# Pits



## kevin bradley (Aug 9, 2009)

ok, so who has experience with Pits/Bully breeds(no, I don't love the term, but it seems to be what people use)? 

Friend just got a Pit...about 8 months old. He's a very sweet guy...no sign of any exposure to negative stuff. 

I'm not close minded enough to think that Pits can't be excellent, excellent Dogs. I know they can. BUT, I'm also not naive enough to understand that there are certain things to be careful of with Pits. 

The one that really sticks out to me is that I was reading one of the "Bully Breed" magazines the other day and they mentioned that you have to be REALLY careful leaving Pits alone with other Dogs because they may tear each other apart fighting. This surprised me...I'll try to find the name of the magazine. I think it was "Training Bully Breeds" or something close. 

I mean, REALLY? Do people with Pits really have to be worried every time they leave their Dogs alone when they are gone from home? I'm not sure I'd want to live like that. I'd be worried all the time.


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

I have never owned a pit bull, so I can not speak from that perspective. BUT, what I do own is a doggy daycare facility; more particularly, I own the only doggy daycare in Utah Valley that has not banned Pit Bulls, Cane Corsos, and Staffies. 
In the last three years, three dogs have left our facility and been taken to the vet due to aggressive attacks. It's daycare, things like that do happen sometimes, and once a year is a pretty decent track record. Only one of these was actually anything I would have taken my dog to the vet for, the other two were just puncture wounds, and in that case, we inform the owners, let them make the call on if we take them or not. 
The only serious one... was a pit. A pit on a Bichon, to be exact. I love "bully breeds" and I think that IN THE RIGHT HANDS they have the potential to be wonderful, wonderful dogs. (the other TWO were goldens, by the way...) I enjoy having them in daycare, and really we have no MORE issues with pits than other breeds, it's just the issues we DO have tend to be more serious, if that makes any sense. 

So, rather than ban them, we just have certain protocal in regards to them in daycare:
They are not in a yard with small dogs. 
Zero tolerence for any misbehavior. If they snap just a little, or start causing little problems, we can no longer accept them. (for the most part, we accept that some dogs just have off days, and if a generally good dog has an off day, we inform the owner, but they're not "kicked out" ... with pits, we simply can not chance it after that attack. It's more or less a liability thing.)
Their "interview" or temperament screening is done by appointment only, by either myself or the other owner of the facility. Others we take on a walk in basis, but not pits. 

All of that being said, some of our BEST dogs that come are pits. In fact, Annie's "boyfriend" is a Cane Corso. He's wonderful. I don't *like* that we discriminate against them to an extent, but at the same time, that Bichon was the only dog to ever leave here in critical condition, and THAT sparked some precautions.


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## harrkim120 (Feb 2, 2010)

Totally not true. I've known tons of people that leave their pits alone with other dogs and they are fine. Just like any dog, if it has issues with dog aggression there could be problems, but pits are no more likely to get into a fight with another dog when left alone than any other breed.

I believe that the issue lies more with the fact that they have crazy powerful jaws and are much more likely to inflict serious damage if in a fight.


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

harrkim120 said:


> pits are no more likely to get into a fight with another dog when left alone than any other breed.


I feel the need to point out that this statement depends A LOT on the breeding and lines of the Pit. Good ones, not bred from fighting lines, though, I believe it holds true, based on my experiences with them in a VERY social environment. :biggrin:

Unfortunately, though, I do believe that some just "have it in them" because of their breeding...


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## Mitchell (Aug 16, 2010)

id have to say not true. every dog no matter the breed has the abilty to be aggresive. my brother has owned a pit for about 2 years. when other dogs try to fight not play but fight, she runs away either to my brother or me. i realise this may cause a debait but i feel its how u raise it. if any dog can be aggresive than no reason any dog cant be friendly. its how you teach it and train her. my brothers pit named snickers (shes brindle lol cute name) tested her boundries at the beginning but now that she knows she is at the bottom best dog i have ever known... as far as fighting its teying to be leader of the pack. as rude as it sounds its very easy to make dogs believe that one is the alpha. make sure u feed the alpha 1st pet him 1st even feed him first. gtive hikm treats or a chew toy 1st as well. when doing this the aggresive actions can vanish over night some times as well as spraying. its all about the pack and reinforceing your the leader and one inperticuloar dog is next in line


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## harrkim120 (Feb 2, 2010)

Oooooo...another good point is if the dog is fixed or not. A male that is not neutered is going to be much more likely to have issues than a neutered one.


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## kevin bradley (Aug 9, 2009)

thanks guys. 

yeah, he's fixed. 


Honestly, I felt like a jerk even posting this question. I know PITS can be some of the best Dogs. But this magazine got me worried and I just had to go to my friends out here. 

Linsey, I can certainly see that fights w/ Pits involved WOULD be more problematic. They are crazy strong Dogs and I suppose they could inflict more damage than many breeds. 

I always wonder when people say "fighting has been bred into them".... I'm not an evolutionary expert but wouldn't something like this take thousands of years to really take hold of an entire breed?


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

kevin bradley said:


> Linsey, I can certainly see that fights w/ Pits involved WOULD be more problematic. They are crazy strong Dogs and I suppose they could inflict more damage than many breeds.


In this kind of setting, we have to be so careful, really, and I suppose it's not even that great of an example on what they'd be like at HOME... 
But I do want to clarify that we have no MORE problems with Pits than any other breed. Not even by a long shot. It's just that the few we do have seem to be WORSE than other breeds. I love pits, I will probably own one someday, and have NO intention of banning them from my daycare like most day cares have already done. This HAS lost me customers in the past, but I feel good about our decision. 



kevin bradley said:


> I always wonder when people say "fighting has been bred into them".... I'm not an evolutionary expert but wouldn't something like this take thousands of years to really take hold of an entire breed?


Yes and no. Just like some dogs are bred specifically for work, some lines of pits have been bred specifically to fight, and those lines DO go way way back. I think that when people get Pits for GOOD, REPUTABLE breeders with SOLID backgrounds, there is close to NOTHING to worry about. Dog fighting unfortunately is alive and well, and it's the best killers who get bred. Some of THESE pups do make their way into the hands of the general public...


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## kevin bradley (Aug 9, 2009)

CorgiPaws said:


> In this kind of setting, we have to be so careful, really, and I suppose it's not even that great of an example on what they'd be like at HOME...
> But I do want to clarify that we have no MORE problems with Pits than any other breed. Not even by a long shot. It's just that the few we do have seem to be WORSE than other breeds. I love pits, I will probably own one someday, and have NO intention of banning them from my daycare like most day cares have already done. This HAS lost me customers in the past, but I feel good about our decision.
> 
> 
> Yes and no. Just like some dogs are bred specifically for work, some lines of pits have been bred specifically to fight, and those lines DO go way way back. I think that when people get Pits for GOOD, REPUTABLE breeders with SOLID backgrounds, there is close to NOTHING to worry about. Dog fighting unfortunately is alive and well, and it's the best killers who get bred. Some of THESE pups do make their way into the hands of the general public...



I hate it Linsey. With every Fiber in my body, I hate it. I've had evil thoughts of what I'd like to do to Dog fighting rings. Even reading what you wrote, and I know its true...it just brings my blood pressure up...I better stop there. I just cannot imagine a human being doing this stuff to an animal. I hope they rot in hell.


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

I have three Bull Terriers who were originally bred as dog fighters back in the 1800's, I do not seperate them when I leave the house although I have had issue with my 2 females from time to time but that has always happened around feeding time. 

They have terribly strong jaws and an "unwillingness to let go" when they have made up their mind not to. Temperment all depends on when they were socialized, if it was done properly and as long as there wasn't any negative training methods involved. Bull breeds can be some of the greatest companion animals around, unfortunately it is the humans who usually screw it up for them.


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## kevin bradley (Aug 9, 2009)

white,

yeah, as I understand it, when a Pit really locks down on something, you almost have to put a stick through their back mouth openind and pry them off. 

I have to say...when I've played around w/ Pits, they have ALWAYS been very gentle. Some will play bite just like any dog and they keep it very very gentle. Almost like they know to keep things gentle. Suppose all Dogs do this but it seemed especially evident with the Pits I've been around. Kind of a "I know I could lock down on you and win this game right now but I'd never do that to you because I love you."


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## Mitchell (Aug 16, 2010)

as far as evolution im a creationist. so i beleive every thing was made. and if they where made or where bred from other dogs there purpose was not to fight thats just done buy man because there to scared to step in to ufc lol. dog fighting is very wrong and i hate every aspect dogs should only wrestle and always be watched when doing so. sorry if i start the creation vs evolution debate lol


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## luvMyBRT (Mar 8, 2010)

Back before I got married I worked at a vet clinic for 6 years. We also boarded dogs there. In my several years of working there, we boarded all different breeds of dogs. Thinking back I can't remember every having a problem with any of the pit bulls, rottweilers, german shepherds, etc. I did get bit two different times. Once by a yellow lab and once by a cocker spaniel. The most dog aggressive dog that we boarded was a border collie mix....we had to walk her by herself.

This all goes to show that it just depends on the individual dog and the owner most of all. When I had my rottie I knew that I owned a very strong and powerful breed that scared a lot of people. This only made me work harder with him so I could show and teach people that dogs with certain stigmas (pits, rotts, etc) can be excellent and loving pets.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

hell, i had a shih tzu and all nineteen pounds of him beat the crap out of his sisters...blood and everything....

i really do believe what i've heard. treat a dog well because they never forget.

while the powerful breeds have some genetics to plan for, i believe it is just that...plan for that particular breed, just as one would not get a hunting dog for an apartment....

train dogs of all breeds to have manners in a way that is both respectful and en pointe, and i think the dog will be fine.

hit that dog or mistreat that dog and that dog will remember...and one day, return the favour.

bully breed or not.


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## kevin bradley (Aug 9, 2009)

thanks everyone for your input on this subject.


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## rjordan392 (Feb 16, 2010)

I would settle on another breed.
Pit bulls can be just like any other dog when inside the house. Playful with your children.
But its a differant story when away from the house whether they are on a leash or not; they are overly aggressive and will attack other dogs and humans. 
Now one may ask why does this happen? The most likely cause is improper training or no training to accept other dogs in the neighborhood. A lot of people just want a pet but are ignorant of the need for training for some breeds.
In my town, 8 out 10 attacks on children and dogs are from pit bulls.
If you can guarantee that a pit bull will be kept away from strangers, then go for it. Just be aware of any consequences if its not.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

rjordan392 said:


> I would settle on another breed.
> Pit bulls can be just like any other dog when inside the house. Playful with your children.
> But its a differant story when away from the house whether they are on a leash or not; they are overly aggressive and will attack other dogs and humans.
> Now one may ask why does this happen? The most likely cause is improper training or no training to accept other dogs in the neighborhood. A lot of people just want a pet but are ignorant of the need for training for some breeds.
> ...


due respect, but a 100% of the time, blame the owners for the attacks.

and, THAT'S the true shame because they truly are wonderful dogs...all the bully breeds are.

here's the thing....there's a yorkie in my neighbourhood...she is the scourge of the block....she will tear your ankles to bit...shred them actually...and has...they were bred to rid towns of rats and other rodents...

i blame the owners. they should have socialised this dog from day one. the same goes for pit bulls and other bully breeds and power breeds...socialise them early.....and they will not attack anyone. and never hit...

my pug is so sensitive that if i raise my voice, he cowers....that's how abused he was....so we try very hard not to raise our voices..which we shouldn't do anyway.

it really makes me angry that owners give their dogs a bad rap....and the dogs die.....because of it...should be the other way around.


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## kevin bradley (Aug 9, 2009)

rjordan392 said:


> I would settle on another breed.
> Pit bulls can be just like any other dog when inside the house. Playful with your children.
> But its a differant story when away from the house whether they are on a leash or not; they are overly aggressive and will attack other dogs and humans.
> Now one may ask why does this happen? The most likely cause is improper training or no training to accept other dogs in the neighborhood. A lot of people just want a pet but are ignorant of the need for training for some breeds.
> ...




RJ, with all due respect, you are from Philly. 

I'm pretty close to Detroit. 

I'm not going to get into a Societal discussion....but let's be frank... Philadelphia and Detroit face some real issues with the way Pit Bulls are raised, bred, treated, etc....

It doesn't surprise me that many attacks ARE from Pits in these cities. 

A. a large number of the Dogs in inner cities ARE Pit Bulls.
b. With dog fighting such a big issue in the inner cities, it stands to reason that you have a lot of Pits who have been treated horribly.


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

I'd also like to know how many of those were actually confirmed "Pitbull " attacks? the media assumes that when anyone is attacked it is a pitbull, when in reality the dog wasn't even closely related to a pitbull but it is never recanted in the newspaper, this is what has given the "pitbull" and bully breeds a bad name, the media has not been held responsible for their reporting.


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