backed by scientific study??

[Broken]

I'm not sure exactly why there are so many allegations of aggressive behaviour being thrown around in this topic.

From the perspective of a new member of this forum, this topic contains interesting discussion and opinions. Regardless of whether I agree with them or not, they are presented in a logical and respectful manner.

A discussion board where everyone is spouting rainbows, puppies and rolling out the "you're totally right!" carpet might seem like a more welcoming ideal, but it doesn't provide useful info. It seems that some people are looking for a pat on the back to make themselves feel better about their pet's diet, rather than to engage in an exchange of opinions.

Ultimately, I am interested in the welfare of my dog. A forum in which people actually discuss and debate the merits of a food (and the contents of said food) is far more useful to me than one in which people engage in collective backslapping. Frankly, I value my dog's health far more than my ego. All of the posts in this thread have addressed a point, and not attacked a specific poster.

[CorgiPaws]

I'm not sure exactly why there are so many allegations of aggressive behaviour being thrown around in this topic.

From the perspective of a new member of this forum, this topic contains interesting discussion and opinions. Regardless of whether I agree with them or not, they are presented in a logical and respectful manner.

A discussion board where everyone is spouting rainbows, puppies and rolling out the "you're totally right!" carpet might seem like a more welcoming ideal, but it doesn't provide useful info. It seems that some people are looking for a pat on the back to make themselves feel better about their pet's diet, rather than to engage in an exchange of opinions.

Ultimately, I am interested in the welfare of my dog. A forum in which people actually discuss and debate the merits of a food (and the contents of said food) is far more useful to me than one in which people engage in collective backslapping. Frankly, I value my dog's health far more than my ego. All of the posts in this thread have addressed a point, and not attacked a specific poster.

As much as you're not concerned with yout ego:
You're totally right, way to go! *insert pat on the back here*

[SubMariner]

Click on the link below. Its a great article about canine genetics that covers all topics. The one that I want to use for this discussion is based on Figure 10, page 14. Look at the picture and read the caption (I recommend reading the WHOLE article, but it is very fact dense). Based on these results from genetic study link dogs and wolves as more closely related than any other canid species out there. To me, this is conclusive research into what and why I feed my dogs a prey model raw diet, because a PMR diet is what closely tries to imitate what their wild counterpart consumes.

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal...ature04338.pdf

I started to read the study, but unfortunately had to quit due to the intense numbing sensation I was getting in my eyes trying get through all the polysyllabic babble.

Oh, it STARTED off well...

[DaneMama]

I did say that it was fact dense and hard to read

I generally only read the introduction, summary and conclusion types of scientific articles like this. You really do have to read, reread, reread, go and take a break, and reread it once more to get anything from the data/analysis section of these papers. I have had experience with reading things like this for school but I am way out of practice.

Did you at least see the part that I was referring to? That was the point that I wanted people to see where I am coming from...this study proves it well enough.

[SubMariner]

I did say that it was fact dense and hard to read

I generally only read the introduction, summary and conclusion types of scientific articles like this. You really do have to read, reread, reread, go and take a break, and reread it once more to get anything from the data/analysis section of these papers. I have had experience with reading things like this for school but I am way out of practice.

Did you at least see the part that I was referring to? That was the point that I wanted people to see where I am coming from...this study proves it well enough.

Although I've had experience reading that type of paper (i.e. nitrogen loading, tissue half times, decompression theory, blah, blah, blah) this one was filled with technobabble so dense that it's impossible to determine exactly WHAT it's trying to say without a firm background in that science. Which I obviously do not have.

So I'm unable to agree or disagree whether or not it proves your point.

[Orange]

.............

[DaneMama]

Although I've had experience reading that type of paper (i.e. nitrogen loading, tissue half times, decompression theory, blah, blah, blah) this one was filled with technobabble so dense that it's impossible to determine exactly WHAT it's trying to say without a firm background in that science. Which I obviously do not have.

So I'm unable to agree or disagree whether or not it proves your point.

If you refer back to the post where I first mentioned this article, you will see that the part I wanted people to look at was a figure/diagram. Figure 10 to be exact if you want to go back and look at it. It's on page 14, I just mentioned that it was a good article to read but it's very fact dense. You will probably be able to agree or disagree with me by looking at the picture.

[RawFedDogs]

If you refer back to the post where I first mentioned this article, you will see that the part I wanted people to look at was a figure/diagram. Figure 10 to be exact if you want to go back and look at it. It's on page 14, I just mentioned that it was a good article to read but it's very fact dense. You will probably be able to agree or disagree with me by looking at the picture.

Great!! I love looking at pictures and don't have to read words.

[jiml]

Dogs are carnivores and need only meat, bones, and organs. Nothing more.>>>>


while that is true a dog is a non obligate carnivore who's diet consists PRIMARILY of meat but can survive without unlike a cat. wolves in the southern hem eat up to 40% fruits and grasses during the summer. NA timberwolves eat a greater percentage of meat. The evolution into dogs in the last 14000 yrs occurred w dogs varying there diet becoming opportunist and scavengers around humans.
All that said Id rather a kibble not be primarily corn. they can eat a varied diet and do well if not thrive (no more evidence of this is nec than the # of dogs that do well on crap dog food). but no one should convince themselves that this is best or that dogs are cows.

[RawFedDogs]

Dogs are carnivores and need only meat, bones, and organs. Nothing more.>>>>


while that is true a dog is a non obligate carnivore who's diet consists PRIMARILY of meat but can survive without unlike a cat.

Anytime I see this statement, and I see it from time to time, I know the person who is making the statement is going to try to convince me that a dog is not a carnivore.

wolves in the southern hem eat up to 40% fruits and grasses during the summer.

You are talking about the mained wolf who is a wolf in name only and not very closely related to the gray wolf, the forefathers of our dogs. The mained wolf is way off on a branch all by himself in the tree of life.

NA timberwolves eat a greater percentage of meat.

Yeah, something like 98% or better.

The evolution into dogs in the last 14000 yrs occurred w dogs varying there diet becoming opportunist and scavengers around humans.

Dogs in their domesticated life have eaten what they had to to survive and still do. You can't feed a carnivore plant material and make an omnivore out of him. He is still a carnivore. I would eat tree bark if it was all I could eat to survive.

All that said Id rather a kibble not be primarily corn. they can eat a varied diet and do well if not thrive (no more evidence of this is nec than the # of dogs that do well on crap dog food). but no one should convince themselves that this is best or that dogs are cows.

I think the greatest percentage of us who actually feed our dogs a carnivore diet will argue that dogs do not thrive on any type of omnivore food. You have to actually feed carnivore food exclusively for a period of time to witness this phenomenon.

There are physical characteristics that make a dog a carnivore and prevent him from being an omnivore.

ETA: Welcome to the board.