# 1 Month on Raw and bad coats, itchy dogs, HELP!



## pinktoes1218 (Jan 5, 2014)

Help. I have been feeding my two pitties a raw diet for 4 weeks now. They are pooping good now but both of them are itchy, their coats have lost their shine, they feel coarse, and they just generally do not look as good as they did on the high priced kibble I was feeding them prior. They even have been developing hot spots and scratching their armpits alot. 

Is this normal? I have read over and over that the body goes through a detox, and they sure did have bouts of bad gas and loose poops, but their skin and coat condition is bad!

They have been eating chicken quarters including backs and organs. I started squirting some salmon oil on there about 3 days ago. I know I need to add some other proteins in there now. 

Does anybody have any advice or have had similar coat/skin issues when just starting out? Is this a hump I need to overcome? Also, what protein do you suggest I add and how often? 

Thank you everybody in advance!


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## Herzo (Feb 5, 2011)

I never did have this problem but I have heard of others having it. You can do a search on here for that. But it does sound like you need to read http:/. How to get started.

The next protein should be turkey. Also is your chicken enhanced. It will be some but some of it has more than others. It should give how much sodium %. I think it shouldn't be more than 85% or 90%. Less if you can get it.

I never fed organs that soon but if they are getting along fine with them then I guess it's ok. Read the link I gave you, it will give you a step by step how to get started.

Keep use posted.

So I don't know how to put up the link so you can just click on it sorry. Maybe someone else can, if not you will be able to get it anyway.


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## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

Are you taking the skin or fat off the chicken? It sounds a bit like there isn't enough fat in their diet. Also, you don't want too much fish oil, go easy on the amount you give them. Try adding virgin organic coconut oil each alternate day, that supplies Omega 6. Fish oil Omega 3.
And like Herz said, watch that the chicken isn't enhanced. 
I'd got for turkey as the next protein. 
But first off, make sure they are getting enough fat.


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## Shamrockmommy (Sep 10, 2009)

I am not a raw diet expert. I don't feed a 100% raw diet, for that matter. These are my own experiences with my dogs on raw (prey model).

When I first heard about prey model, it made a LOT of sense to me. If a wolf catches a goose, for instance, he gets meat, bone, a little bit of veggie matter in the guts (but PMR you leave that out) and some organs and some fiber in the feathers (again, left out for PMR). I started my dogs on it and they did ok for about a week, HOWEVER, they were accustomed to eating bits of raw and cooked along with dry. 

I had fed for years the Volhard raw diet, which doesn't include whole prey. I was familiar with raw diets in that sense.

It didn't take long for coats to go downhill. I have different coat types, from a long coat chihuahua, an "improper coat" PWD (grows and looks like a golden retriever coat), and two bichons at the time (Now also have a poodle). 
The PWDs normally super silky coat went to dry, wiry and brittle in a matter of a couple weeks. I was feeding chicken parts (recommended upon starting) and fish oil with some organs. 
Then itching and scratching started. Poops were awesome, although the bichons showed me it was too much bone because of their constipation- adjusted bone content. 
Itching continued as I introduced turkey, pork, beef (which they had been getting previously in my varied diet).
Stool issues came and went, from diarrhea, to soft, to rock hard constipation. 

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Listen to your dog! I wanted SO much to believe that PMR was the right diet, the diet that made all the sense in the world, the diet that would keep the dogs healthy and happy. Then one day on chicken thighs, BOTH bichons broke carnassials (their big upper molars) with slab fractures. That cost me $500 each to fix. <sigh> 

That was the last straw for me. Some dogs will do awesome on PMR. NONE of my 4 did. in my case (and maybe yours, too), they NEEDED the ground, cooked veggies for the fiber content, so they can go to the bathroom comfortably. They also benefit from the phytonutrients, vitamins and minerals included in these things. Sure, I suppose they technically don't "Need" them, but they DO benefit from them. 

I went back to my tried and true crock pot/kibble/raw meaty bones varied diet that has worked well for them for years! Beautiful coats, nice teeth, they are happy to eat and going to the bathroom is a regular event vs. bouts of dire-rear or painful rock hard poop. 

Is there anything wrong with feeding raw? No, unless your dog(s) is telling you outwardly that something is missing and needs adjusting. 
I also do not believe in "detox" per se, unless the dog has been eating an absolutely bottom of the barrel food and has underlying health issues. 
I also believe that dogs have allergies and sensitivities/intolerances. We need to respect that.

Currently I'm feeding a highly rated food that most people rave about (a dehydrated diet). And I'm having issues with that. Since I paid a boat load for the food, I'm going to finish feeding it (one more week's worth left) but I'll respect what the dogs are telling me and I'll make adjustments from there.

I know this is the raw board, and I think it's fantastic that people want to feed the best they can to their dogs, I commend that, but I also commend those who, even though they believe in one thing, respect what the dog is telling them.

Hope this helps, and this is from an honest perspective after 17 years and 10 months of living with dogs. <3

I am editing to add: I'm not advocating you feed the way I feed, I'm advocating making adjustments in accordance with what your dogs tell you. My humble opinion


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## pinktoes1218 (Jan 5, 2014)

Thank you all for your wonderful advice. Before I decided to make the switch, I did read over and over the information at preymodelraw.com (super helpful)! I read over it again today and that is quite a wonderful resource. Thanks! 

I honestly have been wondering if this is best for my dogs. Their skin is just awful. Hot spots on both, scratching, itchy welts, bumbs all over their shoulders/neck/head. It is breaking my heart to watch them both appear to go downhill. Previously I was feeding Wellness Core Ocean formula with some fish oil and they looked amazing on it. I wanted to step it up a notch so I researched raw for a month or so before I switched them. 

I have not been removing the skin off the chicken and I noticed they still had loose stools, so I started removing about 1/2 of the skin for the past week and their poops firmed up, but now today my younger dog seems constipated! 

This is alot of work between the monitoring of the poop and purchasing the food and portioning it, freezing it, thawing it, ect... and I do not mind doing any of that IF it benefits my fur babies, but I can tell they are not doing well :-(


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## Shamrockmommy (Sep 10, 2009)

The only way you know if your dog will do well on a food/feeding style is to try it. So sorry to hear the misery with their skin, I've been down that road a time or two (and currently with My pwd and The Honest Kitchen  )

Wish I were more helpful!


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## leaveittoweaver (Nov 15, 2013)

I know this may seem far fetched, but I wonder if your dogs just do poorly with chicken? 

The Wellness Core Oceanfish, has absolutely no chicken in it. So maybe that's why they did better with that? I would try switching the protein to turkey.


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## Ivy (Mar 16, 2011)

It could be so many things that could cause the skin and coat issues. It could be that they have an intolerance to chicken, my one dog did awful with chicken and had to cut it out of his rotation and was fine. Maybe if you were to introduce turkey and cut out the chicken and see if their skin issues go away. It could also be that the diet isn't enough and once you introduce pork, beef, fish and whatever other proteins you could get your hands on like lamb, rabbit, venison, goat, etc, they will look and feel better.

When I switched my boys over, they also looked horrible; muscle mass was gone, coat lost its shine. I stuck to it and eventually they came back around and look much better than on kibble and the beginning of raw. 

You know your dogs best and while I believe raw is the best food for dogs, I also believe that not all dogs do well on it. Finding the best diet for our dogs never black and white. Follow your gut is the best advice I could give.

Hope it all works out.


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## pinktoes1218 (Jan 5, 2014)

I wanted to give you all an update and thank you again for your advice and reassurance. I got the dogs off chicken and moved on through turkey, pork, and beef. I am alternating fish oil and coconut oil and their skin and coats have bounced back. I was having some constipation issues and started adding a little pumpkin here and there. I think I was just feeling too much bone though and am really getting it figured out. 

My confidence has been renewed and the dogs are looking much better. I looked at my 3 year old guy's teeth the other day and was amazed by the transformation. Not a lick of tarter left! 

Thank you all that took the time to share their thoughts.


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## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

Oh, thats great news. I was wondering how you were getting on. Instead of pumpkin, just cut back on the bone. Add in more boneless, a little bit at the time and that should fix the constipation. Also, start alternating coconut oil, fish oil and eggs. The eggs are a great source of Vit E. You are almost at the stage of adding a tiny, tiny, piece of liver to their meals too. Thanks for the update, appreciate it. 
Oh, with the eggs, let them eat the shell if they want. Also I give my dogs their eggs whole so they have to figure out how to eat it (well, in the beginning), just gives their brains a tiny bit more of a workout. You might have to crack them to give them the idea.


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## Shamrockmommy (Sep 10, 2009)

So glad it's working better for you!


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## Herzo (Feb 5, 2011)

Yes thanks for the update. So happy to hear your dogs are doing better.


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