meat meal?

[Unosmom]

I got this article in the mail from Halo:

Why Doesn't Halo Use Chicken Meal?

whats interesting though is that they have supplied an FDA link below which states:

The weights of ingredients are determined as they are added in the formulation, including their inherent water content. This latter fact is important when evaluating relative quantity claims, especially when ingredients of different moisture contents are compared.

For example, one pet food may list "meat" as its first ingredient, and "corn" as its second. The manufacturer doesn't hesitate to point out that its competitor lists "corn" first ("meat meal" is second), suggesting the competitor's product has less animal-source protein than its own. However, meat is very high in moisture (approximately 75% water). On the other hand, water and fat are removed from meat meal, so it is only 10% moisture (what's left is mostly protein and minerals). If we could compare both products on a dry matter basis (mathematically "remove" the water from both ingredients), one could see that the second product had more animal-source protein from meat meal than the first product had from meat, even though the ingredient list suggests otherwise.

so this is their food:

Chicken, Eggs, Pea Protein, Oats, Vegetable Broth, Pearled Barley, Chicken Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), Whole Peas, Chicken Liver, Salmon, Flax Seed, Salmon Oil (preserved with mixed tocopherols), Pea Fiber, Sweet Potatoes, Apples, Blueberries, Green Beans, Carrots, Cranberries, Zucchini, Alfalfa, Inulin, Calcium Sulfate, Potassium Chloride, Taurine, Salt, Vitamins (Folic Acid, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Choline Bitartrate, Niacin, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Ascorbic Acid, Riboflavin Supplement, Thiamine Mononitrate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Biotin), Minerals (Zinc Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Cobalt Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite), Lactobacillus acidophilus, Bifidobacterium longum, Enterococcus faecium, Lactobacillus plantarum.

Does it mean then that most of the protein comes from eggs and pea protein and not chicken since its exclusive of water.

I actually think they're trying to make their food sounds better then it is, but hiding behind the chicken, when in fact majority of the protein comes from pea protein, which is the same as pea meal.

[DaneMama]

That is exactly what they are doing unfortunately. The ingredients in dog food are listed by their weight PRIOR to processing. So chicken weighs the most because of the water content, but after processing all the water is taken out placing it much further down the list. Its an easy way for companies to get the best of people who don't know how it really works. The bags of dog food are supposed to say that the ingredients are listed by weight before processing, but its usually in microscopic print in an obscure place

[rannmiller]

Haha there's no meat meal in that food at all!

[Unosmom]

I know the whole thing is a joke. Its like saying whey protein is bad because its a byproduct of a cheese manufacturing, no it doesent sound pretty, but its the most popular source of protein among atheletes.

[Unosmom]

Whats funny is that theyre coconspiring with Pet promise which has horrible ingridients as the only foods that do not have meat meals in them.

What about Iams, purina, science diet? all those have a chicken as a first ingridient and no specified meat meals.

[allisonglass123456]

You say that Halo has no meal like that is a bad thing.

1. Dogs never ate kibble until after WWII. They were healthier then eating our scrapes.
2. Do you really know what is in meat & bone meal?

You should read this article "In a September, 1995 article titled What's Cooking , Baltimore City Paper takes their readers through Valley Proteins, Baltimore's only rendering plant with very graphic pictures of dead animals stuffed into barrels, one picture shows a dead dog ; another is of fried animal parts! Neil Gagnon, general manager of Valley Proteins says that 150 million pounds of rotting flesh are fed into the plants grinders and cookers each year to produce 80 million pounds of the plants three products; meat and bone meal, tallow and yellow grease. Most goes into chicken feed, the rest into dry pet food." at

http://vonhapsburg.homestead.com/petfood.html

Feeding your dog ONLY dry kibble is terrible. I'll say it!

Dry kibble was created by BIG BUSINESS. The same people who make your twinkies, sodas, etc who obviously care more about your $ than your health. Read the article from Balt. City Paper & you can see big business is making $ from waste products.

Learn what's really in dog food:
Good dog food sites

http://www.truthaboutpetfood.com

petfood

Ethoxyquin in Pet Foods

The Dog Food Project - Ingredients to avoid

Pet Food Ingredients

Pet Food information, manufacturers, products, ingredients, cat, dog, pet food.

I always feed my dogs freeze dried dog food or Halo kibble WITH Premium wet dog food or chicken soup w/ veggies & brown rice. I also give them organic free range hormone free eggs, human grade fish oil, & human grade joint supplements.

[RawFedDogs]

I always feed my dogs freeze dried dog food or Halo kibble WITH Premium wet dog food or chicken soup w/ veggies & brown rice. I also give them organic free range hormone free eggs, human grade fish oil, & human grade joint supplements.

Dang!! As I'm reading this post, I'm thinking, "This person has figured things out" only to find in the last sentence she still feeds her dog commercial dog food. She doesn't quite have it figured out, yet, but maybe real soon it will finally hit her.

[SubMariner]

Dang!! As I'm reading this post, I'm thinking, "This person has figured things out" only to find in the last sentence she still feeds her dog commercial dog food. She doesn't quite have it figured out, yet, but maybe real soon it will finally hit her.

I don't think it's ethical to have an exclusively Raw Feeding forum where you can talk about raw feeding to your heart's content (Raw Feeding - Dog Food Forum) only to come into other areas like this one and insinuate that those of us who have chosen not to feed raw are wrong, ignorant, bad pet owners, etc.

Sometimes there is a true feeling of community here. The way that people help each other out here is commendable. The way they snipe at you if you aren't part of the RF club is not.

[Unosmom]

allisonglass123456- you need to get your facts straight.

Unspecified meat meal ( poulty meal, meat and bone meal) means the manufacturer can use various sources chicken, turkey and in some cases euthanized animals.

SPECIFIED MEAT MEAL( chicken meal, lamb meal, etc)- is muscle meat with moisture and fat boiled out of it, which leaves behind dry concentrated protein and if you feed kibble, it should make up the bulk of it.
Why? because if chicken is listed as the first ingridient, its not a true first ingridient since the water is removed and its moved down the list, so the true ingridient becomes whatever grain or carb that follows, in case of HALO its pea protein.

Good quality kibble should have a named meat first (ex. chicken) followed by a named meat meal ( ex. Chicken meal).

If you buy from a reputable company ( innova,wellness, natures variety, orijen, etc), the meat is inspected and is passed to be suitable for human consumption. In fact you can go to their factory tour to see how the food is made.

My original post is to make people see how misleading Halo makes their product to be, truly chicken is not the first ingridient on the list, but pea protein is, and unless your dog is a turtle, then I'd pick something that is meat based.

If you've actually looked at those links, you'd see my point exactly. One of the most reputable sources the dog food project:

The Dog Food Project - Identifying better products

What to look for:
►Specifically named meats and meat meals such as chicken, chicken meal, turkey, turkey meal, lamb, lamb meal, duck, duck meal, beef, beef meal, eggs and so on.
►The following are lesser quality ingredients and are not found in truly high quality products, but may be present in smaller amounts (not as the main protein ingredients) in "mid range" foods: fresh byproducts indicating a specific species (e.g. beef/chicken/turkey/lamb byproducts), corn gluten, corn gluten meal.Products that include these as main ingredients should be avoided.

What to avoid:
►All generic meat ingredients that do not indicate a species (meat, meat byproducts, meat byproduct meal, meat meal, meat & bone meal, blood meal, fish, fish meal, poultry, poultry byproducts, poultry meal, poultry byproduct meal, liver, liver meal, glandular meal etc.)

►Byproduct meals, even if a species is identified (chicken/beef/turkey/lamb byproduct meal etc.), since highly questionable ingredients may be used in these rendered products.
►Any food that contains corn (ground or otherwise) as a first ingredient, especially if corn gluten meal is also a main ingredient and no concentrated source of identified meat protein (e.g. chicken meal, lamb meal etc.) is present.
► Corn gluten or soy(bean) meal as main ingredients. Note: Not all dogs tolerate soy products! Small amounts, especially of organic soy, are okay as long as a dog is not sensitive. There are only very few products on the market that include high quality soy ingredients, none of them sold at grocery stores or mass retailers.

Contrary to what many people believe, meat sources in "meal" form (as long as they are from a specified type of animal, such as chicken meal, lamb meal, salmon meal etc.) are not inferior to whole, fresh meats. Meals consist of meat and skin, with or without the bones, but exclusive of feathers/hair, heads, feet, horns, entrails etc. and have the ... Read Moreproper calcium/phosphorus ratio required for a balanced diet. They have had most of the moisture removed, but meats in their original, "wet" form still contain up to 75% water. Once the food reaches its final moisture content of about 9-12%, the meat will have shrunk to sometimes as little as 1/4 of the original amount, while the already dehydrated meal form remains the same and you get more concentrated protein per pound of finished product. This means that in the worst case you are left with only 4 ounces of actual meat content per pound of fresh meat included in a dry kibble, many of which contain less than one pound of meat per 2-3 pounds of grain to begin with. Preferably a food contains quality meat meal as well as some fresh meat

I think the main confustion comes from the fact that they use generalized " meat meal" which can be anything, on the other hand if its specified meal like chicken meal, its fine.

[RawFedDogs]

If you buy from a reputable company ( innova,wellness, natures variety, orijen, etc), the meat is inspected and is passed to be suitable for human consumption. In fact you can go to their factory tour to see how the food is made.

Unosmom, you made a very good and informative post ... with one exception which I have quoted above. Meat in dog foods is not inspected by anyone. It is refuse from human food processing plants and garbage from grocery stores and restaurants. The food my have been inspected at one time when it was in those plants but as soon as it's loaded on the truck going to the renedering plant it is no longer human grade. It is usually been kept in unrefigerated bins and then shipped in unrefigerated trucks to the rendering plant. It bears no resemblance to food you would find in a grocery store or restaurant. This is true of all kibbles regardless of the company of manufacture. Rendering plants just don't get good meat. It's not what they do.