# Do Dogs Really Need Fruits and Vegetables?



## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

http://www.kirj.ee/public/Ecology/2009/issue_2/ecol-2009-2-141-152.pdf

found this on another forum.....and thought i'd post it here, too.

interesting.


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## chowder (Sep 7, 2008)

That was an interesting read. Especially the two charts that pointed out the differences between the ages and the sex's. It definitely demonstrated that older wolves didn't have any plants or berries in their stomachs, and that females had significantly more then males. They didn't reach a conclusion on the plants exactly, but I would agree with them that the older wolves are just better at hunting then the younger ones, and that the younger ones eat plants out of necessity. Same thing with the females. 

It seems the conclusion would be that they can actually get sustenance from plants and fruits, it's just not their ideal, and that as they get better at hunting, they go for the pure meat diet.


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

I don't believe they can get enough in the way of nutrients to make a difference. I feel like even if that was their only choice,

1)they would starve to death
2)they wouldn't be eating the same veggies we eat, beans, corn tomatoes etc.... it would be grass and weeds.

I don't know if #2 would make much of a difference, but either way I just don't think they would be able to get enough of any nutrient to even count.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Interesting. I also think it varies by location. I remember reading somewhere that the main diet of Canadian wolves in the winter is mice.

And I'm sure the plants/berries they ate would drop to zero during the winter when they aren't any. As would other things they eat change with the seasons.

If I were going to feed my dog non-meat stuff, it would probably be berries. They are squishier and might even be somewhat digestible.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

naturalfeddogs said:


> 2)they wouldn't be eating the same veggies we eat, beans, corn tomatoes etc.... it would be grass and weeds.


yes, it's probably pretty hard to find pureed broccoli and crockpot carrots in the middle of the forest!


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## chowder (Sep 7, 2008)

naturalfeddogs said:


> I don't believe they can get enough in the way of nutrients to make a difference. I feel like even if that was their only choice,
> 
> 1)they would starve to death
> 2)they wouldn't be eating the same veggies we eat, beans, corn tomatoes etc.... it would be grass and weeds.
> ...


They seem to be eating them for a reason and surviving. If you compare the charts, the only real difference in the diets, is when you compare the amounts of beaver and boar. It appears that when the wolves had a large kill like a deer, then everyone got to eat and they all had equal amount of meat. But when it was smaller like a boar, or especially an individual meal like a beaver, then the young wolves and the females didn't get any. And that is when they resorted to eating the plants and berries. I don't think they were eating them just because they were tasty, it must have been doing them at least a little good for that many individual animals to be doing it on a routine basis. 

Since this is Latvia, we can probably assume it is not tomatoes and beans but more likely mostly berries, nuts, wild grasses, or anything like that . :smile:


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## PDXdogmom (Jun 30, 2010)

Interesting read . . . thanks.

I'm not a raw feeder, but I have to say that blueberries and raspberries are the only fresh foods that I give as treats to my dogs that seem to be well- digested and not coming out the other end. I can't say that about any fresh vegetables.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

i found it interesting because plant matter, including fruits, were way down the list.

pdxmom, when i was feeding veggies and fruits, i never saw any come out the other end......


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

naturalfeddogs said:


> I don't believe they can get enough in the way of nutrients to make a difference. I feel like even if that was their only choice,
> 
> 1)they would starve to death
> 2)they wouldn't be eating the same veggies we eat, beans, corn tomatoes etc.... it would be grass and weeds.
> ...


i think that's what this is showing.

that in order NOT to starve, they will eat plant proteins, but apparently not much.


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## DaViking (Sep 27, 2011)

naturalfeddogs said:


> 1)they would starve to death
> 2)they wouldn't be eating the same veggies we eat, beans, corn tomatoes etc.... it would be grass and weeds.
> 
> I don't know if #2 would make much of a difference, but either way I just don't think they would be able to get enough of any nutrient to even count.


They would absolutely not starve to death. They are opportunistic eaters. Place some blood flavored potato and cornmeal balls around in the woods and I will guarantee you the wolves will be all over that like there where no tomorrow. Ask farmers who have no love for the wolf how well it works. What is weeds?

The wolf's problem is that the energy they get in return from the odd pea pod or what have you is barely worth it. On a fresh kill they are good to go for a long time.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

DaViking said:


> They would absolutely not starve to death. They are opportunistic eaters. Place some blood flavored potato and cornmeal balls around in the woods and I will guarantee you the wolves will be all over that like there where no tomorrow. Ask farmers who have no love for the wolf how well it works. What is weeds?
> 
> The wolf's problem is that the energy they get in return from the odd pea pod or what have you is barely worth it. On a fresh kill they are good to go for a long time.


i think that's the point. they don't seek it out. if they are eating berries, it's because they are easy to eat.

no one is saying they are not opportunistic. so are humans when they are hungry. it's either that or starve. 

unless blood has become the newest round of fertiliser, then i posit wolves don't raid corn fields, unless they are chasing warm blooded prey.


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## DaViking (Sep 27, 2011)

magicre said:


> unless blood has become the newest round of fertiliser, then i posit wolves don't raid corn fields, unless they are chasing warm blooded prey.


They aren't because digesting whole corn would be a living nightmare for them, it's a nightmare for any species. Running around a cornfield for kernels doesn't make sense. Hypothetical, but if presented with more easily available energy (processed) in the form of plants in the wild I am convinced their intake would be higher. After all, dogs have some omnivore metabolic characteristics like converting carotene to vitamin A, tryptophan to niacin, cysteine to taurine and linoleic acid to arachidonic acid plus many many more. True carnivores don't have these metabolic abilities. How much more energy from plant matter would they eat if it was easily available and made sense to go after? No one knows but it is fair to say it would be more.

Do they need fruits and vegetables as the title asks? No, they don't. Dogs take care of their blood glucose without carbohydrates. Can they benefit energy and nutrient wise from plant matter? Absolutely in my opinion. And in there lies all the differences between peoples beliefs and views.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

DaViking said:


> They aren't because digesting whole corn would be a living nightmare for them, it's a nightmare for any species. Hypothetical, but if presented with more easily available energy (processed) in the form of plants in the wild I am convinced their intake would be higher. After all, dogs have some omnivore metabolic characteristics like converting carotene to vitamin A, tryptophan to niacin, cysteine to taurine and linoleic acid to arachidonic acid plus many many more. True carnivores don't have these metabolic abilities. How much more energy from plant matter would they eat if it was easily available? No one knows but it is fair to say it would be more.


That's why we can feed dog plant matter if it's already broken down so they can digest it. But they don't need it to survive.


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## DaViking (Sep 27, 2011)

xellil said:


> That's why we can feed dog plant matter if it's already broken down so they can digest it. But they don't need it to survive.


Sorry, read the rest of my reply.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

DaViking said:


> They aren't because digesting whole corn would be a living nightmare for them, it's a nightmare for any species. Running around a cornfield for kernels doesn't make sense. Hypothetical, but if presented with more easily available energy (processed) in the form of plants in the wild I am convinced their intake would be higher. After all, dogs have some omnivore metabolic characteristics like converting carotene to vitamin A, tryptophan to niacin, cysteine to taurine and linoleic acid to arachidonic acid plus many many more. True carnivores don't have these metabolic abilities. How much more energy from plant matter would they eat if it was easily available and made sense to go after? No one knows but it is fair to say it would be more.
> 
> Do they need fruits and vegetables as the title asks? No, they don't. Dogs take care of their blood glucose without carbohydrates. Can they benefit energy and nutrient wise from plant matter? Absolutely in my opinion. And in there lies all the differences between peoples beliefs and views.


i was kind of being tongue in cheek.


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## DaViking (Sep 27, 2011)

magicre said:


> i was kind of being tongue in cheek.


I know, all good. My writing style is usually more serious than my facial expressions :smile:


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

This is me:


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## shellbell (Sep 24, 2011)

I wonder if they sometimes eat plants and fruit for the same reason that my dogs like to eat grass and sticks and leaves. I feel like my dogs just do it b/c it is there and fun to munch on. Or sometimes I wonder if they just want something in their stomachs between meal times.


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## KittyKat (Feb 11, 2011)

I have a feeling that the younger wolves do it as it's an easy source of energy. Thinking the fast sugars from the berries give a boost when they are hungry. Adult wolves are able to kill other animals easily and thus don't feel the need to snack. 

I had always thought they just liked the taste - but if that was the case the adult wolves would partake as well.


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

In the wild,(and our domestic dogs) I believe they eat berries, grass,weeds etc.. simply because they like the taste.

Do WE NEED to give them plant matter? I say no, because what if anything they are able to get out of it they can get much easier from raw meat, bones and organs. Their digestives just aren't set up for something of that nature. It takes too long to digest plant matter, and they have too short of a digestive system for that. Why give them that, when they can get all they need from the meat, bones and organs? totally JMO on that.


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## KittyKat (Feb 11, 2011)

naturalfeddogs said:


> In the wild,(and our domestic dogs) I believe they eat berries, grass,weeds etc.. simply because they like the taste.
> 
> Do WE NEED to give them plant matter? I say no, because what if anything they are able to get out of it they can get much easier from raw meat, bones and organs. Their digestives just aren't set up for something of that nature. It takes too long to digest plant matter, and they have too short of a digestive system for that. Why give them that, when they can get all they need from the meat, bones and organs? totally JMO on that.


See I figured that(the whole taste deal), but why does this study show that adult wolves don't have any plant matter in their stomachs?


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

I really can't say right off why adults only don't for sure. I just believe that it shows that they really don't need them for nutritional purposes.


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## BearMurphy (Feb 29, 2012)

KittyKat said:


> See I figured that(the whole taste deal), but why does this study show that adult wolves don't have any plant matter in their stomachs?


maybe it's because younger wolves just like to put stuff in their mouths like our puppies do. i had to constantly take stuff out of murphy's mouth when he was a pup and now he might chew on a stick or eat some grass but he doesn't constantly try to chew and swallow garbage.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

I think we can theorize all we want to that fruits/veggies/grains offer some value to dogs but the facts remain they don't need carbs. 

Maybe wolves eat them on occasion when they are handy - maybe they taste good, maybe they are hungry and that's all there is - but they would be fine without them.

I give my dogs apples and bananas and watermelon because they sit there and look at me when I am eating them. i used to feed Snorkels green beans and pumpkin every day. None of that hurts them in small amounts (I don't think) but it's not what keeps their heart pumping, liver and kidneys going, muscles moving.

We would only have a problem if I decided they didn't need meat, bones, or organs.


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## NewYorkDogue (Sep 27, 2011)

shellbell said:


> I wonder if they sometimes eat plants and fruit for the same reason that my dogs like to eat grass and sticks and leaves. I feel like my dogs just do it b/c it is there and fun to munch on. Or sometimes I wonder if they just want something in their stomachs between meal times.


There are some nut trees that grow near the local dog park in my neighborhood (maybe acorns?) Anyway, when they drop to the ground the dogs go crazy for them, just walking around munching, munching...along with little twigs and things.

One person referred to this edible debris as "park pretzels". Yeah, maybe they just taste good and dogs treat them as snack foods...


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

NewYorkDogue said:


> There are some nut trees that grow near the local dog park in my neighborhood (maybe acorns?) Anyway, when they drop to the ground the dogs go crazy for them, just walking around munching, munching...along with little twigs and things.
> 
> One person referred to this edible debris as "park pretzels". Yeah, maybe they just taste good and dogs treat them as snack foods...


Or Snorkels. She LOVES berries from our bushes outside. We have a plum tree and right now she's going nuts for the plums. She eats bird seed, acorns, whatever falls out of a tree or bush she's nuts over. 

Even horseapples, those nasty things that nothing eats, she loves. I bet she goes nuts over our pomegranete bush when it produces, also. And Lord help me when the pecans come in. Shoot, we'll have chicken wire EVERYWHERE in the yard to keep her away from that stuff.

But I think life would be easier for all of us if she didn't like that stuff. Maybe she thinks she's a hungry wolf


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## NewYorkDogue (Sep 27, 2011)

xellil said:


> Or Snorkels. She LOVES berries from our bushes outside. We have a plum tree and right now she's going nuts for the plums. She eats bird seed, acorns, whatever falls out of a tree or bush she's nuts over.
> 
> Even horseapples, those nasty things that nothing eats, she loves. I bet she goes nuts over our pomegranete bush when it produces, also. And Lord help me when the pecans come in. Shoot, we'll have chicken wire EVERYWHERE in the yard to keep her away from that stuff.
> 
> But I think life would be easier for all of us if she didn't like that stuff. Maybe she thinks she's a hungry wolf


Wow-- just sayin' I'm jealous of all that you have growing on your property... berries; plums; poms; pecans, etc. 

Lucky you-- and Snorkels :biggrin1:


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## DaViking (Sep 27, 2011)

xellil said:


> I think we can theorize all we want to that fruits/veggies/grains offer some value to dogs but the facts remain they don't need carbs.
> 
> Maybe wolves eat them on occasion when they are handy - maybe they taste good, maybe they are hungry and that's all there is - but they would be fine without them.
> 
> ...


Nature never meant for you to eat fish either but boy does it benefit us.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

DaViking said:


> Nature never meant for you to eat fish either but boy does it benefit us.


We are not dogs.


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## BearMurphy (Feb 29, 2012)

NewYorkDogue said:


> There are some nut trees that grow near the local dog park in my neighborhood (maybe acorns?) Anyway, when they drop to the ground the dogs go crazy for them, just walking around munching, munching...along with little twigs and things.
> 
> One person referred to this edible debris as "park pretzels". Yeah, maybe they just taste good and dogs treat them as snack foods...


my dog used to eat those like candy too and then I found out that acorns are from oak trees which have tannins and are toxic to dogs. have seen plenty of them eat acorns with no ill effects but it's probably something you want to discourage. and actually maybe its some more proof that dogs don't necessarily eat things that they need or are good for them


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

BearMurphy said:


> my dog used to eat those like candy too and then I found out that acorns are from oak trees which have tannins and are toxic to dogs. have seen plenty of them eat acorns with no ill effects but it's probably something you want to discourage. and actually maybe its some more proof that dogs don't necessarily eat things that they need or are good for them


I worry the same thing about Snorkels - especially the red berries on bushes. I have no idea which ones are poisonous but I know some are. And since dogs are poisoned by things that don't bother us at all, like grapes, you have to worry about what they are scavenging.


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## bridget246 (Oct 26, 2011)

DaViking said:


> Nature never meant for you to eat fish either but boy does it benefit us.


Where did that come from? I'm a little confused as to how you came to the conclusion that we were never meant to eat fish. My friends dad came from a small developing country that I cant' think of the name of. Anyways, we went fishing with all our equipment and his dad didn't like using our poles. We didn't understand what he meant until he reached into the water and pulled out a fish. I will never know how he did that so easily.


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## kathylcsw (Jul 31, 2011)

I don't know that dogs really need fruits or veggies but I do know that mine like berries, bananas, and apples. I feed them bits of fruit because I figure it won't hurt them and they enjoy it. I wouldn't make it a staple of their diets but I do give them bits and stuff it in their kongs sometimes.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

bridget246 said:


> Where did that come from? I'm a little confused as to how you came to the conclusion that we were never meant to eat fish. My friends dad came from a small developing country that I cant' think of the name of. Anyways, we went fishing with all our equipment and his dad didn't like using our poles. We didn't understand what he meant until he reached into the water and pulled out a fish. I will never know how he did that so easily.


Well, the Inuits lived on fish and seal blubber for centuries. I guess they adapted


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

bubba has a rock he likes to carry around. doesn't chew on it or anything. just picks it up and moves it from one place to another. 

doesn't mean it's good for him or that he needs it.


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## BearMurphy (Feb 29, 2012)

magicre said:


> bubba has a rock he likes to carry around. doesn't chew on it or anything. just picks it up and moves it from one place to another.
> 
> doesn't mean it's good for him or that he needs it.


aww he sounds like a funny pug. the one that my family-in-law had didn't seem to do anything but bark, mark it's territory, and butt tuck around the room and up on the couches occasionally. oh and grunt, snort and snore alot


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

bridget246 said:


> Where did that come from? I'm a little confused as to how you came to the conclusion that we were never meant to eat fish. My friends dad came from a small developing country that I cant' think of the name of. Anyways, we went fishing with all our equipment and his dad didn't like using our poles. We didn't understand what he meant until he reached into the water and pulled out a fish. I will never know how he did that so easily.


LOL....wait. i thought daviking said dogs were not meant to eat fish....so now i don't get that statement either.

wolves who live in alaska eat fish. people in the mediterranean area eat fish....so do most people who live near water. why weren't we meant to eat fish?


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

BearMurphy said:


> aww he sounds like a funny pug. the one that my family-in-law had didn't seem to do anything but bark, mark it's territory, and butt tuck around the room and up on the couches occasionally. oh and grunt, snort and snore alot


we had his nose fixed, so it's not as much or as loud, but yes, he snorts and snores and makes noises....he's a funny pug....never had one before.....may never have one again.....but i heart this dog.


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## DaViking (Sep 27, 2011)

magicre said:


> LOL....wait. i thought daviking said dogs were not meant to eat fish....so now i don't get that statement either.
> 
> wolves who live in alaska eat fish. people in the mediterranean area eat fish....so do most people who live near water. why weren't we meant to eat fish?


Mankind have adapted to catch and eat fish, and today is a must to feed the globe. Same thing with dogs who metabolically differ from true carnivores. They adapt to ground grains and other carbs with no big issues. Just as fish and fish meal is a must to feed billions of humans carbohydrates is a must to feed dogs. If not the world' supply of food would collapse.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

DaViking said:


> Mankind have adapted to catch and eat fish, and today is a must to feed the globe. Same thing with dogs who metabolically differ from true carnivores. They adapt to ground grains and other carbs with no big issues. Just as fish and fish meal is a must to feed billions of humans carbohydrates is a must to feed dogs. If not the world' supply of food would collapse.


so early man ignored the ocean?

wolves ignored the salmon jumping all over the place in kodiak, alaska?

really?


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## DaViking (Sep 27, 2011)

magicre said:


> so early man ignored the ocean?
> 
> wolves ignored the salmon jumping all over the place in kodiak, alaska?
> 
> really?


The first "man" ate what was the least path of resistance. Fruits, berries, grains, seeds, roots, nuts and so fort. Later techniques for hunting and harvesting where developed.


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## Tobi (Mar 18, 2011)

op2:op2:op2:op2:op2:


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

DaViking said:


> The first "man" ate what was the least path of resistance. Fruits, berries, grains, seeds, roots, nuts and so fort. Later techniques for hunting and harvesting where developed.


ok. maybe first man gathered.

then man hunted. i believe catching fish is part of this period of time.

then man decided he was tired and started to harvest. after all, what are women for?


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## Sheltielover25 (Jan 18, 2011)

DaViking said:


> Mankind have adapted to catch and eat fish, and today is a must to feed the globe. Same thing with dogs who metabolically differ from true carnivores. They adapt to ground grains and other carbs with no big issues. Just as fish and fish meal is a must to feed billions of humans carbohydrates is a must to feed dogs. If not the world' supply of food would collapse.


I look at it this way: I'm about 95lbs and in good health/shape. Up until last year I knew nothing about nutrition and drank soda and ate candy regularly and also new nothing about the meat industry and ate any meat like it was all equal. I'm healthy, never gained weight, never had the flu and only go to the doctor about once every five years. So while I was surviving, and doing well to some degree on food that wasn't appropriate, I didn't realize how much better I could feel. Now I eat only local meat/veggies and raw milk/free range eggs. I feel insanely more alert, sleep better, and more energized. I think the same thing goes with dogs. Sure, they can sustain life on vegetables or grains or whatnot. But will they feel as good as they're capable of feeling? No, never. I think people who don't feed raw feel like a little bit threatened and perhaps guilty by the fact no matter how well a dog is doing on grains/veggies/fruits, they'll never be feeling as good as they would on raw meat/bones/organs so they try to justify and find any tiny benefit they can to said things. That's my 02. on the issue.


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## Sheltielover25 (Jan 18, 2011)

magicre said:


> ok. maybe first man gathered.
> 
> then man hunted. i believe catching fish is part of this period of time.
> 
> then man decided he was tired and started to harvest. after all, what are women for?


People gather fish with their hands, noodling! So I don't see why they didn't do this from the start? I don't know much about it but I don't know anything that lines up to justify a statement such as men weren't designed to eat fish. I think we're designed to eat anything below us on the food chain personally.


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## DaViking (Sep 27, 2011)

magicre said:


> ok. maybe first man gathered.
> 
> then man hunted. i believe catching fish is part of this period of time.
> 
> then man decided he was tired and started to harvest. after all, what are women for?


Lol, I'm afraid to answer now. My reply is yes, no or maybe? :biggrin:


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

DaViking said:


> Lol, I'm afraid to answer now. My reply is yes, no or maybe? :biggrin:


see? i know how to do a thread stopper. LOL


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## Sheltielover25 (Jan 18, 2011)

DaViking said:


> Lol, I'm afraid to answer now. My reply is yes, no or maybe? :biggrin:


This is not correct. ancient hominids, the earliest known, had a diet of fish/turtles/frogs etc. It's part of the reason, the fish, they think the brain expanded so much.

Early hominin ate “seafood”, possible reason for the expansion of the brain « Anthropology.net and at the end are other similar articles.

You really think people were trying to find food and just ignored these easyish-to-catch, harmless creatures such as frogs and fish that gave them an abundant amount of energy over berries and nuts? LOL


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## DaViking (Sep 27, 2011)

Sheltielover25 said:


> This is not correct. ancient hominids, the earliest known, had a diet of fish/turtles/frogs etc. It's part of the reason, the fish, they think the brain expanded so much.
> 
> Early hominin ate “seafood”, possible reason for the expansion of the brain « Anthropology.net and at the end are other similar articles.
> 
> You really think people were trying to find food and just ignored these easyish-to-catch, harmless creatures such as frogs and fish that gave them an abundant amount of energy over berries and nuts? LOL


People? Hominins are 1 part in a group of pre human spices. One of several spices believed to play a part in the creation of man. But ok, I give up because you can take it as far as that we are all genetically descendants of marine organisms. Every single one of us, unless you are into Adam and Eve that is. But that doesn't mean I eat plankton or seaweed. Things have evolved within the boundaries of what individual spices can digest. We can thrive on a variety of foods and so can dogs, but not to the same extent as humans. That's the whole point here. Anyone who argues that dogs or wolves are true carnivores have no support in science, not even nutritionists or vets who are all about feeding raw argues that. They are part of the group carnivora but carnivora contains many species who are adapted carnivores or adapted omnivores. Dogs and wolves have different metabolic abilities that true carnivores don't posses and they have little problems utilizing energy from various plant ingredients. But that doesn't mean it is right to feed a dog 40 to 80 percent carbs from wheat and corn.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

DaViking said:


> Hominins are 1 part in a group of pre human spices. But ok, I give up because you can take it as far as that we are all genetically descendants of marine organisms. Every single one of us, unless you are into Adam and Eve that is. But that doesn't mean I eat plankton or seaweed. Things have evolved within the boundaries of what individual spices can digest. We can thrive on a variety of foods and so can dogs, but not to the same extent as humans. That's the whole point here. Anyone who argues that dogs or wolves are true carnivores have no support in science, not even nutritionists or vets who are all about feeding raw argues that. They are part of the group carnivora but carnivora contains many species who are adapted carnivores or adapted omnivores. Dogs and wolves have different metabolic abilities that true carnivores don't posses and they have little problems utilizing energy from various plant ingredients. But that doesn't mean it is right to feed a dog 40 to 80 percent carbs from wheat and corn.


If you eat seaweed salad, you are eating marine seaweed......or sushi.....

As for dogs, I think it is a case of never the 'twain shall meet.


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## DaViking (Sep 27, 2011)

magicre said:


> If you eat seaweed salad, you are eating marine seaweed......or sushi.....


Yeah, everyone, including myself, should probably eat much more marine products.


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## sozzle (May 18, 2011)

BearMurphy said:


> my dog used to eat those like candy too and then I found out that acorns are from oak trees which have tannins and are toxic to dogs. have seen plenty of them eat acorns with no ill effects but it's probably something you want to discourage. and actually maybe its some more proof that dogs don't necessarily eat things that they need or are good for them


I would check too whether or not they are acorns as they are toxic to dogs. Also to livestock but I can't remember which ones.

My inlaws dog was visiting us recently and I happened to see him vomit something up, so I went outside to investigate and he had thrown up an acorn (we don't have any oak trees in our garden) so when I googled it discovered how potentially dangerous they are to dogs, luckily he hadn't masticated it very much at all. Funny thing was after that he then went and nibbled some of my rosemary plant - almost as if he was self medicating??


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## 3Musketeers (Nov 4, 2010)

Tobi said:


> op2:op2:op2:op2:op2:


I second this.

*returns to lurking*


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## NewYorkDogue (Sep 27, 2011)

sozzle said:


> I would check too whether or not they are acorns as they are toxic to dogs. Also to livestock but I can't remember which ones.
> 
> My inlaws dog was visiting us recently and I happened to see him vomit something up, so I went outside to investigate and he had thrown up an acorn (we don't have any oak trees in our garden) so when I googled it discovered how potentially dangerous they are to dogs, luckily he hadn't masticated it very much at all. Funny thing was after that he then went and nibbled some of my rosemary plant - almost as if he was self medicating??


Mateo never seemed to have an issue with the nuts, but it is good information to know- thanks.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

3Musketeers said:


> I second this.
> 
> *returns to lurking*



how are you? all is well?


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

I understand that grapes are totally harmless to some dogs and some other dogs drop dead when they eat them. Very weird.

WE have all these plums in the yard and Snorkels loves to eat them. She just puked up her supper and it had two whole plums in there even though I swear I haven't let her around them. Apparently the pits have cyanide in them. Maybe they will only kill her if the pits aren't whole.

Just one of another million things to worry about.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

xellil said:


> I understand that grapes are totally harmless to some dogs and some other dogs drop dead when they eat them. Very weird.
> 
> WE have all these plums in the yard and Snorkels loves to eat them. She just puked up her supper and it had two whole plums in there even though I swear I haven't let her around them. Apparently the pits have cyanide in them. Maybe they will only kill her if the pits aren't whole.
> 
> Just one of another million things to worry about.


snorkels isn't dying. she isn't done annoying you.


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## chowder (Sep 7, 2008)

naturalfeddogs said:


> I really can't say right off why adults only don't for sure. I just believe that it shows that they really don't need them for nutritional purposes.


I think the whole point of the scientific study shows that 

1. No, they don't 'need' them for nutritional purposes if they have another, ideal source of food

2. But..... since both young wolves up to age 2 and females all seem to eat plants and berries, they are obviously eating them as a replacement for something they are lacking (i.e. meat that the older males are taking). 

3. Therefore, they must be utilizing the nutrients from them. Nature doesn't do something in mass quantities without a reason. If only one or two wolves had plants in their stomach, it might be a fluke, but not a large percentage of them. I doubt that wolves up to age 2 AND females would all be eating plants and berries just because they are tasty but older males find them yucky! 

4. Am I going to run out and feed Rocky a plate of peas and blueberries? - No.... he'd spit them at me :becky:


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## pufff (Oct 23, 2011)

My 6 month old boxer pup loves to eat the pulp left over from my fruit and veg juicing. This morning we had beetroot, orange and grapefruit. He couldn't wait to tuck in! He really loves it! He also enjoys the pulp from a mean green juice - spinach or kale, celery, apple, lime and ginger, or red cabbage and carrot goes down well too! He's been raw since 8 weeks and looks fabulous!


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## NewYorkDogue (Sep 27, 2011)

pufff said:


> My 6 month old boxer pup loves to eat the pulp left over from my fruit and veg juicing. This morning we had beetroot, orange and grapefruit. He couldn't wait to tuck in! He really loves it! He also enjoys the pulp from a mean green juice - spinach or kale, celery, apple, lime and ginger, or red cabbage and carrot goes down well too! He's been raw since 8 weeks and looks fabulous!


When I had my previous dog (black lab) I was juicing a lot more than I am now (more smoothies now)-- and I would mix in the pulp into his food, or sometimes give him a pinch to eat straight from my hand. He loved it also!


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## Tobi (Mar 18, 2011)

Tobi ate a lb of strawberries last night that one of the girls left on a low counter in the kitchen :wacko: his poop this morning was strawberry blood red... i hope he had a little belly ache from all that sugar in those... :lol:


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

Tobi said:


> Tobi ate a lb of strawberries last night that one of the girls left on a low counter in the kitchen :wacko: his poop this morning was strawberry blood red... i hope he had a little belly ache from all that sugar in those... :lol:


you're only saying that because you're glad he didn't poo in the house.  or get the squirts.

ahem. one of the girls left the strawberries on the low counter.....what's a tobi to do?


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## chowder (Sep 7, 2008)

magicre said:


> you're only saying that because you're glad he didn't poo in the house.  or get the squirts.
> 
> ahem. one of the girls left the strawberries on the low counter.....what's a tobi to do?


At the price of strawberries now, can you blame him for eating them!


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## Makovach (Jan 24, 2012)

Very interesting read. Very interesting comments/opinions.  Really helps to open up the mind and expand the knowledge. 

Tucker will eat anything. He is a puppy. He likes to have everything in his mouth. You sit it down, he will eat it. Annie on the other hand, you couldn't pay her to eat fruits or veggies. She won't even touch kibble any more. She is more than happy to eat her PMR tho  I've never seen her be so enthusiastic about eating. 

That said, I know dogs/wolves eat nuts, seeds, roots, branches, veggies and fruits, but that doesn't mean they need it or could live off of that alone (at least not with out having very poor health.)


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## Tobi (Mar 18, 2011)

magicre said:


> you're only saying that because you're glad he didn't poo in the house.  or get the squirts.
> 
> ahem. one of the girls left the strawberries on the low counter.....what's a tobi to do?





chowder said:


> At the price of strawberries now, can you blame him for eating them!


I didn't blame him at all, hell i'm glad he enjoyed them! :lol:

We actually get them pretty cheap from farms around here, gallon buckets for 6$ each full of lil strawberries. we've got a freezer full now :thumb:


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## chowder (Sep 7, 2008)

Tobi said:


> We actually get them pretty cheap from farms around here, gallon buckets for 6$ each full of lil strawberries. we've got a freezer full now :thumb:


Ooooh.......that would be wonderful! I have tried for years to get decent strawberries here and they just grow nasty strawberries in our part of the state. They are sour and expensive. I've even tried the pick your own patches and they are bad. It's probably because our weather keeps changing from 80 degrees to 30 degrees every other day all winter long.


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## Tobi (Mar 18, 2011)

chowder said:


> Ooooh.......that would be wonderful! I have tried for years to get decent strawberries here and they just grow nasty strawberries in our part of the state. They are sour and expensive. I've even tried the pick your own patches and they are bad. It's probably because our weather keeps changing from 80 degrees to 30 degrees every other day all winter long.


have you been to your farmers market up there? Raleigh has an amazing one from what i've read online. we do the upick thing with a csa around here as well, fresh veggies, fruits etc, love it  dig annd you can eventually find something to your liking :tongue:


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