# Vegan Dogs...



## Cliffdog (Dec 30, 2010)

Eh...

Look on YouTube and search for "vegan dog" and you will find countless people feeding their dogs vegan/vegetarian diets. What do you think about that? I personally just don't understand... That's not what dogs are meant to eat so why would you force your dog that way? And yet the dogs do not seem to be altogether unhealthy... I don't know. Thoughts?

(sorry if this is in the wrong section!)


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## mischiefgrrl (Oct 28, 2010)

I saw a lot of vegan dogs at a vegan Thanksgiving potluck I went to. They all looked happy and healthy. 

Just not right for my dog. Grains make him chew himself bald. I listen to nature and my dog naturally thrives on meat. I do not crave it for myself so I don't eat it.


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## Cliffdog (Dec 30, 2010)

I just don't think it's right to go against nature that way... I mean an omnivore diet is healthiest for humans but as we ARE omnivores we CAN live on just meat or just veggie if we choose... dogs are not omnivores.


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## SpooOwner (Oct 1, 2010)

I have a hard time believing that vegan/vegetarian dogs are healthy. But if they are, then I have no complaints. Healthy, happy dogs are the end-goal, no matter how that goal is achieved.


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## SamWu1 (Oct 15, 2010)

Human vegans are generally (although not always) the ones that are "forcing" their pets to join them in their ethical or health choices of becoming vegan. 

Most people assume protein is protein, suggesting that beans, legumes, soy and other plant protein sources would nourish their pets just as well as themselves.

*Wrong!* I'm actually rather surprised that a person that would convert to veganism for their health purposes would be so ignorant of their pet's nutritional requirements. 

Not all protein sources are created the same. Proteins consists of different amino acids in different forms. Dogs require certain amino acids that are only available in animal sources, plant proteins simply does not contain them in which the animal will start showing signs of nutritional deficiencies.

Remember the incident a few years back when cats were becoming ill, some dying because their diet was deficient in taurine? Taurine is naturally abundant in meat, especially raw meat. It is an amino acid that plants cannot produce.

To make a long story short, carnivorous creatures *cannot* thrive on a vegan diet, from a biological stand point, it simply isn't possible. I had a vegan gentleman argue that there was a Border Collie named Bramble, lived to 27 years of age that has been fed nothing but fresh vegetables its entire life and the owner credited the animal's longevity to its vegan diet.

I responded that there are anomolies among dogs and humans as well, that from a genetic standpoint they're just predisposed to good health and are more resilient. Mr. George Burns was not an advocate for healthy living. He smoked, drank (although not excessively) and certainly wasn't vegan and lived a 100 years of full life. 

My best friend's sheperd mix lived 18 disease free years with little exercise and the cheapest kibble you can find and passed in her sleep. Meanwhile triathletes are dropping dead at 25, healthshake in hand. None of this is any viable evidence to me that a dog will do well on a vegan diet.

I've spoken with many vegan customers that had walked in my store asking for vegan dog food and their only reason is because of ethical beliefs and it infuriates me. What's inethical is you feeding your dog inappropiate food because of your ethics, probably the reason I got fired. End of rant. :biggrin:


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## werecatrising (Oct 15, 2010)

We see quite a few vegetarian dogs at the hospital(not sure about vegan). They all look surprisingly good. We also see a vegan cat. That is a different story. The cat is 3 years old and has lost most of her teeth. She is obese, has no muscle, and is constantly sick.


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## Cliffdog (Dec 30, 2010)

UGH. Cats cannot (healthily) survive at _all_ on a vegan diet. Unlike dogs they are incapable of retaining nutrients from vegetation. They do not produce amylase or taurine. How can people be so dumb?


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## werecatrising (Oct 15, 2010)

The doctors have told her time and time again she is killing her cat. She refuses to listen.


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## SamWu1 (Oct 15, 2010)

werecatrising said:


> We see quite a few vegetarian dogs at the hospital(not sure about vegan). They all look surprisingly good.


Perhaps they still get eggs and dairy, that helps a great deal.


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## SamWu1 (Oct 15, 2010)

werecatrising said:


> The doctors have told her time and time again she is killing her cat. She refuses to listen.


Too bad from a legal standpoint she can't be reported for animal cruelty, although that's essentially what it is even if her intentions are good but ultimately that cat is the one to suffer the consequences.


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## Siena (Nov 7, 2010)

werecatrising said:


> The doctors have told her time and time again she is killing her cat. She refuses to listen.


I actually just saw a Animal Cops episode where a lady fed her cats a vegetarian diet. This led to blindness, mental disorders, and eventually end stage organ failure. Cats simply cannot live on a vegetarian diet. Out of all of her cats (I think around 15), every single one of them had eye degeneration. I hope that lady feeding her cat a vegetarian diet opens her eyes soon.


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## Cliffdog (Dec 30, 2010)

Siena said:


> I actually just saw a Animal Cops episode where a lady fed her cats a vegetarian diet. This led to blindness, mental disorders, and eventually end stage organ failure. Cats simply cannot live on a vegetarian diet. Out of all of her cats (I think around 15), every single one of them had eye degeneration. I hope that lady feeding her cat a vegetarian diet opens her eyes soon.


I saw that as well. :frown:


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## xxshaelxx (Mar 8, 2010)

A healthy dog is not necessarily a thriving dog.


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## 3Musketeers (Nov 4, 2010)

Vegan fed dogs sicken me, the owners sicken me. That's like feeding a cow nothing but meat products. What's worse is vegan cats, because cats cannot even produce their own taurine, so a vegan diet is basically a death-sentence.

Some people refuse to believe that their pet is a carnivore and see supposedly "healthy" vegan dogs/cats and then try to force their pet to do the same.

I am totally 100% fine with people being vegans, less animals have to be tortured in slaughter houses, etc. etc., but when they try to convert their carnivourous animals that's cruel. 

Seriously, they should just get a hamster if they want to feed it vegan.


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## bumblegoat (May 12, 2010)

3Musketeers said:


> Seriously, they should just get a hamster if they want to feed it vegan.


No, not a hamster! Hamsters need animal protein too. A guinea pig or rabbit would be a better choice.


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## Cliffdog (Dec 30, 2010)

bumblegoat said:


> No, not a hamster! Hamsters need animal protein too. A guinea pig or rabbit would be a better choice.


Many pet rats get veggie diets too, which is not proper. But that's just due to a misunderstanding of ratty nutrition.


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## 3Musketeers (Nov 4, 2010)

Errrrm,well guinea pig then, lol. I knew rats needed some animal protein, didn't know hamsters did as well.


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## Cliffdog (Dec 30, 2010)

Oh yeah, they do. No joke, my sister's bear hamster Po eats steak. When she makes it, he always gets some. He's an awesome little guy.


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## cast71 (Sep 16, 2010)

3Musketeers said:


> Vegan fed dogs sicken me, the owners sicken me. That's like feeding a cow nothing but meat products. What's worse is vegan cats, because cats cannot even produce their own taurine, so a vegan diet is basically a death-sentence.
> 
> Some people refuse to believe that their pet is a carnivore and see supposedly "healthy" vegan dogs/cats and then try to force their pet to do the same.
> 
> ...


I can always count on you, for an excellent rant. Thanks:smile:


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## bully4life (Aug 9, 2010)

Terrible........


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## Little Brown Jug (Dec 7, 2010)

I know a couple who feeds their two goldens a veg diet because they are veg. I'm perfectly fine with people choosing to be vegan/veggie. I've never eaten meat in my 22 years alive but doing it to an animal that needs meat is cruel and even go as far as calling it abuse. The couple I know while they're dogs appear happy I seriously doubt they are at the peak of health. Both of them have a horrible smell and horrible coats. I have to wash my hands several times after touching them for less then a minute to get the smell/grimey feeling off.


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## cast71 (Sep 16, 2010)

Little Brown Jug said:


> I know a couple who feeds their two goldens a veg diet because they are veg. I'm perfectly fine with people choosing to be vegan/veggie. I've never eaten meat in my 22 years alive but doing it to an animal that needs meat is cruel and even go as far as calling it abuse. The couple I know while they're dogs appear happy I seriously doubt they are at the peak of health. Both of them have a horrible smell and horrible coats. I have to wash my hands several times after touching them for less then a minute to get the smell/grimey feeling off.


Maybe you can educate them that the vegan diet is wrong for carnivores. It most likely will cause alot of health issues and may even shorten there life span. It would be much easier coming from another vegetarian:smile:


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## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

My neighbours 7yo schnauzer gets a vegetarian diet because the vet said she is allergic to all animal protein. Even, EVEN after I bought her big bag of Orijen 6 Fish which the little dog absolutely hoovered up, and had no ill affects whatsover, the neighbour still went back to the vegetarian food. This dog is absolutely riddled with ear infections, constantly itching itself and licking its feet, constant hotspots, lack of energy, lumps, smells gross, body feels hot. I feel so sorry for her as a lot of those symptoms cleared up nicely after such a short time on the fish, but, even with all that evidence, she still went back - what else can you do? I can't keep buying food for the pup for the rest of its life.


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## cast71 (Sep 16, 2010)

MollyWoppy said:


> My neighbours 7yo schnauzer gets a vegetarian diet because the vet said she is allergic to all animal protein. Even, EVEN after I bought her big bag of Orijen 6 Fish which the little dog absolutely hoovered up, and had no ill affects whatsover, the neighbour still went back to the vegetarian food. This dog is absolutely riddled with ear infections, constantly itching itself and licking its feet, constant hotspots, lack of energy, lumps, smells gross, body feels hot. I feel so sorry for her as a lot of those symptoms cleared up nicely after such a short time on the fish, but, even with all that evidence, she still went back - what else can you do? I can't keep buying food for the pup for the rest of its life.


I really don't understand some people. I guess visual success is not enough. They need to wake up from the matrix:wink:


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## Cliffdog (Dec 30, 2010)

cast71 said:


> I really don't understand some people. I guess visual success is not enough. They need to wake up from the matrix:wink:


They're probably cheap folks who care less for their pets than their pocketbooks.


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## SamWu1 (Oct 15, 2010)

Cliffdog said:


> They're probably cheap folks who care less for their pets than their pocketbooks.


Sh1t, most vegan foods are pretty darn pricey!


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## RachelsaurusRexU (Sep 4, 2010)

So upsetting, horrible, disgusting, cruel...shall I continue?  

I know a few vegans who feed their carnivores a vegan diet and are not only convinced that it's totally appropriate, but that it's THE morally right thing to do. One of them even started a "vegan pit bull rescue", though, he hasn't actually started rescuing pit bulls yet, he's just been selling his merch for six or seven years and taking donations 

UGH.


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## xxshaelxx (Mar 8, 2010)

If I ever meet a person who feeds their dog vegan, I'm gonna ask them, seriously, "So, how much do you spend on vet bills?"


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## 3Musketeers (Nov 4, 2010)

cast71 said:


> I can always count on you, for an excellent rant. Thanks:smile:


LOL, sometimes I just lose it, you know? Then the ranting starts...


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## cast71 (Sep 16, 2010)

3Musketeers said:


> LOL, sometimes I just lose it, you know? Then the ranting starts...


That's kool. Don't change:biggrin:


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## ziggy29 (Feb 1, 2010)

RachelsaurusRexU said:


> I know a few vegans who feed their carnivores a vegan diet and are not only convinced that it's totally appropriate, but that it's THE morally right thing to do.


Let's see them go up to a lioness in Africa and suggest that.


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## RachelsaurusRexU (Sep 4, 2010)

ziggy29 said:


> Let's see them go up to a lioness in Africa and suggest that.


LOL, that's exactly what I said! "Vegan pit bull rescue" boy suggested that all wild carnivores would be much healthier if forced to consume a 100% vegan diet. Apparently, on vegan diets they wouldn't suffer from heart, liver and kidney disease or various cancers as a direct result of eating meat. 

Yes, you heard me right! Somebody *actually* believes this crap.


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## Cliffdog (Dec 30, 2010)

RachelsaurusRexU said:


> LOL, that's exactly what I said! "Vegan pit bull rescue" boy suggested that all wild carnivores would be much healthier if forced to consume a 100% vegan diet. Apparently, on vegan diets they wouldn't suffer from heart, liver and kidney disease or various cancers as a direct result of eating meat.
> 
> Yes, you heard me right! Somebody *actually* believes this crap.


Wow. :frown: I am losing faith in humanity.


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## xxshaelxx (Mar 8, 2010)

Cliffdog said:


> Wow. :frown: I am losing faith in humanity.


I lost mine a looooooooong time ago.


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## 3Musketeers (Nov 4, 2010)

Every day I lose a little more :frown: but you guys here give me hope


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## cast71 (Sep 16, 2010)

me too but you guys seem pretty kool:wink: I do have a few human friends, but mostly dog friends ahahahahahaaha


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## Little Brown Jug (Dec 7, 2010)

"My *VET* said it was fine." Most vets don't know a thing about diets. I don't understand why people trust their vet so much. 

I hear that excuse at least once a day at work, oh and this one "But I can't afford to switch that food is so expensive", OK so spending $100 on meds, over $100 on vet visits and over $70 on food every month isn't?


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## schtuffy (May 17, 2010)

Ugh...I googled 'vegan dog' and everything I read made me mad. 

_"From talking with other folks, I realize this is still a controversial issue. I find assurance in the idea that if dogs can be just as healthy (or even healthier in many cases) not consuming animals then there really is no reason to not at least give it a try."_

Are you serious? Just get a bunny :frown:


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## RachelsaurusRexU (Sep 4, 2010)

Exactly. If you can't handle feeding a carnivore or feel that it's "wrong" for them to eat what nature intended, DON'T HAVE ONE! 

I wouldn't get a snake with the mind-frame that "He's soOo cute but I don't wanna feed him mice, so he'll just have to get use to broccoli! Broccoli is healthy so he'll be fine!"

NO! That would be effed up! I just wouldn't get a snake because I couldn't handle possibly having to feed live rodents/killing rodents to feed it!


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## 3Musketeers (Nov 4, 2010)

*facepalm*

This site should not exist:
VeganCats.com - Frequently Asked Questions - Vegan Cat Food - Vegan Dog Food

It's hard not to get upset reading it.


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## Cliffdog (Dec 30, 2010)

Cruelty free... yeah, right!


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## RachelsaurusRexU (Sep 4, 2010)

I had to stop googling that stuff because it makes me too angry. And most of those people are IMPOSSIBLE to reason with.


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## mischiefgrrl (Oct 28, 2010)

There are a lot of people that say those things about the PMR diet we give our dogs. I feel confident that I am making the right choice - as they feel confident they are making the right choice. 

I think it's counter-productive on this website to focus on what other people are doing wrong. I feel comfortable here because it is a place where a community is there to help one another with their questions and concerns about PMR. As I said earlier in this thread, I saw a lot of vegan dogs at a potluck that seemed to be happy and healthy. My dog played with them and had a blast. I told them what I feed my dog, they told me what they feed their dogs and there was no arguing. To each their own.


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## RachelsaurusRexU (Sep 4, 2010)

Being that this is a canine nutrition forum, I think it's only natural that members are going to discuss diets that they feel are improper. 

At least PMR feeders have a logical basis for their choice in dog/cat/ferret diets with said animal's best interest in mind, and are not just basing dietary choices upon personal morals.


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## schtuffy (May 17, 2010)

3Musketeers said:


> *facepalm*
> 
> This site should not exist:
> VeganCats.com - Frequently Asked Questions - Vegan Cat Food - Vegan Dog Food
> ...


I think I got upset just seeing the name of the link!


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## richie (Jan 30, 2011)

*carnivores need meat, humans not so much*

I haven't eaten meat in 36 years, but would never think of depriving my dog of her natural sustenance. Ethics should be based on logic, not on stupidity! As much as I have no interest in eating meat, I still enjoy my dog crunching up her raw meat and bones! If someone doesn't like that, I agree, they should keep rabbits, or cows, or sheep... ..... not a carnivore.


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## bernadettelevis (Feb 2, 2011)

_"Because of anatomical differences, the risk of urinary tract problems is much less in females than in males. Although both can develop crystals in their bladders that can cause discomfort, females cannot become completely blocked by an aggregation of these crystals; therefore, urinary tract problems in females are easier and less expensive to fix and are not as painful and potentially dangerous as they are in males."​_
I mean, why would you do that to your cat????


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