# Cropped ears for certain breeds?



## B3r_&_Ray

Hi there, let's first start off by asking what kind of dog you have?
Are their ears cropped or natural?
How do you feel about cropping ears?

I want to get my boxer's ears cropped but then again I don't.
I love the floppiness of them right now because she is a puppy still and she has the whole puppy ensemble look going for her.
But idk if I'm going to regret it when she's older because I like that show-worthy look the cropped ears give them.
Very confused. I only have a short window to do this. My vet said he likes to do it between 10 and 12 weeks and my Ray just turned 10 weeks on Thursday........ any suggestions?

Did you get your dog's ears cropped and are you satisfied with the results?
Or maybe you didn't and really wished you had?


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## xellil

My theory is why mess with perfection?

My Dobie has cropped ears (he was a rescue) and they don't stand up. Dobies naturally have wonderful, soft floppy ears. 

My feeling is if you are doing it for looks - don't. I'm sure you will hear a ton of opinions going the other way  - in the end, you decide whether it's worth it. Personally, I consider it a mutilation. We don't chop people's ears into points so they will look meaner.


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## Sprocket

I see no reason to crop any dogs ears. It is purely for fashion. They look much better in their natural state. I know many people crop pitbulls ears but I would never do that to my dog. IMO it is to make the dog look fierce and Gunner is far from that. I'd rather stay away from the blood thirsty pitbul stereo type and leave him in his natural adorable floppy eared state. My mom said to me the other day that she is normally pretty afraid of pitbulls but around Gunner she feels no fear because of his personality and that he looks like a nice dog. 

Tail docking is another story, however. Many times it is for health benefits (happy tail) or for working benefits (terriers that go down into tunnels and use to be pulled out by their tails). For cosmetic reasons, I dislike tail docking. Why mess with perfection?


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## brandypup

I have a beagle and chihuahua with natural ears and tails.  

Of course if I had a breed that docks I would have to consider my options. I probably wouldn't do it. Not very many dogs look good with cropped ears. I do not liek the box crop look but that is just me. ALso I see very many bad jobs as well. I dont think there are too many that really know how to do it properly. So if decided to do it then would be the job opf finding someone who does it right and does it well. Too much for me to consider. Bad enough finding a decent vet sometimes let a lone someoen who crops.  

tails- I think happy tail is a reason to dock a tail or other medical reason but general looks naw. Ah Natural is bettter. 

Good luck in yoru descions.


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## catahoulamom

I have a pit bull. I would never have even contemplated the idea of cropping his ears because pit bulls are "scary" enough as it is to the general public. However if I had another breed that was usually cropped I would opt not to as well. I don't care what anyone says, it is a painful procedure and the weeks afterwards of healing are a pain in the a** for you and the dog.

I don't mean to sound argumentative or insulting when I say this but to be honest I can't imagine why anybody would ever alter an animal for looks.


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## kady05

I think cropping is a personal preference. If you like the look, then by all means, find a vet with a great track record and have your pup cropped. If you don't, then leave them natural. For me, I wouldn't crop a dog I intended on having "just" for a pet. I'd only crop if I intended on showing the dog.

I have two natural earred dogs and one cropped dog. I LOVE the look of Sako's crop on him. His ears were.. awful as a puppy, and my breeder & I went back & fourth on whether or not to crop him. Decided to at 9wks. when he was still with her.. he was bouncing around at her house playing with his siblings the night after his surgery. After care was very minimal (I picked him up 5 days after his crop), no posting required for him. Remember with a Boxer, you'll more than likely be posting for a LONG time in order for them to stand. I've been around Dane & Dobe pups with their "cone heads" and none seem to mind it though.

Docking is completely different.. it's done at around 3 days old and is looked at as a fairly minor procedure that requires no anesthesia. 

Surprisingly, I have never had anyone be afraid of Sako when out in public, can't say the same about my other two. Have no clue why, because I do understand that sometimes cropping can make them look a bit more serious, but that's been my experience.

Oh - picture of Sako's crop:


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## Sprocket

I believe also that it make increase the chances of getting foreign objects in the ear canal due to not having that natural protection.


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## naturalfeddogs

Its purely cosmetic. Its also a pain to post, wrap, post, wrap..... Boxers imo, look better with natural floppy ears.


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## kathylcsw

I don't have breeds that get their ears cropped but if I did I wouldn't do it. I think all dogs look better with natural ears. Cropped ears look harsh IMO. Both of my dogs - JRT and Toy Fox Terrier - do have cropped tails but they came to me like that. I would not have cropped on my own. For myself I don't believe in cutting off pieces of body parts for purely cosmetic reasons.


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## GoingPostal

All of my dogs came to me as adults, my oldest girl is cropped, the other two are natural. However the crop looks like a homejob, one ear is basically gone, people have told me she looks "scary" compared to the other two and she is prone to ear infections. Personally I would never crop a dog, I love natural ears and don't want to spend a bunch of money or put a dog under for a cosmetic procedure. Some dogs do look really nice with well done crops, danes and dobes especially. If you are looking to crop make sure you see pics and find a vet who knows how to do a proper job, nothing uglier than a bad crop job, I see a lot of Danes with short wide ears and Dobes and Boxers with pit bull looking crops.


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## kady05

GoingPostal said:


> If you are looking to crop make sure you see pics and find a vet who knows how to do a proper job, nothing uglier than a bad crop job, I see a lot of Danes with short wide ears and Dobes and Boxers with pit bull looking crops.


This. Like Cobia, the dog I pulled from AC. His ears were done by his breeder (complete with fishing line for sutures.. ugh)..










So if you do go the crop route, find a vet who can show you pictures of their work, on your breed of choice. A vet that does awesome crops on Amstaffs may not be the best choice for a Boxer, or a Dobe, for example.


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## DeekenDog

You have your puppy already? Don't crop. A good crop takes a tremendous amount of skill by the vet- especially a long crop like a Boxer show crop. Reputable breeders in breeds that crop will have their puppies ears cropped before they go home because skilled vets are few and far between and you want a very experienced vet. An good crop can look beautiful but you don't want to end up with a dog with badly done ears for the rest of its life.

Also, I have a lab mix with natural ears but most of my dog friends are pit bull people.


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## twoisplenty

Boxer ears must be posted and I agree it is very hard to find a vet that a) is willing to do the cosmetic procedure b) that has enough experience to do a good job

It can take months upon months for the ears to stand properly and sometimes no matter how vigilant you are at taping and posting you might have one or both ears that refuses to stand and then you are looking at another surgery to correct this with inserts or a floppy funky ear that looks far worse than a natural one. I much prefer a natural ear but had a client in my last litter that absolutely wanted a crop, plus they had previous experience with taping their previous boxer so I wasnt overly concerned with them being overwhelmed by it. Anyways, there are only 2 vets in all of Ontario that are still willing to crop and I obviously chose the one that I thought was the best as they do croppings on a daily basis for many boxer and Dobe breeders. This girl was done at 10 weeks and was taped right up until she was 8 mths!!!! They feared one ear wouldnt stand and were looking into plastic inserts for the ear.

IMO natural ears are just as nice, there is no pain and they are also accepted in the show ring. They still require taping or massage to sit right though so here is a link if you are interested 

TRAINING NATURAL EARS 1

I tape all our puppies that we keep, especially during the teething phase.


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## GoingPostal

Jersey's crop and Nero's natural ears that I love! 








The ear that is gone :frown:


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## B3r_&_Ray

I completely understand it is mainly cosmetic. My aunt is a breeder and that's where I got her and I want to put her in shows like her father. I personally wouldn't get a pitbull's ears cropped cuz I do agree they look meaner. But with a boxer I think it's showmanship and whatnot. My aunt has done a good job with the father's and mother's ears and she kept a pup this littler (my girl's brother) and she is going to get his ears done cuz she wants to retire the father and put him in shows now. I've been looking at the natural ears and have already been massaging Ray's ears and I understand that there is a lot to keeping up on the maintenance it requires. My min-pin I had, she had them done but she came to us like that. Sadly she is gone now  she had cushings disease and we had to put her down I cried all day


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## lucky

Ear cropping is illegal here so have never seen any dog with it up close. I think natural looks better though tbh. Lucky came to me with her tail docked, she was from a working farm and her breeders had the working dogs license and used their dogs for ratting. She was done by their vet at 2 days old, I am always getting mean looks though here, a lot of people dont like it and have approached me several times asking about it, it's not illegal, I dont have to explain myself to them so I dont. 

I have just enrolled lucky for training classes which start 13th feb, no doubt I will get slated there, I have all the certificates from the vet so I better just take them along, she also had her dew claws removed


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## B3r_&_Ray

Why is it illegal in some places? Is it because they associate it with fighting? Now that's cruel! Fighting animals is not good and getting them done so they don't get them yanked I understand why it would be illegal then.


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## lucky

I dont know why its illegal here, tail docking is very much frowned upon too, if you have a docked dog here you cannot show them


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## GoingPostal

B3r_&_Ray said:


> Why is it illegal in some places? Is it because they associate it with fighting? Now that's cruel! Fighting animals is not good and getting them done so they don't get them yanked I understand why it would be illegal then.


No, it's because it's cosmetic and not a medically needed surgery. Although I believe if the dog has happy tail or ear issues it can be done.


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## xellil

lucky said:


> I dont know why its illegal here, tail docking is very much frowned upon too, if you have a docked dog here you cannot show them


It's illegal I'm sure because it's unnecessary and cruel. Like you say, Dobies in the UK cannot be shown unless they are all natural. Just an example of how we in the US not only allow but encourage mutilation of our dogs to look "good" for the show ring. And another reason I have no love for the AKC.


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## twoisplenty

The practice is illegal across most of Europe, including all countries that have ratified the European Convention for the Protection of Pet Animals, and most member countries of the Fédération Cynologique Internationale.[17] It is illegal in parts of Spain and in some Canadian provinces.[12] The situation in Italy is unclear; the ban effective 14 January 2007 may no longer be in force.[18]

Ear-cropping is still widely practiced in the United States and parts of Canada, with the American and Canadian Kennel Clubs both permitting the practice.[12] The American Kennel Club (AKC) position is that ear cropping and tail docking are "acceptable practices integral to defining and preserving breed character and/or enhancing good health."[19] While some individual states have attempted to ban ear-cropping,[20] There is strong opposition from some dog breed organizations, who cite health concerns and tradition.[13]

The American Veterinary Medical Association "opposes ear cropping and tail docking of dogs when done solely for cosmetic purposes" and "encourages the elimination of ear cropping and tail docking from breed standards".[21] Specifically, the AVMA "has recommended to the American Kennel Club and appropriate breed associations that action be taken to delete mention of cropped or trimmed ears from breed standards for dogs and to prohibit the showing of dogs with cropped or trimmed ears if such animals were born after some reasonable date".[1] Some national chains of veterinary hospitals have voluntarily ceased to perform cosmetic surgeries on dogs.[16] The American Humane Association opposes ear-cropping "unless it is medically necessary, as determined by a licensed veterinarian".[22]

It has been suggested the cropping may interfere with a dog's ability to communicate using ear signals; there has been no scientific comparative study of ear communication in cropped and uncropped dogs.[23]



























Eventually the rest of the world will follow suit and ear cropping and tail docking will be a thing of the past.


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## kady05

xellil said:


> It's illegal I'm sure because it's unnecessary and cruel. Like you say, Dobies in the UK cannot be shown unless they are all natural. Just an example of how we in the US not only allow but encourage mutilation of our dogs to look "good" for the show ring. And another reason I have no love for the AKC.


That's a bit extreme. Unnecessary? Sure. Cruel? Eh. Considering I've seen litters of pups who were freshly cropped running around the day after surgery (without pain meds), I'm not so sure. Is there pain involved? Yes, it's a surgery. But so is spaying/neutering, and neither of those are necessary either yet we have tons of people telling everyone to spay/neuter their dogs. Hell, Wilson had a harder recovery from his neuter surgery than Sako ever did from his crop! 

And from what I know, dogs that have been imported to other countries from the US CAN be shown cropped and/or docked. They just can't be cropped/docked in the country where it's illegal.. which is why you have many breeders importing dogs to the US, having them cropped, then bringing them back to their own country.


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## kady05

twoisplenty said:


> It has been suggested the cropping may interfere with a dog's ability to communicate using ear signals; there has been no scientific comparative study of ear communication in cropped and uncropped dogs.[23]


And that is one of the dumbest arguments about cropping.. I've heard it before though. Spend some time with a cropped dog and you'll see what I mean (not directing this at you, just in general). Sako communicates just fine with his ears LOL.


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## CoverTune

I would definitely crop/dock a Doberman, because I think they look incredible (when done right of course), but not any other breed.

If you look at all wild dogs, they all have upright ears, drop ears seems to be a product of domestication. Upright ears allow for better hearing accuracy, and are less prone to ear infections


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## twoisplenty

See thats another very good argument/discussion right there. I have also read that down natural ears are a mutation.

I have both cropped and natural earred boxers. I prefer them natural but appreciate a good crop.


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## twoisplenty

kady05 said:


> And that is one of the dumbest arguments about cropping.. I've heard it before though. Spend some time with a cropped dog and you'll see what I mean (not directing this at you, just in general). Sako communicates just fine with his ears LOL.


I agree with you there as my males have no issues communicating with cropped ears. When unsure they go to the side or straight back on their heads, when alert they are directed in a forward motion. They look like little antennas at times homing in on any sound they hear, lol.

BTW, my above pst with banned countries was pasted from wiki


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## xellil

kady05 said:


> That's a bit extreme. Unnecessary? Sure. Cruel? Eh. Considering I've seen litters of pups who were freshly cropped running around the day after surgery (without pain meds), I'm not so sure. Is there pain involved? Yes, it's a surgery. But so is spaying/neutering, and neither of those are necessary either yet we have tons of people telling everyone to spay/neuter their dogs. Hell, Wilson had a harder recovery from his neuter surgery than Sako ever did from his crop!
> 
> And from what I know, dogs that have been imported to other countries from the US CAN be shown cropped and/or docked. They just can't be cropped/docked in the country where it's illegal.. which is why you have many breeders importing dogs to the US, having them cropped, then bringing them back to their own country.


It was cruel to my dog to crop his ears. I don't care what anyone says. They don't stand up, and they are just these little pieces of flopping triangles. It's disgusting. I don't care how anyone defends it by saying "oh it wasn't done RIGHT" - the fact that it was done, period, was a cruel act.

Doesn't matter if he was in pain or not. Mutilation is cruel.


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## B3r_&_Ray

xellil said:


> It was cruel to my dog to crop his ears. I don't care what anyone says. They don't stand up, and they are just these little pieces of flopping triangles. It's disgusting. I don't care how anyone defends it by saying "oh it wasn't done RIGHT" - the fact that it was done, period, was a cruel act.
> 
> Doesn't matter if he was in pain or not. Mutilation is cruel.


Not trying to heat anyone's temper cuz I know when someone's mind is set on something it's hard and some what impossible to change their mind just how someone was brought up and raised on how they think. I was brought up and raised to think that it's not cruel but some times unnecessary but let me ask you this....
What do you think about piercings and tattoos on humans? Is that cruel and unnecessary? Yes unnecessary but cruel? All basically cosmetic even ear piercings. Call me cru-ella De Ville lol when I say this but I don't see the difference... I know it's painful for them but I'm right there with Kady05 about having them spayed/neutered, that's also painful and for males it changes the way the act. Not as lively well it was for my rott my friend owns. Just wasn't his playful self anymore not for sure if that was due to him getting older and more obedience classes or because his balls/testosterone was gone.


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## rannmiller

First and foremost, let's not turn this into another thread with a lot of misinformation and arguing about ear cropping. Some people are fine with it, some people are against it. You're never going to change anyone's opinion so let's not try to start here because all it does is cause crazy threads that fly off the handle too quickly and need to be closed. 



B3r_&_Ray said:


> My aunt is a breeder and that's where I got her and I want to put her in shows like her father.


If you truly want to show your boxer, you will probably be better off cropping the ears. While natural ears are allowed in the show ring, they usually don't do very well or go very far in competition. Having said that, I'd love to see natural ears start doing better in conformation, maybe you can start that trend :smile: Having said _that_ showing is a LOT of work, it takes a lot of time and money to show a dog, so make sure you're willing to make that commitment before deciding that's the main reason you want to crop. 

I have a Doberman and also went back and forth on cropping her ears until I finally decided that my money would be better spent on toys and food (and vet bills from her being an accident-prone puppy) than on plastic surgery, but I really had no intention of showing her ever. I absolutely love her floppy ears and how clean they stay. I know she would have looked amazing either way, but I'm glad I decided not to crop. Especially with how big of a pain in the butt cropped ears can be to get to stand properly. 

I really don't prefer the look of cropped boxers, I think that natural ears are much more flattering to the shape of their face, but that's just my opinion. If you do decide to crop, ask your aunt where she recommends going if you haven't already and be prepared for a lot of work and diligence on your part to make sure they stand properly. Remember: natural ears will always look good, but it's really hard if not impossible to fix a bad crop/ears that won't stand. 

Good luck either way!


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## Sprocket

B3r_&_Ray said:


> Not trying to heat anyone's temper cuz I know when someone's mind is set on something it's hard and some what impossible to change their mind just how someone was brought up and raised on how they think. I was brought up and raised to think that it's not cruel but some times unnecessary but let me ask you this....
> *What do you think about piercings and tattoos on humans*? Is that cruel and unnecessary? Yes unnecessary but cruel? All basically cosmetic even ear piercings. Call me cru-ella De Ville lol when I say this but I don't see the difference... I know it's painful for them but I'm right there with Kady05 about having them spayed*/neutered, that's also painful and for males it changes the way the act. *Not as lively well it was for my rott my friend owns. Just wasn't his playful self anymore not for sure if that was due to him getting older and more obedience classes or because his balls/testosterone was gone.


HUGE difference between a human making the decision to get their own body pierced or tattooed, and an owner paying to have a procedure done on their dog. The dog doesn't make the decision.

FWIW - My neutered males have all been completely normal with their temperments and activity levels.


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## B3r_&_Ray

Again I wasn't trying to start an argument lol or heated discussion at all.
Just was trying to get some insight on how and why some ppl thought and was dead set against it and calling other out on it.
I always like to view things from every aspect out there if you know what I mean; and I knew from the get go with starting this thread I would get those type of people who are completely dead set against it and don't like it when others do it and I'm okay with that.
But yea wasn't trying to offend or do anything like that.


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## rannmiller

No worries, I was just reminding people not to go that direction since threads like this can get heated really quickly. Does your aunt think your puppy is show quality? Is showing the main reason you want to crop?


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## minnieme

kady05 said:


> I LOVE the look of Sako's crop on him. His ears were.. awful as a puppy,



....How are a puppy's ears awful? At that age they can still look a little goofy as they'll continue to grow into them. Do you mean he was having serious medical issues with his ears?


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## B3r_&_Ray

minnieme said:


> ....How are a puppy's ears awful? At that age they can still look a little goofy as they'll continue to grow into them. Do you mean he was having serious medical issues with his ears?


hahaha infants and their goofy looking selves with all the stuff that they have to grow into haha it's cute and funny


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## B3r_&_Ray

Yes she said she has potential I just have to make sure I work with her which I have been training basic commands so far and she does great with them. She's a fast learner.


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## malluver1005

Sprocket said:


> I believe also that it make increase the chances of getting foreign objects in the ear canal due to not having that natural protection.


Couldn't agree more.


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## AngelBullys

I have 5 cropped and 1 not cropped and regret very much not cropping that 1. I like the look alot better and so do most judges. The one who isnt cropped gets alot more ear infections then my non cropped dogs Im assuming because it isnt open and cant dry out as easy but the ones cropped have cleaner ears with less ear infections. It does require finding a Great vet with refrences and pictures to see there work before hand its very easy to mess up a crop. I have 1 dog we got a few months back at age 3 and his ears flop over because it was a horrible crop and they werent posted properly if at all. If your not prepared for the work after with cleaning and taping them then dont bother. Its a personal prefrence mine just happens to be for a crop. I own american bullys by the way. { some people unfamiliar with the breed still call them pit bulls}


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## hmbutler

I would vote against it, because it is purely cosmetic (different to tattoos and piercings for people - we make that decision for ourselves. If I chose to tattoo a toddler child who can't make the choice for themselves, I'd go to prison). But then again, I'd never "show" a dog either. I'm not really against showing, as such, because I don't know a whole lot about it, but I'd just never do it, it's not why I have a dog. My dog's will always be pets, first and foremost, and part of my families life, rather than working or show dogs. If I wanted a dog with a certain look, I'd find one who was bred that way (assuming all other aspects of the breeding were ethical too lol). I personally love my dogs big floppy velvet ears, and love playing with them


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## xellil

B3r_&_Ray said:


> Not trying to heat anyone's temper cuz I know when someone's mind is set on something it's hard and some what impossible to change their mind just how someone was brought up and raised on how they think. I was brought up and raised to think that it's not cruel but some times unnecessary but let me ask you this....
> What do you think about piercings and tattoos on humans? Is that cruel and unnecessary? Yes unnecessary but cruel? All basically cosmetic even ear piercings. Call me cru-ella De Ville lol when I say this but I don't see the difference... I know it's painful for them but I'm right there with Kady05 about having them spayed/neutered, that's also painful and for males it changes the way the act. Not as lively well it was for my rott my friend owns. Just wasn't his playful self anymore not for sure if that was due to him getting older and more obedience classes or because his balls/testosterone was gone.


I believe self-mutilation is pretty gross but people make that choice for themselves. If you want to tattoo a spider on your forehead, it's a little masochistic but up to you.

I am actually investing in a enzymatic way to remove tattoos because I see it as a huge money-maker in the future. I don't think people will want a saggy butterfly on their butt when they are 50.

Likewise, if you want to chop half your ears off to look cute, fine by me. It's your body. 

A dog has no choice. And comparing to spay/neuter is so way out there I hardly know what to say to that. It's not for looks. It's so there aren't a hundred million unwanted dogs killed each year, instead of just eight million.


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## xellil

hmbutler said:


> I would vote against it, because it is purely cosmetic (different to tattoos and piercings for people - we make that decision for ourselves. If I chose to tattoo a toddler child who can't make the choice for themselves, I'd go to prison).


I don't know about today, but at least at one time it was perfectly legal for a parent to get their kid's ears pierced as an infant. I used to see them screaming in the middle of the mall all the time. I don't go to malls any more - I dunno, maybe they still do it.


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## kady05

minnieme said:


> ....How are a puppy's ears awful? At that age they can still look a little goofy as they'll continue to grow into them. Do you mean he was having serious medical issues with his ears?


Awful as in, they looked bad and more than likely wouldn't be able to be taped to the correct ear set. This was what his ears did a week before his crop (far left):










The one flipped completely over, bad for a dog set to be in the conformation ring.


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## B3r_&_Ray

xellil said:


> I believe self-mutilation is pretty gross but people make that choice for themselves. If you want to tattoo a spider on your forehead, it's a little masochistic but up to you.
> 
> I am actually investing in a enzymatic way to remove tattoos because I see it as a huge money-maker in the future. I don't think people will want a saggy butterfly on their butt when they are 50.
> 
> Likewise, if you want to chop half your ears off to look cute, fine by me. It's your body.
> .


hahahaha that made me laugh and yea that would definitely be a money maker right there! I never understood why people ink their bodies I admit I have one and I now regret it. I got it when of course I turned 18 because everyone else did and I thought it was cool and really wish I hadn't. I would be one of those people who looked into your removing method. 

and to you xellil yes they do allow parents to get their children's ears pierced. My nieces got theirs done idk whether its a mexican tradition or just for my family (I'm hispanic) but all the girls in our family have gotten their ears pierced before we turned 1.


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## xellil

I don't think people who crop their dogs' ears (or pierce their kids) are evil people. Unless they tie off a tail with a rubber band to make it drop off or take their own knife to an ear there are alot of things people do to dogs that are a million times worse. It's just something I think is mutilation, and there's no need for unnecessary mutilation on a dog or a person.

When i was young tattoos weren't in fashion and I don't have any. But I was a follower - I know if I were younger I'd probably have tattoos everywhere and a bone through my nose to boot.

At one time, I had six piercings in each ear. Those were easy to get rid of though - just quit wearing the earrings. Tattoos - a little more difficult!


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## DaneMama

I haven't read the thread at all...but I'm a huge fan of floppy ears. I personally think that cropping is done for purely cosmetic reasons, and it all depends on the person. I can appreciate the look of a well cropped Dane, BUT I'd never do it. Its just too risky, as so many puppies are lost during the procedure not to mention some ears don't ever stand on their own making the procedure pointless. 

This is about as close to cropped as our Dane will get! 























































And if they were truly cropped...those velveteen ears would be gone...I just love them. I hold them while snuggling her all the time, which may sound weird but I just love it. Her ears are my favorite part of her


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## B3r_&_Ray

Love those pics!!!


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## jdatwood

Plus if you crop them you can't do silly things like this.











How could you take this kind of emotion away


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## Celt

Personally, I don't like cropping because it a full anethesia surgery that doesn't concern the health of the pup. Docking, done at the "proper" age, I don't mind because it's a fairly minor procedure with little before or after care. I don't like "late life" dockings (unless medically necessary) because of the same anethesia risks


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## Sprocket

jdatwood said:


>



I totally have a belt that I bought on top of Grouse Mountain in Vancouver that would match this collar :biggrin:


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## DDBsR4Me

I own Dogue de Bordeaux, so ear cropping isn't something I've had to deal with lately. I did own a boxer in the past, and I left her ears floppy - I think boxers look just fine with floppy ears. 

I've also owned Dobies, both were rescue and had already had theirs ears done. IMO Dobies and Great Danes both look much better with their ears cropped. If I were to ever get either breed as a pup I'd want to have their ears cropped, which is probably why I never will because I just don't want to deal with it. Not that I think it's "cruel", it is like any other surgery, and while maybe not necessary, I don't think it's any more painful than a spay/neuter procedure. Also is the issue of finding the right vet, who knows what they are doing and will do it right. I have friends with show danes so I could go to their vet, but like I said I don't really think I'd want to mess with it. 

I guess if you're planning to show, I would recommend you have her ears done. As other have stated, she most likely won't do as well in the show ring with floppy ears.


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## B3r_&_Ray

With everyone saying she wouldn't do well in shows I wanna keep them natural and prove they can do well in shows hahahahaha but yes I wish my aunt would have had them done before she let me take her home, because it is an expensive procedure and time consuming.


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## hmbutler

B3r_&_Ray said:


> With everyone saying she wouldn't do well in shows I wanna keep them natural and prove they can do well in shows


Do that then :biggrin: would be something to be very proud of!


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## bernadettelevis

First of all, i just don't like how cropped ears or docked tails look. There is not one single dog that (in my opinion) looks better with cropped ears. But that is just my opinion.

Here it is illegal. However many people take their dogs (actually only or mostly dobes) to the czech republic to get their ears and tails done, but they cannot be shown in Austria. It is legal to dock tails if it is for a medical reason.

I don't think you can compare tattoos or plastic surgery in humans with cropping ears, humans decide it for them selves i doubt that a dog would think that he would love his ears cropped.
Plus i really LOVE my dogs ears.

And i think it would be great to leave your puppies ears all natural and prove that he can still do great in the show ring.

I do not want to hurt anybody, but if you crop your dogs ears because his natural ears would be a flaw in the show ring is not the right thing to do. Next step is to make other kinds of plastic surgeries to make dogs fit the show ring. Where does it stop?? but that is also my personal opinion.


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## kady05

B3r_&_Ray said:


> With everyone saying she wouldn't do well in shows I wanna keep them natural and prove they can do well in shows hahahahaha but yes I wish my aunt would have had them done before she let me take her home, because it is an expensive procedure and time consuming.


Just be prepared for her not to. Boxer's aren't one of the "easy" breeds to show and are generally a handler breed.. so especially if you're planning on owner/handling her, I'd probably crop. Here's the ear section from the AKC standard:

Ears
Set at the highest points of the sides of the skull, the ears are customarily cropped, cut rather long and tapering, and raised when alert. If uncropped, the ears should be of moderate size, thin, lying flat and close to the cheeks in repose, but falling forward with a definite crease when alert.

Honestly I don't know that I've ever seen a Boxer, Dane or Dobe at any shows with natural ears. 

I feel that if your Aunt thought she was a show quality pup, she would've had them cropped. Was she given to you as a pet or as a show quality dog?


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## hmbutler

I don't know much about the AKC, but they sure do sound appalling... ugh...


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## meggels

I've seen boxers at shows with natural ears. 




I'm not a fan of cropping. I think it looks too harsh and severe. I love floppy soft ears. We've had three boxers, all three were left natural. I loved their ears so much. Our current dog, Cooper, with his silly ears:











































I love those ears <3


And Natalie- not weird at all. Abbie has velvetty ears, I love just petting them or holding them haha.


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## kady05

meggels said:


> I've seen boxers at shows with natural ears.


Yes you SEE them (sometimes), but do they place? From my quick Googling on the subject (since I know next to nothing about the Boxer standard), they usually get overlooked. Apparently it was only a few years ago when the AKC standard changed to even allow natural earred Boxers to be shown.

I did find this link interesting: Ears, has a picture of what a correct natural ear should look like.


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## xellil

Boxer and Great Dane ears are similar. Basically, just hilarious. I can't imagine cutting them off.

Dobie's natural ears are like **** dogs - long and soft and velvety. If my dog's ears were natural, 90 percent of the people in this world would have no idea he's a Dobie because the ears are so associated with the dog.

Rebel's rescue says they are getting more and more requests for Dobes with natural ears because people who live in HOAs or just want to be left alone can own a Dobie without the reaction to the breed. Folks just flat don't know what breed they are.


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## meggels

Dunno, I've never watched because they were always in the ring pretty close to the frenchies lol. 

And yes, Cooper has incorrect natural ears, but he's a pet, we don't care  They give him character lol.


And I'm not against AKC and showing, in fact, I'd love to get into it again someday for fun. But I'd go with a breed that doesn't require cropping, because it goes against my personal beliefs. 


People always thinks frenchies are docked and cropped, luckily they are just born that way lol.


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## DaneMama

Danes are actually doing quite well in the show ring with natural ears. They're becoming more and more popular...

Show Dane Photo Gallery - Main Index - Powered by PhotoPost


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## twoisplenty

I would love to see a stacked picture of your puppy. Just because she comes from show parents does not guarantee she is of show quality. 

With your girl being a flashy fawn she will not be dismissed as a plain black masked would. Natural ears are all through our show rings and if you have a judge that actually follows the standard, it should not matter if they are cropped or natural as the head stays the same regardless. Which ever route you decide to go, you will be taping as fly away ears are not appealing in the ring either.


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## twoisplenty

meggels said:


> I've seen boxers at shows with natural ears.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not a fan of cropping. I think it looks too harsh and severe. I love floppy soft ears. We've had three boxers, all three were left natural. I loved their ears so much. Our current dog, Cooper, with his silly ears:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I love those ears <3
> 
> 
> And Natalie- not weird at all. Abbie has velvetty ears, I love just petting them or holding them haha.


Well isnt he adorable??


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## Herzo

Just my 2 cents but I will say a good crop on a Dane, boxer and Dobe are very regale looking but I'm quite sure I would never have it done. I could never go through with it they look so sad with their ears taped up. And a bad job is just awful I could never do it.

And sagging tattoo on your arse way to funny that made me laugh. I too agree with this.


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## DandD

Obviously I love my floppy ears, I was going to list the reasons for you but there's just so many reasons why :biggrin: so here's a couple. There just so darn cute, and soft, and fun to tug - very gently of course.

My male is 70 lbs of pure solid muscle and when he's excited and running he scares the crap out of people who don't know him, now imagine him with cropped ears, yeah, so many people already mistake him for a pitbull (no offence meant, I think they are beautiful and lovely dogs and every one of them I have met has been an amazing dog), I just mean that cropped ears make them look so much meaner, and my boy Dodger, he's a lover not a fighter :biggrin: 

My baby girl, now she is 50 lbs of lean delicate looking muscle, turns out we picked the right name when we chose Daisy, she looks so tiny and pretty next to him and I can't even imagine her with cropped ears, her floppy ears are what make her so pretty, really, her face is so lovely with her black mask with just the touch of white on her nose and those floppy ears, well she wouldn't be nearly as pretty without them.

But, I never, ever had any intention of showing either one of them, they are my fur-babies.

BTW, your's is adorable from what I can see in your avatar. Congrats!!!


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## meggels

twoisplenty said:


> Well isnt he adorable??





He is a big doofus lol.


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## NewYorkDogue

I'm kind of torn between the two camps on this issue, although if it came down to whether or not I would crop, I don't believe I could actually have my pup go through the procedure and process of healing, no matter how it may enhance their "look."

Although I knew I would end up with a Dogue de Bordeaux, there was a minute there where I was considering a Cane Corso. Corsos usually do have their tails docked, and their ears cropped. Sometimes the crop enhances the look of the dog, sometimes not so much. It depends on how well it's done, but also the overall shape of the dog's head. I had found a breeder whose dogs I fell in love with, and was considering that breed... but I was very conflicted over the whole crop/dock thing.

Went back to my original choice (DDB) and am happy I did (best dogs ever!). But I am relieved not to have to wrestle with the crop/dock issue-- and I do love a nice soft ear...

(And, yet, in my opinion, Dobermans with a perfect crop are stunning.)


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## NewYorkDogue

meggels said:


> People always thinks frenchies are docked and cropped, luckily they are just born that way lol.


Funny, I was just wondering about that-- their tails, I mean. So they really don't have much tail naturally? 

Anyway, I cannot resist a Frenchie butt. (Wait. Does that sound a bit weird?) hwell:


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## meggels

NewYorkDogue said:


> Funny, I was just wondering about that-- their tails, I mean. So they really don't have much tail naturally?
> 
> Anyway, I cannot resist a Frenchie butt. (Wait. Does that sound a bit weird?) hwell:





Nope, they are born with varying lengths but no docking takes place. Murph has just a tuft of hair and a nub but it looks almost like he has literally no tail (you have to feel to tell the nub is there, I think it's just one vertebrae?). I prefer no tail to just a tiny nub. Not a fan of the cork screws that some frenchies have.


And not at all. But you are talking to the girl who has this on her car...


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## NewYorkDogue

meggels said:


> And not at all. But you are talking to the girl who has this on her car...


LOL^^^ Okay, *whew*... it's not just me


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## B3r_&_Ray

lol I love that bumper sticker!!! 

I was reading up on those boxer ears another person linked cannot remember who linked it Sako's owner I'm sure without looking hmm any-who, I was reading it and realized that my girl has the ears for a cropped looked because no matter how long I massage them and put them into the correct natural way the still poke out a little at the top and she was bred that way.... 

I also love Frenchie's booties lol My pughuahua Daisy has a pug butt and I love squeezing it hahaha she love it getting scratched but if you touch her tail she flips, I think she's sensative to it being curly lol


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## rannmiller

twoisplenty said:


> I would love to see a stacked picture of your puppy. Just because she comes from show parents does not guarantee she is of show quality.
> 
> With your girl being a flashy fawn she will not be dismissed as a plain black masked would. Natural ears are all through our show rings and if you have a judge that actually follows the standard, it should not matter if they are cropped or natural as the head stays the same regardless. Which ever route you decide to go, you will be taping as fly away ears are not appealing in the ring either.


I love everything about this post. And I agree, could we maybe see a stacked pic of your girl?


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## twoisplenty

B3r_&_Ray said:


> lol I love that bumper sticker!!!
> 
> I was reading up on those boxer ears another person linked cannot remember who linked it Sako's owner I'm sure without looking hmm any-who, I was reading it and realized that my girl has the ears for a cropped looked because no matter how long I massage them and put them into the correct natural way the still poke out a little at the top and she was bred that way....


This doesnt make any sense at all. At 10 weeks old her ears have not set, this is usually done after puppy teeth have fallen out and adult teeth have come in. Thats why the most important time to tape is during the teething process.


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## B3r_&_Ray

twoisplenty said:


> This doesnt make any sense at all. At 10 weeks old her ears have not set, this is usually done after puppy teeth have fallen out and adult teeth have come in. Thats why the most important time to tape is during the teething process.


I thought she was in her teething phase she is constantly chewing on everything! and I keep checking her mouth to see if she has lost anything and nope still all there. And pics will come soon.


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## CavePaws

Just my .02$

Spaying and Neutering are so common and MAJOR surgeries. ear cropping? Not really as major as abdominal surgery...I honestly feel bad about having my dogs speutered...I couldn't really imagine putting my dog through an unnecessary surgical procedure. For the people who show breeds that do better off with cropped ears, well I feel like they have a fairly valid reason to crop. However, unless I bought a dog who was already cropped, I would not be sending a dog in for surgery myself to have it done.


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## Caty M

I feel that putting a dog under anaesthesia is risky no matter the reason, and I wouldn't risk it for a procedure that isn't necessary. If a dog, no matter how gorgeous he/she is, doesn't have correct ears in the first place, should they be shown? The point of a dog winning a championship is that he conforms to the standard, and aren't ears part of that?

I will always have natural dogs and all of mine (sheltie, Italian greyhound, basset) are all shown naturally.


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## hmbutler

Caty M said:


> If a dog, no matter how gorgeous he/she is, doesn't have correct ears in the first place, should they be shown?


THIS!! If a dog is to be shown, they should be unaltered in any way (aside from grooming). That way the dog is being judged on exactly how it was born, not how it was cosmetically enhanced to look nicer...


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## Janet At Nutro

I love the natural look of my Great Danes,
big floppy ears and all!


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## bernadettelevis

Caty M said:


> If a dog, no matter how gorgeous he/she is, doesn't have correct ears in the first place, should they be shown?.


This is exactly what i was thinking!


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## DaneMama

The problem is cropped ears are IN the standard for "head breeds" like Danes, Boxers and Dobies. The way to get cropping to stop is to remove cropped ears from the standard. Europe is a million miles ahead of us making it illegal. I don't think that would ever happen here....


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## kady05

DaneMama said:


> The problem is cropped ears are IN the standard for "head breeds" like Danes, Boxers and Dobies. The way to get cropping to stop is to remove cropped ears from the standard. Europe is a million miles ahead of us making it illegal. I don't think that would ever happen here....


Boxers did change the AKC standard a few years ago to add in a section for natural ears, but I think they're the only breed that has done so. There is an all out WAR in the Rottie world right now over docking.. my friend owns one and phew, there are some major arguments going on regarding it right now!

To be honest, I truly hope it doesn't become illegal here. NOT because I'm a "crop or go home" kind of person, but because I don't like being told what I can/can't do with my animals (short of neglect obviously). Whose to say if they make cropping illegal that after that, they try to make other things illegal, like I don't know, training collars and such? Seems like it'd be opening the door for the government to get even more involved, and I'm not a fan of that. 

Then you also have to take into consideration that if it does become illegal, people are still going to do it anyway. Not referring to the people who show conformation, but the BYB types who will end up doing it themselves since a vet won't (not that that doesn't happen currently, but it'll happen much more often if it becomes illegal, IMO) and then only the dogs suffer.


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## Caty M

What is a "head breed"?


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## DaneMama

The Dane standard has changed to include natural eared dogs, I believe its been that way for a while now. 

"Head breeds" are dogs that are especially known to have conformation really centered on the shape of the head. Which is usually why head breeds are also very commonly cropped...so that the droopy ears don't "hide" the head. Danes I think are the most notorious head breed, as well as boxers.


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## kady05

DaneMama said:


> The Dane standard has changed to include natural eared dogs, I believe its been that way for a while now.
> 
> "Head breeds" are dogs that are especially known to have conformation really centered on the shape of the head. Which is usually why head breeds are also very commonly cropped...so that the droopy ears don't "hide" the head. Danes I think are the most notorious head breed, as well as boxers.


Ah okay, didn't know they had changed it.

Dobes are another big one.


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## DaneMama

Here's the ear standard for Danes: 


_AKC Standard
Ears - shall be high set, medium in size and of moderate thickness, folded forward close to the cheek. The top line of the folded ear should be level with the skull. If cropped, the ear length is in proportion to the size of the head and the ears are carried uniformly erect.

Discussion

High-set ears, be they cropped or natural, highlight the outline of the Dane head and create the desired alert appearance. Low-set cropped ears detract from the smooth lines of the skull, and the low-set natural ear gives the skull a round, hound-like appearance. Lack of erectile ability in the base of the natural ear will also give a hound look and should be faulted. Although it is desired that the cropped ear be of a length to properly balance the head and be carried uniformly erect, so long as the set of the ears is correct the dog with too short or too long an ear or with imperfect carriage should not be unduly faulted for this man-made error. There should be no preference between cropped and natural ears, either being correct._












Great Dane Club of America Ears.


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## xellil

This stuff is hilarious. Wouldn't want a dog with a lack of erectile ability in the ears!


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## Caty M

Does anyone on here have a picture of a proper dane ear? I adore Akasha's ears but they don't seem like the standard, LOL.


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## DaneMama




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## minnieme

Akasha's ears SHOULD be the standard... :wink:


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## hmbutler

DaneMama said:


> Great Dane Club of America Ears.


Uncropped ear looks so much better IMO! So sweet and soft and cuddly.. who would've thought an ear could be those things? haha


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## Caty M

It's pretty rare here to see a cropped dane and I have never seen a cropped boxer outside a dog show.. but dobermans are super common to see cropped. I'll admit I do like the cropped look.. just not worth it imo.

Nothing bothers me more than to see people spend money on something like a crop or a super expensive "micro toy teacup etc etc" puppy..then not be able to afford good food or proper vet care if a problem arises.

A show crop (initial crop ONLY) is over $1000 here.


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## DaneMama

minnieme said:


> Akasha's ears SHOULD be the standard... :wink:


I agree...SO much more personality! Show standard ears are boring :biggrin:


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## BoxerParty

xellil said:


> This stuff is hilarious. Wouldn't want a dog with a lack of erectile ability in the ears!


Lila has serious erectile dysfunction in her ears.  It's actually a good thing that she wasn't cropped, because she has the FLOPPIEST ears of all time. Plus, she's strictly a pet puppy - no reason to cut parts of my dog off for purely aesthetic reasons.


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## lauren43

I personally think Danes and Boxers look silly with cropped ears. Every once in a while i see a crop I like. 

I have to say though, IMO dobies are harder to recognize without the cropped tail and ears..still I don't agree with ear cropping...

I saw a gorgeous purebred Rottie the other day with a tail, they (well this one at least) had a long mildly furry tail which makes me question why they do in fact crop rotties at all. Though to be honest I do have a soft spot for the nub.

Finally while I do agree that spaying is most likely more invasive than an ear crop (neuter is a bit more questionable).. Spaying and neutering is a far more common procedure in the pet world and IMO almost a necessity for your average dog owner. Whereas ear cropping is not a necessity, it's just a preferance.


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## Tobi

> Hi there, let's first start off by asking what kind of dog you have?
> Are their ears cropped or natural?
> How do you feel about cropping ears?


<---------See signature.
Natural ears
Not for, not against, to each their own.

I have to say, i love the "look" of a nice crop, i think that Sako's ears are beautiful, and they really work with him, having said that, i wouldn't personally have a dog cropped, i just feel it's painful, and not completely necessary anymore. To each their own really. (Wasn't directed towards Kady, just a great example of a great crop). 

I tend to be more attracted to erect eared dogs, i'm not sure why but i always have been.

I saw a gorgeous purebred Rottie the other day with a tail, they (well this one at least) had a long mildly furry tail which makes me question why they do in fact crop rotties at all. Though to be honest I do have a soft spot for the nub.



lauren43 said:


> I also don't believe that having ears upright, or floppy bears any difference in ear infection rates, or debris getting into the ears, Tobi hasn't ever had anything lodged in his ear, in fact, he's had one minor ear infection, and has TONS of control of how erect his ears are.


Pretty sure iirc, it was for carting? but i've heard before that it was for hunting as well, soooo probably purely speculative, but i'd honestly thing carting because you wouldn't want a tail getting hung up in something maybe?


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## Unosmom

I love my floppy eared dog, they are so velvety and soft, I can just sit there and stroke Uno's ears, its so relaxing


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## CoverTune

lauren43 said:


> I
> I saw a gorgeous purebred Rottie the other day with a tail, they (well this one at least) had a long mildly furry tail which makes me question why they do in fact crop rotties at all. Though to be honest I do have a soft spot for the nub.


Rottie's were originally bred to be carting dogs, so, like draught horses, they docked their tails so they wouldn't interfere with the harness and cart.


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## B3r_&_Ray

CoverTune said:


> Rottie's were originally bred to be carting dogs, so, like draught horses, they docked their tails so they wouldn't interfere with the harness and cart.


Hmm, didn't know that. I love learning new things from some one, because people absorb different information than others


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## frogdog

B3r_&_Ray said:


> Not trying to heat anyone's temper cuz I know when someone's mind is set on something it's hard and some what impossible to change their mind just how someone was brought up and raised on how they think. I was brought up and raised to think that it's not cruel but some times unnecessary but let me ask you this....
> What do you think about piercings and tattoos on humans? Is that cruel and unnecessary? Yes unnecessary but cruel? All basically cosmetic even ear piercings. Call me cru-ella De Ville lol when I say this but I don't see the difference... I know it's painful for them but I'm right there with Kady05 about having them spayed/neutered, that's also painful and for males it changes the way the act. Not as lively well it was for my rott my friend owns. Just wasn't his playful self anymore not for sure if that was due to him getting older and more obedience classes or because his balls/testosterone was gone.


Not trying to be ugly but *r**eally.*..no difference. How about the freedom to choose? I don't believe dogs have this right...it's by owner's choice/decision.



NewYorkDogue said:


> Funny, I was just wondering about that-- their tails, I mean. So they really don't have much tail naturally?
> 
> Anyway, I cannot resist a Frenchie butt. (Wait. Does that sound a bit weird?) hwell:


Au naturel...ears and tail. No worries...we love that butt too...so cute.



Unosmom said:


> I love my floppy eared dog, they are so velvety and soft, I can just sit there and stroke Uno's ears, its so relaxing


Uno has the shiniest prettiest coat that I ever did see. So HANDSOME...love 'em.

Oh, the original post...against ear cropping. I mean, how could you not love those Dane and Boxer ears...just spectacular. In my opinion, adds so much to their character.


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## BoxerParty

frogdog said:


> Oh, the original post...against ear cropping. I mean, how could you not love those Dane and Boxer ears...just spectacular. In my opinion, adds so much to their character.


Totally agree. I can't imagine these gorgeous faces without their sweet floppy ears!


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## bridget246

You ought to see the GSD forums when people get a pup with floppy ears. The things they would do to try to get them up is crazy. For the longest time I thought Bridgets ears were not going to be up so I figured she just wouldn't be that type of show dog. Then one day they slowly went up... one ear at a time. It was pretty nice to see them flopping around. Some frown upon it but it really gave Bridget more character. A part me was secretly hoping that they might stay like that.


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## leilaquinn

I don,t like cropped ears, theylook like crappy craft projects to me. I think some show dogs (sako) look good, but i like natural ears better.p


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## eternalstudent

lauren43 said:


> I personally think Danes and Boxers look silly with cropped ears. Every once in a while i see a crop I like.
> 
> I have to say though, IMO dobies are harder to recognize without the cropped tail and ears..still I don't agree with ear cropping...
> 
> I saw a gorgeous purebred Rottie the other day with a tail, they (well this one at least) had a long mildly furry tail which makes me question why they do in fact crop rotties at all. Though to be honest I do have a soft spot for the nub.
> 
> Finally while I do agree that spaying is most likely more invasive than an ear crop (neuter is a bit more questionable).. Spaying and neutering is a far more common procedure in the pet world and IMO almost a necessity for your average dog owner. Whereas ear cropping is not a necessity, it's just a preferance.



They continue dock the rottie's to make them look bigger. It squares out their back and gives the impression of bulk. The reason they started docking them however, was to use them as guard dogs, and because they have a good solid tail it is easy to pull break and control the dog. 

Personally I love my rotti's tail and see no reason to dock them. For the rotti / dobe I think it should be banned only because it would stop people buying them just to look nasty mean dogs. 

However, its personal choice do it properly - look after your dog then it should not be banned.

For the OP would I suggest doing it. No, showing is a time consuming affair and you have to have a real love of it for it to be worth while and that did not come across in your posts. (just my tuppence worth).

The kennel clubs really do need to sort out there standard and bring in natural dogs - i mean you can not show a dog which has been neutered or altered that way so whats the difference between that and cosmetic surgery. The skill of your vet should does not indicate breeding!!!!

Dogs in the uk can not be shown if docked or cropped if they were born after the 2007 ban. Even if you bring them from the US or Ireland they are not eligible. I am patiently waiting for a natural rotti to win Crufts but at the moment the judges are still going with docked dogs :-(


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## Serenity

I have 2 Pits and both of them have their ears cropped. It is a matter of preferance. While some people do disagree with the choice its up to YOU. The only time I'm against it is for fighting dogs or if the dogs is no longer a puppy. However... ANYONE who tells you its not humane is wrong. A vet is ver careful and controls any discomfort. I have been told by a vet as well that its easier on a dog then tail cropping. But again its your choice and yours alone.


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## Cliffdog

I have a Doberman who has natural ears. My next Doberman will be cropped most likely. The only thing I hate about Doberman crops is that most people get that stupid long crop that just ruins the look of the dog in my opinion. (I think even failed crops or "crop and flops" look better than the long crops!) When I get my next Dobe it will have a short or medium crop, depending on which my vet and I feels will fit his head shape:








































It's all a matter of owner preference but I feel that the short/medium, more rounded-off type crop gives the Doberman a strong, defined profile and enhances the look of the dog, as opposed to the very long crop which just makes them look goofy. And of course the short crops require little to no posting, which is good for dog AND owner. Now, it's important to mention that I don't plan to do Confo with my Dobe... getting a short crop would be conformation suicide with a Doberman in this day and age, just like leaving the ears natural would be.

I can't speak for Boxers or Danes as I'm not "into" those breeds, but as for bully breeds...
ADBA-style APBT, I probably would not crop. Historically game-bred dogs usually (albeit not always) had natural ears and I feel that's the better look on them. But I would take the breeder's opinion into account as well.
AmStaffs (including UKC "APBTs"), I would crop. Leaving natural would be, as mentioned with the Dobe, conformation suicide. I also just feel that these dogs look better with a crop. It fits their thicker body type and more square head shape.
AmBullies... crop for sure. I've only seen one natural-eared Bully in my life that I can recall, and while I'm quite fond of that dog and think she's beautiful, AmBullies just don't look "right" to me without cropped ears.


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## Cliffdog

Oh yeah... I also really like CAOs and if I were to get one I would crop. Like so: http://www.medzhalala.cz/DarstanAlladin/06.jpg


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## Cliffdog

B3r_&_Ray said:


> With everyone saying she wouldn't do well in shows I wanna keep them natural and prove they can do well in shows hahahahaha


Now, keep in mind that I don't know much about Boxers. They may be more tolerant of floppy ears in the Boxer breed and so it may be wrong to make this comparison. But you should know that in the history of the Doberman breed there have only been three natural-eared AKC Champions. (It may be four now, but still... loooow number.) If the Boxer breed ring is anything like the Dobe's, it's best to crop.


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## nikkiluvsu15

To each their own. 

I'm, personally, not against cropping (or docking for that matter) - as long as it is done right and by a respectful vet who knows what they are doing!


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## malluver1005

To the OP, IMO cropping is for cosmetics. Why anesthetize your dog to make it look pretty?


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## nikkiluvsu15

I 100% respect people's decision to NOT like cropping/docking - do I agree with them? No, but that is my opinion. Do I respect their opinion? Yes! Just wish some would respect MY decision to "support" (or not see it as the most evil thing EVER) cropping/docking. 

Note - I did *not* say agree with the opinion, I said *respect* it.


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## catahoulamom

I dunno, I just can't wrap my head around altering a dog specifically for looks. I don't respect it, but I don't think owners that have their dogs cropped are evil/horrible owners either. I just think its selfish and shallow, but again that is only my opinion and not meant to offend anybody. There is no way that ear cropping benefits the dog.


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## B3r_&_Ray

I respect others with their opinion as well and I do agree cropping and docking unless for a medical reason is purely cosmetic and they don't need to be done and I'm man enough to admit to wanting my girl to look nice; not saying that she won't look nice with natural ears, but cropping is a nice look on boxers as well as other certain breeds. Yes, putting your dog under is a risk especially brachycephalic dogs. It's a risk no matter what whether it be with people or dogs or whatever.
With the comment being said about owners being horrible or something like that because they want their dogs to have a nice crop for showmanship it just makes me think back to beauty pageants and those little girls with all the stupid crap they put their children through. Fake tanning, fake teeth, make-up, fake hair, shoving tons of sugar down their throat to keep them awake through out the entire show..... now I think that's screwed up. But putting a dog under (reminding yes it is VERY risky) to crop their ear it really isn't more pain than putting them under for neutering or whatnot. Now again I'm not a dog never had it done so I can't for surely say it doesn't hurt to an extent but they recover nicely. It's not like they do it while they're awake and those people who do need to be stopped!!! Same with docking of the tails and removing of the dew claws. It should never be done by a non-professional. I have decided to keep my girl's ears natural but if I get a boy I'm definitely getting his ears cropped. Girls look better with natural and boys look nice with a good crop. I just need to do more research on the vet and want to be with the vet long enough to get to know and stuff.

Let me just say this I'm not trying to rage at anything I was just putting my opinion in as well. I hope no one reads this in a mean way. Some times I can read a text wrong and think the person that wrote it had a nasty attitude which I don't. I was just throwing how I feel and my way of thinking out there. So yea no hard feelings


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## Cliffdog

Once I asked someone why they chose to alter their dog for cosmetics (cropping and docking). They responded, "Life is too short to live with an ugly dog." I don't particularly agree but there you have it... You have a right to crop (or dock) your own dog as you please.


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## B3r_&_Ray

Okay well that's stupid lol well for me it is, at least I have a reason for why I would do it. If you think a dog is ugly why get that dog lol I think all dogs are beautiful! Well I take that back cuz I personally don't like chinese crested. That's just my personal opinion some one else could think they are the best and most good looking dogs of all time lol just not in my taste. And I also like DOGS! not canine accessories (tiny toy teacups things lol) I like 'em big so I can play with them and walk them and stuff


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## Caty M

If you admit it's super risky to put a dog under I still don't get why you'd risk losing your pet, but each to their own I guess.


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## CorgiPaws

I disagree with putting dog's lives at risk for cosmetic purposes. Enough said.


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## minnieme

Cliffdog said:


> Once I asked someone why they chose to alter their dog for cosmetics (cropping and docking). They responded, *"Life is too short to live with an ugly dog."* I don't particularly agree but there you have it... You have a right to crop (or dock) your own dog as you please.


That makes me so sad for their dog.


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## xellil

Cliffdog said:


> Once I asked someone why they chose to alter their dog for cosmetics (cropping and docking). They responded, "Life is too short to live with an ugly dog." I don't particularly agree but there you have it... You have a right to crop (or dock) your own dog as you please.


Wow. That's incredibly pathetic.


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## malluver1005

minnieme said:


> That makes me so sad for their dog.


Makes you wonder what else they must do.


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## hmbutler

Cliffdog said:


> Once I asked someone why they chose to alter their dog for cosmetics (cropping and docking). They responded, *"Life is too short to live with an ugly dog."* I don't particularly agree but there you have it... You have a right to crop (or dock) your own dog as you please.


The poor dog was probably thinking "life is too short to live with an ugly, dead beat master"...


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