Running out of ideas for Titus.

[EnglishBullTerriers]

Does anyone have any ideas to get Titus working??
Titus can't be around hardly anyone or anything because he gets too paranoid! He has just been neutered (almost 2y.o.) and I am trying to see if my vet would consider putting him on some anxiety meds because of he hates people in public, in my house, he can't stand other dogs... including Owen. If that doesn't help him calm down, I have nowhere else to turn. I am out of ideas. He has lost 99% of his play drive and has very little food drive other then at meal time. He doesn't have an attention span and doesn't have the focus to do more then 2 minutes of 'basic training' before he gets board. He knows how to sit, down, roll over (just for the fun of it and because he started doing it, so I put a command to it !), wait, heel, back up, leave it, and a couple of others. But more then that, he won't sit still for. I can get him to sit, wait... then he gets up and walks away. How he learned the other things, I have no idea except that he learned some of them before my sister distroyed him. He never used to be scared of much, now you can't raise your hand (just to get something up high), he hates loud noises (so yelling across the yard or house to someone who can't hear you will send him into a tizzy, or any other kind of loud noises around him), don't run towards him or he will hit the floor like you just dropped a bomb by his head, don't run away from him or he will give chace and attack you (mostly in play, unless you are a stranger), Don't look at him wrong and don't ask anything from him because he won't give it to you!
I was sucessful in crate training him, re-potty training him and we are still working on 'settel' when he gets too excited and startes jumping on people or biteing. His play will go from, 'tug'-'I will take your hand with the toy if you don't let it go' in a matter of seconds. I took him to my grandmothers house for a weekend and he did great with her. She walked outside one day and he started the 'Don't move or I will eat you alive' bark. I touched him behind the ears and told him to 'stop now'. I told him that that is 'Grandmother Johnson' and we were supposed to protect her. He turned around, looked at me and walked up to her and licked her hand and sat down.... I WANT THAT DOG!!! He was soooo great!! I just wish he was like that all of the time and not just with a couple of people. I know he can do it. I know that he has the capacity to learn and understand... He just doesn't want to and I don't have people that come over to my house often, so there isn't much of an opertunity to practice/teach.
He doesn't play fetch or anything, but he likes to tug. I am close to my whitts end with him. I don't know what to do. Can anyone suggest something.


P.S. No, I can't take him to any classes because of his agression towards people and other dogs (even if it is just because he doesn't know yet/anymore). I don't know about someone coming to me, that might get expansive and I don't have that to throw out there. :(

[t0nnn]

Our dog Bailey has sort of a similar case with really bad anxiety towards other dogs she doesn't know and recently towards dogs she does know, she's gotten in 3 fights recently. She gets crazy anxious (Cries, barks, growls, tail wagging) when she see's other dogs in person or thru the window.

I saw a post on here about desensitization and counter conditioning treatment and asked rawfedogs about it to get his opinion; I think it's the only way we can go about teaching her how to act around other dogs, in your case people and dogs.

You may want to look into it, I found a good site that gives you the breakdown of the treatment and you can search for certified behaviorist in your area. We're going to start this soon, just have to start contacting the trainers and see how they are and what prices they charge.

ASPCA - Virtual Pet Behaviorist

[g00dgirl]

How much exercise does he get a day? Sounds like he needs more than a game of tug. Burning off some of that energy through exercise will help reduce anxiety and aggression. I'm guessing he needs more than walks too- this boy needs to be able to run. If you can't run with him maybe you can get a cheap treadmill off craigslist. Having a treadmill will also allow him to get exercise without having to worry about seeing other people and dogs in the beginning- you don't want to close him off to the world though, obviously because that will just make the problem worse.

Do you ever watch "It's Me or the Dog"? There is an episode with a boxer (and a few others) that deal with dog aggression and desensitizing.

[EnglishBullTerriers]

The problem with him is that he doesn't like to run, and when he does run, its for about 2-3 minutes and then he just stands around and stares down the cars that come to a stop at the stop sign. I have teken him for walks and tried to run with him, but he gets so focused on the cows around us that he forgets that I am attached to him and tries to chase the cows. He can't be off leash at any time, so when we are not in the yard he is on a leash beside me, but when we are he is on a tie down with 70ft of lead. He won't play with toys for mosr then a couple of minutes and he can't play with Owen. My yard isn't fenced cause I can't afford the fencing that it would take to do that. (Its a big yard!)
I have to rotate the boys in and out of their crates so they are not both out at the same time because of the fights that they have started with each other. (That started around Christmas.) I have tried to get them back to 'friends' but that never lasts long before one starts giving the 'you pissed me off' look again. I have been lucky so far with them not actually killing each other. When 'the look' starts, I will put them BOTH in there crates (in different rooms) and they have to stay apart from then on... Until I feel up to trying one in one room and the other in an ajoining room to see how it goes. (I haven't tried this in a while.) Anyway, on an average work day, they each will get anywhere from 1-3 hours of 'out of the crate' time a day. Depending on how exhausted work makes me that day. On the weekends though, they get to go out for about the same amount of time, but multiple times durring the day. Owen will usually play fetch with his ball outside for 30-45 minutes and then he is ready to go in, get water and rest for a while... then he wants to go back out!! :)
Titus usually stays outside longer cause he likes to be out doors. I have thought about taking him hiking or something, but then there is the probelm that we might meet people or 'off-leash' dogs and I don't know how he will react due to his agression... and I don't want us to get in trouble if he tries to after someone or their dog. I usually sit on the porch and wait till he is done doing his business and then I will chase him in the yard or run so he will chase me, but that fizzels out within a couple of minutes and he just wants to sit and watch things, or try to chase the cows. I will try to play ball with him, but he runs for the ball, picks it up and decides that the grass is more interesting. SO I tried coaxing him back with treats and he will come, but he won't bring the ball, or he will bring the ball and then won't chase again. The most activity I can get out of him is when he wants to chase the cows... and they aren't my cows or I would see how he would do with them. If he wouldn't bite them, but just give chase and they were my cows, I wouldn't mind. :)

Tonn- I will look thru and see if I can find that thread. Thanks, I am also looking into a Behaviorist, but I just barely make ends meet for the 4 of us as it is now, so we will see how it goes.

gOOdgirl, do you have any suggestions for a tool or something else that would provoke a play/prey drive, or anything that will get him moving?? I have been keeping my eyes open for a treadmill.. I have always wanted one for them, but they have all been pretty expensive or broken. :/

Thanks guys!

[g00dgirl]

I think one of the main issues (from what it sounds like) is that they are crated at least 20 hours a day? That's an incredibly long time.
I think until that is fixed, there will always be problems because of all their pent up energy. Also, being a crate for so long is just plain boring.
Can you put up a gate in the house so that they can both be out while you are home? What do they have in their crates while you are gone, any toys?
You may have to teach a "watch me" command first and try running again- keep his attention on you. From what I've read English bullies are very athletic dogs so he CAN run he's just distracted and stubborn.
It sounds like you live alone? If so, are there any friends you can get to walk with you and walk one of the boys so you can exercise them at the same time. Walking together is generally good for dog-dog relationships.
One of my boxers is dog aggressive so I take them to an empty tennis court to run around whenever i can. If they still won't run take some cut up hot dog and throw is as far as you can so they run after that.
You could try something called a "teaser pole" too to bring out the play drive. I think you can google that to find out how to make one.
Mainly, they just need more exercise. Being crated all day is literally going to drive them crazy. I know I'd be an irritable mess if the only time I got out of my bedroom I had to share attention with another person or was overstimulated by all the things outside.

[EnglishBullTerriers]

I think one of the main issues (from what it sounds like) is that they are crated at least 20 hours a day? That's an incredibly long time.
I think until that is fixed, there will always be problems because of all their pent up energy. Also, being a crate for so long is just plain boring.
Can you put up a gate in the house so that they can both be out while you are home? What do they have in their crates while you are gone, any toys?
You may have to teach a "watch me" command first and try running again- keep his attention on you.

I know that they need to be out more, and I have tried to keep them both out when I am home with a gate up, but that was how the last fight started. Titus wanted on the side of the house that I was on and that wasn't the side that he was supposed to be on. (I just had to pee for heavens sakes! )

Titus gets Kong toys with frozen stuff to get out, or RMBs, or just chewey rubber toys... or all of the above. Sometimes he even uses his food bowl for a chew toy if I forget to take it out before leaving for the day. :-D

From what I've read English bullies are very athletic dogs so he CAN run he's just distracted and stubborn.
It sounds like you live alone? If so, are there any friends you can get to walk with you and walk one of the boys so you can exercise them at the same time. Walking together is generally good for dog-dog relationships.

Haha!! Sorry for the confusion, Owen is the EBT, Titus is the NeoMastiff mix. Owen is great with the schedule. As long as he gets out for a while to play ball, he is fine. Titus is the one that I have the most problems with. Titus doesn't want to play, he would love to just be out of his crate and lay around on the couch. I don't mind that and probably wouldn't mind leaving him out all day except for the part where he chews everything and breaks stuff. I sometimes think that I have too many dogs and can't keep up with them, but then I see another puppy and just start thinking about getting another EBT!! It never goes any further then just thinking about it though.

One of my boxers is dog aggressive so I take them to an empty tennis court to run around whenever i can. If they still won't run take some cut up hot dog and throw is as far as you can so they run after that.
You could try something called a "teaser pole" too to bring out the play drive. I think you can google that to find out how to make one.
Mainly, they just need more exercise. Being crated all day is literally going to drive them crazy. I know I'd be an irritable mess if the only time I got out of my bedroom I had to share attention with another person or was overstimulated by all the things outside.

As much as I would love to keep them out longer and do more with them, living by my self does creat a LOT of problems... especially living out in the middle of nothing but cows. Titus is a very visual kind of dog... If he doesn't see it in front of his face, it doesn't exist... and sometimes not even then! I will try the teaser pole again. (tried it when he was younger and he though I was very odd. Didn't care about it.) If he takes to it, I will try to get pictures and videos to show. :)

Please don't think that I am not hearing you. I am writing things down to work on. I am also in no way saying that this is all the dogs fault, because I know that I have my part in it as well. I do try the best I can, but I do work full time and everything was going fine till they started the fighting thing. Now they have messed up my days!!! I love them both soo much, but they do wear me out some days. I have been told by a few people that Titus should just be euthanized because he isn't worth the time, but I know him better then that.

Thanks again for more ideas!

[malluver1005]

Have you ever thought about using one of those basket muzzles on him? You could take him out in public, so he could meet other people. You could even take him hiking, and not worry about loose dogs because he won't be able to hurt them. You could take him to a trainer with the basket muzzle on, and they could work with him...

[Khan]

I like mall's suggestion. If he had the muzzle neither of you would have the excuse not to exercise him. I say this, because when I first got Khan, and we were driving around getting use to the car new people, etc. one of the places I took him was Zeus' (RIP) Rehab clinic. We were in the lobby talking with the Dr. who also had a mastiff, and I was telling her how Lazy he was! I mean for a puppy he was more than happy to play for 5 min. then he would just sleep! Puppies are usually into everything! She told me, that keeping a mastiff active would be one of the biggest challenges I would have, and that I better start while he's young. She explained that because they are so big and massive, they are not "lazy" they are efficient! LOL they don't want to move that much mass unless necessary, so laying on the couch becomes a way better option for them. Of course laying on the couch only increases their mass. Hence you have the vicious circle! This could be the circle that Titus is in. If he quits after a few min. nobody "pushes" him to continue, so back to the couch he can go. He ultimately gets what he wants, which is being a couch potato.
Maybe all he needs is some "tough love" and with the muzzle it could get him started.

[shadowfacedanes]

Just thinking out in left field for a sec...but have you had his thyroid tested? From what I understood of your post, it sounds like his energy level and appetite are both "off" which, along with temperament issues, can also spark from a thyroid issue.

Might be something to consider.

Also, if your vet will not prescribe something for anxiety, I've had good success using DAP's for rescue dogs who are transitioning and having a lot of anxiety based issues. You can purchase a diffuser which works just like a Glad Plug In, or you can purchase the collars so that he'd get the benefits of it when you are away from home as well.

[EnglishBullTerriers]

When he goes to the vet he will be getting blood work done... and then anxiety meds. :)
His eating is fine. He is always ready to eat, he just doesn't care about treats. I have gotten him dehydrated meat, carrots, raw meat (yes, thats gross, but you gotta do what you gotta do!), kibble. All of these things he likes, but when it comes to working for them, he just doesn't care.
I think you might be right with the 'efficient' thing Khan. He is only 70lbs and could be larger as he currently looks like a walking skelaton. (In the summer he loses weight just from breathing, but its hard to keep weight on him.) I have upped his food to ~4lbs a day for the summer again to see if he will gain weight, especially now that he is neutered and doesn't have a motabolism running at 500mph. :)

We went for a walk last night because within 3 minutes of getting out of his crate (before going outside) he had managed to clear off my counters and tables and toss some glass dishes across the kitchen.... OMG I was freaking out that he had gotten hurt more then anything else!! We walked for about 45 minutes (I have asthma, so we went as far as I could go before having to go home). On the way away from the house he was 'ok', but was constantly pulling on me. On the way back was a little better..... Until the dang cows came to the fence and started following us down the fence line. Titus FREAKED out!!!!! He was barking like a mad dog and wanted nothing more then to catch his own dinner!! (I wouldn't have minded him doing that, but they weren't my cows) It took all I had to hold him back and try to re-gain his attention with treats and a lot of talking quietly to get him to look at me again. When he did, the dang cows took off running away from us and he went at it again!!! I swear... cows are useless! I don't care what Chickfila says.... EAT COWS!!!! I was already worn out from the day of work, then I had to take him out, then the cows were hell-bent on getting me killed and then there were a ton of people that wanted to slow down and look out their window or talk to him while we were walking. I don't know what made me sleep more, the exercise, or the work-out!!
We will be trying to walk without killing me again tonight... Lets hope I make it through the night and re-post tomorrow!!