# Dog Park Vaccine Dilemma



## BrownieM (Aug 30, 2010)

I am having a big dilemma! Finally, a dog park is opening down the street from my house. Less than 3 minutes away. This dog park, however, will require visitors to be residents in that town (which I am) and pay a very small fee annually, and dogs must be vaccinated for Rabies and Bordetella and I must show proof of spay/neuter. (This means that Tiger would not be able to use the dog park, as he is, and will remain, intact, barring health issues that void him from being used in the future.)

I am having a difficult time with this because I dislike bacterial vaccines such as Lepto and Bordetella and choose not to vaccinate my dogs for them. However, having a dog park right down the street that I could potentially visit daily, even on a tight schedule when I am teaching, is a wonderful thing for my dogs. Currently I drive about 20-25 minutes to get to a free, public dog park that does not require proof of vaccinations, and that does allow intact male dogs (only bitches in heat are prohibited, which, IMO, is more fair than restricting intact dogs.) Millie and Henry, and even Tiger, have a BLAST at these parks, get along with everyone, are very socially conscious, play well, etc. They get such great exercise at dog parks that I cannot give them on our regular leashed walks. It would be so convenient to be able to attend the dog park with Henry and Millie (Tiger would have to stay home, as I said before.)

What would you do? Advice? Opinions? 

I just hate to vaccinate them for Bordetella. It is hard for me to do something that I know is not in the best interest of my dogs' health...But, I just keep wondering if the happiness and exercise from the dog park would outweigh that.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

i think you will sleep better at night, knowing you stuck to your convictions and didn't trade them in for convenience.


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## BrownieM (Aug 30, 2010)

magicre said:


> i think you will sleep better at night, knowing you stuck to your convictions and didn't trade them in for convenience.


It is not simply a matter of convenience...it is a matter of being able to provide exercise and happiness for my dogs, which also leads to good health. I cannot physically drive an hour total every day for my dogs to run and play at the dog park, nor can I afford the gas. Now that I am teaching again, I probably have the time to drive once every other weekend. In reality, last year, while I was teaching, I took them maybe once a month. It is a very long drive to do when busy, or in iffy weather. With the closer dog park, I can physically take the time to take them probably most evenings. I can even go when it snows, because I don't have to worry about driving so far in the icy/snowy weather. This is a huge difference in the amount of intense exercise my dogs are getting and, IMO, exercise is the gateway to health. Thoughts?

I will sleep better at night knowing that I did the right thing. I just don't know what the right thing is. Is it better to take an opportunity to dramatically increase their off-leash exercise and socialization or do I restrict them because I don't want to give the Bordetella vaccine?


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

so, you would have to neuter or keep tiger away from the dog park and the other two would require bordatella?

I think, under those circumstances, health wins out because you are right. exercise is the gateway to health. the park is so close and you'd be able to take two out of three dogs there.

i would get the bordatella and sleep better at night, knowing you made a choice that, whilst not perfect, is doable because now henry and millie can get the exercise they need more often.

then again, i don't have the bias many have against bordatella...if, as an example, i found a great boarding place that would feed my dogs raw food and care for them in a loving way whilst i travelled....and the only hiccup is i have to prove a bordatella, i would get them the bordatella.


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## BrownieM (Aug 30, 2010)

magicre said:


> so, you would have to neuter or keep tiger away from the dog park and the other two would require bordatella?
> 
> I think, under those circumstances, health wins out because you are right. exercise is the gateway to health. the park is so close and you'd be able to take two out of three dogs there.
> 
> ...


Magicre - I am right there with you on the boarding kennel. The kennel I have taken my dogs to in the past that feeds raw to my dogs does require bordetella. They also offer a wonderful doggie daycare, which I haven't been able to take Millie and Henry to since they don't have Bordetella. If I just go ahead and do the Bordetella, I can take them to doggie daycare once a week or so, too, which they love.

I don't like Bordetella, like I said, but I am willing to give the vaccine if my dogs will benefit significantly from the additional exercise they will get. 

Tiger won't be neutered anytime soon, so, yes, I will have to keep him home from the closer dog park, which is a bummer... But, I guess, what can I do?? :/


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## Eswmom (Jul 24, 2011)

We go to a doggy day care we love. They know we are not neutering matzah for year, suddenly, the other day the owner mentions we need to fix him....yeah he stays home now and a dog walker comes to excecise him while we work. Shame but I have no need to make a concession of that nature. I don't know what we will do about boarding.....I for one am not a fan of dog parks, find the ne here tends to ave aggressive owners too often.


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## BrownieM (Aug 30, 2010)

I have been lucky and haven't had too bad of problems at dog parks. Well, yes, I do encounter very stupid people and I usually just leave at that point. Thankfully, my dogs are pretty socially aware and they tend to gravitate AWAY from tension/aggressive dogs.


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## Porphyria (Jul 13, 2011)

Oh you found out the info? I didn't have time to go check it out this week. Too bad they require bordatella. I gave Zephyr his bordatella vaccine last year because I started taking him to a day care that requires it. But they haven't even mentioned vaccines since his first visit, so I was planning on foregoing the vaccine in the future. But I guess I'll have to reconsider that plan; I really love the idea of being able to take him to the park without having to set side an entire afternoon to do so.


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## schtuffy (May 17, 2010)

Yea..I registered Louis with the county, and all that good ol' legal stuff when I got him, because I wanted to be a law abiding dog owner etc. etc. In our area, you also have to be registered to use the dog park. Then later I realized it meant mandatory rabies shots....ahh, too late. 

I feel like Bordatella isn't _that_ terrible....at least not as bad as some of the other vaccines. If it truly makes you unhappy, I would rather not use the dog park, despite the convenience. What about a regular park for people? I know they can't be off leash, but sometimes dog parks can get pretty nasty depending on how it's maintained. How about you just wait and see, you could either get the Bordatella, use the park for a little bit to see if it's worth it...and if not, just simply don't renew their vaccinations? Or wait until it's built and go check it out without the dogs to see if it's worth all this mulling over? Just my thoughts :tongue:


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## BrownieM (Aug 30, 2010)

schtuffy said:


> Yea..I registered Louis with the county, and all that good ol' legal stuff when I got him, because I wanted to be a law abiding dog owner etc. etc. In our area, you also have to be registered to use the dog park. Then later I realized it meant mandatory rabies shots....ahh, too late.
> 
> I feel like Bordatella isn't _that_ terrible....at least not as bad as some of the other vaccines. If it truly makes you unhappy, I would rather not use the dog park, despite the convenience. What about a regular park for people? I know they can't be off leash, but sometimes dog parks can get pretty nasty depending on how it's maintained. How about you just wait and see, you could either get the Bordatella, use the park for a little bit to see if it's worth it...and if not, just simply don't renew their vaccinations? Or wait until it's built and go check it out without the dogs to see if it's worth all this mulling over? Just my thoughts :tongue:


Well, it opens in a few weeks and from the description it sounds pretty nice. Two acres of land for them to run! 

Regular parks don't provide the same benefit...what I am looking for is off leash playing and running. I can take them for a walk at any park, in my own subdivision, and I do this daily, but it just isn't the same exercise as that all-out exertion of racing around an off-leash park. I love to see them huff and puff use those muscles when they run. 

I'm really not too worried about having incidents at the dog park. At every other dog park I've been to, is easy enough to find times to go where there are not tons of people. Regardless, like I said, if there is an aggressive dog, I can simply leave and come back another time. No big deal.

Based on the area where this park has been built, I just don't see them putting in a crappy park. Most of the dog parks I see that I am not impressed with are in the city where land is expensive and the parks are so tiny. This is still well in the county, a very NICE part of the county, and I have high expectations.

If I do end up vaccinating them for Bordetella, I have no plans to revaccinate unless I run into the same thing again. Chances are, I'll be moving away from this little area in about 6 months to a year. Hopefully wherever I end up there will be a dog park that doesn't require bordetella!


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

I get my dogs the shots to go to the park. But my park allows intact dogs. 

in my opinion, it's ridiculous to require those shots - people let their friends bring dogs, people get new dogs and bring them, people dump dogs inside the fence regularly - they aren't protecting dogs from anything by requiring those vaccinations.


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## BrownieM (Aug 30, 2010)

I am just happy they don't require DHPP!


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

I am probably looking for trouble but I never go to dog parks. The few times I have gone there are such dumb people not watching their dogs that I have to leave anyway. I feel like I have spent too much time working with my dogs on temperment and behavior to have them mauled or learn to fight at a dog park. Just my opinion.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Liz said:


> I am probably looking for trouble but I never go to dog parks. The few times I have gone there are such dumb people not watching their dogs that I have to leave anyway. I feel like I have spent too much time working with my dogs on temperment and behavior to have them mauled or learn to fight at a dog park. Just my opinion.


I think dog parks have different personalities - mine is a newer dog park, I haven't seen more than 10-12 dogs at a time, and if someone brings in a dog that isn't getting along they have a "bad dog" area they can go to and be isolated from the rest of the dogs.

i have heard another dog park nearby regularly has 50-more dogs in it, is very crowded, and seems to have alot of dog fights.

My dog enjoys it - although he is older and doesn't run like crazy with the other dogs, he enjoys just being in the midst of them and hanging out. Some people do seem to come to visit each other, but alot don't.


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## minnieme (Jul 6, 2011)

Liz said:


> I am probably looking for trouble but I never go to dog parks. The few times I have gone there are such dumb people not watching their dogs that I have to leave anyway. I feel like I have spent too much time working with my dogs on temperment and behavior to have them mauled or learn to fight at a dog park. Just my opinion.


I agree, dog parks can be pretty crappy (and by that I mean really irresponsible dog owners with justifiably naughty dogs). But we're lucky to have a 100 acre dog park here....and when you go during non-peak hours, it's wonderful for a beautiful hike and the people are usually pretty well-versed in dog behavior/training. You really have to know where to go...... I guess I get caught up in how great dog parks are on occasion because we have many, many options here. That one's just my favorite.


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## malluver1005 (Nov 15, 2009)

minnieme said:


> But we're lucky to have a 100 acre dog park here


Wow...you would never see that here. There is a lot of land, but it's mostly being used for the construction of apartments/homes 

Is your park fenced in?


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

Liz said:


> I am probably looking for trouble but I never go to dog parks. The few times I have gone there are such dumb people not watching their dogs that I have to leave anyway. I feel like I have spent too much time working with my dogs on temperment and behavior to have them mauled or learn to fight at a dog park. Just my opinion.


TOTALLY agree!!!

When we met Leo's then owner and him at a dog park the other dogs there where wild, uncontrolled and just annoying!! Rhett and Brody didnt know what to think...and thankfully Leo was NOT that way!!

We go to our "dog park" down here....its the old elementary school that is no longer owned by the state/city but still has a TOTALLY fenced play area!LOL

Other wise when we HAVE gone to dog parks we choose a quiet corner and the boys, and what ever dogs we happen to be meeting, play right around us!:smile:


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## minnieme (Jul 6, 2011)

malluver1005 said:


> Wow...you would never see that here. There is a lot of land, but it's mostly being used for the construction of apartments/homes
> 
> Is your park fenced in?


Yup. So it's nice...because even if there's some god awful dog owner + dog, there's more than enough room to get away from 'em! (although it does get PACKED during peak hours)

I just think you have to do something with a dog.....either hiking, or actively playing ball or frisbee, or something....just to keep them busy. I never stand around and chat with people too long..... as long as Minnie is on the move and has a "project" so to speak, I feel like she's more likely to be good and emit those vibes to other dogs too.


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## malluver1005 (Nov 15, 2009)

minnieme said:


> Yup. So it's nice...because even if there's some god awful dog owner + dog, there's more than enough room to get away from 'em! (although it does get PACKED during peak hours)
> 
> I just think you have to do something with a dog.....either hiking, or actively playing ball or frisbee, or something....just to keep them busy. I never stand around and chat with people too long..... as long as Minnie is on the move and has a "project" so to speak, I feel like she's more likely to be good and emit those vibes to other dogs too.


I never stand and chat. EVER. 

I mean I'll say a few words here and there, like if someone asks something about Aspen, but I like to be focused on him all the time.


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## minnieme (Jul 6, 2011)

Such smart dog people here. Can we start our own elite dog park, please? :biggrin1:


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## BrownieM (Aug 30, 2010)

Liz said:


> I am probably looking for trouble but I never go to dog parks. The few times I have gone there are such dumb people not watching their dogs that I have to leave anyway. I feel like I have spent too much time working with my dogs on temperament and behavior to have them mauled or learn to fight at a dog park. Just my opinion.


I guess I am lucky that I have not had this situation. I would not expose my dog to a situation that was not healthy for them. When I go to the dog park, there are typically between 1 and 5 other dogs. Sometimes I am the only one there. I went the other day and there were a total of 5 or 6 dogs at once, 2 of them being mine, and it felt so crowded! This was a pretty large dog park with lots of room for everybody, but I am just not used to so many people being at the park.

Maybe people are just more respectful where I live. The biggest issues I have had at a dog park are people being dumb as rocks and leaving their prong collar on, people bringing a dog in and being afraid to take it off the leash (drawing all of the dogs toward it, of course) and the occasional aggressive dog. Sometimes there is a shy dog or an annoying dog, but it does not bother mine. Mine stay away from dogs that they don't mesh well with. My dogs also spend a good amount of time running around on their own. 

If I notice my dog not getting along with another dog, I just leave. I leave before I even can begin to point fingers or call another dog aggressive. I just go and don't worry about it. 

Some of the dumb people that I have witnessed at dog parks make me want to slam my head on a wall, but they have not been situations that I felt put my dogs at risk. I would say that the majority of the people I meet at the dog park are very conscientious people who also want the dog park to remain a safe place. I would not risk my dogs' well-being and I am fortunate to have dog parks that provide a healthy opportunity for my dogs to exercise and socialize. It is unfortunate that not all parks are like this. 

My dogs have had only positive experiences at the dog park and it is truly one of their favorite places to go. They have never gotten in a "fight" and I have never seen a real fight break out. I have seen some dogs have a disagreement, but it is usually just your growl, snarl and then the dogs leave each other alone. Nothing that my own dogs don't do to each other sometimes.

I do not feel that I have had to work at my dogs' temperament. They came to me with excellent temperaments and their behavior has not been difficult to shape. Sure, they could be ruined by bad situations, but they have not encountered bad situations. I find it easy enough to keep them safe at the dog parks. 

My dogs tend to keep a safe distance from others until they get a good sense of them. I think this helps keep things neutral. I see some dogs intimidate other dogs by running up to them, etc. If mine even see something like this happening amongst other dogs, they tend to stand on the sidelines.

I also don't believe that all dogs should go to dog parks. Only those who can effectively read other dogs' social cues and are not aggressive and enjoy the company of other dogs should go to dog parks. IMO it is not a place to socialize unsocialized dogs, to work on behavior, etc. 

So, in other words, Liz, I think that it is unfortunate that you do not have a dog park where you can safely take your dog. With the right setup, people and dogs, a dog park can be such a great, healthy, fun place for dogs. However, if people do not follow common sense, bring aggressive dogs and ignore rules, dog parks can be unsafe places for dogs. If only everyone knew what all of us know about dogs....:biggrin:


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## Porphyria (Jul 13, 2011)

I only had one bad dog park experience. But all of the good ones have made up for the bad one. I've seen a couple "scuffles"break out between other dogs, but never anything serious. I agree about people refusing to let their dogs off leash, and will add people who carry their dogs and/or let them sit on the benches with them, and people who violate the"no children under eight" rule to my my list of pet peeves. Once I was at the park with my mom's collie and someone brought in an INFANT in a stroller. The collie went over and sniffed the baby, and the mother freaked out. What do you expect when you bring a baby to a dog park? But aside from the few people who violate the rules or bring a dog that had no businesses at the dog park, I've always found it enjoyable. Most people follow the rules though, so I think it's worth it, and Zephyr really loves to go.


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## minnieme (Jul 6, 2011)

Long before we got Minnie, we had heard that a mastiff had killed a chihuahua in a certain dog park. I don't know what fate found that mastiff... but I do know that we stay away from that park. It's in a convenient location, but it attracts a lot of uneducated people it seems..who just want to "drop their dogs off" so to speak and stand around and gossip. The parks that are hard to get to really are the gems around here....fortunately, that 100 acre one is one of them. The smaller the park the more problems I've seen. Also, the more central the location.

But yes, Minnie does love the dog park and has very appropriate play....though I've kept my eye on all dog-dog interactions as of late...since she was recently attacked by her husky friend over some food. We're working very hard to mitigate any issues that could arise because of this.


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

Yes, it would be lovely to have a nice dog park but at least around here people seem oblivious to their dog's behavior. We arrange play dates, we pet sit alot and we have a lot of dogs so they do not lack for socialization. We also have some fields that are fenced so they can run around there. Plus we have a decent sized property. I don't think they miss out on much. I also agree not all dogs should go to dog parks. I have a very dominant female and she would never go to a dog park but my others are all very easy going. You have to know your dog and so many people don't. Oh, well maybe one day we will get a nice park.


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## BrownieM (Aug 30, 2010)

Liz said:


> Yes, it would be lovely to have a nice dog park but at least around here people seem oblivious to their dog's behavior. We arrange play dates, we pet sit alot and we have a lot of dogs so they do not lack for socialization. We also have some fields that are fenced so they can run around there. Plus we have a decent sized property. I don't think they miss out on much. I also agree not all dogs should go to dog parks. I have a very dominant female and she would never go to a dog park but my others are all very easy going. You have to know your dog and so many people don't. Oh, well maybe one day we will get a nice park.


It sounds like you have other good opportunities for running around free, though! :smile:


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## chowder (Sep 7, 2008)

I have never actually been to a dog park. Rocky is very scared of overly 'bouncy' hyperactive big dogs. They actually scare the stuffing out of him and he hides behind me. Probably because the very first one he every met started humping him like crazy. Shade is great with Rocky but he can be a dominant personality with other big dogs and I think he would probably try to defend Rocky if he saw that Rocky was scared.

Both of them are actually terrific with little dogs but I sincerely doubt that they'd let my two big boys just play in the little dog area!


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