# Itching & scratching, what to try next?



## mhconrad (Nov 1, 2010)

I have a 3 year old Miniature Schnauzer that I am having a hard time finding the right food for. When I rescued him as a puppy he was being feed Ol'Roy senior food (and not being treated well). I took him to the vet for a check up and vaccinations, vet wanted him on Science Diet and this was before I knew much about dog food. Within a few months he was itching until he bleed and had dry, flaky skin. Vet wanted him on steriods and antihistamines for the rest of his life. I knew I didn't want that so started researching and trying to figure out what was causing it. 

In my trial and error with food I discovered beef, chicken, corn, and wheat all made the itching much more severe. I have been feeding Natural Balance LID for the last year and rotating with the fish & sweet potato, venison & Sweet potato, and duck & potato. The itching was much less but still not great. The last time we bought Natural Balance my husband got a 30 lb bag of Sweet Potato & Bison because the packaging was torn in shipping so it was 1/2 price at Petco. We are getting to the end of the bag and the itching is becoming really bad again, he wakes me up at night scratching his face and chewing on his paws constantly.
I have no idea what to try next. I don't have a huge budget to work with but will do my best to get him what he needs to he is not scratching and chewing on himself all the time. 

Thanks in advance for any help or guidance you can offer.


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

Have you considered at all a raw diet for your dog? Many of us here have had issues with allergies concerning our loved pets and the only solution that we came up with was to switch to a raw diet! Good Luck


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## chocolatelabguy (Nov 17, 2009)

Have you considered California Naturals Grain Free Venison Meal or Lamb Meal formulas? Their limited ingredient products have done well with many dogs with skin and itchiness issues. Also, you may want to consider some of the fish-based grain free foods from Orijen, Acana, Taste Of The Wild, Wellness Core, etc.


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## cprcheetah (Jul 14, 2010)

I had the same problem with Zoey, so in July I switched her to Prey model Raw, she is no longer red & itchy, she doesn't scratch herself silly anymore, and her feet/legs are growing back white now instead of being stained red. She's been eating raw for almost 4 months (Started July 7th)


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## deb9017 (Aug 31, 2010)

My Dane also had the same problem. Constant itchiness, and his coat was really really thin. We switched to Prey Model Raw 3 months ago. Now there is no more itching, and his coat is a LOT thicker than it used to be.


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## xxshaelxx (Mar 8, 2010)

The meat in kibble is cooked, completely changing the genetic makeup of the proteins. Perhaps it is this that is causing her allergies? I'm with a couple of others here. You may want to try a raw diet. As daunting and scary as that sounds, it'd probably be your best option for the dog, short of feeding him boiled chicken and rice for the rest of his life (which wouldn't work, either, please don't! haha)...

But yeah, if you're uncomfortable with that option, definitely try the brands of kibble everyone else is recommending. I'm not a kibble expert, so I won't try to recommend anything for this problem, but they're all really knowledgable on their recommendations. :wink:


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## mhconrad (Nov 1, 2010)

I haven't ever seen the California naturals in my area. Have seen Taste of Wild at the farm store, have a Petco in the area so Wellness is sold there. I also stopped at small pet boutique last week and they sell Orijen and Acana. 

I also looked at the raw stuff they have, think it was Stella & Chewy's brand but it seemed to be way very expensive to feed it everyday.

Also I have been told to be watch that the protein and fat isn't too high because schnauzers are prone to pancreatis, kidney & bladder problems. I don't know if that is true or not, I can't seem to find much info as to what their problem & fat percentage should be.


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## xxshaelxx (Mar 8, 2010)

mhconrad said:


> I also looked at the raw stuff they have, think it was Stella & Chewy's brand but it seemed to be way very expensive to feed it everyday.


That's a premade raw diet. We're talking about a Prey Model Raw diet where you make all of the decisions as to what the dog feeds and how much you spend. I was spending $100 a month on Taste of the Wild and Solid Gold when my dogs were puppies and on kibble. I now spend roughly $60 a month on their food. :wink:


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

Please search the raw section as this will answer the question about raw or premade raw, very few of us here use that type of feeding, we use human grade chicken, beef turkey, fish etc. Also search the dog food, canned section for more info on the good quality kibbles like Acana.


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## RachelsaurusRexU (Sep 4, 2010)

The type of raw that many of us feed here is not a commercially made diet. It's called prey model raw and it's comprised of much of the same meats (also bone and organs!) you'd purchase for yourself, either at a supermarket, meat wholesaler, butcher, etc. It's drastically less expensive than premade raw and is usually much less expensive than the premium kibbles.


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## mhconrad (Nov 1, 2010)

Feeding prey model raw seems tough for me to do. First he won't eat his food outside, always brings it inside, to my carpet. Also when I have given him a bone in the past, he drags it to the carpet and before he is done with it, its all over his beard, paws, chest fur...he is just a super messy eater. And when it comes to raw meat, I have a very queasy stomach
It seems most people use chicken and beef, neither of which he can have.


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

mhconrad said:


> Also I have been told to be watch that the protein and fat isn't too high because schnauzers are prone to pancreatis, kidney & bladder problems. I don't know if that is true or not, I can't seem to find much info as to what their problem & fat percentage should be.


The good quality protein found in raw meat does not have a negative effect on the prancreas, kidneys, or bladder. Feeding prey model raw supplies the right amount of protein and fat, the amount nature intended. Check out my web page linked in my sig.


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## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

Its very rare for a dog to have an allergy to raw meat, but common to be allergic to cooked meat. It changeable the structure of The protein.

I thought it would be tough as well but it is verrrry easy to feed raw.

I feed my dog in his kennel so he doesn't drag it around. Some feed outside or train it to eat only on a mat.


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## xxshaelxx (Mar 8, 2010)

As Bishopthesheltie says, the genetic makeup of raw and cooked foods is completely different. There have been many dogs with allergies to beef/chicken in kibble, and when people put them on raw, that changed completely. Also, you don't HAVE to include chicken and beef if he truly IS allergic to the raw forms as well. You can feed turkey, fish, pork, and any number of different proteins.


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## RachelsaurusRexU (Sep 4, 2010)

I gate the dogs in my kitchen and feed them right onthe tile floor, or sometimes they'll eat in their crates. 

As far as being queasy, I haven't eaten meat for over fifteen years. When I placed my first meat order in August, I psyched myself out to either vomit, have an anxiety attack, or faint. But you know what? I did none of the above!! After a couple of days it became just another part of our routine and at this point, it's easier than ever! I say, if it's something you are interested in after doing some research, don't let that deter you. If I can do it, you can do it! And you'd be amazed at how much it can benefit your dog.


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## Gia (May 29, 2009)

Just thought I'd add that this is not always the case...one of my dogs is allergic to beef and any products that contain beef by-products. The fresher the beef the worse the reaction. Fresh raw beef, ground, whole or RMB causes the worst reaction, canned food that has beef or "meat by-products" (which is beef) is next, then dry foods and then things like rawhides and beef chewies are last on the list, but still cause a reaction.

Thought I should add, that her symptoms are sore, itchy red pustules between her toes some as large as pencil erasers, some as small as pinheads. If I leave them unchecked she licks her feet continuously and limps when she walks. poor girl


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## saltydogs (Oct 31, 2010)

The Vets I work with use two foods for stubborn allergy cases:

1) Annamaet Option, which is Catfish-based, it is highly unlikely that your dog has ever eaten catfish so this might work very well.

2) Zinpro, which is Menhaden-based, this food has a special mineral mix that seems to help some dogs.

Based on the type of dog, either of these are worth a shot.


Please stop rotating foods, especially now.


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## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

Annamaet does have corn in it, which you stated your dog was allergic to..

Honestly you could try feeding another bag of the food he for sure isn't allergic to, and then for one meal a day feed him raw chicken (like a quarter) to see if he reacts. 

I have a cat who is allergic to corn and cooked chicken and fish.. and I went through a lot of brands to try her on.. and nothing worked until I went raw. I hated it at first but love the results and now I can butcher a chicken with no problem.

I am not too sure on kibbles you can try since the ingredients you said she was allergic to, are in most pet foods.


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## cast71 (Sep 16, 2010)

Taste of the wild makes 2 formulas that are good for dogs with allergies. Pacific Stream Canine Formula contains fish and potatoes. Sierra Mountain Canine Formula contains lamb and potatoes. While the protein levels are low, I still think it's an excellent choice for dogs with allergies. I also think it's good as a rotational food, because it only has a single protein. This gives the dogs digestive system a rest and helps keep them from developing allergies.


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## saltydogs (Oct 31, 2010)

bishopthesheltie said:


> Annamaet does have corn in it, which you stated your dog was allergic to..
> 
> Honestly you could try feeding another bag of the food he for sure isn't allergic to, and then for one meal a day feed him raw chicken (like a quarter) to see if he reacts.
> 
> ...



Wrong Annamaet OPTION does not have corn in it and it would not matter anyway because if this dog has any allergy at all 90% chance its the meat protein.

Catfish Meal, Brown Rice, Venison Meal, Pearled Barley, Rolled Oats, Canola Oil, Millet, Dried Tomato Pomace, Flax Seed Meal, Lecithin, Salt, Calcium Carbonate, DL Methionine, L-Lysine, Potassium Chloride, Ascorbic Acid, Propionic Acid, Vitamin E Supplement, Biotin, Niacin Supplement, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Vitamin A Acetate, Riboflavin Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Thiamine Mononitrate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Citric Acid, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Folic Acid, Potassium Chloride, Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Sulfate, Zinc Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Zinc Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Manganese Sulfate, Manganese Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Manganous Oxide, Sodium Selenite, Calcium Iodate

Do you see corn in there?


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Dogs with allergies need a diet that is as limited ingredient as possible. This means home prepared diets are ideal, raw being the best option. That way you know exactly what your dog is ingesting. With kibbles there are so many ingredients that it's impossible to place blame on any single one ingredient. Also, it takes a long time for allergy symptoms to go away. Patience and persistence is needed when figuring out what diet works best for your particular dog. While I'm not one to usually condone suggesting raw in the kibble section, I will say that I have the upmost confidence that your dog will be symptom free (or close to it) when switched to a prey model raw style of feeding. Hope this helps and good luck. 

Start reading here if you're really interested in switching to raw, it may give you the confidence to switch:

http://dogfoodchat.com/forum/raw-feeding/2265-success-stories.html


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## mhconrad (Nov 1, 2010)

I have given him a raw beef bone, uncooked...but only once. He was covered in sores on his face and paws, and they soon became itchy, nasty sores that bleed. Beef is definately a no go with him. I am almost afraid to even try the ckicken raw.

After doing some looking yesterday I went ahead and bought a small bag of Acana Pacifica for him to try. Is actually cheaper than the Natural Balance I was getting and it seemed overall a better food. I will still give some thought to the raw but am definately ready to make that jump yet.


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## josh83 (Oct 24, 2010)

You may find this helpful: Best Hypoallergenic Dog Foods


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## Unosmom (May 3, 2009)

I would suggest one of the following:

1) Wellness core ocean Pet Food Online | Dog & Cat Supplies & Products | PetFoodDirect.com has free shipping on wellness. 

2) Blue buffalo wilderness salmon

3) Natures Variety Instinct salmon or rabbit

4)Annamaet Aqualuk grain free

5) EVO Herring and salmon

6) Pinnacle duck and potato (not grain free, but low allergen food)


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## saltydogs (Oct 31, 2010)

Unosmom said:


> I would suggest one of the following:
> 
> 1) Wellness core ocean Pet Food Online | Dog & Cat Supplies & Products | PetFoodDirect.com has free shipping on wellness.
> 
> ...


The Annamaet formula is the best of that list without a doubt. I know some folks that actually were involved in the testing.


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## buddy97 (Mar 29, 2010)

saltydogs said:


> The Annamaet formula is the best of that list without a doubt. I know some folks that actually were involved in the testing.


id respectfully disagree. id much prefer the EVO, Instinct, or Core over the Annamaet. however, i do like the looks of the Manitok as it is one of the very few grainless foods ive seen with no chicken or salmon.


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## saltydogs (Oct 31, 2010)

buddy97 said:


> id respectfully disagree. id much prefer the EVO, Instinct, or Core over the Annamaet. however, i do like the looks of the Manitok as it is one of the very few grainless foods ive seen with no chicken or salmon.


The expertise of the manufacturer is beyond reproach, besides we are talking about companion animals here. No companion animal really needs whats in EVO. Instinct & Core are second rate.

So the Annamaet product is better suited to that type of animal.


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## buddy97 (Mar 29, 2010)

saltydogs said:


> The expertise of the manufacturer is beyond reproach, besides we are talking about companion animals here. No companion animal really needs whats in EVO. Instinct & Core are second rate.
> 
> So the Annamaet product is better suited to that type of animal.


thanks for your opinion on annamaet.


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

Good choice on the Acana, I've not tried the Pacifica but have used the Grasslands on the rescues regularly. Don't go off the guidelines of how much to feed on the side of the bag as they are too much. If after a few weeks you see improvement on the Acana, I would then add a salmon oil cap to the diet to help with the skin and coat. Good Luck!


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