# Ok im freaking out!! (Danemama I hope you see this!)



## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

I just got the call from the vet...Rhett tested possitave for whipworm. She wants to put him on meds for 3 days then like in 3 weeks then 3 months or something like that. She said they are ones that are really hard to get rid of. She said we need to bring L and B in to get them checked out, but that they wouldn't need a fecal, just blood work for heartworms and then they would go on the meds too. She also wants to put Rhett right onto interceptor(sp?) Ughhhh.....

I don't want my baby on a ton of meds!! And I'm at work...and driving all over Seattle...and I'm freaking out!!

Is what she said correct?? I'm trying to go as natural as possible....what do I do??


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## chowder (Sep 7, 2008)

According to the Merck Veterinary Manual, you need to treat them once a month for 3 months to make sure you get the entire life cycle. Then just keep the dog on any of the heartworm preventatives because they also prevent most intestinal worms. 

Merck Veterinary Manual

You also need to keep the poo picked up in the yard. I have never had a dog test positive for whips, and it wasn't very common when I was working in Vermont. We rarely saw any there. Down here, most people have their dogs on year round HW preventative so we rarely saw any down here, either.

It's not the end of the world! The baby will be okay! There's lots of info you can google about it if you want. Mostly they just say worm him a few times then use HW preventative as a routine preventative.


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

I don't know of a single problem that freaking out solved. :smle: Whipworms are not the end of the world. They are just a pain in the butt so to speak.  They are not that big of deal to get rid of. I'm not sure about the exact meds and stuff, thats Natalie's department. It's her job to know everything I don't. :biggrin: Between the two of us, we know everything ever known by mankind. :biggrin:


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

i'm going to venture an educated guess here, but i think whips are going to require medications....

not sure, but i don't think there is a holistic treatment for this.

and, if i'm not mistaken...which i could well be...all of your dogs need to be treated....


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

RawFedDogs said:


> I don't know of a single problem that freaking out solved. :smle: Whipworms are not the end of the world. They are just a pain in the butt so to speak.  They are not that big of deal to get rid of. I'm not sure about the exact meds and stuff, thats Natalie's department. It's her job to know everything I don't. :biggrin: Between the two of us, we know everything ever known by mankind. :biggrin:


What am I?! Chopped liver?!
:frown:


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

chowder said:


> According to the Merck Veterinary Manual, you need to treat them once a month for 3 months to make sure you get the entire life cycle. Then just keep the dog on any of the heartworm preventatives because they also prevent most intestinal worms.
> 
> Merck Veterinary Manual
> 
> ...


Thank you for that link!:smile: I was at work(ie. Walking around down town Seattle) so didn't google anything...but now that I'm home, once I cuddle with the boys, I shall be doing just that!:smile:



RawFedDogs said:


> I don't know of a single problem that freaking out solved. :smle: Whipworms are not the end of the world. They are just a pain in the butt so to speak.  They are not that big of deal to get rid of. I'm not sure about the exact meds and stuff, thats Natalie's department. It's her job to know everything I don't. :biggrin: Between the two of us, we know everything ever known by mankind. :biggrin:


I know it doesn't....but I've NEVER had an animal test possitave for ANYTHING!!!! So I was having a major freak out moment! But thank you for bringing me back to the ground(and giving me something to chuckel about)



magicre said:


> i'm going to venture an educated guess here, but i think whips are going to require medications....
> 
> not sure, but i don't think there is a holistic treatment for this.
> 
> and, if i'm not mistaken...which i could well be...all of your dogs need to be treated....


I think you are totally right...and it wasn't the meds for the wips that I am really questioning...but I don't want to just start giving him hw meds without testing first. As I have always been told that if you give the meds to a hw+ dog it can kill them. 



PuppyPaws said:


> What am I?! Chopped liver?!
> :frown:


Not to me!!:biggrin: (sooo...what do you say??:smile


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## minnieme (Jul 6, 2011)

He'll likely be on Panacur. Minnie handled it quite well..... and we tested her again for weeks, and just one dosage seems to have done the trick (unlikely for most dogs). It is VERY tricky to get rid of; but don't fret -- the worms themselves are more of a pain than anything -- minnie didn't seem distressed at all. The three day medication sucks, but I don't know of any holistic remedies either.  Just pick up poo right away, don't let them get into other poo, and don't let them drink water from any puddles. 

The worms can get in the soil (if the poo isn't picked up right away) and can live there for a long time....and there's not much you can do about it. If you fear for your yard, I've heard the best thing to do is spread a black tarp over the most "soiled" parts of the yard and hope for a hot day. Not much will kill the worms....except for high, high temps.


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

minnieme said:


> He'll likely be on Panacur. Minnie handled it quite well..... and we tested her again for weeks, and just one dosage seems to have done the trick (unlikely for most dogs). It is VERY tricky to get rid of; but don't fret -- the worms themselves are more of a pain than anything -- minnie didn't seem distressed at all. The three day medication sucks, but I don't know of any holistic remedies either.  Just pick up poo right away, don't let them get into other poo, and don't let them drink water from any puddles.
> 
> The worms can get in the soil (if the poo isn't picked up right away) and can live there for a long time....and there's not much you can do about it. If you fear for your yard, I've heard the best thing to do is spread a black tarp over the most "soiled" parts of the yard and hope for a hot day. Not much will kill the worms....except for high, high temps.


Thanks!:smile:

That is pretty much EXACTLY what Im reading, and what his breeder just told me. 

They only have a 12'-14' area to go in...and either Jesse or I clean it out every evening after work...but we HAVE been slacking a little since they all started having TINY poops on raw...so we shall start up cleaning it every day!:wink: 

I suppose my biggest thing is the mention of the HW meds...I just dont like having them on them....and I dont like the vet staff at this clinic anyways...so we are investigating others!


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

Where does whipworm come from? I thought it was more prevalent in puppies...............


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

whiteleo said:


> Where does whipworm come from? I thought it was more prevalent in puppies...............


From what Im reading it comes from fecal matter...and they can live in the ground for YEARS!! Freezing does NOT kill them! So...it seems like all of my boys will need to be on the meds for the entirety of us living here...or for a year...which ever is longer....and up to the point of having 2-3 clean fecals where ever else we move....but that is just from my reading the past couple of hours...I might be wrong!


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## schtuffy (May 17, 2010)

PuppyPaws said:


> What am I?! Chopped liver?!
> :frown:


Chopped liver is a delicacy in my house


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

schtuffy said:


> Chopped liver is a delicacy in my house


HEHE, Jess(Dude and Buck's Mom) and I where just talking that we cant really use that any more as a unliked thing!LOL Now we have to say "What am I kibble?!?" LOL :rofl: :lol: :laugh:


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

Im sorry I'm so late! We decided to take a day road trip up to Canada and data roaming charges are $25 per MB! Or I would have seen this sooner. 

Unfortunately there's nothing you can do but medicate Rhett. Panacure is the drug you'll most likely get for it. It's one dose per day for three days. Then I'd recheck a stool sample one month past the last dose. No reason to treat him again if it was taken care of on the first round. From my experience whipworms aren't that hard to get rid of. Typically the first round does the job. But you do have to keep the yard cleaned up well. And I would test your other dogs because even stepping in poo and them licking their feet can be enough to spread it. 

Let us know how it goes! Rhett will be just fine :thumb:


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

DaneMama said:


> Im sorry I'm so late! We decided to take a day road trip up to Canada and data roaming charges are $25 per MB! Or I would have seen this sooner.
> 
> Unfortunately there's nothing you can do but medicate Rhett. Panacure is the drug you'll most likely get for it. It's one dose per day for three days. Then I'd recheck a stool sample one month past the last dose. No reason to treat him again if it was taken care of on the first round. From my experience whipworms aren't that hard to get rid of. Typically the first round does the job. But you do have to keep the yard cleaned up well. And I would test your other dogs because even stepping in poo and them licking their feet can be enough to spread it.
> 
> Let us know how it goes! Rhett will be just fine :thumb:


THANK YOU!
:hug:
Ok...thank you!!!

Alright...I plan on getting a new vet anyways...but I will do as you said with Rhett and then test the other 2. 


On the HW part...am I right to want to only give him meds if I know that he tests negative for them...or is it like they said that at under 6 months old he is young enough for the meds to hurt him if he does have them?


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## doggiedad (Jan 23, 2011)

that's impressive. ROTFL.



RawFedDogs said:


> I don't know of a single problem that freaking out solved. :smle: Whipworms are not the end of the world. They are just a pain in the butt so to speak.  They are not that big of deal to get rid of. I'm not sure about the exact meds and stuff, thats Natalie's department.
> 
> >>>> It's her job to know everything I don't. :biggrin: Between the two of us, we know everything ever known by mankind. :biggrin<<<<<


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

schtuffy said:


> Chopped liver is a delicacy in my house


our house too...except i'm the only one who eats it...course, i have to make it too....


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

magicre said:


> our house too...except i'm the only one who eats it...course, i have to make it too....


Hmmmm....NUMMY liver!!! (However gizzards are so far the hardest for me to feed to the boys...cause they are SOOO darn YUMMY!!LOL:laugh


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## doggiedad (Jan 23, 2011)

sometimes i take the liver and gizzards and put them
in the blender with water. after it's blended i pour
the mix into the ice trays. once it's frozen i'll give 
my dog a cube. i trust your dogs
are going to be fine.



Scarlett_O' said:


> Hmmmm....NUMMY liver!!! (However gizzards are so far the hardest for me to feed to the boys...cause they are SOOO darn YUMMY!!LOL:laugh


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

doggiedad said:


> sometimes i take the liver and gizzards and put them
> in the blender with water. after it's blended i pour
> the mix into the ice trays. once it's frozen i'll give
> my dog a cube. i trust your dogs
> are going to be fine.


HAHA...Oh my boys LOVE them...so do I!LOL (That was what I was saying!:tongue


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

As far as HW goes, I do minimal prevention. I give heartguard once every other month. And even though he's younger he's still at risk. When a puppy is born October or later, they don't need preventative until the following spring and also don't need to be tested because the chances they have been exposed are very very slim.


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

DaneMama said:


> As far as HW goes, I do minimal prevention. I give heartguard once every other month. And even though he's younger he's still at risk. When a puppy is born October or later, they don't need preventative until the following spring and also don't need to be tested because the chances they have been exposed are very very slim.


Ok, I also plan on doing a minimal prevention plan, I do know however that there have been a few recent cases of HW here in Wa, so I will probably look into testing/treating the boys...so he was born in February in Missouri...so he SHOULD be tested, yes?


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## DaneMama (Jun 27, 2008)

I would absolutely test him before starting prevention....


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

DaneMama said:


> I would absolutely test him before starting prevention....


THANK YOU!!

That is what I thought, and what my breeder said...but the vet tech that I talked to earlier was adamant that it wasn't needed...it confused me from everything that Ive always been told!


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## Ania's Mommy (Feb 8, 2009)

RE: heartworm - YES! Test for it since he lived out of state. But we have been told (by multiple vets) that HW is just not an issue here in western WA. We've never taken any precautionary measures with Ania. So I guess there IS something good about this area...


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

Ania's Mommy said:


> RE: heartworm - YES! Test for it since he lived out of state. But we have been told (by multiple vets) that HW is just not an issue here in western WA. We've never taken any precautionary measures with Ania. So I guess there IS something good about this area...


He should have already been tested, I know that....I just, bad I know, but I had a hard time taking him to the vet since putting Beau down!:frown: 

And yes, I had always heard the same thing then on a local horse forum I'm on there has been talk of local Wa state only dog's having tested positive within the past year or so....but then again with this weird weather I wouldn't be surprised!!


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

Scarlett_O' said:


> Hmmmm....NUMMY liver!!! (However gizzards are so far the hardest for me to feed to the boys...cause they are SOOO darn YUMMY!!LOL:laugh


my dogs don't get chicken gizzards, heart or livers.....that's for me. num. num.

am i missing something about heart worm?

we don't ever give our dogs anything for heart worm....

the western side of the mountains is supposed to be heartworm free, isn't it?

and the cases they did find weren't enough to warrant making every dog take hw preventatives.....


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## monkeys23 (Dec 8, 2010)

Yeah that is why I chose Interceptor for hw preventative, because it covers other stuff. They eat all kinds of gross stuff out in the pasture so better to be safe!
They are only on it for six months in summer, so I feel the preventative benefits far outweigh the costs. HW isn't common here, but I'd rather not take the chance.


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## SerenityFL (Sep 28, 2010)

magicre said:


> my dogs don't get chicken gizzards, heart or livers.....that's for me. num. num.
> 
> am i missing something about heart worm?
> 
> ...


If you look at the maps on this site:

U.S. Regional Map of Lyme disease, Canine Ehrlichiosis, Heartworm, Anaplasma

You'll see that WA state is low for everything. I never gave my dog any heart worm medication in WA state. It wasn't even a regularly discussed topic. And Lyme disease was something that happened, "over there" on the other side of the union. 

I do have to worry about Lyme disease but heartworm...not so worried about it here anymore...especially because we have so many cold months...I am looking forward to them...die horrible ticks! Die 8 legged demon spawn! (This includes spiders...eeeeeeeeeesh..oh and they better NOT come in to my house! I have 7 cats, they will KILL you, spiders! I'm warning you! STAY! OUT! Ask those Everglades spiders how it was when they lost family members that were 10 times bigger than you can dream of being...ask! You can't! They're still crying! HAHAHAHAHHAAHA!!!!) 

Er....

What was I saying? Oh yah, WA seems to be low on everything...great place to have a dog.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

SerenityFL said:


> If you look at the maps on this site:
> 
> U.S. Regional Map of Lyme disease, Canine Ehrlichiosis, Heartworm, Anaplasma
> 
> ...


LOL

it's one of the reasons i moved here...


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

OKKK...BIG update!!

Ok so I called the same vet to set up a time to come pick up his meds, I kind of let her take the lead to see what she was going to say.
She said that I would need to bring Leo and Brody in for a check up before they could give me meds for them(which of course I knew) and that they wanted to check them for heart worms "since Rhett has whipworms." Which made ZERO sense to me!!! :question: And then she said that they would, at that time, prescribe Rhett HW meds and B/L if needed...I told her that Rhett was NOT going to be given any HW meds without being tested and stated, for the 4th time to her, that he was from Mosiorri...he NEEDED to be tested! She kept saying that he is under 6 months old so wouldnt need to be tested, just given the meds...and that the doctor would, at that point, want to give him his rabies as well.

I told her I was at work and had to go. 

At this point I was worked up...and didnt want to deal with her any more.

I decided to call a vet who, at the time that I moved here in '09, was TOTALLY full and not taking any new patients, but I had seen(I drive past them every day to work) that they have a new vet as well.

She was SUPER friendly, said that they WHERE accepting a limited amount of new patients and that they would be more then happy to take over my boy's health care. I told her an outline of what had happened at the other vet with the WW, leaving out the part about the HW...she said that they would get the records faxed to them and be able to use those...and would get all 3 boys meds for the WW without needing to do another fecal...just check ups for the older 2.

At that point I asked about HW, she said that for the 2 adults that they should be totally fine since they where both born and raised here in Western Washington...then I asked about Rhett, making sure that I stated that he was from Mo and was a February baby, I also told her that the other vet wanted to just treat for HW without testing which I was NOT comfortable with...she quickly said "Well we would NEVER just treat without testing, and yes he should get tested!"

She was SUPER excited to hear that I had 2 Border Collies as she just got a BC puppy last week!:smile:

She also said that as for the raw feeding, as long as they where all healthy nutrition wise they are our dogs and we can choose to feed them how ever we like!:smile:

So I am VERY excited to go in on Saturday(YAY they are open early and that means that Daddy can go with us!:biggrin

Just thought I would update everyone! and thank you all for your support!:smile:


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## tem_sat (Jun 20, 2010)

FYI regarding Interceptor. I give Interceptor religiously all year due to my Doxie having been HW positive and also due to living in South Texas. I always get my vet to approve a prescription and order a 12-month supply from Drs. Foster Smith online. I have never had an issue and it has saved me about 50% as compared to buying Interceptor directly from my vet.


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

tem_sat said:


> FYI regarding Interceptor. I give Interceptor religiously all year due to my Doxie having been HW positive and also due to living in South Texas. I always get my vet to approve a prescription and order a 12-month supply from Drs. Foster Smith online. I have never had an issue and it has saved me about 50% as compared to buying Interceptor directly from my vet.


Thank you, that is good to know! I have no problem giving HW meds to the boys if they need them and are HW Neg but I will NOT just put the poison in their systems without knowing if they have them or not!


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## tem_sat (Jun 20, 2010)

Scarlett_O' said:


> Thank you, that is good to know! I have no problem giving HW meds to the boys if they need them and are HW Neg but I will NOT just put the poison in their systems without knowing if they have them or not!


I totally agree with everything you are doing and you are lucky to live in WA with such a low HW risk. I just meant to let you know that you may wish to get your prescription filled online instead of picking it up at the vet!


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

tem_sat said:


> I totally agree with everything you are doing and you are lucky to live in WA with such a low HW risk. I just meant to let you know that you may wish to get your prescription filled online instead of picking it up at the vet!


Yes thank you!:smile: I forgot that you could do that with HW meds!:smile: I know that there IS a chance that he has them....since he came from Mo, but none of his breeder's dogs have them....so Im just hoping to pull out of it lucky!!


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## tem_sat (Jun 20, 2010)

Not to worry, I am sure he will pass the test just fine!


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

i'm sure he'll test negative abi, 'cause he be a warsh-ing-ton dog now.....


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## Ania's Mommy (Feb 8, 2009)

magicre said:


> i'm sure he'll test negative abi, 'cause he be a warsh-ing-ton dog now.....


Ha! You can tell the WA natives, because they all pronounce it like that. I pronounce it SUC-vil.

Abi - I'm sure your baby will be fine. And if he's not, bring him to me & I'll rehabilitate him for ya.


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

magicre said:


> i'm sure he'll test negative abi, 'cause he be a warsh-ing-ton dog now.....





Ania's Mommy said:


> Ha! You can tell the WA natives, because they all pronounce it like that. I pronounce it SUC-vil.
> 
> Abi - I'm sure your baby will be fine. And if he's not, bring him to me & I'll rehabilitate him for ya.


Thank you both!:smile: ya know I pronounce it "wash-in-ton"(all quick like!lol)

And ugh....I dunna want to even think about why I'll need to do if he tests HW+. 




And of course....just to remind me how much I do love him, I now have a HUGE fat lip thanks to him being excited to go to bed!!!! **rolls eyes**


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

YAY...ok we went to the new vet...everyone was VERY nice!! The boys where all 3 VERY comfortable!:smile: 

Leo weighs 47.4lbs
Brody is 19.2lbs(YAY under 20lbs!:-D)
And Rhett is up to 38.2lbs!!LOL


Anyways...they got them all 3 WW meds, and they had to take Rhett to the back to take his blood...which made me EXTREMELY nervous..but they let me walk him back(VERY nice room, BTW, not at all like where I worked!:smile I handed him off to a VERY nice vet tech(the one I had talked to on the phone who just got a BC pup!) gave her a hand full of the elk heart treats I had made last night and reminded her that they are the ONLY ones he is suppose to have!:smile:

He was a GREAT boy she said...kept looking for me, but did what she asked!:happy: The vet saw me in the back with him and then came into the room with the other two and teased me about needing to check my heart rate as well!LOL :lol:



Anyways...I also just got the call and my baby boy tested NEGATIVE for heartworms!!!:dance: :happy: :becky:

So now just treat the WW and we are golden!!:happy:

Oh and for Leo, they also believe that it is just bug bites, he said that I can just keep treating with benadryl and if it continues to bring him back in!(I figure if it stays around for longer then a month Leo will go in by him self and get it totally checked out!:smile


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

i'm glad he passed and you're okay and all it is is whip worms.....yay...

bet you're feeling better!


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

magicre said:


> i'm glad he passed and you're okay and all it is is whip worms.....yay...
> 
> bet you're feeling better!


Thank you Re!!:smile:

YES I feel SOOOO much better!!!:happy: :thumb:

However they are all 3 so funny though, we where there for MAYBE 45 minutes...and they are ALL 3 crashed all around the house as if it was a hard day!LOL (Only Rhett even got poked at all!HAHA)


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## chowder (Sep 7, 2008)

Just a quick note because I haven't seen it mentioned in this thread. When you get them their heartworm preventatives, make sure you get them the Interceptor brand and not Heartgard or any of the ivermectin based products. Since they are collie breeds they run the risk of having allergies to ivermectin and a host of other drugs. Since you aren't as used to dealing with heartworm out there, it might not be as familiar a reaction as on the east coast. 

It's actually not just collies anymore since Rocky is allergic to Heartgard and HAS to be on Interceptor only. It's being found in Boxers, Shepherds, Chows, and assorted other dogs (MDRI Gene mutation). 

Drug Reactions in Collies


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

chowder said:


> Just a quick note because I haven't seen it mentioned in this thread. When you get them their heartworm preventatives, make sure you get them the Interceptor brand and not Heartgard or any of the ivermectin based products. Since they are collie breeds they run the risk of having allergies to ivermectin and a host of other drugs. Since you aren't as used to dealing with heartworm out there, it might be as familiar a reaction as on the east coast.
> 
> It's actually not just collies anymore since Rocky is allergic to Heartgard and HAS to be on Interceptor only. It's being found in Boxers, Shepherds, Chows, and assorted other dogs (MDRI Gene mutation).
> 
> Drug Reactions in Collies


Oh yes, thank you...I knew that from when I started looking into Border Collies!:smile:

I will be looking farther into meds and see what I want to do, since our area isnt one that it known for HWs....but that is another subject!LOL :tongue1:


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## chowder (Sep 7, 2008)

Scarlett_O' said:


> Oh yes, thank you...I knew that from when I started looking into Border Collies!:smile:
> 
> I will be looking farther into meds and see what I want to do, since our area isnt one that it known for HWs....but that is another subject!LOL :tongue1:


I'm glad you already knew about that. The site I linked has great information about the other medications that they can react to also, in addition to the ivermectin. The ace promazine and morphine reaction is what killed my avatar chow when he was given it after knee surgery. I have since gotten Rocky a special MDRI medic alert tag that he wears along with his regular name tag and I don't take any chances on any of the medications they list.


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