# Course ground meat - freezer life?



## chichi_mom (Aug 8, 2012)

Hi All! I've been browsing around the threads and haven't found an answer to my question. How long is whole animal, course ground meat good for in the freezer?? I've finally obtained a 10 cu ft chest freezer FOR FREE (yay ) and am going to place my next order with mypetcarnivore and would like to order up to a year's worth of food to store. I know that ground meat can yield more bacteria, so was just wondering if it is safe to do so. I'm assuming yes, but I'm always on the more cautious side. I've been storing his food by day, in plastic baggies in the freezer, and just thawing out in the fridge the night before. I've noticed some freezer burn (which I know is ok). I know I"ve read others that give meat thats up to 5+ years old...was wondering if the same holds true for course ground meat. I hope so!


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

A year should be fine if it is packaged well and air doesn't get to it. Ground meats of any kind should be fed and kept to a minimum because of the bacteria issue, whole is much better than ground. Saying that I've stored and fed tripe/organ mix that has been in my freezer for at least two years.


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## chichi_mom (Aug 8, 2012)

Thank you  I understand whole is *ideal*, but I plan on keeping him on ground. Maybe one day I will switch to whole.


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## CavePaws (Jan 25, 2011)

Just wondering, why do you think he needs to be eating ground instead of whole?


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## chichi_mom (Aug 8, 2012)

CavePaws said:


> Just wondering, why do you think he needs to be eating ground instead of whole?


I've had him on whole before -- chicken. He would literally choke down the bones. Bite a pretty large piece of bone off, and then just swallow. I've tried hammering down the bones, and he's fine with that and chomps them once or twice before swallowing. But then when I go back to the whole bone, he'll go back to biting a large piece off and just swallowing...gagging and choking. I just don't want to risk it--personal preference. I am also giving him "Organic Pet Puperfoods IMMUNITY" just as an added extra caution since he is getting ground meat. Although, I don't know if its really needed...can't hurt though.

To somewhat compinsate for him not getting the added dental benefits, I am giving him bully sticks. He can't just chomp a huge piece of those off and swallow :tongue: So those work best for his dental health.


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

I've had more dogs choke on ground and boneless than anything else. 

Hope it works out for you!


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## chichi_mom (Aug 8, 2012)

One other thing I wanted to add...since starting him on raw, he does not drink any water. I understand that water intake will decrease with a raw diet because of the moisture content. But Rio doesn't drink any water. I noticed him not drinking any water for a while now, and have been adding in water to his raw food. Is it normal for a dog to not drink any water while on a raw diet???


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## CavePaws (Jan 25, 2011)

How big is he?


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## chichi_mom (Aug 8, 2012)

CavePaws said:


> How big is he?


He is approx 8 lbs. Normal, healthy weight for his body type.


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## CavePaws (Jan 25, 2011)

Give him a turkey neck,no way he can swallow that hole. Pieces way bigger than his head should be given. Heck, dicing his food is way more preferable than grinding. You really are losing some nutrients from processing it like that. So imo yes you do need to supplement.

I think you're too scared about it...he's tiny, there are so many ways to get around gulping.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

chichi_mom said:


> One other thing I wanted to add...since starting him on raw, he does not drink any water. I understand that water intake will decrease with a raw diet because of the moisture content. But Rio doesn't drink any water. I noticed him not drinking any water for a while now, and have been adding in water to his raw food. Is it normal for a dog to not drink any water while on a raw diet???


Decreased drinking is normal with raw fed dogs because they obtain 70% of their daily moisture from their food. It never hurts to add water to their food to increase moisture content though, so continue with what you're doing. 

As far as feeding whole bones goes, I can relate to being scared about it. I remember when my 9 week old puppy chomped her first chicken wing bone ONCE before swallowing. I about had a heart attack. But have learned since that that is how most dogs eat when raw fed. They basically have to just make it fit down the hatch because digestion starts in the stomach, not in the mouth like us. They do not have amalayse in their saliva so there's really no need for them to really "chew" their food. Chomp, Chomp, Swallow is really all that is necessary for them. I know its scary and a foreign concept to us but it is natural to them. Just make sure you feed something that HAS to be chomped once or twice before swallowing. The dental benefit alone is worth it. Dental procedures are expensive as well as risky as with any other anesthetic procedure. But if you can prevent them needing a dental cleaning with anesthesia? Totally worth it especially for a Chi (I am a vet tech and do dentals every day on small breed dogs so I see how poor dental hygiene plagues these dogs). I'm trying not to preach, but just to help you see that what scares us most....is normal for them.


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## chichi_mom (Aug 8, 2012)

Maybe one day I will get over it...I just can't right now after that time he was barely breathing due to choking. Since I know a lot are somewhat opposed to ground...that said, is a high quality kibble better then feeding ground raw??? I would guess not, but I don't know.


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

chichi_mom said:


> Maybe one day I will get over it...I just can't right now after that time he was barely breathing due to choking. Since I know a lot are somewhat opposed to ground...that said, is a high quality kibble better then feeding ground raw??? I would guess not, but I don't know.


Absolutely better than kibble


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## chichi_mom (Aug 8, 2012)

WhiteLeo-- Thank you. I guess i'm sort of second guessing the whole ground meat thing since it seems a lot of people don't prefer to feed that way. Also, because the greater nutrient deficiency, I'm thinking I should definately supplement with a multivitamin..not sure about that though, I don't really know. I would be worried about the fat soluable vitamins building up.


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## bett (Mar 15, 2012)

vacuum packed-it can stay a very long time.


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## chichi_mom (Aug 8, 2012)

Bett-- I was acutally thinking about vacuum packing it  

A thought came to me....I was thinking about mixing his raw food with Sojos GrainFree Dog Mix (the mix where you add the meat in). Thoughts/opinions on this? I guess again it would be personal preference, but the ingrediants seem really good: sweet potato, carrots, broccoli, celery, apples, whole egg, tricalcium phosphate, flax meal, parsley leaf, carob powder, dried kelp, dried alfalfa, ginger root, garlic, vitamin D3

This would make the raw last a lot longer, and bring down cost. (Not that cost is all i'm thinking about, but it would be nice). He just seemed to thrive off a high quality kibble..but then again it was probably all the starch and carbs in his kibble that was fueling that. I was thinking Sojos would be perfect for him. He still has lots of energy when I play with him, its just the in between times where he'll lay down and rest vs running around like he did while on kibble. Could still be going thru detox since he is only almost 4 months into raw.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

I would not mix the ground with that premade stuff. That's just asking for trouble. Its essentially like mixing raw with kibble since a lot of the ingredients are plant based and harder for dogs to digest. That isn't to say he could do fine on it, but it would be him as well as you having to deal with the digestive upset and potential set back. If you think he might do alright with it, add it in slowly and go from there. If you're worried about ground meats causing problems, I'd highly suggest adding in whole chunks of meat for him to have that are boneless. BUT make absolutely sure that they're either small enough for him to swallow whole without issue or big enough he has to chew them up first because boneless meats are just as able to cause choking. 

I don't think that feeding ground will absolutely cause some kind of issue other than dental disease....but I've seen it cause problems before in SOME dogs. Usually skin and coat issues like thin, brittle fur/hair and dogs having a hard time keeping weight on. But some of these cases were from feeding premade grounds like Darwin's and Nature's Variety. It sounds like you're having whole animals ground? If so...it would be awesome for you to see it actually happening so you're guaranteed knowing what you're feeding your pup. Sometimes grounds (espeically mixes) are very vague about what they actually have in them, so I suggest using caution when purchasing them. 

That said, I am speculating that he lays down and rests between play sessions because he can now. Before he could have been unnaturally amped up on starches and sugar so that he's in hyperactive mode most of the time. I've seen this many times with wild and crazy dogs. Raw just brings their energy level down because they're not hyped up on sugars.


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## shellbell (Sep 24, 2011)

Don’t feel bad about feeding ground, it is much much better than kibble. And I would definitely trust the coarse ground raw that My Pet Carnivore sells, I order from them monthly and have ordered coarse ground items from them before. I have no doubt that it is exactly what they say it is. 

I would encourage trying to feed chewable bones a couple times a week for the dental benefits, but if ground is what you are comfortable with for now, your dog is still much better off to eat ground raw then to eat kibble.


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## chichi_mom (Aug 8, 2012)

Thank you DaneMama & Shellbell  @ DaneMama - Yes, I am feeding the whole animal ground. Possibly at somepoint in time, I hope to obtain whole chunks of meat (not ground), organ, and minced bone for him to do it myself, rather then order the grounded mixes. Problem with that is....where do I get whole chunks of VARIETIES of meats?! I know there is the butcher shop, but i'm not even sure if the one near me would have a huge variety. Where do you guys obtain your meats from?? I'm weary of using MOST grocery store meat. And they grocery stores over here only have so much variety  I would probably order the organs from mypetcarnivore, and then the minced bone as well. I really do not want to get WHOLE animals, as they are extremely tough to cut up and dissect..and it really kinda grosses me out. 

I have noticed, he has been loosing some weight since I started raw. But from what I've read, its trial and error in the beginning. I have been feeding 2.5% of his weight per day. I think I'm going to increase to 3% and see how that works. His ribs do not show when he is standing, but when he is laying down on his side, they do. Then again, he does not have any hair on his chest/abdomen area so that probably contributes. He is just starting to get a bit too thin...you can see his little butt bones a bit too.


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## chichi_mom (Aug 8, 2012)

shellbell said:


> Don’t feel bad about feeding ground, it is much much better than kibble. And I would definitely trust the coarse ground raw that My Pet Carnivore sells, I order from them monthly and have ordered coarse ground items from them before. I have no doubt that it is exactly what they say it is.
> 
> I would encourage trying to feed chewable bones a couple times a week for the dental benefits, but if ground is what you are comfortable with for now, your dog is still much better off to eat ground raw then to eat kibble.


Would ground meat be ok to keep him on for life if that's what I deceide? Some people just make it sound so bad! I have started giving him bully sticks for his teeth...he chews on them nicely -- because he can't just break em apart


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## shellbell (Sep 24, 2011)

chichi_mom said:


> Would ground meat be ok to keep him on for life if that's what I deceide? Some people just make it sound so bad! I have started giving him bully sticks for his teeth...he chews on them nicely -- because he can't just break em apart


I am no expert and have only been feeding raw for a year now, but I don’t think you would do him any harm to feed something like the coarse ground raw from My Pet Carnivore the rest of his life. It is true that ground is not the preferred method, and I feed very little ground myself, but I don’t see anything inherently wrong with it. As long as you know your source. I understand about the bacteria concerns and all, but I trust the product that MPC sells. You might just have to be more careful as far as not repeatedly thawing and refreezing like I know a lot of us like to do. Just the handling of it, you might not be able to be as carefree about it as some of us who like to thaw and refreeze, and aren’t afraid to feed meat that has sat out or been in the fridge for a long time. 

I do think that dogs thrive on the act of chewing whole cuts of meat and bone, not just for the dental benefit but for the mental benefit as well. So while I think it is preferred to work in things that allow him to do that, I don’t think you are doing any harm to feed ground. Look at the kibble that you could be feeding, you could definitely do worse.


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## chichi_mom (Aug 8, 2012)

Thanks shellbell, thats pretty much what I figured. I am very careful when defrosting/refreezing the mix. I only partially defrost the entire container, bag up his meals per day, and then refreeze. I then defrost only the day prior he get his meals. 

Another question...his poops. They are usually multicolored...almost like a marble colored.. lol. They are mostly a greenish color? Which is werid, because he doesn't eat anything that is green. Is this normal? For instance, in one sitting, one of his poops was an off white/light greenish (probably bone), and the rest of his poops where a dark-medium, and brightish green color. I did take a picture (lol) but it won't let me upload it for the life of me. He's never had loose poops since switching, all have been formed.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Rainbow poos are normal LOL

We source most of our meat locally from farmers and do processing ourselves. Since you have one little dog, this might be an issue as we go through hundreds of pounds of meat per month. I think going to through your local butchers you'll be able to find enough variety of meat. Do a search on craigslist to find local farmers who also butcher. 

You can also look into raw feeding co ops in your area. There's a list in the "stickies" in the raw forum.


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## chichi_mom (Aug 8, 2012)

Good to hear rainbow poos are normal! I was thinking something was wrong..his poos are never a dark solid brown like I would have expected. I wonder what causes the rainbow poos?! :suspicious:

Thanks for the info on the raw feeding co ops.. I will definately check it out!


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

You could always feed him partially frozen ground. That would help with the lack of bone in items and gulping.


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