# Vet doesn't recommend Orijen or Acana



## rmorrison1

I have a 3.5 month old Bullmastiff, I started him off on Eukanuba believing it was a high quality food but then I started to research dog foods online and the common consensus was that Eukanuba is junk and Orijen/Acana is high quality food. I switched my puppy over to Orijen but it gave him loose stools and sometimes full blown diarrhea. I have now switched him to Acana and will see how that goes. Today I went to the vet for vaccinations and told her the whole food story and she said that in her opinion Orijen and Acana were low quality foods and Eukanuba and Science Diet were both superior. She said that she isn't a dog nutritionist but has attended many seminars and is in no way affiliated to any dog food company. So I said that I had researched this online and it was widely believed that Orijen and Acana are far superior foods. Her response was that most of the reviews online are made by "paid off" people and most people do not understand how to read dog food ingredients. This sounds highly suspect to me, what do you guys think?


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## bernadettelevis

I think she's wrong and that she doesn't know how to read ingredients or maybe she really believes that all this crap im Eukanuba and science diet ist great for dogs. Either way, she is wrong.

Stick with orijen or acana and take it slow when transitioning. Maybe you are feeding your puppy too much?? Remember with high quality foods you do not need to feed as much as with eukanuba for example.


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## Cliffdog

The only "paid off" people in this situation are the people hosting the seminars your vet attended. I'm willing to bet that ever single one was funded by either Science Diet or Purina. These companies dominate the pet food market for one reason: marketing. They spend most of their money lying to vets and the general public, convincing people that their goods were full of meat and fresh veggies. FACT: most vets are given kickbacks to sell/promote Hill's food, aka Science and Prescription Diets. Half of these vets, don't even know what's IN the food! Not long ago I saw a vet site with a page on diet. It said not to feed did that was predominantly corn- and recommended SCIENCE DIET! Funny because corn is the FIRST INGREDIENT!

First five ingredients in Science Diet Adult Large Breed:
Whole grain corn, chicken by-product meal, soybean meal, animal fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), soybean oil

First five ingredients in Acana Grasslands:
Boneless lamb, lamb meal, salmon meal, herring meal, russet potato

Which sounds better to you?


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## Jenny

rmorrison1 said:


> in her opinion Orijen and Acana were low quality foods and Eukanuba and Science Diet were both superior.


Did she explain why Orijen and Acana are low quality foods? And why Eukanuba and SD are better? Does she sell Eukanuba or SD?

I would never feed my dogs Eukanuba or SD. Just read the ingredients... I've been very happy with Acana, great food!


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## xellil

What? WHAT????? 

What is she selling in her waiting room? if she sells prescription dog food, she is "paid off" for sure. And i would bet it's Science Diet.


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## Makovach

Wow. This sounds alot to me like the pot calling the kettle black type ordeal. Everything I've ever been told/read/researched and told by a few vets is that the things i think are "crap" in kibble, ARE. And vets have told me they get a percentage to reccomend those foods, and alot of people fall for it and thats why they push it. I was also told that the segment of "nutrition" they get in school is basicly a siminar about why to push this food more than what should be in it. I would ignore it and stick with the acana/orjin. Maybe try mixing the food with the old food until your pup is adjusted well? Good luck.


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## DogLuver

It is so sad and frustrating that there is this extreme confusion with dog food. I'm not a professional dog nutritionist, but I've done my fair share of research, and I'm not saying just the opinions of people on this forum (though it has been a pretty good resource). I try to keep a very open mind, and not listen to bias opinions of people who are just in favor because other people are too. I've fed Orijen and Acana to my dogs with great results, I've seen friends and family switch their pets to Orijen and Acana with success and they'll never go back to the foods (Eukanuba, Purina) they were feeding prior. I've spoke with different trainers, a family that owns sled dogs/huskies, and even my vet, all who agree that Orijen and Acana are great foods.

My vet believes that Champion pet foods are a great choice. I actually left my last vet because I felt his knowledge was very narrow when it came to giant breed dogs (I had just adopted a Great Dane puppy, done a lot of research, and he didn't seem to know the different requirements a giant breed needed, so I went in search of a different vet), anyway my point here, that vet supported Science Diet and wanted to push it on me when my dogs had any type of ailment or itch it seemed "this will fix that, SCIENCE DIET!" I left. The vet I have now thinks Orijen is working great for my dogs, I didn't choose to stick with him solely on this, but he has a lot of knowledge when it came to Giant Breeds too so I trust his overall opinion. PLUS he told me that he sells Hills Prescription diet dog foods at their clinic, but he personally doesn't believe it's the best diet, he said "there are some situations where a dog does need a diet like Hills Prescription Diet, and it works well to fix certain ailments that dogs get, but it's not a life long diet, it's like a temporary medicine"...that really helped me understand, Science Diet has it's purpose, but it's not meant to be a diet. It's like getting an infection, and then receiving antibiotics, when the antibiotics are done, you don't go back and get more and take them for the rest of your life, it's temporary to fix a problem, THAT is how Science Diet should be used, not as an everyday diet. It's the same with doctors, some doctors take the approach of "you have Xproblem, this Xmedication I carry will fix it" instead of " you have Xproblem, if you eat more fruits and green vegetables that will fix your problem"...just different approaches, but I personally believe the second approach is more of a "natural health" way to do it.

I like to think of it this way. I'm not a "tree-hugger" but I do believe that there's so much going on in this world that people tend to forget where we came from and what is natural and healthy. Some people will argue that humans are capable of creating something BETTER THAN NATURE using science and studies (like Science Diet, it's backed by tons of studies proving that it's the greatest food for your dog), but when we look at wolves and their diet, we see that dogs are carnivores and need real meat to survive and most of all to THRIVE, not corn and grains. Ultimately I would grow my own fruits and vegetables, raise my own chicken and cattle, milk my own cows, make my own cheese, and grow my own wheat for making bread, I truly believe that is the way we were meant to live, and it's no secret that eating whole fresh foods is great for our bodies, why would dogs be any different? This is the approach I take to decide what's best to feed my dogs too, what is the most natural healthy way? How would they get what they need in the wild (aside from natural threats like limited resources/predators/natural disasters and such), they would eat fresh meat. How would we live without manufacturing plants that create processed foods? THAT is how it should be IMO.

Ultimately I think RAW is the ideal diet for dogs, people that feed their dogs a RAW diet are proving this all the time with the appearance, health and energy of their dogs. But this is the kibble section...sorry . My point here was that, even though I think RAW would be better than kibble, I think Orijen and Acana are better representations of food closer to a natural diet than a lot of other kibbles. It's probably the closest you can get to feeding RAW without actually feeding RAW, still a processed kibble, but much better than some out there.

Dogs that get the runs on Orijen are probably being overfed, it's a very rich food, but still some dogs cannot handle it, and will always get the runs from it, in that case I've seen those people switch to Acana and have no problems with it. A lot of people prefer Acana to Orijen. I feed both.

Good luck. Whoa...I blabbed a bit here, sorry!


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## Unosmom

> Her response was that most of the reviews online are made by "paid off" people and most people do not understand how to read dog food ingredients.


sorry, but I had to laugh at that one, what a load of crap. She should be pointing the finger at herself. I have yet to see champion bribing anyone or having it heavily advertised at every clinic, funding vet classes or give out coupons and samples at dog shows and expos.


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## xellil

DogLuver said:


> PLUS he told me that he sells Hills Prescription diet dog foods at their clinic, but he personally doesn't believe it's the best diet, he said "there are some situations where a dog does need a diet like Hills Prescription Diet, and it works well to fix certain ailments that dogs get, but it's not a life long diet, it's like a temporary medicine"...that really helped me understand, Science Diet has it's purpose, but it's not meant to be a diet. It's like getting an infection, and then receiving antibiotics, when the antibiotics are done, you don't go back and get more and take them for the rest of your life, it's temporary to fix a problem, THAT is how Science Diet should be used, not as an everyday diet.


I so agree with this. A vet that pushes ONE single food has to be getting something from selling it or has been brainwashed. A vet that is open to do what is best for the dog (or even, God forbid, consider the opinion of the dog owner) is a vet I'd like to have.

I gave a foster dog canned S/D once for bladder stones. The foster group told me it was only temporary because a dog could not sustain life on Science Diet. After reading the ingredients, I wondered how she could sustain life for six weeks. The stones did go away, but they returned and continue to return. My pleas to put her on raw food were ignored.

So yes, I think something like S/D can be a band-aid - but does it really help in the long run? I'm not so sure.


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## Caty M

Orijen doesn't need expensive marketing, bribery.. it sells itself based on ingredient lists and people's results. :smile:


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## chowder

Rocky came from the rescue with a bag of Science Diet because that is what they got for free. I switched him to Orijen Large Breed Puppy. Remember, they need a LOT less of it then you'd think or they will get diarrhea. When he hit 75 pounds, he only got 2 cups a day of it. And he still grew and did great. Any more then that and he would get the runs. 

My vet had never heard of Orijen but I didn't care and never listened to them. They had a wall lined with Science Diet and Hills products.


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## rmorrison1

Hey guys, thanks for all your wonderful input. I tend to agree with what all you are saying, I'm no nutritionist but even I can tell just by reading the ingredients that Orijen or Acana are far more superior to Eukanuba and the likes. I've never noticed my vet selling any food at the clinic but it would make sense that she was brainwashed at the seminars. I'm sticking with Acana for now.


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## DDBsR4Me

How bout some pics of your pup  I have French mastiffs, but I love all mastiff breeds...I mean what's cuter than a mastiff puppy??


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## Jack Monzon

rmorrison1 said:


> I'm no nutritionist but even I can tell just by reading the ingredients that Orijen or Acana are far more superior to Eukanuba and the likes.


Which did your puppy do better on? Eukanuba or Orijen?

I think you're changing foods way too much. What food did the puppy come to you on?


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## rmorrison1

I'm not sure what he was eating when I got him but I put him on Eukanuba and he did fine, then I switched to Orijen and it gave him loose stools and diarrhea, yesterday I switched him to Acana but he's still got diarrhea, really not sure what to do


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## DDBsR4Me

Are you switching him cold turkey, because that could definitely cause diarrhea. You want to switch dog foods gradually.


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## whiteleo

You should have done a slow switch with the food, mixing in the Eukanuba with the Orijen, 75% Eukanuba to 25%Orijen slowly increasing til it is all Orijen and no more Eukanuba. Do this with the Acana, if you don't have any Euk left just give a very little amount daily until the stomach upset is back to normal. DO NOT overfeed as this will cause liquid poo!


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## xellil

From what I understand, the amount they tell you to feed on the dog food bag is often way, way too much.


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## rmorrison1

I did switch him cold turkey from Eukanuba to Orijen and now I've switched him cold turkey to Acana, there doesn't seem to be any point in mixing it with the Orijen as that was giving him diarrhea regardless. I gave him 1 cup of Acana this morning and half a cup this evening and he just squirted on my floor :Cry:


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## MollyWoppy

Well, going back to the original post, all I can say is that I'm still waiting for my cheque from Orijen/Acana. Must have been lost in the post.


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## whiteleo

Acana is a great food, can you please post up the ingredients that you are feeding here! It very well could be different where you are..


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## Dude and Bucks Mamma

I agree. Switching him cold turkey could definitely have caused the upset stomach. If you ever switch food again in the future (unless it is raw) cold turkey is not the way to go. Some dogs can handle it but I have never had a dog who could handle a cold turkey kibble switch.

I agree with everyone else here. Orijen and Acana are way healthier than Eukaneuba or Science Diet. If I were in your position I would be finding a new vet. I don't think anyone should have to put up with a vet who makes them uncomfortable or doesn't listen to the owner of the pet they are being paid to see.


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## MollyWoppy

This is just a thought, but I do have to ask for my own peace of mind. Going by your post, you are from Israel right? Do they irradiate food that is imported into your country?


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## rmorrison1

I will post the ingredients a little later, I'm a bit busy at the moment. The funny thing is she is considered to be one of the best vets here in Israel. She treated my last Bullmastiff who sadly died of lymphoma but regardless she did a wonderful job. Maybe she's just completely ignorant when it comes to nutrition or maybe she knows something we don't.


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## rmorrison1

I have no idea if they irradiate food here.


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## xellil

rmorrison1 said:


> I will post the ingredients a little later, I'm a bit busy at the moment. The funny thing is she is considered to be one of the best vets here in Israel. She treated my last Bullmastiff who sadly died of lymphoma but regardless she did a wonderful job. Maybe she's just completely ignorant when it comes to nutrition or maybe she knows something we don't.


I really don't think it's the latter!

A vet can be great at diagnosis, treatment, etc and yet so many are not great at nutrition, even though most will act like they are.


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## rmorrison1

Acana Puppy Large Breed Formula

Chicken meal, steel-cut oats, deboned chicken, whole potato, peas, whole egg, deboned flounder, chicken fat, sun-cured alfalfa, chicken liver, herring oil, pea fiber, whole apples, whole pears, sweet potato, pumpkin, butternut squash, parsnips, carrots, spinach, cranberries, blueberries, kelp, chicory root, juniper berries, angelica root, marigold flowers, sweet fennel, peppermint leaf, lavender, vitamin A supplement, vitamin D3 supplement, vitamin E supplement, niacin, riboflavin, folic acid, biotin, vitamin B12 supplement, zinc proteinate, iron proteinate, manganese proteinate, copper proteinate, selenium yeast, dried Enterococcus faecium fermentation product.


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## whiteleo

Do you know which Eukanuba you were feeding so we can compare the ingredients


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## rmorrison1

Large breed puppy


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## Jenny

Eukanuba large breed puppy:
Chicken, Corn Meal, Chicken By-Product Meal (Natural source of Chondroitin Sulfate and Glucosamine), Ground Whole Grain Sorghum, Brewers Rice, Dried Beet Pulp, Chicken Flavor, Dried Egg Product, Fish Oil (preserved with mixed Tocopherols, a source of Vitamin E), Brewers Dried Yeast, Fish Meal, 

So superior... :hand: 

You should switch food very slowly, and maybe add probiotics too.


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## rmorrison1

Like one of those bio yogurts?


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## whiteleo

Here's the ingredients for the Large Breed Puppy Formula, but I have to go run the dogs before work!

*Ingredients*
Chicken, Corn Meal, Chicken By-Product Meal (Natural source of Chondroitin Sulfate and Glucosamine), Ground Whole Grain Sorghum, Brewers Rice, Dried Beet Pulp, Chicken Flavor, Dried Egg Product, Fish Oil (preserved with mixed Tocopherols, a source of Vitamin E), Brewers Dried Yeast, Fish Meal, Potassium Chloride, Chicken Fat (preserved with mixed Tocopherols, a source of Vitamin E), Salt, Calcium Carbonate, Choline Chloride, Fructooligosaccharides, Minerals (Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Manganese Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Potassium Iodide, Cobalt Carbonate), DL-Methionine, Vitamins (Ascorbic Acid, Vitamin A Acetate, Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Thiamine Mononitrate (source of vitamin B1), Vitamin B12 Supplement, Niacin, Riboflavin Supplement (source of vitamin B2), Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (source of vitamin B6), Inositol, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Folic Acid), Vitamin E Supplement, Marigold, Beta-Carotene, Rosemary Extra 
 
































 

 

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## DogLuver

rmorrison1 said:


> The funny thing is she is considered to be one of the best vets here in Israel. She treated my last Bullmastiff who sadly died of lymphoma but regardless she did a wonderful job. Maybe she's just completely ignorant when it comes to nutrition or maybe she knows something we don't.


There seems to be more vets like this than not. They're great vets, but not nutritionists, and don't seem to look past the "education seminars (sponsored by the company selling the food )" they received. What I don't understand is that I, and average person, wanted to know which foods were good to feed my dogs and which weren't, when I started researching, and asking people and professionals, the answers became clear (sort of lol). What is stopping these vets from doing a little research to widen their knowledge so they can actually give nutrition advice? Veterinarians are smart people, or they wouldn't make it through school! Why they don't research like the rest of us I don't understand?

It was hard to find a vet that didn't push a particular food and that actually agreed with my choice of food. He actually believes in RAW feeding as well, which is great because I will be doing that at some point. They ARE out there, but far and few in between.


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## greyshadows

I just switched my dogs to Acana and they had loose stools as well, then the woman at the pet food store said to try the Acana Grasslands variety, it has lamb not chicken. Within two days my dogs were normal! Maybe there is a chance your dogs have a chicken sensitivity. Mine had been fed Purina with chicken before, but there really wasn't that much chicken in it. The Acana has a higher percentage of real chicken, I found the Orijen too rich for my dogs as well. They really like Acana.


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## rmorrison1

The guy in the pet store who sold me the Acana also said that the dog might be sensitive to chicken but I don't think they have the grasslands variety here. I'll see how it goes for a few days.


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## rmorrison1

Here's some pics of the monster, his name is Harley.


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## xellil

What a face! He is adorable.


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## PDXdogmom

When you first make a transition from a corn/grain heavy food to a higher protein grain free food, it can take quite a while for a dog's digestive system to adjust. Also, maybe cutting back by even 1/4 cup of food in the day may help.

If you still have some of the Eukanuba, keep mixing some in with the Acana and lessen the amount every few days.

Also, try adding a tablespoon of plain canned pumpkin to the meal. That helps to sooth the digestive system and firm up the stool while you're transitioning. I would stick with the Acana for several weeks to see how it goes.

Do keep in mind though, even though Acana is thought by many to be a high quality food, it doesn't work for every dog. There are many other good foods.


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## ziggy29

rmorrison1 said:


> I have a 3.5 month old Bullmastiff, I started him off on Eukanuba believing it was a high quality food but then I started to research dog foods online and the common consensus was that Eukanuba is junk and Orijen/Acana is high quality food. I switched my puppy over to Orijen but it gave him loose stools and sometimes full blown diarrhea. I have now switched him to Acana and will see how that goes. Today I went to the vet for vaccinations and told her the whole food story and she said that in her opinion Orijen and Acana were low quality foods and Eukanuba and Science Diet were both superior. She said that she isn't a dog nutritionist but has attended many seminars and is in no way affiliated to any dog food company. So I said that I had researched this online and it was widely believed that Orijen and Acana are far superior foods. Her response was that most of the reviews online are made by "paid off" people and most people do not understand how to read dog food ingredients. This sounds highly suspect to me, what do you guys think?


I think it *might* be possible that some vets could recommend taking your dog off of those foods if they are causing digestive problems (or at least slowly introducing them over a number of weeks). But in the general case, calling it "low quality" food (especially when compared to any other kibble on the market) is just flat-out ignorance. (And I'm being charitable by calling it ignorance since she claims she's not in the pocket of some other crap-food producer.)


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## rmorrison1

I have read that canned pumpkin can help, we don't get canned pumpkin here but I bought some fresh pumpkin, boiled it and mashed it and have been adding 2 tablespoons to his food every day. So far it hasn't helped, maybe 2 tablespoons is too much?


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## xellil

rmorrison1 said:


> I have read that canned pumpkin can help, we don't get canned pumpkin here but I bought some fresh pumpkin, boiled it and mashed it and have been adding 2 tablespoons to his food every day. So far it hasn't helped, maybe 2 tablespoons is too much?


Or maybe too little; when I was feeding dry food I fed my 10 pound dog 4 tablespoons per day for constipation. But not really sure what the right amount is.


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## chowder

It is probably too much. When we first got Rocky and were changing him from Science Diet to Orijen, we did it cold turkey and he got terrible diarrhea (he also had coccidia). We were told that 1 tbs pumpkin would help the diarrhea but more then that would actually make it worse. That's why you can give it for constipation, too. Pumpkin, sweet potatoes, or boiled rice will all help with the transition if you've already done it cold turkey and don't have any of the old food to mix in. It all will add some fiber to help bulk him up a little bit. Just don't overdo it.


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## Jenny

rmorrison1 said:


> Like one of those bio yogurts?


Yes, yogurts which have friendly bacterias, or some special "bacteria powder" for dogs or human. (I don't know what you have there.)

If your dog cannot tolerate chicken, I would feed her Acana Pacifica (fish), not Acana Grasslands. Grasslands is great food, too, but it has calcium 2% and I think that is too much for medium or large breed puppies. Yes, it's said to be "all life stages" but still I wouldn't feed it to puppies under 1 year. Pacifica has 1,5% calcium, and it's better for puppies IMO. Pacifica is very good and digestible food.


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## rmorrison1

I've boiled him some chicken and rice today and I'll see how that goes, if that gives him diarrhea then there's a good chance that he is sensitive to chicken. Luckily Acana Pacifica is available here.


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## DogLuver

Jenny said:


> Yes, yogurts which have friendly bacterias, or some special "bacteria powder" for dogs or human. (I don't know what you have there.)
> 
> If your dog cannot tolerate chicken, I would feed her Acana Pacifica (fish), not Acana Grasslands. Grasslands is great food, too, but it has calcium 2% and I think that is too much for medium or large breed puppies. Yes, it's said to be "all life stages" but still I wouldn't feed it to puppies under 1 year. Pacifica has 1,5% calcium, and it's better for puppies IMO. Pacifica is very good and digestible food.


Good point! I too have a Giant breed puppy (great dane 7mths old) and I will only feed Acana Pacifica or Orijen (LBP, Adult, 6-Fish) because the calciumhosphorus ratio is appropriate for a growing giant breed. These percentages are very important with large/giant breeds because if it's too high or the wrong ratio, it can effect their growth and cause problems with their bones down the road.


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## Ania's Mommy

Whoa whoa whoa. Let's slow down for a sec.

How long have you been feeding the Acana? How long were you feeding the Orijen before switching? I would give a new food a solid month before discarding it as something that your dog can't tolerate if all you are experiencing is soft poo.

We ARE only talking about loose stools here, right? Not full blown diarrhea for weeks on end, right? Do YOU sometimes have softer stools? Do you panic and have a complete diet overhaul? My guess is that you don't. So why do the same for dogs? :tongue:

I would do as others have suggested and sloooowww it all down. Cut back on the amount you are feeding (seriously, you can feed so much less of a quality food than you could something with a bunch of crappy fillers like SD. And the guidelines on the back of the bag are usually way way too high). Try adding some canned pumpkin. Just a little though. And slowly start decreasing it.

I feel like a lot of people (in general) tend to discard foods a bit too quickly. I would encourage you to stick with the Acana a bit longer, as it is a really good food. And who knows? A month into the trial, your dog may be one of the ones who doesn't do well on it. But give it a fair shot first. 

I think it's way too soon to talk about a chicken intolerance.


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## naturalfeddogs

rmorrison1 said:


> I have a 3.5 month old Bullmastiff, I started him off on Eukanuba believing it was a high quality food but then I started to research dog foods online and the common consensus was that Eukanuba is junk and Orijen/Acana is high quality food. I switched my puppy over to Orijen but it gave him loose stools and sometimes full blown diarrhea. I have now switched him to Acana and will see how that goes. Today I went to the vet for vaccinations and told her the whole food story and she said that in her opinion Orijen and Acana were low quality foods and Eukanuba and Science Diet were both superior. She said that she isn't a dog nutritionist but has attended many seminars and is in no way affiliated to any dog food company. So I said that I had researched this online and it was widely believed that Orijen and Acana are far superior foods. Her response was that most of the reviews online are made by "paid off" people and most people do not understand how to read dog food ingredients. This sounds highly suspect to me, what do you guys think?


I don't feed kibble, but It sounds to me like the vet is the one who dosn't know how to read the labels. 

I would be looking for another vet!


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## Jack Monzon

A month of loose stool is too long, imo. You should know in a week or two after a sensible transition whether the food is working.


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## rmorrison1

I was feeding him Orijen for about 3 weeks, he always had soft stools and a lot of them and some days full blown diarrhea, he's only been on Acana for 2 days now. Today I fed him boiled rice and chicken to let his stomach settle and he did solid poops so I think that counts out a chicken allergy.


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## Jenny

rmorrison1 said:


> Today I fed him boiled rice and chicken to let his stomach settle and he did solid poops so I think that counts out a chicken allergy.


That's good. I would feed him now chicken & rice and probiotics, and SLOWLY introduce Acana, within 1-2 weeks. Good luck! :thumb:


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## rmorrison1

Hey guys, just wanted to update you all, Harley has been eating 600 grams of Acana for the past few days and has solid firm poop, yey! :high5:


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## KittyKat

rmorrison1 said:


> Hey guys, just wanted to update you all, Harley has been eating 600 grams of Acana for the past few days and has solid firm poop, yey! :high5:


Awesome news! Sometimes it just takes a bit of time and patience. =)


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## brandypup

rmorrison1 said:


> Today I went to the vet for vaccinations and told her the whole food story and she said that in her opinion Orijen and Acana were low quality foods and Eukanuba and Science Diet were both superior.This sounds highly suspect to me, what do you guys think?



bawhahahaha i spit gatoraid on the computer. cough choke. I personaly wouldnt' go back to that vet. If you do I hope you can work with her positivily. I know if I wanted to change vets everythiem I disagreed I would run out of vets.


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## KittyKat

brandypup said:


> bawhahahaha i spit gatoraid on the computer. cough choke. I personaly wouldnt' go back to that vet. If you do I hope you can work with her positivily. I know if I wanted to change vets everythiem I disagreed I would run out of vets.



Most vets say this. Mine said it was because origin and acana have too much protein. -_-

Now i feed raw and she said 'well... bones are dangerous and you should add carbs! Dogs need carbs!'

Besides her utter lack of nutritional knowledge, she's great.


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## Igandwhippetlover

I find that Orijen and Acana are great foods. When our tony became very sick from being poisoned, the ER vet said to feed him SD/LD.
we bought it, 6 cans! They went to the shelter in town, He would not eat it at all. The second ER vet told us to feed him fish based dog food.
We switched to Solid Gold Holistic Blendz. I do not nor will I ever feed my dogs SD or Purina.
Stick with the Orijen or Acana.


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## kevin bradley

I can UNDERSTAND the position that Orijen/Acana...the really elite foods are unnecessary. I don't agree with this position, but I at least GET it. The scientific community needs lots and lots of confirmation and the only way they get this is thru studies. 

But to say that Science Diet or whatever garbage they are pushing is BETTER?... that would ALSO require the same studies they lack in the industry. 

So I continue to be confused by the entire establishment. I honestly don't know that its SD and these other companies lining the pockets of our VETS. Hell, in all my time at my Vets office, he's never tried to sell me the SD on his shelf. Christ, I think most of it has dust on the bags. In fact, I've never seen ANYONE buy any food in there.


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## MollyWoppy

Kev, mate, when Mol had to go in because she broke one of her teeth, even though her teeth are perfect (even if I do say so myself , and the vet agreed, (before they realised what she ate), they still sent me home with a sample bag of some huge kibbled SD for teeth. 
My vet is another who hates Orijen, blames it for liver and kidney diseases because of the high protein. They said it's got 82% protein. No, I said, its more like 40% protein, the 82% is the amount of protein derived from meat sources.
They didn't believe me.


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## specsgirl

I'm so glad that you stuck to your guns and didn't listen to your vets advice on this one. As a person who has 4 bullmastiffs in my home I can say that with the exception of 1 who has allergies and is fed a raw diet the rest are on Orijen/Acana. Were raised on them and look absolutely fabulous. Two of them are my current show dogs(one finished #14 last year in Canada) I get compliments everywhere we go. People esp. those who show want to know what my secret is..lol..it's the dog food. I have happy, healthy(yes I pull yearly panels and they all pass with flying colors) and gorgeous dogs.


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## schtuffy

Oh dear...don't second guess yourself, Orijen and Acana are high quality kibbles. I doubted myself for a long time when I was searching for the perfect kibble, and even after switching to Orijen I had so many doubts because of all the brainwashing in the media, so I just kept reading and kept digging and kept asking questions. You are doing the right thing for your pup, except maybe try transitioning a little slower this time. Low quality kibble like Eukanuba are crammed with fillers and corn that bind and add bulk to stool. Orijen is very rich in comparison, and therefore switching over to it from something like Eukanuba usually does cause soft stools. I transitioned my dog over to Orijen over a period of 1 month. You could also try feeding less, usually way less than what the bag recommends and then go from there.

ETA: Oops, looks like I responded before getting to the last page :biggrin: Anywho, glad things are going well! I'm sure you have a great vet, but sometimes we have to pick and choose what information we glean from them....much like how you can't expect your general practitioner doctor to know everything about medicine, hence referrals to other experts. As for attending seminars...I've gone to quite a few in my field of work, and I can honestly tell you that a lot of times I walk away remembering jack :wink:


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## nupe

rmorrison1 said:


> I have a 3.5 month old Bullmastiff, I started him off on Eukanuba believing it was a high quality food but then I started to research dog foods online and the common consensus was that Eukanuba is junk and Orijen/Acana is high quality food. I switched my puppy over to Orijen but it gave him loose stools and sometimes full blown diarrhea. I have now switched him to Acana and will see how that goes. Today I went to the vet for vaccinations and told her the whole food story and she said that in her opinion Orijen and Acana were low quality foods and Eukanuba and Science Diet were both superior. She said that she isn't a dog nutritionist but has attended many seminars and is in no way affiliated to any dog food company. So I said that I had researched this online and it was widely believed that Orijen and Acana are far superior foods. *Her response was that most of the reviews online are made by "paid off" people and most people do not understand how to read dog food ingredients*. This sounds highly suspect to me, what do you guys think?



Champion must have a ton of money...because they have paid off alot of folks then...that talk highly of their food...to your vet I just say..""COME ON MAN"!!!


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## RCTRIPLEFRESH5

Makovach said:


> Wow. This sounds alot to me like the pot calling the kettle black type ordeal. Everything I've ever been told/read/researched and told by a few vets is that the things i think are "crap" in kibble, ARE. And vets have told me they get a percentage to reccomend those foods, and alot of people fall for it and thats why they push it. I was also told that the segment of "nutrition" they get in school is basicly a siminar about why to push this food more than what should be in it. I would ignore it and stick with the acana/orjin. Maybe try mixing the food with the old food until your pup is adjusted well? Good luck.


it's one thing for a vet to sell SD out of ignorance but it sounds like the vets u talk to are just a-holes.


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## Jordan S.

well no duh...lol


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## aria2712

Hi.. I'm a new member here.. I feed acana puppy large breed to 2 my female golden retrievers. the result is great. I just need less quantity to feed them but they still gain weight. I've switched to acana puppy large breed from Oct 2011. Before acana, I have tried some brands (Nutrisource, Pro Series, and Advanced Pet Diets). and I've seen that the best result is Acana. I have never tried Orijen because the price is still too high for me now.

I think this vet is actually the "paid off" guy. Ask him, why he thinks acana and orijen are a worse than Eukanuba or SD (Science Diet)? and ask him why Orijen has awarded as Pet Food of the Year from 2009. 

PS : I live in Indonesia which is a tropical country. Some vets say that it is not good to feed your dog with a high level of protein diet. the fact is I feed my dogs with acana puppy large breed, my friend feed orijen to his scottish terriers. None of our dogs have a problem like they said.


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## ukestah

Hello everyone!

I work in the veterinary profession and I would like to confirm that many vets and animal hospitals carry brands like Science Diet, Eukanuba, etc. because they receive kickbacks ($$$$) for carrying those products from the companies. It is very sad that these professionals who we put our trust in to take care of our dogs/family members sell out to these companies who are putting out junk food so that they can have more money in the bank! Very sad indeed! 

Acana has proven to be a superb dogfood and my dogs love it ... and they have a clean bill of health!


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## kevin bradley

Guys, is this really all that surprising?

I do believe Tim out here is an exception. He obviously has done a great deal of work on the nutritional side of things.

Now, I will say that there is a GRAIN(note I stressed "grain") of truth in what this Vet says... and that is that there is lots of information flying around the internet that is more anecdotal than science. We all(me included) need to be careful what we deem as "proof" of good nutrition. Just because something sounds great for our Dogs doesn't always work out to be correct.

That being said, I would never feed Science Diet over Orijen.


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## aria2712

does your vet also sell eukanuba or science diet? it is a typical "vet" that also happen is my country. They will exaggerate their products and disparage other products. Usually when you switched to orijen or acana, there will be some short period of time that the stool will be loosened and sometimes it followed by small bumps in your dog's skin. it is normal due to detoxification process.


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## Georgiapeach

My vet, whom I think highly of, except in the area of nutrition, carries a full line of Royal Canin kibble. It takes up a whole small room next to the waiting room - amazing! After pushing RC on me for two of my dogs, we've agreed to disagree - lol! 

I've heard of more dogs doing well on Acana vs. Orijen. I think it's b/c Orijen is too rich for the ordinary pet. I have a boxer, and if I feed too high of a protein (even cutting back on the portion size), he gets diarrhea. He's doing well on Taste of the Wild Pacific Stream - I tried getting away from Diamond products, but this is the kibble he does best on - I guess it could be worse, right? I'd try Acana Pacifica, if I could afford it, for sure, but it's the most expensive variety in my area.


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## murbanski

I would immediately find a different vet, normally I would trust someone who went to school for eight years. But, SERIOUSLY? Especially owning a dog with specific nutrition requirements......


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## naturalfeddogs

murbanski said:


> I would immediately find a different vet, normally I would trust someone who went to school for eight years. But, SERIOUSLY? Especially owning a dog with specific nutrition requirements......


Vets get very little nutrional education in vet school. It's one area most know very little about. Science Diet pretty much funds vet nutrional courses. They get benefits for marketing and selling SD, Eukanuba etc....... They know what the company reps tell them about their foods. So, of course they are going to push what they sell in their office.


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## DaViking

Actually Eukanuba got a few foods that are not too shabby, in particular the two premium performance formulas. Royal-Canin got many good options but are on the pricey side. I do not like Science-Diet at all.

You won't find me in the Eukanuba, Pro-Plan, Nutro and Royal-Canin lynch mob. If you really want to make a difference it's much more effective to spread the word wherever you go on how awful most of the grocery store foods are. That's where the huge volumes are and that's the kind of foods that are potentially harmful in the long run. Just today I was evaluating how some of the grocery store brands activate social media in their marketing. Their reach is actually stunning, and growing every day.


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## Posh Pei

The sad truth is that many vets don't know what they are talking about when it come's to dog foods, and nutrition. I have seen this way to much. There are vets that do take an actual interest in dog foods, and do their homework .. but most don't! They have also been getting kick backs to promote Iam's and especially Science diet for years!

I used to feed my dogs Iam's and Science diet years ago, only to realize after extensive research that all of those years I was feeding my dogs foods full of the lowest grade foods, and toxins!

Most dogfood companies/manufacturers have gone holistic now, or they would be out of business. Don't let that fool you. Alot of these companies are still feeding garbage, and fillers to your beloved pets.

As far as Orijen & Acana, they are two of the best dogfoods out there! Very high quality! I have fed my dogs Acana, and they thrived, along with having gorgeous coats! Just read the ingredients, it's excellent! If it's not agreeing with your dog, I would try cutting it with your old dog food, and transition your dog a little more slowly. You may want to add a tablespoon of plain yogurt to his food, and see if that settles his stomach, and his stools, if not, and the loose stools don't go away, then I would switch foods. 

Are you feeding grain free? Just wondering what your preference is?

I try to stay with family owned dogfood companies, which Acana is (Champion Petfoods). Another good food that my dogs love is from another family owned company out of Wisconsin. Fromms. I feed Fromms Duck and Sweet Potato .. they love it!

I did a taste testing between several samples of the best dog foods including Acana, Fromms, Wellness, etc. ...they all went for the Acana Pacifica grain free EVERYTIME! Their second choice was the Fromms Duck & Sweet Potato. 

Acana & Fromms are both available in Canada & the U.S. (Acana being a Canadian company, and Fromms being a U.S. company)

Both are excellent foods! I would certainly stick with the Acana, unless you absolutely cannot! 

There are many premium foods out there. Just do your homework, and your Mastiff will be just fine, I'm sure!

The last person you want to listen to about dogfoods is a vet, unless that vet is promoting several of the highest quality foods, and that certainly isn't what most of them are promoting!

Good Luck, I'd love to hear how your puppy makes out, and what food you decide to stay/go with


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## monster'sdad

MollyWoppy said:


> Kev, mate, when Mol had to go in because she broke one of her teeth, even though her teeth are perfect (even if I do say so myself , and the vet agreed, (before they realised what she ate), they still sent me home with a sample bag of some huge kibbled SD for teeth.
> My vet is another who hates Orijen, blames it for liver and kidney diseases because of the high protein. They said it's got 82% protein. No, I said, its more like 40% protein, the 82% is the amount of protein derived from meat sources.
> They didn't believe me.


If you are right on the 82% derived from meat and other animal sources that is pretty mediocre for a food of that price and GA protein. Eukanuba's best food is over 90%, Eukanuba Premium Performance. Dr. Tim's Pursuit is over 90% and his Momentum is over 95%.

You are going to be really bummed out when the new Orijen formulas come out. They look chock full of beans, lentils and peas. I guess the new owners and bean counters figure people will buy it anyway.


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## aRcaNum

Immediately get a new vet. The brands they recommends pay them to do so. Acana or Orijen by Champion Pet foods of Canada...period. Don't be fooled again!


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## aRcaNum

90% us tooooo much.


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## Georgiapeach

My vet has a phone tree when you call, and one of the choices is for people who want to purchase more dog food (Royal Canin)... :frown: I think Acana is a fine choice!


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## bett

i like my vet very much and he knows squat about dog food, and i think he knows it too.

we've been discussing vangie and her high eosinophil count and how she barfs every 2-4 months and i need to change her food, prednisone (i have her down to 5m every 5 days which for a 65 lb dog is minimal) and he insists she stay on a novel (and try and find novel proteins that don't have chicken fat, or carcass, or lamb meal, of fish meal or turkey meal) protein until the next episode. so….we had a long long talk, and i 'm going in with rex tomorrow , (other issues) and bringing him the articles telling you with a dog that is intolerant or allergic, rotating proteins, novel, of course, is more likely to not produce the intolerance. he told me, he guesses he should be the scientist but that i am. that was after i asked him if he reads labels on dog kibble.
of course, then he gasped when i said i was going to hare today for raw with bones (venison, llama, rabbit, goat). pity is -my husband is a butcher in a prime shop but really can't get that stuff, and grind it with bone. 
oh well. after he gasped i asked him about all the recalls with dry kibble. 
enough said.


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## mrs_rod2013

My vet recommended Science Diet too, sent me home with a sample, but my puppy didn't like it


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## NutroGeoff

rmorrison1 said:


> I have a 3.5 month old Bullmastiff, I started him off on Eukanuba believing it was a high quality food but then I started to research dog foods online and the common consensus was that Eukanuba is junk and Orijen/Acana is high quality food. I switched my puppy over to Orijen but it gave him loose stools and sometimes full blown diarrhea. I have now switched him to Acana and will see how that goes. Today I went to the vet for vaccinations and told her the whole food story and she said that in her opinion Orijen and Acana were low quality foods and Eukanuba and Science Diet were both superior. She said that she isn't a dog nutritionist but has attended many seminars and is in no way affiliated to any dog food company. So I said that I had researched this online and it was widely believed that Orijen and Acana are far superior foods. Her response was that most of the reviews online are made by "paid off" people and most people do not understand how to read dog food ingredients. This sounds highly suspect to me, what do you guys think?


I am not very familiar with Orijen or Acana but from what I have heard, they are very good foods. In my opinion, it really depends on the dog. I have seen plenty of dogs that eat the Eukanuba and Science Diet and honestly, I've seen plenty that do just fine on it. Although, I've also seen dogs that do terribly on it. That could be said about any brand though. I don't think I'll ever be feeding my dogs either of those brands though. I would much rather stick with the higher end foods.


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## littlemachoo

I have found that many vets sell dog and cat foods right from their offices. Most have sold Science Diet. So I tend to think these vets are financially gaining in some way when they choose a pet food to sell in their front room! I have heard, over the years, that Science Diet is a lesser quality product! I read the labels! And many vets are uneducated in nutrition. Just as are many human doctors. The big name brands are not necessarily the ones who make the best dog food. Many of them have been subject to serious and deadly recalls. I have a local "boutique" pet store here and the owner thoroughly researches all dog foods she sells.....she is known to only sell quality dog foods from recognizable and safe companies who use sources for their raw ingredients that are in the USA or Canada. I just discovered Acana there,and my dogs love it. I like the fact that the company openly lists WHERE its raw ingredients are from and are fresh delivered to the plant daily(except for lamb, which usually comes from New Zealand). I am more than willing to spend the money for a great quality dog food. I want to know the sources. Acana openly tells you on its packaging, which most manufacturers do not do and you end up having to actually call them and ask specific questions - very specific questions!
But all dogs have different reactions to dog foods. And introducing a new food to them - even top shelf foods -can mess with their little systems. ALWAYS introduce a new food GRADUALLY, mixing it with the current food first before totally switching over. And if the dog still has discomfort, find a new dog food! It sometimes takes time to find a great dog food that your pet tolerates well. I have four dogs and sometimes a particular brand will not be tolerated by ONE of these babies....I have to switch so they all tolerate the food in their bowl. 
Also, trust your dog food seller.....find one who takes the time to research what they sell. Also keep in mind that you probably won't see how a dog food affects your pet until the dog is older. Longevity and continued health are the true test, and that doesn't become evident for years!


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## LProf

DDBsR4Me said:


> How bout some pics of your pup  I have French mastiffs, but I love all mastiff breeds...I mean what's cuter than a mastiff puppy??


Answer: A Pug puppy.(.


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## Dr Dolittle

You folks should read the thread Brand Bias started by Shamrockmommy just for another perspective. You all seem to believe the same things but have many facts wrong. As someone in the industry with a very different perspective having watched food companies come and go and marketing change and nutrition science develop, you need to research a little more. We as humans are so easily moved by marketing and 95% of everything I hear and read from food companies has nothing to do with nutrition, but sells food! I hate to see the whole industry change to suit the latest fad like holistic which means absolutely nothing, or meat first, or grain free, all to get more of your money. And it works on the people who care the most about their pets! Sad!


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## RichD13

rmorrison1 said:


> I have a 3.5 month old Bullmastiff, I started him off on Eukanuba believing it was a high quality food but then I started to research dog foods online and the common consensus was that Eukanuba is junk and Orijen/Acana is high quality food. I switched my puppy over to Orijen but it gave him loose stools and sometimes full blown diarrhea. I have now switched him to Acana and will see how that goes. Today I went to the vet for vaccinations and told her the whole food story and she said that in her opinion Orijen and Acana were low quality foods and Eukanuba and Science Diet were both superior. She said that she isn't a dog nutritionist but has attended many seminars and is in no way affiliated to any dog food company. So I said that I had researched this online and it was widely believed that Orijen and Acana are far superior foods. Her response was that most of the reviews online are made by "paid off" people and most people do not understand how to read dog food ingredients. This sounds highly suspect to me, what do you guys think?


Well when I walk in my vet the first thing ya see is a wall packed with Hills Science diet. She mentioned " paid off" ,well theres that going on in vet offices all over the country in other ways. I'm sure she would put you on Hills tho. Read the ingredients in Orijen and then in Hills. That will tell you all you really need to know.. highly recommend a Netflix doc called "PetFooled"..its an eye opener for sure!


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## no name

rmorrison1 said:


> I have a 3.5 month old Bullmastiff, I started him off on Eukanuba believing it was a high quality food but then I started to research dog foods online and the common consensus was that Eukanuba is junk and Orijen/Acana is high quality food. I switched my puppy over to Orijen but it gave him loose stools and sometimes full blown diarrhea. I have now switched him to Acana and will see how that goes. Today I went to the vet for vaccinations and told her the whole food story and she said that in her opinion Orijen and Acana were low quality foods and Eukanuba and Science Diet were both superior. She said that she isn't a dog nutritionist but has attended many seminars and is in no way affiliated to any dog food company. So I said that I had researched this online and it was widely believed that Orijen and Acana are far superior foods. Her response was that most of the reviews online are made by "paid off" people and most people do not understand how to read dog food ingredients. This sounds highly suspect to me, what do you guys think?


Like your vet said she is not a a dog nutritionist, in her opinion she feel what she think is best . At the end of day what id comfortable for you and your baby. Does the other puppy food make him/her feel better is the stool formed and not smelly. How is their tummy after they eat and play consider all those facts and go from there. I have two 3 month old standard/xl mix Pitbull's and I am going to try merricks and see how they do on that. I was giving them blue diamond which they eat well but some of the reviews on line didn't sit well with me. We'll see


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## Crowley's pop

every vet office i have ever been in sold Science Diet, Colgate Palmolive probably spends more on marketing for their nutrition brand than Purina. a balance diet is important, too much protein bad, too little also bad and different breeds may have different requirements. That said i think the comment about overfeeding leading to the diarrhea is likely. Bullmastiff pup will over eat and likely get too much protein if you overfeed. I do know i have seen dogs turn their nose up to Science Diet but my dog gets excited when i pour his Orijen.


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