# My little boy is super skinny



## Justapup

When I first obtained Jud about a month ago he was covered in fleas and filled with parasites. Two flea baths later and a trip to the vet and no more fleas and no more parasites. But he has lost weight and I have attempted to increase is feed ... But it hurts his tummy and gives him the runs. But I need to put at least 5 pounds on him. I can see his hip bones and way too much spine and ribs. I was wondering if maybe anyone has an Idea of what I could do?

First vet visit he was 42 pounds. Second vet visit he was 40 Pounds.

I feed Medium Quality Kibble. First ingredient is a meal .No Corn but does have Grain in it (Plan on changing soonish)

He WAS fed 1 cup in the morning (after noon) and 1 cup at night with treats for training. when his tummy got upset he was being fed 2 cups in the morning and 1 at night. Now he is back to the original feeding but it is clearly not enough.

Jud A month ago:

















Jud Now:


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## Scarlett_O'

What is he currently being fed?
Going to a grain free food would be a good thing to do, but until you are able to do so, SLOWLY upping the amount you feed would be good. Only add 1/16th of a cup at a time once he has done good with that amount for 5 days then add another 1/16th of a cup, once good with that amount for 5 days add another, etc, etc, etc.


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## RedneckCowgirl

It sounds like he has a sensitive stomach. Just take it slow, he will get there! If he didn't seem so sensitive I'd say you could add a bit of raw hamburger. That always seems to pack the pounds on my dogs if I feed just a little too much lol


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## Justapup

I've learned as of recent that if I add a little Yogurt to his morning feedings that I can feed him about a cup 3 times a day and it not hurt his tummy as much. But I have to give him yogurt in the mornings otherwise just feeding him 3 times a day will hurt his stomach. But because it was asked this is what I am currently feeding and yes it does have grain in it. I haven't decided if I want to just change kibble all together or take all of the dogs off kibble and place them on a raw diet (I have a total of 5 dogs ...).

*StarPro Lamb And Rice*

*Ingredients*

Lamb meal, ground rice, ground yellow corn, corn gluten meal, ground oat groats, poultry fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and ascorbyl palmitate), poultry by-product meal, flaxseed, natural lamb flavor, brewers dried yeast, salt, potassium chloride, vitamin A acetate, vitamin D3 supplement, vitamin E supplement, ascorbic acid, vitamin B12 supplement, riboflavin supplement, dl-methionine, niacin, calcium pantothenate, choline chloride, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of vitamin K activity), folic acid, biotin, thiamine mononitrate, pyridoxine hydrochloride, sodium selenite, calcium iodate, ferrous sulfate, manganese sulfate, zinc sulfate, copper sulfate.	

*Guaranteed Analysis*
Crude Protein, min. 26.00%; Crude Fat, min. 16.00%; Crude Fiber, max. 3.50%; Moisture, max. 10.00%; Omega-6 Fatty Acids, min. 2.70%*; Omega-3 Fatty Acids, min. 0.40%*
*Not recognized as an essential nutrient by the AAFCO Dog 
Food Nutrient Profile.


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## LilasMom

This actually has a lot of corn! I would definitely switch to a higher quality kibble. That one has lots of grains, by products, as well as menadione which has been linked to liver toxicity


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## Justapup

I forgot to mention that he is very active. And I will be working with this dog in Weight Pull so I need to find something that will have enough calories to keep him from loosing so much weight. But A higher Quality kibble has been discussed. I am going to try and get my dogs on Evo or Innova. It jsut has to wait until I have the money though.


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## Scarlett_O'

LilasMom said:


> This actually has a lot of corn! I would definitely switch to a higher quality kibble. That one has lots of grains, by products, as well as menadione which has been linked to liver toxicity


I agree.

Get him-and the other dogs-away from that food and you will see a huge change!
I would HIGHLY suggest raw(I feed it to my 5 dogs and 2 cats)but if nothing else at least move to a corn free food, next best step would be a grain free food!:thumb:


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## LilasMom

Also the higher quality kibble will last longer and you will have to feed less because it is more nutrient dense, so it shouldn't be that much more expensive, if at all.


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## Justapup

thanks. You guys have been very helpful. Since his tummy problems might be from a sensitive tummy to grains and corn (or actually an allergy) ... I was suggested to make Satin balls for him and feed them to him. What are your thoughts on that? 

And A higher Quality food. Got ya.


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## Scarlett_O'

Justapup said:


> thanks. You guys have been very helpful. Since his tummy problems might be from a sensitive tummy to grains and corn (or actually an allergy) ... I was suggested to make Satin balls for him and feed them to him. What are your thoughts on that?
> 
> And A higher Quality food. Got ya.


I wouldnt chance putting too much into his system, and I dont like satin balls anyways, but thats beside the point.

I would focus on higher quality food(which as LilasMom said) will cost most per lbs but be fed less over all(meaning cost less in bulk and very possibly less per day.) 
I would HIGHLY suggest raw, but if you are looking at processed, like I said grain free(definitely corn free) and a brand with good ratings and one that is geared as much as possible to feeding pet carnivores!:wink:


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## Justapup

I'm waiting on my husband to start this new job at the end of August so we will be making better money and then I'm placing all the dogs on raw. LOL.... I think until then I can afford a bag or two of some high quality dog food. I also plan on eventually raising Chicken and Rabbits for Raw feedings (Well ... For family feedings too LOL). I also found out that there IS a butcher shop about 45 miles away. I want to go check it out. But until we start making better money, might as well wait. So higher quality, then the very slow transition to Raw.


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## RedneckCowgirl

Sorry to bring the thread slightly off topic...

but what the heck are satin balls?! lol


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## Scarlett_O'

Justapup said:


> I'm waiting on my husband to start this new job at the end of August so we will be making better money and then I'm placing all the dogs on raw. LOL.... I think until then I can afford a bag or two of some high quality dog food. I also plan on eventually raising Chicken and Rabbits for Raw feedings (Well ... For family feedings too LOL). I also found out that there IS a butcher shop about 45 miles away. I want to go check it out. But until we start making better money, might as well wait. So higher quality, then the very slow transition to Raw.


Well when you are ready to feel free to hop on over to the raw section!:wink:
I know for us we spend WAY less feeding 7 on raw then we did 3 on processed foods! But what you do it up to you! 



RedneckCowgirl said:


> Sorry to bring the thread slightly off topic...
> 
> but what the heck are satin balls?! lol


Michelle: Holistic Dog - Satinballs Satin Balls


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## RedneckCowgirl

Scarlett_O' said:


> Michelle: Holistic Dog - Satinballs Satin Balls


Interesting.... I won't comment further :tongue:


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## Justapup

Scarlet another reason I am waiting on Raw is because I'm pregnant and don't want to handle the raw meat >>; And my husband wont do it either. But when I get ready to start I will be sure to read over there and ask all my Qs there! ^^ I'm sure i'll get some very useful advice.


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## LilasMom

Justapup said:


> Scarlet another reason I am waiting on Raw is because I'm pregnant and don't want to handle the raw meat >>; And my husband wont do it either. But when I get ready to start I will be sure to read over there and ask all my Qs there! ^^ I'm sure i'll get some very useful advice.


Well you still have to take the same precautions with raw as you do with kibble. Both carry salmonella. I would start raw now before the baby comes so you already now how to manage it once he/she comes into your world. If you don't do raw, that is fine, but just make sure you still treat the kibble like raw meat. Many people have gotten sick this year from kibble salmonella. Keep bags tightly sealed out of heat and sun and wash hands after serving.


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## Justapup

LilasMom said:


> Well you still have to take the same precautions with raw as you do with kibble. Both carry salmonella. I would start raw now before the baby comes so you already now how to manage it once he/she comes into your world. If you don't do raw, that is fine, but just make sure you still treat the kibble like raw meat. Many people have gotten sick this year from kibble salmonella. Keep bags tightly sealed out of heat and sun and wash hands after serving.


I don't touch my kibble and I wash the containers and my hands real good after words. ^^; yeah I'm an odd one. I'm going to see how things look with the new job and talk to my husband and see if I do start Raw if he will help me with it. I guess if I make sure to wash my hands real good after handling the meat it wouldn't be bad right? I'm just scared to handle raw meat. I haven't even cooked with it. All the raw meat cooking has been by my husband.


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## RedneckCowgirl

LilasMom said:


> Well you still have to take the same precautions with raw as you do with kibble. Both carry salmonella. I would start raw now before the baby comes so you already now how to manage it once he/she comes into your world. If you don't do raw, that is fine, but just make sure you still treat the kibble like raw meat.* Many people have gotten sick this year from kibble salmonella*. Keep bags tightly sealed out of heat and sun and wash hands after serving.


This. Probably way more then people who have gotten in from handling raw meat. Just something to think about


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## LilasMom

You shouldn't be afraid of raw meat. Considering the things allowed in our drinking water and food that we don't typically know about, raw meat is pretty harmless and straightforward if you take the right precautions. Having a separate cutting board, knife, and kitchen shears for raw meat as well as section of the kitchen helps. I only handle the raw meat on one part of the kitchen counter so if there were bacteria it would not spread. Right after I finish preparing their meals I wipe down the counter with a multi-surface or countertop spray. If I am out of the spray I will use vinegar. I then wash my hands super well. I personally find raw safer because I do always make an effort to clean up after myself and sanitize the counters. and the dogs. Kibble just seems so innocent that I can imagine forgetting to wash my hands or not wiping the counter if it got on there.


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## Justapup

I'll talk it over with my husband and see what he says. ^^ Again I want to thank everyone.


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## Kibblelady

LilasMom said:


> This actually has a lot of corn! I would definitely switch to a higher quality kibble. That one has lots of grains, by products, as well as menadione which has been linked to liver toxicity


Menadione, yet another misunderstood ingredient.... here is a quote I found from the dogfoodadvisor site



> According to a peer-reviewed article published in 2004 by the Linus Pauling Institute at the Oregon State University:[SUP]7[/SUP]
> “Although allergic reaction is possible, there is no known toxicity associated with high doses of the phylloquinone (vitamin K1) or menaquinone (vitamin K2) forms of vitamin K[SUP]8[/SUP]. The same is not true for synthetic menadione (vitamin K3) and its derivatives. Menadione can interfere with the function of glutathione, one of the body’s natural antioxidants, resulting in oxidative damage to cell membranes. Menadione given by injection has induced liver toxicity, jaundice, and hemolytic anemia (due to the rupture of red blood cells) in infants[SUP]9[/SUP]; therefore, menadione is no longer used for treatment of vitamin K deficiency[SUP]10[/SUP]. No tolerable upper level of intake has been established for vitamin K.”​The FDA has *banned* the use of menadione from over-the-counter supplements because large doses have been shown to cause these dangerous biological effects.[SUP]11[/SUP]



There most *certianly* IS known toxic effects with vitamin K1, the natural form. If you research this looking for a case of a dog being poisoned or being caused a reaction from menadione, you will not find one. You can however find a number of cases of vitmain K1 poisonings in dogs. Menadione is dangerous to *human* infants.... not dogs. Humans have a different reaction to this synthetic vitamin in handling, packaging etc and there is the dangerous and deadly reaction in human infants. This is an effect on human beings, not dogs. As a comparison humans love chocolate, in many forms. Dogs have a problem with the alkoloid theobromine in chocolate and should not eat it and larger amounts of chocolate containing higher levels of this alkoloid will cause poisoning....

All living creatures on this planet are not alike and we all know this but why are people constantly acting like something poisonous to a dog is bad for a human and something poisonous to a human is bad for a dog? We are not the same species and I know I do not need to type that but the point needs to be made. Yeah I know, you see this menadione thing all over the place....look into it, it's not true. But, of course many manufactures were basically bullied into removing it from their product...... happens over and over.

Anyway, as for this dog in the original post. The dog looks extremely skinny to me....a dog that size should not be eating just 2 cups per day of the food listed.... he has to eat more. If he is experiencing GI upset when eating a closer to proper amount than another vet visit may be in order and maybe all of the parasites are not gone or he may have a protozoan infection such as Giardia. This dog IMO needs a normal or higher carb food to gain weight on, I would not go low carb so be sure the food you choose (if it is grain free) is not low carb. Does the dog always have that sort of tucked up stance? Have you noticed anything this else that may give a clue as to what is going on with him?


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## Justapup

Kibble I'm going to PM you Kay?


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## Kibblelady

Justapup said:


> I forgot to mention that he is very active. And I will be working with this dog in Weight Pull so I need to find something that will have enough calories to keep him from loosing so much weight. But A higher Quality kibble has been discussed. I am going to try and get my dogs on Evo or Innova. It jsut has to wait until I have the money though.


I would not use Evo for this dog, it is low in carbs. If you can get it locally I would suggest Blackwood pet foods. You can get formulas with corn or without, grain free etc as well as those with corn and a mix to add mega calories. These foods are used by many breeders and dog fanciers as well as performance dogs (sled dogs, police, ScHh, weight pulling etc) I have personally used them in the passed and was always *very* satisfied. The label was recently sold by the private owner to their manufacturer, Ohio Pet Foods, and they has great formulations and used to have great, reasonable prices. I do not know if the prices have changed, they probably have but I would look into it and see if you can get it locally. website is Blackwood Super Premium Pet Food | Slow Cooked in Small Batches


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## Justapup

Good lord! As great as that food sounds, the closest retailer is like 2 hours away!! D:


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## Kibblelady

Justapup said:


> Good lord! As great as that food sounds, the closest retailer is like 2 hours away!! D:


Aww that stinks  I used to get it from a local rep here in NJ. Paid 25 bucks for a 40lb bag! Man, that was awesome lol


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## Justapup

Kibblelady said:


> Aww that stinks  I used to get it from a local rep here in NJ. Paid 25 bucks for a 40lb bag! Man, that was awesome lol


I bet! Wow! that is a deal! haha


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## Scarlett_O'

Justapup said:


> Scarlet another reason I am waiting on Raw is because I'm pregnant and don't want to handle the raw meat >>; And my husband wont do it either. But when I get ready to start I will be sure to read over there and ask all my Qs there! ^^ I'm sure i'll get some very useful advice.


Well being 24 weeks along with my first my self that doesn't hold much weight with me, sorry. 
The first couple of months were rough for me, as I had MAJOR red meat adversions and couldnt even smell it without getting majorly sick. But my husband stepped up(in all reality knowing he didn't have a choice since the dogs and cats had to eat) and fed everyone perfectly!:thumb: But had I not had the adversions feeding would have gone on like normal, just as it is now!:wink: Do you not cook for your self and your husband? Aside from touching raw meat when cooking for humans there have been many cases of human food recalls over the past few years for issues that are normally linked to meat bagged salads, boxed pasta, tomatoes, cheese, sprouts and many more. 

Anyways, all I'm saying is "just" being pregnant shouldn't be any reason to not feed our pet carnivores a proper diet...if you don't want to do raw that's one thing....but it will be 2x as hard to start out once the babe is here!


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## Caty M

Kibblelady said:


> *I would not use Evo for this dog, it is low in carbs.* If you can get it locally I would suggest Blackwood pet foods. You can get formulas with corn or without, grain free etc as well as those with corn and a mix to add mega calories. These foods are used by many breeders and dog fanciers as well as performance dogs (sled dogs, police, ScHh, weight pulling etc) I have personally used them in the passed and was always *very* satisfied. The label was recently sold by the private owner to their manufacturer, Ohio Pet Foods, and they has great formulations and used to have great, reasonable prices. I do not know if the prices have changed, they probably have but I would look into it and see if you can get it locally. website is Blackwood Super Premium Pet Food | Slow Cooked in Small Batches


What is wrong with low carb? Most dogs tend to gain weight on these types of formulas unless the amount is adjusted, they can be very useful in weight gain.


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## meggels

Caty M said:


> What is wrong with low carb? Most dogs tend to gain weight on these types of formulas unless the amount is adjusted, they can be very useful in weight gain.



I've always seen the opposite, that dogs *lose* weight on lower carb foods.


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## Caty M

Just feed more of it :wink: lol. My cats used to be free fed EVO and it was the only food that made them gain weight, hah.


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## magicre

:usa::usa::usa::usa::usa:


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## Scarlett_O'

Dogs might gain weight on carb heavy food...but heck, so do I!:wacko: Doesnt mean its healthy weight, or proper weight...just means that they are being bulked up by carbs that they dont need and shouldnt be being fed!:wink:

I wish I still had the photos of Hubbers(my Dad's French Bulldog) from before he went raw(and was, against my wishes, on carb heavy food) and was quite bulked...but also bloated looking if you knew what you were looking at. Now, well he is 5lbs lighter then he was over a year ago, although he doesnt look it(he looks about 3lbs lighter)and he isnt bloated at all.


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## Justapup

My husband and I talked it over and before we do any food changing or anything we are taking his little butt back to a vet. If everything checks out then we are going to change foods and if that doesn't work then we will be placing him on a raw diet.


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## meggels

Caty M said:


> Just feed more of it :wink: lol. My cats used to be free fed EVO and it was the only food that made them gain weight, hah.


Well, duh :hand:


I've seen dogs and cats drop weight more often when they are placed on a higher quality grain free food, or raw  If you feed enough of a food they will gain it though haha. But from what I understand carbs are gonna put the pounds on an animal easier than mostly protein. 

I would try to just find a high quality grain free food that is highest in calories, dunno which food of the grain free's tends to have the most calories...


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## leilaquinn

Just wanted to say how CUTE!


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## Justapup

Thank you lol.

Update: He is going to the vet first thing in the morning. I applied for a credit line and was approved so I am getting his little but in and getting him checked out. I'll keep you guys posted on his condition.


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## Scarlett_O'

Justapup said:


> Thank you lol.
> 
> Update: He is going to the vet first thing in the morning. I applied for a credit line and was approved so I am getting his little but in and getting him checked out. I'll keep you guys posted on his condition.


Good luck! I really hope he has nothing truly wrong with him and "just" needs a better quality food!:thumb:
What all are you planning on having done/checked? (If you dont mind my asking!:smile


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## Justapup

what ever $1500 will cover. I'm going to discuss the different things with him. Other then a better fecal panel and blood work, any other suggestions?


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## Kibblelady

RedneckCowgirl said:


> Sorry to bring the thread slightly off topic...
> 
> but what the heck are satin balls?! lol


Wow you never heard of Satin balls? Now I feel really really old  Waaaaaaaaa lol


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## Kibblelady

What about live chickens? Does the meat have to be dead? ( a bit of snarkiness, sorry) There is currently an outbreak among people who ordered chicks and ducklings from a mail order hatchery. Those who ordered live chicks or ducks mailorder may want to check it out CDC - Salmonella Hadar Infections Linked to Live Poultry - Salmonella CDC - Salmonella Montevideo Infections Linked to Live Poultry - Salmonella 
CDC - Salmonella Infections Linked to Live Poultry - Salmonella yes there are three different strains they are counting as three different outbreaks for a total of 247 occurrences, 56 hospitalizations and 2 deaths . I am pointing this out to prove a point of course..... the outside of an animal and it's feces are a viable source and can transfer these pathogens... I believe (without flicking through them again) that the majority of those affected were those under 10, women and the elderly.


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## magicre

:usa::usa::usa::usa::usa::usa:


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## Scarlett_O'

Kibblelady said:


> What about live chickens? Does the meat have to be dead? ( a bit of snarkiness, sorry) There is currently an outbreak among people who ordered chicks and ducklings from a mail order hatchery. Those who ordered live chicks or ducks mailorder may want to check it out CDC - Salmonella Hadar Infections Linked to Live Poultry - Salmonella CDC - Salmonella Montevideo Infections Linked to Live Poultry - Salmonella
> CDC - Salmonella Infections Linked to Live Poultry - Salmonella yes there are three different strains they are counting as three different outbreaks for a total of 247 occurrences, 56 hospitalizations and 2 deaths . I am pointing this out to prove a point of course..... the outside of an animal and it's feces are a viable source and can transfer these pathogens... I believe (without flicking through them again) that the majority of those affected were those under 10, women and the elderly.


That has nothing what so ever to do with pet food.


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## magicre

:usa::usa::usa::usa::usa:


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## meggels

Never used satin balls myself, but another forum I was on, they were discussed and used quite a bit.


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## Liz

Satin balls have been around forever. Even before feeding raw and going natural in care they were not something I would give my dogs. At the time the grain did not bother me as much as the sugar. Plus it just seems like junk food.


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## RedneckCowgirl

Liz said:


> Satin balls have been around forever. Even before feeding raw and going natural in care they were not something I would give my dogs. At the time the grain did not bother me as much as the sugar. Plus it just seems like junk food.


That was the first thing I noticed... I was like "That is a TON of molasses"


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## Scarlett_O'

Liz said:


> Satin balls have been around forever. Even before feeding raw and going natural in care they were not something I would give my dogs. At the time the grain did not bother me as much as the sugar. Plus it just seems like junk food.


HAHA, ya, I remember first seeing them when I was about 12 and needing something to help the Basset gain weight....at that point we fed a grain inclusive food...but all I could think was "Holy sugar batman!"LOL :lol:


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## Kibblelady

magicre said:


> there are kibbles that would work for your dog...one with menadione bisulfate is not one of them.....nutro / natural choice had to remove it from their dog food as it was making dogs sick and causing elevated liver enzymes.....


Wasn't that Nutro thing the beginning of the whole melamine/Menu issue? I am trying to remember this whole thing. if so wasn't it the melamine and not the menadione causing the liver issues? Help me if I am connecting the wrong things.


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## Kibblelady

Scarlett_O' said:


> That has nothing what so ever to do with pet food.


It has to do with salmonella and how it can transfer from an animal to a human.


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## Scarlett_O'

Kibblelady said:


> It has to do with salmonella and how it can transfer from an animal to a human.


Live animals being shipped in their own feces/waste and generally packed in large amounts into small boxes doesnt have anything to do with food.


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## Kibblelady

Liz said:


> Satin balls have been around forever. Even before feeding raw and going natural in care they were not something I would give my dogs. At the time the grain did not bother me as much as the sugar. Plus it just seems like junk food.



They are basically for weight gain and they work. They are not meant as a diet or for long term everyday feeding, just to help weight and energy and are very useful in a dog that needs that energy or weight gain.


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## Kibblelady

magicre said:


> no need to get snarky at all. this is a friendly discussion and the focus is on a dog who is losing weight and is reacting to something in his current dog food.


I was being cute Mag, it has been a very friendly conversation and I have been helping the owner in this case.  no worries.


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## RedneckCowgirl

Kibblelady said:


> They are basically for weight gain and they work. They are not meant as a diet or for long term everyday feeding, just to help weight and energy and are very useful in a dog that needs that energy or weight gain.


I'm sure they work to give dogs diabetes too....


ETA: Fast food makes you gain weight. So does eating right. Which do you think is healthier?


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## Justapup

And we have solid Poop. I didn't feed him today since he had the runs so bad lastnight. Fasting, giving his body a chance to rest some. So now I am almost sure its a Kibble allergy. I am going to go a head and take him on into the vet. And look into getting some Chicken to start him slowly on a Raw diet. Just thought i'd give you guys this little update.


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## Scarlett_O'

Justapup said:


> And we have solid Poop. I didn't feed him today since he had the runs so bad lastnight. Fasting, giving his body a chance to rest some. So now I am almost sure its a Kibble allergy. I am going to go a head and take him on into the vet. And look into getting some Chicken to start him slowly on a Raw diet. Just thought i'd give you guys this little update.


YAY:dance: for solid poo!!!!:thumb:

You know I'm just a PM away can't wait to hear about the vet visit and then him going to raw!!:biggrin:


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## magicre

:usa::usa::usa::usa::usa:


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## Justapup

what does this have to do with my thread?


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## Kibblelady

RedneckCowgirl said:


> I'm sure they work to give dogs diabetes too....
> 
> 
> ETA: Fast food makes you gain weight. So does eating right. Which do you think is healthier?


That is being alarmist for no reason. Temporary supplement with satin balls is not going to give a dog diabetes. It is also not "fast food." Is everyone staring at the molasses and thinking "pancake syrup?"


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## Kibblelady

magicre said:


> with nutro, the menadione issue came up after the melamine. there were too many unexplained elevated liver enzymes in otherwise healthy dogs.
> 
> i remember researching this, because all four of my dogs had sky high liver enzymes.....and they were on no medications, had no health issues and each and every dog died before age 13.....these were healthy dogs.
> 
> i didn't make the connection until it was announced the nutro was discontinuing its use of menadione bisulfate.
> 
> by that time, i was home cooking and very sad.


Mag do you have some links for this? I would like to refresh my memory on it. Everything I have found so far for the liver enzyme thing and illness and death was in 2007 around the Menu recall. When did this other event happen?

Thanks


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## Kibblelady

Justapup said:


> what does this have to do with my thread?


Sorry, threads sometimes break off into various things, we try to reel it back though


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## magicre

:usa::usa::usa::usa::usa:


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## Justapup

Well quick update:

ALL of Jud's test came Negative. The vet told me to change kibble. SO I'm going to buy a chicken and start the slow transition to raw. I did not feed him any yesterday so he has had his 24 hour fast before starting.


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## magicre

:usa::usa::usa::usa::usa:


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## Justapup

He tried to get me to buy Purina One for Sensitive stomachs or the Puppy Chow.... I didn't tell him I was going to do raw. Just nodded my head, paid my bill and left. Come home and told my husband we need to go to the grocery store to buy a whole chicken so I can cut it up into the right amounts and store it and start Jud on Raw. I put it like this to my husband though "Jud has a Kibble allergy. So I'm giving him raw." "Vet said to?" "Vet doesn't know. He just told me to change foods." LOL.


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## Justapup

Scarlett your PMs are full D:


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## magicre

:usa::usa::usa::usa::usa:


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## Justapup

LOL! Its alright i'll just save my response to her and send it later.

^^ She's been a big help giving me advice and what to start with. I was asking questions all day yesterday, reading and printing things out!


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## magicre

:usa::usa::usa::usa::usa:


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## Justapup

Well hopefully he will be on the road to recovery now and get not only a nice tone but a good weight on him ^^ And once my husband starts making better money I will be switching the other two dogs of mine; Snow and Koi, to raw. Zeus is very old and really belongs to my husband. And he wants him to stay on kibble. Which is fine with me. ^^; And the other dog has soft food so He can stay on that. But I am just so happy. You guys are so helpful.


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## magicre

:usa::usa::usa::usa::usa:


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## Justapup

I Do have some Yogurt I bought and was giving him with the kibble and it helped for a little while. I don't know if I want to continue it though.


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## Scarlett_O'

They are cleaned out now, my email yelled at me just before I saw your post!!:smile:
And I'm so happy that all tests came back free and clear!:thumb: Can't wait to see this boy looking how he should be looking...after just a few months on raw!!:biggrin:


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## MollyWoppy

Don't forget too, that sometimes these things do go off topic a bit, but that information can help other people as well. Hopefully people looking for a new kibble and reading this thread will now know to steer clear of kibbles with melamine and menadione bisulfate in them as well as understanding the reason why.
I learnt from re today that menadione bisulfate can harm the liver, so as my kitten is on kibble, I will be keeping a look out for that particular ingredient from now on.

And, it sounds like you were expecting the vets normal negative response to people feeding raw, I was going to warn you about that but was too late posting.
I was at the vets today and actually had a good long talk with the chief vet tech about raw that was surprisingly positive. Maybe your vet might surprise you too once he can tell that you've done your research and aren't taking risks with your pup's health.

I'm very happy you're starting him on a good diet though, if you have any questions just ask, no matter how stupid you think they are. We've all been there, done that!


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## magicre

:usa::usa::usa::usa::usa:


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## MollyWoppy

See, you read my mind re. Molly started on antibiotics today and I was going to get some yogurt until I read this thread. Now I'll eat the yogurt and get Mol a probiotic instead. I'll see if I can find the one you mention. 
These threads can help a lot of others in unexpected ways.


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## LilasMom

MollyWoppy said:


> Don't forget too, that sometimes these things do go off topic a bit, but that information can help other people as well. Hopefully people looking for a new kibble and reading this thread will now know to steer clear of kibbles with melamine and menadione bisulfate in them as well as understanding the reason why.
> I learnt from re today that menadione bisulfate can harm the liver, *so as my kitten is on kibble*, I will be keeping a look out for that particular ingredient from now on.
> 
> And, it sounds like you were expecting the vets normal negative response to people feeding raw, I was going to warn you about that but was too late posting.
> I was at the vets today and actually had a good long talk with the chief vet tech about raw that was surprisingly positive. Maybe your vet might surprise you too once he can tell that you've done your research and aren't taking risks with your pup's health.
> 
> I'm very happy you're starting him on a good diet though, if you have any questions just ask, no matter how stupid you think they are. We've all been there, done that!



Have you tried canned food? Kibble isn't really good for cats


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## Scarlett_O'

LilasMom said:


> Have you tried canned food? Kibble isn't really good for cats


She has tried so many different things it isnt even funny any more!!:wacko:

Goofy cat has her number up, down and sideways....and is VERY, VERY picky as to what she eats!:tinfoil3:


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## MollyWoppy

Scarlett_O' said:


> She has tried so many different things it isnt even funny any more!!:wacko:
> 
> Goofy cat has her number up, down and sideways....and is VERY, VERY picky as to what she eats!:tinfoil3:



Anyone want a cat? Free to good home? I'll pay you to take her. I'll throw in a husband as well???


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## Scarlett_O'

MollyWoppy said:


> Anyone want a cat? Free to good home? I'll pay you to take her. I'll throw in a husband as well???



HAHAHHAHAAHA, I dont think you could pay me enough to take that little skank of a cat of yours!HAHAHAAAHAHAH (Let alone wanting a 2nd husband, good gawd no!:tongue


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## Rvent

My Max has had serious stomach sensitivity, (think it is a pit bull thing) his test have been all good, raw was the only thing that got him doing better, he has IBD, he is on a pro biotic, coconut oil and a tablespoon of pumpkin every other day or so (for fiber)....he still has an occasional flare up but since I incorporated these things and watch how much fat I give him he is doing much better. his problem is not being able to lose weight ...he is a little thick


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## magicre

:usa::usa::usa::usa::usa::usa:


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## magicre

:usa::usa::usa::usa::usa::usa:


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## MollyWoppy

Scarlett_O' said:


> HAHAHHAHAAHA, I dont think you could pay me enough to take that little skank of a cat of yours!HAHAHAAAHAHAH (Let alone wanting a 2nd husband, good gawd no!:tongue


But, but, he still has all his teeth, promise!



magicre said:


> why is she on antibiotics, as i take this thread down yet another path?


Ahem, er, well, I think he called it vaginitis. :redface: We caught it very early thankfully. I can imagine, being a female, how painful that could be.
Don't ask me how or why, vet doesn't know either, apparently it just happens in some dogs. Hope it isn't catchy!


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## Scarlett_O'

MollyWoppy said:


> But, but, he still has all his teeth, promise!


HAHA, teeth arent an issue, but husbands generally come with inlaws...and BELIEVE me I dont need to have to deal with more inlaws!! :wacko:


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## magicre

:usa::usa::usa::usa::usa:


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## Liz

Cranberry capsules are great for urinary tract and some vaginal infections. ACV helps to balance internal PH and I would also use to clean her externally diluted with water - about half water/half ACV. We periodically give the girls Raspberry leaf tea and have had great results inhibiting infections. JMHO Just wanted to give you some tools for the future.

Definitely get the Primal Defense to help her with the anti biotic. You want to keep giving the pro biotic about three months after finishing the meds.  It takes at least that long to repair the gut. Tripe is also excellent to help repopulate the gut flora.


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