# A little worried



## MissusMac (Jan 6, 2011)

I mentioned in my post the other day that Miko seems to have gotten thinner since we started feeding PMR a month ago, but it is evident now that he has lost weight. We upped the amount we're feeding him to 2 lbs per day, but so far we haven't seen a difference, and he has been significantly more lethargic lately and the only change has been diet. Before we started the diet we'd been commenting almost daily on how much muscle he was getting, but now he almost seems to have lost some.

Should we be moving on to a new protein faster? He's only been on chicken with one or two meals of wild turkey, but we haven't found good deals on pork yet so we've been in no hurry to move him on to that.

My husband is already skeptical of this diet and he said he'd rather keep a dog alive for the standard 12-14 years on a high quality kibble than risk our baby's life on an controversial diet. 

I don't want to throw in the towel, but I can't deny that the changes we're seeing in our pup thus far. Is the raw diet just not right for some dogs? I have a hard time believing it, but I also know that all dogs are different, just like people.

Our vet doesn't support the diet, so I can't imagine what she'd say if we brought him in about this, but he does have an appointment next week.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Do you know how much weight he has lost? Like gotten him on the scale to see for sure? Some people swear their dogs have lost weight when they really haven't lost any at all. I'm not saying that your dog hasn't lost weight, but its a good thing to keep track of weight history. 

When did you add in the wild turkey? What parts of the wild turkey did you feed?

How long has he been on raw so far?


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## SilverBeat (Jan 16, 2011)

Are you only feeding him chicken? He should be eating at least 2 protein sources by now and starting on a third, according to: Getting Started (quick start) | Prey Model Raw if you've had him on raw for a month.


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## MissusMac (Jan 6, 2011)

Over two days last week, Miko had (along with chicken backs) a turkey neck and 2 legs distributed over two days.

We feed him once a day, at night after we eat dinner, so we were debating whether to feed him earlier in the day to give him more energy... what do you think?

We're going to weigh him tomorrow, then we'll know for sure. 

We started feeding raw on February 4th.


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## candiceb (Jan 22, 2010)

I think it's important to remember that dogs fed raw are naturally much more lean than kibble fed dogs. It may be that your dog is simply changing his shape, and you are not quite adjusted to it yet. Even dogs that didn't look fat before would look fat if compared pre- and post-raw feeding. 

That said, I would probably try to start putting him on other proteins. Pork is higher in fat, and should help. Try shopping at La Michoacana over on Texas Ave. past Villa Maria in Bryan. Or try checking the Bryan HEB, they typically have more sales than the College Station HEB. (Or at least they did last year.) You are taking him to the vet soon, so have a fecal run just to make sure he hasn't picked up a parasite. But don't let the vet (or your husband) scare you away from raw. Stick it out, you'll come out on top I know.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Is today the first time he's been more lethargic than normal? Have you done any heavy exercise in the past few days? Anything overly stressful?

It might just be that he is having an "off" day....my dogs are like that. I wouldn't give up on raw just yet. 

I would continue to increase his rations as long as his body handles it ok. Also add in pork if you can. Variety is good, but dogs have been known to handle mostly chicken without issue for longer periods than just a few weeks. If anything it might have to do with the wild turkey...some different bacteria thats a bit harder to deal with or something.


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## MissusMac (Jan 6, 2011)

Thanks for the replies! I'll check out La Michoacana's prices on pork this weekend. We got some chickens there before but found whole ones cheaper at the Kroger on our side of town so we've been buying there. I'm also going to call Ruffino meats and see what they have.

We noticed the increased lethargy over this past weekend, but no, we are not giving up on raw that easily... I just want to make sure he's happy and healthy


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

When you fed kibble did you only feed once a day? If not, you might want to consider feeding twice a day until he is fully adjusted to a raw diet. That in itself should help.


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## luvMyBRT (Mar 8, 2010)

I agree to up what you are feeding a bit as long as his body handles it and he doesn't get any upset (diarrhea, vomiting). Trying to feed twice a day and see if it helps is another good suggestion.

My GSH Pointer was a little pudgy while on kibble. Her mid section would really fill out (she'd get fat) if I fed her too much....and it would fill out fast. Now on raw she is much much leaner. She doesn't get pudgy anymore. She even looks sleeker. It is quite a change and took a while for me to get used to. Not saying that this is what is happening....just something to maybe be aware of.

:smile:


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## jjcj (Nov 26, 2010)

pork makes my boy have horrible body odour and talking to a few other people pork doesn`t do well for them. 
Do you guys have access to cheaper cuts of beef
I found here i have to ask to get stuff that is available but not on the shelf a meat processer here fully supports raw feeding and has now made a entire section in the store for raw but still have to ask for the beef hearts and stuff.

They have lots of pork out but we stay away from that side

I am finding it better to ask some places. i have heard people getting beef scraps from the local grocery store for nothing just by asking on the right day

Another thought are you leaving the skin on the chicken yet if not try that and see if that bit of fat helps


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## MissusMac (Jan 6, 2011)

Miko was fed twice a day on kibble, but he got to where he wouldn't eat in the mornings right before we started raw, so we would put the morning ration in his ball dispenser thing and he would get it throughout the day. We're starting to feed him twice a day, starting today, to see if that will help with the lethargy.

I promise you I know what a healthy looking dog looks like, and huskies should definitely NOT be fat by any means, as they already have a high metabolism compared to most other breeds... but his hip bones are sticking up through his fur and something is just not right. However, I will admit that I have not raised a dog from a puppy on my own before, so this growing process is new to me.

We upped the meat content in his meals since the turkey, because I realized he was getting a lot of bone... if we follow the quickstart guide we should be adding in other proteins so we're going to look for pork today and hope we find some good cuts. It is still too soon to start on beef though, right? I really think he'd be fine, he hasn't had cannon butt at all since starting raw, and my husband has slipped him some raw deer meat from a roast on occasion to no consequence. I know too much variety too soon is bad, but maybe he does need a meat with a bit more fat content in it.

And yes, he has had skin on the chicken since the start because I'd given him a few pieces with skin on before and it didn't upset his tummy.

Thank you all for the help so far!


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

if i didn't know better, it sounds like he may not be getting enough fat....

chicken is not the richest protein around, but it is probably the easiest to digest and by far, the most economical....

your beautiful dog has been on chicken plus a tiny bit of deer plus a tiny bit of turkey....for a month....so he might be lacking in some nutrients provided by a variety of proteins...

since he's had no problems....and it's been a month....

i agree that maybe you should start another protein, like pork...


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## cprcheetah (Jul 14, 2010)

Zoey my chi and Shellie my golden have both slimmed up and are a lot 'leaner' than they were on kibble. How old is your pup? Puppies go through 'gangly' stages where they are skinnier than at other times, we went through that with Ziva. If a dog is super active they will need a lot more food than if they are pretty sedate. Ziva needs a lot more food than Zoey does to maintain. We fed chicken for 2 weeks, then added pork, then the next week added beef. My girls have done pretty good/had easy transitions with different proteins.


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## MissusMac (Jan 6, 2011)

Someone on another forum just suggested more beef/beef heart because it sounds like he could be lacking in iron. I bet this is the problem, and now I'm really worried because there are no actual butchers in town that sell beef heart (except for one place which sells it in a 60lb case ONLY) so I'm going to have to go from grocery to grocery asking what they have but I don't think anywhere except the mexican market will have organs and it is on the other side of town... I'm going to run to the store on my lunch break and get some beef and pork to feed him and get some more nutrients in him. 

I feel like a bad mommy, but the guide said to start slow, but I guess there is definitely such a thing as too slow.


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## bumblegoat (May 12, 2010)

You could also feed blood if you want to add more iron to the diet. If you can't get fresh/frozen blood you could go with dehydrated blood. It's like blood powder. Not sure where you can find that in the US though, or what it's called. Here it is usually sold as a supplement for dogs.


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

Hi
It sounds like he ia a young boy. With my collies they go through a very lean time and it is almost impossible to keep weight on them even when I fed kibble. They went from well muscled fit pups to gangly almost scrawny teens and yes I could feel hips and too many ribs for my comfort easily. For mine it was a stage but I had to up their food drastically and that just kept them from looking sickly. They filled out after about 6 months and looked wonderful. Again, just a suggestion because I don't know how old he is. You might ask the breeder if they commonly go through a very lean stage during their growth.


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## MissusMac (Jan 6, 2011)

Liz said:


> Hi
> It sounds like he ia a young boy. With my collies they go through a very lean time and it is almost impossible to keep weight on them even when I fed kibble. They went from well muscled fit pups to gangly almost scrawny teens and yes I could feel hips and too many ribs for my comfort easily. For mine it was a stage but I had to up their food drastically and that just kept them from looking sickly. They filled out after about 6 months and looked wonderful. Again, just a suggestion because I don't know how old he is. You might ask the breeder if they commonly go through a very lean stage during their growth.


He just turned 8 months old last Thursday.

Okay, I took my lunch hour to go to the store and I picked up pork necks, pork hocks, beef cheek, and liver. I ran home and gave Miko about 1/2 lb of beef cheek and a tiny piece of liver about the size of my thumbnail. Within 10 minutes he was acting better, and he has agility tonight so I hope he's feeling up to it. 

The beef cheek seemed meaty, so I hope that is okay? They also had beef tripe but it didn't look like it had much to it... is that good to feed?

Also, what are "tripas"? There was some packaged meat called tripas but I didn't get any because I didn't know what it was


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Beef cheek meat is awesome! Great find.

Tripe sold at grocery stores is pretty useless to a dog because it is bleached. Tripas is the same thing as tripe.


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## MissusMac (Jan 6, 2011)

The tripas I saw looked more like meat, and there was some blood in the packaging whereas what was labeled as beef tripe was, as you say, bleached looking. Do you think the tripas was just unbleached tripe?


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## luvMyBRT (Mar 8, 2010)

Along with the things mentioned above that he may need....I wonder if he may be going through a growth spurt? I have noticed with Duncan that he will seem to grow "up" and it makes him appear "skinner" and leaner. When I notice this I will increase his food a bit (he is a 9 month old large breed pup) After he is done growing up, he then fills out.....

Just another possibility....maybe...? :tongue:


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## schtuffy (May 17, 2010)

My Louis went through the same thing about 3-4 weeks into raw. He was probably a little pudgy on kibble, but it's so hard to tell by looking because he has such thick fur. There were other ways though...a squishy belly, some minor fatty deposits under the armpits...the weight range for his breed is 11-20 lbs, and a month into raw he had lost 3 lbs, which is a lot for his size. I was so worried but eventually he put some weight on (either that or I got used to it)...he still weighs less than when he was on kibble, but I wouldn't call him skinny. He is just more with a lot more muscle definition now.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

MissusMac said:


> He just turned 8 months old last Thursday.
> 
> Okay, I took my lunch hour to go to the store and I picked up pork necks, pork hocks, beef cheek, and liver. I ran home and gave Miko about 1/2 lb of beef cheek and a tiny piece of liver about the size of my thumbnail. Within 10 minutes he was acting better, and he has agility tonight so I hope he's feeling up to it.
> 
> ...


sounds like you did exactly what the baby needed.....sounds like he was hungry and needed something other than chicken.

if his stools get loose, just give some chicken frames or backs and they should firm right up again...beef heart is real rich...

Tripas, also known as Machitos, in Mexican cuisine are the small intestines of farm animals that have been cleaned, boiled and grilled.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

bumblegoat said:


> You could also feed blood if you want to add more iron to the diet. If you can't get fresh/frozen blood you could go with dehydrated blood. It's like blood powder. Not sure where you can find that in the US though, or what it's called. Here it is usually sold as a supplement for dogs.


ethnic stores sell edible blood here in the states. i saw it at uwajimaya.....our asian market.


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