# Thinking About Raw...



## SaharaNight Boxers (Jun 28, 2011)

I have a 15 month old Boxer that is currently on Blue Buffalo Large Breed Adult Chicken & Brown Rice. I have started really looking at raw, and I have to admit I like it, and I was wondering what you people who feed raw, feed. I would want to feed a prepared raw diet and I have found Instinct Raw to be impressing. Also, he is going to stud possibly in Spring and were wondering if Raw could interfere in any way with that. I am completely new to this, so please excuse my questions.

Also, I live in Southwestern, PA around Pittsburgh, so I need to be able to buy it around here.

And how much it costs to buy Premade.

Thank You,
SaharaNight Boxers


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## Unosmom (May 3, 2009)

Most folks on here feed MRP (prey model raw) which is not premade, but you get various meats/organs/bones and balance it yourself, which is pretty easy to do. I'm not a fan of premade since its very expensive and often times it has a large percentage of veggies which I find to be unnecessary. 

I'm still in the process of learning, so I'm sure others can chime in to help you with question #2. 

good luck


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## SaharaNight Boxers (Jun 28, 2011)

Thank You! Also, do any of you who feed raw, supplement with anything extra?


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## 3Musketeers (Nov 4, 2010)

Only Salmon/Fish Oil for the Omega 3's, unless you're feeding all grass-fed/pasture raised meats which already have appropriate O3 levels. No supplementation really, not needed.


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## SaharaNight Boxers (Jun 28, 2011)

3Musketeers said:


> Only Salmon/Fish Oil for the Omega 3's, unless you're feeding all grass-fed/pasture raised meats which already have appropriate O3 levels. No supplementation really, not needed.


Thanks! And do you make your own Raw diet?


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

We have collies and a sheltie that show and breed. We feed raw and because mine don't do well on salmon oil I use coconut oil. That's it. Thye get a decent variety of protein, chicken is our staple, they also get turkey, lamb, emu, fish, beef and rabbit. They get meat, organ and bone. My girls have better pregnancies, easier labor and the pups are incredible. I don't know what you mean by would feeding raw be an issue in breeding - in what way? Also I would not feed premade raw because I want to know we exactly what my dogs are eating - that is one of the reasons I went to raw. You want to check some of the files and read past posts. Making your own raw diet is as easier as feeding some ribs, chicken quarters, part of a pork roast. Much easier less expensive than pre made raw. I do have a grinder for when my pups need their first food and then if one of my dogs is traveling I grind my own and make into patties and freeze. Anyone is willing to feed premade patties.


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## 3Musketeers (Nov 4, 2010)

Yep, most of us here do. The general guideline is to feed 2% of adult body weight, and for the meals (now don't get too stuck in numbers) is 80% meat, 10% bone, and 10% organs (mainly liver, then kidney). So for example if you buy a chicken leg-quarter and feed that for the first week, you're already feeding some bone and a little bit of organ.
But it's always better to start on the safe safe with more bone, less organ/fat.

There's a good starting guide here: How to Get Started | Prey Model Raw


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## SaharaNight Boxers (Jun 28, 2011)

Thank You to both of you! And as for breeding I mean any missed litters, or lower quality semen evaluations.

Also, where do you buy your meat?


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

On the contrary - the dogs both boys and girls seem to have renewed vigor. Litters are great but it's the pups. Mom's milk must be richer because they are incredible once They wean onto raw I seem incredible mucle tone and condition. Beautiful satisfied pups. I go through our co-op, have a local butcher where I can lamb lung and trachea, grocery stores have good special, cash n carry I get pork roast and ribs from, and I also buy from a meat processor and get very good prices there. You have to visit and make a lot of phone calls but I rarely pay over a dollar for anything. For me feeding this way is cheaper than top quality kibble. Even my 11 year old male is looking and acting like a youngster, my seven year old girl delivered a beautiful litter of 7 pups. Hope this helps. You might also check yahoo groups for a raw feeding co-op in your area.


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## SaharaNight Boxers (Jun 28, 2011)

Liz said:


> On the contrary - the dogs both boys and girls seem to have renewed vigor. Litters are great but it's the pups. Mom's milk must be richer because they are incredible once They wean onto raw I seem incredible mucle tone and condition. Beautiful satisfied pups. I go through our co-op, have a local butcher where I can lamb lung and trachea, grocery stores have good special, cash n carry I get pork roast and ribs from, and I also buy from a meat processor and get very good prices there. You have to visit and make a lot of phone calls but I rarely pay over a dollar for anything. For me feeding this way is cheaper than top quality kibble. Even my 11 year old male is looking and acting like a youngster, my seven year old girl delivered a beautiful litter of 7 pups. Hope this helps. You might also check yahoo groups for a raw feeding co-op in your area.


Wow! That's amazing!

I found this place, anyone's opinion? Hare Today, Gone Tommorow


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## Scarlett_O' (May 19, 2011)

Hare Today is too expensive for my blood!

I LOVE buying from local farmers/grocers!! That is for 2 reasons, I know where the meat came from and I have yet to spend over $1.10/lbs on any of the meats Ive gotten, and that is how Im hoping to keep it!:happy: (Even better when I get hits from my craigslist/kijiji/freecycle adds!:biggrin1: :thumb

And as to switching to raw DO IT!!! As long as you go a nice steady pace you wont be sorry!! I know Im not!


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

Premade raw is very little more than raw kibble. Its 1,000 times better for your dog but it almost always still had inappropriate ingredients in it. Prey model raw is definantly the way to go. It looks daunting when you first look at it but believe me it's very little more difficult than feeding kibble once you get used to it in a month or so. It will be benefiicial to every aspect of your dog's health. In no manner whatsoever will it be inferior to any brand of kibble.

For my suggestions on switching to feeding raw, follow the link in my sig. Come back and ask any questions you may have (and you will have some). :smile:


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## SaharaNight Boxers (Jun 28, 2011)

RawFedDogs said:


> Premade raw is very little more than raw kibble. Its 1,000 times better for your dog but it almost always still had inappropriate ingredients in it. Prey model raw is definantly the way to go. It looks daunting when you first look at it but believe me it's very little more difficult than feeding kibble once you get used to it in a month or so. It will be benefiicial to every aspect of your dog's health. In no manner whatsoever will it be inferior to any brand of kibble.
> 
> For my suggestions on switching to feeding raw, follow the link in my sig. Come back and ask any questions you may have (and you will have some). :smile:


I saw and read that link. We have a few butchers around here but nothing much, it's the suburbs. We have a buffalo farm about an hour north, but that's about it.


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## meggels (May 30, 2010)

I've ordered from Hare Today and had a great experience. You are pretty close to them so your shipping wouldn't be bad at all (that's what did it for me).

I really like their selections, it's easy as can be to just go click what you want, check out, and you're done. And since there's no veggies, it's pretty great  You can also choose how coarse you want it to be ground up which is nice.


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

Hare Today has nice stuff. Feeding as many as I do - 5 permanent dogs, and a litter here or there it would be prohibitive to feed premade or Hare Today. If I were you I would call and go to that buffalo farm and ask for the offal and any trim, ribs, organs, heart, brain, head, anything almost. Check your yelloe pages for meat processors/wholesalers sometimes they will sell to individuals. Check for small meat processors, game processors, chicken farms, etc. It does take some leg work at first but once you have a plan in place it is easy and great for the dogs and you. Most grocery stores around here will order chicken back or frames for me by the case if I talk to the butcher. Do you have a restaraunt supply? Cash n Carry or Costco - they will order large amounts for you also - although to begin with you will start with chicken Backs or frames then probably to quarters. How many dogs are you thinking of feeding this way?


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## SaharaNight Boxers (Jun 28, 2011)

Liz said:


> How many dogs are you thinking of feeding this way?


Only 1, he's a 70 pound Boxer, so he should eat around 2 lbs a day if I'm correct.

And we have a Costco.

I'd LOVE to start out PMR, BUT if you had to choose a Pre Made (No Veggies or Fruits) what would it be?

And do you just use a mini fridge to store your meat?


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## schtuffy (May 17, 2010)

I store our meat in our freezer, since the dog eats human grade meat, it's all stuff I would eat myself. No need for separation :smile: Most people who do PMR are lucky enough to have separate freezers for extra storage (I wish I did!). Since I don't have space, I just buy from the grocery store. Maybe one day that will change, but I also have a small dog. Talk to the people behind the meat counter. Sometimes they can give you special prices and order bulk shipments for you too.

I used to supplement PMR with some Primal brand premade raw. I think it was one of the best, but they recently had a recall and if I remember correctly they are going to start heat pastueurizing their food. To me, that just defeats the purpose of raw, because you are destroying all the enzymes. Also, I think you are better off buying grocery store meat than doing premade for a dog that size. Primal around where I live is about $20-40 for a 4lb a bag, depending on which meat variety it is. That's anywhere from $5-10 a pound! If you are lucky, you can find RMBs for less than a dollar a pound. Go for real meat!


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## Liz (Sep 27, 2010)

Sahara Night I want to be honest. Everytime there seems to be issues with switching a dog of any age to "raw" it comes out that "raw" is actually a pre packaged food, or butcher "dog food" blend. After a year of readding and listening and research I would never switch to other than true raw. It seem to be less problematic, easier to adjust according to your dogs needs. With a seventy pound dog I would begin feeding at 2% which is 1 pound 4 ounces, and if need be adjust up slowly. That's about 10 pounds per week. Just defrost a couple days meat in a box in your fridge. I have one large upright freezer. I take the next day's food out late at night and defrost in a plastic bin and feed in the morning. It is still usually half frozen, in a warmer climate I would defrost int he fridge. I also feed about 6 - 7 pounds per day. It really is alot easier than you think - habit mostly.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

SaharaNight Boxers said:


> Wow! That's amazing!
> 
> I found this place, anyone's opinion? Hare Today, Gone Tommorow


it depends on your price point....hare today is experiencing what many shippers are experiencing and that is higher shipping costs some of which make it prohibitive to buy from them..although you are in PA so your shipping should not be so outrageous.

their products are very good...but depending on where you are, there should be butchers and farmer markets in abundance....

i used to live in philly and we'd go to lancaster county amish country when we wanted quality butchering at great prices...

my two dogs are not bred...they are my companion heart dogs...one of which is 11 1/2....they are both in incredible shape...the other is four....their teeth are brilliant, their bodies are muscular, they are healthy....and energetic....

we don't give supplements because our dogs eat fresh fish and lots of red meat, and fowl ..... a little bone and organs....they also get rich muscle meat like heart and lots of variety to make up for the fact that they aren't eating the entire animal....

welcome to the forum.....

p.s. we have two and a half freezers, of which the humans get one drawer....


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## Khan (Jan 17, 2010)

I was looking at premade raw at first, then I did the math, a growing puppy, that will finish at about 120#!! I'm pretty sure there is not a spot on the form when filing for bankruptcy that says, Had to spend all my money on Dog Food!! LOL!! 
I was struggling with the daunting task of feeding bones vs. ground, how on earth would I prepare a balanced meal vs.thawing a premade patty, and about a million more questions/concerns on can "This" actually be true. Then one day in January 2010 I got up the courage to give Khan his first meal. To my surprise this Kibble vacuum stood over his bowl while very methodically chewing his first leg quarter. I haven't looked back since. At first I was buying meat at the grocery store (scour the reduced sections for your beef/pork protein choices) costco, or cash n carry. I now go right to a wholesaler, I go in with another person (whom I converted) and we buy roughly 800+# (400#/ea)between the two of us. We buy chicken, pork and beef and I spend less than 1.00/lb for everything combined!! I have also added an upright freezer to the garage to go with the fridge/freezer combo we already had in there!
I also have come to enjoy preparing their food supply. With all 3 dogs eating this way I have 3 different portion sizes, so each dog has at least a 30 day supply at any given time of each protein. I spend a couple hours pre-bagging; but I love going to the freezer, and seeing a stock pile of THIS kind of "Pre Made" I keep about 5 days of daily meals in the fridge in the house, and when I need to re-stock, I take my shopping bag to the garage to fill it up with their daily meals!
I know it all sounds like a lot of work; but I promise it is SOOOOO worth it. Seeing your dog get so excited over meal time, instead of picking at the "high end kibble" amazing. As far as the nutritionally balance thing goes...Well I figure I seem to be able to feed myself and my husband without any problems. We are healthy, we exercise, and on no occasion do I ever remember thinking McDonalds would be a better daily meal then anything I could prepare!!!


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## SaharaNight Boxers (Jun 28, 2011)

After I did the math too...we're going PMR. We don't have many butchers but I did find this.

Oma's Pride Raw Pet Food

50 cents a pound! There's 2 other breeders that are using it so it might form a co-op. The nearest distributor is over 4 hours away!

I am worried now about buying from Costco because on a Raw Feeding List someone had a dog die from eating their meat. It had some supergerm related to MRSA.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

hi. i read that same list about the dog who died from costco's free range organic chicken, i think it was cascade something.

i have to tell you. having read the entire story, i have my doubts. if it were the food, it would not have taken ten hours for the dog to start vomiting. the brain and body are pretty smart and when an intruder tries to invade, vomiting or diarrhea begin asap, to rid the body of the toxin or toxins.

that a necropsy report was never talked about on the list even though the question was raised as to whether one had been done or not....i am leery about blaming a food for the death of this dog.

plus, i have spoken to costco representatives and they know nothing of this incident, which allegedly killed other dogs around the country and not just here. 

it seems to me that costco would know and would have a comment if all of these dogs died...because the dog owners...as passionate as they are....would write letters, make phone calls....

i could very well be wrong, but having followed this news and googled the life out of it....i could not find a single newspaper report, or announcement from either company.....nothing.

and costco isn't like that. not after all the years i've shopped there...which is not to put a halo on costco..but they are pretty conscientious about their foods...


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## SaharaNight Boxers (Jun 28, 2011)

magicre said:


> hi. i read that same list about the dog who died from costco's free range organic chicken, i think it was cascade something.
> 
> i have to tell you. having read the entire story, i have my doubts. if it were the food, it would not have taken ten hours for the dog to start vomiting. the brain and body are pretty smart and when an intruder tries to invade, vomiting or diarrhea begin asap, to rid the body of the toxin or toxins.
> 
> ...


Thank You! I feel a lot better about shopping there now! And there prices are soo good.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

SaharaNight Boxers said:


> Thank You! I feel a lot better about shopping there now! And there prices are soo good.


i'm glad you feel better.....i guess you're entering a world of rumour and innuendo and it's hard to know what to believe and what to take with a grain of salt.

read nutrition labels.....organic is great, but if you can't afford it, try to keep your chicken under 80 mg. per serving...same with pork..and it does say so on the back....fda insists upon it...unless it's in the butcher section...then it might not....

costco's products are generally marked....foster farms is safe if you can't afford or don't want to afford organic.


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