A question of teaching a 'recall' to a distractible dog

[Huginn]

Background:
So, I have been trying to come up with ideas for this for a long time. My BF has this adorable, sweet and smart, but stubborn and distractible beagle. I have known Ajax (the beagle) for a little over a year now and grown to love the little wiggle butt. The one thing that my BF has always wanted is to be able to let him run around off leash, but he is very scared to let him do this. Ajax gets any scent and is off following that, if you say "Ajax, come" he ignores you completely in favor or this scent, if he loses it or gets bored he will kind of sniff his way back to you, like "well, this scent just kind of led me to you, I wasn't really listening." He won't even look at you, but if he keeps the scent he will ignore you for who knows how long. There is a little dog walking area where they live, its maybe the size of my living room and Ajax gets to walk/run around there off leash since it is gated and he can't dig out while we are watching him, so we have tested multiple times in there, after letting him roam around and sniff to his hearts content, he still won't usually come if you ask him to. He does when he is ready lol. Nate (the BF) worked with him when he was a puppy, but then let it go I guess (Ajax is now three). When his ex-wife lived with him, she had an older beagle that was Ajax's buddy and she would always (so I am told) come when called and Ajax would just follow her. But the other dog left with the ex and Ajax has no one to follow now.
So here is my idea, I am going "home" this week and will have some spare time to work with the little munchkin, and Nate (he get's really nervous about things like this), so I have a plan and I was hoping for opinions on how well it will work. I have horses and I have a 20ish foot "lunge line" its really light weight so it won't drag him down, I was thinking of taking him to a local park, and letting him sniff around the areal while on the "short" six foot leash, give him plenty of time to smell and sniff and bay and do all those hound things he needs to do. When he starts to calm down, run through the few commands he knows really well, to get his mind working and then put him on the longer line. My plan was to do what I was taught with puppies to teach them the command 'come,' put him in a sit-stay and walk away, then give him the 'come' command and treat/praise when he does. I figure I'll do that a few times, and let him sniff and get distracted and then use the command again. He's really smart and I think he will pick it up quickly. Eventually, moving to longer and longer leash and then going to a fenced dog park, and attempting the off leash.
ETA: I know that this will be something that won't be fixed in a single week, but I am hoping it is a good start and something that won't seem to intimidated for Nate to work with him on until my next visit.

I'm also hoping to enlist the help of Abi this week and her pack in getting him used to appropriately greeting dogs. He doesn't see others very often and gets way too overexcited, people in pet stores see the "cute beagle puppy" and let their dogs run up to him, Ajax gets excited and then panics and then tries to dominate, before I can stop the other dog. . . ugh. Anyway, Abi and I have worked out a plan for working on that since I have introduced to him to Rhett, once or twice. Just have to show Nate how to do it and get rid of his anxiety.
These two are a lot of work for me lol. They love each other so much I want to make their time together better, and Nate desperately wants to be able to let Ajax run around without the worry of losing him.

So ideas, on the recall training?

A picture to ease the torture of my long winded-ness:
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[chowder]

We had Shade for over 6 months before I was willing to even let him out the front door to run and greet anyone coming home because he would totally run off after everything and disappear. He's like your little beagle, gets the scent or sight of something and is gone.

We did recall training in the fenced back yard with REALLY high value treats and a clicker. I use my loudest clicker for recall training and it actually sounds different then the other clickers so I know that they can hear it from a distance. I started out just running from Shade and calling him to me (like a chase game) and when he got to me he'd get a treat (no leash on at this point). He eventually got to where he'd come to me from anywhere in the backyard when I called him. I have one of those really long leashes but I've found them to be more trouble then they are worth. Mine always got tangled and it was impossible to try and pull the dog back in on it if he ignored you on the recall. The 'chasing' game worked better for me. Then we graduated to 'sit - stay ' and then 'come' and get a treat.

After a year, he's pretty good about being loose in the front yard but I don't think I will ever trust him 100% because he is just too distractable a dog. The other day he ran out to greet me when I got home and saw a pair of deer in the neighbor's yard. That was it, he was gone in a flash and we had to finally find him two yards over by the edge of their yard leading into the woods where the deer had vanished. I think it is just asking too much of him to totally ignore things like deer and bunnies when he see's them.

[xchairity_casex]

get yourself a long line (a super long training lead or just a piece of rope) you want it to be good and long atleast 50 feet and take some very high value treats. the way i like to start out is while the dog is on the long line hold it close while you walk around a grassy area like you would a normal lead every single time he looks up at you without your asking stop and give him a treat dont give any commands then after treating him about 5 times let slack on the lead and again walk in the same large circle over and over again everytime he looks at you or comes close to you give him a treat after about 10 times give a bit more slack on the elad continueing the same circle doing the same excersize looks at you or comes to you treat this is conditioning him to WANT to stay close to you and to WANT to give you eye contact and pay attention to you you want him to know that EVERYTIME he checks in with you by giving eye contact or jsut looking at you he gets rewarded. you would be very suprised at how this makes a do eager to pay close attention to your everymove!

once you are at the point where the lead is all the way let out keep walking if he put his nose on the ground and catches a wiff call him if he ignores give a tug on the lead and call him the second he comes to you treat him even if you have to pull him in treat him i would keep this training up for a month atleast with the everytime he looks at you you give him a treat even if hes learned to eat his treat then step in front of you to look at you right after treat him again,and again and again and again!

[Huginn]

We had Shade for over 6 months before I was willing to even let him out the front door to run and greet anyone coming home because he would totally run off after everything and disappear. He's like your little beagle, gets the scent or sight of something and is gone.

We did recall training in the fenced back yard with REALLY high value treats and a clicker. I use my loudest clicker for recall training and it actually sounds different then the other clickers so I know that they can hear it from a distance. I started out just running from Shade and calling him to me (like a chase game) and when he got to me he'd get a treat (no leash on at this point). He eventually got to where he'd come to me from anywhere in the backyard when I called him. I have one of those really long leashes but I've found them to be more trouble then they are worth. Mine always got tangled and it was impossible to try and pull the dog back in on it if he ignored you on the recall. The 'chasing' game worked better for me. Then we graduated to 'sit - stay ' and then 'come' and get a treat.

After a year, he's pretty good about being loose in the front yard but I don't think I will ever trust him 100% because he is just too distractable a dog. The other day he ran out to greet me when I got home and saw a pair of deer in the neighbor's yard. That was it, he was gone in a flash and we had to finally find him two yards over by the edge of their yard leading into the woods where the deer had vanished. I think it is just asking too much of him to totally ignore things like deer and bunnies when he see's them.

That's a really good idea, to start as a game. I know when treats are involved, and once he knows they are, he is more than willing to listen. I wish we had a fenced backyard, but we just don't anymore. That's why I am hoping that this long leash will work.
I kind of feel the same way about Ajax, it's in his blood to sniff things out and have US follow HIM, not the other way around. I'm kind of curious to see how it goes, we are ok if he is never able to be off leash outside of a fenced yard, but we are still in college and who knows how long it will be until we can afford that :(
Thanks for your reply and I will not expect anything out of him too soon :)
I'm excited to have Abi, helping me with him learning to greet other dogs :) That is my big goal for the week.

get yourself a long line (a super long training lead or just a piece of rope) you want it to be good and long atleast 50 feet and take some very high value treats. the way i like to start out is while the dog is on the long line hold it close while you walk around a grassy area like you would a normal lead every single time he looks up at you without your asking stop and give him a treat dont give any commands then after treating him about 5 times let slack on the lead and again walk in the same large circle over and over again everytime he looks at you or comes close to you give him a treat after about 10 times give a bit more slack on the elad continueing the same circle doing the same excersize looks at you or comes to you treat this is conditioning him to WANT to stay close to you and to WANT to give you eye contact and pay attention to you you want him to know that EVERYTIME he checks in with you by giving eye contact or jsut looking at you he gets rewarded. you would be very suprised at how this makes a do eager to pay close attention to your everymove!

once you are at the point where the lead is all the way let out keep walking if he put his nose on the ground and catches a wiff call him if he ignores give a tug on the lead and call him the second he comes to you treat him even if you have to pull him in treat him i would keep this training up for a month atleast with the everytime he looks at you you give him a treat even if hes learned to eat his treat then step in front of you to look at you right after treat him again,and again and again and again!

The line I have for now is 20ish. Enough for lunging a horse, if this works out we may look into a longer one to keep going with it. I know it will take a while. We've kind of been doing something like this when we walk to the dog walking area, on the way there he doesnt care if you have treats, but on the way back he watches you the whole time, walks with you and waits for his chance to get a treat. So, I'm really hopeful that this will work. I was thinking of giving him a "leave it" command and then calling him if he starts sniffing about. Do you think this a bad idea, he kind of knows "leave it" because when I was living there I was not ok with him trying to eat food off of my plate.
Thanks for the suggestions :)

Also when you guys say "high value treats" what do you mean by that exactly ?

[Maxy24]

I love our long line, if I get ignored I can pull him in so he doesn't get rewarded for ignoring me. I also think running from your dog upon recall is super important for making it exciting for the dog. As soon as he starts coming your way, run backwards so he starts picking up speed. Then reward heavily when he gets to you and immediately release (pick a release word) so he knows coming isn't the end of fun time.

[IslandPaws4Raw]

Since you said he doesn't even come inside the house, I would start there. You want to start in an environment where distractions will be absolutely minimal, so he's set up for success every time. I like Chowder's method, because it would be really fun for the dog.If he hasn't been introduced to a clicker you can always use "YES!" as your marker for correct behavior. I would even back up a step and reward him for just looking at you when you call his name, and when he's doing that consistently you can add the recall training.
The key to training a successful recall is ALWAYS reinforce it only when you know he will come. That way he learns that he has no other option when you call him, and it's rewarding for him. Eventually you should be more valuable to him than any distraction out there.

Good luck!

[Donna Little]

Sounds like a good plan to me and also sounds like good advice from the folks on here.
I'm hoping today will be sunny and nice enough outside so I can do a little of that with my guys. Several of them are a lot like Ajax and chose to ignore me when they feel like it. It's good exercise for me too!
BTW, that is one of the cutest Beagles I've ever seen!

[xchairity_casex]

"HIgh value" treat is a treat that the dog wants REALLLY bad like its the BEST treat in the world for them so like dry kibble is not a high value treat imo a high value treat has both a strong (good) flavor and a strong (good) smell i personally found that when they have a stronger smell to it like cheese or meat then the dog is able to pick up the scent of it on its own without your having to wave it in front of there faces to get there attention

[Missy Mae]

I use dehydrated duck for high value treats. That stuff stinks but my dogs love it.

[xellil]

I always wondered about high value treats. What would be the point of a low value treat? Who gives their dogs dry dog food as a treat? Is that really common?

And if you use high value treats for recall, under what circumstances would you use low value treats? When you are training them to do something where you don't really care if they mind or not?