# Food allergies? long post



## Sapphire-Light (Aug 8, 2010)

Almost a year ago Pompadour is having some allergy issues, he got dry skin, dandurf in some areas, a few pimples in his belly , itchness and hair loss

At the vet first told me it could be a bacterial infection, he got some antibiotic and cortisone shots , plus some pills, he got better for some months, however the issue stared to come back I took him to the vet when he stared to get itchy again and I noticed a pimple like the ones he got before

As for his meals he gets a rotation of eukanuba small breed, royal canin chihuahua and science diet small breed (not eating the SD for the moment), plus a topper in the kibble of cooked chicken, beef, or liver and veggies, and two raw chicken wings a week 


*The vet suspect he might have some food allergies/issues:*

*1) dyes *: he doesn't get kibble wit dyes on them, however the vet told me to get rid of the treats that have dyes on them, I admit my dog gets some begging strips who do have dye, since I fed him a bit I thought it wounl't be an issue ugh 


*2) lack of vitamins: *this might be a reason, as sometimes he only eats the meat of the topper but he refuses to eat all the kibble, I tried to give hime fish oil before but he disliked it,.......... in the last visit the vet gave me a new liquid supplement that has omega oils plus other vitamins, the supplement has a bacon smell ..... finaly something that he would eat, he really loves it 

*3) grains: * the vet is a supporter of grain free I like the idea, however the biggest problem is the limited available types of grain free here in Central America, the only ones are kirkland, earthborn holistic, a couple of weeks ago I saw propac ultimates in the store 

The kirland kibbles are too large for his toy poodle teeth , I tried to feed the EB but he refused to eat it, haven't tried the propac yet as they haven't sold all the old formulas bags they only put like 3 types of the new ones so I'm waiting to see more of this new bags to see wish one has a smaller kibble
*

So since I got so few options wit grain free the vet suggested:*

Take off the treats wit dyes
Feed the vitamins for two months

*And if it is not enought after the two months or if he isn't getting better :*

A choice of this kibbles:

Hills d/d or Hills i/d (possible kibble size problem) 

Royal canin hypo allergic or royal canin intestinal

Propac ultimates

Earthborn holistic (he dislkes the taste) 


Wow! I almost forgot to mention, like 3 years ago he had an allergy attack wit a mold from some old moldy bricks that came out when some workers were fixing a bathtube issue in a bathroom from our house, the vet gave Hills d/d but Pompadour refused to eat because of the big kibble size for his tiny mouth


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## Sapphire-Light (Aug 8, 2010)

If he doesn't get better we have to get of those food, not sure wish one to choose since he has issues wit kibble size and pickyness 

Here are some pics I took today of the dandurf areas wit hair loss, the rest of his skin and fur is fine 


*Left area near elbow *



*
Right size near his belly *


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## NutroGeoff (May 15, 2013)

Generally, I would recommend that you try to switch to a food with a different meat protein as the first step when you suspect a food allergy for dogs. I believe that most of the foods you listed are chicken based products correct? I generally rerecommend just a lamb and rice product as the first option, if that doesn't work, a more novel protein or grain free or both might be the best option.


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## Sapphire-Light (Aug 8, 2010)

NutroGeoff said:


> Generally, I would recommend that you try to switch to a food with a different meat protein as the first step when you suspect a food allergy for dogs. I believe that most of the foods you listed are chicken based products correct? I generally rerecommend just a lamb and rice product as the first option, if that doesn't work, a more novel protein or grain free or both might be the best option.



Thanks, the vet said that besides allergies other reason could be that he isn't digesting grains well so the skin issues could be secondary effect 


Yeah most of this foods are based in just chicken or labeled as poultry, of the non poultry kibbles the only ones are:

The eartborns however the kibbles are too large

Science diet lamb, proplan sensitive ( salmon) and eukanuba lamb, however they do have grains

Of the new propacs , I see in the website they have grainfree of lamb, fish and a beef formula .. they didn't had this ones at the store yet so not sure in kibble sizes


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## NutroGeoff (May 15, 2013)

There are quite a few great grain free options out there. I would probably recommend trying one of those before going on to one of the prescription diet dog foods.


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## Sapphire-Light (Aug 8, 2010)

NutroGeoff said:


> There are quite a few great grain free options out there. I would probably recommend trying one of those before going on to one of the prescription diet dog foods.


Thanks, hopefully the new propac bags could come, they haven't put all the types in shelves yet since they still have of the old formulas so I have to wait until they are sold out

The only experience I had wit the prescription diets was when he refused the hills d/d, he only ate a bit so I didn't knew how his body reacts to them, what are the disadvantages to this types of diets? ....... well besides the price the royal canin ones are very expensive


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## NutroGeoff (May 15, 2013)

Well for me, I like to recommend trying other options before going to a prescription diet mainly because of the price and the fact that there are a lot if other options out there which I have seen work wonders. I have seen dogs on the prescription dog foods and still have the allergy issues and they try a non-prescription food and do much better on that. And the non-prescription ends up being much less expensive.


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## dr tim (Mar 27, 2011)

Looks like what is called a "staph collarette" to me in the photo, which is an infection. These often start as a pimple which ruptures and the infection continues outward in a concentric manner. Need to treat the infection as well as the cause for the initial pimple. Seasonality of the occurrence is a big factor(is it or not) and response to treatment gives much information. Certain medicated shampoos and oral antibiotics are usually indicated to treat this issue when it gets to this point, a simple food change usually doesn't make them go away.

Food elimination trials are a possibility or food allergy testing via a blood test. As to deciding on food you need to go with a food made up of proteins the dog may not have eaten yet(change from chicken/rice to pork and potato, for example) to see if that can help the prevention of the pimples arising. Also need to correspond the treats, etc. to those very few proteins as dogs are allergic to proteins, not brands.

Here is a link to an article that may help you a lot; Premium All Natural Pet Food | Dr. Tim's


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## Georgiapeach (Jan 24, 2011)

If the kibble is too large, you could put it in a plastic bag and break it up with a hammer to make it smaller. Worth a try, IMO.


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## Sapphire-Light (Aug 8, 2010)

dr tim said:


> Looks like what is called a "staph collarette" to me in the photo, which is an infection. These often start as a pimple which ruptures and the infection continues outward in a concentric manner. Need to treat the infection as well as the cause for the initial pimple. Seasonality of the occurrence is a big factor(is it or not) and response to treatment gives much information. Certain medicated shampoos and oral antibiotics are usually indicated to treat this issue when it gets to this point, a simple food change usually doesn't make them go away.
> 
> Food elimination trials are a possibility or food allergy testing via a blood test. As to deciding on food you need to go with a food made up of proteins the dog may not have eaten yet(change from chicken/rice to pork and potato, for example) to see if that can help the prevention of the pimples arising. Also need to correspond the treats, etc. to those very few proteins as dogs are allergic to proteins, not brands.
> 
> Here is a link to an article that may help you a lot; Premium All Natural Pet Food | Dr. Tim's



The first time we took him to the vet office the vet us he got an infection caused by bacteria, that the reason could be from an external allergy issue, he got some antibiotics first but they were too strong for his stomash , so the vet gave the antibiotics in shots after that he got better and a few months later the issues stared to come back only a bit, the vet gave an external cortisone cream and it disappears

Now it returned again but the cream didn't work well this time, so the vet is suspecting that might be a food related problem that the skin problem might be a secondary effect




Georgiapeach said:


> If the kibble is too large, you could put it in a plastic bag and break it up with a hammer to make it smaller. Worth a try, IMO.



I tried breaking the kibbles before, also putting them in a blender wit water but Pompadour didn't liked it that way  , it seems that besides the size they are some kibbles that are "harder" to chew than other so some of them are a bit bigger in size but easier to chew than other, the earthborn primitive had small pieces however they difficult to break wit a hammer




NutroGeoff said:


> Well for me, I like to recommend trying other options before going to a prescription diet mainly because of the price and the fact that there are a lot if other options out there which I have seen work wonders. I have seen dogs on the prescription dog foods and still have the allergy issues and they try a non-prescription food and do much better on that. And the non-prescription ends up being much less expensive.


Ok thanks, hopefully the other types of the propac come soon before the opened bags of kibble runs out and maybe I can get some samples, they only had of the RC diets wish I took of the intestinal and anti allergy


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## Shamrockmommy (Sep 10, 2009)

You can soak the kibble in warm water for 15 minutes until they are completely soft and then feed. Or how about feeding all canned food? He is a little guy, he might not eat much and the cost mightn't be to bad? 

I had my bichon tested for food allergies, and it turns out she's allergic to several kinds of grasses. So food changes weren't helping her one bit. 
Every dog is different, of course. But I was scrambling trying out all kinds of foods and nothing seemed to work for her.


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## NutroGeoff (May 15, 2013)

Shamrockmommy said:


> I had my bichon tested for food allergies, and it turns out she's allergic to several kinds of grasses. So food changes weren't helping her one bit.
> Every dog is different, of course. But I was scrambling trying out all kinds of foods and nothing seemed to work for her.


Yeah, dogs can have environmental/seasonal or food allergies. It really just depends on the dog. Food is really just the easiest thing to eliminate without moving into a bubble.


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## Sapphire-Light (Aug 8, 2010)

Shamrockmommy said:


> You can soak the kibble in warm water for 15 minutes until they are completely soft and then feed. Or how about feeding all canned food? He is a little guy, he might not eat much and the cost mightn't be to bad?
> 
> I had my bichon tested for food allergies, and it turns out she's allergic to several kinds of grasses. So food changes weren't helping her one bit.
> Every dog is different, of course. But I was scrambling trying out all kinds of foods and nothing seemed to work for her.


About the soaking in water maybe it depends if the kibble pieces are of the "harder" pieces in comparation to others like I mentioned before, as for example I left soaking the EB Primitivefor about 15 minutes and it was still hard to break even if it was left in the water, only the very top of the kibble was soft but the center was still hard, the SD small breed is similar in size but is softer and pretty easy to break, if is left in water it would get really soft .......... that's a reason in why I want to get samples before buying, since besides size it depends in the hardess of the kibble

The brands of canned foood are limited here, we only have alpo, dog chow, mighty dog, cesar, pedigree and SD, he haven't tried them all as I'm not sure if I can trust some of them



NutroGeoff said:


> Yeah, dogs can have environmental/seasonal or food allergies. It really just depends on the dog. Food is really just the easiest thing to eliminate without moving into a bubble.


Agree, the vet said we can be sure for now what's the alergy could be fron an external source or internal, right now is rainy wit mosquitoes, the grass and other plants grow pretty fast from the rain

The vet said we have to do the food allergy trials now, to see if the allergy comes from an ingredient


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## NutroGeoff (May 15, 2013)

Well I hope you are able to eliminate the issue and get your pup better!


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## Sapphire-Light (Aug 8, 2010)

NutroGeoff said:


> Well I hope you are able to eliminate the issue and get your pup better!


Thanks, he's a better now but still itchy , the vet recommended to switch the food as fast as possible so no 2 months wait, and a shampoo that hopefully would arrive soon at the clinic 

I noticed that at the store some bags of propac grain free chicken and lamb appeard as before they only had the fish GF and the grain inclusive ones , also Pompadour did liked the prescription royal canin samples

Hmmm ...... normaly he gets two types of kibbles in his daily meals, one in the morning and other at afternoon (plus the cooked topper), might try wit two types of kibble , as his already opened bags are going to ran out soon (one faster than the other)


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## NutroGeoff (May 15, 2013)

You might consider trying to stick with just one food to eliminate as many variables as you can to see which food and formula he does well on. Having two bags makes it more difficult to tell which one is the problem if there are still allergy issues. Then once you do find some foods that work it will be easier to go back into having two foods.


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## Sapphire-Light (Aug 8, 2010)

NutroGeoff said:


> You might consider trying to stick with just one food to eliminate as many variables as you can to see which food and formula he does well on. Having two bags makes it more difficult to tell which one is the problem if there are still allergy issues. Then once you do find some foods that work it will be easier to go back into having two foods.


Thanks, those options makes them harder to deside lol


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## NutroGeoff (May 15, 2013)

Haha. Yeah. I hope you find something that will work out for you!


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## Sapphire-Light (Aug 8, 2010)

Update he's getting better now, the dandurff, the itch and the redness in the skin are disappearing 

He's getting the vitamins that have the omegas, I took away the treats wit color dyes and got a bag of RC hypoallergic since is the only kibble witout corn for now that he's willing to eat

Still no samples of the propac ultimates, touching the bags it can be felt that the grain free chicken one has medium sized kibbles but the chicken and rice (but no corn) one has smaller kibbles that feel like the half the size of the grain free versions

Since it doesn't have corn the chicken and rice would be ok for a sensitive dog? or is the gf version sounds better? but that would require to break or soften in water the kibbles


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## NutroGeoff (May 15, 2013)

Generally, I find a chicken and rice to be better for stomach sensitivities rather than skin issues. Generally though, a corn and wheat free food is something that tends to help with allergy issues, in my experience.


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## Sapphire-Light (Aug 8, 2010)

NutroGeoff said:


> Generally, I find a chicken and rice to be better for stomach sensitivities rather than skin issues. Generally though, a corn and wheat free food is something that tends to help with allergy issues, in my experience.


Thanks for the info, the only problem I see wit grain free is that they tend to make the kibble medium or large in size, wish they could think of the little dogs


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## NutroGeoff (May 15, 2013)

Yeah, there aren't a ton of small breed grain free kibble out there. I know that we used to have a couple in our Natural Choice Grain Free and our Ultra Gluten Free but all of those small breed kibble were discontinued.


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## Sapphire-Light (Aug 8, 2010)

NutroGeoff said:


> Yeah, there aren't a ton of small breed grain free kibble out there. I know that we used to have a couple in our Natural Choice Grain Free and our Ultra Gluten Free but all of those small breed kibble were discontinued.


That's bizarre they are so few, I wonder whish are the reasons they aren't in demand like the medium or big dogs are


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## NutroGeoff (May 15, 2013)

I have no idea. I know we stopped making them because the stores stopped ordering them from us since they weren't selling. I mean, you would think that a small breed dog has just as much possibility of having allergies or sensitivities as a large dog.


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## Sapphire-Light (Aug 8, 2010)

Update, he is getting better the progress is slow but is there

Sadly his allergies got a regression as a couple of weeks ago the neighbors repaired all their roof's tiles wit a lot of dust and mold coming out of it, it seems my dog reacted to the dirt as he stared to scratch again and pimples came out from his belly 

The vet gave him some shots and a shampoo 

As for the rest he is better it seems the food is working , besides the RC allergic food I got the Propac grain free lamb as he gets bored of eating only one type of kibble, the propac lamb has smaller kibbles than the other propac grain free formulas


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## NutroGeoff (May 15, 2013)

I'm glad to hear that you have found something that seems to be working well with your dog!


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## Sapphire-Light (Aug 8, 2010)

NutroGeoff said:


> I'm glad to hear that you have found something that seems to be working well with your dog!


Thanks, so far is working great, too bad he got a new reaction from the dust from the roof repair, since for now is hard to know if the diet was the problem or is an outside evironmental issue, it seems he got the shots from the vet in time before it got spread to rest of the body


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## Georgiapeach (Jan 24, 2011)

Your dog could have multiple allergies, including both food and environmental. Since he reacted to the dust, I'd recommend bathing him with a gentle dog shampoo weekly. You might also try wiping his feet and belly with unscented baby wipes after coming inside after being outside. As a natural alternative, I've used a solution of 1/2 apple cider vinegar and 1/2 water to wipe of my allergy dog's feet during grass growing season, as that is her worst environmental allergy. I mix up a batch and keep it in a covered container by the door. Apple cider vinegar has a lot of medicinal applications, internally and externally.


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## NutroGeoff (May 15, 2013)

Sapphire-Light said:


> Thanks, so far is working great, too bad he got a new reaction from the dust from the roof repair, since for now is hard to know if the diet was the problem or is an outside evironmental issue, it seems he got the shots from the vet in time before it got spread to rest of the body


Yeah it is tough to tell sometimes. I am glad that you caught it in time before it got too bad though.


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## Shamrockmommy (Sep 10, 2009)

Sapphire-Light said:


> Thanks for the info, the only problem I see wit grain free is that they tend to make the kibble medium or large in size, wish they could think of the little dogs


Can you get ahold of some Fromm Four-star food? The kibbles are like bbs, my 9 pound poodle eats them up easily, I grind it for my chihuahua, though, because of her megaesophagus and retrograde aspiration. Ground plus water she does just fine with. 

Anyway, the bites are quite small, as are Natural Balalnce LID small breed foods, and those could help with allergies.


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## NutroGeoff (May 15, 2013)

I have still never seen Fromm or Orijin in any of the pet stores I have in my area. I have been going into some newer small independent stores in my area trying to find them but they haven't carried them. Are those primarily online?


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## InkedMarie (Sep 9, 2011)

NutroGeoff said:


> I have still never seen Fromm or Orijin in any of the pet stores I have in my area. I have been going into some newer small independent stores in my area trying to find them but they haven't carried them. Are those primarily online?



I can get it local, depending on what local is: a store 35 minutes away or so. I order online because even if it's a local store that carries a food I want, it's usually more expensive. I haven't had any trouble with closer expiration dates either. I order mostly from Chewy because of great customer service & prices.


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## NutroGeoff (May 15, 2013)

Oh wow. Well there are a few stores around here I haven't gone to. I'll have to check those places.


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## Georgiapeach (Jan 24, 2011)

You can go on the companies' sites and click on the store finder links.


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## InkedMarie (Sep 9, 2011)

Georgiapeach said:


> You can go on the companies' sites and click on the store finder links.


You can but I find they're not very accurate, for me (either stores on the list don't carry it or the stores aren't in existence anymore). I'd say your best bet, Geoff, would be to google for stores in "X" amount of miles from your home then call to ask what that they carry.


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## NutroGeoff (May 15, 2013)

That's a pretty good idea. I may have to do that.


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## Sapphire-Light (Aug 8, 2010)

Georgiapeach said:


> Your dog could have multiple allergies, including both food and environmental. Since he reacted to the dust, I'd recommend bathing him with a gentle dog shampoo weekly. You might also try wiping his feet and belly with unscented baby wipes after coming inside after being outside. As a natural alternative, I've used a solution of 1/2 apple cider vinegar and 1/2 water to wipe of my allergy dog's feet during grass growing season, as that is her worst environmental allergy. I mix up a batch and keep it in a covered container by the door. Apple cider vinegar has a lot of medicinal applications, internally and externally.





NutroGeoff said:


> Yeah it is tough to tell sometimes. I am glad that you caught it in time before it got too bad though.


He's getting better wit the shampoo, he still has a bit of dandurff but the redish color in the skin is almost gone

I noticed He is making less poop lately, I wonder if that is s sing that he got trouble digesting the grains on the prevoius foods? 



Shamrockmommy said:


> Can you get ahold of some Fromm Four-star food? The kibbles are like bbs, my 9 pound poodle eats them up easily, I grind it for my chihuahua, though, because of her megaesophagus and retrograde aspiration. Ground plus water she does just fine with.
> 
> Anyway, the bites are quite small, as are Natural Balalnce LID small breed foods, and those could help with allergies.


No sadly we don't have those brands of kibble here  , the only grain free are the earthborn, propac, kirkland and the prescription hypoallergic foods


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## NutroGeoff (May 15, 2013)

It does sound like he is digesting his food better for sure. That's always a good thing.


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## jessephoenix (Jan 3, 2015)

Food elimination trials are a possibility or food allergy testing via a blood test. As to deciding on food you need to go with a food made up of proteins the beagle dog may not have eaten yet(change from chicken/rice to pork and potato, for example) to see if that can help the prevention of the pimples arising. Also need to correspond the treats, etc. to those very few proteins as dogs are allergic to proteins, not brands.


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## DwayneTaylor (Jan 8, 2015)

You should switch to another food.First of all, go to the doctor and consult about this, because it is a serious issue.


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## Sapphire-Light (Aug 8, 2010)

*Update* he's mush better now after the food switch, so He's in propac GF lamb and Royal canin hypoallergenic along wit the home cooked meat and vegetables


The hair falling and reddness in the skin is gone, pimples have nearly stopped appearing, the dandurff is still there but less, the itch is mush better now

One thing I forgot to mention here is that some months ago he had trouble wit his anal glands, they went sticky gooey similar to Vaseline, had a nasty smell and they got filled REALLY fast it was troublesome

But now the anal glads went back to normal, the vet says is because of the body's better responce to the food and that the stools became harder since he was making very soft poop before and in more quantity 

The vet also says that he still needs more time to fully recober from the allergy 

Here are some picture now that the skin is better and the hair is growing back again in the bald areas were the hair fell off


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## Georgiapeach (Jan 24, 2011)

I'm so glad you found food that agrees with your dog! What a relief for you!!


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## Sapphire-Light (Aug 8, 2010)

Georgiapeach said:


> I'm so glad you found food that agrees with your dog! What a relief for you!!


yes finaly! the allegy detox takes a lot of time but it's worth in the end 

I'm surprised how a diet change can make such a difference in the anal glands


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