I better evaluate each one fully before I choose." I think your dogs gonna see treats on the floor, and eat them in no particular order.
> 
> I think you may be overthinking this. Feed your dog what YOU want to feed him/her. It could even be a combo of the four you narrowed it down to (although I would stay away from mixing grain free foods with grain inclusive foods because there's no point in spending money on grain free when you're just gonna add grain).
> 
> ETA: If you do decide against any of your samples, then giving them out as treats shouldn't be a problem. That's what we did with sapmle packs that were given to us. :wink:
> 
> Richelle


i havent received the canidae samples yet i mistook lol. they are in the mail.
but i just did a trial test. i put wellness large breed on the left, canidae ALS in the middle(current food) and core on the right.

he picked the large breed up and spit it out, then ate the core, then ate the large breed again, followed by the canidae. i thought i had the samples lol

i never really planned on feeding the large breed anyway, but i figured itd be cool to get a sample. my narrowed choices are canidae grain free, and wellness core. i really think if my dog is doing well on canidae ALS he would thrive on canidae grain free.
plus 30 pounds for 43 bucks with tax is pretty good. and i like how it has 80 percent protein from meats.
only scary thing is that they use fish preservatives. hopefully i get my canidae sample soon so i can see how he likes it.

one thing that concerns me with the wellness samples is that the kibble is very small. he might swallow it whole, and it wont be good for the teeth. he is approaching 7 years so id like a kibble that will scrub his teeth some.


----------



## CorgiPaws

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> hopefully i get my canidae sample soon so i can see how he likes it.


Just keep in mind that YOU are the human. YOU decide what the dog eats. SOme dogs plain don't get excited about kibble. My Boxer was one of them. Mealtime was not her thing before I changed my ways of feeding her. 



RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> one thing that concerns me with the wellness samples is that the kibble is very small. he might swallow it whole, and it wont be good for the teeth. he is approaching 7 years so id like a kibble that will scrub his teeth some.


This is one of the most common misconceptions about kibble. Kibble does NOT scrape away all the junk on their teeth. In fact, where do you think the gunk comes from to begin with? lol. Most dogs don't chew their food any more than what's necessary to get it to fit down their throats. All kibble is already small enough. 
Even on the rare chance a dog were to chew their kibble, the tooth benefits aren't going to be quite what you think they are. I always tell people to go eat coco puffs dry for one week. nothing else. Don't brush your teeth, and report back in a week. 

A great way to clean teeth is with bones. A beef rib once a week is a wonderful alternative to daily brushing. Even things like nylabones are far more benefitial than kibble as far as dental cleanliness goes.


----------



## malluver1005

CorgiPaws said:


> A great way to clean teeth is with bones. A beef rib once a week is a wonderful alternative to daily brushing.


Beef ribs are awesome...!!! :biggrin:


----------



## RCTRIPLEFRESH5

CorgiPaws said:


> Okay, I'm totally jumping into this thread late, and i read the pages, well, skimmed them, so sorry if some of this has already been said.
> 
> Canidae is not an awful food. In fact, my GSD mix did great on it. I was definately satisfied with it. While I am not pleased they changed their formula without releasing a statement, honestly, with the uproar it caused, I don't see them making that mistake again. I never used canidae before the formula change, if that matters. If your dog does well on it, then GREAT. Keep it up.
> 
> If you're looking to go grain free, then Canidae Grain Free ALS is also a good food. It's cost effective, and IMO just as good as most other grain free foods on the market. (slightly off topic: when I brought my cat home from the SPCA< Felidae grain free was her saving grace, it was the only food I could get her to eat, and trust me, we tried EVERYTHING)
> 
> You can pick the labels apart as much as you want. Canidae ALS is still a good food at the end of the day, and so is CORE. I personally like CORE just a little better, but would have no problem using both in a rotation.
> 
> THAT BEING SAID:
> I think that no matter WHAT kind of diet, be it raw, homecooked, or kibble.. VARIETY IS KEY. The worst thing you could do is pick just one food and feed that one food for the entirety of the dog's life. I would greatly advise picking a number of foods, made by different companies, that use different protein sources and use them ALL in a rotation. The reason I say pick some from different companies, is if one has a recall (all kibbles do eventually) then you already have other foods you've used, your dog does well on, and can revert to. The different protein sources is more important though.
> 
> If you can't decide between core, canidae grain free, and a few other grain free foods, then by all means, use them all! Rotate them. Mix it up. Heck, I buy any and every grain free food on the market for my kibble junkie cat! I never buy the same thing two bags in a row.
> Anyway, just my two cents.


thanks didnt see this!


----------



## RCTRIPLEFRESH5

CorgiPaws said:


> Okay, I'm totally jumping into this thread late, and i read the pages, well, skimmed them, so sorry if some of this has already been said.
> 
> Canidae is not an awful food. In fact, my GSD mix did great on it. I was definately satisfied with it. While I am not pleased they changed their formula without releasing a statement, honestly, with the uproar it caused, I don't see them making that mistake again. I never used canidae before the formula change, if that matters. If your dog does well on it, then GREAT. Keep it up.
> 
> If you're looking to go grain free, then Canidae Grain Free ALS is also a good food. It's cost effective, and IMO just as good as most other grain free foods on the market. (slightly off topic: when I brought my cat home from the SPCA< Felidae grain free was her saving grace, it was the only food I could get her to eat, and trust me, we tried EVERYTHING)
> 
> You can pick the labels apart as much as you want. Canidae ALS is still a good food at the end of the day, and so is CORE. I personally like CORE just a little better, but would have no problem using both in a rotation.
> 
> THAT BEING SAID:
> I think that no matter WHAT kind of diet, be it raw, homecooked, or kibble.. VARIETY IS KEY. The worst thing you could do is pick just one food and feed that one food for the entirety of the dog's life. I would greatly advise picking a number of foods, made by different companies, that use different protein sources and use them ALL in a rotation. The reason I say pick some from different companies, is if one has a recall (all kibbles do eventually) then you already have other foods you've used, your dog does well on, and can revert to. The different protein sources is more important though.
> 
> If you can't decide between core, canidae grain free, and a few other grain free foods, then by all means, use them all! Rotate them. Mix it up. Heck, I buy any and every grain free food on the market for my kibble junkie cat! I never buy the same thing two bags in a row.
> Anyway, just my two cents.


corgi what exactly did canidae change in their new formulas? did they make it a lot lower quality? besides the fact that they didnt earn consumers, what iso bad in comparison to the old formulas od canidae?

i just thought they put in lower quality grains into the ALS?

but doesnt that mean the grain free didnt change?but i see people complaing on the grain free as well.

only thing that bothers me is the fish preservatives, but shanes been fine so far.

i saw an old thread from you saying you didnt thinik grain free foods were worth it. do you think if my dogs doing fine on canidae i shouldnt make the switch? i saw you said grain frees a sack of potatoes and peas but csnidae grain free is 80 percent meats. acaina provincianal is 60 percent so maybe they are potatoes but i feel like canidae is pretty solid idk what percentage of meats is in their ALS formula but im assuming its less than in their grain frees.. but idk for sure.


----------



## CorgiPaws

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> corgi what exactly did canidae change in their new formulas? did they make it a lot lower quality? besides the fact that they didnt earn consumers, what iso bad in comparison to the old formulas od canidae?
> 
> i just thought they put in lower quality grains into the ALS?


Here's the OLD Canidae ALS Formula (first 15 ingredients)
Chicken Meal, Turkey Meal, Brown Rice, White Rice, Lamb Meal, Chicken Fat (preserved with Mixed Tocopherols), Herring Meal, Flax Seed, Sun Cured Alfalfa Meal, Sunflower Oil, Chicken, Lecithin, Monocalcium Phosphate, Potassium Chloride, Choline Chloride,


and the NEW ALS formula (first 15 ingredients)
Chicken meal, turkey meal, lamb meal, brown rice, white rice, rice bran, peas, potatoes, oatmeal, cracked pearled barley, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), millet, tomato pomace, natural flavor, flaxseed meal,


They aren't a whole world dirrferent, as you can see. I personally don't think the formula change did too much to the qualty of the food, but many people feel differently. 



RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> but doesnt that mean the grain free didnt change?but i see people complaing on the grain free as well.


I can't find anything about the grain free formula changing, so I have no idea. 




RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> i saw an old thread from you saying you didnt thinik grain free foods were worth it. do you think if my dogs doing fine on canidae i shouldnt make the switch? i saw you said grain frees a sack of potatoes and peas but csnidae grain free is 80 percent meats.


I did make those statements, and still feel them to be true. These statements are based off of the fact that dogs are carnivores, therefore any material other than animal parts are not species appropriate. In my mind, potato is no better than rice. 
Furthermore, grain free foods are very rich, and a lot of dogs just can't stomach them. Evo in particular seems to cause this problem quite a bit. That's the ONLY food on the market by GSD mix just didn't do well on at all. It is, however, a great food for those who can handle it.
On the other hand, some grains are common allergens, so if you have a dog prone to allergies (doesn't sound like you do) then in that case a grain free food might be superior. 
I still feel Orijen is the best food on the market (for those who can stomach it) not because it's grain free, but because it has a ton of meat in it. I could care less if rice replaced the potato. Make sense?
Grain free foods tend to be much more expensive. If the price difference were $5 a bag, maybe I'd think they were more worth the price, but it tends to be much more where I live. 


If he's doing fine on the Canidae, I wouldn't feel much pressure to change, it's not like you're feeding a terrible food. I would advise using a couple others in a rotation though.


----------



## RCTRIPLEFRESH5

CorgiPaws said:


> Here's the OLD Canidae ALS Formula (first 15 ingredients)
> Chicken Meal, Turkey Meal, Brown Rice, White Rice, Lamb Meal, Chicken Fat (preserved with Mixed Tocopherols), Herring Meal, Flax Seed, Sun Cured Alfalfa Meal, Sunflower Oil, Chicken, Lecithin, Monocalcium Phosphate, Potassium Chloride, Choline Chloride,
> 
> 
> and the NEW ALS formula (first 15 ingredients)
> Chicken meal, turkey meal, lamb meal, brown rice, white rice, rice bran, peas, potatoes, oatmeal, cracked pearled barley, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), millet, tomato pomace, natural flavor, flaxseed meal,
> 
> 
> They aren't a whole world dirrferent, as you can see. I personally don't think the formula change did too much to the qualty of the food, but many people feel differently.
> 
> 
> I can't find anything about the grain free formula changing, so I have no idea.
> 
> 
> 
> I did make those statements, and still feel them to be true. These statements are based off of the fact that dogs are carnivores, therefore any material other than animal parts are not species appropriate. In my mind, potato is no better than rice.
> Furthermore, grain free foods are very rich, and a lot of dogs just can't stomach them. Evo in particular seems to cause this problem quite a bit. That's the ONLY food on the market by GSD mix just didn't do well on at all. It is, however, a great food for those who can handle it.
> On the other hand, some grains are common allergens, so if you have a dog prone to allergies (doesn't sound like you do) then in that case a grain free food might be superior.
> I still feel Orijen is the best food on the market (for those who can stomach it) not because it's grain free, but because it has a ton of meat in it. I could care less if rice replaced the potato. Make sense?
> Grain free foods tend to be much more expensive. If the price difference were $5 a bag, maybe I'd think they were more worth the price, but it tends to be much more where I live.
> 
> 
> If he's doing fine on the Canidae, I wouldn't feel much pressure to change, it's not like you're feeding a terrible food. I would advise using a couple others in a rotation though.


(sorry caps)
IT SEEMS LIKE THE FORMULA CHANGE IS BETTER? MORE MEAT? WHATS YOUR OPINION? DO YOU THINK IT WAS FOR THE BETTER?

so i guess if you couldnt find much on the grain free formula change..then it didnt change?
does the site you got the old ALS formula also have the old grain free formulas for comparisons?

the price for a 30 pound grain free bag of canidae grain free is the same as a 35 pound bag of als that seems pretty reasonable imo. (42.79 with tax)

im still confused why you prefer orijen over canidae grain free. according to orijen bags, they use 70 percent of their proteins from meats, and 30 percents from other stuff.
canidae grain free uses 80 percent protein from meats, and 20 percent protein from other stuff!
also orijen has 40 percent protein ,whereas canidae has 34 so its more species appropriate than most, but it wont cause stomach problems im assuming lol.

idk if my dog is doing well. i mean hes a healthy 6 year old going on 7. beautiful dog smells like fresh laundry detergent(his breath could be better though) but i havent washed him in a few years im ashamed to say =\ and he smells amazing.

but he scratches a lot, and has gas alot(not that much but enough to notice) hes a golden retrievor though so i figured it was a common occurrence!

oh and i notice when he sits down his arms shake! i heard thats due to his metabolism from some guy on yahoo answersu.


----------



## CorgiPaws

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> (sorry caps)
> IT SEEMS LIKE THE FORMULA CHANGE IS BETTER? MORE MEAT? WHATS YOUR OPINION? DO YOU THINK IT WAS FOR THE BETTER?


It appears to have more meat, but also some fillers moved up the list, like tomato pomace. While tomato pomace is considered a filler, I think there are far worse fillers out there, so it doesn't concern me too much. I think it's for the better, but it's hard to say for sure, as I couldn't find the guaranteed analysis, just the ingredient list. So, while some things, like meat content, increased quality, things like fillers brought it down. That's why I say the formula change didn't change the quality much if at all, IMO.



RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> so i guess if you couldnt find much on the grain free formula change..then it didnt change?
> does the site you got the old ALS formula also have the old grain free formulas for comparisons?


I'm pretty confidnt in saying it didn't change, given the lack of information on it. I don't think there is an old gran free formula. 
It would make sense for ony the regular ALS formula to change, as that makes up a LARGE percentage of canidae's sales. It would make sense to adjust the ingredients for their bottom line. Where I used to work, Canidae ALS was probably 80% of our total canidae sales. (granted, this is at ONE distributor, so not acurate to apply that percentage to the whole company.)



RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> the price for a 30 pound grain free bag of canidae grain free is the same as a 35 pound bag of als that seems pretty reasonable imo. (42.79 with tax)


Wow, the same price? That's crazy, I've NEVER seen that at any store before. You're in luck then if grain free is the way you want to go. Most people have to dish out extra dollars. 



RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> im still confused why you prefer orijen over canidae grain free. according to orijen bags, they use 70 percent of their proteins from meats, and 30 percents from other stuff.
> canidae grain free uses 80 percent protein from meats, and 20 percent protein from other stuff!
> also orijen has 40 percent protein ,whereas canidae has 34 so its more species appropriate than most, but it wont cause stiach problems im assuming lol.


You gotta look at more than JUST ingredients and protein when determining quality. Carboydrates can be incredibly dangerous to canines. Most diseases thrive off of carbohydrates, and because dogs have virtually NO need for carbs in their diet whatsoever, feeding as little as possible is the best idea. NO dog food is low enough in carbs for me to call it "species appropriate" bu Orijen is one of the absolute lowest. This is why I feel Orijen is higher quality than canidae Grain Free, but I still think canidae is decent, and if a dog has no problems on it, then I see no problem with feeding it. 



RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> idk if my dog is doing well. i mean hes a healthy 6 year old going on 7. beautiful dog smells like fresh laundry detergent(his breath could be better though) but i havent washed him in a few years im ashamed to say =\ and he smells amazing.


Haha, don't be ashamed. I bathe my dogs a lot because they go to daycare, roll in the dirt, and just get plain old dirty, and because they sleep in our bed, a bath is a must. Plenty of people here never bathe their dogs, because they have no doggy odor. To each their own. :tongue:



RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> but he scratches a lot, and has gas alot(not that much but enough to notice) hes a golden retrievor though so i figured it was a common occurrence!


While very popular breeds, like goldens, due to overbreeding have many allergies and minor "issues" I think they can be easily controlled by proper nutrition. Boxers are one of the most overbred breeds, so I have experience there! 
I've had some customers complain that Canidae has caused gas in their dogs. Actually, I've heard this complaint of every kind of food on the market. I look at kibble as a total trial and error process. NOTHING will cut gas entirely, but if you're noticing a lot of it, it wouldn't hurt to try another food. (I can not stress a rotation enough!) 
Excessive scratching is definately a sign of an allergy. Not necessarily a FOOD allergy, but an allergy. It is one of the more mild ways an allergy will manifest itself. Is the scratching and itching effecting his quality of life? How does his skin look? does he itch at the same spot most of the time?



RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> oh and i notice when he sits down his arms shake! i heard thats due to his metabolism from some guy on yahoo answersu.


I've seen many dogs do this, never knew why!


----------



## RCTRIPLEFRESH5

CorgiPaws said:


> It appears to have more meat, but also some fillers moved up the list, like tomato pomace. While tomato pomace is considered a filler, I think there are far worse fillers out there, so it doesn't concern me too much. I think it's for the better, but it's hard to say for sure, as I couldn't find the guaranteed analysis, just the ingredient list. So, while some things, like meat content, increased quality, things like fillers brought it down. That's why I say the formula change didn't change the quality much if at all, IMO.
> 
> 
> I'm pretty confidnt in saying it didn't change, given the lack of information on it. I don't think there is an old gran free formula.
> It would make sense for ony the regular ALS formula to change, as that makes up a LARGE percentage of canidae's sales. It would make sense to adjust the ingredients for their bottom line. Where I used to work, Canidae ALS was probably 80% of our total canidae sales. (granted, this is at ONE distributor, so not acurate to apply that percentage to the whole company.)
> 
> 
> Wow, the same price? That's crazy, I've NEVER seen that at any store before. You're in luck then if grain free is the way you want to go. Most people have to dish out extra dollars.
> 
> 
> You gotta look at more than JUST ingredients and protein when determining quality. Carboydrates can be incredibly dangerous to canines. Most diseases thrive off of carbohydrates, and because dogs have virtually NO need for carbs in their diet whatsoever, feeding as little as possible is the best idea. NO dog food is low enough in carbs for me to call it "species appropriate" bu Orijen is one of the absolute lowest. This is why I feel Orijen is higher quality than canidae Grain Free, but I still think canidae is decent, and if a dog has no problems on it, then I see no problem with feeding it.
> 
> 
> Haha, don't be ashamed. I bathe my dogs a lot because they go to daycare, roll in the dirt, and just get plain old dirty, and because they sleep in our bed, a bath is a must. Plenty of people here never bathe their dogs, because they have no doggy odor. To each their own. :tongue:
> 
> 
> While very popular breeds, like goldens, due to overbreeding have many allergies and minor "issues" I think they can be easily controlled by proper nutrition. Boxers are one of the most overbred breeds, so I have experience there!
> I've had some customers complain that Canidae has caused gas in their dogs. Actually, I've heard this complaint of every kind of food on the market. I look at kibble as a total trial and error process. NOTHING will cut gas entirely, but if you're noticing a lot of it, it wouldn't hurt to try another food. (I can not stress a rotation enough!)
> Excessive scratching is definately a sign of an allergy. Not necessarily a FOOD allergy, but an allergy. It is one of the more mild ways an allergy will manifest itself. Is the scratching and itching effecting his quality of life? How does his skin look? does he itch at the same spot most of the time?
> 
> 
> I've seen many dogs do this, never knew why!


yeah ive heard that tomato pomace is one of the better fillers out there. core uses it too. while i prefer it not be included, its better than corn or euthnaised dogs....
it sounds like you feel that better or worse the quality change is minor so i will trust you on this!

i think the main thing about the formula change was that the food wasnt gluten free anymore. grain free still is gluten free so i think its safe to say that hasnt changed. i have seen people on the ''canidae complaint sites'' omplaining about the grain free versions. but they are probably just people who like tio argue...

well they are the same price for a 35 pound bag of ALS, and a 30 pound bag of GRAIN FREE last time i checked. so when you do the math, if i wanted a 35 pound bag of grain free it would be $7.12 cents more. it would be 49.90 roughly if my math is correct for the same size bag as grained als(42.79) both tax inclusive. but you are right thats worth it!

yeah the carbs are 6-7 percent higher in canidae, but idk if thats a huge difference when you factor in canidaes higher meat content and much lower prices =p.also orijen is very rich so most cant even tolerate it maybe.
i might rotate core i nthough, since my supplier said that there is a 10 dollar rebate going on, so it will come to around 46 dllars for a 26 pounds bag which is decent.


speaking of dog grooming, are you supposed to put mittens on your dogs in the snow?

yes i figured dog breed is a poor excuse for allergies. nutrition is a factor as well. i actually hope my dog doesnt lose weight from feeding grai nfree. i mean ALS has a few more calories than g rain free ALS.d

if oud like to judge my dogs coat, and appearance id appreciate it. heres three vids of shane.
YouTube - A BROKEN FRIENDSHIP... SHANE ATTACKING ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
YouTube - shane having fun
YouTube - my dog shane

OH AND I APPRECIATE you not trying to shove raw down my face, even though i know you feed raw to your dogs! and thanks for answering my questions. im surprised kirkland works better for your dogs than candiae does.i


----------



## malluver1005

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> speaking of dog grooming, are you supposed to put mittens on your dogs in the snow?


Goldens have a lot of hair under their paws so I wouldn't worry about it. Unless you guys are going to be out in the snow for a lot of hours, then I might look into it. :smile:


----------



## CorgiPaws

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> well they are the same price for a 35 pound bag of ALS, and a 30 pound bag of GRAIN FREE last time i checked. so when you do the math, if i wanted a 35 pound bag of grain free it would be $7.12 cents more. it would be 49.90 roughly if my math is correct for the same size bag as grained als(42.79) both tax inclusive. but you are right thats worth it!


Oh okay, I misread this before. I guess the grain free is still slightly more per pound then, which makes more sense to me. But it's still not much of a price difference. Lucky you! lol



RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> yeah the carbs are 6-7 percent higher in canidae, but idk if thats a huge difference when you factor in canidaes higher meat content and much lower prices =p.


It's not a HUGE difference, but still a difference. Should your dog ever develop anything like diabetes, then it would be more important to cut the carbs as low as possible. If he's doing fine, and you're comfortable with the food, then by all means, go for it. (I'm NOT saying it will give your dogs diabetes, just saying should he ever get anything like that, you'll want as few carbs as possible)



RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> speaking of dog grooming, are you supposed to put mittens on your dogs in the snow?


To be honest, my dogs don't spend enough time in the snow for me to have ever been concerned with this. I'd imagine that with a golden unless you're spending countless hours in the snow, you should be okay. 



RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> yes i figured dog breed is a poor excuse for allergies. nutrition is a factor as well.


Nahh, not a poor excuse. Breeding has a LOT to do with it. Luckily, for those effected, it can be managed by nutrition if the allergy is in fact food related. Environmental allergies are a bit harder to control, IMO. 



RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> . i actually hope my dog doesnt lose weight from feeding grai nfree. i mean ALS has a few more calories than g rain free ALS.d


I wouldn't worry too much, body condition is easy to read, you'll know if you need to feed more or less. 



RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> if oud like to judge my dogs coat, and appearance id appreciate it. heres three vids of shane.
> YouTube - A BROKEN FRIENDSHIP... SHANE ATTACKING ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> YouTube - shane having fun
> YouTube - my dog shane


He's beautiful, though it's hard to judge skin and coat health on video. I'd say he looks good, but you'll know better than anyone if his skin looks healthy (not dry and flakey or red and inflamed) and if his coat is silky (not rough and brittle)



RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> OH AND I APPRECIATE you not trying to shove raw down my face, even though i know you feed raw to your dogs! and thanks for answering my questions.


No problem. I realize that raw isn't the route everyone wants to go. I think it's FAR more productive to help people within their feeding method of choice (raw, homecooked, kibble, canned, etc.) than to force something on them they don't want. That just drives people away from the forum. Sure, I think raw is the best. But if you were interested in that, you'd be in that section, so why waste the time puching it?
I too started my DFC days feeding kibble. I totally get it. lol.



RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> . im surprised kirkland works better for your dogs than candiae does.i


I was suprised too!
I didn't want to switch, but my Corgi's vet bills were stacking up to an average of $700 a few months in a row, while wedding planning, and moving out of state... money was just way tight. I had no choice. 
I haven't noticed any difference in energy level, coat condition, teeth, etc. The ONLY difference I notice is poop. 
On canidae ALS, he was solid, but left streaks behind on the grass after pickup...
On Kirkland, his stools are solid, and leave nothing behind at pickup. The transition was gassey, but after the first week, he got over that. He hasn't ever been a gassey dog really though.


----------



## RCTRIPLEFRESH5

CorgiPaws said:


> Oh okay, I misread this before. I guess the grain free is still slightly more per pound then, which makes more sense to me. But it's still not much of a price difference. Lucky you! lol
> 
> 
> It's not a HUGE difference, but still a difference. Should your dog ever develop anything like diabetes, then it would be more important to cut the carbs as low as possible. If he's doing fine, and you're comfortable with the food, then by all means, go for it. (I'm NOT saying it will give your dogs diabetes, just saying should he ever get anything like that, you'll want as few carbs as possible)
> 
> 
> To be honest, my dogs don't spend enough time in the snow for me to have ever been concerned with this. I'd imagine that with a golden unless you're spending countless hours in the snow, you should be okay.
> 
> 
> Nahh, not a poor excuse. Breeding has a LOT to do with it. Luckily, for those effected, it can be managed by nutrition if the allergy is in fact food related. Environmental allergies are a bit harder to control, IMO.
> 
> 
> I wouldn't worry too much, body condition is easy to read, you'll know if you need to feed more or less.
> 
> 
> He's beautiful, though it's hard to judge skin and coat health on video. I'd say he looks good, but you'll know better than anyone if his skin looks healthy (not dry and flakey or red and inflamed) and if his coat is silky (not rough and brittle)
> 
> 
> No problem. I realize that raw isn't the route everyone wants to go. I think it's FAR more productive to help people within their feeding method of choice (raw, homecooked, kibble, canned, etc.) than to force something on them they don't want. That just drives people away from the forum. Sure, I think raw is the best. But if you were interested in that, you'd be in that section, so why waste the time puching it?
> I too started my DFC days feeding kibble. I totally get it. lol.
> 
> 
> I was suprised too!
> I didn't want to switch, but my Corgi's vet bills were stacking up to an average of $700 a few months in a row, while wedding planning, and moving out of state... money was just way tight. I had no choice.
> I haven't noticed any difference in energy level, coat condition, teeth, etc. The ONLY difference I notice is poop.
> On canidae ALS, he was solid, but left streaks behind on the grass after pickup...
> On Kirkland, his stools are solid, and leave nothing behind at pickup. The transition was gassey, but after the first week, he got over that. He hasn't ever been a gassey dog really though.


so do you feed raw or kirkland?

as for the carbs/orijen food, ill probably include orijen in my rotation, but i think the easiest transition food to grain free would be canidae grian free. its low in protein and is similar to what hes eating now. plus i like the formulalation and price. i also need a few more bags before i get a free one so...


----------



## CorgiPaws

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> so do you feed raw or kirkland?


I feed my Corgi and my Boxer prey model raw. 
Champ I have on a foster basis. He is on Kirkland. (not through a rescue, I just took him from a bad situation he was in, and worked on training [which took almost 2 years] and have been looking for a home worthy of his companionship for about 6 months now) I don't want to put Champ on raw, because I don't want it to scare away potential homes. I think there are MANY good homes out there who feed kibble, and I don't want a raw diet to give those people any reservations on considering him. If he does not rehome soon, though, we will have to put him on raw, because my Corgi has severe issues with carbohydrates, and I don't like having the dog food in the house at all because of that.


----------



## RCTRIPLEFRESH5

canidae salmon meal grain free actually has less carbs than orijen, and still has 80/20 ratip where as orijen has 70/30 tharts interesting they both have 40 percent proteins.

although i dont really view fish as a species appropriate food when other meats are available just my opinion, and i also know that canidae uses that fish preservative with an e in it. so id rather feed their regular grain free formula to limit exposure to it.

ive heard its not that bad for dogs to ingest.

also how come canidae grain free formulas have carbs listed but ALS formula doesnt? i wanted to compare!

also wtf? canidae ALS says it has more calories per kg but less calories per cup then the grain frees? how is that possibble? if something is more calorie dense...


----------



## RawFedDogs

Carbs% = 100 - (protein% + fat% + moisture%)


----------



## CorgiPaws

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> also how come canidae grain free formulas have carbs listed but ALS formula doesnt? i wanted to compare!


A lot of people going grain free do so for the safety of less carbs, so it makes more sense to list it on the grain free formula. RFD already gave you the formula to calculate carbs.


----------



## rico

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> also wtf? canidae ALS says it has more calories per kg but less calories per cup then the grain frees? how is that possibble? if something is more calorie dense...


Maybe because a cup of Canidae grain free is heavier than a cup of Canidae ALS.


----------



## RCTRIPLEFRESH5

wow..... my sister went out and bought a rottweiler puppy. my sister lvies with my mom, and me,my dad and shane(tyhe dog im posting about) live together. my mom hates dogs, so she wants us to take the rottie. the rottie is a female and shane is a male. im just worried when this 3 month rottie gets tov be bigger than shane is, she will be aggressive to my baby shane.

i know this a food forum, but i already had this thread open. what do you guys suggest? for us.


----------



## malluver1005

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> wow..... my sister went out and bought a rottweiler puppy. my sister lvies with my mom, and me,my dad and shane(tyhe dog im posting about) live together. my mom hates dogs, so she wants us to take the rottie. the rottie is a female and shane is a male. im just worried when this 3 month rottie gets tov be bigger than shane is, she will be aggressive to my baby shane.
> 
> i know this a food forum, but i already had this thread open. what do you guys suggest? for us.


Since the rottie is still a puppy, it shouldn't be a problem. Usually the dogs that might have problems are males with males and females with females. I would introduce them on neutral ground. Not your home. Make sure to socialize your rottie a lot with other pups as well. I would think about getting the female spayed around 6 months or so. Is Shane neutered? How is he with other dogs?


----------



## RawFedDogs

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> im just worried when this 3 month rottie gets tov be bigger than shane is, she will be aggressive to my baby shane.


I don't think there will be a problem. Shane and the pup will always be best buds. The pup will probably always look up to Shane regardless of size difference. The secret is to just leave them alone and don't try to intefere with their relationship. Don't try to make dominant and the other submissive. They can handle all that on their own.


----------



## RCTRIPLEFRESH5

RawFedDogs said:


> I don't think there will be a problem. Shane and the pup will always be best buds. The pup will probably always look up to Shane regardless of size difference. The secret is to just leave them alone and don't try to intefere with their relationship. Don't try to make dominant and the other submissive. They can handle all that on their own.


unfortunately shane doesnt like her. he was growling at her when they met(we introduced them on our driveway which while not neutral is more neutral than the house i suppose?)

the puppies in our basement in a crate shanes in my dads bed sleeping.

my sisters feeding her canine c aviar. it looks ok, not the best food but could be worse.

what pissed me off is that my sister said shes not eating, and the vet told her to add white rice to her food. i tried telling her grains are bad for dogs......


----------



## RawFedDogs

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> unfortunately shane doesnt like her. he was growling at her when they met(we introduced them on our driveway which while not neutral is more neutral than the house i suppose?)


That doesn't matter. What matters is that Shane was on leash. He couldn't do a normal dog greeting.



> the puppies in our basement in a crate shanes in my dads bed sleeping.


Is he in the basement alone or are there rooms down there and he will be sleeping in your room tonight?



> my sisters feeding her canine caviar. it looks ok, not the best food but could be worse.


Maybe I'm not understanding it correctly but as I understand it, your sister will not be living with either dog, right? If so, you can feed the pup what you want to.



> what pissed me off is that my sister said shes not eating, and the vet told her to add white rice to her food. i tried telling her grains are bad for dogs......


If your sister is living with you, thats a whole nuther problem I don't want to get involved in.

At this point, don't worry who is eating what. Just concentrate on the two dogs living together if that is what the case is going to be. If they live together they will get along. If I am misunderstanding this whole thing and they are not going to be living together, don't worry about whether they get along or not.


----------



## RCTRIPLEFRESH5

i dont know yet to be honest. my sister lives with my mom, and shane, amm,and my dad live together. my sister randomly decided to buy a rottie puppy, and my mom has no heart and compassion so she hates dogs. we agreed to take the dog in, but my sister weants to keep him...and my sister is positive my mom will let the dog back with them(trust me my mom doesnt want a small dog let alone a rottie, rotties can be tough to handle for skinny old women lol!)

id like to keep her, so thats why im worried about shane. my priority is shane. but if they can get a long it would be great. the puppy was to oagressive(too playful) with shane and shane didnt like it, so he growled at him. yues he was on a leash. are you saying it will be ok no leash?

canine caviar is fine for the rottie now. i gave him some pieces of core which he enjoyed, but i havent even transistioned shane to core yet. worse comes to worse, i will let the rottie eat shanes canidae and then i wil lswitch shane to grai nfree like i was planning. i should have a vid of the rottie up tomorrow if anyones curious shes a cute girl shane should consider himself lucky.p


----------



## RawFedDogs

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> the puppy was to oagressive(too playful) with shane and shane didnt like it, so he growled at him. yues he was on a leash. are you saying it will be ok no leash?


Yes, it's ok, no leash. Shane can take care of himself. An adult growling at a puppy is not all that unusual when the puppy is being too playful. I think he will be able to control her. If he growls, don't jump in and intefere. It will be ok.

I'm not getting involved in all the other stuff. Much too complicated for me. :smle:


----------



## harrkim120

I second RFD...so long as Shane isn't eating the puppy, don't step in. lol If anything, just try and wear out the puppy before introducing her to Shane again. Older dogs want nothing to do with out of control puppy games most of the time...at least not until they get to know each other better.


----------



## malluver1005

This is a bit off topic here, but I just have to ask: Is there a chance that a fully grown adult dog will attack a small puppy when meeting for the first time?


----------



## harrkim120

malluver1005 said:


> This is a bit off topic here, but I just have to ask: Is there a chance that a fully grown adult dog will attack a small puppy when meeting for the first time?


Oh, of course...it generally means that the adult wasn't very well socialized though. Older dogs don't tolerate younger dogs rudeness as much and will put them in their place if they get out of hand, but they don't really attack, more correct. However, an aggressive dog or an under socialized dog could do more. It doesn't happen very often though.


----------



## RCTRIPLEFRESH5

harrkim120 said:


> I second RFD...so long as Shane isn't eating the puppy, don't step in. lol If anything, just try and wear out the puppy before introducing her to Shane again. Older dogs want nothing to do with out of control puppy games most of the time...at least not until they get to know each other better.


akright ill have some treats on hand in case it gets ugly. he seemed hostile towards her on the leash so idk.. lol.

hurts my eyes to se shanes an older dog..they grow so fast haafhas.


----------



## harrkim120

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> akright ill have some treats on hand in case it gets ugly. he seemed hostile towards her on the leash so idk.. lol.
> 
> hurts my eyes to se shanes an older dog..they grow so fast haafhas.


I highly doubt it will get ugly...Shane will correct the dog by growling and snapping, just don't make a big deal out of it. You guys trying to interfere will just make it worse.


----------



## RCTRIPLEFRESH5

YouTube - rctriplefresh5's Channel


----------



## RawFedDogs

Back in the days when I was a professional trainer, I used to get calls almost weekly from people frightened by their "aggressive" puppy. They wanted to hire me to train the aggressiveness out of them. First let me say that it is very very very rare for a 3 month old puppy to be aggressive. It is almost unheard of. It just doesn't happen.

When I would get to their house to see their "aggressive" puppy in person, I would ALWAYS find a normal energetic puppy performing normal puppy play. Puppies have no desire to kill anything. They have no desire to hurt anything. Just let them be puppies and they will be fine. You don't want to train happyness and playfulness out of a puppy.

Shane is not nearly as fragile as you seem to think he is. He can take care of himself. Stop worrying so much. Take the puppy out of the basement. The sooner he bacomes a family member the sooner everyone can just calm down. This is not a big deal. Don't try to make it into one. Let the two dogs play and be buddies. The puppy will never become socialized while he is locked away down in the basement and kept seperated from Shane.


----------



## RCTRIPLEFRESH5

RawFedDogs said:


> Carbs% = 100 - (protein% + fat% + moisture%)


according to canidaes site the max nfe(carbs is 26 percent) but according to your formula i got 38. are they lying>>>>


----------



## RawFedDogs

If they aren't, they need to explain what the other 12% is. They will say that 4% or 5% is fiber but fiber is also carbs. I don't know how they justify the other. Of course they have all of the "not less than" and "not more than" stuff to make up the other but that means there is more protein, fat, or moisture than they claim on the bag.


----------



## RCTRIPLEFRESH5

RawFedDogs said:


> If they aren't, they need to explain what the other 12% is. They will say that 4% or 5% is fiber but fiber is also carbs. I don't know how they justify the other. Of course they have all of the "not less than" and "not more than" stuff to make up the other but that means there is more protein, fat, or moisture than they claim on the bag.


yeah it says MAX of 26 percent so thats why i find it weird i get 38 lol. is NFE the same as pure carbs? why not call it carbs? well its still less than 52 carbs in the canidae i feed now, and maybe i will rotate orijen later on.

i know you said evo didnt match your calculations either. i just wish regional red was available in more places id love to feed that regardless of price;


----------



## Ania's Mommy

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> i just wish regional red was available in more places id love to feed that regardless of price;


Orijen Regional Red Dog Food - (Grain Free) - Luke's All Natural Pet Food

http://www.only4pets.com/Dog-Food/Orijen-33/Orijen-Regional-Red-29.7-Lb.html

http://www.pawnaturals.com/Orijen_Regional_Red_Dog_Food_p/ori8605.htm

:wink::wink::wink:

Richelle


----------



## RCTRIPLEFRESH5

Ania's Mommy said:


> Orijen Regional Red Dog Food - (Grain Free) - Luke's All Natural Pet Food
> 
> Orijen Regional Red ONLY4PETS
> 
> Orijen Regional Red Dog Food
> 
> :wink::wink::wink:
> 
> Richelle


thanks for the links!!!

although i met ion feed stores here that sell orijen i wish they carried it. i have no problem spending 75 dollars on a months worth of food, but i will not pay 15 for shipping lol!

although i kind of bite my toungue 75 is a lot more thna what we pay now. is oprijen 6 fish 75 for 29 pounds also? i msure thats fine too.


----------



## wags

petfooddirect.com has free shipping this weekend only. use the code

FREESHIP50


----------



## kevin bradley

Wags,

how does that free shipping code work?...IE-can I go out and order 5 bags and get free shipping?

I went out and messed with the code and it appeared they would only ship one bag for free...I added 2 more and they added $9.99 shipping(still a very good deal).

PLUS, EVO is only $52/bag. Very nice deal this weekend for people who want to get going on a very very nice food.


----------



## wags

I got that same thing the $9.99 added because I actually ordered 2 evo bags weight management and the red meat one and then I ordered BG tripe wet food. So what I did was I ordered the stuff separate. I put one of the evo bags with the BG Tripe and ordered that got free shipping and it was on sale (YEAH) also then I just ordered the other bag of EVo and used the code again. So order them separate if your over the 50 lbs. Its a 50 lb. limit. I was haha just there again looking So oyu can use the code over and over from what I can tell I used it twice! 
So no you cant order five bags at once, unless its up to 50 lbs. Meaning you can order them but separately! So just do it seperate! Gee I'm going back hahahaha!:wink: HAPPY SHOPPING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## kevin bradley

yeah, heckuva deal. EVO for $52/free shipping. 

Shhhhhhh Wags, don't tell anyone


----------



## wags

kevin bradley said:


> yeah, heckuva deal. EVO for $52/free shipping.
> 
> Shhhhhhh Wags, don't tell anyone


Ha I am LOL over here as after I read your post you made me think I better go get two more bags so now I have 4 bags and 12 cans coming hahahaha! Oh well that is a super deal! Gee hope my hubby thinks like I do!!!!!!!!!!!!:biggrin:


----------



## kevin bradley

yep, I just ordered a bag...and after I sleep on it tonight, I think I'll have a couple more coming. 

What do you know about their auto ship? After I checked out, they asked me about auto ship and they offer you 15% which brings EVO to about $44/bag. I'm guessing they would tack shipping on that also? 

I like the idea of EVO arriving at my house once/month. Would save me some time and the price is very fair. I just need to understand what they would charge for shipping.


----------



## wags

kevin bradley said:


> yep, I just ordered a bag...and after I sleep on it tonight, I think I'll have a couple more coming.
> 
> What do you know about their auto ship? After I checked out, they asked me about auto ship and they offer you 15% which brings EVO to about $44/bag. I'm guessing they would tack shipping on that also?
> 
> I like the idea of EVO arriving at my house once/month. Would save me some time and the price is very fair. I just need to understand what they would charge for shipping.


I like to vary my foods so for me having it shipped monthly would not work and yes I do believe unless they have the free shipping deal you would get charged shipping then! Why don't you email them and ask what the shipping policy is then if you have it monthly! The 15% is a great discount but then if they tack 10 bucks on for shipping I don't know if it would be worth it. But I will keep sharing if I get more free shipping things haha! I also do change my brands though so I like to go for all the top sellers! this is a great deal though! Gee I'm gonna have to get an area to store this now hahahahaha! But with my 4 dogs I never waste it haha! As for the every month I just don't want to do that! But if it works for you then I would it is 15% but I would ask first don't do it until you find out the total of shipping and all many not be a good plan then! Good Luck! :wink:


----------



## wags

I just read this~

What products are eligible for the Autoship Pet Food Plan?

ALL products are eligible for the Autoship Pet Food Plan. However, free shipping, prescription medications and veterinary diet products while eligible for the Auto Ship Plan, but are not eligible for the 15% discount.

So you dont get any other promotions with the 15%!


----------



## RCTRIPLEFRESH5

i dont see regional red.


----------



## PUNKem733

They are not carrying it at this time. It's really hard to find regional red. Champion is overwhelmed by the popularity of their foods, esp RR, that many places are out of stock.


----------



## Unosmom

You can order it from lukesnaturals and use their $5 off coupon which comes to $84 total (depends where you live)
Luke's All Natural Pet Food

Coupon code : Save5


----------



## RCTRIPLEFRESH5

Unosmom said:


> You can order it from lukesnaturals and use their $5 off coupon which comes to $84 total (depends where you live)
> Luke's All Natural Pet Food
> 
> Coupon code : Save5


meh ill just stick to the oriken adult. prob just as good. but im not ready for orijen in my rotation yet, next is canidae grain free.

i have a qestion. do high protein grain free foods decrease gas? or do they increase gas?
shanes on canidae ALSS, and has been for years, but he can get gassy sometimes. will switching to the higher protein non grained canidae be a bad idea? i know you cant eliminate gas, but ou can reduce or increase i.


----------



## CorgiPaws

RCTRIPLEFRESH5 said:


> i have a qestion. do high protein grain free foods decrease gas? or do they increase gas?
> shanes on canidae ALSS, and has been for years, but he can get gassy sometimes. will switching to the higher protein non grained canidae be a bad idea? i know you cant eliminate gas, but ou can reduce or increase i.


Each dog will react differently. Generally during the transition you will see an increase in gas but over time, it may or may not decrease. My GSD on Wellness was seriously the gassiest dog ever. My Corgi didn't have gas at all on it. 
So in short, yes, gas can increase or decrease on different foods, but you won't know the results until you try.


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## PUNKem733

Yeah my little guy can get gassy sometimes, and clear out a room! I just live with it. I WILL not be switching to a lower grade food from some gas.


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5

so in general switching to a higher protein grain free food causes more gas? would you say that is true in general?
and doesn't more gas mean its less digested for them?


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## lilbabyvenus

When we got our second chi, he was on Chicken Soup for the Puppy Lovers Soup, and had the worst gas I had ever smelt (worse than my fiance's lol). We transitioned him to Wellness Puppy and his gas diminished greatly. Now he's on Core, and never has gas unless he gets too many treats from his daddy haha! Anyway.. I know it varies from dog to dog, but just sharing my experience, Jacks' gas just about went away with a higher quality food.


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5

oh ok, thanks for sharing! yeah im not sure if chicken soup has lower protein than wellness puppy, but i do know that wellness core and canidae grain free are very similar foods. so it is nice to see it relieved your pups symptoms!


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