# So i was thinking ??



## bully4life (Aug 9, 2010)

Where do most people buy their chicken from ? I've been doing this for almost 10 years now, (PMR)and 90% of my chicken has come from walm*rt. Lately i've been reading about the LOW QUALITY of their product. So what are the prices you're getting for leg quarters, and what, if any comments do you have about walm*rt chicken. Thanks !


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## SpooOwner (Oct 1, 2010)

I was surprised to learn from my Vet that (1) the USDA enlists local Vets to test meat quality at grocery stores, and (2) Costco has the highest quality meats in my area (higher than Whole Foods, Trader Joes, and a number of boutique speciality shops and butchers).


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## bully4life (Aug 9, 2010)

SpooOwner said:


> I was surprised to learn from my Vet that (1) the USDA enlists local Vets to test meat quality at grocery stores, and (2) Costco has the highest quality meats in my area (higher than Whole Foods, Trader Joes, and a number of boutique speciality shops and butchers).


good to know .... i have a Costco about 20 miles from me.


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

bully4life said:


> Where do most people buy their chicken from ?


I buy my chicken from a small independent grocer (not a chain). He adds my order to his regular order. I buy at least a case at a time and spend somewhere around $.50/lb for a 40# case.



> So what are the prices you're getting for leg quarters, and what, if any comments do you have about walm*rt chicken. Thanks !


I have used walmart chicken before and don't have a real big problem with it. I know it's enhanced and some think that is bad. I'm not so sure about how bad it actually is.


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## sassymaxmom (Dec 7, 2008)

Currently I have a lot of chicken in the freezer. 

Some is Foster Farm chicken from Walmart that came from Sustainable Selections for $.30 a pound. There is unsalted seasoning that is easily washed off on this stuff.

Most is a couldn't pass it by deal from Creston Valley Meats, chicken necks/heads, gizzards, livers and chicken feet. He processes some pastured chickens and I think at least some of this is from those birds as the whole gizzards often have grass in them. I don't remember what I paid per pound for the stuff [?$.50, $.75] but couldn't pass all those chicken feet and gizzards by. 

Occasionally Max gets the backs and giblets from unenhanced $.80 a pound Albertson's chickens that we humans buy for ourselves.

A whole quarter is too much food for Max, he only gets 10 ounces on average per day.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

we buy our chickens on sale, but only if they are a certain brand....usually draper valley or foster farm....and the sodium has to be under a 100 mg.

we won't eat or feed enhanced chicken because if the long term effects of sodium are not beneficial to humans, i don't see how it can be beneficial to dogs' kidneys....long term.

chicken can be expensive....so we chase sales...and stock up when we find a good one.


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

Lets just say that I and I will again say I because I know someone will lambaste me for this: There are way better places to buy chicken from. 

I have the philosphy that if I won't eat it then my dogs don't get to eat it. I really encourage you to find a co-op or like in your area as I'm thankful that my raw dogfood co-op is very forward thinking and 95% of the time only has grass fed meat available.


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## Northwoods10 (Nov 22, 2010)

We get our chicken from a supplier and I pay about .58/lb for leg quarters, backs are cheaper yet. 

I personally dont buy any meat from Wal*Mart for the humans or the dogs. Most of the stuff they have is enhanced with broth/sodium and if I'm not going to eat it for that reason, neither are my dogs.


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## eternalstudent (Jul 22, 2010)

whiteleo said:


> I have the philosphy that if I won't eat it then my dogs don't get to eat it.



Could not agree more. All my pups food is food that I would (and have) be happy to serve up as dinner for guests ;-)


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

Of course except the organ parts. LOL


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## RachelsaurusRexU (Sep 4, 2010)

What do people do with backs/necks/frames? Soup, I'm guessing?


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## bumblegoat (May 12, 2010)

whiteleo said:


> I have the philosphy that if I won't eat it then my dogs don't get to eat it.


My philosophy is more like "If I don't want to touch it, it's better off as dog food". :biggrin: My dog eats whatever meat we forget in the fridge or freezer for too long, and he gets disgusting stuff like green tripe (which I know you feed too, and I doubt you would want to eat that! :wink

The organs (liver, kidney) I wouldn't mind eating, if properly cooked.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

RachelsaurusRexU said:


> What do people do with backs/necks/frames? Soup, I'm guessing?


backs are great fried...so are necks and frames...and soup, of course....


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## RachelsaurusRexU (Sep 4, 2010)

Huh...interesting! I've never heard of that!


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## werecatrising (Oct 15, 2010)

I can't comment on the wal mart chicken since mine doesn't carry it. I get most of my meat at a local discount grocery store. They carry 10 pound bags of un enhanced chicken quarters. The normal price is $6.80 a bag. The past 2 weeks they have been on sale for $3.80 a bag. I also check save mart for marked down meats a couple of times a week.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

RachelsaurusRexU said:


> Huh...interesting! I've never heard of that!


not that i eat anything fried anymore.......LOL

but anything with a high bone content is great for making stock or broth or soup....


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## JayJayisme (Aug 2, 2009)

I generally buy chicken quarters (leg/thigh/split back) at one of the local ethnic markets. As described by werecatrising above, they come in 10 lb bags and sell anywhere from .39 to .88/lb. I usually wait until they are .59/lb or less then I stock up.

This chicken does contain up to 6% retained water, but no added sodium or "flavor enhancers". There is a difference between "enhanced" poultry and poultry that retains water from the post-slaughter cooling process that is done in a "chill tank". Just because chicken contains "added" water doesn't necessarily mean it has been "enhanced". 

But like RFD said, I'm not sure that occasional enhanced chicken is necessarily a bad thing so I don't worry about it too much and focus mostly on price. I figure that ANY raw chicken is a hundred time better for my dogs than ANY commercial dog food so I don't sweat the small stuff. :biggrin:


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

all due respect...i don't think it's small stuff especially over a long period of time...let's say, the life of a dog....

and if said dog is being fed chicken with too much salt over several years, the kidneys are being taxed....the same thing applies to humans....

we also watch prices....food is expensive for humans, too....my dogs eat the same chicken that i eat....and all i do is check the nutrition label...if it's more than 85-100 mg of sodium, then it's too much....long term.


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## JayJayisme (Aug 2, 2009)

Over a "long period of time" chicken represents only a portion of my dog's diet. If I happen to buy some enhanced chicken now and then because it's priced right, the total percentage of enhanced chicken in their diet over time is very small. In the grand scheme of things it's not worth worrying about. As far as I'm concerned, there are FAR worse things in both human and canine everyday diets than enhanced chicken. Buy hey, that's just my personal opinion. :wink:


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

JayJayisme said:


> Over a "long period of time" chicken represents only a portion of my dog's diet. If I happen to buy some enhanced chicken now and then because it's priced right, the total percentage of enhanced chicken in their diet over time is very small. In the grand scheme of things it's not worth worrying about. As far as I'm concerned, there are FAR worse things in both human and canine everyday diets than enhanced chicken. Buy hey, that's just my personal opinion. :wink:


everything we eat and everything our dogs eat has sodium in it....keeping in mind this is a friendly debate......

here's how i think about it....and i most definitely agree there are worse things than a little extra salt....

thing is...i don't know my dogs' genetics....and whether he and she are prone to kidney disorders....some dogs have a predisposition for kidney problems the same way humans do....

so, just sayin', an ounce of prevention is worth that extra lifetime pound of salt


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

You better start watching the pork ribs and pork in general because I'm finding ALOT of it is also enhanced, you put that together with chicken and there you have an overtaxed kidney problem. 

Dogs can't tell us if something is wrong, it is up to US to do the right thing ALL the time for them!


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## SamWu1 (Oct 15, 2010)

magicre said:


> everything we eat and everything our dogs eat has sodium in it....keeping in mind this is a friendly debate......
> 
> here's how i think about it....and i most definitely agree there are worse things than a little extra salt....
> 
> ...


I agree with Magicre that I don't touch the enhanced meats because the un-enhanced is not that much more expensive and I only have 2 dogs, both under 40lbs. to feed.

The way I see it, I'm feeding PMR to be as consistent with nature as possible so why feed meat that's soaking in something that smells almost like sweet teriyaki sauce?

Budget is obviously of concern or else I would be feeding nothing but organic, grassfed/pasture animals of the highest quality. Since I can't afford the absolute best, I buy the best that I can afford and that's the stuff my butcher provides.


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

Thinking can get you in trouble and while drinking 2 glasses of red wine I got to thinking. All the enhanced chicken I have bought has been in plastic bags. ALL the meat I buy that I know is not enhanced is in styrofoam trays. Can I logically draw a conclusion that enhanced meats are sealed in a plastic bag cause there is a lot of added liquid and non-enhanced meats are in styrophoam trays because of no added liquid?

In the morning I will probably wish I hadn't made this post but right now I look like a genius to myself. :biggrin:


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## RachelsaurusRexU (Sep 4, 2010)

LOL uhhh....


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## cprcheetah (Jul 14, 2010)

Depends, we have a wholesaler we get it from for .45-.55 depending on the time, but today I'm going to pick up some quarters for .39/# at a local grocery store can't pass up on that deal


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

RawFedDogs said:


> Thinking can get you in trouble and while drinking 2 glasses of red wine I got to thinking. All the enhanced chicken I have bought has been in plastic bags. ALL the meat I buy that I know is not enhanced is in styrofoam trays. Can I logically draw a conclusion that enhanced meats are sealed in a plastic bag cause there is a lot of added liquid and non-enhanced meats are in styrophoam trays because of no added liquid?
> 
> In the morning I will probably wish I hadn't made this post but right now I look like a genius to myself. :biggrin:


that's all it takes? two glasses of red wine? :biggrin:

you're not wrong..and that's a whole other issue...

the styrofoam and plastic leech into the contents and there is a relationship between plastic and certain diseases, although they are still arguing, thirty years and counting...or more...

but..having said that, tonight i'll drink two glasses of red wine and tomorrow, i'll still not buy enhanced chicken...

come to think of it, why for do the organic farms package their oh so pure product in plastic? (rhetorical)


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

whiteleo said:


> You better start watching the pork ribs and pork in general because I'm finding ALOT of it is also enhanced, you put that together with chicken and there you have an overtaxed kidney problem.
> 
> Dogs can't tell us if something is wrong, it is up to US to do the right thing ALL the time for them!


i think it's sad that it has become a not so joyous occasion, food shopping....it's like wading through a mine field...and by the time i'm done, i'm ready for bill's two glasses of wine from all the reading we do.

ya know those cute little sirloin roasts at costco? we bought them and then i read it's enhanced...man, i was pissed off.

their ribs aren't, though.....nor is their pork loin....

and top foods has both, enhanced and non enhanced....ribs and roasts and such...they don't get pork loin...it's not fatty enough....lucky dogs get to eat more fat than i do LOL

i think it's the five star brand that isn't...but i'll check today when we go shopping...


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

What about Honey Baked Ham? I know they add a bunch of flavorings in it ... does that make it enhanced? I really don't care cause I'm eating it anyway. :biggrin:


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

You can eat it Bill and I probably eat it once a year at Easter or some other holiday! No red wine or any wine for me though, god I wish I could still drink! LOL


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## BrownieM (Aug 30, 2010)

I have been getting my meat from Whole Foods, and I still do prefer their meat, but it IS expensive, so I have been looking for other sources. Today I went to an ethnic market and the chicken was .83 a pound - higher than many people on this forum pay but MUCH less than Whole Foods! The quarters were much larger and seem like they are good quality. 

I was tempted to get some chicken from Walmart the other day, but I couldn't tell if it was enhanced. It was in a big bag, sodium was only about 85%, didn't say it was enhanced, so maybe I should go back and buy some!!! :biggrin: I _can_ understand the argument that over a long period of time enhanced meat might not be a big deal. BUT as a newbie, I would like to keep things as natural as possible to eliminate the possible factors that could cause issues. Also, kidney problems definitely occur in standard poodles and I would like to keep the salt levels to a minimum. 

And don't get me started on plastic! LOL! I guess there is only so much I can worry about though..


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

RawFedDogs said:


> What about Honey Baked Ham? I know they add a bunch of flavorings in it ... does that make it enhanced? I really don't care cause I'm eating it anyway. :biggrin:


yummy ham...we used to eat it once a year or so....

enjoy!!!


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## JayJayisme (Aug 2, 2009)

I'm beginning to think that maybe the proliferation of enhanced meat at the supermarket is a regional thing. I'm a "label reader" but where I am (So Cal), very little of the fresh meat sold in the supermarkets around me is enhanced. It's actually rare to encounter enhanced meat around here. Maybe that isn't the case in a lot of other parts of the country and maybe that is why I just don't worry about it as much as some other people do. 

None of the pork I buy is enhanced or has added water. Most of the poultry I buy has added water but it is not enhanced. I don't shop at Costco or Walmart so maybe that has something to do with it. I don't know. Regardless, seems like it's probably a legitimate concern if enhanced meat in the markets is common where you are. It's just not much of an issue here for whatever reason.

I'm with Bill on the Honey Baked ham though. Yum, yum! :biggrin:


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## sassymaxmom (Dec 7, 2008)

Sorry, not so. Max gets a lot of super cheap meat through Sustainable Selections that came from Walmart. 

The winner in enhancing was the 480 mg sodium per serving beef meant for stir fry placed on a nice tray. All the pork chops on trays have been enhanced. All the chicken bits on trays are enhanced. Ground beef on trays not so far but it is nasty smelly stuff, oh well. Big pork bits in bags are enhanced. The strange one is the whole Foster Farm seasoned chicken is not high in sodium. Rumba brand meats aren't enhanced so far.

Yuck but it is cheap. I certainly wouldn't buy it retail!


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

Well, I think I just might take pork out of my dogs diet completely! I mean really how many pigs did wolves eat in the wild? 

And I just read and saw the story on Smithfield farms which is the biggest producer of pork in the U.S, its horrifying what they are doing to those poor animals. I 'm very computer illiterate but if someone can look up the story and post it it here it would be great!


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## Ania's Mommy (Feb 8, 2009)

Undercover investigation of Smithfield Foods reveals factory farm horrors - Yahoo! News


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## SpooOwner (Oct 1, 2010)

Disgusting. Mia never liked pork that much anyway.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

i wonder where costco gets their pork.....


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## werecatrising (Oct 15, 2010)

So, if a meat in enhanced, there has to be some info on the label, right? I mean- at least something listing sodium content.


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

Well I thought so but when I was in Winco the other day they had a great deal on pork ribs with nothing stating that they were enhanced so I thought I better ask the meat guy just to be safe and he said" all their pork is enhanced" they get a great deal from hormel. I asked why it didn't say so on the package and he said oh, I can put a label on it or not.


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## schtuffy (May 17, 2010)

whiteleo said:


> And I just read and saw the story on Smithfield farms which is the biggest producer of pork in the U.S, its horrifying what they are doing to those poor animals.


That reminded me of a movie I watched at work called Food Inc.. I think some of you guys might find it pretty interesting.


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## BrownieM (Aug 30, 2010)

schtuffy said:


> That reminded me of a movie I watched at work called Food Inc.. I think some of you guys might find it pretty interesting.


That movie caused me to be a vegetarian for a year!


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

so now, if i go to a grocery store...and buy meat from the butcher part of the store...it's not labelled, other than weight, price and it's packaged by the butcher who has taken a large piece of cow and made it into consumer pieces.....do i just assume that piece of roast or steak or whatever is enhanced or injected with something?


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

Good question. I don't know. Don't really worry about it. Guess you have to ask the butcher at each store.


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

Part of the deal for me is to ask now since some seem to label and some don't.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

well, i just defrosted some five star natural pork necks bought from top....when i looked up labeling on the fda and usda site....it says that 'natural' cannot be used in the label unless it meets a certain criteria...so, since the pork was labeled natural, i can presume, that it is minimally processed if at all....

otherwise, i guess i'm going to have to ask, too....and certainly not buy smithfield or hormel....i think costco pork ribs are hormel.....i'll see next time i go.


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

magicre said:


> it says that 'natural' cannot be used in the label unless it meets a certain criteria...so, since the pork was labeled natural, i can presume, that it is minimally processed if at all....


Thats true but I read somewhere how lax the "natural" definition is. You can add most anything that is natural to something and it use the word in the packaging. I think arsnic(sp) is natural. :smile:

But if you stop and think about it. If we buy meat for ourselves that isn't enhanced, we end up enhancing it ourselves by adding all kinds of flavoring such as salt, pepper, etc. So if it's not enhanced, we do it anyway. :smie:


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

What Does Natural on a Food Label Mean?

i think, at some point, we have to draw the line....because even 'organic' is suspect as is cage free...and all that means is the door to the cage is open....

what we do with our food is our choice....and i'm not sure that seasoning would be enhancing unless we brined in order to penetrate the skin into the flesh...or pickled...that would be enhancement...

enhancing flavour with seasonings...i'll leave that up to dog food companies...

for my dogs....i have to pick a line in the sand..otherwise, no one would eat..not them, not me...

..a little salt can't be helped...there is salt in most everything we eat....but there has to be a limit....even though the fda and usda are woeful with enforcement....

i'll go with the fact that if it says natural, then it's closer to what i want than, let's say 10% liquid...or 450 mg of sodium....per 4 oz.


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