# I think my dog just almost died. Or not.



## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

I was feeding them and I gave Snorkels some pieces of kidney in water and she was slurping away while I was at the counter getting Rebel's turkey neck out of the bag. Her bowl is right next to my feet.

In maybe a second or two I heard this metallic CLANG and I looked over and she was laying by the dishwasher which is a good two feet away from her food bowl, and she was laying on her side with her legs stuck straight out like a dead cow, not moving at all.

So my first thought was that she was choked so I started doing the doggie Heimlich on her and realized maybe i better check for breathing. So I stopped and she was sniffing like crazy at Rebel's turkey neck.

i don't know if she was breathing fine all the time or if she really got something stuck and my pathetic Heimlich unlodged it. But I cut the kidney up into small pieces and she's never choked before.

Also, Rebel was standing next to her - I suppose he could have kicked her like a horse and thrown her two feet into the dishwasher door? But he was standing still as far as i know. And his front feet were about even with her head.

Or, maybe she had a seizure. 

Or maybe she did get food stuck and staggered over and hit the door with her head, then fell over. But somehow, she hit the dishwasher door hard enough to make it clang. 

She seemed fine but I was shaking so bad I couldn't stand up. I gave her the chicken neck I was going to give her after her kidney and she ate it right down, then went on the deck and licked up all the turkey neck juice from Rebel's food. 

I wish i knew what happened. I guess I'll never know.


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## Janet At Nutro (Mar 11, 2011)

How scary, I hope Snorkels is gonna be ok.


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## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

My first dog did something very similar years and years and years ago. We were on the beach, running round when she suddenly keeled over, unconscious. Only for a matter of a 10-15 seconds or so. Then got up and went about as if nothing had happened. It happened again a few months later, just a few seconds and then she got up and went on as usual. And another time after that. It was her heart. Maybe thats what happened to Snorkles? Hope not, but it does sound very similar. 
You poor thing, it must have been so upsetting, I feel for you.


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## Khan (Jan 17, 2010)

Holy Crap! I'm glad Snorkels is OK! I know how scary that can be. Hopefully it was nothing serious and hopefully it NEVER happens again!!


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## Mondo (Dec 20, 2011)

Very glad Snorkles is okay, must have been a fright for you!


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

MollyWoppy said:


> My first dog did something very similar years and years and years ago. We were on the beach, running round when she suddenly keeled over, unconscious. Only for a matter of a 10-15 seconds or so. Then got up and went about as if nothing had happened. It happened again a few months later, just a few seconds and then she got up and went on as usual. And another time after that. It was her heart. Maybe thats what happened to Snorkles? Hope not, but it does sound very similar.
> You poor thing, it must have been so upsetting, I feel for you.


Man, I hope not. She has heart disease. I guess I'll make an appointment for another ultrasound; she wasn't scheduled for one until April.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Sounds like either her heart or a seizure. Since she has heart troubles, I'm leaning towards that as well. 

Is she on any medications for her heart?


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## AngelBullys (Jan 1, 2012)

How scary for you , hope she is ok .


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

DaneMama said:


> Sounds like either her heart or a seizure. Since she has heart troubles, I'm leaning towards that as well.
> 
> Is she on any medications for her heart?


No, she's not on medicines yet. And it was just a second or two - I don't even know how she could have hit the dishwasher in that short of time unless she flew over there. I just don't know how I missed what happened. I never thought of her heart at all.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

xellil said:


> No, she's not on medicines yet. And it was just a second or two - I don't even know how she could have hit the dishwasher in that short of time unless she flew over there. I just don't know how I missed what happened. I never thought of her heart at all.


What is wrong with her heart...do you know a diagnosis?


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

DaneMama said:


> What is wrong with her heart...do you know a diagnosis?


yes, she has mitral valve disease. Her heart murmer had been at level 2 up until a couple weeks ago and the vet thought it might be somewhere between 2 and 3 now.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

all her cardiologist told me to do at home was count her breaths and make sure they were slow when she is sleeping, and if I can get a heart rate now and then. nothing about flying across the floor and hitting the dishwasher and going unconscious.

Well, I don't think she was unconscious. Her eyes were wide open and her legs were stuck straight out stiff as boards.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

xellil said:


> yes, she has mitral valve disease. Her heart murmer had been at level 2 up until a couple weeks ago and the vet thought it might be somewhere between 2 and 3 now.


Yes, this is very common in smaller breed dogs. Most end up on medications...usually Furosamide (diuretic/lasix) to decrease the excess buildup of fluid in the chest from increased pressure in the heart and Enalapril (benazapril) which is an ACE inhibitor that reduces the work load of pumping blood throughout the body (relaxes peripheral blood vessel walls). 

They are usually prescribed together as they work well together. BUT they have side effects, mostly with the kidneys. Semi annual blood work is usually a requirement for these drugs. Situations like this are a double edged sword...damned if you do and damned if you don't. Do you treat the heart condition with meds and risk the side effects? Or do you leave the heart condition untreated and risk that she might go into complete heart failure? 

BUT...this is all speculation. We don't know for sure if it is her heart. I would absolutely get her checked out by a vet with ultrasound as soon as you're able.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

DaneMama said:


> Yes, this is very common in smaller breed dogs. Most end up on medications...usually Furosamide (diuretic/lasix) to decrease the excess buildup of fluid in the chest from increased pressure in the heart and Enalapril (benazapril) which is an ACE inhibitor that reduces the work load of pumping blood throughout the body (relaxes peripheral blood vessel walls).
> 
> They are usually prescribed together as they work well together. BUT they have side effects, mostly with the kidneys. Semi annual blood work is usually a requirement for these drugs. Situations like this are a double edged sword...damned if you do and damned if you don't. Do you treat the heart condition with meds and risk the side effects? Or do you leave the heart condition untreated and risk that she might go into complete heart failure?
> 
> BUT...this is all speculation. We don't know for sure if it is her heart. I would absolutely get her checked out by a vet with ultrasound as soon as you're able.



I'll try to get her back in to see the cardiologist before we move in two weeks but chances are small. Last weeks her lungs were perfectly clear, breathing fine, and I can't see any change there. She's had the cough for a long time, but not the wet cough of lungs filling up - just the hacky cough of her heart pressing on her trachea.

she was actually put on vetmedin and two other medications last spring and after we went to the cardiologist he suggested we take her off, which I did. I read the research and it seems if you start them too early it accelerates the heart disease.

And he says surgery is experimental, expensive, and doesn't work.

Thanks very much - I'll call in the morning and tell them she had some kind of spell. The cardiologist is only in Indy once every two weeks but maybe they can fit her in.


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## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

Yes - thats what I remember about Tik, the dry cough, not often but every now and then. 
Good luck, I do think you are doing the right thing getting her another appointment. I really hope they find nothing has changed. Please do let us know how it goes.


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

MollyWoppy said:


> Yes - thats what I remember about Tik, the dry cough, not often but every now and then.
> Good luck, I do think you are doing the right thing getting her another appointment. I really hope they find nothing has changed. Please do let us know how it goes.


yes, her heart never would have crossed my mind had I not come here. I thought at worst a seizure.


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## RachelsaurusRexU (Sep 4, 2010)

Gosh, that must have been horrifying. Poor Snorkels, I sure hope she's alright


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Your cardiologist is right...medicate only when symptoms are bad enough to need the medication. But again, this is hard to judge based on case by case as in every dog is different. If her heart condition is progressed to the point of "spells" then it may be the right time to start medications. 

I've seen dogs do well on drugs for years, but others don't do as well. 

I personally wouldn't be in favor of an experimental heart surgery for Snorkles. Her age and heart condition would make it too risky for me to go through with. 

Please keep me posted on her condition....


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

DaneMama said:


> Your cardiologist is right...medicate only when symptoms are bad enough to need the medication. But again, this is hard to judge based on case by case as in every dog is different. If her heart condition is progressed to the point of "spells" then it may be the right time to start medications.
> 
> I've seen dogs do well on drugs for years, but others don't do as well.
> 
> ...


thanks. you keep hoping that she won't struggle to breathe or have any suffering and will just die in her sleep one day. but I saw her echocardiogram - it's like a flapper with a club on the end of it. No getting around that.

And I still think if she had had her teeth cleaned one damn time in her whole life she wouldn't have this problem. I really really hate those people, whoever they are. 

hopefully, he can see her before we move. Her And her regular vet is on maternity leave. I really have no other vet I trust with her right now.


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

xellil said:


> And I still think if she had had her teeth cleaned one damn time in her whole life she wouldn't have this problem. I really really hate those people, whoever they are.


Most CHF cases like this is actually NOT because they're small breeds. Its because small breeds are prone to dental disease compared to larger dogs. Dental disease leads to conditions like Snorkles has. Which is why its SO damn important to keep up with dental health...whether you feed raw or get regular dental cleanings done or brush your dogs teeth regularly/appropriately. 

It irritates the CRAP out of me when people will shell out $30-50 every month or so for groomings...but doing a dental annually for $250ish...out of the question. People really need to get their priorities straight when owning dogs. Not that I'm discounting the importance of grooming, but seriously I see this all the time.


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

Wow, that must of been scary! I will keep Snorkels in my thoughts and hope that she doesn't have another episode and if you do put her on medication it will have "no side effects"


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

whiteleo said:


> Wow, that must of been scary! I will keep Snorkels in my thoughts and hope that she doesn't have another episode and if you do put her on medication it will have "no side effects"


Thanks so much. I know there is a risk in adopting old dogs and they are worth every minute, but there are just never enough minutes.

My husband is in such denial. He didn't see it. He just said to me "are you sure she didn't just go over and lay down?"

Sure, honey. Right in the middle of her food. And she banged her head into the dishwasher first, left her eyes open, and stuck her legs out like rigor mortis.

I'm actually kind of worried about him when something happens to her. He's never really been attached to a dog in his life, and he dotes on her. Me, I've had my heart broken 50 times so I know exactly how horrible it is.


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

Poor little girl! Sending good thoughts to her heart and yours!


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## tem_sat (Jun 20, 2010)

I can imagine the shock you were in. I will be thinking of Snorkels and hope she recovers from this.


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## Chocx2 (Nov 16, 2009)

I hope she is ok that would of scared the crap out of me.


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## Donna Little (May 31, 2011)

I don't know if either of your guys have gotten choked to the point of not being able to breathe before but what you described is exactly what it looks like. I don't know if my dogs are all just idiots (well okay, I know a few of them are) but so far I've seen Toby, Lily, Briana, Camden, and Nat get choked and fall out like that. When Toby got choked it was early on in the raw feeding and he was the only one eating raw at the time. He was alone with me in the kitchen and he swallowed a large hunk of chicken, stumbled backwards, started swaying back and forth and literally reared up like a horse and fell over on his back. I grabbed him up and did what I assume is a version of the heimlich and it dislodged and he was ultimately okay. I watch all my dogs eat every bite until it's gone because of that incident. When he fell over though he was just like you're saying Snorkels was. Stiff as a board and it was terrifying.  The next dog that got choked was Camden and it looked pretty much the same. I could see he was trying to gulp down a piece that definitely needed more chewing and it didn't work out well for him. Next thing I knew he was tipping over into his bowl, fell to his side and looked like a fainting goat. I grabbed him up and after a little chest pounding the food came back up and he was ready to finish eating it before it was even all the way out of his mouth. (This would be one of the before mentioned idiots I was referring to...) I think most of my dogs act like they'll possibly never get another meal so they eat way too fast. I guess all in all with having 10 dogs that have been on raw for 7 or 8 months now, and only having had a handful of choking incidences, that's not too bad. Especially considering how fast they all try to eat.
Toby's heart murmur was between a 4 and 5 last time he was checked and he's never done the falling over thing. Well, other than the chicken choking episode of course. So hopefully your little hoover dog just swallowed something down the wrong way and that's all it was.
Keep us posted though and tell her none of us appreciate her trying to scare the crap out of you and to stop it! :wink:


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Thanks Donna - that's what was kind of weird to me - she didn't just pass out by her bowl, she somehow banged against the dishwasher two feet away and then fell over. 

It could have happened like you said with Toby, if she had backed up a couple steps, reared up and fell over backwards into the dishwasher, then hit the ground on her side. She didn't look passed out, she looked different than that. But I've never had a dog choke OR pass out so I really don't know. and i can't believe I didn't see it - I was standing right there!!

I can't remember very clearly but I do think i might have put my hand on her chest to check for breath. But it's all such a blur maybe I didn't. i know it's what I thought, that she was choking.

I know one thing - she recovered a heck of a lot sooner than i did.

I just called and the cardiologist is booked until we leave for Texas but they will call me if they have a cancellation. So I'm probably stuck with finding one in texas and then waiting several weeks to get an appointment.

Thanks again - I'm going to assume it was choking and not heart since I can't get in to see the heart doctor and I don't want to take her to the ER for an echocardiogram since that doctor was the one who put her on the heavy unnecessary meds the first time. And i'm going to make sure i cut her food up smaller; maybe I've gotten lazy with the size.


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## Donna Little (May 31, 2011)

Yeah every time one of mine have choked as soon as it's out of their airway they act like nothing happened and are ready to finish scarfing it down. When Toby choked he was very tired afterward but that happened shortly after he did almost die (hence the decision to try raw) and he was easily exhausted.
I think that's probably what happened to Snorkels. When Nat got choked (for hopefully the first and last time), she was standing in front of me and started backing up and went under a small cabinet I have in the dog room and fell out under it. If I hadn't been paying attention I wouldn't have seen where she went. I needless to say haven't tried to let any choking episodes play themselves out to see if they could get the food up without my assistance.
I tried going bigger with my dogs food like I was encouraged to do in the beginning but I've found that if it's not a bony piece they try to swallow it with no chewing and that's when they choke. They do tend to chew bony meat but even then the goal for all my dogs is to get the food into the belly at warp speed! Tiny. Little. Fools. :smile:


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

Donna Little said:


> Tiny. Little. Fools. :smile:



now that cracked me up. You are so right.

and yes, if Snorkels truly had a piece of food in her airway she wasn't going to get it up on her own because she looked like an animal carcass in full rigor.


And it's great that you were being watchful - I have to admit I don't normally leave the room when my dogs are eating but I'm often not looking at them - I'm putting up food, loading the dishwasher etc. 

What happened to her was totally silent and if she hadn't clanged against the dishwasher I wouldn't have noticed for probably another 15 seconds when I had finished getting Rebel's food ready.

Do you turn them upside down? My first reaction was to turn her upside down and squeeze, and then I remembered the thread i read the day before here and i turned her right side up and squeezed. So I don't know which one actually worked. I know when human babies choke you hang them by their heels and slap their back.


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## Donna Little (May 31, 2011)

I kind of just hung Toby somewhat head down and gave him a few jabs with my hand under his ribcage. When the others have choked I grabbed them and held them head downward and just pounded on their side and that's been enough to get the food back up. I'm clearly working towards being a doggie EMT. Maybe I can print myself out a certificate and hang it on the wall....


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

I'm just now seeing this, what a scary experience!!! 

I hope whatever caused it doesn't happen again. :-/


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## HappyPuppy (Sep 26, 2011)

What a scary experience. The OP sounds EXACTLY like when my Ruby choked (tho it's hard to imagine on cut up pieces of kidney or whatever you fed). Ruby absolutely got stiff and fell over on her side with her legs sticking out straight. I did the Heimlich but forgot to have her upside down ... but then I dropped her (on accident) and that's probably what dislodged the bone she was choking on.... I do not want to see that again!!!


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## xellil (Apr 4, 2011)

HappyPuppy said:


> What a scary experience. The OP sounds EXACTLY like when my Ruby choked (tho it's hard to imagine on cut up pieces of kidney or whatever you fed). Ruby absolutely got stiff and fell over on her side with her legs sticking out straight. I did the Heimlich but forgot to have her upside down ... but then I dropped her (on accident) and that's probably what dislodged the bone she was choking on.... I do not want to see that again!!!


The thread that was here a couple of days ago said to hold them up against your chest, not head pointing down. I ended up doing both. Don't know which one worked!

I'm glad to hear both you and Donna say they fall over stiff as a board when choking - it makes me feel more like it's not her heart that caused it.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

i'm so sorry this happened......and sorrier that i missed this post....

how scary that must have been.....

you're in my thoughts as is your honey and snorkels.....


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