# Need some help picking a dog food



## dadofzeus (Mar 21, 2013)

Hello,

I'm trying to pick a food (wet and dry) for my soon to be new dog. He is a St Bernard and will be about 8 weeks old when I get him. I have done quite a bit of research on the types of food I should and shouldn't feed him but they seem to contradict themselves. Everything I have seen says not to feed him a puppy food but there shouldn't be more than 24% protein. Most adult dog foods were much higher than this. I had settled on Innova large breed puppy food since the protein is at 24%. Until I was on here I thought I had made the right choice but then noticed some people were having problems with Innova due to a possible formula change. 

Pleas help me with suggestions on good foods for giant breed puppies. I know a lot like Orijen but it isn't available in my area and I'd rather not have my food shipped to me. I need to switch him as soon as I get him since the breeder feeds Ol' Roy to their adults. 

Thanks for the help,

Soon to be Dad of Zeus


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## InkedMarie (Sep 9, 2011)

I've never had a giant breed so hopefully someone with that experience will chime in.


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## PDXdogmom (Jun 30, 2010)

I can see why you want to change the food away from Ol' Roy. Even so, I would hope the breeder would give you a small bag of it so you can do a slow transition to the new food. A lot of people prefer to wait to change foods until the puppy has been in its new home at least for a couple of weeks. I understand your desire to change quickly though.

I've never seen studies that support the need for lower proteins for large breed puppies in general. Protein of 26% is generally viewed as a base level of protein for puppies. I think you want to be careful of not having too fast of growth or overfeeding.

Why not take a look at Fromm Large Breed Puppy Gold? I think it could be an easier transition from something like Ol' Roy to this rather than a high protein food like Orijen. The Fromm Large Breed Puppy has 26% protein and 14% fat. The company has never had a recall - which is something to think about. Large Breed Puppy Gold dog food - Fromm Family Foods


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## Herzo (Feb 5, 2011)

Yes I would change real fast, I was just on my basset forum and a gal there's daughter just lost 2 young dogs in the same week and was feeding Ol'roy. Her vet thought it was because of the food.

She is in Calif. don't know if that makes a difference. But they are having recalls.


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## kathylcsw (Jul 31, 2011)

Lola's breeder also fed Ol Roy. I planned on transitioning her to something better but then just could not feed her that crap! I did a cold turkey switch the day I brought her home to Simply Nourish from Petsmart. I know that wasn't the best but it was better than Ol Roy. Now she eats a raw diet. 

I think that in large breeds you are looking to have the right Calciumhosphorous ratio to prevent bones growing quickly. Since both of my dogs are under 10 lbs though, I don't know much about large/giant breeds.


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## Jacksons Mom (Jun 13, 2010)

I would agree on the Fromm Large Breed Pup food! But no experience with giant breeds.


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## Shamrockmommy (Sep 10, 2009)

I love Fromm 4-star grain free lines. They are supposed to be all ages/sizes and stages, but you can call the company to be sure, they have great customer service anytime I've called with questions. Their canned line is nice too (the gold or the 4 star).

Good luck with your st baby!


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## dadofzeus (Mar 21, 2013)

Still searching and now there is the recall on Innova. I checked the bag I have and the lot #'s aren't listed on the recall but there is a bit of worry about it. I looked at Fromm but unfortunately no one in Utah that carries it.


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## Unosmom (May 3, 2009)

you can order it online, in most cases its more convenient since you save on gas. Fromm Gold Holistic Large Breed Puppy Dry Dog Food


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## monster'sdad (Jul 29, 2012)

dadofzeus said:


> Hello,
> 
> I'm trying to pick a food (wet and dry) for my soon to be new dog. He is a St Bernard and will be about 8 weeks old when I get him. I have done quite a bit of research on the types of food I should and shouldn't feed him but they seem to contradict themselves. Everything I have seen says not to feed him a puppy food but there shouldn't be more than 24% protein. Most adult dog foods were much higher than this. I had settled on Innova large breed puppy food since the protein is at 24%. Until I was on here I thought I had made the right choice but then noticed some people were having problems with Innova due to a possible formula change.
> 
> ...


The most important thing you can do for a giant breed puppy is 1) Portion control so the dog maintains proper weight and 2) Avoid injury and stress to a sensitive and growing skeleton.

The differences in foods for most dogs are nearly meaningless, so pick something that is easy to get in large bags. Canidae comes in 44lbs bags and so does Precise Foundation. Some Eagle formulas come in plain paper 50lbs bags.

Your dog's health and longevity will be determined by genetics/breed type, when or if you neuter, weight and exercise and how freqently you vaccinate, with fewer vaccines being ideal. When or if you neuter is perhaps the most important decision you can make. Choice of food is relatively meaningless.

So long as you pick a food from a reputable company (and Orijen is by no means one IMO) your dog will be just fine.

Don't fall for the "ingredient scare tactics", as the people doing this have an agenda. Also, most of the people giving you advice hardly finish a bag of food before switching to "something even better", so there is no way they could even know how a food performs. They have all these theories about ingredients and protein levels that have no basis in science or practical experience. They whip themselves in a frenzy about the silliest things like canola oil, but recommend toxic substances like licorice root, black walnut and various other junk.

The St. Bernard Club of America has a group of Advisors for owners. 

http://www.saintbernardclub.org/2008Redesign/advisors.htm

These professionals could be of great service to you on things like diet. They have seen it all, all the fads, and you would be very surprised what the top dogs eat.

There is an old trainer saying: "It is better to have a $100 dog on a $10 food than a $10 dog on a $100 food." You can make yours a $100 dog by worrying about care issues other than diet.

Good luck with the pup!!


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## whiteleo (Sep 7, 2008)

kathylcsw said:


> Lola's breeder also fed Ol Roy. I planned on transitioning her to something better but then just could not feed her that crap! I did a cold turkey switch the day I brought her home to Simply Nourish from Petsmart. I know that wasn't the best but it was better than Ol Roy. Now she eats a raw diet.
> 
> I think that in large breeds you are looking to have the right Calciumhosphorous ratio to prevent bones growing quickly. Since both of my dogs are under 10 lbs though, I don't know much about large/giant breeds.


Just curious how people can call themselves a reputable breeder when feeding this crap. What gives?


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## doggiedad (Jan 23, 2011)

there's lots of good food available both can and dry. you may have to switch food
a few times before finding one your dog likes or one that works for your dog.
i've never fed puppy to my dogs.


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## PDXdogmom (Jun 30, 2010)

While I don't agree with the statement "choice of food is relatively meaningless" (post #10), I do agree with the perspective that genetics plays a primary role in the length of life of a dog. Number of lifetime vaccines and appropriate weight and exercise are also vital.

The choice of food is meaningful for a couple of important factors.

1. Choose a food manufacturer with a good track record and quality control so you're not risking your dog's health more than necessary.

2. A successful choice of food can enable your dog to thrive with good coat and skin condition, good energy, lack of body odor, good muscle tone, etc. Through the years I've seen the condition of my dogs change significantly depending on the food. Will a specific food enable my dogs to live a couple of extra years? Probably not. But it can help to bring out the best in them.


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## monster'sdad (Jul 29, 2012)

PDXdogmom said:


> While I don't agree with the statement "choice of food is relatively meaningless" (post #10), I do agree with the perspective that genetics plays a primary role in the length of life of a dog. Number of lifetime vaccines and appropriate weight and exercise are also vital.
> 
> The choice of food is meaningful for a couple of important factors.
> 
> ...


That is what I said and Canidae, Precise & Eagle are all good companies. Those are the ones that come to mind that are easy to get in large bags at excellent prices. Another great choice is PMI Exclusive at $.75lb. It is made by the company that makes Precise. Easy to get at feed stores.

"Relatively" does not imply that the OP shouldn't make a sound choice, it just means that in the Unites States choosing Food A at $1lb or Food B at $2.50lb makes not one bit of difference to the average dog.

Neutering has the biggest negative effect on a dog than anything, documented fact.


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## brindle (Mar 14, 2013)

monster'sdad said:


> The most important thing you can do for a giant breed puppy is 1) Portion control so the dog maintains proper weight and 2) Avoid injury and stress to a sensitive and growing skeleton.
> 
> The differences in foods for most dogs are nearly meaningless, so pick something that is easy to get in large bags. Canidae comes in 44lbs bags and so does Precise Foundation. Some Eagle formulas come in plain paper 50lbs bags.
> 
> ...


When should a person neuter?


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## lauren43 (Feb 6, 2011)

brindle said:


> When should a person neuter?


Many ppl on here think its unnecessary. But if you do decide to neuter it's breed dependent. With larger breeds you want to wait longer to allow the growth plates to close and the dog to fully form, I've heard anywhere from 18 months-2 years...Smaller dogs can usually be done earlier but again you just want them fully grown before its done.

Monsterdad, while I agree the stuff you do with your dog is ultimately the most important. But do not under estimate the power of a good diet. Look at humans, many people have health issues due to the food they eat.


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## Calvert (Mar 22, 2013)

>>Your puppy foods should have the required amount of nutrients which can help faster grow for puppy's bones in the shorter period of time. There are different types of puppy foods, namely: dry, moist, semi-moist, etc. Whichever you choose it should cover the nutrients:
>>Protein level- 24-26% >>Calcium - 1.3% - 1.6%
>>Fat 10%-15% >>Moderate calories per cup 350 - 400


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## lauren43 (Feb 6, 2011)

Calvert said:


> >>Your puppy foods should have the required amount of nutrients which can help faster grow for puppy's bones in the shorter period of time. There are different types of puppy foods, namely: dry, moist, semi-moist, etc. Whichever you choose it should cover the nutrients:
> >>Protein level- 24-26% >>Calcium - 1.3% - 1.6%
> >>Fat 10%-15% >>Moderate calories per cup 350 - 400


You do not want a large breed dogs growing quickly. And from what I understand the most important factor for large breeds is the calcium vs phosphorus ratio.


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## monster'sdad (Jul 29, 2012)

lauren43 said:


> Many ppl on here think its unnecessary. But if you do decide to neuter it's breed dependent. With larger breeds you want to wait longer to allow the growth plates to close and the dog to fully form, I've heard anywhere from 18 months-2 years...Smaller dogs can usually be done earlier but again you just want them fully grown before its done.
> 
> Monsterdad, while I agree the stuff you do with your dog is ultimately the most important. But do not under estimate the power of a good diet. Look at humans, many people have health issues due to the food they eat.


I am not underestimating it, but being scared into paying foolish prices for untested foods is not a good way to go through life. Pickup a small bag of PMI Exclusive in the red or purple bag and see what I mean.


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## mayayoung (May 24, 2015)

24% protein is far too little for any dog... i say at least 30%. I personally love wellness core, fromm (the higher protein formulas) and canidae.


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## Georgiapeach (Jan 24, 2011)

I would try Fromm. It seems to have an avid following among reputable breeders. You could also look at the Acana Singles line, which is all life stages. The protein and fat are moderate - lots of boxer people use it for puppies and adults (these dogs should also grow slowly to avoid issues). I have used the Innova Puppy before with good results years ago, but I understand the hesitation with their recall history. I can't even get Innova in my area anymore. Dealers quit carrying it when the company had back-to-back recalls a couple of years ago.


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## Dr Dolittle (Aug 2, 2013)

Large Breed puppy foods were researched well back in the 70's but the market was not ready for them so we didn't see foods till the 90's. Very sad since the research was there! Basically, and I had berners so I researched this right from the nutritionists themselves, large breed puppies will have rapid growth rate if given enough nutrients. Since puppy foods are nutrient dense, great for little dogs, they contribute to the problem. Research proved that calcium and total calories from fat could be reduced and the rpid growth rate was slowed down to a more noraml rate. It really is not a protein issue. The large breed pup still needs pleny of protein, the building blocks of tissue and bone, but by controlling fat and calcium the building is not so rapid. BTW, there is no nutritoional need for Large breed Adult, Light, or even Senior. Thats marketing. But there is a good reason to feed Lg Breed Puppy Food. My last Berner lived to be a month short of 13 years old and I believe great breeding and great nutrition made the difference. Personalkly, I have not looked at Lg Breed Puppy foods in over 10 years but when i did I found them all pretty close in controlling fat and calcium. I fed Science Diet Large breed puppy and had great results. I would be very cautious with all these new fad diets and would definitely want to look at the actaul levels, not the mins and maxs on the bags. Again, the foods I looked at were the ProPlans, Fromms, that level. I find NO reason to spend more than that! Science diet a few years ago raised the antioxidant s in their puppy foods and actually showed increased immune sysyem in a specific amount of time. They are the only puppy food with such a clinical claim if I had a puppy I would be evaluating antioxidant levels as well. Thos big, wonderful dogs are with us such a short time anything we can do to prolong their time with us is worth the effort! Portion feeding and keeping them at optimum weight as already mentioned is also critical! God Bless!


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