# Kitty eating foster dog!



## ruckusluvr (Oct 28, 2009)

My new foster dog is determined to eat my cat 

he was cat tested before coming to me. they said that he does like to stare at the cats, but did not feel he was a threat. (hes 10yrs old, mostly deaf and blind, moves slow)
I agreed to foster him. Well we transported him 300 miles for me to foster. I get him home, and three days later he has ATTACKED my cat twice. on the floor, shaking the poor guy.

I am devastated because all of this work getting him to me and it looks like this is not a suitable foster home for him. he is sooo loving, sweet, and such a great dog. but I cannot risk my cat!

I have been keeping my foster dog gated in my bedroom, and the poor guy wants back out here with them family 
I dont feel like it is fair to him, or my cat. But I hate the fact that all of this hard work and planning to get him to me is not working out.

He is constantly staring at the cat, or looking for the cat!


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## spookychick13 (Jan 26, 2010)

Oh no, what a nightmare!! 

I'm sorry for you (and the cat!)

At least you tried, right?


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## JayJayisme (Aug 2, 2009)

If the dog wasn't cat aggressive in the first environment, something changed that has nothing to do with the way the dog "feels" about cats in general. It's probably a pack order thing, which is different in your house than it was wherever you "tested" him.

You need to take ownership of the cat, and everything else in your household, and the dog needs to understand that clearly. Seems like the dog is looking to assume the leadership position from the cat, which is the position the human should have in the hierarchy. Your pack order is likely backwards. 

You need to think like a pack animal and not blame the dog. It's his nature and I'm sure between his handicaps and his new environment he's confused to the point where he is looking to "restore order" the best way he knows how. Work with him, don't give up. Never give up on a dog if you can avoid it.


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## ruckusluvr (Oct 28, 2009)

sorry Jay, I dont believe much of that pack stuff.

Thanks though! I do agree about him being confused, and something had to change to make him cat aggressive in his new environment.


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## g00dgirl (Nov 18, 2009)

Sorry it's not working out right now 
Maybe they didn't have him with a cat for an extended period, just showed him one? Maybe the other cat was more mellow or didn't run away or act scared, if yours does this.


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

I don't quite get how your cat can't get away from a dog. I have bull terriers and they are small prey driven
. My female was raised with my cats and the last two that I rescued just wanted to eat my older cat who is 14, she can always get away from them, she jumps up on the high bar stools or table and after awhile the dogs get used to her. They really don't bother my male cat as he thinks he's a dog. I don't clip my older cats nails as often so she has them to use for self defense, and the newest one "Mackenzie's" nose is proof of it.
Is your cat really old?


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

I was wondering the same thing. In my house it's the cat's responsibility to avoid the dogs. Cats can easily and quickly get to places the dogs can't reach. Even the Great Danes I have. 

They know how to read the dogs. They can tell when its ok to go up and touch noses with a dog or lay beside them or they can tell when a dog is in an "I'm gonna kill me a cat" mode. Sometimes my dogs attack cats, sometimes my cats attack dogs. It's real funny to watch a cat sneak up behind a Great Dane walking through a room, swipe his hind leg with his claws then run under the couch where the dog can't get him. :biggrin: I too have had dogs with bloody noses. :smile:


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## ruckusluvr (Oct 28, 2009)

thanks for the advice guys. my cat is not old. he is actually stupid... i guess.
he will sort of tease the dogs. my foster dog was in kill the cat mode, and my cat came right up to him and got in his face.

so i know its not all the new foster dogs fault. i just have never dealt with anything quite like this before. in the past if a foster stalked the cat, my cat stayed up high and everything was fine. I have no idea why my cat is not behaving this way around my new foster.

my foster has arthritis, he is mostly deaf AND blind. I know the cat can get away...
but its almost like he was teasing my new foster dog by coming up to him.


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## ruckusluvr (Oct 28, 2009)

also, i forgot to mention. If my new foster dog DOES go after my cat... my normally cat friendly forever dogs will go after it too!

4 dogs VS 1 cat!

I am sure we can make this work some how. i just need to get more educated in how to deal with a dog that does not like cats. and a cat that will tease that dog!


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## xxshaelxx (Mar 8, 2010)

I would assume that the cat most likely senses the dog's weaknesses and looks to pick on him for them. I would get a squirt bottle and squirt the cat anytime he goes near the dog, because at least, even if the dog is in "kill cat mode," then you squirt the cat before he can get near the dog's face, then the cat will run away, out of harm's reach.

As for the three other dogs going after the cat, it's a pack thing. If one dog gets riled up, all of them will. I've known people with cat loving dogs that have turned on the cat when one un-cat-friendly dog suddenly goes after the cat.​


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

Well all my dogs know the word "Leave It" and if I catch the new one or even Leo going towards my old kitty I say Leave it, sometimes it will take 2 times in a louder voice for them to get it through their thick noses that I mean it, but they get it, and leave her alone. It will get better, you just have to be consistent with whatever training method your going to use. Good Luck.


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## luvMyBRT (Mar 8, 2010)

Back in college I rescued a starving female Rottweiler that was chained to a tree next door to where I lived. Right away I knew I needed to help her, so I went over and asked her current owners if I could have her. They agreed that I could have her, but told me that she had once killed a stray cat (they knew I had cats). I took that into concideration, but took her anyways.

Her entire life was outside chained to a tree. Coming to live with me I had to house train her and it was her first time living with a pack of animals and cats.

The female Rottie was coming into my pack and I set the rules. My pack consisted of my male Rottweiler, female GSH Pointer, 2 foster puppies that I was raising, and two cats. From the moment "Annie" (that's what I named her) came into my home she knew those cats were part of the pack. I introduced them with care and the first time she showed a little too much intrest she would get a correction of "leave it". It only took a couple times. From the first day she did wonderful with my cats and the tiny puppies, but only because I set the rules. It got to where the cats could walk on her, lay on her...they even played together. If the cats had had too much, they would just jump up and get away from the dogs. 

Everything went so well because I was consistent with my rules and let her know that I didn't agree with any "bad" behavior. She had a lot of new experiences and did very well with all of it. I was loving, but firm and consistent. She needed a role model (so to speak) to show her what was good behavior and what was bad behavior....and that was me. 

I hope that things calm down for you. Good luck. :smile:


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## JayJayisme (Aug 2, 2009)

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Now THAT'S what I'm talking about!​
Whether or not you believe in pack leadership as a training tool, dogs are pack animals. You can use this knowledge to establish order in your pack, or use some other established training method to solve the problem, or stick your head in the sand. But they are still pack animals.

Great job and great post saraj2878!


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## ruckusluvr (Oct 28, 2009)

how do you teach a deaf dog a leave it command?

the fact that he is deaf is what is making this so hard. my dogs know leave it.

if my foster dog is stalking the cat i have been squirting him with water. i have done this every time for three days now. he just does not seem to understand why he is getting a squirt.

i know about teaching deaf dogs hand signals, but he is mostly blind too. not too blind to see the cat though.


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## luvMyBRT (Mar 8, 2010)

Even though he is deaf he can still read your body language and your energy. 

In all honesty, I don't have to say anything to my GSH Pointer to get her to back up, leave it, go lay down, etc. My body language and energy do the "talking". However, it is helpful that she can hear as she has learned what certain words mean for her to do.

When I introduced Annie to my two cats I got all three animals and went and sat down on the couch. My cats were totally relaxed since they lived with dogs, which made it easier I am sure. I made sure I was totally relaxed too. I had a pinch collar on Annie (because this is what I felt gave me the most control over her, should I need it. After this first meeting she didn't need it anymore). I sat down with the cats in my lap and with Annie on the floor next to me. I let Annie calmly sniff the cats and when she would get too close or too pushy or too excited I would give a quick correction with the pinch collar and said "leave it" to snap her out of the excitement (with a deaf dog you don't need to say anything). This happened a few times, but she was a quick learner. After about 20 minutes she completly calmed down, relaxed, and laid down. There were a few times after this that I did have to "remind" her that she was to respect the cats. She did want to chase them if they ran, but I would block her from chasing with my body, using my body language, as if to say "I don't think so...". She would calm down, relax, and I would reward her. For about a week I watched her closely. In all honesty, she did great from day one. She was so ready to be a well behaved follower in my pack. All she wanted (and desperately needed)was someone to show her the right thing to do.

This is the way that worked best for me and Annie. Everyone is different and every dog is different. I hope you can find what works best for you. :smile:


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## ruckusluvr (Oct 28, 2009)

thank you for your help 

Things are calming down. the cat isnt hiding from the dog anymore, but isnt teasing him. the fact that the cat is not teasing him is helping a whole lot!


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

saraj2878 said:


> I let Annie calmly sniff the cats and when she would get too close or too pushy or too excited I would give a quick correction with the pinch collar and said "leave it" to snap her out of the excitement (with a deaf dog you don't need to say anything). This happened a few times, but she was a quick learner.


This is a big problem I have with the pinch collar. It obviously didn't happen to you but often the dog could associate the pain of the pinch collar with the cat instead of you. If this had happened, it would have made it almost impossible to get the dog to be friends with the cat ever.



> She did want to chase them if they ran, but I would block her from chasing with my body, using my body language, as if to say "I don't think so...". She would calm down, relax, and I would reward her.


Prey drive is normal and natural for a carnivore. It's how they would make their living if not for human intervention. My Great Danes chase the cats daily. It's the cats responsibility to find a safe place quickly and they do it. The few times that a dog got lucky and got a cat cornered with no escape route, they never hurt the cat. Usually they just nudged their nose into the cat pretty roughly and let him go. The chase is the exciting part to them, not actually catching them.

I think the cats understand this as they chase wild critters outside all the time. They catch, kill, and eat them quite often. 

Don't take this post as fussing at you. I admire your training ability eventhough it is somewhat different than mine. Just wanted to throw in my 2 cents. :smile:







For about a week I watched her closely. In all honesty, she did great from day one. She was so ready to be a well behaved follower in my pack. All she wanted (and desperately needed)was someone to show her the right thing to do.

This is the way that worked best for me and Annie. Everyone is different and every dog is different. I hope you can find what works best for you. :smile:[/QUOTE]


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## luvMyBRT (Mar 8, 2010)

RawFedDogs said:


> This is a big problem I have with the pinch collar. It obviously didn't happen to you but often the dog could associate the pain of the pinch collar with the cat instead of you. If this had happened, it would have made it almost impossible to get the dog to be friends with the cat ever.
> 
> Prey drive is normal and natural for a carnivore. It's how they would make their living if not for human intervention. My Great Danes chase the cats daily. It's the cats responsibility to find a safe place quickly and they do it. The few times that a dog got lucky and got a cat cornered with no escape route, they never hurt the cat. Usually they just nudged their nose into the cat pretty roughly and let him go. The chase is the exciting part to them, not actually catching them.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your post. :smile: I realize that everyone has a different way of doing things. And different ways work better for different people/dogs. 

I had to be on top of things when introducing Annie to my cats knowing that she had chased down and killed a cat before. I realize that the chase is exciting for them, but Annie caught the cat and actually killed it.

As far as the pinch collar, IMO, if used correctly can be affective. It is my understanding that it is supposed to immitate the "bite" that the animal would receive if being corrected by the alpha member of their pack. With me holding the collar it is connected to me and my calm energy. More importantly than the pinch collar, IMO, is the body language and the energy that your are putting out. If I went into the situation nervous or angry the meeting probably wouldn't have gone well. Annie would have felt this insecure energy from me and the tension and would have reacted negatively to it. I went into this situation calm and with the mind set that things were going to go great because I was there to set the tone, be in control and to show Annie the correct and acceptable way to act around cats/my pack. I didn't even have to correct her more than once or twice using the pinch collar before she had caught on.

However, if this negative association had occured, I would have changed my approach and used a different tool or method immediatly.

Thanks for your 2 cents! :biggrin: I think it's great, as there is not one right way of accomplishing a goal! :biggrin:


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

saraj2878 said:


> It is my understanding that it is supposed to immitate the "bite" that the animal would receive if being corrected by the alpha member of their pack.


If you want to simulate a bite on the neck, I suggest you actually bite on the neck. The dog knows the difference. He's not stupid. :smile:



> With me holding the collar it is connected to me and my calm energy. More importantly than the pinch collar, IMO, is the body language and the energy that your are putting out. If I went into the situation nervous or angry the meeting probably wouldn't have gone well. Annie would have felt this insecure energy from me and the tension and would have reacted negatively to it.


I completely agree. :smile:



> However, if this negative association had occured, I would have changed my approach and used a different tool or method immediatly.


Once it occurs, its too late. It's happened. It's like the dog can't unbite the cat.



> I think it's great, as there is not one right way of accomplishing a goal! :biggrin:


Oh, no ... there actually is only one right way. Honest.


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## luvMyBRT (Mar 8, 2010)

Then, please, do tell the one and only way to correctly handle the situation??


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

Positive reinforcement.


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## luvMyBRT (Mar 8, 2010)

RawFedDogs said:


> Positive reinforcement.


LOL. No kidding. :smile: Positive reinforcement is a must when training. When I house broke her I used positive reinforcement. When I kennel trained her I used positive reinforcement. When I taught her to sit, stay, lay down, heel, come, I used positive reinforcement. I couldn't agree with you more.

Bringing a large, powerful, prey driven, fully mature, cat killing Rottweiler into my house for the first time had nothing to do with training. It had everything to do with me setting the ground rules and bounderies for living within my pack. It had everything to do with me establishing myself as the one in control, the alpha, the one who keeps peace within the pack. I came into the situation looking at it with a dogs mentality. The pack mentality. From a dog's point of view.

In the wild wolves live in packs. Coyotes live in packs. Wild dogs live in packs. Within each sucessful pack there is an alpha. It is the alpha's job to keep order and peace within the pack. It's the alpha's job to keep its pack safe. If there is no alpha then there is chaos within the pack until a new alpha is established.

It is my job to keep my pack safe and at peace. It is my job to present myself as the calm leader with a confident energy. If I had let Annie come into my home and had not established myself as the one in control it could have resulted in dog fights and 2 dead cats. If I had just let her chase my cats, hoping the cats would find a way to safety, there would have probably been 2 dead cats. I established with Annie from the moment she set foot into my house that I was going to keep everything peaceful and keep everyone safe. I would be in charge of keeping things in order and under control. This way she could concentrate on being a happy, well cared for dog who didn't have to worry about a thing for the first time in her life. She could become a balanced dog. She could, for the first time, feel that there was someone taking the alpha role and she wouldn't have to.

In my experience most dogs have no problem letting you be the leader if you gain their respect and trust the right way. NOT by being aggressive, mean or angry. By being a calm energy. Being assertive in a confident way. Following through with consistant discipline. The way an alpha wolf would be in the wild. Do the follower wolves seem or act unhappy? No way! I would be happy to follow a strong confident leader whom I trust and respect too! That would be the life!

As far as the pinch collar goes....I guess if I had to actually bite her I guess I could...LOL.  Isn't that what a mama wolf would do to a young or adolecent pup who wasn't following the rules? Isn't that what the apha male wolf would do to any other pack member who was getting out of line? And I never said that dogs were stupid. :wink:

Now that being said....these are just my opinions and views on the topic. Some will agree and some will disagree. That's okay. Nothin' wrong with a friendly debate. :biggrin:


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

saraj2878 said:


> LOL. No kidding. :smile: Positive reinforcement is a must when training. When I house broke her I used positive reinforcement. When I kennel trained her I used positive reinforcement. When I taught her to sit, stay, lay down, heel, come, I used positive reinforcement. I couldn't agree with you more.


Great. I thought you might feel this way after reading some of your posts. Thats why the use of the pinch collar suprised me.



> Bringing a large, powerful, prey driven, fully mature, cat killing Rottweiler into my house for the first time had nothing to do with training. It had everything to do with me setting the ground rules and bounderies for living within my pack. It had everything to do with me establishing myself as the one in control, the alpha, the one who keeps peace within the pack. I came into the situation looking at it with a dogs mentality. The pack mentality. From a dog's point of view.


Thats great if you still believe in the old outdated dominance theory. It has been determined through extensive research that the wolf pack in the wild is not like once thought. Yes, there is a alpha male & female but they are not the biggest meanest strongest SOBs in the pack. A wolf pack in the wild is made up of two wolves (the alpha pair) and their offspring. Mom and Dad don't lead by intimidation or coersion rather they are mentors through life to the kids. They are in charge because they are the oldest and have the most experience and knowledge. They know how to find prey and how to kill it. The others willingly follow because they know this and they are learning daily. 

Dad "rolling" his offspring has never been observed in the wild. Instead what you see is the offspring approaching dad and rolling himself to show loyalty to dad. There is no need for intimidation in the actual wild wolf pack just as (I assume) there is no need for intimidation in your human family both now and when you were growing up.

The other old dominance theory came about by studying wolves in captivity where they were not a natural pack, rather a bunch of unrelated wolves thrown together in a VERY stressful situation. They became a uncontrolled mob and someone eventually emerges as leader. 



> It is my job to keep my pack safe and at peace. It is my job to present myself as the calm leader with a confident energy.


Yes, but that can be done just as effectively without using a pinch collar or any form of intimidation. I have introduced new dogs to my pack and I have found that the new dog is always willing to learn very quickly who is the leader and to follow this leader very easily without objecting. I have never had a dog enter my house expecting to be the alpha. They always realize upon setting foot into the house that I am the leader and mentor. I will teach him from the very beginning how to maintain order in our pack.

In your case, I would have put the cats somewhere safe when I brought him into the house. I would have introduced him to the cats in a calm nonthreatening manner. Never would I have tried to initmidate him with a pinch collar. Yes, you do this through body language and calm confidence but not with assertiveness.



> If I had let Annie come into my home and had not established myself as the one in control it could have resulted in dog fights and 2 dead cats. If I had just let her chase my cats, hoping the cats would find a way to safety, there would have probably been 2 dead cats.


If you feel like that then your confidence was false and you knew it was false. You did not have the confidence to know you could control the situation or you would not have felt the need for the pinch collar. You used the pinch collar the way most people do, as a crutch. Yes, you establish yourself as the one in control but you can do it without intimidation. You do it through attidude. The dog will instantly know who is in charge by who is acting like they are in charge. No need for anything else.



> She could become a balanced dog. She could, for the first time, feel that there was someone taking the alpha role and she wouldn't have to.
> 
> In my experience most dogs have no problem letting you be the leader if you gain their respect and trust the right way. NOT by being aggressive, mean or angry. By being a calm energy. Being assertive in a confident way.  Following through with consistant discipline. The way an alpha wolf would be in the wild. Do the follower wolves seem or act unhappy? No way! I would be happy to follow a strong confident leader whom I trust and respect too! That would be the life!


Many of the words you use in this section as well as other times in this discussion tell me you may watch too much Discovery Channel and put too much trust in what you think you are seeing there. You are not seeing what you think you are seeing and much of the philosophy is outdated and self admittedly learned from Grandpa. All the theory expoused on that show are not wrong. Most is correct but the implimentation often unnesesarily uses aggression to accomplish it's goals.



> As far as the pinch collar goes....I guess if I had to actually bite her I guess I could...LOL.  Isn't that what a mama wolf would do to a young or adolecent pup who wasn't following the rules?


Yes, for a young pup but not for a more mature wolf. It isn't so much disciplining, rather teaching. Wolves/dogs don't have the ability to speak so they must teach by actions. Just think how much difficulty we would have in teaching our offspring if we couldn't speak. Wolves do an amazingly good job in raising their pups without using force. Mama biting on the neck isn't a painful thing like some people tend to think. Rather it is very light and not meant as punishment, rather a method to show by modeling the correct behavior.



> Isn't that what the apha male wolf would do to any other pack member who was getting out of line?


Nope



> Now that being said....these are just my opinions and views on the topic. Some will agree and some will disagree. That's okay. Nothin' wrong with a friendly debate. :biggrin:


Same here but I think my opinions are more educated. :smile: I'm glad we can discuss this in a civil manner without getting all excited.


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## luvMyBRT (Mar 8, 2010)

Outdated dominance therory? I'm going to have to disagree with you there. :smile: When did the word "dominance" become a 4 letter word? All it is is calmly asserting yourself as the one in control of a pack of dogs. And who said anything about intimidation? I know I sure didn't.

Even though it has supposedly been determined through research that the wolf pack is not exactly like we initally thought, it doesn't change the fact that there are the more dominante and alpha roles who are in charge. Because they aren't the biggest, strongest SOB's of the group means nothing. They are alpha because they have the assertive energy and know how and the others of the pack recognize that and respect that.

It is fact that dogs are social pack animals. They have a pack mentality. It can't be avoided. In a pack there are leaders and followers. Plain and simple. I choose to assert myself as a leader and my dogs fall into the follower role. Easy as that. I don't use intimidation. I don't use a mean and angry assertiveness. I use a calm and confident assertiveness. One with kindness and the intention of doing what is right and familiar to a dogs way of thinking. 

If I had been bringing a puppy or a familiar adult dog into my house I would not have felt the need for a pinch collar and wouldn't have used one. I don't feel the need to use one on my current dog and won't be using one with our new puppy.

The fact of the matter is that I was bringing a working type breed of dog with an intense prey drive into my house. A very strong dominante type breed that I knew nothing about. I knew nothing about her history. All I knew was that she had been abused and misstreated her entire life. All I knew was that she had chased down a cat and then followed through and killed it. She just didn't nudge it and then walk away. She came to my house with the mentality of cat = killing. She had never been taught to act any differently around a cat.

All the prong collar did was give me more control over her if I needed it. Working with a mature Rottweiler is different than working with a young Golden Retriever. Obviously a prong probably won't have been needed with a golden, but a misstreated aggressive prey driven Rottweiler, more likely. The prong collar wasn't a cruch and wasn't used as one. It wasn't used with the intention of crulty, intimidation and angry domination. And, amazingly enough, the dog didn't react negatively to it. Suprizing! :biggrin: Maybe it's because my energy behind it was calm and ment to help her. It was a tool used in teaching her. 

I did put the cats in a safe place when first bringing her into the house. I did introduce them in a calm nonthreatening manner. What is body language and a calm confidence without assertiveness? There is nothing wrong with assertivness when used in the correct way. It's like saying "I really want you to get along...but....I don't really mean it. I won't follow through if there are problems because I think being assertive and taking control of the situation is mean."

Just because I am taking on the alpha role in my pack doesn't mean that I am doing so in a negative or disrespectful way. IMO, by doing so I am giving my dogs the utmost respect and love (so to speak). I am helping them to play and socalize with other dogs in a healthy way. I am creating healthy behaviors and making it easy for the dog to respond positively to training. I am relating to the dog in a way that he can understand and appreciate. :smile:


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

saraj2878 said:


> Outdated dominance therory? I'm going to have to disagree with you there. :smile: When did the word "dominance" become a 4 letter word? All it is is calmly asserting yourself as the one in control of a pack of dogs. And who said anything about intimidation? I know I sure didn't.


I think we are getting hung up on semantics here. Intimidation goes along with dominance. The two go hand in hand. Calmly asserting yourself as the one in control is called leadeship. Dominance says, "I'm gonna whoop yer butt if you don't do what I say." But again, we are quibbling over minor things like what each perceives words to mean.



> Even though it has supposedly been determined through research that the wolf pack is not exactly like we initally thought, it doesn't change the fact that there are the more dominante and alpha roles who are in charge. Because they aren't the biggest, strongest SOB's of the group means nothing. They are alpha because they have the assertive energy and know how and the others of the pack recognize that and respect that.


They are alpha's ONLY because they are the Mama and Daddy wolves in the pack. No other reason. Just as your Mama and Daddy ruled your family. They didn't do anything to gain that authority except give birth to you and your siblings. 



> It is fact that dogs are social pack animals. They have a pack mentality. It can't be avoided. In a pack there are leaders and followers. Plain and simple. I choose to assert myself as a leader and my dogs fall into the follower role. Easy as that. I don't use intimidation. I don't use a mean and angry assertiveness. I use a calm and confident assertiveness. One with kindness and the intention of doing what is right and familiar to a dogs way of thinking.


When you put a pinch collar around a dog's neck, you are using intimidation. You use that pinch collar only because your confidence had gone out the window. If you were absolutely certain of your ability to handle the situation you would have never used it.



> The fact of the matter is that I was bringing a working type breed of dog with an intense prey drive into my house. A very strong dominante type breed that I knew nothing about. I knew nothing about her history. All I knew was that she had been abused and misstreated her entire life. All I knew was that she had chased down a cat and then followed through and killed it. She just didn't nudge it and then walk away. She came to my house with the mentality of cat = killing. She had never been taught to act any differently around a cat.


Sometimes using positive motivation takes a little extra thinking and planning. We are smarter than dogs. We CAN outsmart them. We don't need pinch collars, choke chains, or electric collars to control them. If you had put your mind to it, you could have come up with a way to introduce them using completely positive methods.



> All the prong collar did was give me more control over her if I needed it.


No, it gave YOU the confidence you needed to control the dog. You could have done it without the pinch collar if you had thought about it enough before undertaking the task. You just took the easy way out. The way that you didn't have to spend a lot of time and energy thinking and planning. :smile:



> Working with a mature Rottweiler is different than working with a young Golden Retriever.


My dogs are Great Danes. I am familiar with working with both Goldens and huge working dogs. I have also worked with birds of prey who would really think nothing of killing the handler if they could. Birds of prey are never your best friend. I have observed and studied using positive motivation on 350lb gorillas, 8,000lb elephants, and 4,000 rhino's among other wild animals.



> It was a tool used in teaching her.


Hehe, it was a tool used to give you enough confidence to teach her. She didn't need the collar, you did. :smile:



> I did put the cats in a safe place when first bringing her into the house. I did introduce them in a calm nonthreatening manner. What is body language and a calm confidence without assertiveness? There is nothing wrong with assertivness when used in the correct way. It's like saying "I really want you to get along...but....I don't really mean it. I won't follow through if there are problems because I think being assertive and taking control of the situation is mean."


I have to admit our circumstances are different, but in my house, my dogs know that there are no unpleasant consequences if they make a mistake. They know the proper way to behave and they behave that way because they know it is what the are supposed to do. No other reason. They won't be punished if they behave in an inappropriate manner. Anytime they are unsure of what they should do, they turn and watch me for cues as to what they should do. 99% of the time all I have to do is move my hands in a certain way as if to direct traffic and they know what to do. I rarely have to use words to tell them. I snap my finger, point somewhere or move my hand in a particular motion and they know. It's very cool. I love not having to fuss at them.

Thats the neat thing about having two dogs who you have never hit, kicked, punched, thrown anything at, jerked on a leash, yelled at or done any other negative thing to ... ever. They do what I say without question or hesitation because they know I won't lead them wrong or get them into a bad situation. They trust me completely as I trust them completely. Very few people have experienced that type of bond with their dogs.



> Just because I am taking on the alpha role in my pack doesn't mean that I am doing so in a negative or disrespectful way. IMO, by doing so I am giving my dogs the utmost respect and love (so to speak). I am helping them to play and socalize with other dogs in a healthy way. I am creating healthy behaviors and making it easy for the dog to respond positively to training. I am relating to the dog in a way that he can understand and appreciate. :smile:


I think we are doing close to the same thing but with a little different attitude. I don't consider myself Lord and Master of the Universe. I am not alpha. I am not boss. I am my dogs leader, teacher, and mentor. I don't train them. I teach and guide them. I think attitudewise there is a big difference.


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## JayJayisme (Aug 2, 2009)

Sorry, couldn't resist. :biggrin:


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