# Would you continue feeding a food if....



## Jacksons Mom (Jun 13, 2010)

.... the dog absolutely LOVES it, is doing well in all regards (nice weight, nice shiny coat, no eye goop, great energy, etc) buuttt poop is always a *bit* soft.

Jackson just finished a small bag of Fromm Beef. I cannot believe how much he still loves it - he never has eaten a dry food the moment I pour it in his bowl like he has this one. He's been doing tricks for it STILL. So yeah needless to say he reallllyyy loves it. He looks great too. but I know some things you can't really tell after a 4lb bag of food anyways... but typically with Jackson, I can tell when a food is going to do well with him pretty quickly. There's been other foods we've switched cold turkey to and within a day or two, poops are where they are going to be if you know what I mean.

But, on this food, his poops are still a bit soft. Not runny at all, and formed, but just ... more soft and larger. Not any more frequent tho, typically 3x a day. When he was eating Acana lamb & apple and duck & pear, they were always much harder (but not TOO hard).

Sooo I was unsure if I should feed a food a bit higher in fiber, or continue on the Fromm Beef and maybe add some kind of probiotic or something like this?: Geneflora for Pets | Probiotic Formula | Probiotic Nutrition

So I bought a bag of Pure Vita Bison grain-free on Friday and almost immediately, his stool was harder and smaller. Nothing else changed- still getting same treats and canned food. 

At first I thought it was flax seed but the Pure Vita has flaxseed in it too. The fiber is much higher, though (8.5% vs 3.5%) but then again, he had hard stools on Acana Duck & Pear too and that was like 3.5% fiber too, but single meat source ingredient like Pure Vita. So maybe he's just better off with more simple foods.

I dunno *shrugs* like I said... he's never done full-out "BAD" on ANY dry food. It's always just little things I notice. On Fromm, he did great with everything but just had the softer poo.

I feel bad though because he LOVED the Fromm. He has yet to eat the Pure Vita dry and doesn't seem to really like it all, I have to mix his meals with wet food. Which is fine, whatever, but I did like seeing him thoroughly enjoy his food, so much he was willing to do tricks for it!

I also like Fromm better as a company. Would you feed the Fromm, and maybe add some sort of probiotic or something... or feed a food he doesn't even seem to like for harder stools? Like I said, it's not like it's watery or diarrhea, just soft-ish...


----------



## _unoriginal (Apr 8, 2012)

Both of my dogs always liked whatever kibble they were fed. My one currently kibble-fed dog has always had issues with allergies. His allergies were basically escalating over time. He would be fine on one kibble until he wasn't anymore. He then would need to be switched to something new with more restrictions as far as what ingredients we could allow. With his issues, we sacrifice hard poops for a rash-free dog. His poops are formed, but like your experience, they're not as solid as they could be. He is otherwise healthy and doing very well on his current kibble. He might have harder poops on a different brand but he's doing well right now and I'd just as soon leave well-enough alone with him.

You could try adding a probiotic, it certainly won't hurt. It might even help, even if you don't notice the differences.


----------



## Georgiapeach (Jan 24, 2011)

You could try a different Fromm variety. Maybe the beef protein is the problem. Dempsey was on a beef based kibble (Victor's All Life Stages) when we adopted him, but his poos were soft. This is why we transitioned him to Earthborn Coastal Catch (not too thrilled with it either - lots of poos, although fairly firm). You could try a probiotic. I'm giving Dempsey one right now.


----------



## Jacksons Mom (Jun 13, 2010)

It seems all the Fromm formulas give Jackson softer poo... from what we've tried. I had finally decided maybe it was chicken causing the small issue, and since beef was the only one without, thought it would work... but I'm not sure chicken is an issue. He can eat chicken with no problems in his canned food (Weruva) as well as chicken breast etc. It's not only Fromm though, there's been other foods that have caused larger/softer poo (acana chicken & burbank potato come to mind). I dunno, it's odd. Like I said, it's not a huge deal either way, he doesn't seem to have any other big issues. And he always has soft poo or an extra poo on our walks or after a lot of exercise, so I've just chalked it up to normal. Like I said, it's not even loose or anything, just a bit softer. Like, even on a food like Pure Vita, where his stools are a lot harder and smaller... if we stay at home, he'll have probably 2 poos a day, both hard and formed. If we go on a walk, in addition to the two hard poos at home, he'll have one or two soft poos on a long walk lol. He's always done that though... even when he was on Acana grain-free for over a year. But yeah on the Fromm Beef his poos were soft even when at home. Ha, sorry for all the poo talk.

So I don't know, maybe a probiotic wouldn't be a bad idea.


----------



## Jacksons Mom (Jun 13, 2010)

_unoriginal said:


> Both of my dogs always liked whatever kibble they were fed. My one currently kibble-fed dog has always had issues with allergies. His allergies were basically escalating over time. He would be fine on one kibble until he wasn't anymore. He then would need to be switched to something new with more restrictions as far as what ingredients we could allow. With his issues, we sacrifice hard poops for a rash-free dog. His poops are formed, but like your experience, they're not as solid as they could be. He is otherwise healthy and doing very well on his current kibble. He might have harder poops on a different brand but he's doing well right now and I'd just as soon leave well-enough alone with him.
> 
> You could try adding a probiotic, it certainly won't hurt. It might even help, even if you don't notice the differences.


Thanks! Sounds like you've got your fair share of issues. :\ 

Luckily, like I said, Jackson doesn't have any *major* problems that are concerning in any way.

So I don't know, I just feel guilty because he hates the food, and he looooveeeddd his Fromm so much! lol

In general, I wouldn't say he's a super sensitive guy or has much stomach upset. He can eat a lot of things with no tummy issues. I don't really think he has any kind of allergies - maybe just a slight intolerance to some stuff.

And he's pretty active so I didn't want him on a low protein/low fat food (which most 'simple' formulas are).


----------



## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

I would worry about the effects on his anal glands being able to express naturally. I am sure your groomer expresses them (in theory). Still though, that would concern me.


----------



## Losech (Jul 10, 2012)

Try giving a probiotic (I get human-grade stuff from the grocery) and/or a prebiotic (I use ground roasted chicory root, get it at my local hippie herb shop) and see if that improves things. Pre and probiotics are good for the immune system, but I am wary of foods that require their use to keep things stable. If there is improvement with the digestive aids, try tapering them off and see if it returns to the previous state. If so, I'd probably switch to a food that digests better without the additions.

I also prefer higher-protein formulas. My dog has got knee issues, despite that he's pretty active, so he's gotta be kept lean and muscular. I have noticed that foods with protien levels lower than 30% cause him to lose muscle mass and gain fat, which I don't want, so I try to stay above 30%.
My Shiba's got a sensitive stomach, digestive issues are almost normal with him. I've got a long list of banned foods. However, I have found various foods that he can tolerate and digest well. If something doesn't work, I feed it to the other two dogs (you could donate to a shelter/needy friend) and move on to something else. So far I've had good luck with Nature's Variety, EVO, Before Grain (discontinued, but Merrick's newer foods are very similar) and the Fromm grain-frees.


----------



## Jacksons Mom (Jun 13, 2010)

Losech said:


> Try giving a probiotic (I get human-grade stuff from the grocery) and/or a prebiotic (I use ground roasted chicory root, get it at my local hippie herb shop) and see if that improves things. Pre and probiotics are good for the immune system, but I am wary of foods that require their use to keep things stable. If there is improvement with the digestive aids, try tapering them off and see if it returns to the previous state. If so, I'd probably switch to a food that digests better without the additions.
> 
> I also prefer higher-protein formulas. My dog has got knee issues, despite that he's pretty active, so he's gotta be kept lean and muscular. I have noticed that foods with protien levels lower than 30% cause him to lose muscle mass and gain fat, which I don't want, so I try to stay above 30%.
> My Shiba's got a sensitive stomach, digestive issues are almost normal with him. I've got a long list of banned foods. However, I have found various foods that he can tolerate and digest well. If something doesn't work, I feed it to the other two dogs (you could donate to a shelter/needy friend) and move on to something else. So far I've had good luck with Nature's Variety, EVO, Before Grain (discontinued, but Merrick's newer foods are very similar) and the Fromm grain-frees.


Yeah I was thinking about that too.... didn't really want to give them every day.

At the moment, things are fine. His stool is very hard and small. So there's really nothing to "improve". He's been on Pure Vita Bison for 3 days. But he HATES the food. :\ I'd have to put him back on Fromm... see if the soft stool comes back and then try a probiotic to see if there is a difference.

I guess I am just trying to decide if I should stick out the whole 5lb bag of Pure Vita and keep mixing it with yummy things to get him to eat it... or return the bag while I still can (haven't used much of it) for Fromm. I just feel like it's kind of a lot of peas. But the ash isn't incredibly high (7.29%) so I have faith that the meat is in there, and the protein is at 27% which seems to be a perfect number for Jackson.


----------



## Jacksons Mom (Jun 13, 2010)

Sprocket said:


> I would worry about the effects on his anal glands being able to express naturally. I am sure your groomer expresses them (in theory). Still though, that would concern me.



I wondered about this too. He does get them done by the groomer every 8-10 weeks. But I want him to do it naturally.


----------



## shellbeme (Dec 8, 2010)

I haven't looked into this, but the woman at the pet food store we have here (it's a specialty store) said that Fromm has probiotics in it. Now, I haven't done any reading to see if that's true-but either way I do remember reading that probiotics are easy to destroy and usually go fast so even if they do add them it's hard telling if they are working by the time we get the bag. I have been trying nutrisource pure vita and the boys hate it. They only eat because they are starving and sometimes skip meals, I too was feeding fromm and the older one had tummy issues on it. Right now, on Pure Vita my little one is developing tear stains really bad.

We bought another bag of Fromm and we're going to use it again. I also stopped buying treats from the store and started making their treats instead, since I started doing that the older dog stopped having issues-but I switched foods at the same time so we'll see here if just the treats make the difference. I love the way my boys look on fromm too and I also love the company. As for the soft stool, when I first started feeding fromm, I noticed it took several months before they had firm stool, but it did eventually firm up. 

I check anal glands regularly. (So gross) 

Anyway I totally understand the situation!


----------



## Shamrockmommy (Sep 10, 2009)

I am a big fan of Fromm for various reasons. 2 of my girls' stools are fine, firm and formed, typically. My PWD has had tummy issues, and does well on Fromm. Her stools are formed but soft, and I'm ok with that for now, because everything else for her looks amazing. 
I do give her digestive enzymes a few times a week, as she's a food-hound and often steals scraps of my kids' foods. 

I keep thinking I might find something "better" but then again, I keep ending up with Fromm, <shrugs>. 

Wasn't very helpful LOL


----------



## Jacksons Mom (Jun 13, 2010)

shellbeme said:


> I haven't looked into this, but the woman at the pet food store we have here (it's a specialty store) said that Fromm has probiotics in it. Now, I haven't done any reading to see if that's true-but either way I do remember reading that probiotics are easy to destroy and usually go fast so even if they do add them it's hard telling if they are working by the time we get the bag. I have been trying nutrisource pure vita and the boys hate it. They only eat because they are starving and sometimes skip meals, I too was feeding fromm and the older one had tummy issues on it. Right now, on Pure Vita my little one is developing tear stains really bad.
> 
> We bought another bag of Fromm and we're going to use it again. I also stopped buying treats from the store and started making their treats instead, since I started doing that the older dog stopped having issues-but I switched foods at the same time so we'll see here if just the treats make the difference. I love the way my boys look on fromm too and I also love the company. As for the soft stool, when I first started feeding fromm, I noticed it took several months before they had firm stool, but it did eventually firm up.
> 
> ...


Wow, sounds like the same kind of situation! 

I mean he seriously hated it. To be honest, I thought it smelled not so good either. Fromm just smells so fresh, and the Pure Vita was just... blah.

Well, I'm a dork and just went to the store and returned the Pure Vita (which he didn't eat for breakfast) for Fromm. We got Game Bird this time, since that's a formula we haven't tried yet. He freakin' started going crazy in the car smelling it, etc... he seriously LOVES Fromm. lol. 

So we'll give this a go. I may order some kind of probiotic or something for him... if a bit softer stool is the most of our worries yet he looovess his food and does well in all other aspects... I'm not sure it's a huge deal. I'll work on maybe giving him some more fiber somehow in his diet, or even yogurt in his Kong (that's got probiotics right?) And I'll give it more than one 4lb bag too.


----------



## shellbeme (Dec 8, 2010)

LOL I got the salmon pure vita, it smells VERY fishy, I don't think it's bad or anything but I thought it smelled kinda gross. Jackson is lucky  I make my boys suffer even if they don't like the food, I just wanted to see if it would work out, but honestly, like you, I want them to enjoy what they are eating, and they do enjoy fromm. My husband pointed out, our older maltese is also getting eye goobers since the switch to nutrisource, just not at quite the same level as the little one. 

I think the yogurt in the kong is a brilliant idea, and in fact I might steal that from you for my two


----------



## Jacksons Mom (Jun 13, 2010)

shellbeme said:


> LOL I got the salmon pure vita, it smells VERY fishy, I don't think it's bad or anything but I thought it smelled kinda gross. Jackson is lucky  I make my boys suffer even if they don't like the food, I just wanted to see if it would work out, but honestly, like you, I want them to enjoy what they are eating, and they do enjoy fromm. My husband pointed out, our older maltese is also getting eye goobers since the switch to nutrisource, just not at quite the same level as the little one.
> 
> I think the yogurt in the kong is a brilliant idea, and in fact I might steal that from you for my two


Jax loves it. I put the kong with a bit of kibble and then some plain non fat yogurt frozen.


----------



## monster'sdad (Jul 29, 2012)

Use a food with beet pulp and less peas and your soft poop problems will go away. The foods you mentioned are full of peas and water soluble fiber. However, dog naturally vacate their bowels when they are out for a walk or run around, or get excited. It is a natural thing. Most times they vacate before all the water has been asborbed from the stool.

Enzymes and probiotics wont help.


----------



## Jacksons Mom (Jun 13, 2010)

monster'sdad said:


> Use a food with beet pulp and less peas and your soft poop problems will go away. The foods you mentioned are full of peas and water soluble fiber. However, dog naturally vacate their bowels when they are out for a walk or run around, or get excited. It is a natural thing. Most times they vacate before all the water has been asborbed from the stool.
> 
> Enzymes and probiotics wont help.


Yeah but how does that explain the hard normal small stools on Pure Vita Bison, which is full of peas?

The store I exchanged the pure vita for the Fromm for only have the grain-free Fromms or else I would've given one of their grain inclusives a go.


----------



## imthemonkey (Aug 8, 2011)

Jacksons Mom said:


> Yeah but how does that explain the hard normal small stools on Pure Vita Bison, which is full of peas?
> 
> The store I exchanged the pure vita for the Fromm for only have the grain-free Fromms or else I would've given one of their grain inclusives a go.


He's just trying to find a way to put down Fromm. That's what he does, he wants you to buy Dr Tims.

By the way, one of my dogs eats Fromm and she has small, firm, and odorless poops. Every dog is different though.


----------



## Jacksons Mom (Jun 13, 2010)

Well, I really like Fromm, don't have an issue with them as a company. Really respect them actually. I probably would never feed Dr Tims as its not available locally- nothing against it though. I do wish they had other options besides chicken based. 

Good news- his poo this morning was solid and hard! I did mix a bit of what I had left of the Pure Vita in. But there was actually more Fromm than Pure vita so hopefully it's a good sign. Like I said, its a new formula we've never tried before either (game bird) so who knows!


----------



## Georgiapeach (Jan 24, 2011)

Jacksons Mom said:


> It seems all the Fromm formulas give Jackson softer poo... from what we've tried. I had finally decided maybe it was chicken causing the small issue, and since beef was the only one without, thought it would work... but I'm not sure chicken is an issue. He can eat chicken with no problems in his canned food (Weruva) as well as chicken breast etc. It's not only Fromm though, there's been other foods that have caused larger/softer poo (acana chicken & burbank potato come to mind). I dunno, it's odd. Like I said, it's not a huge deal either way, he doesn't seem to have any other big issues. And he always has soft poo or an extra poo on our walks or after a lot of exercise, so I've just chalked it up to normal. Like I said, it's not even loose or anything, just a bit softer. Like, even on a food like Pure Vita, where his stools are a lot harder and smaller... if we stay at home, he'll have probably 2 poos a day, both hard and formed. If we go on a walk, in addition to the two hard poos at home, he'll have one or two soft poos on a long walk lol. He's always done that though... even when he was on Acana grain-free for over a year. But yeah on the Fromm Beef his poos were soft even when at home. Ha, sorry for all the poo talk.
> 
> So I don't know, maybe a probiotic wouldn't be a bad idea.


Sounds like Pure Vita works well for him. The soft poos on walks is normal - excited pooing, I call it. My boxer will sometimes do it, too, even if he's JUST pooed in my yard before the walk. Excercise/excitement gets things movin'!


----------



## InkedMarie (Sep 9, 2011)

If you want to feed Fromm, I'd try the probiotic. My Ginger used to have soft stools but also very frequent; I changed her dry food (she also eats Darwin's) and big improvement, even with probiotics. Boone's soft stools did firm up with using Digest-All-Plus


----------

