How to appraise for "ideal" defecation.

[DaneMama]

facts are not thoughts they are proven. what you said were opinions.

if we wanted to go by the facts there are plenty of dogs on purina living to be 15-20.

although i agree that raw is what a dog should eat =p. but there is nothing wrong with a grain free meat based kibble like canidae, orijen ,evo. all good kibble.

But what you think is fact may be completely different than what anyone else thinks as fact...so all the "facts" out there are completely opinion based no matter how you look at it or how much scientific study has been done. You are never going to believe a fact unless you agree with it. I think that raw is the beat option out there for many, many more reasons than I'm going to list in this post...whether they are backed by "facts" or "opinions".... to me they are one and the same. Scientific LAW on the other hand is a different story altogether.

You and I disagree on kibble then because i see a LOT wrong with even the grain free kibbles...

[CorgiPaws]

there is nothing wrong with a grain free meat based kibble like canidae, orijen ,evo. all good kibble.

Purple= wrong

CANIDAE GRAIN FREE ALS:
Chicken meal, turkey meal, lamb, potatoes, peas, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), lamb meal, ocean fish meal, tomato pomace, natural flavor, choline chloride, suncured alfalfa meal, inulin (from chicory root), lecithin, sage extract, cranberries, beta-carotene, rosemary extract, sunflower oil, yucca schidigera extract, dried enterococcus faecium fermentation product, dried lactobacillus acidophilus fermentation product, dried lactobacillus casei fermentation product, dried lactobacillus plantarum fermentation product, dried trichoderma longibrachiatum fermentation extract, vitamin E supplement, iron proteinate, zinc proteinate, copper proteinate, ferrous sulfate, zinc sulfate, copper sulfate, potassium iodide, thiamine mononitrate, manganese proteinate, manganous oxide, ascorbic acid, vitamin A supplement, biotin, calcium pantothenate, manganese sulfate, sodium selenite, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), vitamin B12 supplement, riboflavin, vitamin D3 supplement, folic acid, cobalt proteinate, papaya, pineapple.


EVO
Turkey, chicken, turkey meal, chicken meal, potatoes, herring meal, chicken fat, natural flavors, egg, apples, tomatoes, potassium chloride, carrots, vitamins, garlic, cottage cheese, minerals, alfalfa sprouts, ascorbic acid, dried chicory root, direct-fed microbials, vitamin E supplement, lecithin, rosemary extract.


ORIJEN REGIONAL RED:
Fresh deboned wild boar, fresh deboned lamb, lamb meal, russet potato, fresh deboned pork, peas, salmon meal, whitefish meal*, herring meal, fresh deboned bison, fresh whole eggs, potato starch, fresh deboned salmon (a natural source of DHA and EPA), alfalfa, sweet potato, fresh deboned walleye, salmon oil (naturally preserved with vitamin E and citric acid), pea fiber, psyllium, pumpkin, tomatoes, carrots, apples, cranberries, Saskatoon berries, black currants, chicory root, licorice root, angelica root, fenugreek, marigold flowers, sweet fennel, peppermint leaf, chamomile flowers, dandelion, summer savory, rosemary, organic kelp, vitamin A, vitamin D3, vitamin E, niacin, zinc proteinate, thiamine mononitrate, riboflavin, vitamin B5, iron proteinate, vitamin B6, manganese proteinate, copper proteinate, folic acid, biotin, vitamin B12, selenium, dried Lactobacillus acidophilus product, dried Enterococcus faecium fermentation product.


....I did this at a glance, Im sure i missed other "wrong" ingredients, but it's almost 2am, and I think what I have is enough to show that yes, there are quite a few things wrong with a "grain free meat based kibble."

I'm alarmed at the number of "product" ingredients in canidae grain free als. Nifty. already overly processed ingredients going in to be processed further!! yayyyy


ETA: my corgi going from his deathbed to romping and playing like a one year old corgi should simply off of cutting carbs out of his diet, no medication, no "treatment" is all the "fact" i need.

Those "meat based" kibles are so overly processed, that while I'm sure some of the ingredients may have qualified to be called "meat" at some point in time.... I'm pretty darn sure the prosessing kills most of the nutrients, and I wouldnt even call the final product meat at all, by a long shot

meat   /mit/ Show Spelled[meet]
–noun
1.the flesh of animals as used for food

[rawfeederr]

although i agree that raw is what a dog should eat.

Then why did you call raw BS??

[RCTRIPLEFRESH5]

so youre basically saying that its raw or no way.
im sure your dogs are healthy, but my dog is healthy as well. hes going on 7, and is just as rambunctious as most puppies. smells like flowers,and is smart as a whip.

he was on science diet as a puppy ,then nutro for a few years then canidae in maybe 2007? and has been on canidae ever since, soon to be on grain free canidae. my dog may not be on raw, but that doesnt mean he isnt as healthy or even healthier than yours!

diet is very important but so are genetics. and i disagree with the raw is the only way approach. high quality kibbles are still good choices for dogs.

dogs arent wild dogs, and some people may want the convenience of feeding kibble.

also the wrong ingredients you highlighted in regional red are pretty low on the label, and they arent necessarily wrong, but more like unecessary.

[rawfeederr]

Nope, not what I'm saying at all.

My dog was fed bad kibble to up until a few years ago, too. I started feeding healthy when I started studying pet nutrition.



I doubt that in most cases a kibble fed dog would be healthier than a properly raw fed one.

Domestic dogs are the same on the inside as wild ones.


High quality kibble is a good choice, but it's the truth that raw is what should be fed 99.9% of the time.

[CorgiPaws]

so youre basically saying that its raw or no way.

No, I never said that. I am saying there is no prefect kibble, there is something wrong with each and every one of them. What you feed your dogs is your business.

my dog may not be on raw, but that doesnt mean he isnt as healthy or even healthier than yours!

So ust imagine how much healtheir he'd be on a species appropriate diet. instead of processed omnivore junk.

diet is very important but so are genetics. and i disagree with the raw is the only way approach. high quality kibbles are still good choices for dogs.

You're right. There are many approaches to feeding your dog. There is one natural, species appropriate way. (unless you want to deny that dogs are carnivores, and deny that kibble is processed.)
I wouldn't call feeding a carnivore a processed omnivore diet a "good choice" but to each their own I suppose.

dogs arent wild dogs, and some people may want the convenience of feeding kibble.

Dogs may look different on the outside, but they are the same inside as they have been for millions of years. The same parts, same digestive system, same nutritional requirements. Kibble has only been around for about fifty years, you can't possibly believe that that's enough time to even BEGIN to change the genetic makeup of a species.

I put health and nutrition above convenience.. but even so. You scoop kibble, I dump a plastic bag in the grass.
You might argue that you don't have two hours a month to prepare their food, but IMO someone who doesn't have two hours a month to dedicate to their dog's health, has no business having a dog. (NOTE: don't turn this into a feed raw, or you don't deserve a dog claim. that's NOT what I said.)

also the wrong ingredients you highlighted in regional red are pretty low on the label, and they arent necessarily wrong, but more like unecessary.

That's because it's the best food listed here.
Notice Canidae's species inappropriate ingredients are all over the place, including in the top 5 ingredients. Good choice! lol.
You might call them unnecessary. I call them wrong because they're the wrong thing to feed a carnivore. Therefore, not right to feed a dog.

[RawFedDogs]

diet is very important but so are genetics. and i disagree with the raw is the only way approach. high quality kibbles are still good choices for dogs.

No, they aren't anymore of a good choice for dogs as a diet of pizza, quarterpounders, KFC, and hot dogs are healthy for humans. The humans who live on a diet of this junk food think they are healthy but often are grossly overweight with bad heart, kidneys and other organs and develop cancer more often. Dogs who live a lifetime on highly processed cereal (kibble) with a lot of questionable ingredients also develop more health problem later in life than the dogs fed a proper diet.

dogs arent wild dogs, and some people may want the convenience of feeding kibble.

Our domestic dogs are exactly the same as wild dogs and the people who decide their dogs diet based on convenience are just too lazy to feed the proper way.

also the wrong ingredients you highlighted in regional red are pretty low on the label, and they arent necessarily wrong, but more like unecessary.

They are terribly inappropriate to feed a carnivore and have no place in their diet. It doesn't matter how low in the list they are, they are still there and still are harming the dog's health.

[harrkim120]

No, they aren't anymore of a good choice for dogs as a diet of pizza, quarterpounders, KFC, and hot dogs are healthy for humans.

These things aren't healthy??? Why didn't anyone tell me???

Haha...sorry, just had to add that.

[RCTRIPLEFRESH5]

Then why did you call raw BS??

i said''get out of here with your raw bs''

cause you were promoting it in the kibble section.

i think raw is the best way to go, but not the only way.