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Food for Old Arthritic Labs

13K views 43 replies 18 participants last post by  Dr Dolittle 
#1 ·
My dog Sandy is a 10 year old Labrador Retriever who has hip dysplasia in both hips. Keep in mind that Sandy is pretty arthritic (she will limp after a 2 mile walk.)

Last week, she had a check up at the vet. The vet is very nice, but he didn't seem too impressed by the mixed diet of Orijen Adult and Regional Red I feed her. When I told him how Sandy is often hesitant to walk upstairs, the vet suggested that we switch her over to Hill's Prescription Diet j/d Canine Mobility.

Looking at the ingredients, that diet seems to be nothing special to me. I have heard some things about Hill's on this site, none of them being positive. Should I follow the advice of the veterinarian and switch Sandy to Hill's? Would this food really help my dog's joint issues? What is the ingredient that improves canine mobility? Lastly, why do vets praise companies like Hill's? :eek:hwell::confused:
 
#2 ·
I believe most hills products do do what they are meant to do. However they are not any type of dog food I'd feed my dog. They can be great as a maintenance diet but I wouldn't feed them long term.

What are you doing otherwise? I know there are supplements out there recommended for arthritis, have you tried any of those? What about water/laser/acupuncture therapies?
 
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#3 ·
People say green lipped mussel is the best thing for joints. And like lauren43 said, non-medical treatments are sometimes the best thing for a dog. Laser therapy regenerates cells and healing with no side effects. It can cause a miraculous change in arthritic dogs. Water therapy, great for joint health with no weight - just like people. Acupuncture - haven't tried it but some people say it's worked miracles.

Give your dog whole raw sardines or anchovies for good omega threes - if you can't stand to do that, give her sardines in water with no salt added.

A good diet - NOT Science Diet please. It's horrible. You can give your dog natural supplements, or even prescription supplements like Dasequin, and keep her on a decent food.

Vets make up to 30% of their profit from prescription products they sell in their waiting room. If a human doctor did that, he would be in jail. Dog Food Advisor rates one of the Hill's products one of the worst seven dog foods available, and most of them are not much better. And it's one of the pricier foods - lots of $$ for a very low quality food. Less than worthless.
 
#4 ·
You need to keep this dog thin and fit. How tall is this dog and how much does she weigh? Also, tone muscles are important in the fight against joint disease, so regular exercise is critical. Swimming especially because it there is no weight on the joints.

Perna is excellent for joint pain and inflammation and probably the best supplement is Annamaet Endure. This supplement comes from a company with a lot of experience with working dogs.

I would only switch foods if your dog is overweight. Orijen is rather high in fat.
 
#5 ·
Definitely make sure the dog is thin - excess weight is very bad for labs, who tend towards arthritis and hip dysplasia, as it is. I'd also give her Cosequin DS plus MSM, and also a fish oil capsule and a vitamin E capsule daily. It works wonders for my minipoo, who has grade 4 luxating patellas (should be needing surgery)! I had a lab (RIP Chipper!) who lived to be 14 1/2 when fed a grain free kibble and given the supplements I mentioned above. We kept him on the thin side from the time he was a puppy. We previously had a lab that we adopted from my niece, who was VERY obese when we got him, and despite getting him down from 101 lb. to 80 lb. (we couldn't get him any thinner, no matter how hard we tried - before the days of grain free kibble, when Science Diet was considered a good kibble...), he only lived to be 11 (RIP Bluto!) - succumbing to arthritis of the spine.

I'd recommend Wellness Core Reduced Fat. It worked miracles on my MIL's elderly cockapoo. It's grain free, good protein, and low fat. Most dogs like it. As long as your dog can eat a chicken based kibble, it should be fine.

At this point in time, you may want to ask your vet to give Sandy some Rimadyl or something similar to give her some relief.
 
#6 ·
I would not feed Hills. I would reduce his weight, even if he isn't overweight, you want him lean. Less weight=easier time walking. I have had good results with Annamaet Lean. It is grain free and high protein which is good to help maintain his muscles, but low fat to keep his weight in check. I would add fish oil and joint supplements. Also if you have a place for him to swim, it would be better than walking!
 
#7 · (Edited)
Sandy has been on Rimadyl for about a year now and is the perfect weight for a small lab - 55 lbs. I plan to keep her that way! :thumb: Yes, I was expecting that response about Hill's - just needed some reassurance. She has been maintaining weight and is still moving well on her Orijen mix, so I plan to keep that part of her diet. Also, I have found that beef trachea is natural source of chondroitin sulfate. :noidea:

And Sandy loves swimming, but I have just recently moved and no longer have access to the pond where she used to swim.

I am debating between what sort of supplements to use. There are so many out there!
Could I get some suggestions on types of joint supplements? Fish supplements? Vitamin E supplements? :whip:
 
#8 ·
You could try Sasha's blend..it has green lipped mussels in it. Rimadyl works well, so does Metacam. I used Adequan injections on my old lab..that worked EXTREMELY well. Plus, she did get glucosamine/chondroitin twice daily. Hope you find something that works well for her! All I know is that Adequan had fantastic results for my girl in her old age :) I'm in the field and I've seen Sahas's blend work well too and adequan used in many other old arthritic dogs with great results. Good luck!
 
#9 ·
Personally, I would swap the Rimadyl for laser therapy. I am surprised your vet has kept her on it so long. Senior dogs are more prone to the side effects, and Pfizer's own studies show that Labradors are more susceptible than other breeds. In addition, some studies show that long term use makes them more prone - these can be very serious, including liver damage and death. Your dog seems a likely candidate for something bad to happen from the Rimadyl.

If you continue, you should be hypervigilant to the signs of the side effects: The Senior Dogs Project
 
#14 ·
i don't know anything about food recommends, but my friend uses water therapy for her dog and my other friend uses laser.

we give our old girl In Clover Connectin, salmon oil capsules, green lipped mussel, for now.

when the pain increases, we will look into wapiti labs longevity and mobicosa.
 
#15 ·
Sandy, The reason your vet recommended j/d is because he probably has seen how well it works! I know all the therapeutic diets out there and of the 4 vet diets for arthritis, j/d is the best. Basically it provides an incredible amount of Omega 3's to help reduce the pain and inflammation of arthritis. n fact, in clinical studies, it worked as well as any NSAID but it took longer, about 30 days. but the real magic of j/d is that it was formulated to actually turn down the expression of the genes that are producing the enzymes destroying your dog's cartilage! You could look up Nutrigenomics, the study of how nutrients affect gene expression. Hills and Purina have been studying it, as well as human medicine. Pretty amazing stuff actually! That is something no NSAID can do. Most orthopedic specialist who have no stake in the pet food sales or promotion, heartily recommend it. in fact, it is virtually impossible to feed enough supplements to get the amt of Omega 3's your dog will get in j/d. The other problem with feeding supplements is the ratio of Omega 3s to 6s. Omega 6's are great for skin and coat, but they increase inflammation, not good for your dog. Canine j/d is only one of two diets in the world that have more 3's then 6's. Normal food, no matter the quality will always be much higher in 6's, working against your supplements. Other therapies have been very useful as well, but again, you want to stop the damaging process. Canine j/d will do that in 30 to 45 days. If not by then, it won't work. Added glucosamine and chon is another good thing but supplements are totally unregulated so you have to go with trusted brands with research to back up their claims. Just know this. Their is not one study out there proving added glucosamine/ chon to a diet is beneficial. in fact, food companies can't add enough to be therapeutic, by law! That needs to be supplemented. anine j/d to reduce the pain and inflammation and perhaps Dasaquin to help the body repair and you have a simple, safe, and a bit more affordable remedy. I don't like drugs but those NSAIDS are nice for immediate relief but not the healthiest long term. The other reason you old guy would do well on j/d is it has an excellent geriatric profile as far as protein, phosphorus, and sodium, nutrients you want to control as your pet ages, now that hypertension, kidney disease, and other age related disease risks increase. Some of the foods mentioned on this thread are far from healthy for a geriatric dog! You don't want to buy into the idea of feeding your old guy like a wolf! He would be dead already! There is no geriatrics in the wild! Anyway, my best to your old canine companion and you. God Bless.
 
#36 ·
Sandy, The reason your vet recommended j/d is because he probably has seen how well it works! I know all the therapeutic diets out there and of the 4 vet diets for arthritis, j/d is the best. Basically it provides an incredible amount of Omega 3's to help reduce the pain and inflammation of arthritis. n fact, in clinical studies, it worked as well as any NSAID but it took longer, about 30 days. but the real magic of j/d is that it was formulated to actually turn down the expression of the genes that are producing the enzymes destroying your dog's cartilage! You could look up Nutrigenomics, the study of how nutrients affect gene expression. Hills and Purina have been studying it, as well as human medicine. Pretty amazing stuff actually! That is something no NSAID can do. Most orthopedic specialist who have no stake in the pet food sales or promotion, heartily recommend it. in fact, it is virtually impossible to feed enough supplements to get the amt of Omega 3's your dog will get in j/d.
Virtually impossible to feed enough omega 3 fish oil or krill oil supplements, or fresh mackerel, sardines etc. to get the amount of omega 3 in J/D huh? How so, I'd be interested in further explanation.

Interestingly enough Science Diet received a FDA warning in 2011 in regards to their healthy mobilty formula for joints etc. for unsupported, untrue claims of feeding it for 30 days., not sure I could buy into their J/D claims so easily.
http://www.fda.gov/ICECI/EnforcementActions/WarningLetters/ucm281270.htm

FYI this is an older thread, as most of Dr. Dolittle's posts have been in.
 
#18 ·
I use wholistic pet joint care. It's a granular supplement and helps my Darby with hip dysplasia quite a lot. I also use DGP and adequan. Keep him on a grain free food as grains are inflammatory and will worsen those already sore hips.

I don't ruse science diet,even if it does as its supposed to. I don't want to deal with the poor coats
, dandruff and copious amounts of poo from it.
 
#21 ·
Hills j/d Canine Mobility Ingredients:

Whole Grain Corn, Chicken By-Product Meal, Flaxseed, Soybean Mill Run, Brewers Rice, Soybean Meal, Pork Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), Chicken Liver Flavor, Powdered Cellulose, Fish Oil, Potassium Chloride, L-Lysine, Calcium Carbonate, Choline Chloride, Iodized Salt, DL-Methionine, Vitamin E Supplement, vitamins (L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin A Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin, Folic Acid, Vitamin D3 Supplement), L-Threonine, Taurine, Soy Lecithin, Glucosamine Hydrochloride, minerals (Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite), L-Tryptophan, L-Carnitine, preserved with Mixed Tocopherols and Citric Acid, Chondroitin Sulfate, Beta-Carotene, Rosemary Extract.

Cost:
$3.92/lb.

Source:
Hill's Prescription Diet j/d Canine Mobility Small Bites Dry Food | NationalPetPharmacy
 
#23 · (Edited)
I had a customer with a 12 year old sheltie who had severe arthritis and was on this "food" for 6 months. She couldn't lose weight despite cutting back and her coat was dry and itchy. I switched her over to raw supplemented with fish oil. Just saw her last night, lost 7 lbs, no more allergies and actually ran up to me for a treat.

Even if by some miracle Hills in fact does what it says, I can't comprehend paying $4 per lb for a bag of corn and sawdust.
 
#24 ·
the pet food marketers have trained you well. As long as they can keep you gazing lovingly at nice looking ingredients and you avoid looking at nutrients, they win.......and your dog loses. every ingredient can be chosen to help sell a food or to deliver nutrients at optimal levels. You really believe some of the top nutritionists in the world would be responsible for making garbage and the food companies you all seem to embrace that have absolutely no credentials, research, nutritionists, chemists, nothing but marketing, you trust with your dogs. Human nature I guess. We all follow something. We are sheep Afterall, aren't we?
 
#25 ·
the pet food marketers have trained you well. As long as they can keep you gazing lovingly at nice looking ingredients and you avoid looking at nutrients, they win.......and your dog loses. every ingredient can be chosen to help sell a food or to deliver nutrients at optimal levels. You really believe some of the top nutritionists in the world would be responsible for making garbage and the food companies you all seem to embrace that have absolutely no credentials, research, nutritionists, chemists, nothing but marketing, you trust with your dogs. Human nature I guess. We all follow something. We are sheep Afterall, aren't we?
See that is the difference, most people here don't think they are top nutritionists. A nutritionist would never recommend corn. Terrible for dogs, cats, and humans. I actually believe it is the people blindly following vets' advice that are the sheep. Mother Nature needs no credentials. Her plan has worked for thousands of years. Commercial pet food is new, and coincidentally enough so is the huge influx of heart disease, peridontal disease, diabetes, cancers, kidney failures, etc that occur with pets. Funny how those same diseases in humans are linked to bad diets and too much processed food yet vets don't make that link with pets, it is just "old age" or "it just happens". Dogs nor humans have been eating processed food and grains long enough to adapt and thrive on them. It is best to follow a diet that is as close to pre-processing times as possible for both humans and dogs. For dogs that means feeding only things that their bodies are meant to process. Corn, rice, soy, etc are very hard for a dogs body to process. The pancreas has to overwork in producing enzymes to digest these inappropriate foods. Not to mention the questionable meat sources of Hills, Purina, Royal Canin, etc. No unnamed animal proteins for me, thank you very much. If I wouldn't eat it, my dog doesn't.
 
#26 ·
I fed science diet. Sure, nutrients may just be nutrients and science says my dogs' bodies don't know the difference but the differences in my dogs is HUGE. SD gives them a poor, dry coat, enormous, foul,smelling poop with the acompanying foul gas, the lose muscle tone and get fat, tear stains, ear infections, bad breath and a lot of plaque, ear infections and itchiness.

Put them on a food with zero wheat and corn and no by products (I like Fromm grain free and Petguard Lifespan the most) with ingredients I can recognize as food and ALL that disappears. I'm no nutritionist but the dogs bodies tell it all.
 
#27 ·
I appreciate your personal testimony but you realize thousands of pet owners could tell you how their dog did better on SD, Iams, whatever. Unfortunately the ingredients you think you can recognize are in no way what you think they are! they just look and sound good! Actually Fromm is a very good brand. Don't know all the diets and the marketing is pretty dishonest but everyone's is these days. I was impressed with their actual nutrient profiles of what I looked at.
 
#32 ·
I am not a fan of Iams so we can agree there, but more on their nutrient profiles than on any particular ingredient. Anything sold thru the mass market has to be compromised in quality and it shows in their monieral levels. SD jumping on the bandwagon, yes, but I do like that they at least mention the balance of nutrients. I wish we'd evaluate foods on that! So they can't do it but the other guys can? I beleiev every single food now has a grain free. Not because the dogs need it but to sell food. Which I thought most of you were against! LOL! I would prefer a grain free diet from a company with actual chemists and nutritionists than one without, though I don't need to spend extra money on grain free anyway. I am sure you will see more manipulation of ingredient panels to suit your fancy from all pet food companies and you will pay more too. Follow the money! And in that pursiut for money the pet owner and the pet will be the losers. I am seeing it already with very real sad stories in vet clinics. And it stinks. Funny where we humans sometimes put our trust. Cardboard, sawdust???Really! :)
 
#35 ·
I am not a fan of Iams so we can agree there, but more on their nutrient profiles than on any particular ingredient. Anything sold thru the mass market has to be compromised in quality and it shows in their monieral levels. SD jumping on the bandwagon, yes, but I do like that they at least mention the balance of nutrients. I wish we'd evaluate foods on that! So they can't do it but the other guys can? I beleiev every single food now has a grain free. Not because the dogs need it but to sell food. Which I thought most of you were against! LOL! I would prefer a grain free diet from a company with actual chemists and nutritionists than one without, though I don't need to spend extra money on grain free anyway. I am sure you will see more manipulation of ingredient panels to suit your fancy from all pet food companies and you will pay more too. Follow the money! And in that pursiut for money the pet owner and the pet will be the losers. I am seeing it already with very real sad stories in vet clinics. And it stinks. Funny where we humans sometimes put our trust. Cardboard, sawdust???Really! :)
Grains are not good for dogs. Just because one can derive energy from a source, doesn't mean they should. If that was the case I would be eating pasta and baked potatoes everyday. Grain free is important, I do think dogs need grain free.
 
#33 ·
You need to keep this dog thin and fit. How tall is this dog and how much does she weigh? Also, tone muscles are important in the fight against joint disease, so regular exercise is critical. Swimming especially because it there is no weight on the joints.
True, also is the food that you feed, make sure that you are giving the appropriate foods for their needs. For more check this: Homemade Dog Foods Can Actually Harm Your Dog - Hundido
 
#34 ·
Everyone's body (animals or humans) will process and metabolize sightly differently meaning even if all calculated nutritional needs are met exactly with nutrient profiles, they won't be all used the same. When you chemically analyze a diet (homemade or commercially processed) in a lab or by a computer program, you can not determine digestibility of a food, the bio-availability of nutrients, or how a food will perform in the individual live animal with different needs, living in different environments, having different genetic make up and exposed to different stresses. I believe the chemical nutrient profiles also don't consider the source or quality of the nutrients, or losses due to storage, shelf life etc. What about the quality control of the vitamin/mineral packs used? What country were they sourced from, any unhealthy chemical preservatives, heavy metals, etc. used? Not to mention synthetic nutrients being isolated, aren't the same nutritionally as those from whole fresh foods, which often work through complex combinations.
 
#37 ·
The only animals that thrive on grains are birds. Grains are terrible food for humans as well. Highly inflammatory and wheat causes a whole host of issues. On grains personally, I had arthritis and immune dysfunction, depression, would gain weight easily, always hungry, migraines, psoriasis, IBS, chronic fatigue, fibromyalgia... Off grains, that all disappears. I went from chair bound, ready to die (suffered with these things since I was a child!) to a mostly normal human again. I have permanent joint damage but thankfully it won't get any worse.
Grains are terrible for all but birds.

Why did you come here? The majority of people on this forum are never going to agree with your agenda.
 
#38 ·
Hey Roo, I think its great the FDA is going to get stricter on food claims. The research is there. It will jsut take the govt a while to figure out how to evaluate these claims. All the vet brands got such warnings. I think you'll agree the govt isn't always the best to do this but its a start. I sent alot of time doing the math but a 60 LB dog will receive 13,000 mg/day of Omega 3's per day. And remember EPA and the ratio to 6's also needs to be considered. The supplements I found on vet shelves were sorely lacking. And I'm just the meassager. I have had pretty prominent orthopedic specialists confirm that. I like you am just trying to ingest all the info. But I have seen the food do amazing things, and yas, in 30 days!
 
#41 ·
The only research I'm aware of on J/D was that of the companies, not independent, so bias comes into play. Now your statement makes more sense, you meant supplements on Vet's shelves, not all omega 3 supplements or food etc. I've actually found it easy to supplement my dog's omega 3 needs feeding oily fish, grassfed meats, and or a decent quality human grade fish oil supplement, no need to feed J/D to my dogs.
 
#39 ·
Agenda???? I thought this was a forum. Do you prefer we all be sheep and agree on everything lock step? God, I hope I never get like that. I actually agree with your above statement for humans. Have seen it myself. Not seeing it in dogs though, in the field or in the research. I prefer to think we have passions, not agendas, but thats just me I guess! :)
 
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