Naturally Raised Puppies and Kittens

[SpooOwner]

Thoughts on this?

NR Breeders; Naturally Raised Puppies and Kittens

[Scarlett_O']

I think its awesome!!
I love our very own naturally rearing breeder....and I would, if I was looking for a Smooth/rough Collie or Sheltie, TOTALLY buy from her!

[DaneMama]

I think it's a fantastic idea. BUT I want to see a bit more than just "natural" rearing methods. You can be as natural as can be in raising your dogs...but what about ethics? Would a Raw feeding puppy mill make the cut for this list? I don't think so, but it doesn't say anything about that in the first page requirements.

I'd want to see this list only take on breeders that are doing things ethically AND naturally. Health and temperament testing, working proof with their dogs etc.

[eternalstudent]

I think the concept is a lovely idea. But like so many of them it is still open to abuse. Although I don't think there would be a PMR puppy farm there is not enough of criteria to select for the list. The best any of us can hope for is education of buyers giving them the choice of who they want to buy from.

I know that I am not going to find anyone here who will not vaccinate the parents, as in 90 % of cases I will be looking a show lines. I also know that I have not found another rotti owner that feeds PMR, BARF yes but not PMR.

I would also like to know what their views are on socialisation, and environment experience, I mean, naturally there would be no contact with the outside world until 16 weeks old, but the more sights sounds and situations you can have a puppy experience is going to make them a better puppy.

Openness and education unfortunately are the way forward, and advertising ourselves with our dogs at public events is the only way to do it :-(.

(comment from yesterday at a country show:
them: We feed natural.
me: oh thats great, I feed a PMR diet
them: Our dogs are omnivores.
me: thats funny mines a carnivore
END.........

[DaneMama]

Puppies should be out in the open world far earlier than 16 weeks. The window of opportunity basically shuts at 16 weeks. I'm a firm believer in not risking an undersocialized dog which is hard if not impossible to change. Diseases that puppies could get- aren't always fatal and can be treated. But this is also why I believe it's necessary to vaccinate puppies appropriately. Meaning measured doses (even though it goes against the efficacy statement on the labels), given at appropriate ages and adequately spaced out.

If I breed Danes, they will be out in the world experiencing all kinds of sounds, sights, people, other dogs who are well socialized that I know are safe, etc by the time they're 3-4 weeks old. The antibodies that they get from mamas milk keeps them safe (only if mama was vaccinated). Temperament is almost the most important thing to me...puppies I would produce need to be bomb proof and easily trained as they will first and foremost people family companions.

[Caty M]

I just want to add that even if mama was NOT vaccinated, but still had exposure to the virus in question, then she would pass on the antibodies through her milk. Bishop showed high titers to both parvo and distemper even though he was unvaccinated. So obviously he was exposed to both at some point and if he was a mother (hehe) he would pass on that through his milk.

Puppies absolutely SHOULD be out before 16 weeks. Once you're at 16 weeks you pass two critical fear stages. You HAVE to expose them to different situations, people, dogs. That doesn't mean plop them on the ground at a dog park at 6 weeks, not at all, but you should be bringing them around with you and they should have contact with strange dogs that you know are healthy before the age of 10 weeks.

One place I would advise against going is the vet right away- unless there is a big problem. Vets are huge breeding grounds for bacteria and viruses seeing as a lot of the dogs that go there are sick.

[BrownieM]

them: Our dogs are omnivores.
me: thats funny mines a carnivore
END.........

LMAO!

[Liz]

Wow, 16 weeks without social contact. None of my dogs have had vaccines in years. My pups are non vaccinated and raw fed. They begin going out at about 4 weeks. They go to church and visit with our bus kids, the go to the lake with us, practice stairs, visit friends, check out the better pet stores and sometimes just run errands. They never go to the vet as they will probably get something if they do. If I waited til 16 weeks they would be a mess. I have shown in conformation and obedience, trained in agility classes and rally without vaccinating and my dogs have contracted no diseases. Last time we titered they were high on parvo and distemper immunities. Rabies is the one vaccine they will have to get by law starting January and I am trying to see if I can titer for that or get a waiver.

There are quite a few PMR breeders in Shelties and the list is growing with collies - non vacc, PMR, well bred, socialized and able to work.