# Feeding raw compared to smoking?



## Roo (Oct 17, 2010)

The AVMA passed it's raw policy, and also voted against an amendment to recognize those who prefer to feed raw and educate rather than discriminate. No surprise they would rather everyone feed commercial foods.

"Raw food diets, pharmacy ethics, and president and vice president positions were discussed and voted on at the annual American Veterinary Medical Association (AVMA) House of Delegates (HOD) meeting in San Diego on Aug. 3.

The first proposed amendment would have included this additional paragraph at the end of the current Raw Animal-Source Protein Policy:

_The AVMA recognizes that some people prefer to feed raw or undercooked animal-source protein to their pets. The AVMA recommends that veterinarians inform pet owners of potential risks and educate them on how to best mitigate the risk of pathogen exposure in both handling the food and in managing pets consuming undercooked or raw animal-source protein diets._

When incoming AVMA President Douglas Aspros, DVM, opened the floor to objections and comments, Robert Groskin, DVM, of the Association of Avian Veterinarians voiced his concerns.

_“Would a medical doctor tell his patients not to smoke but then tell them, ‘If you are going to smoke, only smoke unfiltered cigarettes,’ or ‘Only smoke so many cigarettes a day'?"_ Groskin says. _“The goal is to state that raw and undercooked food are unhealthy period.”_

After the discussion, the HOD voted down this proposal with a majority vote of 66.6 percent against the amendment. The second amendment changed the existing statement _“Never feed inadequately treated animal-source protein to cats and dogs” _to _“Avoid feeding inadequately treated animal-source protein to cats and dogs.”
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This amendment passed with a majority vote of 91.9 percent in favor of the change. The HOD voted once more on the raw-food policy and the final outcome was 90.9 percent in favor of the amended resolution." 

Raw food diet stirs controversy, new AVMA president and vice president elected in San Diego - DVM


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## wolfsnaps88 (Jan 2, 2012)

Well I guess my dogs will be lighting up another smoke because we are not changing diets here.


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## lily (May 16, 2011)

What does this policy actually mean ?,we have nothing like this in the uk but on saying that,trends in the u s usually get adopted here!,karen


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## Little Brown Jug (Dec 7, 2010)

They don't want it happening because it kills animals so here feed Pedigree instead? Like really? How foolish.

Compare it to smoking? How in the world they came to that I don't know.


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

Oh lovely.


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## chowder (Sep 7, 2008)

Roo said:


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It was a DVM from the association of AVIAN veterinarians that made the comparison between smokers and raw feeding? Does he have a lot of problems with his bird patients being tossed a raw meaty bone? Come to think of it, aren't most bird automatically raw fed? I don't see the robins in my yard roasting those worms over an open fire or taking the seeds out of my feeder and toasting them in an oven first :becky:


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## EckoMac (Jun 1, 2012)

I thought this thread was going to be about grills and smokers with meat vs raw. LOL! I love my Weber, my dog would love to eat smoked meat too, but I think raw is better. 

The AVMA can suck it. I feed my dog what I buy from the grocery and butcher. They can't stop me! *insert evil laugh here*


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## ShanniBella (Jul 1, 2011)

LOL!! Hey AVMA.....SMOKE THIS! *Turns around and show's them my white @ss!!*


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## InkedMarie (Sep 9, 2011)

Does anyone know what this means for makers of pre made raw? Another forum is saying that they may be put out of business. It would boggle my mind that raw in any form could possibly be "outlawed" but dog food companies can make crap for food and they're just fine with that.


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## Sprocket (Oct 4, 2011)

InkedMarie said:


> Does anyone know what this means for makers of pre made raw? Another forum is saying that they may be put out of business. It would boggle my mind that raw in any form could possibly be "outlawed" but dog food companies can make crap for food and they're just fine with that.


Its all about who pads their pockets. Sad but that is the world we live in now.


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## Dude and Bucks Mamma (May 14, 2011)

Wow... Well, when my dogs start barking in a hoarse "smoker's bark" we'll know that raw is bad for them.


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## July11 (Jul 7, 2011)

Personally, I believe that it is the "powers that be" telling everyone (humans) what they should and shouldn't eat that is one of the root causes of the many diseases and rampant obesity that we have in this country. 

They just need to go back to their "legal" drug pushing and leave the food choices alone. Seems like that alone supplies them with enough nasty side effects to keep their little clinics busy.

Same applies to vets.


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## CorgiPaws (Mar 31, 2009)

What DOES this actually mean for companies like Primal, Nature's Variety, Stella & Chewy, etc.?


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## Nana52 (Apr 28, 2012)

CorgiPaws said:


> What DOES this actually mean for companies like Primal, Nature's Variety, Stella & Chewy, etc.?


And Hare Today and Natural Raw Diet (where I get my grass-fed goat and free-range emu)? Well, I very much believe it's processed food in large part that's the cause of much of the illness in our nation, human and animal alike, and all that illness is what keeps the doctors and surgeons in their $1,000,000 houses and new-every-year BMWs and Lexuses (Lexi??). Don't expect any of them to recommend and support a fresh natural diet for any of us.


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## Kayota (Jul 21, 2012)

I think this quote said by Mr. O'Hare from the Lorax sums it up nicely... Metaphorically speaking: "The more smog in the sky, the more people will buy!"


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## kathylcsw (Jul 31, 2011)

CorgiPaws said:


> What DOES this actually mean for companies like Primal, Nature's Variety, Stella & Chewy, etc.?



I can't imagine it will affect these companies at all. It is just a stand taken by an organization. It has no legal power so it sholdn't change anything other than possibly making people less likely to even try raw.


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## naturalfeddogs (Jan 6, 2011)

kathylcsw said:


> I can't imagine it will affect these companies at all. It is just a stand taken by an organization. It has no legal power so it sholdn't change anything other than possibly making people less likely to even try raw.


I was thinking that too. Unless it is congress passing it as a law, I feel like it is just the vets bi*%ching and complaining and it's really nothing to worry about.


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## Growlies (Jul 27, 2012)

Like the Delta society before them this shows how deep in bed the AVMA are with big pet food. While this is not legislation it will impact vets who are against feeding junk food diets. This policy will also be heard loud and clear by our lawmakers when they decide this is something to get them votes. 

I think all veterinarians who are members of this group should collectively hang their heads in shame. If my nutritionist says real/whole foods are the best for me, that I should stay away from packaged food why is it Veternarians still get away with saying the exact opposite and are not taken to task on this bad advice more often than they are. 

Shameful.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

the people who will be affected will be the 'on the fence' people...who want to try raw and value their vets' opinions.

whilst many vets are not necessarily pro raw, there was, at least for me, a different attitude today from three years ago when i started....more of an acceptance...

my vets still have 'wrong' information but they were more accepting of what i fed.

now, with the AVMA guidelines and policies, they will have to include ALL of the horror story warnings about e. coli and salmonella....and won't have to mention it in context....

they will cite studies that 'prove' raw fed dogs carry a higher than normal bacteria load so there are safety concerns....

that alone will make people shy away from raw feeding.


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## InkedMarie (Sep 9, 2011)

I posted the trailer to a video about this (was in Susan Thixtons email today) on FB.....I said that I have been to 4 local vets, I would not talk to any of them about my dogs nutritional needs and diets. I know for fact that none of them know anything about raw, don't approve and all have wanted me to feed a veterinary diet. My holistic vet is fine with raw, she'll hear that we're feeding a pre made one in November


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## MollyWoppy (Mar 19, 2010)

The few people I know who feed premade raw are converts, they absolutely rave about how it's changed their dogs for the better re allergies and general health. So, if thats anything to go by, I think there's not going to be much impact on their premade raw companies bottom line.
Nothing is going to change with our vet, the AVMA's new policy is just reiterating what they already preach to me re salmonella and stuff. There has been a huge change in their attitude about raw from of a couple of years ago when they insisted I'd end up killing my dog.


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## Makovach (Jan 24, 2012)

This doesn't much affect on most people if you think about it in the way of it just being vets complaining about raw. The way I see it, is they already do, already have been for years, so whats really the difference?. I have an amazing vet who swears by raw feeding. He prefers a frakenprey style, but also encourages those who are leery about frakenprey to try premade to get started. I had to look all over and after being turned down by many vets because I feed a PMR diet and I don't do yearly vaccines, I was told I am not allowed to enter their office as if I have the plague.


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## magicre (Apr 7, 2010)

whilst there are those who are wealthy and wealthy off the backs of their patients....both dog and human, the garden variety doctor/vet is paying off school loans sometimes well into their 40's.....

not only that....medicine and veterinary medicine is broken....the medical model for both sides is based on an abnormal system, not a wellness approach....

we have veered very far from hippocrates.....and those like him....

the changes need to come from the pharmaceutical companies who make the medicines for man and dog and cat, etc....

the changes needed to come from the AMA, the APA, the AVMA....and those bodies who set policy....

it is so rare to find doctors and vets who treat wellness....they'd go out of business real fast.

never forget this is a business.....and, whilst no doctor i know of keeps a body sick, they are not given the tools to keep a body well. nor do they try.

i also think it's incumbent up on us, the clients to be our own advocate. 

what really irks me....and this is in no way a pointing of the finger, having been on both sides of the fence.....is when i hear 'my doctor said to do this, my vet told me to do this'...and rather than look it up, the client just does it. 

when we become our own advocates, that's when this crap will stop. and not one minute sooner. imho.


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