Confused! Please help! *FOOD*

[RCTRIPLEFRESH5]

The maned wolf is an anomaly just as the panda. Like the panda, it is a carnivore that lives on plant material. Just because it eats omnivore food does not make it an omnivore just as us feeding our dogs omnivore food doesn't make them omnivores.

why does the manned wolf eat veggies? if the manned wolf is a carniore living on omnivore diets, how do we know dogs couldnt do the same and thrive? whats the reaso nthe manned wolf doesnt eat all meat?

[spookychick13]

why does the manned wolf eat veggies? if the manned wolf is a carniore living on omnivore diets, how do we know dogs couldnt do the same and thrive? whats the reaso nthe manned wolf doesnt eat all meat?

Do we have a spell checker for posts? It's hard to follow what you're writing half the time.


Anyway, the Maned Wolf is just an odd creature in general. Look it up.
Endangered Species Report: Maned Wolf (Chrysocyon brachyurus)

It adapted eating habits and it's legs are weirdly long.

They're kinda cute though.

[RawFedDogs]

why does the manned wolf eat veggies? if the manned wolf is a carniore living on omnivore diets, how do we know dogs couldnt do the same and thrive? whats the reaso nthe manned wolf doesnt eat all meat?

First let's clear one misconception. A maned wolf is not really a wolf but a distant very cousin to a wolf. "The Maned Wolf is not closely related to any other living canid. It is apparently a survivor from the Pleistocene fauna of large South American mammals; its closest living relative is the Bush Dog (genus Speothos), with a more distant relationship to other South American canines (the Short-eared Dog, the Crab-eating Fox and the 'false foxes' or Pseudalopex)." Maned Wolf - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I would assume that the reason that the maned wolf doesn't eat all meat is the same reason that pandas eat mostly bamboo. When you find the answer to that, lets us all know as it's pretty much unknown by anybody. Its really not known how much vegetable matter that the maned wolf eats in the wild. It's all speculation.

Since the maned wolf is such a distant relative of wolves and dogs, I really don't know nor care much about them. The only reason I know anything at all is because this subject comes up from time to time in raw feeding discussions, basically in the same context as this discussion. About once a year or so, someone will bring it up.

[BlueKnight]

Well, the maned wolf came to the discussion because your theory is that the teeth of an animal correlate 100% with the food he eats. The maned wolf has a "carnivore dentition" but yet he is an omnivore. So why can't the dog be an omnivore too? Besides, dog selection has been made by man, not by nature, so man can select for or against any traits regardless of their "fitness".

[RawFedDogs]

Well, the maned wolf came to the discussion because your theory is that the teeth of an animal correlate 100% with the food he eats.

They correlate 100% with the food the animal SHOULD eat. Dog's teeth are designed to kill animals (caninne teeth), rip and tear meat and crunch bones (back teeth). No tooth in a dogs head is designed to crush cellulose around plant cells. A necessary component if one is to eat plant material. Dog's also don't have the enzymes necessary to break down plant material in the digestive process. You can feed an carnivore all the plant material you want to but you still can't make an omniovore out of him. You can't change his body to process plant material. All this was handled by nature millions of years ago and you can't change it in a few thousand years.

The maned wolf has a "carnivore dentition" but yet he is an omnivore.

A maned wolf is a carnivore. He SOMETIMES eats plant material just as a panda eats almost nothing but plant material but no one calls a panda an omnivore. They are carnivores also. No one knows why the anomalies exist. No one knows how much plant material a maned wolf eats in the wild. Probably not very much. Also don't forget that just because a maned wolf has "wolf" in his name doesn't make him one. He is NOT a wolf.

So why can't the dog be an omnivore too?

Because you can't feed a carnivore omniovre food and create an omnivore out of him. His teeth, stomach, intenstines, pancreas, and liver are not designed to eat or digest plant material. He can't derive nutrients from them.

Besides, dog selection has been made by man, not by nature, so man can select for or against any traits regardless of their "fitness".

Nothing in man's selective breeding of dogs changed anything in their digestive system. They have the same teeth, jaws, stomach, intestines, pancreas, and liver as a wild wolf. Every item in their digestive system is designed to eat nothing but meat, bones, and organs from any animal they can catch and kill. Nothing in their digestive system is designed to eat or digest plant material of any kind.

To sum up: Man can not create an omnivore by feeding a carnivore food that an omnivore was designed to eat. Nature just doesn't work that way.

ETA: I haven't seen any evidence that this animal actually derives nutrients from the plant material it eats just the same as dogs and wolves. There is no reason to believe they do. They should eat enough meat, bones, and organs for nutrients and eat plants for recreation.

[BlueKnight]

They correlate 100% with the food the animal SHOULD eat.

Really?! And if he doesn't in fact eat what he should eat (said by its teeth ...) he gets fulminated because of God's rage?

No tooth in a dogs head is designed to crush cellulose around plant cells. A necessary component if one is to eat plant material. Dog's also don't have the enzymes necessary to break down plant material in the digestive process. You can feed an carnivore all the plant material you want to but you still can't make an omniovore out of him. You can't change his body to process plant material. All this was handled by nature millions of years ago and you can't change it in a few thousand years.

Yeah, yeah, I have seen you parroting (as the initial poster said ...) this over and over, but this simply isn't true. Omnivores like pigs and men also don't have the necessary enzymes to breakdown cellulose. Does this mean that pigs and men are pure carnivores? Even cows (I think they are considered herbivores ...) don't have those enzymes, they have to rely on symbiosis with the rumen bacteria... Also, it's funny that digestibility of carbohydrates by the dog is close to 100%. I wonder how they can do that without those magic enzymes that allow to break down plant material (by the way, not all plant material is cellulose ...)

Because you can't feed a carnivore omniovre food and create an omnivore out of him. His teeth, stomach, intenstines, pancreas, and liver are not designed to eat or digest plant material. He can't derive nutrients from them.

This is veeeeery funny Of course, all the practical evidence says this is not true, no need to argue on this.

A maned wolf is a carnivore. He SOMETIMES eats plant material just as a panda eats almost nothing but plant material but no one calls a panda an omnivore.

Also very funny. You mix up the term "carnivore" derived from taxonomic stuff and "carnivore" from the point of view of feeding and just use it according to what suits you at the moment A panda may be taxonomically a carnivore but if he survives in the wild by eating plant material then he is an "herbivore" food wise.

Nothing in man's selective breeding of dogs changed anything in their digestive system. They have the same teeth, jaws, stomach, intestines, pancreas, and liver as a wild wolf. Every item in their digestive system is designed to eat nothing but meat, bones, and organs from any animal they can catch and kill.

Really? I'd really love to see a Chihuahua or a Pekingese killing prey, let alone being able to tear the skin of it
And is a Chihuahua the same as a Great Dane or a German Shephard?

[DaneMama]

^^^ So just curious...what do you think dogs should eat?

[RawFedDogs]

Really?! And if he doesn't in fact eat what he should eat (said by its teeth ...) he gets fulminated because of God's rage?

Thats just a smarta$$ answer and shows how much you know about the subject.

Yeah, yeah, I have seen you parroting (as the initial poster said ...) this over and over, but this simply isn't true.

You don't see me "parroting" anything. You see me quoting facts and often I have to quote the repeatedly bacause new people are arriving every day and then there are those who can't see the forrest for the trees. The main enzyme to digest carbs is amallyse. It is contained in human salava as digestion with humans begins in the mouth. The pancreas also secretes amylase to digest food as it passes through the digestive system.

Omnivores like pigs and men also don't have the necessary enzymes to breakdown cellulose.

Yes, this is true, however humans have the dentation and jaw structure to crush the cellulose cover that surrrounds every plant cell. Without being able to break through this structure, extracting nutrients from the plant cell is impossible. The undigested cellulose covering that is broken through while chewing becomes fiber which pushes the "stuff" throuth the intestines.

Does this mean that pigs and men are pure carnivores?

Unfortunately I am not an expert on pigs and don't even know what they are classified as. Humans, of course, are omnivores because of dentation, jaw structure and length and style of intestinal tract.

Even cows (I think they are considered herbivores ...) don't have those enzymes, they have to rely on symbiosis with the rumen bacteria...

Cows don't belong in this conversation because their digestive system is entirely different from dogs or humans or pigs.

Also, it's funny that digestibility of carbohydrates by the dog is close to 100%. I wonder how they can do that without those magic enzymes that allow to break down plant material (by the way, not all plant material is cellulose ...)

Well now you are blowing up smoke and mirrors. So far this discussion has been about cellulose. Now you throw in carbs. Carbs are sugar. Something entirely different than cellulose. You are correct that all plant material is not cellulose BUT .... EVERY cell in a plant has a protective coating of cellulose covering it. You can't derive nutrients from any plant cell without somehow getting through the cellulose covering. Humans and other omnivores do this with chewing with flat teeth and horizontal as well as vertical movement of the lower jaw during chewing. Don't just aren't equipped to do that.

This is veeeeery funny Of course, all the practical evidence says this is not true, no need to argue on this.

I had to go back and see what you were talking about. Yes, there is reason to argue. There is no evidence or even a study that can prove that a dog derives any nutrition from fresh whole raw plant matter. Highly proccessed? He might get some little bit of nutrients from highly processed plant matter but this is entirely unnatural and unnecessary and undesirable.

Also very funny. You mix up the term "carnivore" derived from taxonomic stuff and "carnivore" from the point of view of feeding and just use it according to what suits you at the moment A panda may be taxonomically a carnivore but if he survives in the wild by eating plant material then he is an "herbivore" food wise.

The funny thing is that you go against all science by trying to classify something not by the physical makeup of his body but by what he happens to put in his mouth. Isn't that just silly? The thing about pandas is that yes, they eat inappropriately. No one knows why but because they do, they must eat for about 20 hours a day just in order to survive. If he were to eat like other carnivores, he could problably eat every few days and thrive.

Really? I'd really love to see a Chihuahua or a Pekingese killing prey, let alone being able to tear the skin of it

My cats who are about the size of these little dogs kill prey every day. One night they killed a rabbit, drug him into the bathroom. Killed him by beating him against the wall. Ate the whole thing except for stomach and intestines. They regularly kill and eat rats, mice, squirrels, vols, chipmonks, and birds.

And is a Chihuahua the same as a Great Dane or a German Shephard?

Are you going to go so far as to tell me they are different species? Surely not!

I like you. You are fun.

[BlueKnight]

Well now you are blowing up smoke and mirrors. So far this discussion has been about cellulose.

Really? I read "plant material" Pity ...

I had to go back and see what you were talking about. Yes, there is reason to argue. There is no evidence or even a study that can prove that a dog derives any nutrition from fresh whole raw plant matter. Highly proccessed? He might get some little bit of nutrients from highly processed plant matter but this is entirely unnatural and unnecessary and undesirable.

Don't you give fruits to your dogs? I do (well, sometimes they steal them ...), and I don't don't recover them intact on the other side, so certainly something has stayed inside. As to processing, what's the wrong with thay? Really, I'd like to see applying THAT theory to what YOU eat. It would be funny seeing you spending 20 h a day chewing raw cereals

The funny thing is that you go against all science by trying to classify something not by the physical makeup of his body but by what he happens to put in his mouth. Isn't that just silly?

Well, I don't see the "funniness" about classifying food regimes (or other things ...). If the definition of "herbivore" is "animal that eats plants", really I don't get what's the problem with that ...

The thing about pandas is that yes, they eat inappropriately. No one knows why but because they do, they must eat for about 20 hours a day just in order to survive. If he were to eat like other carnivores, he could problably eat every few days and thrive.

Well, this is one of the most hilarious things I have ever read!!! Now, besides saying to others what they should feed their dogs, you are saying that Nature is wrong and telling that YOUR reasoning is better?

My cats who are about the size of these little dogs kill prey every day. One night they killed a rabbit, drug him into the bathroom. Killed him by beating him against the wall. Ate the whole thing except for stomach and intestines. They regularly kill and eat rats, mice, squirrels, vols, chipmonks, and birds.

You like to confuse things, ha? I was talking about dogs, not cats. Besides, since you adore looking at the teeth, compare the teeth of your cat with the teeth of a Pekingese (I will refrain of telling you to make the experience of throwing a cat and a Pekingese out of a window to see what happens when they fall...)

Are you going to go so far as to tell me they are different species? Surely not!

No, they aren't different species, but they are different breeds, with different anatomies and different needs. If comparing dogs of diffrent breeds is silly, comparing dogs and wolves is completely foolish.

I like you. You are fun.

Lucky you I find you boring, as most Barfers are. You all sound like a religious mob that has seen the light (Praise the Lord!), always trying to convert others and make them escape from the eternal darkness of their current lifes. By the way, I think you are one of the owners of this Forum, right? Can you explain me what's the purpose of this sub-forum? Because, according to you, there are only 2 ingredients to discuss: meat and bones

[PUNKem733]

It's funny to see people talk out of their ass. To think there are people who thinks dogs would thrive on plant based material....LOL