# Problems Feeding Kibble and Raw At The Same Time???



## Nootherids (Sep 22, 2011)

Hey guys, new user here and I'm sorry for not searching for this but the combination of "raw" and "kibble" are all over this forum.

My Dog:
9 years old beautiful Beagle by the name "Nyla" 









History:
After having putrid breath (it literally smelled like a rotting rat was in her stomach) and a history of very sensitive digestive problems I decided to look into raw meat and bones using turkey necks and chicken necks and lo and behold it cleaned up her teeth beautifully, wiped away the bad breath, diminished vomit spells, and had her pooping solid poop consistently. The problem came when I tried giving her beef and pork (big mistake). She had vomit and diarrhea that were basically pools of blood (undigested meats), plus she couldn't break through the bones so she wasn't getting any bone intake to solidify her stool. She went into weight levels of anorexia. Then we moved as a family to a new state in which I could not find find either turkey necks or chicken necks anywhere!

My wife freaked out when Nyla lost so much weight and put her on all natural canned dog food to get her back to healthy weight, which of course worked, but also brought back the bad stools, dirty teeth, and horrid breath. We then moved her back to all natural limited ingredient kibble to maintain her weight. I finally found the turkey and chicken necks and put her back on them and they have cleared up her teeth and breath but the stool is not very consistent.

My Question:
I think that her stool problems are made worse by the kibble. My wife is not ok with removing kibble from her diet cause she is afraid she will become skin and bones again. Right now we feed her kibble in the morning and turkey/chicken necks in the evening and she is maintaining a healthy weight. Question is, does mixing kibble and raw meaty bones pose any undesirable complications in a dog's digestive system???


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

Some dogs can handle it, and some can't. The two digest at differant rates which can be difficult for their digestion.


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## eternalstudent (Jul 22, 2010)

I would say that its a good bet that the kibble/raw mix is going to play havoc with her insides. 

Obviously in this section of the forum we are all very much pro raw lol. So my advice would be to switch totally to raw feeding. I would hazard that going from chicken and turkey necks to beef is a huge jump. I know before i started feeding red meats we went through boneless chicken meals first.

If I were you I would switch her to full raw starting with bone in chicken and see how it goes. This way she will still be getting enough meat to keep her weight up and it should be enough bone to keep her stools good and solid.

It takes a lot to starve a dog as the are amazingly adaptable so you will have plenty of time even if she does lose a little weight to correct in the long run. Once it all settles down I'm sure your DH will see the benefits )


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## KC23 (Nov 17, 2010)

I feed all raw now, but fed part raw/part kibble for a while when I didn't have a lot of freezer space. I fed 3 dogs this way and didn't have any problems. I know others who do this, and it seems to work for them too. Since the raw digested faster, I fed that as the morning meal and fed the kibble for dinner. I can honestly say that my one male dog who normally had a problem with frequent loose stools (prior to raw) did much better on the raw/kibble combo just from getting some bone into his diet. If someone isn't ready or willing to commit to all raw, and if their dog does ok on the kibble they are feeding it, I personally think offering some RMBs is better than offering no RMBs--as long the dog tolerates it well.


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## Belles Mom (Jun 24, 2011)

I feed kibble in some meals and raw (semi-raw, Honest Kitchen and 'regular raw in some) in others, and have no problem with it. I do try and make the kibble meal at least 12 hours before the raw meal. My male has a hard time keeping weight on if I do not do kibble meals as a part of his diet.


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## kennyk (Sep 17, 2011)

I'm also doing Half and Half with Max and doing great! He's getting Raw in the AM, Raw OR Kibble for lunch, and Kibble for PM. He poops 2 or 3 times a day and I can definitely see the difference between raw poop (black and solid) and kibble poop (green/brown semi-solid).


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## Herzo (Feb 5, 2011)

I did both for a little while without a problem. I went all raw about a month and a half ago. I would say if it's not going well I think you should try all raw but do it like on Danemamas PMR sight on bottom of her page and rawfeddogs on bottom of his page, as in start over and do it right. Tell your wife if it doesn't work you will go back to kibble, but I think you need to give it a proper try if your dog has had issues with stomach. I just don't think now that you are having a problem you should mess around trying to clear it up doing both. Go with all PMR for 2 weeks and if it's not better well then say you gave it a good try.

You should fast her for at least 24 hours then start with chicken backs if you can find them. I always give a heavy bone meal next if I have given a new protein. It seems to be working for me. Good luck.


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## CavePaws (Jan 25, 2011)

I did this for a while (half kibble half raw) my dogs did fine on the combo but i only did the combination as i have 5 dogs at my house and needed space to store a couple hundred pounds of food a month. For your beagle though this wouldn't be an issue. I advise switching to bone in chicken only then adding boneless every other meal. My anorexic looking dog actually gained a good amount of weight on only raw.


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## Unosmom (May 3, 2009)

I've been feeding 1/2 raw 1/2 kibble/canned on and off for the last 3 years with no issues. Same way you do, kibble in the morning, raw at night, never together though.


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## Nootherids (Sep 22, 2011)

Good points guys. The last time she went anorexic was our first go on raw. After reading a lot here I can see that the progress of going from kibble to full raw needs to be slow so her system adjusts. And red meat was definitely way too strong for her. I'm glad to see that other people have tried it too. Some worked, some didn't so like most other foods I guess it's about trial and error.

I need to find chicken backs again cause the only turkey necks I've found have way more meat than bone. Now that we finally bought a stand up freezer I can stock up though. Problem is that finding sources around the DC Metro isn't too easy. Beef and pork is easily found but poultry is a bit more elusive, especially turkey.

I'm also wondering if Green Tripe would help her with the digestive problems she's always had. Does anybody have any experience with that? I can't really find much information about that at all in this forum.


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## cavalcadegsmd (Feb 1, 2010)

I am a Beagle person and would like to point out a few breed specific things. Beagles are well known for their overall health and their iron clad guts. I am sure that your problems should resolve easily. The number of Beagles thriving on junky foods is astronomical. Food sensitivity and allergies are rare in the breed. 

I learned the hard way that Beagles are much more at risk for parasites and foreign body ingestion- this is because they live with their noses on the ground and will put the most bizarre stuff in their mouths. If you use monthly heart worm prentative that is supposed to get all intestinal worms, don't trust that it is. If you google the growth of resistance to the drugs for worms you will be astonished. My Beags get Panacur every six weeks which also gets giardia as well as worms. My other dogs get wormed quarterly.

The problems you mentioned also would lead me to give her some probiotics. I have found that naturesfarmacy.com has the best bang for the buck IMO. It cost me less than 30 buck a year. 

You don't have to give bones with raw by itself or combined with kibble. You have to correct the calcium phosphorus ratio- this can be done with calcium tablets or powders (NOT bone meal) Coral Calcium is reputed to have several trace elements that have health benefits and I see a difference in my dogs with it. There are people that feel bones run a risk of contaminants (heavy metals especially) and intestinal blockage- my holistic vet is one of them. My dogs get bones about 2-3 times a month for recreational and teeth cleaning purposes- and I have sparkling clean teeth on all 6 in my pack. I am hoping to find enough antlers this deer season to get rid of bones all together. 

My vet instructed me that if I was going to do both raw and kibble NOT to do one type at one feeding and the other the next. He said that raw goes through the system quicker and can push the dry through to quickly. I feed my dogs about 60 % raw 40% dry in the same feeding. I avoid chicken because it is harder to get a hold of high quality (not factory farmed) meat. I use fairly lean beef, fatty pork, cooked eggs whites and raw egg yolks. I have done this for over 5 years, and have had one non routine vet bill for an impaction doe to bones. My dogs look fabulous.


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

cavalcadegsmd said:


> I am a Beagle person and would like to point out a few breed specific things. Beagles are well known for their overall health and their iron clad guts. I am sure that your problems should resolve easily. The number of Beagles thriving on junky foods is astronomical. Food sensitivity and allergies are rare in the breed.
> 
> I learned the hard way that Beagles are much more at risk for parasites and foreign body ingestion- this is because they live with their noses on the ground and will put the most bizarre stuff in their mouths. If you use monthly heart worm prentative that is supposed to get all intestinal worms, don't trust that it is. If you google the growth of resistance to the drugs for worms you will be astonished. My Beags get Panacur every six weeks which also gets giardia as well as worms. My other dogs get wormed quarterly.
> 
> ...


Have you introduced your self in the intro thread??:smile:

Im sure we all would love to hear more about you in your own thread!:wink:


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## cavalcadegsmd (Feb 1, 2010)

Scarlett O- 

I am sorry I don't meant to be doing anything out of line. I am obviously new, and don't know what you mean by my own thread. Was I supposed to do this before participating in a conversation?


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## Herzo (Feb 5, 2011)

Oh no it's the forum police. No I don't think you have done anything out of line I think Scarlett O' just meant that we would like to hear more about you and your hounds. I don't think some forums have an Introduction place. I have never found anything that said you had to before posting. I see it says you joined this forum in Feb 2010 is this a typo or have you just never posted?


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## Nootherids (Sep 22, 2011)

cavalcadegsmd said:


> I am sorry I don't meant to be doing anything out of line. I am obviously new, and don't know what you mean by my own thread. Was I supposed to do this before participating in a conversation?


Haha, no my friend, I don't think that is a rule to post.  She was probably saying that because this is in the Raw Feed section and from your post it sounds like you're more geared to kibble + chew bones. I personally don't condemn anybody for their choice on how to feed their dog so long as they actually care enough to educate themselves and make some sort of educated decision and they don't overfeed their dogs to cause a health hazard.

Plus I welcome your post about Beagle specifics. Unfortunately, my little one had these digestive problems almost from birth. Finding the dog food that works best for her has been a never ending challenge for 9 years. And surprisingly, she's allergic to oatmeal, the one supposedly hypoallergenic item for dogs. Go figure.

But the info on the worms and parasites and Panacur and Probiotics is useful. I must admit that I haven't researched that very much. Every time I take her to the vet they say that my Beagle is in perfect condition. Good weight and size, no parasites, clean ears, etc. So that's maybe why I haven't looked into other options as much. When I started feeding her raw meat and bones everything made a 180 turn for the better but she's still sensitive. So I will look into those things you mentioned  BTW...from a Beagle specific standpoint, if you have any information on clearing and preventing the eye/tear stains please send me a private message. Thx! 

I think I'll start a separate thread to ask about people's experience with Green Tripe.


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

Herzo said:


> Oh no it's the forum police. No I don't think you have done anything out of line I think Scarlett O' just meant *that we would like to hear more about you and your hounds. *I don't think some forums have an Introduction place. I have never found anything that said you had to before posting. I see it says you joined this forum in Feb 2010 is this a typo or have you just never posted?


This is exactly what I meant!:wink: We just enjoy knowing where someone is coming from, when they post!:smile:


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## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

I just wanted to add that I fed kibble/raw/premade raw/cooked/canned/dehydrated to Mollie for a couple of years before switching over to PMR. Poor Mol, she'd get all sorts of food at each meal, where ever my head was that day - obviously she never had a problem either.


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## Nootherids (Sep 22, 2011)

I must admit that all the feedback in this thread is very useful. My previous research was pointing to the possibility that combining bones and kibble regularly increases the chances of blockage in their digestive tract. But I can see that many people have tried it with success. So like most everything else so far it appears that each dog is unique and we just have to be were of what works best for each.


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