Herding Gone Wrong :/

[pandaparade]

I took my dog out to a herding lesson for the first time. Jasper loved it however, after a while, because Jasper was too loud with barking or got too close, he would get smacked to the side of the head with a plastic rake. I had no clue this is what I was getting into. I was shocked at this but didn't say anything, I just didn't know what to say. After a good smack he sort of backed off a little bit from the goats, which I know that is what they wanted him to do but, I felt first it confused him as he has never had anything hit him, second it frightened him, and I believe that lowered his confidence in his drive as well as probably anyone holding an object shaped like that.

I am sure there is a positive reinforcing way and just hated to see my dog like this. They obviously know their methods are wrong because when I was recording, they told me to only take pictures because they didn't want anything ending up on Youtube because "some people wouldn't believe in the way they train their dogs and nitpick." I have the video though as she told me afterwards.

Below, I have quoted what CountryClipperAussies says about methods in herding. I completely agree with this.

"There are two ways to approach herding, one is to positively reinforce the dog when he is where he should be (Positive reinforcement builds behavior, Ted's choice) and the other is indicate to the dog where he shouldn't be. (here you may have to deal with the side effects to using punishment. Anxiety, fear, escape, avoidance (passive and active), frustration, aggression and finally learned helplessness. These are the stages that a dog will go through every time when using punishment to teach. The other pitfall of punishment is the intensity has to increase in order to continue to be effective. This is the opposite of what happens in positive reinforcement. Further comparison reveals that with positive methods the subject learns faster in the long run. In punishment the subject appears to learn faster in the beginning but then the behavior falls apart in time. Getting back to building correct behaviors in herding with operant conditioning you are always rewarding the immediately preceding behavior. All training breaks down to cues and consequences. There are three stages to building a reinforcer. The first is food, building up to toys and games and finally evolves into relationship/affection. However, with each new behavior you may need to start with food again."

I mean, Jasper had a blast but I just did not like it at all. : (

[RachelsaurusRexU]

Poor guy :(

I'll be damned if anyone is going to smack my dog with a rake! How did you control yourself? Holy crap, I'd be in jail.

[pandaparade]

I was so shocked. I didn't know what to say at all and just didn't know what to do at that moment. :/

I really wanted Jasper to learn how to herd but looks like I will not be able to as of right now at least.

[CavePaws]

Poor Jasper! :| I would have been pissed beyond belief. Is there another place you could take him for herding lessons?

[pandaparade]

Possibly one more, I suppose I could call as see how they work their dogs. There are only two places around here and around here meaning 1 hour away.

[whiteleo]

Had you not been out to observe before you signed up for lessons?

[pandaparade]

No I had not. The place was an hour away, I had heard good things about it, and had seen some videos on Youtube on it. I guess they hide the stuff they do not want others to know about.

[pandaparade]

I listed this as "unlisted" but wanted to share with you guys what I mean..

[Tobi]

Honestly it looks like she is just giving a bit of a warning "tap" ya.... i would probably be pissed, but then again, I've never taught any dogs to herd, and from what i know they get VERY VERY intense and it looks like jasper was getting a bit too close after he got them where they needed to be. It's definitely something to look into though, I've seen some very very talented shepherds and some amazingly trained border collies that had to be trained somehow, maybe getting in contact with some of those people and see what they think of it?

[nortknee]

Ergh. :\

Not that I know anything about herding or Aussies, but he looked like he was doing just fine!
I don't feel the wack was warranted. And I certainly wouldn't blame Jasper for the "WTF LADY?!" look he gave her...

Hopefully she didn't do any permanent damage.