# Changed feeding stuff



## trikerdon (May 14, 2011)

I am changing from RMB to Before Grain Dog Food . It comes in Buffalo, Chicken, Salmon and Pork. Rates 5 stars. 
I still will give her some raw though. 
I'm doing this because I just can't believe she is getting everything she requires from what I give her. 
Anyhow she has been on the Before Grain Dog Food now for about three days. Today I put some chicken in a plate and set it next to the BGDFood and she went right to the BGDFood. The chicken is still there.

Before Grain Dry Dog Food | Review and Rating

Ingredients: 
Buffalo deboned, chicken meal, potato dehydrated, turkey meal, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols a source of vitamin E, sweet potato dehydrated, yeast culture, natural flavor, blueberry dried, organic alfalfa, salt, sodium phosphate, salmon oil, choline chloride, Yucca schidigera extract, zinc amino acid complex, chicory root, marigold extract, rosemary extract, dried Lactobacillus plantarum fermentation product, dried Enterococcus faecium fermentation product, dried Lactobacillus casei fermentation product, dried Lactobacillus acidophilus fermentation product, iron amino acid complex, vitamin E supplement, manganese amino acid complex, vitamin A supplement, vitamin B12 supplement, copper amino acid complex, d-calcium pantothenate, vitamin D3, niacin, lecithin, riboflavin supplement, biotin, ethylenediamine dihydriodide, pyridoxine hydrochloride, cobalt amino acid complex, folic acid, thiamine mononitrate, sodium selenite


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## minnieme (Jul 6, 2011)

Are you concerned about not enough variety in her diet?? I'm confused.


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

I am sorry you feel that, I am newish to raw feeding also and just the dogs behavior without all the physical changes is enough to satisify me that they are happy and satidfied. I hope she does well.


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## monkeys23 (Dec 8, 2010)

You could do better kibble wise IMO. Also prey model raw is way better than any kibble out there. I don't understand why you can't believe its giving the dog all it needs.

And hell a little kid is gonna choose Cheetos over apple slices.... doesn't mean they are better for them.... :wink:


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## JayJayisme (Aug 2, 2009)

minnieme said:


> Are you concerned about not enough variety in her diet?? I'm confused.


Read through trikerdon's other posts. He never seemed to be convinced that a diet of RMBs and organs was ever enough, always trying to find "approval" of some sort of vegetable matter added to the diet. I'm not surprised that he has caved into kibble, which is really a shame. 

Alfalfa? Really Don? Well, hopefully you'll come to your senses and go back to raw soon. We really tried to be supportive and keep you on the right path. Sorry it didn't work out.


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## minnieme (Jul 6, 2011)

I don't think raw is the only way to feed..... but if my dog was acclimated to it fairly well, I don't think I could turn back. 

There are many many many successful ways to feed a dog -- I hope they can do alright on this one.


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## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

What makes you think she isn't getting everything she needs? What makes you think that a dog food is any more nutritious? Dogs are carnivores. They don't need all that extra stuff.


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## tem_sat (Jun 20, 2010)

trikerdon said:


> I am changing from RMB to Before Grain Dog Food . It comes in Buffalo, Chicken, Salmon and Pork. Rates 5 stars.
> I still will give her some raw though.


After my Doxie has his first dental, I decided to switch to combo kibble + raw. 6 months later he was showing signs of needing a second dental. Mind you, this included daily teeth brushing. Be sure to keep a close eye on your pet's teeth. It does not take long to start seeing signs of tartar and plaque. Good luck with your decision.


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## Northwoods10 (Nov 22, 2010)

I wish you the best of luck with your decision.

But with that said- since this is posted in the raw section- I'm going to voice my opinion about raw. 

As great as raw is, its NOT a miracle diet. Be realistic about it, and don't expect to see HUGE changes right away. I remember the first time you posted about introducing raw and it wasn't all that long ago. Not nearly enough time to give it time to fully work its magic, IMO. I think for us, it took a good 6 months before we started to see everything raw has to offer. 

You don't need 18 proteins to make raw work. Sure, more variety is ideal, but its certainly not crucial. My dogs, among many others I am sure, do just fine on a base diet of about 5 proteins and a few extras they get throughout the year, depending on the season. 

The biggest thing that baffles me is how you can think that a cooked/processed diet can be more nutirionally sound for a carnivore than a raw diet. It just doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. 

Of course there are "wrong" ways to feed raw, you have to make sure you are balancing over time....but if you follow a few guidelines, its fool proof. Mother nature kept things simple for a reason. 

I'll stop now, and I truly do wish you luck with your decision, I just don't understand it.


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## sozzle (May 18, 2011)

trikerdon said:


> I am changing from RMB to Before Grain Dog Food . It comes in Buffalo, Chicken, Salmon and Pork. Rates 5 stars.
> I still will give her some raw though.
> I'm doing this because I just can't believe she is getting everything she requires from what I give her.
> Anyhow she has been on the Before Grain Dog Food now for about three days. Today I put some chicken in a plate and set it next to the BGDFood and she went right to the BGDFood. The chicken is still there.


I agree that after reading through your previous posts you weren't convinced that you dog could possibly be getting all she needs from a raw diet. 
I think you have been brainwashed by all the 'magical' ingredients in kibble and advertising hype which is a shame.
Anyway all the best and make sure you give your dog some raw meaty bones on a regular basis.


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## trikerdon (May 14, 2011)

JayJayisme said:


> Read through trikerdon's other posts. He never seemed to be convinced that a diet of RMBs and organs was ever enough, always trying to find "approval" of some sort of vegetable matter added to the diet. I'm not surprised that he has caved into kibble, which is really a shame.
> 
> Alfalfa? Really Don? Well, hopefully you'll come to your senses and go back to raw soon. We really tried to be supportive and keep you on the right path. Sorry it didn't work out.


No I never was looking for "vegetable matter" That is why I am using Before Grains. If you look at the dry dog food ratings you will see it is one of the top 5. Yes, I was always worried about her not getting all the right stuff because she doesn't really like liver and other internal organs, etc. I'm still giving her some RMB's such as the pork ribs and chicken legs/thighs.


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## cprcheetah (Jul 14, 2010)

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions and has to do what works well for their own dogs. Zoey wouldn't eat organs for a really long time without me searing them, slightly cooking them etc. So I finally made up a 'ground' mixture so to speak and included everything in it, the organs, the meat, the calcium etc, then froze them in ice cube trays, she ate them with gusto, now she doesn't get a choice, if she doesn't want to eat the organs, she goes hungry till the next meal. She hasn't missed a meal in a long long time. I have bloodwork to prove that Zoey's healthy and is getting everything she needs. I do hope you will keep giving your dog the RMB's although personally my belief is that Raw is the best option out there.


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

Well, that's a shame. 

I'm not sure what you hope to get out of an overly-processed diet that you don't think a raw diet will give. 

Best of luck. Start saving money for the dentals.


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## Angelwing (Feb 20, 2011)

That's too bad that you're going back to processed dry food. I personally feel feeding raw is the most appropriate diet for dogs, and feeding natural foods is important to me. I recently went to a nutritional consult and have slightly revamped my diet. Adding tripe as a daily thing, adding crushed eggshells, fish oil and vit e everyday as well as a multivitamin. But good luck with the dry dog food.


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

PuppyPaws said:


> Well, that's a shame.
> 
> I'm not sure what you hope to get out of an overly-processed diet that you don't think a raw diet will give.
> 
> Best of luck. Start saving money for the dentals.


My thoughts too the tee!

Other then also, grooming(hair/skin needs...I know BCs and Aussies both blow VERY badly,) possible allergies and more!!:frown:


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## JayJayisme (Aug 2, 2009)

trikerdon said:


> No I never was looking for "vegetable matter" That is why I am using Before Grains.


Sorry Don, but in this thread from June 25th, not even a month into feeding Sheba raw, you asked about "Glop", which has a liberal amount of "vegetable matter".

http://dogfoodchat.com/forum/raw-feeding/9089-glop.html

Then on June 26th, you seemed intrigued with the idea of supplementing with sunflower oil (vegetable matter).

http://dogfoodchat.com/forum/raw-feeding/9602-sunflower-oil.html

Then on July 14th, you inquired about supplementing with glucosamine, based on the apparent fear that there wasn't enough provided by raw.

http://dogfoodchat.com/forum/raw-feeding/9370-supplementing-raw-question-3.html

Most recently, you tried to feed Sheba raw coconut oil (vegetable matter).

http://dogfoodchat.com/forum/raw-feeding/10038-raw-coconut-oil.html

I actually do read your posts, and yes, I have suspected since almost the beginning, that deep down, you've been suspect of raw being able to provide complete nutrition. You're not the first Don. People tend to think of everything in terms of what they know about human nutrition, which is mostly nothing. But they try to apply this "logic" to their dogs nonetheless. It's an incredibly difficult mindset to break free from.



trikerdon said:


> If you look at the dry dog food ratings you will see it is one of the top 5. Yes, I was always worried about her not getting all the right stuff because she doesn't really like liver and other internal organs, etc. I'm still giving her some RMB's such as the pork ribs and chicken legs/thighs.


You only started feeding raw in June. You've barely given this a chance, and you seem to base all your fears on the fact that your dog doesn't like organs. Many dogs don't. Mine don't. I have to doctor them up to get them to eat organ meat, and even then it's touch and go. At least your dog will eat chicken livers ( http://dogfoodchat.com/forum/raw-feeding/9191-whos-smart-one-here-2.html#post100438 ). If my dogs ate ANY liver, I'd jump for joy, buy it, feed it, and forget about everything else. Liver is all a dog needs in the organ department anyway, whether it's from a chicken or a hog or a steer.

I don't know who rated Before Grains so highly but I am suspect of any "ratings" of pet food that comes from anyone who fundamentally thinks pet food is a good concept to begin with. Five-star crap is still crap. It's just less crappy then four-star pet food.

As far as "vegetable matter", there is plenty in there, including;

sweet potato dehydrated
yeast culture
blueberry dried
organic alfalfa
Yucca schidigera extract
chicory root
marigold extract
rosemary extract

I wouldn't feed any of this stuff to my carnivore.

Well, I'm happy to hear she'll at least be getting some RMBs from time to time. I just wish you had really given raw a chance. Three months is hardly sufficient time to get truly comfortable with it if you start from a position of doubt, even if it's just a little doubt. I was convinced that if you could get past these little seeds of doubt, you'd do just fine. But at least you gave it a shot. I hope you'll reconsider raw some day soon and you are more comfortable with it the next time around.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

I'm sorry to read this. Half of my dogs still wont eat their organs, we just shove em down because I know that dogs have NO clue what is best for them...they just don't have that logic.

Its kinda like kids and getting them to eat their vegetables. Would you allow a human kid to choose NOT to eat their veggies, instead choosing a plate of sugary puffed crap? I sure hope not. 

I see your first post as you allowing your dog to choose the sugary puffed crap over the food she should be eating. Leaving it up to your dog to choose what is best for her is highly irresponsible. 

Best of luck.


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

You hav't been feeding raw correctly apparently to begin with, or you would be seeing some really amazing results. I wish you would give more time.


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## eternalstudent (Jul 22, 2010)

trikerdon said:


> I am changing from RMB to Before Grain Dog Food . It comes in Buffalo, Chicken, Salmon and Pork. Rates 5 stars.
> I still will give her some raw though.
> I'm doing this because I just can't believe she is getting everything she requires from what I give her.
> Anyhow she has been on the Before Grain Dog Food now for about three days. Today I put some chicken in a plate and set it next to the BGDFood and she went right to the BGDFood. The chicken is still there.
> ...


I don't think I could ever contemplate going away from feeding a diet of meat to a carnivore. To me that makes no sense. And the list above might be free of grains but it sure ain't free of vegetable / fruit matter, which will do nothing but give your dog worse teeth, high blood sugars and what is not turned into either of those will have to be picked up by you.

It is however, your choice, and you must be comfortable with it as I know you love you dog. Hope it works out for you.


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## Ania's Mommy (Feb 8, 2009)

How come you posted this in the raw section? We do't often rate kibbles here. Do you WANT someone to change your mind back to feeding raw? :tongue:

Or are you wanting someone to agree with you that a PMR diet isn't complete? Because I don't think you're going to get that here. 

Many of us have living, breathing, THRIVING proof that the only things a dog needs nutritionally is meat, bones, and organs. All that other stuff in "dog food" is unnecessary crap. 

It's not that there aren't enough "things" in a pmr diet. It's that there are waaaay too many in commercially produced food. Nature didn't get it wrong. In attempting to copy nature with a food that's easy and convenient, people got it wrong.

I really hope you reconsider your decision.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

Ania's Mommy said:


> How come you posted this in the raw section? We do't often rate kibbles here. Do you WANT someone to change your mind back to feeding raw? :tongue:
> 
> Or are you wanting someone to agree with you that a PMR diet isn't complete? Because I don't think you're going to get that here.
> 
> ...


i don't think it could be said any better than what you said...people got it wrong....that's deep. for real.

don...i look at my dogs.....and they never looked like this....health shows in skin on humans, fur on animals....teeth, energy...it just shows....my dogs are so black, they are almost blue, that's how shiny they are. their fur is soft and silky....their teeth are whiter than white....they are happy, energetic and one of them is almost twelve.

they never ever ever looked this good on kibble or acted this way. 

i wish you would reconsider...and if you don't think they are getting enough nutrients, just go to nutritiondata.com and plug in what you're feeding...Nutrition facts, calories in food, labels, nutritional information and analysis – NutritionData.com

and you'll see that what kibble companies have to add back in, such as marigolds and sweet potatoes.....raw food already has it contained....

wait. i get it.

you still think dogs are omnivores and that's what has you worried. man, are you wrong. and i'm sorry for your dog that you never were convinced....

as linsey says, best to save up for dentals and IBD.


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## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

I'm not sure where you got the idea that PMR doesn't have everything a dog needs. It may not have any ingredients in it as a dog food does but most of the ingredients in a dog food should never be given to a dog anyway. I have watched my 8 year old smooth collie go from a dull coated, lazy, stinky breathed, brown toothed, slightly soft couch potato to a shiny, active, odorless breathed, clean toothed, muscular herding dog. I have watched my bluetick coonhound pup grow up with no kibble belly, develop rock hard muscles, and he gets RAVING reviews from our vet. 

The proof is in the pudding... or should I say dog? 

Provided you are doing it right, there is no better diet than PMR. June? Really? And you are already quitting? I am sorry to hear that. Sorry that your dog will have to go back to eating kibble... Yea, I know she will be getting some RMBs, but adding kibble is a downgrade. 

If you really want to know how to firm up her poo, just ask me. I can help you firm up that poo in a matter of a couple of days. All without having to feed kibble. There's nothing to it, really. I am being serious here. If you ever want to know how to do it, I will be more than willing to help.


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