# Does anyone feed Pinnacle?



## Unosmom (May 3, 2009)

I bought a bag of peak protein and Uno loved it, which says a lot, since he turns up his nose at most kibble. I also emailed the company and they send me some coupons to try other formulas, the duck and trout ones for allergic dogs, Uno will eat it ok, he seems to like chicken formulas better, so I ordered a bag of chicken and oats online, hopefully he'll like it.

Has anyone been feeding this brand long term, what is your opinion of this food?


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## Guest (May 12, 2009)

My dogs like Pinnacle. They have tried the peak protein formula and the chicken & oats formula. I think it is pretty good food, but, for me, a bit too pricey. PetCo sells it.


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## wags (Jan 31, 2009)

Breeder's Choice Pinnacle Peak Protein Holistic Puppy & Adult Dry - Healthy Dog Foods?

I don't always agree with this reviewer of foods, but I believe pinnacle is made by menu foods:frown: who owns Breeders choice which had all the recalls. They may have improved now but I just don't trust the company menu that is!


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## chowder (Sep 7, 2008)

wags said:


> Breeder's Choice Pinnacle Peak Protein Holistic Puppy & Adult Dry - Healthy Dog Foods?
> 
> I don't always agree with this reviewer of foods, but I believe pinnacle is made by menu foods:frown: who owns Breeders choice which had all the recalls. They may have improved now but I just don't trust the company menu that is!


Breeders Choice is owned and developed by Central Garden and Pet Company. They also make Avoderm dog food. They are manufactured at Menu plants, who also manufacture Natura (Innova), Wellness, Wysong, Nutro, Newmans Own, Natures Variety, Natures Logic, Natural Life, Evolve, and others but I got tired of looking them up! You can look up any food you want at Pet Food information, manufacturers, products, ingredients, cat, dog, pet food. and see where and how your pet food is made. It may change and you can always verify it with the company, Menu is just a processing facility for a lot of the companies where they submit their formulas to be canned. 
I have used Pinnacle and my dogs liked it okay but I only tried the dry once on a dog with allergies. They did really like the canned trout and thought it was wonderful but it smelled really strong and gave them the runs.


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## Winniesdad (Nov 25, 2008)

wags said:


> Breeder's Choice Pinnacle Peak Protein Holistic Puppy & Adult Dry - Healthy Dog Foods?
> 
> I don't always agree with this reviewer of foods, but I believe pinnacle is made by menu foods:frown: who owns Breeders choice which had all the recalls. They may have improved now but I just don't trust the company menu that is!


I have no experience with Pinnacle food but I do think the source your using is questionable. She has a very arbitrary grading system, she's seems to have a different opinion on the same food every time I check back, sometimes the review and the numerical rating don't seem to match (i.e she says nice things then gives it a toxic rating), she never states her qualifications, she makes vague comments and she uses wikipedia as reference.


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## Unosmom (May 3, 2009)

That website is iffy:



> Healthy dog foods do not include needless grains and other pet health damaging ingredients.


In the perfect world we would all like to feed our dogs homecooked meals or raw, but some of us, dont have the time or money to do so. Theres nothing wrong with using grains if a dog has no trouble digesting them. 



> Potatoes - just a filler, much like the use of beet pulp.


Again.. what? potato is a starch, not a filler. 



> Grapes and raisins can lead to kidney failure in dogs. As little as a single serving of raisins can kill them. And the effects are cumulative, which means that even if a dog eats just one or two grapes or raisins regularly, the toxin that builds in his system will eventually kill him.


There arent any grapes or raisins in this kibble.



> Salmon Oil - is used to encourge pets to eat a product they normally would not eat.


Whats so bad about that?



> Bromelain, Papain - From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia - Along with papain, bromelain is one of the most popular substances to use for meat tenderizing.


Bromelain and papain are natural enzymes that help to break down the food, as well as reduce inflamation.l



> Fermentation Products - From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia - Sugars are the common substrate of fermentation, and typical examples of fermentation products are ethanol, lactic acid, and hydrogen. However, more exotic compounds can be produced by fermentation, such as butyric acid and acetone. Yeast carries out fermentation in the production of ethanol in beers, wines and other alcoholic drinks, along with the production of large quantities of carbon dioxide.


Fermanation product in the kibble is refering to probiotics, again, used to aid digestion. 

I have no idea where this person is getting this info from, but obviosly trying to twist it. I sense an anti kibble fanatic. If you look at any premium kibbles, 99% will have the same ingridients. 

I'll keep feeding this food because my dog likes the taste and havent had any stomach issues with it.


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

I think you need to do more research on the physiology of canines. You have some misconceptions.



Unosmom said:


> In the perfect world we would all like to feed our dogs homecooked meals or raw, but some of us, dont have the time or money to do so.


It takes me about an hour or two a month extra to feed raw and it costs me less to feed raw than a good kibble.



> Theres nothing wrong with using grains if a dog has no trouble digesting them.


The problem is that there is no dog that can digest grains. Their bodies aren't designed that way.



> Again.. what? potato is a starch, not a filler.


Again, canines have no dietary need for starch, therefore it's a filler. It's used to stick those little nuggets together. They would be powder without either starch or grains. 



> "_Salmon Oil - is used to encourge pets to eat a product they normally would not eat._"
> Whats so bad about that?


It means they have to add salmon oil to get the dogs to actually eat that stuff. The greatest percentage of ingredients wouldn't be in a dog's diet if not forced by humans.



> Fermanation product in the kibble is refering to probiotics, again, used to aid digestion.


Fermentation, although necessary to digest carbs does not naturally take place in the dog's digestive tract. The canine digestive tract is too short for fermentation to take place.



> I have no idea where this person is getting this info from, but obviosly trying to twist it. I sense an anti kibble fanatic. If you look at any premium kibbles, 99% will have the same ingridients.


I see it as pointing out facts. 99% of premium kibbles are just like all the other kibbles. Made from refuse from human food processing plants.



> I'll keep feeding this food because my dog likes the taste and havent had any stomach issues with it.


It's already been pointed out why your dog likes the taste. BTW: Most dogs like the taste of feces also. Stomach issues aren't always as apparent as they should be.


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## Unosmom (May 3, 2009)

Ok, here we go again. I've done my share of research and I feel like I know whats best for my dog, if you read any of her posts, that woman/child is obviosly delusional, first she calls the food "toxic" and unsuitable, then comes back and says its the best food on the market, so which one is it? Shes also being sued by Natura for giving out falsified information. 

It comes down to personal choice, my dog is healthy, has ton of energy, bright eyes, soft shiny coat and I will continue to feed him what I feel is best. I've tried feeding raw and I still do couple times a week, along with homecooked, but its not something I want to deal with on regular basis. 

I would like to see your credentials for those statements. I personally go to a holistic veterinarian and nutritionist, she feeds raw herself, but advises that it may not work for every dog. Dogs arent wolves, they've been eating table scraps for hundrends of years. Even though I agree that a diet should be meat based, I have no problem with giving my dog some grains or starches for that matter.


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

Unosmom said:


> Shes also being sued by Natura for giving out falsified information.


I can't comment on the web page to which you are referring. I haven't even read it. I only commented on the less than accurate statements you made. 



> I would like to see your credentials for those statements.


9 years of studying canine nutrition, biology, and ethology. 2 college courses on Canine nutrition and one course on canine denistry. 7 years of feeding a raw diet to 4 dogs and 3 cats. 6 years of helping many many people switch their dogs to a raw diet and solving diatery problems. Talking to and having discussions with the leaders in the field of canine nutrition. Plus 15 years of professionally training dogs.



> I personally go to a holistic veterinarian and nutritionist, she feeds raw herself, but advises that it may not work for every dog.


The word "holistic" in front of a vets name means nothing. There is no requirement for a vet to call herself holistic. She is wrong that a raw diet will not work for every dog. That would be like saying that grass does not work for every cow. Dogs are designed from snout to anus to eat, digest, and eliminate raw meat, bones, and organs from any animal they can catch and kill. Thats not just some dogs, thats all dogs.

If the raw diet doesn't work for a dog, It's the owner's error not the dog's.

What qualifies your vet to call herself as a canine nutritionist? 99% of vets have had ONE course on ANIMAL nutrition during vet school and that is ANIMAL nutrition. Not only dogs but cats, horses, cows, goats, pigs, etc. One course.

Read this: Myths About Raw: Is my vet really qualified to be giving nutritional advice?



> Dogs arent wolves, they've been eating table scraps for hundrends of years.


Actually they are. You would have to ignore many years of scientific research to state otherwise. _"The English word dog, in common usage, refers to the domestic pet dog, Canis lupus familiaris. The species was originally classified as Canis familiaris and Canis familiarus domesticus by Linnaeus in 1758. In 1993, dogs were reclassified as a subspecies of the gray wolf, Canis lupus, by the Smithsonian Institution and the American Society of Mammalogists."_ Dog Breeds

At to what dogs have been eating for hundreds of years is immaterial. They eat what they are forced to eat. They eat it or starve. You can't feed a carnivore an omnivore diet and change him into an omnivore. They are still carnivores through and through.

Read these:
Myths About Raw: Are dogs too far removed from wolves to be fed raw food?
Myths About Raw: Have dogs adapted to cooked diets?
Myths About Raw: Most dogs do well on kibble, so is raw necessary?



> Even though I agree that a diet should be meat based, I have no problem with giving my dog some grains or starches for that matter.


Sure you can feed them and they will eat them if they are in a highly processed form. That doesn't mean that they are able to digest them or that they will derive any nutrition from them.

Try feeding your dog some whole grain corn or green beans, or carrots or any other whole plant "food" and watch his stool the next couple of days.

Check out:
Myths About Raw: Do dogs really need carbohydrates?


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## Unosmom (May 3, 2009)

The vet has been doing this for the past 25 years, she has more credentials then you do. Shes a member of American Academy of Veterinary Nutrition as well as American Veterinary Medical Association.
My dog enjoys eating fruits and vegetables not because I'm "starving" him, but because he likes it. If you know anything about canids, they are oportunistic eaters. Growing up we had a lot of dogs who would go out and eat mushrooms, berries and even apples that have falled off a tree. Was I forcing them to do that to?

The botton line is this section is designed to help people who CHOSE to feed their animals kibble and/or canned. If you want to offer productive advice to people who are interested in feeding raw, theres a designated area for that. 
You basically come off as someone whos trying to push your own opinion down peoples throats and nobody likes that.


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## wags (Jan 31, 2009)

Winniesdad said:


> I have no experience with Pinnacle food but I do think the source your using is questionable. She has a very arbitrary grading system, she's seems to have a different opinion on the same food every time I check back, sometimes the review and the numerical rating don't seem to match (i.e she says nice things then gives it a toxic rating), she never states her qualifications, she makes vague comments and she uses wikipedia as reference.


Yah, thats why I said I don't always agree with this reviewer! Your on the mark here with your description she seems to take things and run with them! I just saw this and wanted to put it out there! Susan Peters seems a bit over the edge for me but there are folk who would agree with her I just choose to look up a bit more into the product than just see her opinion!


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## wags (Jan 31, 2009)

chowder said:


> Breeders Choice is owned and developed by Central Garden and Pet Company. They also make Avoderm dog food. They are manufactured at Menu plants, who also manufacture Natura (Innova), Wellness, Wysong, Nutro, Newmans Own, Natures Variety, Natures Logic, Natural Life, Evolve, and others but I got tired of looking them up! You can look up any food you want at Pet Food information, manufacturers, products, ingredients, cat, dog, pet food. and see where and how your pet food is made. It may change and you can always verify it with the company, Menu is just a processing facility for a lot of the companies where they submit their formulas to be canned.
> I have used Pinnacle and my dogs liked it okay but I only tried the dry once on a dog with allergies. They did really like the canned trout and thought it was wonderful but it smelled really strong and gave them the runs.


I actually have tried their dry pinnacle and wet foods. They had bags for 2.99 trial size so I thought I would try it. My dogs were ok with it only if I mixed it with wet food so they did not really care for the dry alone! But then I found out like you said about avoderm. Now I am wondering about this product. Some say they use the avacodo oil that is safe others say never use avocados UGH! Its madning when looking this up! But I will also go to this sight and find out more that you have suggested Thanks!


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## RawFedDogs (Jun 16, 2008)

Unosmom said:


> The vet has been doing this for the past 25 years, she has more credentials then you do. Shes a member of American Academy of Veterinary Nutrition as well as American Veterinary Medical Association.


Both heavily sponsored by Hill's Corp. Those credentials are not impressive.



> My dog enjoys eating fruits and vegetables not because I'm "starving" him, but because he likes it. If you know anything about canids, they are oportunistic eaters. Growing up we had a lot of dogs who would go out and eat mushrooms, berries and even apples that have falled off a tree. Was I forcing them to do that to?


They can eat what they way to. You misunderstood me. It won't hurt them to eat those things. They are eating berries and apples because of the sweet taste. All I'm saying is that they cannot properly digest them and they can't extract nutrients from them. Nutritionally they may as well be eating sand or cardboard.



> The botton line is this section is designed to help people who CHOSE to feed their animals kibble and/or canned. If you want to offer productive advice to people who are interested in feeding raw, theres a designated area for that.
> You basically come off as someone whos trying to push your own opinion down peoples throats and nobody likes that.


The real bottom line is that I posted in this thread to correct erroneous statements. None of the statements I made are opinion. They are all factual, researched, and referenced.


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## Winniesdad (Nov 25, 2008)

Well lately every thread has degenerated into a why you need to feed to RAW thread. Might be accurate to change the forum name from "Dog Food Chat" to "RAW or GTFO".


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

Winniesdad said:


> Well lately every thread has degenerated into a why you need to feed to RAW thread. Might be accurate to change the forum name from "Dog Food Chat" to "RAW or GTFO".


My thoughts exactly. Raw has its place on the forum, and it's not in every kibble and canned post. I've actually cut my activity in half prety much because the quality of conversation is going down on here. I want a forum where I can go to a kibble section, ask a kibble question, and get a kibble answer. And I'm not even anti-raw, I feed 50% raw.


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## Unosmom (May 3, 2009)

thank God I'm not the only one who feels this way. I've come to conclusion that my dog does best on rotational diet of kibble, raw and homecooked. I have a lot of respect for people who chose to feed raw and I'm happy that it works for them, but I dont want to be guilted into thinking that I'm killing my dog by not feeding him raw or depriving him of a healthy life. You cant tell that by looking at Uno, hes very happy and healthy and has the energy to burn.


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

Unosmom said:


> thank God I'm not the only one who feels this way. I've come to conclusion that my dog does best on rotational diet of kibble, raw and homecooked. I have a lot of respect for people who chose to feed raw and I'm happy that it works for them, but I dont want to be guilted into thinking that I'm killing my dog by not feeding him raw or depriving him of a healthy life. You cant tell that by looking at Uno, hes very happy and healthy and has the energy to burn.


I don't have a single thing against raw, and I definately don't feel guilty for not feeding 100% raw. My dogs are in fantastic shape. Grissom, Champ, and Even Max (my 100% kibble dog) each do fantastic on the diets they're on. 
It's just frustrating to me when I have my mind made up that I want to keep my dogs on some kibble, to come here, ask questions, and get "raw this, raw that" it makes it all entirely irrelevant to what I asked, and therefore a wasted effort to me. I appreciate that there is a raw section. When I am wondering something about the raw portion of my boys' diet, I venture over there and more often than not I get my answer. Unfortunately when I have a kibble question and venture to the kibble section, it's just more raw.


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

What does GTFO mean?


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## Guest (May 26, 2009)

Get the F... out.


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## Gia (May 29, 2009)

I have fed three different Pinnacle formulas with pretty good results. The only one I haven't been able to try (because I can't find it) is the Peak Protien. The Chicken and Oats was the least favorite, the Trout and Potato was well liked, but the Duck and Potato was consistantly devoured by my dogs! Coats, skin, eyes and energy levels were great, but stools were kind of mush, even after over a month on the food. I think Breeder's Choice has good products.


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## Unosmom (May 3, 2009)

I did notice that the poo was a little runnier then when he was on a different brand, his coat is gleaming though and hes as energetic as ever, I think I'll keep this in my rotation but probably switch to peak protein since he did better on it. Its impossible to find here though, I checked all the stores listed on their website and only one store carries small bags of fish and duck formulas, none carry chicken/oat or peak protein. So I ordered it off the k9cuisine because it was on sale.


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## Guest (May 29, 2009)

Petco in my state sells Pinnacle, all formulas. Has anyone been able to find Pinnacle at their Petco?


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## Gia (May 29, 2009)

Yes, there are two PetCo's near me...one is about 25 minutes away and the other is about an hour drive. They both carry Pinnacle, but neither store carries Peak Protien or the Pinnacle cat food, either. The closer store does not sell much of it and I've noticed the bags sit on the shelves for a long time. The further store must sell LOTS of Pinnacle, because they have a huge supply (large bags stocked 15 high) of the three flavors and very long expiration dates on the bags. Good turn around there. :smile:


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## claybuster (Dec 18, 2008)

Wow, what a huge imbalance on the 6's and 3's in this mix. That is not good IMO. 5.12% to 0.50%. Practically no 3's at all in the mix.

Potatoes may be a starch but in there for a reason, it works just like fiber. Combine that with the tomato pumice (another expansion type fiber) and you can conclude 'less than 2%' crude fiber is nonsense. Wet in the stomach this is way more than 2% fiber. Another indicator something is wrong with the relationship between protein percentage and cals. 42% protein and less than 500 cals per cup? Animal source protein core....hardly.


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## Unosmom (May 3, 2009)

so? my dog does well on it and thats pretty much all I care about.


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