# All of You Shapers Out There!



## pandaparade (Dec 29, 2010)

Well, I am new to shaping 100% of everything I teach, and I just love it. Once your dog picks up on thinking for himself without lures, it is amazing what a dog can do without any help other than a click here and there to show him what he is doing correctly. Anyways, I wanted to challenge you shapers out there to shape a trick I am working on. I want you to teach your dogs to go around two cones in a circle without lures and purely shaping. It will look like this:









The Rules:
Dog must not be lured in any way, this is a shaping only exercise
Please keep sessions short, (less than 5 minutes) 
Do not name it unless you have it down, and you do not have to continue saying it over and over when the dog reaches your position, meaning, if the dog goes around once, and sits in front of you, then this is not want I want.
Please please please only use positive methods!

Basically I want the dog to go around the cones without stoping in front of you staring and waiting. Eventually, if done correctly, the dog will keep going around the cones until clicked. I saw this in a Bob Bailey video with chickens at chicken camp. If a chicken can do it, a doggy can! 

Please post progress videos here to! I will as well.

ETA: At first it can be confusing, but if the mechanics are right, your dog can pick up on it fast. For those who have not watched the Bob Bailey DVD over it, think about the mechanics and when you are feeding and WHERE you are feeding. I will give hints soon if anyone is struggling.


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## Tobi (Mar 18, 2011)

Were still working on the Box game and targeting :lol: this is "advanced shaping" for us!!!

But today my gf was working with him and got him picking up the box without trying to demolish it pretty consistently... just takes alot of time and patience but it is so rewarding, this is awesome and something we will deffiantely work on later! thank you!!!


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## pandaparade (Dec 29, 2010)

Can not wait till you get where you feel confident to try this!


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## Tobi (Mar 18, 2011)

how long have you been working on it? and what are the possible applications? just for funzies? I can't wait till we are at that point either, we just got our first offering of behaviors today in which was phenomenal (1st time offering and not out of frustration)


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## pandaparade (Dec 29, 2010)

Only two sessions, he has got the first lap down with one treat. Rotating the area I treat him in. Honestly I bet Tobi could start soon. I put both cones together at first, and had the dog look at the cones, and he got a treat, then go near the cones and when he did, I would throw the treat.. here is an image to make more sense.










pardon my paint skills. Anyways on step three.. the last one.. when the dog comes back to you and stares at you, wait, and the moment he looks at the cones, you start back at step one essentially.. and eventually ask for more later on. You want to treat AWAY from you.. otherwise the dog will keep coming back to YOU.


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## Tobi (Mar 18, 2011)

I love your paint skills!!!! you should be proud of those instructions!! thank you so much, we might try this we can get some cheapy cones from the store up the treats (sporting goods) This is kinda how we do the box game, with it as far away from us as possible trying to get him to just not sit there and stare at us... The very first time we started shaping i stood there with treats behind my back for about an hour... just having a stare off... i'd break eye contact with him and look at the box, then back at him, i'd click when he'd even turn his head... and i honestly was like wtf this dog is dense he's not going to get it! :lol: so you're giving him more credit than i would! I like how you reward at the "hotspot" too it really reinforces that oh ya this is the good spot 

get some video!! i'd love to see yours in action, we could all share shaping progress!! i can only do stills atm but it could work :lol:


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## pandaparade (Dec 29, 2010)

It reinforces not always returning to you. This is great to use with anything shaped... you do not have to always feed from the hand or you will possibly make it harder for the dog to understand what you want when he gets everything reinforced in your area rather than the object. You see, a lot of people would have the dog go around the cones and treat either when the dog gets back to them or treat somewhere like behnd yourself to reset the dog but if you do that.. like I did at first, you will find that the dog will go around, come to you and stare at you for the treat. The next session I threw it in the areas I pointed out and he started to get what I wanted. Now he can go around the cone furthest from me and back, and then back to the furthest cone, and on his way there, I am clicking and treating him.. eventually I will make him go around twice.


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## pandaparade (Dec 29, 2010)

EXCELLENT video of what I want to see (the first clip)






And YES, the chickens circle around red cones, and figure eight around yellow cones... without cues... oh brilliant!


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## Tobi (Mar 18, 2011)

pandaparade said:


> It reinforces not always returning to you. This is great to use with anything shaped... you do not have to always feed from the hand or you will possibly make it harder for the dog to understand what you want when he gets everything reinforced in your area rather than the object. You see, a lot of people would have the dog go around the cones and treat either when the dog gets back to them or treat somewhere like behnd yourself to reset the dog but if you do that.. like I did at first, you will find that the dog will go around, come to you and stare at you for the treat. The next session I threw it in the areas I pointed out and he started to get what I wanted. Now he can go around the cone furthest from me and back, and then back to the furthest cone, and on his way there, I am clicking and treating him.. eventually I will make him go around twice.


Ya for sure, we toss the treat into the box at the start of each session to mark the box as the thing he should be interacting with... I'm not sure what my gf is getting at by having him pick it up... but it's progress!

Thats crazy!! it's had to see where they are marking it though since there are like 2-3 clickers going off int he background! lol

I guess this goes to show that really any animal can adapt to clicker training it makes me giggle because of the arguments i get into about clickers being useless for "hard" dogs...


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## pandaparade (Dec 29, 2010)

When the food comes out, they are getting clicked right before. This is the final product of that trick though, so it will take a while for you and I to get there. Check out the chicken looking for reinforcement away from the trainer though!


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## pandaparade (Dec 29, 2010)

Tobi, check this out for a better understanding.. although this is figure eight work, you can see where he reinforces to behaviors.


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## SerenityFL (Sep 28, 2010)

This is new to me so I will have to read more about it but I did want to say, your paint skills are fine. I love your paint doggeh! lol


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## pandaparade (Dec 29, 2010)

Serenity, do indeed read more into it.. I switched from lure to shaping after I saw a big change in my dog's success level with it. You will love it, shaping sets the dog up for success always which makes it so much easier since the dog will start offering behaviros more often.


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## CavePaws (Jan 25, 2011)

Gonna give this a whirl with Indi. Indi is my only dog I've done real shaping with, sadly. :[ I don't have cones...mind if I use something else? What would you suggest?


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## pandaparade (Dec 29, 2010)

pots, or buckets?


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

I've been doing nearly all shaping for the past 6ish months. BIG difference. 

My boss has been out of town for the second part of this past week, and with 11 hours of not much to do but answer phones....this is what happens LOL:










I will do this challenge though! Not sure how I'm going to get it in video since ours was packed and there's no one here to film it for me


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