# Frustrated



## shellbeme (Dec 8, 2010)

I have been a dog food freak for years now. I used to swear by some brands and find others completely below my standards. I am now at three dogs. I have found that grain free typically means soft stool-not unformed, but soft. I have tried Acana (one of the very best brands according to all I read) and while I had one dog that had nice firm poo on it (though his hair thinned), the others were soft, and one was horribly loose. Yes I know all about the 'feed less' mentality and though I did and less yet again, poo was still in a puddle. 

I am sick of poo issues. I am sick of tummy problems and pumpkin and pro biotics and spending $$$$$$$$ on different foods that never fully deliver. I love Fromm but the poo is always soft. I would list all the brands and things we have been through for you but I'm just kind of over it and also don't feel like writing a book.

I'm thinking of trying science diet. Sure, they don't have as much meat-they have more carbs but I trust their sourcing and quality control. I trust their research and facilities-but I guess I'm looking to see what other dog foodies think.

Have I lost my mind? Honestly I feel like I've been taken for a ride by falling for the hype of all the new and 'better' brands and wondering if I should just go to something that has a history behind it like Hill's does.


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## Shamrockmommy (Sep 10, 2009)

Well what you've written is exactly why I landed with Science Diet!!

Jack has had a HORRIBLE belly. I had him on Fromm for years, and battled soft poo or poo-splosions in the crate overnight (joy). 
I tried him most recently on an organic canned food and that was a horrible horrible disaster, more of the same. 

He's been on Hills adult canned food in the beef, chicken and turkey flavors. Guess what happened? Tummy healed overnight. Great poops. Not smelly, happy, happy poodle! 

SO, I give up. I came on here actually to see what people are feeding now a days, but this just kind of seals the deal for me! If it ain't broke... 
Every time I try SD, the dogs do just fine. And then I chicken out and they have problems. 
Although Echo (pwd) is doing alright on her Fromm at the moment. Jack just can NOT handle it. 

Try it. See if anything happens. You can even take a "step down" from fromm slowly and try the Ideal Balance by Hills. My dogs love that stuff (dry or canned) too.


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## shellbeme (Dec 8, 2010)

Shamrockmommy said:


> Well what you've written is exactly why I landed with Science Diet!!
> 
> Jack has had a HORRIBLE belly. I had him on Fromm for years, and battled soft poo or poo-splosions in the crate overnight (joy).
> I tried him most recently on an organic canned food and that was a horrible horrible disaster, more of the same.
> ...


Thank you  

Currently we are on wellness, and using the basic line with the grain, I thought it would help and it is tons better than Acana but still our SPOOs poos are formed but not firm. It's embarrassing to pick up poos on walks because you end up having to rip out grass to get everything and half the time get something on your hand. So gross. 

I talked to my husband about it last night and he is for trying Science Diet so we are going to give it a go. I will be doing an order from Chewys soon. With the ideal balance, can you give me an idea of the size of the kibble? I am wondering if it would be ok for the spoo and our 5lb maltese. I know they have a small breed formula but I'd like to buy just one big bag if I could and feed everyone the same. I like to rotate protiens and the Ideal Balance gives me that.

We are also looking at the traditional science diet formulas too-so I am not 100% sure what I will end up ordering. I am just hesitant because we have had so much trouble with grain free formulas. If we go that route then I will probably try to add some canned in too so I can get different protiens in, I just don't like to stick to the same one every single day for the rest of their lives.


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## Lioness (Feb 25, 2016)

Dogs can have sensitive tummies very often. Soft stools and vomiting are things I've dealt with far too much in my career as a dog owner.I strongly recommend Eukanuba dog food - it's a really good formula for dogs with allergies or sensitive stomachs. Hope this helps!


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## shellbeme (Dec 8, 2010)

Thanks lioness, I have placed an order for science diet already but if we have any issues with it I will keep that one in mind


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## Shamrockmommy (Sep 10, 2009)

The kibble size on IB is a little bigger than a pencil eraser and flat. My 4 pound chihuahua could eat them, and my 50 pound PWD has no problem with them either.

I also came home with a bag of Beyond (purina) for Jack. Agrees with his belly and boy, oh boy, does he like it!


Let me know if your pup does any better. I tend to like hills/purina every time I try them. One time I blamed coat loss on IB, but I had also started using a furminator, which also tears coat up pretty bad.


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## shellbeme (Dec 8, 2010)

Thanks again!  I am excited to give it a try. If the regular gives us any problems we will try the ideal balance! I will let you guys know how it goes!

Just in case anyone is wondering, yes my dogs have been checked out by the vet and their poo has been checked for parasites-the pup a couple times even.


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## Shamrockmommy (Sep 10, 2009)

Sometimes Dr. Doolittle checks in on here with his knowledge, which I definitely have learned from and appreciate! 

As long as the dogs remain well, I'm perfectly happy feeding Science Diet and Purina Beyond


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## channeledbymodem (Dec 25, 2008)

We are getting the best poops we've ever had on Pro Plan Sport and feeding Science Diet weight management to our cats. I do wish that the SD products were priced as well as Purina's. But we've had no regrets leaving the supposedly better brands behind.


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## Lioness (Feb 25, 2016)

Glad i could offer assistance!  How has it been so far?


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## shellbeme (Dec 8, 2010)

We have the science diet but are still working on finishing up the last of the wellness. Once we are fully on science diet I will update


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## Celt (Dec 27, 2010)

I have 3 little dogs, Italian greyhounds, I feed them the SD Oral care to them. They adore it. It is a large, hard kibble, it does take some serious crunching but they like the taste so much that my boy who isn't happy with crunchy treats will happily eat it. This kibble gives my pups poops that are comparable to raw ones, occasionally the poops are even whitish and crumbly. If your dogs don't mind having to crunch, it might be one to try.


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## MarieLovesChis (Mar 25, 2014)

I'm reading this thread and just laughing. Not at you, but at myself because I'm such an idiot. I am experiencing similar problems with my dog. Onyx is having huge loose stools constantly and severe indigestion every now and then. I can tell when she is miserable.

I don't know if it's just because she's getting older (she will be 9 this year), but she just can't seem to handle the foods she always did good on anymore. Foods like Orijen and Ziwipeak. I tried out a small bag of Wellness Trufood, a food with quite a bit less protein and a little simpler ingredient list. Oh my goodness, the poop, so perfect LOL. And yet, here I am stressing because it isn't loaded with meat protein.

I can't get it out of my head that dogs NEED a bunch of meat protein.. and plant protein will kill her. It has been so far drilled into my brain. How pathetic. My dog is actually normal again and I'm stressing about the meat content not being good enough. Someone please virtually grab me by the shoulders, shake me around a little bit, and give me a good slap in the face. Maybe then I will come to my senses.


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## Dr Dolittle (Aug 2, 2013)

I was just lamenting with a veterinarian about how vets know so little about nutrition and as more and more are being purchased by corporate groups, they are simply told what to sell based on back room deals. it seven worse with the over the counter stuff! GI issues and early kidney issues are way up and you have to believe there's a link to everyone feeding these expensive foods that are actually pretty awful but have great marketing. It's encouraging to read some of you are discovering the truth!


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## dredges (May 18, 2012)

Have you tried a grain free with a lower protein percentage? I find my dogs have the soft poos if I go above 27% protein.
Why science diet? There are way better brands if you want a grain inclusive kibble. Just my opinion. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water


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## Shamrockmommy (Sep 10, 2009)

People want to call Science Diet and Purina the devil, and while some dogs do terrible on some of their foods, it's true, some dogs do perfectly fine. People want to blame health problems or their dog's death (some of them at the end of their life expectancy) on these foods. If I used that same way of thinking, I've had 5 dogs total. For the majority of dog ownership, I've fed Fromm. They DO have really nice skin/coat on it, but mushy digestion. It's a chore picking up after them. ugh. Anyway, of those 5 dogs, 3 have died from heart failure. Should I blame/assume the food caused that, as people do with their older dogs who die from something? I dunno, but beings as they were 3 different breeds, it seems either something is amiss OR that's just the way it is. Organ failure leads to death no matter what I do. 

I was one of those people calling Science Diet- Science Death! Telling everyone how awful it was, saying anything you can get at a grocery store is horrible.
And then I get a dog who absolutely cannot handle all the fancy foods! How do I explain away terrible belly pain, diarrhea (explosive- can't make it to the door in time) with these nicer foods? "Detox??" I don't think so. He's doing really well on both Science Diet and Purina Beyond! Since I took him off Fromm dry/canned, the explosive diarrhea, the arched back, tucked tail and shaking has completely STOPPED. I tried most all of Fromm's foods with him. And I let this go on for years. I tried raw, honest kitchen, Nature's Logic, Go!, etc. More of the same. 

I'm sure there will be a Science Diet or Purina formula that won't agree with him in some way, and I can adjust accordingly. 
But I won't apologize for feeding it, and I won't be swayed by how many "stars" the food gets, or what food I "should" try. 

I have a sensitive belly myself. If I had to spend as much time in belly misery as I let Jack suffer, I'd be a very unhappy person. It's no wonder I was fighting with his pickiness! And then people tell me to "tough love" him. He wouldn't eat for 3 days, then gorge on the food that STILL causes him belly trouble, then throw it up/diarrhea. 

Folks, I've tried all the "best" foods. They certainly are not best for him. And if I can give him quality of life with NO belly misery for how many years he has (no matter what you feed, vaccinate, exercise, pesticides/no pesticides, they still never live long enough!) then so much the better, right?

The dog always gets the last word on "best food."


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## shellbeme (Dec 8, 2010)

Yup, over the five years dealing with this we have tried grain free fancy brands and grain inclusive fancy brands. Why science diet? Because I believe in the research behind it, because you can tour their facilities any time and because any corn used in formulas is human quality. And because they are one of the most transparent companies I have come across!!

My little ones are doing very well on a skin and sensitive tummy formula and my puppy finally has firm poo on the puppy formula.

So far the results are fantastic. I hope they continue. The only thing my husband and I are watching for now is to see if Rocky starts chewing his feet, he always used to do this on the grain inclusive fancy brands, if he does then we will probably try ideal balance for him and Tucker (my other little dog).


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## dredges (May 18, 2012)

Human grade corn in America means gmo corn.

Your comparisons are like saying my diet of grass fed bison, truffles and caviar was too rich so now I only eat McDonalds.

You forgot about hundreds of foods midway between "Orijen and Science Diet".

Companies like Victor, even taste of the wild or costco brand is superior to science diet.

Just saying


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## shellbeme (Dec 8, 2010)

dredges said:


> Human grade corn in America means gmo corn.
> 
> Your comparisons are like saying my diet of grass fed bison, truffles and caviar was too rich so now I only eat McDonalds.
> 
> ...


I guess you didn't read the whole thread or the part about how this has been going on for over 5 years now and that we have tried just about every brand out there. It's alright, on longer threads, I tend to skip posts too. I'll stick with my GMO corn thanks  I am not bothered by this. 

I'm glad that the subject of nutrition means so much to you that you feel the need to take a stand on this and I am glad that you care about what is best for my kids. I know that sounds sarcastic but I am sincere, because I know you are coming from a good place. If you had been through everything we have been through and all the struggles we have had with dog food, you might find yourself seeing things differently. I respect your point of view but for my pooches I will have to disagree.

I feel good about my decision and I am not afraid to say what brand I am feeding. I see the difference in my dogs and that is what a lot of us need to do-starting trusting in what we are seeing, not what some fancy ingredient panel says or some fancy add and not what a bunch of people on a forum-who have no real experience with dog nutrition has to say about it. (That was not directed at you, I have no idea what your experience is, I'm just speaking in generalities. )


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## Penny & Maggie's Mom (May 19, 2009)

dredges said:


> Human grade corn in America means gmo corn.
> 
> Your comparisons are like saying my diet of grass fed bison, truffles and caviar was too rich so now I only eat McDonalds.
> 
> ...


Personally I would not consider any food manufactured by Diamond which both Taste of the Wild and CostCo brands are. Diamond's recall history is horrific.


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## Dr Dolittle (Aug 2, 2013)

Dredges, Since you mentioned a few diets by name, let me just ask you how Taste of the Wild is better than Science Diet? Is it because of their peer reviewed research that has been published in veterinary journals? Is it the number of chemist and nutritionists who work on the foods? Is it because their nutrient profiles are based on optimal levels to help reduce risk of disease, such as kidney disease and urinary stones? Is it because they have an excellent antioxidant package, including Vit E, C and others? Yes, I am being somewhat unfair because I am pretty certain you have no idea, because most folks who love their pets like family, base their opinions on what pet food marketers have convinced them is important. Real meat as the first ingredient, no grain, happy chicken, tons of protein the dog can't use, on and on. The root word for nutrition is......"nutrients"! Yet its the one thing these pet food marketers won't talk about. Could be because their nutrient levels are awful, unbalanced and excessive, or it could be they simply have no idea about nutrition anyway! Ironically, Blue Buffalo finally got a nutritionist, their first one! Stole him from Hills! Can't disagree on the GMO corn! I don't like it but can't do anything about it. The excesses of real nutrients is a much larger threat to my dogs because they are proven. BTW, many of the ingredients from McDonalds in the US are outlawed in Europe! I have gone to Origen's website. It is very obvious they do not have a nutritionist on their payroll. There is a world of difference between Science Diet and origen! We can agree on that!


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## MarieLovesChis (Mar 25, 2014)

Well, I've been sticking with the Wellness Trufood. Onyx is doing much better since stopping the Orijen and Acana cold turkey. I know Wellness is still considered one of those overpriced "fancy" brands, just like Orijen, NV, Evo, etc. But I really like the guaranteed analysis of this food in comparison to those. Plus of course the results. The ash ranges from 4-7% depending on the formula, which is a lot better than the average 10% of some of those other brands. I think the lower protein and fat (in comparison to the Orijen she was on) is part of the reason she's doing better on the Trufood.

I have always added canned food to Onyx's meals, simply because she loves it and I like the added moisture. I actually picked up some Purina Beyond cans today, along with her usual Tripett. So I'll see how that goes with her. The ingredients look pretty similar to some other brands I've paid $4 - $5 per can for! Never thought the day would come that I would buy another Purina dog food :suspicious:


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## shellbeme (Dec 8, 2010)

MarieLovesChis said:


> Well, I've been sticking with the Wellness Trufood. Onyx is doing much better since stopping the Orijen and Acana cold turkey. I know Wellness is still considered one of those overpriced "fancy" brands, just like Orijen, NV, Evo, etc. But I really like the guaranteed analysis of this food in comparison to those. Plus of course the results. The ash ranges from 4-7% depending on the formula, which is a lot better than the average 10% of some of those other brands. I think the lower protein and fat (in comparison to the Orijen she was on) is part of the reason she's doing better on the Trufood.
> 
> I have always added canned food to Onyx's meals, simply because she loves it and I like the added moisture. I actually picked up some Purina Beyond cans today, along with her usual Tripett. So I'll see how that goes with her. The ingredients look pretty similar to some other brands I've paid $4 - $5 per can for! Never thought the day would come that I would buy another Purina dog food :suspicious:


You just keep doing what you find works best for you! I am glad you found something that is working out


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## EmmaRoo (Apr 3, 2016)

While you're trying things out... Go to the VeRUS Pet Foods website and fill out their contact form. A human will write you back, ask you some things about your pup then send you samples to try. They **might**even give you some tips or suggestions to help over all. Their dog food is really great - my dogs have been 100% better eating VeRUS.
My little dog (the mutt) has digestive issues and itchy issues. If she eats food that is too greasy, she gets sick. VeRUS's food isn't at all greasy (you can tell when you pick it up in your hand, it doesn't leave crumbs & gunk) and it doesn't have disgusting odors when you open the bag.
Again, if you're trying things out, you might aw well try this, too. And it won't cost you anything to get the samples!


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## LProf (Nov 12, 2013)

Well, here is my experience. We have three dogs, a 9 year old male Pug, a new rescue 13 year old male Pug, and a 8 year old Yorkie/ Poodle mix. My 9 year old Pug has a sensitive stomach and an intolerance to Flaxseed, the Yorkie/Poodle can eat anything with no stomach issues.

When we rescued the 13 year old Pug he was on Taste of the Wild kibble and a topper of their canned food. 

I, too, have been through many of the so called premium foods. When I put my Pug and Yorkie/Poodle on Beyond, their poops were good, but the 9 year old Pug started to loose a lot of hair.

I have now gone back to the new formulas of Acana singles, rotating between the Lamb and Mackerel formulas. They like it a lot, their coats are good, their poops firm, but the 9 year old Pug is pooping three or four times a day. 

I assume from all of the peas, etc. in the food. Yes, they are engaging in ingredient splitting, but it is a company I trust in terms of quality of the ingredients, nothing from China, and no by-products. 

My concern, however, is the amount of pooping by my 9 year old Pug. Should I be concerned about that, notwithstanding that the poops are normal?

And, by the way, I would feed Science Diet, except all of their food contains flaxseed.


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## LProf (Nov 12, 2013)

Scared said:


> You need a life.


Not helpful or appropriate to be rude.


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

Scared said:


> You need a life.


I sent you a private message.


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## EmmaRoo (Apr 3, 2016)

Hi LProf,
Ignore the rude person. As good pet parents we have to learn what we can from our dogs whenever we can.
My inexpert opinion would be that if all dogs are good on the Science Diet -with the exception of the increased poop on the one - stick with it. It might simply be due to trying the different foods and it might not continue (i.e. poop amounts going back to normal). Just keep monitoring the other signs of issues and carry on!


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## LProf (Nov 12, 2013)

naturalfeddogs said:


> I sent you a private message.


It did not come in. Please try again.


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## LProf (Nov 12, 2013)

Thanks, but not on Science diet. One of my Pugs in intolerant to Flaxseed, which is in all of the SD formulas.


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

LProf said:


> It did not come in. Please try again.


It was to scared. Not you.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Lots of poop would tell me my dog isn't utilizing the food he's eating.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Oh, and just on the "get a life" comment - I examine poops carefully. Poops tell me in many ways how healthy my dog is. And since my dogs ARE my life in many ways, being attentive to poops is what good dog owners do. IMO.


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## LProf (Nov 12, 2013)

OK, Sorry about that.


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## LProf (Nov 12, 2013)

xellil said:


> Lots of poop would tell me my dog isn't utilizing the food he's eating.


Thank you. That is what I thought.


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