# Raw poops...



## meggels (May 30, 2010)

From that FB group I keep discussing:

" You don't want hard poops that turn white after a couple days.

That's too much bone."


But...I love those poops?!


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## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

Those poops are fine, just watch Murph and if he's straining to go or poops dust, THAT'S a problem, but small hard poops that change color over a couple days are just fine.


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## Mondo (Dec 20, 2011)

I like them small and hard, although my boys have always been differrent. Tuffy's have always been more consistent, Toby a bit more all over the place.

I have noticed smaller poops from both of them, having made the switch to all raw a couple or 3 weeks ago.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

i like small poops that are formed....and easy to pick up....they don't need to turn to dust....


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## monkeys23 (Dec 8, 2010)

magicre said:


> i like small poops that are formed....and easy to pick up....they don't need to turn to dust....


Ditto here.


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

Meggels, you need to STOP following that group...they obviously are a group of people "unique to themselves"!


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

I like seeing all the small poops. It tells me the raw is doing its job, being incredibly digestible.


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## jdatwood (Apr 13, 2009)

Gotta agree with Whiteleo. You've gotta decide where you want to get advice from. There's so many ways to do this that you're always going to get conflicting info. 

What kind of poops are they saying you want to see? Our dogs definitely don't get too much bone and theirs ALWAYS turn white as they dry out (unless they have squirts after an organ meal)

I see they've advised you against chicken backs. There's no reason to NOT feed them. Remember, our methods are tried and true.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

ALot of Rebel's poops turn to dust after a few days. He has no trouble pooping and the poop comes out normal.

My husband especially likes them - he explodes them with the lawn mower. POOF! no more poop.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

whiteleo said:


> Meggels, you need to STOP following that group...they obviously are a group of people "unique to themselves"!


doncha know they are 18000 to 23000 strong and know everything there is to know about raw feeding because they've been doing it for a hundred million years?


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

Ours turn white also, and like your husband Wayne really likes that about them as well. He says its nice to cut the grass and not have huge stinky splatters of poop like we did about two years ago. He goes over them and they are just.....gone!


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

magicre said:


> doncha know they are 18000 to 23000 strong and know everything there is to know about raw feeding because they've been doing it for a hundred million years?


Yep, absolutely! LOL


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

naturalfeddogs said:


> Ours turn white also, and like your husband Wayne really likes that about them as well. He says its nice to cut the grass and not have huge stinky splatters of poop like we did about two years ago. He goes over them and they are just.....gone!


Yes, our 103 pound dog is pooping about the same amount as our mini dachshund used to poop. 

Our dachshund's poops don't dry into dust, though - her diet is so rich because of her constipation I guess it can't dry out. But still, it is tiny and never has to be picked up any more.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

This thread was mostly made in a joking manner. I find that group pretty extreme, but what exactly, makes their way wrong vs this groups way??? 

"Feeding appropriate food is the goal, and the plus of a species appropriate diet is better overall health--mental, dental, physical. 

A constant supply of white crumbly stools means you are feeding too much bone ALL THE TIME! This is not a plus, nor a goal. It is a mistake. Feeding too much bone so that one's yard chores are diminished is a concept that definitely needs rethinking. 

Feed what best suits the species: lots of meat, some organs, some bone. Any more than just enough to firm stools is too much."


So I asked, "What kind of poops are ideal" and she said "Those that adequately represent the meal they follow."



Which doesn't answer a whole lot lol.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

I have seen my dog's poops come out of his butt like sand. That, to me, is white and crumbly.

BUT, when they come out like normal poop - not too hard, not too soft - and then turn white and crumbly a few days later - I don't think that's wrong.

in fact, if they DON'T do that with Rebel, his stools are coming out way too soft and mooshy.

No one feeds too much bone to reduce lawn work. That is just stupid, and a ridiculous argument against stools that turn white.

It's a nice side effect, not a fricken goal. That is a really irritating comment.


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## shellbell (Sep 24, 2011)

My yard is currently full of white dusty poop, lol.


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## jdatwood (Apr 13, 2009)

meggels said:


> This thread was mostly made in a joking manner. I find that group pretty extreme, but what exactly, makes their way wrong vs this groups way???
> 
> "Feeding appropriate food is the goal, and the plus of a species appropriate diet is better overall health--mental, dental, physical.
> 
> ...


Pretty crappy answer if you ask me...


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

I think you will find your answers if you follow their advise and feed thighs to start. Murphy has been through this before but my guess is that he still needs more bone in the beginning!


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

There's no issue with seeking alternative advice. In fact, I don't think that the raw feeders on dfc are the only folks in the universe with healthy dogs who know a thing or two about species appropriate feeding. 
BUT
Any group is going to have their dominating methods and advice. You will drive yourself insane trying to get one answer across the entire Internet. Also, it's kind of nuts to believe that every dog needs the exact same ratios of meat bone and organ. If I fed mousse the amount of bone I feed Annie, it would be too much. If I fed Annie as little bone as I feed mousse, well... I'd never set foot in my back yard again from all the diarrhea!

My point is, pick the group that makes most sense to you, that you trust, and stick with that advice. Bouncing all over won't give any kind of consistency and will only make for more frustration for you, and a harder transition for the murph.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

I mostly browse that group, figuring I could learn some things here and there.


But I made the mistake of posting the topic about transitioning Murph and got "yelled at" (for lack of better term) for starting him on necks/backs. 

They also don't like drummies. I think they are a tough crowd (tougher than this one!) and really drive people away with their demeanor in "helping" people. 


It is fun to read though lol.


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## jdatwood (Apr 13, 2009)

meggels said:


> I mostly browse that group, figuring I could learn some things here and there.
> 
> 
> But I made the mistake of posting the topic about transitioning Murph and got "yelled at" (for lack of better term) for starting him on necks/backs.
> ...


They sound identical to the Yahoo Raw Feeding group (are they one in the same?). They can be very nasty


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

I believe it's the FB branch of the Yahoo group.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

jdatwood said:


> They sound identical to the Yahoo Raw Feeding group (are they one in the same?). They can be very nasty


yeah, it is....very narrow...

very goose stepping and filled with lots of sarcasm and put downs to newbies, who are scared and unsure to begin with.


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

I don't totally agree with that group(s) but their answer as to what "perfect poop" looks like is pretty much spot on. 

If you put beef into a grinder it should come out looking like beef....not chicken, turkey, fish, etc!:wink:

So if I give Rhett, Brody, Leo, or Dixi beef heart then their poops should show that....how ever each of their "grinders" deals with it!!:tongue: Same can be said for any protein, cut, etc. 

That is how I take that answer at least, as I use it my self when people ask....I've never had a single person who couldn't figure out what I meant. 


After all it IS all about knowing thy dog....what works for one might not work for another, and thus the owner should be ready to tweak as needed!:wink:


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Scarlett_O' said:


> I don't totally agree with that group(s) but their answer as to what "perfect poop" looks like is pretty much spot on.
> 
> If you put beef into a grinder it should come out looking like beef....not chicken, turkey, fish, etc!:wink:
> 
> ...


man, I'm not nearly as observant as you. As long as it comes out brown and gooey I'm good with it!


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

xellil said:


> man, I'm not nearly as observant as you. As long as it comes out brown and gooey I'm good with it!


HAHAHAHHA, I have a poop eater.....so I know what EVERYONE's stool looks like!!!!!:tongue:


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## tuckersmom20 (Dec 12, 2010)

Yard is covered in white poops here....

Well ok now they blend in with the snow, but i cant remember the last time i've picked up poop.
It rains here often, and when it rains i see the poop just disintegrate away.... 
But to me, if poop does that, then theyre using every ounce of food and their poop is fully decompostable as opposed to kibble poop.
I still have kibble poop in my yard,... my mom comes over with her golden and leaves kibble poop.... and i know which are kibble poop.

My 16 lb shih tzu, poops poo a lil larger than rabbit poo...


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## Mondo (Dec 20, 2011)

I inspect poop and always have, it is a great indicator of health. This morning we had a nice hour long walk in -20c weather. Toby pooped 4 times, Tuffy twice. A variety of hardness, but all were firm. Some bone in there for sure. I have noticed much smaller poops, and of late things are firming up. Been on raw for around 1 month now. Can't see ever going back to what Lonsdale calls "junk food".


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

Mondo said:


> I inspect poop and always have, it is a great indicator of health. This morning we had a nice hour long walk in -20c weather. Toby pooped 4 times, Tuffy twice. A variety of hardness, but all were firm. Some bone in there for sure. I have noticed much smaller poops, and of late things are firming up. Been on raw for around 1 month now. Can't see ever going back to what Lonsdale calls "jumk food".


we also inspect poo....i believe we are quite the experts on poo now LOL.....and i agree...it's a great indicater of health and amount of bone they are having or need....

well done you for going raw.....i have great respect for dr. lonsdale.


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## BrownieM (Aug 30, 2010)

meggels said:


> This thread was mostly made in a joking manner. I find that group pretty extreme, but what exactly, makes their way wrong vs this groups way???
> 
> "Feeding appropriate food is the goal, and the plus of a species appropriate diet is better overall health--mental, dental, physical.
> 
> ...


Well, I kind of agree. You should not be having stool that comes out white and crumbly. This IS a sign you are feeding too much bone and not enough meat. 

Basically they are saying that when you feed a boney meal, you might have dry stool. After a meat meal, you should ahve a pretty average stool, after an organ meal, you might have looser stool. But to have always crumbly stool is NOT good.

And do keep in mind that perfect stools do not necessarily = a perfect diet. Your dog's diet can be lacking and they can have firm stools. The diet can be great and they can have a bit softer stools. There was one study that involved feeding a ground rabbit diet that demonstrated this.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

What they said was that stools that TURN white and crumbly after a few days is not ideal. I know ones that come out white and crumbly would not be good lol. I saw a goldendoodle poop once and it literally turned into dust and "shattered" when it hit the ground, it shocked me lol.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

meggels said:


> What they said was that stools that TURN white and crumbly after a few days is not ideal. I know ones that come out white and crumbly would not be good lol. I saw a goldendoodle poop once and it literally turned into dust and "shattered" when it hit the ground, it shocked me lol.


If you don't want stools that turn white and crumbly, feed less bone. Do whatever you want. It's your dog. You know what they think, you know what most people here think. Make up your mind which way you want to go.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

xellil said:


> If you don't want stools that turn white and crumbly, feed less bone. Do whatever you want. It's your dog. You know what they think, you know what most people here think. Make up your mind which way you want to go.


I was merely asking about what they posted, it was kind of shocking to me, and so different from what I've heard here. Jeeze. Thought it was interesting, that's all.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

meggels said:


> I was merely asking about what they posted, it was kind of shocking to me, and so different from what I've heard here. Jeeze. Thought it was interesting, that's all.


Seems like you are looking for validation for one way or the other and you certainly didn't say you were shocked they thought they shouldn't be crumbly at all, ever - but after you read that person saying people make crumbly stools to make yard work easier, there shouldn't even be a question that they are fools.

I don't think it's a bit shocking some people don't want the crunbly stools. It's a matter of opinion and in the end probably doesn't make much difference to the dog as long as they have firm and not loose stools.

But to give even one iota of credence to people who assign lazy and selfish reasons to people who want crumbly poop - it's irritating, frankly. they're not worth a minute of your time in my opinion.


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

meggels said:


> What they said was that stools that TURN white and crumbly after a few days is not ideal. I know ones that come out white and crumbly would not be good lol. I saw a goldendoodle poop once and it literally turned into dust and "shattered" when it hit the ground, it shocked me lol.


Actually a few people stated just what was said here!:wink:

You first said,on the last thread about poo that I saw, in reference to Megan M saying "You don't want hard poops that turn white after a couple days."(which I believe, from her posts down below she meant you dont ALWAYS want those.)

"Wow, I never knew that. I thought stools that turn white after a few days were the goal..."

Then Chris said

"Feeding appropriate food is the goal, and the plus of a species appropriate diet is better overall health--mental, dental, physical.
A constant supply of white crumbly stools means you are feeding too much bone ALL THE TIME! This is not a plus, nor a goal. It is a mistake. Feeding too much bone so that one's yard chores are diminished is a concept that definitely needs rethinking.
Feed what best suits the species: lots of meat, some organs, some bone. Any more than just enough to firm stools is too much."

You then asked: 
"what kind of poops are ideal?" 

Chris replied:

"Those that adequately represent the meal they follow."

Then you asked 
"So poops that turn white after a few days are a no no? I know you don't want poops that crumble immediately..." 
and Megan M answered 
"Still too much bone, if that's their 'normal' poops.
Early on in the intro period of raw feeding - while you're introing new meats and organs - feeding more than 10% edible digestible bone overall is OK - it helps most new-to-raw dogs over the initial hump and keeps their owners from freaking out over loose poops.
BUT, thinking that is ideal, and something to strive for, is not correct. Over a dog's lifetime, it will, and should, have soft poops, loose poops, firm poops, even runny, or hard or 'fossil'' poops - always depending on what was fed in the last couple few meals.
THAT is normal.
10% edible digestible bone overall in a feeding plan isn't much, and its easy to get used to feeding bony parts, and scooping rabbit pellet poops, but its not ideal for a dog."


Anyways..ya...Im not going to keep quoting everyone, but I believe a LOT(no not all) of their answers WERE a LOT like DFC's!:wink:


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

That's why i just don't watch poops that close any more. I watch from the deck and if it isn't running out like water or sand I don't worry about it. I quit trekking out to the end of the yard to give a close examination.

I know lots of folks examine poops closely, but I also think we can overthink this to the point of obsession.


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

xellil said:


> That's why i just don't watch poops that close any more. I watch from the deck and if it isn't running out like water or sand I don't worry about it. I quit trekking out to the end of the yard to give a close examination.
> 
> I know lots of folks examine poops closely, but I also think we can overthink this to the point of obsession.


HAHA, exactly!! If it wasnt for my poo-eater, or the fact that we are a mere 7 months in, I wouldnt worry about it at all!


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Scarlett_O' said:


> HAHA, exactly!! If it wasnt for my poo-eater, or the fact that we are a mere 7 months in, I wouldnt worry about it at all!


Yep if I had one that ate poo I'd be watching closely also.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

Abi, I took her post as meaning you don't want those ever. 

I asked questions to get answers to what their beliefs were. I apparently misunderstood this group's view on poops, because I was under the impression that stools that regularly turn white and crumble after a few days were ideal? Not because of yard clean up obv, just because it's what is ideal? I've never gotten the impression that soft stools were ideal from reading here. So apparently I've misunderstood if the two groups do share similar stool ideals lol.


ETA: I asked them those questions because I didn't want to directly challenge anything, based on what I've seen in the group in the past with people who don't necessarily agree. I wanted to hear their opinion without sounding like I was arguing.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

xellil said:


> Seems like you are looking for validation for one way or the other and you certainly didn't say you were shocked they thought they shouldn't be crumbly at all, ever - but after you read that person saying people make crumbly stools to make yard work easier, there shouldn't even be a question that they are fools.
> 
> I don't think it's a bit shocking some people don't want the crunbly stools. It's a matter of opinion and in the end probably doesn't make much difference to the dog as long as they have firm and not loose stools.
> 
> But to give even one iota of credence to people who assign lazy and selfish reasons to people who want crumbly poop - it's irritating, frankly. they're not worth a minute of your time in my opinion.



I think you're taking this way more seriously than I was...

It's always hard to tell tone when reading/writing posts, but mine was written in jest. I was surprised at their comment, and posted the original post in a joking manner because well... I do love the poops that crumble after few days


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Now this I totally agree with:



> Over a dog's lifetime, it will, and should, have soft poops, loose poops, firm poops, even runny, or hard or 'fossil'' poops - always depending on what was fed in the last couple few meals.
> THAT is normal.


mainly because that's been my experience with my dogs. Poops don't stay exactly the same like we expect with kibble because we aren't feeding them exactly the same thing all the time.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

I guess I misunderstood in the past from reading here, I thought that the poops Murph has had on like...chicken necks/wings/drummies is what I would expect for the remainder of raw feeding too (once he moved onto other proteins of course).


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

meggels said:


> I guess I misunderstood in the past from reading here, I thought that the poops Murph has had on like...chicken necks/wings/drummies is what I would expect for the remainder of raw feeding too (once he moved onto other proteins of course).


Ya, Im thinking you just misunderstood....Ive actually said in the past that everyone who is getting into raw(I had to tell my Mum this QUITE often at first, now she tells my dad) that what goes in DOES come out looking a LOT the same!

If I were to go in and fix breakfast right now for everyone and give them all pork heart with a tiny bit of bone in chicken(like they are use to getting) they would all have a dark red kind of tar like poo within 24 hours....and yet if I were to go in and give them all bone-in turkey they would have grey/white/yellow poo. So yes, it IS really about what goes in DOES come out...and when its not all the same going in it wont be the same coming out either!:wink:


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Honestly, i just look for poops that aren't too hard or too soft and that he's not straining too long. 

If they end up crumbly then I guess they just do. But if i look in the yard and they aren't turning white, i don't worry about that either. 

My constipated dog's poops never ever turn white, and that's because she gets alot of organs. 

And please keep in mind that I just started all this April. I'm not that much of an expert for sure.

I know one thing - if I feed beef heart and his poop doesn't look like beef heart it doesn't bother me one tiny bit.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

I notice a diff in color when murph gets beef vs chicken....I guess I thought that it would all be tiny and crumbly LOL.


Well, now I'm a little heartbroken


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

meggels said:


> I notice a diff in color when murph gets beef vs chicken....I guess I thought that it would all be tiny and crumbly LOL.
> 
> 
> Well, now I'm a little heartbroken


yea, you'll have to do that extra yardwork sometimes, dang it :biggrin:


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

I have to pick em up anyways, apartment complex rules LOL.

This little old lady that loves Murph was standing out on the front stoop the other morning, and Murph poo'd, and I had bag in hand ready...and she goes "I didn't see nothin...don't worry" LOL.


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

When I feed too many boneless meals in a row, my dogs poop let me know its time for bone, like yesterday, when I took them for a walk and literally had to pick up all the leaves and sticks with the poo to get it because it was so soft. LOL


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## BrownieM (Aug 30, 2010)

Unless my dogs have liquid stool, I do not worry about poops. I personally do not believe that it is good to have stool that turns crumbly and dusty regularly within a couple of days. I think that this would be normal after a bone-in meal, but I would agree that your overall diet is far too heavy in bone if this is regular.

In one week, you should have some stool that does turn crumbly in a few days. This would be representative of you feeding bone in meals. Then, you will have some softer stools that are from your boneless meals. 

Anyway, as I said before, I don't think that stool is all that telling of your diet. Well, it is telling in that firm stool is a direct result of feeding bone, but I don't think it determines whether or not your diet is adequate.


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## happygirlx3 (Feb 22, 2010)

This might sound strange, but I never ever look at my dog's poop unless we're out walking and I'm lucky. When my dog needs to go out I just open the door and wait for her to want back in. Our backyard is fairly large and even when I first started feeding raw I never went out of my way to find her poop. If she had diarrhea I'd probably figure it out, but so far we've been lucky. I follow the rules by feeding 80/10/10 and we have the same food schedule every week. I'm pretty sure she's healthy. I guess my point is, don't worry too much about the poop! :smile:

Edited to add: Molly has been on raw for a little over a year now!


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

I'm a poop watcher.
Our packs stools definitely vary depending on what we feed, but I wouldn't say it comes out looking like it went in. We feed chicken for days in a row when we travel or board them, as it's easy, and it tends to turn yellowish. A large amount of organ turns it very dark, and a bit softer. Red meat produces a dark compact stool. Too much bone gives a dry, crumbly stool....

What I do not get from my dogs on raw is big gooey cowpie poops, rancid poo, liquid squirts, and piles that make me wonder if dinosaurs are, in fact, extinct.

Given enough time, even kibble poo will crumble away. I don't think stools should crumble upon exit, and I think climate and the ground come into play here. When I lived in Vegas where it's dry and the side yard was rocks, it turned to dust fast. Here in Utah in the grass (ok. Ok, it's more like dirt now...) it takes longer...


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