Confused! Please help! *FOOD*

[RawFedDogs]

Yes this is the ingredient Forum but I don't think that it is meant to discuss the merits of liver or kidney in the diet.

Unfortunately for you, you don't get to decide what each forum is meant to discuss. Thats my call.

Since the modus operandi if all of you is, after 2 or 3 posts, to come with the same old tiring talk of teeth, carnivores, wolves, nature and the rest, there's no place to discuss anything. And the proof is that there's no one single post in this forum where a real discussion takes place, and all because of you barfers or rawers or whatever.

Perhaps you would be happier somewhere else.

No, I have never tried Raw or Barf or whatever and frankly I don't want to try.

You should try it before you go knocking it. At least you would have some little knowledge what you are talking about.

I find it stupid and a waste of resources to use protein to cover energy needs, that is what happens in your "natural" diets.

See? Thats what I mean. Dogs use protein to build muscle and other body parts. Fat is used for energy. You really should do some research before you make such statements.

Besides, I know of people who have tried Raw or Barf or whatever and didn't saw any measurable differences and, given all the trouble and expense of this kind of feeding, have returned to kibble.

Funny, it's been my experience that about 1% of people switch to raw and then return to kibble.

I'm happy with my truth and I too stick to it. And it's very annoying being systematically bombarded with arguments that don't come from science but from beliefs and being considered a moron that has to be schooled to be able to see the light (aleluiah, praise the bone!).

Problem is your truth has no basis in science and is far from true. It's mearly marketing material from dog food companies. Why don't you offer some of this science you are touting so we can discuss it? Everything I say is based on sound science. You can't disprove any of it or you would.

So, enjoy talking to each other (by the way, have you noticed that, also as usual, the initial poster has disappeared? ...)

I don't think so but I do seriously suggest if you don't like what is posted here, find a forum you would be happier with. Perhaps you are just a chronic complainer and you aren't happy on forums where you have nothing to complain about.

[JayJayisme]

Wow BlueKnight, I'm sure you are an intelligent person but the ignorance on this subject in your posts, particularly your last one, is astounding. I'm pretty sure you have officially degraded this thread to the "useless" status.

Your interchangeable use of the tern "barfer" and "rawer" is the first indication of the level of ignorance you have on this subject. The B.A.R.F. diet and the Raw Meaty Bone (RMB) diet that most of the raw feeders here use, are completely different. If you took a little time to research these diets, you would understand that they are not interchangeable and that the health benefits of one does not necessarily come with the other.

Then you state, "I find it stupid and a waste of resources to use protein to cover energy needs...". Um, okay. Based on what? Have you ever seen a dog on kibble take a crap and then witnessed the same dog on RMBs do the same thing except that it produces a stool about 1/4th the size and only defecates about 30% as frequently as it did on kibble? Of course you haven't. You've never fed a dog RMBs! Most of what is in kibble goes in and goes straight back out of a dog. Most of what is in RMBs is used by the dog. This is what I mean when I say (paraphrased), "you have to see it to understand it". Don't knock it if you don't know.

You further reveal your ignorance by stating, "I know of people who have tried Raw or Barf or whatever and didn't saw any measurable differences...". Well, which was it, B.A.R.F. or RMB? There IS a difference and frankly, if your experience was through other people feeding B.A.R.F. or something similar, I'm not surprised that you came to this conclusion. To many of us, the food that "BARF'ers" feed is not much more than uncooked kibble. But to broadbrush all raw diets based on this particular diet is completely ignorant.

As far as some dogs not showing any interest in raw meat, you are correct. Some dogs have no idea what it is because they have been raised on commercial food since day-one. Ever go into a hard-core Chinese restaurant? Would you sit down and order just anything off the menu? I mean, I'm a pretty adventurous eater and I live in a culturally diverse area and I'm in a multi-cultural marriage but even I won't eat everything that is put in front of me in one of these restaurants. Is it because it's disgusting, or doesn't taste good? Nope, it's because it's unfamiliar to me. When I'm presented food that is foreign to me, I usually have to be introduced slowly to it, watch others eat it, have someone describe it to me, etc. before I'll take a bite. Does that make the food bad for me, or inappropriate?

Here's another example. I like to fish in cold, freshwater streams and lakes. Here in California many of these fisheries are stocked with farm-raised trout because most of the wild trout have been fished out. Farm-raised trout are raised on - you guessed it - kibble. Fish chow. Seriously, it looks like kitten kibble.

When I go fishing somewhere that has both wild and farm trout, I cast flies to catch wild trout, and bait to catch farm trout. The wild trout won't touch a blob of Power Bait, or Velveeta, or any man-made bait. The farm trout, on the other hand, have no idea what to do with anything that resembles natural, found-in-the-wild trout food (i.e. insects).

However, farm-raised trout that survive the first season after planting are called hold-overs and these fish either have to adapt to natural food or starve to death. So the next season, one can catch hold-overs using natural looking food because these fish have adapted to a natural diet and are acclimated to their wild food source. The older they get, the less likely you will catch one with man-made bait.

I have one dog, he's less than 20 lbs. BTW, who lived most of his puppyhood on the streets before the shelter picked him up and we adopted him. When we started taking walks I quickly realized that this poor little guy ate nothing but people food that was left behind, and bugs - mostly earthworms. Whenever we would go for a walk, he'd stop to check out every single Dorito bag, soda cup, hamburger wrapper, etc. that was lying along the sidewalk. And whenever he encountered a worm along the walk he'd stop to eat it. That was food to him so even kibble was foreign to him when we first brought him home. I had to trick him by putting it in an empty potato chip bag in the beginning because to him, that was what he associated with food.

When I finally gave up on kibble and switched both of my dogs to RMBs, my female took to it immediately. The male had no idea what to do with it. It was as foreign to him as kibble was in the beginning. That didn't make it bad, or inappropriate. If you ate stale potato chips and worms all your life, you wouldn't know what to so with it either. But there are some tricks we have to acclimate dogs like this to raw meat and bones and I used a couple of them and in a few days, he started to get it.

A few days later he connected with the canine instinct that was buried deep within and he now knows exactly what to do with his raw meaty bones. It's a beautiful thing seeing a little guy like him devour a chicken wing or pork rib as though he had been doing it all his life. And his health and vitality has never been better, something we were very worried about when we got him since he was very, very sick.

The bottom line is that just because a dog doesn't know what to do with RMBs in the beginning, doesn't mean the food is somehow inappropriate. Feed your kid Jello every day then after a couple years try to feed him a carrot. Good luck with that.

You can feed your dogs whatever you want. But don't come here and jump in a thread with no credentials and virtually no experience and tell us we have it all wrong. Anyone can go look at all the references you found on the Internet and make a case for your beliefs. But once you experience something like the RMB diet you will question all of the "convention wisdom" that is out there on the subject of canine nutrition. Until you have more personal experience with this subject though, maybe you should hang out here, read more, and write less. Perhaps you'll learn something.

[SubMariner]

Of course thats the case. But that's good. We need the pot stirred every once in a while. It adds excitement. Particularly from someone this easy. I have a feeling it's a ficticious personality of someone from the past.

Yes, RFD...methinks I smell a TROLL!

[BlueKnight]

I haven't disappeared, I just have other things going on in life. You seem like you're just trolling and I wish you weren't in my thread. I take this stuff seriously and although I haven't had the time to respond yet, I do read all the posts.

Yes, you are right, I'm sorry, I won't post anything more here. I'm sure you will learn a lot from these people that can even teach pandas what the right diet is for them in the wild

[jdatwood]

Yes, you are right, I'm sorry, I won't post anything more here. I'm sure you will learn a lot from these people that can even teach pandas what the right diet is for them in the wild

Typical

[harrkim120]

^^^ Haha...awesome!!!

[PUNKem733]

This guy should be banned. He's not even intelligently arguing and making sound points. He's just Spewing out garbage, and misinformation. He just wants people to get riled up, as I can't think of anyoneone with the slightest knowledge on dogs and carnivores to present themselves in this manner.