# I think I have to throw in the towel



## LucyinSweden (Feb 20, 2012)

Lucy has been on raw for 2 months now, and the past month has been... traumatic to say the least. She has been consistently constipated to the point that I've had to give her enemas. I've given her no bones for the past weeks, and only meat. Watching her strain and strain to try and poop and to constantly try but fail is more than I can handle.  I'm really sad because I feel like she had been much happier and eating well, but she has begun to stop eating and stop eating as much. I've gone back to chicken only, with no bones, she's getting 10ml of salmon oil 2x's a day with her food and it's not done anything. I just think her system can't handle the raw only diet. 

Does anyone have recommendations for the best type of dog food I can buy? I can try to find it here or online in the UK. 

Totally disappointed but I need to do what is best for Lucy, even if it isn't the raw.


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## lauren43 (Feb 6, 2011)

I know Xellil on here has a little Doxie with issues similar to what your describing (hopefully she'll chime in). Have you intro-ed organs yet? Organs generally soften poo, that could be your answer.


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## LucyinSweden (Feb 20, 2012)

I've been trying with liver, but she won't have anything to do with it. Tried seared, covered in salmon oil, mixed with chicken... she won't do it. Even frozen. She's back to losing weight again and is refusing to eat now. I don't even blame her. 

Her poop is basically black and rock hard when she does manage to get it out.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

I feel your pain!! And I am intimately acquainted with the black pebbles you speak of and the standing there for 1,2, 5 minutes while she strains and strains and one little ball comes out. 

Did she have trouble with constipation before she started raw food? 

I control it with Snorkels mostly using organs. She gets about 30% organs and really rich meats, like beef and pork heart. I never feed her chicken, except hearts, because it's just not rich enough to make her poo good. What I feed her would have most dogs exploding like a volcano and we still struggle with the poo. 

She eats most of her bones ground up and I give her eggshells for the rest of her calcium as it's not nearly as constipating. I let her eat a "real" bone about once a week, like a chicken head.

but I have one thing going for me - Snorkels eats anything. also, I have access to several different kinds of organs. She gets pancreas, spleen, kidney, etc.

But, she did horribly on dry food also. I was giving her so much stuff for the constipation the stuff I was giving her was making her sick. Going on raw food has actually been a huge improvement, even though it's still a struggle.

Of course you have to do what you think is best for Lucy. So I'm not going to say you should stay on raw. But should you decide to, or should you decide to try again later, I think there are ways to make her much less constipated.


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## ciaBrysh (Dec 16, 2011)

Have you taken her to the vet?


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

ciaBrysh said:


> Have you taken her to the vet?


I think there is one vet in Sweden. I'm exaggerating, but I don't think by much. Maybe two vets.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Oh, and one more thing - there are several people here who force feed their dogs organs because they absolutely refuse to eat them and they must have them.

You could try forcing Lucy to eat liver. She won't like it but it won't hurt her, and it will probably get her bowels moving.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

And one MORE thing, speaking of vets - were the enemas at the instructions of a vet? I know when Snorkels was constantly at the vet for side effects of constipation, they would try everything else before giving her an enema - mostly IV liquids, stool softeners, etc. I wonder if perhaps the enema itself could cause more problems.


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

That same thing you are describing happened with one of ours last year. I gave her a large amount of organs, and some fish oil capsules. That had everything running along just fine shortly! Organs have a sort of have a laxative effect, as does oil.

As far as not touching organs, mine like beef liver most of the time, but hate chicken liver. So, I just open their mouth and put the liver at the back of the tounge, almost like giving a pill. Then I hold their head up until they swallow. Organs are a must, and I don't like the idea of any sort of cooking so I do it that way. After a while, they decided they liked the beef liver and started eating that on their own. But they still hate chicken liver.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

If you have olive oil, you can also give her a teaspoon full of that. But also try what naturalfeddogs says - the stuff I used to try on Snorkels always worked for a week or two but would then fail. Organs are what's helped consistently.


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## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

I have to force feed Mollie liver. I do exactly what naturalfeddogs does, prise open her mouth, put it as far down her throat I can, hold her mouth shut and once she sticks her tongue out a touch and licks her lip, I know she's swallowed it. Kidney is the worst, she absolutely hates it, it's a fight every single time, we both end up covered in it. I seriously wouldn't bother if it wasn't so necessary.

I'd give it a go before changing foods, you've got nothing to lose.


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## PDXdogmom (Jun 30, 2010)

You did post in the raw section which is good because there are so many knowledgeable people here who know their stuff. But you also asked for some good dry recommendations should you end up going that route. It would be helpful if you could tell us what brands are readily available to you. I know that Acana (produced by Champion in Canada) is sold world-wide. It's a good "all life stages" grain-free kibble with about 33% protein.


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## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

Liver really is necessary for a raw diet- two of my dogs don't LOVE it but they get it mixed with yummy stuff, like canned pumpkin, or covered in fish oil. 

If you are going to go back to commercial food I'd recommend feeding a lot of canned- the 95% meat ones work good.. or if going the kibble route, choose a good quality one like Orijen, EVO or Acana and be sure to add a lot of fresh meats and eggs to it.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Caty M said:


> Liver really is necessary for a raw diet- two of my dogs don't LOVE it but they get it mixed with yummy stuff, like canned pumpkin, or covered in fish oil.
> 
> If you are going to go back to commercial food I'd recommend feeding a lot of canned- the 95% meat ones work good.. or if going the kibble route, choose a good quality one like Orijen, EVO or Acana and be sure to add a lot of fresh meats and eggs to it.


i agree - Snorkels worst issue on dry dog food was dehydration. Constipation, dehydration - such a vicious circle we could never get out of. Even though I soaked her food, I would not feed canned because I was afraid of melamine.

Now, even on raw, I put water with her food. She is floating up to her eyeballs all the time


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## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

I never really thought to add water with their raw- I never do. It'll make Willow even sloppier though. When she drinks 20% goes in her mouth, 30% on the floor, and 50% on her neck folds and wrinkles. Now mix that with chicken juice LOL


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## SaharaNight Boxers (Jun 28, 2011)

If you had to go back to dry may I suggest you try something dehyrated and not as processed as kibble. I know I've found a few dehydrated foods that are in the UK and Europe. It would be better than a kibble as it's not as processed. Did you try to grind the organs?


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## SaharaNight Boxers (Jun 28, 2011)

What if you ground it and mixed it with one of those doggy sports drinks and froze it?


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Caty M said:


> I never really thought to add water with their raw- I never do. It'll make Willow even sloppier though. When she drinks 20% goes in her mouth, 30% on the floor, and 50% on her neck folds and wrinkles. Now mix that with chicken juice LOL


i don't put water in Rebel's food because he just dives down and picks the food out and of course splatters water everywhere in the process. But he doesn't have floppy ears and alot of wrinkly skin like Willow.

But Parker and snorkels lap the water right up. It's especially nice for Parker because he just doesn't drink water - I have four different water bowls set out all over the place and I've never seen him drink out of any of them.


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## BeagleCountry (Jan 20, 2012)

Before giving up try adding 5%-10% more fat to each meal. Any animal fat with the meat removed.


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## LucyinSweden (Feb 20, 2012)

She's been fed pork and beef fat for two weeks before I moved her back to chicken. It's worse than before. She had no constipation issues on kibble.  

It's also Easter weekend here, so everything- and I mean everything- is shut. There is no emergency vet here. Enemas were not vet recommended, but I have done literally everything else (other than the forcefeeding of liver).


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Can you try the liver now? Even if you get some dry food - is she drinking? It's possible she's also dehydrated.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

And some kind of oil - fish oil, olive oil.


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## LucyinSweden (Feb 20, 2012)

She's had 10ml of salmon oil twice a day every day.  I think it's just too much for her. I will feed her a mix of wet and dry and probably give her some meat a couple times a week.


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## ciaBrysh (Dec 16, 2011)

IMO if it was too much for her...she would have the runs really bad. That's just me though.


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## LucyinSweden (Feb 20, 2012)

I just mean that the meat only diet is too much for her.


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## BearMurphy (Feb 29, 2012)

LucyinSweden said:


> I just mean that the meat only diet is too much for her.


i think you just need to add richer meat, fat, and organs to her diet. sounds like she's digesting the food really well


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## 3Musketeers (Nov 4, 2010)

What kind of liver have you tried? Beef, chicken, pork?
For some reason my brats don't like chicken liver much and Popi will outright refuse to eat it. But if it's beef, or even pork they love the stuff.

If not, you could resort to force-feeding the stuff, but I'll tell you liver is great at softening poo (maybe a little too good).


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## Celt (Dec 27, 2010)

I haven't had any real issues in feeding raw (other than spoiled pickiness), but I've added Nature's Variety Instinct and Vital Essential to my pups' "rotation". It's frozen raw food that's been "processed". It's more BARF style food. This way you can get some of the benefits of raw, it's got more "moisture" than kibble, and most of the dogs who've tried it in my family have liked it (all of whom are spoiled brats). I bought Stella and Chewy dehydrated (it might be freeze dried) and the package states that for each patty the dog needs to drink 1/4 cup of water. I generally soak it and use it as a topper. Stella's kinda of expensive, but the other foods cost about the same as good kibble here.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

I fed Snorkels organs from the first day. If she had only meat she would never poop.


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## wolfsnaps88 (Jan 2, 2012)

Will she eat kibble at this point? If she won't eat at all, time for the vet because something is probably up. 

Dozer hates kidney, as does Sarge. Its all I have right now though. I got lucky, if I HANDFEED the spoiled brats side by side, they eat it frozen while competing with each other. Sigh.

My next step would have been putting it into a blender and blending it with something tasty that they do like. 


But, I honestly do not think raw will work for every single dog. I don't. Just like kibble will not work for every single dog. They are individuals and have been bred for generations on kibble *ducks to avoid thrown rotten tomatoes and....spleen?*

I firmly believe in raw, I do. I think, if it were my dog, I would give it a little more time. But, you have to do what is best for both of you. There are many good dog kibbles out there. Taste of the Wild,Weruva, Acana, California Natural (if you don't mind sunflower seed oil), Solid Gold, and so on. See what is available to you. You might find more suggestions in the kibble section. I hope you figure this thing out, poor doggy.


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## ciaBrysh (Dec 16, 2011)

Honestly, the first time she needed the enema I would have taken her in just to make sure there was no blockage.


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## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

I would go the liver route as well. All dogs are different. Look at my dogs.

Dude (8 year old, 61 lb, intact, male smooth collie) eats 1.5 lbs per day and around 60-70% of that is chicken and turkey. He needs to have around 30% bone and HAS to have it every day. Boneless meals don't sit well with him. He doesn't get nearly as much organ as Buck and we have to make sure he is getting a meal that is closer to 40-50% bone on days he gets an organ chunk with his meal. If I were to give him a meal of beef heart we would have cannon butt for days.

Buck (1 year old, 61 lbs and still growing, intact male bluetick coonhound) eats 95-100% red meat. He loses weight too easily on poultry so he gets nearly all red meat. The only time he gets chicken or turkey is when we don't have enough red meat to make a whole meal for him or we need that smelly chicken gone NOW because it's stinking up the fridge. He doesn't just eat red meats. He eats beef heart. He doesn't need a whole lot of bone either. He eats 2.5 lbs per day and often gets 2.5 lbs of beef heart three or four days in a row without needing any bone. He can even have a big chunk of organ with that rich meat and still not have the runs. He just doesn't need a whole lot of bone and he can't eat too much poultry without dropping weight like crazy.


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## Amy18 (May 17, 2011)

Lexie wouldn't touch organs at all at first either. I tried frozen first then seared, she ate the seared for a while but when I stopped she became picky again. What works for me now is spinkling a tiny bit of Parmesan cheese on them, she eats them completely raw and gobbles them up before I can turn around. You've gotten some great advice here i hope you will try sticking it out a bit longer but if not I understand. Still I would not go back to kibble, I would probably try a premade barf.


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