Herding Gone Wrong :/

[DaneMama]

The whack with the rake is completely unnecessary and a foolish move on the handlers part. It not only creates confusion it also definitely decreases the confidence in the dog. I would have gone in, and swiftly removed my dog from the pen and told the handler that I was less than impressed with their coercive and inappropriate training techniques. Herding is an intense job for a dog, but any herding dog can easily be trained with a clicker and a skilled trainer. The fact that the handler has to resort to whacking dogs with a rake just further shows they don't know diddly squat about good, appropriate dog training techniques.

[grissom_mom]

Let me preface my comment with this: I do not agree with wacking a dog with anything, including a rake!

I just wonder how the majority of herding trainers teach, because while Nat is correct and anything can be taught with clickers, not all dogs are clicker trained and it seems like it would take a lot longer for some dogs with the excitement, smells, and NOISE in the corral to get anything through with a clicker alone. I wouldn't be upset if I went to a trainer and they used a rake/stick to touch (NOT SMACK OR HIT) my dog and/or point him where to go or block him from where not to go combined with clicker/pos. reinforcement training. I could see where a rake would be a useful tool in a herding pen with a beginning dog in that situation.

I too would have run in there and grabbed the rake and smacked her with the darn thing. See how you like it!

[DaneMama]

Patricia McConnell clicker trains all of her border collies for herding. She's an expert.

When clicker training fails it's due to user error.

[Boxers&Pom's Mom]

I will not like it at all. I will be really piss off.

[FL Cracker]

I don't get the hitting part....why not use a long line?? And use a correction that way? If a barrier needed to be put between the sheep and dog...then a rake...device could be used to separate...but I don't get the strike. Now I'm sure a sheep coud certainly do some damage if allowed to kick your dog...if that's their trait to do so....but as the vid shows the dog in my opinion did not react to being hit in a manner that would promote further involvement in the event. Just my .02

[eternalstudent]

This guys books where the first I read on dogs in general and dog training. I think he has a great attitude and understanding of animals. No coercion all positive.

YouTube - Graeme Sims working seven dogs at the Midland

Unfortunately he is not that well known and there are not that many vids of him.

[magicre]

i'd find another class.

[pandaparade]

Yep, in no ways will I go back, period. My dog doesn't need to herd, it was simply a gift to him to have fun but there are tons of other fun things to do for now. Treiball will be the new one at my work :)

[chowder]

I know if anyone had used that method on any of my chows, it would be the last time they got near the chow and it would be the chow's decision, not mine! I had one trainer try to get 'dominant' with one of my boys and she ended up being the only person in the whole class who could never get near him again. He never forgave her for trying to use physical force on him. He had the same look on his face as Jasper does in the video "Who are you and what are you doing to me?!!"

I learned then the big difference between positive reinforcement and negative reinforcement. Rocky has never had anything but clicker training and he obeys like a charm and isn't worried about anything. Shade has a past of physical force used on him and he cowers and ducks at the slightest raised voice or sudden movement.

[dmgmn]

I'm not gonna agree/disagree with what she does in the video, but it looks like she showing him he has boundries and to keep his distance. When you teach a dog to herd, they have certain things that they have to stay focused on and other things they have to completely ignore to do their job correctly. Herding can get very intense and extremely dangerous for the dog if it doesn't stay focused and alert. Imagine if you will, if that were a 1500 lb steer and the dog gets too close??

It may not be the absolute best way to train, but it may not be as horrible either.
"better a tap to the snout, than a boot from a steer"

We are talking about training a "working" dog which essentially turns them into more of a "a tool" "a machine" thats has to stay focused on what they are trained to do in order to survive any and all situations that could arise from this job they have to do.

I would say " GO FOR IT" on the Treibball thing Ashley, that looks like fun and i think would be more appropriate for Jasper.

Good idea. After watching it a little more I see she is doing it because time after time she hits the rake on the ground, he just ignores it and keeps driving around it. I still don't like it though. However, I would like to know more about herding so I will look into that. Thanks for the idea.