# Not quite sure where this goes, but- Hill's sent PetSmart their nutrition booklet.



## Mokapi (Apr 7, 2011)

It urges us to tell customers how good corn is for dogs. Seriously. Corn is a HIGHLY digestible grain, far more digestible than wheat, rice, etc. Only 2.3% of all food allergies are to corn. Dogs are omnivores and raw diets pose obvious concerns, such as fractured teeth, salmonella poisoning, and meat allergies. Orijen is also lying to consumers because one of the ingredients in their food, zea mays, is actually corn. Orijen is not a good food for dogs and cats. Corn is not a filler, because fillers provide no nutritional value and corn is extremely healthy and grains are necessary in a canine's diet. BARF and raw diets do not meet nutrition needs. 

-.-


I guess if you tell yourself something enough, you'll actually start believing it. Oh, and of course all of the studies were done by Hill's.


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

WOW....WOW...WOW!!!

:frown:

This is pretty much EXACTLY the BS that my FIL got fed from his vet....he believes EVERY SINGLE word!!


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## hmbutler (Aug 4, 2011)

Mokapi said:


> Orijen is also lying to consumers because one of the ingredients in their food, zea mays, is actually corn. Orijen is not a good food for dogs and cats.


So it is suggesting Orijen is NOT good, because it DOES include corn (albeit "secretly")? Geez Hills sure are a breed of their own, aren't they... freaking crazy


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Sounds exactly like the spiel from the ER vet - corn is GOOD for dogs, highly digestible, good for stomach upset. And with a waiting room full of Science Diet - I guess so.

Very sad. PetSmart will probably sell alot of it.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

So are you going to deliver the message? How on earth can you get around that?


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## hmbutler (Aug 4, 2011)

Scarlett_O' said:


> WOW....WOW...WOW!!!
> 
> :frown:
> 
> This is pretty much EXACTLY the BS that my FIL got fed from his vet....he believes EVERY SINGLE word!!


THATS THE PROBLEM!! I was told by my vet that Purina Supercoat was all my cat and dog needed (they don't even sell the Purina, he told me to get it from the supermarket), along with water... why would I question him? He is supposed to know everything regarding my pet's health, who else would I trust to be educated on these matters?? 

It's so frustrating now when I tell people about raw, and they say things like "the breeder has bred these puppies all her life, and she's ALWAYS fed _______ so I know thats what the puppy needs", or "my puppy has really sensitive skin so he's on these REALLY EXPENSIVE biscuits that are specially designed for his skin problems". But then I remember when people asked what I fed Duke when he was little, and I would wave away their "home cooked" ideas and say "no the vet told me all he needs is dry food and water"

It borders on an abuse of power - if a lawyer or accountant did this type of thing in their business, they'd have their pants sued off them!!

Good news is, when I took Duke to the vet the other day for the first time since starting raw, I mentioned that I'd switched him to a diet of raw meat and bones, and the vet smiled and nodded and just continued the examination :thumb: just told me to reduce the volume a little so he leans up a bit more lol


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## Mokapi (Apr 7, 2011)

xellil said:


> Sounds exactly like the spiel from the ER vet - corn is GOOD for dogs, highly digestible, good for stomach upset. And with a waiting room full of Science Diet - I guess so.
> 
> Very sad. PetSmart will probably sell alot of it.


We have Nutro and Blue Buffalo reps that come in on the weekends...I'm surprised how many people buy Blue. I know it's not a GREAT food, but it's waaaay better than what people are usually feeding. I've personally convinced...I think 11...customers to switch from something onto Blue in the past two weeks. It's not a huge accomplishment, but it makes me feel good that I can convince people. 

I take my job very seriously at PetSmart and work very hard to convince people. I step into conversations to give extra information and try to persuade EVERYONE. It's unfortunate how many people take their breeders' words for it. One woman breeds German rottweilers (backyard breeder definitely) and she's only ever fed Bil-Jac and Purina and said that dogs can't eat food that doesn't have corn in it. I tried working with her for a good 15 minutes...best I could do was get her to buy some canned Blue Wilderness to supplement. I feel so bad for the dogs that have owners like that.


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## Tobi (Mar 18, 2011)

Hills is so full of  it's unbelievable...

WHAT IS ZEA MAYS and WHY IS IT IN ORIJEN?

A: The Zea Mays in ORIJEN is CORN SILK which is actually classified as an herb or botanical – not a grain. Corn Silk is NOT made from grain but rather from filaments from the flowers of female corn plant. This costly botanical features Maizenic Acid as an active ingredient and is formulated in ORIJEN diets at 300mg/kg. As corn silk does not contain corn starch or corn protein it poses absolutely no risk to dogs that may have corn allergies.

Corn silk is used to treat urinary tract infections and kidney stones and is regarded as a soothing diuretic useful for any irritation of the urinary system (a common health problem in today’s companion dogs and cats). As corn silk is used as a kidney remedy and in the regulation of fluids, this herb is believed to be helpful in treating high blood pressure and water retention.

As a well known herbal remedy, corn silk is used to treat urinary conditions in countries including the United Sates, China, Haiti, Turkey, and Trinidad. Furthermore, in China, corn silk as a component in an herbal formula is used to treat diabetes.

Source~Orijen's FAQ page.


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## cprcheetah (Jul 14, 2010)

Pretty sad they have to resort to talking bad about other food companies, that was always a HUGE pet peeve of mine when my dad carried Hill's their rep was ALWAYS dissing the other brands (Royal Canin and Purina).....yeah that inspires confidence in me. I'm just glad that my babies are fortunate to NOT have to try to process corn.


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## Mokapi (Apr 7, 2011)

I know it's different than corn and stuff, but I will never doubt again that dogs can't process grains: Chip got into my hamster's bag of food (my fault, I always leave the bag out but didn't close it all the way) and the next day his poop was pretty much nothing but the hamster food...and it looked just like it was in the bag. No change.


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## Unosmom (May 3, 2009)

This makes me chuckle because Hills recently came out with their "natural" formula which contains no corn. Does that mean that all their other food is unnatural crap? Me thinks so

Hill


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## KittyKat (Feb 11, 2011)

Yeah I chuckle at that.... Hills says corn is great for your dog, then releases a dog food without corn... and advertises that fact as something positive about their new food.


Soooo which is it Hills?


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## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

I am SOOOO glad I don't work at PetSmart (I am beginning to think they should stop lying and change it back to PetsMart) anymore! I would NEVER have been able to lie to people like that! I worked as a bather back in the groomers so it's likely that I wouldn't have been required to shove that nonsense down people's throats, but still... Ugh. I think I am going to go to PetsMart (this is how I am going to write it from now on, heehee) and stroll down the food aisles a while and see if I can strike up a food conversation.

How do you plan to get around this? Can you go to your higher ups and say, "Hey, look. This goes against everything I believe in regarding dogs' health. I won't say anything to argue with this, but I can't walk around telling people this stuff." I don't know if that would work but who knows? My managers wouldn't have tolerated that just because they were on a power trip.


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## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

Here's some more Hills crap... Promoting that dogs are omnivores...

"Omnivores, such as dogs and people, don't have higher requirements for taurine and certain vitamins and can create their own arachidonic acid from vegetable oils.

Omnivore qualities

There are other nutritional, behavioral and physical factors that separate the omnivore and carnivore worlds:

Dogs have teeth (molars) with relatively flat surfaces designed to grind up bones as well as fibrous plant material.
Dogs can digest almost 100% of the carbohydrates they consume.2
Dogs have a small intestine that occupies about 23 percent of the total gastrointestinal volume, which is consistent with other omnivores; the small intestine of cats occupies only 15 percent.3,4
Dogs can create vitamin A from betacarotene found in plants.
Confusion in their conclusion

(Here's the kicker most likely aimed at raw feeders)*Some folks have come to the erroneous conclusion that dogs must be carnivores because they fall under the order Carnivora*. A close look at the anatomy, behavior and feeding preferences of dogs shows that they are actually omnivorous — able to eat and remain healthy with both animal and plant foodstuffs."

I just looked and my dogs don't have molars with relatively flat surfaces nor do they grind bones. Do yours?


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## Unosmom (May 3, 2009)

omg, I seriously want to punch whoever wrote this in the face -_- I just had my anatomy test yesteday and No, dogs do not have grinding teeth, they have molars, but they are not flat therefore cannot break down cellulose to extract nutrition. Ugh, who writes this crap?

I want to see one article that says that plant matter is more digestible then meat.


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## Imgliniel (Sep 1, 2011)

So here is the new corn free stuff

Chicken, Brown Rice, Whole Grain Wheat, Cracked Pearled Barley, Soybean Meal, Chicken Meal, Pork Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), Dried Egg Product, Natural Flavor, Whole Grain Oats, Apples, Lactic Acid, Soybean Oil, Cranberries, Peas, Carrots, Dried Beet Pulp, Iodized Salt, Flaxseed, Broccoli, vitamins (L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin A Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin, Folic Acid, Vitamin D3 Supplement), Calcium Carbonate, Vitamin E Supplement, Choline Chloride, minerals (Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite), Taurine, preserved with Mixed Tocopherols and Citric Acid, Phosphoric Acid, Beta-Carotene, Rosemary Extract

Between the wheat oats and barley there is just as much grain in this, they just replaced the corn with wheat.

Edited to add:

Did anyone else see the little "explore my bowl" thing? The dogfood bowl is a full HALF grains and potatoes, 1/4 meat and the other quarter is some fruits and veggies and vitamins. click on the link to petMD and you get this!

The largest part of MyBowl is represented by carbohydrates. Carbohydrates are important sources of energy that help maintain blood sugar levels and keep your dog feeling full. Carbs also provide some essential minerals and vitamins, as well as fiber to promote proper digestion. You will find any carbohydrates listed in the ingredients list on the back of the bag

MyBowl: What Goes into a Balanced Diet for your Dog? | petMD


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## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

I love how they say cats are carnivores and then go on to produce:

Ingredients
Brewers Rice, Corn Gluten Meal, Pork Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), Chicken By-Product Meal, Soybean Mill Run, Pork Protein Isolate, Chicken Liver Flavor, Calcium Sulfate, Fish Meal, Choline Chloride, Potassium Chloride, Potassium Citrate, Natural Flavor, Iodized Salt, DL-Methionine, Taurine, vitamins (Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin A Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Folic Acid, Vitamin D3 Supplement), minerals (Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite), Phosphoric Acid, preserved with Mixed Tocopherols and Citric Acid, Rosemary Extract.

I'm sure glad they listen to their own advice...
And yet this prescription food here is $4/lb. More than Orijen.


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## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

They don't train their employees well imo. Back in the day I worked there and I always recommended Nutro, I had no idea. I went there to find a collar for my Iggy, and it went like:

"Do you have collars for greyhounds?"
"We actually have collars for all color dogs!!"

.. SERIOUSLY. Apparently dog collars are color specific, now.


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## KittyKat (Feb 11, 2011)

Caty M said:


> They don't train their employees well imo. Back in the day I worked there and I always recommended Nutro, I had no idea. I went there to find a collar for my Iggy, and it went like:
> 
> "Do you have collars for greyhounds?"
> "We actually have collars for all color dogs!!"
> ...


Oh dear... the trouble i had asking for a collar for my whippet. Words like "martingale collar" "sighthound" "whippet" all met with blank faces. I had to explain why they use wide collars... and of course no one carries that sort of thing.

I haven't even tried asking about food. Eep!


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## schtuffy (May 17, 2010)

Uhh...last I checked (yesterday), my dog did not have a single flat tooth in his mouth. 

I feed my BIRDS corn...and peas and other veggies. It's inevitable they fall on the floor and Louis will eat the scraps sometimes, but if corn is so digestible then why is it I find it in his poop the next day looking the same way as it did when he ate it???


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## Caty M (Aug 13, 2010)

No flat teeth here!


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## Mokapi (Apr 7, 2011)

Dude and Bucks Mamma said:


> I am SOOOO glad I don't work at PetSmart (I am beginning to think they should stop lying and change it back to PetsMart) anymore! I would NEVER have been able to lie to people like that! I worked as a bather back in the groomers so it's likely that I wouldn't have been required to shove that nonsense down people's throats, but still... Ugh. I think I am going to go to PetsMart (this is how I am going to write it from now on, heehee) and stroll down the food aisles a while and see if I can strike up a food conversation.
> 
> How do you plan to get around this? Can you go to your higher ups and say, "Hey, look. This goes against everything I believe in regarding dogs' health. I won't say anything to argue with this, but I can't walk around telling people this stuff." I don't know if that would work but who knows? My managers wouldn't have tolerated that just because they were on a power trip.


I definitely don't try to sell Hill's. This Hill's pamphlet is in the break room so we can "educate" ourselves. We actually try to sell Blue Wilderness the most, or the PetSmart brands (Authority, mostly, or Simply Nourish). Those of you having issues with collars...there are things very similar to martingales but unless you find an employee who's there for the animals not the job then consider yourself fresh out of luck. My co-worker Shelby and I can educate the crap out of customers, but two of the others in my department are idiots. One of the trainers is extremely knowledgeable; the other I really don't like even listening to because she annoys me so bad. Try to find someone in PET CARE, not a random employee. You'll have better luck. 

Also, all of a dog's teeth are flat...what are you guys talking about??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!


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## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

Imgliniel said:


> So here is the new corn free stuff
> 
> Chicken, Brown Rice, Whole Grain Wheat, Cracked Pearled Barley, Soybean Meal, Chicken Meal, Pork Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), Dried Egg Product, Natural Flavor, Whole Grain Oats, Apples, Lactic Acid, Soybean Oil, Cranberries, Peas, Carrots, Dried Beet Pulp, Iodized Salt, Flaxseed, Broccoli, vitamins (L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin A Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin, Folic Acid, Vitamin D3 Supplement), Calcium Carbonate, Vitamin E Supplement, Choline Chloride, minerals (Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite), Taurine, preserved with Mixed Tocopherols and Citric Acid, Phosphoric Acid, Beta-Carotene, Rosemary Extract
> 
> ...


Yea, I saw that. I chose not to even mention it because we all know how stupid that company is already. I already had a good sized post and adding a rant about the bowl would have made it MUCH longer! Haha



Caty M said:


> They don't train their employees well imo. Back in the day I worked there and I always recommended Nutro, I had no idea. I went there to find a collar for my Iggy, and it went like:
> 
> "Do you have collars for greyhounds?"
> "We actually have collars for all color dogs!!"
> ...


I want to take offense in that, but I can't. I just can't. Haha. I was trained well because I worked back in the grooming salon (trained by a whole different set of people and you are actually learning with hands on experience) but their store workers are back in a little room reading a book with video clips from 10 years ago in some cases. In the salon, we are dealing with various breeds all day long. We have to know what breeds can and can't be muzzled should they get nippy during nail trimming, what breeds have sensitive skin, what breeds have sensitive ears, etc. We generally know what breed a dog is when it walks in the door.

For the most part, if you need a breed specific question answered, try going back and asking someone from the grooming salon (or to the side. ours was the only one I have ever been in where the salon is all the way in the back). Just say, "Hey, I know you guys are the groomers but I feel that you are more intelligent when it comes to breed specific questions". All of us in the salon love dogs and most have dogs. The employees up front aren't always the same. In our PetsMart, most of the employees were pet-less kids who's parents made them get a job and this is who called them back. They are not there for the animals and probably hate their jobs.



Mokapi said:


> I definitely don't try to sell Hill's. This Hill's pamphlet is in the break room so we can "educate" ourselves. We actually try to sell Blue Wilderness the most, or the PetSmart brands (Authority, mostly, or Simply Nourish). Those of you having issues with collars...there are things very similar to martingales but unless you find an employee who's there for the animals not the job then consider yourself fresh out of luck. My co-worker Shelby and I can educate the crap out of customers, but two of the others in my department are idiots. One of the trainers is extremely knowledgeable; the other I really don't like even listening to because she annoys me so bad. Try to find someone in PET CARE, not a random employee. You'll have better luck.
> 
> Also, all of a dog's teeth are flat...what are you guys talking about??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!


That's good. I thought maybe it was going to be something you were going to be required to do. So you pretty much still have the freedom to promote whatever brand you want (that's what it sounds like)? That's a relief. Imagine how hard it would be to have to promote Hills...


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