# Dear everyone who's been scared off by raw because of MY posts:



## minnieme (Jul 6, 2011)

You know the frenzied, frantic, crazy postings about Minnie's diarrhea I've posted as of late? 

This has happened a few times now (most of which are tracked here on DFC). 

The culprit?

Zuke's Mini Naturals dog treats. When we had family visiting, they brought Minnie a smart toy (ball with a hole in it) filled with treats. She has mostly given up on it (very lazy dane), but on occasion (when hungry) will kick it around and try to get more treats out. Tonight as I was watching her I saw the treats come out. She gobbled a couple of them up. Aside from this, she has only had chicken backs today (and one very nice poo thereafter). 3 treats. 3 tiny treats and within 20 minutes she had explosive diarrhea. 

Process of elimination. She played with the ball and got those same treats out during previous diarrhea episodes. 

S*%$. Hope I'm not up all night. (But NO, it was NEVER raw!!!!)


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## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

Well crap! Lets see how it goes the next couple of days! Hopefully you get a good night's rest!


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## DoglovingSenior (Jun 26, 2011)

It is such a Terrific when we find the reason for a problem and one that is SO easily solved. I'll check back in a few days just to be certain.


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## SilverBeat (Jan 16, 2011)

Wallaby once ate about 1/4 cup of the mid-quality kibble I use for treats at the rescue [Chicken Soup] and had cannon butt for three days.

This is one of the reasons we say not to feed anything... and we mean ANYTHING other than bone-in chicken for the first week. :tongue:


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## minnieme (Jul 6, 2011)

SilverBeat said:


> Wallaby once ate about 1/4 cup of the mid-quality kibble I use for treats at the rescue [Chicken Soup] and had cannon butt for three days.
> 
> This is one of the reasons we say not to feed anything... and we mean ANYTHING other than bone-in chicken for the first week. :tongue:


I agree! I didn't know it even had treats in it still... she usually just kicks it once and gives up when nothing comes out. ;-)

Glad to know what it was; sad to see her feeling sick again. Bugger!


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## minnieme (Jul 6, 2011)

Also this is why you don't let very kind and well-intentioned, yet uneducated, people buy treats for your dog. They may be "all natural" but there is something in there that seriously doesn't agree with her!


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## SilverBeat (Jan 16, 2011)

minnieme said:


> Also this is why you don't let very kind and well-intentioned, yet uneducated, people buy treats for your dog. They may be "all natural" but there is something in there that seriously doesn't agree with her!


I must seem like such a jerk when it comes to this. People in my neighborhood are so treat-happy it's insane, there's one guy who carries milk-bones when he walks his little bichon and hands them out to every other dog-walking-person he sees... EVERY time, I have to tell him no, thanks, at least three times, and usually by that time the treat is right in front of my dog's snout and I walk off feeling a combination of annoyed and embarrassed, and then wondering why I am embarrassed.
Or when we go over to other peoples' houses who have dogs, I always have to try and tactfully explain that I don't want to see that beggin strip sprayed all over my yard or carpet tomorrow, so please just keep it away from him..
One of my friends gave me a bag of sweet potato jerky treats when I first adopted Wallaby, which to be fair I did offer them to Mr. B, but he wanted nothing to do with them. She also gave us some tennis balls and a squeaky plush toy, which he loves, so I didn't feel as bad.


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## minnieme (Jul 6, 2011)

SilverBeat said:


> I must seem like such a jerk when it comes to this. People in my neighborhood are so treat-happy it's insane, there's one guy who carries milk-bones when he walks his little bichon and hands them out to every other dog-walking-person he sees... EVERY time, I have to tell him no, thanks, at least three times, and usually by that time the treat is right in front of my dog's snout and I walk off feeling a combination of annoyed and embarrassed, and then wondering why I am embarrassed.
> Or when we go over to other peoples' houses who have dogs, I always have to try and tactfully explain that I don't want to see that beggin strip sprayed all over my yard or carpet tomorrow, so please just keep it away from him..
> One of my friends gave me a bag of sweet potato jerky treats when I first adopted Wallaby, which to be fair I did offer them to Mr. B, but he wanted nothing to do with them. She also gave us some tennis balls and a squeaky plush toy, which he loves, so I didn't feel as bad.



Oddly enough, Minnie goes absolutely BONKERS CRAZY over milkbones. What gives? They're like the blandest crap you can eat!  As for beggin strips........... I'm amazed that people give that crap to their dogs.... They gross me out. And coming from someone who just butchered the hell out of a chicken..that seems strange.


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## SilverBeat (Jan 16, 2011)

minnieme said:


> Oddly enough, Minnie goes absolutely BONKERS CRAZY over milkbones. What gives? They're like the blandest crap you can eat!  As for beggin strips........... I'm amazed that people give that crap to their dogs.... They gross me out. And coming from someone who just butchered the hell out of a chicken..that seems strange.


Lol... I ate them [beggin strips] more than once as a kid.. they were strangely good. I'm always surprised at what people will feed to their dogs, but the second raw meat comes up, they're all like, "you feed him WHAT?!!!?1!"


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## Chocx2 (Nov 16, 2009)

I don't have a problem with neighbors but vets love to give your dog s$&( treats even though you feed raw. I do give treats to my dogs, but I dehydrate meat and use that...


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## lauren43 (Feb 6, 2011)

This is exactly why I use dog food (orijen) and sometimes even crap treats for Avery. I don't want to have a heart attack everytime someone gives him a treat or worry if he gets into dog food when we visit other doggy friends (It has already happened too many times to count)...He has no adverse reaction to these items anymore..


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## danecolor (Nov 22, 2010)

just wanted to say i am so glad you got to the bottom of you sweet Dane girl's stomach troubles! hopefully now she can really enjoy being raw :wink:


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## minnieme (Jul 6, 2011)

lauren43 said:


> This is exactly why I use dog food (orijen) and sometimes even crap treats for Avery. I don't want to have a heart attack everytime someone gives him a treat or worry if he gets into dog food when we visit other doggy friends (It has already happened too many times to count)...He has no adverse reaction to these items anymore..


I agree completely -- so Minnie does get some treats that aren't necessarily dehydrated meat or anything like that. She has done well with everything EXCEPT these ones. Do you all think this is a true allergic reaction? I've listed the ingredients below -- can anyone figure out what it might be? Or do you think it's a combination of the ingredients? I know this would be impossible for you all to tell, but I'm just wondering if there's a common allergen in there that I should be aware of in the future.

Ingredients: Chicken, ground rice, ground barley, malted barley, gelatin, vegetable glycerin, tapioca, brewers yeast, natural flavors (wtf does that mean?), fish oil, lecithin, salt, phosphoric acid, sorbic acid, mixed tocopherols, ascorbic acid. 

These are the Zuke's Mini Naturals dog treats (chicken flavored). Of course, I made the mistake of calling my mom this morning and telling her I found the culprit, and she is instead convinced that it couldn't be "those little treats" -- it's her raw diet. :tsk: Why are people so scared of this?! It gets to the point of demonizing, so I can't blame any raw feeder one bit for getting defensive once and a while. It's just really kinda sad...

Anyway, hopefully she is on the mend...but yeah...fasting today (of course my mom also thought I was evil for doing that too). Stupid treats. ;-)


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## minnieme (Jul 6, 2011)

minnieme said:


> I agree completely -- so Minnie does get some treats that aren't necessarily dehydrated meat or anything like that. She has done well with everything EXCEPT these ones.


I should clarify that as of late, she only gets treats in her obedience class....and she handles them fantastically (dehydrated turkey). Otherwise, because we are kind of "starting over" ... she only gets her 2 meals.


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## chowder (Sep 7, 2008)

I carry a bag of my own treats with me and I hand people one of them to give my dogs. I also always ask if I can give their dog a treat of mine and I tell them what it is (dried lamb lung) so they know I'm not handing their dog garbage. Most are amazed when their dogs gobble it up and dance around for more from me. 

Maybe I'll get a few people to switch from milk bones that way!


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## D'Lynn (Jun 20, 2011)

Your beautiful girl may very well have an allergic reaction to one or more of the ingredients in these treats. No amount of exposure will get her over that. I only have an example from my human baby. When my youngest daughter was a baby any amount of milk would give her what looked like third degree burns on her bum. Even the small amount in baby wieners was enough to cause a reaction. Dehydrated whatever might work better for Minnie.


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## tem_sat (Jun 20, 2010)

SilverBeat said:


> I must seem like such a jerk when it comes to this. People in my neighborhood are so treat-happy it's insane, there's one guy who carries milk-bones when he walks his little bichon and hands them out to every other dog-walking-person he sees... EVERY time, I have to tell him no, thanks, at least three times, and usually by that time the treat is right in front of my dog's snout and I walk off feeling a combination of annoyed and embarrassed, and then wondering why I am embarrassed.


Well, I am pretty sure that Syracuse, NY is quite a ways away from San Antonio, TX, but, it seems there is another "guy" (in his 70's) who carries Milk Bones in his pocket every morning when he takes his morning walk. I did see him one time and couldn't bring myself to say no to his request to give one to my Doxie. Luckily, no ill after-effects.


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

Im soo glad that you found the reason!!:happy: YAY!!:biggrin: :thumb:


But Ive got to say, with the treats, my Lhasa had QUITE a few allergies to things...so even from when he and I where both young, he was 2 and I was 11, I would tell people NO TREATS! And he learned to bring ANYTHING given to me to be inspected first!:tongue1:

We got a LOT of dirty looks and I heard named muttered under people's breath about me...but I dealt with it...and now have a MUCH thicker skin when anyone says anything about raw!LOL

I explained to Jesse and his whole family when we first got Brody that he is NOT allowed ANY human food at all, and NO treats unless I have ok'ed them before hand! However even 17 months latter they STILL try and give him stuff...and Ive gotten past the point of being nice now they just get a "What are you doing? Ive told ya'll NO hf/treats!!" and my pups are all 3 funny because the Collies will run over to me when anything anyone gives them...and Brody runs AWAY from humans to eat what ever it is!LOL


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## rawdogs (Jan 29, 2011)

I am also made to feel like a meanie,when other dog walkers offer mine crap treats and i say no thanks,Wilma does react to grains and last friday she managed to grab a couple from another dog,on sunday she pulled a fist sized clump of hair from her leg,the last 3 days she has left it alone and now has some new growth.

Ido wish peeps would keep there crap to themselves.


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## RaisingWolves (Mar 19, 2011)

My boxer is a food snob. He refuses to eat processed dog food. He turns his nose up to it and then looks at me like if to say, "Can you believe what they just tried to feed me?" LOL 
sigh....I wish my mastiff would turn her nose up to crappy processed treats.:frown: She will take food from anyone. She doesn't get diarrhea, her ears get red and gunky the next day.


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## SerenityFL (Sep 28, 2010)

Very happy that the problem was discovered and that now you can get your dog on track.

To all of those who have people who like to give out treats on their walks, or, in my case, when I was moving, seemed every toll booth operator had some Milk Bones on hand and wanted to give them to the hoodlums...

Here's what I do: Take them. In MY hand. They want to give a treat, I take it in my hand, thank them very graciously and then continue on my way. Once we are out of sight, I toss that bad boy either in the bushes or out the window, (in the case of toll booth operators). I never let them hand the food to my dog, ever. I do not even give them the chance to feed it to my hoodlum, I stick my hand out and accept it.

If they ask why I'm still holding it and not immediately giving it to my hoodlum(s), I tell them that my hoodlum is in training and food can only come from me and that is after they have done something to deserve it. If we have stopped along the sidewalk, they want to give a treat, I take it in my hand and they stand there, waiting expectantly, I continue on talking. Again, if they ask about it, I thank them graciously again and repeat that the hoodlum is in training but am sure that they appreciate the treat and the gesture.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

i don't think you need to fast her. she had a perfect poo.....

the ingredients in zukes are not at all benign.....

they aren't benign for a kibble fed dog, let alone a raw fed dog....

and for sure, a beginning raw fed dog....

there is no one who hasn't told me i'm killing my dogs...from my vet to my sister in law...or telling me to be careful with that diet....or being condescending, saying, well, maybe you can feed raw because you're so diligent....but raw isn't good for your dog....and a hundred other reasons why i should not give my dog raw.

i'm mean because no one gives my dogs treats...actually my dogs no longer get treats. they are not dock dogs....or agility dogs....

malia is perfect to begin with, so no training necessary for her....and bubba is so food driven, he becomes the food and the training goes out the window....

i get my validation here. 

plus, after studying human nutrition to improve my own quality of life....i looked at my dog and then looked at the ingredients of their dog food and went D'OH.

i'm eating the freshest of the fresh and my dogs are eating processed food.....D'OH.

i've gotten over people's reactions to what my dogs eat....and you will too..especially when minnie transitions into the glorious dane, not the pitiful dane....

and it happens almost overnight. one night you go to bed and wake up the next morning and wonder where your dog went and who is this dog standing in minnie's feet.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

minnieme said:


> I agree completely -- so Minnie does get some treats that aren't necessarily dehydrated meat or anything like that. She has done well with everything EXCEPT these ones. Do you all think this is a true allergic reaction? I've listed the ingredients below -- can anyone figure out what it might be? Or do you think it's a combination of the ingredients? I know this would be impossible for you all to tell, but I'm just wondering if there's a common allergen in there that I should be aware of in the future.
> 
> Ingredients: Chicken, ground rice, ground barley, malted barley, gelatin, vegetable glycerin, tapioca, brewers yeast, natural flavors (wtf does that mean?), fish oil, lecithin, salt, phosphoric acid, sorbic acid, mixed tocopherols, ascorbic acid.
> 
> ...


it's so hard to call something an allergic reaction, but she surely did have a reaction. 

one that she didn't have with her chicken backs......

i think it's a good idea to not give treats during transition. give her a chance to adapt.


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## minnieme (Jul 6, 2011)

Didn't fast for a full 24 hrs, but did skip breakfast as she was still in the grips of the mean diarrhea monster. Her stomach has settled though...she had a chicken back for a late lunch and life is good.  I'm sure the next poo won't be perfect, but I am SO RELIEVED to pinpoint the culprit. And hey, Giardia is strange like that too...it can come and go suddenly I've heard. But to me, this is pretty indicative of a nasty treat that we will avoid at all costs in the future. We'll continue to diligently monitor poo and say no to people's kind, but kind of icky, offers. Example: my sister wanted to give her a WHOLE CHEESEBURGER FROM BURGER KING last time we were over there. *sigh*


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## Northwoods10 (Nov 22, 2010)

WOW!! I am so glad you found out what the problem was!! Amazing that it was something so small, isn't it?! I'll have to keep that in mind because my Mom bought the dogs a bag of Zuke's treats...they've only had a couple and now I am wondering if we gave any to Remi last friday before his crazy episode of mudd butt!!! 

Sending healing tummy vibes to Minnie to get her tummy back on track and finally get to ENJOY raw!! 



minnieme said:


> Oddly enough, Minnie goes absolutely BONKERS CRAZY over milkbones. What gives? They're like the blandest crap you can eat!  As for beggin strips........... I'm amazed that people give that crap to their dogs.... They gross me out. And coming from someone who just butchered the hell out of a chicken..that seems strange.


Uh....Nallah LOVES whatever the treats are that she gets at the bank. We go thru the drive-thru every Monday morning and they give her a big nasty, food coloring filled dog treat. She's never had ANY issues from them so I let her eat it. I figure I stuff my face with someone HORRIBLE for me more than once a week, I might as well let her enjoy that treat from the bank that she starts drooling for as soon as we pull in!!! :laugh:


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## monkeys23 (Dec 8, 2010)

Great that you found the culprit!

Well I left a bag of good treats they can have at my moms and most everyone is trained to not give anything with grain in it. I even have the vet people trained not to give the grain filled crap they have and if its something traumatic like getting stitches out I'll try and remember to bring my own goodies.


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## Dog Walker (Dec 23, 2010)

I'm glad my dog has not had any cannon butt since we started raw in Janurary! He actually hasn't had any bad poops since then and he eats all kinds of bad things ( he has the habit of stealing food out of little kids hands, its nose heigh for him). The only treats I give him are this "duck sticks" ingredientss= duck breat and all natural flavorings. As far as neighbors giving out treats I don't worry about that cause my dog will not accept a treat on a walk (not even from me) and he is scared of my neighbors especially men and children. He wont touch the treats I use at our shelter (we use Charlee Bears) and for the longests time he hated milk bones.


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## minnieme (Jul 6, 2011)

Dog Walker said:


> I'm glad my dog has not had any cannon butt since we started raw in Janurary! He actually hasn't had any bad poops since then and he eats all kinds of bad things ( he has the habit of stealing food out of little kids hands, its nose heigh for him). The only treats I give him are this "duck sticks" ingredientss= duck breat and all natural flavorings. As far as neighbors giving out treats I don't worry about that cause my dog will not accept a treat on a walk (not even from me) and he is scared of my neighbors especially men and children. He wont touch the treats I use at our shelter (we use Charlee Bears) and for the longests time he hated milk bones.


Flaunt it some more, will ya!  lol...I'm jealous of all you easy transitioners, but I'm hoping that without her getting into any treats, that'll do the trick!


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## Dog Walker (Dec 23, 2010)

minnieme said:


> Flaunt it some more, will ya!  lol...I'm jealous of all you easy transitioners, but I'm hoping that without her getting into any treats, that'll do the trick!


Good luck!


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

I just tell people no, no treats, they are on a special diet. I guess people in Indiana are super polite - I can't remember one time someone has given my dogs a treat without asking first.


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## Paws&Tails (Sep 3, 2010)

Every time Spike is offered a treat by someone else, I can honestly tell them he can't have it. 'Cause he's allergic to it. He can't have cooked chicken or beef, absolutely no grains and some select vegetables that have been cooked. This limits quite a lot of treats for him. Especially the crappy ones most people have.

One time, someone offered it to Spike without even asking and I had to swipe it really fast, just as Spike was starting to take it out of their hand. I was super embarrassed, but I explained that he has horrible food allergies, and he'd be miserable in about an hour if given that treat. They were pretty understanding. But seriously. Isn't it common knowledge to ask??


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