# Ok...questions....



## FL Cracker (May 4, 2011)

Well were at the one month - 5 week mark on the raw diet....and our main "staple" is Chicken. 
Now CoCo has been slowly introduced into a variety of other foods...but over the past month have noticed a few things when fed chicken. 
Every morning CoCo has a thick "goop" under both eyes...some would call it "sleep under your eye's". 
It almost looks like chicken fat...but is much thinner. 
Also I have noticed that CoCo is chewing at her right leg...around the inside of her "knee" area...and the skin is white...cracked and dry looking. There is still hair there...but it just looks like she is "missing" something in her diet....not sure. 
I am in the midst of switching her main staple over from poultry to red meat...as it should be IMHO....and just signed up with a raw food co-op locally.
Any ideas about the chicken...ect would greatly be appreciated. ( I have started to remove a bulk of the fat)
Yesterday I hit the store and picked up Tripe...beef kidney...beef cheek...chicken necks...2 whole chickens..chicken hearts and sardines. I have also supplemented CoCo with some cod fish oil caps...and she is on 2 a day.
This morning she was chewing at her paw...and that's new....but stopped after a Benadryl. 
The spot on her "knee" is not bad...and is quite subtle...most would not even know it's there. It's NOT Demodex.... God know's we had our bout's with that with our other Rottie.
She has no "systemic" sign's of allergic reaction to chicken...red belly....other areas affected...just scratching "everywhere"....sometimes. We had a terrible spell with fleas about 2 months ago down here...and everyone was affected...but we have them under control now. 
Other than that were doing great...and she loves the raw. Her coat overall is soft...no dandruff or hair loss....and honestly I thought that the reason she was "chewing at her "knee" was because it was hurting her...."growing pains" 
She is about done teething...as her adult teeth are about all grown in...so that's good.
I looked at the local raw food co-op and found that they supported some "green tripe" produced by a Tefco company....looked them up on a search here yesterday. Thank goodness I did a search before I started a thread on it....as it looks like one of their rep's got in here and was less than cordial to say the least.:tsk:
Anyhow...here are a few pics of CoCo and her "spot". I can't say it's getting worse...it actually looks better than it did last week...so maybe the variety in diet has helped? I was looking into flax seed's...ect...but thought this would be the best place to start. I will try to shoot a pic of the "sleep" in CoCo's eyes in the am...but for the most part that's the only time it's there....when she wakes up.
Sorry to run on...TIA for any insight.


----------



## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

Looks like dry skin, no additives in the chicken I gather? I wouldn't remove the fat as it looks like she may need this for her skin. Could just be environmental allergies as well but it doesn't look like it from the picture. 

If you bought tripe from the grocery store it will have no nutritional value for the dog, it is bleached right? You want unbleached, untouched tripe that is either in large chunks for a good chew or ground.

The goobers could be some detox or just from the increased chewing that's putting more pressure on the tear ducts.


----------



## FL Cracker (May 4, 2011)

I should have been more specific regarding the removal of fat....I don't remove all of it...but the chunks at the neck of a whole fryer...ect. Thanks for the info on the tripe...yep it's bleached (white)....is it not good to feed? Is there zero benefit to feeding it? She does chew a lot since she is "new" to the prey diet...and that would make sense. Thanks for the input...and I have not done much with the spot...as it seems to be clearing up...and she is not chewing at it nearly as much as she was.
It could have been the fleas too....she had her poor butt chewed darn near raw from those little [email protected] I continue to give her apple cider vinegar with her food...and she actually likes it.


----------



## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

as white leo said, i wouldn't remove the fat at all. dogs need fat.

at the stage where she is, i'd say she's detoxing.

i'd stop the cod liver oil as it has a lot of vitamin A in it.

instead i would switch her to a fish or animal oil, which is more appropriate as she is a dog....

and i would not give her any vinegar until she is done transitioning which can take up to a year...

the worst thing we humans do is mess with a tried and true diet....and we don't realise that the animal has to get rid of the old, make a few changes on the inside so they can become new again with this diet.....

the same thing happens to people when they add or give up certain items, such as salt or sugar....

it takes about a year for a dog to fully transition.....and all kinds of goopies and goppies and itchies and scratchies can happen, even to the point of losing hair...


----------



## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Is the chicken you feed enhanced?


----------



## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

DaneMama said:


> Is the chicken you feed enhanced?


ah, the question i always forget to ask.


----------



## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

I think I asked it already! in the first post!


----------



## Northwoods10 (Nov 22, 2010)

Could it be that her body is still adjusting to the new diet? 

I've noticed lately all 3 of my dogs are having eye "goop" in the mornings. Allergens are almost at peak here now, pollen everywhere and everything in bloom. My allergies are off the wall too. 

As everyone mentioned, check to see if the chicken you are feeding is enhanced. If it is, I'd look for something that isn't. Sometimes they add salt/broth to the chicken which can contribute to a variety of different problems. 

I think that as you start to feed more red meat, some of these issues may subside as well. 

Good luck!


----------



## FL Cracker (May 4, 2011)

No enhanced meat...and I make sure of it....( I get my meat from a local butcher...not that it means anything...but I asked) I'm picky.
I still freeze poultry for 24 hours then thaw...feed....most of the time. I "worry" about salmonella somewhat...even though the dog's "carry" some of it in their digestive system? Kind of like us and MRSA in the nasal mucosa.
The venison was from Oct...so that was fine. Thanks for the confirmation on this....the wife want's to take CoCo to the vet...and it became an "argument". I say "why...so the vet can find out I feed a prey diet, have no clue, scrape some skin off and irritate the area more, then prescribe Keflex, and tell me to put her on a balanced kibble". Honestly the area is not that bad...and she does scratch here and there...no where near as much when she had the fleas...that was brutal.
No thanks...I will put the money into her diet.


----------



## london2001 (May 22, 2011)

Hello FL Cracker! It might not be the food that is causing your dog problems - think about the time of the year, its spring and there's lots of pollen around and dogs don't get the same symptoms as humans do, they itch and scratch all over instead - a bit like your dog! WOuld also explain why that benadryl pill worked that you mentioned... 

hope this helps - good luck!


----------



## eternalstudent (Jul 22, 2010)

Out of curiosity how old is CoCo?

Becka gets eye goops most mornings, I have to say I have never been that worried about it. When her eyes where irritated the goop changed and I could smell a difference and the colour and amount also changed. There would be other signs like red eye as well which is good to look out for.

I cant see from the pictures, but is there much redness in the dry skin area or is it just flaky white skin?

I would take the wait and see attitude for the moment and stick with the diet. If he can handle the fats then leave all of it on as others have suggested. And I would look to add in fresh oily fish to the diet in the near future.


----------



## FL Cracker (May 4, 2011)

london2001 said:


> Hello FL Cracker! It might not be the food that is causing your dog problems - think about the time of the year, its spring and there's lots of pollen around and dogs don't get the same symptoms as humans do, they itch and scratch all over instead - a bit like your dog! WOuld also explain why that benadryl pill worked that you mentioned...
> 
> hope this helps - good luck!


Maybe... our Corgi has terrible pollen allergies...thank goodness it's over...and he is good now that our spring is "over". Were on to Summer already...been in the 90's for over 2 weeks. I/we are in FL...and our Pollen Season was brutal in Feb/March...and our A/C has been running since then.
Now I'm not saying that you are full of "windpuddin"....because I believe that's a valid concern...but I would "assume" that a true allergy would be "non selective"...and affect her entire body versus a spot on her leg. 
The Mrs's is an RN...hence the Benadryl...and CoCo is still scratching...despite...but not at her feet.
I did figure out why she was licking/chewing at her feet. I cleaned the carpet with our carpet cleaner (wet)...and after I walked on the carpet that was still damp with bare feet...my feet started itching...had to be the cleaner...which I diluted so I thought it would not irritate the pup's bud still did. Our Corgi is used to it...this was the first time CoCo had been exposed to it.
I never thought of "detox"....and that makes some sense...because after I started CoCo out on raw...the crap coming out of the back end for a week and a half was appalling.

Here is our Corgi in March...


----------



## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Seems to me more like seasonal allergies more than anything else, based on your descriptions and pictures. I would continue to feed your dogs just like you have been. Keep an eye on ant potential hot spots...


----------



## FL Cracker (May 4, 2011)

eternalstudent said:


> Out of curiosity how old is CoCo?
> 
> Becka gets eye goops most mornings, I have to say I have never been that worried about it. When her eyes where irritated the goop changed and I could smell a difference and the colour and amount also changed. There would be other signs like red eye as well which is good to look out for.
> 
> ...


No breaks in the skin...no redness...looks like your hands when they get dry in the winter...or if you have been washing them too much with an alcohol based hand cleaner and need lotion. . There is no dandruff or flaking off of the skin...just dry and "cracked". I have Aloe plants growing out back...and have cut a few and applied that topically to her butt where she chewed it from the fleas. It helped a bit...it certainly kept things soft and less dry/irritated. Obviously getting rid of the fleas was the biggest help. Her hiney is almost cleared up now...and looks so much better.
I don't mind the "goop"...and there is no odor to it. One swipe and it's gone...honestly she appreciates it...and let's me wipe it without pulling away. It's pretty much there every time she get's up from a nap...(minimal) or in the am after sleeping all night. (moderate-heavy goopage). 
No redness or continued drainage at all to her eyes. 
She loves fish...but short of canned sardines...in water...I'm still trying to figure out what a good safe fish is to give. I can give it whole (gutted)correct? 
Finding whole fish here is not as easy as going to the grocery...probably have to hit the fish market.... I should hit the Gulf and catch whiting on the beach....and might stock up when they are biting. I have a friend that goes fishing a lot...and I'm sure he would swap me some fresh whiting for venison anytime.

On a side note what percentage of your meat is poultry on a percentage basis, after your dog has adjusted to the raw diet?

Thank you everyone for your input...certainly helps. CoCo is 5 mo old on the 29th of May.


----------



## Amy18 (May 17, 2011)

Lexie has been getting the eye goop too. i usually clean her face once a day with a warm washcloth but now im noticing these large eye goops floating in her eyes like a film, she's never had this before and its pretty gross to clean out. I'll be switching her to mostly red meats soon too, so is there a link between chicken and the eye goops? will they stop once shes on red meats


----------



## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

there is a link to eye goop and detoxing and seasonal environmental allergies....heck, i get eye goop....


----------



## FL Cracker (May 4, 2011)

Amy18 said:


> Lexie has been getting the eye goop too. i usually clean her face once a day with a warm washcloth but now im noticing these large eye goops floating in her eyes like a film, she's never had this before and its pretty gross to clean out. I'll be switching her to mostly red meats soon too, so is there a link between chicken and the eye goops? will they stop once shes on red meats


I'm not sure...but I am keeping a close eye (HaHa) on it in my journal. Over the next week were reducing the amount of poultry and making the switch to more red meats. 
I just got off the phone with a gal that is the "head" of a raw food co-op here in Central FL....and I will be getting in on the next order...and that will help in making the conversion...while keeping it affordable. One of the hardest parts is making sure CoCo get's plenty of bone in her diet. Chicken seems to be the easiest to grind up...and digest...so I am reading up on alternative RMB's that will suffice as an alternative. I worry that CoCo would just swallow a rib bone...and give her an obstruction...but I guess that the digestive track will not have a problem breaking that down?


----------



## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

Pork ribs are great for a bone in meal and it is easily digestible and not too dense. I just make sure that the meat hasn't been enhanced which has been a chore lately as people want meat that just falls off the bone when cooked.


----------



## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

FL Cracker said:


> I'm not sure...but I am keeping a close eye (HaHa) on it in my journal. Over the next week were reducing the amount of poultry and making the switch to more red meats.
> I just got off the phone with a gal that is the "head" of a raw food co-op here in Central FL....and I will be getting in on the next order...and that will help in making the conversion...while keeping it affordable. One of the hardest parts is making sure CoCo get's plenty of bone in her diet. Chicken seems to be the easiest to grind up...and digest...so I am reading up on alternative RMB's that will suffice as an alternative. I worry that CoCo would just swallow a rib bone...and give her an obstruction...but I guess that the digestive track will not have a problem breaking that down?


it's not hard to get enough bone for your dog.

and grinding does nothing for her teeth or her ability to digest. you are not doing her any favours.....by grinding.

you're taking her pleasure and her work away from her.

anyone can get an obstruction and it doesn't have to be from bone and that speaks to dogs and humans and any living thing that eats.

give your dog a bone......let her crunch and swallow.....have a martini whilst she's doing it, but give your dog a bone.

and she is the rotti in the picture? give your dog a slab of 3-4 connected pork ribs after she gets used to chicken leg quarters and turkey necks....

there are lots of boney foods to feed dogs.....pork ribs, lamb ribs, all chicken bones....goat ribs, venison ribs....lamb necks, and many many more.....

you made a great step in giving her raw food...now it's time to let go of your last fear and give her a real raw meal : )


----------



## FL Cracker (May 4, 2011)

magicre said:


> it's not hard to get enough bone for your dog.
> 
> and grinding does nothing for her teeth or her ability to digest. you are not doing her any favours.....by grinding.
> 
> ...


Sorry to mis-inform... I don't grind anything up...she does the grinding with her teeth. 
It was tough for her with the puppy teeth to grind anything short of chicken necks... backs...ect....but now were on to whole quarters...and I'm certainly comfortable giving her anything she can handle...but would prefer a nice smooth transition to heavier duty bones until her teeth are fully developed. She was grinding her teeth real hard weeks ago, because she just didn't have the dental work to cut the chicken fat she was trying to swallow. That's no longer a problem at all...and that's where I'm at....so slobbing down an entire beef rib bone is not a problem?...because I know she will do it. Now she is lick...grab...chew once...crack bone...chew again...and swallow....repeat.


----------



## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

FL Cracker said:


> Sorry to mis-inform... I don't grind anything up...she does the grinding with her teeth.
> It was tough for her with the puppy teeth to grind anything short of chicken necks... backs...ect....but now were on to whole quarters...and I'm certainly comfortable giving her anything she can handle...but would prefer a nice smooth transition to heavier duty bones until her teeth are fully developed. She was grinding her teeth real hard weeks ago, because she just didn't have the dental work to cut the chicken fat she was trying to swallow. That's no longer a problem at all...and that's where I'm at....so slobbing down an entire beef rib bone is not a problem?...because I know she will do it. Now she is lick...grab...chew once...crack bone...chew again...and swallow....repeat.


ah, gotcha.....

not all dogs can actually eat a beef rib, grind-crunch crunch...but i suppose if any dog can, it would a rotti with those jaws..

the idea is to make the dog work...not to see how hard a bone he can eat...if you get my drift....

i give my dogs whole lamb necks (not the ones you see all cut up in the store, but whole ones) they don't eat the bone, but it takes them an hour to get the meat out of each nook and cranny....your rotti might be able to eat the neck itself....but not before he works at getting the meat off....that's the fun and the work....make sense?

and you'll be feeding three or four pork rib slabs to your dog, plus lamb ribs and venison ribs and even calf ribs and lordie there are all kinds of bones you'll be able to feed...just don't feed big cow legs or knees or femurs or marrow bones or soup bones or anything from an animal weighing a ton.


----------



## FL Cracker (May 4, 2011)

Ok...so I will start out looking for some pork ribs...and lamb necks to transition into. Venison ribs I will have in the fall...and I plan on having at least 12 to 24 set's of them....so quartered up will be nice to have for her to have around. Thanks for the input.... like I said my biggest concern was her swallowing an entire rib bone....but I must say...she must be able to digest bones pretty well...because there aren't any in her poop despite her gulping down a chicken leg. Just nice solid poop...not runny or white hard crumbly stuff.
Thanks for the help.


----------



## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

in the beginning, dogs can be 'stupid' eaters....generally once they get the hang of it.....they're fine....

even now, a year later, i watch my dogs eat.....it's just the safe thing to do....i think.

she'll be fine...

my 20 lb pug swallowed an entire drumstick...he regurgitated it up about 5 times...it was delightful...LOL


----------



## FL Cracker (May 4, 2011)

Just an "update"....and question.

First...CoCo is doing great on the raw diet...were "full tilt" now. Pork, fish, beef, chicken, veal, venison, beef heart, kidney's, all kinds of goodies without incident.

Question... has anyone noticed increased eye goop when they started their dog's on a raw diet? Every morning CoCo has a yellow almost fat looking goop in/on the bottom of her eyes. They are not red or irritated, and she is not bothered by it. Once I wipe it out...she's her regular old self. Could this be a product of too much fat in her diet. Her stool is fine....not white, yellow, or runny...just nice firm poop.
The darn thing about it...our Corgi started getting yellow goo out of his eye in the am too...and was just curious if this is "pink eye"? Or just a detoxification symptom. We recently switched our Corgi over to a "better Kibble"...(I know why not raw...the Mrs's dog....and I'm not getting into it again).
I read through multiple threads regarding...and I will try to get some pics in the am.

TIA for any insight.


----------



## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

Mine were pretty gross looking for a bit. Around the fourth week in their eyes were gunky, they has gas and most of them dumped their coat. I brushed until my shoulders ached. About a month later their eyes were clear and they were getting luscious coats, plus their white was sparkly white even my ten years white looked like a puppy's. I think they were detoxing all the junk they had been getting. My puppies we weaned onto raw and have never had those issues just gorgeous coats, teeth, eyes, and muscle tone.


----------



## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

yep. what liz says....and then some.

they smelled like what they ate....and we had them on chicken for about four weeks, so they smelled like raw chicken. lovely.

my pug's ears were terrible, worse than when we got him, his eyes were goopy.....

they both had the runs, but that one was on me...

even still, they were pretty disgusting as they detoxed...and then suddenly one day, it went away. just like that.


----------



## FL Cracker (May 4, 2011)

Ok...excellent. Thank you for the positive re-enforcement....were on week 5-6 right now with the raw diet. Regarding her coat...she had a spot on her rear leg that was loosing a bit of hair...but has since gotten better. I never even thought about here ears...but recently got some ear wash (AloeClens)to keep them clean. Nothing with antibiotics just plain old ear wash...and they have improved dramatically. They had scrapes, dirt, and a slight odor...but think most of that was from some playing over a friends place last weekend. They have a Border Collie...and these two were non stop for almost half the day. Seems like a pound of dirt was washed off CoCo after we got home. She had fun though.


----------



## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

forgot to mention that both bubba and malia lost hair during detox....bubba's is still growing back, whilst malia's is...i wish i had her hair LOL

glad to hear she is doing well..it only gets better from here...


----------



## Chocx2 (Nov 16, 2009)

Fl Cracker, hi I also live in Florida, at this time of the year with the humidity building my dog has a problem with mites, there are all kinds of mites. If you have your AC on make sure your humidity is below 60 percent which makes an unfavorable enviroment for them. I thought my dog was allergic to pollens and stuff, tested her and it was all mites. Changed her diet to raw several years ago and fixed the humidity issue in my home and her issue is 100 percent better. I just make sure she is bathed with a soap that removes stuff off her surface. I use to leave my house open and I thought the nice breaze was great until I found out about mites!!


----------



## Chocx2 (Nov 16, 2009)

PS
did you find a co-op in Tampa area? I am still attempting to find something where I'm at which is Cape Coral. A drive to Tampa would not be out of the question.

I know this is off topic sorryhwell:


----------



## FL Cracker (May 4, 2011)

Chocx2 said:


> PS
> did you find a co-op in Tampa area? I am still attempting to find something where I'm at which is Cape Coral. A drive to Tampa would not be out of the question.
> 
> I know this is off topic sorryhwell:


In Central Florida...but they have drop off's at Seffner, Orlando, Brooksville, and there area a few members here in Tampa Bay. This will be my first order coming up...and it's a great group so far. I talked to the gal that run's it...and she was very helpful.

Not sure if this link will open for you?? CentralFLRawFoodCo-op : CentralFLrawfoodCo-op

CentralFLRawFoodCo-op is the name of the group....once you "apply" it only takes a day or so to get an email...confirmation link...and your good.


----------



## FL Cracker (May 4, 2011)

Here is some of the "goop" in CoCo's eye's in the am....it was not bad this morning.
Poor pup...she just got up...and I'm hitting her with a flash...


----------



## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

that's exactly what should be happening. it happened with so many dogs, including mine....but her coat is brilliant and her eyes are clear and happy.


----------



## FL Cracker (May 4, 2011)

magicre said:


> that's exactly what should be happening. it happened with so many dogs, including mine....but her coat is brilliant and her eyes are clear and happy.


Yeah....her coat is perfect...hardly any hair loss...so that's good. She had a thin spot here and there...but they are filling in fine. Thanks for the confidence that this is normal.


----------

