# I killed my dogs with love and ignorance.



## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

today, nichi died.

she died because we were ignorant.

she was thirteen and a half years old...a shih tzu bundle of joy....whom we let live with honey's mom to keep her from being lonely....she is the fourth of four shih tzus who never lived to be older than 13 1/2

maybe other dogs of her breed live longer; and, actually many do....

leading up to this was nichi had stopped eating a few months ago. this was a poop eater with horrid teeth and we knew not enough about nutrition, never heard of tom lonsdale and thought we were doing the best we could do.

we extended her life because we put her on home cooking...but even that was wrong because it still had carbs and grains.

when we took malia and bubba to the vet on saturday, their teeth were pronounced magnificent..vet's words, not mine.....even though we were told last year that bubba would need to have a dental this year because he has those smushy faced teeth....and he was, in september, a kibble fed dog.

nichi was always a kibble dog....no matter how many dentals she got, her breath, her teeth were skanky.....when she stopped eating, i put her on home cooked, but even then i included 25% grain and veggies....she perked up for about six months until i got the call this morning.

she had not eaten in four days, no poop, no pee, lethargic...

i brought her here and took one look and knew.....

we took her to the vet today..and he looked at her teeth....they were horrid....

we asked if pulling all of them would save her, and the vet couldn't be sure she would make it through surgery...

we opted to let her join bandit, yoshi, and kimba...all of whom have died within the last two years....been a rough year for shih tzus...

i am now firmly convinced that raw is the only way to feed dogs and the proof is in the dentition of my pug and the proof is in the dentition of the beautiful little 8 lb girl we put to sleep today...

while his teeth got better and his overal health makes him magnificent....nichi, with all of my love, mom's care.....did not keep her alive.

so i say this now...

i will never go back to kibble. i will never feed home cooked again.

from now forward, my dogs will all be on raw and nichi, bandit and kimba, along with all those who came before you...i am so sorry....


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## BabyHusky (Jul 21, 2008)

i'm so sorry. losing a family member is the absolute worse. theres really nothing to say except that we're all here for you.


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## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

Oh, that just totally sucks to lose a pup, I'm so sorry. You did the best you could with the knowledge you had at the time. My heart goes out to you.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

MollyWoppy said:


> Oh, that just totally sucks to lose a pup, I'm so sorry. You did the best you could with the knowledge you had at the time. My heart goes out to you.


forgive me if i beat myself up a little here....i didn't even look...

i put more time in researching my cars and televisions than i did my dogs' nutrition.....

ya know that song...killing me softly...well, that's what i did with my four shih tzus who all died too soon.....in two years...maybe it's just too many dogs dying too soon, i don't know.....

but the what if is eating at me today....i'll get past it...for there's nothing to do about it now.....except learn from it..

still....


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## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

You just did what a lot of us are guilty of, even though we had the best intentions at the time. I was absolutely gutted when each of my old dogs died, but, looking back, the mistakes I made taught me valuable lessons on how to take better care of the next pup in my life. 
Losing one dog every 14 years was enough for me, I can't imagine how hard it must be to lose so many dogs in such a short time.


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## redspoo (Mar 19, 2010)

Magicre, there are no words that will bring you comfort. I can only say
that many of us share your pain. Time will help heal you. Grieve your
loss.


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## yuffie (Jun 22, 2010)

aw i'm so sorry for your loss, it's so hard to lose a beloved pet :frown: just from experience, don't dwell on the guilt you feel because i know you did what was best for your dogs with what you knew, and your dog was loved which is the most important thing, and is more than a lot of other unlucky dogs get in life. 

<3


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Every single one of your beloved pets was treasured and loved beyond their capacity to know. Despite the information you didn't know existed, the fact that rhey were cherished and loved doesn't change. And in the end that is what matters. The fact that you gave it the best you could with the knowledge you had. Instead of beating yourself up about it, take a step back and remember the good times and happy memories, and take the knowledge you have now through life always. Find peace as you remember all of them.


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## luvMyBRT (Mar 8, 2010)

I am so sorry to hear about this. :frown: Don't be too hard on yourself. Know that your not alone in how you are feeling. The loss of a beloved pet is the loss of a loved family member......:frown: ((hugs))


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## Guest (Aug 6, 2010)

Godspeed, Nichi. 

I'm very sorry for your loss, magicre.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

but i have to be hard on myself....why did so many people know about raw and i didn't.

i research everything; yet, i was one who just followed the crowd..i never followed the crowd....but this i did.

i am so thankful for all of you...i know that until that light switch goes on, we simply don't know what we don't know.....

i am confident that this shall pass.....and with all of your words and kind thoughts.....

just not today....i'm afraid....just not today.

today is for the sweet little girl whose teeth finally killed her and it could have been prevented.
one day for a pity party...then grieving...then smiling for that bubba and malia shiny white teeth and muscle bound bodies.


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## stajbs (Jun 5, 2010)

Magicre, my heart truly feels your pain. It is so very hard to lose a beloved member of the family but having it happen close together in time is doubly devestating. We rescued most of our siberians and payed no attention to the fact that many of them were of simlar age and we could lose them close together. In 2008-2009, in the space of 9 months we lost 4 of our babies. 

Our first loss was 4 years ago now, and Thorn was 12/13 years old. Then in July 2008 we lost Jewel to cancer at age 12, then the mindblower was our young boy Ice who died suddenly at age 6/7 from intusesseption(sp?)in Sept.2008. Then in January 2009 we lost Sandi at age 15 to cancer, and two weeks later Aurora(14) who had Cushings began seizuring along with other intensifying complictions. Needless to say we were a total mess. Healing has taken a long time for us. Now we face the future with Blaze being around age 12 and Silva being appproximately 11. 

We used to feed a kibble I would rather not mention, except to say it probably is ranked a 3 on dogfoodanalysis.com for example. Our dogs have always been truly loved and the center of our lives. About 4 years ago I started payig much closer attention to nutrition and drove my husband nuts making dietary changes. It was still kibble though, just much better quality. Then after all the losses we graduated to rotating 3 premium kibbles and cooking for the dogs. Blaze and Silva were almost as depressed as we were at the time and cooking for them really perked them up and helped all of us through a difficult time. We have now graduated to THK. We may one day get past our hang ups with raw. 

I firmly believe that you loved your furkids as we did and at the time you do what you feel is best. We did the same. Do not punish yourself for loving your dogs and doing your best based on your knowledge. Sharing our lives with dogs as an evolving process and we learn as we go. Again, so very sorry for your loss, but don't beat yourself up, your other dogs will pick up on it and in the long run it will not do any of you any good. Allow yourelf to grieve but do not complicate it with what if's.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

I will say, that it is a great thing that you realize that it was her teeth (most likely- based on my experience with smaller breed dogs and bad teeth). MOST people at my work just don't get it. I applaud you for putting two and two together and figuring it out. Most people don't. So consider yourself lucky to have learned from your mistake/lack of info (I don't personally think it was a "mistake" on your part because if you knew better at the time you would have done something about it...but you just didn't have that final "push" to get the thought outside the box, ultimately marketing got the best of you. If anything, be angry at mass marketing and not yourself). You are a wonderful person for all that you have done for your animals, and ALL the information, knowledge and experience that you have gained through all the recent changes in the past that you will apply later in life. 

Go have a nice glass of wine (or whatever will make you a bit more relaxed) and think of all the wonderful, beautiful memories you have <3


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

Re, I'm so sorry about Nichi, you have always done the absolute most as far as a dog owner goes. Things might have been different, but maybe they wouldn't have been, your nichi knew you loved her.


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## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

Yeah, go watch Animal Cops (insert city). That will put help put things in perspective when it comes to owners being ignorant. 
Your pup's were truly blessed to have spent their lives with you.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

stajbs said:


> Magicre, my heart truly feels your pain. It is so very hard to lose a beloved member of the family but having it happen close together in time is doubly devestating. We rescued most of our siberians and payed no attention to the fact that many of them were of simlar age and we could lose them close together. In 2008-2009, in the space of 9 months we lost 4 of our babies.
> 
> Our first loss was 4 years ago now, and Thorn was 12/13 years old. Then in July 2008 we lost Jewel to cancer at age 12, then the mindblower was our young boy Ice who died suddenly at age 6/7 from intusesseption(sp?)in Sept.2008. Then in January 2009 we lost Sandi at age 15 to cancer, and two weeks later Aurora(14) who had Cushings began seizuring along with other intensifying complictions. Needless to say we were a total mess. Healing has taken a long time for us. Now we face the future with Blaze being around age 12 and Silva being appproximately 11.
> 
> ...


and we wonder how we get through things....we don't have kids...these ARE our kids....i cannot even begin to think of what you guys went through...

but you made me laugh when you said you drove your husband nuts....to this day, i am driving mine nuts...he also has periodontal disease.....i am now researching that...and coming to the same conclusion...

it's grains for dogs and grains for us that contributes...we are not cows nor are we goats...we were not meant to eat this...nor are our dogs....

my oldest dog now is almost eleven....she lost a tooth a few years ago, because she had a cavity going up to her brain LOL....my vet is funny...

she is now on prey model raw as is the pug and after their exam on saturday, both dogs have 'magnificent' teeth....and do not need the dentals they were scheduled to have this summer....

i was just at the point where i was going to order placque off because i had read so many things about it....i guess i don't have to now.

i am sorry for all of your losses....it's hell for a while....


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

danemama08 said:


> I will say, that it is a great thing that you realize that it was her teeth (most likely- based on my experience with smaller breed dogs and bad teeth). MOST people at my work just don't get it. I applaud you for putting two and two together and figuring it out. Most people don't. So consider yourself lucky to have learned from your mistake/lack of info (I don't personally think it was a "mistake" on your part because if you knew better at the time you would have done something about it...but you just didn't have that final "push" to get the thought outside the box, ultimately marketing got the best of you. If anything, be angry at mass marketing and not yourself). You are a wonderful person for all that you have done for your animals, and ALL the information, knowledge and experience that you have gained through all the recent changes in the past that you will apply later in life.
> 
> Go have a nice glass of wine (or whatever will make you a bit more relaxed) and think of all the wonderful, beautiful memories you have <3


ya know..? it took me so long, though. it took me so long...to figure out that nutro products used menadione and THAT was why bandit's liver enzymes were through the roof...there was no other reason...same with yoshi....
kimba was like a wind up toy and one day, she just stopped.
nichi's teeth were so bad at the end....there was a time she would three to four dentals a year. we tried to brush her teeth...we took her off kibble but weren't going to make mom feed her raw...

here's a question, natalie..that i asked my wonderful vet yesterday as we were killing our dog....since genetics do play a role in everyone's teeth..and it was very well known by all of nichi's vets that she had horrid teeth..and no blame here.....honest....why was it never suggested that we pull them, like we do with humans who have severe out of control periodontal disease...

he was very honest in his answer and actually seemed a little surprised by the question because he said...ya know? i really don't know why we don't suggest that....because dogs don't chew and can eat wet food, pureed food, ground food...even kibble, since it flies down their throats....

certainly, he said, it would save the pet owners a boat load of money every year or six months and the dog would be out of pain....and quite possibly live longer and not have the associated cardiac, liver and pulmonary and kidney problems that go along with these teeth....

we almost put her into hospital to rehydrate and do just that...pull all of her teeth, in hopes that would save her for a few more years....

and then he looked at me and i looked at him..and he said he didn't know if she would survive the surgery and did we really want her to be alone, since whenever we brought dogs in, they always came in pairs because we never wanted them to be alone....even if nothing was going on.....if a dog had to stay overnight, another dog went along....our vets always indulged us that way....

i thank you...it was tequila last night and comfort mexican food


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

Re, good question about the teeth pulling, my vet pulled my cats teeth at age 7 because of red line disease, no ifs ands or buts about it. I think probably they look at teeth as the last resort to take out, but I was happy my vet suggested it and went through with it because my cat was much happier after.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Honestly I don't think a lot of owners would go for pulling all the teeth. They just can't see the bigger picture. I think that is the main reason why it's not suggested. I mean some of our clients have a fit if we just pull one tooth, I can't imagine if we pulled all of them or even suggested it. Even if we tell them it's for the best I don't think it really sinks in. I don't understand why it's so hard for people to see the bigger picture. 

Genetics definitely plays a role in dental hygiene. Some dogs just have worse teeth than others even on an appropriate diet. They are less likely to have severe dental disease on raw but remember that feeding raw is still very much the minority in ways to feed dogs. From my experience looking into disgusting plaque encrusted mouths that Italian greyhounds have the worst dental hygiene. Even worse than brachycephalic dogs.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

whiteleo said:


> Re, good question about the teeth pulling, my vet pulled my cats teeth at age 7 because of red line disease, no ifs ands or buts about it. I think probably they look at teeth as the last resort to take out, but I was happy my vet suggested it and went through with it because my cat was much happier after.


we talked about that, which is why we almost considered it....but what your cat had is fatal, i believe, right? and not one single piece of tooth or root can remain or the cat dies...if i remember what he was saying through my crying...

my vet thought it was a good question too.....but, now i know that it's a viable option for dogs, even raw dogs.....with crappy genetics....


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

danemama08 said:


> Honestly I don't think a lot of owners would go for pulling all the teeth. They just can't see the bigger picture. I think that is the main reason why it's not suggested. I mean some of our clients have a fit if we just pull one tooth, I can't imagine if we pulled all of them or even suggested it. Even if we tell them it's for the best I don't think it really sinks in. I don't understand why it's so hard for people to see the bigger picture.
> 
> Genetics definitely plays a role in dental hygiene. Some dogs just have worse teeth than others even on an appropriate diet. They are less likely to have severe dental disease on raw but remember that feeding raw is still very much the minority in ways to feed dogs. From my experience looking into disgusting plaque encrusted mouths that Italian greyhounds have the worst dental hygiene. Even worse than brachycephalic dogs.


you are absolutely right...and you see a lot of dogs come through, right? you work in a vet's office....

yoshi's teeth were pulled...because they were falling out...not all, mind you....but they should have been....same with kimba...and had it been suggested to me...even brought up as a wild thought.....i would have considered it....we do it with humans....

my vets know me....really know me. we don't switch vets...our files alone say something.

we spent two thousand dollars fixing bubba's eyes....he was in pain....i can't have my dogs be in pain...

if it were that bad, why didn't they tell me she was in pain? i would have happily given her darwin's pets or whomever had grinds....

she could have eaten raw or even cooked puree, which i was doing....with egg shells for calcium...and beef heart and liver and all kinds of good stuff...i would have happily made her a raw concoction....

my butcher would have ground chicken for me and rabbit and other boned meat....

i've always wanted choices...my vets knew this. i'm not rich; but, these are my kids.....

i just wanted choices....

i want to know why i didn't go down this road years ago....it never even occurred to me to feed raw.

my vet on saturday....saw malia and bubba and marvelled.....he called them wondrously healthy....he scoffed at doing blood work or fecals or dentals...he said malia looked five years younger....and she's almost eleven....

i will revel in that from now onward....and learn from this....but it's going to take a few more shots of tequila and maybe sake and some sushi.

and time.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Just let the healing begin! We are all here for you through all of this :biggrin:


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

magicre said:


> i will revel in that from now onward....and learn from this....but it's going to take a few more shots of tequila and maybe sake and some sushi.
> 
> and time.


I'll get a glass of wine and help you with the sushi. :smile:


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

RawFedDogs said:


> I'll get a glass of wine and help you with the sushi. :smile:


damned straight....i'll do the saki and you can have wine and we'll eat raw fish.

bill. if not for you....you know.


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## wags (Jan 31, 2009)

So sorry to hear of your dogs passing! Sad to read. The memories you have and the photos will help you get through the roughness of this sorrowful time. Prayers to you.


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## stajbs (Jun 5, 2010)

magicre,
After 25+ years of marriage my husband would likely say I was put on this earth to drive him nuts. I think it was you who said that your dogs are your kids. It is the same for me. I couldn't have kids, I am well past that issue now, but our dogs will always be my kids. 
I have struggled with dental issues as well, but oddly enough it has only been with our two red and white siberians. Our others never had problems. Tooth brushing, chew toys and and their teeth and breath are great. Vet was always pleased with their teeth and so were we. However, Blaze, the red and white in the pic here has some issues. It seems bizarre but I keep wondering if it's just me with the red/white sibe thing. lol I know genetics play a part and obviously diet and dental care, but honestly I am perplexed. 

He is scheduled for a cleaning and an extraction of two teeth if need be in a little over a week. Gums look good, but two funky teeth, he is not a hearty chewer either, although my other red and white was and she had this problem too. It is good to learn other people's feelings and experiences about this.

I hope you are feeling just a wee bit better today although I know it takes lots of time. Will keep you in my thoughts. If you are still contemplating some booze to help you deal with it, I will bring some tequila, although with the weather recently a nice frosty Lager or Guiness Stout might hit the spot here.

Take care of yourself!


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

stajbs said:


> magicre,
> After 25+ years of marriage my husband would likely say I was put on this earth to drive him nuts. I think it was you who said that your dogs are your kids. It is the same for me. I couldn't have kids, I am well past that issue now, but our dogs will always be my kids.
> I have struggled with dental issues as well, but oddly enough it has only been with our two red and white siberians. Our others never had problems. Tooth brushing, chew toys and and their teeth and breath are great. Vet was always pleased with their teeth and so were we. However, Blaze, the red and white in the pic here has some issues. It seems bizarre but I keep wondering if it's just me with the red/white sibe thing. lol I know genetics play a part and obviously diet and dental care, but honestly I am perplexed.
> 
> ...


you are so kind and yes, i'm feeling better.....sake and sushi...are a great combination....and i had some octopus to die for....and quail eggs on top of salmon roe....yummmmm..

i digress...i have given this much thought and i've been researching the relationship between starchy carbs with humans....because my honey has periodontal disease....it stands to reason that starchy carbs and dogs will most likely produce a similar reaction....sugar is the enemy for humans as well as dogs...

the vet said, when we almost scheduled all of her teeth to come out, that, she would do fine without them.......dogs don't chew anyway.....certainly kibble doesn't need to be broken down in the mouth...my vet said this; and, yet...has never ever suggested doing a full mouth extraction for any dog.
we slowed down my honey's progressive disease...and it is a disease by cutting out certain foods, like grains and potatoes....well, other than sushi night LOL....and our dogs get N O N E.

the four shih tzus....three out of four had crappy teeth..it's allegedly the nature of the breed....except for one thing...

i now have a pug..who is also a smushy faced dog.....when we first got him, he was going to need a dental this summer...we first had him on wellness super five barley/salmon/lamb or whatever and then he was on home cooked.
my corgi mix who always had decent teeth had to have a large tooth extraction three years ago and her teeth were showing signs of placque as of last september when we got bubba.

they have been on raw now since march-april....they were at the vet on saturday. they have not had one iota of starch or carb or anything but protein and fat for four months or so....

neither one needs a dental and their teeth are magnificent. his words, not mine.

so, at this point, i can come to only one conclusion...if stopping starchy starches and grains helps my husband, helps my two dogs....isn't that objective enough for the biggest skeptic? 

AND....yes, i know my dog was old...but three years ago, we asked for options because her teeth were so bad....now, we were still ignorant about raw, but had they pulled her teeth as they do with humans....certainly, we could have maybe might have will never know if we could have prevented the extreme severe periodontal disease and the accompanying heart/liver/kidney/etc involvement.

on the other hand....and i guess the bright side of this is....we learned. 

and got a little bit drunk.

and nichi now is in no pain....and i thank you. i know exactly what it means to not have children and to say my children have four legs....because they do...


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

Oh Re, much rather have flying fish eggs and quail eggs, salmon roe sucks! ICK Just had sushi with friends last week, and you'll never catch me eating uni, DOUBLE ICK.

Glad your feeling better, time will heal all.

Robin


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

whiteleo said:


> Oh Re, much rather have flying fish eggs and quail eggs, salmon roe sucks! ICK Just had sushi with friends last week, and you'll never catch me eating uni, DOUBLE ICK.
> 
> Glad your feeling better, time will heal all.
> 
> Robin


we also had flying fish eggs, robin, so no worries there....WHAT? you don't eat octopus? sigh sigh sigh....

i had nigiri......with eel and octopus and flying eggs and quail eggs and salmon roe and tuna and salmon and oh my....i don't even remember all that chris served us....yum. yum.

i do feel better...sake always helps....

when i was in medical school and one of my fellows or myself even....killed a patient..and it happens....we'd go to the morbidity and morbundity sessions and have our cases dissected...and we'd learn what not to ever do again....not that it happened a whole lot...certainly less than people think...and probably more than people know ..

i think this is along those lines....i learn. it sometimes takes something like this, but i learn.


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

Isn't uni sea urchin roe? asian delicacy that tastes like piss? Thats what I was referring to, no I eat everything else, aembi ebi is my favorite (sweet shrimp) with the heads.

Off to work I go.............


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

whiteleo said:


> Isn't uni sea urchin roe? asian delicacy that tastes like piss? Thats what I was referring to, no I eat everything else, aembi ebi is my favorite (sweet shrimp) with the heads.
> 
> Off to work I go.............


right you are.....unfortunately, they didn't have uni...my other restaurant has that one......or i would relish it....and i always get the names mixed up..

is sweet shrimp the same as crystal shrimp?


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## stajbs (Jun 5, 2010)

Octopus..flying fish...I am missing something. Time to climb out of my bubble!! lol Sushi, I can take it or leave it. I need to work on refining our old palates apparently. My hubby has periodontal disease too, but I never researched it as you have. When he wakes up from his siesta I will have to discuss this with him. Just one more thing to make him nuts. Geez, I will soon be in divorce court. Poor poor man......

Thanks for the info on periodontal disease too magicre!!


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

stajbs said:


> Octopus..flying fish...I am missing something. Time to climb out of my bubble!! lol Sushi, I can take it or leave it. I need to work on refining our old palates apparently. My hubby has periodontal disease too, but I never researched it as you have. When he wakes up from his siesta I will have to discuss this with him. Just one more thing to make him nuts. Geez, I will soon be in divorce court. Poor poor man......
> 
> Thanks for the info on periodontal disease too magicre!!


we're trying to save his teeth...without spending the requisite 20k....

i am a little OCD....so researching is something i do automatically. i am learning that i have to shoulder the responsibility of learning what is needed to be my own advocate, my dogs' advocate....

so learning about the relationship between food and health is, to me, as necessary, as breathing...

if i had known then what i know now....i might have, and i don't know for sure, because genetics do play a part...but i would not have contributed to the disease, thereby making it worse and eventually killing her....

for humans, there is a condition called SBE....it stands for sub acute bacterio endocarditis and it cripples those who survive it....it's not as uncommon as people think and it is one of the things that people get and dogs can get......as a complication of periodontal disease...

not to mention kidney, liver, and pancreatic involvement...

so, if my vet doesn't go there, someone has to....and i guess it's going to be me....and you and i can stand at divorce court together, because i like my guy and this is preventable if taken care of.


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## stajbs (Jun 5, 2010)

magicre,

I am far from OCD, which my husband is. I am however, an input junkie with a hang up. In the past 5 years I am off to research anything regarding dogs, but I have this hang-up about investigating human health issues. Bites me in the behind on occasion. I knew this could be a problem for humans, and a serious one at that, but in this case I have been letting him just deal with it, sad to say. His sitution is pretty much resolved now. 

I work as a medical social worker with a non-profit foster care agency and I am quick to research what is needed at work to help children, but I am shamelessly stupid about doing it for us. Probably paranoia, or maybe there is another diagnosis for my issue.


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## stajbs (Jun 5, 2010)

Whoops, I should say I like my guy and hope to keep him around for a while too. He has had most of the work completed and they have begun work on new choppers for him now. Hopefully with your info and some investigating I did today we can save his remaining teeth. 

With respect to the dogs I have noticed overall improvement in their teeth since switching to THK, even Blaze has improved it's just two of them at this point, but I will be discussing his dental issues more thoroughly with the vet now that I am better informed. For this reason I am grateful for this thread, but remain sad for the reasons you had to start it.

Take care!!


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## PAID BY FORD (Jul 14, 2010)

I am so sorry to hear of your loss, please accept my deepest sympathies having lost a dog before when i was young i truly feel your sadness. At least there was something learned in your tragedy and you can use it as a positive learning experience. Again I am truly sorry


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

stajbs said:


> Whoops, I should say I like my guy and hope to keep him around for a while too. He has had most of the work completed and they have begun work on new choppers for him now. Hopefully with your info and some investigating I did today we can save his remaining teeth.
> 
> With respect to the dogs I have noticed overall improvement in their teeth since switching to THK, even Blaze has improved it's just two of them at this point, but I will be discussing his dental issues more thoroughly with the vet now that I am better informed. For this reason I am grateful for this thread, but remain sad for the reasons you had to start it.
> 
> Take care!!


i'm not really ocd, but i used to be a practising psychiatrist, so i do bandy words about...and then forget that others don't have my gallows humour.

i didn't make the connection either on periodontal disease and nutrition....until recently...

i had a three credit course in nutrition in medical school...woeful, i know....but during my residency in psychiatry, there was a five year old boy in a locked ward, restrained much of the time, because he continually tried to murder his mother, usually with a knife and a rage so terrible that unless you saw it, it cannot be imagined.

at one point, the doctor who turned out to be my mentor, had a round table discussion with his residents and fellows...and it was a wild shot but someone suggested testing for allergies...know that in any psychiatric situation, testing is usually or should be performed to rule out physical conditions, such as brain tumours.

as the world turns, it turns out the child was allergic to oranges and the manifestation was behavioural.

he was taken off orange juice, returned to being a normal five year old and thus began my study of nutrition and the relationship between physiology and behaviour and humans...

would that i had extended it to dogs...but now i will....

i wish the best for your husband and i guess these things do come up for a reason....not too late for your hubby or mine....and maybe, just maybe, there's the glimmer.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

stajbs said:


> magicre,
> 
> I am far from OCD, which my husband is. I am however, an input junkie with a hang up. In the past 5 years I am off to research anything regarding dogs, but I have this hang-up about investigating human health issues. Bites me in the behind on occasion. I knew this could be a problem for humans, and a serious one at that, but in this case I have been letting him just deal with it, sad to say. His sitution is pretty much resolved now.
> 
> I work as a medical social worker with a non-profit foster care agency and I am quick to research what is needed at work to help children, but I am shamelessly stupid about doing it for us. Probably paranoia, or maybe there is another diagnosis for my issue.


wow. a medical social worker....for children no less...kudos...for real.


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## stajbs (Jun 5, 2010)

No kudos, just lots of stress. I however am feeling more inclined to be careful of any future persoanlity weaknesses I divulge to you. No more talk about my hang ups and paranoia. Soon you will have an official diagnosis for me. lol 

Kudos to you really!! That is a lot of work education and dedication. I'm often after the psychiatrist at work for meds.....he says if I'm worried about my sanity then I must be sane. Shucks!!

Seriously, it is the dogs and other family who keep me sane and trucking along through life. I did learn a long time ago to not beat myself up too much for decisions I have made in the past. Plus despite our difficult year we had one bright spot....we have a new family member. A grandson, soon to be one year old, born 6 weeks premature last September. He is just the coolest, neatest thing that has ever happened to us, next to the rush of driving a sled hooked to 4 or 5 siberians of course. 

Life has changed, we are dog people, just on a smaller scale, and when I finally kick, the legacy I want to leave behind for our grandson is related to his having positive experriences with dogs and perhaps gardening and playing in the soil. He loves the dogs and surprisingly the dogs do well with him. They are very tolerant, but of course they are never left unsupervised, nor will they ever be. 

I have enjoyed getting to know you and learning from you and the rest of the folks in this and other threads. 

Be good to yourselves!! I love th epic of your pup by the way, what face!! Priceless!


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